| --- Log opened Mon Jan 01 00:00:04 2007 | ||
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| -!- Radix__ changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable 7.2.3 | beta 7.3.2) | WRE (0.7.2) | Use the Wiki: http://plainblack.com/support/community-wiki | Questions? Ask and wait patiently | Happy New Year everyone! | 05:17 | |
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| --- Day changed Tue Jan 02 2007 | ||
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| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. just realised why the webgui forum ratings are always screwed up | 04:35 |
|---|---|---|
| Radix-wrk | Visitor can rate forum posts up or down | 04:35 |
| Radix-wrk | Which means that every web crawler under the sun is effectively activating rate up/rate down at random and screwing up everyone's karma as a consequence | 04:36 |
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| Radix-wrk | I'd love to know how to add a page to the community wiki | 06:55 |
| Radix-wrk | LOL - http://www.plainblack.com/install/upgrade_help?sortBy=rating | 07:11 |
| Radix-wrk | a rating of 1994 | 07:11 |
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| nutrino | Are there any known security bugs with webgui? | 16:39 |
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| ckotil | ^ any known security bugs? | 16:41 |
| ckotil | yeah im having some major issues. | 17:35 |
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| +crythias | hmm | 18:08 |
| +crythias | HNY and all that. | 18:08 |
| ckotil | yup | 18:18 |
| ckotil | i get back to work and webgui has shit the fan | 18:18 |
| +crythias | question: | 18:18 |
| +crythias | I have some info/tutorials that I've found on the internet for aua-style buttons (web2.0/3d/gel buttons) | 18:19 |
| +crythias | aqua | 18:19 |
| +crythias | in ANY case | 18:19 |
| +crythias | the question is should a list (navigation) want to have same size buttons or size-per-entry? | 18:20 |
| ckotil | size-per-entry, as in customizeable sizes? | 18:21 |
| +crythias | yes | 18:27 |
| +crythias | because... | 18:27 |
| ckotil | could be usefull | 18:28 |
| ckotil | it'd be a nice additional feature | 18:28 |
| +crythias | people don't do this, but I know you can use a 1px wide repeating background with attached endcaps... | 18:28 |
| ckotil | im guilty | 18:28 |
| +crythias | I used this "trick" for the WebGUI 6 resizable theme, way back when. | 18:29 |
| ckotil | nice | 18:36 |
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| ckotil | damnit. i want the crawler bots to stop going through my http proxy | 19:50 |
| ckotil | i think its killing my site | 19:50 |
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| @preaction-m | ckotil: you hve a robots.txt? | 20:18 |
| ckotil | yes | 21:50 |
| ckotil | a good one | 21:50 |
| ckotil | i think i found teh prob | 21:50 |
| ckotil | fucking http proxy | 21:50 |
| ckotil | our log files are ~30mb each | 21:52 |
| ckotil | and its causing our whole server to seize when a crawler crawls the logs | 21:52 |
| ckotil | does that sound plausible? | 21:53 |
| @preaction-m | why ... how can a crawler get to the logs? | 21:59 |
| +crythias | because http-access | 21:59 |
| @preaction-m | why are the logs under DocumentRoot? is that how the WRE does it? | 22:00 |
| ckotil | these are systems logs for researchers | 22:02 |
| ckotil | http://globalnoc.iu.edu/abilene/research-data.html | 22:02 |
| ckotil | bgp rib dumps | 22:02 |
| ckotil | igp state dumps | 22:02 |
| ckotil | etc... | 22:02 |
| ckotil | have you thought of how to proxy large files? | 22:04 |
| ckotil | it seems the http proxy asset is ... dumb when it comes to large files | 22:04 |
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| ckotil | temp files should be used for large file support, and use the in memory for smaller files | 22:05 |
| @preaction-m | the httpproxy asset is dumb, period. it should not be used for half as much as people use it for | 22:09 |
| @preaction-m | far better to open a vhost on a different port | 22:09 |
| ckotil | i like to use http proxy to bring content inline with my template | 22:11 |
| ckotil | i could use iframe, but that has its drawbacks & limitationst oo | 22:12 |
| @preaction-m | for simple informational pages, sure it works great. but people are trying to proxy CGI applications, binary files, etc... | 22:13 |
| ckotil | yup | 22:13 |
| ckotil | i tried the js http proxy | 22:13 |
| ckotil | that didnt work quite like id hoped | 22:13 |
| @preaction-m | there'd be a nice way for CGI applications to get "proxied" by having WebGUI execute the appropriate script with the appropriate arguments/data passed on STDIN | 22:14 |
| @preaction-m | as for binary files, or large files, that's best handled by another apache host/instance | 22:14 |
| ckotil | interesting | 22:17 |
| ckotil | using stdin eh? | 22:17 |
| ckotil | what types of stdin does webgui offer? | 22:18 |
| ckotil | outside of building a wobject | 22:18 |
| @preaction-m | it'd have to be a wobject | 22:41 |
| ckotil | :{ | 22:42 |
| ckotil | well thats the next step | 22:42 |
| @preaction-m | call it an "Exec" or "CGI" wobject, build in some protections to allow only certain parameters to be passed, allow programs that don't use CGI to be called (normal CLI programs, perhaps) | 22:42 |
| ckotil | yeah. they will start out very simple at first | 22:43 |
| ckotil | hell my first attempt at building a wobject, printed text and did an evaluation | 22:44 |
| ckotil | i havent made one that accepts input. thats the next step | 22:44 |
| ckotil | how hard is it to allow users to switch between templates for a page? | 22:45 |
| @preaction-m | on a per-user basis? | 22:45 |
| ckotil | i.e. it defaults to one page and i want to give users the option of using a different template | 22:45 |
| ckotil | i recently updated my template to scale the entire width of your screen | 22:45 |
| @preaction-m | i'm not sure if template form inputs are valid for user profiles, but that'd be the best way | 22:46 |
| ckotil | or plain scale to whatever size you desire. some people dont like this and id like to have a button tey can click to use the old template | 22:46 |
| ckotil | is that possible? | 22:46 |
| @preaction-m | sure it's possible, javascript could do it | 22:47 |
| ckotil | ;] | 22:47 |
| ckotil | cool i think i know how. use js to store and set the template varibale/url to whatever? | 22:48 |
| @preaction-m | actually it'd be more use javascript to decide which CSS file to get | 22:48 |
| @preaction-m | but that might work too, the two different URLs, but that'd be bad | 22:48 |
| ckotil | they use the same css | 22:49 |
| ckotil | i made sure of that. | 22:49 |
| ckotil | whatd be bad about itt? | 22:49 |
| ckotil | url to the template that is. | 22:49 |
| ckotil | or is that determined even before the page loads? | 22:49 |
| @preaction-m | that's determined before any data is sent to the user | 22:49 |
| ckotil | hrm... | 22:49 |
| ckotil | so how would i use js to change that? | 22:50 |
| @preaction-m | it'd be bad because you'd have to maintain two versions of the same asset, but if one was a shortcut to the other with an override.... | 22:50 |
| ckotil | yeah...fuuuuck that | 22:50 |
| @preaction-m | that'd be best actually, one a shortcut to the other, with a template override | 22:50 |
| ckotil | it could be done with css tho | 22:50 |
| ckotil | i could have 2 css's and force widths to the one template. yeah, i could do it. | 22:51 |
| ckotil | oh use shortcut assets? | 22:51 |
| ckotil | sick. | 22:51 |
| ckotil | & easy | 22:51 |
| vidar_ | what are you trying to do? | 23:23 |
| ckotil | have 2 templates. that users can choose from | 23:37 |
| ckotil | im not worried about it tho. | 23:37 |
| ckotil | im heading home. ttyl | 23:37 |
| vidar_ | better do that with js | 23:38 |
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| @rizen | by a show of angry fists...how many people are actually here right now? | 01:27 |
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| xdanger | \o/ | 01:41 |
| -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 8 nicks [3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 5 normal] | 01:41 | |
| @rizen | wahoo!! | 01:41 |
| @rizen | we've got a live one here! | 01:42 |
| xdanger | =) | 01:42 |
| xdanger | wazzup? | 01:42 |
| @rizen | nothing at all | 01:43 |
| xdanger | mmmm'k | 01:43 |
| @rizen | was just wondering if anyone in that list is actually a real person | 01:43 |
| @rizen | or if they're all bots | 01:43 |
| @rizen | methinks we should put this channel to some good use | 01:43 |
| @rizen | and i was just wondering where we stand at this point | 01:43 |
| @rizen | apparently, mostly dead in the water | 01:43 |
| @rizen | so starting from scratch | 01:44 |
| xdanger | I'm just running irssin inside a screen so i'm "online" 24/7 | 01:44 |
| xdanger | It's a pity that webgui doesn't have a more active community | 01:52 |
| @rizen | it's going to have | 01:52 |
| @rizen | that's what i'm talking about | 01:53 |
| xdanger | but... If you take a look at some php-crap, it's a good thing too ;) | 01:53 |
| @rizen | this is part of my new years resolution for webgui | 01:53 |
| @rizen | we will have a much stronger community by the end of 2007 | 01:53 |
| xdanger | there are so many crapy unuseful plugins for joomla! for examble | 01:53 |
| xdanger | example | 01:53 |
| @rizen | yup | 01:54 |
| @rizen | part of the reason people think that the community is small for webgui | 01:54 |
| @rizen | is that webgui has so many more features than most of it's competitors | 01:54 |
| @rizen | it doesn't need as many plugins | 01:54 |
| @rizen | cuz it already has that stuff built in | 01:54 |
| xdanger | there are so many crapy unuseful plugins for <insert something made with php based on a community> for example | 01:54 |
| @rizen | true... | 01:54 |
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| @rizen | but people using webgui are using it to do real work | 01:55 |
| @rizen | they aren't using it for their family home page for the most part | 01:55 |
| @rizen | that's the difference between us and joomla | 01:55 |
| @rizen | webgui gets shit done | 01:55 |
| xdanger | there's not a lot of "whisels and bells" (cant type that correctly) in webgui, but you can do thouse with a couple of plugins&template alterations =) | 01:55 |
| @rizen | what kinds of whistles and bells would you like? | 01:56 |
| xdanger | yup, I acctually was thinking of doing a "family page" with webgui... and have each member have their own pages and galleries... | 01:56 |
| @rizen | yeah, i'm sorry...i didn't mean to say that you can't use it for your family home page | 01:57 |
| @rizen | i use it for mine | 01:57 |
| xdanger | not me... my clients say that this doesn't have something and I think about it overnight and then tell them 2-4 different ways to acomplish their goal... | 01:57 |
| @rizen | just that most of our users are business and colleges | 01:57 |
| @rizen | not home users | 01:57 |
| xdanger | yup, webgui - not for beginners administrators... | 01:58 |
| xdanger | whou wre has helped a lot | 01:58 |
| @rizen | yup, templates give you a lot of power | 01:58 |
| @rizen | this month and next i'm writing a whole new wre | 01:58 |
| @rizen | with GUI management tools | 01:58 |
| @rizen | i'm hoping to have it out the door by march | 01:59 |
| xdanger | nice... so Is that the 0.8 that someone talked about? | 01:59 |
| @rizen | yes | 01:59 |
| @rizen | we'll probably put out a few more 0.7 patches | 01:59 |
| xdanger | ok, so can stop waiting for that =) | 01:59 |
| @rizen | but no new dev is going into that | 01:59 |
| @rizen | all new dev is going into wre 0.8 | 01:59 |
| xdanger | Just before christmas I was just testing our upgrade path 6.8.10->7.2.3... | 02:00 |
| xdanger | I'm a bit worried about spectre | 02:00 |
| xdanger | is it stable/safe | 02:00 |
| xdanger | I know that you have tested it and so one, but still =) | 02:01 |
| @rizen | to be honest i'm worried about spectre too | 02:01 |
| @rizen | it's not as good as it needs to be | 02:01 |
| @rizen | but i wouldn't have known that if i didn't release it | 02:01 |
| @rizen | now that it's out in the wild, i can see how people are using it | 02:01 |
| @rizen | and what problems they're having | 02:01 |
| xdanger | a server writen in perl is something that I'm not comfortable with | 02:02 |
| @rizen | so now i can make improvements | 02:02 |
| @rizen | oh...that's not a problem | 02:02 |
| @rizen | i've written dozens of those | 02:02 |
| @rizen | they're as stable and safe as anything els | 02:02 |
| @rizen | e | 02:02 |
| @rizen | if written correctly | 02:02 |
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| xdanger | yeah, I know that they work and so one, but still... | 02:02 |
| cap10morgan | Is there a way to edit a style template via the API? | 02:03 |
| @rizen | spectre is my first attempt at writing a POE based server | 02:03 |
| cap10morgan | or even just access one and then put a different one back? (i.e. edit it via other means) | 02:03 |
| xdanger | I'm did some reading on perlbal and mogilefs, and It's crazy that they wrote thouse in perl =D | 02:03 |
| @rizen | yes there is cap | 02:03 |
| cap10morgan | rizen: great | 02:03 |
| @rizen | here's how it works | 02:03 |
| @rizen | my $template = WebGUI::Asset->new($session, $assetId, "WebGUI::Asset::Template", $version); | 02:04 |
| xdanger | when I tested POE, it wasn't so stable then... and the progres was a littee stale at the begining... | 02:04 |
| @rizen | You can leave off $version if you just want to retrieve the most recent one | 02:04 |
| @rizen | then you just do | 02:04 |
| @rizen | $template->addRevision({template=>$newTemplateCode}); | 02:05 |
| cap10morgan | rizen: cool, makes sense. thank you. | 02:05 |
| @rizen | After you've made that edit | 02:05 |
| @rizen | you'll have to commit | 02:05 |
| xdanger | and commit? or does that commit? | 02:05 |
| @rizen | you can either do that vie code | 02:05 |
| xdanger | o =) | 02:05 |
| @rizen | via code | 02:05 |
| @rizen | or you can do it via the web interface | 02:05 |
| @rizen | doing it via code works like this: | 02:06 |
| cap10morgan | right | 02:06 |
| @rizen | WebGUI::VersionTag->getWorking($session)->commit; | 02:06 |
| @rizen | That's the one liner | 02:06 |
| @rizen | To commit the current working tag. | 02:06 |
| cap10morgan | cool, i think i'm all set then. thanks | 02:07 |
| @rizen | xdanger: perlbal is amazing | 02:07 |
| @rizen | np cap | 02:07 |
| xdanger | It is... | 02:08 |
| xdanger | Have you taken a look at gearman? from "danga" also... | 02:08 |
| xdanger | You could use that for a base for something like spectre | 02:08 |
| @rizen | yes i did look at that before i built spectre | 02:09 |
| xdanger | didn't fit your needs? | 02:09 |
| @rizen | it would have worked great for spectre if i wanted to run spectre stand alone | 02:09 |
| @rizen | but i decided that i wanted to use the webgui nodes | 02:09 |
| @rizen | as the worker bees | 02:09 |
| @rizen | rather than starting seperate worker bee servers | 02:09 |
| @rizen | which is what gearman does | 02:10 |
| xdanger | ok | 02:10 |
| @rizen | i figured you already have the webgui codebase loaded into memory in apache | 02:10 |
| @rizen | why load it again into gearman servers | 02:10 |
| @rizen | just wasting memory...know what i mean? | 02:10 |
| xdanger | and spectres jobs aren't that heavy lifting... we'll maybe mail stuff... | 02:10 |
| Radix-wrk | spectre seems to randomly die on our server - no error messages or anything to say why - I've got a cron job to restart it every morning just in case. | 02:10 |
| @rizen | even mail isn't heavy | 02:10 |
| xdanger | yup | 02:10 |
| @rizen | sorry to hear that radix | 02:11 |
| xdanger | That's what I'm also worried about... | 02:11 |
| @rizen | is there anything in your log that would indicate what's up? | 02:11 |
| Radix-wrk | simple fix at least :) | 02:11 |
| @rizen | also, if you're using the webgui runtime environment | 02:11 |
| @rizen | it will autorestart spectre | 02:11 |
| @rizen | if it dies | 02:11 |
| @rizen | just like it does with apache and mysql | 02:11 |
| xdanger | but you have desinged it "the-right-way" that it runs the jobs when it's restored... | 02:12 |
| Radix-wrk | using WRE here, but not the wremonitor - as it never worked for me | 02:12 |
| Radix-wrk | the wremonitor would continually restart spectre | 02:12 |
| Radix-wrk | still using an older wre tho | 02:12 |
| Radix-wrk | not tried 0.7.2 yet | 02:13 |
| Radix-wrk | and using webgui 7.0.8 | 02:13 |
| @rizen | spectre is much better in later versions | 02:13 |
| @rizen | also, be sure to upgrade to the latest POE and POE::Component::IKC | 02:13 |
| @rizen | as they have fixed a lot of bugs | 02:13 |
| @rizen | that were causing spectre problems | 02:14 |
| Radix-wrk | that in wre 0.7.2? | 02:14 |
| @rizen | yes | 02:14 |
| Radix-wrk | okey.. might have to give that a go sometime then | 02:14 |
| @rizen | but you can also do that from cpan | 02:14 |
| Radix-wrk | we've been pretty happy with our setup, so not needed to upgrade really | 02:14 |
| @rizen | understandable | 02:14 |
| @rizen | once 7.3 comes out stable | 02:14 |
| @rizen | you really should upgrade | 02:15 |
| @rizen | we're fixing lots and lots of bugs | 02:15 |
| @rizen | in this release | 02:15 |
| Radix-wrk | cool | 02:15 |
| @rizen | i'll be announcing my new years resolution for webgui on the dev mailing list in the next week or so | 02:15 |
| @rizen | and it's all about stabilizing webgui | 02:15 |
| @rizen | making it more robust, and speedier | 02:16 |
| Radix-wrk | good to see you on irc a bit more too rizen :) - we're slowly getting more people on irc these days which is nice | 02:16 |
| @rizen | i plan to be on here a lot more | 02:16 |
| @rizen | i was really burned out at the end of last year | 02:16 |
| @rizen | so i needed to take a break for a while | 02:16 |
| Radix-wrk | hehe.. fair enough :) | 02:16 |
| @rizen | i worked for 3 years straight with no vacation | 02:17 |
| @rizen | and you can't do that when you put in the hours i do | 02:17 |
| Radix-wrk | yeah.. webgui 5-7 was a huge undertaking | 02:17 |
| Radix-wrk | you've done a great job tho :) | 02:17 |
| @rizen | thanks. i appreciate it. | 02:19 |
| @rizen | hopefully now that all that's done | 02:19 |
| @rizen | we can get back to building the community again | 02:20 |
| @rizen | and get webgui right back on track to being the best thing out there | 02:20 |
| xdanger | I'm amazed that you just didn't "start for scratch" | 02:20 |
| @rizen | i thought about it | 02:20 |
| @rizen | more than thought about it | 02:20 |
| @rizen | started architecting it | 02:20 |
| xdanger | since you rewrote all of it =) | 02:20 |
| @rizen | but then decided that i would eventually need to migrate all the content | 02:20 |
| @rizen | anywya | 02:20 |
| xdanger | I like most of your ideas... | 02:20 |
| @rizen | also...i figured that a lot of the code is good | 02:21 |
| @rizen | it just needed to be tweaked | 02:21 |
| xdanger | I desinged a hack for you... to implement multi-lingual content and stuff... but didn't have the time to make it readaple.. | 02:21 |
| @rizen | so i decided it would be better to go evolutionary | 02:21 |
| @rizen | rather than revolutionary | 02:21 |
| @rizen | multi-lingual content? | 02:22 |
| xdanger | Our biggest problem is that finland is bilangual country... | 02:22 |
| @rizen | yeah, that's a problem i decided not to tackle | 02:22 |
| @rizen | cuz it was just too hard to do | 02:22 |
| @rizen | without making webgui slower | 02:22 |
| xdanger | Or at least finnish and english... | 02:23 |
| @rizen | if you can come up with some brilliance | 02:23 |
| @rizen | i'd love to see it | 02:23 |
| @rizen | maybe we can make it part of the core | 02:23 |
| xdanger | It can be disabled... but I have to digg up my notes... or my memories about that | 02:24 |
| @rizen | i'm sure you're not the only one that would want that | 02:24 |
| xdanger | I didn't implement it... I was thinking of building on the metadata that you allready have | 02:24 |
| @rizen | ah | 02:25 |
| xdanger | But, then I got to think that a special versioning system on top of the current could be better | 02:25 |
| xdanger | And that language selection could be writen over via simple ?changeLanguage=Fi url call | 02:26 |
| @rizen | well if you get your notes together, i'd love to hear your ideas | 02:26 |
| @rizen | i think it would be awesome if we could support it in a way that wouldn't cause performance issues | 02:26 |
| xdanger | I'll have to see next week... | 02:26 |
| xdanger | I think versioning could do that... | 02:27 |
| xdanger | cache is a problem then.. | 02:27 |
| xdanger | you would have to check that it caches per language + object, not just object | 02:27 |
| xdanger | another problem is administrading it | 02:29 |
| xdanger | how would you edit it and so one... | 02:29 |
| @rizen | that's not a problem at all | 02:30 |
| @rizen | i have a solution for the editing that works pretty elegantly | 02:30 |
| @rizen | i just don't have a solution for storing/retrieving the data in a way that didn't cause massive performance problems | 02:30 |
| xdanger | A smaller obtion is to incorporate a meta tag that identifies what language should be used in the current branch, and tune the system function acording to that.. but this option is just buildin a different branch for each languge, not the "multi-lingual assetData"... | 02:31 |
| @rizen | right, that's what we recommend people doing now | 02:32 |
| @rizen | basically that you build out your english or whatever under one branch | 02:33 |
| xdanger | And many are going to do a different branch anyway... because some don't have identical structure for each language | 02:33 |
| @rizen | then you create a package out of it | 02:33 |
| @rizen | and deploy | 02:33 |
| @rizen | that's also true | 02:33 |
| @rizen | other problems are that sometimes you need the pages to appear in the navigation in a different order | 02:33 |
| @rizen | due to cultural differences | 02:33 |
| xdanger | the problem with the branches is that error's and system texts are in the visitors language, not the branch preferred language.. | 02:34 |
| @rizen | that's a common problem in the US between the english and spanish speaking americans | 02:34 |
| @rizen | true...but that can be fixed pretty easily | 02:34 |
| xdanger | o, didn't even think that... | 02:34 |
| xdanger | What I think is needed is some way to "link" the different lang-brances together... | 02:35 |
| xdanger | saying that en/home and fi/koti are the "same" page in different languages | 02:36 |
| xdanger | And maybe a fallback for some pages... | 02:36 |
| xdanger | well no.. not fallbacks... | 02:36 |
| xdanger | something like shortcut asset that would override the context =) | 02:37 |
| xdanger | I'm just thinking alout here... | 02:37 |
| cap10morgan | stupid question time: once i have the WebGUI::Asset object for my template, it's not clear to me how I grab the actual text of the template (i.e. the contents of the template field in the db) | 02:38 |
| cap10morgan | ah, obj->getValue('template') seems to work nicely | 02:40 |
| @rizen | oh sorry | 02:41 |
| @rizen | yes | 02:41 |
| @rizen | getValue | 02:41 |
| @rizen | or just plain get() | 02:41 |
| @rizen | will also work | 02:41 |
| cap10morgan | cool, thanks | 02:41 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ | 02:44 | |
| xdanger | rizen: one question came to mind... was brushing my teeth... | 02:49 |
| @rizen | k | 02:49 |
| xdanger | Why did you impleme storage in CS? | 02:49 |
| xdanger | and not do the attachments as assets? | 02:49 |
| @rizen | Performance | 02:49 |
| @rizen | They were originally implemented as seperate assets | 02:49 |
| @rizen | but doing that actually caused the viewing of posts to slow down by quite a bit | 02:50 |
| xdanger | This way you can't link to them inside webgui... | 02:50 |
| @rizen | because then i had to query each post for it's childrenn | 02:50 |
| @rizen | i understand that | 02:50 |
| @rizen | that's the downside | 02:50 |
| @rizen | i wanted to implement them as assets | 02:50 |
| @rizen | but it was just too slow | 02:50 |
| @rizen | same reason i switched them back on article as well | 02:50 |
| @rizen | incidentally..you do have the option of not allowing attachments directly on the cs | 02:51 |
| @rizen | and then giving people access to your media folder | 02:51 |
| @rizen | or a folder under media | 02:51 |
| @rizen | to upload their cs attachments to | 02:51 |
| xdanger | couldn't you have just cached the select * from asset where lineage like '000000000100000001000000001%' and (className = 'post' or classname=file) ? | 02:51 |
| @rizen | yes | 02:51 |
| @rizen | that's what i did | 02:51 |
| @rizen | but you're not getting it | 02:51 |
| @rizen | it has to be done per asset | 02:51 |
| @rizen | and more importantly thatn that | 02:52 |
| @rizen | it's not the query | 02:52 |
| @rizen | but the actual instanciation of the object | 02:52 |
| @rizen | just trust me | 02:52 |
| @rizen | it was too slow | 02:52 |
| @rizen | i wrote it | 02:52 |
| @rizen | i know | 02:52 |
| xdanger | ok | 02:52 |
| @rizen | it more than doubled the load time of a 4 post thread | 02:52 |
| @rizen | and it got far worse than that on large threads | 02:53 |
| xdanger | just that couldn't you have left out "the actual instanciation of the object" and just load the right data for the picture in the query... | 02:54 |
| @rizen | that's circumventing the api | 02:54 |
| xdanger | but I think I know why that wouldn't work.. | 02:54 |
| @rizen | which means that i'd forever be updating two code bases | 02:54 |
| xdanger | that "tweaking" =) | 02:54 |
| @rizen | i already have a code base for accessing the data | 02:54 |
| @rizen | yeah | 02:54 |
| @rizen | we have 200k lines of code in webgui | 02:55 |
| @rizen | don't you think that's enough? | 02:55 |
| xdanger | hell no! | 02:55 |
| xdanger | more features ;) | 02:55 |
| Radix-wrk | pfft.. 200k lines is nothing ;) | 02:55 |
| @rizen | for a web app | 02:55 |
| @rizen | that's enormous | 02:55 |
| @rizen | granted...it's no where near the 50m lines of code in MS Vista | 02:55 |
| xdanger | my biggest project was something like 7k + lot of templates | 02:56 |
| xdanger | that was a forum software writen in perl =) | 02:56 |
| @rizen | was it better than the CS? | 02:56 |
| xdanger | It was faster =D | 02:56 |
| xdanger | but no... | 02:56 |
| @rizen | the cs would be faster if it didn't have so many features | 02:56 |
| @rizen | i really need to subclass that thing down | 02:57 |
| @rizen | so it doesn't have to do so much | 02:57 |
| @rizen | or so that it does only what it needs to do in any given context | 02:57 |
| xdanger | rizen: I was thinking of writing a asset called "Gallery" in the spirit of Apache::Gallery... it would take in a folder in webgui tree and make that in to a gallery of it's content... | 02:58 |
| Radix-wrk | we've got about 2m loc here.. all c/c++ code tho | 02:58 |
| @rizen | xdanger...sounds like a great plan | 02:58 |
| @rizen | we could really use a real photo gallery | 02:58 |
| @rizen | provided it was ass kicking | 02:58 |
| @rizen | radix: yeah c is pretty verbose compared to perl though | 02:59 |
| @rizen | =) | 02:59 |
| xdanger | that's my work-around for the cs-pictures-not-in-tree thing =) | 02:59 |
| @rizen | a real photo gallery is on my wish list for webgui | 02:59 |
| @rizen | but there's a lot of things on my wishlist | 02:59 |
| @rizen | and only one of me | 02:59 |
| xdanger | overwriting folder,file and file::image assets... | 02:59 |
| @rizen | we need peeps like you that are willing to contribute | 03:00 |
| Radix-wrk | hey I got a wierd email this morning from plainblack btw | 03:01 |
| xdanger | just that I don't have the time =P | 03:01 |
| Radix-wrk | titled "[bugs] untitled" with the content "has posted to one of your subscriptions | 03:01 |
| Radix-wrk | http://www.plainblack.com/N7oXtEkZG5MJuSM8Gj-vXw" | 03:01 |
| xdanger | ou, yeah... there are weird post popping up on CS... the have untitled as a title and that url | 03:02 |
| Radix-wrk | no name given, and the url doesn't work | 03:02 |
| xdanger | have had that problem with 6.8 ;) | 03:02 |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. just tried to add a wiki page and got told I don't have sufficient privileges :( | 03:04 |
| @rizen | sorry about that cs post | 03:06 |
| @rizen | add a wiki page to what? | 03:06 |
| Radix-wrk | to the community wiki | 03:06 |
| @rizen | are you logged in? | 03:06 |
| Radix-wrk | yep | 03:06 |
| xdanger | rizen: what is causing those posts? | 03:06 |
| Radix-wrk | logged in as Jesse | 03:06 |
| Radix-wrk | at http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki?func=add;class=WebGUI::Asset::WikiPage | 03:06 |
| Radix-wrk | but when I hit Save it tells me Permission Denied - don't have sufficient privileges | 03:07 |
| +crythias | I'm curious about something. | 03:08 |
| @rizen | crap | 03:08 |
| @rizen | yeah, i just saw that | 03:08 |
| @rizen | we just upgraded and there's a new bug it would appear | 03:08 |
| Radix-wrk | okey.. least it isn't just me then :) | 03:09 |
| Radix-wrk | crythias, I'm curious about everything. ;) | 03:09 |
| +crythias | heh. | 03:09 |
| +crythias | There's a news article about CDL... | 03:09 |
| @rizen | crythias: what's up bud? | 03:10 |
| +crythias | Just, where's CDL's mention of WebGUI? | 03:10 |
| @rizen | what do you mean? | 03:10 |
| @rizen | the article mentions webgui several times | 03:10 |
| +crythias | CDL's enthusiasm and resourcefulness with WebGUI recently paid off when they were recognized with a WOW Award from | 03:11 |
| +crythias | http://www.wcet.info/membership/awards/wow.asp | 03:11 |
| @rizen | oh | 03:11 |
| @rizen | true enough | 03:11 |
| @rizen | who knows why it's not there | 03:11 |
| @rizen | it would be nice | 03:11 |
| @rizen | but i certainly can't force them to do it | 03:11 |
| @rizen | it's their award | 03:11 |
| @rizen | not webgui's | 03:12 |
| @rizen | though webgui contributed to it | 03:12 |
| +crythias | certainly agree. | 03:12 |
| Radix-wrk | the WCET guys don't need to know HOW they did the website though in order to see it's good | 03:12 |
| +crythias | really? | 03:12 |
| +crythias | because they aren't using the <tmpl_var header> | 03:13 |
| @rizen | crythias...though it would be nice if you linked to webgui from your site when you win the "WebGUI Contributor of the Year" award this year | 03:13 |
| @rizen | i won't require you to do it | 03:13 |
| @rizen | =) | 03:13 |
| +crythias | all my major sites link to webgui :) | 03:13 |
| +crythias | pcanywhere doesn't link, and norton antivirus free downloads don't link... | 03:14 |
| +crythias | but my faq certainly does :) | 03:14 |
| @rizen | your faq rocks | 03:14 |
| +crythias | Thanks. | 03:15 |
| +crythias | it's getting ... old, though. | 03:15 |
| @rizen | you mean, outdated? | 03:15 |
| +crythias | yeah. | 03:15 |
| Radix-wrk | that's where the wiki would be good to get going | 03:16 |
| +crythias | I haven't had enough 7.x info to rework it. | 03:16 |
| Radix-wrk | we can all try and keep it updated | 03:16 |
| -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable 7.2.3 | beta 7.3.3) | WRE (0.7.2) | Use the Wiki: http://plainblack.com/support/community-wiki | Questions? Ask and wait patiently | Happy New Year everyone! | 03:16 | |
| +crythias | still no News release | 03:17 |
| +crythias | btw.. rizen, who are you and what have you done with JT? | 03:17 |
| Radix-wrk | I just got the sf.net notification ;) | 03:17 |
| @rizen | what do you mean? | 03:17 |
| Radix-wrk | heh | 03:18 |
| +crythias | What did I do to get nice accolades from you? | 03:19 |
| @rizen | what nice accolades? | 03:19 |
| @rizen | you mean the contributor of the year award? | 03:19 |
| xdanger | haha, most used word in this channel is... webgui! 1894 times =P | 03:19 |
| xdanger | weird =D | 03:20 |
| xdanger | usually it's somethinkin like "is" "but" | 03:20 |
| Radix-wrk | Speaking of awards - when's doug's interview going to be up in 'People Behind WebGUI' | 03:20 |
| @rizen | is is is is is is is is is is is | 03:20 |
| xdanger | Ou... maybe the stats generator leaves thouse out... | 03:20 |
| @rizen | perhaps it is is now | 03:21 |
| @rizen | whenever doug fills out his interview | 03:21 |
| xdanger | enjoy: http://mentalhouse.net/irc/webgui | 03:21 |
| @rizen | he'll be here tommorrow | 03:21 |
| @rizen | i'll force him then | 03:21 |
| @rizen | =) | 03:21 |
| @rizen | anyway...gotta go | 03:21 |
| +crythias | http://www.gwy2.org/fomfiles/cache/52.html | 03:21 |
| @rizen | wow xdanger | 03:22 |
| @rizen | very ncie | 03:22 |
| @rizen | ok..now i really need to go | 03:22 |
| Radix-wrk | cool :) | 03:22 |
| Radix-wrk | cya | 03:22 |
| -!- rizen is now known as rizen_afk | 03:22 | |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. another wierd one from plainblack just came through 'Announcement: untitled' | 03:23 |
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| -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable 7.2.3 | beta 7.3.3) | WRE (0.7.2) | Use the Wiki: http://plainblack.com/support/community-wiki | Questions? Ask and wait patiently | http://mentalhouse.net/irc/webgui | 04:30 | |
| @preaction-m | force ME to fill out an interview? do i have to take a pichar too? | 06:01 |
| Radix-wrk | hehe | 06:38 |
| Radix-wrk | yup - or you could pay me to fly over there and take your pic, but you could buy a professional DSLR, nice lens, tripod and remote for that price ;) | 06:39 |
| -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit ["Leaving"] | 06:55 | |
| @preaction-m | but, but, there's a camera on my new compydore | 09:00 |
| Radix-wrk | So what's stopping ya then! :) | 09:17 |
| @preaction-m | nothing really, except the fear of people from New Zealand stalking me | 09:18 |
| Radix-wrk | yeah, kiwi's are a wierd bunch | 09:45 |
| @preaction-m | i suppose since our little soiree starts in 5 hours i should get some sleep... | 09:46 |
| Radix-wrk | nite then :) | 09:48 |
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| -!- Klaus_ [n=klaus_he@p57A58F5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui | 14:05 | |
| --- Log opened Thu Jan 04 17:10:20 2007 | ||
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| -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 9 nicks [3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 6 normal] | 17:10 | |
| -!- Irssi: Join to #webgui was synced in 3 secs | 17:10 | |
| --- Log opened Thu Jan 04 17:52:38 2007 | ||
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| -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 9 nicks [3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 6 normal] | 17:52 | |
| -!- Irssi: Join to #webgui was synced in 3 secs | 17:52 | |
| -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has joined #webgui | 18:00 | |
| ckotil | fuck http proxy | 18:01 |
| ckotil | it shoudl be rewritten....intelligentaly | 18:01 |
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| ckotil | im reall pissed off at http proxy | 18:42 |
| +perlDreamer | why? | 18:42 |
| ckotil | if only i had known the consequences i wouldnt have used it | 18:42 |
| ckotil | its DoS just waiting to happen | 18:42 |
| ckotil | everytime | 18:42 |
| ckotil | granted, since i stopped proxying 30mb syslog files | 18:44 |
| ckotil | the DOS has been slowed down | 18:44 |
| ckotil | but i launced 3 instances of my webcrawler to my site and it killed the box | 18:45 |
| +perlDreamer | and you think it's because of the http proxy? | 18:47 |
| ckotil | i know it is | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | do they all hang on the same URL? | 18:47 |
| ckotil | when it rewrites urls | 18:47 |
| ckotil | the crawler just goes on and on | 18:47 |
| ckotil | and it eventually hits some big ass file | 18:47 |
| ckotil | and then a million httpd proccesses get spawned as a result | 18:47 |
| ckotil | ~50* | 18:47 |
| ckotil | hrm turning off rewrite urls might help | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | well, the http proxy is just a web browser. | 18:48 |
| ckotil | yah. i think it shoudl be more intelligent | 18:48 |
| ckotil | i.e. check the size of files before retrieving them | 18:49 |
| ckotil | if over certain size, then do not proxy them. just link | 18:49 |
| ckotil | that would solve my problems. i think | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | do you hack perl? | 18:50 |
| ckotil | not much. | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | if you filed an RFE with a patch it would probably get accepted more quickly than without it | 18:50 |
| ckotil | yeaha. | 18:51 |
| ckotil | im just not 100% what im proposing would solve my problems | 18:51 |
| ckotil | but i do know for a fact that the proxying of pages is fucking up my chi | 18:51 |
| ckotil | via http proxy | 18:51 |
| +perlDreamer | can you pull that asset from your site or limit it somehow? | 18:52 |
| ckotil | i use it in too many places | 18:52 |
| ckotil | im going through and using iframe or turning off rewrite urls | 18:52 |
| ckotil | thats teh REAL culprit. rewriting urls | 18:53 |
| ckotil | i wish i knew webgui well enough to issue a sql statement turning off rewrite url | 18:55 |
| ckotil | instead of clicking through it all via the web interface | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | in all HTTP Proxy's? | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | that's pretty easy to do | 18:55 |
| ckotil | yes. all. i dont want no stinking rewrite url. im sure it is, but i wouldnt know what tables to look in | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | update HttpProxy set rewriteUrls=0; | 18:58 |
| +perlDreamer | it's just 1 table since it's specific to this Asset. | 18:58 |
| ckotil | mmm. | 18:58 |
| ckotil | thanks man | 18:58 |
| +perlDreamer | no sweat | 18:58 |
| +perlDreamer | just try giving the HttpProxy a hack to limit file sizes and see if it helps | 18:59 |
| ckotil | i dont think it will. | 19:00 |
| ckotil | bc it was freezeing on our weather map whcih is only a couple hundredK | 19:00 |
| ckotil | KB's | 19:00 |
| ckotil | its just the amount of proxying its doing | 19:00 |
| ckotil | the crawler goes deep | 19:00 |
| ckotil | bc it ignores the configuration for some reason. i use htcheck | 19:01 |
| ckotil | will i need to clear the cache after that sql statement? | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | no, but you should restart the server | 19:32 |
| ckotil | k | 19:34 |
| ckotil | i think ive manually turned off url rewrite and the server is holding up now with 2 instances of htcheck | 19:35 |
| ckotil | hamemring the shit out of the site | 19:35 |
| +perlDreamer | just out of curiousity, how many clients is each instance of htcheck simulating? | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | are any of the PB staff around? | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I can fix a bug, but it may slow down the macro processing | 21:27 |
| ckotil | oh man | 22:26 |
| ckotil | wtf. | 22:26 |
| ckotil | http://globalnoc.iu.edu/abilene/research-data/bgp-rib-dumps.html?proxiedUrl=http%3a%2f%2falivealert.com | 22:26 |
| ckotil | http proxy is an OPEN PROXY | 22:26 |
| ckotil | perlDreamer: not sure how many clients each instance creates | 22:27 |
| ckotil | http://globalnoc.iu.edu/abilene/research-data/bgp-rib-dumps.html?proxiedUrl=http%3a%2f%2fplainblack.com | 22:30 |
| ckotil | aww that one didnt work. | 22:31 |
| ckotil | hrmm | 22:31 |
| ckotil | http://globalnoc.iu.edu/abilene/research-data/bgp-rib-dumps.html?proxiedUrl=http%3a%2f%2falterslash.org | 22:33 |
| +perlDreamer | that's not an open relay, that's overriding the default URL. | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | In an open relay, you should be able to fetch the URL of your choice from anywhere. | 23:25 |
| ckotil | i dont see the differnce | 23:31 |
| +perlDreamer | think about it in terms of email | 23:31 |
| +perlDreamer | you want to be able to send and receive email from anywhere | 23:31 |
| +perlDreamer | but you don't want everyone being able to use your email server | 23:31 |
| xdanger | o fuck, and fuck again... my php guy quit... | 23:51 |
| xdanger | and the project is behind schedule... | 23:51 |
| xdanger | yeay! | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't suppose using perl is an option? | 23:53 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizzo] by preaction-m | 17:17 | |
| @preaction-m | ./mode #webgui +o rizzo | 17:17 |
| @rizzo | BUG FIX DAY!!!! | 17:17 |
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| @rizzo | Steve! | 17:18 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o Meatbop] by rizzo | 17:19 | |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o Vrby] by preaction-m | 17:20 | |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o n1cks3rv3sux] by preaction-m | 17:26 | |
| @preaction-m | frank with the high-quality nickname :p | 17:27 |
| @n1cks3rv3sux | nothing is available and now some jackass has registered my nick | 17:28 |
| @preaction-m | ./msg nickserv help | 17:28 |
| @preaction-m | ./msg nickserv help register | 17:29 |
| -!- n1cks3rv3sux is now known as n1ck | 17:36 | |
| -!- n1ck is now known as n1cks3rv3sux | 17:37 | |
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| @preaction-m | someone should give me founder access, or at least access enough to change access levels | 19:11 |
| @preaction-m | so i can add khenn (frank) and meatbot (steve) | 19:11 |
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| bopbop | hello everyone! | 19:12 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o bopbop] by preaction-m | 19:13 | |
| @preaction-m | With great power comes great responsibility: Use your +o wisely | 19:14 |
| -!- preaction was kicked from #webgui by rizen [rizen] | 19:15 | |
| -!- preaction-m was kicked from #webgui by rizen [rizen] | 19:15 | |
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| @preaction-m | :p | 19:16 |
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| perlm | What is driving the extremely rapid development of WebGUI? It seems like a new beta is released every two weeks. | 20:08 |
| @preaction-m | it's more: what is keeping it beta and not stable, and those are bugs | 20:11 |
| @rizen | we have a 1 week maintenance cycle | 20:11 |
| @preaction-m | we're changing from a weekly release cycle i believe, we're in our yearly staff meeting, which is why there's a population here | 20:11 |
| @rizen | meaning, that we put out a new release every week | 20:11 |
| @rizen | the new release is to put out bug fixes | 20:11 |
| @rizen | however, if the bugs are signifcant enough | 20:12 |
| @rizen | then we can't in good concience release it as stable | 20:12 |
| @rizen | so we put out new betas | 20:12 |
| @rizen | so people can test with the newly fixed bugs | 20:12 |
| @rizen | or use the new beta in production if they are either daring or stupid or both | 20:12 |
| @rizen | =)( | 20:12 |
| perlm | I live on the edge. We'll be going production with your Betas :D | 20:12 |
| @rizen | We run our betas as well | 20:16 |
| @rizen | We figure if we can't run it, then no one else should either | 20:16 |
| @rizen | But the difference is, that we know how to fix it if all hell breaks loose | 20:16 |
| @rizen | and most people done | 20:16 |
| @rizen | don't | 20:16 |
| @rizen | so we don't recommend that anyone ever use the betas in production | 20:16 |
| perlm | I'll just make sure to take a snapshot of the DB before we turn the users loose. | 20:17 |
| @preaction-m | recommended with every upgrade | 20:17 |
| @rizen | keep very regular backups | 20:17 |
| @rizen | at least nightly | 20:17 |
| perlm | I'm just pumped that I finally got the okay to migrate to WebGUI. Woot. | 20:18 |
| perlm | Hope the meeting goes well, I'm off to lunch. | 20:18 |
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| --- Day changed Sat Jan 06 2007 | ||
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| @rizen | Doo doo doo do doooo | 00:35 |
| @rizen | Pinky and the Brain | 00:36 |
| @rizen | Pinky and the Brain | 00:36 |
| @rizen | One is a genius | 00:36 |
| @rizen | The other's insane | 00:36 |
| @rizen | They're pinky and the brain | 00:36 |
| @rizen | pinky and the brain | 00:36 |
| @rizen | pinky and the brain brain brain brain brain | 00:36 |
| @snapcount | BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to rizen | 01:06 |
| * snapcount kicks rizen with a stale trout | 01:06 | |
| @rizen | snapcount goes down faster than a thai hooker | 01:07 |
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| @snapcount | weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee | 01:41 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe I should add that particular condition to the macro test to see what's going on. | 01:41 |
| @preaction-m | hooray for public declaration! | 01:41 |
| @snapcount | so the first step is to see if the returned quotes actually break nesting | 01:41 |
| @snapcount | then we discuss RFE or Bug | 01:41 |
| * preaction-m submits a Freedom of Information Act Request | 01:41 | |
| +perlDreamer | what do you wanna know? | 01:42 |
| @preaction-m | eh, just interested to keep watching and input if necesserary | 01:42 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount, I'm pretty sure it's quotes due to the regex on lines 139-141 | 01:42 |
| @rizen | is(1+1, 2, "Check my math."); | 01:42 |
| @preaction-m | 401 Forbidden | 01:43 |
| * perlDreamer is haunted by bad WUC talk examples | 01:43 | |
| @snapcount | JT says it's not an RFE or Bug | 01:44 |
| +perlDreamer | also, btw, I tried caching Macro compiles to get rid of the eval in WebGUI::Macro::process and it actually slowed things down. | 01:44 |
| @snapcount | unless you have a way to fix it that rulez | 01:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I | 01:44 |
| +perlDreamer | uh | 01:44 |
| +perlDreamer | hmmmm.... | 01:44 |
| @snapcount | smarter macro parcer ++ | 01:44 |
| +perlDreamer | Rexexp::Common::Balanced? | 01:45 |
| @snapcount | I'm not familiar with it | 01:45 |
| @snapcount | does it rock your socks off? | 01:45 |
| +perlDreamer | It looks like it could be our smarter parser | 01:46 |
| +perlDreamer | but maybe so could Text::CSV since that's essentially what the macro args are | 01:46 |
| @preaction-m | might I suggest WebGUI::Text qw( :csv );? | 01:47 |
| +perlDreamer | qw(splitCSV) ? | 01:47 |
| @preaction-m | or that, :csv exports them both | 01:47 |
| +perlDreamer | nm, I see the export tag now | 01:47 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry, my bad | 01:47 |
| +perlDreamer | ooh | 01:48 |
| +perlDreamer | need to change that warn to something else using session | 01:48 |
| +perlDreamer | in splitCSV | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction-m: do you want me to log that as a bug or do you want to fix it up? | 01:50 |
| @preaction-m | perlDreamer: no, WebGUI::Text doesn't get a Session object | 01:53 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, it needs one. | 01:53 |
| @preaction-m | we're also doing something different with error handling/trapping | 01:53 |
| @preaction-m | no it doesn't | 01:53 |
| @preaction-m | it would only need it for error handling | 01:53 |
| +perlDreamer | so some errors get thrown to error.log and some get thrown to webgui.log? | 01:53 |
| +perlDreamer | today | 01:54 |
| @preaction-m | basically, at the moment at least | 01:54 |
| @preaction-m | we've got the new WebGUI (Perl) Best Practices book | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | and it recommends handling error logging differently? | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, the only place WebGUI uses bare warn is in the Config.pm | 01:56 |
| @preaction-m | well, it showed that Perl can do try/catch, apparently that was unknown around here :P | 01:56 |
| @preaction-m | and croak and carp for stack traces | 01:56 |
| @preaction-m | so the warn is wrong, it should carp, we might have to redirect $SIG{warn} to output to the proper webgui.log | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | do you want that logged as a bug, then, so we don't forget to do it? | 01:59 |
| @preaction-m | idk, it's not really a bug, it's just sometimes you have to go to the modperl error log to get some errors | 02:00 |
| @preaction-m | perhaps once we decide what's going on with error handling in WebGUI, we'll be able to go back and make sure everything's kosher | 02:01 |
