WebGUI irc logs from: 2007-06.log

--- Log opened Thu Jun 07 17:51:11 2007
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wgGuest39i need help23:51
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ckotilany reason why I cant return www_managePendingVersions() instead of www_manageVersions() at the end of www_approveVersionTag() ? it takes me to the adminOnly() screen...and im admin. any ideas?02:01
ckotilim working in Operations/ VersionTag.pm02:02
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+perlDreamerUsing WebGUI::Form, how do you change the text shown in a button from Save to something else?07:16
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pjesiI finally managed to figure out what got fubar after updating to .1813:37
pjesithe CS table has not been migrated13:39
pjesiso SQL statements fails13:39
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SDuensinHi ckotil & AMH_bob 16:40
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AMH_bobGood morning!16:53
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+perlDreamerHey, folks20:28
SDuensinHey perlDreamer 20:30
+perlDreamerI've been buried in chips.  Anything cool happening out here?20:32
SDuensinNot that I've noticed.  :-/20:34
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@rizenI'm socially retarded22:38
* SDuensin chuckles22:38
+perlDreamerHow do you figure?22:41
@rizenyou tell me, i'm the retarded one22:42
+perlDreamerI'm no better22:42
SDuensinYou're both nuts.22:43
+perlDreamerBesides, you're part geek, and it's just part of the package22:44
+perlDreamerAnd, of course, we have to be extra patient with java-hacking geeks22:44
SDuensinYea!  Those lamers!22:45
@rizenone of these days colin, pow! straight to the moon.22:45
* SDuensin has been in C++ and Lua lately.22:45
@rizensduensin needs to be studying perl and yui so he can make webgui desktop22:46
+perlDreamerAbandon you're java follies and stay on the true path!22:46
+perlDreamerThere is no J in LAMP22:46
SDuensinUnfortunately, there is no LAMP at WORK.22:46
* perlDreamer notes that there is no P in WORK22:47
@rizenstep 1: become bruce wayne wealthy22:47
@rizenstep 2: build webgui desktop in your newfound free time22:47
SDuensinTell ya what.  You provide #1 and I'll gladly do #2.22:48
+perlDreamerala Mark Shuttleworth22:48
+perlDreamersee, we even know the strategy works22:48
+perlDreamerrizen: feel like helping me close some bugs?  Do  you have time?22:49
@rizeni neither feel like it nor have the time for it, or i'd be doing it myself...but if you pose questions i'll do my best to respond with something that simulates an answer22:51
+perlDreamerIs it a bug if there someone sets the user session timeout to 0?  This causes people to be automatically logged out after logging in.22:52
@rizenso is your question, if they are an idiot, should we let them be, or should we protect them from themselves?22:54
+perlDreamerYes :)   I'm leaning toward letting them shoot themselves, and suggesting they put in an rfe for a 15 minute minimum.22:55
@rizenrfe it is22:57
+perlDreamerNext one. When a package is deployed, hidden assets become visible.  Is this by design, or is it a bug?23:00
@rizenyung is already working on that one23:01
+perlDreamerHow about the byte ordering problem with the Poll and Storable?23:02
@rizenno idea what you're talking about23:07
+perlDreamerA user switched from a G4 to an Intel Xserve, both running OS X.  Storable started complaining about byte ordering inside of the Poll, relating to the Graph module.23:08
@rizenthat's a problem with Storable23:12
@rizennothing we can do about it23:12
@rizenit's a known issue with using storable. the only option we would have is to switch everybody to using some text based serialization system rather than a binary one like storable23:13
+perlDreamerLike JSON, YAML or Dumper.23:13
+perlDreamerAnd we use Storable all over the place.23:14
* SDuensin likes JSON.23:15
+perlDreamerIt does mean that WebGUI packages are not cross platform.23:16
+perlDreamerPolls, Events, SQLForms, SyndicatedContent, WSClient all use Storable.23:17
@rizenPackages don't use storable23:17
@rizenthey use json23:17
@rizenfor that very reason23:17
+perlDreamerSome of the Assets store Storable blobs in the db.23:19
@rizenfine, but that doesn't mean the package system is compromised23:23
@rizenit means those assets are23:23
+perlDreamerright, only packages with assets that store stuff in the db are not portable.23:24
+perlDreamerSo far, that only appears to be the Poll23:24
@rizenyou should kick mrhairgrease in the nutz for that one23:25
SDuensinCan't you just patch Storable?23:26
@rizencan't you just tell a 32bit system to be a 64 bit system23:30
SDuensinYou can, but it'll just giggle.23:31
@rizenthen you understand why you can't patch storable23:31
SDuensinperlDreamer said it was an endian problem.  Not a data size problem.23:31
SDuensinBig difference.  :-)23:32
@rizeni'm not saying it's a 32 bit vs 64 bit problem23:32
@rizeni'm saying it's an architecture problem23:32
@rizenit's not something that can be fixed23:32
@rizenit's simply the difference between two platforms23:32
SDuensinSounds like Storable is kinda crappy.  :-)23:33
+perlDreamerNot crappy, just not portable.23:35
SDuensinNot portable IS crappy!23:35
* SDuensin is Mr. Portable.23:35
@rizenno, sduensin is mr potable23:36
* SDuensin suppresses rude comments about rizen "drinking" him.23:36
@rizenyou like things to be drinkable, don't you?23:36
SDuensinYes.  And when my C++ compiler comes out later tonight, I *WILL* be drinking.  :-)23:37
SDuensinOK, it's weekend time!  Later all!23:47
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+perlDreamerYou still buried, rizen?23:59
--- Day changed Sat Jun 09 2007
@rizenalways man00:00
@rizenit's what happens when you try to grow a company into an empire00:02
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+perlDreamerwhoa, a perlbot01:01
+perlDreamerrizen: in the Image asset, why does setSize take the greater of the extra input or the file?01:40
+perlDreamer my $size = ($input > $storage->getFileSize($self->get("filename"))) ? $input : $storage->getFileSize($self->get("filename"));01:40
+perlDreamerIt's really old, rev 3 code01:41
@rizeni believe it's because input is always zero unless it is bigger01:42
@rizenso it's a non zero test01:42
+perlDreamerI've been working on SDuensin's file sizing bug (assets report the wrong size after commit).  That method is causing the bug.  I tested discarding the one from Image and inheriting from File and it works fine.01:47
+perlDreamerDo you see anything I should be wary of?01:47
@rizensounds fine01:48
+perlDreamerI'll work on backporting it to 7.3 then.01:48
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+perlDreamercrud.  ++bug02:14
+perlDreamerback to the whiteboard02:14
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cap10morgani have an ubuntu feisty build of the wre to contribute. where do i upload that again?02:54
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+Radix_hey.. got a wre setup with multiple sites on it.  I have a main website www.mydomain.com and several subsites - s1.mydomain, s2.mydomain, etc.  I've configured mydomain.com to go to www.mydomain in hosts/webgui config etc, but it always seems to go to the config that's loaded first alphabetically regardless.05:29
@rizenit's because you didn't do it right05:30
@rizenthat's all the help i can provide05:30
+Radix_Any easy way to fix it?  or do I have to use the modproxy config on the site that's receiving it and redirect it there?05:30
@rizenok, i suppose i can tell you05:31
@rizenthe most likely culprit is in your either the last line in your modproxy config for each of your sites, or the ServerName line in the individual modperl files05:31
@rizenfor example05:32
@rizenin s1.example.com.modproxy05:32
@rizenyou should have ServerName s1.example.ccom05:32
+Radix_atm it's just what the wre generated via addsite05:33
@rizenand RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://%{HTTP_HOST}:81/$1 [P]05:33
@rizenthen in modperl you should have Servername s1.example.com05:33
@rizenand in the rewrite rule instead of %{HTTP_HOST} you might have the actual host name05:34
@rizenand if those are all true05:34
@rizenthen the next place to look is local dns05:34
@rizenif your local dns doesn't match your external dns, then you'll have problems05:35
@rizenin most cases local dns is nothing more than /etc/hosts05:35
SDuensinHey rizen - waaaay off topic, but are you a video gamer?  If so, this will be funny:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkDxF2kn1I   (If not, it's still funny!)05:35
@rizenbut sometimes people actually run named on their local box too05:35
+Radix_Bleh.. I just found some serveralias mydomain.com in each of the modproxy files - that has probably caused it05:36
+Radix_typical, as soon as get frustrated enough to ask for help I find the source myself :)05:36
@rizenyeah, stop asking for help05:37
+Radix_hehe.. thanks :)05:37
+Radix_found a bug in the ubuntu 6.10 wre setup btw05:39
+Radix_the default spectre.conf file has a missing comma in it05:39
@rizenthat's in all 0.7.2 releases05:40
+Radix_actually.. that may be 7.3.18 instead actually.. since that'd be where that file came from05:40
@rizenit's fixed in wre 0.8.005:40
+Radix_I added it to the wre installation wiki page05:40
+Radix_along with the force install weather::com::finder steps which are needed for the current wre too05:41
@rizenSD, why oh why would you waste 4 minutes of my life like that05:41
@rizeni'll never get that time back05:41
SDuensinBecause it's FUNNY!05:43
@rizenok, it was kinda funny...but i'm researching CAS05:44
@rizeni must have concentration...not funny05:45
@rizenbe sure to check plainblack.com on monday morning05:46
SDuensinCAS?  As in CAS before RAS?05:46
@rizenCAS = Central Authentication Services05:47
SDuensinEh, mine has something to do with RAM.  Never did understand it.  :-)05:47
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perlDreame1Hey, folk.s21:06
perlDreame1How do you draw good people to a BOF type conference session.21:06
@rizeni'm not sure they're all folks21:06
@rizensome might be sirs21:06
perlDreame1Empty promises and glitz?21:07
@rizenor ma'am21:07
perlDreame1I'm thinking of doing a BOF session at OSCON this year21:07
@rizenare bof's done in hallway space at oscon, or do you get a room like they do at apache con?21:07
perlDreame1They're done in rooms21:08
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wjw61evening rizen02:38
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ckotilrizen: I have a CAS authentication module for webgui22:43
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@rizenanybody actually here? need an opinion23:19
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@rizenOk, we have the section of our site called "Store" right now, which contains product and service descriptions, as well as lets you buy our products and services23:28
@rizenmy question is, is that word descriptive enough23:28
@rizenmy favorite word for this link is "offerings"23:28
@rizenbut i don't think that it's a good word23:29
@rizenfor the general public23:29
@rizenother options would be products, shop, services23:29
@rizenunfortunately there isn't enough room in the menu for "products and services"23:29
@rizeni know this might seem like a trivial thing...but i keep getting complaints that people say that they can't find anything on our site, so i'm trying to make some positive changes23:30
@rizenand this area isn't one i've gotten any suggestions on23:30
xdangerShop is quite descriptive23:30
xdangerbut it's Store in other form...23:31
@rizenbeing an international user, does one have better meaning to you than the other?23:31
xdangerOfferings doesn't sound so nice for some reason...23:32
@rizenthey mean virtually the same thing to the average user here23:32
@rizenno i mean "shop" vs "store"23:32
xdangerShop is something that many recognices...23:33
xdangerit's more friendly23:33
ckotilwhat about 'Online Store'23:41
ckotilwhat were you researching CAS for?23:41
ckotilwe have been thinking of dumping CAS and switchign to Cosign23:41
@rizensince it's on our site i think "Online" would be redundant23:42
ckotilbut if its a problem of clarity, it would solve that23:43
@rizeni want to implement some single sign on stuff into webgui so that it can be better integrated into various enterprises and also so that you can single sign on between various webgui sites23:43
ckotilright on.23:43
ckotilsingle sign on between sights has been a problem for me23:43
ckotilbetween domains really23:43
ckotileven tho i have a single webgui instance for multiple domains, since the cookies are separate from one another it forces users to click the cas login button everytime they switch domains23:44
ckotildunno an elegant solution for that.23:45
@rizenah, well i have a solution for that now23:45
@rizenit's built in to 7.423:45
@rizenyou can see it in action on plainblack.com right now23:45
@rizenin the upper right corner you can click on the webgui icon23:45
@rizenand it will single sign you on to the webgui.org domain23:46
@rizencompletely transparent to the user23:46
ckotilvery nice.23:46
ckotilyou think it will play nicely with my CAS.pm authentication plugin/23:46
@rizenit's a quick and dirty solution for multiple sites on the same database23:46
ckotilthats my setup23:46
@rizenoh yeah, your cas plugin won't even know about this23:47
@rizenit will work perfectly23:47
@rizenyou're welcome to pull the changes you need out of svn and apply them to 7.3.18 if you want23:47
ckotilim tempted to23:47
ckotilif only i had the same multi domain setup on my dev site 23:48
ckotilill just wait for the official release23:48
ckotilinteresting..only 3 files23:48
ckotilhehe tempting23:48
@rizenit's quite elegant23:49
@rizenonly about 15 lines of code in all23:49
ckotilare you manipulating the cookie?23:49
@rizenit's all done inside the webgui session system23:49
@rizeni just link the session from one domain to the other one23:50
@rizenso that you can use the same session in both domains23:50
ckotilthats great.23:50
--- Day changed Mon Jun 11 2007
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+crythiasok. What did I miss?00:11
@rizenonly everything00:11
+crythiasFigures. No more forum on pb.com?00:12
@rizenwe talked about the new pb/wg sites, single sign on00:12
@rizenopinions were asked for and given00:12
@rizenthe world came to an end and then began again00:12
@rizenthe only forum on plainblack.com is the support forum00:12
@rizenall community stuff has been moved to the other site00:12
+crythiasother... site?00:13
@rizenclick the wg logo in the upper right corner of pb00:13
+crythiasman, I have been out of it.00:13
+crythiasok, so ... no autoredirect for www.plainblack.com/discuss? bummer :(00:14
@rizeni can do that quick00:14
@rizenjust didn't think about it00:14
+crythiaswebgi.org conference logo is beauty, but goes nowhere.00:16
@rizenthe site's not done yet00:17
+crythias:) ok.00:17
@rizenwe're doing it over the weekend so it's ready on monday00:17
+crythiasah. 00:17
@rizenyou'll note that the front page has no content either00:17
+crythiaslo siento00:17
@rizenthere, your redirect is in place00:17
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wgGuest78what does it take to get ops on this channel00:21
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@preactioni need to find an IRC client that will warn me about clones00:26
@rizenjust so you can catch me when i do evil things?00:51
@preactionyou didn't even give me time to come up with an appropriately witty response00:51
@rizeni figured if i hung around too long someone would catch on to me00:51
ckotili was typing a response00:52
ckotilya, then i noticed the ip00:52
@preactionyou don't know about /whowas <nick> ?00:52
@rizenso i take it your computer is all fixed00:53
@preactioncolloquy doesn't support it, but if you open the server console you can see the reply00:53
ckotilohh whowas, thats new to me00:53
ckotili use irssi00:53
ckotilit rocks00:53
@preactionyeah, 6 hours of driving and mucking about with my car, 4 hours of driving, 10 seconds in the store to pick up the A/C adapter00:53
ckotilive got one of those ;)00:54
ckotili take the laptop w/ gps along with me on long trips00:54
@preactionooh, that's a good idea00:54
ckotilit rocks , i use M$ trips 200700:55
ckotilim planning on getting that iphone, might make my laptop/gps setup obsolete00:55
@preactioni hear supply shortages, so i'm not going to hold my breath for one00:56
ckotili think work is placing  a bulk order on some00:56
ckotili hope that pulls through00:56
@rizeni'm going to be camping out to get one00:58
ckotilheading out to a bbq.01:04
+Radix_rizen: can you rank my RFE when you get a chance - http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/ability-to-move-changes-from-one-version-tag-to-another#8IN0PZcA38N4nAE3-6i7kg01:49
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perlDreame1I need somebody with 7.4 running to help me verify a bug.01:50
perlDreame1According to wG, Admin's uiLevel is 501:50
perlDreame1even though in the db it says that it is 901:50
perlDreame1There's an easy way to test it01:50
perlDreame1Fire up wG01:50
perlDreame1Turn on Admin01:50
perlDreame1then check the New Content section of the Admin Bar01:50
perlDreame1if you don't have the SQL Report in that list, then the UI level is not 901:51
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xdangerSo I have a cs with CommitWithApproval.. and when I'm trying to commit, it warns that: Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::VersionTag::www_approveVersionTag. Root cause: Can't locate object method "setApproved" via package "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::CommitVersionTag" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm line 63.02:42
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@rizenthat means that you're trying to run setApproved on the workflow activity03:56
@rizenwhen you need to run it on the version tag03:57
@rizenyou're doing $self->setApproved03:57
@rizenyou need $versionTag->setApproved;03:57
@rizenor rather...not you..but the workflow engine03:58
@rizeni'm looking at the code for that module though03:58
@rizenand it looks good03:58
@rizeni think i see what's going on here04:00
@rizenxdanger, are you even still here?04:00
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SDuensinHey bud.04:04
@rizenradix: don't know if you're here or not04:40
@rizenbut if you are check out webgui.org04:40
@rizenyour new people behind webgui banner is BAD ASS04:41
@rizenyou almost look like a super hero04:41
vaydelooks sweet04:42
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+Radix-wrkI am a super hero ;)04:43
+Radix-wrk"wG hero"! :)04:43
@rizenwhat do you guys think of the new wg site?04:45
+Radix-wrkI like it, though the logo blends in with the yellow a bit much I think04:46
+Radix-wrkWhite on Yellow isn't that easy to read04:46
vaydeyeah, you have to squint to read it04:47
+Radix-wrk"Web Done Right" - should be in black I reckon04:47
@rizeni've passed your feedback on to our designer04:47
@rizenactually though04:48
@rizeni was talking more about the ability to find things04:48
@rizennow that "community" has been seperated from "content"04:48
+Radix-wrkLove the new menu structure on the side04:48
+Radix-wrkMuch easier to navigate around in04:49
+Radix-wrkAre you going to add a section for webgui hosting companies (including plainblack obviously) anywhere?04:50
@rizeni guess it would depend upon what the community wants...and how it benefits us04:51
@rizenwe have been talking about letting other webgui professionals buy banners in the space where your super hero banner is04:52
@rizenradix  do you host sites for people?05:04
@rizenis that why you asked?05:04
+Radix-wrkI've just started a sideline - doing a few sites for family/friends really atm and hoping to do more in future05:07
+Radix-wrkI'm using webgui for it all, and enjoying doing it so far05:07
+Radix-wrkit's very small scale at the moment.. just in my spare time - and will be like that for a while I suspect05:08
+Radix-wrkatm an advert would be too much for me right now, I've got more than enough work to last me until I go to europe - but perhaps in future05:09
@rizeni always have to weigh these types of decisions...and they always hurt05:13
@rizenon one hand, it probably would be good for community growth if we provided a list of hosters somewhere05:13
@rizenand what's good for the community is usually good for plain black, though in varing degrees05:13
@rizenon the other hand, i have to look out for a number 1: plain black, cuz without pb turning a profit, there is no webgui, and therefore no community05:14
+Radix-wrkYeah, I completely understand05:14
+Radix-wrkI'm not really fussed either way, was just asking really.05:15
@rizeni know05:16
+Radix-wrkAtm there doesn't even seem to be any links to you guys even for custom devel/hosting05:16
@rizenbut these kinds of questions vex me regardless of the intent of the person asking05:16
+Radix-wrkYeah, I know05:16
@rizenthere are at least two links to us on every page05:17
@rizenupper right corner, and the copyright05:17
@rizenbut no, there's no real advertising of our services on this site05:17
@rizenthe idea behind the split was to make this the "community's" web site05:17
@rizenso community stuff goes here05:17
@rizenand plain black services stuff goes on our site05:17
@rizenits a pretty stark contrast to anything we've ever done before05:18
@rizeni hope it works out in our favor05:18
@rizen"our" being both pb and the community05:18
+Radix-wrkI do too :)05:18
ckotilit sounds like a good idea05:19
vaydesucceed or fail, ya gotta try new things05:19
@rizenover the next six months we're going to be doing a lot of new things that no one has ever seen us do before05:19
@rizeninternally it's called the plan of 805:19
@rizen8 big changes05:19
@rizenand this is number 105:19
+Radix-wrksounds interesting :)05:20
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@rizentalked it over with our director of operations...and i think we are going to allow a list of hosters on the site08:54
@rizenfor free08:54
@rizeni shouldn't say "I think", I should say, "we are"08:54
+Radix-wrkSounds good08:54
@rizenit's going to be in the form of a wiki page so people can add themselves to the list08:55
+Radix-wrkI thought of that earlier when we were talking about it.. long as people respect the wiki and don't go adding themselves to the top of the list and stuff08:55
+Radix-wrkthat'd be my only fear with that08:56
