WebGUI irc logs from: 2007-02.log

--- Log opened Thu Feb 01 00:00:25 2007
+perlDreamer	the problem is the thread/post relationship	00:06
+perlDreamer	if you rate a post, then it needs to go recalculate the thread	00:06
+perlDreamer	but since a Thread ISA Post, it ends up doing things twice	00:06
+perlDreamer	again!	00:06
+perlDreamer	I just need to break all the parts out and call them separately instead of using inheritance	00:07
+perlDreamer	threads should have their own rating counter	00:07
+perlDreamer	threadRating	00:07
+perlDreamer	then this would all go away	00:07
+perlDreamer	all the logic and code would reduce down to almost nothing	00:07
+perlDreamer	rizen: you awake?	00:09
@rizen	working on support problems	00:09
@rizen	is it something quick?	00:09
+perlDreamer	can I add a new column to the thread table to hold the summed thread rating?	00:09
@rizen	doesn't it already have one for that?	00:10
+perlDreamer	no	00:10
+perlDreamer	it recycles the Post rating column	00:10
@rizen	sure	00:10
@rizen	oh right	00:10
+perlDreamer	I'll make sure that we can display the right thing in the Post view template.	00:10
@rizen	so you want to keep the thread post seperate from the thread overall	00:11
+perlDreamer	If so, then I'll do it	00:11
+perlDreamer	yes	00:11
@rizen	go for it	00:11
+perlDreamer	okay	00:11
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onioncoder	has anyone seen Google Gadgets? Anyone thought of allowing any webgui asset to be a "gadget" that could be dropped into anyone else's non-webgui website via a snippet of code?	00:14
@preaction	an XMLRPC interface that returns JSON output? a javascript library that parses it and spits out HTML?	00:17
@preaction	i mean, some assets have RSS feeds	00:17
@preaction	what kind of code are you talking about writing to interface with whatever interface is built?	00:17
onioncoder	(looking for an example for you)]	00:18
@preaction	Javascript? Perl? <other>?	00:18
+perlDreamer	preaction, maybe AJAX instead of XMLRPC?	00:18
@preaction	twitch PHP?	00:18
onioncoder	http://www.google.com/apis/gadgets/index.html	00:18
@preaction	ajax is just a standard http call, so perhaps "?func=ajax;method=XXX"?	00:19
onioncoder	the way google does it, I think, is a <script > javascript link	00:19
onioncoder	that does ajax back to google for content	00:19
onioncoder	since webgui assets can be "ajaxified" already (most i think)	00:19
* perlDreamer flushes preaction's keyboard buffer and remove all references to PHP		00:20
onioncoder	the idea would be to allow a script tag on a remote site to fetch just that asset	00:20
* perlDreamer hits the reset button		00:20
+perlDreamer	is that better preaction?	00:20
@preaction	is what better?	00:20
@preaction	ahh, mind-wipes	00:20
@preaction	i'm not worried, because i never knew i could be worried!	00:20
+perlDreamer	I thought you locked up there	00:20
+perlDreamer	after the *twitch	00:21
@preaction	but if i read that line again, i'll have whatever it was that made me twitch on my head again, and that would make me twitch again	00:21
@preaction	anyway	00:21
onioncoder	anyone? anyone? ferris?	00:21
@preaction	well, currently we have the RSSCapable mixin	00:21
onioncoder	here's an eg of a google map: <script src="http://gmodules.com/ig/ifr?url=http://ralph.feedback.googlepages.com/googlemap.xml&up_locname=Google&up_loc=1600%20Amphitheatre%20Parkway%2C%20Mountain%20View%2C%20CA&up_zoom=Street&up_view=Map&synd=open&w=320&h=200&title=Google+Map&border=%23ffffff%7C3px%2C1px+solid+%23999999&output=js"></script>	00:22
@preaction	perhaps a "GadgetCapable" or something that would provide a www_ajax method and an interface to override	00:22
onioncoder	drop that code into any html and voila	00:22
onioncoder	right - exactly	00:22
@preaction	this is more of a community building feature	00:23
@preaction	and the CS is turning into a monster	00:23
@preaction	and XMLRPC sucks for the most part anyway, since AJAX uses JavaScript	00:24
@preaction	i say it's a good idea, but i also say it's a rather intensive idea that needs to be developed appropriately	00:24
onioncoder	right - i'm thinking of a fund a feature with pb	00:25
@preaction	(but along the lines of the RSSCapable asset mixin)	00:25
@preaction	rather, asset base	00:25
@preaction	contact the appropriate people for a quote, though i'll warn you that it will probably be larger than you might expect	00:25
@preaction	is there a limit to your desire? just the CS wobject for example?	00:26
onioncoder	k - what are the pitfalls you are seeing?	00:26
@preaction	it CAN be done for all Assets, but that takes more time	00:26
@preaction	the Calendar would be a good candidate for this	00:26
@preaction	but there's already iCalendar feeds from that	00:26
+perlDreamer	I don't see the point.	00:26
+perlDreamer	but I'm thick	00:26
@preaction	perlDreamer: basically thus: you get to access content from a wG site on your own personal site	00:27
@preaction	so let's say I want to put the plainblack support calendar on my own site, i'd add a <script src="SOME URL"></script> tag to my site, and voila!	00:27
onioncoder	and if it is fully ajaxified, can be interactive without requiring refresh on the remote site	00:27
+perlDreamer	you'd do it through iCal	00:27
onioncoder	ok - now think of publishing interactive content	00:28
@preaction	wG can't do that now	00:28
+perlDreamer	a lot of sites generate revenue from ads	00:28
onioncoder	WSClient	00:28
+perlDreamer	this would allow access to the content bypassing the ads	00:28
onioncoder	k- you guys are bogged down on why, not how	00:28
@preaction	why is the most important question?	00:28
@preaction	what's the end result that you can't get currently?	00:29
@preaction	for the CS you can get RSS feeds and format them, RSS is XML so there are javascript parsers.	00:29
onioncoder	a) I have internal APIs I can expose as SOAP, REST, etc etc	00:29
@preaction	for the Calendar you can get iCalendar feeds, and i'm sure there must be a Javascript parser for vCal/iCal/vCard	00:29
onioncoder	b) most end users arent' sophisticated ehough to code for that	00:30
onioncoder	c) I can have webgui consume my APIs via WS Client or equivalent	00:30
onioncoder	d) an enduser can then just copy/paste a generated link for that interactive SOAP driven content	00:30
onioncoder	I could write my own gadget system	00:31
onioncoder	but in some ways easier to let WebGUI be a gadget distribution system for me	00:31
onioncoder	that is the why	00:31
@preaction	so this doesn't export JSON, it exports javascript source	00:32
@preaction	hence the <script src=""></script>	00:32
@preaction	can we assume that people can import and/or use a Javascript library instead?	00:33
onioncoder	right - it is a javascript container, which then in turn can then do the ajax to get the content -- kind of a bootstrap i guess	00:33
@preaction	<script src="path/to/downloaded/javascript/library.js">goGetGadget("URL");</script>	00:33
@preaction	rofl, goGetGadget("COPTER")	00:34
onioncoder	so once you have done it once for one type of asset, it should work with any asset that has a www_ajax method (in a perfect world)	00:34
onioncoder	lol	00:34
@preaction	like the RSSCapable asset base class	00:34
onioncoder	does it still seem as bad?	00:35
@preaction	so currently we have two needs: One: Assets have an AJAX interface for some features. Two: Some way to make that AJAX interface easy for lusers	00:35
+perlDreamer	we can't solve two because that's the user's site	00:35
+perlDreamer	each site would have to have their own click and drag interface for widgets	00:35
+perlDreamer	drupal, livejournal, plone, etc.	00:36
+perlDreamer	even wG	00:36
@preaction	well, i think that if we make it as easy as copy/paste the above source, the <script> thing, that's easy enough	00:36
@preaction	then provide options to change (for example) formattings and the like	00:37
onioncoder	usage example: a charity has a website in wG, they have donors who want to promote the charity on their personal homepage, they could just have a link, yes. but this could let them drop in a donation "gadget" on any html webpage	00:37
@preaction	but if we use semantic output and a way to specify the <div id="">, then they can use CSS and descendant selectors to change style	00:37
@preaction	the "gadget" being, say, a DataForm? or a Product? or something?	00:38
onioncoder	WS Client or equivalent for example	00:38
@preaction	i personally find the WSClient evil sorcery	00:39
@preaction	bewitched!	00:39
* perlDreamer is afk		00:39
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@preaction	can I get some opinions: I think I can eliminate a lot of problems for the Calendar by forcing that an event's recurrence starts on the exact same day the event itself starts on	00:50
@preaction	some problems are just the user did not update the Recurrence Range Start date	00:50
@preaction	to be honest, it doesn't do what I personally expect when I make an event the recurs, I expect it to start when the event itself starts, and have the end be specified by me	00:51
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+perlDreamer	rizen: I've been through this from top to bottom. The concept of adding a new column.	01:02
+perlDreamer	the booger is user templates	01:02
+perlDreamer	the changed system would allow the user to see both the rating of the thread post and the accumulated rating of the entire thread of posts.	01:02
castironhike19	i'm upgrading to 7.3.8 from 6.6.5 and i'm comparing our templates to an "out of the box" WG site, and i need help with adding the js tags to the templates	01:03
+perlDreamer	we can change the default templates to cover this but users would have to update their own custom templates.	01:03
@rizen	pd this shouldn't affect templates unless people want it to	01:04
@rizen	here's why	01:04
castironhike19	on the out of the box setup, i found 3 js tags, and i was hoping i could get some help with which should be included in all templates, and which is just enabling features for the default WG v7 page	01:04
@rizen	in the thread template, we want to display the rating for the thread post, not thread cumulative	01:04
+perlDreamer	oh	01:04
+perlDreamer	oh!	01:04
@rizen	in the colloboration main template we want to display the thread cum, not the other one	01:04
@rizen	so the only thing that needs to change	01:04
@rizen	is in collaboration main view	01:04
@rizen	change which variable is populating the template	01:05
gooeybot	rizen: that doesn't look right	01:05
+perlDreamer	you're a genius	01:05
+perlDreamer	I'm a'coding	01:05
@rizen	only on alternate wednesdays	01:05
@rizen	most of the time i'm a moron	01:05
+perlDreamer	It's just the cold	01:06
+perlDreamer	castironhike19: which variables are you talking about? The IRC group is small. You may have more success posting this to the PB discussion boards.	01:06
castironhike19	i haven't been able to find too much on there so far, and the upgrade notes that have been helpful are few and far between	01:07
castironhike19	but i'll post the question there	01:09
+perlDreamer	which vars are you talking about?	01:09
castironhike19	mostly i'm trying to figure out how to get it to access the new js lib	01:09
+perlDreamer	I don't think you need to do anything to your templates to do that	01:10
+perlDreamer	it should be handled by the HTTP headers	01:10
+perlDreamer	and for the most part, they're set up automatically	01:10
castironhike19	so, on our old templates, there was a js lib tag at the top of all the templates, which was <script src="/js-lib/global.js" type="text/javascript" language="javascript"></script>	01:10
castironhike19	oh, ok	01:10
+perlDreamer	Here's how to get answers on the boards	01:11
+perlDreamer	be very, very specific	01:11
+perlDreamer	provide links for examples	01:11
+perlDreamer	which template, what problems you're seeing	01:11
+perlDreamer	and be patient	01:11
castironhike19	hehe	01:12
castironhike19	i've learned that much, for sure	01:12
+perlDreamer	some people follow-up their own posts a few days later bad mouthing the community because there's no answer	01:12
castironhike19	no no, none of that	01:12
+perlDreamer	if after a few days you don't get an answer, then try to find PedersenMJ on IRC. He's our new resident style/template expert.	01:12
+perlDreamer	community wise	01:12
castironhike19	great. thanks for the tips!	01:13
+perlDreamer	and if you're still stuck or in a rush, contact Plain Black and ask for a support contract or documentation	01:13
castironhike19	right on	01:13
+perlDreamer	this announcement brought to you by Plain Black, makers of WebGUI :)	01:13
castironhike19	haha	01:13
cap10morgan	i'm actually wondering the same thing. is there a standard js include like the old global.js in version 7.x.x? sorry, that wasn't clear to me in your conversation.	01:14
+perlDreamer	yes, but I'm almost positive that it's added in the HTTP headers now	01:15
cap10morgan	perlDreamer: ok, thanks.	01:15
+perlDreamer	so you only have to add site specific JS libs in the templates	01:15
cap10morgan	cool	01:15
+perlDreamer	rizen: as part of the upgrade should the upgrade script go through ALL threads and posts and fix them?	01:17
@rizen	absolutely	01:19
@rizen	it wouldn't be fixed if it didn't	01:19
@preaction	rofl, i didn't pass the assetId to the form when editing an event... how does it even work once?	01:27
@rizen	you shouldn't need to	01:28
@rizen	you're editing off the url	01:28
@rizen	so it knows what assetid is by that	01:28
@preaction	right, but when you submit that form you need an assetId	01:28
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@rizen	i'll take your word for it	01:28
@preaction	oh, i see	01:29
@preaction	you're right	01:29
@preaction	then... crap, more digging	01:29
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+perlDreamer	anyone care to write me an getLineage command to fetch all threads?	01:46
+perlDreamer	and return objects?	01:46
+MrHairgrease	sure	01:50
+MrHairgrease	gimme a moment	01:50
+MrHairgrease	$cs->getLineage(['descendants'], {endingLineageLength => $cs->getLineageLength + 1, returnObjects => 1});	01:54
+MrHairgrease	something like that	01:55
@preaction	if $object->can("method"); and I try to run $object->method(), is there any special reasons why the method would not run?	01:55
+perlDreamer	and if I wanted _all_ threads I could change the $cs to $root	01:55
+perlDreamer	preaction: args?	01:55
@preaction	perlDreamer: none	01:55
@preaction	perlDreamer: the first line of that method i changed to a warning, and that warning never gets printed	01:55
+MrHairgrease	yes	01:56
+MrHairgrease	and ditch the endingLineageLength	01:56
+perlDreamer	preaction: are you sure the invoker is also called?	01:56
+MrHairgrease	and add	01:56
@preaction	perlDreamer: i would find it better to do, for that, $root->getLineage(["descendants"],{ includeOnlyClasses => ["WebGUI::Asset::Post::Thread"] });	01:56
+MrHairgrease	includeOnlyClasses => ['WebGUI::Asset::Post::Thread']	01:56
+perlDreamer	MrHairGrease: many, many thanks	01:57
+MrHairgrease	np	01:57
@preaction	perlDreamer: i've got a bunch of warnings around the call and they get called just fine	01:57
+perlDreamer	just weird	01:57
@preaction	imma restart and see	01:57
@preaction	mod_perl can be a cruel mistress sometimes	01:57
@preaction	nope	01:58
@preaction	this is keeping Events that have recurrence from updating the related Events	01:58
@preaction	there are a slew of "Pending" version tags that requestAutoCommit is not getting called to commit	01:59
@preaction	okay, it is getting called it's just not DOING IT	02:03
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@preaction	ha! it's because addRevision doesn't modify the current asset in-place, but returns the new asset	02:21
@preaction	i updated the docs accordingly	02:22
@rizen	perlDreamer, you still here?	02:29
+perlDreamer	I'm here	02:29
+perlDreamer	for a bit more	02:29
+perlDreamer	whazzup?	02:30
@rizen	i'm working on a weird bug (no report for it just keep hearing about it) and need some input	02:30
@rizen	the bug is that if there's a bunch of errors in spectre workflows	02:30
@rizen	that no legit workflows run	02:30
@rizen	because spectre is so busy dealing with the borked ones	02:30
@rizen	until they time out	02:30
+MrHairgrease	I've seen such a pileup once or twice	02:31
@rizen	so basically if you get something borked (let's say on a multisite server, someone creates some bad workflows)	02:31
+MrHairgrease	just restarted spectre	02:31
@rizen	then the whole show stops for a while	02:31
@rizen	my thought on how to clear this is to implement a new queuing scheme	02:31
@rizen	we have priority 1, 2, and 3	02:32
@rizen	but let's assume we can have as many queues as we want	02:32
@rizen	so that 1 2 and 3 turn into	02:32
@rizen	10 20 and 30	02:32
@rizen	then every time a workflow is run	02:33
@rizen	it gets put down 1 level in the que	02:33
@rizen	queue	02:33
@rizen	to 11	02:33
@rizen	and then to 12	02:33
@rizen	assuming it was priority 1 to begin with	02:33
@rizen	so if it runs 10 times, then it will be at 20	02:33
@rizen	which is where priority 2 stuff starts	02:33
@rizen	basically, if something priority 1 runs long enough	02:34
@rizen	it will be at the bottom of the stack with all the crap	02:34
@rizen	because if it is running that long...it should be put dead last anyway	02:34
@rizen	what this solves is that everything then gets a turn to run	02:34
@rizen	without gumming up the system	02:34
@rizen	how i do it now is	02:34
@rizen	if something errors	02:34
@rizen	it's taken out of the queue for 60 seconds	02:34
@rizen	and then returned back to whatever queue it was already in (1,2,3	02:35
@rizen	so if you have a lot of those	02:35
@rizen	and they're all erroring out in queue 1	02:35
@rizen	then queues 2 and 3 will never have a chance to run	02:35
@rizen	ever	02:35
@rizen	because it may take longer than 60 seconds	02:35
@rizen	to cycle through all the bad crap	02:35
@preaction	does it only get downgraded if it errors?	02:35
+perlDreamer	yeah, can we make a distinction between requeue due to time out vs erroring out?	02:36
@rizen	i'm thinking it gets downgraded no matter what	02:36
+perlDreamer	if you error out, longer timeout before requeue	02:36
@rizen	a 50 step workflow	02:36
@rizen	would run 51 times	02:36
@rizen	so if it started at 10	02:36
@rizen	it would be at 61 when it completes	02:36
@rizen	assuming it completed on the first attempt	02:36
@rizen	for each activity	02:36
@rizen	we could do a longer timeout	02:37
@rizen	but that still doesn't scale much better	02:37
@rizen	it might work for one environment	02:37
@rizen	but not for all	02:37
@rizen	we need to come up with a way to make sure that everything gets a chance	02:37
@preaction	perhaps high priority don't go down so fast? 1 level for HP, 2 for Medium, 3 for Low, so long, high-priority workflows still get preferred in the long run?	02:37
@rizen	yo tun	02:37
@rizen	to run	02:37
@rizen	keep in mind that high priority workflows will still have 10 high priority executions	02:38
@rizen	before they get mixed in with the cruft	02:38
@rizen	that's way more than they should need to complete	02:38
@preaction	ok	02:38
@rizen	most workflows complete within 3-5 executions	02:39
@rizen	in fact, commit without approval completes in 1 execution almost every time (unless there's an error)	02:39
@rizen	anyway..does anybody see any problems with doing this sort of a filter	02:40
@rizen	rather than the 3 queues method we do now	02:40
+perlDreamer	can we add some profiling to monitor queue health?	02:40
@rizen	explain	02:41
+perlDreamer	brb	02:41
@preaction	the only problem i see, you've brought up: a very very long workflow will be relegated (Eventually) to the bottom of the barrel	02:41
@rizen	yeah...and i'm not sure that's a problem	02:42
@rizen	since a very very long workflow needs to give up some of it's time so that other things can run	02:42
@rizen	that's the whole idea of time sharing	02:42
@preaction	right, but it's giving up both time and priority, "I need time, but I'll wait, and I'll also pretend to need time less than I did last time"	02:43
+perlDreamer	so in profiling, we would keep track of how deep a workflow goes before it leaves the queue, either by completing or falling off the end	02:43
+perlDreamer	this gives us a way of identifying queue depth and troublesome workflows	02:43
+perlDreamer	i.e. if Workflow A NEVER executes, now we have something concrete to go look at	02:44
@rizen	preaction: sorry, time = 1 execution, not regular time	02:44
+perlDreamer	instead of saying: reset spectre and call me in the morning	02:44
@preaction	so not the 60 second limit thing?	02:44
@rizen	right, there will not be a timeout anymore	02:44
@rizen	pd: to you	02:45
@rizen	there are a few things	02:45
@preaction	oh, then i don't have an issue	02:45
@rizen	i have planned	02:45
@rizen	1) you'll be able to run a command line	02:45
@rizen	perl spectre.pl --status	02:45
@rizen	which will tell you how many workflows there are waiting and their priorities	02:46
@rizen	2) you'll also be able to do some ps functions	02:46
@rizen	like top	02:46
@rizen	kill	02:46
@rizen	that sort of thing	02:46
@rizen	3) the status information will be available through the admin console (from web browser)	02:46
@rizen	though the other things will not, for security reasons	02:47
@rizen	4) you can already see what workflows are running and their status, and what version tags are pending	02:47
@rizen	5) the workflow status screen will be updated to include more information	02:47
@rizen	sorry, the "running workflows" screen	02:47
@preaction	perlDreamer: we're still on for the calendar docs tonight? i'm gonna grab some food so I'll bbl	02:48
+perlDreamer	preaction: yes 7:30pm PST	02:48
@rizen	i plan on doing all these things as part of 7.3 bug fixing, because we're seeing a lot of spectre problems	02:48
@rizen	and we need better tools to troubleshoot with	02:48
@rizen	so, given that list	02:48
@rizen	does that cover what you were looking for?	02:48
+perlDreamer	Almost all of it, yes	02:48
+perlDreamer	I still think a history would be good	02:49
+perlDreamer	1-5 cover what's happening now	02:49
+perlDreamer	but not what has happened	02:49
@rizen	spectre is doing all this stuff in memory	02:49
@rizen	and doesn't communicate with the db	02:49
@rizen	so therefore keeping history like that	02:49
@rizen	would be a memory leak	02:49
+perlDreamer	yes.	02:50
@rizen	i suppose we could add a special debug runtime flag that would keep the history	02:50
+perlDreamer	it could go in the WebGUI logfile as well.	02:51
@rizen	that way you could have it when you're troubleshooting	02:51
+perlDreamer	it would just need to be postprocessed	02:51
@rizen	and turn it off later	02:51
+perlDreamer	yes	02:51
+perlDreamer	it's just a debug feature	02:51
+perlDreamer	not a runtime	02:51
@rizen	ok	02:51
@rizen	i'll see what i can do on that front	02:51
@rizen	back to my queuing problem	02:51
@rizen	do you see any problems with that?	02:51
@rizen	my new solution?	02:51
+perlDreamer	not off the top of my head	02:52
+perlDreamer	so long as things fall off the end, it should never get stuck	02:52
+perlDreamer	although bad workflows may interrupt lower priority workflows	02:52
+perlDreamer	if junk is at 15, and I insert at 20, it may not get run for a while until the 15 flows past me	02:52
@rizen	it never will get stuck, but going back to your historical thing	02:52
@rizen	it will be interesting if you run --status	02:53
+perlDreamer	via cron	02:53
@rizen	and see that there is a workflow that's been executing 100937 times	02:53
+perlDreamer	wait, I thought it would only execute 50 times?	02:53
+perlDreamer	is 51 death? or bottom out?	02:53
@rizen	no, it will keep executing until it completes	02:53
@rizen	no bottom out	02:53
+perlDreamer	well, in that case, there's our historical data right there	02:54
+perlDreamer	everything in 50 is problematic	02:54
@rizen	historical for anything that's still running	02:54
@rizen	it won't show any historical data for things that have completed	02:54
+perlDreamer	right, and that's fine	02:54
@rizen	oh	02:54
@rizen	well in that case	02:54
+perlDreamer	we can always identify big workflows by using our heads	02:54
@rizen	we're good	02:54
+perlDreamer	email lists, post/thread archives	02:55
+perlDreamer	these are potentially big workflows	02:55
+perlDreamer	we can deal with them individually	02:55
@rizen	cache deletes are the biggest	02:55
@rizen	big caches can take a long time to run	02:55
@rizen	for cleanup	02:55
+perlDreamer	what about cache populates for RSS and iCal?	02:55
@rizen	huh?	02:56
+perlDreamer	there is an RSS populate workflow	02:56
+perlDreamer	I figured there'd be one for iCal as well	02:56
@rizen	oh right	02:56
@rizen	those aren't all that long	02:56
@rizen	unless there are connectivity problems	02:56
@rizen	they usually complete in 1 execution	02:56
+perlDreamer	okay	02:56
@rizen	ok...must get dinner now	02:57
+perlDreamer	so the long part is identifying which cache entries have expired	02:57
@rizen	yes	02:57
+perlDreamer	okay. see ya!	02:57
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@rizen	which won't be as big of a deal if i can complete my goal of getting rid of FS cache at some point	02:57
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@preaction	woohoo, first time i've had an alcoholic beverage in 8 months, and now i'm going bughunting!	04:35
* preaction maintains professional composure in a public forum		04:35
Radix-wrk	lol	04:44
Radix-wrk	What alcoholic beverage though?	04:45
@preaction	brandy old-fashioned sour	04:45
@preaction	my new favorite, followed closely by white russians and vodka martinis	04:45
@preaction	crap, i just realized that our additions to the WebGUI::DateTime interface are somewhat ambiguous, because of WebGUI's ability to allow users to specify their own date/time formats...	04:48
Radix-wrk	I had fun with Webtender.com's "In My Bar" for New years myself.. got a nice collection of liquers and spirits for the occasion (all rather cheap thanks to a friend who works at a bottle shop), and we tried lots of concoctions that night :)	04:49
+crythias	"Thank you for the completely inadequate wedding gift."	04:49
+crythias	http://www.cafepress.com/bridezilla.7451373	04:49
Radix-wrk	heh	04:50
@preaction	ha ha, that's clever	04:50
Radix-wrk	So how goes the bughunt?	04:54
@preaction	ugly... deep-rooted calendar bugs	04:55
Radix-wrk	:(	04:55
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Radix-wrk	Hmm.. just had our website disappear in a bunch of workflow errors - now getting '502 Bad Gateway' messages..	05:04
@preaction	bad gateway means modperl is down	05:05
Radix-wrk	just clearing the webguicache and when that's done will do a full restart	05:05
@preaction	sounds a goodly idea	05:05
Radix-wrk	2007/02/01 09:54:53 - ERROR - webgui.formsys.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - Caught	05:06
Radix-wrk	exception executing workflow activity pbwfactivity0000000006 for instance 2ZdKB	05:06
Radix-wrk	38_LmaEf0cGSRtLKA which reported Can't call method "get" on an undefined value a	05:06
Radix-wrk	t /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm line 276.	05:06
@preaction	JT was just discussing in here a way to (imho) fix specture entirely	05:06
@preaction	by changing the way it prioritizes and runs workflows	05:06
@preaction	which iirc he'll be adding to the 7.3.* bugfixes	05:06
Radix-wrk	Yeah, the spectre stuff still doesn't seem 100% yet	05:07
@preaction	and if i make this verdamnt calendar USABLE we can get on to 7.4 soon	05:07
Radix-wrk	cool	05:07
@preaction	basically thus: workflows will lose priority as they keep running, so workflows that cause a lot of errors will eventually be delegated to the very bottom of the barrel, and thus not clog up the works	05:08
Radix-wrk	the reason they're failing needs to be sorted out too though - not just dismiss them surely.	05:13
@preaction	of course, you'll be able to see what workflows have been running forever	05:13
@preaction	and then figure out why	05:13
Radix-wrk	these failures are all due to code in formatContent that seems to do no error checking - it's doing a $self->getThread->getParent->get("filterCode"));	05:14
@preaction	yeah, it shouldn't do that, but also those should not be failing	05:15
@preaction	it means you have a corrupt Post	05:15
@preaction	or Thread	05:15
@preaction	what line is that?	05:15
Radix-wrk	276	05:15
@preaction	i can add some warnings that will help track those corruptions down	05:15
Radix-wrk	I'm using 7.0.8 still tho	05:15
Radix-wrk	so may have been fixed in more recent versions	05:16
@preaction	i don't htink we changed it in recent ones, but i'll check	05:16
Radix-wrk	I think there are some issues with collaboration systems having posts made before they're version tag is committed	05:16
@preaction	oh, right	05:16
@preaction	yes, now CS forces committing before any Posts can be added	05:17
Radix-wrk	don't know why the whole site would've died because of that tho	05:18
Radix-wrk	clean of cache and restart fixed it	05:18
@preaction	weirdness	05:18
Radix-wrk	Oh well.. I'll keep waiting for 7.4 :)	05:19
@preaction	it's 7.3.9 or 7.3.10 you should be waiting for	05:22
@preaction	the last 7.3 release will have a clean bug list	05:22
Radix-wrk	Yeah, but we can't do password recovery with this new method of using profile fields - got over 4500 users and none of them have any profile fields we could use for password recovery	05:23
Radix-wrk	so gotta wait til 7.4 before the old password recovery method is added back in	05:23
@preaction	not even an e-mail address?	05:23
Radix-wrk	sure, but then anyone could take anyone else's account over if he had their email address	05:24
@preaction	... it doesn't send the new password to the e-mail address in the profile?	05:24
@preaction	i'm not sure how the new one works	05:24
Radix-wrk	me neither really, but the way JT described it was that it was all web based.. no emails sent	05:25
Radix-wrk	you say you forgot password, enter in one or more profile fields - if they match then you can enter in a new password	05:25
@preaction	ahh	05:25
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Radix-wrk	great if you have a new setup - you can add them to the signup info, but not if you have a lot of existing users with no such info	05:26
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@preaction	right	05:26
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@preaction	well, pb.com doesn't use the new password recovery method that i know of either	05:26
Radix-wrk	Hmm.. wonder how it's doing it then...	05:26
@preaction	at least, theres nothing on register that you enter for password recovery purposes	05:27
Radix-wrk	Ahh.. forgot password is disabled for pb.com atm	05:28
Radix-wrk	there's no link to it anymore on pb.com, and it doesn't even recognise the ?op=auth;method=recoverPassword stuff either	05:30
Radix-wrk	hope noone forgets their password! :)	05:30
@preaction	http://www.dieselsweeties.com/print/strips/ds20070119.png	05:31
PedersenMJ	g'd evening.	05:35
Radix-wrk	yo	05:35
PedersenMJ	How's it going?	05:36
Radix-wrk	what's it?	05:36
PedersenMJ	life, the universe, and everything.	05:37
Radix-wrk	it's still 42	05:37
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Radix-wrk	the bowl of petunias is okay tho	05:37
PedersenMJ	Really? I heard that it was still in the whale when the whale tried to become friends with the ground, and didn't do so well when that happened.	05:38
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@preaction	i heard the bowl of petunias was somehow killed, since it was really Agrajag in one of his incarnations	05:42
PedersenMJ	Yeah, and he had a bitch of a time getting that onto the statue of Arthur killing him in 50 some odd ways.	05:43
Radix-wrk	I just want to know why it said "Oh no, not again"	05:43
+perlDreamer	what in the world are y'all talking about?	05:43
@preaction	if we knew that, we'd know a lot more about the universe than we currently do	05:43
+perlDreamer	roger that	05:43
Radix-wrk	hence why I want to know :)	05:43
Radix-wrk	perlDreamer, we're talking about 42	05:43
