| --- Log opened Sun Apr 01 00:00:24 2007 | ||
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| @vayde | cap10morgan, how irritating is that leading space problem in DateTime? | 01:54 |
|---|---|---|
| cap10morgan | vayde: heh, pretty annoying | 01:54 |
| cap10morgan | oh, that's probably already reported as a bug, isn't it? | 01:54 |
| cap10morgan | it just occurred to me that i didn't even check... :/ | 01:54 |
| @vayde | The reason I ask, is that's the proper behavior of the perl DateTime module | 01:54 |
| cap10morgan | vayde: oh... | 01:55 |
| cap10morgan | suck | 01:55 |
| @vayde | Yeah, you have been burining up the bug reports | 01:55 |
| cap10morgan | haha, it's true | 01:55 |
| @vayde | I can figure a way to work around it, but i'm wondering if that's put in there for a reason. | 01:55 |
| @vayde | I don't know what that reason might be though. | 01:55 |
| cap10morgan | vayde: yeah, seems pretty weird | 01:55 |
| cap10morgan | the month %M one doesn't do that | 01:56 |
| @vayde | that's cos there's a workaround in the wG version. | 01:56 |
| @vayde | now that you point that out, that tells me what to do. thanks | 01:57 |
| @vayde | I just didn't want to change it before giving someone a chance to point out why the leading space was necessary in some obscure way. | 01:57 |
| @vayde | Fixed your '+' in emails too btw | 02:00 |
| cap10morgan | yeah, i saw that thanks | 02:11 |
| cap10morgan | thanks for fixing this one too :) | 02:11 |
| cap10morgan | if you told a workflow to run in the scheduler (i.e. the manual "Run" link), and it just didn't do anything (nothing in the log, not even at info level), what would be the first things to check? | 02:12 |
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| --- Day changed Mon Apr 02 2007 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | vayde! You're up late tonight | 07:42 |
| @vayde | Late? Oh I don't know | 07:43 |
| @vayde | Mostly been hangin out hopin you'd show up | 07:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I was in Seattle over the weekend | 07:44 |
| +perlDreamer | any luck with your www_view stuff? | 07:45 |
| @vayde | I haven't really messed with it this weekend. I was hunting other bugs | 07:45 |
| +perlDreamer | I buttoned up the isSingleton one just now. | 07:46 |
| +perlDreamer | isSingleton wasn't checked in www_editSaveWorkflow | 07:46 |
| +perlDreamer | :( | 07:46 |
| @vayde | It really only showed up in a test wobject I was playing with, so I chalked it up to my mistake. However I get the same puzzler with debugs put into Asset.pm | 07:46 |
| @vayde | damn. I was gonna start the day tomorrow with a simple one. | 07:46 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, sorry about that. But I know why you're having www_view problems. | 07:47 |
| +perlDreamer | Wobjects inherit from Wobject.pm | 07:47 |
| @vayde | Please enlighten me | 07:47 |
| +perlDreamer | Wobject.pm's www_view does not call SUPER | 07:47 |
| @vayde | I must have mistyped | 07:48 |
| +perlDreamer | you put stuff into Wobject.pm's www_view and it doesn't get called? | 07:48 |
| @vayde | that works allright | 07:48 |
| @vayde | putting stuff into Asset.pm 's www_view method doesn't work | 07:49 |
| @vayde | putting them in both yields Wobject.pm 's message only. | 07:49 |
| @vayde | hence it looked like somehow the base class was overriding the derived class | 07:49 |
| +perlDreamer | it is | 07:49 |
| +perlDreamer | Wobject.pm has a www_view | 07:49 |
| +perlDreamer | it doesn't call SUPER | 07:50 |
| +perlDreamer | so it's overridden, not extended | 07:50 |
| @vayde | Oh duh! Wobject inherits from Asset, not the other way around | 07:50 |
| @vayde | I was thinking Article, and putting my statements into Asset | 07:51 |
| @vayde | Well, I knew there was a problem, and it turns out that problem is me! | 07:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't suppose preaction said anything about MrHairGrease's proposed Post.pm fix? | 07:52 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: didn't work. | 07:52 |
| +perlDreamer | bummer | 07:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I've been drooling over this | 07:54 |
| +perlDreamer | http://sourceforge.net/projects/smolder | 07:54 |
| +perlDreamer | Back in December I did some P6 test hacking. | 08:00 |
| +perlDreamer | They use something that looks like Smolder (may actually be) | 08:00 |
| +perlDreamer | It was awesome | 08:00 |
| @vayde | Hmm. No, it's not just me. Putting the following into Article.pm yields nothing: $self->session->errorHandler->warn('foo'); print STDERR "foo \n"; | 08:01 |
| @vayde | neither on the page or in the logs. It's like the method isn't being called. | 08:02 |
| +perlDreamer | restarted Apache after changing it? | 08:03 |
| @vayde | yeah, couple of times | 08:03 |
| @vayde | and dumped the caceh | 08:03 |
| @vayde | cache | 08:03 |
| @vayde | Been wracking my brain trying to find out how that would even be possible, and if it is, how we're doing it. Seems to be an interesting trick. | 08:05 |
| @vayde | even this doesn't work: die "ARRRGH! \n"; | 08:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm getting the same thing | 08:09 |
| +perlDreamer | Wobject's www_view is being called | 08:09 |
| @vayde | Oh good, then it's not just me. | 08:09 |
| @vayde | rizen said something about it being a wG thing, but didn't have time to explain. I may not have communicated what was going on precisely though | 08:10 |
| +perlDreamer | hang on, I have an idea | 08:10 |
| +perlDreamer | The article you're looking at, is it inside a Layout? | 08:11 |
| @vayde | Page layout? Yes. | 08:11 |
| +perlDreamer | that is why | 08:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I think | 08:11 |
| +perlDreamer | Layout calls the child Asset's prepareView directly | 08:11 |
| +perlDreamer | so it never invokes www_view | 08:12 |
| +perlDreamer | The Wobject call is from the Layout, not from the article | 08:12 |
| +perlDreamer | if you view the Article URL directly, you should see it pop-up | 08:12 |
| @vayde | Since Layout basically means a page, isn't everything technically in a Layout? | 08:12 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 08:12 |
| +perlDreamer | Assets, in wG 6.3, were originally concieved to be "pageless". | 08:13 |
| +perlDreamer | you wouldn't need a container Asset to have a single Article. | 08:13 |
| +perlDreamer | But most entry level wG users couldn't get the idea into their heards, so the Layout is used everywhere | 08:13 |
| @vayde | Aha! Light dawns on shady brook! | 08:14 |
| +perlDreamer | but if you go directly to any Asset's URL, it will use whatever page style it is configured to have and render you "a page". | 08:14 |
| @vayde | If I call it directly it dies screaming. That's gratifying | 08:14 |
| +perlDreamer | It's one of the hiccups people have with the CS | 08:14 |
| +perlDreamer | some want it to remain "embedded" in the current page, rather than pushing down into the core CS asset itself | 08:15 |
| +perlDreamer | this also means that cache specific behavior for the Article is not propagated up to the page through www_view. | 08:16 |
| +perlDreamer | that's worth bringing up to JT, since viewing an Article on a page will increase the load on the server | 08:17 |
| @vayde | I'll mention it to him | 08:18 |
| +perlDreamer | tomorrow, if you like, I can show you the test scripts | 08:19 |
| +perlDreamer | I've been told that my tests are a little confusing | 08:19 |
| @vayde | I'll take any help you have time/interest in offering | 08:19 |
| @vayde | especially when it prevents me from bugging JT or preaction. I sense they cringe when I log on | 08:20 |
| +Radix-wrk | "But most entry level wG users couldn't get the idea into their heards, so the Layout is used everywhere" - not just entry level wG users - I'm still this way and don't think that will ever change to be honest. | 08:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I must be making large (and false) assumptions. | 08:22 |
| +perlDreamer | my apologies | 08:22 |
| +Radix-wrk | none taken ;) | 08:22 |
| @vayde | I didn't really think of 'Layout' and 'Page Layout' as the same thing. I just figured the page layout thing was a fancy interface to the page's properties. | 08:22 |
| +perlDreamer | it is | 08:23 |
| +perlDreamer | Layout is just a container. | 08:24 |
| +perlDreamer | Like a Folder | 08:24 |
| +perlDreamer | The Wiki is also pretty much a container. | 08:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and the CS | 08:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and the Calendar | 08:24 |
| +perlDreamer | they don't really do much beyond aggregate data from their children | 08:24 |
| @vayde | I see that now. Thanks. | 08:24 |
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| @vayde | Well, that's it for me. 'night all | 08:48 |
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| nuba | so, while using WWW::Mechanize to mass migrate some content to Articles w/ file attachements i had to manually add the file input to the form before posting it, as it is currently added by javascript. should I file that as a bug ? | 11:51 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning. | 15:49 |
| pjesi | hi SDuensin | 15:50 |
| SDuensin | Hey pjesi | 15:51 |
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| preaction_ | can someone here try to access http://commctrl.com and get a default webgui install page? | 18:46 |
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| @preaction | just trying to check that my router is working right | 18:46 |
| ckotil | its just loading and loading.... | 18:47 |
| ckotil | timed out | 18:47 |
| @preaction | that's not as good | 18:48 |
| @preaction | that sounds like what manuel does, since it's trying to run Perl CGI on a 90mhz machine. | 18:48 |
| @preaction | when the router should be pointing to wyoh... | 18:48 |
| ckotil | heh | 18:49 |
| pjesi | I get a page | 18:49 |
| @preaction | pjesi: a page with green on the top? | 18:49 |
| pjesi | sorry I dont | 18:50 |
| * pjesi looked at the wrong tab | 18:50 | |
| @preaction | rofl... my DNS provider reset my settings? | 18:52 |
| ckotil | I just experienced some wierd shit, was editing an asset, but never got attached to a version tag. | 18:52 |
| @preaction | what kind of asset? | 18:53 |
| ckotil | folder asset | 18:53 |
| @preaction | that is weird | 18:54 |
| ckotil | tell me about it. quite scary too | 18:56 |
| ckotil | the manager caught the problem. | 18:56 |
| ckotil | i have yet to expirience it | 18:56 |
| ckotil | im hoping its related to me clearing the file cache via a scheduled task | 18:57 |
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| perlmonkey2 | preaction: run your own DNS cacheing service and no more problems with DNS providers :) | 19:01 |
| @preaction | i lied, nothing in the DNS changed | 19:01 |
| @preaction | the router restarted itself | 19:01 |
| @preaction | everything Should work | 19:01 |
| @preaction | it works internally, with my /etc/hosts files updated accordingly | 19:01 |
| ckotil | damn, WebGUI dir is at half a gig now | 19:12 |
| SDuensin | That's all? You're not trying! | 19:13 |
| ckotil | good to hear | 19:14 |
| ckotil | pastebin paste | 19:14 |
| ckotil | perlbot paste | 19:15 |
| perlbot | Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. | 19:15 |
| ckotil | http://sial.org/pbot/23946 | 19:15 |
| SDuensin | I've got one of about 5 sites half built and I'm at 1.5. Moving it to my host is going to take forever. :-) | 19:15 |
| ckotil | weatherdata is really screwing me | 19:15 |
| pjesi | topic is old :) | 19:17 |
| @preaction | ckotil: you're going to have to comment out the sub that adds that column so that your upgrade can run successfully, after you restore from backup | 19:18 |
| @preaction | one of these days someone should remind me to ask TMRFE for a week or two to build a better upgrade system | 19:19 |
| ckotil | ok. so i need to restore my back up first? | 19:19 |
| ckotil | then run upgrade.pl with the commented out sub? | 19:19 |
| @preaction | yes, that upgrade (.10-.11) didn't get to finish because it died in the middle | 19:20 |
| ckotil | ok, ya i see an open version tag | 19:20 |
| @preaction | but the upgrade.pl script kept on going, which i would consider a bug but JT would call an RFE | 19:20 |
| ckotil | heh | 19:21 |
| ckotil | so this sub updateTemplates{} | 19:21 |
| @preaction | no | 19:21 |
| @preaction | there's a section after WebGUI::Session->open that is a list of subroutine calls | 19:21 |
| @preaction | nevermind, there's only that one thing in that upgrade anyway | 19:22 |
| ckotil | in updrade_7.3.10-7.3.11.pl? | 19:22 |
| @preaction | yeah, after my $session = start(); | 19:22 |
| @preaction | it's fixWeather or something | 19:22 |
| ckotil | got it. | 19:23 |
| ckotil | can i just rerun the upgrade script or must i bring up my backup? | 19:23 |
| @preaction | how long has it been since the backup? | 19:23 |
| ckotil | just did it a minute ago | 19:23 |
| ckotil | jsut before the upgrade | 19:24 |
| @preaction | it would probably be best to bring up the backup | 19:24 |
| ckotil | k | 19:24 |
| @preaction | somehow your site got the additional weather column without running the upgrade | 19:24 |
| ckotil | i was told to add it while trying to fix bug | 19:24 |
| ckotil | :/ | 19:24 |
| @preaction | that'd be why | 19:25 |
| @preaction | it's best to bring up the backup in case something in the 7.3.11 upgrade relies on something in the upgrade that failed | 19:25 |
| ckotil | k | 19:25 |
| @preaction | in this case, it probably did not happen, but better safe than sorry and other trite expressions | 19:25 |
| ckotil | always | 19:26 |
| ckotil | upgrade complete | 19:32 |
| ckotil | thx | 19:32 |
| ckotil | mmm paginated commite version goodness | 19:45 |
| ckotil | commited | 19:45 |
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| SDuensin | Hey rizen | 19:54 |
| @rizen | howdy | 19:54 |
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| +snapcount | anybody home? | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | hola | 21:08 |
| pjesi | hæ | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | how you doing, man? | 21:08 |
| +snapcount | life is rough... I have to wait for at least 2 hours before WoW downloads | 21:09 |
| +snapcount | =) | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I've been feeding your crickets | 21:09 |
| +snapcount | heh | 21:09 |
| +snapcount | I should enter the style wcc | 21:10 |
| +snapcount | that would be funny | 21:10 |
| +snapcount | Steve would get nausea | 21:10 |
| +snapcount | lime green with orange | 21:10 |
| +snapcount | lots of <blink> tags | 21:10 |
| +snapcount | show off my design prowess | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | blink is so 90's | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | we need to update it for y2k | 21:11 |
| +snapcount | I can bring it back | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | we'll call it the "bling" tag | 21:11 |
| +snapcount | there ya go | 21:11 |
| +snapcount | I haven't had a chance to check out the acme entries... | 21:13 |
| +snapcount | any good ones? | 21:13 |
| * SDuensin thinks so. :-) | 21:13 | |
| +snapcount | what did you submit? | 21:13 |
| SDuensin | The HGR Macro. | 21:13 |
| +snapcount | what does it do? | 21:14 |
| SDuensin | Lets you use Apple II high resolution images as assets. :-D | 21:14 |
| +snapcount | is there a reason that you couldn't do that without the macro? | 21:15 |
| +snapcount | I don't really know what an Apple II high res image is or what's unique about it | 21:15 |
| SDuensin | It reads them right off Apple II ProDOS formatted disk images and displays them as PNGs. | 21:15 |
| pjesi | haha | 21:15 |
| -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."] | 21:15 | |
| SDuensin | Apple II images are 240x192 six color images saved as an 8k raw memory dump of the video page of an Apple II. | 21:16 |
| SDuensin | They're encoded really funky like. Woz managed to get six displayable colors (there are actually 8, but two are white and two are black) out of a 1 bit memory map. | 21:16 |
| +snapcount | well that definitely sounds like an acme contrib =) | 21:17 |
| +snapcount | nicely done | 21:17 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 21:17 |
| SDuensin | I figured that was weird enough. | 21:17 |
| +snapcount | I'm fresh out of Apple II's though | 21:17 |
| +snapcount | so I guess I can't try it out | 21:17 |
| SDuensin | I put a sample image in the archive. | 21:18 |
| +snapcount | so the image can be stored on other OS's and still requires the macro? | 21:18 |
| +snapcount | what does it do... translate to a web friendly binary format? | 21:18 |
| SDuensin | Makes it a PNG | 21:19 |
| +snapcount | ok the light bulb is starting to come on | 21:19 |
| +snapcount | sounds pretty cool | 21:19 |
| SDuensin | You can have multiple 8k pictures stored in a 140k ProDOS disk image. | 21:20 |
| pjesi | SDuensin: how long time did it take you? | 21:20 |
| SDuensin | Few days. WebGUI API was the hardest part. :-) | 21:20 |
| +snapcount | I want to write a code breaking wobject | 21:20 |
| +snapcount | for substitution ciphers | 21:21 |
| +snapcount | not brute force though, that's gay | 21:21 |
| +snapcount | I was going to have it use a frequency method | 21:21 |
| SDuensin | Do a one-time pad. Each run needs a new PM module. | 21:21 |
| +snapcount | based on the language the message is in | 21:21 |
| cap10morgan | so, we have around 55 domains in our webgui 7 installation | 21:22 |
| cap10morgan | but spectre seems to be getting further and further behind | 21:22 |
| +snapcount | The thing that interested me was the algorithim for breaking the cipher so I was going to write it all from scratch | 21:22 |
| +snapcount | I just like to use WebGUI because of the API | 21:22 |
| +snapcount | granted it's probably more familiar to me =) | 21:22 |
| cap10morgan | the server has plenty more horsepower to throw at it, but how do i tell spectre to use it? | 21:23 |
| cap10morgan | i've tried increasing the number of maxWorkers to 25 | 21:23 |
| cap10morgan | what else should i do? | 21:23 |
| +snapcount | what is spectre getting hung up on? | 21:23 |
| cap10morgan | the workflow queue just keeps getting longer and longer | 21:24 |
| cap10morgan | it's processing through it all | 21:24 |
| cap10morgan | but it just keeps growing | 21:24 |
| +snapcount | latest version? | 21:24 |
| cap10morgan | yeah | 21:24 |
| cap10morgan | 7.3.13 in WRE 0.7.2 | 21:24 |
| cap10morgan | on RHEL 4 | 21:24 |
| +snapcount | there is probably a workflow that is hanging up | 21:24 |
| +snapcount | spectre doesn't ignore those anymore | 21:24 |
| cap10morgan | i'm watching spectre run, there doesn't seem to be | 21:24 |
| +snapcount | it pushes them to the bottom of the que | 21:24 |
| +snapcount | so if you have a list that is growing... that would be my first guess | 21:25 |
| cap10morgan | ok | 21:25 |
| * SDuensin is excited - he just ordered a virtual server to put his WebGUI (and other) STUFF ON! WHOOO! | 21:25 | |
| +snapcount | basically if the wf has a problem it becomes priority 0 | 21:25 |
| +snapcount | so spectre runs the other stuff and then trys those again | 21:25 |
| +snapcount | set your logging to debug and see if you have errors | 21:26 |
| cap10morgan | ok | 21:26 |
| +snapcount | btw this is just community advice | 21:27 |
| +snapcount | I don't work for pb anymore so this isn't official support | 21:27 |
| +snapcount | just so you know | 21:27 |
| cap10morgan | ok | 21:27 |
| SDuensin | That means we don't have to pay you. :-) | 21:27 |
| cap10morgan | haha | 21:27 |
| +snapcount | that's one way to look at it =) | 21:27 |
| +snapcount | SDuensin: where did you get your server? | 21:28 |
| SDuensin | LiquidWeb. I've been using them for some time. Support is excellent. (I'd have done PlainBlack, but I need root access and can't afford them - yet!) | 21:29 |
| cap10morgan | one of our domains just added a ton of workflow instances to the queue at priority 20 | 21:29 |
| +snapcount | I think that higher number == lower priority | 21:30 |
| SDuensin | snapcount - I just got this: https://www.liquidweb.com/shared/plan4.htm | 21:30 |
| +snapcount | I never looked at that code after rizen re-wrote it | 21:30 |
| +snapcount | I need to setup a virtual machine in windows... what do you guys recommend? | 21:31 |
| +snapcount | VMWare appears to cost $$$ | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | installing linux :) | 21:31 |
| +snapcount | and I don't like that | 21:31 |
| cap10morgan | VMWare Server is free | 21:31 |
| cap10morgan | that's what i use | 21:32 |
| +snapcount | My bodybugg doesn't work in Linux | 21:32 |
| +snapcount | so I need windoze | 21:32 |
| +snapcount | and I have the muscle to run a virtual machine pretty snappy | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | what's a bodybugg? | 21:32 |
| +snapcount | amazing what 4 sata2 baracuddas in Raid 0 will do for performance | 21:33 |
| +snapcount | it's a "Make yourself un-fat monitor" | 21:33 |
| +snapcount | its an armband that measures the amount of calories you're burning | 21:33 |
| +snapcount | I want to loose 2lbs/week | 21:33 |
| +snapcount | so I need to burn 1000 calories more than I consume each day | 21:34 |
| +snapcount | this tells me how many I'm burning and the food log part of the software tells me how much is going in | 21:34 |
| +snapcount | the software is all web based but uses active x controls so it requires IE | 21:35 |
| perlmonkey2 | how does it know how many you are burning? | 21:35 |
| +snapcount | it measures a lot of things like number of steps, heart rate, and the electrical conduction between two points on your skin | 21:36 |
| +snapcount | some how all of that crap into some formula lets them figure it out | 21:36 |
| +snapcount | pretty amazing | 21:36 |
| +snapcount | also your skin temperature I think | 21:36 |
| perlmonkey2 | that is amazing. | 21:36 |
| +snapcount | www.bodybugg.com | 21:36 |
| pjesi | snapcount: that is no excuse | 21:37 |
| pjesi | http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page | 21:37 |
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| -!- wgGuest49 [n=wgGuest4@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 21:38 | |
| pjesi | :P | 21:38 |
| wgGuest49 | what the f | 21:38 |
| perlmonkey2 | IEs4Linux++ | 21:38 |
| -!- wgGuest49 is now known as snapcount | 21:39 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v snapcount] by ChanServ | 21:39 | |
| +snapcount | apparently this chat java applet doesn't like it when you minimize the window | 21:39 |
| pjesi | did you see the url? | 21:40 |
| +snapcount | no | 21:40 |
| pjesi | [19:37] <pjesi> http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page | 21:41 |
| +snapcount | will active x controls work? | 21:43 |
| +snapcount | I think that's how it interfaces with the hardware | 21:43 |
| SDuensin | This is a better URL: http://goodbye-microsoft.com/ | 21:43 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 21:43 |
| +snapcount | that's funny | 21:44 |
| SDuensin | snapcount, just snag VMWare Server. It works great. | 21:44 |
| SDuensin | Video is slow on the Server edition, but you just minimize it and SSH in anyway. :-) | 21:44 |
| +snapcount | will that allow you to create the virtual machine? | 21:44 |
| cap10morgan | snapcount: yes | 21:44 |
| SDuensin | Or you could be completely psycho and use CoLinux. | 21:44 |
| SDuensin | Yes. | 21:44 |
| +snapcount | ok that sounds good... vmware server is the free one right | 21:45 |
| SDuensin | BillSoft also gives away VirtualPC now, too. I prefer VMWare Server though. | 21:45 |
| SDuensin | Yep. Free. | 21:45 |
| +snapcount | cool | 21:45 |
| +snapcount | It will slow down my WoW download for a bit but I suppose that's acceptable | 21:45 |
| SDuensin | hehehe | 21:46 |
| +snapcount | 3.18 GB | 21:46 |
| SDuensin | You're a digital crack addict. | 21:46 |
| +snapcount | 20% done woo hoo | 21:46 |
| +snapcount | digital crack eh? | 21:46 |
| +snapcount | haven't heard that one yet | 21:46 |
| SDuensin | That reminds me - I need to install CentOS in a VM. | 21:46 |
| +snapcount | but it sound appropriate | 21:46 |
| SDuensin | World of Warcrack? | 21:46 |
| +snapcount | ahh | 21:46 |
| +snapcount | I haven't played in quite a while | 21:47 |
| +snapcount | I'm starting up again | 21:47 |
| * snapcount has a relapse | 21:47 | |
| SDuensin | It's the newer, more addictive, version of EverCrack. | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | Intervention! | 21:47 |
| * SDuensin just sticks with IRC. It's the same, but with lower system requirements. | 21:47 | |
| +snapcount | always wanted to be on TV | 21:47 |
| +snapcount | I finally have a system that can play games again | 21:47 |
| +snapcount | so I'm happy | 21:47 |
| SDuensin | I do, too. Just can't find *time* to play them! | 21:48 |
| +snapcount | ah yes | 21:50 |
| +snapcount | time | 21:50 |
| SDuensin | I bought a GameBoy DS game. Figured I could play it while on the couch or wherever and maybe get to game a bit. My two year old has played it more than I have. (She's watched the intro at least two hundred times.) | 21:51 |
| +snapcount | my Mom hijacked my DS when I visited her last | 21:53 |
| +snapcount | now she has her own | 21:53 |
| +snapcount | thank God | 21:53 |
| +snapcount | she got hooked on Brain Age | 21:53 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 21:53 |
| SDuensin | The game I got was "Hotel Dusk: 215". What I've seen of it is pretty cool. | 21:54 |
| +snapcount | crap I keep forgetting this is a 64 bit machine | 21:55 |
| +snapcount | I'm constantly downloading the wrong stuff | 21:55 |
| SDuensin | ehe | 21:55 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 21:56 |
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| ckotil | brain age is neat | 23:21 |
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| SDuensin | Wow, ckotil, you got some lag. :-P | 23:26 |
| ckotil | heh | 23:28 |
| * ckotil blames the 3 beers at lunch | 23:28 | |
| ckotil | it acutually just clicked now in my head what brain age was. | 23:28 |
| cap10morgan | so, i have a custom workflow that i wrote that runs fine on my development box | 23:28 |
| * ckotil 's brain age is 200 | 23:28 | |
| SDuensin | hehe | 23:29 |
| cap10morgan | but on my server, it doesn't run | 23:29 |
| cap10morgan | it doesn't spit out any errors or anything in the log | 23:29 |
| cap10morgan | even when i run it manually in the scheduler admin console | 23:29 |
| cap10morgan | any idea what to check? | 23:29 |
| cap10morgan | i have a once every 5 minute schedule for it to run, but it just doesn't | 23:30 |
| ckotil | what does it do? | 23:30 |
| ckotil | what kind of workflow? | 23:30 |
| cap10morgan | it processes "actions" | 23:30 |
| cap10morgan | which are basically dataform submissions | 23:31 |
| cap10morgan | once it's done its work, it marks the datafrom_entry as processed in the db (using a new field) | 23:31 |
| cap10morgan | but that's not happening | 23:31 |
| cap10morgan | i see no evidence anywhere that it's even attempting to run... :/ | 23:31 |
| cap10morgan | hahaha | 23:32 |
| cap10morgan | it just ran | 23:33 |
| cap10morgan | finally! | 23:33 |
| cap10morgan | :) | 23:33 |
| ckotil | heh | 23:33 |
| ckotil | so spectre took a while to process it? | 23:33 |
| cap10morgan | wow, it took it like half an hour to run | 23:33 |
| cap10morgan | well, it didn't even attempt to run it until just now | 23:33 |
| ckotil | thats one of my biggest complaints with webgui right now | 23:33 |
| cap10morgan | and then it completed basically instantly | 23:33 |
| cap10morgan | how asynchronous spectre is? | 23:34 |
| ckotil | not sure. | 23:35 |
| ckotil | seems to be quite a bit tho | 23:35 |
| ckotil | otherwise why would jobs take so long to process , or even get into the queue? | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | It's very hard to debug spectre problems on dev systems | 23:39 |
| @rizen | pd, i disagree | 23:41 |
| @rizen | spectre has all kinds of debug and testing stuff now | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I should be more clear | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | It's hard to replicate some spectre problems on dev systems | 23:41 |
| @rizen | and as for synchronicity problems, it's got to be a config error, or you've found a new bug that no one else has reported | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | spectre seems to be very situatinos dependent | 23:41 |
| @rizen | have you guys done: perl spectre.pl --status | 23:42 |
| @rizen | It tells you what's in the queue and how long it's been running | 23:42 |
| @rizen | what the status of each things is as well | 23:42 |
| SDuensin | Ok, heading home. Later all. | 23:51 |
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| --- Day changed Tue Apr 03 2007 | ||
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| cap10morgan | spectre.pl --status is pretty interesting | 00:41 |
| cap10morgan | i have a bunch (over 400) waiting workflows, all at priority 20 or 21 | 00:42 |
| cap10morgan | the ones at 21 are complete | 00:42 |
| cap10morgan | the ones at 20 are all "never run" | 00:42 |
| rizen_ | "complete" means that it successfully ran it's last task | 00:42 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ | 00:42 | |
| cap10morgan | does 400 workflows seem normal for ~10 domains? | 00:46 |
| @rizen | not even close to normal | 00:46 |
| cap10morgan | kinda what i thought... | 00:46 |
| cap10morgan | hmm... | 00:46 |
| @rizen | it does depend on your spectre settings though | 00:46 |
| @rizen | what does your spectre config look like? | 00:47 |
| @rizen | the defaults aren't really adequate for a multi-domain server | 00:47 |
| cap10morgan | ok to paste to channel? | 00:47 |
| @rizen | perlbot paste? | 00:47 |
| perlbot | Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. | 00:47 |
| cap10morgan | http://sial.org/pbot/23951 | 00:48 |
| @rizen | wow | 00:49 |
| cap10morgan | i love ~70 domains by the time this is a production server | 00:49 |
| @rizen | i wouldn't set max workers higher than 5 | 00:49 |
| cap10morgan | oh, ok | 00:49 |
| @rizen | also, time between workflows should probably be 1 second | 00:50 |
| cap10morgan | ok, changing those | 00:50 |
| @rizen | generally speaking you want the list of running workflows to be empty | 00:51 |
| @rizen | aka zero latency | 00:51 |
| cap10morgan | right | 00:51 |
| @rizen | for example: http://sial.org/pbot/23952 | 00:53 |
| @rizen | this particular box has 90 sites running on it | 00:53 |
| @rizen | the only ones sitting in the queue are ones that are waiting for approval | 00:54 |
| cap10morgan | is priority 20 the lowest priority? | 00:54 |
| @rizen | nope | 00:54 |
| @rizen | well wait | 00:54 |
| @rizen | by lowest do you mean "least" | 00:54 |
| @rizen | the priorities are 0, 10, and 20 | 00:54 |
| @rizen | the starting | 00:54 |
| @rizen | something with a priority of 0 will be run immedietly | 00:55 |
| cap10morgan | ok | 00:55 |
| cap10morgan | gotcha | 00:55 |
| @rizen | as things are executed, their priority will increase | 00:55 |
| cap10morgan | alright, my queue is steadily declining now | 00:55 |
| @rizen | you may see something like 243/20 as a priority | 00:55 |
| @rizen | meaning that it has executed 223 times | 00:56 |
| @rizen | and started at 20 | 00:56 |
| cap10morgan | oh, ok | 00:56 |
| @rizen | generally, anything running that long is going to be problematic | 00:56 |
| cap10morgan | right, makes sense | 00:56 |
| @rizen | everything that comes with webgui will fully complete withing 5-15 executions | 00:56 |
| cap10morgan | thanks rizen, that's working much more smoothly now | 01:04 |
| @rizen | glad to hear it | 01:04 |
| @rizen | incidentally there's a lot of info about spectre included in the upcoming "WebGUI Administrators Guide" book that i'm writing | 01:05 |
| @rizen | you should check it out | 01:05 |
| @rizen | it should be out mid may | 01:05 |
| cap10morgan | oh, cool | 01:05 |
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| cap10morgan | well that was fun | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | vayde, you want to talk tests? | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | cap10morgan: indeed. at least it was short | 01:10 |
| cap10morgan | :) | 01:10 |
| @vayde | sure, let's talk tests | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | We'll do the email one first, it's the easiest. | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | 1) Grab a copy of my wG testing talk from http://www.sunsetpres.org/web/webgui | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | 2)Skim it (10-15 minutes tops) | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | 3) Holler back | 01:11 |
| @vayde | will do | 01:11 |
| @vayde | Woah, pD. I just looked at the clock. I have to teach shortly. I'll read it and check back with you either later tonight if you're around or tomorrow | 01:14 |
| +perlDreamer | no problem | 01:15 |
| +perlDreamer | hack on, it whatever medium you need to | 01:15 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Apr 03 03:58:51 2007 | ||
| --- Log opened Tue Apr 03 12:58:56 2007 | ||
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| SDuensin | Blargh. Morning. | 15:57 |
| AMH_bob | Goodmorning | 15:59 |
| SDuensin | Hey AMH_bob | 16:04 |
| * SDuensin is already having a bad day. :-( | 16:04 | |
| SDuensin | You'd think a company the size of Apple would be able to pay their bills. | 16:05 |
| * SDuensin has the worst luck getting paid for his work. <sigh> | 16:06 | |
| AMH_bob | They make pretty good stuff, that's all I know! | 16:19 |
| * SDuensin is on a MacBook Pro right now. :-) | 16:21 | |
| AMH_bob | would like to be on a MacBook Pro right now :P | 16:24 |
| AMH_bob | I'm in The Netherlands, it seems that this channel gets busy when I head off to home ... :( | 16:25 |
| AMH_bob | its 3:24 pm here | 16:25 |
| AMH_bob | I'm crash coursing wobjects now... it is starting to make sence | 16:32 |
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| SDuensin | Cool, AMH_bob - I get to learn that yet. | 16:35 |
| SDuensin | I *almost* had it figured out in the 5.x series. Then I went away for a bit. :-) | 16:35 |
| SDuensin | Hey MrHairgrease | 16:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | hi | 16:37 |
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| cga | ciao a tutti =) | 18:03 |
| cga | ohps sorry | 18:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | hi | 18:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | MrHairGrease: Do you know if there's a EuroWUC this year? | 19:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | While I am not certain | 19:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | I think no | 19:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | It there is, I would've prolly heard about it | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, thanks | 19:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | that is, if oit wer to be in NL | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | well, you are well connected in the Euro wG community | 19:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | only in the dutch incrowd | 19:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | most of the other euro guys i have never seen | 19:23 |
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| dgm | trying to install webgui from source.... and I have to say... the instructions are severly lacking. | 21:02 |
| perlmonkey2 | How long would it take to port WebGUI to use Moose? I've already tested Moose with Poe with no issues. | 21:02 |
| perlmonkey2 | Although I don't start the Poe event loop until the Moose post-constructor BUILD call. | 21:03 |
| SDuensin | Moose? | 21:03 |
| perlmonkey2 | Moose is Perl6 OO in Perl5 | 21:04 |
| SDuensin | Ah. | 21:04 |
| SDuensin | dgm - you mean the WRE? | 21:04 |
| dgm | no, the source | 21:05 |
| perlmonkey2 | yes, rewrite all of the source in Moose. | 21:05 |
| SDuensin | Source of WebGUI? Or compile the WRE from source? | 21:06 |
| +perlDreamer | installing wG from source couldn't take more than 15-30 minutes, with most of that being downloading and installing perl modules from CPAN | 21:06 |
| dgm | webgui source | 21:06 |
| dgm | on ubunto 6.06 | 21:06 |
| dgm | cpan modules wouldn't all install | 21:06 |
| +perlDreamer | which ones? | 21:06 |
| SDuensin | Why not use the WRE for Ubuntu? | 21:07 |
| dgm | I already have other apahce websites.... doesn't the WRE supply another apache? | 21:08 |
| SDuensin | Two more, in fact. :-) | 21:08 |
| perlmonkey2 | dgm, I originally thought the documentation was lacking, because I didn't have a lot of modules installed. The real problem was the documentation was too thorough and I had skimmed a lot of it, missing crucial steps. Everything I had to do to get WebGui source running on brand new Fedora boxes was in the documentation. | 21:08 |
| dgm | the cpan stuff should be earlier | 21:09 |
| dgm | the instructions show the apache config before showing the cpan stuff, but some perl stuff needs to be installed before the web server is restarted | 21:10 |
| dgm | gah. I have to give up for today... 3 hours is too much | 21:11 |
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| SDuensin | He was fun. | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but too bad he wouldn't give more details | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | dgm is a PHP/perl/rails dev | 21:12 |
| SDuensin | Ah | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | perlmonkey2: it would be a big task to rewrite everything in Moose. | 21:13 |
| * SDuensin is a whatever-the-source-is-in dev. | 21:13 | |
| perlmonkey2 | perlDreamer: probably makes more sense to wait until Perl6 is production worthy? | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen would like to move to p6 when that happens | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | It would be nice (very nice) to have the power of p6 today, but don't you think it would be much slower than regular old p5? | 21:15 |
| perlmonkey2 | I've signed up to the pugs project, but haven't had time to contibute :( | 21:15 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI can always use more perl hackers | 21:15 |
| perlmonkey2 | Slower? Definetely. Noticeably? Probably not. | 21:15 |
| +perlDreamer | are there any Moose benchmarks out there for comparison? | 21:16 |
| * perlmonkey2 would love to be a full time Perl project hacker. | 21:16 | |
| +perlDreamer | I found a little info in Moose::Cookbook::FAQ | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | the big risk in such a big rewrite is that there's no wG-wide test suite to back you up. | 21:19 |
| perlmonkey2 | yes, it wasn't a very well thought out idea. But irc is perfect for those :P | 21:20 |
| perlmonkey2 | Plus, since p6 is ontrack for xmas2007, the rewrite would just be wrapped up when p6 design work would need to be started. | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we should flesh out wG's test suite to make such ideas easier to implement? | 21:21 |
| perlmonkey2 | And the p6 rewrite will be magnitudes more fun. | 21:21 |
| perlmonkey2 | With threading functional and working, I wonder if POE will be necessary anymore? | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | p6 has been on track for xmas 2\d\d\d for a long time | 21:22 |
| perlmonkey2 | #perl6 is very assuring on this issue. | 21:23 |
| * perlmonkey2 gets a little sick to his stomach thinking about a redesign of WebGui that would not entail using POE. | 21:26 | |
| * perlDreamer heads off to lunch. bbl | 21:27 | |
| SDuensin | WTF is POE anyway? All I know is that I updated it. :-) | 21:31 |
| ckotil | http://poe.perl.org/?POE_Components_List | 21:32 |
| perlmonkey2 | POE is a psuedo operating system/event handler. | 21:34 |
| SDuensin | ah | 21:35 |
| SDuensin | Man, there's POE crap for everything. :-) | 21:37 |
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| perlmonkey2 | yes, POE is like butta | 21:43 |
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| +perlDreamer | vayde, want to talk tests? | 22:58 |
| @vayde | I'd love to, but I have to squash something for JT first | 22:59 |
| SDuensin | He's scared of spiders, eh? | 22:59 |
| @vayde | gimme a few to puzzle over it, maybe you can explain it to me | 22:59 |
| @vayde | call me the Orkin man... Nik Bash Bugs! | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | are we going to release tomorrow? | 23:01 |
| @vayde | I don't know. I'm pretty low on the totem pole | 23:04 |
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| --- Day changed Wed Apr 04 2007 | ||
| @preaction | god i remember saying that same thing a few months ago | 00:28 |
| @vayde | ahh, the good old days eh? | 00:36 |
| @vayde | now you're the 'elder brother' as we would say in kung fu | 00:37 |
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| @preaction | of course, kohai | 01:18 |
| @vayde | wrong country round eye. To me you're 'sihing'. | 01:20 |
| @preaction | that's racist, dog | 01:20 |
| @preaction | they're not round, they're more droopy | 01:20 |
| @vayde | Hey, as a Japanese/Swedish/Scot I reserve the right to use 'round eye' any time I want. Don't make me serve you raw lutefisk while wearing a kilt! | 01:23 |
| @preaction | Japanese/Swedish/Scot who teaches Chinese martial art? | 01:24 |
| * preaction braces for "wrong country, <insert racist term>" | 01:24 | |
| @vayde | Yup. My great-great-great grandfather was samurai, and I only do chinese martial arts. My family is very disappointed | 01:24 |
| @preaction | i'd break out the "slope", but i'm white, so therefore I cannot play with racism. | 01:25 |
| @preaction | yeah, i'd say so. how long did Japan have to defend itself against Chinese/Mandarin tyrants? | 01:26 |
| @vayde | At least twice, but other than the Mongols, I don't really remember. | 01:27 |
| @vayde | I'm more familiar with the times it wen't the other way | 01:27 |
| @preaction | the evil japanese imperialists? I remember one, and vaguely remember that another one might've been a factor in a mongol occupation before the mongols established a dynasty. but i'm probably just admitting my own ignorance | 01:30 |
| @vayde | I have a weapon style/form that was specifically tailored to fight the japanese katana. | 01:31 |
| @vayde | I'm not much of an historian, really. I just hit stuff. | 01:32 |
| @vayde | Is there a support/hosting price list somewhere? | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | https://www.plainblack.com/store/services | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: PBstore is https://www.plainblack.com/store/services | 02:18 |
| perlbot | added PBstore to the database | 02:18 |
| @vayde | duh. found it | 02:18 |
| +Radix_ | mornin' | 02:24 |
| +Radix_ | I'm winning on the ACME contest so far.. of course noone else has voted and I voted for myself, but hey.. | 02:25 |
| +Radix_ | ;) | 02:25 |
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| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 05:58 | |
| * PedersenMJ wavers. | 05:59 | |
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| pjesi | \o | 06:17 |
| pjesi | PedersenMJ: how many styles do you plan to submit to the contest? :-) | 06:18 |
| PedersenMJ | I still thought it had to be all original? And, though I can convert without problem, making a new one? I suck. | 06:18 |
| pjesi | it has been changed? | 06:23 |
| pjesi | I think | 06:23 |
| pjesi | you can convert open source templates | 06:23 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, cool. In that case, I might have time to convert a good three or four of them :) | 06:25 |
| pjesi | nice! | 06:25 |
| pjesi | I was hoping I can find the time for one! | 06:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, they're pretty easy. Just go down the tutorial I wrote, working on any given theme. Shouldn't take but 3 to 4 hours, depending on complexity. | 06:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Some could take longer, sure, but they're pretty easy overall. | 06:26 |
| pjesi | PedersenMJ: yeah I know how to make them, but just really busy | 06:26 |
| pjesi | for instance I am pulling an "allnighter" as we speak | 06:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, ditto. Still, it's a chance for another $250, so I can make some time. | 06:27 |
| pjesi | :) | 06:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Just got home from work half an hour ago myself (it's now 11:30pm). | 06:27 |
| pjesi | Im doing final assignments for a msc course | 06:27 |
| pjesi | I have written more code in the last three week then the entire year 2006 | 06:28 |
| pjesi | weeks* | 06:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, if it was for you, rather than for a course, I'd say congrats on these 3 weeks. | 06:28 |
| pjesi | it is 4:28 over here | 06:28 |
| pjesi | :) | 06:28 |
| pjesi | Im just really tired, have to submit at noon | 06:29 |
| PedersenMJ | That's never any fun. | 06:29 |
| pjesi | but I learned a lot on these three weeks, so I dont regret it | 06:30 |
| pjesi | but it would be nice to do some fun work that does not require much "brains" like converting a style :) | 06:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh. I'm working on finishing a python app of mine before I allow myself some of the fun stuff. | 06:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Wonder if it could be done for perl, actually? It's a three piece tool for python scripts. | 06:36 |
| PedersenMJ | 1) Run a compile process over all files. | 06:36 |
| PedersenMJ | 2) Run a documentation checker, making sure that all docs are written, properly tagged, etc | 06:37 |
| PedersenMJ | 3) Run a unit test coverage checker, which makes sure that every method has a unit test, and that the test actually calls the method | 06:37 |
| PedersenMJ | (woops, 4 parts) 4) Run the unit tests | 06:37 |
| PedersenMJ | I don't doubt it could be done in/for perl, but I have no idea how I'd go about it. | 06:39 |
| pjesi | python is cool | 06:43 |
| pjesi | the web frameworks look really promising | 06:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Can be, sure. I dunno. I'm using it because it's the best tool for the job I've got in mind, but I can't honestly say I really like it. Sorry, but the mandatory whitespace thing really bugs me. | 06:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, this one made me LOL: http://www.bash.org/?258104 | 06:46 |
| pjesi | I dont mind it | 06:46 |
| pjesi | hehe | 06:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeowch. Here's one I'd not soon try on *any* machine I cared about (unless it was Windows... wait, I did say cared abotu, which eliminates Windows anyway): http://www.bash.org/?96164 | 07:02 |
| @preaction | roflrofl | 07:02 |
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| PedersenMJ | Shh! he's back! | 07:05 |
| @preaction | don't say that, now he knows! | 07:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Damn! Hinrik, please log out, log back in again, and pretend you haven't seen anything, okay? | 07:06 |
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| PedersenMJ | Video that you need to see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFpp1zRrDfg | 07:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, will enjoy seeing, if you like flight. | 07:18 |
| pjesi | what did I miss? :s | 07:30 |
| pjesi | Hinrik: you better upload pictures of the kitten real soon, I want to see the soldier | 07:30 |
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| Hinrik | talking about me eh... | 08:37 |
| Hinrik | pjesi: here you go | 08:43 |
| Hinrik | http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2674/kitty1fu1.jpg | 08:43 |
| Hinrik | http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8739/kitty2tf5.jpg | 08:43 |
| Hinrik | http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/1848/kitty3hl1.jpg | 08:43 |
| Hinrik | http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/7666/kitty4ra3.jpg | 08:43 |
| Hinrik | http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8611/kitty5fq2.jpg | 08:43 |
| Hinrik | http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1086/kitty6xm7.jpg | 08:43 |
| Hinrik | excuse the toes | 08:44 |
| @preaction | KITTIES | 08:48 |
| @preaction | ooh, he's a teenager and he's all gangly and CUUUUUTE | 08:48 |
| @preaction | oh.. it was just that one pichar he looked gangly | 08:48 |
| pjesi | pie | 08:57 |
| Hinrik | she | 08:59 |
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| @preaction | i hate learning that my assumptions were wrong and having to undo 4 hours of work at 2:00 in the morning... | 10:19 |
| * preaction goes to bed instead | 10:19 | |
| +Radix-wrk | heh | 10:25 |
| @preaction | and my gf wonders why i'm gaining weight... no time to do anything but sit here with a computer on my lap... | 10:26 |
| * preaction stops whining | 10:26 | |
| +Radix-wrk | I had a similar ordeal today | 10:26 |
| @preaction | eventually, i mean | 10:26 |
| @preaction | yum | 10:26 |
| +Radix-wrk | assumptions are killers | 10:26 |
| @preaction | one of those "I want to build an EMP so that every computer will die and we'll have to use tech manuals to build our technology back up to current level over a slow period of a few decades"? | 10:27 |
| +Radix-wrk | heh | 10:28 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18099897 | 10:28 |
| +Radix-wrk | did I post that one in here? | 10:29 |
| @preaction | not that i know of | 10:30 |
| @preaction | 3 minutes into it and ... wow... | 10:32 |
| +Radix-wrk | yeah | 10:33 |
| @preaction | of course, all he had to do was say "hold the power button for 6 seconds" | 10:34 |
| +Radix-wrk | personally I think both are idiots.. the dell tech was obviously following protocol by asking for his basic questions.. knowing that if he didn't get them up front the guy would hang up | 10:34 |
| @preaction | i hate level 1 techs | 10:34 |
| +Radix-wrk | that said, he could have told the guy this up front so the guy didn't go on and on | 10:35 |
| +Radix-wrk | but obviously the second guy is an idiot also who just likes the sound of his own voice and likes to yell and abuse. | 10:35 |
| @preaction | i dunno man, after an hour screwing around with those automated systems, i want to kill people too | 10:36 |
| @preaction | that added to the "it's so simple I'm stupid for not figuring it out" embarassment of how to turn the thing Off | 10:37 |
| @preaction | after the first bit of yelling, i'd deviate from script and say "hold the power button down for a few seconds" | 10:37 |
| @preaction | and now i'm reading this thread and i'm wondering why more people do NOT yell at the tech support people... | 10:40 |
| @preaction | their bosses seem to think that support is just a waste of money. a "120 second handle time", what if it's actually a real PROBLEM? | 10:40 |
| +Radix-wrk | yup, which is why i said both are idiots | 10:44 |
| @preaction | http://customerssuck.com <- some hilarity here | 10:53 |
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| @preaction | has anyone seen ubuntu's launchpad recently? https://launchpad.net | 11:55 |
| @preaction | wonder if the new webgui.org site could do things as straightforward as this | 11:55 |
| +Radix-wrk | it's very nice | 12:02 |
| @preaction | screw that, it's amazing | 12:02 |
| @preaction | RFE for built-in bug tracking to the project manager perhaps? | 12:03 |
| @preaction | plainblack is just using a CS right now | 12:03 |
| @preaction | built-in release tracking too maybe? mark bugs for certain releases and then the release can have a percentage done | 12:04 |
| @preaction | mark RFEs as well, put them in the same system (being able to choose between "RFE", "Minor", "Major", "Critical" or "Fatal") | 12:08 |
| +Radix-wrk | hehe.. I want to download it and install it on a server here to manage our own projects.. wish we could! | 12:21 |
| +Radix-wrk | anyways.. hometime now.. adios | 12:21 |
| @preaction | cya | 12:21 |
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| +Radix_ | I should prolly write this up in the wiki sometime I guess - http://www.plainblack.com/web_design_templates_and_themes/newbie-how-to-set-navigation-for-different-areas-of-the-site | 13:28 |
| @preaction | snippets are cached, so the slowdown with assetproxy calls is minimal compared to the time it saves you. processor time is less expensive than programmer time (which i try to convince my bosses of every time they tell me to optimize before implementation) | 13:30 |
| * preaction remembers that the channel is listening and there are logs... | 13:31 | |
| @preaction | but yes, that would make a bully wiki article | 13:31 |
| +Radix_ | "The awesome power of snippets and assetproxy - or how to make your site more dynamic than ever" | 13:33 |
| +Radix_ | http://www.biggercheese.com/comics/0332.png | 13:49 |
| @preaction | they h4x0r3d t3h g1b50n! | 13:50 |
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| ckotil | If you have a workflow w/ object type WebGUI::VersionTag , can you create a scheduled event to execute a workflow w/ object type WebGUI::User without getting errors? | 15:53 |
| -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@211.sub-75-206-158.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI | 15:57 | |
| SDuensin | Good morning. | 15:58 |
| @preaction | ckotil: iirc versiontag and user workflows don't work under the scheduler (since they require objects) | 15:58 |
| ckotil | I see | 15:58 |
| ckotil | that makes sense | 15:58 |
| ckotil | Can I safely delete the workflow from the WorkflowInstance table? | 15:59 |
| @preaction | maybe, maybe not | 16:01 |
| @preaction | i personally haven't had any major problems removing things from the WorkflowInstance table, and you might want to go remove things from WorkflowInstanceScratch too, but ymmv | 16:02 |
| ckotil | the bulk of the workflow ran fine, its just this last activity in the workflow that is getting hung up bc its a create scheduled event w/ WebGUI::User | 16:02 |
| ckotil | yah. ive done it in the past, and nothing got screwed up | 16:03 |
| ckotil | I had this workflow creating a scheduled event to send an email notifying users that there is a pending version tag needing to be approved | 16:05 |
| ckotil | it just occured to me i can pull this off with this activity i have that lets me send an personilzed email message to any email address | 16:05 |
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| ckotil | i think i found a bad bug | 17:28 |
| ckotil | w/ editing file assets. | 17:28 |
| ckotil | when you click save, the file gets downlaoded and an warning is thrown | 17:29 |
| ckotil | WARN - globalnoc.webgui.conf - main::[[undef]] - Couldn't call method editSave on asset for url: | 17:29 |
| ckotil | Root cause: Can't call method "setPrivileges" on an undefined value at /gnoc/globalnoc/htdocs/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/File.pm line 251. | 17:29 |
| @vayde | ugh | 17:29 |
| ckotil | im about to revert to a backup | 17:30 |
| ckotil | bc i have to be able to have users edit file assets | 17:30 |
| @vayde | when did that start? | 17:30 |
| ckotil | today | 17:30 |
| @vayde | which version? | 17:30 |
| ckotil | i upgraded yesterday | 17:30 |
| ckotil | 7.3.13 | 17:31 |
| @vayde | write it up so we have a record of it in the system, and I'll jump on it right away | 17:32 |
| ckotil | submitting a post to the PB Support forum | 17:32 |
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| ckotil | http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support/wierd-behavior-when-editing-file-asset | 17:35 |
| @rizen | why are you giving me that url? | 17:35 |
| ckotil | habbit | 17:39 |
| ckotil | sorry | 17:39 |
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| ckotil | thanks jt | 19:03 |
| @rizen | np | 19:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | bunches and bunches of PB people today | 20:27 |
| +perlDreamer | hello PB people! | 20:27 |
| @preaction | hello perlDearest | 20:28 |
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| @rizen | preaction......your wording scares me sometimes | 20:55 |
| @preaction | "wording"? | 20:55 |
| @rizen | perlDearest | 20:55 |
| @rizen | and i remember one time you saying something like "yes JT sweetums" or something like that to me | 20:56 |
| @preaction | it's a good gauge of my mood: the more eloquent the speech, the more embarassed or ashamed or... oh, you're talking about THAT | 20:56 |
| @preaction | that's just good ol fashioned fun! | 20:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | what's wrong with that sweetums? | 20:56 |
| @preaction | yeah, pookie-pie? | 20:56 |
| * preaction might have just gone too far | 20:57 | |
| +MrHairgrease | nah | 20:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | you have to call jt my little p[onie for that | 20:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | or | 20:57 |
| @preaction | is that a reference to Plone? one of the Axis of Evil? | 20:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | maybe carebear\ | 20:57 |
| @rizen | i hate you guys | 20:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | fyr! | 20:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | i can't belive that you liked the bofh macro better than the l33tout | 20:58 |
| @preaction | MrHairgrease: i wasn't able to get the l33tout to work :'( | 20:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | what? | 20:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | what went wrong | 20:59 |
| @rizen | and l33tout is a remake, where bofh is brand new | 20:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | i didn't say so in the rules | 20:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | but then again | 20:59 |
| @preaction | couldn't call method "get" on an undefined value at line something, i can dig it up hang on | 20:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | i do not care that much | 20:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 20:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | weird | 20:59 |
| @rizen | there's nothing saying you can't do a remake...just that i prefer new stuff to a remake | 21:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | file a bug report =) | 21:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 21:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | fair enough | 21:00 |
| @rizen | also...bofh gives you something new an hillarious everytime | 21:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | try explain that to marijn | 21:00 |
| +perlDreamer | so who is marijn? | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | you were going to tell us about her last week but were suffering | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | from EBC | 21:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | a girl who like ultrahip eurothrash with sex appeal | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | can she hack? | 21:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 21:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | but she can drink | 21:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | which is a virtue in itself | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | 1/2 isn't bad! | 21:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | right? | 21:01 |
| @rizen | i'm not certain why she likes ultruhip eurotrash though | 21:02 |
| @preaction | can she outdrink a german? | 21:02 |
| +perlDreamer | it's the sex appeal | 21:02 |
| @preaction | no, can she outdrink an Irishman? | 21:02 |
| +perlDreamer | well, bring her to Wisconsin in October | 21:02 |
| +perlDreamer | we'll teach her perl | 21:02 |
| @preaction | we can test the german one then | 21:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok pd | 21:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | you get joeri to ay expenses for marijn | 21:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | and i might bvring her | 21:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | actually | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | she's part of your staff | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | required for travel | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not an option | 21:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | there's a picture of her in the spot gooey section | 21:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | no staff! | 21:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | i don't have any staff | 21:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | being a minion muself | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | who is going to check your flights, handle appointments, speaking engagements and the autograph event? | 21:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | joeri is | 21:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | but he also pays my bills | 21:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 21:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | diners ready | 21:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | w00t! release. | 21:40 |
| ckotil | hrm, i cant seem to recall wehre the code is that will prevent me from uploading an htm file. automatically turns it into a txt | 21:40 |
| -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.14 | WRE 0.7.2 ][ New Contest Open -- Acme Code Contribution -- Win $$$ and Karma (www.plainblack.com/wcc) ] | 21:40 | |
| +perlDreamer | Storage.pm | 21:42 |
| ckotil | thx p | 21:42 |
| ckotil | d | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil: btw, I haven't had a chance to look at your workflow bug. It may be a while, so if you'd like someone else to look at it it's fine by me. | 21:43 |
| ckotil | no problem. | 21:44 |
| ckotil | none of the bugs seem to be urgently requiring attention | 21:44 |
| -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.14 | WRE 0.7.2 ][ New Contest: Theme Design -- Win $$$ and Karma (www.plainblack.com/wcc) ] | 21:52 | |
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| * SDuensin has been busy as crap today. | 22:28 | |
| * pjesi has not slept for 37 hours | 22:31 | |
| SDuensin | I slept, but I don't know if it did any good. | 22:35 |
| * ckotil bites | 22:35 | |
| ckotil | why? | 22:35 |
| pjesi | three deadlines at noon | 22:44 |
| ckotil | thats hardcore | 22:44 |
| pjesi | yeah I should know | 22:45 |
| SDuensin | Been there, done that. You can keep it. | 22:48 |
| pjesi | I dont want to be rude and sit on it alone | 22:49 |
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| @vayde | Hey pD! Im in the club! I just broke a couple pb servers! | 22:57 |
| * SDuensin cheers! | 22:57 | |
| @vayde | well, I didn't totally break them, it was just a flesh wound... | 22:58 |
| pjesi | Hinrik once did rm -r mysql in wre on a site launch day, that was a good day | 23:00 |
| pjesi | :) | 23:00 |
| Hinrik | yes | 23:00 |
| @vayde | I'm still in the bush leagues I guess. I think I already fixed what I did. Hafta try harder next time I guess | 23:01 |
| ckotil | heh | 23:04 |
| +perlDreamer | how did you do it, vayde? | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | share your pain.... | 23:38 |
| @vayde | Oh, no biggie, really, I just screwed up how the CS mail handler works. | 23:38 |
| @vayde | It should be fixed now, but of course, now that I'm waiting for the email to circulate, they are g o i n g v e r y s l o w l y | 23:39 |
| +perlDreamer | that's a pretty good one. Broke all notifications and subscriptions for forums. | 23:39 |
| +perlDreamer | that's at least a 7 | 23:39 |
| @vayde | wow, and it only took 3 or 4 lines | 23:40 |
| @vayde | gifted I guess | 23:40 |
| @vayde | actually, come to think of it, I've been claiming my real talent to be in the field of destruction for years now | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | analyze your enemies weaknesses and use them to defeat him? Or is that the wrong philosophy? | 23:42 |
| @vayde | close. | 23:43 |
| @vayde | Actually the art of war says that being invulnerable lies with you, but being vulnerable lies with the enemy | 23:43 |
| @vayde | therefore great warriors made themselves invulnerable, and then awaited the moment when the enemy could be defeated | 23:43 |
| @vayde | all I can really do is make myself invulnerable. | 23:43 |
| @vayde | you are responsible for leaving an opening. all I do is use it when you present it | 23:44 |
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| --- Day changed Thu Apr 05 2007 | ||
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| +Radix_ | I love deadlines | 02:33 |
| +Radix_ | I especially like the wooshing sound they make when they go past. | 02:33 |
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| nuba | Radix_: thats a classic line :) | 03:33 |
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| +crythias | hrm | 03:50 |
| +crythias | ch-ch-ch-changes | 03:50 |
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| +crythias | Jesse! | 03:53 |
| +crythias | Hiya, Radix-wek | 03:54 |
| +crythias | erm. Radix-wrk | 03:54 |
| +Radix-wrk | Hiya | 03:54 |
| +Radix-wrk | Just got into the office :) | 03:54 |
| +crythias | Ah. :) | 03:55 |
| +Radix-wrk | last day of work before a nice long easter weekend :) | 03:55 |
| +crythias | likewise | 03:55 |
| +crythias | actually, I'll be taking off Thursday :) | 03:55 |
| +crythias | So, Roy's gone, hmm? | 03:56 |
| +Radix-wrk | gone? | 03:56 |
| +crythias | Apparently, no longer staff @plainblack... | 03:57 |
| +Radix-wrk | Ahh.. i see | 03:57 |
| +crythias | CTS.. speaking of /topic... | 03:58 |
| +crythias | http://crythias.blogspot.com/2007/04/from-picture-choose-color-scheme.html | 03:59 |
| +Radix-wrk | cool idea | 04:00 |
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| PedersenMJ | good evening | 04:24 |
| SDuensin | Hey PedersenMJ | 04:25 |
| PedersenMJ | How's it going? | 04:25 |
| SDuensin | Other than I'm sick as a dog, not bad. :-) | 04:26 |
| @preaction | that's not good | 04:26 |
| @preaction | in fact, i would go so far as to call that abd | 04:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Meh, I dunno. I've known some sick dogs, and more often than not, it just turns out they need some simple meds, and they're fine. | 04:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Of course, the whole neutering thing sucks. | 04:28 |
| @preaction | whoa, this conversation took a very bad turn | 04:28 |
| SDuensin | hehehe | 04:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, whatever you do, don't get sick as a dog. Lest somebody decide you should be neutered. | 04:30 |
| +crythias | ugh | 04:30 |
| +Radix-wrk | Umm.. yeah | 04:32 |
| +Radix-wrk | Hi Ped | 04:32 |
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| PedersenMJ | Hey, Radix. You're not that sick, are you? | 04:33 |
| +Radix-wrk | I'm pretty sick.. but physically I'm just fine. | 04:33 |
| @preaction | take them both out back and shoot them? | 04:33 |
| PedersenMJ | Nah, that's for horses. | 04:34 |
| @preaction | *sniff* they were the best devs a guy could want | 04:34 |
| * SDuensin is, that's true. | 04:34 | |
| SDuensin | :-P | 04:34 |
| +Radix-wrk | I think you're all pretty sick. | 04:35 |
| @vayde | wouldn't be here if we weren't | 04:36 |
| PedersenMJ | Uh-uh. Definitely not sick. Not with chats of neutering and shooting going on. | 04:36 |
| @vayde | or maybe, we wouldn't feel comfortable here if we weren't sick | 04:36 |
| @vayde | Jeez, you guys have all the interesting chats after I log off | 04:36 |
| +Radix-wrk | PedersenMJ, you're the only one obsessed with neutering I think ;) | 04:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, it was SDuension who said he was sick as a dog. | 04:37 |
| @preaction | a simple figure of speech turns into a bloodbath of neutering and euthenasia | 04:38 |
| +Radix-wrk | hence why I think you're all pretty sick.. in the head. ;) | 04:39 |
| +Radix-wrk | Have you guys ever heard the term "fully sik"? | 04:39 |
| @preaction | i've not not heard of it! | 04:40 |
| @preaction | no wait. just regular not | 04:40 |
| +Radix-wrk | It's an aussie slang used by greeks and lebanese over here to say something is pretty cool | 04:41 |
| +Radix-wrk | ie. "That car is fully sick Habib!" | 04:41 |
| +Radix-wrk | sick/sic/sik are used interchangeably in those sentences | 04:41 |
| @preaction | it's west-coast slang in america, not very midwest yet | 04:42 |
| +Radix-wrk | Became a big thing after the aussie show and movie "Fat Pizza" | 04:42 |
| @preaction | nik's west-coast i think. come to think of it i don't know where nik lives | 04:42 |
| @preaction | ... and fixing one bug reveals another... | 04:43 |
| +Radix-wrk | So to be called "sick" has other connotations over here.. it can also mean very cool | 04:43 |
| @vayde | Im midwest. Minneapolis. Sick here is just, sick. | 04:44 |
| @preaction | vayde: wait, don't we have a staff get-together this weekend sometime? | 04:45 |
| @vayde | week from friday | 04:45 |
| @preaction | good. i thought i forgot. way too much stuff piling up | 04:46 |
| @vayde | Friday the 13th actually. | 04:46 |
| @vayde | fitting I thought | 04:46 |
| @preaction | dear jeebus | 04:47 |
| @preaction | i'll need to bring my garlic | 04:47 |
| @preaction | does garlic work on you people? | 04:47 |
| @vayde | nope, not crucifixes either. We're different sorts of terrible evil | 04:49 |
| @vayde | you could try beer, or women. I confess to having a weakness for either. | 04:49 |
| @vayde | they don't really ward off the evil, just keep it distracted for a while | 04:50 |
| @preaction | how can i ward off evil with evil? more beer? | 04:55 |
| +Radix-wrk | Just bring buffy along | 05:00 |
| @preaction | but buffy is part of the "evil-that-is-greater-than-nik" | 05:01 |
| @vayde | everything's better with more beer | 05:01 |
| @vayde | and yes, please bring buffy | 05:01 |
| @vayde | I like her kind of evil... | 05:02 |
| @preaction | the pretty one or sarah michelle gellar? | 05:02 |
| @vayde | the original please | 05:02 |
| @vayde | speaking of that kind of evil, you guys are lucky, I have managed to persuade the GF that the 'staff get together' is just for staff | 05:04 |
| @vayde | If you think meeting me is a shock, wait till you meet her. | 05:04 |
| +Radix-wrk | You mean this buffy? - http://next-episode.net/babe-of-the-day/babe/470.html | 05:05 |
| +Radix-wrk | Personally, I prefer the series | 05:05 |
| @vayde | yeah, that's the one. | 05:06 |
| @preaction | my gf's 5 foot nothing and about 120 lbs. i'm six-three, 190. our maturity levels are so different she could be my daughter if i weren't always pawing her. i doubt you can shock me :p | 05:06 |
| @preaction | kristy swanson! that's her name | 05:06 |
| +Radix-wrk | favourite episode was Hush - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hush_(Buffy_episode) | 05:06 |
| @vayde | Ok, you thought that the Japanese-Swedish-Scot chinese martial artist who has delusions of being a developer was bad? | 05:06 |
| @vayde | my gf's a costume designer for renaissance festivals, not to mention a slinky, redheaded, tatooed, ex dominatrix and stripper | 05:07 |
| @preaction | i'm shocked | 05:07 |
| @preaction | SHOCK AND AWE | 05:08 |
| @vayde | I win | 05:08 |
| +Radix-wrk | awesome | 05:08 |
| @vayde | just another lure for the next WUC. I don't think you want to put it on the ads though | 05:08 |
| +Radix-wrk | My gf sells drugs for a living - and makes a nice bit of money out of it. | 05:08 |
| * SDuensin takes more of an interested in what vayde has to say | 05:09 | |
| @vayde | heh, I don't know if I can top myself. | 05:10 |
| SDuensin | Well, if your girl is the dominatrix, that makes you a bottom. :-P | 05:11 |
| +Radix-wrk | I went out with a Madam once | 05:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Hmm, lessee: Buy drugs from Radix's gf, or ogle vayde's gf. One legal, one not. One liable to get me punched by three people (vayde, vayde's gf, and my wife), one liable to get me thrown to the ground by large men in blue uniforms who will place me in a large building to stay with large men named Bubba. Tough choice. | 05:11 |
| @vayde | lol | 05:11 |
| @preaction | PedersenMJ: you'd survive the blue men. i'm not sure you'd survive vayde | 05:12 |
| @vayde | naw, she stopped the dominatrix gig a while ago | 05:12 |
| PedersenMJ | Survive the blue men? Sure. Dunno that I'd survive the Bubba's, though. | 05:12 |
| @vayde | I pop the cores of heavy bags with punches. | 05:12 |
| @preaction | webgui question: should different revisions to the same assetId under the same version tag create new revisions? or should an asset only get one revision per version tag? | 05:12 |
| +Radix-wrk | Hmm.. interesting one | 05:13 |
| +Radix-wrk | Currently it does new revisions | 05:13 |
| @preaction | right, but i don't know why | 05:13 |
| @preaction | i mean, when debugging javascript, i've got like 60 revisions of this template | 05:13 |
| +Radix-wrk | Well if something is being edited multiple times before it's committed then you don't necessarily want to lose those changes | 05:14 |
| @preaction | true | 05:14 |
| +Radix-wrk | I think it should really combine all of the revisions done under a revision tag when it's actually committed tho | 05:14 |
| @preaction | what if after its committed some higher power decides they want B (which was deleted when committed)? | 05:15 |
| @preaction | seems to me the issue is all-or-nothing, and there's a better argument for all | 05:15 |
| +Radix-wrk | they'd roll back to the revision prior to the latest commit | 05:15 |
| @preaction | but the changes that made B are lost, A being the original, C being the new | 05:16 |
| @preaction | if B and C were created under the same version tag | 05:16 |
| +Radix-wrk | Oh I see what you mean | 05:16 |
| +Radix-wrk | Yeah.. better argument for all then for those cases | 05:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Too bad there's no good ui to allow the user to choose whether or not to collapse the changes. | 05:17 |
| @preaction | you can delete revisions. perhaps a revision manager much like the asset manager? with a checkbox list so you can select multiple revisions to delete? | 05:19 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ | 05:48 | |
| +perlDreamer | crythias: How you doing, man? | 05:48 |
| +perlDreamer | vayde: I got you test email. I forwarded it back to you with all headers for inspection. | 05:51 |
| @vayde | cool. It turned out there WAS a server issue | 05:51 |
| @vayde | I finally got all the test emails I sent out this afternoon. Boy my 'delete' key got tired | 05:52 |
| +perlDreamer | especially after handling a room of "monsters" | 05:52 |
| @vayde | Yeah, years ago we called them the 'baby class', but word got out, and they were offended. | 05:53 |
| @vayde | then we started calling them the monsters, and word got out. they're proud of it | 05:53 |
| +perlDreamer | it's amazing how labeling works | 05:55 |
| @vayde | It's a fun class. 4~6 yr olds. Not the most technical class around mind you, but entertaining. | 05:56 |
| @preaction | that's cute | 06:01 |
| @preaction | almost as cute as kittens. | 06:02 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: maybe you'd like to go class and tell them that? | 06:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I can see it now | 06:02 |
| @preaction | and have them beat the crap out of me? my gf's 6-year old brother already does that, and he isn't being training in martial art | 06:02 |
| +perlDreamer | vayde can fix that... | 06:03 |
| @preaction | true, though i'm not sure what martial art vayde teaches | 06:03 |
| +perlDreamer | W.A. | 06:03 |
| @preaction | that means nothing to me :( | 06:03 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a redneck term. Whoop Ass | 06:04 |
| @vayde | Hsing-I, Bagua, Taiji, Northern Shaolin Longfist, and Southern Hung Gar | 06:04 |
| @preaction | ah | 06:04 |
| @preaction | and now i know as much as i did before ;) | 06:04 |
| +perlDreamer | usually stored in cans, hence the phrase, "Open up a can of Whoop Ass on you" | 06:04 |
| @vayde | I'll show you guys a bit of it when we're in person | 06:04 |
| @preaction | i imagine there are better disciplines for different types of people? | 06:05 |
| @vayde | It all comes down to physics and physiology. The difference between styles is largely a matter of approach and taste | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, needing a clue here. Why would one use $asset->getValue('assetProperty') instead of $asset->get('assetProperty')? | 06:05 |
| @preaction | pd: i believe getValue has the added benefit of looking at the form first. at least, from the docs i read on it? | 06:07 |
| @preaction | it sounded to me like you could use $asset->getValue() as the value of a form element in an asset edit form and it would automatically survive preview / edit errors | 06:07 |
| +crythias | sorry for delay... perlDreamer. I'm fine. | 06:07 |
| @preaction | of course, i've never used it as such | 06:07 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I think the docs lie | 06:08 |
| @preaction | i do too, because i didn't see anything referring to session->form | 06:08 |
| +perlDreamer | pinging rizen. | 06:08 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen, please report to IRC to beat your clueless volunteer dev | 06:08 |
| -!- crythias is now known as cluelessnewb | 06:10 | |
| +cluelessnewb | what's a webgui? izzat like a browser? | 06:10 |
| +perlDreamer | naw | 06:11 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: getValue just looks like it dupes some of the code in new, for providing defaults from the definition sub. | 06:12 |
| @preaction | perlbot be cluelessnewb | 06:13 |
| perlbot | <cluelessnewb> How I can make teh web wit pearl?!?! | 06:13 |
| +cluelessnewb | how do I get webgui off of me? | 06:13 |
| +perlDreamer | cluelessnewb: lava soap and a camel hair brush | 06:13 |
| +perlDreamer | either that, or wd40 | 06:14 |
| +perlDreamer | it fixes everything | 06:14 |
| +cluelessnewb | webgui sounds like something a spider shoots out of its butt. | 06:14 |
| +cluelessnewb | can you imagine Spderman being more anatomically correct? | 06:15 |
| @vayde | my gf thought the mascot should be cthlulu | 06:15 |
| @preaction | omg gooey totally reminds me of a baby cthlulu | 06:15 |
| @vayde | that's what she said too | 06:15 |
| @vayde | that's alright though, remember, 'evil' spelled backwards is 'live' | 06:16 |
| +cluelessnewb | and Maisey backwards is es I am | 06:17 |
| +cluelessnewb | Yes I am | 06:17 |
| @preaction | Naomi I moan | 06:17 |
| @preaction | A toyota's a toyota | 06:17 |
| @preaction | A dog! A panic in a pagoda! | 06:17 |
| +cluelessnewb | A man a plan a canal. Panama. | 06:18 |
| @vayde | If I could reach you, I would hurt you | 06:18 |
| -!- cluelessnewb is now known as crythias | 06:18 | |
| @preaction | i palindome i! | 06:19 |
| @preaction | someday mother will die and i'll get the money | 06:19 |
| +crythias | I can't believe it's not butter. | 06:20 |
| @rizen | let the beating commence | 06:22 |
| * PedersenMJ breaks out the popcorn. | 06:22 | |
| +perlDreamer | greetings, sensei. Why does one use getValue vs get? | 06:22 |
| @vayde | hajime! | 06:22 |
| +Radix-wrk | !Ah Satan - Natasha! | 06:22 |
| +crythias | Speaking of Cthulhu ... http://www.electric-escape.net/node/1425 | 06:22 |
| @vayde | I got a button for christmas that said: "Jesus saves, Moses invests, Cthulu forcloses!" | 06:24 |
| @rizen | get is the value stored in the db | 06:24 |
| @rizen | getValue is a helper | 06:24 |
| @rizen | it checks the value from form() first | 06:24 |
| @rizen | $session->form->param() | 06:24 |
| @rizen | then gets the value from the db | 06:24 |
| @rizen | then gets the default | 06:24 |
| @rizen | so basically, if the form value exists, it uses that | 06:25 |
| +perlDreamer | the form->param part is missing from getValue | 06:25 |
| @rizen | it is? | 06:25 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 06:25 |
| @rizen | i wonder when it was removed | 06:25 |
| +perlDreamer | before rev 1152 | 06:27 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2401 | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | before rev 24 | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | a very long time ago | 06:28 |
