WebGUI irc logs from: 2007-03.log

--- Log opened Thu Mar 01 00:00:52 2007
+perlDreamerI could use a little help with a debug.  Is there someone in channel with IE7 and willing to help?00:01
@rizeni don't have IE 7, but i'm willing to help00:10
@rizeni can download it, but i have to leave in 10 minutes..so it will have to wait until either really late tonight or tomorrow00:10
pjesiwhy do you need ie7?00:11
+perlDreamerI was demo'ing WebGUI to a potential customer this morning with IE7 and the demo site was completely broken.00:12
+perlDreamerIt works fine with Mozilla.00:12
+perlDreamerSo I'd like a double check before submitting a bug00:12
@rizensteve and frank told me they went through all of webgui and fixed everything ie7 related00:13
pjesisubmit the bug to microsoft00:13
+perlDreamerpjesi: that's funny00:13
pjesiwell it is their product that is broken00:13
+perlDreamerrizen: I think there are open IE7 bugs on the board00:13
pjesiperlDreamer: is it specific to the demo template?00:14
+perlDreamerpjesi: I don't know00:14
+perlDreamerI beat a hasty retreat, blamed it on release day, and scheduled another meeting next week.00:15
pjesiI have always made sure firefox is available on the presentation computer on meetings00:17
+perlDreamerIt was a spur of the moment thing.00:17
@preactionperlDreamer: what about the demo site is broken in IE7?00:17
+perlDreamerI created a demo site and tried to login as admin.00:18
+perlDreamerIt kicked me back to the demo create screen.00:18
@preactionk, i just tried that and it worked00:18
@preactionmight've been a release thing, when did you do it?00:18
+perlDreamer8:45am PST00:19
@preactionso 11:45a roy's time00:19
+perlDreamerrizen: I was thinking of the IE6 and "IE and Firefox" bugs.  IE7 is clean on the boards00:19
+perlDreamerpreaction: yup00:19
@preactionyou might've been doing it while the demo sites were being updated00:20
+perlDreamerI'll bring my laptop to the next one, just in case.00:22
@preactionis the empty style supposed to include <html> and the proper head tags?01:01
+perlDreamerI remember coming across that during testing.01:05
+perlDreamerlet me check01:05
@preactionit doesn't, but is it supposed to?01:05
@preactioni'm thinking no, that you use the empty style when you generate the entire html doc yourself (or RSS, or otherwise)01:06
+perlDreameror when embedding in javascript windows, ala FormHelpers01:06
+perlDreamerHave you seen the bug about groupIdEventEdit?01:10
+perlDreamerI think it's actually an opinion.  What do you think?01:11
@preactionhaven't seen it01:12
@preactionactually, groupIdEventEdit was set to the groupIdEdit of the Calendar01:13
@preactionthey can change it. that's the idea01:13
+perlDreamerthe bug is that it was set to 3 instead of groupIdEdit01:14
@preactionwait, it's groupIdEventEdit that got changed?01:14
@preactionohhh, it's from the 7.2.3-7.3.0 upgrade01:15
+perlDreamerbug already fixed?01:15
@preactionno, i believe that it is explicitly set to "3", let me check01:16
@preactionlooks like it isn't explicitly set to anything, but defaults to "3"01:17
+perlDreamersidenote: I added a test to Style.t that explicitly checks for html, head and body tags in the empty style template.01:18
@preactionone-line fix: $properties->{groupIdEventEdit} = $properties->{groupIdEdit}; # line 238 of docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.2.3-7.3.0.pl01:18
+perlDreamernow it will be guaranteed to let us know it changes.01:18
+perlDreamerI'll commit the fix and try to run an upgrade.01:18
@preactionso it succeeds when there ISNT right? because i think i use the empty style on a bunch of ajax stuff that returns JSON01:18
+perlDreamerunlike($styled, qr{(?i)</?(html|head|body)>}, 'useEmptyStyle does not have html, head or body tags');01:19
+perlDreamerit's a pretty simplistic check, but it gets the idea across01:19
@preactioni did a lot of that sort of checking with the output of getPage01:20
@preactionthough i do think in the future we should make a nice getPageAsHTMLTokeParser (or something similar) that returns a proper HTML parsing object01:20
+perlDreamerI noticed that you used the same IO tied variable thing that I did.  It doesn't work before perl 5.8, though01:21
@preactionbut webgui requires 5.801:21
@preactionbefore 5.8 you can use the IO::String (i think, or IO::Scalar, one or the other)01:21
+perlDreamerwhere does it say that we require 5.8?  That's new to me.01:21
+perlDreamerI like it, but I was working under the assumption people would still use earlier perl's01:22
@preactionhttp://www.plainblack.com/installing_webgui <- maybe testEnvironment.pl should "require v5.8.8"01:22
+perlDreameryour 1-line fix, is that modifying an existing line or adding a line?01:24
@preactionadding a line01:24
@preactionshould be right under a couple other $properties changes01:24
@preactioner, crap01:25
@preactionno, wait, that'll work01:25
+perlDreamerI'll download and install a 7.2 and then try an upgrade.01:25
+perlDreamerI think it will work,too, but I've been bitten too many times recently to not test anymore.01:26
@preactiontrue nuff01:26
+perlDreamerdude, you did the world a service by rewriting the calendar01:42
+perlDreamerum, preaction, will it upgrade calendar with no events?01:50
@preactionit should02:06
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pjesidamn head.block02:18
+perlDreamerpjesi, if you can build a test for it that shows it's a bug, I'll fix it02:20
pjesiperlDreamer: it is so nondeterministic02:21
pjesiI cant figure it out02:21
+perlDreamerso it's working sometimes, in some cases, but not in others?02:22
pjesilast time it didnt show at all, yesterday it was twice within <head/>, today it was once in <head> and once in <body>, later it was correctly only in <head>, now it is only in body02:24
@preactionsame asset? which asset type? a page layout (if so, what assets does it contain?)02:25
pjesiit contains a whole site02:26
pjesisorry, it is the head block of the Layout template02:27
@preactioni'm just saying, there are a lot of ways to put head tags up there, and there's one correct way. some of the assets in the Layout might be putting things up there in the wrong way02:27
+perlDreamerpreaction: I think he's saying he has a headblock for the layout template, and that info (not any child info) is showing up all over the place, twice or not at all02:28
@preactionso in the Extra Head Tags part of the layout template, which should be put in the <tmpl_var head.tags> area that's handled by the style template?02:29
pjesisometimes the child info is displayed as well (rss link for example)02:30
pjesiyes <tmpl_var head.tags> is in the Style02:30
pjesiit sometimes prints them there02:31
pjesisometimes above the normal block02:31
pjesianyways, I managed to push Hinrik into fixing this02:32
pjesiabove normal block is at the top of <tmpl_var body.content>02:41
+perlDreamerpreaction: I figured out what was going on with the upgrade.  I short-circuited it and it broke the upgrade process quietly.02:44
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pjesiit does look like it is injected in head.tags if I am not loged in03:10
SDuensinWHOO HOO!   My photo gallery is (mostly) working!03:22
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SDuensinAnybody awake?  I may be on the verge of a wiki article here.03:39
streamlinesI'm here, but likely to be of much use to you.03:43
SDuensinNever know.  I just need the name of a template variable.  Can't seem to find it...03:44
SDuensinI uploaded a file and changed the menu title field.  When I use file.menuTitle, it's blank...03:44
SDuensinIf I use menuTitle by itself, I get the title of the folder the file is in.03:44
SDuensinI want to get the menuTitle of the file from inside a template for the parent folder.  (This is for a photo gallery.)03:45
SDuensinMake sense?03:45
streamlinesSorry, SDuensin, I'm just getting into WG, still readning literature and figuring stuff out. WQish I could be more helpful.03:45
SDuensinMe too.  :-)03:45
SDuensinWebGUI rocks.  It's just big.  Takes awhile to find everything.03:46
streamlinesyup. I'm a tech, and knowenough perl, but yeah, WebGUI is BIG/03:46
SDuensin"Enough Perl" == "Live Bomb"   :-)03:47
streamlinesthat's exactly right. enuff to cause MAJOR issues. just another hacker. 03:48
streamlineshow long you been using WG?03:48
SDuensinI'm getting back into it.  I used the 5.x series for a lot of sites.  Had issues with 6.x and my server.  Now I'm back.  :-D03:49
streamlineswow. where'd you go?03:49
SDuensinLet me tell you...  7.x is a LOT different from 5.x.  Very impressive.03:49
streamlinesso you coming back from PHPland?03:50
@preactionSDuensin: it's possible the Image asset doesn't have a menuTitle for some reason. you might want to also try title03:50
SDuensinI've run a lot of other content systems since then.  Never happy with any of them.03:50
SDuensinpreaction - Isn't file.title the filename?03:50
streamlinesany perl-based?03:50
@preactiondurned if i know, haven't been inside the Image asset yet03:50
SDuensinNo, streamlines.  Perl was the problem.  My host didn't have hardly any modules installed and my personal server didn't have the bandwidth I needed.03:51
SDuensinpreaction - Let me commit my version and show you what I have.  I think you'll like it.03:51
@preactionPerl is too awesome for its own good03:51
SDuensinpreaction (and streamlines) - take a peek:  http://new.duensing.com:2080/home/gallery/rylee/snow03:51
streamlinesahhh....so did you eventuall change hosts? I wonder how many others have that issue a a block to using WG?03:51
SDuensinNew host, and more bandwidth on my personal connection.  I can run from either of them now.03:52
@preactionthe little loading bar thingy doesn't like me :(03:53
@preactioni click an image, and the loading bar shows up, but the image doesn't seem to load03:53
SDuensinWhat browser?03:54
streamlinesI've gotta hop a firewall to get to see port  2080 too. That may be why.03:54
@preactionFirefox Intel Mac03:54
streamlinesthat's why I still dont see anything :-). I'll fix mine.03:54
SDuensinWell, hell, that's what I have.  :-)03:54
SDuensinDo you see the coat-of-arms above the menu?  (Coat-of-arms == shield thing.)03:54
@preactioni see the coat of arms, but no menu03:55
@preactioni'm also a Visitor03:55
@preactionthat might be the problem03:55
SDuensinCrap.  Menu fixed.03:55
SDuensinFor some bizarre reason, it was set to "Ad Managers".03:56
@preactionthat happens when it's not set03:56
SDuensinI bet I got a lot more screwed up then.03:57
@preactionoh: to make the rows have a uniform height: surround them in a div that has a height of the maximum height of your thumbnails03:57
SDuensinYea.  Any way to pull that from a variable?03:58
@preactionthe clicking works, it just took longer than i anticipated03:58
@preactionumm.... not that i'm aware of03:59
SDuensinMaybe my pipe is clogged.  Dang users!03:59
@preactionsomeone's clogging the intertubes?03:59
streamlineshmm...same problem on my end. Image 10 of 16 works though. odd. I 03:59
streamlinesnoticed some did and some didn't (some == atleast one). c03:59
* SDuensin blames his LAN.04:00
streamlinesclicked around more and no others workd.04:00
SDuensinOnly 10 worked?04:00
streamlinesdidn't click all thumbs thoh.04:00
SDuensinNothing different about 10.04:00
@preactioni got number 904:00
streamlinesnumber 10 of 16. popped up the thingy where you can click next to nav to others.04:01
streamlinesAh. so maybe his pipe really is clogged. 04:01
streamlinesbu nav to tohers from the thingy (next / prev) didnt work either. 04:01
SDuensinSounds like clogged pipes.04:02
@preactioni assume tey work, just slowly04:02
@preactionis the thumbnail size a site setting?04:02
@preactionimma try to make a patch04:02
SDuensinFor that test gallery, I didn't size those images at all.  They're around 2 megapixel and the script scales 'em.04:02
SDuensinI think it's a site setting.04:02
SDuensinYes.  Admin->Settings->Content04:03
@preactionbut it can, unfortunately, be overridden per image04:04
SDuensinYea.  I know.04:04
streamlinesyou trust a script to resize on the fly? what processor---oh yseah, macintel. nevermind04:04
SDuensinI don't trust it.  I just know it does it.  When this site goes live, I'll scale them myself.04:05
@preactionit's probably just setting a width/height in the CSS04:05
SDuensinThat's my guess, preaction.04:05
streamlinesah.. .sorr. maybe some loop in the resize script? preaction got 9 and I got 10 ok? still having trouble loading any others.04:05
@preactionthey just take 30 seconds about04:06
streamlinespreaction, you getting em all now?04:06
@preactioni'm up to 1104:06
streamlinesoohhh. sorry. I need to keep quiet.  and look at my other monotors every now and again. sorry again. Loading fine as you said. 04:07
streamlines(slink, slink). lurk  lurk.04:08
streamlinesI'll just go read my BRAND NEW wegui primer book. Amazing how much isn't obvious.04:09
SDuensinLooks like a variable won't help anyway.  You can't add in a template thingie, so there's no way to include the margin.04:09
SDuensinI didn't buy the primer.  Got the subscription to the docs.04:09
streamlinesyeah, got that too. we should wiki article....04:10
SDuensinI want to wiki this gallery after I get it sorted out.04:11
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streamlinesI haven't had time to get the BIG picture from the subscription. All is still a bit fuzzy to me. BEst thing in to dive in and test and hack. 04:13
streamlinesThen feel fuzzy enough to share via wiki.04:13
SDuensinWhoa.  I have a template I can't edit.  Every time I click "Edit" it acts like I did "View".04:18
SDuensinGrrr.  Tried all I can think of.  Restarting WebGUI now.  Hope that fixes it!04:24
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SDuensinThat fixed it.  Weird.04:28
SDuensinOk, just need to find that template variable for the menuTitle.04:33
SDuensinAnybody?  Anybody?  Buelher?04:40
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@preactionSDuensin: i think menuTitle is a Wobject property, and Image is only an Asset04:58
SDuensinThat hurts my head.04:58
SDuensinWhy does it have a field for it then?04:58
@preactionnm, menuTitle is in Asset04:59
@preactionperhaps it's getting clobbered somehow?04:59
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SDuensinI have no idea.  It's inside a loop.05:01
Radix-wrkSo were PedersenMJ and my entries the only ones for the wcc - haven't seen any additions to the wiki at all :(05:37
SDuensinI didn't have time to write my photo gallery entry.   :-(05:38
@preactionRadix-wrk: there's still 2 hours 20 minutes in the month of February ;)05:40
Radix-wrkDepends what time zone you're in I guess - but even still I'd have expected people to have added something by now05:41
@preactionyeah, i'm thinking no05:41
Radix-wrkJust a bit sad that there was only two of us who contributed. :(05:42
@preactionsteve just tapped me for some perl code to add to the design for http://webgui.org, so hopefully after the split we have less people saying that WebGUI is Plain Black05:42
@preactionplus as evidenced in the IRC channel, the community is re-growing05:43
Radix-wrkyup.. was only two others in here when I started! :)05:43
Radix-wrkand neither of them said anything!05:43
@preactionyeah, back in the good ol' days05:44
@preactionwell, maybe not so good05:44
SDuensinI still want to write my wiki entry.  Just need to figure a few more things out.05:45
SDuensinUnfortunately, it's not going to happen in two hours and 15 minutes.05:45
@preactioneh, i imagine it ends when Roy reads his mail in the morning, so go ahead and submit, and maybe you'll be grandfathered in05:45
Radix-wrkthis with the photo gallery template that rizen gave you the other day?  or something new since then?05:46
SDuensinI can't finish it tonight.  :-/05:46
SDuensinIt's built off what he gave me.05:46
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SDuensinMy connection seems to be slow tonight, and the images need resized.  Give it time when you click on one.05:46
@preactionand unfortunately, i just learned my frypan needs to warm up far more in order to cook proper stirfry05:46
@preactioni blame the fact that i haven't cooked chinese in a while05:47
Radix-wrkelectric wok ftw!05:47
SDuensinLike that gallery?05:48
Radix-wrkI have a very nice, deep electric wok (2400w) that is great for instant stirfry.. heats up REAL quick and perfect for all sorts.. tis cool05:48
@preactionsomething i might need to look into05:49
Radix-wrkmy stove sucks, so I tend to use the wok for all sorts of stuff.. pasta, curries, etc05:49
Radix-wrkSDuensin, neat!05:50
Radix-wrkDid you check out that SlideShowPro link I posted the other day?05:50
Radix-wrkKinda similar in some ways except that one is all flash.05:50
SDuensinYea.   Looked cool.  Didn't look free though.  (I've been on a hell of an OSS kick lately.)05:50
Radix-wrknah.. definitely not free05:51
SDuensinIt did look good though!05:51
Radix-wrkand yeah, this one looks awesome if it's free05:51
SDuensinThis is really easy.  Just toss images into a folder asset and assign the gallery template.05:51
SDuensinIt's even smart enough to work out multiple galleries on one page and set up the paging for them.05:52
SDuensinI just wish I knew how to get to the menuTitle field of the image assets!05:52
Radix-wrkHmm.. you know what would really rock.. a webgui object that interfaces/links to a flickr set or something as they do have a full api I'm pretty sure05:52
SDuensinThat wouldn't be too hard, I wouldn't think.05:53
SDuensinI'm not much for hosting my content elsewhere.  That's why I was looking to do it all with WebGUI.05:53
SDuensinAnyway, I'll ask more weird template questions tomorrow when more people are here.05:57
Radix-wrkYeah, it's hard for us aussies tho.. upload bandwidth is so limited here (1mbit max prettymuch without forking out a fortune) and it's slow for the rest of the world to boot.  We can get away with hosting the images ourselves (providing they're not large ones) off our 1mbit uplink - but everything else, larger files, movies, downloads, pdfs, etc all have to go on external hosting for us or our net link is cactus05:58
patspamwhat's the proper way to update groupIdView on an asset through the API?06:17
@preaction$asset->update({ groupIdView => "newValue" });06:17
@preactionunless you want to make a new revision06:17
patspamah great, thanks06:18
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Hinrikhow do I fix this?10:52
Hinrik/data is a symlink to /usr/local/data btw...10:52
Hinrikmost non-ascii characters come out wrong10:53
Hinrikthis is all supposed to be set to utf810:53
Hinrikit looks right if I start the client with --default-character-set=utf8, but that should be the default...10:54
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pjesi_hi guys15:58
pjesi_I was asked to add a discussion board to the site but it doesnt show any controls15:59
pjesi_so I tried the CS15:59
pjesi_it doesnt generate any html16:00
pjesi_any ideas?16:00
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@snapcountwoo hoo... vpn time17:12
@snapcountback later17:12
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ckotilHow could i programmatically migrate Faq-o-matic entries to webgui , without writing a custom import script?18:49
@rizenyou realize that what you just stated is an oxymoron right?18:49
@rizenhow can i program without programming?18:49
* ckotil sighs18:50
@rizeni have one way you could do it18:50
ckotilim all ears.18:50
@rizenyou could have someone else do the programming for you18:50
@rizenthat way *you* didn't do any programming18:50
ckotilthats a technicality18:51
@rizenit's my only suggestiong18:51
@rizenminus the g18:51
@rizendoes SQL count as programming?18:51
@rizenno suggestions then18:51
ckotili might try to write something to crawl the FOM grab the text and create webgui assets18:52
ckotilid rather not do this by hand. (enter all the FOM entries into wG)18:52
@rizenthat counts as programming18:53
ckotilindeed it does. i was just asking if there were a way to do it wihtout programming18:54
ckotilor if a script already existed18:54
ckotilcrythias uses FOM for his webgui faq18:55
ckotiland theres a question. why not use webgui for the faq.18:55
ckotilto which there is not a good answer.18:55
@rizenhe has an answer for that in his faq18:55
ckotiloh, i should reread it then.18:55
+MrHairgreasehis provider doesn't allow webgui18:55
ckotilmy group just decided to give up the FOM to use webgui18:55
ckotiloh :x   hehe18:55
@rizenthat isn't the only reason18:56
@rizennor is it the reason he gives in his faq18:56
ckotilso i setup the file/knowledge repository structure in webgui.18:56
+MrHairgreaselet me read the faq then18:56
@rizenin the faq he says something like: i didn't expect to stay with webgui very long18:56
ckotili use shortcut assets in a few places for redundancy. it has come together quiet nicely, and is starting to fill up with content18:56
ckotilnavigation assets 0wn me. they are a life saver18:57
@rizennice to hear, many people say they are the bane of their existience18:59
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ckotilat first they were.19:09
ckotilnow i make them my bitch19:09
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+perlDreamerckotil: For your FAQ-o-matic, you could HttpProxy it in, but that's a workaround20:09
+perlDreamerpreaction: re SDuensin's folder problems, the Folder only gives you a limited set of child Asset properties.20:11
+perlDreamerIt's a bummer20:11
@preactionis it an RFE? i'll pump in some karma20:11
+perlDreamermenuTitle is not in the list20:12
+perlDreamerIt would be like a 10 second hack.20:12
@preactionit's easier to get the full gamut than it is to restrict :p20:12
+perlDreamerwell, yes and no20:12
+perlDreamer$asset->get vs $asset->getTemplateVars is a whole world of difference20:12
@preaction$asset->get gets menuTitle20:13
+perlDreameryes, plus it gets every base Asset property, every base Wobject property and every specific Asset/Wobject property.20:14
+perlDreamerWe couldn't document that in the generic way that it is now.20:14
@preactionwait, there is a base WebGUI::Asset::getTemplateVars?20:14
+perlDreameryes, kind of20:15
+perlDreamerevery template in the end does $asset->get and appends it to the template vars passed in.20:15
+perlDreamer(top-level asset template, not child level template vars)20:15
+perlDreamerIf every asset had a getTemplateVars, like the oh-so well designed Event and Calendar, it would make sub-classing them possible.20:16
+perlDreamerand testing them easier20:16
+perlDreamerand adding tertiary interfaces possible (think SOAP/WSDL, etc.)20:16
@preactiontrue enough20:16
+perlDreamerI guess what I'm saying is that we could file a bug report for the missing menuTitle and get it in now, and then talk with the big guy about larger interfaces in 7.420:17
@preactionusing getTemplateVars as the way to get the base template vars of the asset that are general to every www_ method in the asset20:19
+perlDreamerrizen: I need a bug consult.  I fixed half of a bug but need to know how to correct things that the bug has already broken.20:19
+perlDreamerpreaction:are you saying every www_ method in Asset, or just in Event and Calendar?20:23
@preactioni don't know. it fits for Event because of the processing involved with the dates, but for something like a Folder, $asset->get works fine20:25
@preactionof course, WebGUI::Asset::getTemplateVars could just return $self->get; and let the child classes add to that20:25
+perlDreamerah, I alluded to that earlier20:26
+perlDreamer->get and -getTemplateVariables are worlds apart20:26
@preactionthat's what i was thinkng you were getting at20:26
+perlDreamer->get would meet 90% of most people's needs20:26
+perlDreamerbut also contains yards of Asset cruft20:26
+perlDreamerassetIds, templateIds, groupIds, etc.20:27
+perlDreamerusers will want asset names, template names and group names20:27
+perlDreamerthat requires getTemplateVars20:27
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ckotilpd: ive deleted every http proxy asset on my site20:47
ckotilit was causing apache to blow up. spiked the cpu and filled up the memory and swap20:47
ckotilweb crawlers were pulling down our rrd files20:47
ckotilremember, the funky characters hitting my logs.20:47
ckotilid like to go back to using http proxy asset bc its really nice to get that content inline with the rest of my site20:48
ckotilWhat's this import script xtopher is using?20:56
ckotilimporting content from static sites. i might be able to use that for my FOM entries20:56
@rizenpd, i'm back21:07
@rizeni guess i should say perlDreamer so that it actually makes a sound for you21:08
+perlDreamerI'm here21:19
+perlDreamerYou remember the file upload bug from 2-3 days ago?21:19
@rizeni'm not21:19
@rizenjust kidding21:19
+perlDreamerthe bug is fixed, but now people have images with no thumbnails21:20
+perlDreamershould we script a solution for that?21:20
@rizenthere's already one21:20
@rizenthumbnailer.pl comes with webgui21:20
@rizenalthough, you could add a --flag to it21:21
@rizento only generate thumbs for images that don't have them21:21
+perlDreamerthe only side effect I see to that is ZipArchives may upload images, and they'd get thumbnails created in there, but that's not bad21:22
+perlDreamerI'll post that as the response to the bug and add it to the gotchas21:22
@rizenyeah, they'd get them, but it shouldn't affect them21:23
@rizenso i think we're good21:23
+perlDreameris there a general threshold/metric for deciding when to create scripts to fix stuff like this versus not?21:23
@rizendid i do something deserving thanks?21:23
+perlDreameryou decided whether this should have more work done on it21:24
@rizengenerally speaking we should try to fix stuff directly in the upgrade when possible and practical21:24
@rizenin this case, adding the thumbnailer to the upgrade is possible but not practical21:24
@rizenbecause it will slow down the upgrade considerably21:24
@rizenand my guess is that most people don't care about the thumbnails or we would have had a lot more people raising a big stink about it21:25
+perlDreamerThe thumbnailer script doesn't use Getopts for command line arguments.  Can I convert it to add the flag?21:31
ckotilhttp://www.plainblack.com/uploads/3C/X7/3CX7ekuCh7O6SuhqPNj-gQ/IIPImportSites_poland_pl.txt  @ $myfolder , im confused at the difference in  templateId and styleTemplateId21:35
ckotilat  $myfolder , im confused at the difference in  templateId and styleTemplateId21:35
+perlDreamertemplateId is whatever local/asset specific template the asset uses to display itself.  The view method.21:36
+perlDreamerstyleTemplate is there so that when you visit an Asset directly (via its url), it gets the style template for the site.21:37
+perlDreamerdoes that help?21:37
ckotilya , got it. thanks pd21:37
@rizenpd: yes21:40
@rizenthat's one of the very first utility scripts i ever wrote for webgui21:40
@rizenso i'm sure it could use some TLC21:41
@rizengotta reboot..brb21:41
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ckotilpd im still confused actually...21:44
ckotilim inside.. 21:44
ckotil my $page = $parent->addChild({21:44
ckotil                        className=>'WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Layout',21:44
ckotiland i see21:45
ckotil                        templateId=>"ahG2dUzE0GrK2kHWt6Qxdw",21:45
ckotil                        styleTemplateId=>$templateID,21:45
ckotilwhy would styleTemplateId match templateId21:45
ckotilshouldnt styleTemplateId be the sites style?21:45
ckotilim about to just go through with it on my dev box,a nd see what happens. ive already got a backup ready21:46
ckotiloh. nvm21:47
ckotiltemplateId must be different from $templateId21:47
+perlDreamerbad variable naming convention21:48
+perlDreamerit probably should have been called $styleTemplateId instead of $templateId21:48
+perlDreamerOne way to check it is to go find the template associated with that Id and check it's template namespace21:48
ckotilya i didnt that for article, and it checked out pbltmpl0000002.21:49
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ckotili dunno21:54
ckotilhere goes nothing.21:54
* ckotil crosses his fingers21:54
@rizencut the blue wire!!!21:55
* perlDreamer points out that rizen is color blind21:56
+perlDreamerAlas, poor ckotil.  We knew him well22:01
@rizenhe must have died22:06
@rizennot a single reply in over 10 minutes22:06
+perlDreamerYou sure about that blue wire?22:08
@rizenhmmm...i could have been mistaken22:12
@rizenit might have been the green wire22:12
ckotilim just frustrated22:16
ckotilim getting 'cannot open config file: at ....../WebGUI/Config.pm line 350, <DATA> line 22522:17
+perlDreamerthe scripts usually accept a bare config file name, without path22:18
+perlDreameralso check read access22:18
ckotilim running as root.22:18
ckotilat first i got this error...22:18
@rizenand make sure you're spelling crap right22:18
ckotilCouldn't parse JSON in config file ''22:19
@rizeni'm a terrible typist so i always mistype22:19
ckotilthen i edited where it looks for the coonfig.22:19
ckotilthis is how it originially was.   my $session = WebGUI::Session->open("../",$configFile);22:19
ckotili made it   my $session = WebGUI::Session->open("../etc/",$configFile);22:19
ckotilrunning from inside sbin22:19
ckotilthen i get the Config.pm error22:20
+perlDreamerSession->open wants a WebGUI root directory22:20
ckotilok , so it was fine to begin with.22:20
+perlDreamerI'd say the original error is true and you have bad JSON.22:20
ckotilhrm, ive had this config since 6.9922:21
+perlDreamerrecently modified?22:28
ckotili think one my admins hacked it up a while back22:28
ckotilim editing WebGUI.original.conf22:29
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ckotilstill couldnt parse JSON in config22:37
@snapcountgood lord, somehow I managed to burn this TV dinner22:41
@snapcountstill not too bad though...22:41
ckotilhrm. my config has to be JSON22:46
ckotilthis script still isnt working for me. any ideas?22:46
ckotilnew plan of action22:53
ckotilafter realizing this script will not be the end all solution to my problem. i.e grab all the entries of the FOM and represent them as layouts and articles. i will instead use the fileImport script22:54
ckotiland then deal with organizing hte mess of html files22:54
ckotilas file assets. for now22:54
@preactionsnapcount: SYN?22:57
ckotilyuck what a mess that is23:09
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+perlDreamerckotil: how about setting up a CS-based FAQ-o-matic?23:30
+perlDreamerbut that takes you back to the JSON stuff23:31
@preactioni'm thinking that the error you're getting should have a filename in those '', otherwise i'm thinking that it's not getting the configuration filename23:32
ckotila CS-based FOM would be ideal. i think my group would go for that.23:37
ckotilyah, he '' is suspect23:37
@preactionSession->open($WEBGUI_ROOT, $PATH_TO_CONFIG); # $PATH_TO_CONFIG should include 'etc/' iirc. otherwise WebGUI::Session->open should probably include some more debug code for when it fatals like that23:38
@preactioncannot parse JSON why? you know23:39
ckotilbeats me.23:39
ckotilmy conf is JSON. has to be.23:39
@preactioncheck $! or $@ as appropriate23:39