+perlDreamer	42	05:44
PedersenMJ	Well, I heard that it said "oh no, not again" because it still hadn't mastered the art of throwing itself at the ground and missing.	05:45
+perlDreamer	preaction: are you a documentron tonight?	05:45
@preaction	it can't very well throw itself anywhere, it's a plant!	05:46
@preaction	perlDreamer: yes'm	05:46
+perlDreamer	give me a holler when you're ready to start	05:46
PedersenMJ	Precisely why it was so upset at the current forced attempt!	05:46
+perlDreamer	in the meantime I'll be cursing myself as 12 kinds of idiot	05:46
@preaction	perlDreamer: any time, i suppose we start with "Where the hell do I look for to add this stuff?"	05:46
@rizen	pd: why?	05:46
+perlDreamer	I left the new prototype upgrade script at $dayJob	05:47
+perlDreamer	but brought all the Asset changes home	05:47
+perlDreamer	without all the pieces, I can't finish the debug and test	05:47
@rizen	and you haven't made yourself a back door into your work network yet	05:47
@rizen	for shame	05:47
+perlDreamer	not allowed to	05:47
@rizen	you're never allowed to	05:47
+perlDreamer	no access to the firewall	05:47
@rizen	doesn't mean you don't	05:47
Radix-wrk	no vpn? ssh?	05:47
@rizen	access to the firewall is for pussies	05:47
@preaction	Randall Schwartz is a felon because of making a backdoor like that :p	05:48
Radix-wrk	ssh tunnels ftw	05:48
+perlDreamer	preaction: The docs are in two pieces: i18n is in i18n/English/Asset_*	05:48
+perlDreamer	Help is in Help/Asset_*	05:48
@preaction	ok	05:48
@rizen	preaction: shhhh. i want pd to go to jail so he can work on webgui full time	05:48
@preaction	Help is where the template docs are too? i suppose i'll see when I open one up	05:48
+perlDreamer	have a gander at the Article help for a good example of how to start	05:48
+perlDreamer	template docs have 4 pieces	05:48
+perlDreamer	title	05:48
+perlDreamer	body	05:48
+perlDreamer	all variables	05:48
+perlDreamer	and then ISA relationships to pull in other template vars from other entries	05:49
+perlDreamer	oh, and have JT tell you where to find my documentation presentation from the 2005 WUC.	05:49
@preaction	i should put Event and Calendar help in different places? even thought the Calendar is where people will probably expect to find Event help?	05:50
+perlDreamer	yes	05:50
+perlDreamer	1 file per Asset	05:51
+perlDreamer	both i18n and Help	05:51
@preaction	just like i18n, k	05:51
+perlDreamer	Even the Wiki is done that way	05:51
+perlDreamer	I'm going to try a VPN connection into work, I may drop out for a bit	05:51
@preaction	k	05:52
@preaction	perlDreamer: this huge datastructure is kind of ugly, is there a specific reason it's all done as one big one and not broken up into multiple statements?	05:56
PedersenMJ	Hey, Radix, to return the favor for firebug last night, here's a mostly equivalent tool for IE: http://www.ieinspector.com/	05:57
+perlDreamer	I'm in!	05:57
+perlDreamer	which huge ugly datastructure are we talking about?	05:57
@preaction	the Help one	05:57
+perlDreamer	How would you break it up?	05:57
@preaction	$HELP->{"calendar add/edit"} = $calendarAddEditPage; $calendarAddEditPage->{fields} = []; ->{related} = []; etc...	05:58
@preaction	basically build the hash for a page, and then add it to the main hash	05:58
+perlDreamer	It's perl code. You can do that.	05:58
+perlDreamer	Have a look inside the Macros.pm Help file	05:58
+perlDreamer	near "list of macros"	05:59
@preaction	where it's using subs instead of text?	05:59
@preaction	hooray anonymous subs ;)	05:59
+perlDreamer	yeah, site specific listing of your macros	06:02
+perlDreamer	It's just perl code	06:02
+perlDreamer	so long as it builds the final data structure and you indent exactly the way as all the other files, knock yourself out.	06:02
@preaction	well, the indentation will change to adhere to PBP, because they aren't such horribly nested data structures some of the indentation won't be necessary	06:03
@preaction	i'll do it and see how pretty i can make it, and then if i fail, i'll just run Data::Dumper and take that output ;)	06:03
+perlDreamer	perltidy will cure all ills	06:04
PedersenMJ	JT, quick question: I'm putting a link to WDR in the article I'm working on. Is this link (https://www.plainblack.com/services/wdr) likely to change in the near term future?	06:05
PedersenMJ	Some of the discussions on the forums seemed to indicate it might.	06:05
@rizen	shouldn't	06:05
PedersenMJ	Okay. Just wanted to make sure. Thank you.	06:05
@rizen	at least not until april/may	06:05
PedersenMJ	Well, that means this article should be visible without change for at least two months, so that's all I can ask for.	06:08
@rizen	i'm not saying it will change then, just that it's safe until then	06:08
@rizen	it will likely stay there for a year	06:09
PedersenMJ	Which is even better. Heck, having a stable link for a week is sometimes a miracle on the web.	06:10
@preaction	ok, so "fields" are URL parameters, and "variables" are template variables	06:17
PedersenMJ	BTW, I'd like to thank whomever integrated the mce editor. It might seem silly to say this, but having it remember the size of the textbox from one edit to another is a very nice usability feature. I appreciate it.	06:18
+perlDreamer	fields are form parameters with hoverHelp	06:19
+perlDreamer	does anyone have a website that they'd like to sacrifice/donate for the testing of my new upgrade script?	06:19
@preaction	perlDreamer: so normal URL parameters are not documented? ones w/o hoverHelp? like as in a Search form?	06:20
PedersenMJ	pd: How soon do you need it? I could make one tomorrow for it.	06:21
+perlDreamer	PedersenMJ: it needs to have an extensive collaboration system	06:22
@preaction	perlDreamer: is it committed? i can do it	06:22
@preaction	oh	06:22
+perlDreamer	It's not committed yet.	06:22
@preaction	i can pull a dump of pb.com and we can test it on that	06:22
+perlDreamer	preaction: hidden URL params would not be documented, only user interface level stuff	06:22
+perlDreamer	unless they were template variables required for a template Event form to work, for example	06:23
@preaction	so a search form, those would be	06:23
@preaction	and the hidden "recurId" field on the Event form would be	06:23
+perlDreamer	only because it would be a template variable required to build the form	06:23
@preaction	right	06:23
+perlDreamer	check out the Post Help. The edit interface is documented as a template, not as a form.	06:24
@preaction	but like when documenting the search page, would i not say "these fields are required and this is what they do to the search results returned?"	06:24
@preaction	i can't do both?	06:24
+perlDreamer	if your form is templated, do them all	06:24
@preaction	well, admittedly, the form is built using template vars	06:24
+perlDreamer	there you go	06:25
+perlDreamer	this is a template	06:25
@preaction	should i just make a remark about "passing in the 'start=' parameter on the first visit to this page will set the "startDate" field	06:25
+perlDreamer	not unless the user can do it via a UI element	06:26
+perlDreamer	the 7.3.9 changlog entry is reminiscent of the 6.x series	06:27
+perlDreamer	it's huge!	06:27
@preaction	no, the user themselves can't, the idea is that template designers should	06:27
+perlDreamer	rizen: I'm committing the Post rating work	06:28
+perlDreamer	beware	06:28
@rizen	cool	06:28
@rizen	pd: remember the form/profile stuff?	06:28
* perlDreamer quavers		06:29
+perlDreamer	I wasn't going to mention that	06:29
+perlDreamer	how many other volunteers have the distinction of completely messing up almost all aspects of WebGUI?	06:30
@preaction	i built an upgrade that trashed data?	06:30
+perlDreamer	no	06:30
+perlDreamer	well, you're paid to do that	06:30
+perlDreamer	:)	06:30
+perlDreamer	I did it pro bono	06:30
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@preaction	i'm sorry	06:32
@rizen	i think you're the only one pd	06:32
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@rizen	but that's just one of the many reasons we love you	06:32
+perlDreamer	I break stuff	06:32
+perlDreamer	I test stuff	06:32
+perlDreamer	I document stuff	06:32
+perlDreamer	not necessarily in that order	06:32
@preaction	i won't mention that everyone who's had their hand in the Calendar has caused a bug ;)	06:32
@preaction	damn roy and his needs	06:33
* preaction resolves to write better code so it's not so easy to break stuff		06:33
@preaction	lemme pastebin my "cleaner" help code	06:34
+perlDreamer	well, having done the rating stuff, I'll have a look at Susan's reply stuff next	06:34
PedersenMJ	Sorry for the idle. Wish I could have helped pd.	06:35
+perlDreamer	I always appreciate the offer to help	06:35
@preaction	http://rafb.net/p/LWzTeM69.html <- comments?	06:36
@preaction	i'm not liking the push statements so much anymore	06:37
+perlDreamer	here's the defining test	06:37
+perlDreamer	what shell do you use, preaction?	06:37
@preaction	bash	06:37
+perlDreamer	do you have a valid WebGUI.conf sitting around?	06:37
@preaction	indeed	06:37
+perlDreamer	export WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/myConf.conf	06:37
+perlDreamer	cd /data/WebGUI/t	06:38
+perlDreamer	prove i18n/ Help/	06:38
+perlDreamer	if that passes, you're golden	06:38
@preaction	but code format-wise, is it readable?	06:38
+perlDreamer	I'm so used to the big datastructure that the disambiguation is a little vague for me	06:38
@preaction	could probably use more comments	06:39
@preaction	tests pass, should I set CODE_COP?	06:41
+perlDreamer	no	06:42
+perlDreamer	CODE_COP implements my code scanning tests for i18n and setHelp	06:42
+perlDreamer	it's a mini PPI	06:42
+perlDreamer	very slow	06:42
+perlDreamer	I should inline both scans in one and then write out data to be used for both tests	06:42
@preaction	at any rate, they passed	06:43
+perlDreamer	then it's good Help	06:43
+perlDreamer	regardless of format	06:43
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+perlDreamer	preaction: can you take a look at this for a sec?	06:45
+perlDreamer	http://rafb.net/p/LWzTeM69.html	06:45
+perlDreamer	uh, no	06:45
@preaction	i remember that!	06:45
+perlDreamer	$self->get("dateSubmitted") eq $self->get("dateUpdated")	06:45
@preaction	looks like clean code	06:45
+perlDreamer	that one	06:45
+perlDreamer	I have tests that fail due to that all the time	06:45
@preaction	what Asset is that?	06:45
+perlDreamer	Post	06:46
+perlDreamer	Think about it this way instead	06:46
@preaction	they're epoch times no?	06:46
+perlDreamer	$self->get("dateSubmitted") - $self->get("dateUpdated")	06:46
+perlDreamer	epoch times	06:46
+perlDreamer	yes	06:46
+perlDreamer	If that difference > 0, that does it mean?	06:47
@preaction	what's the failure reasing?	06:47
@preaction	it means that it's been updated since it was submitted	06:47
@preaction	OR that the last time it was "updated" by something is after it was submitted	06:47
+perlDreamer	not always	06:47
@preaction	why not?	06:48
+perlDreamer	what if it was submitted at 0.99999999999999999999999 seconds but updated at 1.00000000000000000001 seconds	06:48
+perlDreamer	epoch times are integer seconds	06:48
@preaction	so they can be equal	06:48
+perlDreamer	but they can also be non-equal, and valid	06:48
@preaction	as long as dateUpdated is greater than or equal to dateSubmitted, it should be valid	06:49
+perlDreamer	what about editing posts?	06:49
@preaction	that should update the dateUpdated field, not the dateSubmitted field (imho)	06:50
@preaction	but isn't that already in assetData as "lastUpdated"?	06:50
@preaction	same with dateSubmitted, isn't that in asset as "creationDate"?	06:50
@preaction	i mean, if these fields do what they sound like they do	06:51
+perlDreamer	need to ask TMRFE	06:51
+perlDreamer	rizen: Thy presence is humbly requested	06:51
* perlDreamer mouths the arcane lingo		06:52
@preaction	shh. it's 11:00p	06:52
@rizen	yes sirs	06:52
@rizen	is the question what's the difference between dateSubmitted and dateUpdated?	06:52
+perlDreamer	In a Post, how are dateUpdated and dateSubmitted different from creationDate and lastUpdated?	06:52
@rizen	ah	06:52
@rizen	let's take dateUpdated and lastUpdated cuz it's eaiser	06:53
@rizen	easier	06:53
+perlDreamer	k	06:53
@rizen	dateUpdated is the time when the poster last did something to the post	06:53
@rizen	where lastUpdated is the time the post was last modified	06:54
@rizen	which could be by the system	06:54
@rizen	via workflows	06:54
@rizen	or any other asset access	06:54
+perlDreamer	they're when user level actions took place	06:54
+perlDreamer	I see	06:54
@rizen	yes	06:54
+perlDreamer	I went looking for another bug to fix	06:55
@rizen	dateSubmitted is the same for creation	06:55
+perlDreamer	and I found one where replies are not being counted	06:55
@rizen	however, currently in the system, there is no difference between the two	06:55
@rizen	dateSubmitted and creationDate	06:55
@rizen	i mean	06:55
+perlDreamer	I think it's due to this: return $self->get("dateSubmitted") eq $self->get("dateUpdated");	06:55
+perlDreamer	it reminds me of the failing tests due to truncated integer epoch times	06:56
@rizen	oooh, you should never rely on that	06:56
@rizen	or whoever write it	06:56
@rizen	wrote it	06:56
@rizen	which is probably me	06:56
+perlDreamer	I'm thinking a better way may be to count revisions?	06:56
+perlDreamer	but they may be system level changes	06:57
@rizen	counting revisions isn't good either	06:57
@rizen	because revisions can be deleted from the system	06:57
@rizen	during slough	06:57
@rizen	what is this check used for?	06:57
+perlDreamer	incrementing replies	06:57
@rizen	why does that have anything to do with replies?	06:58
+perlDreamer	sub commit in Post	06:58
+perlDreamer	notifies subscribers	06:58
+perlDreamer	and karma check and increment replies if new	06:58
gooeybot	check and increment replies if new has neutral karma	06:58
@rizen	i'm not seeing that in commit()	06:59
@rizen	are you sure it's not another method?	06:59
+perlDreamer	line 142 of Asset/Post.pm	06:59
@rizen	i know where the commit method is	06:59
@rizen	i'm saying i don't see that check	06:59
@rizen	there's no comparison of dateSubmitted to dateUpdated in Post::commit()	07:00
+perlDreamer	if ($self->isNew) -> quantifies the karma and incrementReplies	07:00
+perlDreamer	isNew does that check	07:00
@rizen	oh, isNew...	07:00
@rizen	why didn't you tell me that	07:00
+perlDreamer	I'm old	07:00
PedersenMJ	g'night all. it's early, but I've been needing more sleep lately. See y'all manana!	07:00
-!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui []		07:01
+perlDreamer	actually, we can test this directly.	07:01
+perlDreamer	can you do a query on PB.com?	07:01
+perlDreamer	this thread has 1 reply, but no counted replies	07:02
+perlDreamer	http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support/wiki-weirdness-and-browser-crash#UIXGb0g5I7SEUcGESmaj6w	07:02
@rizen	i think a better check would be this	07:02
+perlDreamer	if the dateUpdated and dateSubmitted are different, then that's definitely the problem	07:02
@rizen	$self->get("status") ne "approved" && $self->getTagCount == 1	07:02
@rizen	strike that	07:03
@rizen	this would be better	07:03
@rizen	$self->get("status") eq "pending" && $self->getTagCount == 1	07:03
+perlDreamer	if we edit a post is the status set back to pending?	07:04
@preaction	a revision is added, so tagCount is greater than one	07:04
@rizen	mysql> select dateSubmitted,dateUpdated from Post where assetId='UIXGb0g5I7SEUcGESmaj6w';	07:05
@rizen	+---------------+-------------+	07:05
@preaction	but i don't think that will work, isNew is only ever called after $self->SUPER::commit, so wouldn't "status" be approved?	07:05
@rizen	\| dateSubmitted \| dateUpdated \|	07:05
@rizen	+---------------+-------------+	07:05
@rizen	\| 1170202886 \| 1170202887 \|	07:05
@rizen	+---------------+-------------+	07:05
@rizen	1 row in set (0.00 sec)	07:05
+perlDreamer	yup	07:05
+perlDreamer	okay, I'll make the change	07:05
@rizen	that revision is pending	07:05
+perlDreamer	it is?	07:05
@rizen	yes the revision	07:05
gooeybot	the revision is, like, added, so tagCount is greater than one	07:05
@rizen	not the old one	07:05
@rizen	the new revision is pending	07:06
+perlDreamer	I'll add the new conditional. Do you also want an upgrade script to fix the replies?	07:06
@rizen	ok then don't check whether it's pending or not	07:07
@rizen	just check tag count	07:07
@preaction	am i lagging?	07:07
@rizen	i'm lagging in my reading	07:07
+perlDreamer	there was a system level lag, preaction	07:07
@preaction	oh, k	07:07
@rizen	so my responses are lagging	07:07
@rizen	hmmm. let's think this over	07:07
@rizen	before you make this change	07:08
+perlDreamer	oh	07:08
@rizen	maybe my new solution isn't so hot either	07:08
+perlDreamer	you always want to be reasonable and careful	07:08
+perlDreamer	you'll never break code doing that	07:08
@rizen	the problem with my new solution is if the post gets sent back for edits before posting	07:08
@rizen	i don't know if that creates a new version tag or reuses the old one	07:09
@rizen	it should reuse the old one	07:09
@rizen	but i don't know for sure	07:09
+perlDreamer	I'll make a post and ask for a preview	07:09
@rizen	preview won't do anything	07:09
@rizen	it doesn't actually submit the data	07:09
@rizen	on your local copy set up the cs to require approval	07:10
@rizen	then reject your post	07:11
@rizen	and edit it	07:11
@rizen	then approve it	07:11
@rizen	and see how many tags you have	07:11
+perlDreamer	I can't send emails from my box	07:15
@rizen	you don't need to	07:15
@rizen	check your inbox	07:15
+perlDreamer	it's empty	07:15
@rizen	from the admin console	07:15
@rizen	do you have spectre running?	07:15
+perlDreamer	up and running	07:16
@rizen	and did you commit your cs before making a post to it so that it knew to run the commit with approval workflow	07:16
+perlDreamer	no	07:16
@preaction	how did it allow you to make a post to it?	07:16
@rizen	cuz it already existed	07:16
patspam	WebGUI::Form::IntSlider.pm, line 146, calls WebGUI::Form::integer (lowercase) instead of WebGUI::Form::Integer (uppercase)	07:16
@preaction	oh	07:16
@rizen	he's just making an edit	07:16
patspam	giving me errors in my wobject	07:17
@rizen	patspam: doesn't matter	07:17
patspam	Couldn't call method doAdd on asset for url: home/portal/p2 Root cause: Can't locate object method "new" via package "WebGUI::Form::integer" (perhaps you forgot to load "WebGUI::Form::integer"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/IntSlider.pm line 146.	07:17
@rizen	oh, wait, it does matter in that case	07:17
patspam	heh	07:17
@rizen	it only doesn't matter in WebGUI::Form	07:17
@rizen	or WebGUI::HTMLForm	07:17
@rizen	but calling it directly it does	07:17
@rizen	i'll make the change in the core	07:18
patspam	ta	07:18
patspam	Couldn't call method doAdd on asset for url: home/portal/p2 Root cause: Can't locate object method "new" via package "WebGUI::Form::integer" (perhaps you forgot to load "WebGUI::Form::integer"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/IntSlider.pm line 146.	07:18
patspam	oops	07:18
patspam	double-paste	07:18
patspam	btw I'm not calling WebGUI::Form::integer directly, I'm calling IntSlider	07:18
@rizen	yeah, but intslider is calling it directly	07:19
@rizen	rather than going through WebGUI::FOrm	07:19
patspam	yep :)	07:19
@rizen	fixed in core	07:20
patspam	awesome, ta	07:23
@rizen	what is ta?	07:24
+perlDreamer	ta, like in ta-ta	07:25
@preaction	perlbot ta	07:25
+perlDreamer	how do I check the number of tags?	07:25
patspam	ha, no, it means thanks	07:25
@preaction	perlbot doesn't know	07:25
@preaction	$self->getTagCount	07:25
@preaction	or select count(*) from assetData where assetId=<your ID>;	07:25
@rizen	preaction, second way won't work	07:26
@rizen	without distinct	07:26
@preaction	?func=manageRevisions, however many revisions you have?	07:26
@rizen	and you should always use api	07:26
@preaction	of course, i was just thinking he was just checking this raw to make sure that $self->getTagsCount will work	07:26
+perlDreamer	2	07:27
@preaction	that's not the right answer :(	07:27
+perlDreamer	well, we can either change isNew or fix why the dateSubmitted and dateUpdated are different.	07:28
@preaction	what if there's only one approved version in the database, would that be as good isNew?	07:29
@preaction	perlDreamer: so basically most times i add something to i18n for an asset, i should add something to Help?	07:30
+perlDreamer	yes	07:31
@rizen	hmmm...what other ways can we determine if it isNew	07:31
+perlDreamer	the funny thing is it should work right	07:31
+perlDreamer	both dateUpdated and dateSubmitted are updated with the same timestamp	07:32
+perlDreamer	$now=time();	07:32
+perlDreamer	$newSelf->update({threadId=>$newSelf->getId, dateSubmitted=>$now});	07:32
+perlDreamer	$newSelf->update({	07:32
+perlDreamer	isHidden => 1,	07:32
+perlDreamer	dateUpdated=>$now,	07:32
+perlDreamer	});	07:32
@rizen	hmm	07:32
+perlDreamer	yeah	07:32
@rizen	well then maybe we shuld just fix it, like you said	07:33
@rizen	and leave isNew alone	07:33
@rizen	do you know at what point it's getting corrupted?	07:34
+perlDreamer	no	07:34
+perlDreamer	I can only see 1 thing that might happen	07:34
+perlDreamer	but it's bad	07:34
+perlDreamer	if the compiler optimized away $now and replaced it with time(), then you could get different calls in both places.	07:34
+perlDreamer	there's no way to fix that	07:34
+perlDreamer	neither dateUpdated nor dateSubmitted are changed anywhere else that I can find	07:35
@rizen	holy crap	07:35
@rizen	that's very bad	07:35
+perlDreamer	it can't be it	07:35
@rizen	how else is it off	07:36
+perlDreamer	what else touches the Post table after addRevision?	07:36
patspam	hmm setting minimum to anything other than 0 on IntSlider seems to break it, same for HexSlider	07:37
@rizen	processPropertiesFromPost()	07:37
@rizen	postProcess()	07:37
@rizen	patspam, then report a bug	07:38
patspam	will do	07:38
@rizen	patspam, also, check out the use of the code in the image stuff	07:38
@rizen	that's where they're used in webgui	07:38
@rizen	but i think they start at 9	07:38
@rizen	0	07:38
+perlDreamer	nope and nope	07:39
@rizen	perlDreamer: that is ignorant and racist	07:40
+perlDreamer	dateSubmitted and dateUpdated only appear to be written in addRevision	07:40
+perlDreamer	"nope" is racist?	07:40
@rizen	yup	07:40
@rizen	you're clearly trying to keep my people down	07:41
+perlDreamer	back to the keyboard, codeSlave!	07:41
@rizen	i don't know man	07:42
+perlDreamer	Let me try something out.	07:42
+perlDreamer	I'll pastebin it	07:42
patspam	fixed it, the javascript fn $slider.setMinimum() at line 325 of Slider.pm doesn't like having its argument quoted	07:46
patspam	strangely $slider.setMaximum() doesn't care	07:46
+perlDreamer	rizen: http://rafb.net/p/AmHuwp99.html	07:50
@rizen	isn't line 3 of modified broken	07:52
+perlDreamer	better hope not. I didn't touch that part :)	07:52
+perlDreamer	If dateUpdated and dateSubmitted are made on the same update, it should use the same time for both.	07:53
@rizen	it's different	07:53
@rizen	it's different between the two versions	07:53
+perlDreamer	lines 3 and 18 are the same	07:54
@rizen	$newSelf->update({threadId=>$newSelf->getId, dateSubmitted=>$now}, dateUpdated=>$now);	07:54
@rizen	$newSelf->update({threadId=>$newSelf->getId, dateSubmitted=>$now});	07:54
@rizen	see hhow they are different	07:54
@rizen	i have them flip flopped	07:54
@rizen	line 3 of modified	07:54
@rizen	not line 1	07:54
@rizen	line 20 on pastebin	07:54
@rizen	vs line 5	07:55
@rizen	sorry, didn't even notice that pastebin had numbers	07:55
+perlDreamer	okay, I see it	07:55
+perlDreamer	that can be fixed, but the concept should still be good	07:55
@rizen	refine it even further	07:55
@rizen	get rid of all the updates	07:55
@rizen	just create variables	07:55
@rizen	and do 1 update at the end	07:56
@rizen	or a hashref	07:56
gooeybot	a hashref is, like, slick	07:56
+perlDreamer	okay	07:56
@rizen	your idea will work if the optimization theory is correct	07:57
+perlDreamer	if it's correct, I'll be scared	07:57
@rizen	the shitty part is there's no real way to test that theory	07:57
+perlDreamer	it takes time. If we don't have any more funky reply posts then it's fixed	07:57
@rizen	i hate those kinds of fixes	07:58
+perlDreamer	I'll work on this. Let's sit on it overnight and think about it.	07:58
+perlDreamer	Tomorrow morning we'll be frustrated with doing support and much more likely to understand what's going on	07:59
@preaction	i don't get your logic, but i like what what you said	07:59
+perlDreamer	rizen: http://rafb.net/p/hkvfYO28.html	08:07
@rizen	2 changes	08:08
@rizen	dateSubmitted only gets set if you're in the first if	08:08
@rizen	same with threadId	08:08
@rizen	want me to rewrite or do you get me?	08:09
+perlDreamer	I get you	08:09
+perlDreamer	dateSubmitted should be dateUpdated, to preserve the original	08:09
@rizen	don't think you get me	08:09
+perlDreamer	you better rewrite	08:10
@rizen	rewriting	08:10
@rizen	http://rafb.net/p/WIQfV812.html	08:13
@rizen	methinks that's better	08:13
@rizen	do you see?	08:14
+perlDreamer	yes, but I was trying to keep the reads of $now to be very close	08:15
@rizen	or did i screw up?	08:15
@rizen	we're talking ms here, cuz the update is what takes a long time	08:15
@rizen	i suppose get parent could take a long time	08:15
@rizen	let me reorder	08:16
@rizen	http://rafb.net/p/SgVx2N67.html	08:17
@rizen	can't get much closer	08:17
+perlDreamer	no	08:17
@rizen	the only other way to fix this	08:18
@rizen	is to set dateSubmitted	08:18
@rizen	update	08:18
@rizen	then read the dateSubmitted into dateUpdated	08:18
@rizen	and update again	08:18
@rizen	which is much slower	08:18
+perlDreamer	but all of this depends on my crazy idea being right	08:18
+perlDreamer	and in that case slower doesn't matter	08:18
+perlDreamer	it used to call update 3 times	08:18
@rizen	true	08:18
+perlDreamer	we could subtract dateSubmitted from dateUpdated, take the abs and then make sure it's less than or equal to 1	08:21
+perlDreamer	abs(dateSubmitted-dateUpdated) <= 1	08:21
@preaction	what if 2 seconds pass? or for some reason 3?	08:23
@preaction	system lag perhaps?	08:23
+perlDreamer	you're right, that's just a bandaid	08:23
+perlDreamer	it should be the same time	08:23
+perlDreamer	this whole solution is predicated on the compiler optimizing $now back into time()	08:24
@preaction	i don't see why it would	08:24
+perlDreamer	well, we know that dateSubmitted != dateUpdated in the db	08:24
@preaction	but then again, perl does strange things	08:24
+perlDreamer	it's just a question of how it got that way	08:24
+perlDreamer	Asset::Post::addRevision is the only place in the codebase where those variables are set	08:25
+perlDreamer	I grep'ed the whole thing to check	08:25
+perlDreamer	preaction: I'm getting ready to crash. Any last second doc questions?	08:27
@preaction	instead of setting them both to $now, set one to $now and then the other to that one? durno	08:27
@preaction	um... not that i know of	08:28
+perlDreamer	okay, I'm outta here	08:30
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 01 11:38:44 2007
--- Log opened Thu Feb 01 11:43:54 2007
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@khenn	wow I didn't get dropped?	16:52
@khenn	amazing	16:53
@khenn	anyone around this morning?	16:53
-!- khenn is now known as khenn_afk		16:54
@preaction	morning	17:11
pjesi_	afternoon	17:11
@preaction	LIES!	17:11
Meatbop	mornin	17:11
@preaction	khenn was just asking what's new	17:11
xdanger	afternoon	17:12
@preaction	names	17:12
@preaction	er...	17:12
xdanger	preaction: was it you who wrote the new calendar?	17:12
@preaction	yes'm	17:12
@preaction	i accept full responsibility and will commit seppuku immediately	17:12
* preaction SEPPUKU!		17:12
xdanger	Is there a way to list events for more than a month?	17:12
xdanger	seppuku?-)	17:13
@preaction	no, it was decided that the reason for that was poor navigation	17:13
xdanger	sounds like something for anime...	17:13
@preaction	(ninja's ritual suicide when they fail)	17:13
xdanger	I have a client with a training schedule... they have like 1-3 a month.. so the old calendar was great...	17:14
xdanger	http://www.datapartner.fi/en/news--events/events/workshops	17:14
@preaction	add an RFE, the code for it shouldn't be exceedingly hard	17:14
xdanger	we'll.. I was going to upgrade today...	17:15
xdanger	er...	17:15
xdanger	I'll have a look at the code, and if I have any idea of how to do it, I'll just make a patch and send that to you ;)	17:15
@preaction	how good are you at SQLReports?	17:15
@preaction	xdanger: when you look at the code, get the latest SVN, i did a lot of code formatting updates to make it easier to read	17:16
@khenn_afk	you can template 3 months at a time using HTML::Template::Expr now	17:16
@preaction	khenn_afk: how?	17:16
@khenn_afk	I'm still afk	17:16
@khenn_afk	set a var	17:16
@khenn_afk	and do a % 3 on it	17:17
@preaction	3 months? the Calendar does not give three months, the EventsCalendar did, the new one does not	17:17
@khenn_afk	oh I see	17:17
@khenn_afk	you only get 1 month at a time	17:17
@khenn_afk	nm	17:17
@khenn_afk	back to afk status	17:17
@preaction	remember, future consideration?	17:17
@preaction	k	17:17
@preaction	xdanger: the best way to do it is to start sending an explicit "endDate" parameter to viewMonth/viewWeek/viewDay, and those are called from the main "view" method	17:19
@preaction	xdanger: so the "view" method will have to get "endDate" from the url params, and/or from a configuration value	17:19
@preaction	i anticipate a good 3-4 hours of hacking to put that feature in	17:20
@preaction	but i've got bugs to fix and a support bugfix to make on the Export HTML feature	17:20
@preaction	i'll be working until 8:00p CT, so if you have questions about the calendar just ask	17:21
@preaction	on a different topic, this website is absolutely beautiful	17:21
ckotil	link?	17:22
Meatbop	which site are you checking out ?	17:22
ckotil	heh. im working in a version tag that has ~ 5 pages of changes. i cant wait to commit it sometime today. one of our customers recently underwent a name change.	17:23
pjesi_	xdanger: how do you provide the different languages?	17:24
pjesi_	does each tree use different i18n?	17:25
@snapcount	Doug: I'm going to help you with Calendar stuff if you want as soon as I'm done with EMS	17:26
@snapcount	I think it's the biggest hurdle left on the bug list aside from EMS	17:26
@snapcount	err	17:26
@snapcount	preaction:	17:27
@snapcount	sorry	17:27
xdanger	pjesi_: no, there are just different branches for each language..	17:27
@snapcount	I want an empty list, it would be so freaking awesome to clear the bug list	17:27
bopbop_	CB++	17:27
xdanger	must go to late lunch now -->	17:27
@snapcount	that too	17:27
@snapcount	lunch? you live in Europe I guess?	17:28
pjesi_	xdanger: what about the template labels?	17:28
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@preaction	snapcount: thanks for the offer, there are some large ones that will be problematic, the main ones being an i18n audit, and the Help files. I'm going to submit what I have now, and then update the status of the existing bugs	17:35
@preaction	I have an assignment from DoS to fix the Export HTML thingy, and then I'm back on Calendar bugs	17:36
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Jamie] by snapcount		17:36
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@preaction	so i'm here, but i'm away, busy, and will get to your requests for my presence later	17:36
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Meatbop] by snapcount		17:36
@preaction	to anyone who wants to work on calendar bugs: i've wrote some pretty detailed descriptions on what exactly needs to be done to fix them	17:48
@preaction	i'm moving to the DoS assignment and i'll probably be back around 1p	17:49
@Meatbop	god speed	17:49
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@rizen	sorry guys, been on support calls all morning	17:58
@rizen	still am	17:59