| +perlDreamer | are the CVS archives still online? | 06:28 |
| @rizen | hmmm...perhaps i removed it on purpose | 06:29 |
| @rizen | if it's been gone that long | 06:29 |
| @rizen | then it probably shouldn't be there | 06:29 |
| @rizen | and i just don't remember it | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | so the real difference is that get gives you values from the db, and getValue will give you values from the db OR defaults from the definition sub. | 06:30 |
| @rizen | yup | 06:31 |
| @rizen | we probably don't need getValue() anymore | 06:32 |
| @rizen | we can probably change get() to do that | 06:32 |
| @rizen | and then write getValue() out of existence in the 8.x series | 06:32 |
| @rizen | but that's so far off, who cares | 06:32 |
| +perlDreamer | or new could pull defaults out of the def sub | 06:32 |
| +perlDreamer | then we could drop getValue and leave get as is | 06:33 |
| @rizen | either or...but for now it stays as is | 06:33 |
| @rizen | as i said, who cares | 06:33 |
| @rizen | it's too far off to start thinking about 8.x now | 06:33 |
| +perlDreamer | got it, chief | 06:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll update the POD | 06:34 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll send you a Beating IOU, for another time | 06:36 |
| @rizen | bah...no need | 06:37 |
| @rizen | i'll just take it out on sarah | 06:37 |
| @rizen | =) | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | oh dear | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, while you're here, care to confirm or deny the rumor of WebGUI-Microsoft connection? | 06:38 |
| +Radix-wrk | heh | 06:39 |
| @rizen | what have you heard | 06:39 |
| @rizen | i will admit there have been talks | 06:39 |
| +perlDreamer | well, it seems strange that several PB people would choose to move to the only city whose airport letters are MSN | 06:40 |
| +perlDreamer | from there it was easy to connect the dots | 06:40 |
| +perlDreamer | increased workload | 06:40 |
| +perlDreamer | decreased productivity | 06:40 |
| +perlDreamer | (everyone moved to using Microsoft desktops) | 06:40 |
| @vayde | maybe you should hand over that IOU after all... | 06:41 |
| @rizen | pd: you know why i hired vayde, right? | 06:41 |
| @rizen | it's to conduct beatings on my behalf | 06:42 |
| @rizen | all i can do is brute force the beatings | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | He's a db expert | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | (Designated Beater) | 06:42 |
| @rizen | but he knows how to kill you in 6 different styles | 06:42 |
| @vayde | I'm the complaint department | 06:42 |
| +Radix-wrk | heh | 06:42 |
| +Radix-wrk | heh.. PB Support board just hit 100000 views | 06:45 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.plainblack.com/discuss | 06:46 |
| @rizen | that seems very low | 06:46 |
| +Radix-wrk | rizen: could you do me a favour and rate my rfe when you have a minute? | 06:47 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/additional-post-template-variables-for-cs | 06:47 |
| +Radix-wrk | Compared to the other forums it seems low, but obviously only support users can see the forum, so it's pretty impressive if you look at it that way | 06:49 |
| @rizen | true | 06:50 |
| @rizen | i don't like your RFE's radix | 06:50 |
| +Radix-wrk | why? | 06:50 |
| @rizen | mostly because they are written by you | 06:52 |
| +Radix-wrk | :P | 06:52 |
| @rizen | what if i told you that you can already do this | 06:53 |
| +Radix-wrk | how? I'd love to know | 06:53 |
| @rizen | and even moreso than that, it has far more power than what you're asking for | 06:53 |
| +perlDreamer | "dumber than a box of rocks" rjacobsen is too funny | 06:54 |
| @rizen | what is this information worth to you? | 06:54 |
| @rizen | perhaps you will punch perlDreamer in the arm? | 06:54 |
| +Radix-wrk | sure | 06:55 |
| @rizen | hehe | 06:55 |
| +perlDreamer | left arm please, I have to perform this weekend | 06:55 |
| @vayde | ooh! ooh! pick me! | 06:55 |
| @rizen | the answer you are looking for is ^-; | 06:55 |
| @rizen | let's say you write an article^-; that looks like this | 06:56 |
| @rizen | your synopsis will now be "let's say you write an article" | 06:56 |
| @rizen | the ^-; special character tells webgui where you want to grab the synopsis from | 06:57 |
| @rizen | so rather than taking after the first carriage return | 06:57 |
| @rizen | it will stop at ^-; | 06:57 |
| @rizen | wherever that is in the text | 06:57 |
| @rizen | in addition to that | 06:57 |
| +Radix-wrk | Ahh.. well there's a macro I never knew existed. You're right, that works a treat. | 06:57 |
| @rizen | it's not a macro | 06:57 |
| @rizen | it's just s special sequence of characters | 06:58 |
| @rizen | anyway...in addition to that, you can actually go one step further | 06:58 |
| @rizen | you can expose the synopsis field directly | 06:58 |
| @rizen | then you can type something wholly new into the synopsis if you like | 06:58 |
| @rizen | anyway...i'm going to go ahead and delete your RFE | 06:59 |
| +Radix-wrk | k | 06:59 |
| @rizen | because i would have rejected it anyway | 06:59 |
| @rizen | adding variables like those to the collaboration system would have slowed it down tremendouslyy | 07:00 |
| @rizen | go forth and share this knowledge | 07:01 |
| @rizen | in the form of a wiki article | 07:01 |
| +Radix-wrk | fair enough - preaction did mention that too - but he didn't tell me about ^-; | 07:01 |
| @rizen | he probably didn't know about it | 07:01 |
| +perlDreamer | It also works in the Article | 07:01 |
| @rizen | true | 07:02 |
| @rizen | most people don't even know that the article asset supports pagination | 07:02 |
| +perlDreamer | most people don't read the docs, that's why | 07:03 |
| +Radix-wrk | Happy to write a wiki article for it - though I don't follow the step further you described or how I would do any of that | 07:03 |
| @rizen | it's actually already done for you | 07:03 |
| @rizen | take a look at the "submission form" template vs the "post form" template | 07:03 |
| @rizen | submission form sets up the synopsis as a separate field | 07:04 |
| +perlDreamer | that's another good thing to mention. The marker only works if there is no explicit synopsis. | 07:06 |
| +Radix-wrk | So is this documented anywhere currently? | 07:08 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 07:08 |
| +perlDreamer | it is now, but only in the template variables. | 07:11 |
| +perlDreamer | We can't document it via hover help since there's no hover help for the Post Edit form. | 07:12 |
| +perlDreamer | that's why a wiki article would be great | 07:12 |
| +Radix-wrk | any ideas what the wiki article name should be called? | 07:13 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen's righteous post content synopsis marker | 07:13 |
| +Radix-wrk | I'll write one up now, and at least to describe how to use it in collaboration system posts | 07:13 |
| PedersenMJ | post title: How To Add A Synopsis To Your Collaboration System Posts | 07:16 |
| @rizen | hey pedersenmj | 07:16 |
| @rizen | i've been meaning to talk to you | 07:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Uh-oh... | 07:17 |
| @rizen | one of our hosting customers just launched a new site | 07:17 |
| @rizen | that i think you'll want to check out | 07:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Done esta? | 07:17 |
| @rizen | http://www.playstationnationpodcast.com/ | 07:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Donde esta, even? | 07:17 |
| +Radix-wrk | hehe.. cool | 07:17 |
| +Radix-wrk | burned theme | 07:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Too cool! | 07:17 |
| PedersenMJ | That totally took me by surprise. Thank you :) | 07:18 |
| @rizen | so see | 07:18 |
| @rizen | your work paid off already | 07:18 |
| @rizen | you should do more of those for the contest we have going on right now | 07:18 |
| +Radix-wrk | needs to be original work tho | 07:18 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm going to. Calypso is going to go up this week. I think MultiFlex next week. | 07:18 |
| @rizen | nope | 07:18 |
| @rizen | i had kristi change the rules | 07:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Dunno which one for the week after, though. | 07:19 |
| +Radix-wrk | Oh? | 07:19 |
| @rizen | you can use open source designs | 07:19 |
| @rizen | provided you provide a link back to the original | 07:19 |
| @rizen | so we know you didn't rip it off | 07:19 |
| +Radix-wrk | Oh cool.. means I could look at entering too then | 07:19 |
| @rizen | sweet | 07:19 |
| +Radix-wrk | I could never do my own.. but I can rip off someone elses witht he best of them ;) | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | andreas01 | 07:20 |
| PedersenMJ | Ditto here. I suck at original, but rip a theme? That's easy. | 07:20 |
| @rizen | oh btw guys, i'll be sending out your schwag and whatnot next week for the wiki contest | 07:20 |
| @rizen | i'm a little behind | 07:20 |
| @rizen | sorry about that | 07:20 |
| +Radix-wrk | np :) | 07:21 |
| PedersenMJ | That's cool. | 07:21 |
| @rizen | we're short two people, and i have another on vacation | 07:21 |
| @rizen | so i'm working 4 jobs right now | 07:21 |
| @rizen | =) | 07:21 |
| PedersenMJ | If I'm really lucky, I can get a bit more outta the theme contest ;) | 07:21 |
| @rizen | true | 07:21 |
| @rizen | anyway...gotta get some sleep | 07:21 |
| @rizen | later | 07:21 |
| PedersenMJ | l8r | 07:22 |
| +perlDreamer | he works too hard | 07:22 |
| +perlDreamer | Bill should give him a raise | 07:22 |
| @vayde | Bill? | 07:24 |
| +perlDreamer | Gates | 07:24 |
| @vayde | lol | 07:24 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/how-to-add-a-synopsis-to-your-collaboration-system-templates | 07:37 |
| +perlDreamer | Radix-*, you rock | 07:39 |
| +Radix-wrk | hopefully I've explained it well enough for ppl to understand | 07:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Radix: What are post templates? | 07:44 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.bash.org/?21784 | 07:47 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.plainblack.com/?op=viewHelp;hid=collaboration%20post%20list%20template%20variables;namespace=Asset_Collaboration | 07:50 |
| +perlDreamer | having re-re-vanquished the monster, our hero exists stage left | 07:50 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] | 07:50 | |
| PedersenMJ | Damn, I didn't expect you to reply to that with anything other than a growl. | 07:51 |
| @vayde | ugh, need sleep. Later gents | 07:52 |
| @preaction | you people and your "sleep" | 07:53 |
| @preaction | it's so cute | 07:53 |
| +Radix-wrk | cya vayde | 07:53 |
| -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] | 07:53 | |
| PedersenMJ | I'm heading for sleep too. | 07:53 |
| +Radix-wrk | wuss | 07:53 |
| @preaction | is it bad that i do not remember the last time i slept? | 07:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, I am. I start to pass out at 1am in a non-recoverable fashion. | 07:53 |
| PedersenMJ | l8r all | 07:54 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] | 07:54 | |
| +Radix-wrk | sleep probs preaction? | 07:56 |
| @preaction | so much to do, caffiene to do it, caffiene causes inability to sleep, then eventually it becomes "if i sleep now, i won't get up in time for *" | 07:56 |
| @preaction | like now: in order to make the meeting tomorrow at 8a, i need to drop my car off at the shop tonight, walk home. meaning another hour of wake-time | 07:57 |
| @preaction | meaning 6.5 hours of sleep | 07:57 |
| +Radix-wrk | better than nothing | 07:57 |
| @preaction | as JT said, we're working more than one person's job :p | 07:57 |
| +Radix-wrk | He mentioned that you guys are down two people - roy is one obviously.. who was the other? | 07:58 |
| @preaction | Drake | 08:00 |
| @preaction | left before the new year | 08:00 |
| +Radix-wrk | He was barely a blip on the radar really | 08:00 |
| @preaction | durno, he was hired before i was. i think instead of me actually | 08:01 |
| +Radix-wrk | he was hired around the same time the WUC was on.. I spoke to him briefly then and he was only just starting | 08:01 |
| +Radix-wrk | So September to December - maybe two/three months.. | 08:02 |
| @preaction | yeah, if it weren't for him, you'd've been meeting me ;) | 08:02 |
| @preaction | 18 years old, i still can't believe it | 08:02 |
| +Radix-wrk | eeks.. scary | 08:02 |
| @preaction | i would've been meek kitten though, instead, when you meet me, i get to be power-webgui-god | 08:03 |
| @preaction | i'll need a suit | 08:03 |
| +Radix-wrk | heh | 08:03 |
| @preaction | a white suit | 08:03 |
| @preaction | white top hat and cane | 08:03 |
| @preaction | unf | 08:03 |
| +Radix-wrk | sounds like a photo op - with your gf dressed up next to ya ;) | 08:04 |
| @preaction | pfft, i'll get my hos on my wings, boi | 08:05 |
| @preaction | anyway, gone drop car off / sleep. cya | 08:13 |
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| -!- wgGuest84 [n=wgGuest8@s208148.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #webgui | 11:19 | |
| wgGuest84 | hello | 11:20 |
| wgGuest84 | i need some help on troubleshooting webgui 7.3.13 installation | 11:20 |
| wgGuest84 | can I get help from somebody ? | 11:22 |
| +Radix-wrk | wassup | 11:23 |
| +Radix-wrk | can't guarantee i can help, but I can listen! :) | 11:23 |
| wgGuest84 | thnx | 11:24 |
| wgGuest84 | i installed webgui 7.3.13 | 11:24 |
| wgGuest84 | and did all the setup | 11:24 |
| wgGuest84 | when I try to run the apache + | 11:24 |
| wgGuest84 | Starting WebGUI 7.3.13 | 11:25 |
| wgGuest84 | Loading www.domain.com.conf | 11:25 |
| wgGuest84 | WebGUI Started! | 11:25 |
| wgGuest84 | usr/local/apache2/bin/apachectl: line 78: 5622 7d424e863057307e3057305f $HTTPD -k $ARGV | 11:25 |
| wgGuest84 | and the server stops responding for a while | 11:25 |
| wgGuest84 | i checked with # /data/WebGUI/sbin/perl preload.perl | 11:25 |
| wgGuest84 | it shows: + | 11:25 |
| wgGuest84 | Can't locate object method "server" via package "Apache2::ServerUtil" at preload.perl line 57.. | 11:26 |
| wgGuest84 | i posted this trouble in forum (last message in http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/cant-locate-object-method-server/3) | 11:26 |
| wgGuest84 | can you please give me any idea ? | 11:27 |
| wgGuest84 | r u listening Radix-wrk ? | 11:41 |
| +Radix-wrk | Sorry.. was busy for a bit then.. lemme catch up. | 11:43 |
| +Radix-wrk | How are you installing webgui? are you using the WRE? | 11:43 |
| wgGuest84 | no | 11:44 |
| wgGuest84 | from source | 11:44 |
| wgGuest84 | in a centOS | 11:44 |
| +Radix-wrk | okay.. have you checked your perl setup using /data/WebGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl | 11:44 |
| wgGuest84 | yes.. | 11:44 |
| +Radix-wrk | Sounds like a perl module is missing from the error message, but not sure what it would be I'm afraid. | 11:46 |
| +Radix-wrk | Any particular reason you're not using the WRE? | 11:46 |
| wgGuest84 | i checked.. Apache2::ServerUtil is there | 11:46 |
| wgGuest84 | actually I am preparing a development server.. where there will be a lots of changes in source | 11:47 |
| +Radix-wrk | WebGUI has a lot of perl dependencies, and the WRE is the recommended installation method for this very reason | 11:47 |
| +Radix-wrk | there is a WRE installation for centos though, and it makes life soooo much easier | 11:48 |
| +Radix-wrk | that's what we're using | 11:48 |
| wgGuest84 | actually I used another previous version before | 11:48 |
| wgGuest84 | 7.3... | 11:48 |
| wgGuest84 | i installed from source that time.. | 11:49 |
| wgGuest84 | but didnt face such problem | 11:49 |
| wgGuest84 | it's a requirement anyway to install from the source | 11:49 |
| wgGuest84 | i am stucked with this error from yesterday :( | 11:49 |
| +Radix-wrk | I don't know I'm afraid.. it sounds like there's a missing perl module that isn't tested in testEnvironment, but not sure how to fix it offhand. | 11:50 |
| +Radix-wrk | Most of the developers are asleep at the moment, preaction and rizen might be able to tell you what it is when they wake up. | 11:50 |
| wgGuest84 | could u have a look in the details of my problem that i posted in the forum? | 11:51 |
| +Radix-wrk | but that probably won't be for several hours - it's the middle of the night for them atm | 11:51 |
| wgGuest84 | i c | 11:51 |
| +Radix-wrk | yeah, I've had a look - I'm not that familiar with the source install and perl modules needed these days tho | 11:51 |
| wgGuest84 | i c | 11:51 |
| +Radix-wrk | I use Centos myself, but I installed the WRE for it | 11:51 |
| +Radix-wrk | it is THE best way to install webgui - without a doubt | 11:51 |
| +Radix-wrk | I can do a base install of webgui on centos within minutes | 11:52 |
| +Radix-wrk | using the wre for rhel4 | 11:52 |
| wgGuest84 | but since there is a source release.. that is of some use surely like we are using..:) | 11:52 |
| wgGuest84 | in fact webGUI did great on our last project.. | 11:53 |
| +Radix-wrk | Yeah, I haven't used a source install since version 6.8 tho | 11:53 |
| wgGuest84 | so, what do u suggest as of now ? | 11:53 |
| +Radix-wrk | I was having odd issues with perl modules on my previous setup and when i switched to the WRE they all went away - I've been with the WRE ever since | 11:53 |
| +Radix-wrk | I'd highly recommend taking a look at the WRE if you can | 11:54 |
| +Radix-wrk | if you must stick with a source install, I'd come back in say 5-6 hours and try and catch preaction or rizen | 11:54 |
| wgGuest84 | is it like.. installing from WRE then I can use the source installation ? | 11:54 |
| +Radix-wrk | the WRE gives you all of the perl source if that's what you mean | 11:55 |
| +Radix-wrk | the WRE is a tar.gz file that contains everything you need to run WebGUI - all the perl modules, mysql, apache, etc all in one big file | 11:55 |
| +Radix-wrk | well.. kinda.. it downloads the latest webgui source and installs that really | 11:56 |
| +Radix-wrk | the WRE is everything you need to RUN webgui | 11:56 |
| wgGuest84 | o..the team leader just solved the problem | 11:56 |
| wgGuest84 | webGUI is now running fine | 11:56 |
| +Radix-wrk | excellent | 11:56 |
| +Radix-wrk | what was it then? | 11:56 |
| +Radix-wrk | I'd still recommend the WRE. Using the wre simplifies upgrades and comes with fully preconfigured apache optimised for webgui. It also has some nice scripts to quickly add new webgui websites with ease | 11:58 |
| +Radix-wrk | it also makes backing up and cloning a webgui setup so much easier - just copy one directory onto a blank system. | 11:59 |
| wgGuest84 | sorry.. was talking to him | 11:59 |
| +Radix-wrk | No probs | 11:59 |
| wgGuest84 | actually he changed some settings in apache-> httpd.conf | 11:59 |
| wgGuest84 | he added user "daemon" and Group "daemon" | 11:59 |
| wgGuest84 | probably its the spectre who needs those | 12:00 |
| +Radix-wrk | wierd.. didn't sound like that was where the problem was to me.. but if it fixed it who am I to argue! :) | 12:00 |
| wgGuest84 | :) | 12:00 |
| wgGuest84 | yeah.. the error message was misleading | 12:01 |
| +Radix-wrk | I'm afraid I'm gonna head off.. 5pm here (and 6pm for you I suspect) - have a good easter! :) | 12:01 |
| wgGuest84 | o..thanks | 12:01 |
| wgGuest84 | it ws nice talking to u | 12:01 |
| +Radix-wrk | Do itashimashite! | 12:01 |
| wgGuest84 | wow !! | 12:01 |
| wgGuest84 | u know japanese | 12:01 |
| wgGuest84 | btw... where r u ? | 12:01 |
| +Radix-wrk | I know a little | 12:02 |
| +Radix-wrk | from Perth, Western Australia | 12:02 |
| wgGuest84 | i c | 12:02 |
| wgGuest84 | one question if u dont mind | 12:02 |
| +Radix-wrk | I've been to tokyo though and know a lot of japanese :) | 12:02 |
| wgGuest84 | how can i join this irc channel from visual iRC | 12:02 |
| wgGuest84 | ( that's cool :) ) | 12:02 |
| +Radix-wrk | jump on the server irc.freenode.net I think and the channel is #webgui | 12:02 |
| wgGuest84 | i couldnt find irc.freenode.net.. actually I am not much used to use IRC | 12:03 |
| +Radix-wrk | try using something like /server irc.freenode.net and it should get you here | 12:03 |
| +Radix-wrk | then /join #webgui | 12:03 |
| wgGuest84 | o...i will try.. | 12:03 |
| wgGuest84 | thanks a lot for ur help | 12:04 |
| +Radix-wrk | no probs.. hope to see you here more often in future! | 12:04 |
| wgGuest84 | i hope too :) | 12:04 |
| +Radix-wrk | lots of useful and interesting stuff gets discussed here, so worthwhile dropping in and idling like I do :) | 12:04 |
| wgGuest84 | that's good.. i would like to do that.. | 12:04 |
| +Radix-wrk | ja ne! | 12:04 |
| wgGuest84 | arigatou-gozaimasu | 12:05 |
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| syedm | nick sstanvir | 13:08 |
| -!- syedm is now known as sstanvir | 13:09 | |
| +Radix_ | Home! :) | 13:09 |
| sstanvir | good :) | 13:10 |
| sstanvir | so.. that ws ur work nick Radix_wrk ? | 13:10 |
| +Radix_ | yup | 13:10 |
| sstanvir | i ws also thinking so | 13:10 |
| sstanvir | mystery is my problem came back again :( | 13:11 |
| +Radix_ | what do the apache logs say? | 13:12 |
| +Radix_ | and what is in webgui.log | 13:12 |
| +Radix_ | perlbot paste | 13:12 |
| perlbot | Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. | 13:12 |
| sstanvir | in the apache log nothing | 13:12 |
| +Radix_ | You can paste the info using one of those instead of spamming it to the channel | 13:12 |
| sstanvir | i c, ok | 13:13 |
| sstanvir | thnx for the info | 13:13 |
| +Radix_ | np | 13:13 |
| sstanvir | but I dont want to disturb u with the issues | 13:13 |
| sstanvir | otsukare-sama-desu :) | 13:13 |
| +Radix_ | With your dev box.. do you have anything else on it? | 13:14 |
| +Radix_ | or is it set up just for webgui? | 13:14 |
| sstanvir | its newly setup | 13:15 |
| +Radix_ | If it's just for webgui, then there's absolutely no reason not to use the WRE | 13:15 |
| +Radix_ | you can install the wre and webgui within minutes on a blank centos box | 13:15 |
| sstanvir | actuallly what is the difference between the WRE and the source release ? | 13:15 |
| +Radix_ | the WRE is everything you need to run WebGUI - so it's a special distribution of apache/mysql/perl and all the perl modules webgui depends on. It also includes scripts to help you get started quickly with Webgui. | 13:16 |
| +Radix_ | It doesn't actually include webgui itself - it downloads that as part of the setup | 13:17 |
| sstanvir | i c | 13:17 |
| sstanvir | brb | 13:18 |
| +Radix_ | with centos I generally do a basic install, no mysql, apache, perl, etc at all installed | 13:20 |
| +Radix_ | then you install the wre and run the setup | 13:20 |
| sstanvir | understood | 13:20 |
| sstanvir | actually it depends on the team leader.. I will try to convince him | 13:21 |
| +Radix_ | the only gotcha I've found is you need to make sure you delete any /etc/my.cnf files that might be there | 13:21 |
| +Radix_ | I might point out that the WRE is the recommended method for using webgui according to plainblack - and the best way to get support also | 13:22 |
| +Radix_ | there's info in the wiki on doing an install too | 13:22 |
| sstanvir | yes.. i checked the web | 13:23 |
| sstanvir | it looks simple to install from the wre.. | 13:24 |
| +Radix_ | it is.. it's great :) | 13:25 |
| sstanvir | you already convinced me | 13:25 |
| +Radix_ | good.. my job is done here then ;) | 13:25 |
| sstanvir | haha | 13:25 |
| sstanvir | but now is the toughest part to convince the Tl | 13:26 |
| sstanvir | anyway... | 13:26 |
| sstanvir | thanks a lot for ur time | 13:26 |
| +Radix_ | Good luck! :) | 13:26 |
| +Radix_ | time for me to get supplies for the easter long weekend here :) | 13:26 |
| +Radix_ | four days holiday have just started for me :) | 13:26 |
| sstanvir | wow! | 13:26 |
| sstanvir | i am sure u have lots of plans | 13:27 |
| +Radix_ | got a friend's wedding to attend, and looks like we might be doing some archery and some karaoke this weekend too.. should be fun! :) | 13:27 |
| sstanvir | great | 13:27 |
| sstanvir | Have a nice holidays !! | 13:27 |
| sstanvir | Catch you again! | 13:28 |
| sstanvir | bye | 13:29 |
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| nuba | nice holidays folks! | 15:04 |
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| SDuensin | Good morningish. | 18:20 |
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| perlmonkey2 | quiet today | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | muy | 20:51 |
| perlmonkey2 | webgui religious holiday? | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | how goes the Moose rewrite? | 20:51 |
| perlmonkey2 | heh | 20:51 |
| perlmonkey2 | I think I'll focus my extra time on p6. | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I did some p6 test suite hacking for a few weeks | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | then the spec changed from under me | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | so I worked around it | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | then it changed again, and I gave up | 20:52 |
| perlmonkey2 | a very fluid dev env. | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | it is | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | which allows for very powerful dynamics | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | but also exposes you to lots of criticism from outside observers | 20:53 |
| perlmonkey2 | I only take criticism from Perl::Critic. | 20:54 |
| perlmonkey2 | or anyone else who bothers to tell me my work is crap ;) | 20:54 |
| @vayde | We need a wG forum/nick translation hash. | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | can gooeybot help us? | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | or perlbot? | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: rizen? | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: perlDreamer? | 21:16 |
| -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui | 21:22 | |
| @vayde | :q | 21:24 |
| @vayde | oops, wrong window ;P | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | Never quit, never surrender | 21:25 |
| @vayde | that file couldn't handle any more attention from me | 21:25 |
| @vayde | the wimp | 21:25 |
| ckotil | perlbot channel log | 22:12 |
| @rizen | perlbot: perlbot? | 22:14 |
| perlbot | Perl OO tricks and examples - http://perldoc.perl.org/perlbot.html | 22:14 |
| ckotil | perlbot: log | 22:15 |
| ckotil | perlbot: log? | 22:15 |
| ckotil | bah, perlbot isnt playing nice | 22:16 |
| @rizen | perlbot, rizen is JT, the creator of WebGUI, aka TMRFE | 22:16 |
| perlbot | added rizen to the database | 22:16 |
| @rizen | perlbot: rizen? | 22:16 |
| perlbot | JT, the creator of WebGUI, aka TMRFE | 22:16 |
| @rizen | perlbot, perlDreamer is Colin Kuskie, Contributor of the Year, and jack of all trades | 22:16 |
| perlbot | added perlDreamer to the database | 22:16 |
| @rizen | how's that for your pd? | 22:17 |
| @rizen | perlbot, vayde Nik Ogura, aka bengchoi, aka Nik, is a WebGUI padawan learner | 22:18 |
| perlbot | added vayde Nik Ogura, aka bengchoi, aka Nik, to the database | 22:18 |
| @rizen | perlbot vayde? | 22:19 |
| @rizen | perlbot forget vayde Nik Ogura, aka bengchoi, aka Nik, | 22:19 |
| perlbot | removed vayde Nik Ogura, aka bengchoi, aka Nik, from the database | 22:19 |
| @rizen | perlbot, vayde is Nik Ogura, aka bengchoi, aka Nik, is a WebGUI padawan learner | 22:19 |
| perlbot | added vayde to the database | 22:19 |
| MrHairgreas1 | perlbot TMRFE? | 22:21 |
| perlbot | The Man Responsible For Everything -- Sometimes you DO have someone to blame. | 22:21 |
| MrHairgreas1 | perlbot pomade? | 22:22 |
| MrHairgreas1 | perlbot MrHairgrease | 22:22 |
| MrHairgreas1 | perlbot MrHairgrease? | 22:22 |
| @vayde | Jeez, I pop off for a bite, and everyone's talking about me behind my back | 22:25 |
| @rizen | perlbot, MrHairGrease is Martin Kamerbeek, aka MrCookingGrease, aka Eurotrash with sex appeal, and is a Contributor of the Year | 22:33 |
| perlbot | added MrHairGrease to the database | 22:33 |
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| +MrHairgrease | perlbot maxscience? | 22:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | perlbot iPhoneGuy? | 22:35 |
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| +MrHairgrease | ha well, ignorance is bliss i think | 22:35 |
| @rizen | perlbot, maxscience is iPhoneGuy, some ridiculous bastard from Italy that bitches as loud as he can scream, but is unwilling to lift a finger to help out | 22:37 |
| perlbot | added maxscience to the database | 22:37 |
| @vayde | sounds like there's quite a story there | 22:38 |
| @preaction | what's the WebGUI::Commerce::Item->handler sub for? is it executed after the item is purchased? | 22:38 |
| @preaction | after checkout, say? | 22:38 |
| @rizen | dont' know...i'd have to track it down in the code | 22:39 |
| @rizen | perhaps MrHairGrease knows | 22:39 |
| @preaction | the docs for the sub say "this executes the handler". no real description of its actual purpose | 22:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | the handler is executed on payment | 22:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | it handles the group timeout extension for subscriptions for instance | 22:46 |
| @preaction | when the transaction is completed, i see now | 22:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 22:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | and also on complete recurring payments | 22:47 |
| @preaction | which means technically there's no cart at that moment, correct? | 22:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | well | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | i would think so | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | it has been some time since i last looked at it | 22:48 |
| @preaction | the idea is this: i need the ID of the cart that the item belonged to | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | carts don't don't have an id | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | a cart i tied to a session | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | maybe you mean the transaction id? | 22:49 |
| @preaction | then how do carts survive across sessions? | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | they don't | 22:50 |
| @preaction | how can i logout and log back in and still have items in my cart? | 22:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 22:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | let me see | 22:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | i know | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you log out | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | your session id stays the same | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | but visiutor is tied to it | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 22:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | that must be it | 22:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | WG::C::ShoppingCart->new doesn't have any userId awareness | 22:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | only sessionId | 22:53 |
| @vayde | Is there an easy way to tell when a modification was placed into the core? Right now I'm doing it the hard way, but downloading the old version, untarring it and looking at the file. We're all way to lazy to put up with that b.s. for long | 22:57 |
| @preaction | svn blame | 22:58 |
| @preaction | gives you the revision number of lines of the code iirc | 22:58 |
| @vayde | thanks | 22:59 |
| @vayde | Ok, now having found the right svn version, how do I relate that to an actual release? (I'm very new to svn) | 23:02 |
| @preaction | http://svn.webgui.org <- look up the messages around the revision, the first one that says "X.X.X released" is the version it was in | 23:11 |
| @vayde | ahh. little things that make all the difference. thanks | 23:11 |
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| @vayde | Wow, JT asked me about the picture of me on my studio website, so I sent him an older one, his reaction was so violent that it crashed both my IRC client, and Gaim. | 23:32 |
| @vayde | Now that's some bad-assed kung fu! | 23:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | show it! show it! | 23:33 |
| @vayde | um, how do I do that here? It's not online | 23:33 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | post it on PB.com in the contribs area? | 23:34 |
| @preaction | >_> <_> <_< | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | email it out? | 23:34 |
| @preaction | ^(--@^@--)> | 23:34 |
| @preaction | youtube! | 23:34 |
| @preaction | show us the monsters! | 23:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://www.themonsters.ch | 23:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | tomorrow I'm gonna see them play in utrecht | 23:35 |
| @preaction | nice | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | they suck. Their website uses frames. | 23:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | who cares | 23:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm not going all the way to utrecht just to watch their stupid website =) | 23:38 |
| @vayde | http://www.uma-mn.com/Pics/Rennaissance.JPG | 23:38 |
| @vayde | that's about 12 - 15 yrs old | 23:39 |
| @vayde | 12-15 years ago anyway | 23:39 |
| @vayde | http://www.uma-mn.com/Pics/img_2672.jpg | 23:39 |
| @vayde | that's last year | 23:39 |
| * MrHairgrease 's gaim is about to implode | 23:39 | |
| +MrHairgrease | what is it? | 23:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | some kind of medieval reenaction? | 23:40 |
| @vayde | the thing next to the girl is me | 23:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | didn't know you ware red dresses | 23:41 |
| @vayde | heh | 23:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | there's that eurotrash humor for you =) | 23:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | don't even try to laugh | 23:41 |
| @vayde | I sincerely you don't have girls over there with as much facial hair as I have. | 23:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | who can what's what with all these costumes | 23:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | can tell* | 23:44 |
| @vayde | what can I say, that's how the gf makes a living, working up those court gowns | 23:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 23:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | but i can imagine jt's reaction | 23:47 |
| @vayde | he brought it up | 23:48 |
| SDuensin | Dang vayde - looked at your pics. Now I want to go to Pennsic again. | 23:50 |
| @vayde | Pennsic? | 23:50 |
| * SDuensin smacks his head | 23:51 | |
| SDuensin | Only the largest SCA event ever. | 23:51 |
| @vayde | Ahh. | 23:51 |
| SDuensin | http://www.pennsic.net/ | 23:51 |
| @vayde | I had bad experiences with the SVA crowd. I hope they're better these days | 23:51 |
| SDuensin | Probably depends on the group. I've never had problems myself. Now some other groups, that's a different story. | 23:52 |
| @vayde | One incident when I was berated for my heraldic design from a guy who was wearing a metal watch, photogrey glasses, and had his armor held together with duct tape | 23:52 |
| SDuensin | hehehehe | 23:52 |
| SDuensin | You'd have been proud of me. Some chick with frickin' skull and crossbones tights and elf ears wandered into our camp. I chased her off with Yard Guard. | 23:58 |
| @vayde | LOL | 23:59 |
| SDuensin | "We're gypsies!" No, you're morons. | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Fri Apr 06 2007 | ||
| SDuensin | I'm no authenticity police, but man, come on - at least try. Elf ears?! | 00:00 |
| * SDuensin doesn't mind the Coke can at feast. | 00:00 | |
| @vayde | I have fun. The gf's daughter is 16, and very popular with the lads. I get to growl and stomp. "Hi there you must be the new vict- er boyfriend" | 00:01 |
| SDuensin | ehhehe | 00:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | maybe they'd like to come to the 5-year old class to help out? | 00:26 |
| +perlDreamer | They're only five years old, after all... | 00:27 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ | 00:31 | |
| @rizen | i need some opinions | 00:32 |
| @rizen | who's got em to spare? | 00:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | yo | 00:32 |
| @rizen | http://jt.plainblack.com/uploads/DZ/Hu/DZHuIEGTBk7z_HU-JOW-iw/Webgui-site-rev4.jpg | 00:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | positive or negative? | 00:32 |
| @rizen | honest | 00:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | you suck =) | 00:33 |
| @rizen | this is the potential design for the new webgui.org | 00:33 |
| @rizen | split off from plainblack.com | 00:33 |
| @rizen | i'm pretty happy with it | 00:33 |
| @rizen | but before we proceed, i'd like a few gut reactions | 00:33 |
| +perlDreamer | not bad for a front page | 00:33 |
| +MrHairgrease | the design is good | 00:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | but i don't like the yellow | 00:34 |
| +perlDreamer | what does real front page look like (the one that analogs pb.com/support)? | 00:34 |
| @rizen | pd, this isn't about content | 00:34 |
| @rizen | this is about style | 00:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | what is good | 00:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | at least i guess | 00:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | is that is does not have the generic-clean-look that mambo and joomla etc have | 00:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | it kinda makes it stand out | 00:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | otoh those 'clean' layouts have a more professional touch | 00:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | sober like the tax department | 00:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | also | 00:37 |
| @rizen | i think it looks clean, it's just not sparse like those | 00:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | i don't like the blue webgui logo | 00:37 |
| @rizen | the logo is orange like always | 00:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | left of that | 00:37 |
| @rizen | or do you mean the font that says "webgui" | 00:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 00:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | the font is just not my thing | 00:37 |
| @rizen | ok, it's one thing to say that you don't like the colors (yellow background, blue font), but i need to know why | 00:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | it has this 90's a have website appeal | 00:38 |
| @rizen | without the why, i can't change it to something good | 00:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 00:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | let me think on how to word that | 00:38 |
| @rizen | so you also don't like the modern font? | 00:38 |
| @rizen | in addition to the color? | 00:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes | 00:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | and it's background | 00:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | it just doesn't fit in with the rest | 00:40 |
| @vayde | I think the yellow draws the attention away from the content. It should frame it, point it up, not overwhelm it | 00:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | i guess why i don't like the color is | 00:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | b/c their 'weak' | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | it needs more content area | 00:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | i know the dutch word | 00:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | but i dunno the translation | 00:41 |
| @vayde | more content area, yeah. content seems buried | 00:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 00:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | little content on the frontpage is good | 00:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | people will only read two lines or so | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | but rizen said this is "the style" | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | are sub-page style different rizen? | 00:42 |
| @vayde | right, but that's what we're talking about | 00:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | the download button is good | 00:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | very visible | 00:42 |
| @vayde | not necessarily what the content is, but the balance between the content area and the stuff on the left seems visually off. | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | the links to the forums and wiki needs to be as visible | 00:43 |
| @rizen | the design you're looking at is the front page design, but all the other pages will be a variation on a theme | 00:44 |
| @rizen | for example | 00:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah, but that's those three buttons below the content right? | 00:44 |
| +perlDreamer | if so, then I'm happy | 00:44 |
| @rizen | the banner for the webgui conference is will not be on every page, that's only to show off an example crown | 00:44 |
| @rizen | on most content pages, the content section will be pushed up | 00:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | what i mean by colors and visibility is eg. the firebug page | 00:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://www.getfirebug.com/ | 00:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | strong colors | 00:45 |
| @rizen | also the page will be stretchy, it won't be limited to the width you're seeing it at now | 00:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | big content that says what the stuff does | 00:45 |
| @rizen | so there will be plenty of room for content | 00:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | and a big install me button | 00:45 |
| +perlDreamer | Let me roll up my opinion. I like it. It's bright and different without looking bad. Links to wiki and forum need to be prominent and content areas should be maximized . | 00:45 |
| @rizen | on the pages that need it the yellow strip on the right side will be stretched out, and the "recent discussion" macro will go in there | 00:46 |
| @rizen | MrHairGrease, I could also argue that the colors of the firebug site are weak | 00:47 |
| @rizen | mustard yellow is not a weak color | 00:47 |
| @rizen | it's not like canary yellow | 00:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | you asked my my opinion | 00:47 |
| +perlDreamer | how does Gooey look on there? does he clash? | 00:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's one of the few things that is not negotiable with me =) | 00:47 |
| @rizen | i know...and i'm not trying to say that your opinion is wrong, just that i don't agree that the colors are weak | 00:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | what i mean with weak is their too pastel for my tastes | 00:48 |
| @rizen | gooey looks great | 00:48 |
| @rizen | gooey is pastel you moron | 00:48 |
| @rizen | =) | 00:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | never said i liked gooey too =) | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | watch out, them's fighting words! | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | insulting a project's mascot is like making a website in baby-puke yellow | 00:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | never had any children | 00:49 |
| @rizen | purple and yellow are great colors together...that's part of the reason we chose yellow as the background color here | 00:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | wouldn't know what that looks like | 00:49 |
| @rizen | purple and yellow are the colors of royalty | 00:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | ha | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | trust me on this one, MHG. Given the bilious nature of stomach acid, it's baby-puke yellow. | 00:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | the only royalty i care for is royaly sized drinks | 00:50 |
| @vayde | not to mention the colors of the MN Vikings | 00:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | pd: thanks for the tip | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | But this is Wisconsin.....? | 00:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'll put children on hold for even longer =) | 00:50 |
| * SDuensin still doesn't like the yellow. | 00:51 | |
| @rizen | webgui is bigger than wisconsin | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | MrHairGrease, if you weaken and need a refresher, we can take care of you. | 00:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | pd thanks | 00:51 |
| @rizen | SDuensin...is it because you don't like yellow as a color, or the particular yellows that we've chosen? | 00:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | nice to be able to count on people | 00:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | rizen, with weak is meant pale | 00:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's the word i was looking for | 00:52 |
| SDuensin | I just don't care for it as the base color on a web site. | 00:52 |
| @rizen | so your bias is against yellow in general then | 00:53 |
| @rizen | not specifically the colors we've chosen | 00:53 |
| SDuensin | Yea | 00:53 |
| @rizen | ok...quick poll...who here won't like this design no matter what variety of yellow we put on it? | 00:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's not really my taste | 00:56 |
| SDuensin | Design is fine with me. The font on the lozenges is a bit hard to read. | 00:56 |
| @vayde | the lozenge font is hard to read | 00:57 |
| @rizen | we'll be using a different font on the lozenge when we go out, cuz i can't read it either | 00:57 |
| @vayde | the Z's could be taken for an attempt at a lower case L | 00:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's the same font as the webgui image | 00:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | next to the logo | 00:58 |
| @rizen | yeah, but big you can read it. small you can't | 00:58 |
| @rizen | some fonts are just like that | 00:58 |
| @vayde | It's cool, it just takes a couple more seconds to decipher | 00:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | vayde don't you worry about that photo you sent jt | 01:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | check this out: | 01:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://jt.plainblack.com/uploads/ph/Wv/phWv1xzJkxfxxHor9fVVew/jt_face.jpg | 01:23 |
| @rizen | that's a beautiful face | 01:24 |
| +perlDreamer | it's the face of death! | 01:25 |
| +perlDreamer | or at least badly hungover | 01:25 |
| @rizen | this is an even better close-up, you can really see the detail in the eyes | 01:25 |
| @rizen | http://www.bownds.net/uploads/xW/WS/xWWS5RE23tXxpVwiFQbtkg/jteyes-small.jpg | 01:25 |
| @preaction | remind me to never do anything to annoy JT again | 01:26 |
| +perlDreamer | don't call him sweetie, preaction | 01:26 |
| @preaction | checkaroonie | 01:26 |
| +perlDreamer | it makes his eyeballs spin in the other direction | 01:26 |
| @rizen | oooh...and the hand tatoo http://www.bownds.net/uploads/xW/WS/xWWS5RE23tXxpVwiFQbtkg/jt_side.jpg | 01:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | perlbot carebare is the ever cuddly rizen | 01:26 |
| perlbot | added carebare to the database | 01:26 |
| @preaction | rizen: LARP? | 01:26 |
| @rizen | nope...halloween 2002 | 01:27 |
| @preaction | ah | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: LARP? | 01:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | ha | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | Los Angeles Riot Police? | 01:27 |
| @rizen | a little less scary in 2004: http://www.bownds.net/uploads/nW/GU/nWGUUFrr4y5NA-9ko6xt4w/jt_and_sarah_as_fred_and_wilma.jpg | 01:27 |
| @preaction | perlbot LARP is Live-Action Role Playing -- One of the last vestiges of the uber-geek. | 01:27 |
| perlbot | added LARP to the database | 01:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | the 2nd image does remind me of something | 01:27 |
| @rizen | what jt would look like if he were dutch: http://www.bownds.net/uploads/K-/K4/K-K4NLygFyXYXeTJNUru3Q/PICT1224.JPG | 01:29 |
| @preaction | rizen: so I have this fix for the EMS / gama problem. What should I do with existing shopping carts / sessions that will create problems (since they don't have matching entries in the new table)? should i just delete them? expire the session perhaps? or just leave a note in the gotchas? | 01:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh man | 01:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | i really need wooden shoes now | 01:30 |
| @vayde | dear sweet god! | 01:30 |
| @rizen | leave a note in the gotchas | 01:30 |
| @preaction | k | 01:30 |
| @rizen | and write some sort of an sql report that we can give to gama | 01:30 |
| @rizen | so they can sort out the mess | 01:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | ewww | 01:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | never new ryan could be so gross | 01:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://jt.plainblack.com/uploads/R3/yz/R3yzI23c8d_3a9gGj9Msmg/ryan_kristi.jpg | 01:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | anyway | 01:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | time for those sweet dreams | 01:37 |
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| -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has left #webgui [] | 01:50 | |
| @preaction | rizen: should i go ahead and install the fix for gama? or will they have to wait for 7.3.15? there's an upgrade script, so i'd think wait, but the upgrade script will still work if it just happens to be run multiple times (create table if not exists) | 02:22 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat054.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] | 02:23 | |
| @rizen | if it will still work | 02:25 |
| @rizen | then install it now | 02:25 |
| @preaction | k | 02:25 |
| @rizen | be sure to backup their database before installing | 02:25 |
| @preaction | will do | 02:25 |
| SDuensin | Muhahahaha - got WebGUI 7.3.14 running on my host. So easy! | 03:49 |
| SDuensin | Used the RHLE4 WRE. My host is running CentOS4. Works like a champ. | 03:54 |
| @preaction | woohoo! | 04:04 |
| @preaction | i'm starting to understand the Event Management System. and i feel dirty | 04:06 |
| SDuensin | hehehe | 04:07 |
| * SDuensin feels guilty for not hosting with PB. | 04:07 | |
| @preaction | why? it's good to get more spread for webgui | 04:08 |
| @preaction | of course, why CentOS? why not ubuntu or debian? | 04:08 |
| SDuensin | That's what my host uses. I have a "virtual private server". Full root access to do whatever I want. $60 a month. Not bad at all. | 04:09 |
| @preaction | not bad indeed | 04:09 |
| SDuensin | Think it's safe to move a MySQL database by copying the files instead of doing a dump/reload? | 04:11 |
| @preaction | no | 04:11 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 04:12 |
| @preaction | unless the server is shut down | 04:12 |
| @preaction | then ... good luck | 04:12 |
| SDuensin | That was my gut feeling. | 04:12 |
| * SDuensin has to move a mess of WebGUI sites to the new host. | 04:12 | |
| @preaction | make a remote login to one of the mysql servers, then it's as simple as: | 04:12 |
| @preaction | mysqldump -hhost1 <db1> | mysql -hhost2 <db2> | 04:13 |
| SDuensin | Yea. I used to do that to back up databases on a point of sale system I wrote. | 04:13 |
| @preaction | and then: scp -r host1:/data/domains host2:/data | 04:13 |
| @preaction | shell programming is fun | 04:14 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 04:14 |
| @rizen | you should feel dirty for touching the ems, but not for understanding it | 04:14 |
| @vayde | So, no problems with wG on a virtual private server? | 04:31 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 04:33 | |
| PedersenMJ | hey all | 04:33 |
| @vayde | rizen, does a 'virtual private server' entail any special conditions for wG? | 04:35 |
| SDuensin | Nope, vayde. I simply turned off the existing Apache and loaded the WRE. | 04:35 |
| -!- sstanvir [n=Tanvir@s208148.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #webgui | 04:35 | |
| @vayde | cool. I had my old ISP asking for details about it. | 04:35 |
| @rizen | nope. no special conditions | 04:36 |
| @rizen | but you'll need a hell of a lot of ram in the physical server | 04:36 |
| @rizen | because each VPS will need at least 512 to make webgui run | 04:36 |
| @rizen | and it better be a multiprocessor box as well | 04:36 |
| SDuensin | It is. :-) | 04:37 |
| SDuensin | Could have more RAM, but I can get more later: http://www.liquidweb.com/shared/plan4.htm | 04:37 |
| sstanvir | hello | 04:39 |
| sstanvir | I need some help | 04:39 |
| @rizen | very cool sd | 04:39 |
| @rizen | we'd like to offer vps, but it's just not worth it financially to us. you have to sell a lot of them to make it worth while | 04:40 |
| @rizen | plus we can't offer it cheap enough | 04:40 |
| @rizen | what sort of help sstanvir? | 04:40 |
| SDuensin | Yea. Like I said, I feel bad for not using PB, but I can't beat that price. (And I can't afford PB.) | 04:40 |
| sstanvir | thnx for reply | 04:40 |
| @vayde | I know a guy locally that will do it for $25/month. Not sure what the hardware or details are though | 04:41 |
| sstanvir | i posted the details here+ | 04:41 |
| sstanvir | http://www.plainblack.com/install/upgrade_help/fresh-installation-of-webgui-7.3.13?layout=nested#idlOK_myX1AqKV_SeSmHWhZw | 04:41 |
| sstanvir | and here + | 04:41 |
| sstanvir | http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/cant-locate-object-method-server/2/re-cant-locate-object-method-server | 04:41 |
| sstanvir | (the last message) | 04:41 |
| sstanvir | i guess both relates to same problem.. may be due to perl installation ... | 04:42 |
| PedersenMJ | sstanvir: Hang on, I run Debian unstable/testing at home, and have it working. That's a missing package. Lemme get the list. | 04:43 |
| PedersenMJ | gooeybot pastebin | 04:44 |
| sstanvir | ok | 04:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Dang, need a pastebin site, and can never remember where they are. | 04:44 |
| PedersenMJ | perlbot tell me about pastebin | 04:44 |
| sstanvir | (FYI: i am installing in a CentOS) | 04:44 |
| @rizen | perlbot paste? | 04:45 |
| perlbot | Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. | 04:45 |
| SDuensin | I just installed WebGUI on CentOS 4 using the RHLE4 WRE. Worked like a champ. | 04:45 |
| sstanvir | but I am installing from the source.. and I have to install from the source | 04:45 |
| PedersenMJ | http://sial.org/pbot/24040 | 04:45 |
| @rizen | what are the results of the following commands: | 04:46 |
| @rizen | which perl | 04:46 |
| @rizen | perl -v | 04:46 |
| SDuensin | You have to? Why? | 04:46 |
| sstanvir | which perl -? /usr/local/bin/perl | 04:46 |
| sstanvir | perl -v - > This is perl, v5.8.8 built for i686-linux .... | 04:47 |
| sstanvir | SDuensin is asking the reason for installing from source? well.. actually I am preparing a development server for a project | 04:48 |
| sstanvir | and most vital reason is..it's the order from the management to install from the source :( | 04:48 |
| SDuensin | Oh yea. Very familiar with that reason. | 04:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Hmmm... Couldn't you do that by downloading the WRE source file, and compile that? | 04:49 |
| sstanvir | actually I can't argue with that.. there are lots of policies.. or reasons | 04:50 |
| sstanvir | and obviously there is some reason to release webgui source.. right ? | 04:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Wait, I didn't read *your* part of the post, sstanvir: Your problem is more basic than that. Unless you *are* running www.domain.com | 04:50 |
| PedersenMJ | spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - ADMIN: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site www.domain.com.conf | 04:51 |
| sstanvir | ok..please read the post. if u have some time | 04:51 |
| PedersenMJ | I did. I think. | 04:51 |
| sstanvir | ok | 04:51 |
| sstanvir | as per my knowledge I installed all the modules | 04:52 |
| sstanvir | but perl preloade.perl says.. can't find Apache2::ServerUtil-> server | 04:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Where did you install WebGUI to? /data/WebGUI ? | 04:52 |
| sstanvir | right | 04:52 |
| PedersenMJ | ls /data/WebGUI/etc/*.conf | 04:53 |
| sstanvir | well: + | 04:53 |
| sstanvir | log.conf spectre.conf www.domain.com.conf | 04:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay: Are you the webhost for domain.com ? | 04:54 |
| sstanvir | you mean DNS ? | 04:55 |
| PedersenMJ | No, I mean: Are you running the computer that will serve the pages if I point my browser to http://www.domain.com/ | 04:55 |
| sstanvir | we are just using a name for development.. moreover it's machine that doesn't even have a real IP | 04:56 |
| PedersenMJ | That's fine. But, unless I'm mistaken (and about to get a smackdown for it) spectre (a very critical piece of webgui) must be able to connect to what it *thinks* is a real domain. | 04:57 |
| @preaction | you can use /etc/hosts to point spectre in the right direction | 04:57 |
| @preaction | but don't use "domain.com", use "example.com", which is actually set aside by the ICANN for use in things like this | 04:57 |
| @preaction | or just use "localhost" | 04:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Yes, perfect suggestion. I was thinking I was going to need to find a good dns tutorial :) | 04:57 |
| sstanvir | actually instead of domain we used some name [domain].com | 04:58 |
| @preaction | mais oui | 04:59 |
| sstanvir | i also did the installation of webgui before with webgui7... some version.. | 04:59 |
| sstanvir | that time there was no such problem | 04:59 |
| sstanvir | so.. what r u suggesting.. | 04:59 |
| sstanvir | i have to have the same name in /etc/host as the www.domain.com.conf _ | 05:00 |
| sstanvir | ? | 05:00 |
| PedersenMJ | Spectre is relatively new. I don't know which version started requiring it, but it was in the 7.x series. I think it was 7.2. | 05:00 |
| @preaction | your server has to know what it is, right? | 05:00 |
| @preaction | 6.99 started spectre | 05:00 |
| @preaction | which was the beta for 7.0 | 05:00 |
| sstanvir | (i installed 7.3.5 or 7.3.6 i guess before) | 05:01 |
| PedersenMJ | 7.3.5 is a version that I *know* required spectre in order to operate properly. | 05:01 |
| sstanvir | i know.. because I read about spectre and prepared some documents for office internal use on the configuration issues | 05:02 |
| sstanvir | i found there are two different directory structure for perl in the server: | 05:04 |
| sstanvir | one is in /usr/local/lib/perl5 | 05:04 |
| @rizen | yeah, if you're using perl out of /usr/local | 05:04 |
| PedersenMJ | BTW, sstanvir: I just ran "perl preload.perl" from the command line, and got the same issue (unable to locate method server), even though WebGUI runs fine. | 05:04 |
| @rizen | then you also have one in /usr/bin | 05:04 |
| sstanvir | other is /usr/lib/perl5 | 05:05 |
| @rizen | are you using the apache that came with centos? | 05:05 |
| sstanvir | i installed separately ..2.0.59 | 05:05 |
| @rizen | and you told that new apache specifically where your new perl is? | 05:05 |
| sstanvir | yes..u mean in httpd.conf? | 05:05 |
| @rizen | no..i mean at compile time | 05:05 |
| @rizen | when you compiled modperl | 05:06 |
| @rizen | you had to tell it which perl to use | 05:06 |
| @rizen | if you didn't do that, then it's probably using the /usr/bin version | 05:06 |
| @rizen | rather than /usr/local | 05:06 |
| sstanvir | i did one thing.. i linked the /usr/bin/perl to /usr/local/bin/perl | 05:06 |
| @rizen | in addition, since you compiled your own apache, you have to download and install libapreq2 from the apache site | 05:06 |
| @rizen | and compile that manually | 05:06 |
| sstanvir | yes.. i did that too | 05:06 |
| @rizen | don't know what to tell you then. sounds like you did everything right | 05:07 |
| PedersenMJ | sst: What do you you linked /usr/bin/perl to /usr/local/bin/perl? | 05:07 |
| sstanvir | sorry PedersenMJ...can u pls repeat the que | 05:08 |
| @rizen | does "management" ever acutally log in to the server? if not, just use the WRE. wre-0.7.2-rhel4 was compiled on CentOS 4 | 05:08 |
| @rizen | you'll save yourself piles and piles of headache | 05:08 |
| PedersenMJ | sst: What do you mean when you say you "linked the /usr/bin/perl to /usr/local/bin/perl" ? | 05:09 |
| sstanvir | thnx rizen.. but my team leader is strict to install from the source | 05:09 |
| sstanvir | i mean.. there was one /usr/bin/perl.. i guess from some previous installation | 05:09 |
| sstanvir | after I install perl-5.8.8 , i found /usr/local/bin/perl | 05:09 |
| @rizen | and going back to the reason that we release as source...it's not so "management" can say install from source. it's so people that don't use the OS's we compile for can build for their own distro | 05:09 |
| sstanvir | understood rizen | 05:10 |
| PedersenMJ | So, sst: What did you do to make this link happen? | 05:10 |
| sstanvir | and pedersen.. to make sure that when i execute perl | 05:10 |
| sstanvir | it invokes the latest installation.. i linked the old binary to the new one | 05:10 |
| @rizen | here's an idea if you're absolutely unwilling/unable to use the WRE...what you could do is download the WRE source tarball, and look at build.sh that comes with it | 05:10 |
| @rizen | that will give you step by step instructions on the commands you need to use to compile successfully | 05:11 |
| PedersenMJ | What command(s) did you use to link the old binary to the new one? | 05:11 |
| sstanvir | ln -s | 05:11 |
| sstanvir | now /usr/bin/ shows : perl -> /usr/local/bin/perl | 05:12 |
| @rizen | hey peeps...the first new book is out | 05:12 |
| @rizen | http://www.lulu.com/content/779723 | 05:12 |
| SDuensin | Books!? | 05:12 |
| @rizen | and the b/w edition http://www.lulu.com/content/780007 | 05:12 |
| SDuensin | BOOKS! | 05:12 |
| SDuensin | WHOO! | 05:12 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, so instead of running "ln -s" you ran "ln -s /usr/local/bin/perl /usr/bin/perl". That's what I was trying to ascertain. | 05:12 |
| sstanvir | yeah | 05:13 |
| sstanvir | comeon.. i am not much of an expert.. but i am not that stupid ;) | 05:13 |
| PedersenMJ | Ooof. $100 is a tough price for me to pay right now. But I would love to get it. | 05:14 |
| PedersenMJ | sst: You could have done a number of different things when you say that you linked the two. I wanted to know which of the items on the list you had done, so I could provide ideas on where to look next to resolve any problems. | 05:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Even saying you had done "ln -s" *still* left open quite a few possibilities, ranging from the simple ln command above, to a backwards version of it, to having written a script that would loop over everything under /usr/local, looking for perl files, and symlinking them back into the main /usr/lib/perl area to make sure you didn't accidentally use the one from /usr/local. | 05:19 |
| sstanvir | hmm | 05:21 |
| sstanvir | what if i just remove the /usr/bin/perl | 05:21 |
| @preaction | sstanvir: probably a Very Bad Idea (tm) | 05:22 |
| PedersenMJ | A very real possibility for your issues right now is that your compilation of mod_perl for Apache picked up the include files under /usr/include, instead of the ones from /usr/local (assuming that they are there). Now, you run perl from /usr/local, and things look good there, but Apache (and mod_perl) don't see the same version you do, because they're not running the same code. | 05:22 |
| sstanvir | i c | 05:23 |
| sstanvir | yeah.. that could happen | 05:23 |
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| PedersenMJ | So, go with what rizen suggested: Download the WRE, follow the steps in build.sh. After that, make sure that your machine sees the hostname you expect Spectre to see, and thinks that that hostname points to itself (for instance, have "127.0.0.1 www.domain.com" in /etc/hosts | 05:25 |
| sstanvir | considering the possibility that u mentioned about apache and mod_perl | 05:26 |
| sstanvir | what if I compile those again ? | 05:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, wre contains Apache, mod_perl, and everything else. If you follow the full set of steps in build.sh, you'll be rebuilding them anyway. | 05:27 |
| sstanvir | understood | 05:28 |
| sstanvir | but I thought as of now ..just to try compiling apache.. mod_perl .. | 05:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Go for it. Worst thing that could happen is that you accidentally do rm -rf / and have to rebuild the server :) | 05:30 |
| sstanvir | :) | 05:30 |
| sstanvir | btw.. when I installed apache2, | 05:31 |
| sstanvir | i did this: ./configure --with-z=/usr/local/lib | 05:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Since I don't know apache2 compile time options off the top of my head, I'll have to go with "Cool. Glad for you. Hope it helped." | 05:33 |
| sstanvir | :) | 05:33 |
| sstanvir | oh man... | 05:33 |
| sstanvir | rizen told me one thing.. when to install mod_perl , during compile time i have to specify which perl to use | 05:33 |
| sstanvir | how to do that? | 05:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Probably has to do with some of those apache2 compile time options that I've not memorized, but which would be listed/used in build.sh to ensure that the correct perl is used for the WRE. | 05:34 |
| sstanvir | okey :( | 05:35 |
| sstanvir | the world is leading me to WRE.. but the team leader is against the world | 05:35 |
| SDuensin | I know the feeling, sstanvir. | 05:36 |
| * SDuensin quit the job he had that was like that. | 05:36 | |
| PedersenMJ | No, the world is leading you to the absolute ultimate answer for your questions: How to build from source. Since WRE does it, and does it automatically, there's code that automates the process. And that means you can read the code and duplicate the results. | 05:37 |
| @preaction | specifically: wre/sbin/build.sh | 05:37 |
| @preaction | sstanvir: if you insist on installing mod_perl from cpan, make sure you use the right Perl instance | 05:38 |
| sstanvir | i downloaded the mod_perl-2.0.3 | 05:38 |
| @preaction | why not just use cpan? | 05:39 |
| sstanvir | well.. that can work as well | 05:39 |
| sstanvir | but how to make sure to use the right perl instance | 05:40 |
| @preaction | it will install it into the Perl that you're using cpan with | 05:40 |
| sstanvir | i have /usr/bin/cpan and /usr/local/bin/cpan | 05:41 |
| sstanvir | if i invoke perl -MCPAN -e shell | 05:42 |
| sstanvir | it should use the right one? | 05:42 |
| @preaction | depends on the answer to `which perl` | 05:43 |
| @preaction | which one is the Right one? | 05:43 |
| sstanvir | which perl is /usr/local/bin/perl | 05:43 |
| sstanvir | this is the right one | 05:43 |
| @preaction | so "perl" will run "/usr/local/bin/perl", and "cpan" will probably run /usr/local/bin/cpan (you can verify with 'which cpan') | 05:44 |
| @preaction | cpan for that perl will install modules for that perl | 05:44 |
| sstanvir | yes | 05:45 |
| sstanvir | mod_perl is in Bundle::Apache2 right? do u know the specific name of the module | 05:46 |
| @preaction | do a search for Bundle::Apache2 | 05:50 |
| @preaction | or just Apache2 | 05:50 |
| sstanvir | ok | 05:52 |
| sstanvir | anyway.. thanks a lot for your help and time preaction, PedersenMJ, rizen, SDuensin.... | 05:53 |
| sstanvir | you guys are really nice.. | 05:53 |
| sstanvir | so.. I will continue the battle.. and get back to u later with results.. | 05:54 |
| sstanvir | wish me luck | 05:54 |
| sstanvir | bfn | 05:54 |
| @rizen | good luck | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | lots of luck to you. | 05:55 |
| @rizen | is there anything better than warm bread right out of the oven | 05:57 |
| @rizen | drizzled with a little melty butter | 05:57 |
| @rizen | methinks not | 05:57 |
| @rizen | just made a loaf of bread | 05:57 |
| @rizen | so good | 05:58 |
| SDuensin | Aaahhaahhhhh....fresh bread! | 05:58 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, maybe add some small amounts of honey to the butter. Not necessary, but can make a nice touch. | 05:58 |
| PedersenMJ | Fresh bread is the best, though, butter or no :) | 05:59 |
| @rizen | pedersenmj...the b/w version is only $75 | 05:59 |
| @rizen | and the book is almost 400 pages | 05:59 |
| @rizen | lots of stuff in there | 05:59 |
| @rizen | hmmm...will have to try the honey | 05:59 |
| @rizen | haven't tried that one | 05:59 |
| SDuensin | I'll need to make a bit more hosting money and then pick that book up. | 05:59 |
| @rizen | not that i'm asking you to buy the book | 05:59 |
| PedersenMJ | I know. $75 comes into range for me. And *believe* me, I don't doubt the value. Just more than I can do at this point. Although... I've got some cash coming my way soon ... ;) | 06:00 |
| @rizen | indeed | 06:00 |
| @rizen | if you prefer i can take it out of the money i'm sending you | 06:00 |
| @rizen | and send you the book | 06:00 |
| * SDuensin wants to support PB and wG. | 06:00 | |
| PedersenMJ | What the hell. Yeah, I like that idea. | 06:01 |
| @rizen | ok, which version would you like? | 06:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Judgment call: Does the color add value to the contents? Or is the book totally fine without it? | 06:02 |
| PedersenMJ | And: Does it affect how much plainblack gets? | 06:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Better answer: Screw it, go for the color. Might as well, eh? | 06:03 |
| @rizen | plain black makes far more on the b/w version | 06:03 |
| @rizen | but the color one is cooler | 06:03 |
| @rizen | cuz the screenshots are more legible in color | 06:04 |
| PedersenMJ | Damn, now I'm torn between the two. Legibility matters, but so does supporting pb. | 06:05 |
| PedersenMJ | I might be showing this to other people. Color will make them happier with the product. Color it should be. | 06:06 |
| @rizen | don't worry about supporting us | 06:07 |
| @rizen | go with the one you want | 06:07 |
| @rizen | color it is | 06:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool. Those two books should be a *very* lovely jump off point for me. I've got just enough knowledge to go in and muck about, and maybe get what I want. Having more information is always a good thing. | 06:09 |
| @rizen | two books? | 06:10 |
| PedersenMJ | WebGUI Primer as well. | 06:11 |
| @rizen | oh right | 06:11 |
| @rizen | from the contest | 06:11 |
| @rizen | you'll probably just end up giving the primer away | 06:12 |
| PedersenMJ | Exactly. Enough reading material to keep me occupied for a while. | 06:12 |
| PedersenMJ | Eventually, yeah. But I do intend to at least leaf through it first. And see afterwards who it should go to. | 06:12 |
| @rizen | everything covered in the primer is also covered in the cm guide...just in a hell of a lot more detail | 06:12 |
| @rizen | look at it this way | 06:12 |
| @rizen | the books that we are building now (starting with the CM guide) | 06:12 |
| @rizen | are for the webgui professionals, like yourself | 06:13 |
| @rizen | and the primers are the cheap books that can be handed out to the staff as a reference guide | 06:13 |
| @rizen | the primer is a good book | 06:13 |
| @rizen | but if you have the cm guide..you don't need the primer | 06:13 |
| @rizen | i'll send it to you anyway | 06:13 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, okay. primer is way to hook somebody, basically. | 06:14 |
| PedersenMJ | I think I know some people to slip that too, then, to get them started :) | 06:14 |
| @rizen | cool | 06:14 |
| @rizen | even though we just are now releasing the CM guide, we're already planning the second edition of it | 06:15 |
| @rizen | it won't be out for 6 months to a year | 06:15 |
| SDuensin | BOOKS! We like books. | 06:15 |
| @rizen | but it's going to be another 100 page or so of content | 06:15 |
| @rizen | so much in fact, that we're going to have to increase the format to a new bigger sized book | 06:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Sweet :) | 06:16 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm definitely going to be getting the other guides, too. | 06:16 |
| @rizen | i had hoped the other two we're working on would be out this month | 06:17 |
| @rizen | but we've been so busy with everything, and so short staffed, that they aren't done yet | 06:17 |
| @rizen | but when all 3 are finished it will be between 1000 and 1200 pages of documentation | 06:18 |
| SDuensin | Each a hundred bucks? | 06:18 |
| @rizen | i don't think people will complain that we don't have enough documentation anymore | 06:18 |
| @rizen | =) | 06:18 |
| @rizen | 100 for color | 06:18 |
| @rizen | and 75 for b/w | 06:18 |
| SDuensin | Box set discount? :-) | 06:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Is there where I'm supposed to express outrage that you haven't finished these books on my personal timetable? Or should I just nicely say that I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of them as soon as they come out? :) | 06:19 |
| @rizen | probably | 06:19 |
| @rizen | just the cost of printing the color ones is 65 per book | 06:19 |
| SDuensin | Ouch. | 06:19 |
| @rizen | and that doesn't count for all the time we put in to writing them | 06:19 |
| @rizen | that's why we're charging so much | 06:19 |
| @rizen | if we could offer them for 50 a piece we would | 06:19 |
| SDuensin | Believe me, WebGUI is worth the cash. I just can't swing it yet. When I can, I'll be buying everything you guys offer. :-) | 06:20 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm not the only one who feels that way. It's a *sweet* system, it really is. | 06:20 |
| @rizen | i appreciate the support guys | 06:20 |
| @rizen | thanks | 06:20 |
| SDuensin | You deserve it. WebGUI kicks ass. | 06:21 |
| SDuensin | And to think that I found the 5.x release completely by accident via Google. :-) | 06:21 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm actually considering dropping my preference for Request Tracker, and using WG's system. | 06:21 |
| +Radix_ | Cool work on the book - just checked out the lulu links then :) | 06:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Dunno if I'm ready for that just yet, but it might be right for me. | 06:21 |
| SDuensin | I'm dropping everything I can for wG. :-) | 06:21 |
| SDuensin | Got two sites running on my host using it tonight! Went smooth as snot. I was really pleased. | 06:22 |
| @rizen | yeah, we dropped RT for webgui a long time ago | 06:22 |
| @rizen | and now that it has the email integration it's pretty sweet | 06:22 |
| SDuensin | Third site is uploading now. :-) | 06:22 |
| @rizen | nice SD | 06:22 |
| PedersenMJ | The email integration is probably my killer feature. | 06:23 |
| SDuensin | This third site unpacks to like 1.5 gig. Going to be awhile before it's up there. <G> | 06:23 |
| @rizen | after we get through this "healing" phase, i plan on writing an actual TroubleTicket system into webgui | 06:23 |
| @rizen | probably won't be until either late 2007 or early 2008 though | 06:23 |
| SDuensin | Healing? | 06:24 |
| @rizen | bug fixing, documentation, new wre, etc | 06:24 |
| @rizen | search plainblack.com for "new years resolution" | 06:24 |
| SDuensin | Ah yes. :-) | 06:24 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 06:25 |
| SDuensin | Well, I'm headed to bed. I'll talk to you all again tomorrow! | 06:25 |
| PedersenMJ | g'night SDuensin ! | 06:25 |
| @rizen | me too | 06:28 |
| @rizen | later | 06:28 |
| PedersenMJ | later rizen | 06:29 |
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| PedersenMJ | heya perlDreamer | 06:31 |
| PedersenMJ | how goes? | 06:31 |
| +perlDreamer | It is well | 06:32 |
| @preaction | wonder if that troubleticket thing is going to be integrated with the Project Manager (i hope hope hope. Trac rules) | 06:32 |
| +perlDreamer | troubleticket thing? | 06:32 |
| @preaction | JT: after we get through this "healing" phase, i plan on writing an actual TroubleTicket system into webgui | 06:32 |
| @preaction | i wonder if the healing phase includes Perl::Critic and fixing inheritance of the container assets and their constituents | 06:33 |
| +perlDreamer | healing phase? | 06:40 |
| @preaction | bug fixing, more docs, new wre | 06:41 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 06:41 |
| +perlDreamer | at this rate, the healing will take a long time | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't suppose we're planning another bug-a-thon anytime, are we? | 06:43 |
| @preaction | i dunno. next friday vayde's coming down to madison and we're having a get-together. dunno the itinerary yet | 06:45 |
| @preaction | it's been crazy around here. the alumni launch, short-staffed, etc... | 06:45 |
| +perlDreamer | I know | 06:45 |
| +perlDreamer | don't forget training new staff, publishing a book, webgui.org site design | 06:46 |
| +perlDreamer | WUC conference details | 06:47 |
| +perlDreamer | bread baking | 06:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Damn... I need to find a place that does fresh bread on my way into work tomorrow. The fresher, the better. Now I've got an appetite. | 06:48 |
| +perlDreamer | Where do you live? | 06:48 |
| +perlDreamer | Google Maps is your friend, PedersenMJ | 06:48 |
| PedersenMJ | The Garbage State. And TomTom is a better friend :) | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | I've never tried. I'll have to give it a shot | 06:49 |
| PedersenMJ | I've got it on a Treo 650. Now, their installation process sucks the sweat off a dead donkey's balls. It's less friendly than YggDrasil Linux with bad floppies. But the software, once installed, is fantastic. | 06:51 |
| +perlDreamer | Hey, I think that model of Treo has one of our chips in it. You have chosen wisely. | 06:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Personally, I wanted to stick with the Tungsten T5. Nice PDA. But, getting Navigator 6 on PalmOS required Treo 650. Nothing else supported or working. | 06:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Having said that, I'll admit the 650 is pretty nice. Sometimes I wish I had separate devices, though, so that I could let the navigator run when a phone call comes in, but that's my only real complaint. | 06:53 |
| +perlDreamer | The battery runtime estimation should be very, very good. | 06:53 |
| +perlDreamer | Outside of that, you're on your own. | 06:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, it is pretty good. And the battery runtime is phenomenal. Actually better than the T5. | 06:55 |
| +perlDreamer | That's really a function of the processor and the peripherals. | 06:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, it does a good job. And it's pretty rare that I wish for two separate devices anymore. | 06:59 |
| +Radix_ | I love my o2 atom :) | 07:01 |
| PedersenMJ | There are only two things I don't like about the Treo: 1) Inability to run two programs at once. So the navigator has to exit before I can take a call. 2) Constantly having to defrag memory because of the apps I use. | 07:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Wait, one other: lack of ability to do voice dialing from bluetooth earpiece. | 07:06 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: given two arbitrary DateTime objects, do you know how to calculate the difference between them in time in seconds? | 07:48 |
| PedersenMJ | http://search.cpan.org/dist/DateTime-Format-Epoch/ <-convert to seconds in the epoch with this? | 07:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I've already coded around it, but I'll remember that for next time. | 07:57 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, PedersenMJ | 07:57 |
| PedersenMJ | You're welcome. I know I've done it before, and not with that, but damned if I can remember how right now. | 07:58 |
| @rizen | i'm not really here, but i had to share this: http://defragit.blogspot.com/2007/03/announcing-metadot-7.html | 08:00 |
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| @rizen | holy crap | 08:00 |
