WebGUI irc logs from: 2007-05.log

--- Log opened Tue May 01 00:00:55 2007
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greghackerizen: query, what are the cinsiderations on setting the ft_stopword_file to NULL and remove the existant and efault stopword list?00:26
@rizenno idea00:26
@rizennever done it00:27
greghackePart of the long discussions a while back on fulltext searching and the MySQL stopword list.  in 5.x and above, you can configure the st_stopword_file to null and it will search for the, who, etc.00:27
greghackemy concern of course is system overhead.00:27
@rizenyeah, i know it can be done00:28
@rizeni just don't know the implications of doing it00:28
@rizeni don't know if it affects performance00:28
@rizendatabase size00:28
greghackeworking to optimize some queries and finding that i use two fulltext queries and although i'd like no stopwords, i question the affects.00:29
greghackeeh, prolly just start testing it locally00:29
greghackesomething to work on after thursday's test i guess00:30
@rizendo let me know what you find out00:31
greghackeof course.  am working today to post my wikis on EMS.  i think next will be optimizing sql reports in wG00:31
+perlDreameraccording to the MySQL dev docs, the stop words list is optimized for performace00:49
+perlDreamerso if you clear it, you should see a slow down00:49
greghackeit's optimized for performance for US/English.00:50
greghackeyep.  and some of the words don't neccessarily work for some of my host sites.  Sure, 'the' is a bad search word.  but when you have 40 products called "who's Who" with who as a blocked word...00:51
@rizenpd, do you know how to make control characters while in vim?00:58
@rizenlike if i wanted to create the control character for escape it should be ^[00:58
@rizenbut just typing it doesn't actually make it a control character00:58
@rizenor another one would be ^M which should be a carriage return00:59
+perlDreamerCtrl-V then just type your character00:59
@rizenthank you00:59
+perlDreamerI'm just a walking vim and perl lexicon ;)00:59
greghackevim rocks but i get so lost it in sometimes ;)00:59
@rizenyou rule man01:00
+perlDreamerrizen: I got asked a hosting question yesterday that I had no answer for.01:00
+perlDreamerWhy do people allow PHP scripts to be uploaded by anyone?01:00
+perlDreamerIt makes installation dead easy, but it's a huge security risk.01:00
+perlDreamerWhy don't people take the same risk with Perl?01:01
@rizenwell there are a few things01:01
@rizenperl has access to more system level stuff01:02
@rizendue to xs bindings01:02
@rizenand in order to just "upload and run" perl would have to run in cgi mode01:02
@rizenand most perl apps that are worth anything, are designed for modperl rather than just simple cgi01:02
@rizensome hosting companies do allow you to just upload cgi scripts though01:02
@rizenand then finally01:03
@rizenany big perl app will likely require some external modules from cpan01:03
@rizenbecause as a community we reuse code a lot01:03
@rizenphp scripts more often just copy and paste their modules directly into their own codebase01:03
@rizenit may seem that this is more inflexible to a noob01:04
@rizenbut in reality, it provides for a more robust and secure environment01:04
+perlDreamerThat makes sense.01:05
+perlDreamerIt's hard to explain to people why they can't use wG on their $5/month hoster.01:05
@rizentell them that webgui is designed to go on a stand alone server01:07
+perlDreamerThen how do I sell them on PB hosting?01:08
@rizenand if they just want it for their personal web site, then use one of the hosting options out there01:08
greghackei just point them to the virtual hosting from pB.  it's cost efficient.01:08
@rizenpd, i think you might shit bricks when you see the thing i'm about to submit to the dev list01:11
@rizenand it works because of the advice you just gave me01:11
* perlDreamer prepares for code constipation01:12
pjesiman I am tired of YUI hacking01:13
pjesiso many files to include01:15
pjesiand javascript is just terrible01:16
@rizenpd, i take it back, i think it's cool, but you probably already know about all this01:17
+perlDreamerYou're an awful tease, rizen.01:17
pjesispecially when then head block of my template is rendered in the body of the page01:18
@rizenpd...i might have a problem with webgui best practices01:23
@rizendamian says that each line should be no longer than 78 lines01:23
@rizenbut 78 lines is less than half my screen01:24
@rizensorry, 78 cols01:24
+perlDreamercan you break before/after an operator?01:24
@rizenwell you can...i'm just saying it's going to be annoying01:24
@rizenbecause it will add a lot more scrolling01:24
+perlDreamerI agree. PBP starts by saying that _you_ need to set a standard and then have everyone follow it01:24
@rizenmethinks we should set it bigger01:26
@rizenmaybe like 120 chars01:26
@rizenevery webgui developer is using a modern system that's at least 1024x76801:26
greghackethat is what i was about to ask.01:27
@rizenit does't even have to be that big01:28
@rizenwe could do 10001:28
pjesivi in terminal is usually 80 cols so people often recommend 78-79 cols max01:28
greghackei get 11901:28
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@rizenon my screen i can do 160 at normal res01:28
greghackei understand the vi at 78/79 but it was always a pain.01:28
@rizengreg, what res are you?01:29
@rizenpjesi, but how often are you editing webgui code from a terminal, without X windows so that you're stuck at 80 cols?01:29
@rizendamian cites two reasons for the size of 7801:30
@rizenone is to support older terminals01:30
greghackeoh, at full res, i can do 170 1440 x 900 on monitor one and mondo-huge 2560x1600 on two01:30
@rizenand the other is so your code prints out nicer on a printer01:30
@rizenneither of those things are things that webgui core devs do very often01:30
@rizenif ever01:30
pjesirizen: I dont, just saying that a lot of people have a bunch of terminals and use it for everything01:30
@rizenthose people aren't core devs01:31
@rizenand the core devs are the ones that have to follow these guidelines01:31
greghackeI would feel 100 would do fine and set a simple standard.01:31
greghacke120 is good but wide.  just not sure that only 20 extra characters is a big help.01:31
@rizengreg, what can you get in your terminal at 1024x768?01:32
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@rizeni have a widescreen monitor so i can't do 102401:32
greghackeat 1024 x 768, i get 119 characters width.01:33
greghackei have widescreen but my linux VM is 1024x768 and its what i get there.01:33
@rizenok, then methinks we should go for 11501:35
@rizenbecause 1024x768 is the lowest res any dev in webgui core will be using01:35
@rizenand most of us use much bigger ones01:35
greghackeoh, i do too - i'll just reset my res back to 2560 x 1600 for my VM and post it back to second monitor :-)01:36
@preactioni personally find it easier to read code vertically than horizontally01:39
* pjesi agrees01:39
@rizenme too01:40
greghackedepends on the code.  i like to read until a functional break and then scroll down to the next like.01:41
@rizeni've updated the wiki page01:41
+perlDreamerrizen: when does the new widget come out?01:42
@rizenwhat widget?01:42
+perlDreamerThat thing with vim character encoding01:43
@rizeni got side tracked cuz of this width thing01:43
greghackepersonally, i like 110 ;)01:43
@rizenwell your wrong. how does it feel to be wrong? i've never been wrong and you look like someone who would know.01:44
greghackefeels good!01:44
@rizenok, it's out01:58
@rizenthe thing that made me go "holy crap" was that i didn't know about the iab command before01:58
@rizenthat allows you to create inline replacements for vim01:58
+perlDreamerI'm liking wgwarn, et. al.02:00
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greghackenow to convert the vimrc.txt into a set of rules for Crimson Editor02:03
greghackejust the base elements.02:03
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PedersenMJgood evening :)04:57
@rizenhey ped, why haven't you contributed to this contest? I figured you of all people to win it05:04
PedersenMJHowzit going?05:04
@rizenpretty good05:05
@rizenexcept that vayde is an asshole05:06
* rizen feigns hate05:06
* vayde chuckles. 05:06
@vaydeI am that05:06
@vaydejust ask my ex wife05:06
* PedersenMJ makes a coupla signs, and puts one on rizen's desk, and one on vayde's. Rizen's reads "Pot". Vayde's? "Kettle"05:07
+Radix-wrkPedersenMJ is still hurting from the competition I gave him for the How To contest I reckon.. he's realised that second time around he ain't gonna be so lucky ;)05:26
PedersenMJI just wish I'd been able to focus this month. I didn't make *any* entries. Barely got anything accomplished at work. Got no code written at home. April was a wasted month for me.05:27
+Radix-wrkGood excuse ;)05:27
PedersenMJThanks. I spent the entire month working on it :)05:28
+Radix-wrk"You have 6666 karma to spend." - Muahahaha...05:41
+Radix-wrkyikes.. looks like a three-way tie for third place for the Acme code competition atm05:44
+Radix-wrkwith "XEyes" and "Come back already!" coming first and second place respectively05:44
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wgGuest40We just ordered a new server and we wanted to try webgui on it13:54
wgGuest40I read on the forum that a WRE 0.8 is planned.. Do you have any timeframe for it?13:55
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+Radix_not for a while yet I'm afraid15:18
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+Radix_WRE 0.7.2 should be fine to start with15:20
wgGuest40but more or less when it'll be out?15:28
wgGuest40we would like to plan server upgrades as much as possible15:29
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SDuensinGood morning (at last).16:18
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SDuensinHello bopbop_ 16:21
+Radix_wgGuest40: no idea when it'd be out - I don't think anyone knows at this point, tho Rizen may have a plan16:25
+Radix_woohoo.. 3 way tie for third place!16:26
SDuensinHey Radix_ 16:26
* SDuensin didn't even make the list. :-/16:26
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@rizensd, that's cuz you're a bad person17:33
@rizenwre 0.8.0 is giving me a headache17:39
SDuensin0.7.2 gave me a headache.  :-P17:40
@rizeni thought that turned out to just be a configuration problem?17:41
SDuensinYea, it was.  Complete user failure.  :-)17:41
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@rizencould you remind me in what way? perhaps i can eliminate that problem in 0.8.0 so that no one else has to go through what you went thru17:42
SDuensinBeing able to specify which IPs Apache and wremonitor listen to / check would fix it.17:44
SDuensinIt was mainly just finding everything I needed to change.  The WRE is new to me.  (Well, not so much anymore!)17:45
@rizenwremonitor already does that if you set the hostname to check18:08
@rizenso i guess i just need to ask that question during setup18:08
@rizenwhat hostname to check18:08
SDuensinRight.  :-)18:08
SDuensinAsking where to bind Apache would be spiffy, too.18:09
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@rizenonly for crazy bastards like you18:10
@rizenwho are crazy18:11
@rizenand looney18:11
SDuensinYes, but it works!18:11
SDuensinSo have it ask "Are you looney?  (y/N):  " and then prompt for the other two if they hit "Y".18:12
@rizenthe new setup program will be entirely web based18:12
@rizenso i'll just have a tab for looney18:13
+crythiasunbookmarkable tabs.18:13
+crythiashow hard is it to make tabs directly go-to able?18:14
SDuensinWeb based?  How do you set up the web server then?18:14
+crythiasshh :) That's logic!18:15
+crythiasactually, you could use a perl httpd temporarily.18:15
@rizenyeah, there will be a perl httpd daemon running the setup program18:16
@rizenwhen you run it, it will tell you what random port it's running on18:16
@rizenand then you go to the url18:16
+crythiashow does it do the cgi-ish stuff?18:17
+crythiasjust never mind.18:17
+crythiasassp does it, so there's no issue.18:17
@rizenyou're too funny18:18
@rizenthis is perl we're talking about18:18
@rizenit's the god of cgi18:18
@vaydeall hail perl!18:19
+crythias:-D How do ya get mod_perl into perl_httpd?18:19
+crythiasbtw, what opinion on my RFE for quick-add asset?18:22
@rizenyou should know by now that asking about an rfe before i've assigned it a karma rank will get it delayed18:23
+crythiasheh. then again, maybe I should ask about the high ranking RFEs :)?18:23
@rizeni think that since we haven't even branched for 7.4 yet, you shouldn't be asking about rfe's unless you're volunteering to write them18:24
+crythiasbtw.. I upgraded from 7.0.6 to 7.3.15 the other day. 18:25
+crythiasyes, actually, it was.18:25
@rizeni assume it went smoothly18:25
+crythiasyes. 4 sites.18:26
+crythiasfortunately no moving about of assets.18:26
@rizenthat's the goal...to get back to smooth upgrades18:26
+crythiasbtw, thanks for the vimrc18:27
@rizencry, do you code?18:28
@rizenor do you just use vim for sysadmin stuff?18:28
@rizenand you're welcome18:28
* SDuensin likes smooth upgrades.18:28
+crythiasonce in a blue moon. I'm [a|the] system administrator for a large church. I'm usually very busy.18:28
+crythiasvim for sysadmin stuff, mostly.18:29
+crythiasthe thing is, vimrc as you've provided rocks. especially since you included a skeleton.18:30
@rizenyeah, i tried to throw in lots of useful stuff, like color coding, history, macros, formatting, etc18:31
@rizenthis is the vimrc i use to write webgui18:31
@rizenso i figure it will be useful to other people that use vim18:31
+crythiasI just stumbled your dev annonuncement.18:32
* SDuensin wants to learn Emacs just so he can make it his shell and be an uber geek.18:32
+crythias(for stumbleupon. thumbs up)18:32
* vayde slaps SDuensin 18:33
@vaydewatch your mouth!18:33
* crythias wants to learn Emacs so he can use it to run vim.18:33
* SDuensin is a JOE fan, but you can't run Infocom games in it.18:33
@rizenJOE is for looney's18:33
@vaydereal men use vim18:34
@rizensnapcount was also a fan of JOE18:34
SDuensinWe've already established that I'm a looney.18:34
+crythiasvi improved and growing rapidly always...18:34
+crythiasthat's right. vimagra.18:34
+crythias"Take the blue pill!"18:36
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@rizeni've decided that i hate crythias because he makes RFE's that make me think too hard18:42
+crythiasoh, come on, I tried to be very specific.18:42
* SDuensin files an RFE for an AJAX desktop.18:43
+crythias[+] [art][cal][pol][wea]18:44
SDuensinActually, I've been reading up on YUI and thinking more about how to implement it.  It's *very* doable.  Like "I'm excited about it" kind of doable.  :-)18:44
+crythiasalthough I was thinking of icons instead of [art]18:45
@rizensd, that's awesome18:45
@rizencry, you suck18:45
@rizensucky mcsuckerton18:45
+crythiasum. ok... :?18:45
@rizencry, your rfe is making me think not because of what you're requesting18:46
@rizenbut because of what you said18:46
@rizenthere are a few things in there burning in my mind18:46
@rizen1) designing without worrying about the shift caused by the admin bar18:46
@rizen2) adding assets directly to a content position18:47
@rizen3) adding assets directly to a specific spot in a content position18:47
@rizeni could care less about how the [+] [art][cal][pol][wea] part was implemented18:48
@rizenbut it stirs up all kinds of other crap that i've been thinking about for a long time18:48
@rizenso much so that i can't focus on the request you're actually making without thinking about these other things18:48
@rizenand all the problems involved in them18:48
+crythiasif it helps, I was thinking about how the drag-placement tells the assets to re-order, so I thought some of that could be used, somehow...18:50
@rizenit doesn't help18:51
@rizenonce i get past the problems, the implementation will be easy18:51
@rizenbut there are all kinds of problems18:51
@rizenthere are human level problems, because the user interface changes18:52
@rizenand then there are technical problems, like the fact that assets have no knowledge of page layouts and/or content positions, nor should they18:52
@rizenbut in order to do what you're asking, they have to18:53
+crythiasok, what if there are "always" grey boxes between assets?18:53
@rizenthat doesn't help18:53
@rizenthe reason is this18:53
@rizenwhen you add a new asset18:53
@rizenit knows only what it's parent is18:53
@rizenit has no idea about content positions18:53
@rizenbut after you get back from the edit screen18:53
@rizenit needs to automatically position itself based upon what content position you added it to18:54
@rizenbut it doesn't know about content positions18:54
@rizensee...the endless loop18:54
@rizenif this were an easy problem to solve, then i would have already done what you're suggesting in your RFE18:55
+crythiaswho's the daddy? always the last asset?18:55
@rizencuz that was my original intent for the webgui 7 interface18:55
@rizenfor the purposes of this conversation, the parent is the page layout asset18:55
+crythiashow does a new asset know where to go as being the last asset in the loop?18:56
@rizenand the child is an article or whatever18:56
@rizenthe child doesn't know18:56
@rizenthe page layout asset automatically throws any children it doesn't know how to position18:56
+crythiasthat is, how does the child rank in its siblings?18:56
@rizento the bottom of the first content position18:57
@rizenordered by rank18:57
+crythiashow does it obtain a rank?18:57
@rizenall assets are ranked18:57
@rizenthat's how navigation knows what order to display them in18:57
+crythiasby creation?18:57
@rizenby default yes, but that can be editied18:57
+crythiasso one issue is that editing the asset is rank agnostic.18:58
@rizenno idea what you're saying18:59
+crythiasthe edit screen of an asset is rank agnostic. (doesn't care)18:59
@rizenbut that's not an issue19:00
+crythiasoops. I have a meeting. bbiah19:00
@rizenit has nothing to do with the problem19:00
@rizenok bye19:00
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cap10morganIf you put an HTMLArea in a DataForm and turn on Mail Data, is there a way to make the email send as HTML (and thus preserve the formatting from the HTMLArea)?19:37
+perlDreamercap10morgan: I've never tried that, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work.  Maybe it's a templating problem?19:43
cap10morganhmm... are the email headers in the template? or would i have to modify the dataform asset to set it as type text/html?19:44
+perlDreamerI don't think email headers are in the template.19:44
+perlDreamerNope, they're in the code.19:46
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cap10morganok, thanks pD20:15
cap10morgani'll look into it and contribute the feature if i end up coding it in there20:15
+perlDreamercap, you may also want to look at the Thingy spec that rizen published two days ago.20:24
+perlDreamerHe's not looking for feedback about it, unless you want to develop the part that you're feeding back about.20:24
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+perlDreamerwhat idiot decided that the close and quit bindkeys should be adjacent?21:05
+perlDreamerCtrl-W and Ctrl-Q21:06
+perlDreamerThey are way too close21:06
@rizenah, probably the same idiot that decided on a mac to have Apple Q and Apple Tab next to each other21:06
@rizenone quits, one pages through open apps21:07
+perlDreamerI see21:07
* SDuensin just learned to type. Solves those problems.21:07
+perlDreamerand since you want to rapidly page through apps...21:07
+perlDreamerrizen: I've decided that I'm going to become evil.21:07
@rizenan evil genius for a better tomorrow?21:07
+perlDreamerExactly!  I'm going to start writing backdoors into WebGUI so that I get control of Windows servers.21:08
+perlDreamerOf course, it will be cleverly disguised as bug fixes, RFEs and tests21:08
@rizeni c21:08
@rizen1 deleted subversion account coming up21:09
+perlDreamerThink of the work we won't have to do anymore.21:10
+perlDreamerNo more Windows for WRE21:10
+perlDreamerNo more filesystem semantics.21:10
@rizenyou sweet talker21:10
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+perlDreamerAnd no more windows support at the server level.21:11
+perlDreamerWe could even go one step further, and start hacking people who use IE.21:11
+perlDreamerJust replace it with Firefox with a skin.21:11
@vayde'together we will rule the galaxy....' ?21:12
+perlDreamer"There is no good and evil.  Only power, and those too foolish not to use it."21:12
@vaydewho are you quoting?  Palpatine?  or Napoleon?21:13
@vaydedefinitely an evil genius for a better tomorrow.21:13
+perlDreamerand I actually misquoted him21:14
+perlDreamer"There is no good and evil, there is only power, and those too weak to seek it..."21:15
@vaydeI think HP should start a campaign to refer to him as 'Old Voldy'  really mess with his head21:15
@vaydeevil geniuses rarely can laugh at themselves21:15
+perlDreamerIt's a character flaw21:15
+perlDreamerIt's the same one that makes them monologue21:15
+perlDreamerOf course, if I did hack it, I'd feel remorseful afterwards21:18
+perlDreamerAggrieved, even21:18
+perlDreamerI'd have to iron my hands21:18
+crythiasyeah, long hour.21:39
+crythiasso, rizen, you said that rank isn't the problem?21:39
@rizenwell your rankness can be a problem21:40
@rizenbut mine is worse than yours21:40
* crythias sniff his pits. eqe.. oh! I should have used *right* guard!21:41
@rizenrank has nothing to do with the problem at hand here21:41
@rizenand we can't use rank to solve the problem21:41
@rizenbecause rank is only 1 list21:41
@rizenand there can be many content positions on the page21:42
+crythiasbut the asset knows what content position_loop to be in ...21:42
@rizennope it doesn't21:42
@rizenthe page layout asset keeps track of that21:43
