WebGUI irc logs from: 2007-07.log

--- Log opened Sun Jul 01 00:00:49 2007
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+Radix_	Anyone about?	04:52
+Radix_	dw	04:53
+Radix_	2007/07/01 09:57:39 - WARN - mycompany.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - Couldn't call method edit on asset for url: style/read/templates/read-navigation-template Root cause: Can't locate object method "new" via package "HTMLTemplate" (perhaps you forgot to load "HTMLTemplate"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm line 252.	05:00
+Radix_	happens whenever I try and edit a navigation template I'd created.. yet if I keep clicking on edit then it eventually works and opens it fine	05:01
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tichy	Could not set uid/gid on '/var/www/domains/rab2/uploads/temp/qy/qySOEpf2dOLv1rEeorBPZg/ZheCfsFTMBtiBlSe-oDoAw.storage'	12:54
tichy	whenn uploading a webui packages, but permissions seem to be right	12:55
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+MrHairgrease	rizen	20:44
+MrHairgrease	are you there?	20:44
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@rizen	now i am	21:14
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@rizen	for a few seconds	21:15
+MrHairgrease	ok	21:19
+MrHairgrease	the recent addons thingy seems to show only first revison of posts	21:19
+MrHairgrease	http://www.plainblack.com/wg/contribute	21:19
+MrHairgrease	untitled should be GoogleMaps Macro	21:20
@rizen	post a bug report	21:25
+MrHairgrease	ok	21:25
+MrHairgrease	will do	21:25
@rizen	oh and go get a hair cut, you hippie	21:25
+MrHairgrease	just got one last week	21:30
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+perlDreamer	You know it's bad when you don't pay attention to the bugs reported by your own tests...	00:53
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SDuensin	Good morning.	16:01
ckotil	hello	16:11
ckotil	got an iPhone	16:11
ckotil	its great.	16:11
ckotil	had to fight with att all day saturday to 'port' my old cell number.	16:12
ckotil	i didnt know it was called porting until the 4th call, back and forth between carriers.	16:12
* SDuensin iGroans.		16:18
SDuensin	I'll wait until it's got a decent data network.	16:19
ckotil	yah	16:19
ckotil	web pages take about a minute to load, as do youtube videos	16:19
ckotil	its excellent on wifi tho	16:19
ckotil	i love being able to catch up on news while im on the toilet	16:20
SDuensin	heheheh	16:20
+Radix_	lol	17:11
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+Radix_	http://www.tuaw.com/2007/07/01/prepaid-iphone-in-a-nutshell/	17:13
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pjesi	I dont get the fuzz	18:03
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--- Day changed Tue Jul 03 2007
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@preaction	http://www.ohloh.net/projects/103 <- interesting website about OSS	01:07
@preaction	says that webgui would take about 10 million USD to build from scratch	01:09
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+perlDreamer	rizen: I need a consult for a deprecation notice.	02:36
+perlDreamer	We're not allowed to add new session variables, but the current ones are okay?	02:36
+perlDreamer	That's from Asset::Template::Parser, line 37 or so	02:37
+perlDreamer	But in the docs themselves it says bluntly that session vars are deprecated, wholesale.	02:37
+perlDreamer	Which is it?	02:37
@preaction	current ones are okay i think, new ones are a bad idea	02:42
@preaction	i imagine they should be added somewhere else	02:42
@preaction	or macros	02:42
+perlDreamer	That's what I was thinking, too.	02:42
@preaction	is there something that requires them?	02:42
@rizen	current ones are ok now, but will eventually be eliminated	02:42
+perlDreamer	So they should be marked and doc'ed as deprecated.	02:43
@rizen	yes	02:43
+perlDreamer	In that case, I'll rework the example in Style Template without them.	02:43
@rizen	they will eventually be replaced with something else	02:43
@rizen	like a macro or something	02:43
+perlDreamer	cool	02:44
SDuensin	Hi rizen, perlDreamer, preaction.	02:44
+perlDreamer	thanks, rizen (and you too preaction)	02:44
+perlDreamer	It's good to know y'all are on the same wavelength.	02:44
@preaction	that's what JT's magic hammer is for	02:45
* preaction nurses a few bruises		02:45
+perlDreamer	You should be glad he used the blunt end :)	02:46
+perlDreamer	Hey, SD.	02:46
SDuensin	My brain hurts.	02:49
+perlDreamer	SDuensin: are you using an iPhone?	02:53
SDuensin	Frack no.	02:53
+perlDreamer	Then what's the cause of your cerebral distress?	02:53
SDuensin	I'm trying to learn cross-platform real-time 3D rendering.	02:54
@preaction	OpenGL? SDL?	02:54
SDuensin	Depends on the platform. :-)	02:54
SDuensin	Ogre3D is the graphics thingie. Lots of other code involved, too.	02:54
+perlDreamer	rizen, preaction: what do y'all think of this: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/view-profile	02:56
+perlDreamer	bug or RFE?	02:56
@preaction	sounds like a site style issue to me	02:56
@preaction	oh, it's logged against plainblack.com	02:56
+perlDreamer	It's small enough that I was thinking we should just stick do it.	02:56
@rizen	i'll send steve an email	02:57
+perlDreamer	preaction: it is style based, but I think a lot of the navs and styles suffer from it.	02:57
@rizen	steve's bug to fix	02:57
+perlDreamer	okay.	02:57
SDuensin	Hey rizen - does PB do any charity stuff?	02:58
@rizen	rarely	02:58
@rizen	what is it for?	02:58
+perlDreamer	Do you mean like giving away their software for free? :)	02:59
SDuensin	Ok. Just curious. I donated server space and WebGUI hosting to a new foundation for a guy who died in a triathlon. They have no idea how to manage it. Wondered if you'd be interested in kicking them a couple Primers or something.	02:59
* SDuensin is doing his best to teach them.		02:59
@rizen	some guy died?	03:03
@rizen	that doesn't seem like much of a charity	03:03
SDuensin	Yes. And to be honest, I don't know where they're sending the money they raise. If I had to guess, it'd be to LiveStrong, but that's just a guess.	03:05
SDuensin	It's been a rough week. Dude was a coworker of mine.	03:05
SDuensin	http://www.kevinmhuntfoundation.org	03:06
SDuensin	Horribly ugly site. Done in 2 days by my poor boss who is trying to learn WebGUI as she goes.	03:06
SDuensin	Hehe - looks like she just figured out two column layouts. :-)	03:07
@rizen	i'll have to say i pass. i'm sure he was a great guy and all, but 14,4000 people die on the planet every day. i can't set that sort of precident	03:07
SDuensin	That's fine dude. Never hurts to ask, so I figured I would. :-)	03:07
SDuensin	I really hope she changes that "logo". It screams of Windows Paint.	03:11
+perlDreamer	Haarg: I found knowmad's template editing bug.	03:20
+perlDreamer	The Help has an autogenerated list of template parsers, based on the config file.	03:20
+perlDreamer	It stomps on the config file entry, because it's a reference.	03:21
@preaction	you're joking	03:21
+perlDreamer	No	03:21
@preaction	god damn it	03:21
@preaction	nice	03:21
+perlDreamer	I know, I suck	03:21
+perlDreamer	It's probably not the only one, either. I'll check the other autogenerated docs as well.	03:22
+perlDreamer	Macros are okay	03:27
+perlDreamer	Assets are okay	03:28
+perlDreamer	Workflow Activities are okay	03:29
+perlDreamer	It's just the template parsers.	03:29
+perlDreamer	I didn't make a copy, just dereferenced.	03:29
+perlDreamer	and then altered $_ inside the loop of a map, which changes the parent, which is what config points to	03:29
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+perlDreamer	when is 7.3.20 scheduled for release?	04:00
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+perlDreamer	I'm almost ready to commit a fix	04:06
+perlDreamer	It looks like it could cause the bug, but I don't see a way for the config variables in one session variable to be leaking into the session var for the next request.	04:06
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+perlDreamer	preaction: there's no code to prevent you from using the WebGUI database link that I can find.	06:19
@preaction	it's supposed to	06:19
@preaction	i thought there was, to prevent exactly what that caused that bug	06:19
+perlDreamer	there's code to remove it from the select list, but that's it	06:20
+perlDreamer	if you update the db manually, or hack the form it would work fine.	06:20
@preaction	we might have to ask martin about it	06:20
+perlDreamer	I'll try to catch him tomorrow.	06:20
+perlDreamer	btw, do you know when 7.3.20 is due to be released?	06:21
@preaction	probably wednesday	06:22
+perlDreamer	the 4th?	06:23
@preaction	oh	06:23
@preaction	uhm... durno then	06:23
+perlDreamer	You have any plans for the 4th?	06:24
+perlDreamer	Family, gf, bbq, blow things up?	06:24
@preaction	nope, i imagine i'll be working	06:24
+perlDreamer	later	06:37
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vayde	rizen, you going to be around Sunday night? I'll be in town. Wanna grab a brew?	07:25
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SDuensin	Good morning!	15:41
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Leon	hi	15:56
Leon	any one can help me out ?	15:56
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+Radix_	not in 6 minutes, no	16:05
* SDuensin chuckles		16:05
ckotil	heh	16:07
ckotil	i think i got an iPaperWeight	16:07
ckotil	battery seems like its bad.	16:07
ckotil	its not going a full day, with minimal use.	16:07
SDuensin	Dead battery? That'll be $85 please.	16:08
ckotil	yarly.	16:08
SDuensin	You using the WiFi or just letting it sit?	16:08
ckotil	i turned off wifi and email check.,	16:09
+Radix_	replacement battery from apple = return the device and they'll solder a new one on for you for $$$	16:09
ckotil	man..id be so pissed off if they charge me.	16:09
ckotil	as if i hadnt paid enough already	16:09
SDuensin	Yea. Apple announced the battery is $85.95.	16:09
ckotil	and we learned yesteray about how much this thing costs apple.	16:09
ckotil	its under $300.	16:09
SDuensin	I'd think you're well within whatever sad warranty they offer.	16:09
ckotil	omfg.	16:10
ckotil	id thihnk since i just got it, they'd give me a nwe phone.	16:10
ckotil	ya.	16:11
+Radix_	if they still have stock to give you one	16:16
* SDuensin has a RAZR. It sucks, but it plays DOOM!		16:21
+Radix_	I have an o2 atom which rocks.	16:21
nuba	o2 atoms dont rock, they oxidise	16:24
nuba	and actually its not o2 atoms, o2 its the entire molecule	16:26
+Radix_	Umm.. yeah	16:29
nuba	in fact its all wrong. you write O2, no chemical element is written with the first letter in smallcaps	16:36
nuba	let me see, did I left anything out of the nitpicking ?	16:37
nuba	:)	16:37
+Radix_	http://www.seeo2.com/product/XdaAtom/template/XdaAtomProductInfo.vm	16:37
-!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 14 nicks [3 ops, 0 halfops, 2 voices, 9 normal]		17:08
xdanger	hmm.. Is it possible to edit a CS submission before Approving it?	17:09
xdanger	We have a user updated list, and sometimes they have badly formated text or something like that... But we have to approve it first so that content managers can edit it...	17:10
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@rizen	radix, are you here?	19:35
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+perlDreamer	(Time appropriate greeting), folks	20:09
+perlDreamer	preaction: can you give me a pointer to the DBI grant code that you mentioned a while ago?	20:48
* perlDreamer hates log file gaps		20:55
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+perlDreamer	Things are hopping in the channel today	00:46
+perlDreamer	Must be because of the holiday	00:46
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+perlDreamer	Hola, SDuensin	01:26
SDuensin	Yo	01:26
+perlDreamer	What's up nt he java desktop world?	01:30
SDuensin	WonderGrid is almost ready to ship! It's an awesome database editor.	01:52
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cap10morgan	so, http proxy assets rewrite form fields so they have HttpProxy_ as a prefix	02:14
cap10morgan	do you basically just have to modify the script that they post to to handle the new names?	02:14
cap10morgan	or can you turn that rewriting off?	02:14
+perlDreamer	No idea.	02:15
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+Radix-wrk	ckotil: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/03/iphone_hacking_progress/	03:59
@preaction	and again i must point out that they are talking about CRACKERS not hackers...	04:32
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* vayde waves to perlDreamer		07:11
+perlDreamer	yo, vayde!	07:12
+perlDreamer	The daughter of a friend of mine is taking martial arts.	07:13
+perlDreamer	"uwe..." something	07:13
vayde	Cool. What style?	07:13
+perlDreamer	Means the formless way?	07:13
+perlDreamer	Shapeless way?	07:13
+perlDreamer	Basically, she's going to be a tough street chik	07:13
vayde	Ude perhaps	07:14
vayde	good	07:14
vayde	ladies need to be touch	07:14
vayde	er tough	07:14
+perlDreamer	they need both, but only on their terms :)	07:14
vayde	lol	07:15
vayde	sadly I've not met an adult woman who hasn't felt she was tossed around or at some guy's mercy at some time in their life	07:16
vayde	It's nothing sinister. Men are, on average, larger. You judge the world by yourself. Force you think is appropriate is too much for a smaller person.	07:17
+perlDreamer	Looking at the bug list, you would never guess that we had it down to 6 bugs	07:21
+perlDreamer	I'm going to crash out. Catch you later, vayde	07:24
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nuba	anyone ever got this error when trying to start httpd.modperl ? Fatal error 'Spinlock called when not threaded.' at line 83 in file /usr/src/lib/libpthread/thread/thr_spinlock.c (errno = 2)	10:00
nuba	this is in a freebsd 5.3-RELEASE running the latest wre	10:01
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nuba	morning folks, if anyone has any idea on this 'Spinlock called when not threaded.' error, please let me know	15:53
nuba	i've found about freebsd's /etc/libmap.conf, but it seems it isnt changing anything :/	15:54
+Radix_	Sorry nuba - never encountered it before	16:01
+Radix_	I've also never used freebsd tho	16:02
nuba	ok, thx anyway	16:08
@rizen	nuba, contact len@ilance.nl	16:43
@rizen	that's Len Kranendonk, i think you met him at the WUC	16:43
@rizen	he uses FreeBSD in webgui hosting	16:43
@rizen	he may have an answer for you	16:43
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nuba	back	22:16
nuba	cool, thx rizen, yeah i remember len	22:17
nuba	very cool guy	22:17
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+perlDreamer	MrHairGrease!	23:48
+perlDreamer	Just the guy that I need to talk to.	23:49
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease...?	23:49
+MrHairgrease	perldreamer	23:50
+MrHairgrease	talk!	23:50
+perlDreamer	I have some SQLForm questions for you.	23:50
+MrHairgrease	oh	23:50
+MrHairgrease	ok	23:50
+perlDreamer	1) Where is the code that prevents you from using the WebGUI database.	23:50
+MrHairgrease	shoot	23:50
+MrHairgrease	there is no such code	23:51
+MrHairgrease	the sqlform only drops the default db link from the list	23:51
+MrHairgrease	so you can use the wg db by creating an extra db link	23:51
+perlDreamer	Somebody nuked their site using the SQLForm	23:51
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/webgui-stops-working#wl1NfdrT4VgFU_KC1eg3cQ	23:52
+MrHairgrease	and they did that by using the default dblink	23:52
+MrHairgrease	id=0	23:52
+MrHairgrease	?	23:52
+MrHairgrease	yeah	23:52
+MrHairgrease	i read the report	23:52
+perlDreamer	Did you read the other bug report about the SQLForm permissions?	23:53
+MrHairgrease	prolly	23:53
+MrHairgrease	mostly i skim through the bug reports	23:53
+perlDreamer	they specified a wildcard in the grant for the database name	23:54
+MrHairgrease	yeah	23:54
+perlDreamer	why do permissions need to be checked?	23:54