@rizenI'm going to put some instructions in the wiki page...hopefully people will follow the instructions.08:56
@rizenif not, we'll have to kill the page08:56
+Radix-wrkWhy not just add a page that you control and an email method for ppl to add themselves?08:57
@rizenbecause we don't want to have an approval process on it. the act of doing that is almost like an endorsement of their service08:57
@rizenand we're not going to vet the hosters08:57
+Radix-wrkI suppose a wiki is more manageable and yeah, fair enough08:57
+Radix-wrkalways a chance that people will regard that as censorship, etc, etc..08:58
+Radix-wrkOkey.. well when it gets set up I'll put my name down I guess ;)08:58
+Radix-wrkBeen enjoying doing a few websites from scratch with webgui lately - not really done that much before08:59
@rizenhopefully the rules are clear enough09:06
@rizenand hopefully people will follow them09:06
+Radix-wrkHmm.. alphabetical huh.. then mine would be on top09:06
@rizenthat's good news for you09:06
+Radix-wrkno no.. I'm too small and too busy at the moment :)09:07
+Radix-wrkI'll add myself later when there's more people for me to get lost in :)09:07
@rizeni think the only fair way to do it is alphabetically09:07
+Radix-wrkYeah, makes sense.09:07
+Radix-wrkDo you remember the website theme that I won the recent style contest with?  See if you recognise it now - http://tenpart.juga.biz/09:10
@rizenit looks pretty similar, just with a logo and a little color chnage09:11
@rizenit was a good design 09:11
+Radix-wrkit's site I'm doing for my step-dad's band09:11
@rizenthey have a cool logo09:11
+Radix-wrkyeah, it's a beautiful style to work with09:11
@rizenit's good that you can reuse your work like that09:12
+Radix-wrkyup - that's why I love webgui so much - it lets me reuse stuff :)09:12
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pjesidid you move everything to the wiki?13:10
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@rizendefine "everything"18:00
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+perlDreamermorning folks18:45
+perlDreamerwhat's happening in the www? (Wide World of WebGUI)18:51
ckotilThings are running smooth for me.18:52
+perlDreamerckotil: would you mind manually running a wG test for me?18:53
+perlDreamerYou'd need to have a copy of 7.4 laying around.18:53
+perlDreamerIf you don't, then it wouldn't work.18:53
ckotilsure thing18:54
ckotili dont mind doing it on my dev instance18:54
+perlDreamerhead over to /data/WebGUI/t18:54
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+perlDreamerSeen the new webgui.org website?18:57
SDuensinYep.  I wasn't ready for it last night and nearly went blind!18:58
SDuensinAll that yellow in a dark room!18:58
@rizenpd, should have my wre working in the next few minutes18:58
+perlDreamerI did some digging around last night, and it sound like my NMI problem may be hardware related, or it could be just X.org having problems.19:00
+perlDreamerSome people said it was memory.19:01
@rizenyou said that if i log in with admin19:19
@rizeni won't see sql report19:19
@rizencuz of the ui level problem?19:19
+perlDreamerThat's one way to see the problem.19:20
+perlDreamerThe other way is to run t/Session.t19:20
@rizeni do see the sql report19:20
@rizenrunning the test now19:20
@rizenall tests successful19:21
@rizenchecked out full svn at 10:30am (central) and reset the database at that time19:22
+perlDreamerI'll close the bug then.19:22
+perlDreamerIt would be cool to get a new laptop, but expensive19:26
+perlDreamerI wonder what service times and costs are like...19:26
ckotilget a macbook pro and dont worry about service19:26
+perlDreamerI'm a self-avowed linux bigot.19:27
ckotilosx is similiar to unix and you get an awsome gui19:28
ckotiltoss parallels into the mix and you have one of the most versative OS's ever19:28
ckotilim installing vista as we speak to my mac19:28
ckotilwindows xp runs better on the mac that it does on my desktop at home19:29
+perlDreamerI've heard OSX is very, very cool, but I prefer to run free software.19:30
ckotilme too19:30
ckotilmost of it is free19:30
@rizengotta go, be back in a bit19:35
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@RizenHasTheMunchyup...must go to lunch soon20:09
wjw61When you get back, I have a few questions...  will watch for you here...20:09
@RizenHasTheMunchare they short?20:10
wjw61probably not... :-)20:10
@RizenHasTheMunchso as i was walking out the door i realised i don't have time to go out for lunch cuz i have a meeting at 1pm20:17
@RizenHasTheMunchthen i looked in my kitchen and realised i didn't have any good food cuz i haven't been to the store in a week and a half20:17
@RizenHasTheMunchso i'm going to have to settle for 2 carrots and a bowl of cereal20:18
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@rizengo ahead and ask your question20:18
wjw61I noticed a new binary for ubuntu feisty .... have had some trouble getting CVS_XS to compile... does the new binary include it?20:19
@rizenit is wre 0.7.2, so it's the same as all other versions of that release20:20
@rizenhas the same modules20:20
wjw61ok... will probably install it anyway... but won't be a priority now... next item...20:21
wjw61I suspect I made by modifying the dev.localhost.localdomain site when playing around.  I think I should have made a new site and left dev.x.x alone...20:22
@rizenare you saying your broke dev.localhost?20:23
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wjw61no.. it works just fine...20:23
@rizenthe sentence above doesn't make any sense20:23
@rizenreread then clarify20:24
wjw61what I am attempting to do is have /data/WebGUI be controlled via svn.  When I check out however, mod-perl breaks...20:24
+crythiasthat's like spooky20:25
wjw61I have yet to track down why it won't start with a fresh svn update... perhaps I should not check out from HEAD?20:25
@rizendo these steps20:25
@rizencd /data/20:25
@rizenmv WebGUI WebGUI.old20:25
@rizensvn co https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI20:25
@rizencp WebGUI.old/etc/*.conf WebGUI/etc/20:26
@rizencd sbin20:26
@rizenperl testEnvironment.pl20:26
@rizenthat last bit should tell you if you're missing any perl modules20:26
wjw61ok,... this is what I have been doing, but will give it a shot again.. brb20:28
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@rizenif testEnvironment.pl fails to install the perl modules then you should do it the old fashioned way20:28
@rizeninstall PMName20:28
wjw61..:-)  yup.. tried that too... they fail to compile... 20:29
wjw61... will however attempt it again...20:30
xdangerrizen: you had a suggestion to my problem?20:32
@rizenrefresh my memory, what is your problem?20:32
xdanger< xdanger> So I have a cs with CommitWithApproval.. and when I'm trying to commit, it warns that: Couldn't execute operation :  WebGUI::Operation::VersionTag::www_approveVersionTag. Root cause: Can't locate object method "setApproved" via package  "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::CommitVersionTag" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm line 63.20:33
@rizenoh right well the problem is that it's trying to execute setApproved on the CommitVersionTag activity, except that its the wrong activity. it should be doing that on the RequestApprovalForVersionTag activity20:35
@rizeni looked through the code and couldn't figure out why it would get into the state that it's in20:35
@rizenso the only thing i'm left with is either you've discovered a massive bug in the workflow engine that nobody else has discovered in a year of using it20:36
@rizenor you have edited your workflows in such a way that they are no longer working properly20:36
@rizeni suppose there could be also something that i'm just not seeing, but those seem to be the most likely options20:37
wjw61rizen.. is Config::JSON a relatively new requirement for wre?  20:46
@rizenyes. it's not even a requirement for wre 0.7.220:51
@rizenonly for 0.8.020:51
@rizenwhich isn't out yet20:51
wjw61hmm.. when running testEnvironment.pl.. that is the error I get... 20:51
@rizenpd, i'm adding bugs faster than you can fix them20:52
@rizenright, cuz you're using WebGUI 7.420:52
@rizenwhich will require WRE 0.8.020:52
@rizenso you'll need to install any new modules that WebGUI requires of you20:53
@rizencuz 7.4 will have new requirements20:53
+perlDreamer7.4 will require Wine, Samba, Bind, Sendmail and M520:54
+perlDreamerwe rewrote it in Fortran for speed20:54
wjw61ok.. will have to troubleshoot the install of Config::JSON then.. it will not compile here for some reason..20:55
@rizenthere's nothing to even compile20:55
@rizeni wrote it20:55
@rizenits a pure perl modules20:56
@rizentype "which perl" at your command line right now20:56
@rizenand tell me what you get20:56
wjw61/usr/bin/perl... hmmm... that's not right!20:57
@rizen. /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment20:57
@rizenthen type cpan20:57
@rizeni bet things go better20:57
@rizenthe dot space at the beginning is significant20:57
wjw61yes.. I actually have the in my .profile.. not being picked up... will examine that later...20:58
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xdangerrizaway: I have the default workflow in place...23:35
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@khennanyone here know what would cause data to be archived in the SQL Form?00:50
@khennit seems to be a mysterious process00:51
+perlDreamerno clue, khenn00:51
+perlDreamerYou need to talk to MHG00:51
@khennfigured as much00:51
+perlDreameron a quick look, it looks like old data is archived whenever new data is saved00:53
+perlDreamersee line 280900:53
+perlDreamerYou should be able to back trace the @updates array from there.01:10
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@rizenxdanger, i'm afraid that trying to discover what's going on with your site is more than i have time for. either post a bug report with instructions on how to replicate, or take it up in our support board and someone will figure it out with you.01:13
xdangerI'm gonna have a look at it myself when I have time...01:14
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+MrHairgreasehey guys01:14
+MrHairgreasewanna have a laugh01:14
+MrHairgreasesome guy dared to reply his to me01:15
+MrHairgrease ok, i will try to show to some one. but for me it's absolutely ok with English too.01:15
+MrHairgreaseHe also is very sure that sentences without verbs are considered to be correct in the English speaking part of the world01:16
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wjw61ahhhhh... and things work!!01:18
@rizenthat's funny mhg01:31
@rizenhow is it exactly that you structure a sentence without a verb01:31
@rizenwhat action could take place?01:32
@rizeni guess it would be a sentence like "the dumb brown cow."01:32
@rizenbut then you have to ask yourself, "WHAT?" about the dumb brown cow01:32
@rizennice job wjw01:32
wjw61keeps one guessing ...01:33
wjw61.. yet another sentence without a subject..01:34
+MrHairgreaserizen: i asked the guy that question, and he replied with:01:34
+MrHairgreaseyeah, i read it hundreds times and it were ok.01:34
@rizenbut even that has a verb01:37
+MrHairgreasethe sentence i referred to was: 'A molecule with an inner conductive part01:39
+MrHairgrease 57 (delocalized $\pi$-electron systems) connected to an electrode.'01:39
+MrHairgreaseignore the 5701:39
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+perlDreamerkhenn, you just missed Martin02:05
@khennI figured I wouldn't see him till tomorrow02:06
@khennit is after midnight in the netherlands afterall =p02:06
@khennguess he just got home from the pub02:06
+perlDreamerIt's hard being Eurotrash02:09
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@rizenhey lucy, you got some splainin to do03:20
@preactionpray you aren't calling me girls names now?03:29
@rizenwhatever betty03:51
@preactionrizen: i'm loathe to do this, but i think spectre's cron isn't responding anymore. until i know why i don't want to restart it, but i can't see anything symptomatic.03:56
@preactioni can force jobs to run, and they'll run, but nothing gets started by the scheduler itself03:56
@preactioni ran into this problem on a client site as well, and restarting spectre seemed to fix it03:57
@rizenwell you might as well restart it cuz we don't have any real troubleshooting mechanisms to look inside the scheduler03:57
@rizenmaybe i need to build in stuff to do it, like i did with workflow03:58
@preactiona way to connect to the process and read what it's doing? like listening on a socket?04:00
@rizenperl spectre.pl --status04:01
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@rizenit tells you what's going on with workflow04:01
@rizenat least enough that you can troubleshoot what's going on with the system04:01
@rizenif i did the same for cron i think we'd be goo04:02
@rizenplus...i made it so no matter how many times it errored, workflows keep running04:02
@rizenso that way once they get corrected we're all good04:02
@rizeni should do the same for cron04:02
@preactiondo cron jobs have a "last run" datetime?04:03
@rizeni'd have to look, i don't think so04:03
@preactiondoesn't look like it, but that might be a good idea as well04:04
@rizenright, that would be required to work with --status04:05
@preactiononce a cron job is posted, it behaves like a normal instance, no?04:05
@rizenprobably along with a few other things04:05
@rizenjust like i did with workflow04:05
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+Radix-wrkanyone awake?06:44
+Radix-wrkmacro documentation.. where can I find out how to do this?06:48
+Radix-wrkI haven't been able to find it using search at all06:49
+Radix-wrkumm.. not creating a macro06:49
+Radix-wrkI mean documenting a macro I've written - ie help files I guess06:49
+Radix-wrkHmm.. that works for macros as well as assets?06:55
@rizenanything you want to put in the help06:55
+Radix-wrkk.. I guess I can use an existing one as a basis.. cheers :)06:55
+Radix-wrkno text in this macro, but four parameters - three optional which I wanted to document somewhere other than in the code ;)06:55
@rizenyeah, but you need to use i18n in order to build help06:56
@rizenthey are linked06:56
+Radix-wrkWorking on my first entry for the macro contest :)06:56
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SDuensinGood morning.15:56
ckotilgood morning15:56
SDuensinHey ckotil 15:57
ckotili tried to install mysql5 via rpms on a RHEL AS4 machine. didnt go so well15:58
ckotilhad to back it out and go back to 415:58
ckotilso today im gonna attempt it again15:58
ckotilw/ pre compiled non rpms15:58
ckotilthen if that doesnt cut it, ill do it from source15:58
ckotili want to get the db local.15:58
* SDuensin isn't a big RPM fan.16:00
ckotilcurrently its a couple RU's away16:00
ckotilthey're nice most of the time16:00
ckotilvery fast and clean16:00
ckotileven the init script screwed up w/ the mysql5 isntall16:00
ckotili should email mysql and let them know.16:01
pjesiis it possible to run the sql migration scripts manually?16:11
AMH_bobGood morning!16:11
pjesiI have the latest sources but the db is not in sync16:11
pjesigood morning!16:11
pjesithe CS breaks due to different table structure16:14
+Radix_why via rpm's?16:14
+Radix_why not use yum?16:14
SDuensinHey AMH_bob, pjesi, Radix_ 16:14
+Radix_Hi SD16:15
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@rizenAMH_bob. How's your project coming along?17:19
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@khennanyone seen MHG today?17:35
pjesirizen: any hints on how to run the sql migration scripts *after* WG has been updated?17:39
@rizenwhat sql migration scripts?17:40
pjesiwhich should be execute by the upgrade scripts17:41
pjesisomehow they did not work when I upgraded from 7.3.12 to .1817:41
@rizenif they somehow didn't work, then you need to start over and make them work17:43
@rizenyou can't retroactively apply them, you never know what bad stuff might happen17:43
AMH_bobHi Rizen; the project is going fine... we were all in Amsterdam yesterday, hoping to catch you in person or on a video(conference).17:44
AMH_bobBut Amsterdam is never a disappointment :P17:44
@rizenapparently i was supposed to be speaking there, however, no one told me until yesterday that i was speaking there17:45
@rizenmethinks the organizers of said conference are not very organized17:46
@rizeni offered to come in person back in january, but was told not to because they weren't even sure they were doing a conference17:47
AMH_bobNo problem, the day wasn't a compleet bust - I always anjoy a good road trip17:51
AMH_bobI'm pretty sure something will be set up soon by Robert Heessels.17:53
@rizenoh...i've always thought that the bob in AMH_bob = Robert Heessels17:57
@rizeni guess not17:57
AMH_bobNope, my name is Robert Broen, but Because we already had a Robert, I became... Bob!17:58
AMH_bobRobert Heessels is the managing director, I'm just a humble CMS programmer.17:59
@rizendon't say "just", everyone in an organization is important18:00
@rizenwell, everyone except preaction that is18:02
@rizenhe's completely replaceable18:02
AMH_bobI just spoke with Robert; In 1 or 2 weeks he's going to call you to tell you more about our plans;18:03
@preactionwoot! replaceable!18:04
AMH_bob(I should stick up for Ubuntu users like that o:-))18:04
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AMH_bobUntil next time.... Goodbye!18:09
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+perlDreamerMy laptop isn't broken!18:35
@rizenbring it over, i'll break it18:36
* perlDreamer trundles back to home go fetch the laptop18:36
+perlDreamerrizen: here's something to occupy you while you're waiting: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/06/mycologist_resources.html18:37
+perlDreamerBesides, there's no point in taking it to Wisonsin, you're supposed to be in Europe yesterday, no?18:39
@rizenare you suggesting that i need more things to do?18:39
+perlDreamerNo, just trying to save my laptop =)18:39
@preactioni've got a mycology lab next to my shower18:40
+perlDreamerbetter next to, than inside.  Or on18:41
ckotiltheres a fungus amongus19:01
@preactioni'm a fun guy19:03
+perlDreamerHard to tell if the ensuing silence was due to the pun, or just standard channel lull19:25
ckotilstandard lull19:32
+perlDreamerAre we supposed to backport all bug fixes from 7.4 to 7.3 Branch?20:25
@rizenif they are backportable20:30
ckotilyou ever see this while running the testEnvironment.pl? a21:08
ckotilVerifying database connection: perl: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/mysql/mysql.so: undefined symbol: DBIc_TRACE_LEVEL21:08
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+perlDreamerckotil: That's comming out of perl and mysql, not out of WebGUI.  Sounds like a bad compile of mysql.xs21:23
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* ckotil shakes fist at mysql dev's21:35
ckotilthey put out bad rpms AND compiled binaries21:36
ckotilim just gonna have to wait to upgrade the webserver to RHEL521:36
ckotilthat comes with mysql521:36
+perlDreamersilly question.  JT uses RHEL4, why not do that?21:38
ckotili hit that roadblock ^^ when trying to go from mysql4 to 521:39
ckotilon RHEL421:39
+perlDreameruse the WRE?21:40
ckotilno, already have webgui from source installed. and running21:40
ckotilits using a remote db21:40
ckotilthis is my production machine.21:40
ckotilnext step would be for me to build mysql5 from source. but i decided to wait to upgrade to rhel521:41
ckotilwe built mysql5 from source on our db machine.21:41
ckotilit runs rhel421:41
+perlDreamerbuild the WRE on it, too, but only use the MYSQL component21:42
+perlDreamerlunch date with wife, be back later!21:42
ckotilill bet $5 the wre wont build on it ;)21:43
ckotilalways fails at lftp21:43
professorfrink_i've been trying to build a dataform in 7.3.18 and i'm having trouble getting it to export properly - 21:57
professorfrink_i set up a field with multiple checkbox values, and when i export tab delimited, the values get pushed into other fields21:58
professorfrink_i'm viewing it as a .ods spreadsheet21:58
professorfrink_it seems to display correctly when i list all entries, and if i view it with a text editor21:59
@preactioncan you pastebin a sample?22:08
professorfrink_actually, i think i figured it out - openoffice and neooffice use the semicolon as a separator, pushing the values to the next column22:20
professorfrink_excel doesn't do that, and since everyone who's going to be checking it is going to be using excel, i'm not going to sweat it22:20
professorfrink_but that's an FYI, i guess, for those of us who refuse to use microsoft...22:21
@rizenactually you can get oo to use a comma22:21
@rizenyou just have to tell it that in advance22:21
professorfrink_mm, good point22:22
professorfrink_i didn't set the import filter correctly22:22
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+perlDreamernew people in the room23:15
+perlDreamerWho let that happen?23:15
ckotilgoing for a new World Record23:16
+perlDreamerHaving a weird sense of deja vu, ckotil.  Why not use the precompilied WRE binaries?23:18
+perlDreamerto get past the lftp compile problem?23:18
ckotili had a problem with those too.23:24
ckotilim happy with running it from source.23:25
ckotilsure setup takes a while.23:25
ckotilbut ive gotten it down to half a day23:25
ckotilplus im running RH5 mostly now.23:26
ckotiltheres no RH5 precompiled binary yet23:26
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@preactioni need a new house, with A/C so my darn computers don't die from the heat...07:58
@rizenor just buy a window air conditioner for a few hundred bucks08:33
@preactionit may work, it may not. most of the problem comes from the large sheet of black rubber next to my windows and screen door (the roof of the garage next to me). it basically bakes this tiny apartment08:38
@preactionit will work, it just might cost a bunch in energy08:38
@rizengot a river or lake near your house? run a hose to it and a radiator in your appartment08:51
@rizenyou'll freeze yourself out08:51
+Radix-wrkcheaper way is to just use fans and get some circulation going08:52
+Radix-wrkor yeah, get a split system aircon08:53
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+Radix-wrkRizen: Cache errors with webgui.org - I log in and get - "Hello Meatbop. Click here to log out.     You have 2010 karma to spend.    Turn Admin Off!" and full admin control10:17
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SDuensinHi preaction 15:57
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@rizenradix, you still here?16:05