| @rizen | preaction: http://defragit.blogspot.com/2007/03/announcing-metadot-7.html | 08:01 |
| @rizen | anyway...like i said, not really here | 08:01 |
| @rizen | sleep now | 08:01 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, go eat your bread! | 08:01 |
| +perlDreamer | metadot moved to ruby on rails? | 08:01 |
| +perlDreamer | whoa | 08:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | does that make wG the last known CMS written in Perl? | 08:04 |
| +perlDreamer | There's websiteinabox (from googlecode) written in Catalyst, but it's in early alpha/dev-only phase. | 08:06 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 15:40 |
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| +MrHairgrease | rizen | 16:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | do you know how i can figure out what kind of protocol is being used for the connection of a page request | 16:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | http vs. https | 16:35 |
| @rizen | if you're using the WRE it's not possible, at least in any way that I'm aware of | 16:38 |
| @rizen | i've been trying to figure that out forever | 16:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'm asking b/c you wanted to have a match option for http(s) in the redirect asset | 16:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | the redirect rules | 16:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | but if have have no way to figure that out | 16:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | i cannot make the distinction | 16:40 |
| @rizen | i know | 16:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | maybe some env var may expose ssl usage? | 16:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | dunno how they vary from ssl implementation to implementation | 16:42 |
| @rizen | normally you'd do this: | 16:43 |
| @rizen | if ($self->session->env->get("HTTPS") eq "on") { | 16:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh ok | 16:43 |
| @rizen | so go ahead and do that in your code | 16:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | but b/c of modproxy that doesn't work | 16:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | ? | 16:43 |
| @rizen | it will work for people not using wre | 16:43 |
| @rizen | yeah, modproxy fucks it up | 16:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | ic | 16:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | well | 16:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | were not at 7.4 yet | 16:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | so i'll try to figure something out | 16:44 |
| @rizen | i know a way around it with the wre as well, but i can't ask people to do it | 16:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | the snippet you gave already helps | 16:44 |
| @rizen | if you set up a seperate vhost on your modperl instance on a new port, and set an environment variable called HTTPS to on | 16:45 |
| @rizen | and then have modproxy redirect all ssl requests to that one | 16:45 |
| @rizen | it is a work around for the problem | 16:45 |
| @rizen | but what a fuck around operation | 16:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 16:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's not quite neat=) | 16:46 |
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| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 17:53 | |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ | 17:53 | |
| +MrHairgrease | does anybody know what wrong when during upgrading 6.99.0-7.1.3 errors with | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | READY TO BEGIN UPGRADES | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | Cannot open config file: at ../../lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 348. | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | Can't locate object method "http" via package "../.." at ../../lib/WebGUI/Session.pm line 370. | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | Processing upgrade executable failed! | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | I've had this error before and solved it | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | bu i cannot remember whati did | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | rizen | 18:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | when's the wuc? | 18:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | it says september on the hotel info on the site | 18:11 |
| @vayde | I don't know if rizen is really here. He's 'off' today, but I don't know how off 'off' is | 18:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | he responded to me a few hours ago | 18:13 |
| @vayde | dunno. I just got a reminder email that he's 'out' figured I'd let you know | 18:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 18:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | thanks | 18:14 |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has left #webgui [] | 18:17 | |
| @vayde | WUC is Oct 17-19th. Deadline for special hotel rates is midnight on Sept 17th, 1 month prior to the beginning of the WUC | 18:27 |
| @vayde | crap, he's gone | 18:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | Are the smoke tests down? | 18:54 |
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| SDuensin | Anybody have an idea of how much the RAM requirement increases for every site you add to a WRE based WebGUI? | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think RAM requirements change that much per site as much as per connection. | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | Basically, RAM for a new site would consist of the config file being translated to Perl data | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | but I'd trust whatever rizen says more than that | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | he's in the business of hosting | 21:46 |
| SDuensin | I'm in the business of running out of RAM. :-) | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | WRE/non-WRE? | 21:47 |
| SDuensin | WRE | 21:48 |
| +perlDreamer | hmmm | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | Wait a minute, this is on your virtual host, right? | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | You could try adjusting the WRE settings for Apache::SizeLimit and see if it helps. | 21:50 |
| SDuensin | Yea. | 21:52 |
| SDuensin | I've not crashed yet, but I'm close to my vhost limit. | 21:52 |
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| -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@58.sub-75-205-237.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] | 23:44 | |
| --- Day changed Sat Apr 07 2007 | ||
| +perlDreamer | --bug | 00:46 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, do you see any problems with Mocking Log::Logger in the tests, all the time? | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | Log::Log4Perl, I mean | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | er, preaction_ | 00:50 |
| @vayde | he must be feeling down today, less than himself | 01:01 |
| +perlDreamer | that would be preaction-, no? | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I bet he's not really there | 01:02 |
| @vayde | I dunno, maybe he's feeling REALLY low | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | good board work today | 01:02 |
| @vayde | Thanks, I haven't really done anything. | 01:02 |
| @vayde | good thing things are slow. | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I think just dialoging with the users help them fix things on their own sometimes | 01:03 |
| @vayde | you have any ideas about the workflow problems one? | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | Let me read the thread | 01:03 |
| @vayde | yeah, at least they know there's someone out there | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | Okay, here's what I see | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | spectre can talk to spectre | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI can't talk to spectre | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | spectre says that it has nothing to do | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | q.e.d, I would say that it is a spectre config problem in the site config file | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | b.t.w, problems like this are why I put up my RFE for spectre status in the Admin panel | 01:05 |
| @vayde | I don't know if I buy that spectre is the problem here | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | it isn't the problem, just the spectre line in the wG.conf file | 01:06 |
| @vayde | his main complaint is he makes a new page, and it don't show up | 01:06 |
| @vayde | He's seeing a spectre error, and is having a problem, hence A must be connected to B. Unless you think they ARE connected | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | well, he says that if he runs the workflow manually (via the Admin Panel run workflow feature) that it works | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | that tells me it is spectre <--> webgui communication | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | so it could be in spectre.conf as well | 01:09 |
| @vayde | I'll ask him to post em both. Can't hurt. | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | Could I get your feedback on this bug? | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/trouble-with-search-users#bwxNi9JGw_ObzSiC7NPrRw | 01:11 |
| @vayde | there isn't a WebGUI.conf, just an original. You mean <insert customer site here>.conf right? | 01:12 |
| @vayde | sure, I'll look | 01:12 |
| +perlDreamer | yes about the WebGUI.conf | 01:12 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm looking for an appropriate response to william's post to the bug thread | 01:13 |
| @vayde | hang on, I'm reading | 01:14 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry, too much virtue #2 | 01:14 |
| @vayde | William's post, you mean about the message suggestion? | 01:16 |
| @vayde | I think it's a great idea | 01:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I like the idea, too but I have two concerns. | 01:16 |
| @vayde | I got bit by that one on the PB site. Blank screen was a bit of a surprise | 01:16 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI is supposed to work this way, so changing it should be an RFE, I think | 01:16 |
| @vayde | Yeah, technically that's not a bug, but a feature that was left out | 01:17 |
| @vayde | It should do something less ambiguous when you go to the page | 01:17 |
| +perlDreamer | The other thing is that the message will appear and disappear as default searches and defined searches are performed, and it may be as confusing as the original behavior. | 01:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm thinking of using standard dodge #5... | 01:18 |
| @vayde | I dunno, depends on how it's phrased | 01:18 |
| +perlDreamer | S.D #5 = "This is a feature. Please submit an RFE. If you disagree, please take it up with JT/rizen" | 01:18 |
| @vayde | If the screen is gonna be blank, insert a message saying 'you have lots of groups/users, I'm not gonna try to display em until you pare down the list with a search" | 01:19 |
| @vayde | You are correct | 01:19 |
| @vayde | I guess It depends on if a leaving out a feature can be called a bug | 01:19 |
| +perlDreamer | exactly, and, in the past anyway, JT is the arbiter of those decisions | 01:20 |
| @vayde | It is kinda scary to pull up a list of users or groups and get only a blank | 01:20 |
| +perlDreamer | I agree. | 01:20 |
| @vayde | Users are stupid, and panicking one just leads to even dumber behaviour | 01:20 |
| @vayde | My opinion is call the left out feature a bug, and add it | 01:21 |
| @vayde | However, as the FNG and padawan, my opinion don't count for much | 01:21 |
| +perlDreamer | what is FNG? | 01:21 |
| +perlDreamer | fairly new guy? | 01:21 |
| @vayde | fuckin new guy | 01:22 |
| @vayde | I gotta run. Class time | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | see you | 01:27 |
| @vayde | Hmm. I'm skunked again. | 02:47 |
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| bodhi_zazen | !hi | 02:54 |
| @vayde | Ahh, I see it's not just me | 02:55 |
| bodhi_zazen | Any bots in here ? | 02:55 |
| @vayde | perlbot | 02:55 |
| bodhi_zazen | !bot | 02:55 |
| bodhi_zazen | !perl | 02:55 |
| bodhi_zazen | !braindead | 02:55 |
| bodhi_zazen | !knock-knock | 02:56 |
| @vayde | Oh well. I'll get perlDreamer to school me in it again later. He's been very patient | 02:56 |
| bodhi_zazen | http://www.perlbot.org/ | 02:57 |
| @vayde | cool, thanks | 02:58 |
| bodhi_zazen | I think that bot is mute | 02:59 |
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| -!- bodhi_zazen [n=bodhizaz@stpete.helmednet.org] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] | 03:01 | |
| -!- ajmorris_ [n=l337h4x0@220-253-26-236.VIC.netspace.net.au] has left #webgui ["Bye all"] | 03:01 | |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: rizen? | 03:19 |
| perlbot | JT, the creator of WebGUI, aka TMRFE | 03:19 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: help | 03:19 |
| perlbot | (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip) | 03:19 |
| +perlDreamer | wrong syntax | 03:19 |
| +perlDreamer | ahoy, vayde! what happened to class? | 03:20 |
| @vayde | they never came in | 03:20 |
| @vayde | I knew you'd save me on the bot | 03:20 |
| +perlDreamer | I keep forgetting | 03:21 |
| @vayde | I'm pretty new to irc too. | 03:21 |
| +perlDreamer | gooeybot is a better overall bot, but preaction's network keeps dropping | 03:21 |
| @vayde | I'd never used it, and then bodhi_zazen recruited me into the ubuntuforums-beginners team | 03:21 |
| @vayde | the bot over there works differently | 03:21 |
| @vayde | what's the difference between using <name>: and <name>, ? | 03:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think any | 03:22 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot, what time is it? | 03:22 |
| perlbot | Fri Apr 6 17:20:21 2007 Pacific Time | 03:22 |
| @vayde | ahh, well there you go | 03:22 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: what time is it? | 03:22 |
| perlbot | Fri Apr 6 17:20:27 2007 Pacific Time | 03:22 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot- what time is it? | 03:23 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot; what time is it? | 03:23 |
| @vayde | so, any name, followd by : or , yields the highlit message? | 03:23 |
| +perlDreamer | looks like it | 03:23 |
| +perlDreamer | I did a cool testing hack today | 03:24 |
| @vayde | cool. We still need to talk about all your testing mojo | 03:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I outfit all tests with the ability to intercept thing sent to the webgui.log file, to verify logging messages happens correctly | 03:25 |
| @vayde | I may have another class in 10 though | 03:25 |
| +perlDreamer | so if people don't show do you still charge them? | 03:25 |
| @vayde | I'm stuck between wanting to go home early, and hoping customers show up | 03:26 |
| @vayde | with us, you sign up for a number of classes per week, and then show up whenever your schedule/interests allow it | 03:26 |
| @vayde | make up classes you miss too | 03:26 |
| @vayde | It's a nice system. Makes it easy to work around whatever chaos shows up in your life | 03:27 |
| @vayde | unfortunately, it's a bit too nice. It would probably be more effective if people HAD to show up at a certain day or time. | 03:27 |
| +perlDreamer | yes. Kind of leaves you hanging | 03:27 |
| @vayde | In a lot of ways, I'm too nice for my own good. If I was a little meaner, or opportunistic, I'd do better in business | 03:28 |
| @vayde | I'm just not willing to do it though | 03:28 |
| +perlDreamer | morals are important in whatever you do | 03:28 |
| @vayde | And besides, I'm not the student's mother. They can show up or not. We're all big boys | 03:28 |
| @vayde | Tuition is due per the membership agreement whether you show or not. I was here, ready to do my part | 03:28 |
| +perlDreamer | I see, so it's just scheduling hassles, rather than being shorted. | 03:29 |
| @vayde | Yeah, mine were preventing me from eating though. That's too bad | 03:29 |
| @vayde | Not really hassles. | 03:29 |
| @vayde | More like feast or famine | 03:29 |
| @vayde | some classes are big, others tiny | 03:29 |
| @vayde | which is fine. Makes my job interesting sometimes, but I'm the professional | 03:30 |
| @vayde | It's an interesting time balancing between what the student NEEDS, and what they will show up for. | 03:30 |
| @vayde | Traditionally you have disciples. They'll do anything you tell em to | 03:31 |
| @vayde | Nowadays, there aint too many of those around. | 03:31 |
| @vayde | Students on the other hand, will do what you say, to a point. | 03:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Maybe that's what I am, a WebGUI disciple | 03:31 |
| @vayde | but mostly you get customers. Customers are very, very different. Customers only do what THEY want. Regardless of what is best for their education | 03:32 |
| @vayde | My teacher says a disciple is a student with discipline | 03:32 |
| @vayde | You've learned this stuff, and kept at it. You'd count as a disciple. | 03:33 |
| +perlDreamer | It sounds better than volunteer hacker | 03:33 |
| +perlDreamer | hacker disciple | 03:33 |
| @vayde | heh | 03:33 |
| @vayde | I don't know what the time scale is in the hacker world. In martial arts, you'd need a few more years to count as a disciple. | 03:33 |
| @vayde | That | 03:34 |
| @vayde | That's one reason they're rare these days | 03:34 |
| +perlDreamer | In martial arts, how many years to earn the title of disciple? | 03:34 |
| @vayde | personally, I don't like the term. It's religious overtones spook people | 03:34 |
| @vayde | There's no single guide. | 03:35 |
| @vayde | I have one guy who I'd call a disciple. he's been with me for 10 years | 03:35 |
| +perlDreamer | Yeah, I've only got 3 under my belt | 03:36 |
| @vayde | Hey, I don't think wG has been around for 10 | 03:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Only 5 | 03:37 |
| @vayde | It's a little easier to rack up the time when the discipline is 1000+ years old | 03:37 |
| @vayde | hell, perl, and computers in general can't quite compete there | 03:37 |
| +perlDreamer | no, not even close! | 03:39 |
| @vayde | well, looks like I'm skunked again. Can't say that I'm complaining. I'll be back online in a few when I get home. (home's just a couple miles up the road) talk to you in a few. | 03:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'm back, did y'all miss me? | 04:43 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, but my aim is getting better. | 04:47 |
| +perlDreamer | there's always one in every crowd... | 04:48 |
| +perlDreamer | Don't work too hard on hitting me, I spent large chunks of today working on wG's test suite | 04:48 |
| +perlDreamer | Improving test coverage and extending it | 04:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah. Sad thing is, I seem to be in too many of those crowds, being that one. I need to get some time off, free up a few days from crowd-jackass duty. | 04:49 |
| +perlDreamer | Don't be hard on yourself | 04:50 |
| +perlDreamer | If you were really a crowd-jackass, JT would kick you out of the channel and ban your IP | 04:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, it's possible to be an only minorly annoying crowd-jackass. One that tosses in just the right remarks here and there to maintain the title, without going overboard into the offensive. | 04:51 |
| +perlDreamer | You're far from that. | 04:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Damn. Got to work on my abilities, then. That remark just cost me bookings for the next week! | 04:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, then again, I did say I wanted some time off. | 04:52 |
| +perlDreamer | Take the next few days off and take it easy. | 04:53 |
| PedersenMJ | And now, I'm just being stupidly annoying. So, to stop: How much of the test suite did ya manage to get done? | 04:53 |
| +perlDreamer | I upped the coverage on two Session tests to 100% | 04:53 |
| +perlDreamer | and redid the Http test to look at the new caching code that's been in there | 04:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Nice job! Congrats! Wow.... And here I am just trying to find the time to finish a theme. | 04:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I had the day off from $dayJob, so I had lots of time | 04:54 |
| +perlDreamer | my company gives us Good Friday as a holiday | 04:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Nice. Very nice. They hiring? | 04:55 |
| +perlDreamer | Are you an EE with > 5 years of experience? | 04:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope. | 04:56 |
| +perlDreamer | C programmer with assembly coding? | 04:56 |
| PedersenMJ | C programmer: Yes, definitely (once read quadruply indirected pointers in my head). Assembly: I *can* do it, but usually choose not to (which, I know, rules me right out of that category). | 04:57 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, they're primarily looking for hardware level guys | 04:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, I'm definitely not at that level. | 04:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Dunno, really. Serious job satisfaction crisis for me. And, since I know that JT will eventually want to know why I didn't send in a resume to plainblack, it's because I enjoy WG more as a hobby, and would not remain happy for very long as a job. | 04:59 |
| +perlDreamer | WG does make a very nice hobby. | 05:00 |
| PedersenMJ | I think what I'm most tired of, right now, is that I'm basically on call all the time. Our helpdesk guy... I like him, he's a nice guy, but I'm starting to think he's somewhere around the level of weak power user. | 05:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Yesterday, he asked me four times if deleting an Outlook profile on a laptop would delete the email off the Exchange server. | 05:02 |
| PedersenMJ | And I mean he did that within a time span of about 15 minutes. | 05:03 |
| +perlDreamer | oy | 05:03 |
| +perlDreamer | that's no good | 05:03 |
| PedersenMJ | I know. So, I'm just tired. Really tired. And complaining. Should stop that now. Will try. | 05:04 |
| +perlDreamer | g'night, all | 05:52 |
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| PedersenMJ | SD: He's a real card. | 06:33 |
| SDuensin | Eh? | 06:36 |
| PedersenMJ | Types what he should have typed to make something remotely resembling a joke: | 06:37 |
| PedersenMJ | That SD: He's a real card. | 06:37 |
| SDuensin | :-P | 06:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Sorry, am tired. My ability to make funny jokes is tired, too. Rain check? | 06:38 |
| SDuensin | Sure. Why not. <G> | 06:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool. Don't worry, I'll find a decent one to make later. | 06:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Nothing at all like butcher dance, I promise. | 06:40 |
| SDuensin | I don't even wanna know. | 06:41 |
| PedersenMJ | One of the longest, and most horrible, puns I have ever read/heard. My wife walks out of the room if I mention it. I've been threatened with bodily harm at the punchline. I have had one woman scream at the top of her lungs about it. It's great :D | 06:42 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/6174/jokes/butcher-dance.htm | 06:42 |
| * SDuensin tries in vain to not click the link. | 06:42 | |
| SDuensin | DOH! | 06:42 |
| PedersenMJ | Now I *know* you didn't read the whole thing already. | 06:44 |
| SDuensin | No. I will. :-) | 06:45 |
| PedersenMJ | And, just imagine having somebody take the time to add still more detail at all the various junctures, and you'll get a feel for how I tell it. And I love telling it so much :) | 06:46 |
| * SDuensin is reading on the IMDB about Casino Royale. | 06:49 | |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, have heard good things about it. Will watch it someday. | 06:50 |
| SDuensin | Just saw it. Excellent. The end is kind of slow, but I think that's just because the rest of the movie never lets up. | 06:51 |
| SDuensin | The first 10 minutes are worth buying the disc for. Amazing stunt work. | 06:51 |
| +Radix_ | I enjoyed it myself.. much more gritty than the previous bond films. But then it also shows how young he is at that stage of his career. | 06:52 |
| SDuensin | I like Bond films. Even the dumb ones. This was good even compared to "regular" movies. :-) | 06:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Bond films are fun, if for no other reason than high tech gadgetry being used in new and creative ways :) | 06:54 |
| SDuensin | WHOA! I *KNEW* I saw Richard Branson in that film! | 06:55 |
| * SDuensin loves the IMDB trivia. | 06:55 | |
| PedersenMJ | One of the few things that managed to make me LOL: http://www.customerssuck.com/index.php?categoryid=13&p2007_articleid=4 | 07:03 |
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| * vayde groans | 17:48 | |
| @vayde | It's too early to be faced with 5 year olds. | 17:48 |
| @vayde | And violent ones at that | 17:48 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 21:06 |
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| +perlDreamer | vayde, are you ready to learn the way of WebGUI Testing? | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | It is long, and fraught with peril | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | many have tried, few have persevered | 21:34 |
| @vayde | I want to. I can't do it right now. I hafta close up shop and rescue the gf's vehicle from a horrible fate. Will you be around tonight or tomorrow? | 21:44 |
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| +perlDreamer | both, I think | 23:07 |
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| perlDreame1 | grrrr | 23:23 |
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| wgGuest11 | I am trying to evaluate different CSM, however I have had some issues trying to install Webgui on my Windows XP machine | 06:21 |
| wgGuest11 | Is there any help available for this? | 06:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | evening, rizen | 07:11 |
| +perlDreamer | what's shaking? | 07:11 |
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| PedersenMJ | g'd evening | 05:05 |
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| PedersenMJ | Wow... I am *never* building webgui from source ever again! | 06:46 |
| PedersenMJ | I just did the wre for the first time ever. I was an absolute idiot for insisting on building from source. | 06:46 |
| @preaction | wre is easy, no? | 07:36 |
| @preaction | jt's working on ways to make it even easier. but i don't think he'll be able to achieve binary-compatibility between distributions | 07:36 |
| PedersenMJ | Is bedtime for this sad sack. see you all manana! | 07:43 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning. | 15:53 |
| @preaction | morning | 15:54 |
| SDuensin | WebGUI is becoming an obsession. | 15:58 |
| SDuensin | My wife is going to kill me when she finds out what I'm spending screwing with web servers. | 15:58 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 15:58 |
| @preaction | turn it into profit? | 15:59 |
| @preaction | there are always places looking for websites to be made | 15:59 |
| SDuensin | That's the plan. I just completely suck at finding those people. | 16:02 |
| ckotil | thats my dilema too | 16:04 |
| SDuensin | Hey ckotil | 16:05 |
| @preaction | eventually it becomes a matter of giving out your card to people, after of course making some cards | 16:06 |
| @preaction | i believe we had an idea to add a "Services Connection" area to the new webgui.org site to help hook up potential clients to the people who could help them (since plainblack can get too busy to get to certain projects in a timely fashion) | 16:08 |
| @preaction | i hope that happens | 16:08 |
| @preaction | more exposure for webgui = more potential business for plainblack in every case | 16:08 |
| SDuensin | Sounds good to me. | 16:09 |
| * SDuensin has handed out a ton of cards. | 16:09 | |
| SDuensin | Anyone ever hear of anyone converting from Drupal to WebGUI? | 16:10 |
| @preaction | doesn't sound like a simple operation, but i think i've heard someone express interest in doing it | 16:10 |
| SDuensin | Yea, but was that someone me? :-) | 16:12 |
| @preaction | i think it was | 16:12 |
| SDuensin | Well, unfortunately, I haven't helped myself do the conversion yet. :-P | 16:13 |
| @preaction | i imagine you're going to have to start by mapping what can be actually converted from database to database. I just got done writing a large (3000+ line) migration script from a client's custom coldfusion database to webgui custom apps, so it can be done. | 16:16 |
| @preaction | it just isn't very fun | 16:16 |
| @preaction | basically thus: using DBI to grab information, use the WebGUI API to create the appropriate assets | 16:16 |
| SDuensin | That's what I was gonna try and do. Let WebGUI do the writing so I don't screw it up. :-) | 16:22 |
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| @vayde | MrHairgrease, did you ever get the WUC schedule confirmed? It's Oct 17-19, but the hotel reservations need to be made by Sept 17 to get the cheap rate. | 17:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm not sure what you mean. | 17:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | the date of the wuc is already fixed right? | 17:41 |
| @preaction | MrHairgrease: i believe the conference center is already booked and everything | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's what understood too | 17:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | so i don't quite understand what vayde's trying to ask me | 17:55 |
| @preaction | but then again, i'm not in charge of that, and it's better that i only worry about what i need to (which already is plenty) | 17:56 |
| @vayde | Sorry, last week you asked a question that I interpreted to be confusion over the date of the WUC | 17:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | did I? | 17:56 |
| @vayde | there was a line on the hotel information page that sayd 'September 17' | 17:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh yeah | 17:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | joeri saw that i guess | 17:56 |
| @vayde | That's the deadline for cheap registration | 17:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | ah i see | 17:57 |
| @vayde | I have sinced messed with it in the attempt to make it clearer | 17:57 |
| @preaction | o/t question: what would be a good language to learn that could get me through central europe? britain, france, bavaria, that area? | 17:57 |
| @preaction | french? german? | 17:57 |
| @vayde | $$$ | 17:57 |
| @vayde | that always helps, no matter where | 17:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | english | 17:57 |
| @preaction | seriously? | 17:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | or you could learn german and french | 17:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | assuming you already speak english | 17:58 |
| @vayde | naw, I think he should learn english | 17:58 |
| @vayde | do him good | 17:58 |
| @preaction | but only knowing english would get me by? | 17:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | not everywhere | 17:58 |
| @preaction | even in, say, non-tourtisty areas? | 17:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | it depends | 17:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | my experience in france is that a lot of people there don't speak much english | 17:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | mostly elder people | 17:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | but then again | 17:59 |
| @vayde | I had no trouble in Italy with english and what little Spanish I remembered from Jr. High school | 17:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | frensh people don't speak german | 17:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | and vice versa | 17:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | so it depends where you wana go | 17:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | i managed to go to italy using english | 18:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | but also a lot of hand symbols | 18:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you're in tourist areas your good with english | 18:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | but if you go hiking | 18:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | or something like that | 18:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | and pass trough these tiny villages | 18:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | it can be difficult to communicate | 18:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | germans are pretty good at englishg | 18:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | and so are swiss and ausrian people | 18:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | for france and italy | 18:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | it really depends who you talk to | 18:02 |
| @preaction | i've got a good base in french, so hopefully a few months of drilling might improve that to near-tourist levels | 18:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you have a base you're good | 18:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | you're plaaning you hollidays in eurotrashland then? | 18:03 |
| @preaction | just planning my world trips | 18:03 |
| @preaction | and the languages i'll need to learn for it | 18:03 |
| @preaction | hindi, japanese, and french+german | 18:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 18:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | man | 18:04 |
| @preaction | egyptian too | 18:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | i cannot imagine learning all that | 18:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | 'm bad at languages | 18:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | and happy with the ones i know already | 18:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | vayde: you need a new toy http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/warfare/885d/ | 19:06 |
| @vayde | Heh. I shudder to think what the designers call a 'block' or an 'attack' | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we could hack it and correct it | 19:09 |
| @vayde | but I can already punch through wall. | 19:10 |
| @vayde | well, bulletproof vests anyway | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | close enough | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what we used at my house instead of drywall | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | the vests make for an interesting wall texture, plus they don't need to be painted | 19:12 |
| @vayde | and then there's lots of pockets too | 19:12 |
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| greghacke | chirp - chirp - chirp | 20:46 |
| SDuensin | Hey greghacke | 20:50 |
| greghacke | hiya. just was really quiet. figured i'd see what all is working. | 20:50 |
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| cap10morgan | Can I bounce an idea off of you guys? | 21:02 |
| cap10morgan | I'm in the process of upgrading a bunch of sites to v. 7 | 21:02 |
| SDuensin | Hi cap10morgan | 21:02 |
| cap10morgan | And I'm replacing SQL Reports that query the WebGUI database w/ macros, wobjects, etc. that use the API instead. | 21:02 |
| cap10morgan | hello SDeunsin | 21:02 |
| cap10morgan | But as I'm doing this, I'm thinking, it would be cool if there was a generic wobject to do all this for me. Sort of an "Asset Report" wobject. | 21:03 |
| cap10morgan | The more I thought about that, though, the more I realized that 90% of that implementation would be re-implemented the navigation system. | 21:03 |
| cap10morgan | So really, I just want to add some more features to the Navigation system. | 21:04 |
| cap10morgan | Does that seem like logical? Or totally whacked? :) | 21:04 |
| SDuensin | Good luck with all that. :-) | 21:04 |
| SDuensin | I don't know enough about it to even say. | 21:04 |
| cap10morgan | s/re-implemented/re-implementing | 21:05 |
| @rizen | we've been thinking about doing that for quite a while | 21:05 |
| cap10morgan | SDuensin: heh, thanks | 21:05 |
| SDuensin | rizen lives! | 21:05 |
| greghacke | what are you trying to add? what data are you pulling/looking at pulling? | 21:05 |
| @rizen | but as far as adding it to the nav system that's a bad idea | 21:05 |
| @rizen | the nav system is already one of the most complex assets in webgui | 21:05 |
| @rizen | and one of the slowests | 21:05 |
| @rizen | adding to it would make it even slower | 21:06 |
| cap10morgan | rizen: ah, good reasons not to tack on too much more functionality then | 21:06 |
| @rizen | plus, a lot of the template variables exposed in the nav asset, wouldn't need to be exposed for an asset report asset | 21:06 |
| @rizen | however, you are right that the nav would be a good place to start | 21:06 |
| @rizen | or at least something to base it off of | 21:07 |
| cap10morgan | greghacke: basically i just need something w/ the flexibility of an SQL report but that uses the API to get its data | 21:07 |
| cap10morgan | rizen: ok | 21:07 |
| cap10morgan | i take it you guys don't have anything started yet? | 21:07 |
| @rizen | nope | 21:07 |
| @rizen | too many other projects | 21:08 |
| cap10morgan | rizen: gotcha | 21:08 |
| greghacke | OK, that I understand. I do a lot of SQL Reports for similar functions as well. | 21:08 |
| @rizen | the asset report asset | 21:08 |
| @rizen | should simply traverse the tree similar to the nav asset | 21:08 |
| @rizen | but limit based upon asset type | 21:09 |
| @rizen | and instead of all the variables that we expose in nav | 21:09 |
| @rizen | this would expose the properties of the assets | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | is it just an interface to getLineage? | 21:09 |
| @rizen | yup | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | that's like 10 lines of code | 21:09 |
| @rizen | it should be fairly trivial to write | 21:09 |
| @rizen | yeah | 21:09 |
| @rizen | the most difficult part is exposing all the configuration properties | 21:10 |
| cap10morgan | i'm wanting it to be able to do some pretty flexible traversing options, like start here and descend, start here and grab siblings (all the nav stuff), plus things like: just pull from this arbitrary list of assets and descend, etc. | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | right, so really just remove the guts of Nav and insert 10 lines of code | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | my @assets = WebGUI::Asset->getLineage($session, [options and switches]); | 21:11 |
| cap10morgan | perlDreamer: that's an excellent place to start. :) | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | foreach my $asset (@assets) { | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | push @varAssets, $asset->get(); | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | } | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | then the template variable render | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | that's all pseude-code, by the way | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | if you actually copy/paste that it probably won't work | 21:12 |
| cap10morgan | sure | 21:12 |
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| @preaction | cap10morgan: you may want to check $asset->can("getTemplateVars") first. I know that WebGUI::Asset::Event uses that to add a whole bunch of vars that are very useful if not necessary. I don't know the status of adding getTemplateVars as an Asset standard method though | 21:28 |
| cap10morgan | preaction: cool, will look into that | 21:28 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: has the deprecation of WebGUI::Session::DateTime (in preference of WebGUI::DateTime) been discussed? | 01:34 |
| @rizen | what do you want to discuss pd? | 01:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I seem to remember at some point we were going to deprecate Session::DateTime in favor of WebGUI::DateTime | 01:41 |
| @rizen | yes | 01:42 |
| @rizen | but that's a long time coming | 01:42 |
| +perlDreamer | well, in that case I'm going to finish the test suite for Session::DateTime | 01:42 |
| +perlDreamer | just in case | 01:42 |
| @rizen | we first have to migrate everything in the core to the new api | 01:42 |
| @rizen | actually, that's a good idea | 01:43 |
| @rizen | cuz then when we convert Session::Date to use WebGUI::Date | 01:43 |
| @rizen | (if we do that) | 01:43 |
| @rizen | then we'll be able to test that it works | 01:43 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll keep on it then | 01:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | w00t! 100% subroutine coverage in DateTime | 02:41 |
| @preaction | woohoo! | 02:41 |
| @rizen | ahoo | 02:41 |
| +perlDreamer | careful observers will notice however, that branch and conditional coverage are not mentioned in that press release | 02:41 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: can your PR gal also start sending release info to LWN.net? | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | formal press releases go to pr@lwn.net | 02:44 |
| @rizen | does that even make sense? | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 02:44 |
| @rizen | i thought that was a linux site | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | It is | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | But their weekly coverage also handles frameworks, tools, cad, audio and video editing, etc. | 02:44 |
| @rizen | ok | 02:44 |
| @rizen | i'll tell her | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | http://lwn.net/Articles/226258/ | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | there's an example | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'm tired of reading Zope/Plone/PHP stuff there all the time | 02:45 |
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| PedersenMJ | heylo all | 04:31 |
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| SDuensin | Hey PedersenMJ | 04:44 |
| PedersenMJ | How goes it? | 04:44 |
| SDuensin | Not bad. Watching 24 and putting up more WebGUI sites. :-) | 04:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool :) | 04:48 |
| +Radix-wrk | the new poll on plainblack.com's support page didn't include my favourite asset - snippet :( | 04:54 |
| SDuensin | God I love WebGUI. | 04:56 |
| @preaction | does IE7 not like forms generated by DOM? i've got a script here http://alumni.plainblack.net/extras/yui-webgui/build/form/dynamicGroup.js, everything seems to work except that WebGUI.Form.DynamicGroup.getSearchResults never seems to get called. I've got a bunch of alerts in there that works with FF no problem, but are never reached with IE7. | 05:01 |
| @preaction | IE7 gives me no error, and I can't see anything with my syntax that is overtly wrong | 05:02 |
| SDuensin | Dunno. I'm doing IE7 testing on my site right now. | 05:03 |
| @preaction | i think i might've found something... IE7 has no JS debugging at all for god's sake... | 05:03 |
| @preaction | and JS is already notorious for failing w/ no error for just no durned reasn | 05:03 |
| @preaction | 3 hours of this and i'm... a little purturbed... | 05:03 |
| @preaction | and of course Yui doesn't include a changelog, since it seems to be a Yui problem... | 05:35 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/how-to-get-the-most-out-of-snippets | 05:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, does anybody here know of a reliable rs-232 cable for a treo 650? I've now tried a total of three of them, and am getting nowhere. | 05:46 |
| +Radix-wrk | rs232? wtf? | 06:04 |
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| +Radix-wrk | surely it uses usb or mini-usb like everyone else | 06:04 |
| +Radix-wrk | I thought only vintage hardware used rs232 - like my old Commodore 64 | 06:05 |
| -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-140.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit [] | 06:06 | |
| PedersenMJ | Or many GPS units? | 06:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Or high end switches? | 06:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Or unix based servers which are meant to run in headless mode, and don't have a video card at all? | 06:06 |
| +Radix-wrk | ethernet | 06:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Which works *fabulously* once you've got TCP/IP up and running. What about before that gets started? | 06:07 |
| +Radix-wrk | usb | 06:07 |
| +Radix-wrk | ;) | 06:07 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm looking to connect my Treo 650 to a Garmin ForeTrex 101. The only cable it provides as an input/output is serial/rs-232. | 06:08 |
| +Radix-wrk | no bluetooth? | 06:08 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, USB works marvelously once the OS is running. What about when you need to modify the bios settings before the OS even can get started? | 06:08 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, no bluetooth. | 06:09 |
| +Radix-wrk | good luck then :) | 06:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep. I'm getting slower speeds (4800), but can't get the input to work on those speeds. I need a way to send data into the GPS, as well as pull data out of it. Well, need is the wrong word. It's not required, obviously. Would just make a nice finishing touch for paperless geocaching. | 06:10 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, I need a 9600bps connection to make the input work. And it's driving me nuts that I can't find it. | 06:11 |
| +Radix-wrk | 4800bps.. just seems so.. last century.. | 06:12 |
| PedersenMJ | Works great for nmea data, which does most of what is needed/desired, but still leaves me short on quickly adding waypoints to the gps. | 06:13 |
| PedersenMJ | BTW, Radix-wrk: I have a server upstairs which has no monitor, no video card, no keyboard, and no mouse. It uses a serial port console to allow me to connect a random laptop to it and administer when I have to do local administration. | 06:17 |
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| preaction_ | could someone try to 'svn co http://commctrl.com/hybrid' for me quick? | 06:43 |
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| PedersenMJ | svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/hybrid' | 06:44 |
| PedersenMJ | svn: PROPFIND of '/hybrid': 405 Method Not Allowed (http://commctrl.com) | 06:44 |
| @preaction | good, thanks | 06:44 |
| @preaction | oh crap | 06:44 |
| @preaction | 'svn co svn://commctrl.com/hybrid' <- try that instead | 06:45 |
| @preaction | i'm not using apache, but svnserve under inetd | 06:45 |
| PedersenMJ | svn: /data/svn.commctrl.com/hybrid/conf/svnserve.conf:18: Section header expected | 06:45 |
| @preaction | okay, better | 06:45 |
| @preaction | an error, but an error meaning you can reach the server | 06:45 |
| @preaction | how long did it take? pretty quick? | 06:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Very quick,. | 06:46 |
| @preaction | sweet, thanks | 06:46 |
| PedersenMJ | <5 seconds. Probably <2, but not positive if it was that quick. | 06:46 |
| @preaction | that box is under heavy load all the time, and i'm not nice to it | 06:46 |
| @preaction | i make a p90 run mod_perl + a whole slew of little stuff | 06:46 |
| * preaction is evul | 06:47 | |
| PedersenMJ | Poor little machine. | 06:47 |
| * PedersenMJ gives it some pity. | 06:47 | |
| @preaction | mod_perl consistently times out, and i'm planning on moving it out, but it'll still be running my torrents >:) | 06:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, nice! The new version of macvim finally does something good for the tabs. | 06:48 |
| @preaction | there's a macvim? interesting | 06:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh yeah. http://www.macvim.org/ | 06:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay guys, I've got a question for you. First off, the current theme in progress is http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/1705 | 06:51 |
| PedersenMJ | In the lower left is a box named "The Semantic Web". I'm having a hard time deciding what to put *in* that box. Any suggestions? | 06:51 |
| +perlDreamer | Something WebGUI-esque? | 06:52 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.lipsum.com/ | 06:53 |
| @preaction | http://plainblack.com?op=genesis | 06:53 |
| @preaction | was there an IE7 bug in the admin console / asset edit pages that got fixed since 7.3.10 that anyone knows about? | 06:54 |
| * preaction greps the changelogs | 06:54 | |
| PedersenMJ | I've been debating about it for a couple days now. A graphic seems cheesy, somehow. No other asset seems like quite the right thing to do. \ | 06:54 |
| PedersenMJ | The genesis snippet might be okay, I suppose. | 06:55 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: not that I did | 06:57 |
| +perlDreamer | that may help limit the search | 06:57 |
| @preaction | i can't see one... i think it's just IE's debugger throwing up on the code previous, preventing me from getting to code afterwards (which is where the real problem lies) | 06:58 |
| PedersenMJ | Hmmm... I wonder, what do people think of this idea for an RFE? A maximum number of items to appear in a navigation control. | 06:58 |
| @preaction | like max levels + max assets per level? sort of thing? | 06:59 |
| PedersenMJ | My goal: I'd like to have an "older news" section, and have it limit itself to 3 or 4 items. Navigation *seems* like the right idea, which is where that idea for an RFE came from. | 06:59 |
| @preaction | actually, cap10morgan is (i think) implementing the Asset Report Wobject, which will be basically an user-configurable interface to AssetLineage->getLineage | 07:00 |
| PedersenMJ | Dang it, is max assets per level a new feature? I don't see that (though could be blind) when making a new navigation. | 07:00 |
| @preaction | so, a subset of navigation's features | 07:00 |
| @preaction | max assets per level might be a new feature, and it might be a good idea. nav assets can be ... slow | 07:00 |
| PedersenMJ | I might just toss that in as an RFE, then. If it's not already in there, at least. | 07:01 |
| +perlDreamer | max assets per level probably won't help much | 07:01 |
| +perlDreamer | children are returned flat | 07:02 |
| +perlDreamer | at least not for speed anyway | 07:02 |
| +perlDreamer | but I like the concept | 07:02 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen will point out that it will make the nav slower since it's more code | 07:02 |
| PedersenMJ | For me, it's not about speed. I'd like it to return just the first (x) items, and that's it. | 07:02 |
| +Radix-wrk | I'd like max assets per level too | 07:03 |
| +perlDreamer | post it as an RFE | 07:03 |
| +perlDreamer | we have karma that needs spending | 07:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Just double-checking the latest featureset, to make sure I'm not duping existant features, first. | 07:03 |
| @preaction | it might speed it up, since you don't have to check so many assets (each asset you walk through in a nav has to be instanciated) | 07:04 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what I was saying earlier | 07:04 |
| +perlDreamer | you get a flat list of kids back | 07:04 |
| +perlDreamer | in order to tell what level it is, you have to instanciate it | 07:04 |
| @preaction | no, you can tell from the lineage itself | 07:05 |
| @preaction | 0000001 <- root. 00000010000001 <- under root, say /home 00000010000002 - under root, say /import | 07:05 |
| +perlDreamer | How do you get the lineage without instanciating it? | 07:06 |
| @preaction | the getLineage call in the nav asset doesn't returnObjects iirc. it also has a "max assets per level" option | 07:07 |
| +perlDreamer | it does | 07:07 |
| +perlDreamer | return objects, I mean | 07:07 |
| +perlDreamer | but that could be optimized out | 07:08 |
| @preaction | that doesn't sound good. it might have a whole branch of the tree it skips for some reason or another | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the consequence of limiting the number of assets per level | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm starting to think that wG could do with some "base" assets. | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | Most Nav's show 1 level | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | simplified versions of Assets could really speed things up | 07:10 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/navigation-max-assets-per-level-/-max-assets#wUAmOUkwTuB47SjwjEfzdw | 07:10 |
| @preaction | isn't "ancestorLimit" what we're talking about? | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | that's number of levels up from me (.) | 07:11 |
| @preaction | no, it's endingLineageLength | 07:11 |
| +perlDreamer | that's depth down, not number per level | 07:12 |
| @preaction | then what's ancestorLimit? | 07:12 |
| +perlDreamer | number of levels up from me to display | 07:12 |
| @preaction | so one is depth down from root, and the other is depth up from current | 07:13 |
| +perlDreamer | not from root, from ., to use directory nomenclature | 07:13 |
| @preaction | so one is depth down from current, otre is depth up from current, nothing to limit how long those branches reach | 07:14 |
| PedersenMJ | However, the idea I was originally discussing is not depth, but breadth of a given level. | 07:15 |
| +perlDreamer | only the select boxes for the Asset. I think it's up or down 5-6 levels | 07:15 |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ: exactly | 07:15 |
| @preaction | PedersenMJ: it might be best to lump this into the Asset Report wobject, since its plan is to not add all the nav-specific stuff and instead add all the asset's data (from Asset->get) | 07:16 |
| PedersenMJ | I'd be okay with it either way, honestly. My big goal is to be able to allow people to create a "news" type folder, dump articles in there, and have them be pulled out (order not yet specified) and links put onto a page. | 07:17 |
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| PedersenMJ | heading to bed myself. See you all later! | 08:16 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning. | 15:55 |
| ckotil | good morning indeed | 15:56 |
| ckotil | a bt nippy. but this week should mark the end of that | 15:56 |
| SDuensin | It's tired in here. I need more coffee. | 16:04 |
| ckotil | i had a lot of sleep last night, and a relaxing evening. | 16:04 |
| ckotil | cleaned up the house, basically spring cleaned for a couple hours | 16:04 |
| ckotil | which had me sleeping even better than usual | 16:05 |
| SDuensin | I watched 24 and worked on WebGUI sites. :-) | 16:05 |
| ckotil | that was a helluvan episode of 24 | 16:10 |
| SDuensin | Best part: "Damn, Jack." | 16:11 |
| ckotil | haha | 16:11 |
| ckotil | he took em all out | 16:11 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning, bopbop | 16:35 |
| bopbop | morning! | 16:35 |
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| SDuensin | Hey cap10morgan | 16:37 |
| cap10morgan | Hey | 16:37 |
| SDuensin | I think I broke my web host. :-) | 16:44 |
| SDuensin | But I did it in a good way... | 16:45 |
| SDuensin | Nothing works *except* WebGUI! | 16:45 |
| ckotil | heh | 17:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | It irks me when you try to help somebody on the boards and they completely ignore you. | 18:54 |
| @rizen | indeed | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | it's worse for you guys. | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | People pay you to help them, then they ignore you. | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | and then bad mouth you and the software | 18:57 |
| @rizen | still at least we get paid, you just get shafted | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | This is true. | 18:58 |
| +perlDreamer | You always know how to cheer me up, rizen. | 18:58 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 18:58 |
| @vayde | he has quite the bedside manner ;) | 18:58 |
| +perlDreamer | Hey, vayde! Up for some testing? | 18:59 |
| @vayde | Heh. Lemme solve, or at least get a head start on my other labors. Lest TMRFE be responsible for my unemployment too. | 19:00 |
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| @preaction | nearly five hours later, i find that the solution to my problem is incredibly stupid: http://whyiesucks.blogspot.com/2006/07/ie-cannot-set-events-via-dom-in-order.html | 21:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | i always use the yui to set eventhandlers | 21:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | yui rocks | 21:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | like elvis does | 21:15 |
| SDuensin | Go IE! | 21:15 |
| @vayde | I have a bunch of ninjas, wanna make a trip west preaction? | 21:21 |
| cap10morgan | How do you get your favicon.ico file to show up as /favicon.ico on your site so IE will see it? | 21:21 |
| cap10morgan | I've tried setting the URL to "favicon.ico" and it renders the entire asset inaccessible, even for editing | 21:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | upload a file with url /favico.ico | 21:22 |
| cap10morgan | i have to delete it | 21:22 |
| @preaction | i don't think i have the ... testicular fortitude to challenge Skynet | 21:22 |
| @vayde | that's ok, I dont actually have any ninjas in WA. Strangely enough, the only place I do have ninjas awaiting my commands is Minneapolis... and Madison. | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | they can sleep over at my house! | 21:28 |
| +perlDreamer | now, how do we get them from WI to OR? | 21:28 |
| @vayde | Not unless you want your butt kicked by a 15 yr old girl, and then your wife. | 21:28 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I was more concerned with transportation logistics than other pursuits | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | We have a software company that needs attitude adjustment | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | Focus | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | focus | 21:30 |
| @vayde | ahh, my mistake | 21:30 |
| @vayde | I'll tell you this, they'd never see her coming. | 21:30 |
| @vayde | Or believe what they were seeing when a 90lb little slip of a thing starts tossing 200lb guys around like confetti | 21:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | cap10morgan | 21:31 |
| +MrHairgrease | what i said doesn't work | 21:31 |
| cap10morgan | MrHairgrease: yes, I got it working though | 21:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | my asset is editable though | 21:32 |
| cap10morgan | thank you! | 21:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 21:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | how? | 21:32 |
| cap10morgan | i just needed a <link rel="shortcut icon" href="/uploads/xx/xx/xxxxxxxxxxxx/favicon.ico" /> tag in the template | 21:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | ah | 21:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | doh | 21:32 |
| cap10morgan | that seems to work w/ all browsers | 21:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | i knew that | 21:32 |
| cap10morgan | including IE | 21:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 21:32 |
| cap10morgan | my devs were putting pngs everywhere and only testing on Fx | 21:35 |
| cap10morgan | where those work fine :) | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | cap, I know it's after the fact, but there's a wiki article on the favicon | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/changing-the-site-icon-in-webgui | 21:46 |
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| @vayde | Wow preaction, my kung fu is definitely improving if I can knock you offline with a single IM | 23:29 |
| @preaction | that was YOU? | 23:30 |
| @preaction | my computer just started smoking and flashing | 23:30 |
| @preaction | then spat a cloud of black ink at me | 23:30 |
| @preaction | i'm lucky to be alive! | 23:30 |
| @vayde | tele-smack (tm) | 23:30 |
| @vayde | been working on it for years | 23:31 |
| @preaction | you, my friend, are a God | 23:31 |
| @preaction | all i ask is that you use your new powers wisely | 23:31 |
| @vayde | no, no, no. you're thinking of tele-smite. That's different | 23:31 |
| @vayde | I'll have to level up before I can do that. | 23:31 |
| @vayde | You know what I don't understand? Does anybody actually buy stock that gets advertised to you via spam? I mean, does this strike you as a good investment? | 23:37 |
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| @vayde | Anybody know how to force vi to use a certain syntax highlighting scheme? | 23:40 |
| @vayde | nm. :set ft=perl will do it | 23:43 |
| SDuensin | vi = Virtually Incomprehensible | 23:43 |
| @vayde | hey, it's kinda like a secret handshake. | 23:44 |
| @vayde | I have a couple students that use emacs, and I try to keep them from holding hands :P | 23:45 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 23:45 |
| SDuensin | I still stick with JOE. Good old WordStar. | 23:45 |
| SDuensin | Anyway, I'm off. Headed home. Talk to you all later. | 23:47 |
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| --- Day changed Wed Apr 11 2007 | ||
| nuba | whoa. WordStar.. now thats ancient stuff | 00:09 |
| nuba | i remember seeing wordstar around when i was, like, 7 yrs old | 00:09 |
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| perlmonkey2 | Ahh....I think there might have been a problem with the Plainblack website caching. I went to the downloads page and the latest release was 7.3.3. | 00:55 |
| perlmonkey2 | Woot....yet another hands free upgrade (7.3.5-7.3.14) | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | ah yes. Those have been rare recently | 01:04 |
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| perlmonkey2 | Bah....Stupid Weather::Com req | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | just force install it | 01:58 |
| perlmonkey2 | OOInterface test on line 167 | 01:58 |
| perlmonkey2 | returning 2005 | 01:58 |
| perlmonkey2 | let me guess, it was written in 2005 | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | yup, it's a bad test | 01:58 |
| perlmonkey2 | hmm....maybe I'll send in a patch tonight.....that is a few years for it to still be bad. | 01:59 |
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| PedersenMJ | good evening | 04:43 |
| -!- perlDreame1 [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui | 05:06 | |
| perlDreame1 | bother | 05:06 |
| perlDreame1 | I forgot to log off at work | 05:06 |
| * PedersenMJ changes perlDreamer's name to Pooh. | 05:11 | |
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| perlDreame1 | What did you say PedersenMJ? I have a bit of fluff in my ear... | 05:45 |
| PedersenMJ | That's okay, preaction . Thanks for noticin' me. | 05:48 |
| @preaction | you're welcome | 05:48 |
| perlDreame1 | Does anyone know how to make Devel::Cover generate an HTML report by default, instead of just the text one? | 05:52 |
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| PedersenMJ_ | g'night all. | 07:48 |
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| AMH_bob | /msg NickServ IDENTIFY ma48as | 14:38 |
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| +Radix_ | someone needs a new password! | 15:16 |
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| nuba | heh | 15:26 |
| AMH_bob | hello | 15:32 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning. | 15:52 |
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| rizen_ | howdy neighbors | 16:44 |
| SDuensin | Hey rizen | 16:45 |
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| @rizen | So how's your WebGUI migration going SD? | 16:53 |
| SDuensin | The WebGUI side is going great. Arguing with legacy crap is going to drive me to drink. :-) | 16:54 |
| @rizen | I tried to make the API extremely easy to use to import existing external content. Our devs have loved it for that. | 16:55 |
| @rizen | But at the same time, they always curse the legacy systems they have to export the data from | 16:56 |
| @rizen | cuz there generally is no API | 16:56 |
| @rizen | so it's a bunch of raw database queries, and raw file parsing | 16:56 |
| SDuensin | I haven't managed to get that far yet. I need to get the existing Drupal site running on the new server before I can deal with the migration. | 16:56 |
| @rizen | ah | 16:56 |
| @rizen | is it already running elsewhere? | 16:56 |
| SDuensin | I did read a bit on the WebGUI stuff though. :-) | 16:57 |
| @rizen | perhaps you could write your migration script to work across the net | 16:57 |
| SDuensin | The Drupal site? Yes. | 16:57 |
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| SDuensin | I could, but I'm time constrained on this. I need to get all my sites off the old server so I can quit paying for it. | 16:57 |
| @rizen | ah | 16:57 |
| SDuensin | Yea. Migrating servers while entertaining my 2 year old daughter was kinda tough last night. No wonder I couldn't get it all working. :-) | 16:58 |
| @rizen | that would do it almost every time | 17:02 |
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| SDuensin | rizen - Simple request for the new WRE... If you have to "setenvironment" with it, change the user's prompt so they know what environment they're in. | 17:30 |
| @rizen | is IRC an RFE list? | 17:30 |
| SDuensin | Might be. :-) | 17:31 |
| +MrHairgrease | irc = intrinsic rfe channel right? | 17:32 |
| SDuensin | hehehe | 17:32 |
| @rizen | insignificant requests chided | 17:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | intolerable rambling childtalk | 17:36 |
| @rizen | insolence rhetoric and chicanery | 17:36 |
| @vayde | irritable reprobates and children | 17:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | irc = who gives a damn | 17:42 |
| @vayde | I'm just not happy until I get to chime in with my 2 cents worth... I learned it from my ex-wife | 17:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 17:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | i didn't know | 17:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | prolly b/c i don't have an ex-wife | 17:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 17:44 |
| @vayde | I only made 3 mistakes: marrying a laywer, marrying THAT laywer, and getting married. =) | 17:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | ah well | 17:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | at least they're correlated | 17:46 |
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| +crythias | greetings | 19:15 |
| +crythias | perldreamer, rizen, preaction, you here? | 19:15 |
| @preaction | yes'm | 19:15 |
| +crythias | yessir, would be more appropriate, but whatever. | 19:15 |
| +crythias | :) | 19:15 |
| @rizen | indeed | 19:15 |
| +crythias | anyway. What would be the ramifications of giving a UILevel to a group? | 19:16 |
| +crythias | Example being the posts by philadev regarding the Admin Group Template Var | 19:16 |
| +crythias | if the *group* had an effective UI Level, that would make the editors stuck with the group's UILevel (or at least a thought of the max UILevel being the one assigned to the group) | 19:17 |
| @rizen | but then which group would you go with? | 19:18 |
| @rizen | if each group could have a UI level | 19:18 |
| @rizen | and each user can be a member of various groups | 19:18 |
| +crythias | MAX (YourUILevel, EditorUILevel, AdminUILevel) | 19:19 |
| +crythias | er. sorry | 19:19 |
| +crythias | I didn't say that right | 19:19 |
| +crythias | MAX (YourUILevel,EditorUILevel,ViewerUILevel) | 19:19 |
| @rizen | do you understand the performance implications therein? on every request, you need to then check all the UI levels of every group that the user belongs to | 19:20 |
| @rizen | plus i don't even know wha tEditorUiLevel and viewerUiLevel means | 19:20 |
| +crythias | For an Asset to be edited, it checks what UI Level you have before you can perform certain functions. | 19:21 |
| @rizen | unless you mean the edit and view groups of the asset | 19:21 |
| @rizen | which is what it sounds like | 19:21 |
| +crythias | and what group(s) of which you are members, yeah. | 19:21 |
| @rizen | and then you have two problems | 19:21 |
| @rizen | it has to recursively check all the groups of groups | 19:21 |
| @rizen | so we're back to performance | 19:21 |
| @rizen | and secondly...if it's attached to the group | 19:22 |
| @rizen | and the user can set which group is assigned to the asset | 19:22 |
| @rizen | then they can effectively set their own ui level | 19:22 |
| +crythias | that's why I'm asking. | 19:22 |
| @rizen | if you want them to be able to set their own UI level | 19:22 |
| @rizen | then just expose the UI Level to them in their preferences | 19:22 |
| @rizen | just set the user profile field for UI level to be "editable" | 19:23 |
| @rizen | and there you have it | 19:23 |
| +crythias | hrm. OK, then what's a good way to have some editors have some choices removed for an asset in one area but not another? can they duplicate the .pm | 19:23 |
| +crythias | like, Article.pm to Article2.pm? | 19:24 |
| @rizen | why would you ever want that? | 19:24 |
| +crythias | "Unfortunately, I only want the edit controls to be hidden when this asset shows up in this particular template. I'm using an asset proxy to a preconfigured navigation that is set to edit by Admin. However our users occasionally attempt to alter the few assets that are embedded in this template. Primarily because the edit icons lead them to believe they have that ability. That, of course, results in getting a permission denied error which initiates a chain o | 19:24 |
| @rizen | i just don't understand | 19:24 |
| +crythias | not me. | 19:24 |
| @rizen | the answer is TFB | 19:25 |
| @rizen | do it a different way | 19:25 |
| +crythias | fair 'nuff. | 19:25 |
| +crythias | the thread, btw: http://www.plainblack.com/web_design_templates_and_themes/admin-group-template-var/4#id8dUXh44OqZa7cfciuxZsaw | 19:25 |
| @rizen | the reason is, there's no reason to sacrifice performance for a feature that is likely to be used by less than 1% of users,a nd then less than 1% of the time | 19:26 |
| +crythias | then again, they could simply not include the edit controls macro in the article template. | 19:26 |
| @rizen | yup | 19:26 |
| +crythias | by macro I ment tmpl_var... | 19:26 |
| +crythias | meant. sheesh. | 19:26 |
| @rizen | hence "rizen: do it a different way" | 19:26 |
| +crythias | yeah. I was trying to figure out the "different ways" and .. yeah. same thing I've done before. render the full document then grab the html and replace the tmp_var controls. | 19:27 |
| @preaction | does setting a thumbnail size of "1" in the collab system act specially? "1" seems to leave the image at full size instead of generating a thumbnail, but 2 will make a 2px thumb | 19:50 |
| @preaction | if so, i'm going to post a bug about getting that documented | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds like a bug | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | smells like a bug | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | but I don't think it's a bug in the CS, it's either in Image::Magick or in Storage::Image | 20:00 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a related bug in the WebGUI::Image | 20:08 |
| ckotil | question, can I uplaod mega huge iso's (cd iso's) to webgui without blowing it up? | 21:00 |
| ckotil | and without my db getting insanely huge | 21:00 |
| @rizen | it doesnt' affect db size | 21:01 |
| ckotil | ok wikd. | 21:01 |
| @rizen | but it does affect the size of your uploads folder | 21:01 |
| ckotil | thats fine. | 21:01 |
| ckotil | we'd have to store the large files anyway | 21:01 |
| @rizen | each revisiion of the file will create a new copy of the file also | 21:01 |
| ckotil | i was going to place them in a passthru | 21:01 |
| ckotil | OHHH | 21:01 |
| @rizen | also...your apache will likely time out uploading such a huge file | 21:02 |
| ckotil | heh | 21:02 |
| @rizen | methinks you'd be better off doing a passthru folder | 21:02 |
| ckotil | noone wants to do that :/ | 21:02 |
| ckotil | i can raise the timeout limit | 21:02 |
| ckotil | and i alredy raised the apreq2file size limit | 21:02 |
| ckotil | hrm problem with raising timeout limit, is that it raises it for every connection | 21:18 |
| ckotil | and that coudl be baad | 21:18 |
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| cap10morgan | If you have a date in a userDefined field, is it possible to do formatting on that date in the template? Or would that require a custom macro or javascript? | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | how is the date entered? | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | epoch or human | 21:21 |
| cap10morgan | human | 21:22 |
| cap10morgan | but mysql-style | 21:22 |
| cap10morgan | 2007.-04-11 | 21:23 |
| cap10morgan | er, no period | 21:23 |
| cap10morgan | weicd | 21:23 |
| cap10morgan | wow, i can type! | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | you need to use either javascript or a custom macro | 21:23 |
| cap10morgan | perlDreamer: ok, thanks | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | The good news is that you can use the existing date macro for the starting point of a custom one. | 21:24 |
| cap10morgan | perlDreamer: good call | 21:24 |
| ckotil | does this seem like a timeout error? [Tue Apr 10 17:14:58 2007] [error] [client 129.79.9.37] End of file found, referer: | 21:25 |
| ckotil | the file SEEMS to have been uplaoded into public/uploads just fine | 21:28 |
| cap10morgan | i guess also, since it's a userDefined field, I could just run a query to go through and convert them all to the format I want and then tell people to input them that way in the future | 21:28 |
| cap10morgan | since it's not actually a date field... | 21:28 |
| ckotil | WORKS. | 21:31 |
| ckotil | that error was from something else. | 21:31 |
| ckotil | tho didnt make much senes. | 21:32 |
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| ckotil | folder asset needs an option to reverse alphabetise items. | 22:27 |
| ckotil | im going to create aan rfe, then if i have time ill try to implement | 22:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | ckotil, that's a very simple RFE | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | It should sail right through | 23:32 |
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| ckotil | i think so too | 23:53 |
| ckotil | heading home.. have a good night | 23:54 |
| --- Day changed Thu Apr 12 2007 | ||
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| @rizen | howdy peeps | 01:45 |
| +perlDreamer | hey, man | 01:47 |
| +perlDreamer | what's shakin' in Wisconsin? | 01:47 |
| @rizen | it's been snowing here all day | 01:47 |
| @rizen | not to mention that i had a very busy one today | 01:48 |
| +perlDreamer | but the boards have been so light...? | 01:48 |
| @rizen | answered nearly 70 emails | 01:48 |
| @rizen | and 16 phone calls | 01:48 |
| @rizen | fixed two bugs | 01:48 |
| +perlDreamer | sweet! | 01:48 |
| @rizen | fixed 3 server problems | 01:48 |
| @rizen | wrote a speech that i have to give in about an hour | 01:49 |
| @rizen | and interviewed two potential candidates for our new LTE position | 01:49 |
| @rizen | that's a pretty full day | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | what's an LTE? | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | Linux Technical Expert | 01:51 |
| @rizen | Limited Term Employment | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | Loud Typewriter Executioner | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 01:52 |
| @rizen | i want to hire someone for a few months to clean up bugs and write tests | 01:52 |
| @rizen | cuz everone on staff is so busy with projects and stuff | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | It's so busy preaction hasn't even been talking on IRC that much | 01:53 |
| @rizen | yup | 01:53 |
| @rizen | very busy | 01:53 |
| @rizen | he, like me, is sharing Frank's workload while he's on vacation | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | Frank's on vacation? | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | no way | 01:54 |
| @rizen | he's doing the dev stuff that frank does, and i'm writing up quote requests and dev specs | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | Frank work's like 16 hours a day 6 days/week | 01:54 |
| @rizen | yup, and burned out because of it | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | that's no good | 01:55 |
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| nuba | who's Frank? | 02:12 |
| nuba | as in, irc nick.. | 02:12 |
| @rizen | he's on here so little i don't even know | 02:12 |
| @rizen | rizzo maybe | 02:12 |
| @preaction | khenn | 02:13 |
| @rizen | ah, there you go | 02:13 |
| @preaction | msg chanserv access #webgui list | 02:13 |
| @rizen | i'm sitting at a coffee shop | 02:24 |
| @rizen | and there are three girls sitting next to me | 02:24 |
| @rizen | who have a LPM that's off the charts | 02:25 |
| @rizen | LPM = 'likes' per minute | 02:25 |
| @rizen | it's so 'like', just, 'like', do it, 'like', you know | 02:25 |
| cap10morgan | that's, like, a bummer, rizen | 02:25 |
| @preaction | omg like seriously? | 02:25 |
| @preaction | rotflol omg gtg kthxbye | 02:26 |
| @rizen | it's giving me a headache | 02:26 |
| @rizen | methinks i'll have to move | 02:26 |
| @rizen | it's almost time to head over to madmongers to give my talk | 02:26 |
| @rizen | so i guess i'll just shutdown and head over there | 02:26 |
| @rizen | talk at you later guys | 02:26 |
| @rizen | like goodbye or something | 02:26 |
| @rizen | like so totally like later | 02:26 |
| @preaction | omg <3 ttyl bbq | 02:27 |
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| cap10morgan | hehe | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | ponies | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | kittens | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | puppies | 02:29 |
| @preaction | OMG KITTENS | 02:29 |
| @preaction | hey... it's not caturday | 02:30 |
| @preaction | wait. every day is caturday! | 02:30 |
| cap10morgan | http://www.rathergood.com/ | 02:30 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: you going to be around later tonight? I'd like to talk about the calendar with you. | 02:30 |
| @preaction | i might be, otherwise i have a "vacation" coming up, and after i accomplish the one thing i want, i've got a large calendar rewrite/refactor to do (to fix bugs and basically do everything that i half-assed in the 6 hours before release) | 02:31 |
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| cap10morgan | I have a phantom asset type being loaded at the top of my new content menu. Where can I find out what all classes WebGUI is loading into that? | 03:09 |
| cap10morgan | It has no name and acts like a Navigation asset if I try to deploy (but all the i18n strings are blank). | 03:10 |
| cap10morgan | nm, i deleted my Asset_Navigation.pm l10n file | 03:31 |
| cap10morgan | haha | 03:31 |
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| PedersenMJ | good eventide. | 04:12 |
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| PedersenMJ | Okay, must ask: How does everybody else deal with the "I'm not in the mood to do any coding/etc" blues, and get themselves motivated? | 05:45 |
| * PedersenMJ drops a pin | 06:05 | |
| * PedersenMJ notes that it was a pin from a hand grenade? | 06:21 | |
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| +Radix-wrk | hey roy | 06:25 |
| +snapcount | how's it going? | 06:27 |
| +snapcount | should be about lunch time in your neck of the woods right about now eh? | 06:28 |
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| +Radix-wrk | yup.. just about :) | 06:37 |
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| PedersenMJ | Okay, I'm lame, I admit it, but I just played Doom 3 for the first time ever. I'd heard good things, but never actually tried it. Gonna buy it ASAP. | 08:03 |