+MrHairgrease	i didn't even know that you could do that	23:54
+perlDreamer	me either	23:54
+MrHairgrease	b/c if you don't have the right perms	23:55
+MrHairgrease	wg will fatal error	23:55
+MrHairgrease	and leave half an asset dangling in the tree	23:55
+MrHairgrease	and all that crap	23:55
+perlDreamer	ew. So you think that the SQLForm should handle the wildcard search?	23:55
+MrHairgrease	i guess so	23:56
+MrHairgrease	well	23:56
+MrHairgrease	actually i think mysql should ditch those wildcards in db names	23:56
+MrHairgrease	=)	23:56
+MrHairgrease	or even better	23:56
+perlDreamer	I think the DBI should provide a way to tell if a user has certain permissions in the database.	23:56
+MrHairgrease	create a generic meachnism to query perms	23:56
+MrHairgrease	and return those in one way	23:57
+MrHairgrease	yeah that too	23:57
+MrHairgrease	but it doesn't	23:57
+perlDreamer	no	23:57
+MrHairgrease	I actually spent a lot of time on figuring out a better way to do it	23:57
+MrHairgrease	but I failed	23:57
+perlDreamer	It's really pretty robust, but it has some edge cases.	23:58
* MrHairgrease retract into a corner and cries		23:58
+MrHairgrease	did you see my googlemaps macro btw?	23:58
* perlDreamer pats MrHairgrease on the head and hands him a scotch on the rocks.		23:58
+perlDreamer	Yes.	23:58
@preaction	i personally think we need to get rid of RaiseError in the DBI connections and handle all the errors ourselves (that way it would be possible to recover from things like that)	23:58
+perlDreamer	Very nice. I even voted for it.	23:58
+MrHairgrease	wow	23:58
+MrHairgrease	recognition =)	23:59
+MrHairgrease	yeah	23:59
+MrHairgrease	fatals on sql queries are a pain in the ass	23:59
+MrHairgrease	otoh we now know when the db's getting messed up =)	23:59
+perlDreamer	I've been having this idea for a website, and I need exactly that kind of functionality, but wrapped in an Asset.	23:59
+perlDreamer	The db will mess itself up, without our help.	23:59
--- Day changed Thu Jul 05 2007
+perlDreamer	db corruption sucks	00:00
+MrHairgrease	yeah	00:00
+MrHairgrease	but that' partly due to the lack of referential integrity in the wg schema	00:00
+MrHairgrease	i don't think there are any foreign keys in the db	00:00
+perlDreamer	no	00:01
+perlDreamer	no foreign keys	00:01
+MrHairgrease	so we have to rely on our leet haxor skills	00:01
+MrHairgrease	to keep it together	00:01
+perlDreamer	I need to learn SQL, because I don't know what a foreign key is.	00:01
+MrHairgrease	and i think we are doing a good job at that	00:01
+perlDreamer	It could be easier?	00:01
+MrHairgrease	i hear ya brother	00:02
+MrHairgrease	i'm in the same league	00:02
+perlDreamer	Okay, so it sounds like the SQLForm will happily let you shoot yourself in the foot. No fix	00:03
+MrHairgrease	yeah	00:03
+perlDreamer	But we should handle wildcard database names.	00:03
+perlDreamer	I can write tests for that.	00:03
+perlDreamer	I'll mock the DBI, and force it to send back data that I can shove into the _dbPermissions sub from SQLForm.	00:04
+MrHairgrease	it's just almost impossible to detect the actual db's that are in a link	00:04
+MrHairgrease	ok that'll be cool	00:04
+MrHairgrease	i'm really very busy with my graduation thingy	00:05
+perlDreamer	Is it related to your LED paper?	00:05
+MrHairgrease	but I'll be on my way to France by next monday	00:05
+MrHairgrease	no	00:05
+MrHairgrease	tunneljunctions	00:05
+MrHairgrease	i'll show you some stuff at the wuc	00:05
+perlDreamer	Cool!	00:06
+perlDreamer	Maybe I should bring some 1-wire parts, with the SHA-1 inside.	00:06
+perlDreamer	wait, tunnel junctions.	00:06
+MrHairgrease	cool	00:06
+perlDreamer	Are you doing EEPROM/Flash stuff?	00:06
+MrHairgrease	i won't be bringing parts though	00:07
+MrHairgrease	just images	00:07
+perlDreamer	okay	00:07
+MrHairgrease	you mean for my graduation?	00:07
+MrHairgrease	relating to the flash stuff	00:07
+perlDreamer	yes	00:07
+MrHairgrease	no	00:07
+MrHairgrease	it's more physics than electronics	00:07
+perlDreamer	ok	00:08
+perlDreamer	_databaseLinkHasPrivileges really belongs in DatabaseLink.pm, don't you think?	00:09
+MrHairgrease	yeah	00:09
+MrHairgrease	i think i discussed that with jt some day	00:09
+perlDreamer	On IRC?	00:10
+MrHairgrease	could be	00:10
+MrHairgrease	prolly	00:10
+perlDreamer	we need a dedicated logger in the channel with a search engine.	00:10
+MrHairgrease	or otherwise on the devlist	00:10
+MrHairgrease	yeah	00:10
+MrHairgrease	irc is quicker	00:10
+perlDreamer	much quicker	00:10
+MrHairgrease	but i kinda miss the devlist	00:10
+MrHairgrease	espescially since i'm in another tz	00:11
+perlDreamer	This is true.	00:11
+MrHairgrease	and lately i'm not on the channel very much	00:11
+perlDreamer	I'll throw the question out there, then you can reply and sound all sage and wise since we've already talked it through here :)	00:11
+MrHairgrease	ha	00:11
+MrHairgrease	i'll just paste my irc log	00:12
+MrHairgrease	easy money =)	00:12
+MrHairgrease	s/money/sageness/	00:12
+perlDreamer	I don't suppose Joeri is sitting around nearby?	00:13
+MrHairgrease	no	00:13
+perlDreamer	It should really be SQL.	00:13
+MrHairgrease	he isn't on msn either	00:13
+MrHairgrease	joeri should be sql?	00:14
+perlDreamer	No, there should be a SQL way of determining user rights.	00:14
+MrHairgrease	i agree	00:14
+perlDreamer	One that wraps the internal engine's API.	00:14
+perlDreamer	in a consistent, external query.	00:14
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+perlDreamer	bug --	00:25
+perlDreamer	perlbot: karma bug	00:25
perlbot	Karma for bug: 1	00:25
+perlDreamer	perlbot: karma bugs	00:25
perlbot	Karma for bugs: -2	00:25
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preaction_	question for those who go to geek meetings (perl mongers, LUG)	05:35
preaction_	would a porn joke be considered "out of line"?	05:35
preaction_	i'm thinking making a folder called XXX and putting a bunch of work documents, quipping "That's the name of the folder for stuff I don't like to look at"	05:35
vayde	I don't consider that out of line, but I'm not yr average geek	05:37
preaction_	i suppose it might be ... sexist, and we already have a big enough problem with women in the CS field...	05:38
vayde	I would use that, and far worse in the course of my classes	05:38
preaction_	i've got a two-hour presentation due in 8 days. i think i'm a little ... screwed	05:38
preaction_	but i work better under pressure ;)	05:39
vayde	If I can help, just holler	05:39
vayde	but I think that remark is pretty tame	05:39
preaction_	i googled for "perl one-liners" and found a wealth of material, just gotta cut it down and make it flow	05:39
preaction_	a one-line HTTP server: perl -MIO::All -e 'io(":8080")->fork->accept->(sub { $_[0] < io(-x $1 ? "./$1 \|" : $1) if /^GET \/(.*) / })'	05:40
vayde	nice	05:40
preaction_	you wouldn't happen to have any favorite modules to use in one-liners?	05:40
preaction_	i mean, LWP::Simple, CPAN, File::Path perhaps	05:41
preaction_	ooh, totally forgot about File::Path, I hate having to create deep directories1	05:41
vayde	not me. I'm not much of a one liner guy. I'll ask one of my guys	05:41
preaction_	perl -MFile::Path -e'mkpath "this/is/a/deep/directory"';	05:41
vayde	you're doing a presentation on one liners?	05:42
preaction_	yup	05:42
vayde	that's pretty cool	05:42
preaction_	http://madmongers.org/calendar/quick-and-dirty	05:42
preaction_	if i do nicely i might ask if one or more of the local LUGs would like to hear it (more converts for the fire)	05:43
vayde	very cool	05:43
preaction_	i think it's more of a rite-of-passage into complete nerd-dom. trial-by-fire and all that jazz	05:44
vayde	yeah, well, certain folks we both know like that kind of stuff	05:44
preaction_	if andy'll be there, he's already given a presentation on this, so i imagine i'll have some experts to ... assist in my... baptism	05:45
vayde	You'll do fine	05:45
preaction_	who do you think told me i had to do this ;)	05:45
* vayde nods, rolling his eyes		05:45
preaction_	it's not the presentation part i'm too worried about, i've got an actor's mentality to public speaking	05:45
vayde	how much public speaking/presentation experience do you have?	05:45
vayde	ahh, good	05:45
preaction_	it's that i'm going to be faking a lot of knowledge i won't have	05:45
preaction_	but i imagine "i don't know, but i can guess..." will be okay for this group	05:46
preaction_	or "i don't know, but i know where you can find the answer to that..."	05:46
vayde	so don't fake it. present what you know concisely	05:46
vayde	that will be fine I'm sure	05:46
vayde	one of the coolest and most liberating things about being a teacher in any capacity is the ability to say 'I don't know'	05:47
preaction_	a lot of it will be CPAN modules, so there's an out ("look on CPAN for the X::X module")	05:47
preaction_	but then again, learning while writing this thing is the main reason i'm doing it	05:48
vayde	should be fun	05:49
preaction_	i hope so. plus i imagine JT'll be there, so not entirely hostile audience (someone I can bounce bad jokes off of)	05:49
vayde	Or at least hide behind if the crowd gets too surly.	05:50
vayde	big dude like that will block many thrown objects	05:50
preaction_	i dunno, if they start chucking laptops i think i'm going to have to find something female to distract them while i make a break for it	05:51
preaction_	i'll bring the GF!	05:51
vayde	Are you in Madison?	05:51
preaction_	no, Oshkosh is about 90 minutes away	05:52
vayde	I'll be in town on Sunday	05:52
vayde	Hmm I'll have to look at a map, if it's not too far off the path, maybe we can grab a brew?	05:53
preaction_	it's up hwy 151 (60 minutes) until hwy 26 (30 minutes)	05:53
preaction_	what time would you be thinking?	05:54
vayde	I'm done about 5-ish	05:54
vayde	I'll need to eat something, and then head for home	05:55
preaction_	ah	05:55
vayde	I'll have some time though. Just have to be back in time for work on Mon	05:56
preaction_	iirc i was planning on going to Wild Rose sunday during the day, which would put me closer to madison than oshkosh.	05:57
preaction_	the issue being my gf would be coming with, and she's not yet of the age to go bar-hopping	05:58
preaction_	i imagine there're decent bar/grills around madtown though	05:58
vayde	honestly, I probably shouldn't do a lot of drinking witha 4 hr drive ahead of me	05:58
preaction_	which would work better anyway	05:58
vayde	last I heard, my gf is coming along too, we could at least have dinner	05:58
preaction_	4 hrs? why do you need to be in madison?	05:59
vayde	I have students there.	05:59
preaction_	so once a month or bi-weekly or something?	05:59
vayde	I don't really want to drive 4 hours each way and spend my only down day in a seminar, but the kids are so dedicated	05:59
vayde	monthly	05:59
vayde	at least in theory	06:00
preaction_	ahh	06:00
vayde	It was less of a problem when I didn't have 2 jobs	06:00
vayde	or when the second job was technically IN madison	06:00
vayde	hey preaction_, did JT finish the new version of the wre?	06:36
preaction_	i'm not quite sure if it's finished yet, we've been busy	06:37
preaction_	i think that was his hope this week, but right now he's at the origins games expo thingy	06:37
preaction_	but it was also his hope last week, and iirc the week before too	06:37
vayde	hmm, my wre is incompatible with the latest version of wg.	06:37
preaction_	7.4 requires 0.8 i think	06:37
preaction_	at least, the modules that come with 0.8	06:38
preaction_	might have to run sbin/testEnvironment.pl	06:38
vayde	is that whats in the repo right now? 7.4?	06:38
preaction_	that's the trunk, yes	06:38
vayde	yeah, that would explain the errors	06:39
vayde	but wre 0.8 isn't out?	06:39
preaction_	not that i'm aware of yet	06:39
preaction_	major changes from what i hear, and the abolishment of a separate windows WRE	06:39
vayde	wild. be interested to see how that was accomplished	06:41
preaction_	i'm more interested in the new features, apparently a perldoc server has been added	06:42
preaction_	to view perldoc of WebGUI modules	06:42
vayde	cool	06:42
vayde	god I miss wG	06:42
vayde	I keep thinking once things settle down a bit I'll be able to do some more development here	06:43
preaction_	word. it's hard to believe that just a few weeks ago the bug list was down to 6 :(	06:43
vayde	lol	06:43
vayde	I haven't looked at it	06:43
vayde	any of them with the email password recovery?	06:44
preaction_	not that i remember	06:44
vayde	that's nice.	06:44
vayde	I can't make heads or tails of the new site. It's pretty, but I can't find anything.	06:45
vayde	where's the buglist?	06:45
preaction_	http://webgui.org/bugs	06:45
vayde	ahh, now I see	06:46
vayde	that's the nice thing about wG. I'd actually like to solve probelms with it, learn more about it	06:46
vayde	with the crap I'm working on right now. It's hard to care	06:46
vayde	It's kinda like diagnosing problems on windows: Step 1) use something else	06:47
preaction_	lol	06:47
vayde	the only good note is it's just temporary. We all hate it.	06:48
preaction_	indeed	06:48
vayde	there we go. dev environment is back up	06:50
vayde	now I better go back to the fun stuff	06:50
preaction_	goodluck	06:50
vayde	you should see the autoloader on this bastard	06:51
vayde	I'd post it, but that might violate something	06:51
preaction_	mmmm NDAs	06:51
preaction_	proprietary systems	06:51
vayde	no NDA	06:51
preaction_	trade sekrits?	06:52
vayde	that kinda surprised me	06:52
vayde	I'm sure somebody thinks so	06:52
vayde	they've been surprisingly lax	06:52
preaction_	i imagine you signed your rights to your code away? like responsible colleges do to professors on fellowship?	06:52
vayde	no, nothing	06:52
preaction_	huh	06:53
vayde	I had to sign more to work with PB than I did to work for usbank	06:53
vayde	I've signed _nothing_	06:53
vayde	gf is not coming, but we could still grab dinner if you like preaction_	07:51
vayde	do you have my cell?	07:51
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preaction_	uhm, i'd like to but it looks like wild rose is a bit further from madison than I anticipated (2 hrs.), and the idea with going to WR is to introduce the GF to the mother (and hopefully the siblings)	07:58
preaction_	is it always the first weekend of the month? that's rocky weekend	07:58
vayde	naw, depends on when all involved are free	08:04
vayde	there'll be another time	08:04
vayde	I'll be back on the 12th of August	08:04
preaction_	was just wondering, if you had a place to stay the Velvet Darkness does their thing the 1,3,5 saturday at 11:30p at the Orpheum	08:05
preaction_	another time, then	08:05
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vayde	cool. I'd come out Sat. night if I had somewhere to stay, but as it is, I'll just drive out early and drive back in late	08:07
preaction_	ah	08:07
vayde	I'd stay with my students, but they have dogs, and you know me... delicate	08:07
preaction_	yes... delicate	08:07
vayde	http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/incorrect-content#ALpxo5ydXhwsVd9c6ySbuw	08:13
vayde	that's not much of a bug	08:13
vayde	recon you can squash it real quick. I don't have access anymore	08:14
preaction_	eh, i could if i weren't doing other things	08:14
vayde	just lettin you know...	08:14
preaction_	actually that's a wiki page, everybody should be able to change that. and those two tutorials should be in the wiki somewhere already	08:17
vayde	I'll see what I can do	08:17
vayde	new site is slicker than snake snot	08:24
vayde	you ever check out vimperator?	08:29
preaction_	nope	08:30
vayde	It's pretty cool. turns firefox into vim mor ore less	08:30
vayde	keybindings, commands, etc	08:31
preaction_	nice	08:31
vayde	pretty cool, doesn't play nice with wG though apparently.	08:31
preaction_	would be interesting, i find myself using vim commands in firefox on a regular basis (space to page down, / to find, ctrl+b to go back a page, etc...)	08:33
vayde	check it out	08:34
vayde	actually, it's pretty easy to get it to play with wG now that I find the trick	08:35