@rizennot each asset21:43
+crythiaswell, not the "asset", but the asset ends up in the proper (or is it just the last position_loop?)21:43
@rizenthe new asset just gets tagged on to the end of the first content position, because the page layout doesn't know what to do with it yet21:43
@rizenif we knew the assetid before the asset was created, then we could tell the page layout where to put it21:44
@rizenbefore going to the edit screen21:44
@rizenbut that doesn't happen until after you hit save21:44
+crythiasok, so greybox asset stubs?21:44
+crythiaschange assetstub asset type?21:45
@rizenwhat is assetstub?21:45
+crythiasa fictitious name for a greybox "between" assets that always exists, with an assetId.21:45
+crythiasI guess that is silly...21:46
@rizenthe only thing i can think of is that we change the asset API to allow an assetId to be passed in through the URL21:48
@rizenbut that seems dangerous to me21:48
@rizenlet's come back to this and talk about the shifting problem for a second21:50
@rizenthe problem where all the content has to be shifted over to make room for the admin bar21:50
@rizenthere's another RFE out there that wants to make the adminbar not scroll with the page because it renders really slowly on some browsers21:50
@rizeni think i know a way to deal with both problems at the same time21:51
@rizenwhat if the admin bar sat in a frame on the left side of the screen, and the content was included in a frame on the right side of the screen?21:51
@rizeni think that solves the problem21:52
@rizenin addition, i think that pages would load faster because the admin bar wouldn't have to be refreshed on every screen21:53
* perlmonkey2 ponders hiding from this channel because he knows he needs to start making some progress on the survey update.21:55
+crythias I'd like the admin bar to be a hovering div21:56
@rizenbut a hovering div covers content21:56
perlmonkey2what is it now?  iframe?21:56
+crythiasdraggable, hovering div21:56
@rizenit's a div that pushes over all the content on the page21:56
@rizenok cry...tell me this then21:58
@rizenyou're at the bottom of a long page21:58
@rizennow you have to scroll to the top where your draggable hovering div is21:58
@rizento do anything21:58
@rizenis that acceptable?21:58
@rizenhow could you not?21:58
+crythiasnot if the div can follow your scroll21:58
@rizenif it's draggable then you have to put it into position21:58
@rizenyou just said it was draggable21:58
@rizenis it scrolling or is it dragging?21:59
+crythiasit's fixed to position relative to window, not content21:59
+crythiasfixed: draggable to a ...21:59
@rizentell you what...create a static html page somewhere, with a div that does what you want it to do22:00
@rizencuz i don't understand you22:00
perlmonkey2I'm not sure that is possible.  You drag the div to a location.  Then you scroll down.  The div will not stay fixed, right?22:00
@rizenthat's what i'm saying22:01
@rizenyou can't have it scroll and drag22:01
perlmonkey2Geocities style?  Yuck.22:02
perlmonkey2Talk about a trainwreck for asethics.22:02
+crythiasthis is for admin, not users22:02
@rizencry...the admin bar already does the follow thing that you just pointed me to22:02
perlmonkey2Okay.....then groovy.22:03
@rizenthe problem i have is that i know how to make something draggable22:03
@rizenand i know how to make something follow the scroll bar22:03
@rizenbut i don't know how to make them do that at the same time22:03
+crythiasonce focus is blur, the item is fixed..22:04
@rizenbecause they seem to be working against each other22:04
@rizenand actually, let me take a step back for a second22:04
@rizeneven if i could make this work22:04
@rizeni think this is a horrible idea22:04
@rizenbecause no matter what22:04
@rizenyou're always going to have some part of your page covered by the admin bar22:04
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@rizenit's annoying22:04
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+crythiasyes, but if you work in photoshop, you have the same issue, sometimes.22:05
perlmonkey2What happens if you drag/drop something with position:fixed attr?22:05
@rizenhaving the admin bar cover any part of the content is unacceptable22:05
SDuensinPop the sucker open in another browser window.22:05
perlmonkey2What's the complaint with the current set up?22:06
@rizenif you use a fixed position element in your site22:06
@rizenit doesn't get pushed over with the rest of your content22:06
@rizenwhen the admin bar is turned on22:06
@rizenthat's the complaint22:07
@rizenor at least cry's complaint22:07
@rizenanother user has a complaint that the whole follow as you drag thing slows down their computer22:07
+crythiasAs long as the admin bar is not full page, it doesn't matter to me where the admin bar is as long as it's not where I'm needing to work.22:07
SDuensinI like the frame idea.  Or make it a toggle so it's framed or in a new floating window.  That's easy enough - just change the target.22:07
perlmonkey2I don't use position:fixed so I like it how it is :022:08
@rizenSD when you're the one writing it, you can make it do two different things22:08
@rizenwhile i'm the one writing it, it's going to work just one way22:08
SDuensinWhen I write it, it'll be on it's own desktop.  :-P22:08
@rizenwhen it's on it's own desktop, you won't need the admin bar22:09
@rizencry, thank you, but as i said, covering any part of the content is unacceptable22:11
SDuensincrythias, ok, that is kinda cool.22:11
+crythiaswhy is that more unacceptable than not being able to accurately edit a web page?22:11
SDuensinI GOT IT!   Command line!  No more bar!  "INSERT ARTICLE INTO PAGE1"22:12
@rizenthe solution i gave about frames fixes both problems22:12
+crythiaswell, I don't have necessarily an issue about frames.22:12
@rizenand it's more acceptable because you're not the only person in the world that uses webgui22:12
@rizenthere are a lot of users out there who would be confused by the admin bar floating, and even more that would be angry about their content being covered up by it22:13
+crythiasexcept that it's only covering up when admin is on. a lot of admin on things break normal user experience.22:13
@rizenthis IS the user experience22:14
@rizenthe web page in normal viewing mode is irrelevant22:14
@rizenyou're forgetting that MY user is the content manager22:14
@rizenand that means that admin mode22:14
@rizenis my user experience22:14
+crythiasSDuensin: Thanks22:18
+crythiasadding stuff that isn't in the final product is ok, though?22:19
@rizenare you talking to me?22:19
+crythiasyes, sorry. 22:19
@rizenadding stuff where?22:19
+crythiasbetween assets.22:20
@rizenwhy do i always feel lost talking to you. can you please make a complete statement and not assume any prior conversation?22:20
+crythiasIf the admin bar can roll-up, be transparent, or hidden, then it's still unacceptable at any time to cover content?22:21
@rizenyes, because in order to use it, you're going to have to unroll, or otherwise make it visible again...and doing that adds an extra click22:23
+crythiasor mouseover?22:23
@rizencry, it's still covering the content22:24
@rizenget it through your head, it's unacceptable...when i say that, i mean it, and i mean that you can't change my mind on it22:24
+crythiasbut it's not any more obtrusive than the (x)(edit)(copy) buttons.22:24
@rizenyes it is, because those buttons don't COVER content22:24
@rizenthe COVER part is the part i don't like22:24
@rizeni don't care about dragging scrolling invisibility whatever22:25
@rizeni care about COVERING22:25
@rizenand COVERING is unacceptable22:25
@rizenconversation over22:25
SDuensinSo, rizen, you'd rather it didn't cover anything?22:26
* SDuensin ducks22:26
+crythiasThe frames shrink the workable area.22:26
pjesican't the adminbar be horizontal at the top?22:49
+crythiasextra clicks to get to new content22:49
+crythiasplus downward lists cover existing content22:50
@rizenand most importantly, that doesn't solve either of the two problems that we're trying to solve22:50
@rizenwhere it is, and what it's shaped like are irrelevant22:51
+crythiasPlease remind me the two problems?22:51
@rizen1) if you used fixed position items on your site, the current admin bar doesn't shift them over, but it does shift over all other content, which then causes a defect in the site22:54
@rizen2) having the admin bar scroll with the page in the manner that it does now causes the browser to be slow, sluggish, etc22:55
+crythiasand I remember at one time the admin bar scrolled out from left, correct?22:56
@rizenyes it did, and people hated it22:57
@rizen1) it covered their content22:57
@rizen2) it slowed down their computer22:57
@rizen3) sometimes they had a hard time clicking on it while it was moving22:58
+crythiasI agree with that.22:58
+crythiasI'd understand that *that* covering of content was unacceptable for the fact that you couldn't do anything at all with content under the admin bar, because the admin bar was in a fixed position.22:59
@rizeni have 2 viable ways to fix the above two remaining problems23:00
@rizen1) the frames way that i mentioned23:00
@rizen2) move the admin bar to the right side of the screen23:00
@rizenmost people position stuff from the left23:00
@rizenwhen they use fixed positions23:00
@rizenso that would solve the problem 99% of the time23:01
@rizenhowever, it causes 2 other problems23:01
@rizen1) people are already used to it being on the left23:01
@rizen2) the reason it's on the left instead of the right is because when i put it on the right, people accidentally clicked on the admin bar when they were trying to scroll23:01
@rizentherefore, i think moving it to the right just adds more problems, and therefore is not a viable solution23:02
+crythiaswhich the frames does make absolute positioning work correctly.23:02
@rizenwhich thusly brings us back to frames23:02
@rizenyup, cuz i'm not mucking with their html/css at all23:02
@rizeni'm just putting it inside a frame23:03
+crythiasI like frames for the purposes stated.23:03
@rizenthe only problem with frames is that i personally hate frames23:03
@rizenbut that's my bias23:03
@rizenand i guess i'll have to get over it23:03
@rizenunless someone comes up with something else23:03
+crythiasare any concerns about cross-site scripting vulnerability related to frames use in this context?23:03
+crythias(I hate frames, too, but I seem to see not many other options)23:04
+crythiass/are any/are there any/23:05
+perlDreamerI know i'm coming in late,but I have a suggestion.23:06
+perlDreamerWhy not have give the Admin Bar its own z-axis control and map it to a bindkey23:06
+perlDreamerSay, F223:07
+perlDreamerF2, Admin bar on top of content23:07
+crythiasbecause it covers content23:07
+perlDreamerF2, Admin bar on bottom of content23:07
+perlDreamerkind of like the Admin console23:07
+perlDreameronly with a bindkey23:07
SDuensinBindkeys work everywhere?23:07
@vaydeI dunno, seeing an actual useful and non-sucky use of frames would be somewhat refreshing23:08
+perlDreamerby definition, frames suck and are non-useful23:08
+crythiaswell, if you frame it that way...23:08
@rizencry, your drag thing fixed the slowness problem23:10
@rizeni can get rid of my javascript to scroll the admin bar23:10
@rizeni didn't know about position:fixed!important;23:10
@rizenwhen i wrote the admin bar23:10
@rizenso i've been using javascript to float it23:10
@rizenor to slide it down the screen when you scroll23:11
@rizenso cutting out that code fixes the slowness problem that was reported23:11
@rizenso now we just need to fix the fixed elements problem23:11
@rizenwhich, unfortunately still comes back to frames23:11
+crythiaswell, the draggable fixed div thing didn't seem to have the scroll-bounce problem that similar solutions I've seen had.23:12
+crythiasthat is, one scrolls down, the hover div goes off, then bounces back into place when the scroll stops.23:13
@rizenyeah, that's exactly what the problem is with the admin bar currently23:13
@rizenwhich causes slowdown on slower computers23:13
@preactiondisplay: fixed; is supposed to work on IE723:13
@rizenpreaction, do you have ie7?23:14
@preactioner.. position: fixed23:14
* SDuensin wishes IE7 had CSS "fixed".23:14
@rizeni've just made the change on plainblack.com23:14
@rizencould you test it 23:14
@rizenand make sure it's working23:14
@rizeni'll test ie623:14
@preactionit doesn't work on ie6, i know that23:14
+crythiasdoes this make sense? http://xullicious.blogspot.com/2006/02/smooth-positionfixed-in-ie.html23:15
@preactionworks in IE723:16
@rizenso the admin bar moves with the page fluidly?23:17
@preactionhttp://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-css#support-css2propsbasic-position <- list of CSS properties and their level of support23:17
@preaction it's fixed to the viewport, doesn't move at all23:18
@rizenyou're right, it doesn't work at all in ie623:20
@rizenand neither does crythias's suggested reading23:21
+crythiashowever, you can use IE6 if to run the javascript ... thing if only for IE6...23:21
@rizeni guess we need to stick with my crap ass javascript until we go to frames23:21
@rizeni think i can pretty quickly and easily do the frames thing for 7.4 if and when we ever start working on 7.423:22
@preactionuse a conditional comment to load the JS <!--[if IE6]> Load script here <[/endif]-->23:22
SDuensin<!--[if IE6]> Download Firefox <[/endif]-->23:22
@preactionbetter explanation of conditional comments: http://www.quirksmode.org/css/condcom.html23:23
@rizengiven the way it is written, that will take more effort than you might imagine, and it's not worth it considering i still have to rewrite it for 7.4 anyway23:24
@rizencuz the scrolling is only half of the problem23:24
@preactionbut if you can't use absolute/relative positions on the rest of the page, that's almost worse than the disease23:40
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@rizenyou rock23:58
@rizeni closed only 3 so far today23:58
@rizenall wre related23:58
+perlDreamerI was able to close the re-posted SQL Form bug (which needed the user to upgrade)23:58
+perlDreamerand the wiki link one ignoring the gateway url23:59
--- Day changed Wed May 02 2007
+perlDreamerrizen: we can close another easy one if you'll have vrby finish this up: http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/assetproxy-macro-in-checkout#pClyXEnr3-nxLP0GV-dUmA00:00
+perlDreamerI'm going to tackle mlamar's dataform bug next00:01
+perlDreamerI'm going to be pretty busy during the official Bug Day, so I though I'd kick in when I can00:01
@rizeni've thrown it at him00:01
cap10morgancan you ask a revision object who created that revision in the API?00:06
cap10morgani can't figure it out based on the docs00:06
+perlDreamerIn the assetVersionTag table, see the committedBy field00:08
@rizendo you have a version tag object, or the asset object?00:08
cap10morganversion tag object00:08
@rizenwill return the userId00:10
@rizenwhich you can then feed into WebGUI::User->new($session, $id);00:10
@rizenyou can also do createdBy00:10
@rizenif you want who created the tag00:10
cap10morgangroovy, that did the trick00:11
cap10morganthanks rizen00:11
cap10morganafter you call $asset->update($properties); do you have to call $asset->commit(); ?00:13
cap10morgan(assuming you want to commit any version tags you're creating)00:13
cap10morganok, cool00:14
@rizenupdate updates an existing revision00:14
@rizenso it's already committed00:14
@rizenor not00:14
@rizenbut either way00:14
@rizenyou only need to commit00:14
@rizenafter doing00:14
@rizenor addRevision00:14
cap10morganout of curiosity, why do the docs recommend update over addRevision for API programmers? just because you don't have to mess w/ committing?00:15
@rizenin what way do they recommend one way over the other?00:16
cap10morganunder addRevision, it says, "Note that programmers should almost never call this method directly, but rather use the update() method instead."00:17
cap10morganin AssetVersioning.html00:17
@rizenthat language is rather strong00:18
@rizenin general, update() is the right thing to call unless you actually want a new revision00:18
@rizenmost of the time you're modifying something in processPropertiesFromFormPost() or something like that00:18
+perlDreamerrizen: I just added some POD to WebGUI::VersionTag.pm with a short list of properties for ->get.00:19
@rizenin that case, you're already working on a new revision00:19
@rizenso you just want to update that00:19
cap10morganok, gotcha00:19
@rizenrather than adding yet another new rev00:19
+perlDreamerCan you give it a quick once over00:19
+perlDreamerI want to be sure my locking note is correct00:19
+perlDreamerabout Asset locking vs version tag locking00:19
@rizenthat is true00:20
@rizenversion tags are locked waiting for approval00:20
@rizenso they should not be edited during that time00:20
@rizenit's just that assets and version tags are locked for different reasons00:20
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+perlDreamerdang it00:36
+perlDreamerIf she comes back, someone needs to tell her that her bug has already been fixed.00:36
+perlDreamerIt's the graphcs/CS bug00:36
+perlDreamerIt's only on the bug board about 3 times.00:36
@rizendid you close all of them?00:39
+perlDreamerI didn't fix the original.00:40
@rizenbut it is fixed, right?00:40
+perlDreamerI'm like 95% positive they're all the same bug, but without testing I don't want to close the reports.00:41
@rizenok then00:43
+perlDreamerI would test the file upload stuff, but my browser doesn't do file upload in wG 7.  (Mozilla 1.4)00:45
@rizeni can't believe you haven't found a way to sneak in a new browser yet00:47
+perlDreamerWe looked into compiling one, but Gtk2 doesn't like Solaris 800:47
@rizencan't even get opera for solaris?00:48
+perlDreamerLet me close another bug, then I'll look00:48
+perlDreamerrizen: you're a genius01:20
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@rizenopera works?01:20
@rizenwahoo...now you have a modern browser01:20
+perlDreamerThe only problem is that it doesn't like green01:20
@rizenafter all these years01:20
+perlDreamerOn the PB support page, the recent posts column01:21
+perlDreamerthe upgrade/install help forum posts are green normally?01:21
+perlDreamerNot in opera01:22
+perlDreamerthey're yellow01:22
+perlDreamerSunset's site is green, but in opera they're brown01:22
+perlDreamerIt must think my church is crap01:22
+perlDreamerVile, unholy modern browser!01:22
@rizenmaybe it's not opera01:23
@rizenmaybe your monitor is f*cked01:23
+perlDreamerNo, I can see green in mozilla01:30
+perlDreamerAnd also blue01:31
+perlDreamerbut not coincident with yellow01:31
@rizenoh well. at least now you can test stuff01:31
@rizeni was hoping you'd be able to just replace your browser01:31
@rizenguess that was hoping for too much01:31
+perlDreamerI can live without green01:31
+perlDreamerIt may also have a Flash plug-in01:32
@rizenyou can't do flash right now either?01:32
+perlDreamerno flash01:32
+perlDreamerno bit torren01:32
+perlDreamerno mp301:32
@rizencrap ass01:32
+perlDreamerno video or audio of any types01:32
+perlDreamerpoor javascript and CSS01:32
@rizenhave you tried vlc?01:33
@rizenthat compiles pretty much everywhere01:33
@rizenand will give you full audio/video capabilities01:33
+perlDreamerDoes it come with codecs?01:33
@rizenall codecs included01:34
@rizenyou don't need to go get them01:34
@rizeneven has codecs for most msft formats01:34
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@rizenok..well i gotta go01:38
@rizeni might be back on later tonight01:38
@rizenoh and opera should have bittorrent built in01:38
ckotilis deactivating an account and deleting an account considered the same as far these workflow triggers go?01:52
@preactioni would think no01:53
ckotilwe could have a workflow trigger for each, deactivation and deletion of user accounts 01:53
@preactioncould deactivation be the same as updating the user? if the new user properties are passed into the activity, you can test to see if the status is being changed01:55
ckotilthat makes sense.02:00
ckotili need to figure out what sub is called when an existing user account is saved by an admin02:05
+perlDreamerinside Operation/User.pm02:06
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+perlDreamerThat one is actually just a clean-up02:10
@vaydepreaction, got a date conundrum for you02:19
@preactionooh, i LOVE those02:19
@vaydebeen working on this one02:19
@vaydeand I got it narrowed down to a specific culprit02:20
@vaydethe question now is how to fix it02:20
@vaydeIt's breaking because it doesn't like doing datetime->setToEpoch on mysql's null date value 0000-00-0002:20
@vaydeIf we test for that value and avoid the method call, the date gets interpreted as 1969-12-3102:21
@vaydeIf I undef it the date gets interpreted as today02:21
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@vaydeneither one is particularly attractive02:21
@vaydewe need a way to preserve the null value as a null, not a specific epoch date02:22
@preactionwhy does undef get interpreted as today?02:22
@preactionin the SQLForm itself as the default value?02:22
@vaydeI dunno.  That's what is happening02:22
+perlDreamerMost of the DateTime calls default to today if no epoch is passed02:22
+perlDreameractually, it's time(), not today02:22
@vaydethat's what I think is happening02:22
@vaydePD and I were kicking this one around, and I think we need to be able to handle a null value here02:23
@vaydePersonally, I use null dates in my databases in a couple contexts02:23
@vaydewhile that might not be a wonderful thing, the last thing we can have happen is have what was a null get written to some arbitrary date02:24
@preactionbut 0000-00-00 isn't null, iirc mysql allows null in those fields02:24
@vaydenull in mysql gets stored as 0000-00-0002:24
@vaydenull in a date field anyway02:24
+perlDreamerIs assetIndex the table used by search?02:28
