WebGUI irc logs from: 2007-07.log

--- Log opened Sun Jul 01 00:00:49 2007
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+Radix_Anyone about?04:52
+Radix_2007/07/01 09:57:39 - WARN - mycompany.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - Couldn't call method edit on asset for url: style/read/templates/read-navigation-template Root cause: Can't locate object method "new" via package "HTMLTemplate" (perhaps you forgot to load "HTMLTemplate"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm line 252.05:00
+Radix_happens whenever I try and edit a navigation template I'd created.. yet if I keep clicking on edit then it eventually works and opens it fine05:01
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tichyCould not set uid/gid on '/var/www/domains/rab2/uploads/temp/qy/qySOEpf2dOLv1rEeorBPZg/ZheCfsFTMBtiBlSe-oDoAw.storage'12:54
tichywhenn uploading a webui packages, but permissions seem to be right12:55
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+MrHairgreaseare you there?20:44
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@rizennow i am21:14
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@rizenfor a few seconds21:15
+MrHairgreasethe recent addons thingy seems to show only first revison of posts21:19
+MrHairgreaseuntitled should be GoogleMaps Macro21:20
@rizenpost a bug report21:25
+MrHairgreasewill do21:25
@rizenoh and go get a hair cut, you hippie21:25
+MrHairgreasejust got one last week21:30
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--- Day changed Mon Jul 02 2007
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+perlDreamerYou know it's bad when you don't pay attention to the bugs reported by your own tests...00:53
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SDuensinGood morning.16:01
ckotilgot an iPhone 16:11
ckotilits great.16:11
ckotilhad to fight with att all day saturday to 'port'  my old cell number.16:12
ckotili didnt know it was called porting until the 4th call, back and forth between carriers.16:12
* SDuensin iGroans.16:18
SDuensinI'll wait until it's got a decent data network.16:19
ckotilweb pages take about a minute to load, as do youtube videos16:19
ckotilits excellent on wifi tho16:19
ckotili love being able to catch up on news while im on the toilet16:20
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pjesiI dont get the fuzz18:03
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--- Day changed Tue Jul 03 2007
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@preaction http://www.ohloh.net/projects/103 <- interesting website about OSS01:07
@preactionsays that webgui would take about 10 million USD to build from scratch01:09
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+perlDreamerrizen: I need a consult for a deprecation notice.02:36
+perlDreamerWe're not allowed to add new session variables, but the current ones are okay?02:36
+perlDreamerThat's from Asset::Template::Parser, line 37 or so02:37
+perlDreamerBut in the docs themselves it says bluntly that session vars are deprecated, wholesale.02:37
+perlDreamerWhich is it?02:37
@preactioncurrent ones are okay i think, new ones are a bad idea02:42
@preactioni imagine they should be added somewhere else02:42
@preactionor macros02:42
+perlDreamerThat's what I was thinking, too.02:42
@preactionis there something that requires them?02:42
@rizencurrent ones are ok now, but will eventually be eliminated02:42
+perlDreamerSo they should be marked and doc'ed as deprecated.02:43
+perlDreamerIn that case, I'll rework the example in Style Template without them.02:43
@rizenthey will eventually be replaced with something else02:43
@rizenlike a macro or something02:43
SDuensinHi rizen, perlDreamer, preaction.02:44
+perlDreamerthanks, rizen (and you too preaction)02:44
+perlDreamerIt's good to know y'all are on the same wavelength.02:44
@preactionthat's what JT's magic hammer is for02:45
* preaction nurses a few bruises02:45
+perlDreamerYou should be glad he used the blunt end :)02:46
+perlDreamerHey, SD.02:46
SDuensinMy brain hurts.02:49
+perlDreamerSDuensin: are you using an iPhone?02:53
SDuensinFrack no.02:53
+perlDreamerThen what's the cause of your cerebral distress?02:53
SDuensinI'm trying to learn cross-platform real-time 3D rendering.02:54
@preactionOpenGL? SDL?02:54
SDuensinDepends on the platform.  :-)02:54
SDuensinOgre3D is the graphics thingie.  Lots of other code involved, too.02:54
+perlDreamerrizen, preaction: what do y'all think of this: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/view-profile02:56
+perlDreamerbug or RFE?02:56
@preactionsounds like a site style issue to me02:56
@preactionoh, it's logged against plainblack.com02:56
+perlDreamerIt's small enough that I was thinking we should just stick do it.02:56
@rizeni'll send steve an email02:57
+perlDreamerpreaction: it is style based, but I think a lot of the navs and styles suffer from it.02:57
@rizensteve's bug to fix02:57
SDuensinHey rizen - does PB do any charity stuff?02:58
@rizenwhat is it for?02:58
+perlDreamerDo you mean like giving away their software for free? :)02:59
SDuensinOk.  Just curious.  I donated server space and WebGUI hosting to a new foundation for a guy who died in a triathlon.  They have no idea how to manage it.  Wondered if you'd be interested in kicking them a couple Primers or something.02:59
* SDuensin is doing his best to teach them.02:59
@rizensome guy died?03:03
@rizenthat doesn't seem like much of a charity03:03
SDuensinYes.  And to be honest, I don't know where they're sending the money they raise.  If I had to guess, it'd be to LiveStrong, but that's just a guess.03:05
SDuensinIt's been a rough week.  Dude was a coworker of mine.03:05
SDuensinHorribly ugly site.  Done in 2 days by my poor boss who is trying to learn WebGUI as she goes.03:06
SDuensinHehe - looks like she just figured out two column layouts.  :-)03:07
@rizeni'll have to say i pass.  i'm sure he was a great guy and all, but 14,4000 people die on the planet every day. i can't set that sort of precident03:07
SDuensinThat's fine dude.  Never hurts to ask, so I figured I would.  :-)03:07
SDuensinI really hope she changes that "logo".  It screams of Windows Paint.03:11
+perlDreamerHaarg: I found knowmad's template editing bug.03:20
+perlDreamerThe Help has an autogenerated list of template parsers, based on the config file.03:20
+perlDreamerIt stomps on the config file entry, because it's a reference.03:21
@preactionyou're joking03:21
@preactiongod damn it03:21
+perlDreamerI know, I suck03:21
+perlDreamerIt's probably not the only one, either.  I'll check the other autogenerated docs as well.03:22
+perlDreamerMacros are okay03:27
+perlDreamerAssets are okay03:28
+perlDreamerWorkflow Activities are okay03:29
+perlDreamerIt's just the template parsers.03:29
+perlDreamerI didn't make a copy, just dereferenced.03:29
+perlDreamerand then altered $_ inside the loop of a map, which changes the parent, which is what config points to03:29
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+perlDreamerwhen is 7.3.20 scheduled for release?04:00
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+perlDreamerI'm almost ready to commit a fix04:06
+perlDreamerIt looks like it could cause the bug, but I don't see a way for the config variables in one session variable to be leaking into the session var for the next request.04:06
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+perlDreamerpreaction: there's no code to prevent you from using the WebGUI database link that I can find.06:19
@preactionit's supposed to06:19
@preactioni thought there was, to prevent exactly what that caused that bug06:19
+perlDreamerthere's code to remove it from the select list, but that's it06:20
+perlDreamerif you update the db manually, or hack the form it would work fine.06:20
@preactionwe might have to ask martin about it06:20
+perlDreamerI'll try to catch him tomorrow.06:20
+perlDreamerbtw, do you know when 7.3.20 is due to be released?06:21
@preactionprobably wednesday06:22
+perlDreamerthe 4th?06:23
@preactionuhm... durno then06:23
+perlDreamerYou have any plans for the 4th?06:24
+perlDreamerFamily, gf, bbq, blow things up?06:24
@preactionnope, i imagine i'll be working06:24
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vayderizen, you going to be around Sunday night?  I'll be in town.  Wanna grab a brew?07:25
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SDuensinGood morning!15:41
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Leonany one can help me out ?15:56
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+Radix_not in 6 minutes, no16:05
* SDuensin chuckles16:05
ckotili think i got an iPaperWeight16:07
ckotilbattery seems like its bad.16:07
ckotilits not going a full day, with minimal use.16:07
SDuensinDead battery?  That'll be $85 please.16:08
SDuensinYou using the WiFi or just letting it sit?16:08
ckotili turned off wifi and email check.,16:09
+Radix_replacement battery from apple = return the device and they'll solder a new one on for you for $$$16:09
ckotilman..id be so pissed off if they charge me.16:09
ckotilas if i hadnt paid enough already16:09
SDuensinYea.  Apple announced the battery is $85.95.16:09
ckotiland we learned yesteray about how much this thing costs apple.16:09
ckotilits under $300.16:09
SDuensinI'd think you're well within whatever sad warranty they offer.16:09
ckotilid thihnk since i just got it, they'd give me a nwe phone.16:10
+Radix_if they still have stock to give you one16:16
* SDuensin has a RAZR. It sucks, but it plays DOOM!16:21
+Radix_I have an o2 atom which rocks.16:21
nubao2 atoms dont rock, they oxidise16:24
nubaand actually its not o2 atoms, o2 its the entire molecule16:26
+Radix_Umm.. yeah16:29
nubain fact its all wrong. you write O2, no chemical element is written with the first letter in smallcaps16:36
nubalet me see, did I left anything out of the nitpicking ? 16:37
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xdangerhmm.. Is it possible to edit a CS submission before Approving it?17:09
xdangerWe have a user updated list, and sometimes they have badly formated text or something like that... But we have to approve it first so that content managers can edit it...17:10
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@rizenradix, are you here?19:35
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+perlDreamer(Time appropriate greeting), folks20:09
+perlDreamerpreaction: can you give me a pointer to the DBI grant code that you mentioned a while ago?20:48
* perlDreamer hates log file gaps20:55
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+perlDreamerThings are hopping in the channel today00:46
+perlDreamerMust be because of the holiday00:46
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+perlDreamerHola, SDuensin01:26
+perlDreamerWhat's up nt he java desktop world?01:30
SDuensinWonderGrid is almost ready to ship!  It's an awesome database editor.01:52
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cap10morganso, http proxy assets rewrite form fields so they have HttpProxy_ as a prefix02:14
cap10morgando you basically just have to modify the script that they post to to handle the new names?02:14
cap10morganor can you turn that rewriting off?02:14
+perlDreamerNo idea.02:15
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+Radix-wrkckotil: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/03/iphone_hacking_progress/03:59
@preactionand again i must point out that they are talking about CRACKERS not hackers...04:32
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* vayde waves to perlDreamer07:11
+perlDreameryo, vayde!07:12
+perlDreamerThe daughter of a friend of mine is taking martial arts.07:13
+perlDreamer"uwe..." something07:13
vaydeCool.  What style?07:13
+perlDreamerMeans the formless way?07:13
+perlDreamerShapeless way?07:13
+perlDreamerBasically, she's going to be a tough street chik07:13
vaydeUde perhaps07:14
vaydeladies need to be touch07:14
vaydeer tough07:14
+perlDreamerthey need both, but only on their terms :)07:14
vaydesadly I've not met an adult woman who hasn't felt she was tossed around or at some guy's mercy at some time in their life07:16
vaydeIt's nothing sinister.  Men are, on average, larger.  You judge the world by yourself.  Force you think is appropriate is too much for a smaller person.07:17
+perlDreamerLooking at the bug list, you would never guess that we had it down to 6 bugs07:21
+perlDreamerI'm going to crash out.  Catch you later, vayde07:24
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nubaanyone ever got this error when trying to start httpd.modperl ? Fatal error 'Spinlock called when not threaded.' at line 83 in file /usr/src/lib/libpthread/thread/thr_spinlock.c (errno = 2)10:00
nubathis is in a freebsd 5.3-RELEASE running the latest wre10:01
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nubamorning folks, if anyone has any idea on this 'Spinlock called when not threaded.' error, please let me know15:53
nubai've found about freebsd's /etc/libmap.conf, but it seems it isnt changing anything :/15:54
+Radix_Sorry nuba - never encountered it before16:01
+Radix_I've also never used freebsd tho16:02
nubaok, thx anyway16:08
@rizennuba, contact len@ilance.nl16:43
@rizenthat's Len Kranendonk, i think you met him at the WUC16:43
@rizenhe uses FreeBSD in webgui hosting16:43
@rizenhe may have an answer for you16:43
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nubacool, thx rizen, yeah i remember len22:17
nubavery cool guy22:17
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+perlDreamerJust the guy that I need to talk to.23:49
+perlDreamerI have some SQLForm questions for you.23:50
+perlDreamer1) Where is the code that prevents you from using the WebGUI database.23:50
+MrHairgreasethere is no such code23:51
+MrHairgreasethe sqlform only drops the default db link from the list23:51
+MrHairgreaseso you can use the wg db by creating an extra db link23:51
+perlDreamerSomebody nuked their site using the SQLForm23:51
+MrHairgreaseand they did that by using the default dblink23:52
+MrHairgreasei read the report23:52
+perlDreamerDid you read the other bug report about the SQLForm permissions?23:53
+MrHairgreasemostly i skim through the bug reports23:53
+perlDreamerthey specified a wildcard in the grant for the database name23:54
+perlDreamerwhy do permissions need to be checked?23:54
+MrHairgreasei didn't even know that you could do that23:54
+perlDreamerme either23:54
+MrHairgreaseb/c if you don't have the right perms23:55
+MrHairgreasewg will fatal error23:55
+MrHairgreaseand leave half an asset dangling in the tree23:55
+MrHairgreaseand all that crap23:55
+perlDreamerew.  So you think that the SQLForm should handle the wildcard search?23:55
+MrHairgreasei guess so23:56
+MrHairgreaseactually i think mysql should ditch those wildcards in db names23:56
+MrHairgreaseor even better23:56
+perlDreamerI think the DBI should provide a way to tell if a user has certain permissions in the database.23:56
+MrHairgreasecreate a generic meachnism to query perms23:56
+MrHairgreaseand return those in one way23:57
+MrHairgreaseyeah that too23:57
+MrHairgreasebut it doesn't23:57
+MrHairgreaseI actually spent a lot of time on figuring out a better way to do it23:57
+MrHairgreasebut I failed23:57
+perlDreamerIt's really pretty robust, but it has some edge cases.23:58
* MrHairgrease retract into a corner and cries23:58
+MrHairgreasedid you see my googlemaps macro btw?23:58
* perlDreamer pats MrHairgrease on the head and hands him a scotch on the rocks.23:58
@preactioni personally think we need to get rid of RaiseError in the DBI connections and handle all the errors ourselves (that way it would be possible to recover from things like that)23:58
+perlDreamerVery nice.  I even voted for it.23:58
+MrHairgreaserecognition =)23:59
+MrHairgreasefatals on sql queries are a pain in the ass23:59
+MrHairgreaseotoh we now know when the db's getting messed up =)23:59
+perlDreamerI've been having this idea for a website, and I need exactly that kind of functionality, but wrapped in an Asset.23:59
+perlDreamerThe db will mess itself up, without our help.23:59
--- Day changed Thu Jul 05 2007
+perlDreamerdb corruption sucks00:00
+MrHairgreasebut that' partly due to the lack of referential integrity in the wg schema00:00
+MrHairgreasei don't think there are any foreign keys in the db00:00
+perlDreamerno foreign keys00:01
+MrHairgreaseso we have to rely on our leet haxor skills00:01
+MrHairgreaseto keep it together00:01
+perlDreamerI need to learn SQL, because I don't know what a foreign key is.00:01
+MrHairgreaseand i think we are doing a good job at that00:01
+perlDreamerIt could be easier?00:01
+MrHairgreasei hear ya brother00:02
+MrHairgreasei'm in the same league00:02
+perlDreamerOkay, so it sounds like the SQLForm will happily let you shoot yourself in the foot.  No fix00:03
+perlDreamerBut we should handle wildcard database names.00:03
+perlDreamerI can write tests for that.00:03
+perlDreamerI'll mock the DBI, and force it to send back data that I can shove into the _dbPermissions sub from SQLForm.00:04
+MrHairgreaseit's just almost impossible to detect the actual db's that are in a link00:04
+MrHairgreaseok that'll be cool00:04
+MrHairgreasei'm really very busy with my graduation thingy00:05
+perlDreamerIs it related to your LED paper?00:05
+MrHairgreasebut I'll be on my way to France by next monday00:05
+MrHairgreasei'll show you some stuff at the wuc00:05
+perlDreamerMaybe I should bring some 1-wire parts, with the SHA-1 inside.00:06
+perlDreamerwait, tunnel junctions.00:06
+perlDreamerAre you doing EEPROM/Flash stuff?00:06
+MrHairgreasei won't be bringing parts though00:07
+MrHairgreasejust images00:07
+MrHairgreaseyou mean for my graduation?00:07
+MrHairgreaserelating to the flash stuff00:07
+MrHairgreaseit's more physics than electronics00:07
+perlDreamer_databaseLinkHasPrivileges really belongs in DatabaseLink.pm, don't you think?00:09
+MrHairgreasei think i discussed that with jt some day00:09
+perlDreamerOn IRC?00:10
+MrHairgreasecould be00:10
+perlDreamerwe need a dedicated logger in the channel with a search engine.00:10
+MrHairgreaseor otherwise on the devlist00:10
+MrHairgreaseirc is quicker00:10
+perlDreamermuch quicker00:10
+MrHairgreasebut i kinda miss the devlist00:10
+MrHairgreaseespescially since i'm in another tz00:11
+perlDreamerThis is true.00:11
+MrHairgreaseand lately i'm not on the channel very much00:11
+perlDreamerI'll throw the question out there, then you can reply and sound all sage and wise since we've already talked it through here :)00:11
+MrHairgreasei'll just paste my irc log00:12
+MrHairgreaseeasy money =)00:12
+perlDreamerI don't suppose Joeri is sitting around nearby?00:13
+perlDreamerIt should really be SQL.00:13
+MrHairgreasehe isn't on msn either00:13
+MrHairgreasejoeri should be sql?00:14
+perlDreamerNo, there should be a SQL way of determining user rights.00:14
+MrHairgreasei agree00:14
+perlDreamerOne that wraps the internal engine's API.00:14
+perlDreamerin a consistent, external query.00:14
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+perlDreamerbug --00:25
+perlDreamerperlbot: karma bug00:25
perlbotKarma for bug: 100:25
+perlDreamerperlbot: karma bugs00:25
perlbotKarma for bugs: -200:25
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preaction_question for those who go to geek meetings (perl mongers, LUG)05:35
preaction_would a porn joke be considered "out of line"?05:35
preaction_i'm thinking making a folder called XXX and putting a bunch of work documents, quipping "That's the name of the folder for stuff I don't like to look at"05:35
vaydeI don't consider that out of line, but I'm not yr average geek05:37
preaction_i suppose it might be ... sexist, and we already have a big enough problem with women in the CS field...05:38
vaydeI would use that, and far worse in the course of my classes05:38
preaction_i've got a two-hour presentation due in 8 days. i think i'm a little ... screwed05:38
preaction_but i work better under pressure ;)05:39
vaydeIf I can help, just holler05:39
vaydebut I think that remark is pretty tame05:39
preaction_i googled for "perl one-liners" and found a wealth of material, just gotta cut it down and make it flow05:39
preaction_a one-line HTTP server: perl -MIO::All -e 'io(":8080")->fork->accept->(sub { $_[0] < io(-x $1 ? "./$1 |" : $1) if /^GET \/(.*) / })'05:40
preaction_you wouldn't happen to have any favorite modules to use in one-liners?05:40
preaction_i mean, LWP::Simple, CPAN, File::Path perhaps05:41
preaction_ooh, totally forgot about File::Path, I hate having to create deep directories105:41
vaydenot me.  I'm not much of a one liner guy.  I'll ask one of my guys05:41
preaction_perl -MFile::Path -e'mkpath "this/is/a/deep/directory"';05:41
vaydeyou're doing a presentation on one liners?05:42
vaydethat's pretty cool05:42
preaction_if i do nicely i might ask if one or more of the local LUGs would like to hear it (more converts for the fire)05:43
vaydevery cool05:43
preaction_i think it's more of a rite-of-passage into complete nerd-dom. trial-by-fire and all that jazz05:44
vaydeyeah, well, certain folks we both know like that kind of stuff05:44
preaction_if andy'll be there, he's already given a presentation on this, so i imagine i'll have some experts to ... assist in my... baptism05:45
vaydeYou'll do fine05:45
preaction_who do you think told me i had to do this ;)05:45
* vayde nods, rolling his eyes05:45
preaction_it's not the presentation part i'm too worried about, i've got an actor's mentality to public speaking05:45
vaydehow much public speaking/presentation experience do you have?05:45
vaydeahh, good05:45
preaction_it's that i'm going to be faking a lot of knowledge i won't have05:45
preaction_but i imagine "i don't know, but i can guess..." will be okay for this group05:46
preaction_or "i don't know, but i know where you can find the answer to that..."05:46
vaydeso don't fake it.  present what you know concisely05:46
vaydethat will be fine I'm sure05:46
vaydeone of the coolest and most liberating things about being a teacher in any capacity is the ability to say 'I don't know'05:47
preaction_a lot of it will be CPAN modules, so there's an out ("look on CPAN for the X::X module")05:47
preaction_but then again, learning while writing this thing is the main reason i'm doing it05:48
vaydeshould be fun05:49
preaction_i hope so. plus i imagine JT'll be there, so not entirely hostile audience (someone I can bounce bad jokes off of)05:49
vaydeOr at least hide behind if the crowd gets too surly.05:50
vaydebig dude like that will block many thrown objects05:50
preaction_i dunno, if they start chucking laptops i think i'm going to have to find something female to distract them while i make a break for it05:51
preaction_i'll bring the GF!05:51
vaydeAre you in Madison?05:51
preaction_no, Oshkosh is about 90 minutes away05:52
vaydeI'll be in town on Sunday05:52
vaydeHmm I'll have to look at a map, if it's not too far off the path, maybe we can grab a brew?05:53
preaction_it's up hwy 151 (60 minutes) until hwy 26 (30 minutes)05:53
preaction_what time would you be thinking?05:54
vaydeI'm done about 5-ish05:54
vaydeI'll need to eat something, and then head for home05:55
vaydeI'll have some time though.  Just have to be back in time for work on Mon05:56
preaction_iirc i was planning on going to Wild Rose sunday during the day, which would put me closer to madison than oshkosh.05:57
preaction_the issue being my gf would be coming with, and she's not yet of the age to go bar-hopping05:58
preaction_i imagine there're decent bar/grills around madtown though05:58
vaydehonestly, I probably shouldn't do a lot of drinking witha 4 hr drive ahead of me05:58
preaction_which would work better anyway05:58
vaydelast I heard, my gf is coming along too, we could at least have dinner05:58
preaction_4 hrs? why do you need to be in madison?05:59
vaydeI have students there.05:59
preaction_so once a month or bi-weekly or something?05:59
vaydeI don't really want to drive 4 hours each way and spend my only down day in a seminar, but the kids are so dedicated05:59
vaydeat least in theory06:00
vaydeIt was less of a problem when I didn't have 2 jobs06:00
vaydeor when the second job was technically IN madison06:00
vaydehey preaction_, did JT finish the new version of the wre?06:36
preaction_i'm not quite sure if it's finished yet, we've been busy06:37
preaction_i think that was his hope this week, but right now he's at the origins games expo thingy06:37
preaction_but it was also his hope last week, and iirc the week before too06:37
vaydehmm, my wre is incompatible with the latest version of wg.  06:37
preaction_7.4 requires 0.8 i think06:37
preaction_at least, the modules that come with 0.806:38
preaction_might have to run sbin/testEnvironment.pl06:38
vaydeis that whats in the repo right now?  7.4?06:38
preaction_that's the trunk, yes06:38
vaydeyeah, that would explain the errors06:39
vaydebut wre 0.8 isn't out?06:39
preaction_not that i'm aware of yet06:39
preaction_major changes from what i hear, and the abolishment of a separate windows WRE06:39
vaydewild.  be interested to see how that was accomplished06:41
preaction_i'm more interested in the new features, apparently a perldoc server has been added06:42
preaction_to view perldoc of WebGUI modules06:42
vaydegod I miss wG06:42
vaydeI keep thinking once things settle down a bit I'll be able to do some more development here06:43
preaction_word. it's hard to believe that just a few weeks ago the bug list was down to 6 :(06:43
vaydeI haven't looked at it06:43
vaydeany of them with the email password recovery?06:44
preaction_not that i remember06:44
vaydethat's nice.  06:44
vaydeI can't make heads or tails of the new site.  It's pretty, but I can't find anything.06:45
vaydewhere's the buglist?06:45
vaydeahh, now I see06:46
vaydethat's the nice thing about wG.  I'd actually like to solve probelms with it, learn more about it06:46
vaydewith the crap I'm working on right now.  It's hard to care06:46
vaydeIt's kinda like diagnosing problems on windows:  Step 1) use something else06:47
vaydethe only good note is it's just temporary.  We all hate it.06:48
vaydethere we go.  dev environment is back up06:50
vaydenow I better go back to the *fun* stuff06:50
vaydeyou should see the autoloader on this bastard06:51
vaydeI'd post it, but that might violate something06:51
preaction_mmmm NDAs06:51
preaction_proprietary systems06:51
vaydeno NDA06:51
preaction_trade sekrits?06:52
vaydethat kinda surprised me06:52
vaydeI'm sure somebody thinks so06:52
vaydethey've been surprisingly lax06:52
preaction_i imagine you signed your rights to your code away? like responsible colleges do to professors on fellowship?06:52
vaydeno, nothing06:52
vaydeI had to sign more to work with PB than I did to work for usbank06:53
vaydeI've signed _nothing_06:53
vaydegf is not coming, but we could still grab dinner if you like preaction_07:51
vaydedo you have my cell?07:51
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preaction_uhm, i'd like to but it looks like wild rose is a bit further from madison than I anticipated (2 hrs.), and the idea with going to WR is to introduce the GF to the mother (and hopefully the siblings)07:58
preaction_is it always the first weekend of the month? that's rocky weekend07:58
vaydenaw, depends on when all involved are free08:04
vaydethere'll be another time08:04
vaydeI'll be back on the 12th of August08:04
preaction_was just wondering, if you had a place to stay the Velvet Darkness does their thing the 1,3,5 saturday at 11:30p at the Orpheum08:05
preaction_another time, then08:05
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vaydecool.  I'd come out Sat. night if I had somewhere to stay, but as it is, I'll just drive out early and drive back in late08:07
vaydeI'd stay with my students, but they have dogs, and you know me... delicate08:07
preaction_yes... delicate08:07
vaydethat's not much of a bug08:13
vayderecon you can squash it real quick.  I don't have access anymore08:14
preaction_eh, i could if i weren't doing other things08:14
vaydejust lettin you know...08:14
preaction_actually that's a wiki page, everybody should be able to change that. and those two tutorials should be in the wiki somewhere already08:17
vaydeI'll see what I can do08:17
vaydenew site is slicker than snake snot08:24
vaydeyou ever check out vimperator?08:29
vaydeIt's pretty cool.  turns firefox into vim mor ore less08:30
vaydekeybindings, commands, etc08:31
vaydepretty cool, doesn't play nice with wG though apparently.  08:31
preaction_would be interesting, i find myself using vim commands in firefox on a regular basis (space to page down, / to find, ctrl+b to go back a page, etc...)08:33
vaydecheck it out08:34
vaydeactually, it's pretty easy to get it to play with wG now that I find the trick08:35
vaydecan I close the bug?  or do I have to tell someone to do it?08:36
preaction_i think you'd have to tell someone to do it08:38
vaydesomeone other than you?08:39
preaction_nono, i can do it08:39
vaydeno worries, sooner or later someone with the power will look at it, and take care of it08:39
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SDuensinGood morning!15:36
SDuensinHi ckotil 15:40
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* pjesi misses news on the frontpage20:32
* cap10morgan does too20:36
@preactionlike release news?20:46
pjesifor instance20:59
pjesiit is now only on the commercial site20:59
@preactionanyone know who wrote the new user invite thing for 7.4? was it perlDreamer?21:26
@preactionas a side note, i like 7.4 and think it will be teh awesome. a lot of RFEs went into this one21:31
@preactionfirst release in 2 weeks21:32
@preactionmaybe 321:32
