WebGUI irc logs from: 2007-02.log

@preaction
--- Log opened Thu Feb 01 00:00:25 2007
+perlDreamer	the problem is the thread/post relationship	00:06
+perlDreamer	if you rate a post, then it needs to go recalculate the thread	00:06
+perlDreamer	but since a Thread ISA Post, it ends up doing things twice	00:06
+perlDreamer	again!	00:06
+perlDreamer	I just need to break all the parts out and call them separately instead of using inheritance	00:07
+perlDreamer	threads should have their own rating counter	00:07
+perlDreamer	threadRating	00:07
+perlDreamer	then this would all go away	00:07
+perlDreamer	all the logic and code would reduce down to almost nothing	00:07
+perlDreamer	rizen: you awake?	00:09
@rizen	working on support problems	00:09
@rizen	is it something quick?	00:09
+perlDreamer	can I add a new column to the thread table to hold the summed thread rating?	00:09
@rizen	doesn't it already have one for that?	00:10
+perlDreamer	no	00:10
+perlDreamer	it recycles the Post rating column	00:10
@rizen	sure	00:10
@rizen	oh right	00:10
+perlDreamer	I'll make sure that we can display the right thing in the Post view template.	00:10
@rizen	so you want to keep the thread post seperate from the thread overall	00:11
+perlDreamer	If so, then I'll do it	00:11
+perlDreamer	yes	00:11
@rizen	go for it	00:11
+perlDreamer	okay	00:11
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onioncoder	has anyone seen Google Gadgets? Anyone thought of allowing any webgui asset to be a "gadget" that could be dropped into anyone else's non-webgui website via a snippet of code?	00:14
@preaction	an XMLRPC interface that returns JSON output? a javascript library that parses it and spits out HTML?	00:17
@preaction	i mean, some assets have RSS feeds	00:17
@preaction	what kind of code are you talking about writing to interface with whatever interface is built?	00:17
onioncoder	(looking for an example for you)]	00:18
@preaction	Javascript? Perl? <other>?	00:18
+perlDreamer	preaction, maybe AJAX instead of XMLRPC?	00:18
@preaction	twitch PHP?	00:18
onioncoder	http://www.google.com/apis/gadgets/index.html	00:18
@preaction	ajax is just a standard http call, so perhaps "?func=ajax;method=XXX"?	00:19
onioncoder	the way google does it, I think, is a <script > javascript link	00:19
onioncoder	that does ajax back to google for content	00:19
onioncoder	since webgui assets can be "ajaxified" already (most i think)	00:19
* perlDreamer flushes preaction's keyboard buffer and remove all references to PHP		00:20
onioncoder	the idea would be to allow a script tag on a remote site to fetch just that asset	00:20
* perlDreamer hits the reset button		00:20
+perlDreamer	is that better preaction?	00:20
@preaction	is what better?	00:20
@preaction	ahh, mind-wipes	00:20
@preaction	i'm not worried, because i never knew i could be worried!	00:20
+perlDreamer	I thought you locked up there	00:20
+perlDreamer	after the *twitch	00:21
@preaction	but if i read that line again, i'll have whatever it was that made me twitch on my head again, and that would make me twitch again	00:21
@preaction	anyway	00:21
onioncoder	anyone? anyone? ferris?	00:21
@preaction	well, currently we have the RSSCapable mixin	00:21
onioncoder	here's an eg of a google map: <script src="http://gmodules.com/ig/ifr?url=http://ralph.feedback.googlepages.com/googlemap.xml&up_locname=Google&up_loc=1600%20Amphitheatre%20Parkway%2C%20Mountain%20View%2C%20CA&up_zoom=Street&up_view=Map&synd=open&w=320&h=200&title=Google+Map&border=%23ffffff%7C3px%2C1px+solid+%23999999&output=js"></script>	00:22
@preaction	perhaps a "GadgetCapable" or something that would provide a www_ajax method and an interface to override	00:22
onioncoder	drop that code into any html and voila	00:22
onioncoder	right - exactly	00:22
@preaction	this is more of a community building feature	00:23
@preaction	and the CS is turning into a monster	00:23
@preaction	and XMLRPC sucks for the most part anyway, since AJAX uses JavaScript	00:24
@preaction	i say it's a good idea, but i also say it's a rather intensive idea that needs to be developed appropriately	00:24
onioncoder	right - i'm thinking of a fund a feature with pb	00:25
@preaction	(but along the lines of the RSSCapable asset mixin)	00:25
@preaction	rather, asset base	00:25
@preaction	contact the appropriate people for a quote, though i'll warn you that it will probably be larger than you might expect	00:25
@preaction	is there a limit to your desire? just the CS wobject for example?	00:26
onioncoder	k - what are the pitfalls you are seeing?	00:26
@preaction	it CAN be done for all Assets, but that takes more time	00:26
@preaction	the Calendar would be a good candidate for this	00:26
@preaction	but there's already iCalendar feeds from that	00:26
+perlDreamer	I don't see the point.	00:26
+perlDreamer	but I'm thick	00:26
@preaction	perlDreamer: basically thus: you get to access content from a wG site on your own personal site	00:27
@preaction	so let's say I want to put the plainblack support calendar on my own site, i'd add a <script src="SOME URL"></script> tag to my site, and voila!	00:27
onioncoder	and if it is fully ajaxified, can be interactive without requiring refresh on the remote site	00:27
+perlDreamer	you'd do it through iCal	00:27
onioncoder	ok - now think of publishing interactive content	00:28
@preaction	wG can't do that now	00:28
+perlDreamer	a lot of sites generate revenue from ads	00:28
onioncoder	WSClient	00:28
+perlDreamer	this would allow access to the content bypassing the ads	00:28
onioncoder	k- you guys are bogged down on why, not how	00:28
@preaction	why is the most important question?	00:28
@preaction	what's the end result that you can't get currently?	00:29
@preaction	for the CS you can get RSS feeds and format them, RSS is XML so there are javascript parsers.	00:29
onioncoder	a) I have internal APIs I can expose as SOAP, REST, etc etc	00:29
@preaction	for the Calendar you can get iCalendar feeds, and i'm sure there must be a Javascript parser for vCal/iCal/vCard	00:29
onioncoder	b) most end users arent' sophisticated ehough to code for that	00:30
onioncoder	c) I can have webgui consume my APIs via WS Client or equivalent	00:30
onioncoder	d) an enduser can then just copy/paste a generated link for that interactive SOAP driven content	00:30
onioncoder	I could write my own gadget system	00:31
onioncoder	but in some ways easier to let WebGUI be a gadget distribution system for me	00:31
onioncoder	that is the why	00:31
@preaction	so this doesn't export JSON, it exports javascript source	00:32
@preaction	hence the <script src=""></script>	00:32
@preaction	can we assume that people can import and/or use a Javascript library instead?	00:33
onioncoder	right - it is a javascript container, which then in turn can then do the ajax to get the content -- kind of a bootstrap i guess	00:33
@preaction	<script src="path/to/downloaded/javascript/library.js">goGetGadget("URL");</script>	00:33
@preaction	rofl, goGetGadget("COPTER")	00:34
onioncoder	so once you have done it once for one type of asset, it should work with any asset that has a www_ajax method (in a perfect world)	00:34
onioncoder	lol	00:34
@preaction	like the RSSCapable asset base class	00:34
onioncoder	does it still seem as bad?	00:35
@preaction	so currently we have two needs: One: Assets have an AJAX interface for some features. Two: Some way to make that AJAX interface easy for lusers	00:35
+perlDreamer	we can't solve two because that's the user's site	00:35
+perlDreamer	each site would have to have their own click and drag interface for widgets	00:35
+perlDreamer	drupal, livejournal, plone, etc.	00:36
+perlDreamer	even wG	00:36
@preaction	well, i think that if we make it as easy as copy/paste the above source, the <script> thing, that's easy enough	00:36
@preaction	then provide options to change (for example) formattings and the like	00:37
onioncoder	usage example: a charity has a website in wG, they have donors who want to promote the charity on their personal homepage, they could just have a link, yes. but this could let them drop in a donation "gadget" on any html webpage	00:37
@preaction	but if we use semantic output and a way to specify the <div id="">, then they can use CSS and descendant selectors to change style	00:37
@preaction	the "gadget" being, say, a DataForm? or a Product? or something?	00:38
onioncoder	WS Client or equivalent for example	00:38
@preaction	i personally find the WSClient evil sorcery	00:39
@preaction	bewitched!	00:39
* perlDreamer is afk		00:39
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@preaction	can I get some opinions: I think I can eliminate a lot of problems for the Calendar by forcing that an event's recurrence starts on the exact same day the event itself starts on	00:50
@preaction	some problems are just the user did not update the Recurrence Range Start date	00:50
@preaction	to be honest, it doesn't do what I personally expect when I make an event the recurs, I expect it to start when the event itself starts, and have the end be specified by me	00:51
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+perlDreamer	rizen: I've been through this from top to bottom. The concept of adding a new column.	01:02
+perlDreamer	the booger is user templates	01:02
+perlDreamer	the changed system would allow the user to see both the rating of the thread post and the accumulated rating of the entire thread of posts.	01:02
castironhike19	i'm upgrading to 7.3.8 from 6.6.5 and i'm comparing our templates to an "out of the box" WG site, and i need help with adding the js tags to the templates	01:03
+perlDreamer	we can change the default templates to cover this but users would have to update their own custom templates.	01:03
@rizen	pd this shouldn't affect templates unless people want it to	01:04
@rizen	here's why	01:04
castironhike19	on the out of the box setup, i found 3 js tags, and i was hoping i could get some help with which should be included in all templates, and which is just enabling features for the default WG v7 page	01:04
@rizen	in the thread template, we want to display the rating for the thread post, not thread cumulative	01:04
+perlDreamer	oh	01:04
+perlDreamer	oh!	01:04
@rizen	in the colloboration main template we want to display the thread cum, not the other one	01:04
@rizen	so the only thing that needs to change	01:04
@rizen	is in collaboration main view	01:04
@rizen	change which variable is populating the template	01:05
gooeybot	rizen: that doesn't look right	01:05
+perlDreamer	you're a genius	01:05
+perlDreamer	I'm a'coding	01:05
@rizen	only on alternate wednesdays	01:05
@rizen	most of the time i'm a moron	01:05
+perlDreamer	It's just the cold	01:06
+perlDreamer	castironhike19: which variables are you talking about? The IRC group is small. You may have more success posting this to the PB discussion boards.	01:06
castironhike19	i haven't been able to find too much on there so far, and the upgrade notes that have been helpful are few and far between	01:07
castironhike19	but i'll post the question there	01:09
+perlDreamer	which vars are you talking about?	01:09
castironhike19	mostly i'm trying to figure out how to get it to access the new js lib	01:09
+perlDreamer	I don't think you need to do anything to your templates to do that	01:10
+perlDreamer	it should be handled by the HTTP headers	01:10
+perlDreamer	and for the most part, they're set up automatically	01:10
castironhike19	so, on our old templates, there was a js lib tag at the top of all the templates, which was <script src="/js-lib/global.js" type="text/javascript" language="javascript"></script>	01:10
castironhike19	oh, ok	01:10
+perlDreamer	Here's how to get answers on the boards	01:11
+perlDreamer	be very, very specific	01:11
+perlDreamer	provide links for examples	01:11
+perlDreamer	which template, what problems you're seeing	01:11
+perlDreamer	and be patient	01:11
castironhike19	hehe	01:12
castironhike19	i've learned that much, for sure	01:12
+perlDreamer	some people follow-up their own posts a few days later bad mouthing the community because there's no answer	01:12
castironhike19	no no, none of that	01:12
+perlDreamer	if after a few days you don't get an answer, then try to find PedersenMJ on IRC. He's our new resident style/template expert.	01:12
+perlDreamer	community wise	01:12
castironhike19	great. thanks for the tips!	01:13
+perlDreamer	and if you're still stuck or in a rush, contact Plain Black and ask for a support contract or documentation	01:13
castironhike19	right on	01:13
+perlDreamer	this announcement brought to you by Plain Black, makers of WebGUI :)	01:13
castironhike19	haha	01:13
cap10morgan	i'm actually wondering the same thing. is there a standard js include like the old global.js in version 7.x.x? sorry, that wasn't clear to me in your conversation.	01:14
+perlDreamer	yes, but I'm almost positive that it's added in the HTTP headers now	01:15
cap10morgan	perlDreamer: ok, thanks.	01:15
+perlDreamer	so you only have to add site specific JS libs in the templates	01:15
cap10morgan	cool	01:15
+perlDreamer	rizen: as part of the upgrade should the upgrade script go through ALL threads and posts and fix them?	01:17
@rizen	absolutely	01:19
@rizen	it wouldn't be fixed if it didn't	01:19
@preaction	rofl, i didn't pass the assetId to the form when editing an event... how does it even work once?	01:27
@rizen	you shouldn't need to	01:28
@rizen	you're editing off the url	01:28
@rizen	so it knows what assetid is by that	01:28
@preaction	right, but when you submit that form you need an assetId	01:28
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@rizen	i'll take your word for it	01:28
@preaction	oh, i see	01:29
@preaction	you're right	01:29
@preaction	then... crap, more digging	01:29
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+perlDreamer	anyone care to write me an getLineage command to fetch all threads?	01:46
+perlDreamer	and return objects?	01:46
+MrHairgrease	sure	01:50
+MrHairgrease	gimme a moment	01:50
+MrHairgrease	$cs->getLineage(['descendants'], {endingLineageLength => $cs->getLineageLength + 1, returnObjects => 1});	01:54
+MrHairgrease	something like that	01:55
@preaction	if $object->can("method"); and I try to run $object->method(), is there any special reasons why the method would not run?	01:55
+perlDreamer	and if I wanted _all_ threads I could change the $cs to $root	01:55
+perlDreamer	preaction: args?	01:55
@preaction	perlDreamer: none	01:55
@preaction	perlDreamer: the first line of that method i changed to a warning, and that warning never gets printed	01:55
+MrHairgrease	yes	01:56
+MrHairgrease	and ditch the endingLineageLength	01:56
+perlDreamer	preaction: are you sure the invoker is also called?	01:56
+MrHairgrease	and add	01:56
@preaction	perlDreamer: i would find it better to do, for that, $root->getLineage(["descendants"],{ includeOnlyClasses => ["WebGUI::Asset::Post::Thread"] });	01:56
+MrHairgrease	includeOnlyClasses => ['WebGUI::Asset::Post::Thread']	01:56
+perlDreamer	MrHairGrease: many, many thanks	01:57
+MrHairgrease	np	01:57
@preaction	perlDreamer: i've got a bunch of warnings around the call and they get called just fine	01:57
+perlDreamer	just weird	01:57
@preaction	imma restart and see	01:57
@preaction	mod_perl can be a cruel mistress sometimes	01:57
@preaction	nope	01:58
@preaction	this is keeping Events that have recurrence from updating the related Events	01:58
@preaction	there are a slew of "Pending" version tags that requestAutoCommit is not getting called to commit	01:59
@preaction	okay, it is getting called it's just not DOING IT	02:03
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@preaction	ha! it's because addRevision doesn't modify the current asset in-place, but returns the new asset	02:21
@preaction	i updated the docs accordingly	02:22
@rizen	perlDreamer, you still here?	02:29
+perlDreamer	I'm here	02:29
+perlDreamer	for a bit more	02:29
+perlDreamer	whazzup?	02:30
@rizen	i'm working on a weird bug (no report for it just keep hearing about it) and need some input	02:30
@rizen	the bug is that if there's a bunch of errors in spectre workflows	02:30
@rizen	that no legit workflows run	02:30
@rizen	because spectre is so busy dealing with the borked ones	02:30
@rizen	until they time out	02:30
+MrHairgrease	I've seen such a pileup once or twice	02:31
@rizen	so basically if you get something borked (let's say on a multisite server, someone creates some bad workflows)	02:31
+MrHairgrease	just restarted spectre	02:31
@rizen	then the whole show stops for a while	02:31
@rizen	my thought on how to clear this is to implement a new queuing scheme	02:31