| @preaction-m | perhaps a comment in the source | 02:01 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll let you handle it | 02:01 |
| @preaction-m | kk | 02:01 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll add some more tests to Macro.pm and then see how WebGUI::Text::splitCSV does | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe some benchmarking, too | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | although sometimes slow is better than broken | 02:10 |
| @preaction-m | but fast is better than slow | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | like, breaks faster than breaks slower? | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | most times ;) | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | actually, I won't | 02:16 |
| @preaction-m | indian giver | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | splitCSV does internal escaping differently from the Macro processor | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | for the Macro arg processor, we need something that obeys backslashes | 02:17 |
| @preaction-m | according to the unofficial RFC for CSV | 02:17 |
| @preaction-m | Text::Balanced might be prudent | 02:17 |
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| +perlDreamer | Text::Balanced is slow, at least for extracting codeblocks. | 02:24 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I'll give Text::CSV and Regexp::Common a whirl | 02:24 |
| @preaction-m | Text::CSV will probably pull the same escaping crap | 02:24 |
| +perlDreamer | it does | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | that means it's time to go home and sleep on it for a while | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | g'night, all | 02:29 |
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| @snapcount | Reeeeekollllllllaaaaaaa | 04:35 |
| @rizen | plop plop fizz fizz, oh what a relief it is | 04:36 |
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| * snapcount yawns | 17:21 | |
| @snapcount | top of tha mornin to everyone | 17:21 |
| Radix__ | evenin' ;) | 17:21 |
| @snapcount | ahh yes | 17:21 |
| @snapcount | Australia still hasn't fixed their sun being out of synch with Florida problem | 17:22 |
| @snapcount | =) | 17:22 |
| Radix__ | yeah.. we need a daylight saving + 12 or something I guess | 17:23 |
| Radix__ | we're having enough of a problem with daylight saving + 1 atm ;) | 17:24 |
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| --- Day changed Sun Jan 07 2007 | ||
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| perlm | anyone know any tricks for installing DBIx::FullTextSearch on a vanilla Fedora Core 5 machine/ | 02:00 |
| @rizen | it's a bastard to install on any platform | 02:00 |
| @rizen | that's why webgui doesn't use it anymore | 02:00 |
| perlm | it is still required in testEnvironment.pl | 02:04 |
| perlm | so I guess that means it is okay that I forced it to install even with errors. | 02:04 |
| @rizen | in what version? | 02:04 |
| perlm | latest beta | 02:04 |
| perlm | 7.3.3 | 02:04 |
| @rizen | hmm...i'll check that out | 02:04 |
| @rizen | thanks for letting me know | 02:05 |
| @rizen | it's out in 7.3.4 | 02:05 |
| @rizen | as of now | 02:05 |
| perlm | de nada | 02:05 |
| perlm | heh, cool | 02:05 |
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| rizen_ | test | 18:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | morning | 19:04 |
| @rizen | is it really morning? | 19:04 |
| +perlDreamer | it is out here | 19:04 |
| @rizen | it feels like bedtime | 19:04 |
| @rizen | me = tired | 19:04 |
| +perlDreamer | up late? | 19:05 |
| @rizen | no...just a little sick | 19:05 |
| @rizen | which has been draining me for the last couple of weeks | 19:05 |
| @rizen | almost over it now thow | 19:05 |
| @rizen | though | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | weeks? That's nutz. | 19:06 |
| @rizen | yeah | 19:06 |
| @rizen | sux | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I tried to fix Klaus's double header bug, and think I found the cause of it, but want to double check it with someone more familiar with chunking and header generation. Game? | 19:07 |
| @rizen | k | 19:07 |
| @rizen | first | 19:08 |
| @rizen | what is the bug | 19:08 |
| @rizen | point me to a url or something | 19:08 |
| Klaus_ | Hi! | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/head-block-displayed-twice#3tLVLsiwMsgY0ZCULum18A | 19:08 |
| Klaus_ | the entry in the Extra Header field of a style is displayed doube in source. | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | Klaus_: we should have you fixed up in a jiffy | 19:09 |
| Klaus_ | I think we had this bug in one of the 6er versions already fixed. | 19:09 |
| @rizen | it doesn't sound familiar | 19:10 |
| @rizen | there was a problem where | 19:10 |
| @rizen | you could get double HTTP headers | 19:10 |
| @rizen | but HTTP headers are different than head block tags | 19:10 |
| @rizen | and the double http headers were fixed a while ago | 19:10 |
| @rizen | ok...so you have a possible solution here | 19:11 |
| @rizen | what is it? | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | remove line 193 from WebGUI::Session::Style.pm | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | uh, 198 | 19:11 |
| @rizen | 198 out of svn or version 7.3.3? | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | svn | 19:12 |
| Klaus_ | My workaround was writing the tags direct into the style, not into the extra field below - but thank you for the hint removing this line from code.- | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | well, I'm not sure there won't be some undesired side effects | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | that's why I'm double checking with someone | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | it looks dead simple, but I don't fully understand content chunking and the header generation | 19:13 |
| @rizen | the prepare() method is always called on every template as it is rendered | 19:14 |
| @rizen | and as you say, that does shove the head block into place | 19:14 |
| @rizen | so yes, we no longer need that line in Style.pm | 19:14 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 19:14 |
| @rizen | it's a relic of a day gone by | 19:14 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll add a new test or two to Session/Style.pm and remove the line. | 19:14 |
| Klaus_ | tests on solved bugs were always good. | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Yeah, I'm embarassed to say that the present Style.pm test (which I wrote) didn't find this earlier. | 19:16 |
| @rizen | you can't find everrything colin | 19:16 |
| @rizen | don't beat yourself up about it | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | this time :) | 19:16 |
| Klaus_ | yes. but the meanwhile huge test suite gives an additional confidence on webgui. great! :-) | 19:18 |
| @rizen | klaus, do you write perl? | 19:18 |
| Klaus_ | a litte bit. still learnig - even from webgui code. | 19:19 |
| @rizen | we''re always looking for eagle eyed people to help us make webgui better | 19:19 |
| @rizen | i hope you'll consider joining the core developers, writing bug fixes, tests, and eventually new features | 19:20 |
| @rizen | one of the best ways to learn perl is to start out writing tests | 19:21 |
| @rizen | because tests are easy to write | 19:21 |
| @rizen | and in doing so, you get to look at a whole lot of the codebase | 19:21 |
| @rizen | thusly learning both perl | 19:21 |
| Klaus_ | oh yes - I will do. Helping more than only reporting bugs and REFs. | 19:21 |
| @rizen | and the webgui api | 19:21 |
| @rizen | don't get me wrong, reporting bugs and rfe's is great too | 19:21 |
| Klaus_ | I can give it a try in writing or improoving some of the tests. | 19:23 |
| @rizen | that would be great | 19:23 |
| @rizen | if you need assistance, colin and i are both around most of the time | 19:23 |
| Klaus_ | the next days im trying to bring the German translation into a productive state. The German usergroup is a bit small and inactive. | 19:24 |
| @rizen | are you using the translation server to do it? | 19:24 |
| @rizen | http://i18n.webgui.org/ | 19:25 |
| @rizen | may make it easier if you aren't | 19:25 |
| Klaus_ | I'v used it the last months, now I've set up my own | 19:25 |
| Klaus_ | Sometimes it's better to sreach and replace things over the whole translation. | 19:26 |
| Klaus_ | On your server I can't do it on the translated files. | 19:27 |
| @rizen | give me the specs for what you want to do and i'll be happy to add the functionality to the translation server | 19:27 |
| @rizen | the reason i like the translation server | 19:27 |
| @rizen | is that everyone can pitch in to work on the changes | 19:27 |
| @rizen | rather than having just one person do it | 19:28 |
| @rizen | it's easier to do as a group | 19:28 |
| Klaus_ | Import an translation | 19:28 |
| Klaus_ | Won't it be good having the translation server password protected so that not everone could change things? | 19:29 |
| @rizen | people have said that to me, but i kind of look at it as a wiki | 19:29 |
| @rizen | in that it works better as a community project | 19:29 |
| @rizen | if it's password protected, then all of the sudden it's back to a single user per translation | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | we're probably small enough that we don't have to worry about wikiSpam (or translationSpam) yet. | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | although someone did trash PDX.pm's wiki a few months ago | 19:30 |
| @rizen | i know it's possible, but we have backups | 19:31 |
| @rizen | and community process on a task this large | 19:31 |
| @rizen | is more important than worrying about spam | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | crud. I found a FC6 bug. | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Either that or I need to install the FC6 perl-image-magick RPM | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I probably won't be able to get the patch committed until this afternoon. | 19:33 |
| @rizen | what patch? | 19:33 |
| @rizen | the style one? | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 19:34 |
| @rizen | i can do that right now | 19:34 |
| @rizen | i'll do it | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, I'll commit the new test later | 19:34 |
| Klaus_ | One possible way could be a "commit to svn" function in the translation server. The translators will better notice the changes from others. | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | That's a good idea. That way translators could also sign up to get notification when commits are made. | 19:35 |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui | 19:36 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ | 19:36 | |
| Klaus_ | BTW there are two entries for German that point to the same files: /German"/ and /German/. Could you please delete the Entry with the quotation marks? | 19:36 |
| @rizen | yup | 19:36 |
| @rizen | the quote version is gone | 19:40 |
| @rizen | the patch is committed | 19:40 |
| Klaus_ | thanks! | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm off to church. Be back later. | 19:43 |
| +perlDreamer | Thanks, JT | 19:43 |
| @rizen | later | 19:43 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] | 19:43 | |
| +MrHairgrease | \nick MrAFKGrease | 20:07 |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAFKGrease | 20:07 | |
| @rizen | i've almost got the commit to svn option working | 20:08 |
| +MrAFKGrease | commit to svn from what? | 20:12 |
| Klaus_ | I've ssen it. | 20:13 |
| Klaus_ | Commit to SVN from the translationserver. | 20:13 |
| +MrAFKGrease | is there a translation server? | 20:13 |
| +MrAFKGrease | fr 18n files? | 20:13 |
| @rizen | yup | 20:13 |
| @rizen | i18n.webgui.org | 20:13 |
| +MrAFKGrease | oh cool | 20:13 |
| @rizen | http://i18n.webgui.org | 20:13 |
| +MrAFKGrease | were updating all the i18n stuff | 20:14 |
| Klaus_ | or http://translation.webgui.org/ ;-) | 20:14 |
| @rizen | sweet | 20:14 |
| +MrAFKGrease | 7.3.3 is ready | 20:14 |
| @rizen | if you give me the files you've worked on so far, i can import them into the translation server | 20:14 |
| @rizen | that is, if you want to | 20:14 |
| Klaus_ | JT, should I mail you my actual translation to import it into the translatinserver? | 20:14 |
| Klaus_ | Ok :-) | 20:14 |
| @rizen | sure | 20:14 |
| +MrAFKGrease | ok | 20:14 |
| +MrAFKGrease | i'll send em to you tonight | 20:15 |
| +MrAFKGrease | actually it is a ducth community project | 20:15 |
| +MrAFKGrease | 10 people or so are working on it | 20:15 |
| +MrAFKGrease | i'm just tarring everything up =) | 20:15 |
| +MrAFKGrease | other question | 20:16 |
| +MrAFKGrease | i'm gonna add a start stop button to the timetracker | 20:16 |
| +MrAFKGrease | for use within oqapi | 20:16 |
| +MrAFKGrease | does that have any chance of making it into webgui? | 20:16 |
| @rizen | your entire translation team is welcome to use the translation server | 20:16 |
| @rizen | what is oqapi? | 20:17 |
| @rizen | regardless, ,yes ii'm find with start/stop | 20:17 |
| @rizen | but not until we fork for 7.4 | 20:17 |
| +MrAFKGrease | oh you didn't know yet? | 20:18 |
| +MrAFKGrease | procolix split in three divisions | 20:19 |
| +MrAFKGrease | sepearte companies | 20:19 |
| +MrAFKGrease | koen's keeping procolix | 20:19 |
| +MrAFKGrease | joeri's started oqapi | 20:19 |
| +MrAFKGrease | I've gone with Joeri | 20:19 |
| xdanger | I could contribute our unfinished Finnish-language... | 20:19 |
| @rizen | xdanger: more than happy to put it on the translation server, maybe you'll get some extra helpers to work on the translation | 20:20 |
| xdanger | nice | 20:20 |
| +MrAFKGrease | rizen: I'll throw it in the group | 20:20 |
| xdanger | I'll send it to you tomorrow in a tar | 20:20 |
| +MrAFKGrease | the translation server thing | 20:20 |
| @rizen | no, i didn't know about the slip | 20:20 |
| +MrAFKGrease | I reckon everybody is ok with it | 20:20 |
| @rizen | split | 20:20 |
| @rizen | is everyone mad at eachother? | 20:21 |
| +MrAFKGrease | no | 20:21 |
| @rizen | or is all well in dutch land? | 20:21 |
| +MrAFKGrease | all is well | 20:21 |
| @rizen | that's good to hear | 20:21 |
| +MrAFKGrease | yeah | 20:21 |
| @rizen | i assume koen is the hosting/server guy | 20:21 |
| +MrAFKGrease | as an added benefit there's beer in the fridge again | 20:21 |
| @rizen | joeri is the dev guy | 20:21 |
| +MrAFKGrease | yeah | 20:21 |
| +MrAFKGrease | albert ha | 20:21 |
| +MrAFKGrease | albert now has his own testing company | 20:21 |
| @rizen | cool | 20:22 |
| +MrAFKGrease | sure | 20:22 |
| +MrAFKGrease | I'm happy with it | 20:22 |
| +MrAFKGrease | no fights or whatever | 20:22 |
| @rizen | beer in the fridge is good | 20:22 |
| +MrAFKGrease | just natural progression | 20:22 |
| +MrAFKGrease | it is | 20:22 |
| +MrAFKGrease | a pity that i only at the office one day a week | 20:22 |
| @rizen | it goes without saying that if you're ever in need of a job, i've got your back | 20:23 |
| +MrAFKGrease | sure | 20:23 |
| +MrAFKGrease | I'm very busy with starting to do my graduation stuff | 20:23 |
| +MrAFKGrease | and will be for a year or so | 20:23 |
| +MrAFKGrease | but no worries | 20:23 |
| +MrAFKGrease | I won't abandon webgui | 20:23 |
| @rizen | so, does oqapi have some spare resources? | 20:24 |
| @rizen | i think we're going to need to outsource a project or two coming up | 20:24 |
| +MrAFKGrease | maybe | 20:24 |
| @rizen | actually...what's joeri's email address | 20:24 |
| +MrAFKGrease | ask joeri | 20:24 |
| @rizen | i'll just have vrby contact him | 20:25 |
| +MrAFKGrease | joeri aat oqapi dot nl | 20:25 |
| @rizen | coolio | 20:25 |
| +MrAFKGrease | gotta go cooking | 20:25 |
| +MrAFKGrease | see ya | 20:25 |
| -!- MrAFKGrease is now known as MrReallyAFKGreas | 20:26 | |
| --- Log opened Sun Jan 07 20:56:17 2007 | ||
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| +MrHairgrease | jt | 21:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | two suggestions | 21:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | 1) in our ducth translation server we default to the textarea | 21:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | the htmlarea adds to much crap | 21:02 |
| @rizen | you can set it however you want | 21:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | you get buttons containing texts like Save<br /> | 21:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | I know | 21:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | just a suggestion | 21:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | also I hacked the thing to include 'motivational' status stuff | 21:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | see http://geefmegeld.nl/root/vertaal | 21:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | for examples | 21:03 |
| @rizen | do you have the source | 21:04 |
| @rizen | oh crap | 21:04 |
| @rizen | nevermind | 21:04 |
| @rizen | yours is based upon the old translation server | 21:05 |
| @rizen | i'll have to write it from scratch | 21:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's trivial to implement | 21:06 |
| @rizen | yeah | 21:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | I know the dutch translation team liked it a lot though | 21:06 |
| @rizen | i'll do it | 21:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | cool | 21:07 |
| @rizen | yeah | 21:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | the commit to svn function is for countering vandalism? | 21:09 |
| @rizen | yes | 21:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 21:09 |
| @rizen | well partially | 21:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | we were afraid for that | 21:09 |
| @rizen | also for going back in case of screwups | 21:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's why we put the i18n thing behind a realm | 21:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | also that helps consistency | 21:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | brb | 21:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | consistency as in translate this word with that one | 21:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | english -> dutch is not exactly non-abiguous =) | 21:11 |
| @rizen | true true | 21:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | so we set up a word list on webgui.nl | 21:12 |
| @rizen | the problem is that most communities | 21:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | anyway | 21:12 |
| @rizen | unlike the dutch team | 21:12 |
| @rizen | are disjointed and small | 21:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'm babbling right now =) | 21:12 |
| @rizen | so we really need to allow lots of people to join in the translation process | 21:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure enough | 21:12 |
| @rizen | that's why we can't password protect it | 21:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | i think so too | 21:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'll propose the thing | 21:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | you'll hear the result | 21:13 |
| @rizen | k | 21:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | regardless of that a very recent version is tarred up in the contrib area on pb.com | 21:13 |
| @rizen | yeah, i'm not worried about that | 21:13 |
| @rizen | more that the dutch translation is a good example of | 21:13 |
| @rizen | "how it's done" | 21:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | meaning? | 21:14 |
| @rizen | you guys are the defacto international leaders | 21:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | i know | 21:14 |
| @rizen | you do everything first, and best | 21:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | comes with the territory =) | 21:14 |
| @rizen | martin: sarah says hi | 21:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | somehow there's just a big wg-user density in the netherlands | 21:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | hi sarah | 21:15 |
| @rizen | motivators in place | 22:02 |
| Klaus_ | Where/in which Asset are the promote/demote icons/functionality used in WebGUI? | 22:15 |
| @rizen | all assets use them | 22:15 |
| Klaus_ | where do they show up? | 22:15 |
| @rizen | inherited from the superclass | 22:16 |
| @rizen | the icons aren't used anymore, only the functionality | 22:16 |
| @rizen | the icons are now only used by some assets for their collateral | 22:16 |
| Klaus_ | OK, I thought I'm blind ;-) | 22:17 |
| @rizen | the promote/demote stuff can be found under the class icon of any asset | 22:17 |
| @rizen | in the inline view | 22:17 |
| Klaus_ | OK, thanks - I've found them(data form fields)... For translating it's good to see the text/tooltip in its environment. | 22:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | cool jt | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | would it also be possible to display the actual number of messages that are done/changed/new | 22:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | just like in the example | 22:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | There seems to be a bug too | 22:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | RedNeck / Form_Captcha | 22:53 |
| @rizen | what's the point of showing the actual numbers? it's just a feelgood indicator, right? | 22:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure | 22:53 |
| @rizen | gives you an idea of how close you are to done | 22:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | still only one to go | 22:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 22:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | i you'll do it right you use the actual number of characters or something | 22:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | but that would be insane | 22:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 22:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | i just used the number of messages | 22:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | The RedNeck / Form_Captcha is saying it's at 50% but it is actually at 0% btw | 22:56 |
| @rizen | yeah, that's your fault | 22:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | what have i done? | 22:57 |
| @rizen | it just couldn't be my fault | 22:57 |
| @rizen | cuz i'm perfect | 22:57 |
| @rizen | so it must be you | 22:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 22:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | i c | 22:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | in that case it's Koens fault | 22:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | we agreed on that a year ago or so | 22:58 |
| @rizen | that's true | 22:58 |
| @rizen | ok | 22:58 |
| @rizen | his fault | 22:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 22:58 |
| @rizen | koen's bug is fixed | 23:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | very good | 23:07 |
| @rizen | so with the percentages | 23:08 |
| @rizen | would you rather see 6/50 | 23:08 |
| @rizen | rather than the percentages | 23:08 |
| @rizen | i just don't want to waste a lot of screen realestate | 23:08 |
| @rizen | i just put it in | 23:10 |
| @rizen | and it looks much uglier | 23:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's why i put the percentages on the left side | 23:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | and all teh other data on the right | 23:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you don't scroll you don't see it | 23:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's just for the eager people | 23:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | another idea might be to put de numbers on top of the right hand frame | 23:12 |
| @rizen | your mom's a nitpicker | 23:12 |
| @rizen | and she dresses you funny | 23:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | and the percentages on the lft hand side | 23:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's true | 23:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | how'd you figure that out | 23:12 |
| @rizen | alright, i put the ratio on the right now | 23:14 |
| @rizen | and on the detail page | 23:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 23:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | that looks cool | 23:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | thanks | 23:15 |
| @rizen | thank you for smoking | 23:15 |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAFKGrease | 23:22 | |
| Radix__ | funny movie that one | 23:57 |
| --- Day changed Mon Jan 08 2007 | ||
| +MrAFKGrease | which movie? | 00:09 |
| @rizen | thank you for smoking | 00:10 |
| +MrAFKGrease | is that a movie? | 00:11 |
| @rizen | yup | 00:11 |
| +MrAFKGrease | the things you learn after 2300 | 00:11 |
| Klaus_ | sounds like I should have a look at the movie: http://imdb.com/title/tt0427944/ | 00:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | any clues on how to find out what this is: | 02:54 |
| +perlDreamer | has posted to one of your subscriptions | 02:54 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/Cm61332q9p9Sv_BxrjyXnQ | 02:54 |
| +perlDreamer | It's from noReply@plainblack.com | 02:54 |
| @rizen | is it reported as a bug yet? | 02:54 |
| @rizen | if not, then no | 02:55 |
| @rizen | it's something i'm going to have to go through the database and try to find | 02:55 |
| Radix-wrk | I got a couple of those too | 02:55 |
| +perlDreamer | kind of | 02:55 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/problems-with-emails-from-install/upgrade-forum#zGTWsPb2x0BybrTKHrJdzg | 02:55 |
| +perlDreamer | although knowmad reports that he got a username, while this one was empty | 02:56 |
| +perlDreamer | it's like a workflow didn't get set up right somehow but still executed | 02:56 |
| Radix-wrk | I got two emails myself | 02:56 |
| @rizen | probably depends on what was shooting out the email as to what gets put in the email | 02:56 |
| Radix-wrk | plainblack.com | 02:56 |
| @rizen | either way it's something that shouldn't be happening | 02:57 |
| @rizen | if the bug is reported, then thats all you can do | 02:57 |
| @rizen | we have to take over from there | 02:57 |
| +perlDreamer | good luck! | 02:58 |
| +perlDreamer | also, I like the new email on the dev list | 02:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll start reading Perl/WebGUI Best Practices soon | 02:58 |
| @rizen | glad to hear it | 02:58 |
| +perlDreamer | do we have an expected time for the 7.4 branch? | 02:59 |
| @rizen | each time you ask me that i add a week | 02:59 |
| * perlDreamer -- | 02:59 | |
| @rizen | infinity + 2 weeks | 02:59 |
| @rizen | thats when it will be happening | 03:00 |
| +perlDreamer | bugList < 5? | 03:00 |
| @rizen | infinity + 2 weeks, i've already told you | 03:00 |
| @rizen | but since you formed that as a question | 03:00 |
| @rizen | infinity + 3 weeks | 03:01 |
| @rizen | so we have some amazing contests scheduled for this year | 03:01 |
| @rizen | we're bringing back the webgui community contest (wcc) | 03:02 |
| +perlDreamer | cool! | 03:02 |
| +perlDreamer | there are other contests, too? | 03:02 |
| @rizen | roy should be announcing the first one next week | 03:03 |
| @rizen | no..the community contest is all of the contests | 03:03 |
| @rizen | instead of being once per year | 03:03 |
| @rizen | it's going to be once every 2 months | 03:03 |
| @rizen | we were going to do it every month, but we figured that might not give people enough time to work on stuff | 03:03 |
| +perlDreamer | even two months is pretty quick for some big projects | 03:04 |
| @rizen | none of them will be very big | 03:04 |
| @rizen | at least that's the plan | 03:04 |
| @rizen | keep them reasonable to achieve | 03:05 |
| +perlDreamer | did the content compression (which won the last WCC) ever get folded in? | 03:05 |
| @rizen | that's a good question | 03:05 |
| @rizen | i don't know | 03:05 |
| @rizen | actually, i think no | 03:05 |
| @rizen | because we decided to do something more efficient | 03:05 |
| @rizen | which was adding gzip functionality to the wre | 03:05 |
| @rizen | it's far more efficient than having webgui do it | 03:06 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 03:06 |
| @rizen | if i remember right | 03:06 |
| @rizen | when we benchmarked it | 03:06 |
| @rizen | mod_deflate was 6 times faster | 03:06 |
| @rizen | than the code in webgui | 03:06 |
| @rizen | and on top of that, it compressed stuff in the /extras and /uploads folders as well | 03:07 |
| +perlDreamer | that's a lot faster | 03:07 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: is there any sense in me working on the Product Asset docs? | 03:13 |
| @rizen | for the time being, yes | 03:14 |
| @rizen | because commerce dev is put on hold | 03:14 |
| @rizen | until after we've achieved my new years resolution | 03:15 |
| @rizen | even after that, the product asset will likely continue to have all of it's current features | 03:15 |
| @rizen | it will just also tie into the commerce system | 03:15 |
| +perlDreamer | cool, thanks | 03:16 |
| +perlDreamer | as far as I know, there are still no project for $dayJob next week, so I'll have lots of time on my hands | 03:16 |
| @rizen | sweet | 03:16 |
| @rizen | use that time to read pbp | 03:17 |
| @rizen | =) | 03:17 |
| @rizen | at least until 7.4 is branched | 03:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I was thinking about this: http://jobs.perl.org/job/5148 | 03:18 |
| +perlDreamer | so I'll be spending a little time writing a resume | 03:18 |
| @rizen | nah, you don't want that job | 03:20 |
| @rizen | they'll be paying you way too much | 03:20 |
| @rizen | =) | 03:20 |
| +perlDreamer | I saw that and figured the posting was some kind of joke | 03:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I've never seen salaries like that before | 03:21 |
| @rizen | when i used to work for $bigCompany I made $that++ | 03:21 |
| +perlDreamer | not only is the salary too high, but there'd be no interstitial times for wG hackery | 03:22 |
| @rizen | they're going to want a lot out of someone | 03:22 |
| @rizen | for that much money | 03:22 |
| @rizen | cuz usually when you get that high in salary | 03:22 |
| @rizen | either they're expecting you to do 2 jobs + | 03:23 |
| @rizen | or it's a management job | 03:23 |
| @rizen | and the job description isn't a management job | 03:23 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 03:23 |
| +perlDreamer | All the percentages add up to 100, but it doesn't talk about hours/days | 03:24 |
| @rizen | it also doesn't talk about how many other people you'd be working with to do that job | 03:24 |
| @rizen | it could be that the current owner dood | 03:24 |
| @rizen | does all the work | 03:24 |
| @rizen | and needs to offload it to someone | 03:24 |
| @rizen | so he can do the new software | 03:24 |
| @rizen | but for that much money | 03:25 |
| @rizen | you should check it out at least | 03:25 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 03:25 |
| +perlDreamer | hack perl | 03:25 |
| +perlDreamer | stay at home | 03:25 |
| +perlDreamer | let Kathy go to mid-wife school | 03:25 |
| +perlDreamer | get done in 3 years | 03:25 |
| +perlDreamer | instead of 7 | 03:25 |
| +perlDreamer | dinner time, be back later | 03:30 |
| @rizen | svn commits for the translation server are now in place | 04:24 |
| Klaus_ | good thing. what's the meaning of a yellow line background in the right window? | 04:29 |
| @rizen | that means there's something there, but it's out of date | 04:30 |
| Klaus_ | it seems you've also found a solution for the annoying trailing <br /> from the rich editor | 04:34 |
| @rizen | you mean, allow the user to disable it? | 04:34 |
| Klaus_ | they were not longer automatically added at the end of a (singe line) translation or was it luck when I tested it | 04:38 |
| @rizen | probably luck | 04:39 |
| Klaus_ | :-) | 04:39 |
| Klaus_ | OK, was a long day. Time for bed. | 04:39 |
| @rizen | later | 04:39 |
| Klaus_ | not for me... | 04:40 |
| @rizen | i mean, see you later | 04:40 |
| Klaus_ | ohh. yes. bye! | 04:41 |
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| +perlDreamer | rizen: Want to do some bug triage? You up for it? | 05:21 |
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| @khenn | happy monday! | 19:31 |
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| @preaction-m | snapcount: /msg chanserv access #webgui add preaction 30 <-- do it! :p | 19:36 |
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| @snapcount | tada | 19:38 |
| @snapcount | np | 19:38 |
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| @khenn | anything going on today? | 21:05 |
| @preaction-m | alumni project, i've got a few ideas about some ease-of-use for developers | 21:05 |
| @preaction-m | a nice script i want to make for switching between webgui instances on a dev box | 21:06 |
| ckotil | coo | 21:17 |
| ckotil | l | 21:17 |
| ckotil | We have a database that contains all of the contact info for customers, logins, etc... | 21:18 |
| ckotil | I would like for webgui's user list to be pulled from that database. How hard is that to do? | 21:18 |
| @preaction-m | you could write a custom auth plugin | 21:19 |
| ckotil | already use one. | 21:19 |
| ckotil | for CAS | 21:19 |
| ckotil | 'central authentication system' developed at yale. then we put our own spin on it | 21:20 |
| ckotil | but it works nicely with webgui | 21:20 |
| ckotil | but i want my users to be pulled from our database. how would i populate webgui's user list? | 21:20 |
| @preaction-m | you want to migrate? | 21:21 |
| ckotil | no. i want to have a single location to store my customers info | 21:21 |
| ckotil | and users. | 21:21 |
| ckotil | its all in a single database now. | 21:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | you mean sync profiles with that db? | 21:22 |
| ckotil | exactly | 21:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | you should have a look at the syncldapprofile workflow activities | 21:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | there are two | 21:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | one is called when a user activates him/herself | 21:23 |
| ckotil | ldap. k thats what i was thinking. ill go speak with my db guy . thanks | 21:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | the other is run by the cron workflow | 21:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you don't have ldap available | 21:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | just create your own plugin | 21:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | and use the ldap as example | 21:23 |
| ckotil | good deal. | 21:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | it is | 21:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 21:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | reuse is the best eufemism for legal stealing | 21:25 |
| @preaction-m | it's not illegal if you release the source | 21:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's why i said legal | 21:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | not illegal | 21:25 |
| @preaction-m | in fact, the viral nature of the GPL requires that any custom code you write for webgui has to be released upon request | 21:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | only code you distribute | 21:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | and i can charge for the code | 21:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | or better said | 21:26 |
| @preaction-m | no, anything that works with webgui must be released under the GPL | 21:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | the deliverance cost o | 21:27 |
| @preaction-m | but yes, you can charge for it | 21:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | of the code | 21:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | gpl is a distribution license | 21:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | so if i keep the stuff inhouse | 21:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | i don't have to release it | 21:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | now of course | 21:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | fo webgui this is not a problem at all | 21:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | everything you distribute | 21:28 |
| @preaction-m | and since PB distributes WebGUI with it, you must abide by it, one of the caveats of it is that anything you write that uses WebGUI must be GPL | 21:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | ships with the source automatically | 21:28 |
| @preaction-m | that's why i usually release code under the LGPL | 21:28 |
| @preaction-m | doesn't have the over-reaching viral nature of the GPL | 21:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes | 21:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | but if you write your auth thingy | 21:28 |
| @preaction-m | it uses webgui's API, which means you must GPL | 21:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | and just dploy it at your work only | 21:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | i cannot ask for the code | 21:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | b/c you don't distribute it | 21:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gpl | 21:33 |
| +MrHairgrease | under the section 'common misconceptions' | 21:33 |
| +MrHairgrease | first item | 21:33 |
| @preaction-m | the last paragraph of the GPL seems to indicate my position, but it's ambiguous and misleading | 21:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 21:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | those damn hippie software developers =) | 21:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | anyway | 21:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | the gpl vs. lgpl thing is much less of an issue | 21:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | with perl code | 21:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | since when you distribute | 21:40 |
| @preaction-m | indeed... hippie and nerd seem mutually exclusive | 21:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | you always ship the code | 21:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | huh? | 21:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | have you ever seen a picture of rms? | 21:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | now if that isn't a hippie =) | 21:41 |
| @preaction-m | yes, i needed eye bleach | 21:41 |
| @khenn | You can build and sell plugins for WebGUI w/o it violating the GPL | 22:24 |
| @khenn | if you add anything to WebGUI's core, you cannot legally repackage and sell it w/o contributing it back | 22:25 |
| @khenn | that's the difference | 22:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | b/c plugins are not linked againstr the core? | 22:25 |
| @preaction-m | you can sell the plugin, but not bundled with webgui, unless your plugin is also licensed GPL | 22:25 |
| @khenn | right | 22:25 |
| @preaction-m | the wikipedia article cleared all that crap up for me | 22:26 |
| @khenn | I updated the Asset installer so that you can use .tmpl files rather than having to hardcode your templates right in the install code at the bottom | 22:29 |
| @khenn | well not the Asset installer | 22:30 |
| @khenn | but the code at the bottom of the Asset Template | 22:30 |
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| @khenn | I haven't added it yet | 22:30 |
| @khenn | b/c it's like 200 extra lines of code | 22:30 |
| @khenn | oh, it also commits all the templates so you don't have tags from "visitor" | 22:30 |
| @khenn | which is pretty confusing | 22:30 |
| @preaction-m | I like the updater more, the template editor inside webgui is clunky :p | 22:30 |
| @khenn | yeah, it's nice to work with files | 22:31 |
| @khenn | and then just -MWebGUI::Asset::Wobject::MyWobject update | 22:31 |
| @khenn | or I think I had to call it upgrade | 22:31 |
| @khenn | b/c of naming conflicts | 22:31 |
| @khenn | but if anyone wants the code, I'll be happy to post it somewhere | 22:32 |
| @khenn | I think we will eventually add an install API to WebGUI | 22:32 |
| @preaction-m | you could use a seperate package inside the module, say WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::MyWobject::install, then have the subs be part of that | 22:32 |
| @preaction-m | so you'd "use WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::MyWobject;" and then call "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::MyWobject::install::update" | 22:33 |
| @khenn | yeah I dunno | 22:33 |
| @khenn | ok so who is everyone out here? I know some of you | 22:35 |
| @khenn | MrHairgrease is obvious =p | 22:35 |
| @khenn | perlDreamer is Colin, right? | 22:35 |
| @preaction-m | radix is Jesse | 22:35 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 22:35 |
| @khenn | ok | 22:35 |
| @khenn | this is Frank btw | 22:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | xdanger is yukka | 22:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | he is this dude from Finland | 22:36 |
| @khenn | right | 22:36 |
| xdanger | Jukka | 22:36 |
| @preaction-m | PedersenMJ is a walk-in, iirc | 22:36 |
| @preaction-m | perlbot botsnack | 22:36 |
| perlbot | whatever. | 22:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | sry | 22:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | I meant Jukka | 22:36 |
| +perlDreamer | howdy frank | 22:37 |
| @khenn | howdy | 22:38 |
| +perlDreamer | haven't seen you in here before | 22:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | now that everybody is here anyway | 22:38 |
| @khenn | I'm usually rizzo | 22:38 |
| @khenn | I've been here | 22:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | what do you think? | 22:38 |
| @khenn | but someone stole my nick | 22:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | tabs or spaces | 22:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | and how many | 22:38 |
| @khenn | spaces | 22:38 |
| +perlDreamer | 4 spaces | 22:38 |
| @khenn | 4 | 22:38 |
| +perlDreamer | ala PBP | 22:38 |
| @khenn | I usually use 3 | 22:38 |
| @khenn | but I can hack 4 | 22:38 |
| @preaction-m | i've already updated my vimrc to do 4-space tabs | 22:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | you guys are insane =) | 22:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | tabs are obviously the way | 22:39 |
| +perlDreamer | you can always use perltidy to locally reformat it | 22:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | _teh_ way * | 22:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 22:39 |
| @khenn | tabs are too modern =) | 22:39 |
| @preaction-m | i'd prefer 8, and tabs instead os spaces, but vim does this automagically so it's no skin off my nose | 22:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 22:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | but the idea is that everybody uses the same convention | 22:39 |
| @khenn | most languages use spaces | 22:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | or tabs | 22:40 |
| xdanger | tabs ;) | 22:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | most lanuages don't care | 22:40 |
| xdanger | python does... ? | 22:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I think so, just to determine level of indentation | 22:40 |
| +perlDreamer | since whitespace matter in python | 22:41 |
| * perlDreamer shudders | 22:41 | |
| @khenn | I'm talking C++ (which is the only REAL language) =p | 22:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | ouch | 22:41 |
| @preaction-m | pfft... use C | 22:41 |
| @khenn | well PERL is essentially C | 22:41 |
| xdanger | But does it do some s/ /\t/; kinda stuff also =) | 22:41 |
| @khenn | so ... | 22:41 |
| @khenn | Ansi C? | 22:41 |
| @khenn | ha | 22:41 |
| @preaction-m | perlbot capital | 22:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | anybody using emacs here? =) | 22:41 |
| @preaction-m | perlbot capital Perl | 22:41 |
| perlbot | Perl is the language, perl is the program, there is no PERL. See perldoc -q 'difference between'. | 22:41 |
| +perlDreamer | vim is the way | 22:41 |
| ckotil | heh, nano/pico | 22:42 |
| @khenn | my capslock got stuck =p | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | so who is ckotil in real life? | 22:42 |
| ckotil | me | 22:42 |
| ckotil | o | 22:42 |
| ckotil | chad kotil | 22:42 |
| @preaction-m | i will give serious props to those who can program efficiently in nano | 22:42 |
| ckotil | im not efficient | 22:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | I always use vim in ed mode =) | 22:42 |
| ckotil | emacs and vi confuse me | 22:43 |
| +perlDreamer | MrHairGrease: It's a good start. It's like drinking light American Beer. | 22:43 |
| +perlDreamer | instead of the real thing | 22:43 |
| ckotil | ive learned emacs in the past, but then a couple months went by and i forgot all the shit | 22:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | what's good about that? | 22:43 |
| +perlDreamer | at leasty you're drinking beer | 22:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | I once tried emacs | 22:43 |
| ckotil | light beer is like fucking in a row boat | 22:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | and couldn't get out of the help screen | 22:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | kill -9 did the job though | 22:44 |
| ckotil | its fucking pretty close to water. | 22:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I couldn't figure out how to quit emacs | 22:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | i also tried light beer once | 22:44 |
| @preaction-m | lol ckotil | 22:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | on the first wuc | 22:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | that was a onetimer too | 22:44 |
| ckotil | exactly you need a cheat sheet | 22:44 |
| @khenn | Someday I'll be all Linuxish like you guys, but until then I like my GUI windows crap | 22:45 |
| @preaction-m | the secret to vim is a good vimrc | 22:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | so use eclypse | 22:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | eclipse | 22:45 |
| @preaction-m | and i need to get frank into vim at least, or barring that a decent editor (not Homesite...) | 22:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | prereaction-m++ | 22:45 |
| @preaction-m | jEdit would suffice | 22:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | vim sucks the first day | 22:45 |
| @khenn | I can use vim | 22:46 |
| @khenn | I just prefer not to | 22:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | but after that you cannot live without oit | 22:46 |
| +perlDreamer | use gvim, it will let you keep a GUI | 22:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | use whatever you like | 22:46 |
| @khenn | I enjoy my dev tools like split screens and line numbers | 22:46 |
| @preaction-m | vim has those | 22:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | set number | 22:46 |
| @preaction-m | ctrl+w n <- split the window | 22:46 |
| @preaction-m | ctrl+w <down arrow> move to window down, <up arrow> move to window up, etc... | 22:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | and besides | 22:47 |
| @preaction-m | use :h C-w <- for more information | 22:47 |
| @khenn | as opposed to simply pressing the split screen icon? | 22:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | who can work with an editor that cannot navigate with hjkl | 22:47 |
| @khenn | I have enough to remember =p | 22:47 |
| @preaction-m | exactly | 22:47 |
| @preaction-m | it's about creating instincts, like PBP | 22:48 |
| @preaction-m | like using screen, or any program for that matter | 22:48 |
| @preaction-m | i'm using my newly paid-for Parallels to finally make the complete switch to vim, from jedit | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | so your on a mac | 22:49 |
| @preaction-m | macbook pro. the first laptop i've actually liked | 22:49 |
| ckotil | they're nic | 22:49 |
| ckotil | e | 22:49 |
| ckotil | i work on a new imac core2duo | 22:49 |
| ckotil | 21" widescreen | 22:49 |
| @preaction-m | nice | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | they're too expensive for me | 22:49 |
| ckotil | im trying to get hooked up with a macbook | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | but i bought a vaio | 22:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | from the evil sony empire | 22:50 |