@preaction	when i'm exporting HTML for an asset, do I really need to open a new session for each asset I export? can't I just make one new session and point the output to the correct file each time?	18:04
* preaction got stuck fixing Drake's code, but this is paid-for work		18:05
@rizen	yes you need a new one	18:09
@preaction	k	18:10
@rizen	because otherwise certain flags get set	18:10
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+perlDreamer	morning guys	18:36
@preaction	morning	18:36
+perlDreamer	how's the calendar hacking?	18:37
@preaction	stalled for a priority bugfix on the AssetExportHtml feature	18:37
@preaction	but this time, i think i can make it work for 99.9% of cases	18:37
+perlDreamer	cool	18:37
+perlDreamer	any bug that gets fixed	18:37
+perlDreamer	just write a test for it so we'll know in advance in the future if it breaks	18:38
@preaction	i submitted my barely updated Calendar docs, and described in detail the things that need to be fixed on the Calendar in the appropriate bug threads	18:38
+perlDreamer	I was going to take a hack at the little Slider bug	18:38
+perlDreamer	and then hoping to do some more $now/Post reply stuff	18:38
@preaction	i'll try. i believe i have to fix the test roy wrote for it, since i changed what the sub does	18:38
@preaction	you didn't get that last night? you were close, no?	18:38
+perlDreamer	close, but it still feels wrong	18:39
+perlDreamer	Perl should not do that	18:39
@preaction	i don't understand it myself, do the #perl people have anything to say on the issue?	18:39
+perlDreamer	I haven't asked over there.	18:39
@preaction	they know quite a bit, some internals hackers in there	18:40
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@snapcount	perlDreamer: how does the linking between a template and the help icon work	18:49
+perlDreamer	There's no direct linking	18:50
@snapcount	I want the help for the template they are viewing to pop up when they click the icon, not the generic help for all templates	18:50
+perlDreamer	oh	18:50
+perlDreamer	I don't think there's anyway to do that	18:50
+perlDreamer	that would be good though!	18:50
+perlDreamer	real good	18:50
@preaction	perhaps something in the right-side list of stuff "Help for this template"	18:50
+perlDreamer	In fact, help topic awareness is one of the requirements for the template variable editor	18:50
@snapcount	ok... put it on wish list then... I thought I was doing something wrong	18:50
@snapcount	=)	18:51
+perlDreamer	It's RFE-able	18:51
@snapcount	I like that term	18:51
@snapcount	you should trademark it	18:51
@snapcount	pdc?	18:51
@snapcount	gooeybot: what is pDC?	18:51
gooeybot	i don't know, snapcount	18:51
@snapcount	didn't you teach him that?	18:51
@preaction	snapcount: quick, what do you expect to happen when you make a url "index.html/" when you export an asset with that url?	18:51
@snapcount	oh well	18:51
+perlDreamer	snapcount: that was perlbot	18:52
@preaction	perlbot pdc	18:52
+perlDreamer	perlbot: what is pDC?	18:52
perlbot	Perl Dreamer's Association of associated thoughts and references that are usually puzzling and always genius for the solving of complex problems in the language of thy camel our lord as spoken by WebGUI the savior of all things cool	18:52
perlbot	I already have an entry for what	18:52
@snapcount	create a file called index.html in the starting export directory	18:52
@preaction	gooeybot: pdc is Perl Dreamer's Association of associated thoughts and references that are usually puzzling and always genius for the solving of complex problems in the language of thy camel our lord as spoken by WebGUI the savior of all things cool	18:52
gooeybot	OK, preaction.	18:52
@preaction	pdc?	18:52
gooeybot	pdc is Perl Dreamer's Association of associated thoughts and references that are usually puzzling and always genius for the solving of complex problems in the language of thy camel our lord as spoken by WebGUI the savior of all things cool	18:52
@preaction	snapcount: so trailing /'s should just be ignored	18:53
+perlDreamer	gooeybot: RFE-able is That idea is worthy of an RFE. The term is trademarked by perlDreamer Consulting.	18:53
gooeybot	OK, perlDreamer.	18:53
@snapcount	sure... I don't even think WebGUI will keep it anyways	18:53
+perlDreamer	oy, I'm a sophist	18:53
@preaction	k, sounds good	18:53
@snapcount	if you set a url to home/	18:53
@snapcount	it will change it to home	18:53
@snapcount	pretty sure anyway	18:53
@snapcount	I was probably over zealous in my test cases =P	18:54
@preaction	i've narrowed your _translate sub to two cases: one with . and one without ., i'm updating the tests and once they pass i'll fix the ordering of the export	18:54
@snapcount	sweet	18:54
@snapcount	nice work man	18:54
+perlDreamer	um, AssetExportHtml is broken	18:54
@snapcount	yeah	18:54
@snapcount	I broke it	18:54
@preaction	it's been broken for a long-ass time	18:54
@snapcount	but it was broke before I broke it too	18:54
+perlDreamer	Failed to require package 'WebGUI::Session'. Reason: 'Global symbol "$assetSession" requires explicit package name at /data/WebGUI/lib//WebGUI/AssetExportHtml.pm line 148.	18:54
+perlDreamer	Global symbol "$assetSession" requires explicit package name at /data/WebGUI/lib//WebGUI/AssetExportHtml.pm line 149.	18:54
@snapcount	I just broke it different	18:54
+perlDreamer	not that kind of broke :)	18:54
@snapcount	that wasn't me	18:55
+perlDreamer	If I patch that, (needing my) will I break anyone's commit?	18:55
@snapcount	someone else gets credit for that	18:55
@snapcount	preaction is the one working on it	18:55
@preaction	that was me, that's fixed	18:56
@preaction	let me update SVN now	18:56
+perlDreamer	thanks, man	18:56
@snapcount	perlDreamer: the title of my new help page is not showing up in the help index... what makes that work?	18:57
+perlDreamer	that's usually a broken i18n link	18:57
+perlDreamer	cd /data/WebGUI/t; prove Help/ i18n/	18:57
@snapcount	I need the perlDreamer rosetta stone	19:00
@snapcount	label: Asset_EventManagementSystem->errorLoop inside Asset_EventManagementSystem->ems checkout template->variables'	19:00
@snapcount	what does that mean?	19:00
+perlDreamer	that means that it wasn't able to do a lookup on the errorLoop variable inside the Asset_EMS ems checkout template	19:00
+perlDreamer	that error message could definitely use some help	19:02
@snapcount	a lookup?	19:02
@snapcount	a lookup of what and where is it looking?	19:02
@snapcount	errorLoop inside i18n?	19:02
+perlDreamer	it is trying to do this: $i18n->get('errorLoop', 'Asset_EMS');	19:02
@snapcount	ok	19:02
@snapcount	ty	19:02
@snapcount	so there has to be an i18n entry for every 'name' key inside the help file?	19:05
@snapcount	I thought that was simply the name of the template variable... so why would that be i18n?	19:05
+perlDreamer	It's a shortcut	19:05
@snapcount	it's the same regardless of what language	19:05
+perlDreamer	The long form is name => 'myName', description => 'description i18n entry'	19:06
+perlDreamer	if, however, the i18n key myName isn't already being used, then you can omit the description and the Help system will look up the "descriptive i18n entry" using myName as the key.	19:07
@snapcount	so the 'name' in the help file is the key to the description of that variable inside the i18n file	19:08
+perlDreamer	it can be	19:08
+perlDreamer	that's the shortcut method	19:08
@snapcount	and if you specify a 'description' key in the help file, 'name' is ignored, and 'description' is used for the lookup?	19:09
+perlDreamer	yes	19:09
+perlDreamer	there is also 1 other key that you can set	19:09
+perlDreamer	required => 1	19:09
@snapcount	so, if you specify 'description' name does absolutely nothing then	19:09
+perlDreamer	well, it is used for the "name" of the template variable. But that's all	19:09
@snapcount	meaning the name thats displayed to the user	19:10
+perlDreamer	yes	19:10
@snapcount	no translation	19:10
+perlDreamer	right	19:10
@snapcount	ok... I think I got it then	19:10
@snapcount	thanks	19:10
xdanger	pjesi_: I use If macro heavyly on the multi-language sites...	19:12
xdanger	or create a different site if it gets to complicated... like this: http://en.luovapaja.fi/ vs. http://luovapaja.fi/	19:14
@snapcount	perlDreamer: the tests are passing but I see nothing in the index	19:16
+perlDreamer	Inside the EMS topic or in the index?	19:16
@snapcount	the index list of all help topics	19:16
@snapcount	do I need to set the CODE_COP variable?	19:17
+perlDreamer	no	19:17
@snapcount	k	19:17
+perlDreamer	CODE_COP does code level i18n and setHelp scanning	19:17
+perlDreamer	look at the HTML source for the page and look to see if there's an empty href where the entry should be	19:17
+perlDreamer	or do a commit and I'll have a look at it	19:17
+perlDreamer	or both	19:17
@snapcount	does there have to be an i18n key that matches with the main key to the entry in the help file?	19:18
+perlDreamer	like a title and a body entry in the help file? yes	19:18
+perlDreamer	otherwise there's nothing to link to	19:18
@snapcount	I have title and body	19:18
@snapcount	I was asking about the one above it	19:18
@snapcount	that contains everything for the entry	19:18
@snapcount	ok... I'll have another quick look and commit to see if you see my snafu	19:19
+perlDreamer	okay	19:19
@snapcount	I have to help out with support in like 60 seconds =)	19:19
@snapcount	doh!	19:20
@snapcount	found it... I had the tile set to Checkout Template	19:20
@snapcount	so it was there... just not where I thought it should be	19:20
+perlDreamer	Hmmm... maybe i should add a duplicate check to the Help test	19:20
@snapcount	it's now EMS Checkout Template	19:20
@snapcount	user error... my bad	19:20
+perlDreamer	It would show up correctly in the chapter	19:20
@snapcount	thx	19:20
@snapcount	everything seems right but the formatting is screwy for the tmpl vars in the loop	19:21
@snapcount	I'll check it in can you take a look?	19:22
+perlDreamer	sure	19:22
@snapcount	ty	19:22
@snapcount	ok it's checked in	19:31
@snapcount	thanks perlDreamer	19:31
+perlDreamer	np, man.	19:31
@preaction	what are Whitespace.t tests and is failure okay?	19:40
@preaction	i decided to run the tests before i committed this change (like a good boy), and Whitespace.t failed	19:41
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@preaction	pinging perlDreamer	19:43
@preaction	SYN?	19:44
+perlDreamer	brb	19:46
@preaction	nevermind, figured it out	19:48
ckotil	If i wanted to hack up the asset manager a little bit; by adding a new colum <meta data> . Where would i look to find the javascript code that creates the html for the asset manager?	19:48
@preaction	the got: 'XX' is the line number of the error	19:48
@preaction	ckotil: why?	19:48
+perlDreamer	ckotil: Asset.pm	19:48
@preaction	this doesn't sound like a good idea :(	19:48
ckotil	heh.	19:48
+perlDreamer	preaction, I already committed a fix for the whitespace	19:48
@preaction	oh, crap	19:48
@preaction	ok	19:48
ckotil	well, im just tossing around a couple ideas in my head and that was one of them.	19:48
@preaction	well, i'll merge then	19:49
ckotil	we're going to attempt to use webgui as a document mangager	19:49
ckotil	one of the views we've been thinking of is to use the asset manager. but want to be able to see meta data, or a description of the file.	19:49
ckotil	s/views/interfaces	19:50
ckotil	or i might create a new folder asset template	19:50
@preaction	ckotil: how about instead of adding a different column for the data, add another row that can be expanded/collapsed with a javascript image button	19:51
greghacke	I would still like to be able to use the Metadata: Summary from assets as a tmpl_var	19:51
ckotil	another row?	19:51
+perlDreamer	how about we template that sucker?	19:51
ckotil	each asset gets has 1 row	19:51
ckotil	template the asset manager!	19:51
@preaction	perlDreamer: might be a more permanent solution	19:52
+perlDreamer	greghacke: all the metadata is available in every asset template	19:52
ckotil	greghacke: is metadata summary differnet from metadata?	19:52
@preaction	ckotil: basically this: + [] 1 <name> <whatever> <more columns>	19:52
ckotil	yeah just tmpl_var <meta_data_name>	19:52
+perlDreamer	<tmpl_var meta_data_name>	19:53
ckotil	ah, so hit the + and a new row pops up?	19:53
@preaction	ckotil: clicking the + will show the row beneath is, which has a colspan over them all and has "description: <blah> metadata: <blah>"	19:53
ckotil	nice.	19:53
ckotil	yeah i like that.	19:53
ckotil	thx	19:53
greghacke	so... <tmpl_var summary> for the summary section of the summary area of a page or article. my intent is to actually query some of this data in an sql report	19:54
+perlDreamer	snapcount: the formatting looks okay to me. What are you seeing?	20:01
@snapcount	looking at it again I see what it is	20:03
@snapcount	isError is bolded	20:03
@snapcount	and wraps to the second line	20:03
@snapcount	so it kind of runs together with the loop variable	20:03
+perlDreamer	which browser are you using?	20:05
ckotil	preaction: while it would be real nice to write some new javascript into asset.pm so that we can use the asset manager as the interface for our file repository/DMS , i think im gonna just create a new folder asset template.	20:05
ckotil	Im looking in Help: Folder Template, and im not seeing anything about metadata.	20:06
ckotil	anyone know if metadata is part of tmpl_var for folder asseet?	20:06
+perlDreamer	metadata is automatically added to all asset templates	20:06
ckotil	perfect. thanks	20:06
+perlDreamer	it's only recently been documented.	20:06
@snapcount	perlDreamer: FF	20:08
@snapcount	it's not a big deal, more of an aesthetic thing	20:08
+perlDreamer	it looks okay to me in Mozilla 1.4 (urk). Maybe we could have Meatbop look at it?	20:08
greghacke	what broswer you all need?	20:09
+perlDreamer	it's uncommitted docs	20:09
greghacke	ah, understand.	20:09
@Meatbop	trying to catch up on what I'm being asked to look at...	20:09
@Meatbop	been on something else, can I get a sum-up?	20:10
+perlDreamer	snapcount's seeing weird things with the template variable displays in the Help	20:10
+perlDreamer	but the code's not released yet, so we can't just point you at a page	20:10
@Meatbop	screenshot would be enough for the time being	20:11
+perlDreamer	it uses <DL>'s	20:11
+perlDreamer	ckotil: I lied	20:25
+perlDreamer	it isn't documented	20:25
+perlDreamer	I'll fix that right now	20:25
ckotil	between you and me, Its OK.	20:26
@snapcount	Meatbop: I sent you a screen shot	20:28
@snapcount	via email	20:28
@Meatbop	k	20:29
@Meatbop	so i take it that error is supposed to be at the same indent as errorLoop?	20:30
+perlDreamer	no	20:30
+perlDreamer	I don't think so	20:30
+perlDreamer	error is in the loop	20:31
+perlDreamer	so it should be indented	20:31
+perlDreamer	but I haven't seen the snapshot	20:33
@Meatbop	basically the indented portion could use a line break above it.	20:34
@Meatbop	it looks just a little fugly butting up against the line right above it	20:34
+perlDreamer	what's the best way to do unfuglify it?	20:35
@Meatbop	heh	20:35
@Meatbop	snap, can you sent me the html so I can actually see what it's doing?	20:35
@Meatbop	i'll be better able to make a suggestion	20:35
+perlDreamer	done	20:36
@Meatbop	well that was quick :)	20:37
+perlDreamer	it's my bad templating	20:38
@snapcount	this proxy bug is ticking me off	20:38
@snapcount	I'm going to go eat something before I knaw the top of my monitor off	20:39
@snapcount	half eaten company owned mac book pro does not a happy rizen make	20:39
+perlDreamer	well, it _is_ an Apple	20:39
@snapcount	lol	20:39
@rizen	who's eating your laptop?	20:40
+perlDreamer	proxy bugs	20:40
@rizen	ah	20:40
+perlDreamer	have you had any epiphanies about the post reply dateUpdated/dateSubmitted bug?	20:40
@rizen	nop	20:42
@rizen	nope	20:42
@rizen	snapcount, start up spectre on your box	20:42
@rizen	do a ps	20:42
+perlDreamer	preaction suggested that we hop over to #perl and ask about the compiler optimization	20:42
@rizen	oh crap	20:42
@rizen	youc an't run spectre on your box can you?	20:43
+perlDreamer	rizen: snapcount is away	20:43
+perlDreamer	eating	20:43
@rizen	bah	20:43
@Meatbop	I think just a small css tweak will make that look good perlDreamer. Going to send it back to you with the change.	20:46
+perlDreamer	thanks	20:46
+perlDreamer	I'll be AFK for a while, but I'll get the tweak committed today	20:47
greghacke	who is Meatbop?	20:47
@preaction	steve swanson	20:48
greghacke	oh, hellow steve	20:48
greghacke	dang, i cannot spell today.	20:48
@Meatbop	s'all right	20:48
@Meatbop	i can't spell most days	20:48
greghacke	dealing with data normalization. sucks. working a style sheet at the same time	20:48
@Meatbop	sent the html pd. going to be afk for a little bit	20:52
@khenn	who wrote the weather data asset?	20:55
@khenn	anyone remember?	20:55
@preaction	i thought you said you did?	20:55
@khenn	nope	20:55
@preaction	then i don't know	20:55
@khenn	must have been Matthew Wilson	20:55
@preaction	but hum a few bars and i'll fake it	20:55
@preaction	bbl, eating	21:02
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@snapcount	I'm back	21:14
@snapcount	what did you need rizen	21:14
@snapcount	?	21:14
@rizen	are you capable of running spectre directly on your mac?	21:15
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@snapcount	no	21:18
@snapcount	just in a vm	21:18
@rizen	snap are you running spectre on your vm now?	21:31
@snapcount	yes	21:45
@snapcount	rizen: do you need me to test something?	21:45
@khenn	anyone know of a Perl module to convert HTML encodings like   to ASCII encoding   ?	21:50
@preaction	are you going to run it willy-nilly? in most cases the named version is easier to understand	21:51
@khenn	it's for RSS	21:51
@preaction	HTML::Entities	21:51
@preaction	maybe?	21:51
@khenn	RSS 2.0 doesn't seem to always support &xxx;	21:52
@khenn	but it does always support the ASCII value	21:52
@preaction	because it's xml instead of html	21:52
@khenn	right	21:52
@khenn	so I want to convert them all	21:52
@preaction	khenn: HTML::Entities, decode the vars, and then use encode_entities_numeric	21:55
@khenn	yep	21:56
@khenn	I think that may work	21:56
@khenn	gonna test it out	21:56
@khenn	thanks	21:56
@preaction	the thing is, it's using the hex, which is in HTML but is it in XML?	21:56
@khenn	is it hex?	21:57
@preaction	the docs say so	21:57
@preaction	it uses the &#x<hex number>	21:57
@khenn	yeah	21:57
@khenn	I see it now	21:57
@khenn	hmm	21:57
@khenn	I'm not sure if that will work or not	21:57
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@preaction	there are a couple instances of the hex entity being used in the XML recommendation	22:00
@khenn	yeah I think it will work	22:00
@khenn	I'm gonna test it	22:00
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@snapcount	hmm	22:05
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@khenn	heh	22:08
@khenn	well	22:08
@khenn	that didn't work =p	22:08
ckotil	Anyone know the tmpl_var to display the asset type?	22:38
@preaction	tmpl_var className might work	22:39
+perlDreamer	But it will be like WebGUI::Asset:: ...	22:39
+perlDreamer	Not just Snippet, Folder, etc.	22:39
* ckotil hrms		22:39
ckotil	yah.	22:39
+perlDreamer	use javascript to split it and return the last value?	22:40
ckotil	yeah, gonna have to.	22:40
+perlDreamer	write a macro to trim it?	22:40
ckotil	ill go the js route	22:40
+perlDreamer	that's the cool thing about you ckotil.	22:40
+perlDreamer	you're like a bulldozer	22:40
+perlDreamer	you just get it done.	22:40
ckotil	heh. its my job	22:41
ckotil	either that or get fired	22:41
ckotil	tho im starting to get some pull around here	22:41
@khenn	does anyone know if it's possible to call a function from within a regular expression?	22:41
greghacke	my job right now is to mornalize 120000 records of inventory. wanna trade?	22:41
+perlDreamer	s/(stuff)/function(stuff)/e;	22:41
@khenn	ah	22:41
@khenn	e	22:41
@khenn	thanks	22:41
ckotil	greghacke: can you write a script for it?	22:42
greghacke	i wish. each item was hand entered into a flat file. about 60% are duplicats of already existing items but there was no normalization in the data entry so one product may be entered differently for each and every item in the inventory	22:43
greghacke	i scripted the first 6 passes - now i'm going through by hand	22:43
* ckotil shudders		22:43
+perlDreamer	thanks for the CSS Meatbop. It looks better	22:47
+perlDreamer	I closed the IntSlider bug	23:02
+perlDreamer	added Meatbop's CSS	23:02
@rizen	i'm working on the spectre needs to be restarted all the time bug	23:03
+perlDreamer	that's your queueing system changes?	23:03
@rizen	yup	23:03
+perlDreamer	I feel like we're keeping pace with bugs, but that's all	23:03
@rizen	yup	23:03
@rizen	however, most of the pb staff has been on support all day	23:03
@rizen	including me	23:04
@rizen	i've only had 30 minutes to work on bugs so far today	23:04
+perlDreamer	preaction: any suggestions for etiquette over on #perl?	23:04
+perlDreamer	rizen: I'm going to hop over to #perl and ask about our optimization/compiler bug	23:04
@rizen	cool	23:04
@rizen	this ought to be interesting	23:04
@preaction	just ask, don't ask to ask, give as much info as possible, the best question i can think of to ask is this:	23:04
@preaction	something...	23:05
@preaction	something like: if I have '$now = time(); $a = $now;' and later '$b = $now', is there any reason why $a != $b?	23:06
@preaction	otherwise, as long as you avoid the big ones: asking to ask and xy problems, they're generally friendly	23:07
@preaction	perlbot xy problem	23:07
perlbot	They ask how to do X, but that's because they really want to do Y but think X will get them there and most of the time they are WRONG	23:07
+perlDreamer	all right. I'll give it a shot.	23:07
+perlDreamer	That was well laid out, I'm just going to copy and paste you over there.	23:08
@preaction	i'm there too, so i can keep half-an-eye on the situation	23:09
@preaction	merlyn's there, so i would expect brevity over politeness, but he is a Perl God	23:09
@preaction	(Randall Schwartz himself)	23:09
+perlDreamer	I know Randall	23:10
@preaction	then i'll stfu	23:10
@preaction	anyway, test-case how?	23:10
+perlDreamer	hmmm	23:14
+perlDreamer	not exactly going swimmingly	23:14
@preaction	automated asset insertion using the API? force it into causing a problem?	23:15
@preaction	if you can't do it within, say, 5000 times, maybe it's not there?	23:15
+perlDreamer	it _is_ there. We just don't understand how it got to be there.	23:16
+perlDreamer	http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support/wiki-weirdness-and-browser-crash#UIXGb0g5I7SEUcGESmaj6w	23:17
+perlDreamer	JT did a query and found dateUpdated and dateSubmitted to be different	23:18
+perlDreamer	that'd be in the IRC log from last night	23:18
@preaction	eh, eventually i usually ask "anyone else know how a variable can be two different values after being initialized with time()"	23:18
@preaction	otherwise, stress test, this is happening fairly often it should be easy to reproduce	23:19
@preaction	maybe instead of using $now that second time, use $properties->{dateSubmitted} or something	23:19
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+perlDreamer	I'll try the stress test route	23:24
ckotil	doh. i didnt realize className outputs the contaner asset	23:26
+perlDreamer	you want the class of something in the folder loop?	23:27
ckotil	yes	23:27
+perlDreamer	Is an icon okay?	23:28
ckotil	i have the icon	23:28
ckotil	just need the name now ;]	23:28
+perlDreamer	Have you tried 'type'?	23:28
ckotil	i havent.	23:29
ckotil	thanks pd	23:29
+perlDreamer	np	23:29
+perlDreamer	btw, that will be the short name, not the class name	23:30
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ckotil	yah. that way i dont have to strip it	23:30
ckotil	thx for clarifying	23:30
+perlDreamer	I'll add that to the docs.	23:31
+perlDreamer	I seem to be saying that more and more as I hang out in here.	23:31
@preaction	that's why we like you!	23:32
@preaction	<3 perlDreamer	23:32
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+perlDreamer	what is "<3" ?	23:32
ckotil	a heart	23:32
@preaction	perlbot <3	23:32
perlbot	bullshit, I'm way more than 3	23:32
@snapcount	omg	23:32
+perlDreamer	gooeybot < 2	23:33
gooeybot	perlDreamer: what?	23:33
+perlDreamer	catch a clue, gb	23:33
+perlDreamer	gooeybot <3	23:33
gooeybot	perlDreamer: sorry...	23:33
* preaction wacks gooeybot with a cluestick		23:34
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@khenn	who "fixed" RSSFromParent?	23:36
@khenn	anyone know?	23:37
+perlDreamer	svn blame?	23:37
@khenn	yeah	23:37
@khenn	good idea	23:37
@preaction	khenn: what did i break?	23:37
@khenn	not sure if you broke anything	23:37
+perlDreamer	he hasn't said what's broken.	23:38
@khenn	someone did this :	23:38
@preaction	the "fixed" kinda tipped me off to something being wrong	23:38
@khenn	if(UNIVERSAL::isa($item, 'WebGUI::Asset')) {	23:38
@khenn	...	23:38
@preaction	Drake	23:38
+perlDreamer	that's original code	23:38
@khenn	} elsif(ref $item eq 'HASH') {	23:38
@khenn	then there's a comment :	23:39
@preaction	Drake	23:39
+perlDreamer	hold on	23:39
@khenn	### This does not do any XML escaping. A way must be found to	23:39
@khenn	# recursively escape the entire data structure.	23:39
@preaction	the comment and that section is me	23:39
@preaction	well, the comment i guess isn't	23:39
+perlDreamer	I thought we were escaping inside the template now	23:39
@khenn	well, what's happening is that collaboration systems RSS feeds aren't being XML encoded	23:40
@khenn	since they return hashes	23:40
+perlDreamer	<tmpl_var whatEver ESCAPE="HTML">	23:40
@khenn	heh	23:40
@preaction	perlDreamer: it's possible that isn't working, XML != HTML	23:40
+perlDreamer	true	23:40
@khenn	it's likely	23:40
@khenn	it's not working =)	23:40
+perlDreamer	because I remember that fix	23:40
@preaction	meh, it's working better than it was :p	23:40
+perlDreamer	preaction, me and rizen did it one night. It used to error out	23:41
@khenn	it's not working at all if you have any sort of HTML in there	23:41
@khenn		23:41
@khenn	that breaks the feed	23:41
@preaction	filter them out, they aren't needed, especially	23:41
+perlDreamer	Does RSS allow HTML inside itself?	23:41
@preaction	not that i'm aware of	23:42
@khenn	ok	23:42
@khenn	ok	23:42
@khenn	I have a fix I think	23:42
@preaction	RSS isn't presentational, so non-breaking spaces are irrelvant	23:42
@khenn	I just wanted to find out why you weren't calling the _escapeXML method	23:42
@khenn	for each item	23:42
@preaction	because of the comment	23:42
@preaction	_escapeXML doesn't recursively escape the data structure	23:42
@khenn	why would it need to?	23:43
@khenn	the hash contains data	23:43
@preaction	because it's a data structure	23:43
+perlDreamer	I wonder if Sam Tregar would take another patch to H::T for escaping XML?	23:43
@khenn	what would it need to be recursive?	23:43
@khenn	s/what/why/	23:43
@preaction	it's not just a hash?	23:43
@preaction	hash of arrayrefs of hashrefs perhaps?	23:43
@preaction	template loops are array refs	23:43
@preaction	that _escapeXML was doing horrible things to those array refs	23:43
@khenn	ok	23:44
@khenn	I was just wondering	23:44
@khenn	yeah the escapeXML was not though through very well	23:44
+perlDreamer	okay, I know now how to hack H::T to do the escaping	23:51
+perlDreamer	what are valid XML escapes?	23:51
@preaction	HTML::Entities can unescape the HTML, you will have to find something that will escape the result for XML	23:52
+perlDreamer	http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=15502551	23:54
+perlDreamer	This very thing was talked about on the H::T list 9 months ago.	23:56
+perlDreamer	It just died in committee	23:56
+perlDreamer	but if we fix it by extending H::T, what happens to the other Template plugins?	23:56
@preaction	we'd have to give a patch to H::T and hope it gets committed, i think i went through this with JT about the deep-loop global_vars bug	23:58
+perlDreamer	what's with the code in /data/WebGUI/lib/XML/RSS/Creator.pm ?	23:59
@preaction	couldn't tell you, i think i suggested distributing our own H::T, but i was shot down	23:59
+perlDreamer	I see	23:59
--- Day changed Fri Feb 02 2007
+perlDreamer	Creator is a parser.	00:00
@snapcount	perlDreamer: did you credit the guy who gave us that patch in the change log?	00:01
+perlDreamer	yes. Do you happen to know his last name?	00:01
+perlDreamer	all I found was "patrick" and "patspam"	00:01
@snapcount	no I don't...	00:01
@snapcount	thanks for committing that, and I'm sure you tested it first	00:01
@snapcount	I don't think we've ever got one from him before	00:02
+perlDreamer	I did. Had to make my own Asset tweak in order to do it.	00:02
@snapcount	ok cool	00:02
+perlDreamer	The Slider slid. It was good.	00:02
@snapcount	I'm a little paranoid with new people and their patches =)	00:02
@preaction	word	00:02
@snapcount	cool cool	00:02
* preaction worries more about the evils he knows		00:03
@snapcount	maybe more people will submit patches with their bugs	00:03
* snapcount dreams a little dream		00:03
+perlDreamer	drop him 100 karma	00:03
+perlDreamer	s/drop/give/	00:03
@snapcount	hmm	00:03
@snapcount	that's not a bad incentive	00:03
+perlDreamer	we'd have to do it manually though	00:03
@snapcount	yeah	00:03
greghacke	next you'll tell me to submit bugs	00:03
@snapcount	that's fine	00:03
@snapcount	and if it starts taking a bunch of time b/c it's manual	00:04
@snapcount	that is a good thing	00:04
+perlDreamer	greghacke: Submit bugs	00:04
@snapcount	perlDreamer: shoot me an email with that suggestion so I don't forget about it	00:04
@snapcount	I need to mull it over... I don't know if 100 is too much or too little	00:05
greghacke	I could submit bugs on EMS but I think I'll hold on that until I crawl the code again.	00:05
+perlDreamer	You get 5 for submitting, 5 for closing.	00:05
greghacke	5 per level - cosmetc: 5, minor: 10; critical: 15, fatal: 20	00:06
@snapcount	trouble with that is that it's a subjective scale	00:06
@snapcount	critical to you could easily be cosmetic to most	00:06
@snapcount	and vice versa	00:06
greghacke	absolutely true.	00:06
@snapcount	I'd prefer one number	00:06
@snapcount	a bug is a bug	00:07
greghacke	karma itself is a subjective system though.	00:07
gooeybot	itself is a subjective system though. has neutral karma	00:07
@snapcount	and it keeps it fair	00:07
greghacke	don't believe much in 'fair'	00:07
@snapcount	time for sk00L	00:07
@snapcount	ttyl guys	00:08
+perlDreamer	hack on, duded	00:08
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@khenn	got another regex question	00:20
+perlDreamer	bring it	00:20
@khenn	I want to find everything in the string that looks like: &...;	00:21
@khenn	but my regexp is finding the first &	00:21
@khenn	and the last ;	00:21
@khenn	when I do:	00:21
+perlDreamer	use \S+ instead of .	00:21
@khenn	s/(&.*;)//;	00:21
@khenn	ah	00:21
+perlDreamer	\s is whitespace	00:21
+perlDreamer	\S is non-whitespace	00:21
+perlDreamer	all characters	00:21
+perlDreamer	use \w instead of \S	00:22
+perlDreamer	\w+	00:22
+perlDreamer	\w is word characters	00:22
+perlDreamer	do you need to find '#'?	00:22
@khenn	no	00:23
+perlDreamer	then use \w	00:23
+perlDreamer	if you need to find '#', use &([^;]+);	00:23
+perlDreamer	preaction: this stress tester is stressful. First you have to build a CS, then commit it, then add a thread, and _then_ you can starting shoving posts into it.	00:24
@preaction	the bug is messed up :(	00:25
greghacke	functional question: fastest way to port in 12000 entries into an SQLForm table.	00:34
greghacke	or should i hit the forums?	00:34
+perlDreamer	why SQLForm?	00:35
greghacke	agency hosting using extra database for SQLForm. customer uses it for data tracking (or will when i finish normalizing it)	00:36
greghacke	two tables, ~6000 records into the first and 12000 to the second.	00:36
@preaction	greghacke: probably a direct DBI query script	00:36
greghacke	thought so.	00:36
+perlDreamer	note that SQLForm data is versioned by default	00:36
@khenn	anyone know anything about RSS 2.0?	00:37
