WebGUI irc logs from: 2007-08.log

--- Log opened Wed Aug 01 00:00:33 2007
xootom	i remember that copying an asset doesn't also copy its children, is there any way of doing so? (is that the intended copy behaviour or a limitation of wg?)	00:20
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Radix-europe	Is there still a developers site for webgui somewhere? Where is that located now?	12:18
Radix-europe	I recall there being a site with api documentation and the like somewhere	12:18
Radix-europe	Ahh.. API in the wiki has the link	12:21
xootom	hi radix, i got the addusers script passing through using the pass thru, it now executes fine but nothing seems to happen when i try adding users, no error message (unless I omit username etc). Have you tried it with 7.4.0 yourself?	13:01
Radix-europe	hmm.. not with 7.4 no	13:36
Radix-europe	try calling it from the command line	13:36
Radix-europe	see if it spits out any errors	13:36
Radix-europe	it should work with the 7.4 api fine (well.. unless someone changed something in the api that broke it! ;)	13:37
Radix-europe	i remember being told that the api is fixed for two years at last years WUC tho :)	13:39
xootom	ahh thanks that's working now :) when running from command line could see a path error on the config	14:43
xootom	is it possible to assign the user to a group>	14:44
Radix-europe	it is, but not using that code I'm afraid	15:07
Radix-europe	We do our groups using sql lookups to determine membership, so I never needed it when I wrote that code	15:08
Radix-europe	you could probably adapt the code from the userimport script tho	15:08
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xootom	ok thanks	15:57
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SDuensin	Good morning.	16:06
+MrHairgrease	hi	16:06
@rizen	thank you radix	16:19
Radix-europe	?	16:25
@rizen	for adding keywords to a bunch of wiki stuff	16:25
Radix-europe	Ahh.. I saw the keywords there and thought.. cool.. might add a few :)	16:25
Radix-europe	found a duplicate developers guide too so wiped one of them and kept the newer one	16:26
@rizen	hopefully everybody else does the same...i think it will make it easier for people to find stuff	16:26
@rizen	cool	16:26
Radix-europe	yup, definitely	16:26
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Radix-europe	when I say wiped I mean blanked it out.. I can't actually delete it	16:26
@rizen	oh, do you know the url so i can do it?	16:27
@rizen	nevermind	16:27
@rizen	found it	16:27
Radix-europe	yeah, on top of the wiki list	16:27
Radix-europe	the tags are pretty cool :)	16:27
Radix-europe	only thing I realised while doing it is that we want to almost standardise on the keywords used in some ways	16:28
@rizen	that's the problem with all tagging systems	16:28
Radix-europe	true	16:29
@rizen	there is a method in the api to merge two tags into one	16:29
@rizen	buut i couldn't figure out a clean way of exposing that to the UI	16:29
Radix-europe	I was using the wiki a bit today looking up how to do things anyway, so just added the keywords while doing so :)	16:29
@rizen	so for now, it will just have to be a command line script or something	16:29
@rizen	i'm glad to know someone uses it	16:30
@rizen	i was afraid nobody was	16:30
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Radix-europe	I like your webgui lite idea btw	16:30
Radix-europe	but couldn't find anywhere to post comments on it :)	16:30
Radix-europe	I was thinking about how packages and themes are done at the moment will need to be simplified - and would be nice if it was	16:31
Radix-europe	atm there's quite a few steps to import a theme like zenlike, etc.. would be nice to make it automatic somehow.. ie. select theme and voila.. applied to every page, navigation working, etc	16:32
@rizen	there i've enabled comments	16:32
@rizen	sorry, just didn't realize i hadn't before	16:32
Radix-europe	np	16:32
@rizen	that sort of concept only works on small sites	16:33
@rizen	on large sites you could really **** someone by automatically and indescriminently applying a theme to every page	16:33
Radix-europe	yeah, but that's what you're aiming at with webgui lite, no? :)	16:33
Radix-europe	I know :)	16:33
@rizen	yeah, but that doesn't mean that all of webgui should function to serve the small guy	16:33
@rizen	it has to be a balance, and that balance is usually going to be applied using switches	16:34
@rizen	outside of the reach of the small guy	16:34
@rizen	make decisions for them	16:34
Radix-europe	Sure.. perhaps a theme wizard that looks for themes in /styles or something like that and then will apply them if they select it	16:34
@rizen	my thought on that was actually to make it a step in the site starter	16:34
@rizen	upload a theme and it will be automatically applied	16:35
Radix-europe	sounds good	16:35
@rizen	anyway...i'm glad to hear someone is actually reading the blog too, i thought it might only be a couple of people, but lately i've heard from many people who are reading it	16:36
Radix-europe	I read it all :)	16:36
* MrHairgrease has nothing better to do either =)		16:36
Radix-europe	hehe	16:37
@rizen	well now that comments are enabled, i hope to see you guys not only reading, but throwing out feedback	16:38
Radix-europe	Well if I come up with any other ideas I will :)	16:40
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AMH_henry	I was looking through the 7.4.0 source code when I saw that WebGUI::AssetClipboard::www_copy is modified to allow duplication of an asset including its children. What I cannot find is where in the UI this feature is enabled. Any ideas?	17:07
@rizen	it's when you click on the copy button	17:10
AMH_henry	yes, but it's looking for with as form parameter. I don't see that one posted anywhere	17:10
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@rizen	?func=copy;with=children	17:19
Radix-europe	Speaking of 7.4 - just checked out the new site starter - seems pretty good, though it seems to create the default pages regardless - is this intentional or going to be fixed later?	17:22
@rizen	it has to create the default pages...they have lots of good information on them like how to log in	17:22
@rizen	and the introductory movie	17:22
@rizen	and where to go to get more information	17:23
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Radix-europe	Hmm.. I don't necessarily agree	17:23
Radix-europe	Would be nice to have an option for that	17:24
@rizen	this is the part where i get to tell you that i have scorn for 7 generations of your family and it doesn't matter what you think	17:24
Radix-europe	For a new user - offer them a tutorial or something perhaps, but an user who's already used webgui before the first thing they will have to do is go and delete the pages etc	17:24
@rizen	yeah, but those experienced users will at least know how to do that	17:25
@rizen	stop whining you whiny whiner	17:25
Radix-europe	Sure, but surely there should be an option to turn it off or not have it if you don't want it ;)	17:25
@rizen	this is the part where i get to tell you that i'm not an rfe list	17:25
elnino	time for a topic change? =)	17:26
Radix-europe	hehe.. sounds like it ;)	17:26
@rizen	no, i'm just having fun with radix	17:26
elnino	ok. you maay continue. =)	17:26
@rizen	or maybe at the expense of radix	17:26
Radix-europe	I'm just giving my 2c :)	17:26
@rizen	and i'm just throwing hate back in your face	17:27
@rizen	so i think we're even	17:27
@rizen	=)	17:27
Radix-europe	uhuh	17:27
@rizen	ok, let me actually defend my position in a civilized manner rather than just throwing out fud	17:27
AMH_henry	@rizen: thanx. link works great	17:27
+crythias	hey. I think we should make webgui be php	17:28
+crythias	no, no. I mean asp	17:28
@rizen	1) experienced users know how to delete pages	17:28
@rizen	2) it only takes a few seconds to do so	17:28
+crythias	webgui as application	17:28
@rizen	3) if you expose an option to delete the default pages noobs are going to click on it because they're noobs	17:28
@rizen	and can't help themselves	17:28
+crythias	:ACK: blank page!	17:29
+crythias	It's like I'm in WP5.1 DOS all over again	17:29
Radix-europe	okay - argument against	17:29
+crythias	or vim for that matte	17:29
@rizen	4) currently the site starter doesn't need to know anything about what pages are in the database and therefore can function even for companies who create their own create.sql to start, which lots of hosting companies do	17:29
+crythias	matter	17:29
Radix-europe	1) it's annoying having to delete them every time	17:30
Radix-europe	2) they take up hard disk space and reserve urls	17:30
Radix-europe	3) they're redundant once you've read them once - and could easily simply be on the webgui site	17:30
Radix-europe	since that's where you'd presumably downloaded webgui from anyway	17:30
Radix-europe	an option to either not add them, or even a command line option to addsite or something would cater for everyone - new and old user alike	17:32
elnino	are we discussing on whether to have default pages deletable in a new installation?	17:32
Radix-europe	yes	17:32
elnino	how about making it an option during installtion?	17:33
elnino	ie: install default pages, or not	17:33
Radix-europe	woohoo.. exactly what I've been asking for	17:33
Radix-europe	Anyway.. I see I won't get anywhere this way, so I'll try making an RFE for it	17:34
@rizen	the rfe isn't going to help you if you can't defend your argument	17:34
@rizen	your bullet points are good so far	17:34
@rizen	but they don't adequately address 3 and 4	17:34
@rizen	of mine	17:34
elnino	are # 3 and 4 referring to the person installing? or the person that is doing the content manageent?	17:35
@rizen	3 is referring to the new person coming to the webgui demo site, or a brand new webgui hosting site for the first time	17:36
Radix-europe	#3 can be addressed by simply explaining what the option does - and suggesting that users who are new to webgui click here (ie. recommended or something like that)	17:37
elnino	to me, the person installing isn't necessarily the person doing the content management. so to have the option to not install the pages during installation does seem to address #3a dn 4	17:38
@rizen	4 is referring to the many hosting companies out there that create their own create.sql files that are loaded rather than the default webgui create.sql file and therefore has information in it that we wouldn't know how to delete...or worse yet, they've just edited the default pages and so they have their default content which they don't want deleted using our asset ids	17:38
Radix-europe	#4 - Well it depends how this is implemented - if the default pages are put in a separate sql file and run only when selected then this would solve this	17:38
elnino	the content managemnt person can delete the pages manually if they want and when they want.	17:38
@rizen	radix: wrong on number 3 again, because PEOPLE DON'T READ	17:38
@rizen	they just click	17:38
elnino	but only the installer can decide whether to isntall them or not, and it would be to their benift to install them i f the content managers are noobs	17:39
Radix-europe	Sure they do - if you have a big fat (recommended) next to it and it's the default option they'll click it every time	17:39
@rizen	the default pages are not and will not be in a seperate SQL file	17:39
@rizen	it's just not possible to do that	17:39
Radix-europe	why not?	17:40
@rizen	have you seen the database schema?	17:40
xootom	is the default site configurable by the super administrator.., so if i'm offering a hosted webgui service, i could have a skeleton that i'd like created for all new sites with info on how to get support from myself, and that would be the new user's default each time, and give them a basic set of pages like contact, forums, gallery...	17:41
Radix-europe	xootom; at the moment the default site is hardcoded in the sql file - I'm arguing to change that a bit and make it easier for hosters to do exactly that	17:42
@rizen	look guys, i've got to get back to work. i don't have time to explain how all the internals of webgui work so that you can understand my argument. submit your RFE, and if it makes it to the top then we'll figure out a way to make it work	17:42
elnino	topic change? =)	17:43
xootom	could it use asset copy with children to copy a sub-tree out of the import node	17:43
elnino	or a package	17:43
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xootom	makes sense to me	17:43
AMH_henry	how about separate the default pages from create.sql and put them in a separate perl script instead?	17:44
elnino	suggested already... =)	17:44
elnino	I have a qeustion about rssfeeds	17:45
AMH_henry	rizen said that it cannot go to an new sql file, but a perl script is much easier to maintain	17:45
elnino	what does the "enable rssfeeds" do other than create a child "rss from parent' asset? i would have expectd it to provide an asset that allows a person to get the url of the feed.	17:46
elnino	or does is simply enable the ability, and I have to create the asset that gives the url to the user?	17:46
elnino	my guess is that the amount of sql statements it takes to create the default site is too huge for a perl script.	17:47
AMH_henry	we use scripts here to create pages directly as assets, no sql required	17:48
elnino	I don't know then.	17:49
xootom	can anyone help with a problem i've got, i must have overlooked something simple. can I pull an sql report, reporting on members of my class (which is a group) - so something like select * from results where group=myclass, so i can only see results for people in my class. Is there a macro to find the name of my group?	17:49
elnino	I think you can do that in the administrative side. View users in this group sort of thing.	17:50
@Haarg	there's a template variable rss.url to get the url for the rss feed	17:50
elnino	Haarg: is that only availabl ewhen I 'enable rss'?	17:51
xootom	yeah but i need the results of the sql report that only contain people in the group	17:51
@Haarg	yes. and it points to the 'RSS from Parent' asset.	17:52
elnino	right, it's in the administrave screen, or is your requirement to have it in a sql report?	17:52
elnino	thanks haarg.	17:52
Radix-europe	http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/option-to-not-get-the-default-pages-when-you-create-a-new-webgui-site	17:52
xootom	yes the sql report needs to show different data depending on the group i'm in, so i see data related to my group	17:53
elnino	xootom: if you enbable debugging: would it display the sql statements being run from the administriave screen so you can copy it to create your sql report?	17:54
xootom	maybe but that would be the static statement wouldnt it? i need a placeholder in my sql report that reflects the current user's group at the time (if that makes sense)	17:55
elnino	oh. I'm pretty sure there is a macro that gives you your group. Use that macro in the sql statement that you grab from the debugging.	17:56
elnino	I have another question: I'm setting a scratch variable in a macro that is called from a sql-based group: $session->scratch->set("loginat","here");	17:57
elnino	And then I'm reading it from a displayLogin in my Auth.pm module: $self->session->scratch->get("loginat");	17:57
elnino	but it doesn't seeem to be able to get it. I read somewhere that scratch variables are renamed, is this the case in which it renames scratch variables?	17:57
elnino	are scratch variables cookies or session variables?	17:57
@Haarg	they are linked to your session	17:58
elnino	is there a way to dump your session variables? because i can set them and read them just fine within the auth module, but not when it's set in a macro and then retrieved from the auth mod.	17:59
@Haarg	there isn't a macro to get your group. i'm not sure how that would work even, given that users can be in multiple groups.	18:00
@Haarg	you could look in the database, in the userSessionScratch table	18:00
elnino	thanks haarg.	18:01
elnino	xootom, haarg: oh.. I think I've been able to dump groups some how. I'll have to log off to get it. (site is behind I firewall, and I have to vpn to get there) I'll be back, if you can wait?	18:01