AMH_bobGood morning16:07
@rizengood morning16:07
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preaction_hmm full dance guard in today16:19
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+Radix_rizen: yeah, just about to head off to bed16:29
@rizenbefore you go, could you please explain the circumstances around your cache problem16:29
@rizeni need to know if you were physically logged in16:29
@rizenor if it was just a cache problem16:29
+Radix_All I did was pop webgui.org into firefox16:30
+Radix_I hadn't been to the site at all that day16:30
@rizencould you continue browsing the site as the other person?16:30
+Radix_I didn't stay as meatbop for long16:30
+Radix_but I did try turning admin off and that worked16:30
@rizenmore than one page?16:30
+Radix_still showed meatbop and his karma16:30
@rizendid you click "log out"16:30
+Radix_then logged in as me16:31
@rizenand after hitting turn admin off you could sttill see his name?16:31
+Radix_it loaded in full admin mode tho16:31
@rizenthis time when you went to the site you went directly there16:32
@rizenvia typing url into browser?16:32
+Radix_yup, just typed webgui.org and went straight there16:32
@rizenand the last time you went there?16:32
@rizendid you go via plainblack.com16:32
+Radix_yesterday sometime I think16:32
@rizenclicking on the icon in the upper right corner?16:32
+Radix_I usually have a shortcut for plainblack.com/discuss that I use16:33
@rizenso then you were automatically redirected to webgui.org when you used that bookmark16:33
@rizenare you sure you used that bookmark?16:34
+Radix_I didn't use that bookmark today16:34
@rizenthe last time you went to webgui.org16:34
+Radix_yes, I used it last time16:34
@rizenhmmm...well i'll have to figure it out16:34
@rizenunfortunately nothing you've told me gives me any cluse16:35
@rizennot your fault16:35
+Radix_if it happens again, what should I do?16:35
@rizenleave yourself logged in and email me16:35
@rizeni'll take a look and see what i can see16:35
@rizeni can't imagine how it would happen16:36
+Radix_there was a cache bug submitted recently I saw16:36
@rizenyeah, but that's not actually a bug, and it only had to do with visitors16:37
+Radix_okey.. well I'll leave it in your hands16:38
@rizenthanks...sleep well16:38
+Radix_if it happens again I'll let ya know :)16:38
@rizenit better not happen again16:38
+Radix_I've had some funny stuff since the new site tho.. logged in on one page, then logged out on another, etc16:39
+Radix_never been logged in as someone else tho16:39
+Radix_anyhow.. I'm off to bed.. nite :)16:39
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@khennMrHairgrease:  I have a question for you about the SQL Form18:34
@khennspecifically, what is archiving and what causes it?18:34
@rizendon't answer him18:34
@rizenhe's tryying to pull a fast one on you18:34
+MrHairgreasefigure it out yourself =)18:34
@rizenok i suppose you can answer him18:34
@rizenjust be careful18:34
@rizenfrank has shifty eyes18:34
@khennit appears that it only happens when you get a new revision of a row of data18:34
@khennI hate you JT18:34
+MrHairgreasethe archive bit says that that version of the record is not the newest18:34
@khennI thought so18:35
@khennI think there's a problem with the SQL Form fyi18:35
@khennI'm going to confirm18:35
@khennbut I think the query can backfire18:35
@khennyou do a "select distinct(xxx), xxx, xxx, xxx from xxx18:36
@khennand I think it may, in some cases, grab the archived record18:36
@khenneven if it has a more recent version18:37
+MrHairgreasecould be18:37
+MrHairgreasebut that is not what it should do18:37
@khennI'll try to reproduce it18:37
ckotilwheres the dev  section now with the new sites?19:32
ckotilim looking for the api docs19:32
ckotildoh. that doesnt appear to be it either19:33
@rizeneverything dev related was moved into the wiki19:33
ckotilshould redirect plainblack.com/dev to the wiki19:33
@rizenfuck the fucking fuckers19:34
ckotilrighton , such a versatile word19:35
@rizenthere, it's redirected. are you happy now?19:42
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wgGuest58I'm contemplating using WebGUI to run our intranet.  Folks routinely drag files to folders on our shared drives.  I think getting them to use the webGUI interface to save folder will be too much so I plan to just use links on the pages to the folders.  Is this pretty straight forward?  the demo version had some defaults that wouldn't let me do this.22:17
@rizenyes you can do that22:19
@rizenand it's relatively easy to do...if i understand you correctly22:19
@rizeni think there's also either a macro or an asset22:19
@rizenin the add ons section22:19
@rizenthat will read a list of files22:19
@rizenin a folder22:20
@rizenand display links to them in an automated fashion22:20
@rizenif i'm wrong, it would be pretty trivial to create such an animal22:20
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wgGuest58I suspected as much - thanks for the confirmation.  Just to be clear, you say it would22:21
wgGuest58be pretty easy to have a macro have the website reflect what's in the folders?22:21
wgGuest58thanks for the help.22:22
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ckotilhaha, he's from dslindiana22:22
ckotildidnt know there was such a thing22:22
@rizenmust be a regional thing22:24
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ckotilthey're based in indianapolis22:33
ckotilinteresing new workflow modes!22:33
@rizenwhat's interesting about them?22:34
@rizenbtw...have you started checking in your triggers yet?22:34
ckotilnot sure yet. about to read the floating help screen to see whats new22:34
ckotilno, i havent had time to work on them.22:34
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@rizencan you let me know if you don't think you'll get them done by the first week of july?22:35
@rizeni need them to be in 7.4, so i'll have to do it if you can't22:35
ckotilill squeeze them in before then22:35
ckotilill keep  you posted.22:35
ckotilhrm floating help is too long, it gets hidden by the top of the screen. and  i have a fairly high resolution22:36
@rizeni'll have to check that out and shorten it then22:37
@rizeni was sure i tested that before22:37
@rizenwhat browser are you using?22:37
ckotilff mac22:37
ckotili can try it in ie too22:37
ckotiland ff windows while im at it22:38
ckotilya its an issue in ff mac/windows, and IE722:39
@rizenstarting up my 7.4 install so i can look22:39
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@rizeni guess i was a bit verbose22:40
ckotilyeah, how bout 1 -v instead of vvvvvvv22:40
@rizenyeah jt, this is a help pop up not a book22:41
ckotilim trying to get pending version feedback working. i.e. after approving/denying a pending tag , i want to take my users to the manage pending version tag screen. so far ive been unsuccessful in 7.3.18, so im trying it in 7.422:43
ckotilgraham has been working with me. he claims to have gotten it to work. i keep getting the insufficient credientials screen.22:43
@rizenhave you tried tripple clicking?22:44
ckotilI have.22:45
ckotilit works fine22:45
ckotilmy users however cannot22:45
ckotilits total bullshit22:45
ckotilthey want me to write a script to list out all the pending version tags if i cannot get webgui to play nicely. (i know it will eventually)22:45
ckotilbut jeezus, they are so needy!22:45
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ckotili blame myself. you give them an inch and they take a mile22:47
@rizeni don't know exactly what you're trying to do but if i do understand it, then it sounds trivial22:48
@rizenand if graham made it work quickly you could just ask him for the code to do it22:49
ckotilit does seem trivial22:49
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ckotiland while i havent seen his code yet, it was only a couple lines that were edited. and really they were just substituted22:50
ckotilwhich is making me think some other modification i made is screwing it up.22:50
@rizenyou should just ask him for the code22:52
ckotili will.22:53
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@rizenthere, i have decreased my verbosity22:56
@rizenand still got the message across22:56
@rizentechnically there is only one new mode22:57
@rizenit's just that i gave functionality that was already there a name22:57
@rizenparallel, singleton, and serial modes already existed, they just weren't as neatly specified22:58
ckotilya, i like it.22:59
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--- Day changed Thu Jun 14 2007
@rizenare you telling me you don't already have an itunes account?00:04
@rizenwhat kind of lame @$$ #&*#&$*# #&#& #&$*$(&@^&*$ &*# # doesn't have at least one ipod and an itunes account00:05
@rizeno did i say that out loud00:05
@rizenretract previous statement00:05
ckotili guess me00:05
ckotili dont have an ipod either00:05
ckotiland i assumed iphone had gps...it doesnt.00:05
@rizendo you have an mp3 player?00:05
ckotili used to have an archos jbmm2000:05
@rizeniphone has gps00:05
ckotilit left a sour taste in my mouth.00:06
ckotilyou sure?00:06
ckotilive read it doesnt.00:06
@rizeni don't know if it has "gps capabilities" but all phones have gps00:06
@rizenit's the law00:06
ckotilwell yeah.00:06
ckotilfcc requires it.00:06
ckotilmaybe it will use  gps from the tower.00:07
ckotilim just getting cold feet.00:09
@rizenthere are many reasons not to buy it00:17
@rizenno third party apps, expensive, no gps00:17
@rizenbut there are also lots of reasons to buy it00:17
@rizenone device that does it all, it's cool, it "just works", it does most everything you'd need without third party apps00:18
@rizeni'm going to use mine as a laptop replacement00:19
@rizenalmost everywhere i go i take my laptop, for example, to perl mongers meetings00:19
@rizenbut i don't actually use my laptop there for anything that the iphone can't do00:19
@rizeni also take my ipod and my digital camera with me00:19
ckotilthird part support was confirmed.00:20
@rizeni'll use digital camera on the phone to take pictures, record the audio track using the ipod on the phone, and use the built in web browser if i need to look something up, or bookmark something00:20
@rizenthe only third party support you have are web browser apps00:21
@rizennot real apps00:21
@rizengranted, web browser apps are pretty cool00:21
ckotilwell, thats better than nothin.00:21
ckotiljavascript enabled, safari aps00:21
@rizenand they do integrate with the phone00:21
@rizenso you can touch a phone number and it will start a call00:21
@rizenbut yeah, you can't install anything on the phone00:21
ckotilit will be cool to look up a number via online yellow pages and hit call.00:22
@rizeni think it's because they want everyone to have a "perfect'" experience with the phone...without other apps to slow it down or make it crash00:22
@rizenyeah..that's the thing they demo'd at the conference this week00:22
@rizenthey built a web interface to the ldap repo at apple00:23
@rizenand then you could see people's photos, managers, phone numbers, email addresses, and physical addresses00:23
ckotilnot to shabby00:23
@rizenand clicking on email addresses and phone numbers did the right thing00:23
@rizenit's cool for sure...but you can't integrate to the camera with that00:24
@rizenor any of the other hardware components00:24
@rizenso i guess it's only "half" cool from that perspective00:25
@rizenbut still...the phone is amazing as far as i'm concerned. way better than the phone i have now00:25
@rizenand like i said...when i go places, i no longer have to bring laptop + phone + ipod + camera00:25
ckotilyah, thats the big selling point for me00:26
@rizenhonestly the only app i wish it had that it doesn't is ssh00:26
@rizenso if i absolutely had to, i could fix a server from my phone00:26
ckotilno doubt.00:27
ckotilthatd be a god send.00:27
ckotili hope to have something like that SOON.00:27
ckotilbefore i move out west , for when im on the slopes skiing and a server goes down00:27
* ckotil sighs00:28
ckotilsome day..00:28
ckotilits about that time. heading home.00:29
+perlDreamerckotil, found a thread that might interest you...01:03
+perlDreamerthese guys had lftp build problems.  They needed a new ncurses-dev01:03
+perlDreamerbug fix pending...01:19
+perlDreamerrizen: I've just finalized my bug fix for this one:02:00
+perlDreamerI now need to write a script to fix all the borken assets in the db with the wrong size02:00
+perlDreamershould I update or commit changes like that?02:00
+perlDreamerThe upgrade script could run for a long time, since it needs to iterate over all File and Image assets.02:09
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+Radix_pfft.. my windows mobile phone can do everything that the iphone does.. AND it can do ssh ;)02:39
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nubahuh. there's pssh for palm, too02:43
+Radix_yeah, but palm is dead ;)02:44
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nubawell mine is quite alive03:31
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nubabut that's because of pssh, mostly03:51
nubaie. i never found a mail client for palm better than pine03:53
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vaydeGah!  I just saw an END block inside of a BEGIN block inside of an IF block05:49
* vayde shudders05:49
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pjesiphew, I managed to fix my mess15:05
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AMH_bobGood morning!16:11
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SDuensinHey AMH_bob 16:15
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AMH_bobBake from my break - playing table fussball16:33
AMH_bobeh, back16:34
AMH_bobI'm pumping out production templates right now... about 25 templates in 5 colors each - party time!16:35
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SDuensinHmmm...  Interesting...03:41
SDuensinI selected six MP3 files, cut them to the clipboard.  Went to another location in the Asset Manager.  Checked an item, clicked Delete...03:41
SDuensinWent somewhere else in the Asset Manager.  Then I was going to paste the MP3s...   They're gone!  Nowhere to be found!03:42
SDuensinThey're not in the trash, not on the clipboard, not in any revisions.03:42
SDuensinI searched the Asset Manager.  Nope.03:42
SDuensinDid a "locate" on the drive.  They're still there.  Ran rebuildLineage for fun.  No dice.03:43
nubaguess webgui now has DRM.. and it blocks people from making copies of mp3 files ;)03:43
SDuensinWTF happened?03:43
* SDuensin introduces WebGUI to the Creative Commons. :-)03:43
nubaprobably RIAA posted a RFE while no one was looking03:44
SDuensinI can reupload them to WebGUI, but I don't want to confuse it if it thinks they're still out there somewhere.03:44
+Radix-wrkthe location you deleted tho..03:46
+Radix-wrkwas it the directory where the mp3's were stored?03:46
nubatry a find /data/ -type f -iname "*mp3" to see if you can spot it in the directory tree03:46
+Radix-wrkif you delete the parent - regardless of whether the items were on the clipboard or not, the children are deleted too03:47
+Radix-wrktry checking your trash and system trash03:47
SDuensinNot in the trash.  I don't think they were children.  Maybe though.03:48
SDuensinIf I move them out of /data/, should I delete the folders they're in, or will that cause chaos?03:49
+Radix-wrkis the parent item still in the trash?03:49
+Radix-wrkor the item you deleted earlier03:49
SDuensinDOH!  Yes.  I'm an idiot.03:50
SDuensinThank you.  :-)03:50
+Radix-wrkif so, I'd try restoring that item03:50
+Radix-wrkso the mp3's came back? :)03:50
+Radix-wrkmove them - then delete it ;)03:51
+Radix-wrkwebgui's copy to clipboard doesn't actually move the files at all - just tags them03:51
SDuensinGood idea.  :-)03:51
+Radix-wrkso if you delete the parent while they're on the clipboard, they go too03:51
+Radix-wrkcan be confusing if you're not aware of it I know ;)03:52
SDuensinI knew better.  I've seen other people ask the same thing.03:52
+Radix-wrkSometimes it takes personal experience to teach a lesson ;)03:53
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ckotilindeed. and hwat used to be payday15:53
ckotili got bumped to monthyly salary15:54
ckotilstill waiting for my first huge check.15:54
SDuensinMoney is good.  :-)15:55
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+crythiasah, yeah. It's me. we can all scatter, now.21:21
@rizennobody scatters from you, we all scatter to you, and hump your leg like a little puppy21:29
+crythiasI kick y'all off with derision. 21:29
+crythiasand wipe the stains from my pant leg.21:29
@rizenFYI, if any of you are coming to the WUC this year, add yourself to the wiki: http://www.plainblack.com/wuc/community22:38
@rizenand and let us know if you want to set up any BOFS http://www.plainblack.com/wuc/wiki/bofs22:38
@rizenso we can make arrangements for rooms to be available22:39
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--- Day changed Sat Jun 16 2007
+crythiasInteresting. it's not quite clear *when* the wuc is, ... click the schedule, it says, "Day 1" ... Click Hotel it says Rates... Click Registration and you get the badge .. thing.00:16
+crythiasok, well, I meant, if you started on the links ^^^00:17
+crythiasIf I might make a suggestion, put the dates so they end up in the title of the page.00:18
+crythiasoh, and rizen, get off my leg :-P00:22
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+perlDreamerGuys, we need to find a way to get Tina Gasperson to write about WebGUI instead of metadot00:39
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nubagetting an error with that url.. >The failure reason is: xarDB_init: Failed to connect to xarmysql://xardba@xaraya-db-2/lc_live1, error message: Too many connections01:27
nubalooks like their Xaraya (just found out its a postnuke fork) setup is broken01:28
nubajust aobut time for them to replace it with WebGUI!!! :)01:28
@preactionpostnuke was popular enough to get forks? it was poorly-engineered crap!01:41
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@rizenhowdy all19:00
@rizenthat might be the most delayed howdy in this history of the universe23:05
* diakopter forks another history of the universe23:05
@rizenif our transaction rate does not increase, we'll be speaking as slow as Ents23:06
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cap10morganHas anyone ever written a module to allow WebGUI to be an OpenID server? I.e. use the WebGUI auth system to serve OpenIDs for that domain?04:07
* Radix-wrk googles OpenID to find out what it is.05:26
+Radix-wrkCould be worth USD$5000 to the OS project who implements it according to iwantmyopenid.org05:32
cap10morganRadix-wrk: yeah, I saw that. Did you read the requirements? 200,000 users and 5,000 downloads / month. Does WebGUI meet that?05:33
+Radix-wrkno idea05:34
cap10morganthey have lots of popular/crappy CMS's in there05:38
cap10morganin the list of projects they want to give a bounty for05:38
cap10morganthe big three: Drupal, Joomla, and Plone05:38
cap10morganactually Plone may not be that bad05:38
cap10morganI hate Drupal and Joomla05:38
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@preactioncap10morgan: 200,000 end users? 5000 downloads / month? does it count the 400+ plainblack-hosted sites? the sourceforge project averages 150 downloads / day. this isn't to mention the official repo at http://update.webgui.org09:10
+Radix-wrkpreaction: http://iwantmyopenid.org/bounty09:16
@preactioni didn't think they were still looking for things after two years09:17
+Radix-wrk2 years? huh?09:18
@preaction1 years maybe09:19
@preactionno, this is openID 2.0, they might've offered it for OpenID 1.0 too09:19
@preactionbut if you're going to implement openID, why not just go with Yadis?09:20
* Radix-wrk googles yadis09:20
+Radix-wrkbecause yadis aren't offering US$5k to implement it?09:21
@preactionbut by implementing yadis+openID you get both09:21
+Radix-wrksure, I guess09:22
@preactionyadis is like an interface layer on top of OpenID/LID09:22
@preactionwait, yadis just describes what interfaces a URL supports09:23
+Radix-wrkpreaction: I just went to webgui.org again and I'm logged in as meatbop09:23
@preactioncan you access anything?09:24
+Radix-wrkI just hit turn admin on and can now see admin console09:24
+Radix-wrkI went to statistics and can see the full stats for it09:24
@preactionokay, that's bad09:25
@preactionhang on09:25
+Radix-wrkJT asked me to let him know if it happened again09:25
+Radix-wrkthis is the second time it's happened09:25
+Radix-wrkActive Sessions:18641009:25
+Radix-wrkmy ip should be if you want to see what session I'm in09:27
@preactioni found it, but damned if i know how it happened09:29
+Radix-wrkit's happened twice now, both times I've just typed 'webgui.org' into firefox09:30
+Radix-wrkI'll email JT and just leave the session open for the moment - maybe he can debug it and figure out why09:31
@preactionhere's your session id: GmxMBwYIZmgDKuyjUwACAg09:31
+Radix-wrklol.. taking a screenshot for JT to see, and it's got me as the banner pic - people behind webgui - how poignant!09:34
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SDuensinGood morning.15:57
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@preactiongood morning16:14
wgGuest17I nearly have our IT conviced that we need WebGUI to run our intranet.  His last comment: "how much space does it take up - our servers are limited"  We'll be using the WRE on a windows 2003 server16:14
wgGuest17i downloaded and unzipped it - but I assume installed size is much biggeR?16:14
@preactionWebGUI itself takes about 25M, the WRE takes a bit more (80-100M i think). your site may take lots16:15
@preactionbut the overhead for the server is about 100-125M16:15
@preaction(if you're using the WRE, of course)16:15
wgGuest17So 250MB is a safe, over-conservative answer to give him?16:16
@preactionlet me verify before i give you inaccurate data16:17
@preactionlooks like WRE for windows is only about 75M, so 100M for the server. so 250 should be plenty conservative (Depending on how big you anticipate your site growing)16:19
wgGuest17Thanks a ton.  Once I get it going, I have a few custom ideas so I'll definitely be in touch.  Thanks, Greg  gfulk@paragoncompanies.com16:20
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@preactiongood way to start monday: another convert to the cause16:20
@preactionoffset by bad way to start monday: after working nearly 96 hours straight I'm not done with my project due in 30 minutes :p16:24
SDuensinWell, quit screwing around here and get to work!16:25
