WebGUI irc logs from: 2007-08.log

--- Log opened Wed Aug 01 00:00:33 2007
xootom	i remember that copying an asset doesn't also copy its children, is there any way of doing so? (is that the intended copy behaviour or a limitation of wg?)	00:20
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []		01:17
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #webgui []		01:33
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit ["Quit"]		01:44
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		01:54
-!- preaction [n=doug@CPE-67-48-247-114.new.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		02:06
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		03:25
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythia1] by ChanServ		03:25
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		04:10
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		04:16
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has left #WebGUI ["Leaving"]		04:39
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:39
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:53
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		10:03
-!- AMH_Mari [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		10:28
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		10:29
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		10:30
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #WebGUI []		10:33
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		10:43
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		11:15
-!- xootom [n=tom@195.224.29.66] has joined #webgui		12:06
Radix-europe	Is there still a developers site for webgui somewhere? Where is that located now?	12:18
Radix-europe	I recall there being a site with api documentation and the like somewhere	12:18
Radix-europe	Ahh.. API in the wiki has the link	12:21
xootom	hi radix, i got the addusers script passing through using the pass thru, it now executes fine but nothing seems to happen when i try adding users, no error message (unless I omit username etc). Have you tried it with 7.4.0 yourself?	13:01
Radix-europe	hmm.. not with 7.4 no	13:36
Radix-europe	try calling it from the command line	13:36
Radix-europe	see if it spits out any errors	13:36
Radix-europe	it should work with the 7.4 api fine (well.. unless someone changed something in the api that broke it! ;)	13:37
Radix-europe	i remember being told that the api is fixed for two years at last years WUC tho :)	13:39
xootom	ahh thanks that's working now :) when running from command line could see a path error on the config	14:43
xootom	is it possible to assign the user to a group>	14:44
Radix-europe	it is, but not using that code I'm afraid	15:07
Radix-europe	We do our groups using sql lookups to determine membership, so I never needed it when I wrote that code	15:08
Radix-europe	you could probably adapt the code from the userimport script tho	15:08
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		15:43
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		15:43
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		15:53
xootom	ok thanks	15:57
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@196.sub-75-207-30.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI		16:05
SDuensin	Good morning.	16:06
+MrHairgrease	hi	16:06
@rizen	thank you radix	16:19
Radix-europe	?	16:25
@rizen	for adding keywords to a bunch of wiki stuff	16:25
Radix-europe	Ahh.. I saw the keywords there and thought.. cool.. might add a few :)	16:25
Radix-europe	found a duplicate developers guide too so wiped one of them and kept the newer one	16:26
@rizen	hopefully everybody else does the same...i think it will make it easier for people to find stuff	16:26
@rizen	cool	16:26
Radix-europe	yup, definitely	16:26
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		16:26
Radix-europe	when I say wiped I mean blanked it out.. I can't actually delete it	16:26
@rizen	oh, do you know the url so i can do it?	16:27
@rizen	nevermind	16:27
@rizen	found it	16:27
Radix-europe	yeah, on top of the wiki list	16:27
Radix-europe	the tags are pretty cool :)	16:27
Radix-europe	only thing I realised while doing it is that we want to almost standardise on the keywords used in some ways	16:28
@rizen	that's the problem with all tagging systems	16:28
Radix-europe	true	16:29
@rizen	there is a method in the api to merge two tags into one	16:29
@rizen	buut i couldn't figure out a clean way of exposing that to the UI	16:29
Radix-europe	I was using the wiki a bit today looking up how to do things anyway, so just added the keywords while doing so :)	16:29
@rizen	so for now, it will just have to be a command line script or something	16:29
@rizen	i'm glad to know someone uses it	16:30
@rizen	i was afraid nobody was	16:30
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		16:30
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		16:30
Radix-europe	I like your webgui lite idea btw	16:30
Radix-europe	but couldn't find anywhere to post comments on it :)	16:30
Radix-europe	I was thinking about how packages and themes are done at the moment will need to be simplified - and would be nice if it was	16:31
Radix-europe	atm there's quite a few steps to import a theme like zenlike, etc.. would be nice to make it automatic somehow.. ie. select theme and voila.. applied to every page, navigation working, etc	16:32
@rizen	there i've enabled comments	16:32
@rizen	sorry, just didn't realize i hadn't before	16:32
Radix-europe	np	16:32
@rizen	that sort of concept only works on small sites	16:33
@rizen	on large sites you could really **** someone by automatically and indescriminently applying a theme to every page	16:33
Radix-europe	yeah, but that's what you're aiming at with webgui lite, no? :)	16:33
Radix-europe	I know :)	16:33
@rizen	yeah, but that doesn't mean that all of webgui should function to serve the small guy	16:33
@rizen	it has to be a balance, and that balance is usually going to be applied using switches	16:34
@rizen	outside of the reach of the small guy	16:34
@rizen	make decisions for them	16:34
Radix-europe	Sure.. perhaps a theme wizard that looks for themes in /styles or something like that and then will apply them if they select it	16:34
@rizen	my thought on that was actually to make it a step in the site starter	16:34
@rizen	upload a theme and it will be automatically applied	16:35
Radix-europe	sounds good	16:35
@rizen	anyway...i'm glad to hear someone is actually reading the blog too, i thought it might only be a couple of people, but lately i've heard from many people who are reading it	16:36
Radix-europe	I read it all :)	16:36
* MrHairgrease has nothing better to do either =)		16:36
Radix-europe	hehe	16:37
@rizen	well now that comments are enabled, i hope to see you guys not only reading, but throwing out feedback	16:38
Radix-europe	Well if I come up with any other ideas I will :)	16:40
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		17:07
AMH_henry	I was looking through the 7.4.0 source code when I saw that WebGUI::AssetClipboard::www_copy is modified to allow duplication of an asset including its children. What I cannot find is where in the UI this feature is enabled. Any ideas?	17:07
@rizen	it's when you click on the copy button	17:10
AMH_henry	yes, but it's looking for with as form parameter. I don't see that one posted anywhere	17:10
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:16
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		17:16
@rizen	?func=copy;with=children	17:19
Radix-europe	Speaking of 7.4 - just checked out the new site starter - seems pretty good, though it seems to create the default pages regardless - is this intentional or going to be fixed later?	17:22
@rizen	it has to create the default pages...they have lots of good information on them like how to log in	17:22
@rizen	and the introductory movie	17:22
@rizen	and where to go to get more information	17:23
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui		17:23
Radix-europe	Hmm.. I don't necessarily agree	17:23
Radix-europe	Would be nice to have an option for that	17:24
@rizen	this is the part where i get to tell you that i have scorn for 7 generations of your family and it doesn't matter what you think	17:24
Radix-europe	For a new user - offer them a tutorial or something perhaps, but an user who's already used webgui before the first thing they will have to do is go and delete the pages etc	17:24
@rizen	yeah, but those experienced users will at least know how to do that	17:25
@rizen	stop whining you whiny whiner	17:25
Radix-europe	Sure, but surely there should be an option to turn it off or not have it if you don't want it ;)	17:25
@rizen	this is the part where i get to tell you that i'm not an rfe list	17:25
elnino	time for a topic change? =)	17:26
Radix-europe	hehe.. sounds like it ;)	17:26
@rizen	no, i'm just having fun with radix	17:26
elnino	ok. you maay continue. =)	17:26
@rizen	or maybe at the expense of radix	17:26
Radix-europe	I'm just giving my 2c :)	17:26
@rizen	and i'm just throwing hate back in your face	17:27
@rizen	so i think we're even	17:27
@rizen	=)	17:27
Radix-europe	uhuh	17:27
@rizen	ok, let me actually defend my position in a civilized manner rather than just throwing out fud	17:27
AMH_henry	@rizen: thanx. link works great	17:27
+crythias	hey. I think we should make webgui be php	17:28
+crythias	no, no. I mean asp	17:28
@rizen	1) experienced users know how to delete pages	17:28
@rizen	2) it only takes a few seconds to do so	17:28
+crythias	webgui as application	17:28
@rizen	3) if you expose an option to delete the default pages noobs are going to click on it because they're noobs	17:28
@rizen	and can't help themselves	17:28
+crythias	:ACK: blank page!	17:29
+crythias	It's like I'm in WP5.1 DOS all over again	17:29
Radix-europe	okay - argument against	17:29
+crythias	or vim for that matte	17:29
@rizen	4) currently the site starter doesn't need to know anything about what pages are in the database and therefore can function even for companies who create their own create.sql to start, which lots of hosting companies do	17:29
+crythias	matter	17:29
Radix-europe	1) it's annoying having to delete them every time	17:30
Radix-europe	2) they take up hard disk space and reserve urls	17:30
Radix-europe	3) they're redundant once you've read them once - and could easily simply be on the webgui site	17:30
Radix-europe	since that's where you'd presumably downloaded webgui from anyway	17:30
Radix-europe	an option to either not add them, or even a command line option to addsite or something would cater for everyone - new and old user alike	17:32
elnino	are we discussing on whether to have default pages deletable in a new installation?	17:32
Radix-europe	yes	17:32
elnino	how about making it an option during installtion?	17:33
elnino	ie: install default pages, or not	17:33
Radix-europe	woohoo.. exactly what I've been asking for	17:33
Radix-europe	Anyway.. I see I won't get anywhere this way, so I'll try making an RFE for it	17:34
@rizen	the rfe isn't going to help you if you can't defend your argument	17:34
@rizen	your bullet points are good so far	17:34
@rizen	but they don't adequately address 3 and 4	17:34
@rizen	of mine	17:34
elnino	are # 3 and 4 referring to the person installing? or the person that is doing the content manageent?	17:35
@rizen	3 is referring to the new person coming to the webgui demo site, or a brand new webgui hosting site for the first time	17:36
Radix-europe	#3 can be addressed by simply explaining what the option does - and suggesting that users who are new to webgui click here (ie. recommended or something like that)	17:37
elnino	to me, the person installing isn't necessarily the person doing the content management. so to have the option to not install the pages during installation does seem to address #3a dn 4	17:38
@rizen	4 is referring to the many hosting companies out there that create their own create.sql files that are loaded rather than the default webgui create.sql file and therefore has information in it that we wouldn't know how to delete...or worse yet, they've just edited the default pages and so they have their default content which they don't want deleted using our asset ids	17:38
Radix-europe	#4 - Well it depends how this is implemented - if the default pages are put in a separate sql file and run only when selected then this would solve this	17:38
elnino	the content managemnt person can delete the pages manually if they want and when they want.	17:38
@rizen	radix: wrong on number 3 again, because PEOPLE DON'T READ	17:38
@rizen	they just click	17:38
elnino	but only the installer can decide whether to isntall them or not, and it would be to their benift to install them i f the content managers are noobs	17:39
Radix-europe	Sure they do - if you have a big fat (recommended) next to it and it's the default option they'll click it every time	17:39
@rizen	the default pages are not and will not be in a seperate SQL file	17:39
@rizen	it's just not possible to do that	17:39
Radix-europe	why not?	17:40
@rizen	have you seen the database schema?	17:40
xootom	is the default site configurable by the super administrator.., so if i'm offering a hosted webgui service, i could have a skeleton that i'd like created for all new sites with info on how to get support from myself, and that would be the new user's default each time, and give them a basic set of pages like contact, forums, gallery...	17:41
Radix-europe	xootom; at the moment the default site is hardcoded in the sql file - I'm arguing to change that a bit and make it easier for hosters to do exactly that	17:42
@rizen	look guys, i've got to get back to work. i don't have time to explain how all the internals of webgui work so that you can understand my argument. submit your RFE, and if it makes it to the top then we'll figure out a way to make it work	17:42
elnino	topic change? =)	17:43
xootom	could it use asset copy with children to copy a sub-tree out of the import node	17:43
elnino	or a package	17:43
-!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway		17:43
xootom	makes sense to me	17:43
AMH_henry	how about separate the default pages from create.sql and put them in a separate perl script instead?	17:44
elnino	suggested already... =)	17:44
elnino	I have a qeustion about rssfeeds	17:45
AMH_henry	rizen said that it cannot go to an new sql file, but a perl script is much easier to maintain	17:45
elnino	what does the "enable rssfeeds" do other than create a child "rss from parent' asset? i would have expectd it to provide an asset that allows a person to get the url of the feed.	17:46
elnino	or does is simply enable the ability, and I have to create the asset that gives the url to the user?	17:46
elnino	my guess is that the amount of sql statements it takes to create the default site is too huge for a perl script.	17:47
AMH_henry	we use scripts here to create pages directly as assets, no sql required	17:48
elnino	I don't know then.	17:49
xootom	can anyone help with a problem i've got, i must have overlooked something simple. can I pull an sql report, reporting on members of my class (which is a group) - so something like select * from results where group=myclass, so i can only see results for people in my class. Is there a macro to find the name of my group?	17:49
elnino	I think you can do that in the administrative side. View users in this group sort of thing.	17:50
@Haarg	there's a template variable rss.url to get the url for the rss feed	17:50
elnino	Haarg: is that only availabl ewhen I 'enable rss'?	17:51
xootom	yeah but i need the results of the sql report that only contain people in the group	17:51
@Haarg	yes. and it points to the 'RSS from Parent' asset.	17:52
elnino	right, it's in the administrave screen, or is your requirement to have it in a sql report?	17:52
elnino	thanks haarg.	17:52
Radix-europe	http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/option-to-not-get-the-default-pages-when-you-create-a-new-webgui-site	17:52
xootom	yes the sql report needs to show different data depending on the group i'm in, so i see data related to my group	17:53
elnino	xootom: if you enbable debugging: would it display the sql statements being run from the administriave screen so you can copy it to create your sql report?	17:54
xootom	maybe but that would be the static statement wouldnt it? i need a placeholder in my sql report that reflects the current user's group at the time (if that makes sense)	17:55
elnino	oh. I'm pretty sure there is a macro that gives you your group. Use that macro in the sql statement that you grab from the debugging.	17:56
elnino	I have another question: I'm setting a scratch variable in a macro that is called from a sql-based group: $session->scratch->set("loginat","here");	17:57
elnino	And then I'm reading it from a displayLogin in my Auth.pm module: $self->session->scratch->get("loginat");	17:57
elnino	but it doesn't seeem to be able to get it. I read somewhere that scratch variables are renamed, is this the case in which it renames scratch variables?	17:57
elnino	are scratch variables cookies or session variables?	17:57
@Haarg	they are linked to your session	17:58
elnino	is there a way to dump your session variables? because i can set them and read them just fine within the auth module, but not when it's set in a macro and then retrieved from the auth mod.	17:59
@Haarg	there isn't a macro to get your group. i'm not sure how that would work even, given that users can be in multiple groups.	18:00
@Haarg	you could look in the database, in the userSessionScratch table	18:00
elnino	thanks haarg.	18:01
elnino	xootom, haarg: oh.. I think I've been able to dump groups some how. I'll have to log off to get it. (site is behind I firewall, and I have to vpn to get there) I'll be back, if you can wait?	18:01
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:01
xootom	yeah :) thanks	18:02
-!- elnino_ [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui		18:08
-!- AMH_Mari [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:09
elnino_	xootom. I don't have a macro, but if you create a macro that calls $u->getGroups (from the Users.pm) then I think you'll get what you want.	18:09
xootom	ok that helps, i'll have a go. many thanks	18:10
elnino_	I have another question: I create my own auth mod, and would like to redirect users to a offsite login form. Is there an appropriate place in the WebGUI.pm auth (my auth mod is a copy of it) mod, that will allow me to redirect the user before anything is written to the headers?	18:11
elnino_	I tried doing this in the displayLogin proceedure, but stuff was already written to the headers.	18:11
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:13
elnino_	hopefully that makes sense?	18:13
-!- preaction [n=doug@CPE-67-48-247-114.new.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui		18:14
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		18:14
Radix-europe	Hey doug	18:16
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		18:20
elnino_	Hi. I'll reword my question: I've copied the webgui.pm auth module as my own, and would like to instead redirect a user to the login screen (a static page). Is there an appropriate place to do this? I tried within the displayLogin proceedure, but html has been written already, so I couldn't redirect the user. Or is it too late by the time that auth mod is instanciated?	18:20
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Leaving"]		18:24
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has left #webgui []		18:24
elnino_	hopefully someone can tell?	18:30
elnino_	help	18:31
pjesi	sorry don't know yet, but I am starting to do similar stuff	18:32
elnino_	glad to know that it's not a crazy idea.	18:33
elnino_	I've mananged to rewrite the form so that it submits to the static page, but that's not working to well, and someting tells me that's not really a good idea. The static login page is on a different subdomain. What have you all tried pjesi?	18:35
pjesi	elnino_: you are way ahead of me, I am just starting to figure out how to implement the custom auth module	18:36
elnino_	if anyone is looking into my question, plesae let me know and I'll wait, otherwise, I need to log off to vpn into work. - I can't work while logged into this.	18:48
-!- elnino_ [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		18:53
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		18:56
-!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen		18:59
@rizen	quick opinion poll	18:59
@rizen	If you ran the following command: ./wreservice.pl --start mysql	18:59
@rizen	and it fails	18:59
@rizen	do you want it to say	19:00
@rizen	a) nothing	19:00
@rizen	b) Couldn't start MySQL	19:00
@rizen	c) A full error message that tells you everything it can about why it couldn't start mysql	19:00
@rizen	?	19:00
xootom	c	19:00
xootom	can anyone tell me if there is any documentation to the graphing API? Is it accessible through an SQL report, so I can show say a plot instead of a table?	19:07
@rizen	it is not currently available to the SQL report, although that is something that perlDreamer is working on for 7.5	19:09
@rizen	there are api docs for it at http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds	19:09
@rizen	then choose your version	19:09
xootom	looked through there but couldn't see anything about graphs	19:10
@rizen	http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.22-stable/api/Image.html	19:15
xootom	ah ha it's under image	19:15
@rizen	http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.22-stable/api/Image/Graph.html	19:16
@preaction	i'd pick "c" as well, I'd want to know everything	19:16
xootom	yes, only the admin is going to see it (and panic, trying to find the cause)	19:17
@preaction	does that mean that the wreservice.pl script is actually going to tail the mysql error log for me?	19:17
@preaction	because that would be killer	19:17
@rizen	no, but i suppose it could	19:18
xootom	not sure how clean that would look, perhaps it could suggest the user tails it, and gives the full command with path, to prompt the admin	19:19
@rizen	could have a --tail option	19:19
-!- khenn_ [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		19:22
@preaction	so wreservice.pl will be the frontend through which individual OSes rc scripts are written?	19:22
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		19:22
xootom	rc.webgui already does that doesn't it, e.g. rc.webgui startmysql	19:24
@preaction	right, i'm thinking wreservice.pl is the new rc.webgui	19:25
nuba	rizen: b) Couldn't start MySQL. With maybe a pointer to "check /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/var/$hostname.err for more information"	19:43
nuba	dunno, but i'd rather have the error go to mysql's own error log	19:45
@preaction	it will be there, mysql does that itself	19:45
@preaction	i'd just like to avoid going to dig it out myself, so the option to --tail or --verbose would be nice	19:46
nuba	a --verbose would be fine too	19:46
xootom	or oppositely a --quiet	19:53
nuba	heh	19:54
@preaction	imho quiet should be default. if the program wants to notify the user that there IS more to see with --verbose, it can go ahead	19:57
@preaction	progressive enhancement, instead of graceful degradation	19:57
nuba	i think the default should be 'loaded service foo ok' or 'couldn't load service foo'. a --quiet would output nothing except maybe errors to sdterr, and a --verbose would spill the detailed errors too	19:59
xootom	i suppose it depends if the target user is an admin interactively running the command, then in the use case of it failing, they need to fix it asap with all the info they can get. If it's feeding an error status back to something else, then i can see why detailed errors might not be appropriate	20:01
nuba	i dont think its fit for a --quiet to produce output like 'loaded foo ok'. when you have a --quiet switch it usually means 'output nothing unless strictly necessary'	20:01
xootom	i'm not sure why by default you'd want to hide information that might help the admin diagnose why the command failed	20:02
@preaction	i'm thinking this is THE script to start/stop the wre services, from cron, from remote, from web, from console, from startup, etc...	20:02
@preaction	by default it should do what most startup scripts do, "Starting Blah... OK" or "Starting Blah... FAILED" (something along those lines)	20:03
xootom	i'm not sure what the convention is for such scripts within webgui to feed back to the interface, return codes etc.	20:03
xootom	yeah	20:03
nuba	preaction: yup, thats what im understanding too	20:03
danny_mk	Good afternoon! preaction: Did you get the code for the chat Wobject cleaned up?	20:04
nuba	in such cases when you dont have a --quiet switch you sometimes have to redirect stderr/stdout to /dev/null	20:04
@preaction	danny_mk, lord no, i'm sitting in a starbucks lounge just so i can put in my 8 hours of work today. i can give you what i have now along with some instructions on what needs to be deleted or cleaned up	20:05
danny_mk	cool. Can you mail it to danny_mk@yahoo.com?	20:07
@preaction	k, give me 30 minutes about.	20:07
danny_mk	sure, take your time, I have plenty of work to do :-)	20:08
-!- xootom [n=tom@195.224.29.66] has quit ["Leaving."]		20:40
-!- wgGuest52 [n=wgGuest5@72.85.248.223] has joined #webgui		20:52
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		21:08
-!- sno [n=sno@adsl-76-226-124-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #WebGUI		21:25
sno	Good day	21:25
-!- sno [n=sno@adsl-76-226-124-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"]		21:49
nuba	wonder if he thinks he was snobbed away then left	21:54
nuba	we should have a bot here for handling such cases	21:55
nuba	eliza-powered	21:55
nuba	:)	21:56
@rizen	i thought that's why we set up the nuba bot	21:59
@rizen	hello nuba, my name is rizen	21:59
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		22:00
xootom	rizen, you were helping me yesterday with my problem of how to represent teachers and students in a particular school in webgui, and the way forward was to have each school as a group. now my problem is, how can a report show details about students in one school to the teacher of that school, without having to write custom reports for every school? if the school was a profile field (my original thought) then i'd have been able	22:10
@rizen	how is being in a group different from being in a profile field in that sense?	22:12
@rizen	both are database tables	22:12
xootom	just that i can write an sql report using the profile fields in where clauses	22:12
@rizen	you can do the same with groups	22:12
@rizen	the two tables in question are groups and groupings	22:12
@rizen	in webgui, unless it's a file, it's stored in the database	22:13
@rizen	so everything is a table you can report on	22:13
xootom	true, i'm wondering if there will be a problem if they're in multiple group	22:13
xootom	s	22:13
@rizen	why would there be a problem...you're looking for a specific school name and a specific user	22:14
@rizen	the same as you would be in the profile	22:14
xootom	yeah of course	22:14
@rizen	in fact, it will be easier to deal with multiples using groups than with profiles	22:14
@rizen	cuz groups are designed for multiples	22:14
@rizen	profiles aren't	22:14
xootom	that's true. yes i think i'm getting my head too muddled :)	22:15
SDuensin	Hey rizen - another FYI... Just posted all-new installation instructions for my desktop app. MUCH easier to do now.	22:15
@rizen	keep in mind that you may be better off writing an asset for this reporting simply because the perl API changes way less frequently than the database schema	22:16
@rizen	sweet SD. i have to be honest with you though, the main reason i haven't checked it out yet is that my busiest time of the year is april through september...after the WUC i'll have lots more free time	22:17
SDuensin	That's cool. I completely understand. That's why there's no YUI desktop yet. :-P	22:17
@rizen	xootom, not that the database schema for users and groups changes that often	22:18
@rizen	rarely, if ever in fact...but that's not true of most other tables	22:18
@rizen	just wanted to let you know in advance	22:19
xootom	yeah i think you might be right	22:19
xootom	at the moment i'm just trying to get things in place as quickly and simply as possible, my perl skills aren't up to much yet :(	22:20
@rizen	you should come to the development workshop at the WUC	22:20
@rizen	two days of intensive perl and webgui api to get you up to speed	22:20
xootom	would love to but i'm in the uk	22:21
@rizen	or...you could always contact dev@plainblack.com and have us build it for you	22:21
@rizen	Radix is in Australia, but he came last year	22:21
@rizen	we have people from all over the world every year	22:21
xootom	when is it?	22:21
@rizen	3rd week in october: http://www.plainblack.com/wuc	22:22
xootom	mmm looks good	22:24
nuba	rizen: huh	22:29
@rizen	i was saying you are a bot	22:29
@rizen	joke didn't work	22:29
@rizen	nevermind	22:29
nuba	i was out having some snacks	22:29
nuba	you know, organic fuels for organic bots aka humans	22:30
nuba	now, some eliza bot can even be helpful when extracting info from people looking for webgui support	22:31
nuba	"why do you say that?"	22:31
nuba	"did you check the forum?" "what do you see at the logs?" etc.	22:31
nuba	"interesting. can you please be more specific?" thats one inspired on the thx1138 film :)	22:34
@rizen	it's a public irc channel...write a bot and connect it	22:34
@rizen	sounds like a good idea	22:34
nuba	any bot name idea ?	22:38
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		22:38
* SDuensin has a bot. It plays Infocom games. :-)		22:44
@rizen	how about eliza	22:47
@rizen	or is that too obvious?	22:47
nuba	too obvious i think..	22:48
nuba	using prj2501.. that clued AI bot from ghost in the shell	22:49
-!- prj2501 [n=bleep@hq.imaterial.org] has joined #webgui		22:49
nuba	prj2501: test	22:49
nuba	ok its working in private /msgs	22:50
nuba	let me get it to work here..	22:50
nuba	prj2501: test	23:08
prj2501	nuba: I'm not sure I understand you fully.	23:09
nuba	prj2501: why not? im just saying my webgui isnt working!	23:09
prj2501	nuba: Is it important to you that your webgui isnt working?	23:09
nuba	prj2501: of course it is! i have a deadline to meet. can you help me?	23:09
prj2501	nuba: Do you say you have a deadline to meet for some special reason?	23:09
nuba	yes, you know, bringing milk to the kids, etc.	23:10
nuba	oops, it won't work without the nick ..	23:10
nuba	that would be complicated to handle	23:10
nuba	will leave it that way	23:11
@preaction	oh god now we have an elizabot...	23:12
@preaction	prj2501: You are hereby commanded to help teh n00bz	23:12
prj2501	preaction: Perhaps you would like to be hereby commanded to help teh n00bz.	23:12
nuba	hehe	23:13
@rizen	prj2501 licks balls	23:14
nuba	prj2501 test	23:15
nuba	changing the regexp again..	23:16
xootom	ooo i've just built php against the wre's mysql, every few requests it's not connecting to mysql, webgui sites returning Fatal Internal Error :S	23:27
SDuensin	:-(	23:27
nuba	prj2501 licks JT's balls	23:31
prj2501	nuba: Does talking about this bother you?	23:31
nuba	there you go	23:31
nuba	i love irssi	23:33
nuba	and its embedded perl feature	23:33
prj2501	me too. i couldnt live without it!	23:34
prj2501	now go back to work, silly human!	23:35
nuba	k	23:35
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		23:40
xootom	hmm for some reason my wre's mysql is restarting every 30 seconds or so	23:43
xootom	ahh think it's cos i deleted the test database by accident, so spectre's rebooting it every 30s...blush...	23:47
@preaction	eh, it happens to the best of us	23:47
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@196.sub-75-207-30.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		23:54
--- Day changed Thu Aug 02 2007
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui		00:24
elnino	hello? real quick question. What object (perl module) and method do I use to check to see what url parameters have been pased to a page?	00:24
-!- wgGuest52 [n=wgGuest5@72.85.248.223] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		00:28
@preaction	elnino, the webgui way? WebGUI::Session::Form	00:32
@preaction	otherwise you can use CGI.pm	00:32
elnino	webgui way. =) I'm lookin specifically when the ?op=auth;method=init is set..	00:34
elnino	which is kinda weird. What does the semi colon do? isn't that supposed to be an &?	00:34
@preaction	yes, WebGUI::Session::Form. the $session has a ->form to get the WebGUI::Session::Form object	00:34
@preaction	no, semicolon is the preferred method these days	00:35
elnino	oh. that's new. So those are two different parameters. That's what I wanted to know. Thanks!	00:35
@preaction	mainly because & is also the start of an HTML entity (as you pointed out, & or " or <)	00:35
elnino	that would make sense.	00:36
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		00:36
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		00:36
elnino	another question that is a little more depth, but it took me for ever to figure out why my form wasn't working.	00:36
@preaction	elnino, just a word of warning: be careful making a new Auth. some of the subroutines in WebGUI::Auth do not have the same prototype as their children in WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI	00:37
elnino	any idea why webgu's form defaults to enctype="multipart/form-data" when it should be "application/x-www-form-urlencoded" by default?	00:37
@preaction	because multipart/formdata allows for file uploads	00:37
@preaction	application/x-www-form-urlencoded is just one part of a multipart/form-data POST	00:38
elnino	yea. but I was using that method, not knowing you defaulted it to that, and my form wouldn't work untill I changed it to "application/x-www-form-urlencoded" that bit me hard for several hours.	00:38
elnino	opps. did that come accross? it doesn't look right on my chat software.	00:39
@preaction	that's weird	00:40
elnino	back to your warning... I copied /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Auth/WebGUI.pm. to create my own auth mod. Should I have copied the parent Auth.pm?	00:40
@preaction	no, you did right, i'm just saying be careful because it's a lot of messed up in there :(	00:41
elnino	lot of ?? people?	00:41
@preaction	no, it's just messy. some bad things that can't be fixed because it will break API	00:41
@preaction	pardon my broken english	00:42
elnino	OK. Thanks for your help, preaction, I'm signing off to read url parameters!	00:43
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		00:44
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving."]		00:54
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui		01:00
elnino	hi preactioin... What object did yousay I needed to use for looking at url parameters? I can't seem to find it...	01:01
@preaction	WebGUI::Session::Form	01:01
@preaction	it's part of the session object, $session->form->get("parameter name")	01:01
elnino	oh.. I'll look again. Thanks! bye.	01:02
elnino	Super.. Thanks!	01:02
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit]		01:02
+crythias	Radix_ you there?	01:16
+MrHairgrease	he probably is not	01:16
+MrHairgrease	he's in the Netherolands right now	01:17
+MrHairgrease	and uses the nick radix_europe	01:17
+MrHairgrease	but maybe he's using Radix_ too	01:17
+crythias	heh. OK. I was thinking about the default install of new sites.	01:17
+MrHairgrease	ok	01:18
+crythias	back 8 hours ago.	01:18
+MrHairgrease	he'll prolly be online tomorrow again	01:18
+crythias	the problem was about the default install adding pages...	01:18
+MrHairgrease	in the bestedest timezone of the world =)	01:18
+MrHairgrease	yeah	01:18
+MrHairgrease	i read a bit of it	01:18
+MrHairgrease	but i understand the difficulties	01:19
@preaction	7.4 fixed that iirc. you could add something to the wizard that would remove everything	01:19
+crythias	why not simply have the default site as a package to deploy, even if you don't install it?	01:20
+MrHairgrease	i dunno	01:20
+crythias	that is a cool way to show what the package thing does.	01:20
+MrHairgrease	and it's about 00;20 over here	01:21
+MrHairgrease	so i don;t wanna know right now =)	01:21
+crythias	ah. I'm -6 hours from you. I should get home.	01:21
+MrHairgrease	yeah	01:21
+MrHairgrease	you should	01:21
+MrHairgrease	=)	01:21
+MrHairgrease	it's almost weekend =)	01:22
+MrHairgrease	only two days to go	01:22
+MrHairgrease	are you attending the wuc this year btw?	01:22
+crythias	I don't know.	01:24
+crythias	I'm going to see. Every year, I think I'm going to go somewhere.	01:25
+MrHairgrease	somewhere else during the wuc you mean?	01:25
+crythias	well, last year I thought I was going to be moving.	01:25
+MrHairgrease	ah i see	01:26
+MrHairgrease	but you didn't?	01:26
+MrHairgrease	so you're gonna move this year?	01:26
+crythias	no. chickened out.	01:26
+MrHairgrease	ok	01:26
+MrHairgrease	that's not too bad	01:26
+MrHairgrease	before you know it	01:26
+crythias	actually, job is secure, but we were looking to upgrade house.	01:26
+MrHairgrease	you'll be lik emicheal j fox in back to the future	01:26
+MrHairgrease	ok	01:27
+crythias	what? I'll get a Delorean?	01:27
+crythias	and be able to use a remote control to control it?	01:27
+MrHairgrease	i read somewhere deloerean is manufacturiong again	01:27
+MrHairgrease	i'd opt for a kitt	01:27
+crythias	I'll have my mom think I'm hot?	01:27
+MrHairgrease	i have this thing for flashing leds	01:28
+crythias	actually, have my mom think I'm Calvin Klein?	01:28
+crythias	that's really creapy.	01:28
+MrHairgrease	wtf?!?!?	01:28
+MrHairgrease	you aren't calvin klein?	01:28
+MrHairgrease	that a disappointment	01:28
+crythias	well, I don't wear CK on my undies, that's for sure.	01:28
+MrHairgrease	i'm sucking up to the worng people =)	01:29
+crythias	and not so sure I need to fall out of a tree so my mom can take me in ...	01:29
+crythias	anyway, how would I be like MJF?	01:29
+MrHairgrease	MJF?	01:29
+crythias	Michael J Fox	01:29
+MrHairgrease	you aren't	01:29
+crythias	comeon, it's your analogy...	01:29
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		01:30
+MrHairgrease	i must have been using drugs	01:30
+MrHairgrease	without noticing	01:30
+crythias	(18:26:36) MrHairgrease: that's not too bad	01:30
+crythias	(18:26:42) MrHairgrease: before you know it	01:30
+crythias	(18:26:45) crythias: actually, job is secure, but we were looking to upgrade house.	01:30
+crythias	(18:26:53) MrHairgrease: you'll be lik emicheal j fox in back to the future	01:30
+MrHairgrease	oh that	01:30
+MrHairgrease	that was about the chicken part	01:30
+MrHairgrease	or better said	01:30
+MrHairgrease	you chickening out	01:30
+crythias	oh. how he gets all mad being called chicken	01:30