* pjesi does not yet had a look at it22:02
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perlmonkey2Is it possible to do a passthrough on a cgi directory?23:03
@preactionpassthrough tells webgui to ignore it, you'd have to tell apache what to do with it, but it might be better to have that directory bypass webgui entirely using a <Directory> or a <Location> directive (either that or you have to do both, i forget which)23:04
perlmonkey2What do you mean by directory bypass?  23:39
@preactionperlmonkey2: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-get-passthruurls-to-work23:48
@preactioni imagine you can SetHandler cgi-script .pl .cgi after SetHandler None (to remove the mod_perl handler)23:49
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perlmonkey2Weird, it was the sethandler none that worked.  I had sethandler PerlScript and that just gave me the .pl code.23:51
@preactionthat's an apache issue, #apache can help, but might i suggest SetHandler cgi-script .pl23:52
perlmonkey2preaction: no, sethandler none fixed it.  now it works.  just strange.23:52
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+perlDreamerpreaction: you were looking for me?00:00
@preactiondo you have any idea why the value for a required on registration element would be "HASH(0xblah)"?00:01
@preactioni've got one site from unitedknowledge that's doing this00:01
@preactionand i have so little information about what's going on there that i can't figure it out00:01
@preactioni can't reproduce00:02
+perlDreamerIs that part of User Invite, or the password recovery stuff?00:02
@preactionhttp://arjan.unitedknowledge.nl/?op=auth;method=createAccount <- this00:02
@preactioni noticed some weird code in the createAccount sub: $emailField = {}; but later it's treated as a scalar (when getting the e-mail from the invite code)00:03
+perlDreamerthat might explain the email address, but not the second field.00:04
+perlDreamerHm.  With user invites turned off, the hash ref leaks through.00:06
+perlDreamerThat's a bug.00:06
@preactionoh, it happens when it's turned OFF... god00:07
+perlDreamerHow do you pull an old rev out of SVN?00:08
@preactionsvn up -r<revision>00:08
@preactioni was thinking that too, it might be a bug already fixed00:08
+perlDreamerNo, I'm running on head and it's still in there.00:10
+perlDreamerAnd there's the other bug, stomping on the required fields.00:11
@preactionwtf why does it not show up on my site?00:12
+perlDreamerDo you have user invitations turned on?00:12
@preactioni tried it turned on, i tried it turned off00:12
+perlDreamerwhat rev are you running?00:13
+perlDreamerAnd do you have profile fields set as required?00:13
@preactioni'm running HEAD, and i set them as show on registration, i'll check required00:14
@preactionemail is: visible, editable, required, and show at registration00:14
+perlDreamerThe fix is very simple00:15
+perlDreamervim Auth.pm00:15
+perlDreamers/emailAddress = \{\}/emailAddress = undef/00:15
@preactionoh god, i couldn't see it because i had fixed it already00:16
+perlDreamerDude, you're psychic!00:16
+perlDreamerCommit the fix and remember to chastise me thoroughly in the commit log00:16
+perlDreamerwhy does Config->set have to write the config file?01:41
nubawhoa, i've just received the June edition of IEEE's computer magazine01:47
nubathere's a nice article about this tool called Koala01:47
+perlDreamerwhat is it?01:47
nubabeing developed by IBM, targetting web scripting for the masses01:47
nubayou go to a website, use it, fill a form, submit, do stuff, etc.01:48
nubaall that gets recorded by a firefox sidebar01:48
nubain plaintext format01:48
nubayou can share that script, edit it, etc01:48
nubait recognizes the places in which you have to fill for stuff and asks the user for it01:48
+perlDreamerlike HTTP::Recorder ?01:49
nubareally cool when it comes to automating using websites01:49
nubafrom what i understand, HTTP::Recorder works like a proxy, right ?01:49
+perlDreamerYes.  If you combine it with WWW::Mechanize, it would do what you're talking abuot01:50
+perlDreamerbut requires hacker-level proficiency, not typical-user01:50
nubabut the researcher there states the goal of this tool is to help "small teams easily automate their own idiosyncratic workflows"01:50
nubaand to build a community of people sharing these automations on the web01:50
nubayeah im familiar with www::mechanize01:50
nubayou really have to see the screenshots of the sidebar with the script to get the gist of it01:52
+perlDreamerIs it online publicly?01:52
nubaits sooo like stuff my parents would be able to use01:53
nubajust a sec..01:53
nubayeah here you have it: http://www.computer.org/portal/site/computer/menuitem.eb7d70008ce52e4b0ef1bd108bcd45f3/index.jsp?&pName=computer_level1&path=computer/homepage/June07&file=invisible.xml&xsl=article.xsl&;jsessionid=GN2rhtFcSdyv4pLTT1TCdBH4v9vm3ngJT0j81y1kLvL29kZ9g2vS!159925715401:54
nubaor http://tinyurl.com/3eyk4x01:54
nubai went to IBM's website right away but its not yet available 01:55
+perlDreamerYou're right.  It's very social.   Kind of like a scripted, interactive HOWTO.01:56
+perlDreamerBut I also see where it could be used to browser level test automation.01:56
nubanotice in one of the images, this toolbar: "open in sidebar" "run" "edit" "duplicate" etc.01:56
nubaand below the script, the comments from other usres01:57
nubathis pic: http://tinyurl.com/3a5vh801:57
nubayeah this would make writing automated tests also very easy01:58
nubai have some problems with www::mechanize, mostly because of javascript editing the dom01:58
+perlDreamerThe interface reminds of VB macros in Microsoft Office.01:58
+perlDreamerYeah, I've looked a little at Selenium to handle problems like that, but it seems like a steep learning curve.01:59
nubawell when that happens with me i have to grab the html from the mech, edit it as needed myself, and feed it again to the mech02:00
nubaso that means coupling www::mechanize with firefox's webdeveloper and livehttpheader extensions02:00
nubaits really messy02:00
nubalooking at selenium now02:02
+perlDreamerDoea Koala require installing a plug-in, or does it work entirely in Javascript?02:05
nubawell as of yet it seems like a firefox extension to me02:08
nubatheres a nice video in the ibm website too02:09
+perlDreamerI'll have to check that out at home.02:09
+perlDreamerNo multimedia at $dayJob02:09
nubaheh i'll stop now02:09
nubaheh btw im by no means whatsoever involved with IBM or the koala initiative etc. etc.02:10
+perlDreamerHey, it does sound very cool.02:10
+perlDreamerI'd rather write koala than Selenium/Mech code any day.02:10
+perlDreamerIt's natural language.02:10
+perlDreamerThat means we could get WebGUI users to record bug statements and then publish them.02:11
+perlDreamerNo more trying to guess how they did something.02:11
+perlDreamerThen those bugs become part of the permanent record for wG.02:11
nubayeah its amazing what you could do with that02:11
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SDuensinGood morning.15:39
SDuensinHi Radix_ 17:12
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+perlDreamerMorning folks17:50
+perlDreamerI noted your commt from last night, preaction17:54
+perlDreamerYou forgot to chastise me :)17:54
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+crythiasand then I said to her... Necklace? I thought you said Perl Module...18:36
+perlDreamerThat's how you always get the girls, crythias.18:37
+crythiasSomehow, "Let me insert my module in your filesystem" just doesn't seem to be an aphrodisiac with most women.18:37
+perlDreamerno, filesystems are about storage.18:38
+perlDreamerThey want to be a module in your kernel, not some peripheral.18:38
+crythias"I promise it's taint safe"18:38
+crythiaswell, as long as I can insmod or kldmod18:39
+perlDreamerSo what's up in the BSD-using WebGUI world?18:39
nubawith thread libs and modperl crashing18:40
nuba> Fatal error 'Spinlock called when not threaded.' at line 83 in file /usr/src/lib/libpthread/thread/thr_spinlock.c (errno = 2)18:40
+crythiaswell, what with it using ImageMagick.18:40
+perlDreamerIt's only 3 weeks 'til the 7.4 WebGUI and 0.8 WRE release.18:41
+perlDreamerThen it will start using GraphicsMagick instead18:41
+crythiasI spose I should update my faq18:41
nubano shit!18:44
nubaits gone!!! :o18:44
+perlDreamerSerious, nuba.18:44
+perlDreamerWhat do you mean?18:44
nubaits been three days since this was kicking my ass18:44
+perlDreamermod_perl stuff on BSD?18:44
nubaoh damn18:44
nubanot really, its still here18:44
nubayes, mod_perl, threads, freebsd...18:45
nubanow its not producing that Spinlock error anymore18:46
nubaits only silently segfaulting18:46
nubaaint it lovely?18:46
+perlDreamerIs switching to a different BSD or Linux an option?18:46
nubathis is with the 7.2 wre, btw18:46
nubais gonna be, if it continues like this18:46
nubawre on linux has always been smooth for me18:47
+perlDreamerI haven't used the WRE yet.  I've always used Fedora's packages.18:48
nubawith freebsd the install is all about "ok, lets find out about what went wrong this time" moments18:48
nubaat least for me18:48
nubaok, this is looking good18:51
nubanow for the record, if anyone else gets stuck on this18:51
* perlDreamer suggests a wiki page18:51
+perlDreamerinstead of an IRC log18:51
nubahmm can be18:52
+perlDreamerIt _is_more work, but you'll reach a whole lot more people that way.18:52
+perlDreamerMake you a deal.  If you'll share the fix, I can make the wiki page.18:53
nubaim already at the wiki, thx anyway :)18:55
nubawhere would freebsd-specific notes go there ? a new wiki page, or as a section into the http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-building one?18:56
+perlDreamerI would make a new page.  WRE-Building-on-BSD18:57
nubathese I have here are just are just scattered notes, no text structure or much coment, is that fine ?18:58
nubai figure its a good seed18:58
nubaif someone wants to build upon it later18:58
+perlDreamerThe new version may make the info unnecessary, but it will help people today, and who don't want to upgrade yet.18:59
+perlDreamerpreaction: ping19:03
+perlDreamerCan you please move this http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/webguiuser-has-no-way-to-get-a-user-when-you-only-know-their-username19:03
+perlDreamerto the RFE section?19:03
@preactioni imagine assigning it a difficulty of 1 would be prudent, since the patch seems stable19:06
+perlDreamerIn fact, maybe someone with SVN access will add it himself.  Perhaps even write test code for it.19:07
+perlDreamerBut it has to be an RFE for that ;)19:07
nubano words for how im happy after getting modperl to act straight on freebsd :)19:07
nubathey joy of bugfixing :)19:08
+perlDreamerShould I be worried that it took 3 days for an email to the WebGUI dev list to come through?19:08
nubaor rather, circunventing19:08
@preactioni just nudged spectre, i think there's still a problem with the cron code19:20
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nubaim so lucky19:25
nubagetting an error with spectre now19:25
nubaroot@aviva# date19:25
nubaFri Jul  6 08:19:25 UTC 200719:25
nubaroot@aviva# perl spectre.pl --run19:25
nubaCannot determine local time zone19:25
nubashould I fill a bug ?19:25
+perlDreamerThat may not be a WebGUI bug, but a DateTime bug.19:25
ckotilwe're encountering a bug with date time, not webgui related tho19:26
+perlDreamerdo share :)19:26
nubait triggers here19:26
nuba211:            POE::Kernel->run();19:26
nubaleaves the spectre.pl code here19:27
nubamain::(./spectre.pl:107):               Spectre::Admin->new($config, $debug);19:27
ckotilim not sure of the specifics.19:27
nubaim trying with the machine's date not set to UTC19:27
nubaok, doing this..19:31
nubaroot@aviva# cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Sao_Paulo /etc/localtime19:31
nubaroot@aviva# perl ./spectre.pl --run19:31
nubait works fine19:31
nubais that a bug?19:32
+perlDreamerOnly for the operating system.19:32
nubai see19:33
nubai know this may look dumb, but how do i add a new topic to the wiki ?19:52
nubai tried addind a link to the toc and work from there, but it didnt worked19:52
+perlDreamerIt's not dumb.  It's obfuscated.19:52
+perlDreamerSearch for a page19:52
+perlDreamerThe search results page will give you a link to add a new page.19:52
nubaok. thx19:52
+perlDreamerpreaction: is that RFE considered "approved"?20:02
@preactioni don't know, while i would approve it, i don't know what TMRFE will say to it20:02
+perlDreamerwell, I have it all prepped, including testing code.20:02
+perlDreamerI'll wait till he weighs in 20:02
+perlDreamerAnyone know cap10morgan's real name?20:07
nubaadded http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-building-on-freebsd-5.3 to the wiki20:09
+perlDreamerThanks, nuba!20:17
+perlDreamerckotil: you may want to read that article, since he also had lftp building problems.20:18
+perlDreamerlunch, then Transformers.  cya later21:53
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ckotilah, thanks.23:37
ckotiltransformers rockd!23:38
nubait transformed me23:41
nubain a dissatisfied moviegoer23:41
nubai think it didnt live up to my expectations as one who watched transformer toons as a kid23:42
nubai felt like the trailers i've seen were better than the movie (!)23:44
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ckotilheading home.00:26
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@preactionRadix_: you around? have you heard anything good or bad about the Nokia N75 phone?08:34
+Radix_I really don't know much about nokia smartphone's myself.  I went windows mobile years ago and haven't looked back :)  I like reading ebooks too much.08:41
@preactionyeah, it'd be nice to get a WM5 phone, but i also have to think about what plainblack will buy me08:42
+Radix_Ahh.. salary sacrificing for it or something like that?08:42
@preactionno, i got a raise for taking on the responsibility of being on-call08:43
@preactionso they'll pay for a phone/plan08:43
@preactionwithin reason08:43
+Radix_heh.. k08:43
@preactionthey won't pay for an iphone, but a $50 i'm sure i can convince vrby08:43
@preactioni got the financing for my house, so i'll be broke for a few months because of the down payment08:43
@preactionunfortunately, when i can't even make calls because the damn antenna is gone on my motorola 820008:44
@preactionplus, it'd be very very nice to find a phone with bluetooth DUN08:44
+Radix_sony ericson make some nice phones, but they're not really smartphones08:44
@preactionnokia N75 has it, but i've been reading these reviews saying that the battery life is rather low (it says 4 hours of talk, 8 days of standby, but these reviewers say less)08:44
@preactiondoesn't have to be very smart08:45
@preactioni need: mp3, bluetooth DUN, link with any OS08:45
@preactionand apparently branded phones are crap, but that's about all you can get in the US08:46
+Radix_my gf has the sony ericson k800i and is pretty happy with it08:46
@preactionhttp://www.myrateplan.com/iphone_compare/ <- i've been looking at this thing08:46
@preactionthe ericson W810i is on there, and that seems nice08:47
@preactionexcept for the no high-speed data (EDGE / HDsomething)08:47
+Radix_hers has a 3.2mp camera which takes some pretty good shots08:47
@preactionit's a camera that happens to be a phone08:49
+Radix_it's actually a pretty decent phone too08:50
@preactionyeah, it does look nice, would work for just about all i need, now to find a carrier08:50
+Radix_We don't really have anything faster than edge here tho, so don't know about hsdpa08:50
@preactionsometimes i swear the america gets shafted because of our system of "phone goes with network plan"08:56
@preactionhttp://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n95-1716.php <- holy crap me wanty!08:57
@preactionwhich is, of course, $700 for the phone08:58
+Radix_They have a phone/plan combo here too.. which is how most people buy stuff.. but you can buy a phone outright as well - it just costs a bit more09:09
+Radix_especially for the higher end phones, as the lower ones get subsidized a lot09:09
@preactioni'm tempted to wait until open moko is released on a phone09:21
@preactiona free OS for mobile phones would be awesome09:21
@preactionit's like we're at the cusp of a mobile computing revolution, and it'd be stupid to try to find a decent one until the dust settles09:25
@preactionon one end, you have the iphone, on another end, the neo1973, and you've got every other company pushing to get towards the iphone09:26
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+perlDreamerDoes anyone know why WebGUI::Storage::Image doesn't recoginize tiff's or bmp's as image files?00:02
+MrHairgreasether just not is some array in trhat file00:04
+MrHairgreasebut why they aren't i do not know00:04
+perlDreamerDude, this cannot be.  I thought you knew everything?!00:07
+MrHairgreasei do00:07
+MrHairgreasebut tomorrow i'll be off to France00:07
+MrHairgreaseso i'm on vacation00:07
+MrHairgreaseask me again in three weeks =)00:07
+perlDreamerYou have a good vacation, Martin.  You've earned it.00:07
+perlDreamerDrink some great wine and eat some stinky cheese.00:08
+MrHairgreasei hate cheese00:09
+MrHairgreasebut i'll compensate with some extra wine00:09
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@rizennuba, r u here?00:59
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+Radix-wrkhttp://video.on.nytimes.com/?fr_story=f390265dcbb9e1f1da97a69637e921d39b6c99aa - iPhone: the Musical03:32
@rizenthat's hillarious03:47
+Radix-wrkHe seems to do a good assessment of the pro's and con's too :)03:57
+Radix-wrkyou got one yet JT?03:57
@rizenwell at least of the perceived pros and cons03:57
@rizengot it on iphone friday03:57
+Radix-wrkGot root access yet?03:57
@rizenno, don't care to03:58
@rizennot at least until people learn how to install applications on it03:58
+Radix-wrknot even curious? :)03:58
@rizenlast week i was on site at a convention that one of our clients was running, and i took the iphone03:58
@rizenbut i left my laptop in the room03:58
@rizenwhile on the convention floor i used the iphone to look up informaiton on the web, check the status of some web sites, keep in touch with my staff and convention folks through email and phone03:59
@rizeni took notes of software issues, kept all my appointments with the calendar03:59
@rizenwoke myself up each morning with the built in alarm clock03:59
@rizenand took pictures of the convention attendees04:00
@rizeni can honestly say, that the iphone was AWESOME for this04:00
+Radix-wrkDo you guys have data charges in the US for web browsing/email/etc?04:00
@rizennot a single problem04:00
@rizenit's built in to the cell phone04:00
@rizenunlimited data transfer04:00
@rizenbuilt into the plan i mean04:00
+Radix-wrkWhat kind of plan is that?04:01
@rizenmy wife and i both have iphones, and we get 400 SMS messages, 1400 anytime minutes, free in-network calling, unlimited nights and weekends, and unlimited data transfer for $130 (total for the 2 phones)04:02
+Radix-wrkHmm.. expensive plan04:03
@rizenexpensive compared to a regular cell phone plan04:03
@rizenbut cheap compared to most PDA / Smartphone plans04:04
@rizenat least in the US04:04
@rizendon't know about abroad04:04
@rizenmost smartphone plans don't have unlimited data04:04
@rizenand most only come with 100 sms messages04:05
@rizenfor that price04:05
+Radix-wrkAhh k.. that sounds more like it is here then04:05
@rizeni went to a wedding this weekend where half of the people there were from oz04:13
@rizenthe groom is a friend of mine from sydney04:13
@rizenbut people came in from all over 04:14
+Radix-wrkWe get around :)04:15
+Radix-wrkBesides.. it's cold and wet here.. so of course we'd want to go north :)04:15
@rizenrequires your local pc to be on and in range04:33
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sstanvirhow r u doing?07:56
rizen_terrible, and you?07:57
sstanviri dont know how I am now ...;)07:57
sstanviri am having serious problem with webGUI cache07:57
sstanvirr u in the mood of discussion ?07:58
rizen_i'll see what i can do07:58
rizen_be warned that i don't really do support on this channel...but we'll see07:58
sstanvirthats enough.. thnx07:59
sstanvirthe problem is..07:59
sstanvirour customer is always complaining that +07:59
sstanvirhe is always gets old content (from our server that uses webGUI)07:59
sstanvirwe setup the "prevent proxy-caching"07:59
sstanvirbut now its like.. +08:00
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sstanvirwhen we refresh a page.. it still shows the old content+08:00
sstanvirit only shows the new content when we close the browser +08:00
sstanvirand reopen it08:00
sstanvir(browser = IE)08:00
sstanvirwhat should I do now?08:01
rizen_what version do you use?08:02
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rizen_that's the problem08:05
rizen_7.3.18 and above has all cache problems fixed08:05
rizen_there's no easy way to backport them to 7.008:06
sstanvirhmm 08:07
sstanvirI am afraid. management can't afford to setup new version of webGUI at the moment08:07
sstanvirit's a always up server ..08:07
sstanvirisn't there any patch or something like that?08:08
rizen_i just said no08:08
rizen_and you don't need to set up a new server08:08
rizen_you just need to upgrade08:08
sstanvirproblem is original sources have been changed to meet requirements..08:09
rizen_well if you want to try and patch it yourself you can08:10
rizen_the changes were made in lib/WebGUI.pm08:11
rizen_and lib/WebGUI/Session/Http.pm08:11
rizen_i think that's it08:11
sstanvirah.. cool08:11
+Radix-wrkrizen: is wg 7.4 going to have those changes to allow users to change their passwords easier?  (without involving entering in profile fields like 7.3 does?)08:11
rizen_if you search through https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI08:11
rizen_you might be able to find the specific patches made08:11
+Radix-wrkcool.. just checking :)08:12
+Radix-wrkWe're still using 7.08 because of that ourselves08:12
sstanvirok rizen, I will pass on the info to my team lead.. 08:13
sstanvirlets see if it works patching  lib/WebGUI.pm and lib/WebGUI/Session/Http.pm08:14
sstanvirthank u very much08:14
rizen_why would you change the core of WebGUI/08:15
sstanvirwell.. i dont know much.. but08:16
sstanvirlike instead of webGUI authentication method.. some other modules have been made 08:16
sstanviri guess not much change.. 08:16
sstanvirbut drop by drop it made huge changes08:16
rizen_yeah, and it sounds like you used plugin points08:17
rizen_and if that's true08:17
rizen_then there's no problem08:17
sstanviri guess so08:17
+Radix-wrkany authentication modules the rest of us could benefit from? :)08:18
sstanviractually its nothing special ..08:23
sstanvirjust changed too add some function for user validation or password recovery methods..08:24
+Radix-wrkhehe.. I'm right at the end in that - the "Not-The-Sysadmin" guy :)09:02
+Radix-wrkOn a related note: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/3321009:13
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SDuensinGood morning!15:49
ckotilgood morning15:53
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Khaytsuspreaction: Remember my "asses have disapeared" issue from a week ago?  It's mysteriously fixed.20:26
KhaytsusOne clue I've gotten is someone said "I went to your page, went to register, filled it out, got the email, and when I clicked the link to verify, the page was blank"20:26
KhaytsusAnd that was ~7 days ago20:26
KhaytsusSo my guess is some process involved in that did some maintenance or something.....  I've disabled anonymous registration for now.20:27
@rizennuba, are you around?20:27
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nubarizen: around?22:17
@rizenyeah, on phone...be with you in a min22:18
nubaok, bbiab, relocating..22:18
@rizeni'm back when you are22:20
nubaim @ university atm, will be back at home later today22:20
nubawhats up?22:20
@rizenwas wondering what the status of the maps asset was....do you think you'll be finished by the feature freeze date (July 2)22:21
@rizenJuly 2022:21
nubai hope so22:21
nubawhats the real deadline, for me to submit this to you ?22:22
nubai understand you want to launch 7.4 onjuly 20, isn't it so ?22:22
@rizenyes...july 2022:23
@rizenthat's the real deadline22:23
nubagetting this to you on july 20's noon time would be ok ?22:24
nubaawesome. will keep it in mind, of course the sooner the better :)22:26
nubai've got a couple of gmaps ebooks to boost me up to speed22:27
nubaso im confident i'll make it in time for the deadline22:28
@rizeni really want to use it on webgui.org22:28
@rizenso webgui users can stick a pin in it for wherever they are and we'll know how far reaching the community is22:28
nubathat'd be rad!22:29
@rizenit would also be neat to see if there are other users local to yourself22:29
@rizenso in my case, how many webgui users in wisconsin22:29
@rizenor in your case, brazil22:29
@preactionrizen: the new 7.4 password recovery, should it be possible to turn it off? or should it always be "email" unless it is "profile field"?22:29
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@rizenit should be "off", "email", or "profile based"22:30
@rizenthat way we can also add others later if we want22:30
@rizenand some sites don't want you to get back in if you lost your account22:30
@preactionbecause either this patch wasn't finished or whoever wrote it was being durned lazy...22:30
@rizenthat sux22:30
@preactioneh, to be expected22:30
@rizenthe good news is that whomever wrote it doesn't work here anymore, and therefore we don't have to put up with crap from them22:31
@rizennothing for you to worry about nuba22:35
@rizenjust an RFE for 7.4 that one of our former employees only half wrote, but that said was done22:35
@preactionyeah, this is what'll take my day today...22:37
@preactionif i'd like the WebGUI::Operation::Settings->www_editSettings to be able to display an error message, knowing that the settings that comprise the form can come from anywhere, would i have to use a session scratch variable (like WebGUI::Asset->www_edit currently does)?22:41
@preactionnevermind, i think i have a good idea22:42
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Khaytsuspreaction: You notice I mentioend my assetts problem went away earlier? :)23:48
KhaytsusGo figure23:49
KhaytsusDAMN work cache..  Just gave me a scare, I thought it was broke again23:50
@jamestolleyanyone have an idea how I might change the background color on locked assets?23:59
@preactionin the asset manager i hope?23:59
--- Day changed Tue Jul 10 2007
@jamestolleyI don't think so... I think it's to show up on each page, if the thing is locked... it looked hairy to me..00:00
@preactionit might mean when admin mode is on, notice the grey bar above each asset on the page? that's encased in a div. you should be able to edit the template to change the background color of that div00:04
@preactionit doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but whatevz00:04
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@jamestolley... is this your understanding as well  ? That these are the places, and nowhere in the code, where these background-colors need to be edited (to be dynamiuc, of course)01:42
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+perlDreamerrizen: If WebGUI wins the community choice award, are you coming out to Portland to accept it?01:43
nubasourceforge's community awards are great to raise awareness about a given software01:45
nubaim crossing my fingers for webgui01:45
+perlDreamerI'll wear my supply of WebGUI T-shirts to the conference.01:46
nubai can see a ultramegaboost in the community size if that happens01:46
nubacause that means appearing in all sorts of medias01:48
* perlDreamer hopes for more testing whackos01:48
nubain all sorts of places01:48
+perlDreamerwe need to bootstrap the automated browser testing of WebGUI01:48
nubaperlDreamer: was it you who i've talked with about koala ?01:49
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nubain a broader sense, generally speaking, programs which have a GUI could have as well means to report their GUI's features and resources so that they could be programmed. a specific instance of this would be the browser reporting all "hotspots" of a html document being rendered, be it html, embedded plugins, etc.01:55
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+perlDreamerkind of makes you wonder if that's already been done, automatic GUI testing, rather than the subset of automated browser testing.01:56
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nubaif you think about koala, its just at the browser level, just at the html01:56
nubai wonder when we would see something of which koala would be a specialization01:57
+perlDreamerIt's more than HTML, because it's automating clicks and other operations, isn't it?01:57
nubabut i bet it wont support clicking on a embedded flash in a page01:59
nubaor java applets02:00
nubai used to do lots of automation with this tool long ago http://www.networkautomation.com/automate/interface.htm02:00
nubabut that was more like the usual recorded macros thing02:00
@rizenstupid irc client02:09
Radix__perlDreamer: koala could work on IE as well if it worked well with IETab02:17
+perlDreamerWhat's IETab?  Does it read and interpret FireFox extensions?02:23
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+Radix-wrkpreaction: http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/09/openmoko-neo-1973-and-advanced-dev-kit-finally-for-sale/05:06
@preactiondamnit damnit damnit05:07
@preactionyou'll never guess what i just bought...05:07
+Radix-wrkthe openmoko website is dead anyway.. you'd never get an order in :)05:08