@preactionI bestow upon you the time-waster of all time-wasters: http://www.handdrawngames.com/DesktopTD/16:35
AMH_bob:P I'll try that one at 5 pm17:00
AMH_bobGoof morning!17:01
SDuensinGoof indeed.17:15
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+Radix-wrkrizen: you around?03:57
+Radix-wrkI'm still logged in as meatbop if you're interested03:57
@rizeni never logged you out03:57
@rizeni emailed you some questions03:57
+Radix-wrkall I did was type in 'webgui.org' in firefox's address bar03:58
@rizeni think i know what caused this03:58
@rizensee if you're still logged in as meatbop04:00
+Radix-wrklogged me out as soon as I clicked on a link04:01
+Radix-wrkwhat was it then?04:01
@rizenat one point we had our single sign on stuff going through snippets which were set to cache04:02
@rizenso you picked up steve's sessionId04:02
@rizenthen steve never logged out, so his sessionId never went away04:02
@rizenand you got his cookie04:02
+Radix-wrkAhh k04:02
* Radix-wrk ate his cookie.04:02
+Radix-wrkCool.. well glad I found it and not a random visitor.04:03
@rizenme too04:03
+Radix-wrkdid you like the screenshot I sent btw.. I thought it rather poignant that the banner of me was there 'people behind webgui' indeed ;)04:06
@rizenhonestly didn't notice that part04:06
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ckotilwill the calendar asset output an ics file16:02
ckotilfor me to download.16:02
SDuensinGood morning!16:16
@preactionckotil: yes, ?func=ical18:00
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perlmonkey2Rizen you there?22:29
@rizenhow's the survey coming?22:30
perlmonkey2I'm thinking of taking all of next week off to work on the survey.22:30
perlmonkey2Has anything changed?22:30
@rizenoh, except i have a deadline for 7.422:30
@rizenwe'll be putting out the first beta on Monday July 23.22:30
@rizenAll checkins will be due July 21.22:31
perlmonkey2I should be able to make that.22:31
* SDuensin is waiting for 7.3.19. :-P22:42
@rizennever going to happen22:42
@rizenjust kidding22:42
@rizenit will either be out this week or next22:42
SDuensinAll my podcasts are 300 bytes long!22:43
@rizenis that a bug in webgui?22:43
@rizenand has it been fixed in 7.3.19?22:43
SDuensinYep.  And yep.22:43
SDuensinYou upload to a folder asset and it reports everything correctly.  Then you commit the tag and the size changes to 300 or so bytes.22:44
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ckotilpreaction: cool. mines not working...im almost certain that its due to malformed ics file00:03
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cap10morganHas anyone gotten the WRE to compile on an x86_64 machine?01:36
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+Radix_cap10morgan: no, but I managed to use the wre rhel4 binary on an x86-64 machine - just needed some extra libraries and a bit of tweaking03:47
cap10morganRadix_: yeah, may have to give that a try...03:52
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SDuensinGood morning!15:46
ckotilIm driving up to indianapolis today to install windows server 2003 w/ terminal services..yay!16:03
SDuensinOh yea.  THAT sounds fun.  :-P16:03
ckotilyeah. shouldnt be too bad.16:04
ckotilive never done it, but im pretty certain its point n click16:04
ckotilheading out. have a good day16:06
SDuensinIt's Windows.  What could _possibly_ go wrong?  :-)16:06
SDuensinLater bud!16:06
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@preactionrizen_: have you frozen for release of 7.3.19 yet?21:37
rizen_nope...it's going out next wednesday instead of today21:37
@preactionok, thanks21:37
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@preactionhow can I edit the URL of a branch? i deployed a package but now I want the sub-assets to take on the url of their parent? will edit branch do this? i've heard conflicting stories about how to accomplish this23:15
@rizenedit branch will do it23:16
@rizenhowever, right now edit branch is kind of dangerous if you need to do it on thousands of assets at once23:16
@rizenbecause it will start the process23:16
@rizenand then apache will time out23:16
@preactionjust a dozen or so, so it should be fine23:16
@rizenwe need to change edit branch to spew back it's results like the export function does23:17
@rizenAnybody out there worked with perl IO::Socket?23:17
@rizeni need help trying to figure out how to flush a buffer23:17
@rizeni want to do:23:17
@rizenprint $socket "this";23:17
@rizensleep 4;23:17
@rizenprint $socket "that";23:18
@rizenthe problem is that my content seems to be getting trapped in a buffer23:18
@preaction$io->autoflush(1); i believe23:18
@rizenit's not getting sent until the entire connection closes23:18
@preactioni think that's a part of the IO::Handle superclass23:18
@rizenthe IO::Socket documentation says that autoflush is turned on by default23:19
@rizenbut i'll give that a try23:19
@rizeni'm desperate23:19
@rizennevermind....safari is a pile of shit23:29
@rizendoing:   select $socket; $|=1; works in all browsers except safari23:30
@preactionmaybe safari itself is buffering23:33
@rizenthat's what appears to be happening23:34
@rizeni thought that died with netscape 423:35
nubajust found theres yet another wysiwyg editor http://xinha.python-hosting.com/wiki/Examples23:36
nubai just noticed fastmail.fm allows you to choose between fckeditor, htmlarea and xinha23:37
nubaso if its in the same league, i figured you may like to know it exists, if you dont already23:38
@rizenunless it somehow surpasses TinyMCE, don't really care. we do too much tight integration with the rich editor to do it for multiple rich editors23:39
@preactionlooks like it works a lot like the TinyMCE23:39
nubayeah, well, its not like im suggesting to replace the current one with it, i've only mentioned it cause it made a bleep in the radar23:42
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cap10morganwhat's the best way to login a user via the API, regardless of the auth method they use?03:31
rizen_its actually even easier than that03:42
rizen_that's it03:43
rizen_or if you already have a user object you can do03:43
cap10morganis there a way to actually authenticate them too? I'm trying to piggyback another login system on top of WebGUI03:44
rizen_that's what i'm saying....you authenticate them using whatever method you want03:46
rizen_and then once authenticated you use the thing i said above03:46
cap10morgani want them to enter their webgui username and password, then i want to ask webgui if that's right or not03:47
rizen_i see now03:47
rizen_wasn't getting that03:47
cap10morganno worries, i wasn't very clear03:47
rizen_yes use WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI::authenticate03:48
cap10morgani need to go straight to the particular auth method?03:49
cap10morgani think that's ok as i don't have any ldap users currently, but was wondering if i could future proof it a little03:49
rizen_yes...because the base auth method doesn't do passwords03:49
cap10morgani guess i could try both in sequence if i really wanted to support both methods03:49
@preactionor string eval03:49
rizen_use the logic in WebGUI::Operation::Auth to autoload the proper module03:50
@preactionor maybe WebGUI::Auth::$authType::authenticate would actually work03:50
rizen_no, WebGUI::Auth is OO03:50
rizen_so you have to create an object first03:51
rizen_then do $obj->authenticate03:51
rizen_there's a subroutine in WebGUI::Operation::Auth called getInstance that will load the proper auth module for you03:51
cap10morganhey that's pretty slick03:52
cap10morgani'll use that03:52
rizen_oops...wrong terminal03:52
cap10morganhehe :)03:52
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cap10morganis there a way to get a user object when you just have a username and password?04:03
cap10morganI see methods for userId and email, but not the username04:03
@rizenno, but there should be04:04
@rizenit's lame that we don't have that right now04:04
cap10morganso if i submit a patch, that could end up in 7.3.19? :)04:12
@rizenit's an api change04:13
@rizenso it would make it into 7.4.004:13
@rizenbut not 7.3.1904:13
cap10morganoh, ok04:13
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xdangerrizen: I have a client how wants to add the mailing-list functionality to their CS, but they only have imap4s and pop3s access to their mailserver. Do you have any ideas on how I could make that possible?11:57
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SDuensinGood morning.16:07
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AMH_bobGood morning!16:45
SDuensinHey AMH_bob 17:10
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@preactionby default assets inherit the security properties (groupIdView, groupIdEdit) of their parent, correct? without me having to explicitly do that in processPropertiesFromFormPost()?18:03
@rizeni should say that they do it on the www_add method...that way the user has a chance to override that behavior before hitting safe18:04
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wgGuest66Hi All03:24
wgGuest66I had a question that I hoped someone would have an answer to...Is WebGUI able to be an CMS with an ecommerce solution for small businesses online???03:26
@rizenyup...lots of webgui sites sell products, services, and subscriptions03:27
@rizenincluding plainblack.com03:27
@rizenthe Content Manager's Guide shows you how to set up a store03:27
wgGuest66The reason I ask is that ValueCMS hosting gives suitability criteria, and this is what their site says: 03:29
wgGuest66It won't paste...I dislike java sometimes03:30
@preactionpaste the link perhaps?03:30
@rizenlet me just go look at their site03:30
wgGuest66okay thanks03:30
wgGuest66yes that is it03:31
wgGuest66I still couldn't paste it03:31
@rizenI'm not using the java IRC client03:31
@rizeni'm connected directly03:31
@rizenanyway...the reason their site says that is because they host WebGUI 503:32
@rizenbut most of the world runs WebGUI 703:32
wgGuest66okay thanks for the fast response03:32
@rizenthey're a few years behind on upgrades03:32
wgGuest66So it is not accurate03:32
@rizenit is accurate for WebGUI 503:33
@rizenbut not for WebGUI 703:33
wgGuest66I see03:33
wgGuest66So as far as hosting goes they would not be a good choice03:33
@rizenNot if you want ecommerce03:33
wgGuest66Any suggestions outside of PlainBlack hosting03:34
@rizensince i work for plain black not really03:35
@rizencan't bite the hand that feeds03:35
wgGuest66That is okay Thanks...I just wanted something a little less expensive03:35
wgGuest66with support03:35
@preactionit seems that most of the top sites on google for "webgui hosting" are running ancient versions :(03:36
@preactiongeekuprising, valuecms, cybersalad03:36
wgGuest66cybersalad did say they would install whatever version of WebGUI you wanted to install, so there is hope, but I still have to check out support03:37
@rizensorry. i know we're not the cheapest hosting service around, but we are the best.03:38
wgGuest66Thanks Rizen for your help in understanding the dilemma I was having03:38
@rizenif  you find a good hoster you could add it to this list: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/hosters03:38
@preactioncybersalad's shared hostings says it runs under suexec, this means that the mod_perl-only versions will not work unless you get a dedicated host from them03:39
@rizenwe're the only one's listed in north america currentlyy03:39
@preactioni don't know when ecommerce was added, if it was before or after CGI was removed03:39
@preactionthat'd be a problem03:40
wgGuest66Rizen what kind of turn around from a support ticket does your company have?03:40
@rizenWebGUI 5.5 was the last version you could reliably run on cgi03:40
@rizenweb support tickets posted during business hours are generally answered in 2 hours or less03:41
wgGuest66Good response time03:41
@rizenit gets better as you go up the scale...but price does too03:41
@rizenphone support is usually answered immediately, or at most in less than 1 hour03:42
wgGuest66I have a VDS hosting provider now, and they are running FreeBSD virtual servers, is there any documentation on setting up with this config03:44
wgGuest66I tried today and I have all the requirements, but I am more Linux literate than BSD, so it is half done03:46
@rizenthere's no special documentation unless someone has put something in the wiki03:46
@rizenbut i can tell you that on FreeBSD you have to install GraphicsMagick in place of ImageMagick03:46
@rizenand change a couple of files in WebGUI, cuz FreeBSD doesn't like ImageMagick for some reason03:47
@rizenit creates seg faults03:47
@rizenbecause of this starting with WebGUI 7.4 we'll be using GraphicsMagick on all platforms instead of ImageMagick03:47
+Radix-wrkI'd recommend the WRE myself - much better and easier way of setting up WebGUI - but you'll want to use one of the binary WRE distributions if you can - that means ubuntu/rhel3/4 or OSX as the hosting platform03:48
wgGuest66Thanks Rizen my wife is calling for supper...I will be doing more research soon...Cheers03:49
+Radix-wrkhaha.. the company I work for used to be called Graphic Magic many years ago (when I first started here) :)03:49
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@preactionis graphicsmagick better than imagemagick? or just different?03:49
@preactionis that why 7.4 requires WRE 0.8?03:50
+Radix-wrkit's derived from imagemagick03:50
@preactionalso, i think i finally found a 7.x hoster: http://limedaley.com03:50
@preactionno rate information for WebGUI, of course03:50
@rizengraphics magick is a more stable api...less changes03:50
@rizenit's a fork of image magick03:51
@rizenand that's one of the reasons that 7.4 requires WRE 0.803:51
+Radix-wrkI've managed to set up webgui on a generic VPS account myself - tis how I'm hosting a few webgui setups for friends/family.03:51
@rizentechnically you'll be able to use wre 0.7.2, but you'll need to add a bunch of new modules03:51
+Radix-wrkinterestingly enough, it's all running in 256MB ram too03:51
@rizennicely done radix03:52
+Radix-wrkcentos4 box with dual athlon 64-bit processors03:52
@preactiondoes that mean we'll have an official FreeBSD WRE build? i can offer up a build platform if drip can't handle it03:52
+Radix-wrkcost me US$7.50 to try it out, so figured why not03:52
@rizenyes we will, and drip can handle it03:53
+Radix-wrkwhat's drip?03:53
@rizenit's our vmware server farm03:53
@rizenthat's used to do wre builds03:53
+Radix-wrkAhh cool03:53
+Radix-wrkvmware rocks doesn't it :)03:54
+Radix-wrkWe have a dedicated testing machine with vmware on it here and about a dozen vmware instances on it - with every kind of OS/config/language you could name for testing our own software on - it's awesome03:54
+Radix-wrksweet, you rated my RFE :)03:57
* Radix-wrk bumps it up to the top of the list. ;)03:57
+Radix-wrkI'm a bit disappointed in the lack of competition for the latest macro competition.. mine seems to be the only one so far and it wasn't that impressive. Surely someone else out there can put a macro together04:02
+Radix-wrkI'd love to do one for google maps or something, but I don't know where to start with something like that04:02
@preactiongott, i was just talking with someone who was doing that04:02
@preactionoh, jamestolley was doing that04:03
@preactionthe new full-time dev here04:03
+Radix-wrkHey.. for something like that you'd need to add stuff to the head block of the page to include the right js/stylesheets/etc.  How can you do that from a macro?04:04
@preactionshort answer: you can't04:04
@preactionbut with JS it's not an issue, they're legal anywhere04:04
+Radix-wrkyeah, I know you can embed it, but it's not as nice04:04
@preactionstyle is read anywhere, but it won't pass validation04:04
@preactionat least, i haven't found a browser yet that will ignore style inside of body, but that's subject to change should browsers ever start requiring well-formed xhtml04:05
+Radix-wrkI was hoping there was some webgui api call you could make to add to the head section04:05
+Radix-wrksince obviously assets can do that04:06
@preaction's not that, it's when macros are parsed04:06
@preactionand here i am talking on IRC for 45 minutes when i should be out doing laundry...04:08
+Radix-wrkgo do your laundry :)04:08
+Radix-wrkthanks for the chat tho :)04:09
@rizenmacros are the very last thing that's processed before the page is sent back to the browser04:12
@rizenand since the page is sent back in chunks04:12
@rizenthe head block has usually already been sent by the time your macro would get processed04:12
@rizenunless you rmacro was in the head block04:13
+Radix-wrkHmm.. so you could use a combination of macros to do it then.. a head block macro, and several page based macros..04:21
@rizeni guess that would depend on what it is you want it to do04:21
+Radix-wrkgoogle maps macros04:23
+Radix-wrkif jamestolley is working on it tho, I'll leave it, but I was considering tackling it earlier after the experience with doing the gravatar macro04:24
+Radix-wrkgoogle maps api is pretty flexible tho, so trying to encapsulate that into a single macro or even a bunch of macros would be hard04:24
+Radix-wrkI might have a look at the flickr api perhaps, see how easy that is to do04:25
@rizenwe're going to do a similar contest to this one that integrates an asset into an external service04:26
@rizenthe google maps api would be good for that one04:26
+Radix-wrkAhh, yes - you're right I guess, an asset would be a better container04:26
@rizenmacros are good for retrieving stuff in this situation, but not being interactive04:27
+Radix-wrkall stuff i want to learn, which is why I've participated in these comp's - getting me actually attempting to make a macro, etc :)04:28
@rizenexcellent..well we're glad you are participating04:30
@rizeni just wish we could get you some competition04:31
+Radix-wrkI know.. I wish there was more too - I could learn from them too :)04:31
+Radix-wrkbesides, you're going to be sick of sending me shwag bag's soon! :)04:32
@rizeni'll keep sending them to you as long as you keep winning04:32
@rizeneventually you'll be able to wear nothing but webgui tshirts04:32
@rizenand decorate your house with gooey's04:32
+Radix-wrkI haven't received the first package yet.. hoping it will come soon.04:33
+Radix-wrkWhich reminds me, I need to submit some 'Gooey On The Go' photos when I do my next photoshoot04:33
+Radix-wrkmy other hobby is photography :)04:33
@rizeni can't believe you didn't get the first one yet04:34
@rizenthat's rediculus04:34
@rizeni sent it to you 4 months ago or something like that04:34
+Radix-wrkDon't spose there was a tracking number or anything like that at all?04:34
@rizenno, i sent it ground cuz otherwise it was going to cost me $100 to airmail it04:35
+Radix-wrkWiki comp ended march 1st, so prize prolly send mid-late march? - so it'd be two-three months since sent04:36
+Radix-wrkOh no.. one month of voting too04:36
+Radix-wrkso sent mid-april - 2 months or so04:36
@rizenwiki comp was over at the end of jan04:36
@rizenand voting was over at the end of feb04:37
@rizenholy crap you're right04:37
@rizeni thought for sure we did that at the beginning of the year04:37
+Radix-wrkprolly when the planning started :)04:37
@rizenanyway..if you have a paypal account, and would prefer i can just send the money to you that way04:38
@rizenand since it will save me shipping and schwag i can up it to $300 instead of $25004:38
+Radix-wrkI have a paypal account04:38
@rizenthat way you'll get it instantly rather than having to wait months04:38
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@rizenhowdy wes04:39
@rizencan you email it to me so i don't forget it?04:39
+Radix-wrkyup, will do it now04:39
@rizeni wont' be doing it now...but probably early next week04:40
wjw61rizen you on skype?04:40
@rizeni can be04:43
@rizendo you need me to be?04:43
wjw61sorry, jamie just called and answered my question..04:46
SDuensinrizen !  Dude, I got a weird one over here.  Full images have been replaced by thumbnails!  WTF?04:47
@rizenit's the way i prefer it SD04:48
SDuensinWhy did it eat my images?04:48
SDuensinThe names are all correct in the asset manager.  When you mouse over them, some link to the thumbnail versions!04:49
+Radix-wrkthumbnails are generally displayed in the asset manager for the assets by default04:50
+Radix-wrkif you click on the thumbnail it should show the full image tho04:51
SDuensinBut why did some of the links change to the "thumb-" version?04:51
SDuensinWith over 2000 images on my other site, I'm kinda concerned!04:52
@rizenSD you can't just come on here and say "why is my site fucked up"04:52
@rizenyou haven't told us what's changed04:52
@rizendid you upgrade04:52
@rizendid you move stuff around04:52
@rizendid you put in some custom code04:52
@rizendid gremlins raid your server04:52
@rizenyou should know better04:53
@rizenif you want help, help us help you04:53
SDuensinIn order:  No.  No.  No.  Maybe.  Apparently I don't.  I'm trying!04:54
SDuensinI really don't know what to tell you.  It was fine.  Now it's not.  I wasn't even working on it.04:54
SDuensinFor grins, I tried a rebuildLineage.  Didn't do squat.  Apparently the lineage is fine.04:56
@rizenwell stuff like that doesn't just happen04:56
@rizensomeone did something04:56
@rizenconsult the assetHistory table04:56
@rizenand see if it has any answers for you04:56
SDuensinUh.  Ok.  Please wait.  :-)04:57
SDuensinSomething happened.  Dunno what.05:00
SDuensinHow would you even perform an edit like that?05:00
SDuensinThe original title and name were "l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg".  Now the "Current File" says "thumb-l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg".05:02
@rizenwhere are you seeing that?05:02
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SDuensinOnly way I can think to do it would be to download the thumbnail and re-upload it.05:02
SDuensinIn the asset manager on the "Edit Image" page.05:03
@rizenyeah i got that05:03
@rizeni don't mean generally05:03
@rizenwhat field displays it?05:03
SDuensin"Title" and "Menu Title" are "l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg" as expected.  Current File is "thumb-l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg".05:03
@rizenclick on the thumbnail and find out the actual url of the file05:04
@rizennow do:05:04
@rizencd /data/domains/vgstest.jaegertech.net/public/uploads/rZ/UY/rzUY..../05:05
@rizenand find out what's in that folder05:05
@rizeninteresting...now look at the revision history (through the asset manager) of this asset05:07
@rizenand see when it was last edited05:07