ckotili even recreated it based on WebGUI.original.conf23:39
+perlDreameryou don't need the ./etc23:40
* ckotil nods23:40
ckotili removed it.23:40
+perlDreamerWebGUI::Config adds is automatically23:40
+perlDreamerthat didn't help?23:40
ckotilin the mean time i ran importFile.pl 23:41
ckotilthat ran off just fine23:41
+perlDreamerif you like, you can paste that part of your script for us to look at23:45
xdangermy webgui installation isn't sending emails anymore... where should I start to look?23:47
xdangerit's running23:47
@preactionmysql mailQueue table23:47
xdangersmtp server is working23:47
@rizenif you're running 7.3.10 or abovve23:47
@rizendo 23:47
@rizenperl spectre.pl --status23:47
@rizenand see if there's some stuff gummed up23:48
+perlDreamerpreaction: off the top of your head, do you remember the PBP for constructing booleans out of complex conditionals?23:48
@preactionperlDreamer: nope23:48
+perlDreamerk, thanks23:48
xdangerrizen: I'm running 7.3.823:48
@rizenthen do what perlDreamer suggested and look at what's in your mailQueue table23:49
ckotilill take it to the forums.23:50
ckotilthanks guys23:51
xdangerThere's 8 mails, in the queue table...23:51
@rizenand restarting spectre doesn't clear them out?23:52
@rizenthen either you have some other workflow gumming up the works23:55
@rizencheck the running workflows screen in webgui23:55
@rizenor your mail server isn't taking the mails23:55
xdangerI was running spectre on --debug --run in screen... restarted that23:55
@rizencheck the webgui.log23:55
xdangernothing in the log23:55
@rizenthat's the amount of support i'm willing to give you23:55
+perlDreamerrizen, that would make a great wiki article23:56
xdangerThere are 3-4 screens of Hourly Maintenance Tasks in showRunningWorkflows23:56
+perlDreamerand would save you from asking all those questions every time to every spectre question23:56
@rizengood luck with that pd23:57
@rizeni don't write wiki articles23:57
@rizeni write books that are for sale23:57
@rizenand i have over 20 pages of troubleshooting material in that book i'm writing just on spectre23:57
--- Day changed Fri Mar 02 2007
+perlDreamerroger that, rizen.  Maybe I'll just copy and paste the most basic stuff from the IRC logs and then teach gooeybot a new trick.00:02
@preactionstep 1?00:03
gooeybotstep 1 is Check the error logs, both WebGUI and Apache.00:03
xdangerspectre debug prints something like this: WORKFLOW: Was told to wait on PihhW8apdQ7RQeke0sTwHg because we're still waiting on some external event.00:05
xdangerall the time00:05
+perlDreamerpreaction: can a mysql select statement be constructed to do the setting of groupIdEditEvent to groupIdEdit?  It would require joining the tables and doing a revision subselect?00:06
@rizenhave you noticed that the irc channel has pretty much killed the dev mailing list?00:06
+perlDreamerdevs are impatient?00:07
@preactionperlDreamer: update Calendar set groupIdEditEvent=(select groupIdEdit from assetData where assetData.assetId=Calendar.assetId); # maybe?00:07
@preactionoh, forgot the revision subselect as well00:07
@preactionmight just be easier to update the current revision using API though00:08
@preactionrizen: i was thinking about mentioning something on the dev list about it, IRC is easier00:08
@preactionand surprisingly it's populated almost 24/7, thanks to our aussie and euro cohorts00:09
@rizenyeah, but it's also realtime00:09
@preactionif someone's active ;)00:09
@rizenwhich is a gift and a curse00:09
+perlDreamerwhat's the curse part?00:11
+perlDreamernot being able to queue up and respond to stuff?00:11
@rizenthe curse part is you have to be here to participate00:12
@rizentechnically you could read the logs...but unless you're dedicated you won't do that00:12
@rizenthe dev mailing list is organized by threads00:13
@rizenand it's not real time00:13
@rizenso you can participate in the discussion on your own time00:13
@rizenand only follow the threads that are interesting to you00:13
@rizenif you're not here and you read the logs00:13
@rizenand then respond 2 days later00:13
@rizennobody will know what you're talking about00:13
xdangerWORKFLOW: Total workflows waiting to run: 72000:14
@rizenon the dev mailing list...everyone knows00:14
xdangerThe number isn't going down..00:14
@rizenthere's your problem xdanger...you have a clog00:14
@rizenif you upgrade to 7.3.10+, the ones that can run will00:14
@rizenand the others will be left00:14
@rizenthusly explaining where your clog is00:14
xdangerDon't have the time to upgrade right now, but will do that tommorrow...00:15
@rizenthat's the beauty of the new queuing system in 7.3.10...it can't get clogged00:15
+perlDreameryou can call it DRAINO00:15
xdangerthat good =)00:15
@rizenyou can have stuff that doesn't work...but everything else continues working00:15
@rizenand you can then just fix the problem children00:15
@rizenpd: why didn't you come up with that when we were talking about it before?00:16
@rizeni could have named it DRAINO00:16
+perlDreamerDynamic Reallocation of Asynchronous INternet Objects00:17
+perlDreamertime to test thumbnailer 2.000:18
@rizenthat doesn't make any sense00:18
@rizenthumbnailer 2.000:18
@rizenthat's my favorite00:18
@rizendid you upgrade it to use File::Find00:18
@rizencuz i should have done that long ago00:18
+perlDreamerwant a preview?00:18
+perlDreamergooeybot pastebin?00:18
gooeybotpastebin is http://pastebin.ca00:18
@rizenjust check it in00:18
@rizenthen i'll have a preview00:19
+perlDreamerit's in00:19
+perlDreamerand untested00:19
+perlDreamer<insert standard disclaimer here>00:20
@preactionDynamic Running of Asychronous INdependant Outcomes00:20
@preactionwe need an acrobot in here00:20
+perlDreamerwhat do you know?  the thing worked the first time!00:23
+perlDreamer<remove standard disclaimer>00:23
@rizenlooks good00:25
@rizenit's crap00:25
@rizenit doesn't have the standard --help option00:25
@rizenthat all other utils do00:25
+perlDreamer--help it is00:26
+perlDreamer-2 bugs00:35
+perlDreamerIs the clipboard now shared by default?00:46
@rizenyou mean between users?00:52
@rizeneach user has their own clipboard00:53
+perlDreamerI'm looking at susanb's clipboard bug.  She cut something from a page and then deleted the page.  Since the parentId points to the page, the clipboard item got deleted, too.00:54
+perlDreamerIs that fixable?00:54
+perlDreamerWe'd need some "safe" clipboard parent/folder thingy00:54
@rizenthat's not fixable00:55
@rizenit's a side effect of the way clipboard is done these days00:55
@rizenthe old way was that we moved it to a "clipboard" node00:55
@rizenbut in that way, it was impossible to truely "restore" it back to where it was00:56
@rizenso with the asset tree, it's left in place and just marked as clipped00:56
@rizenbut that means if it's parent goes away so does it00:56
@rizenwhich is actually how all operating system filesystems work too00:56
@rizenif you "copy" a file00:56
@rizenand then delete the folder the file belongs to00:57
@rizenand then try to "paste" the file00:57
@rizenyou can't do it00:57
+perlDreamerokay, I'll look to see if we can add something to the docs and then close the bug00:57
Radix_can't remove the item from the trash?00:57
+perlDreamerRadix_: clipboard, not trash00:58
+perlDreameralthough you can't restore from the clipboard either, can you?00:58
@rizenyes you can00:58
Radix_"She cut something from a page and then deleted the page."00:58
Radix_so undelete the page, then it would come back, no?00:58
@rizenAdmin Console > Clipboard > Restore00:59
@rizenyes, if she were to restore from trash, the page would come back into existence00:59
@rizenbut it would no longer be in the clipboard00:59
@rizenit would be out onthe page00:59
@rizenbecause she performed a "restore" operation to get it back00:59
Radix_Ahh k.. clipped flag gets reset00:59
@rizenand "restore" republishes00:59
+perlDreamerah, I see now01:00
@rizenoh and pd01:00
@rizenif you try to paste an asset back to the page it was already on..it does a restore operation rather than a paste01:01
@rizenbecause it's more efficient, and more likely what the user intended01:01
@rizenso that's a shortcut to restore01:01
+perlDreamerI also found out that you can restore an asset copied to the clipboard, which duplicates it on the page where it was copied from.01:01
@rizenbecause the copy operation works like this:01:02
@rizen1) duplicate01:02
@rizen2) cut01:02
@rizentherefore even though you didn't see it, for a split second it was on the page01:02
+perlDreamersounds like we need a Clipboard, Using help entry01:03
@rizenprobably a wiki page rather than a help page01:04
@rizencuz it's more tutorial and less reference01:04
@rizenand the help is a big bloated pile01:04
@rizenand the more shit you keep adding to the help01:05
@rizenthe more memory webgui uses01:05
@rizeni'm starting to formulate a plan about it actually01:05
@rizenand that is that the only thing that should go into help01:05
@rizenis stuff that is version specific01:05
@rizenlike fields and template variables01:05
@rizeneverything else should be linked out to the wiki01:05
+perlDreamerbetween hoverHelp and the upcoming template variable manager, maybe we wouldn't even need online help.01:06
+perlDreamerjust a link to the Wiki01:07
@rizenactually, that's a good point01:07
@rizenand it also solves the searchability problem01:07
@rizencuz the wiki is searchable01:07
@rizenand will be taggable01:07
@rizenand it makes it far easier for translators01:08
@rizencuz they don't have to translate all the help in order to make a translation for webgui01:08
@rizenjust the stuff that matters01:08
+perlDreamerwe wouldn't have any translated docs for wiki entries, though01:08
@rizenit's not like we do now anyway01:09
@rizenwe don't have any real translations01:09
+perlDreamerI've never looked at them01:09
@rizenand on top of that, if someone wants that they can start a wiki on one of the other webgui worldwide sites01:09
@rizennobody has really translated webgui since 5.x01:09
@rizenthe dutch team is supposedly almost finished with a webgui 7 translation01:10
@rizenbut i haven't seen it01:10
@rizenthe more we can remove from help, the better as a far as webgui's memory usage goes01:10
@rizenand like i said, since wiki is searchable, it's better for the user as well01:11
+perlDreameris the help->wiki transition scheduled, or just a generic RFE?01:11
@rizenit's just one of my rough ideas01:12
+perlDreamerI'll stop blowing in more information, except for fields and template variables then.01:12
@rizenit's not officially an rfe or on the scheudle01:12
@rizenbut maybe we should do it for 7.4 as we do the template variable translation01:12
@rizenfrom foo.bar to foo_bar01:13
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@rizenwe'll be in there doing major revamp anyway01:13
+perlDreameras long as we can cut and paste from the online help to the wiki and it's fast, it shouldn't be too much work01:13
@rizenmight as well take care of both 01:13
+perlDreamerthe downside is that I can't write wiki articles01:13
@rizenyou can't?01:13
@rizenwhy not?01:14
@rizenfor the same reason as me?01:14
+perlDreamernot at $dayJob.  Old Mozilla doesn't work with YUI tabs01:14
@rizenthat's no bother01:14
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@rizeni actually can assign a pb staffer to do it01:14
@rizenthe copy paste job i mean01:14
@rizenit certainly shouldn't be you doing it01:14
@rizenor me for that matter01:14
@rizenwe have more important fish to fry01:15
+perlDreamerwhy not?  I'm a volunteer.  I'm cheap.01:15
@preactionrizen: last i heard, the dutch team had a translation of 7.2.301:15
@rizenyou're a highly skilled and talented volunteer01:15
@rizenand therefore not cheap01:15
@rizentime is just as valuable as money01:15
@preactionwe need to keep you happy, and we can't use money to do it01:15
@rizenand i have a data entry person on staff01:15
@rizenso she can do it01:16
@rizeni just sent her an email about it. she's out sick this week, so i'll get her started on it next week01:17
@rizenpd: the tabs are supposed to degrade gracefully01:18
@rizenwhat do you see?01:18
+perlDreamerI see all 3 tabs, but I can't flip between them.01:18
+perlDreamerI only get the view tab01:18
@rizenah. therein lies the problem01:19
@rizenit's not that you don't have css/javascript capability01:20
@rizenit's that you have a crappy implmeentation of both01:20
+perlDreamerMozilla 1.401:20
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+perlDreameras she does the copy and paste, if she lets me know I can start pulling the articles out of the help as well01:21
+perlDreamerand all links to it01:21
@rizenwe can just do that when she's done01:23
@rizenand then the help icon in webgui will just link directly to http://wiki.webgui.org/01:23
+perlDreamerDo you know Isaac's last name and company so I can give him credit in the changelog for a bug with patch?01:23
+perlDreamerthe only thing the help will need to do is do inheritance for fields and template variables.01:28
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+perlDreamerSDuensin: Still looking for help on folder template variables?01:32
+perlDreamerpreaction and I had a long talk about it this morning01:32
* SDuensin has a broken network at the moment. Storms knocked it out.01:32
+perlDreamermenuTitle is not an available template variable in the folder.01:33
SDuensinLoading, too.01:33
+perlDreamerHere's our suggestion01:33
+perlDreamer1) File a bug for the missing menuTitle template var.01:34
+perlDreamerthat can be fixed quickly01:34
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+perlDreamer2) Submit an RFE to review which template vars are provided for each Asset in the folder.01:34
SDuensinAwesome.  :-)   Thanks!01:35
+perlDreamerIt could do something like a $asset->get(), which would populate all the asset variables01:35
SDuensinI can't even get to my WebGUI install with my net down.  :-(01:35
+perlDreamerrizen can weigh in on the cost/side effects and give us a good permanent solution01:35
@rizenrizen is not here right now. if you would like to leave a message for rizen, leave it after the beep.01:36
+perlDreamerrizen: would rizen have a cow if inside the Folder file_loop it did $asset->get instead of assigning a subset of template variables?01:36
+perlDreamerit would make the template variables big01:36
SDuensinBig, schmig.  RAM is cheap.  :-)01:37
+perlDreamerbut potentially very handy01:37
+perlDreamerBig = Slow = fewer pages/second01:37
@rizencare to restate that01:37
+perlDreamerright now it cherry picks asset variables01:37
@rizenlook agai01:38
+perlDreamerinside the file_loop, there's getId, canView, getIcon, getName, getUrl, etc...01:38
@rizenit cherry picks variable. not variables01:38
@rizenthe other things are method calls01:38
@rizentherefore, instead = no01:38
+perlDreamerin addition to?01:39
@rizenin addition or as a base, sure01:39
+perlDreamer7.4-ish or 7.3.12-ish?01:39
+perlDreamerwait a second01:40
+perlDreamerthis will never work with the template variable editor01:40
SDuensinrizen, I'm expanding the template you gave me into a nice gallery.  I want the menuTitle of the images to use as a long description while keeping their filename in the title.01:40
+perlDreamerSDuensin: use the synopsis instead01:41
@rizenpd is right01:41
SDuensinThat's what I was thinking after reading the help URL you posted, perlDreamer .01:41
+perlDreamerrizen: you're right.01:42
+perlDreamerthe current help system is completely broken01:42
SDuensinDunno why I couldn't find that help the other night.  Looked all over the place.01:42
+perlDreamerin that case, let's put the brakes on the whole concept of altering folder template variables01:43
SDuensinYea.  Synopsis works for me.01:44
* SDuensin wants his net fixed so he can finish the gallery!01:44
* SDuensin is going to eat. Thanks again!01:44
+perlDreamerThat's why they pay me the big bucks01:44
+perlDreamerbesides, it was rizen who put our heads on right01:45
@rizenthe folder asset rocks01:46
@rizenthat's why we're doing a whole talk on just that at the wuc01:46
+perlDreamerare you covering folder podcasting?01:46
@rizeni don't know exactly what all will be covered01:47
@rizenlots of cool stuff01:47
@rizensteve won't have his outline done until april01:49
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+perlDreamerxtopher has been busy today02:02
Radix-wrkin the asset view, with the More->Revisions option.  If you delete those revisions is that for ONLY that object, or all items in that revision history?02:13
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@preactionjust that asset02:17
@preactionit's probably just delete from assetData, <tablename> where revisionDate = ?02:17
@preaction(or similar, not exact)02:17
Radix-wrkthat's what I thought, but wanted to make sure - never used it before :)02:17
Radix-wrkjust answering a question on the forums02:18
Radix-wrkwanted to make sure that I was right in my assumptions :)02:19
Radix-wrkIf I'm not, I'll blame you now.. it's cool :)02:20
@preactioni can be the pariah!02:20
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PedersenMJgood <insert time of day here>04:32
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PedersenMJHow goes it?04:56
@rizenthe first of the three books is done04:57
@rizen400 pages later04:57
@rizenhave some formatting to do, and then it will be available for purchase04:57
PedersenMJSweet. Which one is it that's done?04:58
@rizenthe content managers guide04:58
@rizeni'm 1/3 of the way through the admins guide04:58
PedersenMJHard for me to decide which of those two I'd be more interested in buying. Will buy both, most likely.04:59
@rizenthere's also the designer's guide04:59
@rizenbut that's going to be the last one out05:00
@rizenlots of code examples to generate for that one05:00
@rizenso it takes the longest05:00
@rizenoh...and don't you have WebGUI Done Right05:00
@rizencuz i think we're going to offer coupons to WDR subscribers to get two of the 4 books we have for free if you have 6mo left on your WDR contract05:01
@rizendon't quote me on that though...cuz it hasn't been decided for sure05:02
PedersenMJI do have that subscription, yeah.05:02
PedersenMJThat would be cool, since I only got that this past Dec.05:02
PedersenMJSorry for my idleness, doing banking tonight (yay. paying bills is fun! :p05:03
@preactiongooeybot, smart questions is http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html or http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html05:27
gooeybotOK, preaction.05:27
+crythiasgooeybot, gerald is fired.05:54
gooeybotOK, crythias.05:54
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gooeybotgerald is fired.05:54
+perlDreameroh dear05:54
* PedersenMJ ponders doing the "smart question" version of "who is Gerald?", but realizes he'd spend an awful lot of time on prepping that question, and is just too impatient. So, who is gerald?05:55
+crythiasgooeybot, pi is 3.1415926535 (at least)05:55
gooeybotOK, crythias.05:55
+perlDreamergerald == crythias05:55
PedersenMJCrythias: Am hoping you're not saying you're now jobless?05:56
* PedersenMJ is dense, yes.05:56
+perlDreamercrythias, don't you mean 3.1415926535 +/- 1.0 ?05:56
+crythiasoh, no. just relaying rizen's viewpoint.05:56
PedersenMJgooeybot, perlDreamer is the Indiana State Legislature.05:56
gooeybot...but perldreamer is bug empowered...05:56
+crythiasnever ask a question you don't already know the answer to.05:56
+crythiasperldreamer: pi is never less than 3, even for very small values of pi.05:57
+perlDreamernow, if only I was bug sponsored...05:57
+crythiasnow, if only I were more creative in a website...05:58
+crythiasdesign is for pansies.05:58
+crythiaserm. oops05:58
+crythiasI meant to say, design is for people who have time to make things purty.05:59
@rizenso i just demo'd drupal for the first time05:59
+perlDreamerwhat did you think?05:59
@rizenand i have to say...it was pretty cool05:59
@rizensomeone told me today that drupal was twice as powerful as webgui05:59
@rizenso i had to see for myself05:59
+perlDreamerany lessons we can learn from them?05:59
@rizenif you define power as flexibility...drupal is 1/1000 as powerful as webgui05:59
@rizenif you define power as easy to use then drupal is 1:1 as powerful as webgui06:00
@rizenif you define power as number of features then drupal is 1/100 as powerful as webgui06:00
+crythiasI love the new cms's coming out : it can do anything you want to do ... as long as you do it.06:00
@rizenif you define power as how quickly you can build your first site without knowing anything, then drupal is 10/1 as powerful as webgui06:00
@rizenwhich makes me think....we have a weakness06:01
@rizenand it needs to be corrected in 7.406:01
PedersenMJWell, to be fair, JT, with that as your yardstick, raw HTML is about 10/1 as powerful as WebGUI. Unless you count interactivity in that list.06:01
+perlDreamerhow do we do that?06:02
@rizenbring back an old idea that i had06:02
@rizenbut never implemented06:02
@rizenthat is06:02
@rizenat the end of the little startup session (asks you your user/pass/email etc)06:03
@rizenwe ask the user if they wish to use the new site guided setup06:03
@rizenif they say yes06:03
@rizenthen we lead them through a wizard06:03
@rizenit asks them if they want a contact form06:03
@rizenand if so, we add a page with a dataform asset preconfigured on their site06:04
@rizenit asks them if they want forums...if so we put a message board up with a common list of forums in it06:04
@rizenwe ask them more about their organization...they provide a paragraph and a logo06:04
@rizenand we create an about us page06:04
@rizenwe also hold on to that logo06:04
@rizenbecause as part of this process06:05
+perlDreamerlike the style wizard on steroids06:05
@rizenwe give them a little design wizard06:05
@rizenthat will help them either pick a predesigned style06:05
@rizenor make one from scratch06:05
@rizenwhatever we decide is easiest06:05
@rizenbut when they hit "save" for the last time06:05
@rizenthey have a fully built site06:05
@rizenwithout using the regular webgui UI06:06
@rizenand the key here is, that now that they have something familiar to them06:06
@rizenthey'll be able to play around with that06:06
@rizenand learn how the regular ui works06:06
@rizenbecause editng an existng asset06:06
@rizenis far less scary06:06
@rizenthan adding a new one for the first time06:06
@rizeneverybody agree with the plan?06:07
@rizenand dissenters?06:07
@rizenany changes or additions?06:07
gooeybotgerald is fired.06:07
@rizengooeybot forget gerald06:07
gooeybotrizen: I forgot gerald06:07
@rizennow he's not fired anymore06:07
+crythiasok... now'm simply forgotten *sniff*06:08
+crythiasanyway, sure, good idea.06:08
@rizengooeybot, gerald is faq-o-licious06:08
gooeybotOK, rizen.06:08
+crythiasfaq me?06:08
@rizenno feedback at all from anybody06:09
@rizenexcept gerald06:09
@rizenwho seems pretty ho-hum about it06:09
@rizengooeybot, everyone is asleep06:10
gooeybot...but everyone is supposed to think i'm the jackass that shoots everyone's ideas down...06:10
@rizengoeybot forget everyone06:10
@rizengooeybot, forget everyone06:10
gooeybotrizen: I forgot everyone06:10
@rizengoeybot, everyone is asleep06:10
PedersenMJActually, it *is* a good idea.06:10
@rizengooeybot, everyone is asleep06:11
gooeybotOK, rizen.06:11
+perlDreamerhang on, preparing to nuke the site from orbit06:11
* crythias smiles just like Might Guy of Naruto...06:11
PedersenMJHere's my one negative thought about it, though: How is it actually different from what exists right now?06:11
@rizenthere's no guided setup to webgui at all right now...you get stuck with a bunch of demo pages that you have no relatonship with06:12
+crythiasit allows people to kinda start with "their stuff" rather than "pb's stuff"06:12
PedersenMJWhat you actually get right now is a fully functioning website. The only real differences (that I can see from my pov) is that you might add the first few assets for them.06:12
@rizenwhen the guided setup is over, you'll have a functioning site that is all your content06:12
+perlDreamerwell, not all but enough to see where to go from there.06:12
@rizenbut the key here is that it's a siite they can relate to06:13
@rizennot just a bunch of demo content from us06:13
+perlDreamerthat's good06:13
@rizenit's got a working style that has their logo in it06:13
@rizenit's got the default pages that they want to have06:13
PedersenMJOkay, that makes sense. That's the major difference that wasn't clicking for me.06:13
@rizenbasically.. the goal is that within 10 minutes06:14
@rizenthey should be able to turn on the site and say, hey visitors, look at me, i'm on the web06:14
@preactioncan we add an option for a "blank" site as well? that just the import node and the bare minimum of required stuff (and doesnt' create that demo content?)06:15
PedersenMJYes, please do!06:16
@rizeni don't think that would be a good idea06:16
@preactioni mean, if we're going that way, may as well go the full nines06:16
@rizenno...that's going the opposite direction06:16
@rizenthe only people that will want that are people that already know what they're doing in webgui06:16
@rizenand those people can just as easily delete the existing content06:16
@rizennoob users should never have that option shown to them06:17
PedersenMJBut, it would be nice to be able to have an empty slate right from the start.06:17
@preactiontrue, a luser will select it and wonder wtf06:17
@rizenfirst of all...how fucking lazy are you that you can't spend the 30 seconds to delete the default content06:17
PedersenMJI work on computers. That right there makes me lazy to some degree.06:18
@rizenand secondly, what does it get you? really...what?06:18
PedersenMJNothing other than convenience factor.06:18
@rizenno...what convenience?06:18
@rizenwhat convenience does it give you?06:18
PedersenMJThe convenience of not having to delete the page layouts and then create new.06:18
@rizenreally? are you sure that's what it gives you?06:19
@rizenwhat it really gives you is extra setup time06:19
@rizenbecause now you have to create a home page06:19
@rizenand then go into the settings and set it as a home page06:19
@rizencuz you won't even have a home page under your plan06:19
@preactionthe layout itself is there, just no content, no subpages, nothing else, at least that's what i was figuring06:19
+perlDreamerdoes drupal have a guided installer like this?  What makes it easier to do an initial setup06:19
PedersenMJUnless what is actually installed is just a blank home page.06:20
@rizendrupal has no guided setup...what it has though is no flexibility06:20
@rizenand that's why it's easy to get started06:20
Radix-wrkI have to agree with PedersenMJ - it would be nice to have a blank slate as an option - I think a basic home page with no pictures/articles/etc would be nice.06:20
@rizenlet's get it straight: i said no06:20
Radix-wrkJust my 2c06:21
@rizenthe whole point of this discussion is to help out noobs06:21
@rizeneven having that option available will fuck up noobs06:21
@rizenyou can take the 30 seconds to delete the default content06:21
PedersenMJActually, it's possible to abuse that option, go through the guided setup, and keep selecting "Nope, don't want that", which will give pretty close to the same result.06:21
@rizeni know you guys have to think about yourself06:22
@preactionPedersenMJ: can't protect against that much stupidity06:22
@rizenbut i have to think about the community at large06:22
@rizenand that does not help the community at large06:22
@rizenthe number of potential new users is far greater than the number of existing users who are creating a second site06:22
@rizenperlDreamer: back to you06:23
@rizenno guided setup06:23
@rizenbut due to lack of flexibility06:23
@rizenit's easy to get started06:23
PedersenMJNope, not trying to protect against stupidity. Trying to say that, within JT's idea, it's possible to get pretty close to what I was asking for.06:23
@rizenyou go to content creation06:23
@rizenand type in the names of the forums you want to create06:23
PedersenMJSo, for me, it works, and I'll let it go at that :)06:23
@rizenyou don't get to place them06:23
@rizenyou don't get to choose templates06:23
@rizenyou just get to pick name06:24
@rizenand whether or not users have to preview or if it's options06:24
Radix-wrkThe full gui editor stuff sounds great, but a simpler option would be to simply have several different styles come with the distribution and an extra step to let them pick the theme (which would update dynamically or something as they looked at each one.06:24
@rizenthen you move on to polls and do the same thing06:24
@rizenand finally you move on to site creation06:24
@rizenand there you type what you want to appear in your menus06:24
@rizenand if you want your menu on the left side or the right side06:24
@rizenand pick from these four style templates06:25
@rizenand choose the colors of them06:25
@rizenand upload your logo06:25
@rizenit's not a guided process06:25
@rizenbut what it is, is so inflexible..that it might as well be a guided process06:25
@rizenthe difference is that webgui will give you the easy guided process at the beginning06:26
@rizenbut then once you figure out what you're doing06:26
@rizenit will also give you all the flexibility and power you could hope for06:26
@rizenradix: as stated above, that was one of the options06:27
@rizendesign one or pick one06:27
PedersenMJSuggestion to go with it? Allow them to choose to import one right then?06:27
PedersenMJThey might well have found an existing .wgpkg which gives them the look they want. Let them import it and choose it.06:28
@rizenPedersonMJ: that's a good idea06:29
@rizenprobably just point them straight to the contrbs area06:29
@rizengive them a url06:29
@rizenand say...go pick one06:29
@rizenand upload it06:29
@rizenthe shitty part about that though is...no way to put their logo into it06:29
PedersenMJWell, maybe...06:30
@rizenbut maybe if they upload one...we just warn them that they have to put their own logo in06:30
@rizenand if they design one they get it put in automatically06:30
+perlDreamercould we have packages that refer to the uploaded logo instead of one included in the package?06:30
+perlDreamerthe logo would have to be restricted to certain sizes/aspects...06:30
PedersenMJNo *guaranteed* way to put it in. But come up with a simple standard: any theme should include a logo.png (or .jpg, or .gif), and *that* file can be replaced?06:30
+perlDreamerwe know the name, it just has to referenced via a macro in the package06:31
@rizenwe could request that users upload packages that have logo.png as part of it06:31
@rizenand then just replace it 06:31
@rizenyeah pederson06:31
PedersenMJAny package which honors that standard gets an extra special graphic next to it, or somesuch, so that newbies know this one will work for them.06:31
Radix-wrkit'd be nice to have a standard location in the asset tree for themes too actually06:32
@rizenthere is one06:32
@rizenit's called the import node06:32
Radix-wrkthe import node is a mess06:32
@rizenthe media folder is where you upload all your content images and files06:32
+perlDreamerthe logo can have any name, when we upload we'll assign it a URL and refer to it via an assetproxy macro.06:32
@rizenand the import node is for templates and such06:32