@rizen	we have priority 1, 2, and 3	02:32
@rizen	but let's assume we can have as many queues as we want	02:32
@rizen	so that 1 2 and 3 turn into	02:32
@rizen	10 20 and 30	02:32
@rizen	then every time a workflow is run	02:33
@rizen	it gets put down 1 level in the que	02:33
@rizen	queue	02:33
@rizen	to 11	02:33
@rizen	and then to 12	02:33
@rizen	assuming it was priority 1 to begin with	02:33
@rizen	so if it runs 10 times, then it will be at 20	02:33
@rizen	which is where priority 2 stuff starts	02:33
@rizen	basically, if something priority 1 runs long enough	02:34
@rizen	it will be at the bottom of the stack with all the crap	02:34
@rizen	because if it is running that long...it should be put dead last anyway	02:34
@rizen	what this solves is that everything then gets a turn to run	02:34
@rizen	without gumming up the system	02:34
@rizen	how i do it now is	02:34
@rizen	if something errors	02:34
@rizen	it's taken out of the queue for 60 seconds	02:34
@rizen	and then returned back to whatever queue it was already in (1,2,3	02:35
@rizen	so if you have a lot of those	02:35
@rizen	and they're all erroring out in queue 1	02:35
@rizen	then queues 2 and 3 will never have a chance to run	02:35
@rizen	ever	02:35
@rizen	because it may take longer than 60 seconds	02:35
@rizen	to cycle through all the bad crap	02:35
@preaction	does it only get downgraded if it errors?	02:35
+perlDreamer	yeah, can we make a distinction between requeue due to time out vs erroring out?	02:36
@rizen	i'm thinking it gets downgraded no matter what	02:36
+perlDreamer	if you error out, longer timeout before requeue	02:36
@rizen	a 50 step workflow	02:36
@rizen	would run 51 times	02:36
@rizen	so if it started at 10	02:36
@rizen	it would be at 61 when it completes	02:36
@rizen	assuming it completed on the first attempt	02:36
@rizen	for each activity	02:36
@rizen	we could do a longer timeout	02:37
@rizen	but that still doesn't scale much better	02:37
@rizen	it might work for one environment	02:37
@rizen	but not for all	02:37
@rizen	we need to come up with a way to make sure that everything gets a chance	02:37
@preaction	perhaps high priority don't go down so fast? 1 level for HP, 2 for Medium, 3 for Low, so long, high-priority workflows still get preferred in the long run?	02:37
@rizen	yo tun	02:37
@rizen	to run	02:37
@rizen	keep in mind that high priority workflows will still have 10 high priority executions	02:38
@rizen	before they get mixed in with the cruft	02:38
@rizen	that's way more than they should need to complete	02:38
@preaction	ok	02:38
@rizen	most workflows complete within 3-5 executions	02:39
@rizen	in fact, commit without approval completes in 1 execution almost every time (unless there's an error)	02:39
@rizen	anyway..does anybody see any problems with doing this sort of a filter	02:40
@rizen	rather than the 3 queues method we do now	02:40
+perlDreamer	can we add some profiling to monitor queue health?	02:40
@rizen	explain	02:41
+perlDreamer	brb	02:41
@preaction	the only problem i see, you've brought up: a very very long workflow will be relegated (Eventually) to the bottom of the barrel	02:41
@rizen	yeah...and i'm not sure that's a problem	02:42
@rizen	since a very very long workflow needs to give up some of it's time so that other things can run	02:42
@rizen	that's the whole idea of time sharing	02:42
@preaction	right, but it's giving up both time and priority, "I need time, but I'll wait, and I'll also pretend to need time less than I did last time"	02:43
+perlDreamer	so in profiling, we would keep track of how deep a workflow goes before it leaves the queue, either by completing or falling off the end	02:43
+perlDreamer	this gives us a way of identifying queue depth and troublesome workflows	02:43
+perlDreamer	i.e. if Workflow A NEVER executes, now we have something concrete to go look at	02:44
@rizen	preaction: sorry, time = 1 execution, not regular time	02:44
+perlDreamer	instead of saying: reset spectre and call me in the morning	02:44
@preaction	so not the 60 second limit thing?	02:44
@rizen	right, there will not be a timeout anymore	02:44
@rizen	pd: to you	02:45
@rizen	there are a few things	02:45
@preaction	oh, then i don't have an issue	02:45
@rizen	i have planned	02:45
@rizen	1) you'll be able to run a command line	02:45
@rizen	perl spectre.pl --status	02:45
@rizen	which will tell you how many workflows there are waiting and their priorities	02:46
@rizen	2) you'll also be able to do some ps functions	02:46
@rizen	like top	02:46
@rizen	kill	02:46
@rizen	that sort of thing	02:46
@rizen	3) the status information will be available through the admin console (from web browser)	02:46
@rizen	though the other things will not, for security reasons	02:47
@rizen	4) you can already see what workflows are running and their status, and what version tags are pending	02:47
@rizen	5) the workflow status screen will be updated to include more information	02:47
@rizen	sorry, the "running workflows" screen	02:47
@preaction	perlDreamer: we're still on for the calendar docs tonight? i'm gonna grab some food so I'll bbl	02:48
+perlDreamer	preaction: yes 7:30pm PST	02:48
@rizen	i plan on doing all these things as part of 7.3 bug fixing, because we're seeing a lot of spectre problems	02:48
@rizen	and we need better tools to troubleshoot with	02:48
@rizen	so, given that list	02:48
@rizen	does that cover what you were looking for?	02:48
+perlDreamer	Almost all of it, yes	02:48
+perlDreamer	I still think a history would be good	02:49
+perlDreamer	1-5 cover what's happening now	02:49
+perlDreamer	but not what has happened	02:49
@rizen	spectre is doing all this stuff in memory	02:49
@rizen	and doesn't communicate with the db	02:49
@rizen	so therefore keeping history like that	02:49
@rizen	would be a memory leak	02:49
+perlDreamer	yes.	02:50
@rizen	i suppose we could add a special debug runtime flag that would keep the history	02:50
+perlDreamer	it could go in the WebGUI logfile as well.	02:51
@rizen	that way you could have it when you're troubleshooting	02:51
+perlDreamer	it would just need to be postprocessed	02:51
@rizen	and turn it off later	02:51
+perlDreamer	yes	02:51
+perlDreamer	it's just a debug feature	02:51
+perlDreamer	not a runtime	02:51
@rizen	ok	02:51
@rizen	i'll see what i can do on that front	02:51
@rizen	back to my queuing problem	02:51
@rizen	do you see any problems with that?	02:51
@rizen	my new solution?	02:51
+perlDreamer	not off the top of my head	02:52
+perlDreamer	so long as things fall off the end, it should never get stuck	02:52
+perlDreamer	although bad workflows may interrupt lower priority workflows	02:52
+perlDreamer	if junk is at 15, and I insert at 20, it may not get run for a while until the 15 flows past me	02:52
@rizen	it never will get stuck, but going back to your historical thing	02:52
@rizen	it will be interesting if you run --status	02:53
+perlDreamer	via cron	02:53
@rizen	and see that there is a workflow that's been executing 100937 times	02:53
+perlDreamer	wait, I thought it would only execute 50 times?	02:53
+perlDreamer	is 51 death? or bottom out?	02:53
@rizen	no, it will keep executing until it completes	02:53
@rizen	no bottom out	02:53
+perlDreamer	well, in that case, there's our historical data right there	02:54
+perlDreamer	everything in 50 is problematic	02:54
@rizen	historical for anything that's still running	02:54
@rizen	it won't show any historical data for things that have completed	02:54
+perlDreamer	right, and that's fine	02:54
@rizen	oh	02:54
@rizen	well in that case	02:54
+perlDreamer	we can always identify big workflows by using our heads	02:54
@rizen	we're good	02:54
+perlDreamer	email lists, post/thread archives	02:55
+perlDreamer	these are potentially big workflows	02:55
+perlDreamer	we can deal with them individually	02:55
@rizen	cache deletes are the biggest	02:55
@rizen	big caches can take a long time to run	02:55
@rizen	for cleanup	02:55
+perlDreamer	what about cache populates for RSS and iCal?	02:55
@rizen	huh?	02:56
+perlDreamer	there is an RSS populate workflow	02:56
+perlDreamer	I figured there'd be one for iCal as well	02:56
@rizen	oh right	02:56
@rizen	those aren't all that long	02:56
@rizen	unless there are connectivity problems	02:56
@rizen	they usually complete in 1 execution	02:56
+perlDreamer	okay	02:56
@rizen	ok...must get dinner now	02:57
+perlDreamer	so the long part is identifying which cache entries have expired	02:57
@rizen	yes	02:57
+perlDreamer	okay. see ya!	02:57
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@rizen	which won't be as big of a deal if i can complete my goal of getting rid of FS cache at some point	02:57
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@preaction	woohoo, first time i've had an alcoholic beverage in 8 months, and now i'm going bughunting!	04:35
* preaction maintains professional composure in a public forum		04:35
Radix-wrk	lol	04:44
Radix-wrk	What alcoholic beverage though?	04:45
@preaction	brandy old-fashioned sour	04:45
@preaction	my new favorite, followed closely by white russians and vodka martinis	04:45
@preaction	crap, i just realized that our additions to the WebGUI::DateTime interface are somewhat ambiguous, because of WebGUI's ability to allow users to specify their own date/time formats...	04:48
Radix-wrk	I had fun with Webtender.com's "In My Bar" for New years myself.. got a nice collection of liquers and spirits for the occasion (all rather cheap thanks to a friend who works at a bottle shop), and we tried lots of concoctions that night :)	04:49
+crythias	"Thank you for the completely inadequate wedding gift."	04:49
+crythias	http://www.cafepress.com/bridezilla.7451373	04:49
Radix-wrk	heh	04:50
@preaction	ha ha, that's clever	04:50
Radix-wrk	So how goes the bughunt?	04:54
@preaction	ugly... deep-rooted calendar bugs	04:55
Radix-wrk	:(	04:55
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Radix-wrk	Hmm.. just had our website disappear in a bunch of workflow errors - now getting '502 Bad Gateway' messages..	05:04
@preaction	bad gateway means modperl is down	05:05
Radix-wrk	just clearing the webguicache and when that's done will do a full restart	05:05
@preaction	sounds a goodly idea	05:05
Radix-wrk	2007/02/01 09:54:53 - ERROR - webgui.formsys.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - Caught	05:06
Radix-wrk	exception executing workflow activity pbwfactivity0000000006 for instance 2ZdKB	05:06
Radix-wrk	38_LmaEf0cGSRtLKA which reported Can't call method "get" on an undefined value a	05:06
Radix-wrk	t /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm line 276.	05:06
@preaction	JT was just discussing in here a way to (imho) fix specture entirely	05:06
@preaction	by changing the way it prioritizes and runs workflows	05:06
@preaction	which iirc he'll be adding to the 7.3.* bugfixes	05:06
Radix-wrk	Yeah, the spectre stuff still doesn't seem 100% yet	05:07
@preaction	and if i make this verdamnt calendar USABLE we can get on to 7.4 soon	05:07
Radix-wrk	cool	05:07
@preaction	basically thus: workflows will lose priority as they keep running, so workflows that cause a lot of errors will eventually be delegated to the very bottom of the barrel, and thus not clog up the works	05:08
Radix-wrk	the reason they're failing needs to be sorted out too though - not just dismiss them surely.	05:13
@preaction	of course, you'll be able to see what workflows have been running forever	05:13
@preaction	and then figure out why	05:13
Radix-wrk	these failures are all due to code in formatContent that seems to do no error checking - it's doing a $self->getThread->getParent->get("filterCode"));	05:14
@preaction	yeah, it shouldn't do that, but also those should not be failing	05:15
@preaction	it means you have a corrupt Post	05:15
@preaction	or Thread	05:15
@preaction	what line is that?	05:15
Radix-wrk	276	05:15
@preaction	i can add some warnings that will help track those corruptions down	05:15
Radix-wrk	I'm using 7.0.8 still tho	05:15
Radix-wrk	so may have been fixed in more recent versions	05:16
@preaction	i don't htink we changed it in recent ones, but i'll check	05:16
Radix-wrk	I think there are some issues with collaboration systems having posts made before they're version tag is committed	05:16
@preaction	oh, right	05:16
@preaction	yes, now CS forces committing before any Posts can be added	05:17
Radix-wrk	don't know why the whole site would've died because of that tho	05:18
Radix-wrk	clean of cache and restart fixed it	05:18
@preaction	weirdness	05:18
Radix-wrk	Oh well.. I'll keep waiting for 7.4 :)	05:19
@preaction	it's 7.3.9 or 7.3.10 you should be waiting for	05:22
@preaction	the last 7.3 release will have a clean bug list	05:22
Radix-wrk	Yeah, but we can't do password recovery with this new method of using profile fields - got over 4500 users and none of them have any profile fields we could use for password recovery	05:23
Radix-wrk	so gotta wait til 7.4 before the old password recovery method is added back in	05:23
@preaction	not even an e-mail address?	05:23
Radix-wrk	sure, but then anyone could take anyone else's account over if he had their email address	05:24
@preaction	... it doesn't send the new password to the e-mail address in the profile?	05:24
@preaction	i'm not sure how the new one works	05:24
Radix-wrk	me neither really, but the way JT described it was that it was all web based.. no emails sent	05:25
Radix-wrk	you say you forgot password, enter in one or more profile fields - if they match then you can enter in a new password	05:25
@preaction	ahh	05:25
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Radix-wrk	great if you have a new setup - you can add them to the signup info, but not if you have a lot of existing users with no such info	05:26
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@preaction	right	05:26
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@preaction	well, pb.com doesn't use the new password recovery method that i know of either	05:26
Radix-wrk	Hmm.. wonder how it's doing it then...	05:26
@preaction	at least, theres nothing on register that you enter for password recovery purposes	05:27
Radix-wrk	Ahh.. forgot password is disabled for pb.com atm	05:28
Radix-wrk	there's no link to it anymore on pb.com, and it doesn't even recognise the ?op=auth;method=recoverPassword stuff either	05:30
Radix-wrk	hope noone forgets their password! :)	05:30
@preaction	http://www.dieselsweeties.com/print/strips/ds20070119.png	05:31
PedersenMJ	g'd evening.	05:35
Radix-wrk	yo	05:35
PedersenMJ	How's it going?	05:36
Radix-wrk	what's it?	05:36
PedersenMJ	life, the universe, and everything.	05:37
Radix-wrk	it's still 42	05:37
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Radix-wrk	the bowl of petunias is okay tho	05:37
PedersenMJ	Really? I heard that it was still in the whale when the whale tried to become friends with the ground, and didn't do so well when that happened.	05:38
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@preaction	i heard the bowl of petunias was somehow killed, since it was really Agrajag in one of his incarnations	05:42
PedersenMJ	Yeah, and he had a bitch of a time getting that onto the statue of Arthur killing him in 50 some odd ways.	05:43
Radix-wrk	I just want to know why it said "Oh no, not again"	05:43
+perlDreamer	what in the world are y'all talking about?	05:43
@preaction	if we knew that, we'd know a lot more about the universe than we currently do	05:43
+perlDreamer	roger that	05:43
Radix-wrk	hence why I want to know :)	05:43
Radix-wrk	perlDreamer, we're talking about 42	05:43
+perlDreamer	42	05:44
PedersenMJ	Well, I heard that it said "oh no, not again" because it still hadn't mastered the art of throwing itself at the ground and missing.	05:45
+perlDreamer	preaction: are you a documentron tonight?	05:45
@preaction	it can't very well throw itself anywhere, it's a plant!	05:46
@preaction	perlDreamer: yes'm	05:46
+perlDreamer	give me a holler when you're ready to start	05:46
PedersenMJ	Precisely why it was so upset at the current forced attempt!	05:46
+perlDreamer	in the meantime I'll be cursing myself as 12 kinds of idiot	05:46
@preaction	perlDreamer: any time, i suppose we start with "Where the hell do I look for to add this stuff?"	05:46
@rizen	pd: why?	05:46
+perlDreamer	I left the new prototype upgrade script at $dayJob	05:47
+perlDreamer	but brought all the Asset changes home	05:47
+perlDreamer	without all the pieces, I can't finish the debug and test	05:47
@rizen	and you haven't made yourself a back door into your work network yet	05:47
@rizen	for shame	05:47