@rizenand by who05:07
@rizenand look at the old version and see if it's messed up05:07
SDuensinTwo revisions, both by me.  Newest one is wrong, old one is fine.05:08
@rizenand when was the new one created?05:08
SDuensin6/2/07 @ 9:43AM05:08
SDuensinIf I click the "X", will that roll it back?05:09
@rizenso it's been screwed up for quite some time then05:09
SDuensinGuess so.05:09
SDuensinVery weird.05:09
@rizengotta go. be back in a few hours05:11
SDuensinThanks bud.  I'm still your #1 fan.  :-)05:11
+Radix-wrkget in line bud!05:19
* Radix-wrk takes a peek at SD's website and recognises pjesi's theme with a few tweaks :)05:20
+Radix-wrkSD: notice you're trying to hide the account login portion - one little thing I've been playing with of late is concealing the whole login/adminbar stuff in hidden/visible divs - then using javascript to display it if a little button is pressed05:23
+Radix-wrkthere's still a bug in my javascript somewhere - but you're welcome to take a look at it if you wanted and borrow the same idea for your site05:24
+Radix-wrkhttp://www.juga.biz - there's a tiny little corner piece in the top right part of the style - you need to click it twice the first time tho for it to work (that's the bug)05:25
SDuensinI found the problem!05:26
SDuensinIf I edit the URL of an uploaded picture and commit it, it screws it up.05:26
+Radix-wrkHmm.. interesting - sounds like a bug05:27
* SDuensin agrees05:27
SDuensinThat's two bugs I've found!  I'll post it later - I gotta run.05:27
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+perlDreamerwhat's WGBP for returning sets of objects if one of the set isn't an object?07:34
+perlDreamerDoes it throw a fatal, or  log a warning, or what?07:34
@rizensets of objects07:52
@rizenand one isn't an object07:52
@rizencan you give me an example?07:52
+perlDreamerLike getting a set of objects from WebGUI::Workflow::Instance, where one of the array members is undef07:54
@rizenthe method that generates the list should be checking for the validity of the objects that it's creating07:55
@rizenremoving them from the list if they are invalid07:55
@rizenand throwing an error to the log07:56
+perlDreamerWill do, probably tomorrow07:56
+perlDreamertomorrow --bug07:57
@rizenhey...you can't count that07:57
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SDuensinGood morning.15:43
+Radix_evenin' 15:56
* SDuensin just filed a bug report for his weird image issue.16:03
+Radix_Oh, susanb already posted it16:04
+Radix_she posted it last week16:04
+Radix_I ran into the same bug today myself16:04
+Radix_all I did was change the template used on an image and it screwed up16:04
SDuensinWell, fix it so we all quit posting about it!   :-P16:07
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AMH_bobGood morning from the beautiful town of Valkenswaard!16:15
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diakoptergood morning from Wichita, KS.17:39
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+perlDreamerSDuensin, you have to submit __unique__ bugs to bug++ :)21:03
+perlDreamerIt would be cool if perlbot couldn't those automatically21:03
@preactionperlbot karma bug21:14
perlbotbug doesn't have any karma21:14
@preactionperlbot karma bug21:14
perlbotKarma for bug: 121:14
@preactionperlbot karma bug21:14
perlbotKarma for bug: 121:14
@preactionit would if you used postfix like normal people21:15
+perlDreamerUsing perl makes me lazy21:17
+perlDreamerprefix guarantees no mystery behavior21:17
+perlDreamerSDuensin, that's a nasty bug21:28
+perlDreamerThe good news is that the original file isn't being altered21:28
+perlDreamerIt's just the filename21:28
+perlDreamerIt's taking the thumbnail filename instead of its original filename21:28
SDuensinYea.  Major pain.  :-)21:29
SDuensinIf I fix my URLs, I break my images!21:29
+perlDreamerReally weird.22:23
+perlDreamerSmall images don't seem to trigger it22:23
+perlDreamerJust large ones22:23
+perlDreamerMaybe it's just intermittent.22:23
SDuensinHappened to me every time.  Gotta commit though.22:25
+perlDreamerI had one without commit happen22:31
+perlDreamerum, I had one happen without committing22:31
SDuensinWow.  Proactive of it.  :-)22:32
+perlDreamerWell, I did go back and edit the URL before I committed it22:32
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dhelstenHey guys, I'm not a programmer, but would like to keep more up to date with webgui happenings. 23:50
@rizenare you saying you'd like to contribute?23:53
@rizenor just hang out?23:53
@rizenor something else?23:53
dhelstenIn the forums I've read about JT's plans for the overhaul of the SQLform into "Thingy".  I've been tasked with moving some simple MSAccess data onto the web.  I'd prefer to use Webgui on an existing site but I haven't seen enough documentation on SQLform to know if it will do the trick.  Right now I'm toying with coghead and zoho creator to do the job.  Any timeline on the "Thingy"?23:54
@rizenit is being worked on, but no..no timeline23:56
@rizenmy guess is not until fall 23:56
dhelstenWould it be worth it to try and create something in SQLform or just wait?  ie will there be an upgrade path?23:57
@rizenthere won't be an upgrade path23:57
@rizenthey are very different beasts23:57
--- Day changed Sat Jun 23 2007
dhelstenMy main goal is to be able to display a single record (ie contact info) and inside of the form for that record to display multiple related records based on critera (ie name of last 5 events they attended)  This would require 3 tables "contact info" "attendance" "events".  Is this something SQLform can do well?  Is this something that Thingy will be able to do?00:04
@rizensorry for the delay..had a phone call00:23
@rizenThe thingy will be able to do it, and i'm pretty sure that SQL Form could as well00:24
@rizenin general though coghead and zoho creator will be better apps for you than SQL Form00:26
@rizenthe only advantage SQL Form gives you is that it's in WebGUI00:26
@rizenThingy wil be more like the other two00:26
dhelstenThanks for the info.  Now I just need to decide if it can wait.  The data isn't terribly complex so perhaps I will build it in one and then migrate.  Thanks for the info00:56
dhelstenIn terms of my intentions, I'd really like to get more into webgui but some of the docs are thin (I learn by example and need more "lets build a page that looks like this and does that" type of documentation")01:00
dhelstenI have a webgui-run site at http://newcastlecapital.com  01:01
@rizenhave you got the Content Managers Guide?01:02
dhelstenI bought a WGDR subscription about a year ago.   01:02
dhelstenI just purchased the CMG01:02
dhelstenI was rather disappointed.01:02
@rizendisappointed with CMG?01:03
@rizenor WDR?01:03
@rizenor both?01:03
dhelstenBoth actually and the CMG just seemed like a simple reworking of the CMG01:03
dhelstenWDR that is01:04
dhelstenThey are both coming from a reference perspective which doesn't work for me.01:05
@rizenYou're the first person that has told me they were disappointed with the CMG01:05
@rizenwhat are you talking about....they literally show you how to do stuff01:06
@rizenstep by step01:06
@rizenstep 1 do this01:06
@rizenstep 2 do that01:06
@rizenthere are dozens and dozens of step by step lists in CMG01:06
dhelstenThis is true, there are many step by step lists just as the videos in the WDR were had all of the steps.01:08
dhelstenMy feeling is that the overall approach seems a bit backward.  01:09
@rizenif it were reference oriented it would just tell you what the fields are01:09
@rizenok...we want to improve it, so could you tell me how it could be better? what should we be doing differently?01:09
dhelstenTo me it feels like it was written with the intent of explaining what every asset (or macro) in webgui does.01:11
dhelstenFor example:  01:11
dhelstenCollaboration System - Use this asset if you want to create something which you can use to collaborate with others. 01:13
dhelstenThe steps to creating this are "Step 1" Step 2 Step 301:13
dhelstenThis is why I said that it seems more like a reference book, because you start with the asset.01:14
@rizenbut then it goes on and shows you how to use it for job postings, photo galleries, and more01:15
dhelstenThat is correct.  01:15
dhelstenBut you still are starting with the asset first01:15
dhelstenTo me that is reference.01:15
dhelstenLet me use photoshop as an example01:16
@rizenok...so to you that means reference, but you're not saying what is bad about it01:16
@rizenyou say you want to be shown how to do something01:16
dhelstenExactly right.01:16
@rizenand it does show you how to create a photo gallery for example01:16
@rizenand if you look in the table of contents, photo gallery is one of the itemms01:16
@rizenso you can jump straight to that page01:16
@rizenand start reating01:16
@rizenso what am i missing?01:17
dhelstenI make up that you are pretty defensive about this and perhaps not willing to follow my thoughts well so I'm not sure how productive this exchange will be for either of us.01:18
nubai agree with dhelsten about the way the exchange is going01:20
nubai think it started around this point:01:20
nuba14:04 <@rizen> what are you talking about....they literally show you how to do stuff01:20
nubadhelsten: you can still elaborate on your feedback and post it here, tho01:22
@rizenyou're right, i am being defensive...but not for the reason that you think01:22
@rizeni'm being defensive because you keep saying that it's "a reference" and that's not good, but so far you have yet to say what we could do to make it better01:22
@rizenyou keep talking and say nothing01:22
@rizenso i'm not defensive so much as i feel like this conversation is wasting my time01:23
@rizeni'll shut up now and let you talk...i'd just like you to give me a concrete example of what should have been there that you didn't find01:23
dhelstenMy purpose is not to waste your time and if you have other things to do, then by all means do them.  I'll go ahead and post my feedback and you can read it at your leisure.01:25
nubadhelsten: the point is, please elaborate on your feedback01:27
nubaa good feedback is always appreciated01:27
dhelstenI was going to give a photoshop example because that is an area that I'm more familiar with.  While I have built a webgui site, it was mostly by rebuiding the demo site.  Now the example01:27
nubagood as is thought-of, and logically sound01:28
@rizennuba: thank you for moderating the discussion01:28
nubamy pleasure01:28
dhelstenFirst off, in the CMG I was hoping for tutorials.01:29
dhelstenIn photoshop a tutorial would mean "lets change the background color of the sky"01:29
dhelstenHere is what we do:  First select the magic wand tool.01:30
dhelstenSecond, change the tolerance to 3001:30
dhelstenThird create a new layer by doing such and such01:31
dhelsten23 use the color picker to choose a dark blue color....01:31
dhelstenIn a tutorial as I define it, there is a clear objective that will demostrate the use of multiple tools01:32
@rizenyup i get it...now tell me something you'd want to do in webgui that wasn't explained in the book?01:33
dhelstenIf we liken tools in photoshop to the various prebuilt packages in webgui (Gallery, Wiki)01:33
@rizenjust the objective01:33
@rizenyou don't have to tell me how to do it..i just want the goal that was missing01:33
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dhelstenThen I would like a tutorial that as its objective would be to create a complete web page01:34
dhelstenFrom start to finish01:35
dhelstenIt would go step by step from creating a simple style, a simple page template, a simple css snippet,01:35
dhelstenadding a simple custom CS asset, and a simple navigation element.01:36
dhelstenIt wouldn't need to be pretty, but show how everthing ties together. 01:37
@rizenyou're talking about design01:37
@rizenthat's a whole seperate book01:37
@rizenit's coming out at the end of july01:37
@rizenthis is the content managers guide...not the designers guide01:38
nubai think the key here i think is the 'tie together' part01:38
@rizenand it does show you how to create a page from beginning to end page 9-1301:38
nubadhelsten: do you know oreilly's "in a nutshell" book series ?01:39
@rizeneverything he's asking for is covered both as reference and tutorial in the designers guide01:39
dhelstenYes I'm familiar with the series01:40
nubait looks like you were expecting more like the "cookbook" series, then01:41
nubanow, have this in mind,01:41
dhelstenNuba, I think you've got it.  I learn by example that introduces me to sever elements and how they interact01:41
nubaunlike photoshop, webgui assets aren't so close knit together01:41
nubaand actually the ways they can relate are just a bunch01:42
dhelstenThis is true but the interactions between Page Templates, Style Templates, snippets and the prebuilt assets are closely related 01:43
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@rizeni think that the reason you are disappointed here is not because the content you're looking for is missing, but rather because you've got the wrong book01:43
dhelstenI guess I misread the intended audience of the CMG.  01:43
@rizenCMG is about publishing, and once you're in the publishing process you're not doing css, navigation, etc01:44
nubadhelsten: so you think these could have been better explained in the book ?01:44
nubawith a "in a nutshell" state of mind ?01:44
@rizenthe designers guide is over 300 pages talking exclusively about HTML, CSS, templates, snippets, navigation, styles, page layouts, and how they relate together01:45
@rizenand more than half the book is "cookbook" style documentation01:45
nubarizen: the designers guide description sounds cool to me01:45
nubarizen: but i'd miss some explanation in a "nutshell" kind of book too01:46
@rizenwell maybe at some point we'll have to make an "in a nutshell" book, but at this point i think we need to get the main documentation out there01:46
@rizenfirst was CM Guide01:46
nubaie. at least someting illustrating how the asset relate to a template01:46
@rizensecond is designers01:46
@rizenthird is admin01:46
@rizenfourth is Commerce01:46
@rizenwhat you just said is included in the design book01:47
nubasuppose I already know plenty of html, css, etc.01:47
@rizeni guess i should say it this way01:47
@rizenif it's about how something looks, then it's in the design book01:47
nubaand I only want to know how that fits into the webgui's way 01:48
@rizenif it's about the content, regardless of how it looks, then it's in the cm book01:48
nubaok. where would go a general map of webgui ?01:48
@rizenwhat do you mean "general map"01:48
nubahow things relate, where should I look while in the task of understanding the next hop in my quest to build a site with webgui from start to finish01:49
nubawhere start would be a fresh install ready and working01:49
nubanot from the "compiling WRE" start01:49
nubageneral map as in "big picture"01:49
@rizenthe getting started guide in the wiki01:49
@rizenbecause if you're at that phase01:49
@rizenyou likely haven't bought documentation yet01:49
nubai think thats related to how dhelsten got frustrated01:50
dhelstenyes.  nuba spot on.01:50
nubahe got each tool explained thoroughly01:50
dhelstenbut didn't know where to start01:50
@rizenwhere you start is entirely based upon your perspective01:51
@rizenare you an admin, are you a designer, are you a cm?01:51
@rizenare you building a store?01:51
@rizenand in your case, you may be all those people01:51
nubaa couple of "starting your website" examples would be cool01:51
dhelstenI think for me just a good walk through of how the demo (starting) site is tied together would be a good start. 01:52
@rizeni just don't understand what would go into that sort of thing 01:53
nubaie. i always start with a clean design and build the tree, then go about adding content with articles, then the non-articles assets, then work on my CSS w/ other programs then back to turn it into a (set of) webgui templates, then build the final navigation.01:53
nubajust look at that paragraph01:53
nubasuppose we would specialize it a bit more01:53
@rizennuba: what you just said is all covered in the designers guide01:53
nubaturn into three paragraphs01:54
nubachoose a specific kind of website to elaborate on the idea01:54
dhelstenIf that is what is in the designer's guide then great, sign me up!01:54
nubawell if I already know all about html, css, etc. it would suck for me to buy a book just for that01:55
@rizenthose are each just chapters in that book01:55
nubamaybe its a couple of pages you could include in all books in the series :)01:55
@rizenit doesn't make sense to do that01:55
@rizena content manager simply does not design anything 01:55
@rizenadding that to the cm guide would only confuse your average content manager01:55
nubarizen: heh well im afraid in brazil people have to wear sooo many hats that its really alien to see things sliced that way :D01:56
@rizenthe problem that you guys are having, and that i seem to be failing to get across is that you are BOTH roles01:56
@rizenyes...that's what i'm saying01:56
@rizenso why the hell would i put designers content into the cm guide01:56
@rizen[if you're both roles01:56
@rizenthen you need both books01:56
nubanot quite01:57
nubalet me elaborate01:57
nubain my example of paragraph-big cookbook: >i always start with a clean design and build the tree, then go about adding content with articles, then the non-articles assets, >>> then work on my CSS w/ other programs then back to turn it into a (set of) webgui templates <<< then build the final navigation.01:59
nubasee the >> stuff indicated <<<01:59
nubai would handle the designer a book teaching him html, css, and whatever01:59
dhelstenI agree, when I hear "designer", CSS comes to mind, not really the design of the "webgui structure"02:00
@preactionwhat good is knowing html/css without knowing how to use it with webgui?02:01
nubain my opinion, webdesigner ia a thing, information architecture is another, much more close to the content manager's role than to the webdesigner's role02:01
@rizenthis going nowhere. until you can see the designers book then you can't comment on it. i've read it. i know what's there and what's not. once it's out we can do this conversation again and you can tell me what's missing02:03
nubais there a TOC online or anything ?02:04
@rizenthe book has not been released yet02:05
@rizeni told you it's coming out at the end of july02:05
nubaTOC = table of contents02:05
nubaor summary02:05
nubaor whatever02:05
nubais it still in the works ?02:05
@rizeni just said no02:05
dhelstenI look forward to it.  I think it will be helpful to getting up and running.  Frankly, there is some basic stuff I don't know. 02:06
nubawell, to wrap it up, dhelsten: it looks like you purchased a reference book, "nutshell" style, while you were hoping for a site building tutorial, la "cookbook" series, right ?02:07
dhelstenI think that is part of it.  Also, didn't have a clear understanding of content manager vs designer02:07
dhelstenIf both had been out and the time I made the purchase, I definitely would have recognized that it was02:08
nubarizen: it seems to me you have a very strict and clear idea about separation of roles02:08
nubarizen: maybe if you could elaborate more on that in the material promoting the books,02:08
dhelstenthe designer book that I needed.02:08
nubait would be cool02:08
dhelstenI've gone back and reread the blurb on lulu.  It isn't inaccurate.  Since it was the only book out at the time, I guess thought it would cover more bases.  Now I see that it is just the tip of the iceburg02:10
dhelstenAs for specific comments on the book, I will say that the font could be smaller and the inside margin was pretty close to the spine.02:14
dhelstenSince it does go asset by asset, having the asset name at the top or bottom of the page would have been helpful for thumbing through.02:14
@rizenexcellent comments02:15
@rizeni also think that the font is HUGE, unfortunately we are required to use that size font02:15
@rizenwe work with a lot of schools and governments that have regulations on it for vision impaired people02:16
nubai see02:16
@rizenalso, apparently middle aged people (45+) with eyesight on the way out find it much easier to read02:17
@rizeni've actually received emails and phone calls from people thanking me for the big font02:19
dhelstenAnother comment:  While the step by step is very thorough, it is also repetitive.  I would take out the steps that are common to all assets02:24
@rizenwe thought about that too02:24
@rizenthe problem is that most people don't read it cover to cover02:24
@rizenso if they had to skip around they'd be disappointed02:24
@rizenmost people use it as a tutorial to learn exactly what they need to do right now, and then put the book away02:25
dhelstenI figured as much.   02:25
@rizenit's hard pleasing everyone02:26
dhelstenIt is now clear to me that this really is a book for an end user who never really sees the inner workings02:26
dhelstenIn that context I don't have as many complaints.02:27
@rizeni swear to you that the other book is exactly what you are looking for02:27
@rizenit covers everything you and nuba asked about02:27
dhelstenFrankly, I don't even know how to set up the tree.  For example:  Do I leave the templates in the import node or copy them out?  create new templates in the import node or do I create a separate folder? outside or inside the home directory?  etc? 02:30
nubawell i like cookbooks more than nutshells02:30
nubai only have the perl nutshell one cause it came with the perl cd bookshelf02:31
nubacookbooks solving interesting problems with sound and clever strategy, thats much more fun !! :)02:31
dhelstenI hope the designer book discusses the tree and architecture of the site.  I'd also like to see a strategy section related to building asset trees that work in clever ways with navigation.02:33
@rizenboth are discussed02:34
dhelstenI can't wait until July and have one more question.  Right now I have a Blog CS inside of a Page Layout.  However you click on a story, the link goes straight to the story and I loose the page layout.  How do I make it open inside of the same page layout?02:38
@rizenyou have to make sure that the style on the CS is the same as the style on the page02:38
dhelstenThe styles are the same.  Let me give two links for an example. http://newcastlecapital.com/en/recent-events1102:40
dhelstenGo to this one, then click on one of the stories.  02:40
@rizenyour style doesn't include the things on the left, does it?02:42
dhelstenNo it doesn't. 02:43