@rizenright pd...as long as the theme designers use the strict name...it doesn't matter what the user calls the image...or for that matter even if it's a jpg, png, or gif06:33
@rizenwe can convert it06:33
PedersenMJyeah, perlDreamer, I like that. A macro which spits out the img tag for the logo. Could even use ImageMagick to resize the logo if necessary.06:33
+perlDreamerPMJ: that macro is the assetproxy macro06:33
+perlDreamerwe ask them for it, upload it, stuff it into an asset with known URL which is used by a special subset of packages06:34
PedersenMJTrue. What asset should a theme designer use to reference it?06:35
+perlDreamer/company_logo ?06:35
@rizenradix: i don't disagree that it's a mess...especially if you've gone through a lot of uploads...but i don't know what to do to make it better either06:35
+perlDreamerwe can set the standard to be anything which doesn't inconvenience the user06:35
Radix-wrkme neither unfortunately :)06:35
Radix-wrkbut I find it hard to find templates these days.. with the large number of folders it might be.. search is the only option06:36
+perlDreamerthe asset manager search makes the import node acceptable06:36
@rizenyeah...but you have search06:36
@rizenthat's the key06:36
PedersenMJWell, for my own purposes, I use a "Themes" folder where I put my templates and the like, and hang that off of root.06:36
@rizenand you also have the asset interface which allows you to edit/manage the templates06:36
@rizenso you don't have to necessarily know where they are06:36
@rizeni mean on the display tab06:37
@rizenthe edit/manage buttons next to each template06:37
Radix-wrkI think styles should be standardized on what PedersenMJ has been doing.  images/css/js/etc should all be in one place in one directory in the asset tree06:37
Radix-wrkso if you import a package, you know where it's going to be, and you can delete it if you no longer want it and be assured that it'll all be cleaned up06:37
+perlDreamerwe're kind of wandering here, guys.06:37
+perlDreamerIssue #1 is the auto-setup idea06:38
+perlDreamerIf we like it, we can banter implementation later06:38
+perlDreamerbut rizen is asking whether we think it's good or not, not how to do it.06:38
+perlDreamerwe can tell him that later :)06:38
@rizenfirst: do we agree that this is even a problem?06:38
PedersenMJDefinitely wandering, definitely. Sorry about that. Is the idea good? Absolutely.06:38
@rizenthe setup time06:38
PedersenMJIs it a problem? Allow me to say "hell yes!"06:38
@rizenthe where do i get started factor06:38
Radix-wrkYes, I think it is06:38
+perlDreamerAsk Kristi06:39
@rizensecond: do we agree that my solution addresses that problem?06:39
@rizenthird: are there any ideas to improve the user level process of my idea?06:39
@rizenhow the wizard should work for the user06:39
PedersenMJIt will address it to a point. It *will* get people started more easily. The one failing that can still occur is the sheer size/felxibility of WebGUI. People could still balk, and I have no idea how to counter that.06:40
@rizenthe only way i can think of to counter that is to either scale back webgui, or hide it from them...and either way..that hurts webgui06:40
@rizenwebgui is a monster06:40
@rizenpeople should know that it's a monster06:41
@rizenbut they should also know that the monster is tamable06:41
+perlDreamerMaybe Gooey should be frowning?06:41
@rizenpd: you were just talking about getting off topic06:42
Radix-wrksecond: yup, sounds great06:42
+perlDreamerWe all agree that wG is big, and that makes it hard to setup.06:42
+perlDreamerIf we help them set it up, what do we do from there?06:42
+perlDreamerbooks, wikis, IRC, discussion boards....?06:43
Radix-wrkthird: ning.com has some nice ideas for how they set up their stuff, neat little ajax drag'n'drop kinda interface and custom colours.  Might be worth a gander.06:43
@rizenin the next few months we're going to have reams of documentation, and training options coming out of our ears. it's up to the community to provide free docs...the best we as developers can do is provide friendly tools to users06:44
Radix-wrkI found that decent.. trick is to make it not too long that it's impossible go through in one setting, and not too short that you don't feel like you had much say in it.06:44
PedersenMJHey, here's a truly stupid thought: Why aren't there links to plainblack support pages anywhere in (for instance) the admin console?06:44
@rizenwe put the advertising in the demo content06:44
@rizenand as far as the actual support boards, etc...not everyone has access to that stuff06:45
PedersenMJYes. But, for instance, why isn't there a link to wiki.webgui.org somewhere visible in a post-installation page, after all demo content would be removed?06:46
@rizenthere will be06:46
@rizenin 7.4 the help icon is going to take you to wiki06:46
@rizenno more help in 7.406:47
PedersenMJThat's what I meant when I asked about a support page link the admin console06:47
@rizenradix: just tried out ning.com06:50
@rizenyes something like that06:50
@rizenok...sounds like we're in agreement06:55
@rizenoh...and pd..we can't get rid of the help unless we can build the template builder06:55
@rizenwhich i'm still not 100% sure how to do06:55
@rizeni'm a little scared about that06:55
@rizenok well, i'm gone for the night. thanks for the feedback guys...much appreciated06:59
* rizen out06:59
+perlDreamerI thought for the template builder that we gutted RTE and added a pop-up form for adding template variables.07:16
PedersenMJOooh, there's something: Any chance that the list of macros is accessible from with webgui? Basically, add a popup form that shows a list of macros, too.07:17
+perlDreamerisn't there an RFE for that?07:23
+perlDreameron the RTE, which isn't available in the template editor now, but in other places the ^#; button will bring up a subset of macros.  I think.07:24
PedersenMJAh, didn't even look for an rfe for that. My bad.07:25
+perlDreamermaybe you should talk with someone who has commit access about implementing that particular RFE for 7.4 :)07:26
PedersenMJHeh. My idea for it is bigger than just a popup form. With all the info that is available in the online help (and which I assume will continue to be available in the wiki when 7.4 comes out), it should be possible to provide an "IDE" for the macros.07:29
+perlDreamerthat's a pretty big idea07:29
+perlDreamermuch bigger than populating the current macro selector with the current set of configured macros07:29
PedersenMJNot a full IDE, mind you. Just something that will provide the template and help for a given macro.07:30
+perlDreamerthe current macro editor does a subset of that, it inserts a sample usage for each macro selected07:31
PedersenMJThat's cool. I just haven't gotten to that point yet in my explorations of webgui.07:32
+perlDreamerbut it doesn't link to the help yet, and it doesn't show the complete, possible usage of the macro07:32
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pjesi4x XEON dual core 3.2ghz and yet WebGUI crushing at 4 in load10:01
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wgGuest62is there a way (a macro?) to get the URL of the current user's profile?13:38
wgGuest62ah trought the User iD macro I guess13:41
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ckotilI need some guidance on my group structure17:18
ckotilnvm. ive got it figured out.17:27
ckotili needed it setup so that my engineers can view and edit all of our internal documents, and then at the same time allow our customers to view the documents for their particular network.17:28
ckotilso i create a group for each network and set that to view. and set the able to edit option to group engineers17:28
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@rizenperlDreamer: are you here!!!18:49
+perlDreamerI'm here, I'm there, I'm everywhere18:52
+perlDreamerso beware18:52
+perlDreamerI gotta find the source for that quote18:52
+perlDreamerLike Ringo and Paul?19:03
ckotilyah, 'here, there and everywhere'19:04
ckotilhttp://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f5d_1172741350 squirrel catapult19:07
ckotilusing that import script i creatd 900+ workflows.....19:07
ckotilits gonna take about an hour to cook them all out19:07
ckotiland i didnt even grab the content :/19:08
* perlDreamer hopes for a telnetd attack today19:12
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ckotili have this pending version tag, and when i run spectre --status, it shows the workflow as waiting. but in the show running workflow screen, the workflow is shown as error.19:44
ckotilnot really a bug.19:44
ckotiljust wierd.19:44
ckotilhell yeah. the links even work for the faq o matic entries that are now article assets and page layouts20:29
+perlDreamersnapcount_ is good21:01
snapcount_I thought I was bad21:02
+perlDreamerbad is good21:02
+perlDreamerckotil likes the import script21:02
snapcount_I think the one he's using has been passed around a few times21:02
snapcount_JT modified it21:02
snapcount_then I modified it to not create 1500 copies of each image and file asset =)21:03
+perlDreamerthat's good21:07
+perlDreamerwe keep getting more of those undef Asset bugs21:46
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+perlDreamerwhat is this Dutch obsession with hair and appearance?21:58
+perlDreamerHairGrease, Dapper?21:58
rjacobsenquick question about webgui - is there a macro that will show a product price? and how would i type the macro (ie. ^Product(101,price) )... that one is not working so i need to know how to get the price of a product on my site with this macro and how it should be typed21:58
+perlDreamerThe product macro is what you want to use.  Be sure that you're giving it proper arguments.21:59
rjacobsenthats my problem - not sure the correct way to insert the arguments21:59
rjacobsenlike ^Product(101, ?)21:59
+perlDreamerthe online help will tell you what you need to know21:59
+perlDreamerbecome admin22:00
+perlDreamerturn admin on22:00
+perlDreamergo to the admin bar22:00
+perlDreamerselect admin console22:00
+perlDreamerchoose the help icon22:00
+perlDreamerselect the macro tab22:00
rjacobsendoes "price" go where the ? is?22:00
rjacobseni see variant.price22:00
+perlDreamerthat is a template variable22:00
rjacobsenbut dont know where to insert it22:00
+perlDreamernot a macro argument22:00
+perlDreameryour product is configured to use a template to display it22:01
+perlDreamerthat's where you'd use the variant.price variable22:01
rjacobseni just want to be able to call just the price of the particular product22:01
+perlDreameryou'd have to create a custom template to do that22:01
* perlDreamer heads to lunch22:01
rjacobsenlet me explain22:01
rjacobseni have a page on a shopping cart form that is thru paypal - instead of putting in a hardcoded price in the value, i want to put in a product/price macro that will put the price in for a particular product without having to change the code all the time22:03
rjacobsenso when i change the product price on the product page it will dynamically change the price in the form via the macro22:03
rjacobsenam i makin any sense>?22:04
ckotilyeah that will be possible.22:06
@preactionso you make a template that has one thing: "<tmpl_var variant.price>", and use that template's ID in your product macro22:06
ckotilmight have to write  acustom macro22:06
dapperedodoYou create a template for the product macro with only the <tmpl_var variant.price> in it. Then use the product macro with that template22:06
@preactiongreat minds think alike22:06
rjacobsenim real stupid when it comes to macros sorry - can u pls explain a little more?22:07
dapperedodoOH, and for perlDreamer: Dapper means brave in Dutch, nothing with appearance22:07
rjacobseni know how to use them...... but makin em is difficult22:08
@preactionrjacobsen: you dont have to make one. the second argument to ^Product(productId, templateId); allows you to add an arbitrary template for the product22:08
rjacobsenok so where do i make that template?22:08
@preactionwhere ever, you just need the ID22:09
rjacobsenthe in the product category?22:09
rjacobsenand the ID is the url?22:09
@preactionit doesn't even need a namespace22:09
@preactionno the ID is the ID22:09
@preactionit's the first item on the edit form after you've created it22:09
rjacobsenso i open the product category and click template (for new template) and name that?22:10
@preactionor put the template in the import node, whatevz22:10
rjacobseni just dont see an ID slot..... i see Title, Menu Title, URL, Namespace22:12
rjacobsenam i missing something?22:12
@preactionyou dont get to choose an ID, I said "after you've created it"22:13
@preactiononce it's created, edit it again, and the first item will be "Asset ID" or something similar22:13
@preactionit'll be a seemingly random series of 22 characters22:13
@preaction(random being the idea, so that there's no collision)22:13
rjacobseni see22:14
rjacobsenso i put that in the templateID22:14
@preactionso ^Product("sku","templateId");22:14
rjacobsenso it would be ^Product(101, C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ);22:14
@preactionprobably want to use quotes, but yes22:14
rjacobseni mean ^Product("101","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ");22:14
rjacobsennow i can call this into a script you think?22:15
@preactionperlbot tias22:16
perlbotTry It And See: the best way to learn if something works.22:16
rjacobsenill let ya know thanx VERY much for your help22:16
rjacobsenand THANKYOU for fixin the import packages22:16
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@preactionthat was all pd22:18
@preactionhe gets paid so well that he can work on wG for free, the git22:19
rjacobseni cant get this to work :(22:21
rjacobsenthe form code is in the body tag of the page.... and it wont let me pull in the macro22:22
rjacobseni try <input type="hidden" name="amount" value=^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ");> and <input type="hidden" name="amount" value='^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ");'> and still nothing22:22
rjacobsenwhen it is called it shows nothing22:23
rjacobsenpaypal keeps saying please enter a number greater than 022:23
@preactionare you sure it's supposed to be "variant.amount" and not something else? make sure the macro is working by putting a field you know work, like the sku or something22:24
rjacobsenim not sure how to test it as it goes to the paypal site22:25
rjacobsenthis is what inputs into paypal the price of the product22:25
@preactionmake an article that mimics the behavior? or maybe an article that just tries the macro?22:25
rjacobsenthe macro isnt working22:30
rjacobsenbecause i tried ^Page("title"); and it showed up fine in the article as the page title.... but the ^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); just shows the code22:31
@preactionproduct macro not enabled on your site? it isn't by default22:31
rjacobsenit may not be then22:32
rjacobsenhow do i enable it?22:32
@preactionadd it to the configuration file22:32
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rjacobsenjust add the ^Product("sku","templateID"); to it?22:33
@preactionlook in the configuration file, there's a section devoted to Macros, you should be able to see how to add one22:35
rjacobsenthat is awesome thank you22:41
rjacobsenok i enabled the product macro and started out by simply putting in ^Product("101"); and it says cannot find product even though there is a product 10123:00
dapperedodoDid you define the product in the commerce module?23:03
rjacobsenhow do i do that?23:05
dapperedodogo to the admin console - click 'Products'23:05
rjacobsenok there is none listed - wierd23:06
rjacobsenbut i have like 20 product pages23:06
dapperedodoAh, the product wobject is not connected to the commerce module23:06
rjacobsenso how can i make this work?23:06
dapperedodoThe product wobject was developed a long time ago23:06
dapperedodoadd the products also in the Products23:07
dapperedodoand it will work23:07
dapperedodoIt is a little more work23:07
rjacobsenone more question23:09
rjacobsenthe current template i created for my product page layout - can i use it for the products in the commerce?23:10
rjacobsenif so i can make it totally dynamic23:10
dapperedodoThey are not connected (yet???), but you can try to merge them23:18
dapperedodoThe commerce product has no options for extra features and so23:19
+perlDreamerapologies, dapperedodo23:19
+perlDreamerBut in English your nick is a well groomed extinct bird23:20
dapperedodoI just looked in the dictionary23:20
+perlDreamerAs long as we know that it's the Dutch MySQL powerhouse behind the name, you can call yourself anything you like.23:20
dapperedodoI am fine with it23:20
+perlDreamerSo you and your team were spun out from Procolix into an independent business?23:21
dapperedodoyes that's right23:22
dapperedodoWe do the hard programming stuf23:22
+perlDreamerIs that going well?23:22
dapperedodoProcoliX does the hosting stuf23:22
dapperedodoIt is going very well23:22
dapperedodoProgramming is much more fun then Hosting23:22
rjacobsenwhy when i click on the commerce button in the admin console does it just bring me back to the website page i was working on? it does not open any editing options for commerce23:22
dapperedodoand people want to pay for both, so we are both in business23:23
+perlDreamerOh, so you still  work with procolix23:23
dapperedodoYes, we are a great team, only the business split23:24
dapperedodoclicking the commerce button should get you the commerce settings23:24
rjacobsenit doesnt sir23:24
+perlDreamerrjacobsen, what's in your webgui.log file?23:25
rjacobsenit just brings me back to the web page i was working on before i opened the admin console23:25
dapperedodoI'm off now, see you later23:26
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rjacobsenwhat site is that i use to copy and paste again? to show you the error log?23:27
+perlDreamergooeybot: paste?23:27
gooeybotsomebody said paste was http://paste.biz23:27
+perlDreamerrjacobsen: I need to ask you some questions23:29
+perlDreamerdo you host your own server?23:30
rjacobsenyes we do23:30
+perlDreameryou have shell access?23:30
rjacobsenyes we do - or my boss does anyhow23:30
+perlDreamerhave you customized WebGUI?23:30
rjacobsendo you want to talk to him?23:30
rjacobsenyes we have quite a bit23:30
rjacobsenbut not much with the base code that i know of23:31
+perlDreamerwhat version of wG are you running?23:31
rjacobsensecond - let me get my boss in the irc channel23:31
+perlDreameryou're probably missing the Locale::US perl module23:32
+perlDreamerbut there are ways to test that23:32
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rjacobsenok sir23:36
rjacobsendwallisser is my boss and has shell access to webgui23:36
+perlDreamerdwalisser, what version of WebGUI are you running?23:37
+perlDreamerI would like you to run the testEnvironment script in the sbin directory23:37
dwalisserah, 7.3.11, needed to refresh23:37
+perlDreamerbe sure to use the switch to just print out a report23:38
+perlDreamerperl testEnvironment.pl --simpleReport23:38
+perlDreamerI'm guessing that you're missing a module, but this will tell us23:38
dwalisserIt says HTML::Template outdated, Text::Aspell not installed, Locale::US not installed23:40
+perlDreameryou need to install Locale::US23:40
+perlDreameronce you do that, you should be golden23:41
+perlDreamerand do update HTML::Template, the newer version fixes some long standing bugs with template variables that you will eventually run into23:41
dwalisserok, done. thanks for your help23:43
+perlDreamerno problem.23:44
+perlDreamerrjacobsen is a hard worker and coming up to speed well.23:44
+perlDreamerWebGUI has a steep learning curve23:44
rjacobseni really appreciate all your help23:46
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+perlDreamerYou're welcome.  Just remember that we've all been where you have been and hang in there.23:47
rjacobsenthis seems to fix the problem - although when i put in ^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); i get nothing23:47
+perlDreamerand if you have a chance, answer a question on the boards, post a wiki article or add a contrib.23:47
rjacobsenand i know i put the product in23:47
rjacobseni can put in ^Product("103"); and it shows the product..... but i use ^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); - which should show the product price only - it does not23:48
+perlDreamerthen you have a template problem23:48
rjacobsenthe C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ is the asset ID to the template i made with <tmpl_var variant.price> 23:49
+perlDreamervariant.price only exists inside of the variantLoop23:50
+perlDreamerjust nest it in a loop, and only have 1 variant23:50
rjacobsenlet me explain what i am trying to do sir23:50
+perlDreamerYou need to put this in a form to paypal23:50
+perlDreamer(I was lurking earlier)23:50
rjacobsenand send only the price23:50
+perlDreamerif your product only has 1 variant, then there will only be 1 price23:51
rjacobsenso how would i write the code on the template page?23:51
+perlDreamer<tmpl_loop variantLoop><tmpl_var variant.price></tmpl_loop>23:51
rjacobsenlet me try that23:52
+perlDreamermay I make a suggestion?23:52
rjacobsensure sir23:52
+perlDreamertake 30 minutes, and read through some of the online wG docs23:52
rjacobseni have already23:52
rjacobsena lot23:52
+perlDreamerall right23:52
+perlDreamerbecause knowing HTML::Template well is pretty important for getting stuff to work23:52
rjacobsenwhere can i find the read info on that? you have a url?23:53
+perlDreameruse that op on your site23:54
+perlDreamerpreaction: I need a bug consult. Do you have 10 minutes?23:56
+perlDreamerread this first: http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/clipboard-to-trash#_ih716rkIGoJIKR1-geK-g23:58
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+perlDreamerI think we can handle this one of 3 ways23:59
+perlDreamer1) Return an error saying that you can't delete uncommitted assets.23:59
+perlDreamer2) Delete it anyway, leaving the user with an empty, uncommitted version tag23:59
--- Day changed Sat Mar 03 2007
+perlDreamer3) Don't do anything00:00
@preactionwith the addition of "enter the revision and remove the revision of this asset manually"00:00
rjacobsenthank you for all your help and sorry if i sound like an idiot here - just tryin to do my job well and make this thing work very well...... before my introduction to webgui i used php-nuke and a LOT of html/database code..... so this is a whole new world........ but i do appreciate the help00:00
@preactioni think for now it'd be better to do 1) with instructions on how to continue, with the future being 2) once tmrfe gets involved00:00
+perlDreamerokay, I'll punt until we get tmrfe'd00:01
@preactionwait, the Admin is trying to remove from the system clipboard?00:01
@preactionthey should be allowed to do that imho00:01
+perlDreamerI think so too, but what about the empty version tag?00:01
+perlDreamerisn't that bad juju?00:02
@preactionmaybe empty trash should detect newly empty version tags and delete them00:02
@preactionin fact, imho, empty version tags should never exist00:02
+perlDreamerit sounds bad.00:02
@preactionto delete them? or to allow them?00:02
+perlDreamerto create empty ones via anymethod00:03
@preactioncreating a version tag should be a result of another method00:03
+perlDreamerI'm pretty sure the TrashClipboard workflow activity has this same bug, btw00:03
@preactionaddRevision or addChild00:03
+perlDreamerit is, but they're never automatically destroyed when emptied00:03
@preactiondo you think they should be? i do00:03
@preactionan empty version tag is useless00:04
+perlDreamerI agree with you, preaction00:04
+perlDreamerYou're preachin' to the choir00:04
@preactionsounds like something for the dev list00:04
+perlDreamerThe dev list? That's dead :)00:04
@preactionit's not dead so much as we haven't had anything to put there00:04
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@preactionsince when JT hangs out here, he's The Final Word00:04
@preactionwhich negates the necessity for discussion00:05
+perlDreameror immediate presence in IRC00:05
@preactioni can't think of any need for a version tag that has nothing in it yet, except when you do WebGUI::VersionTag->getWorking (which creates a tag to prepare for you to do a bunch of stuff under it, if there is no tag already)00:07
@preactionso we can't just remove them willy-nilly00:07
@preactioni think probably as each asset in the trash is deleted, check the tagId and see if we can delete the version tag as well00:08
@preactionthat way, too, in the system manage version tags, tags from long ago that have since had all their assets deleted will not show up00:09
@preactioni dunno, i'm over my head now00:09
rjacobsenhow can i add/remove stuff from the admin bar on the left side of the screen for users i do not want to see certain things and users i want to see more? example: secondary admin can see "products" but testuser(content manager) can not00:15
rjacobsenis there a way?00:15
rjacobsendo what? lol00:17
gooeybotask is Don't ask to ask, just ask. Don't repeat. If nobody answers, it probably means nobody knows. While you wait: Check the fine manual, check google, check the source, try different things on a demo site.00:17
@preactionsmart questions?00:17
gooeybotsmart questions is http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html or http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html00:17
@preactionthere's the one00:17
@preactionuiLevels are documented, the way you'll probably want to implement them is in the configuration file00:18
dwalissercan the config file override the ui level hard-coded in the wobject?00:22
@preactionyes it does00:22
@preactionyou can also override which groups are allowed to add which types of assets in the config file00:23
dwalisserhas anyone written a clever script that would allow me to setup one site config file the way I want and copy it to all the others (I have 15 that I want to be identical)00:26
dwalisserthe difference being the db user/password and dsn only00:27
dwalisseroh and the sitename00:27
dwalisserah and the uploadsPath00:27
dwalisserI think that covers it00:27
@preactionthe config files are JSON, so write your own. jsonToObj gives you a perl data structure, objToJson puts it back00:27
dwalissersounds like a simple script then00:28
+perlDreamerdwalisser, that's kind of what the WRE does00:29
+perlDreamerI think it has a template for all new sites it creates00:29
+perlDreamerconfig files, etc.00:29
+perlDreameralter the template, and you should be done.00:30
dwalisseryes, I've been using that "WebGUI.conf.original", downside is it is overwritten every time I upgrade00:30
+perlDreamermake a small SVN repository and check it in.00:31
+perlDreamerafter the upgrade, do a merge00:31
@preactionor keep a diff, and run the patch00:31
+perlDreamerman, preaction, we know this WebGUI stuff pretty well.  Maybe we should look into doing it as more than a hobby.00:35
@preactionno crap, maybe we should be getting paid for this00:36
+perlDreamerhow's the hacking coming?00:39
@preactionnot so bad00:39
@preactionis it just me, or is it impossible to get a truly deep structure out of the WebGUI::Config interface00:40
@preactionexample: workflow activities are a hash of array refs00:40
@preactioni suppose the interface is returning references, so i can work with that00:40
+perlDreamerI think this is going to be the highest subrev of wG ever00:41
+perlDreamerand we're not done yet00:41
@preactioni think we'll be going further than that before 7.400:41
@preactionbut i also think it's very good that we're doing so00:41
+perlDreamerme, too00:42
+perlDreamera very stable wG will make all of our lives easier00:42
@preactionwebgui has a lot of features, and people are clamoring for more, but bugs and a stable maintainable code base are far more important for the future00:42
@preactioni should RFE for "update skeletons to conform to WebGUI Best Practices"00:42
+perlDreamerDo you ever wonder about the features people _don't_ clamor for?00:43
+perlDreamerCould they be removed?00:43
@preactionsuch as the guided setup?00:43
@preactionor i18n?00:43
gooeyboti guess i18n is overwritten each upgrade00:43
@preactioni18n is a mixed bag, it's the reason some people choose webgui, but it's also just cruft for a lot of people00:43
+perlDreamerthey really want i18n content and UI00:43
+perlDreamerbut we only do half that00:43
@preactionwell, the UI we have control over, the content they have control over, make a section for each translation00:44
@preactioni mean, if they want multiple languages, they're going to have to do something00:45
@preactionif a scheduled workflow activity isSerial but is not a singleton, that means i can queue up multiple activities that will all run one at a time, correct?00:56
@preactioni mean, it's what the docs say00:56
+perlDreamerthat sounds right to me00:58
+perlDreamerhave a look at Session.pm, line 63801:06
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+perlDreamervar->get("adminOn") or var->isAdminOn01:08
+perlDreamerI've been trying to fix xtopher's dbSlave bug01:08
+perlDreamerit's weird01:08
+perlDreamerthat line is a bug, but it won't generate a DBI level connect error01:09
+perlDreamerhe says that the slave connections are all okay01:09
@preactionyou sure it's session.pm? not db.pm?01:11
@preactiondbSlave, i see01:12
@preactionwrong line01:12
@preactionit tries to connect to all three, that's probably bad01:19
+perlDreameralso, it tries to connect even if it is in adminMode and is going to use the main server anyway01:20
@preactionit's possible that when it tries to connect the second and third time, it negates the other connections, and then it randomly selects one of the negated connections01:20
@preactionthough i don't see how, but whatevz01:21
+perlDreamerhe's getting a connect error, during connection creation01:21
+perlDreamerI guess the way it's implemented now, it sprays across the servers during a page view, as opposed to randomly choosing a slave for an entire page view01:23
+perlDreamerI think the second would be safer01:23
@preactionmight even be faster01:24
+perlDreamerlike 3X faster01:24
@preactionwhere IS jt today? wonder what he's going to do about frank snaking my weekend01:26
@preactioni was supposed to go down to madison to play Supreme Commander in a little LAN party01:26
@preactionthe git01:26
+perlDreamerJT took the day off01:48
+perlDreamersaid something about setting up a LAN party to play SupCom with out of town guests or something01:49
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PedersenMJGood evening.05:57
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@preactionpossible good idea: a Dumb Container wobject to make wG dev easier. You could simply make a definition for a "Address Book Item" asset, sub-class the Dumb Container wobject to simply tell it that it should contain "Address Book Item" assets, and you have an application (in this case, an Address Book)07:06
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wgGuest41hi all16:17
wgGuest41Do you know which session timeout setting has plainblack.com? I need to find a compromise between usability and security16:18