@preactionsamsung upstage05:08
@preactioni've got a thirty-day grace period05:09
@preactionbut it's the only phone i've found that supports bluetooth DUN, and is a half-way decent mp3 player05:09
* Radix-wrk googles.05:09
+Radix-wrklooks chunky05:09
@preactionhow so? this thing is tiny05:10
+Radix-wrk3.5mm jack - that's good05:10
@preaction3.5cm by 9cm by .6cm about05:10
+Radix-wrkOh.. sorry.. with the battery wallet05:10
@preactionyeah, that's a little bigger05:11
+Radix-wrkOkay.. so it's two sided with a button switching between them?05:11
@preactiononly slightly annoying05:11
+Radix-wrkcandy bar design.. hmm.. looks nice enough05:12
+Radix-wrkDunno about samsung tho05:13
+Radix-wrkHow easy is it to connect to your pc and get files on/off it?05:13
@preactionit's decently easy, the samsung drivers appear to support everything standard windows05:14
@preactionhaven't tried OSX yet05:14
@preactionplus they have a not-quite-intuitive music syncing program (not as good as itunes by a long chalk)05:14
+Radix-wrkNever used a samsung phone myself.. but I know my mum's LG syncing software is diabolical05:14
+Radix-wrkevery company does it differently :)05:15
@preactionyeah, it'd be best if they all just decided to support the One Standard (the USB file sync and/or bluetooth file sync)05:15
+Radix-wrkAll should have mini usb connectors imho :)05:16
@preactionhaven't figured out if it supports bluetooth A2DP yet, there's another phone at spring that does, but it's as big as my old phone (a fracking brick)05:16
nubawhy isn't webgui listed here: http://freenode.net/primary_groups.shtml ?05:18
+Radix-wrkyeah, a2dp is nice, though I ended up not using my stereo bluetooth headset as much as I'd thought I would so sold it to a friend05:18
nubaerr, #webgui05:18
nubarizen: ?05:18
@rizenyes nuba05:19
nubawhy isn't webgui listed here: http://freenode.net/primary_groups.shtml ?05:19
@preactioni want a2dp so i can get a bluetooth enabled head unit for my car, then my awesome will be complete05:19
nubaim just curious, not whining..05:19
@rizenthat's preactions job05:20
@rizenhe's in charge of irc05:20
nubait seems they can be contacted at web@freenode.net for comments on that page05:21
@preactioni'd have to have vrby or you do all the paperwork, they want a contact address / phone number before they'll give out stuff like that if i remember correctly05:22
nubai'd comment that "webgui is missing" :)05:22
@preactionthey're verified by phone it seems, if i were to fill out a group contact form05:23
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nubahere's the reply from web@freenode.net re: link to webgui missing on freenode's website: http://sial.org/pbot/2617010:24
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SDuensinGood morning!16:06
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perlmonkey2rizen: I've got bad news and worse news.  The bad news if I haven't started.  The worse news is my project milestone has been pushed back to the middle of next week.  So I won't start having, what normal people call, downtime until the middle of next week where I can start on the new survey system.  Yes, I am a luser.17:15
@rizenthat's horrible and terrible news17:16
perlmonkey27.4 is released on the 20th, right?17:21
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perlmonkey2Does WebGUI have any way of accepting/managing payments?20:57
@preactionthe Commerce module, currently "beta"20:59
@preactionyou can build plugins for payment gateways, currently comes with an Itransact gateway20:59
@preactionand i believe there's a community-contributed Paypal one, but don't quote me on that21:00
@preactionhowever, from what i hear Commerce is being completely re-written for 8.0, and done right21:00
perlmonkey28.0?  When is 8.0 coming out?21:03
@preactionprobably quite a while from now21:08
@preactionwe've gone from 7.1 to 7.4 in the last 10 months of my tenure here, so i'd assume late next year at the very earliest, but that's just idle speculation21:09
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KhaytsusGoes fairly fast..  I missed about 12 updates in 3 months it seemeed when I last updated.21:26
KhaytsusAd I think I am behind again :)21:29
KhaytsusYep, one release..  But no biggie, I'll wait.  It upgradesnicely anyway.21:39
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--- Day changed Wed Jul 11 2007
perlmonkey2I don't want this to sound like a criticism, because it is an honest question, but why does WebGUI need to be installed in the root directory (I've installed it elsewhere, but I had to change hard coded paths in code).01:34
+perlDreamerit's just the convention01:35
@preactionit's easier to manage. it'd be possible to make the directory configurable, but nobody's done it yet (and i don't know if JT would authorize it)01:35
perlmonkey2Good, I like it.  I'm documenting my app for delievery, and I'm looking for reasons as to why I force them into installing it in the root directory.01:36
perlmonkey2And since I'm already being a nusance, can someone point me at the svn URL?  I need to grab the latest.01:37
+perlDreamerlatest, like 7.4 or latest version of 7.3?01:38
+perlDreamerI'm pretty sure it's on the wiki01:38
perlmonkey2Okay, I'll check there, thanks.01:38
+perlDreamerthat has the SVN URL, which is HEAD, which is 7.401:39
+perlDreamera copy of 7.3 would be found in https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.301:40
perlmonkey2perlDreamer: Cool thanks.  But if I'm going to try to write something for 7.4 release, shouldn't I be using the 7.4 code base?01:41
+perlDreameryes, but it isn't stable01:41
+perlDreameruse at your own risk01:41
perlmonkey2perlDreamer: Unless someone is working on a new survey system that happens to use my test namespace, I should be fine :)01:43
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+perlDreamerAnyone know why the table feature is disabled in the Wiki?01:48
@preactionprobably because it's just using the Post Rich Editor, which has tables disabled01:50
@preactionyou could configure it differently, of course01:51
+perlDreameror you could flip into HTML mode and enter it directly, too ;)01:51
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@preactionshould admins be automatically in the Visitors group?03:46
+Radix-wrkaren't admins by definition in every group03:50
@preactionyes, but visitors group is only visitors, no?03:54
@preactioni mean, in the code, there doesn't seem to be an automatic admins <-> visitors relationship03:54
+Radix-wrkHmm.. visitors may be the exception really.. and kinda makes sense03:56
+Radix-wrkthere's probably a fair bit of "if not visitor" code around03:57
@preactionbut if not visitor = registered user03:59
@preactionthat's probably better to do03:59
@preactionunf, better04:02
@preactionfixed that bug04:02
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+Radix-wrkhowdy stranger04:42
+crythia1images as assets/attachments?04:42
+crythia1has a concensus been made?04:43
+Radix-wrkI must have missed the discussion - not sure what you're talking about :)04:44
+crythia1dev list thing04:44
+Radix-wrkAhh.. I see the thread04:46
+Radix-wrkI'm with the asset crowd04:46
@preactioncrythia1: the discussion is the dev list, this is more quick one-on-one. for long-term project goals and stuff that needs all the community involved, that's the dev list04:46
@preactionreply so JT knows what the community wants04:46
+Radix-wrkI still want images inserted into through the html editor to link to the asset, not the image too.04:47
+Radix-wrkWas just thinking of adding that as an RFE again04:47
@preactioni'm more towards storing JSON objects in the database with more information about attachments04:47
+crythia1well, yeah i just wanted to know if anything was hashed out here04:47
+crythia1why can't things be hybrids?04:49
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+crythia1they're attached but they can be referenced either as an attachment or asset, depending what you want to do with them.04:50
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* Radix-wrk adds a new RFE and waits for JT to say he hates it.05:22
* diakopter says JT hates it, for him.05:31
diakopter(j/k; I haven't even looked at the rfe)05:31
perlmonkey2Is there a standard object for use to communicate with Ajaxified pages?05:37
@preactionnope, unless you want httpproxy05:40
perlmonkey2Or would you just use the standard www_ calls and have the ajax handle the results?05:40
perlmonkey2Which probably means a framework of objects on the ajax side shoudl be developed with YUI.05:41
@preactionthat's what i do, usually i call them www_ajax*05:41
perlmonkey2preaction: cool.05:41
@preactionand that's underway too, in www/extras/yui-webgui05:41
perlmonkey2you guys think of everything :)05:41
@preactionnot everything, but a lot05:42
KhaytsusI should try the project management and wiki..  I haven't yet06:12
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* Radix-wrk just uploaded a Lightbox2 webgui package to webgui.org for anyone interested.06:20
KhaytsusWhat would that be?06:24
KhaytsusProject Management is a little klunky, but usable mostly06:26
@preactionyeah, that one needs to be redone06:26
+Radix-wrkJust added a link to my test page showing examples of it's use06:27
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KhaytsusThat's pretty cool06:29
KhaytsusI have been meaning to put a limited photo album in mine, but have yet to do it06:29
+Radix-wrkyeah, that's what I thought, so I got it to work in webgui :)06:30
KhaytsusSo you're a webgui consultant?  Interesting.06:30
+Radix-wrkyeah, just starting it up as a business really.06:31
+Radix-wrkjust a sideline afterhours really06:31
Khaytsusah, gotcha..  WebGUI is a good platform.  I use about 2% of it I think ;-)06:32
KhaytsusMan I know I'm a complete tard, but I'm not even sure how to start a WIki page..  Guess I'll try editing the content with some standard wiki stuff and see what happens..06:33
+Radix-wrkyou have to search for something before it'll let you add new06:37
Khaytsusoh, doh..  That's a shortcut to it in TWiki, didn't think about that.06:38
KhaytsusI always make a WikiWord so it's not orphaned06:38
KhaytsusThat's a little unclear...06:38
+Radix-wrkI happen to agree :)06:39
KhaytsusAnd the WikiWord links are... odd06:42
KhaytsusThisWord, the link is Word06:42
KhaytsusI'll have to try that template tommorrow, neat stuff06:47
KhaytsusHey, that was easy ;-)06:56
KhaytsusI need to resize the images, ahem :)06:56
KhaytsusBe nice if I could figure out how to display all the images directly, rather than in an album below the main page.07:00
KhaytsusI must be missing something :)07:01
+Radix-wrkHmm.. not sure how you'd do that, but it might be possible07:07
+Radix-wrkthe images are attached to a thread - and essentially you're viewing a thread when you click on an album07:07
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@preactionwould it be prudent for a feature to make links? i mean everything else can be handled by the HTML editor, but perhaps let [[WikiWord]] be a wiki link?07:27
@preactionthat would probably make things a lot better for the wiki07:27
@preactionthat and adding Category pages07:27
@preactionor Tag pages07:27
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@rizentags are in08:14
@rizenadded it to 7.4 08:14
@rizenas far as making links, i'd prefer that stuff only gets automagically linked or hand linked. i don't like wikis that link to pages that don't exist08:15
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KhaytsusI personally prefer to make preferences to WikiWords that I plan on defining, then defining them.  Yes, I doo hate when those WikiWords don't get defined, but at least the template is there.13:39
KhaytsusThat's always how I create pages in TWiki myself; fill in content and WikiWords as I go along, then go in and fill in each of the WikiWords content.13:40
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jdanHi everybody. I'm new to WebGUI 7, but very familiar with WebGUI 5. I am looking form document which describe how to testing new Perl modules. The problem is that I have to restart Apache every time I change source. Could someone point me any solution how to set my environment?17:22
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Radix__jdan: is this what you're looking for?  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/configure-the-wre-for-developers17:46
Radix__http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/stop--start/6 - this topic has more info as well on how to configure Apache2::Reload17:48
jdanRadix__: Almost. I don't use WRE. So I am trying configure my Apache2 to work with Apache2::Reload. Unfortunately I don't know how to set WebGUI path to @INC in config17:49
Radix__Check out that second topic then17:50
Radix__IMHO if you're not using the WRE then you're shooting yourself in the foot from the get-go ;)17:50
Radix__Good luck! :)17:51
* Radix__ wanders off to bed.17:51
jdanok, I will install WRE on my Debian.17:52
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jdanRadix__: I found solution. I added "PerlSwitches -Ipath-to-webgui_lib" and Apache2 reload modules if it is changed18:05
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+perlDreamerI need a cross platform check on a test that's failing.21:17
+perlDreamerDoes anyone have 5 minutes to run a test for me on their system?21:17
@rizeni have osx ppc, will that work?21:21
@rizenand i only have 7.4 set up right now...can i use that?21:21
@rizenok then21:21
@rizenwhat do you need?21:21
+perlDreamerexport WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/rizens.conf21:22
+perlDreamercd /data/WebGUI/t21:22
+perlDreamerperl Macro/FetchMimeType.t21:22
@rizenshould i update to latest?21:22
@rizeni'm probably a few hours behind21:22
+perlDreamerIt won't matter21:22
+perlDreamerDoes the test pass?21:23
@rizenok 1 - use WebGUI::Macro::FetchMimeType;21:23
@rizenok 2 - gif21:23
@rizenok 3 - jpeg21:23
@rizennot ok 4 - plain text21:23
@rizen#   Failed test 'plain text'21:23
@rizen#   in Macro/FetchMimeType.t at line 73.21:23
@rizen#          got: 'application/octet-stream'21:23
@rizen#     expected: 'text/plain'21:23
@rizenok 5 - octet-stream for unknown type21:23
@rizenok 6 - Null path returns application/octet-stream21:23
@rizenok 7 - Undef path returns undef21:23
@rizen# Looks like you failed 1 test of 7.21:23
+perlDreamerIt looks like javascript files are handled differently than they have been in the past.21:24
+perlDreamerI'll update the test.21:24
+perlDreamerThe test suite caught two fatal bugs today, so now I'm doing other triage.21:25
+perlDreamer13788 tests run, all clean21:42
+perlDreamerI'll run the CODE_COP tests later, too21:42
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--- Day changed Thu Jul 12 2007
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KhaytsusHmmmm, how does one convert an article into a thread?  I was thinking I saw a way to do that once.  I have a handful of articles that I now want to put into a collaboration system (Topics template001:40
KhaytsusCopy and paste I suppose...  I tried just moving them into the Collaboration System under Manage, but that didn't do much :)01:40
@rizencopy and paste the content01:40
Khaytsusk, I figured that was gonna be the asnwer.01:40
@rizenif it were more than a handful, it may be useful to write a program to do it01:41
@rizenbut in this case..not really01:41
KhaytsusNah, not too many01:41
KhaytsusJust figured I might be missing something01:42
KhaytsusThanks :)01:42
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+Radix_preaction: what's with the multiple personalities? :)  ie. DBell and preaction on the forums02:21
@preactionapparently "alias" isn't good enough for some parts of WebGUI02:23
@preactioni imagine i'll go into the db and change my username someday02:23
+Radix_Alias works - but each thread post must embed the name used or something02:25
+Radix_your first reply is listed as DBell, then the second is preaction02:25
+Radix_same userid each time tho02:25
@preactionyeah, between there i changed my alias02:25
@preaction(the original alias defaults to username)02:26
+Radix_do you know if a 7.3.21 is planned at all?02:30
@preactioni think it is, i think there'll be one more stable release before 7.402:32
+Radix_if you get a chance, could you roll this one line change into it? - http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/left-admin-bar-overlap-problem02:32
@preactionbut 7.4 was pushed back, so there might be another02:32
+Radix_it was posted a while back, but I don't think anyone noticed02:33
@preactionit was just a damned specificity problem?02:33
+Radix_just z-index wasn't set for the right object02:33
+Radix_or rather was set in wrong css tag02:33
@preaction.slidePanel and #slidePanel refer to the same thing (in theory), but classes are "less specific" than IDs, which assigns them less weight to the cascade, so z-index: 100; becomes more important02:34
@preactioni'll put this on my to-do list02:34
+Radix_no, .slidepanel is included only if class="slidepanel", #slidepanel is only included if id="slidepanel"02:35
+Radix_cheers anyway02:36
* Radix_ heads off to work.02:38
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@rizenradix, yes there will be a 7.3.21 release03:08
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perlmonkey2rizen: (Concerning the survey) Since a lot of survey's are eventually exported either into number crunchers like SPSS, or to reporting applications, could we add a way to assign user defined variable names to each question, and then an export option which would transpose the results with the columns labeled with the user defined variable names?03:56
@rizencan you do it in such a way that doesn't make the export system difficult to use?03:57
+Radix-wrkWhy not just use webgui to display the results?03:57
@rizencuz a lot of people just want to export to a spreadsheet or something03:57
perlmonkey2rizen: definetly, I'd make the user defined variable names optional and just another column in the question table, not used until the user exports as TAB TRANSPOSED or something.03:58
@rizeni'm all for making the system better03:59
@rizenso sure03:59
perlmonkey2by-the-by, the new (I guess it is new) youtube vid is pretty slick.  Nice graphics and voice over.04:00
@rizenit's actually been on our site for 6 months04:02
@rizenbut the reorg of our site brought it front and center04:02
perlmonkey2I usually look at your site from work where I'm running 64 bit fedora ie no Flash.04:02
+Radix-wrkimho it's not wow enough - it's just a powerpoint slide with a voiceover04:03
perlmonkey2For a FOSS project it's pretty frik'n major.04:03
+Radix-wrkthat said, it's better than one I could make :)04:03
@rizenwe're talking about a business productivity tool here...how wow can you get?04:04
@rizenit's not like we're doing 3d animation, or cutting off people's heads04:04
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perlmonkey2Okay, I'm an idiot, and not afraid to admit it.  On my fresh install of F7, I'm trying to creating a WebGUI instance from the svn latest.  But I'm missing jpg's and the admin bar won't appear.  I'm positive this has to do with permissions, but I've given apache the golden key to everything.04:44
perlmonkey2Is someone working on the workflow?05:06
perlmonkey2"Root cause: Unknown column 'mode' in 'where clause'"05:06
@rizenyes i made some changes to workflow05:08
@rizenyou need to run the upgrade05:08
perlmonkey2running the upgrade didn't work.  "NO UPGRADES NECESSARY".  Is there a way to force it?05:16
@rizenwhat version is your database?05:17
@rizenthis is just a dev instance right?05:17
perlmonkey2no, the database should be the latest.05:17
@rizenok then do this05:17
perlmonkey2I recreated the database after svn update05:17
@rizenmysql -e "drop database dbname; create database dbname"05:18
@rizenmysql dbname < /data/WebGUI/docs/previousVersion.sql05:18
@rizencd /data/WebGUI/sbin05:18
@rizenperl upgrade.pl05:18
perlmonkey2ic....cool, thanks.05:18
@rizenif you do that, then you'll be all good05:18
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@rizeni usually create a script to do that among other things05:19
@rizencuz i screw up my database a lot while developing05:19
@rizenyou may want to consider making one too05:19
perlmonkey2Good idea, I'll do that.05:19
@rizenif you want, i can give you my script05:20
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perlmonkey2That would be even better.05:21
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Leonany one here ?10:01
Leonis this a help channel or what ? hehe10:03
+Radix-wrkTo a certain extent.. if we can help anyway :)10:03
Leonlisten then.. maybe you can10:03
Leoni installed webgui 7.3.19 yest..10:03
Leonbut having a problem with images, and can't get the idea of what the problem can be as i tried all permisions..10:04
+Radix-wrkChecked your webgui logs?10:04
Leoncan it be a problem with spectre ?10:05
+Radix-wrkperlbot paste10:05
perlbotPaste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.10:05
+Radix-wrkpaste a copy of your webgui.log in using one of those sites and let me know the url you get.10:06
+Radix-wrkI reckon your permissions are setup wrong though at a guess10:06
+Radix-wrkyou have to ensure that the entire uploads folder is chown to nobody:nobody10:07
Leonyep nobody.nobody10:07
+Radix-wrkand what is apache set to run under?10:08
+Radix-wrkmost distro's use nobody, but perhaps it's using something different?10:08
+Radix-wrkwww or something maybe10:08
Leoni setted up apache to run as nobody.nobody10:08
Leon# User/Group: The name (or #number) of the user/group to run httpd as.10:09
Leon# It is usually good practice to create a dedicated user and group for10:09
Leon# running httpd, as with most system services.10:09
LeonUser nobody10:09
LeonGroup nobody10:09
Leoni have 2 apaches running on the same machine..10:10
+Radix-wrkand what are the permissions on that file/dir?10:10
Leonapache1 and apache210:10
+Radix-wrkon the /home/WebGUI/www/ one10:10
Leontried with 600, 666, 755, 77510:10
+Radix-wrkHmm.. wierd10:10
Leonyeah i can't get the idea of what the problem is :/10:11
Leoncan it be a problem with spectre ?10:11
+Radix-wrkno, doesn't look like it's getting that far10:11
+Radix-wrkWebGUI is trying to simply store the files on the disk, and it's failing to create the directories at all10:11
+Radix-wrkwhat distro are you using?10:12
Leonred hat enterprise 410:12
+Radix-wrkand where did you get the apache from?  yum or the cd itself?10:12
Leonand apache 2.2.410:12
Leonfrom apache's website10:13
+Radix-wrkOh.. so you compiled it yourself?10:13
+Radix-wrkAre you sure it's using the apache.conf that you think it is?10:13
Leonthe httpd.conf you mean ?10:14
Leonyeah apache1 and apache2 are running on different ip's10:14
+Radix-wrkusing two separate copies of apache?10:14
Leoncpanel only works with apache1 atm10:15
+Radix-wrkcould the webgui apache be using the httpd.conf from the other apache setup?10:15
Leonno i don't think so..10:16
Leonbecause there isn't the setup of mod_perl on the apache110:17
Leonand i have another server with same setup... i have webgui 5.2.12 on it10:17
Leonit works fine10:17
+Radix-wrkWhen you dumped the module config before from your httpd.conf - you said "<Leon> </IfModule>" at the end10:18
+Radix-wrkwhat module was that?10:19
Leon<IfModule !mpm_netware_module>10:19
Leonapache kemm with it..10:20
+Radix-wrkuser and group shouldn't need to be defined inside a ifmodule tag10:20
Leoni tried to make them outside the tag10:21
Leonbut the start10:21
* Radix-wrk applies his language parser to the above few lines and tries to make head or tail of its meaning.10:23
Leoni tried defining the user and group outside the ifmodule tag..10:24
Leonbut then apache didn't start10:24
+Radix-wrkHmm.. that's odd10:24
+Radix-wrkAny particular reason why you didn't just use the wre?10:24
Leonhmm no i don't think so..10:25
Leonwre if i have perl already installed it will skip it or ?10:25
+Radix-wrkthe WRE is complete by itself10:25
Leonso it won't clash with already installed?10:26
+Radix-wrkGood question10:26
+Radix-wrkideally no, though I know the wre mysql will be overridden if you already have one10:27
+Radix-wrkit comes with a compiled and optimised apache/modperl/modproxy setup10:27
+Radix-wrkand some very nifty scripts for adding sites, etc10:27
+Radix-wrkit's also the recommended way of installing Webgui10:27
+Radix-wrkWebGUI relies on a lot of perl scripts, and the ones in cpan aren't always the best ones to use10:28
Leonhehe.. i installed the 5.2.12 without wre and thought 7.3.19 would be something simimalr10:28
Leonwhat was that of mysql thing ?10:28
+Radix-wrkyeah, the 5.x series was a lot easier to install, webgui has grown heaps since then, but also added a lot more perl modules10:29
+Radix-wrkthe WRE makes all that so much easier to manage10:29
Leoni'll try it off..10:29
Leonit won't earase my databases right ?10:29
+Radix-wrkyikes, I should hope not :)10:30
Leoni hope so..10:30
+Radix-wrkthat said, always make a backup!10:30
Leoni'll try it off.. 10:31
Leonthanks for your help :)10:31
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Leonany one can help ?11:58
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KhaytsusI haven't tried the WRE, as I didn't want to dedicate the whole server to webgui.  I have other cgi's, php, etc, running on the box.  Perhaps there's a way to coexist or have the WRE use the existing httpd.14:07
Khaytsus(Just a statement... :)14:07
KhaytsusI wonder if 7.x has gotten more difficul to install..  6.8 wasn't too bad, but it took a heck of a lot of compiling modules (some of which would compile on their own, some I had to compile...  which was odd)14:08
pjesiKhaytsus: they are coexisting over here 14:59
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SDuensinGood morning.15:36
Khaytsuspjesi: I'll have to try it, I read it as they wouldn't.15:53
pjesimy setup is basically WRE + normal http16:09
pjesiI use the mod_proxy in the WRE to serve requests to the regualr http16:09
pjesimod_proxy on 80, mod_perl on 81, and then the distro http with whatever php and stuff on other port16:10
jdanHey, how $self->session->form->process works? I can't found 'process' subroutine. I have to view it to learn how it works.16:28
jdanDefinitely I don't know how WebGUI::Form inherit process subroutine16:31
pjesiSDuensin: you in #eclipse? :P16:43
SDuensinYep.  I'm losing a battle with it and seriously need help.16:45
pjesisorry I have not had that usecase for it16:48
SDuensinI have, and it's a serious issue.  :-(16:55
pjesiwhat are you using eclipse for?16:59
SDuensinMy ZK Desktop project.17:00
pjesiare you using Europa?17:01
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jdanSorry for my foolish question. I mistaked WebGUI::Form with WebGUI::Session::Form. Ech17:17
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wenzuanyone here ?18:56
wenzuwhat does the commit changes does in webgui ?18:57
wenzui'm used with old webgui and can't figure out how to change style in the new one18:57
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@preactionwhen you change an asset, you create a new Revision of that asset. that revision is marked as "pending" until it's committed (when it's marked as "approved")18:58
@preactionthe latest version of an approved asset is the one that appears, unless you have your own pending version (are working under your own version tag)18:59
wenzucouse before i created my own style... done it in webgui and everything.. and i was seeing it logged in.. when i logged out everything was gone..19:00
@preactionbecause you did not commit your version tag19:00
wenzuso.. i'll create a version tag..19:01
wenzudo everything, and then commit ?19:01
@preactionthey're created automatically19:01
wenzuand what things come locked ?19:02
@preactionbecause they're being edited under a different version tag19:03
wenzuah ic19:03
@preaction(incidentally, this and more is all explained in the Content Manager's Guide from Plain Black)19:03
wenzuso my main problem are the version tags19:03
wenzuah shi...19:04
wenzui was only looking at webgui.org19:04
@preactioni'm an employee at plainblack, gotta push the product (especially when it answers so many questions)19:06
wenzudidn't release how much webgui changed from my old 5.1.1219:07
wenzutotally different19:07
@rizenonce you get used to it, i think you'll find that it may be totally different, but it's totally better19:08
@preactionyeah, hopefully people start coming out from the 5.x/6.x rock19:08
wenzui'll just press commit my changes and thats all ?19:13
@preactionthe comment page will pop up and request you insert a comment, but that's optional, and then "save" and then spectre will do the commit, usually in a few seconds19:14
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wenzusorry i'm going to annoy you... 19:18
wenzui created a folder.. commited changes.. and folder isn't there19:19
@rizenis this on a custom server or on demo.webgui.org?19:20
@rizenare you sure you have spectre set up correctly?19:20
@rizenlog in to your server19:20
@rizenand type19:20
@rizencd /data/WebGUI/sbin19:20
@rizenperl spectre.pl --test19:20
@rizenspectre is the workflow governor19:21
@rizenyou can't commit changes without it19:21
wenzuah shit19:21
wenzuERROR: Spectre cannot communicate with WebGUI. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreSubnets setting in this config file:19:21
@rizen*ding* - we have a winner19:22
wenzuthis webgui is making me mad19:23
@rizendon't be mad19:23
@rizenyou have to have some faith...once you get it up and running, you're going to love 7.x19:23