vayde	can I close the bug? or do I have to tell someone to do it?	08:36
preaction_	i think you'd have to tell someone to do it	08:38
vayde	someone other than you?	08:39
preaction_	nono, i can do it	08:39
vayde	lol	08:39
vayde	no worries, sooner or later someone with the power will look at it, and take care of it	08:39
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SDuensin	Good morning!	15:36
ckotil	hello	15:38
SDuensin	Hi ckotil	15:40
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* pjesi misses news on the frontpage		20:32
* cap10morgan does too		20:36
@preaction	like release news?	20:46
pjesi	for instance	20:59
pjesi	it is now only on the commercial site	20:59
@preaction	anyone know who wrote the new user invite thing for 7.4? was it perlDreamer?	21:26
@preaction	as a side note, i like 7.4 and think it will be teh awesome. a lot of RFEs went into this one	21:31
@preaction	first release in 2 weeks	21:32
@preaction	maybe 3	21:32
* pjesi does not yet had a look at it		22:02
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perlmonkey2	Is it possible to do a passthrough on a cgi directory?	23:03
@preaction	passthrough tells webgui to ignore it, you'd have to tell apache what to do with it, but it might be better to have that directory bypass webgui entirely using a <Directory> or a <Location> directive (either that or you have to do both, i forget which)	23:04
perlmonkey2	What do you mean by directory bypass?	23:39
@preaction	perlmonkey2: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-get-passthruurls-to-work	23:48
@preaction	i imagine you can SetHandler cgi-script .pl .cgi after SetHandler None (to remove the mod_perl handler)	23:49
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perlmonkey2	Weird, it was the sethandler none that worked. I had sethandler PerlScript and that just gave me the .pl code.	23:51
@preaction	that's an apache issue, #apache can help, but might i suggest SetHandler cgi-script .pl	23:52
perlmonkey2	preaction: no, sethandler none fixed it. now it works. just strange.	23:52
--- Day changed Fri Jul 06 2007
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+perlDreamer	preaction: you were looking for me?	00:00
@preaction	do you have any idea why the value for a required on registration element would be "HASH(0xblah)"?	00:01
@preaction	i've got one site from unitedknowledge that's doing this	00:01
@preaction	and i have so little information about what's going on there that i can't figure it out	00:01
@preaction	i can't reproduce	00:02
+perlDreamer	Is that part of User Invite, or the password recovery stuff?	00:02
@preaction	http://arjan.unitedknowledge.nl/?op=auth;method=createAccount <- this	00:02
@preaction	i noticed some weird code in the createAccount sub: $emailField = {}; but later it's treated as a scalar (when getting the e-mail from the invite code)	00:03
+perlDreamer	that might explain the email address, but not the second field.	00:04
+perlDreamer	Hm. With user invites turned off, the hash ref leaks through.	00:06
+perlDreamer	That's a bug.	00:06
@preaction	oh, it happens when it's turned OFF... god	00:07
+perlDreamer	How do you pull an old rev out of SVN?	00:08
@preaction	svn up -r<revision>	00:08
@preaction	i was thinking that too, it might be a bug already fixed	00:08
+perlDreamer	No, I'm running on head and it's still in there.	00:10
+perlDreamer	And there's the other bug, stomping on the required fields.	00:11
@preaction	wtf why does it not show up on my site?	00:12
+perlDreamer	Do you have user invitations turned on?	00:12
@preaction	i tried it turned on, i tried it turned off	00:12
@preaction	neither	00:12
+perlDreamer	what rev are you running?	00:13
+perlDreamer	And do you have profile fields set as required?	00:13
@preaction	i'm running HEAD, and i set them as show on registration, i'll check required	00:14
@preaction	email is: visible, editable, required, and show at registration	00:14
+perlDreamer	The fix is very simple	00:15
+perlDreamer	vim Auth.pm	00:15
+perlDreamer	s/emailAddress = \{\}/emailAddress = undef/	00:15
@preaction	oh god, i couldn't see it because i had fixed it already	00:16
+perlDreamer	Dude, you're psychic!	00:16
@preaction	christ...	00:16
+perlDreamer	Commit the fix and remember to chastise me thoroughly in the commit log	00:16
@preaction	k	00:17
+perlDreamer	why does Config->set have to write the config file?	01:41
nuba	whoa, i've just received the June edition of IEEE's computer magazine	01:47
nuba	there's a nice article about this tool called Koala	01:47
+perlDreamer	what is it?	01:47
nuba	being developed by IBM, targetting web scripting for the masses	01:47
nuba	you go to a website, use it, fill a form, submit, do stuff, etc.	01:48
nuba	all that gets recorded by a firefox sidebar	01:48
nuba	in plaintext format	01:48
nuba	you can share that script, edit it, etc	01:48
nuba	it recognizes the places in which you have to fill for stuff and asks the user for it	01:48
+perlDreamer	like HTTP::Recorder ?	01:49
nuba	really cool when it comes to automating using websites	01:49
nuba	from what i understand, HTTP::Recorder works like a proxy, right ?	01:49
+perlDreamer	Yes. If you combine it with WWW::Mechanize, it would do what you're talking abuot	01:50
+perlDreamer	but requires hacker-level proficiency, not typical-user	01:50
nuba	but the researcher there states the goal of this tool is to help "small teams easily automate their own idiosyncratic workflows"	01:50
nuba	and to build a community of people sharing these automations on the web	01:50
nuba	yeah im familiar with www::mechanize	01:50
nuba	you really have to see the screenshots of the sidebar with the script to get the gist of it	01:52
+perlDreamer	Is it online publicly?	01:52
nuba	its sooo like stuff my parents would be able to use	01:53
nuba	just a sec..	01:53
nuba	yeah here you have it: http://www.computer.org/portal/site/computer/menuitem.eb7d70008ce52e4b0ef1bd108bcd45f3/index.jsp?&pName=computer_level1&path=computer/homepage/June07&file=invisible.xml&xsl=article.xsl&;jsessionid=GN2rhtFcSdyv4pLTT1TCdBH4v9vm3ngJT0j81y1kLvL29kZ9g2vS!1599257154	01:54
nuba	or http://tinyurl.com/3eyk4x	01:54
nuba	i went to IBM's website right away but its not yet available	01:55
+perlDreamer	You're right. It's very social. Kind of like a scripted, interactive HOWTO.	01:56
+perlDreamer	But I also see where it could be used to browser level test automation.	01:56
nuba	notice in one of the images, this toolbar: "open in sidebar" "run" "edit" "duplicate" etc.	01:56
nuba	and below the script, the comments from other usres	01:57
nuba	users*	01:57
nuba	this pic: http://tinyurl.com/3a5vh8	01:57
nuba	yeah this would make writing automated tests also very easy	01:58
nuba	i have some problems with www::mechanize, mostly because of javascript editing the dom	01:58
+perlDreamer	The interface reminds of VB macros in Microsoft Office.	01:58
+perlDreamer	Yeah, I've looked a little at Selenium to handle problems like that, but it seems like a steep learning curve.	01:59
nuba	well when that happens with me i have to grab the html from the mech, edit it as needed myself, and feed it again to the mech	02:00
nuba	so that means coupling www::mechanize with firefox's webdeveloper and livehttpheader extensions	02:00
nuba	its really messy	02:00
nuba	looking at selenium now	02:02
+perlDreamer	Doea Koala require installing a plug-in, or does it work entirely in Javascript?	02:05
nuba	well as of yet it seems like a firefox extension to me	02:08
nuba	theres a nice video in the ibm website too	02:09
+perlDreamer	I'll have to check that out at home.	02:09
+perlDreamer	No multimedia at $dayJob	02:09
nuba	heh i'll stop now	02:09
nuba	heh btw im by no means whatsoever involved with IBM or the koala initiative etc. etc.	02:10
nuba	:)	02:10
+perlDreamer	Hey, it does sound very cool.	02:10
+perlDreamer	I'd rather write koala than Selenium/Mech code any day.	02:10
+perlDreamer	It's natural language.	02:10
+perlDreamer	That means we could get WebGUI users to record bug statements and then publish them.	02:11
+perlDreamer	No more trying to guess how they did something.	02:11
+perlDreamer	Then those bugs become part of the permanent record for wG.	02:11
nuba	yeah its amazing what you could do with that	02:11
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SDuensin	Good morning.	15:39
+Radix_	evenin'	17:12
SDuensin	Hi Radix_	17:12
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+perlDreamer	Morning folks	17:50
@preaction	morning	17:51
+perlDreamer	I noted your commt from last night, preaction	17:54
+perlDreamer	You forgot to chastise me :)	17:54
@preaction	meh	17:54
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+crythias	and then I said to her... Necklace? I thought you said Perl Module...	18:36
+perlDreamer	That's how you always get the girls, crythias.	18:37
+crythias	Somehow, "Let me insert my module in your filesystem" just doesn't seem to be an aphrodisiac with most women.	18:37
+perlDreamer	no, filesystems are about storage.	18:38
+perlDreamer	They want to be a module in your kernel, not some peripheral.	18:38
+crythias	"I promise it's taint safe"	18:38
+crythias	well, as long as I can insmod or kldmod	18:39
+perlDreamer	So what's up in the BSD-using WebGUI world?	18:39
nuba	suffering	18:40
nuba	with thread libs and modperl crashing	18:40
nuba	> Fatal error 'Spinlock called when not threaded.' at line 83 in file /usr/src/lib/libpthread/thread/thr_spinlock.c (errno = 2)	18:40
+crythias	well, what with it using ImageMagick.	18:40
nuba	?	18:41
+crythias	grr	18:41
+perlDreamer	It's only 3 weeks 'til the 7.4 WebGUI and 0.8 WRE release.	18:41
+crythias	oh?	18:41
+perlDreamer	Then it will start using GraphicsMagick instead	18:41
+perlDreamer	Yes	18:41
+crythias	I spose I should update my faq	18:41
nuba	no shit!	18:44
nuba	its gone!!! :o	18:44
+perlDreamer	Serious, nuba.	18:44
+perlDreamer	Huh?	18:44
+perlDreamer	What do you mean?	18:44
nuba	its been three days since this was kicking my ass	18:44
+perlDreamer	mod_perl stuff on BSD?	18:44
nuba	oh damn	18:44
nuba	not really, its still here	18:44
nuba	ugh	18:44
nuba	yes, mod_perl, threads, freebsd...	18:45
nuba	now its not producing that Spinlock error anymore	18:46
nuba	its only silently segfaulting	18:46
nuba	aint it lovely?	18:46
+perlDreamer	Is switching to a different BSD or Linux an option?	18:46
nuba	this is with the 7.2 wre, btw	18:46
nuba	is gonna be, if it continues like this	18:46
nuba	wre on linux has always been smooth for me	18:47
+perlDreamer	I haven't used the WRE yet. I've always used Fedora's packages.	18:48
nuba	with freebsd the install is all about "ok, lets find out about what went wrong this time" moments	18:48
nuba	at least for me	18:48
nuba	ok, this is looking good	18:51
nuba	now for the record, if anyone else gets stuck on this	18:51
* perlDreamer suggests a wiki page		18:51
+perlDreamer	instead of an IRC log	18:51
nuba	hmm can be	18:52
+perlDreamer	It _is_more work, but you'll reach a whole lot more people that way.	18:52
nuba	true	18:53
+perlDreamer	Make you a deal. If you'll share the fix, I can make the wiki page.	18:53
nuba	im already at the wiki, thx anyway :)	18:55
nuba	where would freebsd-specific notes go there ? a new wiki page, or as a section into the http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-building one?	18:56
+perlDreamer	I would make a new page. WRE-Building-on-BSD	18:57
nuba	k	18:57
nuba	these I have here are just are just scattered notes, no text structure or much coment, is that fine ?	18:58
nuba	i figure its a good seed	18:58
+perlDreamer	Sure.	18:58
nuba	if someone wants to build upon it later	18:58
+perlDreamer	The new version may make the info unnecessary, but it will help people today, and who don't want to upgrade yet.	18:59
+perlDreamer	preaction: ping	19:03
@preaction	ACK!	19:03
+perlDreamer	Can you please move this http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/webguiuser-has-no-way-to-get-a-user-when-you-only-know-their-username	19:03
+perlDreamer	to the RFE section?	19:03
@preaction	k	19:04
+perlDreamer	thanks	19:05
@preaction	i imagine assigning it a difficulty of 1 would be prudent, since the patch seems stable	19:06
+perlDreamer	indeed.	19:07
+perlDreamer	In fact, maybe someone with SVN access will add it himself. Perhaps even write test code for it.	19:07
+perlDreamer	But it has to be an RFE for that ;)	19:07
nuba	no words for how im happy after getting modperl to act straight on freebsd :)	19:07
nuba	they joy of bugfixing :)	19:08
+perlDreamer	Should I be worried that it took 3 days for an email to the WebGUI dev list to come through?	19:08
nuba	or rather, circunventing	19:08
@preaction	i just nudged spectre, i think there's still a problem with the cron code	19:20
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nuba	im so lucky	19:25
nuba	getting an error with spectre now	19:25
nuba	root@aviva# date	19:25
nuba	Fri Jul 6 08:19:25 UTC 2007	19:25
nuba	root@aviva# perl spectre.pl --run	19:25
nuba	Cannot determine local time zone	19:25
nuba	should I fill a bug ?	19:25
+perlDreamer	That may not be a WebGUI bug, but a DateTime bug.	19:25
ckotil	we're encountering a bug with date time, not webgui related tho	19:26
+perlDreamer	do share :)	19:26
nuba	it triggers here	19:26
nuba	211: POE::Kernel->run();	19:26
nuba	leaves the spectre.pl code here	19:27
nuba	main::(./spectre.pl:107): Spectre::Admin->new($config, $debug);	19:27
ckotil	im not sure of the specifics.	19:27
nuba	im trying with the machine's date not set to UTC	19:27
nuba	ok, doing this..	19:31
nuba	root@aviva# cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Sao_Paulo /etc/localtime	19:31
nuba	root@aviva# perl ./spectre.pl --run	19:31
nuba	it works fine	19:31
nuba	is that a bug?	19:32
+perlDreamer	Only for the operating system.	19:32
nuba	i see	19:33
nuba	i know this may look dumb, but how do i add a new topic to the wiki ?	19:52
nuba	i tried addind a link to the toc and work from there, but it didnt worked	19:52
+perlDreamer	It's not dumb. It's obfuscated.	19:52
+perlDreamer	Search for a page	19:52
+perlDreamer	The search results page will give you a link to add a new page.	19:52
nuba	ok. thx	19:52
+perlDreamer	preaction: is that RFE considered "approved"?	20:02
@preaction	i don't know, while i would approve it, i don't know what TMRFE will say to it	20:02
+perlDreamer	well, I have it all prepped, including testing code.	20:02
+perlDreamer	I'll wait till he weighs in	20:02
+perlDreamer	Anyone know cap10morgan's real name?	20:07
nuba	added http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-building-on-freebsd-5.3 to the wiki	20:09
+perlDreamer	Thanks, nuba!	20:17
+perlDreamer	ckotil: you may want to read that article, since he also had lftp building problems.	20:18
nuba	bbiaw	20:24
+perlDreamer	lunch, then Transformers. cya later	21:53
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ckotil	ah, thanks.	23:37
ckotil	transformers rockd!	23:38
nuba	it transformed me	23:41
nuba	in a dissatisfied moviegoer	23:41
nuba	:/	23:41
nuba	i think it didnt live up to my expectations as one who watched transformer toons as a kid	23:42
nuba	dunno	23:43
nuba	i felt like the trailers i've seen were better than the movie (!)	23:44
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ckotil	heh	00:26
ckotil	heading home.	00:26
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@preaction	Radix_: you around? have you heard anything good or bad about the Nokia N75 phone?	08:34
+Radix_	Hiya	08:40
+Radix_	I really don't know much about nokia smartphone's myself. I went windows mobile years ago and haven't looked back :) I like reading ebooks too much.	08:41
@preaction	sup	08:41
@preaction	yeah, it'd be nice to get a WM5 phone, but i also have to think about what plainblack will buy me	08:42
+Radix_	Ahh.. salary sacrificing for it or something like that?	08:42
@preaction	no, i got a raise for taking on the responsibility of being on-call	08:43
@preaction	so they'll pay for a phone/plan	08:43
@preaction	within reason	08:43
+Radix_	heh.. k	08:43
@preaction	they won't pay for an iphone, but a $50 i'm sure i can convince vrby	08:43