+MrHairgrease	yeah	01:31
+crythias	ok.	01:31
+crythias	'cause, yaknow, I wouldn't mind having a DeLorean	01:31
+crythias	heheh	01:31
+MrHairgrease	sure	01:31
+MrHairgrease	but where do you get the jigowatts	01:31
+crythias	Mr. Reactor	01:31
+MrHairgrease	lightning is seldom over here	01:32
+MrHairgrease	oh yeah	01:32
+MrHairgrease	just dump your trash in your car	01:32
+crythias	but it's all about the petrol	01:32
+crythias	hey. how do you know that's what I do to my car? oh. you prob. mean the reactor	01:32
+MrHairgrease	petrol is too expensive over here	01:32
+MrHairgrease	so for now	01:33
+MrHairgrease	i'll keep using my bike	01:33
+crythias	we should be burning bole weevels	01:33
+MrHairgrease	bole wheevels?	01:33
+MrHairgrease	what are those	01:33
+crythias	the scurge of the cotton crops	01:33
+crythias	scourge	01:33
+MrHairgrease	ah	01:33
+MrHairgrease	scourge�� (sk�rj) �Pronunciation Key�	01:34
+MrHairgrease	n.�� A source of widespread dreadful affliction and devastation such as that caused by pestilence or war. A means of inflicting severe suffering, vengeance, or punishment. A whip used to inflict punishment.	01:34
+MrHairgrease	sounds fun...	01:34
+crythias	in fact, we could be running on maggot energy.	01:34
+MrHairgrease	ok	01:34
+crythias	that's renewable in only a few days.	01:34
+MrHairgrease	i see it's time to quit and go to bed	01:35
+MrHairgrease	=)	01:35
+MrHairgrease	later guys	01:35
+crythias	making a car with efficient use of protein.. later	01:35
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []		01:35
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui []		01:40
-!- preaction [n=doug@CPE-67-48-247-114.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer]		01:58
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		02:08
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui		02:35
elnino	hello. I'm trying to dump the value of a cookie, that has a bunch of key value pairs:	02:48
elnino	my ($cookies) = $session->http->getCookies;	02:48
elnino	my $authcook = $$cookies->{'cookiename'};	02:48
elnino	return $authcookie->{$hashkey};	02:48
elnino	but I must be doing something wrong? I don't quite understand hashes...	02:48
elnino	oh. geez, I see a variable is named wrong.. Other than that does the code look correct?	02:49
elnino	I gotta go, Ill try this, and may be back	03:52
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		03:52
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		04:05
-!- preaction [n=doug@h46095ef8.area4.spcsdns.net] has joined #webgui		04:06
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		04:06
@preaction	finally EVDO is working for me. I can work from home tomorrow.	04:07
@preaction	the latency is something like 2 seconds, but i can live with that	04:07
SDuensin	2 seconds?!	04:08
SDuensin	You live on the moon or something?	04:08
@preaction	no, it's cellular and i'm getting poor reception	04:09
@preaction	4 bars of 8, i imagine if i went outside it'd be better	04:09
SDuensin	I use EVDO every day. It's NIIIIIIIICE.	04:09
@preaction	looks like just a few hundred ms now	04:10
SDuensin	That's better. :-)	04:11
SDuensin	Who are you using? Mine's a Verizon ExpressCard adapter.	04:11
@preaction	SprintPCS Phone as Modem with a Samsung Upstage	04:12
@preaction	gotta go, i think my gf just called	04:12
SDuensin	See ya!	04:12
-!- preaction [n=doug@h46095ef8.area4.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		04:34
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-228-23.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		05:27
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-228-23.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		06:08
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		07:47
-!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ		07:47
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:40
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		09:46
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		09:47
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:48
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		10:06
-!- wgGuest50 [n=wgGuest5@a82-93-238-59.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		10:42
-!- wgGuest50 [n=wgGuest5@a82-93-238-59.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit []		11:07
-!- wgGuest53 [n=wgGuest5@a82-93-238-59.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		11:08
-!- dodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		11:17
-!- wgGuest53 [n=wgGuest5@a82-93-238-59.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit []		11:18
-!- dodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit ["[BX] Time to make the donuts"]		11:25
-!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@a82-93-238-59.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		11:31
-!- AMH_Mari [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		12:15
-!- xootom [n=tom@195.224.29.66] has joined #webgui		12:50
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Leaving"]		12:56
xootom	hi all, does anyone know why when i create groups of groups, the Admins group keeps appearing within groups?	13:47
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		14:10
AMH_henry	@xootom: i think admin should get rights from all groups.	14:12
xootom	Just looks a bit odd as it's a child of every single group	14:13
AMH_henry	well, if a group A is within group B then group A inherits all rights from group B. it looks a bit odd for admins but at least admins will always have all right	14:15
AMH_henry	rights	14:15
xootom	I see what you mean	14:21
xootom	Just looks confusing when you see it as a tree structure (manage groups in this group) and everything has Admins in it	14:22
AMH_henry	yes, it look me a while before i got it heheh	14:23
xootom	Can I run a grouping scenario past you and see if you think it's the best approach?	14:23
AMH_henry	i'm not an expert on it, but sure I can give it a try	14:25
xootom	Thanks! I'm using groups to represent schools. So I have a group for each school. I want to group them into partnerships, as the schools work together in partnerships, so I have created a partnerships group, which contains each partnership group, which contains the schools. Now I want to be able to group them into geographical areas (counties).. should I add a group for each county, and add the schools into each county? Or is there a better way of making the sc	14:28
xootom	I'm not sure how easily it will be manageable though	14:28
xootom	Plus I have students in each school, so they'll join the school group. Then there are teachers, so they will be in the school group too but also in a teachers group, so they can access reports. But then will I need a separate group for teachers in each school, i.e. two groups for every school, if I want teachers in a school to be able to edit their own set of pages?	14:29
-!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@wlan-145-94-247-148.wlan.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		14:43
AMH_henry	this is a rather complicated problem... to begin with your last question. I would create a teachers group for each school and make all teaches members of it. Also create a students group for each school. And then a school group. A school group will be member of both teacher and student group.	14:45
AMH_henry	this way if you for example want pages editable by every one in a school then you can you the school group. If you only want access for student then you student group.	14:46
MrHairgreas1	don't you mean you'll make the teachers and student groups memeber of a school group in stead of the opposite	14:46
AMH_henry	@MrHairgreas1: to my understanding it works the opposite way. If group A is in group B, then group A inherits all rights from group B.	14:47
MrHairgreas1	yeah	14:48
MrHairgreas1	that's correct	14:48
MrHairgreas1	maybe i shouldn't respond to questions i haven't heard	14:49
MrHairgreas1	but in most cases it's logical to put the teachers and student group in a school group	14:50
MrHairgreas1	that also follows the normal hierarchy	14:50
AMH_henry	yeah, that's more logical indeed, but unfornately webgui has choosen differently	14:50
MrHairgreas1	as far as i know webgui hasn't	14:51
AMH_henry	of course it depends on how you makes use of those groups	14:52
MrHairgreas1	of course	14:54
AMH_henry	@xootom: the same for partnerships. each partnership can be member of schools. do you get the idea?	15:02
MrHairgreas1	hmm	15:07
MrHairgreas1	i think you're still explaining it upside down	15:07
MrHairgreas1	if you have partnership group	15:07
MrHairgreas1	which should contain the schools forming a partnership	15:08
MrHairgreas1	you should make the schoolgroups a member of that specific partnership group	15:08
MrHairgreas1	if you make a partnership group a member of a schoolgroup...	15:08
MrHairgreas1	the school won't be in that partnership	15:08
MrHairgreas1	however the partnership will be in that schoolgroup	15:09
MrHairgreas1	but	15:09
MrHairgreas1	that doesn't make sense b/c the partnership group will be empty	15:09
MrHairgreas1	in the latter case	15:09
xootom	yeah mrhairgreas1 that all makes sense	15:14
MrHairgreas1	just view the groups in groups thing as a tree	15:15
MrHairgreas1	lower levels have the privileges of higher levels	15:16
MrHairgreas1	but not the other way around	15:16
xootom	i think i need to have lots of groups in my system to see how it works	15:17
MrHairgreas1	ah	15:17
xootom	if you have thousands of groups set up, do you still get them all in the same long list where you choose to add them to another group?	15:17
MrHairgreas1	the famous "there's only one way to find out how it works" approach	15:17
MrHairgreas1	dunno	15:18
MrHairgreas1	never used that many groups before	15:18
AMH_henry	@MarHairgreas1: i think you are right if you reasons that way.	15:18
MrHairgreas1	nor did i ever do very complex groupings	15:18
MrHairgreas1	rize can prolly answer that question	15:19
MrHairgreas1	rizen*	15:19
MrHairgreas1	it might be beneficial to write your own group management interface for that particular purpose though	15:19
MrHairgreas1	and make it more natural to do the kind of groupings you want to do	15:19
MrHairgreas1	have it use the Group API in the back	15:20
xootom	yeah you're probably right	15:20
MrHairgreas1	it'll happily coexist with the default group manager	15:20
xootom	going back to my original scenario, if there is a separate group for teachers in a school and students in a school, both within the school group, will the teacher be able to get reports out about the students? as they're in a different branch	15:23
xootom	or should the teacher be under the students	15:23
xootom	that might work then i just find the parent group..	15:23
MrHairgreas1	what do you mean by getting reports out?	15:23
MrHairgreas1	teachers should never be below students	15:24
MrHairgreas1	that would be very bad for preserving order in the classroom =)	15:24
AMH_henry	@xootom: you can always create a separate reports group	15:24
xootom	it's probably getting over complicated for what I'm trying to set up. example is there are 1000 schools set up, each has say 100 students and 2 teachers with access. I have say 5 different reports, for example report 1 could be a score against each student. Now, I need this report to be available to all teachers in all schools, but it would show the teacher only the scores of the students in their own school	15:26
xootom	that sums up what I'm trying to achieve (the reports in question are currently sql reports)	15:26
xootom	on top of that, each school can have its own set of pages, the teachers of that school would have editing rights (that's where the group security element comes in)	15:27
MrHairgreas1	so set the view group of that sqlreport to the "Teachers of school X" group	15:27
MrHairgreas1	for the school pages	15:28
MrHairgreas1	set the privs as follows	15:28
xootom	yeah but then i'd have to create the 5 reports 1000 times for each school wouldn't i?	15:28
MrHairgreas1	view: school X group (teachers and students are in it)	15:28
MrHairgreas1	edit: "teachers of school x" group	15:28
MrHairgreas1	you'll have to do that anyway i guess	15:29
xootom	yeah that's fine	15:29
xootom	just how to have one set of reports, not having to maintain 1000 versions	15:29
MrHairgreas1	i'm not sure you can do that with just an sql report	15:30
MrHairgreas1	it depends on how the scores are stored i guess	15:31
xootom	essentially a table with userId against scores	15:31
MrHairgreas1	hmm	15:32
xootom	so i can query the webgui database groupings to find all the users in a group, and find all the scores for those users	15:32
xootom	but if the teachers and students are in different groups	15:32
xootom	hmm might just need a more complex query to join it all together	15:32
MrHairgreas1	what you could do it	15:32
MrHairgreas1	is*	15:32
MrHairgreas1	figure out in which school group the teacher is	15:32
MrHairgreas1	and then get all users in the groups of that group	15:33
MrHairgreas1	in that case you'll get the uids	15:33
xootom	yeah i wonder if i could write a macro to do that	15:33
MrHairgreas1	of both teachers and students for a school	15:33
MrHairgreas1	for the report the teacher being in there don't matter	15:34
MrHairgreas1	b/c they don't have score in that table anyway	15:34
MrHairgreas1	you could write a macro	15:34
MrHairgreas1	but it could potentiall give you a long list of results	15:34
MrHairgreas1	what you could also try to do is create a VIEW	15:34
MrHairgreas1	containing student coupled to teachers or something like that	15:35
MrHairgreas1	and use that in your query	15:35
MrHairgreas1	just giving options	15:35
xootom	ahhh yeah	15:35
MrHairgreas1	dunno how weel it would work	15:35
xootom	arr got to go for a bit thanks for all your help :)	15:36
MrHairgreas1	np	15:36
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@216.sub-75-206-213.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI		15:43
AMH_bob	Goodmorning!	15:50
MrHairgreas1	hi	15:51
SDuensin	Hey AMH_bob & MrHairgreas1	15:51
-!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@wlan-145-94-247-148.wlan.tudelft.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		16:02
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@wlan-145-94-247-148.wlan.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		16:02
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		16:02
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:14
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		17:14
-!- sno [n=sno@adsl-76-226-124-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #WebGUI		17:22
-!- metaperl_ [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		17:24
-!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@a82-93-238-59.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		17:29
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		17:41
-!- metaperl_ is now known as metaperl		17:41
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui		17:48
elnino	hello - quick question. What pm module and method do I use to get the current page's viewable group?	17:48
AMH_henry	@elnino: you mean something like $asset->get('groupIdView')?	17:56
nuba	/na	17:58
nuba	oops	17:58
-!- SDuensin is now known as LordKelvin		18:01
-!- LordKelvin is now known as SDuensin		18:06
elnino	Im thinking that will do it. How would I get the current page I'm on?	18:07
AMH_henry	if you have the current asset you can test if it's a PageLayout. If not, then try its parent.	18:09
-!- AMH_Mari [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:11
elnino	oh. ?? I'm coding my own Auth mod, and simply copied webui's a rewrote the login form, so I don't think I have the current asset either.	18:12
AMH_henry	you can get it by $session->asset	18:14
-!- preaction [n=doug@000-366-959.area4.spcsdns.net] has joined #webgui		18:16
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		18:16
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:17
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:19
-!- xootom [n=tom@195.224.29.66] has quit ["Leaving."]		18:23
-!- xootom [n=tom@195.224.29.66] has joined #webgui		18:24
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		18:27
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		18:32
-!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ		18:32
xootom	has anyone got an example of the GroupAdd macro working? its third parameter is a template, when is this displayed?	18:37
@preaction	the template is used to display the macro itself	18:38
xootom	i'll experiment	18:39
@preaction	apparently all the GroupAdd macro does is display a link for the user to add itself to a group if the group is set to "autoAdd" and the user is not yet part of that group	18:40
xootom	how come the first parameter is groupname, not groupid? there can be multiple groups with the same name, it's not a key field is it?	18:41
+MrHairgrease	no	18:42
+MrHairgrease	groupid is the only valid identifier	18:42
+MrHairgrease	at least the one that won't break	18:42
elnino	AMH_henry: Thanks for your help! I'll go try it now. bye.	18:42
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		18:43
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		18:49
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@wlan-145-94-247-148.wlan.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []		18:52
xootom	trying the GroupAdd macro out, it seems to work with groups that don't have spaces in the name. it still showed after i'd joined the group though, which i don't think it should as the conditions for its display are that you're not a member already.	18:55
xootom	should groups not have spaces in their names? and how do i identify other groups with the same name	18:55
@rizen	why do you have multiple groups with the same name?	18:56
@rizen	how would you ever tell them apart	18:56
@rizen	you shouldn't do that	18:56
xootom	i just tried it, i probably wouldn't choose to do that, but if I create a duplicate it doesn't say i can't	18:57
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui		18:58
@rizen	i suppose we should protect users from themselves	18:58
@rizen	report it as a bug	18:58
xootom	i suppose in my previous example, each school is a group and could contain a sub-group of "students" and "teachers", there would then be lots of different groups with the same name.. I thought it was only a label, but with GroupAdd it's being used as an identifier	18:58
elnino	hello. quick question. How do I de-encode a value that is stored in a cookie? the string has a space and when I display it on the webpage, a plus sign is displayed.	18:59
@rizen	listen to what you are saying	18:59
@rizen	so if you go into the groups manager	18:59
@rizen	and you have 10,000 groups called "Students"	18:59
@rizen	how wouuld you ever tell them apart?	18:59
@preaction	elnino, cookies are stored urlencoded	18:59
xootom	oh i know, i wouldn't do that because the groups aren't displayed in a tree, it's not easy to see the structure	19:00
@rizen	instead your groups should be named "Students of School X"	19:00
@preaction	elnino, use URI::Escape; uri_unescape(cookie string) # iirc	19:00
elnino	perfect thanks!	19:00
xootom	Yeah but they are limited to only 20 odd characters, i can't even fit in my test schools names without the students of school bit	19:00
@rizen	they aren't stored in a tree simply because they aren't inherently hierarchical	19:01
@rizen	20 characters/	19:01
@rizen	?	19:01
elnino	preaction: thanks for your help! bye.	19:01
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit]		19:01
xootom	"Warmley Park Special Needs Sch"	19:01
xootom	then it chops off	19:01
-!- metaperl_ [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		19:01
@rizen	30 characters according to the DB, but that should be increased	19:01
@rizen	feel free to report that as a bug too	19:02
xootom	yeah yes you're right 30	19:02
@rizen	that should be increased to 255 characters	19:02
@rizen	well maybe not that long	19:03
@rizen	that's a sentence	19:03
xootom	lol	19:03
xootom	the problem if you do have duplicate group names - is that the problem, that it lets you create duplicate group names, as they are supposed to be unique identifiers... or should it be that groupadd takes the groupId as the parameter	19:06
xootom	and groupadd doesn't seem to work if there are spaces in the group name	19:07
@preaction	are you quoting the group name?	19:08
xootom	yeah	19:08
xootom	and should it disappear once i've joined the group	19:08
@preaction	yes	19:08
xootom	so i guess i could replace it with groupdel so they can leave again	19:08
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		19:13
-!- metaperl_ is now known as metaperl		19:13
xootom	just a random question, is the current version "7.4.0 beta", that will then turn into "7.4.0 (stable)" or will it go 7.4.0 beta to 7.4.1?	19:16
@preaction	7.4.0 beta will go to 7.4.1	19:17
xootom	ok thanks	19:17
-!- xootom [n=tom@195.224.29.66] has quit ["Leaving."]		20:03
@rizen	preaction, what's the difference between ubuntu 6 and 7	20:13
@rizen	is 7 a bleeding edge release?	20:13
@preaction	no, all their releases are 6-month timespans	20:13
@preaction	feature freeze at 5 months	20:14
@preaction	so basically all the software is updated every 6 months	20:14
@rizen	but it says that 6.06 is supported until 2011 but 7.04 is only supported until 2008	20:14
@preaction	right, 6.06 was an "LTS" release, supported for 5 years	20:14
@rizen	ok, so if i'm going to build a WRE for Ubunut, then 6.06 would be the version to choose, right?	20:15
@preaction	if, for example, you didn't want to upgrade the entire system all tie time	20:15
@preaction	i don't know, i use ubuntu on the desktop, and i don't know what ubuntu server users do	20:15
@preaction	i'd say the latest stable	20:15
@preaction	and if necessary they can backport	20:16
@rizen	methinks that anybody really serving stuff is going to want long term support	20:16
@preaction	most likely, and there will always be community builds	20:17
nuba	rizen: got a couple of minutes?	20:27
nuba	well just reply when you get around, anyway..	20:28
nuba	im building a photo gallery using userDefinied{1,2} to store lat and long	20:29
nuba	i've modified the rss template to include them, and modified the description to get output like this feed "http://api.flickr.com/services/feeds/groups_pool.gne?id=322338@N20&format=rss_200&georss=1"	20:30
nuba	which then allows me to render them in the googlemaps asset easily	20:30
nuba	now I wonder if there could be a "location" form gadget for webgui	20:31
nuba	so that you could point/click or search for a location,	20:32
nuba	in this case, this is a photo gallery	20:32
nuba	but I can see how you could benefit from being able to assign location attributes to random things inside webgui	20:33
@preaction	Events perhaps?	20:34
nuba	like, imagine a wiki page with knowledge related to a location	20:34
nuba	yeah, events could be nice. if you can output rss from the events, then you could render that in the googlemaps asset as well	20:35
nuba	(i havent really looked at the events asset yet)	20:35
@preaction	there are some complicated parts, but those should be abstracted out in the future	20:36
nuba	the "location form gadget" would be something like picasa's "Photo Location	20:38
nuba	�2007 Google - Map data �2007 NAVTEQ. - Terms of Use	20:38
nuba	"	20:38
nuba	box	20:38
nuba	ugh	20:38
sno	I just built WRE 0.7.2 on Ubuntu server	20:38
nuba	like the one at the bottom-right corner here: http://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.smilak/BestOfAmericaSGrandCircle/photo#4974034093674070034	20:38
sno	I used 6.06 because it was best supported by VMWare	20:38
sno	There were some additional perl modules necessary to get Spectre operational.	20:40
sno	Outside the WRE package.	20:40
sno	mod_perl also had some dependancies not provided.	20:41
nuba	sno: you can add the additional steps you had to perform to the wiki, if you took notes during the setup	20:41
nuba	that may help someone in the future	20:41
nuba	or you, in case you lose your notes and have to do it again ;)	20:41
sno	If my current project is delayed significantly, I can provide documentation for the whole Ubuntu server 6.06 install process.	20:42
sno	The project comes first though.	20:42
nuba	cool	20:42
sno	The base Ubuntu Server install fails to includes some necessary components as well.	20:43
sno	VMWare is very cool. I've been using it since v4.2	20:44
sno	I think Plainblack should create VMWare appliances for WebGUI	20:44
sno	Lots of organizations have built server instances to plug and play.	20:45
sno	I know VMWare is not Open Source, but it is still a great resource. And the VMWare server engine is free distribution.	20:46
-!- wgGuest87 [n=wgGuest8@72.85.248.223] has joined #webgui		20:50
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		20:58
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		21:03
@rizen	nuba, i don't see any reason not to have a location form control	21:03
@rizen	sno, the problem with that is keeping it up to date	21:04
@rizen	i haven't yet found a way to automate the build process	21:04
@rizen	in addition, the distribution package will be enormous	21:04
@rizen	regardless, it is on my radar and if the means to automate the build process presents itself, i probably will do it at some point	21:05
sno	I see it as two problems. Establishing a baseline install, and then a separate upgrade solution.	21:11
sno	I've found that getting it going was the hardest part.	21:11
sno	More people would try WebGUI if they didn't have to abort the installation due to technical problems.	21:13
sno	I'm a competent package installer and WebGUI is one of the hardest installs I've ever done.	21:14
@rizen	i agree that it's difficult to do, but that's what the WRE is all about..admittedly it's not quite there yet, but it's getting closer with each release	21:15
sno	WRE 0.7.2 was a 24 hour install for me. And I've had practice with older versions.	21:16
@rizen	yeah, but you compiled it from scratch rather than using a binary	21:16
@rizen	when i'm using binaries i can install the WRE and WebGUI in under 15 minutes	21:16
sno	I tried that and dropped it. Iinstead whent the virtual machine routel	21:17
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving."]		21:17
sno	Way too many problems with SUSE 10.2	21:17
sno	I VM'd Ubuntu 6.06 with WRE 0.7.2 and that took the whole day. Admittedly, some of the problem was because I used Ubuntu server instead of workstation.	21:18
@rizen	but there again there isn't a binary...at least not one created by us	21:19
sno	Ubuntu server leaves some packages out that WebGUI relies on.	21:19
@rizen	in addition, that's the reason that the WRE is still at a 0.x release level	21:19
sno	WRE 0.7.2 ubuntu 6.06 isn't a binary?	21:19
@rizen	we know it's not perfect yet	21:19
@rizen	i said there isn't one created by us	21:20
sno	Yep, I understand.	21:20
sno	Ah, then sourceforge has a contributed one?	21:20
@rizen	the only binaries we create right now are RHEL, OSX, and Windows	21:20
@rizen	yes	21:20
sno	I see.	21:20
@rizen	starting with WRE 0.8.0 we'll be putting out Ubuntu and FreeBSD as well	21:20
sno	I'm just thinking that a VM Server that is plug in and play would be a great baseline system for someone to get the feel of WebGUI. Updating processes would come afterwards.	21:22
sno	I'm unsure what Xen brings to this	21:22
@rizen	and as the owner of a company who want's to put his best foot forward, if it comes from us, I want it to have the latest version, and that means an automated build process	21:22
sno	Sure. I understand that too.	21:23
sno	That doesn't necessarily rule out Way-point type of distributions.	21:23
sno	Someone isn't going to want to toss their entire operational web site because they want to download the latest prebuilt server.	21:24
sno	Of course, I'm just talking. Not insisting here.	21:24
sno	I'm interested in good things too.	21:25
sno	Anyway, my thought was that having known way-point VM'd server distributions presents a production base-line for offering enhancements to the latest version.	21:27
sno	(to get to the latest version)	21:28
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		21:29
sno	A VM'd server may not be the best way to handle this for all time. I'm just thinking of the first-timer. If someone can get WebGUI operational with a minimum of effort, they might decide it fits their production environment faster.	21:30
sno	Then they would go to a custom installation.	21:30
sno	More stable units out there could mean more support requests.	21:31
nuba	there was some talk of a webgui community appliance once, long ago	21:33
nuba	by then vmware was running a community appliance contest	21:33
sno	If you have VMWare Workstation (like I do) an appliance can be built. I built a VM for my development work this week. It's not suitable for a public appliance, but it can be done with a little more effore.	21:34
sno	effort.	21:34
sno	Ideally, it would not be a WRE install on top of a Linux distribution, but an integrated solution.	21:35
nuba	well, there are appliances available for most of the linuxes already	21:36
nuba	i think the fastest way for a webgui appliance	21:36
nuba	would be downloading one of those for which there's a binary wre available	21:36
nuba	then get the rig going	21:36
sno	Doesn't a WRE binary install supplant some installed components, providing it's own environment?	21:38
nuba	i think so, i had to install some stuff inside a freebsd jail to compile it,	21:39
sno	It is certainly plausible to build a VM server with WRE binary installation because I've done it. However, a baseline project should probably be fully integrated with the host opsys.	21:39
nuba	then inside other jails i only had to copy the /data/wre to get it working	21:39
nuba	define: fully integrated with the host opsys	21:40
sno	When I install WRE, I get two full perl instances on my filesystem. One for the host, and one for WebGUI.	21:41
sno	The host system having already installed one of them.	21:41
sno	Same for Apache, etc.	21:41
nuba	well, remove the OS's apache if you want	21:42
nuba	wouldn't recommend doing that with perl	21:42
sno	A source install would be better, but is a slow and bumpy process.	21:42
nuba	some system scripts could go borke	21:42
sno	Indeed.	21:42
sno	If a select few base opsys were chosen, and a WebGUI source deployment applied to it. That would be the basis for an integrated WebGUI appliance.	21:43
nuba	I wouldn't worry about integrating with the OS's further than the crontab :)	21:43
nuba	isnt the goal of what you're proposing just for webgui to get the foot in the doro?	21:44
nuba	door*	21:44
nuba	with this appliance?	21:44
sno	Clean, tight, compact (or as compact as possible).	21:44
nuba	let the masses try webgui..	21:44
sno	That is an argument for an appliance.	21:44
sno	I'm just thinking about how the appliance could/should be deployed.	21:44
nuba	actually i think the public available demo addresses that nicely	21:45
sno	But that is not permanent.	21:45
nuba	then the vmware appliace would come handy	21:45
sno	Handing someone an appliance means they have a working environment for all time.	21:45
sno	Right.	21:45
nuba	still, one thing is building a 'check this shit out' appliance,	21:46
sno	rizen is concerned about providing the latest version at all times.	21:46
nuba	another thing is a finely tuned custum built webgui appliance for production deployment	21:46
sno	Right.	21:46
sno	But there is no reason that a properly configured appliance can not serve both.	21:47
nuba	not to mention requirements for deployment will be different	21:47
nuba	then there's clustering...	21:47
nuba	and so on..	21:47
sno	And thus support contracts kick in.	21:47
nuba	things get messy real quickly :)	21:47
sno	and the revenue stream jumps.	21:47
sno	Get them in the door, then sell them something.	21:48
sno	I'm pretty sure WebGUI is built on that model.	21:49
sno	This just takes it that one step further. Easy installation.	21:49
sno	All the mumbo-jumbo about a qualified appliance is really a discussion about what you want your in-the-door product to act like.	21:50
sno	I much prefer a baseline that can be added to like legos.	21:50
sno	And then when you outgrow your current set-up, well Plainblack has solutions for you.	21:51
sno	Friendly, qualified technicians.	21:51
sno	Oh, and there's the hosting...	21:51
sno	Like to chat more, but time to go.	21:52
nuba	ok	21:53
nuba	you should check plainblack's hosting plans etc	21:53
nuba	i think they're throwing the net and catching the fish earlier than you think	21:54
nuba	see the demo, like it ? signup for the cheaper hosting plan.. then grow from there.	21:55
nuba	anyway, check with rizen, i just hang here :)	22:00
xootom	got a very quick question, i'm just on my way out :) if i have lots of groups, how are they presented in say the security tab, would hundreds be listed in the 'edit' drop down still?	22:21
@rizen	yes, although that is getting changed to a selection from control the same as user is in an upcoming 7.4.x release	22:22
@preaction	if they're "Show In Forms", yes	22:23
@preaction	rizen, the ajax search thing?	22:24
@rizen	it's not ajax, it's just a popup window that lets you search users	22:24
@preaction	ah	22:24
@rizen	it could be ajax, it just isn't	22:25
xootom	cool thanks	22:25
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving."]		22:25
nuba	interesting: http://perlsurvey.org/	22:49
-!- wgGuest87 [n=wgGuest8@72.85.248.223] has quit []		22:53
-!- perlbot [n=perlbot@lv.pm.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		23:04
-!- perlbot [n=perlbot@lv.pm.org] has joined #webgui		23:04
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		23:26
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@216.sub-75-206-213.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		23:54
--- Day changed Fri Aug 03 2007
-!- sbaur [n=sbaur@130.157.145.37] has joined #webgui		00:12
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@000-371-565.area4.spcsdns.net] has joined #webgui		00:27
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction_] by ChanServ		00:27
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@000-371-565.area4.spcsdns.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded]		00:27
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@000-371-565.area4.spcsdns.net] has joined #webgui		00:28
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction_] by ChanServ		00:28
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@000-371-565.area4.spcsdns.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded]		00:29
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@000-371-565.area4.spcsdns.net] has joined #webgui		00:29
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction_] by ChanServ		00:29
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@000-371-565.area4.spcsdns.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded]		00:30
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@000-371-565.area4.spcsdns.net] has joined #webgui		00:31
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction_] by ChanServ		00:31
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@000-371-565.area4.spcsdns.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded]		00:32
nuba	in the ./Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm, sub getRssItems, we have inside the hashrefs pushed to @{$attachmentLoop}, the following: attachment.url, attachment.path, attachment_thumbnail, attachment.length. Why the _ on attachment_thumbnail ?	00:34
@rizen	because it was created after the new best practices policy change	00:36
@rizen	template variables can't have . in them anymore	00:36
@rizen	and starting with 7.5 (probably) all existing template variables will automatically be converted to use _ instead of .	00:36
nuba	ok	00:36
nuba	was the new policy published somewhere ?	00:37
@rizen	yes, the dev mailing list and the wiki	00:37
nuba	i thought _ would apply to TT templates only	00:37
@rizen	back in january	00:37
nuba	ok. thx	00:37
@rizen	it was part of my new years resolution	00:38
nuba	i didnt see it, checking out now..	00:38
@rizen	it's also been talked about on IRC in the months since then, but you may not have been on while we talked about it	00:38
-!- preaction [n=doug@000-366-959.area4.spcsdns.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		00:40
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@000-371-565.area4.spcsdns.net] has joined #webgui		00:44
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction_] by ChanServ		00:44
nuba	probably	00:45
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@000-371-565.area4.spcsdns.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded]		00:45
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		01:04
nuba	rizen: regarding the mini-beta thing, is there a "asset style guide" or "feature guide" anywhere ?	01:15
nuba	like, "if possible, export table-data as CSV or etc"	01:16
@rizen	what mini beta thing?	01:16
nuba	"allow for importing and/or exporting in formats usually adopted when dealing with such type of data"	01:16
nuba	mini-beta thread on dev list from July 7 2007	01:17
@rizen	url?	01:17
@rizen	sorry, i don't remember word for word everything that is said on there	01:17
nuba	well you're complaining about the low quality of the interface or feature set of some assets	01:18
nuba	low usability	01:18
@rizen	do you have a url or not?	01:18
nuba	badly designed interface etc.	01:18
@rizen	i'll take that as no	01:18
nuba	http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/mini-beta#O8Qve3OXnIvwnp2GIUFxmQ	01:18
nuba	sorry I thought first you were asking if I wanted a URL to such a interface/feature guide	01:19
@rizen	ok	01:19
@rizen	what do you mean by feature guide?	01:19
nuba	maybe you or someone should write a small guide of 'feature patterns'	01:19
nuba	like "if you asset has child assets, provide means to list, search, edit, add, remove them"	01:20
@rizen	no there isn't such a thing	01:20
nuba	"when applicable or recommended, block the addition of child assets to your child"	01:20
nuba	etc.	01:21
@rizen	i really only have one statement in that regard: "Leave nothing unfinished. Take everything to it's logical conclusion."	01:21
@rizen	ok that's two statements	01:21
@rizen	but they mean the same	01:21
nuba	ok	01:22
@rizen	you're probably right that at some point someone should write such a document	01:22
@rizen	but i'm afraid i'm not that guy	01:22
nuba	well the thing is what you call "unfinished business" could be "good enough" for other people, thats when having such guide would be handy	01:23
@rizen	i understand why it would be useful	01:23
nuba	so it could be called a JT-compliant asset	01:23
@rizen	i'm just not the guy to write ite	01:23