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xootom	yeah :) thanks	18:02
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elnino_	xootom. I don't have a macro, but if you create a macro that calls $u->getGroups (from the Users.pm) then I think you'll get what you want.	18:09
xootom	ok that helps, i'll have a go. many thanks	18:10
elnino_	I have another question: I create my own auth mod, and would like to redirect users to a offsite login form. Is there an appropriate place in the WebGUI.pm auth (my auth mod is a copy of it) mod, that will allow me to redirect the user before anything is written to the headers?	18:11
elnino_	I tried doing this in the displayLogin proceedure, but stuff was already written to the headers.	18:11
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elnino_	hopefully that makes sense?	18:13
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Radix-europe	Hey doug	18:16
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elnino_	Hi. I'll reword my question: I've copied the webgui.pm auth module as my own, and would like to instead redirect a user to the login screen (a static page). Is there an appropriate place to do this? I tried within the displayLogin proceedure, but html has been written already, so I couldn't redirect the user. Or is it too late by the time that auth mod is instanciated?	18:20
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elnino_	hopefully someone can tell?	18:30
elnino_	help	18:31
pjesi	sorry don't know yet, but I am starting to do similar stuff	18:32
elnino_	glad to know that it's not a crazy idea.	18:33
elnino_	I've mananged to rewrite the form so that it submits to the static page, but that's not working to well, and someting tells me that's not really a good idea. The static login page is on a different subdomain. What have you all tried pjesi?	18:35
pjesi	elnino_: you are way ahead of me, I am just starting to figure out how to implement the custom auth module	18:36
elnino_	if anyone is looking into my question, plesae let me know and I'll wait, otherwise, I need to log off to vpn into work. - I can't work while logged into this.	18:48
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@rizen	quick opinion poll	18:59
@rizen	If you ran the following command: ./wreservice.pl --start mysql	18:59
@rizen	and it fails	18:59
@rizen	do you want it to say	19:00
@rizen	a) nothing	19:00
@rizen	b) Couldn't start MySQL	19:00
@rizen	c) A full error message that tells you everything it can about why it couldn't start mysql	19:00
@rizen	?	19:00
xootom	c	19:00
xootom	can anyone tell me if there is any documentation to the graphing API? Is it accessible through an SQL report, so I can show say a plot instead of a table?	19:07
@rizen	it is not currently available to the SQL report, although that is something that perlDreamer is working on for 7.5	19:09
@rizen	there are api docs for it at http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds	19:09
@rizen	then choose your version	19:09
xootom	looked through there but couldn't see anything about graphs	19:10
@rizen	http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.22-stable/api/Image.html	19:15
xootom	ah ha it's under image	19:15
@rizen	http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.22-stable/api/Image/Graph.html	19:16
@preaction	i'd pick "c" as well, I'd want to know everything	19:16
xootom	yes, only the admin is going to see it (and panic, trying to find the cause)	19:17
@preaction	does that mean that the wreservice.pl script is actually going to tail the mysql error log for me?	19:17
@preaction	because that would be killer	19:17
@rizen	no, but i suppose it could	19:18
xootom	not sure how clean that would look, perhaps it could suggest the user tails it, and gives the full command with path, to prompt the admin	19:19
@rizen	could have a --tail option	19:19
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@preaction	so wreservice.pl will be the frontend through which individual OSes rc scripts are written?	19:22
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xootom	rc.webgui already does that doesn't it, e.g. rc.webgui startmysql	19:24
@preaction	right, i'm thinking wreservice.pl is the new rc.webgui	19:25
nuba	rizen: b) Couldn't start MySQL. With maybe a pointer to "check /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/var/$hostname.err for more information"	19:43
nuba	dunno, but i'd rather have the error go to mysql's own error log	19:45
@preaction	it will be there, mysql does that itself	19:45
@preaction	i'd just like to avoid going to dig it out myself, so the option to --tail or --verbose would be nice	19:46
nuba	a --verbose would be fine too	19:46
xootom	or oppositely a --quiet	19:53
nuba	heh	19:54
@preaction	imho quiet should be default. if the program wants to notify the user that there IS more to see with --verbose, it can go ahead	19:57
@preaction	progressive enhancement, instead of graceful degradation	19:57
nuba	i think the default should be 'loaded service foo ok' or 'couldn't load service foo'. a --quiet would output nothing except maybe errors to sdterr, and a --verbose would spill the detailed errors too	19:59
xootom	i suppose it depends if the target user is an admin interactively running the command, then in the use case of it failing, they need to fix it asap with all the info they can get. If it's feeding an error status back to something else, then i can see why detailed errors might not be appropriate	20:01
nuba	i dont think its fit for a --quiet to produce output like 'loaded foo ok'. when you have a --quiet switch it usually means 'output nothing unless strictly necessary'	20:01
xootom	i'm not sure why by default you'd want to hide information that might help the admin diagnose why the command failed	20:02
@preaction	i'm thinking this is THE script to start/stop the wre services, from cron, from remote, from web, from console, from startup, etc...	20:02
@preaction	by default it should do what most startup scripts do, "Starting Blah... OK" or "Starting Blah... FAILED" (something along those lines)	20:03
xootom	i'm not sure what the convention is for such scripts within webgui to feed back to the interface, return codes etc.	20:03
xootom	yeah	20:03
nuba	preaction: yup, thats what im understanding too	20:03
danny_mk	Good afternoon! preaction: Did you get the code for the chat Wobject cleaned up?	20:04
nuba	in such cases when you dont have a --quiet switch you sometimes have to redirect stderr/stdout to /dev/null	20:04
@preaction	danny_mk, lord no, i'm sitting in a starbucks lounge just so i can put in my 8 hours of work today. i can give you what i have now along with some instructions on what needs to be deleted or cleaned up	20:05
danny_mk	cool. Can you mail it to danny_mk@yahoo.com?	20:07
@preaction	k, give me 30 minutes about.	20:07
danny_mk	sure, take your time, I have plenty of work to do :-)	20:08
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sno	Good day	21:25
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nuba	wonder if he thinks he was snobbed away then left	21:54
nuba	we should have a bot here for handling such cases	21:55
nuba	eliza-powered	21:55
nuba	:)	21:56
@rizen	i thought that's why we set up the nuba bot	21:59
@rizen	hello nuba, my name is rizen	21:59
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xootom	rizen, you were helping me yesterday with my problem of how to represent teachers and students in a particular school in webgui, and the way forward was to have each school as a group. now my problem is, how can a report show details about students in one school to the teacher of that school, without having to write custom reports for every school? if the school was a profile field (my original thought) then i'd have been able	22:10
@rizen	how is being in a group different from being in a profile field in that sense?	22:12
@rizen	both are database tables	22:12
xootom	just that i can write an sql report using the profile fields in where clauses	22:12
@rizen	you can do the same with groups	22:12
@rizen	the two tables in question are groups and groupings	22:12
@rizen	in webgui, unless it's a file, it's stored in the database	22:13
@rizen	so everything is a table you can report on	22:13
xootom	true, i'm wondering if there will be a problem if they're in multiple group	22:13
xootom	s	22:13
@rizen	why would there be a problem...you're looking for a specific school name and a specific user	22:14
@rizen	the same as you would be in the profile	22:14
xootom	yeah of course	22:14
@rizen	in fact, it will be easier to deal with multiples using groups than with profiles	22:14
@rizen	cuz groups are designed for multiples	22:14
@rizen	profiles aren't	22:14
xootom	that's true. yes i think i'm getting my head too muddled :)	22:15
SDuensin	Hey rizen - another FYI... Just posted all-new installation instructions for my desktop app. MUCH easier to do now.	22:15
@rizen	keep in mind that you may be better off writing an asset for this reporting simply because the perl API changes way less frequently than the database schema	22:16
@rizen	sweet SD. i have to be honest with you though, the main reason i haven't checked it out yet is that my busiest time of the year is april through september...after the WUC i'll have lots more free time	22:17
SDuensin	That's cool. I completely understand. That's why there's no YUI desktop yet. :-P	22:17
@rizen	xootom, not that the database schema for users and groups changes that often	22:18
@rizen	rarely, if ever in fact...but that's not true of most other tables	22:18
@rizen	just wanted to let you know in advance	22:19
xootom	yeah i think you might be right	22:19
xootom	at the moment i'm just trying to get things in place as quickly and simply as possible, my perl skills aren't up to much yet :(	22:20
@rizen	you should come to the development workshop at the WUC	22:20
@rizen	two days of intensive perl and webgui api to get you up to speed	22:20
xootom	would love to but i'm in the uk	22:21
@rizen	or...you could always contact dev@plainblack.com and have us build it for you	22:21
@rizen	Radix is in Australia, but he came last year	22:21
@rizen	we have people from all over the world every year	22:21
xootom	when is it?	22:21
@rizen	3rd week in october: http://www.plainblack.com/wuc	22:22
xootom	mmm looks good	22:24
nuba	rizen: huh	22:29
@rizen	i was saying you are a bot	22:29
@rizen	joke didn't work	22:29
@rizen	nevermind	22:29
nuba	i was out having some snacks	22:29
nuba	you know, organic fuels for organic bots aka humans	22:30
nuba	now, some eliza bot can even be helpful when extracting info from people looking for webgui support	22:31
nuba	"why do you say that?"	22:31
nuba	"did you check the forum?" "what do you see at the logs?" etc.	22:31
nuba	"interesting. can you please be more specific?" thats one inspired on the thx1138 film :)	22:34
@rizen	it's a public irc channel...write a bot and connect it	22:34
@rizen	sounds like a good idea	22:34
nuba	any bot name idea ?	22:38
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* SDuensin has a bot. It plays Infocom games. :-)		22:44
@rizen	how about eliza	22:47
@rizen	or is that too obvious?	22:47
nuba	too obvious i think..	22:48
nuba	using prj2501.. that clued AI bot from ghost in the shell	22:49
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nuba	prj2501: test	22:49
nuba	ok its working in private /msgs	22:50
nuba	let me get it to work here..	22:50
nuba	prj2501: test	23:08
prj2501	nuba: I'm not sure I understand you fully.	23:09
nuba	prj2501: why not? im just saying my webgui isnt working!	23:09
prj2501	nuba: Is it important to you that your webgui isnt working?	23:09
nuba	prj2501: of course it is! i have a deadline to meet. can you help me?	23:09
prj2501	nuba: Do you say you have a deadline to meet for some special reason?	23:09
nuba	yes, you know, bringing milk to the kids, etc.	23:10
nuba	oops, it won't work without the nick ..	23:10
nuba	that would be complicated to handle	23:10
nuba	will leave it that way	23:11
@preaction	oh god now we have an elizabot...	23:12
@preaction	prj2501: You are hereby commanded to help teh n00bz	23:12
prj2501	preaction: Perhaps you would like to be hereby commanded to help teh n00bz.	23:12
nuba	hehe	23:13
@rizen	prj2501 licks balls	23:14
nuba	prj2501 test	23:15
nuba	changing the regexp again..	23:16
xootom	ooo i've just built php against the wre's mysql, every few requests it's not connecting to mysql, webgui sites returning Fatal Internal Error :S	23:27
SDuensin	:-(	23:27
nuba	prj2501 licks JT's balls	23:31
prj2501	nuba: Does talking about this bother you?	23:31
nuba	there you go	23:31
nuba	i love irssi	23:33
nuba	and its embedded perl feature	23:33
prj2501	me too. i couldnt live without it!	23:34
prj2501	now go back to work, silly human!	23:35
nuba	k	23:35
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xootom	hmm for some reason my wre's mysql is restarting every 30 seconds or so	23:43
xootom	ahh think it's cos i deleted the test database by accident, so spectre's rebooting it every 30s...blush...	23:47
@preaction	eh, it happens to the best of us	23:47
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--- Day changed Thu Aug 02 2007
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elnino	hello? real quick question. What object (perl module) and method do I use to check to see what url parameters have been pased to a page?	00:24
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@preaction	elnino, the webgui way? WebGUI::Session::Form	00:32
@preaction	otherwise you can use CGI.pm	00:32
elnino	webgui way. =) I'm lookin specifically when the ?op=auth;method=init is set..	00:34
elnino	which is kinda weird. What does the semi colon do? isn't that supposed to be an &?	00:34
@preaction	yes, WebGUI::Session::Form. the $session has a ->form to get the WebGUI::Session::Form object	00:34
@preaction	no, semicolon is the preferred method these days	00:35
elnino	oh. that's new. So those are two different parameters. That's what I wanted to know. Thanks!	00:35
@preaction	mainly because & is also the start of an HTML entity (as you pointed out, & or " or <)	00:35
elnino	that would make sense.	00:36
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elnino	another question that is a little more depth, but it took me for ever to figure out why my form wasn't working.	00:36
@preaction	elnino, just a word of warning: be careful making a new Auth. some of the subroutines in WebGUI::Auth do not have the same prototype as their children in WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI	00:37
elnino	any idea why webgu's form defaults to enctype="multipart/form-data" when it should be "application/x-www-form-urlencoded" by default?	00:37
@preaction	because multipart/formdata allows for file uploads	00:37
@preaction	application/x-www-form-urlencoded is just one part of a multipart/form-data POST	00:38
elnino	yea. but I was using that method, not knowing you defaulted it to that, and my form wouldn't work untill I changed it to "application/x-www-form-urlencoded" that bit me hard for several hours.	00:38
elnino	opps. did that come accross? it doesn't look right on my chat software.	00:39
@preaction	that's weird	00:40
elnino	back to your warning... I copied /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Auth/WebGUI.pm. to create my own auth mod. Should I have copied the parent Auth.pm?	00:40
@preaction	no, you did right, i'm just saying be careful because it's a lot of messed up in there :(	00:41
elnino	lot of ?? people?	00:41
@preaction	no, it's just messy. some bad things that can't be fixed because it will break API	00:41
@preaction	pardon my broken english	00:42
elnino	OK. Thanks for your help, preaction, I'm signing off to read url parameters!	00:43
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elnino	hi preactioin... What object did yousay I needed to use for looking at url parameters? I can't seem to find it...	01:01
@preaction	WebGUI::Session::Form	01:01
@preaction	it's part of the session object, $session->form->get("parameter name")	01:01