| +snapcount | can you download a demo? | 08:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, and that's how I got to try it this time, actually. | 08:04 |
| +snapcount | I'll have to check it out then | 08:05 |
| +snapcount | that's how I got hooked on supcom so maybe I shouldn't... | 08:05 |
| * snapcount ponders | 08:05 | |
| PedersenMJ | I've only ever had two games that really affected my heart rate. The 7th Guest (play most of it overnight, with the lights out, and headphones on, by yourself, it gets creepy), and Doom 3. | 08:06 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm now doing my cool off, to return to normal, before trying for sleep. That, and I need to find the duct tape mod for it. | 08:06 |
| +snapcount | I'll have to try it out then... I've got surround sound and a sub now on my system | 08:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh crap... I can't imagine what that would do to me with lights out. And I didn't even make it very far! | 08:08 |
| +snapcount | you're getting me all excited =D | 08:08 |
| PedersenMJ | http://ducttape.glenmurphy.com/ | 08:08 |
| PedersenMJ | Trust me, you *want* the duct tape mod. Trying to switch between flashlight and shotgun is *very* difficult to do when having the living crap beat (or shot!) out of you. | 08:09 |
| PedersenMJ | BTW, the demo I downloaded was 465 megs (the freaking !demo!) | 08:10 |
| +Radix-wrk | that's pretty small in this day and age | 08:10 |
| PedersenMJ | Really? Huh, guess I've been out of PC gaming for far too long then. I remember when 80 megs was huge. | 08:11 |
| +Radix-wrk | supreme commander demo is 1.2GB, C&C 3 demo is 1.8GB, and that's getting almost average | 08:11 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.fileplanet.com/top50.aspx?s=174&v=90001 | 08:12 |
| PedersenMJ | Geez. Yep, I've been out of it. | 08:13 |
| +Radix-wrk | Sorry.. got those mixed up.. supcom was 1GB, C&C 1.2, and something else was 1.8GB | 08:13 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, for that, you get thirty lashes with a wet noodle. | 08:13 |
| PedersenMJ | Administered by JT at his earliest leisure. | 08:13 |
| +Radix-wrk | I got accepted into the LOTR online beta.. and the install for that was a whopping 3.5GB | 08:13 |
| PedersenMJ | Someday, I'll be willing to do that. For now, though, I needed a game to play that was more action than stuff like minesweeper/etc. And I wasn't finding it anyplace else. The D3 demo was perfect for me :) | 08:15 |
| +Radix-wrk | We had a customer complain recently about the size of our new installers for our software here - 64MB | 08:15 |
| +Radix-wrk | generated a lot of in-house discussion on it all.. I did a bit of research to show that it's actually pretty small in this day and age | 08:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Meh. If it fits on a CD, I'm okay with it as an installer. And 64MB? That's not too much. Especially when you consider that that is a whole program. | 08:17 |
| +Radix-wrk | Half-Life episode one has some freaky bits with flashlights btw | 08:17 |
| +Radix-wrk | there's a couple of spots in that where you get rushed by a heap of creeps in a building underground, and your flashlight batteries never last long enough.. | 08:18 |
| PedersenMJ | I'd love to play Half-Life. But have heard too many complaints with Steam. And really dislike the fact that if my net connect goes down, I lose ability to play the game. | 08:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Unless things have changed in a big way, HL2+ is out for me. | 08:19 |
| +Radix-wrk | pfft.. you can still play offline :P | 08:19 |
| PedersenMJ | I *thought* I heard that if the game can't connect to Steam, it won't start. Did I misunderstand? | 08:19 |
| +Radix-wrk | there is a steam offline mode for games | 08:20 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, things have improved. That's good. | 08:21 |
| +Radix-wrk | You do need to be ONLINE to select that mode. | 08:21 |
| +Radix-wrk | that's the big fubar really.. you essentially download your license and lock it when you do so - so you need access to the steam servers to get your license. | 08:22 |
| +Radix-wrk | Once you've done so, you're fine though | 08:22 |
| * PedersenMJ shakes his head. That's far enough for me. Valve may have the greatest game ever made. But I very much doubt I'll be willing to put up with Steam. | 08:22 | |
| +Radix-wrk | Steam rocks if you're online though. | 08:23 |
| +Radix-wrk | It makes updates very simple | 08:23 |
| +Radix-wrk | You can install it on another machine and download the whole game easily | 08:23 |
| +Radix-wrk | it means licenses for games are dictated by your steam username/pass rather than machines, etc. | 08:24 |
| PedersenMJ | Most times, I am online, true. But, as I've just been reminded by another program I use: When it's not available, and I need it then, I'm going to be pissed off. I'll just avoid the pissed off part. | 08:24 |
| +Radix-wrk | it never bothered me | 08:26 |
| PedersenMJ | It would me, sooner or later. It's why I left Windows behind. It's why I'm pondering writing up a GPL'ed CacheMate replacement right now, since I don't have the source, and can't fix my problem because of it (and yes, I could, and would, fix it otherwise). | 08:27 |
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| PedersenMJ | Anyway, heading to bed now. Good <insert time of day here>, all! | 08:37 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning! | 15:38 |
| AMH_bob | Eh, goodmorning back to you! | 16:10 |
| SDuensin | Hey AMH_bob | 16:10 |
| AMH_bob | All is well I hope? | 16:10 |
| AMH_bob | (btp it's 3 pm here) | 16:10 |
| SDuensin | Well enough. I won't really know until I get through my coffee. :-) | 16:10 |
| AMH_bob | Enjoy! | 16:11 |
| SDuensin | Hehe | 16:11 |
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| @rizen | As I was going to St. Ives, | 18:00 |
| @rizen | I met a man with seven wives, | 18:00 |
| @rizen | Every wife had seven sacks, | 18:00 |
| @rizen | Every sack had seven cats, | 18:00 |
| @rizen | Every cat had seven kits - | 18:00 |
| @rizen | Kits, cats, sacks, and wives, | 18:00 |
| @rizen | How many were going to St. Ives? | 18:00 |
| @vayde | 1 | 18:01 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 18:02 |
| @vayde | there once was a man from nantucket, | 18:03 |
| @vayde | ... nevermind | 18:03 |
| @rizen | you win, and the prize is.............drum roll..........a swift kick in the nuts | 18:03 |
| AMH_bob | Bruce Willis fans I asume? | 18:03 |
| @vayde | I always win the cool prizes | 18:04 |
| AMH_bob | Have a nice day (it's 5 pm here and I'm leaving for home) | 18:05 |
| AMH_bob | bye! | 18:05 |
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| @rizen | bye bob | 18:10 |
| @rizen | crap...didn't get him before he left | 18:10 |
| SDuensin | Too slow, chicken marengo! | 18:10 |
| @rizen | don't make me come over there sd | 18:10 |
| @rizen | i might be forced to give vaydes prize to you | 18:11 |
| SDuensin | I'm not scared of you! I've seen your code! :-P | 18:11 |
| @rizen | what's that supposed to mean? | 18:11 |
| * SDuensin is in a goofy mood. Too much coffee or something. | 18:11 | |
| @rizen | i vote to kickban SD for 3 minutes | 18:11 |
| @rizen | all in favor, say aye | 18:12 |
| @rizen | the ayes have it | 18:12 |
| SDuensin | You should be nice to me. I'm your biggest fan. :-) | 18:12 |
| @rizen | You are? | 18:12 |
| @vayde | the eyes are above the nose | 18:12 |
| SDuensin | I am! | 18:12 |
| SDuensin | Just ask me! | 18:12 |
| @rizen | i was not aware that it was possible to have fans in the software industry | 18:12 |
| @rizen | i thought that was reserved for sports and moviestars | 18:13 |
| @rizen | oh, and rockstars | 18:13 |
| SDuensin | Na. They're all deadbeats. | 18:13 |
| SDuensin | I'm (still) gearing up to really push WebGUI as the ultimate web solution. | 18:15 |
| @rizen | and then you'll convert ZKdesktop to be a webgui addon? | 18:16 |
| SDuensin | Sure, if you help me work out the integration. | 18:17 |
| SDuensin | I'm still having problems seeing how the two really fit together. :-( | 18:17 |
| @rizen | someday we'll have to schedule a phone call or something | 18:20 |
| @rizen | and i can explain it to you | 18:20 |
| SDuensin | That'd be cool. Anything I can do to help WebGUI rule the world. | 18:20 |
| SDuensin | I really wish I could have stuck with WebGUI during the 6.xx days. It's nice to be back. | 18:21 |
| @rizen | i understand why you and some other people didn't though | 18:21 |
| @rizen | 6.x was rough | 18:21 |
| @rizen | that's part of why we're spending so much time stabilizing 7 | 18:22 |
| @rizen | we want people to have a very good and easy time with webgui | 18:22 |
| SDuensin | Wasn't so much issues with 6.xx as much as it was finding a place to host it. | 18:22 |
| @rizen | ah | 18:23 |
| @rizen | true enough. webgui can't be hosted by mortal hosting companies | 18:23 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 18:24 |
| SDuensin | I think I finally have a solution that 1) I can afford, 2) Runs WebGUI, and 3) Runs my other odd stuff. Now it's time to push it and make some money! | 18:25 |
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| +perlDreamer | Hmmm... I'm busy today, but saw this and thought MrHairGrease would enjoy it. | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/04/real_xeyes.html | 19:17 |
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| ckotil | haha | 19:27 |
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| ckotil | anyone know which assets have the reverse sort option? | 22:06 |
| @rizen | only cs as far as i know | 22:07 |
| ckotil | ok. | 22:08 |
| ckotil | thx | 22:08 |
| xdanger | O how nice.... I forgot my ibook's charger at home... went to my parents for a long weekend.. | 22:09 |
| @rizen | crap | 22:09 |
| @rizen | is there an apple store nearby? | 22:09 |
| xdanger | no.. | 22:17 |
| xdanger | It's a very small town.. about 7k residents.. | 22:17 |
| xdanger | I was going to work tommorow, but that's kinda hard with out my computes,ssh-keys,documents etc... | 22:18 |
| ckotil | hrm the sorting done by the cs, isnt what i had in mind. | 22:21 |
| xdanger | tomorrow even.. | 22:21 |
| ckotil | i swore i saw an asset that had a radio button you could put to yes or no to reverse sort. | 22:21 |
| ckotil | maybe i was dreaming. | 22:21 |
| @rizen | folder has one for sorting alphabetically | 23:02 |
| @rizen | but not reverse | 23:02 |
| ckotil | yah. | 23:10 |
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| cap10morgan | Does the "Encrypt content" setting give up trying to redirect to https:// after a few tries and just show the page unencrypted? | 23:26 |
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| cap10morgan | actually, it doesn't seem to be doing anything at all? was the Encrypt content setting disabled for sites running in the WRE? | 23:52 |
| @rizen | encrypt content forces the url in the nav | 23:57 |
| @rizen | to use https | 23:57 |
| @rizen | but that's all it does | 23:57 |
| --- Day changed Fri Apr 13 2007 | ||
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| @preaction | does anyone know of a problem with instances of isSerial workflows? i think i found a bug | 00:46 |
| @rizen | what's the problem | 00:46 |
| @preaction | lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Instance.pm line 276 -- it looks to be trying to find the workflowId instead of the instanceId to find if this is the oldest instance of the instance (the one that should be run) | 00:47 |
| @preaction | at least, i keep trying to run an instance of an isSerial workflow from the admin console, and no matter what it returns "waiting" because of that line | 00:48 |
| @rizen | yeah, it should only run the oldest instance of a given workflow type | 00:49 |
| @rizen | looking at code | 00:49 |
| @preaction | so it should get the instanceId of the oldest one, and only run if that matches the current instance | 00:49 |
| @rizen | correct | 00:50 |
| @rizen | that query probably should have a "limit 1" | 00:50 |
| @rizen | attached to the end of it | 00:50 |
| @rizen | but other than that, it looks good | 00:50 |
| @rizen | don't try to check anything in right now though, i'm reorging the svn repo | 00:51 |
| @preaction | k | 00:51 |
| @preaction | select instanceId from WorkflowInstance where workflowId=? order by runningSince <- that's my new query | 00:51 |
| @rizen | oh wait | 00:52 |
| @rizen | i see what you're saying | 00:52 |
| @rizen | yeah, the code is screwed up | 00:52 |
| @rizen | cuz the if | 00:53 |
| @rizen | should also use $self->getId | 00:53 |
| @preaction | yeah, that too | 00:53 |
| @rizen | rather than $workflow->getId | 00:53 |
| @rizen | i'll have the repo fixed in a few minutes | 00:53 |
| @preaction | k | 00:53 |
| @rizen | but you'll need to check out from svn again before you can commit | 00:53 |
| @rizen | because the pathing is going to be different | 00:53 |
| @preaction | ok, np | 00:57 |
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| @preaction | along with the subversion hosting, is webgui.org going to provide other forge-like things? bug forums, project management, site hosting perhaps? | 02:23 |
| @rizen | maybe...one step at a time | 02:27 |
| @rizen | i would like to get to that point eventually | 02:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | uhm, so what's the new URL for doing a svn checkout? | 02:35 |
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| @preaction | svn co https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI <- iirc | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, preaction! | 02:36 |
| @preaction | before we get to those other forge-like things, i think the project manager should get some new features (like built-in bug tracking, version/milestones tracking, and other things like launchpad.net has) | 02:37 |
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| +perlDreamer | how 'bout we just fix all the bugs first? | 02:42 |
| @preaction | you... trying to keep us focused and on-track... | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | yes... | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | and I have a whole slew of RFEs to check in ;) | 02:43 |
| @preaction | as in new code? word | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | there is a tertiary reason | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | I read this today | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/04/yahoo_open_sour_1.html | 02:43 |
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| +perlDreamer | Here's my favorite quote from it: | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | "Therefore, CMSs are moving toward competing not on features, but | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | >on ease of use, aesthetics, support, and other dimensions [this is | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | >classic Clay Christensen innovation curve stuff -- as all products | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | >begin to meet customers basic needs, they must compete on other | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | >dimensions of performance]" | 02:44 |
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| SDuensin | YES! I think I finally have all my Apaches playing nicely together! | 03:43 |
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| * PedersenMJ wavies. | 05:10 | |
| SDuensin | hey PedersenMJ | 05:10 |
| PedersenMJ | How's it going? | 05:10 |
| SDuensin | Making good progress tonight! Still killing WebGUI, but I think I know why. | 05:10 |
| SDuensin | Pretty sure in my database my site name is "www.duensing.com" and in DNS it's "new.duensing.com". Breaks mod_proxy when it tries to go to the wrong IP. | 05:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Poor WG. Getting killed, resurrected, and killed again, for no good reason. Poor little wg. | 05:12 |
| SDuensin | It needs to toughen up! Quit being such a wimp! | 05:12 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 05:12 |
| SDuensin | I've been working on my host all evening. I think I finally have all three instances of Apache playing nicely together with the management software they use. | 05:12 |
| PedersenMJ | Gah. You sound like my sister. And no, that is *not* a compliment. | 05:13 |
| SDuensin | :-P | 05:13 |
| PedersenMJ | My sister, btw, is a teacher. Elementary Ed. And her response to the kids who get picked on? They need to learn to stand up for themselves. So she won't do anything to intervene. | 05:14 |
| SDuensin | This dual modperl/modproxy setup is going to kill me. | 05:14 |
| PedersenMJ | I never did that setup myself. Mine is a single Apache instance. | 05:15 |
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| SDuensin | They recommend the WRE, I run the WRE. :-) | 05:15 |
| SDuensin | Ok, damn. Something else is causing the problem. The database says "new.duensing.com" just like it should. | 05:16 |
| PedersenMJ | I'll run the WRE for one reason only: Its easier. I had need of something in particular (damned if I can remember what it was, though), which precluded my using the WRE, so I made it work by hand. | 05:16 |
| SDuensin | So any idea why one of my three sites does this? | 05:17 |
| SDuensin | Bad Gateway | 05:17 |
| SDuensin | The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server. | 05:17 |
| SDuensin | The other two work. | 05:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Maybe it just doesn't like the brand of computer it's runing on? | 05:17 |
| SDuensin | Worked before I backed it up and restored it. | 05:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Seriously, I'd check the upstream, wherever that might be. Sounds like it doesn't know how to respond to the request it's being given (specifically, check the error.log there). | 05:20 |
| SDuensin | The log has the IP for "www" in it, not "new". | 05:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Does the upstream know about www though? | 05:22 |
| SDuensin | The other odd thing is that when it fails, Apache dies! | 05:23 |
| PedersenMJ | Ewww. | 05:23 |
| SDuensin | Log says: | 05:24 |
| SDuensin | [Thu Apr 12 22:19:58 2007] [error] (111)Connection refused: proxy: HTTP: attempt to connect to 64.91.249.237:82 (new.duensing.com) failed | 05:24 |
| SDuensin | [Thu Apr 12 22:20:03 2007] [notice] caught SIGTERM, shutting down | 05:24 |
| SDuensin | 64.91.249.237 isn't new.duensing.com. It's www.duensing.com. | 05:25 |
| SDuensin | Ok, so DNS is screwed up. Hmm. | 05:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Check that server, and see what it says for which name gets which ip address? Most reliable method is usually to ping. | 05:27 |
| SDuensin | Yea. that server is wrong. | 05:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Check /etc/hosts then? | 05:28 |
| SDuensin | Yea. I gotta find it in the control panel so things stay in sync. | 05:29 |
| SDuensin | I've already trashed this server once. Don't want to ask them to install it again. :-) | 05:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, but trashing the server is fun! :) | 05:30 |
| SDuensin | Can I flush my DNS cache on Linux? | 05:36 |
| PedersenMJ | I've never had to try, honestly. I don't know how. | 05:37 |
| SDuensin | Same here. :-) | 05:37 |
| SDuensin | OS X is "lookupd -flushcache" | 05:37 |
| PedersenMJ | The only suggestion I would have would be to verify that nslookup gives you the right results, and then restart Apache. | 05:37 |
| SDuensin | Ok, now the dumb control panel says Apache is down. ps says otherwise. | 05:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, the control panel could be a bit behind the times. Or maybe it's watching for when Apache is actually accepting connections. | 05:40 |
| SDuensin | OpenDNS knows who I am. | 05:42 |
| SDuensin | Screw it. "reboot" fixes things. | 05:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Usually. Unless it's Windows, in which case it only probably does :) | 05:46 |
| SDuensin | It's a VM with CentOS4 in it. | 05:47 |
| PedersenMJ | So, where you parking that, and how much is it costing you? | 05:48 |
| SDuensin | LiquidWeb. $100 a month. | 05:48 |
| SDuensin | I had the $60 package, but it ran out of RAM as soon as I started WebGUI. | 05:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Dang. Too much for me. I pay $100/month for business class. Drawback: I'm responsible for my own servers. Advantage: I'm responsible for my own servers :) | 05:49 |
| SDuensin | Kinda the same here. It's my box. I'm root. I just don't have to maintain it. And they have far more bandwidth than I could ever hope to have. | 05:50 |
| PedersenMJ | True, but I'm saving the broadband bill, basically. I pay $100/month for my broadband, *and* for ability to host my own servers. To me, it's worth it. | 05:52 |
| SDuensin | I can't get enough bandwidth where I'm at to be a decent host. | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, I worry about that myself. So, I just make sure I'm too boring to slashdot or digg :) | 05:55 |
| SDuensin | Gotta run - night bud. | 06:08 |
| PedersenMJ | g'night, cya l8r | 06:10 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning. | 15:47 |
| AMH_bob | Good morning! | 15:48 |
| SDuensin | Hey AMH_bob. | 15:48 |
| AMH_bob | I was about to get really sad about my WebGUI progress.... | 15:48 |
| AMH_bob | but, a small progress has been made and it's looking good again | 15:49 |
| AMH_bob | How was your coffee this morning? | 15:49 |
| SDuensin | Making tea today. Working from home. :-) | 15:51 |
| SDuensin | My WebGUI progress has been mixed lately as well. Dang WRE keeps blowing up on me. | 15:52 |
| AMH_bob | Haha, I have not had that problem; somebody else made some virtual machines we can work on. | 15:53 |
| AMH_bob | I'm just doing development | 15:53 |
| SDuensin | I'd like to get far enough to do development. :-/ | 15:53 |
| AMH_bob | :P Wait until someone trough's you in without documentation and makes you do it :P | 15:54 |
| AMH_bob | But it's a lot of fun when things start working right! | 15:55 |
| AMH_bob | (Thank god for those beautiful moments when it works right!) | 15:55 |
| SDuensin | I'm waiting for that moment. Maybe later today. | 15:56 |
| AMH_bob | Now I'm gonna start on the i18n stuff - that has to be done too. I'll catch ya later! | 15:57 |
| SDuensin | See ya! | 15:58 |
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| @rizen | AMH_bob: how's the project progressing overall? | 16:35 |
| SDuensin | Morning, rizen. | 16:35 |
| @rizen | howdy | 16:36 |
| SDuensin | Ever have Apache run out of semaphore-arrays? | 16:36 |
| @rizen | yup | 16:36 |
| SDuensin | What'd I do wrong to cause it? | 16:36 |
| AMH_bob | Hi rizen, We're making progress | 16:36 |
| @rizen | generally speaking you only run out of semaphores if your apache processes are being killed or are crashing | 16:37 |
| AMH_bob | AMH_mari has made a perl template converter to convert our existing templates | 16:37 |
| SDuensin | Crashing would cover it. :-/ | 16:38 |
| AMH_bob | our Designer is getting into making new templates | 16:38 |
| @rizen | you should know that the restart command in wremonitor cleans up semaphores | 16:38 |
| AMH_bob | I'm working on template selection | 16:38 |
| SDuensin | The WRE mod_proxy server keeps blowing up for some odd reason. | 16:38 |
| @rizen | so you could use that if you need to | 16:38 |
| SDuensin | That's helpful to know. | 16:38 |
| @rizen | AMH_bob. glad to hear it | 16:38 |
| @rizen | that's cool that your templates were standard enough | 16:39 |
| @rizen | that you could use a perl script to convert them | 16:39 |
| AMH_bob | We're running on Virtual Machines for development; | 16:39 |
| @rizen | like VMWare? | 16:39 |
| AMH_bob | our WebGUI server still has to be optimized, but thats not a priority yet | 16:39 |
| AMH_bob | yep VMWare machines running fedora core 6 | 16:40 |
| @rizen | sweet | 16:40 |
| @rizen | i use a VMWare serverfarm for WRE development and builds | 16:40 |
| AMH_bob | yep, we're rolling along just nicely | 16:40 |
| @rizen | it's just easier to work on lots of os's | 16:40 |
| @rizen | but i can imagine that it would also be good for creating contained dev environments | 16:41 |
| AMH_bob | cool, they sure save a lot of time configuring - you just get out a copy or backup and your up in no time! | 16:41 |
| @rizen | each of our employee's gets high end laptops so they can run their own environment right on their local machine | 16:41 |
| @rizen | true enough | 16:42 |
| AMH_bob | I'm acutually running a fedora workstation in a VM machine and WebGUI in another, on the same machine | 16:43 |
| AMH_bob | (I'm really happy I have a high end laptop too) | 16:43 |
| @rizen | some of our devs do that too. our laptops are all mac, but some of our devs prefer to do their dev work on ubuntu or RHEL so they use parallels for that | 16:44 |
| SDuensin | MACK! | 16:44 |
| * SDuensin cheers! | 16:44 | |
| @rizen | SD, are you a mac user? | 16:44 |
| AMH_bob | My home machine is a Mac and my test laptop is an Ubuntu machine | 16:44 |
| SDuensin | On a MacBook Pro right now. :-) | 16:44 |
| AMH_bob | Mac rocks! | 16:45 |
| @rizen | AMH_bob, what platform will you deploy on? | 16:45 |
| AMH_bob | probably Fedora Core 6 | 16:46 |
| AMH_bob | About the wiki on the site... it seems a bit unorganized... | 16:47 |
| @rizen | i'm afraid i can't allow you to use FC6 | 16:47 |
| AMH_bob | eh? | 16:47 |
| @rizen | just kidding | 16:47 |
| @rizen | =) | 16:47 |
| AMH_bob | :sigh: | 16:47 |
| @rizen | don't you think that wiki's in general a disorganized? | 16:48 |
| ckotil | media wiki is organized as long as the content manager knows what they are doing | 16:49 |
| ckotil | thats my stab at the wiki asset. | 16:49 |
| SDuensin | Hey ckotil | 16:50 |
| AMH_bob | not necessarily, just chuck a general structured table of contents on the front and let people fill in the blanks. | 16:50 |
| ckotil | hello | 16:50 |
| AMH_bob | a moderator can keep an eye on the toc | 16:50 |
| @rizen | there's no reason someone can't create a TOC | 16:50 |
| @rizen | just no one has | 16:50 |
| @rizen | if they did I'd link to it from the front page | 16:51 |
| AMH_bob | :D | 16:52 |
| AMH_bob | I'll have a go at it to night... | 16:52 |
| AMH_bob | although I don't have enough rights for it | 16:53 |
| AMH_bob | could you bump me up? | 16:53 |
| AMH_bob | webgui user: rbroen | 16:53 |
| AMH_bob | never mind, the toc is there, but not the first page from the menu | 16:55 |
| AMH_bob | that's kinda odd - isn't it? | 16:55 |
| AMH_bob | Boy, that took 10 weeks more to find than you would expect! | 16:56 |
| ckotil | url? | 16:56 |
| AMH_bob | http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/webgui-installation-table-of-contents | 16:57 |
| @rizen | that's just for that one section though | 16:57 |
| ckotil | ah. | 16:57 |
| @rizen | that's the TOC for installation | 16:57 |
| @rizen | AMH_bob...you don't need any special privs to add a page to the wiki | 16:57 |
| AMH_bob | ok, so back on topic.... a toc for the wiki | 16:58 |
| @rizen | just search for the page you're looking for, and if you don't find it, you'll be prompted to add it | 16:58 |
| AMH_bob | Ok, I'll try and start a gereral TOC tonight (tonight starts in 4 hours over here...) | 16:59 |
| @rizen | ok | 16:59 |
| @rizen | well i gotta go peeps | 17:00 |
| @rizen | nice talking with you AMH_bob | 17:00 |
| @rizen | and yes, the rest of you are chopped liver | 17:00 |
| SDuensin | :-P | 17:00 |
| AMH_bob | :P Have a good one! | 17:00 |
| AMH_bob | bye | 17:00 |
| * SDuensin is reinstalling the WRE *again*. | 17:00 | |
| +MrHairgrease | does anyone know if it's possible to use a mysql 4.1 client | 17:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | to talk to a mysql 5 server? | 17:08 |
| SDuensin | Maybe. Probably need to use old passwords on the server. | 17:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | ie. complie dbd::mysql against that client | 17:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | using its mysql_config that is | 17:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | the old pw stuff is mysql 3- problem | 17:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | Is anybody already using the xeyes macro | 17:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | we've installed it on our corporate intranet | 17:37 |
| SDuensin | hehehe | 17:38 |
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| +MrHairgrease | rizedn | 18:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | rizen | 18:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | do you have any idea what's wrong if a site you've just transfered to another apache just shows a blank screen? | 18:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | nothing in the logs | 18:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | just one entry in the acces log | 18:14 |
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| +perlDreamer | ckotil: try assetData.title DESC | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | eh, I mean "assetData.title DESC" | 19:27 |
| ckotil | OK | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | and if DESC doesn't work, invert it. I'm forever forgetting what the default is | 19:37 |
| ckotil | works perfectly | 19:39 |
| ckotil | thank you. | 19:40 |
| ckotil | this litle hack will be fine until my rfe gets enough karma | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | has your RFE been rated? | 19:40 |
| ckotil | http://globalnoc.iu.edu/nlr/support/weekly-reporting/l1--weekly-reports.html | 19:40 |
| ckotil | not sure. | 19:40 |
| ckotil | i need this functionality for that page | 19:40 |
| ckotil | my service desk uplaods weekly reports, and they dread manually changing the rank | 19:41 |
| ckotil | lamerz. | 19:41 |
| ckotil | buncha lamerz.* | 19:41 |
| +perlDreamer | well, here's the story | 19:42 |
| +perlDreamer | rated RFEs are approved to be added | 19:42 |
| +perlDreamer | the highest ranked RFE gets built by Plain Black | 19:42 |
| ckotil | ok, it has been rated. | 19:42 |
| ckotil | a good rating too. seems 1:1 | 19:42 |
| ckotil | or however that works | 19:42 |
| +perlDreamer | but any approved RFE can be added to wG by someone with commit access | 19:42 |
| +perlDreamer | like me, or MrHairGrease, etc. | 19:43 |
| +perlDreamer | if you got a 1:1 rating, that's awesome | 19:43 |
| ckotil | ;] | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | attach the patch to the RFE and I'll talk to JT about adding it in for 7.4 | 19:44 |
| ckotil | eh, its going to take a lot more than simply appending DESC to the table column, it will need a select box and all that jazz in the display tab | 19:45 |
| ckotil | beyond my skills | 19:45 |
| +perlDreamer | no way | 19:45 |
| +perlDreamer | here's how to add the select box | 19:45 |
| +perlDreamer | find sub definition in Folder.pm | 19:45 |
| ckotil | heh, ok ok. ill give it a shot | 19:46 |
| +perlDreamer | figure out which tab it goes in (Display) | 19:46 |
| ckotil | and i see how to check to see if the box is selected or not. | 19:46 |
| +perlDreamer | right. | 19:46 |
| ckotil | if ($self->get("sortAlphabetically")); so if i name the box reverseSort, i would get("reverseSort")); | 19:46 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 19:46 |
| ckotil | can i have multiple %rules then? | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 19:47 |
| ckotil | ok good deal | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | also, if you want to go nuts, you could add multiple sort criteria | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | dateUpdated | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | dateCommitted | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | title | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | or the default, which is lineage (order added) | 19:47 |
| ckotil | yah, thats how it works in the cs asset | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, then you could copy it wholesale! | 19:47 |
| ckotil | heh | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | once you get the API, you can build incredible things really quickly | 19:48 |
| cap10morgan | what's the best way to determine which asset revision is the current one (in a sql report)? | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | assetData.revisionDate=(SELECT max(revisionDate) from assetData where assetData.assetId=asset.assetId) | 19:49 |
| cap10morgan | perlDreamer: yuck, subqueries. ;) ok, thanks, i'll try that. | 19:49 |
| +perlDreamer | cap10morgan: if you can figure out a different way to do it, then you'll be our new wG hero. | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | no one likes the subqueries | 19:50 |
| cap10morgan | perlDreamer: haha | 19:50 |
| cap10morgan | i'm spending my time on that AssetReport asset instead | 19:50 |
| cap10morgan | i hate sql reports on the webgui database | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | they're not fun, that's for sure | 19:51 |
| cap10morgan | really, subqueries would be sweet if mysql lifted even a pinky to do basic optimization of them | 19:54 |
| +perlDreamer | you aren't a postgresql evangelist, are you? | 19:55 |
| cap10morgan | it seems to treat them all as dependent subqueries, when really it should just be running the majority of them once, storing the result in a static list somewhere, and then running a regular query using that list | 19:56 |
| cap10morgan | but it doesn't... | 19:56 |
| cap10morgan | perlDreamer: never used it :) | 20:03 |
| cap10morgan | I use and like MySQL, I just have some pet peeves w/ it. | 20:03 |
| cap10morgan | On a totally unrelated topic: Do the collab systems in v.7 no longer have a notion of a moderator? | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I think they do... Maybe it's more of a commit workflow, though | 20:05 |
| cap10morgan | well, the thing i really need is for a group to be allowed to edit any post | 20:06 |
| cap10morgan | but not the CS asset itself | 20:06 |
| +perlDreamer | It can be done. | 20:07 |
| +perlDreamer | That's how JT set me up to close bugs on the PB bug board. | 20:07 |
| +perlDreamer | but I don't know how to do it | 20:07 |
| cap10morgan | perlDreamer: ok, i'll keep digging. thanks! | 20:08 |
| ckotil | pd: got it. it was pretty easy to add the select box. now i need to add the right i8ln stuff | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | i18n is pretty easy too | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | it's just a hash | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | there's also a test to make sure the i18n is set up correctly, if you have problems with it | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | and the last step will be to add it to the Help | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | and of course, the real question is "Who will make the 4000th commit to WebGUI?" | 20:28 |
| ckotil | i just copied and pasted around in the Folder i18n file | 20:49 |
| ckotil | works fine. | 20:49 |
| ckotil | now that i have this working, im going back to try to have a drop down box | 20:49 |
| ckotil | ripping it from the cs asset, but its giving me this error about not being able to find object getContentLastModified | 20:49 |
| ckotil | im gonna check to see what that is exactly | 20:50 |
| ckotil | well i was unable to straight rip off the drop down box from the cs assets properties hash | 20:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | that error is usually a perl syntax error | 21:01 |
| ckotil | =] got the drop down | 21:13 |
| ckotil | ill post both versions to the rfe | 21:13 |
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| --- Day changed Sat Apr 14 2007 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | You're turning into a monster, ckotil | 00:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | evening, SDuensin | 05:20 |
| SDuensin | Hello perlDreamer | 05:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I spent all day writing API tests for the Assets. | 05:30 |
| +perlDreamer | Found 4 bugs | 05:30 |
| +perlDreamer | make that 5 bugs | 05:33 |
| +perlDreamer | this last bug is kind of out there | 05:34 |
| +perlDreamer | there's about a 1 in 1 million chance of hitting it | 05:35 |
| SDuensin | Rock on. | 05:47 |
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| GlennL | Hi folks - I'm new to this channel (actually I'm new to IRC) | 11:27 |
| pjesi | hi GlennL | 11:30 |
| GlennL | Hi there - sorry my IRC client didn't ring when you answered | 12:00 |
| GlennL | I'm using Miranda | 12:00 |
| GlennL | Sorry I have to go now - I hope to be back again soon | 12:04 |
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| pjesi | :-) | 12:12 |
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| wgGuest09 | I have never posted on an IRC so may be totally out of order, but may I ask a question about webgui? | 20:28 |
| Radix__ | Sure.. ask away.. just make sure you stick around for an answer :) | 20:30 |
| Radix__ | we're all on different time zones on here.. so there's usually someone around, but you may need to wait a while for someone who can actually answer it! | 20:30 |
| wgGuest09 | I hope it is simple. I understand a folder and page layout but what is dashboard? | 20:31 |
| Radix__ | Hmm.. a dashboard is a sort of dynamic object that can contain many other objects | 20:32 |
| pjesi | I have never used it nor understood it | 20:32 |
| Radix__ | It's used for portals generally | 20:33 |
| Radix__ | imagine it as a customisable page | 20:33 |
| Radix__ | you can add shortcuts to other assets to a dashboard and the user can then select from those assets for their own page | 20:33 |
| Radix__ | We use it at our company for a front page, the user can select different articles and links based on their job roles | 20:34 |
| pjesi | on the intranet? | 20:34 |
| Radix__ | one user might have one customised layout, another user might have a totally different oe | 20:34 |
| Radix__ | one | 20:34 |
| Radix__ | yeah | 20:34 |
| Radix__ | it's a tricky one to explain really | 20:35 |
| wgGuest09 | gotcha, so i could run a website using webgui and never use a dashboard asset. | 20:35 |
| Radix__ | sure, most people don't ;) | 20:35 |
| pjesi | yes | 20:35 |
| Radix__ | I didn't understand it myself until I had it shown to me at the WUC | 20:35 |
| wgGuest09 | thanks very much. i need to learn how to register and use this irc i guess. | 20:36 |
| Radix__ | grab an irc client, and jump on freenode #webgui :) | 20:36 |
| Radix__ | I use xchat myself, but ymmv | 20:36 |
| pjesi | konversation here :) | 20:36 |
| pjesi | and irssi | 20:36 |
| Radix__ | yup.. there's many options for irc these days ;) | 20:37 |
| pjesi | true | 20:37 |
| pjesi | most of my friends think that mIRC and IRC is the same, just like IE and WWW :-) | 20:38 |
| Radix__ | You're welcome to ask as many questions about stuff on irc.. only request we make is that if we help you understand something better in Webgui then write a wiki article to help others :) | 20:38 |
| Radix__ | pjesi: yeah, hate that personally.. which is why I use firefox and xchat ;) | 20:39 |
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| +Radix_ | Anyway.. my job here is done.. time to head off to bed.. nite ;) | 20:41 |
| pjesi | nite | 20:42 |
| pjesi | still sunny over here :) | 20:42 |
| nuba | 'night | 20:43 |
| wgGuest09 | thanks again and nie radix | 20:43 |
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| +perlDreamer | An early OSCON schedule has been published | 03:05 |
| +perlDreamer | w00t! | 03:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, vayde, you guys available for a core API talk? | 05:51 |
| @preaction | playing DDR, can't | 05:51 |
| @vayde | not right now. rebuilding my system Ubuntu Feisty | 05:52 |
| @vayde | preaction, btw skype runs perfect under feisty | 05:52 |
| @preaction | about damn time | 05:52 |
| +perlDreamer | well, I admire your priorities. Doing important stuff instead of goofing off like me. | 05:52 |
| SDuensin | Hey gang. | 05:54 |
| @vayde | Hey, either I have to make this box work for everything, or JT is gonna make me use a mac | 05:54 |
| SDuensin | MACK! YEA! | 05:54 |
| @preaction | you're already going to be made to use a mac | 05:54 |
| @vayde | bleck | 05:54 |
| @vayde | We hates it to pieces | 05:54 |
| +perlDreamer | It's better than WIndows... | 05:54 |
| @preaction | there's a reason I don't have ubuntu on this thing | 05:55 |
| @vayde | that's not saying much | 05:55 |
| @preaction | because iirc Fiesty supports intel macs 100% | 05:55 |
| @preaction | i almost got edgy to work completely | 05:55 |
| @vayde | I hope Feisty goes well for you. | 05:56 |
| @vayde | I'm not gonna use that 'thing' if I don't have to. It's sluggish and unresponsive compared with my Ubuntu | 05:56 |
| SDuensin | Anybody ever have their WRE die for no good reason? I keep getting "[notice] SIGTERM received" and Apache dies. | 05:56 |
| +perlDreamer | that could be Apache::SizeLimit kicking in | 05:57 |
| SDuensin | Oh? | 05:57 |
| SDuensin | Teach me, Obi Wan. | 05:58 |
| @vayde | He's more of a Qui-Gon | 05:58 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 05:58 |
| +perlDreamer | Apache::SizeLimit is used to prevent your apache kids from leaking memory | 05:58 |
| +perlDreamer | when they get too big, then they get reaped | 05:58 |
| SDuensin | Yea, but *all* of them? | 05:58 |
| SDuensin | Where is that setting? | 05:59 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't use the WRE, but it would be in httpd.conf | 05:59 |
| SDuensin | k | 05:59 |
| +perlDreamer | it should only kill one of them, AFAIK | 05:59 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: Apache::SizeLimit? | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: help | 06:00 |
| perlbot | (fact) : tell (who) about (what) : (what) > (who) : learn (what) as (info) : relearn (fact) as (info) : phone (phone #) : shorten (url) : shorten it : search (keyword) : cpan (module) : docs (module) : perldoc -f (function) : jargon (term) : math (expr): fortune : flip : host (type) (record) : rot13 (text) : roll (die) : tempconv (temp) : scramble (foo) : 8ball (question) : slap (who) : diss (who) : top/bottom (number) karma : geoip (ip) | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: cpan Apache::SizeLimit | 06:00 |
| perlbot | Documentation for 'Apache::SizeLimit' can be found here: http://xrl.us/vri2 | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | there you go, SDuensin | 06:00 |
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| SDuensin | Thanks. | 06:01 |
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| @vayde | Halleleuja! I have a mouse that does what I ask it to do again! | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought Ubuntu was supposed to be super easy to install? | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I was going to recommend it to my brother-in-law | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | He's an exterminator | 06:05 |
| @vayde | It is. I just had to load in my super cool ultra funky mouse settings | 06:05 |
| @vayde | Now my trackpad responds with the reflexes of a ninja | 06:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I see | 06:06 |
| @vayde | Whaaa! | 06:06 |
| +perlDreamer | You sound like you tried to use setRank to really set a rank | 06:06 |
| +perlDreamer | and found out otherwise | 06:07 |
| @vayde | 1440 pixels to the right in just a flick of the thumb | 06:07 |
| SDuensin | My site still kills the server. :-/ | 06:13 |
| SDuensin | When it dies, I see this in PS: | 06:14 |
| SDuensin | /bin/bash /data/wre/sbin/rc.webgui restartweb | 06:14 |
| +perlDreamer | does it happen at the same time each day/week? | 06:15 |
| +perlDreamer | it looks like some script is doing it | 06:16 |
| +perlDreamer | like log rotation | 06:16 |
| +perlDreamer | check your cron logs | 06:16 |
| SDuensin | No, it happens when I hit the site. | 06:20 |
| +perlDreamer | every time you hit the site? | 06:20 |
| SDuensin | Log rotation kills the server? | 06:21 |
| +perlDreamer | it has to | 06:21 |
| +perlDreamer | the server holds an file descriptor to the log file | 06:21 |
| +perlDreamer | when it gets rotated, the server will write to a high offset instead of starting over at the beginning | 06:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | is there anything interesting in your other logfiles? | 06:22 |
| +perlDreamer | /var/log/messages | 06:22 |
| +perlDreamer | and whereever the WRE keeps the apache logs? | 06:22 |
| SDuensin | Nope. | 06:22 |
| +perlDreamer | weird | 06:23 |
| +perlDreamer | which OS? | 06:23 |
| SDuensin | My cron entries for WRE look like on the wiki. | 06:23 |
| SDuensin | Centos4 | 06:23 |
| +perlDreamer | you can't do better than that | 06:23 |
| SDuensin | Can't do other than that either. :-) | 06:24 |
| SDuensin | That's what my host uses. | 06:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | man | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I seem to be accumulating karma at an exponentially increasing rate | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I wonder if there's a karma bug? | 06:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | Those fly moves must be messing with your connection, preaction | 06:31 |
| Hinrik | his connection craps out on him every time a fly moves? | 06:31 |
| +perlDreamer | He's playing DDR | 06:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Any big jump or stamp probably wiggles some loose wire and then his connection gets dropped. | 06:32 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning. | 15:47 |
| ckotil | hello | 16:07 |
| pjesi | hi | 16:07 |
| * SDuensin caught SIGTERM | 16:15 | |
| SDuensin | Bane of my existence. | 16:15 |
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| bopbop | good morning | 16:42 |
| SDuensin | Hey bopbop | 16:47 |
| bopbop | howdy | 16:47 |
| AMH_bob | Good morning. | 16:47 |
| SDuensin | Afternoon, AMH_bob. :-) | 16:48 |
| AMH_bob | It's beautiful weather outside, nice and warm. But when I see your name I immediately crave for a hot cup of coffee | 16:51 |
| AMH_bob | Have you had your? | 16:51 |
| SDuensin | hehehe | 16:52 |
| SDuensin | Got it with me now. :-) | 16:52 |
| AMH_bob | Just got mine too! :-P | 16:53 |
| AMH_bob | Have a nice day at work! | 16:53 |
| SDuensin | Wheeee | 16:55 |
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| cap10morgan | Is there such a thing as regional WebGUI user groups? | 21:17 |
| cap10morgan | I'd love to try and start a Denver, CO, USA one... :) | 21:17 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: you better op Haaarg so that he can boot people when they get unruly | 23:07 |
| pjesi | what is unruly? | 23:15 |
| Hinrik | you are | 23:16 |
| xdanger | uu, tinymce works with the webkit nightly builds, and they seem to be stable too ;) | 23:17 |
| +perlDreamer | you know, unruly | 23:22 |
| +perlDreamer | Saying that WebGUI sucks, pestering people. being argumentative | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | stuff like that | 23:23 |
| pjesi | sounds like someone just arrived from 4chan | 23:23 |
| pjesi | :) | 23:23 |
| Hinrik | 4chan hates webgui? | 23:23 |
| pjesi | srsly? | 23:24 |
| pjesi | no Im just kidding | 23:24 |
| Hinrik | I see | 23:24 |
| pjesi | unruly just reminds me of 4chan | 23:24 |
| Hinrik | hehe | 23:24 |
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| * vayde is being unruly, but his ninja skills prevent anyone from noticing | 23:48 | |
| +perlDreamer | who said that? | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Tue Apr 17 2007 | ||
| +perlDreamer | bummer about the Content manager's guide | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | I hope y'all get the issues resolved quickly | 00:12 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o Haaarg] by ChanServ | 00:40 | |
| @vayde | Ahh So! I am no longer the FNG | 00:42 |
| -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] | 00:59 | |
| cap10morgan | We just deployed our first wG7 site!! | 01:09 |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] | 01:10 | |
| cap10morgan | Let the new era begin! | 01:10 |
| * cap10morgan breaks a bottle of champagne across WebGUI 7's bow | 01:10 | |
| @preaction | woot! | 01:11 |
| cap10morgan | using the config api, how do you add to an array that's in a hash? | 01:58 |
| cap10morgan | (specifically the "None" array in the "workflowActivities" hash) | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | would a paste of the original WebGUI.conf file help with that? | 02:07 |
| +perlDreamer | actually, you should have a copy of that in WebGUI.conf.original | 02:07 |
| cap10morgan | only if it shows how to do this w/ the API | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, you mean like via $session->config? | 02:15 |
| cap10morgan | yes, exactly | 02:15 |
| +perlDreamer | at that point, it's just perl data structures | 02:15 |
| +perlDreamer | put a new key onto the hash, make the value an array ref | 02:16 |
| +perlDreamer | there are examples in t/Session/Config.t | 02:16 |
| cap10morgan | ok, cool, thanks | 02:16 |
| +perlDreamer | one thing to keep in mind is that the API will overwrite your config file, so you may want to keep a backup of the original, just in case. | 02:18 |
| cap10morgan | yep | 02:19 |
| cap10morgan | ah, it didn't like that i was using the same array ref that i just got from the config object | 02:21 |
| cap10morgan | a little copy to a local array, and voila | 02:21 |
| cap10morgan | :) | 02:21 |
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| +Radix-wrk | Morning all | 04:19 |
| SDuensin | Hi Radix-wrk | 04:37 |
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| PedersenMJ | g'd evening :) | 05:54 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #07:04 * perlDreamer rejoices at the return of snapcount's crickets | 05:56 | |
| +perlDreamer | the trout get hungry after all that fighting | 07:05 |
| * PedersenMJ wonders if it's against the law to slap with halibut? | 07:07 | |
| +perlDreamer | too flaky | 07:07 |
| +perlDreamer | you need a good, firm fish | 07:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, when the halibut is whole, it's definitely a firm fish. | 07:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Tuna would be too big, definitely. So they're right out. | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | in that case, halibut is okay by me | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: help | 07:10 |
| perlbot | (fact) : tell (who) about (what) : (what) > (who) : learn (what) as (info) : relearn (fact) as (info) : phone (phone #) : shorten (url) : shorten it : search (keyword) : cpan (module) : docs (module) : perldoc -f (function) : jargon (term) : math (expr): fortune : flip : host (type) (record) : rot13 (text) : roll (die) : tempconv (temp) : scramble (foo) : 8ball (question) : slap (who) : diss (who) : top/bottom (number) karma : geoip (ip) | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: math 252/6 | 07:10 |
| perlbot | 42 | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot help slap | 07:13 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbog: help slap | 07:13 |
| +perlDreamer | stupid broken WebGUI ORM! | 07:17 |
| +perlDreamer | the API won't let me create a deep asset, so I have to force it through the DB | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | but then the object isn't updated, and that's what's used by addChild | 07:20 |
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| @preaction | perlDreamer: wait, what? | 07:39 |
| +perlDreamer | recently I've been testing AssetLineage, from the API | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I need to cover the condition in addChild where if you try to create an Asset that's more than 42 levels deep, it creates a sibling instead | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | but the API won't let you shove an arbitrary lineage into an Asset | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | so I crowbar'ed it via the database | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | that doesn't update the object, and the object is what is used to instantiate the child | 07:41 |
| @preaction | you can't test by creating 42 levels yourself? | 07:41 |
| +perlDreamer | you could... | 07:41 |
| +perlDreamer | but I'm practicing virtue #1 this week | 07:41 |
| @preaction | ? | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | laziness | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | impatience | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | hubris | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | the 3 perl virtues | 07:42 |
| @preaction | for (1..41) { $lineage[$_-1]->addChild($properties); } # <-- tee hee | 07:42 |
| @preaction | er... $lineage[$_] = $lineage[$_-1]->addChild | 07:43 |
| +perlDreamer | that's true, I hadn't thought about looping | 07:43 |
| +perlDreamer | in any case, wG's ORM is lacking | 07:43 |
| @preaction | ORM? | 07:43 |
| +perlDreamer | Object Relational Mapping | 07:43 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be nice if it made sure that the object was updated with the latest db values before doing stuff | 07:44 |
| +perlDreamer | kind of like a smart get | 07:44 |
| @preaction | so you get a stale cache? | 07:45 |
| +perlDreamer | stale object, yes. | 07:45 |
| +perlDreamer | but I'm breaking encapsulation with my original approach in any case | 07:45 |
| +perlDreamer | here's more about the virtues | 07:46 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.netropolis.org/hash/perl/virtue.html | 07:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll rewrite the test to use your approach | 07:47 |
| +perlDreamer | It's much cleaner | 07:47 |
| +perlDreamer | especially if you prime $lineage[0] | 07:47 |
| @preaction | perlbot virtues | 07:48 |
| perlbot | Laziness, Impatience, Hubris, Diligence, Patience and Humility | 07:48 |
| @preaction | didn't know which ones you were referring to | 07:48 |
| +perlDreamer | those last three are new | 07:48 |
| @preaction | they're the polar opposites of the first three | 07:49 |
| @preaction | perlbot diligence | 07:49 |
| perlbot | The opposite of laziness. | 07:49 |
| @preaction | perlbot patience | 07:49 |
| perlbot | The opposite of impatience. | 07:49 |
| @preaction | ... but no cool explanation of course | 07:49 |
| @preaction | perlbot hubris | 07:49 |
| perlbot | Excessive pride, the sort of thing Zeus zaps you for. Also the quality that makes you write (and maintain) programs that other people won't want to say bad things about. [Also, the thing that makes you write programs to do something that's already been done, because you believe you 08:38 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] | 07:49 |
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| AMH_mari | Hia all, | 14:56 |
| AMH_mari | Hi... | 14:56 |
| AMH_mari | A weird thing is happening: I try to export one (1) page layout, containing one article and the export hangs. | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | Lots of disk activity on the server and the /var/log/http/error_log lists the following: | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | Can't cd to (./etc/lvm/) backup: Permission denied | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 794 | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | Can't cd to (./etc/lvm/) archive: Permission denied | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 794 | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | Can't cd to (./etc/cups/) ssl: Permission denied | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 794 | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | Can't cd to (./etc/racoon/) certs: Permission denied | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 794 | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | Can't cd to (./etc/) cron.d: Permission denied | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 794 | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | Can't cd to (./etc/selinux/targeted/modules/) active: Permission denied | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 794 | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | Can't cd to (./etc/selinux/targeted/modules/) previous: Permission denied | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 794 | 14:57 |
| AMH_mari | Can't cd to (./etc/pki/) CA: Permission denied | 14:58 |
| AMH_mari | at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 794 | 14:58 |
| AMH_mari | Can't cd to (./home/) samba: Permission denied | 14:58 |
| AMH_mari | at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 794 | 14:58 |
| AMH_mari | I've seen it attempt to access /proc too. | 14:58 |
| AMH_mari | Any thoughts anyone? | 14:58 |
| AMH_mari | The Storage.pm line find(sub { push(@files, $File::Find::name)}, "."); is the culprit... | 15:01 |
| @preaction | that is not good at all | 15:24 |
| @preaction | what does that article contain? | 15:25 |
| @preaction | actually it looks like the bad code is in the chdir, it doesn't check for failure, it doesn't check if it's a valid dir to ch to, and then later we call File::Find on the current working directory (which in this case turned out to be /) | 15:41 |
| @preaction | chdir on mod_perl environments is bad, iirc | 15:41 |
| AMH_mari | Hi preaction; a page layout for a user friendly login page, with an article that contains some text and the ^L() macro call. I'll list its contents, one moment... | 15:43 |
| @preaction | no need, if it's not explicitly linking to those things, i'd consider this a bug. unless something is symlinked there, or could otherwise resolve to there. something weird is going on | 15:44 |
| @preaction | is it the latest WebGUI? | 15:45 |
| AMH_mari | Yes, 7.3.14 | 15:45 |
| @preaction | where's apache's DocumentRoot pointing to? | 15:45 |
| AMH_mari | /data/domains/www.main.vir/public | 15:46 |
| @preaction | try adding a warning, chdir $self->getPath || warn "Could not chdir to '".$self->getPath."': $!"; | 15:47 |
| AMH_mari | and apache's is /var/www/html | 15:47 |
| @preaction | i assume that the files above are relative to root, correct? | 15:47 |
| @preaction | the /etc/pki/ and /home | 15:48 |
| @preaction | wait, the || should be "or" (|| binds too tight to leave out the parens) | 15:48 |
| AMH_mari | Yes | 15:48 |
| AMH_mari | Okay, I must add this in the Storage.pm file at line 794? | 15:49 |
| @preaction | once you add the warning, restart and try again. your apache error log should show you that warning if it fails to chdir | 15:49 |
| @preaction | yes | 15:49 |
| @preaction | no | 15:49 |
| AMH_mari | Okay, i'll do that | 15:49 |
| @preaction | replace line 792 with that | 15:49 |
| AMH_mari | Okay 792 | 15:49 |
| @preaction | chdir $self->getPath or warn "Couldn't chdir to '".$self->getPath."': $!"; | 15:50 |
| AMH_mari | Yep, done it and ran it again; it now says: | 15:53 |
| AMH_mari | Could not chdir to '/data/domains/www.main.vir/public/uploads/BI/0H/BI0Hx90TeU2chdfOQ9yRXA': No such file or directory at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 793. | 15:53 |
| AMH_mari | Can't cd to (./etc/lvm/) backup: Permission denied | 15:53 |
| AMH_mari | at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 795 | 15:53 |
| AMH_mari | (I commented the original 792 line) | 15:53 |
| @preaction | looks like some storage locations got deleted but the WebGUI::Asset::File that referenced them did not | 15:53 |
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| AMH_mari | Can those storage location(s) also be outside the page I'm trying to export? (I think other folders will not export either) | 15:55 |
| @preaction | part of your style perhaps? | 15:56 |
| AMH_mari | Checking... | 15:56 |
| AMH_mari | mmm; I had a style configured that might be the problem. But now I have reconfigured to style Fail Safe, save and commited, recreated the export package (metadata change), but the problem persists. | 16:02 |
| @preaction | same chdirs? you might need to look up the file that's causing the problem. it could be part of a template, or a link on that page, etc... | 16:03 |
| AMH_mari | Indeed, the same upload directory entry.I'll try to find the file, but we have about 250 templates, which were imported into WebGUI using a Perl script. The script does a commit after every template, but I do remember having seen some upload directory related messages in the log before. I'll investigate further. | 16:05 |
| AMH_mari | Many thanks for your support advice :-) | 16:05 |
| @preaction | np, you should still post a bug and post that piece of code with the warning. let somebody on duty decide truly what to do about it, as that could still chdir to a bad directory if allowed to | 16:06 |
| @preaction | (that piece of code being the altered line 792 i gave you) | 16:06 |
| AMH_mari | I'll do that; bugs should be posting on the Plain Black site in a forum? | 16:07 |
| @preaction | http://plainblack.com/bugs | 16:07 |
| AMH_mari | Okay, thanks. | 16:07 |
| AMH_mari | BTW: is there any protection against this type of lost references? If they somehow occur, e.g. due to memory problems on the server (which I suspect to be the problem with my virtual machine hosted WebGUI server)? | 16:09 |
| @preaction | not that i'm aware of. i'm not sure how a memory issue would cause a file to not be created / deleted unless the server itself crashed | 16:10 |
| AMH_mari | It does appear strange indeed; I'll investigate further and if I find a cause add it to the bug report. | 16:11 |
| AMH_mari | And - if I have time - I'll attempt to write a recovery script that scans the whole WebGUI lineage and does something to assets with lost references :-) | 16:13 |
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| AMH_bob | Good morning! | 16:21 |
| SDuensin | Good morning! | 16:21 |
| AMH_bob | :) | 16:21 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 16:21 |
| SDuensin | Vuja-De! | 16:21 |
| AMH_bob | Nice timing, it's actually my coffee break now! | 16:21 |
| SDuensin | Where are you? I'm in the St. Louis, MO area in the USA. | 16:22 |
| AMH_bob | We're in The Netherlands - 90 miles south-east of Amsterdam | 16:23 |
| SDuensin | Got McDonald's there? They have yummy coffee. :-) | 16:24 |
| AMH_bob | Not nearby, they are all close to the freeway or in major cities; We've got a pretty good cappuccino machine (yummie) | 16:25 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 16:25 |
| AMH_bob | So I'm off to the machine and then finish my last 5 minutes of break outside, later! | 16:26 |
| SDuensin | I got hooked on coffee when I was working on the Air Force base near me. There was a fancy coffee bar in the building run by some really hot women. :-) | 16:26 |
| SDuensin | See ya! | 16:26 |
| ckotil | i started drinking coffee not long aog | 16:27 |
| ckotil | it does wonders for waking my ass up | 16:28 |
| SDuensin | I'm still more of a hot tea fan. But man, McDs has good coffee. <G> | 16:29 |
| ckotil | ya, its not bad. i just cant be eating McBagels/McGriddles every morning | 16:29 |
| ckotil | i usually opt for a bagel w/ coffee | 16:29 |
| SDuensin | I hear ya. I love those sausage McMuffins, but I very rarely buy one. I'd be 500 pounds! | 16:30 |
| SDuensin | (Dang programming! Sit on my butt all day!) | 16:31 |
| ckotil | indeed | 16:31 |
| ckotil | yarly | 16:31 |
| ckotil | only physical activity i do is move my fingers, and walk to and from the bathroom | 16:31 |
| SDuensin | Dang. Now that I said that, I want a McMuffin and grease-soaked hashbrowns! | 16:31 |
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| SDuensin | Morning, bopbop | 16:34 |
| bopbop | Morning! Welcome Haarg. | 16:34 |
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| @Haarg | morning | 16:38 |
| SDuensin | Howdy Haarg | 16:40 |
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| perlmonkey2 | Does webgui hosting offer SSL/TLS pop/smtp? | 17:19 |
| sanyock | Hi Ppl! | 17:19 |
| SDuensin | Hello sanyock | 17:19 |
| @rizen | if you buy the ssl cert, we'll install it for you for free | 17:19 |
| SDuensin | Morning, rizen & perlmonkey2 | 17:19 |
| @rizen | and yes, it comes with pop3/smtp and webmail | 17:19 |
| perlmonkey2 | Good morning Sduensin: | 17:20 |
| @rizen | good morning all | 17:20 |
| perlmonkey2 | I have a police force that needs secure web and email and I'm thinking this is a good oppurtunity to push my favorite CMS. | 17:20 |
| sanyock | the latest version is awesome | 17:20 |
| @rizen | oh wait...was i misunderstanding you | 17:24 |
| @rizen | are you asking if we do SSL on pop transactiions? | 17:24 |
| perlmonkey2 | well...I'm not really sure how it would work beyond the user connections......The user would use ssl to pop and for smtp connections, but I don't know how the emails are secured (or if it is possible) after the email leaves your server. | 17:25 |
| @rizen | yeah, we don't offer ssl on email connections | 17:26 |
| @rizen | only on web sites | 17:26 |
| @rizen | if you're concerned about email privacy | 17:26 |
| @rizen | you're much better off having them encrypt their messages with pgp keys or something | 17:26 |
| @rizen | cuz then it's good for the life of the email message | 17:27 |
| @rizen | not just the connection to/from the server | 17:27 |
| perlmonkey2 | and would easy to set up in Outlook or Thunderbird. But I doubt it is easy via Webmail. | 17:27 |
| @rizen | yeah, our webmail interface doesn't support that yet | 17:28 |
| sanyock | I locked a home page but there is no unlock in "more" popup menu, cannot find in forum or doc how to unlock, may be by direct database edit | 17:28 |
| @rizen | you need to either commit your version tag | 17:29 |
| @rizen | or roll it back | 17:29 |
| @rizen | that's how you unlock it | 17:29 |
| perlmonkey2 | No offense to police, but they won't be highly technical users and they'll want their email at work and at home. So setting up secure email for them is probably going to be a pain.....I wish I could just get them to use Gaim-OTR :) | 17:30 |
| sanyock | thanks, it worked | 17:30 |
| perlmonkey2 | rizen: Do you run spamassassin? | 17:33 |
| @rizen | no, we run a carrier grade spam filtering system, similar to the one used by gmail | 17:34 |
| perlmonkey2 | woot, even better. | 17:34 |
| perlmonkey2 | *knows he's asking too many off-topic questions but just has one more* | 17:37 |
| perlmonkey2 | I don't see anywhere on the site on how to get more than 25 email accounts. They will need an email account for every employee in the department. | 17:37 |
| @rizen | it's $15 per month for each additional 25 email accounts | 17:37 |
| @rizen | you buy them in blocks of 25 | 17:38 |
| perlmonkey2 | not too shabby....thanks :) | 17:38 |
| sanyock | it seems that asset order change did not create a new version, is it correct? | 17:50 |
| @rizen | tree operations are not versioned | 17:50 |
| sanyock | do they apply at once? | 17:50 |
| @rizen | yup | 17:50 |
| @rizen | versioning is for content only | 17:51 |
| sanyock | it is first time I am working with versioning system | 17:51 |
| @rizen | if we versioned tree operations we'd have to make a copy of the entire tree every time you moved something, due to the way tree relationships affect the lineage | 17:51 |
| sanyock | Last time I worked with webgui 6.5.6 | 17:52 |
| @rizen | ah | 17:52 |
| sanyock | http://kurgan.pfr.ru runs it | 17:52 |
| @rizen | you'll absolutely hate versioning and workflow until the day that it saves your ass | 17:52 |
| @rizen | =) | 17:52 |
| SDuensin | I already love it and my ass is fine. :-) | 17:53 |
| sanyock | I already tried to do several things and then to rollback to the original webgui as it was after install | 17:53 |
| sanyock | looks like transactions in databases running in online backup mode | 17:53 |
| sanyock | it's great feature | 17:54 |
| sanyock | I wonder does exist any CMS which is similar to WebGUI in features and GUI (may be commercial) | 17:56 |
| SDuensin | Not that I've ever found. | 17:56 |
| SDuensin | (And believe me, I looked!) | 17:56 |
| sanyock | I tried many and most of them like nuke or drupal, etc. | 17:57 |
| * SDuensin is moving from Drupal and Joomla to WebGUI just as soon as he can find his stupid "Caught SIGTERM" problem. | 17:57 | |
| @rizen | typo3 has similar features to webgui | 17:58 |
| sanyock | the only thing I am concerned I will have to learn perl to do some minor customization | 17:58 |
| @rizen | but much harder to use | 17:58 |
| sanyock | typo3 has more complex admin gui | 17:58 |
| SDuensin | Oh yea. I remember Typo3. I remember being incredibly confused. | 17:59 |
| sanyock | also I was not able to install ceo friendly url plugin | 17:59 |
| @rizen | oracle portals has similar functionality to webgui | 17:59 |
| sanyock | realurl if remember correct | 17:59 |
| sanyock | and given up | 17:59 |
| SDuensin | Oracle? Such language! | 17:59 |
| @rizen | well it does | 17:59 |
| @rizen | but the big thing it doesn't have is any sort of automated navigation | 18:00 |
| @rizen | you have to manually build it out of a random assortment objects that you have created in your database | 18:00 |
| SDuensin | Hey rizen (or anyone), I know you have no reason to support my install, but have you ever seen WebGUI's WRE (the RHEL4 one) copy of Apache die with "Caught SIGTERM" when people access the WebGUI site? | 18:03 |
| SDuensin | I cannot find what is causing it! Driving me nuts! | 18:03 |
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| @rizen | are you running on RHEL4? | 18:05 |
| @rizen | or CentOS4? | 18:05 |
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| @rizen | or something else? | 18:05 |
| SDuensin | CentOS4 | 18:05 |
| @rizen | in that case no | 18:06 |
| @rizen | the only time i've seen it happen is when someone tries to force it onto some other os | 18:06 |
| @rizen | like fedora core | 18:06 |
| sanyock | What I think about is in any area the is a best thing for some person, in CMS I think it is webgui for me, may be someone does his favorites for different areas of life and work. So if some persons share their habbits they may like favorites of each others, it would be easier to find best thing in any area having several such similar favorites list :) | 18:07 |
| sanyock | Sad that it takes time to find this best thing | 18:07 |
| sanyock | May there is such a project in the net | 18:08 |
| sanyock | for example best database engine, best cpu manufacture, best PDA for the same person | 18:08 |
| sanyock | it would save a lot of time if someone could find his clone :) | 18:09 |
| SDuensin | "uname -a" doesn't actually say "CentOS" in it anywhere. How can I be 100% sure? (I was told it was CentOS4.) | 18:09 |
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| sanyock | cat /etc/*version* /etc/*distr* /etc/*releas* | 18:20 |
| SDuensin | Thank you. CentOS release 4.4 (Final) | 18:22 |
| SDuensin | Maybe I'll abuse the host and try and compile my own. :-) | 18:22 |
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| SDuensin | Can anyone here reach SourceForge? | 18:41 |
| sanyock | no, and does not ping | 18:46 |
| SDuensin | Ouch. | 18:47 |
| SDuensin | That is NOT good. | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's down in europe too | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | at least in delft | 18:47 |
| SDuensin | Damn. | 18:48 |
| SDuensin | Someone forgot to pay the bill. | 18:48 |
| SDuensin | Is there an alternate site to download the WRE source from? | 18:48 |
| sanyock | I wonder how webgui knows that "Newer Coolmenu" is a navigation template and then displays it in navigation type drop down | 18:48 |
| sanyock | I have webgui-7.3.14-stable.tar.gz if needed | 18:49 |
| SDuensin | Thanks, but I need the WRE source, not WebGUI. | 18:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | sduensin, i think the wre is available only on sf\ | 18:49 |
| SDuensin | I was afraid of that, MrHairgrease. I'm in the same boat with code and docs I'm working on. | 18:50 |
| sanyock | ups, plainblack hosts source themselves | 18:51 |
| sanyock | so more common quesiton is how webgui knows that a template is of some type | 18:55 |
| sanyock | the "type" field of template seems always is HTML::Template | 18:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | under the metadata tab | 18:56 |
| sanyock | but WebGUI somehow distinguishes them | 18:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | there is the namespace | 18:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | the namespace makes the distinction | 18:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you create a new template you must select the correct namespace (which is then under the properties tab) | 18:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | The type field specifies which backend templating engine this template uses | 18:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | the default templates all use HTML::Template | 18:58 |
| sanyock | so it is readonly and unchangable | 18:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | once a namespace has been assigned it is unchangeable | 18:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | which makes sence | 19:00 |
| sanyock | only selectable when created | 19:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes | 19:00 |
| sanyock | Thank you for explanation | 19:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 19:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | np | 19:00 |
| SDuensin | Is there a reason for that, or is it just to make me create new assets when I screw up? :-) | 19:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | it makes no sense to change the namespace | 19:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | eg. | 19:01 |
| SDuensin | It does if you screw it up. :-P | 19:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | a NAvigation template has no use at all as a style template | 19:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | wel | 19:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | you shouldn't screw up =) | 19:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | in that case you can fix it directly in the db | 19:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | but you dont want that | 19:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | or | 19:02 |
| SDuensin | Food time! Be back in a bit. | 19:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | you create a new one and copy paste the template contents | 19:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 19:02 |
| sanyock | It seems I cannot create a new template, only duplicate existing (or may be copy/paste) | 19:18 |
| sanyock | And assets admin layout looks broken when "New Content"\"Template" clicked | 19:20 |
| sanyock | v 7.3.14 | 19:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | on demo.plainblack.com this works | 19:23 |
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| wgGuest47 | How can I add "prev page" and "next page" into webgui pages? | 19:24 |
| sanyock | And WebGUI displayed that broken interface several times when tried to edit duplictaed and original too until commited, then editor opened only after original was edited | 19:24 |
| sanyock | I refer templates (not pages) | 19:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | please try to reproduce that on demo.plainblack.com and file a bug report | 19:25 |
| sanyock | may be browser | 19:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 19:25 |
| sanyock | firefox 1.5.3 | 19:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | that should work | 19:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://plainblack.com/bugs | 19:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | don't forget to attach a screenshot | 19:26 |
| sanyock | I see, (already reported few before) | 19:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 19:26 |
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| sanyock | ok | 19:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | gotta go | 19:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'm hungry | 19:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | later | 19:27 |
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| wgGuest47 | can I add macros from the UI / witout access to filestructure directly with FTP? | 19:41 |
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| sanyock | bye bye | 19:58 |
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| SDuensin | Oh man am I borderline painfully full. :-) | 20:26 |
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| cap10morgan | Our search systems seems to be picking up old revisions and deleted assets. How do you turn that off? | 21:17 |
| cap10morgan | this is in 7.3.14 | 21:20 |
| cap10morgan | is it supposed to do that by default? | 21:26 |
| * SDuensin has no idea | 21:26 | |
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| cap10morgan | also, the modperl server in the WRE is refusing some connections, even though i've upped the maxclients to 1024 (and we're nowhere near that limit) | 21:45 |
| cap10morgan | what other limits are there in there that i need to increase on a production site? | 21:45 |
| SDuensin | Wish I knew. So far, all I can do is crash the modperl server. | 21:46 |
| * SDuensin is compiling one from source right now. | 21:46 | |
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| cap10morgan | bah, the modperl server just randomly returns blank pages sometimes (pretty often) | 22:05 |
| cap10morgan | ok, yeah, my modperl server is acting very weird | 22:10 |
| cap10morgan | it restarts every few seconds | 22:10 |
| cap10morgan | ah, i think my wremonitor was going haywire | 22:12 |
| SDuensin | Look in your log. Mine kept saying "[notice] Caught SIGTERM". | 22:14 |
| cap10morgan | it was the wremonitor on mine | 22:33 |
| cap10morgan | i don't use the modproxy server in the wre, so that was freaking it out | 22:34 |
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| SDuensin | Hmmm. I'll have to look into that. Mine dies when someone accesses the site. | 22:35 |
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| cap10morgan | SDuensin: Have you tried attaching gdb to the process? | 22:36 |
| SDuensin | I'm not that versed in gdb. | 22:37 |
| cap10morgan | I'm not either :) | 22:39 |
| cap10morgan | but i know you can attach it to a running process and then if it crashes, type "bt" to get a backtrace | 22:39 |
| cap10morgan | these can be kinda cryptic unless the running binary had debugging symbols in it | 22:39 |
| cap10morgan | but sometimes they can point you in the right direction | 22:39 |
| cap10morgan | you could also try getting strace to launch the process | 22:40 |
| cap10morgan | and watch that | 22:40 |
| SDuensin | I'm currently building the WRE from source *on* the box it'll run from. | 22:42 |
| cap10morgan | gotcha | 22:43 |
| SDuensin | If there's some kind of library weirdness, that should fix it. | 22:44 |
| cap10morgan | yeah | 22:44 |
| cap10morgan | what kind of box is it? | 22:45 |
| cap10morgan | linux? | 22:45 |
| SDuensin | Yea. CentOS4. | 22:45 |
| cap10morgan | oh, ok | 22:45 |
| cap10morgan | and then standard rhel4 wre is having problems on there? | 22:45 |
| cap10morgan | i've run that wre on centos4 just fine... | 22:46 |
| SDuensin | It blows up. :-( | 22:50 |
| SDuensin | Now, that's not saying I don't have something else screwed up. :-) | 22:50 |
| SDuensin | Weird. When compiling the WRE, it blew up trying to build Net::LDAP. When I did it by hand using cpan, it worked fine. | 22:54 |
| SDuensin | Build seems to be continuing now. | 22:55 |
| SDuensin | Can't wait until my ISP gets my CPU usage for the day. :-) | 22:59 |
| SDuensin | Whoo hoo! It built! | 23:08 |
| SDuensin | Now to reinstall all my sites and see what happens. | 23:11 |
| cap10morgan | good luck! | 23:14 |
| SDuensin | Thanks. :-) | 23:15 |
| SDuensin | Made a tarball of the binaries before I screw 'em up. | 23:15 |
| SDuensin | Wow. 73 meg of source made 74 meg of binaries. Almost 1:1! | 23:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | hey, all! | 23:40 |
| * vayde chucks a fish in PD's direction, just to be friendly | 23:40 | |
| +perlDreamer | aw, shucks | 23:41 |