@preaction	i got the financing for my house, so i'll be broke for a few months because of the down payment	08:43
@preaction	unfortunately, when i can't even make calls because the damn antenna is gone on my motorola 8200	08:44
+Radix_	doh	08:44
@preaction	plus, it'd be very very nice to find a phone with bluetooth DUN	08:44
+Radix_	sony ericson make some nice phones, but they're not really smartphones	08:44
@preaction	nokia N75 has it, but i've been reading these reviews saying that the battery life is rather low (it says 4 hours of talk, 8 days of standby, but these reviewers say less)	08:44
@preaction	doesn't have to be very smart	08:45
@preaction	i need: mp3, bluetooth DUN, link with any OS	08:45
@preaction	and apparently branded phones are crap, but that's about all you can get in the US	08:46
+Radix_	my gf has the sony ericson k800i and is pretty happy with it	08:46
@preaction	http://www.myrateplan.com/iphone_compare/ <- i've been looking at this thing	08:46
@preaction	the ericson W810i is on there, and that seems nice	08:47
@preaction	except for the no high-speed data (EDGE / HDsomething)	08:47
+Radix_	hers has a 3.2mp camera which takes some pretty good shots	08:47
@preaction	jesus	08:47
@preaction	it's a camera that happens to be a phone	08:49
+Radix_	it's actually a pretty decent phone too	08:50
@preaction	yeah, it does look nice, would work for just about all i need, now to find a carrier	08:50
+Radix_	We don't really have anything faster than edge here tho, so don't know about hsdpa	08:50
@preaction	sometimes i swear the america gets shafted because of our system of "phone goes with network plan"	08:56
@preaction	http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n95-1716.php <- holy crap me wanty!	08:57
@preaction	which is, of course, $700 for the phone	08:58
+Radix_	They have a phone/plan combo here too.. which is how most people buy stuff.. but you can buy a phone outright as well - it just costs a bit more	09:09
+Radix_	especially for the higher end phones, as the lower ones get subsidized a lot	09:09
@preaction	i'm tempted to wait until open moko is released on a phone	09:21
@preaction	a free OS for mobile phones would be awesome	09:21
+Radix_	heh	09:21
@preaction	it's like we're at the cusp of a mobile computing revolution, and it'd be stupid to try to find a decent one until the dust settles	09:25
@preaction	on one end, you have the iphone, on another end, the neo1973, and you've got every other company pushing to get towards the iphone	09:26
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+perlDreamer	Does anyone know why WebGUI::Storage::Image doesn't recoginize tiff's or bmp's as image files?	00:02
+MrHairgrease	no	00:04
+MrHairgrease	ther just not is some array in trhat file	00:04
+MrHairgrease	but why they aren't i do not know	00:04
+perlDreamer	Dude, this cannot be. I thought you knew everything?!	00:07
+MrHairgrease	i do	00:07
+MrHairgrease	but tomorrow i'll be off to France	00:07
+MrHairgrease	so i'm on vacation	00:07
+MrHairgrease	ask me again in three weeks =)	00:07
+perlDreamer	You have a good vacation, Martin. You've earned it.	00:07
+perlDreamer	Drink some great wine and eat some stinky cheese.	00:08
+MrHairgrease	i hate cheese	00:09
+MrHairgrease	but i'll compensate with some extra wine	00:09
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@rizen	nuba, r u here?	00:59
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+Radix-wrk	http://video.on.nytimes.com/?fr_story=f390265dcbb9e1f1da97a69637e921d39b6c99aa - iPhone: the Musical	03:32
@rizen	that's hillarious	03:47
+Radix-wrk	:)	03:56
+Radix-wrk	He seems to do a good assessment of the pro's and con's too :)	03:57
+Radix-wrk	you got one yet JT?	03:57
@rizen	well at least of the perceived pros and cons	03:57
@rizen	yup	03:57
@rizen	got it on iphone friday	03:57
+Radix-wrk	heh	03:57
+Radix-wrk	Got root access yet?	03:57
@rizen	no, don't care to	03:58
@rizen	not at least until people learn how to install applications on it	03:58
+Radix-wrk	not even curious? :)	03:58
@rizen	last week i was on site at a convention that one of our clients was running, and i took the iphone	03:58
@rizen	but i left my laptop in the room	03:58
@rizen	while on the convention floor i used the iphone to look up informaiton on the web, check the status of some web sites, keep in touch with my staff and convention folks through email and phone	03:59
@rizen	i took notes of software issues, kept all my appointments with the calendar	03:59
@rizen	woke myself up each morning with the built in alarm clock	03:59
+Radix-wrk	cool	03:59
@rizen	and took pictures of the convention attendees	04:00
@rizen	i can honestly say, that the iphone was AWESOME for this	04:00
+Radix-wrk	Do you guys have data charges in the US for web browsing/email/etc?	04:00
@rizen	not a single problem	04:00
@rizen	it's built in to the cell phone	04:00
@rizen	unlimited data transfer	04:00
@rizen	built into the plan i mean	04:00
+Radix-wrk	What kind of plan is that?	04:01
+Radix-wrk	cost?	04:01
@rizen	my wife and i both have iphones, and we get 400 SMS messages, 1400 anytime minutes, free in-network calling, unlimited nights and weekends, and unlimited data transfer for $130 (total for the 2 phones)	04:02
@rizen	$130/month	04:02
+Radix-wrk	Hmm.. expensive plan	04:03
@rizen	expensive compared to a regular cell phone plan	04:03
@rizen	but cheap compared to most PDA / Smartphone plans	04:04
@rizen	at least in the US	04:04
@rizen	don't know about abroad	04:04
@rizen	most smartphone plans don't have unlimited data	04:04
@rizen	and most only come with 100 sms messages	04:05
@rizen	for that price	04:05
+Radix-wrk	Ahh k.. that sounds more like it is here then	04:05
@rizen	i went to a wedding this weekend where half of the people there were from oz	04:13
@rizen	the groom is a friend of mine from sydney	04:13
@rizen	but people came in from all over	04:14
+Radix-wrk	We get around :)	04:15
+Radix-wrk	Besides.. it's cold and wet here.. so of course we'd want to go north :)	04:15
+Radix-wrk	http://www.gearlive.com/news/article/q307-how-to-use-irc-on-the-iphone/	04:31
@rizen	requires your local pc to be on and in range	04:33
+Radix-wrk	true	04:34
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sstanvir	hello!	07:56
rizen_	howdy	07:56
sstanvir	how r u doing?	07:56
rizen_	terrible, and you?	07:57
sstanvir	haha..	07:57
sstanvir	i dont know how I am now ...;)	07:57
sstanvir	i am having serious problem with webGUI cache	07:57
sstanvir	r u in the mood of discussion ?	07:58
rizen_	i'll see what i can do	07:58
sstanvir	great	07:58
rizen_	be warned that i don't really do support on this channel...but we'll see	07:58
sstanvir	thats enough.. thnx	07:59
sstanvir	the problem is..	07:59
sstanvir	our customer is always complaining that +	07:59
sstanvir	he is always gets old content (from our server that uses webGUI)	07:59
sstanvir	we setup the "prevent proxy-caching"	07:59
sstanvir	+	08:00
sstanvir	but now its like.. +	08:00
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sstanvir	when we refresh a page.. it still shows the old content+	08:00
sstanvir	it only shows the new content when we close the browser +	08:00
sstanvir	and reopen it	08:00
sstanvir	(browser = IE)	08:00
sstanvir	what should I do now?	08:01
rizen_	what version do you use?	08:02
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sstanvir	7.0.6	08:03
rizen_	that's the problem	08:05
sstanvir	?	08:05
rizen_	7.3.18 and above has all cache problems fixed	08:05
rizen_	there's no easy way to backport them to 7.0	08:06
sstanvir	hmm	08:07
sstanvir	I am afraid. management can't afford to setup new version of webGUI at the moment	08:07
sstanvir	it's a always up server ..	08:07
sstanvir	isn't there any patch or something like that?	08:08
rizen_	i just said no	08:08
rizen_	and you don't need to set up a new server	08:08
rizen_	you just need to upgrade	08:08
sstanvir	hmm	08:08
sstanvir	problem is original sources have been changed to meet requirements..	08:09
rizen_	well if you want to try and patch it yourself you can	08:10
rizen_	the changes were made in lib/WebGUI.pm	08:11
rizen_	and lib/WebGUI/Session/Http.pm	08:11
rizen_	i think that's it	08:11
sstanvir	ah.. cool	08:11
+Radix-wrk	rizen: is wg 7.4 going to have those changes to allow users to change their passwords easier? (without involving entering in profile fields like 7.3 does?)	08:11
rizen_	if you search through https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI	08:11
rizen_	you might be able to find the specific patches made	08:11
rizen_	yes	08:11
+Radix-wrk	cool.. just checking :)	08:12
+Radix-wrk	We're still using 7.08 because of that ourselves	08:12
sstanvir	ok rizen, I will pass on the info to my team lead..	08:13
sstanvir	lets see if it works patching lib/WebGUI.pm and lib/WebGUI/Session/Http.pm	08:14
sstanvir	thank u very much	08:14
rizen_	why would you change the core of WebGUI/	08:15
rizen_	?	08:15
sstanvir	well.. i dont know much.. but	08:16
sstanvir	like instead of webGUI authentication method.. some other modules have been made	08:16
sstanvir	i guess not much change..	08:16
sstanvir	but drop by drop it made huge changes	08:16
rizen_	yeah, and it sounds like you used plugin points	08:17
rizen_	and if that's true	08:17
rizen_	then there's no problem	08:17
sstanvir	i guess so	08:17
+Radix-wrk	any authentication modules the rest of us could benefit from? :)	08:18
sstanvir	:)	08:22
sstanvir	actually its nothing special ..	08:23
sstanvir	just changed too add some function for user validation or password recovery methods..	08:24
+Radix-wrk	http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BeyondElvisEinsteinAndMortNewProgrammingStereotypesForWeb20.aspx	08:59
+Radix-wrk	hehe.. I'm right at the end in that - the "Not-The-Sysadmin" guy :)	09:02
+Radix-wrk	On a related note: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33210	09:13
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SDuensin	Good morning!	15:49
ckotil	good morning	15:53
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Khaytsus	preaction: Remember my "asses have disapeared" issue from a week ago? It's mysteriously fixed.	20:26
Khaytsus	One clue I've gotten is someone said "I went to your page, went to register, filled it out, got the email, and when I clicked the link to verify, the page was blank"	20:26
Khaytsus	And that was ~7 days ago	20:26
Khaytsus	So my guess is some process involved in that did some maintenance or something..... I've disabled anonymous registration for now.	20:27
@rizen	nuba, are you around?	20:27
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nuba	rizen: around?	22:17
@rizen	yeah, on phone...be with you in a min	22:18
nuba	ok, bbiab, relocating..	22:18
@rizen	i'm back when you are	22:20
nuba	hey	22:20
nuba	im @ university atm, will be back at home later today	22:20
nuba	whats up?	22:20
@rizen	was wondering what the status of the maps asset was....do you think you'll be finished by the feature freeze date (July 2)	22:21
@rizen	July 20	22:21
nuba	i hope so	22:21
nuba	whats the real deadline, for me to submit this to you ?	22:22
nuba	i understand you want to launch 7.4 onjuly 20, isn't it so ?	22:22
@rizen	yes...july 20	22:23
@rizen	that's the real deadline	22:23
nuba	getting this to you on july 20's noon time would be ok ?	22:24
@rizen	yup	22:25
nuba	awesome. will keep it in mind, of course the sooner the better :)	22:26
nuba	i've got a couple of gmaps ebooks to boost me up to speed	22:27
nuba	so im confident i'll make it in time for the deadline	22:28
@rizen	sweet	22:28
@rizen	i really want to use it on webgui.org	22:28
@rizen	so webgui users can stick a pin in it for wherever they are and we'll know how far reaching the community is	22:28
nuba	that'd be rad!	22:29
@rizen	it would also be neat to see if there are other users local to yourself	22:29
@rizen	so in my case, how many webgui users in wisconsin	22:29
@rizen	or in your case, brazil	22:29
@preaction	rizen: the new 7.4 password recovery, should it be possible to turn it off? or should it always be "email" unless it is "profile field"?	22:29
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@rizen	it should be "off", "email", or "profile based"	22:30
@rizen	that way we can also add others later if we want	22:30
@rizen	and some sites don't want you to get back in if you lost your account	22:30
@preaction	because either this patch wasn't finished or whoever wrote it was being durned lazy...	22:30
@rizen	that sux	22:30
@preaction	eh, to be expected	22:30
@rizen	the good news is that whomever wrote it doesn't work here anymore, and therefore we don't have to put up with crap from them	22:31
nuba	huh	22:33
@rizen	nothing for you to worry about nuba	22:35
@rizen	just an RFE for 7.4 that one of our former employees only half wrote, but that said was done	22:35
@preaction	yeah, this is what'll take my day today...	22:37
@preaction	if i'd like the WebGUI::Operation::Settings->www_editSettings to be able to display an error message, knowing that the settings that comprise the form can come from anywhere, would i have to use a session scratch variable (like WebGUI::Asset->www_edit currently does)?	22:41
@preaction	nevermind, i think i have a good idea	22:42
nuba	bbiaw	22:50
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Khaytsus	preaction: You notice I mentioend my assetts problem went away earlier? :)	23:48
@preaction	yup	23:49
Khaytsus	Go figure	23:49
Khaytsus	DAMN work cache.. Just gave me a scare, I thought it was broke again	23:50
@jamestolley	anyone have an idea how I might change the background color on locked assets?	23:59
@preaction	in the asset manager i hope?	23:59
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@jamestolley	I don't think so... I think it's to show up on each page, if the thing is locked... it looked hairy to me..	00:00
@preaction	it might mean when admin mode is on, notice the grey bar above each asset on the page? that's encased in a div. you should be able to edit the template to change the background color of that div	00:04
@preaction	it doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but whatevz	00:04
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@jamestolley	... is this your understanding as well ? That these are the places, and nowhere in the code, where these background-colors need to be edited (to be dynamiuc, of course)	01:42
@jamestolley	oops!	01:42
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+perlDreamer	rizen: If WebGUI wins the community choice award, are you coming out to Portland to accept it?	01:43
nuba	sourceforge's community awards are great to raise awareness about a given software	01:45
nuba	im crossing my fingers for webgui	01:45
+perlDreamer	I'll wear my supply of WebGUI T-shirts to the conference.	01:46
nuba	i can see a ultramegaboost in the community size if that happens	01:46
nuba	cause that means appearing in all sorts of medias	01:48
* perlDreamer hopes for more testing whackos		01:48
nuba	in all sorts of places	01:48
+perlDreamer	we need to bootstrap the automated browser testing of WebGUI	01:48
nuba	perlDreamer: was it you who i've talked with about koala ?	01:49
+perlDreamer	Yes.	01:49
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nuba	in a broader sense, generally speaking, programs which have a GUI could have as well means to report their GUI's features and resources so that they could be programmed. a specific instance of this would be the browser reporting all "hotspots" of a html document being rendered, be it html, embedded plugins, etc.	01:55
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+perlDreamer	kind of makes you wonder if that's already been done, automatic GUI testing, rather than the subset of automated browser testing.	01:56
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nuba	if you think about koala, its just at the browser level, just at the html	01:56
nuba	i wonder when we would see something of which koala would be a specialization	01:57