@rizenand not know how you ever even survived with 5.x19:23
@rizeni quite literally hear that all the time19:24
@rizenpeople always hate 7 if they've used 519:24
@rizenbut then they get used to it19:24
@rizenand can't imagine how they ever used 519:24
wenzu5 is nice and easy :P19:24
@rizenyou say that now19:24
@rizeni'll talk to you at the beginning of august19:25
@rizenafter you've been using 7 for a bit19:25
wenzuand easy too install too :P19:25
@rizenso is webgui 719:25
@rizenif you do it following the instructions19:25
@rizenmeaning use the WRE19:25
wenzui did19:25
wenzubut now i got this error in spectre 19:25
@rizendid you answer the question about subnets correctly when you installed the WRE?19:26
wenzui guess yes19:27
@rizenedit your webgui config19:27
wenzui can't see the subnet setting in spectre.conf :/19:27
@rizenlook for spectreSubnets19:27
@rizenit's not in there it's in the webgui config19:27
@rizenmake sure it looks like19:28
wenzuah this is strange... i only have WebGUI.conf.original19:28
SDuensinwenzu - I was a huge fan of 5.x and never went to 6.  After 7 "clicks" with you, 5 looks downright primitive.  It's fantastic.19:28
SDuensin(Hi rizen)19:28
@rizen"spectreSubnets" : ["", ""],19:28
@rizenwhere is replaced with your server's IP19:28
@rizenhowdy SD19:29
wenzui only have WebGUI.conf.original19:29
wenzustrange eh ?19:29
@rizenyou should also have19:29
@rizenthat's your webgui config19:29
wenzua ok19:29
SDuensinrizen - Totally off topic, but I shipped a HUGE update to the ZK Desktop.  The new super-duper Wonder Grid CRUD tool is in!19:30
@rizenZK Desktop is only for doobie smokers and crank yankers19:30
@rizenWebGUI Desktop is where it's at19:30
@rizenthanks for the heads up SD, i'll have to get a download19:31
SDuensinYea, and on that front, I did some reading about YUI + EXT today.  Wow does that produce some awesome looking UIs.19:31
@rizenyeah YUI and Ext are amazing, they just aren't neat autogen frameworks like ZK is19:32
@rizenthey have the super flexible, powerful, and well documented API's19:32
@rizenbut it would be nice if they also had some prebuilt power tools like zk19:33
@rizeni suppose then19:33
@rizenthey couldn't be server side neutral though19:33
@rizenwhich is why they don't do it19:33
SDuensinLike I said before, my whole reason for ZK was the server-side stuff.  It's great not having to deal with the browser.19:33
wenzuits ok now..19:34
wenzuthanks rizen :)19:34
wenzuone other think..19:34
wenzucan i edit something so that when i create a new site its config will be with the right subnet ?19:35
@rizenit's /data/wre/var/hoster.arg.cache19:37
@rizenif you make it look like this then you'll be good:19:37
@rizenspectreSubnets:, \19:37
wenzuk fixed :)19:37
wenzuur the king of the swing19:38
@rizenuse 7 for a month, then i dare you to tell me you still like 5 better than 719:38
@rizeni say there's a 95% chance you won't be able to do it19:39
wenzui hope so..19:39
wenzuand is the adminbar a bit bugged or is mine a bit fu.... ?19:39
SDuensin99%   :-)19:39
wenzuah i think the "bug" was the spectre lol19:40
wenzuok this is far better now working fine :)19:41
wenzulet me take the opportunity and ask another thing that i didn't find on 5..19:42
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wenzucan i make like a page in the style lets say.. on the right hand side of the website.. and it will be updateable..19:42
wenzubot a template with the numbers like 5 was.. i want it in every page and updateable19:43
SDuensinSame thing on each page?19:43
SDuensinYou can make a shortcut of an asset and paste it elsewhere on the site.19:44
SDuensinOr include the asset in the style with a macro.19:44
wenzui'll try that19:44
wenzucheers :)19:45
wenzui'll do19:46
wenzuits surely faster eh19:47
@rizenRead the wiki about the ^AssetProxy(); macr19:48
wenzuthanks again :)19:48
wenzuvery helpfull guys19:48
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ckotilanyone hear of cosign integration into webgui?20:52
ckotilits another sso solution.20:52
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@rizeni heard it when you said it on irc last week21:00
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ckotilyah, i said we were thinking about moving to cosign21:16
ckotilwe have development cosign servers up and running.21:17
ckotilits going to be a breeze to switch everything to cosign, and since it has a kerberos backend. the change will not be very drastic, only a cosmetic change to our users.21:17
ckotilbut, so far we havent figured out an elegant solution to make a pluggable authentication module for webgui.21:18
@preactionwhat's the backend? are there command-line authorization scripts? are there Perl modules for authentication or perhaps something you can use with Inline::* modules?22:18
ckotilits perl.22:24
ckotildunno about using modules with it.22:24
@preactionif it's written in Perl it should be trivial to build an auth module against it (or at least not exceedingly difficult)22:26
@preactionthis looks like C22:30
ckotilcompiled cgi22:32
ckotilhrmm maybe the daemon IS c22:32
ckotil*3001#12345#* type this into your iPhones!22:32
ckotil'field info'22:32
ckotilaka debug mode22:32
@preactiontheoretically though wouldn't you use the cosign server to actually do the auth, and only use the WebGUI::Auth::Cosign to get a username from the cosign cookie?22:33
@preactionso you only really need to be able to read the cookie and get a webgui userId from it22:34
ckotilyeah that sounds good.22:34
ckotilpretty much how CAS sso works.22:34
@preactionunfortunately, like most code that i get to read, nobody ever documents or comments, so since i don't really know C, this is a lot of gibberish22:34
@preactionbut it looks like a cookie named "cosign" is created with two text strings separated by a / (one called "new_cookiebuf" and another called "tv.tv_sec") <- if you find out what those two things are, you can find out who's logged in and what's happening with it22:36
@preactionbut it also seems that cosign requires SSL22:37
@preactionhave you ever looked at Yadis / OpenID (or LID)? i know OpenID is written in Perl and would be easy to port to WebGUI22:39
ckotilwe have not.22:41
ckotilso the problem we're going to run into with cosign is that it pretty mcuh requires webgui to be behind mod_cosign.22:42
ckotilwhich will be  a problem.22:42
ckotiland you cannot remotley check on teh cosigns cookie.22:42
@preactioni dunno, it seems that cosign serves central auth. there must be a remote interface for apps to verify auth22:43
ckotilthey have these things called filters.22:44
ckotilwhich allow for remote checking of the cookies.22:44
ckotilbut supposedly they are a bi0tch to create.22:44
ckotili have a more pressing issue. i upgraded to red hat 5, and now when i try to execute perl preload.perl it tries to run perl5.5.8 rather than 5.8.822:45
ckotili ran into this when i first started using webgui, and i forgot how to fix it.22:46
@preactionwhat does ls -l /usr/bin/perl say? you might have to point /usr/bin/perl somewhere else22:46
ckotiland perl -v shows 5.8.822:52
ckotilmy only guess is that APR or libapreq are majorly screwed up22:53
@rizenFYI: http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/webgui/perl-developer-position#lc7UqGyASnjmvbougzs8YQ22:55
@rizenFYI: http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/web-support-and-training-specialist22:56
ckotilrizen: scroll up and type that number into your iphone.22:57
ckotilvia the phone keypad22:57
@rizenhow do i get back out of that mode?22:57
ckotilhome button.22:58
ckotilback out with the tabs.22:58
ckotilyou're not stuck there or anything.22:58
ckotilya, some witty developer can use this to triangulate your location22:59
perlmonkey2I can answer the Perl dev questions pretty easy, but I'm morally obligated to continue at my current place.23:17
perlmonkey2and '\r' are the devil.23:19
perlmonkey2But wouldn't it be cool to work, like as a job, for WebGUI?23:20
perlmonkey2document.getElementById("x").innerHTML implies x is a <div> right?23:23
perlmonkey2My JS is rusty.23:23
@preactioni'm bound by desire to keep my body parts to not help you with that one :(23:23
perlmonkey2discussing that probably defeats the purpose of it being on the job post, so I"ll go back to shutting up.23:23
diakopterperlmonkey: no, that doesn't assume x is a <div>23:44
diakopterperlmonkey2 I mean23:44
@preactiona note though: innerHTML, while supported by FF and IE (and maybe WebKit), is not W3C canon23:49
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@rizenpreaction, shouldn't you be leaving soon?23:53
@preactioni've got an hour yet, yes23:54
@preactionif the durned bank didn't have a crisis over my ability to pay (and i didn't have to come up with an additional $750) i wouldn't be 5 hours behind today... i'm going to look like someone strung me out for a week...23:54
perlmonkey21. I read up on innerhtml and while I only have exp. using it in the way I spoke, I was wrong.  2.  I'm a jackarse for even talking about it, because this is a test for interviewers, and someone reading here could unfairly pass that hurdle.23:55
--- Day changed Fri Jul 13 2007
nuba*sigh* >... US Citizen, and able to pass Federal security clearance.00:13
nubapoor us people, non-US people :/00:14
@rizenpoor plain black for not being able to hire non-us people00:17
nubayou need a sister company, which then gets contracted by plainblack ;)00:18
nubaBlackPlain LCC00:20
nubaPainBlack, "for you painfull coding needs!"00:21
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@rizeni'm afraid we still couldn't hire you00:30
@rizenfor the same reasons00:30
@rizenor at least you couldn't work on government projects00:30
@rizenwhich we have a lot of00:30
ckotilanyone know how to remove things from @INC?00:40
ckotilive got soo many paths to old perl versions00:40
ckotilbut is that permanent?00:44
ckotilid rather not have to do it for every perl applicatiotn.00:44
@rizenno idea where the permanent file is for that00:44
ckotilwell, preload.perl seems to be the only thing that complains.00:44
@rizentry perlmonks00:44
ckotilok ill just shift it out.00:44
@rizeni was kidding about shift00:45
@rizeni don't know if that will work or not00:45
ckotilget this. my ihone had the shittiest battery out of all the iphones ive seen. theres 6 of them in my office.00:45
@rizenyou're just lucky i guess00:45
ckotili haev a loaner from apple while mine is in the shop. its going on 3 days straight with the factory charge.00:46
@rizenbtw...are you ready to check in those triggers?00:46
ckotili want to keep this phone...00:46
ckotilsort of.00:46
ckotilhalf anyway00:46
ckotilill get you them tonight.00:46
ckotilsorry for slacking.00:48
ckotilheading home now.00:48
perlmonkey2ckotil: I think you have to recompile and the consensus on #perl appears to agree.00:51
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@khenndiakopter:  send me a PM on IM:  FRANKLD7503:01
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wenzuwhy is webgui showing wrong time ?11:31
+Radix-wrkyour user profile has a timezone setting11:45
+Radix-wrkif you want to change the default timezone, then change the visitor account's timezone in their profile and all new users will then get that as the default11:46
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+perlDreamerIs there an SQL query that will tell you the name of the database that you're working on?19:24
@preactionthat's a good question, might want to pop over to #mysql and see if they know (because i don't)19:25
+perlDreamerbut preaction, you're my javascript/SQL/webtech goto guy... :)19:26
@preactionthere are limits to even my knowledge :(19:26
+perlDreamerhow did your talk go last night?19:26
@preactionmy greatness lies in knowing those limits19:26
@preactionimho, C-19:26
@preactioni presented the data, i was woefully under-prepared, i had half the amount of materiel i should have had19:26
@preactioni did feel and work with the audience better than i anticipated19:27
@preactionand being my first presentation like that in about 3 years has rekindled all that knowledge from before when i could actually go up in front of people and move them19:28
@preactionso if i start now, i should have some good presentations for the WUC19:28
+perlDreamerthat's actually some good motivation for me to get started, too19:28
@preactionalso, this presentation was a lot of examples / hands-on sort of things (since perl one-liners is so easy to give examples for)19:29
@preactionthe YUI talk i'm giving i can provide examples, but the splitting webgui sites one would be unlikely (which reminds me that's still theoretical, i haven't proven it works yet), and the upgrading webgui i can't really show examples of (since it might take time i don't have to waste)19:30
+perlDreamerDamian Conway has some modules that mockup real time displays of code executing.19:31
+perlDreamerThat might help19:31
@preactionlike as it runs the code it prints out the code that's running?19:32
+perlDreamerLike, it just spews out whatever you want so that you don't have to worry about delays or mistakes in realtime demos19:32
@preactionah, so basically faking real scripts19:33
@preactionwhat is maintenance mode again? isn't it a special apache instance that runs in place of modperl while modperl is doing the upgrade tasks?19:36
+perlDreamerNo, it throws up a splash screen and prevents db access.19:36
+perlDreamerCheck out WebGUI.pm19:36
+perlDreamerprecation: SELECT DATABASE()19:41
+perlDreamerthat probably only works in MySQL, though.19:43
@preactionthere's a lot of stuff webgui does that only works in mysql now19:47
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@rizenpd: if it's for the core, then it's ok if it only works in mysql19:55
@rizenif it's supposed to work with the Database Link, then it has to be generic19:55
+perlDreamerIt's for a test against the DSN from the webgui config file19:55
@rizenfor example, if it's for SQL Report19:55
@rizenthen it has to be generic19:55
@rizenthat can be mysql specific19:55
+perlDreamerThe big goal is the fixing of the SQLForm privileges bug19:57
@preactionto prevent messing with the WebGUI database? or just to give them a stern warning that they can (and probably will) screw up their system?19:57
@rizenSQLForm is mysql only19:57
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perlmonkey2quiet here today.21:13
@preactionit's so quiet i can't hear myself think!21:27
SDuensinNice.  The installation docs I'm writing have a link to the IMDB entry for "Aliens".  How many enterprise software projects can claim that?21:36
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perlmonkey2SDuensin: I think that needs an explanation (the aliens link).22:15
SDuensinThe docs say that if you already have some of the tools installed and you just tweak them instead of following my instructions that the best thing to do is "...take off and nuke the site from orbit.  It's the only way to be sure."22:20
SDuensinI also have a section on the Care and Feeding of Your New IDE.22:20
@rizenawaycare and feeding of your SD22:20
SDuensinHey!  You're supposed to be away!22:21
@rizenawayi'm here for 5 min22:21
SDuensinOh yea.  Sure.  Just long enough to harass people.  :-P22:21
SDuensinHey, my boss in the next office is working with WebGUI.  She's loving it.  :-D22:21
@rizenawaybah...she'd like it better if she had webgui desktop22:47
SDuensinWell, she DOES love ZK Desktop.  :-P22:48
perlmonkey2WebGUI is going to be ported to ZKDesktop?23:38
SDuensinI wish.23:42
SDuensinrizenaway and I were talking about writing *another* desktop for it that doesn't rely on Java and Tomcat.23:43
perlmonkey2Should wait for Perl 623:45
SDuensinCould be a long wait.23:45
@preactionwhich has turned into vaporware?23:45
@preactionwill it be released before Duke Nukem Forever?23:46
perlmonkey2I thought it was on schedule for December.23:46
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@preactionyou mean "before christmas"?23:47
@preactionbefore christmas seems to be the Perl world's way of saying "you'll get it when you get it"23:48
SDuensinHe didn't say WHICH December.23:49
SDuensinUt oh.  The new server I just ordered is 64 bit Linux.  Time to rebuild the WRE.  <sigh>23:51
diakopterperlmonkey2: you can help with Perl 6, if you want.23:51
* SDuensin wants Parrot. And things to run on it, of course.23:51
perlmonkey2diakopter: First I have a WebGUI project I need to finish.23:52
perlmonkey2diakopter: And I still have a 60 hour work week at work until next Wednesday.23:53
diakopterperlmonkey2: whee!23:53
perlmonkey2diakopter: How do you manage to have time to do FOSS and work a job?23:59
--- Day changed Sat Jul 14 2007
SDuensinGotta get 'em to play together.  My job let me release ZK Desktop as FOSS, so I get paid to maintain it.00:00
@preactiondedication and lack of a social life, like the rest of us00:00
diakopterperlmonkey2: heh :P ... I don't *do* FOSS, truly.  I just help do admin junk.  like keep out the spammers from #perl6.  or buying domain names.  or doing other enabling stuff.00:01
diakopterpreaction++ # those too.00:01
perlmonkey2diakopter: That sounds like something even a monkey could do......a perlmonkey00:02
diakopterwell sure00:02
diakopterthere are plenty of tasks like that that still need attention.00:02
diakopteradmin junk is never ending.00:02
perlmonkey2well, I have a 7.27 deadline for the 7.4 release, so I'll talk to you about it after then.00:03
diakopterperlmonkey2: get off irc and finish your wG project! :P00:03
perlmonkey2diakopter: No, I document until 5, then finish wG.00:03
perlmonkey2and irc is much more fun then documentation.00:04
* diakopter is readying a wG(svn-latest) install for a site that literally 25 domain names (will) point to. including perl6.com and perlsix.com, and tons of variants.00:05
perlmonkey2operator's manual, installiation manual, trouble shooting guide, QA'ing the code comments.  A one man shop means one man gets to do all the crud work too.00:05
perlmonkey225 virtual hosts?00:05
@preactionmay want to avoid svn-latest, there are lots of untested features there (even though those features are awesomecore)00:05
diakopteryes, but all redirecting (or rewriteruleing, haven't decided) to various paths within the main site.00:07
diakopterpreaction: I can handle it.00:07
diakopterif i find a bug, I'll nopaste a patch here.00:07
@preactionor buglist (someone may not be here to get your patch)00:08
SDuensinOutta here!   Headed home.  Later!00:08
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diakopternow... others may veto the use of wG for these sites... ;) and demand a more CPAN-ish web application platform, but whatever; I'm setting it up anyway for now.00:12
diakopteroh, that reminds me, I'll need to make a custom auth method that uses Apache2 htpasswd lists... unless someone has already contributed one.00:15
diakopterer, I take that back, the credentials are also in a sqlite3 db00:16
diakopterthat's easier.00:16
@preactioni don't believe i've seen one, but the htpasswd list would be a nice addition (the auth system is kinda ugly atm, i'm trying to fix a bug in it right now)00:16
diakopterpreaction: which bug00:17
@preactionthere's a bug where deactiveAccountConfirm returns a WebGUI::User object (instead of the login form)00:18
@preactioni would assume if i explicitly return undef; from that sub in WebGUI::Auth, it would work00:18
@preactionbut i'm trying to make a nice message saying "username has been deactivated."00:18
@preactionbut it seems that calling $self->displayLogin would require me to know things about the subclasses, which is impossible00:19
@preactionexample: the WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI->displayLogin has no arguments (while WebGUI::Auth->displayLogin has method, and vars arguments)00:19
@preactioni lied, wG::Auth::WebGUI has one argument, the method00:20
@preactionno wait, it's the message itself00:20
@preactiongod... not documented...00:20
@preactionthe problem being is this the same prototype as Auth::LDAP? or Auth::MyCompany?00:21
@preactionworse: if i change it, what API will i break?00:22
diakopterpreaction: have you yourself seen the error message in question that results from deactivateAccountConfirm returning a WebGUI::User object?  or only user-reported?00:27
@preactioni've seen it00:28
@preactionit shows: WebGUI::User(0xblah)00:28
diakopterwhen you deactivated yourself, or some other user.00:28
diakopteroh... patch forthcoming.00:28
@preactionk, seems simple enough00:44
diakopterwell, er00:44
diakopterforgot about the api difference there00:44
diakopterinsert 'login', after displayLogin( :D00:44
@preactionyeah, i'm thinking it won't work just yet to have that message00:44
@preactionbecause using an explicit "login" doesn't allow for other auth subclasses to specify different login methods, and calling $self->displayLogin goes first to that subclass which (the WebGUI Auth one for example) has a different prototype than the Auth.pm superclass00:45
@preactionso it would require fixing the API, which afaik i can't do until the API unfreeze00:46
diakopterokay, then this: http://rafb.net/p/ZfYzLE81.html00:47
@preactionthat plus an explicit return undef in the Auth.pm should do it00:49
diakoptershouldn't need to change anything in the Auth.pm:deactivateAccountConfirm()00:49
diakoptersince none of its callers care what it returns00:50
diakopteror, shouldn't at least.00:50
@preactionif they don't care, then they won't care that i explicitly return undef instead of returning the webgui user object00:50
diakoptertrue :D00:50
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diakopteranyone around?09:25
diakopteranyone around with svn commit?09:25
diakopterk; I'll post the patch tomorrow.09:26
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perlmonkey2the hoverHelp property of Wobjects now takes a template id instead of plain text?18:05
perlmonkey2Bah, duh, no. 18:07
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perlmonkey2So I've never designed webpages in Linux before (I've always had access to Dreamweaver).  If you use *nix only, what's your favorite HTML designer tool?19:04
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perlmonkey2Can someone point me at an ajaxified wobject?20:14
@rizen-in-outnone of them use YUI yet, that's why we decided to standardize...cuz they were all using their own stuff....but20:20
@rizen-in-outProject Management20:20
@rizen-in-outTime Tracker20:20
perlmonkey2rizen-in-out: Looks like your AJAX code is kept in extras.  Should I just throw the complete YUI into extras?20:43
@rizen-in-outit is20:43
perlmonkey2I see it :)20:43
perlmonkey2For the survey, I a survey admin selects that the survey/quiz is a multi-session, I'm going to add a choice of length of time from start and also a hard datestamp, at which point the user will no longer be able to complete the survey/quiz.  Sound reasonable?20:50
perlmonkey2Put that logic into "response.isComplete"20:51
perlmonkey2s/ I / if /20:53
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+perlDreamerAnyone home?22:47
perlmonkey2kind of22:55
+perlDreamerBy chance, do you have any idea what an Oracle DSN for the DBI would look like?22:55
perlmonkey2mocking up the pages and JS for the ajax survey before I port them to WebGUI.22:55
@preactioniirc oracle can use the ODBC driver, but otherwise i don't think oracle has a working DBD anymore22:56
perlmonkey2hmm.....I would have to fire up my XP box which has my backups from an old job where I connected to Oracle.  But I think it was very similiar.22:56
+perlDreamerI'm moving some of the functionality out of the SQL Form into the DatabaseLink.22:57
+perlDreamerThings like finding the database name from the DSN and determining privileges.22:57
+perlDreamerThat way they can be tested and kept track of.22:57
+perlDreamerpreaction: thanks22:57
perlmonkey2oracle uses a normal dsn with "Oracle" as the driver name.  so 'dbi:Oracle:database=db;host=localhost;port=666',uid,pwd23:00
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2: many thanks23:00
perlmonkey2Which requires DBD::Oracle, which preaction says is flaky?23:02
@preactioni don't know23:02
+perlDreamerI think he said unmaintained.23:02
@preactioni don't know why Frank needed to use Java instead of Perl for this migration we had to do before23:02
@preactionperhaps it's just non-free23:03
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perlmonkey2Someone how my www.host.com.conf has been converted into a JSON format.  Anyway to revert it?23:17
SDuensinNo idea dude.  :-(23:18
SDuensinGot my own issues here.23:18
* SDuensin is trying to build the WRE on RHEL x64.23:18
@preactionperlmonkey2: it's supposed to be JSON23:20
@preactionstarting, i want to say, with 6.9923:21
perlmonkey2preaction: So after initial configuration, it is converted to JSON.  Cool. 23:23
perlmonkey2SDuensin: Wow.  That doesn't sound like fun at all.  apreqlib?23:23
SDuensinI have no idea.  Fails building perl.  I think my libs are in the wrong place.  Complains about all the math functions.23:24
@preactionperlmonkey2: no, new installs of 6.99-7.x should come with JSON config files. or are we not talking about the WebGUI config file?23:24
perlmonkey2I think you misspelled "building perl" which should better be spelled "Fails because for some crazy reason I'm doing a full rebuild of Perl when RHEL comes with 5.8.8".23:24
@preactionperlmonkey2: the WRE comes with its own Perl, its own everything23:25
SDuensinperlmonkey2 - Trying to build the WRE.23:25
perlmonkey2preaction: We are.  and I'm just retarded.  The comments in the webgui.conf.example through me off.  I'm just not used to seeing JSON outside of javascript.23:25
perlmonkey2SDuensin: you have my most sincere sympathies.23:26
@preactionthe idea being you can just install the bare minimum system, download the WRE, get GNU make and GCC and you can compile a working WebGUI system23:26
SDuensinpreaction - That's a great theory.  :-P23:26
@preactionit's probably complaining about the math libs because they're all 64bit, you may have to point Perl to the correct place for your 32-bit compatibility libs23:27
SDuensinGreek, dude.  This is the first 64 bit box I've worked with.23:29
@preaction64bit boxes have the 32bit libraries installed along with a translation layer for the kernel, somewhere on your system are those libraries23:30
@preactioneither that or you have to find a 64bit perl23:30
@preactionit's greek to me too, i don't know thing one about compiling programs and finding dependancies23:30
SDuensinHow does the WRE know which one it's building?23:30
@preactionthere are flags to GCC in the build.sh script23:30
SDuensinYea.  I was poking around in there.23:31
* perlmonkey2 stabs spectre in the neck. Why won't you stop dieing and write to webgui.log23:37
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diakoptertestEnvironment.pl is missing HTML::TagCloud03:23
diakopterer, no it's not03:24
* perlmonkey2 ponders what in WebGUI could use HTML::TagCloud.03:37
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+Radix_the wiki?04:24
perlmonkey2Keyword.pm is the only package that uses HTML::TagCloud it appears.04:25
perlmonkey2Ah, create and modify keywords used by the asset system.  04:27
@preactionnew feature that currently is used by the wiki, but may be adapted to other assets (like CS posts)04:30
perlmonkey2rizen-in-out: I have a q about the survey.  I'm going with the flowchart option, but have started poking about the line drawing for connecting nodes.  Putting in some logic to make the lines curve around other questions/answers would be a bit tricky.  So for now, I'll have the lines draw straight over anything in the way and let the user drag things around to keep the flowchart clean. 04:31
perlmonkey2Also, for now, it might appear a bit chunky.  Each q will be a draggable div, but contain a table with the q on top, and answers stacked in rows below.  The user will be able to select an answer and drag it to another question, which will cause a line to be drawn between that answer and question (the answer div will snap back to the original question).04:33
perlmonkey2The flowchart will grow to the right, with forks going vertical (down), although the user will be able to drag them wherever they want.  Answers will default a connection to the next question id, or none at all.  04:35
perlmonkey2Since the flowcharts will quickly cause the screen to scroll, adding q&a's will be done with right click context menus.  Deleting nodes will be done with double click, and will orphan children.04:36
perlmonkey2right click context menus will bring up a dialog with all the options.  04:37
perlmonkey2At least that's how I'm going to prototype the system unless you say otherwise ;)04:38
perlmonkey2I'm just trying to cram in all the functionality for 7.4 and make it pretty, smooth and sexy for 7.4.104:42
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@rizen-in-outi trust you to do the right thing06:51
@rizen-in-outeverything sounds fine to me so far06:51
SDuensinHey rizen-in-out 07:00
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perlmonkey2cool.  I'm outy for the night.07:13
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@rizen-in-outdiakopter r u here?19:45
perlmonkey2Whatever happened to snapcount?20:29
@rizen-in-outhe's still around from time to time20:31
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l-e-o-nanyone here ?11:51
l-e-o-nwhere does webgui creates the "virtualhosts" for apache ?11:57
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AMH_bobl-e-o-n shows little patience13:08
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+Radix_aye, that he does.13:26
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AMH_bobGood morning! (You beat me to it)15:45