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gooeybotbonjour, wgGuest7419:01
wgGuest74thanks :)19:01
wgGuest74I disconnected before19:01
wgGuest74did you read my session timeout question? :)19:02
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+perlDreamerthe deadline has passed00:08
+perlDreamerwe should change the title00:08
+perlDreamerthe pressure is now on snapcount_ and the other PB staff, who must wade through the dozens of00:08
+perlDreamerwiki entries submitted by the community00:08
+perlDreameror the dozens of pages submitted by PedersenMJ for his one entry00:09
+perlDreamerin any case, all of WebGUI-dom waits, breathlessly to see who will win the00:18
+perlDreamerlatest installment of this contest.00:18
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PedersenMJhello all06:36
+perlDreamerhey, man06:53
+perlDreamersay that three times fast06:56
PedersenMJIs that the gasoline dinosaur that also has a wall outlet in its tail?06:57
+perlDreameryup, that's him06:59
+perlDreamerThe Discovery Channel rocks07:00
+perlDreamerso far I've found two bugs tonight from writing API tests07:00
PedersenMJunit tests are an amazing thing for finding bugs.07:01
PedersenMJI always wind up pointing to my first experience with them as evidence of their strength. I had written up (in C) mime encode/decode routines. And had checked them over pretty thoroughly, done some tests, etc. I knew they worked. And then I formalized into unit tests, and found out that one of my decide routines was missing the return statement, making it broken.07:03
PedersenMJAnd I had "known" that it worked just fine for months.07:03
+perlDreamerthat sounds like a good lesson07:04
+perlDreamermy favorite one was "well, all the tests pass so the design is fine"07:04
+perlDreamerthat was before I learned about test coverage07:04
PedersenMJFor me, that was learning about writing *any* tests :)07:05
PedersenMJHowever, I know that I'm weak in some testing aspects. Okay, most of them. Any good websites on how to ensure test coverage?07:05
PedersenMJOr that at least discuss it?07:05
+perlDreamerI don't know of any.07:06
+perlDreamerI went to an OSCON presentation last year and became a believer07:06
+perlDreamerThe big testing things seem to be07:06
+perlDreamer1) Write them07:06
+perlDreamer0) Write Unit tests07:06
+perlDreamer1) Run your coverage on your unit tests07:07
+perlDreamer2) write integration tests07:07
PedersenMJThat's the part I'm missing.07:07
+perlDreamerintegration tests?  WebGUI doesn't have any yet either07:07
PedersenMJI'm working on a python script that will automate a *lot* of the verification of the state of the code and docs for another set of python scripts I'm working on.07:08
PedersenMJBut I have yet to even come close to finding a way to verify (programatically) that enough integration testing is being done.07:08
@preactionwhat do you mean by integration tests?07:09
+perlDreamerfor wG, it would be UI level tests07:09
+perlDreamerthings that test multiple things together in a sequence07:09
@preactionso WWW::Mechanize or a series of getPage()07:09
+perlDreamereach may work correctly, but may not call among themselves correctly07:09
PedersenMJFor me, integration tests would be testing the interaction of two modules.07:09
+perlDreamerthere may be some integration level testing now, but it's purely by accident07:10
+perlDreamerI'm looking forward to the new OSCON schedule coming out07:12
+perlDreamerpreaction: did you read my last dev post?  Am I askin' for beatin?07:17
@preactionwith wrapper around getLineage?07:18
@preactioni agree, actually. getLineage should be the standard method to get assets that you don't know the assetId for07:19
+perlDreamerit's just the potential performance hit,  maybe I should try to quantify it07:19
@preactioni prefer code maintainability over performance in most cases07:19
+perlDreamerI think it will save us tons of time down the road07:20
@preactioni mean, it's an extra little bit to do the logic to build the SQL, but the benefits of the encapsulation outweigh that imho07:20
+perlDreameryeah.  Change it in 1 place, and it works everywhere07:20
@preactionthen you can do optimization from inside the getLineage and everything gets the benefit07:20
+perlDreamerbut because it's more code, it may never reach the speed of the pure SQL query07:20
+perlDreamerhe'll weigh in, then we'll do it07:21
+perlDreamerthere are other, bigger bugs to worry about anyway07:21
@preactionbut getLineage will survive database schema changes, when pure SQL queries probably won't07:21
+perlDreamerI agree07:22
+perlDreamerI'm guessing that the problems we're seeing in the Clipboard also exist in the Trash, and in their Workflow Activities, too.07:24
+perlDreamerThe RTE has 4-6 semi-related open bugs07:24
+perlDreamerThe calendar has a new batch of bugs07:24
+perlDreamerplus there's the list we've been dragging around07:24
+perlDreamerIt's enough to make a dev nuts07:25
* perlDreamer screams07:25
+perlDreamershriek, shriek07:25
@preactioni'm lucky, i don't get to deal with core bugs, i'm doing client work ;)07:26
+perlDreamerhow's that coming?  Did you make your deadline?07:26
@preactionno, the client data migration tool screwed my dev box three times in a row07:27
@preactionand the migration tool takes about 3-4 hours to run07:27
@preactionso i started on other things while that was going07:27
+perlDreamerthat must be some set of data07:27
+perlDreamerthe whole webgui test set only takes 75 minutes to run on my laptop07:28
@preactioni figured out that there's a niche for a sort of "Dumb Container" wobject, that acts simply as a way to display a list of whatever asset is contained inside it07:28
@preactionthere's about 26,000 users07:28
@preactionthat's the main thing i need to migrate each time07:28
+perlDreamerFor the Dumb Container, it's like the Folder or CS?07:28
@preactionand every time i try to make a backup, so i don't have to re-run the migration07:28
@preactionit dies07:28
@preactionyou'd subclass the dumb container to tell it what asset it should allow, and then write the asset's getEditForm and getTemplateVars methods07:29
@preactioni've written three apps in a row now, that are basically dumb containers that make their sub-assets do all the work07:29
@preactionkind of like the Calendar07:30
+perlDreamerIt makes sense.07:30
@preactionit's more of a dev item, the dumb container itself has no value07:30
+perlDreamerIt may let us start to specialize the CS instead of making it so generic, which would make JT happy07:30
+perlDreamerHe hates that it's gotten so big07:30
+perlDreamerand slow07:30
@preactionwell, little value, it'd be possible to make it valuable by itself07:31
@preactionyeah, the CS could be a subclass of this, allowed to contain Threads07:33
@preactionit might obfuscate the code a bit07:33
+perlDreamerbut then you could have a specialized photo gallery, and a weblog07:33
+perlDreamerinstead of the monster CS that does everything07:34
@preactiontrue enough, the main code being in the Dumb Container07:34
+perlDreamerUser.pm now has 100% coverage, except for the deprecated identifier method07:36
+perlDreamerI found two bugs while writing tests for it tonight07:36
+perlDreamerand added a new method to SQL.pm, quickScalar07:36
@preactiongets the first element of the first row of a query?07:37
+perlDreamerthat was one of the bugs that I found in User.pm07:37
@preactionvery good idea, too much my ($result) = $db->quickArray("query");07:37
@preactionthere's a lot of that in the code07:37
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+perlDreamerplus, now you can do things that were broken like this:07:38
+perlDreamerif (!exists $self->{_profile}{$fieldName} && !$self->session->db->quickArray("SELECT COUNT(*) FROM userProfileField WHERE fieldName = ?", [$fieldName]))07:38
+perlDreamerthe array always had 1 element in it, so in scalar context that part of the conditional was always true07:38
@preactionyeah, i don't like the idea of that SQL query inside the IF conditional :p, cleaner to assign it to a var and test it afterward07:39
@preactionbut i see your point07:39
+perlDreamerprobably more PBP as well07:40
+perlDreamerI remember thinking about that and convincing myself that it was better to do it this way....07:40
+perlDreameroh, I remember07:41
+perlDreamerinside the conditional, it only does the query if the profile field doesn't exist07:41
@preactionif you put it as the first line inside the conditional, it's the same thing?07:42
+perlDreamervia nesting?  yes07:42
@preactionrather, after the ) {07:42
+perlDreamerI see what you mean, now07:43
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TheSeparatorLooks like Spectre on the Plainblack.com server is on strike...13:37
TheSeparatorno new posts appear13:41
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php-freakis this a xampp channel?10:11
Hinrikwhy would you think that?10:11
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Hinrikhow does one make a package?15:20
Hinrikthe only think I see is a "Make package?" question under the metadata tab with a yes/no radio button15:21
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pjesiwhat if you select @yes@15:54
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SDuensinGood morning!15:58
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Hinrikhm, when I try to export a package I created, it just gives me:16:11
HinrikThe requested URL /uploads/temp/JN/JNVATRUgdbd70zMSEkKpLw was not found on this server.16:11
Hinrikit's not a permission problem, this file simply wasn't created16:11
Hinrikif I create the package again, I get the same, just a different URL16:12
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@preactionHe's home sick18:01
snapcount_Hinrik: check your error logs, they will guide you to the answers you seek18:01
--- Log opened Mon Mar 05 18:59:09 2007
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+perlDreamergetAssetsInClipboard really wants to be a class method19:11
+perlDreamerIs anyone else able to use the newly updated Weather Asset?19:18
ckotilhavent tried.19:26
ckotili could check it out, if you want me to19:26
ckotilim not doing anything else really19:26
ckotiljust waiting for workflows to cook off19:26
+perlDreamerPlease give it a shot19:27
+perlDreamerI think there's a naming problem19:27
+perlDreamerIt has to be called Weather::Simple19:28
+perlDreamerbut it has to be installed as Weather::Com::Simple19:28
ckotili need to install htat.19:28
ckotilso what module am i installing ?19:28
+perlDreamerperl -MCPAN -e shell19:29
+perlDreamerforce install Weather::Com::Simple19:29
ckotilgot it19:29
+perlDreamerIt has a poorly written test that assumes that this year is 2005, that's why the force19:30
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ckotilis the new weather asset enabled by default?19:31
+perlDreamerI think so19:32
ckotilk. i need to register somewhere right?19:32
ckotilok, is there an article i can read to see what i gotta do?19:35
+perlDreamerjust become admin and turn on admin19:35
ckotilwell yeah19:35
+perlDreamerif you can deploy it, it will show up in the admin bar19:35
ckotili add it and commit and it disappears.19:36
ckotili didnt configure it in webgui.conf bc i dunno wtf to do19:36
+perlDreamerYou just add WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData to your assets19:36
+perlDreamerthat's all the config19:36
ckotili thought we had to register with some www to retrieve info19:36
ckotilwell im to the point where i add it from the new content bar19:37
+perlDreamerwhich WebGUI are you running?19:38
ckotili can move to .11 if you need me to. im working this on my dev box19:38
+perlDreameryeah, that would be good19:38
+perlDreamerthis new code was added in .1119:38
ckotilno weather data asset now19:41
ckotiland that line is in my conf19:41
snapcount_perlDreamer: thx for all the bug work you've been up to lately19:41
+perlDreameryou're welcome19:42
+perlDreamerI'm bored to tears at work19:42
+perlDreamerNo projects for 7 weeks now19:42
+perlDreamerwithout wG, I'd be a wreck19:42
snapcount_yay for us!19:42
+perlDreamerI have two more bug fixes coming in, now19:43
snapcount_you should apply to work for us19:43
snapcount_you have the time19:43
snapcount_might as well collect a check =D19:43
+perlDreamerOh no, I still get paid.  I'm salaried19:43
snapcount_I know19:43
snapcount_get paid twice19:43
snapcount_two full-time jobs... you could build your own spaceship19:44
+perlDreamerdoing outside consulting at $dayJob is strictly verboten19:44
+perlDreamerThey are ultra paranoid.19:44
+perlDreamerTo get internet access, you have to get a VP signature19:44
+perlDreamerI hacked this proxy onto our "allowed pool computer" for group-level internet access19:44
ckotilhehe. spaceship19:45
snapcount_well, I must eat to prevent myself from dying19:45
ckotilpd what now?19:50
+perlDreamerstart up wG, become Admin and turn on Admin19:50
+perlDreamerlook for the Weather Asset in the Admin Bar19:50
+perlDreamerand then look in WebGUI.log for an error about Asset::Wobject::WeatherData and getUiLevel19:51
ckotil2007/03/05 17:40:59 - ERROR - newt.webgui.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::error[183] - Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::StockData. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel" via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::StockData" at /gnoc/newt/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 520.19:51
+perlDreameryup, that's what I'm looking for19:52
ckotilthats for stock data tho.19:52
ckotillemme see if i can get a weather data19:52
ckotil2007/03/05 17:53:01 - ERROR - newt.webgui.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::error[183] - Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel" via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData" at /gnoc/newt/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 520.19:53
+perlDreamerand you installed Weather::Com, right?19:53
+perlDreamerthen I've got the right bug, then.19:54
+perlDreamerThanks for the double check, ckotil!19:54
ckotil? : webgui will strip out any invalid html that is contained within an article asset. does the wysiwig editor do this? or an internal wg funciton?20:07
ckotilbc since i imported all these articles. some of them have some trialing table shit inside them, and i would like for wg to strip that out.20:07
ckotilis there anyway i can automatically do this? or must i view each article in the wysiwig editor?20:07
+perlDreamerit's in WebGUI::Html, that's the internal function20:07
ckotilcan i execute a rebuild lineage? or anything like that to do this stripping automatically?20:08
+perlDreamerI think the stripping is done in realtime, during display20:08
+perlDreamerso the bad HTML is still in the db, but not shown20:08
ckotilseems to only strip when i click edit.20:08
ckotilmy engineers will bitch. and i dont wnat to have to go through each page and click edit, then save.20:09
+perlDreamerit may have to go through editSave routine for the Article20:11
+perlDreamerLet me get my phone reinstalled, and I'll check20:11
ckotilok. basically im wondering if there is a way to execute that without actually clicking edit/save20:11
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+perlDreamerckotil, you created Article assets via the import script?20:26
ckotili grabbed between a tbale tag20:26
ckotilso there are <td> and <tr> in the article20:26
ckotiland its f'ing up my site template20:26
ckotili use tbales in my site.20:26
+perlDreamerfrom what I've learned, I'd say the clean-up is from the RTE.20:27
+perlDreamerThe filter I mentioned is used in limited cases, like the Post and anywhere where a generic user is allowed to submit content.20:27
+perlDreamerYou could write a selenium script to do it20:28
ckotilso the wysiwig editor must be called.20:28
+perlDreamerbut then you'd have to install and learn selenium20:28
+perlDreamerIt lets you script your browser into automated tasks, usually for testing.20:28
ckotilnah. right now i just attached a n ote to the section. more of a disclaimer: warning: if this is f'ed up simply edit it and save20:29
@preactionthe filter is called in processPropertiesFromFormPost20:29
+perlDreamerwhich pPFFP is it called in?20:30
@preactionprobably the WebGUI::Asset one20:30
@preactionyou can specify a filter for any property20:31
+perlDreamerright, but there's no filter currently set up for the Article's HTMLArea20:31
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@preactionah, then i durno20:32
gooeybotperldreamer is bug empowered20:32
+perlDreamerahoy, dude20:32
@preactionno, gooeybot, perldreamer is <reply>20:32
gooeybotokay, preaction.20:32
@rizeni just like shouting out your name for no apparent reason20:32
+perlDreamerI thought it was because I'd fixed 9 bugs in 7.3.1220:33
* rizen reading about what we can do to fix the http caching problem once and for all20:35
+perlDreamerrizen: is xtopher command line savvy?20:35
@rizenhe's no unix admin....but he can make his way around pretty well20:35
+perlDreamerokay, I'm going to write a script to verify his dbSlaves.  I'm sure that he's got some connection problem that's outside of wG's domain.20:36
+perlDreamerwe're running out of bugs that I know how to fix20:37
+perlDreamerthere are 6 related to the RTE20:37
+perlDreamermaybe 720:37
+perlDreamer3 calendar bugs20:37
+perlDreamerand then all the historical bugs that we haven't fixed yet.20:37
@rizeni'm off of support for the next couple of weeks (except fridays) so that i can work on fixing bugs and coding the next wre20:38
@rizen1/3 of the bugs in the list are WRE related...so getting the new wre out will resolve those20:38
+perlDreamerWebGUI sets a new record this week.20:38
@rizenit does?20:38
+perlDreamerHighest subversion released.20:39
@rizenhopefully it will make it up to about 1620:39
@rizeni figure around then we'll be releasing 7.4.020:40
@rizencuz i'm hoping at about 7.3.1420:40
@rizenwe'll be able to finally branch20:40
+perlDreamerthat would be 3 more weeks20:40
+perlDreamersounds pretty doable20:40
+perlDreamerthe http caching thing, it's from mlamar?20:41
ckotilhttp://hastalasiesta.org/stuffs/nakkeTattis.jpg sfw20:41
@rizenyup and others20:41
@rizenit's constantly a question20:41
@rizento the best of my knowledge we've done what the W3C has said to do...but now i'm looking for things we missed, and loopholes20:42
+perlDreamerthere's a pretty stout test for Session/Http.  It should help verify any changes.20:43
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@rizenok peeps in working on fixing HTTP caching problems that people are experiencing i'm considering implementing something that i wanted to avoid20:57
@rizenand i'd like some feedback20:57
@rizenThe Problem: webgui 7.0 above uses W3C defined practices for setting HTTP cache headers20:57
@rizenwhich means that pages viewable by the public (or in our case the "visitor" user) should be cachable by cache servers20:58
@rizenand pages viewable by logged in users should not cache at all20:58
@rizenwe've done what the W3C recommends20:58
@rizenwhen a user visits a page as a visitor20:58
@rizenand then logs in and visits that page again20:59
@rizentheir browser and or cache server shows them the page as they saw it the first time20:59
@rizenbecause the first time it was supposed to be cached...and therefore it doesn't go back to the server20:59
@rizenthe browser / cache server has no idea that they've subsequently logged in and therefore the page should no longer be served from cache21:00
@rizenThe Solution(s):21:00
@rizenI see only 2 solutions to this problem:21:00
@rizena) We tell the cache servers and browsers never to cache webgui pages...but then we're increasing the load on the webgui server, but also increasing usability21:00
@rizenb) We tell the cache servers that they need to check back with webgui on every page request to see if it should be updated, and then if we see that the user is logged in, we tell them to request the new page, but...21:01
@rizenthis increases load on the server in that it must do both the revalidation, and then possibly a second request to load the page21:02
ckotilc) dont cache for logged in users21:02
ckotilor is that missing something with a) ?21:02
@rizenand the revalidation is almost as hard on the server as rendering a full page in the first place21:02
@rizenckotil...we already don't cache for logged in users21:02
ckotilok, so yeah.21:02
@rizenthat's what i said duriing the problem section21:02
@rizenthe problem isn't that we're caching for logged in users21:03
+perlDreamerc2) Don't do anything and tell people not to mix dynamic and static content on the same page?21:03
@rizenit's that when a logged in user visits the url of a page that was cached as a visitor...then they see the cahed page21:03
@rizenc2) even a login box (^L;) is dynamic content21:04
+perlDreamerso anything we do increases server load21:04
@rizenand so is doing something like ^a(^@););21:04
@rizenprobably not by much...because i don't think people revisit a page they've already been to very often anyway21:04
@rizenat least not during the cache timeout period21:05
@rizenbut..on some sites they might21:05
@rizenand this would then increase the load dramatically on some sites21:05
@rizenon sites like plainblack.com though, it wouldn't change much21:05
+perlDreamerbut on Len's soccer sites it would be awful21:05
@rizenactually no21:05
@rizenon len's soccer site they don't use webgui's caching anyway21:06
@rizenthey put squid in front of webgui21:06
@rizenso they set their own HTTP cache headers21:06
@rizenbut yeah...if they were using webgui...it would probably be aweful21:06
+perlDreamerbut if wG tells upstream cache servers not to cache it, would squid just act like a bypass then?21:06
+perlDreamerif so, then (b) is the only viable option21:07
@rizenwebgui says "don't cache me", but then squid sits in front of webgui and says "cache me"21:07
ckotilany js solutions?21:07
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@rizena and b are both viable21:07
@rizeni think that a is probably the better performer in our case though21:08
+perlDreamermlamar, you can get an IRC transcription from http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/2007-03.log21:08
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@rizenjoeri, you joined twice?21:09
+perlDreamerhe gets two votes21:09
mlamarI'm sorry not seeing the b option in the log ... what is it?21:09
[joeri]That's strange indeed21:09
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+perlDreamer(11:01:40) rizen: b) We tell the cache servers that they need to check back with webgui on every page request to see if it should be updated, and then if we see that the user is logged in, we tell them to request the new page, but...21:10
mlamarI was working on a fix to the login cache probelm that uses preventProxyCache like functionality only for a limited time after a user logs in21:10
mlamarRight now I've added code to Session:Url.pm to put in the "noCache=..." param if a user is logged in, which works well21:11
@rizenit's a nice idea, but it's a hack...i want a permanent solution. you're not the only person who has brought this up21:12
@rizenand it's not only related to logins21:12
mlamarBut then even visitors see a big performance hit with no caching ...21:13
mlamarin what other contexts does this problem come up?21:14
@rizennavigation is the biggest one21:14
@rizenon many sites even if there is no login box on the page21:15
@rizenthe navigation changes depending upon who is logged in21:15
@rizendue to page privileges21:15
@rizentherefore if you're served the "visitor" page21:15
@rizenyou won't have any of your private navigation21:15
mlamarvery similar to our problem actually21:15
@rizenbut there's all kinds of little things as well...like ^a(^@);); shows the wrong thing...and that confuses users21:16
@rizenmlamar: just so you know21:16
@rizenthere is a temporary solution to this21:16
@rizenjust turn on preventProxyCache21:17
@rizeni just want a permanent one21:17
mlamarWhy do you feel that adding a param to the url is a hack?21:17
@rizenbecause it's only a solution for that one problem21:17
@rizenit's solving a symptom21:18
@rizennot the actual problem21:18
mlamarIt's forcing the browse to refresh the page -- what problem does it not solve?21:18
@rizenit solves the problem directly after login21:18
@rizenbut not for the whole site21:18
@rizenfor example21:18
@rizenlet's say i go to plainblack.com21:19
@rizenand browse around as a visitor21:19
@rizenlooking at various message board posts21:19
@rizenwiki pages21:19
@rizenthen i log in21:19
@rizenusing your hack21:19
@rizenit works for the page directly after login21:19
@rizenbut if i visit any other page after that which i also visited as visitor21:19
@rizenthen the page goes back to the cached version21:19
mlamarahh, but my "hack" keeps the noCache param for any page after I've logged in21:20
mlamarIdeally it should only show once per page after login21:20
@rizenin addition...you're adding BS to the end of the URL just like preventProxyCache21:20
@rizenwhich is also a hack21:20
gooeybotokay, rizen.21:20
mlamarto implement that we'd need to add some sort of per-page tracking mechinism21:20
@rizenthe problem is in the cache control headers21:20
@rizenand i want to fix it in the cache control headers21:20
@rizenany other solution is irrelevant as far as i'm concerned21:21
mlamarwell if you can fix it in the cache control headers without significantly impacting performance, then that's great21:22
mlamarif you can't, I'd rather have junk in my urls21:22
@rizenand you can...as you've already said21:22
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@rizenbut i don't want junk in my urls21:22
mlamaryes, but I'm hacking the core, which I don't want to do21:22
@rizenand neither do a lot of my clients...as expressed in their angry emails and support posts21:23
@rizenwhen i tell them to turn on prevent proxy cache21:23
mlamarwell it should be a feature that you control in the conf file21:23
mlamarbtw, when I use the prevent proxy cache it breaks my macros due to the comma in the middle of the param21:24
mlamarI changed my code to make that a colon instead -- any reason for the comma?21:24
wgGuest67well I'm not behind a proxy and still I have to reload webgui pages most of the time...21:24
wgGuest67to display that I'm logged in as an example21:25
mlamaryes, that is the problem we are discussing21:25
wgGuest67oh... There will be a fix?21:25
@rizenmlamar: yes because it's supposed to be a comma. it's not a name value pair21:25
@rizenIf you use macros like ^Extras(some/thing.jpg); or ^/(page-url-goes-here);21:26
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@rizeninstead of ^Extras;some/thing.jpg21:26
@rizenand ^/;page-url-goes-here21:26
@rizenthen it will work as advertised21:26
@rizenwhat you've done by changing it into a comma is21:27
@rizencreated another name value pair, with only a name and no value21:27
@rizenyou have21:28
@rizenwhich is21:28
@rizennoCache = 0000000021:28
@rizen0000 = 21:28
@rizentwo separate fields21:28
mlamarnot a semi-colon, just a colon   noCache=392:117312012721:28
@rizenoh...sorry, misread21:29
@rizencolon is just fine21:29
mlamaranyway, I don't care what the character is, as long as it doesn't kill my macros21:29
@rizeni'll change it to a colon in the code then21:29
wgGuest67there will be a fix about the caching issue?21:30
mlamarI gotta go to a lunch meeting, so I'm signing off.  Let me know what you decide about the cache problem. -- good to talk to you all.21:30
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wgGuest67also in this post http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/trashing-uncommitted-assets-in-the-clipboard/521:31
wgGuest67there is On Saturday 03 March 2007 16:15, jt@plainblack.com wrote:21:31
wgGuest67isn't this bad for spam/security?21:32
@rizenmax, why do you keep coming back?21:32
wgGuest67cause I made the transition to WebGUI for my website21:33
@rizenbut you hate webgui, and you hate me21:33
wgGuest67no I don't21:34
@rizenyou've clearly shown your disgust for both of us, and i might mention doug and a few other people as well in your posts21:34
wgGuest67I think you're not the best guy in the world.. But who's perfect21:34
wgGuest67Indeed, I'm not the only one that said those kind of things21:34
wgGuest67glaven.org anyone?21:35
@rizenbut he left webgui behind21:35
@rizenhe doesn't keep coming back21:35
wgGuest67Because he left the company that was using webgui21:35
@rizenand he was also pissed because he was fired from the job 21:36
@rizenthat was using webgui21:36
wgGuest67and in the comments other people agree21:36
@rizenyeah...but they don't keep coming back21:36
wgGuest67btw I don't want to start another flame, unlike you seem to do21:36
@rizenthat's the key here21:36
@rizeni do want to start another flame, because you don't ask questions...you demand answers21:36
@rizenthat's the difference between you and 90% of the other users in the webgui21:37
gooeyboti think community is far more diverse than irc would have you believe21:37
@rizeni'm not talking about irc21:37
wgGuest67Nope I just ask for questions21:37
@rizeni'm talking about people on support boards, forums, mailing lists, bug reports, client phone calls, etc21:37
wgGuest67wait I have a video I recently saw I want to recommend you. Wanna see it?21:38
@rizenif i say no will you send it anyway?21:38
wgGuest67it's a cool video (a conference) believe me21:38
@rizenthe answers to your questions above are: yes, and no, in that order21:39
wgGuest67It's a bit long but it's worth it. The part I refer to anyway is about in the middle21:39
pjesiis it not kind of extra overhead to import ical feed to other calendar assets on the same site?21:39
wgGuest67that guys is what you call a real Pro21:40
wgGuest67and he says a lot of the things I said21:40
wgGuest67about open source communities, feedback, etc.21:40
wgGuest67guys = guy21:41
@rizenpjesi: it's overhead from a data storage point of view..but from a display processing point of view (which is 90% of the work), it's less21:41
pjesirizen: ok but do I need some cronjob to get the thing imported?21:43
@rizenthe workflow engine will do it for you21:43
wgGuest67about my questions: 1. that's great. 2. why no? There's an email address that spam robots can easily crawl21:43
pjesiI added the feed earlier today but it does not show up21:44
@rizenpjesi: check to see which of the maintenance workflows it's part of21:45
@rizeni don't remember if it's daily or hourly21:45
+perlDreamerpjesi: I think you have to make sure that the CalendarUpdateFeeds workflow activity is being run.21:45
pjesiI see21:46
pjesinever touched the workflows21:46
pjesiit would be nice to have a import button on the feed tab21:47
+perlDreamerit looks like it is in Hourly Maintenance Tasks21:47
@rizenyup that would be good21:47
@rizenyou know where the rfe list is?21:47
pjesiI think so21:48
* perlDreamer goes running. be back later21:48
wgGuest67that's the same bug I reported here more than 10 days ago I guess21:49
pjesiit is not a bug21:50
@rizenmax, that's another thing about you...if you want us to be responsive to you, then you need to understand that not everything is a bug21:50
@rizenwith you...if it's not how you want it to be, it's a bug21:50