| SDuensin | Hey perlDreamer | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | Hey! | 23:41 |
| @rizen | methinks that fishchucking shall be banned going forward | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | It's been a busy day at $dayJob. Have I missed much? | 23:41 |
| SDuensin | Just me $bitching. | 23:42 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 23:42 |
| * SDuensin compiled his own WRE to break later tonight. | 23:42 | |
| +perlDreamer | which platform? | 23:43 |
| SDuensin | CentOS4 | 23:43 |
| SDuensin | The RHEL4 modperl server keeps blowing up on me. | 23:44 |
| SDuensin | Well, blowing up may not be accurate. It keeps catching a SIGTERM from somewhere when people access the site. | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | you should post that as a bug | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | A lot of people use that WRE binary | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | like PlainBlack | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | but they run it on RHEL4, of course | 23:45 |
| SDuensin | I don't even know what it is! Might be my fault. | 23:45 |
| SDuensin | "Scott can't make it work." isn't really a bug. :-) | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | if you knew what it was, it wouldn't be a bug. | 23:47 |
| SDuensin | Sure it would! I know all kinds of bugs in my code. They're just "pending" fixes! | 23:48 |
| SDuensin | Time to head home. Later! | 23:56 |
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| --- Day changed Wed Apr 18 2007 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | greetings, Sensei | 01:26 |
| @vayde | Howdy | 01:27 |
| * vayde bows | 01:27 | |
| +perlDreamer | perlDreamer bows back | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | what technique are we learning tonight? | 01:27 |
| @vayde | How ya doing PD? | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | things on the west coast are good | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | simulating verilog and kicking butt | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | much to the detriment of the wG community | 01:28 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, so you know | 01:29 |
| @vayde | That's cool. I'm trying to kick butt, while finding a new place for us to kick butt, and at the same time trying to prevent rizen from kicking my butt. | 01:29 |
| * vayde is all ears (under the hair) | 01:30 | |
| +perlDreamer | don't use the getFirstChild and getLastChild methods with disableCache enabled in the config file | 01:30 |
| +perlDreamer | they'll crash the server | 01:30 |
| +perlDreamer | I should have a fix for it later tomorrow | 01:30 |
| +perlDreamer | good news is that those methods are not used anywhere in WebGUI that I've found | 01:30 |
| +perlDreamer | Why do you need a new place to kick butt? Larger studio? | 01:30 |
| @vayde | Cheaper hopefully | 01:31 |
| @vayde | Larger is nice, but I'm sick of paying for it | 01:31 |
| @vayde | $3k per month just for rent | 01:31 |
| +perlDreamer | wow | 01:31 |
| +perlDreamer | that's a lot of monster time | 01:31 |
| @vayde | Yeah, we're forced into retail space by local ordinance | 01:31 |
| @vayde | Luckily I've found some cities nearby who are willing to play ball | 01:31 |
| @vayde | brb. gotta check an xserver setting | 01:33 |
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| @rizen | how ya been pd | 01:57 |
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| +perlDreamer | hacking chips and writing wG tests | 02:07 |
| +perlDreamer | how about you, rizen? | 02:07 |
| @rizen | pulling lots of all nighters to keep up with what's going on at pb | 02:08 |
| @rizen | have you met Haarg (aka Graham) yet? | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | be careful dude, otherwise you'll end up taking a big vacation like frank | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | a little last night | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | Seems like a nice guy | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | Good answers on the boards | 02:09 |
| @rizen | i hired him as an LTE to help us get caught up on bug fixing and writing tests | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | cool. | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | My brains are at his service | 02:09 |
| @rizen | and to help me with support | 02:09 |
| @rizen | that's awesome man..thanks | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I see he's logged on now, is Haarg actually here? | 02:09 |
| @vayde | rizen, PD has been a big help to me too. If you weren't aware of that, you should be | 02:10 |
| @rizen | he's showing away on my screen | 02:10 |
| @rizen | i am vayde, but thanks for saying so | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | 'cause I'd like to talk about some bugs I've found. | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | would it be better to do it on the dev list? | 02:10 |
| @rizen | you can talk here if you want me to talk with you, but better do it on the dev list if you want to talk with Haarg | 02:12 |
| @rizen | he's not here now | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | eh, let's hash it out now | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | he can always read the IRC logs | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | inside AssetLineage, getFirstChild and getLastChild | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | both are broken if disableCache is enabled | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | and only one of them actually checks disableCache, even though it does it too late to stop a bad deref | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | the methods aren't used anywhere in the core | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | should they be fixed or scrapped? | 02:14 |
| @rizen | damn | 02:15 |
| @rizen | i just got an invoice from hawaii | 02:15 |
| @rizen | i thought it was for on site training | 02:15 |
| @rizen | turns out it's for online training | 02:15 |
| @rizen | s/invoice/purchase order/ | 02:16 |
| @rizen | i thought someone at pb was going to hawaii | 02:16 |
| @rizen | no such luck | 02:16 |
| @rizen | =) | 02:16 |
| @vayde | damn, I tried | 02:16 |
| @rizen | ok...back to your questions | 02:16 |
| @rizen | we can't scrap them | 02:16 |
| @rizen | who knows if someone is using them or not | 02:16 |
| @rizen | but my api promise ensures that they must be there | 02:16 |
| @rizen | so therefore they must be fixed | 02:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll fix them | 02:16 |
| @rizen | k | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | the other question I asked on the dev list | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | more paranoia about clashing | 02:17 |
| @rizen | i saw it | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | It's nuts, right? | 02:17 |
| @rizen | but i've been soo busy i haven't had time to respond | 02:17 |
| @rizen | cuz it's a long thought process | 02:17 |
| @rizen | you had to put a formula into it | 02:18 |
| @rizen | and me not so good at the math numbers | 02:18 |
| @rizen | so, could you explain this | 02:18 |
| @rizen | The odds are much higher than 1 in a million (38**6 : N, where N is the number of siblings), but they could be 0 if any character in the temporary lineage is set to a non-digit character. | 02:18 |
| @rizen | what does ** mean | 02:19 |
| @rizen | is that the same as ^ | 02:19 |
| @rizen | as in 38 to the power of 6 | 02:19 |
| +perlDreamer | exponentation | 02:19 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 02:19 |
| @rizen | and i always thought that : meant "therefore" in math | 02:20 |
| @rizen | but apparently it means something else | 02:20 |
| @rizen | oh wait | 02:20 |
| @rizen | you're using it like a ratio | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | right, I'm quoting odds | 02:20 |
| @rizen | there's a 1 in 1000000 chance | 02:20 |
| @rizen | that sort of thing | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | right | 02:20 |
| @rizen | ok...sorry | 02:20 |
| @rizen | told you my brain doesn't like math | 02:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll believe you next time ;) | 02:21 |
| +perlDreamer | so the odds are very, very low | 02:21 |
| +perlDreamer | but they could be 0 | 02:21 |
| @rizen | so then explain how the odds could be 0 | 02:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | oh, the temporary lineage should have a character in it | 02:21 |
| +perlDreamer | like 'F' | 02:21 |
| +perlDreamer | since real lineage only have numbers, they'll never clash | 02:21 |
| @rizen | that actually doesn't make it 0 | 02:22 |
| @rizen | it just lowers the odds even further | 02:22 |
| +perlDreamer | you think there's still a chance of collision? | 02:22 |
| @rizen | under 2 circumstances, yes | 02:23 |
| @rizen | if you have a crash or some other error | 02:24 |
| @rizen | where the temporary lineage never gets cleaned up | 02:24 |
| @rizen | though that's rare | 02:24 |
| @rizen | and if you have that problem, you'll have other problems | 02:24 |
| @rizen | and the more common | 02:24 |
| @rizen | 2 people editing at the same level at the same time | 02:24 |
| @rizen | if both are using the letter F | 02:24 |
| @rizen | then there's still a chance of collision | 02:25 |
| @rizen | not with the existing lineage | 02:25 |
| @rizen | but rather with each other | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | if the lineages are used inside of transactions, does that still hold true? | 02:25 |
| @rizen | in our case it doesn't matter | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm getting called out of my cube, I'll be back later | 02:25 |
| @rizen | because webgui uses myisam tables | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | accursed $dayJob | 02:25 |
| @rizen | not innodb | 02:25 |
| @rizen | ok | 02:25 |
| cap10morgan | Is the search system in v7 supposed to return old revisions and deleted assets? | 02:43 |
| @rizen | no | 02:44 |
| cap10morgan | hmm, it seems to be on one of our sites | 02:45 |
| @rizen | before you submit it as a bug, you need to do 2 things | 02:46 |
| @rizen | 1) be on the latest 7.3 version | 02:46 |
| cap10morgan | check | 02:46 |
| @rizen | 2) reindex your site using the command line search.pl script, and then wait to see if it continues to happen | 02:47 |
| @rizen | the reason for number 2 is to make sure that it wasn't some old bug that you're being hit with | 02:47 |
| @rizen | but in fact that it's a new problem | 02:47 |
| cap10morgan | did that too | 02:47 |
| @rizen | and does it happen on all your sites, or just one? | 02:48 |
| @rizen | your comment made it sound like just one | 02:48 |
| cap10morgan | we only have one launched in v7 so far, but i can check some other dev sites | 02:48 |
| @rizen | fair enough | 02:48 |
| @rizen | feel free to report it as a bug | 02:48 |
| @rizen | though, i haven't noticed this being a problem on other sites so far, so i can't rule out a config problem | 02:49 |
| cap10morgan | yeah, it might be content people not cleaning up after themselves too | 02:51 |
| cap10morgan | i'll keep digging a little | 02:51 |
| cap10morgan | it looks like it's returning old titles for existing assets, but i'll investigate further | 02:51 |
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| PedersenMJ | good evening | 04:58 |
| PedersenMJ | Wow... Just read the past couple of announcements on pb. Those can't feel at all good. | 05:00 |
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| PedersenMJ | heya pd. How goes? | 05:02 |
| +Radix-wrk | morning PedersenMJ and perlDreamer :) | 05:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Heya Radix-wrk | 05:17 |
| +Radix-wrk | and yeah, old Visitor can vote/rate/pick his nose freely bug has risen again. I kinda wish that it wasn't set up that way by default, as we keep running into this one. | 05:18 |
| +Radix-wrk | I doubt it was anyone being nasty either really.. more than likely just web crawlers doing it. | 05:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, the way the announcement was phrased certainly made it seem like it was already checked/verified that someone was being a jerk. | 05:20 |
| +Radix-wrk | yup, but if visitor can vote then you're asking for trouble | 05:20 |
| +Radix-wrk | each visitor can only vote one session, so it'd need to be someone who is continually grabbing new sessions and voting | 05:21 |
| @rizen | it was visitor | 05:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Not that hard: while `true` ; do wget http://www.plainblack.com/right/url/for/voting ; sleep 3600 ; done | 05:22 |
| @rizen | sorry, it was checked | 05:22 |
| +Radix-wrk | was all from one ip or something? | 05:22 |
| @rizen | a certain individual went kept connecting and reconnecting to his isp | 05:22 |
| @rizen | to get a different ip address each time | 05:22 |
| @rizen | and voted over and over | 05:22 |
| PedersenMJ | That's sucky behavior to the extreme. For what? $250? Big deal. | 05:23 |
| +Radix-wrk | and this certain individual also put in a submission? | 05:23 |
| @rizen | there were 6 votes from the same isp for the same submission in 1 day | 05:23 |
| @rizen | no | 05:23 |
| @rizen | it appears to be a friend or colleague of the submitter | 05:23 |
| +Radix-wrk | I see | 05:23 |
| PedersenMJ | He didn't even put one in, and did that? Man, what crap. | 05:23 |
| +Radix-wrk | You'll probably get people making fake accounts and voting next | 05:24 |
| @rizen | if they're willing to go that far | 05:24 |
| @rizen | i won't stop em | 05:24 |
| +Radix-wrk | unfortunately the internet is like that :( | 05:24 |
| * Radix-wrk makes a dozen accounts and votes for himself. | 05:25 | |
| +Radix-wrk | sif :) | 05:25 |
| * PedersenMJ scripts it, makes a couple hundred accounts, and then votes at random :) | 05:25 | |
| +Radix-wrk | Some people will do crazy things for money tho I guess | 05:26 |
| +Radix-wrk | So on a different note, what happened with the content managers guide? | 05:27 |
| * PedersenMJ was just about to ask about that. | 05:27 | |
| @rizen | we sent the prepress files into the publisher | 05:30 |
| @rizen | but there was s problem with some embedded fonts | 05:30 |
| @rizen | so the resulting printed book had a bunch of unreadable text in it | 05:30 |
| @rizen | so we're correcting the problem | 05:30 |
| @rizen | which unfortunately is a tedious process | 05:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Ouch. Wishing I could help fix it. | 05:30 |
| @rizen | and then we'll resend the book | 05:30 |
| +Radix-wrk | Fair enough | 05:31 |
| +Radix-wrk | What does lulu use for printing generally? | 05:31 |
| +Radix-wrk | pdf? | 05:31 |
| @rizen | yup | 05:31 |
| @rizen | and it turns out that all pdf's are not created equal | 05:32 |
| @rizen | which is news to me | 05:32 |
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| +Radix-wrk | all pdf's are equal if you use adobe acrobat to create it I guess, otherwise you're screwed. | 05:33 |
| +Radix-wrk | I've seen some wacky results with other apps that generate pdf's for our own manuals. | 05:33 |
| PedersenMJ | No, Radix, that's not entirely true. | 05:33 |
| PedersenMJ | Our advertising Dept uses Adobe Acrobat to generate PDF's. And every time we switch printers, we have to get a new batch of settings, and get Acrobat configured with those settings. | 05:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, and by printers, I mean companies which print newspapers, not new laserjets/inkjets/etc. | 05:35 |
| +Radix-wrk | yeah, there's heaps of settings just within acrobat itself which can cause all sorts of dramas | 05:35 |
| @rizen | we all use macs here | 05:35 |
| +Radix-wrk | Oh well.. good luck getting it sorted anyway | 05:36 |
| @rizen | and macs have pdf support built in | 05:36 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah. PDF for people to receive PDFs are pretty much all equal. Printing... Bleah. | 05:36 |
| @rizen | but mac's pdf capability (quartz) it turns out is a pretty horrible implementation for prepress quality stuff | 05:36 |
| PedersenMJ | Our advertising dept uses all Macs as well. OSX 10.3.9, to be precise. | 05:36 |
| @rizen | we were using Apple Pages to design the books | 05:36 |
| @rizen | which uses quartz to generate pdfs | 05:37 |
| @rizen | and now we have to reformat the entire book in Open Office | 05:37 |
| @rizen | and export as PDF | 05:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Ouch... Ouch ouch ouch. | 05:37 |
| +Radix-wrk | oh what fun ;) | 05:37 |
| PedersenMJ | I like OpenOffice.org, make no mistake. But on the Mac, that just hurts. | 05:37 |
| @rizen | because open office uses it's own pdf generator | 05:37 |
| @rizen | yeah, it's slow and crappy on the mac | 05:37 |
| @rizen | we don't have another choice | 05:38 |
| PedersenMJ | That and the X11 interface is a very jarring experience. | 05:38 |
| @rizen | adobe doesn't sell acrobat distiller for mac anymore | 05:38 |
| @rizen | well...unless you're willing to buy volume liceneses | 05:38 |
| @rizen | from them | 05:38 |
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| PedersenMJ | What? That's ridiculous! | 05:38 |
| @rizen | they will if you buy the new CS3 professional creative suite something or other | 05:39 |
| @rizen | that coasts $1500 | 05:39 |
| @rizen | and isn't available yet | 05:39 |
| @rizen | anyway...i just decided, fuck it, we're going back to open office for the books | 05:40 |
| @rizen | at least i know that works | 05:40 |
| @rizen | cuz we did the primer using open office | 05:40 |
| PedersenMJ | I don't blame you, not in the least. | 05:40 |
| +Radix-wrk | you can't get adobe acrobat for macintosh? | 05:41 |
| PedersenMJ | https://store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/index.cfm?store=OLS-US&view=ols_prod&category=/Applications/AcrobatPro&distributionMethod=FULL&nr=0 | 05:43 |
| @rizen | interesting | 05:44 |
| @rizen | i was all over their damn site today | 05:44 |
| @rizen | and couldn't find that | 05:44 |
| @rizen | all i could find was that you get it if you buy cs3 | 05:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, they didn't make it very obvious, they really didn't. | 05:44 |
| @rizen | even so, it costs $500 just to be able to create pdfs | 05:45 |
| @rizen | we have to sell a lot of books to recoup $500 | 05:45 |
| +Radix-wrk | there's a standard version too | 05:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah. To me, that's rather a ripoff. | 05:45 |
| +Radix-wrk | standard is US$499 | 05:45 |
| +Radix-wrk | standard is US$299 rather | 05:45 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobatpro/acrobatstd.html | 05:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Didn't see that link at first. Thanks for making me look, Radix :) | 05:46 |
| @rizen | if you go here http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobatpro/acrobatstd.html | 05:46 |
| @rizen | yeah | 05:46 |
| @rizen | now look at system requirements | 05:46 |
| +Radix-wrk | Oh.. no.. | 05:46 |
| @rizen | it says you need windows | 05:46 |
| +Radix-wrk | standard is windows only | 05:46 |
| +Radix-wrk | you need pro to run on a mac.. lol | 05:47 |
| @rizen | and then i found another link somewhere | 05:47 |
| @rizen | that said i could buy standard for mac | 05:47 |
| @rizen | but only if i was buying volume | 05:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Doh! Ya gotta love Adobe. Really. Or get busy planning the firing squad for their executives. | 05:47 |
| +Radix-wrk | are there any ghostscript hacks for the mac like windows at all? | 05:47 |
| @rizen | ho here's where i found it | 05:47 |
| @rizen | Acrobat 8 Elements will be availabe mid-2007. Acrobat Elements 7.0 is currently available through volume licensing with a minimum of 100 seats per order. | 05:47 |
| @rizen | granted that's for elements | 05:48 |
| @rizen | but since i couldn't get standard | 05:48 |
| +Radix-wrk | I mean there are several free pdf creators for windows using ghostscript as the backend | 05:48 |
| @rizen | i thought i'd try that | 05:48 |
| @rizen | i don't have windows | 05:48 |
| @rizen | i'm on a mac | 05:48 |
| +Radix-wrk | surely there's something similar for the mac tho! | 05:48 |
| @rizen | but there isn't | 05:48 |
| @rizen | because mac natively supports pdf | 05:48 |
| @rizen | or so everyone thinks | 05:48 |
| @rizen | that's what i thought until this week | 05:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Why would there be, Radix? (points to JT, as he's said what I was about to) | 05:49 |
| @rizen | every application has a "save as pdf" option right in the app | 05:49 |
| @rizen | and for most every day purposes | 05:49 |
| @rizen | that works exactly as you'd expect | 05:49 |
| @rizen | it wasn't until i gave the file to lulu.com that i've ever had a problem with it | 05:49 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/13334 | 05:50 |
| @rizen | that's interesting | 05:52 |
| +Radix-wrk | if you can save the document in postscript format you can use the freeware ps2pdf utility too.. | 05:52 |
| @rizen | all their documentation says they only support windows | 05:52 |
| @rizen | and also, that binary is only for PPC based macs. | 05:53 |
| @rizen | i'm the only one in the company that has that | 05:53 |
| @rizen | everyone else is intel | 05:53 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/ | 05:53 |
| @rizen | which i guess would work if i'm the one that's going to publish each new book as it becomes available | 05:53 |
| @rizen | ghostscript won't work | 05:53 |
| @rizen | how do i get apple pages to write out something that ghostscript can use | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Can you get it to write out to postscript? | 05:54 |
| @rizen | granted..on windows you can make ghostscript into a printer | 05:54 |
| @rizen | no | 05:54 |
| @rizen | it only saves as it's format, word (all fucked up), and pdf | 05:54 |
| +Radix-wrk | can you print to a postscript capable laser printer and save as a file? | 05:55 |
| @rizen | look guys, i appreciate your help, but i spent half the day yesterday looking for other options | 05:55 |
| @rizen | and we've already started converting into open office | 05:56 |
| +Radix-wrk | hehe.. k :) | 05:56 |
| @rizen | i absolutely KNOW that will work | 05:56 |
| @rizen | anything else is just speculation | 05:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Gotta try, JT. You wouldn't like us at *all* if we didn't at least *try* :) | 05:57 |
| @rizen | what makes you think i like you now? | 05:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Maybe only a teeny tiny smidgen, and you might not want to admit it, but there's something in the vicinity of "They're not *too* bad" there. Versus "What a bunch of wasted flesh" if we didn't at least *try*. | 05:58 |
| +Radix-wrk | LOL - http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/hprajani/phun/disk.jpg | 06:00 |
| PedersenMJ | I've got one that beats that: I actually had someone ask me where the Tab key was. This was only about 3 years ago, too. | 06:01 |
| +Radix-wrk | what about the Any key? | 06:02 |
| PedersenMJ | He didn't ask about that. | 06:03 |
| PedersenMJ | But he *did* have a complete inability to follow instructions. Including ones that he himself had written down for his benefit (I was training the guy, and he took notes on a rather long and complex process, and was unable to follow the notes he had taken, repeatedly skipping a whole section of steps). | 06:04 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, this was for a cust svc position. He lasted two weeks before we couldn't take it anymore, and pretty well begged management to fire him (they did, fortunately). | 06:06 |
| PedersenMJ | "Extra Large" and "Pink Camo" are two things that should not be combined in the same sentence unless the term "not", "never" or "Oh please Jesus no don't wear that" is also present. | 06:12 |
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| PedersenMJ | I would have *sworn* I saw perlDreamer join earlier... | 06:19 |
| perlDreame1 | netsplit | 06:23 |
| perlDreame1 | I forgot to log off at $dayJob | 06:23 |
| perlDreame1 | rizen: are you still here? | 06:24 |
| @rizen | nope | 06:25 |
| @rizen | just us chickens | 06:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah... Weird. I'm used to my hour long commute, which made it seem odd that you would have been on from work, then from home. | 06:25 |
| perlDreame1 | Can we finish up the talk from this afternoon? | 06:25 |
| perlDreame1 | Although, I think I see your point | 06:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Quick, nobody count those chickens (unless they've all hatched, of course!) | 06:25 |
| @rizen | sure | 06:25 |
| @rizen | but first | 06:25 |
| perlDreame1 | without real transactions, I'm convinced that you're right | 06:25 |
| @rizen | Perersen and Radix | 06:25 |
| @rizen | since you want to help me find stuff | 06:25 |
| @rizen | i need to find a WMV codec for Mac that plays the WMV MSS2 screen recording codec | 06:26 |
| @rizen | Flip4Mac and FileJuicer support every version of WMV except MSS2 | 06:26 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer yeah...unless we force innodb on folks | 06:27 |
| @rizen | we can't have transactions | 06:27 |
| @rizen | and i don't think we can force that | 06:27 |
| PedersenMJ | What if I offer to convert to something else from the MSS2? | 06:27 |
| @rizen | for one, that's a fairly big change | 06:27 |
| @rizen | for another, it's slower than myisam | 06:28 |
| @rizen | pedersen, this is something i need to be able to do over and over again | 06:28 |
| @rizen | sending to you is not practical | 06:28 |
| perlDreame1 | is there any point in having transactional code in the core, then? | 06:28 |
| @rizen | yes | 06:28 |
| perlDreame1 | those two methods explicitly turn on commits before they start working | 06:29 |
| @rizen | i would like to support innodb for those willing to use it | 06:29 |
| @rizen | i did some minor testing when i implemented it back in 6.5 days | 06:29 |
| @rizen | or maybe it was 6.3 | 06:29 |
| perlDreame1 | okay | 06:29 |
| @rizen | but it hasn't been tested since then | 06:29 |
| perlDreame1 | I'll just make tests for, and fix the two methods then | 06:29 |
| perlDreame1 | with the exception of getLineage, everything else in AssetLineage is pretty well covered | 06:30 |
| PedersenMJ | JT: Not suggesting the same thing. I have an idea/theory, but need to test before I tell you it will/won't work. Any chance you can point me to a file that is encoded with that codec? | 06:30 |
| @rizen | the file i have was created using the record feature on www.gotowebinar.com | 06:31 |
| @rizen | but it is 500 mb | 06:31 |
| @rizen | so there is no practical way to get it to you | 06:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Lemme find another one online then. There's gotta be a small one I can try with. | 06:32 |
| @rizen | supposedly anything that does screen capture on windows uses MSS2 | 06:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Have you tried mplayer yet? | 06:34 |
| @rizen | can you get mplayer on the mac? | 06:35 |
| @rizen | and playback isn't what i need | 06:35 |
| @rizen | i need a codec | 06:35 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www2.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/releases/MPlayerOSX_1.0rc1.dmg | 06:35 |
| @rizen | a plugin for quicktime | 06:35 |
| @rizen | so that i can use it in iMovie and iDVD | 06:35 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh... Herm... That could be more difficult. | 06:36 |
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| cap10morgan | rizen: have you tried NeoOffice? Version 2.1 is pretty nice. | 07:20 |
| cap10morgan | (just reading over the "we're going back to open office" conversation) | 07:20 |
| cap10morgan | you probably already know this, but just in case: it's aqua-fied open office for OS X | 07:22 |
| PedersenMJ | rizen, I've gotta give up. I have yet to find an MSS2 codec for Mac (PPC, Intel). Or Linux. The only notes I saw for mplayer listed it as unsupported. | 07:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Best bet: Use vmware fusion and virtual dub (or virtual pc and virtual dub) to push it into some other format that *is* known under OSX, and use that. | 07:32 |
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| perlDreame1 | good night, guys! | 07:45 |
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| PedersenMJ | g'night all | 07:49 |
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| @rizen | everybody poops | 07:49 |
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| AMH_mari | Hi preaction, have filed bugreport as you requested yesterday (http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/webgui-hangs-on-package-export), Greetings, Mari | 12:16 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning! | 15:49 |
| ckotil | Pretty good. as long as you're not at va tech | 15:50 |
| ckotil | some asshat phoned in a bomb threat | 15:51 |
| SDuensin | Again?! | 15:52 |
| SDuensin | That's like three in two weeks. | 15:52 |
| ckotil | really. | 15:52 |
| ckotil | i didnt know that. | 15:52 |
| SDuensin | Yea, there were (I think) two a few days before the shootings. | 15:53 |
| AMH_bob | Good morning! | 15:53 |
| SDuensin | Hey AMH_bob | 15:53 |
| AMH_bob | Hey Scatt | 15:54 |
| AMH_bob | eh, Scott | 15:54 |
| Hinrik | they should have a campus bomb squad | 15:54 |
| SDuensin | Problem is, the place is a small city. | 15:54 |
| AMH_bob | VT, wasn't that the school with the selfmade Apple supercomputer | 15:55 |
| AMH_bob | ? | 15:55 |
| SDuensin | I think so. | 15:55 |
| AMH_bob | That was cool - much nicer to hear about than this really bad news | 15:55 |
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| ckotil | Anyone have a good way to notify groups about a pending version tag? | 16:08 |
| ckotil | ..say after 2 days of sitting idle | 16:08 |
| ckotil | im gonna try to write an activity to do this | 16:11 |
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| @rizen | i'm going to be offline all day, have to be vpn'd into a client's network | 17:28 |
| @rizen | later guys | 17:28 |
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| SDuensin | I'm guessing that "[wremonitor] <defunct>" in ps is a Bad Thing (tm)? | 18:22 |
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| SDuensin | Hey MrHairgrease | 18:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | hi | 18:30 |
| SDuensin | I think I just found the reason my WRE keeps blowing up. Testing the theory now. | 18:31 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 18:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | cool | 18:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm very busy right now | 18:32 |
| SDuensin | That's cool. I think I figured it out. wremonitor was mad about being on a multi-homed host. | 18:44 |
| SDuensin | Quick change to wremonitor.conf and I'm up and going! | 18:44 |
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| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, is this your homegrown WRE, or the binary? | 18:46 |
| SDuensin | Either. My compiled one did the same thing. | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | sduensin are you on gentoo? | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | well, consistency can be good.... ;) | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | i tried that once | 18:47 |
| SDuensin | CentOS4 | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | and that was a wasted weekend | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | dunno that one | 18:47 |
| SDuensin | What was happening is that I have four IPs + localhost... | 18:47 |
| SDuensin | I have x.x.x.37 running Apache 1.3 doing host-management type crap... | 18:48 |
| SDuensin | WebGUI is on x.x.x.38... | 18:48 |
| SDuensin | wremonitor was testing ports 80 and 81 on localhost. Apache 1.3 answered for 80, but not 81, so wremonitor reset WebGUI's two Apache servers. | 18:49 |
| SDuensin | I changed "hostname=localhost" to "hostname=x.x.x.38" in wremonitor.conf and I seem to be fixed! | 18:49 |
| SDuensin | Very simple fix for something that took me a week to find. :-) | 18:50 |
| * SDuensin is stupid happy at the moment! | 18:51 | |
| ckotil | wierd. | 18:54 |
| ckotil | did you try to use 127.0.0.1 ? | 18:54 |
| SDuensin | Actually, change that - no Apache's answer on 127.0.0.1 because I have each bound to their own IP so they don't conflict with each other. | 18:56 |
| SDuensin | I had to edit http.modperl.conf and http.modproxy.conf to listen on a single IP so my other Apache server (the third one) could also run on 80, but a different IP. | 18:57 |
| ckotil | ah. | 18:58 |
| ckotil | could you set modperl to port localhost:81 then give a unique ip to all the apache's? | 18:59 |
| SDuensin | Probably, but then wremonitor would fail looking for modproxy since nothing is bound to 80 on localhost. | 19:01 |
| ckotil | you can edit that. i thin | 19:09 |
| ckotil | k | 19:09 |
| ckotil | tho ive never used the wre...so i dunno for certain | 19:09 |
| SDuensin | I just put the IP in the wremonitor.conf. So far, so good. | 19:10 |
| ckotil | http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/ shwing | 19:11 |
| ckotil | that looks to be a good resource | 19:12 |
| SDuensin | page deleted? | 19:12 |
| ckotil | hrmm | 19:17 |
| ckotil | wierd. it works for me | 19:17 |
| ckotil | other people saw page deleted too | 19:17 |
| ckotil | http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/perl/cookbook/index.htm | 19:18 |
| ckotil | all the oriely books are here | 19:18 |
| SDuensin | Not for me. | 19:24 |
| nuba | ckotil: whoa that is old | 19:25 |
| nuba | i've seen that website not a few years ago | 19:25 |
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| ckotil | so you can axx it? | 19:25 |
| ckotil | everyone (including SDuensin) cannot | 19:26 |
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| nuba | guess .ua people aren't quite responsive about turning stuff down | 19:26 |
| nuba | cause lots of online book sites disappeared some time ago | 19:26 |
| ckotil | well they are doing a lot of blocking | 19:26 |
| nuba | looks like oreilly was on a witch hunt | 19:26 |
| ckotil | i imagine i can axx it bc of my .edu domain | 19:26 |
| ckotil | im mirroring ;) | 19:27 |
| nuba | weird thing | 19:28 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 19:28 |
| nuba | i get page deleted when opening it from a US-based machine | 19:28 |
| ckotil | right | 19:28 |
| ckotil | everyone ive showed the link to gets that as well | 19:28 |
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| SDuensin | Um, not everyone. :-) | 19:29 |
| wgGuest01 | I am thinking about building a house for sale by owner site, is webgui good for that? | 19:29 |
| SDuensin | WebGUI is a good idea for everything! | 19:29 |
| wgGuest01 | is it easy to build custom forms and collect images and data and then display it? | 19:29 |
| * SDuensin doesn't know about that. He's a n00b. <G> | 19:30 | |
| +perlDreamer | wgGuest01, you can do that with WebGUI | 19:31 |
| wgGuest01 | I was comparing it to drupal and how it seems fairly easy to put together a form with image upload etc in drupal, is it that easy in gui as well | 19:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | You can do it with the Collaboration System | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | or with the DataForm | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | or with the SQL Form | 19:31 |
| nuba | ckotil: checking the HTTP headers, from brazil and from US, im talking to the same apache | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | or, if you want, custom code | 19:31 |
| nuba | ckotil: only it gets a 403 forbidden reply from the US | 19:31 |
| nuba | ckotil: so looks like it's blocked by the site's owner | 19:31 |
| ckotil | ya | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Just be sure to read the freely available online docs before asking lots of questions. | 19:32 |
| nuba | ckotil: maybe to comply to some request that came from the US :) | 19:32 |
| wgGuest01 | ok, cool; thx perlDreamer. | 19:32 |
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| nuba | ckotil: happens sometimes.. you know, theres this thing in the US, called lawyers.. ;) | 19:32 |
| ckotil | right | 19:32 |
| ckotil | these books are quite outdated anyway | 19:33 |
| nuba | ckotil: they're everywhere.. its scary ! | 19:33 |
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| ckotil | perlbot: pastebin | 19:54 |
| perlbot | (see paste) | 19:54 |
| ckotil | perlbot: paste | 19:54 |
| perlbot | Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. | 19:54 |
| ckotil | http://erxz.com/pb/2262 | 19:56 |
| ckotil | workflow activity to remind users when a version tag is pending. to be included in the daily tasks workflow | 19:56 |
| ckotil | but....no email goes out. and there is a UI qwerk. when you click save it takes you to the edit workflow screen of the workflow you want to be reminded about. | 19:57 |
| ckotil | ODD | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | no errors in the WebGUI.log? | 19:58 |
| ckotil | nothting at all | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll try to look at it in a little bit. | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I have the sneaking suspicion that there's some form variable stomping going on though | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | Check out the HTML source for your edit form and look for duplicate variable names | 20:02 |
| ckotil | will do. | 20:11 |
| ckotil | ill try changing workflowID to something else. | 20:22 |
| ckotil | after lunch. ;) | 20:22 |
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| ckotil | what dictates the order of the form fields in the admin console? | 21:36 |
| ckotil | bc i cant make sense of it. seems like no rhyme or reason...or css. | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | it should be the same as the order in the definition sub. | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | but I gotta head to lunch myself | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | bbl | 21:38 |
| ckotil | k | 21:38 |
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| pjesi | ckotil: yes I know, it seems nondeterministic to me :) | 21:51 |
| ckotil | ;] | 21:51 |
| ckotil | the UI qwerk disappeared, when i changed those variable names | 22:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | w00t | 22:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | i just migrated 101 mailinglists from a majordom system to mailman | 22:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | and integrated everything with webgui | 22:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | and noone noticed! | 22:20 |
| ckotil | good job | 22:22 |
| ckotil | we use listserv | 22:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | listserv might have been a better choice on hindsight | 22:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | we have mainly private lists | 22:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | but the mailman webinterface allows everyone to request a subscription | 22:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | not that i grant those | 22:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | but still | 22:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | the whole form should not appear imo | 22:26 |
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| +perlDreamer | Does the WRE contain source for all the perl modules required by WebGUI? | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil: please paste your updated code | 23:48 |
| ckotil | k | 23:49 |
| ckotil | http://erxz.com/pb/2266 | 23:50 |
| ckotil | that workflow fieldType is convinient | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | very | 23:50 |
| @Haarg | your property is 'sendTo', but you have ->get("to") | 23:51 |
| ckotil | ah. | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | If you have time, you may want to write up a quick wiki article about Workflow Activity building, and note that the workflowId form variable is taken. | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | either that, or we can add it to the POD | 23:51 |
| ckotil | alright | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | it's buggy | 23:51 |
| ckotil | Ill do that | 23:52 |
| ckotil | to test this, what ive been doing is simply set the daily workflow task to execute every minute | 23:52 |
| ckotil | and i have a pending version tag | 23:53 |
| ckotil | execute via the scheduler. | 23:54 |
| ckotil | i hope that to field is what was preventing the email from going out | 23:54 |
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| --- Day changed Thu Apr 19 2007 | ||
| roastpork | I posted this question to pb forum but didn't get adequate answer. Is the required weather modules missing from the latest wre? | 00:02 |
| * ckotil shakes his fist at hte weather asset | 00:03 | |
| ckotil | it SHOULD be in the wre. | 00:03 |
| roastpork | OK, sorry. New to this stuff... | 00:03 |
| ckotil | everything should be. its a self contained cms in a box | 00:03 |
| ckotil | no problem, no need to apologize | 00:03 |
| roastpork | That's what i thought (self contained). | 00:03 |
| ckotil | the weather asset has caused me a lot of grief. still does on my development box :/ | 00:04 |
| roastpork | I'm trying to demo in process of selecting a new CMS and the weather asset is one of those "ooh that's cool!" | 00:04 |
| ckotil | yah, i can see it being very useful. | 00:05 |
| roastpork | Easy way to "insert missing" or just revert to source install? | 00:05 |
| ckotil | source install is more advanced | 00:06 |
| roastpork | Install is PITA, hope product turns out to be worth it. | 00:06 |
| ckotil | you really have to know the ins and outs of apache/modperl/perl/ | 00:06 |
| ckotil | i love it. | 00:06 |
| ckotil | http://globalnoc.iu.edu is my site | 00:06 |
| ckotil | we use webgui to automate all sorts of things | 00:07 |
| roastpork | From all indiactions it looks like something I'd enjoy working with. | 00:07 |
| ckotil | weekly reports, workflows, version control of our docvuments. | 00:07 |
| ckotil | hell ive even made it work as a document/knowledge repository | 00:07 |
| roastpork | Interesting, I'm from Indiana State. | 00:07 |
| ckotil | Im at IU bloomington | 00:07 |
| ckotil | you know chris barlow? | 00:08 |
| ckotil | bartlow* | 00:08 |
| roastpork | I'm new since Jan. so don't think so. | 00:08 |
| ckotil | cool. | 00:08 |
| roastpork | Well, I guess I'll tackle the source install, but hate cpan to mess up my beloved and well maintained rpm database. | 00:09 |
| ckotil | bang on the wre a little more | 00:09 |
| ckotil | it will get messy | 00:09 |
| ckotil | the source install, bc of cpan. | 00:09 |
| ckotil | theres literally 30 modules | 00:09 |
| roastpork | I'm not too terribly fluent with the perl module layout. is it something I could compile and just copy into wre directories? | 00:10 |
| ckotil | no everything you need should be contained within the wre. | 00:10 |
| ckotil | you might be missing some special compiler tho. but it uses standard stuff like gcc3 | 00:10 |
| roastpork | ok so if I use the perl/cpan from within wre I can do this?. i.e. installed into /data/wre.... | 00:11 |
| ckotil | yes it should all be contained within /data/wre | 00:12 |
| ckotil | tho, i wish someone else would verify that for me. | 00:12 |
| ckotil | i dont use the wre personallly. i run from source | 00:12 |
| ckotil | i was unable to ever get the wre to compile | 00:12 |
| roastpork | I'm just trying to get the binary wre to behave. | 00:13 |
| ckotil | good luck. im heading home. | 00:13 |
| roastpork | perhaps I should try to compile from source overbnight? | 00:13 |
| roastpork | Good evening. | 00:13 |
| +perlDreamer | You're not going all Gandalf on us, are you roastpork/ | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | Because you're not coming in for tea. | 00:51 |
| roastpork | I don't know what that means but I doubt it. I fixed it. | 00:55 |
| -!- roastpork [n=mcolliga@139.102.48.63] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] | 00:57 | |
| +perlDreamer | In the Hobbit, when Gandalf first came to visit Bilbo, he keep saying Good Evening. | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | Because he wanted Bilbo to invite him into tea | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | so he could get invited to tea later | 00:59 |
| +perlDreamer | That's when the dwarves started showing up | 00:59 |
| +perlDreamer | and they partied at his house and tempted him with thoughts of recovered dragon gold and adventure | 00:59 |
| +perlDreamer | He left late the next morning, and didn't even have a pocket handkerchief | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | (that part always chokes me up) | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | but in the end, he got a lot of gold, found out that he was braver than he thought, and earned the friendship of the dwarves | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, and a gold ring | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | but that's a different story | 01:03 |
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| @rizen | how goes it peeps! | 01:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | hey, man! | 01:28 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought you were VPN'ed all day today? | 01:28 |
| +perlDreamer | Did you just get done? | 01:28 |
| @rizen | just got done | 01:28 |
| @rizen | 7.5 hour upgrade | 01:28 |
| @rizen | mainly because their servers didn't have internet access, so i had to download everything to my laptop | 01:29 |
| @rizen | vpn in | 01:29 |
| @rizen | scp from my laptop | 01:29 |
| @rizen | and then do the upgrade | 01:29 |
| @rizen | and if i missed a package here and there | 01:29 |
| @rizen | had to disconnect download, reconnect, upload, etc | 01:29 |
| +perlDreamer | what kind of VPN software do they use? | 01:29 |
| @rizen | it's a standard pptp thing | 01:30 |
| +perlDreamer | On linux, you can use vpnc | 01:30 |
| @rizen | i believe the box on their end is cisco...but it doesn't require you to use the cisco client | 01:30 |
| @rizen | i'm on a mac | 01:30 |
| +perlDreamer | I know | 01:30 |
| +perlDreamer | That's a tease ;) | 01:30 |
| @rizen | hmmm...in that case, most shit just works, and i've never even thought about compiling a kernel module on my laptop | 01:31 |
| @rizen | =) | 01:31 |
| +perlDreamer | me either | 01:31 |
| +perlDreamer | I use rpm's | 01:31 |
| +perlDreamer | but you do have nice eye candy | 01:31 |
| @rizen | before i converted to mac i used to use linux as my desktop | 01:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and you didn't have any funky problems during the WUC last year either | 01:32 |
| +perlDreamer | like I did | 01:32 |
| @rizen | but i was sick of contantly having problems | 01:32 |
| @rizen | i couldn't get wifi to work | 01:32 |
| @rizen | and when i could get it to work it would only do 11mb | 01:33 |
| @rizen | not 54 | 01:33 |
| @rizen | and media files would never play | 01:33 |
| @rizen | and my video editing software would always crash | 01:33 |
| @rizen | and my 3d drivers would cause kernel panics every once in a while | 01:33 |
| @rizen | and i couldn't get drivers for my printers unless i bought hp | 01:33 |
| @rizen | it was a non-stop headache | 01:33 |
| +perlDreamer | which distro? | 01:34 |
| @rizen | i flipped around | 01:34 |
| @rizen | ubuntu for a while, fc 3, 4, and 5 | 01:34 |
| @rizen | and used a few others like linspire | 01:34 |
| @rizen | that one was the best | 01:34 |
| @rizen | and mepis | 01:34 |
| @rizen | linspire was the closest to "just works" i ever had on linux | 01:35 |
| @rizen | my problem with that was that there weren't any good dev tools for it | 01:35 |
| @rizen | unless you compiled everything from scratch | 01:35 |
| @rizen | and my scanner wouldn't work from it | 01:35 |
| @rizen | anyway...enough of me bitching | 01:36 |
| @rizen | i like my mac now | 01:36 |
| @rizen | check this out: http://www.lulu.com/plainblack | 01:36 |
| @rizen | we haven't announced it on our site yet | 01:37 |
| @rizen | but people are always asking for the vids and presentations from previous wucs | 01:37 |
| +perlDreamer | With the number of people on IRC, you probably just did. :) | 01:37 |
| @rizen | so we're going to start selling them on lulu | 01:37 |
| +perlDreamer | It's nice. | 01:37 |
| @rizen | 2004 is uploading now | 01:37 |
| @rizen | and next week kristi will start ripping the vids for 2006 | 01:37 |
| +perlDreamer | On the recordings, it would be nice to know how long they are, just out of curiosity | 01:38 |
| @rizen | 1-2 hours each | 01:38 |
| @rizen | but i can add that | 01:38 |
| @rizen | if you think people will want to know | 01:38 |
| +perlDreamer | It's probably just me. | 01:39 |
| @rizen | i've told kristi to put that on the page | 01:40 |
| @rizen | the url i just sent you isn't one we're advertising | 01:40 |
| @rizen | we promote all this stuff right from our site | 01:41 |
| @rizen | i debated whether to put the old wuc vids and presentations up there | 01:47 |
| @rizen | because i don't want to discourage people from coming from future wucs | 01:48 |
| @rizen | but i figured by pricing it the same as a WUC ticket, that would give them the option of having the stuff, without discouraging attendance | 01:48 |
| +perlDreamer | And missing out on Wisconsin? | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | Did you know how much train history is around Madison? | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | My kids are killing me to let them come and ride | 01:49 |
| @rizen | a lot | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | But two problems | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | 1) School is in session | 01:50 |
| @rizen | there's this cool restaurant here that's built inside of an old train | 01:50 |
| +perlDreamer | 2) The trains close weeks before the WUC | 01:50 |
| +perlDreamer | they'd like that | 01:50 |
| @rizen | sorry man, we tried to get it in september, but the hotels were all booked up | 01:50 |
| +perlDreamer | October is good | 01:51 |
| +perlDreamer | This might be my last WUC for a while | 01:51 |
| +perlDreamer | Kathy starts nursing school in '08 | 01:51 |
| @rizen | that's what you think | 01:52 |
| @rizen | i wont' let you not come | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | Maybe Mom would still come up and hang with kids while Kathy goes to school | 01:52 |
| @rizen | exactly | 01:53 |
| @rizen | are you still getting overrun at work? | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | Yes. | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | Although it takes a dark turn next week | 01:57 |
| @rizen | excellent | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I have to bench test someone else's chip. | 01:57 |
| @rizen | at least you're not bored | 01:57 |
| @rizen | oh | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd rather be bored, so that I could hack more ;) | 01:58 |
| @rizen | is that like peer reviewing someone else's code? | 01:58 |
| @rizen | if so, that's yucky | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | No, kind of like doing someone else's busy work | 01:58 |
| @rizen | ah | 01:58 |
| @rizen | even worse | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | Think about rebuilding the cache code in the http proxy asset | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | you look inside and go, ewwww | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | why the heck do I have to deal with this? | 02:00 |
| @rizen | uh...is it cuz that's what they pay you to do? | 02:01 |
| +perlDreamer | It's probably just me | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | But I expect a designer to test his own chip when it comes back from the fab | 02:02 |
| @rizen | it seems like the designer should | 02:02 |
| @rizen | and then 3 other people should | 02:03 |
| @rizen | just to make sure it's good | 02:03 |
| @rizen | cuz unlike software, you can't 'patch' a chip once it goes into production | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | well, you can. Kind of. | 02:03 |
| @rizen | really? | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | Few people do it in production because it's slow and costly | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | But RAM is kind of that way | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | RAM yields are really bad because they're so big | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | So they add in extra modules. | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | If one module breaks, they laser it out and enable a backup | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | There's a technology called FIB (Finite Ion Beam) where they can draw | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | new metal on a chip, one molecule at a time | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | It really allows rewiring, not full patching | 02:04 |
| @rizen | holy crap | 02:07 |
| @rizen | i had no idea that stuff was even possible | 02:07 |
| @rizen | i don't know if you've been on irc in the mornings lately | 02:08 |
| @rizen | but there has been a lot of peeps | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I know | 02:08 |
| @rizen | there were 19 people on yesterday morning | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | It's cool | 02:08 |
| @rizen | yeah | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I keep seeing posts on the boards about new people trying to get wG started. | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I think the v7 growth cycle has started | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | which means PB is in trouble, because the wave is coming | 02:10 |
| @rizen | phone brb | 02:16 |
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| @rizen | are we allowed to have both a perlDreamer and a perlmonkey? | 02:40 |
| @rizen | sorry for the delay | 02:41 |
| @rizen | twas my mom calling...she just got back from a trip to kentucky..so she was a bit chat happy | 02:41 |
| @rizen | all i can say to your previous comment is, bring it on | 02:41 |
| @rizen | we're already swamped...so what's a few more | 02:41 |
| perlmonkey2 | sometimes monkeys dream too. | 02:47 |
| +perlDreamer | time for me to head home | 02:49 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll be back on later tonight | 02:50 |
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| * PedersenMJ waves | 05:10 | |
| * SDuensin farts | 05:10 | |
| PedersenMJ | Too many bean burritos, eh? | 05:11 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 05:11 |
| * SDuensin does the happy dance! | 05:11 | |
| SDuensin | I fixed my crashing WRE today! | 05:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Good job! Though I'm at a loss to understand how the bean burritos fixed WRE. | 05:12 |
| SDuensin | GAS POWER! | 05:12 |
| SDuensin | Like Chris Taylor at Gas Powered Games. He named the company that because gas powered things are better than electric ones. | 05:13 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, okay... | 05:13 |
| * PedersenMJ tries hooking SDuensin up to a bizarro-world to English translator. Let's see if it works. | 05:14 | |
| SDuensin | :-) | 05:14 |
| * SDuensin has games on the brain. He's starting to write one with some friends. Just finished drawing out the first draft of the map. | 05:15 | |
| SDuensin | That map was the first time I've used a pencil in a LOOOONG time! | 05:16 |
| PedersenMJ | I've got one I would kill to see written. Too bad I don't have the math background to write it myself. | 05:16 |
| @rizen | SD, what kind of game? | 05:17 |
| SDuensin | Hey rizen ! | 05:17 |
| @rizen | howd | 05:17 |
| @rizen | howdy | 05:17 |
| SDuensin | Well, this first one is our "training wheels" game so we can get used to the tools and engine... | 05:18 |
| SDuensin | We're going to remake the 1981 Sierra On Line title "Mystery House" in true 3D for Windows/Mac/Linux. Mystery House was the very first adventure game with graphics. | 05:18 |
| @rizen | cool | 05:19 |
| @rizen | i wish i had the time to work on my own game | 05:19 |
| SDuensin | After that, I've got two more original titles roughly designed that we're going to attempt. | 05:19 |
| SDuensin | Yea, me too. :-) | 05:19 |
| @rizen | i used to make at least one game a year | 05:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Which tools/engine, SD? | 05:19 |
| @rizen | i haven't made one in 4 years cuz webgui took off | 05:19 |
| SDuensin | Still kind of undecided on all the tools. Engine is the Torque Game Engine from www.garagegames.com... | 05:19 |
| SDuensin | I've licensed almost all their software. We're going to use TGE instead of their advanced engine since the advanced one isn't portable and is still pretty rough around the edges. | 05:20 |
| @rizen | that's a good engine | 05:20 |
| SDuensin | Yep. It's come a long way in the past few years. | 05:21 |
| SDuensin | For a single-player game it's a bit awkward, but I figure we can rip out 99% of the server code. | 05:21 |
| @rizen | it can totally be used for a single player game | 05:22 |
| @rizen | several of my favorite single player games have been written using it | 05:22 |
| @rizen | bridge construction set for one | 05:22 |
| SDuensin | Yep. I've worked with it before and did a prototype single-player action game. Out of the box it's pretty much geared for shooters. | 05:23 |
| @rizen | i own nearly all the garage games | 05:24 |
| @rizen | love them | 05:24 |
| @rizen | all those indy devs make the best games | 05:24 |
| SDuensin | I agree. :-) | 05:25 |
| SDuensin | I bought Marble Blast Ultra on my 360. | 05:25 |
| @rizen | yeah that's a goodie | 05:25 |
| SDuensin | I get several of their other titles through GameTap. | 05:25 |
| @rizen | the most recent one i bought that is AWESOME is tube twist | 05:25 |
| SDuensin | Play with their new site yet? GreatGamesExperiment.com? | 05:27 |
| @rizen | nope | 05:28 |
| SDuensin | It's a neat idea. Think MySpace, but instead of being linked together by friends, you're linked together by gaming interests. (And the site doesn't suck.) | 05:29 |
| SDuensin | The goal is to get exposure for indie developers by matching up their titles with like commercial titles people have heard of. | 05:29 |
| @rizen | you know what i say | 05:30 |
| @rizen | fuck the fucking fuckers | 05:30 |
| SDuensin | I've thought about really beefing up my profile and going gangbusters on that site, but then I thought to myself... Why? I have WebGUI to run a site with! :-) | 05:30 |
| SDuensin | I FIXED MY WRE! WHOOOOO! | 05:30 |
| @rizen | sweet | 05:30 |
| @rizen | what was it? | 05:30 |
| SDuensin | My server has four IPs + localhost. Apache 1.3 runs all my hosting control panels and crap and is on x.x.x.37... | 05:31 |
| SDuensin | WebGUI is on x.x.x.38... | 05:31 |
| SDuensin | wremonitor was checking 127.0.0.1 and not getting an answer, so it'd kill the WRE Apache servers. | 05:31 |
| SDuensin | I changed "hostname=localhost" in wremonitor.conf to "hostname=x.x.x.38" and it's happy as a clam! | 05:32 |
| @rizen | hehe | 05:32 |
| SDuensin | Such a simple fix for something that took a week to find. :-) | 05:32 |
| @rizen | it's always the simple stuff | 05:32 |
| SDuensin | Yep! | 05:32 |
| SDuensin | It was annoying - I thought of wremonitor being the problem as I went to bed last night. Had a hell of a time falling asleep. I should have just got up and fixed it, but I waited until today. | 05:33 |
| SDuensin | Anyway, I've drawn my first draft of my game map. I'm going to bed. | 05:33 |
| SDuensin | Talk to you all tomorrow! | 05:33 |
| @rizen | later | 05:33 |
| PedersenMJ | l7r sd | 05:34 |
| PedersenMJ | erm, l8r SD | 05:35 |
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| cap10morgan | any tips for debugging commits that fail on line 108 of VersionTag.pm? (where it's calling $asset->commit() on an undefined value) | 06:17 |
| cap10morgan | this is in a custom wobject i wrote | 06:17 |
| cap10morgan | it works fine until i try to commit my changes | 06:17 |
| cap10morgan | then i get that error | 06:17 |
| @rizen | indeed i do | 06:18 |
| @rizen | https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision?rev=4004 | 06:18 |
| @rizen | that patch will at least tell you what revision of what asset cannot be instanciated | 06:19 |
| @rizen | if you would like, you could add further debug | 06:19 |
| @rizen | at that point | 06:19 |
| @rizen | where the asset is created | 06:19 |
| @rizen | s/created/instanciated/ | 06:20 |
| cap10morgan | cool, thanks | 06:20 |
| cap10morgan | hmm, well, it's the asset and revision i thought it was | 06:27 |
| cap10morgan | but i still don't have a clue why... :) | 06:27 |
| @rizen | you can wrapper it with an eval { } | 06:27 |
| @rizen | and find out | 06:27 |
| @rizen | why | 06:27 |
| @rizen | wait | 06:27 |
| @rizen | nevermind | 06:27 |
| @rizen | your log should say why | 06:28 |
| @rizen | if it doesn't | 06:29 |
| @rizen | then the only reason can be that the asset doesn't have full data | 06:29 |
| @rizen | meaning | 06:29 |
| @rizen | there is an entry missing in one of the tables | 06:29 |
| @rizen | asset, assetData, wobject, or your class table | 06:29 |
| @rizen | and start by looking at your class table | 06:30 |
| cap10morgan | and it just randomly committed... | 06:30 |
| cap10morgan | that's weird | 06:30 |
| @rizen | no | 06:31 |
| @rizen | the version tag commited | 06:31 |
| @rizen | the asset did not | 06:31 |
| @rizen | that patch i gave you | 06:31 |
| @rizen | skips the asset | 06:31 |
| @rizen | and continues on with the rest | 06:31 |
| cap10morgan | oh, ok | 06:31 |
| cap10morgan | there was probably a corrupt one in there from when i was working on the wobject's code and db table | 06:32 |
| cap10morgan | that makes sense | 06:32 |
| cap10morgan | thanks jt | 06:32 |
| cap10morgan | will that patch be in 7.3.15? | 06:33 |
| @rizen | yes | 06:35 |
| cap10morgan | cool | 06:35 |
| @rizen | i just added one more patch | 06:37 |
| @rizen | https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision?rev=4006 | 06:37 |
| @rizen | it won't tell you anything more than what i just told you | 06:37 |
| @rizen | but at least in the future you won't need me to tell you it | 06:38 |
| @rizen | =) | 06:38 |
| cap10morgan | :) | 06:39 |
| cap10morgan | cool | 06:39 |
| +Radix-wrk | trying to integrate different javascript stuff with webgui - what's the best way to handle different BODY onload requirements for different pages in webgui? | 06:40 |
| cap10morgan | very timely work you're doing there, jt :) | 06:40 |
| @rizen | indeed cap. just had that come up for a client today | 06:40 |
| @rizen | or maybe yesterday | 06:40 |
| +Radix-wrk | the <body> section is generally in the style template generally, but the rest of the javascript code is in an asset template | 06:41 |
| @rizen | radix...i stay away from body onload stuff | 06:41 |
| @rizen | cuz it's dangerous | 06:41 |
| @rizen | and error prone | 06:41 |
| @rizen | instead, i add a <script> block to the end of the section i'm dealing with, or i use YUI's methodology | 06:41 |
| +Radix-wrk | but it's used everywhere in custom scripts | 06:41 |
| @rizen | i understand that, but just because they say to use onload, doesn't mean you have to | 06:42 |
| @rizen | that just means you need to trigger something to happen | 06:42 |
| +Radix-wrk | so how else can I ensure it's called? | 06:42 |
| @rizen | as long as you understand when you need it triggered | 06:42 |
| @rizen | you can put a snippet at the bottom of the page you want it triggered on | 06:42 |
| +Radix-wrk | So I've created an image template.. and every page that has an object with that template on it I need it run | 06:42 |
| @rizen | the last thing | 06:42 |
| @rizen | and then add <script type="text/javascript"> callTheFunction(); </script> | 06:43 |
| @rizen | ok, you can put it at the bottom of that template then | 06:43 |
| +Radix-wrk | Ahh k | 06:43 |
| +Radix-wrk | So I could put that in the head section after the custom js/css is loaded then | 06:44 |
| @rizen | you have to put it somewhere where all the elements it interacts with will already be loaded | 06:44 |
| @rizen | so if all the elements are in the head block | 06:44 |
| +Radix-wrk | I suppose then if I had multiples it would be called multiple times if I did that.. okey.. so a snippet at the bottom of the page I can deal with | 06:44 |
| @rizen | then you're good | 06:44 |
| +Radix-wrk | yup.. makes sense - cheers | 06:45 |
| @rizen | if it must happen when the page loads | 06:45 |
| @rizen | still don't use onload | 06:45 |
| @rizen | because it's faulty | 06:45 |
| @rizen | instead use https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision?rev=4006 | 06:45 |
| @rizen | ooops | 06:45 |
| @rizen | http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/event/#onavailable | 06:45 |
| +Radix-wrk | okey.. I'll look into it | 06:46 |
| +Radix-wrk | trying to see if I can get lightbox.js working in webgui - as a template for an image object | 06:47 |
| @rizen | i thought that lightbox needed a list of images? | 06:47 |
| +Radix-wrk | can do either one, or many | 06:47 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.huddletogether.com/projects/lightbox2/ | 06:48 |
| @rizen | at 2007 wuc | 06:48 |
| @rizen | steve is going to have a presentation on folder | 06:48 |
| @rizen | and using lightbox with it | 06:48 |
| +Radix-wrk | neat | 06:48 |
| @rizen | along with some other crazy folder templating stuff | 06:48 |
| @rizen | i know you can't come to the WUC this year | 06:48 |
| +Radix-wrk | Wish I could go again this year | 06:48 |
| @rizen | but we'll be putting the content online | 06:48 |
| @rizen | afterwards | 06:48 |
| +Radix-wrk | Well hopefully he'll share his stuff afterwards :) | 06:48 |
| +Radix-wrk | cool | 06:49 |
| @rizen | http://www.lulu.com/plainblack | 06:49 |
| @rizen | we're putting up all the previous wuc's content | 06:49 |
| +Radix-wrk | title for that page is missing btw ;) | 06:49 |
| @rizen | its' still the price of the ticket | 06:49 |
| +Radix-wrk | 's Storefront | 06:49 |
| @rizen | good point | 06:49 |
| @rizen | anyway...it's still the price of a wuc ticket, but none of the travel costs | 06:50 |
| +Radix-wrk | Cool | 06:50 |
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| cap10morgan | i've got a basically working version of the Asset Report wobject | 06:53 |
| cap10morgan | which i'll post as a contribution soon | 06:53 |
| @rizen | sweet | 06:54 |
| cap10morgan | but it still has a lot of navigation code in it (i based it on the nav asset), which may or may not actually be necessary :) | 06:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | ahoy, guys, I'm back! | 07:02 |
| +Radix-wrk | yay! | 07:02 |
| @rizen | howdy | 07:03 |
| +perlDreamer | Have you all seen the new DataForm bug? About exporting tab deliniated data? | 07:03 |
| @rizen | nope | 07:03 |
| +perlDreamer | Bug? | 07:03 |
| @rizen | i've hired someone to look at bugs for me | 07:04 |
| @rizen | =) | 07:04 |
| +perlDreamer | Well, he's not here so we'll have to slum tonight | 07:04 |
| +perlDreamer | Besides, you're the only guy with design history | 07:04 |
| @rizen | actually i'm going to set nik on bug fixing all next week too | 07:04 |
| @rizen | bah | 07:05 |
| @rizen | you have design history | 07:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I do. | 07:05 |
| +perlDreamer | Yeah, I do. | 07:05 |
| +perlDreamer | Well, it is Michele | 07:07 |
| +perlDreamer | And I need to spend all of tonight cross-porting my pre-7.4 work anyway | 07:07 |
| @rizen | cross porting? | 07:08 |
| cap10morgan | ok, AssetReport is posted as a contribution | 07:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I made a separate tree for doing pre-4.0 work | 07:08 |
| @rizen | with screenshots? | 07:08 |
| cap10morgan | feel free to tear it to shreds :) | 07:08 |
| +perlDreamer | and I can't do anything with it because of the repo change | 07:08 |
| +perlDreamer | cap10morgan: does it have a test suite? | 07:08 |
| +perlDreamer | Help | 07:08 |
| +perlDreamer | i18n | 07:08 |
| @rizen | good job tearing it to shreds pd | 07:09 |
| cap10morgan | perlDreamer: it has i18n | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | cool! | 07:09 |
| cap10morgan | It's a pretty lame modification of the nav asset, truth be told :) | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | templates? | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, we need to show how to do this stuff | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | It will make your life much easier | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and encourage other people to use your things | 07:10 |
| @rizen | am i "dood" | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and make it about 10X easier to get it put into the core | 07:10 |
| cap10morgan | yes, it uses templates | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | then you need a template installer script | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and some sample templates | 07:10 |
| @rizen | you assume i want everything someone creates in teh core | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | no, rizen. Only the good stuff | 07:11 |
| +perlDreamer | and weren't you leaning this way anyway? | 07:11 |
| +perlDreamer | or is that "in the future" stuff? | 07:11 |
| cap10morgan | gotta run. feel free to tell me what else it needs in the contribution thread. thanks guys. | 07:11 |
| @rizen | oh yeah | 07:14 |
| @rizen | i want this kind of an asset | 07:15 |
| @rizen | i'm just not saying i want everything | 07:15 |
| @rizen | i dont' even want half the stuff that webgui does now | 07:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Let's get rid of it | 07:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Move it into contribs | 07:15 |
| @rizen | we'd have a huge mutiny on our hands | 07:15 |
| +Radix-wrk | surely that's what the config file is for tho? removing the stuff you don't want | 07:16 |
| @rizen | no..i don't want to support it | 07:16 |
| @rizen | i don't want to fix bugs in it | 07:16 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, what he said | 07:16 |
| @rizen | i don't want to document it | 07:16 |
| @rizen | i don't want to write tests for it (nor have pd do those things) | 07:16 |
| +Radix-wrk | Ahh :( | 07:17 |
| @rizen | i just wish i could find a way to make it easy for people to install custom plugins on a per site basis | 07:17 |
| @rizen | if i could do that, then i could get rid of all the crap i don't want | 07:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, I *know* that I'm going to be wrong in my thinking here, but in the overly simplistic world view that I have, wouldn't it be possible to store most of the config for the plugins in the database, have webgui read that at startup, and then maintain the list in memory while running? | 07:21 |
| @rizen | the config isn't the problem | 07:22 |
| @rizen | it's perl | 07:22 |
| @rizen | once you load a module in perl it's resident | 07:22 |
| @rizen | that means that you can't have two versions of the same thing | 07:23 |
| @rizen | and that also means that if one person loads something faulty | 07:23 |
| @rizen | it can blow up the whole server | 07:23 |
| @rizen | that's why letting people upload their own plugins won't ever work in webgui | 07:23 |
| @rizen | and from a security point of view | 07:23 |
| @rizen | even if people could upload their own plugins, i don't think i'd want them to | 07:24 |
| +perlDreamer | You mean on a shared server? | 07:24 |
| @rizen | that's one of the reasons that those PHP apps are so insecure | 07:24 |
| @rizen | people can just upload a plugin | 07:24 |
| @rizen | and who knows what it does | 07:24 |
| @rizen | of course on a shared server...on a non-shared server i have a solution | 07:24 |
| @rizen | and it's called WRE 0.8.0 | 07:25 |
| @rizen | it will have a plugin manager | 07:25 |
| @rizen | sorry, didn't mean to be sarcastic | 07:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Does perl have a concept of namespaces? (Yes, I just asked that question. I know some languages do, others don't, and I honestly don't know if Perl does or not). | 07:25 |
| +perlDreamer | It does | 07:25 |
| +perlDreamer | but not by version | 07:25 |
| +perlDreamer | If you use mod_perl and have two sites | 07:26 |
| +perlDreamer | and site #1 loads a plug-in | 07:26 |
| +perlDreamer | site #2 can see it two | 07:26 |
| @rizen | version numbers aren't included in the namespace | 07:26 |
| @rizen | though we could make plugins do that | 07:26 |
| @rizen | to solve the problem | 07:26 |
| @rizen | but that doesn't solve the security or blow up problem | 07:26 |
| +perlDreamer | What if we could have plug-in signatures? | 07:27 |
| +perlDreamer | Kind of like a PB blessing? | 07:27 |
| @rizen | so you have to get a certificate that says this module is blow up safe? | 07:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, here's where I would go to solve the problem in Python (which, I handle better than I do OO Perl): Make a namespace which has the name of the site, and then put the plugin under that namespace. Make the site search its own namespace first before searching a global namespace for a module. | 07:27 |
| +perlDreamer | sure. It's a service to plug-in writers | 07:28 |
| +perlDreamer | or to plug-in users | 07:28 |
| +perlDreamer | or both | 07:28 |
| +perlDreamer | Almost like SSL | 07:28 |
| +perlDreamer | You'd be the certificate authority | 07:28 |
| @rizen | but we'd have to charge for it, because it would take time to review the code and test it | 07:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Still doesn't handle the blow up or security issues, to be sure, but it could be a starting point for getting plugins more outside the core. | 07:28 |
| @rizen | and it would have to be reviewed for various versions of webgui as well | 07:28 |
| +perlDreamer | Sure you would, and that would give it authority and credibility | 07:29 |
| +perlDreamer | Plus, it's PlainBlack. You guys make WebGUI | 07:29 |
| +perlDreamer | No one else could do it | 07:29 |
| @rizen | i don't know if anyone would pay what it would cost to do it | 07:29 |
| @rizen | besides we're GPL, and therefore plugins have to be GPL | 07:30 |
| @rizen | so that means there isn't a license revenue stream that the developer could use | 07:30 |
| @rizen | to recoup that cost | 07:30 |
| +perlDreamer | People can still charge for GPL software | 07:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Look at RedHat | 07:31 |
| +perlDreamer | and Novell, ew. | 07:32 |
| @rizen | let's be realistic | 07:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Not effectively, though. RedHat doesn't charge for software, per se. They charge for support. | 07:32 |
| @rizen | nobody is going to do that for a webgui plugin | 07:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Novell... I don't even know what their business model is, honestly. | 07:32 |
| @rizen | i wish i had about a million $$$ to throw into webgui dev | 07:37 |
| @rizen | cuz i have so much stuff i want to do | 07:37 |
| +perlDreamer | What do you want to do/ | 07:38 |
| @rizen | and i even have ways to recoup that money | 07:38 |
| @rizen | the problem is that i don't have that money up front | 07:38 |
| @rizen | so i don't have a way to recoup it | 07:38 |
| +perlDreamer | You need investors | 07:38 |
| +perlDreamer | Or volunteers | 07:38 |
| @rizen | there are 8 apps that i would sell on a software as service basis | 07:38 |
| @rizen | they wouldn't be included in the webgui core | 07:39 |
| @rizen | but they'd run on webgui | 07:39 |
| @rizen | and people could subscribe to them | 07:39 |
| @rizen | in addition, i'd convert data form and sql form into "webdb" | 07:39 |
| @rizen | a new asset i've been dreaming up | 07:39 |
| +perlDreamer | Like Access for wG? | 07:40 |
| @rizen | i'd refactor the survey, dashboard, ws client, and sql report similar to how we refactored the calendar | 07:40 |
| @rizen | and i'd do all the commerce changes i've been planning all these years | 07:41 |
| @rizen | yes, like access for webgui...only instead of building stupid stuff you'd be building a web app all point and click like | 07:41 |
| @rizen | and finally, i'd build a web based style/template editor | 07:42 |
| @rizen | i plan on doing all these anyway | 07:42 |
| @rizen | it's just going to take years | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | that's a lot of coding | 07:42 |
| @rizen | because i can't hire people to do it all | 07:42 |
| @rizen | if i had a million, then i could hire 10 or 12 developers and have all that done in a year | 07:44 |
| PedersenMJ | now, bedtime for bonzo. G'night al. | 07:48 |
| PedersenMJ | erm, all, even | 07:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | paid or not, it sounds like fun | 07:54 |
| @rizen | so which one are you taking on then? | 07:54 |
| @rizen | =) | 07:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm already signed up to do testing and documentation for an open source project. | 07:55 |
| @rizen | are you talking about any project in particular | 07:55 |
| +perlDreamer | Yeah, it's called WebGUI | 07:55 |
| @rizen | one that starts with a w and ends with an i perhaps | 07:55 |
| @rizen | hehe | 07:55 |
| +perlDreamer | You're psychic! | 07:55 |
| @rizen | you know...you can do anything you want | 07:55 |
| @rizen | you don't have to do those things | 07:55 |
| +perlDreamer | I like the testing | 07:56 |
| @rizen | in that case, test away my friend | 07:56 |
| +perlDreamer | If you want to spec out another project, though, I'd be willing to take a break | 07:56 |
| @rizen | is there anything in there that sounds interesting to you? | 07:57 |
| +perlDreamer | Commerce rewrite scares me. | 07:57 |
| +perlDreamer | Asset refactoring could be very fun. | 07:57 |
| @rizen | any particular one? | 07:58 |
| +perlDreamer | Survey or SQL Report | 07:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I've worked in the WS Client | 07:58 |
| @rizen | ok | 07:58 |
| * perlDreamer shudders | 07:58 | |
| @rizen | hehe | 07:58 |
| @rizen | if that's the case, then i choose survey | 07:58 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 07:58 |
| @rizen | i'll have screenshots and a dev plan for you in a week | 07:59 |
| +perlDreamer | That will give me time to finish up my contract with Jamie, then. | 07:59 |
| +Radix-wrk | Cool.. got Lightbox all working and nicely embedded in an image template :) | 08:23 |
| @rizen | sweet | 08:23 |
| @rizen | what's the url? | 08:23 |
| +Radix-wrk | umm.. internal only atm - haven't used it on any public pages | 08:24 |
| @rizen | you suck ass | 08:24 |
| @rizen | dam aussie | 08:24 |
| @rizen | hehe | 08:24 |
| +Radix-wrk | I was hoping to package it up and put it in contribs | 08:24 |
| @rizen | that's the spirit | 08:24 |
| @rizen | aussies are cool | 08:24 |
| +Radix-wrk | for some wierd reason it doesn't work in ie7 - no idea why.. | 08:24 |
| @rizen | that's cuz ie7 is from nz not oz | 08:25 |
| +Radix-wrk | https://www.formsys.com/internal/staff/jesse/test-pages/lightbox-test | 08:27 |
| +Radix-wrk | made that page accessible for everyone | 08:27 |
| +Radix-wrk | I ended up using litebox.js in the end.. a stripped down version of lightbox | 08:28 |
| @rizen | nice | 08:28 |
| +Radix-wrk | because for some reason the proper lightbox2 wasn't sizing properly. | 08:29 |
| +perlDreamer | how do you minimize the image again? | 08:29 |
| @rizen | click on the icons in the upper right | 08:29 |
| +Radix-wrk | there should be a close bar at the bottom of the image | 08:29 |
| +Radix-wrk | tho there's a bug there too.. I see it fine on mine, but doesn't appear on another friends system | 08:30 |
| +perlDreamer | No close bar. Firefox on 1.5.0.9 | 08:31 |
| +Radix-wrk | may be a caching issue.. old css is being cached - as I had that prob initially, then updated the css. I'll try clearing the webgui cache and see if that helps. | 08:32 |