+perlDreamer	It's more than HTML, because it's automating clicks and other operations, isn't it?	01:57
nuba	yes	01:59
nuba	but i bet it wont support clicking on a embedded flash in a page	01:59
nuba	or java applets	02:00
nuba	etc.	02:00
nuba	i used to do lots of automation with this tool long ago http://www.networkautomation.com/automate/interface.htm	02:00
nuba	but that was more like the usual recorded macros thing	02:00
@rizen	stupid irc client	02:09
Radix__	perlDreamer: koala could work on IE as well if it worked well with IETab	02:17
+perlDreamer	What's IETab? Does it read and interpret FireFox extensions?	02:23
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+Radix-wrk	preaction: http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/09/openmoko-neo-1973-and-advanced-dev-kit-finally-for-sale/	05:06
@preaction	damnit damnit damnit	05:07
@preaction	you'll never guess what i just bought...	05:07
+Radix-wrk	heh	05:08
+Radix-wrk	What?	05:08
+Radix-wrk	the openmoko website is dead anyway.. you'd never get an order in :)	05:08
@preaction	samsung upstage	05:08
@preaction	i've got a thirty-day grace period	05:09
@preaction	but it's the only phone i've found that supports bluetooth DUN, and is a half-way decent mp3 player	05:09
* Radix-wrk googles.		05:09
+Radix-wrk	looks chunky	05:09
@preaction	how so? this thing is tiny	05:10
+Radix-wrk	3.5mm jack - that's good	05:10
@preaction	3.5cm by 9cm by .6cm about	05:10
+Radix-wrk	Oh.. sorry.. with the battery wallet	05:10
@preaction	yeah, that's a little bigger	05:11
+Radix-wrk	Okay.. so it's two sided with a button switching between them?	05:11
@preaction	yup	05:11
@preaction	only slightly annoying	05:11
+Radix-wrk	candy bar design.. hmm.. looks nice enough	05:12
+Radix-wrk	Dunno about samsung tho	05:13
+Radix-wrk	How easy is it to connect to your pc and get files on/off it?	05:13
@preaction	it's decently easy, the samsung drivers appear to support everything standard windows	05:14
@preaction	haven't tried OSX yet	05:14
+Radix-wrk	cool	05:14
@preaction	plus they have a not-quite-intuitive music syncing program (not as good as itunes by a long chalk)	05:14
+Radix-wrk	Never used a samsung phone myself.. but I know my mum's LG syncing software is diabolical	05:14
+Radix-wrk	every company does it differently :)	05:15
@preaction	yeah, it'd be best if they all just decided to support the One Standard (the USB file sync and/or bluetooth file sync)	05:15
+Radix-wrk	All should have mini usb connectors imho :)	05:16
@preaction	haven't figured out if it supports bluetooth A2DP yet, there's another phone at spring that does, but it's as big as my old phone (a fracking brick)	05:16
nuba	why isn't webgui listed here: http://freenode.net/primary_groups.shtml ?	05:18
+Radix-wrk	yeah, a2dp is nice, though I ended up not using my stereo bluetooth headset as much as I'd thought I would so sold it to a friend	05:18
nuba	err, #webgui	05:18
nuba	rizen: ?	05:18
@rizen	yes nuba	05:19
nuba	why isn't webgui listed here: http://freenode.net/primary_groups.shtml ?	05:19
@preaction	i want a2dp so i can get a bluetooth enabled head unit for my car, then my awesome will be complete	05:19
nuba	im just curious, not whining..	05:19
@rizen	that's preactions job	05:20
@rizen	he's in charge of irc	05:20
nuba	it seems they can be contacted at web@freenode.net for comments on that page	05:21
@preaction	i'd have to have vrby or you do all the paperwork, they want a contact address / phone number before they'll give out stuff like that if i remember correctly	05:22
nuba	i'd comment that "webgui is missing" :)	05:22
@preaction	they're verified by phone it seems, if i were to fill out a group contact form	05:23
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nuba	here's the reply from web@freenode.net re: link to webgui missing on freenode's website: http://sial.org/pbot/26170	10:24
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SDuensin	Good morning!	16:06
@rizen	Nooooooooooooooo!	17:01
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perlmonkey2	rizen: I've got bad news and worse news. The bad news if I haven't started. The worse news is my project milestone has been pushed back to the middle of next week. So I won't start having, what normal people call, downtime until the middle of next week where I can start on the new survey system. Yes, I am a luser.	17:15
@rizen	that's horrible and terrible news	17:16
perlmonkey2	7.4 is released on the 20th, right?	17:21
@rizen	yes	17:47
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perlmonkey2	Does WebGUI have any way of accepting/managing payments?	20:57
@preaction	the Commerce module, currently "beta"	20:59
@preaction	you can build plugins for payment gateways, currently comes with an Itransact gateway	20:59
@preaction	and i believe there's a community-contributed Paypal one, but don't quote me on that	21:00
@preaction	however, from what i hear Commerce is being completely re-written for 8.0, and done right	21:00
perlmonkey2	8.0? When is 8.0 coming out?	21:03
@preaction	probably quite a while from now	21:08
@preaction	we've gone from 7.1 to 7.4 in the last 10 months of my tenure here, so i'd assume late next year at the very earliest, but that's just idle speculation	21:09
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Khaytsus	Goes fairly fast.. I missed about 12 updates in 3 months it seemeed when I last updated.	21:26
Khaytsus	Ad I think I am behind again :)	21:29
Khaytsus	Yep, one release.. But no biggie, I'll wait. It upgradesnicely anyway.	21:39
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--- Day changed Wed Jul 11 2007
perlmonkey2	I don't want this to sound like a criticism, because it is an honest question, but why does WebGUI need to be installed in the root directory (I've installed it elsewhere, but I had to change hard coded paths in code).	01:34
+perlDreamer	it's just the convention	01:35
@preaction	it's easier to manage. it'd be possible to make the directory configurable, but nobody's done it yet (and i don't know if JT would authorize it)	01:35
perlmonkey2	Good, I like it. I'm documenting my app for delievery, and I'm looking for reasons as to why I force them into installing it in the root directory.	01:36
perlmonkey2	And since I'm already being a nusance, can someone point me at the svn URL? I need to grab the latest.	01:37
+perlDreamer	latest, like 7.4 or latest version of 7.3?	01:38
+perlDreamer	I'm pretty sure it's on the wiki	01:38
perlmonkey2	Okay, I'll check there, thanks.	01:38
+perlDreamer	that has the SVN URL, which is HEAD, which is 7.4	01:39
+perlDreamer	a copy of 7.3 would be found in https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.3	01:40
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: Cool thanks. But if I'm going to try to write something for 7.4 release, shouldn't I be using the 7.4 code base?	01:41
+perlDreamer	yes, but it isn't stable	01:41
+perlDreamer	use at your own risk	01:41
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: Unless someone is working on a new survey system that happens to use my test namespace, I should be fine :)	01:43
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+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-releases-and-svn-revision-numbers	01:47
+perlDreamer	Anyone know why the table feature is disabled in the Wiki?	01:48
@preaction	probably because it's just using the Post Rich Editor, which has tables disabled	01:50
@preaction	you could configure it differently, of course	01:51
+perlDreamer	or you could flip into HTML mode and enter it directly, too ;)	01:51
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@preaction	should admins be automatically in the Visitors group?	03:46
+Radix-wrk	aren't admins by definition in every group	03:50
@preaction	yes, but visitors group is only visitors, no?	03:54
@preaction	i mean, in the code, there doesn't seem to be an automatic admins <-> visitors relationship	03:54
+Radix-wrk	Hmm.. visitors may be the exception really.. and kinda makes sense	03:56
+Radix-wrk	there's probably a fair bit of "if not visitor" code around	03:57
@preaction	exactly	03:59
@preaction	but if not visitor = registered user	03:59
@preaction	that's probably better to do	03:59
@preaction	unf, better	04:02
@preaction	fixed that bug	04:02
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+crythia1	heya	04:41
+Radix-wrk	howdy stranger	04:42
+crythia1	images as assets/attachments?	04:42
+Radix-wrk	yes?	04:43
+crythia1	has a concensus been made?	04:43
+Radix-wrk	I must have missed the discussion - not sure what you're talking about :)	04:44
+crythia1	dev	04:44
+crythia1	dev list thing	04:44
+Radix-wrk	Ahh.. I see the thread	04:46
+Radix-wrk	I'm with the asset crowd	04:46
@preaction	crythia1: the discussion is the dev list, this is more quick one-on-one. for long-term project goals and stuff that needs all the community involved, that's the dev list	04:46
@preaction	reply so JT knows what the community wants	04:46
+Radix-wrk	I still want images inserted into through the html editor to link to the asset, not the image too.	04:47
+Radix-wrk	Was just thinking of adding that as an RFE again	04:47
@preaction	i'm more towards storing JSON objects in the database with more information about attachments	04:47
+crythia1	well, yeah i just wanted to know if anything was hashed out here	04:47
+crythia1	why can't things be hybrids?	04:49
+crythia1	hee	04:49
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+crythia1	they're attached but they can be referenced either as an attachment or asset, depending what you want to do with them.	04:50
+crythia1	meh	04:54
+crythia1	ttfn	04:54
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* Radix-wrk adds a new RFE and waits for JT to say he hates it.		05:22
* diakopter says JT hates it, for him.		05:31
diakopter	(j/k; I haven't even looked at the rfe)	05:31
perlmonkey2	Is there a standard object for use to communicate with Ajaxified pages?	05:37
@preaction	nope, unless you want httpproxy	05:40
perlmonkey2	Or would you just use the standard www_ calls and have the ajax handle the results?	05:40
perlmonkey2	Which probably means a framework of objects on the ajax side shoudl be developed with YUI.	05:41
@preaction	that's what i do, usually i call them www_ajax*	05:41
perlmonkey2	preaction: cool.	05:41
@preaction	and that's underway too, in www/extras/yui-webgui	05:41
perlmonkey2	you guys think of everything :)	05:41
@preaction	not everything, but a lot	05:42
Khaytsus	I should try the project management and wiki.. I haven't yet	06:12
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* Radix-wrk just uploaded a Lightbox2 webgui package to webgui.org for anyone interested.		06:20
Khaytsus	What would that be?	06:24
Khaytsus	Project Management is a little klunky, but usable mostly	06:26
@preaction	yeah, that one needs to be redone	06:26
+Radix-wrk	http://www.webgui.org/user_contributions/user_contributions/packages/lightbox2-template-package	06:27
+Radix-wrk	Just added a link to my test page showing examples of it's use	06:27
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Khaytsus	That's pretty cool	06:29
Khaytsus	I have been meaning to put a limited photo album in mine, but have yet to do it	06:29
+Radix-wrk	yeah, that's what I thought, so I got it to work in webgui :)	06:30
Khaytsus	heh	06:30
Khaytsus	So you're a webgui consultant? Interesting.	06:30
+Radix-wrk	yeah, just starting it up as a business really.	06:31
+Radix-wrk	just a sideline afterhours really	06:31
Khaytsus	ah, gotcha.. WebGUI is a good platform. I use about 2% of it I think ;-)	06:32
Khaytsus	Man I know I'm a complete tard, but I'm not even sure how to start a WIki page.. Guess I'll try editing the content with some standard wiki stuff and see what happens..	06:33
+Radix-wrk	you have to search for something before it'll let you add new	06:37
Khaytsus	oh, doh.. That's a shortcut to it in TWiki, didn't think about that.	06:38
Khaytsus	I always make a WikiWord so it's not orphaned	06:38
Khaytsus	That's a little unclear...	06:38
+Radix-wrk	I happen to agree :)	06:39
Khaytsus	And the WikiWord links are... odd	06:42
Khaytsus	ThisWord, the link is Word	06:42
Khaytsus	I'll have to try that template tommorrow, neat stuff	06:47
Khaytsus	Hey, that was easy ;-)	06:56
Khaytsus	I need to resize the images, ahem :)	06:56
Khaytsus	Be nice if I could figure out how to display all the images directly, rather than in an album below the main page.	07:00
Khaytsus	I must be missing something :)	07:01
+Radix-wrk	Hmm.. not sure how you'd do that, but it might be possible	07:07
+Radix-wrk	the images are attached to a thread - and essentially you're viewing a thread when you click on an album	07:07
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@preaction	would it be prudent for a feature to make links? i mean everything else can be handled by the HTML editor, but perhaps let [[WikiWord]] be a wiki link?	07:27
@preaction	that would probably make things a lot better for the wiki	07:27
@preaction	that and adding Category pages	07:27
@preaction	or Tag pages	07:27
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@rizen	tags are in	08:14
@rizen	added it to 7.4	08:14
@rizen	as far as making links, i'd prefer that stuff only gets automagically linked or hand linked. i don't like wikis that link to pages that don't exist	08:15
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Khaytsus	I personally prefer to make preferences to WikiWords that I plan on defining, then defining them. Yes, I doo hate when those WikiWords don't get defined, but at least the template is there.	13:39
Khaytsus	That's always how I create pages in TWiki myself; fill in content and WikiWords as I go along, then go in and fill in each of the WikiWords content.	13:40
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SDuensin	Greetings!	15:44
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jdan	Hi everybody. I'm new to WebGUI 7, but very familiar with WebGUI 5. I am looking form document which describe how to testing new Perl modules. The problem is that I have to restart Apache every time I change source. Could someone point me any solution how to set my environment?	17:22
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Radix__	jdan: is this what you're looking for? http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/configure-the-wre-for-developers	17:46
Radix__	http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/stop--start/6 - this topic has more info as well on how to configure Apache2::Reload	17:48
jdan	Radix__: Almost. I don't use WRE. So I am trying configure my Apache2 to work with Apache2::Reload. Unfortunately I don't know how to set WebGUI path to @INC in config	17:49
Radix__	Check out that second topic then	17:50
Radix__	IMHO if you're not using the WRE then you're shooting yourself in the foot from the get-go ;)	17:50
Radix__	Good luck! :)	17:51
* Radix__ wanders off to bed.		17:51
jdan	ok, I will install WRE on my Debian.	17:52
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jdan	Radix__: I found solution. I added "PerlSwitches -Ipath-to-webgui_lib" and Apache2 reload modules if it is changed	18:05
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+perlDreamer	I need a cross platform check on a test that's failing.	21:17
+perlDreamer	Does anyone have 5 minutes to run a test for me on their system?	21:17
@rizen	i have osx ppc, will that work?	21:21
+perlDreamer	sure.	21:21
@rizen	and i only have 7.4 set up right now...can i use that?	21:21
+perlDreamer	Yes.	21:21
@rizen	ok then	21:21
@rizen	what do you need?	21:21
+perlDreamer	export WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/rizens.conf	21:22
@rizen	done	21:22
+perlDreamer	cd /data/WebGUI/t	21:22
+perlDreamer	perl Macro/FetchMimeType.t	21:22
@rizen	should i update to latest?	21:22
@rizen	i'm probably a few hours behind	21:22
+perlDreamer	It won't matter	21:22
@rizen	k	21:22
+perlDreamer	Does the test pass?	21:23
@rizen	running	21:23
@rizen	no	21:23
@rizen	1..7	21:23
@rizen	ok 1 - use WebGUI::Macro::FetchMimeType;	21:23