elnino	oh.. I'll look again. Thanks! bye.	01:02
elnino	Super.. Thanks!	01:02
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+crythias	Radix_ you there?	01:16
+MrHairgrease	he probably is not	01:16
+MrHairgrease	he's in the Netherolands right now	01:17
+MrHairgrease	and uses the nick radix_europe	01:17
+MrHairgrease	but maybe he's using Radix_ too	01:17
+crythias	heh. OK. I was thinking about the default install of new sites.	01:17
+MrHairgrease	ok	01:18
+crythias	back 8 hours ago.	01:18
+MrHairgrease	he'll prolly be online tomorrow again	01:18
+crythias	the problem was about the default install adding pages...	01:18
+MrHairgrease	in the bestedest timezone of the world =)	01:18
+MrHairgrease	yeah	01:18
+MrHairgrease	i read a bit of it	01:18
+MrHairgrease	but i understand the difficulties	01:19
@preaction	7.4 fixed that iirc. you could add something to the wizard that would remove everything	01:19
+crythias	why not simply have the default site as a package to deploy, even if you don't install it?	01:20
+MrHairgrease	i dunno	01:20
+crythias	that is a cool way to show what the package thing does.	01:20
+MrHairgrease	and it's about 00;20 over here	01:21
+MrHairgrease	so i don;t wanna know right now =)	01:21
+crythias	ah. I'm -6 hours from you. I should get home.	01:21
+MrHairgrease	yeah	01:21
+MrHairgrease	you should	01:21
+MrHairgrease	=)	01:21
+MrHairgrease	it's almost weekend =)	01:22
+MrHairgrease	only two days to go	01:22
+MrHairgrease	are you attending the wuc this year btw?	01:22
+crythias	I don't know.	01:24
+crythias	I'm going to see. Every year, I think I'm going to go somewhere.	01:25
+MrHairgrease	somewhere else during the wuc you mean?	01:25
+crythias	well, last year I thought I was going to be moving.	01:25
+MrHairgrease	ah i see	01:26
+MrHairgrease	but you didn't?	01:26
+MrHairgrease	so you're gonna move this year?	01:26
+crythias	no. chickened out.	01:26
+MrHairgrease	ok	01:26
+MrHairgrease	that's not too bad	01:26
+MrHairgrease	before you know it	01:26
+crythias	actually, job is secure, but we were looking to upgrade house.	01:26
+MrHairgrease	you'll be lik emicheal j fox in back to the future	01:26
+MrHairgrease	ok	01:27
+crythias	what? I'll get a Delorean?	01:27
+crythias	and be able to use a remote control to control it?	01:27
+MrHairgrease	i read somewhere deloerean is manufacturiong again	01:27
+MrHairgrease	i'd opt for a kitt	01:27
+crythias	I'll have my mom think I'm hot?	01:27
+MrHairgrease	i have this thing for flashing leds	01:28
+crythias	actually, have my mom think I'm Calvin Klein?	01:28
+crythias	that's really creapy.	01:28
+MrHairgrease	wtf?!?!?	01:28
+MrHairgrease	you aren't calvin klein?	01:28
+MrHairgrease	that a disappointment	01:28
+crythias	well, I don't wear CK on my undies, that's for sure.	01:28
+MrHairgrease	i'm sucking up to the worng people =)	01:29
+crythias	and not so sure I need to fall out of a tree so my mom can take me in ...	01:29
+crythias	anyway, how would I be like MJF?	01:29
+MrHairgrease	MJF?	01:29
+crythias	Michael J Fox	01:29
+MrHairgrease	you aren't	01:29
+crythias	comeon, it's your analogy...	01:29
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+MrHairgrease	i must have been using drugs	01:30
+MrHairgrease	without noticing	01:30
+crythias	(18:26:36) MrHairgrease: that's not too bad	01:30
+crythias	(18:26:42) MrHairgrease: before you know it	01:30
+crythias	(18:26:45) crythias: actually, job is secure, but we were looking to upgrade house.	01:30
+crythias	(18:26:53) MrHairgrease: you'll be lik emicheal j fox in back to the future	01:30
+MrHairgrease	oh that	01:30
+MrHairgrease	that was about the chicken part	01:30
+MrHairgrease	or better said	01:30
+MrHairgrease	you chickening out	01:30
+crythias	oh. how he gets all mad being called chicken	01:30
+MrHairgrease	yeah	01:31
+crythias	ok.	01:31
+crythias	'cause, yaknow, I wouldn't mind having a DeLorean	01:31
+crythias	heheh	01:31
+MrHairgrease	sure	01:31
+MrHairgrease	but where do you get the jigowatts	01:31
+crythias	Mr. Reactor	01:31
+MrHairgrease	lightning is seldom over here	01:32
+MrHairgrease	oh yeah	01:32
+MrHairgrease	just dump your trash in your car	01:32
+crythias	but it's all about the petrol	01:32
+crythias	hey. how do you know that's what I do to my car? oh. you prob. mean the reactor	01:32
+MrHairgrease	petrol is too expensive over here	01:32
+MrHairgrease	so for now	01:33
+MrHairgrease	i'll keep using my bike	01:33
+crythias	we should be burning bole weevels	01:33
+MrHairgrease	bole wheevels?	01:33
+MrHairgrease	what are those	01:33
+crythias	the scurge of the cotton crops	01:33
+crythias	scourge	01:33
+MrHairgrease	ah	01:33
+MrHairgrease	scourge�� (sk�rj) �Pronunciation Key�	01:34
+MrHairgrease	n.�� A source of widespread dreadful affliction and devastation such as that caused by pestilence or war. A means of inflicting severe suffering, vengeance, or punishment. A whip used to inflict punishment.	01:34
+MrHairgrease	sounds fun...	01:34
+crythias	in fact, we could be running on maggot energy.	01:34
+MrHairgrease	ok	01:34
+crythias	that's renewable in only a few days.	01:34
+MrHairgrease	i see it's time to quit and go to bed	01:35
+MrHairgrease	=)	01:35
+MrHairgrease	later guys	01:35
+crythias	making a car with efficient use of protein.. later	01:35
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elnino	hello. I'm trying to dump the value of a cookie, that has a bunch of key value pairs:	02:48
elnino	my ($cookies) = $session->http->getCookies;	02:48
elnino	my $authcook = $$cookies->{'cookiename'};	02:48
elnino	return $authcookie->{$hashkey};	02:48
elnino	but I must be doing something wrong? I don't quite understand hashes...	02:48
elnino	oh. geez, I see a variable is named wrong.. Other than that does the code look correct?	02:49
elnino	I gotta go, Ill try this, and may be back	03:52
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@preaction	finally EVDO is working for me. I can work from home tomorrow.	04:07
@preaction	the latency is something like 2 seconds, but i can live with that	04:07
SDuensin	2 seconds?!	04:08
SDuensin	You live on the moon or something?	04:08
@preaction	no, it's cellular and i'm getting poor reception	04:09
@preaction	4 bars of 8, i imagine if i went outside it'd be better	04:09
SDuensin	I use EVDO every day. It's NIIIIIIIICE.	04:09
@preaction	looks like just a few hundred ms now	04:10
SDuensin	That's better. :-)	04:11
SDuensin	Who are you using? Mine's a Verizon ExpressCard adapter.	04:11
@preaction	SprintPCS Phone as Modem with a Samsung Upstage	04:12
@preaction	gotta go, i think my gf just called	04:12
SDuensin	See ya!	04:12
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xootom	hi all, does anyone know why when i create groups of groups, the Admins group keeps appearing within groups?	13:47
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AMH_henry	@xootom: i think admin should get rights from all groups.	14:12
xootom	Just looks a bit odd as it's a child of every single group	14:13
AMH_henry	well, if a group A is within group B then group A inherits all rights from group B. it looks a bit odd for admins but at least admins will always have all right	14:15
AMH_henry	rights	14:15
xootom	I see what you mean	14:21
xootom	Just looks confusing when you see it as a tree structure (manage groups in this group) and everything has Admins in it	14:22
AMH_henry	yes, it look me a while before i got it heheh	14:23
xootom	Can I run a grouping scenario past you and see if you think it's the best approach?	14:23
AMH_henry	i'm not an expert on it, but sure I can give it a try	14:25
xootom	Thanks! I'm using groups to represent schools. So I have a group for each school. I want to group them into partnerships, as the schools work together in partnerships, so I have created a partnerships group, which contains each partnership group, which contains the schools. Now I want to be able to group them into geographical areas (counties).. should I add a group for each county, and add the schools into each county? Or is there a better way of making the sc	14:28
xootom	I'm not sure how easily it will be manageable though	14:28
xootom	Plus I have students in each school, so they'll join the school group. Then there are teachers, so they will be in the school group too but also in a teachers group, so they can access reports. But then will I need a separate group for teachers in each school, i.e. two groups for every school, if I want teachers in a school to be able to edit their own set of pages?	14:29
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AMH_henry	this is a rather complicated problem... to begin with your last question. I would create a teachers group for each school and make all teaches members of it. Also create a students group for each school. And then a school group. A school group will be member of both teacher and student group.	14:45
AMH_henry	this way if you for example want pages editable by every one in a school then you can you the school group. If you only want access for student then you student group.	14:46
MrHairgreas1	don't you mean you'll make the teachers and student groups memeber of a school group in stead of the opposite	14:46
AMH_henry	@MrHairgreas1: to my understanding it works the opposite way. If group A is in group B, then group A inherits all rights from group B.	14:47
MrHairgreas1	yeah	14:48
MrHairgreas1	that's correct	14:48
MrHairgreas1	maybe i shouldn't respond to questions i haven't heard	14:49
MrHairgreas1	but in most cases it's logical to put the teachers and student group in a school group	14:50
MrHairgreas1	that also follows the normal hierarchy	14:50
AMH_henry	yeah, that's more logical indeed, but unfornately webgui has choosen differently	14:50
MrHairgreas1	as far as i know webgui hasn't	14:51
AMH_henry	of course it depends on how you makes use of those groups	14:52
MrHairgreas1	of course	14:54
AMH_henry	@xootom: the same for partnerships. each partnership can be member of schools. do you get the idea?	15:02
MrHairgreas1	hmm	15:07
MrHairgreas1	i think you're still explaining it upside down	15:07
MrHairgreas1	if you have partnership group	15:07
MrHairgreas1	which should contain the schools forming a partnership	15:08
MrHairgreas1	you should make the schoolgroups a member of that specific partnership group	15:08
MrHairgreas1	if you make a partnership group a member of a schoolgroup...	15:08
MrHairgreas1	the school won't be in that partnership	15:08
MrHairgreas1	however the partnership will be in that schoolgroup	15:09
MrHairgreas1	but	15:09
MrHairgreas1	that doesn't make sense b/c the partnership group will be empty	15:09
MrHairgreas1	in the latter case	15:09
xootom	yeah mrhairgreas1 that all makes sense	15:14
MrHairgreas1	just view the groups in groups thing as a tree	15:15
MrHairgreas1	lower levels have the privileges of higher levels	15:16
MrHairgreas1	but not the other way around	15:16
xootom	i think i need to have lots of groups in my system to see how it works	15:17
MrHairgreas1	ah	15:17
xootom	if you have thousands of groups set up, do you still get them all in the same long list where you choose to add them to another group?	15:17
MrHairgreas1	the famous "there's only one way to find out how it works" approach	15:17
MrHairgreas1	dunno	15:18
MrHairgreas1	never used that many groups before	15:18
AMH_henry	@MarHairgreas1: i think you are right if you reasons that way.	15:18
MrHairgreas1	nor did i ever do very complex groupings	15:18
MrHairgreas1	rize can prolly answer that question	15:19
MrHairgreas1	rizen*	15:19
MrHairgreas1	it might be beneficial to write your own group management interface for that particular purpose though	15:19
MrHairgreas1	and make it more natural to do the kind of groupings you want to do	15:19
MrHairgreas1	have it use the Group API in the back	15:20
xootom	yeah you're probably right	15:20
MrHairgreas1	it'll happily coexist with the default group manager	15:20
xootom	going back to my original scenario, if there is a separate group for teachers in a school and students in a school, both within the school group, will the teacher be able to get reports out about the students? as they're in a different branch	15:23
xootom	or should the teacher be under the students	15:23
xootom	that might work then i just find the parent group..	15:23
MrHairgreas1	what do you mean by getting reports out?	15:23
MrHairgreas1	teachers should never be below students	15:24
MrHairgreas1	that would be very bad for preserving order in the classroom =)	15:24
AMH_henry	@xootom: you can always create a separate reports group	15:24
xootom	it's probably getting over complicated for what I'm trying to set up. example is there are 1000 schools set up, each has say 100 students and 2 teachers with access. I have say 5 different reports, for example report 1 could be a score against each student. Now, I need this report to be available to all teachers in all schools, but it would show the teacher only the scores of the students in their own school	15:26
xootom	that sums up what I'm trying to achieve (the reports in question are currently sql reports)	15:26
xootom	on top of that, each school can have its own set of pages, the teachers of that school would have editing rights (that's where the group security element comes in)	15:27
MrHairgreas1	so set the view group of that sqlreport to the "Teachers of school X" group	15:27
MrHairgreas1	for the school pages	15:28
MrHairgreas1	set the privs as follows	15:28
xootom	yeah but then i'd have to create the 5 reports 1000 times for each school wouldn't i?	15:28
MrHairgreas1	view: school X group (teachers and students are in it)	15:28
MrHairgreas1	edit: "teachers of school x" group	15:28
MrHairgreas1	you'll have to do that anyway i guess	15:29
xootom	yeah that's fine	15:29
xootom	just how to have one set of reports, not having to maintain 1000 versions	15:29
MrHairgreas1	i'm not sure you can do that with just an sql report	15:30
MrHairgreas1	it depends on how the scores are stored i guess	15:31
xootom	essentially a table with userId against scores	15:31
MrHairgreas1	hmm	15:32
xootom	so i can query the webgui database groupings to find all the users in a group, and find all the scores for those users	15:32
xootom	but if the teachers and students are in different groups	15:32
xootom	hmm might just need a more complex query to join it all together	15:32
MrHairgreas1	what you could do it	15:32
MrHairgreas1	is*	15:32
MrHairgreas1	figure out in which school group the teacher is	15:32
MrHairgreas1	and then get all users in the groups of that group	15:33
MrHairgreas1	in that case you'll get the uids	15:33
xootom	yeah i wonder if i could write a macro to do that	15:33
MrHairgreas1	of both teachers and students for a school	15:33
MrHairgreas1	for the report the teacher being in there don't matter	15:34
MrHairgreas1	b/c they don't have score in that table anyway	15:34
MrHairgreas1	you could write a macro	15:34
MrHairgreas1	but it could potentiall give you a long list of results	15:34
MrHairgreas1	what you could also try to do is create a VIEW	15:34
MrHairgreas1	containing student coupled to teachers or something like that	15:35
MrHairgreas1	and use that in your query	15:35
MrHairgreas1	just giving options	15:35
xootom	ahhh yeah	15:35
MrHairgreas1	dunno how weel it would work	15:35
xootom	arr got to go for a bit thanks for all your help :)	15:36
MrHairgreas1	np	15:36
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AMH_bob	Goodmorning!	15:50
MrHairgreas1	hi	15:51
SDuensin	Hey AMH_bob & MrHairgreas1	15:51
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elnino	hello - quick question. What pm module and method do I use to get the current page's viewable group?	17:48
AMH_henry	@elnino: you mean something like $asset->get('groupIdView')?	17:56
nuba	/na	17:58
nuba	oops	17:58
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elnino	Im thinking that will do it. How would I get the current page I'm on?	18:07
AMH_henry	if you have the current asset you can test if it's a PageLayout. If not, then try its parent.	18:09