@preactionwait, is SQLForm using the WebGUI::Form::DateTime elements?02:28
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@vaydeIt's building dynamically02:29
@vaydein this case it's using WebGUI::Form::Date02:29
@vaydebut it's _getFieldValue that's breaking02:30
@preactionyou can give them the mysql dates, you don't need to setToEpoch02:30
@vaydeit still gets converted to epoch02:30
@vaydemysql 0000-00-00 concerts to 1969-123102:30
@vaydeer 1969-12-3102:30
@preactioni think it might be prudent (since you can't have a negative epoch time) to have setToEpoch return anything before 1970 as 0. what do you think?02:33
+SuckyMcSuckertonmy dad might not like to be set to 002:33
@vaydeyou can't have negative epoch?02:33
@preactioneh, never tried it02:34
@preactionso SQLForm is storing date/time in mysql date/time fields (not bigint), but it's changing it to epoch times... why?02:34
@vaydeno, it's only storing them in mysql date fields if thats what the underlying table has in it02:35
@vaydeIt's changing ti to epoch if the field type is date or datetime02:35
@preactioni wonder why the SQLForm doesn't use backticks to bypass those reserved words, or DBI->quote_identifier02:36
@vaydewhy it appears to be converting it even if I tell it not to is another question02:36
+perlDreamerIsn't that what WebGUI::Form does?02:36
@preactionWebGUI::Form::Date/Time fields don't convert to epoch IF you give it a value or a defaultValue that is using the mysql format02:36
@preactionthat might be a problem02:37
+perlDreamergotta head home.  See y'all later.02:37
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@vaydethis one is definitely a conundrum02:38
@preactionvayde: what if you trap the call to DateTime and if it fails return 0 or undef or something? i think it might be more important to be able to edit the record without worrying what we display if we have something we can't parse02:45
@preactionbut i'd run it by JT, definately02:45
@vaydeyeah, I could do that, but if it displays somethign wierd by default then, and you save the record, you're gonna save the wierd value02:46
@preactionthe only way i can see running into that is if someone adds a date field after there's already data in the database02:46
@vaydeand whether it's time()  or 1669-12-31, its still definitely not the null you had before02:46
@vaydeyep.  if you import an existing table into a SQLForm02:47
@preactionusing the wg date/time elements it's impossible to get a null value02:47
@vaydeand it has date fields02:47
@vaydeand those date fields have nulls02:47
@preactionalternatively, we could add a null checkbox as an option to the form control that (for now) only the SQLForm uses02:48
@vaydeIt might be a rare case, but in any event, it's not failing in a useful way.02:48
@vaydeNo matter what, I think it comes down to  a policy decision by JT02:48
+Radix_morning folks02:50
@preactioni'd put in my vote for the null checkbox, as you said there are times when NULL can be informative02:51
* Radix_ heads off to work.02:56
@vaydeone way or another, we have to preserve the data.  It could just fail more descriptively, but it can't change the data.  That's just asking for trouble02:57
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@preactionif it fails like it's doing, though, you can't fix the data.03:06
@vayderight, but if it pulls up normally, it's changing the data03:08
@vaydepersonally, I'd rather be forced to go in by hand and edit the record rather than have wG change it to something, but honestly both alternatives are unacceptable03:12
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+SuckyMcSuckertondiscovery channel ninja 06:07
+SuckyMcSuckertonon discovery channel us now ... 06:11
+SuckyMcSuckertondebunking ninja myths.06:11
+Radix-wrkAhh.. should've told vayde before he left.. he'd have loved to have seen that I'm sure06:11
+Radix-wrkWhy the new name Gerald?06:12
+SuckyMcSuckertonjt blessed my appellation.06:12
+SuckyMcSuckertonsee 18:4506:13
+Radix-wrkheh.. rizen hates my RFE's too06:14
+SuckyMcSuckertonit's a good read, but... http://www.gwy2.org/uploads/drag.html06:16
+Radix-wrkdragable div - nice06:17
+SuckyMcSuckertonnot only draggable, but fixed on scroll06:18
+Radix-wrkAhh.. true, didn't try scrolling06:18
+Radix-wrkthis what you were conceiving for the admin bar?06:18
+Radix-wrklooks good to me06:19
+SuckyMcSuckerton"Covers content"=BAD06:19
+SuckyMcSuckertonalthough, moveable covering content isn't so bad...06:19
+Radix-wrkthe zenlike theme I converted had a problem with the admin bar - but it was one where half the admin bar was covered up, not the other way around06:19
+Radix-wrkno idea how to fix it so I left it as is in the theme, can scroll down the page to get to the rest of the admin bar06:20
+SuckyMcSuckertonI wonder ...06:21
+SuckyMcSuckertonI spose I could rejiggerthe admin bar06:21
@rizenckotil delete and deactivate should be different workflows06:42
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sstanvirhow r u doing08:40
@rizenjust dandy08:40
@rizenand you?08:40
sstanvirso so,thnx08:40
sstanvirwhat is "dandy" ;) ?08:40
@rizenit's another word for "fine" or "good"08:41
sstanviri c 08:41
sstanviri have one issue08:41
sstanvircan I ga?08:43
@rizenwhat is ga?08:43
sstanvir"go ahead"08:43
@rizenyou can ask, but that doesn't mean i'll have an answer for you08:43
sstanviri know08:43
sstanvirthat's why asking... if u r in the mood08:44
@rizenmake it quick, i'm going to bed soon08:44
sstanvirah, ok08:44
sstanvirin my WebGUI.. ..08:44
sstanviri created some assets .08:45
sstanvirit shows the message several times "no menus defined" when I browse through the pages08:45
sstanviri mean everytime one page opens (associated with the created asset)08:45
sstanviri have no idea why it shows the message08:46
@rizenare you using the default webgui 7 style?08:46
sstanviri changed to style03 08:46
sstanvirstyle template and printable style => style0308:47
@rizenthe coolmenus nav is the thing that generates that message08:47
@rizenit only generates that message when either it doesn't have any pages to display in the nav08:47
@rizenor when there is some corruption in the data being displayed (maybe quotes or half quotes or carriage returns in the page titles)08:48
@rizenthat's as good of information as i can give you without looking at your pages directly08:48
@rizenwhich i'm not going to do 08:48
sstanvirafter displaying the error message it's displaying the page08:49
@rizenit's only the nav that's broken, not the page08:49
sstanviri didnt get your point completely.. which part is the nav ?08:49
@rizennav = navigation08:50
@rizenthere is a navigation asset in the style08:50
@rizenthat's as much help as i can give you08:50
sstanvirok, thanks a lot08:51
sstanviri appreciate your help..08:52
@rizenit's not that i don't want to help you further08:52
@rizenbut i'm tired08:52
@rizenand you have to understand that i'm in the business of charging for support08:52
@rizenand you're welcome08:53
@rizennow that you know where to look, perhaps someone else on here can help you further, or maybe out on the public boards08:53
sstanvirit means something like "thank you".. "good job"... etc..08:54
sstanvir(japanese tradition)08:55
@rizeni see08:55
@rizenwe'll you're quite welcome08:55
sstanvirso, take rest, bye for now08:55
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xootomis anyone using e-commerce in webgui?14:10
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+Radix_not me15:29
xootomanyone know if it's possible to change the $ to ?15:47
+BugSlasherMurraythat's probably in the templates15:47
xootomi thought that but can only find it when it relates to an additional price15:47
+BugSlasherMurraywhat templaets have you looked at15:48
xootomfor event management, display, checkout, manage/view purchases, search15:49
xootomand through the language files15:49
+BugSlasherMurraydid you also checked out the product macro templates?15:49
xootomno, only default product template15:52
+BugSlasherMurraywhere do you see the $ sign?15:52
+BugSlasherMurrayusing the Product macro15:53
+BugSlasherMurrayin the shoppingcart?15:53
+BugSlasherMurrayduring checkout?15:53
xootomon the choose a badge from the list bit15:54
xootomand browse events15:54
+BugSlasherMurraythat's in the eventsmanagement system right?15:54
+BugSlasherMurrayit's probably in there15:55
+BugSlasherMurraybut i have never used it15:55
+BugSlasherMurrayso i'm not sure15:55
xootomthats what ive been looking through, cant find it though15:55
+BugSlasherMurraybetter wait till the PB people are awake15:55
+BugSlasherMurraythey can prolly help you15:55
xootomok thanks :)15:57
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@rizenhowdy folks16:24
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+perlDreameroy, it's early16:25
@rizendidn't expect you at all today16:25
+perlDreamerI'll probably always be IRC'able, but may not have much bandwidth for bug fixing16:25
+perlDreamerBut I did read some commits, and I have a question for BugSlasherMurray16:26
+perlDreamerWhat happens to the search index if someone pastes a branch/tree of assets?16:26
+BugSlasherMurrayi guess that's a bug too16:27
+BugSlasherMurrayi'll check it out16:27
+BugSlasherMurrayand fix it16:27
xootomanyone know why when searching forums, the list of items returned contains repeated text, e.g. "Re: Purchase Files for Download (Commerce) Re: Purchase Files for Download (Commerce) rfe request for enhancement purchase files for download commerce re purchase files for download commerce"16:28
xootomis it grepping all the lines that include the keyword16:29
xootomwould be nicer if it just showed the first paragraph16:29
@rizenis xootom, today is the great webgui bugfix day16:30
@rizentherefore, if it's not related to a bug 16:30
@rizenplease keep the chatter down16:30
xootommy apologies, the channel title has been the same for the last few days16:33
+BugSlasherMurraythis only applies to the asset being pasted16:33
+BugSlasherMurrayhowever not to its children16:33
+BugSlasherMurrayi could do a indexContent on all descendats of the asset16:34
+perlDreamerand it doesn't remove the original data from the searchIndex, either, so you should get two hits.16:34
+BugSlasherMurraybut wouldn;t that be very slow16:34
+BugSlasherMurraywhy wouldn't it remove the existing data?16:35
+BugSlasherMurrayit just overwrites it16:35
+BugSlasherMurrayupdte .. where assetId = ...16:35
+perlDreameroh, yes.  Sorry 'bout that.16:36
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@rizenbugslashermurray, sorry i was doing something else16:46
@rizenwas that conversation for me or for pd16:46
+BugSlasherMurrayfor you16:46
@rizenwhat bug report is this related to?16:48
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@rizenok, yes you should update all the children16:54
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@rizenif it turns out to be slow16:54
@rizenthen we'll add a trigger, and a special workflow16:54
@rizento index it in the background16:55
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+perlDreamerrizen: what version of HTML::Template is running on pb.com?16:55
@rizeni don't know...but that's what i was going to look at next16:55
@rizeni'm just getting questioned to death so i'm not able to do anything16:56
@rizenbugslasher, as far as why it wouldn't already remove/overwite existing data, i'm not sure16:56
@rizenit should16:56
+perlDreamerthat was my bad, rizen.  It will remove the content from assetIndex.16:57
@rizencrap...pb is on the latest version17:03
@rizennow checking demo site17:04
+perlDreamerMy dev site is running 2.817:04
@rizenok, upgrading demo site to see if that makes the difference17:04
@rizenthat's it17:06
@rizenno longer works on demo site17:06
@vaydeawe, shucks17:11
+perlDreamerperlbot: karma vayde17:12
perlbotvayde doesn't have any karma17:12
+perlDreamerperlbot: ++vayde17:13
+perlDreamerperlbot: karma vayde17:13
perlbotvayde doesn't have any karma17:13
@vaydeI have trancended the wheel of samsara17:13
+perlDreamerperlbot: thou suckest17:13
+perlDreamerElectrical Engineers meditate to "Ohmslaw"17:14
* vayde is more familiar with Murphy's law17:14
@vaydeand I've always liked Paul's law:  You can't fall off the floor.17:15
@vaydePD, you know about Coles' law?17:15
+perlDreamerno, but I'm pondering Paul's law with regard to apartment buildings and earthquakes17:16
@vaydeColes' law is all about thinly sliced cabbage17:16
* perlDreamer recommends that $vayde->stick($dayJob)17:17
+perlDreamerEasy for you to do, vayde.  You have lots of mats on the floor.17:19
@vaydeand lots of pointed sticks to _convince_ people that my jokes are funny17:20
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+BugSlasherMurraywher does this file do the actual cleaup of the cache?17:28
@preactionsweet zombie jesus there are 27 people here17:28
+BugSlasherMurrayi'm asking b/c of the rss cache bug17:28
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@rizen                $size = $cache->getNamespaceSize($expiresModifier);17:28
@rizenthe getNamespaceSize method cleans up expired content17:29
+BugSlasherMurrayic now17:29
+BugSlasherMurrayshould the rss cache be cleaned in that activity too17:30
+BugSlasherMurrayor should it get it's own activity?17:30
@rizeni'm conflicted on that...been thinking about it for a while17:30
@rizenRSS is shared by other sites17:30
@rizenas is URL17:30
@rizenand a few other things17:31
@rizenwhat do you think?17:31
@rizenmethinks that there should probably be a new one that cleans up all the auxillary stuff17:31
@rizenthat way it doesn't get cleaned up 50 times if you have 50 sites on your box17:31
@preactionkeep a file in the cache that has the last time it was cleaned, or use the last modified date from the file system?17:31
+BugSlasherMurraywhat's the real difference?17:31
+BugSlasherMurraytehy all have an expiration date right?17:32
+BugSlasherMurrayoh ok17:32
@rizenthe difference is that it will have to traverse the filesystem 50 times, which is slow17:32
+BugSlasherMurraybut how do you setup a workflow for a host of zites17:32
+BugSlasherMurrayone workflow that is17:32
@rizenoh...good point17:33
@rizenin that case....make it part of the main worklfow17:33
+BugSlasherMurraythe file being?17:33
+BugSlasherMurraybut it will be executed 50 times then17:34
@rizenyeah, but there's no way around it17:34
@rizenat least it will run faster by the 50th time17:35
+BugSlasherMurrayi figured so much17:35
+BugSlasherMurrayyou could say that the more sites you put on a box the faster it will run on average17:35
* BugSlasherMurray is thinking of becomming a salesman =)17:35
@rizenBugSlasherMurray could sell ice cubes to an eskimo17:36
+BugSlasherMurraythey will stay frozen even longer if eskimos' buy them17:36
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@preactionis this a bug? http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/wrong-permissions -- seems more like a personal preference that can be fixed with a couple calls to Edit Branch17:38
+perlDreamerBSMcGirk: did you find the Template bug?  I've been poking around and think I've got it if you don't.17:38
cap10morganI'm thinking I'll tackle this one: http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/auto-generated-synopsis-not-re-generated-after-edit17:39
@BugSlasherMcGirki've been poking around, but i can't figure it out17:39
@BugSlasherMcGirkcap...when you start working on one, you should reply to it saying so17:39
+perlDreamerIt's inside _getTemplateVars17:39
cap10morgando you all agree that that probably requires adding a flag in the db that says whether or not a synopsis was auto-generated?17:39
@BugSlasherMcGirkand if you stop, then do the same17:39
+perlDreamerDo you want me to run with it?17:39
cap10morganBSMG: will do17:39
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@BugSlasherMcGirkcap: no17:40
@BugSlasherMcGirkinstead, make it autogenerate every time17:40
@BugSlasherMcGirkunless it gets submitted through the form17:40
@BugSlasherMcGirkthat's how it's supposed to have worked all along17:40
@BugSlasherMcGirkso unless $session->form->param("synopsis") then autogen17:41
SDuensinGood morning17:41
emiGood Evening :-D17:42
cap10morganBSMG: ok17:42
cap10morganthe svn instructions on the site for checking out head don't seem to work17:43
@preactioncap10morgan: svn co https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI <- i think that's the new url17:43
cap10morgancool, thanks17:44
@khennyeah, that's it17:44
@vaydeyeah, the instructions on the pb site need to be updated17:44
@preactioni'll fix it17:44
@khennlog it as a bug!  Get ur kara17:44
+perlDreamerBugSlasherMcGirk: I've got a fix for the Help bug.17:45
@khennperlDreamer, do you have the day off today?17:45
cap10morgani can't just commit my fix back to the repo, can i?17:45
@BugSlasherMcGirkpd: that's awesome17:46
+perlDreamerkhenn: no.  Given a choice between perl hacking and documentation for a design review...17:46
@BugSlasherMcGirkcap: i'll give you access for today17:46
+perlDreamer--bug by vrby17:46
cap10morganBSMG: cool, thanks17:47
@BugSlasherMcGirkcap, what's your email addy?17:47
@khennI dunno, documentation for a design review sounds like a good time17:48
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+BugSlasherMurrayin what workflow is CleanFileCache executed?17:49
@BugSlasherMcGirkcap10morgan, what is your email addy?17:49
@vaydepreaction, you the calendar man, with the Calendar Events Disappearing bug, the disappearing events are being wholly purged from the db.  That ring any bells?17:51
@preactiongood lord that should probably not be happening17:51
@preactionthat's with the recurring events, no/17:51
@vaydeyeah, if a recurring event happens across a span where there's already an event, 17:52
@vaydethe previous event gets completely purged17:52
@vaydenot just trashed... gone17:52
+perlDreamerbug status: 35 open WebGUI bugs, 2 7.4 bugs, 6 WRE bugs17:53
@preactionvayde: oh god. okay. it should only be purging events with the same recurId. however i think what's happening is that the first time, the recurId is NULL, and it's still doing the purge (when it shouldn't)17:54
@BugSlasherMcGirkgood stats to have pdd17:54
@BugSlasherMcGirkor pd17:54
@preactionvayde: that should get you started though17:54
+perlDreamer13 bugs closed for 7.3.16 so far.17:55
@vaydepreaction:  thanks man.  I figured you might know the ballpark17:55
+perlDreamerpreaction is the Calendar Man.17:55
+BugSlasherMurraybugslashermcgirk:  my $rssCache = WebGUI::Cache::FileCache->new($self->session, undef, 'RSS'); would give me the RSS cache object right?17:55
+perlDreamerIt's similar to the Piano man, but Billy Joel already has that title.17:55
@vaydeand the date man, but I mean that in an entirely hetero way17:55
@BugSlasherMcGirkbsm: yup17:57
+perlDreameryung forgot to close a bug that he committed yesterday.17:59
+perlDreamerso make that 34/2/617:59
@vaydeone more down.17:59
+perlDreamerI'd like to tackle the bobbob's wiki title bug.  Could someone please make me a package of PB's wiki?18:01
@BugSlasherMcGirki'm doing it18:01
@BugSlasherMcGirkit says so right in the bug18:01
+perlDreamersorry, I need to refresh more often.18:01
@vaydeYeah, we've been meaning to say something to you...18:02
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+BugSlasherMurraythe rss bug is fixed18:09
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+BugSlasherMurraygotta go now though18:09
+BugSlasherMurrayi'll have to electron microscope in some cellar from 18.00 till 22.0018:10
@BugSlasherMcGirkwe need you18:10
+BugSlasherMurrayI already fixed 7 bugs or so18:10
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@BugSlasherMcGirkand we need you to fix 34 more18:10
* vayde uses the jedi mind trick "You don't have to go"18:10
+BugSlasherMurrayI've done my share =)18:10
@BugSlasherMcGirkaccording to pd18:10
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* FeebleMindedMart says I don't have to go18:11
* vayde waves his hand "You want to stay and fix more bugs"18:11
+FeebleMindedMartYou want to stay and fix more bugs18:11
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@vaydenever hand the errorHandler an array.  The results are, interesting.18:22
@preactionnew SVN docs: https://www.plainblack.com/webguidev/docs/svn <- questions, comments?18:24
@vaydenicely done18:26
--- Log closed Wed May 02 18:29:07 2007
--- Log opened Fri May 04 06:37:18 2007
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xdangerrizen: Are you busy? can I ask a quick question?06:38
xdangerwhy $var->{"previous.url"} = $self->getUrl("func=previousThread") if (defined $previous); why not $var->{"previous.url"} = $previous->getUrl() if (defined $previous); in Thread.pm?06:40
xdangerat some point someone removed "my $previous = $self->getPreviousThread;" in favor of the $self->getUrl("func=previousThread"), but now that It's back, why use that "ugly" and not the direct url to the next/prev Thread...06:43
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xdangerthis: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm?rev1=1330;rev2=1331 is reversed by this: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm?rev1=4031;rev2=403206:49
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wgGuest13Anyone there? I can't find the lang packs...07:01
xdangeryou mean: http://i18n.webgui.org/07:05
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wgGuest13Thanks A LOT, xdanger! I was about to abandon WebGUI. It's great software but it costed a LOT to make it work under Debian and there is NO LINK from the main site to this one you have just given me...07:16
wgGuest13Thanks again.07:16
wgGuest13Sorry, but I found that most of the Spanish strings are untranslated, is this possible?07:20
xdangerMaybe not enough userbase to maintain the translation...07:21
wgGuest13Oops...! 07:26
wgGuest13I have to fill my comparison chart, and since cmsmatrix gives so many "greens" to WebGUI I thought that it had to be the best one!07:28