@rizen	ok 2 - gif	21:23
@rizen	ok 3 - jpeg	21:23
@rizen	not ok 4 - plain text	21:23
@rizen	# Failed test 'plain text'	21:23
@rizen	# in Macro/FetchMimeType.t at line 73.	21:23
@rizen	# got: 'application/octet-stream'	21:23
@rizen	# expected: 'text/plain'	21:23
@rizen	ok 5 - octet-stream for unknown type	21:23
@rizen	ok 6 - Null path returns application/octet-stream	21:23
@rizen	ok 7 - Undef path returns undef	21:23
@rizen	# Looks like you failed 1 test of 7.	21:23
+perlDreamer	weird	21:23
+perlDreamer	It looks like javascript files are handled differently than they have been in the past.	21:24
+perlDreamer	I'll update the test.	21:24
+perlDreamer	The test suite caught two fatal bugs today, so now I'm doing other triage.	21:25
@rizen	cool	21:26
+perlDreamer	13788 tests run, all clean	21:42
+perlDreamer	I'll run the CODE_COP tests later, too	21:42
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--- Day changed Thu Jul 12 2007
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Khaytsus	Hmmmm, how does one convert an article into a thread? I was thinking I saw a way to do that once. I have a handful of articles that I now want to put into a collaboration system (Topics template0	01:40
Khaytsus	Copy and paste I suppose... I tried just moving them into the Collaboration System under Manage, but that didn't do much :)	01:40
@rizen	copy and paste the content	01:40
Khaytsus	k, I figured that was gonna be the asnwer.	01:40
@rizen	if it were more than a handful, it may be useful to write a program to do it	01:41
@rizen	but in this case..not really	01:41
Khaytsus	Nah, not too many	01:41
Khaytsus	Just figured I might be missing something	01:42
Khaytsus	Thanks :)	01:42
-!- Radix__ is now known as Radix_		02:11
-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.20 \| WRE 0.7.2 ] - Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc		02:11
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+Radix_	preaction: what's with the multiple personalities? :) ie. DBell and preaction on the forums	02:21
@preaction	apparently "alias" isn't good enough for some parts of WebGUI	02:23
@preaction	i imagine i'll go into the db and change my username someday	02:23
+Radix_	heh	02:23
+Radix_	Alias works - but each thread post must embed the name used or something	02:25
+Radix_	http://www.webgui.org/install/upgrade_help/installing-webgui-7_3_19-problem/5#idALwBgIblIekyP2AiAldqOA	02:25
+Radix_	your first reply is listed as DBell, then the second is preaction	02:25
+Radix_	same userid each time tho	02:25
@preaction	yeah, between there i changed my alias	02:25
@preaction	(the original alias defaults to username)	02:26
+Radix_	do you know if a 7.3.21 is planned at all?	02:30
@preaction	i think it is, i think there'll be one more stable release before 7.4	02:32
+Radix_	if you get a chance, could you roll this one line change into it? - http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/left-admin-bar-overlap-problem	02:32
@preaction	but 7.4 was pushed back, so there might be another	02:32
+Radix_	it was posted a while back, but I don't think anyone noticed	02:33
@preaction	it was just a damned specificity problem?	02:33
+Radix_	just z-index wasn't set for the right object	02:33
+Radix_	or rather was set in wrong css tag	02:33
@preaction	.slidePanel and #slidePanel refer to the same thing (in theory), but classes are "less specific" than IDs, which assigns them less weight to the cascade, so z-index: 100; becomes more important	02:34
@preaction	i'll put this on my to-do list	02:34
+Radix_	no, .slidepanel is included only if class="slidepanel", #slidepanel is only included if id="slidepanel"	02:35
+Radix_	cheers anyway	02:36
* Radix_ heads off to work.		02:38
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@rizen	radix, yes there will be a 7.3.21 release	03:08
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perlmonkey2	rizen: (Concerning the survey) Since a lot of survey's are eventually exported either into number crunchers like SPSS, or to reporting applications, could we add a way to assign user defined variable names to each question, and then an export option which would transpose the results with the columns labeled with the user defined variable names?	03:56
@rizen	can you do it in such a way that doesn't make the export system difficult to use?	03:57
+Radix-wrk	Why not just use webgui to display the results?	03:57
@rizen	cuz a lot of people just want to export to a spreadsheet or something	03:57
perlmonkey2	rizen: definetly, I'd make the user defined variable names optional and just another column in the question table, not used until the user exports as TAB TRANSPOSED or something.	03:58
@rizen	i'm all for making the system better	03:59
@rizen	so sure	03:59
perlmonkey2	groovy	03:59
perlmonkey2	by-the-by, the new (I guess it is new) youtube vid is pretty slick. Nice graphics and voice over.	04:00
@rizen	it's actually been on our site for 6 months	04:02
@rizen	but the reorg of our site brought it front and center	04:02
@rizen	thanks	04:02
perlmonkey2	I usually look at your site from work where I'm running 64 bit fedora ie no Flash.	04:02
+Radix-wrk	imho it's not wow enough - it's just a powerpoint slide with a voiceover	04:03
perlmonkey2	For a FOSS project it's pretty frik'n major.	04:03
+Radix-wrk	that said, it's better than one I could make :)	04:03
@rizen	we're talking about a business productivity tool here...how wow can you get?	04:04
@rizen	it's not like we're doing 3d animation, or cutting off people's heads	04:04
@rizen	=)	04:05
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perlmonkey2	Okay, I'm an idiot, and not afraid to admit it. On my fresh install of F7, I'm trying to creating a WebGUI instance from the svn latest. But I'm missing jpg's and the admin bar won't appear. I'm positive this has to do with permissions, but I've given apache the golden key to everything.	04:44
perlmonkey2	Is someone working on the workflow?	05:06
perlmonkey2	"Root cause: Unknown column 'mode' in 'where clause'"	05:06
@rizen	yes i made some changes to workflow	05:08
@rizen	you need to run the upgrade	05:08
perlmonkey2	running the upgrade didn't work. "NO UPGRADES NECESSARY". Is there a way to force it?	05:16
@rizen	what version is your database?	05:17
perlmonkey2	crap	05:17
@rizen	this is just a dev instance right?	05:17
perlmonkey2	no, the database should be the latest.	05:17
perlmonkey2	correct	05:17
@rizen	ok then do this	05:17
perlmonkey2	I recreated the database after svn update	05:17
@rizen	mysql -e "drop database dbname; create database dbname"	05:18
@rizen	mysql dbname < /data/WebGUI/docs/previousVersion.sql	05:18
@rizen	cd /data/WebGUI/sbin	05:18
@rizen	perl upgrade.pl	05:18
perlmonkey2	ic....cool, thanks.	05:18
@rizen	if you do that, then you'll be all good	05:18
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@rizen	i usually create a script to do that among other things	05:19
@rizen	cuz i screw up my database a lot while developing	05:19
@rizen	you may want to consider making one too	05:19
perlmonkey2	Good idea, I'll do that.	05:19
@rizen	if you want, i can give you my script	05:20
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perlmonkey2	That would be even better.	05:21
@rizen	http://rafb.net/p/tL6yRZ40.html	05:25
perlmonkey2	Thanks	05:26
@rizen	np	05:26
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Leon	any one here ?	10:01
+Radix-wrk	Yup	10:03
Leon	is this a help channel or what ? hehe	10:03
+Radix-wrk	To a certain extent.. if we can help anyway :)	10:03
Leon	hehe...	10:03
Leon	listen then.. maybe you can	10:03
Leon	i installed webgui 7.3.19 yest..	10:03
Leon	but having a problem with images, and can't get the idea of what the problem can be as i tried all permisions..	10:04
Leon	www.ecwdp.com	10:04
+Radix-wrk	Checked your webgui logs?	10:04
Leon	can it be a problem with spectre ?	10:05
+Radix-wrk	perlbot paste	10:05
perlbot	Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.	10:05
+Radix-wrk	paste a copy of your webgui.log in using one of those sites and let me know the url you get.	10:06
+Radix-wrk	I reckon your permissions are setup wrong though at a guess	10:06
+Radix-wrk	you have to ensure that the entire uploads folder is chown to nobody:nobody	10:07
Leon	http://sial.org/pbot/26233	10:07
Leon	yep nobody.nobody	10:07
+Radix-wrk	and what is apache set to run under?	10:08
+Radix-wrk	most distro's use nobody, but perhaps it's using something different?	10:08
+Radix-wrk	www or something maybe	10:08
Leon	i setted up apache to run as nobody.nobody	10:08
Leon	# User/Group: The name (or #number) of the user/group to run httpd as.	10:09
Leon	# It is usually good practice to create a dedicated user and group for	10:09
Leon	# running httpd, as with most system services.	10:09
Leon	#	10:09
Leon	User nobody	10:09
Leon	Group nobody	10:09
Leon	</IfModule>	10:09
Leon	i have 2 apaches running on the same machine..	10:10
+Radix-wrk	and what are the permissions on that file/dir?	10:10
Leon	apache1 and apache2	10:10
+Radix-wrk	on the /home/WebGUI/www/ one	10:10
Leon	tried with 600, 666, 755, 775	10:10
+Radix-wrk	Hmm.. wierd	10:10
Leon	yeah i can't get the idea of what the problem is :/	10:11
Leon	can it be a problem with spectre ?	10:11
+Radix-wrk	no, doesn't look like it's getting that far	10:11
+Radix-wrk	WebGUI is trying to simply store the files on the disk, and it's failing to create the directories at all	10:11
+Radix-wrk	what distro are you using?	10:12
Leon	red hat enterprise 4	10:12
+Radix-wrk	and where did you get the apache from? yum or the cd itself?	10:12
Leon	and apache 2.2.4	10:12
Leon	from apache's website	10:13
+Radix-wrk	Oh.. so you compiled it yourself?	10:13
Leon	yep	10:13
+Radix-wrk	Hmm..	10:13
+Radix-wrk	Are you sure it's using the apache.conf that you think it is?	10:13
Leon	the httpd.conf you mean ?	10:14
+Radix-wrk	yeah	10:14
Leon	yeah apache1 and apache2 are running on different ip's	10:14
+Radix-wrk	using two separate copies of apache?	10:14
Leon	yes	10:15
Leon	cpanel only works with apache1 atm	10:15
+Radix-wrk	could the webgui apache be using the httpd.conf from the other apache setup?	10:15
Leon	no i don't think so..	10:16
Leon	because there isn't the setup of mod_perl on the apache1	10:17
Leon	and i have another server with same setup... i have webgui 5.2.12 on it	10:17
Leon	it works fine	10:17
+Radix-wrk	Hmm...	10:18
+Radix-wrk	When you dumped the module config before from your httpd.conf - you said "<Leon> </IfModule>" at the end	10:18
+Radix-wrk	what module was that?	10:19
Leon	aha	10:19
Leon	<IfModule !mpm_netware_module>	10:19
+Radix-wrk	err..	10:20
Leon	apache kemm with it..	10:20
+Radix-wrk	user and group shouldn't need to be defined inside a ifmodule tag	10:20
Leon	*came	10:20
Leon	i tried to make them outside the tag	10:21
Leon	but the start	10:21
Leon	*didn't	10:21
* Radix-wrk applies his language parser to the above few lines and tries to make head or tail of its meaning.		10:23
Leon	lol	10:23
Leon	i tried defining the user and group outside the ifmodule tag..	10:24
Leon	but then apache didn't start	10:24
+Radix-wrk	Hmm.. that's odd	10:24
+Radix-wrk	Any particular reason why you didn't just use the wre?	10:24
Leon	hmm no i don't think so..	10:25
Leon	wre if i have perl already installed it will skip it or ?	10:25
+Radix-wrk	the WRE is complete by itself	10:25
Leon	so it won't clash with already installed?	10:26
+Radix-wrk	Good question	10:26
Leon	hehe	10:26
+Radix-wrk	ideally no, though I know the wre mysql will be overridden if you already have one	10:27
+Radix-wrk	it comes with a compiled and optimised apache/modperl/modproxy setup	10:27
+Radix-wrk	and some very nifty scripts for adding sites, etc	10:27
Leon	hmm..	10:27
+Radix-wrk	it's also the recommended way of installing Webgui	10:27
+Radix-wrk	WebGUI relies on a lot of perl scripts, and the ones in cpan aren't always the best ones to use	10:28
Leon	hehe.. i installed the 5.2.12 without wre and thought 7.3.19 would be something simimalr	10:28
Leon	what was that of mysql thing ?	10:28
+Radix-wrk	yeah, the 5.x series was a lot easier to install, webgui has grown heaps since then, but also added a lot more perl modules	10:29
+Radix-wrk	the WRE makes all that so much easier to manage	10:29
Leon	i'll try it off..	10:29
Leon	it won't earase my databases right ?	10:29
+Radix-wrk	yikes, I should hope not :)	10:30
Leon	i hope so..	10:30
Leon	lol	10:30
+Radix-wrk	that said, always make a backup!	10:30
Leon	i'll try it off..	10:31
Leon	thanks for your help :)	10:31
+Radix-wrk	np	10:31
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Leon	any one can help ?	11:58
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Khaytsus	I haven't tried the WRE, as I didn't want to dedicate the whole server to webgui. I have other cgi's, php, etc, running on the box. Perhaps there's a way to coexist or have the WRE use the existing httpd.	14:07
Khaytsus	(Just a statement... :)	14:07
Khaytsus	I wonder if 7.x has gotten more difficul to install.. 6.8 wasn't too bad, but it took a heck of a lot of compiling modules (some of which would compile on their own, some I had to compile... which was odd)	14:08
pjesi	Khaytsus: they are coexisting over here	14:59
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SDuensin	Good morning.	15:36
Khaytsus	pjesi: I'll have to try it, I read it as they wouldn't.	15:53
pjesi	my setup is basically WRE + normal http	16:09
pjesi	I use the mod_proxy in the WRE to serve requests to the regualr http	16:09
pjesi	mod_proxy on 80, mod_perl on 81, and then the distro http with whatever php and stuff on other port	16:10
jdan	Hey, how $self->session->form->process works? I can't found 'process' subroutine. I have to view it to learn how it works.	16:28
jdan	Definitely I don't know how WebGUI::Form inherit process subroutine	16:31
pjesi	SDuensin: you in #eclipse? :P	16:43
SDuensin	Yep. I'm losing a battle with it and seriously need help.	16:45
pjesi	sorry I have not had that usecase for it	16:48
SDuensin	I have, and it's a serious issue. :-(	16:55
pjesi	what are you using eclipse for?	16:59
SDuensin	My ZK Desktop project.	17:00
pjesi	are you using Europa?	17:01
SDuensin	Yea	17:01
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jdan	Sorry for my foolish question. I mistaked WebGUI::Form with WebGUI::Session::Form. Ech	17:17
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wenzu	anyone here ?	18:56
@preaction	yes'm	18:57
wenzu	what does the commit changes does in webgui ?	18:57
wenzu	i'm used with old webgui and can't figure out how to change style in the new one	18:57
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@preaction	when you change an asset, you create a new Revision of that asset. that revision is marked as "pending" until it's committed (when it's marked as "approved")	18:58
@preaction	the latest version of an approved asset is the one that appears, unless you have your own pending version (are working under your own version tag)	18:59
wenzu	couse before i created my own style... done it in webgui and everything.. and i was seeing it logged in.. when i logged out everything was gone..	19:00
@preaction	because you did not commit your version tag	19:00
wenzu	so.. i'll create a version tag..	19:01
wenzu	do everything, and then commit ?	19:01
@preaction	they're created automatically	19:01
wenzu	and what things come locked ?	19:02
wenzu	*why	19:02
@preaction	because they're being edited under a different version tag	19:03
wenzu	ah ic	19:03
@preaction	(incidentally, this and more is all explained in the Content Manager's Guide from Plain Black)	19:03
wenzu	so my main problem are the version tags	19:03
wenzu	hehe	19:03
wenzu	ah shi...	19:04
wenzu	i was only looking at webgui.org	19:04
@preaction	i'm an employee at plainblack, gotta push the product (especially when it answers so many questions)	19:06
wenzu	didn't release how much webgui changed from my old 5.1.12	19:07
wenzu	totally different	19:07
@rizen	once you get used to it, i think you'll find that it may be totally different, but it's totally better	19:08