@rizenif it's not part of the style, then why would you assume that the posts would have it on the page?02:44
dhelstenI figured that the posts would use the same page layout as the master cs02:44
@rizenyou are confusing "page layout" with style02:45
@rizenpage layout is just an asset that displays other assets02:45
@rizenin this case you told it to display the content of the collaboration system02:45
@rizenbut the posts are not the collaboration system..they are each their own assets02:46
@rizenthreads can be moved from one CS to another via cut/paste, therefore they aren't part of the same asset02:46
@rizenthe page layout will only retain it's content so long as you are viewing the URL of the page layout02:47
@rizenbut when you move away from that URL then you're just dealing with whatever the asset is02:47
@rizenit may be another page layout02:47
@rizenit may just be a thread02:47
dhelstenSo am I essentially creating one style per page if I want anything other than the content to look differnt02:48
@rizenif every page in your site needs to look differently then i suppose you are creating one style per page02:49
@rizenmore likely though you'd be creating a style for the entire site, or a style per section02:49
nubai guess i'd love to see yet another book.. this one would be "designing webgui: project decisions and application design, architecture, etc. how it came to be like that, the gory details, etc.. " :)02:50
nuba"hacking webgui" would be cool too02:50
nubalike, the nasty apps people were doing with SQL report back in the day... :D02:51
dhelstenSo in general, all nav elements as I'm using them should be part of the style, right?02:51
nubaall you needed was a database, the database link, and a SQL Report w/ "preprocess macros on query" checked. and there you would go building your webapp in 10 minutes :)02:52
dhelstenI've been too stingy with the style templates.  I had the impression that it was one style per site and was trying to do things with the Page Layout that it isn't supposed to do.  Thanks for the info.  02:55
dhelstenTime to head home.  I appreciate your comments rizen and look forward to the next guide.  Nuba thanks for helping to clarify my disjointed thoughts.  02:56
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nubarizen: i have a webgui-based project im starting and I know I'll have to do some coding, and I'd like to contribute with as much as possible of whatever's created back to webgui. so I wonder if I could discuss this with you a bit03:11
@rizensure, shoot03:11
nubaok, let me outline the project a bit. this is a grant i've got from the government, to build a portal dedicated to whats called by unesco 'untangible heritage'03:12
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nubai need a map, in which it should be possible to add points or lines with comments, and links03:14
nubafor that i plan to use google maps' api03:14
@rizensweet, i've been wanting to build this myself forever03:14
@rizenjust haven't had time03:14
nubathe map people will use to add content like "i went to this place and saw that and that piece of intangible cultural heritage"03:15
nubaand i want them to do add content based on the map03:15
nubabut that should be tied somehow to something like a wiki (?)03:15
nubapeople would submit videos, audio, images03:16
nubain a interface somehow like flickr's 03:16
nubaa good gallery03:16
nubawith a good zoom03:16
nubanot sure if the best bet is the USS asset03:16
nubai've been thinking of a specialized media-management asset03:16
nubaso you have a random piece of media03:16
nubaand you create attributes based on what you want to manage there03:17
nubathen go on adding content and filling the fields03:17
nubaso, some annotated gallery03:17
nubaand you would need to manage sets of content03:17
nubaarbitrary sets03:17
nubaor sets created by queries on the attributes03:18
nubathat would be for the media03:18
nubaso there we have, a map interface, a gallery, let me see..03:18
nubajust a setc.03:18
nubaoh, text content is "media" i have to handle too, just for completeness' sake03:19
nubaalso, i want to make it as multilingual as possible03:20
nubais there any elegant way to handle that yet ? or just copy the branch and translate ?03:20
nubaor maybe tonnes of calls to text snippets..03:21
nubaand on the media management thing,03:21
nubai would need some content review/comment/approval cycle03:21
nubawhich i suppose could be handled just fine with the current workflow03:22
nubawe have03:22
nubain webgui :)03:22
nubaso, what do you think ?03:22
nubathats about it, outline-wise.03:22
@rizenwell in order to really be usable i think it will all have to be it's own asset03:23
@rizenrather than trying to integrate the map with a bunch of other assets that have no idea what you're talking about03:23
nubawell i think it could be reduced to two assets, 1) map thing, 2) media management thing03:24
@rizenas far as the multi-lingual thing that pretty much is irrelevant in a site where users are posting their own content...they're going to post in whatever their language is03:24
@rizenbut didn't you say that they create a peg on a map and then attach text and photo gallery to it?03:25
nubafor 2), think this: how would you approach the flickr into webgui problem ?03:25
@rizenwe're already doing it03:25
@rizeni'm 85% sure it will be released with WebGUI 7.503:26
nubacool. wow. can I help?03:26
@rizenfrank is in charge of that project so you'd have to ask him03:26
nubaok, i'll contact him03:26
@rizenpreaction, do you know anything about the flickr project, or is that all frank?03:27
nubaand what about the google maps one ?03:30
nubawhat did you have in mind ?03:30
nubamy idea would be to add content in one part of the website, then in the map they would click and add a link to that content03:31
nubaor draw a line03:31
nubaand add comment there too03:31
@rizenthe google maps app that i have planned is slightly different03:31
nubareally `a la google maps for directions or whatever03:32
@rizenyou create the asset and set a who can add group, which might be only CMs or might be your site visitors03:32
@rizenanyway, the asset is then committed03:32
@rizenand works just like google maps03:32
@rizenexcept that as a user with the right privileges, you can put a pin into the map  by zooming to the right location and then placing the pin03:33
@rizenupon placing the pin you can enter in a title, an address, a phone number, a description, a link, and a photo03:34
@rizenall fields are optional except title03:34
@rizenonce you've hit save and it's been approved, the pin stays on the map for all other users to see03:34
nubai'd like to do that03:34
@rizenthis can be used for a few things03:35
nubai can see my need satisfied by a subset of your specs03:35
@rizenin the case of webgui.org, webgui users could tell us where they are from03:35
@rizenin the case of a manufacturer, they could use it to show off all their store locations03:35
@rizenthe same goes for a restaurant03:35
nubain my case, people would add media and tell where did it came from with the map03:36
@rizenall  their restaurants could show up on their map03:36
@rizenthe only thing i'd like to add to it and that i haven't figured out yet03:36
@rizenis i'd like to be able to do a regional search03:36
@rizenin the US it woudl be a zip code search03:36
@rizenin canada it would be a postal code03:36
@rizennot sure what other countries would use03:37
nubai have some ideas03:37
nubaie. you can draw regions in the map03:37
nubagive it a name03:37
@rizenoh really?03:37
@rizenthat's awesome03:37
nubaand compute if a given pin is inside it03:37
@rizenwell anyway...the search part is the last part of my spec03:38
nubai can write that03:38
nubaactually not sure about being easy at the interface03:38
@rizenif you wrote it to spec, i'd even send you some money03:38
nubabut the algorithm to compute if its inside the area isnt going to be complicated03:38
nubaplease send me the spec03:39
nubai can send you some code samples03:39
nubaand we can discuss this further03:39
@rizeni don't have one written03:39
@rizenjust that03:39
@rizeni'll have to write one03:39
@rizeni just don't know when i'll have the time03:39
@rizentime's tight these days03:39
@rizenif i wrote the spec this sunday03:40
@rizendo you think you could have it done in time for the 7.4 release?03:40
@rizenwhich is July 2003:40
nubawhen is 7.4 scheduled for ?03:40
@rizenJuly 20 is the cut off date for new features03:40
@rizenthat's about a month03:40
@rizenlike a 20% possibly or a 80% possibly?03:41
nubawould like to see the spec and research a few hours before commiting to anything03:41
@rizenyou're not committing...i just need to know the likelihood so i can determine whether to write the spec now, or if it can wait a couple weeks03:42
nubabut i'd say like 80%+ or so03:42
@rizenok, then, i guess i'm working on Sunday03:42
nubaoh well03:42
@rizentwas going to be my first day off in a few weeks, but oh well03:42
@rizenit will be worth it to get this into webgui03:42
nubawell whats the schedule for 7.5 ?03:43
@rizenthere isn't one yet03:49
@rizendue to our new stability policy we can't set one03:49
@rizenwe can't declare 7.4 stable until all the bugs on the bug list have been cleared 2 weeks after it's release03:49
@rizenand we can't branch for 7.5 until 7.4 is stable03:50
@rizenthe reason that frank will be working on flickr for 7.5 is because a client has paid us to write it and backport it to 7.404:01
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+perlDreamerPB-type people: I need some help with a bug fix.04:46
+perlDreamerI fixed the thumbnail related bug, where if people edited an Image, it started using the thumbnail as the file instead of the original.04:46
+perlDreamerBut I don't know how to fix it via an upgrade script.04:47
@rizenou can't04:47
+perlDreamerThat's what I was afraid of04:48
@rizenpeople will just have to manually fix the ones that are broken04:48
+perlDreamerDo you want that in the gotchas, or in the bug report?04:48
@rizeni guess you could test every single file/image asset in the system and see if it starts with thumb-04:48
@rizenand then remove the thumb-04:48
@rizenbut that could take a really long time for what is likely a very minor problem04:48
@rizenyeah, both bugs and gotchas04:49
+perlDreamerWill do.04:49
+perlDreamerWe're back into the bug-side-effect bugs.04:49
+perlDreamerFixing a bug introduces a new bug.04:49
nubarizen: so the next step re: the google map asset is you contacting me with a spec, right ?04:50
@rizenyes i'll send you an email with the spec04:50
@rizenactually just send me an email now though so i know i have your email addy04:50
nubaok, in the meanwhile i'll get myself familiar with it04:50
nubaremember google maps allows you to use custom maps too, its not restricted to google's only04:55
nubaactually the best would be for you to check this while spec'ing04:56
nubaso you'll know what it can or can't do04:57
+perlDreamerIn the new, snazzier looking bug forum, what do the symbols in the left column mean?04:57
@rizenread or undread04:57
+perlDreamerI can file a bug for this, but there's something off in the Contribute bug display.  It's showing a bug that I closed, and that does not show up in the bug list anymore.04:58
@rizenyup file a report04:58
+perlDreamerThat page rocks, b.t.w.05:00
+perlDreamerYou get a 1 page summary of everything that's going no.05:00
+perlDreamerI love it!05:00
@rizenyeah, i saw it on some other site and thought to myself that we really needed something like that05:02
+perlDreamerbugs --05:03
+perlDreamerkarma bugs05:03
+perlDreamerperlbot: karma bugs05:03
perlbotKarma for bugs: -205:03
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cap10morganIs there a way to add fields to a DataForm using the API?04:22
@preactiondoesn't look like it04:23
@preactionthe entire code for the dataform looks in dire need of a refactor and a whole slew of documentation04:23
@preactionbut JT's building the Thingy to replace it, so I imagine that won't get done04:23
cap10morganthe Thingy, eh?04:25
cap10morganthat sounds exciting04:25
cap10morganand, er, vague04:25
@preactionit's basically a general-purpose database management tool04:27
@preactionyou set up the db, you create the forms, you create the permissions, you create reports from the data, etc...04:27
@preactionwe couldn't get a decent description04:27
@preactionjust like the collaboration system04:27
cap10morgansounds cool though04:32
@preactioni hope04:32
cap10morganis there a decent way to get a new id computed when you have a collision? (i.e. inserting things straight into the db)04:32
cap10morgani'm trying to migrate some dataform fields via a script04:33
@preactionuse WebGUI::Session::Id04:33
cap10morganoh sweet, thanks04:34
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nubaits so quiet here on sundays01:58
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SDuensinGood morning.15:49
AMH_bobGood morning!16:39
SDuensinHi AMH_bob 16:40
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+perlDreamerrizen: I need a bug consult.  Got 10 minutes?00:24
+perlDreamerthis is the bug: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/cs-branch-error00:25
@rizenok, what is your question00:27
@rizenincidentally there are multiple bugs here00:28
@rizennone of those assets should allow isHidden to be anything other than Yes00:28
+perlDreamerSo if Erik wants to be able to, he needs an RFE00:28
+perlDreamerThat's my question then.00:29
+perlDreamerThanks, man!00:29
@rizeni won't allow it00:29
@rizeneven if he makes the RFE00:29
+perlDreamerI'll fix all three asset/container combinations for isHidden, probably by sticking it into update instead of addRev or processProperties.00:29
+perlDreamerOkay, rizen. I'll pass that along.00:29
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+perlDreamerpreaction: art thou awake this eve?07:36
+perlDreamerrizen: the isHidden fixes are in for Post, Event and WikiPage.07:37
+perlDreamerbug --07:37
@rizenegg salad07:37
+perlDreameregg salad?07:38
@rizen= good07:38
@rizenexcellent 07:38
+perlDreamerclosed a bug fixed a while ago07:42
+perlDreamerbtw, Haarg.  Nice work backporting that fix to
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+Radix-wrksweet, got lightbox working with webgui11:06
+Radix-wrkhttp://juga.biz/home/test - test page with both an individual image and photo gallery with lightbox11:07
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SDuensinHello all!16:08
@rizenwho is all?16:09
SDuensinUm.  Us?16:09
SDuensinI mean, really - who else do you need?16:09
@rizenwell perhaps you meant a user named all that isn't here16:10
@rizenor perhaps you meant all creatures in the universe16:10
SDuensinNa.  Just the smart ones.16:11
@rizenor perhaps you mean Al, but added an extra L16:11
@rizenor perhaps a.l.l. is an acronym16:11
@rizenor perhaps i'm just being an ass16:11
SDuensinWeird A.L.L. runs WebGUI?   Sweet!16:11
@rizenif a.l.l. were an acronym i think it would mean "astute lounge lizards"16:12
SDuensinLeisure Suit Larry!16:12
@rizenor perhaps "acrobatic lilac llamas"16:12
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AMH_bobGood morning! I see y'all woke up in a good mood!16:35
+Radix_I've been awake for hours! :)16:36
SDuensinI've been in a car for hours!16:36
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rizen_radix, nice work17:02
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@rizenon the lightbox thing17:02
SDuensinLightbox thing?17:03
@rizenhttp://juga.biz/home/test 17:03
@rizeni tested it on safari 3 this morning and it worked great17:03
SDuensinLooks familiar.  :-)    http://new.duensing.com/rylee/photos/age2/new-swingset17:04
SDuensinI don't have the same level of fancyness displaying the images, but I also allow for grouping of images into sets that can be paged through and to display captions (which that page doesn't show).17:05
SDuensinStill, it looks good.  I like the way it "unrolls" to the proper size.17:05
@rizenyeah, but it's cooler when radix does it, because his doesn't have a picture of a kid17:06
@rizenit has a picture of the webgui site17:06
SDuensinWhat's the best way to package something like that up to share with people?  For my own sites, I'm using a wpkg.17:11
@rizenthat's the best way17:12
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SDuensinNo problems with endians and such?17:13
@rizencuz webgui package uses JSON to store data17:14
SDuensinMaybe I'll document the crazy thing then.  :-)17:16
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+perlDreamerIs the web interface to SVN down?19:56
+perlDreamerhttps://svn.webgui.org gives me a 443 error (Forbidden)19:56
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@preactionnot down for me20:04
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+perlDreamerI tweaked the proxy settings to runnel IRC and IM through, I wonder if I broke https...20:08
+perlDreamerpreaction: thanks20:08
@preactionthe error shouldn't be 443, it should be 40320:09
@preactionperlbot port 44320:09
perlbotport 443: https - http protocol over TLS/SSL20:09
@preactionwhich is an interesting coincidence20:09
+perlDreamerno, you're right.  I mistyped earlier.20:09
+perlDreamer403 error on port 44320:10
@preactiondarn, i thought i had the makings of a mystery!20:10
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+perlDreamerwell, you could solve the mystery of the incorrect Apache proxy for me :)20:12
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@preactiondurned if i know, not an expert much over here :(20:15
+perlDreamerme, too20:18
+perlDreamerpreaction: I did some Event hacking last night to fix a bug with isHidden.  In 7.4, I had to add the update subroutine back in.  Do you happen to know why it was taken out?  Would you mind giving the new code a once-over as a double check for me?20:19
@preactioni don't remember, i think it was because i figured that isHidden was handled in processPropertiesFromFormPost20:19
@preactionbut i suppose that doesn't happen with an editBranch20:20
+perlDreamerNo, editBranch calls addRev directly20:27
+perlDreamerBut it you put it in addRev, then processPropertiesFFP will override it with info from the parent20:27
+perlDreamerThe only way to do it is to put it in update20:27
+perlDreamerwell, the only way I could think of20:27
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+perlDreamerrizen: at your discretion, would you please refile this in RFEs? http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/view-profile00:41
@rizeni have really shitty internet access where i am00:42
@rizeni can barely load web pages, please email it to me00:42
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+perlDreamerrizen: it's on its way01:06
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AMH_bobGood morning!16:41
SDuensinHey AMH_bob & rizen 16:41
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* Radix-wrk makes a backup and prepares to import another 2600 users into his webgui system.05:34
+Radix-wrkcurrently 5379 users05:34
SDuensinImporting from where?05:37
+Radix-wrktext file05:38
+Radix-wrkusing userImport.pl05:38
SDuensinAh, ok.  I face a Drupal migration in the not-too-distant future.  Fearing it.  :-)05:39
@rizeni love userImport.pl06:00
@rizenone of the best utilities i've ever written for webgui06:00
+Radix-wrkthere we go 7862 users in webgui now07:02
+Radix-wrkrizen: yep, it rocks07:02
@rizennicely done sir, but you have a way to go before you're running the site with the most users07:03
+Radix-wrkOh sure07:03
@rizenhttp://www.atomiclearning.com/ = 200,000+ users07:03
+Radix-wrkI saw that one colink posted from royal netherlands football club or soemthing too.. 25million views a day or something07:05
+Radix-wrkamazing.. and just goes to prove that Webgui can do anything :)07:05
@rizennow let's hope that my marketing campaign takes off so that we can increase webgui from 10,000+ deployments to 100,000+ deployments07:06
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@preactionaww, they're using 6.8.608:10
+Radix-wrkyeah, but at least they're using webgui :)08:16
@preactiontrue nuff08:16
@preactioni don't know if i want an iphone or if i want one of these: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo197308:17
@preactioniphone has the 4g hard drive and the "it's an iphone", but the open moko platform is open, anyone could write anything for the device08:17
+Radix-wrkiPhone looks neat, but it doesn't really do anything that my current phone doesn't do (or couldn't do)08:18
+Radix-wrkgreat to see apple spurring on the competition tho08:18
@preactioni think it's more the overall user experience that looks nice on the iphone08:18
@preactionsync w/ itunes from your existing apps08:19
+Radix-wrkI heard that there's no copy/paste on it, which seems crazy08:19
@preactionthe UI for the text input could be better probably08:19
+Radix-wrkand the itunes noose grows tighter too08:19
@preactionyeah, that is getting annoying08:19
@preaction"itunes is everything because it's the only thing people on windows use!"08:19
@preactionand the biggest suck is that it's not a dev platform at all08:21
@preactioni mean, even WM5 has an SDK that isn't too hard to get for normal Joe User08:21
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AMH_bobGood morning everybody (I'll do the honors while Scott isn't in)16:49
@rizenhow's it going in glorious holland today16:50
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AMH_bobAll is well! We're pushing it pretty hard :D17:15
AMH_bobThe weather is still ok (going to get worse this week); another 5 days and I'm off to sunny Spain!17:17
AMH_bobYeah, Torremolinos, the south side of spain.17:18
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wgGuest98Anyone here?22:33
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+perlDreamerhey, people!22:38
@preactionbonjourno! que pata!22:39
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+perlDreamerpreaction: I love it when you IM in Italian22:40
+perlDreamerIs the boss around?  The 7.3.19 branch release doesn't look complete, but I don't know if there's going to be a .20 release either.22:41
@preactiondoesn't look complete?22:41
+perlDreamerWebGUI.pm still says .1922:42
@preactionoh, he must not've updated that, but then again i remember him saying something about getting haaarg to help with the release22:42
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+perlDreamerbug --23:05
+perlDreamerperlbot: karma bug23:05
perlbotKarma for bug: 123:05
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vaydeGod I miss WebGUI!  23:19