nuba	k	01:24
nuba	i may write, or help write one, eventually	01:24
nuba	right now im mostly learning the webgui way by inspecting other people's code and the api	01:25
@rizen	currently there's only one file in all of webgui 7.4 that follows the best practices to the letter	01:27
@rizen	lib/WebGUI/Keywords.pm	01:27
@rizen	we adopted the Perl Best Practices back in January, but it's going to take a long time before we can bring the entire codebase up to that standard	01:28
nuba	k	01:29
nuba	this Keywords.pm looks interesting, im updating to 7.4.1 to see it working	01:39
nuba	sounds like what I had in mind earlier today, re: mapping random assets inside webgui	01:39
@rizen	it's basically what other sites call "tags"	01:40
nuba	im failiar with tags and tagclouds	01:40
@rizen	but we already have HTML tags, template tags, and version tags	01:40
nuba	i mean the implementation	01:40
@rizen	so i didn't want to confuse the situation	01:40
@rizen	anymore than it already is	01:40
nuba	i mean a sitewide table	01:40
@rizen	well this API is capable of being applied to all assets	01:41
nuba	i thought of a locations table, with assetId, lat, long	01:41
@rizen	i just ran out of time	01:41
@rizen	so currently it's only for the wiki	01:41
nuba	yeah thats what I saw there	01:41
nuba	nice	01:41
@rizen	yeah, i think you'd need something different for the locations, but it would be a similar api	01:42
nuba	btw a locator form gadget would call for a sitewide googlemaps key	01:42
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit ["Quit"]		01:42
nuba	so for it to work the site admin would have to go and fetch a api key	01:42
nuba	i suppose you're ok with that reqiurement	01:42
nuba	in the understanding that you'd be interesting in adding such gadget to the core	01:42
nuba	oops, interested*	01:43
@rizen	hmmm...i hadn't considered that	01:43
nuba	i thought "it would be interesting" but changed mind in the middle of it :)	01:43
@rizen	i guess it would be ok as long as people didn't have to use the key unless they wanted to use the asset that uses it	01:43
nuba	well, i can visualize that being like a WebGUI::Form::Location thing	01:44
nuba	is that how you think of it too?	01:44
nuba	or what?	01:44
@rizen	the form yes	01:45
@rizen	but the site wide google key...i don't want people to have to register for google keys just so they can create a webgui site	01:45
@rizen	so this location form control has to automatically disable itself	01:45
@rizen	unless the user has the key	01:46
nuba	ok. so if (nokey) { graceously poof }	01:46
@rizen	or if not disabled, it needs to downgrade gracefully to a simple lat/long field	01:46
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #webgui []		01:47
nuba	ok	01:47
-!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway		01:48
nuba	rizen: on the gotcha.txt, line 47, s/tempalates/templates/	01:57
nuba	also check this string	02:14
nuba	[root@frozen tools]# head -200 /data/WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt	02:14
nuba	and some repeated line	02:14
nuba	on http://www.plainblack.com/getwebgui/advisories/webgui-7_4_0-beta-released	02:14
nuba	lines*	02:15
-!- sbaur [n=sbaur@130.157.145.37] has quit []		02:36
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		03:13
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythia1] by ChanServ		03:13
+crythia1	no public announcement on 7.4.1?	03:13
-!- crythia1 changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.1 \| WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc .:. Feel free to ask questions on here - but make sure you stick around long enough for us to answer! :)		03:13
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		04:39
-!- crythia1 is now known as crythias		04:59
-!- sno [n=sno@adsl-76-226-124-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		05:30
-!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		08:48
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:35
-!- rizenisaway [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		09:35
-!- rizenisaway [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		09:57
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		10:33
Radix-europe	Mornin'	10:51
AMH_henry	morning :)	10:52
Radix-europe	:)	10:53
-!- xootom [n=tom@195.224.29.66] has joined #webgui		12:21
xootom	i'm struggling with my groupings problem still, if anyone has a moment.. i mentioned yesterday about having a group for every school, and within this, a group for students of the school and teachers of the school. anyone can join the students group, but access to the teachers group is controlled. if i'm logged on as a teacher, how can i get a list of students of the school? i might be in lots of different groups, so how do i identify which group is a school and	14:09
-!- AMH_Mari [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		14:13
AMH_henry	@xootom: a group has a description field. You could fill that field with something that identify a school uniquely and search for it	14:17
xootom	ahh you're right, that would help. but how do i know which school i'm in as a teacher, if i get a list of my groups it'll contain all sorts including forum subscriptions, etc etc	14:18
AMH_henry	teachers also belong to a teachers group, right? You can use the description field in that group	14:19
xootom	true, maybe all the teachers of school x and teachers of school y groups should sit under a teachers group. then i just find which group they are in which is a child of the teachers group. then i take the description which is the school name, and find the group that is students of that name	14:23
xootom	not sure if its open to abuse though using descriptions like that, would forum post subscriptions contain school names or anything	14:24
xootom	perhaps it would be easier without a students group, they are just in the school group	14:27
xootom	yes that might work, a group of schools containing all the schools, a group of teachers containing a teacher group for every school, then i can find the teacher group for a teacher and using the matching description find the non-teacher school group	14:28
AMH_henry	who is responsible for adding students and teachers?	14:30
xootom	self registering students can add themselves to a school, some students will be imported from csv files and added to the school. teachers will all be manually added to their school's teacher group	14:31
Radix-europe	xootoo - we manage our groups using sql lookups. Every user has an account, but they don't belong to any groups by default. Instead we use sql lookups to determine group membership - so we have a table in mysql that equates to each user and simply a number of rows for each group with a boolean flag in each. Its simple but works a treat for us.	14:32
xootom	do you need to create them all as webgui groups first?	14:33
Radix-europe	yes	14:33
xootom	brb	14:33
AMH_henry	@xootom: another idea. Instead of using the description field, you could use AssetId as identification. Say each school has a unique number. All Students groups get assetId's like STUDENT<schoolID> (padding to 22 char. long) and all teachers group gets assetId's like TEACHER<schoolId>. This way you can easily find matching groups. It's a bit of an hack, but it's faster than using description field.	14:40
-!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		15:04
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@240.sub-75-205-112.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI		15:45
xootom	@amh_henry: thanks, what are assetids normally used for?	15:55
AMH_henry	@xootom: assetId are the unique identifiers for an asset. btw, i meant group id	15:56
xootom	ahh that's a good idea, i was thinking of having the school group's id the same as the school's id in our crm system, i could prefix it with s_ or t_ or something	15:59
xootom	yeah if i precede it with teacher_ i can search for the group starting "teacher_" that the user is in to get the school's id	16:01
xootom	thanks for your help :)	16:01
AMH_henry	you're welcome :)	16:05
AMH_henry	Wow! Your version: You are using 7.4.0-beta and 7.4.1-beta is available.	16:10
-!- rizenisaway [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		16:20
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Leaving"]		16:20
xootom	yeah i upgraded yesterday, these versions are coming out swiftly! got to make sure you don't miss one or the upgrade fails though	16:20
xootom	amh_henry: are groupids max 22 characters?	16:29
MrHairgreas1	yes	16:29
MrHairgreas1	all guids are 22 chracters	16:29
MrHairgreas1	please note that guids MUST be unique	16:30
MrHairgreas1	so only generate them by yourself if you know what you are doing	16:31
-!- MrHairgreas1 is now known as MrHairgrease		16:31
xootom	sugar crm ids have 36 chars, maybe i'd be better using webgui to generate groups with random guids, and save those into the sugar db instead, or have another linking table	16:31
xootom	hmm i've got a groupid 3, admins and a userid also with 3, is that bad?	16:37
AMH_henry	that's default	16:39
AMH_henry	groupid and userid are separate things	16:40
xootom	ok so within a class of asset they must be unique	16:41
AMH_henry	hmm... assets, groups and users are different entities. They all have their own unique id.	16:43
MrHairgrease	assets have an owner	16:47
MrHairgrease	which is a userID	16:47
MrHairgrease	and a group toe edit and a group to view	16:47
MrHairgrease	which are both groupId's	16:47
-!- danny_mk1 [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		16:52
-!- danny_mk1 is now known as danny_mk		16:53
danny_mk	Good morning	16:53
MrHairgrease	hi	16:53
danny_mk	I know about the Forms	16:53
danny_mk	however, I was wondering if anyone had a macro that would build a date picker field with a popup calendar	16:54
danny_mk	since the yui library is already available it should be pretty easy to do	16:54
MrHairgrease	as far as i know there is no such macro	16:55
MrHairgrease	but it would be trivial to make	16:55
MrHairgrease	what i don not understand however	16:55
danny_mk	well, I am writting it now, just wanted to make sure it was not already done	16:55
MrHairgrease	is what you want to do with such a macro	16:55
danny_mk	well, how do you pass n+ fields to a sql report?	16:58
danny_mk	if the user has to input these fields?	16:58
MrHairgrease	oh	16:59
MrHairgrease	i see	16:59
MrHairgrease	your putting it in a sql report template	16:59
MrHairgrease	and use the result in the query	16:59
MrHairgrease	s/result/inputted date/	16:59
danny_mk	it would be nice to have a macro that created an input tag with a popup calendar and date validation	16:59
danny_mk	no	17:00
danny_mk	picture this. I have a sql report that produces a listing of states, something like: <a href="/wgasseturl/moreinfo?id=5">Connecticut</a>	17:01
danny_mk	the moreinfo page has a sql report that shows the current state information	17:02
danny_mk	underneath that I have an article that contains an html table for fields within that state that I would like to modify	17:03
danny_mk	the article is actually a form that has an action oofo /wgasseturl/updateinfo/	17:04
danny_mk	when the contents of the modified state information get posted to updateinfo the database is updated	17:05
danny_mk	does that help?	17:05
MrHairgrease	and updateinfo is a custom asset?	17:06
danny_mk	no, I think a sql report will do the job, have not gotten there yet. Still working on the date field deal	17:08
MrHairgrease	how does updateinfo update the db then?	17:08
danny_mk	I havent gotten to that point yet. I am still working on the more info page. I think it can be done with a sql report as well.	17:09
MrHairgrease	sql reports cannot update the db	17:10
MrHairgrease	unless you state that your dblink allows that	17:10
MrHairgrease	but allowing db writes through the sql report	17:11
MrHairgrease	will almost certainly open security holes	17:11
danny_mk	I can always write a custom asset, that is not show stopper	17:11
MrHairgrease	yeah	17:12
MrHairgrease	but if you do that	17:12
MrHairgrease	you won't have to use this really complex setup	17:12
MrHairgrease	also what you might consider using is the sqlform	17:12
danny_mk	hmm... I did not think it was complex at all	17:12
MrHairgrease	or maybe even a collaboration system	17:12
MrHairgrease	if you are using articles to create input form that send data to some other page which will try to update the db without the ability to at least sanity check the data that's being put in	17:14
MrHairgrease	i think your doing stuff too complicated =)	17:14
MrHairgrease	but that's just me =)	17:14
MrHairgrease	my guess is	17:15
MrHairgrease	that what you want to do is possible using the SQLForm asset	17:15
MrHairgrease	it's for power users only	17:15
MrHairgrease	but you seem like one	17:15
MrHairgrease	so give it a try	17:16
danny_mk	you know, the save button for sqlform was disabled on my installation, I have to figure out why	17:16
danny_mk	never mind, I just figured out why :-(	17:17
MrHairgrease	it's diabled b/c you haven;t typed in a tablename yet	17:18
MrHairgrease	ok	17:18
danny_mk	anyway, it would still be nice to have a macro that generated that type of field	17:18
MrHairgrease	sure	17:18
MrHairgrease	go ahead and code it	17:19
MrHairgrease	=)	17:19
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:19
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		17:19
danny_mk	sort of like ^YUIWGDatePicker("myFieldName");	17:19
danny_mk	LOL, I was almost done with it when I asked	17:19
MrHairgrease	heh	17:20
danny_mk	I just thought to myself, "WHAT THE HELL am I DOING?"	17:20
danny_mk	LOL	17:20
danny_mk	I thought that there had to be an easier way, perhaphs someone already coded this or there is a way to do it already	17:22
xootom	is it intentional that the default group for sql reports' download user group is ad manager?	17:28
MrHairgrease	i don't think so	17:28
MrHairgrease	my guess is	17:28
MrHairgrease	that ad manager has the top position of the select box	17:29
MrHairgrease	alphabetically it's ranked pretty much on top i guess	17:29
danny_mk	MrHairGrease: You know the SQLForm is still in Beta and defiinitely showing some odd behavior. I got the "save" button enabled once when I typed in the table name	17:31
danny_mk	but now it just won't enable again, no matter how many times I type in the table name	17:32
danny_mk	I commited my changes and cleared the cache just in case but no dice	17:32
MrHairgrease	oh	17:33
MrHairgrease	that's weird	17:33
MrHairgrease	you are not importing a table are you?	17:33
danny_mk	does not matter	17:33
danny_mk	if I leave it unchecked its dissabled	17:33
danny_mk	if I check it its disabled	17:33
MrHairgrease	hmm	17:34
MrHairgrease	dunno directly what's wrong then	17:34
danny_mk	have you used it before?	17:34
MrHairgrease	i wrote it	17:34
MrHairgrease	but i haven't used it lately	17:34
danny_mk	Ah, OK	17:34
MrHairgrease	still	17:34
MrHairgrease	if something going wrong t should tell you about it	17:35
MrHairgrease	in stead of just not work	17:35
MrHairgrease	=)	17:35
MrHairgrease	which browser are you on?	17:35
danny_mk	what is the trigger to get it enabled?	17:35
danny_mk	I am using Firefox 2.0.0.6	17:35
MrHairgrease	ok	17:35
MrHairgrease	which dblink are you using	17:35
danny_mk	the one to my db	17:36
MrHairgrease	not the webgui db right?	17:36
danny_mk	it works fine for my reporot	17:36
danny_mk	no, not the webgui one	17:36
MrHairgrease	ok	17:36
MrHairgrease	are you allowed to create table in that db?	17:36
danny_mk	yup	17:36
MrHairgrease	and this table name you entered	17:37
danny_mk	hmm... let me check the username for that link	17:37
MrHairgrease	does that exist already?	17:37
danny_mk	darnit, in the list of allowed keywords I did not have "create"	17:38
danny_mk	let me test it again.	17:38
MrHairgrease	that shouldn't matter afaik	17:38
danny_mk	well, I did not think it should since the object already exists in the db	17:38
MrHairgrease	something has prolly gone wrong creating the table	17:39
MrHairgrease	it's just weird that it didn't complain	17:39
danny_mk	OK, I don't want to create the table	17:39
danny_mk	the table already exists	17:39
MrHairgrease	oh	17:39
MrHairgrease	in that case	17:39
MrHairgrease	you must be very careful	17:39
MrHairgrease	the sqlform will change you table	17:40
MrHairgrease	drop primary keys	17:40
MrHairgrease	add columns	17:40
MrHairgrease	so if you need it the way it is	17:40
MrHairgrease	don't import it	17:40
danny_mk	ok, then I can't use the SQLForm	17:40
MrHairgrease	that why there is an import this table switch	17:40
danny_mk	I would like to leave these as is	17:40
MrHairgrease	it will not import tables	17:40
MrHairgrease	if you do not switch it on	17:41
MrHairgrease	but it should've told you that	17:41
MrHairgrease	ok	17:41
MrHairgrease	in that case	17:41
MrHairgrease	you'd prolly be best off wrinting an asset specifically for it	17:41
danny_mk	Ah, LOL. I am back where I started :-)	17:41
MrHairgrease	but you can combine the view and edit mode for your db	17:42
MrHairgrease	in one asset	17:42
MrHairgrease	in a safe way	17:42
MrHairgrease	not by posting stuff to sqlreports with dblinks that allow updates	17:42
MrHairgrease	heh	17:42
MrHairgrease	good way to start the weekend =)	17:42
danny_mk	question 2	17:43
danny_mk	I know there are many webmail clients out there. I currenly use OpenWebMail. I was wondering if Webgui had a native WebMail client.	17:43
MrHairgrease	no	17:44
MrHairgrease	not that i know off anyway	17:44
MrHairgrease	of*	17:44
danny_mk	OK	17:45
danny_mk	There was a discussion on single sign on that showed a link to a collaboration suite written in Perl that looked interesting, I will have to find that again	17:46
danny_mk	I need a good WebMail client for one of my websites.	17:46
MrHairgrease	i don't think webgui offers you that	17:48
MrHairgrease	yet	17:48
MrHairgrease	it would make a pretty cool asset though	17:48
danny_mk	definitely would	17:49
danny_mk	Would need a team of developers just for that one I think :-)	17:50
MrHairgrease	or a lot of time	17:52
MrHairgrease	=)	17:52
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		17:53
nuba	danny_mk: i checked a while ago and the roundcube project was pretty nice	17:55
nuba	danny_mk: in case you're fishing for webmail recommendations :)	17:55
danny_mk	sure, however it is hard to find software that is developed either using Perl or Java. I am trying real hard to keep my servers PHP and other software free	17:56
danny_mk	just a personal preference.	17:56
nuba	same here	17:57
nuba	not easy tho	17:57
danny_mk	nope, but I kind of prefer it that way :-)	17:57
nuba	actually I usually avoid java too, if possible :)	17:58
danny_mk	RoundCube Webmail is written in PHP	17:58
danny_mk	darnit!	17:58
nuba	yes, i know. I've used it for a while, did some custom stuff for a client, check the code, it's not that bad..	17:59
danny_mk	it is not about the code. PHP is pretty easy to understand, I just did not want another language to worry about on my apps.	18:00
nuba	have you found any good looking, perl-based, webmail ?	18:01
-!- preaction [n=doug@h46097ff6.area4.spcsdns.net] has joined #webgui		18:01
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		18:01
nuba	or at least contemporary-looking..	18:01
nuba	i think openwebmail is nice but would use some interface revamp	18:01
danny_mk	openwebmail works great, however the interface is a little outdated for me http://openwebmail.org	18:02
danny_mk	right	18:02
nuba	yeah its hard to have that as the webmail offering in your portfolio	18:02
danny_mk	LOL	18:03
nuba	its feature-rich, but butt-ugly	18:03
nuba	as people are now used to interfaces like gmail's - for free	18:03
danny_mk	right	18:03
-!- AMH_Mari [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:04
danny_mk	If it would be integrated into WebGUI I bet the interface would benefit from YUI and the WebGUI api	18:06
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has left #webgui []		18:14
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		18:27
-!- preaction [n=doug@h46097ff6.area4.spcsdns.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		18:42
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		19:16
-!- xootom [n=tom@195.224.29.66] has left #webgui []		19:19
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		20:18
-!- preaction [n=doug@70.9.71.0] has joined #webgui		20:30
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		20:30
-!- preaction [n=doug@70.9.71.0] has quit [SendQ exceeded]		20:30
-!- preaction [n=doug@70.9.71.0] has joined #webgui		20:33
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		20:33
-!- preaction [n=doug@70.9.71.0] has quit [SendQ exceeded]		20:33
-!- preaction [n=doug@70.9.71.0] has joined #webgui		20:34
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		20:34
-!- preaction [n=doug@70.9.71.0] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		20:34
-!- harleypig [i=IceChat7@66.236.68.140.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #webgui		21:34
harleypig	Is there any known problem with starting spectre from the apache startup.pl script?	21:42
-!- preaction [n=doug@70.9.71.0] has joined #webgui		22:24
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		22:25
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-243-121.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		23:20
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-243-121.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		23:23
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		23:57
--- Day changed Sat Aug 04 2007
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@240.sub-75-205-112.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		00:13
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		01:06
harleypig	How can I make spectre use localhost instead of going all the way out to the dns server to find my local ip?	01:10
harleypig	Right now it's trying to connect to mydomain.com instead of localhost, so ithas to resolve the ip everytime.	01:10
@preaction	set your hostname in /etc/hosts ?	01:10
harleypig	I'd still have to set the hosts file to the external ip address.	01:11
harleypig	I guess it's not that big of a deal, now that I think of it.	01:11
@preaction	no, you could set the hosts file to 127.0.0.1	01:12
harleypig	No I can't ... I have other programs that require a valid ip for the domain name.	01:12
harleypig	I'm slowly getting rid of them though.	01:12
@preaction	that isn't a valid ip?	01:12
harleypig	Err .. a valid external ip.	01:13
@preaction	those sounds like some damned stupid programs :(	01:13
@preaction	spectre uses the first siteName in your webgui config, unfortunately so do a lot of other things	01:13
@preaction	(for display purposes, like mail sent out from a CS, but i suppose that's spectre sending out that mail)	01:14
harleypig	It just occurred to me that I should be setting the spectreSubnet variable to my external ip.	01:14
harleypig	blush	01:14
harleypig	That's why it's unable to connect.	01:14
@preaction	probably	01:14
@preaction	maybe even the spectreIp	01:15
harleypig	On another note on spectre ... is there a way to pass a command line parm that says exit if already daemonized.	01:15
@preaction	not that i know of	01:15
harleypig	I'm starting spectre in my apache startup.pl, but I guess I'm gonna have to add code to check if its already running.	01:15
@preaction	i don't know if spectre is process-aware of itself	01:15
harleypig	does spectre leave a pid file lying around?	01:16
harleypig	checking code	01:16
harleypig	Doesn'tlook like it	01:21
@preaction	i dont know if we'd consider that a bug, but rather an RFE (Having spectre become process-aware of itself)	01:22
harleypig	Yeah, I'd say it was an rfe too.	01:23
@preaction	but with that feature, we'd be able to connect to running spectre instances, which could allow for some very cool debugging	01:23
@preaction	feel free to post it, if we can get JT behind it it might make it into 7.5 (he's always looking for ways to minimize the problems people have with spectre)	01:24
harleypig	Ummm ... how much is acceptable? I haven't taken a deep enough look, but I know there is at least one module on the cpan that makes this easy.	01:25
harleypig	I mean, how much change is acceptable?	01:26
@preaction	how much what? i'd imagine it'd be as simple as spectre.pl checking for a $WEBGUI_ROOT/var/spectre.pid and then trying to connect using $WEBGUI_ROOT/var/spectre.sock	01:26
@preaction	as long as it doesn't break any existing API (you can extend them, but not break them), it's acceptable	01:27
harleypig	Ok.	01:27
@preaction	the difficulty though, will determine how long it takes before plainblack puts hours on it(unless someone in the community does it)	01:27
harleypig	:]	01:27
@preaction	posting patches, as long as they follow the WebGUI Best Practices (search the wiki), are usually immediately added to the next beta version (7.5.0 in this case)	01:28
harleypig	Wait ... connections to spectre are via http correct? If so, sock programming isn't necessary right?	01:34
@preaction	spectre connects to webgui via http, but currently there's no way to connect to spectre at all	01:34
@preaction	wait, webgui can communicate with spectre	01:34
@preaction	so yes, somehow. i think it's buried in the POE::Component::IKC::Client code	01:35
@preaction	i dunno, spectre's still a bit of a blackbox to me	01:35
harleypig	Oh. Why is it always more complicated than I think it is?	01:37
@preaction	the lament of every programmer everywhere ;)	01:37
harleypig	:]	01:37
@preaction	it always sounds easy, but it never is...	01:38
@preaction	the 90/10 theory: 90% of the cases take 10% of the work, the other 10% take 90%	01:38
harleypig	heh ... right.	01:39
harleypig	wierd ... in the spectre.pl code there is a line that is supposed to check if spectre is already running ... but I'm not seeing that error code.	01:39
harleypig	I need to back up ...	01:42
harleypig	I'm trying to get a source install working and I'm getting the following error:	01:43
harleypig	Couldn't connect to WebGUI site makethebad	01:43
harleypig	manstop.biz.conf at http://www.makethebadmanstop.biz:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData. Response: 500 read timeout	01:43
harleypig	Can anyone help me pinpoint this error?	01:43
@preaction	can you view that in a web browser?	01:44
@preaction	did you try: cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl spectre.pl --test ?	01:44
harleypig	No, I get a 500 error ... the log says ...	01:44
harleypig	I wasn't aware of that option ...	01:44
@preaction	it just tests connectivity, what does the webgui error log say?	01:44
harleypig	same thing	01:45
harleypig	Can't connect to data source 'dbi:mysql;makethebadmanstop_biz;host=localh	01:45
harleypig	ost' because I can't work out what driver to use (it doesn't seem to contain a 'dbi:driver:'	01:45
@preaction	that'd be your problem	01:45
harleypig	err ,,, error_LOG says this	01:45
@preaction	it should be dbi:mysql: (not ;)	01:45
harleypig	Oh ... wonder if that was in the default or if I fat fingered it ...	01:47
harleypig	I fat fingered it.	01:47
harleypig	sigh	01:47
@preaction	it happens	01:47
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		01:51
harleypig	Hmmm ... now that url is returning a json stream of just {}	01:57
harleypig	and the spectre.pl --test is failing.	01:57
@preaction	is the site up?	01:57
@preaction	does the webgui error log say anything? how about the apache error log?	01:57
harleypig	Ah ... I see ... my ip isn't in the list ... but the ip spectre is coming from is, according to the error message.	01:57
harleypig	yeah.	01:57
harleypig	apache error log doesn't say anything	01:58
harleypig	webgui says samething ... 500 read timeout.	01:58
@preaction	how about above that? webgui and spectre share the same error log	01:59
@preaction	or pastebin a tail of your webgui error log	01:59
@preaction	perlbot paste?	01:59
perlbot	Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.	01:59
harleypig	I'm reading the wrong part of the log ... I cleared the screen (pressed enter a bunch of times) and ran the test again. No error in either log, but the console says: ERROR: WebGUI cannot communicate with Spectre. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreIp or spectrePort setting the this config file	02:00
@preaction	spectreIp in spectre.conf is the IP that spectre will try to bind to. spectreIp in the webgui.conf is the IP that webgui expects spectre to be on. both should be the same (and the IP of the box)	02:01
@preaction	so probably your internet IP	02:01
@preaction	and then spectreSubnets should probably include that IP as well (but i'm not sure if that's required)	02:02
harleypig	Hmmm ... I was focusing on the makethebadmanstop.biz.conf file because that's where the variable spectreIp and spectrePort are ...	02:03
harleypig	but I'll try changing the ip variable as well in spectre.conf	02:03
@preaction	yeah, that's the right one	02:03
@preaction	oh, sorry, thought you were meaning webgui.conf	02:03
harleypig	Isn't webgui.conf the one that should be copied and modified for each site?	02:04
@preaction	yes	02:05
@preaction	i just said "webgui.conf" to refer to "yoursite's webgui configuration"	02:05
harleypig	ah	02:06
harleypig	makes sense	02:06
harleypig	wow ... impressive starter once you get it going.	02:13
@preaction	the new site wizard thing?	02:13
@preaction	i've never actually tried it	02:13
harleypig	Yeah	02:13
harleypig	Makes it easy to get new sites going with virtual hosts ... very cool.	02:14
@preaction	one of these days i'm going to make a call-to-arms for WebGUI Source Install package maintainers for various distros. it will help since some people seem to dislike the idea of the WRE adding an additional Perl / Mysql / Apache to their system	02:15
harleypig	I don't ... that's why I went the source route.	02:15
harleypig	I've already got all three, on a limited space account ...	02:15
@preaction	exactly, the type of people we need for "hobby users" (which in turn ask their places of employment to use WebGUI) usually know enough to run their own apache / mysql / perl	02:16
@preaction	so if we can get a .deb package (depends on Apache2-mpm-prefork, mysql-server, image-magick, perl-5.8.8) and add some simple scripts to create / delete webgui virtual hosts, it would be easy to install webgui from source	02:17
@preaction	the create script would add the appropriate virtualhost config to the appropriate place	02:18
@preaction	like a2ensite does for debian	02:18
@preaction	wg_addsite <sitename> and wg_deletesite <sitename>	02:19
harleypig	I'm not familiar with those, but I keep my virtual hosts in separate files	02:21
@preaction	they don't exist yet	02:22
harleypig	So i wouldn't be comfortable automating thatpart	02:22
harleypig	ah	02:22
@preaction	wg_addsite would create a new virtualhost file from a skeleton, replacing the server name, according to the distribution's standard method of doing it	02:22
harleypig	oic	02:22
@preaction	it'd be customized for each distribution	02:23
@preaction	or, theoretically, we could just maintain a man page that would tell the users how do to it	02:23
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #webgui []		02:23
harleypig	and a default of a dumped file they could paste	02:23
@preaction	something like an entire <VirtualHost *:80> they could customize for themselves	02:25
harleypig	exactly	02:27
-!- harleypig is now known as hjp_away		02:35
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		03:16
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has left #WebGUI ["Leaving"]		03:19
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		03:20
-!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		03:29
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ		03:29
+crythias	... and then I got the Wii and started moving content around with it within WebGUI and then...	03:31
@preaction	omg 31337!	03:31
-!- preaction [n=doug@70.9.71.0] has quit ["Leaving"]		03:56
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		05:13
-!- rizenisaway [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		09:15
-!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen		09:16
-!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ		09:16
-!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway		09:16
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:35
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		09:44
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B071420.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui		12:25
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B071420.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []		15:24
-!- besonen_mobile [n=besonen_@71-220-233-253.eugn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		16:43
+crythias	http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/Lenovo_3000_N200_0769/0769AFU/N03062/extended/	18:00
+crythias	sorry	18:05
+crythias	wrong link	18:05
+crythias	http://www.freakingnews.com/PacMan-Pictures--1129-0.asp	18:05
-!- wgGuest32 [n=wgGuest3@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		18:12
-!- wgGuest32 is now known as danny_mk		18:12
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		18:36
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		18:36
danny_mk	crythias, you around?	18:52
danny_mk	how bout you nuba?	18:53
-!- danny_mk [n=wgGuest3@68.15.55.161] has quit []		18:56
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		19:00
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		19:16
-!- wgGuest05 [n=wgGuest0@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		19:20
nuba	just passing by	19:41
nuba	oh hes not here anymore	19:42
nuba	nevermind	19:42
-!- hjp_away [i=IceChat7@66.236.68.140.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit ["Oops. My brain just hit a bad sector"]		20:03
-!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		20:05
-!- wgGuest05 [n=wgGuest0@68.15.55.161] has quit []		20:41
-!- khenn_ [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		20:47
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		20:55
danny_mk	Hi everyone	20:56
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		22:20
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		22:20
danny_mk	hmmm... the encrypt login option does not seem to be available in 7.4.1	22:35
-!- metaperl_ [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		22:54
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		23:07
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		23:10
-!- metaperl_ is now known as metaperl		23:10
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B071420.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui		23:12
-!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		23:18
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ		23:18
+crythias	yawn	23:21
-!- Klaus_2351 [n=Miranda@p5B071378.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui		23:34
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B071420.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		23:36
-!- Klaus_2351 [n=Miranda@p5B071378.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []		23:52
--- Day changed Sun Aug 05 2007
-!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #webgui []		00:25
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		01:17
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		01:27
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []		01:42
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		03:26
-!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		03:30
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ		03:30
-!- crythia2 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		03:51
-!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		04:06
-!- wgGuest26 [n=wgGuest2@ppp-70-253-77-61.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #webgui		06:08
wgGuest26	alive or memorex?	06:10
-!- wgGuest26 is now known as PerlPilot		06:10
crythia2	hm	06:13
PerlPilot	hmm hm hmmmm hmmm hm hm hm hmmm	06:16
-!- PerlPilot [n=wgGuest2@ppp-70-253-77-61.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit []		06:29
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Exit- stage left"]		06:59
-!- crythia2 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		10:13
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B072FAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui		14:02
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B072FAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []		14:02
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		17:31
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		17:31
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		17:39
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]		19:10
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []		19:54
-!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]		22:24
--- Day changed Mon Aug 06 2007
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		01:45
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		02:19
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		02:37
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]		04:04
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		04:38
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		04:42
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:38
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:40
-!- Khaytsus [i=wally@khayts.us] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		10:07
-!- Khaytsus [i=wally@khayts.us] has joined #webgui		10:07
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		10:41
-!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@a82-93-238-59.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		10:55
Radix-europe	hey dapperedodo - working from home today? :)	11:10
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		12:05
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		14:11
-!- AMH_Mari [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		14:21
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		14:34
-!- arnaud__ [n=arnaud@58.59.98-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #webgui		14:53
arnaud__	hi	14:54
* arnaud__ feels alone...		14:56
arnaud__	is there an ongoing French translation (i18n part) for the latest version ?	14:57
xdanger_	http://i18n.webgui.org/	14:59
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		15:00
arnaud__	thanks	15:00
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		15:02
arnaud__	no unicode...HTML element only ?	15:02
arnaud__	We (french people) like to throws accent everywhere...	15:03
arnaud__	forget my last comment... Seems like the editor take care of converting my accents to HTML entities...	15:09
arnaud__	Should I follow the (english) text inconsistency ? Or correct it in my translation ?	15:26