+perlDreamer	not allowed to	05:47
@rizen	you're never allowed to	05:47
+perlDreamer	no access to the firewall	05:47
@rizen	doesn't mean you don't	05:47
Radix-wrk	no vpn? ssh?	05:47
@rizen	access to the firewall is for pussies	05:47
@preaction	Randall Schwartz is a felon because of making a backdoor like that :p	05:48
Radix-wrk	ssh tunnels ftw	05:48
+perlDreamer	preaction: The docs are in two pieces: i18n is in i18n/English/Asset_*	05:48
+perlDreamer	Help is in Help/Asset_*	05:48
@preaction	ok	05:48
@rizen	preaction: shhhh. i want pd to go to jail so he can work on webgui full time	05:48
@preaction	Help is where the template docs are too? i suppose i'll see when I open one up	05:48
+perlDreamer	have a gander at the Article help for a good example of how to start	05:48
+perlDreamer	template docs have 4 pieces	05:48
+perlDreamer	title	05:48
+perlDreamer	body	05:48
+perlDreamer	all variables	05:48
+perlDreamer	and then ISA relationships to pull in other template vars from other entries	05:49
+perlDreamer	oh, and have JT tell you where to find my documentation presentation from the 2005 WUC.	05:49
@preaction	i should put Event and Calendar help in different places? even thought the Calendar is where people will probably expect to find Event help?	05:50
+perlDreamer	yes	05:50
+perlDreamer	1 file per Asset	05:51
+perlDreamer	both i18n and Help	05:51
@preaction	just like i18n, k	05:51
+perlDreamer	Even the Wiki is done that way	05:51
+perlDreamer	I'm going to try a VPN connection into work, I may drop out for a bit	05:51
@preaction	k	05:52
@preaction	perlDreamer: this huge datastructure is kind of ugly, is there a specific reason it's all done as one big one and not broken up into multiple statements?	05:56
PedersenMJ	Hey, Radix, to return the favor for firebug last night, here's a mostly equivalent tool for IE: http://www.ieinspector.com/	05:57
+perlDreamer	I'm in!	05:57
+perlDreamer	which huge ugly datastructure are we talking about?	05:57
@preaction	the Help one	05:57
+perlDreamer	How would you break it up?	05:57
@preaction	$HELP->{"calendar add/edit"} = $calendarAddEditPage; $calendarAddEditPage->{fields} = []; ->{related} = []; etc...	05:58
@preaction	basically build the hash for a page, and then add it to the main hash	05:58
+perlDreamer	It's perl code. You can do that.	05:58
+perlDreamer	Have a look inside the Macros.pm Help file	05:58
+perlDreamer	near "list of macros"	05:59
@preaction	where it's using subs instead of text?	05:59
@preaction	hooray anonymous subs ;)	05:59
+perlDreamer	yeah, site specific listing of your macros	06:02
+perlDreamer	It's just perl code	06:02
+perlDreamer	so long as it builds the final data structure and you indent exactly the way as all the other files, knock yourself out.	06:02
@preaction	well, the indentation will change to adhere to PBP, because they aren't such horribly nested data structures some of the indentation won't be necessary	06:03
@preaction	i'll do it and see how pretty i can make it, and then if i fail, i'll just run Data::Dumper and take that output ;)	06:03
+perlDreamer	perltidy will cure all ills	06:04
PedersenMJ	JT, quick question: I'm putting a link to WDR in the article I'm working on. Is this link (https://www.plainblack.com/services/wdr) likely to change in the near term future?	06:05
PedersenMJ	Some of the discussions on the forums seemed to indicate it might.	06:05
@rizen	shouldn't	06:05
PedersenMJ	Okay. Just wanted to make sure. Thank you.	06:05
@rizen	at least not until april/may	06:05
PedersenMJ	Well, that means this article should be visible without change for at least two months, so that's all I can ask for.	06:08
@rizen	i'm not saying it will change then, just that it's safe until then	06:08
@rizen	it will likely stay there for a year	06:09
PedersenMJ	Which is even better. Heck, having a stable link for a week is sometimes a miracle on the web.	06:10
@preaction	ok, so "fields" are URL parameters, and "variables" are template variables	06:17
PedersenMJ	BTW, I'd like to thank whomever integrated the mce editor. It might seem silly to say this, but having it remember the size of the textbox from one edit to another is a very nice usability feature. I appreciate it.	06:18
+perlDreamer	fields are form parameters with hoverHelp	06:19
+perlDreamer	does anyone have a website that they'd like to sacrifice/donate for the testing of my new upgrade script?	06:19
@preaction	perlDreamer: so normal URL parameters are not documented? ones w/o hoverHelp? like as in a Search form?	06:20
PedersenMJ	pd: How soon do you need it? I could make one tomorrow for it.	06:21
+perlDreamer	PedersenMJ: it needs to have an extensive collaboration system	06:22
@preaction	perlDreamer: is it committed? i can do it	06:22
@preaction	oh	06:22
+perlDreamer	It's not committed yet.	06:22
@preaction	i can pull a dump of pb.com and we can test it on that	06:22
+perlDreamer	preaction: hidden URL params would not be documented, only user interface level stuff	06:22
+perlDreamer	unless they were template variables required for a template Event form to work, for example	06:23
@preaction	so a search form, those would be	06:23
@preaction	and the hidden "recurId" field on the Event form would be	06:23
+perlDreamer	only because it would be a template variable required to build the form	06:23
@preaction	right	06:23
+perlDreamer	check out the Post Help. The edit interface is documented as a template, not as a form.	06:24
@preaction	but like when documenting the search page, would i not say "these fields are required and this is what they do to the search results returned?"	06:24
@preaction	i can't do both?	06:24
+perlDreamer	if your form is templated, do them all	06:24
@preaction	well, admittedly, the form is built using template vars	06:24
+perlDreamer	there you go	06:25
+perlDreamer	this is a template	06:25
@preaction	should i just make a remark about "passing in the 'start=' parameter on the first visit to this page will set the "startDate" field	06:25
+perlDreamer	not unless the user can do it via a UI element	06:26
+perlDreamer	the 7.3.9 changlog entry is reminiscent of the 6.x series	06:27
+perlDreamer	it's huge!	06:27
@preaction	no, the user themselves can't, the idea is that template designers should	06:27
+perlDreamer	rizen: I'm committing the Post rating work	06:28
+perlDreamer	beware	06:28
@rizen	cool	06:28
@rizen	pd: remember the form/profile stuff?	06:28
* perlDreamer quavers		06:29
+perlDreamer	I wasn't going to mention that	06:29
+perlDreamer	how many other volunteers have the distinction of completely messing up almost all aspects of WebGUI?	06:30
@preaction	i built an upgrade that trashed data?	06:30
+perlDreamer	no	06:30
+perlDreamer	well, you're paid to do that	06:30
+perlDreamer	:)	06:30
+perlDreamer	I did it pro bono	06:30
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@preaction	i'm sorry	06:32
@rizen	i think you're the only one pd	06:32
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@rizen	but that's just one of the many reasons we love you	06:32
+perlDreamer	I break stuff	06:32
+perlDreamer	I test stuff	06:32
+perlDreamer	I document stuff	06:32
+perlDreamer	not necessarily in that order	06:32
@preaction	i won't mention that everyone who's had their hand in the Calendar has caused a bug ;)	06:32
@preaction	damn roy and his needs	06:33
* preaction resolves to write better code so it's not so easy to break stuff		06:33
@preaction	lemme pastebin my "cleaner" help code	06:34
+perlDreamer	well, having done the rating stuff, I'll have a look at Susan's reply stuff next	06:34
PedersenMJ	Sorry for the idle. Wish I could have helped pd.	06:35
+perlDreamer	I always appreciate the offer to help	06:35
@preaction	http://rafb.net/p/LWzTeM69.html <- comments?	06:36
@preaction	i'm not liking the push statements so much anymore	06:37
+perlDreamer	here's the defining test	06:37
+perlDreamer	what shell do you use, preaction?	06:37
@preaction	bash	06:37
+perlDreamer	do you have a valid WebGUI.conf sitting around?	06:37
@preaction	indeed	06:37
+perlDreamer	export WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/myConf.conf	06:37
+perlDreamer	cd /data/WebGUI/t	06:38
+perlDreamer	prove i18n/ Help/	06:38
+perlDreamer	if that passes, you're golden	06:38
@preaction	but code format-wise, is it readable?	06:38
+perlDreamer	I'm so used to the big datastructure that the disambiguation is a little vague for me	06:38
@preaction	could probably use more comments	06:39
@preaction	tests pass, should I set CODE_COP?	06:41
+perlDreamer	no	06:42
+perlDreamer	CODE_COP implements my code scanning tests for i18n and setHelp	06:42
+perlDreamer	it's a mini PPI	06:42
+perlDreamer	very slow	06:42
+perlDreamer	I should inline both scans in one and then write out data to be used for both tests	06:42
@preaction	at any rate, they passed	06:43
+perlDreamer	then it's good Help	06:43
+perlDreamer	regardless of format	06:43
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+perlDreamer	preaction: can you take a look at this for a sec?	06:45
+perlDreamer	http://rafb.net/p/LWzTeM69.html	06:45
+perlDreamer	uh, no	06:45
@preaction	i remember that!	06:45
+perlDreamer	$self->get("dateSubmitted") eq $self->get("dateUpdated")	06:45
@preaction	looks like clean code	06:45
+perlDreamer	that one	06:45
+perlDreamer	I have tests that fail due to that all the time	06:45
@preaction	what Asset is that?	06:45
+perlDreamer	Post	06:46
+perlDreamer	Think about it this way instead	06:46
@preaction	they're epoch times no?	06:46
+perlDreamer	$self->get("dateSubmitted") - $self->get("dateUpdated")	06:46
+perlDreamer	epoch times	06:46
+perlDreamer	yes	06:46
+perlDreamer	If that difference > 0, that does it mean?	06:47
@preaction	what's the failure reasing?	06:47
@preaction	it means that it's been updated since it was submitted	06:47
@preaction	OR that the last time it was "updated" by something is after it was submitted	06:47
+perlDreamer	not always	06:47
@preaction	why not?	06:48
+perlDreamer	what if it was submitted at 0.99999999999999999999999 seconds but updated at 1.00000000000000000001 seconds	06:48
+perlDreamer	epoch times are integer seconds	06:48
@preaction	so they can be equal	06:48
+perlDreamer	but they can also be non-equal, and valid	06:48
@preaction	as long as dateUpdated is greater than or equal to dateSubmitted, it should be valid	06:49
+perlDreamer	what about editing posts?	06:49
@preaction	that should update the dateUpdated field, not the dateSubmitted field (imho)	06:50
@preaction	but isn't that already in assetData as "lastUpdated"?	06:50
@preaction	same with dateSubmitted, isn't that in asset as "creationDate"?	06:50
@preaction	i mean, if these fields do what they sound like they do	06:51
+perlDreamer	need to ask TMRFE	06:51
+perlDreamer	rizen: Thy presence is humbly requested	06:51
* perlDreamer mouths the arcane lingo		06:52
@preaction	shh. it's 11:00p	06:52
@rizen	yes sirs	06:52
@rizen	is the question what's the difference between dateSubmitted and dateUpdated?	06:52
+perlDreamer	In a Post, how are dateUpdated and dateSubmitted different from creationDate and lastUpdated?	06:52
@rizen	ah	06:52
@rizen	let's take dateUpdated and lastUpdated cuz it's eaiser	06:53
@rizen	easier	06:53
+perlDreamer	k	06:53
@rizen	dateUpdated is the time when the poster last did something to the post	06:53
@rizen	where lastUpdated is the time the post was last modified	06:54
@rizen	which could be by the system	06:54
@rizen	via workflows	06:54
@rizen	or any other asset access	06:54
+perlDreamer	they're when user level actions took place	06:54
+perlDreamer	I see	06:54
@rizen	yes	06:54
+perlDreamer	I went looking for another bug to fix	06:55
@rizen	dateSubmitted is the same for creation	06:55
+perlDreamer	and I found one where replies are not being counted	06:55
@rizen	however, currently in the system, there is no difference between the two	06:55
@rizen	dateSubmitted and creationDate	06:55
@rizen	i mean	06:55
+perlDreamer	I think it's due to this: return $self->get("dateSubmitted") eq $self->get("dateUpdated");	06:55
+perlDreamer	it reminds me of the failing tests due to truncated integer epoch times	06:56
@rizen	oooh, you should never rely on that	06:56
@rizen	or whoever write it	06:56
@rizen	wrote it	06:56
@rizen	which is probably me	06:56
+perlDreamer	I'm thinking a better way may be to count revisions?	06:56
+perlDreamer	but they may be system level changes	06:57
@rizen	counting revisions isn't good either	06:57
@rizen	because revisions can be deleted from the system	06:57
@rizen	during slough	06:57
@rizen	what is this check used for?	06:57
+perlDreamer	incrementing replies	06:57
@rizen	why does that have anything to do with replies?	06:58
+perlDreamer	sub commit in Post	06:58
+perlDreamer	notifies subscribers	06:58
+perlDreamer	and karma check and increment replies if new	06:58
gooeybot	check and increment replies if new has neutral karma	06:58
@rizen	i'm not seeing that in commit()	06:59
@rizen	are you sure it's not another method?	06:59
+perlDreamer	line 142 of Asset/Post.pm	06:59
@rizen	i know where the commit method is	06:59
@rizen	i'm saying i don't see that check	06:59
@rizen	there's no comparison of dateSubmitted to dateUpdated in Post::commit()	07:00
+perlDreamer	if ($self->isNew) -> quantifies the karma and incrementReplies	07:00
+perlDreamer	isNew does that check	07:00
@rizen	oh, isNew...	07:00
@rizen	why didn't you tell me that	07:00
+perlDreamer	I'm old	07:00
PedersenMJ	g'night all. it's early, but I've been needing more sleep lately. See y'all manana!	07:00
-!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui []		07:01
+perlDreamer	actually, we can test this directly.	07:01
+perlDreamer	can you do a query on PB.com?	07:01
+perlDreamer	this thread has 1 reply, but no counted replies	07:02
+perlDreamer	http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support/wiki-weirdness-and-browser-crash#UIXGb0g5I7SEUcGESmaj6w	07:02
@rizen	i think a better check would be this	07:02
+perlDreamer	if the dateUpdated and dateSubmitted are different, then that's definitely the problem	07:02
@rizen	$self->get("status") ne "approved" && $self->getTagCount == 1	07:02
@rizen	strike that	07:03
@rizen	this would be better	07:03
@rizen	$self->get("status") eq "pending" && $self->getTagCount == 1	07:03
+perlDreamer	if we edit a post is the status set back to pending?	07:04
@preaction	a revision is added, so tagCount is greater than one	07:04
@rizen	mysql> select dateSubmitted,dateUpdated from Post where assetId='UIXGb0g5I7SEUcGESmaj6w';	07:05
@rizen	+---------------+-------------+	07:05
@preaction	but i don't think that will work, isNew is only ever called after $self->SUPER::commit, so wouldn't "status" be approved?	07:05
@rizen	\| dateSubmitted \| dateUpdated \|	07:05
@rizen	+---------------+-------------+	07:05
@rizen	\| 1170202886 \| 1170202887 \|	07:05
@rizen	+---------------+-------------+	07:05
@rizen	1 row in set (0.00 sec)	07:05
+perlDreamer	yup	07:05
+perlDreamer	okay, I'll make the change	07:05
@rizen	that revision is pending	07:05
+perlDreamer	it is?	07:05
@rizen	yes the revision	07:05
gooeybot	the revision is, like, added, so tagCount is greater than one	07:05
@rizen	not the old one	07:05
@rizen	the new revision is pending	07:06
+perlDreamer	I'll add the new conditional. Do you also want an upgrade script to fix the replies?	07:06
@rizen	ok then don't check whether it's pending or not	07:07
@rizen	just check tag count	07:07
@preaction	am i lagging?	07:07
@rizen	i'm lagging in my reading	07:07
+perlDreamer	there was a system level lag, preaction	07:07
@preaction	oh, k	07:07
@rizen	so my responses are lagging	07:07
@rizen	hmmm. let's think this over	07:07
@rizen	before you make this change	07:08
+perlDreamer	oh	07:08
@rizen	maybe my new solution isn't so hot either	07:08
+perlDreamer	you always want to be reasonable and careful	07:08
+perlDreamer	you'll never break code doing that	07:08
@rizen	the problem with my new solution is if the post gets sent back for edits before posting	07:08
@rizen	i don't know if that creates a new version tag or reuses the old one	07:09
@rizen	it should reuse the old one	07:09
@rizen	but i don't know for sure	07:09
+perlDreamer	I'll make a post and ask for a preview	07:09
@rizen	preview won't do anything	07:09
@rizen	it doesn't actually submit the data	07:09
@rizen	on your local copy set up the cs to require approval	07:10
@rizen	then reject your post	07:11
@rizen	and edit it	07:11
@rizen	then approve it	07:11
@rizen	and see how many tags you have	07:11
+perlDreamer	I can't send emails from my box	07:15
@rizen	you don't need to	07:15
@rizen	check your inbox	07:15