@rizenbut that's not how it is21:50
wgGuest67Not at all... Probably I misread now. I was referring to the feeds not being updated by the workflow21:51
wgGuest67you're discussing about something different?21:51
@rizenmy comment was made in general21:51
@rizennot about that specific thing21:51
wgGuest67whatever, if now I'm right where's the deal?21:52
@rizenand finally...you argue every last thing21:52
wgGuest67we start again...21:52
wgGuest67so what about that video and my last question?21:52
@rizenplease understand that as far as i'm concerned...YOU (and only you) are NOT welcome here21:52
wgGuest67that's some news21:53
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wgGuest67the glaven.org guy is right when he says: you might be CEO of big company X, but plainblack staff will always be rude21:54
-!- mode/#webgui [+b *!*@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] by snapcount21:54
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SDuensinWho was that twit?21:57
* SDuensin quite likes Plain Black.21:58
@rizenhis name is maxscience21:58
@rizenhe constantly badmouths me, my staff, my company, and webgui to all who will listen21:58
@rizenbut also uses webgui21:58
SDuensinGotta love that.21:59
@rizenbecause is in his words (paraphrasing) "webgui is a pile of crap, but it's the best pile of crap out there"21:59
@rizenpeople can bad mouth me, plain black, and webgui all they want. we're public figures and so we'll get critics...but when they start bad mouthing my peeps...that's when it has gone so far22:00
@rizenhe's the only person i've ever asked to leave the community22:00
@rizenthat was 6 months ago. he keeps coming back every couple of months, but with a new name22:01
@snapcountwell, before he comes back in here he'll have to change IP addresses22:02
@snapcountI tried so hard with that guy22:02
@snapcountoh well, can't save 'em all22:03
@rizeni wish i knew his real name and address, i'd put an explicit exclusion in the license file just for him22:06
SDuensinwhois his domain22:06
pjesithen you could not license it as GPL22:07
pjesi(I think)22:07
@rizenno one knows his name22:07
@rizeni mean domain name22:07
@rizenhis email address is gmail22:07
@rizenand his ip address is some residental network in italy22:07
@snapcountI have absolutely no problem banning the entire country of Italy =D22:21
@snapcountI'm kidding22:21
SDuensinGive the boot the boot!22:21
ckotilSDuensin: clever22:49
@rizeni'm talking to my data entry person who's going to move all the help into the wiki 23:06
@rizendo you think all the macros should be moved as well?23:06
gooeybotwell, wiki is http://wiki.webgui.org or yet another place to get help with WebGUI23:06
@rizeni think they should be23:06
+perlDreamerI'd like to make an argument against doing that, but it's not a strong one23:11
@snapcountI OBJECT23:11
+perlDreamerWe're leaving things in that could be used for dynamic help, like fields and template variables.23:11
@snapcountsorry... I get overly excited sometimes23:11
+perlDreamerI could see having pop-up macro help as well23:11
+perlDreamerarguments and a 1-liner23:11
+perlDreamersnapcount, when you object, you need to instance first :)23:12
SDuensinMaybe he's static?23:12
+perlDreamerwhere did he go?23:13
gooeyboti heard rizen was a prolific php writer don't you know23:13
+perlDreamerwhat do you think about my counter argument about macros?23:13
@rizenfor now i'm going to have her copy over the macro pages23:13
@rizeni think that even if we do decide to add macros to the template editor, that we'll have to create new help for the macros23:14
+perlDreamerthat makes sense23:14
@rizencuz they don't fit the mould of the template variables23:14
@snapcountmy $objection = Roys::Simple::Mind->new("dumby")->objection("Are you saying that an African Swallow carried those coconuts...");23:14
@snapcountyou purged my brain23:15
+MrHairgreasewhat brauin?23:15
@rizenno...you created an objection object23:15
@snapcountthat was a Roys::Simple::Mind object you destroyed23:15
@rizenread your code again23:15
@snapcountoh  your right23:15
@snapcountdamn you23:15
@rizenyour code doesn't return a roy's simple brain object23:15
@rizeninstead, it passes it forward into a method23:15
@rizenwhich appears to create a reference to an objection23:16
@rizenwhich i assumed was an object23:16
@rizenthe reference could have just been a reference id23:16
@rizenbut if that's the case, then you misnamed the variable23:16
@snapcountthe people rest your honor23:16
+perlDreamernice site, ckotil23:17
+perlDreamerI can't believe that max complained that it would take up to an hour to fetch an ical feed.23:17
@snapcount<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Namo WebEditor v2.00">23:17
@snapcountthat should say WebGUI ckotil 23:17
ckotilheh. 23:18
ckotilnot my site23:18
@snapcountbut legos rule23:18
ckotilmy site does say webgui now. http://blizzie.net23:18
+perlDreamersnapcount: have you done any motors work?  servos, etc.?23:18
@rizenroy: xtopher want's to make the dbslave bug a priority request23:18
@rizenwhich means it's now your priority request since you're on support duty23:19
+perlDreamerI finished that dbSlave checking script, btw23:19
+perlDreamerit may help with that23:19
+perlDreamerI'll attach it to the bug.23:19
+MrHairgreasei read:"Citizenship: We work on restricted commercial and Federal projects, so we can only accept applications from full United States citizens."23:20
+MrHairgreasedoes that mean you're not trying to hire eurotrash anymore =)23:21
+MrHairgreaseofcourse i meant fashionable eurotrash =)23:21
+perlDreamerhighly educated, fashionable, eurotrash23:22
+MrHairgreaseyou must be drunk23:23
+MrHairgreaseobviously you mean highly educated, fashionable, eurotrash with intense sex-appeal23:23
+perlDreamerPersonally, I don't find you that sexy23:23
+perlDreamerIt's your genetic condition23:24
+MrHairgreasethat's because you're not a trashy european23:24
+perlDreamerGet rid of that nasty Y chromosome, and we could talk23:24
+MrHairgreaseand who said I needed a job23:24
+MrHairgreaseno no23:24
+MrHairgreasei like my chromosomes just where they are23:24
@rizenMrHairGrease...of course not23:26
@rizenit doesn't mean we can't use contractors from anywhere we want23:26
@rizenit just means that contractors (and employees) can't be non-citizens for the restricted projects23:27
@rizenso for all the other projects they can be23:27
+MrHairgreasei figured 23:27
@rizenthe thing is, that this new employee's job will be working on these restricted projects about 90% of the time23:28
+MrHairgreasei just saw an opportunity to use the eufemism eurotrash23:28
@rizeni c23:28
@rizenuse away...i can't stand eurotrash anyway23:28
@rizenespecially  highly educated, fashionable, eurotrash with intense sex-appeal23:28
+MrHairgreaseis this another fy rizen moment23:29
@rizenisn't it always?23:29
+MrHairgreaseor is it actually23:29
+MrHairgreasea compliment23:29
+MrHairgreasei think it is the latter23:29
+MrHairgreaseif you say so =)23:29
@snapcountrizen: can you test dbslaves using the same mysql server so long as it is a seperate database?23:30
@snapcountthat should work...23:30
@rizendon't see why not23:31
@snapcountok... just wanted to make sure it wouldn't trigger some kind of strange voodoo23:31
@rizeneven with the same database it should work...but that may not then show the errir23:31
+perlDreamersnapcount: I just posted that script for testing db slave connections23:32
@snapcounthow do I know I can trust you... aren't you from the west coast?23:32
@rizenyeah, he's one of those west coast conservative liberal hippy nazi's23:35
+perlDreamerJust call me moonunit, and pass the organic hummus and rice cakes, please23:37
+perlDreamerit's in the contrib's section23:37
@rizenno..that's only showing your hippy side23:37
@rizenwhat about your nazi side23:37
@rizenand you put nothing about your conservative and liberal sides in there23:38
@rizeni think to define perlDreamer, you must state that he he somewhere between communism and fascism on the conservative/liberal scale of things23:38
@snapcountwell said23:39
+perlDreamerand all my scripts are above board23:40
+perlDreamerthe only time to be worried is when I tell you to do a force install via the CPAN module23:40
+perlDreamer...that's when I sneak in the trojan code23:40
@rizencommunism > socialsim > liberal democracy > conservative democracy > fascism > theocracy23:40
+perlDreameryou should see the way some people run their network operations facilities23:40
+perlDreamermessy, messy, messy23:40
+perlDreamerMrHairGrease: why are your neighbors rioting over in Denmark?23:42
@rizenok, i think i have a solution to the caching problem that won't be too heavy23:46
@rizenif we set      Cache-Control: must-revalidate23:47
@rizenin all of our headers23:47
@rizenthe browser will then send a request back to webgui on each page view that contains:23:47
@rizenIf-Modified-Since: Sun, 14 May 2006 21:35:14 GMT23:47
@rizenWe can check for the existence of the If-Modified-Since variable23:47
@rizenand also to see if the user is logged in23:48
@rizenif they are not logged in, then we return a "304 Not Modified" response23:48
@rizenIf they are logged in, we return the content of the page23:48
@rizenby doing that simple check..it's a little harder on the server (than not checking at all) because it still has to instanciate the session23:49
@rizenbut it's not nearly so hard as actually instanciating an asset23:49
@rizento see if it has been modified23:49
@rizenand because we short circuit the request23:50
@rizenwe can either send back content (if the user is logged in), or only send back that HTTP header (if they aren't logged in)23:50
+perlDreamerit sounds like all the changes will be localized to the mod_perl handler23:50
+perlDreamerand maybe Session/Http23:51
@rizeni think so23:51
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@rizencan anyone poke holes in that plan?23:52
@rizensee any downsides?23:52
+perlDreamerhas anyone ever checked to see how the other CMS'es handle it?23:55
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--- Day changed Tue Mar 06 2007
+MrHairgreaserizen: sounds good00:01
+MrHairgreaseperldreamer: what neighbors and which riots00:01
@rizeni looked at a handful00:02
@rizenand almost none of them implement cache control at all00:02
@rizenthe only one i found that does it, is Drupal, and then only by manually patching the system via instructions in a mailing list post00:02
@rizenwe seem to be the only ones following the W3's rules for cache control headers00:03
@rizenwhich happen to be the RFC for the HTTP 1.1 protocol too00:03
@rizena couple of the other ones also mention enabling it using Apache directives...but they have no direct control over it in the code00:04
@rizenthey just either force it on/off for certain file types, or serverwide00:04
@rizeni also found an article about cache control that said that most CMS's don't implement cache control because the larger they are the harder it is to implement00:05
@rizenwhich seems to back up what i found when ii looked at a few others00:05
+perlDreamerI was just thinking we should make sure we aren't missing something else easy.00:05
+perlDreamerThe idea sounds good to me.00:05
@rizenwell the "easy" solution is to just not implement cache control00:06
@rizenthat seems to be the approach everyone else takes00:06
+perlDreamerplus, fully functional W3C HTTP compliance might be another good selling point for wG.00:06
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@rizenok...since there don't seem to be any dissenting opinions, i'm going to go ahead and implement this00:07
@rizeni'll of course test before committing to make sure it does what i think it's going to do00:07
@rizeni set up HTTP::Proxy to monitor the headers between my dev server and my browser to make sure they're sending the right things back and forth00:08
* perlDreamer gets sent to the showers00:09
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+perlDreamerIt's a great idea!01:00
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Radix-wrkrizen: Seems unfair if WebGUI gets rejected and yet Drupal/Plone/etc can all participate.  Any reason as to why it was rejected for GSOC in the past?02:42
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Radix-wrk"Violence of the Lambs"04:14
@preactionthat actually looks pretty decent04:31
@preactionfor a B-movie horror-style04:31
streamlinespreactin, several days ago you pointed me to mod_rewrite. Indeed black magic. My ssl problem at the time turned out to be a typo in a conf file. Now however....04:41
streamlinesNow I've got a new question: similar topic. Seen this asked over and over in the forums ...I just need a clue to go on....not asking for support04:42
streamlinesWhen a page is set to "encrypt content", which rewrite hooks/directives best to use to make sure that....04:43
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streamlinesnon-https pages navigated to subsequently are not served https04:44
streamlinesJust using default WG setups, navs, etc. The goal is to have only pages under /mymenuitem server https. But seems like matching /mymenuitem would be cheating. 04:46
streamlineshow best to do this for any/all pages flagged in WG admin as "encrypt content?"04:46
streamlinessorry typo above:  should read "pages under /mymenuitem *SERVED* https"?04:47
@preactionthe reason that the encrypt content flag doesn't work with the WRE is because HTTPS is only handled by the proxy, the proxy does an unencrypted request to the mod_perl instance to get the page's data04:47
@preactionso to fix that bug, you'd have to find a way to figure out if any part of the request is being served HTTPS04:48
@preactionor rather, that everything up to and including the mod_proxy request is being served HTTPS04:48
@preactionin other words: you're going to probably have to do what you want on a per-case basis04:49
@preactioni believe as part of the 0.8 cycle of WRE development will be a web-based GUI configuration tool, as part of that tool might a "Force SSL for these pages" utility04:50
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+perlDreamerstupid wireless notebook card04:50
streamlinesI read that. what about a rewrite rule using some env vars like referrer, is subreq, etc? no one's done that?04:50
@preactionreferer isn't changed by the proxy? as for others, if you can find a way to fix that bug, i'm sure the community would be very grateful04:51
streamlinesI'm not sure if this is good ettiquete to ask, but a usere here several days ago was working in the same direction. cap10morgan, I racall. 04:52
streamlinesis he/she a regular here, or maybe has an ID on the lists I can contact thru?04:52
+perlDreamercap10morgan posts on the boards sometimes04:53
streamlinesand the only way to contact is to post back to the board? 04:53
streamlinesI mean, would it make sens to reply to a thread several months old? 04:54
@preactionit's still relevant, it's still a bug04:54
streamlinesI'm still all very new at the community thing. 04:54
+perlDreamerthe IRC logger hasn't caught up yet, what's the bug?04:54
+perlDreamerstreamlines: you're doing fine.  If you're out of line, we'll let you know04:54
@preactionWRE doesn't work with WebGUI's "Force Encrypt" toggle on a page04:54
streamlinesOK. thanks. 04:54
+perlDreameroh, that's a good one.04:54
+perlDreameroffhand, I'd say IRC rule #1 is don't bash people.04:55
+perlDreamerrule #2 would be understand that not everything that you think is a bug is a bug04:55
+perlDreamerrule #3 would be just ask, and don't worry04:55
streamlinesBut that's not really what I'm hoping to address. I'm not sure Id call that a bug, in that I believe that is quite advanced....and probably can be accomplished with someone wh oknows mod_rewrie/mod_proxy well.04:55
streamlinesfunny you just said rule 2 I wasn't readling (have to look at keyboard) ....04:56
streamlines and I was ack'ing that I don't really think its a bug.04:56
streamlinesit just takes above-average coding/config to get by.04:56
+perlDreamerin any case, you did the right thing.04:57
+perlDreamerI'd agree with preaction that it's a WRE bug04:57
+perlDreamersince wG works one way stand-alone, and another way with the WRE04:57
+perlDreamerand if you can fix it, all the better.04:57
@preactioni think it might be a WebGUI bug. in essence, force encrypt would not work with any sort of advanced proxy system04:57
@preactionsince it tries to detect from the environment, iirc04:58
streamlinesyes, yes, of course you guys define waht bugs are...I'm still monkeying aroud with external compenents....after readin through apache docs, and googling for some time I KNOW i can use rewrite rules to get what I want...I just not sure how. 04:59
streamlineswhat you mean iirc, preaction?04:59
@preactionperlbot iirc04:59
perlbotIf I Remember Correctly04:59
streamlinesaha. 05:00
+perlDreamerbe back in 30, have to put kids to bed05:00
streamlinesperlbot snack05:00
@preactionbotsnack, perlbot05:00
perlbotOMG thank youuuuuu!! :-)!!05:00
@preactionthat one changes every time i check it05:00
@preactionperlbot relearn botsnack as I'm not your prank monkey05:00
perlbotrelearned entry for botsnack05:00
streamlines:-) memory bad. 05:00
streamlinesI thought you had to "address" him ie call perlbot first!05:01
@preactionyou can05:01
@preactionperlbot botsnack05:01
perlbotI'm not your prank monkey05:01
@preactionor you can postfix it05:01
@preactionhello, perlbot05:01
perlbothello preaction05:01
streamlinesbut not midsentence, must end or begin eith "perlbot"05:01
@preactionanyway: forcing HTTPS using Rewrite Rules05:01
streamlinesI've forced the https part...05:02
streamlinesI just now want to force back to http coming from https.05:02
@preactionthe usual answer to that is "it's not bad to keep people in https"05:03
@preactionotherwise, in your <VirtualHost *:443>, add a RewriteCond !^/ssl_page # followed by: RewriteRule /(.+) http://yourhost.com/$1 [R,L]05:04
@preactionbasically: your RewriteCond says "Only run the next RewriteRule if this is true, the condition being the user is NOT in the part of the site you designated as SSL"05:04
streamlinesI've heard thatRE: ssl not bad. and whatif site is be very high traffic? i.e. top hit on google05:05
@preactionif you're being slashdotted, you probably will have bigger problems than the performance hit for the SSL encrypt/decrypt routines05:05
streamlinesYes. I saw the "odd" but logical sequence of processing with the rewrite conds05:05
@preactionbut still, the above thing (or something similar) should work05:05
@preactionif you want more portions to be allowed SSL, just add [OR] to the end of the RewriteCond, and add another RewriteCond05:06
Radix-wrkWe're using SSL with the WRE, but we prettymuch use SSL for everything from the point the user logs in05:06
@preactionlook at the Apache2.0 docs for more information on that05:06
Radix-wrkI just set up SSL in the modproxy config05:07
@preactionhad a client do, i swear, 40 different RewriteCond/RewriteRule pairs, where the RewriteRule was exactly the same for each different RewriteCond. I laughed05:07
Radix-wrkand ticking the box in webgui to use encrypted login worked fine05:07
streamlinesI wasn't using a REwrite cond yet. I thought that https:// prefix would automatically send to vhost:443, so I figured I wasn't needing a cond (since I was happily arriving at my https pages "that were told to encrypt content"05:08
Radix-wrkour rewrites are much the same for the vhost:443 as they are for vhost:8005:09
streamlinesYEs, my :80 and :443 look almost identical. What about a ProxyPassRevers after to rewrite rule? essential to get back to http?05:10
Radix-wrkProxyPassRevers?  not ever heard of that05:11
@preactionstreamlines: maybe put your config in a pastebin?05:11
gooeyboti guess pastebin is magic 8ball says "Try again"05:11
gooeybotpastebin is probably http://pastebin.ca05:11
streamlinessorry bad typing. I'll find a pastebin. 05:12
streamlinesha. pastebin: http://www.pastebin.ca/38311005:15
Radix-wrkbout to head off for lunch - but my (working) SSL config is here: http://pastebin.ca/383108 - it's not perfect as the user always stays in SSL after logging in, but it works for us.05:16
streamlinesThansks Radix-wrk. Enjoy. that's exactly what mine does. I just wish it wouldn't. If you folks know how to get round this05:17
streamlinesI mean behavior is identical...I haven't lokad at your pastebin yet. 05:17
Radix-wrkyup.. yours looks the same as mine.. just not the proxypassreverse bit05:18
streamlinesFRom my reading, one can use ProxyPAss (from mod_proxy) to rev proxy, but mod_rewite rules can do the same but more powerfule. 05:19
streamlinesBut each time I see a proxy pass (and in many cases when I see a rewrte intended to proxy) I see a correspondey Revers rule. Maybe I'm googling on the wrong planet :-)05:20
streamlinesie. proxypass roughtly equiv. Rewriterule for proxy. Examples that uses either are usually followed by a "Reverse" rule.05:21
streamlinesI'll find a link.05:21
@preactionlooks like PPR is a good idea, just seems superfluous in the WRE setup. I'll admit that i'm far outside my expertise on this one05:23
streamlinesso you mean I've been studying RFC's for nothing? :-)05:24
streamlinesjust clowing. =)05:24
@preactionnot for nothing: knowledge is knowledge :p05:24
@preactionlooks like PPR just does some magic if the proxied site happens to send Redirect responses or otherwise05:25
streamlinesand I thought a reverse proxy is a reverse proxy. YOu see how the one at the lenya page uses PPR?05:25
streamlinesmmm....I wish I could read/write regexps like you guys. 05:25
@preactionthe trick is to take it slow, very slow05:26
@preactionalso keep a good docs next to you05:27
@preactionperlbot perlretut05:27
perlbotPerl regular expressions tutorial - http://perldoc.perl.org/perlretut.html05:27
@preactionperlbot perlre05:27
perlbotPerl regular expressions - http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.8.0/pod/perlre.html05:27
streamlinesKinda like reading music. 05:30
streamlinesTakes time to get into it. 05:30
@preactionexactly. it's a lot of information packed into a very very small area05:30
streamlinesI was hoping WG would be the consultants rapid-deploy swiss army knoife for dozens of sites. As the electric guitar, WG rocks. 05:32
@preactiongive it time, for this client project i wrote about a half-dozen completely divergent applications in the span of a month05:36
streamlinesI always regretted not taking time to sweat thru the guitar lessons and to let the fingertips bleed thru practice. Been busy. M y problem is I don't really have the time. I've got  some funds tho. 05:36
streamlinesAlthough maybe that won't even help, in this case? I mean, sounds like its a bug on the horizon to be fixed? 05:37
@preactionthe force SSL thing?05:37
@preactioni think it's going to be supplanted by the WRE's new GUI admin thing. or something05:38
streamlinesyes. Not just force, mind you. I got SSL working instantly when I tole WG encrypt content.05:38
streamlinesI'm trying to setup a store--it not the login time that matters. Its the parts when users browse thru and add stuff to cart etc. 05:39
@preactionreally only the checkout part when they enter their credit card matters, and that's an operation, meaning they could potentially access it from any page they wanted05:39
@preactiontry: http://yoursite.com/?op=checkout05:40
streamlinesyes. except perception is key. You've seen the new "green titelbar ssl extended validation thing? 05:40
streamlinesfor most users, there' isnt any more enryption---really.05:41
streamlinesnot practically. 05:41
streamlines but their titlebar goes green.05:41
@preactionor yellow in Firefox?05:41
@preactionmaybe i haven't seen it05:41
streamlinesperception. green/yellow something like that. sells certificates like hot bread. VErisign happy. 05:42
@preactionright, the illusion of safety, but it's what's necessary05:42
streamlinesthe stats suggest that people will QUICKY,. readiyl buy ie checkout05:42
@preactionso the problem is forcing out of SSL?05:42
streamlines if they feel safe. I say, let them feel safe once they enter the store. Tradeoff is that the whole store has the "saftey feel"05:43
streamlinesnot just when cc data is entered. 05:43
@preactionwhich isn't a problem. anything to get the customer more willing to open their wallet05:44
streamlinesplus one could alwasy be snooping/sniffing/profiling their surfing. they fear technologly. yes, agreed.05:44
streamlinesso I was sayin taht I'll already pay a "toll' by having the "store" ssl,05:45
streamlinesI'd rather not have the rest of all the other pages. 05:45
streamlinesjust a preference ' really. 05:45
@preactionit's minimal. processor cycles are far less expensive than programmer time :p05:45
streamlinessometimes we have to listen to the client too. 05:45
@preactionoh, they want it?05:45
streamlinesI'm tryingto figure how to get them to pay PB to do this. 05:46
@preactioni can convince a fellow developer, it's clients that i tend to just swallow my objections05:46
streamlinesthey got sold on the green bar. 05:46
@preactioni can find ways to do some really evil stuff, i just dont like it05:46
streamlinesquick and dirty. how much time , you estimate? 05:46
@preactionto write the rewrite rules? given an exact list of directories that need to be SSL and that need to not be SSL?05:47
@preactionwhat other criterion?05:48
streamlinesY'know, its the whoel list of directorieds thing I dont like. 05:48
@preactionyou just want anything that's not marked as "encrypt content" to be forced out of SSL if it's in SSL05:49
streamlinesThats it. 05:49
@preactionand it needs to work for the WRE05:49
streamlinesprecisely. well, the box I've installed is WRE. 05:50
streamlinesWE could reinstall, if that would make life easire for everyone. 05:50
@preactionnono, just defining the parameters05:50
@preactionokay, from the code: it looks like the encryptPage property merely changes the URL returned by getUrl05:52
streamlinesI'm already out of pocket and behind schedule...so the fastest way out is my thing at this point. 05:53
streamlinesI haven't been into the perl yet. getUrl? 05:53
@preactionhow much Perl do you know?05:53
streamlinesI've been messing with the environmental things. Dunno how to define that. Covered Larry's Learning Perl.  05:54
streamlinesHave most of the reference material.,05:54
@preactionthis is theoretically a four-line change to the code, starting in lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 107405:55
streamlinesO'reilly mostly. writeen a few things here and there just to process logfiles or...eh? 05:55
@preactioni mean, you could patch your webgui to do what you want it to05:56
streamlinesBut isn't code changing strongly discouraged? what about upgrade paths etc. (I know I sadi fastest way).05:56
@preactionkeep a patch05:56
@preactioner.. a diff... i forget the exact syntax05:56
streamlinesOk. I think I could handle that. 05:57
@preactiondiff -un WebGUI_7.3.10 WebGUI_Modified05:57
@preactionor something05:57
streamlinesI'll hunt through and then consult with PB if I run into trouble--you think---two hour minimum can cover it? 05:58
@preactionyou could use that patch and attach it to an RFE, with a message saying that perhaps it should be a site setting or a configuration value ("Minimal SSL" or something)05:58
@preactiondepending on how it's decided to be implemented, it seems fairly simple05:58
@preactionthe sales dept. would know more05:58
streamlinesphew. Maybe upcoming in version 7.4?05:59
@preactionif you submit an RFE, or if there exists an RFE for it already, pump some karma into it05:59
@preactionor post to the RFE what i've told you, the four-line change starting at 1074 of WebGUI::Asset05:59
@preactionor if you fix it yourself, post your patch. if JT approves, it'll probably be added right away to 7.4, since it is such a small thing really06:00
streamlinesI don't have much karma just about hundred.  OK, I'll give it a shot.  BTW, the webcast tomorrow is 10:00AM  *CST?*06:01
streamlinesthak you for pointing that way. I can tell the RFE's are important. how do they help PB? just directional, give the users what they want type feedbackl?06:02
@preactionyes, CST06:02
@preactionas a rule: for every minor version (7.X), the highest karma RFE is implemented. it also, yes, provides feedback for what people want to see in WebGUI06:03
@preactionwe're getting confused here: WebGUI is WebGUI, Plainblack just gets paid to do WebGUI ;)06:03
@preactionas the community re-organizes, hopefully we'll get some more community devs06:04
streamlinesOh, i see. Gotcha.  When I get WG to work I'll post all over cyberspace. 06:05
streamlinesSIcen I typically thing I don't know what I'm doing, I tend to keep quite. you'll notinc that even here, I just lurk. what could I possibly contribute? But if I do fixx this06:05
+perlDreamerthe current community devs are getting tired06:06
streamlinesI'll be sure to tell.06:06
@preactionthere are plenty of bugs on the buglist06:06
+perlDreamerI know06:06
+perlDreamerI've fixed 10 of them since Wednesday06:06
@preactioni'm giving streamlines some things he could help contribute ;)06:07
+perlDreameryeah, streamlines, fix some bugs!06:07
@preactionsome of the code documentation needs auditing06:07
+perlDreamerwe always need more API tests06:07
@preactionunit tests06:07
gooeybotunit tests are an amazing thing for finding bugs.06:07
+perlDreamerpreaction's car needs washing06:07
+perlDreamerwait a minute06:08
@preactionyou have no idea06:08
@preactionif i had a man-servant, i'd be able to work more! ;)06:08
+perlDreamerhackers of the world, unite!06:08
streamlinesThanks folks. I try to to take without giving. I'll do the whatever I can. but its tough when one feels like one knows absolutely nothing. 06:08
streamlines<sp: not to take>06:08
+perlDreamergood night, guys06:09
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-!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.10 | WRE 0.7.2 ][ New Contest Open -- Acme Code Contribution -- Win $$$ and Karma (www.plainblack.com/wcc) ][ Plainblack Needs You! Perl dev wanted: http://xrl.us/u7c506:09
streamlinesI'm off to bed too. 06:09
streamlinesCheers preaction. I'll be luirking tomorrow. 06:09
@preactionwe'll be here06:10
streamlinesbotsnack perlbot06:10
perlbotI'm not your prank monkey06:10
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-!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.11 | WRE 0.7.2 ][ New Contest Open -- Acme Code Contribution -- Win $$$ and Karma (www.plainblack.com/wcc) ][ Plainblack Needs You! Perl dev wanted: http://xrl.us/u7c508:25
@preactioni so wish i could enter these contests. i think a good one would be a "fortune" asset, that you could use ^AssetProxy(); on in your style template, or whatever08:26
@preactionhowever, make it generic enough to be "Grab output from whatever system call", fortune being the default08:27
@preactionchange \n to <br>, and you're set08:27
gooeybotpreaction: that doesn't look right08:27
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* Radix-wrk wonders if he could steal preaction's idea and enter it in.09:28
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SDuensinGood morning.15:45
SDuensinMorning it is.  :-)15:51
pjesiactually it is afternoon15:52
SDuensinBum.  :-P15:53