arnaud__	"How many impressions (individual displays of the ad) has the advertiser purchased? If they purchased a number of clicks you can leave this at zero."	15:26
arnaud__	shouldn't it be : advertiserS/they or advertiser/he ?	15:27
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		15:50
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@147.sub-75-204-77.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI		16:00
AMH_bob	Goodmorning!	16:07
arnaud__	hi !	16:08
arnaud__	(good afternoon here in France)	16:08
AMH_bob	(yeah, same here in Holland :P )	16:09
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		16:22
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Leaving"]		16:23
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		16:45
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		16:59
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:00
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		17:00
-!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@a82-93-238-59.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		17:21
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B0727BA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui		17:32
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:05
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		18:06
danny_mk	anyone around?	18:19
nuba	no	18:27
-!- AMH_Mari [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		18:35
danny_mk	nuba, I can't figure out what style is used when visiting any page and passing ?op=auth	18:37
danny_mk	I thouoght it was failsafe	18:38
@Haarg	it's whatever is set for the 'User Function Style' in Settings > UI	18:47
danny_mk	Thank you, darn that was hard to figure out :-)	18:51
-!- sanyock [n=sanyock@geeklife.ru] has joined #webgui		19:00
sanyock	Hi People!	19:01
sanyock	Unfortunately:	19:02
sanyock	<tmpl_if session.var.adminOn>	19:02
sanyock	</tmpl_if>	19:02
sanyock	does not work for me :(	19:02
sanyock	7.3.22	19:03
@Haarg	when did it stop working?	19:05
sanyock	I did not use it previously and guess it should work in predefined templates, but it does not work in my template	19:06
sanyock	Just tried to add it and does not work	19:06
sanyock	This templates has some other macroses like ^AssetProxy("aulix/style1/navigation");	19:07
sanyock	and tehy work fine	19:07
sanyock	In resulting page <tmpl_if session.var.adminOn> does not exist but the text inside it does	19:08
sanyock	I commited and cleared cache	19:08
-!- wgGuest93 [n=wgGuest9@113.8.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #webgui		19:18
sanyock	sorry, it was my mistake	19:21
sanyock	works fine now	19:21
wgGuest93	Hi. I'am a web designer and I'm new at CMS world. I've been reading and testing the demo of webgui; but I relly need more help (maybe starting from general concepts)	19:22
* sanyock wonders which SSO is the most popular and convenient: CSA or OpenID ?		19:24
wgGuest93	it is possible to install Webgui in a comercial Hosting?	19:25
sanyock	VPS	19:27
sanyock	when u r a root	19:27
wgGuest93	how i konw if im a root??	19:31
sanyock	if you do not know about root then most likely you should use plainblack.com shared hosting	19:33
wgGuest93	in this plainblack hosting, is Webgui pre-installed?	19:36
sanyock	yes	19:42
wgGuest93	there are several hosting plans at plainblack.com, will be enough with the "supported WebGUI hosting"?	19:47
nuba	danny_mk: you can look at the html for any unique-looking string	19:47
nuba	then search for it in the database	19:47
nuba	i do that with phpmyadmin, makes searching the entire db really easy	19:48
nuba	and to search the code i usually do "find /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ -type f \| xargs grep 'string' "	19:52
nuba	sometimes passing additional switches to grep	19:52
-!- wgGuest93 [n=wgGuest9@113.8.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit []		19:52
-!- sanyock [n=sanyock@geeklife.ru] has left #webgui []		19:55
danny_mk	talking about SSO, is someone working on a Auth module for OpenID or CSA?	19:59
danny_mk	I would be interested in using such a module.	19:59
danny_mk	OK nuba, I thought about that but the answer was easier than I expected.	20:01
nuba	danny_mk: you'll have to send karma this way: http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/openid	20:04
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui		20:44
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ		20:44
danny_mk	if it does not get done soon I will have to take on the project myself. It would be good to have this module.	20:54
danny_mk	I am still waiting to be passed the baton for the chat Wobject	20:56
+crythias	oooh... chat.	21:18
+crythias	seems everyone is doing a php chat thing	21:26
danny_mk	no, not a php chat one	21:33
danny_mk	a Perl one for Webgui	21:33
xdanger_	nuba: just a quick note... why do you use find? why not just grep -R 'string' /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/* ?-)	21:47
nuba	habits	21:50
nuba	im used to do lots of things with find\|xargs	21:51
nuba	doing*	21:52
nuba	plus you have things like mtime, size, etc with find	21:54
nuba	pruning	21:54
nuba	find rocks	21:56
nuba	love it	21:56
nuba	:)	21:56
xdanger_	=P	21:56
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B0727BA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		21:57
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		21:58
nuba	dumb recursing can be a real pita	21:59
xdanger_	I've never "really REALLY" mastered the *nix shell =)	22:00
nuba	well one is always learning :)	22:01
nuba	its hard to say one has really REALLY mastered anything..	22:01
xdanger_	I have a friend who (in my opinion) has mastered it... and many other things...	22:03
xdanger_	he has this incredible memory... he remembers every code that he has ever writen, and even all random generated passwords after just one read...	22:05
nuba	well, that happens sometimes i guess	22:06
nuba	now random generated passwords, after one read, thats crazyness :)	22:06
nuba	is he like "rain man" or anything ?	22:06
xdanger_	A little maybe...	22:07
nuba	heh	22:07
xdanger_	not in the "socialy stupid" but a little akward	22:07
xdanger_	He's now a very creative person... He always says that he's a little autistic	22:08
nuba	well they say no one is reeaaaly normal if you look close enough..	22:09
xdanger_	true	22:12
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui []		22:24
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui		22:27
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ		22:27
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		22:36
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		22:55
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		22:55
-!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: ckotil, AMH_henry, nuba, @preaction		23:06
-!- arnaud [n=arnaud@58.59.98-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #webgui		23:08
-!- Netsplit over, joins: ckotil, nuba		23:10
-!- Netsplit over, joins: preaction		23:10
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		23:11
-!- arnaud__ [n=arnaud@58.59.98-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		23:24
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@147.sub-75-204-77.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		23:54
--- Day changed Tue Aug 07 2007
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		02:43
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		03:25
-!- wgGuest49 [n=wgGuest4@242.10.101.97.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui		03:27
-!- wgGuest49 [n=wgGuest4@242.10.101.97.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit []		04:59
-!- sanyock [n=sanyock@geeklife.ru] has joined #webgui		05:04
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]		05:58
-!- sanyock [n=sanyock@geeklife.ru] has left #webgui []		06:21
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		06:50
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythia1] by ChanServ		06:50
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		07:16
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Exit- stage left"]		07:32
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		07:34
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		08:04
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		08:14
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythia1] by ChanServ		08:15
-!- AMH_Mari [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:01
-!- arnaud [n=arnaud@58.59.98-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["leaving"]		09:58
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		10:12
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer]		10:16
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		10:20
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		10:20
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		10:53
-!- sanyock [n=sanyock@geeklife.ru] has joined #webgui		11:04
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		11:56
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		12:14
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B072155.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui		12:27
-!- sanyock [n=sanyock@geeklife.ru] has left #webgui []		14:02
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		14:05
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		14:06
-!- AMH_Mari [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		14:06
-!- AMH_mari [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		14:06
-!- AMH_mari [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		14:08
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		14:12
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit]		14:14
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		14:14
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		14:15
-!- crythia1 [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui		14:58
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythia1] by ChanServ		14:58
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit [Connection reset by peer]		14:58
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B072155.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		15:53
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@86.sub-75-207-243.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI		16:06
AMH_bob	Hey, good morning!	16:17
SDuensin	Howdy	16:20
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		16:32
danny_mk	preaction, are you around? Do you have the code cleaned up for the chat Wobject?	16:33
-!- Radix-europe [n=Jesse@c529c7997.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui		16:54
-!- wgGuest47 [n=wgGuest4@host1.procolix.nl] has joined #webgui		16:56
-!- wgGuest47 [n=wgGuest4@host1.procolix.nl] has quit [Client Quit]		16:57
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		17:29
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:33
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		17:33
-!- wgGuest73 [n=wgGuest7@host1.procolix.nl] has joined #webgui		17:33
-!- wgGuest41 [n=wgGuest4@host1.procolix.nl] has joined #webgui		17:33
-!- wgGuest41 [n=wgGuest4@host1.procolix.nl] has quit [Client Quit]		17:33
-!- wgGuest73 [n=wgGuest7@host1.procolix.nl] has quit [Client Quit]		17:33
-!- wgGuest96 [n=wgGuest9@host1.procolix.nl] has joined #webgui		17:33
-!- synq [n=koen@host1.procolix.nl] has joined #webgui		17:34
synq	ielliew	17:34
wgGuest96	hai	17:35
synq	hai wgGuest Bart	17:39
Radix-europe	Hey Koen :)	17:40
synq	hai Jesse	17:40
synq	Radix?	17:40
Radix-europe	Yah	17:40
synq	shouldn't that be 'Radex' ?	17:40
Radix-europe	heh	17:41
Radix-europe	nope, I had the nick Radix before I went to your office ;)	17:41
synq	hehe	17:41
-!- synq is now known as SynQ		17:41
Radix-europe	My friends saw the photo I took of the outside of the office and said you spelt my name wrong on the welcome board ;)	17:41
wgGuest96	:)	17:42
Radix-europe	http://www.flickr.com/photos/radix999/982431612/	17:42
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B072155.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui		17:42
SynQ	hehe	17:43
Radix-europe	I decided to go see a few museums today - went to Museum Prinsenhof, Van Meerten and the Army Museum	17:44
-!- crythia1 [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		17:49
SynQ	nice	17:49
SynQ	how was the army museum?	17:49
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui		17:49
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ		17:49
Radix-europe	Pretty cool actually.. lots and lots of weapons, suits of armor, uniforms, swords, pistols, rifles, guns, tanks, rocket launchers, and everything else you find in war	17:50
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		17:50
SynQ	shot off limbs?	17:50
Radix-europe	http://www.flickr.com/photos/radix999/tags/army/	17:51
Radix-europe	the only museum I went to today where you could take photos.. and I took plenty :)	17:52
SynQ	old shit	17:54
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		18:02
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		18:08
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:09
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		18:20
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		18:20
-!- wgGuest96 [n=wgGuest9@host1.procolix.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		18:22
-!- Radix-europe [n=Jesse@c529c7997.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		18:22
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		18:42
nuba	find /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI -type f -name "*pm" \| xargs grep "' '" \| wc -l	18:44
nuba	72	18:44
nuba	find /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI -type f -name "*pm" \| xargs grep '" "' \| wc -l	18:45
nuba	73	18:45
nuba	lots of single spaces being quoted here and there	18:45
nuba	will this get replaced by q{ } etc as suggested by the perl best practices ?	18:46
nuba	and are we adopting perltidy too?	18:47
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit ["Leaving"]		19:37
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		20:23
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		20:24
-!- WebGUI [n=synq@i244017.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #webgui		20:36
WebGUI	hi	20:36
-!- WebGU1 [n=synq@i244017.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #webgui		20:45
WebGU1	hi all	20:47
WebGU1	again	20:47
nuba	hu synq	20:47
nuba	hi*	20:47
WebGU1	hi	20:47
WebGU1	how is business in brazil?	20:47
nuba	doing fine, thanks :)	20:48
WebGU1	are you happy?	20:48
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		20:49
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		20:49
nuba	sure	20:49
WebGU1	hi doug	20:49
WebGU1	JT around jet?	20:49
WebGU1	what time is it there?	20:49
@preaction	it's about 1:00p, JT's out due to some medical issues	20:58
WebGU1	oeh	20:59
WebGU1	he is pregnant?	20:59
-!- WebGUI [n=synq@i244017.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		21:00
nuba	huh	21:07
WebGU1	huh	21:09
nuba	there are rumors he's gestating a new wre :)	21:17
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer]		21:24
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		21:24
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction_] by ChanServ		21:24
-!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui		21:59
rjacobsen	i have updated webgui in the past and have had to change multiple stuff across the 20+ sites we are running webgui..... i would like to know what is the latest stable version of webgui is i can upgrade webgui to that has the least amount of bugs please	22:00
nuba	rjacobsen: latest stable was 7.3.22	22:02
rjacobsen	ty very much sir	22:03
rjacobsen	..... or mam	22:03
rjacobsen	whichever :)	22:03
nuba	"sir" would do :)	22:04
nuba	good luck	22:04
-!- preaction_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.1-beta 7.3.22-stable \| WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc .:. Feel free to ask questions on here - but make sure you stick around long enough for us to answer! :)		22:10
rjacobsen	will i have to change the permissions on all the sites after i update? (that would be hell)	22:14
@preaction_	which permissions?	22:15
@preaction_	which versions?	22:15
rjacobsen	the set permissions for people who can edit things on the sites	22:15
@preaction_	6.99.0-latest is generally a smooth ride	22:15
@preaction_	of course not	22:15
rjacobsen	like , you know, forums and events calendars and such	22:15
@preaction_	if you're upgrading through 7.3.0, the events calendars are going to get replaced with Calendars	22:16
@preaction_	read the gotchas	22:16
danny_mk	preaction: do you have the code for the chat Wobject?	22:56
-!- wgGuest13 [n=wgGuest1@83.228.8.109] has joined #webgui		23:04
-!- wgGuest13 is now known as todor_k		23:04
@preaction_	danny_mk, i could've swore i sent it to you, but i'll send it again	23:04
danny_mk	no problem, do you have my email?	23:06
-!- preaction_ is now known as preaction		23:06
@preaction	the one at yahoo?	23:06
danny_mk	you could also send it to my message box at plainblack	23:06
danny_mk	yes	23:06
@preaction	it's sent	23:21
danny_mk	cool, I will take a look at it tonight. I am just putting the finishing touches on this macro: http://www.webgui.org/user_contributions/user_contributions/macros/yuidatechooser#MglP0tYpUb5G7-zsTI-GAQ	23:24
-!- todor_k [n=wgGuest1@83.228.8.109] has quit []		23:30
nuba	danny_mk: nice	23:38
danny_mk	I am affraid that YUI or YUI-EXT does not provide date validation	23:40
danny_mk	however I have a script that adds methods to the Date object which works great. Validation is working well. I am testing it right now.	23:41
danny_mk	The only problem is that the user will have to add one extra files in either uploads or extras to include the date validation library.	23:41
-!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"]		23:42
danny_mk	Do you guys see that as a problem?	23:42
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		23:42
nuba	not for me. im just packing a macro to contribute too, and it has stuff under extras too	23:42
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		23:42
danny_mk	OK, it is done. With validation. Do you have time to test it?	23:43
nuba	in a few..	23:43
danny_mk	Will let you know once I upload it.	23:43
nuba	let me know when you've uploaded it	23:43
nuba	ok	23:43
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@86.sub-75-207-243.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		23:48
--- Day changed Wed Aug 08 2007
danny_mk	OK nuba, I have updated the files.	00:07
nuba	danny_mk: i gotta split, bbiaw	00:24
nuba	then i'll look at your contribution	00:24
nuba	i have just posted a new macro too, CreativeCommons, check it out!	00:25
danny_mk	Cool, I will.	00:25
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit ["Leaving."]		00:28
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B072155.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		00:30
-!- WebGU1 [n=synq@i244017.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit ["sleep is needed"]		00:30
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		00:46
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving."]		00:52
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]		01:09
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []		02:58
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		03:06
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		03:17
nuba	tagclods will consider "this thing" as two separated tags, is that the intended behaviour?	03:54
nuba	one tag being "this	03:54
nuba	the other being thing"	03:54
nuba	perlbot, paste	04:01
perlbot	Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.	04:01
nuba	pasted a nice string2list at http://erxz.com/pb/3945	04:03
nuba	found at String::Escape	04:04
nuba	oops, i meant tagclouds	04:05
nuba	posted as a bug	04:09
nuba	preload.custom <- kickass feature!	04:59
-!- sanyock [n=sanyock@geeklife.ru] has joined #webgui		05:34
sanyock	Hi All	05:34
sanyock	Please let me know, why there is no SSL port definition in the config? General port is there: "webServerPort" : 80	05:38
sanyock	I need use port different than 443	05:38
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		06:59
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		07:02
@preaction	sanyock, which config?	07:03
sanyock	preaction, I have a problem my ISP uses some cache software so that ports 80 and 443 work very bad for httpd	08:25
sanyock	so I have to change to 81 for http and say 444 for ssl	08:26
sanyock	unfortunately I cannot find where to configure this and it seems too dificult for me to change the source code of L_loginBox.t or related	08:27
sanyock	additional problem I have found that if visitor enters via SSL and then logges in, he is redirected to http (instead of keeping https)	08:28
@preaction	for that last bit you have to turn on Encrypt Logins (in the user tab of settings)	08:29
sanyock	it seems WebGUI does not keep previous state of the protocol and just returns to http after secure login	08:29
sanyock	I have had it	08:29
sanyock	the problem is that WebGUI changes back to not SSL instead of keeping SSL	08:30
sanyock	Actually I am thinking about turning off secure login, may then it will not try to switch back to http after login	08:31
sanyock	if user originally enter via ssl	08:31
@preaction	you may want to search the wiki or make a post on the forums about that, i don't think what you're describing should be happening	08:32
sanyock	It does, I tried to search forums on this topic	08:32
@preaction	yes, but since i can't help you (it's way too late and i need to sleep instead of pinning down this behavior), posting to the forums may be of more use to you	08:33
sanyock	ok, good night	08:49
-!- sanyock [n=sanyock@geeklife.ru] has left #webgui []		08:56
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		09:03
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:35
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:37
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		10:05
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		10:08
-!- wgGuest75 [n=wgGuest7@host1.procolix.nl] has joined #webgui		10:20
SynQ	morning :)	10:33
AMH_bob	Good morning!	10:33
Radix-europe	mornin	10:42
-!- wgGuest75 [n=wgGuest7@host1.procolix.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		11:13
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		12:31
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		12:32
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Leaving."]		13:53
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		14:37
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@153.sub-75-204-41.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI		16:14
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Leaving"]		16:46
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		18:11
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		18:15
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:56
-!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit ["Lost terminal"]		19:09
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		19:23
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@tintangel.cdl.edu] has joined #webgui		19:25
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@tintangel.cdl.edu] has quit [Client Quit]		19:26
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@tintangel.cdl.edu] has joined #webgui		19:30
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@wlan-145-94-247-59.wlan.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		19:43
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		19:44
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui		20:08
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ		20:08
-!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has joined #webgui		20:38
-!- wgGuest60 [n=wgGuest6@83.228.8.109] has joined #webgui		21:41
-!- wgGuest60 is now known as todor_k		21:42
-!- todor_k [n=wgGuest6@83.228.8.109] has quit []		22:39
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@tintangel.cdl.edu] has quit []		22:53
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@wlan-145-94-247-59.wlan.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []		22:58
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		23:39
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@153.sub-75-204-41.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		23:50
--- Day changed Thu Aug 09 2007
-!- crythia1 [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui		00:46
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythia1] by ChanServ		00:46
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit [Connection reset by peer]		00:46
-!- crythia1 [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui []		00:46
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #webgui []		01:15
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		01:21
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		01:26
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui		01:43
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ		01:43
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit []		01:49
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		01:59
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		02:57
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythia1] by ChanServ		02:57
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #webgui []		03:02
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		03:21
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		03:55
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit]		03:55
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		04:15
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythia1] by ChanServ		04:15
+crythia1	hrm.	04:16
@rizenisaway	hrrm.	04:21
-!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen		05:22
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		05:39
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit]		05:40
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		06:29
-!- metaperl_ [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		08:08
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		08:24
-!- metaperl_ is now known as metaperl		08:24
-!- metaperl_ [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		09:01
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		09:15
-!- metaperl_ is now known as metaperl		09:15
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:46
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		10:00
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		10:10
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B071F3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui		10:38
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Leaving"]		11:37
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		11:38
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		11:38
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		12:11
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		12:12
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		12:12
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		12:12
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		14:14
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Leaving"]		14:16
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has left #webgui []		14:21
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		14:21
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		14:21
-!- AMH_mar1 [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		14:28
-!- AMH_mar1 [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		14:29
-!- AMH_mar1 [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		14:29
-!- AMH_mar1 [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		14:30
-!- AMH_mar1 [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		14:31
-!- AMH_mar1 [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		14:33
-!- AMH_mar1 [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		14:34
-!- AMH_mar1 [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		14:34
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		14:36
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		14:51
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@228.sub-75-206-13.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI		15:53
AMH_bob	Howdy!	16:07
+MrHairgrease	hi	16:07
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		16:18
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythia1] by ChanServ		16:18
+crythia1	an answer... in search of a question.	16:19
+crythia1	found online: "Last week I attempted to use Occam's razor to settle an argument, but I ended up with an unsightly rash.	16:19
+crythia1	Should I have instead used Occam's Easy-off Wax Strips or Occam's QuickRemover Gel with new fresh lilac scent? Has anyone tried these yet?"	16:19
+crythia1	http://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?s=0f3121222d855a01ed7cbea63aee62b1&p=277807&postcount=1325	16:19
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		16:40
danny_mk	Preaction, you around?	16:41
danny_mk	I still have not gotten that email on the Wobject	16:41
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		16:44
@rizen	danny_mk, what sized attachment can your email support?	16:50
danny_mk	I have yahoo and it seems that I have gotten pretty big files without a problem. I am not sure what yahoo limitations are, let me check!	16:52
@rizen	i know he's sent the email twice now	16:52
danny_mk	Hmmm... what is his email address.	16:53
@rizen	doug@plainblack.com	16:53
danny_mk	Maybe he just does not have my correct email address	16:54
danny_mk	it is danny_mk@yahoo.com	16:54
@rizen	i've asked him to upload it somewhere and send you a url	16:57
@rizen	mind you he's not yet awake	16:57
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		16:58
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		16:58
danny_mk	it is OK, I just want to make sure someone works on it. I was looking at working on an OpenId Auth module	17:00
danny_mk	but I understand that is a RFE	17:00
danny_mk	I rather tackle the chat Wobject for now	17:00
danny_mk	but if not I will work on the OpenId module	17:01
@rizen	whereever you want to contribute you are welcome to do so	17:01
danny_mk	I need the chat Wobject	17:01
@rizen	we're certainly not trying to hold back the chat asset from you	17:01
@rizen	just technical difficulties	17:01
danny_mk	no problem, just want to make sure I don't duplicate work	17:01
+MrHairgrease	are you working on a chat wobject?	17:01
danny_mk	was...	17:01
@rizen	we've already written one	17:02
@rizen	and danny_mk has offered to enhance it	17:02
+MrHairgrease	cool	17:02
danny_mk	until I found out that other people had one written	17:02
@rizen	so that it can go into the core	17:02
+MrHairgrease	is it like the perlmonks chatter box?	17:02
+MrHairgrease	or can it actually connect to, say, msn	17:02
danny_mk	I have not seen the perlmonks one	17:03
@rizen	this isn't based upon any protocols	17:03
@rizen	it just uses standard http to allow realtimechat	17:03
@rizen	with thousands of users	17:03
@rizen	simultaneous	17:03
+MrHairgrease	so it's wg specific?	17:04
@rizen	yes	17:04
+MrHairgrease	ok	17:04
+MrHairgrease	I'll check it out when it's released	17:05
+MrHairgrease	sounds pretty cool	17:05
@rizen	we've been using it in production for a couple of months now	17:05
+MrHairgrease	If you want me to test it...	17:06
+MrHairgrease	I can try it out on the kornbeurs memebers site	17:06
+MrHairgrease	mebers*	17:06
@rizen	it works quite well for our needs, but danny_mk is going to introduce an ajax interface for smaller numbers of users, but with a fancier interface	17:06
+MrHairgrease	members*	17:06
@rizen	kornbeurs?	17:07
+MrHairgrease	www.koornbeurs.nl	17:07
+MrHairgrease	my 'student' club	17:07
+MrHairgrease	or what you call it	17:07
+MrHairgrease	you've been there once	17:08
+MrHairgrease	I manage the members only area of it	17:08
@rizen	cool	17:09
+MrHairgrease	The main site still runs on some really old homebrew php/html thingy my predecessor wrote	17:10
+MrHairgrease	but I haven't had time to convert it to webgui	17:11
@rizen	and you call yourself contributor of the year	17:11
Radix-europe	hehe	17:11
+MrHairgrease	no	17:11
+MrHairgrease	you did	17:11
+MrHairgrease	I just wlaked away with the prize	17:12
Radix-europe	MrHairgrease has been enjoying the drinking side of koornbeurs a bit too much and can't type.	17:12
+MrHairgrease	if radix_europe doesn't watch out he'll be the one having a difficulty in typing	17:13
Radix-europe	hehe	17:13
+MrHairgrease	actually he's sitting right next to me	17:13
+MrHairgrease	so the only thing holding me back right now from engaging in physical violence is compassion	17:14
@rizen	so how is your webgui sabbatical going radix?	17:14
+MrHairgrease	and of course the risk of retalliation	17:14
Radix-europe	I've been enjoying the beer	17:14
Radix-europe	Almost done here tho.. gf arrives tomorrow and off on my tour of europe this weekend	17:15
@rizen	did you learn anything from MrHairgrease?	17:16
Radix-europe	Yeah, he's given me some tips on how to read/write sql using the webgui api - been working on a basic sync workflow that synchronises webgui with our own database	17:17
Radix-europe	I've also been introduced to many different belgian and german beers while I've been here too - definitely a highlight :)	17:19
+MrHairgrease	radix_europe has almost become Dutch =)	17:20
Radix-europe	lol	17:20
+MrHairgrease	lol	17:20
+MrHairgrease	\|	17:20
+MrHairgrease	/ \	17:20
-!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.2-beta / 7.3.22-stable \| WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc		17:21
+crythia1	/(Help, I'm drowning!)	17:23
+crythia1	~~~\|o\|~~	17:23
+MrHairgrease	haha	17:24
+MrHairgrease	crythia1 wears no trunks	17:24
@rizen	so guys, quick opinion poll	17:25
Radix-europe	I don't like you	17:25
+MrHairgrease	option b	17:25
@rizen	who do you think deserves to be in the running for contributor of the year this year?	17:25
+MrHairgrease	was that quick or what	17:25
+MrHairgrease	option b	17:25
+MrHairgrease	i thin colin	17:26
+MrHairgrease	think*	17:26
@rizen	i think kathy for putting up with colin	17:26
@rizen	=)	17:26
Radix-europe	heh	17:26
+MrHairgrease	heh	17:26
Radix-europe	Colin gets my vote too	17:26
+crythia1	I've contributed by.. um.. not being so much of a jerk :)	17:26
@rizen	you're not a jerk	17:26
+crythia1	or annoyance..	17:27
+crythia1	hee	17:27
+MrHairgrease	iphoneguy	17:27
@rizen	i'm a jerk	17:27
+MrHairgrease	he created a more...	17:27
@rizen	who's been the most active helping people on the boards and updating wiki's and such?	17:27
+MrHairgrease	tight community	17:27
+MrHairgrease	everybody hated him	17:27
+MrHairgrease	so he was good for the group feeling	17:27
@rizen	you're right, i think he should get the vote	17:27
+MrHairgrease	dunno	17:28
+MrHairgrease	i don't read the boards that often	17:28
@rizen	me either	17:28
@rizen	i guess i'll have to run a report	17:28
+crythia1	Actually, I haven't contributed hardly at all. but then, the questions... I can't answer anymore.	17:29
@rizen	why can't you answer them anymore cry?	17:29
+crythia1	Well, they aren't so many newbie q's anymore, ... actually, not so many q's at all, really.	17:30
+crythia1	one or two people having issues, but upgraders ... not so much.	17:30
Radix-europe	I think the Wiki has helped with a lot of them	17:31
+crythia1	agree.	17:31
@rizen	well that's good then	17:31
@rizen	so maybe wiki should be contributor of the year	17:31
@rizen	=)	17:31
+crythia1	I keep updating one entry in my faq...	17:32
@rizen	which is?	17:32
+crythia1	I had a recent contributor.	17:32
+crythia1	the entry: What is the latest version of WebGUI.	17:32
@rizen	hehe	17:32
+MrHairgrease	heh	17:32
+MrHairgrease	maybe a wild idea	17:32
+MrHairgrease	but	17:32
+crythia1	But the point is, I keep links to both stable and beta.	17:33
+MrHairgrease	wouldn't it be a good idea to put your faq in the wiki?	17:33
+crythia1	it's too old	17:33
+crythia1	I mean, probably 10% is applicable any more.	17:33
+MrHairgrease	then put 10% in the wiki	17:33
Radix-europe	crythia1: if there is anything in you faq that is still applicable, it should be added to the wiki	17:33
+crythia1	almost all of it was 6.2	17:33
Radix-europe	So why do you bother updating it then?	17:34
Radix-europe	just redirect everyone to the wiki instead :)	17:34
+crythia1	http://www.gwy2.org/fomfiles/cache/52.html	17:34
+crythia1	probably should redirect to the wiki	17:35
-!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Leaving"]		17:46
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has left #webgui []		17:49
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:14
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		18:14
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui		18:19
elnino	good morning. Quick question.	18:19
elnino	I upgraded to 7.3.22 and nobody is getting any notifications anymore. Is there a pareticular group they need to be a part of?	18:20
elnino	approval notification - type notifications. Not subscriptions.	18:21
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:23
@rizen	did you restart spectre after the upgrade?	18:29
@rizen	cuz you need to do that	18:29
elnino	yep , but I can do it again, anything else to look at?	18:31
@rizen	run the spectre tests to make sure it's still able to connect	18:33
@rizen	and look in the mailQueue table to see if anything is waiting to be sent	18:33
@rizen	other than that, you'll need to contact plainblack support	18:33
elnino	ok. thanks. I'll logoff here and restart spectre. bye	18:35
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		18:35
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		18:40
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit]		18:40
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		18:55
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui		19:07
elnino	good morning. I'm still having problems with the approval notifications. I did some digging around.	19:08
elnino	I restarted spectre without errors.	19:08
elnino	I looked at running workflows and there are 11 listed	19:08
elnino	all of which are 'error". If I click on run, the response is "waiting"	19:08
elnino	If I do a spectre --debug. the message I get for all the waiting work flows is that it's "Was told to wait on EEIuxl-nLhtwJS7hcfAw0g because we're still waiting on some external event."	19:09
elnino	I did a select * on mailQueue and there iisn't anything in the table.	19:09
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		19:10
elnino	If I do a spectre --status, the workflows are listed as "waiting".	19:10