+perlDreamer	it's empty	07:15
@rizen	from the admin console	07:15
@rizen	do you have spectre running?	07:15
+perlDreamer	up and running	07:16
@rizen	and did you commit your cs before making a post to it so that it knew to run the commit with approval workflow	07:16
+perlDreamer	no	07:16
@preaction	how did it allow you to make a post to it?	07:16
@rizen	cuz it already existed	07:16
patspam	WebGUI::Form::IntSlider.pm, line 146, calls WebGUI::Form::integer (lowercase) instead of WebGUI::Form::Integer (uppercase)	07:16
@preaction	oh	07:16
@rizen	he's just making an edit	07:16
patspam	giving me errors in my wobject	07:17
@rizen	patspam: doesn't matter	07:17
patspam	Couldn't call method doAdd on asset for url: home/portal/p2 Root cause: Can't locate object method "new" via package "WebGUI::Form::integer" (perhaps you forgot to load "WebGUI::Form::integer"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/IntSlider.pm line 146.	07:17
@rizen	oh, wait, it does matter in that case	07:17
patspam	heh	07:17
@rizen	it only doesn't matter in WebGUI::Form	07:17
@rizen	or WebGUI::HTMLForm	07:17
@rizen	but calling it directly it does	07:17
@rizen	i'll make the change in the core	07:18
patspam	ta	07:18
patspam	Couldn't call method doAdd on asset for url: home/portal/p2 Root cause: Can't locate object method "new" via package "WebGUI::Form::integer" (perhaps you forgot to load "WebGUI::Form::integer"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/IntSlider.pm line 146.	07:18
patspam	oops	07:18
patspam	double-paste	07:18
patspam	btw I'm not calling WebGUI::Form::integer directly, I'm calling IntSlider	07:18
@rizen	yeah, but intslider is calling it directly	07:19
@rizen	rather than going through WebGUI::FOrm	07:19
patspam	yep :)	07:19
@rizen	fixed in core	07:20
patspam	awesome, ta	07:23
@rizen	what is ta?	07:24
+perlDreamer	ta, like in ta-ta	07:25
@preaction	perlbot ta	07:25
+perlDreamer	how do I check the number of tags?	07:25
patspam	ha, no, it means thanks	07:25
@preaction	perlbot doesn't know	07:25
@preaction	$self->getTagCount	07:25
@preaction	or select count(*) from assetData where assetId=<your ID>;	07:25
@rizen	preaction, second way won't work	07:26
@rizen	without distinct	07:26
@preaction	?func=manageRevisions, however many revisions you have?	07:26
@rizen	and you should always use api	07:26
@preaction	of course, i was just thinking he was just checking this raw to make sure that $self->getTagsCount will work	07:26
+perlDreamer	2	07:27
@preaction	that's not the right answer :(	07:27
+perlDreamer	well, we can either change isNew or fix why the dateSubmitted and dateUpdated are different.	07:28
@preaction	what if there's only one approved version in the database, would that be as good isNew?	07:29
@preaction	perlDreamer: so basically most times i add something to i18n for an asset, i should add something to Help?	07:30
+perlDreamer	yes	07:31
@rizen	hmmm...what other ways can we determine if it isNew	07:31
+perlDreamer	the funny thing is it should work right	07:31
+perlDreamer	both dateUpdated and dateSubmitted are updated with the same timestamp	07:32
+perlDreamer	$now=time();	07:32
+perlDreamer	$newSelf->update({threadId=>$newSelf->getId, dateSubmitted=>$now});	07:32
+perlDreamer	$newSelf->update({	07:32
+perlDreamer	isHidden => 1,	07:32
+perlDreamer	dateUpdated=>$now,	07:32
+perlDreamer	});	07:32
@rizen	hmm	07:32
+perlDreamer	yeah	07:32
@rizen	well then maybe we shuld just fix it, like you said	07:33
@rizen	and leave isNew alone	07:33
@rizen	do you know at what point it's getting corrupted?	07:34
+perlDreamer	no	07:34
+perlDreamer	I can only see 1 thing that might happen	07:34
+perlDreamer	but it's bad	07:34
+perlDreamer	if the compiler optimized away $now and replaced it with time(), then you could get different calls in both places.	07:34
+perlDreamer	there's no way to fix that	07:34
+perlDreamer	neither dateUpdated nor dateSubmitted are changed anywhere else that I can find	07:35
@rizen	holy crap	07:35
@rizen	that's very bad	07:35
+perlDreamer	it can't be it	07:35
@rizen	how else is it off	07:36
+perlDreamer	what else touches the Post table after addRevision?	07:36
patspam	hmm setting minimum to anything other than 0 on IntSlider seems to break it, same for HexSlider	07:37
@rizen	processPropertiesFromPost()	07:37
@rizen	postProcess()	07:37
@rizen	patspam, then report a bug	07:38
patspam	will do	07:38
@rizen	patspam, also, check out the use of the code in the image stuff	07:38
@rizen	that's where they're used in webgui	07:38
@rizen	but i think they start at 9	07:38
@rizen	0	07:38
+perlDreamer	nope and nope	07:39
@rizen	perlDreamer: that is ignorant and racist	07:40
+perlDreamer	dateSubmitted and dateUpdated only appear to be written in addRevision	07:40
+perlDreamer	"nope" is racist?	07:40
@rizen	yup	07:40
@rizen	you're clearly trying to keep my people down	07:41
+perlDreamer	back to the keyboard, codeSlave!	07:41
@rizen	i don't know man	07:42
+perlDreamer	Let me try something out.	07:42
+perlDreamer	I'll pastebin it	07:42
patspam	fixed it, the javascript fn $slider.setMinimum() at line 325 of Slider.pm doesn't like having its argument quoted	07:46
patspam	strangely $slider.setMaximum() doesn't care	07:46
+perlDreamer	rizen: http://rafb.net/p/AmHuwp99.html	07:50
@rizen	isn't line 3 of modified broken	07:52
+perlDreamer	better hope not. I didn't touch that part :)	07:52
+perlDreamer	If dateUpdated and dateSubmitted are made on the same update, it should use the same time for both.	07:53
@rizen	it's different	07:53
@rizen	it's different between the two versions	07:53
+perlDreamer	lines 3 and 18 are the same	07:54
@rizen	$newSelf->update({threadId=>$newSelf->getId, dateSubmitted=>$now}, dateUpdated=>$now);	07:54
@rizen	$newSelf->update({threadId=>$newSelf->getId, dateSubmitted=>$now});	07:54
@rizen	see hhow they are different	07:54
@rizen	i have them flip flopped	07:54
@rizen	line 3 of modified	07:54
@rizen	not line 1	07:54
@rizen	line 20 on pastebin	07:54
@rizen	vs line 5	07:55
@rizen	sorry, didn't even notice that pastebin had numbers	07:55
+perlDreamer	okay, I see it	07:55
+perlDreamer	that can be fixed, but the concept should still be good	07:55
@rizen	refine it even further	07:55
@rizen	get rid of all the updates	07:55
@rizen	just create variables	07:55
@rizen	and do 1 update at the end	07:56
@rizen	or a hashref	07:56
gooeybot	a hashref is, like, slick	07:56
+perlDreamer	okay	07:56
@rizen	your idea will work if the optimization theory is correct	07:57
+perlDreamer	if it's correct, I'll be scared	07:57
@rizen	the shitty part is there's no real way to test that theory	07:57
+perlDreamer	it takes time. If we don't have any more funky reply posts then it's fixed	07:57
@rizen	i hate those kinds of fixes	07:58
+perlDreamer	I'll work on this. Let's sit on it overnight and think about it.	07:58
+perlDreamer	Tomorrow morning we'll be frustrated with doing support and much more likely to understand what's going on	07:59
@preaction	i don't get your logic, but i like what what you said	07:59
+perlDreamer	rizen: http://rafb.net/p/hkvfYO28.html	08:07
@rizen	2 changes	08:08
@rizen	dateSubmitted only gets set if you're in the first if	08:08
@rizen	same with threadId	08:08
@rizen	want me to rewrite or do you get me?	08:09
+perlDreamer	I get you	08:09
+perlDreamer	dateSubmitted should be dateUpdated, to preserve the original	08:09
@rizen	don't think you get me	08:09
+perlDreamer	you better rewrite	08:10
@rizen	rewriting	08:10
@rizen	http://rafb.net/p/WIQfV812.html	08:13
@rizen	methinks that's better	08:13
@rizen	do you see?	08:14
+perlDreamer	yes, but I was trying to keep the reads of $now to be very close	08:15
@rizen	or did i screw up?	08:15
@rizen	we're talking ms here, cuz the update is what takes a long time	08:15
@rizen	i suppose get parent could take a long time	08:15
@rizen	let me reorder	08:16
@rizen	http://rafb.net/p/SgVx2N67.html	08:17
@rizen	can't get much closer	08:17
+perlDreamer	no	08:17
@rizen	the only other way to fix this	08:18
@rizen	is to set dateSubmitted	08:18
@rizen	update	08:18
@rizen	then read the dateSubmitted into dateUpdated	08:18
@rizen	and update again	08:18
@rizen	which is much slower	08:18
+perlDreamer	but all of this depends on my crazy idea being right	08:18
+perlDreamer	and in that case slower doesn't matter	08:18
+perlDreamer	it used to call update 3 times	08:18
@rizen	true	08:18
+perlDreamer	we could subtract dateSubmitted from dateUpdated, take the abs and then make sure it's less than or equal to 1	08:21
+perlDreamer	abs(dateSubmitted-dateUpdated) <= 1	08:21
@preaction	what if 2 seconds pass? or for some reason 3?	08:23
@preaction	system lag perhaps?	08:23
+perlDreamer	you're right, that's just a bandaid	08:23
+perlDreamer	it should be the same time	08:23
+perlDreamer	this whole solution is predicated on the compiler optimizing $now back into time()	08:24
@preaction	i don't see why it would	08:24
+perlDreamer	well, we know that dateSubmitted != dateUpdated in the db	08:24
@preaction	but then again, perl does strange things	08:24
+perlDreamer	it's just a question of how it got that way	08:24
+perlDreamer	Asset::Post::addRevision is the only place in the codebase where those variables are set	08:25
+perlDreamer	I grep'ed the whole thing to check	08:25
+perlDreamer	preaction: I'm getting ready to crash. Any last second doc questions?	08:27
@preaction	instead of setting them both to $now, set one to $now and then the other to that one? durno	08:27
@preaction	um... not that i know of	08:28
+perlDreamer	okay, I'm outta here	08:30
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 01 11:38:44 2007
--- Log opened Thu Feb 01 11:43:54 2007
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@khenn	wow I didn't get dropped?	16:52
@khenn	amazing	16:53
@khenn	anyone around this morning?	16:53
-!- khenn is now known as khenn_afk		16:54
@preaction	morning	17:11
pjesi_	afternoon	17:11
@preaction	LIES!	17:11
Meatbop	mornin	17:11
@preaction	khenn was just asking what's new	17:11
xdanger	afternoon	17:12
@preaction	names	17:12
@preaction	er...	17:12
xdanger	preaction: was it you who wrote the new calendar?	17:12
@preaction	yes'm	17:12
@preaction	i accept full responsibility and will commit seppuku immediately	17:12
* preaction SEPPUKU!		17:12
xdanger	Is there a way to list events for more than a month?	17:12
xdanger	seppuku?-)	17:13
@preaction	no, it was decided that the reason for that was poor navigation	17:13
xdanger	sounds like something for anime...	17:13
@preaction	(ninja's ritual suicide when they fail)	17:13
xdanger	I have a client with a training schedule... they have like 1-3 a month.. so the old calendar was great...	17:14
xdanger	http://www.datapartner.fi/en/news--events/events/workshops	17:14
@preaction	add an RFE, the code for it shouldn't be exceedingly hard	17:14
xdanger	we'll.. I was going to upgrade today...	17:15
xdanger	er...	17:15
xdanger	I'll have a look at the code, and if I have any idea of how to do it, I'll just make a patch and send that to you ;)	17:15
@preaction	how good are you at SQLReports?	17:15
@preaction	xdanger: when you look at the code, get the latest SVN, i did a lot of code formatting updates to make it easier to read	17:16
@khenn_afk	you can template 3 months at a time using HTML::Template::Expr now	17:16
@preaction	khenn_afk: how?	17:16
@khenn_afk	I'm still afk	17:16
@khenn_afk	set a var	17:16
@khenn_afk	and do a % 3 on it	17:17
@preaction	3 months? the Calendar does not give three months, the EventsCalendar did, the new one does not	17:17
@khenn_afk	oh I see	17:17
@khenn_afk	you only get 1 month at a time	17:17
@khenn_afk	nm	17:17
@khenn_afk	back to afk status	17:17
@preaction	remember, future consideration?	17:17
@preaction	k	17:17
@preaction	xdanger: the best way to do it is to start sending an explicit "endDate" parameter to viewMonth/viewWeek/viewDay, and those are called from the main "view" method	17:19
@preaction	xdanger: so the "view" method will have to get "endDate" from the url params, and/or from a configuration value	17:19
@preaction	i anticipate a good 3-4 hours of hacking to put that feature in	17:20
@preaction	but i've got bugs to fix and a support bugfix to make on the Export HTML feature	17:20
@preaction	i'll be working until 8:00p CT, so if you have questions about the calendar just ask	17:21
@preaction	on a different topic, this website is absolutely beautiful	17:21
ckotil	link?	17:22
Meatbop	which site are you checking out ?	17:22
ckotil	heh. im working in a version tag that has ~ 5 pages of changes. i cant wait to commit it sometime today. one of our customers recently underwent a name change.	17:23
pjesi_	xdanger: how do you provide the different languages?	17:24
pjesi_	does each tree use different i18n?	17:25
@snapcount	Doug: I'm going to help you with Calendar stuff if you want as soon as I'm done with EMS	17:26
@snapcount	I think it's the biggest hurdle left on the bug list aside from EMS	17:26
@snapcount	err	17:26
@snapcount	preaction:	17:27
@snapcount	sorry	17:27
xdanger	pjesi_: no, there are just different branches for each language..	17:27
@snapcount	I want an empty list, it would be so freaking awesome to clear the bug list	17:27
bopbop_	CB++	17:27
xdanger	must go to late lunch now -->	17:27
@snapcount	that too	17:27
@snapcount	lunch? you live in Europe I guess?	17:28
pjesi_	xdanger: what about the template labels?	17:28
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@preaction	snapcount: thanks for the offer, there are some large ones that will be problematic, the main ones being an i18n audit, and the Help files. I'm going to submit what I have now, and then update the status of the existing bugs	17:35
@preaction	I have an assignment from DoS to fix the Export HTML thingy, and then I'm back on Calendar bugs	17:36
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Jamie] by snapcount		17:36
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@preaction	so i'm here, but i'm away, busy, and will get to your requests for my presence later	17:36
-!- mode/#webgui [+o Meatbop] by snapcount		17:36
@preaction	to anyone who wants to work on calendar bugs: i've wrote some pretty detailed descriptions on what exactly needs to be done to fix them	17:48
@preaction	i'm moving to the DoS assignment and i'll probably be back around 1p	17:49
@Meatbop	god speed	17:49
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@rizen	sorry guys, been on support calls all morning	17:58
@rizen	still am	17:59
@preaction	when i'm exporting HTML for an asset, do I really need to open a new session for each asset I export? can't I just make one new session and point the output to the correct file each time?	18:04
* preaction got stuck fixing Drake's code, but this is paid-for work		18:05
@rizen	yes you need a new one	18:09
@preaction	k	18:10
@rizen	because otherwise certain flags get set	18:10
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+perlDreamer	morning guys	18:36
@preaction	morning	18:36
+perlDreamer	how's the calendar hacking?	18:37
@preaction	stalled for a priority bugfix on the AssetExportHtml feature	18:37
@preaction	but this time, i think i can make it work for 99.9% of cases	18:37
+perlDreamer	cool	18:37
+perlDreamer	any bug that gets fixed	18:37
+perlDreamer	just write a test for it so we'll know in advance in the future if it breaks	18:38
@preaction	i submitted my barely updated Calendar docs, and described in detail the things that need to be fixed on the Calendar in the appropriate bug threads	18:38
+perlDreamer	I was going to take a hack at the little Slider bug	18:38
+perlDreamer	and then hoping to do some more $now/Post reply stuff	18:38
@preaction	i'll try. i believe i have to fix the test roy wrote for it, since i changed what the sub does	18:38
@preaction	you didn't get that last night? you were close, no?	18:38
+perlDreamer	close, but it still feels wrong	18:39
+perlDreamer	Perl should not do that	18:39
@preaction	i don't understand it myself, do the #perl people have anything to say on the issue?	18:39
+perlDreamer	I haven't asked over there.	18:39
@preaction	they know quite a bit, some internals hackers in there	18:40
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@snapcount	perlDreamer: how does the linking between a template and the help icon work	18:49
+perlDreamer	There's no direct linking	18:50
@snapcount	I want the help for the template they are viewing to pop up when they click the icon, not the generic help for all templates	18:50
+perlDreamer	oh	18:50
+perlDreamer	I don't think there's anyway to do that	18:50
+perlDreamer	that would be good though!	18:50