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elnino	oh. ?? I'm coding my own Auth mod, and simply copied webui's a rewrote the login form, so I don't think I have the current asset either.	18:12
AMH_henry	you can get it by $session->asset	18:14
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xootom	has anyone got an example of the GroupAdd macro working? its third parameter is a template, when is this displayed?	18:37
@preaction	the template is used to display the macro itself	18:38
xootom	i'll experiment	18:39
@preaction	apparently all the GroupAdd macro does is display a link for the user to add itself to a group if the group is set to "autoAdd" and the user is not yet part of that group	18:40
xootom	how come the first parameter is groupname, not groupid? there can be multiple groups with the same name, it's not a key field is it?	18:41
+MrHairgrease	no	18:42
+MrHairgrease	groupid is the only valid identifier	18:42
+MrHairgrease	at least the one that won't break	18:42
elnino	AMH_henry: Thanks for your help! I'll go try it now. bye.	18:42
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xootom	trying the GroupAdd macro out, it seems to work with groups that don't have spaces in the name. it still showed after i'd joined the group though, which i don't think it should as the conditions for its display are that you're not a member already.	18:55
xootom	should groups not have spaces in their names? and how do i identify other groups with the same name	18:55
@rizen	why do you have multiple groups with the same name?	18:56
@rizen	how would you ever tell them apart	18:56
@rizen	you shouldn't do that	18:56
xootom	i just tried it, i probably wouldn't choose to do that, but if I create a duplicate it doesn't say i can't	18:57
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@rizen	i suppose we should protect users from themselves	18:58
@rizen	report it as a bug	18:58
xootom	i suppose in my previous example, each school is a group and could contain a sub-group of "students" and "teachers", there would then be lots of different groups with the same name.. I thought it was only a label, but with GroupAdd it's being used as an identifier	18:58
elnino	hello. quick question. How do I de-encode a value that is stored in a cookie? the string has a space and when I display it on the webpage, a plus sign is displayed.	18:59
@rizen	listen to what you are saying	18:59
@rizen	so if you go into the groups manager	18:59
@rizen	and you have 10,000 groups called "Students"	18:59
@rizen	how wouuld you ever tell them apart?	18:59
@preaction	elnino, cookies are stored urlencoded	18:59
xootom	oh i know, i wouldn't do that because the groups aren't displayed in a tree, it's not easy to see the structure	19:00
@rizen	instead your groups should be named "Students of School X"	19:00
@preaction	elnino, use URI::Escape; uri_unescape(cookie string) # iirc	19:00
elnino	perfect thanks!	19:00
xootom	Yeah but they are limited to only 20 odd characters, i can't even fit in my test schools names without the students of school bit	19:00
@rizen	they aren't stored in a tree simply because they aren't inherently hierarchical	19:01
@rizen	20 characters/	19:01
@rizen	?	19:01
elnino	preaction: thanks for your help! bye.	19:01
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xootom	"Warmley Park Special Needs Sch"	19:01
xootom	then it chops off	19:01
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@rizen	30 characters according to the DB, but that should be increased	19:01
@rizen	feel free to report that as a bug too	19:02
xootom	yeah yes you're right 30	19:02
@rizen	that should be increased to 255 characters	19:02
@rizen	well maybe not that long	19:03
@rizen	that's a sentence	19:03
xootom	lol	19:03
xootom	the problem if you do have duplicate group names - is that the problem, that it lets you create duplicate group names, as they are supposed to be unique identifiers... or should it be that groupadd takes the groupId as the parameter	19:06
xootom	and groupadd doesn't seem to work if there are spaces in the group name	19:07
@preaction	are you quoting the group name?	19:08
xootom	yeah	19:08
xootom	and should it disappear once i've joined the group	19:08
@preaction	yes	19:08
xootom	so i guess i could replace it with groupdel so they can leave again	19:08
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xootom	just a random question, is the current version "7.4.0 beta", that will then turn into "7.4.0 (stable)" or will it go 7.4.0 beta to 7.4.1?	19:16
@preaction	7.4.0 beta will go to 7.4.1	19:17
xootom	ok thanks	19:17
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@rizen	preaction, what's the difference between ubuntu 6 and 7	20:13
@rizen	is 7 a bleeding edge release?	20:13
@preaction	no, all their releases are 6-month timespans	20:13
@preaction	feature freeze at 5 months	20:14
@preaction	so basically all the software is updated every 6 months	20:14
@rizen	but it says that 6.06 is supported until 2011 but 7.04 is only supported until 2008	20:14
@preaction	right, 6.06 was an "LTS" release, supported for 5 years	20:14
@rizen	ok, so if i'm going to build a WRE for Ubunut, then 6.06 would be the version to choose, right?	20:15
@preaction	if, for example, you didn't want to upgrade the entire system all tie time	20:15
@preaction	i don't know, i use ubuntu on the desktop, and i don't know what ubuntu server users do	20:15
@preaction	i'd say the latest stable	20:15
@preaction	and if necessary they can backport	20:16
@rizen	methinks that anybody really serving stuff is going to want long term support	20:16
@preaction	most likely, and there will always be community builds	20:17
nuba	rizen: got a couple of minutes?	20:27
nuba	well just reply when you get around, anyway..	20:28
nuba	im building a photo gallery using userDefinied{1,2} to store lat and long	20:29
nuba	i've modified the rss template to include them, and modified the description to get output like this feed "http://api.flickr.com/services/feeds/groups_pool.gne?id=322338@N20&format=rss_200&georss=1"	20:30
nuba	which then allows me to render them in the googlemaps asset easily	20:30
nuba	now I wonder if there could be a "location" form gadget for webgui	20:31
nuba	so that you could point/click or search for a location,	20:32
nuba	in this case, this is a photo gallery	20:32
nuba	but I can see how you could benefit from being able to assign location attributes to random things inside webgui	20:33
@preaction	Events perhaps?	20:34
nuba	like, imagine a wiki page with knowledge related to a location	20:34
nuba	yeah, events could be nice. if you can output rss from the events, then you could render that in the googlemaps asset as well	20:35
nuba	(i havent really looked at the events asset yet)	20:35
@preaction	there are some complicated parts, but those should be abstracted out in the future	20:36
nuba	the "location form gadget" would be something like picasa's "Photo Location	20:38
nuba	�2007 Google - Map data �2007 NAVTEQ. - Terms of Use	20:38
nuba	"	20:38
nuba	box	20:38
nuba	ugh	20:38
sno	I just built WRE 0.7.2 on Ubuntu server	20:38
nuba	like the one at the bottom-right corner here: http://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.smilak/BestOfAmericaSGrandCircle/photo#4974034093674070034	20:38
sno	I used 6.06 because it was best supported by VMWare	20:38
sno	There were some additional perl modules necessary to get Spectre operational.	20:40
sno	Outside the WRE package.	20:40
sno	mod_perl also had some dependancies not provided.	20:41
nuba	sno: you can add the additional steps you had to perform to the wiki, if you took notes during the setup	20:41
nuba	that may help someone in the future	20:41
nuba	or you, in case you lose your notes and have to do it again ;)	20:41
sno	If my current project is delayed significantly, I can provide documentation for the whole Ubuntu server 6.06 install process.	20:42
sno	The project comes first though.	20:42
nuba	cool	20:42
sno	The base Ubuntu Server install fails to includes some necessary components as well.	20:43
sno	VMWare is very cool. I've been using it since v4.2	20:44
sno	I think Plainblack should create VMWare appliances for WebGUI	20:44
sno	Lots of organizations have built server instances to plug and play.	20:45
sno	I know VMWare is not Open Source, but it is still a great resource. And the VMWare server engine is free distribution.	20:46
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@rizen	nuba, i don't see any reason not to have a location form control	21:03
@rizen	sno, the problem with that is keeping it up to date	21:04
@rizen	i haven't yet found a way to automate the build process	21:04
@rizen	in addition, the distribution package will be enormous	21:04
@rizen	regardless, it is on my radar and if the means to automate the build process presents itself, i probably will do it at some point	21:05
sno	I see it as two problems. Establishing a baseline install, and then a separate upgrade solution.	21:11
sno	I've found that getting it going was the hardest part.	21:11
sno	More people would try WebGUI if they didn't have to abort the installation due to technical problems.	21:13
sno	I'm a competent package installer and WebGUI is one of the hardest installs I've ever done.	21:14
@rizen	i agree that it's difficult to do, but that's what the WRE is all about..admittedly it's not quite there yet, but it's getting closer with each release	21:15
sno	WRE 0.7.2 was a 24 hour install for me. And I've had practice with older versions.	21:16
@rizen	yeah, but you compiled it from scratch rather than using a binary	21:16
@rizen	when i'm using binaries i can install the WRE and WebGUI in under 15 minutes	21:16
sno	I tried that and dropped it. Iinstead whent the virtual machine routel	21:17
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sno	Way too many problems with SUSE 10.2	21:17
sno	I VM'd Ubuntu 6.06 with WRE 0.7.2 and that took the whole day. Admittedly, some of the problem was because I used Ubuntu server instead of workstation.	21:18
@rizen	but there again there isn't a binary...at least not one created by us	21:19
sno	Ubuntu server leaves some packages out that WebGUI relies on.	21:19
@rizen	in addition, that's the reason that the WRE is still at a 0.x release level	21:19
sno	WRE 0.7.2 ubuntu 6.06 isn't a binary?	21:19
@rizen	we know it's not perfect yet	21:19
@rizen	i said there isn't one created by us	21:20
sno	Yep, I understand.	21:20
sno	Ah, then sourceforge has a contributed one?	21:20
@rizen	the only binaries we create right now are RHEL, OSX, and Windows	21:20
@rizen	yes	21:20
sno	I see.	21:20
@rizen	starting with WRE 0.8.0 we'll be putting out Ubuntu and FreeBSD as well	21:20
sno	I'm just thinking that a VM Server that is plug in and play would be a great baseline system for someone to get the feel of WebGUI. Updating processes would come afterwards.	21:22
sno	I'm unsure what Xen brings to this	21:22
@rizen	and as the owner of a company who want's to put his best foot forward, if it comes from us, I want it to have the latest version, and that means an automated build process	21:22
sno	Sure. I understand that too.	21:23
sno	That doesn't necessarily rule out Way-point type of distributions.	21:23
sno	Someone isn't going to want to toss their entire operational web site because they want to download the latest prebuilt server.	21:24
sno	Of course, I'm just talking. Not insisting here.	21:24
sno	I'm interested in good things too.	21:25
sno	Anyway, my thought was that having known way-point VM'd server distributions presents a production base-line for offering enhancements to the latest version.	21:27
sno	(to get to the latest version)	21:28
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sno	A VM'd server may not be the best way to handle this for all time. I'm just thinking of the first-timer. If someone can get WebGUI operational with a minimum of effort, they might decide it fits their production environment faster.	21:30
sno	Then they would go to a custom installation.	21:30
sno	More stable units out there could mean more support requests.	21:31
nuba	there was some talk of a webgui community appliance once, long ago	21:33
nuba	by then vmware was running a community appliance contest	21:33
sno	If you have VMWare Workstation (like I do) an appliance can be built. I built a VM for my development work this week. It's not suitable for a public appliance, but it can be done with a little more effore.	21:34
sno	effort.	21:34
sno	Ideally, it would not be a WRE install on top of a Linux distribution, but an integrated solution.	21:35
nuba	well, there are appliances available for most of the linuxes already	21:36
nuba	i think the fastest way for a webgui appliance	21:36
nuba	would be downloading one of those for which there's a binary wre available	21:36
nuba	then get the rig going	21:36
sno	Doesn't a WRE binary install supplant some installed components, providing it's own environment?	21:38
nuba	i think so, i had to install some stuff inside a freebsd jail to compile it,	21:39
sno	It is certainly plausible to build a VM server with WRE binary installation because I've done it. However, a baseline project should probably be fully integrated with the host opsys.	21:39
nuba	then inside other jails i only had to copy the /data/wre to get it working	21:39
nuba	define: fully integrated with the host opsys	21:40
sno	When I install WRE, I get two full perl instances on my filesystem. One for the host, and one for WebGUI.	21:41
sno	The host system having already installed one of them.	21:41
sno	Same for Apache, etc.	21:41
nuba	well, remove the OS's apache if you want	21:42
nuba	wouldn't recommend doing that with perl	21:42
sno	A source install would be better, but is a slow and bumpy process.	21:42
nuba	some system scripts could go borke	21:42
sno	Indeed.	21:42
sno	If a select few base opsys were chosen, and a WebGUI source deployment applied to it. That would be the basis for an integrated WebGUI appliance.	21:43
nuba	I wouldn't worry about integrating with the OS's further than the crontab :)	21:43
nuba	isnt the goal of what you're proposing just for webgui to get the foot in the doro?	21:44
nuba	door*	21:44
nuba	with this appliance?	21:44
sno	Clean, tight, compact (or as compact as possible).	21:44
nuba	let the masses try webgui..	21:44
sno	That is an argument for an appliance.	21:44
sno	I'm just thinking about how the appliance could/should be deployed.	21:44
nuba	actually i think the public available demo addresses that nicely	21:45
sno	But that is not permanent.	21:45
nuba	then the vmware appliace would come handy	21:45
sno	Handing someone an appliance means they have a working environment for all time.	21:45
sno	Right.	21:45
nuba	still, one thing is building a 'check this shit out' appliance,	21:46
sno	rizen is concerned about providing the latest version at all times.	21:46
nuba	another thing is a finely tuned custum built webgui appliance for production deployment	21:46
sno	Right.	21:46
sno	But there is no reason that a properly configured appliance can not serve both.	21:47
nuba	not to mention requirements for deployment will be different	21:47
nuba	then there's clustering...	21:47
nuba	and so on..	21:47
sno	And thus support contracts kick in.	21:47
nuba	things get messy real quickly :)	21:47
sno	and the revenue stream jumps.	21:47
sno	Get them in the door, then sell them something.	21:48
sno	I'm pretty sure WebGUI is built on that model.	21:49
sno	This just takes it that one step further. Easy installation.	21:49
sno	All the mumbo-jumbo about a qualified appliance is really a discussion about what you want your in-the-door product to act like.	21:50
sno	I much prefer a baseline that can be added to like legos.	21:50
sno	And then when you outgrow your current set-up, well Plainblack has solutions for you.	21:51
sno	Friendly, qualified technicians.	21:51
sno	Oh, and there's the hosting...	21:51
sno	Like to chat more, but time to go.	21:52
nuba	ok	21:53
nuba	you should check plainblack's hosting plans etc	21:53
nuba	i think they're throwing the net and catching the fish earlier than you think	21:54