@preaction	yeah, hopefully people start coming out from the 5.x/6.x rock	19:08
wenzu	i'll just press commit my changes and thats all ?	19:13
@preaction	the comment page will pop up and request you insert a comment, but that's optional, and then "save" and then spectre will do the commit, usually in a few seconds	19:14
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wenzu	sorry i'm going to annoy you...	19:18
wenzu	i created a folder.. commited changes.. and folder isn't there	19:19
@rizen	is this on a custom server or on demo.webgui.org?	19:20
wenzu	custom	19:20
@rizen	are you sure you have spectre set up correctly?	19:20
@rizen	log in to your server	19:20
@rizen	and type	19:20
@rizen	cd /data/WebGUI/sbin	19:20
wenzu	aha	19:20
@rizen	perl spectre.pl --test	19:20
@rizen	spectre is the workflow governor	19:21
@rizen	you can't commit changes without it	19:21
wenzu	ah shit	19:21
wenzu	ERROR: Spectre cannot communicate with WebGUI. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreSubnets setting in this config file:	19:21
@rizen	ding - we have a winner	19:22
@rizen	=)	19:22
wenzu	lol	19:22
wenzu	this webgui is making me mad	19:23
@rizen	don't be mad	19:23
@rizen	you have to have some faith...once you get it up and running, you're going to love 7.x	19:23
@rizen	and not know how you ever even survived with 5.x	19:23
wenzu	hehe	19:23
@rizen	i quite literally hear that all the time	19:24
@rizen	people always hate 7 if they've used 5	19:24
@rizen	but then they get used to it	19:24
@rizen	and can't imagine how they ever used 5	19:24
wenzu	5 is nice and easy :P	19:24
@rizen	you say that now	19:24
@rizen	i'll talk to you at the beginning of august	19:25
@rizen	after you've been using 7 for a bit	19:25
wenzu	and easy too install too :P	19:25
@rizen	so is webgui 7	19:25
@rizen	if you do it following the instructions	19:25
@rizen	meaning use the WRE	19:25
wenzu	i did	19:25
wenzu	but now i got this error in spectre	19:25
@rizen	did you answer the question about subnets correctly when you installed the WRE?	19:26
wenzu	i guess yes	19:27
@rizen	edit your webgui config	19:27
wenzu	i can't see the subnet setting in spectre.conf :/	19:27
@rizen	look for spectreSubnets	19:27
@rizen	it's not in there it's in the webgui config	19:27
@rizen	make sure it looks like	19:28
wenzu	ah this is strange... i only have WebGUI.conf.original	19:28
SDuensin	wenzu - I was a huge fan of 5.x and never went to 6. After 7 "clicks" with you, 5 looks downright primitive. It's fantastic.	19:28
SDuensin	(Hi rizen)	19:28
@rizen	"spectreSubnets" : ["127.0.0.1/32", "1.1.1.1/32"],	19:28
@rizen	where 1.1.1.1 is replaced with your server's IP	19:28
@rizen	howdy SD	19:29
wenzu	i only have WebGUI.conf.original	19:29
wenzu	strange eh ?	19:29
@rizen	you should also have	19:29
@rizen	www.yoursite.com.conf	19:29
@rizen	that's your webgui config	19:29
wenzu	a ok	19:29
SDuensin	rizen - Totally off topic, but I shipped a HUGE update to the ZK Desktop. The new super-duper Wonder Grid CRUD tool is in!	19:30
@rizen	ZK Desktop is only for doobie smokers and crank yankers	19:30
@rizen	WebGUI Desktop is where it's at	19:30
@rizen	=)	19:30
@rizen	thanks for the heads up SD, i'll have to get a download	19:31
SDuensin	Yea, and on that front, I did some reading about YUI + EXT today. Wow does that produce some awesome looking UIs.	19:31
@rizen	yeah YUI and Ext are amazing, they just aren't neat autogen frameworks like ZK is	19:32
@rizen	they have the super flexible, powerful, and well documented API's	19:32
@rizen	but it would be nice if they also had some prebuilt power tools like zk	19:33
@rizen	i suppose then	19:33
@rizen	they couldn't be server side neutral though	19:33
@rizen	which is why they don't do it	19:33
SDuensin	Like I said before, my whole reason for ZK was the server-side stuff. It's great not having to deal with the browser.	19:33
SDuensin	Yup.	19:33
wenzu	its ok now..	19:34
wenzu	thanks rizen :)	19:34
wenzu	one other think..	19:34
wenzu	can i edit something so that when i create a new site its config will be with the right subnet ?	19:35
@rizen	yes	19:36
@rizen	it's /data/wre/var/hoster.arg.cache	19:37
@rizen	if you make it look like this then you'll be good:	19:37
@rizen	spectreSubnets:10.0.0.101/32, \	19:37
@rizen	127.0.0.1/32	19:37
wenzu	k fixed :)	19:37
wenzu	ur the king of the swing	19:38
@rizen	use 7 for a month, then i dare you to tell me you still like 5 better than 7	19:38
wenzu	hehe	19:39
@rizen	i say there's a 95% chance you won't be able to do it	19:39
wenzu	i hope so..	19:39
wenzu	and is the adminbar a bit bugged or is mine a bit fu.... ?	19:39
SDuensin	99% :-)	19:39
wenzu	ah i think the "bug" was the spectre lol	19:40
wenzu	ok this is far better now working fine :)	19:41
wenzu	let me take the opportunity and ask another thing that i didn't find on 5..	19:42
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wenzu	can i make like a page in the style lets say.. on the right hand side of the website.. and it will be updateable..	19:42
wenzu	bot a template with the numbers like 5 was.. i want it in every page and updateable	19:43
wenzu	*not	19:43
SDuensin	Same thing on each page?	19:43
wenzu	yes	19:43
SDuensin	Shortcuts!	19:43
SDuensin	You can make a shortcut of an asset and paste it elsewhere on the site.	19:44
SDuensin	Or include the asset in the style with a macro.	19:44
wenzu	hmm	19:44
wenzu	i'll try that	19:44
wenzu	cheers :)	19:45
SDuensin	Enjoy!	19:45
wenzu	i'll do	19:46
wenzu	its surely faster eh	19:47
@rizen	Read the wiki about the ^AssetProxy(); macr	19:48
@rizen	macro	19:48
wenzu	thanks again :)	19:48
wenzu	very helpfull guys	19:48
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ckotil	anyone hear of cosign integration into webgui?	20:52
ckotil	its another sso solution.	20:52
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@rizen	i heard it when you said it on irc last week	21:00
@rizen	=)	21:00
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ckotil	yah, i said we were thinking about moving to cosign	21:16
ckotil	we have development cosign servers up and running.	21:17
ckotil	its going to be a breeze to switch everything to cosign, and since it has a kerberos backend. the change will not be very drastic, only a cosmetic change to our users.	21:17
ckotil	but, so far we havent figured out an elegant solution to make a pluggable authentication module for webgui.	21:18
@preaction	what's the backend? are there command-line authorization scripts? are there Perl modules for authentication or perhaps something you can use with Inline::* modules?	22:18
ckotil	its perl.	22:24
ckotil	dunno about using modules with it.	22:24
@preaction	if it's written in Perl it should be trivial to build an auth module against it (or at least not exceedingly difficult)	22:26
@preaction	this looks like C	22:30
ckotil	compiled cgi	22:32
ckotil	hrmm maybe the daemon IS c	22:32
ckotil	3001#12345# type this into your iPhones!	22:32
ckotil	'field info'	22:32
ckotil	aka debug mode	22:32
@preaction	theoretically though wouldn't you use the cosign server to actually do the auth, and only use the WebGUI::Auth::Cosign to get a username from the cosign cookie?	22:33
@preaction	so you only really need to be able to read the cookie and get a webgui userId from it	22:34
ckotil	ah.	22:34
ckotil	yeah that sounds good.	22:34
ckotil	pretty much how CAS sso works.	22:34
@preaction	unfortunately, like most code that i get to read, nobody ever documents or comments, so since i don't really know C, this is a lot of gibberish	22:34
@preaction	but it looks like a cookie named "cosign" is created with two text strings separated by a / (one called "new_cookiebuf" and another called "tv.tv_sec") <- if you find out what those two things are, you can find out who's logged in and what's happening with it	22:36
@preaction	but it also seems that cosign requires SSL	22:37
@preaction	have you ever looked at Yadis / OpenID (or LID)? i know OpenID is written in Perl and would be easy to port to WebGUI	22:39
ckotil	we have not.	22:41
ckotil	so the problem we're going to run into with cosign is that it pretty mcuh requires webgui to be behind mod_cosign.	22:42
ckotil	which will be a problem.	22:42
ckotil	and you cannot remotley check on teh cosigns cookie.	22:42
@preaction	i dunno, it seems that cosign serves central auth. there must be a remote interface for apps to verify auth	22:43
ckotil	they have these things called filters.	22:44
ckotil	which allow for remote checking of the cookies.	22:44
ckotil	but supposedly they are a bi0tch to create.	22:44
ckotil	i have a more pressing issue. i upgraded to red hat 5, and now when i try to execute perl preload.perl it tries to run perl5.5.8 rather than 5.8.8	22:45
ckotil	i ran into this when i first started using webgui, and i forgot how to fix it.	22:46
@preaction	what does ls -l /usr/bin/perl say? you might have to point /usr/bin/perl somewhere else	22:46
ckotil	./usr/bin/perl	22:46
ckotil	and perl -v shows 5.8.8	22:52
ckotil	my only guess is that APR or libapreq are majorly screwed up	22:53
@rizen	FYI: http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/webgui/perl-developer-position#lc7UqGyASnjmvbougzs8YQ	22:55
@rizen	FYI: http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/web-support-and-training-specialist	22:56
ckotil	rizen: scroll up and type that number into your iphone.	22:57
ckotil	via the phone keypad	22:57
@rizen	how do i get back out of that mode?	22:57
ckotil	home button.	22:58
ckotil	back out with the tabs.	22:58
ckotil	you're not stuck there or anything.	22:58
@rizen	cool	22:59
ckotil	ya, some witty developer can use this to triangulate your location	22:59
perlmonkey2	I can answer the Perl dev questions pretty easy, but I'm morally obligated to continue at my current place.	23:17
perlmonkey2	and '\r' are the devil.	23:19
perlmonkey2	But wouldn't it be cool to work, like as a job, for WebGUI?	23:20
perlmonkey2	document.getElementById("x").innerHTML implies x is a <div> right?	23:23
perlmonkey2	My JS is rusty.	23:23
@preaction	i'm bound by desire to keep my body parts to not help you with that one :(	23:23
perlmonkey2	discussing that probably defeats the purpose of it being on the job post, so I"ll go back to shutting up.	23:23
diakopter	perlmonkey: no, that doesn't assume x is a <div>	23:44
diakopter	perlmonkey2 I mean	23:44
@preaction	a note though: innerHTML, while supported by FF and IE (and maybe WebKit), is not W3C canon	23:49
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@rizen	preaction, shouldn't you be leaving soon?	23:53
@preaction	i've got an hour yet, yes	23:54
@preaction	if the durned bank didn't have a crisis over my ability to pay (and i didn't have to come up with an additional $750) i wouldn't be 5 hours behind today... i'm going to look like someone strung me out for a week...	23:54
perlmonkey2	1. I read up on innerhtml and while I only have exp. using it in the way I spoke, I was wrong. 2. I'm a jackarse for even talking about it, because this is a test for interviewers, and someone reading here could unfairly pass that hurdle.	23:55
ckotil	heh	23:56
--- Day changed Fri Jul 13 2007
nuba	sigh >... US Citizen, and able to pass Federal security clearance.	00:13
nuba	poor us people, non-US people :/	00:14
@rizen	poor plain black for not being able to hire non-us people	00:17
nuba	heh	00:17
nuba	you need a sister company, which then gets contracted by plainblack ;)	00:18
nuba	BlackPlain LCC	00:20
perlmonkey2	BlainPlack	00:20
nuba	PainBlack, "for you painfull coding needs!"	00:21
nuba	-l	00:21
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@rizen	i'm afraid we still couldn't hire you	00:30
@rizen	for the same reasons	00:30
@rizen	or at least you couldn't work on government projects	00:30
@rizen	which we have a lot of	00:30
ckotil	heh	00:40
ckotil	anyone know how to remove things from @INC?	00:40
ckotil	ive got soo many paths to old perl versions	00:40
@rizen	shift	00:41
@rizen	pop	00:41
@rizen	poop	00:41
ckotil	but is that permanent?	00:44
ckotil	id rather not have to do it for every perl applicatiotn.	00:44
@rizen	no	00:44
@rizen	no idea where the permanent file is for that	00:44
ckotil	well, preload.perl seems to be the only thing that complains.	00:44
@rizen	try perlmonks	00:44
ckotil	ok ill just shift it out.	00:44
ckotil	thx	00:44
@rizen	i was kidding about shift	00:45
@rizen	i don't know if that will work or not	00:45
ckotil	might.	00:45
@rizen	might	00:45
ckotil	get this. my ihone had the shittiest battery out of all the iphones ive seen. theres 6 of them in my office.	00:45
@rizen	you're just lucky i guess	00:45
ckotil	i haev a loaner from apple while mine is in the shop. its going on 3 days straight with the factory charge.	00:46
@rizen	btw...are you ready to check in those triggers?	00:46
ckotil	i want to keep this phone...	00:46
ckotil	sort of.	00:46
ckotil	half anyway	00:46
ckotil	ill get you them tonight.	00:46
ckotil	sorry for slacking.	00:48
ckotil	heading home now.	00:48
perlmonkey2	ckotil: I think you have to recompile and the consensus on #perl appears to agree.	00:51
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@khenn	diakopter: send me a PM on IM: FRANKLD75	03:01
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wenzu	why is webgui showing wrong time ?	11:31
+Radix-wrk	your user profile has a timezone setting	11:45
+Radix-wrk	if you want to change the default timezone, then change the visitor account's timezone in their profile and all new users will then get that as the default	11:46
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:25
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+perlDreamer	Is there an SQL query that will tell you the name of the database that you're working on?	19:24
@preaction	that's a good question, might want to pop over to #mysql and see if they know (because i don't)	19:25
+perlDreamer	but preaction, you're my javascript/SQL/webtech goto guy... :)	19:26
@preaction	there are limits to even my knowledge :(	19:26
+perlDreamer	how did your talk go last night?	19:26
@preaction	my greatness lies in knowing those limits	19:26
@preaction	imho, C-	19:26
@preaction	i presented the data, i was woefully under-prepared, i had half the amount of materiel i should have had	19:26
@preaction	i did feel and work with the audience better than i anticipated	19:27
@preaction	and being my first presentation like that in about 3 years has rekindled all that knowledge from before when i could actually go up in front of people and move them	19:28
@preaction	so if i start now, i should have some good presentations for the WUC	19:28
+perlDreamer	that's actually some good motivation for me to get started, too	19:28
@preaction	also, this presentation was a lot of examples / hands-on sort of things (since perl one-liners is so easy to give examples for)	19:29
@preaction	the YUI talk i'm giving i can provide examples, but the splitting webgui sites one would be unlikely (which reminds me that's still theoretical, i haven't proven it works yet), and the upgrading webgui i can't really show examples of (since it might take time i don't have to waste)	19:30
+perlDreamer	Damian Conway has some modules that mockup real time displays of code executing.	19:31
+perlDreamer	That might help	19:31
@preaction	like as it runs the code it prints out the code that's running?	19:32
+perlDreamer	Like, it just spews out whatever you want so that you don't have to worry about delays or mistakes in realtime demos	19:32
@preaction	ah, so basically faking real scripts	19:33
+perlDreamer	yup	19:33
@preaction	what is maintenance mode again? isn't it a special apache instance that runs in place of modperl while modperl is doing the upgrade tasks?	19:36
+perlDreamer	No, it throws up a splash screen and prevents db access.	19:36
+perlDreamer	Check out WebGUI.pm	19:36
+perlDreamer	precation: SELECT DATABASE()	19:41
+perlDreamer	that probably only works in MySQL, though.	19:43
@preaction	there's a lot of stuff webgui does that only works in mysql now	19:47