| ckotil | fukcing heater is on for no reason. | 22:50 |
| -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit ["HOT"] | 22:50 | |
| @preaction-m | this is the company's lappy, otherwise I'd be on my old-school AMDk7 2800+ running Ubuntu Edgy | 22:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | i run a 1800+ | 22:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | with kubuntu though | 22:51 |
| +perlDreamer | gotta run to a meeting | 22:51 |
| +perlDreamer | be back later | 22:51 |
| @khenn | ok, so how do I turn on color coding in vim? | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | later | 22:51 |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as perlDreamer_afk | 22:51 | |
| +perlDreamer_afk | :syn on | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | syntax on | 22:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | same thing | 22:52 |
| @khenn | how do I unsplit the damn screen now? | 22:52 |
| @preaction-m | :q | 22:52 |
| @khenn | ok well screen splitting sucked =p | 22:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | complain more | 22:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | so what ide thing do you use then frank? | 22:53 |
| @khenn | I use Homesite mostly | 22:54 |
| @khenn | one step up from a text editor | 22:54 |
| @khenn | just the way I like it | 22:54 |
| @khenn | an old version too | 22:54 |
| @khenn | not the crap they have out now | 22:54 |
| @khenn | 4.5 | 22:54 |
| @khenn | can you undo in vim? | 22:54 |
| @khenn | that would be useful to know | 22:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | u | 22:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | im vim 7 you can also say | 22:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | :earlier 10s | 22:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | which will get you back 10 secs in time | 22:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | or later: 1h | 22:55 |
| @khenn | will that do all of the work I will do over the next hour? | 22:55 |
| @khenn | that would be pretty sweet | 22:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | something like that | 22:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | if your drunk =) | 22:56 |
| @khenn | I'll just do later: 8h and take the day off | 22:56 |
| @khenn | =) | 22:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | maybe jt will buy it | 22:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's how i do my job | 22:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 22:56 |
| @khenn | I have vim 6.3 | 22:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | that only supports u | 22:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | :help undo | 22:58 |
| xdanger | I use subethaedit =P | 23:09 |
| xdanger | on mu 3 years old ibook 1G | 23:09 |
| xdanger | on my | 23:09 |
| @khenn | I use windows. I'm just uncool like that | 23:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | we know =) | 23:10 |
| xdanger | I've been planning to move to gvim7, but it's not quite there yet... on the matter of mac os x integration.. | 23:11 |
| --- Day changed Tue Jan 09 2007 | ||
| -!- perlDreamer_afk is now known as perlDreamer | 00:06 | |
| +perlDreamer | boy it got quiet all of a sudden | 00:46 |
| @khenn | yeah | 00:48 |
| @khenn | I said the 'W' word | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | are you staying busy? | 00:48 |
| @khenn | yes | 00:49 |
| @khenn | we are very busy right now | 00:49 |
| @khenn | how bout yourself? | 00:49 |
| @khenn | I hear you are on vacation or something? | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | we're inbetween projects, so I'm way bored | 00:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | you are bored? | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | muy | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | mucho | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | zehr | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | very | 00:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | i've been reading papers all day | 00:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's really boredom | 00:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | but some weird kind of numbness | 00:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's sehr btw | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I only speak German, not write it | 00:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | i usually only read it | 00:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | when i speak german | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | are you reading papers for your school project? | 00:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | germans usually do not understand me | 00:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | graduation | 00:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | i just started | 00:52 |
| Klaus_ | wyh try you not to be understood? | 00:52 |
| +perlDreamer | His American accent throws him off | 00:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | i try very hard to be understood | 00:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | and sometimes i succed | 00:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | but usually my girlfriend hijacks the conversation | 00:53 |
| Klaus_ | I have no problems with my German... | 00:53 |
| Klaus_ | OK - sometimes... | 00:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | she's better at foreign languages i guess | 00:53 |
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| +MrHairgrease | only in oktober right?=) | 00:53 |
| Klaus_ | all the year- and right now... | 00:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | i see | 00:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | you know what | 00:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'm gonna get me my own dutch speech impedimen | 00:54 |
| Klaus_ | what's a impedimen? | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | impediment | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | difficulty | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | disability | 00:55 |
| Klaus_ | Ah. | 00:55 |
| Klaus_ | to improove your | 00:56 |
| Klaus_ | German | 00:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | actually to improve my belgian | 00:56 |
| Klaus_ | do you like to help on Webgui translation? ;-) | 00:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | whatever | 00:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | nein | 00:57 |
| Klaus_ | Damn! | 00:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | verdammt! | 00:57 |
| Klaus_ | Sehr gut! | 00:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | genau | 00:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | now if we only had jukka to flabbergast us with some Finnish the evening would be perfect | 00:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 00:58 |
| Klaus_ | Webgui is missing a babelfish function. | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | Porque no hablamon in Espanol? | 00:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | No man | 00:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | I don't speak no portugese =) | 00:59 |
| +perlDreamer | Not Spanish either? :) | 00:59 |
| @khenn | I fluently speak every language except for Greek | 00:59 |
| Klaus_ | I gave Spain a chance some years ago. | 00:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | never been there | 00:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | did you like it? | 01:00 |
| Klaus_ | The langauge. Yes. But you mentioined: girls are better in languages. | 01:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | my girl is | 01:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | compared to me | 01:01 |
| Klaus_ | she has adopted Perl Best Practices to foreign languages? | 01:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 01:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'm better in babling | 01:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | so i'm better at perl | 01:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 01:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | my guess is she doesn't even wan to touch the book | 01:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | anybody read the Perl Hacks book btw? | 01:04 |
| Klaus_ | i can imagine. | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | Went to the author's presentation at OSCON last year. | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | Does that count? | 01:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 01:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | don't think so | 01:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | I like it a lot though | 01:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | the book that is | 01:05 |
| Klaus_ | Not right now in my bookshelf | 01:05 |
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| Klaus_ | I've just ordered it at the library. | 01:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | cool | 01:08 |
| Klaus_ | Author is Conway - he worte the book on oject oriented perl? | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | Author is chromatic | 01:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | indeed | 01:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | conway wrote oop | 01:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | and pbp iirc | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 01:10 |
| Klaus_ | Oh - it's the German translation I've ordered. | 01:11 |
| Klaus_ | anyone read Extreme Perl? http://www.extremeperl.org/ | 01:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 01:15 |
| Klaus_ | I had a look on it some yers ago, but it seems still to be not yet completed. | 01:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | but hey | 01:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's free | 01:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 01:16 |
| Klaus_ | I wanted to print the pdf version. Downloaded the pdf A4 version but it was in Letter format. | 01:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | no big deal | 01:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | just sloppy | 01:19 |
| Klaus_ | I had a HP printer that needed pressing a button after each page... | 01:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | that does suck | 01:19 |
| xdanger | Klaus_: http://www.extremeperl.org/f/extremeperl-a4.pdf | 01:40 |
| xdanger | the link in the pages still point to letter version... | 01:41 |
| Klaus_ | things never will change. world stands still. sometimes ;-) | 01:44 |
| Klaus_ | I remember I had emailed that to the author. | 01:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | later guys | 02:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | Klaus_: did you get any farther on the nested macro bug on your end? | 02:00 |
| Klaus_ | No yet. No time, I had to do a lot of other stuff today. xsl-fo/pdf hacking. Will last for a fiew days. | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | You know xsl-fo? | 02:02 |
| Klaus_ | yep. | 02:03 |
| Klaus_ | and svg | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I've been wanting to make a PDF of the online wG help, but everything I've tried is either proprietary or bad. | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | Do you have any pointers for someone wanting to start with xsl-fo? | 02:04 |
| Klaus_ | install fop, for documentation use http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/compliance.html some often wanted features are not yet supported. | 02:05 |
| Klaus_ | producing pdf out of the dokus with fop/xsl-fo I can help. | 02:07 |
| Klaus_ | having your all-in-one help file as a valid and well formed xml file it will be easy. | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | most of it is XHTML clean | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | so going the next step to XML should be easy | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | time for me to go home | 02:20 |
| Klaus_ | some small modifications and then perhaps tidfying will prepare the xml source. I will try do make a pdf prototype tomorrow or the next day. | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | tomorrow? That would be awesome! | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks Klaus! | 02:20 |
| Klaus_ | me too. time for bed. its 1:30 | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | Gute Nacht | 02:21 |
| Klaus_ | Danke. Wünsche ich Dir auch. | 02:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | morning, all | 18:41 |
| @rizen_afk | morning | 18:41 |
| -!- rizen_afk is now known as rizen | 18:42 | |
| +perlDreamer | did you read Ehab's post to the new year's resolution? | 18:42 |
| @rizen | not yet, let me check | 18:43 |
| @rizen | blah blah blah | 18:44 |
| @rizen | it's the same shit he's always spouting off about | 18:44 |
| @khenn | I got 2 sentences in and decided it was a waste of time to continue | 18:45 |
| @rizen | the second half is more interesting | 18:45 |
| +perlDreamer | I didn't get what he said about extending the free hosting period. | 18:45 |
| @rizen | he's talking about the demo | 18:45 |
| +perlDreamer | oh | 18:45 |
| +perlDreamer | for bug fixing, it would be nice to have a more persistent demo, but it's something that can also be scripted for a dev. | 18:46 |
| @rizen | the problem with it is that we get 1200 new demos per day | 18:47 |
| @rizen | and when a new release comes out that's more like 2000 new demos per day | 18:47 |
| @rizen | so there's a disk usage component there | 18:48 |
| @rizen | in addition, and this is the bigger one | 18:48 |
| @rizen | spammers like to use the free demo area to upload pages to use in their spam bots | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | oy | 18:48 |
| @rizen | by cleaning them up every tday we eliminate that | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we should have a captcha for demo creation | 18:48 |
| @rizen | captcha isn't foolproof | 18:49 |
| @rizen | maybe it would help | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | you're right | 18:49 |
| @rizen | but honestly, there's no reason to expand the demo that i can see | 18:49 |
| @rizen | he said we should do it | 18:49 |
| @rizen | but he didn't say wy | 18:49 |
| @rizen | why | 18:49 |
| @rizen | why would making the demo sites stick around longer increase community | 18:49 |
| @khenn | I read it | 18:50 |
| @rizen | i'll respond to him later | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | you're already doing docs | 18:50 |
| @rizen | i have to think of a nice way to say "no fucking way" to the wre suggestion he made | 18:50 |
| @preaction-m | it wouldn't work for the WRE, but it would be possible for someone to maintain a package-managed version of the WebGUI source | 18:51 |
| @rizen | the whole reason we've made the wre is that making packages for every platform is rediculously time consuming | 18:51 |
| +perlDreamer | would it be possible to reduce the WRE to a set of configs and scripts only? | 18:51 |
| @rizen | right, "someone" | 18:51 |
| @rizen | but that someone is not us | 18:51 |
| @preaction-m | exactly | 18:51 |
| @khenn | right | 18:51 |
| @khenn | I do think there should be an installer | 18:52 |
| @preaction-m | well, not officially us. maybe me if i get bored one night | 18:52 |
| @khenn | possibly install anywhere or something like that | 18:52 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer: yes it is, but then installing the wre becomes amazingly difficult | 18:52 |
| @khenn | not sure if there's a free one of those | 18:52 |
| @rizen | because every system is different | 18:52 |
| @rizen | frank, the new wre will have an installer | 18:52 |
| @rizen | i've already said that | 18:52 |
| @rizen | in my new years resolution | 18:53 |
| @rizen | but it will be a home-brew one | 18:53 |
| @rizen | because there isn't a good free cross-platform one out there | 18:53 |
| @rizen | plus, i want it written in perl | 18:53 |
| @khenn | ah | 18:54 |
| @preaction-m | CGI or CLI? | 18:54 |
| @khenn | home brew! | 18:54 |
| @rizen | it will be cgi | 18:54 |
| @rizen | or more probably, POE/CGI | 18:54 |
| @preaction-m | oooooh | 18:54 |
| @khenn | it won't be cool unless it has a splash screen =p | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, Steve...! | 18:54 |
| @rizen | it will have a splash screen...that photo of me with the axe that i took for colin | 18:55 |
| @rizen | that will be the splash screen | 18:55 |
| @preaction-m | some ominous text "Your Web Solution Executes Now!" | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | "He didn't use WebGUI." | 18:55 |
| @khenn | "Please wait as we assimilate your system" | 18:56 |
| @rizen | getting back to the wre without prereqs thing for a second | 18:58 |
| @rizen | the whole idea of the wre is to give the "it just works" factor to webgui | 18:58 |
| @rizen | the wre without prereqs will require the user to install 10 billion things | 18:58 |
| @rizen | there's no sense of 'it just works' with that | 18:59 |
| +perlDreamer | that's true | 18:59 |
| +perlDreamer | and hackers can always extract the configs and scripts if they want to stay with disti-level software | 19:00 |
| @khenn | unless we figure out a way to allow people to install / upgrade without having to do anything but type some stuff in, there will always be peopl who "can't figure it out" | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | shouldn't the use hosted solutions? | 19:00 |
| @khenn | ie ehab's request | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | "shouldn't they" | 19:00 |
| @khenn | yum WebGUI | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | or apt-get WebGUI | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | yast WebGUI | 19:01 |
| @khenn | right | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | emerge WebGUI | 19:01 |
| @khenn | fuckinginstall WebGUI | 19:01 |
| @khenn | I like that one | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | exactly | 19:01 |
| @khenn | =) | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | disti level package management kills us in the ISV arena | 19:01 |
| @khenn | if it's homebrewed, we can make it work | 19:01 |
| @khenn | 1) download WebGUIsetup7-3-4.pl | 19:03 |
| @khenn | 2) make sure you are root | 19:03 |
| @khenn | 3) run ./WebGUIsetup7-3-4 | 19:04 |
| @khenn | 4) done | 19:04 |
| @khenn | something along those lines | 19:04 |
| @preaction-m | i believe there already is an emerge WebGUI (but it might be outdated) | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | but does it setup MySQL and apache like the WRE? | 19:05 |
| @preaction-m | durno, i hate gentoo | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not fond of it either | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | all those poor electrons being sacrificed to compile the same software over and over | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a waste | 19:06 |
| @rizen | nothing out there does what the wre does | 19:07 |
| @rizen | the wre isn't just the utility scripts | 19:07 |
| @rizen | it's also the way we compile stuff | 19:07 |
| @rizen | we compile out the stuff you don't need | 19:07 |
| @rizen | so that you just have exactly what you do need | 19:07 |
| @rizen | then we configure it all such that it's pretuned to work for webgui | 19:08 |
| @rizen | in the best way possible | 19:08 |
| @rizen | for most situations | 19:08 |
| @rizen | and then on top of all that | 19:08 |
| @rizen | we give you some nifty utilities to make day to day administration easier | 19:08 |
| @rizen | no matter how much we worked on individual package systems | 19:09 |
| @rizen | we wouldn't get what we have with the wre | 19:09 |
| @rizen | because we would have to use their precompiled versions of things | 19:09 |
| @rizen | or we'd have to fight with their precompiled versions of thigns | 19:09 |
| @rizen | either way...not as good | 19:09 |
| @rizen | and on top of that | 19:10 |
| @rizen | we'd have all the dev time | 19:10 |
| @rizen | building out tthe package management system | 19:10 |
| @rizen | for every environment | 19:10 |
| @rizen | rather than taking the slackware approach | 19:10 |
| @rizen | of just giving them a tarball that works | 19:10 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction-m: you around? | 20:26 |
| @preaction-m | yes'm | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | Have you fixed the gateway problem in the new Calendar? | 20:27 |
| @preaction-m | i'm not sure, it's not in the Event object that I can see | 20:27 |
| @preaction-m | I added a "url" key to the getTemplateVars method | 20:27 |
| @preaction-m | i've got to look through the Calendar itself and see if it's the one doing it | 20:28 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, Kristi posted a bug about it, and I was thinking that if you'd already fixed and committed we could close it | 20:28 |
| @preaction-m | but before then I have to write a script to help me switch between webgui sources (I've got like three that I need to constantly switch between, it's getting annoying) | 20:28 |
| @preaction-m | yup, it's my current priority until John messages me back about his 7.x upgrade | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | cool. | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | Once I finish this CentOS demo at work, I can spend the rest of the day doing wG hackery. | 20:30 |
| @preaction-m | word | 20:30 |
| @preaction-m | does anyone still have that list of bugs that need to be fixed before 7.3 can go stable? there's now a lot of stuff in 7.3 that people are clamoring for | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | I think Roy may have posted it to the dev list | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | check the archives | 20:31 |
| @preaction-m | k | 20:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | are we scheduled for a 7.3.4 tomorrow, or are we holding off? | 20:39 |
| @snapcount | tomorrow morning | 20:39 |
| @snapcount | preaction-m is doing the release this week | 20:39 |
| @snapcount | cross-training++ | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll pray for him | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | releases aren't easy | 20:40 |
| @snapcount | heh, it's an adventure | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | you've done some automation for them? | 20:40 |
| @snapcount | yeah it's automated quite a bit | 20:40 |
| @snapcount | preparing svn can be tricky when there's a branch | 20:41 |
| @snapcount | but this release will be pretty easy | 20:41 |
| * perlDreamer chomps at the bit for 7.4 | 20:42 | |
| +perlDreamer | I would like to be an RFE fiend for 7.4 | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | get rid of the last few remaining javascript-less confirmation screens | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | Help system improvements | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | all pending approval, of course | 20:45 |
| @khenn | you can always add it locally and wait to check it in ... | 20:47 |
| @khenn | I guess that gets kinda mess though with merges and such | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, plus I'm overhauling the docs all the time | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | I could make a separate branch just for that, thought | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | I was only able to carve out 1 Gb for $dayJob hackery | 20:48 |
| @preaction-m | and just merge on tuesdays? | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | it doesn't really matter when you merge, although frequently is better than infrequently | 20:50 |
| @snapcount | I believe all of the JS confirmation RFE's came from JT | 20:50 |
| @preaction-m | indeed | 20:50 |
| @snapcount | so they are approved | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | JT typed them in from SourceForge | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | so they have his ID | 20:50 |
| @snapcount | oh I see | 20:50 |
| @snapcount | I thought they made a user called sourceforge for that | 20:50 |
| @snapcount | in any case, just post to dev and say I want to commit RFE x, y, z | 20:51 |
| @snapcount | we trust your code | 20:51 |
| @snapcount | =) | 20:51 |
| @snapcount | I'm sure the response will be "ok" | 20:52 |
| @preaction-m | he has svn access, i sure hope you trust his code :p | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | fe@r my l33t hacking skillz | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | of course we need a stinking branch | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | and before that we need a stinking stable release | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | sigh* | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | vicious cycle | 20:52 |
| @preaction-m | i think we should branch right after minor releases, so 7.4 will have a branch, and head will continue development | 20:53 |
| @preaction-m | so bugfixes can be backported | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | the reasons we don't are: | 20:53 |
| @preaction-m | but opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | 1) to keep people focused on making a release stable | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | and not just working on cool stuff | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | 2) merging to branch/head on every commit is a pain in the ass | 20:54 |
| @preaction-m | pardon me if i call bullshit on (1) | 20:54 |
| @snapcount | so we delay that as long as possible | 20:54 |
| @snapcount | bullshit? there is no bullshit here | 20:54 |
| @snapcount | only happiness and kittens | 20:54 |
| @preaction-m | (2) is just as easy as "svn diff > patch.txt" before you commit, then "patch -p0 < patch.txt" in the branched stable | 20:54 |
| @snapcount | yes | 20:55 |
| +perlDreamer | or svn merge -r rev1:rev2 | 20:55 |
| @snapcount | and svn commit is easier | 20:55 |
| @snapcount | I didn't say how much harder (2) was =) | 20:55 |
| +perlDreamer | I can't find the list of show stopper bugs for 7.3 on the dev list | 20:55 |
| @snapcount | wow | 20:55 |
| @snapcount | irony | 20:55 |
| @preaction-m | something has to give, in some way it will be made more difficult | 20:55 |
| @snapcount | prolly a bug | 20:55 |
| +perlDreamer | is it just bug volume? | 20:56 |
| +perlDreamer | ug | 20:56 |
| @preaction-m | whether it be by using another program that does the SVN commits, or by doing the steps above | 20:56 |
| +perlDreamer | that's a bug, too | 20:56 |
| +perlDreamer | when I replied via email, it created a new thread | 20:56 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: If I remember correctly, we need to fix all the Calendar and WIki bugs | 20:57 |
| +perlDreamer | how about RSS? | 20:57 |
| @snapcount | the CS bug that I specified preaction-m has fixed | 20:57 |
| @snapcount | is it broken? | 20:57 |
| @preaction-m | i'm worrking on one of the calendar bugs (the one reported by kristie and alafondo) | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/rss-generation-not-working-in-cs#e3L-Yrd3aeEdtPwGLVc9XQ | 20:58 |
| @snapcount | oh yeah | 20:58 |
| @snapcount | that's that new quasi-asset thingy | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | hey, there's another bug we can close: | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/resolved-rfes-appearing-in-search-results#wJJyZzLJd8I0M6tvbnUuCw | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | Roy, if you have time, please check it out and see if it's related to the same behavior in the bug system | 20:59 |
| @snapcount | not sure that's a bug | 20:59 |
| @snapcount | think of it in the context of the forums | 21:00 |
| @snapcount | closed issues you'd want to find | 21:00 |
| @snapcount | as well as closed bugs, so you know if they were found/fixed | 21:00 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 21:00 |
| +perlDreamer | good point | 21:00 |
| +perlDreamer | should we close it out? | 21:00 |
| @snapcount | might be nice to add an RFE to limit results to one or the other | 21:00 |
| @snapcount | yes | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll do that with the RFE suggestion. | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | yay! One less bug | 21:01 |
| @snapcount | rock on | 21:01 |
| @snapcount | ok... back to other crap for a while | 21:01 |
| @snapcount | I'll peak in again in a bit | 21:02 |
| -!- snapcount is now known as snap_away | 21:02 | |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as perlDreamer_lunc | 21:21 | |
| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui | 21:56 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ | 21:56 | |
| -!- snap_away is now known as snapcount | 22:22 | |
| @snapcount | Paging rizen of the Smiths whom hail from the land of cheese and dairy | 22:46 |
| @snapcount | preaction-m: you need to see if your bot can run the UNO game | 22:47 |
| @snapcount | otherwise we'll have to off it in favor of an eggdrop bot | 22:47 |
| @preaction-m | perlbot is custom source, not eggdrop or anything else | 22:48 |
| @snapcount | we also need to get seen, and calc going again | 22:48 |
| @rizen | don't page me | 22:48 |
| @preaction-m | freenode has seenserv | 22:48 |
| @preaction-m | perlbot seen rizen | 22:48 |
| @snapcount | blah | 22:48 |
| @snapcount | can I hail you? | 22:48 |
| @preaction-m | perlbot doesn't | 22:48 |
| @rizen | no hailing, paging, or yelling at me | 22:49 |
| @snapcount | what if I whisper | 22:49 |
| @rizen | you can bow before me if you want though | 22:49 |
| @snapcount | I want to know how you want something to work | 22:50 |
| @snapcount | so I can uhh, make it work | 22:50 |
| @snapcount | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/wiki-deleting-pages#1N7SMyGT56ji8X2z6qc4zg | 22:50 |
| @rizen | deleted pages suck | 22:51 |
| @snapcount | indeed | 22:51 |
| @snapcount | so a new "suck" flag in the schema should do the trick | 22:51 |
| @rizen | i assume you already added the delete confirmation, right? | 22:52 |
| @rizen | so now all we need to solve is the recent pages thing? | 22:52 |
| @snapcount | not yet... was going to fix it all at once | 22:52 |
| @snapcount | you just the recent pages | 22:52 |
| @snapcount | all I need you for | 22:52 |
| @snapcount | just wasn't sure how it should work | 22:52 |
| @rizen | it needs to do one of two things | 22:52 |
| @rizen | i'll let you decide which you'd rather do | 22:52 |
| @rizen | a) when a page is deleted, don't show that entry in the recent changes log | 22:53 |
| @rizen | or any revisions of it in the recent changes | 22:53 |
| @rizen | b) show "Page deleted by X on 1/13/2006" without linking the title | 22:54 |
| @rizen | but then add a (Restore) link in parens | 22:54 |
| @rizen | that undeletes it | 22:54 |
| @snapcount | only wiki admins see restore correct | 22:54 |
| @rizen | right | 22:54 |
| @snapcount | ok | 22:54 |
| @snapcount | thx homey | 22:54 |
| @rizen | not your homey | 22:54 |
| @snapcount | you can be my "dogg" | 22:55 |
| @preaction-m | if only wiki admins can see "restore" then only they should be able to delete | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | note the double g | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | that's how it is preaction-m | 22:55 |
| @rizen | right, only wiki admins should be able to delete | 22:55 |
| ckotil | sure thing iggy popp | 22:55 |
| @preaction-m | k, making sure | 22:55 |
| @rizen | i won't be your dogg either | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | gawd... | 22:55 |
| @rizen | if you were from australia, i'd be your mate | 22:55 |
| @rizen | but you're not | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | whoa | 22:55 |
| @rizen | so you can't do that either | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | "check please" | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | hehe | 22:56 |
| @rizen | cuz "mate" means something totally different here | 22:56 |
| ckotil | heh | 22:56 |
| @rizen | tell you what snapcount | 22:56 |
| @preaction-m | roy's from FL, can he be your rich, senile, elderly relative? | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | ouch | 22:56 |
| @rizen | i'll be happy to be "the thorn in your side" | 22:56 |
| @rizen | or "the thing that should not be" | 22:57 |
| @rizen | or "a pain in your ass" | 22:57 |
| @snapcount | oh... btw, I think Koen is interested in sponsoring a demo server | 22:57 |
| @snapcount | he posted to the dev list about it | 22:57 |
| @rizen | yeah and i posted a response | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | ok you can be the "pain in the ass" cuz I can abbreviate it easily | 22:58 |
| @rizen | sponsoring a demo server doesn't do anyone much good though | 22:58 |
| @rizen | cuz it doesnt' solve any existing problems | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | ahh | 23:00 |
| @snapcount | damn spammers | 23:00 |
| @snapcount | I think it's cool that he offered though | 23:01 |
| -!- perlDreamer_lunc is now known as perlDreamer | 23:04 | |
| @rizen | i just asked him if he'd be interested in running forge.webgui.org | 23:07 |
| @snapcount | sweet | 23:07 |
| @rizen | instead of setting up a seperate demo server that doesn't serve any need | 23:07 |
| @rizen | forge.webgui.org would be really cool | 23:07 |
| @rizen | but the problem i've seen so far is | 23:07 |
| ckotil | pronounced for-hey ? | 23:07 |
| @rizen | that there are no good free forge packages out there | 23:07 |
| @rizen | i looked into buying source forge for webgui | 23:08 |
| @rizen | and it was going to be 10k or something rediculous | 23:08 |
| ckotil | ah.jeezus | 23:08 |
| ckotil | we have a source forge account for one of our apps. router proxy | 23:08 |
| ckotil | i cant believe it would have costed that much | 23:08 |
| @rizen | we have a source forge account for webgui too | 23:08 |
| ckotil | is it 10 grand because of the complexity of webgui? | 23:08 |
| @rizen | but i mean to run a seperate forge system for webgui | 23:09 |
| ckotil | i see. | 23:09 |
| @rizen | if you're just out on sourceforge.net | 23:09 |
| @rizen | it's free | 23:09 |
| @rizen | but if you want to run your own forge | 23:09 |
| @rizen | that's when they charge you | 23:09 |
| * ckotil nods | 23:09 | |
| ckotil | s/rape/charge | 23:09 |
| @rizen | indeed | 23:09 |
| @snapcount | preaction-m: what time do you want to get started tomorrow on the release? | 23:22 |
| @snapcount | need to start by 9a your time cause I have to get other stuff done | 23:23 |
| @snapcount | but we can start earlier if you would like | 23:23 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat048.mxim.com] has left #webgui [] | 23:23 | |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat048.mxim.com] has joined #webgui | 23:24 | |
| @snapcount | nice of you to join us again perlDreamer | 23:24 |
| perlDreamer | you intercepted a Ctrl-W | 23:24 |
| @preaction-m | snapcount: 9a sounds good | 23:24 |
| @snapcount | preaction-m: coolio, I'll skype you | 23:24 |
| @snapcount | the first step of the release you need to do now though | 23:25 |
| @snapcount | email dev list and tell them no commits after 9a CST tomorrow | 23:25 |
| @snapcount | until the release is on pb.com | 23:25 |
| @snapcount | I got an interception eh perlDreamer | 23:25 |
| perlDreamer | similar to a rogue bludger | 23:26 |
| @snapcount | I'm afraid to ask | 23:26 |
| perlDreamer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bludger_%28Harry_Potter%29 | 23:27 |
| @snapcount | that's another thing I miss is tinyUrl from the old bot | 23:28 |
| perlDreamer | whatever happned to WRE? | 23:28 |
| @preaction-m | perlbot shorten it | 23:28 |
| perlbot | Shortened URL: http://xrl.us/t7ci | 23:28 |
| @snapcount | nice | 23:29 |
| @snapcount | can you make him do it automatically? | 23:29 |
| @snapcount | the guy hosting him for us had the server take a crap | 23:29 |
| perlDreamer | sure! preaction-m: say perlbot shorten it | 23:29 |
| @preaction-m | or anyone can say it | 23:29 |
| @snapcount | uhh | 23:29 |
| @snapcount | www.foo.net | 23:30 |
| * snapcount taps his fingers | 23:30 | |
| * snapcount whistles a tune | 23:30 | |
| perlDreamer | snappy likes his bots automated | 23:30 |
| perlDreamer | Kari likes her toast butter-side up | 23:30 |
| @snapcount | lessWork++ | 23:30 |
| * perlDreamer is confusing data structures | 23:35 | |
| @preaction-m | perlbot shorten www.foo.net | 23:35 |
| perlbot | Shortened URL: http://tinyurl.com/ydvg6h | 23:35 |
| perlDreamer | that's shorter, all rightey | 23:35 |
| @preaction-m | that's hardly perlbot's fault.. you guys are too hard on her | 23:35 |
| perlDreamer | she's only doing what she's told | 23:35 |
| perlDreamer | I just don't get the whole URL shortening thing | 23:36 |
| perlDreamer | what's the point | 23:36 |
| perlDreamer | you either point and click, or highlight and copy | 23:36 |
| @preaction-m | if you have to remember it for a screen session, or a terminal session | 23:36 |
| perlDreamer | does anyone have a SOAP site that they use for testing the WSclient? | 23:38 |
| @rizen | i used to use google's search api | 23:40 |
| @rizen | but that's apparently gone now | 23:40 |
| @rizen | if you can still get access to it | 23:40 |
| @rizen | then there's a document in webgui done right | 23:40 |
| @rizen | that explains how to use it | 23:40 |
| perlDreamer | okay | 23:41 |
| perlDreamer | ah | 23:42 |
| perlDreamer | here it is | 23:42 |
| perlDreamer | hidden away in the Content Managers area | 23:42 |
| @rizen | snapcount | 23:46 |
| @rizen | did that rss feed bug i reported get fixed | 23:46 |
| @rizen | nevermind..ooking | 23:47 |
| ckotil | Is there documentation explaining the methods that make up a wobject? | 23:56 |
| ckotil | i understand some of them from looking at examples. | 23:56 |
| @rizen | there's the api docs | 23:57 |
| @rizen | linked from webguidev.com | 23:57 |
| @rizen | and there's also the wobject tutorial | 23:57 |
| ckotil | ok. thanks | 23:57 |
| @rizen | from the same site | 23:57 |
| ckotil | yah i went through the trivia tut, but not the one from WUC | 23:57 |
| ckotil | ya i guess all i need is here in the wobject.html | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Wed Jan 10 2007 | ||
| ckotil | but...seems some are missing. like view and prepare_view | 00:00 |
| ckotil | are they missing or just located elsewhere? | 00:00 |
| @rizen | i don't know what you're asking me | 00:00 |
| @rizen | or what you're even looking at | 00:01 |
| ckotil | http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.3-beta/api/Asset/Wobject.html | 00:01 |
| ckotil | im looking at that wondering where the methods view and prepare_view are | 00:01 |
| ckotil | prepareView* | 00:01 |
| @rizen | they are inherited from asset | 00:03 |
| @rizen | wobjects are assets | 00:03 |
| @rizen | the stuff documented in there is just the new stuff that only wobjects have | 00:03 |
| @rizen | so you need to go back one folder | 00:03 |
| ckotil | ah. | 00:03 |
| ckotil | makes sense to me. | 00:03 |
| @rizen | and look at all the files that start with "Asset" | 00:03 |
| @rizen | there are hundreds of methods defined in there | 00:04 |
| @rizen | and among them are prepareView | 00:04 |
| @rizen | and view | 00:04 |
| ckotil | kthx | 00:04 |
| ckotil | oh sweet. | 00:05 |
| ckotil | i cant believe i didnt grasp this sooner. | 00:05 |
| -!- snapcount is now known as snap_away | 00:17 | |
| @preaction-m | is it legal to use ^Macro; without the parens? | 01:19 |
| @rizen | yes | 01:20 |
| @rizen | as long as there are no parameters to pass in, no need to specify parens | 01:20 |
| @preaction-m | ok, so it's not that | 01:20 |
| perlDreamer | you tracking down a macro bug? | 01:21 |
| @preaction-m | a site performance issue caused by macro use | 01:21 |
| perlDreamer | which macros are being used? | 01:22 |
| @preaction-m | THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH SPACER GIFS | 01:22 |
| @preaction-m | looks like this one is using ^FileUrl and an invalid filename | 01:22 |
| @preaction-m | in a style template | 01:22 |
| @rizen | no one should ever be using a spacer gif | 01:22 |
| * perlDreamer remembers ^Spacer | 01:22 | |
| @rizen | they should instead use ^Spacer(10,5); | 01:22 |
| @preaction-m | you should SEE how many spacer gifs they're using in this damnable site | 01:23 |
| @preaction-m | there's padding and margin CSS properties, that's what those are for | 01:23 |
| -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] | 01:23 | |
| @rizen | 2 things | 01:23 |
| @rizen | a) this may be the cause of the error, cuz they specified an invald url somwhere | 01:23 |
| @rizen | b) spacer gifs will definitely not perform as well as the spacer macro | 01:24 |
| @rizen | i highly recommend changing out the spacer gifs for spacer macros | 01:24 |
| @rizen | and that shouldnt' be your job | 01:24 |
| @rizen | but rather tell the client to do that | 01:24 |
| @rizen | we can do it for them, but we'll have to charge them | 01:24 |
| @preaction-m | i'm composing a note to them, the "invalid asset url" has to be a macro being used as an argument for another macro, i have yet to pin down where that is | 01:24 |
| @rizen | using spacer gifs rather than spacer macros is about 10x slower | 01:25 |
| @preaction-m | nd i found the SQL problem, they're using a macro in there too, but not quoted | 01:25 |
| perlDreamer | s/<img src="[^"]+" width="?(\d+)"? height="?(\d+)"?>/^Spacer($1,$2);/sg; | 01:26 |
| perlDreamer | or maybe $2,$1 | 01:26 |
| perlDreamer | use /isg for case insensitivity | 01:26 |
| @rizen | i'm having a hard time figuring out what to put in the admin guide | 01:32 |
| @rizen | i've already defined 11 chapters, and written four of them | 01:33 |
| perlDreamer | User Profile | 01:33 |
| perlDreamer | Groups | 01:33 |
| perlDreamer | DatabaseLinks | 01:33 |
| perlDreamer | Groups of Groups and privileges | 01:33 |
| @rizen | but that only gets me up to 41 pages so far | 01:33 |
| @rizen | all of those are in there | 01:33 |
| perlDreamer | Packages | 01:33 |
| perlDreamer | Prototypes | 01:33 |
| perlDreamer | UI levels | 01:33 |
| @rizen | those aren't admin functions | 01:33 |
| perlDreamer | hmmmm..... | 01:34 |
| @rizen | they are included in the content managers guide | 01:34 |
| @rizen | here are my chapters: | 01:34 |
| perlDreamer | Workflows and Workflow Activities | 01:34 |
| @rizen | Installation | 01:34 |
| @rizen | Backups | 01:34 |
| @rizen | Upgrades | 01:34 |
| @rizen | Performance | 01:34 |
| @rizen | Managing Users | 01:34 |
| @rizen | Managing Groups | 01:34 |
| @rizen | LDAP | 01:34 |
| @rizen | Database Links | 01:34 |
| @rizen | SSL | 01:34 |
| @rizen | Logging | 01:34 |
| @rizen | Troubleshooting | 01:34 |
| @rizen | More Resources | 01:35 |
| @rizen | You think that Workflows should go into admin guide rather than the CM guide? | 01:35 |
| perlDreamer | wouldn't the CM's use Workflows provided to them? | 01:35 |
| @rizen | i suppose so | 01:35 |
| perlDreamer | How about Replacements? | 01:35 |
| @rizen | part of my problem is | 01:35 |
| @rizen | that i'm both | 01:36 |
| @rizen | so i'm having a hard time distinguishing the audience | 01:36 |
| @rizen | =) | 01:36 |
| @preaction-m | nothing on Apache/Mysql/etc...? | 01:36 |
| @rizen | Yeah, I suppose replacements would be good | 01:36 |
| @rizen | Apache/Mysql are covered in the various chapters that deal with them | 01:36 |
| @rizen | install/upgrades/performance | 01:37 |
| @rizen | etc | 01:37 |
| perlDreamer | The Commerce stuff is going to change. Is it worth documenting the current state? | 01:37 |
| @rizen | the commerce stuff goes into cm guide | 01:37 |
| @rizen | at least the stuff that we're documenting does | 01:37 |
| @rizen | when we redo the commerce system | 01:37 |
| @rizen | there will be a whole new guide | 01:37 |
| @rizen | just for that | 01:37 |
| @rizen | i guess adding replacements and workflows will give me some more chapters | 01:38 |
| perlDreamer | how about the scripts in sbin? | 01:38 |
| perlDreamer | That's only a few pages | 01:39 |
| @rizen | i'm actually covering each of those in the relevant sections | 01:41 |
| @rizen | userImport.pl is covered in users | 01:42 |
| @rizen | for example | 01:42 |
| perlDreamer | There's not much to WebGUI Administration. | 01:42 |
| perlDreamer | Most of it is Content Management | 01:42 |
| perlDreamer | and Users | 01:42 |
| perlDreamer | isn't that the beauty of it? | 01:43 |
| @rizen | true, but i want to give people some real guts they can sink their teeth into | 01:43 |
| @rizen | i think i'm going to add a lot more examples | 01:43 |
| perlDreamer | clustering | 01:43 |
| perlDreamer | replication | 01:43 |
| perlDreamer | failover | 01:43 |
| @rizen | like crazy things you can do with loggin | 01:43 |
| @rizen | logging | 01:44 |
| @rizen | that's not a bad idea | 01:44 |
| @rizen | that could be a book in itself | 01:44 |
| @rizen | because there are thousands of configurations | 01:44 |
| perlDreamer | btw, still trying to find a SOAP server that will spew some data at me | 01:44 |
| @rizen | have you tried xmethods | 01:45 |
| perlDreamer | yes | 01:45 |
| @rizen | xmethods.net | 01:45 |
| perlDreamer | everything seems very unit oriented | 01:45 |
| @rizen | how about amazon a9 | 01:45 |
| @rizen | or yahoo search api | 01:45 |
| perlDreamer | do I needa key? | 01:45 |
| @rizen | probably | 01:45 |
| @rizen | i don't actually use any of this stuff | 01:45 |
| @rizen | i personally hate soap | 01:45 |
| perlDreamer | given the state of the docs, I would guess that no one else does, either | 01:46 |
| perlDreamer | all of the pagination variables were wrong | 01:46 |
| @rizen | donorware uses it extensively | 01:46 |
| @rizen | but they wrote it | 01:46 |
| @rizen | and they use it for their own web services | 01:46 |
| perlDreamer | I'll email Mike. | 01:47 |
| @preaction-m | does anyone know how to disable the default apache on OSX server, i can't find anything in the docs. is it as simple as putting something in rc.local? | 01:52 |
| @rizen | yes its even easier than that | 01:53 |
| @rizen | Apple icon (upper right corner) > System Preferences | 01:53 |
| @rizen | Sharing | 01:53 |
| @rizen | Services | 01:54 |
| @rizen | Uncheck "Personal Web Sharing" | 01:54 |
| @rizen | done | 01:54 |
| -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui | 01:54 | |
| @rizen | ok guys...gotta go for a while | 01:54 |
| -!- rizen is now known as rizen_afk | 01:54 | |
| perlDreamer | later, rizen | 01:55 |
| perlDreamer | howdy, Radix | 01:55 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat048.mxim.com] has quit [""""] | 02:06 | |
| Radix-wrk | mornin' | 02:39 |
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| -!- rizen_afk is now known as rizen | 05:31 | |
| @preaction-m | rizen: you around? | 05:50 |
| @rizen | indeed | 05:51 |
| @preaction-m | i just failed an upgrade from 6.8.10 - 6.99.0 because OSX has an incompatible libiconv for the WRE 0.7.2 | 05:52 |
| @preaction-m | did i miss something easy? | 05:53 |
| @preaction-m | or.. was i just supposed to keep using the 0.6.0 WRE until later? | 05:54 |
| @rizen | i haven't ever seen that error before | 05:54 |
| @rizen | but you're on intel mac | 05:54 |
| @rizen | we don't have a wre for that | 05:54 |
| @preaction-m | not me | 05:54 |
| @preaction-m | www.crmleaders.org | 05:54 |
| @preaction-m | APR wants libiconv with 6.0.0, and the one that's with 10.4 only provides 5.0.0 (whatever those version numbers mean) | 05:55 |
| @preaction-m | rather, that's with the version of 10.4 (ppc) that this person has | 05:55 |
| @rizen | interesting | 05:55 |
| @preaction-m | i rolled back, everythings AOK, they're at 6.8.10 currently | 05:55 |
| @rizen | it worked on my mac | 05:55 |
| @rizen | so it must be that one of the more recent patches | 05:55 |
| @rizen | has changed this for mac | 05:55 |
| @preaction-m | i imagined it did | 05:55 |
| @rizen | i guess you're going to need to compile a new wre for PPC | 05:56 |
| @preaction-m | perhaps try 0.7.0 tomorrow? of course i was only assuming that 0.6.0 wouldn't work | 05:56 |
| @rizen | i don't know how else you'd get around it | 05:56 |
| @rizen | yeah, you can't use 0.6.0 | 05:56 |
| @preaction-m | good lord in heaven, and we're going to have to charge him for this? | 05:56 |
| @rizen | and i don't recommend going backwards | 05:56 |