elnino	So what is it waiting for? - they are all pending approvals. So are they waiting for the CM to approve them?	19:11
elnino	under my webgui settigns, the default version tag workflow is "commit with approveal.	19:11
elnino	To recap, I'm not receiving any notifications related to the approval system.	19:12
elnino	i'm running 7.3.22, and it was workgin before the upgrade from 7.2.1	19:15
elnino	I couldnt find a specific log for spectre. is it the same as webguis?	19:25
@Haarg	yes	19:29
elnino	Hi! is there a way to find out what external event my pending workflows are waiting on?	19:32
@Haarg	what kind of workflows are they?	19:34
elnino	approval ones	19:34
@Haarg	so they are probably waiting on approval right?	19:36
@Haarg	there should be messages about that in the inbox	19:36
elnino	yep there are. so that's what they are waiting for? So i guess that is a separate issue thatI'm trying to solve.	19:37
elnino	I never recived emails telling me that there were approval to make.and there is nothing in the queue.	19:38
elnino	Im trying to figure out why emails were never sent.	19:40
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		19:41
elnino	emails to th users, as opposed to webguis inbox system	19:41
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		20:04
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		20:04
-!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		20:08
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		20:16
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving."]		20:23
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		20:35
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		20:46
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		20:46
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit ["Leaving."]		21:17
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		23:03
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		23:05
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		23:05
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		23:48
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@228.sub-75-206-13.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		23:51
--- Day changed Fri Aug 10 2007
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		00:30
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B071F3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		01:25
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B071F3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui		02:19
-!- Klaus_ [n=Miranda@p5B071F3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		02:48
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		02:50
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit []		03:10
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		03:10
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@204.147.1.130] has joined #webgui		03:13
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		03:14
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		03:53
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has left #WebGUI ["Leaving"]		04:07
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@204.147.1.130] has quit []		04:23
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		04:59
-!- sstanvir [n=Tanvir@s208148.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #webgui		05:22
sstanvir	hello	05:22
-!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui		05:38
diakopter	rizen: you around?	05:38
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		05:39
@rizen	sure	05:40
SDuensin	Evening, rizen	05:42
@rizen	howdy	05:42
SDuensin	Hmm. Spector is ignoring me. How rude!	05:43
@rizen	spectre is mean that way sometimes	05:44
diakopter	rizen: gj getting Config::JSON to pass all-green on cpantesters	05:45
@rizen	thanks	05:45
@rizen	apparently i'll be putting out a new release of it soon	05:45
SDuensin	I don't see any errors anywhere, the spector.pl --test passes, but my version tag sits in "pending". :-(	05:45
@rizen	Haarg has said he wants to update my tests so they aren't required prereqs	05:46
diakopter	yeah	05:46
@rizen	do you actually use config::json in something?	05:47
diakopter	yeah, WebGUI :P	05:47
diakopter	but...	05:48
diakopter	sec	05:48
diakopter	root@debian:/data/WebGUI/sbin [357] # which_pm Config::JSON	05:49
diakopter	Config::JSON '1.0.3' /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm	05:49
diakopter	the version number is not supposed to have quotes.	05:49
diakopter	root@debian:/data/WebGUI/sbin [359] # cpan Config::JSON <snip />	05:50
diakopter	I see you fixed that in 1.1.0	05:50
diakopter	so..... never mind	05:51
SDuensin	This could be bad: ADMIN: [Error] Couldn't fetch Spectre configuration data for new.blindsunlimitedonline.com.conf	05:51
@rizen	technically webgui doesn't use config json yet	05:53
@rizen	it won't until 7.4.3	05:53
diakopter	oh	05:53
@rizen	cuz of some bugs in config json i couldn't do the conversion	05:53
diakopter	well, I should've gone with my instinctive first answer then, to your question: testEnvironment.pl	05:54
SDuensin	I'm guessing I have a permissions issue somewhere?	05:54
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		05:55
@rizen	probably not	05:56
@rizen	more likely you have a corruption issue somewhere	05:56
SDuensin	It only gives me that error on a couple sites.	05:56
SDuensin	Database, I assume?	05:56
@rizen	do a curl http://www.example.com/?op=getSpectreConfig	05:56
@rizen	i think that's the url	05:56
@rizen	you may have to look up the name of the operation function	05:56
@rizen	see what data you get back	05:57
@rizen	or what error	05:57
SDuensin	It gave me the home page.	05:57
@rizen	that's bad	05:58
@rizen	look in your log	05:58
@rizen	there will be an error	05:58
SDuensin	attempted to execute an invalid operation: getSpectreConfig	05:58
@rizen	like i said look up the name of the function	05:59
@rizen	in Spectre.pm	05:59
SDuensin	Root cause: Can't call method "get" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Spectre.pm line 53.	05:59
SDuensin	That's more helpful.	05:59
@rizen	Operation/Spectre.pm	05:59
@rizen	look in your WorkflowInstance table	06:00
@rizen	i bet you have some corruption there	06:00
SDuensin	So how do I fix it?	06:01
SDuensin	Corruption disturbs me greatly.	06:01
@rizen	delete the workflow instances that have no workflowId	06:02
@rizen	i found this on one other site a couple of weeks ago but i couldn't figure out what causes it	06:02
@rizen	it doesn't seem to happen on bigger sites like plainblack.com	06:02
@rizen	only on this one small site of mine	06:02
SDuensin	It has an instanceId and workflowId.	06:04
SDuensin	There are a few NULL values.	06:04
@rizen	oh, well then maybe this is something different	06:04
@rizen	the thing i saw didn't have a workflowId	06:05
@rizen	i guess you'll have to find out what is being called on line 53	06:05
@rizen	and why you can't call get on it	06:05
SDuensin	Ah! I see a blank one.	06:06
SDuensin	Trying to do this with the mysql command line client - output is hard to read!	06:06
SDuensin	Excellent. That did it. Thanks!	06:08
SDuensin	Somehow, you need to get your brain into the wiki.	06:08
SDuensin	Man, a lot of my sites have this problem.	06:08
@rizen	maybe you can track down a common thread	06:09
@rizen	like i said i've only seen it oncce	06:09
@rizen	and it's hard to fix it on one piece of data	06:09
SDuensin	I'd love to.	06:09
SDuensin	I know how that is. Worst kind of bugs to find.	06:09
vayde	rizen, we still on for a brew on Sunday?	06:14
@rizen	sure	06:15
@rizen	just give me a call	06:15
@rizen	you have my new cell number?	06:15
@rizen	i think i emailed it to you	06:15
vayde	yep	06:15
vayde	I'll call you when I'm done teaching	06:15
vayde	I'll also get to show off my new ride... BMW R1100RT	06:16
SDuensin	Thanks again, rizen	06:19
@rizen	np	06:19
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Exit- stage left"]		07:08
-!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has left #webgui []		07:19
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		09:12
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		09:13
-!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ		09:13
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		09:17
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:41
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:42
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		10:10
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		10:16
-!- l-e-o-n [n=leon@as10p8.access.maltanet.net] has joined #webgui		11:33
l-e-o-n	hi from where i can change the domain of a website ? for example it was on example.com and i want it to temporary.example.com ?	11:36
l-e-o-n	no one ?	11:45
l-e-o-n	when trying to restart webgui i'm getting this: MySQL manager or server PID file could not be found! [FAILED] but then no errors to start MySQL	12:09
sstanvir	u hv to change the apache configuration file to change the domain name	12:13
l-e-o-n	i'm using wre...	12:14
sstanvir	well.... there should be httpd.conf	12:15
sstanvir	probably at this path: /usr/local/apache2/conf/httpd.conf	12:15
sstanvir	or somewhere else depending on ur setting	12:15
l-e-o-n	apache in wre is located in /data/wre/prereqs/apache	12:17
l-e-o-n	there is nothing in the httpd.conf of apache	12:17
sstanvir	is there any conf directory ?	12:17
l-e-o-n	no virtual hosts i mean	12:17
sstanvir	i c	12:17
l-e-o-n	i guess it is in /data/wre/etc/www.domain.com.modproxy	12:18
l-e-o-n	i'm changing the domain from there but i'm getting Bad Gateway error	12:18
sstanvir	how about the webgui configuration file ?	12:19
sstanvir	it should be somewhere like /data/WebGUI/etc/	12:20
sstanvir	actually i didnt use wre.. i installed from source.. so there are differences	12:20
sstanvir	but in case of apache httpd.conf there is one line: PerlSetVar WebguiConfig www.example.com.conf	12:21
sstanvir	it indicates the www.example.conf at /data/WebGUI/etc/	12:21
l-e-o-n	yeah changed that too	12:22
l-e-o-n	still Bad Gateway	12:22
sstanvir	did u change the "sitename" in the configuration file	12:24
sstanvir	and there is one setting for "gateway" too	12:24
l-e-o-n	gateway is /	12:26
l-e-o-n	yes i changed the sitename	12:26
sstanvir	ok	12:27
sstanvir	how about spectre ?	12:27
sstanvir	spectre is running normally?	12:27
l-e-o-n	yes	12:27
l-e-o-n	no errors	12:27
sstanvir	hmm	12:27
sstanvir	after the changes done did u restart apache	12:27
sstanvir	?	12:27
l-e-o-n	yep	12:28
sstanvir	ok	12:29
sstanvir	is the modperl running	12:29
sstanvir	check in the process	12:29
l-e-o-n	yes	12:29
l-e-o-n	its running	12:29
sstanvir	there could be another thing that I can think so far	12:30
sstanvir	modproxy cannot resolve the hostname in order to get to the modperl site	12:30
sstanvir	you have to check DNS then	12:31
-!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: prj2501		13:01
-!- Netsplit over, joins: prj2501		13:01
l-e-o-n	whats this error ? MySQL manager or server PID file could not be found!	13:10
-!- sstanvir [n=Tanvir@s208148.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"]		13:38
l-e-o-n	DBI connect('mysql;host=localhost;port=3306','root',...) failed: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/data/wre/prereqs/mysql/mysql.sock' (2) at ./setup	14:14
l-e-o-n	any help ?	14:14
l-e-o-n	no one can help me ? desperate :(	15:04
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		15:29
-!- l-e-o-n [n=leon@as10p8.access.maltanet.net] has quit []		16:30
-!- Radix-europe [n=Jesse@c529c7997.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui		16:32
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		16:32
danny_mk	Good morning everyone. Just as an unoficial announcement I have started developing an OpenId Auth module.	16:32
Radix-europe	Cool	16:33
danny_mk	I worked on it a lot yesterday and last night	16:33
danny_mk	understanding the flow of the Auth api has been a bit challenging but I am getting there :-)	16:35
-!- l-e-o-n [n=leon@as10p8.access.maltanet.net] has joined #webgui		16:36
-!- l-e-o-n [n=leon@as10p8.access.maltanet.net] has quit [Client Quit]		16:37
nuba	danny_mk: cool	16:42
danny_mk	Yup, I decided on the Auth modules since I could not get my hands on the chat one. I will work on that one after I get the Auth module done.	16:43
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		16:54
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:06
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		17:06
nuba	question re: licensing..	17:07
nuba	i posted a patch for this but http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/tagcloud-keywords_pm	17:07
nuba	with a string2list sub based on String::Escape's string2list	17:07
nuba	how's that, license-wise ?	17:07
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:19
-!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ		17:19
-!- Radix-europe [n=Jesse@c529c7997.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]		17:25
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		17:53
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:29
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		18:31
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		18:56
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		19:05
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		19:05
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		20:12
danny_mk	Hmmm... which is the best way to retrieve parameters submited with a GET method?	22:39
@preaction	WebGUI::Session::Form	22:39
danny_mk	is it $self->session->form->process(...) or $self->session->request->param(...)	22:39
@rizen	$session->form->process("fieldName","fieldType");	22:40
@preaction	form->process (or form->get which is a synonym)	22:40
danny_mk	hmmm... darn value does not show up. I must have an error in my code	22:40
danny_mk	You know what, I can see the value in the URL, however I log some debug info and when I view the log the values are empty	22:41
-!- sno [n=sno@adsl-76-226-106-15.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #WebGUI		22:44
danny_mk	Hmmm... now I am starting to wonder if cache has something to do with this problem	22:47
@preaction	danny_mk, are you using Apache2::Reload for your development? or are you restarting apache?	22:48
danny_mk	restarting apache every time	22:49
@preaction	if you want to make sure it isn't the cache, rm -rf /tmp/WebGUICache	22:49
danny_mk	let me try that	22:49
danny_mk	Darnit, darnit, darnit!!! this freaking value won't show up at all. Arggghhhh....	22:52
danny_mk	My jedi powers are not fully charged, I can feel the dark side taking over...	22:53
danny_mk	I bet it is not even webgui, I think it has more to do with the OpenId api and the redirect	22:54
nuba	danny_mk: you may want to use firefox's livehttpheaders extension	22:56
nuba	if you're debugging http headers	22:56
nuba	redirects and such	22:56
danny_mk	Hmmm.... I did not even think of that, there is something else I could use to monitor the trafic.	22:58
danny_mk	Oh well, that is why you are here. To point me in the right direction :-)	22:58
sno	I have some questions about packages.	23:15
sno	Anyone here with knowledge?	23:15
sno	:)	23:15
@preaction	perlbot ask	23:15
perlbot	Ask forth your question to the all-knowing channel and we shall bestow upon you the answer of correctitude.	23:15
sno	Importing a package. Does it import to the current Asset list, or to the full path of the original?	23:16
@preaction	depends on if the package already exists. if it doesn't exist, it will be imported as a child of the current asset, but the URLs will remain the same	23:17
sno	So if I package a snippet, and I'm sitting on the root node, it will be placed in the root node (if new and unque)?	23:18
@preaction	yes	23:18
@preaction	no, if you import a package containing a snippet	23:18
@preaction	when you create a package, the assets just stay where they are	23:18
sno	What I think I understand you are saying is that if I create a package deep in a tree like /root/import node/myasset/myassetchild where assetchild is the package, then move it to another WebGUI server and import at /root, the package is installed at /root.	23:20
@preaction	right	23:22
sno	Sigh	23:22
@preaction	later imports of the same package will be put in the same place as the existing package	23:22
sno	MIght I suggest that there be an import_to feature added?	23:24
danny_mk	rfe	23:24
sno	?	23:24
@preaction	but then the package would potentially have to create all the assets above it in the lineage, it's impossible to know what those assets are supposed to be	23:25
sno	But in the case of a dev server to production server, that stuff better be there already.	23:25
@preaction	but we can't just add a feature for one case, we need to think about every single case	23:26
@preaction	and if it's a dev-to-production move, why can't you move it yourself?	23:26
sno	I may not have those permissions.	23:26
@preaction	then why are you allowed to import that package?	23:27
sno	I'm talking like I'm writing instructions for others to use.	23:27
sno	I'm allowed to create the export.	23:27
@preaction	so they're allowed to edit the stuff on dev, but not on production?	23:28
sno	Essentially true, but by policy, not by access restrictions.	23:28
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui		23:28
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ		23:28
sno	I was hoping that an export on a known environment would have the ability to find it's own fully qualified destination.	23:29
@rizen	you solve the problem by you as the administrator	23:29
@rizen	importing the package the first time	23:29
@rizen	that way all subsequent releases will have it	23:29
sno	I am not the administrator.	23:30
@rizen	and put it in the same place every time	23:30
@rizen	"you as the administrator" doesn't mean you snpo	23:30
@rizen	sno	23:30
@rizen	it means whoever the hell is the admin	23:30
sno	I understand. I'm having to write the instructions the admin will use.	23:31
sno	Importing four packages will require documenting all the navigation through the system the admin needs to do for each onel.	23:31
+crythias	hm.. I have an api change/suggestion.	23:32
+crythias	pie in the sky, thing.	23:32
+crythias	the extensible asset type table.	23:33
+crythias	something like all assets of every type share one table.	23:33
* crythias ducks.		23:33
@preaction	i've suggested as much before, but if users are allowed to edit those tables, they can choose column names that we may want in the future	23:33
sno	Is there a way to remove a poorly installed package if it is imported into the wrong place?	23:34
@rizen	the same way you remove any other asset	23:35
@rizen	delete it	23:35
@rizen	purge it	23:35
+crythias	well, preaction, I could suggest a naming scheme for columns such that all pb columns are pb_ ...	23:35
@rizen	crythias, you're not a programmer and as such shouldn't be suggesting implementation details	23:35
@rizen	preaction and crythias about three years ago i put forth such an idea on the dev mailing list before i developed assets and everyone threw a hissy	23:36
@rizen	and i also brought up the idea again on either irc or the dev mailing list whereby instead of using the normal tables to look up an asset, we make the search indexer better and use the search engine to look up an asset	23:37
danny_mk	rizen: Can you explain what happens when the uri contains "?op=auth&method=login" I am reading through the code and it seems it will take me a while longer	23:44
danny_mk	do you think you can clear that up a bit faster?	23:44
danny_mk	I thought Auth was called and then the appropriate Auth/Module for that particular user	23:44
@rizen	it calls lib/WebGUI/Operation/Auth.pm sub www_auth()	23:44
@rizen	which instanciates the appropriate auth module	23:45
@rizen	which then runs the login() method on that module	23:45
danny_mk	is there somoething parsing the parameters before it hits the "appropriate auth module"?	23:45
@rizen	you mean parameters other than op and method?	23:47
danny_mk	if I add a variable to the url such as "?op=auth&method=login&test=me" then I try to get the value $self->session->form->process("test") in lib/Webgui/Auth/mymodule->login	23:48
danny_mk	yes	23:48
@rizen	nope	23:48
@rizen	you still have access to those params	23:48
@rizen	but don't use &	23:48
@rizen	use ;	23:48
danny_mk	let me try that, hold on	23:48
@rizen	i guess it should still work with &	23:48
@rizen	but ; is the standard in webgui	23:48
@rizen	and in HTML	23:48
danny_mk	I am missing something here. The url looks like: http://myhost.com/?op=auth;method=login;checkOpenId=1 In Auth/OpenId.pm->login I have $self->session->form->process("checkOpenId")	23:55
danny_mk	I print the value to the error log with $self->session->errorHandler->warn("The value of OpenId is: $checkOpenId")	23:56
danny_mk	sorry I forgot to put my $checkOpenId = $self->session->form->process("checkOpenId") but I think you get the idea. I look at the log and the value is empty	23:57
@preaction	danny_mk, where's the username? it needs a username in order to get the right auth module. you'd need to have a user register their open ID	23:57
@preaction	the users table has the username and the authMethod, it looks up which authMethod to use from the username. i believe that's all handled by WebGUI::Operation::Auth	23:58
danny_mk	I put in a username that is how the value gets logged using warn	23:58
danny_mk	It does get to the OpenId module	23:58
danny_mk	it even sends me to the openid website	23:59
--- Day changed Sat Aug 11 2007
danny_mk	I used liveHttpHeaders to look at the traffic and everything looks right	00:00
@preaction	pastebin your module?	00:00
danny_mk	where do I paste it? here?	00:01
@preaction	perlbot pastebin	00:01
perlbot	(see paste)	00:01
@preaction	perlbot paste	00:01
perlbot	Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.	00:01
danny_mk	http://sial.org/pbot/26792	00:04
danny_mk	done	00:04
danny_mk	remember, it is a test case	00:04
@rizen	what is: my $checkedOpenId = CGI::param("checkOpenId");	00:05
danny_mk	I have tried almost everything to get it to see the parameters, CGI was my current test.	00:06
-!- dionak [n=dkidd@cpe-024-074-133-226.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui		00:06
dionak	hi all. i've been looking into tests today and noticed there might be a need for a test for SQLForm. I wrote a test based on the Asset test. I'm not an 'official developer' so what would be the best way to submit the test for review?	00:08
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		00:12
@rizen	drop me an email with your test	00:12
@rizen	i'll review it	00:12
@rizen	and if i think it's good enough i'll grant you commit access	00:12
@rizen	jt at plainblack dot com	00:12
dionak	ah, ok. thanks.	00:13
@rizen	i agree that SQL Form needs a lot of automated tests	00:13
dionak	Cool. This should be a start but is by no means extensive. I'll work a little more on it and send it on Monday.	00:13
-!- dionak [n=dkidd@cpe-024-074-133-226.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit []		00:14
@preaction	danny_mk, the code looks fine. nothing in the error logs or otherwise?	00:16
@preaction	try putting checkOpenId=1 elsewhere in the URL, i've had instances where the last URL name=value pair didn't get read for whatever reason. you may also want to beware of case sensitivity	00:17
danny_mk	only what I write to them and then I get only what I write to them and then I get	00:17
danny_mk	2007/08/10 16:52:50 - WARN - develop.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::warn[430] - Cool[]	00:17
danny_mk	2007/08/10 16:52:52 - WARN - develop.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::warn[430] - Visitor (1) connecting from 127.0.0.1 attempted to login to account with invalid information.	00:18
danny_mk	as you can see it hits the OpenId::login function	00:19
danny_mk	the weird thing is that everything within the form on first post works great. It seems to be during the redirect that items in the uri are lost	00:20
@preaction	danny_mk, here's a subroutine that can be used in a .t file that will get a request from an asset. if you modify it to also handle operations (perhaps instead of $asset it gets a subref), you can use the Perl debugger to step through your code and find out what the issue is)	00:26
@preaction	http://pastebin.ca/652879	00:26
@preaction	you'll have to write your own test, of course, but that'd be a good idea anyway	00:26
@preaction	or even just a driver for the sub so you can use the debugger	00:26
danny_mk	sounds good. I definitely want to get this issue solved.	00:26
danny_mk	I can see how openId would benefit some of my other projects	00:27
@preaction	it's a great SSO solution imho	00:27
@preaction	will your module also be an OpenID provider?	00:28
@preaction	i suppose that would require pluggable operations, or an "OpenID Provider" asset	00:28
danny_mk	that is always a thought but I have to get the Consumer part done first. At this point that is more important.	00:29
@preaction	of course	00:29
danny_mk	by the way, case sensitivity has been an issue so many times I definitely look at that first :-)	00:31
danny_mk	Thank you for your help. I have to be here tomorrow again. I really need another job where I can work on this stuff full time :-)	00:33
danny_mk	later...	00:34
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		00:34
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui []		00:35
-!- sno [n=sno@adsl-76-226-106-15.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"]		01:12
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		01:29
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		01:35
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythia1] by ChanServ		01:35
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #webgui []		02:42
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit []		02:57
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		03:17
-!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #webgui []		04:06
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		04:17
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		04:19
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		06:45
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit]		06:47
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		06:52
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		06:52
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		06:56
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		08:13
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Exit- stage left"]		08:25
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		08:55
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		09:01
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haaarg] by ChanServ		09:01
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		09:03
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		09:49
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		09:49
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		10:37
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		11:20
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		12:03
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		12:04
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haaarg] by ChanServ		12:04
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		12:40
nuba	;0	13:07
nuba	oops	13:07
SynQ	hello world	15:04
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		16:46
danny_mk	Good morning	16:47
danny_mk	I figured out what the problem was last night with the OpenId module	16:47
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		17:03
danny_mk	Hmmmm.... I am curious about something.	17:10
danny_mk	Would'nt it be better/faster not to make a trip to the DB if the $authMethod for the user is already set?	17:11
SynQ	good afternoon even :)	17:14
danny_mk	right! sorry, I can't forget obout the international community :-)	17:15
SynQ	hehe	17:24
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		18:55
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		18:55
SynQ	hey mister hairgrease	18:55
SynQ	how goes you?	18:55
+MrHairgrease	it goes it's gang	18:56
danny_mk	good so far	18:56
danny_mk	making good progress on the OpenId Auth module	18:56
SynQ	openid?	18:56
danny_mk	Yup.	18:57
SynQ	what is that?	18:57
danny_mk	http://www.openid.org/	18:57
SynQ	33 days old i see	18:59
SynQ	who owns openid?	19:00
danny_mk	No, that website may be 33 days old but the idea has been around for quite a while	19:00
danny_mk	This site may be better: http://openid.net/	19:01
SynQ	ah	19:01
SynQ	it is owned by an american foundation	19:01
SynQ	oh it isn't	19:02
SynQ	it is a Dutch foundation	19:02
SynQ	hm http://openid.net/wiki/index.php/OpenID_Foundation_Europe	19:03
SynQ	that is dutch at least	19:03
SynQ	I'm checking out if I can install WebGUI to a KVM virtual machine, but the kvm wiki is offline :(	19:23
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		19:30
SynQ	hi JT!	19:30
+MrHairgrease	koen	19:31
SynQ	oh, I mean, bye JT!	19:31
+MrHairgrease	jt just left the room	19:31
SynQ	:)	19:31
SynQ	I say hello and you say goodbye	19:31
+MrHairgrease	sound like a 60s song	19:31
SynQ	it is	19:31
+MrHairgrease	damn hippie	19:32
SynQ	peace man	19:34
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		20:11
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		20:12
-!- ifireball [n=ifirebal@84.229.65.248] has joined #webgui		20:43
ifireball	hello	20:43
ifireball	I'm trying to create a new navigation template	20:44
ifireball	I was wondering if there is somewhere I can see what all the <tmpl_var...>s mean	20:45
+MrHairgrease	it is in the help	20:45
+MrHairgrease	Admin Console > Help > Assets >Navigation	20:45
+MrHairgrease	in the menu on the right choose Navigation template	20:46
+MrHairgrease	something like that	20:46
+MrHairgrease	it'll list all allowed tmpl_vars	20:46
+MrHairgrease	and what they're good for	20:46
ifireball	cool. thanks!	20:48
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		21:24
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		21:24
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui		21:59
danny_mk	quick question if any of the developers are around.	22:07
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		22:11
danny_mk	Can I trigger an WebGUI::Operation::Auth::www_auth from a macro for a succesful login?	22:13
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		22:30
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		22:30
--- Day changed Sun Aug 12 2007
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #webgui []		00:05
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		01:39
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		01:53
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []		02:38
-!- metaperl [n=metaperl@208.255.24.131] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- State of the art IRC"]		02:59
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		04:45
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		04:45
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		05:08
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		05:54
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		05:54
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		06:52
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		06:52
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		06:56
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		06:56
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haaarg] by ChanServ		06:56
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		07:50
-!- Radix-europe [n=Jesse@c529c7997.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui		10:23
-!- Radix-europe [n=Jesse@c529c7997.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]		10:53
SynQ	hi	12:04
SynQ	could I have the mediawiki alike <pre></pre> style in the webgui.org user wiki for quoting system commands	12:04
SynQ	please	12:04
SynQ	numbered lists just don't seem as clear to me	12:04
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		16:25
danny_mk	Any of the developers around?	17:55
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		18:38
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		19:02
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		19:10
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		19:10
-!- YossiN [n=Natanson@89.1.225.143.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #webgui		19:33
YossiN	hi all. I tried the demo but didn't find how to create a menu. can any1 guide me where is it hiding?	19:34
YossiN	hello?	19:36
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		19:42
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		19:42
YossiN	hi all. I tried the demo but didn't find how to create a menu. can any1 guide me where is it hiding?	19:43
+MrHairgrease	You should use the Navigation asset	19:43
+MrHairgrease	it's in the Content part of the admin menu	19:44
YossiN	navigation asset... thanks, will look into it	19:44
+MrHairgrease	ok	19:44
+MrHairgrease	good luck	19:44
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		20:13
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		20:13
-!- YossiN [n=Natanson@89.1.225.143.dynamic.barak-online.net] has left #webgui []		20:24
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		22:22
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haaarg] by ChanServ		22:23
-!- Haarg_ [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		22:24
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		22:32
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		23:38
--- Day changed Mon Aug 13 2007
danny_mk	If anyone is around. Do you know how to set a param in $self->session->form->param	00:18
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]		00:49
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		02:19
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		02:19
-!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		02:23
-!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has joined #webgui		02:23
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		02:35
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		04:47
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		05:32
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		05:32
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		05:37
-!- Haarg_ [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		05:47
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		08:04
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:39
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:47
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		13:05
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit]		13:05
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		13:05
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		13:26
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		14:01
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		14:28
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		14:28
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Client Quit]		14:31
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		14:32
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		14:32
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@178.sub-75-207-209.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI		15:41
AMH_bob	Greeting to all!	15:46
SDuensin	Ugh.	15:47
SDuensin	Whee.	15:47
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		16:07
-!- wgGuest73 [i=fiddur@c042.rit.se] has joined #webgui		16:15
wgGuest73	Hi folks. I have a problem with a mail form that works for a while and then stops sending email. You can see in the data list that new entries has been done, but no email was sent... how do I debug that?	16:17
@preaction	did you check the mailQueue table?	16:18
@preaction	is spectre running?	16:18
-!- wgGuest79 [i=fiddur@c042.rit.se] has joined #webgui		16:20
wgGuest79	yes, spectre is running, and the mailq is empty...	16:20
wgGuest79	can I connect to this irc with an irc-program instead of java?	16:21
@preaction	yes, it's just freenode	16:21
-!- fiddur [i=fiddur@c042.rit.se] has joined #webgui		16:21
-!- wgGuest79 [i=fiddur@c042.rit.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		16:21
fiddur	Ah thanks...	16:22
fiddur	so, does spectre have any log of its own?	16:22
@preaction	no, it shares the webgui.log	16:22
@preaction	did you check the server's mail log?	16:23
* SDuensin is having mail related problems, too.		16:23
SDuensin	Nothing in my logs. :-/	16:24
fiddur	preaction: The mail log shows nothing more than start and end of queue runs (exim4)	16:24
fiddur	could increase log level perhaps...	16:24
@preaction	perhaps to just see that it makes it to exim	16:25
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		16:26
fiddur	it doesn't seem to get to exim, no...	16:28
fiddur	I see the post in the domains access_log...	16:29
@preaction	disable the Send Queued Mail Messages scheduled task	16:31
fiddur	hmm, I see, for another domain, a spectre-error of some sort: 2007/08/13 15:29:42 - ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1013] - WORKFLOW: Something bad happened on the return of 3bmsdCHHv376WPouPnvu1Q.	16:31
@preaction	and then post again and see if it makes it to the mailQueue	16:31
fiddur	Where do I disable Send Queued Mail Messages? Note, I'm not the one who set up this server, I'm standing in for a guy on vacation...	16:33
fiddur	ah, I found it...	16:36
fiddur	the disable-setting, that is	16:37
fiddur	No, it still doesn't maike it to the mail queue. Could the error from the other domain disturb spectres running on this domain I'm working on?	16:39
@preaction	you could try stopping spectre entirely and then seeing if it goes into the mailQueue	16:44
-!- tc777 [n=tc@vt.dierbergs.com] has joined #webgui		16:57
-!- tc777 [n=tc@vt.dierbergs.com] has quit [Client Quit]		17:01
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:01
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haaarg] by ChanServ		17:01
fiddur	preaction: No, still nothing in the queue...	17:07
fiddur	I got some other problem it seems... in the log, it complains about not being able to delete an undefined value: WebGUI::Operation::Workflow::www_runWorkflow. Root caus	17:07
fiddur	e: Can't call method "delete" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/File.pm line 272.	17:07
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		17:37
fiddur	It seems adding a sanity-check on File.pm line 272 made mails get to the queue; i.e. adding if( WebGUI::Storage->get($self->session,$storageId) )	17:41
fiddur	But that probably means my db is corrupt in some way :/	17:42
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		17:46
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		17:46
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		17:49