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@rizen-in-outAMH_bob's speech pattern this morning reads deceptively similar to that of optimus prime16:44
AMH_bobjust a co-inkydinky, I haven't seen it yet :D17:01
@rizen-in-outyou should...very cool17:05
pjesiI have to write some CRUD pages for an external db, should I start with some of the SQL assets or perhaps just do it in perl as a new asset?17:10
@rizen-in-outdepends on what you need17:12
@rizen-in-outSQLForm is pretty good for most CRUD duty17:12
@rizen-in-outbut it's not highly templatable17:12
pjesiok so if layout is not a big concern then SQLForm is the way to go, if I need pretty pages then a custom asset?17:13
pjesiok thanks for the advice17:13
@rizen-in-outalso if you need something complex that the SQL Form doesn't handle17:13
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pjesiI doubt that is going to be the case here :)17:14
@rizenanybody around that wants to help with a bit of javascript debugging?17:44
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AMH_bobfor which part do you need help....18:02
AMH_bob(AMH_henry wanted to know more... we're tempted to help)18:03
AMH_bob@rizen: ?18:03
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diakopterrizen: yay; javascript debuggin18:08
@rizensorry was on the phone18:10
@rizenok if you check out the latest from svn head18:11
@rizenthere is a folder called www/extras/styleDesigner/18:11
@rizenthen point your browser to the example.html page in that folder18:12
@rizenthe problem is that IE doesn't appear to like the color picker18:12
@rizenit's not popping it up18:12
@rizenand it's not throwing an error18:12
AMH_bobSorry, we don't support IE18:12
@rizeni wish i didn't have to either18:12
@rizenbut this is going in the core18:12
AMH_henryI'll take a look at it when i get home (in about ten minutes ;)18:13
AMH_bobok, than I'm off too, bye!18:13
@rizenthanks guys18:14
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diakopterrizen: IE6 throws an error for me...18:28
@rizenreally, can you put it in a pastepin?18:29
@rizenpastebin and link it?18:29
diakopterbut I'd rather fix it real quick first and nopaste a patch ;)18:29
@rizenjust check in your patch18:30
diakopterthe only helpful info it says is: WebguiColorPicker is undefined18:30
@rizenwhy don't i get that damn error?18:30
@rizeni'm using IE6 as well18:30
diakopterthe yellow exclamation point in the bottom left of the status bar?18:32
@rizenno, nothing18:32
diakopterhrm; *shrugs*18:32
@rizenthe other thing that's boggling me is that firefox and safari work just fine18:33
@rizenso this has to be an IE only problem18:33
diakopteroh, I see the problem18:34
diakopterhang on18:34
diakopterfancy JS here... ;)18:35
diakoptercurrying and so forth18:35
@rizeni'm trying to follow Yahoo!'s design guidelines for javascript by doing encapsulated objects and whatnot18:37
@rizeni figure they know 10,000 times what i do about javascript so i should follow them18:38
@rizenok so the problem appears to be with the color picker code rather than the style designer18:40
@rizencuz the color picker doesn't pop anywhere in webgui when using IE18:40
@rizensorry, i didn't check that before cuz i thought i tested it in IE when I put the new color picker into the system18:42
@rizeni guess i didn't test IE though since it's obviously not working18:42
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diakopterwell no, the reason it's not working there is you didn't change webguiColorPicker to WebguiColorPicker everywhere18:47
@rizenthen how come it works in firefox and safari?18:47
@rizenare they case insensitive?18:48
diakopterwell, a reason.18:48
@rizenin addition18:48
@rizenif i grep for the lower case version18:48
@rizenit doesn't exist18:48
@rizenso where didn't i change it?18:48
diakopterrizen: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/checkout/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/Color.pm18:50
@rizenthat's actually changed too18:50
@rizenjust not checked in yet18:50
diakopteroh; heh :)18:50
@rizenbut you don't need to test there18:50
@rizenjust use example.html18:50
@rizenin the colorpicker folder18:50
@rizenit doesn't work in IE18:50
@rizenand throws no errors18:50
@rizeni should have mentioned i've only checked in what i needed to to show you this problem18:52
@rizenmethinks that IE isn't even parsing colorpicker.js18:55
@rizenif you just put a window.alert() at the top of the file it doesn't even pop up18:55
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@rizenfound one problem18:59
@rizenchecked in19:00
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@rizenok, now that the comma that was causing it not to load the js file is gone19:09
@rizeni'm able to execute the init() method19:09
@rizenbut the display method doesn't do anything19:09
@rizennever even gets called19:09
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@rizenok, i've narrowed it down a bit further and have discovered that IE dies in the display method at ddPicker = Dom.get("ddPicker");19:32
+crythiasyou can pick your nose...19:33
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@rizenwell that's ****ed up19:39
@rizenif i change the variable so it doesn't have the same name as the div id, then the picker shows up19:39
diakopterahhhhhh; silly IE and its aliasing global JS variables to each DOM node id.19:57
diakoptergood find...19:57
@rizenare you kidding me?19:58
@rizenthat's a "feature"19:58
@rizeni still have one problem left though19:58
@rizenin IE, the color shader doesn't work on the picker19:59
@rizenit's just always grey, which is the background image19:59
@rizenactually i think i know what that is too20:01
diakopterdunno how you did it, but  I did  if (YAHOO.util.Event.isIE) {20:08
@rizeni did if (navigator.appName == 'Microsoft Internet Explorer') {20:09
@rizenbut I'll change it to that20:09
diakopteroo oo 20:17
diakopter(found it.. committing)20:17
diakopteraw drat, you beat me to it, yet agin.  still you should wrap the correctPNG() call in that isIE conditional.20:19
@rizeni put the wrapper in the correctPNG call instead20:21
@rizenthat way it's only done if it's IE no matter where you call correctPNG from20:21
@rizenthinking of future scenarios20:21
diakopteroh; i missed that diff20:21
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@rizenin CSS i can do  .navigation A { color: orange; }22:09
@rizenhow do i accomplish the same thing using javascript22:10
preaction_assuming you know where .navigation is22:11
preaction_i believe Yui has a getElementsByClassName you can use22:12
@rizenso lets say it was #navigation instead22:12
SDuensinHey gang.  Dang, what a morning.22:12
@rizenthen loop over the list22:12
preaction_so that'd be a loop over document.getElementById("navigation").getElementsByTagName("a")22:12
@rizenand apply the style?22:12
preaction_should work22:12
@rizeni'll give that a try22:13
@rizeni was hoping there would be a nice shortcut22:13
@rizenbut i guess this isn't too bad22:13
@rizenok one more22:16
@rizenwhat about22:16
@rizen#navigation A:visited22:16
@rizenwould that just be:22:17
@rizencrap...your loop idea doesn't work22:20
@rizenthat's what i have22:20
@rizenany other ideas?22:20
@rizenalso "this.value" comes from a case statement that this thing is inside of22:20
@rizenand when i say it doesn't work i mean that the color doesn't get set, and no error is thrown22:21
@rizendamn i'm an idiot 22:35
@rizenalso..damn javascript sux22:35
@rizenit should have thrown an error22:35
preaction_i love that FF allows trailing commas but IE barfs on them, usually with no error22:37
@rizenhad that problem this morning22:37
@rizenfirefox, safari, and opera all did the right thing22:37
@rizenie of course didn't22:37
preaction_there is an MS script debugger for JS, but it's rather... difficult22:38
preaction_works in IE7 that i know, i think it works in IE6 as well22:38
@rizenyeah and you need to know MS Office to get it22:41
preaction_really? i've got it and use it, even considering how much it sucks22:42
@rizenit's supposedly on the MS Office CD22:42
@rizeni couldn't find a download for it anywhere22:42
diakopteror for those who don't want to validate their Windows license: http://download.microsoft.com/download/winscript56/Install/1.0a/NT45XP/EN-US/scd10en.exe22:44
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+perlDreamerOn the Contrib's page, the PBWG icon still points to Radix_, but the Ad Space pulls up Yung.23:33
@rizenthat image wasn't even supposed to be there anymore23:35
+perlDreamerrizen: have you decided if you're coming out to OSCON to pick up your sourceforge award or not?23:37
@rizenwe haven't won it yet23:38
+perlDreamereh, it's just a matter of time23:39
@rizenregardless though, i can't actually come out...i have a client upgrade to do that weekend23:39
* diakopter is attending Oscon23:39
@rizenmethinks that 2006 WebGUI Contributor of the Year should accept the award on our behalf23:39
+perlDreamerMartin is coming to OSCON?23:40
@rizenhehe...no silly23:40
+perlDreamerIf he's not going to be there, I guess I could do it.23:41
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--- Day changed Tue Jul 17 2007
* perlDreamer makes a note not to wear t-shirt and gym shorts on Tuesday00:10
@rizenhave to introduce them as fast as you fix them so we're not out of balance00:13
+perlDreamerI'm hoping that there's a limiting factor to my theory.00:14
+perlDreamerFixing them slowly may allow the balance point to be reset.00:14
@rizenfrom now on also tell me how hard the bug was for you to fix, so i can introduce one that's equally hard00:14
+perlDreamerJust stuff in anything JS related.  That will be hard enough.00:15
@rizeni've been fixing JS bugs in my new code all day so that you wouldn't have to fix them00:15
@rizeni guess i should have left them in00:15
+perlDreamerWhen do the plainblack.com bugs get fixed? ;)00:16
@rizenas someone gets to them00:18
@rizengenerally as they come in i assign them either to myself or someone else00:18
@rizensometimes they'll fall through the cracks as we work on other projects00:19
@rizenregardless though, graham is supposed to be fixing bugs every day00:19
@rizenHaarg....are you here?00:19
@rizenif not, why not?00:19
+perlDreamerThere are at least two easy bugs to close on the boards00:20
+perlDreamerwhich is content chunking, not a bug00:20
@Haargyeah, i'm here00:20
+perlDreamerwhich is "tough stuff it doesn't work"00:20
@rizenplease note what colin is saying and make them a priority to close out some bugs00:20
@rizenpd, until you mentioned it today, i didn't think anybody was even reading the black blog00:25
+perlDreamerHave do the logs say?00:30
diakopterI've read every entry...00:30
diakopterbut that's why I spoke up just now.  getLineage isn't working worth beans on this wG (svn trunk) installation.00:31
diakopterthat's not why, I mean.  <sigh>00:31
+perlDreamerDoes the test pass?00:32
diakoptergood q00:32
+perlDreameractually, just do a prove -r Asset00:32
+perlDreamerrun them all!00:32
+perlDreamerI think Lineage has been static for a while00:32
diakopterhmm; gotta come up with a non-destructive WEBGUI_CONFIG00:33
preaction_i changed some of it in 7.3.0, but other than that i think lineage hasn't changed much00:33
diakopteror are the tests non destructive?00:33
+perlDreamerThe tests are not non-destructive.00:33
preaction_the tests are supposed to be non-destructive00:33
+perlDreamerSo you have two options00:33
+perlDreamer1) Dump, test, restore00:33
diakopterdump it is00:33
+perlDreamer2) Create a disposable database00:33
+perlDreamerand site uploads area00:33
diakopterick ick ick ;)00:34
+perlDreamerWe could make that a goal for OSCON00:34
+perlDreamerCompletely non-destructive tests00:34
+perlDreamerIt shouldn't be that hard to achieve00:34
diakopteralthough I suppose option 2 is rather more one-time than the other.00:34
+perlDreamerIt's what I do, along with the old "resetdev" script00:35
diakopterI wish Test.pm would just prompt for mysql root password, and create its own temp dirs and temp db, importing create.sql etc.00:35
preaction_http://webgui.org/user_contributions/user_contributions/miscellaneous/switch_webgui_pl----switch-between-webgui-source-directories <- this is what i do. let me upload my latest fixes to it00:36
+perlDreamerdiakopter, that's a great idea, but it would prompt on EVERY test.  Need to use Test::Class or something similar.00:37
+perlDreamerMaybe a create test sandbox script?00:37
diakopterpreaction_: thanks00:37
+crythiasor maybe just read the configs from mytest.inc.php00:38
+crythiasoh. um. oops00:38
diakoptercrythias: boo-yuh00:39
+perlDreamerafk for 1500:39
+crythiasI meant. mysql-test.conf00:39
preaction_done, now it enables/disables both the modperl and modproxy entries of the WRE. it's configurable enough to allow for almost any Apache+WebGUI combination00:41
preaction_it's kinda ugly code, i know. I should be using File::Spec00:41
preaction_but all you do is switch to the WebGUI you want to use, and use the WRE's addsite script to add a site to that webgui. then whenever you switch, the script will enable/disable the sites that are configured with that version of the webgui source00:43
diakopterEnviroment variable WEBGUI_CONFIG must be set.00:43
diakopterEnviro      ment00:43
+crythiaskewl. does that come in sugar free?00:46
+crythiasdouble your pleasure... double your fun.. with rizen's... enviroment gum.00:47
diakopterperlDreamer: nope, AssetLineage DIED. FAILED tests 3, 37, 39, 44, 46, 48, 50, 55-56, 58, 68-7200:48
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diakopterthe rest of Asset* tests seem okay, except AssetPackage failed tests 3-7.00:50
+perlDreamerlet me do an update00:51
diakopternote that this is stock create.sql, upgraded from 7.3.20svn to 7.4svn00:52
+perlDreamerMy test run is clean00:53
* diakopter tries prove verbose00:53
+perlDreamerwhat does testEnvironment.pl --simpleReport say?00:53
diakopterall OKs00:54
+perlDreamermy setup is the same as yours00:54
diakopterwhy would any of that be messed up?  The site generally works.  But no children are ever shown on Layouts, and manageAssets' crumbtrail and child listing are always blank.00:55
diakopterMySQL 5.0.41a-1 (debian)00:56
+perlDreamerthat may be the problem right there00:56
+perlDreamerI've seen bugs posted about using mysql's biggen than 5.0.3200:56
+perlDreamermaybe it was on the boards...00:57
@Haargit's a mysql bug00:58
diakopterHaarg: thanks.00:58
+perlDreamerIs it easy for you to downgrade, diakopter?00:58
+perlDreamerHaarg, does that mean that 5.0.42 and above will be okay?00:59
diakoptereh, maybe.  the whole machine is Debian Sid.  Lemme see what's in the package pipeline...00:59
diakopterwell, there's 5.1.19beta-1 in debian/experimental, released Jun 1101:01
+perlDreamerWe have an easy way to validate it now, via the test suite.01:02
diakopterand 5.1.19 upstream does include that patch.... supposedly...01:03
+perlDreamerInstall it then run prove across the whole test suite.  Make sure that CODE_COP=0 and it should take about 15 minutes to check everything.01:04
diakoptersir yes sir01:09
diakopterI wonder if the 60 other users/admins of this machine will mind...01:09
+perlDreamerthis is on feather?01:09
diakopterwell now that's weird.01:10
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+perlDreamerAnyone happen to know the URl for the ImageMagick API docs?01:13
@rizenpd, how are you coming with removing the aux help files in 7.401:23
@rizentwo weeks left until release01:23
+perlDreamerDo you know when the files were last updated in the wiki, approximately?01:24
+perlDreamerThat way I can track down any changes that need to be moved before they're lost.01:24
+perlDreamerbtw. YUI does not play well with SeaMonkey01:25
+perlDreamerSeaMonkey 1.0.3 on RHEL 4 64-bit01:26
@rizenwhat is seamonkey?01:29
+perlDreamerMozilla "abandoned" mozilla, so someone picked it up and started calling it seamonkey01:29
+perlDreamerIt's the old integrated suite, instead of being busted up like Firefox, thunderbird, sunbird, etc.01:30
+perlDreamerAnd we're pulling everything but hoverHelp, template variables and...01:31
@rizenhoverhelp and template variables stay01:32
@rizenall other pages go01:32
@rizenif seamonkey is based on firefox then it should work fine...regardless webgui only supports what yahoo calls A class browsers01:33
+perlDreamerSo the add/edit article page goes, but the hoverHelp behind it stays?01:34
+perlDreamerand the Macro pages should be stripped down to template variables ony01:34
@rizenon both counts01:34
+perlDreamerThe autogenerated lists of assets, macros, workflow activities, template parsers also go01:36
* perlDreamer whips out his vorpal vim editor01:37
@rizeni guess you could leave the page that shows what macros are enabled or whatever01:37
@rizenbut the actual description pages should no longer be there01:37
+perlDreamerOkay, so no linking inside of there.01:37
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+perlDreamerrizen: I'm going to change the name on all the Macro pages that remain to Macro Template Variables, just to be clear01:48
+perlDreamersound okay?01:48
+perlDreamerIf all Help content is either HoverHelp or template variables, we don't need the body tag anymore.01:51
+perlDreamerBut existing docs for custom software may use it, so probably better to leave it in01:59
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* diakopter still downloads mysql5.1.19beta02:39
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@preactioni have a healthy respect for whomever wrote the Navigation asset... I've just basically re-implemented the same tree-building algorithm in my client project...04:13
@preactionthe varying ways to represent these things... JS and HTML both require a completely different set of instructions on how to re-create the tree from a flat array...04:13
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diakopteryes, upgrading to mysql-server-5.1.19beta-1 fixed http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/mysql-5.0.4106:47
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 17 09:55:58 2007
--- Log opened Tue Jul 17 09:56:02 2007
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AMH_bobGood morning!16:09
SDuensinHey AMH_bob 16:10
AMH_bobHi Scott!16:11
@rizenhowdy peeps16:16
SDuensinHey rizen 16:18
SDuensinrizen, you know of anyone using the WRE on RHEL4 x64?16:20
diakopterrizen: I don't see a reference to mod_header(s?) in svn's /wrebuild - was it removed from the mod_proxy.conf at some point?16:25
diakopterhum; I'll keep looking16:25
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l-e-o-nanyone here ?17:12
SDuensinNope.  Nobody at all.17:17
l-e-o-nah ok then... lol17:17
l-e-o-nu can help me ?17:17
SDuensinProbably not, but I'll try!17:18
l-e-o-ni've installed webgui 7.3.20 wre.. and i had another apache instance running.. but the apache of webgui is on top of it and can't start my other apache17:19
diakopterl-e-o-n: then what's your question17:20
l-e-o-nhow can i bind webgui apache to run on an ip17:20
l-e-o-nso i'll bind the other apache on another ip17:20
l-e-o-ncause it's ignoring anything from its httpd.conf17:21
SDuensinIt uses modproxy.conf and modperl.conf.17:21
SDuensin(Or something close to that.)17:21
* diakopter continues to fight with mysql 5.1.19 on debian sid and DBD::mysql17:23
* SDuensin is fighting with WRE on RHEL x64.17:23
l-e-o-ncan't find any ip's binded on modproxy and modperl17:23
* SDuensin is losing badly.17:23
l-e-o-ni'm fighting with wre on rhel too but to bind it to an ip grr17:24
diakopterfun!  Couldn't call method deleteList on asset for url: home Root cause: Transactions not supported by database at /usr/lib/perl5/DBI.pm line 1665.17:24
SDuensinl-e-o-n, look in /data/wre/prereqs/apache/conf17:24
SDuensinIt has http.modproxy.conf and http.modperl.conf in it.17:25
SDuensinFind the "Listen" line in those files.17:25
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chatito28good morning i am new using webgui and i am trying to get a calendar working can anybody help?17:26
diakopterwhee; that fixed it.  (apt-get install libmysqlclient15off=5.1.19beta-1   and then cpan force install DBD::mysql)17:27
SDuensinchatito28 - I've not used that asset, sorry.17:27
SDuensindiakopter - Congrats!17:27
SDuensindiakopter - Now fix mine.  :-)17:27
@Haargwhat kind of trouble are you having chatito28?17:28
diakopterrizen: I think the mod_headers stuff got dropped from the port80 apache at some point17:28
chatito28i am trying to add a a event calendar17:29
diakopternot that it matters too much to me; I'm not using the wre.17:29
chatito28and i don't know how to17:29
diakopterchatito28: what version of WebGUI do you have17:29
* SDuensin longs for the WRE.17:29
l-e-o-ni bindend webgui to run on ip 17:29
l-e-o-nah shit17:30
l-e-o-nit seem to work now17:30
chatito28i was looking for a how to or a manual.. but i can't find anything17:30
diakopterda manual is fo sale17:33
* diakopter loves save-and-commit17:40
chatito28my company bough support for webgui , can i see guides with this?17:43
diakopterinteresting; I changed this WebGUI site config file, and did *not* restart mod_perl, but the site immediately reflected the change.17:47
diakopterthat's a new one17:47
* diakopter could've sworn the config file was cached permanently by preload.perl17:48
diakopter(the modproxy mod_header line *really* improves admin-mode responsiveness and server load)17:51
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+perlDreamerMorning folks19:16
@rizenit's like afternoon or something19:17
+perlDreamerNot in Wisonsin19:17
+perlDreamerYou can't fool me, I studied Giograffy19:17
+perlDreamerBut spelling was never my strong poynt19:18
* diakopter giraffes about19:18
+perlDreamerdiakopter, do you want to wiki your mod_header hack?19:21
diakopterwell I realized (yet again) that I'm an idiot19:21
+perlDreamerParaphrasing "The American President", "My idiocy is complex and lies on many levels".19:22
diakopterand that it is still there ..  wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.conf:   Header set Cache-Control "max-age=36000"19:22
+perlDreamerGreat misfortune and woe.19:25
+perlDreamerThe SourceForge community awards are Thursday night.19:25
diakopterso they are19:32
diakopterhave the winners been announced?  or not till Thursday night?19:38
+perlDreamerNot 'til Thursday night.19:38
+perlDreamerWhen I'm at rehearsal.19:38
diakopterhow could SF rent out the whole Jupiter hotel and invite all of OSCON and offer free drinks?  do the site ads pay that well??!?19:39
+perlDreamerSF also owns Slashdot, ThinkGeek, Linux.com and so on19:40
diakopteroh, I see, all under VA Linux, a publicly traded large company.  gotcha.  plenty of revenue.19:41
+perlDreamerPlus commercial SourceForge, plus support.19:46
pjesidiakopter: was your hacked related to IE6 caching everything internally forever?19:47
diakopterpjesi: no...19:48
diakopterunless by everything you mean /extras/*19:48
diakopterpjesi: is that still a problem?19:54
pjesiindeed it is19:57
diakopterpjesi: is there a bug entry for it?19:58
pjesiI think my co-worker did, I dont have any windows machines here so I can't reproduce the error19:59
* pjesi is a university student in a foreign country with very small laptop20:01
diakoptera country foreign to you? or a country foreign to me?20:02
pjesito me20:03
pjesiI am not in the same country as the company20:03
pjesiwell, gotta go bowling!20:06
+perlDreamerIf you request the deletion of a file in svn, but don't actually commit, is there a way to cancel the request?20:21
diakoptersvn revert theFilename?20:24
+perlDreamerHey! Thanks, man.20:25
+perlDreamerThat worked.20:25
diakopterthen make sure svn status doesn't show it D20:25
+perlDreamerYou'd think that would be in the SVN book, or in Google, but it isn't.20:25
+perlDreamerMaybe it's so obvious it doesn't need to be... :(20:25
diakopterI bet it's in Google accessible by *some* keyword20:25
+perlDreamerit's not in svn undelete or svn cancel delete20:26
diakopterhttp://www.tigris.org/nonav/scdocs/ddUsingSVN_command-line.html is a lot shorter than svnbook.20:28
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+perlDreamerWelcome, wgGuest0120:59
-!- wgGuest01 is now known as Dc5e20:59
Dc5eHey, is anyone here familiar with the commerce in WebGUI?21:00
+perlDreamersomewhat, what are you trying to do with it?21:00
Dc5ei want to be able to sell some products with it21:00
Dc5ei've set up the products and product macros21:01
Dc5eand when i put in an order using the cash method, the order goes through21:01
Dc5ebut on the administrative side, how do i view the order?21:01
Dc5ewell, to be more precise, I can view the order in the 'List Transactions' page21:02
Dc5ebut is there any way i can edit it? such as change it's status from 'pending' to 'complete' and view where to ship an item?21:02
+perlDreamergood question21:04
+perlDreamerI don't know the answer to it.  I'd recommend posting it on the discussion boards.21:05
@preactionexample.com?op=listTransactions (it's under the Commerce tab in the admin console. on the right side menu you'll see List Transactions and List Pending Transactions)21:05
Dc5eyeah, when I get to that page though, it only allows me to delete transactions21:05
Dc5eand 'List Pending Transactions' doesn't work21:05
Dc5eit just brings me to the homepage21:05
@preactionthat's a bug: the bug is "listPendingTransactions" is not a valid operation, even though it's referred to21:06
@preaction(it's not there yet that i know of, if you want to post it)21:07
@preactionmost likely all someone has to do is add it to the list in WebGUI::Operation.pm21:07
Dc5eoh ok21:07
Dc5eyeah, because I was wondering about that too, I searched all over the site and saw no mention of it being a bug21:07
+perlDreamerThat's a good indication that you're the first :)21:08
@preactionbut good idea coming here for us to verify, if you give the buglist all the information i've said someone should be able to fix it in 5-10 minutes (if i'm right about it, at least)21:08
+perlDreamerpreaction, you're right, and I've got a fix ready to check in21:09
@preactioncould you make a patch and attach it to that thread for Dc5e to apply to his WebGUI (so he can get going)?21:10
+perlDreamerSure.  Dc5e, are you cool with patching your code?  Do you have a hosted server, or run your own?21:10
Dc5ewell, right now i'm running on my own21:10
Dc5ebut i'm planning to buy the hosting service soon21:10
@preactionit's as simple as: cd /data/WebGUI; patch -p0 < patchfile 21:11
@preactionprovided perlDreamer makes the patch out of the same directory (/data/WebGUI)21:11
+perlDreamerI'll provide patch instructions21:11
+perlDreamerrizen: are we scheduled to release .21 tomorrow?21:12
* preaction goes back into the Collaboration System code, if I'm not back in 2 hours, don't send rescue, just give me a beautiful funeral21:12
+perlDreamercheck in Auth i18n first, please?21:13
@preactionthat should be done21:13
+perlDreamerDc5e, give us a holler when you submit that bug.21:13
+perlDreamerpreaction: got it.21:13
@preactionhas anyone tried the 7.4 collab system?21:13
@preactionoh, it's been refactored21:14
+perlDreamerInheritable, subclassable now21:14
+perlDreamerTo help with the newsletter Asset21:14
@preactionit scared me seeing a 12-line subroutine that i knew should be almost 5021:14
@preactionwhich sucks because i did that before but apparently forgot to move the changes from a client site into the webgui core. luckily this change and my change can be used together21:15
+perlDreamerOkay, I'm out for lunch for a while.21:16
+perlDreamerDc5e, I have your bugfix ready to commit.  All we need is your bug report to finish the documentation.21:16
Dc5ei just posted the bug21:18
+perlDreamerFixed, and patch posted21:26
+perlDreamerNow I'm really going to lunch.21:26
* SDuensin sighs21:31
SDuensinMySQL hates me today.21:33
@rizenyes sir pd, .21 tomorrow22:26
@rizenit may go out slow though cuz i'm teaching graham how to do releases tomorrow22:26
SDuensinHey, here's a new one...22:28
SDuensinAspell.so: wrong ELF class22:28
SDuensinHappened during cpan running from testEnvironment.pl.22:29
@rizenif you can figure out how many grasshoppers with wooden legs it would take to kick all of the seeds out of a dill pickle, then i'll tell you how to fix it22:30
SDuensinIt is.  You're mistaken.22:30
@rizenhmm..then i guess i'd be mistaken about the other thing too22:30
SDuensinDo I really need Text::Aspell: ?22:36
@rizenyou don't need text aspell unless you want to enable webgui spell checking22:36
SDuensinAww, that'd be nice.  Guess I can worry about it later.22:37
SDuensinUh, this is bad, isn't it?22:40
SDuensin[root@u15262483 sbin]# . ./setenvironment 22:40
SDuensin[root@u15262483 sbin]# whereis perl22:40
SDuensinperl: /usr/bin/perl /usr/share/man/man1/perl.1.gz22:40
SDuensinOr not.  "which perl" gives the right answer.22:42
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@rizenc of k in the usa23:53
@rizenhehe...that's soo cool23:53
@rizenoscon, you're going for the whole week?23:53
@rizenman i wish i could go to that23:53
+perlDreamerIt's going to be fun.23:54
+perlDreamerI have a lot of hacking to do that week :)23:54
@rizenthere's a little something going on at pb that i can't yet talk about that prevents me from going, so i'm going to have to live vicariously through you23:54
+perlDreamerI'll be on IRC and IM as long as batteries allow.23:54
+perlDreamerIf you like, put in some requests for sessions to attend and I'll see if I can get to them.23:55
diakopterperlDreamer: we should take turns live blogging...23:55
+perlDreamerInbetween hacking the Help...23:56
+perlDreamerrizen: pb changes announced at WUC or sooner?23:57