greghacke	yeah, i'm referencing the default columns for the data (except for the __recordId)	00:37
+perlDreamer	khenn: sorry	00:37
@khenn	I guess I'll try it	00:37
+perlDreamer	there's some info in /data/WebGUI/lib/XML/RSS/Creator.pm	00:37
@khenn	and see what happens	00:37
@khenn	I'm guessing that having HTML stripped out of your RSS is not the desired effect eh?	00:53
+perlDreamer	I bet iTunes will actually render the HTML, whereas a strict RSS reader wouldn't	00:56
@preaction	might have to read the spec on that, i would think that RSS would not include HTML tags	00:57
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@khenn	it doesn't	01:02
@khenn	and there weren't any anyway	01:02
@khenn	b/c my test was on a collab system which is returning synopsis as the description	01:03
@khenn	but my fix should handle just about everything in terms of RSS	01:03
@khenn	I'm sure wierd Arabic, Japaneese, Chineese, etc characters are gonna mess things up	01:04
@khenn	but I'm guess thing will handle 99% of what it needs to	01:04
@khenn	can someone with a mac test something out for me in Safari and/or FF?	01:04
@khenn	http://frank1.plainblack.net:8084/news2/alumni-news/alumni-news.rss	01:04
@khenn	the links don't work btw cause my config file is screwed up	01:06
@preaction	testing	01:11
@preaction	FF on Mac likes your page	01:12
@preaction	trying Safari	01:12
@preaction	safari likes it too	01:13
@khenn	cool	01:15
@khenn	wahooo!!!	01:18
@khenn	she seems to be fixed	01:18
@khenn	any of the dutch people around atm?	01:18
+perlDreamer	nope	01:19
@khenn	I think my fix to RSS shoudl support nearly everything	01:20
@khenn	I'm slightly worried about HTML and funky characters in other languages	01:20
@preaction	eh, would it have worked before you fixed it?	01:21
@khenn	not sure	01:22
@khenn	it probably will work	01:22
@khenn	it does not, however recurse	01:22
@preaction	so people who use RSSFromParent for non-RSS exporting...?	01:23
@preaction	it needs to recurse?	01:23
@preaction	http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/repeatedly-e-mailes-after-edit-branch <- is this not expected behavior?	01:27
+perlDreamer	preaction: re RSS, that's why I think it should be done in the template.	01:28
+perlDreamer	template level escaping allows you to reuse the RSS to do anything	01:29
@preaction	indeed... but it can't be at this moment	01:29
+perlDreamer	why not?	01:29
@preaction	because H::T doesn't?	01:29
+perlDreamer	from what I can tell, HTML escaping is a superset of XML escaping.	01:29
@preaction	that's the problem, there are HTML escape entities that XML doesn't understand	01:30
@preaction	nbsp for example	01:30
+perlDreamer	it's a mess	01:31
@preaction	complete	01:31
@preaction	quick question though: if you do an edit branch on a cs, would you not expect to get a bunch of e-mails because you edited the posts in the edit branch?	01:32
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@preaction	monkey...	01:32
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+perlDreamer	am I really back?	01:33
greghacke	No	01:36
greghacke	pD is not here. Please leave a message at the sound of the tone.	01:36
+perlDreamer	"Where is the any key?"	01:36
@khenn	re: RSS the problem lies in RSS 2.0	01:37
+perlDreamer	RSS 2.0 says that it can contain HTML?	01:37
@khenn	no, it cannot contain HTML Entities	01:37
@khenn	it requires ASCII or Hex values due to UTF-8 conversions or some crap like that	01:37
@khenn	and because H::T does not have ESCAPE="ASCII"	01:38
@khenn	it fails miserably	01:38
+perlDreamer	I see	01:38
+perlDreamer	wouldn't it be easier just to shoot the people who are manually entering HTML into the textField for Synopsis?	01:38
+perlDreamer	that long delay says that you're either ignoring me, or seriously considering it	01:39
@khenn	I was posting somewhere else	01:40
@khenn	HTML should still work actually	01:40
@khenn	I didn't test it, but I don't see why it wouldn't	01:40
@khenn	I'm slightly concerned about it	01:40
@khenn	I'm more concerned about characters that HTML::Entities isn't familiar with	01:41
@khenn	< and > are handled appropriately	01:41
+perlDreamer	how about &, ' and "?	01:42
@khenn	converted	01:42
@khenn	to whatever the hex value is for them	01:42
@khenn	HTML::Entities::encode_numeric();	01:43
@preaction	khenn: why would HTML::Entities be unfamiliar with any characters?	01:46
@preaction	perlDreamer: do you remember this? http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/dataform-grouptoviewentries-behavior	01:47
+perlDreamer	yes	01:47
@preaction	is it a bug?	01:47
+perlDreamer	Not really. It's more of an RFE.	01:47
@preaction	ok, i'll just close it then	01:47
@preaction	also, if you edit branch on a CS, would you not expect to be e-mailed the Posts that were edited?	01:48
+perlDreamer	Me, personally, I would not	01:49
+perlDreamer	To me edit branch is like a db hack. It shouldn't trigger any side effects.	01:49
@preaction	i suppose this means we drag out rizen	01:49
+perlDreamer	you need to double check that one with the rizenator	01:49
@preaction	rizen: is this a bug? http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/repeatedly-e-mailes-after-edit-branch	01:50
@khenn	preaction: The docs say it handles unknown characters by simply returning the character	01:50
@khenn	it doesn't document what it does and doesn't know	01:51
@khenn	did that make sense?	01:51
@preaction	yeah	01:51
+perlDreamer	khenn: what does the source say?	01:51
@khenn	the source?	01:52
@khenn	heh	01:52
@preaction	perlbot utsl	01:52
@preaction	use the source, luke!	01:52
@preaction	perlbot rtfs	01:52
perlbot	READ THE FUCKING SOURCE	01:52
@preaction	or that...	01:52
@khenn	YOU READ THE FUCKING SOURCE	01:53
@preaction	that's telling him!	01:53
+perlDreamer	yup, there are unfamiliar characters	01:56
+perlDreamer	there's a manual table of entities	01:56
@khenn	I figured as much	01:56
+perlDreamer	if it's not in the table, it's unknown	01:56
@khenn	If it was going somewhere on the internet to get the list it probably would require LWP =)	01:56
+perlDreamer	true. Although sometimes they do it indirectly with a 1-time fetch at install, so the LWP requirement is buried in the Make/Build script.	01:57
@preaction	these entities are described in a standard, no reason to LWP for them	01:58
@khenn	um	01:59
@khenn	they change every year	01:59
@khenn	not many changes	01:59
@khenn	usually additions	01:59
@preaction	so you're saying HTML 4.01 standard changes every year?	01:59
@khenn	no, I'm saying the UTF-8 standard does	02:00
@preaction	how about the character sets? that I can agree with	02:01
@khenn	Let's see how the new specter changes work	02:02
@khenn	spectre	02:02
@khenn	I have more memory free	02:05
@khenn	20megs more than usual	02:05
@khenn	after a restart	02:05
@preaction	that's always good	02:06
@khenn	53 bug fixes documented so far	02:07
@khenn	in 7.3.9	02:07
@preaction	30-some left on the lists	02:07
@khenn	yep	02:07
@khenn	I'm gonna be bugfixing tomorrow as well	02:07
+perlDreamer	how do you add a Post to a Thread via the API?	02:13
@preaction	addChild	02:13
+perlDreamer	hint, this isn't good enough: my $post = $thread->addChild({className=>'WebGUI::Asset::Post', 'title'=>'Post', 'threadId'=>$thread->getId});	02:14
@preaction	what's the error?	02:14
gooeybot	the error is in the loop	02:14
@preaction	no, gooeybot, the error is <reply>	02:14
gooeybot	okay, preaction.	02:14
@preaction	what's the error?	02:14
+perlDreamer	working on it.....	02:14
@preaction	(was just testing gooeybot)	02:14
@preaction	in other news: i learned how to stop gooeybot from replying to simple, stupid questions	02:15
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+perlDreamer	preaction: Can't call method "getParent" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib//WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm line 307.	02:16
+perlDreamer	I'll paste the Post stuffing script	02:16
@preaction	you're going to have to skip the autocommit	02:17
+perlDreamer	and do a manual commit?	02:17
@preaction	addChild({},{skipAutoCommitWorkflow=>1});	02:17
@preaction	yeah	02:17
@preaction	i think that's the right option	02:17
+perlDreamer	for the thread, too?	02:18
@preaction	i don't think threads autocommit	02:18
@preaction	wait	02:19
@preaction	i don't know	02:19
+perlDreamer	They must	02:19
@preaction	you're righ	02:19
+perlDreamer	Threads are really posts	02:19
+perlDreamer	preaction: http://rafb.net/p/E4TYvQ38.html	02:22
+perlDreamer	it's ...Workflows	02:23
+perlDreamer	plural	02:23
@preaction	figures	02:23
+perlDreamer	it's not fun doing dev on a 500 MHz P3	02:24
@preaction	will addRevision do it? dateSubmitted is the same as dateUpdated for the moment, right?	02:24
@preaction	addRevision can so the skipAutoCommitWorkflows too, you might have to	02:24
@khenn	I can send you some code for adding posts to Collab systems	02:25
@khenn	I've been down this road already	02:25
+perlDreamer	khenn: thanks	02:25
+perlDreamer	I think we need a repo for all these 1-off scripts	02:26
+perlDreamer	it would save time	02:27
@khenn	it's a lot of code	02:28
@khenn	but it does a lot of stuff	02:28
@khenn	if you can figure out why the hell the posts won't commit as admin I'd be much obliged (note that this only doens't work if you turn on approvals)	02:29
@khenn	I sent you all the methods it calls so you won't be confused	02:29
+perlDreamer	I think I was committing Posts as Admin last night, when I was testing the fixed rating code.	02:30
@khenn	well that should be committing everything as admin	02:30
@khenn	so there should be no reason it doesn't commit	02:30
@khenn	but it won't matter if you have approvals turned off	02:31
@khenn	you can just comment out the line that calls the special commit code	02:31
@khenn	apparently the fix for that template bug was to edit the file and put some debug code in...	02:33
+perlDreamer	template bug?	02:33
@khenn	I'm closing it now	02:33
@khenn	yeah, trying to edit a template from the edit screen of an asset was throwing an error on plainblack.com	02:33
+perlDreamer	was it a custom PB template?	02:34
@khenn	no	02:34
@khenn	actually	02:34
@khenn	yes	02:34
@khenn	it was a custom template	02:34
@khenn	but it happened for even non-custom templates	02:34
+perlDreamer	that's not good	02:34
@khenn	well it's fixed now	02:35
+perlDreamer	at least its fixed	02:35
@khenn	36 bugs left	02:36
@khenn	I think I'm done for tonight	02:36
@khenn	later everyone	02:36
@preaction	cya	02:36
+perlDreamer	bye	02:36
-!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		02:36
+perlDreamer	I think my script is done	02:37
+perlDreamer	have to call addChild instead of addRevision, because if the threadId isn't null then it doesn't set the dateSubmitted	02:37
+perlDreamer	nothing in 100 Posts yet	02:40
@preaction	Juice that baby all the way up, Cedric!	02:40
+perlDreamer	I made it sleep 1 second between add's	02:40
+perlDreamer	but that may be skewing the data, too	02:41
+perlDreamer	nothing in 200	02:41
@preaction	since sleep always sleeps to the top of a second?	02:42
+perlDreamer	probably	02:42
@preaction	maybe Time::HiRes and sleep to a .9 of a second?	02:42
@preaction	perlbot -f sleep	02:42
perlbot	Documentation for 'sleep' can be found here: http://xrl.us/ukzw	02:42
greghacke	Good night all.	02:44
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@preaction	night	02:44
+perlDreamer	I slept for 0.47 seconds b/w submits, nothin g in 127 Posts	02:48
+perlDreamer	maybe it depends on the version of perl	02:48
+perlDreamer	or (more sanely) I'm completely wrong	02:48
@preaction	wait	02:49
@preaction	if the threadId is not null, then it sets the dateUpdated?	02:49
@preaction	and only the dateUpdated	02:49
+perlDreamer	it's all in the addRevision sub in Post.pm	02:49
+perlDreamer	if the threadId is empty, it calls it a new post	02:49
+perlDreamer	and it sets the dateSubmitted to $now	02:50
+perlDreamer	then it does another update to set dateUpdated to $now	02:50
+perlDreamer	and then later, during commit, it checks for isNew.	02:50
+perlDreamer	if it isNew, then it adjusts Karma and increments the number of replies.	02:50
+perlDreamer	you'll remember our buddy isNew from last night dateSubmitted == dateUpdated	02:51
@preaction	what if, inside the Asset->update sub, we do some dumper output of the properties we're updating with?	02:51
@preaction	then run your test	02:51
+perlDreamer	nothing in 500 Posts	02:51
@preaction	so use Data::Dumper; warn Dumper $properties if $self->get("className") eq "WebGUI::Asset::Post";	02:51
+perlDreamer	I'm manually monitoring the db as I run the test. So it should do the same thing	02:52
+perlDreamer	select assetId,dateUpdated,dateSubmitted from Post where dateUpdated <> dateSubmitted;	02:52
@preaction	crap...	02:52
@preaction	add some debug code like that to pb.com and wait for it to happen again?	02:53
+perlDreamer	you could add that to the Post level addChild/addRevision subs, instead of at the Asset level	02:53
+perlDreamer	can we scan through the PB db in order to see if this was a freak 1 time thing?	02:53
@preaction	i'm worried that it's not the Post-level things that are doing it	02:54
@preaction	i'm fairly sure it's not, there are multiple threads on pb.com with bad reply information	02:54
@preaction	but i'll check anyway	02:54
+perlDreamer	I'm heading home. I'll be back on later tonight.	02:54
@preaction	k	02:54
+perlDreamer	nice working with you today, preaction	02:55
@preaction	likewise	02:55
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@preaction	4341 rows in set... that's not so good	02:56
@preaction	1096 of them are off-by-one	02:56
@preaction	some from as far back as 2004	02:57
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PedersenMJ	good evening	05:23
-!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui		05:37
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+perlDreamer	preaction: hackest thou this fine evening?	05:39
@rizen	pd: check out the new --status option on spectre.pl and tell me what you think	05:39
@rizen	you may want to queue up a few workflows first	05:39
@rizen	i wanted to know if it provides enough information to judge health	05:40
@rizen	as you said	05:41
+perlDreamer	will do	05:41
+perlDreamer	How do I manually queue up workflows?	05:41
@rizen	use the "run" link in the scheduler	05:41
@rizen	click a few times	05:41
+perlDreamer	not bad	05:45
+perlDreamer	we can actually watch workflows flow through the queue	05:45
+perlDreamer	that is very good	05:45
+perlDreamer	if we ever need to graph stuff, we can easily add it in	05:45
@rizen	i'm trying to figure out what else i could put in there that would be useful	05:45
@rizen	there isn't much data that spectre knows about	05:45
@rizen	most of it is in webgui	05:46
+perlDreamer	It might be nice to know the original priority of a workflow, so you can see how many times its been queued	05:46
@rizen	so in the priority column, should i do something like current / original	05:46
@rizen	34 / 10	05:46
+perlDreamer	yeah	05:46
+perlDreamer	then you look at it and say: you've been reinserted 24 times	05:47
@rizen	i'm also thinking about keepin gtrack of the status of the last execution	05:47
@rizen	"complete"	05:47
@rizen	"error"	05:47
@rizen	"waiting"	05:47
+perlDreamer	that's good, too	05:47
@rizen	right now we don't keep track of it	05:47
@rizen	but it might be worth the extra memory	05:47
-!- mode/#webgui [-o snap_learner] by ChanServ		05:48
+perlDreamer	it's 1 perl string, shouldn't be too heavy	05:48
+perlDreamer	preaction and I spent about 2 or 3 hours looking at Posts today	05:48
@rizen	yeah, i'm just thinking if you have 1000 things going on	05:48
@rizen	how did you come out?	05:48
+perlDreamer	I inserted 500 posts with skipAutocommitWorkflows, and had no problems.	05:49
@rizen	nice	05:49
+perlDreamer	preaction did some research on PB's site for Posts	05:49
+perlDreamer	<@preaction> 4341 rows in set... that's not so good 02:56 <@preaction> 1096 of them are off-by-one 02:57 <@preaction> some from as far back as 2004	05:49
@rizen	wow	05:50
+perlDreamer	that's 1 in 4, and I couldn't hit that with 500 Posts.	05:50
+perlDreamer	but I also had to use the skipAutoCommitWorkflows flag	05:50
+perlDreamer	that might make things very different	05:50
+perlDreamer	so the hiccup may be coming from the autocommit workflows	05:50
@rizen	i guess we'll see	05:51
+perlDreamer	what version of perl are y'all running on PB.com?	05:51
@rizen	5.8.8	05:51
@rizen	or maybe 5.8.10	05:51
@rizen	i'd have to check	05:51
@rizen	5.8.8	05:52
+perlDreamer	I was running 5.8.6 at work.	05:52
+perlDreamer	I have 5.8.8 here	05:52
+perlDreamer	I'll try to duplicate the experiment here	05:52
@rizen	i'm going to quickly work in those other two things into the status	05:53
+perlDreamer	it takes a long time to commit 500 assets	05:57
@rizen	indeed	05:58
PedersenMJ	Hey, JT, quick question for you: If I were to talk my company into going to WebGUI for their public site, how long would it take pb.com to convert what we have into a WebGUI style? (more detail in just a sec)	06:07
PedersenMJ	Basically, we have a .net site right now, which uses its own templating system/etc. If we were to provide access to the current site, and allow you guys to pull down data/pages/etc, how long would it take you (normally) to make a whole new e-commerce type site using said templates?	06:08
PedersenMJ	I know you cannot provide an accurate number without seeing it, and I'm not asking for that. Just general past experience type numbers where a client has all their data and templates, and just needs to integrate it.	06:09
PedersenMJ	Basically, I got wind today of a fairly significant problem. Supposedly, we're supposed to be in a testing phase starting on Monday, and there's some major issues that have just cropped up today. We shouldn't be seeing major issues, not at this point, and I'm looking to gather info to try and get the current site removed.	06:10
@rizen	style conversion is less than a week	06:11
@rizen	content migration depends on number and complexity of pages	06:11
@rizen	commerce system can be set up in less than a day	06:11
@rizen	then you have to import products	06:11
@rizen	which again is a content migration issue	06:11
@rizen	almost certainly less than a month, but without seeing it	06:12
@rizen	that's all i can tell you	06:12
PedersenMJ	That's more than fair.	06:12
PedersenMJ	As I said, this was entirely ballpark, off the cuff. I wouldn't hold you to that, I can promise.	06:13
@rizen	honestly, the thing that holds us up more than anything else is a disorganized customer	06:13
@rizen	once we have everything we need	06:13
@rizen	we can rip out an entire site in under a week	06:13
@rizen	content migration, commerce, design, the whole ball of wax	06:14
+perlDreamer	nothing in 1500 Posts	06:14
@rizen	that's great pd	06:14
@rizen	this is with skip auto?	06:14
+perlDreamer	yeah	06:14
+perlDreamer	and same version of perl, but maybe different switches?	06:14
@rizen	what if you don't skip auto	06:14
@rizen	why are you skipping auto?	06:15
@rizen	just cuz it's faster?	06:15
+perlDreamer	I was told that I had to.	06:15
@rizen	who told you that?	06:15
+perlDreamer	I don't remember.	06:15
@rizen	no reason to do that	06:15
@rizen	the skip auto feature is only there for the branch functions	06:15
+perlDreamer	wait a minute. I know what it was	06:16
+perlDreamer	it was a workaround to a bug I was getting	06:16
PedersenMJ	Thanks. I'm going to be monitoring the situation at work as carefully as possible. And trying to introduce WebGUI for an intranet site next week sometime.	06:16
@rizen	hey PedersenMJ...how did i piss you off the other day?	06:17
PedersenMJ	If things fall through with the current company (and I suspect they might, the mistakes they are making are enormous), I'll be doing my best to get them to call you guys up.	06:17
@rizen	i thought i was being nice	06:17
PedersenMJ	You pissed me off?	06:17
+perlDreamer	Post->getAutoCommitWorkflowId was failing	06:17
@rizen	i said that i wanted to keep the channel all about bug fixing	06:17
@rizen	and you made some sort of sour grapes comment	06:17
@rizen	and left	06:17
PedersenMJ	That was you? Ah, it was the way it was said.	06:17
@rizen	i said please and everything	06:18
@rizen	everyone on the channel was wondering why you were mad and left	06:18
PedersenMJ	Here's what I saw as possible answers to the question: 1) Yes. 2) No. 3) Ignore me. 4) FOAD. I felt more like I got FOAD, when I would have much preferred 3.	06:18
@rizen	we even discussed that it was someone other than you masquerading, because you never act like that	06:18
PedersenMJ	That, and it was said by someone I didn't know.	06:19
@rizen	FOAD?	06:19
PedersenMJ	FOAD = Acronym: Fuck off and die.	06:19
@rizen	heh...i didn't mean that certainly	06:19
-!- rizen is now known as BugSlasherMcGirk		06:19
PedersenMJ	I think the big thing is that I didn't know that BugSlasherMcGirk was you.	06:19
-!- BugSlasherMcGirk is now known as rizen		06:20
@rizen	my alter ego	06:20
-!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI 7.3.8		06:20
PedersenMJ	You? I'd have understood it, and been okay with it. BSMG? Had never seen the name, thought it was someone trying to tell me to foad, basically, and that I was not welcome.	06:20
PedersenMJ	Now I know, and will offer up an apology. That was more than slightly rude of me.	06:21
+perlDreamer	Normally we don't let people treat other people in the channel that way. If it was some jerk, we'd have nailed him.	06:21
PedersenMJ	And the embarassing part is that I almost went ahead and asked who the heck bsmg was. Wish I had.	06:21
PedersenMJ	I am sorry. And will take this as a lesson to ask first, rather than shoot a mouth off.	06:22
@rizen	no biggie	06:23
+perlDreamer	nothing in 500 Posts without autocommitworkflows	06:23
+perlDreamer	trying 750	06:23
@rizen	i just thought you were mad at me or something	06:23
@rizen	you mean "with" right?	06:23
@rizen	or "without skip"	06:23
+perlDreamer	yes, without skip	06:23
+perlDreamer	nothing in 750	06:23
@rizen	i think you've got it licked man	06:24
+perlDreamer	I don't have a bug fix. I'm trying to duplicate the bug.	06:24
+perlDreamer	I can't	06:24
PedersenMJ	And will thank you for setting me straight, too. That sets my mind at ease, a lot. Man, I really need to have better integration between irc and jabber. Might have to take that side project on myself.	06:25
+perlDreamer	nothing in 1500 Posts	06:25
+perlDreamer	rizen, I think we should try this on PB.com and see if we can dupe it there.	06:25
+perlDreamer	I'm getting 25 Post inserts per second	06:26
@rizen	no offense, but i don't want to throw a bunch of crap into plainblack.com db	06:27
@rizen	we can do it on a demo site if you like	06:27
@rizen	but not on plainblack	06:27
@rizen	plainblack's database is already fragmented, and has more than half a gig of data in it	06:28
+perlDreamer	the script is completely self contained and self checking	06:29
+perlDreamer	in the end it tells you how many busted posts it made	06:29
@rizen	you know, as buggy as webgui might be sometimes, that's one huge testament to how cool it is	06:29
+perlDreamer	yes it is	06:29
@rizen	plainblack.com was created on WebGUI 0.8.0	06:29
@rizen	and has survived every upgrade	06:29
@rizen	to 7.3.8	06:29
@rizen	i don't think that there are many cms providers out there that can claim any site has survived the hundreds of upgrades	06:30
@rizen	we have	06:30
@rizen	upgrade and cms just don't go hand in hand in most cases	06:31
+perlDreamer	someone in the channel said that Zope sites can't do major version number upgrades. They have to port.	06:31
@rizen	that was me	06:32
@rizen	but it is true	06:32
@rizen	you have to export/import your data with a migration tool	06:32
@rizen	and that only works for the main content	06:32
@rizen	it won't work for any plugin data	06:32
+perlDreamer	I emailed you the Post stuffer script	06:33
@rizen	do you want me to run it on a demo site?	06:33
+perlDreamer	yes, please	06:33
PedersenMJ	BRB, switching to real IRC client.	06:35
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@rizen	is this thing supposed to be outputting as it goes?	06:37
+perlDreamer	no	06:38
@rizen	http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1170390990_536	06:38
@rizen	how many will it create?	06:38
+perlDreamer	1500	06:38
+perlDreamer	it's pretty fast	06:38
+perlDreamer	(on my unloaded machine)	06:39
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+perlDreamer	at the end, it will tell you how many Posts it found with non-identical dateUpdated and dateSubmitted	06:39
@rizen	it's not committing any of the tags	06:39
@rizen	is it supposed to?	06:40
@rizen	this is the output i got from it at the end	06:40
@rizen	$VAR1 = [];	06:40
@rizen	we're running 7.3.8 out there though, so i don't know if that would have anything to do with it	06:41
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PedersenMJ	Much better.	06:41
PedersenMJ	Using a real client is definitely better.	06:42
+perlDreamer	rizen: will committing the tags change dateUpdated or dateSubmitted?	06:42
@rizen	nope	06:44
+perlDreamer	$VAR1=[] means that there were no rows found where dateUpdated != dateSubmitted	06:46
+perlDreamer	maybe we need to add debug code to PB's WebGUI and see what's going on via logging.	06:47
+perlDreamer	since we can't dupe the bug on command.	06:47
@rizen	what will logging tell us	06:51
@rizen	it seems only when it happened, not why	06:51
@rizen	the new status screen is available for your approval...added last state and original priority	06:51
@rizen	and also now keeps track of suspended workflows	06:51
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+perlDreamer	it might tell us about where	06:51
@rizen	how so?	06:52
@rizen	this can only be happening in one spot, right?	06:52
+perlDreamer	I hope so.	06:52
@rizen	well in order for it to tell us something else, we'd have to be logging in more than one spot	06:52
@rizen	but we've only got one spot to log	06:52
+perlDreamer	I was thinking of adding code in Post, for addChild, addRevision and commit	06:53
+perlDreamer	it seems like we've only got two choice	06:54
@rizen	give me a patched version of the 7.3.8 Post.pm and i'll put it on there for you	06:54
+perlDreamer	I'll work on it	06:54
+perlDreamer	after I check our your new spectre status	06:54
@rizen	i recommend not using the normal logging mechanism though	06:54
@rizen	cuz we'll never find it	06:54
@rizen	the webgui.log is too big	06:54
@rizen	instead, just open a file to /tmp/post.log	06:55
@rizen	or something	06:55
+perlDreamer	that's shared among all the threads?	06:56
@rizen	what's shared?	06:56
+perlDreamer	there are multiple workers (apache children). Wouldn't you have to lock the file so that they don't stomp on each other?	06:57
@rizen	open my $file, ">>", "/tmp/post.log"; print {$file} $output; close $file;	06:57
@rizen	nope	06:57
@rizen	you're appending	06:57
@rizen	so it works like magic	06:57
+perlDreamer	do you think we'll find anything if we do this?	06:58
@rizen	honestly...not really	06:58
@rizen	but i don't have any other idea	06:58
@rizen	the sherlock method says to exhaust all possibilities, until whatever is left must be your answer	06:59
@rizen	so we should do this	06:59
+perlDreamer	do you think we should try banging heads with the other devs tomorrow?	06:59
@rizen	it's better than doing nothing	06:59
+perlDreamer	pow wow?	06:59
@rizen	we've been doing that for 2 days	06:59
@rizen	and i'm on accounting duty tomorrow, so i won't be around most of the day	07:00
@rizen	i guess what i'm saying is...this log can't hurt	07:00
@rizen	maybe it will give us a clue	07:00
+perlDreamer	the worst it can do is slow your site down a little do to the I/O	07:00
@rizen	my site is already slow	07:01
@rizen	which is something i've got to work on	07:01
@rizen	so it's not even going to be noticable	07:01
+perlDreamer	what's wrong with PB? Why is it slow?	07:01
@rizen	no idea	07:01
@rizen	it really shouldn't be slow given the hardware it's on vs the traffic we get	07:01
@rizen	honestly i'm starting to believe it's the caching system that's slowing us down	07:02
+perlDreamer	File cache?	07:02
@rizen	when the fs cache grows big	07:02
@rizen	it really seems to chug	07:02
@rizen	yeah	07:02
@rizen	i was hoping to have all these bugs fixed this week so i could spend next week doing some profiling	07:06
@rizen	i think that we're caching a lot of shit, that doesn't get us much or any gain	07:06
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@rizen	so, do you think the status screen will be a good diagnostic tool?	07:07
@rizen	can you think of any improvements?	07:07
+perlDreamer	no	07:07
@rizen	good, then it's good enough for the time being	07:08
@rizen	that combined with the queue improvements, and the startup improvements	07:08
@rizen	i think that spectre should be in pretty fit shape	07:08
+perlDreamer	we closed 50 bugs over the last 3 days	07:08
@rizen	is that all?	07:09
+perlDreamer	yeah	07:09
@rizen	it seemed like hundreds	07:09
+perlDreamer	there are about 30 more	07:09
+perlDreamer	we also found some non-reported bugs	07:09
@rizen	frank, roy, and doug will all be working on bugs again tomorrow	07:09
+perlDreamer	I should be able to help some more	07:10
+perlDreamer	but I'm way slower than they are	07:10
@rizen	you seem to be closing as many or more bugs than they are from my vantage point	07:10
+perlDreamer	I had a head start :)	07:10
@rizen	well i'm done for tonight	07:15
@rizen	ttyl	07:15
+perlDreamer	good night	07:15
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PedersenMJ_	I'm headed for bed myself. Yawning more than reading or writing now.	07:17
PedersenMJ_	g'night!	07:17
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+perlDreamer	nobody left but us perlDreamers	07:59
* perlDreamer gollum		07:59
Hinrik	O_o	07:59
* Radix-wrk yawns.		08:01
Radix-wrk	I've been having dramas with Webgui of a different nature - psu in the machine hosting webgui was 'spiking' randomly - causing it to spontaneously reboot and me to panic - had to do a run-around for a replacement psu, but seems to be working fine now I'm glad to say.	08:06
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+perlDreamer	is the psu on a ups?	08:14
Radix-wrk	was yup	08:18
Radix-wrk	I tried it without the ups thinking maybe the UPS was the problem somehow - as it was beeping when it restarted - but then it did it in front of me 2 minutes later after bypassing the UPS	08:19
Radix-wrk	It's been up 1hr 20 mins so far, so all is good so far.. got my webdev machine with a clone of the whole site just in case this time - it's a friday afternoon and the last thing I want to do on my weekend is rush in to work - this way a few iptables rules will let me redirect to the webdev machine instead ;)	08:22
+perlDreamer	good backup	08:25
+perlDreamer	well, I got another bug fixed	08:42
+perlDreamer	time to go to bed	08:42
+perlDreamer	that will give you guys time to find more bugs	08:42
xdanger	is there a way to catch "Illegal division by zero at..." error on a whole script level? not just putting the part in eval {};	08:43
+perlDreamer	I don't think so. You should only need to trap certain parts of it.	08:43
xdanger	I just don't want to put eval on every part of that script that dows divisions...	08:44
+perlDreamer	how about checking the data before the divisions happen?	08:44
+perlDreamer	and error out appropriately?	08:44
xdanger	toooooo many variables...	08:44
xdanger	It's a complex hash that is worked on..	08:45
+perlDreamer	you could assign the data to tied variables that overload division so that they never really divide by 0.	08:45
xdanger	no, it's 6 different complex hashes, that are worked on =D	08:45
+perlDreamer	in perl 6 this is easy. perl 6 understands the concept of infinity	08:46
+perlDreamer	in perl 5 you're stuck	08:46
+perlDreamer	see if you can catch preaction tomorrow. He's full of good and sneaky ideas for this kind of stuff	08:47
xdanger	I was thinking about adding something like $var = sprintf("%.2f", $x / ($y + 0.000000000001));	08:47
Radix-wrk	there's no try/catch stuff in perl?	08:47