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-110.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit]		17:50
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:00
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:08
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:12
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@tintangel.cdl.edu] has joined #webgui		18:57
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		19:17
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		20:00
-!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ		20:00
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		20:32
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		20:32
danny_mk	Hmmm... I think I just got the WebGUI::Auth::OpenId module working right!	21:49
@rizen	sweet	21:51
danny_mk	Darnit, I really think I got it. It works pretty good :-)	21:52
danny_mk	Let me work on the Internationalization part and I will upload a copy in a couple minutes	21:53
+MrHairgrease	hey danny_mk	22:14
+MrHairgrease	i was wondering	22:14
+MrHairgrease	why did you use lwpx::paranoidUserAgent	22:15
+MrHairgrease	or whatever it's called	22:15
+MrHairgrease	good job btw	22:15
danny_mk	because that is what was available in the example and I just wanted to get it done fast.	22:28
danny_mk	I will look into that stuff later.	22:28
+MrHairgrease	ok	22:28
+MrHairgrease	just read a bit about it	22:28
danny_mk	btw. I would like to include a provider bann list under the admin tools	22:28
+MrHairgrease	http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=602005	22:28
+MrHairgrease	ah	22:29
+MrHairgrease	you can do that	22:29
+MrHairgrease	use the settingForm method	22:29
danny_mk	sure, I have to get this working perfectly first	22:29
+MrHairgrease	something like that	22:29
danny_mk	If you would like to see the one that is working perfectly without i18n then check it out here: http://sial.org/pbot/26840	22:33
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		22:56
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		23:11
-!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ		23:11
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #webgui []		23:11
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		23:17
-!- SynQ [n=koen@host1.procolix.nl] has quit ["[BX] The Power Rangers use BitchX. Shouldn't you?"]		23:39
-!- SynQ [n=koen@host1.procolix.nl] has joined #WebGUI		23:41
danny_mk	I did not notice a versioning document on the PlainBlack website. Did I miss it?	23:43
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@178.sub-75-207-209.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		23:44
@rizen	a versioning document?	23:48
@rizen	you mean how to access subversion?	23:49
danny_mk	no, I mean I want to put a version number on the OpenId module	23:49
danny_mk	I started with version 0.0.0.1	23:49
@rizen	oh	23:50
@rizen	goal / feature/ fix	23:50
danny_mk	3 numbers?	23:50
@rizen	goal = when the api changes	23:50
@rizen	yeah	23:50
@rizen	feature - added to the API but didn't change it	23:50
@rizen	in a way that would break it	23:50
@rizen	fix - no new features, just bug fixes	23:50
@rizen	a.b.c	23:51
danny_mk	ok, I guess this version should now be 1.0.1	23:51
@rizen	http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/version-numbers	23:51
danny_mk	OK	23:51
danny_mk	How do you guys want to see the list of banned providers implemented? Single table, etc...	23:52
@rizen	what is a banned provider?	23:52
danny_mk	in case you do not want to accept accounts from myopenid.com, myhackedwebsite.com, etc...	23:53
+MrHairgrease	although i don't know much about openid	23:53
+MrHairgrease	if it's just a list of banned providers	23:54
@rizen	is it just a list of URLs?	23:54
@rizen	or is there more to it?	23:54
+MrHairgrease	i'd put em in a table called AuthOpenIdBannedProviders	23:54
+MrHairgrease	just one column	23:54
@rizen	i wouldn't even go that far if it's a list of urls	23:54
@rizen	i'd just create a new field in settings	23:54
@rizen	make it a text box	23:54
+MrHairgrease	the suggested formelement would be a textarea	23:54
danny_mk	like a filter on a router. Do not accept connections from x.x.x.x	23:54
@rizen	and tell the user to put one per line	23:54
+MrHairgrease	oh yeah	23:55
danny_mk	the user would not manage these	23:55
danny_mk	only administrators will have access to this stuff	23:55
@rizen	the user in this case being admin	23:55
+MrHairgrease	i forgot the authsetting were stored in the settings table	23:55
@rizen	cuz only admin can get to the settings screen	23:55
+MrHairgrease	use that	23:55
+MrHairgrease	rizen is right	23:55
+MrHairgrease	ah man it hurts to say that	23:56
danny_mk	ok.	23:57
--- Day changed Tue Aug 14 2007
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		00:52
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]		01:03
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui		01:22
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ		01:22
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		01:51
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []		02:24
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		03:35
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #webgui []		04:17
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		05:04
danny_mk	why does the Settings module delete commas from a textbox?	05:43
danny_mk	never mind, it was me :-(	05:45
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		06:10
danny_mk	OK, I think I have one bug left to work on and it should be completely done. It has to do with the International Module so I should be able to get it done tomorrow.	06:23
danny_mk	I will upload a working copy that defaults to the English language.	06:23
danny_mk	At this point it is fully functional and you can test it on NON-Production websites.	06:24
danny_mk	Good night.	06:24
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		06:24
-!- fiddur is now known as fiddur\|jobb		07:38
fiddur\|jobb	morns	07:38
-!- fiddur\|jobb [i=fiddur@c042.rit.se] has quit ["L�mnar"]		07:38
-!- fiddur [i=fiddur@c042.rit.se] has joined #webgui		08:59
fiddur	Hello. I get a warning in the log that "You've disabled cache in your config file...", but in the domains conf it says "disableCache" : "0"	09:00
fiddur	Is it referring to some other (global) config file, even though it states the domain name in the log-row?	09:02
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		10:04
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		10:06
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		10:30
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		10:51
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		11:55
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		12:05
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		14:07
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		14:51
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@150.sub-75-206-127.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI		16:03
@rizen	fiddur, did you restart modperl after changing the config file to read disableCache : 0	16:14
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		16:14
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		16:23
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		16:23
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit]		16:25
xootom	Just a quick question about packages: from experience it seems that restoring a package (say from templates on webgui.org) it is restored with its original asset IDs. I want to use a package to define a default "sub-site" set of pages (about, forums, contact, faq) that I can keep importing for each new user, will they import with different IDs?	16:38
@rizen	importing a package is different than deploying a package	16:39
@rizen	when you import a package from a file it maintains the asset id's that it used when it got exported from the site	16:40
xootom	Ahh that's great thanks	16:40
@rizen	but deploying the package creates a copy of all the assets	16:40
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		16:40
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		16:48
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		16:49
danny_mk	is the person that refered me to this http://pastebin.ca/652879 code in here?	16:49
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:08
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haaarg] by ChanServ		17:08
danny_mk	OK, I tested the OpenId auth module on a coupule of my systems and it seems that the Internationalization problem is bigger than I expected.	17:17
@rizen	what exactly is the problem?	17:18
SDuensin	OpenId? Ooo!	17:18
danny_mk	becasue of the fact that OpenId implementations go back and forth between the Provider website and the WebGUI website, WebGUI looses track of who $session->user is	17:19
danny_mk	When the International module looks for $session->user it fails because it complains that it can not call methods on "user" invalid reference or something like that	17:20
danny_mk	I will get the right error in a few min.	17:20
@rizen	methinks you have a typo	17:20
danny_mk	I even pass the English language to the International module as a work around and it still fails	17:21
danny_mk	ok, I will buy that.	17:21
@rizen	specifically that you're not passing the session object into the i18n constructor	17:21
@rizen	somewhere	17:21
danny_mk	ok, let me paste code on pastebot	17:21
@rizen	post your code to a pastebin somewhere and i'll take a look	17:21
@rizen	yeah	17:21
danny_mk	http://sial.org/pbot/26852	17:22
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		17:23
danny_mk	disregard the comments, they are left over from my tests.	17:25
@rizen	sorry, this doesn't help	17:25
@rizen	need the whole file	17:25
danny_mk	ok	17:25
@rizen	and why are you calling new backwards	17:25
@rizen	my $i18n = new WebGUI::International($self->session, 'AuthOpenId', 'English');	17:25
-!- khenn [n=khenn@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		17:26
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		17:26
danny_mk	http://sial.org/pbot/26853	17:27
-!- fiddur [i=fiddur@c042.rit.se] has quit ["L�mnar"]		17:27
danny_mk	either or way works the same, I am used to the C# and Java way so it feels familiar	17:28
-!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:28
@rizen	it's against WG best practices though	17:31
danny_mk	No problem, I can change that.	17:31
@rizen	not that big of a deal, was just pointing it out so you knew	17:31
@rizen	what is the exact error message you're seeing?	17:31
danny_mk	hold on	17:32
danny_mk	Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::User::www_editUser. Root cause: Can't call method "user" on an undefined value at /opt/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/International.pm line 264.	17:33
danny_mk	If I don't use the International module everything works great :-(	17:34
danny_mk	Darnit!!! I can't believe it. I thought I looked over all the code but I did have a typo	17:38
SDuensin	:-)	17:38
SDuensin	Is this a contributed module, or part of the 7.4.x tree?	17:38
danny_mk	and talk about JT pinpointing it. WG best practices conflicted with my best practices :-)	17:39
danny_mk	LOL	17:39
@rizen	so this bug is no more then?	17:39
danny_mk	i had "my $i18n = new WebGUI::International->new(...	17:40
AMH_henry	@danny_mk: my $i18n = new WebGUI::International($self->session, 'AuthOpenId', 'English'); won�t work because there's already a subroutine called new in your current package	17:40
AMH_henry	you really need the ->new syntax	17:40
danny_mk	not true Henry but I did change the code.	17:40
danny_mk	I am going with WG best coding practices. That way I will avoid conflicts when cutting and pasting code.	17:41
danny_mk	You know, a couple things that still bug me are the fact that I use CGI::new instead of $self->session->request	17:43
danny_mk	it should really work with the request object but I had problems with that in the beggining. I may take a look at that today.	17:44
AMH_henry	see http://perldoc.perl.org/perlobj.html (Indirect Object Syntax)	17:45
danny_mk	Hmmm.... great call Henry. I stand corrected. No more Indirect Object Syntax for me in Perl :-	17:47
danny_mk	rizen: No more International bug. Wish I was home so that I could test it on my other systems. I will have to do that tonight.	17:52
@rizen	is Net::OpenID::Consumer only using CGI for form params?	17:54
@rizen	if so, you could just pass $session->form into it	17:55
@rizen	because it has a compatible param() method	17:55
danny_mk	ok, let me try that.	17:55
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:01
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		18:05
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:06
danny_mk	Hmmm... it has a problem with that. Let me look at the WebGUI api to see if I can find a suitable object. It really wants one of these: a HASH ref, CODE ref, Apache $r, Apache::Request $apreq, or CGI.pm $cgi.	18:11
danny_mk	I have to step away from my computer for a few min but BRB	18:11
@rizen	oh	18:13
@rizen	then just give it $session->request	18:13
@khenn	is anyone working on the weather bug?	18:18
danny_mk	I did that a few times and it still had problems but hopefully they were related to the other bugs I had. let me try it again.	18:20
danny_mk	Unknown parameter type (Apache2::Request=SCALAR(0x84923878))	18:21
-!- preaction [n=doug@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		18:22
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		18:22
danny_mk	Hmmm...	18:22
danny_mk	CGI::new works great but I would prefer not to use another module.	18:22
@rizen	not to mention it won't make it into the core with that	18:27
@rizen	not that i'm saying it would make it into the core without it either	18:27
-!- khenn [n=khenn@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #WebGUI []		18:28
danny_mk	I understand. I like the idea of SSO using a trusted 3rd party and I thought OpenId was a viable solution.	18:28
* SDuensin likes OpenId.		18:30
@rizen	sure, i like openid too...but until i can fully review your implementation i can't say it will make it in	18:31
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		18:33
-!- khenn [n=khenn@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		18:35
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		18:35
danny_mk	Ah, gotit! I had to look at the code in Session::Form and I used $session->form->paramsHashRef	18:42
-!- professorfrink_ [n=dstephan@h-74-0-5-198.phlapafg.covad.net] has joined #webgui		18:47
-!- professorfrink_ [n=dstephan@h-74-0-5-198.phlapafg.covad.net] has quit [Client Quit]		18:49
danny_mk	Hmmm.... the perdoc documentation for WebGUI::Cache does not seem to acurately reflect the actual module.	19:21
@rizen	report a bug if that's the case	19:21
danny_mk	is there a problem with using Cache::File instead of WebGUI::Cache ?	19:21
@rizen	yes	19:23
@rizen	mainly that Cache::File is horribly inefficient	19:23
@rizen	we used to use it in WebGUI	19:23
@rizen	it's a big stupid pig	19:23
danny_mk	LOL... Ok, I will use WebGUI::Cache instead.	19:24
@rizen	also Cache::File won't work on clusters	19:25
@rizen	WebGUI::Cache is cluster safe	19:26
danny_mk	rizen: What is the required second argument to "WebGUI::Cache->new($self->session,???)", does it have to be ["user",$userId]?	19:38
danny_mk	I hate to keep asking all these questions but I rather move this along instead of spending hours reading and understanding modules	19:39
@rizen	the key that you're storing under....usually an assetId or something else unique to you	19:39
@rizen	you could say "auth_openid"	19:40
@rizen	if you're only storing one thing in it	19:40
danny_mk	right now I have my $cache = WebGUI::Cache->new($self->session,["openidSession",$wgOpenIdKey]);	19:40
@rizen	i don't know exactly what you're doing with the cache so i can't say more than that	19:40
@rizen	that would work	19:41
danny_mk	I know the value of wgOpenIdKey from a posted argument. When I recreate the cache with the same arguments it should work right?	19:41
@rizen	yup	19:41
danny_mk	even if I have a different session and I am a different user?	19:41
@rizen	yeah, sessionId has nothing to do with it	19:42
@rizen	unless you include that in your key name	19:42
danny_mk	ok, thanks.	19:42
danny_mk	OK, last question before I do another release. This one uses the WG api where ever it has to.	20:15
danny_mk	In using Cache I need to pass an cache object that "has a ->get($key) and ->set($key,$value) methods" WebGUI::Cache and its derived classes do not really seem to support these signatures.	20:17
danny_mk	I can do it without cache but it is recommended we use cache.	20:17
@rizen	nice job with openid...looks good	20:49
@rizen	at first glance	20:49
danny_mk	Thank you.	20:50
danny_mk	I forgot that I don't have an explanation for the Accept and Deny lists in the Settings.	20:50
danny_mk	The list has to be separated by commas	20:51
danny_mk	I will put that in my post	20:51
danny_mk	rizen: without reading through all the code is there an easy way to ad the tooltip to the Accept and Deny lists?	21:16
@rizen	on the form element pass in a parameter called hoverHelp	21:16
@rizen	hoverHelp => $i18n->get("accept list help"),	21:17
danny_mk	ah, perfect, thanks.	21:17
-!- khenn_ [n=khenn@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		21:25
-!- khenn [n=khenn@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		21:25
xootom	I have a query about groups. In the user import script (unlike the groupadd macro) does it only take group IDs to join the user to a group? I.e. the random ID, not the 'nice' group name.	22:40
@rizen	yes it only takes the group id	22:41
@rizen	not the name	22:41
@rizen	bug--	22:45
@rizen	bug --	22:45
@rizen	bug --	22:46
@rizen	bug --	22:46
@rizen	bug --	22:46
xootom	Thanks, I've added some users with it now, there are a few hundred so I get the search when I go to user manager. The users all have a unique number as their default username, but I only appear to be able to search on username... how would I find someone based on their name?	22:46
@rizen	if you add their first/last name to their profile	22:47
@rizen	the user manager lets you search on username, email address, first name, and last name	22:47
@rizen	danny_mk: what about the cache docs didn't you like?	22:50
@rizen	the only thing i found that was suspect, that the "key" parameter wasn't fully documented in the constructor	22:50
xootom	I've added firstnames and last names and they are visible in the user profile view but I can only find the user if I type a bit of the username	22:52
@rizen	did you see in the search there is "begins with"	22:53
@rizen	"ends with"	22:53
@rizen	contains	22:53
@rizen	etc	22:53
@rizen	make sure you have that set appropriately	22:53
@rizen	so if you're tying "fred"	22:53
@rizen	then you either need contains or begins with	22:54
@rizen	if the thing you're searching for is "fredrick"	22:54
xootom	Yeah I've tried all the settings, i'm trying Paul, tried both cases, it returns one I added manually but not one from the user import	22:54
xootom	i.e. only the one that paul was in the username	22:54
xootom	It's on Contains Paul Any	22:54
xootom	his user name is Y372202399054	22:55
xootom	so searching Y returns him, but Paul doesn't	22:55
@rizen	your right, it appears to be a bug	22:56
@rizen	it's currently only searching email address and username	22:56
@rizen	it's supposed to search all four	22:56
xootom	ah ok I'll raise it as a bug thanks	22:56
danny_mk	rizen: I have to delete or annotate that but. I typed in 'perldoc Cache' in the WebGUI/lib/WebGUI directory and I assumed it was looking at the pod contained in WebGUI::Cache	23:35
danny_mk	sorry about that.	23:35
danny_mk	I never looked in the file!	23:35
--- Day changed Wed Aug 15 2007
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@150.sub-75-206-127.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		00:01
xootom	What's the minimum permissions needed to give users access to modify their own set of pages? -- I have given a user access to a group with permissions to edit a page. Do I have to put them into "turn admin on" to let them edit content?? I tried logging in as this test user, and they can go into version tags and delete and mess around with other people's working tags etc. etc. which doesn't seem very secure.	00:03
@preaction	they don't need to be part of Turn Admin On to edit, but they do need a link to ?func=edit	00:05
@preaction	they will need access to Turn Admin On to be able to commit their version tag	00:05
@preaction	in 7.4 you can set permissions for every panel in the admin console, so if you want, the Turn Admin On group can turn admin on but not actually do anything	00:06
xootom	can they see the version tags panel though and switch to and commit other people's version tag?	00:06
@preaction	yes	00:06
@preaction	7.4 also has a way to auto-commit every edit to an asset, which would probably serve you better	00:07
xootom	yes that'd probably do it, i wonder how i can provide them with edit buttons to everything though if they can't turn admin mode on	00:07
@preaction	you'd allow them to turn admin on, by adding them to the Turn Admin On group, but you'd modify the Admin Console permissions to deny them from actually Doing anything on the admin console	00:08
xootom	can i make the auto-commit only apply to lower ui-level users?	00:10
@rizen	o	00:10
@rizen	no	00:10
* danny_mk is back		00:13
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]		00:14
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		00:21
xootom	At the moment Turn Admin On users see all the New Content items even on pages they don't have permissions to, resulting in permission denied errors. I'm thinking of filing an RFE, it would seem to me to be more logical for users without access to add things to the current page, not to see the New Content side panel at those times (the same as you don't see Clipboard or Version Tags when they're empty)	00:21
-!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		00:33
-!- khenn_ [n=khenn@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		00:38
xootom	I've enabled auto-commits on my site, but when i save or change an article or whatever, it doesn't appear after pressing save, I have to go to another page then back again, or press reload (but then I have to confirm reposting form data etc). is that a known bug?	00:48
@rizen	how do you know you enabled auto commits?	00:58
@rizen	there are three things you have to do to make it work	00:58
@rizen	Automatically request commit? has to be yes	00:59
@rizen	Skip commit comments? shoudl be yes	00:59
@rizen	Default Version Tag Workflow has to be Commit Content Immediately	00:59
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@tintangel.cdl.edu] has quit []		01:02
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui []		01:04
xootom	ahh my Default VT workflow was still set at Commit without approval, I hadn't noticed the new option. Thanks	01:25
@rizen	bug --	01:28
@rizen	bug --	01:28
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		01:43
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		01:43
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		01:55
@rizen	bug --	02:09
* SDuensin cheers ++		02:14
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		02:23
-!- preaction [n=doug@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]		02:28
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #webgui []		03:01
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		03:53
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		04:34
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		05:21
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		05:21
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		05:46
-!- wgGuest57 [n=wgGuest5@host-230-38-230-24.midco.net] has joined #webgui		06:32
-!- wgGuest57 [n=wgGuest5@host-230-38-230-24.midco.net] has quit [Client Quit]		06:32
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Exit- stage left"]		07:03
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		07:30
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:35
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:36
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:44
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		09:44
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		09:46
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:51
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		12:05
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		13:07
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@146.sub-75-206-250.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI		15:57
SDuensin	Morning.	16:06
AMH_bob	Top of the morning to you too.	16:06
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@wlan-145-94-244-71.wlan.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		16:12
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		16:12
@rizen	howdy all	16:44
+MrHairgrease	hi	16:44
SDuensin	Hey rizen	16:48
SDuensin	Howdy MrHairgrease	16:48
+MrHairgrease	hi SDuensin	16:56
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:08
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haaarg] by ChanServ		17:08
xootom	hi all	17:14
+MrHairgrease	hi	17:15
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		17:19
-!- sno [n=sno@adsl-76-226-106-15.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #WebGUI		17:32
sno	What does it mean when this message pops up during a CGI save attempt? "This Asset is locked for editing under a version tag different from the one that you are using."	17:33
+MrHairgrease	it means that someone (maybe even yourself) has edited the asset under adifferent tag than you are using	17:34
+MrHairgrease	and that that tag has not yet been comitted	17:34
+MrHairgrease	to edit the asset either:	17:34
+MrHairgrease	1) Commit the tag the asset is under and once that is completed edit it.	17:35
+MrHairgrease	or	17:35
+MrHairgrease	2) switch to the tag the asset is under and edit it	17:35
sno	Hmm. That asset hasn't been edited since yesterday, but was committed. I was working on that part of the system for an hour today, and then suddenly this popped up as a problem.	17:35
sno	Even so, I went to version tags and for some reason found a version not committed.	17:36
sno	Weird.	17:36
+MrHairgrease	if you loose your cookie	17:36
+MrHairgrease	and log back in	17:36
* SDuensin hates tight cookies.		17:36
sno	Maybe that was it.	17:36
+MrHairgrease	you will not be under the tag you were in your last session	17:36
+MrHairgrease	could be	17:36
+MrHairgrease	anyway	17:37
+MrHairgrease	just use that tag and carry on =)	17:37
sno	Checking the admin nav version tag option and committing it solved it. Thanks.	17:37
+MrHairgrease	ok	17:38
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		17:50
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:18
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:18
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui		18:25
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ		18:25
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		18:41
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		18:58
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		18:58
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@wlan-145-94-244-71.wlan.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []		19:04
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		19:11
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		19:17
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		19:17
+MrHairgrease	rizen	19:17
+MrHairgrease	i have a question about workflow activities	19:17
+MrHairgrease	\do you have time?	19:18
@rizen	shoot	19:19
+MrHairgrease	i'm planning on making one which should fetch files from an ftp server or something like that	19:19
+MrHairgrease	now	19:19
+MrHairgrease	activities can only last one minute	19:19
+MrHairgrease	so what would be the best appoach to fetch file that take over a minute to download?	19:20
+MrHairgrease	i thought maybe forking a process or something like that	19:20
@rizen	you'd need to fork a process	19:20
@rizen	yeah	19:20
+MrHairgrease	but that isn't portable	19:20
+MrHairgrease	right?	19:20
@rizen	no it isn't	19:20
+MrHairgrease	ok	19:20
@rizen	what kind of file would you be downloading that would take that long?	19:20
@rizen	don't get me wrong	19:21
@rizen	i understand in the greater scheme of FTPing	19:21
@rizen	it could take days to download stuff	19:21
+MrHairgrease	i dunno yet	19:21
@rizen	but relative to the workflow engine	19:21
+MrHairgrease	but it should be possible	19:21
@rizen	it seems that anything you were going to grab would be quick	19:21
@rizen	one way to do it in a portable fashion	19:22
@rizen	would be to write an FTP service daemon	19:22
@rizen	that the workflow activity could communicate with	19:22
@rizen	that way it would be portable	19:22
@rizen	and could run as long as it needed to	19:22
@rizen	and could notify the workflow when it was done doing whatever it was asked to do	19:22
@rizen	i'm not saying writing an FTP server	19:22
@rizen	but rather an FTP getter	19:22
@rizen	as a daemon	19:23
xootom	I'm importing users using userImport.pl, but my file has birthdates in a date format and they're not getting converted (epoch time in seconds?)... where should the conversion take place, a special case for 'birthdate' in userImport.pl?	19:31
@rizen	you'd need to request a new feature be added to userImport.pl	19:31
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		19:36
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		19:39
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit [Client Quit]		19:40
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		19:42
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		19:42
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		19:43
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		19:43
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		20:05
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit]		20:05
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		20:17
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has joined #webgui		21:21
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit []		21:25
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		21:26
perlmonkey2	Wow, lots of people in the room today. Or has this become the norm?	21:27
@rizen	this has become the norm lately	21:27
@rizen	for the past couple of weeks	21:27
@rizen	the other day there were almost 30 people on at the same time	21:28
-!- Archer [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		21:33
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		21:34
@preaction	i blame the split of plainblack.com/webgui.org	22:02
+MrHairgrease	for what?	22:02
@preaction	the new influx of people to WebGUI and this channel	22:03
+MrHairgrease	that's good right?	22:04
@preaction	yes	22:04
@rizen	hehe	22:14
@preaction	that and new exposure on F/OSS websites like sourceforge, ohloh, and any other ones we find.	22:16
+MrHairgrease	it's just that	22:17
+MrHairgrease	i expected you, as a experienced svn user, to praise good things instead of blameing em	22:17
+MrHairgrease	but that's just me =)	22:18
@preaction	but an experienced svn user knows that blame and praise is the same thing ;)	22:18
+MrHairgrease	sure	22:18
+MrHairgrease	I'm not saying you're wrong	22:18
+MrHairgrease	It's just the way you feel when you decide which one to use	22:19
+MrHairgrease	think of it in beer	22:19
+MrHairgrease	if you hate someone	22:19
+MrHairgrease	give 'em bud light	22:19
+MrHairgrease	if you praise em	22:20
+MrHairgrease	give miller mgd	22:20
+MrHairgrease	or even better	22:20
+MrHairgrease	something from belgium	22:20
+MrHairgrease	=)	22:20
@preaction	you're evil. i wouldn't subject even my enemies to the horrors of bud light	22:20
+MrHairgrease	i once bought one in chigcago	22:20
+MrHairgrease	but what did know...	22:20
@preaction	yes, they call that "beer" around here... it's crazy	22:21
+MrHairgrease	back then I was hip fashionable eurotrash too	22:21
+MrHairgrease	crazy waterdrinkin yankees =)	22:21
@preaction	you think that's bad, you haven't had Milwaukee's Best Light (also known as The Beast), or Natural Ice (also known as Nasty Ice)	22:21
+MrHairgrease	and I never will...	22:22
@preaction	you're not coming down for the wuc?	22:22
+MrHairgrease	No, I'll be there	22:23
+MrHairgrease	but I won't drink that crap	22:23
@preaction	i suppose, you've tried the Bud Light (Uncle Ben's Perverted Rice Water), i shant subject you to worse ;)	22:24
+MrHairgrease	it had no taste at all	22:24
@rizen	while MHG is here I'm going to get him hooked on Capital brew and Great Dane brew	22:24
+MrHairgrease	i'd rather drink tap water	22:24
+MrHairgrease	you do that	22:25
+MrHairgrease	joeri will tag along too I'm sure	22:25
@rizen	it's good stuff...and i'm not even a beer dringer	22:25
@rizen	drinker	22:25
+MrHairgrease	speaking of beer.	22:25
+MrHairgrease	It's time for a couple	22:25
+MrHairgrease	while you guys are struggling to 5pm =)	22:26
+MrHairgrease	later guys	22:26
@rizen	later	22:26
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []		22:26
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@146.sub-75-206-250.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		23:46
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		23:53
--- Day changed Thu Aug 16 2007
+crythias	MGD... mmm	00:09
+crythias	like Corona... without the pretention.	00:09
perlmonkey2	POE is a workaround to Perl's lack of decent threading. With Perl 6 having a real threaded env, why is POE (vulnerable to blocking) better?	00:13
perlmonkey2	In regards to the pure perl stack.	00:13
@rizen	because POE is not threaded	00:14
@rizen	threading is not a good thing when you're talking about high performance environments	00:14
@rizen	don't get be wrong...threading is easy and useful	00:14
@rizen	s/be/me/	00:14
@rizen	think of it this way	00:15
@rizen	with threads you have a stack	00:15
@rizen	and a heap	00:15
@rizen	sorry stack	00:15
@rizen	the stack can only grow to a certain size	00:15
@rizen	and the thread manager is heavy because it has to be generic enough to handle anything	00:15
@rizen	when you write an event driven mono-process like POE	00:16
@rizen	you can build in the multi-tasking the way you want it done	00:16
@rizen	rather than how the thread manager want's it done	00:16
@rizen	that's why most video games are single threaded	00:16
@rizen	they can outperform the native threads and processes of the operating system's environment	00:17
perlmonkey2	Even if that is so, what about taking advantage of multi-proc/core machines?	00:17
@rizen	well that's the advantage of using a preforker or a native thread library	00:18
@rizen	it usually handles that for you	00:18
@rizen	although some thread libraries can't handle multi-processors at all or very well either	00:18
@rizen	the arguement basically boils down to a build it vs buy it scenario	00:19
@rizen	if you build it, it will take more time and you'll have more initial heart aches	00:19
@rizen	but you can make it do anything you want	00:19
@rizen	and exactly how you want	00:19
@rizen	if you buy it	00:19
@rizen	then you're stuck with what they give you	00:19
@rizen	in our case, we're actually not building it or buying it in the traditional sense	00:20
perlmonkey2	So even though POE is single threaded, you get exact control over where the control point goes after every stack exit?	00:20
@rizen	we're buying something someone else has built	00:20
@rizen	yes, we can put in our own process queing and process priorities	00:21
@rizen	we can set up our own exit points, heap managmeent, etc	00:21
@rizen	incidentally, once perl6 is released, rocco has stated that one of the process management options will be to use perl's native threading	00:22
@rizen	so we'll have that option too	00:22
perlmonkey2	eh? POE will use 6's native threading?	00:22
@rizen	rocco is the guy that wrote POE	00:22
@rizen	no, it won't use it	00:22
@rizen	it will have the capability of using it	00:22
perlmonkey2	that is ........ beautiful.	00:22
@rizen	that's what i'm sayying	00:22
perlmonkey2	I'm tearing up here.	00:23
@rizen	it's pluggable	00:23
@rizen	all the way through	00:23
@rizen	don't like how something works...build your own or choose from one of the 50 other ways to make it work that someone else has already written	00:23
@rizen	incidentally...i just did a horrible job of explaining it	00:24
@rizen	mainly cuz i don't actually dive into the guts of this stuff	00:24
@rizen	i just know from benchmarks which is better	00:24
@rizen	and various technical briefs i've read	00:25
perlmonkey2	don't dive into the guts? hah, I learned POE by looking at your code. MUCH better examples than the outdated poorly maintained POE examples.	00:25
@rizen	well i know how to code for poe.. what i mean is that i haven't actually written one off the kernel plugins for poe	00:26
@rizen	like a queue manager for example	00:26
@rizen	i use poe as is	00:26
@rizen	i just rest easy knowing that i can dive in there if i need to	00:27
perlmonkey2	something that is interesting about the p6 thread plugin is that all operations on shared objects currently are atomic on POE. There is no need to synchronize access because two thread/clients can't access the object at the same time. But with the threading model, they can. Think this will be difficult for rocco to overcome?	00:28
@rizen	no idea	00:31
@rizen	he's a pretty smart guy, but kind of a recluse	00:31
@rizen	it's hard to get a read on him	00:31
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui []		00:31
perlmonkey2	In my opinion, the largest of the pitfalls you list for the pureperl stack is the multi-core issue, which the perl 6 threaded process management poe plugin will help resolve.	00:33
@rizen	i don't think it will be too big of an issue	00:34
@rizen	it's simply a matter of working with it to see what we can come up with	00:34
@rizen	poe already has a prefork system	00:34
@rizen	and inter kernel communication	00:34
@rizen	so we could just fork one instance for each core on the box	00:35
@rizen	and then have each of the processes delegate to each other using federated IKC	00:35
perlmonkey2	and IKC seems rock solid.	00:35
@rizen	but who knows if we'll even do the pure perl stack	00:36
@rizen	i'm sure there will be lots of backlash if we go that way	00:36
perlmonkey2	Well, I like the idea.	00:38
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has left #webgui []		01:00
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		01:22
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		01:25
danny_mk	rizen: Do you know which one of the developers has experience writting tests that deal with 3rd party websites?	01:30