rjacobsengood morning all - is there a way to export products from one webgui site and import them into another webgui site without having to enter them all in manually all over again on each site?16:07
* SDuensin wishes he knew.16:08
pjesirjacobsen: create a package of the Asset, then send it from one server to the other and use the import package on the other server16:09
rjacobseni know how to do that - but a product is not an asset16:10
rjacobseni see no metadata tab on it - nor import option16:10
rjacobsenor export16:10
rjacobsenproducts added via the "Products" or "Add a new product" link do not seem to be true assets per say and i cannot find a metadata tab for any of them to be able to make a package16:11
rjacobsenif you edit a product the only tabs are "properties" and "actions" and i do not see where they are being placed in the asset tree16:13
pjesihave no idea16:13
rjacobsenok then maybe you can tell me how to completely duplicate a site in webgui without using the package method16:27
pjesimysqldump and tar the uploads folder16:34
rjacobsenman there has GOT to be a way to export out products16:35
@rizenthere is...wait until we turn products into assets sometime this summer16:36
rjacobsenthat doesnt fix my current problem :(16:37
@rizeni didn't say it did16:37
@rizenbut if you do have time travel technology...then i twill16:37
rjacobsenok maybe a hack but where is the product info placed when you "add a product"? so maybe i can copy and paste somehow16:38
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@rizen| productParameterOptions                  | 16:42
@rizen| productParameters                        | 16:42
@rizen| productVariants                          | 16:42
@rizen| products   16:42
rjacobsenok here is an idea16:45
rjacobsenis there a macro that could call the product price and product number from a product wobject i created?16:45
rjacobsenif there is - that would fix my problem16:46
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ckotileclipse pic17:36
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ScottDHey all - SDuensin here.  Is the webinar full?  I'm not able to reconnect.18:01
pjesiTo join the Meeting, please use one of the following supported operating systems:18:03
SDuensinMeeting is Full says my machine.18:04
SDuensin(The machine with the projector can't connect at all.)18:05
@rizenit's not full18:05
@rizenwe can have 1000 participants18:05
SDuensinLook again.18:05
SDuensinWhen I was on before, it said the max was 11.18:05
pjesiwhy is it mac/win only?18:05
SDuensin"This meeting is full.  Please contact the meeting organizer."18:07
ckotilis it going on now?18:07
@rizensorry dude...we were told that the meeting was supposed to allow 1000 participants18:07
@rizenthere's no way to fix it now18:07
SDuensinCrap.  I was in, too.  Tried to switch to a machine with a projector on it.18:08
* SDuensin sighs.18:08
@rizenwe're going to leave18:08
@rizento give room for you18:08
SDuensinI'm in!18:09
ckotilim in.18:09
ckotiltheres only 10 attendees18:09
ckotilwhere do i get sound from? must i call in?18:10
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@rizenyou must call in18:12
ckotildamn, i dont have long distance axx18:14
* ckotil drops off18:14
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* snapcount sings a jingle "meow meow meow meow meow meow"18:29
@rizensnapcount...please call xtopher18:30
@rizenhe has a bunch of priority bug fixes for you18:30
@rizeni'll work with you on the RTE related ones18:31
pjesiany of those have to do with feeds in Calendar.pm?18:39
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TheSeparatorHow was the WebGUI live experience ?18:40
SDuensinOther than I wish it had VoIP, very nice.18:49
ckotilor voice built in18:50
ckotillike i was expecting.18:50
ckotilim just hatin on gotomypc18:50
SDuensinWell, it hated the laptop we tried to use.18:52
SDuensinManaged to make it work on my desktop machine.18:52
TheSeparatorIs such a Webinar recorded ? Can it be replayed for those is very different time-zones ?18:57
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SDuensinThe site says they plan on selling them on DVD.18:58
TheSeparatorSaw that but this would be time consuming, in Oz and Japan people are asleep....18:59
ckotilit was just flash, or something similiar. should be possible to just post online. but i dunno19:00
ckotilwe use this adobe product here at my edu, for online classes and training sessions. so flash files get posted. they rock19:00
TheSeparatordid they use adobe presenter ?19:01
ckotilthey used gotomypc.com19:01
TheSeparatorunderstood, thanks.19:01
ckotilwe use adobe acrobat pro, formerly known as breeze19:01
ckotilacrobrat pro connect*19:01
ckotilstpuid name.19:01
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@snapcountmmmmm lunch19:34
@snapcountanyone have any ideas yet for the acme contest?19:34
@snapcountif you're just starting out with perl or developing in WebGUI it's a great way to learn19:34
@snapcountI'd like to see someone write a game19:35
pjesidoes it have to be totally useless?19:36
@snapcountbut it can be19:37
@snapcountbtw I have a strong interest in coding for fun so I'll help anyone out with perl and webgui questions for this19:38
@snapcountactually I had an idea for a hide and seek game that could be fun to do19:43
@snapcountit would have an asset component and a workflow activity component19:43
@snapcountthe asset would be the game interface where you start it, track scores, etc19:44
@snapcountand the workflow would randomly hide a piece of content in the site somewhere19:44
@snapcountthe content would have a link you click when you find it to tell the asset you've won19:44
@snapcountat which point it would kick off the workflow to hide it in a new spot19:44
@snapcountthe game its self is probably for a five year old but it would be a good programming exercise for a beginner19:45
@snapcounta really simple one that would be cool would be a magic eight ball for the dashboard19:51
Hinrikwhat could be wrong if calendar feeds aren't being updated?19:52
@snapcountdo you have any errors in your webgui log?19:52
@snapcountthat workflow should log errors if something goes wrong19:52
@snapcountactivity rather19:52
@snapcountHinrik: has it ever updated?19:54
Hinrikyes, I added a few events, but only the first two are in the ical feed19:54
@snapcountoh wait19:54
@snapcountare you talking about feeds generated by the calendar or feeds being brought into the calendar19:55
@snapcountI was talking about pulling them in19:55
HinrikHere's the calendar http://arcticportal.org/calendar/caff19:55
Hinrikadd ?func=ical for the feed19:55
@snapcountyeah I just tried it... only got two of your events19:56
@snapcountthere are no errors in you webgui.log file?19:57
Hinrikthis is the only thing that might be relevant:19:57
HinrikCaught exception executing workflow activity pbwfactivity0000000006 for instance O0i5VA7zhzURUdeEQhNzPg which reported ModPerl::Util::exit: (120000) exit was called at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/ErrorHandler.pm line 22919:57
@snapcountwell I just spotted a different bug19:58
@snapcountthe ical feed should be processing macros before sending the output19:59
@snapcountit's not19:59
@snapcountthat should be very easy to fix though19:59
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Hinrikhow so?19:59
@snapcountso that error doesn't tell me much19:59
@snapcountis there anything above that error?19:59
@snapcountyou just pass a reference of the content to the WebGUI::Macro::process I think it is20:00
@snapcountor evaluate or something20:00
@snapcountI'd have to look at the API20:00
@snapcountperlDreamer: want to help me work on the dbslave bug20:00
+perlDreameryup, have to use a reference20:00
+perlDreamersnapcount, yeah!20:01
+perlDreamerwhat can I do?20:01
+perlDreamerit's his dbslave20:01
Hinrikthe line above that error has something to do with an asset I'm writing (unrelated to calendars) so it's not related20:01
@snapcountfirst can you duplicate it b/c I cant20:01
+perlDreamerneither can I20:01
+perlDreamerI think he's got a bad slave20:01
+perlDreamerthat's why I wrote the script20:01
+perlDreamerdo you have login rights?20:01
@snapcountis there an instance of that asset on the same page as your calendar?20:01
@snapcountyeah but it's a live system so I can't poke around20:02
@snapcountbesides I don't know much about the way they have it configured20:02
+perlDreamerthe script I wrote runs stand-alone.  it would be safe to run on a live system20:02
@snapcountso we need to make it handle the problem gracefully20:03
@snapcountthat's our bug now20:03
@snapcountbut I need to recreate a failure in order to do that20:03
+perlDreamerit's the same kind of bug as the SQLForm one20:03
+perlDreamerwe need exceptions20:03
@snapcountbut we don't have them yet20:03
+perlDreamerwell, to handle it gracefully, we have to eval20:04
+perlDreamerlet's see if it can be duplicated, first20:04
@snapcountI currently have two databases running on the same server20:05
@snapcountI guess I could try deleting it or something and see what the result is20:06
+perlDreamerset up a slave with a bad host dsn, that should give you a connect error20:06
@snapcountbut that should be the same as a bad DSN in the config20:06
@snapcountyeah but that is already handled isn't it?20:06
@snapcountwell that sounds like a good place to start then20:07
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+perlDreamerI used the Session.t test script to duplicate the error20:13
+perlDreamerwith this dsn: DBI:mysql:mywebgui;host=
+perlDreamer(that IP doesn't exist on my network)20:13
+perlDreamerit times out for a very, very long time20:13
@snapcountso the problem comes back to the fatal we throw20:15
@snapcountmeaning we can't trap it20:16
+perlDreamerwell, technically DBI throws the failure20:16
+perlDreamerI think we have a few choices:20:16
+perlDreamer1) Tell him to fix his slaves20:16
+perlDreamer2) Trap connect inside an eval20:16
+perlDreamerif the eval fails, return self->db instead20:17
+perlDreameroh, and not instantiating all 3 slaves at the same time would be good, too20:17
@snapcountok, I'm going to try and reproduce like you described and see what I can come up with20:18
rjacobsenexcuse me (sorry for interrupting) is there a macro in webgui that would call the price and product number from a product wobject?20:18
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+perlDreamerrjacobsen: no20:19
+perlDreamerit wouldn't be hard to write, though20:19
+perlDreamerpass it the assetId/URL20:19
+perlDreamerinstance the Asset20:19
+perlDreameruse ->get to grab and return the data you want20:19
+perlDreamer10-15 lines with error checking20:19
rjacobsen(not to be stupid) how do i instance the asset?20:20
+perlDreamerInside Asset.pm, check out new, newByUrl and newByDynamicClass20:21
+perlDreamerthey are all object creators20:21
+perlDreamerYou could use the Page macro as an example20:21
rjacobsenallright thanks20:21
+perlDreamerAlthough it only grabs stuff out of the current asset from the session var20:21
@snapcountmy $asset = WebGUI::Asset->newByUrl($session, "/url/to/asset");  my $value = $asset->get("propertyName");20:43
ckotilwe have a workflow just waiting20:44
ckotilfor no reason.20:44
ckotilemail never got sent.20:44
ckotillooks like its due to this error20:46
ckotil2007/03/06 18:38:38 - ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[983] - CRON: Job globalnoc.webgui.conf-cbAkterTqD1vrvHHSHI5jQ is not in our queue.20:46
+perlDreamersnapcount: is there anything else I can do to help with the dbSlave thing?20:47
@snapcountnot right at this second20:48
@snapcountok perlDreamer, I'm caught up with you now20:56
@snapcountright now where this stands is that it's not a bug20:56
@snapcountwebgui is working exactly how it was intended too20:56
@snapcountit throws a fatal if it can't connect to a database20:57
@snapcountI'm sure this will change when we get exceptions (I hope)20:57
+perlDreamerI concur with you20:57
@snapcountFrom what I can see the system is not very robust as you pointed out... one slave being unreachable should not cause the site to stop working20:58
@snapcountbut it was clearly written to work that way20:58
+perlDreameryes.  dbSlaves must work, or you're hosed with the current code20:58
@snapcountI'm going to re-read the original support request to see how it was decided this was a bug to make sure I'm not missing anything20:59
+perlDreamerJT said to post it as a bug20:59
+perlDreamerYou can also see from the bug that I asked xtopher if he'd validated his slaves, and he said he had.  But the connect error doesn't lie.21:02
@snapcountwell I just realized something else21:03
@snapcounthis problem is intermittent21:03
@snapcountall of the slaves are connected too in the beginning21:03
@snapcountso if this were a connection issue it would never work at all21:03
@snapcountunless the connection is intermittent21:04
+perlDreamerthat's what I think21:04
@snapcountbut that seems unlikely21:04
+perlDreamerwith the dbslave code in Session, there's no chance for intermittent behavior21:04
+perlDreamerit's all or none.21:04
ckotilFUCK. this has to be workflow bug21:04
ckotili restarted spectre , and now i have 2 waiting workflows21:04
+perlDreamerckotil: or a POE bug (which the workflow uses)21:05
ckotiltrying to send this notify email21:05
ckotilive got a thread going in PB support21:05
+perlDreamerThe PB guys will sort it out.  They're top notch.21:06
ckotilyah, im just angry about it21:06
ckotilalways something. upgrade and something breaks21:06
ckotilwhich is fine as long as it isnt crucial to my operation21:06
ckotilohhh, so get this. a flood of emails just went out21:07
ckotilthe past 3 weeks of notify emails21:07
ckotili just restarted spectre21:07
ckotilseems to me that the restart spectre bug aint fixed21:07
+perlDreamerthat could very well be21:08
@snapcounthave you updated the perl modules ckotil 21:08
@snapcountyou need to update POE, POE::Component::IKC, and HTML::Template21:08
@snapcountthat last one is not for spectre21:09
@snapcountbut you should update it21:09
ckotili dont recall if i did. ill assume i didnt21:09
ckotilthx snapcount 21:09
@snapcountjust try to install them from cpan21:09
@snapcountif there is a newer version, it will install them21:09
* ckotil nods.21:09
@snapcountdon't forget to restart modperl after the update21:10
ckotilya it updated (POE)21:10
ckotili cant believe over looked this21:10
ckotilshould be in gotcha right?21:10
+perlDreamerdon't feel too bad, I did too.21:10
+perlDreamerthere's nothing in the gotchas about this21:11
+perlDreamerI think preaction's idea about testEnvironment being a part of a WebGUI/WRE upgrade is a good one.21:12
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snapcount_am I back?21:15
+perlDreameryou're back21:15
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@snapcountstupid interwebs21:16
+perlDreamerthere's gunk in the tubes21:16
@snapcountdid that resolve your problems ckotil?21:16
SDuensin"It's a series of tubes!  It's...  It's not a truck you can just dump stuff on!"21:16
ckotilyeah, we're good. thanks snapcount 21:18
+perlDreamersnapcount: are the new module versions in testEnvironment.pl?21:18
@snapcountI don't know21:18
@snapcountthis should be in gotchas though21:18
@snapcountI'm pretty sure that updating those poe modules was essentially the "fix" for the spectre bugs21:19
@snapcountall of the code changes on our end were improvements JT made21:19
+perlDreamerckotil: which versions of  POE, POE::Component::IKC got installed?21:21
ckotilRunning make for G/GW/GWYN/POE-Component-IKC-0.1904.tar.gz21:22
ckotilthen i read this.21:23
ckotil CPAN.pm: Going to build G/GW/GWYN/POE-Component-IKC-0.1904.tar.gz21:23
ckotilYou currently have POE 0.3601 installed.21:23
ckotilIt appears IKC causes POE version 0.29 - 0.36 to exercise a bug in some21:23
ckotilversions of Perl that prevents wheel's DESTROY from being called.  This21:23
ckotilissue has been resolved in 0.37.  If you can not upgrade your version of21:23
ckotilPOE, IKC must work around that calls the wheel's DESTROY explicitly.  You21:23
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ckotilmay find and reactivate this by uncommenting lines after WORK AROUND in21:23
ckotilIKC/Server.pm, IKC/Channel.pm and IKC/Client.pm21:23
ckotildoesnt make much sense21:23
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+perlDreamerthere's too much guesswork in this21:23
+perlDreamerrizen: what are the canonical versions of modules required for Spectre?  POE and POE::Component::IKC?21:24
ckotilok POE::Component::IKC is up to date (0.1904).21:25
ckotilis what i have now.21:25
@snapcountYou need to update POE first, then IKC21:27
@snapcountthat should get rid of that warning21:27
ckotilo, i just did IKC21:28
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cap10morganif you were going to move a bunch of collaboration systems (and their contents) from one 7.3.10 site to another, what would be the best way to do that?22:43
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@preactiondid you try making a package22:51
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rjacobsenanyone here please help us - the sql form on our site is not working - here is the errors in the log file http://paste.biz/paste-855.html - it keeps saying when we save the sql form (Some error(s) occurred:23:01
rjacobsenDatabaselink does not have enough privileges (Needs ALTER, CREATE, DELETE, INDEX, INSERT, SELECT, UPDATE))23:01
rjacobsenbut we have all those priviledges set23:02
+perlDreamerthat's also the bug for a bad DSN.23:03
+perlDreameruh, not bug, but error message23:03
rjacobsenwe used the example directly from your help page23:04
cap10morganpreaction: i was thinking about doing that, but how does that work from one site to another?23:06
@preactioncap10morgan: works fine from what I hear23:06
@preactionexcept your subscriptions wont get migrated, but i assume you don't want that (and that would require some raw database fun time)23:06
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pjesisnapcount: do you know what might be causing the ical to be sent without the macro processing?23:08
+perlDreamerrjacobsen: I think the root problem is this:23:08
+perlDreamer2007/03/06 15:04:56 - WARN - kidscorner.us.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - DatabaseLink [Km4hmZZDkxFwrR4aKJzlWQ] The DSN specified is of an improper format.23:08
+perlDreamerYou have a bad DSN.23:08
+perlDreamerno DSN, no database23:08
+perlDreamerno database, no SQL Form23:08
cap10morganpreaction: yeah, that's fine. so the packages menu has the same content regardless of what site you're logged into? (as long as it's the same server)23:08
rjacobsenok so how do we find out our DSN? what do we put in the DSN?23:08
@preactioncap10morgan: no, the package has the same content as the asset (at least, at the time of export). they aren't updated cross-site23:09
+perlDreamerYou have to have a separate database from the main WebGUI one.23:09
+perlDreamerDo you have such a database setup on your site?23:10
cap10morganpreaction: right, i just mean, the package will be available to deploy on a different site after i've created it on the original?23:11
@preactionno, you have to go to the asset manager, click "export", you'll be given a file to download. then you can go to the asset manager on the other site, and you'll see a spot to import an exported package23:12
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cap10morganah, gotcha23:13
cap10morganthanks preaction23:13
rjacobsenwe do not have a seperate database setup no23:15
rjacobsenso we cant use the existing database?23:15
+perlDreamerIt's a safety feature to protect the main WebGUI db.23:15
cap10morgancan you create packages, export them, and import them using the API?23:15
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cap10morganhmm, the import is doing nothing. i click import after selecting the wgpkg file and the browser spins for a minute, then nothing shows up. ??23:37
cap10morgannothing in webgui.log23:37
@snapcountpjesi: yes23:48
@snapcountI told you earlier23:48
pjesireally? must have missed that sorry23:49
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pjesi<@snapcount> you just pass a reference of the content to the WebGUI::Macro::process I think it is23:51
pjesiyou mean this?23:51
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@snapcountit's vague I know23:51
@snapcountbut that's really the answer23:51
ckotilwho worked on the new calendar asset?23:52
@snapcountsomewhere there is a variable that contains all of the event details23:52
@snapcountyou need to pass a reference of that variable to WebGUI::Macro::process23:52
pjesisnapcount: I see, I just thought the fix was not in the code23:52
@snapcountoh no23:53
@snapcountto fix the macros not processing requires code for sure23:53
cap10morgananyone know what to check for when packages won't import?23:56
+perlDreamercap10morgan: what version are you using?23:57
cap10morganon both the exporting and the importing side23:58
+perlDreamerYou should check the change log.  I'm pretty sure there were bugs fixed around
+perlDreamerthere was an import package fixed in 7.3.1123:59
@preactionckotil: just ask the question23:59
+perlDreamerwhat kind of package are you trying to export and why do you say there's a bug for that?23:59
--- Day changed Wed Mar 07 2007
ckotilnah, you wont like it00:01
cap10morganperlDreamer: correct you are :) upgrading now.00:01
ckotili created an example of the calendar asset today for my group to check out. and they want it ajaxified00:01
ckotilgoogle calendar spoiled them.00:01
ckotilthey like the ical support.00:02
@preactionwhat do you mean by "ajaxified"?00:02
ckotilable to drag and drop events and info , mostly00:02
@preactionyou mean an overabundance of pointless asynchronous requests?00:02
@preactiondrag.. and ... drop... from what?00:03
ckotilevents to duplicate them for example00:03
ckotilor move an event00:03
ckotiland abiltilty to overlay  multiple calendars onto a single view.00:04
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@preactionyour overlay can be done with ^AssetProxy, no?00:04
ckotilno i dont think so.00:04
ckotilthe proxied asset would just get appended to the page, rather than actually overlay'd00:05
@preactionyou mean you want multiple calendar's Events to be shown on a single calendar00:05
@preactionthat's easy, use the iCal feeds00:05
ckotilwe already have ical feeds.00:05
* ckotil tries.00:05
ckotilwell i added the feeds.00:07
ckotilnow i wait till the workflow is executed.00:07
@preactionor force it to run now00:07
ckotilhrm i dont see a running workflow.00:08
ckotilfor it. or how to update the feeds00:08
@preactiongo to Admin Console > Scheduler. look for Hourly Maintenance Tasks and click Run00:09
+perlDreamerhey, where did gooeybot go?00:09
ckotilhe dropped a half hour ago00:09
+perlDreamerhe needs to learn runHourly00:09
@preactionweird, let me find him00:09
+perlDreamergooeybot, runHourly is go to Admin Console > Scheduler. look for Hourly Maintenance Tasks and click Run00:09
cap10morgandoes the 7.3.10 package import bug affect the exported packages? i.e. should i re-export under 7.3.11?00:10
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+perlDreamergooeybot, runHourly is go to Admin Console > Scheduler. look for Hourly Maintenance Tasks and click Run00:12
gooeybotOK, perlDreamer.00:12
+perlDreamercap' you shouldn't need to00:13
ckotilseems our ical format isnt up to spec.00:14
ckotilor the calendar just barfs after a multi day event.00:15
ckotilnot sure which. pry the earlier.00:15
ckotilon that note. im heading home.00:15
ckotilsee ya on the flipside00:15
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@preactionckotil: more probably the latter00:16
@preactionckotil: post a bug and attach the ICS file00:16
+perlDreamerno good iCal parsers on CPAN?00:21
@preactionthere are 6 available, Text::vCard being the best interface I saw00:21
@preactionin the WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::CalendarUpdateFeeds I do a rundown of them00:22
@preactionand then roll my own. that activity was written at about 5:00am, 4 hours before deadline00:22
+perlDreamerI'll read your notes00:22
+perlDreamermaybe we could borrow their test suite to validate your parser?00:22
@preactionthe format isn't hard actually00:22
@preactionit's not the parser itself, it's more likely there's a way to specify start and end dates that i didn't take into account00:23
@preactionwhich is why we'll need ckotil's ICS file00:24
+perlDreamerwould the iCal spec help (if there is one)?00:24
@preactioni'd also like, eventually, to get rid of most of the main code in that workflow activity and put it in the calendar for easier maintenance00:24
@preactionthere is one, and it Might help, but it'd be easier to know what way they're being specified, or what the parser's choking on00:25
@preactionadmittedly, i implemented a bare minimum of the spec, enough to get by00:25
@preactionsomething like Calendar->addFromFeed(url)00:26
@preactionand why the hell is it snowing again?00:26
@preactionit's like we get 6 weeks of winter, starting February00:26
@preactionwhat's the name of the workflow activity that's used to notify admins when a version tag needs approval? is there one in the default WebGUI or will I have to make one?00:27
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cap10morganwhoah! importing packages works in 7.3.11 but it generates a metric buttload of version tags!00:33
@preactionlook at the revisions in the tags, are they empty?00:33
cap10morgani think so00:35
cap10morganthey would show up on the right if they weren't, right?00:36
cap10morganoh wait, no they're not00:36
@preactionso the version tags are comitted?00:36
cap10morganno, they're not00:36
cap10morganthey have revisions in them00:36
@preactionand they're showing up on the right, and they have revisions in them00:36
cap10morganlooks like one for each thread of the collab system that was in this package i just imported00:36
@preactionthat is probably a bug, but i'll be durned if i know where00:37
cap10morgani committed them all and now the package is gone again00:39
cap10morganand the collab system / threads didn't show up anywhere00:40
cap10morganoh, i just tried it again and this time it only created one version tag00:40
cap10morganand it worked!00:41
cap10morganthe content is there!00:41
cap10morganhaha, weird.00:41
@preactionweird enough you might want to report it. whatever happened that first time should not have happened00:42
+perlDreamerrizen, should we change the name space of the help template?01:14
+perlDreamercap10morgan, if you file it as a bug, you might want to save that package in the bug report as well.  Then we can do an apples to apples check instead of trying to hack up some kind of package that may not trigger the bug.01:21
cap10morganyeah, i'll be doing a lot more testing of this01:22
cap10morganso if i see it again, i'll definitely report it01:22
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+perlDreamerthanks, man01:24
+perlDreamerit will delay 7.4, but result in a better overall WebGUI01:25
@rizeni don't think so01:25
+perlDreamerno name space change?01:25
@rizenif it happens again, maybe...but for now let's worry about real bugs01:26
@rizengod i hate accounting01:26
@rizenspent the whole day on it today01:26
@rizenfeel like i got nothing done01:26
+perlDreamerI hate that01:26
@rizentime to take a break before a big upgrade this eve01:26
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@rizencap10morgan, did you make it into the talk today?04:36
cap10morgani was on the call and followed along on the demo site04:37
cap10morganbut couldn't get into the gotomeeting04:37
@rizenwe're planning on doing it again in a week or so due to our flub04:38
cap10morgani was mainly evaluating it for the organization i work for to see if we'd be interested in purchasing more sessions04:38
cap10morganoh, ok04:38
@rizeni'm really sorry that we inconvenienced you04:39
cap10morganit's ok; these things happen04:39
@rizenwe thought it was supposed to support 1000 participants by default..but we set it up wrong04:40
@rizenwe were also really suprised by the turnout04:40
@rizenwe expected maybe 5 peeps04:40
@rizenbut it was full almost instantly04:40
@rizenso who knows how many peeps will actually be there04:40
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PedersenMJh'lo all.05:07
PedersenMJHow's it going?05:08
Radix-wrkhi ped05:08
nubadunno, just joined the chan :)05:08
Radix-wrkWelcome nuba :)05:09
PedersenMJWow. Someone went crazy creating wiki articles recently.05:09
PedersenMJThat's cool :)05:09
@rizenthat's tera05:10
@rizenshe's on our staff05:10
PedersenMJHey, Radix, something for you to ponder, when next you think your contributions were unpopular: That sundark theme I posted is now at -2.05:10
@rizenif i had anything to say about it, i'd give it a -5005:11
Radix-wrkI know why too05:11
Radix-wrkit's a bug in Webgui - visitor has rate privileges05:11
PedersenMJSo would I, probably. But, it wasn't made to be popular. It was made to show a conversion process.05:11
Radix-wrkthought it'd been fixed.. but not for contributions05:11
Radix-wrkit means webbots are probably navigating those pages and hitting rate down/rate up randomly05:12
PedersenMJAs for Tera: She a documenter then? Or is she just getting into the system by documenting some pieces first?05:13
@rizeni was just kidding05:13
@rizentera is a jack of all trades person for us05:13
@rizenshe's currently copyiing portions of the help05:13
@rizencuz it will be removed from the actual help system to lower the memory usage in webgu05:14
PedersenMJIt's funny: Burned is up at 12. Andreas02 is at 0. And Sundark is at -2. I'm surprised by the fact that Burned is higher ranked, as I thought Andreas02 would be more so.05:14
PedersenMJJT: I wasn't. Personally, I think Sundark is hideous. However, it was also perfectly simple. So, it got chosen to showcase the process.05:14
Radix-wrkhave a look at the forums, and sort by rating - you'll see HEAPS of random values for posts05:15
PedersenMJHmmm.... JT, would it be worth it to do some sort of utility script that can post the help files directly, or is that just a very bad idea?05:15
@rizeni'm not sure what you're asking05:17
PedersenMJWell, here's my thought: The help files are in the code, as HTML. It should be possible to write a script/object which reads them, and posts the html directly, using the webgui api. However, possible doesn't mean it's a good idea.05:18
@rizenfirst of all she's not copying all the files05:19
@rizenonly select ones05:20
@rizenand secondly, we have no devs available currently05:20
@rizenand thirdly...tera costs less than a dev05:20
PedersenMJSo, bad idea. Like I said, possible doesn't mean good. I'd consider trying it, but it sounds like it wouldn't be the right thing to do.05:21
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PedersenMJg'night all! hasta la manana!07:08
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ckotildb up to 36.5 MB17:12
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rjacobsendo you have a *current* sql query macro that will access a database outside of webgui?18:11