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@rizen	pd: if it's for the core, then it's ok if it only works in mysql	19:55
@rizen	if it's supposed to work with the Database Link, then it has to be generic	19:55
+perlDreamer	It's for a test against the DSN from the webgui config file	19:55
@rizen	for example, if it's for SQL Report	19:55
@rizen	then it has to be generic	19:55
@rizen	that can be mysql specific	19:55
+perlDreamer	The big goal is the fixing of the SQLForm privileges bug	19:57
@preaction	to prevent messing with the WebGUI database? or just to give them a stern warning that they can (and probably will) screw up their system?	19:57
@rizen	SQLForm is mysql only	19:57
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perlmonkey2	quiet here today.	21:13
SDuensin	Shhh	21:15
@preaction	it's so quiet i can't hear myself think!	21:27
SDuensin	Nice. The installation docs I'm writing have a link to the IMDB entry for "Aliens". How many enterprise software projects can claim that?	21:36
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perlmonkey2	SDuensin: I think that needs an explanation (the aliens link).	22:15
SDuensin	The docs say that if you already have some of the tools installed and you just tweak them instead of following my instructions that the best thing to do is "...take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."	22:20
SDuensin	I also have a section on the Care and Feeding of Your New IDE.	22:20
@rizenaway	care and feeding of your SD	22:20
SDuensin	Hey! You're supposed to be away!	22:21
@rizenaway	i'm here for 5 min	22:21
SDuensin	Oh yea. Sure. Just long enough to harass people. :-P	22:21
SDuensin	Hey, my boss in the next office is working with WebGUI. She's loving it. :-D	22:21
@rizenaway	bah...she'd like it better if she had webgui desktop	22:47
SDuensin	Well, she DOES love ZK Desktop. :-P	22:48
perlmonkey2	WebGUI is going to be ported to ZKDesktop?	23:38
SDuensin	I wish.	23:42
SDuensin	rizenaway and I were talking about writing another desktop for it that doesn't rely on Java and Tomcat.	23:43
perlmonkey2	Should wait for Perl 6	23:45
SDuensin	Could be a long wait.	23:45
@preaction	which has turned into vaporware?	23:45
@preaction	will it be released before Duke Nukem Forever?	23:46
SDuensin	hehe	23:46
perlmonkey2	I thought it was on schedule for December.	23:46
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@preaction	you mean "before christmas"?	23:47
@preaction	before christmas seems to be the Perl world's way of saying "you'll get it when you get it"	23:48
SDuensin	He didn't say WHICH December.	23:49
SDuensin	Ut oh. The new server I just ordered is 64 bit Linux. Time to rebuild the WRE. <sigh>	23:51
diakopter	perlmonkey2: you can help with Perl 6, if you want.	23:51
* SDuensin wants Parrot. And things to run on it, of course.		23:51
perlmonkey2	diakopter: First I have a WebGUI project I need to finish.	23:52
perlmonkey2	diakopter: And I still have a 60 hour work week at work until next Wednesday.	23:53
diakopter	perlmonkey2: whee!	23:53
perlmonkey2	diakopter: How do you manage to have time to do FOSS and work a job?	23:59
--- Day changed Sat Jul 14 2007
SDuensin	Gotta get 'em to play together. My job let me release ZK Desktop as FOSS, so I get paid to maintain it.	00:00
@preaction	dedication and lack of a social life, like the rest of us	00:00
diakopter	perlmonkey2: heh :P ... I don't do FOSS, truly. I just help do admin junk. like keep out the spammers from #perl6. or buying domain names. or doing other enabling stuff.	00:01
diakopter	preaction++ # those too.	00:01
perlmonkey2	diakopter: That sounds like something even a monkey could do......a perlmonkey	00:02
diakopter	well sure	00:02
diakopter	there are plenty of tasks like that that still need attention.	00:02
diakopter	admin junk is never ending.	00:02
perlmonkey2	well, I have a 7.27 deadline for the 7.4 release, so I'll talk to you about it after then.	00:03
diakopter	perlmonkey2: get off irc and finish your wG project! :P	00:03
perlmonkey2	diakopter: No, I document until 5, then finish wG.	00:03
diakopter	ahhh	00:03
perlmonkey2	and irc is much more fun then documentation.	00:04
* diakopter is readying a wG(svn-latest) install for a site that literally 25 domain names (will) point to. including perl6.com and perlsix.com, and tons of variants.		00:05
perlmonkey2	operator's manual, installiation manual, trouble shooting guide, QA'ing the code comments. A one man shop means one man gets to do all the crud work too.	00:05
perlmonkey2	25 virtual hosts?	00:05
@preaction	may want to avoid svn-latest, there are lots of untested features there (even though those features are awesomecore)	00:05
diakopter	yes, but all redirecting (or rewriteruleing, haven't decided) to various paths within the main site.	00:07
diakopter	preaction: I can handle it.	00:07
diakopter	if i find a bug, I'll nopaste a patch here.	00:07
@preaction	or buglist (someone may not be here to get your patch)	00:08
SDuensin	Outta here! Headed home. Later!	00:08
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diakopter	now... others may veto the use of wG for these sites... ;) and demand a more CPAN-ish web application platform, but whatever; I'm setting it up anyway for now.	00:12
diakopter	oh, that reminds me, I'll need to make a custom auth method that uses Apache2 htpasswd lists... unless someone has already contributed one.	00:15
diakopter	er, I take that back, the credentials are also in a sqlite3 db	00:16
diakopter	that's easier.	00:16
@preaction	i don't believe i've seen one, but the htpasswd list would be a nice addition (the auth system is kinda ugly atm, i'm trying to fix a bug in it right now)	00:16
diakopter	preaction: which bug	00:17
@preaction	there's a bug where deactiveAccountConfirm returns a WebGUI::User object (instead of the login form)	00:18
@preaction	i would assume if i explicitly return undef; from that sub in WebGUI::Auth, it would work	00:18
@preaction	but i'm trying to make a nice message saying "username has been deactivated."	00:18
@preaction	but it seems that calling $self->displayLogin would require me to know things about the subclasses, which is impossible	00:19
@preaction	example: the WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI->displayLogin has no arguments (while WebGUI::Auth->displayLogin has method, and vars arguments)	00:19
@preaction	i lied, wG::Auth::WebGUI has one argument, the method	00:20
@preaction	no wait, it's the message itself	00:20
@preaction	god... not documented...	00:20
@preaction	the problem being is this the same prototype as Auth::LDAP? or Auth::MyCompany?	00:21
@preaction	worse: if i change it, what API will i break?	00:22
diakopter	preaction: have you yourself seen the error message in question that results from deactivateAccountConfirm returning a WebGUI::User object? or only user-reported?	00:27
@preaction	i've seen it	00:28
@preaction	it shows: WebGUI::User(0xblah)	00:28
diakopter	when you deactivated yourself, or some other user.	00:28
@preaction	yourself	00:28
diakopter	oh... patch forthcoming.	00:28
diakopter	http://rafb.net/p/Dd3h5Q41.html	00:42
@preaction	k, seems simple enough	00:44
diakopter	well, er	00:44
diakopter	forgot about the api difference there	00:44
diakopter	insert 'login', after displayLogin( :D	00:44
@preaction	yeah, i'm thinking it won't work just yet to have that message	00:44
@preaction	because using an explicit "login" doesn't allow for other auth subclasses to specify different login methods, and calling $self->displayLogin goes first to that subclass which (the WebGUI Auth one for example) has a different prototype than the Auth.pm superclass	00:45
@preaction	so it would require fixing the API, which afaik i can't do until the API unfreeze	00:46
diakopter	okay, then this: http://rafb.net/p/ZfYzLE81.html	00:47
@preaction	that plus an explicit return undef in the Auth.pm should do it	00:49
diakopter	shouldn't need to change anything in the Auth.pm:deactivateAccountConfirm()	00:49
diakopter	since none of its callers care what it returns	00:50
diakopter	or, shouldn't at least.	00:50
@preaction	if they don't care, then they won't care that i explicitly return undef instead of returning the webgui user object	00:50
diakopter	true :D	00:50
diakopter	bbl	00:53
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diakopter	anyone around?	09:25
+Radix_	no	09:25
diakopter	anyone around with svn commit?	09:25
+Radix_	no	09:26
+Radix_	;)	09:26
diakopter	k; I'll post the patch tomorrow.	09:26
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perlmonkey2	the hoverHelp property of Wobjects now takes a template id instead of plain text?	18:05
perlmonkey2	Bah, duh, no.	18:07
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perlmonkey2	So I've never designed webpages in Linux before (I've always had access to Dreamweaver). If you use *nix only, what's your favorite HTML designer tool?	19:04
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+Radix_	vi	19:55
@rizenaway	vim	19:55
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perlmonkey2	Can someone point me at an ajaxified wobject?	20:14
@rizen-in-out	none of them use YUI yet, that's why we decided to standardize...cuz they were all using their own stuff....but	20:20
@rizen-in-out	Dashboard	20:20
@rizen-in-out	Project Management	20:20
@rizen-in-out	Time Tracker	20:20
perlmonkey2	rizen-in-out: Looks like your AJAX code is kept in extras. Should I just throw the complete YUI into extras?	20:43
perlmonkey2	oh.	20:43
perlmonkey2	nevermind.	20:43
@rizen-in-out	it is	20:43
perlmonkey2	I see it :)	20:43
perlmonkey2	For the survey, I a survey admin selects that the survey/quiz is a multi-session, I'm going to add a choice of length of time from start and also a hard datestamp, at which point the user will no longer be able to complete the survey/quiz. Sound reasonable?	20:50
perlmonkey2	Put that logic into "response.isComplete"	20:51
perlmonkey2	s/ I / if /	20:53
@rizen-in-out	yup	20:59
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+perlDreamer	Anyone home?	22:47
perlmonkey2	kind of	22:55
+perlDreamer	By chance, do you have any idea what an Oracle DSN for the DBI would look like?	22:55
perlmonkey2	mocking up the pages and JS for the ajax survey before I port them to WebGUI.	22:55
@preaction	iirc oracle can use the ODBC driver, but otherwise i don't think oracle has a working DBD anymore	22:56
perlmonkey2	hmm.....I would have to fire up my XP box which has my backups from an old job where I connected to Oracle. But I think it was very similiar.	22:56
+perlDreamer	okay	22:56
+perlDreamer	I'm moving some of the functionality out of the SQL Form into the DatabaseLink.	22:57
+perlDreamer	Things like finding the database name from the DSN and determining privileges.	22:57
@preaction	www.orafaq.com/faqperl.htm	22:57
+perlDreamer	That way they can be tested and kept track of.	22:57
+perlDreamer	preaction: thanks	22:57
perlmonkey2	oracle uses a normal dsn with "Oracle" as the driver name. so 'dbi:Oracle:database=db;host=localhost;port=666',uid,pwd	23:00
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: many thanks	23:00
perlmonkey2	Which requires DBD::Oracle, which preaction says is flaky?	23:02
@preaction	i don't know	23:02
+perlDreamer	I think he said unmaintained.	23:02
@preaction	i don't know why Frank needed to use Java instead of Perl for this migration we had to do before	23:02
@preaction	perhaps it's just non-free	23:03
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perlmonkey2	Someone how my www.host.com.conf has been converted into a JSON format. Anyway to revert it?	23:17
SDuensin	No idea dude. :-(	23:18
SDuensin	Got my own issues here.	23:18
* SDuensin is trying to build the WRE on RHEL x64.		23:18
@preaction	perlmonkey2: it's supposed to be JSON	23:20
@preaction	starting, i want to say, with 6.99	23:21
perlmonkey2	preaction: So after initial configuration, it is converted to JSON. Cool.	23:23
perlmonkey2	SDuensin: Wow. That doesn't sound like fun at all. apreqlib?	23:23
SDuensin	I have no idea. Fails building perl. I think my libs are in the wrong place. Complains about all the math functions.	23:24
@preaction	perlmonkey2: no, new installs of 6.99-7.x should come with JSON config files. or are we not talking about the WebGUI config file?	23:24
perlmonkey2	I think you misspelled "building perl" which should better be spelled "Fails because for some crazy reason I'm doing a full rebuild of Perl when RHEL comes with 5.8.8".	23:24
@preaction	perlmonkey2: the WRE comes with its own Perl, its own everything	23:25
SDuensin	perlmonkey2 - Trying to build the WRE.	23:25
perlmonkey2	preaction: We are. and I'm just retarded. The comments in the webgui.conf.example through me off. I'm just not used to seeing JSON outside of javascript.	23:25
perlmonkey2	SDuensin: you have my most sincere sympathies.	23:26
@preaction	the idea being you can just install the bare minimum system, download the WRE, get GNU make and GCC and you can compile a working WebGUI system	23:26
perlmonkey2	s/through/threw/	23:26
SDuensin	preaction - That's a great theory. :-P	23:26
@preaction	it's probably complaining about the math libs because they're all 64bit, you may have to point Perl to the correct place for your 32-bit compatibility libs	23:27
SDuensin	Greek, dude. This is the first 64 bit box I've worked with.	23:29
@preaction	64bit boxes have the 32bit libraries installed along with a translation layer for the kernel, somewhere on your system are those libraries	23:30
@preaction	either that or you have to find a 64bit perl	23:30
@preaction	it's greek to me too, i don't know thing one about compiling programs and finding dependancies	23:30
SDuensin	How does the WRE know which one it's building?	23:30
@preaction	there are flags to GCC in the build.sh script	23:30
SDuensin	Yea. I was poking around in there.	23:31
* perlmonkey2 stabs spectre in the neck. Why won't you stop dieing and write to webgui.log		23:37
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diakopter	testEnvironment.pl is missing HTML::TagCloud	03:23
diakopter	er, no it's not	03:24
* perlmonkey2 ponders what in WebGUI could use HTML::TagCloud.		03:37
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+Radix_	the wiki?	04:24
perlmonkey2	Keyword.pm is the only package that uses HTML::TagCloud it appears.	04:25
perlmonkey2	Ah, create and modify keywords used by the asset system.	04:27
@preaction	new feature that currently is used by the wiki, but may be adapted to other assets (like CS posts)	04:30
perlmonkey2	rizen-in-out: I have a q about the survey. I'm going with the flowchart option, but have started poking about the line drawing for connecting nodes. Putting in some logic to make the lines curve around other questions/answers would be a bit tricky. So for now, I'll have the lines draw straight over anything in the way and let the user drag things around to keep the flowchart clean.	04:31
perlmonkey2	Also, for now, it might appear a bit chunky. Each q will be a draggable div, but contain a table with the q on top, and answers stacked in rows below. The user will be able to select an answer and drag it to another question, which will cause a line to be drawn between that answer and question (the answer div will snap back to the original question).	04:33
perlmonkey2	The flowchart will grow to the right, with forks going vertical (down), although the user will be able to drag them wherever they want. Answers will default a connection to the next question id, or none at all.	04:35
perlmonkey2	Since the flowcharts will quickly cause the screen to scroll, adding q&a's will be done with right click context menus. Deleting nodes will be done with double click, and will orphan children.	04:36
perlmonkey2	right click context menus will bring up a dialog with all the options.	04:37
perlmonkey2	At least that's how I'm going to prototype the system unless you say otherwise ;)	04:38
perlmonkey2	I'm just trying to cram in all the functionality for 7.4 and make it pretty, smooth and sexy for 7.4.1	04:42
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