nuba	see the demo, like it ? signup for the cheaper hosting plan.. then grow from there.	21:55
nuba	anyway, check with rizen, i just hang here :)	22:00
xootom	got a very quick question, i'm just on my way out :) if i have lots of groups, how are they presented in say the security tab, would hundreds be listed in the 'edit' drop down still?	22:21
@rizen	yes, although that is getting changed to a selection from control the same as user is in an upcoming 7.4.x release	22:22
@preaction	if they're "Show In Forms", yes	22:23
@preaction	rizen, the ajax search thing?	22:24
@rizen	it's not ajax, it's just a popup window that lets you search users	22:24
@preaction	ah	22:24
@rizen	it could be ajax, it just isn't	22:25
xootom	cool thanks	22:25
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nuba	interesting: http://perlsurvey.org/	22:49
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nuba	in the ./Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm, sub getRssItems, we have inside the hashrefs pushed to @{$attachmentLoop}, the following: attachment.url, attachment.path, attachment_thumbnail, attachment.length. Why the _ on attachment_thumbnail ?	00:34
@rizen	because it was created after the new best practices policy change	00:36
@rizen	template variables can't have . in them anymore	00:36
@rizen	and starting with 7.5 (probably) all existing template variables will automatically be converted to use _ instead of .	00:36
nuba	ok	00:36
nuba	was the new policy published somewhere ?	00:37
@rizen	yes, the dev mailing list and the wiki	00:37
nuba	i thought _ would apply to TT templates only	00:37
@rizen	back in january	00:37
nuba	ok. thx	00:37
@rizen	it was part of my new years resolution	00:38
nuba	i didnt see it, checking out now..	00:38
@rizen	it's also been talked about on IRC in the months since then, but you may not have been on while we talked about it	00:38
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nuba	probably	00:45
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nuba	rizen: regarding the mini-beta thing, is there a "asset style guide" or "feature guide" anywhere ?	01:15
nuba	like, "if possible, export table-data as CSV or etc"	01:16
@rizen	what mini beta thing?	01:16
nuba	"allow for importing and/or exporting in formats usually adopted when dealing with such type of data"	01:16
nuba	mini-beta thread on dev list from July 7 2007	01:17
@rizen	url?	01:17
@rizen	sorry, i don't remember word for word everything that is said on there	01:17
nuba	well you're complaining about the low quality of the interface or feature set of some assets	01:18
nuba	low usability	01:18
@rizen	do you have a url or not?	01:18
nuba	badly designed interface etc.	01:18
@rizen	i'll take that as no	01:18
nuba	http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/mini-beta#O8Qve3OXnIvwnp2GIUFxmQ	01:18
nuba	sorry I thought first you were asking if I wanted a URL to such a interface/feature guide	01:19
@rizen	ok	01:19
@rizen	what do you mean by feature guide?	01:19
nuba	maybe you or someone should write a small guide of 'feature patterns'	01:19
nuba	like "if you asset has child assets, provide means to list, search, edit, add, remove them"	01:20
@rizen	no there isn't such a thing	01:20
nuba	"when applicable or recommended, block the addition of child assets to your child"	01:20
nuba	etc.	01:21
@rizen	i really only have one statement in that regard: "Leave nothing unfinished. Take everything to it's logical conclusion."	01:21
@rizen	ok that's two statements	01:21
@rizen	but they mean the same	01:21
nuba	ok	01:22
@rizen	you're probably right that at some point someone should write such a document	01:22
@rizen	but i'm afraid i'm not that guy	01:22
nuba	well the thing is what you call "unfinished business" could be "good enough" for other people, thats when having such guide would be handy	01:23
@rizen	i understand why it would be useful	01:23
nuba	so it could be called a JT-compliant asset	01:23
@rizen	i'm just not the guy to write ite	01:23
nuba	k	01:24
nuba	i may write, or help write one, eventually	01:24
nuba	right now im mostly learning the webgui way by inspecting other people's code and the api	01:25
@rizen	currently there's only one file in all of webgui 7.4 that follows the best practices to the letter	01:27
@rizen	lib/WebGUI/Keywords.pm	01:27
@rizen	we adopted the Perl Best Practices back in January, but it's going to take a long time before we can bring the entire codebase up to that standard	01:28
nuba	k	01:29
nuba	this Keywords.pm looks interesting, im updating to 7.4.1 to see it working	01:39
nuba	sounds like what I had in mind earlier today, re: mapping random assets inside webgui	01:39
@rizen	it's basically what other sites call "tags"	01:40
nuba	im failiar with tags and tagclouds	01:40
@rizen	but we already have HTML tags, template tags, and version tags	01:40
nuba	i mean the implementation	01:40
@rizen	so i didn't want to confuse the situation	01:40
@rizen	anymore than it already is	01:40
nuba	i mean a sitewide table	01:40
@rizen	well this API is capable of being applied to all assets	01:41
nuba	i thought of a locations table, with assetId, lat, long	01:41
@rizen	i just ran out of time	01:41
@rizen	so currently it's only for the wiki	01:41
nuba	yeah thats what I saw there	01:41
nuba	nice	01:41
@rizen	yeah, i think you'd need something different for the locations, but it would be a similar api	01:42
nuba	btw a locator form gadget would call for a sitewide googlemaps key	01:42
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nuba	so for it to work the site admin would have to go and fetch a api key	01:42
nuba	i suppose you're ok with that reqiurement	01:42
nuba	in the understanding that you'd be interesting in adding such gadget to the core	01:42
nuba	oops, interested*	01:43
@rizen	hmmm...i hadn't considered that	01:43
nuba	i thought "it would be interesting" but changed mind in the middle of it :)	01:43
@rizen	i guess it would be ok as long as people didn't have to use the key unless they wanted to use the asset that uses it	01:43
nuba	well, i can visualize that being like a WebGUI::Form::Location thing	01:44
nuba	is that how you think of it too?	01:44
nuba	or what?	01:44
@rizen	the form yes	01:45
@rizen	but the site wide google key...i don't want people to have to register for google keys just so they can create a webgui site	01:45
@rizen	so this location form control has to automatically disable itself	01:45
@rizen	unless the user has the key	01:46
nuba	ok. so if (nokey) { graceously poof }	01:46
@rizen	or if not disabled, it needs to downgrade gracefully to a simple lat/long field	01:46
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nuba	ok	01:47
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nuba	rizen: on the gotcha.txt, line 47, s/tempalates/templates/	01:57
nuba	also check this string	02:14
nuba	[root@frozen tools]# head -200 /data/WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt	02:14
nuba	and some repeated line	02:14
nuba	on http://www.plainblack.com/getwebgui/advisories/webgui-7_4_0-beta-released	02:14
nuba	lines*	02:15
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+crythia1	no public announcement on 7.4.1?	03:13
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Radix-europe	Mornin'	10:51
AMH_henry	morning :)	10:52
Radix-europe	:)	10:53
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xootom	i'm struggling with my groupings problem still, if anyone has a moment.. i mentioned yesterday about having a group for every school, and within this, a group for students of the school and teachers of the school. anyone can join the students group, but access to the teachers group is controlled. if i'm logged on as a teacher, how can i get a list of students of the school? i might be in lots of different groups, so how do i identify which group is a school and	14:09
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AMH_henry	@xootom: a group has a description field. You could fill that field with something that identify a school uniquely and search for it	14:17
xootom	ahh you're right, that would help. but how do i know which school i'm in as a teacher, if i get a list of my groups it'll contain all sorts including forum subscriptions, etc etc	14:18
AMH_henry	teachers also belong to a teachers group, right? You can use the description field in that group	14:19
xootom	true, maybe all the teachers of school x and teachers of school y groups should sit under a teachers group. then i just find which group they are in which is a child of the teachers group. then i take the description which is the school name, and find the group that is students of that name	14:23
xootom	not sure if its open to abuse though using descriptions like that, would forum post subscriptions contain school names or anything	14:24
xootom	perhaps it would be easier without a students group, they are just in the school group	14:27
xootom	yes that might work, a group of schools containing all the schools, a group of teachers containing a teacher group for every school, then i can find the teacher group for a teacher and using the matching description find the non-teacher school group	14:28
AMH_henry	who is responsible for adding students and teachers?	14:30
xootom	self registering students can add themselves to a school, some students will be imported from csv files and added to the school. teachers will all be manually added to their school's teacher group	14:31
Radix-europe	xootoo - we manage our groups using sql lookups. Every user has an account, but they don't belong to any groups by default. Instead we use sql lookups to determine group membership - so we have a table in mysql that equates to each user and simply a number of rows for each group with a boolean flag in each. Its simple but works a treat for us.	14:32
xootom	do you need to create them all as webgui groups first?	14:33
Radix-europe	yes	14:33
xootom	brb	14:33
AMH_henry	@xootom: another idea. Instead of using the description field, you could use AssetId as identification. Say each school has a unique number. All Students groups get assetId's like STUDENT<schoolID> (padding to 22 char. long) and all teachers group gets assetId's like TEACHER<schoolId>. This way you can easily find matching groups. It's a bit of an hack, but it's faster than using description field.	14:40
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xootom	@amh_henry: thanks, what are assetids normally used for?	15:55
AMH_henry	@xootom: assetId are the unique identifiers for an asset. btw, i meant group id	15:56
xootom	ahh that's a good idea, i was thinking of having the school group's id the same as the school's id in our crm system, i could prefix it with s_ or t_ or something	15:59
xootom	yeah if i precede it with teacher_ i can search for the group starting "teacher_" that the user is in to get the school's id	16:01
xootom	thanks for your help :)	16:01
AMH_henry	you're welcome :)	16:05
AMH_henry	Wow! Your version: You are using 7.4.0-beta and 7.4.1-beta is available.	16:10
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xootom	yeah i upgraded yesterday, these versions are coming out swiftly! got to make sure you don't miss one or the upgrade fails though	16:20
xootom	amh_henry: are groupids max 22 characters?	16:29
MrHairgreas1	yes	16:29
MrHairgreas1	all guids are 22 chracters	16:29
MrHairgreas1	please note that guids MUST be unique	16:30
MrHairgreas1	so only generate them by yourself if you know what you are doing	16:31
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xootom	sugar crm ids have 36 chars, maybe i'd be better using webgui to generate groups with random guids, and save those into the sugar db instead, or have another linking table	16:31
xootom	hmm i've got a groupid 3, admins and a userid also with 3, is that bad?	16:37
AMH_henry	that's default	16:39
AMH_henry	groupid and userid are separate things	16:40
xootom	ok so within a class of asset they must be unique	16:41
AMH_henry	hmm... assets, groups and users are different entities. They all have their own unique id.	16:43
MrHairgrease	assets have an owner	16:47
MrHairgrease	which is a userID	16:47
MrHairgrease	and a group toe edit and a group to view	16:47
MrHairgrease	which are both groupId's	16:47
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danny_mk	Good morning	16:53
MrHairgrease	hi	16:53
danny_mk	I know about the Forms	16:53
danny_mk	however, I was wondering if anyone had a macro that would build a date picker field with a popup calendar	16:54
danny_mk	since the yui library is already available it should be pretty easy to do	16:54
MrHairgrease	as far as i know there is no such macro	16:55
MrHairgrease	but it would be trivial to make	16:55
MrHairgrease	what i don not understand however	16:55
danny_mk	well, I am writting it now, just wanted to make sure it was not already done	16:55
MrHairgrease	is what you want to do with such a macro	16:55
danny_mk	well, how do you pass n+ fields to a sql report?	16:58
danny_mk	if the user has to input these fields?	16:58
MrHairgrease	oh	16:59
MrHairgrease	i see	16:59
MrHairgrease	your putting it in a sql report template	16:59
MrHairgrease	and use the result in the query	16:59
MrHairgrease	s/result/inputted date/	16:59
danny_mk	it would be nice to have a macro that created an input tag with a popup calendar and date validation	16:59
danny_mk	no	17:00
danny_mk	picture this. I have a sql report that produces a listing of states, something like: <a href="/wgasseturl/moreinfo?id=5">Connecticut</a>	17:01
danny_mk	the moreinfo page has a sql report that shows the current state information	17:02
danny_mk	underneath that I have an article that contains an html table for fields within that state that I would like to modify	17:03
danny_mk	the article is actually a form that has an action oofo /wgasseturl/updateinfo/	17:04
danny_mk	when the contents of the modified state information get posted to updateinfo the database is updated	17:05
danny_mk	does that help?	17:05
MrHairgrease	and updateinfo is a custom asset?	17:06
danny_mk	no, I think a sql report will do the job, have not gotten there yet. Still working on the date field deal	17:08
MrHairgrease	how does updateinfo update the db then?	17:08
danny_mk	I havent gotten to that point yet. I am still working on the more info page. I think it can be done with a sql report as well.	17:09
MrHairgrease	sql reports cannot update the db	17:10
MrHairgrease	unless you state that your dblink allows that	17:10
MrHairgrease	but allowing db writes through the sql report	17:11
MrHairgrease	will almost certainly open security holes	17:11
danny_mk	I can always write a custom asset, that is not show stopper	17:11
MrHairgrease	yeah	17:12
MrHairgrease	but if you do that	17:12
MrHairgrease	you won't have to use this really complex setup	17:12
MrHairgrease	also what you might consider using is the sqlform	17:12
danny_mk	hmm... I did not think it was complex at all	17:12
MrHairgrease	or maybe even a collaboration system	17:12
MrHairgrease	if you are using articles to create input form that send data to some other page which will try to update the db without the ability to at least sanity check the data that's being put in	17:14
MrHairgrease	i think your doing stuff too complicated =)	17:14
MrHairgrease	but that's just me =)	17:14
MrHairgrease	my guess is	17:15
MrHairgrease	that what you want to do is possible using the SQLForm asset	17:15
MrHairgrease	it's for power users only	17:15
MrHairgrease	but you seem like one	17:15
MrHairgrease	so give it a try	17:16
danny_mk	you know, the save button for sqlform was disabled on my installation, I have to figure out why	17:16
danny_mk	never mind, I just figured out why :-(	17:17
MrHairgrease	it's diabled b/c you haven;t typed in a tablename yet	17:18
MrHairgrease	ok	17:18
danny_mk	anyway, it would still be nice to have a macro that generated that type of field	17:18
MrHairgrease	sure	17:18
MrHairgrease	go ahead and code it	17:19
MrHairgrease	=)	17:19
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danny_mk	sort of like ^YUIWGDatePicker("myFieldName");	17:19