rjacobsenor a new database inside webgui?18:11
rjacobsenwe found the ^SQLExt(); and it doesnt seem to work anymore18:12
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gooeybotHi, rjacobsen18:46
rjacobsendo you have a *current* sql query macro that will access a database outside of webgui?18:46
rjacobsenor a new database inside webgui?18:46
rjacobsenwe found the ^SQLExt(); and it doesnt seem to work anymore18:46
ckotilsqlreport asset lets you query external db's18:54
ckotilit requires you to setup a db link first.18:54
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+perlDreamerrizen: thanks for watching my back, dude19:33
@rizenin what way did i watch your back?20:40
@rizenare you talking about Graphics.pm?20:40
@rizenoh...not like you haven't done it 1000 times for me20:42
+perlDreamerit's good not to work alone20:42
+perlDreamerspeaking of which, I have fixes for two calendar bugs20:42
+perlDreameris it safe to commit?20:43
@rizenfeel free, no release today20:43
@rizeni have 7 priority bug fixes from rockstar clients to do today20:43
@rizenso i have to drop everythng to do that20:43
+perlDreameroh, am I duplicating work on the calendar stuff?20:43
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@rizennothing related20:43
@rizenthe ones i'm working on are rich edit, cache, and db slaves20:44
+perlDreamerthe rich edit one is nasty, very similar to this calendar one20:44
+perlDreamerthe js thinks we're sending it relative URLs, so it's appending the parent URL to "help out"20:44
+perlDreamerit doesn't grok the gateway macro20:45
+perlDreamerwell, that's one of the RTE bugs.  there are probably others20:45
+perlDreamerI'll need you to weigh in on this other calender bug, but I'll post it to the dev list after I get this one cleaned up.20:46
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rjacobsenhave a new problem with trying to delete items from the clipboard >> http://paste.biz/paste-867.html 21:01
@rizenthis is not the place to report bug21:02
rjacobseni was just wondering if u knew how i could fix it21:02
@rizeneven if we diid, we won't consider looking at iit until you report the bug21:03
rjacobsenjust when i thought i was gettin somewhere with this irc channel......21:06
@rizenyou're upset because i'm asking you to follow proper procedure?21:09
@rizenif it's a problem, and we're going to spend our time fixing it...don't you think it's important we fix it for everyone...not just for you?21:09
@rizenor are you that selfish that you think you are more important than the entire community?21:10
rjacobseni was simply asking if it was a bug and /or was there a way to fix it temporarily21:14
* SDuensin sets mode +rude #WebGUI21:14
rjacobsenbut i found a way around it anyhow21:14
rjacobsenand if anyone else has this problem - simply commit any changes made and then you can delete the item in the clipboard21:18
ckotilive had probs with the clipboard like that in th epast. you just have to finess it, until the bug can be fixed.21:37
+perlDreamerrjacobsen, another good idea is to search the bugs page.21:45
+perlDreamerthat bug has been found, reported and fixed21:45
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cap10morganis plain black / webgui participating in google's summer of code?22:00
@rizenas of now no22:03
@rizenlike i said on the forum, in the past we've always been rejected22:03
@rizenso unless you have a good idea you think will get approved..we're not applying22:04
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cap10morganoh, ok22:17
cap10morganwe're applying, and i was going to put some webgui-based projects on our idea list, but didn't want to duplicate any efforts22:17
@rizenthat would be great. let me know how it goes.22:22
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cap10morganwill do22:23
cap10morganif you don't mind my asking (and if you know), on what grounds did they reject you?22:24
@rizeni don't have the emails anymore..but i believe it was just a bland rejection letter stating that our ideas didn't match the goals of summer of code22:25
@rizenone of the ideas we had was to develop a javascript based CSS editor22:25
@rizenso you could visually edit CSS right from your web browser22:26
@rizensimilar to how you use a rich editor to edit html22:26
@rizenanother idea was to ajaxify webgui's admin console22:26
@rizenanother idea was to create a google maps asset for webgui22:27
@rizeni can't remember them all22:27
@rizenbut we put in 6 ideas total over 2 years22:27
@rizenall 6 were rejected22:27
cap10morganhuh, ok22:31
cap10morgani need to beef our ideas page, then :)22:31
cap10morganthanks jt22:31
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--- Day changed Thu Mar 08 2007
+perlDreamerrizen: sometime I'd like you to tell me about what was happening with the CS upgrades and threads with non-existant parents.00:31
@rizenon some sites, there are some corrupt threadds00:32
@rizenand the upgrade failed without the check i added00:32
@rizeni need to write a utility to find/fix/delete corrupt threads00:32
@rizenbut for the time being, i just didn't want people's upgrades to fail00:33
+perlDreamerah, okay00:33
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+perlDreamerrizen: is this a bug or an RFE: http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/calender#TKMNSvU-0qlmsv3aNk5W7g00:56
@rizenbug for the week view00:57
+perlDreamerI'll fix it00:57
@rizeni don't know how he expects a multi-day event to show up on a day view00:57
@rizenyou're only looking at one day00:57
+perlDreamerI don't know.  If it's also easy to fix do you want it as well?00:58
+perlDreamerThe code that I need to fix the week view is in the month00:58
+perlDreamerI'm guessing it could work for the day as well00:58
@rizenlisten to what you are saying00:58
@rizenit is a 1 day view, but a 3 day event00:58
@rizenyou can't display it00:59
@rizenwiithout displaying 3 days of data00:59
@rizenon a day view, it should only display for that day00:59
@rizenor any day that it's part of00:59
@rizenyou can't display all 3 days though00:59
@rizenthat's just rediculous00:59
+perlDreamernow you're going all Billy Crystal, dahling01:11
@rizeni am?01:11
+perlDreamerYou said I was rediculous, which I thought was just mahvelous01:12
+perlDreamerbtw, they gave me a chip to work on, so my WebGUI bandwidth will be decreasing01:14
@rizenyay you01:14
@rizenboo to them01:15
+perlDreamerI need a patron01:15
+perlDreamerForget all this working crap.01:15
@rizenlike a benefactor?01:16
+perlDreamerlike old-time scientists and artists01:16
+perlDreameryou get a patron01:16
+perlDreamerthey tell you what to do01:16
+perlDreameryou do it01:16
@rizenif i were rich, i'd be your patron01:16
+perlDreamerI'd answer support postings, fix bugs, write features, build tests and docs01:17
+perlDreamerkind of like now01:17
+perlDreameronly monetized01:17
+MrHairgreasewhat's wrong with chips01:17
+perlDreamerchips are great when you get to design them01:17
+perlDreamerI've spent the last seven weeks being paid to sit on my butt in a cube01:18
+MrHairgreaseyou don't on this project?01:18
+MrHairgreasei know01:18
+MrHairgreasei do the same01:18
+MrHairgreasebut don't get paid01:18
+perlDreamerno, even worse, don't you have to pay to get to design chips?01:18
+MrHairgreaseat least I have science as an excuse01:18
+MrHairgreasei don't01:19
+MrHairgreasethe whole year01:19
+MrHairgreasei will be busy 01:19
+perlDreamerschool is free in The Netherlands?01:19
+MrHairgreaselaying reaaly tiny wires on glass01:19
+MrHairgreasebut not overly expensive too01:19
+MrHairgreaseit's about 1500 euro's each year\]01:20
+MrHairgreaseexcept when you are old01:20
@rizenholy crap01:20
+MrHairgreaseand it's not school01:20
+MrHairgreaseit's university01:20
@rizenwhen i went to college (and i went to a cheap state school) it was $16k per year01:20
@rizenand that was over 10 years ago01:20
+MrHairgreasethat's just fucked up01:21
+perlDreamerwhen I went to school, it was $1k/year when I started01:21
+perlDreamerand $10k when I finished (grad school)01:21
+MrHairgreasemind you01:21
+MrHairgreaseif you're not a ducth resident01:21
+MrHairgreaseit's much more expensive01:21
+MrHairgreasein the 10k$ range01:21
@rizenour government subsidizes also01:22
@rizenboth at the state and federal level01:22
+perlDreamerbut not as much as the european schools do01:23
+MrHairgreasein NL you also get subsidies01:23
+perlDreamerfor beer and pomade?01:23
+MrHairgreasedepending on what your parents earn01:23
+MrHairgreasei got about 230 euro's per month01:23
+MrHairgreasebut that just covers your rent01:23
+MrHairgreasenot anything else01:23
+MrHairgreasebeer and pomade is what i work for01:24
+MrHairgreaseat oqapi01:24
+perlDreamerdude, you're worth far more than beer and pomade01:24
+perlDreamerbetter add in some liqour01:24
+MrHairgreasei use a LOT01:24
+MrHairgreaseboth of em01:24
+MrHairgreasei like whikey too01:25
+MrHairgreasebut i consume that in much smaller quantities01:25
+perlDreamerratiometric consumption01:25
+perlDreamervery wise of you01:25
+perlDreamerrizen: is preaction slammed?01:26
+MrHairgreasehe must earn the same as i do =)01:26
@rizenhe's slammed...he's paid more than you though01:27
+perlDreamerokay, the day view of the calendar is part of a much larger bug having to do with windowing times in the calendar01:27
+perlDreamerI'll commit this fix, and then start on that one01:27
@rizenpreaction likely won't be available until after march 1901:27
+perlDreamerthen it will take me a bit longer, but I'll get it01:28
* perlDreamer heads to the showers to think about windows01:28
+MrHairgreaseI'm getting paid in beercases and cans of pomade01:30
+MrHairgreaseisn't preaction?01:30
@rizenhe gets paid in bottles of Courvoisier and Caviar01:33
@rizenyou don't like cognac?01:33
+MrHairgreasethe booze is ok though01:33
@rizenor is it the fish eggs you don't like?01:33
+MrHairgreasei don't like fish in general01:34
@rizenme either01:34
+MrHairgreaseyou know what01:34
+MrHairgreasewe'll have a cognac at the wuc then01:34
+MrHairgreaseno fishy eggs01:34
@rizenhow do you feel about second breakfast?01:36
@rizenand twosies01:36
+MrHairgreasedo i wanna know what you're talking about?01:36
+MrHairgreasein delft01:36
@rizeni was referring to lord of the rings01:37
@rizenthe hobbits have those01:37
+MrHairgrease2nd breakfast means something i don't particularly like01:37
@rizenextra meals01:37
+MrHairgreasehey man01:37
+MrHairgreasei'm no friggen hobbit01:37
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+MrHairgreasemy feet are only moderately hairy01:38
@rizenwow. you're very sensitive to the hobbitises01:39
+MrHairgreaseif you say so...01:39
@rizeni love the word "hobbitses"01:39
+MrHairgreasei'm glad it cranks you up01:39
+MrHairgreasefor me01:39
+MrHairgreaseit's time to go to bed01:39
@rizencome on...are you telling me that you don't like golem?01:40
+MrHairgreasehe always remionds me of you01:40
@rizenok...well sleep well my friend01:40
+MrHairgreasethanks for the mental pictures01:40
+MrHairgreasei'm sure it'll keep me awake for hours 01:41
+MrHairgreasemarijn sys hi too btw01:41
@rizenhi back01:42
+MrHairgreaselater guys01:51
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ckotilhow's this for an rfe... It kinda goes against the way the nav asset is supposed to work, but check it... Allow assets that exist beneath an asset that is hidden from navigation to be to be allowed to show up in navigation.16:43
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ckotilpb.com's workflow must be really backed up17:49
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wgGuest85hi all17:49
wgGuest85can u dl extensions for this cms?17:50
ckotilextensions meaning?17:50
wgGuest85like modules17:50
wgGuest85or feature17:50
ckotilwebgui calls them assets.17:50
ckotiland it comes with about everyone that exists.17:50
ckotilthe community has created some too.17:50
ckotiland you're free to create your own.17:51
ckotilthough the process is pretty involved.17:51
ckotilyou need to have a real intimate knowldge of webgui17:51
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ckotilim 8 months into it, and Im just now starting to get a feel for it17:51
ckotilif you're a perl guru, you would be able to pick it tright up tho17:52
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greghackeodd question if anyone knows...  <tmpl_var form.footer>18:04
greghackeWhere is the template for this tmpl_var pulled?18:04
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ckotilyikes, just got an email about a post i made 2 days ago18:41
@rizenyup..we're having mail queue problems18:42
ckotilya i think i experienced it too on my site.18:42
ckotilrestarting spectre seemed to fix it18:42
ckotili might turn on the cronjob that restarts spectre every tnight. you think thats worthwhile?18:43
ckotilim gonna be gone all next week. skiing in utah18:43
ckotilgonna hit up vail, CO on teh way. ;)18:43
ckotilleaving tomorrow afternoon18:43
ckotildriving :/18:43
ckotilIndiana to Utah is 1550 miles18:43
greghackerizen :: you get in a game of settlers?18:43
greghackewill wanted to know how it went.18:44
SDuensinckotil - stop in St. Louis and fix my server.  :-)18:44
ckotilhehe. cant be fixed remotely?18:44
@rizenif you're on webgui 7.3.10 or above, then you don't need to restart spectre everyday18:44
@rizenotherwise you should18:44
ckotilim on 7.3.1018:44
@rizengreg: yes, 2 in fact18:45
@rizenand it's awesome18:45
ckotilbut the restart did seem to fix the workflow thing. OR it could have been restarting mod perl after upgradign POE + POE::Component::IKC18:45
SDuensinckotil - not with bad hardware.  It's really the server, not what's on it.  <G>18:45
* SDuensin hasn't had time to fix it.18:45
greghackeok, instructions, river, etc. should show up soon18:45
SDuensinGot two boxes I can use for it.  One has a bad northbridge.  The other, no idea.  I'm hoping it's just a power supply.18:46
@rizeni got the instructions18:47
@rizenso thanks for that18:47
ckotilrizen: did you get to see my proposed rfe? about 9am this morning, in the channel.18:47
@rizenyes i did18:47
@rizenhence why i ignored it18:47
ckotilso no go?18:47
@rizenit's very easy to do...but i don't see any need for it18:47
@rizenand on top of that, will likely cause me more support headaches than it's worth18:48
ckotiladded flexibility18:48
@rizenyou're going to have to argue a very strong point if you want it added18:48
ckotilluckily for me, my manager doesnt like bread crumb navigation so its not really an issue anymore18:48
@rizeneven with bread crumb it's not a problem18:49
ckotilbut it is. since im placing the assets that make up our internal repositories beneath an asset thats hidden, the crumb trail nav asset will not recognize the assets that exist beneath the hidden asset19:03
ckotili have page layout asset (hidden) > oage layout asset > page layout asset | folder asset19:04
ckotilthe reason for doing that is because they want the repositories to exist beneath each mini-NOC site.19:05
ckotiland not exist in one place beneath our main NOC site. and then I would use shortcut assets to make it appear to exist u nder each mini NOC site. they didnt want that because in the asset view (whcih noone would ever fucking use) they would see that they dont actually exist beneath each mini NOC site19:06
@rizendid you see the show hidden option on the navigation asset?19:11
ckotilslipped my mind.19:15
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ckotilthis makes my job so easy :) this being webgui19:31
ckotili like how show hidden pages is separate from show unpriviledge pages19:32
@rizeni'm glad you approve19:33
ckotilheh, riiight. 19:33
ckotilim glad you're pretending to be glad19:33
@rizenno, it seriously does make me happy to hear that it makes people's jobs easier19:34
@rizenthat's what webgui is supposed to be all about19:34
ckotilgood. it really does.19:34
@rizentoo often i hear: webgui is too hard to install, or webgui is to hard to learn19:34
@rizenbut what they don't realize is that if you take that time investment...it pays off later19:35
ckotilin the right hands those things arent an issue19:35
SDuensinMy only complaint is that it's too hard to get hosted.  Unfortunately, I can't (yet) afford to let PB do it.19:40
@rizendid you see we have a $20 option now?19:40
SDuensinI'll check it out!19:40
@rizenbut you are right...it's a big system..and is hard to get hosted19:40
SDuensinI think I'm going to shoot for "Agency Hosting" with you in the (hopefully) near future.  For some of my sites, I really need shell access to do bulk imports and such.  (At least, I think I need it.)19:44
@rizenagency hosting doesn't give you shell access19:50
SDuensinYea.  I know.19:51
SDuensinCan I bulk-load with the File Pile?19:51
@rizenbulk load what? images?19:51
SDuensinImages, general files.19:51
SDuensinOr what does the zip asset do?19:51
SDuensinEven the file pile would be hell with some of my galleries.19:51
@rizenwhatever it is, if it's not a regular occurance we can run fileImport.pl for you19:51
@rizenthe file pile will let you upload 10 or so files at a time19:52
SDuensinYea.  We have over 1000 images of our daughter on our site.  :-)19:52
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+perlDreamerWill the world please slow down so I can get off?20:05
@rizeni agree20:06
+perlDreamerrizen: you can close this RFE with your erik.svanberg fix http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/managecommittedversions-in-reverse-chronological-order#cnQ0RwXVFpzgJRFgvatD3g20:13
+perlDreamerin your copious spare time, of course :)20:13
@rizenmy erik svanberg fix isn't the same screen20:14
@rizenit's the manage revisions screen20:14
@rizenfor a given asset20:14
+perlDreameroh, okay20:15
@rizenhow many lines of code is your change?20:15
@rizenyou say you have it prototyped?20:15
@rizenmine was a one line fix20:15
+perlDreamerI think it's a sort clause in the SQL query20:15
+perlDreamerIt's at home on my laptop20:15
@rizenin that case go ahead an add it20:15
@rizenno reason to wait on that one20:16
+perlDreamerI'll do it tonight20:16
+perlDreamerdo you want me to work on his Calendar Feed uiLevel > 5 bug, too?20:16
@rizensure...i'm still stuck on priority rockstar requests20:18
+perlDreamerthree characters may be my smallest bug fix yet, but I'm going to test it anyway ;)20:22
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ckotilhrm seems like another calendar bug. I had deleted the calendar asset i was testing on my site the other day w/ the ical feeds. and now a workflow is trying to run on that asset, but cant find it :/21:01
ckotilshall I report this?21:01
+perlDreamerIs it trashed or deleted?21:04
+perlDreamerIt was trashed, then you deleted it?21:07
ckotili deleted it.21:08
ckotilthen purged the trash21:08
@rizenpart of the purge operation should also remove the workflow activity21:08
@rizenif it's not, then that's a bug21:09
ckotilk, its the hourly workflow trying to run.21:09
+perlDreamerfeeds get registered in their own table, Calendar_feeds21:11
+perlDreamerdelete may not be able to remove them, because they could be used by more than 1 calendar21:12
+perlDreamerI need to check into it more21:12
+perlDreameryup, Calendar needs a purge method to clean out its feeds21:15
+perlDreamerckotil: please report this as a bug, and give your 100 karma for wonderful IRC bug reporting21:15
+perlDreamerYou didn't bash anybody from PB or WebGUI while doing it21:15
+perlDreamerYou didn't whine21:16
+perlDreamerYou answered questions promptly21:16
+perlDreamerrizen: as part of this bugfix do we need an update script which deletes unused feeds from the db?21:19
ckotilgood deaal.21:20
@rizenyes we need to clean up after ourselves21:22
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@rizenquick opinion question21:24
@rizenif a user creates a url like: this.foo.bar.php.dish/that.crap.this.home.html/home.html21:24
ckotiluh oh. the workflow errors are piling up. seem to double up each hour (there were two feeds)21:24
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ckotilwhat do i need to delete, and what table do i look in?21:25
@rizendo you see any reason why it would be bad if webgui automatically changed it to something useful like: this/that/home.html21:25
+perlDreamerckotil, I'll have some code for you in just a few21:25
@rizenckotil: just disable those workflows for the time being21:25
@rizenor rather the scheduelr21:25
@rizenthe scheduler that's kickiing them off21:25
+perlDreamerrizen: so long as there's no clash, why not?21:26
@rizeni don't see any reason why not either21:26
@rizenjust one of my rockstar clients actually puts extensions on their urls21:26
@rizenand they want it to automatically remove the extra extensions in the directory structure21:26
ckotilit does that now.21:27
@rizenso if they create page.html and then page.html/article.html21:27
ckotili add .html as my extension21:27
@rizenit will turn that second url into21:27
ckotilim PRETTY sure thats how it works now anyway. seems to21:27
@rizenrather than page.html/article.html21:27
@rizenno it doesn't21:27
@rizeni just created the chunk of code to make it do that21:27
@rizen        # remove multiple extensions from the url if there are some21:28
@rizen        while ($url =~ m{^(.*)\.\w+(/.*)$}) {21:28
@rizen                $url =~ s{^(.*)\.\w+(/.*)$}{$1$2}ig;21:28
@rizen        }21:28
ckotil=] well its been working like that for me, for some time now21:28
@rizenthen i guess you don't care that i'm going to add this piece of code21:28
ckotilnot at all. i welcome it.21:28
SDuensinDUCK!   FLYING ASCII!21:28
+perlDreamerckotil, do you want me to scriptify this, or can you pull it from SVN?21:30
+perlDreamerIt's 4 lines of code, but it needs a session var21:31
ckotilive never pulled from SVN before. if you feel like holding my hand through the process, then i wont need the script21:31
+perlDreamerthere's probably a way to write it as a subselect, something like:21:33
+perlDreamerDELETE from Calendar_feeds WHERE assetId NOT IN ( select distinct assetId from Calendar)21:33
+perlDreamerDELETE from Calendar_feeds WHERE assetId NOT IN ( select distinct(assetId) from Calendar)21:34
+perlDreamerif you have a backup of your db, you could try the second query21:35
ckotilill make a new backup and issue that21:36
ckotil2 rows affected.21:37
+perlDreamernow, try to run the hourly workflow and see if you get bugs again21:38
@rizenhannibal et portus21:38
+perlDreamerlooking good?21:39
+perlDreamerbtw, where do you work?21:39
ckotilyeah, we're good21:39
ckotilthanks a lot man.21:40
ckotili work for the global research NOC21:40
ckotilwe monitor advanced research networks21:40
ckotilinternet2 is the most well known21:40
ckotilbut theres also National LambdaRail and some others21:40
+perlDreamercool.  I thought you deserved a mention in the changelog for guinea pigging this21:40
+perlDreamerand there's your karma21:42
+perlDreamernow go vote up an RFE or something21:42
ckotilive been keeping my karma above 1000. now i have some breathing room for that21:44
SDuensinWhat good is karma on the PB site?21:45
ckotilboosting rfe rankings21:46
ckotilgiving thumbs up or thumbs down on a forum post.21:46
ckotilin the future we might be able to spend it on webgui warez21:46
@rizenckotil: your users are fired22:09
@rizenand when i say fired...think of me with veins bulging out of my neck and a red face, and I say "FIIIIRRREEDDD!!"22:10
ckotilthey are network engineers.22:10
@rizenthat's why they are fired22:10
ckotilhalf are engineers. other half are service desk people.22:10
ckotiland the service desk types are worse.22:10
@rizenif they were normal users, i could see why they would forget to commit22:10
@rizenbut these people are technical22:10
ckotilya, its mind boggling22:10
ckotilnot my  network. i think its just amazing there exists a site like this22:11
@rizenreal network engineers don't use diagrams22:13
@rizenthey use the "status" report22:13
ckotili like this commit reminder macro. 22:13
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@rizenyou mean because i'm a genius?22:14
@rizendon't mind me...just stroking my own ego. =)22:14
ckotilyou rule webgui22:14
@rizennah..not these days22:15
@rizenthese days it's guys like MrHairgrease, preaction, and perlDreamer that rule webgui22:15
@rizeni have lots of neighbors with connections..unfortunately all of them secure them22:21
@rizendamn educated neighbors22:21
@rizenpd, remember that big gaming rig i bought?22:22
@rizeni set up a lan party for last saturday22:22
@rizensome people showed up friday night and we played for a bit22:22
@rizenthe next morning i woke up, and sat down ready to play22:22
@rizenand the machine died22:22
@rizenmotherboard fried22:22
@rizenor something22:22
@rizeni hate computers22:23
@preactionhow? it's been all of a month?22:23
@rizeni know22:23
@preactionand you probably haven't used it much22:23
@rizenthe worst part that it was literally working up until the very minute the lan party was supposed to start22:23
@preactionthat's messed up22:23
* preaction spent 12 hours finishing the UEF campaign last night22:24
ckotilya computers blow22:24
ckotili set the font size to 40 on that macro. i cant wait to hear everyones reaction.22:34
@rizendid it work22:35
@rizeni wrote it from scratch without testing22:35
ckotillike a charm.22:35
ckotilthank you22:35
@rizenoh crap..i meant to add some other things to the css22:35
@rizenlike position: absolute22:35
+MrHairgreasethis compuer doesn't blow22:35
@rizentop: 022:35
@rizenleft: 200px;22:36
@rizenthat sort of thing22:36
+MrHairgreaseeven though it runs nt422:36
@rizeni assume you already did that?22:36
ckotili kinda like how it works without it.22:36
ckotilill throw it in, and see how i like it.22:36
ckotilno way in hell someone can forget to commit now >:)22:37
@rizeni would think not22:45
@rizentake a screen shot22:45
@rizeni want to see it22:45
ckotilhttp://snare.grnoc.iu.edu/stuff/grab.tiff i think22:48
+MrHairgreasebe sure to include 22:49
+MrHairgreasetext-decoration: blink;22:49
+MrHairgreasein the css22:49
+MrHairgreaseto bad the marquee tag is depricated22:49
@rizennice...i can't imagine that they'd be able to miss that22:50
@rizenyou might want to change the text22:50
+MrHairgreaseit misses fool22:51
+MrHairgreaseor mudsucker22:51
@rizenCommit Your Changes You Fucking Bastards That Should Know Better WIthout Me Having To Put this Big Box Up Here!22:51
* MrHairgrease has been watching ateam reruns22:51
ckotilyou should add that to the contributions22:51
+MrHairgreaseimagine how that would lokk through the leetout22:51
@rizenyou have a broken macro22:54
ckotilyeah yeah. thats my dev site. i just leave stuff broken22:56
ckotilnoone to impress22:56
@rizenstupid scanner driver22:58
@rizengotta reboot...brb22:58
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+perlDreamerlong time no see23:17
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+perlDreamersorry to hear about your box23:17
@rizenhey, don't talk about my box that way23:31
@rizenyou don't even know sarah that well23:32
+perlDreameryou're the one who said it overheated and died, dude23:32
+perlDreamershe was probably thumping you in SupCom anyway23:33
@rizeni never said it overheated23:33
+perlDreamertrue, but fried is usually an overheating problem23:33
@rizeni have decided that i'm never touching a computer again23:34
@rizenor anything electronic23:34
@rizeni'm going to go live in the hills somewhere23:34
@rizenlive off the land23:34
+perlDreamerliving off the land is hard, you're either hovering or floating23:34
+perlDreamerlive on the land instead23:34
@preactionit's not hard, you just have to throw yourself at the ground and miss23:35
@rizeni mean, working the land23:35
@rizentera is done copying help to wiki23:35
+perlDreamershe works fast23:37
+perlDreamershould we start the purge on the source code size?23:37
@preactionas in, the help is now a wiki asset inside the default install?23:38
+perlDreamermore like on the wG main site23:39
+perlDreamerpreaction: in Calendar getEventsIn, why are Start dates inclusive (<=) but not End dates?23:42
@preactionbecause if you have: 2006-01-01 01:00:00 until 2006-01-01 02:00:00, and then the next page has 2006-01-01 02:00:00 until (one hour later), if you have an event that is at 2006-01-01 02:00:00, it would show up on both pages23:43
+perlDreamerthat makes sense23:44
@preactionbasically, one day is 2006-01-01 from 00:00:00 until 23:59:59, and it's easier to show than using < instead of <= 23:59:5923:44
+perlDreamerI'm working on a calendar bug where if you define a week-long event and then go to the day view the event only shows up on the day with the start date23:44
@preactionalso, it's possible to have 23:59:60 (leap seconds)23:44
+perlDreamerI want to make sure that I get all the current logic before tinkering23:45
@preactionoh, the reason that happens is because i didn't specifically show the event on more than one day, look at the viewMonth, there's a comment with "Show this event on all the days it spans"23:45
+perlDreameryup, already did that one23:45
@preactioni believe i was told that i should only do that on the month view23:45
@rizenno, we can't start purging until 7.423:46
@preactionexample: for the day view it's divided into hours, does that mean the event should be shown on every single hour in which it occurs?23:46
@rizenbecause we can't get rid of the help system interface until we have the template builder thingy in place23:46
@rizenit's been 18 years since the chernobyl disaster, and still no superheros23:48
@preactionDr. Soresh says it will happen, if we find them.23:49
SDuensinIt happened.  They're just all that invisible guy.23:50
+MrHairgreasecheck out the totally rewritten TextImage Macro23:52
+MrHairgreaseit's almost finised23:53
* MrHairgrease starts crying 23:54
@rizensweet..i made you cry23:54
@rizenyou're using Image::Magick23:55
+MrHairgreasei'm used to it23:55
@rizenbut don't "use" it23:55
+MrHairgreasestill works though23:55
@rizenand...i think i should shame you23:55
@rizenbecause you're not using WebGUI::Graphics23:55
+MrHairgreaseshame me23:55
+MrHairgreasethat's true23:55
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+MrHairgreasei just rewrote the original23:56
+MrHairgreasefixing some bugs23:56
@preactionwhere's WebGUI::Graphics?23:56
+MrHairgreaseand the 1st one was written before webgui image23:56
--- Day changed Fri Mar 09 2007
@rizenok peeps00:21
@rizeni've finally caught up on all my support00:21
@rizenthe question is...should i push out 7.3.12 or should we wait for next week00:21
@rizenit's already pretty late in the day, and I'm guessing that only idiots would upgrade on a friday00:22
* rizen hears crickets00:24
+MrHairgreasei'd say00:25
+MrHairgreasedon't push it00:25
+perlDreamernext week00:26
+perlDreamermore bug fixing00:26
+perlDreamermore WRE work00:26
@rizeni'm going back to working on my caching problem that i started out the week working on00:28
@rizenare you guys aware of just how big of balls you have to have to be me?00:30
@rizenoh...and how perfect and handsome as well00:31
@rizendon't forget that00:31
+MrHairgreaseare you eurotrash too?00:31
@rizeni think you're rubbing off on me00:31
+perlDreamergooeybot, rizen has big balls that are handsome00:31
gooeybotOK, perlDreamer.00:31
+perlDreameror something like that00:32