+perlDreamer	there is, on a 1 by 1 basis	08:47
xdanger	there is eval {}; and $@	08:47
xdanger	http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~anthony/info/perl/exceptions	08:48
+perlDreamer	but no way to do it across an entire script, unless you wrap the whole script in the eval.	08:49
xdanger	and then again the whole eval just fails =P	08:50
+perlDreamer	right	08:50
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xdanger	I was hoping for something like "use weird_devision_by_zero_fix;" kinda solution ;)	08:51
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@snapcount	akjg;alkdfjaoiehgioerjnfao[';snc	17:35
@preaction	really?	17:37
ckotil	thats the word on the street	17:37
@rizen	This is the new --status screen from the spectre command line: http://rafb.net/p/pi0btX35.html	17:42
@rizen	it allows you to see what's happening inside of spectre at any given time	17:42
ckotil	very nice.	17:43
@rizen	can any of you think of any way to make the screen more useful for debugging purposes?	17:43
ckotil	the activities contained in the workflows perhaps?	17:44
@rizen	unfortunately spectre doesn't know that	17:44
ckotil	k	17:44
@rizen	spectre doesn't know much...for security's sake	17:44
ckotil	that makes sense	17:45
@preaction	would it know the last activity it tried to run?	17:47
@preaction	that might be useful, for figuring out error and comm error statusi	17:48
@rizen	no it doesn't know any activities	17:53
@rizen	what it does is says, "Webgui, here's the instance that's ready to run....do it	17:54
@rizen	and then webgui looks up the next activity	17:54
@rizen	at least with this screen you have site name and instance id	17:54
@rizen	from there you can go look up the other stuff in the database	17:54
@rizen	i know it's not perfect...it's just what i can do with the data i have	17:54
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@rizen	to take this to the next level i'd like to display a similar screen inside of webgui's UI	17:55
@rizen	but it needs to filter out the data so that it only shows the stuff for that particular site	17:55
@rizen	once we have that, then we can do a drill down	17:55
@rizen	and show activities, workflows, etc	17:55
@rizen	cuz webgui does know all this stuff	17:56
ckotil	anyone know if there is an rfe for transferring assets/workflow/karm/etc.. between webgui sites?	18:05
ckotil	users/groups/configs?	18:06
@rizen	not that i'm aware of	18:07
@rizen	there is one about users and single sign on	18:08
@rizen	which would do that for users	18:08
@rizen	generally speaking, if you need somthing like that	18:08
@rizen	i'd suggest running a bunch of sites out of the same webgui instance	18:08
ckotil	thatd be an amazing feature. but i think first there would need to be a web services interface built in first. like soap	18:08
ckotil	thats what i do now.	18:08
ckotil	they are each contained beneath there own page layout.	18:09
ckotil	then i use mod_rewrite to rewrite the domain	18:09
@rizen	yup	18:09
ckotil	im happy with the way it worked out.	18:09
@rizen	it's easily the best way to do it when you need to share resources like that	18:09
ckotil	indee	18:09
ckotil	d	18:09
@rizen	many of our clients do the same thing	18:09
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ckotil	hrmm.. just got your response about approval messages not processing macros	18:14
ckotil	i need to include the date to an approval messafe	18:14
@rizen	it's easy to add if you want to one off it	18:15
@rizen	look at the NotifyAboutUser.pm activity, compared to the NotifyAboutVersionTag.pm activity	18:15
@rizen	the first one does process macros	18:15
ckotil	ok	18:16
* ckotil takes note		18:16
--- Log closed Fri Feb 02 18:20:45 2007
--- Log opened Fri Feb 02 20:06:34 2007
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greghacke	wonders at the sound of crickets	20:17
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@preaction	all the easy bugs are done, these are the hard ones, require concentration	20:18
@preaction	i'm trying to reproduce the IE problem when HTTPS sites proxy HTTPS sites and request a file from the proxied site	20:19
greghacke	See, I figured everyone was napping.	20:20
greghacke	what is the error?	20:20
@preaction	http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/downloading-file-using-httpproxy-fails	20:21
@preaction	basically: when pragma: no-cache is in effect, IE refuses to cache files downloaded via HTTPS (for security reasons)	20:21
@preaction	since you can't save them, you can't view them	20:21
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pjesi_	hi guys	20:23
@preaction	hihi! you come buying? you can sell too!	20:23
pjesi_	do you accept pounds?	20:25
@preaction	i no understand "pounds"	20:26
@preaction	gooeybot restart	20:26
gooeybot	preaction: sorry...	20:26
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greghacke	rubbles?	20:27
pjesi_	I have plenty of ISK	20:27
pjesi_	but I guess you dont want them	20:27
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+perlDreamer	dont' rubles have ridges so they can't fall down?	20:29
+perlDreamer	just so we're not doubling up, is anyone looking at the SQLForm bugs?	20:29
greghacke	I was then i got sucked into data normalization	20:30
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+perlDreamer	there are no default field types in the SQLForm?	20:38
greghacke	correct, each must be paired	20:38
+perlDreamer	how about the table, will it create it for me or do I need to initiall define it?	20:39
greghacke	when you create sqlform, you name the table. once you name it it creates ith with some default fields for instance, versioning, etc.	20:39
greghacke	then you create the field types and then make your fields	20:40
@preaction	uhm... correct me if i'm wrong, but if you use SQLForm and SQLReport in conjunction, couldn't you conceivably do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING AT ALL?	20:41
+perlDreamer	only if the DatabaseLink allows it	20:42
greghacke	except touch the webgui database	20:42
@preaction	i mean like making completely custom functionality	20:42
greghacke	almost.	20:42
@preaction	what limitations? besides limited to WebGUI::Form elements?	20:43
@preaction	well, and time	20:43
greghacke	form limitiations, referential integrity, etc.	20:44
greghacke	also the image issue. sqlform uploads image as a blob and displaying blobs is ... painful. they should go up as an asset	20:44
@preaction	doesn't SQLForm allow HTMLArea fields?	20:45
+perlDreamer	yes	20:45
@preaction	the rich editor can upload Image assets	20:45
@preaction	if you enable in config, iirc	20:45
+perlDreamer	greghacke: I'm guessing your bug is that 0 is a reserved value :)	20:47
@preaction	can i bounce some stuff off of you guys about this bug? http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/downloading-file-using-httpproxy-fails	20:47
+perlDreamer	sure, but I'm pretty browser ignorant	20:48
greghacke	pD: i believe you are correct. i could find nothing for that.	20:48
@preaction	this is more an HTTP issue i think	20:48
greghacke	i'm not browser ignorant but there is a discussion on IE and SSL issues on the MS site somehwere	20:48
@preaction	basically, the HTTPProxy doesn't send anything about the headers from the proxied site except the content-type	20:48
@preaction	so theoretically, this means that any IE downloading files over SSL with pragma: no-cache should fail, right?	20:48
@preaction	not just HTTPProxy downloads	20:49
@preaction	nevermind, it sends back ->content, not ->body	20:50
@preaction	so it does send back the headers	20:50
@preaction	reading the bug reports around the internet tubes, changing pragma: no-cache; to must-revalidate; fixes it. should i just rewrite and tell him to try? or just tell him to try?	20:51
@preaction	i can't reproduce this, but that's because i have nothing with SSL I can try it on	20:51
+perlDreamer	is the bug submitter a PB customer? they might let you use their site for a debug	20:52
@preaction	eric svanberg is from Volvo, i have no idea about their contract with us	20:52
+perlDreamer	greghacke, might need to wait for MrHairGrease to show back up for this one.	20:54
+perlDreamer	the code looks fine	20:54
+perlDreamer	at first glance	20:54
* perlDreamer is out to lunch, (like physically)		20:54
greghacke	anyone know the fastest way to get 18000 records onto an SQLForm table? :-)	20:57
@preaction	mysql -u<user> -p<password>	20:57
@preaction	:p	20:57
greghacke	would LOVE to. except it's a shared host	20:57
greghacke	or should i say agency hosting.	20:58
@preaction	plainblack agency hosting?	21:00
greghacke	yeah	21:00
greghacke	or should I say, "Yes, sir!"	21:01
@preaction	i suppose i don't know how secure our boxen are to be making user accounts for agency hosters, but that'd be a nice feature	21:03
@preaction	i mean, i'm sure that /data/wre/sbin/rc.webgui is world-executable	21:04
greghacke	eh, i'll build a complete sql for the insert and then ask for the best solution, even if i have to pay to run 2 inserts.	21:04
@preaction	greghacke: i was just about to suggest that	21:04
greghacke	better that than hand-entering 18000 records	21:05
@preaction	build it on a temp site, make an sql dump, and have us apply the dump	21:05
greghacke	the site or just the sql form stuff? the site is up and getting ready to go. all i need is the secondary db pupulated	21:05
@preaction	whatever you need inserted	21:06
greghacke	although i have mysql on here, I guess i could populate that and then use it. yeah	21:06
@preaction	mysqldump --tables <database> <table> [<table> ...] > dump.sql	21:06
greghacke	dealio. off to eat food. if rizen passes through, i am waiting on response to his package now	21:07
@preaction	kk	21:07
-!- greghacke is now known as greghacke_eats		21:07
@preaction	does WebGUI assume UTF-8 these days? or does it deal gracefully with UTF-8 content?	21:21
@preaction	http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/no-utf-8-in-proxied-sites <- I can fix this, but it's an RFE (since it requires HttpProxy to translate encodings)	21:22
@preaction	however, it's really easy to fix, should only be a two-line fix	21:22
ckotil	http://paste.biz/paste-437.html Im wondering if WebGUI::Macro::process will execute ok there. ?	21:34
@preaction	gooeybot paste is also \|http://paste.biz	21:36
gooeybot	OK, preaction.	21:36
@preaction	more pastebins for our rotation ;)	21:36
ckotil	pastebin.com is slow as fuck	21:37
ckotil	i usually turn to pastebin.cc when pastebin.com lets me down. but some how i got to paste.biz , i htink i had a typo somewhere	21:37
@preaction	ckotil: no, WebGUI::Macro::process requires a session as the first argument IIRC	21:37
@preaction	gooeybot has like 5 of them now, and it gives you a random one	21:37
gooeybot	preaction: sorry...	21:37
@preaction	gooeybot paste	21:37
gooeybot	paste is http://paste.biz	21:37
@preaction	gooeybot paste	21:37
gooeybot	paste is, like, http://paste.biz	21:37
@preaction	or not	21:37
@preaction	gooeybot pastebin	21:37
gooeybot	i guess pastebin is http://sial.org/pbot	21:37
@preaction	gooeybot pastebin	21:38
gooeybot	it has been said that pastebin is http://sial.org/pbot	21:38
@preaction	stupid pseudo-random crapola	21:38
ckotil	ok thanks preaction.	21:38
@preaction	ckotil: nevermind, i'm wrong again	21:39
ckotil	phew.	21:39
@preaction	cd /data/WebGUI/lib; perldoc WebGUI::Macro; <- read the fine manual	21:39
-!- greghacke_eats is now known as greghacke		21:40
ckotil	i only want to process message.	21:41
ckotil	but i dont know how i would pull message out of $properties. $properties[message] perhaps?	21:41
@preaction	you only want to process one macro in the content? or you only want the output of a call to that macro?	21:41
@preaction	perlbot perlref	21:42
perlbot	Perl references and nested data structures - http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.8.0/pod/perlref.html	21:42
@preaction	perlbot perldsc	21:42
perlbot	Perl Data Structures Cookbook - http://perldoc.perl.org/perldsc.html	21:42
ckotil	output of a call to that macro	21:42
@preaction	so you can't use WebGUI::Macro::process, you have to use WebGUI::Macro::<yourmacro>::process	21:42
ckotil	shit, ok then thats not what i meant.	21:42
ckotil	im working in NotifyAboutVersionTag.pm	21:42
ckotil	i should jsut run it and see if it breaks	21:43
@preaction	or write a test for it	21:43
greghacke	wrte a test	21:43
ckotil	ive never seen or writen a test	21:43
ckotil	there any documentation on it?	21:44
@preaction	all a test is a perl script	21:44
@preaction	perlbot docs for Test::More	21:45
perlbot	Documentation for 'Test::More' can be found here: http://xrl.us/umcs	21:45
@preaction	perlbot docs for Test::Harness	21:45
perlbot	Documentation for 'Test::Harness' can be found here: http://xrl.us/umct	21:45
ckotil	rock. thanks	21:45
@preaction	you'd also be good to view the already-created tests in /data/WebGUI/t	21:45
ckotil	ah, so thats what the t is for....test	21:45
ckotil	thx	21:45
@preaction	maybe look for ckuskie's presentation on Testing WebGUI	21:45
@preaction	perlDreamer: is your presentation on Testing WebGUI available for public consumption somewhere on the internet tubes?	21:46
@preaction	also, why am i more productive hungover with 4 hours of sleep than I am with 6-7 hours of sleep and no hangover?	21:46
ckotil	its got to do with the alcohol	21:47
@preaction	i've got three old, old bugs ready to be closed with approval from the higher-ups	21:47
@preaction	(mainly because the resolution isn't quite ... resolute)	21:47
@preaction	and the fourth will be done soon	21:47
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@preaction	rizen: am i correct in remembering that when I ask for more information about a bug, i should close it until they respond? like http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/no-utf-8-in-proxied-sites and http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/downloading-file-using-httpproxy-fails and http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/strange-asset-manager-bug	21:50
@rizen	yes	21:51
@preaction	k, thanks	21:53
ckotil	hrm...notifyAboutUser.pm seems to fail when I call on it via createcronjob	21:58
@rizen	You can't call it from that	22:01
@rizen	The reason is that you need to set a user object	22:01
@rizen	and createCronJob doesn't allow you to define a user object	22:01
ckotil	k i thoguht that may be the case.	22:01
ckotil	so that brings me back to having to create a custom activity for WebGUI::VersionTag to be able to send an email to a specific email address.	22:02
@preaction	sounds like a good feature, you could specify a CS's e-mail address and make a CS with "This version tag needs approval" and have a thread about "Should we approve this content?"	22:03
@preaction	but anyway	22:03
ckotil	yes.	22:03
ckotil	thats basically what im using it for, just sending an email to a CS, rather, to an email list	22:03
@rizen	the ability to send it to a specific address would be a good feature for the current notifyAbout VersionTag activity	22:08
@rizen	if you make it work you should submit it for inclusion into the core	22:08
ckotil	yes, its actually crucial for me	22:08
ckotil	ok cool.	22:08
@rizen	it would be in there already except it hadn't ocurred to me that someone would want to hard code the email address like that	22:09
@rizen	i always thought it would be a more dynamic process	22:09
@rizen	hence the reason it works the way it does	22:09
ckotil	yah	22:10
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@snapcount	I think I finally have a way to fix this ems bug	22:29
ckotil	is there another step i need to follow when i ad a new workflow activity to the webgui.conf file? bc it showed up as a blank line in the Add new workflow activity screen.	22:31
ckotil	i missed something. lemme recheck.	22:31
ckotil	ah, its missing an il8n entry.	22:33
ckotil	i18n*	22:34
@preaction	go snappy!	22:34
greghacke	snappy must be removing EMS	22:35
@snapcount	heh	22:38
@snapcount	the thought has crossed my mind	22:38
@snapcount	this one was tricky	22:38
@snapcount	the EMS uses two different shopping carts, sometimes both at the same time =/	22:38
@snapcount	this could obviously be problematic	22:39
@snapcount	weeeeeee	22:39
greghacke	ouch. double ouch. literally	22:39
@snapcount	I'm ready to move onto new bugs so hopefully this will pan out	22:39
+perlDreamer	preaction, ckotil: IIRC, my testing presentation is at http://www.sunsetpres.org/web/webgui	22:45
@preaction	danke	22:46
ckotil	where do I assign an activityID to my workflow activity?	22:46
@preaction	only an instance of an activity has an id, so when you're creating the instance to put in the workflow	22:47
+perlDreamer	gooeybot: testing is tutorial available at http://www.sunsetpres.org/web/webgui	22:47
gooeybot	OK, perlDreamer.	22:47
+perlDreamer	gooeybot botsnack	22:47
gooeybot	:)	22:47
+perlDreamer	good gooeybot	22:47
@preaction	if you look at the 7.2.3-7.3.0, somewhere in there I make a new activity to add to the hourly workflow scheduler	22:48
@preaction	(which was wrong and i should be smote for)	22:48
ckotil	ah.	22:48
+perlDreamer	preaction: re images in the RTE disappearing, there's a built-in function to be used instead of the one the image linker is currently using	22:48
+perlDreamer	all you need to do is trace the code for the regular linker instead of the Asset linker	22:49
@preaction	k, sounds good	22:49
@preaction	if i can just tear myself away from helping people in #css	22:49
ckotil	you know what table i need to insert info into for my new activity?	22:49
@preaction	sometimes it's fun to deal with easy issues like CSS and HTML problems, instead of deep Perl bugs and JS crap	22:50
@preaction	ckotil: insert? use the API	22:50
greghacke	didn't realize you were a css guru	22:50
+perlDreamer	ckotil, you shouldn't need to do custom inserts	22:50
ckotil	ok	22:50
* ckotil ducks		22:50
@preaction	greghacke: certainly not guru level (though there are some regulars in that channel who are)	22:51
+perlDreamer	dude, you should get your boss to give you some WebGUI hacking time. Two hours per week for bug fixing and RFE implementing will do wonders for your code-fu.	22:51
ckotil	im to the point where my activity gets listed out at the add new activity screen, but the line is blank.	22:51
@preaction	i'm more of a trial and error kind of person	22:51
@preaction	when it comes to CSS	22:51
@preaction	ckotil: did you fill in the correct definition information?	22:51
@preaction	ckotil: pastebin your activity perhaps?	22:52
+perlDreamer	sub definition is your friend	22:52
ckotil	sure.	22:52
@preaction	perlbot paste	22:52
perlbot	Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.	22:52
@preaction	those are nice perl-specific pastebins	22:52
@preaction	but avoid the "Notify #Perl" part	22:52
+perlDreamer	look at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/DecayKarma.pm for a nice workflow activity example	22:53
ckotil	http://paste.biz/paste-438.html	22:54
ckotil	seems im the only one using paste.biz today	22:54
ckotil	i think i have it written properly	22:55
ckotil	doh. almost, i need use WebGUI::Mail::Send	22:55
ckotil	..and macro	22:56
+perlDreamer	man! Everything is coming Portland	22:58
+perlDreamer	RailsConf, Ubuntu, OSCON	22:58
ckotil	k well i cheated and looked at the source, pasted it in my url bar, added the activity to the workflow. ran it...now awaiting an email. or ill check the log for errors	22:59
ckotil	OMG	22:59
@preaction	you might want to use proper code practices too, naming: "Workflow_Activity_SendEmailAboutVersionTag" should be the name of your i18n file	22:59
ckotil	w000tt	22:59
ckotil	ok.	22:59
@preaction	of course, when you write the RFE to add your feature, it'll probably get cleaned up (or I can do it sometime next week)	23:00
@preaction	since we cant' add it until 7.4 anyway	23:00
@preaction	if you have Perl Best Practices, most of the stuff in there is what WebGUI is going to try to do in the future	23:00
ckotil	alright. ill attach my .pm to the rfe	23:00
@preaction	word	23:00
ckotil	ya i heard that webgui is following 'WebGUI' Best Practices	23:01
ckotil	we have that book	23:01
@preaction	which just means that JT took a marker to my book, scratched out "Perl" and wrote "WebGUI" in its place	23:01
ckotil	ya, i read that. haha	23:01
@snapcount	well crap	23:01
@snapcount	this way won't fix this	23:01
@preaction	literally...	23:01
@snapcount	time for plan bravo niner	23:02
@preaction	i am the proud owner of the only copy of WebGUI Best Practices ;)	23:02
ckotil	hehe	23:02
@snapcount	he did the same thing to my book preaction	23:02
@preaction	snapcount: Roger, 555	23:02
@snapcount	so nanny nanny boo boo	23:02
@preaction	HARLOT!	23:02
@snapcount	stick your head in...	23:02
@snapcount	oh wait	23:02
@preaction	10 steps ahead of your!	23:02
@preaction	something	23:02
@preaction	and your mother smells of elderberries!	23:02
+perlDreamer	and your father is a hedgehog	23:03
+perlDreamer	come now, resorting to Monty Python?	23:03
@snapcount	are you suggesting an african swallow...	23:03
@preaction	maybe if they tied it to a string	23:03
+perlDreamer	especially when everyone else in the channel is a Sam Kinnison fan....	23:03
@snapcount	lol	23:03
@preaction	kinnison sucks	23:03
@preaction	there	23:03
@preaction	i said it	23:03
@snapcount	ok... I have to go figure out a different way to do this	23:03
@snapcount	this way breaks way more than it fixes	23:04
@snapcount	which is contrary to our doctrine	23:04
@snapcount	all these damn helicopters and sirens don't make it any easier to think for sure	23:04
@preaction	so i should write a test BEFORE i start fixing a bug, right?	23:04
+perlDreamer	yes	23:04
+perlDreamer	YES!	23:04
+perlDreamer	aaaahhhhhhhhh!	23:04
@preaction	now i get it	23:04
@preaction	what if i require refactoring the code?	23:05
+perlDreamer	write two tests	23:05
+perlDreamer	strike that	23:05
+perlDreamer	make sure that your tests give 100% code coverage for the current stuff	23:05
+perlDreamer	then refactor	23:05
@preaction	or just use Test::MockObject?	23:05
@preaction	well, i'm thinking if the bug is in a www_* method, then we've got issues unless it can be refactored out somehow	23:06
+perlDreamer	you can call www methods so long as you don't need to pass in a form param	23:06
+perlDreamer	and there are ways around that, too, if need be	23:06
@snapcount	ok... I need other opinions	23:07
+perlDreamer	no, those pants don't make you look fat	23:07
@snapcount	the problem I have is this	23:07
+perlDreamer	I definitely had too much sugar for lunch	23:07
+perlDreamer	sorry, dude	23:07
greghacke	happens	23:07
@snapcount	if you login and decide to purchase a "badge" for $100.00	23:08
@snapcount	then click "Add to cart"	23:08
@snapcount	then like a dummy, you just logout	23:08
@snapcount	10 years later	23:08
greghacke	(which is VERY common)	23:08
@snapcount	you log back in	23:08
@snapcount	well, now the EMS has no idea that you have an old event chilling in the commerce cart	23:09
@preaction	it shouldn't BE chilling	23:09
@snapcount	indeed	23:09
@snapcount	that's my opinion as well... it should die	23:09
@snapcount	but how	23:09
@snapcount	it's in the commerce cart now	23:09
@preaction	don't carts have a lastUpdated date?	23:09
@preaction	or users have a lastLoggedIn somekindofthing?	23:10
@snapcount	and... the commerce system was designed to persist carts across logins	23:10
@preaction	there should be a timeout though, say a month? or a week?	23:10
@snapcount	well, even if it's two seconds	23:10
@preaction	but that would still not fix it, because what if they log back in between	23:10
@preaction	yeah	23:10
@snapcount	it creates a problem	23:10
@preaction	EMS will have to look for carts from that user?	23:10
@snapcount	because the ems says, you've spent $0	23:10
@snapcount	then they buy the same damn thing or something completely different	23:11
@snapcount	and it says you've spent 100.00	23:11
@snapcount	then they get to commerce checkout	23:11
@snapcount	and there is extra stuff there and a different total	23:11
@snapcount	of course they don't notice	23:11
@snapcount	panic ensues	23:11
@preaction	so the EMS is using a separate "temporary cart" of some sort?	23:11
@snapcount	yes... it has to	23:12
@snapcount	because of the way pricing is manipulated	23:12
@preaction	oh god	23:12
@snapcount	there are discounts, exceptions to this that and the other thing	23:12
@preaction	discounts should probably have been implemented as separate Products	23:12
@snapcount	if you bought 'a' while standing on your head you get 8.3% off of items 'c' and 'd' and 'f' is now free	23:12
@snapcount	but 'b' costs an extra 1.00	23:13
@preaction	... wait. what?	23:13
@preaction	wtf	23:13
@snapcount	yeah	23:13
@snapcount	it's insanely flexible	23:13
@preaction	s/flexible// # fixed that for you	23:13
@snapcount	the discounts are defined by the admin inside the EMS	23:13
@snapcount	so I can't make a new module for each one	23:14
@snapcount	we pushed way past what commerce was designed to handle	23:14
@preaction	i see...	23:14
@snapcount	so now we have problems like this	23:14
* perlDreamer coughs* rewrite		23:14
greghacke	all kinds of wackiness in EMS	23:14
greghacke	cart needs to empty at logout.	23:14
@snapcount	we need to rewrite commerce first	23:14
@snapcount	greghacke: yes	23:14
@preaction	greghacke: it can't and it shouldn't	23:14
@snapcount	but how	23:15
greghacke	ok, the EMS cart should.	23:15
@snapcount	well it should for Event ITems in the cart	23:15
@snapcount	the EMS cart does	23:15
@snapcount	let me state what needs to happen and we can focus on a solution	23:15
@snapcount	the why is confusing and irrelevant now	23:15
@snapcount	and I need a 'how' solution	23:15
@snapcount	if there are 'Event' item types in a users shopping cart when they logout, or login	23:16
@snapcount	they need to go away	23:16
@snapcount	shopping cart being 'commerce cart'	23:16
@snapcount	other item types like subscriptions, etc should stay	23:16
@preaction	there's a runOnLogout workflow no?	23:16
@preaction	or even runOnLogin?	23:17
@snapcount	b/c the EMS can't pi$$ across the fence so to speak	23:17
@snapcount	well, that's crap	23:17
@preaction	yes	23:17
@snapcount	this needs to be in the EMS	23:17
@snapcount	not a system wide deal	23:17
@snapcount	but I don't know it's possible	23:17
@preaction	the EMS can't check the user's cart?	23:18
@snapcount	sure it can	23:18
@snapcount	but it doesn't know when someone clicks logout	23:18
@snapcount	we want to leave it in there until they logout	23:18
greghacke	agreed on logout vice login.	23:18
@preaction	so the problem is that there are Events in a user's cart, but the EMS doesn't... do what to them?	23:18
@snapcount	problem is that the EMS builds a "badge"	23:19
@snapcount	applies funky pricing and arrives at a total	23:19
+perlDreamer	can you add a trigger on op=logout to clean their cart?	23:19
@snapcount	says "I'm done" here you go commerce	23:19
@preaction	perlDreamer: what if they logout somewhere else?	23:19
@snapcount	here's the total and a description	23:19
+perlDreamer	logout == logout	23:19
@snapcount	now the person doesn't pay	23:19
@preaction	perlDreamer: he just shot down my workflow activity solution :(	23:19
@snapcount	the only solution I see	23:20
@snapcount	is if there were a hook to the commerce system that was triggered on login or logout	23:20
@snapcount	and the hook could be trapped by an item plugin	23:20
+perlDreamer	(13:19:24) perlDreamer: can you add a trigger on op=logout to clean their cart?	23:20
@preaction	snapcount: could the EMS store them until they visit, say, EMS->www_checkout, and THEN passes the stuff to commerce?	23:20
@preaction	no, that's what's happening and is the problem... crap	23:21
@snapcount	don't worry	23:21
@snapcount	it confuses me too	23:21
@snapcount	perlDreamer: I didn't see that	23:22
@snapcount	I think that's the only way to fix this but that would mean un-fixable until 7.4	23:22
+perlDreamer	and 7.4 is our Commerce rewrite anyway	23:22
@snapcount	and it's also likely a lot of work	23:22
@snapcount	it is?	23:22
@snapcount	I didn't know that	23:22
+perlDreamer	I could be wrong	23:23
@snapcount	I thought it was like 7.30	23:23
+perlDreamer	rizen->mode('accounting') today, maybe he's still listening?	23:23
@snapcount	doubt it	23:23
@snapcount	the change required is to great to justify the fix	23:23
+perlDreamer	the bugger is that we're starting to need Auth Workflows, like for login and logout	23:24
@snapcount	it needs to go through a beta cycle b/c it could affect all of commerce	23:24
+perlDreamer	yes	23:24
+perlDreamer	wait	23:24
@snapcount	so I think the solution is that we can't fix the bug right now	23:24
@snapcount	which really sucks	23:24
+perlDreamer	what about a scheduler plugin that checks session status and cleans out the necessary data?	23:24
@snapcount	no good	23:25
+perlDreamer	how come?	23:25
@snapcount	if you logout, log right back in	23:25
+perlDreamer	that's called a grace period :)	23:25
@snapcount	can't run it ever 0.1 seconds	23:25
@snapcount	yeah but it doesn't fix the problem	23:25
@snapcount	it's a field dressing that will work sometimes	23:25
@khenn	wow that was a tricky bug	23:26
+perlDreamer	well, that gives you three options: full fix, partial fix and postponed fix	23:26
@snapcount	I tried some hackery to kludge it and it broke a lot of things	23:26
@snapcount	we need to fix it the right way in 7.4	23:26
@khenn	incidentally, there is now a skipNotifications flag for assets that you can check for subscriptions to ensure that notifications aren't sent out when they shouldn't be	23:26
@preaction	khenn: the edit branch one? nice	23:27
@khenn	yeah	23:27
@khenn	that was a bitch and a half	23:27
@snapcount	wtf... why do I keep getting dropped from AIM	23:27
-!- Jamie [n=chatzill@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		23:27
@rizen	i'm sort of here	23:27
@rizen	what's up?	23:27
@snapcount	the EMS bug...	23:28
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Jamie] by preaction		23:28
@preaction	jamie better be vrby	23:28
@rizen	yup	23:28
@snapcount	I can fix it but I need logout and login to trigger a method in item plugins for anything in the commerce cart	23:28
@snapcount	one or the other really	23:28
@snapcount	doesn't matter which	23:28
@snapcount	a hook basically	23:29
+perlDreamer	preaction: how do you hash slice a hash ref?	23:29
@preaction	deref	23:30
@snapcount	seems like a change that shouldn't go into a stable release b/c of the potential for impacting so many other things	23:30
@khenn	btw, bug list is below 30 now!	23:30
@snapcount	nice!	23:30
@preaction	perlDreamer: let me try some things, i think it's %{$hashref}{"element","key","keys"}	23:30
@preaction	err.. @{$hashRef}	23:31
+perlDreamer	greghacke: i have your bug and am fixing it now	23:31
+perlDreamer	here it is:	23:32
+perlDreamer	- while (my $key = shift(@keys)) {	23:32
+perlDreamer	- $options->{$key} = shift(@values);	23:32
+perlDreamer	- }	23:32
@snapcount	uh	23:32
@preaction	perlDreamer: perl -e'$hashref={a=>1,b=>2,c=>3}; print @{$hashref}{"a","b"}'	23:33
+perlDreamer	thanks, dude!	23:33
@snapcount	so rizen: do you agree that we should hold off on that functionality	23:33
+perlDreamer	if $key is false, then the loop stops	23:33
@preaction	perlDreamer: that loop is wery bad	23:34
+perlDreamer	yes	23:34
+perlDreamer	this one is better	23:34
+perlDreamer	@{ $options }{@keys} = @values;	23:34
+perlDreamer	It's even WGBP	23:34
+perlDreamer	we need a gooeybot bug screen scraper	23:34
+perlDreamer	gooeybot: bugCount	23:34
gooeybot	perlDreamer: what?	23:34
+perlDreamer	perlDreamer there are 30 bugs	23:34
@preaction	actually, i enabled RSS for gooeybot, let's see how it works	23:34
@snapcount	I guess for now I'll update the bug with all the info and move on for now	23:35
+perlDreamer	27 bugs	23:35
+perlDreamer	26.5, really. The WSClient bug is waiting for the DonorWare team to get me a test SOAP server	23:36
ckotil	thx for the help guys. have a good superbowl weekend.	23:36
-!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit ["Go Colts"]		23:37
+perlDreamer	25.5	23:38
+perlDreamer	the other SQLForm bug is a dupe.	23:38