| @rizen | do you have any better ideas? | 05:57 |
| @preaction-m | don't recommend either, but it luckily worked | 05:57 |
| @preaction-m | none | 05:57 |
| @preaction-m | i can only hope that compiling against the libiconv that they have will fix it | 05:57 |
| @rizen | wait...it worked to go back to 0.7.0? | 05:57 |
| @preaction-m | to 0.6.0 | 05:57 |
| @preaction-m | it Seems to have worked, at least | 05:57 |
| @rizen | you mean that the upgrade worked | 05:58 |
| @rizen | not running webgui | 05:58 |
| @rizen | 0.6.0 wre isn't capable of running webgui 7 | 05:58 |
| @preaction-m | i only made it to 6.8.10 | 05:58 |
| @rizen | at least not without installing a whole mess of perl modules | 05:58 |
| @rizen | and perhaps other stuff | 05:58 |
| @preaction-m | i was working on going to 6.99.* when i failed | 05:58 |
| @preaction-m | and between there i installed WRE 0.7.2 | 05:58 |
| @rizen | i don't know what to tell you | 05:59 |
| @rizen | i think you're going to have to compile a wre for them | 05:59 |
| @rizen | they need to get to 7.x of webgui | 05:59 |
| @preaction-m | c'est la vie, i'll e-mail john to tell him the situation, i'll CC vrby and tell them that TMRFE says that a custom compile might be the only way | 05:59 |
| @rizen | and if you're saying the one we provide doesn't work | 05:59 |
| @rizen | i don't know what else to do | 05:59 |
| @rizen | TMRFE? | 06:00 |
| @preaction-m | The Man Responsible For Everything | 06:00 |
| @rizen | heh | 06:00 |
| @preaction-m | at any rate, wingers awaits, friends already piss drunk apparently so that oughta be interesting (i just want food) | 06:01 |
| @rizen | have fun | 06:01 |
| @preaction-m | i'll try, failure usually puts me in a foul mood :( | 06:01 |
| -!- MPedersenJ [n=MPederse@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 06:07 | |
| MPedersenJ | What the??? How am I still connected? I've close all copies I'm aware of. | 06:08 |
| @rizen | perhaps you're being spoofed | 06:08 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=marvin@mail.icelus.biz] has quit ["I'm a dumbass. Left myself logged in in a screen session."] | 06:08 | |
| MPedersenJ | Didn't even realize I'd done it, obviously. | 06:09 |
| MPedersenJ | Anyway, since the real me has now stood up, hi again :) | 06:09 |
| @rizen | howdy | 06:10 |
| @rizen | you know something else that might have happened, that sometimes happens to me | 06:10 |
| @rizen | if i'm carrying my laptop around my house | 06:10 |
| @rizen | sometimes i'll lose wifi signal | 06:10 |
| @rizen | and then the irc client will connect me twice | 06:10 |
| @rizen | when the signal comes back | 06:10 |
| MPedersenJ | Nope, this one is entirely my dumbass. Anybody know how long I'd left myself idle? I'd opened a screen session, logged in to irc, and then put screen into the background. Since it's on my server, it could have gone on in usage forever. | 06:12 |
| MPedersenJ | Anyway, how's things going? | 06:18 |
| @rizen | pretty damn spectacular i'd say | 06:18 |
| @rizen | half my staff (including me) are in the process of writing three big new books for webgui | 06:19 |
| @rizen | it's pretty cool | 06:19 |
| @rizen | we've never taken on a documentation effort of this scope before | 06:19 |
| @rizen | and everyone is coming up with some really cool cookbook ideas for doing new things in webgui | 06:20 |
| @rizen | what's new on your end? | 06:20 |
| MPedersenJ | Sweet! That sounds like it'd be awesome for me (I need lots of work on my webgui skills). | 06:20 |
| @rizen | i'll give you a quick example | 06:22 |
| MPedersenJ | For me, I've got an idea for webgui which is definitely *not* the norm: A module which handles web based editing of a squid config file. Still not sure if I should do it. Also going to be doing an online novel, and using webgui as the host platform for the entire website. Since it's also meant to be an RPG (tabletop, not computerized), and I want to post lots of other data about the world the novel is set in, a whole site is definitely justified. | 06:22 |
| @rizen | one recipe that i put into the new admin guide is a way to make your webgui log email you | 06:22 |
| @rizen | when there is a fatal error | 06:22 |
| @rizen | that way you don't have to go through your logs every day...just wait for the system to tell you there's a problem | 06:23 |
| @rizen | it's simple, but very useful | 06:23 |
| MPedersenJ | Yeah, that would be *very* cool. | 06:23 |
| MPedersenJ | With the way I have things set up, I might try and update it to send me an IM over Jabber, instead, but that's just because I'm weird, and use IM more than email :) | 06:23 |
| @rizen | actually, i'm going to put a recipe in there for that too if i can figure it out | 06:24 |
| @rizen | cuz i would probably also prefer to be IM'd | 06:24 |
| Radix-wrk | that using the log4perl stuff to email it? | 06:24 |
| @rizen | yes | 06:24 |
| @rizen | it's really not hard to do it | 06:24 |
| @preaction-m | rizen: could you run `otool -L /data/wre/prereqs/apache/bin/httpd` and tell me what it says for /usr/lib/libiconv.2.dylib? | 06:25 |
| MPedersenJ | rizen, do you have O'Reilly Safari access? | 06:25 |
| Radix-wrk | someone (perhaps even you JT) mentioned that at the WUC, I had it noted down as something to look into in my spare time actually :) | 06:25 |
| @rizen | and if people would dig through the docs for log4perl it would be easy | 06:25 |
| @rizen | but the docs are pretty dense | 06:25 |
| @rizen | so i think people just like things laid out for them | 06:25 |
| Radix-wrk | So what are the three books for? Content Designers, Administrators and Developers or something like that? | 06:26 |
| @rizen | preaction: /data/wre/prereqs/apache/bin/httpd: | 06:26 |
| @rizen | /data/wre/prereqs/utils/lib/libz.1.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1.2.3) | 06:26 |
| @rizen | /usr/lib/libssl.0.9.7.dylib (compatibility version 0.9.7, current version 0.9.7) | 06:26 |
| @rizen | /usr/lib/libcrypto.0.9.7.dylib (compatibility version 0.9.7, current version 0.9.7) | 06:26 |
| @rizen | /data/wre/prereqs/apache/lib/libaprutil-0.0.dylib (compatibility version 10.0.0, current version 10.12.0) | 06:26 |
| @rizen | /data/wre/prereqs/apache/lib/libexpat.0.dylib (compatibility version 2.0.0, current version 2.0.0) | 06:26 |
| @rizen | /usr/lib/libiconv.2.dylib (compatibility version 5.0.0, current version 5.0.0) | 06:26 |
| @rizen | /data/wre/prereqs/apache/lib/libapr-0.0.dylib (compatibility version 10.0.0, current version 10.12.0) | 06:26 |
| @rizen | /usr/lib/libresolv.9.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 369.2.0) | 06:26 |
| @rizen | /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 88.1.7) | 06:26 |
| @rizen | /usr/lib/libmx.A.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 92.0.0) | 06:26 |
| @rizen | i did have safari access, but never used it so i closed it off last month | 06:26 |
| @rizen | radix: yeah, i mentioned that example at the wuc last year | 06:27 |
| @rizen | and actually at the 2007 wuc i'll be giving a whole talk on logging tips and tricks | 06:27 |
| @preaction-m | rizen: so you have the same version i have, and they have. are you using WRE 0.7.2? | 06:27 |
| @rizen | yeah, the three books are content managers, admins, and designers | 06:27 |
| @rizen | yes | 06:27 |
| @preaction-m | wtf... | 06:28 |
| MPedersenJ | http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2002/01/11/jabber_bots.html | 06:28 |
| Radix-wrk | Doubt I'll be able to go to the WUC this year (costs a bit much to send me over really) - but definitely interested in the books :) | 06:28 |
| MPedersenJ | That URL should help, I think, figuring out the email<->IM gateway. | 06:28 |
| @preaction-m | but anyway, no more work today | 06:28 |
| * preaction-m & eats | 06:28 | |
| Radix-wrk | enjoy :) | 06:28 |
| @rizen | radix: totally understand | 06:29 |
| @rizen | mpedersenj: actually i know of a company who controlls their entire provisioning system through jabber | 06:30 |
| @rizen | just the way this article is talking about | 06:30 |
| @rizen | they can also gather stats and statuses on all their systems and clients | 06:30 |
| @rizen | radix: we're also going to start doing webinars at some point | 06:31 |
| @rizen | so you'll be able to get wuc-type presentations live, online | 06:31 |
| MPedersenJ | I'd do the same if I could. My boss, though... Curious mix. Cisco networking guy (one test away from CCIE), and can't get along with the command line. | 06:31 |
| @rizen | weird | 06:31 |
| @rizen | cisco guys usually like cli | 06:31 |
| MPedersenJ | Oh, and insecure, to boot. Very weird. So, even though I might have very cool ideas on things we can do, we won't use them, because I make a lot of command line stuff. | 06:32 |
| Radix-wrk | rizen: that'd be cool | 06:35 |
| @rizen | email info@plainblack.com if you'd like to be notified when the webinars will start | 06:36 |
| @rizen | i think that they're scheduled to start sometime in february, but i don't know for sure | 06:36 |
| @rizen | btw...how many people at your company do webgui? | 06:36 |
| @rizen | cuz the webinar subscription allows everyone in your company to attend | 06:36 |
| MPedersenJ | Well, if it were *my* company, it'd be just me. I'll be the one introducing it there :) | 06:37 |
| @rizen | heh...but if you're successful | 06:38 |
| @rizen | then others would join you i assume | 06:38 |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. I'm really the only one who does anything serious - the others use Webgui, but don't really work with it in-depth. | 06:38 |
| Radix-wrk | they do more content management stuff | 06:38 |
| @rizen | we have some clients who have 50-100 people that will be attending the webinars | 06:38 |
| @rizen | some of the webinars will be technical | 06:38 |
| @rizen | some will be more for publishers | 06:38 |
| @rizen | it will be different every time | 06:39 |
| MPedersenJ | I'd love to have more join in. I don't know, though. Sometimes, I feel rather like I'm just in the way. Other times, I feel like I'm the one leading the way. It's a job, eh? | 06:39 |
| MPedersenJ | Enough whining from me :) | 06:39 |
| @rizen | not all will be interesting to everyone | 06:39 |
| @rizen | hehe | 06:39 |
| @rizen | when you're doing your job right | 06:39 |
| Radix-wrk | Sounds interesting - and needs an additional subscription to be able to watch? | 06:39 |
| @rizen | you should feel like that | 06:39 |
| @rizen | yes there will be a seperate subscription for it | 06:40 |
| @rizen | i don't know what that will be though | 06:40 |
| @rizen | because these will be live presentations | 06:40 |
| @rizen | and we need to produce content for each one | 06:40 |
| @rizen | there will be a cost to it | 06:40 |
| @rizen | to cover our cost | 06:40 |
| Radix-wrk | yup | 06:40 |
| Radix-wrk | I doubt my boss would go for it unless we need to do a whole lot of new stuff with Webgui really - and we're pretty happy with our site at the moment - doing very little on it atm. | 06:42 |
| Radix-wrk | Just maintenance and slowly adding more content for our own customers (flash videos/tutorials/etc..) | 06:43 |
| MPedersenJ | Hey, this might be a good place to ask: what are ballpark rates for a new style for webgui? ie: If I ask plainblack to make a new theme/style, what are common rates for that? | 06:43 |
| @rizen | that's understandable man | 06:43 |
| @rizen | depends upon what you want | 06:43 |
| @rizen | but i know we've done some for less than $1k | 06:43 |
| @rizen | and i know that we've done some for more than $10k | 06:43 |
| @rizen | what it really comes down to is how many options you want | 06:44 |
| MPedersenJ | Mostly, it's a case of a few graphics, removal of some stuff, I think. | 06:44 |
| @rizen | for example, the one we did for more than $10k we came up with more than 30 mockups | 06:44 |
| MPedersenJ | Although, even at $1K, that rules out going to you guys for my novel website. | 06:44 |
| @rizen | if this is just an adjustment of something existing | 06:45 |
| @rizen | it will be less than $500 | 06:45 |
| @rizen | regardless | 06:45 |
| @rizen | if this is for your free online community | 06:45 |
| MPedersenJ | What tools do you use for mockups? I get the feeling that pen/paper is the best choice, but somehow it feels weird to do a mockup on paper for a web page. | 06:45 |
| @rizen | you should check out one of the open source template sites | 06:45 |
| @rizen | we do all our mockups in photoshop and illustrator | 06:46 |
| MPedersenJ | Tools that don't fit me well at all (since what I know about them is how to spell them). | 06:46 |
| MPedersenJ | Ah well... Under $500? That I might be able to manage for the novel site. | 06:46 |
| Radix-wrk | I think that everything should start with pencil and paper first :) - you need a plan before you put anything on the computer | 06:46 |
| MPedersenJ | I'm hoping to put webgui into our corporate intranet at work. | 06:47 |
| MPedersenJ | Correction: I'm hoping to make our corporate intranet out of webgui, since we don't have one at all right now. | 06:47 |
| Radix-wrk | We're using webgui for our intranet also - tis great | 06:47 |
| @rizen | http://www.opensourcetemplates.org/opensource.cfm | 06:47 |
| MPedersenJ | Speaking of which: I've been wondering about the wiki module. I've seen mention of it, but haven't seen the module itself. Any idea of when that beast might be release? | 06:48 |
| @rizen | it is released | 06:48 |
| Radix-wrk | it's in the latest 7.3.x builds | 06:48 |
| @rizen | it's in 7.3 | 06:48 |
| Radix-wrk | you can see it on the demo site | 06:48 |
| Radix-wrk | or the community wiki itself | 06:48 |
| @rizen | http://www.plainblack.com/support/community-wiki | 06:48 |
| MPedersenJ | Aha! I hadn't gotten there yet, was still on 7.2 :) | 06:48 |
| @rizen | 7.3 isn't stable yet | 06:49 |
| @rizen | stay on 7.2 | 06:49 |
| @rizen | with any luck we'll go stable next week | 06:49 |
| Radix-wrk | hehe | 06:49 |
| Radix-wrk | that opensource templates site is pretty neat.. never seen that before | 06:49 |
| MPedersenJ | Sweet! That will be the moment I'm waiting for :) | 06:49 |
| MPedersenJ | Now, any chance of an automated moinmoin->webgui-wiki converter? | 06:49 |
| @rizen | nope | 06:50 |
| @rizen | unless you want to pay to have it developed =) | 06:50 |
| MPedersenJ | Then I might have to write one, since that's our current wiki, and I'd want to merge that in. | 06:50 |
| @rizen | the wiki in it's current form isn't very powerful | 06:50 |
| @rizen | i ran out of time | 06:50 |
| @rizen | so i didn't get to add uploads into it | 06:51 |
| @rizen | and we also don't yet have a "diffs" utility | 06:51 |
| @rizen | but those things will both come in time | 06:51 |
| MPedersenJ | For what we use it for? That's still plenty. | 06:51 |
| MPedersenJ | Thank you for that open source templates site. That's exactly the sort of thing I've been looking for! | 06:53 |
| @rizen | np | 06:53 |
| @rizen | incidentally, i'm pretty sure that we charge $400 to turn one of those into a working webgui package | 06:53 |
| @rizen | that you can just deploy on your site | 06:54 |
| MPedersenJ | How bad is it to choose a page which uses a darker background with a lighter font (as opposed to most of those templates, which go light background/dark foreground)? I mean, from a usability perspective. | 06:57 |
| @rizen | depends upon your audience | 06:58 |
| @rizen | if you're dealing with older people with eyesite problems | 06:58 |
| @rizen | it's easier to read black on white | 06:58 |
| Radix-wrk | it's also easier to print | 06:58 |
| @rizen | but if your audience is younger | 06:58 |
| @rizen | then it doesn't really matter | 06:59 |
| Radix-wrk | though the makeprintable template helps there | 06:59 |
| @rizen | radix: with webgui that's not true | 06:59 |
| @rizen | yeah | 06:59 |
| @rizen | exactly | 06:59 |
| MPedersenJ | Dang... Dunno the eventual age range. Probably younger. The online novel is a horror novel. I'm trying to find ways to darken the actual theme of the site. Might just have to go with better graphics at the header to convey the idea. | 07:00 |
| Radix-wrk | use a dark site design then :) | 07:02 |
| @rizen | i agree...go dark | 07:02 |
| Radix-wrk | don't use bright white text, try a lighter grey or soemthing.. that helps with the contrast issues | 07:03 |
| Radix-wrk | and easier on the eyes | 07:03 |
| @rizen | nah | 07:03 |
| @rizen | use a dark blood red background | 07:03 |
| @rizen | with dark black text on it | 07:03 |
| @rizen | =) | 07:03 |
| Radix-wrk | impossible to read then :) | 07:03 |
| @rizen | that's the point | 07:03 |
| MPedersenJ | Nah, though that *could* look good, it's not the motif I'm going for. | 07:03 |
| MPedersenJ | It's a horror novel, set in a fantasy world, but a world in which the sun went dark about 500 years ago. | 07:04 |
| Radix-wrk | reminds me of the old lucasarts games - they used to come with a codewheel that was maroon with black writing. Almost impossible to photocopy then ;) | 07:04 |
| Radix-wrk | Sounds like a cool novel MPedersenJ! | 07:05 |
| MPedersenJ | I've actually got a fair amount about it decided. I need to build up the website, and write my first chapter, before I'll consider advertising it, though. | 07:06 |
| Radix-wrk | heh | 07:06 |
| @rizen | ooh, then this is what you need for a site design | 07:06 |
| @rizen | http://dark.plainblack.com/ | 07:07 |
| MPedersenJ | I've also got a character who's rather a trip: Every night, since he was around 3, he's had a rather horrific nightmare. He's in a sword fight with a woman covered in black from head to toe. She always wins. Every night, he dies in his dreams. | 07:07 |
| Radix-wrk | Sounds kinky. | 07:07 |
| MPedersenJ | Heh. Actually, that cloud effect is pretty decent. I think I might go for a similar effect. | 07:08 |
| Radix-wrk | http://www.opendesigns.org/preview/?template=310 | 07:10 |
| MPedersenJ | As for kinky: Depends on whether or not you think you'd enjoy dying from various knifewounds would be kinky :) | 07:10 |
| Radix-wrk | http://www.opendesigns.org/preview/?template=277 | 07:12 |
| MPedersenJ | http://www.opendesigns.org/preview/?template=277 | 07:12 |
| MPedersenJ | Heh, perfect timing :) | 07:12 |
| MPedersenJ | http://www.opendesigns.org/preview/?template=289 | 07:13 |
| MPedersenJ | That one might be the closest I have seen yet to what I had in mind. | 07:13 |
| Radix-wrk | cool.. goferit then ;) | 07:14 |
| Radix-wrk | http://www.opendesigns.org/preview/?template=190 - this one is easier to read | 07:14 |
| MPedersenJ | Yeah. Different format than I was looking for, though, but that should be quite bearable. | 07:16 |
| MPedersenJ | Dang, need to save all these links, they're all good. Also found a bright one I could use for work at http://www.opensourcetemplates.org/templates/view.cfm?MultiFlex21 | 07:16 |
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| MPedersenJ | I found it! Perfection! http://www.opendesigns.org/preview/?template=221 | 07:18 |
| +perlDreamer | that is a nice one | 07:20 |
| +perlDreamer | you going to make it work for WebGUI? | 07:20 |
| MPedersenJ | Especially for an online novel and web community around it, that should be fantastic. | 07:20 |
| Radix-wrk | Looks good to me. | 07:21 |
| MPedersenJ | Yeah, that I am. I'm tempted to take rizen up on an offer to make it work, after all, it's not expensive, but I did buy WebGUI Done Right already. I should use it :) | 07:21 |
| Radix-wrk | that'd be pretty easy to get working really - it's pretty straight forward | 07:22 |
| @rizen | if you get it working | 07:22 |
| @rizen | you should make a package out of it | 07:23 |
| @rizen | and put it up in the contribs section | 07:23 |
| @rizen | that way others can benefit from your work | 07:23 |
| MPedersenJ | I'll do that for both of the themes I've found. | 07:23 |
| MPedersenJ | I might do a third, since I do have three sites I'd like to power using WebGUI. | 07:23 |
| Radix-wrk | Start with one :) | 07:24 |
| Radix-wrk | Get one working.. then you'll find the others easy :) | 07:24 |
| @rizen | incidentally MPedersionJ: I'd prefer that you did it rather than having us do it. | 07:24 |
| @rizen | it's always better to have more skilled people in the community | 07:24 |
| MPedersenJ | Oh yeah. I'm only mildly crazy :) | 07:24 |
| +perlDreamer | Just hang out here and/or the forums | 07:25 |
| MPedersenJ | And, believe it or not, it's not about the money. I bought the online WDR for one reason: It met my personal needs. And it was me, not my company, that bought it. It's about being able to do it myself. I really do enjoy that. | 07:25 |
| +perlDreamer | Which company do you work for? | 07:26 |
| MPedersenJ | Actually, a retail store: www.6ave.com is their online presence (god, I can't wait until we get that site replaced, supposedly end of this month). | 07:27 |
| @rizen | shit | 07:30 |
| @rizen | i was hoping that i could get rid of WebGUI::Utility | 07:30 |
| @rizen | every module i find is either more complicated than the utilities in there | 07:30 |
| @rizen | or the utilities just don't exist | 07:31 |
| MPedersenJ | So, the 3 I think I'm going to convert (just so you guys can see the designs): First, my horror novel site: http://www.opendesigns.org/preview/?template=221 | 07:32 |
| MPedersenJ | Second: My employer company intranet site: http://www.opendesigns.org/preview/?template=65 | 07:33 |
| MPedersenJ | Third: My own business that I'm working on starting: http://www.opensourcetemplates.org/templates/view.cfm?andreas02 | 07:33 |
| MPedersenJ | Thanks again for pointing me to those two sites. They really help. I can code regular apps, but my website design skills suck the sweat off a dead man's balls. | 07:35 |
| Radix-wrk | Actually.. that'd make an excellent tip to add to the wiki | 07:36 |
| MPedersenJ | I'm on it! :D | 07:37 |
| MPedersenJ | There, added in. | 07:45 |
| Radix-wrk | cool | 07:46 |
| +perlDreamer | anyone up for some bug triage? | 07:48 |
| +perlDreamer | Imagine that you create a Folder Asset and set it to be viewable only by Content Managers | 07:49 |
| +perlDreamer | Then you add several files to the Folder, and set each file to be viewable by Everyone. | 07:49 |
| +perlDreamer | But the .wgaccess file added to the storage area overrides the File permissions. | 07:50 |
| @rizen | why would that be | 07:51 |
| @rizen | the .wgaccess file is set by each file individually, not by the folder | 07:51 |
| @rizen | i don't see the problem | 07:52 |
| @rizen | here's the thing | 07:53 |
| @rizen | the visitor should not be able to access the folder view | 07:53 |
| @rizen | but they should be able to access each file if they know the url of the file | 07:53 |
| @rizen | cuz that's what you've set for permissions | 07:53 |
| @rizen | if it works as i have stated above | 07:53 |
| @rizen | and i think it does | 07:53 |
| @rizen | then this is not a bug | 07:53 |
| +perlDreamer | if you go in and manually change the file permissions after the upload, then Visitor _can_ see the file. | 07:56 |
| +perlDreamer | so it looks like the permissions requested by the user during FilePile upload aren't being followed. But maybe that's by design, too? | 07:58 |
| @rizen | no that would be a bug | 07:58 |
| @rizen | it should use whatever privs are set during upload | 07:58 |
| +perlDreamer | crap | 07:58 |
| @rizen | who saw the new iphone today? | 08:01 |
| +perlDreamer | I did | 08:01 |
| @rizen | is it just me or is that the coolest thing EVER | 08:01 |
| +perlDreamer | It's a tricorder/PADD | 08:02 |
| @rizen | it is a tricorder | 08:02 |
| @rizen | and more | 08:02 |
| +perlDreamer | true, tricorders couldn't make phone calls | 08:02 |
| @rizen | it's a tricorder + communicator | 08:03 |
| @rizen | now if they could just add a phaser | 08:03 |
| @rizen | we'd be all good | 08:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I've always wanted Spy Hunter gear for my car. | 08:03 |
| +perlDreamer | It would solve all my traffic problems | 08:03 |
| +perlDreamer | Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say "Yes"! | 08:05 |
| @rizen | "That's your entire plan Ray? 'Get em!'" | 08:06 |
| +perlDreamer | But Mr. Stay Puffed is good.... | 08:07 |
| +perlDreamer | actually, most of the security tab is ignored | 08:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we should nuke the Security tab on the FilePile and document that it inherits everything from the parent. | 08:09 |
| @rizen | absolutely NOT | 08:10 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 08:10 |
| +perlDreamer | the security tab should be prepopulated with info from the parent so that the security tab is obeyed? | 08:11 |
| @rizen | yes | 08:11 |
| +perlDreamer | Sensei, why? | 08:12 |
| @rizen | why what? | 08:12 |
| +perlDreamer | why not nuke the Security tab? | 08:12 |
| @rizen | tell me yours and i'll tell you mine | 08:12 |
| +perlDreamer | well, current behavior is to inherit from the parent no matter what. The security tab on the FilePile misleads the user into thinking that their new choices will work. | 08:13 |
| +perlDreamer | so it should be nuked. | 08:13 |
| +perlDreamer | users can still go in and alter file permissions one by one | 08:13 |
| +perlDreamer | and if they truly want mixed permissions, do it in different folders | 08:13 |
| @rizen | you officially have the worst idea of 2007 so far | 08:13 |
| +perlDreamer | Teach me, sensei. | 08:14 |
| @rizen | that's like saying, all assets should not have a security tab when you first create the asset | 08:14 |
| @rizen | because we should inherit from the parent | 08:14 |
| @rizen | and if you wan tto change it you should go back in after the fact | 08:14 |
| @rizen | here's the reason that you shouldn't nuke the tab | 08:14 |
| @rizen | EVERYTHING ELSE HAS A SECURITY TAB THAT WORKS | 08:15 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, fine. Invoke the uniformity argument. | 08:15 |
| @rizen | not only that though | 08:15 |
| @rizen | but your argument is, the electric windows and locks don't work in the car, so let's take them out | 08:15 |
| @rizen | rather than fixing them so they work | 08:15 |
| +perlDreamer | hmmm | 08:16 |
| @rizen | do you disagree? | 08:16 |
| @rizen | i believe that is indeed your arguement | 08:16 |
| +perlDreamer | That's my argument, but the origin is slightly different. | 08:16 |
| +perlDreamer | The car looks like it should never have had locks. | 08:17 |
| +perlDreamer | Because it's a convertible | 08:17 |
| +perlDreamer | with a cloth top | 08:17 |
| +perlDreamer | in Oregon | 08:17 |
| @rizen | yeah, except all convertables have locks anyway | 08:17 |
| * perlDreamer bows | 08:18 | |
| +perlDreamer | Sensei, indeed you are wiser. | 08:18 |
| @rizen | roy is going to be pissed at you | 08:18 |
| +perlDreamer | not if I get it done in the next 8 hours | 08:18 |
| MPedersenJ | Sorry guys, time for me to hit the sack (almost 1:30am out here). Will definitely be back. With some luck, we'll start seeing the first of those conversions by the end of the week. | 08:18 |
| @rizen | he was hoping to have the worst idea of 2007 | 08:19 |
| @rizen | cuz he got the worst idea of 2006 award | 08:19 |
| +perlDreamer | It's early | 08:19 |
| -!- MPedersenJ [n=MPederse@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 08:20 | |
| +perlDreamer | maybe you could run that as the next contest | 08:20 |
| +perlDreamer | well, if he's not going to be pissed if this bug isn't fixed by the next release I'm going to head to bed. | 08:22 |
| @rizen | i'm going to be pissed if you go to bed | 08:22 |
| @rizen | not because you haven't fixed the bug | 08:22 |
| @rizen | just because i like to be pissed | 08:22 |
| @rizen | =) | 08:23 |
| @rizen | good night sir | 08:23 |
| +perlDreamer | Well, in that case, I can make both you and Kathy happy by going to bed! | 08:23 |
| +perlDreamer | g'night | 08:23 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""""] | 08:23 | |
| -!- rizen is now known as rizen_away | 08:23 | |
| -!- rizen_away [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] | 09:39 | |
| -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] | 09:46 | |
| -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI | 17:06 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ | 17:06 | |
| @khenn | morning | 17:06 |
| @snap_away | preaction-m: WAKE UP!!!!!!!!! | 17:20 |
| * snap_away throws a bucket of ice water on preaction-m | 17:20 | |
| @snap_away | top of tha mornin' to ya khenn | 17:20 |
| -!- snap_away is now known as snapcount | 17:22 | |
| @khenn | I guess you could call it that =) | 17:50 |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui | 18:00 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ | 18:00 | |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] | 18:00 | |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui | 18:00 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ | 18:00 | |
| @snapcount | MrHairgrease go vote | 18:06 |
| @snapcount | or I will be forced to beg you | 18:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | beg me | 18:07 |
| @snapcount | I hate you | 18:07 |
| @snapcount | =) | 18:07 |
| @snapcount | guess I'm not good at begging | 18:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | i dunno what yankees define as begging | 18:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 18:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'll vote | 18:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | on what? | 18:07 |
| @snapcount | the PBWG | 18:08 |
| @snapcount | aren't you subscribed to the shiney mailing lists I made? | 18:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | prolly not | 18:08 |
| @snapcount | oh well that would explain it | 18:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | haven't had any emails | 18:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'm subscribed | 18:09 |
| @snapcount | are you subscribed to the members one? | 18:09 |
| @snapcount | or just nominations | 18:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | webgui should have a 'mail me all messages' function | 18:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | both | 18:10 |
| @snapcount | weird | 18:10 |
| @snapcount | I'm getting them | 18:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | you don't understand | 18:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | i just subscribed myself | 18:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | 10 secs ago | 18:10 |
| @snapcount | just now | 18:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes | 18:10 |
| * snapcount sees a light bulb flickering above his brain | 18:10 | |
| @snapcount | sweet | 18:11 |
| * MrHairgrease zooms in with google maps on the flickering pixel | 18:11 | |
| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui | 18:11 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ | 18:11 | |
| @snapcount | ty for subscribing... I need you to help make sure the people that get into PBWG are of the same caliber as you | 18:11 |
| @snapcount | they have to rule | 18:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | heh | 18:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'm reading trhe posts i missed right now | 18:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | snapcount: happy? =) | 18:17 |
| @snapcount | that you're reading? | 18:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | i even posted | 18:17 |
| @snapcount | sweet | 18:17 |
| @snapcount | yes, I'm happy now | 18:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | great | 18:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's a nice feeling to do good =) | 18:18 |
| @snapcount | indeed | 18:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | ah 7.3.4 is ready? | 18:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | pb went into maintenace mode | 18:26 |
| @preaction-m | i'm helping! i'm helping! | 18:28 |
| @rizen | preaction-m, what's yoru sourceforge.net username? | 18:47 |
| @rizen | also, what's your freshmeat.net username | 18:47 |
| @preaction-m | i don't have a freshmeat yet, but sf is "preaction" | 18:47 |
| @rizen | get fm | 18:48 |
| @preaction-m | fm is also "preaction" | 18:48 |
| @rizen | you now have release rights on sf.net | 18:49 |
| @rizen | and on fm | 18:50 |
| @preaction-m | k | 18:50 |
| -!- maxscience [n=maxscien@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui | 19:02 | |
| -!- maxscience [n=maxscien@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has left #webgui [] | 19:02 | |
| @rizen | I almost had to give MrHairgrease the order to whack maxscience | 19:04 |
| @rizen | good thing he left as quickly as he came | 19:04 |
| @rizen | =) | 19:04 |
| @snapcount | sigh* I never did understand that guy | 19:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | your orders for me should go through joeri | 19:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'm sure he comes up with a fair rice =) | 19:05 |
| @snapcount | sweet... you have red tape too | 19:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | price* | 19:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | red tape? | 19:05 |
| @rizen | for coding i'll contact joeri | 19:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | what's that | 19:06 |
| @rizen | for hits, i'm going directly to you | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | bring it on | 19:06 |
| @snapcount | it's an expression in america for bueracracy | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | bring ot on | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 19:06 |
| @snapcount | jumping through the hoops | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | i understand | 19:06 |
| @rizen | snapcount, it's actually a british expression | 19:07 |
| @rizen | we just stole it | 19:07 |
| @snapcount | typical | 19:07 |
| @snapcount | go America! | 19:07 |
| @rizen | snapcount, what is flaglerbar.com? | 19:08 |
| @rizen | and why am i getting spammed by it | 19:09 |
| @snapcount | eh? | 19:09 |
| @snapcount | you're getting spammed by them | 19:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | do you really wanna know? | 19:09 |
| @snapcount | it's a site Keri runs | 19:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | calc pomade =) | 19:09 |
| @snapcount | and I think we should bill them soon actually | 19:09 |
| @snapcount | it's one of the ones from when I was hired | 19:09 |
| @snapcount | we so need calc back | 19:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | we do | 19:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | i need something to talk to when you guys are asleep =) | 19:13 |
| @snapcount | haha | 19:13 |
| @rizen | i thought that's what your gf was for | 19:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | excuse me? | 19:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | are you insane? | 19:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | you said _talk_ =) | 19:14 |
| @snapcount | yes talking to girls is like playing russian roulette | 19:15 |
| @snapcount | it might be a normal 2 min conversation or the death blow of hours and hours of crap | 19:15 |
| @snapcount | I choose not to play as much as possible | 19:16 |
| @rizen | only if you have the wrong girls | 19:16 |
| @snapcount | perhaps | 19:16 |
| @rizen | sarah never traps me into that bs | 19:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | marijn also never does that to me | 19:16 |
| @snapcount | sarah doesn't count as she has evolved all of the sucky female genes | 19:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | if she does i'll just bully her =) | 19:16 |
| @snapcount | she's an advanced lifeform | 19:17 |
| * MrHairgrease is cooking | 19:24 | |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAFKGrease | 19:24 | |
| @preaction-m | rizen: how do we credit Chris Palamara for bugfixes? Canali, Inc? or US DoS? | 19:31 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 19:37 | |
| * PedersenMJ wavies. Hey there. | 19:37 | |
| @rizen | what do you mean credit them? | 19:38 |
| @rizen | you mean that they fixed something? | 19:38 |
| @rizen | or provided a patch? | 19:39 |
| @preaction-m | diagnosed and found where the bug was (the exact line) | 19:39 |
| @snapcount | Hi PedersenMJ | 19:40 |
| @snapcount | welcome | 19:40 |
| @rizen | i assume then you're talking about credit in the change log | 19:41 |
| @snapcount | he is | 19:41 |
| @rizen | generally we only give credit when someone actually fixes a problem | 19:42 |
| @rizen | not just diagnoses it | 19:42 |
| @rizen | but if you want to give them credit, you're more than welcome do | 19:42 |
| @rizen | to | 19:42 |
| @rizen | and when i give credit, i typically ask the person how they want to be credited | 19:42 |
| @rizen | it's usually (thanks to Name, Company) | 19:42 |
| @preaction-m | k, i'll ask chris what he wants | 19:48 |
| PedersenMJ | I just enjoyed hanging out here last night, so came back today. | 19:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, found another free template site, and added that to the wiki. | 19:48 |
| @rizen | i'm glad to hear you're sticking around | 19:50 |
| @rizen | oh yeah, and it would be great if we could compile a giant list of those sites | 19:50 |
| @rizen | i think they'd really help people out | 19:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, so far, I've got three. | 19:50 |
| @rizen | that's a great start | 19:51 |
| @rizen | hopefully others will add to that list | 19:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Hopefully. Even if not, I'll make that my project to find and add more periodically. | 19:51 |
| @rizen | great | 19:52 |
| @rizen | then the next step is to a get a bunch of people working to convert those templates into webgui packages | 19:52 |
| @rizen | so people can just start deploying them left and right | 19:52 |
| PedersenMJ | One suggestion for the wiki module? Coming in from the community-wiki site, I don't see a way to modify the front page. That might be there (probably is) when you're an admin. But, if it isn't, then it would be really helpful to have that ability. | 19:52 |
| @rizen | i actually made the administrative decision that users cannot edit the front page | 19:53 |
| @rizen | only admins | 19:53 |
| @rizen | the front page is not actually a wiki page | 19:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, that sounds good. I was just wanting to make sure. I *do* intend to use it once 7.3 comes out, and want to have a different look/feel for that page. | 19:54 |
| @rizen | you can template it | 19:54 |
| @rizen | i mean it is templated | 19:55 |
| @rizen | so you as the admin can do whatever you want with it | 19:55 |
| @rizen | but there needs to be one page in the system that the users cannot change | 19:55 |
| @rizen | that way it can't be defaced | 19:55 |
| @rizen | just in case | 19:55 |
| @rizen | what we probably should do though | 19:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep, I do agree with that. | 19:55 |
| @rizen | is create some structural pages under the front page | 19:56 |
| @rizen | and link to them from the front page | 19:56 |
| @rizen | so that people can see "categories" of content | 19:56 |
| PedersenMJ | That would be excellent! | 19:56 |
| @rizen | at some point i'd also like to add tagging to the wiki | 19:57 |
| @rizen | and put a tag cloud on the front page | 19:57 |
| @rizen | anyway, back to support fo rme | 19:58 |
| -!- rizen is now known as rizenafk | 19:58 | |
| @rizenafk | doug, roy: did either of you upgrade gama yet? | 20:05 |
| @preaction-m | nein | 20:05 |
| @khenn | The more I get into YUI the cooler it becomes | 20:16 |
| @rizenafk | indeed | 20:16 |
| @khenn | the more I get into YUI, the more I hate both IE and Firefox | 20:16 |
| -!- rizenafk is now known as rizen | 20:17 | |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat048.mxim.com] has joined #webgui | 20:17 | |
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| @khenn | each for different reasons | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | http://xkcd.com/c208.html | 20:17 |
| @rizen | that's awesome | 20:18 |
| @rizen | i'm going to use it in the talk i'm giving at perl mongers tonight | 20:18 |
| @khenn | oh shit | 20:20 |
| @khenn | That's tonight | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | don't worry, you can still see the comic online | 20:20 |
| @khenn | I'm not going to make it tonight JT. My wife has to register Matthew for school next year... Unless you want to come pick me up =) | 20:21 |
| @rizen | you're always telling me that you come to every meeting | 20:22 |
| @rizen | you can't tell me that anymore | 20:22 |
| @rizen | =) | 20:22 |
| @rizen | doug, are you coming tonight/ | 20:22 |
| @khenn | yeah, I'm going to miss my first one | 20:23 |
| @khenn | well my first tech meeting | 20:23 |
| @khenn | who is speaking in Feb? | 20:23 |
| @rizen | i think feb is going to be cancelled | 20:24 |
| @rizen | cuz i can't get a hold of steve peters | 20:24 |
| @rizen | who was supposed to be talking | 20:24 |
| @rizen | also, it's on v-day | 20:24 |
| @rizen | so the turnout won't be good | 20:24 |
| @preaction-m | i don't know, i've just now finished all the release stuff and i still have to fix the bugs in my DoS code and make a new Wobject start-to-finish by end of day | 20:28 |
| @rizen | hehe | 20:29 |
| @rizen | i'll take that as no | 20:29 |
| @preaction-m | unfortunately | 20:29 |
| @rizen | do you want my code generator, even in the state that it's in? | 20:29 |
| @rizen | would that help you with your new asset | 20:29 |
| @preaction-m | surely | 20:29 |
| @rizen | sent | 20:31 |
| -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui | 20:56 | |
| cap10morgan | What is the best way to get the name of the database (link id 0) you're working with via the API? | 20:56 |
| @rizen | what do you mean the "name" of the database | 20:57 |
| @rizen | the actual name? | 20:57 |
| cap10morgan | yeah | 20:57 |
| cap10morgan | like select from (db_name).(table_name) ... | 20:57 |
| cap10morgan | the "db_name" | 20:57 |
| cap10morgan | i guess i should say schema name in these heady mysql 5 days :) | 20:58 |
| @rizen | ok | 20:59 |
| @rizen | well there's no "good" way | 20:59 |
| @rizen | so i'll just tell you a way that will work | 20:59 |
| cap10morgan | :) sounds good | 20:59 |
| @rizen | my $params = $dblink->get(); | 20:59 |
| @rizen | my $dsn = $params->{DSN} | 20:59 |
| @rizen | $dsn =~ m/dbi:mysql:(\w+)/; | 21:00 |
| @rizen | my $dbname = $1; | 21:00 |
| cap10morgan | ok, thanks | 21:00 |
| @rizen | ooh | 21:00 |
| @rizen | that regex needs to be case insensitive | 21:01 |
| @rizen | $dsn =~ m/dbi:mysql:(\w+)/i; | 21:01 |
| @rizen | like that | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | *cough*accessors*cough* | 21:01 |
| @rizen | huh? | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | objects need accessors | 21:01 |
| +MrAFKGrease | that doesn't work | 21:02 |
| @rizen | his question wasn't, what are the flaws in the DatabaseLink object's design | 21:02 |
| @rizen | his question was how do i get the dbname | 21:02 |
| +MrAFKGrease | dsn can be | 21:02 |
| PedersenMJ | cap10morgan: here's another way that's *almost* identical: | 21:02 |
| PedersenMJ | my $dsn = $dblink->get(); | 21:02 |
| +MrAFKGrease | DBI:mysql:dbNmae | 21:02 |
| +MrAFKGrease | DBI:mysql:database=dbName | 21:02 |
| +MrAFKGrease | and a host of other configurations | 21:03 |
| PedersenMJ | $dsn =~ s/dbi:mysql:(\w+)/$1/i; | 21:03 |
| +MrAFKGrease | check the sqlform code in 734 | 21:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Erm, change "$dsn" to "$dbname" | 21:03 |
| +MrAFKGrease | check the _databaseLinkHasPrivileges | 21:04 |
| +MrAFKGrease | sub | 21:05 |
| +MrAFKGrease | that get's the dbName from a dsn | 21:05 |
| +MrAFKGrease | http://rafb.net/p/HkmiC093.html | 21:06 |
| +MrAFKGrease | that's the relevant code | 21:06 |
| cap10morgan | MrAFKGrease: that code looks good, thanks | 21:07 |
| +MrAFKGrease | no problem | 21:07 |
| -!- MrAFKGrease is now known as MrHairgrease | 21:08 | |
| @rizen | that code won't work either | 21:11 |
| @rizen | if there is a hostname in the config | 21:11 |
| @rizen | dbi:mysql:mydb;host=localhost | 21:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | it does work | 21:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | tested that | 21:11 |
| @rizen | i don't see how that's possible | 21:12 |
| @rizen | see the pattern above | 21:12 |
| @rizen | what regex hits that pattern | 21:12 |
| @rizen | i don't see one | 21:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | first it splits on [:;] | 21:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | then it checks if the third entry has an '=' character | 21:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | if it hasn't | 21:13 |
| @rizen | ah | 21:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | it must be the dbname | 21:13 |
| @rizen | sorry, i didn't see the split | 21:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 21:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | you get it now =) | 21:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | ? | 21:13 |
| @rizen | indeed | 21:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | I based it on the ODBCdsn parde in DBD::mysql | 21:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | just to get all the undocumented ids for the dbName | 21:14 |
| cap10morgan | seems like a good addition to WebGUI::Utility.pm | 21:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | not utility | 21:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | maybe wg::ql | 21:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | wg::SQL* | 21:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | and WG:databaseLink | 21:15 |
| +perlDreamer | That second one sounds good to me | 21:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 21:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | i can also see it hav its use in in wg::sql | 21:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | the method in dblink could then just use that | 21:16 |
| @rizen | it seems like there should be a module to do this already out on cpan | 21:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | which one? | 21:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | i looked through dbi | 21:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | but couldn't find it | 21:21 |
| cap10morgan | MrHairgrease: should that regexp be set case insensitive? in case someone does dbi:mysql:DB=(db_name) or something like that? | 21:22 |
| @rizen | i looked through some too and can't find one | 21:22 |
| @rizen | it just seems like it should be out there | 21:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | if DBI is allowed lowercase | 21:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | it should be case incensitive | 21:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | i seems to me that dbi (or the dbd's) should include such a function | 21:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah I think case insensitve would be better | 21:24 |
| @rizen | i think that porn flavoring would be better | 21:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | porn flavoring? | 21:25 |
| @rizen | everything is better with porn flavoring | 21:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | cap10morgan: DBD:mysql is case sensitive | 21:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | so a dsn with DB= probably won't work | 21:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | still | 21:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | doesn't hurt to do it case insensitive | 21:27 |
| cap10morgan | MrHairgrease: ok | 21:28 |
| @snapcount | woo hoo | 22:35 |
| @snapcount | get to work on some bugs finally | 22:35 |
| @snapcount | sheesh... today has felt very... gosh I don't know | 22:35 |
| @snapcount | *sigh | 22:36 |
| @snapcount | rizen... can you talk some wiki? | 22:47 |
| @rizen | not right now | 22:49 |
| @snapcount | ok... I'll just go with it and we can discuss if any changes need to be made before the next release | 22:49 |
| +perlDreamer | as far as bug fixing goes, I'm working on one of the .wgaccess bugs and the WSClient pagination variables. | 23:17 |
| @rizen | ok roy | 23:18 |
| @rizen | do you still have questions | 23:18 |
| @snapcount | well | 23:19 |
| @snapcount | about deleting pages | 23:19 |
| @snapcount | what should happen if it has been purged? | 23:20 |
| @snapcount | should the restore link just say "sorry it was purged" | 23:20 |