| +Radix-wrk | it's mostly working.. so I'm happy :) | 08:32 |
| +Radix-wrk | when i sort out the ie7 and close bar issues I'll try packaging it up and up it | 08:33 |
| +perlDreamer | It will be cool | 08:34 |
| @rizen | webgui would be cool if it just sucked less | 08:34 |
| +Radix-wrk | pd: can you try clearing your cache and load that page again and see if the close bar is there this time? | 08:36 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 08:36 |
| +perlDreamer | much better | 08:37 |
| +Radix-wrk | works now? | 08:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I get an animation while it loads | 08:37 |
| +Radix-wrk | cool.. was just cache then | 08:37 |
| +perlDreamer | and a close bar | 08:37 |
| +Radix-wrk | neat :) | 08:37 |
| +Radix-wrk | cache was giving out an old version of the css snippet for some reason | 08:38 |
| +Radix-wrk | cleared webgui cache and now it works !:) | 08:38 |
| +Radix-wrk | the ie problem is a killer atm tho.. just doesnt want to load at all | 08:53 |
| +Radix-wrk | I've no idea why.. ie7 seems to start to load the page, then stops totally and reports an error | 08:53 |
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| AMH_mari | Hi all, | 10:57 |
| AMH_mari | Does anyone know how to prevent WebGUI from adding a great number - about 800 in our case - 'Do Nothing on Deletion' work flows to spectre's queue? This happens e.g. when a folder that contains a lot of content (subfolders, assets) is deleted. Spectre debug mode shows that one 'Do Nothing on Deletion' workflow is handled every five to seven seconds, which makes WebGUI unresponsive for a long period (with 800 workflows): normal commits are added | 11:08 |
| AMH_mari | to the end of the spectre queue it seems. Any thoughts, anyone? | 11:08 |
| +Radix-wrk | Hi AMH_mari - wish I could help - but I've never seen that happen at all on my webgui setup - ask preaction/rizen perhaps when they're awake. | 11:12 |
| @preaction | you can delete those do nothing on deletion workflows from the database if you want | 11:12 |
| +Radix-wrk | On a different note - can I ask what the AMH bit of your name means? | 11:13 |
| AMH_mari | Hi Radix-wrk, thanks, will try later when I see them appear, timezones... | 11:13 |
| AMH_mari | We use the AMH_ prefix for IRC (we being AlphaMega Hosting employees). | 11:14 |
| +Radix-wrk | cool - you guys do a lot of webgui stuff? | 11:15 |
| AMH_mari | Delete the workflow? I tried to disable it, but that still puts something in the spectre queue it seems. | 11:15 |
| +Radix-wrk | Seems to be quite a few dutch companies doing webgui stuff.. procolix, united knowledge and you guys as well.. tis great to see :) | 11:16 |
| AMH_mari | We're just starting with webgui, lots of investigation going on here :-) | 11:16 |
| +Radix-wrk | cool - good luck with it then! :) | 11:16 |
| nuba | AMH_mari: did you try tweaking the "timeBetweenRunningWorkflows" setting at /data/WebGUI/etc/spectre.conf ? | 11:16 |
| AMH_mari | Hi nuba, aha, I wasn't of that setting. That may help to decrease the waiting time. Thanks, will try it. | 11:17 |
| nuba | and maybe "maxWorkers" | 11:17 |
| nuba | so that they can "do nothing" faster ;) | 11:17 |
| AMH_mari | :-) | 11:17 |
| +Radix-wrk | sounds like an awful lot of nothing going on | 11:18 |
| AMH_mari | It's named strangely indeed... What doest it do anyway? | 11:18 |
| nuba | yeah, you know, maybe you should outsource it | 11:19 |
| +Radix-wrk | probably nothing ;) | 11:19 |
| nuba | if you're doing a lot of DoNothing, then maybe we could use having a dedicated DoNothing engine | 11:19 |
| AMH_mari | The delete is very quick, seen from the browser, but then all those do nothing workflows :-) | 11:19 |
| +Radix-wrk | Well I'm off home to do nothing.. cyas! :) | 11:20 |
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| nuba | huh.. bye radix | 11:20 |
| AMH_mari | cu, Radix | 11:21 |
| AMH_mari | I think Heidegger would love it :-) | 11:22 |
| AMH_mari | Nothing I mean... | 11:23 |
| nuba | AMH_mari: did the tweaking help ? | 11:57 |
| AMH_mari | Could not test it yet: my perl template importer script was running. Will try as soon as it is finished. | 11:58 |
| AMH_mari | Yes! It does help: I have set the # of workers to 5 and the in between time to 0; spectre now goes through nothingness at full throttle :-) Thanks! :-) | 12:04 |
| nuba | awesome | 12:09 |
| AMH_mari | Spectre has already completed the 800 workflows. Apparently doing nothing takes no time :-) | 12:09 |
| nuba | you may want to leave the "timeBetweenRunningWorkflows" >= 1 | 12:10 |
| nuba | see the disclaimer | 12:10 |
| nuba | well not quite a disclaimer | 12:10 |
| nuba | the paragraph above the setting, in the config file | 12:11 |
| AMH_mari | Yep, saw it; I'll have this workaround enabled during development though :-) | 12:12 |
| AMH_mari | During normal use we'll not be throwing around 70 MB of templates, it's only now while we're converting them to WebGUI (automatically with a Perl script we developed). | 12:13 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning all! | 16:03 |
| ckotil | hello | 16:04 |
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| SDuensin | Morning, vayde | 16:15 |
| @vayde | Howdy | 16:15 |
| @vayde | How's things? | 16:15 |
| SDuensin | Mixed. :-/ Day is going fine, WebGUI is rocking right along, but I got a ticket in my drive in. Grrr. | 16:16 |
| @vayde | Gotta love it 'to protect and serve' eh? | 16:17 |
| @vayde | There was one camping in my parking lot when I got in | 16:17 |
| @vayde | enough to make a guy paranoid | 16:17 |
| SDuensin | Yea, well, I *was* speeding. And I got to give him credit - I have *NO IDEA* where he came from. Stealth cop! | 16:18 |
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| SDuensin | Hi cga | 16:18 |
| cga | hi SDuensin | 16:18 |
| AMH_bob | Welcome all | 16:32 |
| * SDuensin passes AMH_bob the coffee | 16:54 | |
| AMH_bob | Yep, just finished it (a co-worker just commented that he didn't understand why I would want to drink coffee in the afternoon...) | 16:57 |
| AMH_bob | I took a look at the YUI stuff that WebGUI seems to be using... SWEET! | 16:58 |
| @vayde | well, your company would probably frown on a beer in the afternoon... | 16:58 |
| AMH_bob | As far as ready-to-use javascripts, they're great! | 16:59 |
| AMH_bob | Actually, a glass of port on firday is kinda a tradition. | 16:59 |
| AMH_bob | (but I have to drive quite a bit, so I skip it) | 16:59 |
| @vayde | good sign you're working in a cool place. | 17:00 |
| AMH_bob | But beer sound good ! :P | 17:00 |
| AMH_bob | Yep, it's a pretty nice company to be working at! | 17:00 |
| SDuensin | YUI is interesting. I like the CSS layout features. | 17:02 |
| AMH_bob | I've barely scratched the surface, but it looks rock solid (as as far as cross-browsing javascript goes), the examples are nice and the documentation is OK. | 17:03 |
| SDuensin | I've been interested in playing with this one: http://qooxdoo.org/ | 17:05 |
| AMH_bob | Wow, that one looks pretty! http://demo.qooxdoo.org/current/showcase/ | 17:15 |
| SDuensin | Yea. I like it. Only reason I don't use it already is that my "WebOS" (I hate that term) project doesn't want to put any logic in the browser. | 17:20 |
| AMH_bob | YUI is BSD-license and QOOXDOO is LGPL - that's a big plus for both of them | 17:22 |
| SDuensin | Yea. I'm GPL because of the toolkit I use. Still, that's not bad - you don't have to open the apps you write to run on my system. | 17:23 |
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| AMH_bob | WebOS, as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_operating_system ? | 17:30 |
| ckotil | SDuensin: you use pxe boot? | 17:31 |
| ckotil | for the WebOS that is. | 17:31 |
| SDuensin | No. It's a Windows-like environment for writing applications that run inside your browser. | 17:32 |
| ckotil | o | 17:33 |
| SDuensin | http://zkdesktop.sourceforge.net | 17:33 |
| ckotil | here i am thinking that you will load an OS via the web to a machine | 17:33 |
| SDuensin | Whoo - just added myself to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_desktop | 17:36 |
| AMH_bob | Wow, a lot of people working on the WebOS front... | 17:44 |
| SDuensin | No kidding. | 17:44 |
| SDuensin | Like I said, ours is a bit different since you don't do anything client-side. The apps are written just like a desktop app. | 17:45 |
| AMH_bob | It sounds like a difficult market to be in... does it pay the bills? | 17:46 |
| SDuensin | We use it internally at work. They were nice enough to let me open it. | 17:47 |
| SDuensin | I'll likely use it for some more personal projects, but it's not something I aim to sell. At least, not any time soon. | 17:47 |
| SDuensin | If you download it and make it run, it's neat. However, it doesn't actually *do* anything since all our apps for it are proprietary. :-) | 17:48 |
| AMH_bob | It looks like my main project for the next year will be WebGUI all the way, no side tracks (except for cool stuff that WebGUI happens to use) | 17:57 |
| SDuensin | I'm doing a LOT of WebGUI, too. Just not at my "real" job. | 17:58 |
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| AMH_bob | Time to go home, cya! | 18:12 |
| SDuensin | Bye! | 18:12 |
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| SDuensin | Morning, bopbop | 18:19 |
| bopbop | morning | 18:20 |
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| SDuensin | Oooo! Ubuntu "Feisty Fawn" is out! | 18:35 |
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| @vayde | It rocks too! | 18:41 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 18:41 |
| SDuensin | Hey MrHairgrease | 18:42 |
| SDuensin | I'm running my Update Manager now. <G> | 18:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | hi | 18:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | what's a update manager? | 18:42 |
| SDuensin | <SDuensin> Oooo! Ubuntu "Feisty Fawn" is out! | 18:43 |
| @vayde | Lemme know how that goes | 18:43 |
| SDuensin | Yea, it'll be a good test. I'm using Kubuntu. :-) | 18:43 |
| @vayde | I've had bad luck with it, but I was using sudo apt-get dist-upgrade | 18:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | cool | 18:44 |
| @vayde | breezy ->dapper went badly, but that probably had alot ot do with the crazy hacks I had going in breezy | 18:44 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 18:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | I might try to dist-upgrade my laptop sunday | 18:45 |
| SDuensin | I figure it can't go any worse than XP->Vista. :-) | 18:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | if I have the time | 18:45 |
| @vayde | yeah, set the bar low enough, even a lame tortoise can jump over it | 18:46 |
| SDuensin | hehehe | 18:46 |
| SDuensin | "Update Manager" downloaded a "Distribution Upgrade" tool that is now doing the work. | 18:54 |
| SDuensin | WHOA! Removing 2 packages. 72 new packages. *758* to upgrade. 659 meg. | 18:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | small packages | 18:57 |
| SDuensin | Yea. | 18:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's downloaded in what? 4 minutes or so | 18:59 |
| SDuensin | Not over my cellular modem. | 18:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | it is over my 100 mbit line | 18:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 18:59 |
| SDuensin | It's looking bad for actually finishing while I'm at work. | 19:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | woot | 19:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | the ateam is on tv! | 19:01 |
| * MrHairgrease loves it when plans come together | 19:02 | |
| SDuensin | I pitty the fool who doesn't like Murdock. | 19:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | mudsucker! | 19:02 |
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| @vayde | SDuensin, how'd the upgrade go? | 22:34 |
| SDuensin | It's still (slowly) going. The update servers must be being slammed. | 22:39 |
| @vayde | they are, as far as I can tell. the download ones are toast. | 23:21 |
| SDuensin | I'm doing this in a VM. Going to be brave (or stupid) and suspend it and try to resume it when I get home. | 23:22 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI needs more bandwidth! | 23:22 |
| @vayde | wow. | 23:22 |
| @vayde | well, I'll be interested in how it goes | 23:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | pd: why | 23:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | you have a gbit line at home? | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | because the update and download servers are "toast". | 23:23 |
| @vayde | no, that's for Ubuntu Feisty | 23:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | ubuntu's are | 23:23 |
| @vayde | Just came out today, and there's a rush | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | well, in that case... | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | why aren't yall using torrents? | 23:24 |
| @vayde | Good thing I installed on Sunday | 23:24 |
| * SDuensin is trying it via the Update Manager. | 23:25 | |
| @vayde | I have a buddy that wants to upgrade yesterday. Hopefully I can recommend that to him | 23:26 |
| @vayde | I went for clean install. | 23:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | speking of ubuntu | 23:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | i have a wre for 6.10 compiled and tarred | 23:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | maybe it should be put on sf | 23:27 |
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| @vayde | cool. | 23:30 |
| @vayde | we should talk about that sometime | 23:30 |
| @vayde | I have to teach everyone ow to compile PHP into the WRE in october | 23:30 |
| @vayde | and that's 3 things I'm not qualified to teach yet. PHP, WRE, and compiling stuff. | 23:31 |
| SDuensin | Who in the wha? PHP for what? | 23:31 |
| @vayde | PHP in the WRE | 23:31 |
| @vayde | apparently it's possible | 23:31 |
| SDuensin | What is going to use PHP? | 23:31 |
| @vayde | nothing officially | 23:31 |
| @vayde | I just have to be able to explain how to do it if you want to | 23:32 |
| xdanger | just install it some where different and use the front proxy | 23:32 |
| SDuensin | Yea. What xdanger said. | 23:32 |
| @vayde | used through assetProxy I think | 23:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 23:32 |
| @vayde | hmm. I think rizen wants instructions on how to put it in the wre proper, if folks are interested in doing such a thing | 23:32 |
| SDuensin | If it uses autoconf, do: ./configure --prefix=/data/wre/prereqs/php; make; make install | 23:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | you should use mod_proxy | 23:33 |
| +MrHairgrease | anyway | 23:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | who can put the wre for ubuntu 6.10 online? | 23:34 |
| @vayde | JT, probably Jamie too, but I don't know if he comes here ever | 23:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'll send jt an email | 23:35 |
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| @vayde | He'll be so pleased, the big guy will tear up. | 23:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | I know | 23:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm good with people =) | 23:38 |
| SDuensin | "I'm a people person, dammit!" | 23:48 |
| @vayde | Hey, I like people... | 23:48 |
| @vayde | I like to hit them | 23:48 |
| * SDuensin is headed home. Later all! | 23:48 | |
| +MrHairgrease | later | 23:49 |
| @vayde | bye | 23:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | I like people to buy me beer | 23:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | to each his own | 23:49 |
| -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@198.sub-75-207-169.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] | 23:49 | |
| @vayde | oh, they buy beer... | 23:49 |
| @vayde | before, after, whatever | 23:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | ic | 23:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | the wuc's gonna be very interesting i think | 23:50 |
| @vayde | I'm gonna ask everyone to be nice, or if they have to be hostile, please keep their assaults on the physical level | 23:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | hmm | 23:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm more verbally oriented | 23:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | as i said | 23:51 |
| @vayde | dammit. I'm less prepared there | 23:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's gonna be an interesting wuc | 23:51 |
| --- Day changed Fri Apr 20 2007 | ||
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| cap10morgan | so let's say you were going to hook a CRM into WebGUI (which I'm doing this summer) and you wanted a single sign-on between the two... | 02:13 |
| cap10morgan | how would you pass auth credentials from WebGUI over to the CRM? | 02:13 |
| cap10morgan | i'm trying to come up w/ a list of options to compare | 02:14 |
| +perlDreamer | There was a thread just posted about that on the PB boards. | 02:14 |
| cap10morgan | oh yeah? | 02:14 |
| cap10morgan | killer | 02:14 |
| +perlDreamer | I think it was the dev board, but SSO was in the title. | 02:15 |
| cap10morgan | cool, thanks pd | 02:15 |
| cap10morgan | hmm, that's not really advanced enough for what i'm trying to do | 02:22 |
| cap10morgan | ideally there'd be a way to send some sort of session token over to the remote app that it turns around and verifies w/ webgui | 02:22 |
| +perlDreamer | hmmm.... | 02:23 |
| cap10morgan | so webgui would say, "hey, this user has an active session" and the remote app would say, "oh yeah? we'll see about that" before doing anything. | 02:23 |
| +perlDreamer | There is a user named Isaac | 02:23 |
| +perlDreamer | He talked with rizen on the customer support boards about that | 02:23 |
| +perlDreamer | using a cookie for auth | 02:23 |
| cap10morgan | are these the custom support boards that i don't have access to? :) | 02:24 |
| +perlDreamer | Probably, but check the dev board as well. | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I didn't know that you don't have access to them. | 02:25 |
| cap10morgan | oh, well, i just assumed they were the paid support forums | 02:26 |
| cap10morgan | but maybe that's not right | 02:26 |
| cap10morgan | i know there was some forum i didn't have access to that was showing up in my search results, but this months ago | 02:27 |
| cap10morgan | probably pre-7.0 | 02:27 |
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| cap10morgan | hmm, couldn't find it | 02:39 |
| SDuensin | "Did ya look behind the fridge? It's almost always behind the fridge!" | 02:39 |
| cap10morgan | i guess i could add something to the webgui and/or ldap auth modules that created a hash of the password and the current time to a certain precision that could be requested via the API (i.e. the login cookie) | 02:41 |
| cap10morgan | and then have a separate standard method that verified these cookies | 02:41 |
| cap10morgan | for given usernames | 02:41 |
| cap10morgan | and then beg rizen to make it a standard method for auth subclasses :) | 02:42 |
| cap10morgan | the verification method would always return false if the webgui session had expired | 02:43 |
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| +Radix-wrk | morning peeps | 03:52 |
| SDuensin | Hi Radix-wrk | 03:59 |
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| PedersenMJ | good evening | 04:31 |
| SDuensin | Hey PedersenMJ | 04:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Heya SD. How's things? | 04:40 |
| SDuensin | Not bad! Yourself? | 04:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Doing decent. Bit sluggish, having a hard time motivating myself to do webgui stuff, or my other big project (autorealm, ftr) | 04:41 |
| SDuensin | I know how that is. I wrote web service code all day. Whee. | 04:42 |
| PedersenMJ | I spent the day repackaging software so we could deploy it using active directory. And I expect to do much of the same for the next two days, at least. | 04:43 |
| PedersenMJ | So, actually, I envy you. | 04:43 |
| SDuensin | hehehe | 04:43 |
| PedersenMJ | Don't get me wrong, I know we need it, badly. I've been there for nearly two years, and just got permission to get a patch management system going at the end of February. And it's going to take me until sometime in June to complete all of this work. | 04:45 |
| SDuensin | I'm migrating old ASP and ASP.NET apps to my ZKDesktop platform. | 04:46 |
| PedersenMJ | But this is boring work. And it's damned near impossible to get much motivation to do something more right now. | 04:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Herm, zkdesktop looks interesting. | 04:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Something else I read today that I thought you all might like: http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/MeaningleBneB.aspx | 04:52 |
| SDuensin | OOo - I'm going to save that WTF for my morning reading. I hit that site every day. :-) | 05:00 |
| SDuensin | ZKDesktop is an interesting project. I love that my company let me open source it. | 05:01 |
| PedersenMJ | As do I. Though I go for the later in the day viewing, normally. | 05:01 |
| SDuensin | The architecture of our app is really robust, but it's really kinda overkill, too. Takes a long time to get things done... | 05:08 |
| SDuensin | Browser->ZKDesktop->JSON Web Service->C# Business Logic->iBATIS Object Relational Mapper->SQL 2005 Stored Procedure->FINALLY the Data! | 05:10 |
| PedersenMJ | I hear ya. It's part of why I'm abandoning C++ for AutoRealm. The goal: Make it so that any piece can be made in about 2 hours, with little or no prior work being done in the system. The reality: It takes me 6 to 8 hours to complete *one* module. | 05:10 |
| SDuensin | I'm guessing your AutoRealm isn't the free RPG mapping system Google found for me. :-) | 05:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, it is. | 05:12 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm working on the rewrite. | 05:12 |
| SDuensin | Oh! Cool! | 05:13 |
| PedersenMJ | But C++... I like the power of the language. But the complexity of doing simple things was just bogging me down too much. | 05:13 |
| SDuensin | My new side project is a 3D game. :-) | 05:13 |
| SDuensin | So what are you going to rewrite it in? | 05:14 |
| PedersenMJ | Believe it or not, Python. | 05:14 |
| SDuensin | I've only toyed with Python. The enforced white space annoys me. | 05:15 |
| PedersenMJ | Specifically, Python, using wxWidgets (http://www.wxpython.org/ ). | 05:15 |
| SDuensin | The latest thing I've been playing with that has me pretty impressed is Java + the Eclipse RCP. | 05:15 |
| PedersenMJ | It does me, too. But the rest of the toolkit and language gives enough benefits that I'm forcing myself to ignore how annoyed I am by it :) | 05:15 |
| SDuensin | Just a few months ago I was Mr. Anti-Java. After working in it for a bit, I love it! | 05:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Java is nice, very much so. Eclipse, too. If I find myself going back to it, I'll be using Eclipse, definitely. | 05:16 |
| SDuensin | The RCP is their "Rich Client Platform". Combined with the Visual Editor, you can create Eclipse-like apps pretty easily. | 05:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah. It's too bad that the one time I tried it, I found myself ticked off about the poor C++ support (yes, it's there, but it felt like it was a second class citizen). So, after that experience, I realized use Eclipse for Java, and something else for, well, anything else :) | 05:19 |
| SDuensin | Pretty much, yea. I used it once for a C project. Was just "ok". | 05:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Exactly. Everybody who uses it for Java seems to love it, though. | 05:21 |
| PedersenMJ | For me, I want to find (but haven't yet) a good Python IDE for OSX that gives me vim or vi-like editing modes. It's driving me crazy. And vim is good, but for Python, it lacks a bit. | 05:22 |
| SDuensin | OSX! | 05:25 |
| PedersenMJ | yes? | 05:26 |
| SDuensin | BEST! OS! EVER! | 05:26 |
| * SDuensin is on a loaded MacBook Pro. | 05:26 | |
| PedersenMJ | I'm working on saving up for a maxed out MBP (17", 3G, etc, etc) | 05:27 |
| SDuensin | That's what I got. 200G drive, AppleCare, wireless MightyMouse. Just topped 4k. | 05:29 |
| SDuensin | (And I don't recommend the mouse.) | 05:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, we're also talking about doing a Mac Pro for a media center machine, so for that, I'll probably still get the wireless mouse. | 05:32 |
| SDuensin | Buy someone elses mouse. Really. For example... | 05:33 |
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| SDuensin | Basic things like being able to pick the mouse up while dragging to reposition it. Can't do it on the Mighty Mouse. | 05:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Herm? Why not? | 05:35 |
| SDuensin | The way the "buttons" work cause the entire shell of the mouse to rock. If you lift it, it's no longer rocked against the switches and you lose the click. | 05:36 |
| SDuensin | It's also picky about having your fingers rest on it when you're doing both right and left clicks. | 05:36 |
| SDuensin | Squeezing it to "middle click" is kind of awkward, too. | 05:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, okay. Definitely will find a better alternative, then. | 05:37 |
| SDuensin | Aside from that, I *do* like it. It doesn't feel as good as my MS Laser Mouse (VERY nice), but it's not bad. | 05:37 |
| SDuensin | For serious work, I'll be using my MS Bluetooth mouse. | 05:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Personal favorite is an older (no longer made) Logitech mouse. Big hands, and this is one of the few mice that fit well. | 05:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, any chance you know where to download a prebuilt pygtk for osx? | 05:39 |
| SDuensin | See if you can find a Best Buy or someplace that has the wireless MS Laser mice on display. I really like it. I've used it every single day for almost a year and it just now started to warn me about needing new batteries. | 05:39 |
| SDuensin | Darwin Ports? Fink? | 05:40 |
| PedersenMJ | They had it, but it didn't work for pida, unfortunately. | 05:40 |
| SDuensin | Compare that battery life to my coworkers with rechargeable Logitechs that die if they forget to cradle them every night. | 05:40 |
| SDuensin | Hmm. Lemme look around real fast. | 05:41 |
| PedersenMJ | The one I'm talking about was a wired mouse, so I never had battery issues to worry about. | 05:41 |
| SDuensin | This is what I have at work and I love it: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=049 | 05:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, I've seen that one in stores on occasion, and tried it out. Seemed pretty decent at the time, too. | 05:44 |
| SDuensin | Does pygtk on OS X need X11? | 05:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Most likely it does. I was trying to avoid using that, though. I really am not fond of the X11 apps I've used so far under OSX. | 05:47 |
| SDuensin | I use it for GIMP Shop and Inkscape. Both rock. | 05:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Meh. It feels uncomfortable to use an X11 app on OSX. I'm glad it's there, but would prefer to use native. | 05:49 |
| SDuensin | I agree. Still, being able to use Inkscape made life MUCH easier for me tonight when I was mapping out my game. | 05:50 |
| * SDuensin doesn't know if AutoRealm would work. :-) | 05:50 | |
| PedersenMJ | Right now, no, it wouldn't. | 05:50 |
| SDuensin | I drew up an old school adventure game map. All boxes and lines. :-) | 05:51 |
| PedersenMJ | When next release can finally be done, though, it will, I think. I've still got some bases to cover to ensure certain standards can be held with python (for example: can I read xml files at a sufficient speed that large files will work well? Can I generate large numbers of random numbers using a PRNG written entirely in python, and do it with sufficient speed? | 05:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Hmmm... Just got an idea for home that might help me out. Idling for a minute. | 05:52 |
| SDuensin | k | 05:53 |
| SDuensin | This help? http://gtk-osx.sourceforge.net/ | 05:58 |
| * SDuensin has to run. I'll be back tomorrow! Night! | 05:58 | |
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| PedersenMJ | Sweet. I finally have a work space set up for me in my house :) | 06:22 |
| @vayde | ahh, a place of your own | 06:24 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah. First time in over 3 years that I've had a workspace I could actually feel comfy in. | 06:28 |
| @vayde | wow. you win for patience | 06:29 |
| +Radix-wrk | my workspace is usually set up before my bedroom is | 06:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Moved in with my then girlfriend 3 years ago. The place we moved into didn't have a good workspace. There was the attic, but we had too much stuff in it, and it was too hot. Now, she's my wife, we've bought our house, and I've got a decent place in what will be our library once we've got it all cleaned up. | 06:30 |
| @vayde | excellent. congrats | 06:30 |
| @vayde | I hope to have a house again someday. My ex took mine. | 06:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Thanks. Working on a couch sucked. | 06:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, ouch. That *really* sucks. | 06:31 |
| @vayde | depends on the couch I guess. I'm pretty happy with the one under me right now. | 06:31 |
| PedersenMJ | I got lucky with my ex (yes, married once, divorced, and am now married again). My ex wanted to buy a house, but I was not ready. Glad I wasn't, since she would've taken it, and handed me the mortgage payment. | 06:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Allow me to amend my statement: working on couch, and *no* table, sucks. TV trays are too high up to work at for an extended period. | 06:32 |
| +Radix-wrk | divorces suck - I agree | 06:39 |
| +Radix-wrk | been there, done that, lost the house | 06:40 |
| PedersenMJ | I got lucky: No house, no kids, no debt (neither of us had a credit rating that would let us incur debt). | 06:40 |
| PedersenMJ | And, when we came to actual divorce time, I had moved 2000 miles, filed in the new state, and was making less than her. She couldn't even *try* for alimony. | 06:41 |
| +Radix-wrk | I got done by a stupid divorce system that biased her simply because she had two kids from different fathers, couldn't work, and that was regarded as my fault - so she got half the house she never paid a cent for. | 06:42 |
| +Radix-wrk | I got to keep my superannuation though | 06:43 |
| +Radix-wrk | personally tho, I was just glad it was over :) | 06:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Damn. Sounds like she screwed you with a baseball. Which had rusty nails. And no lube. | 06:44 |
| PedersenMJ | s/baseball/baseball bat/ | 06:45 |
| +Radix-wrk | it's just a stupid divorce system really | 06:45 |
| +Radix-wrk | housewife = full time wage as far as the gov is concerned | 06:46 |
| +Radix-wrk | regardless of whether the kids are mine or not | 06:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, at least the gov't recognizes it as valuable there. Even though it does screw over people like you. Here in the states, it's rather looked down upon. | 06:48 |
| +Radix-wrk | anyway.. depressing subject.. lets move on ;) | 06:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay. Hey, know of any good references material on building watercooling systems? | 06:49 |
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| PedersenMJ | I'm working on a different kind of case for my servers here at home, and watercool seems like a much better idea in this case than air cooling, provided I can learn how to make a decent one. | 06:50 |
| +Radix-wrk | http://www.overclockers.com.au/wiki/Extreme_Cooling | 06:50 |
| +Radix-wrk | lot of guys using watercooling in oz - things get pretty hot over here during summer :) | 06:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Thank you. Bookmarking it now :) | 06:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Not going to be overclocking, but I *am* going to build a single case that will hold 3 (maybe 4) motherboards and their peripherals. | 06:54 |
| +Radix-wrk | you'll want some decent cooling then | 06:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Exactly. And, since the closet it's going into happens to have fixtures for washer and dryer, water cooling seems like it could be the right way to go. | 06:56 |
| +Radix-wrk | never gone for watercooling myself - but I knew several ppl who have | 06:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, of course, I'm only mildly crazy. I'm *not* going to making my own watercooling blocks. But, I can find out what to get, work on how to handle water distribution, etc. | 07:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, Radix-wrk | 07:11 |
| PedersenMJ | whereabouts do you live again? I'm installing X-Plane, and wonder what the town will look like in it. | 07:12 |
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| +Radix-wrk | heh | 08:37 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning all! | 15:51 |
| ckotil | hello | 15:51 |
| SDuensin | Hey ckotil | 15:52 |
| AMH_bob | Hi SDuensin, ckotil and all | 16:04 |
| * SDuensin is *still* upgrading Ubuntu. | 16:04 | |
| AMH_bob | Have you lost that SIGTERM error yet? | 16:13 |
| SDuensin | Yes! I found it! | 16:15 |
| SDuensin | It was being caused by wremonitor checking the wrong IP address of my multi-homed server. | 16:15 |
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| AMH_bob | Glad to head you solved it. | 16:32 |
| SDuensin | Me too! :-) | 16:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | sduensin | 16:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | just just upgraded 7.04 | 16:36 |
| SDuensin | Me too. It finally finished. :-) | 16:37 |
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| +MrHairgrease | the servers were pretty slow | 16:39 |
| SDuensin | Took me all day and all night to get it all. | 16:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | but it took oonly about 3 or 4 hours to download al 890 or so packages | 16:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | and it crashed in the final phase | 16:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | before reboot | 16:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | rebooted myself | 16:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | everything seems fine | 16:40 |
| SDuensin | Mine went smooth. No idea why it took so long to download it - my connection isn't that slow. | 16:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | mine neither | 16:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | but all the server are just being almmed | 16:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | slammed | 16:42 |
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| @vayde | Has anyone noticed a problem with the wG svn repository? | 17:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 17:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | but I haven't done any checkouts lately | 17:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | the webinterface still works though | 17:05 |
| @vayde | Hmm. wierd. problem is on my end then. | 17:06 |
| @vayde | yeah, that works for me too. | 17:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | are you using the coirrect url? | 17:06 |
| @vayde | I keep getting 405 Methohd Not Allowed | 17:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 17:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | let me check it out | 17:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'll have to do a co anyways | 17:06 |
| @vayde | https://svn.webgui.org/svnroot/WebGUI | 17:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's wrong | 17:07 |
| @vayde | It worked fine last week | 17:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | it should contain plainblack in there somewhere | 17:07 |
| @vayde | hmm. | 17:07 |
| @vayde | I'm still fumbling around with subversion. | 17:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | do you read the devlist? | 17:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | the correct url is: | 17:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI | 17:07 |
| @vayde | not yet. where is it? | 17:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | see jt's post: reorganizing svn | 17:08 |
| @vayde | ahh. there we go | 17:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | april 13th | 17:08 |
| @vayde | yeah, I suppose I should look there more often. | 17:10 |
| @vayde | I've been so focused... | 17:10 |
| * vayde kicks himself | 17:10 | |
| SDuensin | Hey vayde - upgrade of Ubuntu went very smoothly. | 17:10 |
| @vayde | excellent | 17:16 |
| @vayde | I knew they would smooth it out sooner or later | 17:16 |
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| SDuensin | Morning, rizen | 17:28 |
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| @rizen | howdy | 17:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | hi | 17:42 |
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| @rizen | volunteers anyone? | 19:29 |
| @rizen | there are a number of assets and subsystems in the WebGUI core that need to be refactored | 19:29 |
| @rizen | i'm finding that i don't have enough time to get them all done | 19:29 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer has already volunteered to refactor the survey engine | 19:29 |
| @rizen | i'm wondering if there is anyone else that would consider doing that | 19:30 |
| @rizen | i'm going to be drafting a specification for perlDreamer to work from | 19:30 |
| @rizen | and i'd do the same for you as well | 19:30 |
| @rizen | any takers? | 19:30 |
| ckotil | while i do have a bit of free time, i wouldntt know where to start | 19:30 |
| @rizen | you wouldn't know where to start cuz you don't know what needs to be done, or because you don't know perl? | 19:31 |
| ckotil | the latter | 19:31 |
| @rizen | ah | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | we can help you there, ckotil | 19:32 |
| @rizen | yeah, you need to know perl to do this | 19:32 |
| ckotil | heh | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | real time support over IRC | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | dev email list | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | JT's private phone number | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | the whole 9 yards | 19:32 |
| ckotil | i mean... i get by, but im not very good | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Dude, you're already writing workflows | 19:32 |
| perlmonkey2 | volunteers? refactoring? Do I get to put my name in the Authors file :D | 19:32 |
| @rizen | yes you do | 19:33 |
| perlmonkey2 | I'm very familiar with POE | 19:33 |
| ckotil | pd: true, but they rarely work as intended | 19:33 |
| perlmonkey2 | What kind of refactoring? removing duplicate functionality? | 19:34 |
| @rizen | unfortunately, there's nothing near the top of the priority list that has to do with POE | 19:34 |
| ckotil | i still see POE errors in my logs when i have a pending workflow. | 19:34 |
| ckotil | err. pending versiontag | 19:34 |
| @rizen | the refactoring that needs to be done is about improving usability, and adding features | 19:34 |
| @rizen | ckotil, that's probably a bug that needs to be fixed, not a complete refactoring of a subsystem | 19:35 |
| ckotil | k. | 19:35 |
| @rizen | perlmonkey, for example, the SQL Report asset needs an SQL builder wizard function, it needs graphing added to it, and some other clean up work | 19:35 |
| perlmonkey2 | Are these functions specced out, or should I just figure out how to add the functionality? | 19:36 |
| @rizen | perlmonkey, if you saw the old events calendar, and now see the new calendar, then you'll understand what i'm talking about | 19:36 |
| perlmonkey2 | I've only seen the new one. | 19:36 |
| @rizen | i would spec out anything you wanted to work on | 19:36 |
| @rizen | there are lots of subsystems that need some work too, but they are less critical than the assets that need an overhauling | 19:37 |
| @rizen | so let's start with assets | 19:37 |
| perlmonkey2 | Okay....I have some grant work I need to wrap up this afternoon. You pick some low hanging fruit to break me in easy and I'll start on it tonight. | 19:37 |
| @rizen | the assets that need work are: sql report, survey, web services client, event management system, project management & time tracking, wiki | 19:38 |
| @rizen | and the dataform/sql form need to be replaced by an entirely new asset | 19:38 |
| @rizen | which of those sounds most interesting to you? | 19:39 |
| @rizen | also...i won't be ready for you tonight. i'll spec out the new stuff over the weekend, and give you a document to work from starting on monday | 19:40 |
| perlmonkey2 | survey.....we use the survey here and I would love to add some more functionality :D | 19:40 |
| @rizen | in that case, perlDreamer, can i switch you to SQL report? | 19:41 |
| perlmonkey2 | In fact we are landing a massive new number of NIH grants and will be doing a LOT more work with the survey asset. | 19:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I can hop to something else | 19:41 |
| @rizen | sweet | 19:41 |
| +perlDreamer | but you know my JS/CSS fu is poor | 19:41 |
| ckotil | perlmonkey2: what do you do with the NIH? | 19:41 |
| ckotil | national institute of health right? | 19:41 |
| @rizen | alright guys, i'll get to work on drafting up these specs | 19:41 |
| * perlmonkey2 has mad JS-fu but CSS-fu is still grasshoppa. | 19:42 | |
| perlmonkey2 | ckotil: yep | 19:42 |
| @rizen | and pd, there's no better way to learn than to jump in | 19:42 |
| @rizen | =) | 19:42 |
| perlmonkey2 | ckotil: I work for a research center which works on several NIH/NSF grants. | 19:42 |
| ckotil | nice. | 19:42 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a lot of government usage of wG | 19:42 |
| +perlDreamer | seems like a lot | 19:43 |
| @rizen | if there's anybody else that's interested, please let me know here or email me via jt at plainblack dot com | 19:43 |
| ckotil | at oklahoma eh? | 19:43 |
| @rizen | i'm going to lunch, be back in a bit | 19:43 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: you can always drop a note on the dev list, too | 19:43 |
| perlmonkey2 | yeah, I love it here....work on campus and with psychologists which seem the coolest discipline of people. | 19:43 |
| @rizen | good idea | 19:43 |
| ckotil | im at indiana university, at the grnoc. making sure things run smooth on internet2 | 19:43 |
| perlmonkey2 | ckotil: how did you know that? | 19:43 |
| ckotil | your hostname ;-) | 19:43 |
| perlmonkey2 | oh...heh....Indiana....sounds like FUN. | 19:44 |
| ckotil | i like it here. | 19:44 |
| perlmonkey2 | later rizen: | 19:44 |
| SDuensin | Howdy, neighbor! | 19:44 |
| ckotil | going on 5 years. graduated last spring | 19:44 |
| * SDuensin is in Illinois. | 19:44 | |
| perlmonkey2 | ckotil: I'm thinking of starting school this summer. We'll see what's being offered. | 19:45 |
| ckotil | will the university foot the bill? | 19:45 |
| ckotil | IU will pay for 3 credits a semester | 19:45 |
| perlmonkey2 | ckotil: Yep :) MS for nothing and the clicks (it rhymed) for free. | 19:45 |
| ckotil | and the reason i was intriqued when you said nih, is that they seem to be the most consistent active user of Internet2 | 19:46 |
| perlmonkey2 | OU pays for 6 hours, but doesn't cover fees, which are substantial. | 19:46 |
| ckotil | hehe | 19:46 |
| ckotil | yah. got to love vista for $15 | 19:46 |
| perlmonkey2 | If I say I'll use it to do some work at home, I can get access to almost all of the MS product line. I haven't used that at all. | 19:47 |
| perlmonkey2 | NIH uses internet2? They push a lot of data around between sites? | 19:48 |
| SDuensin | I don't gotta love Vista for anything. :-P | 19:48 |
| ckotil | lunch. | 19:48 |
| * perlmonkey2 skips lunch to work on NIH so they'll have more data to push around on the internet2. | 19:49 | |
| perlmonkey2 | or maybe just because I waste to much time chatting on IRC :P | 19:49 |
| +perlDreamer | Here's one for all you Ubuntu geeks: http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130923-page,1-c,linux/article.html | 19:52 |
| * SDuensin already has all 7 tips covered. :-) | 19:53 | |
| @rizen | ckotil | 20:09 |
| ckotil | rizen: | 20:10 |
| @rizen | since you have volunteered, even though you shot down your own skills, would you mind if i work on coming up with a small project for you? | 20:10 |
| ckotil | I'm game. that sounds fine | 20:10 |
| @rizen | i don't want to overwhelm you, but we can always use more good contributors | 20:10 |
| ckotil | of course | 20:11 |
| @rizen | ok, i'll work on a spec for you this weekend as well. | 20:11 |
| @rizen | thanks | 20:11 |
| ckotil | np | 20:11 |
| @rizen | ckotil, how are your javascript skills? | 20:16 |
| ckotil | basic. | 20:21 |
| ckotil | http://pheezer.uits.iupui.edu/i2netproxy/ is about the extent of my js skills | 20:22 |
| ckotil | i guess i can pretty much make the DOM my bitch | 20:23 |
| @rizen | ok | 20:23 |
| @rizen | i'll keep that in mind | 20:24 |
| @rizen | i have about 10 ideas for small projects for you alredady | 20:24 |
| @rizen | already | 20:24 |
| ckotil | haha | 20:24 |
| ckotil | ok | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen thinks big | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | all the time | 20:26 |
| SDuensin | Make the Domme your bitch? Isn't that backwards? | 20:27 |
| ckotil | is it? | 20:28 |
| * SDuensin sighs. You people and your sheltered lives! | 20:29 | |
| SDuensin | (I also recommend not googling that term while at work.) | 20:29 |
| ckotil | heh | 20:29 |
| ckotil | i smell what you're baking now | 20:29 |
| ckotil | i dominate the dominatricies | 20:30 |
| SDuensin | :-P | 20:30 |
| SDuensin | I didn't spell DOM wrong on accident! | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | lunch | 20:36 |
| perlmonkey2 | Is there a dev.plainblack.com equiv? | 21:54 |
| @rizen | you mean a place where developers work? | 21:56 |
| @rizen | or something else? | 21:56 |
| perlmonkey2 | Some place to look at tickets. | 21:57 |
| perlmonkey2 | or specs | 21:57 |
| @rizen | oh, if you go to plainblack.com/rfe and plainblack.com/bugs you can see the stuff people have requested | 21:57 |
| perlmonkey2 | Really just wondering how developers collaborate? Btw, my PB uid is perlm in case you want to message me the specs. | 21:57 |
| perlmonkey2 | okay..cool. | 21:57 |
| @rizen | but i'm going to draw up a separate design document for you for the survey | 21:58 |
| @rizen | you'll be able to add in your own stuff too...we can collaborate back and forth before you start | 21:58 |
| @rizen | but i want to give you an idea of what i'm looking for, and that's what that design doc will do | 21:58 |
| @rizen | in general, devs collaborate on the dev mailing list or here | 21:59 |
| perlmonkey2 | This sounds like it is going to be fun. I'm the only dev here, so I'm starved for dev interaction. | 21:59 |
| @rizen | cool | 21:59 |
| perlmonkey2 | here == my job. | 21:59 |
| @rizen | rfight | 21:59 |
| @rizen | right | 21:59 |
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| +perlDreamer | perlbot: wre? | 22:25 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: WRE? | 22:25 |
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| --- Day changed Sat Apr 21 2007 | ||
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| cap10morgan | I'm trying to write a help file | 00:49 |
| cap10morgan | and at one point I'm saying 'name' => 'page.var.[var_name]' | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think it will like the brackets there | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | use some other character | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | __VAR_NAME__ | 00:50 |
| cap10morgan | ok, i'll try that | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | You can check the Collab System Help file for an example | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | in the userDefined variables | 00:51 |
| cap10morgan | yep, that did it. thanks pD | 00:53 |
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| @rizen | hmm | 01:29 |
| @rizen | forgot to ask perlmonkey2 what his email addy is | 01:29 |
| @rizen | so i could send him the design doc | 01:29 |
| @rizen | oh wait, he said he's perlm on the site | 01:30 |
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| SDuensin | Good evening! | 02:42 |
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| * perlmonkey2 wonders if beer or aspirin is better for a headache. | 03:50 | |
| @rizen | methinks perhaps a bullet to the head | 03:54 |
| @rizen | it would permanently alleviate any headache | 03:54 |
| @rizen | =) | 03:54 |
| @rizen | but if you don't have that, then asprin | 03:54 |
| @rizen | because the beer...at least too much beer...will cure your headache now, but give you a bigger one in the morning | 03:54 |
| @rizen | =) | 03:55 |
| SDuensin | Skip the beer. Go for something harder. :-) | 03:57 |
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| perlmonkey2 | I'm going with the beer......I have work to do my drunken monkey style is worthy of 70's kung-fu theatre. | 04:09 |
| perlmonkey2 | Although the bullet to the head idea, is a close 2nd. | 04:09 |
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| @rizen | perlmonkey2, you going to be around for a couple minutes? | 05:51 |
| @rizen | almost done with your specs doc | 05:52 |
| @rizen | its away | 05:58 |
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| @rizen | so as i was saying, vayde is a big fat liar | 06:50 |
| @rizen | oh...sorry vayde..didn't see you there | 06:50 |
| perlmonkey2 | I'm here now. | 06:51 |
| @vayde | eh? | 06:51 |
| @rizen | i emailed you the document | 06:51 |
| @vayde | liar too, but big and fat? | 06:51 |
| perlmonkey2 | kewl | 06:51 |
| * perlmonkey2 needs to print out that email as his very first corrospondance one a major person in the FOSS community. | 06:52 | |
| perlmonkey2 | s/one/with/ | 06:53 |
| @rizen | i'm not a major person in the FOSS community | 06:53 |
| @rizen | just a blip on the radar | 06:53 |
| @rizen | but ok..i'll take it | 06:53 |
| @rizen | =) | 06:53 |
| perlmonkey2 | WebGUI is kind of a big deal. | 06:53 |
| perlmonkey2 | =) | 06:54 |
| @rizen | in the CMS world it's kinda big | 06:54 |
| @rizen | but in the greater open source world | 06:54 |
| @rizen | it's no where as big as bsd, linux, mysql, apache, or firefox | 06:54 |
| perlmonkey2 | In a FOSS org chart, you'd be closer to the top than the bottom.....so like a said, a major person :) | 06:55 |
| @rizen | ok then...i'll shut up now | 06:55 |
| @rizen | i wonder who would be at the top of the FOSS org chart | 06:56 |
| @rizen | or if there even is a top | 06:56 |
| @rizen | there are so many people who are important for such different reasons | 06:57 |
| perlmonkey2 | My gut instinct in Linus, because I've met Stallman and he struct me as too (what is a polite way to say crazy). | 06:57 |
| perlmonkey2 | Good point. | 06:57 |
| @rizen | i've seen stallman in person, though i haven't met him, and he is not an impressive person | 06:57 |
| @rizen | linus is very important, but i think that ESR is just as important | 06:58 |
| @rizen | he wrote the first definitive book Cathedral and the Bazaar | 06:58 |
| @rizen | he helped write serveral open source licenses | 06:58 |
| perlmonkey2 | I really need to read that book. | 06:58 |
| @rizen | served as the head of the open source foundation | 06:59 |
| @rizen | and a bunch of other stuff | 06:59 |
| @rizen | it's a pretty good book | 06:59 |
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| perlmonkey2 | You ever notice that ESR kind of looks like Larry Wall? | 06:59 |
| @rizen | i've never actually seen ESR | 07:00 |
| @rizen | i've met larry though | 07:00 |
| @rizen | he's a really nice guy | 07:00 |
| @rizen | but a horrible public speaker | 07:00 |
| @rizen | =) | 07:00 |
| perlmonkey2 | I'd love to meet Larry Wall. | 07:00 |
| perlmonkey2 | Definetely one of my heroes. | 07:00 |
| @rizen | he's very strange... | 07:01 |
| @rizen | if i had to describe him, i'd say he's a cross of | 07:01 |
| @rizen | a hippy + fred rogers + einstein | 07:01 |
| perlmonkey2 | Hah, what a great combination. | 07:01 |
| @rizen | haarg, you're on late | 07:03 |
| perlmonkey2 | You are a pretty good public speaker. I've listened to you on Perlcast :) | 07:03 |
| @rizen | i'm ok...but it is something i aspire to be...a good public speaker | 07:03 |
| @rizen | i want to be a great public speaker at some point.. | 07:03 |
| perlmonkey2 | Not something I bet most programmers are born as. | 07:03 |
| @Haarg | i just reformatted. i've got windows set up pretty funky, so it takes a while. | 07:04 |
| @rizen | in college i got a c- in my speech class | 07:04 |
| @rizen | cuz i was always too nervous | 07:04 |
| @rizen | i c | 07:04 |
| @rizen | did you partition it so you could dual boot linux like you said you wanted to? | 07:04 |
| * perlmonkey2 can speak in front of people he knows, but large groups and he has trouble breathing, stutters and can't think. | 07:05 | |
| @rizen | pm, it's rough at first, but if you do it often enough, you'll get good at it | 07:05 |
| @Haarg | no, i have too much stuff. i can't clear enough space to do that atm. but a lot of the funkyness is from multiple drives/partitions. so if i clear some space, i can do that relatively easy. | 07:05 |
| @rizen | oh...haarg, i was going to ask you, i have some extra hard drives if you want them | 07:06 |
| @Haarg | that isn't the issue :) | 07:06 |
| @rizen | you could use them to have a linux drive | 07:06 |
| @vayde | Public speaking is like everything else. You practice, and it get's alright. My biggest crowd yet was 2500 | 07:06 |
| @rizen | oh | 07:06 |
| perlmonkey2 | This spec is awesome. The response driven part was always a PItA for entering surveys....This is definetely going to be fun. | 07:06 |
| @Haarg | i've already got 4 | 07:06 |
| @rizen | hehe | 07:07 |
| @Haarg | but with that much space, i tend to never delete stuff | 07:07 |
| @rizen | ok haarg | 07:07 |
| @rizen | any questions so far pm? | 07:07 |
| perlmonkey2 | nope, still reading through the spec | 07:08 |
| @rizen | pm, i agree the response driven surveys sucked before...by making it hierarchical rather than linked, it will be much much better | 07:08 |
| @rizen | sorry, i tried to keep it short, but it still turned into 5 or 6 pages | 07:08 |
| perlmonkey2 | No, the more the better. And I didn't they sucked, just difficult to enter. | 07:08 |
| @rizen | well what sucked about them was that you had to build the survey backwards | 07:09 |
| @rizen | enter the last questions first | 07:09 |
| @rizen | either that, or go back in and link all the questions after you had entered them | 07:09 |
| @rizen | btw..i left out a bunch of the nice the stuff i wanted to add to the list because i felt like it was already getting long in the tooth | 07:10 |
| @rizen | i could have added another 2-4 pages to the document with additional requirements | 07:10 |
| @rizen | but i didn't want to overwhelm you | 07:11 |
| perlmonkey2 | Looks like you have big plans for the survey. | 07:12 |
| @rizen | the survey could be a killer feature for webgui | 07:12 |
| @rizen | but right now it's barely a blip on the radar | 07:12 |
| @rizen | since you guys use the survey system, you'll probably do a better job making it your baby | 07:13 |
| @rizen | cuz you'll throw in all the cool tweaks that make it easier to use and more powerful | 07:13 |
| perlmonkey2 | Okay, tell me to shut up and read if this is answered further on, but in 2.2 a question can be attached to either an answer or another question. I understand that being attached to an answer means that answer should cause the question to be asked next. But what does it mean to be attached to a question? That if that question is answered (with any answer at all), then the attached question should be asked next? | 07:14 |
| @rizen | no, think of it as the "default" question to go to next | 07:14 |
| @rizen | if you look at the two exhibits at the end of the document | 07:15 |
| @rizen | it should be more clear | 07:15 |
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| perlmonkey2 | Yes, we paid BIG money for a survey system, which didn't work. I was then given 3 days to fix it or rewrite my own. I quickly wrote my own, which wasn't flexible and sucked. So half way through the survey period, I found your Perlcast and ported my surveys to WebGUI. Was definetely a good move. | 07:15 |
| @rizen | if a question is attached to another question, and some of the answers don't have questions attached to them, then use the "default" question | 07:16 |
| perlmonkey2 | okay, that makes perfect sense. | 07:16 |
| @rizen | exhibit a shows you a line of questioning | 07:16 |
| @rizen | and how you could follow a path to a logical conclusion | 07:17 |
| @rizen | pm, thanks for taking this on. it's really cool of you to do it. | 07:19 |
| perlmonkey2 | WebGUI is a really cool project that I'm glad to be able to contribute to. | 07:22 |
| perlmonkey2 | Plus this is really cool to be able to implement a "dream" survey system. Definetely going to be fun. | 07:23 |
| perlmonkey2 | I dig the drag and drop. | 07:23 |
| perlmonkey2 | Exhibit A is making me hungry. | 07:28 |
| @rizen | it's a yummy exhibit | 07:28 |
| perlmonkey2 | Is there a subversion/cvs repo, or should I use a nightly build? | 07:30 |
| @rizen | svn co https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI | 07:31 |
| @rizen | you can work against that | 07:31 |
| @rizen | but i'm not going to give you commit access until we branch for 7.4 | 07:31 |
| perlmonkey2 | I'd be afraid to commit to your project without some sort of vetting process. | 07:32 |
| @rizen | well yeah, there will be an initial code review after you have something to look at | 07:33 |
| @rizen | but that's a ways off at this point | 07:33 |
| @rizen | you just got the spec today | 07:33 |
| perlmonkey2 | Yeah....I'll try to put together a detailed design doc soon for you to approve. | 07:34 |
| @rizen | don't take what i gave you as gospel either | 07:34 |
| @rizen | if there's something you think could be better some other way | 07:35 |
| @rizen | feel free to shout it out | 07:35 |
| @rizen | likewise, if there are some features you want to add that i haven't listed, please let me know | 07:35 |
| * perlmonkey2 has this crazy idea of going nuts with the drag and drop. | 07:35 | |
| @rizen | if you've got the JS skills, do it | 07:35 |
| @rizen | but be sure to to use YUI as your foundation | 07:36 |
| perlmonkey2 | All the question types in a template box which they click on, fill out the wizard for question/answers, then place in the flowchart. The question and each answer having a node which other questions can be attached to. Perhaps the wizard defaulting the current question as being connected to the default of the previous question, and the user can move it from there. | 07:37 |
| @rizen | that would be amazing | 07:37 |
| @rizen | so you're thinking about doing my crazy workflow chart idea then? | 07:38 |
| perlmonkey2 | And yes, I spent some time checking out all the ajax toolkits and YUI was my favorite. I was very happy to see WebGUI used it too. | 07:38 |
| perlmonkey2 | Yes, that is just cool. | 07:38 |
| @rizen | i just threw that in there for a crazy thought...i didn't think for a second that you'd do it | 07:38 |
| @rizen | that's cool | 07:38 |
| perlmonkey2 | And YUI, while not making it trivial, makes it very doable. | 07:38 |
| @rizen | yeah, yui definitely gives you all the foundations for that sort of thing | 07:38 |
| perlmonkey2 | IE7 goes crazy if you use YUI to drag something to a DOM object that needs to be scrolled to the right to see. Firefox handles it like you'd hope. But IE7 went crazy and scrolled way to the right, but jumped back to the far right of the page when I dropped the object. This will pose a problem when the flowchart grows too large for the page. | 07:45 |
| @rizen | are you using the latest YUI, or the one that comes with webgui? | 07:46 |
| perlmonkey2 | This was from Yahoo's example page. | 07:46 |
| @rizen | the latest one supposedly fixed a bunch of ie7 bugs | 07:46 |
| @rizen | oh | 07:46 |
| @rizen | well, i guess we'll just have to put a warning in the help about it or something then | 07:47 |
| @rizen | don't make your workflow charts too big, or use firefox | 07:47 |
| @rizen | =) | 07:47 |
| perlmonkey2 | not sure which version. But I can think of a solution. Have the template frame always float on the page. FF users can drag from it to anywhere, while IE users will have to center the chart on where they want the next question. | 07:47 |
| perlmonkey2 | heh | 07:47 |
| perlmonkey2 | Okay, I'm turning in the for the night. Catch you on the flip side. | 07:48 |
| @rizen | later | 07:48 |
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| @rizen | ckotil are you here? | 18:40 |
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| @vayde | Radix_, You around? | 05:21 |
| @vayde | Can anyone tell me if there's a trick to the internationalization modules? | 05:23 |
| @vayde | It should just pull in the message from whatever key you give it with $i18n->get right? | 05:23 |
| +Radix_ | I'm around, but never used the internationalisation stuff I'm afraid. | 05:32 |
| @vayde | crap | 05:32 |
| @vayde | I've managed to break it in an interesting way | 05:32 |
| @vayde | well, not break I guess. | 05:33 |
| +Radix_ | oh? | 05:33 |
| @vayde | more like inability to use it | 05:33 |
| @vayde | User error I'm sure | 05:33 |
| @vayde | Ahh, there it is. Thanks Radix_ | 05:35 |
| @vayde | your mystical chi showed me the way... | 05:35 |
| +Radix_ | My inaction caused you to see the way grasshopper. | 05:35 |
| @vayde | You did without doing | 05:37 |
| @vayde | very wise of you | 05:37 |
| * Radix_ bows to vayde. | 05:37 | |
| * vayde bows back | 05:38 | |
| +Radix_ | http://www.amazon.com/Book-Stratagems-Tactics-Triumph-Survival/dp/0140169547/ref=sr_1_2/103-2377575-7044667?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177209806&sr=1-2 | 05:43 |
| +Radix_ | fascinating book | 05:45 |
| +Radix_ | if you like eastern philosophy and approaches to things I highly recommend it | 05:46 |
| +Radix_ | Wish I still had my copy :( | 05:51 |
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| @vayde | Cool. I'll check it out | 06:09 |
| @vayde | shh, PD is here. can't talk about the secret. | 06:09 |
| @vayde | might be a while before I check it out at that price though. yikes! | 06:11 |
| +perlDreamer | Remember when you were talking about not taking action unless provoked? | 06:18 |
| +perlDreamer | "The cat thinks it is safe sneaking up on the dog, until it sees the mirror." | 06:18 |
| +perlDreamer | Besides, you'll never get help with the i18n module without me ;) | 06:20 |
| @vayde | I figured it out. neener-neener! | 06:23 |
| +perlDreamer | doh! | 06:23 |
| +perlDreamer | wrong namespace? | 06:23 |
| @vayde | yep | 06:23 |
| @vayde | didn't catch on the the namespace argument | 06:23 |
| @vayde | most of the examples I looked at were in the default namespace | 06:24 |
| +perlDreamer | The test code has some great examples of how to use stuff. | 06:25 |
| @vayde | yeah, we need to go over that. I've been in deadline panic mode ever since we met. | 06:27 |
| @vayde | Hopefully it will ease up | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | There's no rush | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I was just pointing it out as a reference | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not into guilt tripping people | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | Unless I get lied to | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I hate being lied to | 06:27 |
| @vayde | I don't think anybody likes it | 06:28 |
| SDuensin | Hey vayde, that book can be found a LOT cheaper if you want it. | 06:41 |
| SDuensin | vayde (or Radix_) - http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&an=Harro+Von+Senger&y=15&tn=The+Book+of+Stratagems&x=30 | 06:42 |
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| SDuensin | WB vayde_ | 06:48 |
| vayde_ | dunno what it's problem is... | 06:49 |
| SDuensin | Did you get my text about that book? | 06:49 |
| vayde_ | Uh, no. Radix was talking about a book, but that's the only one I know of | 06:50 |
| SDuensin | Yea. Amazon has it for $106. That's nuts... | 06:50 |
| SDuensin | http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&an=Harro+Von+Senger&y=15&tn=The+Book+of+Stratagems&x=30 | 06:50 |
| vayde_ | that's a bit more reasonable | 06:51 |
| vayde_ | I wonder what they're smoking... | 06:51 |
| SDuensin | I love AbeBooks. :-) | 06:51 |
| SDuensin | Some time ago I bought a book that Amazon wanted $80-90 for from Abe for $4. With free shipping! | 06:52 |
| vayde_ | nice | 06:53 |
| vayde_ | I admit to being a terrible Amazon junkie, but even I have limits | 06:53 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 06:53 |
| SDuensin | They're fine for new items. Once you venture into the Z-Shops, it gets crazy fast. | 06:54 |
| +perlDreamer | What are Z-Shops? | 06:55 |
| SDuensin | Amazon's version of eBay. | 06:56 |
| SDuensin | You can set up your own "Z-Shop" and sell items there. | 06:56 |
| +perlDreamer | Hmmm... | 06:56 |
| +perlDreamer | How do they do on eccentric stuff? | 06:57 |
| SDuensin | A lot of them are crazy. And Amazon's out-of-print book locater is flat out insane for pricing. | 06:57 |
| SDuensin | Who? Amazon or Abe? Either way, go there and punch it in the search box. :-) | 06:57 |
| SDuensin | Abe is neat because it's a clearinghouse for small books shops all around the country. | 06:58 |
| SDuensin | You order from Abe and they get the seller to mail it to you. | 06:58 |
| +perlDreamer | how do they do on magazines? | 07:00 |
| SDuensin | Never looked. Good question. | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I need to track down a December 1922 copy of Century Magazine | 07:01 |
| SDuensin | Um, good luck with that. :-) | 07:02 |
| vayde_ | master, you ask the impossible | 07:02 |
| +perlDreamer | All things are possible | 07:02 |
| SDuensin | Oh yea? Make me rich! | 07:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't grant wishes. | 07:04 |
| +perlDreamer | But it is possible for you to be rich | 07:04 |
| +perlDreamer | It will take work, dedication and commitment. | 07:04 |
| SDuensin | "Patience. Yea, yea, yea... How long will that take?" | 07:05 |
| vayde_ | you guys dont know how close to the truth that skit is | 07:06 |
| * vayde_ shudders | 07:06 | |
| SDuensin | "Come on! I got the pajamas!" | 07:06 |
| +perlDreamer | Hmmm... | 07:07 |
| +perlDreamer | Well, a hardbound copy of Straw and Prayerbooks is $200 | 07:07 |
| vayde_ | you too shall be honored to learn a kesson... | 07:07 |
| +perlDreamer | A little outside of my price range | 07:07 |
| vayde_ | er lesson | 07:08 |
| +perlDreamer | It's out there somewhere | 07:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I need to find a copy of that magazine so that I can get a story from it republished in Guttenberg | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | they need an original to verify the copyright | 07:09 |
| SDuensin | I have no idea how you'd go about that. :-( | 07:11 |
| * SDuensin is outta here. Gotta catch up on my Stargate! | 07:12 | |
| +perlDreamer | Now you're talking! | 07:22 |
| * vayde_ is watching Empire. Gotta memorize Yoda's lines for class | 07:24 | |
| +perlDreamer | There is no try. Do, or do not! | 07:25 |
| vayde_ | No no no! There is no why! Nothing more will I teach you today. | 07:26 |
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| +Radix_ | SDuensin: thanks for the url - wasn't going to buy it from amazon, was just looking for the book again - and yeah.. $104 is a BIT too much for any book really ;) | 13:43 |
| +Radix_ | Amazon did have used hardcover versions for $13 tho | 13:45 |
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| @rizen | vayde or Haarg, i need an opinion if you're here and you've got a sec | 05:06 |
| @vayde | am here now | 05:31 |
| @vayde | wassup? | 05:31 |
| @vayde | rizen, I'm back at the deck | 05:32 |
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| @rizen | back at the deck? | 06:03 |
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| +Radix-wrk | "back on deck"? "back with a full deck"? "back, prepare to get decked"? | 06:14 |
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| vayde_ | rizen, what's up? | 07:06 |
| @rizen | ckotil volunteered to do some work on webgui core, but he's unsure of his skills | 07:07 |
| @rizen | so wants to start small | 07:07 |
| @rizen | i've been thinking about what to assign him all weekend | 07:07 |
| @rizen | but i'm struggling | 07:07 |
| vayde_ | not sure what you would call 'small'? | 07:08 |
| @rizen | i have lots of things to give him...but i'm not sure what is right | 07:08 |
| @rizen | what is too small | 07:08 |
| @rizen | what is too big | 07:08 |
| @rizen | for example, there are a lot of form controls that need refactoring | 07:08 |
| vayde_ | I don't think anything is too small really. Any success builds your confidence. | 07:08 |
| @rizen | like we need the date form controls to use the YUI calendar | 07:09 |
| @rizen | but that then requires that he figure out some javascript, and he said he doesn't know much javascript | 07:09 |
| @rizen | there are some workflow activities i could have him write for upcoming trigger poiints that will be in 7.4 | 07:09 |
| @rizen | for that matter, i could have him install the trigger points | 07:09 |
| @rizen | there are over a dozen of them i want to add | 07:10 |
| @rizen | so you see, there are lots of odd jobs | 07:10 |
| @rizen | i just don't know what to give | 07:10 |
| @rizen | with perlDreamer and perlmonkey2, it was easy. clearly defined objectives | 07:10 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer, please chime in here if you have advice | 07:10 |
| vayde_ | I'd start with small scope | 07:11 |
| vayde_ | he's not terribly familiar with perl? | 07:11 |
| @rizen | he knows perl | 07:12 |
| @rizen | he's written a workflow activity or two | 07:12 |
| @rizen | but he's not very experienced | 07:12 |
| vayde_ | if he's written workflows, that would be my suggestion as a place to start | 07:12 |
| @rizen | my understanding is he's more of a sys admin that has learned some programming | 07:12 |
| @rizen | but that's where i started from too | 07:12 |
| @rizen | the problem is that i don't have any "refactoring" work in workflow activities | 07:13 |
| @rizen | i have only new workflow activities that need to be written | 07:13 |
| @rizen | i figure that refactoring is easy | 07:13 |
| @rizen | cuz you don't need to start from scratch | 07:13 |
| vayde_ | maybe I'm not following. what do you mean by 'refactoring'? | 07:13 |
| @rizen | what you're doing with auth is refactoring | 07:14 |
| vayde_ | ahh | 07:14 |
| @rizen | it's adding functionality or cleaning up functionality | 07:14 |
| @rizen | that already exists | 07:14 |
| @rizen | but it's not building something from scratch | 07:14 |
| @rizen | it's the difference between me asking you to add a new type of password recovery to the auth system | 07:15 |
| @rizen | instead of asking you to write an entirely new plugin for the auth system | 07:15 |
| vayde_ | I follow. | 07:15 |
| @rizen | or even worse yet, writing a whole new auth system | 07:15 |
| @rizen | =) | 07:15 |
| vayde_ | for a sysadmin that would indeed be easier | 07:15 |
| @rizen | that's why i'm struggling | 07:16 |
| @rizen | most of the refactoring work i have for him is in the forms api | 07:16 |
| @rizen | but most of that involves javascript at some level | 07:16 |
| @rizen | and there's a bunch of new work to be done in the workflow stuff | 07:16 |
| @rizen | but it's all new, not refactoring | 07:16 |
| vayde_ | javascript isn't that bad | 07:16 |
| @rizen | i'm thinking about giving him trigger points to add | 07:16 |
| @rizen | it's relatively easy to do | 07:16 |
| @rizen | for example, there should be a trigger upon login | 07:17 |
| @rizen | and a trigger upon logout | 07:17 |
| vayde_ | that sounds like the best idea to me | 07:17 |
| vayde_ | a) within a system he's used | 07:17 |
| @rizen | triggers are pretty easy to add | 07:17 |
| vayde_ | b) within a language he understands | 07:17 |
| vayde_ | and if it's limited to the scope of the workflow world, that will help | 07:18 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd agree on the triggers | 07:18 |
| vayde_ | It's the OO interwoven-ness that has been my biggest problem | 07:18 |
| +perlDreamer | Always play to a volunteer's passions and experience before drawing them beyond it | 07:18 |
| vayde_ | hard to tell where everything comes from , it's so interwoven | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | Especially in Auth | 07:20 |
| +perlDreamer | but if you think that's bad, try to grok the Commerce System | 07:21 |
| vayde_ | I think that if you can limit the scope so that the interrelationships of the parts are clear, then your developer will pick it up faster. | 07:24 |
| vayde_ | hard to tell what's going on with the trunk, tail, ear etc, until you grasp that its an elephant. | 07:24 |
| vayde_ | then the details make more sense. | 07:25 |
| +perlDreamer | Sounds like you need a good Yoda quote for that one. | 07:27 |
| vayde_ | I'm drawing a blank. sorry | 07:27 |
| +perlDreamer | "Mudhole? Slimy? My home this is." | 07:28 |
| +perlDreamer | "You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes." | 07:28 |
| vayde_ | between Auth, workflow, and User | 07:29 |
| @rizen | vayde, why did you send me both AuthWebGUI.pm and WebGUI.pm | 07:29 |
| vayde_ | Remember a developer's strength flow from session | 07:29 |
| @rizen | oh nevermind | 07:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I like that one, vayde_ | 07:29 |
| vayde_ | I sent you everything I had to extend | 07:29 |
| vayde_ | to do what I thought you wanted | 07:30 |
| @rizen | vayde_: have you tested this code? | 07:34 |
| @rizen | and the other things that you've changed to make sure they still work | 07:34 |
| vayde_ | yes. I changed passwords 6 ways from sunday | 07:35 |
| vayde_ | keep in mind, I still don't know all the various interconnects | 07:35 |
| @rizen | you also tried the old way, to make sure that still works? | 07:35 |
| vayde_ | um, not today, now that you mention it. | 07:35 |
| vayde_ | hang on | 07:36 |
| vayde_ | I tried not to 'change' anything | 07:36 |
| @rizen | don't fight me on terminology...you touched that section of code | 07:36 |
| @rizen | which means it needs to be tested | 07:37 |
| vayde_ | I'm not playing terminology on you | 07:37 |
| vayde_ | I tried not to alter existing funcitons | 07:37 |
| vayde_ | but rather add ones I need, or use the existing ones | 07:37 |
| @rizen | ok, let me restate more clearly...it's not relevant what you tried not to do | 07:38 |
| @rizen | it's only relevant that you test all the code that you touched | 07:38 |
| @rizen | every corner | 07:38 |
| @rizen | of every method | 07:38 |
| @rizen | that was altered | 07:38 |
| @rizen | the reason i'm harping on this is that "i try" not to ever introduce bugs into my code | 07:39 |
| @rizen | but inevitably i do | 07:39 |
| @rizen | =) | 07:39 |
| +perlDreamer | He's trying to prevent you from months of self-recrimintation after breaking WebGUI in fundamental ways | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | that will make hours of work for you as you try and fix it | 07:40 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer has had such an experience | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | Kind of like what I did with the Great Form Fiasco of 2005 | 07:40 |
| @rizen | hehe | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | It was after that that I became interested in testing. | 07:41 |
| +perlDreamer | although we have no automated tests to help with that part of wG. | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | and testing the LDAP part of wG is nigh on impossible unless you happen to have an LDAP setup lying around. | 07:44 |
| +perlDreamer | That's something else we need to mock or create a test setup for. | 07:44 |
| vayde_ | I understand. I have tested the 'profile' password recovery. it still works | 07:44 |
| vayde_ | Believe me, JT, I am incredibly paranoid about screwing up the code I touch. | 07:45 |
| @rizen | cool...then please proceed to check it in when 7.4 is branched | 07:46 |
| vayde_ | What you originally took for 'inability to make decisions' was in fact just that paranoia | 07:46 |
| vayde_ | will do. Is that scheduled yet? | 07:48 |
| @rizen | no | 07:48 |
| +perlDreamer | It's the same time at Perl 6 is released, or whenever all the non-7.4 bugs are cleared out. | 07:49 |
| vayde_ | Ok, I'll hide em in some corner till then | 07:49 |
| @rizen | put the files out on the i drive | 07:49 |
| @rizen | there is a folder called webgui | 07:49 |
| @rizen | for 7.4 related stuff | 07:49 |
| vayde_ | even better. | 07:49 |
| vayde_ | 7.4 pre-branch folder? | 07:51 |
| @rizen | if you're at i/WebGUI then you're there | 07:52 |
| +perlDreamer | dang it | 07:57 |
| vayde_ | That's it for me. I'll see you all in the morning | 08:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | So how does one pronounce Nik' nom de IRC? | 08:03 |
| @rizen | "nick" | 08:04 |
| +perlDreamer | vayde spells "nick"? | 08:04 |
| +perlDreamer | vaydee? | 08:04 |
| @rizen | oh | 08:04 |
| +perlDreamer | vaydeh | 08:04 |
| @rizen | i was thinking like vader, without the er | 08:04 |
| @rizen | that's how i've been saying it | 08:04 |
| @rizen | but i don't know for sure | 08:04 |
| +perlDreamer | vayd | 08:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I can dig that | 08:05 |
| +perlDreamer | It's shorter than perlDreamer, anyway | 08:05 |
| @rizen | yeah, but you have cool initials pd | 08:05 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, man | 08:05 |
| +perlDreamer | are things leveling out at $dayJob? | 08:05 |
| @rizen | so you can do the short pd, or the full perlDreamer | 08:05 |
| +perlDreamer | or are you still burning the midnight oil? | 08:06 |
| @rizen | $jt->dayJob->destroy(); | 08:06 |
| @rizen | hehe | 08:06 |
| @rizen | it's getting better | 08:06 |
| @rizen | i had 4 18 hour days last week | 08:06 |
| +perlDreamer | oy | 08:06 |
| @rizen | but friday i only worked 7 or so | 08:06 |
| +perlDreamer | that is getting better | 08:07 |
| @rizen | unless you count the spec i wrote up for perlmonkey | 08:07 |
| +perlDreamer | and one for me | 08:07 |
| @rizen | yesterday i did yours | 08:07 |
| @rizen | and compiled a new wre for a client | 08:07 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, I'm going to ship it over to michele for consultation | 08:07 |
| @rizen | so i only put in 2 or 3 hours yesterday | 08:07 |
| +perlDreamer | she said she was interested in that as well | 08:07 |
| @rizen | ok | 08:07 |
| @rizen | btw...i forgot one critical thing | 08:08 |
| +perlDreamer | ? | 08:08 |
| @rizen | well not critical...but rather a crazy idea that would be super sweet | 08:08 |
| @rizen | let me look up an address quick | 08:08 |
| @rizen | it would be super sweet if you used SQL::Translator (http://search.cpan.org/~jrobinson/SQL-Translator-0.08/) to parse the queries, so that people could "re-edit' their SQL using the wizard, without having to start from scratch each time | 08:09 |
| +perlDreamer | and here I thought you wanted to add a natural language interface | 08:15 |
| +perlDreamer | phew! | 08:15 |
| +perlDreamer | p.s. Kathy says hi | 08:16 |
| +perlDreamer | and that you work too hard | 08:16 |
| @rizen | she wouldn't know that i did if you didn't tell her | 08:17 |
| +perlDreamer | It's not like you're in trouble or anything | 08:18 |
| @rizen | plus i bet i know someone else she knows that works just as hard as me | 08:18 |