-!- Jamie [n=chatzill@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]"]		23:40
+perlDreamer	with regards to server names, what is Dusk?	23:41
@preaction	our gateway, and donated hosting iirc	23:41
+perlDreamer	Kristi mentioned it for the other SQLForm bug	23:42
-!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		23:45
-!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui		23:45
@snapcount	wow	23:46
@snapcount	I just wrote a small novel	23:46
+perlDreamer	can we talk about a bug I'm having problems with?	23:47
+perlDreamer	http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/file-name-entered-into-attachment-field-disappears-when-previewing-content#AfnEfuCuhqzGtrnGRjj7aQ	23:47
+perlDreamer	he just wants to save the name, not the actual attachment.	23:48
@snapcount	ah that one	23:48
+perlDreamer	yeah	23:48
@snapcount	sure	23:48
+perlDreamer	how in the world would we do this?	23:48
@snapcount	I don't think you can set the value field for a file form field	23:48
+perlDreamer	I didn't think so.	23:48
+perlDreamer	So this is an RFE?	23:48
@snapcount	I haven't looked it up, but if you can set value to prefill the field like we do with all the others	23:49
@snapcount	that would work	23:49
@snapcount	but I don't think you can do that	23:49
@snapcount	not an RFE... no way to do it	23:49
+perlDreamer	I didn't think so, because the file upload is a JS form control.	23:49
@snapcount	unless you can use JS to make it happen	23:49
+perlDreamer	yeah. You'd have to create some JS thing which said: "After you're built, insert these into yourself."	23:50
@snapcount	but if that's the case, it would become an RFE because the upload form control does not have that functionality	23:50
@snapcount	if it does, and we're simply not using it	23:50
@snapcount	that's a bug	23:50
-!- greghacke [n=greghack@c-24-23-66-147.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #webgui []		23:50
@snapcount	my $0.02	23:51
+perlDreamer	I always left shift your opinion value, snapcount	23:51
@snapcount	I wish I could left shift my paycheck value =P	23:51
@snapcount	every week	23:52
+perlDreamer	cumulatively?	23:52
@snapcount	absolutely	23:52
+perlDreamer	this is an RFE. The form control will allow you do display information, but only via Storage elements.	23:53
+perlDreamer	no storage, no persistance, no values	23:53
+perlDreamer	we're down to 6 WRE bugs, 3 PlainBlack.com bugs and 16 wG bugs	23:56
@snapcount	excellent	23:57
+perlDreamer	of the 16 bugs, 5 are out for user feedback or experimentation	23:57
@snapcount	they should be closed then	23:58
@snapcount	can you close bugs?	23:58
+perlDreamer	yes, I am bug empowered	23:58
@snapcount	make it so	23:58
@snapcount	=)	23:58
+perlDreamer	Ich herre and verstehen, mein Herr	23:58
--- Day changed Sat Feb 03 2007
+perlDreamer	who has shell access to plainblack.com?	00:01
@preaction	yo!	00:01
+perlDreamer	check out /tmp and see if there'sa file in there called post.log for me, please?	00:01
@preaction	that name-saving thing i want to take a look at later, so i'll bookmark it	00:01
@preaction	perlDreamer: kk	00:01
-!- greghacke [n=greghack@c-24-23-66-147.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		00:03
@preaction	perlDreamer: looks like about 13 pages of output, you want a copy sent to an e-mail address?	00:04
+perlDreamer	yes, please	00:04
@preaction	sents	00:07
+perlDreamer	muchas	00:07
+perlDreamer	Can one of y'all take a crack at Kristi's SQLForm bug? I can't duplicate it on my dev box.	00:07
greghacke	url for bug?	00:08
gooeybot	i guess bug is that if there's a bunch of errors in spectre workflows	00:08
+perlDreamer	It's needs to be a PB dev, internal site access and all that	00:08
greghacke	still... I'd like to peek at it...	00:09
+perlDreamer	It's at the top of the list	00:09
greghacke	thx	00:09
+perlDreamer	greghacke, there's another thing you could help with. Do you have a firewall with proxy running?	00:09
+perlDreamer	this bug	00:10
+perlDreamer	http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/statistics-doesnt-take-into-account-proxy-settings#UQN7MzC3gBKWVUoY0Q76oA	00:10
+perlDreamer	needs someone smarter than me to try and fix it	00:10
+perlDreamer	preaction: thanks, but the log is clean.	00:13
@preaction	sunuvva	00:13
+perlDreamer	can you rerun your query from yesterday about dateSubmitted/dateUpdated for me and check for any hiccups in the last 14 hours?	00:13
@preaction	k	00:14
@preaction	khenn, paging khenn, are you working on the CS replies bug as well?	00:16
@preaction	perlDreamer: looks like two of them, finding a pastebin	00:16
@preaction	do you want epoch times or any other information?	00:16
@preaction	perhaps a dump of those rows?	00:17
+perlDreamer	assetIds, and dateSubmitted/dateUpdated data, please	00:17
+perlDreamer	because here's the thing	00:17
+perlDreamer	the log file didn't catch those	00:17
+perlDreamer	which means we now know where the bug isn't	00:17
+perlDreamer	fixing this would be a great way to start the weekend	00:18
@preaction	you just want where dateSubmitted not equals to dateUpdated correct?	00:18
+perlDreamer	yes	00:18
+perlDreamer	especially the off by one kind	00:18
@preaction	http://paste.biz/paste-440.html	00:19
@preaction	looks like 1 and 2 seconds are both there	00:19
+perlDreamer	I hate to pester you, but could I have epoch times instead? that matches my log data format	00:21
@preaction	sure	00:22
@preaction	rofl one just happened	00:23
+perlDreamer	this is nuts	00:23
+perlDreamer	but it isn't a perl problem	00:23
@preaction	reload the page	00:23
@preaction	er	00:23
@preaction	http://paste.biz/paste-441.html	00:24
+perlDreamer	any reason you can think of why some Posts would have commit called on them, but not others?	00:26
+perlDreamer	I haven't checked them all, but the 2 "bad" Posts never had commit called on them.	00:27
+perlDreamer	and one good one did	00:27
@preaction	where are the posts from?	00:27
+perlDreamer	you mean, like which Forum?	00:28
@preaction	yeah	00:28
+perlDreamer	I don't know	00:29
@preaction	i'll check, some may be "commit with approval", but i'm betting they're all in the support forums	00:29
+perlDreamer	did you peek through the logfile?	00:29
@preaction	hang on, closing a bug	00:29
xdanger	preaction: didn't have the time yesterday to look at the upgrade&calendar... But I have a question...	00:38
xdanger	is there a way to catch "Illegal division by zero at..." error on a whole script level? not just putting the part in eval {};	00:38
@preaction	xdanger: paste the part you'd put in eval{}, this might have to be refactored	00:38
@preaction	perhaps a subroutine call?	00:39
@preaction	sub safe_divide() { eval { $_[0] / $_[1] } }	00:39
xdanger	it's just: $var = sprintf("%.2f", $x / ($y + $z);	00:40
xdanger	hmm... mayby I should do that..	00:40
@preaction	so $var = sprintf("%.2f", _safe_divide("$x / ($y + $z))); sub _safe_divide { eval $_[0] }	00:41
@preaction	or something	00:41
@preaction	make sure to document it, for maintainability's sake	00:42
xdanger	just that I have a script and I have to change many lines... and if I just do $var = sprintf("%.2f", eval { $x / ($y + $z) }); I have less writing =)	00:45
@preaction	right, but never tell yourself "it'll only be used for one thing and then thrown away", some day you'll be like "HEY! didn't i write a script that does this almost?" and you'll want to be able to read it	00:46
@preaction	perlbot laziness	00:46
perlbot	The quality that makes you go to great effort to reduce overall energy expenditure. It makes you write labor-saving programs that other people will find useful, and document what you wrote so you don't have to answer so many questions about it. Hence, the first great virtue of a programmer.	00:46
@preaction	i think i'm talking at an oblique angle to what you're talking	00:47
xdanger	Yeah...	00:48
@preaction	perlDreamer: i've got a new paste for you in a couple minutes. Posts with their URL and their parent's URL	00:48
+perlDreamer	cool	00:48
+perlDreamer	the good news is that it's happening frequently enough on PB.com that we should be able to find it and fix it	00:48
+perlDreamer	the bad news is that I still have no idea where it is happening	00:48
xdanger	I was just wondering if there was some way to "catch" that on a whole script level.. like "use weird_devision_by_zero_fix;" kinda solution ;)	00:49
@preaction	how do i get the maximum revision date in a join?	00:49
xdanger	subselect	00:49
@preaction	xdanger: use fatals perhaps?	00:49
@preaction	divide by zero is a runtime error	00:49
@preaction	so you just have to check for it	00:50
@preaction	you should've been checking for it the entire time :p	00:50
+perlDreamer	assetData.revisionDate=(SELECT max(revisionDate) from assetData where assetData.assetId=asset.assetId and (assetData.status='approved' or assetData.tagId=".$session->db->quote($session->scratch->get("versionTag")).")	00:50
+perlDreamer	that's close to the right answer	00:50
+perlDreamer	gooeybot: maxRevisionDate is assetData.revisionDate=(SELECT max(revisionDate) from assetData where assetData.assetId=asset.assetId)	00:51
gooeybot	i haven't a clue, perldreamer	00:51
+perlDreamer	gooeybot: maxRevisionDate is this or that	00:51
gooeybot	OK, perlDreamer.	00:51
+perlDreamer	gooeybot: forget maxRevisionDate	00:51
gooeybot	perlDreamer: I forgot maxrevisiondate	00:51
+perlDreamer	gooeybot: maxrevisiondate is assetData.revisionDate=(SELECT max(revisionDate) from assetData where assetData.assetId=asset.assetId)	00:52
gooeybot	no idea, perldreamer	00:52
@preaction	it's moronic...	00:52
+perlDreamer	it must be the embedded punctuation	00:52
xdanger	it doesn't like you...	00:56
xdanger	that must be it =)	00:57
@preaction	http://paste.biz/paste-442.html <- of course it's near impossible to read...	00:57
+perlDreamer	not isolated to any CS. That's good.	00:58
+perlDreamer	some Threads and some Posts.	00:58
+perlDreamer	that means it's either in the Post or CS code	00:59
+perlDreamer	and the logs say that $now stayed constant in the addRevision sub. That means no perl strangeness	00:59
+perlDreamer	I thought I was being over paranoid in my logging, now I wish there was more!	01:00
@preaction	there's also no extra revisions of these assets, and you said the other night there's no call to update to update the appropriate columns, correct?	01:01
@preaction	rather, three of them have only one revision, 5 of them have multiple revisions	01:01
+perlDreamer	there are no literal calls to dateUpdated or dateSubmitted in the codebase, they might be masked in hashes	01:01
+perlDreamer	where are you getting the revision data?	01:02
@preaction	i did another query	01:02
@preaction	without grouping by revisionDate	01:02
+perlDreamer	well, that's actually good, too.	01:02
@preaction	all the revisions have the same dateSubmitted and dateUpdated	01:02
@preaction	it has to be something on the initial creation	01:02
+perlDreamer	do you mean all subsequent revisions?	01:03
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@preaction	yes	01:03
@preaction	i'll paste it	01:03
@preaction	http://paste.biz/paste-443.html	01:03
+perlDreamer	let's start appending this to the bug	01:03
+perlDreamer	for permanent records	01:04
@preaction	all of these dumps?	01:05
@preaction	or just distill the information?	01:05
+perlDreamer	I'd say both	01:05
+perlDreamer	others might see something that we're missing	01:05
+perlDreamer	preaction: any ideas?	01:33
@preaction	none whatsoever	01:33
+perlDreamer	I'll send JT a new Post.pm with additional debugging code tonight or tomorrow.	01:34
greghacke	JT still around?	01:36
+perlDreamer	he's in channel, call him by nick	01:36
greghacke	will in a bit. he's in accounting mode I believe I heard earlier	01:36
+perlDreamer	that's the fastest way to kill a hacker	01:41
+perlDreamer	make him process numbers	01:41
@preaction	it's the fastest way to interest me, i'll be writing programs to do it for me :p	01:42
@preaction	i remember writing a spec for a system that would manage all my projects, including invoicing	01:42
@preaction	never got around to tackling that mammoth	01:43
+perlDreamer	can you build it into the Project Manager?	01:43
@preaction	it is the project manager	01:43
+perlDreamer	does it invoice?	01:43
@preaction	i don't know if the PM does	01:43
@preaction	i specced this for my own cms, Comm_Ctrl	01:43
@preaction	was going to plugin to the Cart, so that I could take credit cards for services	01:44
+perlDreamer	do you know what the default cache timeout is for WebGUI::Cache?	01:51
+perlDreamer	nm, there aren't any	01:53
+perlDreamer	it's all size based	01:53
+perlDreamer	preaction: can you please test the 7.3.8 to 7.3.9 upgrade script? I'm getting an error.	02:01
@preaction	sure	02:01
@preaction	perlDreamer: damnit frank	02:02
@preaction	damnit damnit damnit	02:02
@preaction	i'll fix it	02:02
@preaction	wait	02:03
+perlDreamer	what's wrong with it? The syntax looks okay to me.	02:03
@preaction	he added code to the core	02:03
@preaction	that expects an additional field	02:03
@preaction	but that field isn't made when it needs to be	02:03
@preaction	IT'S NOT EVEN ADDED AT ALL	02:03
+perlDreamer	missing sub call	02:04
greghacke	wow, I can feel the heat from here...	02:04
@preaction	i've fixed it, testing	02:04
@preaction	rofl, it breaks the update templates	02:05
@preaction	give me 5 minutes	02:05
+perlDreamer	yeah, I've got a workaround by moving that updateTemplates just before closing the session	02:05
@preaction	that was the plan	02:05
+perlDreamer	I'll commit this.	02:06
@preaction	or rather, i was going to call it before finish(), so it's obvious what's happening	02:06
@preaction	k	02:06
+perlDreamer	which bug are you hacking on?	02:06
+perlDreamer	the JS one?	02:06
@preaction	i'm done	02:06
@preaction	i'm getting ready for about 16 hours of sleep	02:06
+perlDreamer	committed	02:07
greghacke	omg, i'd pay money for 2 hours of sleep.	02:07
@preaction	perlDreamer: verified, it works	02:10
@preaction	thanks	02:10
greghacke	rizen - i fired you out a file.	02:10
+perlDreamer	thank _you. It's nice to check that mysql 4 still works with wG	02:10
+perlDreamer	preaction: now go sleep!	02:11
greghacke	da	02:11
@preaction	mysql 4?	02:11
greghacke	verily	02:11
+perlDreamer	yawp	02:11
@preaction	you? or me?	02:11
+perlDreamer	me	02:11
+perlDreamer	my dev box at $dayJob	02:12
@preaction	ahh	02:12
+perlDreamer	very old, very slow FC4 box	02:12
@preaction	nice	02:12
@preaction	how's its uptime/load avgs?	02:12
+perlDreamer	we had a full site power outage 29 days ago	02:12
@preaction	nm, my p90 / 32meg RAM would not run WebGUI	02:12
+perlDreamer	it's very lightly loaded in any case	02:13
+perlDreamer	P3 500MHz	02:13
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greghacke	Good evening.	02:50
+crythias	hi	02:51
greghacke	kinda quiet here tonight. everyone must have lives or something	02:51
Radix__	mornin' - and no, why would you think that? :)	02:52
greghacke	it's been quiet for 40 minutes. like silent.	02:53
+perlDreamer	preaction is sleeping, and I'm working on the winning WCC entry.	02:53
greghacke	oh really? gonna beat my EMS HowTo?	02:53
greghacke	:-)	02:53
+perlDreamer	what EMS HowTo?	02:53
greghacke	writing an EMS how-to.	02:54
+perlDreamer	I mean, I haven't seen one on the Wiki yet.	02:54
greghacke	yeah :-( it's more work than I initially thought... every step is frought with "oh, crap - gotta cover that too)	02:55
+perlDreamer	it's a big, big system	02:55
+perlDreamer	okay, it's the weekend.	02:55
+perlDreamer	I'm outta here	02:56
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PedersenMJ	Well, I would say g'day, but Radix might beat me senseless for doing so.	05:44
Hinrik	I'll say it for you: g'day.	06:10
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greghacke	good morning, perlbot	16:59
perlbot	Any morning you wake up is a good one.	16:59
greghacke	good morning, gooeybot	16:59
gooeybot	greghacke: i'm not following you...	16:59
greghacke	anyone else on today?	17:06
Radix__	no	17:06
greghacke	Excellent.	17:07
greghacke	<!-- <td height="23" align="left" valign="bottom"><div align="left"></div></td> -->	17:18
greghacke	(the end of 129 should be - - > without the spaces)	17:18
greghacke	wow, I am unintelligent today.	17:19
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greghacke	what is TANSTAAFL?	18:42
greghacke	Do we have and SQLForm gurus on this afternoon?	19:02
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greghacke	if anyone from PB pops through, the forums aren't posting - made a post about an hour ago and it hasn't appearsd. Looks like s spectre issue.	20:22
greghacke	rizen: spectre seems down on plainblack.com , no CS is processing.	20:54
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+perlDreamer	boy it's quiet today	23:32
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--- Day changed Sun Feb 04 2007
+perlDreamer	does anyone know if we're going to switch to GPL v3 when it comes out?	00:20
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@preaction	finally colloquy won't die when someone sends malformed DCC requests...	05:19
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@preaction	of course, that doesn't mean my verdamnt internet connection is going to stay alive	05:20
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+perlDreamer	okay you rowdies. What are you up to?	05:37
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wgGuest23	i am new in WebGiu	11:02
wgGuest23	any one can help me in installation of WebGui	11:02
wgGuest23	thanks in advance	11:02
wgGuest23	how to find the user installation guide?	11:04
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* perlDreamer feeds snapcount's crickets		19:51
+perlDreamer	you guys must be hungry from all that chirping	19:51
+perlDreamer	#webgui is a M-F kind of channel	19:51
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+perlDreamer	rizen, are you around?	03:02
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PedersenMJ	heya	04:43
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+perlDreamer	hey, roy	06:12
+perlDreamer	er, snapcount	06:12
@snapcount	si	06:12
+perlDreamer	I've been feeding the crickets	06:12
+perlDreamer	Now that you're here, I'll let you watch them for a while.	06:13
+perlDreamer	Chirpy is a little out of tune	06:13
+perlDreamer	He may be sick	06:13
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greghacke	Good morning.	17:19
greghacke	Or should I say good day, all.	17:19
+MrHairgrease	good afternoon ould be more appropriate in my tz	17:20
greghacke	I could see that. So, I'm becoming a SQLForm user. Wow, it's powerful but someday i'll have to figure out how to bulk-upload data through it.	17:22
+MrHairgrease	bulk upload?	17:23
+MrHairgrease	you mean like the file pile?	17:23
greghacke	well, i created a table with sqlform. now i want to move 18000 records to it :-)	17:24
+MrHairgrease	ah	17:24
+MrHairgrease	i see	17:24
+MrHairgrease	are these records already in a database?	17:24
greghacke	yep. MySQL5 even.	17:25
+MrHairgrease	ok	17:25
+MrHairgrease	that's good	17:25
+MrHairgrease	so why don't you just import that table?	17:25
+MrHairgrease	and let the sqlform handle all the import stuff for you	17:25
+MrHairgrease	(to some extend)	17:26
greghacke	It's on my local machine and I am on a shared (agency hosting)	17:26
+MrHairgrease	yeah	17:26
+MrHairgrease	but don't you have accces to your db?	17:26
greghacke	You mean my secondary database? yes, but only through wG.	17:27
+MrHairgrease	i see	17:27
+MrHairgrease	the login is limited to the server on which yor wg site runs?	17:27
greghacke	Correct. (it's through pb on a agency hosting plan so the only access is through/via pb)	17:28
+MrHairgrease	ok	17:28
+MrHairgrease	well in that case	17:28
+MrHairgrease	you should create a script that you run locally	17:28
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+MrHairgrease	which fetches all the records from your db	17:28
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+MrHairgrease	and then does from posts to the sqlfrom	17:29
+MrHairgrease	or you could hire some monkeys	17:29
+MrHairgrease	to type it over manually =)	17:29
+MrHairgrease	and hope for the best	17:29
+MrHairgrease	=)	17:29
greghacke	is what I thought. probably going to a basic dedicated soon - once i get these records up I can finally go home. at that point, i'll upgrade to a basic and have a bit more access.	17:30
+MrHairgrease	ok	17:31
+MrHairgrease	creating the script would be real easy btw	17:31
+MrHairgrease	just use lwp::simple or something like that	17:31
+MrHairgrease	it can handle cookies	17:31
+MrHairgrease	which you need in order to let your script login	17:32
greghacke	thanks though. confirmed what I thought. it should be easy but i'm not script friendly today - too many pain meds to focus enough.	17:32
+MrHairgrease	there's some code in the itransact plugin that the exact same trhing	17:32
+MrHairgrease	except that it does some form post	17:32
+MrHairgrease	involving credit cards stuff	17:33
+MrHairgrease	rather that the sql form	17:33
greghacke	for response from itransact responses	17:33
+MrHairgrease	good luck\]	17:33
greghacke	thanks, MrH.	17:33
+MrHairgrease	np	17:33
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@khenn	happy monday!	18:49
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@khenn	wow, quiet today	20:01
@khenn	no perlDreamer	20:01
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+perlDreamer	has anyone seen preaction this morning?	20:21
greghacke	speak of the devil... I haven't seen preaction	20:23
+perlDreamer	he was going to help me with a bug this morning	20:23
+perlDreamer	I helped somebody on boards today who was using wG 5.1.2	20:24
+perlDreamer	I assumed, falsely, that people using open source software tended to stay near the front	20:24
greghacke	i would have assumed something like that as well.	20:26
greghacke	definately quiet...	21:01
+perlDreamer	yeah, what's up?	21:01
greghacke	just odd. used to seeing something come up and create conversation	21:02
+perlDreamer	are you still in data normalization nirvana?	21:11
greghacke	Oh, no. I finally finished all 12000 records. Now to get them up into a data table on my secondary database and run some training so I can go home.	21:12
greghacke	finished I guess is polite. there will be normalization for months as they trim dupicates but it's a start.	21:12
+perlDreamer	do you have a wG install > v7.1 around?	21:13
greghacke	i think so. if not, i can install the wre.	21:14
+perlDreamer	can you check to see if you have a SQLReport/Download template installed?	21:14
greghacke	checking	21:15
greghacke	I do not.	21:15
greghacke	double checking	21:15
+perlDreamer	that's what I was afraid of	21:15
greghacke	I was correct. I do not have SQLReport/Download template anywhere I can locate.	21:16
+MrHairgrease	can i help out perhaps?	21:19
+MrHairgrease	i have a svn copy handy	21:19
+perlDreamer	of 7.1.0 specifically?	21:19
+MrHairgrease	no	21:19
+MrHairgrease	7.3.9	21:19
+perlDreamer	I think the 7.1.0 upgrade is broken	21:19
+perlDreamer	it was supposed to install two new SQLReport templates	21:19
+perlDreamer	and they don't exist on any of 3 different wG installs that I've seen	21:20
+MrHairgrease	but it doesn't?	21:20
+MrHairgrease	ok	21:20
+MrHairgrease	i can check that on another site	21:20
+perlDreamer	cool	21:20
+MrHairgrease	went from 6.8.6 > 7.3.2	21:20
+MrHairgrease	moment	21:20
+perlDreamer	we're looking for a template with assetId SQLReportDownload0001	21:20
+perlDreamer	I see the problem	21:22
+perlDreamer	the template did not include the "create" flag, so the template uploaded	21:22
+perlDreamer	tried to create a new revision of a non-existant template	21:23
+MrHairgrease	ok	21:23
+perlDreamer	that failed	21:23
+MrHairgrease	can't find it	21:23
+MrHairgrease	ah	21:23
+perlDreamer	I guess the question now is how to fix it.	21:26
+MrHairgrease	fix it in the 7.3.8->7.3.9 upgrade	21:26
+MrHairgrease	don't think there's another way	21:27
+perlDreamer	yeah, you're right	21:27
+perlDreamer	I'll add the template to the 7.3.9 upgrade area, write up a blurb for the gotcha, and then close the bug	21:49
+perlDreamer	thanks for your help, guys	21:49
greghacke	pleasure.	21:50
+MrHairgrease	np	21:50
+perlDreamer	MrHairGrease, did you get my feedback in time to be useful?	21:50
+MrHairgrease	yes	21:51
+perlDreamer	good	21:51
+MrHairgrease	didn't you get the thank you email?	21:51
+perlDreamer	I haven't checked my gmail account yet today	21:52
+MrHairgrease	oh ok	21:52
+perlDreamer	but I will right after I come back from running	21:52
+MrHairgrease	thanks anyway!	21:52
+perlDreamer	you're welcome	21:52
* perlDreamer is running		21:52
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khenn	hmm	21:59
khenn	exit	21:59
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khenn	wierd	21:59
khenn	not getting ops for some reason	21:59
khenn	Colin, are you around on IM?	22:00
greghacke	he went running	22:01
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ckotil	is there a reference for ErrorHandler::warn ?	22:37
ckotil	i wanna know what warn[427] means	22:37
+perlDreamer	ckotil: I think that's the line number that generated the warning	22:56
+perlDreamer	you can find the error log format in the /data/WebGUI/etc/log.conf file	22:56
ckotil	ah	23:01
ckotil	hrm. i cant make any sense of it.	23:03
+perlDreamer	can you paste the whole thing?	23:03
ckotil	2007/02/04 04:52:12 - WARN - globalnoc.webgui.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::warn[427] - The URL jumbomtu.html was requested, but does not exist in your asset tree.	23:03
+perlDreamer	that was probably called in WebGUI.pm	23:04
ckotil	Apache died for unapparent reason at 4:00 UTC that day, im trying to track down why.	23:04
ckotil	im hoping webgui isnt to blame.	23:04
+perlDreamer	me, too :(	23:04
+perlDreamer	We fixed over 50 bugs last week	23:04
ckotil	thats awsome.	23:04
+perlDreamer	although, I guess learning about existant bugs sooner is better than later	23:04
ckotil	we had just migrated a site over to our webserver. www.nlr.net and they had some weird shit in there conf. i think thats to blame.	23:05
ckotil	but havent found anything conclusive yet	23:05
+MrHairgrease	ckotil	23:09
+MrHairgrease	that error just means	23:09
+MrHairgrease	somebody went to yoursiet.com/jumbomtu.html	23:09
ckotil	ok	23:09
+MrHairgrease	and that page aparently does not exist in your assettree	23:09
ckotil	i see that error all the time	23:09
+MrHairgrease	yeah	23:09
+MrHairgrease	favico.ico	23:10
ckotil	its just that htis one time it had an error code with it	23:10
ckotil	i thoguht it might be something else	23:10
ckotil	something more serious	23:10
+MrHairgrease	don't think so	23:10
ckotil	web crawlers are usually the culprits	23:10
+MrHairgrease	could be	23:10
+MrHairgrease	but it's not a bad error	23:10
ckotil	yah. its the equivalent of a 404 error	23:11
+MrHairgrease	indeed	23:11
ckotil	Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /gnoc/globalnoc/htdocs/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 564.	23:20
ckotil	thats an odd one.	23:20
+perlDreamer	that's probably a file without an extension	23:21
ckotil	wierd thing was that i saw that error in apache's error_log , and not webgui.log	23:23
+MrHairgrease	that's a perl warning	23:24
+MrHairgrease	not a webgui warn	23:24
ckotil	ah.	23:24
+MrHairgrease	they do not cause problems in general	23:24
+MrHairgrease	say	23:24
+MrHairgrease	i have $a and $b	23:24
+MrHairgrease	and I do $a.$b	23:25
+MrHairgrease	and either one of em is undef	23:25
+MrHairgrease	perl will throw that warning	23:25
ckotil	ya i did some concatination in the custom workflow activity i created. im gonna debug it.	23:25
+MrHairgrease	it's not a bug	23:25
+MrHairgrease	probably	23:25
+MrHairgrease	if you do my $a ""	23:25
+MrHairgrease	no more error	23:25
+MrHairgrease	warning*	23:25
ckotil	ok, that easy enough. thanks	23:26
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Radix-wrk	Anyone around?	03:57
Radix-wrk	What is the hierarchy that WebGUI uses for CS's - posts and threads - which one is which? One is the initial message, and another is the replies attached to that message isn't it?	03:59
Radix-wrk	The word thread tends to imply it's what holds multiple posts together - does that mean each post calls a thread it's parent, and the cs object is made of multiple threads?	04:02
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PedersenMJ	good evening	04:10
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perlDreame1	radix-wrk: did you get your question answered?	04:17
Radix-wrk	no	04:31
Radix-wrk	I think my understanding is right tho, but wanted to confirm.. just added a bit of detail to a RFE in the hope it'd be understood better. http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/search-asset-returns-urls	04:33
perlDreame1	CS's directly contain Threads. Threads only contain Posts, Posts can contain Posts	04:33
Radix-wrk	okey.. so that should work then	04:34
perlDreame1	Yeah, The bummer is that you'd have to instantiate each Asset to find its parent	04:35
perlDreame1	$asset->getContainer, or different specific methods	04:35
perlDreame1	I almost implemented that RFE for fun last weekend	04:35
perlDreame1	the instantiation will make it slow	04:35
Radix-wrk	Yeah, I could understand that	04:36
Radix-wrk	Would make search so much better though	04:36
perlDreame1	It would be a nice feature	04:36
perlDreame1	The nice thing about the way it works now is that you don't have to scan to find which asset contains your string	04:37
perlDreame1	but the Find key works in most browsers	04:37
@preaction	would it be possible to share user information between two wG instances by creating MySQL views?	05:18
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@preaction	oh, and 75 minutes for three donorware site migrations has to be some sort of new record ;)	05:18
@preaction	of course, it'll take them another 75 to verify everything's working aok	05:19
Radix-wrk	well done :)	05:22
perlDreame1	preaction: probably, but I didn't know you could build views across different databases.	05:25
perlDreame1	of course, I know almost nothing about views anyway	05:25
@preaction	me neither	05:25
@preaction	maybe you can't	05:25
@preaction	or maybe you can only if the user can access both databases	05:25
PedersenMJ_	Unless mysql does some really weird things, you can't build views across databases.	05:26
perlDreame1	it would be cool to have a MySQL guru come and help tune some of the db	05:26
perlDreame1	I fixed another bug today, so we're holding the line	05:27
perlDreame1	but I tried to dupe some of the other bugs, and I couldn't	05:27
PedersenMJ_	Weird, wonder where the _ after my name came from.	05:27
@preaction	you had a ghost	05:28
PedersenMJ_	Ah, okay. I see it now. Not gonna worry about it tonight.	05:29
@preaction	or just /nick PedersenMJ	05:29
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PedersenMJ	Man, it is so frustrating to realize how much I've forgotten about IRC.	05:31
perlDreame1	what you've forgotten, I've yet to learn	05:33
PedersenMJ	I used to be on it, a long time ago. Around 10 years now, I think.	05:34
PedersenMJ	This chan is the first one that's made me willing to come back since then.	05:34
perlDreame1	thanks, man	05:34
PedersenMJ	Why? What'd I do?	05:35
perlDreame1	You said that this channel made you willing to come back. That's a compliment.	05:36
perlDreame1	So I said thanks	05:36
PedersenMJ	Ah, I suppose. Well, you're welcome. I actually enjoy coming here. I just wish I dared to open up the IRC ports at work.	05:37
PedersenMJ	Wow, this I might consider getting: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820233042&name=Item-%23%3A-N82E16820233042	05:39
PedersenMJ	I'm in the market for a decent flash drive. Anybody have any specific suggestion?	05:40
Radix-wrk	Why not just get a dozen 2GB ones? so much cheaper overall	05:40
PedersenMJ	Planning on using it as a home directory for a live cd of some sort, so, 1 big drive is better.	05:42
perlDreame1	what kind of yahoo doesn't install vim on a server?	05:52