vaydeI have never seen 'check the cgi log for more information' INSIDE the cgi log with webgui23:20
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@preactionthat sounds... horrific23:21
vaydeyeah, it's pretty ugly23:22
vaydethe other day I saw an END block inside of a BEGIN block inside of a runtime conditional23:23
vaydethough to be fair, that was something  a friend asked me to debug, not produciton code23:24
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--- Day changed Fri Jun 29 2007
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+perlDreamerpreaction: Is there any way to do something like this, but only in SQL: update table set value=default unless $value, where the unless $value is perl-ish (true)?01:10
@preactionupdate table set `column`="value" where `column` IS NULL || `columns` = "";01:52
@preactioner.. s/s\b//;01:52
+perlDreamerI'll just verify what empty looks like in there, in case it's also empty string01:52
+perlDreamer I updated lib/WebGUI.pm to say that it was .20, and added an upgrade script from .19 to .20 as well.02:08
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+perlDreamerbug --02:22
+perlDreamerbug --02:22
+perlDreamerbug --02:24
@preactionPerl 5.10 releasing soon: http://www.slideshare.net/acme/whats-new-in-perl-51002:24
@preactioni like the "state" feature, wonder if it'll work in mod_perl02:25
@preactionplus "switch" is now native (given/when block)02:25
+perlDreamerno more source hacking02:25
+perlDreamerI'll have to read about "state"02:25
@preactionthere's some messed up new features in here02:26
+perlDreamerDo you know what the USER_AGENT string is for Safari 3?02:26
SDuensinI can hit your site with it if you want to see.02:27
+perlDreamerI don't have a public facing site.. :(02:27
+perlDreamerOh, we could use Sunset's site though...02:27
SDuensinWhat about browserwatch?02:27
+perlDreamerwhat's that, SD?02:28
+perlDreamerpreaction: please go to www.sunsetpres.org with that browser.02:28
@preactiondon't have it :(02:28
+perlDreamermy bad02:29
SDuensinWell, it USED to be a browser tracking thing.02:29
SDuensinOK, I've gone there.02:29
+perlDreamerMozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/522.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0.2 Safari/522.1202:30
@preactionor go to http://whatsmyuseragent.com02:30
SDuensinThat's handy.02:30
+perlDreamerWhat does it say, SD?02:32
SDuensinsame thing you posted02:32
+perlDreamerhey, we get the say command02:35
+perlDreamerit's a shortcut for saying02:36
+perlDreamer$a = defined($b) ? $b : $c;02:36
+perlDreamer$a = $b // $c;02:36
+Radix_the first one is taken directly from C02:36
+Radix_but how does the second one work?02:36
+perlDreamerperl has a ternary operator02:37
+perlDreamerbut people keep writing $b || $c and wanting to do the definedness check02:37
@preactioni like the smart match '~~' operator02:37
+Radix_Oh.. so // is a boolean check?02:37
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+perlDreameryes, on definedness02:37
+perlDreamernot truth02:38
+perlDreamer|| -> for truth02:38
+Radix_Ahh.. so if b is defined, set that, or set to c02:38
+perlDreamer and // for definedness02:38
+perlDreamermaybe p6 won't ever happen02:38
+perlDreamerbetween these changes and Moose, p5 is quite p6-y02:38
+Radix_handy for possible undefined default values I guess02:38
+perlDreameryes, syntactic sugar for saving fingers02:39
SDuensinBut!  I want Parrot!02:39
+perlDreamerParrot is an interpreter, not Perl 602:39
+Radix_Oh well. time to head off to work for me now :)02:39
+perlDreamerPerl 6 will run on Parrot as one possible implementation02:39
SDuensinI know, but P6 was going to run on it.02:39
+perlDreamerYes, but it won't be the only P6 out there.02:39
SDuensinP6 confuses me.  :-)02:41
+perlDreamerWhich parts?02:41
SDuensinLike if it's ever going to happen.  :-)02:42
+perlDreamerWell, of this much I'm sure.  P6 may not ever exist, but P5 will look more and more like it over time.02:42
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KhaytsusSometime in the last 3-4 days, all of my assets disapeared off my server.. :(04:22
KhaytsusNot in the trash, can't find them anywhere.04:23
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KhaytsusThis is very odd..  I can find my assets by searching, but nowhere else.04:44
@preactionhow about in the database? select * from asset; and pastebin an example04:59
KhaytsusWill do04:59
@preactionhow about version tags? any major edit branches going on?05:00
@preactionbiggest question: what changed? who's been messing around?05:00
@preaction"nothing" is not an answer to that question :p05:01
KhaytsusNobody, I'm the only person, it's my small personal website.05:01
KhaytsusAnd unfortunately nothing is true; I haven't changed anything in a least a week and it was fine after.  And that was just an asset change.05:01
Khaytsus(updating an article)05:01
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KhaytsusNot sure how I'd paste all that into pastebin :)05:04
KhaytsusIs an article05:05
KhaytsusBut go up on, and notice no menu, etc..05:05
Khaytsuserm, meant go up one level in the URL05:07
KhaytsusI posted a forum thread on it too..05:27
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wgGuest18man I hate pjirc.05:34
wgGuest18hold on....05:35
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bobnthat's more lik it05:36
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bobnso anyo0ne around?05:37
bobnanyhow, nioce to see something nwritten ninn perl issteads opf all this godless php05:40
@preactionKhaytsus: can you alter that statement you wrote and "order by lineage" for me?05:42
@preactiondid you try altering any of the page layout templates?05:44
Khaytsuspreaction: I did try adding an asset to the /home but it didn't show up05:53
@preactioni mean, previously, did you alter the page layout templates?05:54
@preactionwhat does the error log say?05:54
KhaytsusOh, no errors I can see, and no, I hadn't altered any templates.  At least not for a long time.05:54
KhaytsusRefresh that same page, I updated the sql output.05:54
@preactionnothing out of the ordinary there... :(05:55
@preactionyou sure there's nothing in the webgui error log about "cannot call method 'view' on asset '...'"?05:57
@preactioncan you pastebin that whole thing?05:57
@preactionperlbot pastebin05:57
perlbot(see paste)05:57
@preactionperlbot paste05:57
perlbotPaste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.05:57
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Khaytsuspreaction: Sorry, got distracted.06:11
KhaytsusWould that be from the spectre debug output?06:11
KhaytsusAh, hmmmmmm..06:13
Khaytsusbtw, ignore... um..  indescrete stuff.  I had one forum set up wrong. 06:15
KhaytsusSome spammers posted 4-5 porn threads in it.06:15
KhaytsusStill gets hit on search engines or what not06:15
KhaytsusBut yeah, I see some weird stuff about httpproxy06:15
KhaytsusSearching for those, I can view the individual ones okay06:21
KhaytsusThey view correctly, etc..  so I dint' think my proxy assets are broken.06:21
+Radix-wrkyou sure you didn't accidentally delete /home or something like that?06:22
+Radix-wrkit'd be in your trash, but not viewable via asset view or any other way unless you searched for it06:22
KhaytsusQuite sure, nothing in the trash06:22
+Radix-wrkalternatively you could've cut it on the clipboard - that would do much the same thing06:22
KhaytsusI hadn't deleted anything in a while06:22
KhaytsusIt was fine 2 days ago..  I hadn't touched it at all.06:23
+Radix-wrkwhat's /home/counter?06:24
@preactionKhaytsus: looks like something very bad is going on with an httpproxy asset you have06:25
@rizenbobn: thanks for the appreciation06:25
+Radix-wrkwonder if that object failing is causing the whole page to die half way - and if it's on the home page or even in the style then that'd cause it06:25
+Radix-wrktry hiding that object or something maybe06:26
KhaytsusYeah, that seems to be it..  but I have no idea what it could be06:26
@preactionlook at the line in question, that'll tell you where the problem is06:26
@preactionyou know perl?06:26
KhaytsusA bit06:26
KhaytsusWhat Id on't get is it IS showing06:27
KhaytsusIf I pick it directly06:27
+Radix-wrkit's not /home/counter---main that's failing tho06:27
+Radix-wrkit's /home/counter according to your logs06:27
Khaytsusaha, k06:28
+Radix-wrkOh no06:28
+Radix-wrkI lie06:28
+Radix-wrkmy eyes hid the ---main bit from me ;)06:28
@preactionthere are other ones that are failing as well06:28
+Radix-wrkonly /home/networking/mrtg/mrtg - which also works if you view it directly06:29
Khaytsusyep..  That's what I don't understand.06:30
+Radix-wrkrestarted everything?06:31
@preactionnothing's changed in that file since the branch, but something bad is going on.06:33
KhaytsusWould a rollback possibly help?  I haven't tried that.06:33
@preactionit might help you get back to working, but it won't fix this bug06:34
@preactionselect * from asset a join assetData ad on a.assetId = ad.assetId and ad.revisionDate = (select MAX(revisionDate) from assetData where assetData.assetId=a.assetId) join HttpProxy hp on a.assetId=hp.assetId AND hp.revisionDate=ad.revisionDate; # try running this and pastebin the output please?06:35
KhaytsusRolled back the last two changes, nohelp06:38
Khaytsusk, will do06:38
@preactionKhaytsus: is "follow external" on for those httpproxies?06:38
KhaytsusAllow proxying of other domains?  No.  NOt seeing a "follow external"06:40
@preactionyeah, that's the one06:40
KhaytsusI ran that sql, output to the same file.06:41
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Khaytsusbtw, the URL to proxy is06:42
Khaytsusfor example06:42
KhaytsusA script I wrote, couldn't find a better counter so I decided to use it via http proxy06:43
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@preactioni think the issue has to do with follow external, but for some reason there's no error message on the page06:43
@preactionyou might want to post this to the bugs list, make file attachments for the last few pages (100 lines maybe) of your webgui error log, and the results of that last query I had you run (which is info on all the httpproxy assets you have) there's something strange here06:47
@preactionafter that, to move forward, try deleting those httpproxy assets. maybe make a backup of your database in this state so if someone on the buglist asks you can refer back to it06:48
@preactionhow about before we do all that, we try something quick06:49
@preactionchange line 367 in lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/HttpProxy.pm to "if ($response && $response->is_success) {06:49
@preactionthen we'll also have to change line 400 to -- $var{content} = sprintf $i18n->get('fetch page error'), $proxiedUrl, $proxiedUrl, ($response ? $response->status_line : "");06:51
@preactionsave and restart the web server and see what happens06:51
Khaytsushmm, 500 error when restarting, not sure what did wrong on line 400 (401 actually)06:55
@preactionwhat does the modperl error log say?06:56
KhaytsusIt's from spectre in the webgui log06:56
@preactionwhat does your webserver doing?06:56
@preactionlooks like nothing's changed to me06:57
Khaytsusah, restarted spectre, nothing did change06:57
@preactionyou restarted the web server too? not just spectre?06:58
@preactionhm... looks like it's to the bug list then :(06:58
KhaytsusI'll stay in here...  I posted to this thread too06:59
@preactionyou may also want to remove the http proxy's one at a time (keeping track of the url of each one you remove), and find out when it starts working again06:59
@preactioni'd start with the ones referred to in the error log06:59
KhaytsusI'll try that tommorrow.06:59
KhaytsusThanks for your help and suggestions so far, I'll check in tommorrow.  Must sleep now07:01
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cap10morganIs there a way to store an object application-wide, so all sessions use the same instance of that object?07:08
Khaytsusbtw, I restored a database from before this happened... still broken07:08
KhaytsusOff to bed for me07:10
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@preactioncap10morgan: i believe it is possible in Perl, but i don't believe it works under mod_perl. you may want to try Storable and some sort of locking mechanism (or use locking in mysql perhaps)07:26
cap10morganso there's nothing built in to WebGUI to do that?07:27
@preactionWobject->setCollateral maybe?07:28
cap10morganhmm... i'll check it out07:31
cap10morganyeah, i don't think that will do it. it's a living, breathing Perl object w/ file handles and internal state, and all that jazz. not just data i can put in a db. hmm...07:38
@preactionthe idea sounds bad, there has to be another way to do it07:40
cap10morganit's an OpenID server library07:41
cap10morganyou create an instance of the server object07:41
cap10morganthat all requests share07:41
cap10morgani could maybe create a separate for each request instead, but it seems pretty inefficient07:41
cap10morgani'm writing an asset that makes WebGUI logins work as OpenIDs07:42
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@preactioncap10morgan: you'd want to use an operation for that i assume08:38
@preactioncap10morgan: it might even be prudent to put the openID stuff inside the viewProfile for the specific user08:39
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+Radix-wrkHmm.. shows where the money is - Endeca - a company that focuses on customised search engines for enterprise will apparently do about $100million in revenue this year.10:09
+Radix-wrkNice chunk of change there.10:11
* Radix-wrk puts some more karma on some search engine rfe's.10:15
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brinazhi all10:38
brinazwent to webgui wiki and got info to this channel.10:39
brinazi am new user to webgui.10:39
brinazwrote my first macro for testing.10:39
+Radix-wrkWelcome to #webgui :)10:40
brinazthx radix10:41
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pjesigood morning11:46
pjesiI am still getting complaints about IE6 caching WG pages for a long time even after updating to 7.3.1811:48
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+perlDreamerbug --18:56
pjesithe IE6 caching?18:57
+perlDreamersorry, no18:57
+perlDreamerIt wasn't even technically a bug, but a user who didn't read the carefully written online docs for SQL based group lookups.18:58
+perlDreamerAlthough I do have a fix for the IE6 caching bug18:58
pjesiI was sure that the cache bug was fixed in .18 but it is still there18:59
pjesiIm not aware of any problems with firefox18:59
+perlDreamerI know, that's why you should replace IE6 with firefox18:59
pjesiI do not have the power to tell the clients what to use19:00
pjesiand this is only for anonymous users19:01
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+perlDreamerbug --20:04
+Radix_pjesi: try 7.3.19 perhaps?20:05
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pjesiRadix_: nothing mentioned in .19 but yes I will upgrade over the weekend20:21
+perlDreamerI don't think there were any cache fixes in .19, either20:22
pjesithere are at least two posts on wb.org regarding this20:23
+perlDreamerOn the bug list, or the discussion board?20:25
pjesiI recall that rizen told me that this was actually fixed in .1820:36
+perlDreamerHe did a lot of work to fix caching problems.20:36
+perlDreamerNot only in the browser, but in the routers.20:36
+perlDreamerI think finally he went back to the HTTP spec itself, and implemented what it suggested.20:36
pjesirouter related?20:37
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pjesiI at least can not reproduce this bug here20:37
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+perlDreamerwgGuest21, things are usually pretty quiet in channel20:58
+perlDreamerso don't wait for people to start talking to ask questions20:58
wgGuest21hello? I've never done this...20:59
+perlDreamerYou're doing fine so far.20:59
+perlDreamerDo you have a WebGUI related question?20:59
wgGuest21ok. I think I get this. I was talking with colink about a "bug" on pseudo groups. is he around?20:59
+perlDreamerThat's me20:59
wgGuest21oh. Hi.  I'm working at home and have a baby so If I "walk" away, that's why. =)21:00
+perlDreamerNo problem.21:00
wgGuest21so is everyone listening? just wondering how this works?21:00
+perlDreamerIt's like being in a chat room21:00
+perlDreamerEveryone can see what you type.21:01
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wgGuest21oh. so no ones saying anything but us. =)21:01
+perlDreamerLike I mentioned earlier, it's pretty quiet in here most times.21:01
wgGuest21So, let me understand this correctly. I have to return a valid  webgui UID (other than the visitor's which is '1') then it sounds like I need to store my user ids in both webgui and my external database? - I can't believe that people would port all their users over to webgui?21:01
+perlDreamerThat is an issue for some people, but it's how WebGUI has always worked.21:02
+perlDreamerLDAP people have to create WebGUI accounts, but they can pull authentication info from there.21:03
+perlDreamerthere is work on a SSO system for WebGUI, but it won't be out until 7.4 or so.21:03
wgGuest21is there a way I can override the exception on the UID for the visitor?21:03
+perlDreamerI'm looking at the 7.4 code, and I don't see anything that says user can't be in some externally defined group.21:04
+perlDreamerCheck out Group.pm, like 30021:04
+perlDreamerthat's the isInGroup method21:04
wgGuest21he he. I can't get to my webgui because I was vpnd and I had to log out to do this... I briefly looked at that. I'll take alook at it again. 21:05
wgGuest21I tried adding the visitor user to my pseudo groups, but webgui didn't let me.21:06
+perlDreamerVisitor shouldn't need to be in the group.21:06
+perlDreamerto be a member via the SQL query.21:07
wgGuest21that's what I thought too.21:07
wgGuest21The other method I tried was this: I created a pseudo user in webgui for each of the pseudo SQL-based queries and modified the queries to return the one UID for that group - which worked, but it required them to login to webgui. So the question then is, how do I accomplish a single sign on without porting all my external users to webqui?21:07
wgGuest21that avoided the "porting all my users to webgui" issue. but I still was forced to login to webgui.21:08
wgGuest21forget the "So the question then is, how do I accomplish a single sign on without porting all my external users to webqui? " statement21:08
+perlDreamerPlain Black implemented a SSO system between PlainBlack.com and webgui.org21:09
+perlDreamerbut they logged into 1 webgui site and share the credentials between the two sites.21:10
+perlDreamerI think logging into the wG site may be mandatory.21:10
+perlDreamerbut whether they need to create an account is different.21:10
+perlDreamerIs that kind of solution okay?21:10
wgGuest21hmmm I dont' know if I followed other than the user still needs to login to webgui. I'd like to avoid that. I'm still thinking if I can return the id of visitor it would be the smoothist. I'll have to take a look at the code in group.pm to see if there is somethign there that is obvious. If SQL query groups need to return a UID, than '1' should work - I would think.21:14
wgGuest21I'm assuming I have to return a string since all the other UIDs are strings.21:14
wgGuest21I also looked into writting my own auth module, but then all my current webgui users would have to be stored in my other database right?21:16
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+perlDreamerIf you wrote your own auth module, any user logging into WebGUI would need to have a WebGUI account.21:19
+perlDreamerhave a look at this macro from the contribs section21:23
+perlDreamerI think it does what you want.21:27
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ckotilwho's gonna be waiting in line for an iphone?21:35
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wgGuest55hello. I'm back. I vpn'd to work to look at the code, so if perlDreamer said anything I didn't get it...21:36
wgGuest55Oh. I see I'm a new person, but webGuest21 is still listed. 21:36
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wgGuest55I triple checked my groups. My group is return '1' if I can validate with the cookies content, '0' if not. (read I'm returning strings)21:37
+perlDreamerhave a look at this macro from the contribs section21:38
wgGuest55This was a change from before. Now it seems that my page is ALWAYS visible. I think this is because of line 288 in User.pm: return 1 if ($gid eq '1' && $uid eq '1');    # visitors are in the visitors group21:39
+perlDreamerThat may be due to group caching.21:40
wgGuest55oh. how do I clear that?  BTW, I'm not useing any macro from the contribs area...? unles you think that SSO one would be helpful?21:40
+perlDreamerIt sounds like it does the very thing you want.21:41
+perlDreamerBut you should check it out.21:41
+perlDreamerI'm not sure how to clear the group caching, I'd have to dig through the code.21:42
+perlDreamer7.4 is supposed to be out in the end of July with some kind of SSO built-in21:42
+perlDreamerYou sure you can't wait until then?21:42
ckotili have a CAS SSO module.21:43
ckotilthats what JT went with right?21:44
ckotilcreated by yale.21:44
ckotilthe IU CAS is slightly differnet. so my cas module pry wont work anywhere else but in my university.21:44
wgGuest55story short, I prefer not to wait. I looked at the macro from Issac 2006 is that the one  you're looking at?21:48
wgGuest55so If I understand this macro correctly, it changes the user on the fly?21:51
+perlDreamerI haven't read the macro21:51
wgGuest55ckotil, I have downloaded your module, as code to look at in case I do have to write my own auth. I'm assuming that if I write my own auth module, my current webgui users have to be moved to my external database?21:54
ckotilthe way mine works anyway.21:58
ckotilthe university maintains the db.21:59
ckotilso im doing just the opposite and have to recreate all the accounts in webgui.21:59
ckotileventually i want to get all of my contacts setup in an ldap server to sync with the webgui db. but thats just not feasible at this point in time21:59
ckotilit was pretty easy hacking the webgui.pm auth module to work with IU's CAS.22:00
ckotilsoon we may be ditching the university CAS system for a SSO we control. 22:00
ckotilwe like Cosign22:00
ckotilwould be sweet if wG chose that =]22:01
+perlDreamerWhat about OpenID?22:01
ckotilnever heard of it.22:02