+perlDreamer	real good	18:50
@preaction	perhaps something in the right-side list of stuff "Help for this template"	18:50
+perlDreamer	In fact, help topic awareness is one of the requirements for the template variable editor	18:50
@snapcount	ok... put it on wish list then... I thought I was doing something wrong	18:50
@snapcount	=)	18:51
+perlDreamer	It's RFE-able	18:51
@snapcount	I like that term	18:51
@snapcount	you should trademark it	18:51
@snapcount	pdc?	18:51
@snapcount	gooeybot: what is pDC?	18:51
gooeybot	i don't know, snapcount	18:51
@snapcount	didn't you teach him that?	18:51
@preaction	snapcount: quick, what do you expect to happen when you make a url "index.html/" when you export an asset with that url?	18:51
@snapcount	oh well	18:51
+perlDreamer	snapcount: that was perlbot	18:52
@preaction	perlbot pdc	18:52
+perlDreamer	perlbot: what is pDC?	18:52
perlbot	Perl Dreamer's Association of associated thoughts and references that are usually puzzling and always genius for the solving of complex problems in the language of thy camel our lord as spoken by WebGUI the savior of all things cool	18:52
perlbot	I already have an entry for what	18:52
@snapcount	create a file called index.html in the starting export directory	18:52
@preaction	gooeybot: pdc is Perl Dreamer's Association of associated thoughts and references that are usually puzzling and always genius for the solving of complex problems in the language of thy camel our lord as spoken by WebGUI the savior of all things cool	18:52
gooeybot	OK, preaction.	18:52
@preaction	pdc?	18:52
gooeybot	pdc is Perl Dreamer's Association of associated thoughts and references that are usually puzzling and always genius for the solving of complex problems in the language of thy camel our lord as spoken by WebGUI the savior of all things cool	18:52
@preaction	snapcount: so trailing /'s should just be ignored	18:53
+perlDreamer	gooeybot: RFE-able is That idea is worthy of an RFE. The term is trademarked by perlDreamer Consulting.	18:53
gooeybot	OK, perlDreamer.	18:53
@snapcount	sure... I don't even think WebGUI will keep it anyways	18:53
+perlDreamer	oy, I'm a sophist	18:53
@preaction	k, sounds good	18:53
@snapcount	if you set a url to home/	18:53
@snapcount	it will change it to home	18:53
@snapcount	pretty sure anyway	18:53
@snapcount	I was probably over zealous in my test cases =P	18:54
@preaction	i've narrowed your _translate sub to two cases: one with . and one without ., i'm updating the tests and once they pass i'll fix the ordering of the export	18:54
@snapcount	sweet	18:54
@snapcount	nice work man	18:54
+perlDreamer	um, AssetExportHtml is broken	18:54
@snapcount	yeah	18:54
@snapcount	I broke it	18:54
@preaction	it's been broken for a long-ass time	18:54
@snapcount	but it was broke before I broke it too	18:54
+perlDreamer	Failed to require package 'WebGUI::Session'. Reason: 'Global symbol "$assetSession" requires explicit package name at /data/WebGUI/lib//WebGUI/AssetExportHtml.pm line 148.	18:54
+perlDreamer	Global symbol "$assetSession" requires explicit package name at /data/WebGUI/lib//WebGUI/AssetExportHtml.pm line 149.	18:54
@snapcount	I just broke it different	18:54
+perlDreamer	not that kind of broke :)	18:54
@snapcount	that wasn't me	18:55
+perlDreamer	If I patch that, (needing my) will I break anyone's commit?	18:55
@snapcount	someone else gets credit for that	18:55
@snapcount	preaction is the one working on it	18:55
@preaction	that was me, that's fixed	18:56
@preaction	let me update SVN now	18:56
+perlDreamer	thanks, man	18:56
@snapcount	perlDreamer: the title of my new help page is not showing up in the help index... what makes that work?	18:57
+perlDreamer	that's usually a broken i18n link	18:57
+perlDreamer	cd /data/WebGUI/t; prove Help/ i18n/	18:57
@snapcount	I need the perlDreamer rosetta stone	19:00
@snapcount	label: Asset_EventManagementSystem->errorLoop inside Asset_EventManagementSystem->ems checkout template->variables'	19:00
@snapcount	what does that mean?	19:00
+perlDreamer	that means that it wasn't able to do a lookup on the errorLoop variable inside the Asset_EMS ems checkout template	19:00
+perlDreamer	that error message could definitely use some help	19:02
@snapcount	a lookup?	19:02
@snapcount	a lookup of what and where is it looking?	19:02
@snapcount	errorLoop inside i18n?	19:02
+perlDreamer	it is trying to do this: $i18n->get('errorLoop', 'Asset_EMS');	19:02
@snapcount	ok	19:02
@snapcount	ty	19:02
@snapcount	so there has to be an i18n entry for every 'name' key inside the help file?	19:05
@snapcount	I thought that was simply the name of the template variable... so why would that be i18n?	19:05
+perlDreamer	It's a shortcut	19:05
@snapcount	it's the same regardless of what language	19:05
+perlDreamer	The long form is name => 'myName', description => 'description i18n entry'	19:06
+perlDreamer	if, however, the i18n key myName isn't already being used, then you can omit the description and the Help system will look up the "descriptive i18n entry" using myName as the key.	19:07
@snapcount	so the 'name' in the help file is the key to the description of that variable inside the i18n file	19:08
+perlDreamer	it can be	19:08
+perlDreamer	that's the shortcut method	19:08
@snapcount	and if you specify a 'description' key in the help file, 'name' is ignored, and 'description' is used for the lookup?	19:09
+perlDreamer	yes	19:09
+perlDreamer	there is also 1 other key that you can set	19:09
+perlDreamer	required => 1	19:09
@snapcount	so, if you specify 'description' name does absolutely nothing then	19:09
+perlDreamer	well, it is used for the "name" of the template variable. But that's all	19:09
@snapcount	meaning the name thats displayed to the user	19:10
+perlDreamer	yes	19:10
@snapcount	no translation	19:10
+perlDreamer	right	19:10
@snapcount	ok... I think I got it then	19:10
@snapcount	thanks	19:10
xdanger	pjesi_: I use If macro heavyly on the multi-language sites...	19:12
xdanger	or create a different site if it gets to complicated... like this: http://en.luovapaja.fi/ vs. http://luovapaja.fi/	19:14
@snapcount	perlDreamer: the tests are passing but I see nothing in the index	19:16
+perlDreamer	Inside the EMS topic or in the index?	19:16
@snapcount	the index list of all help topics	19:16
@snapcount	do I need to set the CODE_COP variable?	19:17
+perlDreamer	no	19:17
@snapcount	k	19:17
+perlDreamer	CODE_COP does code level i18n and setHelp scanning	19:17
+perlDreamer	look at the HTML source for the page and look to see if there's an empty href where the entry should be	19:17
+perlDreamer	or do a commit and I'll have a look at it	19:17
+perlDreamer	or both	19:17
@snapcount	does there have to be an i18n key that matches with the main key to the entry in the help file?	19:18
+perlDreamer	like a title and a body entry in the help file? yes	19:18
+perlDreamer	otherwise there's nothing to link to	19:18
@snapcount	I have title and body	19:18
@snapcount	I was asking about the one above it	19:18
@snapcount	that contains everything for the entry	19:18
@snapcount	ok... I'll have another quick look and commit to see if you see my snafu	19:19
+perlDreamer	okay	19:19
@snapcount	I have to help out with support in like 60 seconds =)	19:19
@snapcount	doh!	19:20
@snapcount	found it... I had the tile set to Checkout Template	19:20
@snapcount	so it was there... just not where I thought it should be	19:20
+perlDreamer	Hmmm... maybe i should add a duplicate check to the Help test	19:20
@snapcount	it's now EMS Checkout Template	19:20
@snapcount	user error... my bad	19:20
+perlDreamer	It would show up correctly in the chapter	19:20
@snapcount	thx	19:20
@snapcount	everything seems right but the formatting is screwy for the tmpl vars in the loop	19:21
@snapcount	I'll check it in can you take a look?	19:22
+perlDreamer	sure	19:22
@snapcount	ty	19:22
@snapcount	ok it's checked in	19:31
@snapcount	thanks perlDreamer	19:31
+perlDreamer	np, man.	19:31
@preaction	what are Whitespace.t tests and is failure okay?	19:40
@preaction	i decided to run the tests before i committed this change (like a good boy), and Whitespace.t failed	19:41
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@preaction	pinging perlDreamer	19:43
@preaction	SYN?	19:44
+perlDreamer	brb	19:46
@preaction	nevermind, figured it out	19:48
ckotil	If i wanted to hack up the asset manager a little bit; by adding a new colum <meta data> . Where would i look to find the javascript code that creates the html for the asset manager?	19:48
@preaction	the got: 'XX' is the line number of the error	19:48
@preaction	ckotil: why?	19:48
+perlDreamer	ckotil: Asset.pm	19:48
@preaction	this doesn't sound like a good idea :(	19:48
ckotil	heh.	19:48
+perlDreamer	preaction, I already committed a fix for the whitespace	19:48
@preaction	oh, crap	19:48
@preaction	ok	19:48
ckotil	well, im just tossing around a couple ideas in my head and that was one of them.	19:48
@preaction	well, i'll merge then	19:49
ckotil	we're going to attempt to use webgui as a document mangager	19:49
ckotil	one of the views we've been thinking of is to use the asset manager. but want to be able to see meta data, or a description of the file.	19:49
ckotil	s/views/interfaces	19:50
ckotil	or i might create a new folder asset template	19:50
@preaction	ckotil: how about instead of adding a different column for the data, add another row that can be expanded/collapsed with a javascript image button	19:51
greghacke	I would still like to be able to use the Metadata: Summary from assets as a tmpl_var	19:51
ckotil	another row?	19:51
+perlDreamer	how about we template that sucker?	19:51
ckotil	each asset gets has 1 row	19:51
ckotil	template the asset manager!	19:51
@preaction	perlDreamer: might be a more permanent solution	19:52
+perlDreamer	greghacke: all the metadata is available in every asset template	19:52
ckotil	greghacke: is metadata summary differnet from metadata?	19:52
@preaction	ckotil: basically this: + [] 1 <name> <whatever> <more columns>	19:52
ckotil	yeah just tmpl_var <meta_data_name>	19:52
+perlDreamer	<tmpl_var meta_data_name>	19:53
ckotil	ah, so hit the + and a new row pops up?	19:53
@preaction	ckotil: clicking the + will show the row beneath is, which has a colspan over them all and has "description: <blah> metadata: <blah>"	19:53
ckotil	nice.	19:53
ckotil	yeah i like that.	19:53
ckotil	thx	19:53
greghacke	so... <tmpl_var summary> for the summary section of the summary area of a page or article. my intent is to actually query some of this data in an sql report	19:54
+perlDreamer	snapcount: the formatting looks okay to me. What are you seeing?	20:01
@snapcount	looking at it again I see what it is	20:03
@snapcount	isError is bolded	20:03
@snapcount	and wraps to the second line	20:03
@snapcount	so it kind of runs together with the loop variable	20:03
+perlDreamer	which browser are you using?	20:05
ckotil	preaction: while it would be real nice to write some new javascript into asset.pm so that we can use the asset manager as the interface for our file repository/DMS , i think im gonna just create a new folder asset template.	20:05
ckotil	Im looking in Help: Folder Template, and im not seeing anything about metadata.	20:06
ckotil	anyone know if metadata is part of tmpl_var for folder asseet?	20:06
+perlDreamer	metadata is automatically added to all asset templates	20:06
ckotil	perfect. thanks	20:06
+perlDreamer	it's only recently been documented.	20:06
@snapcount	perlDreamer: FF	20:08
@snapcount	it's not a big deal, more of an aesthetic thing	20:08
+perlDreamer	it looks okay to me in Mozilla 1.4 (urk). Maybe we could have Meatbop look at it?	20:08
greghacke	what broswer you all need?	20:09
+perlDreamer	it's uncommitted docs	20:09
greghacke	ah, understand.	20:09
@Meatbop	trying to catch up on what I'm being asked to look at...	20:09
@Meatbop	been on something else, can I get a sum-up?	20:10
+perlDreamer	snapcount's seeing weird things with the template variable displays in the Help	20:10
+perlDreamer	but the code's not released yet, so we can't just point you at a page	20:10
@Meatbop	screenshot would be enough for the time being	20:11
+perlDreamer	it uses <DL>'s	20:11
+perlDreamer	ckotil: I lied	20:25
+perlDreamer	it isn't documented	20:25
+perlDreamer	I'll fix that right now	20:25
ckotil	between you and me, Its OK.	20:26
@snapcount	Meatbop: I sent you a screen shot	20:28
@snapcount	via email	20:28
@Meatbop	k	20:29
@Meatbop	so i take it that error is supposed to be at the same indent as errorLoop?	20:30
+perlDreamer	no	20:30
+perlDreamer	I don't think so	20:30
+perlDreamer	error is in the loop	20:31
+perlDreamer	so it should be indented	20:31
+perlDreamer	but I haven't seen the snapshot	20:33
@Meatbop	basically the indented portion could use a line break above it.	20:34
@Meatbop	it looks just a little fugly butting up against the line right above it	20:34
+perlDreamer	what's the best way to do unfuglify it?	20:35
@Meatbop	heh	20:35
@Meatbop	snap, can you sent me the html so I can actually see what it's doing?	20:35
@Meatbop	i'll be better able to make a suggestion	20:35
+perlDreamer	done	20:36
@Meatbop	well that was quick :)	20:37
+perlDreamer	it's my bad templating	20:38
@snapcount	this proxy bug is ticking me off	20:38
@snapcount	I'm going to go eat something before I knaw the top of my monitor off	20:39
@snapcount	half eaten company owned mac book pro does not a happy rizen make	20:39
+perlDreamer	well, it _is_ an Apple	20:39
@snapcount	lol	20:39
@rizen	who's eating your laptop?	20:40
+perlDreamer	proxy bugs	20:40
@rizen	ah	20:40
+perlDreamer	have you had any epiphanies about the post reply dateUpdated/dateSubmitted bug?	20:40
@rizen	nop	20:42
@rizen	nope	20:42
@rizen	snapcount, start up spectre on your box	20:42
@rizen	do a ps	20:42
+perlDreamer	preaction suggested that we hop over to #perl and ask about the compiler optimization	20:42
@rizen	oh crap	20:42
@rizen	youc an't run spectre on your box can you?	20:43
+perlDreamer	rizen: snapcount is away	20:43
+perlDreamer	eating	20:43
@rizen	bah	20:43
@Meatbop	I think just a small css tweak will make that look good perlDreamer. Going to send it back to you with the change.	20:46
+perlDreamer	thanks	20:46
+perlDreamer	I'll be AFK for a while, but I'll get the tweak committed today	20:47
greghacke	who is Meatbop?	20:47
@preaction	steve swanson	20:48
greghacke	oh, hellow steve	20:48
greghacke	dang, i cannot spell today.	20:48
@Meatbop	s'all right	20:48
@Meatbop	i can't spell most days	20:48
greghacke	dealing with data normalization. sucks. working a style sheet at the same time	20:48
@Meatbop	sent the html pd. going to be afk for a little bit	20:52
@khenn	who wrote the weather data asset?	20:55
@khenn	anyone remember?	20:55
@preaction	i thought you said you did?	20:55
@khenn	nope	20:55
@preaction	then i don't know	20:55
@khenn	must have been Matthew Wilson	20:55
@preaction	but hum a few bars and i'll fake it	20:55
@preaction	bbl, eating	21:02
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@snapcount	I'm back	21:14
@snapcount	what did you need rizen	21:14
@snapcount	?	21:14
@rizen	are you capable of running spectre directly on your mac?	21:15
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@snapcount	no	21:18
@snapcount	just in a vm	21:18
@rizen	snap are you running spectre on your vm now?	21:31
@snapcount	yes	21:45
@snapcount	rizen: do you need me to test something?	21:45
@khenn	anyone know of a Perl module to convert HTML encodings like   to ASCII encoding   ?	21:50
@preaction	are you going to run it willy-nilly? in most cases the named version is easier to understand	21:51
@khenn	it's for RSS	21:51
@preaction	HTML::Entities	21:51
@preaction	maybe?	21:51
@khenn	RSS 2.0 doesn't seem to always support &xxx;	21:52
@khenn	but it does always support the ASCII value	21:52
@preaction	because it's xml instead of html	21:52
@khenn	right	21:52
@khenn	so I want to convert them all	21:52
@preaction	khenn: HTML::Entities, decode the vars, and then use encode_entities_numeric	21:55
@khenn	yep	21:56
@khenn	I think that may work	21:56
@khenn	gonna test it out	21:56
@khenn	thanks	21:56
@preaction	the thing is, it's using the hex, which is in HTML but is it in XML?	21:56
@khenn	is it hex?	21:57
@preaction	the docs say so	21:57
@preaction	it uses the &#x<hex number>	21:57
@khenn	yeah	21:57
@khenn	I see it now	21:57
@khenn	hmm	21:57
@khenn	I'm not sure if that will work or not	21:57
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@preaction	there are a couple instances of the hex entity being used in the XML recommendation	22:00
@khenn	yeah I think it will work	22:00