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PedersenMJ	There's only one time I didn't install vim on a server, myself, and that was on an old hp-ux server which ran the entire company, and could not, under any circumstances, be allowed to fail. I didn't want to have to pipe up and say "Yeah, I was tired of using vi, so installed vim, and it was during that install the server went down."	05:57
PedersenMJ	That would have been a very bad conversation, I think :)	05:57
perlDreame1	yes. You must be a very careful admin.	05:57
PedersenMJ	Nah, I'm usually pretty careless. But even I know enough to say "Nope, not gonna do it. Can't make me" when it's important enough.	05:58
perlDreame1	preaction: I think we need a new rule	06:04
perlDreame1	anything called get better return a copy of everything if you don't request a property by name	06:05
perlDreame1	likewise, set will not die if you don't pass it a hashref	06:05
perlDreame1	whaddya think?	06:05
@preaction	get should always return a copy, no matter what	06:05
@preaction	at least, imho	06:11
perlDreame1	I agree	06:11
perlDreame1	It made testing the AdSpace module easier	06:12
@preaction	why wouldn't set die if you don't pass it a hashref?	06:12
perlDreame1	because it's easy enough to override in the set method	06:12
@preaction	but it should die, shouldn't it? if you don't give it anything to set, that's bad	06:12
perlDreame1	If you don't give it anything to set, it shouldn't set anything. Not die.	06:13
@preaction	60 minutes since i was done that DW still can't figure out what's wrong w/ their network	06:13
@preaction	ahh	06:13
@preaction	carp or cluck at least then?	06:13
@preaction	die maybe not, but warn at least	06:13
perlDreame1	my $properties = shift \|\| {};	06:13
@preaction	my $properties = shift \|\| return; # :p	06:13
perlDreame1	that works too	06:14
perlDreame1	are you going to be around tomorrow?	06:14
@preaction	yes, i'm on support tomorrow	06:14
perlDreame1	I'm having some test coverage issues that I can't figure out.	06:14
@preaction	roy left me a full plate though	06:14
@preaction	so i'll be able to dip in and out until 5:00p, where i'll be open	06:14
perlDreame1	hmmm... 5:00pm your time is 3:00pm my time.	06:15
@preaction	i'm hoping to implement test-driven development for the DoS Alumni Q+A Live Wobject	06:15
@preaction	if i can convince frank	06:15
perlDreame1	do you mean at the API level or all the way up and down the stack?	06:16
@preaction	just for the Wobject itself	06:16
perlDreame1	right, API and/or User Interface?	06:16
@preaction	probably mostly API	06:24
@preaction	some scraping for the UI	06:24
perlDreame1	I'd like to play with Selenium one of these days	06:24
@preaction	this looks interesting indeed	06:26
perlDreame1	yeah. A scriptable browser would finally give us cross-browser regressable testing	06:26
perlDreame1	would it be pointless to sell an ad to a website with no URL associated with it?	06:33
perlDreame1	nm	06:41
perlDreame1	I'm heading offline.	06:41
perlDreame1	Goodnight, guys	06:41
@preaction	have fun	06:41
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xdanger	damn, there ain't no wre 0.7.2 for debian... dang...	06:43
PedersenMJ	I've heard that 0.8 will do Debian, though.	06:45
xdanger	0.7.2 will do too.. I think.. just that nobody has build a ready to use binary of it...	06:46
xdanger	I just didn't notice that before I started to upgrade my debian webgui server to newest of webgui =)	06:47
PedersenMJ	Ah, see, I still do it all from source. And found a bug in testEnvironment.pl because of it.	06:48
xdanger	just have to wait and see the build..	06:48
xdanger	yay! build failed...	06:48
xdanger	luckyly now, not an hour from now..	06:48
PedersenMJ	yeah, that's not something you normally see, is somebody happy that the build failed.	06:49
xdanger	does the build require some -dev packages on debian?	06:53
xdanger	I had the wre setenviroment in my bash... started a fresh session and it's working...	06:55
xdanger	well past the previous point	06:55
PedersenMJ	Never did the wre, so I honestly don't know.	07:00
PedersenMJ	I always did my own install. Next time, it's likely I switch to wre, though.	07:00
xdanger	checking for zlib location... not found	07:05
xdanger	checking whether to enable mod_deflate... configure: error: mod_deflate has been requested but can not be built due to prerequisite failures	07:05
xdanger	nice	07:05
PedersenMJ	Could be lots worse, though.	07:06
xdanger	I'd like to do webgui .deb:s.. but I'm lazy...	07:11
PedersenMJ	\Pondered doing that myself, but the gain for it would be pretty minimal, to say the least.	07:12
xdanger	but think how c00l it would be to apt-get install webgui ;)	07:12
Radix-wrk	I second that	07:14
PedersenMJ	It would be amazingly cool. But if wre 0.8 handles it, and that should be on the horizon in the near future (my opinion only), what is there to gain?	07:15
PedersenMJ	Yep, have ordered that 16G usb drive. Coupled with vmware and a knoppix dvd .iso, I can work on my own code on any laptop I choose. And honestly say afterwards that I never put my code on work computers.	07:19
xdanger	I have a mac, I just install wre ;)	07:19
* PedersenMJ is using a mac, too. Problem is that 1G of ram just is not nearly enough with how much I do. Email, shell, im, browser, and vmware/parallels >1G.		07:22
PedersenMJ	And that doesn't even cover the smaller apps I fire up during the day. sigh Must get more ram.	07:22
xdanger	I have only 1.25G	07:23
xdanger	but an old 1Ghz ibook	07:23
PedersenMJ	anyway... passing out now. time for bed. Hopefully, tomorrow night will return to normal bedtimes.	07:25
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xdanger	I'm starting to hate this building for an hour and then failing on some -dev library and have to start from the begining...	07:57
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greghacke	guten tag - dobre dyen	17:15
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@snapcount	perlDreamer: are you around?	18:58
+perlDreamer	Yes, my master.	18:58
greghacke	All hail snapcount	18:58
@snapcount	I need a professional opinion	18:59
@snapcount	see, now this is the attitude I like to see on channel	18:59
@snapcount	=P	18:59
+perlDreamer	never have less than 60 degress of phase margin	18:59
greghacke	Always set border: 0; margin: 0	18:59
@snapcount	never exceed the wattage rating on carbon resistors to let "the magic out"	19:00
+perlDreamer	The fifth of the chord should always be played slightly sharp	19:00
@snapcount	ok, so I'm fixing this CS shortcut bug	19:00
+perlDreamer	spectre seems to be having problems on PB.com	19:00
@snapcount	lovely	19:00
+perlDreamer	okay, CS shortcut bug	19:01
+perlDreamer	oh	19:01
+perlDreamer	that	19:01
+perlDreamer	I tried to dupe it and I couldn't	19:01
@snapcount	I know what's causing it	19:01
+perlDreamer	cool!	19:01
+perlDreamer	what is it?	19:01
@snapcount	but I don't know the best way to fix it	19:01
@snapcount	the cause is our old friend	19:01
@snapcount	cache	19:01
@snapcount	see, the original cs defaults to a cache timeout of 1 hour	19:02
@snapcount	so when you set the override to change threads displayed	19:02
@snapcount	it still hits cache	19:02
@snapcount	in the real cs, when you change this property, cache is purged	19:02
@snapcount	but when you set a shortcut override, it is not	19:02
@snapcount	but, I'm not sure how we can make a shortcut aware of other wobjects cache	19:03
@snapcount	well	19:03
@snapcount	private cache methods that is	19:03
@snapcount	if only it were as simple as calling assets purgeCache method	19:04
+perlDreamer	where does CS.pm interact with the Cache?	19:05
@snapcount	_visitorCacheOk	19:05
@snapcount	_visitorCacheKey	19:05
@snapcount	well, those don't directly	19:05
@snapcount	hold on	19:06
+perlDreamer	this is a pretty far reaching bug, then	19:06
+perlDreamer	since it's not only the CS that suffers from this	19:06
@snapcount	exactly	19:06
@snapcount	anything that caches a property that is not cleared by the assets purgeCache method	19:06
@snapcount	which is perhaps the solution	19:06
+perlDreamer	can we stow a flag that tells the bypasses the local Wobject's internal cache?	19:06
+perlDreamer	bypassCacheDueToShortcut	19:06
@snapcount	everything should be cleared by purgeCache no?	19:07
@snapcount	otherwise it's wasting disk space	19:07
+perlDreamer	sounds good to me, but since they don't it always makes me wonder if it's by design	19:07
+perlDreamer	or accident	19:07
@snapcount	so if saveShortcutProperties or whatever called the assets purgeCache method	19:07
@snapcount	then as long as each asset cleaned up all of its cache in purgeCache	19:08
@snapcount	it would be fixed for all	19:08
+perlDreamer	does that mean the cache could be cleared if there were alternating views to a Wobject	19:08
+perlDreamer	Wobject, Shortcut (clear), Wobject, Shortcut (clear again)	19:08
@snapcount	I don't follow what you mean	19:08
+perlDreamer	well, the cache is meant to store views by a user so they don't have to be regenerated again	19:09
+perlDreamer	(sorry, that was pedantic)	19:09
@snapcount	=)	19:09
+perlDreamer	if the cache is cleared when the Wobject is viewed through a shortcut, it would affect the usefulness of the cache.	19:09
@snapcount	no no	19:09
@snapcount	don't clear it everytime it's viewed	19:09
@snapcount	clear it everytime the shortcut overrides are saved	19:10
@snapcount	cuz that means a property has essentially changed	19:10
@snapcount	its only changed for that "view" of the asset	19:10
@snapcount	so everyone will suffer each time there is an edit	19:10
@snapcount	just like they do if you edit the original	19:10
@snapcount	perhaps I'm clear as mud....	19:11
+perlDreamer	no, I think I'm getting it	19:11
@snapcount	which part is fuzzy?	19:11
+perlDreamer	and I'm still partially confused because I tried to dupe that bug and couldn't	19:11
@snapcount	oh I can tell you how to dup	19:11
@snapcount	create a cs, commit it	19:11
@snapcount	add two posts	19:11
@snapcount	create a shortcut of the cs	19:11
@snapcount	overrides tab, change maxthreads per page to 1	19:12
@snapcount	the shortcut still shows 2 per page if admin is off	19:12
@snapcount	clear cache or edit visitor cache timeout of cs to 1 second	19:12
@snapcount	it works	19:12
+perlDreamer	okay	19:13
+perlDreamer	I must have skipped a step or something	19:13
@snapcount	the cs handles this by clearing cache everytime editSave is called	19:13
+perlDreamer	so the Shortcut should reach down into it's Asset and flush his cache.	19:13
@snapcount	everytime the overrides save method is called	19:14
@snapcount	because we have no way of knowing what properties are cached down below	19:14
@snapcount	if any	19:14
preaction__	morning gentlemen	19:14
@snapcount	but the asset by the same token also has no knowledge	19:14
preaction__	double underscore?	19:14
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@snapcount	so it will just keep using cache because it doesn't know it's being viewed by a shortcut	19:15
@snapcount	so find the flaws here	19:15
+perlDreamer	1) CS's purgeCache is broken	19:15
@snapcount	I'm talking myself into it too quickly	19:15
+perlDreamer	it sounds good	19:15
+perlDreamer	this is the definition of OO here	19:15
+perlDreamer	"You go and clear yourself"	19:15
+perlDreamer	but purgeCache clears the wrong stuff	19:16
@snapcount	yeah that's the idea	19:16
@snapcount	you got it	19:16
@snapcount	well, I'm not sure that overrideSave calls purgeCache on the shortcutted asset as well	19:16
+perlDreamer	or rather, it doesn't clear enough	19:16
@snapcount	so that's #2	19:16
+perlDreamer	we can trace whether or not overrideSave calls purgeCache	19:17
@snapcount	indeed	19:17
@snapcount	ok... I'll see how this works	19:17
@snapcount	bbiab	19:17
@rizen	how's it going everybody?	19:18
+perlDreamer	it's good	19:18
@rizen	sweet	19:18
+perlDreamer	Are you out of accounting purgatory yet?	19:18
@rizen	yes, but a whole new kind of hell caught up with me on sunday	19:18
+perlDreamer	you need to get out W2's and 1099's sometime soon	19:19
@rizen	one of my closest friends died unexpectedly	19:19
+perlDreamer	too	19:19
+perlDreamer	oh, no!	19:19
+perlDreamer	dude, I'm sorry	19:19
+perlDreamer	what happened?	19:19
greghacke	If you need anything, I believe we are all here for you.	19:19
@rizen	she went into the hospital for a routine thing, and died due to complications	19:19
@rizen	the shittiest part is that she was only 31	19:20
+perlDreamer	that's young	19:20
greghacke	definately.	19:21
@rizen	and she has a 1 year old daughter	19:21
greghacke	sometimes there is just nothing to say. If you or they need anything, we are your community.	19:22
@rizen	you are my community for something else, this is something i must face alone	19:22
@rizen	anyway...i just stopped by the irc channel to let you guys know i won't be here much this week, if at all	19:23
+perlDreamer	even without this community, you're not alone. You have Sarah.	19:23
+perlDreamer	hang tough, dude, we'll be thinking of you	19:23
@rizen	thanks. have a good week. ttyl	19:24
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@snapcount	well it looks like this patch fixes the problem	19:25
@snapcount	only two lines of code required	19:25
+perlDreamer	snapcount: cool!	19:25
+perlDreamer	want to fix another quick one?	19:25
@snapcount	were you able to duplicate it?	19:25
+perlDreamer	no	19:25
@snapcount	still no?	19:25
+perlDreamer	but this is on Mozilla 1.4 still	19:25
+perlDreamer	I don't trust it for caching stuff	19:26
@snapcount	well this should all be server side cache	19:26
@snapcount	now I'm skeptical of this	19:26
+perlDreamer	Yeah, I followed bopbop's steps exactly and I had no problems with the override taking effect. But this old browser is very suspect.	19:26
+perlDreamer	sometimes it caches when it shouldn't	19:27
@snapcount	so everytime you change the override property for maxthreads, the shortcut immediately shows the correct number with admin off?	19:27
+perlDreamer	with everytime being 1, yes	19:27
@snapcount	you don't have cache disabled in the config file do you?	19:28
+perlDreamer	no, type = fileCache and disableCache=0	19:28
@snapcount	well foo	19:29
@snapcount	can you try it on demo?	19:29
+perlDreamer	I only have 1 browser here at $dayJob	19:29
@snapcount	I want to make sure I'm not fixing something that isn't broken	19:29
+perlDreamer	I'll try to set it up on a demo site.	19:29
@snapcount	so to go a bit off topic	19:30
@snapcount	my first clinical is in 10 days	19:30
@snapcount	to say I'm nervous would the understatement of all time	19:31
+perlDreamer	what is a clinical?	19:31
@snapcount	first time you get to practice on real humans	19:31
greghacke	it's fun!	19:31
@snapcount	to not sugar coat things	19:32
@snapcount	that's essentially what it is	19:32
+perlDreamer	I thought you were studying business?	19:32
@snapcount	that's this fall	19:32
@snapcount	I'm trying to get into a fancy pants private university	19:33
@snapcount	so I decided to do this to better man kind	19:33
greghacke	my orto teaches at OSU Medical. He has me come in and work with students for clinicals - they run the gamut on me and tell me how bad off i am. it's fun!	19:33
@snapcount	save the world!!!!!	19:33
greghacke	where you going?	19:33
greghacke	I did the save the world deal (no cheerleaders though) it can be painful.	19:33
@snapcount	Stetson University is where I'm trying to get in	19:34
@snapcount	I'll be in debt up to my (bleep)	19:34
+perlDreamer	bleep is deep	19:34
@snapcount	about 30K / year	19:34
greghacke	ver' deep.	19:34
@snapcount	only two years left though	19:34
greghacke	looks nice though. i spent a lot on college too.	19:35
+perlDreamer	we need a library of packages for easily debugging wG	19:36
+perlDreamer	I'm starting to get tired of making Yet Another Asset	19:36
@preaction	snapcount: is there any debug code left on gama's server about their listserv bugs (the outlook sending replies as attachments thing?)	19:36
@snapcount	not sure home skillet	19:37
@preaction	i'll insert my own then	19:37
@snapcount	rizen has been running that circus as of late	19:37
greghacke	cicrcus. heheh.	19:37
@snapcount	perlDreamer: when we move to exception handling it will be very easy	19:37
+perlDreamer	yes	19:37
+perlDreamer	that would have caught the template insertion bug I fixed yesterday	19:38
@snapcount	cause we can have different types of exception objects	19:38
@snapcount	so one for debug	19:38
@snapcount	so could you dup on demo? or still no dice	19:39
+perlDreamer	still trying to set it up	19:39
* snapcount learns some patience		19:39
+perlDreamer	it's an old browser running on a 300 MHz UltraSparc behind a 1MHz pipe	19:39
+perlDreamer	It takes 45 seconds to add a Post.	19:40
@snapcount	I must admit that all of the grotesque human disfiguration has evolved from shear terror and nausea to fascination	19:40
greghacke	patience, grasshopper	19:40
@snapcount	but it's all in the book so I'm sure the real deal will start the cycle all over again	19:40
greghacke	"the book"?	19:40
@snapcount	and my clinical dates are on days that the population of the city increases from 60,000 to about 500,000	19:41
@snapcount	so lots of trauma likely	19:41
greghacke	spring break?	19:41
* perlDreamer makes a shortcut		19:41
@snapcount	greghacke: "Emergency: Care and Transportation of the Sick and Injured"	19:41
@snapcount	National Law of the Land for EMTs	19:42
@snapcount	bike week	19:42
@snapcount	race week	19:42
@snapcount	and spring break	19:42
greghacke	Oh, I know it. I played that for a bit but we got to throw out the manual (the army could care less about a number of items in the book)	19:43
@snapcount	our instructors keep telling us	19:43
@snapcount	there's the way you'll be taught and the way you'll do it	19:43
@snapcount	but every job is like that	19:44
@snapcount	there's the book way and the way it's done in the real world	19:44
@snapcount	perlDreamer: sweet	19:44
greghacke	only rule I hever found to stick through is "only point the weapon where you don't mind the bullets going"	19:44
@snapcount	that sounds like a good one	19:44
+perlDreamer	snapcount: here's the site http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1170783047_18/home	19:44
@snapcount	we don't get weapons	19:44
* snapcount puts on a pouty face		19:45
+perlDreamer	standard auth	19:45
@snapcount	how many posts should I see on the home page?	19:45
+perlDreamer	7	19:45
@snapcount	I see four	19:45
greghacke	I see 4.	19:45
@snapcount	is that the shortcut or the real cs?	19:46
greghacke	in FF 2.0.0.1	19:46
+perlDreamer	that's the real one	19:47
+perlDreamer	shortcut is on the getting started page	19:47
@snapcount	negative ghost rider, the pattern is full	19:48
@snapcount	did you commit ze shortcut?	19:48
@preaction	... so Microsoft outlook is sending XML as HTML 4.0 Transitional...	19:51
greghacke	well... that depends on which version of outlook you use.	19:55
@preaction	nevermind, it's using some of those wonderful conditional comments to block the xml from those mail agents that would not understand	19:56
+perlDreamer	snapcount: yes, it's committed	19:57
+perlDreamer	and I see what I may have missed	19:58
+perlDreamer	I turned off admin and saw that the shortcut still showed 4	19:59
+perlDreamer	I didn't go back and check the original	19:59
@snapcount	so you duped it?	19:59
+perlDreamer	yes	19:59
@snapcount	even on dev?	19:59
@snapcount	or just demo	19:59
+perlDreamer	just demo	19:59
+perlDreamer	If you want me to dupe it on dev it will take a while	20:00
@snapcount	it's ok	20:00
@snapcount	I'm committing what I have	20:00
@snapcount	if you can test the fix just for good measure that would be awesome	20:00
@snapcount	but it's not a big deal	20:00
+perlDreamer	I might deploy the asset from the demo and try it later today	20:00
+perlDreamer	is there any chance I can get an updated post.log/colin.log from PB's /tmp directory?	20:01
@snapcount	sure	20:01
@snapcount	how are we sending it to you	20:01
+perlDreamer	via email to my gmail account	20:02
@preaction	greghacke: i'm about to try again on the www_titangames_com extra databases	20:13
greghacke	thanks. i sent you a few copies. not sure which is best.	20:13
@preaction	imma try the small one first	20:13
greghacke	good idea ;)	20:13
greghacke	went crawling through for data	20:15
greghacke	integrity issues	20:15
@preaction	the mysqldump headers are missing, but i wouldn't think that would cause a problem	20:16
@preaction	let me givver a go first, then if it fails we can decide how to proceed	20:16
greghacke	excellent. thank you.	20:17
@preaction	greghacke: yeah, i'm going to need the dumps with the full mysqldump headers	20:21
@snapcount	the problem yesterday was that the file abrubtly ended	20:21
@snapcount	in the middle of an insert statement	20:21
@snapcount	fyi	20:21
greghacke	ok. passing them to doug@... now	20:21
@preaction	wait	20:21
@preaction	let me try one more thing	20:21
@preaction	got it	20:23
@preaction	it's all there	20:23
greghacke	I guess that does it. now to bust through and get my code in place. thank you muchly	20:25
greghacke	now to get SQLForm to run against it.	20:31
greghacke	if you get a chance, can you pop through and see if I am getting an error somewhere. if I attempt to create an sqlform on the tgproducts table fails.	20:34
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+perlDreamer	has anyone tried out a redirect asset recently?	20:36
@preaction	yes	20:37
@preaction	doesn't work like it used to, because how it used to work was apparently a bug	20:37
+perlDreamer	so how is it supposed to work now?	20:37
@preaction	if you go directly to that URL, it redirects you to another URL	20:38
+perlDreamer	if you view it on a page, it doesn't	20:38
+perlDreamer	hm	20:38
@preaction	that's not directly that URL	20:38
+perlDreamer	right	20:38
@snapcount	that's retarded	20:38
@preaction	iirc, it was causing more problems the way it was	20:38
@snapcount	imo	20:38
+perlDreamer	I gotta go with the Floridian on this one	20:39
@preaction	people would add multiple redirects to a single page, then what?	20:39
+perlDreamer	first one wins?	20:39
+perlDreamer	last one wins?	20:39
@snapcount	js message: "You're retarded"	20:39
@preaction	a redirect should have no physical presence, and should only affect the URLs it's configured to affect	20:39
@snapcount	actually a real solution would be to have it check for the existance of a redirect when it's added	20:40
+perlDreamer	if scalar $self->getParent->getChildren(["children"],{getOnlyRedirects}) > 1 then croak "Only 1 per page, please".	20:40
+perlDreamer	now that was scary	20:40
@snapcount	yeah	20:40
@snapcount	kind of like how sqlform does	20:40
@snapcount	the real use to a redirect in wG was you could have /home, work on it as admin but redirect everyone else	20:41
@preaction	uh... so version tags don't fix that?	20:42
+perlDreamer	they do now	20:42
@snapcount	yeah they do	20:42
@snapcount	I'll think of another reason hold on	20:42
+perlDreamer	Everyone was told that you couldn't have bare assets as pages anymore	20:43
+perlDreamer	Layouts are recommended everywhere	20:43
+perlDreamer	but that breaks the redirect asset	20:43
@snapcount	you could redirect based on a group	20:43
+perlDreamer	might as well remove it from the system.	20:43
@snapcount	if who can view is "farkers" then farkers goto /home/farkers instead of /home	20:43
@snapcount	but everyone else sees home	20:43
+perlDreamer	that sounds like the WebGUI chains thing	20:44
@snapcount	but you could do that with a redirect before	20:44
@snapcount	now you would get perms error	20:44
@snapcount	but the #1 reason is b/c that's the way it used to work and change is bad and everything should always be the same always just because	20:45
@snapcount	.com	20:45
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@preaction	snapcount: that webstats4.plainblack.net/?config=www.cascadesystems.net issue remains after rebuilding the stats... i don't have a damned clue	20:46
@preaction	the only thing i can see is to generate the stats for this site as a cronjob	20:46
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@snapcount	ahh grasshopper	20:49
@snapcount	still fixing the symptom	20:49
@snapcount	it may be a good stop gap	20:49
@snapcount	but we need to know why it's happening and hopefully someday a fix	20:50
@preaction	i still remain a "cure the symptom cure the disease" type of person	20:50
@snapcount	what if it suddenly happens to everyone?	20:50
@preaction	then we're fucked	20:50
@snapcount	exactly	20:50
@snapcount	find the root cause is my advice	20:50
@preaction	so we run the cronjob for everyone	20:50
@snapcount	do with it as you will	20:50
@snapcount	=)	20:50
@snapcount	you're fun to work with	20:51
@snapcount	I worked with guys like you in engineering too	20:51
@preaction	i'm worried about where you're going with this :p	20:51
@snapcount	stuff would burn up and they would change to ceramic resistors	20:51
@snapcount	it was great fun	20:51
@snapcount	"oh... throw a 20W wire wound on there..."	20:51
@preaction	i'm very action-oriented, trial-and-error	20:52
@snapcount	good times	20:52
@preaction	this works? use it!	20:52
+perlDreamer	snapcount: never exceed the wattage rating on carbon resistors to let "the magic out"	20:52
@preaction	doesn't work now? throw it out!	20:52
@snapcount	of course, the resistors stopped incenerating	20:52
@snapcount	and instead the traces seperated from the PWB	20:52
+perlDreamer	now that's funny	20:52
@snapcount	I thought so	20:52
@preaction	for those who know what the hell you're talking about	20:53
@preaction	jargon	20:53
@snapcount	If only you could "let the smoke out" of software some how	20:53
@preaction	dude, do not open awstats.pl, trust me	20:53
+perlDreamer	he's saying that masking symptoms only allows bad design to continue	20:53
@preaction	you will need eye bleach	20:53
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@snapcount	yeah I looked	20:53
@snapcount	it's a rats nest	20:53
+perlDreamer	kind of like why we need to start using PBWG about 1.5 years ago	20:53
@snapcount	more like 10 years ago	20:54
@preaction	we can't fix the core of awstats :p	20:54
@snapcount	when it was but a twinkle in JTs eye	20:54
+perlDreamer	perltidy?	20:54
@preaction	could try... i swear it'll vomit on it	20:54
@snapcount	vomit is cool	20:54
+perlDreamer	actually, vomit is about 95 degrees F	20:54
+perlDreamer	that's quite warm	20:55
+perlDreamer	back to EMS school, dude	20:55
+perlDreamer	either that, or hold a 1 year old for long enough	20:55
+perlDreamer	:)	20:55
@snapcount	heh	20:56
@snapcount	the coolest part is learning to not be distracted	20:56
@snapcount	they get all dressed up with makeup	20:56
@snapcount	have an axe in the forehead	20:56
+perlDreamer	that will make your mascara run	20:57
@snapcount	we show up and do an assessment and we have to ignore the axe	20:57
@snapcount	there are more things that are of higher importance	20:57
@snapcount	that's hard to do	20:57
+perlDreamer	like people who are still living?	20:57
@snapcount	or a compound femur fracture	20:57
@snapcount	yeah it's all makeup and silicon	20:58
@snapcount	or latex even	20:58
@snapcount	sheesh	20:58
@snapcount	fake blood	20:58
@snapcount	and they moan and scream	20:58
@snapcount	pretty good at acting really	20:58
@snapcount	all you can think about is "Good God, his femur is poking out"	20:59
@snapcount	and then they fail you because the person is breathing 6 times a minute and going into shock	20:59
@snapcount	while you bust out the traction splint	20:59
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@snapcount	anyways	21:00
@snapcount	next bug for me	21:00
@snapcount	=)	21:00
+perlDreamer	try to tackle the statistics/proxy one	21:01
+perlDreamer	it stumped me	21:01
@snapcount	does an icalendar feed generate an ics file?	21:04
ckotil	yes	21:04
@snapcount	ok cool	21:04
@snapcount	found one to test with me thinks	21:04
ckotil	http://maintcal.grnoc.iu.edu/cals/igig_sched.ics	21:04
ckotil	http://indiana.gigapop.net/ingigapop/support/maintenance-calendar/maintenance-calendars.html	21:05
ckotil	more to test if you want	21:05
+perlDreamer	ckotil: know any good SOAP servers?	21:05
ckotil	i do not. i can ask around my group tho.	21:05
+perlDreamer	thanks	21:06
ckotil	soap::lite	21:06
+perlDreamer	uh, I mean a public SOAP server that I could test the WSClient against	21:07
ckotil	yeah, we have one.	21:09
ckotil	im getting the url now.	21:09
ckotil	http://noc.net.internet2.edu/i2network/network-status/visible-network/visible-network-toolset.html is the data	21:09
ckotil	link http://vn.grnoc.iu.edu/Abilene/raw-data.html	21:09
+perlDreamer	thanks!	21:10
ckotil	np	21:11
@preaction	snapcount: i'm getting somewhere on this verdamnt thing!	21:12
@snapcount	eh?	21:12
+perlDreamer	++preaction	21:13
+perlDreamer	preaction has grokked awstats.pl	21:13
@preaction	it works without the frameset, the main page	21:14
@preaction	http://webstats4.plainblack.net/?config=www.cascadesystems.net&framename=mainright <- works fine	21:14
@snapcount	nice	21:15
@snapcount	I found the problem with calendar feeds	21:15
@snapcount	Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Workflow::www_runWorkflow. Root cause: Undefined subroutine &WebGUI::DateTime called at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/CalendarUpdateFeeds.pm line 215.	21:16
@snapcount	that's part of it anyway I'm guessing	21:16
@snapcount	oh yeah	21:17
@snapcount	that would definitely cause a problem	21:18
@preaction	i must not've updated SVN, and I can't right now because i'm fixing another (unreported) part of the calendar	21:18
* perlDreamer goes afk for a while		21:20
@snapcount	and yahtzee	21:21
@snapcount	I see we're doing some work tomorrow	21:22
@snapcount	the 7th on the GIGAPOP	21:22
@snapcount	one problem with this though preaction	21:22
ckotil	yup	21:22
@snapcount	if the calendar is uncommitted	21:23
@snapcount	this will blow up	21:23
@snapcount	because the calendar object fails to instanciate	21:23
@preaction	the workflow should check for that then	21:23
@snapcount	line 304	21:23
@snapcount	I'll add an error message	21:24
@preaction	... it works every time as long as i have apache use the DirectoryIndex instead of explicitly specifying "awstats.pl"	21:27
* snapcount is in SQL hell again		22:07
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@khenn	afternoon	22:47
+perlDreamer	howdy	22:47
@khenn	Colin, can you pop into IM for a bit?	22:47
+perlDreamer	sure	22:49
@khenn	grassy ass	22:50
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+perlDreamer	snapcount: you still in the netherworld of SQL?	23:28
@snapcount	no I fixed it	23:30
+perlDreamer	cool	23:30
+perlDreamer	we need exceptions	23:30
@snapcount	it was the matrix bug	23:30
@snapcount	huh?	23:31
@snapcount	who is we and what do they need?	23:31
+perlDreamer	we need to be able to throw and catch exceptions in wG.	23:31
@snapcount	sure	23:31
+perlDreamer	I'm thinking of the SQL Form edit bug	23:31
@snapcount	oh yeah	23:31
@snapcount	I have a temporary solution if you want to put it in while I'm at class	23:32
@snapcount	so simple it's genius	23:32
+perlDreamer	sure	23:32
+perlDreamer	what is it?	23:32
@snapcount	add a param to DatabaseLink->getList	23:32
@snapcount	that only returns valid connections	23:32
+perlDreamer	is there a valid connection checker in there somewhere?	23:32
@snapcount	then in that method, make the connection to each one and test for undef	23:32
@snapcount	no	23:32
@snapcount	just do WebGUI::DatabaseLink->new($session, $id);	23:33
@snapcount	it will return undef if it's not	23:33
@snapcount	following so far?	23:33
+perlDreamer	yes and no	23:33
+perlDreamer	getList does not return objects	23:33
@snapcount	yep	23:33
@snapcount	so if it's not defined	23:34
@snapcount	delete $list->{$id};	23:34
+MrHairgrease	roy	23:34
+MrHairgrease	that prolly won't work	23:34
+MrHairgrease	b/c wg::bdl->new	23:34
+MrHairgrease	will throw a fatal	23:34
+MrHairgrease	if i'm correct	23:34
@snapcount	it throws a warn	23:35
@snapcount	and returns undef	23:35
@snapcount	at least in HEAD it does	23:35
+MrHairgrease	ok	23:35