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wgGuest55so, if you have all your users in an external database, how do the webgui built-in groups work? do you port those to your external db as well?22:15
ckotilnope. all inrenal to webgui22:16
ckotilinternal too.22:16
ckotilits not the most efficient thing in the world, but it works for now. until we begin integrating services into webgui.22:17
wgGuest55then how do you log in as admin? can you use two auth mods at the same time? is the admin user in webgui or the external db?22:17
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wgGuest55I'm logging out again22:40
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ckotilheading out.22:49
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brinazhi all23:13
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+perlDreamerHaarg: I'm looking at fixing the bug you posted.  Did you have any specific ideas for fixing it, or am I free to dream stuff up?23:45
@Haargwhich bug?23:46
+perlDreamerThe package import error log one23:46
SDuensinHey perlDreamer - I'm all kinds of excited for 7.3.19.  Working on installing it now!23:47
@Haargno particular ideas, no23:47
+perlDreamerokay, thanks.  I'm thinking of putting in an assetExists method so you can call the right thing and skip the message.23:48
+perlDreamerSDuensin. Cool.  Why are you excited?23:48
SDuensinBecause you fixed a lot of bugs that were causing me heartaches!23:48
+perlDreamerYou keep posting 'em, we'll keep fixing them :)23:49
SDuensinWell, if I find more, I'll post 'em.  Bugs MUST DIE!23:51
SDuensinNow if only you could fix my RAM usage issues on my server.  <sigh>23:53
SDuensinWebGUI keeps butting me against my hard limit.23:54
+perlDreamerI can fix that too.23:54
+perlDreamerRAM is cheap23:54
SDuensinIf I owned the hardware, it'd not be an issue.23:54
+perlDreamerHave you unloaded unused Assets and Macros?  That can help a little.23:55
@preactionchange the apache2::sizelimit, perhaps change the number of worker threads that get called23:56
@preactionwill change out ram usage for response time23:56
+perlDreamerIs there a wiki page for this kind of stuff?  Others would find it useful, too.23:57
SDuensinI'll look into that.  Still running a backup so I can load
SDuensinYea.  Wiki it!  :-D23:57
+perlDreamerSD: If this stuff works, make a cool wiki page with what you've learned on it.23:57
@preactionnot that i know of, this is just basic server stuff23:57
@preactionSDuensin: more importantly, watch top and vmstat for a while and see what's going on with the memory usage23:57
@preactionyou might be able to change the swappiness to move some processes to swap instead23:58
@preactionat the expense of disk I/O should you need those processes (which is very very bad)23:58
--- Day changed Sat Jun 30 2007
SDuensinI'm hoping to get more stuff moved to WebGUI so I can turn off my other Apache.00:00
@preactionyou have the WRE running?00:00
@preactionwhy not use the mod_proxy instance to run those?00:01
@preactionit'd be as simple as moving the virtualhost blocks to a <file>.modproxy into /data/wre/etc00:01
SDuensinI'll look into that.00:01
SDuensinYea.  Here's an example of my problem:00:03
SDuensinWhich mirror would you like to download from? [plainblack] 00:03
SDuensinDownloading from mirror:                Out of memory!00:03
@preactionhow much memory / swap do you have free right now?00:05
SDuensinMem:   8298332k total,  8282788k used,    15544k free,    52616k buffers00:05
SDuensinSwap:  6289436k total,     2236k used,  6287200k free,  4535604k cached00:05
SDuensinI've never had to deal with this before.  I usually just pop in more RAM.00:05
@preactionuhm... what limit is it butting up against? you have 6 gigabytes of available swap00:06
SDuensinI don't know.  This is a VM running under VPS.00:06
@preactionthat's the WRE install/update script, right?00:06
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SDuensinHere's from VPS:00:07
SDuensinIDCurrent UseSoft LimitHard LimitUnitsDescription 00:07
SDuensinprivvmpages513,486524,288524,2884KB pagesMemory allocation limit00:07
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SDuensinAnybody here have any experience with 1and1?00:48
SDuensinGood, bad, or otherwise?00:51
@preactionthey've handled my DNS and domains for about three years now00:51
@preactionnothing bad to say about them, good clean admin interface00:51
@preactioni like their dns settings, i don't have to choose their way or my own DNS, i can do a lot of custom dns stuff00:51
SDuensinThis RAM limit is getting on my nerves.  I can get 1 GB (got 512 now) with 1and1 for the same price I pay LiquidWeb.00:53
@preactionwhy not plainblack? *cough*00:53
SDuensinNot everything I run is WebGUI.  I need root access.00:54
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+perlDreamerbug --02:10
+perlDreamerperlbot: karma bug02:11
perlbotKarma for bug: 102:11
+perlDreamerperlbot: karma bugs02:11
perlbotKarma for bugs: -202:11
+perlDreamerbugs --02:11
+perlDreamersomebody figured out how to make SQL Form work with WebGUI's db?02:19
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wgGuest79hello.  I'm looking at the Group.pm at line 563 version 7.2.1 and it looks like this: my %users = map { $_ => 1 } @users;06:29
wgGuest79Am I to understand that this rewrites the users array to only contains items greater than or equal to one?06:29
wgGuest79Gotta go get some sleep. bye.06:50
vaydeNo, that's putting each element of @users as the key and 1 as the value06:50
vaydein the %users hash06:50
vaydesorry bout the delay06:50
wgGuest79Trying to figure out how to logout of this...  But the next line of code does this: @users = keys %users;06:51
vaydehey.  Things get a bit quiet here on a Friday night06:51
wgGuest79so I don't really understand what those two lines are doing.06:51
vaydeseems a little redundant to be sure06:52
vaydethis is wG 7.2.1?06:52
vaydehmm.  I cut my teeth on 7.3, but lemme take a look06:53
vaydefrom what you posted, the second line is almost useless06:53
vaydeunless %users already exists06:53
vaydethe first line is putting everything from @users into %users06:54
wgGuest79nope. the first line I showed declares it.06:54
wgGuest79that would explain why commenting it out didn't do anything. =)06:54
wgGuest79I was talking with colink eariler today. and to make a long story short, I've got a  pseduo group that uses an sql query to return webgui uids. I *WANT* to return the visitors uid which is the number one.06:55
wgGuest79but somewhere in the code, there seems to be an exception to doing that... I thought maybe I found it. =(06:55
vaydethe only use I can see for that would be if there was already data in %users, and you added to it, then updated @users with the full list06:55
vaydehmm, well colink/perl_dreamer is one of the best guys here to ask06:56
wgGuest79do you by anychance konw how to clear the user/group cache?06:56
vaydenot off the top of my head.  my wG is getting pretty rusty06:57
vaydecan't you just flush the whole cache from the settings menu?06:57
vaydeor maybe I'm misunderstanding06:57
wgGuest79I tried that, but I dont' think that does the user/group. On that particular screen it says someting about the asset cache. So I don't think it does. I don't know how to verify it either way.06:58
wgGuest79do you know how to log out of this? before, I just closed the screen, and then logged in again and saw my old user still listed. I'm using the chat software provided by wG.06:59
vaydesorry, no.  I didn't know wG HAD chat software.07:00
* vayde grins sheepishly07:00
wgGuest79http://www.webgui.org/webgui/chat.html - it just comes up... I'm new to this chat thing.07:01
wgGuest79what software do you recommend? This one is lacking in something.07:02
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vaydeI'm using xchat from ubuntu linux07:03
vaydeyou can get here with pidgin pretty easily though07:03
@preactioncolloquy on OSX, mIRC on windows, etc...07:03
vaydehit preaction with your question btw, he'll probably know07:03
@preactionchatzilla works nicely too07:03
@preactionyay for being k-lined!07:04
wgGuest79hi preaction.07:04
@preactionmore like, yay for using work computers to ssh tunnel into freenode to resolve the k-line...07:04
@preactioni mean07:04
wgGuest79I was talking with colink eariler today. and to make a long story short, I've got a  pseduo group that uses an sql query to return webgui uids. I *WANT* to return the visitors uid which is the number one But somewhere in the code, there seems to be an exception against doing such thing.07:05
wgGuest79Any ideas where this may be? I looked in Groups.pm, User.pm. without much luck. Specifically at the functions: getDatabaseUsers, getAllUsers and isInGroup.07:06
@preactionlet me discover the feature you're talking about and see what's up with it07:06
wgGuest79I'm using wG 7.2.107:07
@preactionwhat's the query?07:08
@preactionperlbot paste07:08
perlbotPaste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.07:08
@preactionbetter, http://pastebin.ca <- use that instead07:08
wgGuest79the query is a query to an external database that uses three ids stored from a cookie tolook up a user's information.  The cookie's data and the query itself has been verified by runningn it in a sqlreport.07:08
@preactioni need the actual query07:09
wgGuest79basically the query either returns 1 or 0.  (one - being the visitors uid) I tried this similarly with actual webgui uids and it works great but I want th visitor's uid.07:10
@preactionnothing in the error log?07:10
wgGuest79I have to log out to get it.  I need to vpn to get the code. Is there any other code you want me to get before I do this?07:11
@preactionno, as long as it's all verified working (but that means i'm taking your word for it, which is probably not a good idea)07:11
@preactionit works with normal IDs, but not the ID "1"07:11
wgGuest79that's why I think there is some exception disallowing ID "1" somewhere.07:12
wgGuest79one qustion I have is whether to return '1' or 1 (number or string) I think I should be returning a string being that all the other uids are strings. - I'm currently returning  the string '1'07:13
@preactionit shouldn't matter, but the string would probably be best, i remember having some problems with mysql and numbers v. strings07:13
@preactionmysql will interpret 3 = "3sdfaweraowefawlefjaewf" as true07:13
wgGuest79single quotes right?07:14
@preactionnothing in the operation adds anything to the dbquery that restricts to a single user07:14
@preactionyou might want to grab the group's definition from the database too07:14
@preactionselect * from groups where groupId = <whatever>07:14
vaydewgGuest79, ping me sometime and I can talk you around the vpn issue07:15
vaydeI'm vpn'ed into the bank at the moment, and still chatting on freenode07:15
wgGuest79oh... that's my networking guy at work. I think he disabled it. Too many people abusing chat and stuff.07:16
@preactionyay for BOFH07:16
@preactionsome days i want to learn MIS / Networking just so I can BOFH07:16
vaydeeverything is locked down at my work.  like I said, there are ways around it07:16
@preactionvpn another compy into it and ssh into that compy perhaps?07:17
@preactiontwo nic cards required?07:17
@preactioni've never had to vpn07:17
vaydeparprouted on the wireless, and a virtual machine07:17
vaydebank won't allow wireless, bridged connections, or non-xp on vpn07:18
@preactionthe VM can have as many nic cards as it wants, nice07:18
vaydeso of course I'm running ubuntu, wireless, and a bridged connection07:18
* vayde grins evilly07:18
wgGuest79I vpn to work to get into my webgui install. The webgui isn't live yet, so it isn't public, nor is the server. I'll be back... I haven't figured out how to logout of this thing, so I'll be the next wgGuest person07:18
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vaydehe can't log out of the chat client apparently07:19
@preactionit's 11:00p and i'm still working on this javascript app... i got to learn how to build trees using both perl and javascript07:19
vaydefun fun fun07:19
@preactionand how to create the right instructions to rebuild the tree in a stupid language like HTML::Template07:19
vaydehows things in general?07:19
@preactioni appreciate the Navigation wobject so much right now07:19
vaydeyou don't like HTML::Template?07:19
@preactioni love it, it's just stupid07:19
@preactionit's not smart07:19
vaydeahh, stupid, not stupid07:20
@preactionwith TT i could probably do some recursive jazz07:20
@preactionas it is i need to make the instructions on how to build a tree into an array, not just give it a tree07:20
@preactionusing such nastiness as indentLoop => [ {}, {}, {}, ];07:20
vaydeI wish I could change places with you for a couple of days.  One look at the crap I'm working with and you'd never complain again07:20
@preactionit's the vpn i don't understand, how is that more secure than an ssh tunnel?07:21
vaydethis sh* is a great object lesson in the difference between CAN and SHOULD07:21
vaydeI don't know that it is07:21
@preactionoh god, that's always fun07:21
vaydeI think somebody thinks it is07:21
@preactiongetting people to back down from things they think they need but will just sit unused...07:22
vaydeplus with the vpn on windows at least they can shut down all your ports07:22
vaydeso you can only go through the vpn tunnel07:22
vaydeI don't knwo how that works with a real OS07:22
@preactionwith proper user accounting it's simple: if someone breaks the rules, you fire them.07:22
vaydeIt's stupid though.  If they can't trust me doing things on their network, they can't trust me.  Doesn't matter how I get there07:23
@preactionthat too07:23
vaydeall it does is slow me down07:23
@preactionit's like they're treating you as a child07:23
vaydeI swear there are specs somewhere saying that all software used by the bank must:07:23
vaydea) suck07:24
vaydeb) be unreliable07:24
vaydec)be bloated07:24
vayded) cost way too much $$$07:24
@preactionoh, aren't you eventually porting that Perl to Java? and they wanted to get rid of the bloat/unreliability/suck?07:24
vaydeno, I don't think they want to get rid of it07:25
vaydeI think they're happy with it07:25
@preactionthey hired some real idiots to design this software i imagine, which might be the reason for their current security policy07:25
vaydewouldn't want one piece of software to stand out would you?07:25
vaydeIt's an interesting education07:25
@preactionsome people don't realize what early design decisions can do to a software project :(07:25
vaydeI don't know how long I'll put up with it, but I'm glad of the experience07:25
vaydesome of the things they tried to do made some kind of sense, but they didnt stick iwth their 'standards'07:26
@preactionprobably didn't enter their heads, but it rarely does07:26
vaydeand there's a cherished love of complexity07:26
@preaction(to publish a coding standard)07:26
vaydeplus some of the folks watched 'Office Space' and thought it was a documentary07:27
vaydeor a training film07:27
@preactiondepends on the type of complexity, i've been reading the Unix Hater's Guide, and there's some wonderful bits about the philosophy of "simple over functional"07:27
@preaction"Is this good for the company?"07:27
vaydewell, by the code they write, they never heard of laziness, impatience, or hubris07:28
@preactionthe virtues! how i pine for thee!07:29
@preactionperlbot virtues07:29
perlbotLaziness, Impatience, Hubris, Diligence, Patience and Humility07:29
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vaydehey, I picked up an xps m1210, I see what you mean about your philosophy of laptops07:30
wgGuest97hi. I'm back. where do you want this stuff?07:30
@preactionvayde: refresh me?07:31
@preactionlappy doesn't run servers?07:31
@preactionwas that ubuntu pre-loaded even?07:31
* preaction says a lot of wise things and remembers almost none of them 07:31
vaydeI had that monster Inspiron 930007:31
vaydeyou said something about preferring light and small, and leaving the power for a desktop07:32
@preactionit is tiny too07:32
vaydeI dunno, I became a believer once I had to lug the monster around07:32
@preactionbut it doesn't have ubuntu pre-loaded :(07:32
@preactionthat lappy + ubuntu fiesty + beryl = rival to windows vista at half the processing expense07:33
vaydeand I'm a little disappointed in the graphics card too07:33
wgGuest97I put a 15 minute experiation on it. not exactly something I want public. 07:33
wgGuest97I up loaded the sql. You want the details of the group too?07:33
@preactionwgGuest97: if there's something in it that's not secure, then the security policy of the site might need to be rethought07:33
@preactionyes please07:33
vaydeIt's awesome, except for the turbo cache crap.  I should have paid closer attention07:34
@preactionturbo cache?07:34
vaydeprobably would have bought it anyway though07:34
vaydeI thought I was buying a 256 meg Nvidia 780007:34
vaydeit's only got 64 megs onthe card07:34
vaydepulls the rest from system07:35
@preactiongod i hate that07:35
vaydeit just wasn't labeled clearly07:35
@preactionmight've been better off with the I95007:35
vaydeOh, but the FSB is so fast you'll never notice!07:35
vaydeoh well, to be honest, I wasn't gonna do much gaming on a 12 inch screen anyway07:35
@preactionwell, no07:36
@preactionhow thin is it? almost looks more portable than the mbp07:36
vaydeIt runs Beryl fine, some of the fancier stuff lags a little07:36
vaydeinch, inch and a half07:36
vaydesomewhere in there07:36
vaydejust under 4 lbs07:36
vaydeit's a dell, and therefore a brick07:36
vaydeI bought a vaio SZ, but returned it07:37
vaydethat was tiny and light, but I didn't like it07:37
vaydefingerprint scanner between the mouse buttons made linux hell07:37
wgGuest97groups detail is up now.  I hope that was all you needed?07:37
@preactioni need links to these things?07:37
@preactionwgGuest97: links to the pastebins?07:38
vaydeOh well, I'm outta here.  Good talking to you Doug.  ttyl07:38
@preactioncya, good luck07:38
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wgGuest97http://pastebin.ca/596731 - is the groups details.07:39
wgGuest97http://pastebin.ca/596727 - is the sql statement (which is also shown in the groups details)07:39
wgGuest97they are listed under the user: wg9707:40
@preactiondid you try ELSE NULL?07:41
wgGuest97nope. I can try that... but I'll have to log out again.07:43
@preactionso we'll get a bunch of things to try then07:43
wgGuest97I alos just posted isInGroup. I think there is something there that may be preventin gme from returning visitors uid. but I'm not seing it...07:44
@preactiondid you clear the cache after you edited the query that returned '1' or '0'? 07:45
@preactionuser/group relationships get cached07:45
@preactionthat'd be the first thing to check07:45
@preactionthere's nothing in there that prevents a visitor from belonging to other groups07:45
@preactionthere's something in there that says visitors are in the visitors group, sure07:45
@preactionor that not-visitors are in the registered users group07:46
wgGuest97I tried clearing the cache, but I didn't know whether that cleared just content, or users and groups as well.07:46
@preactionthose three lines are to improve performance, if they weren't there, everything would go on as normal07:46
@preactionclear the cache the fun way: rm -rf /tmp/WebGUICache07:46
wgGuest97I can't add the visitor user to any group. WebGUI's GUI prevents that.07:46
wgGuest97I alos posted http://pastebin.ca/596739 getAllUsers. Lines 29 and 30 looke suspicious, but the other chat guy said they didn' do anything.07:47
@preactionright, the GUI in Operation/User.pm prevents that07:47
@preactionthey aren't suspicious, they're removing duplicates07:48
@preactionyou can only have one key in a hash with the same name (in this case, user Ids)07:49
wgGuest97hmm. so I'm at a loss.  I'm anxious to try these two things. is there anythign else you can think of that I can try?07:53
@preactionnot really, unless you want to try using integer instead of string07:54
@preactionremember to clear cache after changing that query07:54
wgGuest97Do you think I need to add visitor to my group?  Accordign to the documentation (hover help) I shouldn't have to. 07:54
wgGuest97never mind. I can't...07:55
@preactionyou shouldn't have to07:55
wgGuest97ok. I'll try these. bye07:55
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wgGuest90I guess im 90 now.08:02
wgGuest90returning a string AND using ELSE NULL, the page is ALWAYS visible no matter if the three macros return valid data or not.08:03
wgGuest90If I return a number 1 the page is hidden. no matter whether the three macros return valid data or not.08:03
wgGuest90I should explain that this is a SSO system. The personid, divisionid, companyid return ids stored from a cookie set from another site. The data in that cookie isused on the other site, so I know that the data is correct.08:04
wgGuest90hope that makes sense.08:05
wgGuest90so inother words whether I'm loggedin or not with the correct creditials. The first page always displays, and the second page always displays the login screen. (i'm dealing with two different groups - similar queries)08:06
@preactioni don't know then man. you might have to do a custom auth module to accomplish this :(08:07
@preaction(overload the isInGroup method to accomodate your users most likely, but there are other complications)08:08
@preactionthere's a thread on the dev list about installing your own modules to replace the WebGUI default ones, but still keep the webgui default ones08:08
@preactionthen you could override anything you wanted08:08
wgGuest90do you think somewhere there is the logic that a visitor is ALWAYS associated with the VISITOR's group?08:10
@preactionwell yes08:11
@preactionbut not only the visitors group08:11
wgGuest90is there more to that last thought?08:13
@preactionvisitors are automatically part of the visitors group, but i imagine can be part of other groups too08:14
@preactionthe GUI may prevent things, but the API does not08:14
@preactionAPI prevents only things that will cause fatal errors08:15
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wgGuest90well. now that I know how to clear the cache, I'll try more things tomorrow. I would think that i should be able to return 1 as a uid - because it IS a valid uid.... Thanks very much for your help!08:17
wgGuest90hmmm. are you still there?08:21
wgGuest90oh never mind. buy08:24
wgGuest90bye. that is.08:24
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@preactionlol you know you've done too much perl when you get this error in javascript (and laugh)09:16
@preaction"undef is not defined"09:16
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