@khenn	I'm gonna test it	22:00
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@snapcount	hmm	22:05
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@khenn	heh	22:08
@khenn	well	22:08
@khenn	that didn't work =p	22:08
ckotil	Anyone know the tmpl_var to display the asset type?	22:38
@preaction	tmpl_var className might work	22:39
+perlDreamer	But it will be like WebGUI::Asset:: ...	22:39
+perlDreamer	Not just Snippet, Folder, etc.	22:39
* ckotil hrms		22:39
ckotil	yah.	22:39
+perlDreamer	use javascript to split it and return the last value?	22:40
ckotil	yeah, gonna have to.	22:40
+perlDreamer	write a macro to trim it?	22:40
ckotil	ill go the js route	22:40
+perlDreamer	that's the cool thing about you ckotil.	22:40
+perlDreamer	you're like a bulldozer	22:40
+perlDreamer	you just get it done.	22:40
ckotil	heh. its my job	22:41
ckotil	either that or get fired	22:41
ckotil	tho im starting to get some pull around here	22:41
@khenn	does anyone know if it's possible to call a function from within a regular expression?	22:41
greghacke	my job right now is to mornalize 120000 records of inventory. wanna trade?	22:41
+perlDreamer	s/(stuff)/function(stuff)/e;	22:41
@khenn	ah	22:41
@khenn	e	22:41
@khenn	thanks	22:41
ckotil	greghacke: can you write a script for it?	22:42
greghacke	i wish. each item was hand entered into a flat file. about 60% are duplicats of already existing items but there was no normalization in the data entry so one product may be entered differently for each and every item in the inventory	22:43
greghacke	i scripted the first 6 passes - now i'm going through by hand	22:43
* ckotil shudders		22:43
+perlDreamer	thanks for the CSS Meatbop. It looks better	22:47
+perlDreamer	I closed the IntSlider bug	23:02
+perlDreamer	added Meatbop's CSS	23:02
@rizen	i'm working on the spectre needs to be restarted all the time bug	23:03
+perlDreamer	that's your queueing system changes?	23:03
@rizen	yup	23:03
+perlDreamer	I feel like we're keeping pace with bugs, but that's all	23:03
@rizen	yup	23:03
@rizen	however, most of the pb staff has been on support all day	23:03
@rizen	including me	23:04
@rizen	i've only had 30 minutes to work on bugs so far today	23:04
+perlDreamer	preaction: any suggestions for etiquette over on #perl?	23:04
+perlDreamer	rizen: I'm going to hop over to #perl and ask about our optimization/compiler bug	23:04
@rizen	cool	23:04
@rizen	this ought to be interesting	23:04
@preaction	just ask, don't ask to ask, give as much info as possible, the best question i can think of to ask is this:	23:04
@preaction	something...	23:05
@preaction	something like: if I have '$now = time(); $a = $now;' and later '$b = $now', is there any reason why $a != $b?	23:06
@preaction	otherwise, as long as you avoid the big ones: asking to ask and xy problems, they're generally friendly	23:07
@preaction	perlbot xy problem	23:07
perlbot	They ask how to do X, but that's because they really want to do Y but think X will get them there and most of the time they are WRONG	23:07
+perlDreamer	all right. I'll give it a shot.	23:07
+perlDreamer	That was well laid out, I'm just going to copy and paste you over there.	23:08
@preaction	i'm there too, so i can keep half-an-eye on the situation	23:09
@preaction	merlyn's there, so i would expect brevity over politeness, but he is a Perl God	23:09
@preaction	(Randall Schwartz himself)	23:09
+perlDreamer	I know Randall	23:10
@preaction	then i'll stfu	23:10
@preaction	anyway, test-case how?	23:10
+perlDreamer	hmmm	23:14
+perlDreamer	not exactly going swimmingly	23:14
@preaction	automated asset insertion using the API? force it into causing a problem?	23:15
@preaction	if you can't do it within, say, 5000 times, maybe it's not there?	23:15
+perlDreamer	it _is_ there. We just don't understand how it got to be there.	23:16
+perlDreamer	http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support/wiki-weirdness-and-browser-crash#UIXGb0g5I7SEUcGESmaj6w	23:17
+perlDreamer	JT did a query and found dateUpdated and dateSubmitted to be different	23:18
+perlDreamer	that'd be in the IRC log from last night	23:18
@preaction	eh, eventually i usually ask "anyone else know how a variable can be two different values after being initialized with time()"	23:18
@preaction	otherwise, stress test, this is happening fairly often it should be easy to reproduce	23:19
@preaction	maybe instead of using $now that second time, use $properties->{dateSubmitted} or something	23:19
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+perlDreamer	I'll try the stress test route	23:24
ckotil	doh. i didnt realize className outputs the contaner asset	23:26
+perlDreamer	you want the class of something in the folder loop?	23:27
ckotil	yes	23:27
+perlDreamer	Is an icon okay?	23:28
ckotil	i have the icon	23:28
ckotil	just need the name now ;]	23:28
+perlDreamer	Have you tried 'type'?	23:28
ckotil	i havent.	23:29
ckotil	thanks pd	23:29
+perlDreamer	np	23:29
+perlDreamer	btw, that will be the short name, not the class name	23:30
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ckotil	yah. that way i dont have to strip it	23:30
ckotil	thx for clarifying	23:30
+perlDreamer	I'll add that to the docs.	23:31
+perlDreamer	I seem to be saying that more and more as I hang out in here.	23:31
@preaction	that's why we like you!	23:32
@preaction	<3 perlDreamer	23:32
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+perlDreamer	what is "<3" ?	23:32
ckotil	a heart	23:32
@preaction	perlbot <3	23:32
perlbot	bullshit, I'm way more than 3	23:32
@snapcount	omg	23:32
+perlDreamer	gooeybot < 2	23:33
gooeybot	perlDreamer: what?	23:33
+perlDreamer	catch a clue, gb	23:33
+perlDreamer	gooeybot <3	23:33
gooeybot	perlDreamer: sorry...	23:33
* preaction wacks gooeybot with a cluestick		23:34
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@khenn	who "fixed" RSSFromParent?	23:36
@khenn	anyone know?	23:37
+perlDreamer	svn blame?	23:37
@khenn	yeah	23:37
@khenn	good idea	23:37
@preaction	khenn: what did i break?	23:37
@khenn	not sure if you broke anything	23:37
+perlDreamer	he hasn't said what's broken.	23:38
@khenn	someone did this :	23:38
@preaction	the "fixed" kinda tipped me off to something being wrong	23:38
@khenn	if(UNIVERSAL::isa($item, 'WebGUI::Asset')) {	23:38
@khenn	...	23:38
@preaction	Drake	23:38
+perlDreamer	that's original code	23:38
@khenn	} elsif(ref $item eq 'HASH') {	23:38
@khenn	then there's a comment :	23:39
@preaction	Drake	23:39
+perlDreamer	hold on	23:39
@khenn	### This does not do any XML escaping. A way must be found to	23:39
@khenn	# recursively escape the entire data structure.	23:39
@preaction	the comment and that section is me	23:39
@preaction	well, the comment i guess isn't	23:39
+perlDreamer	I thought we were escaping inside the template now	23:39
@khenn	well, what's happening is that collaboration systems RSS feeds aren't being XML encoded	23:40
@khenn	since they return hashes	23:40
+perlDreamer	<tmpl_var whatEver ESCAPE="HTML">	23:40
@khenn	heh	23:40
@preaction	perlDreamer: it's possible that isn't working, XML != HTML	23:40
+perlDreamer	true	23:40
@khenn	it's likely	23:40
@khenn	it's not working =)	23:40
+perlDreamer	because I remember that fix	23:40
@preaction	meh, it's working better than it was :p	23:40
+perlDreamer	preaction, me and rizen did it one night. It used to error out	23:41
@khenn	it's not working at all if you have any sort of HTML in there	23:41
@khenn		23:41
@khenn	that breaks the feed	23:41
@preaction	filter them out, they aren't needed, especially	23:41
+perlDreamer	Does RSS allow HTML inside itself?	23:41
@preaction	not that i'm aware of	23:42
@khenn	ok	23:42
@khenn	ok	23:42
@khenn	I have a fix I think	23:42
@preaction	RSS isn't presentational, so non-breaking spaces are irrelvant	23:42
@khenn	I just wanted to find out why you weren't calling the _escapeXML method	23:42
@khenn	for each item	23:42
@preaction	because of the comment	23:42
@preaction	_escapeXML doesn't recursively escape the data structure	23:42
@khenn	why would it need to?	23:43
@khenn	the hash contains data	23:43
@preaction	because it's a data structure	23:43
+perlDreamer	I wonder if Sam Tregar would take another patch to H::T for escaping XML?	23:43
@khenn	what would it need to be recursive?	23:43
@khenn	s/what/why/	23:43
@preaction	it's not just a hash?	23:43
@preaction	hash of arrayrefs of hashrefs perhaps?	23:43
@preaction	template loops are array refs	23:43
@preaction	that _escapeXML was doing horrible things to those array refs	23:43
@khenn	ok	23:44
@khenn	I was just wondering	23:44
@khenn	yeah the escapeXML was not though through very well	23:44
+perlDreamer	okay, I know now how to hack H::T to do the escaping	23:51
+perlDreamer	what are valid XML escapes?	23:51
@preaction	HTML::Entities can unescape the HTML, you will have to find something that will escape the result for XML	23:52
+perlDreamer	http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=15502551	23:54
+perlDreamer	This very thing was talked about on the H::T list 9 months ago.	23:56
+perlDreamer	It just died in committee	23:56
+perlDreamer	but if we fix it by extending H::T, what happens to the other Template plugins?	23:56
@preaction	we'd have to give a patch to H::T and hope it gets committed, i think i went through this with JT about the deep-loop global_vars bug	23:58
+perlDreamer	what's with the code in /data/WebGUI/lib/XML/RSS/Creator.pm ?	23:59
@preaction	couldn't tell you, i think i suggested distributing our own H::T, but i was shot down	23:59
+perlDreamer	I see	23:59
--- Day changed Fri Feb 02 2007
+perlDreamer	Creator is a parser.	00:00
@snapcount	perlDreamer: did you credit the guy who gave us that patch in the change log?	00:01
+perlDreamer	yes. Do you happen to know his last name?	00:01
+perlDreamer	all I found was "patrick" and "patspam"	00:01
@snapcount	no I don't...	00:01
@snapcount	thanks for committing that, and I'm sure you tested it first	00:01
@snapcount	I don't think we've ever got one from him before	00:02
+perlDreamer	I did. Had to make my own Asset tweak in order to do it.	00:02
@snapcount	ok cool	00:02
+perlDreamer	The Slider slid. It was good.	00:02
@snapcount	I'm a little paranoid with new people and their patches =)	00:02
@preaction	word	00:02
@snapcount	cool cool	00:02
* preaction worries more about the evils he knows		00:03
@snapcount	maybe more people will submit patches with their bugs	00:03
* snapcount dreams a little dream		00:03
+perlDreamer	drop him 100 karma	00:03
+perlDreamer	s/drop/give/	00:03
@snapcount	hmm	00:03
@snapcount	that's not a bad incentive	00:03
+perlDreamer	we'd have to do it manually though	00:03
@snapcount	yeah	00:03
greghacke	next you'll tell me to submit bugs	00:03
@snapcount	that's fine	00:03
@snapcount	and if it starts taking a bunch of time b/c it's manual	00:04
@snapcount	that is a good thing	00:04
+perlDreamer	greghacke: Submit bugs	00:04
@snapcount	perlDreamer: shoot me an email with that suggestion so I don't forget about it	00:04
@snapcount	I need to mull it over... I don't know if 100 is too much or too little	00:05
greghacke	I could submit bugs on EMS but I think I'll hold on that until I crawl the code again.	00:05
+perlDreamer	You get 5 for submitting, 5 for closing.	00:05
greghacke	5 per level - cosmetc: 5, minor: 10; critical: 15, fatal: 20	00:06
@snapcount	trouble with that is that it's a subjective scale	00:06
@snapcount	critical to you could easily be cosmetic to most	00:06
@snapcount	and vice versa	00:06
greghacke	absolutely true.	00:06
@snapcount	I'd prefer one number	00:06
@snapcount	a bug is a bug	00:07
greghacke	karma itself is a subjective system though.	00:07
gooeybot	itself is a subjective system though. has neutral karma	00:07
@snapcount	and it keeps it fair	00:07
greghacke	don't believe much in 'fair'	00:07
@snapcount	time for sk00L	00:07
@snapcount	ttyl guys	00:08
+perlDreamer	hack on, duded	00:08
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@khenn	got another regex question	00:20
+perlDreamer	bring it	00:20
@khenn	I want to find everything in the string that looks like: &...;	00:21
@khenn	but my regexp is finding the first &	00:21
@khenn	and the last ;	00:21
@khenn	when I do:	00:21
+perlDreamer	use \S+ instead of .	00:21
@khenn	s/(&.*;)//;	00:21
@khenn	ah	00:21
+perlDreamer	\s is whitespace	00:21
+perlDreamer	\S is non-whitespace	00:21
+perlDreamer	all characters	00:21
+perlDreamer	use \w instead of \S	00:22
+perlDreamer	\w+	00:22
+perlDreamer	\w is word characters	00:22
+perlDreamer	do you need to find '#'?	00:22
@khenn	no	00:23
+perlDreamer	then use \w	00:23
+perlDreamer	if you need to find '#', use &([^;]+);	00:23
+perlDreamer	preaction: this stress tester is stressful. First you have to build a CS, then commit it, then add a thread, and _then_ you can starting shoving posts into it.	00:24
@preaction	the bug is messed up :(	00:25
greghacke	functional question: fastest way to port in 12000 entries into an SQLForm table.	00:34
greghacke	or should i hit the forums?	00:34
+perlDreamer	why SQLForm?	00:35
greghacke	agency hosting using extra database for SQLForm. customer uses it for data tracking (or will when i finish normalizing it)	00:36
greghacke	two tables, ~6000 records into the first and 12000 to the second.	00:36
@preaction	greghacke: probably a direct DBI query script	00:36
greghacke	thought so.	00:36
+perlDreamer	note that SQLForm data is versioned by default	00:36
@khenn	anyone know anything about RSS 2.0?	00:37
greghacke	yeah, i'm referencing the default columns for the data (except for the __recordId)	00:37
+perlDreamer	khenn: sorry	00:37
@khenn	I guess I'll try it	00:37
+perlDreamer	there's some info in /data/WebGUI/lib/XML/RSS/Creator.pm	00:37
@khenn	and see what happens	00:37
@khenn	I'm guessing that having HTML stripped out of your RSS is not the desired effect eh?	00:53
+perlDreamer	I bet iTunes will actually render the HTML, whereas a strict RSS reader wouldn't	00:56
@preaction	might have to read the spec on that, i would think that RSS would not include HTML tags	00:57
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@khenn	it doesn't	01:02
@khenn	and there weren't any anyway	01:02
@khenn	b/c my test was on a collab system which is returning synopsis as the description	01:03
@khenn	but my fix should handle just about everything in terms of RSS	01:03
@khenn	I'm sure wierd Arabic, Japaneese, Chineese, etc characters are gonna mess things up	01:04
@khenn	but I'm guess thing will handle 99% of what it needs to	01:04
@khenn	can someone with a mac test something out for me in Safari and/or FF?	01:04
@khenn	http://frank1.plainblack.net:8084/news2/alumni-news/alumni-news.rss	01:04
@khenn	the links don't work btw cause my config file is screwed up	01:06
@preaction	testing	01:11
@preaction	FF on Mac likes your page	01:12
@preaction	trying Safari	01:12
@preaction	safari likes it too	01:13
@khenn	cool	01:15
@khenn	wahooo!!!	01:18
@khenn	she seems to be fixed	01:18
@khenn	any of the dutch people around atm?	01:18
+perlDreamer	nope	01:19
@khenn	I think my fix to RSS shoudl support nearly everything	01:20
@khenn	I'm slightly worried about HTML and funky characters in other languages	01:20
@preaction	eh, would it have worked before you fixed it?	01:21
@khenn	not sure	01:22
@khenn	it probably will work	01:22
@khenn	it does not, however recurse	01:22
@preaction	so people who use RSSFromParent for non-RSS exporting...?	01:23
@preaction	it needs to recurse?	01:23
@preaction	http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/repeatedly-e-mailes-after-edit-branch <- is this not expected behavior?	01:27
+perlDreamer	preaction: re RSS, that's why I think it should be done in the template.	01:28
+perlDreamer	template level escaping allows you to reuse the RSS to do anything	01:29
@preaction	indeed... but it can't be at this moment	01:29
+perlDreamer	why not?	01:29
@preaction	because H::T doesn't?	01:29
+perlDreamer	from what I can tell, HTML escaping is a superset of XML escaping.	01:29
@preaction	that's the problem, there are HTML escape entities that XML doesn't understand	01:30
@preaction	nbsp for example	01:30
+perlDreamer	it's a mess	01:31
@preaction	complete	01:31
@preaction	quick question though: if you do an edit branch on a cs, would you not expect to get a bunch of e-mails because you edited the posts in the edit branch?	01:32
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@preaction	monkey...	01:32
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+perlDreamer	am I really back?	01:33
greghacke	No	01:36
greghacke	pD is not here. Please leave a message at the sound of the tone.	01:36