| @rizen | right, but i want her to think i'm normal | 08:18 |
| @rizen | =) | 08:18 |
| +perlDreamer | Dude, I love you like a brother, but she's met you. | 08:18 |
| @rizen | don't want her to think i'm a bad influence on you | 08:18 |
| +perlDreamer | besides, she doesn't like normal guys | 08:18 |
| +perlDreamer | just whacko perl hacking, tuba playing types | 08:19 |
| +perlDreamer | time for me to crash out | 08:20 |
| @rizen | me too | 08:20 |
| +perlDreamer | I have to wake up early to finish a contract for Jamie | 08:20 |
| @rizen | ttyl | 08:21 |
| @rizen | ah | 08:21 |
| @rizen | yeah...get that done!!! | 08:21 |
| @rizen | i don't even know what it is | 08:21 |
| +perlDreamer | Event calendar changes | 08:21 |
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| greghacke | Anyone have a moment for an easy-ish java question? | 10:21 |
| greghacke | Well, what is probably a javascript question | 10:22 |
| AMH_bob | ok, javascript - just fire it | 10:34 |
| greghacke | function swapBadgeInfo(badgeId) { | 10:50 |
| greghacke | var selector = document.getElementById('badgeId_formId'); | 10:50 |
| greghacke | for (var i in badges[badgeId]) { | 10:50 |
| greghacke | var field = document.getElementById(i+'_formId'); | 10:50 |
| greghacke | if (field && badges[badgeId][i]) { | 10:50 |
| greghacke | field.value=badges[badgeId][i]; | 10:50 |
| greghacke | } else { | 10:50 |
| greghacke | if (field) field.value=''; | 10:50 |
| greghacke | } | 10:50 |
| greghacke | } | 10:50 |
| greghacke | } | 10:50 |
| greghacke | var selector1 = document.getElementById('badgeId_formId'); | 10:50 |
| greghacke | if (selector1) { | 10:50 |
| greghacke | swapBadgeInfo(selector1.value); | 10:50 |
| greghacke | } | 10:50 |
| greghacke | I want this to show default, etc. | 10:50 |
| AMH_bob | So if there is an badheId_formId element (an option list), you want it's fields filled with the values from the bagdes array | 11:04 |
| AMH_bob | Now, what do you mean when you say: 'I want this to show default, etc.'? | 11:05 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning all. | 15:51 |
| ckotil | hello | 15:56 |
| AMH_bob | Goodmorning! | 16:06 |
| SDuensin | Hello ckotil & AMH_bob | 16:13 |
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| @rizen | moring all | 17:18 |
| @rizen | man you guys start early | 17:18 |
| @rizen | or maybe i start late | 17:18 |
| @rizen | =) | 17:18 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 17:18 |
| * SDuensin starts at 7:30 CST. | 17:19 | |
| * rizen starts at whenever he gets up...but often doesn't finish until whenever he goes to bed | 17:19 | |
| SDuensin | I used to do that. | 17:20 |
| @rizen | i did it every day for 3 years when i first started pb/wg | 17:21 |
| @rizen | now i don't do it every day anymore | 17:21 |
| @rizen | weekends i usually don't work too much anymore | 17:21 |
| SDuensin | I made it four years before I burned out. | 17:21 |
| @rizen | and i try not to do it every night of the week | 17:21 |
| @rizen | it's roughest right after i hire new peeps (which i did 2 of in the past month) | 17:22 |
| @rizen | they are doing their work just fine | 17:22 |
| @rizen | but somehow my workload increases | 17:22 |
| @rizen | i think it's due to all the stuff that was piling up before i hired them | 17:22 |
| perlmonkey2 | Maybe you are busy overseeing the new employees to make sure everything is cool? | 17:35 |
| @rizen | there is a little of that sure | 17:36 |
| @rizen | i think it's also that my staff knows that since we've hired some staff to replace some of my duties, they feel that i'll have more time to help them with their projects | 17:36 |
| @rizen | last week i didn't complete a single task i set for myself to do. it was all stuff set for me by staff | 17:37 |
| @rizen | when you're the boss in a small company, there's only so much delegation you can do. you run out of staff quickly. and whatever is left over rests on your shoulders | 17:38 |
| perlmonkey2 | Sounds like you are crazy busy and that things are going well. You must be loving it. | 17:44 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 17:45 |
| @rizen | it's a good time | 17:46 |
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| @rizen | so perlmonkey2, have you had some time to digest the spec? | 18:47 |
| @rizen | any questions? | 18:47 |
| perlmonkey2 | I've looked through the spec a few times and started to come up with an implementation spec, but I have to finish a major milestone at work before I can move forward. | 18:48 |
| @rizen | totally understandable | 18:49 |
| @rizen | i'll leave you alone about it, and let you contact me if you have any questions | 18:49 |
| perlmonkey2 | I'm sure I will later on tonight :) | 18:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | good morning guys | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | What's up in the World of WebGUI? | 18:56 |
| @rizen | got a few more volunteers this morning | 18:56 |
| @rizen | some private shy ones | 18:56 |
| @rizen | =) | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | That's awesome! | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | We always thought that more devs would come out of the woodwork when 7.0 started to level out. | 18:58 |
| SDuensin | :-D | 18:58 |
| +perlDreamer | Art thou one of the aforementioned shy ones? | 18:58 |
| @rizen | now if we could just get that SD guy to do something | 18:58 |
| @rizen | =) | 18:58 |
| midellaq | hi all :-) | 18:59 |
| * SDuensin hopes to be when he has some more time. | 19:01 | |
| SDuensin | Seeing as how I'm moving my entire Web Empire to it, I'll be doing some hacking for sure. | 19:01 |
| @rizen | not to mention that the first assignment i'd give him is to migrate zkDesktop to wg | 19:02 |
| @rizen | =) | 19:02 |
| @rizen | hi midellaq! | 19:02 |
| midellaq | <-- coward shy guy here | 19:02 |
| @rizen | shy and coward aren't the same thing | 19:02 |
| @rizen | cowards take no action | 19:03 |
| @rizen | you're taking action | 19:03 |
| @rizen | so you're a shy hero | 19:03 |
| midellaq | well at least I *say* I want to do something | 19:03 |
| * SDuensin still wants to see the wG + ZDK roadmap. :-) | 19:03 | |
| @rizen | midellaq...are you saying you aren't going to do stuff then? | 19:04 |
| @rizen | sd: when you have time to do it, then we'll talk about it | 19:04 |
| midellaq | :-) I have time to spend | 19:04 |
| SDuensin | Well, I get paid to work on ZKD. If wG integration adds to the project, I may be able to do it at work. | 19:04 |
| @rizen | ok sd, then let me get the specs written i'm working on, and then we can talk about how having zk assimilated into the wide world of webgui will rock your boss' sox off, and be one of the coolest things ever added to webgui | 19:06 |
| SDuensin | :-D | 19:06 |
| @rizen | midellaq, did you get my email earlier today? does that sound like something you'd be interested in? | 19:07 |
| midellaq | sorry I didn't get it :-( | 19:07 |
| midellaq | was it @staff.dada.net reply-to? | 19:08 |
| @rizen | yes | 19:09 |
| @rizen | am i in your spam filter? | 19:09 |
| midellaq | can you send that again at midellaquila 'at' gmail.com | 19:10 |
| midellaq | sure not but maybe our corporate server is behaving paranoid | 19:10 |
| @rizen | sent | 19:11 |
| midellaq | ty :) | 19:11 |
| @rizen | twas very short | 19:11 |
| @rizen | but i didn't know if you'd feel comfortable discussing the details on irc | 19:11 |
| @rizen | that's why i sent the email | 19:11 |
| midellaq | read it... | 19:12 |
| midellaq | ok... I'll be waiting your draft.. | 19:13 |
| @rizen | ok, so you would be interested in doing that project then? | 19:15 |
| midellaq | sure | 19:15 |
| midellaq | what do you have in mind about ws client? | 19:15 |
| @rizen | sweet...how are your javascript skills? cuz there will be some ajax stuff that uses the YUI toolkit | 19:15 |
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| midellaq | I've eval'ed yui before... | 19:15 |
| @rizen | ok...i'll get to work on your spec document then | 19:16 |
| cap10morgan | does 7.3.14 not use the eventscalendar table anymore? | 19:16 |
| @rizen | i've already got two others in the queue before yours though | 19:16 |
| @rizen | cap: no | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | no cap10morgan. | 19:16 |
| @rizen | hasn't since 7.3.0 | 19:16 |
| cap10morgan | ok, good to know | 19:16 |
| @rizen | or rather, the 7.2.x series | 19:16 |
| cap10morgan | my .myi and .myd files disappeared for a few tables on some of my dev sites | 19:17 |
| cap10morgan | but the .frm files stayed, which causes problems | 19:17 |
| cap10morgan | but it appears to be only for those deprecated tables | 19:17 |
| midellaq | np.. I'll take a look at changes on wG since november... as I told you it's quite a long time since I quitted my last job | 19:17 |
| cap10morgan | strange | 19:17 |
| @rizen | yeah, it would be good to get up to speed a little | 19:20 |
| @rizen | but mainly since then we've been just fixing bugs | 19:20 |
| @rizen | the two newest things added are the wiki asset, and the calendar asset | 19:20 |
| @rizen | neither of which have any impact on the ws client | 19:20 |
| cap10morgan | is indexedsearch also no longer used in 7.3? | 19:21 |
| @rizen | nope | 19:21 |
| cap10morgan | ok, phew :) | 19:21 |
| midellaq | I see... | 19:21 |
| cap10morgan | is there an upgrade script somewhere back there that was supposed to drop these tables? | 19:21 |
| @rizen | yup | 19:21 |
| @rizen | and it obviously did drop part of them | 19:21 |
| cap10morgan | right, for some of the sites | 19:22 |
| @rizen | so there must have been something wrong (maybe corruption) or permissions problems | 19:22 |
| cap10morgan | yeah, could be | 19:22 |
| @rizen | for it not to drop everything | 19:22 |
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| cap10morgan | if i see it again i'll try to determine if there really is a bug worth reporting or just screwed-up-ed-ness on my end. :) | 19:22 |
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| midellaq | hi again! | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | she's back! | 20:24 |
| midellaq | she? | 20:25 |
| * perlDreamer inserts foot into mouth | 20:25 | |
| +perlDreamer | sorry, wrong IRC handle | 20:25 |
| midellaq | eheheh :-) | 20:25 |
| @rizen | yeah, very different michelle that is a girl | 20:30 |
| @rizen | california vs italy | 20:30 |
| midellaq | why vs. ? ;-) | 20:30 |
| @rizen | you're in italy, and the female michelle is in california | 20:31 |
| @rizen | the female michelle that has webgui fame | 20:31 |
| midellaq | :-) yes I was joking about that... | 20:31 |
| midellaq | is she online now? | 20:33 |
| @rizen | nope | 20:33 |
| @rizen | her handle is mlamar | 20:33 |
| @rizen | Michelle Lamar | 20:33 |
| * crythias mode (+o crythias ) by me | 20:34 | |
| midellaq | you can call me mike to avoid confusion :-) | 20:38 |
| @rizen | there is also a well known mike in the community | 20:38 |
| @rizen | we should just refer to you has midellaq | 20:38 |
| @rizen | and them as their handles | 20:38 |
| @rizen | keeps it less confusing | 20:38 |
| @rizen | s/has/as/ | 20:39 |
| midellaq | that's ok.. | 20:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | lunch | 21:29 |
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| -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.14 | WRE 0.7.2 ] The Great WebGUI Bugfix Day - http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/the-great-webgui-bufix | 21:37 | |
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| +crythias | so we stay on 7.pi until bugfix day is over? | 21:47 |
| SDuensin | 7.pi - hehehe | 21:47 |
| @rizen | could you restate the question? | 21:48 |
| @rizen | i understand 7.pi | 21:48 |
| @rizen | what i don't understand is the condition of your question | 21:48 |
| +crythias | actually, I'm not sure I want my "bu"s to be fixed :) :) :) :) | 21:48 |
| @rizen | listen here bitchy bear | 21:50 |
| @rizen | you will have your bu's fixed and like it | 21:50 |
| +crythias | with a sense of humor, I think I'm asking if the next iteration of WG is 7.3.15 or 7.4 (I understand 7.4 dev, but is that 7.4 release as well?) | 21:50 |
| +crythias | The Great WebGUI Bufix Day | 21:50 |
| @rizen | 7.3.15 will be out on wednesday | 21:51 |
| @rizen | the results of the great bugfix day will be 7.3.16 | 21:51 |
| @rizen | which will be out the following day | 21:51 |
| @rizen | thursday | 21:51 |
| @rizen | may 3 | 21:51 |
| +crythias | :) | 21:51 |
| @rizen | and 7.3.x will continue to get bug fixes until we're ready to release 7.4 | 21:52 |
| @rizen | which i would imagine won't be for a month or so after we branch | 21:52 |
| +crythias | ok.. Yung put this http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker in 7.4 | 21:55 |
| @rizen | right, that can't be fixed until 7.4 | 21:56 |
| @rizen | it's technically a bug, but it affects very few people | 21:56 |
| @rizen | and the change | 21:56 |
| @rizen | has the potential to affect a great more people than the bug itself | 21:56 |
| @rizen | therefore, it's not safe to include as part of 7.3 | 21:56 |
| +crythias | that's a longstanding issue, though, isn't it? | 21:57 |
| @rizen | yes it's been around a long time | 21:57 |
| @rizen | though nobody even caught it until a few months ago when yung reported it | 21:57 |
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| @rizen | but i can't really allow a bug to be fixed within a stable release if the cure is potentially worse than the disease | 21:58 |
| rbroen | Hi everybody, | 21:59 |
| SDuensin | Greetings. | 21:59 |
| +crythias | for the rss cache... maybe that can be emptied on workflow? | 21:59 |
| rbroen | could anyone tell me which html taste I should use? In other words, what doctype? | 21:59 |
| @rizen | webgui by default recommends XHTML 1.0 strict | 22:01 |
| @rizen | <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> | 22:01 |
| @rizen | but you can use any doctype you like | 22:01 |
| @rizen | crythias yup that could be a valid way to fix the problem | 22:01 |
| rbroen | Oh boy, strict!? Done right, that means a lot of html tweaking! | 22:04 |
| rbroen | How much html is generated by the core or by the modules (not counting templates) | 22:05 |
| @rizen | from an end user (site visitor)'s point of view there is no html generated by the webgui core that cannot be edited through a template | 22:06 |
| @rizen | however, some of the admin functionality is not templated | 22:06 |
| @rizen | but that you shouldn't have to worry about for your site design | 22:06 |
| rbroen | Ok, thanx | 22:07 |
| +crythias | rizen: is that a thing workflow has the ability to to do now? | 22:13 |
| @rizen | There is a clear cache function | 22:13 |
| @rizen | but only clears site cache | 22:13 |
| @rizen | not shared cache items such as RSS | 22:14 |
| +crythias | Yeah, I figured. | 22:14 |
| +crythias | so ... should I suggest this be a cron job thing? | 22:14 |
| @rizen | certainly | 22:14 |
| +crythias | OTOH, is this a "bug" in the fixable domain? | 22:15 |
| @rizen | what is OTOH? | 22:16 |
| +crythias | on the other hand.. | 22:16 |
| +crythias | sorry. | 22:16 |
| +crythias | I screwed up my english again. | 22:16 |
| +crythias | The cron job is a workaround for something that ... should it be "fixed" in WebGUI? | 22:17 |
| @rizen | i'm not sure whether it should go into the other cache cleanup modules, or if it should be it's own thing | 22:18 |
| @rizen | so just add the recommendation, and whomever fixes it can make that determination | 22:18 |
| +crythias | OK. I'm just trying to be helpful, seriously :) | 22:19 |
| @rizen | i know you are | 22:20 |
| @rizen | and i'm trying to provide you with good answers | 22:20 |
| @rizen | i'm sorry if i'm not | 22:20 |
| @rizen | vetting bugs is a very useful service | 22:20 |
| +crythias | No, it's all good | 22:20 |
| @rizen | if you can go through and decide whether things actually are bugs, or are RFEs | 22:20 |
| @rizen | and whether or not you can replicate the bug based upon the user's directions | 22:21 |
| @rizen | that can help a lot | 22:21 |
| +crythias | ooh. I'm turning admin on.. and it ends in a preposition :) :) :) | 22:21 |
| +crythias | hm. I'll RFE: Admin Mode/View Mode | 22:23 |
| +crythias | hrm. | 22:29 |
| +crythias | I'm having trouble with adding events to the calendar | 22:30 |
| +crythias | hey... the mouseover return showEvents ... | 22:33 |
| +crythias | is there a problem with trying to push the window "up" if it would go outside the table? or is this built into YUI? | 22:34 |
| @rizen | no idea what you're asking, sorry | 22:35 |
| @rizen | i haven't worked with the calendar much | 22:35 |
| +crythias | I'm working on the calendar bug... | 22:35 |
| +crythias | the one where show more won't show in IE6 if it hovers over the edge of a table | 22:36 |
| @rizen | i understand that...but there are almost 50 bugs on the list, so a url would be nice if you want me to comment | 22:36 |
| +crythias | np | 22:36 |
| +crythias | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1177356015_495/home (demo) | 22:36 |
| +crythias | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/calendar---pop-up-not-visible-in-ie6#IN9Za7R7OPkki4-AhF9EfQ | 22:36 |
| +crythias | (bug report) | 22:36 |
| +crythias | Things like walterzorn's hover account for this by moving the hover into the legit areas | 22:37 |
| @rizen | well we're removing walterzorn's thing from the core | 22:38 |
| @rizen | in favor of YUI | 22:38 |
| @rizen | so if that's the problem | 22:38 |
| @rizen | then that's also the fix | 22:38 |
| +crythias | I don't think it's involved at all | 22:38 |
| @rizen | but upon reading the bugfix, it sounds like both frank and knowmad have suggested solutions | 22:38 |
| @rizen | so there's nothing more for you to work on, unless you want to fix it yourself | 22:39 |
| +crythias | well, is this an RFE or a bug? | 22:39 |
| @rizen | something doesn't work as advertised | 22:40 |
| @rizen | therefore it's a bug | 22:40 |
| +crythias | ok, this would affect the template | 22:42 |
| +crythias | showEvents appears to be added to the template, not referenced. I apologize, I haven't dug in enough to determine which template, but likely the standard Calendar template. | 22:42 |
| +crythias | CalendarMonth, apparently | 22:44 |
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| +MrHairgrease | bugfix day | 22:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | cool initiative! | 22:45 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll see if my bosses will give me the day off | 22:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | cool | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'll try to attend too | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | depends on some factors though | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | and if I do | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'll prolly have a head start | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | tz's you know | 22:48 |
| +perlDreamer | well, if you get them all done we'll just go and drink beer instead | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | hmm | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | i think you've got that kinda backwards | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | the time you guys finish | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'll be drinking beer | 22:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 22:50 |
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| +MrHairgrease | did you guys already vote on the acme wcc btw? | 22:50 |
| * SDuensin has on his "Vote for HGR" T-Shirt. | 22:50 | |
| @rizen | i put in the "anybody but eurotrash" vote | 22:51 |
| @rizen | = | 22:51 |
| @rizen | =) | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure enough | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'd figure that =) | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | there are only 22 votes | 22:51 |
| @rizen | are you kidding, i had to vote for xeyes, it has an easter egg with me in it | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | which is not very much | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | vanity... | 22:52 |
| SDuensin | :-P | 22:52 |
| @rizen | keep in mind that we changed the thing to only allow votes from registered users | 22:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | i know | 22:52 |
| * SDuensin knew he should have put a "rizen" file on that ProDOS image! | 22:52 | |
| @rizen | that's going to reduce the number of voting peeps significantly | 22:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | but still | 22:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | there are 20 people already on the irc channel | 22:52 |
| @rizen | sd, i honestly don't remember who i voted for, or if i even voted at all | 22:52 |
| @rizen | i should go look to see if i voted | 22:53 |
| @rizen | yup, i did | 22:53 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 22:53 |
| @rizen | or at least i can't vote now | 22:53 |
| @rizen | so either i voted, or i excluded myself via privileges | 22:53 |
| @rizen | =) | 22:53 |
| @rizen | oh man, there's a tie | 22:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | heh | 22:54 |
| @preaction | not anymore, i forgot to re-vote | 22:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 22:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | there is | 22:54 |
| @preaction | if the others weren't so useful they'd've gotten my vote | 22:55 |
| @rizen | the 8ball macro isn't useful | 22:55 |
| @preaction | but it's just not as cool as xeyes | 22:55 |
| @rizen | especially since you can't even ask it what question you want. | 22:55 |
| @rizen | that's true | 22:55 |
| * SDuensin was the master of unuseful, but he didn't make the cut. Oh well. :-) | 22:55 | |
| +MrHairgrease | the 8ball is pretty cool though | 22:55 |
| +perlDreamer | I voted a while ago, but didn't the votes get expunged? | 22:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | image people shaink theior servers | 22:56 |
| @rizen | sd, i like yours for the retro quality | 22:56 |
| @rizen | it was like mine in that regard | 22:56 |
| @rizen | and i didn't make the cut either | 22:56 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 22:56 |
| SDuensin | Yea, but you have a reason to get cut. :-P | 22:56 |
| @rizen | bah.. | 22:56 |
| SDuensin | And, of course, after I did that one and the deadline passed, I thought of a couple more. | 22:56 |
| @rizen | i deserve to win the big prize!!! | 22:56 |
| * SDuensin needs to make a ^GamerTag() macro for Xbox Live! | 22:56 | |
| +MrHairgrease | rizen: you'l get it | 22:57 |
| @rizen | so MrHairGrease, did you get enough submissions from all of that to give yourself some stuff to talk about at the WUC? | 22:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | i've already devised another acme using your distinct mugshot | 22:57 |
| @rizen | oh buy | 22:58 |
| @rizen | s/buy/boy | 22:58 |
| @preaction | SDuensin: that would be awesome, srsly | 22:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | There's enough | 22:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | just dunno how i'm gonna do the talk yet though | 22:58 |
| @rizen | it will be a fun one though | 22:58 |
| @rizen | i always attend the martin talks | 22:58 |
| @rizen | they are the most entertaining at the whole wuc | 22:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's funny | 22:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | so do i | 22:59 |
| SDuensin | Better would be an asset where you can put in a gamertag or a Wii number. | 22:59 |
| * MrHairgrease slaps himself on the leg | 22:59 | |
| @rizen | well except for that "coffee talk" that koen did one year | 22:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | what's a gamertag or a wiinumber? | 22:59 |
| @rizen | that was hilarious | 22:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 22:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | that was great | 22:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | the scary thing is though | 23:00 |
| SDuensin | GamerTag is your identity on Xbox Live (and soon, Windows Live). Wii games have individual numbers for each title that identify you. | 23:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | that he's dead serious about that stuff =) | 23:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh ok | 23:00 |
| @rizen | i know...and that made it even funnier | 23:00 |
| SDuensin | You can use those names to display "cards" with your game info and scores and such on them. | 23:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | only b/c you did have to work for him =) | 23:00 |
| @rizen | ok, fair enough | 23:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | ah well | 23:01 |
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| +MrHairgrease | don't work for koen anymore | 23:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | just for joeri these days | 23:01 |
| @rizen | did joeri tell you that i'm no longer coming to holland this summer? | 23:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | no he didn't | 23:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | too bad | 23:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | i guess we'll go to america then | 23:02 |
| @rizen | they said that the whole hosc thing is all screwed up | 23:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 23:02 |
| @rizen | so it wouldn't be worth it for me to come | 23:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | who said that? | 23:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | joeri? | 23:02 |
| @rizen | joeri and arjan | 23:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | hmm | 23:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | could be | 23:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | im not into the hosc thing | 23:03 |
| @rizen | apparently they were planning a big webgui day there, and i was going to come over and do some talks | 23:03 |
| @rizen | but now they aren't even sure if hosc is going to happen | 23:03 |
| @rizen | cuz the organizers got into a big fight or something | 23:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 23:04 |
| @rizen | so they said that if they do organize something, that i'll just video conference into it like last year | 23:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | stupid leftwing communist eurotrash oss hippies! | 23:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 23:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | that'd be cool | 23:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'll try to watch it this year | 23:04 |
| pjesi | did I miss the WCC voting? | 23:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 23:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | voting is still open | 23:07 |
| rbroen | MrHair: HEY! We haven't gone to bed yet!? | 23:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | why should we? | 23:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's only 10pm | 23:07 |
| rbroen | :P | 23:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | otoh, now that you mention it | 23:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | sesame street has finished already | 23:08 |
| pjesi | btw, the url in topic is wrong | 23:09 |
| pjesi | http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/the-greate-webgui-bugfix-day | 23:09 |
| -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.14 | WRE 0.7.2 ] The Great WebGUI Bugfix Day - http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/the-great-webgui-bufix-day | 23:10 | |
| * SDuensin hands rizen a "g" | 23:11 | |
| @rizen | can i trade in the extra "e" that i put on the news post, to buy the "g" that i left out of the dev mailing list post? | 23:12 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 23:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | ah who cares | 23:12 |
| SDuensin | You'll care when you click it. | 23:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | not everone is a good spieler | 23:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 23:12 |
| SDuensin | "Klinger, fix the cake." | 23:13 |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrDishWasher | 23:17 | |
| +crythias | hrm | 23:30 |
| +crythias | darnit! | 23:40 |
| +crythias | I thought I almost had it. | 23:40 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: you around? | 23:40 |
| +crythias | I'll consider the options for the more hover... | 23:42 |
| +crythias | it *is* a template issue, but I can't figure it out. | 23:42 |
| +crythias | hee | 23:43 |
| +crythias | OK... | 23:43 |
| +crythias | I have "an" idea that kinda works. | 23:43 |
| +crythias | get this: if you take position:absolute out of the style, it does work - ish. | 23:44 |
| +crythias | wth is crythias on about? | 23:44 |
| @preaction | workish? | 23:44 |
| +crythias | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1177356015_495/home/untitled | 23:44 |
| +crythias | the problem: bottom of calendars can't show the full amount of "more" in IE6 | 23:45 |
| +crythias | well... if you take out "position: absolute;" you can see anything. | 23:46 |
| +crythias | although not as pretty as directly under the DAY, it's under the MONTH. | 23:46 |
| +crythias | what if you simply hid the data in a span? | 23:48 |
| +crythias | gobs of data. | 23:48 |
| +crythias | yuck | 23:48 |
| +crythias | well, whatever | 23:48 |
| @rizen | crythias, i can't really comment on this unless i'm digging into the problem | 23:50 |
| @rizen | and i don't have time for that today | 23:50 |
| @rizen | put all your comments and ideas right in the bug report | 23:50 |
| +crythias | np. gtg. | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: perlDreamer is in the channel | 23:53 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: pm? | 23:53 |
| +perlDreamer | I can't privmsg you, you're not registered | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | how 'bout AIM? | 23:54 |
| @preaction | i'm registered and identified? | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I must have mistyped your name | 23:54 |
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| @rizen | i want to throw out a controversial idea | 23:56 |
| @preaction | ooh i love controversy | 23:56 |
| @rizen | i say that common "publishing" functions like pages, articles, navigation, forums, polls, etc need to be templatable | 23:56 |
| @rizen | and in fact are not nearly as useful if they aren't templatable | 23:56 |
| @preaction | so the edit forms for those assets? | 23:57 |
| @rizen | but as we move into "application" territory, things like Project Management and Time Tracking,they SHOULD NOT be templatable | 23:57 |
| @rizen | you should be able to change colors and whatnot via CSS | 23:57 |
| @preaction | oh, i see now | 23:58 |
| @rizen | but when you get really complicated apps, making them templatable makes them slower, and much easier to break if the user does delve into the templates for them | 23:58 |
| @rizen | this is especially true as we move further and further into the ajax territory | 23:58 |
| @rizen | What i can't decide is if they flat out should not be allowed to be templated, or if they should be templated, but users should be discouraged from editing those templates | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Tue Apr 24 2007 | ||
| @rizen | anybody have any input | 00:00 |
| @preaction | i can see the argument for abolishing templates for certain apps, at the same time they may want to add other functionality or formatting to these apps (such as additional javascript) | 00:01 |
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| @preaction | opening the template and seeing something intricate, screwing it up and having to rollback the version tag is probably pretty discouraging | 00:02 |
| perlmonkey2 | If they want to modify an application, this is a OSS project, why not force them to submit functionality to the source tree? | 00:02 |
| @preaction | so i'd say "stay the course" | 00:02 |
| @preaction | perlmonkey2: what if it's only useful in their application, such as a custom macro to interface with some proprietary software? | 00:04 |
| @preaction | why make them monkey with their source when it's only the template that needs changing? | 00:04 |
| perlmonkey2 | I thought you just argued that they shouldn't be allowed to alter templates for applications? | 00:06 |
| @preaction | i'm arguing for leaving things as-is | 00:06 |
| @preaction | perhaps as a happy medium: make small sections have individual templates? say the project manager has two tables: the list of projects and a list of recently completed tasks. have two small templates that display those two tables | 00:07 |
| @preaction | i can understand where jt's coming from, with the abolishment of certain templates, but i feel that what is gained (performance) is less important than what is lost | 00:07 |
| perlmonkey2 | micro-templates for encapsulated functionality....I like it. | 00:08 |
| @preaction | either encapsulate the whole table or even go so far as to just have each column have its own template | 00:09 |
| @preaction | maybe even go so far as to make a special markup for it, that would be faster / easier to parse than full HTML::Template | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | nah, it's just more stuff | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | if we have stuff we don't want them to break, then put it into a template variable saying: "IF YOU LEAVE THIS OUT YOU WILL BREAK IT" | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | we can't hold their hand all the time | 00:17 |
| @rizen | i agree with pd, we either make the change to remove it or we do nothing, but i don't want to add in something special just for this stuff | 00:20 |
| @rizen | adding in something special is just one more thing to go wrong | 00:20 |
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| @preaction | we don't have to go as far as i said (new template markup), but micro templates might be nice. such as the wiki's front page being assembled from a Recent Updates template and a Most Popular template. | 00:24 |
| @rizen | micro templates decrease the speed even further | 00:26 |
| @rizen | each template then has to be instanciated and interpolated seperately | 00:27 |
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| @rizen | i got what i needed to hear...no one wants to eliminate templates from apps that don't need templates | 00:27 |
| @rizen | check | 00:27 |
| @rizen | conversation over | 00:27 |
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| xdanger | I think theres a typo in SQLForm.pm, around line 1243: and state='pub lished' | 01:22 |
| xdanger | in the lower diff: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SQLForm.pm?rev1=3876;rev2=3877 | 01:28 |
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| @rizen | nobody really likes the SQLForm anyway | 01:30 |
| SDuensin | Hello! | 01:31 |
| @rizen | fixed | 01:31 |
| SDuensin | I'm fixed? I was broken? | 01:31 |
| xdanger | I'm just preparing for a upgrade so I'm diffing the 7.3.11 against 7.3.14 and noticed that.. | 01:31 |
| @rizen | yes sd, you're broken | 01:36 |
| @rizen | and there's no fixing you | 01:36 |
| SDuensin | :-P | 01:40 |
| SDuensin | Whoa. Yahoo has an all new home page. | 01:45 |
| SDuensin | Or maybe they think I'm logged in. Weird. I'm confused. | 01:45 |
| @rizen | nope, that looks pretty new to me | 01:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | heading home | 02:44 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: got time for a calendar consult? | 06:07 |
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| +perlDreamer | dude, we can't talk about you behind your back if you keep bouncing out AND In the channel | 06:54 |
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| @vayde | there he goes... just as I was warming up my repartee' | 06:54 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning! | 15:47 |
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| -!- wgGuest39 is now known as xootom | 17:03 | |
| xootom | hi all, is there anyone here from plainblack? | 17:09 |
| SDuensin | Not quite yet. | 17:13 |
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| SDuensin | Give it another 30 minutes or so. | 17:13 |
| SDuensin | Hey vayde | 17:13 |
| xootom | thanks | 17:13 |
| SDuensin | vayde, you officially PB? | 17:13 |
| @vayde | I'm official, but officially the litle guy | 17:16 |
| @vayde | I don't have much power to speak ex cathedra. What's up? | 17:17 |
| xootom | i submitted a request for a quote for application development a week or so ago, i wondered when i could expect a reply | 17:18 |
| @vayde | That's a bit over my head. I'll ask Frank when I talk to him today. Who are you in real life? I doubt he knows everyone by irc handle | 17:20 |
| xootom | I'm Tom, the company is Xoolon Limited, we're new to webgui | 17:21 |
| ckotil | ive been quoted a couple times for projects. usually takes less than a week | 17:22 |
| SDuensin | Morning, ckotil | 17:23 |
| ckotil | good morning SDuensin | 17:23 |
| @vayde | I'm trying to raise the powers that be right now. I'll get you a timeframe shortly | 17:24 |
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| @rizen | i'm here | 17:25 |
| SDuensin | Hey rizen | 17:27 |
| @rizen | howdy | 17:28 |
| @rizen | frank's not responding to hails, so either he's not in yet, or he's too busy to respond | 17:28 |
| @rizen | xootom, what was your quote regarding? | 17:29 |
| @rizen | i'll see if i can look up the status | 17:29 |
| @rizen | xootom: I just spoke with Frank. | 17:41 |
| @rizen | He said he's backloged with a lot of quotes. | 17:41 |
| @rizen | He's going to email you today with a status | 17:42 |
| @rizen | I'm sorry for the delay. | 17:42 |
| xootom | that's great, thanks a lot | 17:42 |
| xootom | no worries | 17:42 |
| @rizen | this is very disappointing | 17:47 |
| @rizen | we set a record yesterday (as far as i'm aware) | 17:48 |
| @rizen | with 21 peeps on irc | 17:48 |
| @rizen | we haven't beat the record yet today | 17:48 |
| @rizen | must push higher!!!! | 17:48 |
| +Radix_ | heh | 17:50 |
| * SDuensin has had 2 people (including himself) in #ZKDesktop. :-P | 17:51 | |
| @rizen | SD, was one of those 2 people me? | 17:52 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 17:53 |
| @rizen | also, when you merge zk with webgui, you'll get an instant bump! you'll go from 2 to 20 | 17:53 |
| @rizen | =) | 17:53 |
| SDuensin | WHOOOO! | 17:53 |
| @rizen | the fact that your product will get an instant huge installed base, and a bunch of fans should be more than enough incentive to come on over to the WebGUI side, right? | 17:54 |
| @rizen | WebGUI is neither the dark or the light side, it is it's own side | 17:55 |
| SDuensin | WebGUI is da bomb! | 17:55 |
| @vayde | I've heard that before... "Join me and we shall rule the galaxy..." | 17:55 |
| SDuensin | vayde..er? | 17:55 |
| * vayde ducks rizen's light saber | 17:55 | |
| xootom | has anyone here got any experience with metadot? | 17:56 |
| @rizen | vayde, i'm more powerful than you can possibly imagine. i don't need no stinking light sabers | 17:56 |
| @rizen | indeed i do | 17:56 |
| @rizen | i used to be one of their developers | 17:56 |
| pjesi | can you tell me if this is a bug: I change the url en/foo to en/foo-old, then I change en/bar to en/foo but it gets the url en/foo2 | 17:56 |
| @rizen | nope | 17:56 |
| @rizen | not a bug | 17:56 |
| @rizen | when you change the url the old revision still holds on to the old url | 17:57 |
| xootom | cool... i chose it for a couple of our projects a year ago, but came across webgui a couple of months ago | 17:57 |
| @rizen | so you need to use the "change url" function | 17:57 |
| @rizen | if you want to do that | 17:57 |
| @rizen | from the asset manager, or the class icon | 17:57 |
| xootom | as they look very familiar is there a way of easily migrating data or do i need to map it from scratch | 17:57 |
| @rizen | they may appear similar on the surface, but underneath they are very different animals | 17:57 |
| @rizen | you'll need to map it from scratch | 17:58 |
| xootom | ok thanks | 17:58 |
| @rizen | it sounds like they're losing a lot of their users due to their choices for 7.x | 17:58 |
| @rizen | so if you write a migration utility | 17:59 |
| @rizen | you should publish it somewhere | 17:59 |
| @rizen | cuz i think a lot of people would be happy to use it | 17:59 |
| pjesi | rizen: thank you | 17:59 |
| @rizen | np pjesi | 17:59 |
| xootom | how feasible do you think it is to migrate the database? | 17:59 |
| @rizen | it's very feasible. there is a near 1:1 relationship with a lot of the fields | 18:03 |
| @rizen | and gizmos vs assets | 18:03 |
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| xootom | that was what I originally expected as they seem very similar | 18:03 |
| xootom | i'll investigate the structures | 18:04 |
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| @rizen | you'll want to migrate (at least on the webgui side) using the API rather than the database though | 18:05 |
| @rizen | if you try to use the database directly you'll fail miserably | 18:05 |
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| +MrHairgrease | rizen | 18:56 |
| @rizen | mhg | 18:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | update updates properties without adding a revision right? | 18:56 |
| @rizen | yup | 18:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 18:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | thanks | 18:57 |
| @rizen | damn it...we need one more person to join | 19:01 |
| @rizen | so we can break our irc record of 21 peeps | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | I predict that such a person will come | 19:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | rizen | 19:04 |
| @rizen | mhg | 19:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | is is correct behaviour that locked assets cannot be trashed? | 19:04 |
| @rizen | no | 19:04 |
| @rizen | well actually i don't know or care | 19:04 |
| @rizen | hehe | 19:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | that is what's happening in a 7.2.3 install | 19:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | and you should care | 19:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | since when you trash a cs | 19:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | which has locked treads | 19:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | you'll get dangling entries in the asset table | 19:05 |
| @rizen | yucky | 19:06 |
| @rizen | you should fix that | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | hmm | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 19:06 |
| @rizen | that sounds like a job for mhg | 19:06 |
| @rizen | pd, do you second that motion? | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | but not until tuesday | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | seconded | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | rebuttal from the audience? | 19:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | where's the asset being moved in the asset tree on trash? | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | nowhere | 19:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | in wg::assettrash->trash? | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | it just has its status changed | 19:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | the trash-limbo thing | 19:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | ic | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | right | 19:08 |
| @rizen | motion is carried | 19:08 |
| @rizen | mhg is to be hung by the toenails until he is dead dead dead | 19:09 |
| @rizen | oh wait, that was a different motion | 19:09 |
| @rizen | mhg is to fix the trash/lock problem | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | MrHairGrease: If you want to understand trash, you must embrace emptiness. Kind of like Thulsa Doom from Conan the Barbarian. | 19:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | no thanks | 19:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's almost time to embrace a drink and some food though | 19:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 19:10 |
| @rizen | i'm embracing food and drink right now | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | Both of you are fools! | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | Food and drink are for consuming, not embracing. | 19:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | no man | 19:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | eurotrash are never fools | 19:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | jt migth be one though | 19:12 |
| @vayde | does that mean he can be put on the tree of woe? | 19:12 |
| @rizen | i'm not a fool, i'm a eurotrash fanboy | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | The tree of woe is too gentle for one such as him. | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | Make him program in FORTRAN. | 19:13 |
| @rizen | mhg, for one day only, today, you are my favorite european | 19:13 |
| @rizen | ooh, i loves me some fortran | 19:13 |
| @rizen | tomorrow my favorite european goes back to being Alina Vacariu | 19:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://images.google.nl/images?hl=nl&q=Alina%20Vacariu&btnG=Google+zoeken&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi | 19:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | aha | 19:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | never heard of her | 19:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | but honestly | 19:16 |
| @vayde | Nope, I prefer her to MHG anyday. sorry pal. | 19:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | i don't see what she has that I don't have =) | 19:17 |
| @rizen | i hadn't either until about 2 minutes ago when i searched for "hot european" to get someone to set my favorite european to | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | she is female eurotrash | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | yin to your yang | 19:17 |
| * vayde is going to pass on the obligatory yang comments. | 19:19 | |
| +MrHairgrease | what column says whether an asset is locked or not? | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | asset.________ | 19:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | nope | 19:24 |
| nuba | isLocked, i guess | 19:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 19:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | but what table | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | asset.isLockedBy | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | if that is non-null, the asset is locked | 19:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 19:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | not in 7.2.3 | 19:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | but i found it | 19:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | assetVersionTag.isLocked | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | you sure you're not confusing versionTags vs assets? | 19:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | maybe | 19:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | but i have null isLocked coilumns for locked assets | 19:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | you're right i'm confusing those | 19:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | but i still dunno where to look for the lock status column | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | it's only done indirectly | 19:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | ohg crap | 19:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | Thread has a locked coumn of its own | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | locking threads just prevents replies from being made | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | wholly different thing | 19:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | it also prevent those threads from being deleted | 19:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | that is | 19:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | canEditIfLocked returns false for them | 19:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | and that is used by www_deleteList | 19:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | and www_delete | 19:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | crap! | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | double crap | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Thread has its own isLocked method | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | it conflicts with the one from AssetVersioning | 19:31 |
| +MrHairgrease | setting thread.isLocked to 0 doesn't help | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | paging rizen | 19:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | i imported some cs stuff using an util script | 19:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's just using addChild | 19:32 |
| * MrHairgrease is diving in the code | 19:33 | |
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| +perlDreamer | it's a serious problem when I can type faster than the computer's input buffer can handle | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | vim gets very unhappy | 19:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'm getting insane | 19:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | why don't i understand wtf is happening | 19:38 |
| +perlDreamer | not insane enough yet? | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | do you want to talk me through it? | 19:40 |
| nuba | ls -la | 19:40 |
| nuba | oops | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | it might help you figure it out | 19:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 19:40 |
| * MrHairgrease is angry with the world! | 19:40 | |
| +MrHairgrease | and hungry | 19:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | weird | 19:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | the threads are only still locked in the assetmanager | 19:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | but not anymore if i view them\ | 19:47 |
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| +MrHairgrease | later guys | 20:00 |
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| ckotil | perlbot: paste | 21:08 |
| perlbot | Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. | 21:08 |
| ckotil | http://erxz.com/pb/2369 workflow activity to remind of a pending version tag. Im thinking the problem is with the if statement never being true. Im checking all workflowInstance workflowId's against the workflowId that a user selects for this particular activity. but doesnt seem to work, and Im not seeing a single error. | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | it may be a paste problem, but the array that you use to fetch the instances | 21:18 |
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| +perlDreamer | is not the same one that you iterate over | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | and those warn statements don't look right | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | try using them through session | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | $session->errorHandler->warn() | 21:19 |
| ckotil | ok. | 21:19 |
| ckotil | i tried all the error output functions i could find | 21:19 |
| ckotil | damn..i wonder how long that 5D typo has been there :/ | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | about 93 times if you can count in hex | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | running perl -wc on the Activity would have found the typo pretty quickly | 21:21 |
| ckotil | ah. | 21:22 |
| ckotil | i havent figured out how to test anything yet | 21:22 |
| ckotil | -wc checks syntax? | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | you may have to add the WebGUI lib directory to PERL5LIB, though | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | here's the c-shell syntax that I use | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | setenv PERL5LIB /data/WebGUI/lib; perl -wc % | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | (from inside vim) | 21:23 |
| +crythias | http://www.nedbatchelder.com/text/hexwords.html | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | crythias, that made my day. Thanks, man. | 21:25 |
| +crythias | http://www.nedbatchelder.com/text/hexcolors.html | 21:25 |
| +crythias | you're welcome. | 21:25 |
| * perlDreamer patiently wait for diakopter to figure out a way to do the checking with no environment hackery | 21:27 | |
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| +perlDreamer | ckotil: how's is coming? Is it working now? | 21:38 |
| ckotil | nope. | 21:38 |
| ckotil | still no error output | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | try $self->session->errorHandler->warn | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | since your $session var is void | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | null | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | non-existant | 21:39 |
| ckotil | ah. | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | caffeine break | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | brb | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil: next bug | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | since $session is null, you need to pass $self->session to getAllInstances | 21:55 |
| ckotil | ah.syntax is a ok now. i added use lib '/data/WebGUI/lib'; and it checks out | 21:55 |
| ckotil | yah, i caught that, and made the change. | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | give us a new paste, please? | 21:56 |
| ckotil | sure. | 21:56 |
| ckotil | http://erxz.com/pb/2371 | 21:56 |
| +perlDreamer | almost all WebGUI API routines return scalars or references | 22:13 |
| +perlDreamer | so getAllInstances returns an array ref | 22:13 |
| +perlDreamer | just dereference it | 22:13 |
| +perlDreamer | @allInstances = @{ WebGUI::Workflow::Instance->getAllinstances($self->session) }; | 22:14 |
| ckotil | ok so does that mean @allInstances can be $allInstances ? | 22:14 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, then do a deref inside the foreach loop, instead | 22:14 |
| ckotil | ah. | 22:14 |
| ckotil | k, reading up on dereferencing | 22:15 |
| +perlDreamer | perldoc perlref | 22:16 |
| ckotil | foreach $item ($@allInstances){ | 22:18 |
| ckotil | is that how i will dereference? | 22:18 |
| +perlDreamer | @{ $allInstances } | 22:19 |
| * ckotil pulls hair | 22:19 | |
| +perlDreamer | the other form is @$allInstances | 22:19 |
| +perlDreamer | but I like the braces because it makes it stand out more | 22:20 |
| ckotil | ok. | 22:20 |
| +perlDreamer | let me know when you have that hacked up, because I'd like you to explain the mail part to me | 22:20 |
| +crythias | perl is cool. @ (at) is array $ is $string and # is hash | 22:20 |
| +perlDreamer | % is hash | 22:21 |
| +perlDreamer | # is comment | 22:21 |
| +crythias | yeah. that's it. | 22:21 |
| +crythias | I'm silly. but still, it's almost mnemonic, except the part that I forgot... because the mnemonic didn't work. | 22:21 |
| +crythias | hee | 22:21 |
| ckotil | 15:19 <+perlDreamer> @{ $allInstances } | why wouldnt it be ${ @allInstances } ? | 22:23 |
| +perlDreamer | getAllInstances returns a scalar variable which is an array ref | 22:24 |
| +crythias | you're not making one string of allInstances. | 22:24 |
| +perlDreamer | $allInstances = W::W::I->getAllInstances | 22:24 |
| +perlDreamer | if you want to go over each one, you have to turn that back in an array | 22:24 |
| +perlDreamer | @{ $allInstances } | 22:24 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil: is that making sense? | 22:25 |
| ckotil | a little. | 22:25 |
| ckotil | ok, cant i just fill @allInstances = W::W::I->getAllinstances; | 22:25 |
| +perlDreamer | yes and no | 22:26 |
| +perlDreamer | that will take the array reference from getAllInstances and assign it to the first | 22:26 |
| +perlDreamer | value of @allInstances | 22:26 |
| ckotil | ok. so ill avoid that | 22:26 |
| +crythias | yeah. that makes sense. | 22:26 |
| +crythias | @($allInstances) fills @ | 22:27 |
| ckotil | alright, syntax checks out. shall i make a new paste and ill explain the $mail part? | 22:27 |
| +perlDreamer | yes! | 22:28 |
| +perlDreamer | we're almost there | 22:28 |
| ckotil | http://erxz.com/pb/2372 | 22:29 |
| +perlDreamer | ok, let 'er rip, ckotil | 22:29 |
| ckotil | so the mail thing , i used in SendEmailAboutVersion.pm another workflow activity , with object type VersionTag | 22:30 |
| ckotil | http://erxz.com/pb/2373 there is the execute sub | 22:30 |
| ckotil | so i figured i could use it in this case. | 22:30 |
| +perlDreamer | and the foreach loop checks to see if the workflow is in the list of all workflow activities | 22:30 |
| +perlDreamer | if it is, then send an email | 22:31 |
| +perlDreamer | if not,then don't | 22:31 |
| ckotil | correct | 22:31 |
| ckotil | if not then do nothing | 22:31 |
| ckotil | ths activity is going to go in my daily activities | 22:31 |
| ckotil | + workflow | 22:31 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, then let me explain the next bug that I see | 22:31 |
| +perlDreamer | it tries to call $mail->send | 22:31 |
| +perlDreamer | but $mail may not be a Mail object | 22:31 |
| +perlDreamer | this will generate an error | 22:32 |
| ckotil | ok, i could put $mail->send, before the end of the if | 22:32 |
| +perlDreamer | yes. that would be good | 22:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and you only need to return $self->COMPLETE in that case, not error | 22:32 |
| ckotil | what should it retrn? OK | 22:32 |
| +perlDreamer | just | 22:33 |
| +perlDreamer | return $self->COMPLETE | 22:33 |
| ckotil | gotcha | 22:33 |
| ckotil | and that line $self->session->errorHandler->warn($runWorkflowId); I would really like to be able to see that the variables are actually what i intend them to be. but nothing ever shows up in the logs | 22:35 |
| +perlDreamer | what's your log.conf file look like for this site? | 22:36 |
| ckotil | to test this activity, i have a pending workflow w/ the workflow commit w/ approval, then i fire off the scheduler, and... nothing | 22:36 |
| ckotil | ill check it.. | 22:36 |
| +perlDreamer | nothing, no email no nothing? | 22:37 |
| ckotil | log4perl.logger = WARN, mainlog | 22:37 |
| ckotil | no email, no nothing. | 22:37 |
| ckotil | i assume thats the line we want in log.conf? | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, it looks fine | 22:38 |
| @rizen | pd, need an opinion | 22:39 |
| @rizen | anybody else too | 22:39 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm opinionated | 22:39 |
| @rizen | i'm writing up the spec for webdb | 22:39 |
| @rizen | which is the replacement for dataform/sqlform | 22:39 |
| @rizen | and i need to know a user friendly name | 22:39 |
| @rizen | for "table" | 22:39 |
| @rizen | but let me explain first | 22:40 |
| @rizen | think data form | 22:40 |
| @rizen | when you go to create the form | 22:40 |
| @rizen | you're not only defining what a record will look like | 22:40 |
| @rizen | you're also defining the columns of the table | 22:40 |
| @rizen | so this is all done in one step | 22:40 |
| @rizen | so do I call it a "record type" | 22:40 |
| @rizen | a "table" | 22:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I would call it a table | 22:40 |
| +perlDreamer | people get tables | 22:41 |
| @rizen | something else? | 22:41 |
| +perlDreamer | rows/columns | 22:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd ask the deke, but she has a science background and is familiar with that term. | 22:41 |
| +crythias | bureau | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | Ask someone who isn't a techie, like Mrs. Dillon | 22:42 |
| @rizen | so when you're sitting on the main screen you're and the label says "click here to add a table" are you going to understand that you're creating an edit form for that table at the same time" | 22:42 |
| @rizen | ? | 22:42 |
| @rizen | that's why i'm asking you pd | 22:42 |
| @rizen | you're not technical | 22:42 |
| @rizen | =) | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | Hang on a sec | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm going to hack your cell phone | 22:43 |
| +crythias | table design | 22:43 |
| +crythias | just like access | 22:43 |
| +perlDreamer | my $connection = Cell::Phone->connect('remote', lookup=>'JT Smith'); | 22:43 |
| +perlDreamer | $connection->connect; | 22:43 |
| +perlDreamer | $connection->enableBackDoorHacks($secreKey); | 22:43 |
| +perlDreamer | my $batteryHardware = $connection->accessHardwareAPI() | 22:44 |
| +perlDreamer | $batteryHardware->disableOvercurrentProtection(); | 22:44 |
| +perlDreamer | $batteryHardware->disableOvervoltageProtection() | 22:44 |
| +perlDreamer | $batteryHardware->disableCharging(); | 22:44 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: is this a container for many tables or just 1 table/asset? | 22:45 |
| @vayde | rizen, I don't know if your average joe user can differentiate between the table, and the thing that allows you to edit the table | 22:47 |
| @rizen | many tables | 22:47 |
| ckotil | this form will actualy create a new table? | 22:47 |
| @rizen | vayde...that's the point | 22:47 |
| @rizen | i don't want them to | 22:47 |
| @rizen | i want to make sure that they don't need to | 22:47 |
| @rizen | that's why i want to get good terminology | 22:47 |
| @rizen | ckotil yes | 22:48 |
| +crythias | does anyone care that it's making a table? | 22:48 |
| @rizen | they shouldn't need to care that it's making a table | 22:48 |
| @rizen | except that they will be able to link them together later | 22:49 |
| @rizen | multiple tables that is | 22:49 |
| @rizen | so i need to have a consistent term | 22:49 |
| @rizen | that represents everything that it does | 22:49 |
| @rizen | which is why i'm thinking "record type" | 22:49 |
| @rizen | you create a record type | 22:49 |
| +crythias | but to the end user it's a form::field link, so... | 22:49 |
| @rizen | that you can link with other record types | 22:49 |
| +perlDreamer | you could borrow spreadsheet terminology and call it a sheet | 22:49 |
| @rizen | but it doesn't work like a spreadsheet | 22:50 |
| @vayde | or just Table Editor | 22:50 |
| +crythias | it's not a table, it's a form. | 22:50 |
| @rizen | correct | 22:50 |
| @rizen | it's a form | 22:50 |
| @rizen | the allows you to create/edit/delete records | 22:50 |
| +crythias | regardless of how it can be linked, it's a form. to link them, specify the form/field pair to link to. so why worry about table connection in front. | 22:50 |
| +perlDreamer | It's both. The table for holding the data and the form for adding information to it. | 22:50 |
| +crythias | but nobody in front cares that there's a table. | 22:51 |
| +crythias | so don't talk about it. | 22:51 |
| +crythias | all they care about is a form with fields. "Can I get data in, and can I get it back?" | 22:52 |
| +crythias | "If I want, show me a table of my data" | 22:52 |
| +perlDreamer | You'd skip that, too and say "show all records" | 22:53 |
| +crythias | but it's not a table. not anymore than adding an article to a page ... | 22:53 |
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| +crythias | pd: yeah, 'xactly. | 22:54 |
| @vayde | But if you go too far away from the structure, you're gonna confuse the heck out of the folks who do know a little about what's going on | 22:54 |
| +crythias | vayde: when they get that far, then they'd ask the question. At least (I hope) this means that WG finally can have forms that can be queried directly and not by a convoluted fields-in-this-table and data-in-this-table thing. | 22:55 |
| +crythias | forms: tables | 22:55 |
| +crythias | but if the generation of the tables is by making the form, then the point is, be form centric. | 22:56 |
| @vayde | there's an important question right there: Is it supposed to be form centric? | 22:56 |
| ckotil | Just use the real terms, and link to a mysql wiki page | 22:57 |
| +crythias | based on the info that rizen provided, I can't see how it's not, vayde. | 22:57 |
| +crythias | add a field (front) = add a column (back office) | 22:58 |
| +crythias | add a form (front) = add a table (back) | 22:58 |
| @vayde | Yeah, that's what it sounds like. I was asking just to see if I was following | 22:59 |
| @vayde | and if the big guy was intending it to be that way | 22:59 |
| +crythias | I think the real issue is if there will be a different db to house data (forms) than WebGUI's db | 23:00 |
| +crythias | or if that's a question.. | 23:01 |
| @vayde | I wonder if we should be thinking about the distinction between a form being THE interface for the table and it being AN interface for the table. | 23:01 |
| +crythias | well, I'd say that it'd necessarily be the i/f for the creation of the table, but not the data retrieval.. | 23:02 |
| @vayde | That's why I'm thinking of a Table Editor- something that can create tables, but can also serve as a front end for existing tables. | 23:03 |
| +crythias | but the question is why put the word table out there for anyone if they're not working in a grid-like ... thing? | 23:04 |
| @rizen | i'm going with "record type" | 23:04 |
| @rizen | cuz i think it fits all situations better | 23:04 |
| +crythias | You mean Integers, Strings, etc? | 23:05 |
| @vayde | that sounds to me like field type | 23:05 |
| @rizen | yeah that's field type | 23:05 |
| @rizen | record is the complete set of fields | 23:05 |
| @rizen | an "employee" for example | 23:05 |
| @rizen | a "department" | 23:05 |
| @rizen | these are records | 23:05 |
| @rizen | each that have many fields attached to them | 23:06 |
| @rizen | or rather record types, rather than records | 23:06 |
| @rizen | the individual employees and departments are the records | 23:06 |
| +crythias | record category? | 23:07 |
| +crythias | form name | 23:07 |
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| +crythias | this would be one form=one table, right? | 23:11 |
| @rizen | i was thinking that | 23:16 |
| @rizen | but now i've reconsidered | 23:17 |
| @rizen | i'm also thinking that maybe when we get rid of data form, we should add "contact form" as it's own asset type | 23:20 |
| @rizen | and make it super simple | 23:20 |
| @rizen | so people can quickly and easily add their own contact us | 23:20 |
| @rizen | without getting involved in a bigger more complicated asset | 23:21 |
| ckotil | or add a drop down box to this new asset, which would have premade forms | 23:21 |
| @rizen | i actually plan on making this asset "packageable" | 23:21 |
| @rizen | so you can build your own applications with it | 23:21 |
| @rizen | package them | 23:22 |
| @rizen | and give them up for other people to use | 23:22 |
| @rizen | so if ckotil at his new sysadmin job builds a database for keeping track of routers, servers, and lan hardware | 23:22 |
| ckotil | we have that in place already. | 23:22 |
| @rizen | and perldreamer builds a database for managing church group involvement | 23:23 |
| @rizen | and crythias builds a database for managing a rolodex | 23:23 |
| @rizen | you guys can all share your apps with each other | 23:23 |
| @rizen | using a webgui package | 23:23 |
| ckotil | ah | 23:23 |
| ckotil | interessting. we plan on licensing the grnocdb application to other NOC's | 23:24 |
| ckotil | maybe it would run in webgui! | 23:24 |
| ckotil | ;] | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | definitely should | 23:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | we got ckotil's activity up and running! | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | but we found a bug/problem with SyncProfilesToLDAP | 00:19 |
| +perlDreamer | nothing below it runs in the workflow | 00:19 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning. | 16:00 |
| xootom | hi sduensin | 16:01 |
| nuba | rizen: im reading the backlog, awesome about the webdb. did you consider the entity/relationship naming scheme ? | 16:17 |
| nuba | thats how we start the study of databases at college | 16:17 |
| SDuensin | WebDB? | 16:17 |
| nuba | you have this entity, that entity, they have such and such relationship, which is one-to-many, one-to-one, etc. etc. | 16:18 |
| nuba | 11:50 <@rizen> i'm writing up the spec for webdb | 16:19 |
| nuba | 11:50 <@rizen> which is the replacement for dataform/sqlform | 16:19 |
| nuba | SDuensin: this paste above was for you | 16:19 |
| nuba | now, correct me if im wrong, but didnt we have a sqledit (or something like that) wobject contribution around 5.x or early 6.x ? | 16:20 |
| SDuensin | I don't remember. That was about the time I went AWOL. | 16:20 |
| nuba | let me see if i can find it | 16:20 |
| nuba | awol? | 16:20 |
| nuba | here it is: http://www.plainblack.com/sqledit | 16:21 |
| SDuensin | Uh. Yea. American military term. "Absent WithOut Leave". Means someone ran off. I used WebGUI 5.x and then quit using WebGUI. Now I'm happy to be back. :-) | 16:22 |
| nuba | last update to it was on 2005-01-25, working on 6.2.x | 16:23 |
| nuba | heh ok, got it | 16:23 |
| SDuensin | That looks cool. | 16:23 |
| nuba | more here, from the creator: http://www.ebruni.it/software/os/webgui/sqledit/index.htm | 16:25 |
| nuba | >Permette di gestire completamente tabelle su MySQL. | 16:25 |
| nuba | that means "allows you to fully manage your MySQL table" | 16:25 |
| nuba | oh, in english, here: http://www.ebruni.it/en/software/os/webgui/sqledit/index.htm? :) | 16:26 |
| SDuensin | Ah yes, that makes more sense to me. :-) | 16:26 |
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| AMH_bob | Good morning! | 17:45 |
| SDuensin | Uh. Sure. | 17:45 |
| SDuensin | Hi. :-) | 17:45 |
| AMH_bob | Question.... | 17:45 |
| AMH_bob | I'm looking for a form element to use a graphic as a button, but I can't find one.... | 17:46 |
| AMH_bob | WebGUI::Form::Button isn't it. | 17:46 |
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| pjesi | AMH_bob: you can do that with CSS | 17:55 |
| @preaction | more likely you'd want to use <input type="image"> | 17:58 |
| AMH_bob | replace the button with a graphic, using css.... your got me there - or do you mean javascript? | 18:01 |
| pjesi | you can style the submit button with css, or you can edit the template to use image | 18:04 |
| nuba | you still get a diferent result using a <input type=image> in the form | 18:05 |
| AMH_bob | I don't really need to send the whole form, I could just pass the info in the parameters; Session::Icon looks link a good start | 18:06 |
| nuba | that would submit the form while also producing a .x and .y for the coordinates of the click | 18:06 |
| +perlDreamer | You could patch Form::Button to accept a graphics link | 18:07 |
| +perlDreamer | That would be a cool RFE | 18:07 |
| AMH_bob | I agree | 18:07 |
| AMH_bob | But I'll save your sugestions and have a good look tomorrow, it's time to go home here! Thanks to all! | 18:08 |
| SDuensin | Later AMH_bob | 18:08 |
| AMH_bob | bye | 18:08 |
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| +perlDreamer | ckotil: were you fishing yesterday or catching? | 18:37 |
| ckotil | only caught a buzz | 18:38 |
| +perlDreamer | hopefully not from the fish.... | 18:38 |
| ckotil | ive only seen 1 fish pulled from that particular river | 18:38 |
| ckotil | yeah, i wouldnt even think about eating these fish | 18:38 |
| ckotil | 'fish' | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, I see | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | evil, mutant, PHP hacking fish | 18:39 |
| ckotil | hehe | 18:39 |
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| @vayde | 500 lb Carp saying "I wanna talk to ANYONE from Dow Chemical!"? | 18:40 |
| ckotil | My friends and I are planning a canoe trip this weekend on that river. Ive done it before, but I only recently learned how dirty it is. and now im having second thoughts about it | 18:42 |
| @vayde | You could go down to the nearest army surplus store and stock up... but that might make it less fun | 18:43 |
| @vayde | It's hard to drink a cold one through a gas mask | 18:44 |
| ckotil | indeed. | 18:44 |
| ckotil | http://tinyurl.com/2u3evs is where we put in. zoom out a bit and you can see that this stream could be the citys drainpipe :/ | 18:45 |
| @vayde | Oh, I don't know... From that angle any river is gonna look a little peaked. | 18:50 |
| @vayde | The Mississippi looks like that from ground level in Minneapolis. | 18:50 |
| ckotil | ya | 18:51 |
| ckotil | most rivers are extremely unclean | 18:51 |
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| ckotil | polluted would be a better word | 18:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | New release! | 20:01 |
| +perlDreamer | everybody run and download 7.3.15 | 20:01 |
| SDuensin | Whoooo! | 20:02 |
| perlmonkey2 | heh. | 20:02 |
| perlmonkey2 | svn update | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I just figured that if we get enough people doing it that it would be like the SuperBowl Flush | 20:03 |
| ckotil | im hovering around a meg a sec | 20:04 |
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| @preaction | can we make the webgui project manager perform like this: http://www.basecamphq.com/ | 20:56 |
| SDuensin | That looks nice. Get started! I want to see it in 7.3.16! | 20:57 |
| @preaction | new features go in minor releases :p | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | that's a nice design | 20:58 |
| SDuensin | That's easy. Just make the next one 7.4.0. :-P | 20:58 |
| @preaction | i wish | 20:58 |
| -!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.15 | WRE 0.7.2 ] The Great WebGUI Bugfix Day - http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/the-great-webgui-bufix-day | 20:59 | |
| +perlDreamer | SDuensin: if you'll fix all the bugs on the bug list, we can branch 7.4.0 | 20:59 |
| +perlDreamer | today | 20:59 |
| SDuensin | Uh. That's NEXT Wednesday! | 20:59 |
| @preaction | but i need time to work on the new PM | 20:59 |
| * SDuensin hands preaction a "g"... "bufix"? | 21:01 | |
| @preaction | that was JT, yesterday, remember? | 21:02 |
| SDuensin | I remember. I still can't click on it. | 21:02 |
| @preaction | works for me :p | 21:02 |
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| isaacfinnegan | hey. did the Linux Geek position get filled? | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 21:07 |
| * SDuensin didn't even notice there was such a thing. | 21:07 | |
| SDuensin | Snoozed and lozed. Ah well. | 21:07 |
| isaacfinnegan | yeah, I got my application in too late too I think | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | His name is Haarg | 21:08 |
| isaacfinnegan | kewl | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | Say hi to the competition, Haarg | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | You kicked their butt | 21:08 |
| * SDuensin didn't know he was competing. :-P | 21:09 | |
| isaacfinnegan | lol. nice | 21:09 |
| @vayde | Actually, I'm the linux geek | 21:16 |
| @preaction | yeah, vayde was the winnar there | 21:16 |
| @vayde | I out geeked the competition. And in reward, I got handed a mac. | 21:17 |
| SDuensin | COngrats! | 21:18 |
| SDuensin | Lucky bum! | 21:18 |
| @vayde | this linux geek doesn't like the mac. he prefers linux. kinda goes iwth the name | 21:20 |
| SDuensin | Get iTerm and open it full screen. You'll feel right at home. :-) | 21:20 |
| ckotil | iterm rawks | 21:21 |
| ckotil | i just isntalled it today. | 21:21 |
| ckotil | im very pleased with it. | 21:21 |
| SDuensin | Gone full screen with it? DANG that's a lot of space for text! | 21:21 |
| ckotil | i can actually scroll when using screen ssh now. mac terminal cant do that | 21:21 |
| ckotil | havent taken it full screen. | 21:21 |
| SDuensin | My only problem with iTerm (or any term on the Mac) is that "mc" tends to go nutty on me from time to time. Especially if I'm using "screen". | 21:23 |
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| SDuensin | Howdy, rizen | 21:24 |
| @rizen | howdy | 21:25 |
| @rizen | ooh, somebody updated the topic for me | 21:25 |
| @rizen | thank you, somebody | 21:25 |
| SDuensin | Except you're still fixing "bu's" | 21:26 |
| SDuensin | :-P | 21:26 |
| @rizen | bu's need attention too | 21:26 |
| * perlDreamer goes running, bbl | 21:28 | |
| SDuensin | Weirdo. :-P | 21:28 |
| SDuensin | All I've given attention to today is ZK stuff. Been porting old intranet apps from ASP to ZKD. | 21:29 |
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| cap10morgan | is the wre having compile problems in ubuntu feisty? | 21:34 |
| SDuensin | I think I saw that somewhere. | 21:51 |
| @preaction | would anyone happen to know why mod_perl is still sending Cache-control: no-cache and pragma: no-cache, when I set $request->no_cache(0); and send my own cache-control and pragma headers? | 21:53 |
| @rizen | because webgui is configured to always send that | 21:55 |
| @rizen | when you're logged in | 21:56 |
| @preaction | what if i'm completely bypassing the session->http headers by $session->http->setNoHeader(1); and using the Apache2::RequestRec object to do it myself? | 21:57 |
| @preaction | http://pastebin.ca/458144 <- there's the code i'm using to generate my headers | 22:00 |
| @rizen | it doesn't matter what you're doing | 22:33 |
| @rizen | unless you're commenting out the code that the rest of webgui does | 22:33 |
| @rizen | just cuz you set something doesn't mean it overrides what the rest of webgui does | 22:33 |
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| @preaction | isn't that what setNoHeader is supposed to do though? | 22:38 |
| @rizen | actually no | 22:45 |
| @rizen | =) | 22:45 |
| @rizen | well i shouldn't say that | 22:46 |
| @rizen | it depends upon WHEN you call setNoHeader | 22:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | hooray for content chunking | 22:46 |
| @rizen | it needs to be called BEFORE anything else calles send() | 22:46 |
| @rizen | i like content chunking, but it does make things soooooo much more complicated | 22:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | not for me | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | the hard stuff i let you do =) | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | but content chunking rocks indeed | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | just like elvis | 22:48 |
| +perlDreamer | Dude, you blaspheme! | 22:49 |
| +perlDreamer | Nothing rocks like Elvis | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh but the martians do | 22:50 |
| SDuensin | Elvis is in Nutter Butters. | 22:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | they didn't abduct him for nothing | 22:50 |
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| isaacfinnegan | hello? | 23:08 |
| +perlDreamer | hola | 23:09 |
| isaacfinnegan | Hi. Sorry, I just installed colloquy and wasn't sure if it was working ;) | 23:09 |
| +perlDreamer | You're really here. It's not an illusion. | 23:10 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: what's up with the smoke tests? | 23:23 |
| @rizen | you'll need to be more specific | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | they don't seem to be running on a daily basis anymore | 23:24 |
| @rizen | i'll add it to my list of things to check on | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry, man | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | I know you don't need more things to check on | 23:35 |
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| +perlDreamer | bbl | 00:48 |
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| nuba | rizen: did you see the stuff i posted here earlier today, about webdb and ebruni's sqledit ? check the backlog :) | 01:50 |
| @rizen | i read it briefly, but i think all you said was, ebruni did something similar and here's the web site | 01:51 |
| @rizen | is that correct? | 01:51 |
| @rizen | i've seen sql edit before | 01:51 |
| @rizen | but that's nothing like webdb | 01:51 |
| nuba | yup, that was it | 01:51 |
| nuba | ok | 01:51 |