wgGuest13But -1 for the terrible installation process... and definitely can't think of any big CMS that doesn't have ONE Spanish translator!07:29
wgGuest13Of course, as you say...07:29
wgGuest13maybe not enough userbase.07:29
wgGuest13Thanks again!07:30
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SDuensinGood morning.15:44
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+MrHairgreaseI'm trying to figure out how to do the following16:34
SDuensinHi MrHairgrease 16:34
+MrHairgreaseI want to enable exportHtml in the SQLForm such that the complete table of records will be exported, but also make that clickable to the views of each record. These should of course get their own html file16:36
+MrHairgreaseI'm having trouble finding a hook to do that16:36
@rizenit can't be done16:36
@rizenthe export function is a 1:1 asset per page16:36
+MrHairgreaseif i could acces the path/file where the main page is being written 16:37
+MrHairgreasei think i can16:37
@rizenbut you can't16:37
@rizenat least not the way it's written right now16:37
@rizenthat's what i'm saying16:38
+MrHairgreasetoo bad16:38
@rizennot saying you couldn't change the exports system to support that16:39
+MrHairgreasei only need the pathWithFilename var to be passed to exportHtml_view16:40
+MrHairgreasefrom there on I can come up with my own paths16:40
+MrHairgreaseuse id->generate to make them unique16:40
+MrHairgreaseor just take the redcordIds16:41
+MrHairgreaseIs there a way to get the filename/path from an opened file handle?16:45
@rizenmaybe, but i don't know it if there is16:45
@rizeni'd think there's got to be a way though16:45
+MrHairgreasethe Filehandle docs don't mention it16:45
+MrHairgreaseit is not possible16:57
@rizencrythias, how is it that you are crythias and SuckyMcSuckerton?17:12
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+Radix_how is he both normal and sucky at the same time you mean? ;)17:20
+MrHairgreasethat's easy17:20
+MrHairgreasebut how are both voiced?17:20
@rizenthat too17:20
+Radix_accounts linked17:21
+Radix_I do the same with my home and work account17:21
+Radix_I just have the second alias linked to the first name so I get voice on both17:22
+MrHairgreasesound way to difficult for friday17:22
+Radix_I think preaction told me the command to do it, but do it once and voila17:22
+Radix_just need to have the two nicks registered that's all17:23
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@vaydeI've been dying to ask:  How do you guys switch your names?17:59
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+wellLikeThisuse /nick newNick17:59
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* vayde promises to use his new powers only for good18:00
pjesiwhy should one want to change his nick?18:05
ckotilto hide.18:08
+MrHairgreaseis there a reason WebGUI.pm is still at version 7.3.16 in svn18:10
+MrHairgreaseand there isn't a 7.3.17 section in the changelog yet?18:11
--- Log closed Fri May 04 18:11:20 2007
--- Log opened Fri May 04 18:21:23 2007
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--- Log closed Fri May 04 18:26:11 2007
--- Log opened Fri May 04 18:31:23 2007
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xdangerrizen: did you notice my message earlier?20:00
@preactiondidn't perlDreamer say he was building a javascript app for the TinyMCE that will allow for WYSIWYG template editing? or was that just an idea?20:13
@preactionsomething about grabbing the available template variables from the Help files20:17
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+crythiassorry, even, but yeah, home/work22:09
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+perlDreamerHail, hail! The gang's all here.23:34
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--- Log closed Sat May 05 00:10:00 2007
--- Log opened Sat May 05 00:32:07 2007
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cap10morganok, i've got that working. it was a pretty simple change to the post asset00:56
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cap10morgani'll post it as a contribution00:57
cap10morganif you make a change you'd like included in the next possible release, is it better to post it as a contribution or an RFE w/ an attachment?00:57
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SDuensinGood morning.16:08
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AMH_bobGood morning16:14
SDuensinAfternoon.  :-)16:15
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sneexGrrrr  ;-)16:16
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sneexI guess I can't do what I want it to do  lol16:18
sneexI have 500 or so sites I need to migrate from OpenCMS and I would like to use WebGUI -- the WebGUI faq doesn't say whether or not if that many sites would be supported within a single installation.  Anybody use WebGUI with that many before?16:20
SDuensinIt can do it.  Question is, can your server?16:21
sneexmy server is hosting Tomcat with 500 sites now -- I just cant stand java  \=16:22
sneexwould I need a separate config for each site ?16:22
SDuensinConfig files, yes.  But only one WebGUI install.16:23
sneexi just dont want 500 mod_perl processes going -- otherwise I would stick with java =(16:24
SDuensinNope.  They all run from one set of servers.16:25
sneexthanks, Imma go play with it some -- I might be back  =)16:26
pjesimigrate 500 sites, that might take some time :)16:27
sneexanything has got to be better than what Im doing now  lol16:27
* SDuensin sees a lot of work in sneex's future.16:31
AMH_bobwhat's the record on running multiple sites on one server? And who is the holder?16:32
sneexthe thing is - the content isn't managed by the cms -- it just makes it available for some minor edits -- most of the issue is access and viewing of multimedia, etc.16:33
sneexI would almost just use PHP and Dokuwiki  \=   almost16:34
+Radix_I'd say plainblack probably has the most multiple sites16:40
+Radix_I've heard their demo server has quite a few going at once16:40
SDuensinYea.  Try it out.  Create 500 demos.  :-)16:44
pjesiit is more about using them I think16:46
sneexi really am more interested in a managed web interface to access/view the multimedia files we host for clients, etc.  Less to a degree about making a site "editable" by clients.16:47
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pjesiis 7.3.16 working smoothly?17:53
@vaydeI haven't heard anything otherwise.17:54
@vaydeAre you having trouble?17:54
pjesino I am just preparing an upgrade :)17:55
pjesifrom 7.3.1217:55
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+perlDreamerpreaction: are you here?18:19
+perlDreamerHave you read the new Storage code for case insensitive filesystems?18:20
+perlDreamerThere's something about it I don't get.18:20
+perlDreamerIt takes a GUID, turns it into hex, and then stores it in a lookup table in the db.18:21
+perlDreamerI don't get why you can't just regenerate the hex each time18:21
+perlDreamerit would save a db lookup18:21
@preactionwhat about legacy storage locations based on GUID?18:22
+perlDreamerany ideas?18:22
+perlDreamerthey're already messed up.18:23
@preactionwas concluded they couldn't be fixed because of the overlap possibility, can't translate them18:23
@preactionso what storage locations are using GUIDs and what ones are using Hex?18:24
+perlDreamerit depends on the config settings now18:24
@preactionno, the answer to my question is the database table18:24
+perlDreamerI guess that does make sense.18:25
@preactiontechnically it doesn't have to store the hex, but (for now) there has to be some way to keep track of old, GUID storage folders, and new hex storage folders18:25
+perlDreamerDo you think that eventually all file locations will start using the hex?18:26
@preactionbut for each GUID there can only be one hex folder, no? so if that hex folder doesn't exist when ->get, try to get the GUID folder, no?18:26
@preactionhum. anyway18:27
+perlDreamerI would have thought that it would auto detect the OS, do a case check, then translate all GUIDs to hex as appropriate.18:28
+perlDreamerBut that would totally break packages across platforms.18:28
+perlDreamerIt may break them anyway...18:28
@preactioncouldn't auto-detect, the consensus was there is no reliable way to do it18:28
@preactionone windows is "WinNT", one is "Win32" one is "MSWin32" etc...18:29
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pjesiis the update script needed to move from 7.3.12 to .16?12:07
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AMH_bobhttp://www.plainblack.com/upgrading_webgui is a good starting point...15:07
AMH_bob@pjesi: http://www.plainblack.com/upgrading_webgui15:07
pjesiAMH_bob: yes but since I currently do not have access to root it is impossible to run the script15:11
AMH_bobauwie, that changes things... I wonder if upgrading is advisable...15:12
pjesiperhaps not15:13
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SDuensinGood morning.16:08
SDuensinHi pjesi 16:20
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pjesiSDuensin: how is your desktop idea going?16:54
SDuensinVery well, thanks!16:55
pjesigreat news!16:55
SDuensinI'm trying to get things packaged up and documented to push a new build out.16:55
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pjesiSDuensin: cool, are you going to publish it on pb.com?17:00
SDuensinWell, the desktop I've been working on isn't appropriate for wG.  However, I've been reading and thinking about one that would be.  Not had time to write any code for it though.17:01
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@preactionis the "Copy" clipboard action supposed to do a deep copy of an asset and all its children? or just the asset itself?19:22
pjesiI think it is supposed to be a deep copy but it doesnt always do that19:30
@preactioni think "Cut" does a deep copy, but "Copy" doesn't for some reason19:32
pjesiI don't remeber how I went around it though19:34
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* PedersenMJ waves.04:46
+Radix-wrkMorning PedersenMJ04:52
PedersenMJhow goes it?04:53
+Radix-wrknot too bad04:53
+Radix-wrkyourself? :)04:53
PedersenMJdoing okay. busy as a one armed paper hanger in a windstorm, though.04:54
+Radix-wrkHmm.. I like the new RFE changes - difficulty and karma so far added to all RFE's04:56
+Radix-wrkthis sucks tho:04:57
+Radix-wrkDifficulty: 3004:57
+Radix-wrkKarma So Far: 374204:57
+Radix-wrkKarma Rank: 124.73333004:57
* PedersenMJ has to admit to not even visiting pb in a while. Been frustrating with how much I've got to get done at work and at home.04:59
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SDuensinGood morning!15:50
SDuensinHey AMH_bob 16:09
AMH_bobHow are things?16:10
SDuensinSo far, so good.  Just getting started though.16:11
AMH_bobHaha, and I'm almost on my last coffee break! And the nightshifts are running really smooth (Knock on wood).16:12
@rizenradix is a complainer16:52
SDuensinHey rizen 16:56
@rizenhow goes it sd16:56
SDuensinPretty good.  You?16:57
@rizenpretty good, just very busy16:59
SDuensinI hear ya.  Working on a new release of ZKDesktop here.  Lots of loose ends to tie up.16:59
@rizengood luck with that...release time can be quite hecktic17:01
@rizengot a new release of webgui to put out today too17:01
* SDuensin needs to update to 7.3.16 yet!17:04
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@rizenhowdy perlmonkey217:40
@rizenhow's the new survey coming?17:41
perlmonkey2slow :(  June 1st I'll either have plenty of time to work on it as things wrap up, or I'll have all my time to work on it if I don't wrap things up 17:44
perlmonkey2on my job.17:44
perlmonkey2Not that bad in reality, but I'm working night and day to get this project wrapped up.  Actually if this week goes well, *my* part of the project will be mostly wrapped up and I can start doing something more fun (like your survey)17:47
@rizen*our* survey17:49
@rizenwe're a community17:49
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@rizenRadix_ you around?18:34
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rjacobseni am trying to use the ^Include("/this/file.html"); macro and for some reason i keep getting "INCLUDED FILE DOES NOT EXIST"....... is there a trick to this macro?23:20
@rizenare you using the full path to the file?23:21
@rizenand does your web server have the rights to read the file?23:21
rjacobsenwe placed the file in the /images folder in the webgui installation where we call images from and such23:21
rjacobsenso the actuall src directory is /images/docs/2.html23:22
rjacobsenand for some reason it is not seeing the file23:22
@rizennot relative to your web root23:25
@rizenrelative to your server root23:25
rjacobsenok so how do i figure the directory if i have it in the images folder?23:26
@rizenlike /data/domains/www.example.com/public/images/some/path/to/file.html23:26
@rizenis this a real folder or a webgui folder?23:26
@rizenreal folder being a folder on the server filesystem23:26
rjacobsenit is the main images folder of webgui that we use for web pages23:27
@rizenlet me try this again...do you access the folder through the webgui asset manager, or through an FTP account?23:27
rjacobsenthru ftp sorry23:28
rjacobsenit is web based23:28
@rizenthen you should be able to see the full path when you log in through ftp23:28
@rizenif you can't, then ask your hosting provider23:28
rjacobsenok here is our layout..... we have a main folder we use for all our hosted websites call common.... the images folder is inside this folder.... /data/domains/common/images/docs/2.html is the actual directory all the way to root...... 23:35
rjacobseni dont think there is any way to access this file from a browser23:35
@rizenyou don't need to access it from a browser23:36
@rizenthat's what Include is for23:36
@rizenput in the full path ^Include(/data/domains/common/images/docs/2.html);23:36
rjacobsenso how do i make this work?23:36
rjacobseni tried that23:36
rjacobsenand it still comes up with the INCLUDED FILE DOES NOT EXIST23:37
@rizenif that path is correct, and the permissions are set such that the web server can read the file and folders that lead up to it, then it will work23:37
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+Radix_rizen: wassup?01:53
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PedersenMJGood evening.05:13
PedersenMJHow's it going?05:19
+Radix-wrksame as yesterday :)05:20
* PedersenMJ is somewhat better, as I just got the care package from pb today :)05:21
+Radix-wrkAhh k.. cool05:21
+Radix-wrkmine will prolly take a while to get here I suspect ;)05:22
PedersenMJNah, I'm sure it's already on your back porch, awaiting you ;)05:23
+Radix-wrkoverseas delivery tho remember :)05:23
PedersenMJhence the ;)05:25
PedersenMJHonestly, I think you'll be lucky to get it within a week or two.05:25
PedersenMJGotta say, though, that JT came through on the Content Manager's Guide nicely. Looks good.05:25
@preactioncontent manager's guide was kristie05:26
@preaction(bopbop on IRC)05:26
+Radix-wrkOh?  you got a copy of that in your schwag bag?05:26
+Radix-wrkHmm.. I just ordered a copy for the office - will prolly get two copies now if that's the case :)05:27
PedersenMJActually, had JT take money out of winnings to order it.05:27
+Radix-wrkAhh k.. cool05:28
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SDuensinGood morning!16:18
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mawehi all. is there an easy way to remove parts of webgui from the installation so that they don't show up anywhere? i won't ever need the product stuff for example and would like to get rid of it, even in the admin interface.16:40
SDuensinHi mawe.  I don't know the answer to that one.  Hang out for about an hour and more people will be here.16:41
maweok, thanks!16:41
SDuensinAnytime.  :-)16:42
maweah... i see it's hardcoded in AdminConsole.pm. hm....16:43
xdangermawe: you can adjust the UI level, and remove assets in the config file...16:44
maweyes, that's for the "normal" users. but in the admin section all those things still show up.16:45
SDuensin"Normal users"?  You mean morons?16:48
mawe... no, normal as in "not admin" 16:50
+Radix_mawe: you can remove assets in your webgui config file17:01
maweRadix_: yes, i know. but that doesn't affect the admin menu17:01
mawei think i found a solution. i edit the admin menu template and filter out all entries i don't want17:01
+Radix_yeah, that'd work17:01
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perlmonkey2If anyone ever needs help with for Java to speak RPC::XML to Perl, just let me know.17:21
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cap10morganIt looks like MySQL 5.0.41 has a bug that affects WebGUI pretty badly03:36
cap10morganfrom my initial testing, it seems to not honor the binary flag on varchar fields03:36
cap10morganwhich obviously makes assetId's get screwed up03:36
cap10morganreverting to 5.0.37 fixed it03:37
cap10morganw/ no (apparent) data loss03:37
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SDuensinHi gang.05:00
+Radix-wrkrizen: you asked for me the other day?05:06
@rizenyeah, i wanted to know if you'd do some jail time for me05:07
@rizenjudge said he'd let me off if i could find some sucker...er good person to take the time for me05:07
+Radix-wrkAhh.. surprised you're not keen on it in the hope you could spend time with Paris Hilton.05:08
@rizeni would except that in the US men and women aren't jailed together05:08
@rizeni was asking you why you were complaining05:08
@rizenabout the new features on the RFE list05:08
+Radix-wrkI wasn't - I think the new RFE stuff is great :)05:09
+Radix-wrkI was just whinging about how high that particular RFE was because I wanted it ;)05:09
+Radix-wrkDifficulty of 3005:10
@rizensome things take more time05:10
@rizenif it's worth it05:10
@rizenand people want it05:10
@rizenit will still get enough karma05:10
@rizenthere are some things that have a difficulty of 100 or more05:10
+Radix-wrkHmm.. nice idea, not sure if it will work that way in practice tho05:11
+Radix-wrkWhat I suspect is that most ppl don't read through the pages and pages of RFE's and simply put their own separately05:11
@rizenwell at some point we'll run out of low level stuff to do05:11
@rizenthat's true05:12
@rizenhowever, there's nothing i can do about people being too lazy05:12
@rizenunless you have some remedy for that05:12
+Radix-wrkI don't know any way to improve that either really05:12
@rizenoh, and i'm about to add a feature that may help to some extent05:12
@rizeni'll be listing the top 100 karma whores05:13
@rizenthen you can contact those people and ask them to add their karma to your event05:13
@rizensorry, rfe, not event05:13
+Radix-wrkI'll probably be one of them atm actually ;)05:13
+Radix-wrkthanks to my community contest entries :)05:13
@rizeni think the top person has something like 14k karma05:13
@rizenbut yeah, you should be in the top 100 for sure05:14
+Radix-wrkI have 8k atm, and two entries in the style contest05:14
+Radix-wrkSo worse case scenario I get 2nd and 3rd and should get another 7.5k karma :)05:15
@rizensee...you have all the karma you need then to bump stuff to the top05:15
+Radix-wrkI know.. but I've already poured over 3k karma in that one and it's only up to 12405:16
@rizenit's all about how bad you want it05:17
@rizeni take it back05:19
@rizenthe highest has 21k05:19
@rizenmartin kamerbeek05:19
@rizencolin kuskie is next with 19k05:19
+Radix-wrkAhh.. good to see :)05:19
+Radix-wrkHow's the other WebGUI books coming along btw?05:21
+Radix-wrkI just ordered a copy of the Content Managers Guide for the office here, but keen on the other two when they're out too :)05:21
@rizenthe admins guide is going the slowest05:21
@rizencuz it has prereqs05:21
@rizeni have to get the new wre built05:21
@rizenin order to write the book05:21
+Radix-wrkAhh k05:22
@rizenthe design one is more than half finished05:22
@rizenso that one will be out next05:22
@rizenprobably in june05:22
@rizenthe admins guide is more than 1/3 done05:22
@rizenbut several of the biggest chapters deal with the wre05:22
@rizenand i don't want to document the old wre05:22
@rizenor rather, i don't want to document both the old and the new05:23
+Radix-wrkThe admins guide - will that cover using the webgui api at all?05:23
@rizenso that's why i have to get the new one done05:23
@rizenadmins is all about sys admin stuff05:23
@rizenwhich is mostly performance, security, and troubleshooting05:23
+Radix-wrkokey, so apache/mysql/wre stuff05:23
@rizenand webgui config stuff05:23
+Radix-wrkfair enough05:24
@rizeni've been debating whether we should write a dev book05:24
+Radix-wrkand designers guide is more template manipulation stuff?05:24
@rizenyup, design guide is all about templates, css, html, and javascript05:24
@rizenand mostly templates and css05:24
+Radix-wrkWell I'd be interested in a dev book, but yeah, don't know how many others will05:25
@rizenwe already publish a lot of dev stuff on the site05:26
@rizenthough i realize it's not very well organized05:26
+Radix-wrkI've actually got my sabbatical planned around WebGUI - and hope to throw myself in the deep end and spend some time learning the API and how to program in perl05:27
+Radix-wrkHeading off to Europe in August and going to spend a couple of weeks with Oqapi05:27
@rizenthe other thing is, that i'm not very fond of selling stuff to developers...i'd rather give it to them for free05:28
@rizenbut if we put out a book05:28
@rizenwe need to charge for it05:28
@rizenit's one of those crazy cycles05:28
@rizenyour sabbatical sounds great05:28
@rizenthe guys at Oqapi are awesome05:28
+Radix-wrkYeah, flight is booked, accomodation organised - and of course I get to spend a bit of time in Europe after that travelling around, so will be a launchpad for that05:29
+Radix-wrkI'm pretty excited about the trip05:30
xdangerrizen: would you have some time for a dev question?05:45