+perlDreamer	"Where is the any key?"	01:36
@khenn	re: RSS the problem lies in RSS 2.0	01:37
+perlDreamer	RSS 2.0 says that it can contain HTML?	01:37
@khenn	no, it cannot contain HTML Entities	01:37
@khenn	it requires ASCII or Hex values due to UTF-8 conversions or some crap like that	01:37
@khenn	and because H::T does not have ESCAPE="ASCII"	01:38
@khenn	it fails miserably	01:38
+perlDreamer	I see	01:38
+perlDreamer	wouldn't it be easier just to shoot the people who are manually entering HTML into the textField for Synopsis?	01:38
+perlDreamer	that long delay says that you're either ignoring me, or seriously considering it	01:39
@khenn	I was posting somewhere else	01:40
@khenn	HTML should still work actually	01:40
@khenn	I didn't test it, but I don't see why it wouldn't	01:40
@khenn	I'm slightly concerned about it	01:40
@khenn	I'm more concerned about characters that HTML::Entities isn't familiar with	01:41
@khenn	< and > are handled appropriately	01:41
+perlDreamer	how about &, ' and "?	01:42
@khenn	converted	01:42
@khenn	to whatever the hex value is for them	01:42
@khenn	HTML::Entities::encode_numeric();	01:43
@preaction	khenn: why would HTML::Entities be unfamiliar with any characters?	01:46
@preaction	perlDreamer: do you remember this? http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/dataform-grouptoviewentries-behavior	01:47
+perlDreamer	yes	01:47
@preaction	is it a bug?	01:47
+perlDreamer	Not really. It's more of an RFE.	01:47
@preaction	ok, i'll just close it then	01:47
@preaction	also, if you edit branch on a CS, would you not expect to be e-mailed the Posts that were edited?	01:48
+perlDreamer	Me, personally, I would not	01:49
+perlDreamer	To me edit branch is like a db hack. It shouldn't trigger any side effects.	01:49
@preaction	i suppose this means we drag out rizen	01:49
+perlDreamer	you need to double check that one with the rizenator	01:49
@preaction	rizen: is this a bug? http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/repeatedly-e-mailes-after-edit-branch	01:50
@khenn	preaction: The docs say it handles unknown characters by simply returning the character	01:50
@khenn	it doesn't document what it does and doesn't know	01:51
@khenn	did that make sense?	01:51
@preaction	yeah	01:51
+perlDreamer	khenn: what does the source say?	01:51
@khenn	the source?	01:52
@khenn	heh	01:52
@preaction	perlbot utsl	01:52
@preaction	use the source, luke!	01:52
@preaction	perlbot rtfs	01:52
perlbot	READ THE FUCKING SOURCE	01:52
@preaction	or that...	01:52
@khenn	YOU READ THE FUCKING SOURCE	01:53
@preaction	that's telling him!	01:53
+perlDreamer	yup, there are unfamiliar characters	01:56
+perlDreamer	there's a manual table of entities	01:56
@khenn	I figured as much	01:56
+perlDreamer	if it's not in the table, it's unknown	01:56
@khenn	If it was going somewhere on the internet to get the list it probably would require LWP =)	01:56
+perlDreamer	true. Although sometimes they do it indirectly with a 1-time fetch at install, so the LWP requirement is buried in the Make/Build script.	01:57
@preaction	these entities are described in a standard, no reason to LWP for them	01:58
@khenn	um	01:59
@khenn	they change every year	01:59
@khenn	not many changes	01:59
@khenn	usually additions	01:59
@preaction	so you're saying HTML 4.01 standard changes every year?	01:59
@khenn	no, I'm saying the UTF-8 standard does	02:00
@preaction	how about the character sets? that I can agree with	02:01
@khenn	Let's see how the new specter changes work	02:02
@khenn	spectre	02:02
@khenn	I have more memory free	02:05
@khenn	20megs more than usual	02:05
@khenn	after a restart	02:05
@preaction	that's always good	02:06
@khenn	53 bug fixes documented so far	02:07
@khenn	in 7.3.9	02:07
@preaction	30-some left on the lists	02:07
@khenn	yep	02:07
@khenn	I'm gonna be bugfixing tomorrow as well	02:07
+perlDreamer	how do you add a Post to a Thread via the API?	02:13
@preaction	addChild	02:13
+perlDreamer	hint, this isn't good enough: my $post = $thread->addChild({className=>'WebGUI::Asset::Post', 'title'=>'Post', 'threadId'=>$thread->getId});	02:14
@preaction	what's the error?	02:14
gooeybot	the error is in the loop	02:14
@preaction	no, gooeybot, the error is <reply>	02:14
gooeybot	okay, preaction.	02:14
@preaction	what's the error?	02:14
+perlDreamer	working on it.....	02:14
@preaction	(was just testing gooeybot)	02:14
@preaction	in other news: i learned how to stop gooeybot from replying to simple, stupid questions	02:15
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+perlDreamer	preaction: Can't call method "getParent" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib//WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm line 307.	02:16
+perlDreamer	I'll paste the Post stuffing script	02:16
@preaction	you're going to have to skip the autocommit	02:17
+perlDreamer	and do a manual commit?	02:17
@preaction	addChild({},{skipAutoCommitWorkflow=>1});	02:17
@preaction	yeah	02:17
@preaction	i think that's the right option	02:17
+perlDreamer	for the thread, too?	02:18
@preaction	i don't think threads autocommit	02:18
@preaction	wait	02:19
@preaction	i don't know	02:19
+perlDreamer	They must	02:19
@preaction	you're righ	02:19
+perlDreamer	Threads are really posts	02:19
+perlDreamer	preaction: http://rafb.net/p/E4TYvQ38.html	02:22
+perlDreamer	it's ...Workflows	02:23
+perlDreamer	plural	02:23
@preaction	figures	02:23
+perlDreamer	it's not fun doing dev on a 500 MHz P3	02:24
@preaction	will addRevision do it? dateSubmitted is the same as dateUpdated for the moment, right?	02:24
@preaction	addRevision can so the skipAutoCommitWorkflows too, you might have to	02:24
@khenn	I can send you some code for adding posts to Collab systems	02:25
@khenn	I've been down this road already	02:25
+perlDreamer	khenn: thanks	02:25
+perlDreamer	I think we need a repo for all these 1-off scripts	02:26
+perlDreamer	it would save time	02:27
@khenn	it's a lot of code	02:28
@khenn	but it does a lot of stuff	02:28
@khenn	if you can figure out why the hell the posts won't commit as admin I'd be much obliged (note that this only doens't work if you turn on approvals)	02:29
@khenn	I sent you all the methods it calls so you won't be confused	02:29
+perlDreamer	I think I was committing Posts as Admin last night, when I was testing the fixed rating code.	02:30
@khenn	well that should be committing everything as admin	02:30
@khenn	so there should be no reason it doesn't commit	02:30
@khenn	but it won't matter if you have approvals turned off	02:31
@khenn	you can just comment out the line that calls the special commit code	02:31
@khenn	apparently the fix for that template bug was to edit the file and put some debug code in...	02:33
+perlDreamer	template bug?	02:33
@khenn	I'm closing it now	02:33
@khenn	yeah, trying to edit a template from the edit screen of an asset was throwing an error on plainblack.com	02:33
+perlDreamer	was it a custom PB template?	02:34
@khenn	no	02:34
@khenn	actually	02:34
@khenn	yes	02:34
@khenn	it was a custom template	02:34
@khenn	but it happened for even non-custom templates	02:34
+perlDreamer	that's not good	02:34
@khenn	well it's fixed now	02:35
+perlDreamer	at least its fixed	02:35
@khenn	36 bugs left	02:36
@khenn	I think I'm done for tonight	02:36
@khenn	later everyone	02:36
@preaction	cya	02:36
+perlDreamer	bye	02:36
-!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []		02:36
+perlDreamer	I think my script is done	02:37
+perlDreamer	have to call addChild instead of addRevision, because if the threadId isn't null then it doesn't set the dateSubmitted	02:37
+perlDreamer	nothing in 100 Posts yet	02:40
@preaction	Juice that baby all the way up, Cedric!	02:40
+perlDreamer	I made it sleep 1 second between add's	02:40
+perlDreamer	but that may be skewing the data, too	02:41
+perlDreamer	nothing in 200	02:41
@preaction	since sleep always sleeps to the top of a second?	02:42
+perlDreamer	probably	02:42
@preaction	maybe Time::HiRes and sleep to a .9 of a second?	02:42
@preaction	perlbot -f sleep	02:42
perlbot	Documentation for 'sleep' can be found here: http://xrl.us/ukzw	02:42
greghacke	Good night all.	02:44
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@preaction	night	02:44
+perlDreamer	I slept for 0.47 seconds b/w submits, nothin g in 127 Posts	02:48
+perlDreamer	maybe it depends on the version of perl	02:48
+perlDreamer	or (more sanely) I'm completely wrong	02:48
@preaction	wait	02:49
@preaction	if the threadId is not null, then it sets the dateUpdated?	02:49
@preaction	and only the dateUpdated	02:49
+perlDreamer	it's all in the addRevision sub in Post.pm	02:49
+perlDreamer	if the threadId is empty, it calls it a new post	02:49
+perlDreamer	and it sets the dateSubmitted to $now	02:50
+perlDreamer	then it does another update to set dateUpdated to $now	02:50
+perlDreamer	and then later, during commit, it checks for isNew.	02:50
+perlDreamer	if it isNew, then it adjusts Karma and increments the number of replies.	02:50
+perlDreamer	you'll remember our buddy isNew from last night dateSubmitted == dateUpdated	02:51
@preaction	what if, inside the Asset->update sub, we do some dumper output of the properties we're updating with?	02:51
@preaction	then run your test	02:51
+perlDreamer	nothing in 500 Posts	02:51
@preaction	so use Data::Dumper; warn Dumper $properties if $self->get("className") eq "WebGUI::Asset::Post";	02:51
+perlDreamer	I'm manually monitoring the db as I run the test. So it should do the same thing	02:52
+perlDreamer	select assetId,dateUpdated,dateSubmitted from Post where dateUpdated <> dateSubmitted;	02:52
@preaction	crap...	02:52
@preaction	add some debug code like that to pb.com and wait for it to happen again?	02:53
+perlDreamer	you could add that to the Post level addChild/addRevision subs, instead of at the Asset level	02:53
+perlDreamer	can we scan through the PB db in order to see if this was a freak 1 time thing?	02:53
@preaction	i'm worried that it's not the Post-level things that are doing it	02:54
@preaction	i'm fairly sure it's not, there are multiple threads on pb.com with bad reply information	02:54
@preaction	but i'll check anyway	02:54
+perlDreamer	I'm heading home. I'll be back on later tonight.	02:54
@preaction	k	02:54
+perlDreamer	nice working with you today, preaction	02:55
@preaction	likewise	02:55
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@preaction	4341 rows in set... that's not so good	02:56
@preaction	1096 of them are off-by-one	02:56
@preaction	some from as far back as 2004	02:57
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PedersenMJ	good evening	05:23
-!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui		05:37
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+perlDreamer	preaction: hackest thou this fine evening?	05:39
@rizen	pd: check out the new --status option on spectre.pl and tell me what you think	05:39
@rizen	you may want to queue up a few workflows first	05:39
@rizen	i wanted to know if it provides enough information to judge health	05:40
@rizen	as you said	05:41
+perlDreamer	will do	05:41
+perlDreamer	How do I manually queue up workflows?	05:41
@rizen	use the "run" link in the scheduler	05:41
@rizen	click a few times	05:41
+perlDreamer	not bad	05:45
+perlDreamer	we can actually watch workflows flow through the queue	05:45
+perlDreamer	that is very good	05:45
+perlDreamer	if we ever need to graph stuff, we can easily add it in	05:45
@rizen	i'm trying to figure out what else i could put in there that would be useful	05:45
@rizen	there isn't much data that spectre knows about	05:45
@rizen	most of it is in webgui	05:46
+perlDreamer	It might be nice to know the original priority of a workflow, so you can see how many times its been queued	05:46
@rizen	so in the priority column, should i do something like current / original	05:46
@rizen	34 / 10	05:46
+perlDreamer	yeah	05:46
+perlDreamer	then you look at it and say: you've been reinserted 24 times	05:47
@rizen	i'm also thinking about keepin gtrack of the status of the last execution	05:47
@rizen	"complete"	05:47
@rizen	"error"	05:47
@rizen	"waiting"	05:47
+perlDreamer	that's good, too	05:47
@rizen	right now we don't keep track of it	05:47
@rizen	but it might be worth the extra memory	05:47
-!- mode/#webgui [-o snap_learner] by ChanServ		05:48
+perlDreamer	it's 1 perl string, shouldn't be too heavy	05:48
+perlDreamer	preaction and I spent about 2 or 3 hours looking at Posts today	05:48
@rizen	yeah, i'm just thinking if you have 1000 things going on	05:48
@rizen	how did you come out?	05:48
+perlDreamer	I inserted 500 posts with skipAutocommitWorkflows, and had no problems.	05:49
@rizen	nice	05:49
+perlDreamer	preaction did some research on PB's site for Posts	05:49
+perlDreamer	<@preaction> 4341 rows in set... that's not so good 02:56 <@preaction> 1096 of them are off-by-one 02:57 <@preaction> some from as far back as 2004	05:49
@rizen	wow	05:50
+perlDreamer	that's 1 in 4, and I couldn't hit that with 500 Posts.	05:50
+perlDreamer	but I also had to use the skipAutoCommitWorkflows flag	05:50
+perlDreamer	that might make things very different	05:50
+perlDreamer	so the hiccup may be coming from the autocommit workflows	05:50
@rizen	i guess we'll see	05:51
+perlDreamer	what version of perl are y'all running on PB.com?	05:51
@rizen	5.8.8	05:51
@rizen	or maybe 5.8.10	05:51
@rizen	i'd have to check	05:51
@rizen	5.8.8	05:52
+perlDreamer	I was running 5.8.6 at work.	05:52
+perlDreamer	I have 5.8.8 here	05:52
+perlDreamer	I'll try to duplicate the experiment here	05:52
@rizen	i'm going to quickly work in those other two things into the status	05:53
+perlDreamer	it takes a long time to commit 500 assets	05:57
@rizen	indeed	05:58
PedersenMJ	Hey, JT, quick question for you: If I were to talk my company into going to WebGUI for their public site, how long would it take pb.com to convert what we have into a WebGUI style? (more detail in just a sec)	06:07
PedersenMJ	Basically, we have a .net site right now, which uses its own templating system/etc. If we were to provide access to the current site, and allow you guys to pull down data/pages/etc, how long would it take you (normally) to make a whole new e-commerce type site using said templates?	06:08
PedersenMJ	I know you cannot provide an accurate number without seeing it, and I'm not asking for that. Just general past experience type numbers where a client has all their data and templates, and just needs to integrate it.	06:09
PedersenMJ	Basically, I got wind today of a fairly significant problem. Supposedly, we're supposed to be in a testing phase starting on Monday, and there's some major issues that have just cropped up today. We shouldn't be seeing major issues, not at this point, and I'm looking to gather info to try and get the current site removed.	06:10
@rizen	style conversion is less than a week	06:11
@rizen	content migration depends on number and complexity of pages	06:11
@rizen	commerce system can be set up in less than a day	06:11
@rizen	then you have to import products	06:11
@rizen	which again is a content migration issue	06:11
@rizen	almost certainly less than a month, but without seeing it	06:12
@rizen	that's all i can tell you	06:12
PedersenMJ	That's more than fair.	06:12
PedersenMJ	As I said, this was entirely ballpark, off the cuff. I wouldn't hold you to that, I can promise.	06:13
@rizen	honestly, the thing that holds us up more than anything else is a disorganized customer	06:13
@rizen	once we have everything we need	06:13
@rizen	we can rip out an entire site in under a week	06:13
@rizen	content migration, commerce, design, the whole ball of wax	06:14
+perlDreamer	nothing in 1500 Posts	06:14
@rizen	that's great pd	06:14
@rizen	this is with skip auto?	06:14
+perlDreamer	yeah	06:14
+perlDreamer	and same version of perl, but maybe different switches?	06:14
@rizen	what if you don't skip auto	06:14
@rizen	why are you skipping auto?	06:15
@rizen	just cuz it's faster?	06:15
+perlDreamer	I was told that I had to.	06:15
@rizen	who told you that?	06:15
+perlDreamer	I don't remember.	06:15
@rizen	no reason to do that	06:15
@rizen	the skip auto feature is only there for the branch functions	06:15
+perlDreamer	wait a minute. I know what it was	06:16
+perlDreamer	it was a workaround to a bug I was getting	06:16
PedersenMJ	Thanks. I'm going to be monitoring the situation at work as carefully as possible. And trying to introduce WebGUI for an intranet site next week sometime.	06:16
@rizen	hey PedersenMJ...how did i piss you off the other day?	06:17
PedersenMJ	If things fall through with the current company (and I suspect they might, the mistakes they are making are enormous), I'll be doing my best to get them to call you guys up.	06:17