| @snapcount | when they click | 23:20 |
| @rizen | no, there won't be any data left there for you to even generate the restore link | 23:20 |
| @rizen | since those links are based on data coming out of the asset table | 23:20 |
| @rizen | therefore there should be nothing displayed at all | 23:20 |
| @snapcount | ok so recent changes gets data on the fly | 23:21 |
| @snapcount | I see | 23:21 |
| @rizen | have you not looked at it? | 23:21 |
| @snapcount | not at recent changes yet... I just looked at how the delete was done | 23:21 |
| @snapcount | I think it's cool how you were able to do this using the asset/versioning system | 23:22 |
| @snapcount | I don't think I would have thought to do it this way | 23:22 |
| @rizen | why not...that's what it's there for | 23:22 |
| @rizen | why reinvent the wheel when you've already got everything you need | 23:23 |
| @snapcount | I don't know... it makes perfect sense seeing it in front of me | 23:23 |
| @snapcount | just never saw it being used like this | 23:23 |
| @snapcount | I don't know why though | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | it's almost exactly like the CS | 23:23 |
| @snapcount | yeah | 23:23 |
| @snapcount | that's the thing... I have never really studied the CS | 23:23 |
| @rizen | when drake did it he was trying to rebuild the versioning system too | 23:24 |
| @snapcount | so when I think user content, I think collateral | 23:24 |
| @snapcount | not asset | 23:24 |
| @rizen | his oriiginal wiki was 6 tables | 23:24 |
| @rizen | rather than the 2 tables i used | 23:24 |
| @snapcount | I really like how this works | 23:24 |
| @snapcount | very clean | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm glad you didn't try to shoehorn the Wiki into the CS | 23:24 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ | 23:28 | |
| * crythias tries to send messages on wg-dev including everyone's message as attachment. Also the HTML version of the reply underneath. :) | 23:29 | |
| @snapcount | damn it | 23:30 |
| @snapcount | I just caught myself being dumb again | 23:31 |
| -!- crythias is now known as noreply | 23:31 | |
| +noreply | untitled | 23:31 |
| @snapcount | me: "I need an actionTakenOn column" | 23:31 |
| @snapcount | oh wait | 23:31 |
| @snapcount | that's what revisionDate is | 23:31 |
| @snapcount | oh God help me | 23:31 |
| * snapcount kicks snapcount in the temple | 23:32 | |
| -!- noreply is now known as crythias | 23:32 | |
| @rizen | do you need help or are you talking outloud? | 23:32 |
| * crythias kicks snapcount in the mosque. | 23:34 | |
| +crythias | um, roy... actionTaken doesn't always correspond to revisionDate. | 23:36 |
| @rizen | you cannot use the assetHistory log | 23:36 |
| @rizen | and you don't need to either | 23:37 |
| @snapcount | ok straighten me out then. I was going to have the delete sub change the actionTaken to deleted and actionBy to the current user. Because the asset is going to be put in the trash, that would reflect the time it was deleted. If the asset is modified again (restored) then the revisionDate would change but at that point it doesn't matter | 23:41 |
| @snapcount | so if actionTaken is deleted, it would print in the recent history the message you wanted using actionTaken, actionTakenBy and revisionDate | 23:42 |
| @rizen | you're doing too much work | 23:42 |
| @rizen | all the data you need is already there | 23:42 |
| @snapcount | figures | 23:42 |
| @rizen | you have the state field | 23:43 |
| @snapcount | oh ok | 23:43 |
| @rizen | which will tell you if the asset is in the trash or not | 23:43 |
| @rizen | if it is | 23:43 |
| @rizen | then the links should have the "restore" link associated with them | 23:43 |
| @rizen | otherwise it shouldn't | 23:43 |
| @rizen | period | 23:43 |
| @rizen | if state is trash or trash-limbo | 23:44 |
| @rizen | or better yet | 23:44 |
| @rizen | youc an handle the clipboard state as well | 23:44 |
| @rizen | by simply doing | 23:44 |
| @rizen | if state ne "published" | 23:44 |
| @snapcount | ok... and you still want the link to be "WikiPage Title Deleted by abc on mm/dd/yyyy (restore)" part to be in the recent history right... | 23:47 |
| @rizen | on the recent history page | 23:48 |
| @rizen | on the front page you shouldn't include all that detail | 23:48 |
| @rizen | on the recent history page we include that kind of detail | 23:48 |
| +perlDreamer | will that require special casing the recentHistory display on the front page? | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | right now the same code is used in both places | 23:49 |
| @rizen | how do i even answer that question | 23:50 |
| @rizen | it's almost as if you don't know how webgui works | 23:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, I know that *I* don't know how it works :) | 23:50 |
| @rizen | ok | 23:51 |
| @rizen | every template has a set of variables behind it | 23:51 |
| @rizen | if you want to do something the template doesn't allow for | 23:51 |
| @rizen | then you add more variables | 23:51 |
| @rizen | in this case, we don't currently have a variable to say "ifDeleted" do something | 23:51 |
| @rizen | or isInTrash | 23:51 |
| @rizen | or whatever | 23:51 |
| @rizen | so yes, we need to add new template variables | 23:51 |
| @rizen | and yes we need to change the template on the front page | 23:52 |
| @rizen | as well as the template on the recent history page | 23:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, at least conceptually speaking, that makes sense to me. | 23:52 |
| +perlDreamer | you do realize that's a philosophical decision, rather than a technical one? | 23:52 |
| PedersenMJ | I still need to take the time to dig into the code and understand such. | 23:52 |
| @rizen | if isInTrash { title (<link>restore</link>) } else { <link>title</title>} | 23:53 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer, how do you figure? | 23:53 |
| +perlDreamer | the same result can be achieved either by special casing the code so that it returns things differently or by adding new template variables. | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | Unlike last night's discussion, | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think special casing the code is a good idea | 23:54 |
| @rizen | special casing the code limits the templating options | 23:55 |
| @rizen | and is therefore not the right thing to do | 23:55 |
| @rizen | except where there is a performance consideration | 23:55 |
| @rizen | we expose template variables | 23:55 |
| @rizen | so that the user can decide | 23:55 |
| @rizen | what things should look like | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 23:56 |
| --- Day changed Thu Jan 11 2007 | ||
| @snapcount | sweet | 00:02 |
| @snapcount | I think that answers all the questions then | 00:02 |
| @snapcount | I'm glad I asked you guys first | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | We got some press today | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | http://lwn.net/images/pdf/opteros-catalog-2007.pdf | 00:02 |
| @snapcount | eeeeeeek | 00:02 |
| @snapcount | pdf == evil | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | talk to Opteros about it | 00:02 |
| @snapcount | which of the 262 pages did we get press on? | 00:04 |
| @snapcount | all of them I hope =P | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | page 32 (of 47) | 00:04 |
| @snapcount | oh | 00:04 |
| @snapcount | that's 262 projects | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 00:04 |
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| @snapcount | I don't understand their symbols and I'm too lazy to look for the key | 00:05 |
| @snapcount | 3 stars for community seems encouraging | 00:05 |
| @snapcount | especially at version 7.0.7 | 00:06 |
| @snapcount | We're a "Easy to use and deploy content management system" | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I was just happy to be listed. | 00:06 |
| @snapcount | the shit is wrong though | 00:07 |
| @snapcount | it says our support is only community | 00:07 |
| @snapcount | that makes me angry b/c the people who read this probably require professional support | 00:07 |
| @snapcount | and we have a sideways trend so I wonder if that means they think we're stable or stagnant | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | stable | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | stagnant is down | 00:08 |
| @snapcount | what does up mean? | 00:08 |
| @snapcount | or diagonal up | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | growing? | 00:08 |
| @snapcount | hmmm | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | Here's an Optaros contact (page 45) | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | Brian Otis botis@optaros.com | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | give him a screenful | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | sideways = "Solution/component is not progressing and retains its viability" | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | see page 10 | 00:09 |
| @snapcount | Dear Brian, thank you for listing us but we respectfully request that you tell everyone we are far superior than anything else in your guide. In fact, please list nothing but our product. Yours truly, the MaN | 00:10 |
| @snapcount | poor research | 00:10 |
| @snapcount | we had just released 7 a complete rewrite essentially | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | Dear Brian, You may have missed the fact that WebGUI is hosted by the company that makes it, Plain Black. | 00:10 |
| @snapcount | but we're not progressing? | 00:10 |
| @snapcount | this is crap | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | "quality and richness even decreases in comparison to the competition" | 00:11 |
| +perlDreamer | so not necessarily progressing, but not keeping up with the Joneses | 00:11 |
| @rizen | Dear Brian, You got all of your facts about WebGUI wrong, but we're just happy to be listed, so thanks. With Love, PB | 00:12 |
| @snapcount | nice | 00:12 |
| @snapcount | I like yours the best so far | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | This was also before the website redesign, wasn't it? 7.0.7? | 00:16 |
| @snapcount | before the pb redesign? | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 00:17 |
| @snapcount | I think so | 00:17 |
| @snapcount | crap... must get my learn on | 00:17 |
| @snapcount | later guys | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | bye | 00:17 |
| -!- snapcount is now known as snap_away | 00:18 | |
| -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit ["Leaving."] | 00:23 | |
| -!- Radix__ changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable 7.2.3 | beta 7.3.4) | WRE (0.7.2) | Use the Wiki: http://plainblack.com/support/community-wiki | Questions? Ask and wait patiently | http://mentalhouse.net/irc/webgui | 00:39 | |
| @khenn | waaaaahooooo | 01:07 |
| @khenn | doug, I got that mouseover thing to work finally | 01:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | later guys | 01:16 |
| +perlDreamer | :w | 01:16 |
| +perlDreamer | later | 01:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | time to go to bed | 01:16 |
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| +perlDreamer | has anyone tested the FilePile since 7.3.4 was released? | 01:23 |
| @rizen | gotta go talk to some perl mongers. later peeps. | 01:28 |
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| -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit ["Leaving"] | 02:06 | |
| -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui | 02:18 | |
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| @khenn | If anyone would like to test, I just fixed the calendar tip tools for IE so they don't show up behind the event | 03:20 |
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| @khenn | I haven't tested in some of the other browsers (Safari, Opera, etc) | 03:21 |
| @khenn | could use some help there | 03:21 |
| @preaction-m | i'll test safari quick | 03:22 |
| @preaction-m | and works in opera 9.10 too | 03:26 |
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| @khenn | got booted | 03:40 |
| @khenn | anything interesting going on? | 03:43 |
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| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 04:58 | |
| PedersenMJ | Herm, dang. Was hoping JT was on. Anybody else know this question? If I make a template for a site (template/style/package), how upwards compatible will it be? | 05:00 |
| PedersenMJ | In other words, if I take a theme I found, and convert it to be used with WebGUI 7.2, how likely is it to work for 7.3? | 05:00 |
| @preaction-m | JT promised backwards compat unti Dec 2009 | 05:22 |
| @preaction-m | so until Dec 2009 | 05:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Nice. Thank you. | 05:23 |
| PedersenMJ | That means I don't have to worry, which is very good. I'd hate to learn this process (even though it looks pretty easy, actually), and then find the work was wasted :) | 05:24 |
| @preaction-m | i wonder if I should write something that can fix template incompatibilies from version to version | 05:24 |
| @preaction-m | it should be simple, especially for HTML::Template and HTML::Template::Expr templates | 05:25 |
| @preaction-m | Template Toolkit might be a bit more difficult | 05:25 |
| @preaction-m | i've been commissioned to write a better upgrade system, and my eventual goal is to abolish the "upgrade steps" and "backwards compatibility" crap | 05:26 |
| @preaction-m | of course, custom code... I can't go in and edit that, it'd be insane | 05:26 |
| @preaction-m | unless... I use Perl's new syntax tree creator thingy! hmm... | 05:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh. I think there are limits to my insanity. Don't think I'd wanna handle a perl parser :) | 05:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, this kinda sucks. Don't know what steps I missed. Working through this tutorial: http://www.plainblack.com/builders/how-to-build-a-style | 05:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Have made it to "Preview Your Template" | 05:28 |
| @preaction-m | the guy who did a Perl::Critic talk at madmongers explained it | 05:28 |
| PedersenMJ | And now... I can't see the style as an available style in my dropdown list. | 05:29 |
| @preaction-m | damnit, who wrote this documentation? | 05:30 |
| @preaction-m | KRISTIE! | 05:30 |
| PedersenMJ | uh-oh... That doesn't sound good at all... | 05:31 |
| @preaction-m | it's wrong | 05:31 |
| @preaction-m | the last steps before you preview your template | 05:31 |
| @preaction-m | you should choose "namespace" as "style" | 05:32 |
| @preaction-m | also, submit a bug for the documentation if you would | 05:32 |
| @preaction-m | since you can't edit the template's namespace after you create it, you'll have to re-create your template | 05:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Ummm... It just let me? | 05:33 |
| @preaction-m | did it work? | 05:33 |
| PedersenMJ | It seems to have done so, yes. | 05:33 |
| @preaction-m | can you see it under "style" on another asset? | 05:33 |
| PedersenMJ | Yes. | 05:33 |
| @preaction-m | weird | 05:33 |
| @preaction-m | maybe my RFE got implemented | 05:33 |
| PedersenMJ | 7.2.0-beta is where it worked. | 05:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Bug report submitted, too. | 05:37 |
| @preaction-m | did you just go "back" and then do it? | 05:37 |
| @preaction-m | once you've submitted and you can't go back, you have to go to the "Metadata" tab to see a template's namespace, and then you can't change it | 05:37 |
| @preaction-m | feel free to continue submitting bug reports you find in the documentation as well | 05:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, did not do "back". Had to re-navigate through the Root/Import Node/Burned, and then click "edit" on the template. | 05:39 |
| @preaction-m | that is weird... you got a "namespace" field? i'm looking on plainblack.com and there isn't one | 05:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep, I had it, and was able to change it, and even use it. | 05:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, for CSS, style sheets, is this another typo? background: #ff0000 url('carotFileUrl(images/red_bg.gif);'); | 05:43 |
| PedersenMJ | Since the ^ is usually spelled "carat" | 05:43 |
| PedersenMJ | I thought. | 05:43 |
| @preaction-m | there has to be a way to escape the caret. | 05:44 |
| @preaction-m | but we've got three different spellings now ;-) | 05:44 |
| @preaction-m | it's caret, says dictionary.com | 05:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Dang, forgot that. | 05:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Used to know that. Must have been thinking diamonds, or something. | 05:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Wow... I would say she sucks at Docs, but I'm not much better. | 05:47 |
| @preaction-m | i think it's just the medium, she seems to be good at pagemaker | 05:48 |
| PedersenMJ | So, how do I "upload to your style template's directory, making sure to give it the URL you specified in the head of the document." | 05:48 |
| @preaction-m | like the print stuff she's done is excellent | 05:48 |
| @preaction-m | good god, what does that MEAN? | 05:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, I'm working on the CSS file for my theme. | 05:49 |
| @preaction-m | and you're making a snippet for it? | 05:49 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm supposed to upload it to the style's folder, I think, but... Nope, I had the actual file ready to go, instead of using the snippet. | 05:49 |
| Radix-wrk | So upload it as a file/file pile to the same directory as your style | 05:50 |
| @preaction-m | oh yeah, just make a File asset in the folder, it will ask you to upload and specify the URL | 05:50 |
| +crythias | heyall | 05:50 |
| @preaction-m | (may want to append "clarify this line '' to this ''" to your bug report | 05:50 |
| Radix-wrk | the file/filepile is smart - it recognises .css files, converts them to snippets and sets the right mime type | 05:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Aha... Yeah, it tried to put the file under "burned/burned.css" instead of "/burned.css" | 05:51 |
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| @preaction-m | did you explicitly give it the correct URL? | 05:51 |
| PedersenMJ | I have now, I thought, but am unable to retrieve it. | 05:51 |
| Radix-wrk | You shouldn't use explicit paths in your style if you want to package it later though | 05:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Which goes explicitly *against* the docs on that page. | 05:52 |
| Radix-wrk | Wouldn't surprise me :) | 05:52 |
| @preaction-m | i'd say get a discussion going. perhaps we need to start adding Threads to our documentation, like a lot of FOSS software packages do, so users can post additional information about the docs | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Dammit. I have *no* idea how I'm supposed to find this css file. | 05:54 |
| @preaction-m | like annocpan, or mysql's docs | 05:54 |
| @preaction-m | it should be in the folder you uploaded it into | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Root/Import Node/Burned | 05:54 |
| @preaction-m | though notice at the very bottom of the doc, there's a lesson on creating a snippet to hold your CSS | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, did it as a snippet, and still get 404 on that url. | 05:59 |
| @preaction-m | check permissions? commit version tag? | 06:00 |
| PedersenMJ | So, here's where I am, what I've done. Hopefully, someone can tell me how I've been the idiot :) | 06:02 |
| PedersenMJ | I've turned an index.html page into a template page (adding vars, etc, as needed). | 06:02 |
| PedersenMJ | I've made a new folder, named "Burned", under Root->Import Node | 06:03 |
| PedersenMJ | (The name of the theme is, obviously, Burned) | 06:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Under that folder, I've made another folder called "images", which is where I've stashed the relevant images for the theme (all four of them) | 06:03 |
| PedersenMJ | In the "Burned" folder, I've placed the templatized index.html, and marked it as a style. | 06:04 |
| PedersenMJ | I've created a snippet, given it the url of "burned.css". | 06:04 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, the style works *as a style*. But I can't (outside of WebGUI Admin Console) see burned.css | 06:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Nor can I see any of my images (just tried) outside of webgui. | 06:05 |
| @preaction-m | did you commit your version tag? did you check the permissions on this stuff? | 06:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Haven't checked the commit version tag. BTW, I know that, to some degree, I sound like I know what I'm doing. I don't. I've never used WebGUI for anything other than "Hey, that's a pretty cool looking thing." | 06:07 |
| @preaction-m | commit your version tag and see if that works | 06:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, improvement. images showed up. Now double-checking the burned.css snippet, to make sure I did what I was supposed to. | 06:09 |
| @preaction-m | anybody else getting an iPhone? i think i might just get a Cingular 8525 (HTC TyTN) right now, rather than wait 6 months and pay $600 for something that I'm not sure will tether to my laptop for internet access | 06:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Sweet! Now, I've got issues with my template, but *that's* fine. Now I'm down to working out the bugs in the template itself, rather than trying to figure out why I can't even find URLs that should be there :) | 06:11 |
| @preaction-m | boy those crickets just got loud | 06:11 |
| Radix-wrk | iPhone looks nice in that they've done away with the stylus - and it's going to push the whole windows mobile development along heaps I'm hoping | 06:12 |
| Radix-wrk | I hope to see heaps of iPhone interface clones for WM5 in the coming months | 06:12 |
| @preaction-m | indeed, well, if it's a true OSX and not a "version" like windows CE is a "version" of Windows | 06:12 |
| PedersenMJ | As for iPhone, I rather doubt I'll get it. I might, finally, get a mac by the end of the year, but iPhone doesn't quite look like what I want. | 06:12 |
| Radix-wrk | pfft.. sif it's a full OSX | 06:12 |
| @preaction-m | if it has the full suite of libraries, and can compile some simple NES emulators, i'm totally down | 06:13 |
| Radix-wrk | I have an O2 Atom atm myself | 06:13 |
| Radix-wrk | Similar size and shape to the iphone, though admittedly a bit fatter (about 7mm) | 06:14 |
| @preaction-m | haven't heard of that one, googling | 06:14 |
| @preaction-m | does it tether to bluetooth computers and provide a modem? | 06:15 |
| Radix-wrk | of course | 06:15 |
| Radix-wrk | wifi as well | 06:15 |
| @preaction-m | FM radio tuner, nice | 06:15 |
| Radix-wrk | the exec has a 520Mhz processor too | 06:15 |
| @preaction-m | seriously? | 06:16 |
| Radix-wrk | interesting that there are no technical specs for the iPhone too - did you notice that | 06:16 |
| @preaction-m | the TyTN only gets 400MHz | 06:16 |
| Radix-wrk | they do not say what processor is running in it, or how much memory (just 4GB/8GB storage) | 06:16 |
| @preaction-m | yeah... another reason why i don't want to wait really | 06:16 |
| Radix-wrk | the o2 atom is only triband GSM tho | 06:17 |
| Radix-wrk | you prolly want quad band in the US | 06:17 |
| @preaction-m | really? i don't understand those things | 06:17 |
| Radix-wrk | In Australia though, we only really use GSM, so fine for us | 06:17 |
| @preaction-m | does o2 atom have removable storage? micro-sd? | 06:18 |
| Radix-wrk | you guys use different frequencies to us | 06:18 |
| Radix-wrk | yeah.. mini-sd, has a nice little slot at the top | 06:18 |
| @preaction-m | no keyboard at all? | 06:18 |
| Radix-wrk | nup | 06:18 |
| @preaction-m | so an on-screen display | 06:19 |
| Radix-wrk | stylus/touch screen for keypad yeah | 06:19 |
| @preaction-m | how will i type efficiently with that? :'( no deal | 06:19 |
| @preaction-m | iphone also, no keyboard, but the other features and awesomeness outweighs my need to have a keyboard so i can IRC | 06:19 |
| @preaction-m | but i suppose if i'm tethering, why would i need a keyboard? | 06:20 |
| Radix-wrk | I mostly use mine for ebooks and phone calls myself | 06:20 |
| Radix-wrk | I text, but not enough that it's a big burden | 06:20 |
| Radix-wrk | I have to use the stylus for the texting | 06:20 |
| @preaction-m | my main goal is complete mobility. i want to be able to be half-way across the country in the middle of nowhere. if i have digital cell reception, i can work ;) | 06:21 |
| @preaction-m | i know it's a lofty, unattainable goal, but it's fun to try | 06:21 |
| Radix-wrk | i love the ability to read ebooks wherever I go myself - while standing in a queue, while on the train/bus, any moment where I have free time and a free hand to hold the phone | 06:21 |
| Radix-wrk | I have a mini-sd full of ebooks and just read whenever I like | 06:22 |
| @preaction-m | and, heh, apparently o2 doesn't have sales outside the US | 06:22 |
| @preaction-m | i'd have to import and beg someone to be my carrier | 06:22 |
| Radix-wrk | imate probably do a clone | 06:22 |
| Radix-wrk | it's not a HTC phone tho.. unlike almost every other one out there | 06:23 |
| Radix-wrk | it's made by another taiwanese manufacturer - Quanta | 06:23 |
| Radix-wrk | the tytn looks good if you like the slideout keyboard tho | 06:24 |
| @preaction-m | i do indeed | 06:24 |
| @preaction-m | also the i-mate JamIn has a 200mhz processor, not enough for my plans for mobile software development (if I can't get an NES emulator durnit i'll make one) | 06:25 |
| Radix-wrk | it has hsdpa too, which the iPhone never will :) | 06:25 |
| Radix-wrk | yeah, I looked at the jamin when I got my atom | 06:25 |
| @preaction-m | but the jamin has the conference call thingy | 06:25 |
| Radix-wrk | nice, but everyone was complaining about the processor speed not being enough for skype, etc | 06:26 |
| @preaction-m | ooh, i need skype for work | 06:26 |
| @preaction-m | crap | 06:26 |
| Radix-wrk | there is a low processor version of skype now tho | 06:26 |
| @preaction-m | worst thing about Cingular, they neutered the tytn and removed the user-facing camera (so no video phoning) | 06:27 |
| Radix-wrk | Umm.. would you ever actually use it anyway? | 06:27 |
| @preaction-m | webcam-like feature, i assume | 06:27 |
| @preaction-m | but i suppose the front-facing one would work just fine for that | 06:28 |
| * PedersenMJ interrupts: http://www.nochara.org/testpage | 06:28 | |
| @preaction-m | with a bluetooth headset | 06:28 |
| PedersenMJ | I've still got to fix a bunch of things in there, such as how the left column gets used, and the navigation menus, but it's a start. | 06:28 |
| @preaction-m | looks nice, but it looks like it's missing images (or it just doen'st like me) | 06:28 |
| Radix-wrk | yeah, no images here either | 06:28 |
| @preaction-m | otherwise it looks great actually | 06:28 |
| PedersenMJ | And I've gotta thank you two for helping it get this far. Even with those docs, I wouldn't have gotten this far. Ah, forgot them, thank you! | 06:29 |
| * preaction-m hates the current default style with a passion | 06:29 | |
| PedersenMJ | I see why they're missing. That carotFileUrl bit in the docs is (also) wrong. | 06:29 |
| @preaction-m | i want to propose having the demo sites randomly pick one of a dozen or so styles when a demo is created | 06:29 |
| @preaction-m | ew ew ew | 06:29 |
| Radix-wrk | that'd be cool | 06:30 |
| @preaction-m | good thing you decided to use them | 06:30 |
| PedersenMJ | the docs? | 06:30 |
| @preaction-m | yes | 06:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Why, so I can report all the errors? :) | 06:30 |
| @preaction-m | the demo thing might be something i just Implement and show off, it seems that you get better results from JT if you show him something that works, and not just an idea | 06:30 |
| Radix-wrk | Did you know you can use "richEditorsUseAssetUrls" : "1" and "enableStreamingUploads" : "1", to avoid the whole fileurl macro completely? | 06:31 |
| @preaction-m | PedersenMJ: exactly | 06:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Radix-wrk: Nope, sure didn't. | 06:31 |
| Radix-wrk | you can then use the webgui url's everywhere and they'll get auto-converted | 06:31 |
| @preaction-m | hell, i didn't :p | 06:31 |
| PedersenMJ | As for reporting all of the problems, I'm definitely going to have a list. Hell, I'm going to have re-read this whole convo just to do so. | 06:31 |
| Radix-wrk | heh | 06:32 |
| @preaction-m | good idea, if we can start re-building a decent documentation base for WebGUI, we might get back the community we lost | 06:32 |
| @preaction-m | apparently this place (and others) used to be popular | 06:32 |
| Radix-wrk | interesting to see the irc logs actually | 06:33 |
| Radix-wrk | When I started idling on here this place was down to 2-3 ppl | 06:33 |
| Radix-wrk | less sometimes | 06:33 |
| @preaction-m | was that about last oct? i think that's when i started hanging out | 06:34 |
| @preaction-m | first as Hawkaloogie, then with a more PC nethandle | 06:34 |
| Radix-wrk | I started earlier in the year - probably 4-5 months before then I think | 06:34 |
| Radix-wrk | was just me, xdanger and crythias mostly | 06:35 |
| @preaction-m | whatever happened to that guy doing the myspace-like thing with webgui? | 06:35 |
| Radix-wrk | mashy? | 06:36 |
| PedersenMJ | For some reason, that handle makes me think of the movie "Finding Nemo". Mt Wannahawkaloogie. | 06:36 |
| @preaction-m | i don't even remember now | 06:36 |
| Radix-wrk | http://juga.org/gadgets btw ;) | 06:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, here's another fun one: If I'm working on a CSS snippet, how should I specify a background image? (samples coming) | 06:38 |
| Radix-wrk | you can use the fileurl method | 06:38 |
| @preaction-m | probably a ^FileUrl(); | 06:38 |
| PedersenMJ | background: #000000 url(^FileUrl(images/a1.jpg);) top left | 06:38 |
| PedersenMJ | background: #000000 url('carotFileUrl(images/a2.jpg);') top left | 06:39 |
| Radix-wrk | or if you set the above parameters I said, you can use put in images/a1.jpg | 06:39 |
| PedersenMJ | I've already uploaded the files, though. | 06:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Wait, I think I misunderstood how to do it... Where do I set those parameters? | 06:40 |
| @preaction-m | in the configuration file | 06:41 |
| Radix-wrk | in your webgui config file | 06:41 |
| @preaction-m | it will even Just Work when you export it | 06:41 |
| @preaction-m | (right?) | 06:41 |
| Radix-wrk | you'll need to restart webgui when you've done it | 06:41 |
| Radix-wrk | You mean package it? | 06:41 |
| @preaction-m | yeah | 06:41 |
| Radix-wrk | not sure actually.. not tried it | 06:42 |
| @preaction-m | wait, you have a Nintento Power Glove modded for your PC? | 06:42 |
| Radix-wrk | yep | 06:42 |
| @preaction-m | how the heck did that happen? | 06:42 |
| @preaction-m | did you do it? | 06:42 |
| Radix-wrk | that was part of my honours thesis project actually | 06:42 |
| Radix-wrk | yeah, was pretty easy to do, just followed instructions | 06:42 |
| @preaction-m | good lord | 06:42 |
| @preaction-m | there's something like 20 buttons on that thing, no? | 06:43 |
| Radix-wrk | I experimented with new 3d interface techniques for virtual worlds using the powerglove as my thesis | 06:43 |
| Radix-wrk | yeah, it has a full d-pad and the like on it | 06:43 |
| @preaction-m | and with 7 pins, 1 ground and 1 input leaving 5, there's only a possibility of .. nevermind, far more than 20 buttons | 06:43 |
| Radix-wrk | ain't used that in years tho.. did that about 12 years ago | 06:44 |
| @preaction-m | 5! = 120 | 06:44 |
| Radix-wrk | it's in a plastic bag collecting dust these days :) | 06:44 |
| @preaction-m | crap i'm young | 06:44 |
| @preaction-m | you could totally use that thing as some sort of space-age web browsing device | 06:45 |
| @preaction-m | a la Minority Report | 06:45 |
| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui | 06:45 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ | 06:46 | |
| @preaction-m | AH! Run! | 06:46 |
| Radix-wrk | better to simply get a Nintendo Wii-mote these days tho :) | 06:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, he has risen ;) | 06:47 |
| @preaction-m | ooh even better, it's already bluetooth | 06:47 |
| @rizen | are you running from me doug? | 06:47 |
| @preaction-m | and iirc there's already drivers for OSX and others | 06:47 |
| @preaction-m | uh.... no? | 06:47 |
| Radix-wrk | the powerglove used ink switches - only 2 bits of info per finger - so you could only really get open or closed reliably I found | 06:47 |
| @preaction-m | that's still pretty durned cool | 06:48 |
| @preaction-m | but add some sort of switches at the base of the finger for up/down/left/right movements, and maybe an accelerometer for the whole hand, and you'd be golden | 06:48 |
| Radix-wrk | yeah, was great fun to turn my playing around with it into my honours thesis :) | 06:48 |
| Radix-wrk | it does give 3d motion as well | 06:49 |
| Radix-wrk | it had sensor bar that went on your tv much like the wiimotes do today | 06:49 |
| @preaction-m | in/out, up/down, left/right? | 06:49 |
| Radix-wrk | so it could give 3d positioning in space | 06:49 |
| @preaction-m | now I want to play with one. did you just hook it up to a parallel port and start probing? | 06:50 |
| Radix-wrk | nah.. found instructions on what to wire up where - got power for it from the game port (5v), and parallel for everything else | 06:50 |
| Radix-wrk | there was already drivers written for the virtual construction set - a virtual reality toolkit | 06:51 |
| Radix-wrk | I grabbed the c code for that and simply extended it to add my own custom UI stuff | 06:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, rizen? Tricky question for ya: I'm working on one of those themes right now, and having an issue with some background images. I've set the CSS up as a snippet, and the images referenced in it aren't being resolved. Tried setting some extra options that Radix gave me for rich editors, but the CSS snippets don't use rich editors. Anyway, I need to know how to put a ^FileUrl() macro into the CSS snippet, and can't find it (yet). | 06:51 |
| @preaction-m | you just edit the snippet and type ^FileUrl(url/to/the/file.jpg); | 06:52 |
| Radix-wrk | virtual reality was the field I was hoping to get into after graduating.. got into CAD/CAM instead | 06:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Tried that. Source: "background: #000000 url(^FileUrl(images/a1.jpg);) top left no-repeat;" Output: "background: #000000 url('carotFileUrl(images/a2.jpg);') top left no-repeat;" | 06:53 |
| @rizen | make sure that the FileUrl macro is turned on in your webgui config | 06:54 |
| @rizen | cuz what doug said is absolutely correct | 06:54 |
| @preaction-m | but why would it turn into 'carotFileUrl'? is the snippet not being processed as a template perhaps? | 06:55 |
| @preaction-m | a note: better to ask questions to the entire channel, saying someone's name usually causes their IRC client to beep annoyingly | 06:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, sorry. Thank you. Will do so. | 06:55 |
| @rizen | the template thing has nothing to do with it | 06:56 |
| @rizen | cuz macros aren't templates | 06:56 |
| @rizen | that is weird | 06:56 |
| @rizen | that it's turning into the word carrot | 06:56 |
| PedersenMJ | I just turned on "process as template" to make sure. And just re-checked config file. FileUrl *is* enabled. | 06:57 |
| PedersenMJ | It's worth noting that this is 7.2.0. | 06:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, not quite the word carrot (the vegetable), but rather the word carot (mispelling of caret, or one of the other variants of the same). | 06:58 |
| @rizen | ok sorry | 06:58 |
| @rizen | my faout | 06:58 |
| @rizen | fault | 06:58 |
| @rizen | but still | 06:58 |
| @rizen | i have no idea what would cause that | 06:58 |
| @rizen | regardless, you should at least be running on the latest 7.2.x release | 06:59 |
| PedersenMJ | "macros" : { (among others), "FileUrl" : "FileUrl", (and many others) } | 06:59 |
| @rizen | but i don't think that has anything to do with this problem | 06:59 |
| @rizen | it's just a statement | 06:59 |
| PedersenMJ | It wasn't trying to point out error on your part, it was just in case it was somehow significant. | 06:59 |
| PedersenMJ | As for the upgrade, I'm doing it once 7.3 is marked as stable. Definitely doing it then. | 07:00 |
| @preaction-m | woohoo, frank's fixed the calendar's tooltip bugs, and it works on every browser i've tested (IE7, FF2, Opera, Safari, Konqueror). yay Yui! | 07:00 |
| @rizen | the word "carot" does not exist in the source code of webgui | 07:01 |
| @rizen | so something else is doing that | 07:01 |
| @rizen | could you paste the snippet into that snippet site | 07:02 |
| @rizen | and put the url here | 07:02 |
| @preaction-m | PedersenMJ: is that test URL still valid? | 07:02 |
| @rizen | what's it called | 07:02 |
| @rizen | paste? | 07:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Now *that* is weird. http://www.nochara.org/testpage | 07:02 |
| PedersenMJ | What's weird: I was following the docs from http://www.plainblack.com/builders/how-to-build-a-style | 07:02 |
| @rizen | http://rafb.net/paste/ | 07:03 |
| @rizen | copy the contents of the snippet into that | 07:03 |
| @rizen | and post the url | 07:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, in *that* page, "carot" does appear. I had followed the steps to upload the css, and named it "burned.css". The snippet is now being resolved as "burned2.css", but doesn't (as far as I recall) have the word "carot" in it. | 07:04 |
| PedersenMJ | Will c/p now, just a sec. | 07:04 |
| @preaction-m | did you commit your version tag? ;) | 07:04 |
| PedersenMJ | http://rafb.net/p/88qqi371.html | 07:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Yes, test url is still valid. And I've been committing version tags ever since I found out I was an idiot for not doing so :) | 07:05 |
| @preaction-m | ok, your snippet is not what's being shown at burned2.css | 07:06 |
| @preaction-m | you might want to check if there's a running workflow | 07:06 |
| PedersenMJ | What? Weirdness... gimme a minute. | 07:06 |
| @preaction-m | Admin Console > Workflow > Show Running Workflows (in the right column) | 07:06 |
| @preaction-m | if you notice the bottom stuff at burned2.css is different from what you pasted | 07:06 |
| @rizen | i was going to say | 07:06 |
| @rizen | there are a couple of problems here | 07:07 |
| @preaction-m | (it doesn't have .loginBox class, for example) | 07:07 |
| @rizen | number 1: what he said | 07:07 |
| @rizen | 2: what you pasted doesn't have ' ' around the macro | 07:07 |
| @rizen | but if you look at http://www.nochara.org/burned2.css | 07:07 |
| @rizen | it does have ' ' | 07:07 |
| @rizen | so they aren't the same content | 07:07 |
| @rizen | 3: your <link> tag in your content | 07:08 |
| @rizen | doesn't specify a fully qualified url | 07:08 |
| @rizen | which is going to cause problems after the home page | 07:08 |
| @rizen | if you ever do get this working | 07:08 |
| PedersenMJ | Dang it. I forgot to restart spectre when I restarted webgui when I added those params for the rich editor. | 07:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, that's better. Now I've just got bad URLs, but that's not as big a deal. | 07:14 |
| PedersenMJ | And then the remaining issues you've already laid out, rizen. | 07:14 |
| PedersenMJ | JT == rizen, yes? If so, do you mind if I call you JT? | 07:16 |
| @rizen | don't care | 07:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Thanks. BTW, my handle is pretty close to real name, if you wish to use it. Michael Pedersen (or Mike, or Ped, or Pedersen, or pick something else, just not my nose). | 07:17 |
| @rizen | hey you | 07:17 |
| @rizen | does that work? | 07:18 |
| @preaction-m | yes? | 07:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, it's now pretty close. Once I restarted spectre, burned2.css was updated. Now, I'm getting bad URLs in the CSS, but that's something for me to try and dig into. | 07:18 |
| PedersenMJ | background: #000000 url('/uploads/Sb/Gl/SbGlwgPoH_ufB065IfYtDQ/a1.jpg') top left no-repeat; | 07:19 |
| @rizen | why is that a bad url? | 07:19 |
| PedersenMJ | As opposed to "url('/images/a1.jpg')" | 07:19 |
| @rizen | the first url is the real url of the file | 07:19 |
| PedersenMJ | That url gives me a 404, though. | 07:19 |
| @rizen | wherase /images/a1.jpg is the asset url | 07:19 |
| @rizen | if you just want to use /images/a1.jpg | 07:20 |
| @rizen | then just type that in there | 07:20 |
| @rizen | and skip the macro part of it | 07:20 |
| @rizen | no ^FileUrl(); | 07:20 |
| PedersenMJ | Wouldn't it be better for me to use the macro, or the AssetProxy() macro? | 07:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Especially if I'm going to be packaging it? | 07:21 |
| @rizen | the asset proxy macro definitely not | 07:21 |
| @rizen | cuz that will give you <img src="/uploads/Sb/Gl/SbGlwgPoH_ufB065IfYtDQ/a1.jpg" alt="xxx" /> | 07:22 |
| @rizen | which obviously won't work in the style sheet | 07:22 |
| PedersenMJ | True, didn't think of that. | 07:22 |
| @rizen | here's the real difference between ^FileUrl(); and just using the raw asset url | 07:22 |
| @rizen | it's where you want your processing done | 07:23 |
| @rizen | using FileUrl puts the real url of the file into your html code | 07:23 |
| @rizen | that way, when the page requests the file | 07:23 |
| @rizen | the web server can just serve up the image | 07:23 |
| @rizen | without hitting the database | 07:23 |
| @rizen | also...the html will be cached | 07:23 |
| @rizen | so if the page is requested again | 07:23 |
| @rizen | they'll never hit the db at all | 07:24 |
| @rizen | not for the page | 07:24 |
| @rizen | or the image | 07:24 |
| @rizen | second | 07:24 |
| @rizen | if you use the asset url | 07:24 |
| @rizen | then there's no processing done while creating the html page | 07:24 |
| @rizen | but there is processing done when the image is requested | 07:24 |
| @rizen | because it's got to look up thte asset url in the database | 07:24 |
| @rizen | instanciate the image asset | 07:24 |
| @rizen | and then return the image | 07:25 |
| @rizen | so it does a lot more work | 07:25 |
| @rizen | the advantage of the first route is better performance (using FileUrl) | 07:25 |
| @rizen | the advantage of the second rount (not using FileUrl) is vanity | 07:25 |
| @rizen | because the urls in the code look prettier | 07:25 |
| @rizen | but who the hell looks at the code | 07:26 |
| @rizen | i always choose performance | 07:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Screw it, I'll go with the ugly urls. I'm not particularly picky about that :) | 07:26 |
| @rizen | i know what we should do | 07:36 |
| @rizen | let's email the dev mailing list | 07:36 |
| @rizen | and suggest we do something that jt has already said we can't do | 07:36 |
| @rizen | yeah, that would be fun | 07:36 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, now, maybe he's just an idiot like me, and needs a sound beating with a clue-by-four, eh? | 07:38 |
| @rizen | i'm a bad person to be running a community | 07:39 |
| @rizen | i just have no patience | 07:39 |
| @rizen | we just need to pour my knowledge into someone with infinite patience | 07:39 |
| @rizen | and we'd have the ultimate webgui community leader | 07:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Problem: Since there is no human with infinite patience, we'd sooner or later get a crabby old man saying "You kids get off my damn lawn!", which would leave us back where we started ;) | 07:41 |
| @rizen | ok then | 07:42 |
| PedersenMJ | Something tells me I just earned "stupidest idea of 2007" by teasing the leader. I'll just have to hope not. | 07:43 |
| @preaction-m | the year is young, and i have plenty of stupid ideas to think of yet | 07:44 |
| @rizen | nah teasing me does nothing | 07:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Good. Thick skin is good around me. | 07:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, it's gettingthere. For some reason, the snippet isn't updating again (and I've been reloading spectre to make sure it's running). However, the graphics are now there. | 07:50 |
| PedersenMJ | As is the login (but, since it's white on light background, it's *very* difficult to see). | 07:51 |
| @rizen | make sure you set the cache timeout to 0 | 07:51 |
| @rizen | while you're working on it | 07:51 |
| @rizen | why am i supporting you...i shouldn't be doing hta | 07:51 |
| @rizen | tthat | 07:52 |
| PedersenMJ | I never thought of that. Thank you. Just restarted the web server. | 07:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Because I'm a nice guy? | 07:52 |
| @rizen | lots of people are nice guys | 07:52 |
| @rizen | but if i support all of them | 07:52 |
| @rizen | i'm out of business | 07:52 |
| @rizen | and no more webgui | 07:52 |
| @preaction-m | i was under the impression that this package would be a commmunity contribution | 07:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, even though I'm not doing support incidents right now, I *am* looking to learn something to help grow the community (namely, how to make these themes work, and get packaged) | 07:53 |
| @preaction-m | he says hopefully | 07:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Not just this theme, but the other two I found last night. If it becomes easy enough for me, I'll try and do some others while I'm at it. | 07:54 |
| @rizen | ok fair enough | 07:54 |
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| @rizen | howdy | 07:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeeha! http://www.nochara.org/testpage | 07:58 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, I just have to figure out what I should put in that column on the left, plug in one of the navigation systems already built in, and then learn how to package this beast up. | 07:58 |
| PedersenMJ | Then, feedback, so I find out what I got wrong, and then learn how to package better. Hoepfully, another week, and I'll have at least one well done theme contributed, and can work on two others. | 08:00 |
| Radix-wrk | if you're doing a style template, then ideally it shouldn't dictate the columns. they should be done using the page layout template | 08:00 |
| PedersenMJ | Very good point. Okay, so I need to learn how to incorporate *that* correctly. That, though, will be for tomorrow night, I think. | 08:00 |
| Radix-wrk | usually the style template simply has the logo, css, any js and perhaps a common navigation (if it is designed for the entire site) | 08:00 |
| PedersenMJ | Definitely going to get some sort of navigation into the package for it. Try to make it optional though, so that people can use what they like. | 08:01 |
| Radix-wrk | Well.. as long as you have the <tmpl_var body.content> variable in your style then it should work | 08:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Really? Cool. Then I should probably just delete that second div, so it just gets hidden entirely. | 08:02 |
| Radix-wrk | and you'll probably find the default page layouts will work fine with your new style if you did it right | 08:02 |
| Radix-wrk | you can always tweak them later if you need to | 08:03 |
| Radix-wrk | make sure | 08:03 |
| Radix-wrk | <tmpl_var head.tags> is in the head section too btw | 08:03 |
| PedersenMJ | It seems to be correct. The hard part was getting colors on the login box. Now that I know about that, though, it seems okay. More work to do, but a decent enough start. | 08:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep, I did get that in there. Which is another update to the docs, as the page text makes it look like "<tmpl_var head tags>" is the correct thing to do. | 08:04 |
| Radix-wrk | You'll be able to write up a nice wiki article on how to convert one of those styles to a webgui style soon I'm sure. | 08:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Most likely. And believe me, I will. It's kinda nice to be able to give some back to those thathelp. | 08:06 |