xdangerI have a custom asset that has a checkList in definitions %properties hash... and I would like to attach a "Manage" link to it (like on templates) and can't find a way to hook it...05:47
@rizenok, i'm off the phone05:57
@rizenradix: http://www.plainblack.com/wg/karma05:58
@rizenxdanger, that's easy05:58
@rizendo you know how to use the $session->icon api?05:58
@rizenif you do05:58
@rizenthen you just pass your manage icon05:58
@rizeninto the subtext parameter05:58
@rizenof your form field05:59
xdangerok, had missed the subtext param...05:59
xdangerI have a few hundred workflows running whit the status "undefined" what does that mean?06:00
@rizenwhere did you see that "status" ?06:01
xdangerperl spectre.pl --status 06:02
xdangerit has last state06:02
xdangerand in the "show running workflows" section06:03
@rizenhmm that's not good06:03
@rizenthat most likely means that those workflows are crashing when they try to execuute06:03
@rizenplus, you should never have a few hundred workflows06:03
@rizeneven on our busiest servers, that have almost 100 sites06:03
@rizenwe never have more than 50 or so workflows waiting around to be executed06:04
xdangerHmm.. it has one for every 5min for the last month or more...06:04
xdangerstrange that it doesn't hapen on other sites on the same server06:05
@rizenit's likely some sort of config issue then06:05
@rizenwith spectre running06:05
@rizenwhat happens when you do06:05
@rizenperl spectre.pl --test06:05
xdangertesting.... tests completed.06:06
xdangerI have this in webgui.log: 2007/05/11 05:55:56 - ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1013] - WORKFLOW: Something bad happened on the return of IsDtpNfe7cvKvjJy9WRwNQ.06:06
@rizenthere you go then06:06
@rizenincrease your log level06:06
@rizento INFO06:06
@rizenand it will likely tell you what happenedd06:06
xdangerctre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1013] - ADMIN: Couldn't fetch Spectre configuration data for webgui...06:08
xdangerok, so something wrong with the config =)06:08
@rizenwhat version of webgui are you running?06:08
xdangerjust upgraded to latest06:09
@rizenand you restarted both spectre and modperl after the upgrade was complete?06:09
xdangermany times =)06:09
@rizenok then, don't know what to tell you06:09
xdangerand this was happening before I belive...06:09
@rizenyou'll have to troubleshoot why it can't read the config data06:10
@rizenfrom your server, you could try:06:10
xdangercould it be some parameter missing?06:10
@rizencurl http://www.site.com?op=spectreGetSiteData06:10
@rizenand see if it returns a valid JSON document06:11
@rizenthen you need to discover why that's happening06:13
@rizenand fix it06:13
@rizensorry i can't be more specific06:13
xdanger main::[[undef]] - Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Spectre::www_spectreGetSiteData. Root cause: Can't call method "get" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Spectre.pm line 53.06:16
@rizentwo problems there06:25
@rizen1) you have a corrupt workflow in your WorkflowInstance table06:25
@rizen2) there is a bug in WebGUI::Operation::Spectre, in that it's not handling your corrupt data more gracefully06:26
xdangerMy fault...06:33
xdangerI had now added the right Workflow that I was refering to =)06:34
xdangerIs there a workflow waiting timeout? for commitWithApproval06:42
xdangerHow long it waits for approval? does it clean up at some point?06:43
@rizenit waits forever06:44
@rizenuntil someone either approves or denies it06:44
xdangerMy user has Already cluttered her inbox and has approved newer autotags..06:45
xdangerThere's not a function tu approve pending versions in admin console?06:46
@rizenno..only approvers can approve them06:47
@rizenand they get them in their inbox06:47
@rizenand pending stuff is always at the top of the inbox06:47
xdangerI just don't like that the end user gets a mail about every approval... We have a cs that users can edit, and some of them manage to edit multiple times before admin has time to approve...06:48
xdangerSuspended Workflows   5706:48
xdangerall same site waiting...06:49
@rizenxd, i'm not an rfe list, if you want something to work differently, submit it to the rfe list not to me06:50
xdangerI'm just thinking aloud...06:50
@rizenin any case...i'm done for th enight...ttyl06:51
xdangerI think I'm done for the night, and the mornign...06:53
xdangerI hate upgrade nights =)06:53
xdangerthe always strech to the morning06:53
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nubaheh ain't that soo true!08:21
nubafamous last words: "just a sec, boss, this upgrade will be a snap!.."08:22
nubaand then "whoops!"08:23
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Teonnyn^Is anyone awake?11:54
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AMH_bobI jumped in too soon... A "Teonnyn" was here earlier, looking for help. Unfortunatly he/she left before I responded.14:51
AMH_bobBut Hi to you too!14:51
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SDuensinGood morning.16:06
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SDuensinHey rizen - I shipped a demo of the ZK Desktop that doesn't take a PHD in Eclipse to install if you still want to play with it.  http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=69481018:31
@rizeni hate you want want you to die18:31
SDuensinGee, is that a way to talk to your #1 wG fan?18:32
@rizenoh, did i say that outloud18:32
@rizeni'll take a look at some point. unfortunately i'm pretty busy right now18:33
@rizenthanks for letting me know18:33
SDuensinI hear that.  "Busy" is why I don't have a prototype desktop done in YUI yet.  :-)18:33
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* PedersenMJ waves, in a good mood. Just ran the last of the wires for the networking upstairs. Finally starting to get comfortable with this :)05:33
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+perlDreamerpreaction: have you got anywhere with the generic Container asset?07:19
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SDuensinGood morning.16:14
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ckotilgood morning16:22
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+snapcountI've found a bug and the cause but I'm not sure what the best fix is... anyone care to discuss?17:53
SDuensinBest fix is the one that makes it work that I don't have to write.  :-P17:53
+snapcounthehe there he is17:53
+snapcountI miss the witty responses17:53
Hinrikand the best way to get the fix is to just ask, not ask to ask :P17:54
SDuensinSorry.  Been busy lately.  :-)17:54
+crythiasdelete the code that causes the bug17:54
+snapcounthehe hey crythias 17:54
+snapcountwell I'll talk outloud and maybe I'll figure out a good way on my own17:55
+snapcountany hackers listening feel free to chime in17:55
+snapcountif you grant all privileges to a user on a database then use the sql form with a dblink on that db it says the proper permissions are not there17:56
+snapcountthe reason is that the _databaseLinkHasPrivileges sub is pushing a big ass string onto the @privilges array17:57
+snapcount$VAR1 = [17:57
+snapcount          'GRANT USAGE ON *.* TO \'ipLookup\'@\'localhost\' IDENTIFIED BY PASSWORD \'*DBE711C67C780542D8C70A6639FA2A5DB1D352DF\'',17:57
+snapcount          'GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON `ipaddressassignments`.* TO \'ipLookup\'@\'localhost\''17:57
+snapcount        ];17:57
+snapcount$VAR1 = [17:57
+snapcount          'GRANT USAGE ON *.* TO \'ipLookup\'@\'localhost\' IDENTIFIED BY PASSWORD \'*DBE711C67C780542D8C70A6639FA2A5DB1D352DF\'',17:57
+snapcount          'GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON `ipaddressassignments`.* TO \'ipLookup\'@\'localhost\''17:58
+snapcount        ];17:58
+snapcountsomething like that17:58
+snapcountbut then doing this to check permissions17:58
+snapcountreturn 1 if (isIn('ALL PRIVILEGES', @privileges));, 17:58
+snapcountso it seems the intent is to have the element 'ALL PRIVILEGES' in the array17:59
+snapcountand not that string17:59
+snapcountI think I see why this is happening18:05
+snapcountthe regex pushing elements on the array is splitting off of the comma character18:05
+snapcountthere is no comma in the "show grants for current_user" stmt result18:05
+snapcountGRANT USAGE ON *.* TO 'foo'@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY PASSWORD '*F3A2A51A9B0F2BE2468926B4132313728C250DBF' | 18:06
+snapcount| GRANT SELECT, INSERT, UPDATE ON `ipaddressassignments`.* TO 'foo'@'localhost'18:06
+snapcountso if you have all privileges the comma is not there, and you get big-ass-string instead of the good stuff18:07
+snapcountthis should be easy to fix18:07
+snapcountI hate regular expressions18:17
+snapcountperhaps if I were good at them I wouldn't say that18:17
@preactionbut if split doesn't find the delimiter, it should return the entire string18:24
+crythiaswhy do I find that sentence vaguely scatlogical?18:25
+snapcountit does18:25
+snapcountthe problem is that isIn doesn't match "All Privileges" from big ass string18:26
@preactionmight need to use grep?18:29
@preactionshould we also just be looking for /ALL/i? I'm not sure how other RDBMS say all privs. i think i added an error message for some debugging purposes, but didn't get much feedback18:32
+snapcountI have a patch but it needs to be tested18:38
+snapcountit seems to work18:38
+snapcountchange line 660 to this18:38
@preactionthe guy on the buglist might be able to help, he tested my stuff18:39
+snapcountif (m/GRANT (.*) ON/) {18:39
+snapcountI don't know why martin made it so specific18:39
+snapcounthe probably had a reason though b/c he's smart18:40
+snapcountok I'll post the bug with the patch and make it clear that it needs to be tested18:40
+snapcountthanks for the feedback though18:41
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SDuensinGood morning!16:23
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@rizentop of the mornin to ya16:52
@preactionhear hear!16:53
SDuensinrizen !  preaction !16:55
@preactionalive and kicking?16:55
* SDuensin is coffee powered.16:56
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Ecnerifedhi all17:02
Ecnerifedim thinking of using webgui for our website, i need to know how easy it is to mod?17:02
@rizenoooh we've got a new guy17:02
@rizendo you know perl?17:03
Ecnerifedno :(17:03
SDuensinNEW GUY!17:03
SDuensinEcnerifed - Neither did I.  It's not hard.17:03
@rizenthen it won't be easy for you to mod, cuz webgui is written in perl17:03
@rizenhowever, perl is not a hard language to get started with17:03
@rizenas sd just said17:04
SDuensinPerl can either look like an ASCII Factory explosion, or clean and readable.  WebGUI is pretty clean.17:04
@rizenhere's your first perl scrip17:04
@rizenprint "Hello world\n";17:04
Ecnerifedok, well, what i need to mod is, i need to make webgui use a custom password hash, instead of the default one, i also need it to use different rows to the username and pass hash17:05
@rizenseriously though, if you want the best perl book on the market17:05
@rizenif you want to learn it17:05
@rizenget this: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1932111921/17:05
Ecnerifedhow hard would that be?17:05
@rizenonce you know perl...pretty easy17:06
@rizenon a scale of 1..1017:06
@rizenit's probably a 317:06
Ecnerifedok, so i must find a perl dev now :(...17:06
@rizenwhat part of the world are you from?17:07
SDuensinSounds like you're trying to auth against an existing database. 17:07
SDuensinCan you get to it via LDAP?17:07
Ecnerifedi have a c++ dev, a java dev, a php dev, delphi, etc, now i need a perl dev17:07
* Ecnerifed sighs big time17:07
@rizenat that site you can locate your local perl mongers group17:08
Ecnerifedi dont even kno what LDAP is...17:08
@rizenthey'll point you to a perl dev17:08
@rizenincidentally, if your existing developers are worth anything17:08
@rizenthey should be able to pick up perl quickly17:08
@rizenespecially the c++ and php peeps17:08
Ecnerifedim just the owner of the server, even though i seem to be doing a bit of everything17:09
@rizencuz perl has a natural bond to c17:09
@rizenand php is a descendant of perl17:09
Ecnerifedi gotta work on a volenteer basis since its a free server :(17:10
+Radix_there's no perl mongers group in Perth :(17:34
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@rizenradix...you should start one17:35
+Radix_lol.. but I don't know perl myself!17:35
@rizenthere wasn't one in madison when i got here17:35
+Radix_well.. not more than the basics anyway :)17:36
@rizenthat's actually all you need17:36
@rizenperl mongers is a training program17:36
@rizenwhereby all it's members train each other17:36
@rizenyou figure out things together17:36
@rizenand pm.org will give you free web space, and a free mailing list17:36
@rizenso you don't need to have any expenses17:36
@rizenand on top of that, o'reilly will give you free books17:37
@rizento evaluate17:37
+Radix_perhaps after my sabbatical I can think about it.. at the moment I really don't feel confident enough with perl to do much17:37
+Radix_that was the idea behind the sabbatical.. to throw myself into perl and webgui and learn more about it all17:38
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ckotilman, i encountered a wierd bug with pending version tags today.18:00
ckotilmade a PB support forum post.18:00
SDuensinAny CSS experts in here?  I got an IE issue I can't fix.  :-(18:02
+crythiasnot an expert, but willing to take a gander18:02
ckotilim not very good at it, i just try recreating the wheel until the wheel works in all browsers18:02
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SDuensincrythias - with IE (preferably 6), look at http://new.duensing.com ...18:13
SDuensinIf you expand the "Rylee-Photos-Age 2" portion of the tree, it makes the menu item text wider than the column...18:14
SDuensinOn working browsers, that extra text is truncated at the line separating the columns.  In IE, it screws up the layout by forcing the menu column to be rendered below the end of the content column.18:15
SDuensinhttp://new.duensing.com/duensing-style/duensing.css currently has "overflow-x" in it, which I know doesn't work (it's CSS3), but I figured I'd try since "overflow" didn't work either.18:17
+crythiasinteresting it works in ie tab18:25
+crythiasack. I don't have IE6.18:26
SDuensinIt truncates that wide text?18:26
+crythiasIE7 works.18:26
SDuensinIE7.  I didn't try it there.18:26
SDuensinWith Windows Genuine Annoyance, I want to still support 6.18:27
+crythiasbut then again...I'd probably try to not confine to a div18:27
SDuensinHow can I do it?18:27
* SDuensin is no CSS expert. He "borrowed" that layout.18:27
+crythiasI don't know that I like the expansion layout. 18:28
SDuensinThe who?  The tree thing?18:28
+crythiasIt's my fault, though.18:28
+crythiasyeah, it's just personal preference because it (to me) appears to be too many clicks to get to the point.18:29
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SDuensinI used the tree because that menu has the possibility of getting HUGE.18:45
SDuensinGuess I need to rethink it.18:45
SDuensinStill, it won't fix my problem if the text is too wide.  It still needs clipped.18:45
+crythiasif the menu is to be huge, that menu system will cause long load times.18:46
SDuensinThat's true.  The tree loads all at once.  That'd be bad.18:46
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+perlDreamerpreaction: why does the method of getting the URL inside of a Thread break macros that use $session->asset?21:23
@preactionbecause $session->asset points to the current asset as instanciated from the URL21:24
@preactionhaving urla?func=previousThread actually display the thread with url="urlb" means $session->asset points to urla21:24
@preactionunless the code updates $session->asset (which would be worse)21:25
+perlDreamerdoes that mean that we don't need to www_nextThread methods anymore then?21:25
+perlDreamerlike mark them as deprecated?21:25
@preactionlet me see if the DoS still has their bug open for the side effect of this bug21:26
@preactionyeah, i'd probably mark them as deprecated21:29
+perlDreamerI'll patch them21:30
pjesican someone remind me of the svn repository?21:33
pjesijust lost all my bookmarks to a horrible FF extension21:40
pjesithe ical, does it always subscribe to the entire calendar, or does it matter which view is enabled (month/week/day/event)?21:44
@rizenthe view has nothing to do with the feed21:45
pjesiok good21:45
@rizenif anybody's got some ideas on what i'm doing wrong with the following code, please shout them out.21:49
@rizenmy $var = 1;21:49
@rizenmy $handler = &somesub;21:50
@rizenthe problem is that $var never gets passed into $handler21:50
@rizen$handler does get executed though21:50
@preactionit should be \&somesub; # get a reference, not the output21:57
@rizeni knew i was sccrewing up something21:57
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+perlDreamerare scripts in sbin supposed to a #! line?23:30
@rizenwre/sbin yes23:31
@rizenWebGUI/sbin no23:31
+perlDreamer-3 bugs23:31
SDuensinOh my god.  Start looking for the four horsemen.  IE7 just rendered something correctly and Firefox blew it.23:35
+perlDreamerYou must be mistaken, SD.23:36
@rizeni agree, sd is smoking something23:36
+perlDreamerThat's like saying that entropy decreased.23:36
@rizenSD: you really blew that guy23:36
@rizenSD: you really licked his ass23:36
+crythiasDemolition Man!23:37
+crythiasAll restaurants are Taco Bell!23:37
* crythias vomits a little in his mouth.23:38
@rizencrythias, you can take this job and shovel it23:38
SDuensinI know.  I can hardly believe my eyes.23:38
* SDuensin is doing some DOM inspecting to see if Firefox is looking at the same thing IE is using.23:38
+crythiasYou are a savage creature rizen, and I wish for you to leave my domicile now!23:40
+crythiasYou've finally matched his meet!23:41
+crythiasrizen, You are an incredibly sensitive man, who inspires joy-joy feelings in all those around you.23:42
@rizencrythias, You are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute. 23:45
+crythiasWhat's with the seashells?23:46
@rizenI want you to rob, I want you to pillage, I want you to steal! I want you to do all the wonderful things that we used to do before all of this happened! This world will be ours! Are you with me?23:46
@rizenhe doesn't know how to use the three sea shells23:46
+crythiasyay IMDB quotes!23:46
@rizeni've been meaning to watch that movie again23:48
@rizenjust haven't had time23:48
+perlDreamerdude, you work at home!23:50
@rizenyeah, but that doesn't mean i don't work all day long23:51
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@rizenpreaction, when you get a chance, can you please permanently op jamestolley00:03
@rizenjames, please register your account with freenode00:03
@rizencheck out www.freenode.net for info on how to do that00:03
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@rizenif anybody is here, i have a question04:16
@rizenan opinion needed04:16
@rizenif the WRE has a web based console for adding/removing/editing sites and all other functions, and an API for automation04:16
+Radix-wrki'm here04:16
@rizendoes it need command line utilities as well for any reason?04:16
+Radix-wrkSorry.. phone04:21
+Radix-wrkProbably not really04:21
@vaydeI think it does.  I distrust gui utilities, but that might just be my neurosis04:22
+Radix-wrkthe onyl advantage I find with command line is that you tend to get more feedback/errors if something goes wrong04:22
+Radix-wrkand more options04:23
@rizenassuming you had every option04:24
@rizenand every error message04:24
@rizenand every level of output04:24
@vaydeplus you get the satisfaction of getting your prompt back, knowing it finished04:24
@rizenand vayde, i'm afraid i can't take your paranoia into account...do you have any good reasons?04:24
@rizenthis will be doing things in realtime04:25
@vaydeI'm not saying you should necessarily.04:25
@rizenso when the page comes back04:25
@rizenyou will have the same satisfaction04:25
@rizeni'm not saying i shouldn't have command line tools. i'm just wondering what purpose they might serve...and i don't really see one at this point04:26
@vaydeIn my experience, cli is more reliable.  things tend to work, or fail in ways that lead you to the answer.  guis don't always04:26
@vaydethat's just my 2 cents though04:26
@rizeni think that has more to do with most of the CLI apps that you've used have been around for 20 years04:26
@rizenand are well tested04:26
@rizenand well written04:27
+Radix-wrkCommand line utilities are a good way to learn automation as well I've found, and can be used as a starting point to hack the default and tweak it to do what you want - that's how I started my adduser script prettymuch04:30
@rizeni'm thinking about maybe providing some limited functionality command line utilities04:30
+Radix-wrkSo for example if someone wanted to add a new site as a clone from an existing one.. or make it so that every new site also included a bunch of specific pages, etc04:31
@rizenand putting the full features in the GUI04:31
@rizenthe reason is that i think that most people will prefer the GUI04:31
@rizenvayde's feelings to the contrary04:31
+Radix-wrkWill there be a way to disable it in the GUI if you want?04:32
@rizenand if i'm wrong04:32
@rizenthen we can always expand the CLI tools04:32
@rizendisable what?04:32
+Radix-wrkie. if you want to give a user admin for a site, but don't want them to be able to add new sites whenever they like?04:32
* SDuensin just read the scrollback...04:32
@rizenno...this is an admin only tool04:32
SDuensinIf it has an API, it'd be easy to roll a CLI tool.04:33
@rizenthis is not something you give your hosting clients04:33
@rizenthat's what the API is there fore04:33
@rizento tie the WRE into whatever console tool you give your clients04:33
@rizenor whatever04:33
SDuensinMy clients get NUTHIN'!  Just the bill!  :-)04:33