@rizen	what do you mean 3rd party web sites?	01:31
@rizen	why are you testing 3rd party web sites?	01:31
danny_mk	specifically when setting $self->session->http->setRedirect to a foreign website	01:31
danny_mk	OpenId requires a third party to for authentication	01:32
danny_mk	the provider	01:32
@rizen	are you actually testing the remote site	01:32
@rizen	or do you just want to know that your redirect is going to the right url?	01:32
danny_mk	the OpenId module works great on my laptop (test system) however the redirect headers don't seem to hit my browser	01:33
danny_mk	from one of my servers	01:33
danny_mk	so I want to test that the redirect headers actually send the browser to the provider and then back to the WebGUI site	01:34
@rizen	setRedirect definitely works	01:34
@rizen	but if you wan tto write a test for it	01:34
@rizen	you can	01:34
@rizen	what you want to do is	01:34
@rizen	set an output handler in WebGUI::Session::Output	01:35
@rizen	so that you can call your code	01:35
danny_mk	By using Live Http headers and the $self->session->errorHandler->warn method I have noticed that it does hit the area where the headers are supposed to go to the browser	01:35
@rizen	and then catch the output coming from webgui	01:35
@rizen	to see if it's what you expect	01:35
danny_mk	however the "<meta refresh" never gets sent to the browser	01:35
@rizen	the meta refresh never should be sent to the browser	01:36
@rizen	under normal circumstances it should only send a redirect	01:36
@rizen	so you should be doing:	01:36
@rizen	$session->http->setRedirect($url);	01:36
@rizen	return 1;	01:36
@rizen	sorry	01:37
@rizen	return "redirect"	01:37
@rizen	the meta refresh only gets sent to the browser if content is returned	01:37
@rizen	it's sort of a last ditch effort in case all else fails	01:38
danny_mk	hmmm... I am a little lost. By using Live http headers I can monitor the trafic between my browser and the webserver. My browser never gets any directives that tells it to go to the provider. I must be missing something.	01:40
danny_mk	I am not saying that WebGUI is the culprit. I am just saying that something is not right.	01:40
danny_mk	I have been wrong too many times to blame WebGUI again :-)	01:40
danny_mk	LOL	01:40
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip70-189-104-178.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui		01:41
@rizen	sorry man i don't know how to help you	01:41
@rizen	i haven't really looked at your code yet	01:41
@rizen	too busy with my own code	01:42
danny_mk	no problem, I will look into it further. WebGUI has a couple good tools for troubleshooting stuff like this.	01:42
danny_mk	However, I am wondering how I will write an effective test for this module.	01:43
@rizen	that's what i was saying before	01:43
@rizen	you can trap webgui's output in a test	01:43
@rizen	you can set an output handler in $session->output	01:43
@rizen	so that it directs it back to your test	01:43
@rizen	so then you can call your code	01:43
@rizen	that has the setRedirect in it	01:43
@rizen	and you can verify that webgui has sent the appropriate data	01:43
@rizen	$session->output->setHandler	01:44
@rizen	$session->output->setHandle($handle);	01:44
@rizen	then	01:44
@rizen	$myObj->runCode;	01:44
@rizen	Then check $handle	01:45
@rizen	for the output	01:45
@rizen	get it?	01:45
danny_mk	yup. I will try that.	01:45
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		01:45
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #webgui []		02:11
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		03:12
perlmonkey2	Has anyone mixed WebGUI/Poe with Moose?	03:22
@rizen	what is moose?	03:23
perlmonkey2	moose is the Perl6 OO bolted onto Perl5.	03:24
-!- Archer [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit []		03:25
@rizen	in that case the answer is now	03:26
@rizen	no	03:26
@rizen	we're starting to migrate to Class::InsideOut	03:27
perlmonkey2	Anything beats %hashObject	03:28
@rizen	So far I like Class::InsideOut quite a bit	03:29
@rizen	i wrote the whole new WRE 0.8 API using it	03:29
@rizen	and the new Keywords API with it too	03:30
perlmonkey2	I've used the insideout oo method, but never that particular class. I'll have to check it out.	03:30
perlmonkey2	Because I have to use OO or I quickly become inable to understand my code.	03:31
@rizen	Class::InsideOut is cool because it doesn't force your module to work a certain way	03:31
@rizen	but you still get the benefits of no hash objects	03:32
@rizen	thread safety	03:32
@rizen	automatic object destruction	03:32
perlmonkey2	nice	03:32
@rizen	automatic accessors/mutators	03:32
@rizen	etc	03:32
perlmonkey2	That sounds like it does a lot of what moose does.	03:32
@rizen	it does	03:33
@rizen	i'm reading the moose docs now	03:33
@rizen	it looks pretty cool	03:33
@rizen	but it looks even more powerful than class::insideout	03:33
perlmonkey2	I don't know class::insideout , but Moose has been fun to use.	03:34
perlmonkey2	The biggest plus for me is that it is supposed to closely resemble Perl6 OOP.	03:34
@rizen	i wish i would have known about moose prior to using class inside out, but i'm afraid i'm not going to go back now	03:34
perlmonkey2	Yes, sunk costs must be recouped, especially when they are time.	03:35
@rizen	i'm already too far behind as it is	03:35
@rizen	i need a 100 hour work day	03:35
perlmonkey2	hah	03:35
perlmonkey2	Do you keep busy doing contract work, or are you the lead dev on WebGUI or do those two overlap?	03:36
perlmonkey2	But if you find out where to find those 100 hour work days, point them out to me.	03:36
@rizen	i only do contract work when we run out of contractors	03:38
@rizen	i happen to be doing a contract right now cuz one of our contractors bailed	03:38
@rizen	normally i am the only one doing R&D on WebGUI and WRE	03:39
@rizen	and then of course there's the business to run	03:39
perlmonkey2	Are all your people contractors, or are the regulars full timers?	03:40
perlmonkey2	And would the survey system be considered part of the D in R&D?	03:41
@rizen	that's true	03:42
@rizen	you're helping me with d	03:42
@rizen	so thank you	03:42
@rizen	i should say, i'm the only paid person doing r&d	03:42
@rizen	we have 9 full time staffers	03:43
perlmonkey2	holy crap. you're huge.	03:43
@rizen	and they all work on client project work	03:43
@rizen	except me	03:43
@rizen	we're tiny	03:43
perlmonkey2	seems like a pretty large operation for WebGUI only really hitting its prime in the last few years.	03:43
@rizen	beyond that we have 1 part timer, and about 30 contractors that we use on and off	03:44
@rizen	you gotta remember that webgui has been about business since day one	03:44
@rizen	unlike apps like joomla that are more concerned about your casual user	03:44
perlmonkey2	Yeah, which is what I liked about the project. A GNU project that makes money.	03:45
perlmonkey2	And focused on people making money.	03:45
@rizen	yeah...i don't want to be a charity	03:45
@rizen	i'm trying to prove that it's possible to run a healthy organic open source driven business that's both profitable	03:46
@rizen	and not artificially held up with venture capital	03:46
perlmonkey2	Sounds like you are doing alright	03:46
@rizen	we're doing pretty good, but me being a perfectionist, i think we can always do much better	03:47
@rizen	by any normal standards we're doing fantastic	03:48
@rizen	i just set really high standards for myself	03:48
@rizen	=)	03:48
perlmonkey2	Heh, all the millionaires I know were perfectionists.	03:48
perlmonkey2	But I'm glad you're doing well. Gets me excited about the survey system when I think lots of people will use it.	03:49
@rizen	oh yeah	03:51
@rizen	if it turns out really nice	03:51
@rizen	it will be used by thousands	03:51
@rizen	perhaps millions	03:51
perlmonkey2	You have millions of users?	03:51
@rizen	we have thousands of deployments	03:51
perlmonkey2	Which is pretty easy to assume millions of users.....wow	03:51
@rizen	and our clients have hundreds of thousands and some even have millions	03:51
@rizen	our largest client technically has over 1 billion users	03:52
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		03:52
perlmonkey2	Chinese .gov?	03:52
@rizen	state.gov	03:52
@rizen	all of the US Embassy web sites world wide	03:52
perlmonkey2	I thought all the code looked really tight. And it would have to be to serve the embassies which would be a prime hacker target.	03:53
@rizen	i'm slowly replacing all the code that i don't think is tight	03:54
@rizen	like the survey for example	03:54
@rizen	=)	03:54
perlmonkey2	No pressure on me	03:54
@rizen	i'm certain you'll do fine	03:55
@rizen	i honestly can't wait to see the new ajaxish editor	03:55
perlmonkey2	Yeah, it's going to be pretty sweet.	03:55
perlmonkey2	Okay, I've got to take off for a bit. Catch you later.	03:56
@rizen	bye	03:58
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit []		04:15
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip70-189-104-178.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."]		05:26
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		05:40
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		05:49
-!- Archer [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		07:00
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		07:00
-!- Archer [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		07:59
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:43
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:45
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:52
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		10:42
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		11:09
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		11:09
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]		13:36
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		14:11
-!- wgGuest77 [n=wgGuest7@serverrosa.europhd.uniroma1.it] has joined #webgui		14:42
wgGuest77	hi	14:42
wgGuest77	I have a problem upgrading	14:43
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		14:44
wgGuest77	hi	14:45
wgGuest77	can you help me?	14:45
AMH_henry	what's wrong?	14:48
wgGuest77	my update from 7.3.22 to 7.4.3 failed	14:48
AMH_henry	error messages?	14:48
wgGuest77	I installed all the required modules as written in the gotchas	14:48
wgGuest77	but the upgrade scripts outputs errors regarding JSON	14:49
wgGuest77	I did a force install in CPAN but many tests failed	14:49
AMH_henry	what operating system?	14:49
wgGuest77	now I'm trying to update CPAN	14:49
wgGuest77	latest OS X	14:49
wgGuest77	WRE 0.7.2	14:50
AMH_henry	hmm... i'm not experience with OS X.. sorry	14:50
wgGuest77	:/	14:53
AMH_henry	maybe you can try to post a quest in the forum	14:55
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has joined #webgui		15:20
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@244.sub-75-207-189.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI		15:47
-!- wgGuest77 [n=wgGuest7@serverrosa.europhd.uniroma1.it] has quit []		15:49
SDuensin	Greetings.	15:55
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		16:33
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		16:42
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		16:42
perlmonkey2	SDuensin: Hello	16:48
@rizen	howdy	16:50
SDuensin	Woke up to an insane server load and a corrupt database today. <sigh>	16:51
@rizen	yuk...on webgui server?	16:55
@rizen	corrupt as in you can just myisamchk and fix it, or as in totally destroyed?	16:55
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		16:59
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit [Client Quit]		16:59
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		17:00
SDuensin	I fixed it with mysqlcheck.	17:02
SDuensin	And yea, on a WebGUI server.	17:02
@rizen	i think you better switch to opencms	17:03
@rizen	you're not having much luck with webgui	17:03
@rizen	=)	17:03
@rizen	any indication of what happened?	17:03
SDuensin	Nope. Everything was fine last night, today I couldn't contact the box. So it got a reboot to the head.	17:04
-!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.3-beta / 7.3.22-stable \| WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc		17:04
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:19
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haaarg] by ChanServ		17:19
AMH_mari	@SDuensin: is your machine by any chance running Fedora?	17:19
SDuensin	Unfortunately.	17:21
xootom	same happened here yesterday afternoon	17:24
xootom	fc4	17:24
SDuensin	Ut oh.	17:25
AMH_mari	We had a bit of a problem with the yum update daemon some time ago. Our servers went down with zero swap space remaining. Disabling via /etc/init.d/yum-updatesd solved it.	17:25
AMH_mari	(Fedora core 6)	17:25
SDuensin	Interesting.	17:25
AMH_mari	It is some time ago and the update daemon might be fixed now. But we don't want an automated yum update anyway, so have not checked this.	17:26
SDuensin	I have an /etc/init.d/yum, and it's "off" in all runlevels.	17:27
AMH_mari	No yum-updatesd? If so run the following to turn it off: chkconfig --del yum-updatesd	17:28
SDuensin	Nope. No yum-updatesd.	17:28
SDuensin	This is FC4.	17:28
* SDuensin hates using old OSs.		17:28
AMH_mari	Aha, we're running FC6...	17:28
AMH_mari	Doesn't apply then.	17:29
SDuensin	I had a choice of FC4 or an even older Debian. Eww.	17:29
SDuensin	After I got the box rebooted, and before I fixed the database errors, I had a couple httpd processes sucking up all the RAM in the box.	17:30
SDuensin	As soon as I fixed the database, they were happy.	17:30
@rizen	yeah, the problem is definitely that your databases got corrupted	17:30
@rizen	the question is how did that happen	17:30
SDuensin	Well, in the process of poking around, I've noticed that database has a workflow that won't run.	17:31
SDuensin	Next question is, how do I safely delete it?	17:31
@rizen	the only way i've seen a table crash in mysql is if either someone killed the mysql process (hard kill, system power off), or if the filesystem is having problems	17:31
@rizen	why won't it run?	17:32
@rizen	generally speaking it's not safe to delete workflows	17:32
@rizen	which is why there's no way to do it through the UI	17:32
SDuensin	I think it hates me. That's why it won't run.	17:35
SDuensin	What was the curl command to get the error?	17:35
@rizen	curl http://www.example.com/?op=getSpectreConfig	17:43
@rizen	is that what you're looking for?	17:43
@rizen	oops	17:44
@rizen	curl http://www.example.com/?op=spectreGetSiteData	17:44
@rizen	and then you can also run individual workflows	17:44
@rizen	curl http://www.example.com/?op=runWorkflow;instanceId=XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX	17:45
@rizen	but you need to escape the ;	17:45
@rizen	otherwise the commmand line interprets it as a seperate command	17:45
@rizen	curl http://www.example.com/?op=runWorkflow\;instanceId=XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX	17:46
xootom	the userImport.pl script seems to have ignored my userId column and has given each user a random gui, to try the import again am i safe just removing these records (1773 of them) from users and userProfileData?	17:50
xootom	or even just updating the userId column with sql, i want userId to be = username	17:51
@rizen	userId must be a 22 character string	17:52
@rizen	or an integer	17:52
@rizen	so userId cannot = username	17:52
xootom	the usernames are all integers, they need to link to records in other tables based on userId	17:52
@rizen	userId must be an integer less than 3 digits	17:53
xootom	oh no :(	17:53
@rizen	sorry less than 5 digits	17:53
xootom	ah that's ok they're 3 and 4	17:53
@rizen	i should also note that at some point userId's will be 100% replaced with guids	17:53
@rizen	that will be a long time from now (2009 or 2010)	17:54
@rizen	but you should not set your own userIds	17:54
xootom	hmm i wonder if i can replace the ids in the other tables with the new guids instead	17:54
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		17:54
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		17:54
@rizen	it's not safe to update the userId column	17:54
@rizen	you can either delete them	17:54
@rizen	but make sure you delete them everywhere	17:54
@rizen	users	17:54
@rizen	userSession	17:55
@rizen	groupings	17:55
@rizen	userProfileData	17:55
xootom	i'll leave them there then, and find the new userId for each username to put in other tables	17:55
@rizen	or use the API to delete them	17:55
SDuensin	Sorry. I was AFK. Dang real work.	17:56
SDuensin	rizen - I get a "Problem with Request" and then the main page of the site.	18:00
-!- chris77 [n=ctam@201.211.200.19] has joined #webgui		18:03
chris77	Hello. How do I change the site logo?	18:03
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:07
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:08
@rizen	SD: check the webgui.log	18:08
@rizen	and if there's nothing there check the modperl log	18:08
@rizen	chris77: you upload a new logo to your site, and then edit your style template	18:09
@rizen	to point to the new log	18:09
@rizen	logo	18:09
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has left #webgui []		18:49
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		18:50
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has joined #webgui		18:53
-!- wgGuest73 [i=fiddur@c042.rit.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		18:54
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		19:08
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		19:08
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		19:30
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@tintangel.cdl.edu] has joined #webgui		19:30
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@tintangel.cdl.edu] has quit [Client Quit]		19:30
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@tintangel.cdl.edu] has joined #webgui		19:33
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		19:33
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		19:33
sno	Has anyone else observed calendar events being placed on the wrong date (one day before) in 7.4?	19:40
sno	I have (beta) right now, in case that matters.	19:41
@preaction	when using recurrence? yes	19:42
@preaction	graham has a fix for that, but it's a pretty sweeping fix that may not make it in for a bit	19:42
sno	My event editor doesn't have a recurrence form element in it.	19:43
@preaction	so you're not setting the event's recurrence pattern?	19:44
sno	Apparently not. I see the tab, but I just ignore it.	19:45
sno	And even if I make sure "all day" is clicked, it still reverts to a seemingly arbitrary time range for the day before.	19:46
@preaction	using the latest beta? 7.4.3?	19:46
sno	No, because I'm developing, I had gotten 7.4.0 and have changes against it.	19:47
-!- chris77 [n=ctam@201.211.200.19] has left #webgui []		19:48
sno	I have been working on this part of the system, but because I though I broke something, I reverted to base code and the problem still appeared.	19:48
sno	I was thinking it was a TZ conversion thing, but I don't know.	19:49
@preaction	you might want to update and see if it still happens	19:49
@preaction	if so, you might want to post a bug report about it	19:49
sno	Yeah, unfortunately it directly affects work I'm doing on a live project for Jamie.	19:50
sno	I guess I'll save all my changes, fire up a virgin virtual instance of this development system, update the version, and see if it still exists.	19:51
@preaction	check out the contribs area, under "misc" for my "switch_webgui.pl", makes switching between WebGUI codebases a lot easier	19:52
sno	I would have thought other reports might have come in, but perhaps people who work on beta don't necessary work on this part of the system.	19:52
sno	Ok.	19:52
@preaction	i should make a wiki article about it, so many developers need to do this ;)	19:52
SDuensin	Ok, I'm finally back. Sheesh.	20:20
SDuensin	My log for that workflow says:	20:20
SDuensin	2007/08/16 02:15:49 - ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1013] - WORKFLOW: Something bad happened on the return of I9dEiqSxDBZfdAXyDTdx9g.	20:20
@rizen	turn on INFO	20:21
@rizen	then rerun	20:21
SDuensin	Say who?	20:23
@rizen	edit log.conf	20:23
@rizen	replace WARN with INFO	20:23
@rizen	restart	20:23
@rizen	rerun the command	20:23
@rizen	check your log	20:24
SDuensin	Ah. Ok.	20:24
SDuensin	Ok, I see a couple things...	20:28
SDuensin	Couldn't execute prepared statement: select fieldId from EventManagementSystem_badges where assetId=? : With place holders: ZhySQGg0jEHIhPwhTvg7pg. Root cause: Unknown column 'fieldId' in 'field list'	20:28
SDuensin	That's the only one marked FATAL.	20:28
@rizen	well that's a problem	20:31
@rizen	cuz that means that you either upgraded your source	20:31
@rizen	without upgrading your database	20:31
@rizen	or you didn't restart apache after an upgrade	20:31
@rizen	or your upgrade failed	20:31
@rizen	cuz that field should be in there	20:32
SDuensin	Ut oh.	20:32
SDuensin	Should I just panic now? Or skip straight to the pathetic weeping?	20:33
@rizen	oh wait	20:33
@rizen	fieldId shouldn't be in that table	20:33
@rizen	what workflow activity was it running when you got that?	20:34
SDuensin	Running workflow activity pbwfactivity0000000010, which is a WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::PurgeOldTrash, for instance I9dEiqSxDBZfdAXyDTdx9g.	20:34
@rizen	ah, ok that's a bug	20:35
@rizen	do this	20:35
@rizen	edit EventManagementSystem.pm	20:35
@rizen	line 1083	20:35
@rizen	change fieldId to badgeId	20:35
@rizen	now you should restart and that workflow will run	20:37
@rizen	fixed in 7.4.4	20:38
SDuensin	In /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/EventManagementSystem.pm ?	20:38
@rizen	yes	20:38
SDuensin	Not seeing it on that line. Searching.	20:39
@rizen	look in the purge() method	20:39
@rizen	i was looking at subversion	20:39
@rizen	your version might be different	20:39
@rizen	it's toward the end of the purge method	20:40
SDuensin	I see it. Changing.	20:40
SDuensin	Nice. Thanks!	20:42
@rizen	you have mistaken my assistance as a magnanimous deed, however muddled the intent, it was in fact just a defect in need of rectification	20:48
SDuensin	That's OK. I knew you were defective before I asked.	20:49
+MrHairgrease	In the end it's all Koens fault	20:50
SDuensin	As long as it's not mine. :-)	20:50
@rizen	i've made the decision that the etymology of my speech is indigent and requires more opacity to eliminate queries from the unwashed masses	20:51
@preaction	methinks this dictatorship is in desperate requirement of transfiguration into an oligarchy	20:52
@rizen	precisely	20:52
+MrHairgrease	I wonder what the origin the word etymology is =)	20:53
@preaction	indubiably	20:53
@rizen	i'm testing new quotes to go in my email signature. which do you like better	21:04
@rizen	Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.	21:04
@rizen	or	21:04
@rizen	In life you have to do a lot of things you don't fucking want to do. Many times, that's what the fuck life is... one vile fucking task after another.	21:04
@rizen	if only	21:05
@rizen	sometimes representing a business sucks	21:05
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		21:05
@rizen	cuz you can't put stuff like that in your sig	21:05
SDuensin	Bah. Joke 'em if they can't take a fuck.	21:06
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui		21:11
perlmonkey2	OpenCMS doesn't seem to have many features.	21:33
SDuensin	That's why he told me to run it - not as much for me to break!	21:34
@rizen	that and it's java based, so you can use it with zkdesktop	21:35
@rizen	also, if you believe the picture on the front page	21:36
@rizen	you'll laugh and have a good old time every time you use open cms	21:37
@rizen	http://www.opencms.org/en/index.html	21:37
@preaction	<3 generic pictures of people using computers on software websites	21:38
SDuensin	rizen, you guys should use some of the generic hot-women-borderline-porn photos for ads. It's mostly men installing this thing anyway. :-P	21:41
@rizen	yeah, but we have lots of churches and schools as clients	21:42
@rizen	don't think that will go over very well	21:42
SDuensin	Well, give her a rosery and a ruler.	21:42
-!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		21:46
perlmonkey2	SDuensin++	22:15
danny_mk	rizen: do you know who wrote this sub: http://pastebin.ca/652879 ?	22:37
@rizen	looks like colin's code but i can't be sure	22:38
@rizen	colin	22:38
@rizen	colin = perlDreamer	22:38
danny_mk	ok, thanks	22:47
@preaction	no, that's mine	23:07
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has left #webgui []		23:17
danny_mk	alright preaction, are you still around?	23:18
danny_mk	nice function by the way, works great.	23:19
@preaction	yeah	23:20
danny_mk	By the way is colin the same colin that worked on Scoop a while back?	23:20
@preaction	dunno	23:20
danny_mk	I am trying to write a test for the OpenId module. However, the way OpenId works is by using a remote site to authenticate your URI	23:22
danny_mk	so webgui redirects a request to "x" webstie then on return I parse a couple of the params and do another round trip	23:23
danny_mk	So far your function and the few tests I have written work great. However, I will still need to see the stuff coming back from the remote site.	23:24
@preaction	you're going to have to make assumptions about the stuff coming back, and test all possibilities	23:25
@preaction	(within limits, of course)	23:25
@preaction	there should be a subroutine in your module that takes the stuff coming back from the remote site and says "yay" or "ney" or whatever it needs to, so you can fashion some responses and test the sub with that	23:25
@preaction	if later we find bugs with the way some providers return responses to the module, we can add cases in the test	23:26
@preaction	what do you think it would take to add Yadis support to your OpenID module?	23:28
@preaction	or, if implementing yadis, wouldn't we need to implement LID or TypeKey as well?	23:28
danny_mk	are you available by phone?	23:28
@preaction	not currently, skype is down	23:28
danny_mk	I can add that stuff later on, after I get these tests written	23:29
danny_mk	the module works great on my test site (my notebook) however I installed it on one of my servers and something is not happening so I want to get these test done first	23:29
danny_mk	have you ever done this: $http->send(http://whatever.com); print $http->response();	23:30
danny_mk	not specific to the WebGUI api	23:31
@preaction	using LWP?	23:32
danny_mk	sure	23:32
@preaction	yes	23:32
danny_mk	can I make an assumption that if I write a test using LWP any WebGUI host will be able to support such a test?	23:33
@preaction	WebGUI requires LWP, yes	23:34
danny_mk	ok, that is what I will use.	23:35
danny_mk	I will get input later on Yadis, let me get these tests done first.	23:35
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@244.sub-75-207-189.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		23:51
danny_mk	Well, it looks like a real test will not work. Duuring an OpenId conversation the consumer must login to the Provider website	23:58
danny_mk	Then the URI owner must approve the website. I don't think this can be done through a test script.	23:59
--- Day changed Fri Aug 17 2007
danny_mk	I think I am going to have to leave the Provider/Consumer conversation out of the tests.	00:01
-!- khenn_ [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		00:28
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		00:28
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]		00:37
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip70-189-104-178.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui		01:09
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		01:26
perlmonkey2	testEvn says I'm missing Graphics::Magick but cpan doens't have that listed. Is that the imagemagick module?	01:29
+MrHairgrease	no	01:29
SDuensin	ReHi	01:29
+MrHairgrease	installing graphicsmagick will also install the perl module	01:29
perlmonkey2	cool	01:29
+MrHairgrease	if your using the wre	01:30
+MrHairgrease	be sure to set the --prefix and --with-perl options on ./configure	01:30
+MrHairgrease	or else it will add it to your system perl	01:30
perlmonkey2	fedora rpm's. the perl bindings come as a seperate rpm	01:30
+MrHairgrease	ok	01:31
+MrHairgrease	install those	01:31
+MrHairgrease	and you'll be fine	01:31
+MrHairgrease	you aren't using the wre right?	01:31
perlmonkey2	Nope, this is a dev install from subversion. I don't need the libs, but saw that testenv had been updated so I ran it.	01:31
+MrHairgrease	ok	01:32
+MrHairgrease	just making sure	01:32
+MrHairgrease	=)	01:32
perlmonkey2	thank :)	01:32
-!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrN00b		01:33
* MrN00b just forgot to use strict		01:33
-!- MrN00b is now known as MrHaigrease		01:33
perlmonkey2	If your name was Mr1337 you wouldn't need strict :P	01:36
+MrHaigrease	using strict is very leet	01:36
+MrHaigrease	even the l33tout asset uses it	01:37
perlmonkey2	hah	01:38
-!- MrHaigrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []		02:01
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@tintangel.cdl.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		03:24
-!- Haaarg [n=haarg@24-177-123-127.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		03:54
-!- knowmad [n=william@adsl-074-170-007-083.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #webgui		04:03
-!- knowmad [n=william@adsl-074-170-007-083.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has left #webgui []		04:04
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip70-189-104-178.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #webgui []		06:42
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:36
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		09:45
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		10:07
pjesi	is there any solution to https://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/cache-issues ?	11:53
-!- sweet18f [i=humph@195.158.118.53] has joined #webgui		12:29
sweet18f	hi i'm having this error: ERROR - www.domain.com.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::error[183] - The notFound page could not be instanciated! any one can help ?	12:29
-!- sweet18f is now known as Leon		12:30
Leon	no one ?	12:31
AMH_henry	what did you specified as notFound page in settings?	12:32
Leon	default	12:32
AMH_henry	that page is accessible?	12:33
Leon	well.. it was	12:33
Leon	now it isn't	12:34
AMH_henry	try http://... to it and look for error messages	12:34
Leon	Internal Server Error	12:35
AMH_henry	any thing in webgui log?	12:36
AMH_henry	/var/log/webgui.log	12:36
Leon	the one i pasted	12:36
Leon	ERROR - www.domain.com.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::error[183] - The notFound page could not be instanciated!	12:36
-!- ifireball [n=ifirebal@84.229.65.248] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]		12:36
AMH_henry	did you make any changes to the default page?	12:37
Leon	shit it seems like it was deleted..	12:39
Leon	i can access another page but not the default one	12:39
Leon	why i'm creating a page called home and its being renamed to home1 etc ?	12:43
AMH_henry	maybe there is already another one called home. It could be still in the trashcan	12:43
Leon	no it isn't	12:44
AMH_henry	not even in system trashcan	12:44
AMH_henry	in case someone else deleted it	12:45
Leon	where is the system trashcan	12:45
Leon	?	12:45
AMH_henry	it's in one of the sub-menu� s on the right	12:45
Leon	it isn't there too	12:48
Leon	any other ideas ?	12:56
AMH_henry	what's the url of your site?	12:58
Leon	www2,terrasanagroup.com	12:59
AMH_henry	it cannot display any page at all?	12:59
Leon	no i can see all other pages	13:00
Leon	axcept home	13:00
Leon	http://www2.terrasanagroup.com/userarea	13:00
AMH_henry	does this work? http://www2.terrasanagroup.com/home?func=edit	13:01
Leon	nope	13:02
Leon	is there a way to solve this ?	13:03
AMH_henry	try changing the default home page to something else in settings	13:04
AMH_henry	at least you can get a home page that way	13:04
Leon	is there any kind of page tree to view all pages ?	13:07
AMH_henry	Assets in Admin Console?	13:07
AMH_henry	or you can create a navigation asset i guess	13:08
Leon	why root is not accesable ? mah :/ i'm getting confused	13:08
AMH_henry	did you login as admin?	13:09
Leon	yep	13:09
Leon	i'm getting a blank page	13:09
AMH_henry	try adding ?func=manageAssets	13:10
Leon	http://www2.terrasanagroup.com/root?func=manageAssets	13:10
Leon	blank page	13:10
AMH_henry	weird.... can you do manageAssets on other pages?	13:12
Leon	yes	13:12
Leon	i can't even change the default page from the settings as i can't go into root	13:14
AMH_henry	you don't need to go into root to change page. you can do that in Show Admin Console and then Settings	13:15
Leon	yeah i know	13:16
Leon	but as default its Root	13:16
Leon	i can't write to it.. so i'll have to press .... button	13:16
Leon	and to select the page i need to go into the root folder to select a page	13:16
AMH_henry	ic... weird	13:18
AMH_henry	any error messages in webgui.log when you access /root?	13:19
Leon	WARN - www.terrasanagroup.com.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::warn[430] - Visitor (1) connecting from 209.62.91.100 attempted to make a Spectre workflow runner request, but we're only allowed to accept requests from 209.62.91.100/32,127.0.0.1/32.	13:21
Leon	WARN - www.terrasanagroup.com.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::warn[430] - Couldn't call method view on asset for url: root Root cause: Can't call method "getUrl" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 229	13:23
AMH_henry	you can try putting the site in debug mode .. it might get more info	13:24
Leon	how can i do that ?	13:24
AMH_henry	in Settings	13:24
AMH_henry	then misc. (or something like that) then show debug info	13:25
AMH_henry	any luck?	13:31
Leon	nope..	13:34
Leon	i'm trying to search in the database for the home	13:35
Leon	status was pending for home..	13:36
Leon	does that mean something	13:36
Leon	i changed it from pending to approved.. now i can see it	13:38
Leon	but the pages are locked	13:38
Leon	sorry the home page is locked and even the articles in it	13:38
Leon	most of the articles in the website are locked	13:41
AMH_henry	is spectre running?	14:03
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		14:03
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		14:28
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		14:28
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@112.sub-75-207-104.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI		15:37
SDuensin	Morning.	15:39
AMH_henry	good morning!	15:39
+MrHairgrease	afternoon	15:39
pjesi	morning	15:49
pjesi	anyone having problems with syndicated content?	15:50
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip68-97-51-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui		16:05
-!- Leon [i=humph@195.158.118.53] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		16:17
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui		16:43
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		17:08
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ		17:08
-!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		17:47
-!- AMH_mari [n=AMH_mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:10
-!- AMH_henry [n=Henry@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		18:10
-!- ftorque [n=max@62-101-118-154.fastres.net] has joined #webgui		18:19
ftorque	hi	18:19
ftorque	I'm having a problem with CPAN	18:21
SynQ	hi	18:22
@Haarg	what kind of problems?	18:22
SynQ	CPAN?	18:22
SynQ	my CPAN is working just fine	18:22
ftorque	It won't install config::JSON http://paste.biz/paste-2660.html	18:23
SynQ	that is odd\	18:23
SynQ	did you use the --force --all options?	18:23
ftorque	yes I did a force install Config::JSON	18:23
ftorque	and then answered yes to the append all prerequisites question	18:24
ftorque	should I use install Config::JSON --force --all options ?	18:25
@Haarg	it won't work	18:25
@Haarg	version isn't installing	18:25
@Haarg	which is a prerequisite	18:26
SynQ	are you using a mac?	18:26
ftorque	yes with WRE 0.7.2	18:26
SynQ	I don't know anything about a mac	18:26
SynQ	sorry	18:27
-!- dodo__ [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui		18:27
SDuensin	Did you . ./setenvironment before running cpan?	18:27
ftorque	Haarg: I answered yes to the prerequisites question.. But maybe there's a bug in CPAN?	18:27
@Haarg	it's not a bug	18:27
@Haarg	it's failing to compile	18:27
ftorque	well the paths seems to be correct.. /data/wre/prereqs/perl	18:27
@Haarg	which i'm not sure about	18:27
@Haarg	but you can install the pure perl version	18:28
ftorque	so if I do a force install ExtUtils::MakeMaker::_version it won't work anyway?	18:28
@Haarg	yeah	18:28
@Haarg	do 'look version'	18:28
ftorque	Sduensin: I actually called /data/wre/prereqs/perl/bin/cpan	18:28
@Haarg	then run 'perl Makefile.PL --perl_only'	18:29
@Haarg	then make, make test, make install	18:29
SDuensin	ftorque - Yea, but I think it still needs that set so it knows which Perl and such to use.	18:29
ftorque	SDuensin: but as you can see the paths seems to be correct here.. http://paste.biz/paste-2660.html	18:30
@Haarg	you should be using setenvironment or running /data/wre/sbin/cpan	18:30
@Haarg	but i'm not sure that will fix this	18:31
ftorque	Haarg: I just type "look version" in cpan?	18:31
@Haarg	yeah	18:31
ftorque	ok now I'm calling /data/wre/sbin/cpan	18:32
ftorque	running manual cpan setup again....	18:33
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has left #webgui []		18:34
ftorque	ok look version finished	18:35
-!- dodo__ [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit ["[BX] Pretzel Boy uses BitchX. Shouldn't you?"]		18:35
ftorque	ok it installed correctly	18:37
@Haarg	Config::JSON should install properly now	18:38
ftorque	woha let's hope	18:38
ftorque	there are lots of dependencies I'm answering yes to all...	18:41
ftorque	yeah it passed the final tests and install went OK it seems!	18:47
ftorque	woha now update to 7.4.3 went ok!!	18:56
ftorque	Thank you so much Haarg!	18:56
ftorque	but the script gave a dozen of !!! Could not fix graph configuration for assetId etc.	18:57
@Haarg	did you switch platforms at some point?	18:57
ftorque	yes I was the one affected by the Storable problem	18:58
@Haarg	yeah, there's not really anything you can do about that.	18:58
@Haarg	unless you went back the the old platform and did the upgrade there.	18:58
@Haarg	but then any newer ones you created wouldn't work	18:59
ftorque	but it does affect just the graphs I hope... That "WARNING: If you saw any errors in the output during upgrade restore immediately" phrase is a bit scary :)	18:59