@rizen	i thought i was being nice	06:17
PedersenMJ	You pissed me off?	06:17
+perlDreamer	Post->getAutoCommitWorkflowId was failing	06:17
@rizen	i said that i wanted to keep the channel all about bug fixing	06:17
@rizen	and you made some sort of sour grapes comment	06:17
@rizen	and left	06:17
PedersenMJ	That was you? Ah, it was the way it was said.	06:17
@rizen	i said please and everything	06:18
@rizen	everyone on the channel was wondering why you were mad and left	06:18
PedersenMJ	Here's what I saw as possible answers to the question: 1) Yes. 2) No. 3) Ignore me. 4) FOAD. I felt more like I got FOAD, when I would have much preferred 3.	06:18
@rizen	we even discussed that it was someone other than you masquerading, because you never act like that	06:18
PedersenMJ	That, and it was said by someone I didn't know.	06:19
@rizen	FOAD?	06:19
PedersenMJ	FOAD = Acronym: Fuck off and die.	06:19
@rizen	heh...i didn't mean that certainly	06:19
-!- rizen is now known as BugSlasherMcGirk		06:19
PedersenMJ	I think the big thing is that I didn't know that BugSlasherMcGirk was you.	06:19
-!- BugSlasherMcGirk is now known as rizen		06:20
@rizen	my alter ego	06:20
-!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI 7.3.8		06:20
PedersenMJ	You? I'd have understood it, and been okay with it. BSMG? Had never seen the name, thought it was someone trying to tell me to foad, basically, and that I was not welcome.	06:20
PedersenMJ	Now I know, and will offer up an apology. That was more than slightly rude of me.	06:21
+perlDreamer	Normally we don't let people treat other people in the channel that way. If it was some jerk, we'd have nailed him.	06:21
PedersenMJ	And the embarassing part is that I almost went ahead and asked who the heck bsmg was. Wish I had.	06:21
PedersenMJ	I am sorry. And will take this as a lesson to ask first, rather than shoot a mouth off.	06:22
@rizen	no biggie	06:23
+perlDreamer	nothing in 500 Posts without autocommitworkflows	06:23
+perlDreamer	trying 750	06:23
@rizen	i just thought you were mad at me or something	06:23
@rizen	you mean "with" right?	06:23
@rizen	or "without skip"	06:23
+perlDreamer	yes, without skip	06:23
+perlDreamer	nothing in 750	06:23
@rizen	i think you've got it licked man	06:24
+perlDreamer	I don't have a bug fix. I'm trying to duplicate the bug.	06:24
+perlDreamer	I can't	06:24
PedersenMJ	And will thank you for setting me straight, too. That sets my mind at ease, a lot. Man, I really need to have better integration between irc and jabber. Might have to take that side project on myself.	06:25
+perlDreamer	nothing in 1500 Posts	06:25
+perlDreamer	rizen, I think we should try this on PB.com and see if we can dupe it there.	06:25
+perlDreamer	I'm getting 25 Post inserts per second	06:26
@rizen	no offense, but i don't want to throw a bunch of crap into plainblack.com db	06:27
@rizen	we can do it on a demo site if you like	06:27
@rizen	but not on plainblack	06:27
@rizen	plainblack's database is already fragmented, and has more than half a gig of data in it	06:28
+perlDreamer	the script is completely self contained and self checking	06:29
+perlDreamer	in the end it tells you how many busted posts it made	06:29
@rizen	you know, as buggy as webgui might be sometimes, that's one huge testament to how cool it is	06:29
+perlDreamer	yes it is	06:29
@rizen	plainblack.com was created on WebGUI 0.8.0	06:29
@rizen	and has survived every upgrade	06:29
@rizen	to 7.3.8	06:29
@rizen	i don't think that there are many cms providers out there that can claim any site has survived the hundreds of upgrades	06:30
@rizen	we have	06:30
@rizen	upgrade and cms just don't go hand in hand in most cases	06:31
+perlDreamer	someone in the channel said that Zope sites can't do major version number upgrades. They have to port.	06:31
@rizen	that was me	06:32
@rizen	but it is true	06:32
@rizen	you have to export/import your data with a migration tool	06:32
@rizen	and that only works for the main content	06:32
@rizen	it won't work for any plugin data	06:32
+perlDreamer	I emailed you the Post stuffer script	06:33
@rizen	do you want me to run it on a demo site?	06:33
+perlDreamer	yes, please	06:33
PedersenMJ	BRB, switching to real IRC client.	06:35
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@rizen	is this thing supposed to be outputting as it goes?	06:37
+perlDreamer	no	06:38
@rizen	http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1170390990_536	06:38
@rizen	how many will it create?	06:38
+perlDreamer	1500	06:38
+perlDreamer	it's pretty fast	06:38
+perlDreamer	(on my unloaded machine)	06:39
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+perlDreamer	at the end, it will tell you how many Posts it found with non-identical dateUpdated and dateSubmitted	06:39
@rizen	it's not committing any of the tags	06:39
@rizen	is it supposed to?	06:40
@rizen	this is the output i got from it at the end	06:40
@rizen	$VAR1 = [];	06:40
@rizen	we're running 7.3.8 out there though, so i don't know if that would have anything to do with it	06:41
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PedersenMJ	Much better.	06:41
PedersenMJ	Using a real client is definitely better.	06:42
+perlDreamer	rizen: will committing the tags change dateUpdated or dateSubmitted?	06:42
@rizen	nope	06:44
+perlDreamer	$VAR1=[] means that there were no rows found where dateUpdated != dateSubmitted	06:46
+perlDreamer	maybe we need to add debug code to PB's WebGUI and see what's going on via logging.	06:47
+perlDreamer	since we can't dupe the bug on command.	06:47
@rizen	what will logging tell us	06:51
@rizen	it seems only when it happened, not why	06:51
@rizen	the new status screen is available for your approval...added last state and original priority	06:51
@rizen	and also now keeps track of suspended workflows	06:51
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+perlDreamer	it might tell us about where	06:51
@rizen	how so?	06:52
@rizen	this can only be happening in one spot, right?	06:52
+perlDreamer	I hope so.	06:52
@rizen	well in order for it to tell us something else, we'd have to be logging in more than one spot	06:52
@rizen	but we've only got one spot to log	06:52
+perlDreamer	I was thinking of adding code in Post, for addChild, addRevision and commit	06:53
+perlDreamer	it seems like we've only got two choice	06:54
@rizen	give me a patched version of the 7.3.8 Post.pm and i'll put it on there for you	06:54
+perlDreamer	I'll work on it	06:54
+perlDreamer	after I check our your new spectre status	06:54
@rizen	i recommend not using the normal logging mechanism though	06:54
@rizen	cuz we'll never find it	06:54
@rizen	the webgui.log is too big	06:54
@rizen	instead, just open a file to /tmp/post.log	06:55
@rizen	or something	06:55
+perlDreamer	that's shared among all the threads?	06:56
@rizen	what's shared?	06:56
+perlDreamer	there are multiple workers (apache children). Wouldn't you have to lock the file so that they don't stomp on each other?	06:57
@rizen	open my $file, ">>", "/tmp/post.log"; print {$file} $output; close $file;	06:57
@rizen	nope	06:57
@rizen	you're appending	06:57
@rizen	so it works like magic	06:57
+perlDreamer	do you think we'll find anything if we do this?	06:58
@rizen	honestly...not really	06:58
@rizen	but i don't have any other idea	06:58
@rizen	the sherlock method says to exhaust all possibilities, until whatever is left must be your answer	06:59
@rizen	so we should do this	06:59
+perlDreamer	do you think we should try banging heads with the other devs tomorrow?	06:59
@rizen	it's better than doing nothing	06:59
+perlDreamer	pow wow?	06:59
@rizen	we've been doing that for 2 days	06:59
@rizen	and i'm on accounting duty tomorrow, so i won't be around most of the day	07:00
@rizen	i guess what i'm saying is...this log can't hurt	07:00
@rizen	maybe it will give us a clue	07:00
+perlDreamer	the worst it can do is slow your site down a little do to the I/O	07:00
@rizen	my site is already slow	07:01
@rizen	which is something i've got to work on	07:01
@rizen	so it's not even going to be noticable	07:01
+perlDreamer	what's wrong with PB? Why is it slow?	07:01
@rizen	no idea	07:01
@rizen	it really shouldn't be slow given the hardware it's on vs the traffic we get	07:01
@rizen	honestly i'm starting to believe it's the caching system that's slowing us down	07:02
+perlDreamer	File cache?	07:02
@rizen	when the fs cache grows big	07:02
@rizen	it really seems to chug	07:02
@rizen	yeah	07:02
@rizen	i was hoping to have all these bugs fixed this week so i could spend next week doing some profiling	07:06
@rizen	i think that we're caching a lot of shit, that doesn't get us much or any gain	07:06
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@rizen	so, do you think the status screen will be a good diagnostic tool?	07:07
@rizen	can you think of any improvements?	07:07
+perlDreamer	no	07:07
@rizen	good, then it's good enough for the time being	07:08
@rizen	that combined with the queue improvements, and the startup improvements	07:08
@rizen	i think that spectre should be in pretty fit shape	07:08
+perlDreamer	we closed 50 bugs over the last 3 days	07:08
@rizen	is that all?	07:09
+perlDreamer	yeah	07:09
@rizen	it seemed like hundreds	07:09
+perlDreamer	there are about 30 more	07:09
+perlDreamer	we also found some non-reported bugs	07:09
@rizen	frank, roy, and doug will all be working on bugs again tomorrow	07:09
+perlDreamer	I should be able to help some more	07:10
+perlDreamer	but I'm way slower than they are	07:10
@rizen	you seem to be closing as many or more bugs than they are from my vantage point	07:10
+perlDreamer	I had a head start :)	07:10
@rizen	well i'm done for tonight	07:15
@rizen	ttyl	07:15
+perlDreamer	good night	07:15
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PedersenMJ_	I'm headed for bed myself. Yawning more than reading or writing now.	07:17
PedersenMJ_	g'night!	07:17
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+perlDreamer	nobody left but us perlDreamers	07:59
* perlDreamer gollum		07:59
Hinrik	O_o	07:59
* Radix-wrk yawns.		08:01
Radix-wrk	I've been having dramas with Webgui of a different nature - psu in the machine hosting webgui was 'spiking' randomly - causing it to spontaneously reboot and me to panic - had to do a run-around for a replacement psu, but seems to be working fine now I'm glad to say.	08:06
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+perlDreamer	is the psu on a ups?	08:14
Radix-wrk	was yup	08:18
Radix-wrk	I tried it without the ups thinking maybe the UPS was the problem somehow - as it was beeping when it restarted - but then it did it in front of me 2 minutes later after bypassing the UPS	08:19
Radix-wrk	It's been up 1hr 20 mins so far, so all is good so far.. got my webdev machine with a clone of the whole site just in case this time - it's a friday afternoon and the last thing I want to do on my weekend is rush in to work - this way a few iptables rules will let me redirect to the webdev machine instead ;)	08:22
+perlDreamer	good backup	08:25
+perlDreamer	well, I got another bug fixed	08:42
+perlDreamer	time to go to bed	08:42
+perlDreamer	that will give you guys time to find more bugs	08:42
xdanger	is there a way to catch "Illegal division by zero at..." error on a whole script level? not just putting the part in eval {};	08:43
+perlDreamer	I don't think so. You should only need to trap certain parts of it.	08:43
xdanger	I just don't want to put eval on every part of that script that dows divisions...	08:44
+perlDreamer	how about checking the data before the divisions happen?	08:44
+perlDreamer	and error out appropriately?	08:44
xdanger	toooooo many variables...	08:44
xdanger	It's a complex hash that is worked on..	08:45
+perlDreamer	you could assign the data to tied variables that overload division so that they never really divide by 0.	08:45
xdanger	no, it's 6 different complex hashes, that are worked on =D	08:45
+perlDreamer	in perl 6 this is easy. perl 6 understands the concept of infinity	08:46
+perlDreamer	in perl 5 you're stuck	08:46
+perlDreamer	see if you can catch preaction tomorrow. He's full of good and sneaky ideas for this kind of stuff	08:47
xdanger	I was thinking about adding something like $var = sprintf("%.2f", $x / ($y + 0.000000000001));	08:47
Radix-wrk	there's no try/catch stuff in perl?	08:47
+perlDreamer	there is, on a 1 by 1 basis	08:47
xdanger	there is eval {}; and $@	08:47
xdanger	http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~anthony/info/perl/exceptions	08:48
+perlDreamer	but no way to do it across an entire script, unless you wrap the whole script in the eval.	08:49
xdanger	and then again the whole eval just fails =P	08:50
+perlDreamer	right	08:50
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xdanger	I was hoping for something like "use weird_devision_by_zero_fix;" kinda solution ;)	08:51
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@snapcount	akjg;alkdfjaoiehgioerjnfao[';snc	17:35
@preaction	really?	17:37
ckotil	thats the word on the street	17:37
@rizen	This is the new --status screen from the spectre command line: http://rafb.net/p/pi0btX35.html	17:42
@rizen	it allows you to see what's happening inside of spectre at any given time	17:42
ckotil	very nice.	17:43
@rizen	can any of you think of any way to make the screen more useful for debugging purposes?	17:43
ckotil	the activities contained in the workflows perhaps?	17:44
@rizen	unfortunately spectre doesn't know that	17:44
ckotil	k	17:44
@rizen	spectre doesn't know much...for security's sake	17:44
ckotil	that makes sense	17:45
@preaction	would it know the last activity it tried to run?	17:47
@preaction	that might be useful, for figuring out error and comm error statusi	17:48
@rizen	no it doesn't know any activities	17:53
@rizen	what it does is says, "Webgui, here's the instance that's ready to run....do it	17:54
@rizen	and then webgui looks up the next activity	17:54
@rizen	at least with this screen you have site name and instance id	17:54
@rizen	from there you can go look up the other stuff in the database	17:54
@rizen	i know it's not perfect...it's just what i can do with the data i have	17:54
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@rizen	to take this to the next level i'd like to display a similar screen inside of webgui's UI	17:55
@rizen	but it needs to filter out the data so that it only shows the stuff for that particular site	17:55
@rizen	once we have that, then we can do a drill down	17:55
@rizen	and show activities, workflows, etc	17:55
@rizen	cuz webgui does know all this stuff	17:56
ckotil	anyone know if there is an rfe for transferring assets/workflow/karm/etc.. between webgui sites?	18:05
ckotil	users/groups/configs?	18:06
@rizen	not that i'm aware of	18:07
@rizen	there is one about users and single sign on	18:08
@rizen	which would do that for users	18:08
@rizen	generally speaking, if you need somthing like that	18:08
@rizen	i'd suggest running a bunch of sites out of the same webgui instance	18:08
ckotil	thatd be an amazing feature. but i think first there would need to be a web services interface built in first. like soap	18:08
ckotil	thats what i do now.	18:08
ckotil	they are each contained beneath there own page layout.	18:09
ckotil	then i use mod_rewrite to rewrite the domain	18:09
@rizen	yup	18:09
ckotil	im happy with the way it worked out.	18:09
@rizen	it's easily the best way to do it when you need to share resources like that	18:09
ckotil	indee	18:09
ckotil	d	18:09
@rizen	many of our clients do the same thing	18:09
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ckotil	hrmm.. just got your response about approval messages not processing macros	18:14
ckotil	i need to include the date to an approval messafe	18:14
@rizen	it's easy to add if you want to one off it	18:15
@rizen	look at the NotifyAboutUser.pm activity, compared to the NotifyAboutVersionTag.pm activity	18:15
@rizen	the first one does process macros	18:15
ckotil	ok	18:16
* ckotil takes note		18:16
--- Log closed Fri Feb 02 18:20:45 2007
--- Log opened Fri Feb 02 20:06:34 2007
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greghacke	wonders at the sound of crickets	20:17
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@preaction	all the easy bugs are done, these are the hard ones, require concentration	20:18
@preaction	i'm trying to reproduce the IE problem when HTTPS sites proxy HTTPS sites and request a file from the proxied site	20:19
greghacke	See, I figured everyone was napping.	20:20
greghacke	what is the error?	20:20