+Radix-wrkokay, so how is it exposed to the admin by default?04:33
@rizena web based gui04:34
+Radix-wrkon a separate port address?  in webgui itself?04:34
@rizenon a seperate port04:34
@rizeni wrote a seperate web server04:34
@rizenbased upon HTTP::Daemon04:34
+Radix-wrkk, cool04:34
@rizenthat way you can use this tool to restart apache04:35
@rizenwithout affecting the tool04:35
+Radix-wrkSounds good to me.. ship it!04:35
@rizenit's not entirely written yet04:35
@rizenthe web server is04:35
@rizenbut not the functionality that goes in it04:36
@rizenthis is all part of the WRE 0.8.0 rewrite04:36
SDuensinMORE WEB SERVERS!  (I only run 4 so far!)04:36
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SDuensinGood morning all.16:06
+crythiasMorning? bah. If I didn't sleep, it's still yesterday.16:07
+crythiasrizen shine!16:08
+crythiashee :)16:08
+crythiasjust.. felt right to say that.16:09
+crythiashrm. so ... what about this universal pwd WorksLikeASlave?16:10
+crythiasI get emails for tech support requests posted on zolved.com16:15
SDuensinZolved?  Never been there.16:15
+crythiasa rash of "I installed ypops on Vista for Outlook 2007. I get an invalid pop3 account ... is this a Vista issue?"16:16
+crythiasI shrug to myself.16:16
+crythiasI might lose $$ by not knowing what Vista is and supporting it, but that's almost like shooting fish in a barrel.16:16
+crythiasexcept I'd have to buy a barrel.16:17
+crythiasand fish.16:17
SDuensinThat's the only reason I installed Vista.  Just so I can support it.16:17
+crythiasthat's a really sad reason.16:17
SDuensinOnly reason I've found to use it.16:18
+crythiasI like my xp installed base for my company.16:18
+crythiasI'd like to go to Feisty Faun, but I think I'd get too much heat.16:18
+crythiasespecially too many proprietary windows apps.16:19
+crythiasthen again, I *could* be the test case.16:19
* SDuensin is an OS X fan.16:20
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ckotilim rebuilding an xserve18:08
ckotilcant find the serial for 10.4!!!!!18:08
* SDuensin is now officially jealous.18:09
ckotilwe dont have the big ass raid18:49
SDuensinI don't care.  :-)18:54
ckotilyah, its pretty sweet. its our backup server, we run retrospect19:09
SDuensinI just built a BackupPC based backup server.  Works REALLY well!19:13
ckotilsomething is screwey with the disk's in it tho, i couldnt pinpoint a bad disk or bad raid card..19:13
ckotildoes it backup windows/linux/mac workstations?19:13
SDuensinYea.  Using either SSH and rsync (or TAR) or you can use SMB.19:19
SDuensinI have two of them, each 1 TB.  One backs up my house and servers and the other (will) does my parent's house.  Then they sync.19:20
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SDuensinIt even gracefully handles me running off with my laptop while it's in the middle of being backed up.  :-)19:33
SDuensinHi MrHairgreas1 19:33
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SDuensinThe dead have rizen !19:37
@rizenyou're stealing crythias line19:37
SDuensinI know.  :-P19:37
@rizendid he open source it?19:37
@rizenor provide a creative commons license?19:37
@rizenthat's good19:38
@rizenbut it still doesn't mean microsoft won't sue SD for patent infringement19:38
+crythiasactually, I take that back. CC SA19:38
+crythiasshare alike by attribution :)19:39
+crythiasrizer? but I hardly even know her!19:40
+crythiasButter. It's whats for dinner.19:41
@rizenHot dogs. Armor hot dogs. The dogs kids love to bite.19:43
+crythiasoh, no.19:43
+crythiasIt's better than bad, it's good!19:43
@rizenif anyone is interested, the new WRE API is absolutely going to rule for integration into web console interfaces19:44
+crythiasyeah. so nice we're going to call it WRAPITUP19:44
@rizeneverything that the WRE scripts can do will be presented through an object oriented perl API19:44
+crythiasWebGUI Runtime API smth smth smth .. Profit!19:45
+crythiasTotally Under Perl19:46
+MrHairgreaselooking forward to it19:46
+MrHairgreasewe're thinking of running a number of sites of ours under the wre19:47
@rizenanyone know why using carp messages would screw up Test::More19:48
@rizenif i leave my carps in the code the tests fail, but if i comment them out they succeed19:48
@rizenvery strange19:49
+MrHairgreasemaybe test::more checks for carps somehow19:49
+MrHairgreaseand sees them as failures...19:49
@rizena carp is supposed to be a warn...so it shouldn't screw with it19:49
+MrHairgreasebut maybe tm sees warns as failures19:50
+MrHairgreasei dunno19:50
+MrHairgreasebut it seems plausible19:50
+crythias ___/\______/|19:51
+crythias/_ * oO O O o<19:51
+crythiasholy carp?19:51
+crythiasWhat's this burger made of? Rats? Best burger I've had in years.19:53
+MrHairgreasecrythias, are you drinking?19:54
+MrHairgreaseor on some controlled substance =)19:54
+crythiaswhy? would that make this funnier?19:54
+MrHairgreasenot per se19:54
+MrHairgreasebut more understandable19:54
@rizenesta tacogne?19:57
@rizenesta rata?19:57
@rizenthis is a rat burger?19:57
+crythiasdo you see any cows around here?19:58
+MrHairgrease4 to be exact19:59
+crythiasheh. He said "Bump Uglies"20:00
@rizenthe honka chonka20:00
@rizenthen smoke some cigarettes and raid the fridge20:01
+crythiasgrr. 6.7.4 ...20:01
+crythiasI'm trying to get 6.7.4 live on a new box to upgrade20:01
+crythiasI am close, but having trouble remembering how to allow uploads to work and extras in the right direction...20:02
@rizenmrhg, are you supposed to trap carps with eval blocks?20:05
@rizenthe same way you trap croaks?20:05
+MrHairgreasei dunno20:06
+MrHairgreasei never write code thta blows up20:06
+MrHairgreaseso i never needed to write someyhing like that =)20:06
@rizenme either, but i'm connecting to code that blows up20:06
@rizenso i'm trying to throw a warning when their code blows up20:07
+MrHairgreasemaybe an eval would do the job20:07
+MrHairgreasei googled a bit20:07
+MrHairgreaseand serached on perlmonks20:07
+MrHairgreasebut couldn't really find the problem you're having20:08
@rizenme too20:08
+MrHairgreasemaybe you should mail the test::more dude20:08
+MrHairgreasethat's ndy lester right?20:08
@rizenyeah, i tried IM'ing him, but he's not around right now20:09
+MrHairgreasei can't help you with this one20:09
+MrHairgreasethat's the bane of writing flawless code =)20:09
@rizenwahoo...andy was just there for 2 seconds and figured out that i'm an idiot20:19
@rizeni was doing use Carp;20:19
@rizennot use Carp qw(carp);20:20
@preactionyou have to explicitly export carp now?20:20
@rizencuz it works now that i did that20:20
@rizeneven weirder20:21
@rizeni can't just do it in the super class20:21
@rizeni have to do it in each subclass20:21
+MrHairgreasethat is not too weird20:21
+MrHairgreaseExpoter only exports into the package20:22
+MrHairgreasewhich is not the same as the package of the uper class]20:22
@rizenso objects don't inherit exports?20:22
+MrHairgreaseI think so20:22
@rizenhmmm..then i've been doing it wrong in webgui for many years20:22
@rizenand it's worked20:22
+MrHairgreasein almost no cases there are actually subs imported20:23
@rizenin Asset.pm20:23
@rizenit doesn't matter20:23
@rizennow that i know how to do it the right way20:23
@rizeni'm going to do that20:23
@rizenit's amazing that after using perl for more than 10 years, i'm still learning trivial things20:24
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+crythiaswhat does "Cannot open config file" mean on an update.pl?21:08
+crythiasI'm reasonably certain it's still there...21:08
+MrHairgreasei know that one21:08
+MrHairgreasepls wait21:08
+crythiasunf. this is 6.8.9-6.8.1021:08
+MrHairgreaseit's a bug in the upgrade.pl21:09
+crythiasoh. snap. ok.. 21:09
+MrHairgreaseit had me puzzled for a long time too21:11
+crythiasbecause 6.8.10 comes before 6.8.221:12
+MrHairgreasethe order in which the script displays the upgrades doesn't matter21:12
+MrHairgreasethe upgrade script pulls the wrong current wg version out of the db21:13
+MrHairgreasethat's what's going wrong21:13
+crythiasYou inspire joy joy feelings in all those around you.21:14
+MrHairgreaseit's becomming real tiresome =)21:14
@preactionenhance your calm21:19
+crythias"respond with, "or else""21:19
@preactionnow i gotta dig up my VHS of that movie... 21:20
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xdangerIs there a way for allowing users to register, but that the account would be disabled until admins approve the user?23:23
@rizenthere's a jury rigged way you could do it now23:25
@rizenand a good way to do it in 7.423:25
@rizenthe jury rig is to notify admins on new user23:26
@rizenand then have them put the user into a group23:26
@rizenoh wait23:26
@rizenif you don't mind writing a quick workflow activity23:26
@rizenyou could do this now23:26
@rizenthere is a workflow that is kicked off on user registration23:26
@rizenyou could disable their account23:27
@rizenand notify the admin to approve it23:27
@rizenusing a workflow activity23:27
@rizenanyway...there's no way built in to webgui to do this23:27
@rizenyou'd have to do something yourself23:27
xdangerok... workflow could work...23:30
xdangerI'll have a look at that next week...23:30
xdangerI'll contribute the results then23:30
+crythiasgrr spectre23:53
--- Day changed Thu May 17 2007
+crythiasok. I'm being silly.00:00
+crythiasspectre won't connect to my server...00:01
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+crythiasERROR: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site server1.conf @ http://server1a:80/?op=spectreTest because it returned HTTP::Response=HASH(0x8f209f8)00:13
+crythiasalthough ...00:14
+crythiaslinks says I get "spectre"00:15
+crythiasrizen: in lib/Spectre/Admin.pm would it be possible/useful/etc to verbose error a line like this:  print "ERROR: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site $key @ $url because it returned $response \n";00:21
+crythiashrm. env_proxy problem.00:29
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@rizencrythias...per your question before, submit a patch to the bug list and we'll get it in the next release04:17
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crythia1Now I need to know what I asked. :)05:20
crythia1oh, yeah.05:20
crythia1but it wouldn't have helped.05:20
crythia1rizen: here's the deal05:20
crythia1env_proxy killed spectre in Admin.pm when spectre was running on the same network.05:21
crythia1I was troubleshooting it, and realized it too late.05:21
crythia1took me many hours to realize it.05:21
crythia1actually, on the same box05:23
@rizenwhat does that have to do with you submitting a patch to the bug list?05:23
crythia1nothing. Only the why of the patch was important.05:35
@rizenthat's what i was missing05:35
@rizeni was trying to figure out if you were saying that the patch is no longer needed05:35
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@rizenor something else was needed05:35
crythia1The patch wouldn't have fixed the issue.05:36
crythia1I mean, it's nice to know that I couldn't connect and that it was trying to access the right website.05:36
crythia1that information I didn't have.05:36
crythia1but the problem was that Spectre was using env_proxy on the same box as WebGUI.05:37
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SDuensinGood morning.16:11
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SDuensinHey ckotil 19:04
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misterslurpeyI need a little help23:01
misterslurpeydo u  mind?23:01
@rizeni guarantee nothing, but you can ask23:01
misterslurpeyI am trying to install WEBgui on my apache server, but i am using a windows pc23:02
misterslurpeyso do i use the windows install?23:02
@rizenyes, though i have to admit that the windows install is by far the most difficult23:04
@rizenwebgui works fine on windows once you get it up and running, but it's designed to run on a unix/linux environment23:04
misterslurpeyno my webserver is linux23:04
@rizenyou just said you're using windows23:05
misterslurpeybut my pc is windows23:05
@rizenthat's no big deal23:05
@rizendo you have root access on your linux server?23:05
misterslurpeyIll i have is Cpanel and ftp23:05
@rizenthat won't work. webgui requires root access.23:05
@rizenit's an enterprise level system, so it's not just a script you install like some other web publishing systems23:06
@rizenit's meant to take over the server23:06
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@rizenthat said...there are plenty of hosters out there23:07
@rizenthat sell accounts for between $10 and $30 a month23:07
misterslurpeymynes a free 20gb23:07
@rizenthey handle all the webgui install for you23:07
@rizenso you can just use it23:07
misterslurpeymaybe ill ask my webhost23:07
@rizenthat's a good idea23:07
misterslurpeythey are very nice23:07
@rizenthey may decide they want to offer webgui as a service23:07
@rizenlots of web hosts are doing that these days23:07
@rizencuz webgui puts a lot of power into people's hands23:08
misterslurpeycan i use a theme i found23:08
misterslurpeyfor this23:08
misterslurpeywell my server host is in the uk and they are all sleeping23:09
@rizenonce you get your webgui instance up and running you can come back here and someone will help you get your theme installed23:09
* SDuensin hosts! :-)23:09
SDuensinSo does rizen.  :-)23:09
misterslurpeyim really new to websites, so is perl better than php?23:09
@rizenMPedersen is the one that helps most people out with that23:09
misterslurpeyor are they the same23:09
@rizenphp is a descendant of perl23:10
misterslurpeyso which is widely used23:10
@rizenphp is generally a litlte easier to code than perl, but perl has much more power and flexibility23:10
misterslurpeyso perl is more secure?23:10
@rizenphp is probably more widkely used for for your average web site23:10
@rizenbut really big sites run perl23:10
misterslurpeyman i must have a good host then23:10
misterslurpeygiving me free perl23:11
@rizenyahoo, amazon, slashdot, etc are all run on perl23:11
misterslurpeyi see23:11
@rizenoh, and ticket master, the bbc web site, and shopzilla also23:11
misterslurpeyi looked on wiki pedia not many scripts though23:11
@rizenphp is more popular these days23:12
@rizencuz its easier to learn, as i said23:12
@rizenbut perl is more powerful23:12
@rizenso it's about what it is that you want to do it23:13
misterslurpeyi like perl than23:13
misterslurpeyI just want a forum and a web page.23:13
@rizenif you're all about running a small to medium sized ordinary web site23:13
@rizenthen php might be better23:13
misterslurpeywell its more stronger like u said.23:13
@rizenwebgui can do the stuff you just listed, but so can other apps23:13
@rizenwebgui rules23:13
@rizenand i think everyone should use it23:14
misterslurpeythats what i wanted to hear23:14
@rizenbut it's not a small system23:14
misterslurpeyi looked at it, and thought this would help me.23:14
misterslurpeyhow big is webgui?23:15
@rizen200,000 lines of code23:15
@rizenlike i said, it's designed to take over a server23:16
@rizenwhen you put it on a server, it can run hundreds of sites on a single server23:16
misterslurpeyso that file on source forge is the size right.23:16
@rizenthere are two parts23:16
@rizenthe WebGUI Runtime Environment (WRE)23:16
@rizenand WebGUI Source23:16
@rizenyou need both23:16
@rizenif you add in the WRE then you're talking about millions of lines of code23:17
@rizenthe WRE is all the stuff you need to run webgui, perl, mysql, apache, etc23:17
@rizenthen WebGUI itself is about 20mb (or 10mb compressed)23:17
misterslurpeymy little server is only 2gb.23:18
misterslurpeymy host guys are sleeping  i think23:27
@rizenSDuensin, what do you guys provide for hosting?23:28
SDuensinWe do FTP space, unlimited Email, WebGUI, CPanel, Fantastico (to auto-install a ton of web apps), and hella bandwidth.  :-)23:29
@rizenat what price?23:29
SDuensin$20 a month.23:29
SDuensinI'd love to be cheaper, but I gotta eat.  :-D23:30
misterslurpeyI get 2gb for free23:30
misterslurpeybut no root acess23:30
SDuensinI don't have a hard size limit.  However, if you take over the box, you're likely going to not get to stay at $20.  :-D23:31
@rizenfor all that you're giving i'd say that's super cheap23:31
misterslurpeymy other Web host is 10 gb and is free as well23:31
SDuensinrizen - I try!  Just wish I was a half-ass decent salesman.  I couldn't sell free money.23:32
@rizenour cheapest package is WebGUI, 25 email accounts, 10gb bandwidth, and 500mb storage, with nightly backups and monitoring for $2023:32
@rizenhow do these hosts stay in business if they give away hosting for free?23:32
misterslurpeyI dunno23:33
misterslurpeythey are nice to me23:33
SDuensinOh yea.  We have off-box RAID backups at night.  I try and monitor everything, but I don't advertise that as a service.23:33
@rizenwe have a 3 way monitoring system23:33
SDuensinI also try and keep current waaaaaay off-site backups in case of major disaster.  Like off site in another state.  :-)23:33
@rizenhow do you have the bandwidth for nightly backups to another data center?23:34
SDuensinI have two way monitoring - when I see it and when a customer complains.  <G>23:34
SDuensinIt's not exactly "nightly".  It's a "rolling rsync".23:34
SDuensinIt does what it can as fast as it can.23:35
@rizenok, but you must dump your databases23:35
SDuensinI do.23:35
@rizenso do you do that nightly?23:35
@rizenacross the various servers that we host, we're storing about 7 terabytes of data23:36
SDuensinGACK!  Wow.  Yea.  Nowhere near that big (yet).23:36
@rizenso we do full nightly backups, but we couldn't possibly do that to another data center and still have bandwidth left23:36
SDuensinNo kidding.23:37
@rizenwhat's funny is that we're a small hosting outfit at 7 terabytes23:38
@rizenthere are lots of data centers these days that measure stuff in petabytes23:38
SDuensinWish I was a "small hosting outfit".  Hell, I'd be happy just paying my bills.23:38
@rizenwe couldn't survive if all we did was hosting23:39
@rizenthere's very little money in it23:39
@rizenunless you're hosting 100 million customers23:39
SDuensinYea, I know.  I just want it to pay for itself.23:39
SDuensinI don't think my Open Office spreadsheet is ready for 100 million customers.  :-)23:39
misterslurpeyHey if i cant use Web Gui, whats a good Php alternative23:41
@rizenthere isn't a php system that does everything webgui does23:42
SDuensinNot even close.  :-)23:42
* SDuensin is migrating away from other systems as fast as he can.23:43
misterslurpeyHow bout ruby?23:43
@rizenas far as forums, everybody is very fond of phpBB23:43
@rizennothing in ruby close to webgui either23:43
misterslurpeyi just want to edit my pages easily23:43
misterslurpeyand add new ones23:43
@rizenthe only things that are close to webgui are commercial apps23:43
@rizenthat will cost you $10k or more in licensing fees23:44
SDuensinThat's a lot of $20 months.  :-)23:44
misterslurpeyaww shucks23:45
@rizenlet me think23:45
misterslurpeynow i have to hope they will install Webby for me23:45
@rizeni know some people really like joomla, but i find it clumbsy23:45
@rizenand inflexible23:45
SDuensinJoomla can do some neat things, but man, that admin interface has to GO!23:45
@rizenyou may want to conduct a search on cmsmatrix.org23:46
SDuensinTwo of my sites run Joomla at the moment.  One is only a CSS issue away from being replaced.  :-)23:46
misterslurpeyi looked on wiki there are so many23:47
misterslurpeyso im guessing Joomla then23:49
misterslurpeyit isnt up to date though.23:50
misterslurpeynvm mind i found a good one23:53
@rizenjoomla is up to date...it's just made for small web sites23:53
SDuensinOk gang - time for me to bug out.  Talk to you later!23:53
@rizenwhat did you find?23:53
misterslurpeyi found mambo23:53
misterslurpeyrated best ease of use23:53
misterslurpeyrated best free soft ware :)23:54
SDuensinRated not against WebGUI.  :-)23:54
@rizenmambo and joomla are the same thing23:54
SDuensinJoomla is the "new" Mambo, BTW.23:54
@rizenor at least joomla is a fork of mambo23:54
@rizenit's rated highly because it's easy to install23:54
@rizenand relatively easy to use23:54
misterslurpeythats what i want :)23:55
@rizenbut it's very obtuse in many ways23:55
@rizenand completely inflexible23:55
SDuensinYea.  It's really not bad.  But rizen is right - "obtuse" is a good word for it.23:55
@rizenit probably will work for your web site23:55
misterslurpeywould problems might i run into23:55
@rizenit's message board system is kinda crapy though23:55
SDuensinBeing confused to no end by the admin interface.23:56
@rizenit's not a bad system, but it's not good either23:56
SDuensinmisterslurpey - http://www.jaegertech.com and http://www.duensing.com are on Joomla/Mambo.23:56
misterslurpeyit looks so plain23:57
SDuensinI never could get Duensing.com to look or behave like I wanted.  JaegerTech is OK though.23:57
SDuensinWell, "plain" is likely my design.23:57
misterslurpeywell if there arent anything better that Joomla then i guess i have to use it23:58
SDuensinAnyway, I'm going home.  :-)23:58
misterslurpeywait.. i remember this joomla23:58
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misterslurpeyit was confusing23:58
@rizenyeah, it's got a clunky admin interface23:59
misterslurpeymeh i give up23:59
--- Day changed Fri May 18 2007
misterslurpeynow i want web gui more.00:00
@rizenwebgui is really your best bet...if you can get your hosts to install it for you00:00
misterslurpeywell  i asked them if they did forums, and they said they would install it for me. so maybe00:00
misterslurpeyBut i already installed a forum00:00
@rizenhave you tried out webgui's demo so you can see if you even like webgui?00:01
misterslurpeyyeah, i didnt understand how to install the message board.00:01
misterslurpeywell im going to bed.00:05
misterslurpeythanks for the help00:05
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SDuensinGood morning.  Friday at last!15:55