@Haarg	yeah, it should only effect those graphs	19:01
@preaction	i suppose i should've explicitly called it a "warning" instead of a !!!	19:01
ftorque	damnit I still can't enable the pie chart because of the libPNG problem :(	19:01
ftorque	ah ok so I shouldn't worry preaction	19:02
@preaction	no, it just means that the script couldn't parse the configuration (meaning you were affected by the bug)	19:02
ftorque	which is fixed in WRE 0.8.0 I read... Do you know when that will be out?	19:02
ftorque	ok	19:02
@preaction	JT's been trucking on it, and it looks insanely awesome, but no ETA that I know of	19:02
ftorque	actually cap10morgan posted a fix... Perhaps could you help me install that in the WRE 0.7.2? :) http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/libpng-doesnt-build-on-os-x-intel	19:03
@preaction	if you don't feel qualified to do this, it's not exactly something trivial	19:04
@preaction	you'd need to download the WRE source, download the updated libpng source, apply those two patches, and then compile libpng and imagemagick	19:05
-!- perlbot [n=perlbot@lv.pm.org] has quit [Excess Flood]		19:05
-!- perlbot [n=perlbot@lv.pm.org] has joined #webgui		19:05
ftorque	I read you transitioned to GraphicsMagick.. Does it still need LibPNG?	19:06
@preaction	probably, but the WRE 0.8.0 will have updated to a version of libpng that works	19:06
ftorque	yeah	19:07
ftorque	I have to go. Later!	19:19
-!- ftorque [n=max@62-101-118-154.fastres.net] has quit []		19:19
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		19:29
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip68-97-51-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."]		19:40
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has joined #webgui		19:40
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #webgui		19:44
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has quit ["Leaving."]		20:24
sno	Hi preaction	20:42
sno	I've posted a bug report on the calender events issue and what I did to cause it to happen on a demo site.	20:42
sno	I'll also be talking to you about the Calendar system in general as I make modifications to Events.	20:43
sno	If Haarg is around, he's the one who has posted Qs about my report.	20:45
sno	I have updated the report.	20:45
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip68-97-51-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui		20:53
-!- jarcher [n=jarcher@64-142-95-111.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit []		20:58
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@112.sub-75-207-104.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		23:50
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip68-97-51-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."]		23:58
--- Day changed Sat Aug 18 2007
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui		00:03
-!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ		00:03
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui []		00:05
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]		00:12
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		00:23
SynQ	hey, where did the versions in the plainblack wiki go?	00:40
@rizen	what do you mean, they're still there	00:41
SynQ	now I'm stuck with the 'JRA version' of /community-wiki/wre-installation and I want to use the JT version of it for /community-wiki/wre-0.7.2-on-ubuntu-server-edition-7.04-feisty	00:41
SynQ	I don't see the 'versions' tab any longer	00:41
@rizen	it doesn't say versions, it says "history"	00:41
@rizen	but you should still see it	00:41
SynQ	or does it have to do with the epiphany browser	00:41
SynQ	hmm	00:41
@rizen	as long as your browser is YUI compatible	00:41
SynQ	:)	00:42
SynQ	lets see if iceweasel does a better job	00:42
SynQ	ah	00:43
SynQ	that helps	00:43
SynQ	now I do indeed see the 'history' tab again	00:43
@rizen	whats with you and crazy browsers?	00:43
SynQ	JT: do you know if sourceforge allows for 500MB+ files?	00:43
@rizen	why not just use firefox?	00:44
@rizen	yes	00:44
SynQ	I installed debian etch yesterday	00:44
@rizen	i know it allows over 500mb	00:44
@rizen	i don't know how much over	00:44
@rizen	but i've downloaded isos from there	00:44
SynQ	I'm having a great time with KVM	00:44
@rizen	so it must allow up to about 600mb	00:44
SynQ	I'll try and get a 'webgui wre pre-installed' image done this weekend	00:44
@rizen	what is kvm?	00:45
SynQ	kvm is qemu with amd-v or intel-vt support	00:45
@rizen	i'm almost done with the new WRE, just trying to work out the final kinks	00:45
SynQ	using the virtualisation stuff	00:45
@rizen	then i'll start compiling it for various platforms	00:45
SynQ	oh	00:45
SynQ	can I help?	00:45
SynQ	and debug them	00:45
@rizen	with the compiling yes	00:45
SynQ	once you've compiled some	00:46
SynQ	compiling is fine too	00:46
@rizen	oh debugging too	00:46
SynQ	ProcoliX has ordered some kick-ass hardware	00:46
@rizen	but i need to make sure it works from my point of view before i give it to other people	00:46
@rizen	if i can't even make it work	00:46
SynQ	:)	00:46
@rizen	you definitely won't	00:46
@rizen	=)	00:46
SynQ	sure you can	00:46
SynQ	if you can't, just blame it on me :)	00:46
@rizen	the new API is going to be marvelous for automated provisioning	00:46
SynQ	that sounds great	00:47
SynQ	gimme gimme	00:47
SynQ	I talked to Arjen today	00:47
@rizen	so you're all for the stable/unstable branch thing eh?	00:47
@rizen	oh yeah, what did he have to say?	00:47
SynQ	and I promised Bart that next year we'll go to the wuc again	00:47
@rizen	next year!	00:47
SynQ	he was visiting Oqapi	00:47
SynQ	yups	00:47
SynQ	next year!	00:47
@rizen	what makes you think we'll even have one next year	00:47
SynQ	I can just feel it	00:48
@rizen	hehe	00:48
SynQ	and yes I am all for the stable/unstable branch thing	00:48
@rizen	we basically have to break even from year to year in order to have the next year	00:48
SynQ	what's more, I'm sending Bart to a perl-course	00:48
@rizen	now that i've heard all those people say they are for it	00:49
@rizen	i'm going to definitely not do it	00:49
SynQ	huh	00:49
@rizen	i can't give the people what they want	00:49
SynQ	why not?	00:49
SynQ	ah	00:49
@rizen	that wouldn't be very JTish	00:49
@rizen	SynQ is the man of the people, not rizen	00:49
SynQ	maybe I'll have to USE more EMPHASIS on all my important WORDS then. >:)	00:49
@rizen	hehe	00:49
SynQ	in JRA style	00:49
@rizen	or just drink more coffee	00:50
SynQ	get more sleep	00:50
@rizen	everything is better with more coffee	00:50
@rizen	or should i say more caffine	00:50
SynQ	my wife says hi	00:50
-!- perlbot [n=perlbot@lv.pm.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		00:51
SynQ	you want to know about the kick-ass hardware?	00:51
@rizen	sure	00:51
@rizen	hi back	00:51
SynQ	It's blades	00:51
@rizen	and shouldn't you be in bed?	00:51
@rizen	it's got to be midnight or later there	00:52
SynQ	two chassis with 6 dual processor quad core xeon's with each blade 16Gb of ram	00:52
SynQ	its 8 to midnight	00:52
@rizen	16GB?	00:52
SynQ	sure	00:52
@rizen	8 cores?	00:53
@rizen	that's huge	00:53
SynQ	indeed	00:53
@rizen	this is for webgui?	00:53
@rizen	or something else?	00:53
SynQ	it's only the beginning	00:53
SynQ	it's for more sleep and less worries	00:53
SynQ	using virtual machines for everything	00:53
SynQ	and cluster technologies	00:53
SynQ	but yes, we are going to run WebGUI on it too	00:54
@rizen	i find that going much further than dual xeon with 2gig of ram is a waste for webgui unless you use a san with each machine	00:54
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip68-97-51-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui		00:54
@rizen	cuz you run into spindle speed problems	00:54
SynQ	I have to help make the bed, be back in a jiffy	00:54
SynQ	vm's are going to have max 1Gb	00:54
SynQ	and yes we are going to get a SAN or SAN-like solution too	00:55
@rizen	let me know what you go with on that front, cuz i'm looking for new storage technologies and techniques	00:55
perlmonkey2	me too	00:56
SynQ	can I post it on the dev-list?	00:57
perlmonkey2	Coraid has AoE, looks like you can do 24Tb for about $7k using WD 1Tb SATAs	00:57
@rizen	you can put whatever you want on the dev list	00:58
@rizen	especially porn	00:58
SynQ	oeh	01:04
SynQ	hardware porn	01:04
SynQ	perlmonkey2: it's not the size that matters	01:06
SynQ	and WD 1Tb SATA's are dead slow	01:06
SynQ	we now have a 16 disk 500Gb setup with an areca raid controller for backups	01:07
SynQ	but that is not what you want for SAN	01:07
perlmonkey2	A SAS SAN just seems like an incredible waste of money. Is the performance increase worth it?	01:08
SynQ	I don't know, that depends on the setup I guess	01:08
SynQ	what I'm looking for is a good combination of maintainability with performance	01:09
perlmonkey2	Tom's had WD rated faster than the 750 barracudas....but then the barracudas aren't that fast either.	01:09
SynQ	In short, a system that just always works	01:09
perlmonkey2	hah, good luck with that.	01:09
SynQ	thanks, I'll need it	01:09
SynQ	:)	01:09
SynQ	I think the trick will be done by spending a lot of money on it	01:10
SynQ	we are also in the process of negotiating about a dual datacenter setup	01:10
perlmonkey2	SynQ: Yes, high performance SAN's seem to start at about 30K just to get into the game.	01:10
SynQ	the blades I just ordered are also in that ballpark	01:11
perlmonkey2	I'll stick with my slow 24TB for $7K Ata/ethernet :)	01:11
SynQ	what raid controllers are in that system?	01:12
perlmonkey2	I couldn't make blades make sense for our systems. Just cheaper to build power workstations.	01:13
perlmonkey2	Coraid has their own controllers....doesn't say who they use.	01:13
perlmonkey2	Their "Advanced RAID Controller" uses "Coraid's RAIDShield(TM)". Hmm....sounds kind of fishy to me.	01:14
SynQ	it does	01:14
SynQ	for us blades make sense since they are cheaper then employees are	01:15
SynQ	and they promise less hardware fiddlin'	01:15
perlmonkey2	That makes cents to me :)	01:15
perlmonkey2	But I'm a one man show, and I need to squeeze as much cpu power as I can out of each dollar. Plus the uni picks up the air conditioning and electricty tab on our closet.	01:16
SynQ	you have no girlfriend/wife?	01:18
perlmonkey2	me?	01:18
* SynQ looks around		01:19
SynQ	yes, you! :)	01:19
perlmonkey2	What makes you think that?	01:19
* perlmonkey2 is curious		01:19
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer]		01:19
SynQ	maintaining boxes costs us a lot of time, time that is better spent on finding out better software configurations	01:19
SynQ	plus, our data-center bill is +3000 euro's a month now	01:20
SynQ	if I wasn't married I'd spend a lot more time on my job	01:20
SynQ	and even now I've just been asked to 'get away from the computer and come to bed please'	01:21
perlmonkey2	I'm trying to figure out how to find another job, where I can telecommute. I work waaaaay too much at this one.	01:21
perlmonkey2	hah	01:21
SynQ	its half past midnight here	01:21
perlmonkey2	SynQ, our grant sponsor makes that arguement all the time about hardware being cheaper than my time or any employee. But it just pains me to buy expensive Dell/IBM when I don't really believe it saves configuration time.	01:22
perlmonkey2	But it sounds late there. Perhaps your wife has a point :)	01:22
SynQ	I've bought supermicro blade servers, they were not that expensive as dell or ibm or hp blade servers	01:23
SynQ	I'm not done drinking my beer yet	01:23
perlmonkey2	heh	01:23
SynQ	since I only drink during the weekends lately I'm now enjoying the start of the weekend	01:24
SynQ	with a nice belgian one	01:24
SynQ	and I haven't finished it yet	01:25
perlmonkey2	Hmm....these supermicro's come in dual-proc quad core.....so far so good.	01:25
SynQ	jt: I think you should photoshop a feather on yungs 'the people behind webgui' photo	01:25
SynQ	16Gb per blade is the best bang for the buck	01:26
SynQ	and then we are going to run KVM on it	01:26
SynQ	which is a vm software thing just like xen or vmware	01:27
@rizen	what do you mean "photoshop feather"	01:27
@rizen	you mean edit the image to put a feather in it?	01:27
SynQ	that :)	01:28
SynQ	the webgui indian	01:28
@rizen	to make him look native american?	01:28
SynQ	that is a very politically correct word for it yes	01:28
SynQ	not very JT-ish	01:29
SynQ	damn, I wish I could come to the wuc	01:29
SynQ	just for the 'stump the chump' sessions	01:29
@rizen	why can't you?	01:31
@rizen	it would be great to see you. it's been a couple years	01:31
SynQ	It's quite expensive	01:31
@rizen	i think the last time was when i came to holland, wasn't it?	01:31
SynQ	I've just spent all the money on servers ;)	01:32
@rizen	that's true...but it's worth it to see me	01:32
SynQ	you are probably right	01:32
@rizen	=)	01:32
SynQ	as allways	01:32
@rizen	besides, if you want to save a few bucks, you can stay at my house	01:32
SynQ	but last time in vegas I was a bit sick all the time	01:32
@rizen	it's only about 4 blocks from the hotel	01:32
SynQ	hmmm, tempting	01:32
@rizen	i'm not staying at the hotel this year either for the first time in wuc history	01:33
SynQ	what is the value of one karma point on the plainblack site?	01:33
@rizen	since it's so close	01:33
@rizen	you mean a $ value?	01:33
@rizen	it doesn't have one	01:33
SynQ	no, I mean how many nights can I stay at your house for x karma points?	01:34
@rizen	hehe	01:34
@rizen	you can stay at my house for as many nights as you're stateside	01:34
SynQ	now that would be great value	01:34
@rizen	no karma required	01:34
SynQ	hmm	01:34
SynQ	damn, you are making it hard for me	01:35
SynQ	I'll reconsider this week	01:35
@rizen	if bart will sleep on the couch, he can stay too	01:35
SynQ	recalculate :)	01:35
SynQ	ah	01:35
@rizen	i only have one spare bedroom	01:35
SynQ	bart is getting his driving license soon (I hope)	01:35
@rizen	sarah and i are in one, you get the other, and bart can stay on one of our two couches	01:35
SynQ	I'll discuss it with Bart on monday	01:36
@rizen	he doesn't have one?	01:36
SynQ	nope	01:36
SynQ	but he will have soon	01:36
SynQ	and he's loving it	01:36
SynQ	driving	01:36
@rizen	then he can drive your car like a crazy person...similar to you	01:36
SynQ	oeh	01:36
SynQ	I hope not	01:36
SynQ	with the 4,4 litre V8	01:36
SynQ	it's very delicate to drive, my car, before you know it you are driving 200 miles an hour	01:37
SynQ	it's a racing machine	01:37
SynQ	BMW 540i touring	01:37
SynQ	but hey, let's not talk about cars	01:38
SynQ	lets talk about that stable/development stuff	01:38
-!- Haarg [n=haarg@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]		01:38
SynQ	why wouldn't you do it? seriously	01:38
SynQ	what are the arguments against it?	01:38
SynQ	you don't want to talk about it?	01:41
@rizen	sorry	01:45
@rizen	was on phone	01:45
SynQ	ah	01:45
@rizen	i thought you were going to be?	01:45
@rizen	bed?	01:45
SynQ	I give myself 15 more minutes	01:45
@rizen	why i wouldn't do it is that it's a lot more work for us	01:45
SynQ	dunno what time it is over there	01:45
SynQ	and what day for that matter	01:46
@rizen	15 to 6pm	01:46
@rizen	friday	01:46
SynQ	ah	01:46
SynQ	7 hours early	01:46
@rizen	or 17:45 in eurospeak	01:46
SynQ	:)	01:46
SynQ	eurospeak	01:46
SynQ	and with us you mean all plainblack staff and all other developers	01:46
@rizen	anyway the only reason not to do it is that it's more work for pb	01:47
@rizen	no it's really just more for pb	01:47
SynQ	ah	01:47
@rizen	because the "more" is part of release management	01:47
@rizen	and pb does all release management	01:47
SynQ	I know	01:47
SynQ	and I think you are right	01:47
SynQ	but then again, if getting stable/development in place gets webgui on a better level that will probably also be mostly benificial to PB	01:48
@rizen	preaction has been trying to convince me to build an entirely new upgrade system that relies upon patch/diff instead of upgrade files	01:48
SynQ	preaction?	01:48
@rizen	you're right...some clients will be happier for sure, and that's beneficial to us	01:48
@rizen	preaction = doug bell = one of my programmers	01:49
SynQ	I will be a lot happier	01:49
@rizen	no offense but you're not a client	01:49
@rizen	you're a user	01:49
SynQ	:)	01:49
@rizen	big difference in my world	01:49
SynQ	didn't I just order a few books from plainblack?	01:49
@rizen	i don't know, did you?	01:49
SynQ	ProcoliX did	01:49
SynQ	they arrived in a half drowned state	01:50
SynQ	:)	01:50
@rizen	hmmm. i haven't seen that order go through..but i don't monitor it that closely anymore	01:50
SynQ	but bart is taking that up with lulu	01:50
@rizen	i was going to say, they never even touch our hands	01:50
SynQ	I'm probably going to order some more books soon	01:50
SynQ	does that make me a client?	01:50
@rizen	i suppose so	01:50
@rizen	a small one	01:50
@rizen	=)	01:50
SynQ	hehe	01:50
SynQ	would it help if I got a subscription to one of your 'small hosting' packages?	01:51
@rizen	it's sort of weighted like this for me: user / contributor / client / rockstar	01:51
SynQ	ah	01:51
SynQ	ok	01:51
@rizen	Sarah eagerly awaits your arrival	01:52
@rizen	and she humbly requests you bring your wife	01:53
@rizen	=)	01:53
SynQ	so a client that pays pb 20 a month is more important than a contributor?	01:53
SynQ	uh	01:53
SynQ	bring my wife	01:53
SynQ	hmm	01:53
SynQ	good idea	01:54
SynQ	I'll ask her	01:54
@rizen	depends upon what the contributor does	01:54
SynQ	the contributor creates half done wiki pages :)	01:54
@rizen	once they've made it to "people behind webgui" status	01:54
@rizen	or contributor of the year	01:54
@rizen	then they're above client	01:55
@rizen	so i should probably do	01:55
SynQ	above the 20$ client?	01:55
@rizen	user / contributor / < $1000 yr client / pbwg / < $5k yr client / contributor of the year / >$5k yr client / rockstar	01:56
@rizen	hehe	01:56
@rizen	but that's much more confusing	01:56
SynQ	that is much clearer to me :)	01:56
SynQ	what is pbwg?	01:56
@rizen	people behind webgui	01:56
@rizen	like yung	01:56
SynQ	ah	01:56
@rizen	althought technically yung is both pbwg and client	01:57
SynQ	ok	01:57
SynQ	not to be harsh, but just to be sure...	01:57
@rizen	incidentally, you're more than contributor or client	01:59
SynQ	martin (who has made contributor of the year) is more important to you than I am, since you see me more like a 'user' even though ProcoliX has payed for quite a significat part of martin's his time that got him to be contributor of the year?	01:59
@rizen	cuz you're friend	01:59
@rizen	and friend isn't in that list	01:59
SynQ	:)	01:59
SynQ	friend is above that list?	01:59
SynQ	not to be placed in any category?	02:00
SynQ	isn't martin friend too?	02:00
@rizen	friend can't be defined by that list	02:00
@rizen	because it has nothing to do with time or money	02:00
@rizen	that's a time/money list	02:00
SynQ	to be friend you first have to be able to insult you without getting kicked in the face? ;)	02:01
@rizen	and yes, martin, and most of the dutch team for that matter is in that friend category	02:01
@rizen	indeed	02:01
SynQ	ok	02:01
SynQ	now I understand fully	02:01
@rizen	there was a time i used to kick you in the face often	02:01
@rizen	=)	02:01
SynQ	how much does rockstar cost?	02:01
SynQ	;)	02:01
@rizen	it starts at $30k per year	02:01
SynQ	man, that is almost for free	02:01
@rizen	but we don't have anyone using that small of a rockstar client	02:02
@rizen	contract	02:02
SynQ	that is odd	02:02
@rizen	i believe all of them are >$100k	02:02
@rizen	currently	02:02
SynQ	all one of them?	02:02
@rizen	3	02:02
SynQ	gosh	02:02
@rizen	all 3 of them	02:03
SynQ	now I'm sure there will be a wuc next year :)	02:03
@rizen	rockstar has nothing to do with wuc, unless they include wuc tickets in their rockstar contract	02:03
@rizen	which so far none have	02:03
SynQ	damn	02:03
@rizen	its funny cuz they each always have at least one person show up	02:04
SynQ	If I make more than EUR 100000 per year I'll want to get one of them rockstar contracts	02:04
@rizen	oh please...you make more than that	02:04
@rizen	you're a super successful hosting company	02:04
SynQ	sure I do	02:04
@rizen	i don't mean you personally	02:04
SynQ	that is why I drive a 10 year old BMW	02:04
@rizen	i mean you ProcoliX	02:05
SynQ	turnover yes	02:05
SynQ	but profit	02:05
@rizen	oh i c	02:05
@rizen	yeah profit is a different story	02:05
SynQ	ProcoliX turnover this year will probably be around 300K euro's	02:05
@rizen	we'll be more than that, but we do more than just hosting too	02:06
SynQ	and PB has more employees	02:06
@rizen	yeah, our payroll scares me	02:06
SynQ	we have 4,6 FTE starting october 1st	02:06
SynQ	now we have 3,6	02:06
SynQ	how much FTE has PB got?	02:07
@rizen	what is 3,6?	02:07
@rizen	3 full and 6 part?	02:07
SynQ	that is 4 people working 3,6 full time hours	02:07
SynQ	FTE = Full Time Employee	02:07
@rizen	we have 8 full time and 1 part time, plus the gaggle of contractors that we hire for project work	02:07
SynQ	full time is 36 up to 40hours a week	02:08
SynQ	we almost don't do contractors	02:08
@rizen	for us FTE = salaried	02:08
SynQ	ah ok	02:08
SynQ	8 is a lot	02:08
@rizen	we did have 9	02:08
@rizen	but one quit a month ago	02:08
@rizen	we're seeing how the ebb and tide of project work goes before we hire another	02:09
SynQ	your annual turnover should be arount 1Million a year	02:09
@rizen	i don't discuss such numbers publicly	02:09
@rizen	=)	02:09
SynQ	I do	02:09
SynQ	they are publicly available at the end of the year anyway	02:10
@rizen	really?	02:10
@rizen	not for us	02:10
SynQ	I have to publish them at the chaimber of commerce	02:10
@rizen	ah	02:10
@rizen	we're not a member of the chamber of commerce	02:10
@rizen	so we don't have to	02:10
SynQ	so I might as well tell it to anybody	02:10
SynQ	plus, I don't do in secrets	02:10
SynQ	I am an open book	02:10
SynQ	that is so much easier	02:11
@rizen	i don't want to keep secrets, but i have customers who prefer that we keep that data private	02:11
SynQ	and turnover doesn't say anything about your profits	02:11
SynQ	ah	02:11
@rizen	as they contribute significant amounts of money to our bottom line	02:11
SynQ	I'm not telling you anything about how much a costumer pays us too	02:11
SynQ	I am not allowed to	02:11
SynQ	but I can tell you ballpark turnover figures	02:12
SynQ	so I can also tell you that I'm spending about 30% of our anual turnover on hardware	02:12
@rizen	my goal is to double our total revenue each year	02:12
@rizen	for the first 5 i did it, and i'm on track for year 6	02:13
SynQ	revenue = profit?	02:13
@rizen	revenue = turnover	02:13
SynQ	ah	02:13
SynQ	ok	02:13
SynQ	I want to explode in the next two years	02:13
@rizen	our datacenter bill is around $7k per month	02:13
SynQ	quadruple the turnover in 2008	02:13
SynQ	is that including renting all servers?	02:14
@rizen	yup	02:14
SynQ	that is ok	02:14
SynQ	not too expensive	02:14
@rizen	no, all in all it's pretty inexpensive	02:14
SynQ	for me that is not so easy to say	02:14
SynQ	since we own most of the servers	02:15
@rizen	but that's what you specialize in too	02:15
SynQ	but I guess it's about 20k euro per month	02:15
@rizen	i'm certain we don't do things as high end as you	02:15
SynQ	no	02:15
SynQ	that is way to much	02:15
SynQ	more like 15K	02:15
SynQ	the theaters are great to do	02:15
SynQ	peaks of 3000 visitors +	02:15
SynQ	all wanting to order a ticket for one particular show	02:16
SynQ	and with 3000 I mean 3000 per second	02:16
SynQ	requests	02:16
@rizen	wow	02:17
SynQ	and them servers are still doing nothing :)	02:17
@rizen	amazing	02:17
SynQ	since it's all php code	02:17
SynQ	and load-balanced over 4 systems	02:17
SynQ	but I'd like to do that with webgui next year	02:17
SynQ	on our new blade infrastructure	02:18
SynQ	but hey	02:18
SynQ	it's 15 past 1	02:19
SynQ	I should really go to bed	02:19
@rizen	that's what i want to do with the pure perl stack	02:19
@rizen	yes you should	02:19
SynQ	pure perl sounds good	02:19
SynQ	and then compiled pure perl	02:19
SynQ	that sounds even better	02:19
@rizen	bah	02:19
@rizen	sweet dreams	02:19
SynQ	thanks	02:19
SynQ	chat to you tomorrow?	02:20
@rizen	i'll prbably be around	02:20
SynQ	somewhere around the same time?	02:20
@rizen	working on wre all weekend	02:20
SynQ	or earlier?	02:20
SynQ	ok	02:20
@rizen	i'll probably be on all day all weekend	02:20
SynQ	I'll get you access to some of my newly created vm's	02:20
SynQ	I've got 3 AMD X2 systems with 4Gb ram	02:21
SynQ	:)	02:21
SynQ	just to play with	02:21
@rizen	nice	02:21
SynQ	although not behind too big network connections	02:21
SynQ	but then again	02:21
SynQ	enough to compile the new WRE on	02:21
SynQ	ok	02:21
SynQ	nite	02:21
SynQ	~	02:21
perlmonkey2	YUI Compressor 1.0 Released.	02:24
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI		02:37
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip68-97-51-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #webgui []		02:44
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		02:49
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		02:49
-!- khenn_ [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #WebGUI []		05:09
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		05:40
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		05:40
SDuensin	Anybody alive?	06:22
@rizen	indeed	06:24
SDuensin	Hey bud.	06:25
SDuensin	I can't for the life of me figure out how to generate a set of nested <ul><li></li></ul> type stuff for a navigation template.	06:25
@rizen	it's very tricky	06:26
@rizen	although i believe that steve made a default template that comes with webgui that does it	06:27
SDuensin	I've yet to find it if so.	06:27
@rizen	it's there	06:27
@rizen	do this	06:27
@rizen	go to asset manager > search	06:27
@rizen	select template as the class time	06:27
@rizen	type	06:27
@rizen	and search for "list"	06:27
@rizen	i think that will findit	06:28
SDuensin	Oh, and why does WebGUI completely blow the template in the admin menus?	06:28
SDuensin	Happens all the time!	06:28
@rizen	i have no idea what you've just said, let alone what you're talking about	06:30
SDuensin	hehehe	06:30
SDuensin	I can send you a screenshot.	06:30
@rizen	if it's a bug why not just post it	06:32
SDuensin	I don't know if it's a bug. :-P	06:32
SDuensin	Not finding that nav template.	06:34
SDuensin	Maybe I just did. Reading.	06:35
@rizen	[ WebGUI 7.4.3-beta / 7.3.22-stable \| WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://webgui.org/wuc	06:44
-!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.3-beta / 7.3.22-stable \| WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://webgui.org/wuc		06:44
@rizen	incidentally steve says it's easier if you enable HTML::Template::Expr	06:45
* SDuensin will take your word for it.		06:46
-!- perlbot [n=perlbot@lv.pm.org] has joined #webgui		06:51
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		07:11
-!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: perlbot, sno, prj2501		07:15
-!- Netsplit over, joins: sno, perlbot, prj2501		07:16
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		07:16
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction_] by ChanServ		07:16
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		07:23
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		15:49
danny_mk	Well, I finally found the bug!	15:49
danny_mk	it helps to read the API perldocs :-)	15:50
danny_mk	anyway, I was asked to provide a website where WebGUI users can see the module in action.	15:52
danny_mk	I know my system would not take a heavy load if it got too many hits. Is there a WebGUI testing system where I can install this module for user tests?	15:53
danny_mk	brb	16:00
SynQ	how much is heavy load?	16:13
SynQ	what kind of load do you expect	16:13
SynQ	and how long should that site run?	16:13
danny_mk	well, my 4 websites are only running off one server and although the server can probably take a lot of hits I just wanted to make sure the system	16:14
danny_mk	can take it.	16:14
SynQ	ok	16:15
danny_mk	in my case I don't know what would be considered a heavy load for my server, I have never tested the sysems performance	16:15
SynQ	when do you need it up and running?	16:15
SynQ	and how long for	16:15
danny_mk	I bet if it ran for a couple weeks that would be long enough.	16:16
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip68-97-51-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui		16:16
danny_mk	OpenId is in its infancy stage but sooner rather than later would be best	16:17
SynQ	what are the specs of the server you have now?	16:18
danny_mk	You know what, I am going to take a chance. I will setup a new webgui website where the users can see it in action.	16:19
SynQ	that's the spirit	16:19
danny_mk	I will do that sometime this afternoon. It occurs to me that I have never tested that server anyway and this is as good a time as any :-)	16:20
SynQ	you could also try and hit your server with ab before you do that	16:21
danny_mk	ab?	16:21
SynQ	apache bench	16:21
danny_mk	ah!	16:22
danny_mk	cool, will do that. Thank you for the suggestions.	16:22
SynQ	no prob	16:22
danny_mk	have to go feed the animals now. Take care.	16:22
SynQ	yea, I'm gonna walk the dog too	16:22
SynQ	bye	16:22
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		16:23
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		16:24
-!- khenn [n=khenn@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI		17:30
-!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ		17:30
@rizen	synq, you shouldn't talk about your wife that way	18:05
SynQ	hehe	18:24
SynQ	I actually do have a dog	18:25
SynQ	good morning by the way	18:25
SynQ	I've just opened a beer :)	18:25
@rizen	have one for me	18:25
@rizen	i'm going to need it	18:25
SynQ	why is that?	18:26
SynQ	oh, I've been reading the backlog	18:26
@rizen	well i've got a full day of WRE debugging and compiling ahead of me	18:26
SynQ	I read your arguments for not having a vmware image	18:26
@rizen	and our server is being attacked by the search engines	18:26
SynQ	now I am in the process of creating kvm as a webgui imageplatfrom	18:27
SynQ	platform even	18:27
@rizen	yahoo, msn, google, and a few small ones have been all simultaneously indexing our site for the past 10 hours	18:27
SynQ	nice	18:27
@rizen	no	18:27
SynQ	not?	18:27
@rizen	it's killing the server	18:27
SynQ	is it on a single server?	18:27
@rizen	yes	18:27
SynQ	aww	18:28
@rizen	the problem is mainly spindle speed	18:28
SynQ	I understand	18:28
SynQ	what os / distro are you using?	18:28
@rizen	rhel	18:29
SynQ	and is it freely downloadable/installable?	18:29
@rizen	there's centos	18:29
@rizen	which is the same thing	18:29
@rizen	and free	18:29
SynQ	but you're using the paid stuff	18:29
@rizen	yup	18:29
SynQ	ah ok	18:29
SynQ	that's too bad then	18:29
@rizen	we get security patches faster	18:29
@rizen	and we get the paid version for free from our data center anyway	18:30
SynQ	if it were free I could try and supply you with a vm to compile stuff	18:30
@rizen	huh??	18:30
SynQ	virtual machine	18:30
@rizen	why do i need a vm to compile stuff?	18:30
@rizen	i already have a vmware server farm for compiling stuff	18:30
SynQ	ah	18:31
SynQ	ok	18:31
SynQ	never mind	18:31
SynQ	is there any chance I get to see that nice new WRE in the coming few days?	18:31
@rizen	that's why i'm working so hard on it	18:36
SynQ	ok	18:36
SynQ	don't let me distract you then	18:36
SynQ	I'll keep on working on a kvm image for webgui	18:37
SynQ	using wre 0.7.2	18:37
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		19:43
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		19:43
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		20:43
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		20:58
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction_] by ChanServ		20:58
@rizen	SynQ if you're around i could use some assistance	21:00
@rizen	I'm getting [Sat Aug 18 12:45:30 2007] [notice] child pid 6055 exit signal Bus error (10) in my modperl error log on the new WRE	21:00
@rizen	and i can't figure out what that means	21:00
@rizen	it was running at one point	21:00
SynQ	hmm	21:01
SynQ	any google entry I find about that is talking about out of memory problems	21:09
@preaction_	i'm finding ones about memory hardware faults or other hardware faults	21:10
@rizen	the only entry i found about it says that i'm using an apache module that was compiled for a different version of apache than i'm using	21:10
@rizen	but everything was compiled at the same time	21:10
@rizen	from scratch	21:10
SynQ	I'd bet on the memory stuff	21:10
@preaction_	that'd cause sigsegv, not sigbus	21:10
SynQ	either you have broken memory or you are out of memory	21:10
@rizen	so my box is failing?	21:10
@preaction_	run memtest86 to find out	21:10
SynQ	dunno, but it wouldn't hurt to run a memtest	21:10
@rizen	this is my mac	21:11
@rizen	can't run tht	21:11
SynQ	aw	21:11
@rizen	however, i'll take a look at memory whilst trying to start it	21:11
@rizen	see what that turns up	21:11
@rizen	thanks for the tip	21:11
@rizen	my machine is reporting 130MB free whilst trying to start it	21:13
@rizen	i'm going to try rebooting though, cuz i haven't done that in a while and this machine gets funny when i don't	21:13
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		21:14
SynQ	hmm	21:15
SynQ	funny machine :)	21:15
SynQ	maybe you should get a new one	21:15
@rizen	yeah, i need a new one	21:17
@rizen	but i'm waiting for the new OSX to come out in october	21:17
@rizen	before buying one	21:17
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		21:18
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		21:22
-!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ		21:22
SynQ	hi there mr. smith	21:25
@rizen	howdy	21:25
SynQ	did the rebooting help?	21:25
@rizen	nope, but my machine is running faster now	21:25
SynQ	grin	21:25
@rizen	and shows far more ram available	21:25
@rizen	i have another idea though	21:26
SynQ	which is?	21:26
@rizen	i'll tell you if it works	21:26
@rizen	nevermind it does work now	21:32
@rizen	at least in the sense that it starts up	21:32
@rizen	i'm still getting the error though	21:37
@rizen	even though it's running	21:37
@rizen	i think i'm going to have to recompile at this point	21:38
@rizen	no other ideas	21:38
SynQ	hmm	21:47
SynQ	I don't know what your setup is	21:47
@rizen	setup = fucked up	21:47
SynQ	I'm struggling with wre 0.7.2 now	21:48
SynQ	but I guess you are not really interested in that	21:48
SynQ	http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-0.7.2-on-ubuntu-server-edition-7.04-feisty	21:48
SynQ	it seems ubuntu doesn't recognize the 'source' command	21:48
@rizen	yeah	21:49
@rizen	someone said that if you edit the first line of	21:49
@rizen	the /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/share/mysql/mysql.server script	21:49
@rizen	to be #!/bin/bash	21:49
@rizen	that fixes it	21:49
SynQ	ok, lets try	21:50
SynQ	that is not in the wiki btw :)	21:50
@rizen	that's a bug in MySQL on Ubuntu	21:50
@rizen	i don't maintain the wiki	21:50
@rizen	complain to the community	21:50
SynQ	:)	21:50
SynQ	it is in the wiki now	21:50
SynQ	I am the community ;)	21:51
@rizen	indeed	21:51
SynQ	now I'm going to eat first	21:52
SynQ	bbl	21:52
-!- Radix-europe [n=Jesse@89.202.179.178] has joined #webgui		22:20
-!- Radix-europe [n=Jesse@89.202.179.178] has quit ["Leaving"]		22:51
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		23:05
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		23:45
--- Day changed Sun Aug 19 2007
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit ["Leaving"]		00:14
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		00:54
-!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []		00:55
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		01:09
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		01:09
@rizen	i just shaved 13mb off the WRE's compressed size	02:41
@rizen	and 60mb off it's deployed size	02:41
@preaction	nice	02:41
@rizen	the WRE no longer comes with documentation for all the utilities	02:43
@rizen	like the Apache manual	02:43
@rizen	in order to do that	02:43
@rizen	and i've also eliminated things like the mysql benchmark suite	02:43
@rizen	but they can use the wdk if they want full documentation	02:43
@rizen	i take it back, it's 75MB of fthe deployed size	02:45
@rizen	not 60	02:45
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has joined #webgui		03:25
-!- danny_mk [n=daniel@68.15.55.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		03:39
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Exit- stage left"]		03:43
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		04:07
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction_] by ChanServ		04:07
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		04:25
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		06:23
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		06:55
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip68-97-51-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."]		06:58
-!- sno_ [n=sno@76.226.196.174] has joined #WebGUI		07:47
-!- sno [n=sno@adsl-76-226-106-15.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		08:03
-!- vayde [n=vayde@c-75-72-85-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Exit- stage left"]		08:34
-!- sno__ [n=sno@76.226.161.240] has joined #WebGUI		08:43
-!- sno_ [n=sno@76.226.196.174] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]		09:00
SynQ	75M off the deployment size, that is absolutely fantastic!	12:27
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		12:43
-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction_] by ChanServ		12:43
-!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Client Quit]		12:45
SynQ	jt, did you solve the mod_perl problem?	14:34
@rizen	yes i did	18:10
@rizen	sorry, getting a really late start this morning	18:10
@rizen	the recompile fixed everything	18:10
@rizen	i can't figure out what's going on	18:11
@rizen	there must be some new major site linking to plainblack.com	18:12
@rizen	because the search engines keep resweeping the site every day	18:12
@rizen	it's been going on for 3 days in a row now	18:12
-!- rizen_ [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		19:59
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]		19:59
-!- rizen_ [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		20:07
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		20:08
-!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ		20:08
-!- besonen_mobile [n=besonen_@71-220-238-128.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #webgui		20:14
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui		21:59
-!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ		21:59
SynQ	rizen: I think that is not bad, but good news	22:30
@rizen	it is bad in that my server is at a constant load of 10.0	22:30
SynQ	that is no