@preactionare there any enhancements for the packaging system planned? like the ability to ignore revision dates and just take the imported package's version? or a workflow activity to sync packages between sites?23:59
@preactionduh.. search the RFEs23:59
--- Day changed Wed Jul 18 2007
@rizenpd and dk that would be great 00:00
@rizenthe private things that are going on now should become public in august with any luck00:00
@rizenpreaction yes no yes00:00
@rizenpreaction, i'll skype you00:01
+perlDreamerbetter skype than scalp...00:02
+perlDreamerstupid, accursed, non-intuitive, overly restrictive, broken, non-Vim based, emacs wanna be RTE!00:12
@rizenwho wants to do a super simple RFE for me?00:17
@rizendon't everybody jump at once00:18
diakoptersure, why not00:20
@rizenadd that to the core00:20
@rizenmake sure that the code is an open source license first00:21
@rizenbut if it is00:21
@rizenthen do it00:21
@rizenit is cool00:22
diakopteroh, not World of Warcraft00:22
diakopterit's LGPL00:22
@rizenok then...add it to the core and test it00:22
diakopterwww/extras/codepress like he has it there?00:24
diakopteror somewhere deeper?00:24
@preactionthat would probably be best00:34
@preaction(the www/extras/codepress)00:34
@preactiondid that say anything about search/replace inside the codearea?00:35
@preactionhmm... that would be nice, but doesn't look like it in the description00:36
diakopterno, doesn't seem to have that feature.00:38
diakopternow if only if could do what subthaedit does... ;)00:38
@rizenthat's fine by me00:43
+perlDreamerrizen, do you have 10 minutes to edit my recently submitted Dev Guide to Testing?00:53
+perlDreameroh, and I did a double submit by accident, so could some nice WebGUI.org admin please delete this one00:55
@rizeni'll delete and look00:56
+perlDreamerIf I've overstepped any lines, please hack the page, then me.00:57
@rizenoh i'll hack you even if you haven't00:58
@rizenthere i made some minor edits01:03
@rizenin general it looks great01:03
@rizenand you don't have to ask for my approvla01:03
@rizenthat's the whole idea of a wiki...so everyone can create collaborative knowledge01:03
+perlDreamerWell, I didn't want to set standards for core code without your buyin01:03
@rizenthe standards are already set in wgbp01:04
@rizenyou're just telling people how to make sense of it01:04
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diakopterrizen; preaction: the integration of this editor is kind of crappy01:20
@preactionis it fixable? i think i'll defer to JT on this01:20
* preaction runs01:20
diakopterwell it's *extremely* fragile in IE01:20
diakopterbarely usable, really.01:21
diakopterI should say, not even usable.01:22
@preactionwhich IE? 6 or 7?01:22
diakopterbut the stupid thing is01:24
diakopterthe only feature it adds to the codearea is line numbers.01:24
diakopterand in fact it *removes* the resizable aspect.01:24
@preactionwhat about the highlighting?01:26
@preactionor do you have to actually specify the highlighting to use? (wouldn't be hard to add that)01:26
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+perlDreamerI'm questioning the statistics a little, but so far I've hacked out ~2 Mb of i18n and Help out of the core.01:40
+perlDreamerAnd that's just with the docs for the Macros01:54
@preaction7.4 will be leaner then? 7.3.x was creeping up towards 20meg02:05
+perlDreamerhave you ever run du -s on lib/WebGUI?02:06
+perlDreamerThere are several megs of help/i18n02:06
+perlDreamerAlthought the biggest area by far is the YUI/icon stuff02:06
+perlDreamerThis should trim several Mb off of the running size as well, since Help and i18n are implemented as code.02:06
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diakopterpreaction: no, it seems you have to specify the highlighting grammar.  But of course, that can be a runtime dropdown; surely it doesn't need to persist across saves.  On the other, hand, if HTML::Template templates could have their own highlighting grammar, that'd be pretty sweet.02:59
+crythiashighlighting grammar. Like... if I fed my mother's mother Uranium?03:08
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+Radix-wrkHmm.. coghead.com are doing some interesting stuff atm04:22
+Radix-wrkajax application/database design and they've just added coglets - customisable widgets you can put on your website to access the application/database you set up.04:37
+Radix-wrkrizenisout: that webgui package you sent on May 4th just arrived :)  Surface mail sure takes a while! - 2 months, 14 days05:17
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SDuensinHey AMH_bob 15:54
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@rizenisoutradix_: holy crap balls16:43
@rizenisoutthat is a long time16:43
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@rizendiakopter: if it's fragile, do not introduce it into the core16:43
@rizenthe last thing i want is more bugs to fix16:43
diakopterthat's what I figured16:43
diakopterit's a POS actually16:43
@rizenit looked cool16:43
diakoptersure, the latest version16:43
diakopterproperly configured/integrated16:43
* SDuensin missed something16:44
diakopterbut as the forum attests, the latest version has devastating bugs.16:44
@rizennot worth it then...i guess we'll have to let it stabilize16:44
diakopteryeah :(16:44
diakoptersorry :(16:44
SDuensinWhat are we talking about?16:45
diakopterel CodeArea.pm16:45
diakopterand some JS editor mod16:45
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@rizenperlDreamer: you are checking your help changes into 7.4 and not 7.3 right?20:42
+perlDreameroh no!20:42
+perlDreameryes, I'm doing 7.4 ;)20:43
+perlDreamerThere are some help topics for screens that don't have hoverhelp, like user settings.20:43
+perlDreamerDo you want to keep that help, purge it, or what?20:43
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@rizenuser settings?20:44
+perlDreameruser profile settings20:44
@rizengoes in the wiki20:44
@rizeni want nothing remaining except regular i18n labels, hover help, and template variables20:45
+perlDreamergot it20:45
+perlDreamerlater today, or perhaps tomorrow I'll need to ask you what to do with the Help icon and operations.20:46
@rizeni'm happy to report that the test suite discovered 4 errors this morning before the release20:55
@rizenwhich we're correcting20:55
@rizenkudos test suite20:55
+perlDreamerWhat did I break?20:55
@rizentwo problems were, i believe frank20:56
@rizenpatching a bug in 7.4 but not backporting the fix to 7.320:56
@rizenand the last two were...i don't know who20:56
@rizenbut both have to do with help20:56
@rizenone i18n file had a syntax error20:56
@rizenand now there's a related problem that we're trying to track down20:57
@rizenbut having trouble with20:57
+perlDreamerNeed help?20:57
@rizenthe output from the related test is not easy to follow20:57
+perlDreamerIf you paste it, I can tell you what it means20:57
+perlDreamerok 680 - Help entry: Asset -> asset template from Asset_Layout -> layout template20:58
+perlDreamerfor example20:58
@Haargnot ok 164 - Help entry: Workflow_Activity_NotifyAdminsWithOpenVersionTags -> 'notify admins with open version tags' from Workflow_Activity -> list of installed activities20:59
+perlDreamerThat means that there is no help for NotifyAdminsWithOpenVersionTags20:59
+perlDreamerSince it's going away for 7.4, might not be a big deal20:59
+perlDreamerIt was fixed in 7.4, before I chopped it out21:00
@rizenactually that workflow activity is not supposed to even be there21:01
+perlDreamerEven easier21:02
@rizenwe have a big problem21:25
@rizenwith the related help test21:25
@rizenit's somehow pulling stuff in from 7.4 even though those files aren't in our tree21:25
@rizenon my machine it's complaining about Asset_Newsletter21:25
@rizenbut that doesn't exist until 7.421:25
+perlDreamerwhat's your WEBGUI_CONFIG env var set to?21:26
@rizendoes it cache anywhere?21:27
@rizenthe config var is set to the right place on both graham and my machines21:27
@rizenwe're both getting different sets of errors21:27
@rizeneven though at /data/WebGUI21:27
@rizenis our 7.3 branch21:27
@rizenon both machines21:27
@rizeni get: Failed test 'Help entry: Asset_Newsletter -> 'newsletter add/edit' from Asset -> asset list'21:27
@rizenand  Failed test 'Help entry: Macro_Basic -> 'basic' from Macros -> macros list'21:28
@rizenhe gets that other one he told you about21:28
+perlDreamerI'll see if I can duplicate it.21:28
@rizeni'm boggled21:29
+perlDreamerI don't get any errors.  that's after updating21:29
diakopterrizen: maybe a 7.4 checkout is in PERL5LIB :/  try starting another shell?21:30
@rizenok i'll try that21:30
+perlDreamergtg, be back after lunch21:30
@rizensame errors in a new shell21:31
@rizenoh well, i think we're going to just release with this21:31
@rizencuz it doesn't seem to be a real problem21:31
@rizenonly a problem in the test suite on our boxes21:31
diakopteris svn status   empty?21:31
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@rizenKhaytsus, how do you like PostNuke?21:35
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pjesican someone point me to the 7.4 feature list?22:08
pjesiwow these nominees on SF, I have not heard about 90%22:11
pjesiI only voted for Spring and WebGUI22:13
pjesithe rest either used PHP or is for Windows22:13
Khaytsusrizen: I don't.. heh..22:14
Khaytsusrizen: It's a pain in the ass to keep up to date22:14
@rizenas a user of PostNuke is there anything it has over WebGUI?22:15
@rizenother than that it's easier to install22:15
+perlDreamerrizen: You can use PostNuke on a shared hoster?23:17
@rizenthat's what i'm talking about with install stuff though23:18
@rizenphp vs mod_perl23:18
@rizennot something i can do anything about23:18
perlmonkey2php performance vs mod_perl23:30
@rizenpd you rule23:30
@rizenwebgui is going to scream without all that help in memory23:30
@rizennow if we could just eliminate all labels from templates and use the i18n macro, we'd be sitting pretty23:33
Khaytsusrizen: Not really, only thing I can think of PostNuke might have is more themes readily availably.23:39
KhaytsusBut that might be that I just haven't looked around as much ywet for WebGui themes.23:39
KhaytsusSorry, working here, peep in every so often :)23:39
* Khaytsus runs home23:39
+perlDreamerrizen, I'm guessing we can drop another 2-3 Mb with the Asset docs and other stuff, but it's getting real lean.23:41
@rizenthat's awesome23:41
@rizenit will drop our per process size by around 5mb23:41
@rizenthat's a huge overall drop23:41
+perlDreamerIt will be easier to maintain, too.  Since it's smaller.23:43
* SDuensin cheers for RAM savings!23:43
SDuensinWebGUI's RAM use has been kicking my ass lately.  That's fantastic news.23:44
+perlDreamerWhen I'm done with pruning, I'll run perltidy --WGBP on the Help and i18n files, too23:46
SDuensinWell, time to go home and work on my new WebGUI server!   Later all!23:48
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pjesi"I can see that it is a step up for people whi have used various java based frameworks til now. But when you already have CGI::Builder, Catalyst, Maypole, or even webgui if you want to get really filthy ... why change?"23:49
pjesifrom http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.309321.423:49
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+perlDreamerHaarg, preaction, rizen: would someone please give spectre a kick on pb.com.00:52
+perlDreamerIt's stuck again.00:52
@preactionwait, isn't that part of the fix in today's release?00:52
@preactionare they still releasing?00:52
+perlDreamerYou'd sure think so :)00:52
+perlDreamerI don't know00:52
@Haargthe release is out00:53
+perlDreamerA bug was just submitted about plainblack emails not going out.00:53
@preactionHaarg, rizen, do you guys want to debug what's happening right now or can i just restart it?00:54
@Haarglet me take a look quick00:54
@preaction--status shows nothing, --test shows everything's fine00:55
@Haargyeah, i'm not seeing anything in particular00:57
+perlDreamerfor example, JT responded to Yung's post about file attachments00:58
+perlDreamerI never got any emails.00:59
+perlDreamerAnd that's from the dev list.00:59
@preactionHaarg, the only thing i can think of is that the scheduled tasks stop getting run after X days (but only on pb.com? we haven't had anyone else see this error that I know of). perhaps the libs that Spectre::Cron rely on have been updated recently?01:01
@preactionnevermind, looks like Spectre::Cron is its own scheduler system entirely01:01
@Haargit might be good to add something about cron jobs to --status01:05
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+perlDreameroh look, a raft of PB emails!01:10
+perlDreamerthanks, guys01:11
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+perlDreamerYou know, as much as I tout the test suite, y'all need to remind me that it's nowhere near totally comprehensive.02:00
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+crythias... and then I said, "Compiler? But I hardly even know her!"02:18
@preactionuwah ha ha ha ha!!1102:19
+crythias"Clergyperson: Then by the power vested in me by insert local credentializing agency here, I now pronounce you wooter and WiFi. You may now surf the Internet, download MP3s, make Internet phone calls, share files, play network games, and stream high-definition videos simultaneously, and without wires, as long as you both shall function."02:20
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@rizencrythias makes funny jokes16:25
AMH_bobGood morning!16:32
@rizenAMH_bob is a liar. it's not morning where he is16:33
AMH_bobNope, but it's morning somewhere! (I love that country song: It's five O'Clock somewhere)16:34
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mindspinhi, I got a weird problem with webgui 5.8.8, when i type the url of the website, some virtual hosts work properly, some others work only when I type url/index.pl and some otehrs refuse to work, firefox is only asking wether it should download index.pl 18:11
perlmonkey2mindspin: Sounds like your webgui.conf for apache isn't set up right.  You need to tell apache how to handle scripts in your /data dir.18:27
mindspinit came out of a sudden 18:28
mindspincould it be that I editet with utf8, instead of iso blah charset?18:28
mindspinbecause the error log shows cryptic signs18:29
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mindspinlike this: Undefined subroutine &Apache::Registry::handl18:29
mindspinit worked properly for three years, real weird thing18:30
mindspinperlmonkey2: I tried to add scriptURL=/ in webgui.conf but with no effect18:31
perlmonkey2If it used to work and just now stopped, I'd roll back whatever changes you just made and also make sure there aren't encoding issues.18:31
mindspinI'll bet its encoding issues18:32
mindspinbecause only the suites where I uncommented Perl::Registry refuse to work18:32
mindspinI hate it18:33
diakoptermindspin: what editor were you using18:43
mindspinmidnight commander18:43
mindspinactually I have a look at httpd.conf with vi18:45
diakopterahhh.... good old mc.  ick... I've had encoding problems with that built-in editor before.18:47
mindspinbut vi shows no crypting chars18:48
mindspinnow all pages work with URL/index.pl18:48
mindspinbut not with just the url18:48
mindspinall sites i did not touch yesterday work fine...18:50
diakoptermindspin: are you restarting apache/mod_perl after these changes?18:50
diakopterwhy did you uncomment Perl::Registry in those sites?18:51
mindspinit gave me internal server errors which needed rfreshing of the site...18:51
mindspinafter uncommenting the errors did not appear anymore18:52
mindspinbut wether uncommented or not, it has no effects, the site shows up only when I add /index.pl18:55
mindspinnow I try some magic, I just change a working config of a garbage site and change the values to the paths of the site i need, I#ll bet its a coding issue19:00
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mindspinnope, magic doesnt do the trick19:08
mindspinhehe its not a webgui issue, its just firefox..... the sites work with konqueror, and IE, weird weird thing19:25
diakopterrizen: just got this in a spam: http://www.scriptlogic.com/landing/server%2Drockstar/19:33
@rizenthere are no original ideas left in the world19:35
diakopternor memes! :)19:36
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Dc5eHas anyone tested the List Pending Transactions since 7.3.21? Supposedly it was fixed but it still does not seem to be working.20:49
+perlDreameruh oh20:50
+perlDreamerWhat shows up in your webgui.log file?20:50
Dc5euh hold on20:50
Dc5emain::[[undef]] - Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Commerce::www_listPendingTransactions. Root cause: Can't locat20:52
Dc5eer hold on20:53
Dc5emain::[[undef]] - Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Commerce::www_listPendingTransactions. Root cause: Can't locate object method "db" via package "WebGUI::Commerce::Transaction" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Commerce/Transaction.pm line 478.20:53
Dc5ethere we go20:53
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+perlDreamerDc5e, are you comfortable with a text editor?20:55
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+perlDreamerrizen: how many more 7.3's are there going to be?20:57
@preactioni would hope we keep releasing bugfixes to 7.3 until 7.4 goes stable21:00
* perlDreamer imagines rizen talking on the phone, looking longingly at his IRC client21:00
@preactionhe's trying to hire me some durned help around here21:01
+perlDreamerWhen the Commerce gets rewritten in 7.(>4), I'm going to have a royal tizzy fit if we don't build a basic test suite to go with it.21:03
+perlDreamerDc5e: Here's the scoop.  I don't have a way to sandbox the Commerce system during the day.  So when I fixed the operation, it just allowed the next bug to be uncovered.21:05
+perlDreamerI've found this bug, and have a prototype fix for it, but we're again in jeopardy of not having the final solution.21:05
+perlDreamerIf you're willing, we can do this together.21:05
Dc5esorry, i was busy doing something, i'm back now.21:05
+perlDreamerYou willing to try a fix for me?21:06
Dc5ewell, I'm kind of busy right now...21:07
+perlDreamerWould a time later today be better?21:08
+perlDreamerAlternately, I can give you the fix and let you try it (and downstream stuff) at your leisure21:09
+perlDreamerHow does that sound21:09
+perlDreamerperlbot pastebin21:10
perlbot(see paste)21:10
+perlDreamerperlbot: paste21:10
perlbotPaste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.21:10
+perlDreamerDc5e: here's your patch http://sial.org/pbot/2640921:12
+perlDreamerI'll be afk for a while21:13
Dc5eokay, thanks21:13
+perlDreamerPlease post back here if you have more problems, or better yet, file a bug21:13
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Dc5eperlDreamer, the patch worked. Thanks alot.21:44
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@rizenpd, there will be exactly 1 more 7.3 release21:51
@rizennext wednesday21:51
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professorfrink_i'm running 7.3.19 and i'm having trouble with subscriptions to collaboration system - 23:05
professorfrink_in v6, when someone subscribed to a collab system, they got an email any time something was posted or changed23:05
professorfrink_and this worked when we were running an earlier version of 7.3, but then it just stopped working23:06
professorfrink_any thoughts?23:06
@preactionis spectre running? are there queued messages in the "mailQueue" table?23:06
professorfrink_spectre is running, and we're not having any trouble with any other workflows23:08
professorfrink_i'll check the mailqueue23:08
professorfrink_it looks like the notification message is in the mailqueue tab23:17
+perlDreamerDc5e: So is _everything_ working now, or do you just get the screen now?23:19
@preactionprofessorfrink_, what version are you running? it might be a good idea to kick spectre (rc.webgui restartspectre)23:19
professorfrink_we're running 7.3.1923:19
professorfrink_i'll give it a shot23:21
@preactionlooks like the fix for that isn't until 7.423:22
professorfrink_yea, restarting spectre didn't seem to help23:31
professorfrink_so it seems like other people are having this problem, not just us?23:32
@rizencurl http://www.yoursite.com:81/?op=spectreGetSiteData23:39
@rizenrun that from the command line23:39
@rizenand make sure it returns good data and no errors23:39
professorfrink_looks good to me - returned a bunch of processes and workflows, but no errors23:44
@rizenexcellent then that's not the problem23:45
professorfrink_whoa - everything just came through23:48
professorfrink_from the past 3 weeks when it wasn't working23:48
professorfrink_looks like spectre just needed a kick in the pants23:50
professorfrink_thanks for all the help!23:50
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+perlDreamerjust be sure to use that trick only on spectre23:51
professorfrink_for sure23:51
+perlDreamerusing it on other things, (cars, dogs, etc.) is not guaranteed to work23:51
professorfrink_webgui IRC - not just webgui help, but life advice as well23:52
+perlDreamerWe try to be a full service community23:52
+perlDreamerWhy, just last week rizen told me why the meringue weeps in my Lemon Meringue pie.23:52
professorfrink_and i appreciate that23:52
professorfrink_that was so nice of him23:54
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professorfrink_i need to hang out more often....23:54
+perlDreamerYeah, I never would have thought of Cream of Tartar as a binding agent.23:55
--- Day changed Fri Jul 20 2007
+perlDreamerGo Haarg!00:04
+perlDreamerDude, you seem to be blessed.00:04
+perlDreamerWhenever I fix bugs, people keep reporting more00:04
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+perlDreamerkarma bug01:13
+perlDreamerperlbot: karma bug01:13
perlbotKarma for bug: 101:13
+perlDreamerperlbot: karma bugs01:13
perlbotKarma for bugs: -201:13
@rizenare you drunk?01:13
+perlDreamerno, just misspelling01:13
* diakopter is crunk01:13
+perlDreamerI closed a WebGUI.org bug because it appeared to go away01:14
+perlDreamerWell, now it's back.01:14
@Haargmaybe i screwed it up when i fixed the other issue with those lists01:17
+perlDreamerIt isn't a recent reoccurance, it's been a while.01:20
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l-e-o-nwhere can i find the virtual hosts for the awstats and how can i disable the demo in wre 0.7.215:37
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l-e-o-nhey SDuensin16:02
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@rizenl-e-o-n, both are in /data/wre/etc16:28
SDuensinHey rizen 16:35
@rizenhow goes it SD?16:36
SDuensinPretty well.  Got both my servers on the same release of WG last night and transferred all the web data over.  Took forever.  :-)16:37
SDuensinBut now I'm ready to install everything and then resync the databases.  Hopefully that'll fix my never ending RAM issues.16:38
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AMH_bobGood afternoon (Better late than never!)17:33
SDuensinHey AMH_bob 17:36
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+crythias... and then the ghost said, "Give me a beer... and a mop!" 17:44
AMH_bobHi Scott, I'm on duty this weekend - I'm going to try keeping the serverparc up using a nokia 770 instead of my laptop17:44
+crythiasnokia 770 rocks17:44
+crythiasthanks woot!17:44
AMH_bobIt's like... so cool dude17:45
+crythiasI can't believe what convenience it is.17:45
+crythiasexcept that rdesktop needs bt kbd17:45
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AMH_bobyeah, a mini bluetooth keyboard would be welcome (if real server problems arise)17:46
+crythiasI wish I got this one http://www.proporta.com/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=1461&t_mode=des17:47
+crythiasThis would be nice, too. http://freedominput.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=3017:52
AMH_bobYep, that freedom thing is going onto my wishlist. 18:03
AMH_bobTo everybody: have a nice weekend!18:03
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+perlDreamerIs rizen going to be around today?19:19
@preactionperlDreamer, no, he's out today19:22
+perlDreamerI'm probably going to be able to finish up the Help hacking today19:23
+perlDreamerStep 2 is what to do with all the Help icons.19:23
+perlDreamerWhere do they link to?19:23
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+perlDreamerboy, we have a lot of Assets22:34
+perlDreamerSDuensin: for 64-bit WRE, I think ckotil has done a lot of work on that.22:35
SDuensinBe nice to have one.22:36
SDuensinFor now, I've made the 32 bit RHEL one run.22:37
SDuensinIn fact, I *just* moved all my sites.  :-)22:37
+perlDreamerwere you having problems with the ftp client?22:37
+perlDreamercompiling it?22:37
SDuensinI don't remember.  I had a ton of things that wouldn't build.22:37
+perlDreamerI know you're already all set up, but if you get interested, I think the answers are in the IRC logs and the discussion boards.22:38
SDuensinLogs maybe.  I didn't see anything in the forums.  Well, nothing newer than WRE 6.22:39
+perlDreamermight have been on the paid support forums, but I don't remember.22:39
+perlDreamerckotil: ping.  Yo!  You around?22:40
+perlDreamernope, not today.22:40
SDuensinI had some kind of paid support.  No idea what it was - doesn't seem to be an option anymore.22:40
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+perlDreamerpreaction, got a sec?01:58
+perlDreamerDo mulitple versions of the same asset have different assetIds?01:59
+perlDreamerI didn't think so.01:59
+perlDreamerSame asset can have different URLs, though02:00
+perlDreamerI'm trying to understand the logic behind Asset->urlExists02:01
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+crythiasso, I've been thinking about Schriedinger's cat21:42
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--- Day changed Mon Jul 23 2007
diakoptercrythias: is it for sale or something?00:01
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wgGuest51Question : Is it possible to setup WebGUI on a shared hosting site?09:59
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wgGuest04Does anyone know where a requirements list might be for installing WebGUI?10:06
wgGuest04Nevermind, found it. There really should be a page instead of only in the wiki though. o.o10:08
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-!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.20 | WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc .:. Feel free to ask questions on here - but make sure you stick around long enough for us to answer! :)10:31
@preactiontomorrow starts the amateur air show in the country, 5 miles away from where i'm sitting, trying to sleep. the tourists have already arrived to wreak havoc on this small city of 60,000 people.10:46
@preactioni feel sorry for our service industry...10:46
+Radix-wrkgood luck! :)11:43
+Radix-wrkI'd be worrying about my house being crashed into by one of the amateur pilots myself! :)11:44
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+crythiasHI, et al.15:33
+crythiasI was thinking about the AssetProxy being added to the rich editor.15:35
+crythiasRadix__ you there?15:36
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+crythiasjust was16:25
+crythiaswas thinking about the process to put an asset in rich editor16:26
Radix__Rizen doesn't seem to think it's possible, and closed my request16:27
Radix__not without simply embedding assetproxy calls and then not displaying the image at all16:27
+crythiasIt seems to me that if the edit screen is more like a ... what is that thing...16:27
+crythiasI want to say "desktop" but I mean something else.16:28
+crythiasbut what if the edit screen was more like a page layout admin mode rather than the way it is, now.16:28
+crythiasthere's this asset that allows you to move chunks of content around.16:29
+crythiaskinda like a mini portal16:29
Radix__I think it's more the way the rich text editor interacts with webgui16:29
Radix__and how the data is passed around that is the problem16:29
Radix__webgui kinda dumps the html out and sends it to the rich text editor, then gets it back at the end16:30
Radix__with images there is some kind of interaction with webgui going on, but the rte still needs valid html to work with16:31
Radix__what you want is some kind of special object reference that gets interpreted the right way to the rte and to webgui when it gets the data back at the end16:32
Radix__evenin ;)16:32
+crythiaswe need a java WYSIWYG that handles the requests better. or perhaps a AJAX-like request/retrieval16:33
Radix__Hey bob - how's the weather in nl atm? :)16:33
AMH_bobit has rained and its a 17C/63F out there...16:35
* Radix__ will make sure he brings his raincoat when he goes there next weekend.16:35
AMH_bobbut I only get to go outside 40 feet to the car and 20 feet from the car to the house..... so it's not that big a deal to me :P16:36
Radix__it's flooding down here at the moment16:36
AMH_bobRadix, are you comming over? Gonna be in the neighbourhood of Eindhoven?16:37
Radix__but then it's winter for us, so we expect it :)16:37
Radix__AMH_bob: Yup, as of Sunday I leave wet and rainy australia and head north to europe for a couple of months.  Spending two weeks with Oqapi in Delft, then head off on holidays to see the rest of europe :)16:38
AMH_bobCool, I'll send you my home and office details, jist in case you have time to kill or if you need help with anything.16:42
SDuensinAnyone ever have the WRE go nuts and eat all the CPU time?16:44
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pjesiSDuensin: yes please16:59