danny_mk	LOL, I was almost done with it when I asked	17:19
MrHairgrease	heh	17:20
danny_mk	I just thought to myself, "WHAT THE HELL am I DOING?"	17:20
danny_mk	LOL	17:20
danny_mk	I thought that there had to be an easier way, perhaphs someone already coded this or there is a way to do it already	17:22
xootom	is it intentional that the default group for sql reports' download user group is ad manager?	17:28
MrHairgrease	i don't think so	17:28
MrHairgrease	my guess is	17:28
MrHairgrease	that ad manager has the top position of the select box	17:29
MrHairgrease	alphabetically it's ranked pretty much on top i guess	17:29
danny_mk	MrHairGrease: You know the SQLForm is still in Beta and defiinitely showing some odd behavior. I got the "save" button enabled once when I typed in the table name	17:31
danny_mk	but now it just won't enable again, no matter how many times I type in the table name	17:32
danny_mk	I commited my changes and cleared the cache just in case but no dice	17:32
MrHairgrease	oh	17:33
MrHairgrease	that's weird	17:33
MrHairgrease	you are not importing a table are you?	17:33
danny_mk	does not matter	17:33
danny_mk	if I leave it unchecked its dissabled	17:33
danny_mk	if I check it its disabled	17:33
MrHairgrease	hmm	17:34
MrHairgrease	dunno directly what's wrong then	17:34
danny_mk	have you used it before?	17:34
MrHairgrease	i wrote it	17:34
MrHairgrease	but i haven't used it lately	17:34
danny_mk	Ah, OK	17:34
MrHairgrease	still	17:34
MrHairgrease	if something going wrong t should tell you about it	17:35
MrHairgrease	in stead of just not work	17:35
MrHairgrease	=)	17:35
MrHairgrease	which browser are you on?	17:35
danny_mk	what is the trigger to get it enabled?	17:35
danny_mk	I am using Firefox 2.0.0.6	17:35
MrHairgrease	ok	17:35
MrHairgrease	which dblink are you using	17:35
danny_mk	the one to my db	17:36
MrHairgrease	not the webgui db right?	17:36
danny_mk	it works fine for my reporot	17:36
danny_mk	no, not the webgui one	17:36
MrHairgrease	ok	17:36
MrHairgrease	are you allowed to create table in that db?	17:36
danny_mk	yup	17:36
MrHairgrease	and this table name you entered	17:37
danny_mk	hmm... let me check the username for that link	17:37
MrHairgrease	does that exist already?	17:37
danny_mk	darnit, in the list of allowed keywords I did not have "create"	17:38
danny_mk	let me test it again.	17:38
MrHairgrease	that shouldn't matter afaik	17:38
danny_mk	well, I did not think it should since the object already exists in the db	17:38
MrHairgrease	something has prolly gone wrong creating the table	17:39
MrHairgrease	it's just weird that it didn't complain	17:39
danny_mk	OK, I don't want to create the table	17:39
danny_mk	the table already exists	17:39
MrHairgrease	oh	17:39
MrHairgrease	in that case	17:39
MrHairgrease	you must be very careful	17:39
MrHairgrease	the sqlform will change you table	17:40
MrHairgrease	drop primary keys	17:40
MrHairgrease	add columns	17:40
MrHairgrease	so if you need it the way it is	17:40
MrHairgrease	don't import it	17:40
danny_mk	ok, then I can't use the SQLForm	17:40
MrHairgrease	that why there is an import this table switch	17:40
danny_mk	I would like to leave these as is	17:40
MrHairgrease	it will not import tables	17:40
MrHairgrease	if you do not switch it on	17:41
MrHairgrease	but it should've told you that	17:41
MrHairgrease	ok	17:41
MrHairgrease	in that case	17:41
MrHairgrease	you'd prolly be best off wrinting an asset specifically for it	17:41
danny_mk	Ah, LOL. I am back where I started :-)	17:41
MrHairgrease	but you can combine the view and edit mode for your db	17:42
MrHairgrease	in one asset	17:42
MrHairgrease	in a safe way	17:42
MrHairgrease	not by posting stuff to sqlreports with dblinks that allow updates	17:42
MrHairgrease	heh	17:42
MrHairgrease	good way to start the weekend =)	17:42
danny_mk	question 2	17:43
danny_mk	I know there are many webmail clients out there. I currenly use OpenWebMail. I was wondering if Webgui had a native WebMail client.	17:43
MrHairgrease	no	17:44
MrHairgrease	not that i know off anyway	17:44
MrHairgrease	of*	17:44
danny_mk	OK	17:45
danny_mk	There was a discussion on single sign on that showed a link to a collaboration suite written in Perl that looked interesting, I will have to find that again	17:46
danny_mk	I need a good WebMail client for one of my websites.	17:46
MrHairgrease	i don't think webgui offers you that	17:48
MrHairgrease	yet	17:48
MrHairgrease	it would make a pretty cool asset though	17:48
danny_mk	definitely would	17:49
danny_mk	Would need a team of developers just for that one I think :-)	17:50
MrHairgrease	or a lot of time	17:52
MrHairgrease	=)	17:52
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nuba	danny_mk: i checked a while ago and the roundcube project was pretty nice	17:55
nuba	danny_mk: in case you're fishing for webmail recommendations :)	17:55
danny_mk	sure, however it is hard to find software that is developed either using Perl or Java. I am trying real hard to keep my servers PHP and other software free	17:56
danny_mk	just a personal preference.	17:56
nuba	same here	17:57
nuba	not easy tho	17:57
danny_mk	nope, but I kind of prefer it that way :-)	17:57
nuba	actually I usually avoid java too, if possible :)	17:58
danny_mk	RoundCube Webmail is written in PHP	17:58
danny_mk	darnit!	17:58
nuba	yes, i know. I've used it for a while, did some custom stuff for a client, check the code, it's not that bad..	17:59
danny_mk	it is not about the code. PHP is pretty easy to understand, I just did not want another language to worry about on my apps.	18:00
nuba	have you found any good looking, perl-based, webmail ?	18:01
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nuba	or at least contemporary-looking..	18:01
nuba	i think openwebmail is nice but would use some interface revamp	18:01
danny_mk	openwebmail works great, however the interface is a little outdated for me http://openwebmail.org	18:02
danny_mk	right	18:02
nuba	yeah its hard to have that as the webmail offering in your portfolio	18:02
danny_mk	LOL	18:03
nuba	its feature-rich, but butt-ugly	18:03
nuba	as people are now used to interfaces like gmail's - for free	18:03
danny_mk	right	18:03
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danny_mk	If it would be integrated into WebGUI I bet the interface would benefit from YUI and the WebGUI api	18:06
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harleypig	Is there any known problem with starting spectre from the apache startup.pl script?	21:42
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harleypig	How can I make spectre use localhost instead of going all the way out to the dns server to find my local ip?	01:10
harleypig	Right now it's trying to connect to mydomain.com instead of localhost, so ithas to resolve the ip everytime.	01:10
@preaction	set your hostname in /etc/hosts ?	01:10
harleypig	I'd still have to set the hosts file to the external ip address.	01:11
harleypig	I guess it's not that big of a deal, now that I think of it.	01:11
@preaction	no, you could set the hosts file to 127.0.0.1	01:12
harleypig	No I can't ... I have other programs that require a valid ip for the domain name.	01:12
harleypig	I'm slowly getting rid of them though.	01:12
@preaction	that isn't a valid ip?	01:12
harleypig	Err .. a valid external ip.	01:13
@preaction	those sounds like some damned stupid programs :(	01:13
@preaction	spectre uses the first siteName in your webgui config, unfortunately so do a lot of other things	01:13
@preaction	(for display purposes, like mail sent out from a CS, but i suppose that's spectre sending out that mail)	01:14
harleypig	It just occurred to me that I should be setting the spectreSubnet variable to my external ip.	01:14
harleypig	blush	01:14
harleypig	That's why it's unable to connect.	01:14
@preaction	probably	01:14
@preaction	maybe even the spectreIp	01:15
harleypig	On another note on spectre ... is there a way to pass a command line parm that says exit if already daemonized.	01:15
@preaction	not that i know of	01:15
harleypig	I'm starting spectre in my apache startup.pl, but I guess I'm gonna have to add code to check if its already running.	01:15
@preaction	i don't know if spectre is process-aware of itself	01:15
harleypig	does spectre leave a pid file lying around?	01:16
harleypig	checking code	01:16
harleypig	Doesn'tlook like it	01:21
@preaction	i dont know if we'd consider that a bug, but rather an RFE (Having spectre become process-aware of itself)	01:22
harleypig	Yeah, I'd say it was an rfe too.	01:23
@preaction	but with that feature, we'd be able to connect to running spectre instances, which could allow for some very cool debugging	01:23
@preaction	feel free to post it, if we can get JT behind it it might make it into 7.5 (he's always looking for ways to minimize the problems people have with spectre)	01:24
harleypig	Ummm ... how much is acceptable? I haven't taken a deep enough look, but I know there is at least one module on the cpan that makes this easy.	01:25
harleypig	I mean, how much change is acceptable?	01:26
@preaction	how much what? i'd imagine it'd be as simple as spectre.pl checking for a $WEBGUI_ROOT/var/spectre.pid and then trying to connect using $WEBGUI_ROOT/var/spectre.sock	01:26
@preaction	as long as it doesn't break any existing API (you can extend them, but not break them), it's acceptable	01:27
harleypig	Ok.	01:27
@preaction	the difficulty though, will determine how long it takes before plainblack puts hours on it(unless someone in the community does it)	01:27
harleypig	:]	01:27
@preaction	posting patches, as long as they follow the WebGUI Best Practices (search the wiki), are usually immediately added to the next beta version (7.5.0 in this case)	01:28
harleypig	Wait ... connections to spectre are via http correct? If so, sock programming isn't necessary right?	01:34
@preaction	spectre connects to webgui via http, but currently there's no way to connect to spectre at all	01:34
@preaction	wait, webgui can communicate with spectre	01:34
@preaction	so yes, somehow. i think it's buried in the POE::Component::IKC::Client code	01:35
@preaction	i dunno, spectre's still a bit of a blackbox to me	01:35
harleypig	Oh. Why is it always more complicated than I think it is?	01:37
@preaction	the lament of every programmer everywhere ;)	01:37
harleypig	:]	01:37
@preaction	it always sounds easy, but it never is...	01:38
@preaction	the 90/10 theory: 90% of the cases take 10% of the work, the other 10% take 90%	01:38
harleypig	heh ... right.	01:39
harleypig	wierd ... in the spectre.pl code there is a line that is supposed to check if spectre is already running ... but I'm not seeing that error code.	01:39
harleypig	I need to back up ...	01:42
harleypig	I'm trying to get a source install working and I'm getting the following error:	01:43
harleypig	Couldn't connect to WebGUI site makethebad	01:43
harleypig	manstop.biz.conf at http://www.makethebadmanstop.biz:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData. Response: 500 read timeout	01:43
harleypig	Can anyone help me pinpoint this error?	01:43
@preaction	can you view that in a web browser?	01:44
@preaction	did you try: cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl spectre.pl --test ?	01:44
harleypig	No, I get a 500 error ... the log says ...	01:44
harleypig	I wasn't aware of that option ...	01:44
@preaction	it just tests connectivity, what does the webgui error log say?	01:44
harleypig	same thing	01:45
harleypig	Can't connect to data source 'dbi:mysql;makethebadmanstop_biz;host=localh	01:45
harleypig	ost' because I can't work out what driver to use (it doesn't seem to contain a 'dbi:driver:'	01:45
@preaction	that'd be your problem	01:45
harleypig	err ,,, error_LOG says this	01:45
@preaction	it should be dbi:mysql: (not ;)	01:45
harleypig	Oh ... wonder if that was in the default or if I fat fingered it ...	01:47
harleypig	I fat fingered it.	01:47
harleypig	sigh	01:47
@preaction	it happens	01:47
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harleypig	Hmmm ... now that url is returning a json stream of just {}	01:57
harleypig	and the spectre.pl --test is failing.	01:57
@preaction	is the site up?	01:57
@preaction	does the webgui error log say anything? how about the apache error log?	01:57
harleypig	Ah ... I see ... my ip isn't in the list ... but the ip spectre is coming from is, according to the error message.	01:57
harleypig	yeah.	01:57
harleypig	apache error log doesn't say anything	01:58
harleypig	webgui says samething ... 500 read timeout.	01:58
@preaction	how about above that? webgui and spectre share the same error log	01:59
@preaction	or pastebin a tail of your webgui error log	01:59
@preaction	perlbot paste?	01:59
perlbot	Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.	01:59
harleypig	I'm reading the wrong part of the log ... I cleared the screen (pressed enter a bunch of times) and ran the test again. No error in either log, but the console says: ERROR: WebGUI cannot communicate with Spectre. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreIp or spectrePort setting the this config file	02:00
@preaction	spectreIp in spectre.conf is the IP that spectre will try to bind to. spectreIp in the webgui.conf is the IP that webgui expects spectre to be on. both should be the same (and the IP of the box)	02:01
@preaction	so probably your internet IP	02:01
@preaction	and then spectreSubnets should probably include that IP as well (but i'm not sure if that's required)	02:02
harleypig	Hmmm ... I was focusing on the makethebadmanstop.biz.conf file because that's where the variable spectreIp and spectrePort are ...	02:03
harleypig	but I'll try changing the ip variable as well in spectre.conf	02:03
@preaction	yeah, that's the right one	02:03
@preaction	oh, sorry, thought you were meaning webgui.conf	02:03
harleypig	Isn't webgui.conf the one that should be copied and modified for each site?	02:04
@preaction	yes	02:05
@preaction	i just said "webgui.conf" to refer to "yoursite's webgui configuration"	02:05
harleypig	ah	02:06
harleypig	makes sense	02:06
harleypig	wow ... impressive starter once you get it going.	02:13
@preaction	the new site wizard thing?	02:13
@preaction	i've never actually tried it	02:13
harleypig	Yeah	02:13
harleypig	Makes it easy to get new sites going with virtual hosts ... very cool.	02:14
@preaction	one of these days i'm going to make a call-to-arms for WebGUI Source Install package maintainers for various distros. it will help since some people seem to dislike the idea of the WRE adding an additional Perl / Mysql / Apache to their system	02:15
harleypig	I don't ... that's why I went the source route.	02:15
harleypig	I've already got all three, on a limited space account ...	02:15
@preaction	exactly, the type of people we need for "hobby users" (which in turn ask their places of employment to use WebGUI) usually know enough to run their own apache / mysql / perl	02:16
@preaction	so if we can get a .deb package (depends on Apache2-mpm-prefork, mysql-server, image-magick, perl-5.8.8) and add some simple scripts to create / delete webgui virtual hosts, it would be easy to install webgui from source	02:17
@preaction	the create script would add the appropriate virtualhost config to the appropriate place	02:18
@preaction	like a2ensite does for debian	02:18
@preaction	wg_addsite <sitename> and wg_deletesite <sitename>	02:19
harleypig	I'm not familiar with those, but I keep my virtual hosts in separate files	02:21
@preaction	they don't exist yet	02:22
harleypig	So i wouldn't be comfortable automating thatpart	02:22
harleypig	ah	02:22
@preaction	wg_addsite would create a new virtualhost file from a skeleton, replacing the server name, according to the distribution's standard method of doing it	02:22
harleypig	oic	02:22
@preaction	it'd be customized for each distribution	02:23
@preaction	or, theoretically, we could just maintain a man page that would tell the users how do to it	02:23
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harleypig	and a default of a dumped file they could paste	02:23