+perlDreamerDon't do the release today!00:43
@rizenok, i'm doing the release now then00:46
+perlDreamerthere's a little bug in WebGUI I just found00:48
+perlDreamermaybe w00:48
@rizeni wouldn't believe you00:48
@preactionthose are features00:48
@rizenbugs in webgui00:48
+perlDreamertry to add an Asset to a dev site running svn head00:48
@rizenunheard of00:48
@rizenhold on...need to update to make sure i have latest stuff00:49
+perlDreameryou don't need to update00:49
+perlDreamerit's already there00:49
@rizenhold on...need to look at pictures of hot girls00:50
@rizenadded successfully00:51
@rizenno errors generated00:51
+perlDreamernow turn off your slaves and try it again00:51
@rizenkathy dresses you funny00:51
+perlDreamerit's true00:51
+perlDreamerdbSlave will pull a random hash from the slaves array, even if one does not exist and try to make a connection with it00:52
+perlDreamerthat connection will fail and wG has a hissy fit00:52
@rizenit's ok, marjin dresses martin funny as well00:52
+perlDreamer2007/03/08 14:32:42 - WARN - mywebgui.conf - Log::Log4perl::Logger::__ANON__[41] - Couldn't call method add on asset for url: home Root cause: Can't connect to data source , no database driver specified and DBI_DSN env var not set at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 31900:52
@rizeni tested it with the slaves...just not without00:53
@rizendo i get 50% credit?00:53
@rizeni'll fix00:53
@rizeni broke00:53
+perlDreamerI already have it fixed00:53
+perlDreamerjust need to commit00:53
* perlDreamer has problems with commitment00:53
@rizenso you just wanted to fuck with me then?00:53
@rizenrub my nose in it like a dog that shat on your carpet?00:54
+perlDreamerno, you said you were going to do a release00:54
+perlDreamerand I had to assume that you weren't joking00:54
@rizenno i said i wasn't doing a release00:54
+perlDreamer(14:46:34) rizen: ok, i'm doing the release now then00:54
@rizenthat was right after you siad...don't do a release00:55
+perlDreamerI see, you were being contrary00:58
@rizeni'm always contrary00:59
@rizenexcept when i'm not00:59
+perlDreamerjust like you're trying to keep me from dominating the SVN log00:59
@rizensee i'm even contrary to myself00:59
@rizenexcept when i'm not00:59
@rizeni am?00:59
@rizenyou mean with all the commits i did this week?00:59
+perlDreamerevery time I make 19 commits in a row, you add one00:59
@rizennot my intent...just trying to fix client problems01:00
@rizenand if the person i have on staff to fix bugs would ever fix any..there wouldn't be any bugfixes for you to commit01:00
+perlDreameryou have an on staff bug fixer?01:00
@rizenwell 50% of his job is to do bugfixing01:01
@rizenhe and i are going to have to have a chat though..cuz i've noticed that i'm fixing more bugs than him...and i'm not fixing very many01:01
+MrHairgreasemy personal fashion guru is honored01:03
+MrHairgreaseand she sais hi01:03
+MrHairgreaseand I say01:03
+MrHairgreasegood night01:03
+perlDreamergute nacht01:03
@rizenwhat's the url for the irc log?01:05
@rizeni want the url to ckotils screen shot from earlier01:05
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patspamhey all01:23
patspamI'm populating the options in a select box from user input (entries separated by newlines)01:24
patspamdoes wG have an escape function i can use to properly escape the user input?01:24
+perlDreamerlook in WebGUI::HTML01:26
patspamyeah i had a look in there, nothing really seemed to fit the bill01:28
patspamit might be enough to just replace double quotes in the user input01:29
+perlDreamerI thought somebody put a filtering function in the core somewhere, but I could be wrong.01:30
+perlDreamerYou can also ask HTML::Template to do it for you01:30
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patspamah ok, thanks01:30
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patspamI think I'll use HTML::Entities::encode()01:37
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@preactionO'Doyle Rules!02:29
@rizenhe does?02:31
@rizeni'm not saying i disagree.02:31
@rizenwahoo...no mobo on the way02:34
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Radix-wrkno new Heroes for a month and a half :(02:54
@rizeni know..that sux ass02:56
@rizenok..i need an opinion...we have an open programmer position02:56
@rizenshould we pay for advertising on jobs.perl.org02:56
@rizenwisconsinjob.com (biggest jobs site locally)02:57
@rizenor monster02:57
@rizenassume cost doesn't matter02:57
@preactionyou have to pay for jobs.perl.org?02:57
@preactionwell, you did find me on jobs.perl.org02:57
@rizenyou can post for free on jobs.perl.org02:57
@rizenyou fall off the front page within 3 days02:57
@rizenyou can buy a permanent spot on the front page for 30 days02:58
Radix-wrkI'd assume that jobs.perl.org would be the best place to find a perl programmer myself - but depends how determined you are to find someone local I guess.02:58
@rizenlocal would be nice..but not necessary02:58
@rizenbut being local has all sorts of advantages02:59
Radix-wrktry free at least.. if no cost then should be a given02:59
@rizenand by local i mean within driving distance02:59
@rizeni already posted on jobs.perl.org02:59
@rizenand we fell off the list in 3 days02:59
@rizengot 10 resumes02:59
@rizenwe're not allowed to post the job again for 60 days on that site03:00
@rizeni suppose i could rewrite the job description a little and call it a new job03:00
@rizenpreaction...do you know anybody like you...cuz i'd love to hire another you03:01
Radix-wrkhehe.. clone him!03:01
@preactionfind me a cadre of attractive, intelligent womens! i've got your clone right here03:01
@rizenthat will take years03:01
@rizenneed someone sooner03:02
Radix-wrkmight take a few years to train tho03:02
@preactiondamnit, i'm beginning to think there'll be no forced mating at all...03:02
@rizenoh there will be...but it will be to my ugly sister03:02
@rizenand it won't be a bonus, but rather a punishment...if you miss your current deadline03:03
@preactionyou know what they say about the ugly ones...03:05
@preactionbut dude, that's your sister03:05
@preactionit'd be evil to inflict me upon her. i'm an arrogant nerd. what part of that is good?03:06
@rizenwait until you meet my sister...you'll change your tune03:06
@preactioni'll bet she's more attractive than at least two of my ex-gfs :p03:07
@preactioni mean, JT with bewbs, could be hot03:07
* preaction should stop before this gets ugly03:07
@rizenon second thought...i don't want another you on staff03:08
@preactionthere can be only one!03:09
@rizeni think that as an incentive to get all my employees to move to madison, i will declare fridays "Catan Fridays"03:20
@rizenwhere we do nothing but play Settlers of Catan every friday03:20
xdangerlove that game03:25
@rizenoh yeah..check this out...mayfair games uses webgui 03:26
@rizeni'm hoping to bid on the new catanonline.com project03:26
@rizento build the ajax version of catan online03:26
@rizenand build it IN WEBGUI03:27
xdangersweet =)03:28
@preactioni've never played, but wikipedia seems to make it look decently fun03:29
xdangerthere's a free online java version of it somewhere03:30
xdangerA student project or something like that... nothing fancy03:30
xdangerbut now some sleep...03:32
@preactionremind me to take my next paycheque and invest in a decent living room set... this futon is starting to make my bottom hurt like nobody's business03:42
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@rizenpreaction: use your next check to buy a couch03:54
@rizenthis is your reminder03:54
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PedersenMJgood evening04:48
@preactionbonjourno, que pata?04:48
PedersenMJnada mucho, y tu?04:49
@preaction13+ days of working 10 hours a day... i'm tire04:50
PedersenMJnada mucho esta pasando para mi. Solo pregunte lo que pasa para todos de Uds.04:50
@preactioni would totally rather be playing SupCom right now04:50
PedersenMJA proposito, le que dije fue para Radix.04:50
@preactionbut if i start it, i won't get done until 5am04:50
PedersenMJWell, still sounds like you need a day off anyway...04:51
* Radix-wrk 's entire spanish vocabulary comes from reruns of Faulty Towers. He doesn't understand a word of what Ped said.04:51
@preactionRadix-wrk: is fawlty towers worth downloading? i did Black Adder and it sucked04:51
@preactionbut i did Red Dwarf and that was amazing04:52
Radix-wrkpfft.. shame on you04:52
@preactioni'm on Scrubs right now04:52
PedersenMJWell, to translate, one line at a time:04:52
* preaction adjusts his eye-patch04:52
@preactionthere aren't any ninjas in here, right?04:52
Radix-wrkBlack Adder (with the exception of season 1) is one of the greatest comedy shows ever04:52
PedersenMJ"Nothing much, and you?"04:52
@preactionohh, so it's season 1 that sucked04:52
@preactionthere'd be the reason why i didn't get past it04:52
PedersenMJ"Nothing much is happening for me. I just asked what was happening for all of you."04:53
@preactionbut seriously, Red Dwarf tops Black Adder any day of the week04:53
PedersenMJ"By the way, I said that for Radix"04:53
@preaction"He's Arnold, Arnold, Arnold Rimmer / Without him life would be much dimmer."04:53
PedersenMJNever watched either of those shows. Someday, I'll get around to it.04:53
Radix-wrkSeason 1 was pretty poor - but Seasons 2+ are classics, mostly because they got Ben Elton to start writing for them from season 2 onwards04:53
PedersenMJWhat I saw of Fawlty Towers, though, was, well, rather sucky.04:54
@rizenyou're all wrong, The Colbert Report is the best of all time04:54
Radix-wrkRed Dwarf is funny, but lacks the subtlety of Black Adder04:54
@rizenWhich religion wins for best Apocalypse? The Toyota Camry due to it's side impact air bags.04:54
@preactionrizen: have you become spam?04:55
@rizenMost news shows tell the news to you. I swear that as long as I'm on the air, I'll feel the news at you.04:55
@rizeni'm not spam...just telling you quips from the daily show04:56
@rizensorry, from the colbert report04:57
@rizenwhat, i can't recite lines, but you guys can04:57
@rizensuch a double standard in this place04:57
@preactionnono, it just sounded like those spam e-mails04:57
PedersenMJnah, those spam emails make less sense.04:57
PedersenMJI didn't recognize the quotes, but could see there was some form of logic to them.04:57
PedersenMJWhat's really scary is that I actually *did* see some logic in there.04:58
@preaction"Star search at age, determined diva was? Mediatilt ya head back, discusses balancing love medley livefrom."05:00
@preactionit's like something out of an eliza-bot05:00
PedersenMJNow *that* sounds like a spam.05:01
@preactionis there a cache that gets built for lineage or something? it seems the first page view of a page that has a large number of descendants takes a while and does a lot of db queries05:05
@preactionthis is after a migration script is run05:05
@rizenis there a nav on that page?05:06
@rizenevery asset in that nav has to be instanciated05:06
@preactionthere is a nav asset, but all the assets are hidden05:06
@rizenwhich is why large hierarchical navs in webgui are a bad idea05:06
@rizendoesn't matter if they are hidden05:06
@preactionand later page views do not do the 5300 queries05:06
@rizenit still has to instanciate them to find out that it's hidden05:06
@preactionthat doesn't sound good. why not just "where isHidden IS NULL"?05:07
@preactionbecause it could skip a lineage step, i see05:07
@rizenthe problem is that we need to skip descendants of anything that's hidden05:08
@rizenso we need to know what's hidden05:08
@rizenand find out the lineage of that05:08
@rizenbecause the descendants might not be hidden05:08
@rizenand then skip anything that also has that lineage05:08
@preactionright. it could skip the hidden one, and that one might have children that are hidden (i just didn't write it into english very well)05:08
@rizenwhy can't you just trust that i'm a genius05:08
@preactionoh... i.uh.. no reason05:09
@rizennavigation is roughly the hardest thing that webgui has to do05:09
@preactionamen to that05:09
@preactionand the flexibility of the nav asset is definitely a testament to your genius05:09
@preactionability to make breadcrumb trails using it, pure gold05:09
@rizenthe original genius for the nav asset is actually len kranendonk05:11
@rizeni just refined his idea to make it what it is05:11
@rizeni'm not a genius05:11
@rizenbut i do wish i could make the nav asset less hard on the system05:11
@preactionperhaps add "include classes"? i mean, most of the extra-numerous things are Threads and Events and similar assets. so if someone wants them in their nav, they have to add them to the nav themselves?05:13
@rizenthat would probably be somewhat helpful05:15
@rizenbut maybe more useful would be "include only containers"05:15
@rizenyours is more flexible05:16
@preactionit'd be easier, sure05:16
@rizenbut how often are you going to select stuff other than containers05:16
@rizenexcept when you want everything05:16
@preactiontrue, but navigation calls $asset->get, no?05:16
@preactionto get the vars?05:16
@rizenwhy do you ask?05:17
@preactionyou could totally subvert the entire navigation asset to make a "master calendar" or a "all forum threads" thingy05:17
@rizenit doesn't get the whole set of vars though05:17
@preactionoh, nm05:17
@rizenit only gets those relevant to nav05:17
@preactionthat idea remains an idea, once i find a way to implement it05:17
@rizentitle, menutitle, synopsis etc05:17
@rizenit could be a really cool idea05:18
@preactionif done properly ;)05:18
@rizenbut you'd have to prove to me that it would not only add cool functionality, but that it would increase performance as well05:18
@rizenthe nav and the CS don't get to add anything unless they also increase performance05:18
@preactionoh, no, the nav wouldn't get it. i'd make a new wobject to do this (for the reason you said)05:19
@preactionbut i think best bet for the nav restricting classes might either be a radio list ("All", "Containers", or "Choose Your Destiny:") or just a list with two extra buttons, one for "Select All" and one for "Select Container Assets"05:19
@preactionthe default being "Containers" for anyone with a uiLevel less than X (X being a larger number than 5)05:20
@rizeni've decided to kill you05:20
@rizenand provide blood transfusions if necessary05:20
@rizento draw it out05:20
@preactionpour gasoline in my eyes to make sure i don't pass out?05:21
@preactiona new form element! WebGUI::Form::AssetClasses05:21
@preactioni could totally use that on the meta-wobject thingy i described earlier05:22
@preactioncould be worse, i haven't been able to touch the webgui core in weeks05:22
@rizeni've been doing the job of 3 people for the week05:23
@rizenand pretty poorly too05:23
@preactionwell, you're only two men!05:23
@rizeni know05:23
@preactionget vrby off his lazy butt05:24
@preactionor Kristy, what does she do around here anyway?05:24
@rizencurrently she's doing what you wanted to do05:24
@preactionoh, right, vacation05:24
@rizenwhich was go out to DC and hang out with the DoS peeps05:24
@preactionbut then again, she's doing training. so it's really a tossup05:25
@rizenhave you found my new employee yet?05:25
@preactioni've been trying the mitosis thing, but i keep just coming up with dead skin cells05:25
@rizenactually, here's an incentive for you05:26
@rizenthe faster we find another good perl guy or girl, the less you have to work05:26
@preactionhmm... guilt-free weekends05:26
@preactionwhere are these resume sites? don't they let me browse for free?05:27
@preactionwait, girl? there are no girls on the internet!05:29
@rizenwe have a girl working for us05:29
@rizenor did you forget05:29
@rizenwe actually have 205:29
@rizenkristi and tera05:29
@preactioni haven't met tera, admittedly05:29
@preactionbut, case in point, kristi isn't hanging out here ;)05:29
@preactions/the internet/the IRC/05:30
@rizentrue..but neither does vrby or steve05:30
@rizenwhich must make them women05:30
@preactionwell... now that you mention it05:30
@preactiondoesn't mean there aren't guys who are not on the IRC, it just means that all the men on IRC are men, all the women are men, and all the teenagers are FBI agents05:31
* PedersenMJ reads the job ad.05:52
PedersenMJMy weaknesses: Very little javascript. Just haven't ever done much with it. Have worked with SQL, but usually stayed with PostGreSQL.05:53
PedersenMJOh, and I'm not in WI.05:53
PedersenMJThe rest, though, I've got experience with. Which makes me ask if I should send in a resume?05:54
@preactionyou've hung out here: do you think you could handle not being able to click "close" to shut us off?05:54
PedersenMJHeck, the only reason I've actually closed the window was due to needing to go to bed. And if I had the courage to open up the irc ports at work, I'd log in during the day.05:55
@preactioncouldn't hurt to submit the resume05:56
PedersenMJI'll check it out tomorrow night, and make sure it's up to date, before I do so.05:57
@preactionfrom what i understand, the opening's for client work. so you'd basically be doing what i do05:57
@preactionsome core dev, but mostly client projects05:57
@preactionsome support05:58
@preactiondepending, of course, on where the powers that be are going with the new hiring05:58
@rizenis that me?05:59
@rizenthe powers that be?06:00
PedersenMJI would think so, yes.06:00
@preactionyou and the operations manager06:00
@rizeni should put a new alert notice in my irc client06:00
@rizenfor "the powers that be"06:00
@preactionbut how can we refer to you without having a notice pop up at inopportune times06:00
@preactionlike when you're spending time with your special lady06:01
@preactionor your wife?06:01
@rizeni'll just turn off irc when that would be a problem06:01
PedersenMJSo, jt, I'll ask you directly (since subtlety has never been a strong point for me): Should I send in my resume?06:02
@preactionturn... "off"... irc? qu'est-ce que c'est06:02
@rizeni can't rule you out until i know what you can do06:03
@rizenlikewise i can't rule you in either06:03
@rizensend it to info@plainblack.com06:03
@rizenok so i've just proven a theory06:03
@rizenwebgui is actually slower with cache in some cases06:03
@rizenthan without06:03
PedersenMJI'll do so. I just want to make sure it's up to date.06:04
@rizenif the file cache grows too big, it can become 10 times slower than without cache06:04
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+perlDreamerclose them all, rizen!07:15
@rizeni'm closing what i can man07:15
@rizeni'm working on the db fatal sql form one right now07:15
@rizenalsmost fixed07:15
+perlDreamerI thought we had to wait until exceptions in 7.4 to fix that one07:16
@rizenwe don't need exceptions to fix this07:16
@rizenroy said that07:16
@rizenhe's wrong07:16
@rizenas often he is07:16
@rizenone more down07:22
PedersenMJg'night all. definitely bed time for me.07:23
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@rizenoops...didn't take into account what you were doing with dbNotAvailable07:27
@rizenhave to implement something simpler07:27
+perlDreamerwhat did I do?07:28
@rizeni assume you created dbNotAvailable07:28
+perlDreamerI don't think so07:29
* perlDreamer goes to run svn blame07:29
@rizendoesn't matter07:29
+perlDreamerI need you to remind me if we want to fix the calendar bug with the single day view of a multi-view event07:38
@rizenmulti day you mean?07:39
+perlDreamerthat one07:39
@rizenmaybe i don't understand the problem, but i don't know how you can show a multiday event in a single day display07:39
@rizenby definition you're showing only one day07:39
@rizenso how can you see mutliple days?07:39
+perlDreameryou can't.  but if you go to the day view for any of the 3 days that event should show07:40
+perlDreameras all day07:40
@rizenoh yeah it should definitely show07:40
@rizenok. so that's what i was missing07:40
@rizenyes, that should be fixed07:40
+perlDreamerman, it's easy to alter the SQL to find the events, but it makes the display logic a lot more complex.07:49
+perlDreamerrizen: do you know if DateTime objects have an iterator?07:54
@rizendon't know what you mean07:54
+perlDreamerI need to iterate over days in a month.  It would be very convenient if each iterated object was not the day, but a DateTime object of that day already set up07:55
+perlDreamerkind of like07:55
+perlDreamerforeach my $monthDay ( $dt->startDate .. $dt2->endDate)07:56
@rizeni see07:56
@rizenthere's nothing like that that i know of07:56
@rizenbut you could do a while loop easy07:56
@rizenbecause there is a $dt->add method07:57
@rizenso just keep adding a day to it07:57
@rizeneach time07:57
+perlDreamercool, that should work right07:57
@rizennearly every bug left out there is calendar releated08:01
+perlDreamerare you bug fixing tomorrow?08:01
@rizensupport + fixing08:01
@rizenfirst bug on tap is that caching one08:01
@rizenfrom mlamar08:01
+perlDreamerpriority bug fix?08:02
@rizenno...just pissing me off08:02
+perlDreamerthat's the same thing, but it doesn't pay as well08:02
@rizeni hope i'm done with priority stuff for the week08:02
@rizeni fixed a lot of shit already this week08:02
+perlDreameryou were a js hacking fiend08:03
@rizeni hate trying to fix tinymce bugs08:03
@rizenit's so touchy08:03
+perlDreamerDo we need to do some additional testing on these new fixes?08:04
@rizenwhat new fixes?08:04
@rizeneverything we've done so far?08:04
+perlDreamerthe tinymce fixes08:04
@rizeni spent 3 hours testing the changes i made08:04
@rizeni think they work08:05
@rizenand tomorrow the client will have a dozen people testing them08:05
+perlDreamerwe do seem to be making more side effect bugs than we used to08:05
+perlDreamerfixing direct bugs but injecting new bugs sideways08:05
@rizeni may have to rewrite the SQL report just because the peeps that have mutilated it into what it is08:06
@rizenwere on crack08:06
@rizenit's totally hard to understand these days08:06
+perlDreamerPBP it to death08:06
@rizenthat's what i'm thinking08:06
@rizenas i've been going here i've been trying to do that08:06
@rizenall the stuff i've committed has had new comments, white space, }\n else { breaks08:07
+perlDreamerthat's called uncuddled elses08:07
@rizeni knew there was a name..08:07
@rizen.but couldn't remember08:07
+perlDreamerkristi's wrong search one should be an easy one to close if you need a breather from the heavy stuff.08:08
+perlDreamerbut knowmad will want to know about phrase searching08:08
@rizeni need a nightcap08:08
@rizeni'm all pow for the day08:08
+perlDreamerPrisoner of WebGUI?08:09
@rizenjust sprained my brain on the sql report08:09
@rizenpow = hawaiian for done08:09
+perlDreamerand all this time I thought you were teaching me Chicagoan08:09
@rizenmy ex fiance was hawaiian, and that's one of the things i picked up08:10
+perlDreamerwell, we'll see you tomorrow then08:11
+perlDreamersame gooey time, same gooey channel08:11
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@preactionperlbot .nl17:32
perlbot.nl is Netherlands17:32
gooeyboti already had it that way, perlbot.17:32
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+perlDreamergood work madison, wi18:32
@rizenwe are almost always in the top five best places to live in the nation as well18:33
+perlDreamerYou're still trying to seduce us all to move out there, aren't you?18:34
+perlDreamerthink about it, no more out of time zone phone calls18:34
+perlDreamermeeting with customers at the pub/coffeehouse down the way18:34
+perlDreameryour life would be so easy18:34
@rizeni'm not trying to ask customers to move here18:34
@rizenbut certainly all the devs18:34
@rizenand contributors18:35
@rizenyou and crythias should move here18:35
+perlDreamerWebGUI, sponsored by Madison, WI18:35
+perlDreameryou should get the city government to use wG18:35
+crythiasdon't think wife would like.18:35
+perlDreamerkathy does like snow18:35
@rizenwhy not? just show her that article18:35
@rizenand she'll be all over it18:36
+perlDreameroh, man.   The tests are screwed18:57
@rizeni love screwed tests18:59
+perlDreamerDo you eat them plain or with ketchup?19:00
@rizenmayo usually19:00
@rizenketchup has too much sugar19:00
+perlDreamersidebar: Weather::Com needs to be installed on the smoke-test machine19:00
@rizenit is installed19:00
@rizenor at least roy better have installed it when he did the upgrade19:01
+perlDreamer"Can't locate object method "definition" via package WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData "19:01
+perlDreamerCan't locate Weather/Simple.pm in @INC19:02
@rizeni'm checking it19:02
@rizenhold your horsefeathers together19:02
@rizenyou do have horsefeathers don't you?19:02
@rizenit's installed19:03
@rizendid you paste that?19:03
+perlDreamerYes, from last night's smoke test run19:03
@rizenit's supposed to be weather::com::simple19:03
@rizensomeone changed it19:04
@rizengoing to svn19:05
@rizento get evidence to hang someone19:05
+perlDreamerthat's me19:05
* SDuensin loves "blame".19:05
+perlDreamerI'll save you the trip19:05
@rizenwhy do you ruin all my beautiful plans?19:06
+perlDreamerI'm addicted to abuse and rejection.19:06
@rizenare you changing it back?19:07
+perlDreamerYes, right after I make sure I have the right module installed on my end19:07
@rizenand for the love of all that is pure and good...why would you have changed the name?19:07
+perlDreamerI installed the wrong weather module19:08
@rizenyou hate me?19:08
@rizenis that it?19:08
@rizenyou want each release we put out to be worse than the last?19:08
@rizenis my guilt trip working?19:09
* perlDreamer goes to iron his hands19:09
@rizeni say off with his head19:11
@rizenwho's with me?19:11
* rizen hears crickets19:11
@rizenok...then i say, live and be free19:12
@rizenwho's with me?19:12
* rizen still hearing crickets19:12
@rizenapparently no one cares whether you live or die pd19:12
* perlDreamer is used to getting death threats19:13
* perlDreamer is most aggrieved19:13
@rizenwhat's funny is i just don't expect you to make mistakes like that19:14
@rizenyou seem to be more careful than everyone (including me)19:14
@rizenoh well...no biggie19:14
@rizengood thing i didn't release yesterday though19:14
+perlDreamerYes it is19:15
@rizenand good thing for smoke tests19:15
@rizenok...must go get ears lowered now19:15
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cap10morganIf Spectre doesn't run for awhile, will committed version tags get lost?19:54
cap10morgani have a site where there's lots of locked assets because spectre wasn't running, but now that it is, it doesn't seem to be unlocking them and committing their changes...19:54
cap10morgannm, it was just backed up. working fine after all. :)20:13
@rizenyeah, spectre won't lose anything20:27
@rizenall data is persisted to the database until spectre has verified it's completion20:27
@rizenso unless you have a corrupt file system20:28
@rizenor you muck around in the db20:28
@rizenyou'll never lose anything20:28
+perlDreamerrizen: do the smoke tests log coverage some place?20:30
@rizenit's supposed to, but doesn't appear to be doing that20:31
+perlDreamerokay, I'll double check the coverage of the tests as I fix them20:31
@rizeni can either fix bugs, or look into that though, so i think i'll keep fixing bugs20:32
@rizenhow come you never hear anyone call someone "sweet tits" anymore20:37
@rizeni think it should make a comeback20:37
+perlDreamermust me a mid-west thing20:39
@rizeni think it's just an old 80s movie thing, where there's a bar scene20:40
@rizeni've never actually heard a real person utter it20:40
cap10morganmy roommate calls me that all the time21:04
@rizenare you serious?21:08
cap10morganyep, he uses it pretty often21:15
cap10morganespecially in situations where the person is clearly not a "sweet tits"21:15
cap10morgansuch as yours truly21:16
+perlDreameris wG safe from the Time Zone changes happening on Sunday?21:20
@rizenfirst of all..tz changes are no big deal21:26
@rizenfor webgui21:26
@rizenso even if the tz was screwed up21:26
@rizenit's not going to cause millions in damage or anything21:27
@rizenhowever, you should update your tz file21:27
+perlDreamershould we put a note out there for other users to do the same?21:43
@rizeni'll do an advisory21:49
+perlDreamerYou're a good man, Charlie Brown22:01
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+perlDreamerThere's only 1 test left to fix22:03
+perlDreamershould be back to clean running soon22:03
* perlDreamer goes running, be back later22:08
@rizenso we got an applicant named martin23:06
@rizendo we need to throw it out just so we don't conflict with MrHairgrease?23:06
+perlDreamerhe must admit that he is not eurotrash and abstain from pomade of any fair23:27
+perlDreamerif he should claim to be eurotrash in name or deed, then take him to the gate of the city, lay hands on him and stone him until death.23:27
+perlDreamerwith stones23:27
@rizenconsider it done23:29
+perlDreameroh, and no eating blood or strangled animals, either23:30
* perlDreamer just got done reading Deuteronomy23:30
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--- Day changed Sat Mar 10 2007
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dwalisserin the macro list of the webgui config is there a way that I can specify the arguments to the macro, or is this just an alias of the macro name?00:12
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+perlDreamerIt's just an alias to the name00:13
dwalisserok thanx00:13
+perlDreameralthough, it would be slick if you could define meta-macros with preconfigured arguments00:14
+perlDreamerKind of like prototypes of Assets00:14
dwalisseryeah, I have SQL macros that get reused everywhere and are pretty ugly to look at00:14
+perlDreamerhave you tried to use a snippet to wrap them?00:14
dwalisserno... what macro would I use to call in the snippet?00:16
dwalisserI like that, thanx00:17
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+perlDreamerrizen: I fixed the last failing session test06:50
+perlDreamerTomorrow's run should be clean again06:50
+perlDreamerYou are officially cleared to release06:51
@rizenno release06:51
@rizennot ever06:51
+perlDreamerYou're right.  We'll just stay at 7.3.1106:52
@rizenwhy not, really06:52
+perlDreamerIt's for the best, otherwise the second release would be unlucky06:52
+perlDreamerDo you think anyone would notice if we didn't release a .13?06:52
@rizennot only that...but we seem to break more than we fix each time06:53
+perlDreamerThat's just me.  I'll take a break and just write tests for a while.06:53
@rizenhehe...no way06:53
@rizenwe need these damn bugs fixed06:53
+perlDreamerwhich ones?06:53
@rizenall of them06:53
@rizeni'm going to continue all next week on it06:54
@rizenunless i get sucked into some client thing06:54
+perlDreamerwhat about the WRE?06:54
@rizenon hold06:54
@rizenuntil we get 7.3 done06:54
@rizenit's pissing me off06:54
@rizenactually it's not 7.3 that's pissing me off06:55
@rizenbut rather that it seems we can't clean off the damn bug board06:55
@rizenman that gets my goat06:55
+perlDreamerI have mixed feeling about that.06:55
+perlDreamerI'm tired of fixing bugs06:55
+perlDreamerbut the more we fix now is less we fix later06:55
@rizenon that you're right06:55
@rizenbut i just don't want there to be anymore bugs06:55
@rizenhow can there be this many06:55