SDuensinPlease?  You want it to go nuts?17:01
pjesihehe no, but I have to restart WRE frequently because of this17:17
SDuensinThat's not good.  I need to fix it.17:18
pjesiI know17:19
pjesiactually it is the admins job17:20
pjesiand he insisted on this17:20
SDuensinWell, for me, the sad thing is - *I'M* the admin!17:20
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SDuensinTrouble has arrived!17:21
pjesimake sure to highlight me if you find something interesting17:21
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diakopterwelcome, perlDreamer.  WebGUI is web done right.18:18
+perlDreamerGood morning, all.18:18
+perlDreamerWe're reporting live from OSCON.18:18
diakopterOSCON 2007, that is.18:18
+perlDreamerPlease forward all questions to the moderator, and we'll answer them on a one by one basis.18:18
diakopternot any past or future ones.18:18
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@rizenwhat sessions are you guys in right now?18:31
+perlDreamerAdvanced VIM Scripting18:31
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@rizenask if there is a way to start vim in edit mode18:31
@rizenfor example, when vim is set as your subversion editor18:32
+perlDreamerThere's gotta be a way to do that, because that's how diakopter's vim starts18:32
+perlDreamerhe asked me if there was a way to turn it off :)18:33
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+Radix_rizen: vim -y19:05
+Radix_it puts vi in a wierd mode tho.. you need to use ctrl-l to get it into command mode19:09
+Radix_also called evim19:09
@rizenwhat i'm looking for is just to execute i as soon as vim opens19:18
@rizeni don't want to be in a special mode19:18
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diakopterrizen: http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=29719:21
diakopteror, alias vim=vim -c 'startinsert'19:23
diakopterI mean,   alias vim="vim -c 'startinsert'"19:24
+perlDreamerrizen: just committed a fix to the bug we discussed earlier.19:28
+perlDreamerI'll work on the backport next19:28
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+perlDreamerbackport done19:35
+perlDreamerin vim, you can use :match to debug regular expressions19:49
+perlDreamerIt will show you what part of the text matches your regex19:49
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wgGuest24nick todor_k21:08
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+perlDreamerfull house today23:33
+perlDreamerSo now I'm in Advanced Techniques for Parsing23:33
diakopterfull here as well.  "A Taste of Haskell"23:33
+perlDreamerI saw your room. There are more people in the channel ;)23:34
diakopterbarely any seats open here now23:34
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+crythiasError Message: Your Password Must Be at Least 18770 Characters and Cannot Repeat Any of Your Previous 30689 Passwords23:54
+crythiasand because of this, we learn of the msgina .dll23:55
--- Day changed Tue Jul 24 2007
diakopterohhhh; pronounced Ms. Jyna.  I get it now.00:03
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danny_mkInteresting behavior!  00:26
danny_mktry this:  http://www.yournewwebguiinstallation.com/faq00:26
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+perlDreamerI was going to ask last week, is anyone else going to OSCON?01:16
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@preactionwhen i'm managing revisions in a tag that has a workflow instance, will i be allowed to approve/deny tags that have already been approved/denied by some other user?01:53
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AMH_bobGoodmorning, your ealy!12:27
xootommorning amh_bob! which country are you in?12:41
AMH_bobThe Netherlands12:49
AMH_bobNice and rainy over here...12:49
xootomahh over in the uk here, yes it's been very wet12:59
pjesiit is sunny here in the uk13:03
xootomyeah it's nice today, where abouts are you pjesi13:10
pjesiI walked down to Thames last night, man it was a lot of water!13:13
xootomi was going to say, wasn't that one of the flooded areas?13:13
pjesiSome of the roads near Thames were closed yesterday, I don't know how bad it was13:14
+Radix_it's been raining cats and dogs here too!13:57
+Radix_We had a section of our office flooded overnight13:57
+Radix_No serious damage tho.. just wet carpets - had huge industrial dryers drying out the carpet all day13:58
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SDuensinHey rizen 16:26
@rizenstraw SD16:27
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AMH_bobHi Guys16:58
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chatito28Good morning .. i have a question. I setup up webgui 7.3.21 from scratch and i am able to get my page through port 81 but not port 8017:02
chatito28what do i need to do17:02
chatito28i get a mssg configure awstats.newweb.conf17:02
chatito28anybody can help me17:08
@rizenmv awstats.newweb.conf awstats.newweb.conf.off17:09
@rizenrestart web17:09
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chatito28sorry but now i get the stats when i type http://newweb17:21
@rizenoops, told you to rename the wrong file17:22
@rizenmeant stats.modproxy17:22
chatito28so it should be stats.modproxy.off17:23
@rizenanybody know if there are stylesheet properties i could use to lock a div to the lower right corner of a window regardless of whether the window scrolls or not?17:25
chatito28now i get a bad gateway error17:26
SDuensinI think there are.  Don't ask me what they might be though.17:26
chatito28502 Bad Gateway17:26
@rizenchatito28, that's all i can tell you. for more contact plainblack support17:26
chatito28thanks for the help17:35
chatito28i have karmas .. how do i contact support17:35
@rizendo you have a support contract? 17:39
@rizenif not, go to plainblack.com > store > support17:39
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@preactionanyone in here ever notice a problem with empty version tags from users (who should have their stuff auto-committed)?18:00
@rizeni have seen that on occasion, but have not been able to determine what causes it18:01
@rizeni've only ever seen it on one site though, so i thought it might be site related18:02
@preactionwhich site? the alumni site? they seem to have it happen rather often18:02
@rizenit never seems to happen on plainblack.com even though we have a lot of people posting there all the time18:03
@preactionperhaps all the people posting there are speaking UTF-8?18:07
@preactionor, the postings aren't subject to approval18:07
@preactionwhereas the ones on the alumni site and the cmsmatrix are18:07
@rizenon plainblack.com only the news page is subject to approval18:11
@rizenon cmsmatrix.org only the news page is subject to approval18:11
@preactiondoesn't cmsmatrix.org allow anyone to post news though? whereas plainblack only allows us?18:13
@rizennope, anyone can post news on plainblack.com18:14
@rizenjust mostly people don't18:15
@preactionside-note: is anyone allowed to post news to webgui.org?18:15
@rizenit's the same site18:16
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@rizennuba, how's the google maps thing?19:48
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cryolaianybody have any idea when the commerce module will be updated with a new version?20:33
@rizen7.5 or beyond20:34
@rizenmeaning, not in the next few months20:34
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SDuensinWhen do we get to start seeing the slimmer, nicer to my RAM, WebGUI?  :-)20:47
@rizenwhen it is released20:47
@rizenand i've already stated the release date on the dev mailing list20:47
SDuensinWell, get typin'!  I need it!  :-)20:47
@preactionhold yer horses20:48
SDuensinMy horses are swappin' like mad!  :-P20:49
@preactionthere are so many new features in 7.4, we have to ensure they all get in20:49
cryolaiare there any order details that can be seen other than the item bought in the commerce section?20:53
cryolaisuch as CC #'s, buyers, etc20:53
@preactioncryolai, which version? i believe there was a bug fixed in commerce for this wednesday's release that fixed the View Pending transactions20:54
cryolaithe latest version...20:54
@rizencryolai: you can never view cc numbers, that would be a big security problem20:55
cryolaithe view pending doesn't really show any pertinent details20:55
@rizenbut you can see what items were purchased, and the total purchase amount, and what user made the purchase20:55
@rizenand when you log in to the itransact account you can see other things like whether it was purchased with a visa/mastercard, etc20:56
@rizenbut in general, the commerce system is bare bones right now. it's fine for small stores, but it needs a major upgrade to do fancy stuff20:56
@rizenand that's all coming in later 7.x releases20:56
cryolaiwhere does it show which user made the purchase?21:01
cryolaipending transactions shows transactionID, date, gatewayID...21:02
@rizenmy mistake, it is supposed to show that in the list transactions screen21:03
@rizenthat's a bug21:03
cryolaioh alright21:04
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cryolaiso, does that mean that iTransact will have all the CC information?21:16
cryolaior no21:16
@rizenit has their credit card info, but you are not allowed to see it21:16
@rizenagain, that would be a security flaw21:16
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cryolaiso..how do you access the contact information that they provided in the form (such as an address for shipping)21:39
cryolaior that is a security issue as well21:39
@rizeni just told you, that's a bug21:39
@rizenit's being worked on as we speak21:40
cryolaioh, okay, sorry21:40
@rizenyou should see the user that made the purchase in the transaction list21:40
@rizenand then you can view their address info21:40
@rizenalthough, you can probably also see that in your iTransact account if you want21:40
@Haargi have that fixed now.  it will show the user in the transaction lists.22:19
@rizennote, that fix will be in 7.3.2222:20
cryolaiwhen is that coming out?22:32
cryolaitmorrow? :)22:33
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@rizensometime on wednesday22:40
@rizenit may be wednesday night, so its probably safer to tell you thursday22:40
cryolaiThanks for your help23:38
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--- Day changed Wed Jul 25 2007
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+perlDreamerHaarg: no need to forward port the Asset Template help to 7.4.  It was deleted.00:12
@Haargi did that by accident00:12
+perlDreamerDeleted as part of the Great Help purge of 200700:12
@Haargdidn't think i committed it00:12
+perlDreamerYou didn't, I was just being proactive.00:12
@Haargok :)00:13
@preactionHelp purge? this is a witch hunt! cossacks!00:13
@preactionhelp help its being repressed!00:13
+perlDreamersvn del Help/Asset_preaction.pm00:13
+perlDreamersvn commit -m 'For the greater good'00:14
@preactionis there any way to prevent some text from being wiki-linked?00:14
@preactioni think not yet, right?00:14
+perlDreamerNot unless you misspell it.00:14
@Haargput it in an anchor would work00:14
+perlDreamerIn Kwiki-ese, you mean something like !ThisIsNotAWikiLink00:15
@preactiona named anchor? that's evil00:15
@preactionbasically, yeah00:15
@Haargyeah, that's only appropriate in certain places00:15
@preactioni'm almost thinking we'll need to move towards adding wiki-markup for the linking feature :(00:15
@preaction[[wikilink]] [[!don't wiki link this you git]]00:16
* rizen mumbles something about how he hates wiki markup00:18
+perlDreamerMaybe a noLInker plugin to the RTE?00:18
+perlDreamer&nbsp; inbetween the words may do it, since its regexp based.00:19
@rizenwhy would you not want to link it if the title exists?00:19
@rizengive me a reason00:19
@preactionit's linking the France part of Francesca because there's a "France" article00:20
@rizenbs...then create a Francesca article00:20
@preactionbut they don't want Francesca to be an article00:21
@rizenor link to an external page that is related to francesca00:21
@preactionit's just the name of a person, can't link to her profile because (probably) it's private00:21
@preaction(if she even has a profile)00:21
@rizensorry, i just don't see it as being a problem00:22
@rizenwhy don't you submit and RFE and see if people agree with you00:36
@rizenif it gets moved up toward the top of the list i'll be forced to change my mind00:36
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@preactionjust the problem or my proposed solution? i could try to take some time to understand the TinyMCE enough to integrate some sort of WYSIWYG way to manipulate wiki linking (as well as handy show-auto-linking-as-you-type)00:38
@preactionprobably a better solution, if possible, but far more difficult00:39
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+perlDreamerpreaction: how about anchoring the regexp's with \b to enforce whole word matching?01:15
@preactionchange all the spaces in the title we're trying to match against to \b\s+\b ?01:16
+perlDreamerno, see line 100 in Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.pm01:17
+perlDreamerit builds that gnarly regexp then joins them with |'s01:17
@Haargthe problem with that is linking plurals and such01:18
+perlDreameryou'd lose linking to plurals01:18
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+perlDreamerThere's a wiki whose markup is POD...01:42
@preactionyeah, not so much01:44
@preactionwe don't need to replace anything that HTML can already do01:45
SDuensinPoo.  I was hoping someone was industrious and added a memory reduction page to the wiki.  :-)02:02
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@preactionwhat's the Graphics admin panel used for?10:34
@preactionthere's an entire admin panel that i've never used and is completely undocumented10:34
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+Radix-wrkpreaction: it's used for graphs in polls10:49
@preactionthat would explain it10:49
@preactionokay, ethical question: should I confront a committer about their blatant disregard for the WebGUI Best Practices?11:07
+Radix-wrkSure, but be nice and helpful too, whoever it is is still contributing!11:13
@preactionsecond question: what if it's JT?11:14
+Radix-wrkhaha... then drop the nice and helpful bit - just tell him ;)11:15
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SDuensinKinda good morning.17:02
@rizenwould be better if preaction wasn't always dissing me17:05
SDuensinYou probably deserve it for something.  :-)17:06
SDuensinWe still love ya though.17:06
SDuensinI'd love you a lot more if my server quit running it's load up to 35+ when WebGUI is running.  :-(17:07
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@rizenis it my fault that you've set up webgui on a woefully underpowered box?17:12
SDuensinThing is, it's not.  I have a dual core AMD 64 bit thing with a gig of RAM.17:23
SDuensinI have a sinking feeling it's the "64 bit" part.  Since it's hosted, I don't have a choice of OSs.17:24
@rizenholy balls man. then ram is not your problem, unless the site is just being flooded with thousands and thousands of requests17:24
xootomi was really worried about running webgui on my server, but it performs really well, only 1gb and that's shared with 3 other apaches running metadot, php4 and php517:24
SDuensinNope.  It's sitting bored.  Maybe four people on it.17:24
@rizenit's either the 64-bit part, or it's not configured very well17:24
@rizenwhat does your /data/wre/prereqs/apache/conf/startup.pl look like?17:25
SDuensinWhat's to configure?  It's the WRE.  I even went in and trimmed down the RAM settings like I did on my old server.17:25
xootommine was originally 64 bit but i abandoned and reimaged with 32 bit, 64 bit had far too many issues with things not compiling or not available17:25
@rizeneven with the WRE there is some tuning that can be done to suit the given environment17:25
@rizenthe WRE is configured as well as it can be without knowing the environment17:26
SDuensinI changed startup.pl to this:17:26
SDuensin$Apache2::SizeLimit::MAX_PROCESS_SIZE =  50000;17:26
SDuensin$Apache2::SizeLimit::MAX_UNSHARED_SIZE = 25000;17:26
SDuensin$Apache2::SizeLimit::CHECK_EVERY_N_REQUESTS = 5;17:26
@rizenthose are way too low17:26
@rizeni bet if you look at your modperl error log17:26
@rizenyou'll see that the processes are being killed after serving just one or two requests17:27
SDuensinI can put them back where they were.  Doesn't seem to matter.17:27
@rizenlook at your modperl error log17:27
SDuensinYea.  It's mad.  Oddly, it also has errors that fork() doesn't have enough memory.17:29
SDuensinI'll put 'em back to 100000 and 75000.17:29
@rizenyeah, and then see what the log says17:30
SDuensinSo when does the "Moron's Guide to WebGUI Administration" get released?  :-)17:30
@rizenwhen i'm done writing it17:30
SDuensinOK, now to sit and watch "top" for awhile.  :-D17:33
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SDuensinWhat should the perms under /data/domains look like?18:16
@rizenthe uploads folder for each site should be owned recursively by nobody 18:17
@rizenother than that it doesn't matter much as long as the web server can get to the uploads folder18:17
@rizenand write logs in the logs folder18:18
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@rizennuba, how is the google maps thing coming?19:04
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SDuensinIT'S DOING IT!  httpd is freaking out again.  Load is 17.  WTF?!23:01
@rizenlook in modperl error log?23:02
SDuensinI have one httpd process from the WRE that has 87.5% of my RAM.23:02
@rizendo you have wre monitor configured?23:02
SDuensinPretty sure I do.23:03
SDuensinWide character in print at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/Output.pm line 96.23:03
SDuensinOut of memory!23:03
SDuensin[Mon Jul 23 20:41:11 2007] [notice] child pid 10138 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)23:03
SDuensinOut of memory!23:03
SDuensinI also get these in the modproxy log:23:04
SDuensin[Mon Jul 23 21:00:51 2007] [error] [client] proxy: error reading status line from remote server www.kevinmhuntfoundation.org23:04
SDuensin[Mon Jul 23 21:00:52 2007] [error] [client] proxy: Error reading from remote server returned by /guestbook/memoriallog23:04
@rizenthat's definitely not good, but i don't know what could be causing it23:05
@rizencould be the 64-bit stuff like you said23:05
@rizenwe don't have any 64bit boxes to play with it on23:05
SDuensinApparently someone tried to upload using the filepile.  But just a single image.23:05
@rizenyou could use a script like this set up to run once a minute in your crontab to kill the runaways23:06
@rizenthat's really only a short term bandaid23:06
SDuensinmem > 5 is 5% ?23:06
@rizenbut it's something23:07
SDuensinI know.  Something is much appreciated.23:07
@rizenwe use a script like that on servers with custom code in case the custom code causes any memory problems23:07
SDuensinSo what if wremonitor *isn't* running?  Grrr.23:08
@rizenwremonitor just checks stuff to make sure it's alive once in a while, and restarts it if it isn't23:08
@rizenit's a good thing to run, but you don't have to23:08
SDuensinWell, *all* my crontab stuff for WebGUI was commented out.  :-(23:08
@rizenlikewise, even if it is running, but wremonitor can't connect it will restart the service23:09
SDuensinStill gonna toss in the script you gave me.23:09
@rizenyeah...we run them both on the servers where we're worried about runaways23:10
@rizenyou might need to tweak that script i gave you though23:10
@rizencuz it uses top23:10
@rizenand top's output is a little different on different platforms23:10
SDuensinWow.  Nice regex.23:14
@rizensometimes you gotta do what you gotta do23:14
SDuensinWe need to get you a 64 bit box for the next WRE.23:16
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+perlDreamerhey, all!23:29
+perlDreamerWhat's happening in the WebGUI world?23:32
SDuensinIt's running wild!  It's consuming everything in sight!  Save the children!23:34
SDuensinSomething in the WRE is mad about running on x64.  Dunno WTF is going on.23:39
+perlDreamerwe need someone to volunteer an x64 box for WRE testing.23:41
SDuensinIf I can find one, it's all yours.  I'm just a bit low on extra hardware at the moment.23:43
+perlDreamerThey're not cheap, that's for sure.23:43
SDuensinThey're not exactly expensive either.23:44
+perlDreamerDo you mean a dedicated box, or shared, or VPS'ed?23:45
SDuensinI mean just to buy one and set it up under a desk somewhere.23:46
SDuensinAbout $300 on NewEgg to build a cheap one.23:52
SDuensinI'll poke around.  Maybe I can dig one up.23:52
SDuensinHowever, for now, I'm going home.  Later all!23:52
SDuensinThanks again, rizen - you rock!23:52
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--- Day changed Thu Jul 26 2007
+perlDreamerpreaction, Haarg: I'm building a new form for additional databaseLink parameters.  I was planning on using a 1 per line syntax.  Do you know if I have to handle Windows newlines as well as Unix newlines, or am I safe using Unix newlines?00:12
@preactioni'd probably go so far as to use JSON inside, or Storable qw(nfreeze), or something less plain-text00:13
@preactionbut why aren't we normalizing it?00:13
+perlDreamerNormalizing it?00:13
+perlDreamerTeach me, Obi-wan00:14
@preactionone column for each value00:15
@preactioninstead of storing data structures in the database that need to be translated somehow00:15
@preactioni mean, sure, we can perform regex matches to attempt to parse the datastructures using SQL queries, but that's just crazy00:16
+perlDreamerThen you'd have to add them dynamically as the user adds more parameters.00:16
@preactionwhat are these parameters being used for?00:17
@preactionand the new userProfileData table does exactly that00:17
+perlDreamerDatabaseLink, additional db parameters00:17
+perlDreamerIf it was generalized, I'd be happy to plug it into a new table00:17
@preactionparameters like what? more options to DBI->connect perhaps?00:18
+perlDreamerLongReadLen, LongTruncOK00:18
+perlDreamerSee SQL.pm, sub connect for examples.00:18
@preactionsomethink like that might be best served using JSON (then you can just jsonToObj, add the other params, and send it right to SQL->connect00:20
+perlDreamerSo the user will enter JSON into a text box for additional parameters?00:21
@preactionno, how the user does it is up to you00:23
+perlDreamerWell, that's what I started out asking.  About line endings.00:23
@preactioni'd imagine that a little javascript app would be best, with a list of param names and have them enter the value00:24
@preactionbut i think apache translates line endings for you00:24
* preaction gotta go look at house00:24
+perlDreamerGood luck. and thanks for your help00:25
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@rizenwahooo!!! wikis have attachmetns01:30
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@preactionrizen, is it alright to re-write your code for workflow/form helpers that requires turning off strictures with code that uses UNIVERSAL->can to get a reference to the subroutine? (we'll be able to detect if the sub exists before we try to call it)03:33
@preactionalso, is the www_spectreStatus in WebGUI::Operation::Spectre supposed to only allow people in the spectre subnets to see spectre's status via the admin console?03:34
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wgGuest07oh hi. I think I've talked with preaction before...03:55
wgGuest07I'm really stuck on something. I thought it was the lack of sleep, but I've duplicated it several times and I think Ifoudn a bug with 7.2.103:55
wgGuest07Oh and Hi Haarg!03:55
@preactionthat's to be expected, there's been at least a hundred bugs fixed since 7.2.1 was released03:56
wgGuest07So.  I've created a folder and then file piled images up.  Like 50-80 of them03:56
wgGuest07I then reference their url in an http proxied page03:56
wgGuest07I think I have 7.2.1, but I'd have to vpn to find out...03:56
wgGuest07and the image won't show up in the http proxy page. UNLESS I go to the image, edit it and save it without making changes03:57
@preaction7.3.22 was released today, so you'd have to reproduce there before we could do anything. http://demo.webgui.org <- if you can reproduce on a demo site, we can help you more03:57
wgGuest07it's weird. but I've done it several times.03:57
wgGuest07so my question is. I can deal with the bug fine, but I really don't want to modify all these images03:57
wgGuest07is there an fla being set when I "save" the image that I can set via SQL?03:58
@Haargis this a problem with thumbnails?03:59
wgGuest07nope. I'm referencing the imges them selves.03:59
wgGuest07I've even looked to see if they were in the uplaod directory and they are.03:59
@preactiontheir webgui URL or their url in the /uploads/XX/XX/XXXXXXXXX...03:59
wgGuest07I reference the webgui URL in the http proxied page.03:59
wgGuest07but eiher url (webgui or the uploads) will produce a 404 error unless I resave the image (without changing anything)04:00
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wgGuest07I should be a little more specific. I've I put the webgui or upload url in the address box in my broswer (forget the proxy page) I get a 404.04:02
wgGuest07geez I type to fast. hopefully people understood me.04:03
@preactionis that after you commit the changes? there seems to be an unspecific "Storage bug" fixed in 7.3.1104:03
@preactionif you can reproduce this behavior on a demo site, then i'd suggest posting a bug report on the bug list04:04
wgGuest07yep. the first time this happened was last night. I committed my changes. I've cleared my cached (rm -f method) and waited a day. Then I reproduced it several times today.04:04
@preactionbut can you reproduce on the latest webgui? http://demo.webgui.org <- make a demo, set up the situation, and see if it happens. is there someplace i can see this happening?04:05
@rizenpreaction: yes you can rewrite stuff to use UNIVERSAL->can04:06
@preactioni mean, we're talking 7.2.1 here, and admittedly though it's a roundabout bug, there've been at least a hundred bugs fixed since then, one of them might've been this one04:06
wgGuest07unfortunately it's behind our firewall right now. I'm doing the demo now. I hope I don't have to upload 80 photos to repro this.04:06
@rizenpreaction: no spectre status is supposed to work for admins04:06
@preactionrizen, okay, will fix04:07
wgGuest07I guess I was just hoping to have a sql update statement I can use or select query to see what maybe changing when I "save" an image. 04:07
@preactionwgGuest07, since i'm not sure what's causing it, i don't know what you or i could do to fix it04:08
wgGuest07what table is the data stored in for images?04:09
wgGuest07I uploaded one photo on webgui demo and it seemed to work I haven't tried 80 photos yet.04:09
@preactionwgGuest07, asset, assetData, File, and Image04:09
@rizenFileAsset and ImageAsset actually04:09
@rizencrap fuck crap fuck04:10
@preactionthat... doesnt'... sound... good...04:10
@rizenall the changes i made to the upgrade script were lost when Haarg renamed it04:10
@rizenwhich he was suppsoed to do04:10
@rizennot his fault04:10
@rizensvn's fault04:10
wgGuest0780 photos is a pain. I'll look at those tables to see if anything changes when I "resave" an image. Thanks!04:11
@rizeni'm 99.99999% sure that bug is fixed in a later version wgGuest0704:11
@preactionwgGuest07, i believe away back when there was a bug that caused a new storage location to be created every time you saved a file/image asset04:11
@rizencheck the change log if you like, but i'm sure i remember someone fixed that04:11
wgGuest07what table is the storage location kept? because if I go directly to the directory it says the image is in, its there. even though I get a 404. I copied pasted so I shouldn't have had typo errors going on.04:12
wgGuest07so maybe the storage location wasn't "saved" when I filepiled.04:13
@preactionwgGuest07, it's in the FileAsset table04:13
wgGuest07ok. I'll watch that specific field. I can't do anythign now, because I'm not vpned in.  Thanks! I might be back later. 04:14
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wgGuest07how do you log out of this? I'm using plainblacks provided software...04:16
@preactionjust close it04:16
wgGuest07k bye04:16
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@rizenit's amazing how many people use that web thing04:16
@rizenit's a pile compared to a real irc client04:16
@preactionit is04:16
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nubarizen: im working on the asset now, and keeping the deadline in mind04:43
nubarizen: just replied to your email04:43
@rizenshall i assume that you just started on the asset today?04:44
@rizenbased upon what you've said, that's what it sounds like04:44
nubayes, i was working with googlemaps but outside webgui until today04:46
nubai was planning to do that sooner but some local issues kept me busy these last days04:47
nubabut I usually perform better under tight deadlines and high pressure, so I hope it will turn out a good asset :)04:48
nubathats seriously04:48
@rizeni'm concerned that we're only 2 days away and you're just starting. my concern is for the stability of the code04:49
nubai see. well I hope the code will pass your scrutinity04:50
nubai can say i follow some best practices while designing or coding something04:51
nubas/scrutinity/scrutiny/ 04:51
+Radix-wrkheh.. you got WebGUI running on your iphone yet rizen?  I hear someone has apache, python and various other apps running on it now :)05:22
@rizenof course i do05:22
@rizenactually runs pretty well05:22
+Radix-wrkno, I mean compiled and running as a webserver ;)05:22
@rizencan't get image magick to work05:22
@rizenthats what i'm saying05:22