@preaction	something like an entire <VirtualHost *:80> they could customize for themselves	02:25
harleypig	exactly	02:27
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+crythias	... and then I got the Wii and started moving content around with it within WebGUI and then...	03:31
@preaction	omg 31337!	03:31
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+crythias	http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/Lenovo_3000_N200_0769/0769AFU/N03062/extended/	18:00
+crythias	sorry	18:05
+crythias	wrong link	18:05
+crythias	http://www.freakingnews.com/PacMan-Pictures--1129-0.asp	18:05
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danny_mk	crythias, you around?	18:52
danny_mk	how bout you nuba?	18:53
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nuba	just passing by	19:41
nuba	oh hes not here anymore	19:42
nuba	nevermind	19:42
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danny_mk	Hi everyone	20:56
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danny_mk	hmmm... the encrypt login option does not seem to be available in 7.4.1	22:35
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+crythias	yawn	23:21
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wgGuest26	alive or memorex?	06:10
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crythia2	hm	06:13
PerlPilot	hmm hm hmmmm hmmm hm hm hm hmmm	06:16
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Radix-europe	hey dapperedodo - working from home today? :)	11:10
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arnaud__	hi	14:54
* arnaud__ feels alone...		14:56
arnaud__	is there an ongoing French translation (i18n part) for the latest version ?	14:57
xdanger_	http://i18n.webgui.org/	14:59
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arnaud__	thanks	15:00
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arnaud__	no unicode...HTML element only ?	15:02
arnaud__	We (french people) like to throws accent everywhere...	15:03
arnaud__	forget my last comment... Seems like the editor take care of converting my accents to HTML entities...	15:09
arnaud__	Should I follow the (english) text inconsistency ? Or correct it in my translation ?	15:26
arnaud__	"How many impressions (individual displays of the ad) has the advertiser purchased? If they purchased a number of clicks you can leave this at zero."	15:26
arnaud__	shouldn't it be : advertiserS/they or advertiser/he ?	15:27
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AMH_bob	Goodmorning!	16:07
arnaud__	hi !	16:08
arnaud__	(good afternoon here in France)	16:08
AMH_bob	(yeah, same here in Holland :P )	16:09
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danny_mk	anyone around?	18:19
nuba	no	18:27
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danny_mk	nuba, I can't figure out what style is used when visiting any page and passing ?op=auth	18:37
danny_mk	I thouoght it was failsafe	18:38
@Haarg	it's whatever is set for the 'User Function Style' in Settings > UI	18:47
danny_mk	Thank you, darn that was hard to figure out :-)	18:51
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sanyock	Hi People!	19:01
sanyock	Unfortunately:	19:02
sanyock	<tmpl_if session.var.adminOn>	19:02
sanyock	</tmpl_if>	19:02
sanyock	does not work for me :(	19:02
sanyock	7.3.22	19:03
@Haarg	when did it stop working?	19:05
sanyock	I did not use it previously and guess it should work in predefined templates, but it does not work in my template	19:06
sanyock	Just tried to add it and does not work	19:06
sanyock	This templates has some other macroses like ^AssetProxy("aulix/style1/navigation");	19:07
sanyock	and tehy work fine	19:07
sanyock	In resulting page <tmpl_if session.var.adminOn> does not exist but the text inside it does	19:08
sanyock	I commited and cleared cache	19:08
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sanyock	sorry, it was my mistake	19:21
sanyock	works fine now	19:21
wgGuest93	Hi. I'am a web designer and I'm new at CMS world. I've been reading and testing the demo of webgui; but I relly need more help (maybe starting from general concepts)	19:22
* sanyock wonders which SSO is the most popular and convenient: CSA or OpenID ?		19:24
wgGuest93	it is possible to install Webgui in a comercial Hosting?	19:25
sanyock	VPS	19:27
sanyock	when u r a root	19:27
wgGuest93	how i konw if im a root??	19:31
sanyock	if you do not know about root then most likely you should use plainblack.com shared hosting	19:33
wgGuest93	in this plainblack hosting, is Webgui pre-installed?	19:36
sanyock	yes	19:42
wgGuest93	there are several hosting plans at plainblack.com, will be enough with the "supported WebGUI hosting"?	19:47
nuba	danny_mk: you can look at the html for any unique-looking string	19:47
nuba	then search for it in the database	19:47
nuba	i do that with phpmyadmin, makes searching the entire db really easy	19:48
nuba	and to search the code i usually do "find /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ -type f \| xargs grep 'string' "	19:52
nuba	sometimes passing additional switches to grep	19:52
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danny_mk	talking about SSO, is someone working on a Auth module for OpenID or CSA?	19:59
danny_mk	I would be interested in using such a module.	19:59
danny_mk	OK nuba, I thought about that but the answer was easier than I expected.	20:01
nuba	danny_mk: you'll have to send karma this way: http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/openid	20:04
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danny_mk	if it does not get done soon I will have to take on the project myself. It would be good to have this module.	20:54
danny_mk	I am still waiting to be passed the baton for the chat Wobject	20:56
+crythias	oooh... chat.	21:18
+crythias	seems everyone is doing a php chat thing	21:26
danny_mk	no, not a php chat one	21:33
danny_mk	a Perl one for Webgui	21:33
xdanger_	nuba: just a quick note... why do you use find? why not just grep -R 'string' /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/* ?-)	21:47
nuba	habits	21:50
nuba	im used to do lots of things with find\|xargs	21:51
nuba	doing*	21:52
nuba	plus you have things like mtime, size, etc with find	21:54
nuba	pruning	21:54
nuba	find rocks	21:56
nuba	love it	21:56
nuba	:)	21:56
xdanger_	=P	21:56
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nuba	dumb recursing can be a real pita	21:59
xdanger_	I've never "really REALLY" mastered the *nix shell =)	22:00
nuba	well one is always learning :)	22:01
nuba	its hard to say one has really REALLY mastered anything..	22:01
xdanger_	I have a friend who (in my opinion) has mastered it... and many other things...	22:03
xdanger_	he has this incredible memory... he remembers every code that he has ever writen, and even all random generated passwords after just one read...	22:05
nuba	well, that happens sometimes i guess	22:06
nuba	now random generated passwords, after one read, thats crazyness :)	22:06
nuba	is he like "rain man" or anything ?	22:06
xdanger_	A little maybe...	22:07
nuba	heh	22:07
xdanger_	not in the "socialy stupid" but a little akward	22:07
xdanger_	He's now a very creative person... He always says that he's a little autistic	22:08
nuba	well they say no one is reeaaaly normal if you look close enough..	22:09
xdanger_	true	22:12
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AMH_bob	Hey, good morning!	16:17
SDuensin	Howdy	16:20
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danny_mk	preaction, are you around? Do you have the code cleaned up for the chat Wobject?	16:33
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synq	ielliew	17:34
wgGuest96	hai	17:35
synq	hai wgGuest Bart	17:39
Radix-europe	Hey Koen :)	17:40
synq	hai Jesse	17:40
synq	Radix?	17:40
Radix-europe	Yah	17:40
synq	shouldn't that be 'Radex' ?	17:40
Radix-europe	heh	17:41
Radix-europe	nope, I had the nick Radix before I went to your office ;)	17:41
synq	hehe	17:41
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Radix-europe	My friends saw the photo I took of the outside of the office and said you spelt my name wrong on the welcome board ;)	17:41
wgGuest96	:)	17:42
Radix-europe	http://www.flickr.com/photos/radix999/982431612/	17:42
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SynQ	hehe	17:43
Radix-europe	I decided to go see a few museums today - went to Museum Prinsenhof, Van Meerten and the Army Museum	17:44
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SynQ	nice	17:49
SynQ	how was the army museum?	17:49
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Radix-europe	Pretty cool actually.. lots and lots of weapons, suits of armor, uniforms, swords, pistols, rifles, guns, tanks, rocket launchers, and everything else you find in war	17:50
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SynQ	shot off limbs?	17:50
Radix-europe	http://www.flickr.com/photos/radix999/tags/army/	17:51
Radix-europe	the only museum I went to today where you could take photos.. and I took plenty :)	17:52
SynQ	old shit	17:54
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nuba	find /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI -type f -name "*pm" \| xargs grep "' '" \| wc -l	18:44
nuba	72	18:44
nuba	find /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI -type f -name "*pm" \| xargs grep '" "' \| wc -l	18:45
nuba	73	18:45
nuba	lots of single spaces being quoted here and there	18:45
nuba	will this get replaced by q{ } etc as suggested by the perl best practices ?	18:46
nuba	and are we adopting perltidy too?	18:47
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WebGUI	hi	20:36
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WebGU1	hi all	20:47
WebGU1	again	20:47
nuba	hu synq	20:47
nuba	hi*	20:47
WebGU1	hi	20:47
WebGU1	how is business in brazil?	20:47
nuba	doing fine, thanks :)	20:48
WebGU1	are you happy?	20:48
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nuba	sure	20:49
WebGU1	hi doug	20:49
WebGU1	JT around jet?	20:49
WebGU1	what time is it there?	20:49
@preaction	it's about 1:00p, JT's out due to some medical issues	20:58
WebGU1	oeh	20:59
WebGU1	he is pregnant?	20:59
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nuba	huh	21:07
WebGU1	huh	21:09
nuba	there are rumors he's gestating a new wre :)	21:17
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rjacobsen	i have updated webgui in the past and have had to change multiple stuff across the 20+ sites we are running webgui..... i would like to know what is the latest stable version of webgui is i can upgrade webgui to that has the least amount of bugs please	22:00
nuba	rjacobsen: latest stable was 7.3.22	22:02
rjacobsen	ty very much sir	22:03
rjacobsen	..... or mam	22:03
rjacobsen	whichever :)	22:03
nuba	"sir" would do :)	22:04
nuba	good luck	22:04
-!- preaction_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.1-beta 7.3.22-stable \| WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc .:. Feel free to ask questions on here - but make sure you stick around long enough for us to answer! :)		22:10
rjacobsen	will i have to change the permissions on all the sites after i update? (that would be hell)	22:14
@preaction_	which permissions?	22:15
@preaction_	which versions?	22:15
rjacobsen	the set permissions for people who can edit things on the sites	22:15
@preaction_	6.99.0-latest is generally a smooth ride	22:15
@preaction_	of course not	22:15
rjacobsen	like , you know, forums and events calendars and such	22:15
@preaction_	if you're upgrading through 7.3.0, the events calendars are going to get replaced with Calendars	22:16
@preaction_	read the gotchas	22:16
danny_mk	preaction: do you have the code for the chat Wobject?	22:56
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@preaction_	danny_mk, i could've swore i sent it to you, but i'll send it again	23:04
danny_mk	no problem, do you have my email?	23:06
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@preaction	the one at yahoo?	23:06
danny_mk	you could also send it to my message box at plainblack	23:06
danny_mk	yes	23:06
@preaction	it's sent	23:21
danny_mk	cool, I will take a look at it tonight. I am just putting the finishing touches on this macro: http://www.webgui.org/user_contributions/user_contributions/macros/yuidatechooser#MglP0tYpUb5G7-zsTI-GAQ	23:24
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nuba	danny_mk: nice	23:38
danny_mk	I am affraid that YUI or YUI-EXT does not provide date validation	23:40
danny_mk	however I have a script that adds methods to the Date object which works great. Validation is working well. I am testing it right now.	23:41
danny_mk	The only problem is that the user will have to add one extra files in either uploads or extras to include the date validation library.	23:41
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danny_mk	Do you guys see that as a problem?	23:42
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nuba	not for me. im just packing a macro to contribute too, and it has stuff under extras too	23:42
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danny_mk	OK, it is done. With validation. Do you have time to test it?	23:43
nuba	in a few..	23:43
danny_mk	Will let you know once I upload it.	23:43
nuba	let me know when you've uploaded it	23:43
nuba	ok	23:43
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--- Day changed Wed Aug 08 2007
danny_mk	OK nuba, I have updated the files.	00:07
nuba	danny_mk: i gotta split, bbiaw	00:24
nuba	then i'll look at your contribution	00:24
nuba	i have just posted a new macro too, CreativeCommons, check it out!	00:25
danny_mk	Cool, I will.	00:25
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nuba	tagclods will consider "this thing" as two separated tags, is that the intended behaviour?	03:54
nuba	one tag being "this	03:54
nuba	the other being thing"	03:54
nuba	perlbot, paste	04:01
perlbot	Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.	04:01
nuba	pasted a nice string2list at http://erxz.com/pb/3945	04:03
nuba	found at String::Escape	04:04
nuba	oops, i meant tagclouds	04:05
nuba	posted as a bug	04:09
nuba	preload.custom <- kickass feature!	04:59
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sanyock	Hi All	05:34
sanyock	Please let me know, why there is no SSL port definition in the config? General port is there: "webServerPort" : 80	05:38
sanyock	I need use port different than 443	05:38
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@preaction	sanyock, which config?	07:03
sanyock	preaction, I have a problem my ISP uses some cache software so that ports 80 and 443 work very bad for httpd	08:25
sanyock	so I have to change to 81 for http and say 444 for ssl	08:26
sanyock	unfortunately I cannot find where to configure this and it seems too dificult for me to change the source code of L_loginBox.t or related	08:27
sanyock	additional problem I have found that if visitor enters via SSL and then logges in, he is redirected to http (instead of keeping https)	08:28
@preaction	for that last bit you have to turn on Encrypt Logins (in the user tab of settings)	08:29
sanyock	it seems WebGUI does not keep previous state of the protocol and just returns to http after secure login	08:29
sanyock	I have had it	08:29
sanyock	the problem is that WebGUI changes back to not SSL instead of keeping SSL	08:30
sanyock	Actually I am thinking about turning off secure login, may then it will not try to switch back to http after login	08:31
sanyock	if user originally enter via ssl	08:31
@preaction	you may want to search the wiki or make a post on the forums about that, i don't think what you're describing should be happening	08:32
sanyock	It does, I tried to search forums on this topic	08:32
@preaction	yes, but since i can't help you (it's way too late and i need to sleep instead of pinning down this behavior), posting to the forums may be of more use to you	08:33
sanyock	ok, good night	08:49
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SynQ	morning :)	10:33
AMH_bob	Good morning!	10:33
Radix-europe	mornin	10:42
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+crythia1	hrm.	04:16
@rizenisaway	hrrm.	04:21
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AMH_bob	Howdy!	16:07