| Radix-wrk | :) | 08:07 |
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| PedersenMJ | There. Removed that secondaryContent section. That means tomorrow night will be getting the menus working, and updating my bug report about the documentation. After that, packaging either over the weekend or the beginning of next weekend. | 08:20 |
| PedersenMJ | erm, beginning of next week. | 08:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Anyway, g'night all. Will chat more tomorrow. And, JT, if you do feel I've cheated you since you were helping me tonight, let me know. I'll pay for the support. | 08:24 |
| @rizen | don't worry about it | 08:25 |
| @rizen | just use your knowledge for good | 08:25 |
| @rizen | not evil | 08:25 |
| PedersenMJ | I will do so. And see if I can't use it to help build the community. | 08:26 |
| PedersenMJ | G'night. Will chat manana. | 08:26 |
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| Radix-wrk | I just added my first Wiki page - http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/how-to-make-a-google-sitemap-of-your-webgui-site | 09:22 |
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| iPhoneGuy | hey | 12:57 |
| iPhoneGuy | someone could please add total number of votes to the pie chart Poll? Results without total votes number is pretty pointless... | 12:59 |
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| pjesi | hi guys | 17:13 |
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| pjesi | DBD::mysql::st execute failed: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near ''50'' at line 2 at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 135. | 17:27 |
| pjesi | error in the Wiki | 17:27 |
| pjesi | version 7.3.3 | 17:28 |
| pjesi | sorry didnt spot the 7.3.4 release | 17:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | is plainblack okay? We didn't get a smoke-test run last night. | 18:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | anyone up for a bug discussion? | 19:00 |
| @khenn | bugs? | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | webgui has a few | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | just a few | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | take for example this one: | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/too-many-directories-in-rss-cache#7lF-_7zQS-taPqzNnEN8CQ | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | Spectre will clean up large files, but if you fill the cache with lots of small files you can blow the inode limits on the cache directory | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I think it would be good to add a file limit to the workflow activity called CleanFileCache | 19:39 |
| +perlDreamer | but I don't know if that would interfere with large sites that may generate lots of cache files. | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I guess if you deleted cache files beyond a certain age that might be safe | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | eh | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be easier to find out why the RSS pre-fetcher is leaking directories | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | if it didn't, then the problem wouldn't exist | 19:59 |
| @khenn | The asset manager really needs to have pagination | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | you working on a big site? | 20:30 |
| @khenn | I just added 1800 articles to a collaboration system and neither IE or Firefox will bring up the page with all the events | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | I think there's even an RFE for that | 20:31 |
| @khenn | ie: the asset manager does not scale | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | nope, I was thinking of manage committed versions | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we can do it in 7.4 | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, I think someone probably needs to give spectre a swift kick | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | the smoke tests weren't run yesterday | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | on plainblack.com | 20:33 |
| ckotil | yeah my commited version list is a mile long | 20:33 |
| ckotil | itd be nice to group them in a sensible way | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | by time? | 20:34 |
| ckotil | month works for me | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | we'd have to write a new pagination method for that | 20:34 |
| @khenn | so spectre doesn't really like the 1800+ requests I sent it | 20:35 |
| @khenn | it's taking some time to run through everything | 20:35 |
| @khenn | 2hrs and counting | 20:35 |
| +perlDreamer | you redefine stress testing | 20:47 |
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| +perlDreamer | well, I think I found where the RSS cache is leaking | 21:15 |
| @rizen | the rss cache is leaking? | 21:15 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/too-many-directories-in-rss-cache#7lF-_7zQS-taPqzNnEN8CQ | 21:16 |
| @rizen | perhaps we shouldn't use the fs cache for rss | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm guessing that it is making lots of small files and then hitting inode limits before hitting size limits | 21:17 |
| * crythias perks up? RSS? inode? | 21:18 | |
| +perlDreamer | it's using whatever the user tells it to | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | File or db or memcache | 21:18 |
| @rizen | i'm saying maybe we should just cache it directly into the SyndicatedContent table | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | would that allow the cache to be shared across multiple Assets? | 21:20 |
| ckotil | anyone know what could be causing this error when i upload a gif via file pile asset? | 21:20 |
| ckotil | /usr/sbin/httpd: symbol lookup error: /usr/local/lib/ImageMagick-6.2.8/modules-Q16/coders/gif.so: undefined symbol: ConstantString | 21:20 |
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| iPhoneGuy | hi | 21:23 |
| ckotil | uploads go through. but after the file pile im left at a blank white screen. luckily this is on my dev box and not the production one. | 21:23 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer: no | 21:23 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer: but that's ok | 21:23 |
| iPhoneGuy | what do you think about adding the total number of votes to the pie chart Poll? | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | iPhoneGuy: that would make a good RFE | 21:24 |
| iPhoneGuy | without it a Poll is pretty pointless | 21:24 |
| @rizen | that's already an rfe | 21:24 |
| iPhoneGuy | there is already? | 21:24 |
| @rizen | yes..someone submitted it a while ago | 21:24 |
| @rizen | i don't know where it is in the list though | 21:24 |
| @rizen | probably in the middle some place | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/pie-chart-statistics#eURNuJULPELMeyNGVbhaEQ | 21:25 |
| @rizen | are you a cisco iphone or an apple iphone? | 21:25 |
| iPhoneGuy | well RFEs can be well forgotten... Don't you think it's a simple yet pretty urgent thing to add? | 21:25 |
| +crythias | CSS Grid Builder... http://blog.davglass.com/files/yui/grids/ | 21:25 |
| iPhoneGuy | heh Apple of course... Cisco got just the name... Their product sucks | 21:25 |
| @rizen | it's neither simple or urgent | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | the RFE has 0 karma | 21:26 |
| iPhoneGuy | so you think Poll results without total number of votes make sense? I think it doesnt | 21:26 |
| @rizen | depends upon your needs | 21:26 |
| @rizen | for our needs it's fine | 21:26 |
| +crythias | Got an image? you can get colors to match http://blog.davglass.com/files/yui/grids/ | 21:26 |
| @rizen | all i care about is the percentage of votes | 21:26 |
| @rizen | not the number | 21:26 |
| @rizen | i'm not saying it wouldn't be useful | 21:27 |
| @rizen | but there's a lot of stuff that would be useful | 21:27 |
| +crythias | oops | 21:27 |
| @rizen | everything on the RFE list for that mater | 21:27 |
| +crythias | http://www.degraeve.com/color-palette/index.php?q=http://www.degraeve.com/images/beach.jpg,304035396DA36B9FA3A3BBBE758C74,000C000069DC65D3DBDBFFFF7AAB78,1 | 21:27 |
| @rizen | and then some | 21:27 |
| iPhoneGuy | You can get the percentage by the chart itself... Not the total number. Not showing the total number of votes means the Poll is just senseless in a statistical perspective | 21:27 |
| @rizen | oh...if fyou just want the total number | 21:27 |
| @rizen | then you can already do that | 21:27 |
| @rizen | you just have to add it to your template | 21:27 |
| +crythias | Having an online poll is generally senseless in any statistically important way. | 21:28 |
| iPhoneGuy | As of now, it's possible using the default chart. Not using 3D charts | 21:28 |
| @rizen | crythias: i couldn't agree more | 21:28 |
| @rizen | no...you can do it with the 3d chart too | 21:28 |
| iPhoneGuy | crythias: not really | 21:28 |
| @rizen | cuz all the variables that are availabe in teh html chart | 21:28 |
| @rizen | are available in the template for the 3d chart as well | 21:29 |
| iPhoneGuy | Oh good then I can do that myself :) | 21:29 |
| @rizen | it's the same template | 21:29 |
| @rizen | they're just seperated by an "if" | 21:29 |
| iPhoneGuy | But this makes the whole thing even more amazing... Why there is for html and not for 3D? | 21:29 |
| +crythias | iPhoneGuy: if you think so, then I say let's use online voting for President, now. Vote early, vote often. | 21:29 |
| @rizen | iphoneguy: stop arguing | 21:30 |
| iPhoneGuy | hah it's just a funny quote or what | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | iPhoneGuy: It's just how the template is written. The capabilities are still there. | 21:30 |
| iPhoneGuy | Ok fine | 21:30 |
| @rizen | put your arguements in the rfe | 21:30 |
| @rizen | i'm not an rfe list | 21:30 |
| @rizen | and neither is irc | 21:31 |
| iPhoneGuy | what's this for then? | 21:31 |
| @rizen | chatting | 21:31 |
| iPhoneGuy | about WebGUI... So I think WebGUI RFE are just on topic | 21:32 |
| @rizen | right | 21:32 |
| iPhoneGuy | ;) | 21:32 |
| @rizen | discussing ideas is one thing | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | telling people they're wrong, senseless, stupid, etc. is another | 21:32 |
| @rizen | trying to convince me of something after i've already told you that it's an rfe is another | 21:32 |
| iPhoneGuy | It's just my opinion guys... Why you get worried for that | 21:32 |
| @rizen | i'm not worried about your opinion | 21:33 |
| @rizen | you should have your opinion | 21:33 |
| iPhoneGuy | So what's the problem | 21:33 |
| +crythias | 'cause we won't argue with the dev for stuff that's not high priority. | 21:33 |
| @rizen | you just shouldn't try to force your opinion on others | 21:33 |
| iPhoneGuy | you seem to want start a flame or something | 21:33 |
| iPhoneGuy | just keep it cool | 21:33 |
| @rizen | i don't want to start a flame | 21:33 |
| @rizen | let me try to explain it to you another way | 21:34 |
| iPhoneGuy | nor I want to force opinions to others | 21:34 |
| @rizen | what i'm trying to say is that you seem to think that this should be higher priority than evertying else just cuz you want it | 21:34 |
| @rizen | and everyone thinks that about the things that they want | 21:34 |
| @rizen | this is why we have an rfe list | 21:34 |
| @rizen | with karma | 21:34 |
| @rizen | so people can put their karma wheir their mouth is | 21:35 |
| iPhoneGuy | not really... I said for me it's senseless. For you it's not? Ok no problem, keep going. No need to argue more | 21:35 |
| +crythias | Radix__ | 21:35 |
| +crythias | http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/ability-to-resend-user-activation-emails | 21:35 |
| +crythias | Jesse. I was thinking about the same thing re: reset password. | 21:36 |
| iPhoneGuy | I agree with RFE... But that works when the list is not that big. Now that there are lots of entries, I doubt people spend a lot of time browsing and reviewing all of it | 21:36 |
| * crythias thinks reset password shouldn't be automatic, or at least not until clicking a link in an email. | 21:36 | |
| +perlDreamer | That's why you should prime it with your own karma to get it near the top of the list | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | or, if the RFE is approved, just code it yourself and submit a patch | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/support/community-wiki/community-wiki/how-to-add-a-feature-to-webgui-core | 21:37 |
| iPhoneGuy | same thing applies... Just one person Karma isn't enough for the RFE to go on top if the list is big | 21:37 |
| +crythias | yeah... or beg for karma people to add karma to your rfe. | 21:37 |
| +crythias | well, not really. | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | or build your own karma by working the boards, submitting bugs, taking polls, etc. | 21:38 |
| +crythias | some people have gobs of karma (me) and would like to apply karma to smth. | 21:38 |
| iPhoneGuy | I mean for a newcomer | 21:38 |
| ckotil | im ready to spend my karma on some pb warez | 21:38 |
| +crythias | nothing wrong with begging for karma. | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | karma can also be bought, or you could contract with PB to get it done as well | 21:39 |
| +crythias | it's happened, though I didn't like a specific RFE. | 21:39 |
| iPhoneGuy | heh | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | or, in this case, if you'd read the online docs for the Poll template you would have found the answer yourself. | 21:39 |
| +crythias | hint: I just dropped 2000 karma on that pie chart thing. it's front page, now. | 21:40 |
| iPhoneGuy | ah yeah WebGUI docs are so good! lol | 21:40 |
| iPhoneGuy | woha thanks crythias! | 21:40 |
| +crythias | and I have 6300 left to spend. | 21:40 |
| iPhoneGuy | cool | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | it's rated at 1:10 | 21:41 |
| iPhoneGuy | can I suggest you some other RFE to raise? :D | 21:41 |
| +crythias | depends on what the invis difficulty rating might be | 21:41 |
| iPhoneGuy | Ah a question | 21:42 |
| iPhoneGuy | I recently saw a 6.x website and it had an advanced search box | 21:43 |
| iPhoneGuy | Why does 7 got such a basic search? | 21:43 |
| iPhoneGuy | it's a complete rewrite of the 6.x search? | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: there may be a good way to fix the caching system just by changing the default cache timeout from "1 year" to "1 month". | 21:46 |
| @rizen | the 7.x search is actually far more powerful than the 6.x search | 21:46 |
| @rizen | it just does it with less boxes | 21:46 |
| @rizen | the default cache timeout is 1 hour | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | my bad | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | All cached RSS feeds are set for 1 year | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | we could change it to 1 month | 21:47 |
| @rizen | they should be only for 1 hour as well | 21:47 |
| @rizen | rss is only good for about an hour for most sites | 21:47 |
| @rizen | and then their updated again | 21:47 |
| iPhoneGuy | Well Google search is powerful but they do have an advanced search option | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | that's an easy fix | 21:47 |
| iPhoneGuy | :) | 21:48 |
| @rizen | so make it an rfe then | 21:48 |
| @rizen | i'm not an rfe list, as i said before | 21:48 |
| iPhoneGuy | Yeah I'm browsing trough them and there's one already | 21:48 |
| iPhoneGuy | crythias you might spend some more karma? :) | 21:48 |
| +perlDreamer | should we nuke the current RSS cache during the upgrade as well? | 21:48 |
| @rizen | there are some users than have more the 30k karma | 21:48 |
| iPhoneGuy | plainblack staff I guess | 21:49 |
| @rizen | nope | 21:49 |
| @rizen | i have the most karma on the pb staff | 21:49 |
| @rizen | and it's only 8k | 21:49 |
| @rizen | phone support customers get 5k per month | 21:49 |
| @rizen | automatically | 21:49 |
| iPhoneGuy | and who then.. I don't see such big activity on the forums | 21:49 |
| iPhoneGuy | oh ok | 21:49 |
| @rizen | also, we have some contests coming up | 21:50 |
| iPhoneGuy | I didn't knew that... It's written on the website? | 21:50 |
| @rizen | starting next week i think | 21:50 |
| @rizen | you can win up to 10k karma | 21:50 |
| iPhoneGuy | cool | 21:50 |
| @rizen | in addition to other stuff | 21:50 |
| iPhoneGuy | contests like fixing bugs, adding things, etc.? | 21:50 |
| @rizen | also, each time you vote on a poll you get 100 karma | 21:50 |
| @rizen | the one that will start next week | 21:50 |
| @rizen | will be for writing howtos for something in webgui | 21:50 |
| @rizen | like "how to create a cool poll template" | 21:51 |
| iPhoneGuy | hah | 21:51 |
| @rizen | or "how to use a package" | 21:51 |
| iPhoneGuy | on the Wiki I guess | 21:51 |
| @rizen | or "how to manage users" | 21:51 |
| @rizen | yup | 21:51 |
| @rizen | each contest will be different | 21:51 |
| @rizen | some will be design related | 21:51 |
| @rizen | some programming | 21:51 |
| iPhoneGuy | I also would like to see this.. Crythias you there? :D http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/internal-communication-between-users#gAMUJeMKE4OF3ZKY3EQ7jg | 21:51 |
| +crythias | pms, you mean? | 21:52 |
| iPhoneGuy | yeah | 21:52 |
| iPhoneGuy | would be really useful for lots of people | 21:52 |
| +crythias | why? | 21:52 |
| iPhoneGuy | well any community website will find it useful | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | mine won't | 21:53 |
| +crythias | why? | 21:53 |
| iPhoneGuy | every forum script has private messages... WebGUI does not | 21:53 |
| +crythias | anyone who wants to be reached can allow contact info to be available. | 21:53 |
| iPhoneGuy | Also other CMSs | 21:53 |
| +crythias | some more enterprising people even include ALL the IM reachable ways. | 21:54 |
| iPhoneGuy | Not really... I run a website with lots of users and PhpBB private messages are used really A LOT | 21:54 |
| +crythias | speaking of which, I suppose I need to redo my user1 macro... | 21:54 |
| +crythias | yeah, but why do I want a third party to hold those messages for me? | 21:55 |
| iPhoneGuy | Third party? | 21:55 |
| +crythias | yeah, you | 21:56 |
| iPhoneGuy | That's why they should be part of webgui | 21:56 |
| +crythias | phpBB is the third party | 21:56 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat048.mxim.com] has quit [""I'll be back""] | 21:56 | |
| iPhoneGuy | heh that's your opinion. But if you look at almost every community website, you'll find that private messages are used a lot | 21:56 |
| +crythias | how would I know? | 21:56 |
| iPhoneGuy | By reading the forum | 21:57 |
| iPhoneGuy | users often say when they send PM, etc. | 21:57 |
| +crythias | 'kay. | 21:57 |
| +crythias | I'd just as easily say emailme offlist. or im me on Y!IM/AIM/MSM/ICQ | 21:57 |
| iPhoneGuy | It's not a handy way a lot of times. If you are abroad or out of your comp, you might not have email and IM | 21:58 |
| iPhoneGuy | forum PMs are just more handy | 21:58 |
| iPhoneGuy | it's better to have it integrated with your system | 22:00 |
| +crythias | better than what? | 22:00 |
| iPhoneGuy | there should be a reason why all forum scripts have that feature. And it's because it is being used by users, not because it's fancy | 22:00 |
| @rizen | actually...not all forum scripts have it | 22:01 |
| +crythias | because private communications between users is important to the stability and reuse of a bb? | 22:01 |
| iPhoneGuy | better than what you said. Something not integrated, sapareted: email, AIM/ICQ, IRC, etc. | 22:01 |
| @rizen | primarily it's phpBB that has it | 22:01 |
| @rizen | and that script is used EVERYWHERE | 22:01 |
| @rizen | so you just think that they all have it | 22:01 |
| iPhoneGuy | vBullettin, IPB, and loads more | 22:01 |
| @rizen | ok, but i can also name a lot of them that don't have it | 22:02 |
| @rizen | you're arguing again | 22:02 |
| @rizen | rather than just putting your argument on the rfe list | 22:02 |
| iPhoneGuy | the one that don't have it are just not being used | 22:02 |
| iPhoneGuy | I am speaking about the ones widely used by websites | 22:02 |
| +crythias | If someone wants to pm me, they know how to do it. If it's too inconvenient for them, they don't have to contact me. | 22:03 |
| @rizen | your suposition is that the reason they're not being used is that they don't have private messaging | 22:03 |
| +crythias | and all is nice and peaceful in my world. | 22:03 |
| iPhoneGuy | eheh it's one of the reasons of course | 22:03 |
| iPhoneGuy | your world :) fine | 22:03 |
| iPhoneGuy | But the Web world is full of PMs eheh | 22:04 |
| +crythias | dude, get over it. try a different flame pot. | 22:04 |
| iPhoneGuy | flame? You're doing the whole thing, I'm just supporting facts | 22:05 |
| * crythias puts a workflow that generates a private cs for every user who registers. | 22:05 | |
| iPhoneGuy | too bad for you if you don't want to listen to suggestions | 22:05 |
| iPhoneGuy | that's nice :) | 22:05 |
| iPhoneGuy | should be pretty resource intensive | 22:05 |
| +crythias | why? | 22:06 |
| iPhoneGuy | if you have lots of new users every day... | 22:07 |
| iPhoneGuy | and anyway that won't allow people to communicate with each other privately | 22:07 |
| +crythias | then again, if I wanted to use x, because phpBB used it, I'd um... | 22:07 |
| iPhoneGuy | you'd? | 22:08 |
| +crythias | use phpbb | 22:08 |
| iPhoneGuy | if WebGUI had a plugin for it, sure I would too | 22:08 |
| iPhoneGuy | but if you want to use WebGUI as a CMS... | 22:08 |
| +crythias | what do you need? SSO? no problem... | 22:08 |
| iPhoneGuy | SSO? | 22:09 |
| +crythias | single signon | 22:09 |
| iPhoneGuy | no problem? | 22:10 |
| +crythias | not by much. | 22:10 |
| iPhoneGuy | you still have to write something custom, it's not out of the box. Not all things support LDAP | 22:10 |
| +crythias | does phpbb support ldap? | 22:11 |
| iPhoneGuy | hence, building the PM into WebGUI would be better and useful to everyone | 22:11 |
| +crythias | but everyone uses phpbb | 22:11 |
| iPhoneGuy | rather than creating a custom solution | 22:11 |
| iPhoneGuy | everyone uses vBullettin too :) | 22:11 |
| +crythias | it's all about a custom auth module. after that, big deal. a plugin | 22:12 |
| +crythias | and a link. | 22:12 |
| iPhoneGuy | indeed how many for it? :) | 22:12 |
| +crythias | how many what for it? | 22:12 |
| iPhoneGuy | for the auth module and plugin | 22:13 |
| +crythias | auth module=plugin | 22:13 |
| iPhoneGuy | question remain | 22:13 |
| iPhoneGuy | s | 22:13 |
| +crythias | except wre doesn't have php :( | 22:13 |
| iPhoneGuy | true | 22:13 |
| +crythias | but how many what? | 22:13 |
| iPhoneGuy | money.. It's a custom thing | 22:14 |
| @rizen | $1,000,000,000,000,000 | 22:14 |
| @khenn | I've actually had several requests for a PM system in WebGUI. I think it's something we want to do, there are just more important things in the hopper | 22:14 |
| iPhoneGuy | :D | 22:14 |
| @rizen | that's my special prices just for you | 22:14 |
| @khenn | aren't you lowballing it a bit there JT? | 22:14 |
| @khenn | = | 22:14 |
| @khenn | =p | 22:14 |
| +crythias | It really depends if you're going to use an existing phpBB userbase or simply adding phpbb to WebGUI usersbase | 22:14 |
| @rizen | your right...for iPhoneGuy we need to do something extra special | 22:14 |
| @rizen | $1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 | 22:15 |
| @khenn | It's not an appropriate number unless you have to use powers | 22:15 |
| iPhoneGuy | woha your humor is really amazing :D | 22:15 |
| @khenn | $1E33 IMO | 22:15 |
| @khenn | =) | 22:15 |
| * crythias puts his pinky finger at the side of his mouth... 1 Treelian dollarz! | 22:15 | |
| iPhoneGuy | cool khenn do you have any timeframe for it? | 22:15 |
| @khenn | at that price? | 22:15 |
| @khenn | I can have it done for you tomorrow =0 | 22:16 |
| iPhoneGuy | hah no I mean when you said it's something you want to do | 22:16 |
| @khenn | oh | 22:16 |
| @rizen | i'll have it for you this afternoon for half of what khenn is charging | 22:16 |
| @khenn | I'm not sure really | 22:16 |
| iPhoneGuy | I don't think you have enough programmers to accomplish that for this afternoon :D | 22:17 |
| @rizen | we want to do almost everything on the rfe list | 22:17 |
| @rizen | actually yes i do | 22:17 |
| @khenn | I'll bet you $1E33 that we do! | 22:17 |
| @rizen | i can do it myself | 22:17 |
| iPhoneGuy | yeah but the RFE list keeps growing and will always grow so... | 22:17 |
| @rizen | it would only take about 2.5 hours to build | 22:17 |
| @rizen | and another hour to test | 22:17 |
| iPhoneGuy | really? | 22:17 |
| @rizen | at least the way i'm thinking about it | 22:17 |
| @khenn | I think in grander scales | 22:17 |
| @khenn | but to just add that, yeah | 22:18 |
| @rizen | the thing is, i don't want to do it | 22:18 |
| @khenn | I think the whole messaging thing in WebGUI needs an overhaul | 22:18 |
| @khenn | and part of that is the ability to send PMs | 22:18 |
| @rizen | you think that about everything in webgui | 22:18 |
| @rizen | and you're an idiot | 22:18 |
| iPhoneGuy | lol | 22:18 |
| @rizen | the messaging system in webgui was overhauled in 6.x | 22:19 |
| @rizen | and it was built with pm in mind | 22:19 |
| @khenn | ok overhauled was not the right word | 22:19 |
| +crythias | heh | 22:19 |
| @rizen | so that it can do it, all i need to do is finish it | 22:19 |
| +crythias | be easy to modify login.php to attach to WebGUI db | 22:19 |
| @khenn | I think it needs a new user interface | 22:19 |
| iPhoneGuy | but now you said you don't want to.. So you changed your mind? | 22:19 |
| @khenn | and yes, I do think that about everything in WebGUI =p | 22:19 |
| @rizen | i don't want to do it because iPhoneGuy wants it | 22:20 |
| +crythias | I just don't want to get these "untitled" | 22:20 |
| iPhoneGuy | hah I thought that | 22:20 |
| +crythias | messages in email | 22:20 |
| @rizen | and he keeps arguing with you and me | 22:20 |
| @rizen | so screw him | 22:20 |
| iPhoneGuy | rather an infantile attitude | 22:20 |
| iPhoneGuy | lol | 22:20 |
| +crythias | shut UP | 22:20 |
| @rizen | indeed | 22:20 |
| @rizen | i'm taking my toys and going him | 22:20 |
| @rizen | home | 22:20 |
| iPhoneGuy | anyway, hence my name, I will probably do an iPhone-ready interface for some WebGUI assets | 22:21 |
| +crythias | last thing we need now is a bunch of fanbois "but does it work with Cisco's iPhone?" | 22:21 |
| iPhoneGuy | hah yeah I guess there will be lots of Cisco's iPhone users lol | 22:22 |
| iPhoneGuy | they get lots of free advertising for that | 22:22 |
| iPhoneGuy | before last Tuesday, pretty no one heard about Cisco's iPhone :D | 22:23 |
| -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui [] | 22:25 | |
| iPhoneGuy | well guys, thanks for the warm welcome anyway lol | 22:25 |
| iPhoneGuy | keeps newcomers like me :D | 22:25 |
| -!- iPhoneGuy [n=iPhoneGu@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has quit ["Quitting!"] | 22:29 | |
| @rizen | do you think that was just maxscience under a new name? | 22:41 |
| @khenn | who knows | 22:43 |
| @khenn | didn't seem like him | 22:43 |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui | 23:13 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ | 23:13 | |
| -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit ["leaving"] | 23:48 | |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 23:58 | |
| PedersenMJ | Buenas tardes! | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Fri Jan 12 2007 | ||
| +MrHairgrease | oi! | 00:00 |
| @rizen | you missed it | 00:00 |
| PedersenMJ | What did I miss? | 00:01 |
| @rizen | we had a noob here today that was almost as bad as maxscience | 00:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh. Still noob myself. Hopefully, only mildly annoying, though. | 00:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Dunno maxscience, though. And now am very curious what happened. | 00:01 |
| @rizen | he couldn't understand why i wouldn't immediately move his rfe to the top of my todo list | 00:01 |
| @rizen | just cuz he thought it was important | 00:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Lemme guess: His rfe, therefore should be first, and you should do it for free, right? | 00:02 |
| @rizen | maxscience is one of those guys that joins a community | 00:02 |
| @rizen | wants the world for nothing | 00:02 |
| @rizen | and isn't willing to contribute anything himself | 00:02 |
| @rizen | except his complaints | 00:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | rizen: do you have a chat log? | 00:02 |
| @rizen | i'm sure someone is logging it | 00:02 |
| @rizen | i have it on my screen right now, but | 00:02 |
| @rizen | well i guess i could paste it into nopaste | 00:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | or email it | 00:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | i don't care | 00:03 |
| PedersenMJ | If anybody prefers email, mine is m.pedersen@icelus.org | 00:03 |
| @rizen | http://rafb.net/p/ieTKlT97.html | 00:04 |
| @rizen | i guess i don't have the complete conversation | 00:04 |
| @rizen | cuz it's off my buffer | 00:04 |
| @rizen | i only have the last half of it | 00:04 |
| @rizen | where he started arguing with crythias | 00:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | too bad | 00:04 |
| @rizen | but it's in that nopaste url | 00:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | iPhoneguy | 00:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | well i guess he must be hip =) | 00:05 |
| @rizen | so hip he acquired his username yesterday | 00:05 |
| @rizen | =) | 00:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | he must be one of those pesky slahdot readers | 00:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 00:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | how did I know that? | 00:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | and why... | 00:07 |
| @rizen | he felt we didn't give him a warm welcome | 00:08 |
| * PedersenMJ is only about halfway through the log, and just shakes his head. This guy is a trip. | 00:08 | |
| @rizen | the thing that really gets me is that crythias tried to appease him by donating 2000 karma to his rfe | 00:08 |
| @rizen | which brought it all the way to the front page | 00:08 |
| @rizen | from the last page | 00:08 |
| @rizen | and he then proceeded to argue with crythias | 00:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm saving some for later | 00:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm making a report of some embedded thingy I made for a project | 00:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | been doing that all day | 00:09 |
| @rizen | i've been doing support all day | 00:09 |
| @rizen | we had something like 40 support requests today | 00:09 |
| @rizen | which is a lot | 00:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | must be as much fun i guess | 00:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | ouch | 00:10 |
| @rizen | yours is more fun | 00:10 |
| @rizen | at least for me | 00:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | maybe | 00:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | heh | 00:10 |
| @rizen | cuz at least you don't have to deal with people | 00:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | ditto on my side | 00:10 |
| @rizen | i'm bad a tthe whole people dealing thing | 00:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | i know | 00:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | you told me many times | 00:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Wow.... He's complaining about the "warm welcome". I dunno, I think it's been a lot of fun in here, and I just started two/three days ago. | 00:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | Complaining makes the world go round | 00:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | noting new | 00:17 |
| PedersenMJ | I've dealt with his type before. He's worth reading the log, just to be able to shake your head in sympathy, and that's about *all* he's worth. | 00:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'm saving it for later this night | 00:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | but I'm curious | 00:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Nah, he ain't worth a save :) | 00:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 00:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | I didn't save it | 00:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | I just keep my browser window open | 00:20 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat048.mxim.com] has joined #webgui | 00:35 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ | 00:35 | |
| +perlDreamer | check this out | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | I actually had work to do today | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | It took 40 minutes | 00:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | man | 00:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | you must be tired =) | 00:35 |
| @rizen | yeah, you better rest up | 00:36 |
| +perlDreamer | exhausted | 00:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | working... | 00:36 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, I'll relax by doing some WebGUI hacking | 00:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | you must be in the twilight zone | 00:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm salaried | 00:36 |
| +perlDreamer | they pay me the same one way or the other | 00:36 |
| +perlDreamer | how about if we talk about nesting macro bugs for a little bit? | 00:37 |
| @rizen | who is we | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | you and me :) | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | and anyone else | 00:38 |
| * MrHairgrease ducks | 00:39 | |
| +perlDreamer | based on user input (like the company name in Tavis's bug) or type of output returned (Klaus's bug) Macros won't nest | 00:39 |
| +perlDreamer | I used to think that a better parser would fix it | 00:39 |
| +perlDreamer | but I don't think that anymore | 00:39 |
| +perlDreamer | so we either need to live with the fact that not all macros will parse, or find a safe way to nest them. | 00:40 |
| @rizen | macros won't nest if they have quotes in them | 00:40 |
| @rizen | that's the jist of this right? | 00:40 |
| @rizen | if the output contains quote | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | commas are a problem, too | 00:40 |
| @rizen | ok | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | but yeah, there are "illegal" characters | 00:40 |
| @rizen | i'm fine with it just the way it is | 00:41 |
| @rizen | but assuming that you actually want to find a solution for this | 00:41 |
| @rizen | we can brainstorm | 00:41 |
| PedersenMJ | Simple fix? Why not have the macro output the html entity (") and the one for comma? | 00:41 |
| @rizen | cuz i can't | 00:41 |
| @rizen | in most cases you actually want the real character | 00:41 |
| @rizen | for example | 00:42 |
| @rizen | if it's outputing a link | 00:42 |
| @rizen | <a href="url">Link</a> | 00:42 |
| @rizen | won't work | 00:42 |
| PedersenMJ | See, like I said, simple fix. And the simplistic fix is the borked one, of course :) | 00:42 |
| @rizen | i have 2 possible solutions | 00:43 |
| @rizen | and you may have others | 00:43 |
| @rizen | well i should say, i have an unlimited number of solutions based upon the same ideas | 00:43 |
| +perlDreamer | the only thing I can thing of is pretty extreme | 00:43 |
| +perlDreamer | what have you got? | 00:43 |
| @rizen | ^Macro(); outputs normal | 00:44 |
| @rizen | but #Macro(); escapes it's output | 00:44 |
| @rizen | or ^Macro("escape", other params); escapes outpute | 00:44 |
| @rizen | or ^Macro[params]; escapes output | 00:45 |
| +perlDreamer | actually, that's close to my idea | 00:45 |
| +perlDreamer | using a better internal separator | 00:45 |
| +perlDreamer | ^Macro([arg1][arg2][arg3]); | 00:45 |
| @rizen | yeah, but mine is backward compatible | 00:45 |
| @rizen | and yours isn't | 00:45 |
| @rizen | i'm adding new options | 00:46 |
| @rizen | you're replacing something existing | 00:46 |
| +perlDreamer | it could be done in addition to the current setup | 00:46 |
| +perlDreamer | escaping and non-escaping | 00:46 |
| +perlDreamer | with the non-escaping being deprecated | 00:47 |
| @rizen | i must be missing something...could you print out what yours would do | 00:47 |
| @rizen | full example | 00:47 |
| +perlDreamer | ^Macro("one","two") is our current macro function | 00:47 |
| +perlDreamer | it may nest, it may not | 00:47 |
| @rizen | yes | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | ^Macro([one],[two]) is our new macro function which is guaranteed to work | 00:48 |
| @rizen | k | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | Macro.pm will have to autodetect which one it is handling and do the right thing to parse | 00:48 |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAFKGrease | 00:48 | |
| @rizen | i disagree, but continue | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | with safe delimiters, the parsing of nested content will always work | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | what's the disagree part? | 00:49 |
| @rizen | i don't see how your way helps anything | 00:49 |
| @rizen | it just replaces one problem with another | 00:49 |
| @rizen | what if the content contains [ ] | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | the delimiter is actually the sequence ],[ | 00:49 |
| @rizen | ok | 00:50 |
| @rizen | i'll grant you that it's unlikely that ],[ will be in content | 00:50 |
| @rizen | but it might be | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 00:50 |
| @rizen | if we're doing ANYTHING | 00:50 |
| @rizen | we're going to fix EVERYTHING | 00:50 |
| @rizen | therefore | 00:50 |
| @rizen | no matter what we do | 00:50 |
| @rizen | we need to do escaping | 00:50 |
| @rizen | therefore, why change what the user already expects to be able to do | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 00:51 |
| @rizen | i mean...we can do your way if you're really set on it | 00:51 |
| @rizen | but we still have to do escaping | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I agree | 00:51 |
| @rizen | and now all the sudden we have to teach the users that they should be using this new format | 00:52 |
| @rizen | where with my way | 00:52 |
| @preaction-m | if a macro is an argument to a macro, encase the output in "" and escape. does Macro.pm know when a sub-macro is being called? | 00:52 |
| @rizen | we only teach them something | 00:52 |
| @rizen | when escaping is a problem | 00:52 |
| +perlDreamer | is it safe to always escape, and then unescape just before exiting Macro::process? | 00:52 |
| @rizen | yes/no, no | 00:52 |
| +perlDreamer | ? | 00:53 |
| @rizen | the answer to your first question is yes and no | 00:53 |
| @rizen | and your second is no | 00:53 |
| @rizen | the amount of content coming out of the macro could be huge | 00:53 |
| @rizen | therefore always escaping | 00:53 |
| @rizen | and unescaping | 00:53 |
| @rizen | could be a performance problem | 00:53 |
| @rizen | think of the AdminBar macro for example | 00:53 |
| +perlDreamer | oh yeah | 00:53 |
| @rizen | all the javascript and stuff | 00:54 |
| @rizen | that it outputs | 00:54 |
| @rizen | nasty | 00:54 |
| +perlDreamer | macros suck | 00:54 |
| @rizen | macros do suck | 00:54 |
| @rizen | but that's also why they're powerfule | 00:54 |
| @rizen | =) | 00:54 |
| +perlDreamer | you can do a lot with a low pressure region | 00:54 |
| +perlDreamer | wait a minute | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | the things that we most need to escape are the most likely to not be escapable | 00:55 |
| @rizen | ^Macro(param)/; | 00:55 |
| @rizen | means escape | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | You can never escape the LoginToggle macro | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | so it can't ever be nested | 00:56 |
| @rizen | right | 00:56 |
| @rizen | was someone trying to nest that? | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | Klaus | 00:56 |
| @rizen | for what? | 00:56 |
| @rizen | why would you ever nest it? | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm pulling up the bug now | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/nested-macro-errors#vSk3E4oF2gNZt_SM5NRzRw | 00:56 |
| @rizen | the problem is that people suck | 00:56 |
| @rizen | not macros | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | Maybe I'll go and document which macros can nest and which ones can't | 00:57 |
| @rizen | ok conversation over | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | that means that whoever is writing your CM book just got some free content | 00:57 |
| @rizen | because this is not a programming language | 00:57 |
| @rizen | it's called the GroupText macro | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | we need a table which says which ones can nest and which can't | 00:57 |
| @rizen | not the GroupHtmlBlob macro | 00:57 |
| @rizen | no we don't | 00:57 |
| @rizen | people just need to not be idiots | 00:57 |
| @rizen | if it outputs HTML | 00:57 |
| @rizen | it can't be used in nesting | 00:58 |
| @rizen | PERIOD | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | if people were not idiots, you wouldn't need to write books | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | but I agree with you | 00:58 |
| @khenn | not true | 00:58 |
| @khenn | even people who are not idiots don't read books =p | 00:59 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, people like us read source code | 00:59 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: is it okay to close the nesting bugs once I get the docs committed? | 01:02 |
| @rizen | yes...just tell them they aren't bugs | 01:02 |
| @rizen | and close them | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | done | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll do the docs next. | 01:07 |
| @rizen | i suck | 01:39 |
| @rizen | so much | 01:39 |
| @rizen | that i'm going to suck all of you down with me | 01:39 |
| @rizen | =) | 01:39 |
| +perlDreamer | welcome to the bottom | 01:39 |
| +perlDreamer | what did you do? | 01:39 |
| @rizen | just exist | 01:40 |
| @rizen | i'm going to have to work all night on support tonight | 01:40 |
| +perlDreamer | lots of login requests? | 01:41 |
| @rizen | i can't talk about it | 01:41 |
| @rizen | just bitching | 01:41 |
| +perlDreamer | $rizen->bitch("enable"); | 01:41 |
| -!- MrAFKGrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] | 01:49 | |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 02:02 | |
| @rizen | print {$chalkboard} "I will not pull my sister's hair." for (1.100); | 02:40 |
| @rizen | print {$chalkboard} "I will not pull my sister's hair." for (1..100); | 02:40 |
| +perlDreamer | that's better | 02:40 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat048.mxim.com] has quit [""""] | 02:51 | |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui | 03:02 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ | 03:02 | |
| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] | 03:12 | |
| -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui | 03:25 | |
| -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] | 04:41 | |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 05:09 | |
| PedersenMJ | So, since the MOTD I've been seeing hasn't reminded me yet, and I haven't remembered yet (and am still too lazy to hit Google), I have to ask how to register my IRC nick? | 05:10 |
| +crythias | msg nickserv help | 05:12 |
| PedersenMJ | thank you. Now, we find out how well psi works as an irc client... | 05:14 |
| PedersenMJ | /msg nickserv help | 05:14 |
| PedersenMJ | Figures. Need to use a real one. WIll do it later then :) | 05:14 |
| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui | 05:17 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ | 05:17 | |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, JT, can I change my nick to iPhoneGuy and start demanding features? :) | 05:20 |
| +crythias | /kick pedersenmj | 05:20 |
| @rizen | iphoneguy was worse to crythias than to me | 05:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, after I get these first few themes squared away, I might look into trying to package webgui into something easy to install and configure. Quite frankly, it's an absolute bear to do right now. | 05:21 |
| @rizen | so i think that you'd better watch out what you do | 05:22 |
| @rizen | have you tried the wre? | 05:22 |
| PedersenMJ | When I read chat logs, I rarely see the names. Sorry about that crythias. | 05:22 |
| @rizen | i can usually install wre + webgui in about 10 minutes | 05:22 |
| PedersenMJ | No, but only one reason I haven't: I run Debian. | 05:22 |
| @rizen | THere's a debian version of wre | 05:23 |
| PedersenMJ | Really? Has it always been there? | 05:23 |
| @rizen | snapcount maintains it | 05:23 |
| PedersenMJ | See, I'm so used to prepackaged always being "rpm or nothing" | 05:23 |
| @rizen | it's not an official distro yet | 05:23 |
| @rizen | but starting with WRE 0.8 | 05:24 |
| @rizen | debian and ubuntu will have supported wre | 05:24 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, that's cool. That might actually be enough for me, then. I might just finish these themes, and get them into an actual package. After that, drop my current install entirely, and go with wre. | 05:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Ubuntu might just be the best thing to ever happen to Debian. Enough people are making packages for it, and most of them are compatible with Debian. Of course, I might just switch to Ubuntu soon, too. | 05:26 |
| Radix-wrk | I've always been a debian person myself, but I have to say Ubuntu is very nice for a desktop machine :) | 05:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, I wasn't always a Debian person. Started off with RedHat 5.2, actually. A work friend raved on and on about Debian, so I tried it, and haven't looked back (that was at 2.1, btw). | 05:28 |
| Radix-wrk | I started with slackware 1.1 :) | 05:29 |
| Radix-wrk | or 1.2 or something.. came on heaps of floppies | 05:29 |
| Radix-wrk | and I couldn't compile my own kernel - had to get my friend to compile an optimised one for me as he had 8MB ram, twice as much as I did ;) | 05:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh yeah, I *did* install slackware first. For a fledgling ISP, actually. Not that I did a good job, but I *did* install it for them. But from CD. | 05:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Sometime later, I got my hands on a 386/sx16 w/8M of ram. Downloaded all the floppies, and installed it, just so I could say I did it. And this is the first time in about 8 years that I've said it :) | 05:31 |
| Radix-wrk | I went slackware, redhat, mandrake, debian and now debian/ubuntu really :) | 05:32 |
| @rizen | ok, informal quick poll | 05:32 |
| @rizen | show of hands, who's here? | 05:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Didn't really do much with slackware, though I used it once or twice. Went to RedHat, then Debian. Nothing else has pulled me away from Debian, yet. | 05:32 |
| Radix-wrk | crythias, one rfe that could really use some karma is http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/search-asset-returns-urls | 05:32 |
| * PedersenMJ shows his hand. | 05:32 | |
| * Radix-wrk puts up his hand. | 05:32 | |
| @rizen | crythias, are you here? | 05:33 |
| @rizen | you were | 05:33 |
| @rizen | preaction? | 05:33 |
| @rizen | hmmm | 05:33 |
| @rizen | i guess it's just us three | 05:33 |
| +crythias | hi | 05:33 |
| @rizen | ok...my poll is this | 05:33 |
| @rizen | what do you think about the idea of splitting up plainblack.com and webgui.org | 05:33 |
| @rizen | plainblack.com would be all the commercial stuff | 05:33 |
| @rizen | webgui.org woudl be the community stuff | 05:34 |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. not a bad idea actually | 05:34 |
| +crythias | can we advert on webgui.org? | 05:34 |
| @rizen | what do you mean advert? | 05:34 |
| @rizen | advertise what? | 05:35 |