+Radix-wrkOh.. cool!05:22
@rizeni have the WRE mostly working on it05:22
@rizeni'm actually just screwing with you. i've been so busy with 7.4 stuff that i haven't really had time to  play with any iphone hacking05:23
@rizeni've seen the article05:24
+Radix-wrkiphone doom is jsut around the corner :)05:24
@rizenjust haven't done anything with the info05:24
@rizenwhen i have the time the first thing i'm going to do is replace the SMS sound05:24
@rizenit's so quiet i can't even hear it05:24
+Radix-wrkheh.. I use the old ICQ sound for my SMS's - Uhoh!05:25
SDuensinOh no.  If they make Doom run on it, then I have to buy one.05:29
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wgGuest53hi. 05:45
wgGuest53am going to attempt an upgrade, but I think I may have modified some of the templates that webgui comes with. Are those going to be slammed over?05:46
@rizenyou created copies or modified the defaults?05:46
wgGuest53unfortunately, modified a couple of the defaults.  like assets and little things splattered around the system.05:47
@rizenwhether or not they get overwritten in that case depends upon whether there were any modifications by the developers to those templates....the core templates only get updated if a new feature was added or they needed to be modified to fix a bug05:48
@rizeneither way though, your old templates will still be in the system, due to the version control system05:49
wgGuest53oh. as a prior version to the upgrade?05:49
@rizenyou'll just have to go rescue them if they get written over05:49
wgGuest53is there a way I can query the database to see which ones I changed?05:49
@rizenyeah...anything new that happens will be in a new version tag specific to the upgrade05:49
@rizenjust go look for the version tag for the upgrades05:50
wgGuest53to see the ones *I* changed?05:50
@rizenoh...no not easily05:50
wgGuest53I have no idea which ones I've changed.  Maybe there is a modify date somewhere?05:51
@rizenit's possible, but requires quite a bit of database querying...more than i have time to help you with05:51
@rizenabsolutely there is on every single one05:51
@rizenbut you need something to compare it to05:51
wgGuest53well, the date ofthe last version? no? I'm running 7.2.1 yeah, it's me again. =05:52
@rizenthis query will get you started, but from there you'll need to figure it out:05:52
wgGuest53any help would be great!05:52
@rizenselect assetData.title, assetData.url, assetData.assetId, template.namespace from assetData left join template on assetData.assetId=template.assetId and assetData.revisionDate=template.revisionDate where template.revisionDate > unix_timestamp('2007-03-01') order by template.revisionDate desc05:54
@rizeni think that will work05:54
@rizenbut if it doesn't you're on your own troubleshooting05:54
wgGuest53That's fine. Thanks!05:55
wgGuest53hopefully an easier question. The reason why I never upgraded was because they Totally redid the calendar thing in 7.3.0 which scares me. What am I to expect?05:55
@rizenthe new calendar is absolutely amazing compared to the old calendar05:56
wgGuest53the gotchas says custom templates will be deleted. then in 7.38 they are purged, so how am I to get them back if I need it?05:56
wgGuest53hope it's amazing. Does it have an Rss feed? I hope so.05:57
@rizennot an RSS feed, it has an ical feed, which is the standard internet feed type for calendars05:57
@rizenit's what outlook and google and apple mail all use05:58
wgGuest53or is it so amazing that I won't need my templates?  does it replace my templates with it's own? or will I have a template-less calendar.05:58
wgGuest53I guess I haven't done this before. =(05:58
@rizenit replaces your templates with it's own05:58
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wgGuest53I've seen the ical. Do you recommend a site to read up on it?05:58
@rizenjust search google for ical06:00
wgGuest53hmm.  here's a thought. I'm the one with a bunch of 404 errors on my filepiled images. Is an upgrade going to fix the data? or do I still need to resave each one manually? (I haven't dug into the db yet)06:01
wgGuest53oh. I wasn't talking with rizen about that.. I was talking with preaction. I suppose you have no idea what I'm talking about =)06:02
@rizeni saw your discussion, and i honestly don't know if you have to manually resave each one or not06:03
@rizeni believe that perlDreamer was the one that fixed that problem, so check back tomorrow or later tonight and see if he's on06:04
@rizenhe can tell you06:04
@rizenor just upgrade...you'll know soon enough06:04
@rizenif you have to manually do it, you're in no worse shape than you're in right now06:04
wgGuest53I'm thinking this is a "tomorrow night" project. it's already late. probably a good idea to get some good sleep before this.  I'm a bit nervous....06:05
@rizenprobably a good idea06:08
@rizenand make sure you have a good clean backup06:08
@rizenBEFORE you start the upgrade06:08
wgGuest53I'm pretty sure it dumps every night. I've never done a recovery though. Hopefuly I don't need to.06:10
+Radix-wrkis this the image/thumbnails bug?06:10
wgGuest53mmm. image storage bug06:10
+Radix-wrkthe one where if you edit the picture it replaces it with the thumbnail instead?06:10
wgGuest53no, I filepiled a bunch of images, and they are all 404's until I "resave" them.06:11
+Radix-wrkOh.. ok.. haven't encountered that one.06:11
wgGuest53yeah, it's nasty when you file piled a boat load.  =)06:12
+Radix-wrkI bet!06:12
wgGuest53re upgrading: If I have uncommitted changes. what happens to them if i upgrade without committng first?06:12
wgGuest53where are my manners? Hi Radix-wrk.  =)06:13
@preactionwgGuest53, if you have uncommitted changes before you upgrade you'll have those same things after you upgrade.06:13
+Radix-wrkHiya :)06:13
wgGuest53oh good. Thanks everyone!! Have a good night. I'm sure I'll be back tomorrow night=)06:15
+Radix-wrkwgGuest53: can I suggest you get a regular irc client (xchat, mirc, etc) and join the channel that way, it's much nicer than the java based one06:16
+Radix-wrkand in our favour, you'll be more likely to stick around - always good to see new faces on here :)06:16
wgGuest53yes. you may suggest.  =)  06:16
+Radix-wrkheh k :)06:16
wgGuest53I'm on windows now. do you have recommendations? I dont' "chat" at all. other than with you guys.06:17
+Radix-wrkthere's lots of free windows clients.  I use xchat personally - www.silverex.org - but any of the others will work as well06:18
wgGuest53ok. I'll give those a try. Thanks again!06:19
+Radix-wrkgood luck with your upgrade :)06:19
wgGuest53thanks! bye.06:20
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@rizenwhaooo!! with that checkin i'm officially done with my must-have todo list for 7.406:27
@rizennow i can look into a few "what ifs"06:28
vaydehey rizen, I'll be in Madison on the 12th.  Got time for a brew?06:29
@rizenlet me check the calendar06:31
@rizeni'll be here, but we'll have to play it by ear. doing a mail server upgrade that weekend06:31
@rizengive me a call when you have some free time06:32
vaydeOk.  I'll be done with the troops about 16:00 or 16:3006:32
vaydeTechnically I'll be in Waunakee, but close enough.06:32
@rizenyeah...that's only a few miles from here06:33
@rizenactually, there's a great little pub between here and there06:33
vaydegot it.  I'll call you when I'm done with the class and see if you have time.06:34
@rizenvrby will be in town too cuz he's working on the mail server upgrade with me06:34
vaydeexcellent.  be good to tip a few back with you two.06:34
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@preactionjeebus, what haven't we added in 7.4?07:13
@rizenare you referring to all the tickets i'm closing?07:13
@rizenwe added quite a bit07:14
@preactioni mean, i knew a few of the big ones, but apparently there's been a lot of little things as well07:14
@rizenand i'm only doing a quick once over07:14
@Haargapparently my rewritten macro parser is anywhere from 10% to 1000% faster07:21
+Radix-wrkwoot.. that sounds good :)07:25
@rizen10 to 1000?07:25
@rizenwhy such a big difference?07:25
@rizenwhen i hear things that vary that much it makes me suspicious07:26
@Haargdepends on the complexity of the macros07:26
@Haargit's pretty consitant for each macro text i give it07:26
@rizenlike number and nesting?07:26
@Haargi'm going to add some more tests though07:26
@rizentake the output of the front page of your webgui install07:26
@rizencomment out macro processing so they are left in the HTML07:27
@rizenthen run your parser versus the original07:27
@rizenthat's an "average" webgui page07:27
@rizenrun it 10 times for each parser and average them07:27
@rizenthen you'll know07:27
+Radix-wrkare there any perl profilers?07:29
@Haargi'm using Benchmark07:29
@preactionworks under mod_perl with the right settings07:30
+Radix-wrkso that'd be the way youd want to benchmark that kind of stuff and measure performance then07:30
@rizenif you want a lot of detail that's the way you do it07:32
@rizenbut for quick benchmarking Time::HiRes is just as good07:32
@rizeni think i've officially closed as many tickets as i can07:33
@rizenthat's got to be close to 50 rfe's closed for this release07:33
@rizenpeople should be happy07:33
@rizenwhat am i saying. no one is ever happy.07:34
@preactioni'm happy?07:34
+Radix-wrkWho are these 'people' you speak of?  Do I know any of them?07:34
+Radix-wrkIf there is going to be any more 7.3.x releases - Could someone please apply my fix for the admin bar zindex bug - it's a one line change.07:36
@preactioni think Haarg tried to do it and replied that it didn't quite work?07:37
+Radix-wrkit definitely does07:37
@preactioni durno, the thread should have his reply07:37
+Radix-wrkjust add z-index: 100; to slidepanel.css in the first css block07:38
+Radix-wrk(to .slidePanel)07:38
+Radix-wrkAhh.. it's actually a different bug - just sounded the same. My bad.07:41
+Radix-wrkthe z-index fix I made definitely fixes the zenlike theme problem07:41
@rizenradix, no more 7.3 releases07:41
+Radix-wrkand 7.4 won't use the same adminbar, right?07:42
@rizenas of right now it still is07:42
@rizeni'm going to work on that tomorrow07:42
+Radix-wrkk, cool - not worth worrying over then07:42
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@rizenwell, i'm outty. ttyl08:15
@preactionbeautiful. only 1 hour of bugfixing / testing for 10 hours of coding. that's better than the usual projected 25%09:21
@preactionadmin console now can give permissions on a per-panel basis09:21
@preactioni believe this was one of your RFE's, jesse09:27
@preactionit's not very granular, but all the existing groups are represented, and every panel has at least one group. it's also written in such a way to make future, more granular permissions easy to implement09:33
@preactionoh sunnuva bitch i just did what JT did earlier...09:33
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+Radix-wrkpreaction: you could probably close my other rfe related to that item btw - http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/finer-control-of-admin-privileges10:06
@preactiondepends, do you want to modify that RFE to include the granularity?10:07
@preactioni mean, imho the current granularity is just about right. but i can close this one and then later someone can open a new one with more specific needs10:08
+Radix-wrkI don't know how your stuff works - but I'd say close it and if I need more granularity then I'll open a new one10:08
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+Radix-wrkAll I want is to be able to give user admin to some users - ie. list/add/delete/reset passwords/etc, but not for them to have complete site admin privs10:09
@preactiona 25 difficulty? wtf was he thinking? and he gave the other one a 3 difficulty. it actually took me 12 hours :p10:09
+Radix-wrkyeah, jt doesn't like my rfe's :)10:10
@preactionthat'll be possible, easily10:10
@preactionwell, we've also had two clients ask for that same feature10:10
+Radix-wrkbonus :)10:10
@preactionwe actually implemented it once with uiLevels, and the result is less than awesome10:11
@preactionmy new code only shows the user those admin tabs that they can actually use ;)10:11
@preactionwell, except for the weird admin functions, like the asset manager, trash, and other stuff that's done as part of WebGUI::Asset (and not as a WebGUI::Operation)10:13
+Radix-wrkthat's what you want.. if they can't see it, they can't f**k it up ;)10:13
@preactionwell, they could be able to see it, but not be able to actually use it (get a "Permission denied" error when clicking on it)10:13
@preactionbut that's just sloppy craftsmanship10:13
* Radix-wrk dumps a few thousand karma on http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/attache-deletes-to-version-tags10:16
+Radix-wrkJT should've made that easier tho, surely it isn't a difficulty 15 to do that10:16
@preactionthe problem is it's a sweeping change10:16
@preactionwhen you're part of that version tag it must appear as if that asset is deleted10:17
@preactionit's not the work that's hard, it'll be the tracking down all the caveats10:17
@preactioni mean, there are still places that do not use AssetLineage to get assets (AL being able to do what this requires)10:17
+Radix-wrkThe way we have to do it now is mark an item as content managers only - and tag it for deletion - then once that version tag has been implemented we delete it.10:18
@preactioni do like the idea though10:18
@preactionperlbot math 9000 / 1510:18
@preactioni could bump it up a bit10:18
@preactionwait, does that delete the asset when the tag is deleted? or when the tag is committed?10:19
+Radix-wrkwhen the tag is committed10:19
@preactionbut then we lose the biggest thing about versioning: the ability to rollback10:20
+Radix-wrkdeletes aren't subject to that anyway10:20
@preactioncurrently, no, but it'd be nice10:20
+Radix-wrkbut it's a step in the right direction :)10:20
@preactionif you create what amounts to be an empty asset (basically as barren as possible) and if its status is "approved" and deleteTag is defined, the asset is now deleted10:21
@preactionthen you could rollback that revision and it'd be undeleted10:21
+Radix-wrkOh.. 10:22
@preactioncurrently, all fields in the asset tables need to be able to be undefined anyway, so it'd be possible to do without horrific problems10:22
+Radix-wrkif you created it in that version tag, and deleted it in that version tag - then it wouldn't exist at all10:22
@preactionthat'd be a special case, you wouldn't set deleteTag, you'd just remove it10:23
@preactionbasically only if the asset is already "approved" would a new revision be added10:23
+Radix-wrksounds good.. ship it! :)10:24
@preactionthere are precedents, only CS with one "approved" version are allowed to have children, for example10:24
@preactioncaveat: urls wouldn't be released10:27
@preactionand we already have the trash, do we really need this?10:28
@preactiongood idea, but unnecessary and too difficult to need10:29
@preactionjust being able to see what will happen before you move an asset to the trash is probably good enough10:29
+Radix-wrkdeletes are one of the major things that doesnt' fit into version tags at the moment tho10:29
@preactionright, but i assume that the "delete" is actually "move to trash"10:29
@preactionso it'd be possible to recover from the trash if necessary10:30
+Radix-wrkthe big advantage with version tags is that you can work on the site and then deploy the changes in one hit10:30
+Radix-wrkWe use it for every major software release, we make changes to a number of pages, restructure things, etc and get everything ready for the day we actually ship it and want to make it available.10:31
@preactionright, that's handled under the current RFE10:31
+Radix-wrkJT's RFE yes10:32
@preactionwhat i was thinking of would basically replace the Trash10:32
+Radix-wrkisn't that what we were talking about?10:33
@preactioni think i actually proposed this earlier10:33
@preactioni was saying being able to rollback a delete AFTER it's committed10:33
@preactionbut i forgot about the trash10:33
+Radix-wrkAhh.. yes, trash would cover that case.10:33
+Radix-wrkthough surely a version tag rollback would do the same thing10:34
@preactionno, once the tag is committed, the commit process would see "hmm... we have a deleteTag, okay, time to move this asset to the trash" and everyting would go on as normal10:34
@preactionwait, isn't that what the trash-limbo state is for?10:35
@preactionmeh, durno, way too late for me to be doing heavy thinking10:36
* Radix-wrk looks at the 10 day weather forecast for Amsterdam and sees a lot of rainy days ahead.10:36
+Radix-wrk3 days before I leave on my webgui sabbatical - and only one working day to go after today.10:38
* Radix-wrk is pretty excited :)10:39
+Radix-wrkI'm spending two weeks with Oqapi in delft, netherlands and immersing myself in webgui, perl and sql and learning everything I can off martin and the other oqapi guys.10:42
+Radix-wrkthen my gf joins me and we set off around europe together for 6 weeks.10:42
+Radix-wrkwith a brief stop in vienna for the YAPC::Europe perl conference10:43
+Radix-wrkjudging from the talks at the conference, 90% or so of it is going to go woosh above my head as my knowledge of perl is still very basic, but by the end of it I hope I'll have absorbed something :)10:44
@preactionthat's what i've been doing with languages, just listening until i start getting Something ;)10:44
@preactionhell, that's why you're here, no?10:44
+Radix-wrkheh.. you can follow our blog if you like - http://jesseandyumi.blogspot.com/10:44
+Radix-wrkyep - a lot of it goes over my head here, but every now and then I can help out too10:44
+Radix-wrkand yeah, learn by absorption10:45
@preactionokay, i guess i'm ignorant american here, but don't you need to know some other languages to go to these places?10:45
+Radix-wrkI'm a C++ programmer, so familiar with programming, just unfamiliar with perl - and very unfamiliar with perl libraries and development10:45
+Radix-wrkpreaction: heh.. I hope not - I only know english myself - but I'll have a phrasebook with me ;)10:46
@preactioni mean, i want to tool around europe for a while someday as well, so i'm trying to learn French (took some in school so doing that one first) and Spanish. then later in life I want to visit India and/or Japan10:46
@preactionjeebus. you're going to do all of this in just 8 weeks?10:47
+Radix-wrkIndia they speak english pretty well these days ;)10:47
+Radix-wrkLOL - yeah, scary isn't it :)10:47
+Radix-wrkthe amsterdam - paris bit is all part of a packaged tour10:48
+Radix-wrkwe'll be doing all of that in just 12 days.. so it's a lightning tour with only rome, switzerland and paris being stopped at for more than one day I think10:48
+Radix-wrkthen we're off to vienna for the conference (she's going to be exploring vienna while I attend it for three days)10:49
+Radix-wrkWe're going to be sick of planes, trains and buses by the end of it I'm sure :)10:50
@preactionoh i imagine10:50
@preactionbut, oh, the places you'll go10:50
+Radix-wrkyeah :)10:50
+Radix-wrklooking forward to that side of things :)10:50
+Radix-wrkI just hope the weather improves a bit! :)10:51
@preactionit's europe, isn't it getting up on the rainy season?10:51
+Radix-wrkwell, it's their summer - but yeah, they've been getting a lot of rain lately10:51
@preactionwait, a phrasebook? you've got like 5-6 languages here10:52
+Radix-wrkgot a generic european one with all the basic phrases in it actually :)10:52
@preactionbonne chance mon ami10:52
+Radix-wrkabout 6-7 languages10:52
@preactionje parles francais en peu, mais je parles anglais tres bien10:53
+Radix-wrkand if they can't speak english.. there's always hand signals :)10:53
@preactiontrue that10:53
+Radix-wrkJust hope I don't hit on the wrong combination and offend someone ;)10:53
@preactionMY MOTHER WAS A SAINT!10:54
@preactionje voudrais une royale avec fromage!10:54
+Radix-wrkhehe ;)10:54
@preactionanyway, i think bedtime. 3:00am isn't bad these days10:55
+Radix-wrkthe blog I created a couple of days ago and it's pretty cool.. I can email my photos to a special flickr account and it puts them all in my flickr account and also creates a blog post for me with the text and links the photos on it.10:55
@preactionttyl, if i don't get a chance have fun on your trip10:55
+Radix-wrkWill do :)10:55
+Radix-wrknite doug :)10:55
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@rizensome people stay up way too late talking15:52
SDuensinI think I found a fix for my WRE problem...15:56
SDuensinI erased the server.  :-)15:56
SDuensinI found out that I can get a 32 bit OS on it.15:56
@rizenseems drastic, but if it works, who cares15:59
SDuensinWell, 64 bit was going nowhere.  Not only did I have the issues with the WRE running wild, but you couldn't upload anything.16:01
@rizennot to mention that you weren't likely going to get any help fixing it since we don't have a way to test on 64 bit yet16:02
SDuensinYup.  :-)16:02
SDuensinI'm still asking around to get you root space on a 64 bit box somewhere.16:02
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cap10morganIs it possible to set some properties of an asset as required? So when someone deploys a new one or edits an existing one, they have to set this property or it won't save.20:23
@rizenwhat's the problem you're trying to solve?20:24
cap10morgani have a custom asset that we deploy quite a bit (glorified dataform, basically), but my content folks often forget to set one of the properties in it and it makes it just not work20:24
cap10morganso i was hoping i could spit an error at them when they try to do that20:24
@rizenso this is an asset you wrote?20:25
@rizenthere is an error handler mechanism you could employ to force it if you like20:25
@rizeni thought you were talking about core assets20:25
cap10morganah, sorry, nope20:26
cap10morganok, i'll look into that20:26
@rizenhere's how it works20:27
@rizenin processPropertiesFromFormPost20:27
@rizenall you have to do is return an error message20:27
@rizenthen the new object will be purged20:27
@rizenand you'll be returned to the edit screen20:27
@rizenalong with the error message20:27
cap10morganok, cool20:27
@rizenyou can see an example of this in SQL Form20:28
* SDuensin is 32 bit again! Whooo!20:31
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SDuensinIn modperl.error.log, is this bad?21:55
SDuensin[Thu Jul 26 06:50:23 2007] [warn] Init: Session Cache is not configured [hint: SSLSessionCache]21:55
cap10morganrizen: at the last WUC you or someone else was saying that you guys were working on a WebGUI third-party developers directory kinda thing. has any progress been made on that?22:34
@rizeni did?22:35
cap10morganmay not have been you :)22:35
@rizenit must have been someone else22:35
cap10morgansome PB staff person though22:35
@rizenmaybe it was frank22:35
cap10morganthey said PB had too much going on, so they wanted to get a network of certified third-party providers together to send folks to22:35
@rizenhe was thinking about implementing some sort of a bounty network22:35
@rizenwe certainly do have a lot going on. are you interested in doing some contract work?22:36
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cap10morganpossibly, but i'm mainly interested in who all i should be submitting requests for quotes and proposals to for webgui work22:37
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cap10morganwe also have a lot more going on than we can handle internally :)22:37
@rizenwell we have a network of developers that we use, so you can submit it to us, and if we can't handle it we'll either manage it and bring in contract developers, or hand it off directly22:38
@rizenmost of our developers though don't like doing the project management part of it22:38
@rizenso we usually do that, and then they do the work22:38
@rizenwe always have more than we can handle, but we always seem to get stuff done on time too. that's the beauty of a contractor pool i guess22:40
@preactioncouldn't we set up a forum on the webgui.org site for webgui job postings?22:41
@rizenwe could but then they aren't qualified22:41
@rizenthat's the problem with hiring someone out of the netherworld22:42
@preactioni'm saying for other people to use, plainblack can do what plainblack does, cap10morgan wanted a way to get in touch with contractors (i think)22:42
cap10morganpreaction: yep22:43
@rizenand he can just post out there for that sort of thing22:43
@rizenwhat i'm saying though is that he's not going to know who he's getting hiring from the netherworld22:43
@preactionwith an auction asset in "bid down" mode, you could submit a job with a proposed completion time and/or cost and have the contractors bid on it ;)22:43
@preactiontrue enough22:44
cap10morgani realize it's sort of not in your best interest to help potential clients find other providers of the services you guys sell, but since frank mentioned something about it at the wuc, i thought i'd ask :)22:44
@preactionbut same is true for any job-posting site really, you'd need to interview and conduct your own screening process22:44
@rizenin the end people mostly come back to us anyway even if they end up going somewhere else first22:44
@rizenso it's not as big of a burden as one might think22:45
@preactionwell, we are the best22:45
* preaction pats himself on the back22:45
@rizeneither the person they hired to build it did a bad job or isn't getting it done on time22:45
@rizenor that person did the initial work, but now doesn't want to do the maintenance work or the add-ons22:45
@rizeneither way most people end up coming back to us22:45
SDuensinIt's cause we love you, rizen.22:46
@rizeni think it's just the difference between hiring a freelancer and a company22:46
@rizenthe company is always there, the freelancer can do the gig and leave22:46
@preactionwhich means it's almost like a lead-in to an account with plainblack ;)22:46
@rizenanybody have IE7 to test with?23:15
@rizenand can check out from subversion?23:15
@rizeni need to make sure the new admin bar will work with 723:15
@rizenor for that matter i can send you a zip file to test with23:17
@preactioni can do that23:17
@preactioni can't checkout, my test env is not visible to my IE currently23:17
@preactionbut i can look at the zip file23:17
@rizenit's just html23:17
@rizenno perl23:17
@rizenok zip file is on it's way23:19
@rizenoh crap23:19
@rizeni just realized that it's looking for yui and everything too23:19
@rizenyou won't be able to test it that way23:19
@rizeni'll have to find another way23:20
@preactionyou can use the URLs from yahooapis.com if you want23:20
@preactionhttp://yui.yahooapis.com/2.2.2/build/yahoo/yahoo-min.js <- like that23:21
@rizengraham is brilliant23:22
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@preactionrizen, works beautifully in IE723:32
@rizensweet, thanks23:38
@rizenjust tested in ie7 myself seems to work there too23:39
@rizensorry, i mean ie623:39
@rizeninterestingly enough it doesn't work in ie323:39
@rizenbut it does downgrade23:39
@preactionyou mean ie3 actually renders the thing?23:40
@rizenit renders it as a definition list23:40
@rizenso yes23:40
@rizenit renders it23:40
@preactionnot bad23:40
@rizennow i just have to integrate it in with the current monster so that people don't have to update their templates23:41
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+crythiasso then I wooted the other day to get those usb sd cards...23:47
+crythias'cause I wanted to have some portable bootable DamnSmall Linux. because I could.23:47
+crythiasyeah. a bootable Os to fit in your wallet.23:48
+crythiasand then someone suggested to me that I might try to put WebGUI on one. 'cept it might be hard to compress down to 512MB. Maybe. 23:48
+crythiasbut then, what to call it?23:49
+crythiasA-ha! PenGUI23:49
+crythiasand then I thought... how cool is that? It's like penguin without the N.23:49
+crythiasah. fun times, fun times. 23:49
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* crythias paypals y'all a quarter so ya ken pay attention.23:50
@rizencrythias...i'm taking your advice23:54
@rizenthe new adminbar is going to use position:fixed instead of sliding23:54
@rizenand i found a trick to make that work in ie623:54
+crythiaswhat the heck made those word come from your fingertips?23:54
@rizenit's just a better way to go23:55
@rizenthe thing that changed my mind was that i found a way to work around the problem in ie623:55
+crythiasum. but you're still going to shift content on the page, though, right?23:55
@rizenthat is until i get the new admin console up and running23:56
@rizenthen all the content will be in an iframe, so i won't need to shift it over23:56
+crythiasmmhm. that makes sense to me.23:56
@rizenthis is a stop gap, cuz it's going to take a really long time to do what i want to do with the admin console23:57
@rizenmainly cuz i'm slow at javascripting23:57
@preactionwhy would apache be consistently stopping sending a page when it reaches 1.32M23:57
+crythiaswell, cool.23:57
@rizenpreaction: no idea23:58
+crythiasand I'm trying to figure out something about the difference between desktop publishing, asset positioning and tinymce javascript.23:58
+crythiasbut you solved the issue before I thought too hard about it.23:59
--- Day changed Fri Jul 27 2007
+crythiasthe long and short was trying to figure out if there was a way to combine tinymce and asset positioning in a text area. I can't explain it much more than a microcosm of the admin mode in a text area.00:00
+crythiasadmin mode/page layout00:00
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dannymkHi everyone02:11
dannymkdoes anyone know what is the current version of yui for the latest version of WebGUI?02:12