+MrHairgrease	hi	16:07
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+crythia1	an answer... in search of a question.	16:19
+crythia1	found online: "Last week I attempted to use Occam's razor to settle an argument, but I ended up with an unsightly rash.	16:19
+crythia1	Should I have instead used Occam's Easy-off Wax Strips or Occam's QuickRemover Gel with new fresh lilac scent? Has anyone tried these yet?"	16:19
+crythia1	http://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?s=0f3121222d855a01ed7cbea63aee62b1&p=277807&postcount=1325	16:19
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danny_mk	Preaction, you around?	16:41
danny_mk	I still have not gotten that email on the Wobject	16:41
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@rizen	danny_mk, what sized attachment can your email support?	16:50
danny_mk	I have yahoo and it seems that I have gotten pretty big files without a problem. I am not sure what yahoo limitations are, let me check!	16:52
@rizen	i know he's sent the email twice now	16:52
danny_mk	Hmmm... what is his email address.	16:53
@rizen	doug@plainblack.com	16:53
danny_mk	Maybe he just does not have my correct email address	16:54
danny_mk	it is danny_mk@yahoo.com	16:54
@rizen	i've asked him to upload it somewhere and send you a url	16:57
@rizen	mind you he's not yet awake	16:57
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danny_mk	it is OK, I just want to make sure someone works on it. I was looking at working on an OpenId Auth module	17:00
danny_mk	but I understand that is a RFE	17:00
danny_mk	I rather tackle the chat Wobject for now	17:00
danny_mk	but if not I will work on the OpenId module	17:01
@rizen	whereever you want to contribute you are welcome to do so	17:01
danny_mk	I need the chat Wobject	17:01
@rizen	we're certainly not trying to hold back the chat asset from you	17:01
@rizen	just technical difficulties	17:01
danny_mk	no problem, just want to make sure I don't duplicate work	17:01
+MrHairgrease	are you working on a chat wobject?	17:01
danny_mk	was...	17:01
@rizen	we've already written one	17:02
@rizen	and danny_mk has offered to enhance it	17:02
+MrHairgrease	cool	17:02
danny_mk	until I found out that other people had one written	17:02
@rizen	so that it can go into the core	17:02
+MrHairgrease	is it like the perlmonks chatter box?	17:02
+MrHairgrease	or can it actually connect to, say, msn	17:02
danny_mk	I have not seen the perlmonks one	17:03
@rizen	this isn't based upon any protocols	17:03
@rizen	it just uses standard http to allow realtimechat	17:03
@rizen	with thousands of users	17:03
@rizen	simultaneous	17:03
+MrHairgrease	so it's wg specific?	17:04
@rizen	yes	17:04
+MrHairgrease	ok	17:04
+MrHairgrease	I'll check it out when it's released	17:05
+MrHairgrease	sounds pretty cool	17:05
@rizen	we've been using it in production for a couple of months now	17:05
+MrHairgrease	If you want me to test it...	17:06
+MrHairgrease	I can try it out on the kornbeurs memebers site	17:06
+MrHairgrease	mebers*	17:06
@rizen	it works quite well for our needs, but danny_mk is going to introduce an ajax interface for smaller numbers of users, but with a fancier interface	17:06
+MrHairgrease	members*	17:06
@rizen	kornbeurs?	17:07
+MrHairgrease	www.koornbeurs.nl	17:07
+MrHairgrease	my 'student' club	17:07
+MrHairgrease	or what you call it	17:07
+MrHairgrease	you've been there once	17:08
+MrHairgrease	I manage the members only area of it	17:08
@rizen	cool	17:09
+MrHairgrease	The main site still runs on some really old homebrew php/html thingy my predecessor wrote	17:10
+MrHairgrease	but I haven't had time to convert it to webgui	17:11
@rizen	and you call yourself contributor of the year	17:11
Radix-europe	hehe	17:11
+MrHairgrease	no	17:11
+MrHairgrease	you did	17:11
+MrHairgrease	I just wlaked away with the prize	17:12
Radix-europe	MrHairgrease has been enjoying the drinking side of koornbeurs a bit too much and can't type.	17:12
+MrHairgrease	if radix_europe doesn't watch out he'll be the one having a difficulty in typing	17:13
Radix-europe	hehe	17:13
+MrHairgrease	actually he's sitting right next to me	17:13
+MrHairgrease	so the only thing holding me back right now from engaging in physical violence is compassion	17:14
@rizen	so how is your webgui sabbatical going radix?	17:14
+MrHairgrease	and of course the risk of retalliation	17:14
Radix-europe	I've been enjoying the beer	17:14
Radix-europe	Almost done here tho.. gf arrives tomorrow and off on my tour of europe this weekend	17:15
@rizen	did you learn anything from MrHairgrease?	17:16
Radix-europe	Yeah, he's given me some tips on how to read/write sql using the webgui api - been working on a basic sync workflow that synchronises webgui with our own database	17:17
Radix-europe	I've also been introduced to many different belgian and german beers while I've been here too - definitely a highlight :)	17:19
+MrHairgrease	radix_europe has almost become Dutch =)	17:20
Radix-europe	lol	17:20
+MrHairgrease	lol	17:20
+MrHairgrease	\|	17:20
+MrHairgrease	/ \	17:20
-!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.2-beta / 7.3.22-stable \| WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc		17:21
+crythia1	/(Help, I'm drowning!)	17:23
+crythia1	~~~\|o\|~~	17:23
+MrHairgrease	haha	17:24
+MrHairgrease	crythia1 wears no trunks	17:24
@rizen	so guys, quick opinion poll	17:25
Radix-europe	I don't like you	17:25
+MrHairgrease	option b	17:25
@rizen	who do you think deserves to be in the running for contributor of the year this year?	17:25
+MrHairgrease	was that quick or what	17:25
+MrHairgrease	option b	17:25
+MrHairgrease	i thin colin	17:26
+MrHairgrease	think*	17:26
@rizen	i think kathy for putting up with colin	17:26
@rizen	=)	17:26
Radix-europe	heh	17:26
+MrHairgrease	heh	17:26
Radix-europe	Colin gets my vote too	17:26
+crythia1	I've contributed by.. um.. not being so much of a jerk :)	17:26
@rizen	you're not a jerk	17:26
+crythia1	or annoyance..	17:27
+crythia1	hee	17:27
+MrHairgrease	iphoneguy	17:27
@rizen	i'm a jerk	17:27
+MrHairgrease	he created a more...	17:27
@rizen	who's been the most active helping people on the boards and updating wiki's and such?	17:27
+MrHairgrease	tight community	17:27
+MrHairgrease	everybody hated him	17:27
+MrHairgrease	so he was good for the group feeling	17:27
@rizen	you're right, i think he should get the vote	17:27
+MrHairgrease	dunno	17:28
+MrHairgrease	i don't read the boards that often	17:28
@rizen	me either	17:28
@rizen	i guess i'll have to run a report	17:28
+crythia1	Actually, I haven't contributed hardly at all. but then, the questions... I can't answer anymore.	17:29
@rizen	why can't you answer them anymore cry?	17:29
+crythia1	Well, they aren't so many newbie q's anymore, ... actually, not so many q's at all, really.	17:30
+crythia1	one or two people having issues, but upgraders ... not so much.	17:30
Radix-europe	I think the Wiki has helped with a lot of them	17:31
+crythia1	agree.	17:31
@rizen	well that's good then	17:31
@rizen	so maybe wiki should be contributor of the year	17:31
@rizen	=)	17:31
+crythia1	I keep updating one entry in my faq...	17:32
@rizen	which is?	17:32
+crythia1	I had a recent contributor.	17:32
+crythia1	the entry: What is the latest version of WebGUI.	17:32
@rizen	hehe	17:32
+MrHairgrease	heh	17:32
+MrHairgrease	maybe a wild idea	17:32
+MrHairgrease	but	17:32
+crythia1	But the point is, I keep links to both stable and beta.	17:33
+MrHairgrease	wouldn't it be a good idea to put your faq in the wiki?	17:33
+crythia1	it's too old	17:33
+crythia1	I mean, probably 10% is applicable any more.	17:33
+MrHairgrease	then put 10% in the wiki	17:33
Radix-europe	crythia1: if there is anything in you faq that is still applicable, it should be added to the wiki	17:33
+crythia1	almost all of it was 6.2	17:33
Radix-europe	So why do you bother updating it then?	17:34
Radix-europe	just redirect everyone to the wiki instead :)	17:34
+crythia1	http://www.gwy2.org/fomfiles/cache/52.html	17:34
+crythia1	probably should redirect to the wiki	17:35
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elnino	good morning. Quick question.	18:19
elnino	I upgraded to 7.3.22 and nobody is getting any notifications anymore. Is there a pareticular group they need to be a part of?	18:20
elnino	approval notification - type notifications. Not subscriptions.	18:21
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@rizen	did you restart spectre after the upgrade?	18:29
@rizen	cuz you need to do that	18:29
elnino	yep , but I can do it again, anything else to look at?	18:31
@rizen	run the spectre tests to make sure it's still able to connect	18:33
@rizen	and look in the mailQueue table to see if anything is waiting to be sent	18:33
@rizen	other than that, you'll need to contact plainblack support	18:33
elnino	ok. thanks. I'll logoff here and restart spectre. bye	18:35
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elnino	good morning. I'm still having problems with the approval notifications. I did some digging around.	19:08
elnino	I restarted spectre without errors.	19:08
elnino	I looked at running workflows and there are 11 listed	19:08
elnino	all of which are 'error". If I click on run, the response is "waiting"	19:08
elnino	If I do a spectre --debug. the message I get for all the waiting work flows is that it's "Was told to wait on EEIuxl-nLhtwJS7hcfAw0g because we're still waiting on some external event."	19:09
elnino	I did a select * on mailQueue and there iisn't anything in the table.	19:09
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elnino	If I do a spectre --status, the workflows are listed as "waiting".	19:10
elnino	So what is it waiting for? - they are all pending approvals. So are they waiting for the CM to approve them?	19:11
elnino	under my webgui settigns, the default version tag workflow is "commit with approveal.	19:11
elnino	To recap, I'm not receiving any notifications related to the approval system.	19:12
elnino	i'm running 7.3.22, and it was workgin before the upgrade from 7.2.1	19:15
elnino	I couldnt find a specific log for spectre. is it the same as webguis?	19:25
@Haarg	yes	19:29
elnino	Hi! is there a way to find out what external event my pending workflows are waiting on?	19:32
@Haarg	what kind of workflows are they?	19:34
elnino	approval ones	19:34
@Haarg	so they are probably waiting on approval right?	19:36
@Haarg	there should be messages about that in the inbox	19:36
elnino	yep there are. so that's what they are waiting for? So i guess that is a separate issue thatI'm trying to solve.	19:37
elnino	I never recived emails telling me that there were approval to make.and there is nothing in the queue.	19:38
elnino	Im trying to figure out why emails were never sent.	19:40
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elnino	emails to th users, as opposed to webguis inbox system	19:41
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--- Day changed Fri Aug 10 2007
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sstanvir	hello	05:22
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diakopter	rizen: you around?	05:38
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@rizen	sure	05:40
SDuensin	Evening, rizen	05:42
@rizen	howdy	05:42
SDuensin	Hmm. Spector is ignoring me. How rude!	05:43
@rizen	spectre is mean that way sometimes	05:44
diakopter	rizen: gj getting Config::JSON to pass all-green on cpantesters	05:45
@rizen	thanks	05:45
@rizen	apparently i'll be putting out a new release of it soon	05:45
SDuensin	I don't see any errors anywhere, the spector.pl --test passes, but my version tag sits in "pending". :-(	05:45
@rizen	Haarg has said he wants to update my tests so they aren't required prereqs	05:46
diakopter	yeah	05:46
@rizen	do you actually use config::json in something?	05:47
diakopter	yeah, WebGUI :P	05:47
diakopter	but...	05:48
diakopter	sec	05:48
diakopter	root@debian:/data/WebGUI/sbin [357] # which_pm Config::JSON	05:49
diakopter	Config::JSON '1.0.3' /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm	05:49
diakopter	the version number is not supposed to have quotes.	05:49
diakopter	root@debian:/data/WebGUI/sbin [359] # cpan Config::JSON <snip />	05:50
diakopter	I see you fixed that in 1.1.0	05:50
diakopter	so..... never mind	05:51
SDuensin	This could be bad: ADMIN: [Error] Couldn't fetch Spectre configuration data for new.blindsunlimitedonline.com.conf	05:51
@rizen	technically webgui doesn't use config json yet	05:53
@rizen	it won't until 7.4.3	05:53
diakopter	oh	05:53
@rizen	cuz of some bugs in config json i couldn't do the conversion	05:53
diakopter	well, I should've gone with my instinctive first answer then, to your question: testEnvironment.pl	05:54
SDuensin	I'm guessing I have a permissions issue somewhere?	05:54
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@rizen	probably not	05:56
@rizen	more likely you have a corruption issue somewhere	05:56
SDuensin	It only gives me that error on a couple sites.	05:56
SDuensin	Database, I assume?	05:56
@rizen	do a curl http://www.example.com/?op=getSpectreConfig	05:56
@rizen	i think that's the url	05:56
@rizen	you may have to look up the name of the operation function	05:56
@rizen	see what data you get back	05:57
@rizen	or what error	05:57
SDuensin	It gave me the home page.	05:57
@rizen	that's bad	05:58
@rizen	look in your log	05:58
@rizen	there will be an error	05:58
SDuensin	attempted to execute an invalid operation: getSpectreConfig	05:58
@rizen	like i said look up the name of the function	05:59
@rizen	in Spectre.pm	05:59
SDuensin	Root cause: Can't call method "get" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Spectre.pm line 53.	05:59
SDuensin	That's more helpful.	05:59
@rizen	Operation/Spectre.pm	05:59
@rizen	look in your WorkflowInstance table	06:00
@rizen	i bet you have some corruption there	06:00
SDuensin	So how do I fix it?	06:01
SDuensin	Corruption disturbs me greatly.	06:01
@rizen	delete the workflow instances that have no workflowId	06:02
@rizen	i found this on one other site a couple of weeks ago but i couldn't figure out what causes it	06:02
@rizen	it doesn't seem to happen on bigger sites like plainblack.com	06:02
@rizen	only on this one small site of mine	06:02
SDuensin	It has an instanceId and workflowId.	06:04
SDuensin	There are a few NULL values.	06:04
@rizen	oh, well then maybe this is something different	06:04
@rizen	the thing i saw didn't have a workflowId	06:05
@rizen	i guess you'll have to find out what is being called on line 53	06:05
@rizen	and why you can't call get on it	06:05
SDuensin	Ah! I see a blank one.	06:06
SDuensin	Trying to do this with the mysql command line client - output is hard to read!	06:06
SDuensin	Excellent. That did it. Thanks!	06:08
SDuensin	Somehow, you need to get your brain into the wiki.	06:08
SDuensin	Man, a lot of my sites have this problem.	06:08
@rizen	maybe you can track down a common thread	06:09
@rizen	like i said i've only seen it oncce	06:09
@rizen	and it's hard to fix it on one piece of data	06:09
SDuensin	I'd love to.	06:09
SDuensin	I know how that is. Worst kind of bugs to find.	06:09
vayde	rizen, we still on for a brew on Sunday?	06:14
@rizen	sure	06:15
@rizen	just give me a call	06:15
@rizen	you have my new cell number?	06:15
@rizen	i think i emailed it to you	06:15
vayde	yep	06:15
vayde	I'll call you when I'm done teaching	06:15
vayde	I'll also get to show off my new ride... BMW R1100RT	06:16
SDuensin	Thanks again, rizen	06:19
@rizen	np	06:19
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l-e-o-n	hi from where i can change the domain of a website ? for example it was on example.com and i want it to temporary.example.com ?	11:36
l-e-o-n	no one ?	11:45
l-e-o-n	when trying to restart webgui i'm getting this: MySQL manager or server PID file could not be found! [FAILED] but then no errors to start MySQL	12:09
sstanvir	u hv to change the apache configuration file to change the domain name	12:13
l-e-o-n	i'm using wre...	12:14
sstanvir	well.... there should be httpd.conf	12:15
sstanvir	probably at this path: /usr/local/apache2/conf/httpd.conf	<