| PedersenMJ | If you do it, then you need to make sure that pretty well every single page on webgui.org says "Sponsored by plainblack.com" or somesuch. | 05:35 |
| Radix-wrk | Definitely have PB advertising and links on webgui - (linking to PB's custom development services) | 05:35 |
| @rizen | crythias, is that what you meant? | 05:36 |
| @rizen | or did you mean other people advertising? | 05:36 |
| @rizen | or did you mean something else? | 05:36 |
| @rizen | and do you mean in banner form? | 05:36 |
| @rizen | or do you mean like in message board posts | 05:36 |
| +crythias | Just thinking out loud. If you separate Webgui.org from plainblack.com, it could be more available to share the wealth of all competitors for webgui hosting, etc. and pb.com could still "collect" money for advertising from other competitors. | 05:36 |
| +crythias | maybe. | 05:36 |
| +crythias | maybe banner form. | 05:37 |
| @rizen | so we could sell advertising to other webgui hosters, designers, programmers, etc? | 05:37 |
| +crythias | don't like it in message board posts UNLESS it's honest communication about providers of WebGUI services, but only in that thread. | 05:37 |
| +crythias | rizen: yes. | 05:38 |
| @rizen | i don't see why we couldn't do that | 05:38 |
| @rizen | yeah, i really don't like adverts in forums either | 05:38 |
| Radix-wrk | You could also take more advantage of some url's: wiki.webgui.org, dev.webgui.org, api.webgui.org, cvs.webgui.org | 05:38 |
| @rizen | they just distract from the "meat" of the thread | 05:38 |
| @rizen | we can already take advantage of that | 05:38 |
| @rizen | and do | 05:38 |
| Radix-wrk | Sounds good to me | 05:38 |
| Radix-wrk | afk - lunchtime | 05:39 |
| @rizen | i wish there was some way to screw around with radix while he is away | 05:44 |
| @rizen | sort of like when you're playing cards with someone | 05:45 |
| @rizen | and they get up to get a drink | 05:45 |
| @rizen | you can switch their cards | 05:45 |
| @rizen | or steal some chips | 05:45 |
| @rizen | something like that | 05:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Well... There's got to be some good irc practical jokes. | 05:45 |
| @rizen | i wish i could change his nick | 05:46 |
| @rizen | that would be cool | 05:46 |
| @rizen | like /othernick radix-wrk radix-likes-boys | 05:47 |
| @rizen | that would be cool | 05:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Gotta set up your own irc server for that, but I'm sure you could then. | 05:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, JT, I'm pondering buying some more docs. Specifically, I'd like to see more on how to build/manage/package up templates. Anything in particular you could point me to, rather than just the online WDR? | 05:49 |
| @rizen | toward the end of february | 05:50 |
| @rizen | there will be a book coming out on that | 05:50 |
| @rizen | 300+ pages | 05:51 |
| @rizen | paperback | 05:51 |
| @rizen | we have 3 of those books | 05:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Any way to preorder it? | 05:51 |
| @rizen | beyond that | 05:51 |
| @rizen | there isn't anything | 05:51 |
| @rizen | no...cuz we haven't officially announced them yet | 05:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Dang. Well, get cracking on an announcement then :) | 05:51 |
| @rizen | i want them completely written and in the editing phase before we do that | 05:52 |
| PedersenMJ | That will be my RFE for tonight: An announcement of upcoming books so that I can preorder them. | 05:52 |
| @rizen | that particular book should be completely written in the next two weeks | 05:53 |
| @rizen | the goal is January 30 | 05:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Working on understanding enough of the "navigation" section of webgui to incorporate it into the burned theme. | 05:55 |
| @rizen | you could just include a generic nav | 06:01 |
| @rizen | and then people can put in whatever they want | 06:01 |
| @rizen | cuz they probably will anyway | 06:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Wait... I can use an ^AssetProxy() to point to a navigation control, yes? | 06:01 |
| @rizen | yes | 06:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Let me look this over, I think I might have just finished the theme, except for packaging. | 06:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, not quite just finished, I've also got some CSS to work on, but it's getting there. | 06:02 |
| @rizen | good work | 06:02 |
| @rizen | not bad for your first time | 06:02 |
| @rizen | getting together in a week | 06:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, it'll have been three days, including the first day spent picking out themes. | 06:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Sweet. Just a few more minor tweaks (namely, making this into the style for my site, as opposed to just one page), and the work is all done. | 06:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Hmmm... Is there an easy way to say to all Page Layouts in a folder that they should take a specific style? | 06:20 |
| @rizen | yes | 06:21 |
| @rizen | but i'm not going to tell you | 06:21 |
| @rizen | they don't call me a jackass for nothing | 06:21 |
| @rizen | go to your home page. click on the class icon. select "edit branch". it's pretty self explainatory from there. | 06:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh man... I was actually looking to buy a per inicident support to get the answer. Is there a way to do so? Didn't find it on plainblack.com in the past two minutes. | 06:23 |
| @rizen | there is but we don't advertise it | 06:23 |
| @rizen | cuz we don't like it when people use it | 06:24 |
| @rizen | we only offer it in certain situations | 06:24 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, okay. Feels kind of weird. I feel like I'm taking advantage of you, and am trying to find ways to actually pay for that (well, that I can afford, to, as I just dropped way too much into vehicle maintenance). | 06:25 |
| @rizen | as i said | 06:25 |
| @rizen | pay me by contributing to the community | 06:25 |
| @rizen | make a bunch of these templates into pacakges that other people can use | 06:25 |
| PedersenMJ | That you'll have. | 06:25 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.nochara.org/ | 06:26 |
| PedersenMJ | That's the application of the "Burned" theme. | 06:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Default site for webgui, of course. | 06:26 |
| @rizen | looks like shit | 06:27 |
| @rizen | just kidding | 06:27 |
| @rizen | however, your login box hangs off the side | 06:27 |
| @rizen | in firefox | 06:27 |
| @rizen | don't know about ie | 06:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, it's not a very good theme for the default website, I know that. | 06:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Weird, I'm running ff myself, and it's fitting inside. Which version of FF you using? I'm still on 1.5. And on Linux. | 06:28 |
| @rizen | 2.0 on mac | 06:28 |
| PedersenMJ | I have a mac with ff 2.0 at work, I'll dig into it tomorrow. | 06:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Definitely a sucky theme for the webgui site. For my desires for that site, it'll be good, though. | 06:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, to learn how to make the package itself. | 06:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, JT? Small error (and can be submitted as bug if you wish): http://www.plainblack.com/support/clients says 1908 for WDR expiration. | 06:34 |
| @rizen | its' a;lready been submitted | 06:34 |
| @rizen | as a bug | 06:34 |
| Radix-wrk | PedersenMJ, your nochara.org site doesn't seem to display at all for me now | 06:58 |
| Radix-wrk | comes up as a white background with no style at all :) | 06:59 |
| PedersenMJ | My style is gone. | 06:59 |
| @rizen | he put in a special exclusion just for you | 06:59 |
| PedersenMJ | poof. gone. destroyed. | 06:59 |
| @rizen | if $radix then $radix->screw; | 06:59 |
| @rizen | what? | 06:59 |
| Radix-wrk | uhuh | 06:59 |
| @rizen | what do you mean destroyed? | 07:00 |
| Radix-wrk | reminds me of the windows 95 code - http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article09-119 | 07:01 |
| PedersenMJ | In the asset manager, I went to the folder above my templates, and did a "duplicate", to make sure I didn't lose anything. Didn't check to make sure that worked. Made a package out of the original. Exported package. Deleted original. Tried to import package. Failed. Duplicate has no data in it at all. Destroyed. | 07:01 |
| Radix-wrk | So go to your trash and undelete | 07:02 |
| @rizen | yeah | 07:02 |
| @rizen | it's in your trash | 07:02 |
| @rizen | also...duplicate duplicates single assets | 07:02 |
| @rizen | not entire trees | 07:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, the data might be ... Okay, how much of a moron am I about to feel like? | 07:02 |
| @rizen | admin console > trash | 07:02 |
| @rizen | click restore | 07:02 |
| @rizen | you're all good | 07:02 |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. why doesn't duplicate do whole trees? | 07:02 |
| @rizen | cuz that would be dangerous | 07:03 |
| @rizen | think about on plainblack.com for example | 07:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep, complete moron. Thank god for trash bins :) | 07:03 |
| PedersenMJ | It's back in place. | 07:03 |
| @rizen | if i clicked duplicate on the "support" tab | 07:03 |
| @rizen | there's about 500 pages | 07:03 |
| @rizen | and 70,000 board posts | 07:03 |
| Radix-wrk | So check # of items, if more than X then warn user | 07:03 |
| @rizen | so by clicking duplicate | 07:03 |
| @rizen | i just created another 70500 assets | 07:03 |
| @rizen | and i did that accidentally | 07:03 |
| @rizen | it would take a long time | 07:03 |
| @rizen | and it could use a lot of resources | 07:04 |
| @rizen | that's what packages are for | 07:04 |
| @rizen | if you want to dup an entire tree | 07:04 |
| @rizen | you create a package | 07:04 |
| @rizen | and then deploy the package | 07:04 |
| @rizen | it will recurse the tree | 07:04 |
| @rizen | trust me | 07:04 |
| @rizen | people don't read warnings | 07:05 |
| @rizen | they just click "OK" | 07:05 |
| @rizen | if people actually read warnings there wouldn't be a need for trash | 07:05 |
| * PedersenMJ raises his hand, and is guilty of that behavior. | 07:05 | |
| @rizen | it's better to make them do something explicitly | 07:06 |
| @rizen | and that's where packages come into play | 07:06 |
| Radix-wrk | fair enough | 07:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, without setting up another instance of webgui, what's the proper way to test that I managed to export that style correctly? I've got burned.wgpkg sitting in a folder here. | 07:07 |
| @rizen | demo.plainblack.com | 07:07 |
| @rizen | anytime you need an "extra" instance | 07:07 |
| @rizen | there it is | 07:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Sweet! Using it now. | 07:07 |
| Radix-wrk | I've never created a package myself actually. should play with it sometime | 07:07 |
| Radix-wrk | it doesn't harm the existing setup at all does it | 07:07 |
| @rizen | what do you mean? | 07:08 |
| @rizen | harm what? | 07:08 |
| Radix-wrk | doesn't remove anything | 07:08 |
| @rizen | no | 07:08 |
| @rizen | packages create things | 07:08 |
| @rizen | they don't remove things | 07:08 |
| Radix-wrk | just checking that's all, will try it out on our production site :) | 07:09 |
| Radix-wrk | can you package items that are still under a version tag? | 07:09 |
| @rizen | packages are just assets | 07:11 |
| Radix-wrk | So how do you create one? I can see browse/import, but no create option | 07:11 |
| @rizen | the meta tab of any asset | 07:11 |
| Radix-wrk | cool, ta | 07:12 |
| Radix-wrk | Last question - when do the demo sites get deleted? At a scheduled time or when they hit 24 hours duration? | 07:13 |
| PedersenMJ | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1168578456_170/home | 07:14 |
| PedersenMJ | Package works. Now to upload it. | 07:14 |
| @rizen | creation time + 24 hours | 07:14 |
| Radix-wrk | neat - great work | 07:15 |
| Radix-wrk | rizen, cool, good to know :) | 07:15 |
| @rizen | verty good | 07:15 |
| Radix-wrk | PedersenMJ, You just need to sort out the div on that login box | 07:15 |
| PedersenMJ | Pretty simple once I got started. Did hit *one* snag with the demo site, though, and that's that style sheet. | 07:15 |
| Radix-wrk | it's almost half way down the page and off the edge on mine | 07:15 |
| Radix-wrk | should prolly just incorporate it under the menu or something | 07:16 |
| PedersenMJ | I had an absolute url for the burned2.css, and needed to move it under the proper location for the demo site. | 07:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, I'll definitely fix that login box issue tomorrow night. Now that I know the rest of the process, it's pretty simple. | 07:16 |
| Radix-wrk | Ahh.. the admin box div is absolute it looks like | 07:16 |
| @rizen | you didn't do it right then | 07:17 |
| @rizen | you should use the ^/;burned2.css | 07:17 |
| @rizen | that way it auto adjusts | 07:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Aha! A macro I didn't yet read/learn about. Will fix *that* right now. | 07:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, I'll fix the login box issue tomorrow night, and have already fixed the url for the css. After that, it looks like I'll be able to post this one to a contrib section. | 07:19 |
| PedersenMJ | This one isn't likely to be very popular, though, as it's more of a dark/broody feeling. The others I've chosen to work on should be much better received. | 07:20 |
| @rizen | you'd be suprised | 07:20 |
| Radix-wrk | hehe | 07:20 |
| @rizen | there are lots of users out there | 07:20 |
| Radix-wrk | I was about to say the same thing | 07:20 |
| @rizen | they all have different needs | 07:20 |
| Radix-wrk | there's many dark/broody people out there who'd "love" that kind of theme I'm sure ;) | 07:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Most likely, now that you two put it that way. | 07:21 |
| PedersenMJ | So, when I *do* get this right, where do I go to do the upload? Don't see any obvious locations at plainblack.com. Or is that the wrong place? | 07:22 |
| @rizen | the contribs section on plainblack.com | 07:23 |
| PedersenMJ | Aha! It's under support. Found it. Only 4 packages in there? That's *got* to be fixed. | 07:23 |
| Radix-wrk | Ahh, neat.. someone made a package based on my google sitemap howto :) | 07:25 |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 07:25 | |
| PedersenMJ | I think that, for a while, I'm going to make myself a goal of one new package every two weeks (once I get through these 1st three anyway). | 07:26 |
| @rizen | that would be awesome | 07:26 |
| Radix-wrk | If I get some time spare I'll give you a hand :) | 07:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool. Hey, if you'll simply put up with me spamming you guys with my latest theme of the moment, that's a lot of help right there. | 07:27 |
| Radix-wrk | spam away :) | 07:27 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm really enjoying it. It's a fairly easy process to convert existing code into a webgui template, it really is. Just somewhat time consuming to tweak it. | 07:28 |
| @rizen | now we just need another 500 people like you | 07:28 |
| PedersenMJ | But even that can be fun. | 07:28 |
| @rizen | and our community will rock | 07:28 |
| Radix-wrk | yup - hence why we told you to figure it out yourself.. it's not that hard, just fiddly :) | 07:28 |
| @rizen | now you just need to tell the rest of the world how easy it is | 07:29 |
| @rizen | for some reason some people think it's hard | 07:29 |
| PedersenMJ | You did *not* tell me to figure it out myself. You two answered all of my questions quickly, and without giving me a hard time about it. | 07:29 |
| @rizen | damn it | 07:30 |
| @rizen | i meant to give you a hard time | 07:30 |
| @rizen | i tried to | 07:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, JT, I'll tell you *why* they think it's hard. 1: Creating a new template isn't well documented. It's documented in WDR, but you have to pay for that. I don't mind paying, but others do. | 07:30 |
| @rizen | yeah well | 07:31 |
| PedersenMJ | 2: What's in WDR does have some errors. I've got the list, and am going to update my bug report for it. | 07:31 |
| @rizen | we're a business | 07:31 |
| Radix-wrk | rizen told you not to pay him to do it, and instead to work it out yourself. I chimed in that it wasn't that hard, and a good experience | 07:31 |
| @rizen | 2: excellent | 07:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Like I said, I don't mind paying for it. You *are* a business. While it'd be better for my wallet if you weren't, it wouldn't be better for me overall. I'd still be trying to find the right tool for the job. | 07:32 |
| @rizen | 1: i hate that arguement....it's just people being cheap, we're not a charity | 07:32 |
| @rizen | what people don't understand is that webgui is as good as it is because we charge for stuff around webgui...that's what enables us to work on it full time | 07:32 |
| @rizen | unlike a lot of other open source gigs | 07:33 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, Radix, he *did* say he could do it for about $400, and I wanted to learn it for me. | 07:33 |
| @rizen | where the guy is working as his day job and also open source | 07:33 |
| PedersenMJ | Nah, people are inherently cheap. Some programs, that's fine. Others, though... You need somebody doing full time work. WebGUI makes an excellent case for that. And selling access to the docs? I'm *way* okay with that. I wish I could have figured it out without them, but will accept that I'm not a computing god :) | 07:35 |
| @rizen | man...if i could make webgui so intuitive that you didn't need any docs | 07:35 |
| @rizen | i'd love that | 07:35 |
| @rizen | that would be the coolest thing ever | 07:35 |
| PedersenMJ | Except it would completely suck and kill your business. | 07:36 |
| Radix-wrk | Doing custom styles isn't the kind of work that PB staff should be doing though really - if they wrote styles for people all day long they might as well be web designers. ;) | 07:36 |
| @rizen | it wouldn't kill our business at all | 07:36 |
| @rizen | it would improve our business 10 fold | 07:37 |
| @rizen | for one, we wouldn't have to spend the hundreds of hours we do writing/updating docs and videos | 07:37 |
| @rizen | for another, the money we charge on docs | 07:37 |
| @rizen | is just to cover the cost of writing them | 07:37 |
| @rizen | we don't make any money on them | 07:37 |
| @rizen | our money comes from support, hosting, and custom dev | 07:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh... Lessee, I've put about 6 hours into the style so far. I expect to only need about 1 to 2 more to fix that login box issue. And this is the first time I've ever done this. I'd expect that PB staff would need much less, like 2 to 3. $125/hour? Sounds about right for consulting. | 07:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Do you guys do actual training classes too? If I manage to make this happen at work, they might be looking to do some training, wherein they get face time with somebody from 6th Ave and somebody from PB. If so, what are ballpark estimates for training? | 07:39 |
| @rizen | yes | 07:40 |
| @rizen | $1600 per day | 07:40 |
| @rizen | which is pretty much industry standard for on-site training | 07:40 |
| PedersenMJ | That's not too bad, really. | 07:40 |
| Radix-wrk | IMHO, the biggest detractor with webgui to a new client/company is the entry requirements - both hardware/software, but also the initial getting started - getting head around templates, doing that initial layout. If that were easier it'd mean more people would get up to speed quicker and start working on the real nitty gritty, like integration with existing systems, custom wobjects, etc | 07:40 |
| @rizen | and we don't put a limit on number of students | 07:40 |
| Radix-wrk | there's the webgui primer also | 07:40 |
| @rizen | well once PedersenMJ gets done building all these styles | 07:41 |
| @rizen | people won't have to worry about that naymore? | 07:41 |
| @rizen | =)_ | 07:41 |
| Radix-wrk | rizen: that's what I was thinking too :) | 07:41 |
| @rizen | actually | 07:41 |
| Radix-wrk | So.. get to work PedersenMJ! :) | 07:41 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, in the next two weeks, there'll be 3, I think. After that, I'll slow down and do 1 every two weeks. Heck, I'll just go to www.oswd.org and pick the next one in line :) | 07:42 |
| @rizen | we're going to be sponsoring a contest in the spring | 07:42 |
| @rizen | for brand new custom styles | 07:42 |
| @rizen | as packages | 07:42 |
| Radix-wrk | neat - that'd be cool | 07:42 |
| PedersenMJ | I'd try to enter, but brand new rules me out. I can convert existing, but my graphics, colors, etc, suck. | 07:43 |
| @rizen | it wouldn't be fair if we let people who take other people's designs into the contest with people who are creating custom works | 07:43 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm not asking to be able to enter, don't worry. | 07:44 |
| @rizen | sorry...i was just explaining...not arguing | 07:44 |
| PedersenMJ | My fun is more in the conversion. I'm not a web dev, not at all. My web site design skills suck ass through a straw :) | 07:45 |
| @rizen | if you do good work though, you'll get plenty of karma | 07:45 |
| @rizen | also...you might even get a people behind webgui nomination | 07:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Nah, no rewards of that sort, please. I'm not doing it for that. I'm doing it for two reasons: | 07:45 |
| PedersenMJ | 1: I can. | 07:45 |
| @rizen | not up to me | 07:46 |
| PedersenMJ | 2: My way of saying thanks for the work you've done, and are doing, that I am directly benefiting from. | 07:46 |
| @rizen | it's up to our community manager | 07:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, just found template number 4, I think: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3587 | 07:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Anyway, I'll throw in what I can. Since this is something I can do, I will do so. And have fun, since I'll get to see a whole slew of neat new designs that I might never find otherwise :) | 07:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Anyway, time for me to head to bed. Will see you guys tomorrow. Have a good night! | 07:51 |
| @rizen | me too | 07:52 |
| @rizen | later | 07:52 |
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| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 07:52 | |
| @preaction-m | WUSSES! | 08:18 |
| Radix-wrk | yeah, they are aren't they.. pfft.. it's only 3.24pm | 08:22 |
| Radix-wrk | ;) | 08:22 |
| -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] | 09:03 | |
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| -!- preaction-m_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui | 09:44 | |
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| -!- pjesi [i=pjesi@klefi01.litlahraun.is] has joined #webgui | 11:37 | |
| pjesi | hi | 11:37 |
| pjesi | does wre hash the mysql username and passwd? | 11:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | not the username | 11:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | the password probaly | 11:52 |
| Radix__ | yeah.. password is encoded | 11:59 |
| Radix__ | md5-base64 hash | 12:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 12:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | the default mysql thinggy | 12:01 |
| pjesi | has the global/master modes on the calendar been removed? | 15:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | dunno | 15:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | i=haven't checked it out yet | 15:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | the calendar has been rwritten | 15:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | by doug i think | 15:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | he's preaction | 15:14 |
| pjesi | I know | 15:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | but I guess he's still sleeping | 15:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 15:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | anyway | 15:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | ask him | 15:15 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 16:46 | |
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| ckotil | Are there any known issues with getting ^Adminbar(); to work when using div's in your template? | 18:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | not that i know of | 18:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | but it could interfere i guess | 18:12 |
| ckotil | yah, this site does some wierd things to accomplish its layout | 18:13 |
| ckotil | and i guess its screwing with the adminbar | 18:13 |
| ckotil | i placed it immediately after the <body> tag. is there anywhere else it could go? | 18:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | everywhere in the body tag i gues | 18:18 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 18:20 | |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 18:20 | |
| ckotil | head tags ;] | 18:33 |
| ckotil | i was missing them | 18:33 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 18:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | good | 18:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | gotta go | 18:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | time for beer =) | 18:35 |
| ckotil | yes, very. later. | 18:35 |
| ckotil | hah nice. | 18:35 |
| ckotil | lunch? | 18:35 |
| ckotil | its almost noon here. | 18:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 18:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | here it 1730 | 18:35 |
| ckotil | ah lucky you | 18:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | i am | 18:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | see ya | 18:35 |
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| -!- khenn was kicked from #webgui by rizen [rizen] | 18:55 | |
| @rizen | ooh that felt good | 18:55 |
| @rizen | almost as if i have some sort of super power | 18:56 |
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| @khenn | your an idiot | 18:56 |
| @khenn | you're | 18:56 |
| @rizen | far worse than that | 18:57 |
| @rizen | you have no idea how bad and useless i am | 18:57 |
| @khenn | no I have an idea | 19:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | good morning | 19:07 |
| @rizen | no really | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | uh, bad morning? | 19:10 |
| @rizen | so far, the worst this week | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | que pasa? | 19:10 |
| @rizen | unfortunately i can't talk about it because it's all about a former employee | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | gotcha | 19:12 |
| @rizen | wahooo!!! | 20:14 |
| @rizen | the day is looking up | 20:14 |
| @rizen | the big dawg just arrived | 20:14 |
| +perlDreamer | productivity at PB comes to a screeching halt as rizen saves the world from terrorists | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and slaughters hordes of undead | 20:25 |
| @khenn | heh | 20:39 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 20:53 | |
| PedersenMJ | Guten-something-or-other. Don't speak enough German to finish it right, I'm sure. | 20:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I think it's "morgen" | 20:54 |
| PedersenMJ | For me, it would (I think) be tag, since it's afternoon here. | 20:55 |
| +perlDreamer | where are you located? | 20:55 |
| PedersenMJ | New Jersey. | 20:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Close enough to New York that, most times, we can smell it if we go outside and try. | 20:55 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm over in Portland, Oregon | 20:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Correct, close enough to NYC, not just NY. | 20:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Closer than I am to where I want to be (Alaska) | 20:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, check this out (it's not perfect yet, there's still some minor tweakage to be done): http://www.nochara.org/ My first converted theme for webgui. | 20:57 |
| +perlDreamer | it's very dark, and on old Mozilla your login box hangs over some content | 20:58 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, the dark is intentional (the site will be for a horror novel I'm writing). The login box is the tweakage issue. | 20:59 |
| +crythias | so, um... | 21:02 |
| +crythias | don't use ^L | 21:02 |
| +crythias | scrape the relevant code from view source and paste it. | 21:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Why should I not use it? I was just going to fix the css, which should be pretty simple. | 21:03 |
| +crythias | or that. | 21:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Just was late last night when I got to this point (having finished the work on the conversion, and learning how to package, etc). | 21:03 |
| ckotil | i like how the template makes me think of endless night. | 21:04 |
| ckotil | the paper reminds me of an early sunrise | 21:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Not sure if there's sarcasm in there or not, actually :) | 21:05 |
| ckotil | i was serious. way back when i thought you designed it ;] | 21:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, the theme name is "Burned". If you look at the top of the paper, you can see what looks like burn marks. | 21:05 |
| * ckotil nods | 21:06 | |
| ckotil | it all makes sense now | 21:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, I'm not a web designer. I'll admit it now: My web design skills suck ass. Through a straw. That has holes in it. | 21:06 |
| ckotil | heh | 21:06 |
| PedersenMJ | However, I've learned most of how to convert an existing design. I've got a few more to go (have found a need to do at least 3 more, maybe as much as half a dozen more), and then I'll slow down to a sane pace of converting. Even going to write something up to help people with it. | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | cool! | 21:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, the something is more like docs than actual code, but it's a start. | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, don't discount documentation | 21:08 |
| PedersenMJ | I don't. I rely on it, heavily. I can read code. I just prefer to read documentation. | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | doing docs got me a PBWG nomination, invitation to speak at a conference and it's how I started being a wG dev | 21:08 |
| ckotil | thats how i learned it. by doing it. taking an existing design and makaing it a wg template | 21:09 |
| PedersenMJ | One bit of code I'm going to have to work out, though: How to turn moinmoin wiki into webgui wiki. | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | like integrate or convert? | 21:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Convert. | 21:10 |
| ckotil | you can probably make webgui's wiki asset look and feel like moinmoin via the templating system | 21:10 |
| ckotil | moinmoin, everything ivory? | 21:10 |
| ckotil | </ali g> | 21:10 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, I wanna go the other way. I want to stop using moinmoin. | 21:10 |
| ckotil | id REALLY like to see a mediawiki template for the wikiasset | 21:10 |
| ckotil | hot damn that would that be sweet | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | The wG wiki is very similar in structure to the Collaboration System. | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | There is a "master" Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | and each entry is a WikiPage | 21:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Eh. wiki is amazingly useful. I'm still not happy with any of the UI's I've seen for them, though. | 21:11 |
| ckotil | i agree that wiki's are amazingly useful, i've liked a few of the UI's; media wiki for 1 | 21:12 |
| ckotil | wg wikiasset isnt one of them. | 21:12 |
| ckotil | but it works. | 21:12 |
| ckotil | I couldnt get my crew to use it tho | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | what would you change about it? | 21:12 |
| ckotil | http://newt.grnoc.iu.edu/webgui | 21:12 |
| ckotil | id make it like media wiki. heh | 21:12 |
| ckotil | which would be a bi0tch to do through templating. | 21:13 |
| ckotil | like the guy who made the wg template that makes the forums look like phpbb | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | that was Steve | 21:13 |
| ckotil | my hats off to steve | 21:13 |
| ckotil | i like that a lo. | 21:13 |
| ckotil | t | 21:13 |
| PedersenMJ | I haven't even liked mediawiki, normally. wikipedia is one of the best ones, and I might try to turn in that direction, eventually. But even that. This is something that I've not thought a lot about, but I can safely say that every time I've tried them, they've felt wrong in their usage. | 21:14 |
| ckotil | ah, i meant meta-wiki | 21:14 |
| ckotil | media wiki is fine too. | 21:14 |
| @khenn | There appears to be something wrong with the forms API | 21:14 |
| ckotil | meta-wiki = wikipedia | 21:14 |
| * PedersenMJ peers at the forms API without using his glasses. Eh, I just don't ken the problem. | 21:15 | |
| @khenn | if I do WebGUI::Form::text($session, { name=>"sometext", value=>$self->session->form("sometext") } ) it breaks | 21:15 |
| @khenn | however, | 21:16 |
| @khenn | if I do | 21:16 |
| @khenn | my $sometext = $self->session->form("sometext"); | 21:16 |
| @khenn | WebGUI::Form::text($session, { name=>"sometext", value=>$sometext } ); | 21:16 |
| @khenn | it works | 21:16 |
| @khenn | wonder if anyone else has seen this | 21:16 |
| ckotil | wierd. looks to be the same thing. | 21:16 |
| @khenn | sure does | 21:16 |
| @khenn | I'm 90% sure it's something I'm doing, but I can't figure it out ... | 21:18 |
| @khenn | annoying | 21:18 |
| @khenn | anyhow | 21:18 |
| ckotil | i dont know much perl. i only dabble | 21:18 |
| @khenn | actually | 21:18 |
| @khenn | what I am doing it slightly different | 21:18 |
| @khenn | in that | 21:19 |
| @khenn | I'm setting | 21:19 |
| @khenn | my $form = $session->form | 21:19 |
| @khenn | er my | 21:19 |
| @khenn | my $form = $self->session->form; | 21:19 |
| @khenn | so I'm actually doing: | 21:19 |
| @khenn | WebGUI::Form::text($session, { name=>"sometext", value=>$form->get("sometext") } ); | 21:19 |
| @khenn | I also forgot to add the get | 21:19 |
| @khenn | above | 21:20 |
| @khenn | eventually it will bug me enough to figure it out | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | it's list context vs scalar context | 21:22 |
| @rizen | $self->session->form("sometext") isn't valid | 21:23 |
| @rizen | form is an object | 21:23 |
| @rizen | you need to call a method on it | 21:23 |
| @rizen | $self->session->form->param("sometext") | 21:23 |
| @rizen | for example | 21:23 |
| ckotil | i want to ah | 21:23 |
| ckotil | err... ah. | 21:24 |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as AFK_Dreamer | 21:26 | |
| @khenn | yeah I know | 21:32 |
| @khenn | I corrected the syntax the second time | 21:32 |
| @khenn | WebGUI::Form::text($session, { name=>"sometext", value=>$form->get("sometext") } ); | 21:32 |
| @khenn | perlDreamer: not sure what you mean by "it's list context vs scalar context" | 21:33 |
| PedersenMJ | http://perl.plover.com/context.html | 21:41 |
| ckotil | http://perl.plover.com/context.html | 21:41 |
| @khenn | I see. No, that shouldn't be the problem since $form->get() returns a scalar | 21:49 |
| @khenn | or should | 21:49 |
| @khenn | but that would explain the odd behavior | 21:49 |
| @khenn | if $form->get() was returning a hash for some reason | 21:50 |
| @khenn | or a list | 21:50 |
| ckotil | Im working with a nav asset. http://pastebin.ca/314466 is my template | 21:50 |
| ckotil | its essentially veritcalmenu | 21:51 |
| ckotil | i want to make the first item, the unindented item bold | 21:51 |
| PedersenMJ | This is still beyond me to be of any assistance. I'm barely even a qualified template converter :) | 21:52 |
| ckotil | heh, friggin paste bin not parsing out my <strong></strong> in the description. | 21:53 |
| ckotil | heh | 21:53 |
| PedersenMJ | pastebin looks nice, definitely. | 21:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Hadn't used or seen them before. | 21:54 |
| ckotil | oh, its a crucial tool for getting help in a coding language | 21:54 |
| ckotil | www.postbin.com was slow so i used .ca | 21:55 |
| PedersenMJ | /me starts singing his "I hate Windows cause it sucks" song. | 22:13 |
| * PedersenMJ stops singing it. At least that problem is resolved for now. | 22:30 | |
| ckotil | thats a long song | 22:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Windows sucks an awful lot. | 22:31 |
| xdanger | any idea when will 7.3 be stable? | 22:32 |
| xdanger | rizen: ? | 22:33 |
| PedersenMJ | JT said he was hoping for it to be next week sometime last I asked (earlier this week). | 22:33 |
| xdanger | ok... just thinkin my schedule for next week... I'll wait and see if it gets stable and upgrade my 6.8 directly to 7.3.5 =) | 22:38 |
| PedersenMJ | That's all I'm waiting for. Once 7.3 goes stable, I upgrade to it. I really need/want that wiki component in there, and that's appearing in 7.3, too. | 22:39 |
| xdanger | and the new calendar =) | 22:39 |
| ckotil | wiki is in 7.2.3 too | 22:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Thought it wasn't? Or did he add it for that vrev, but not 7.2.2? | 22:50 |
| -!- AFK_Dreamer is now known as perlDreamer | 22:52 | |
| -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui | 22:52 | |
| +perlDreamer | I wouldn't hold your breath on the new calendar | 22:53 |
| +perlDreamer | it's full of bugs | 22:53 |
| +perlDreamer | although fixing those bugs is required to make 7.3 stable | 22:53 |
| +perlDreamer | so we'll see | 22:54 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil, on the boards are you grnoc? | 22:55 |
| +perlDreamer | if so, I might be able to help with your templating problem | 22:56 |
| * diakopter hears a pin drop | 22:58 | |
| ckotil | yes. | 22:58 |
| ckotil | thats me | 22:58 |
| +perlDreamer | do you want the top level or just first item to be bold? | 22:59 |
| ckotil | the first items, those that do not get indented | 22:59 |
| ckotil | i guess thats top level | 22:59 |
| +perlDreamer | try the page.depthIs1 variable | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | inside the page loop | 23:00 |
| ckotil | k | 23:00 |
| ckotil | i dont understand how <tmpl_var page.depthIs1> works | 23:05 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a conditional variable, use it inside of an tmpl_if to set up your conditional styling | 23:06 |
| ckotil | i tried to use it with <tmpl_if page.depthIs1> <strong> </tmpl_if> but it crashed it. | 23:06 |
| ckotil | does that look right to you? | 23:06 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 23:06 |
| ckotil | k ill retry | 23:06 |
| +perlDreamer | what does "crashed it" mean? | 23:06 |
| ckotil | got some funky error | 23:06 |
| ckotil | if i reproduce it ill paste it | 23:06 |
| ckotil | k it must of been a typo. this time it didnt error. BUT <strong> never gets written out | 23:08 |
| ckotil | http://pastebin.ca/314549 | 23:09 |
| @khenn | I know what causes this error: | 23:10 |
| @khenn | The URL setrpp was requested, but does not exist in your asset tree. | 23:10 |
| @khenn | somewhere, there is javascript that looks like this: | 23:10 |
| @khenn | document.form.mything = 'sometext' | 23:10 |
| @khenn | instead of: | 23:10 |
| @khenn | document.form.mything.value = 'sometext'; | 23:10 |
| @khenn | FF interprets it wierd and tries to request that thing | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil: is this site live? | 23:15 |
| ckotil | http://newt.grnoc.iu.edu/webgui/iu_noc.html | 23:16 |
| ckotil | on the left side. the nav asset is at the bottom left. the way i want it to act is at the top left | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | as far as I can tell, the code for page.isDepth1 looks okay | 23:18 |
| +perlDreamer | can you please try adding a new variable to the page_loop for debug? | 23:18 |
| ckotil | sure | 23:18 |
| +perlDreamer | <tmpl_var page.absDepth> | 23:18 |
| ckotil | ;] | 23:19 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm reloading, I'm guessing that there are no 1's in there? | 23:19 |
| ckotil | lemme commit | 23:19 |
| +perlDreamer | k | 23:19 |
| ckotil | ya, starts at 2 | 23:19 |
| +perlDreamer | then, instead of page.depthIs1, try page.relativeDepthIs1 | 23:20 |
| +perlDreamer | that will cause the bolding to slide, though | 23:20 |
| +perlDreamer | if you click down into the level 3 pages, then relatively they are level 1 now. | 23:21 |
| +perlDreamer | page.depthIs2 is probably right. | 23:21 |
| ckotil | cool. got it. i set it to relativeDepth0 | 23:22 |
| +perlDreamer | be sure to check the behavior as you click around to make sure it does what you want | 23:22 |
| +perlDreamer | JT has also posted to the board on how to make only the first item in a loop bold | 23:24 |
| ckotil | nice. | 23:25 |
| ckotil | i always overlook those page.variables | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | well, one long term project I'm working on is a template variable editor for the templates. | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | it will help with stuff like this | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | but first all the template variables have to be available as code. | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the part I'm working on now | 23:26 |
| ckotil | cool | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | that's weird | 23:30 |
| +perlDreamer | I didn't think exporting a package would log me out | 23:30 |
| +perlDreamer | stupid browser cache | 23:32 |
| ckotil | i wish there was an ez way to export all the pages as static html | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | wget | 23:54 |
| ckotil | lawl | 23:54 |
| ckotil | nice. | 23:54 |
| ckotil | that will work | 23:54 |
| ckotil | ...and then IMPORT the static pages and create the appropriate assets ;] | 23:54 |
| * ckotil creates the rfe | 23:54 | |
| ckotil | jk | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | Roy's import script from WUC 2006 | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | :) | 23:55 |
| ckotil | does it really work? | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 23:55 |
| ckotil | interesting. must the html files be exported from webgui's workflow? | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 23:55 |
| ckotil | daaaamn. | 23:55 |
| ckotil | sounds awsome | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | well, I don't think they have to | 23:56 |
| ckotil | ill check it out sometime. | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | need snap_away to perk up and tell us more about it | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | crythias: do you have the wget trick for exporting WebGUI to HTML in your FAQ? | 23:56 |
| ckotil | the site you saw me working on today. i might just export the static html and host the site without the use of webgui. bc the group im creating this for (IUNOC) is not providing me with a box to run wg. | 23:57 |
| ckotil | so i was going to piggy back it on with the GRNOC website. | 23:58 |
| ckotil | and do more mod_rewriting | 23:58 |
| ckotil | IUNOC has plenty of boxes running apache. | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | If IU is Indiana University, who is GR? | 23:58 |
| ckotil | global research | 23:58 |
| ckotil | its a group inside of IU | 23:59 |
| ckotil | that manages networks all accross the country & world | 23:59 |
| ckotil | http://globalnoc.iu.edu check us out | 23:59 |
| ckotil | thats wg baby! | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Sat Jan 13 2007 | ||
| +perlDreamer | sweet | 00:00 |
| PedersenMJ | Nice job, ckotil. | 00:08 |
| ckotil | Thanks | 00:08 |
| @rizen | ckotil webgui has built in capabilities for exporting to static html and they work pretty awesomely | 00:16 |
| @rizen | the us department of state uses it to build over 300 sites and then exports them to static html | 00:16 |
| ckotil | i know this. i tried to export the grnoc site and never could do it. | 00:17 |
| ckotil | ill atempt it again someday when the time comes. | 00:17 |
| @rizen | k | 00:18 |
| ckotil | although i like the idea of using wget | 00:18 |
| ckotil | that seems easy as sin | 00:18 |
| @rizen | wget works just fine | 00:18 |
| @rizen | the advantage of using webgui's export system | 00:18 |
| @rizen | is that you can export chunks at a time | 00:18 |
| @rizen | only when they change | 00:18 |
| @rizen | as part of your commit process | 00:18 |
| @rizen | if you have a really small site | 00:19 |
| ckotil | yah. i tried to enable that in the workflow | 00:19 |
| @rizen | that won't matter | 00:19 |
| @rizen | but on a big site, that makes a huge difference | 00:19 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer: the big dawg is pretty awesome so far | 00:20 |
| @rizen | i can run Half Life 2 at 1600 x 1050 (highest res my monitor supports) at 60 frames per second, with every bit of reflection and other details turned on | 00:21 |
| @rizen | and that's only using 25% of my cpu | 00:21 |
| ckotil | wikd | 00:21 |
| ckotil | have a good weekend. | 00:28 |
| ckotil | and no work monday!! w00t | 00:28 |
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| +perlDreamer | grr. government employee | 00:39 |
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| PedersenMJ | Good evening (for me, it's evening, anyway, 9:45). How's everybody? | 04:47 |
| Radix__ | Afternoon :) | 05:03 |
| PedersenMJ | How goes it? | 05:08 |
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| PedersenMJ | Okay, need to ask a favor of everybody: Would you check out http://www.nochara.org/ and tell me if the login box now looks right for you? | 06:42 |
| PedersenMJ | Dammit. Now it's broken in IE. This, right here, is why I'm not a web designer. I have zero patience for it. | 06:48 |
| +perlDreamer | FF on FC6, Login box looks fine | 06:51 |
| +perlDreamer | you might want to have a look at some of the default WebGUI styles for hints on cross-browser problems | 06:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep, FF on Debian. Looks great. IE on Win? A whole chunk is slid a bit to the left. | 06:51 |
| PedersenMJ | I hate Windows with a passion normally reserved for teenage boys getting blowjobs from pornstars. | 06:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I prefer the prostate examination analogy myself | 06:56 |
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| PedersenMJ | Actually, I think that a prostate exam from a proctologist with callused fingers, no gloves, and a history of contagious diseases, might be better. | 06:57 |
| +perlDreamer | cattle prod | 07:00 |
| PedersenMJ | Taser. Only, he misses, and goes a coupla inches lower. | 07:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, looks like I got that straightened out finally. I still hate Windows, but can beat it into submission (sometimes). | 07:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Weird... When I visit the contributions/packages section, the one I just uploaded is marked as approved, but no other is. Why would that be? | 07:23 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know | 07:30 |
| +perlDreamer | My contributions get marked that way, too | 07:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Weird. Oh well. I've got the first theme done (unless people tell me problems that need fixing, anyway), and will be on to my second after this weekend. Gotta deal with moving this weekend, though, so no time for wg then. | 07:35 |
| -!- Radix__ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui | 08:09 | |
| +perlDreamer | y'all keep weird hours, dude | 08:10 |
| Radix__ | Hmm? | 08:11 |
| Radix__ | it's only 3pm here | 08:11 |
| +perlDreamer | ah. | 08:11 |
| +perlDreamer | In Oregon, it's 10:10pm | 08:12 |
| Radix__ | obviously I'm not in Oregon :) | 08:12 |
| +perlDreamer | Let's see, 7 hours ahead. | 08:12 |
| +perlDreamer | Australia, Japan, Indonesia? | 08:12 |