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+Radix_Friday sucked.. friday night is pretty good so far tho ;)16:03
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+MrHairgreaseawake already?16:40
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SDuensinIt's too early to be awake, MrHairgrease.16:54
* MrHairgrease mumbles something about lazy americans16:55
SDuensinYea.  We suck.16:55
+MrHairgreasei know =)16:55
@rizeni resemble that remark17:02
@rizencan't a guy check his email and stuff before answering irc?17:03
* SDuensin loads Adium, XChat, and THEN Mail.17:03
+MrHairgreasewhat's the use of the cookieTTL setting?17:03
+MrHairgreaseit can interfere with the sessionTimeout setting17:03
@rizenin most cases there isn't a use for it17:04
@rizenbut on some sites that do wierd single sign on stuff17:04
@rizenit isn't enough to just have the session time out17:04
@rizenthey also need the cookie to go away17:04
+MrHairgreasethe thing is17:04
@rizenotherwise people can still access the external apps17:04
+MrHairgreaseshould the cookie go away when the session times out17:04
+MrHairgreasei know a guy who set both to 1h17:05
+MrHairgreasebut the cookie ttl ismn't update on a page view17:05
+MrHairgreaseso people get logged out after an hour period17:05
@rizenthat's how it's supposed to work17:05
+MrHairgreasean hour after their first pageview that is17:05
+MrHairgreasei was just checking17:06
@rizensession length is only controlled by session time out17:06
@rizennot cookie ttl17:06
@rizenonly use cookie ttl if you have a need for it17:06
@rizenwhich most people don't17:06
@rizenif you could controll the killing of the cookie reliably17:07
@rizenthen we could probably tie session timeout to cookie ttl17:08
@rizenbut i've found that it's not very reliable depending upon browser17:08
@rizenIE is the bane of my existence17:08
+MrHairgreasei know17:09
+MrHairgreasewe're in the same boat17:09
SDuensinIt's a big boat.17:12
+MrHairgreaseanybody know how i can get webgui to put $self->session->errorHandler->info messages in the log?17:29
@preactioni believe in WebGUI/etc/log.conf, change the loglevel to info17:35
@preactioner.. looks like change log4perl.logger = INFO, mainlog17:35
+MrHairgreasedoes anybody have an idea what might cause a op=runWorkflow to fail with 400 Bad Request?18:09
@rizendo you have info turn on in your logs? cuz that usually tells you18:10
+MrHairgreaseWORKFLOW: Response for 11EH-Rxg8AtUluclHgZJhg had a communications error. 18:10
@rizenthat looks like the spectre side, not the webgui side18:11
+MrHairgreaseapparently $response->is_error is true18:11
+MrHairgreasebut what can cause that18:11
+MrHairgreasei does connect right?18:12
@preactionanything from the 400-500 field of codes18:12
@rizenif it's not connecting at all18:12
+MrHairgreaseor else no error could be returned anyway18:12
@rizenoh right18:12
@rizenyou'd get a connect timeout18:12
@rizenif it wasn't connecting18:12
+MrHairgreasebut not a 40018:12
@rizenso maybe it's connecting...but not to the site you think it is18:12
@rizeni'd run a curl18:12
+MrHairgreasethat must be it18:13
+MrHairgreasethey prolly messed up their sitenames in the conf18:13
+MrHairgreasei cannot check it out right now18:13
+MrHairgreaseit's happening in some intranet18:13
+MrHairgreasewhich is not accesible from outdie18:13
+MrHairgreasebut maybe i can reqproduce18:14
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+MrHairgreasewg returns 400 for unpriviledged users18:25
@rizenyour webgui maybe18:26
@rizennot my webgui18:26
@rizenyou never know what you lowbrow eurotrash are doing to your webguis18:26
+MrHairgreaseyou don't wanna know18:26
+MrHairgreasebut that can't be it18:27
+MrHairgreaseit's only being called in viewProfile18:27
@rizencould it be a 4400 error?18:28
+MrHairgreasewhat's that18:29
+MrHairgreasedo you mean 404?18:29
@rizenwhere the future abducts your code, and sends it back to the past to prevent you from doing something really bad18:29
+MrHairgreasethat can't be it18:29
+MrHairgreasetimetravel is still in its infancy in the Netherlands18:30
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@preactionwould it break API if I started treating the arguments to WebGUI::User->profileField as a hash (so I can use the exists() function to set profile fields to NULL)?21:06
@preactionor would it work better if i get the length of @_, and if it's greater than 1, set whatever value the second argument is?21:07
@preactionsame effect, really21:08
@rizenare you asking if you can change it from a hash reference to a hash?21:11
@rizenoh wait..it's neither right now21:12
@rizenit's a scalr21:12
@preactionyeah, if i treat it as a hash though, i can use exists. the trouble is that won't work (since the key always exists when you're getting the field), so i'll have to check @_ before shifting the field name21:17
@preactionso if (@_ > 1) { $setField = 1; } $field = shift; $value = shift; if ($setField) { # save $value } 21:18
@preactionbut, how much do you think people relied on the fact that you cannot use profileField() to set a field to NULL?21:18
@rizenquite regularly21:18
@rizenyou can't do what you're saying21:18
@rizenoh wait...let me think about that for a sec21:19
@rizenthey use it to set empty21:19
@rizeni don't know if they use it to set null21:19
@rizenok...let me give you my answer in the form of a test21:20
@rizenif after the change i can set "firstName" to empty21:20
@preactionyou can set "" no problem, but not NULL. for some reason the Alumni code i've been changing to the new system does a raw db call to delete the entire entry (instead of just setting to "")21:20
@rizenthen we're good21:20
@rizenoops..wwrong window21:20
@preactionafter the change, yes, you'll still be able to set to ""21:21
@preactionat least, i'll do some research on placeholders, but i believe NULL only gets used when undef, not when false21:21
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jamestolleyhello? MrHairgrease? I'm in need of some _expert_ SQLForms help!00:44
@preactionjamestolley: did you register your nick w/ nickserv? i can't put you on the auto-op list until you do00:47
@preactionbeg pardon?00:56
jamestolleyanyone here?01:06
@preactionapparently nobody besides me01:07
* MrHairgrease is back01:13
+MrHairgreasewhat's the problem?01:13
+MrHairgreasei got your email01:14
+MrHairgreasei'll mail you back01:14
+MrHairgreasejames has email01:20
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SDuensinGood morning!16:30
xdangerwau, new rambo trailer =D http://www.aintitcool.com/node/3272116:32
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--- Log closed Mon May 21 19:52:51 2007
--- Log opened Tue May 22 11:44:04 2007
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pjesigreetings SDuensin!16:16
SDuensinHey pjesi 16:17
pjesiI had some complains about the pages being cached too much in the browser16:19
pjesi(clients forced to use ctrl f5 to see changes)16:20
pjesihas this something to do with the stuff that webgui puts in the <head>?16:21
SDuensinYou running the latest WebGUI?  I don't seem to have that problem.16:23
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pjesithe guy reporting the problem did not either, actually it is 7.3.1216:27
SDuensinSorry - was AFK16:58
SDuensinDoes he have some kind of proxy in the way?  Maybe it's caching it.16:58
@rizenpjesi...you need to upgrade17:04
@rizenthat was fixed17:04
SDuensinMorning, rizen 17:05
@rizenis it morning already?17:05
pjesirizen: ok thanks17:05
SDuensinUnfortunately, yes, it is.17:06
@rizencrap...that means i missed an entire nights sleep again17:06
@rizenneed to stop that17:06
pjesirizen: was the problem in the HTTP head?17:07
@rizenyeah, it was the way we were dealing with cache headers17:07
pjesiI see17:08
pjesirizen: why does the update script need to be run as root, not the wre user?17:14
pjesiI need to move from .12 to .17 but the sysadmin is an ass :)17:15
@rizenit doesn't need to be17:16
@rizenthere is an --override option17:16
@rizenif you're going to run the --override option17:17
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@rizenthen you need to be aware that the the upgrade script won't be able to delete your cache or other stuff17:17
@rizenso you should do --skipDelete as well17:17
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mlamarHi guys20:01
mlamarquiet around here :)20:05
SDuensinHas been for a few days.  Guess they're all hard at work!20:05
mlamarah.  I had a question ... are you familiar with the changes to 7.3.17?20:06
SDuensinNot really.  I just upgraded and went on my merry way.20:21
@rizeni'm mostly familiar with them20:26
@rizenwhat do you need mlamar?20:26
mlamarI am experiencing a permissions bug in 7.3.16, but I can't replicate it on the demo 20:27
mlamarso I was wondering if it was fixed in 17?20:28
@rizendescribe it20:28
mlamarThe problem is that when certain assets are created they get the default group to edit and group to view20:28
mlamar(Admin and Everyone)20:28
mlamarand cannot be reset20:28
mlamarI can replicate, but am not yet sure what all the parameters are that cause the bug20:29
@rizencan you define "certain assets"20:29
mlamarI think it happens only under an existing version tag -- not when creating a new version20:29
mlamarI've replicated it with File, Wiki and Article, so I don't think it's the asset type20:30
@rizenand you're sure that the parent of those assets doesn't have those privs?20:30
mlamarI think it has to do with versioning20:30
mlamaryes positive20:30
mlamarin fact when I create the object it looks like it has the right privs20:30
mlamarbut when I go edit it after creation, they are set to the defaults20:30
@rizeninteresting. and you say you can't replicate this on demo?20:31
mlamarif you don't think you've fixed it, we'll try upgrading on one of our dev boxes and see if it fixes it20:31
mlamaryes, I can't replicate on demo, so I don't know if 17 fixed it, or if something about the demo environment is preventing it20:32
mlamarI can replicate it on server39 if you want to see it20:32
@rizenthe only thing i can think of that may have an impact on that is this change from 7.3.17: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision/?rev=408220:33
mlamarwhich is www.csumathsuccess.org20:33
@rizeni didn't fix the bug, Haarg did20:33
@rizenHaarg, are you here? 20:33
@rizendo you remember the bug fix listed above20:34
@rizenwill that fix the problem mlamar is discribing20:34
@Haargi think so20:35
@rizenthere you go michele20:36
mlamarok, I'll try the upgrade and let you know if it doesn't fix it.20:36
@Haargit was previously rejecting setting the group to any group with a old style id20:36
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ckotilwhen an email is sent out to a group, will one also be sent to those users who belong to a group of a group?22:33
@rizendepends upon how it was sent, but in most circumstances, yes22:34
ckotili assumed it would.22:37
ckotilim trying to hack up the request approval for version tag activity so that i can send out a single email to an address. rather than send an individual email to each user.22:39
ckotili COULD set everyones email to the list, but i cant guarentee the list can handle all that email22:39
ckotilive been absolutely swamped here at work.22:39
ckotilspent half the day today setting up nagios configs22:40
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@rizengood news peeps01:51
@rizenwe'll be branching for 7.4 tomorrow01:51
@rizenafter 7.3.18 is released01:51
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@rizeni can't wait02:10
@rizeni'm so happy we're finally going to get to start working on 7.402:10
SDuensinI'm happy, too!02:15
SDuensinI believe I saw "new commerce system" and "PayPal" on the roadmap.  :-)02:15
@rizennot for 7.402:15
SDuensinHmmm.  Nuts.02:15
@rizenthe roadmap needs to be updated02:15
SDuensinI'd settle for an old commerce system and PayPal.  :-)02:16
@rizenunfortunately the old ecommerce system and paypal aren't compatible02:16
@rizenotherwise it would already be there02:16
@rizenthat's part of the reason for a rewrite02:17
@rizencuz i want paypal there too02:17
@rizenso bad i can taste it02:17
SDuensinPayPal was kinda weird last time I looked at the API.02:17
@rizenthe current ecommerce system is designed for traditional "back-end" cc processors02:17
@rizenwhere we provide the ui02:18
@rizenand just pass the info along to the processor02:18
@rizenpaypal requires that you use their front end02:18
@rizenso that's the problem02:18
@rizenthe commerce system doesn't know how to hand off the transaction to paypals front end02:18
@rizenit can only do backend processors02:18
SDuensinI thought they had an API that you could completely bypass their site?02:18
@rizenthey recently bought out payflowpro so i don't know what that adds02:19
@rizenbut no, their original api just allowed you to integrate with their front end02:19
@rizenit didn't allow you to bypass it02:19
SDuensinPayWhoHuh?  Man.  I should read those developer notes they mail out.  :-)02:19
@rizenbesides...even if i could do it now02:20
@rizeni wouldn't02:20
@rizencuz then i'd just have to redo it after i redo the commerce systemm02:21
@rizencuz that's not all that needs to be changed02:21
@rizenwe also need to add in support for taxes02:21
@rizenwe need to be able to do arbitrary settlements (like donate whatever you feel like it)02:21
@rizenwe need to do ad-hoc products sales (combos, bundles, configure and buy, etc02:22
@rizenand we need the commerce system to be able to talk back to assets02:22
SDuensinYou're not kidding about an overhaul.02:22
@rizenso that you can create a custom asset for some commerce function02:22
@rizenyup it's a biggie02:23
@rizenoh, and finally we need to merge the product asset with the product manager02:23
@rizenit's stupid that we have two02:23
@rizenthat's my fault02:23
@rizeni'm not saying necessarily that all those features need to be added right away02:24
@rizenbut we at least need the hooks for them02:24
@rizenso that they can be added02:24
@rizenand currently they can't02:24
@rizeneven adding the hooks is major surgery02:24
SDuensinI hear that.  I have a database editor I'm writing that is undergoing major surgery at the moment.  It's hell.02:25
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+Radix-wrkrizen: what was the perl book you recommended to me/others a while back for getting started with perl?03:53
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@rizenthe little black perl book10:39
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SDuensinGood morning.16:47
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@rizengood afternoon17:06
* SDuensin thinks rizen needs a new watch.17:07
xdangeror he's in europa17:08
AMH_bobAnd yes, it's a decent 4pm here!17:11
AMH_bobGoedemiddag == Good afternoon17:11
@rizeni can almost see it in there " good mid day"17:13
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ckotilwill .18 see the light today?19:08
ckotilhow big is the plainblack.com instanct of webgui all tar'd up?19:55
ckotilmine just shot up to 2 gigs19:56
ckotilbc of this new file repository.19:56
ckotilseems the windows xp iso has some revision entries, for some odd reason.19:57
SDuensinXP ISO?  Why on earth would you want to save that?  :-)19:57
ckotilits corp. edition19:58
ckotiland theres a key w/ it.19:58
ckotiljust in case anyone needs to burn a copy19:58
SDuensinYea, but man, it's still Windows.  :-P19:58
ckotilsome of my users expressed interest in it19:59
ckotilso heres the wierd thing. when i was backing up, i saw the iso appear at elast twice .19:59
SDuensinAh, well, that makes it a training issue.  :-)19:59
ckotiland there are no revisions for it.19:59
ckotilWebGUI.Backup.5.23.07.tar.gz                                                                100% 1923MB  18.1MB/s   01:46  19:59
SDuensinThat looks like my good friend NCFTP!20:00
ckotilscp ;)20:00
SDuensinI've been doing all my backups with BackupPC lately.  Cool program.20:01
ckotilya, i remember you saying that.20:01
ckotili use retrospect20:01
ckotilbc it does mac, pc, and linux20:01
SDuensinFunny, that's why I use BackupPC.  :-D20:01
ckotilhows the reporting/monitoring of backupPC?20:02
ckotilretrospect is pretty damn cryptic20:03
SDuensinI wish it had more "in progress" information so you knew how far along it was, but otherwise it's really nice.20:03
ckotilretrospect is the opposite, it tells you abaout EVERY minor thing.20:03
ckotilfor instance, if a file changes sizes when the backup starts on it from the time it finishes. thats an error.20:04
ckotilusually happens to log or cache files20:04
ckotilit looks nice.20:05
ckotilbackupPC that is20:05
SDuensinYea.  I like it.20:19
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cap10morganI have a wobject that is based on DataForm, but when I create prototypes of them, the fields in the form aren't preserved (i.e. it starts w/ the default fields regardless of what were added/removed in the prototype)21:05
cap10morganis there some API i need to use to make sure that stuff gets carried over when prototyped?21:06
@rizenyou can't prototype collateral data21:06
@rizenonly the basic asset properties21:07
cap10morganoh, bummer...21:08
cap10morganmaybe i should just make a parent class and then subclass the different types i need then as separate wobjects21:09
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+perlDreamerhey, folks!21:12
+perlDreamerI see the channel is still hopping.21:16
@rizenit's a little busier in the mornings it seems21:19
@rizenhell in a handbasket'21:22
+perlDreamerwhat's up?21:22
+perlDreamerrelease problems?21:22
@rizeni was just thinking that since i'm due to leave in 3 hours and going to be gone for 1 week21:22
@rizenright about now is the time for something to go to hell in a handbasket21:22
+perlDreamerDo you want something specific to happen, or just something in general?21:23
@rizenhopefully nothing happens21:23
@rizeni want nothing to happen21:23
+perlDreamerI'll do what I can if there's a problem, and swear, affirm and avow not to cause any problems above and beyond what I normally do through incompetence and stubbornness.21:25
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-!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.18 | WRE 0.7.2 ] - Let 7.4 dev begin!21:52
+perlDreamerTime to merge tonight!21:52
@rizencolin...(or anybody) do you know how to merge a file from one branch into another? is it as simple as just doing a copy?21:57
@preactionit's probably a matter of diff and patch22:15
ckotilw00t. 7.3.1822:15
@rizenno what i mean is that there's a file in one branch22:19
@rizenthat doesn't exist in the other22:19
@rizenso i just want to copy it over there22:19
ckotilpd: thanks for  fixing that bug with the synopsis inheritance. that was killing my users acceptance of the file repository22:21
@preactionoh, a straight copy will suffice with that22:26
+perlDreamerrizen: merging in general http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn.branchmerge.copychanges.html23:34
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+perlDreamerckotil: wake up!23:38
+perlDreamerI've looked through the folder code, and don't see a way to "leak" the synopsis into a folder23:50
+perlDreamerHow about checking the asset properties for those folders to see if they have the same synopsis as the parent?23:50
ckotilsure thing.23:50
ckotilOK, right now i have a parent folder asset, and 2 children folder assets along with many children file assets.23:51
ckotilnone of them have meta data summaries23:51
ckotilill add a meta data summary to the parent23:52
ckotilit appears in the summary of the children folder assets23:52
ckotiland doesnt even appear in the summary of the parent, when i view it as the child of a parent folder asset.23:53
ckotilkinda seems like the template is looking one level too high for the synopsis23:53
+perlDreamerFolders do not display summaries :)23:53
ckotilthe children are displaying the summary forthe parent.23:54
ckotilit'd be nice for the folder to display its meta data summary so that, it could read 'file type XXX belongs in here'23:55
+perlDreamerthat would be an RFE23:56
+perlDreamerare you running 7.3.18?23:56
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+perlDreamerwhat does line 191 look like in lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm ?23:57
+perlDreamerrestart the webserver, flush the cache?23:57
+perlDreamerI tested this fix pretty carefully23:57
ckotilsynopsis=>$child->get("synopsis") || '',23:58
ckotilyes, i did it all.23:58
ckotilthe fix works. just that folder assets still inherit the parents summary23:58
ckotilat least if the parent is another folder asset23:58
--- Day changed Thu May 24 2007
ckotilprior to the fix all assets would inherit the summary.00:00
+perlDreamerDid you see the thread on the dev list about this?00:00
+perlDreamerPlease give it a quick read.00:00
+perlDreamerrizen wanted it to behave the way that it originally did.00:00
+perlDreamerwhere children would "show", but not have, the parent's synopsis00:01
ckotiloh i guess i did 00:01
+perlDreamerNow, folders are different00:01
+perlDreamerthe subfolder template loop does not define any synopsis variable, so it inherits the one from the parent.00:01
ckotili think there should be a checkbox that says inherit parent synopsis? 00:02
ckotilok, so i need to hack up my instance more, and add the synopsis variable?00:02
+perlDreamereither that, or just remove it from the template00:02
+perlDreamerrizen can decide if this is an RFE or a bug00:03
ckotilheh that reminds me, after upgrading today theres a lot of changes i gotta make.00:03
+perlDreamerhow come?00:03
ckotilwell i need it in the template, this is for my file repository00:03
ckotilits good to have meta data00:03
@rizenthere will be no switches, period00:03
ckotilmy webgui instance is becoming very customized.00:03
ckotilso every upgrade i gotta make the change again00:03