| @rizen | the idea behind webdb is to make it so the user doesn't even know about the underlying database | 01:52 |
| @rizen | instead, they're focused on building their app | 01:52 |
| @rizen | whatever it is | 01:52 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat054.mxim.com] has quit [""""] | 01:52 | |
| @rizen | but thanks for pointing that out, in case i hadn't seen it before | 01:52 |
| nuba | you mean the webdb to be able to have programming logic into it, munging data, etc ? | 01:52 |
| nuba | for non-tech users ? | 01:53 |
| @rizen | yes | 01:53 |
| nuba | or just a frontend to a db | 01:53 |
| @rizen | you'll have a front end to the db | 01:53 |
| @rizen | plus you'll be able to attach actions to it | 01:53 |
| @rizen | like when you push save on this button | 01:53 |
| @rizen | send out an email to this user | 01:53 |
| @rizen | and redirect the user over here | 01:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | will it also keep record of changes in the records | 01:54 |
| @rizen | so it's data entry with search capability, plus a little bit of logic | 01:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | i know the c=versoning in the sqlform sucks | 01:54 |
| @rizen | no mrhairgrease...that's the domain of sqlform | 01:54 |
| nuba | ok. i'll look at the spec, when you post it | 01:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | but you are gonna kick the sqlform out right? | 01:55 |
| @rizen | i'm going to kick the sqlform out of the core yes | 01:55 |
| @rizen | but that doesn't mean it wont' exist anymore | 01:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure enough | 01:55 |
| @rizen | same goes for the data form | 01:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 01:55 |
| @rizen | the plan is to leave sqlform and dataform in tact on existing web sites | 01:55 |
| @rizen | but stop distributing it with the core | 01:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | but the webdb can do anything the datform can | 01:56 |
| @rizen | and then package up the dataform and sqlform as contribs | 01:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | well anyway | 01:56 |
| @rizen | actually that's not exactly true | 01:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'll be looking out for the specs you write | 01:56 |
| @rizen | webdb will be much more powerful than dataform, but there will still be some stuff it can't do that dataform can | 01:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | such as? | 01:57 |
| @rizen | for example, you won't be able to do tab forms | 01:57 |
| @rizen | thats' because the webdb allows for multi-stage data entry | 01:57 |
| @rizen | edit this form, then you're redirected to that form | 01:57 |
| @rizen | then to the third form | 01:57 |
| @rizen | and then your done | 01:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 01:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | but i don't see why that would prevent use of tabs | 01:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | tabs are just partioning of forms | 01:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | or a means of layout if you will | 01:58 |
| @rizen | because tabs are very complicated to implement nicely in a gui interface like this | 01:58 |
| @rizen | look at the data form if you doubt that | 01:58 |
| @rizen | and more importantly | 01:58 |
| @rizen | they are completely unnecessary | 01:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | i think tools like yui will ease that up by large | 01:58 |
| @rizen | furthermore users are confused by it | 01:59 |
| @rizen | they think they should hit "save" on each tab seperately | 01:59 |
| @rizen | at least that's the feedback i've gotten from it | 01:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 01:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's a valid argument | 01:59 |
| @rizen | instead of webdb being "the kitchen sink" i want it to be a good powerful easy to use tool | 02:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | still i think you should allow people to make their interface needlessly complex and unusable =) | 02:00 |
| @rizen | sqlform is more flexible than webdb will be, but my mom will be able to use webdb, and she can't use sqlform | 02:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | i understand | 02:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | webdb will be like the links you mailed about a year ago on the list right? | 02:01 |
| @rizen | something like that yes | 02:01 |
| @rizen | but probably even easier to use than that | 02:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok cool | 02:01 |
| @rizen | i started with that as a baseline, and have now refined the logic further | 02:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | where are you going to put the tables? | 02:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | in dblinks? | 02:03 |
| @rizen | nope, the tables will be inside the webguidb | 02:04 |
| @rizen | just in a very safe manner because the user doesn't get to interact with tables in the same manner that you do in sqlform | 02:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | and what about using dblinks but only show the selectbox for the link if you are uilevel 9? | 02:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | else default to th wgdb | 02:05 |
| @rizen | no, this is not meant to be sqlform | 02:06 |
| @rizen | forget the name "webdb" because you're inferring from it that it's meant to manage a database | 02:06 |
| @rizen | it's not | 02:06 |
| @rizen | that's only a temporary name | 02:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 02:07 |
| @rizen | this asset is meant to allow users to build custom webgui apps | 02:07 |
| @rizen | it has some functionality that is similar to sqlform, but it doesn't allow you to import database tables | 02:07 |
| @rizen | it doesn't let you set field types | 02:07 |
| @rizen | hell, the user may or may not even know that a database table is being created behind the scenes | 02:08 |
| @rizen | sqlform is a cool tool, but it's not what i really want for webgui core | 02:08 |
| @rizen | it's too complicated to use | 02:08 |
| @rizen | and it's too flexible...it's good for someone who understands database | 02:09 |
| @rizen | s | 02:09 |
| @rizen | but not your average user | 02:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | i guess so | 02:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | it was never meant for use by joe blow | 02:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | so that makes sense =) | 02:09 |
| @rizen | no i understand that | 02:09 |
| @rizen | like i said, it is a good app | 02:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | i know you did | 02:10 |
| @rizen | but it has a different purpose than this | 02:10 |
| nuba | you think that doing some schemes for entities and relationship is too much for the average joe ? | 02:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah i understand that | 02:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | maybe i dunno | 02:10 |
| @rizen | nuba, yes | 02:10 |
| nuba | you know, if you want to build some app, you gotta try to build mental model for that | 02:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | but the sqlform is more complex than that | 02:11 |
| nuba | whats the mental model you want for when the user goes into using this webdb? | 02:11 |
| @rizen | nuba, have you tried to use the sqlform | 02:11 |
| @rizen | you can build some really complex shit with it | 02:11 |
| @rizen | it's amazing | 02:11 |
| nuba | yes, and i like it | 02:11 |
| nuba | yup, did some nasty stuff long ago with it :) | 02:11 |
| @rizen | however, you have to know about web form fields and database field types | 02:11 |
| nuba | yes | 02:11 |
| @rizen | that sort of stuff is way too crazy for the average user | 02:12 |
| nuba | now get the sqledit thing. | 02:12 |
| nuba | if you would simplify that interface | 02:12 |
| nuba | so that the user wouldn't get too deep, as it has to go now, with it | 02:12 |
| nuba | wouldn't that be close to what you plan for the webdb ? | 02:12 |
| nuba | like, i want this thing to have this and that attribute, and for this given attribute, valid values are a, b, c, etc. | 02:13 |
| @rizen | not even close | 02:13 |
| nuba | or is this too close to the database for what you plan for the webdb ? | 02:13 |
| @rizen | like i said, webdb is a misnomer | 02:13 |
| @rizen | it needs a new name | 02:13 |
| nuba | got any other misnomers so we can try to grasp it ? | 02:13 |
| @rizen | just having the "db" in it gives you the wrong picture | 02:14 |
| @rizen | misnomer = bad name | 02:14 |
| nuba | i know | 02:14 |
| nuba | maybe others you can come up arent that bad | 02:14 |
| @rizen | i don't have another name for it...if i did, then i wouldn't have called it webdb | 02:14 |
| nuba | all i can think for webdb is web db.. db as in DataBase.. and there we go :/ | 02:14 |
| nuba | sorry | 02:14 |
| @rizen | how about "web application builder thingy" | 02:15 |
| @rizen | that's what i'm saying...the end user may or may not even know about the database part of it | 02:15 |
| nuba | hey | 02:15 |
| @rizen | from their perspective they'll be creating a custom application | 02:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'd call it just 'thingy' | 02:16 |
| nuba | would that be anywhere like ms' infopath ? | 02:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | dunno what infopath is | 02:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | but | 02:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | what i do no | 02:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | is that i'm gonna sleep over it | 02:17 |
| nuba | build this form, set this action, show this other form now, send data here, munge it that way, etc. | 02:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | very soon | 02:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | as RMS once told Koen: | 02:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | So WebGUI is something to do something? | 02:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | I think thingy will be good enough =) | 02:18 |
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| nuba | im very curious to see the spec | 02:19 |
| nuba | for the webdb thingy | 02:19 |
| nuba | whatever it is :) | 02:19 |
| @rizen | i'm having a hard time writing it | 02:20 |
| @rizen | but it will be done by the end of the week | 02:20 |
| SDuensin | ReHi | 02:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | we're all curious to see jt's thingy =) | 02:20 |
| nuba | if it is what it sounds it is, being the average joe now starts writing web apps with webgui, it'll be a killer | 02:20 |
| @rizen | that's the idea | 02:21 |
| @rizen | and i don't think anyone wants to see my thingy | 02:22 |
| @rizen | =) | 02:22 |
| nuba | huh | 02:22 |
| nuba | no gooey tentacles, thanks | 02:23 |
| nuba | ok i wasnt sure about that, but from wordnet here it comes: S: (adj) gooey, icky (soft and sticky) | 02:25 |
| nuba | did you guys check that before naming gooey ? | 02:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok guys | 02:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | going to bed | 02:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | see you later | 02:25 |
| +Radix_ | hey MrHairgrease | 02:25 |
| @rizen | later | 02:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | radix | 02:26 |
| +Radix_ | night :) | 02:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | what's up | 02:26 |
| +Radix_ | Joeri said yes btw :) | 02:26 |
| nuba | jeesh i have a gooey plush dool in my desk. now if I say that to someone they make the wrond picture of it | 02:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh cool | 02:26 |
| nuba | 'night | 02:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | in august rigth? | 02:26 |
| +Radix_ | yup | 02:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 02:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | cool | 02:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | we'll be talkin then | 02:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | bye | 02:26 |
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| nuba | sorry if it was disgusting, but im still kinda shocked after learning the icky meaning of gooey, webgui's pretty mascot | 02:35 |
| nuba | just moments ago | 02:35 |
| @rizen | i didn't name it | 02:36 |
| @rizen | the community did | 02:36 |
| @rizen | it was a contest | 02:36 |
| nuba | yes, i know | 02:36 |
| @rizen | ok | 02:36 |
| nuba | community vote. i remember that. | 02:36 |
| +Radix_ | gooey.. sticks everywhere | 02:36 |
| +Radix_ | what's wrong with the name tho? | 02:36 |
| +Radix_ | gooey is just a nickname for WebGUI | 02:37 |
| nuba | well icky isnt a particularly positive way of saying "sticks everywhere" | 02:38 |
| nuba | of course im no native english speaker, and i can be reading it wrong | 02:38 |
| @rizen | see most people think of the word "gooey" in a more positive light | 02:39 |
| @rizen | usually associated with sticky foods | 02:39 |
| @rizen | like caramel | 02:39 |
| nuba | thats interesting | 02:40 |
| +Radix_ | one of the guys at work has the nickname gooey | 02:40 |
| +Radix_ | he's dutch, and his real name is Gooitzen - gooey is easier to say ;) | 02:40 |
| nuba | ok. so i was reading it wrong, my bad. | 02:41 |
| nuba | i guess we dont have such a word in portuguese, for something that sticks everywhere, but in a good, nice, tone | 02:42 |
| @rizen | no, it can also mean a sticky mess | 02:42 |
| @rizen | so it can be bad too | 02:42 |
| @rizen | but it's most often a positive thing...at least in the US | 02:42 |
| nuba | i see | 02:42 |
| @rizen | maybe worldwide it would have a different conotation | 02:42 |
| nuba | well in portuguese it would mean, maybe, "grude", after the glue you make with white powder and water, which has no intrinsic positive value, or "meleca", which I guess its the bad side of your word "gooey" :) | 02:45 |
| @rizen | it's always fascinating to try and match up conotations of words across cultures and languages | 02:46 |
| @rizen | i think that's why there will never be a perfect "universal machine translator" | 02:47 |
| nuba | yeah, well, other words could be used too, but they're not quite fit for being posted here ;) | 02:47 |
| @rizen | because you may understand the word's base meaning, but in context it means something different, and then there's also a cultural perception of the word | 02:47 |
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| ckotil | Where do the defenitions from Operations/Settings.pm get inserted into the db? | 03:56 |
| ckotil | im assuming www_editsave sub, but my new setting just will not get inserted into the settings table | 03:56 |
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| @rizen | you have to add a row to the database first | 03:57 |
| @rizen | it will only perform updates | 03:57 |
| @rizen | not inserts | 03:57 |
| ckotil | cool. | 03:58 |
| ckotil | :] | 04:05 |
| ckotil | trigger added. | 04:07 |
| ckotil | performs workflow upon login | 04:07 |
| @rizen | and it works with no workflow specified as well? | 04:09 |
| ckotil | i gotta figure out how to add the NONE optino | 04:13 |
| ckotil | easy enough. and the trigger will pry only need to check to see that the value isnt none. | 04:14 |
| ckotil | yeah looks good. | 04:37 |
| ckotil | shall i post what i have to the dev board? | 04:38 |
| ckotil | for you all to look at | 04:38 |
| @rizen | email the changed files to me | 04:39 |
| @rizen | or better yet | 04:39 |
| @rizen | diffs of the changed files | 04:39 |
| ckotil | k | 04:39 |
| ckotil | hrm, the diff is pretty fugly. i think due to newline breaks | 04:44 |
| @rizen | did you reformat the whole file? | 04:44 |
| ckotil | nah, upgraded this dev box today :/ | 04:45 |
| ckotil | ill just add my changes | 04:45 |
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| PedersenMJ | good evening | 05:19 |
| +Radix-wrk | mornin PedersenMJ | 05:36 |
| PedersenMJ | Heya Radix-wrk how's it going? | 05:37 |
| +Radix-wrk | Great! | 05:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, that's great! what's happening that makes it great? | 05:37 |
| +Radix-wrk | Looks like I may be spending a few weeks in August on WebGUI as part of my work sabbatical.. AND travelling to Europe at the same time ;) | 05:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Very nice. Very nice indeed. | 05:38 |
| +Radix-wrk | still a way away yet, but my boss has given me the go-ahead, so gotta just organise the details now :) | 05:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Now I'm bummed. My approvals amount to "go ahead and order that software, and those PCs" Never anything cool like "Take a trip to Europe, work on WG, and we'll pay you for it" | 05:41 |
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| +Radix-wrk | hehe.. normally mine would be the same - but my sabbatical is way overdue, so company owes me :) | 06:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | dang! | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | where's vayde when you need him? | 07:01 |
| +perlDreamer | mythbusters are doing ninja myths | 07:01 |
| +perlDreamer | and it would be cool to get direct feedback from the master | 07:01 |
| +Radix-wrk | he's probably sworn to secrecy anyway | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | true | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | He could tell me, but then he'd have to kill me | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and my family | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and my pets | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | coworkers, too | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | then he's sow my fields with salt | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | set the flocks free to wander | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | burn my house | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | poison the well | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and then he'd get mean | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I hear you're Europe bound, Radix-wrk | 07:11 |
| +Radix-wrk | Looks like it! :) | 07:12 |
| +Radix-wrk | Boss has giveb me the go-ahead, and spoke with Joeri at Oqapi and he's keen too - so looks like I'll be spending a couple of weeks in Amsterdam early august and then heading to the YAPC at the end of that month | 07:13 |
| +perlDreamer | Sweet! | 07:14 |
| +Radix-wrk | Just need to finalise dates and work out a travel plan | 07:14 |
| +Radix-wrk | gf is going to join me in the last couple of days of Amsterdam, and we'll go travelling from there. gf and I spent the weekend picking places on google maps and trying to figure out where we wanted to travel to :) | 07:14 |
| +Radix-wrk | Looks like I'll be away from the office for 2 months basically | 07:15 |
| +perlDreamer | it sounds really fun | 07:15 |
| +Radix-wrk | It's gonna be awesome :) | 07:15 |
| +perlDreamer | You'll have to drop in and keep us up to date every now and then. | 07:16 |
| +Radix-wrk | Well I'll have my laptop with me, and dslr - so will be doing a full travel log I'm sure ;) | 07:16 |
| +perlDreamer | My wife is very jealous | 07:21 |
| +Radix-wrk | no doubt - I would be too if it was someone else going :) | 07:23 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning! | 15:56 |
| midellaq | good morning | 16:09 |
| SDuensin | Hi midellaq | 16:12 |
| xootom | hello | 16:12 |
| xootom | has anyone used events management? | 16:13 |
| SDuensin | Not me. | 16:13 |
| ckotil | nope | 16:16 |
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| AMH_bob | Goedemiddag | 16:34 |
| SDuensin | Hey AMH_bob | 16:34 |
| AMH_bob | Hi SDuensin | 16:34 |
| AMH_bob | I'm starting to get the hang of the WebGUI API, just keep on digging using find and grep! | 16:35 |
| @rizen | wahoo 22 irc peeps | 16:36 |
| @rizen | new record | 16:36 |
| SDuensin | Hey rizen | 16:36 |
| @rizen | howdy sd | 16:37 |
| AMH_bob | Who is the main maintainer of the API POD's? | 16:38 |
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| @rizen | every developer that has commit access | 16:38 |
| @rizen | part of the procedure is | 16:38 |
| @rizen | if they add/modify/delete something they must update the pod | 16:38 |
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| AMH_bob | Ok, every now and then I bump into something, and I'ld like to change it or at least tell someone about it. | 16:42 |
| AMH_bob | Like the POD of the Form::Image - the description is all wrong (probably a copy-paste error) | 16:42 |
| @rizen | if at some point in the future you have committ access you can just go ahead and fix those kinds of things. for the time being though, you can submit a bug report about it | 16:44 |
| @rizen | documentation errors are bugs also | 16:44 |
| AMH_bob | Ok, I'll start by putting this one in :) | 16:46 |
| ckotil | ouch. 1 karma = .0625 karma rank on one of my rfe's | 17:06 |
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| @rizen | Haarg, are you here? | 17:09 |
| @Haarg | yeah | 17:10 |
| @Haarg | just starting | 17:10 |
| @rizen | we have a server migration to do | 17:10 |
| @rizen | started 10 minutes ago | 17:10 |
| SDuensin | I moved 11 sites in 2.5 hours last night. Beat that! | 17:10 |
| SDuensin | (That was Email, web, FTP data, DNS, etc.) | 17:10 |
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| +perlDreamer | rizen: We have a new record today | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | 22.5 people (0.5 for Ha*rg twice) | 21:36 |
| +crythias | they all just want to see me dance. | 21:36 |
| @rizen | it was 22 earlier today as well | 21:37 |
| @rizen | this makes it official | 21:37 |
| SDuensin | 23 people and dead silence. :-) | 21:37 |
| +crythias | hey. any more dead silence, and this might be as exciting as #perl | 21:38 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 21:38 |
| +crythias | So I thought... what would happen if I mixed WebGUI with Beryl... | 21:43 |
| +crythias | http://www.coolthings.com.au/images/slime_barrel_contents_large.jpg | 21:43 |
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| ckotil | i dont get it | 21:43 |
| ckotil | beryl is amazing | 21:43 |
| +crythias | I misspelled Beryl | 21:44 |
| ckotil | they managed to rip off evreything cool about osx and vista | 21:44 |
| ckotil | and xwindows | 21:44 |
| +perlDreamer | there's cool stuff in Vista? | 21:44 |
| SDuensin | There's cool stuff about Vista? | 21:44 |
| ckotil | hah | 21:44 |
| SDuensin | bwhahaha | 21:44 |
| ckotil | yeah the aero gui | 21:44 |
| * perlDreamer kindly asks SDuensin not to rummage around in his head anymore | 21:44 | |
| * SDuensin has been installing Vista and VS2005 all frickin' day. | 21:44 | |
| +crythias | It's a gooey barrel | 21:45 |
| ckotil | i get it | 21:45 |
| +crythias | ah, ... tough crowd, tough crowd. | 21:45 |
| ckotil | goooo | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | vayde: Are you home? | 21:54 |
| @vayde | Im here. whazzup? | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | Did you see Mythbusters last night? | 21:56 |
| @vayde | have I been failing to chime in on an irreverent or violent topic? My apoligies =) | 21:56 |
| +perlDreamer | They did ninja myths | 21:56 |
| @vayde | No, I don't have cable at the moment | 21:56 |
| @vayde | nice | 21:56 |
| +perlDreamer | They did the walking on water myth, stopping sword with clapping hands myth. | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | Both busted. | 21:57 |
| @vayde | I really want to see the one where they try to cut swords with other swords. I only saw the trailer, and they don't know how to use one very well | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | They eventually used a mechanical rig to do it. | 21:58 |
| @vayde | I dunno, they might want to be careful... you never know where a ninja might be lurking | 21:58 |
| @vayde | did they? | 21:58 |
| @vayde | Hmm, when they did shooting and archery stuff, they got an expert. I'd like to see the experiments done with one of the 'experts' | 21:58 |
| @vayde | I'm not a big fan of cutting stuff with swords, but there are plenty of Japanese style swordsmen who live for that kind of thing. | 21:59 |
| @vayde | I don't really know though. I stick to cutting people. People are pretty easy to cut. Anyone can do it. | 21:59 |
| SDuensin | Anyone can do it if the other guy doesn't know how to use his blade. | 22:00 |
| SDuensin | I've sparred with people who were just untouchable. | 22:00 |
| @vayde | of course... or doesn't have one. | 22:00 |
| @vayde | The iaido set I learned way back was developed pre WWII by emptying villages in china and the phillipines, and doing 'research' | 22:01 |
| @vayde | nice eh? | 22:01 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 22:01 |
| @vayde | I don't like to claim to be 'untouchable'. There's no retreat from that position. I prefer to say 'I'll make it as difficult as I can for you' | 22:02 |
| @vayde | who knows? I have bad days too. | 22:02 |
| SDuensin | I did some "heavy weapons" stuff in the SCA. Only time I "killed" one of the guys, it was an accident. I didn't even see it happen. | 22:04 |
| @vayde | LOL | 22:06 |
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| perlmonkey2 | Two days and I'm 214 into 724 of my norm data comparisons. I think I have some time to start on the the survey enhancements. | 03:05 |
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| SDuensin | Good morning! | 16:01 |
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| @rizen | what's so good about it? | 16:32 |
| @rizen | =) | 16:33 |
| SDuensin | It's FRIDAY! | 16:34 |
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| @rizen | indeed, and my wife's birthday | 16:39 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 16:41 |
| pjesi | :) | 16:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 16:41 |
| pjesi | rizen: what was the scam in the ACME voting? | 16:42 |
| @rizen | we found that some guy named pjesi voted 12 times | 16:42 |
| pjesi | lol | 16:42 |
| pjesi | no really | 16:42 |
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| +Radix_ | Mmmm... baileys, franjelico and kahlua on ice.. | 17:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | mmmmm, cold beer... | 17:24 |
| SDuensin | BEER! | 17:24 |
| +Radix_ | Hey.. isn't it a bit early for you to be drinking beer MrHairgrease? :) | 17:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 17:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's 16.30 | 17:26 |
| +Radix_ | Ahh.. beer-o-clock then | 17:26 |
| xootom | 15:30 here :) | 17:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | better get used to it | 17:27 |
| @vayde | hey, if it's Beer-o-clock there, then it's ok here too right? | 17:27 |
| +Radix_ | hehe | 17:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure | 17:27 |
| * vayde looks at the clock, and sees 9:27 | 17:27 | |
| +Radix_ | it's after 9am.. should be fine | 17:27 |
| @vayde | well, I DO know drunken boxing... | 17:29 |
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| +Radix_ | Great movie.. drunken master 2 was a classic | 17:33 |
| +Radix_ | Wong Fei Hung | 17:33 |
| +Radix_ | There are two rules for success: 1. Never tell people everything you know. | 17:35 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 17:36 |
| @rizen | 23 a new record! | 17:42 |
| +Radix_ | we had 24 last night briefly | 17:46 |
| @rizen | wahoo another new reccord | 17:47 |
| @rizen | =) | 17:47 |
| @vayde | Folks, I have an announcement to make. I'm going to be leaving PlainBlack. I plan to stay on as a volunteer dev, so you guys aren't totally rid of me. | 17:51 |
| +Radix_ | :( | 17:52 |
| +Radix_ | how come? | 17:52 |
| @vayde | I found out how much my soul was worth. | 17:52 |
| +Radix_ | microsoft? | 17:53 |
| @vayde | I got another offer, and between the $$$ and the benefits, and my poor health, I really have to take it. | 17:53 |
| @vayde | No, my soul is worth a bit more than that. | 17:53 |
| @vayde | I'll be hacking perl for Us Bank | 17:53 |
| +Radix_ | Well sad to see you leave us so quickly, but wish you all the best | 17:54 |
| @vayde | Like I said, I don't plan to give up wG | 17:56 |
| @vayde | I'm terribly impressed by the project and the community | 17:56 |
| +Radix_ | Good :) | 17:56 |
| @vayde | I want to stay a part of that. | 17:56 |
| +Radix_ | Well no complaint's at our end about that.. | 17:56 |
| +Radix_ | not that we'd voice them.. you'd probably beat us up ;) | 17:57 |
| @vayde | lol | 17:57 |
| +Radix_ | ;) | 17:57 |
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| @rizen | ckotil, are you here? | 20:50 |
| * SDuensin always thinks that says "cocktail". | 20:52 | |
| ckotil | yup | 20:57 |
| * ckotil is trigger happy | 20:59 | |
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| @rizen | ckotil, i was just going to tell you what i said via email | 21:10 |
| ckotil | ok | 21:10 |
| @rizen | you seriously underestimate your skills | 21:11 |
| ckotil | :) | 21:11 |
| ckotil | thanks. | 21:11 |
| @rizen | i think you're doing well | 21:11 |
| @rizen | i just sent you a new list of triggers to implement | 21:11 |
| ckotil | ive dabbled in programming for about 10 years. just never took it too seriously | 21:11 |
| ckotil | ok cool. | 21:11 |
| @rizen | there are enough triggers we can implement that I could keep you working on it all summer long | 21:11 |
| @rizen | =) | 21:11 |
| ckotil | hehehe | 21:12 |
| @rizen | the more triggers there are, the more powerful the workflow engine becomes | 21:12 |
| @rizen | mainly because people can always add workflow activities | 21:12 |
| ckotil | indeed | 21:13 |
| @rizen | but you have to change the core to add a trigger | 21:13 |
| * SDuensin plays Weird Al's "Trigger Happy" | 21:13 | |
| @rizen | SD, i'll be done with the asset spec formerly known as webdb this weekend | 21:13 |
| @rizen | so we can talk next week about zkd and wg | 21:14 |
| SDuensin | Rock on. I'm currently adding a logging facility to it and a vastly improved database editor. :-) | 21:14 |
| @rizen | see if zk was in webgui you wouldn't even need to do those things | 21:17 |
| @rizen | wg provides them | 21:17 |
| SDuensin | I don't think it's going to provide the kind of psycho database editor we're after. It's nuts. | 21:18 |
| @rizen | ok...but at least you'd have webgui's kick ass form control library for presenting the editor | 21:20 |
| ckotil | turn it into an asset | 21:20 |
| +Radix_ | Does anyone here understand css hierarchies? | 21:21 |
| SDuensin | Forms, schmorms! I've got ZK! :-P | 21:21 |
| SDuensin | Radix_, if anyone does, I want them to explain it to the IE team. | 21:21 |
| +Radix_ | I have a template I'm trying to get working with webgui | 21:22 |
| +Radix_ | the css is all hierarchical | 21:22 |
| ckotil | can i look at it/ | 21:22 |
| ckotil | ive never heard this term. | 21:22 |
| ckotil | ive seen liek a#hover a#vistited | 21:23 |
| ckotil | that sort of thing. | 21:23 |
| +Radix_ | so it expects a div called "post", and then an item under it called "title" and "content" | 21:23 |
| +Radix_ | problem is webgui uses divs everywhere, and it's not working.. but I don't know how to fix it properly without hacking up the css majorly | 21:23 |
| +Radix_ | and de-hierarching it | 21:24 |
| +Radix_ | As for the template - I'm converting this one to webgui - http://www.freecsstemplates.org/preview/newfangled | 21:24 |
| +Radix_ | it's quite nice, and very generic | 21:24 |
| ckotil | nice. | 21:24 |
| +Radix_ | converting everything into templates - so style template/layout template/article templates/etc | 21:25 |
| +Radix_ | but getting the css to work for articles is driving me crazy | 21:26 |
| +Radix_ | well.. without hacking it up anyway | 21:26 |
| +Radix_ | I know I can force it to work - but I'd love to understand how to do it nicely :) | 21:26 |
| ckotil | oh | 21:27 |
| ckotil | so like <div class="post"> <div class="date"> whatever </div> </div> ? | 21:29 |
| +Radix_ | yeah | 21:29 |
| ckotil | .post .title span { is confusing me tho | 21:29 |
| +Radix_ | in the css though it's described as .boxed, then .boxed .title, and then .boxed .title h2 | 21:30 |
| +Radix_ | it's hierarchical | 21:31 |
| ckotil | ah, so. <div class="post"> <div class="title"><span> whatever</span> </div> </div> would get styled by .post .title span { | 21:32 |
| +Radix_ | yep | 21:32 |
| ckotil | so what has you stuck? | 21:32 |
| +Radix_ | problem though is if you have another div class before it you're screwed - and they're needed everywhere | 21:33 |
| ckotil | ohhh | 21:33 |
| +Radix_ | every content item in webgui has a div class="dragable"> before the assets are put in for example | 21:34 |
| +Radix_ | I didn't realise that until I started playing with firebug | 21:34 |
| ckotil | so even hacking the css would be a pain. | 21:34 |
| ckotil | what if you used #id's | 21:34 |
| ckotil | to explicitly state which divs you want to use the style | 21:35 |
| +Radix_ | yeah, this is where my knowledge is a bit shonky | 21:36 |
| ckotil | me too ;p | 21:36 |
| ckotil | i was just throwing it out there | 21:36 |
| ckotil | but i think thats what id's are for in css | 21:36 |
| @Haaarg | <Radix_> problem though is if you have another div class before it you're screwed - and they're needed everywhere > how does this cause a problem? | 21:36 |
| ckotil | the css would need to read .draggable .post .title span , for isntance | 21:36 |
| +Radix_ | Haaarg: then it doesn't match the class hierarchy and so doesn't work | 21:36 |
| @Haaarg | no it wouldn't | 21:37 |
| +Radix_ | no? | 21:37 |
| @Haaarg | <div class="parent><div class="ch1"><div class="ch2><div class="ch3"><span></span>... .ch1 .ch3 span { would match the span | 21:38 |
| bopbop_ | maybe we can get PB's css god out here to help us...meatbog oh meatbop, where are you? | 21:39 |
| +Radix_ | hmm.. well that's new to me then | 21:39 |
| +Radix_ | I've never quite understood .css vs #css and how it all works.. just never had much getting css that has hierarchies in it working in webgui | 21:40 |
| @Haaarg | .css is for a class | 21:40 |
| @Haaarg | any element can have multiple classes | 21:40 |
| @Haaarg | and classes can appear multiple times in a document | 21:41 |
| @Haaarg | #css is an id | 21:41 |
| @Haaarg | an element can only have one id | 21:41 |
| @Haaarg | and it can only appear once in a document | 21:41 |
| @Haaarg | '.big {' or '.fancy {' will match <div class="big fancy"></div> | 21:42 |
| +Radix_ | hmm.. okey.. that's one mystery solved then - wonder why this css styling isn't working then | 21:43 |
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| Meatbop | I hear someone had a question about CSS and webgui? | 21:45 |
| +Radix_ | yep.. me :) | 21:46 |
| Meatbop | problem solved or do you still need a hand? | 21:46 |
| +Radix_ | I'm trying to take some css from an open source template and get it working in object templates - but it's getting stomped somewhere along the way. I've just learnt a bit about how css does the parsing thanks to Haaarg, and looking into it again now. | 21:47 |
| +Radix_ | It's on a laptop here atm.. not really accessible on the net or I'd show you all | 21:48 |
| Meatbop | getting stomped somewhere eh? | 21:48 |
| Meatbop | is it a style template, a collaboration system template....? | 21:48 |
| +Radix_ | article in this case | 21:48 |
| Meatbop | so how are you trying to implement it? | 21:49 |
| +Radix_ | I'm converting this one to webgui - http://www.freecsstemplates.org/preview/newfangled | 21:49 |
| +Radix_ | it has a .boxed css | 21:50 |
| +Radix_ | and trying to wrap that in an article template called "boxed template" basically | 21:50 |
| Meatbop | ok, I think i get what you're saying | 21:52 |
| Meatbop | so you can have articles that you can drag and drop around the page that have those blue headers, blue background gradient, etc? | 21:52 |
| +Radix_ | yup | 21:52 |
| Meatbop | where are you putting the css for this template? | 21:53 |
| +Radix_ | got it in a snippet | 21:53 |
| +Radix_ | I'll see if I can create a package and dump it on a demo site.. then you can see what I've done | 21:54 |
| Meatbop | using the snippet as an external css file, or are you just assetproxying it in? | 21:54 |
| +Radix_ | as an external css file | 21:55 |
| Meatbop | k, go ahead and package it up and drop it on a demo site and i'll take a quick look | 21:56 |
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| +Radix_ | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1177691288_630/styles/newfangled/sample/sample-page | 22:04 |
| +Radix_ | admin/123qwe | 22:05 |
| Meatbop | ok well it's looking pretty good to me except for the titles | 22:08 |
| +Radix_ | titles, background images, and fonts | 22:09 |
| +Radix_ | which seems to be a css thing - for some reason it's not picking them up | 22:09 |
| Meatbop | the titles weren't working because you forgot to put a surrounding h2 tag within the div that calls the title class | 22:10 |
| Meatbop | i made the change, take a look | 22:10 |
| +Radix_ | I'm probably doing something wrong somewhere, but my css is pretty shakey | 22:10 |
| Meatbop | still in a version tag | 22:10 |
| +Radix_ | cool | 22:10 |
| Meatbop | I think you're doing a good job here, just need to watch out for those pesky little tags here and there | 22:11 |
| +Radix_ | I'm slowly getting there | 22:11 |
| Meatbop | hey, you're doing really well | 22:12 |
| Meatbop | keep it up, this is good work | 22:12 |
| +Radix_ | now that Haaarg has explained how css really does it's parsing, I should be able to get the boxes rounded properly hopefully | 22:13 |
| Meatbop | cool, good luck with that. You're pretty darn close it looks like | 22:14 |
| +Radix_ | yeah, nav object still to wrap - then I'll be happy | 22:15 |
| +Radix_ | and want to make post article template put user/date too if I can find the right tmpl_var's for it | 22:15 |
| +Radix_ | Thanks for your help Meatbop, Haaarg, and ckotil - I'll keep whittling away at it this weekend, but right now it's time for bed - almost 3.30am here :) | 22:22 |
| ckotil | later. | 22:25 |
| +perlDreamer | Alfresco is dog slow | 22:53 |
| SDuensin | What about Alfresco? | 22:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I read an article on LWN.net about it. | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | It competes with wG | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | but it's done in Java instead of Perl | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | one cool thing about it is that you can interface it over CIFS | 23:00 |
| @rizen | that's super cool | 23:01 |
| @rizen | i've wanted to do that forever | 23:01 |
| @rizen | i looked at alfresco a while back | 23:01 |
| @rizen | they're doing some neat things | 23:01 |
| +perlDreamer | we should undercut their prices, steal their customers and run them out of business! | 23:02 |
| SDuensin | I've been looking at running it *with* wG so I can have some document management. | 23:03 |
| SDuensin | Anybody know a way to read a MediaWiki site offline? | 23:05 |
| ckotil | buy there cd | 23:08 |
| SDuensin | I don't want Wikipedia. I want to read the Torque Developer's Network offline. | 23:12 |
| ckotil | wget -r the url? | 23:13 |
| SDuensin | I gotta log in to the site first. :-( | 23:14 |
| ckotil | oh | 23:14 |
| ckotil | you dont have a login? | 23:14 |
| SDuensin | Yes, but how do I send it using wget? It's not an HTTP BASIC login, it's a login in the wiki software. | 23:15 |
| ckotil | perlDreamer: my group was looking at alfresco | 23:15 |
| ckotil | oh, ya, that does sound like a problem | 23:15 |
| ckotil | pd: we were evaluating file repository systems. i ended up getting them to use webgui, since it runs our website | 23:16 |
| SDuensin | Ok, that was easy. Copied my cookies.txt from my Firefox profile and told wget to use it. :-) | 23:18 |
| ckotil | nice | 23:18 |
| ckotil | i was gonna suggest some cookie trickery | 23:18 |
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| +perlDreamer | rizen: I want to fix a Michelle's bug about version locking. It's very pervasive throughout the Assets, and I'd like to add a new Session::Privilege method for accessing locked Assets. Sound okay? | 23:34 |
| @rizen | no idea what the bug is | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Editing of a locked Asset by a user who should not be able to. | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | canEdit => 1 | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | canEditIfLocked => 0 | 23:37 |
| @rizen | is there a bug report? | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/able-to-edit-locked-template#CnYfHW486qZ9A60J7pkh0w | 23:37 |
| @rizen | how does adding a session privilege method fix the problem? | 23:39 |
| +perlDreamer | It doesn't, but after I add in the fix I'd like to return an error message specific to the locking problem. | 23:40 |
| +perlDreamer | "This Asset is locked for editing under a version tag different from the one that you are using." | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | The fix is to add a $self->canEditIfLocked check to every edit method in every Asset. | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | so the whole fix would look like this: | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | return $self->session->privilege->locked unless $self->canEditIfLocked(); | 23:42 |
| @rizen | all you really need to do is add it on www_editSave | 23:42 |
| @rizen | it doesn't matter if they can view the properties of the asset | 23:42 |
| @rizen | as long as they can't save it | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | Yeah, I thought about that, but right now it's designed so that you can't even see the editing interface if it is locked via the Asset toolbar. | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | But that's just how to fix it. Is it okay to add the new error message? | 23:46 |
| @rizen | sure | 23:47 |
| +perlDreamer | If you want it fixed via www_editSave, I can do that. | 23:49 |
| SDuensin | Ok, time to head for the hills. Later all! | 23:49 |
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| * perlDreamer heads to the showers, back in 20 | 23:50 | |
| ckotil | heading home. | 23:53 |
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| +Radix_ | Anyone awake? | 06:39 |
| @preaction | yeup | 06:41 |
| +Radix_ | article object doesn't have any template variables about who posted it, date, etc - is that the case? | 06:42 |
| +Radix_ | I just looked at Article.pm and it has heaps of description fields, but not much else | 06:42 |
| @preaction | processTemplate should automatically add $asset->get to the vars, so just try revisedBy and revisionDate maybe? | 06:43 |
| +Radix_ | Okey.. I'll try those | 06:43 |
| +Radix_ | Hmm.. well that kinda works.. need a macro to convert it to something legible now it looks like :) | 06:45 |
| +Radix_ | "Posted by 3 on 1177730771" | 06:45 |
| @preaction | i think there's already macros for user ids and epoch times | 06:46 |
| +Radix_ | Hmm.. neither ^User nor ^Username take userid parameters | 06:47 |
| @preaction | ^D(<tmpl_var revisionDate>); and ^User(<tmpl_var revisedBy) | 06:47 |
| @preaction | of course, you may actually want createdBy and revisionDate, but i dunno | 06:47 |
| +Radix_ | don't think either of those macros work that way tho - ^D takes a formatting string and always outputs the current date, while ^User only takes profile fields you want output as the parameters | 06:49 |
| @preaction | huh... how useless are those template vars then. why are they even there? | 06:50 |
| @preaction | i suppose custom macros, but whatevz | 06:50 |
| +Radix_ | actually.. ^D may be okay.. the epoch date is the second parameter | 06:51 |
| +Radix_ | maybe I'll just abandon using the article and use a CS system for the posts.. that has all those variables | 06:54 |
| @preaction | the macro for UsernameFromId would be two lines :p | 06:55 |
| @preaction | screw that, one line | 06:55 |
| @preaction | return WebGUI::User->new(shift, shift)->username; | 06:55 |
| +Radix_ | yeah, but I'm trying to write a basic style that I can package and share, was hoping not to have to include custom macro's for it | 06:55 |
| @preaction | perhaps just "Last updated: ^D(); | 06:56 |
| @preaction | and no username | 06:56 |
| +Radix_ | yeah, could do | 06:56 |
| +Radix_ | I'll do it using a css system tho.. much neater and get full rss support then too.. will work out better | 06:57 |
| +Radix_ | cool.. that's better now :) | 07:28 |
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| +Radix_ | hey vayde | 17:28 |
| @vayde | mornin | 17:29 |
| @vayde | er, probably not where you are eh? | 17:29 |
| +Radix_ | nah, but it never will be the same ;) | 17:29 |
| +Radix_ | you got a minute to look at something briefly for me? | 17:30 |
| @vayde | sure, what's up? | 17:30 |
| +Radix_ | Does this page fully load for you? - http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1177769139_260/styles/newfangled/sample/sample-page | 17:30 |
| @vayde | depends on what you mean by full. | 17:31 |
| +Radix_ | or does it come up white background with no style. etc | 17:31 |
| @vayde | white background. | 17:31 |
| +Radix_ | and this one? http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1177769139_260/styles/newfangled/sample/sample-page?op=auth;method=logout | 17:31 |
| @vayde | no style. 2 latin paragraphs copyrights, terms of use, privacy links on the bottom | 17:31 |
| +Radix_ | so looks the same then? | 17:31 |
| @vayde | second one comes up fine | 17:32 |
| @vayde | style and all | 17:32 |
| +Radix_ | okey.. same as me then.. | 17:32 |
| +Radix_ | got any clues as to why it would work with the ?op=xxx and not without it? | 17:32 |
| @vayde | that is wierd. | 17:33 |
| +Radix_ | yeah - it's stumped me | 17:33 |
| +Radix_ | page source seems to indicate that it's like chopped out the whole middle of the file | 17:34 |
| @vayde | and it's just a layout | 17:35 |
| +Radix_ | I even imported the style package into two different demo sites and it did it twice | 17:35 |
| +Radix_ | so it's consistent, whatever it is | 17:35 |
| @vayde | Yeah, that's nice I guess | 17:36 |
| @vayde | I'll ponder it. So much of wG is still black magic to me. | 17:37 |
| @vayde | Is it all auth functions that make it display full? | 17:37 |
| +Radix_ | Oh.. and to all of us - JT is the only one who knows wG enough not to call it black magic methinks ;) | 17:37 |
| @vayde | lol | 17:38 |
| +Radix_ | it works fully in admin mode | 17:38 |
| +Radix_ | it wasn't until I logged out and then tried to trim the auth/logout bits that I noticed the prob | 17:38 |
| @vayde | And there's no permissions issue that you know? | 17:39 |
| +Radix_ | I'm very close to having the whole style finished and ready to go, wanted to check it on the demo pages and then run a html checker on it | 17:39 |
| +Radix_ | not as far as I know, every object in the package should be set to viewable by everyone, editable by admin | 17:40 |
| @vayde | the style certainly looks good. Have you tried it anywhere else? | 17:40 |
| +Radix_ | works fine on my dev box here | 17:40 |
| @vayde | could the problem be something with the pb demo setup? | 17:40 |
| +Radix_ | maybe | 17:40 |
| @vayde | you don't see anything like the problem locally? | 17:40 |
| +Radix_ | not at all | 17:40 |
| +Radix_ | but older version of webgui on dev box | 17:41 |
| @vayde | Hmm. | 17:41 |
| +Radix_ | using 7.0.8 on my dev box | 17:42 |
| @vayde | I don't have a dev setup on my laptop anymore. I screwed up in reinstalling the os. When I get it back up tonight or tomorrow we can test it there | 17:42 |
| +Radix_ | yeah, no probs :) | 17:43 |
| +Radix_ | if rizen drops in at all today I might ask him if he's got any idea | 17:43 |
| @vayde | yeah, that's probably the easiest. | 17:43 |
| @vayde | I'm leaning in favor of the demo setup being wierd though. | 17:44 |
| @vayde | One way or another, I gotta get my dev wG back up. It's not going to happen for a few hours though. I have classs starting shortly, and a seminar all afternoon | 17:44 |
| +Radix_ | Yeah, I want to update my dev box too.. got ubuntu dapper drake on it and want feisty fawn :) | 17:45 |
| +Radix_ | not to mention update my webgui version | 17:46 |
| @vayde | I was using a dapper version of the wre on my fiesty until I broke perl | 17:46 |
| @vayde | now I gotta see if I can get away with installing the dapper or edgy tarball | 17:46 |
| +Radix_ | yeah, i was thinking the same thing | 17:47 |
| @vayde | hey, do you know anything about how cpan communicates? | 17:47 |
| +Radix_ | I had a play with feisty on my other laptop tho.. and beryl rocks | 17:47 |
| @vayde | the whole mess started up when I couldn't get cpan to work through my firewall | 17:47 |
| @vayde | yeah. It's addicting | 17:47 |
| +Radix_ | Hmm.. did you have a proxy set? | 17:48 |
| @vayde | my studio software loads in a burst of infernal flame.... I thought it fitting. | 17:48 |
| @vayde | nope | 17:48 |
| @vayde | I usually keep iptables set to drop anything thats not related/established | 17:48 |
| @vayde | and it totally blocks cpan's ftp/lwp calls | 17:48 |
| @vayde | I can pull down the firewall, cpan, put it back up, but that's a pain. | 17:49 |
| +Radix_ | what was cpan trying to use to connect? | 17:49 |
| @vayde | ftp I think | 17:49 |
| +Radix_ | there's a variable http_proxy and ftp_proxy in wget, links, etc which can cause issues if set | 17:50 |
| +Radix_ | I found one of my boxes had that configured at one point even though I'd never put it in myself | 17:50 |
| @vayde | hmm. I wonder if it's set by default in feisty. I never had a problem with dapper | 17:50 |
| @vayde | I didn't use edgy. laptop ran too hot | 17:51 |
| +Radix_ | my laptop with feisty worked fine out of the box tho | 17:51 |
| @vayde | mine too | 17:51 |
| @vayde | I'm pleased so far with fiesty | 17:52 |
| @vayde | just never type 'cpan -r' | 17:52 |
| +Radix_ | remove? | 17:52 |
| @vayde | though, to be honest, that didn't break anything. I just didn't know what surprises might be lurking | 17:52 |
| @vayde | recompiles all your perl modules | 17:52 |
| @vayde | and the apache perl modules | 17:52 |
| +Radix_ | Ahh.. | 17:52 |
| +Radix_ | which cpan were you using tho? | 17:53 |
| +Radix_ | the one in the wre? | 17:53 |
| +Radix_ | and you ran ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment" first? | 17:53 |
| @vayde | no, the wre was fine | 17:54 |
| @vayde | my normal perl was affected | 17:55 |
| @vayde | it all worked fine. I just was paranoid about whaat might be waiting to break later. | 17:55 |
| +Radix_ | ahh k | 17:55 |
| +Radix_ | maybe that's what I'll do now.. put feisty fawn on this box :) | 17:58 |
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| @vayde | Radix_, wre for edgy works fine with feisty | 19:27 |
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| +Radix_ | yup, the dapper one does too actually | 20:09 |
| +Radix_ | I just installed feisty, unpacked my /data backup and voila.. works fine. | 20:09 |
| SDuensin | Hello. | 20:09 |
| +Radix_ | hey SD | 20:10 |
| SDuensin | Ever use rsync to backup WebGUI? | 20:11 |
| +Radix_ | I've never used rsync actually.. | 20:13 |
| +Radix_ | I've always meant to learn how it works, but never had time :) | 20:13 |
| SDuensin | My site is currently about 8 GB. I really don't want to do a full backup every night. | 20:14 |
| +Radix_ | fair enough :) | 20:14 |
| SDuensin | I'm in southern Illinois near St. Louis. My data is in Michigan. Not going to go pick up DVDs or tapes either. :-) | 20:15 |
| @vayde | SD, I can't think why rsync wouldn't work for you. I've copied the whole /data directory onto a new system with no problems | 20:47 |
| SDuensin | I was just concerned it'd make it mad trying to copy in-use files. | 20:51 |
| +Radix_ | I generally do entire archives of the /data directory using tar/gzip while in-use. | 20:52 |
| +Radix_ | Just make sure you do an sql dump as well.. just in case | 20:52 |
| +Radix_ | I do four-hourly backups of our server at work | 20:53 |
| SDuensin | That works. The WRE does dumps to /backup, so I'll be getting those, too. | 20:55 |
| SDuensin | My backup is going to be a sync of "/". :-) | 20:55 |
| @vayde | I dunno about in use stuff. I've only copied my dev installation. Only problems I've experienced with rsync is between my ext3 filesystem on the laptop and the vfat one on my mp3 player | 21:02 |
| @vayde | even then it copys fine, it just insists that certain files have to be recopied all the time. | 21:02 |
| SDuensin | Probably due to some kind of metadata missing on vfat. Security info or something. | 21:03 |
| @vayde | yeah that's what I figured. permissions and the like | 21:03 |
| SDuensin | I'm running out of hardware here at home, so I'm going to use a Windows box with VMware so I can back up to ext3. | 21:04 |
| SDuensin | At least until I can get more drives. | 21:05 |
| SDuensin | Then it'll likely be the Mac HPFS system. | 21:05 |
| * SDuensin likes HPFS - he can read and write to it from all his OSs. | 21:05 | |
| @vayde | If I had a spare toshiba micro drive sitting around, I'd experiment with getting rockbox and ext3 going on the player. | 21:06 |
| @vayde | but I don't, and haven't cared enough to dig into it | 21:06 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 21:06 |
| @vayde | updating music via rsync is just a long term effort. plug it in, walk away, come back later | 21:07 |
| * SDuensin calls that "iTunes". | 21:07 | |
| @vayde | yeah, yeah, yeah | 21:07 |
| * vayde likes owning his music | 21:08 | |
| SDuensin | I don't use the music store. It's all MP3. | 21:08 |
| SDuensin | Although, EMI has gone DRM free! | 21:08 |
| @vayde | I prefer oggs. better sound, same size or smaller file | 21:09 |
| @vayde | hopefully the labels will quit putting pressure on player makers to drop ogg support | 21:09 |
| SDuensin | I hear ya. MP3s are easier to trade. :-) | 21:09 |
| @vayde | true | 21:12 |
| * vayde has few friends though | 21:12 | |
| SDuensin | Awww, that's sad. | 21:12 |
| SDuensin | Almost everything I listen to with my iPod these days are podcasts anyway. | 21:16 |
| @vayde | I actually haven't been using mine much. i have music servers at home and in the studio. I'm very spoiled | 21:23 |
| SDuensin | I spend two hours on the road each day. Podcasts keep me sane. | 21:24 |
| @vayde | Yeah, I'm gonna have to start commuting again. ugh! | 21:24 |
| SDuensin | Podcasts. :-) | 21:25 |
| @vayde | so, tell me this, technically what is a podcast? | 21:25 |
| SDuensin | Technically it's an RSS feed with attachments. | 21:25 |
| @vayde | so you're getting it over what, your phone? | 21:25 |
| SDuensin | Effectively, it's on-demand "radio". | 21:26 |
| SDuensin | I use iTunes to subscribe to them and it keeps my iPod up-to-date with things I haven't listened to yet. | 21:26 |
| @vayde | ok. I follow. | 21:26 |
| SDuensin | You need a "pod catcher" to subscribe to them and it will manage your subscriptions. | 21:26 |
| @vayde | I dunno, the whole lure of a player for me was the ability to have my whole music library in the palm of my hand. I'm not much for 'radio' of any type. | 21:27 |
| @vayde | my music tastes are too eclectic and ephermal | 21:27 |
| SDuensin | Eclectic? Like my complete discographies of Iron Maiden and Jimmy Buffett? :-) | 21:29 |
| @vayde | heh. I've got em both too. | 21:29 |
| SDuensin | Running my iPod on "shuffle" could be hazardous to your brain. | 21:29 |
| @vayde | well, my jimmy buffet collection isn't really complete | 21:30 |
| SDuensin | Mine was until he released a new disc a week ago. | 21:30 |
| @vayde | I always wondered about that | 21:30 |
| @vayde | Even I dont really want to swing back and forth between Bach, Iron Maiden, Type O Negative, and Nena Simone | 21:31 |
| SDuensin | You should at least try some podcasts - I find they pass the time much better than music on my drives. | 21:31 |
| SDuensin | Iron Bach! | 21:31 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 21:31 |
| SDuensin | Mine's got Beethoven instead of Bach on it. | 21:31 |
| @vayde | Do you remember the beer commercials a few years ago where they were combining professional sports? | 21:31 |
| SDuensin | Vaugely. | 21:32 |
| @vayde | *muffled voice* "he's approaching the first tee. he's gauging the green., here's the backswing AND OHH MAN1 HE'S SACKED!!! | 21:33 |
| SDuensin | hehehe | 21:33 |
| SDuensin | I do remember that. | 21:33 |
| SDuensin | Got Game Show Network on here. I think this show looks for stupid people so they don't have to award any prizes. | 21:35 |
| @vayde | heh. that works I guess | 21:36 |
| SDuensin | Oh man. I like game shows, but I can't watch this. My wife is napping and I'm about to start screaming at the TV. | 21:37 |
| SDuensin | Time to catch up on my Stargate. :-) | 21:38 |
| @vayde | heh. | 21:39 |
| @vayde | I have a sword seminar to teach. | 21:39 |
| @vayde | I'll talk to you later | 21:39 |
| @vayde | hey Radix_, my dev wG is up | 21:39 |
| SDuensin | Swords are fun. :-) | 21:40 |
| @vayde | I don't know how you send or receive style stuff, but if you tell me how to get yer new one up, I can test and see if it breaks o 7.3.16 | 21:40 |
| @vayde | Yeah. this one is really a light saber | 21:40 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 21:40 |
| @vayde | Chinese Straight Sword is basically lightsaber technique | 21:41 |
| @vayde | really cool | 21:41 |
| SDuensin | "You're not my father!" | 21:41 |
| @vayde | if you really had a laser sword that could cut through anything, thihs is how you would use it | 21:41 |
| SDuensin | Very carefully? | 21:41 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 21:41 |
| @vayde | you would never need to hack with it like they do in the movies | 21:41 |
| @vayde | yep | 21:41 |
| @vayde | thing is, a weapon like that would be dangerous at a touch. no need to make big swings | 21:42 |
| SDuensin | No kidding. | 21:42 |
| @vayde | Straight sword is similar. Due to the technique, they were able to get away with a much sharper sword than normal | 21:42 |
| SDuensin | Unlike the good old European medieval crap I learned. Swing like it's a baseball bat. Well, with better aim. :-) | 21:43 |
| SDuensin | If he's got a bigger stick than you, stand on top of him and hit 'em in the back. <G> | 21:43 |
| @vayde | yeah, but in lots of cases those weapons were for penetrating some kind of armor | 21:44 |
| @vayde | that changes things. | 21:44 |
| @vayde | oh well. I gotta run. my public awaits... | 21:44 |
| SDuensin | Right. | 21:44 |
| SDuensin | See ya! | 21:44 |
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| +Radix_ | vayde: http://www.plainblack.com/user_contributions/user_contributions/packages/theme-newfangled | 22:44 |
| +Radix_ | and with that.. I'm off to bed.. nite | 22:45 |
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| Hinrik_ | hm | 23:45 |
| Hinrik_ | http://www.plainblack.com/wcc/acme-code | 23:45 |
| Hinrik_ | this is over, right? | 23:45 |
| Hinrik_ | if so, who won? | 23:46 |
| --- Day changed Sun Apr 29 2007 | ||
| @vayde | Hinrik_ rizen discovered that folks were cheating by voting multiple times. There either is or will be a re-vote for registered folks only. I havent heard anything else about it. | 00:08 |
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| pjesi | yeah apparently pjesi voted 12 times :) | 02:22 |
| @rizen | yeah, pjesi is a dick | 02:23 |
| @rizen | always trying to cheat and stuff | 02:23 |
| @rizen | how goes it pjesi? | 02:24 |
| pjesi | rizen: :D | 02:26 |
| pjesi | I am trying to make something useful to enter to this months wcc | 02:26 |
| @rizen | this being the month for styles? | 02:26 |
| pjesi | yes | 02:27 |
| @rizen | cool...i'm not sure if anyone has even entered yet | 02:27 |
| @rizen | you might get a default victory | 02:27 |
| @rizen | =) | 02:27 |
| pjesi | probably there will be some last minute entries | 02:27 |
| pjesi | >) | 02:27 |
| pjesi | how many points does a post get when I give it thumbs up} | 02:32 |
| pjesi | s/}/? | 02:32 |
| @rizen | just 1 | 02:32 |
| @rizen | it takes 1 from you and gives it to them | 02:32 |
| pjesi | I think there might be a bug in the system | 02:33 |
| pjesi | because I remember giving a ACME entry thumbs up and it got the rating 12 | 02:33 |
| pjesi | then I did not vote on the submissions, but later you joked (I hope) about me voting 12 times so I was wondering if that was a related | 02:34 |
| @rizen | i was joking | 02:36 |
| @rizen | the voting problem wasn't on the threads | 02:36 |
| @rizen | it was on the poll for wcc | 02:37 |
| @rizen | and it had nothing to do with you | 02:37 |
| pjesi | ok, that is what I thought | 02:37 |
| pjesi | just wasnt 100% | 02:37 |
| pjesi | :) | 02:37 |
| pjesi | well, girlfriend waiting in bed so I guess that is it for the day :D | 02:38 |
| pjesi | good night | 02:38 |
| @rizen | later | 02:38 |
| +Radix_ | rizen: I just posted a style for the wcc comp | 05:23 |
| @rizen | wahoo!!! i think that's the first one | 05:23 |
| +Radix_ | well.. posted it last night anyway | 05:23 |
| +Radix_ | I couldn't attach a picture to the contribs package tho.. it kept on ignoring it if I did | 05:24 |
| @rizen | yeah, there's a bug in the cs right now | 05:24 |
| +Radix_ | ahh k | 05:24 |
| @rizen | post a URL to the original design instead | 05:24 |
| +Radix_ | yeah, did so | 05:24 |
| @rizen | there's not one in the post | 05:25 |
| @rizen | just to the site where it came from | 05:25 |
| @rizen | but not the design itself | 05:25 |
| +Radix_ | You mean a picture of it? | 05:25 |
| @rizen | no...there should be a page on the site you got it from for that design | 05:25 |
| @rizen | that demo's it | 05:25 |
| @rizen | is there not? | 05:25 |
| +Radix_ | yeah, I included that in the post | 05:26 |
| @rizen | where? | 05:26 |
| @rizen | http://www.plainblack.com/user_contributions/user_contributions/packages/theme-newfangled | 05:26 |
| +Radix_ | at the end of it | 05:26 |
| @rizen | i see 3 links | 05:26 |
| @rizen | oh | 05:26 |
| @rizen | it's not linked | 05:26 |
| +Radix_ | Ahh yes, you're right | 05:26 |
| @rizen | that's what i was missing | 05:26 |
| @rizen | it's a very pretty design | 05:26 |
| +Radix_ | Yeah, I like it | 05:27 |
| +Radix_ | I ran into an interesting problem when trying to upload it to the demo site tho | 05:28 |
| @rizen | what's that? | 05:29 |
| +Radix_ | This is an earlier copy of it without a few fixes, but does this page fully load for you? - http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1177769139_260/styles/newfangled/sample/sample-page | 05:30 |
| +Radix_ | yet this one will? http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1177769139_260/styles/newfangled/sample/sample-page?op=auth;method=logout | 05:30 |
| @rizen | no | 05:30 |
| +Radix_ | same url, but the second one has a ?op=xxx at the end which for some reason makes it load properly | 05:31 |
| +Radix_ | I think it's something quirky with the demo site - but I've no idea what | 05:31 |
| +Radix_ | I can't reproduce it here | 05:31 |
| @rizen | oh | 05:32 |
| +Radix_ | if you look at the page source for the first link, it's like a huge chunk of html from the middle is missing | 05:32 |
| @rizen | i know what it is | 05:32 |
| @rizen | well i might know | 05:32 |
| +Radix_ | oh? | 05:32 |
| @rizen | the demo site uses a gateway url other than / | 05:32 |
| @rizen | it's the url of the demo | 05:33 |
| @rizen | are you using / anywhere in the design instead of ^/; | 05:33 |
| +Radix_ | I thought I converted the links to ^/; - but maybe I missed something | 05:33 |
| +Radix_ | it seems wierd for it to work fully in admin mode and even admin turned off tho | 05:34 |
| @rizen | that is weird | 05:34 |
| +Radix_ | but then not if I remove any ? portions of the url | 05:34 |
| @rizen | actually | 05:34 |
| @rizen | if it works while in admin mode | 05:34 |
| @rizen | perhaps it's a privileges issue | 05:34 |
| @rizen | maybe one of your snippets or files requires the user to be logged in | 05:35 |
| +Radix_ | I set everything in that entire branch to be visible to everyone/admin | 05:35 |
| @rizen | did you tripple check? | 05:35 |
| +Radix_ | and with that second url - noone is logged in | 05:35 |
| +Radix_ | the ?op=auth;method=logout should mean that they're not logged in | 05:36 |
| +Radix_ | I get the login box displayed correctly and everything | 05:37 |
| +Radix_ | admin/123qwe if you wanted to look btw | 05:37 |
| @rizen | i'm just throwing out suggestions man | 05:38 |
| @rizen | common things people screw up | 05:38 |
| +Radix_ | yeah, I know :) | 05:38 |
| +Radix_ | it's got me stumped tho.. it's just... odd. | 05:38 |
| +Radix_ | two urls, both should be identical for all intensive purposes, but one consistently doesn't work.. | 05:39 |
| @rizen | actually it doesn't matter what you put on the url, for example, this works: http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1177769139_260/styles/newfangled/sample/sample-page?d | 05:39 |
| @rizen | i just checked the server log, nothing is erroring server side | 05:39 |
| +Radix_ | okey.. I reckon it might be cache then | 05:39 |
| @rizen | i deleted the cache on the server also | 05:39 |
| @rizen | just for giggles | 05:39 |
| +Radix_ | nothing with ? in is in the cache generally is it? | 05:40 |
| @rizen | all depends | 05:40 |
| +Radix_ | proxy cache? | 05:40 |
| @rizen | no proxy for me | 05:40 |
| +Radix_ | Wierder and wierder.. | 05:40 |
| @rizen | i can narrow it down for you | 05:44 |
| @rizen | it only happens with the layout | 05:44 |
| @rizen | if you apply the style to another asset not using that layout template | 05:44 |
| @rizen | it works fine | 05:44 |
| @rizen | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1177769139_260/styles/newfangled/templates | 05:45 |
| +Radix_ | odd | 05:45 |
| +Radix_ | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1177769139_260/styles/newfangled/sample/home works too | 05:46 |
| +Radix_ | I think that one does have the layout set | 05:46 |
| +Radix_ | it's not something I can reproduce anywhere else tho, only on the demo site | 05:47 |
| @rizen | still, the demo site is what we'll use to judge | 05:47 |
| @rizen | and most likely other people too | 05:47 |
| @rizen | keep working on it | 05:47 |
| @rizen | i have to go spend some time with the chica before she disowns me | 05:47 |
| +Radix_ | enjoy :) | 05:51 |
| +Radix_ | hmm.. if I hide the main article at the top, it works | 06:01 |
| +Radix_ | okey.. so it's definitely that article.. | 06:24 |
| +Radix_ | something in that html causes everything to screw up.. it's totally wierd as it's just plain html | 06:25 |
| +Radix_ | If I put the same html in the collaboration system as a post, then the post is uneditable after that | 06:26 |
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| pjesi | bahh | 11:50 |
| pjesi | I just commited my style and it disappeared | 11:51 |
| +Radix_ | :( | 11:53 |
| pjesi | just setup wre on edgy, seems like it is impossible to commit | 11:54 |
| +Radix_ | Umm.. is spectre running? | 11:55 |
| pjesi | it looks like it | 11:55 |
| +Radix_ | restart spectre maybe? | 11:55 |
| +Radix_ | I'm using the wre on feisty myself | 11:55 |
| pjesi | added dev.localhost.localdomain to /etc/hosts | 11:56 |
| pjesi | now it works :) | 11:56 |
| +Radix_ | sweet | 11:56 |
| +Radix_ | I'm actually using the dapper wre build, but running it on feisty with no probs | 11:57 |
| pjesi | yeah it runs smoothly, I really should have specified a hostname | 11:58 |
| Hinrik | 12:12 | |
| * pjesi looks for plain <ul> navigation template | 12:24 | |
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| pjesi | wow 30 characters in the search input box | 13:30 |
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| pjesi | Radix_: didnt you have any difficulties with upload permissions on ubuntu? | 14:28 |
| pjesi | nvm | 14:35 |
| pjesi | damn permissions in uploads | 16:54 |
| +Radix_ | hmm? | 16:55 |
| pjesi | I cannot add new images | 16:55 |
| +Radix_ | don't worry.. it's a bug | 16:55 |
| pjesi | 2007/04/29 14:54:38 - ERROR - dev.localhost.localdomain.conf - main::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=undef - Couldn't read image to check the size of it: Exception 435: unable to open image `/data/domains/dev.localhost.localdomain/public/uploads/Oj/7k/Oj7kCNY0e0FBgAoMlZdbWw/n2.gif': No such file or directory | 16:55 |
| pjesi | this is a bug? | 16:55 |
| +Radix_ | oh | 16:56 |
| pjesi | sorry | 16:56 |
| pjesi | I dont know why wikipedia is there | 16:56 |
| +Radix_ | there's a bug in the contributions section of plainblack's site | 16:56 |
| +Radix_ | and maybe in the cs system itself, I'm not sure | 16:56 |
| pjesi | ok | 16:56 |
| +Radix_ | it won't accept pictures, no matter how you upload them | 16:57 |
| pjesi | I am just uploading images to my local wre to finish my theme | 16:57 |
| +Radix_ | hmm.. i uploaded mine all through filepile | 16:57 |
| pjesi | I used the image one | 16:57 |
| pjesi | perhaps I will try the wonderful filepile | 16:58 |
| pjesi | looks like it works | 16:59 |
| pjesi | thanks | 16:59 |
| pjesi | perhaps it is a bug in WebGUI::Asset::File::Image | 17:00 |
| * pjesi takes Radix_' theme for a spin | 17:06 | |
| +Radix_ | heh | 18:14 |
| +Radix_ | what do you think? | 18:14 |
| pjesi | It looks nice. I just took a quick look, mainly to get an idea of what to include in a theme | 18:24 |
| pjesi | WebGUI would benefit greatly from a generic theme skeletion which is easy to style just by using CSS | 18:26 |
| pjesi | Radix_: did you not include login in your theme? | 20:59 |
| SDuensin | Anybody alive? | 21:40 |
| pjesi | \o | 21:42 |
| SDuensin | :-P | 21:42 |
| SDuensin | Nevermind - figured it out. So there! :-) | 21:42 |
| SDuensin | CPAN wasn't showing me any love. | 21:43 |
| pjesi | :) | 21:43 |
| * SDuensin remembers to install "make" prior to configuring CPAN in the future. | 21:44 | |
| pjesi | man I hate to install email servers | 21:45 |
| pjesi | SDuensin: let me guess, Ubuntu? :) | 21:45 |
| SDuensin | BING! BING! BING! BING! You win! | 21:46 |
| SDuensin | I'm working on building a backup server. | 21:46 |
| pjesi | they should ship a Devuntu or something | 21:46 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 21:47 |
| SDuensin | Easy enough to fix. I just forgot. | 21:47 |
| pjesi | true | 21:47 |
| SDuensin | 9 gig over a cable modem. This is going to be fun. | 21:48 |
| pjesi | wow | 21:49 |
| SDuensin | Yea. Once the initial sync is done, it'll be much less data. | 21:50 |
| pjesi | is it from a hosting provider? | 21:50 |
| * SDuensin is using backuppc.sourceforge.net | 21:50 | |
| SDuensin | (Or trying to.) | 21:50 |
| pjesi | :) | 21:50 |
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| +crythia1 | Hello. briefly will be here and then go | 22:09 |
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| +Radix-wrk | Just updated my newfangled style - fixed the validation errors and cleaned it up a bit. Added a login box and reworked it to use the default webgui pages rather than my own sample files.. I think this neatened it up a bit and fixed the wierd demo errors at the same time. | 04:54 |
| +Radix-wrk | I also took a leaf out of your book pjesi and included a copy of the license and a readme in the package as snippets - as I think that's a good idea to adopt :) | 04:55 |
| +Radix-wrk | Anyway.. version 1.1 of newfangled is up :) | 04:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | rizen: are you being a good guy and hanging with the chica, or are you hacking tonight? | 05:48 |
| @rizen | the chica just went to bed | 05:49 |
| +perlDreamer | early riser? | 05:49 |
| @rizen | i was discussing something with SD, but now i'm thinking about watching some tv | 05:49 |
| @rizen | nope | 05:49 |
| @rizen | early to bed, late to rise | 05:49 |
| @rizen | loves her sleep | 05:49 |
| +perlDreamer | I wish I could do that | 05:49 |
| @rizen | usually gets about 10 hours per night | 05:49 |
| +perlDreamer | Do you remember why you moved WebGUI::Storage->tar to use File::Find instead of getFiles? | 05:51 |
| +perlDreamer | If it helps, it's SVN rev 1402 | 05:52 |
| @rizen | cuz getFiles isn't recursive | 05:53 |
| @rizen | and even if it were it's not as efficient as File::Find | 05:53 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, cool | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe getFiles should use it too... | 05:55 |
| @rizen | but then getFiles would be recursive | 05:55 |
| @rizen | which we don't want | 05:55 |
| @rizen | we want tar to tar up an entire directory | 05:56 |
| @rizen | but getFiles is only supposed to get the stuff directly in the storage location | 05:56 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 05:58 |
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| pjesi | Radix_: good job, I did not include the login box but I guess I should add it as well | 13:15 |
| +Radix_ | I included it in an object which was in the sample, but when you mentioned you couldn't find the login I realised that everyone else is going to have the same issue so decided to include it in the style by default. | 13:27 |
| pjesi | some clients prefer not to have visible login on their site | 13:36 |
| +Radix_ | true | 13:37 |
| +Radix_ | but it's easy to remove.. like 3 lines in the style template ;) | 13:37 |
| pjesi | true :) | 13:38 |
| +Radix_ | I just tried converting zenlike ( http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3559 ) - but for some reason the upper text box and logo cover up the admin bar in webgui when used. | 13:40 |
| pjesi | I noticed that you include a template in the ^AdminBar() macro, is it something better than the default or? | 13:41 |
| +Radix_ | it is the default | 13:42 |
| pjesi | how long time did it take you to convert newfangled? | 13:43 |
| +Radix_ | hehe.. was my first one really, so took me ages | 13:44 |
| +Radix_ | this time around I'm a little wiser hopefully | 13:44 |
| pjesi | hehe | 13:44 |
| +Radix_ | most of those templates have identical css blocks too | 13:44 |
| +Radix_ | which makes it easier if you've done it before | 13:44 |
| +Radix_ | half the problems I had were because I didn't understand css properly | 13:45 |
| pjesi | I need to refactor the css files in NonZero but I dont have time atm | 13:45 |
| pjesi | so every change was quite difficult | 13:45 |
| pjesi | I would love to rewrite the WebGUI templates to move away from inline styles and presentation html elements to a more generic structure which would make the theming just as simple as filling in one css file | 13:47 |
| +Radix_ | yeah, would be great to just adopt a similar naming convention to something like wordpress or something, then it'd just work out of the box most of the time for any of those themes | 13:59 |
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| pjesi | for instance, I did not find any solution to style images without also styling the asset menubar's icons | 14:08 |
| pjesi | and forms are tricky as well | 14:08 |
| +Radix_ | You can style image objects | 14:50 |
| +Radix_ | but they have to be styled as an object | 14:50 |
| +Radix_ | Sorry.. that was unclear | 14:50 |
| +Radix_ | they have to be inserted as image objects, not through the rich text editor | 14:50 |
| +Radix_ | I've got a litebox wrapper for images which is awesome.. unfortunately it doesn't work in IE for some inane reason so it's useless | 14:51 |
| ckotil | litebox 2.0 doesnt work in IE? | 16:02 |
| pjesi | litebox? | 16:09 |
| ckotil | this neat js image gallery app | 16:14 |
| +Radix_ | nope | 16:22 |
| +Radix_ | it kills it totally hey.. I have no idea how to debug it even | 16:22 |
| +Radix_ | https://www.formsys.com/internal/staff/jesse/test-pages/lightbox-test | 16:23 |
| +Radix_ | try that in ie :) | 16:24 |
| +Radix_ | lightbox 2 didn't work properly either.. wouldn't get the image size right and would fail to draw it properly on the screen | 16:25 |
| +Radix_ | which is why I tried litebox | 16:25 |
| +Radix_ | I suspect it's a javascript clash of some sort.. perhaps with the yui library, or one of the js stuff I already had on my site.. but I don't know | 16:26 |
| +Radix_ | wierd that it works in firefox and opera, but not in ie | 16:26 |
| @preaction | morning everybody! | 16:28 |
| pjesi | afternoon! | 16:29 |
| @preaction | Monday? | 16:29 |
| pjesi | yes | 16:29 |
| +Radix_ | evening | 16:29 |
| +Radix_ | monday was wet and rainy here | 16:29 |
| @preaction | you aussies and your crazy time zones | 16:29 |
| pjesi | monday is hot and shiny here | 16:29 |
| +Radix_ | pjesi is in iceland ;) | 16:29 |
| pjesi | nahh, I live in Oxford atm | 16:30 |
| pjesi | will move back to Iceland in September | 16:31 |
| +Radix_ | Ahh.. email address is just .is | 16:31 |
| +Radix_ | cool | 16:31 |
| @preaction | bah, america sucks, where should i expatriate to? | 16:31 |
| +Radix_ | Unfortunately you've corrupted our government too.. johnny is just a G W Bush follower | 16:32 |
| pjesi | I moved to Oxford last September | 16:32 |
| pjesi | so I am looking forward to the ice :D | 16:32 |
| +Radix_ | You won't miss the sun? | 16:32 |
| @preaction | so tony blair is blindly following the dubya, now australia's premiere is following the dubya... i wonder when crechen will start stepping the line... | 16:33 |
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| +Radix_ | Second WebGUI theme now up: Zenlike | 18:14 |
| @rizen | nicely done radix | 18:19 |
| @rizen | you and pjesi have picked some really pretty themes to convert | 18:19 |
| @rizen | i wonder why PedersenMJ hasn't submitted any themes | 18:20 |
| @rizen | i was sure he was going to be in this contest | 18:20 |
| xootom | very nice templates | 18:21 |
| xootom | newfangled is great, does it keep the tab highlighted while you're in that area of the site? | 18:21 |
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| pjesi | xootom: yes it does | 18:23 |
| +Radix_ | yup | 18:35 |
| +Radix_ | there's a bug in zenlike.. for some reason it hides the top inch or so of the admin bar | 18:35 |
| +Radix_ | I have no idea why.. I think it's zindex, but couldn't find anything that changed it | 18:35 |
| +Radix_ | it's still xhtml compliant, but it's a little annoying | 18:36 |
| +Radix_ | figured I'd finish converting it tho, as it IS a nice theme regardless | 18:36 |
| +Radix_ | pjesi's one is very cool too.. fluid and fixed designs, and multiple colours :) | 18:36 |
| pjesi | preparing v0.2 | 18:42 |
| pjesi | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1177947601_80 | 18:42 |
| pjesi | :) | 18:42 |
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| @preaction | pjesi: very nice. i vote for a new default webgui design there ;) | 18:53 |
| pjesi | thanks | 19:14 |
| @preaction | but then i found the other ones from the contest, and i still pick your latest one. i like the colours | 19:14 |
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| pjesi | I guess it is nice for new user to have some flavours to choose from | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | It makes more comparable to the popular CMSes like Drupal, Nuke, etc. | 19:17 |
| pjesi | the problem with those is that the html is in the php code | 19:22 |
| pjesi | I can't stand it | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | It's like getting peanut butter in your chocolate! | 19:43 |
| pjesi | :) | 19:46 |
| @preaction | i was under the impression that first prize in this contest WAS to get your style included with the defaults of WebGUI | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/wcc/best-webgui-site-style | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | It doesn't say that anywhere in the contest posting | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | but it would be a very cool prize! | 19:54 |
| @preaction | sunnuva... i thought that'd be the best prize | 19:54 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings at last! | 20:06 |
| pjesi | greetings! | 20:07 |
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| greghacke | rizen: you try Catan: Struggle for Rome yet? | 23:51 |
| @rizen | didn't know it was even out | 23:53 |
| greghacke | will mail you a copy - rocks on toast. | 23:53 |
| @rizen | sweet | 23:53 |
| --- Log closed Tue May 01 00:00:55 2007 | ||
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