@snapcount	perlDreamer: so, in SQLForm when he builds the list	23:36
@snapcount	pass the new param	23:36
@snapcount	and his error handling will work as it does now	23:36
+MrHairgrease	i thoiught i wdidn't work b/c WebGUI::SQL->connect($self->session,$dsn,$username,$identifier); throws fatal	23:36
@snapcount	so WebGUI::DatabaseLink->getList($session,{onlyValidConnections=>1});	23:36
+perlDreamer	MyHairGrease: DatabaseLink wraps that inside an eval to catch that very problem.	23:37
@snapcount	crap	23:37
@snapcount	yeah but I don't think it works	23:38
@snapcount	and it's not DatabaseLink->new, it's WebGUI::SQL->connect we have to use to test the connection	23:38
@snapcount	for now we need to fix the way I originally suggested	23:38
@snapcount	until we have exception handling	23:39
+MrHairgrease	see...	23:39
@snapcount	change WebGUI::SQL->connect to not throw a fatal	23:39
+MrHairgrease	the prblem is that the fatal gets thrown by connect	23:39
@snapcount	and change WebGUI::Session->db to throw a fatal if SQL->connect returns undef for connectionId 0	23:41
@snapcount	that way we can trap errors like we talked about	23:41
@snapcount	and we'll still have a fatal if the webgui database is borked	23:42
@snapcount	or the connection to it	23:42
@snapcount	clear as mud?	23:42
@snapcount	echo	23:43
@snapcount	ping pong	23:43
+perlDreamer	yes?	23:43
* snapcount makes the funny noises a modem makes		23:43
@snapcount	heheh	23:43
@snapcount	yes is a question?	23:43
+perlDreamer	wasn't sure if you were talking to me or to MrHG	23:44
@snapcount	oh	23:44
@snapcount	this is for you	23:44
+perlDreamer	okay, I'll try to wrap up with Frank, then go back and read what you wrote.	23:44
@snapcount	ok	23:44
@snapcount	I'll restate everything so it makes more sense	23:44
@snapcount	in order	23:44
@snapcount	=)	23:44
@snapcount	change WebGUI::Session->db to throw a fatal if WebGUI::SQL->connect returns undef	23:45
@snapcount	b/c that method gets the default db connection and should throw a fatal if it doesn't work	23:46
@snapcount	change WebGUI::SQL->connect to not throw a fatal like it does now... it should be a warning	23:46
@snapcount	now, we can add the parameter to WebGUI::DatabaseLink to validate the connections	23:47
@snapcount	and add the code to do so	23:47
@snapcount	i.e. delete $list->{$id} unless WebGUI::SQL->connect(...);	23:48
+perlDreamer	okay	23:48
+perlDreamer	any side effects to the SQL change?	23:48
@snapcount	I don't see any	23:48
@snapcount	we still get fatals for the webgui db	23:48
@snapcount	and we can trap errors if other db links are fooked	23:48
+perlDreamer	in order to test this, I need to create a DatabaseLink with bad DSN and make sure it dies well?	23:49
@snapcount	lastly, the sql form edit method calls DatabaseLink->getList so change it to pass in your new param	23:49
@snapcount	yeah	23:49
@snapcount	just create one with some properties	23:50
@snapcount	and no db	23:50
@snapcount	or for an exisiting db with wrong credentials	23:50
@snapcount	then you can fix it quick to test it when all is correct	23:50
+perlDreamer	so this fix will prevent the DatabaseLink from being listed in the drop down, but will not prevent someone from breaking a DatabaseLink that used to work fine.	23:51
@snapcount	true	23:52
@snapcount	but it doesn't do that now either	23:52
@snapcount	unless you count the fatal thrown when something tries to use it as preventing it	23:52
@snapcount	we could easily do an RFE for the DBList form control that shows a status after you add this little nugget as well	23:52
@snapcount	or the operation rather	23:53
+perlDreamer	yeah, the operation would be better	23:53
* perlDreamer hums the Salvation through exception song		23:53
@snapcount	to do that though would require to test the connections in the operation	23:54
@snapcount	which is code duplication	23:54
@snapcount	eek	23:54
+perlDreamer	yeah	23:54
@snapcount	well, you understand where I'm going with it all	23:54
@snapcount	perhaps you can implement it cleaner	23:54
+perlDreamer	getValidListOfObjects is our end goal, but we need to have a bugfix for now	23:54
@snapcount	I think we will see some exception handling soon... maybe even 7.4	23:55
@snapcount	once it's in place globally and we have the objects, etc	23:55
@snapcount	this will all be redone anyway	23:55
@snapcount	oh	23:56
@snapcount	the other thing too	23:56
@snapcount	if the handle returned by SQL is undef when something is borked	23:58
@snapcount	since the fatal is gone	23:58
@snapcount	you can test for that in the place where the sql form tries to use the connection as well	23:58
@snapcount	which will handle the case of someone breaking the link after the fact	23:59
@snapcount	thought of a problem with this	23:59
@snapcount	poop	23:59
--- Day changed Wed Feb 07 2007
@snapcount	all of the code that uses the connections expects that their is always a valid object	00:00
@snapcount	none of them test it	00:00
@snapcount	sigh*	00:01
@snapcount	I'm thinking maybe this is not a good idea	00:01
@snapcount	we should just wait and fix this when we have exception handling	00:02
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+perlDreamer	i agree	00:15
+perlDreamer	poop	00:15
+perlDreamer	sigh	00:15
+perlDreamer	wait	00:15
+perlDreamer	ckotil: Is there a SOAP method call for that particular service?	00:39
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+perlDreamer	preaction: I'd like to close your i18n bug	01:39
+perlDreamer	The Calendar itself is pretty well i18n'ed	01:39
@preaction	about the Calendar?	01:39
@preaction	i think he might've meant the Events	01:39
+perlDreamer	And rizen has said that template i18n will be held off for a separate project on 7.4	01:39
+perlDreamer	if he meant Events, he can refile it	01:40
@preaction	that and the stuff in Events that isn't i18n is in a template	01:40
@preaction	if he would have been specific....	01:40
@preaction	oh wait, maybe the Feeds stuff isn't i18n	01:40
@preaction	in fact, i'm pretty sure it's not	01:40
@preaction	all that raw javascript... shudder	01:40
+perlDreamer	that needs to be a Snippet or call to extras	01:41
@preaction	i know	01:41
@preaction	i've been trying to make it more generic that the routines can be useful elsewhere	01:41
+perlDreamer	I only see 1 or 2 strings that could be i18n'ed	01:42
+perlDreamer	and by default, none of them are in the other templates	01:42
+perlDreamer	that use javascript	01:42
@preaction	just the admin console	01:42
+perlDreamer	PM	01:42
+perlDreamer	EMS	01:42
+perlDreamer	Dashboard	01:42
+perlDreamer	Shortcut	01:42
@preaction	i guess i'm not understanding	01:43
@preaction	none of them are) (in the other templates)?	01:43
+perlDreamer	most of the other parts of wG that use javascript do not have i18n labels in the javascript	01:43
@preaction	ahh	01:43
@preaction	stupid prepositional phrases	01:43
+perlDreamer	$perlDreamer->eod && $tired	01:44
@preaction	if he were more specific, we could track down where there isn't i18n	01:44
+perlDreamer	it's pretty easy to find where there isn't i18n.	01:45
@preaction	and i think i'm doing locale wrong, i think the user profile or the language has a locale field, when it's in the i18n file	01:45
@preaction	i defer to your knowledge then	01:45
@preaction	since i seriously don't know sometimes what should or shouldn't be i18n	01:45
+perlDreamer	ideally, any user displayed string would be i18n'ed	01:45
+perlDreamer	anything going to the logfile is always in english	01:45
+perlDreamer	two weeks ago, I started i18n'ing the templates exhaustively. JT asked me to stop and work on bugs	01:46
+perlDreamer	and because he has a new idea for i18n'ing templates in 7.4	01:46
+perlDreamer	so if we can cover the code well, then the templates will be fixed in 7.4.0	01:46
@preaction	sounds good	01:47
+perlDreamer	his new solution for i18n labels is like 15% faster than what we're doing now	01:47
@preaction	sweet	01:47
+perlDreamer	did you ever arrive at a solution that you liked for Event/Calendar help?	01:48
+perlDreamer	because I'm stumped on bugs, I'm not supposed to i18n templates and I have no work for $dayJob	01:48
@preaction	sorta/kinda, it works but i don't know how to make it do what i want	01:49
@preaction	like just make an article for "How to do feeds"	01:49
@preaction	let me SVN what i have	01:49
+perlDreamer	okay	01:49
@preaction	committed	01:51
+perlDreamer	to just make an article, just create an entry with body and title tags.	01:53
+perlDreamer	then make i18n entries for each one	01:54
@preaction	ok	01:56
+perlDreamer	for an example, look in Help/WebGUI.pm for the glossary or 'webgui tips' entries	01:56
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PedersenMJ	good evening.	04:48
Radix-wrk	afternoon	04:59
Radix-wrk	only just mind you.. 12.01pm ;)	04:59
Radix-wrk	How goes the theme creation?	04:59
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PedersenMJ	Sorry for idle, in other windows. Haven't done anything since Friday. Been working (before that) on my submission for the current contest, and will (possibly) get back to that tonight after I finish up some work on my Jabber server.	05:53
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xdanger	preaction: yo, is there a way to send email from dataform in plaintext still?	11:11
xdanger	I upgraded and clients aren't happu	11:11
xdanger	haapy	11:11
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nisha	hi all	13:39
nisha	anybody home!	13:39
nisha	was wondering if nyone can share someinsight about google sitemaps	13:39
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nisha	#webmaster	13:48
Radix__	hello	14:18
Radix__	I might be able to help out with Google sitemaps.. I wrote the how to for it afterall:)	14:19
Radix__	Anyways.. ask your question, I'll reply when I get back.. off to watch some tv :)	14:32
nisha	i wanted to know how google crawl data for site	14:42
nisha	and does he really crawl for deep web	14:42
nisha	i have a site where many of the links are not direct but they are through javascript function call	14:43
nisha	does google will help me crawling data and can i use google for my site (for search purpose)	14:44
Radix__	that's what the sitemap is for - you tell google what pages you have, and when they were last updated	14:45
nisha	i tried crawling my web site on google sitemap	14:46
nisha	but its not crawling the pages which are not directly links from any where but linked through javascript functions	14:47
nisha	i mean i tried creating a sitemap.xml file	14:48
Radix__	are you using webgui?	14:49
nisha	google sitemap tool	14:49
nisha	http://www.xml-sitemaps.com/	14:49
nisha	this is site from where i have created that xml	14:49
Radix__	You're not actually using webgui tho are you?	14:50
nisha	if u know from where i am suppose to create the xml or	14:50
nisha	can u please help me out	14:50
nisha	i am new to this	14:50
nisha	please let me know what all i need to do	14:50
nisha	may be u can guide for this, if u have time	14:51
Radix__	I used webgui to build my sitemap file	14:52
nisha	can u tell me the site address for webui	14:52
nisha	and after creating sitemap (file), what i need to do ?	14:52
Radix__	you need to register it with google	14:53
Radix__	ie. signup to google sitemaps and register your site	14:53
Radix__	and www.webgui.org	14:53
Radix__	https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/docs/en/about.html	14:54
Radix__	that's what I used to generate the final sitemap file, though I used webgui (and the information in my How To) to generate the initial sitemap.xml file	14:54
Radix__	I can only presume you googled google sitemap and got my howto on the wiki to get here :)	14:55
nisha	thanks for the site names	14:55
nisha	but i have tried this	14:56
nisha	some how this is enable to crawl my site	14:56
nisha	showing me 404 error, while i can access it from my browser	14:56
nisha	u there?	15:02
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nisha	hey ny body there?	15:14
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nishak	hi	15:20
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greghacke	preaction: tables appear to have posted but it appears that I cannot access the tgproducts through sqlform (sql reports work fine) the only difference between the two is the declaration of a key. If you get a chance, can you remove the key from the column productId (it lists as MUL but there is only one)	16:50
greghacke	actually, when I tried to use SQLForm, it appears to have broken my tginventory table.	16:52
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@snapcount	eh	18:17
greghacke	sounds like a good day	18:18
ckotil	so far so good.	18:19
ckotil	we got some snow yesterday and i was fortunate enough to find a huge parkinglot at a mega church to donuts and drift in my wrx.	18:21
ckotil	it was the most fun ive had in a while.	18:21
greghacke	I drove from southwest michigan to central ohio - a 4 hour drive - that took 12 hours.	18:22
ckotil	ouch.	18:22
ckotil	yeah, my mom said it took her 5 hours to get home from work. normally a 30 minute drive from cincinnati just into Indiana.	18:22
greghacke	yep. is terrible out still.	18:22
ckotil	i made it home in 10 minutes, normally takes 5 minutes. ;] i took side roads home.	18:23
ckotil	all wheel drive is a godsend	18:23
greghacke	definately.	18:23
greghacke	i was fine on the drive until 2 miles out - then the slip had me all over the road.	18:23
ckotil	how come all my version tags GROUP TO USE default to turn admin mode on ?	18:46
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+perlDreamer	talk to me, snapcount	19:37
@snapcount	all hail the mooninites!	19:40
+perlDreamer	how did I break wG this week?	19:40
@snapcount	I'm not sure it's you now actually	19:40
+perlDreamer	w00t!	19:40
@snapcount	right now this only happens when you upgrade plainblack.com	19:40
+perlDreamer	what are the symptoms?	19:41
@snapcount	I tried it on a copy of another thread heavy site and no problem	19:41
@snapcount	empty uncommitted version tags	19:41
+perlDreamer	hm	19:41
@snapcount	and as an aside, it takes a really long time	19:41
+perlDreamer	it should	19:41
@snapcount	that thread recalculation on pb.com took over an hour	19:41
+perlDreamer	it had to reindex every thread and every post	19:41
@snapcount	nice!	19:41
+perlDreamer	I asked rizen about it, and he said to go ahead and do it	19:42
@snapcount	ok	19:42
@snapcount	in the future note stuff like that in gotchas	19:42
@snapcount	I already added it for this time	19:42
@snapcount	otherwise people will think the world is ending	19:42
+perlDreamer	okay	19:42
@snapcount	so I've looked at your code	19:43
@snapcount	and it looks fine	19:43
+perlDreamer	do you want another pair of eyes?	19:43
@snapcount	no diff in how you call those methods as compared to the CS	19:43
+perlDreamer	and it should be using update, so no calls to the auto commit workflows	19:43
@snapcount	only thing I could think of is that maybe the archived posts are screwing it up b/c you can't rate those from the UI afaik	19:44
@snapcount	but yeah	19:44
@snapcount	update is right	19:44
@snapcount	it's under a tag and committed	19:44
@snapcount	by the upgrade script	19:44
@snapcount	So I don't know what the deal is	19:44
+perlDreamer	how many tags are created?	19:45
+perlDreamer	dude	19:45
@snapcount	dude?	19:45
+perlDreamer	empty, committed version tags?	19:45
@snapcount	uncommitted	19:45
+perlDreamer	well..., let me ask you this	19:46
@snapcount	the answer is badger	19:46
greghacke	42!	19:46
+perlDreamer	the update script checks out a version tag	19:46
+perlDreamer	and then commits it at the end	19:46
+perlDreamer	what if no work is done and it tries to call commit?	19:47
+perlDreamer	that definitely explains empty	19:47
+perlDreamer	but not uncommitted	19:47
+perlDreamer	how many tags are we talking about?	19:47
@snapcount	well that would explain it if the upgrade were run 42 times	19:47
@snapcount	one tag and commit per upgrade	19:47
+perlDreamer	42 sites per install?	19:48
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wgGuest42	hi	20:00
+perlDreamer	howdy	20:01
wgGuest42	I just saw that wG 7.3.9 is there!	20:01
+perlDreamer	almost	20:01
wgGuest42	you're taking online the release notes?	20:01
+perlDreamer	they will be posted online for the final release	20:02
+perlDreamer	people are checking that the upgrade goes smoothly before the final release	20:02
+perlDreamer	but the goal is to get it out today	20:02
wgGuest42	So next week for 7.4?	20:02
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure about that.	20:02
+perlDreamer	7.4 is supposed to be held off until the bug list is completely clear	20:03
wgGuest42	sounds good	20:03
+perlDreamer	are you anxious for the release?	20:03
+perlDreamer	there are over 50 bugs fixed in this one	20:03
wgGuest42	yeah I noticed from the bugs list that's why I wanted to upgrade asap	20:04
wgGuest42	but maybe I'll wait to be sure the upgrade is safe	20:04
+perlDreamer	if you're really, really curious about the release notes, you can get them from SVN	20:04
wgGuest42	true	20:05
+perlDreamer	here: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/view/WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt	20:07
wgGuest42	yep reading it	20:07
wgGuest42	there's a duplicate entry	20:08
+perlDreamer	it was fixed twice	20:08
wgGuest42	fix: Calendar feeds do not work	20:08
+perlDreamer	yeah, that actually might have been fixed twice	20:08
+perlDreamer	just kidding, preaction	20:08
@preaction	probably three or four times	20:11
@preaction	and it wasn't my fault!	20:11
+perlDreamer	you can't channel Jake Blues unless you're in Chicago	20:11
@snapcount	this vm with 512MB of ram is not taking kindly to the import of the plainblack database	20:16
@snapcount	actually it's funny you mention that dup	20:16
@snapcount	b/c it was fixed twice	20:17
@snapcount	it just didn't work the first time	20:17
@snapcount	lol	20:17
@snapcount	I crack myself up.... sigh*	20:17
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@snapcount	sheesh... it wasn't that un-funny	20:24
+perlDreamer	no, he got what he was looking for	20:24
+perlDreamer	release notes	20:24
+perlDreamer	and to find out if 7.4 will be released next week	20:24
+perlDreamer	which it won't	20:24
@snapcount	yeah... seeing as how we havent even begun development yet	20:24
+perlDreamer	and the buglist	20:24
@snapcount	true true	20:25
@snapcount	so I have to reboot the vm	20:25
@snapcount	it died	20:25
+perlDreamer	okay	20:25
+perlDreamer	I'll kill my ssh session on this end	20:25
@snapcount	I'm going to give it more memory	20:25
@snapcount	and check diskspace	20:25
@snapcount	yep	20:29
@snapcount	vm won't even boot	20:29
@snapcount	ran out of diskspace	20:29
@snapcount	crikey!	20:29
+perlDreamer	probably filled up a logfile	20:29
@snapcount	good thing parallels has a tool for resizing the partition	20:29
+perlDreamer	big partitions	20:29
@snapcount	It was only 8000 MB	20:29
@snapcount	so I bumped it to 20 GB	20:30
+perlDreamer	lots of memory, too	20:30
+perlDreamer	oh	20:30
* snapcount shakes his money maker		20:30
+perlDreamer	swap space	20:30
+perlDreamer	it probably filled up the swap, then the whole partition	20:30
@snapcount	I upped the memory to 1 GB too	20:30
@snapcount	man what happened to crythias	20:31
@snapcount	he's rarely seen anymore	20:31
@snapcount	and when he is here very quiet	20:31
+perlDreamer	I don't know	20:32
@snapcount	not as into it all as he used to be	20:32
@snapcount	seems anyway	20:32
+perlDreamer	pretty quiet on the boards, too	20:32
ckotil	ya	20:32
@snapcount	I hope he's not burnt out	20:32
@snapcount	he's awesome for the community	20:32
ckotil	when i first started to use webgui, crythias was all over every question i had	20:32
@snapcount	he ran his own FAQ too I think	20:33
@snapcount	he did a lot	20:33
+perlDreamer	he's on AOL	20:33
@snapcount	s/a lot/alot/g	20:33
+perlDreamer	AIM, I mean if you want to ask him	20:33
@snapcount	I don't want to put him on the spot	20:34
+perlDreamer	with you asking, and asking nicely, it wouldn't be	20:34
+perlDreamer	just say that you miss him	20:34
+perlDreamer	which is true	20:34
@snapcount	where the hell have you been mister!	20:34
+perlDreamer	either that, or see if he wants to go out to coffee.	20:34
@snapcount	something like that?	20:34
+perlDreamer	Don't both of you live in Florida?	20:35
@snapcount	I think he lives over in Tampa	20:35
@snapcount	not very close to me	20:35
@snapcount	about 3 hours drive	20:35
@snapcount	and I seem to recall him talking about moving	20:35
@snapcount	not sure if he did though	20:36
@snapcount	I'd say we're about 40% through the resize	20:39
@snapcount	HDD is thrashing	20:39
@snapcount	palms are getting sweaty b/c the mbp is heating up quite nicely	20:39
+perlDreamer	you see the Slashdot article on 17" dells having a 20-65V DC bias?	20:41
@snapcount	no	20:41
@snapcount	link?	20:41
+perlDreamer	http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/02/07/1523249.shtml	20:41
@snapcount	"Here hold this"	20:43
@snapcount	ZAPPP~!!!	20:43
+perlDreamer	_my_ laptop has that problem	20:43
+perlDreamer	I was blowing it off	20:43
@snapcount	don't use it in the garden barefoot after the sprinklers run	20:43
@snapcount	or at the beach with your feet in the water	20:43
@snapcount	get in on the class action suit while you can perlDreamer	20:44
@snapcount	!!!	20:44
+perlDreamer	I've had severe physical and emotional trauma	20:44
+perlDreamer	I'm afraid to use it.	20:44
@snapcount	it makes you wonder how they made it pass UL	20:44
+perlDreamer	Even the keyboard tray is hot	20:44
@snapcount	its funny but honestly that could be fatal	20:45
@snapcount	the voltages they describe	20:45
@snapcount	especially from one are to the other	20:45
@snapcount	(across the heart)	20:45
ckotil	i bought a dell 4 years ago. inspiron 5100. its lasted this long, but i will never buy a dell again	20:45
@snapcount	s/are/arm/	20:45
+perlDreamer	I've loved the last two Dells that I bought	20:46
+perlDreamer	ckotil: what would you get instead?	20:46
@snapcount	okay the VM is back	20:46
ckotil	hp/ibm(lenova)/macbook pro	20:46
@snapcount	and it's quite zippy now	20:46
+perlDreamer	do they run linux well?	20:46
@snapcount	running fsck though due to the hard power down	20:47
ckotil	not sure. id expect them too	20:47
ckotil	and with a bit of tweaking im sure they would	20:47
@snapcount	bow wow wow whaa	20:47
@snapcount	purple haze off in my brain......	20:48
@snapcount	so I hear the creators of Gutiar Hero are making a game that will actually teach you to play a real guitar	20:49
ckotil	thats awsome	20:49
@snapcount	yeah... if it's anything like GHII it will be awesome	20:50
@snapcount	ah crap	20:51
ckotil	http://www.funpic.hu/files/pics/00031/00031437.jpg	20:51
@snapcount	this magic utility didn't resize my linux partitions	20:51
@snapcount	crappity poo poo	20:51
@snapcount	now I've got to finagle it	20:51
@snapcount	let me guess ckotil	20:52
@snapcount	milk man?	20:52
ckotil	looks like a double trailor semi	20:52
@snapcount	yeah one of those milk trucks	20:53
@snapcount	maybe it's gas	20:53
@snapcount	but definitely a liquid of some sort	20:53
ckotil	ya	20:54
@snapcount	in any case, that would definitely ruin your day	20:54
@snapcount	you're in the shower and a friggin semi drives past you through your house	20:54
ckotil	id flip	20:54
@snapcount	I'd prolly do a couple other things first =P	20:54
@snapcount	heheh	20:54
ckotil	like shit.	20:55
+perlDreamer	SPAD	20:56
@snapcount	this one was awesome	20:56
@snapcount	prolly seen it though	20:56
@snapcount	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMH0bHeiRNg	20:56
@snapcount	sfw	20:56
ckotil	yah. white dood can dance	20:59
@snapcount	some of it is hillarious	21:00
@snapcount	his MC Hammer is pretty good	21:00
@snapcount	then the old time favs... lawnmower, sprinkler, canopener, shopping cart	21:01
@snapcount	the best has to be the cotton eye'd joe dance	21:01
@snapcount	stupid vm hurry up go!!!!!!!	21:03
* perlDreamer suggests that this might be justification for a better box		21:08
@snapcount	my mbp can hold another GB of RAM apparently	21:14
@snapcount	one 2GB and one 1GB stick	21:14
@snapcount	right now I have 2 total	21:14
+perlDreamer	Mars needs more women	21:15
+perlDreamer	Snapcount needs more RAM	21:15
@snapcount	you can never have enough RAM	21:15
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@khenn	afternoon	21:17
@snapcount	hola	21:19
+perlDreamer	khenn, you going to be around later this afternoon?	21:21
@khenn	yeah	21:23
@khenn	I have to go pick up my boy from school @ 3pm CST	21:23
@khenn	but I'll be back around 3:30ish	21:24
+perlDreamer	okay	21:24
@preaction	is there something in Perl that flattens undef elements out of a hash reference?	22:50
@preaction	whenever i make a hash reference using a value from an object method that could return undef, if it returns undef it acts like the value isn't even there, and instead shows the next key name as the value	22:51
@preaction	so { a => $b->param("maybeUndef"), c => "d" }, shows "c" for the value of "a" if $b->param() returns undef	22:52
@preaction	only fix i've found is to put $b->param("maybeUndef") \|\| ""	22:52
@snapcount	what happens to "d"?	23:06
@snapcount	surprising that it doesn't cause a runtime error	23:09
@preaction	surprising indeed	23:14
@preaction	figured it out	23:16
@preaction	the $b->param isn't returning undef, it's returning an empty list	23:16
@preaction	so {a => (), c => "d"}, and that is expected behavior, since the list gets flattened	23:16
@preaction	so i have to force scalar context	23:17
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+perlDreamer	snapcount does jumping jacks	23:39
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+perlDreamer	he's back!	23:39
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--- Day changed Thu Feb 08 2007
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+perlDreamer	what's up with IRC today?	00:02
@khenn	dunno	00:18
@khenn	I've been connected the whole day	00:18
+perlDreamer	maybe it's me. Everyone seems to be bouncing in and out.	00:18
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@preaction	are you or are you not the black angel of death	02:59
greghacke	whom?	03:08
greghacke	i consider myself more darker shade of grey...	03:09
Radix-wrk	The time of purification is at hand	03:18
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PedersenMJ	g'd evening.	05:20
Radix-wrk	yo	05:52
Radix-wrk	heh - http://gaming.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1257066.php/Study_shows_a_link_between_improved_eyesight_and_action_games	05:53
ckotil	scren -r	05:59
ckotil	sfd	05:59
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nishak	hey i have a query to ask, i even had a chat with Radix yesterday, but due to some problem could not continued	06:50
nishak	anyone there, to help me on search topic	06:50
nishak	???	06:50
PedersenMJ	Dunno if I can help, but will be happy to try.	06:52
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nishak_______	But the problem is that i m using every where Ajax in my website	06:59
nishak_______	due to AJAX many search engine failed to index the pages which are not direclty linked from anywhere but getting called through javascript function	07:00
nishak_______	I want a search engine which will deep crawl my web site	07:00
nishak_______	was wondering if google will be helpful	07:01
nishak_______	if u have any idea about the same	07:01
nishak_______	please help me out	07:01
PedersenMJ	Well, you're already using Ajax and CSS, so why not abuse it a bit more? Add your links (non-javascript versions of them) at the bottom of your page, and set their CSS style to "display: none;"	07:02
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nishak_______	thats fine for a time being i m doing the same	07:13
nishak_______	looking for a better solution	07:13
nishak_______	if a search engine can crawl deep web then it will be better because my web site contains more that 100 such links	07:14
@preaction	realize that intelligent search engines know when something is invisible to users like that	07:14
@preaction	why are you using ajax so intensively anyway?	07:15
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nishak_______	well to optimize and speedup	07:22
@preaction	probably not a good idea, there are still browsers (and always will be browsers) that do not use javascript and/or ajax	07:23
nishak_______	but i have read that google does deep crawling'	07:23
@preaction	how will a screen reader view your site?	07:23
@preaction	how will lynx view your site?	07:23
@preaction	elinks?	07:23
nishak_______	i have not teted it on linux	07:27
nishak_______	but this is specific to browser	07:28
@preaction	i did not say "linux", i said "lynx" and "elinks"	07:28
@preaction	terminal browsers	07:28
nishak_______	javascript is support by almost all browsers its just that u can disable it	07:28
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@preaction	almost all is not all, and you've made your site completely depend...	07:29
@preaction	you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him think...	07:29
Radix-wrk	as a side note - nishak doesn't seem to be using webgui	07:46
Radix-wrk	kinda why I lost interest in helping him using google sitemaps yesterday	07:47
Radix-wrk	he seems to have made his way here after hitting my google sitemaps howto in the wiki	07:49
Radix-wrk	but without the power of webgui behind him - he's going to find it much harder to do what he wants! :)	07:50
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@preaction	was wondering how he got a fully ajax site with WebGUI	08:18
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ckotil	sweet. i just found out whats causing all the unf'd up characters to appear in webgui.log	16:15
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ckotil	heh, my issue didnt get posted to the forums	17:33
ckotil	in PB Support	17:33
ckotil	is the PB SUpport forum broke?	17:41
ckotil	I posted again , and nothing showed	17:41
ckotil	forums look to be busted	17:53
ckotil	ouch.	18:01
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ckotil	ah, they got posted .	18:26
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ckotil	filed a bug on those wierd errors im getting in my webgui.log	18:47
+perlDreamer	with a patch? :)	18:48
ckotil	heh. no sadly	18:48
ckotil	JT said it looks to be an issue with error handling inside http proxy	18:48
ckotil	and the wierd characters come from an .rrd file	18:48
+perlDreamer	what is an rrd file?	18:48
ckotil	which is a round robin database, which we use to generate some graphs about the networks	18:48
+perlDreamer	ah	18:48
ckotil	Yeah http proxy was blowing up httpd, due to proxying huge 30MB syslog files. hundreds of them	18:49
ckotil	so i quit using http proxy, switched to iframe (which blows). then i figured out i didnt have http proxy setup properly. so i turned off proxying of other domains	18:50
+perlDreamer	and then you get this funky error from an rrd file	18:50
ckotil	but the bots still have the url to those http proxy assets.	18:50
ckotil	ya.	18:50
ckotil	and im able to replicate it every time by going to the url the bot did	18:50
+perlDreamer	are you willing to work with me to fix the bug?	18:51
+perlDreamer	since the release has been delayed, there'sa chance we would get it into 7.3.9	18:51
ckotil	ya, i have time. until 4pm EST	18:51
ckotil	One of my engineers looked at http proxy and suggested that it proxy content 'smarter' do a pre fetch to see how big the content is that its going to proxy.	18:52
+perlDreamer	that would be a great RFE, and probably simple to implement	18:53
ckotil	Yah. im not sure how to explain it completely. i dont know much about proxying	18:53
ckotil	some goofyness on the boards today.	19:03
+perlDreamer	JT's right. That file is lying. It says that it's a plain text file, instead of a file with encodings for download.	19:04
+perlDreamer	The boards seem a little slow.	19:04
ckotil	ah. so is it not really a bug?	19:04
+perlDreamer	might be, might not be	19:04
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+perlDreamer	it's