@rizenas i described on the dev list00:03
ckotilya ya.00:03
ckotilthats fine.00:04
@rizenif you want a variable00:04
@rizento come through the loop00:04
@rizenthen either the variable in the loop with the same name00:04
@rizenor the outside variable00:04
@rizenhas to be renamed00:04
@rizenthat's it00:04
@rizenthat's the only valid solution00:04
+perlDreamerthe subfolder loop doesn't define a synopsis variable for child folders00:04
+perlDreamerwould that be a bug or an RFE?00:04
@rizenit's a new feature00:04
+perlDreamernote that the default template does call one out.00:05
@rizenjust cuz it doesn't do something you want it to do doesn't make it a bug00:05
@rizenok, allow me to rephrase.00:05
@rizenthis is so insiginificant in the greater scheme of things that i wish not to be bothered by it...do what you want00:05
ckotilthanks anyway00:06
@rizennote that i'm not angry at either of you, just short on time, and could care less about something this small00:08
ckotilof course.00:10
ckotilwe knew that00:10
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@preactionwhat would the consequences be if I added another index to the webgui core? adding an index on the userId column of groupings has drastically improved an expensive query against that table01:18
@rizenno consequences as long as you don't name your index the same as i name indexes01:19
@rizenall indexes in the core are named field1_field2_field301:19
@rizenfield names separated by underscores01:19
@rizenoh wait01:19
@rizenare you saying adding this to the webgui core01:19
@rizenor to this one app?01:20
@rizenisn't this query only used by one custom app for one client?01:20
@rizenif so, wouldn't it make more sense to just add the index for them01:20
@rizencalled it client_field1_field2_field301:20
@rizenalter table add index client_field1_field2_field3 (field1, field2, field3);01:21
@preactionit's the contact info tool on the alumni site, yes. but any queries which join the groupings table based only on the userId (getting every group the user is in, so later, in the where clause we can limit them) would probably benefit from this01:21
@preactioni suppose though, if it ain't broke don't fix it01:22
@rizenuserId is a primary key01:22
@rizenso it already has it's own index01:22
@rizenoh, but you're saying you want only "userId" in the index an nothing else01:23
@preactionits a dual key with groupId, so only if you're using both will it use the index01:23
@rizenin that case sure add it to the core01:23
@rizenbut that doesn't change the fact that you need it on that client site right now, right?01:23
@preactionright, i already made the change on their site01:24
@rizenbut make sure that y ou don't name it the same on their site01:24
@rizenso that way the upgrade goes smooth01:24
@preactionwhich probably means some finagling to make sure the index doesn't already exist (in case other people had this same idea)01:24
@rizeneither that or check for it's existence01:24
@preactionat any rate, it'll go on my to-do list after the merge of 7.401:24
@preactionhave fun at the wedding01:24
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@preactioni nominate haarg to play the part of rizen while he's away01:25
+perlDreamerHaarg seems to be the strong, silent type.01:26
+perlDreamerWe need someone more vocal for $rizen->clone();01:26
@Haargi don't think i want that job01:27
@preactionperlbot be rizen01:27
perlbot<rizen> WHY USE PEARL!?  C IS FASTAR?!?!?01:27
@preactionhmm... doesn't capture the essense01:27
+perlDreamerperlbot be preaction01:28
perlbot<preaction> WHY USE PEARL!?  C IS FASTAR?!?!?01:28
+perlDreamerI think his needle is stuck01:28
* perlDreamer slaps perlbot with a halibut01:28
+perlDreamerperlbot: wake up, d00d!01:28
@preactionperlbot be perlDreamer 01:28
perlbot<perlDreamer> Hi, can I paste this very long script I downloaded and let you fix it for me plz??01:28
+perlDreamerthat's almost true to form!01:29
@preactionoh, and for the record, mysql performance tuning is more of a pain in the brain than debugging php01:30
+perlDreamertry writing Perl 6...01:35
@preactioni love p6's syntax, i can't wait until it's ready for prime-time01:44
@preactionof course, some have said that parrot is turning into vaporware01:45
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+perlDreamerI've spent about two weeks trying to volunteer to write tests for them01:53
+perlDreamerLarge parts of it are still unspecced01:54
+perlDreamerLarger parts are undocumented01:54
+perlDreamerIt's been frustrating.02:01
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+Radix_Hiya SD16:54
SDuensinHey Radix_ 16:59
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xdangerO joy.. I just didn't notice that webgui's upgrade related backups contain "USE 'webgui_domain_com';" line and was importing that to a different db, and it overwroted to original...17:04
xdangerand, no, I don't have a fresh backup...17:04
xdanger13days old is the newest...17:05
xdanger(I was just testing a new backups)17:05
xdangerThat client isn't going to like me...17:06
xdangerWell one of theis employee isn't =)17:06
xdangerHer job is to type all the info to the site from excel and/or paper forms ;)17:07
xdangerand what did we learn from this... BACKUP, BACKUP and BACKUP17:15
xdangerand backup everything before you do anything with mysql =)17:15
+Radix_I do four hourly backups at work :)17:17
+Radix_make a complete tar.gz and sql dump every four hours17:17
+Radix_that's on the machine itself tho - every night the latest one gets stored off on our backup drive which gets mirrored and a copy taken offsite every week17:18
pjesixdanger: welcome to the club17:32
perlmonkey2xdanger, if she is typing info manually from excel/paper, why not give her something to automate that task?17:57
perlmonkey2Perl has a half way decent excel library.17:57
xdangerThey haven't asked... and I belive that they're not willing to pay for it..17:58
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pjesibut then she has nothing to do 18:30
xdangershe's some intern or something...18:32
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ckotila variable of mine when i try to print it, displays this: WebGUI::Inbox::Message=HASH(0xc03821c)21:41
ckotilhow do i get the contents of that hash?21:41
SDuensinSorry ckotil - I'm a Perl n00b.21:59
ckotilme too ;)22:06
@preactionperldoc perldsc or perldoc perlref (that's an object)22:13
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SDuensinEasy for him to say.22:14
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xdangeruse the Data::Dumper luke!22:16
xdanger(my favorite debuggin tool ;))22:17
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+perlDreamerckotil, what you're getting is a hash reference.23:09
+perlDreamerthat is an object23:09
+perlDreamerso, you could try dereferencing it23:09
+perlDreamer$session->errorHandler->warn( Data::Dumper $ckotil_hash_ref);23:09
@preactionalso may want to read the docs on WebGUI::Inbox::Mail to see what methods you can run on it23:21
@preactioncd /data/WebGUI/lib; perldoc WebGUI::Inbox::Mail; # <-- will suffice if you don't want the pesky code to get in the way23:22
@preactionJT says that soon the WRE will provide a mechanism to browse the perldoc for WebGUI in HTML, so I hope he gets working on that23:22
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--- Day changed Fri May 25 2007
+perlDreamerpreaction: that would be pretty easy to do00:37
+perlDreamerjust configure a passThruUrl for a dir in the root00:37
+perlDreamerthen run podToHtml on the core and dump it in there00:37
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@preactioni RFE'd that and JT said no00:48
@preactionbecause he's going to make that WRE module00:49
@preactionit's only like 50-100k of docs, but anyway00:49
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xdangerIs the "timed" content feature been removed from webgui?04:55
xdangerthat it displays some asset only between startDate and endDate?04:56
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+Radix-wrkyeah, that got removed in the upgrade to WG7 I think04:57
xdangerdamn... that would be a nice feature for my next project...05:08
+Radix-wrkYou could probably write a workflow to do much the same05:08
xdangerIt wouldn't be that hard to add... Just add a colum to assetData and run a workflow against that05:09
xdangerSomething like Archive on date functionality05:09
+Radix-wrkyou could use asset::creationDate05:10
+Radix-wrkif asset::creationDate > xxx move asset to archived portion of the nav tree or something05:11
+Radix-wrkJust have to be really careful with the stock webgui assets and templates, as you probably don't want to remove them05:12
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wgGuest70Hey guys05:15
wgGuest70Does anyone know if Powweb supports WebGui?05:16
+Radix-wrkNo idead05:19
+Radix-wrkYou could ask them, but I think you'll find most hosting accounts don't support webgui unless you can install your own perl libraries and have full shell access05:21
wgGuest70so, in most instances, its limited strictly to dedicated servers?05:34
+Radix-wrkor hosting servers where you can either install your own perl libraries or get the admins to do it for you.  There are also a number of webgui hosting providers too, including plainblack themselves05:39
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nubaheh i remember my first webgui install on a remote site06:18
nubausing cgitelnet.pl06:18
nubacause there was no shell 06:19
nubato install missing modules on the server, i had to install them in a machine i had with the same architecture and kernel and perl, then upload inside webgui's lib06:20
nubacause i just couldn't find a way to run cpan with cgitelnet06:21
nubabesides, i knew little of perl or *nix by then06:21
nubathat was webgui 5.x06:21
nubathats not something you can do with the 7.x on a cheapo hosting plan with no shell etc06:22
+Radix-wrkyeah, you could get that working without mod-perl in those days.. now you need mod-perl/apache2/mysql5, etc..06:22
nubalots of stuff in the apache config now06:22
nubalots of reqs06:23
nubathen, my second webgui install, in a local machine, i was in heaven06:24
nubait was all so simple, so easy to figure it out06:24
+Radix-wrkI first started with 5.x myself..06:24
nubado you have the expression 'donkey in the living room' in the US ?06:25
nubawe have something like that here06:25
+Radix-wrkbull in a china shop?06:25
+Radix-wrkI'm not from the US btw :)06:25
nubathats how it was, installing webgui in a local machine, after suffering for days on a remote server with no shell06:25
+Radix-wrkI bet :)06:26
nubawell the saying its for when you get a difficult situation, add something to make it even worse, then later you remove that something, and the first situation now all of a sudden looks much nicer06:26
+Radix-wrkI was in heaven after I discovered the WRE personally :)06:27
+Radix-wrkI'd been hacking it up with debian and apt-get'ing some perl packages and using cpan for the rest previously.. was a nightmare06:28
nubawell once i got the gist of it, it was easy06:28
nubaactually i had to go thru a lot, read a lot, experiment, look at the code, the database, etc..06:28
nubathen at some point i told my boss: i cant take no more, please buy the 'rulling webgui' ebook06:29
nubahe did it, then soon i realized it was too late, i had already learned all the stuff on the ebook, the hard way06:29
+Radix-wrkI managed to get my boss to get a support contract06:30
+Radix-wrksorry.. was afk06:42
+Radix-wrkI learnt heaps once I sat reading everyone's support questions and the answers06:43
nubai did something like that too06:45
nubaread everything in the public support forums06:45
nuba'till the last page06:46
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nuba'night folks07:42
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AMH_bobGood morning!15:44
SDuensinGood morning!15:48
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ckotilbah. snmpd that ships with osx server + the xserve doesnt work. Thanks APPLE!17:22
ckotil:x had a bunk config17:28
SDuensinProbably works with other Macs.17:32
AMH_bobI gave up on doing non-apple/non-adobe stuff on a mac. Trying to use Mac OS X Server version 10.2.8 as webserver was a big wake-up call.... 17:37
SDuensinHmm - not had problems with Apache on a Mac.17:42
AMH_bobIt wasn't really apache that was the problem.... but the GUI's from Apple an the 'special'scripts that 'repaired' configurations at startup17:44
SDuensinOh yea.  Well, I don't have OS X Server, so I don't have those tools.17:45
AMH_bobI ended up having to do everything with the commandline... after doing that for three years I moved to Linux :P17:45
SDuensinI went the other way.  I treat OS X like I used to do Linux.  :-)17:46
AMH_bobDon't get me wrong, I love my Mac and will keep one at home because it is without doubt the best desktop computer in the world.17:47
AMH_bobBut for what I'm doing professionally, I preffer Linux17:47
SDuensinWell, my WebGUI is running on CentOS, but I do all my dev for it on my Mac with Coda.17:48
AMH_bobCoda, don't know that one - the program from panic? (Googled it)17:49
SDuensinI do my templates and stuff in it.17:50
AMH_bobLooks good, I'll check that out!!!17:50
AMH_bobI really love TextMate on the Mac - too bad that they won't make that for Linux17:50
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* SDuensin is back!18:27
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+perlDreamerfair warning to y'all.07:18
+perlDreamerI just merged a ton of pending 7.4 stuff07:18
+perlDreamerckotil: a couple of your RFEs included07:19
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+perlDreamerperlbot: seen preaction06:24
+perlDreamerperlbot: help06:24
perlbot(fact) : tell (who) about (what) : (what) > (who) : learn (what) as (info) : relearn (fact) as (info) : phone (phone #) : shorten (url) : shorten it : search (keyword) : cpan (module) : docs (module) : perldoc -f (function) : jargon (term) : math (expr): fortune : flip : host (type) (record) : rot13 (text) : roll (die) : tempconv (temp) : scramble (foo) : 8ball (question) : slap (who) : diss (who) : top/bottom (number) karma : geoip (ip)06:24
+perlDreamerpreaction: when the calendar creates the date for the end of the month, it adds 1 month to the start of the month.06:26
+perlDreamerwhy not 1 month - 1 second?06:26
@preactionit was changed because 1 month - 1 second seemed to not work06:27
+perlDreamerI'd like to ask why, but let me explain why I asked first06:27
+perlDreamerI'm working on the Calendar bug from Graham, about events that span months06:27
+perlDreamerthey only show up on the second month06:27
+perlDreamerthat's because when they span, they're assigned the end date06:28
+perlDreamerwhich is in the next month06:28
+perlDreamerwhich has a day of month of 006:28
+perlDreamerso in the final loop in the viewMonth, it goes from day_of_month_0(start date) .. 006:28
+perlDreamerwhich doesn't run since the range is backwards06:28
+perlDreamerHow didn't 1month- 1 second not work?06:29
@preactiondidn't we fix this by using rata die instead of day_of_month?06:29
@preactionor the julian date or something similar?06:29
+perlDreamerNo, we fixed it a completely different way06:30
+perlDreamerif the end date of a returned event is after the end date of the window, it gets assigned to the window.06:30
@preactionand if the startdate is before the startdate of the window?06:30
@preactionso that fix isn't working?06:31
+perlDreamerit works fine, aside from the bug mentioned above06:31
@preactionand now i don't even remember why i changed it, i think it was something to do with the week view and the events that span weeks not working correctly06:32
+perlDreamerah, now I did look at the week view06:33
+perlDreamerit uses  +7 days - 1 second06:33
@preactionor events that occur on the last day of the month not working correctly06:33
+perlDreamerWe need a testing package for the Calendar with all these corner cases already set up.06:34
+perlDreamerI can check the logs for the Calendar, would that help?06:35
+perlDreamerMaybe I should leave it for the professionals to fix :)06:35
@preactionyeah, i'm taking a day tomorrow and a day monday to get the 7.4 prebranch stuff in, i'll add some calendar unit testing to my list06:35
+perlDreamerokay, I'll add to the bug what I've found, just for tracking purposes.06:38
+perlDreamerWhat kind of stuff are you going to check in?06:38
@preactionnew user profile system that uses a normalized table06:39
@preactionthe fix to the calendar for event permissions06:39
@preactioni think the paginator got some new stuff06:39
+perlDreamerI just checked in some stuff for 7.4 for the Paginator.06:39
+perlDreamerOptimizations and refactoring06:39
+perlDreamerI hope it doesn't make merging a headache for you.06:41
@preactioneh, it should all be fine. i saved my changes as a patch, but there are a few changes that are the complete files i'll have to make my own patches06:43
+perlDreamerCan you tell me a little about the normalization for the user profile?  How is it normalized?06:45
@preactionone column per user profile field06:47
@preactioninstead of doing the crap fieldName, fieldData06:47
+perlDreamerso, basically folding multiple rows into multiple columns?06:48
+perlDreamerThat should make outside queries much easier.  How is it on performance?06:49
@preactioninsanely better06:49
+perlDreamerSweet! Do the user tests still pass?06:49
@preactiondidn't check the tests, no06:49
@preactionthat goes on the list06:49
+perlDreamerThanks, man.06:49
+perlDreamerThey're probably fine.06:50
@preactionif they do any raw queries of the userProfileData table, then they're going to fail06:50
+perlDreamerwell, in that case they're going to fail.  There are 3 queries against that table.  But they're easy enough to fix.06:51
+perlDreamerI miss the smoke tests06:53
@preactionyeah... i don't know what's up06:54
+perlDreamerJT said he'd look at it, but I know he's busy with training people.06:55
+perlDreamerFirst Nik, then James06:55
+perlDreamerplus, he's in Mexico now06:55
@preactionthe lucky git06:55
+perlDreamerYou going to take some time off this summer, or are you slammed?06:55
@preactioni'm training james now on the alumni project, hopefully when he's up to speed we can switch off doing other things06:56
@preactionlike vacations or even just some core dev06:56
@preactionthat's of course if james can hack it, it's difficult to train some people in advanced programming techniques when they don't really know their way around the shell06:57
+perlDreamerno shell?06:57
+perlDreamerWindows guy?06:57
@preactionhe's a windows guy06:57
@preactionso minimal *nix shell experience06:58
+perlDreamerI thought that slot was all sys-admin/support work with scripting.06:58
+perlDreamerHow can he do that with no Unix experience?06:58
+perlDreamernever mind, I'm over the line.06:59
@preactionno, i think graham took that spot06:59
@preactionand i have a feeling that i'll be stepping up into that more as well06:59
+perlDreameroy, like you need more to do.07:00
@preactionwe've got more contracts and such so i imagine james will be added to the client work roster with me07:00
@preactioneh, i already handle the trouble calls, and with JT in mexico i get to set my own policy07:01
@preactionassuming, of course, i can defend it when he gets back ;)07:01
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+Radix-wrkAnyone know if webgui will run on a dedicated server with as little as 256mb ram?06:30
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sstanviranybody home ?11:10
sstanvirdo u know about default login template of webGUI ?11:25
sstanviractually I need to change the style template11:25
sstanvirbut I can't find that11:26
+Radix-wrkgo to Assets View in admin console11:26
+Radix-wrkthen go to Root11:26
sstanviri found the Auth/WebGUI/Login11:27
+Radix-wrkImport Node->Templates11:27
+Radix-wrkif you're using the ^L macro in your style then you're using a different one than that11:27
+Radix-wrklook at Macro/L_loginBox11:27
sstanvirsorry, didnt get ur point11:28
+Radix-wrkmost styles I've come across use the ^L() macro with PBtmpl000000000000009211:28
sstanvir Macro/L_loginBox is a folder that has two template11:29
sstanvirhorizontal login box and default login box11:29
+Radix-wrkyeah, Horizontal Login Box is the most common one I've found11:29
+Radix-wrkthat one is AssetID PBtmpl000000000000009211:30
sstanvirso, I want to change the page layout, color etc of login page .....11:31
+Radix-wrkOh.. ok.. well that's slightly different then11:31
+Radix-wrkthat macro is generally what is used to display the login box on each page11:31
+Radix-wrkIf you want to set the style of the template itself you set it in Admin Console->Settings->Authentication11:33
+Radix-wrkand at the bottom there you can pick your Login template11:33
sstanvirlogin page has the "Default WebGUI Login Template" 11:33
sstanvirproblem is ,, this is the inner part of the page.. 11:34
sstanvirnot the outer part.. i mean this template doesn't define the style.. 11:34
+Radix-wrkit uses whatever your User Function Style is set to I think11:34
+Radix-wrkwhich is in Admin Console->Settings->UI11:34
sstanvirlet me try then11:35
sstanvirman, you are great !11:35
+Radix-wrkglad to help :)11:35
sstanvirthank you so much..11:36
+Radix-wrkDo itashimashite :)11:36
sstanvirbtw.. i want to buy u a drink ;)11:36
sstanvirby any chance, if u come to this part of the world let me know 11:40
+Radix-wrksounds like a plan!11:46
+Radix-wrkI do hope to get back to japan some day, loved it when I was there last time! :)11:46
+Radix-wrkOff home now.. bye! :)11:49
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-!- sstanvir [n=Tanvir@s208148.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"]13:43
--- Log closed Mon May 28 16:39:41 2007

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