| Radix__ | Perth, Western Australia | 08:13 |
| Radix__ | I was the aussie at the WUC last year :) | 08:14 |
| +perlDreamer | Did you attend the dev track? | 08:14 |
| Radix__ | mostly | 08:15 |
| +perlDreamer | me, too | 08:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, obnoxious question time, Radix: Here in good old USA, there were tons of stories about how the Aussies felt about Steve Irwin when he died. Quite a few of them were of the variety that the Aussies felt he was a mostly useless gloryhound type of person. So, since I now know an Aussie to ask, I'm asking: What was the real (general) feeling about him? | 08:17 |
| Radix__ | yup, I saw u there :) | 08:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I hope so, I gave one of the talks | 08:17 |
| Radix__ | Steve Irwin wasn't really an Australian celebrity - by that I mean he wasn't really very big in Australia itself, and was definitely bigger in the US. Because of that though we know who he is, most people don't care so much. | 08:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Thank you. It's nice to get an actual answer, rather than the crap that the media over here gives us. | 08:19 |
| Radix__ | that said.. I think he did well personally.. he played the "oka" aussie pretty well, and was definitely a larger than life person and loved what he did. | 08:19 |
| +perlDreamer | good night, all | 08:20 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""""] | 08:20 | |
| Radix__ | I've heard more about Bindi since he died than I ever heard about Irwin, and she's going to achieve a lot I reckon | 08:20 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, and if it matters, I knew who he was, thought he was actually kind of amazing with his ability to handle animals without getting killed, and was sad when he passed away. Aside from that, not much about him. | 08:20 |
| PedersenMJ | Strictly a cultural curiousity question from me :) | 08:21 |
| Radix__ | no worries | 08:21 |
| PedersenMJ | So, anyway, I uploaded the Burned theme into the contrib section. Looks like I fixed that little annoyance with the login box finally. | 08:22 |
| Radix__ | cool.. well done! :) | 08:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, I'm sure there's issues, but I don't know how to find them myself. So, I'll let people try it out, and learn what I can from it. | 08:23 |
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| Radix__ | You tested it out on the demo site? | 08:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Doh! Technically, no. Just on mine. Will have to test it out real quick. | 08:27 |
| Radix__ | thats really the best place to test it out :) | 08:27 |
| PedersenMJ | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1168669718_960/home | 08:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep, I'd say it looks like it works :) | 08:31 |
| Radix__ | yup, works for me | 08:31 |
| Radix__ | Good stuff | 08:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, moving this weekend, so I won't be onto my next theme until Monday or so, but that should be pretty easy, overall. I should be able to get up to 3 or 4 contributed within the next two weeks. Which I'm happy about. | 08:33 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, bedtime. nearly 2am here. | 08:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Will chat soon. Dunno if I make it back to this chan this weekend, but will try. | 08:45 |
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| iPhoneGuy | hi | 18:07 |
| iPhoneGuy | I tried to import the php-bb.wgpkg but it doesn't show up... Webgui.log says: Could not set uid/gid on "image path goes here" | 18:09 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 18:51 | |
| * PedersenMJ is now eager to see the next rev of wg released, so that I can install it :) | 18:52 | |
| iPhoneGuy | so that he can install it :) | 18:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah. I have some sites that I want to use it, and want to have the latest/greatest for it. | 18:54 |
| PedersenMJ | I just finished the theme for the first one, too. | 18:55 |
| iPhoneGuy | the burned theme :) | 18:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Yes. | 18:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Gonna be doing another three or four, it looks like, too. | 18:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Mind you, that's just right away. That's for sites where *I* need them. But I'm planning on converting more of them afterwards. Current plan is about one/week. | 18:57 |
| PedersenMJ | erm, 1/2 weeks. | 18:58 |
| PedersenMJ | 1 per 2 weeks. | 18:58 |
| iPhoneGuy | cool | 18:58 |
| iPhoneGuy | :D | 18:58 |
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| iPhoneGuy | hello anyone can help? :( | 19:54 |
| iPhoneGuy | I tried to import the php-bb.wgpkg but it doesn't show up... Webgui.log says: Could not set uid/gid on "image path goes here" | 19:54 |
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| iPhoneGuy | hello? | 20:14 |
| @rizen | sorry iPhone guy | 20:16 |
| @rizen | i don't provide support on here | 20:16 |
| @rizen | we just use this to chat about new ideas | 20:16 |
| iPhoneGuy | :( | 20:16 |
| @rizen | some people do help out with support on here though | 20:16 |
| @rizen | so maybe someone will log on and help you | 20:17 |
| iPhoneGuy | The strange thing is that I imported the same package successfully a month ago | 20:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | rizen | 20:25 |
| @rizen | MrHairGrease | 20:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | i made a item plugin that dynamically creates items as people put them in their shoppingcart | 20:25 |
| @rizen | very cool | 20:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | however in wg::commerce::shopingcart::add | 20:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | the itemId is not queried from the item plugin | 20:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | which makes this impossible | 20:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | fix is | 20:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | add | 20:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | adding one line | 20:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | won't break existing plugins | 20:27 |
| iPhoneGuy | isn't Commerce being rewritten anyway? | 20:27 |
| @rizen | not really rewritten so much as refactored | 20:27 |
| @rizen | but yeah, go ahead and add it | 20:27 |
| @rizen | feel free to commit your dynamic item in 7.4 once branched as well | 20:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://rafb.net/p/IXwBk521.html | 20:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's line 83 | 20:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | that should be added | 20:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh ok | 20:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | thanks | 20:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | hmm | 20:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | i might add it | 20:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | but we wanna test it first | 20:28 |
| @rizen | sure | 20:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's iomplemented a bit dodgy | 20:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'll send you a copy | 20:29 |
| iPhoneGuy | any chances to get the Assets view to be displayed soon in Safari? :) | 20:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | so you can check it out | 20:29 |
| @rizen | that kind of functionality is one of the things that's missing from the commerce system | 20:29 |
| @rizen | that makes me want to refactor | 20:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure | 20:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's not that it isn't perfect =) | 20:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's just too complicated | 20:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | but thanks anyway | 20:30 |
| @rizen | the whole commerce system is way too complicated | 20:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | gotta go cooking | 20:30 |
| @rizen | ok | 20:30 |
| @rizen | have fun | 20:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | hope i keep my fingers attached =) | 20:30 |
| iPhoneGuy | lol | 20:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | later | 20:30 |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrCookingGrease | 20:31 | |
| @rizen | safari: it' isn't up to us | 20:31 |
| @rizen | it requires apple to release a new version of safari | 20:31 |
| @rizen | their javascript implementation is flawwed | 20:31 |
| @rizen | it's fixed in their code repository | 20:31 |
| @rizen | and the nightly builds of web kit | 20:31 |
| @rizen | so they just need to put out a new version of safari | 20:31 |
| @rizen | and it will start working automatically | 20:31 |
| iPhoneGuy | but couldn't you use YUI to fix that in the actual version of Safari? | 20:32 |
| @rizen | are you seriously asking me to fix safari | 20:32 |
| iPhoneGuy | nope :D I mean in WebGUI | 20:32 |
| @rizen | right | 20:33 |
| @rizen | you're asking me to work around safari's faults | 20:33 |
| iPhoneGuy | if you use YUI to display the filesystem-ish Assets view | 20:33 |
| @rizen | safari is used by less than 1% of the browsing public | 20:33 |
| @rizen | i've got better things to do | 20:33 |
| iPhoneGuy | It has 4 per cent global market share | 20:33 |
| iPhoneGuy | and that is gonna improve dramatically when iPhone is released :D | 20:33 |
| @rizen | stop arguing | 20:34 |
| @rizen | god damn dude | 20:34 |
| @rizen | all you do is come on here and argue with me | 20:34 |
| @rizen | i said no | 20:34 |
| iPhoneGuy | They're facts | 20:34 |
| @rizen | once i say no | 20:34 |
| @rizen | that's it | 20:34 |
| @rizen | don | 20:34 |
| iPhoneGuy | Fine | 20:34 |
| @rizen | conversation over | 20:34 |
| iPhoneGuy | It's just because I read that on your roadmap (replacing all of the existing WebGUI JS with YUI) | 20:35 |
| iPhoneGuy | so... | 20:35 |
| iPhoneGuy | Ok it works with the latest WebKit.. Thanks for the tip | 20:39 |
| iPhoneGuy | But the rich editor is not enabled in Safari and in WebKit... TinyMce now works with the latest WebKit. Could you enable it in 7.3.5? | 20:40 |
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| iPhoneGuy | Woha that guy is really cool lol | 20:41 |
| xdanger | that guy wrote most of webgui, and runs plainblack, so... I'd say he is cool ;) | 21:33 |
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| iPhoneGuy | Then he's not cool on IRC | 22:03 |
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| PedersenMJ | Just caught up, only here for a few (dinner shortly). That iPG character is an ass. | 01:57 |
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| xdanger | yup | 02:48 |
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| * PedersenMJ wavies. | 04:18 | |
| * Radix__ surfs PedersenMJ's wavies. | 04:34 | |
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| * PedersenMJ puts together a webgui instance on his laptop. Best way to do any sort of working on a theme/etc. | 05:41 | |
| PedersenMJ | Plus, will make writing that novel of mine easier. Write up a chapter, make a package, install the package. | 05:45 |
| PedersenMJ | I wonder... I wonder if rizen and co would be upset if I made a different webgui package, one that made installing from source easier. Basically, include all the pre-reqs as dependencies, to allow easier use/install on Debian. | 06:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Looks like I'd *also* have to set up an apt repository, which wouldn't be a bad thing, really. | 06:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Finally done! | 06:59 |
| PedersenMJ | Took me an hour, but that also involved learning proper procedure to make perl packages for debian. | 06:59 |
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| PedersenMJ | g'morning | 17:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | hi | 17:16 |
| PedersenMJ | how's it going? | 17:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 17:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm migriting sites between servers | 17:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | and switching one server to the wre | 17:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 17:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | and elvis is on | 17:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | so it must be good =) | 17:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool. I think I've found the way I'm going to go. For me, the wre isn't a very good option. I've got a bunch of sites which are more diverse than just webgui. So, I'm going to make a Debian webgui package, and publish that somewhere. | 17:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | cool | 17:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | In this particular setup | 17:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, but I had to learn how to make Debian perl packages. That wasn't too much fun. Turns out it was easy, but still not something I'd like to do. | 17:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm running webgui and legacy sites at the same time | 17:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | the legacy stuff is php | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | so i use the apache/php of ubuntu server | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | but on port 82 | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | mod-proxy from the wre should do the dispatching\ | 17:20 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, I did see that, but it's not quite what I want. Simply put, I prefer the packaging of Apache/etc that is done by my distro. | 17:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 17:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | i understand | 17:24 |
| PedersenMJ | So, I'm going to try and merge the two, a bit. Get the configuration from wre, but get the packaging from upstream. | 17:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | that would rok | 17:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | rock* | 17:26 |
| PedersenMJ | And now comes the fun part: I gotta set aside enough space to make sure that vmware will have enough space for what I'm going to build :) | 17:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | heh | 17:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Best way to go about it, really: Build a basic image that does nearly nothing, and then use that as a base for testing out packaging/installs. | 17:29 |
| PedersenMJ | BTW, I highly recommend doing this. Use vmware. Heck, you can even use vmware server, which is free, as a safe development sandbox. It's one of the biggest advantages to it. | 17:40 |
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| iPhoneGuy | hi | 20:23 |
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| --- Day changed Mon Jan 15 2007 | ||
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| @snapcount | preaction-m are you around? | 01:12 |
| @snapcount | preaction_ | 01:16 |
| @snapcount | how many freaking clones do you have | 01:16 |
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| +perlDreamer | snap_eats | 03:10 |
| +perlDreamer | that's funny | 03:10 |
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| @rizen | i started building a wre on osx-intel tody | 06:19 |
| @rizen | today | 06:19 |
| @rizen | got past the openssl no-compile bug | 06:20 |
| @rizen | but now am stuck compiling mod_ssl | 06:20 |
| @rizen | i should be able to get past it...just have to do a little research | 06:20 |
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| @snapcount | how the hell man | 06:24 |
| * PedersenMJ waves hello. | 06:24 | |
| @snapcount | openssl must have fixed whatever the problem was | 06:24 |
| @rizen | nope | 06:24 |
| @rizen | i can do it with any version of openssl | 06:25 |
| @rizen | it's acutally a problem with the apple tools | 06:25 |
| @rizen | you have to modify a couple of make files to work around it | 06:25 |
| @snapcount | it scares me sometimes how you figure crap like this out | 06:26 |
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| PedersenMJ | Hey, rizen, question for you: I'm pondering making a webgui package for Debian which is *not* WRE. It's a set of config files, dependencies, and scripts that will make the installation of WebGUI under Debian into something relatively painless. And I'm wondering how pissed off it's going to make you if I do it. | 06:32 |
| @rizen | couldn't care less | 06:32 |
| @rizen | if it makes you happy, and makes it easier for debian users, great | 06:33 |
| Radix-wrk | hardest part will not be building the package, but keeping it uptodate | 06:33 |
| @rizen | the only way i'll get pissed is if you ask plain black to support it | 06:33 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool. You're right, Radix, definitely. That *will* be the hard part. But it should be a bearable part, as long as I limit myself to dealing with the latest stable release. | 06:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Wouldn't ask plain black to support it. Some users might go to you guys and ask for it, but I won't direct them there. | 06:34 |
| PedersenMJ | I'll freely admit that I'm planning on copying the config files you put into WRE. Any issues with that? | 06:35 |
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| @rizen | as long as you comply with the gpl, i don't care | 06:35 |
| @rizen | we release all of our configs and software as gpl | 06:35 |
| PedersenMJ | No problems there. I happen to agree with the gpl, and prefer it for nearly everything, so we're good there. | 06:36 |
| @rizen | i'm not a big gpl freak | 06:37 |
| @rizen | the reason i like it is that i don't want other people making money off of my hard work | 06:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Thanks. Sorry for these questions, but one thing I'm *not* interested in doing is annoying the company that makes a product I like this much. | 06:37 |
| @rizen | np | 06:37 |
| @rizen | glad you asked | 06:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Who knows, with a lotta luck, it might turn into the way you tell people who insist on using Debian to go. Probably not, I'll admit, but it'll be a little dream of mine :) | 06:39 |
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| @rizen | don't hold your breath on that one | 06:39 |
| @rizen | the WRE has every advantage except one over debian packages, rpms, or anything else for that matter | 06:39 |
| @rizen | the only advantage that the native packages have is native patches for apache, et al | 06:40 |
| @rizen | other than that the wre wins for everything | 06:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, okay. That's one of the two reasons I'm looking at doing the native packaging. | 06:40 |
| @rizen | what's the other? | 06:41 |
| PedersenMJ | The other one: I do several varied web sites, and host them under my own web server. Some of them have nothing to do with webgui, and never will. | 06:41 |
| PedersenMJ | I want them all under one Apache process, period. I don't want to set up a secondary Apache and proxy to that. | 06:42 |
| @rizen | are these static websites or php or something else? | 06:42 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, one of the biggies for me is the use of Request Tracker. | 06:42 |
| @rizen | RT is modperl and will run quite fine under the wre | 06:42 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.bestpractical.com/ | 06:43 |
| @rizen | yeah i know, i've used it many times | 06:43 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, was already almost done typing that, sorry. | 06:43 |
| @rizen | actually, rt will likely run better under wre than your native debian packages | 06:43 |
| PedersenMJ | Anyway, RT, some php sites (though I'm trying my best to avoid them, and replace them when I have them). | 06:43 |
| @rizen | mainly cuz wre is optimized for modperl | 06:44 |
| @rizen | not that you'd want to, but you can quite easily compile php under the wre...i've done it before for several clients | 06:44 |
| @rizen | then you run your php apps under the modproxy instance | 06:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Hmmm... I might have to re-evaluate. Will have to apt-get source on wre sometime, before I launch into my own native packaging. Might be wasting my time with even the thought. | 06:45 |
| @rizen | i was thinking about adding a chapter to the new admin guide on how to compile php for the wre | 06:47 |
| @rizen | but i'm not sure i want to promote that | 06:47 |
| PedersenMJ | I don't see why you would. | 06:48 |
| @rizen | the reason for it is the same thing you just hit me with | 06:48 |
| @rizen | which is, i love webgui...but i don't use the wre cuz i have some other apps | 06:48 |
| @rizen | i want to encourage the use of the wre | 06:48 |
| PedersenMJ | php has enough issues. Perl has it's own, to be sure (no language is perfect, after all), but bringing php into the mix is nearly always a disaster. | 06:48 |
| @rizen | cuz it helps make support easier | 06:48 |
| @rizen | from now on when iPhoneGuy comes on here...need you guys to run interference for me | 06:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Does pointing and laughing count as running interference? | 06:52 |
| @rizen | doesn't matter as long as i don't have to respond to him | 06:53 |
| @rizen | he puts me in a bad mood and then i'm not able to work | 06:53 |
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| @iPhoneGuy | rizen | 06:53 |
| @iPhoneGuy | he rizen | 06:53 |
| @iPhoneGuy | hey rizen... hey rizen | 06:53 |
| @rizen | whatever snapcount | 06:53 |
| @iPhoneGuy | =D | 06:53 |
| * PedersenMJ just points and laughs at snapcount/iPG. | 06:53 | |
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| @rizen | now that was funny | 06:54 |
| @snapcount | no no | 06:54 |
| * rizen rofl | 06:54 | |
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| @snapcount | that was funny | 06:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Anyway, should (hopefully) be able to get back to work on themes tomorrow. Just moved into new home today. Stiff as a board, too. | 07:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | snapcount: I got inspired by your bug and found 2 more like it. | 07:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I can't believe we're still doing session work | 07:03 |
| @rizen | radix, i enabled SLI support on the new big dawg and got the frame rate on half life 2 up to 120 | 07:04 |
| @rizen | with full rez everything | 07:04 |
| Radix-wrk | Cool | 07:05 |
| @rizen | you said you're getting a new rig soon, right? | 07:06 |
| Radix-wrk | nah, I'm pretty happy with my laptop atm | 07:06 |
| @rizen | hmmm...i thought it was you getting the new one...sorry my mistake | 07:06 |
| Radix-wrk | My laptop is a nice one for gaming - Dell XPS m1710 laptop - 2.16Ghz core duo, 512mb geforce 7800gtx, 7200rpm drive | 07:07 |
| Radix-wrk | not to mention the 1920x1200 screen | 07:07 |
| @rizen | that is pretty nice | 07:08 |
| Radix-wrk | we get laptops tax free in aust. too, so saved a bundle switching to a laptop instead of getting a desktop :) | 07:08 |
| @rizen | nice | 07:09 |
| Radix-wrk | I've been playing Rise of Legends lately.. quite fun | 07:09 |
| @rizen | i should move to oz | 07:09 |
| @rizen | i went down there for a couple weeks a few years back | 07:09 |
| @rizen | i can't wait to go back | 07:09 |
| Radix-wrk | Where'd you go? | 07:09 |
| Radix-wrk | Au is a big place ;) | 07:09 |
| @rizen | sydney and the surrounding area | 07:10 |
| Radix-wrk | okey.. yeah, sydney's not bad | 07:10 |
| Radix-wrk | Perth's the best tho - but I'm biased ;) | 07:10 |
| @rizen | i think we had this coversation at the wuc | 07:11 |
| Radix-wrk | hehe.. prolly | 07:11 |
| @rizen | ii said i was going to brisbane the next time i go back | 07:11 |
| @rizen | and you said, nah i should go to perth | 07:11 |
| @rizen | =0 | 07:11 |
| Radix-wrk | lol | 07:11 |
| Radix-wrk | Well we know I'm right | 07:11 |
| Radix-wrk | ;) | 07:11 |
| @rizen | you're probably right | 07:12 |
| @rizen | but if you're wrong, at least now i have someone to blame | 07:12 |
| Radix-wrk | heh | 07:12 |
| PedersenMJ | g'night guys. Sorry, too wiped after my move. Will chat manana. | 07:16 |
| Radix-wrk | nite PedersenMJ | 07:16 |
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| Radix-wrk | reading back: I'd definitely be interested in a step-by-step guide on how to compile php for the wre. It was mentioned at the wuc in the wre talk, but no specifics were given that I recall. | 07:18 |
| @rizen | here's how it works | 07:19 |
| @rizen | rm -Rf /path/to/php/apps | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | sudo rm -Rf /path/to/php/apps | 07:20 |
| Radix-wrk | next you're going to tell me to ftp 127.0.0.1 and download all the stuff I want | 07:21 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 07:21 |
| +perlDreamer | ftp uses plaintext passwords | 07:21 |
| +perlDreamer | try scp instead | 07:21 |
| Radix-wrk | sftp | 07:21 |
| @rizen | whoa!!!! tony just killed ralphy | 07:22 |
| Radix-wrk | ? | 07:22 |
| +perlDreamer | sopranos, the tv show? | 07:23 |
| @rizen | oh...sorry. i'm watching sopranos | 07:23 |
| @rizen | bought the first 6 seasons on dvd | 07:23 |
| Radix-wrk | heh.. enjoy then | 07:23 |
| @rizen | 07:24 | |
| @rizen | i think i should take the next week or two off and watch the sopranos | 07:24 |
| @rizen | =) | 07:24 |
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| PedersenMJ | I have discovered lovely new worlds of pain, and have found an incredibly compelling reason to pay people to move me the next time I move. | 16:16 |
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| @khenn | morning peeps | 18:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | i | 18:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | hi | 18:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | have you seen this | 18:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://getfirebug.org | 18:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | getfirebug.com | 18:37 |
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| @preaction-m | firebug rules, btw | 18:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | it seems so | 18:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | i stumbled on it a minute ago | 18:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | is there also a way of editing javascript with firebug? | 18:43 |
| @preaction-m | probably not, but you can run single commands in the context of the page | 18:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's a pity | 18:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | well | 18:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | i gues it still is cool software though | 18:44 |
| @preaction-m | it might be smart enough to know that function() { is the start of a block and wait to execute until the block is closed | 18:44 |
| @preaction-m | kind of like the Lisp interpreter | 18:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | maybe | 18:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | but i dion't think i need that | 18:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's more that i want to wdebug and fix j at the same time without having to switch apps | 18:46 |
| @preaction-m | improbable, how could it know what protocol to use to get/set the file? but then the WebDev's CSS editor lets you edit/save | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | when i'm finished i'll just copy paste | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | i use the css editor of the webdev topolbar that way | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | edit in firefox | 18:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | copy paste to some snippet when finnished | 18:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | finished* | 18:48 |
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| PedersenMJ | Hey guys. How goes? | 19:37 |
| @preaction-m | feel fine. | 19:38 |
| @preaction-m | yourselves? | 19:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Me? Miserable. Back pain bad. Best thing is to be asleep. Okay aside from that :) | 19:38 |
| @preaction-m | get a better chair? | 19:39 |
| @preaction-m | or a cute, petite, Asian girl for shiatsu massage action! | 19:39 |
| @preaction-m | no happy ending | 19:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Wasn't a chair, was the moving we did over the weekend. *WAY* over did it. | 19:39 |
| PedersenMJ | However, the shiatsu... That could be good, definitely. | 19:39 |
| @preaction-m | i dunno, they had me at cute asian girl | 19:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Asian doesn't really do much for me (I know, sacrilege to say so, but it's true). Now, make it a cute redhead with the most beautiful green eyes, and it doesn't matter what she's doing to me, as long as it's *something*. | 19:42 |
| @preaction-m | ok, fine, they had me at cute girl... :p | 19:42 |
| PedersenMJ | That works, definitely. | 19:43 |
| @preaction-m | i don't know if i can explain "I'm feeling very relaxed, I'm sorry" to a fit, toned, well-muscled guy | 19:43 |
| PedersenMJ | That's just a disturbing mental image, personally. | 19:45 |
| @preaction-m | yes, I'm not afraid to Go There | 19:47 |
| @preaction-m | also, virtualization is quite possibly the coolest thing evar, if they do not make it the worst thing evar by implementing Treacherous Computing | 19:52 |
| @preaction-m | parallels++ | 19:52 |
| @preaction-m | perlbot karma rizen | 19:52 |
| perlbot | rizen doesn't have any karma | 19:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, virtualization does look like it will be a life saver in many many ways. Related to that, I'm pondering buying a new laptop in the next 6 months to year, and am highly debating whether or not to get a Mac. I still won't get everything I'm looking for (which is the ability to have a separate dev environment for the Mac under virtualization), so am really not sure. | 19:55 |
| @preaction-m | get a macbook pro, this is the only laptop i've had that hasn't sucked | 19:55 |
| @preaction-m | and parallels owns, i've got ubuntu and winxp running virtually | 19:55 |
| @preaction-m | i've got a samba server inside my virtual ubuntu serving files to my network | 19:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep. But how do you test what you've developed on a *clean* install of OSX? | 19:56 |
| @preaction-m | parallels one? lemme see if it has an option for it | 19:58 |
| PedersenMJ | I was under the impression that you would not be able to install OSX inside of a parallels vm. | 19:59 |
| @preaction-m | parallels doesn't have an option for it :( | 20:15 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm not surprised: OSX on x86 has a TPM module. In theory, this should make it impossible to install OSX without it. And since Parallels can't implement a TPM in software that will have the same keys that the hardware does, it shouldn't work. | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I hate hardware lockout | 20:17 |
| @preaction-m | microsoft would've pitched a bitch without it, and when you control the hardware, you don't have to make software that will run anywhere | 20:18 |
| @preaction-m | so you don't have to make a driver for that weird little video card that accidentally swaps the highbit and lowbit because it's a douche, but was so cheap that everyone bought one | 20:19 |
| PedersenMJ | That's one of the reasons I don't want a Mac. The reasons that I *am* interested, though... Having all the rest of the UI (which, I admit, seems nice), having one laptop that runs all OSes I could ask. It's actually a tough choice. | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction-m: do you mean apple instead of microsoft | 20:20 |
| @khenn | 1 hour of snow shoveling is good exercise | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | yes it is | 20:21 |
| PedersenMJ | So is 6 hours of moving, khenn. I don't recommend it, though :) | 20:21 |
| @khenn | 6? | 20:21 |
| @khenn | my last move was 20ish hours | 20:21 |
| @khenn | heh | 20:21 |
| @khenn | last April | 20:21 |
| @preaction-m | no, if apple made an OS that ran on any hardware it would be a major blow to MS's market share. $150 to use Mac OS instead of buying a new computer with it? | 20:21 |
| @khenn | 2 10 hour days of packing / unpacking a U-Haul | 20:21 |
| @khenn | I odn't recommend that | 20:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, I don't either. | 20:22 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ | 20:22 | |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, who forgot to change their nick to iPhoneGuy before JT signed in? | 20:22 |
| @preaction-m | oh snap | 20:23 |
| -!- preaction-m_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui | 20:23 | |
| -!- preaction-m_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Client Quit] | 20:23 | |
| @preaction-m | somehow i don't think i thought my plan all the way through | 20:24 |
| PedersenMJ | That's okay. If I thought my plans all the way through, I'd make the "Thinker" statue look alive. | 20:24 |
| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] | 20:29 | |
| * PedersenMJ checks... Nope, I used my deodorant today. | 20:30 | |
| @khenn | heh | 20:34 |
| * preaction-m has emote power! | 20:35 | |
| @preaction-m | it's /me does something | 20:35 |
| @preaction-m | khenn->isa("IRC::Newb"); | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Unquoted string "khenn" may clash with future reserved word | 20:36 |
| @preaction-m | use khenn qw( gently notSoGently ); # happy now? | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think you can use a class method in an isa relationship | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | I was thinking $khenn | 20:39 |
| * snapcount speaks... hears trumpets sound in the distance | 20:41 | |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, but the voice sounds like a recording on five million year old tape. | 20:42 |
| @khenn | ISA is also deprecated | 20:51 |
| @khenn | use base 'IRC::News'; | 20:51 |
| * khenn slaps preaction-m | 20:51 | |
| @preaction-m | $object->isa; # Check to see if this object Is A instance of a package or the child of that package | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | you used a class method, not an object | 20:52 |
| @preaction-m | not deprecated :p | 20:52 |
| @preaction-m | yes, i did, sue me | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | No need to sue. We'll just wait for the bug reports | 20:53 |
| @preaction-m | no, sue me, please, just anything but that! | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | I hear ya, preaction* | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | enRFE-ing is much more fun than debugging | 20:56 |
| -!- iPhoneGuy [n=iPhoneGu@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui | 21:07 | |
| iPhoneGuy | hi | 21:07 |
| @preaction-m | hihi! you come buying? you can sell too! | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | howdy | 21:07 |
| @preaction-m | 1000 preaction points for whoever gets that reference | 21:08 |
| iPhoneGuy | it would be possible to enable TinyMCE in Safari/WebKit in the next version of WebGUI? | 21:08 |
| PedersenMJ | gotta be an ebay thing. | 21:08 |
| iPhoneGuy | since the latest WebKit supports it | 21:08 |
| @preaction-m | sounds like an excellent RFE | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | it does | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | several uses have asked for this | 21:08 |
| PedersenMJ | There's no such thing as impossible, iPG. Yes, that includes faster than light travel. You just have to figure out how to do it. | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be easy to get karma from them to bolster it. | 21:09 |
| @preaction-m | i'm all for anything that makes webgui more ubiqutous | 21:09 |
| @preaction-m | qui? quitous? crap | 21:09 |
| iPhoneGuy | ramping up an RFE from the bottom is no easy task.. Instead this thing shouldn't be really easy to do? Just to enable it... | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | does perlbot have a speller? | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | iPhoneGuy, all things go through the RFE list for community action | 21:10 |
| @preaction-m | perlbot 8ball Do you have a spell-check function? | 21:10 |
| perlbot | Magic 8ball says: You never know | 21:10 |
| PedersenMJ | iPhoneGuy: Everything is easy when you know how. So, go ahead and show us how easy it is to do, and submit a patch. | 21:10 |
| @preaction-m | it might be as simple as updating the tinymce that comes with webgui | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | iPhoneGuy: just read this: http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/how-to-add-a-feature-to-webgui-core | 21:11 |
| iPhoneGuy | I don't know where that thing is implemented in WebGUI. But for you developers, it should be pretty easy I guess. | 21:11 |
| @preaction-m | tinyMCE is in WebGUI/www/extras/tinymce | 21:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Did I *say* I was a developer? | 21:11 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm a developer, but know nothing about webgui except how to make a theme (and my knowledge is far from rock solid on that point). | 21:12 |
| iPhoneGuy | "you" in general | 21:12 |
| iPhoneGuy | ok lemme check if I find that out... Probably the activation triggers are in that folder? Or maybe they are in the WebGUI core? | 21:12 |
| @preaction-m | whoa. hostility-sense tingling! | 21:12 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm not being general, though, I'm being specific: You've already asserted that it's easy for a developer. Find one, hire him, and get him to make the change. Or work towards getting the RFE onto the front page. | 21:13 |
| @preaction-m | all the JS are in that folder | 21:13 |
| @preaction-m | the triggers are in the webgui core, because webgui allows you to customize how tinymce is triggered | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ: even if you hire a dev to hack for you it doesn't guarantee it getting into the core | 21:13 |
| iPhoneGuy | if you want to flame go somewhere else pedersen | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | although code does talk strongly | 21:13 |
| iPhoneGuy | ok preaction, that's what I was talking about. So my guess is true | 21:14 |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 21:14 | |
| iPhoneGuy | and do you know where specifically in the core? | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, does wG have a method to safely encode strings for javascript use? | 21:14 |
| @preaction-m | iPhoneGuy: i'm checking now | 21:14 |
| iPhoneGuy | thanks :) | 21:14 |
| PedersenMJ | You are correct. There are no guarantees about what happens and when. However, from what I've seen of plainblack, if a working patch were submitted, and shown to be thoroughly tested against the latest CVS, and it answered an open RFE from multiple users, it would likely be included (not guaranteed, but likely). | 21:14 |
| @preaction-m | perlDreamer: sounds like a macro, if there isn't one there shuould be | 21:15 |
| @preaction-m | iPhoneGuy: you'll probably want to check out WebGUI::Asset::RichEdit | 21:16 |
| @preaction-m | so, WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/RichEdit.pm | 21:17 |
| iPhoneGuy | thanks will do right now | 21:17 |
| @preaction-m | the WebGUI::Form::HTMLArea is the main way to instanciate it, but that is what uses WebGUI::Asset::RichEdit | 21:17 |
| iPhoneGuy | found it | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | line 460 | 21:18 |
| iPhoneGuy | 434 here :) | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | always work off head | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | svn co https://svn.webgui.org/svnroot/WebGUI | 21:19 |
| @preaction-m | add a "WebGUI_SVN" to the end to not wipe-out your current WebGUI | 21:19 |
| @preaction-m | svn co https://svn.webgui.org/svnroot/WebGUI WebGUI_SVN | 21:19 |
| iPhoneGuy | ok. So removing the entire line should fix the issue right? | 21:19 |
| iPhoneGuy | return '' if ($self->getValue('disableRichEditor') || $self->session->env->get("HTTP_USER_AGENT") =~ /Safari/); | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | NO | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | You have to keep the disable | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | Just remove the if clause | 21:20 |
| @preaction-m | snapcount: they've announced a Guitar Hero 1980's edition :p | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | rather, the or clause | 21:20 |
| @preaction-m | no, just remove the Safari part | 21:20 |
| @preaction-m | you want the if ($self->getValue('disableRichEditor') | 21:20 |
| PedersenMJ | Whoa! Now *that* might make me buy Guitar Hero. Not because I can play the guitar, but because I'm still stuck in the 80's == good music mindset. | 21:20 |
| iPhoneGuy | indeed thanks | 21:21 |
| iPhoneGuy | so I'd remove this || $self->session->env->get("HTTP_USER_AGENT") =~ /Safari/) | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | and then test it | 21:21 |
| @preaction-m | you'll probably need that last ) | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | on several browsers | 21:21 |
| iPhoneGuy | indeed thanks again :) | 21:21 |
| iPhoneGuy | ok testing it | 21:22 |
| iPhoneGuy | indeed it works | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | now, all you need to do is post on the RFE board, either as a new RFE or attached to an existing RFE already requesting. | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | Then go to the etc board and tell people about the fix | 21:25 |
| @preaction-m | svn diff > patch-to-enable-html-editor-in-webkit.diff | 21:25 |
| iPhoneGuy | ok | 21:25 |
| iPhoneGuy | since it's very fast to do, will it be included in 7.3.5? | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 21:26 |
| iPhoneGuy | why? :) | 21:26 |
| @preaction-m | x.x.* releases are bugfixes | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | it's very rare for RFE's to get put into sub-releases | 21:26 |
| @preaction-m | x.* releases are features | 21:26 |
| iPhoneGuy | well I wouldn't call that a "feature" lol | 21:26 |
| iPhoneGuy | rather a bug fix | 21:27 |
| @preaction-m | it's something that webgui will do that it didn't before :p | 21:27 |
| iPhoneGuy | this sentence could also be applied to bugs :D | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | A bug is an unintended function | 21:28 |
| @preaction-m | no, a bug is something it was meant to do that it doesn't do correctly | 21:28 |
| @preaction-m | from that code, you can see that webgui was specifically meant to block Safari from the html editor | 21:28 |
| iPhoneGuy | indeed but that was when Safari didn't support TinyMCE | 21:28 |
| @preaction-m | so it's not a bug, it's a feature | 21:28 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ | 21:28 | |
| iPhoneGuy | as you wish :) | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | you catch more devs with smileys than flames | 21:29 |
| iPhoneGuy | I never flamed | 21:29 |
| @preaction-m | perhaps a better RFE that would be future-compatible is to make html editors disabled by regex matching the User Agent based on configration | 21:29 |
| iPhoneGuy | indeed | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | wouldn't we have to know which ones won't ever work right todo that? | 21:30 |
| iPhoneGuy | also what I saw there was a wrong User Agent string | 21:30 |
| @preaction-m | he's saying that for things that aren't as simple as black-and-white, where both opinions are absolutely valid, it's best to agree with the people in charge | 21:30 |
| iPhoneGuy | at least not the string Safari developers recommend to use | 21:30 |
| @preaction-m | meh, it's being removed so we don't care anymore, neh? | 21:30 |
| iPhoneGuy | they recommend to use the WebKit identifier which is the correct way since several browsers are powered by it and have the same behaviour | 21:31 |
| @preaction-m | perlDreamer: it would mean that it would be configurable, so when support is added / broken, people can just edit their configurations instead of having to patch the code | 21:31 |
| iPhoneGuy | indeed we don't.. But maybe there is somewhere else | 21:31 |
| iPhoneGuy | indeed preaction I agree | 21:32 |
| iPhoneGuy | by chance anyone use WRE on a Mac here? | 21:32 |
| @preaction-m | i mean, it's a little-used feature, but it's less work for the devs | 21:32 |
| @preaction-m | i use parallels to use an ubuntu wre, so no | 21:32 |
| @preaction-m | jt's on the path to fixing the wre for intel macs, now that he has one to play with | 21:32 |
| iPhoneGuy | :D | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but it would still allow users to enable browsers that won't work | 21:32 |
| iPhoneGuy | really wow that's cool | 21:33 |
| @preaction-m | perlDreamer: then it's out of our hands, we keep the ones that don't work in the .conf.original file | 21:33 |
| iPhoneGuy | The best would be 64-bit compile of MySQL, Apache and Perl for Mac Intel | 21:33 |
| @preaction-m | i suppose i might go against JT in that, i feel that giving users all the choice is better, even if it's just enough rope to hang themselves with | 21:33 |
| iPhoneGuy | the next Mac OS X Server got those packages at 64-bit | 21:34 |
| @preaction-m | mainly because it means they're bothering me less | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | IIRC, that line of code was added to make sure that we were bothered less about trying to fix Safari. | 21:34 |
| @preaction-m | most likely | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | now we get lots of requests to add it back in. Probably a wash one way or the other? | 21:35 |
| @preaction-m | considering ff works on os x? there might even be an opera build for it? | 21:35 |
| @preaction-m | both better browsers | 21:35 |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as lunchDreamer | 21:35 | |
| iPhoneGuy | anyway maybe you can help me in upgrading the WRE? I'm stuck at 0.7.1 and when 0.7.2 came out I read the upgrade instructions but was rather disappointed :D | 21:35 |
| @preaction-m | the instructions work | 21:36 |
| iPhoneGuy | it says to drop the new folder over to the old one... But how the DB gets migrated and such, all the files, etc.? Evidently I'm missing something | 21:36 |
| @preaction-m | the db doesn't need to be migrated | 21:36 |
| iPhoneGuy | indeed | 21:37 |
| @preaction-m | the files aren't in the wre folder | 21:37 |
| @preaction-m | you're just changing a bunch of binaries | 21:37 |
| iPhoneGuy | nor is the mysql db? | 21:37 |
| @preaction-m | the dbs aren't overwritten at all, since they didn't exist in the original wre tarball | 21:37 |
| @preaction-m | why did nintendo choose opera i wonder | 21:38 |
| iPhoneGuy | hah :) | 21:38 |
| iPhoneGuy | because they're outsourcing the Wii browser. Opera does offer those kind of services | 21:39 |
| iPhoneGuy | probably that's one of the reasons | 21:39 |
| @preaction-m | they could outsource to mozilla, or a software house to port the mozilla engine, or webkit, why opera? | 21:39 |
| iPhoneGuy | well Opera is specilised in that kind of service. They've already done that with a bunch of different devices. WebKit or other engines would have meant to create a dev team, more work for Nintendo at the end | 21:41 |
| PedersenMJ | You mean, why did they choose the browser that has such a small memory footprint that it can run on mobile phones instead of the browsers that require multi-gigahertz machines with hundreds of megs of ram to keep them running? | 21:41 |
| iPhoneGuy | The Wii is not a cell-phone, so the memory footprint is maybe the last reason | 21:42 |
| @preaction-m | Wii has only 64m ram for system use | 21:42 |
| iPhoneGuy | and btw WebKit runs faster than Opera on the iPhone :D | 21:42 |
| PedersenMJ | You don't say! | 21:42 |
| PedersenMJ | Imagine that, on hardware that Apple controls, and software that Apple wrote, it all runs faster on Apple's own hardware than what a 3rd party wrote? | 21:43 |
| iPhoneGuy | preaction: to sum up, I just have to drop the new "prereqs" folder over to the old one to update WRE? | 21:43 |
| @preaction-m | no, drop the ENTIRE THING, like the docs say | 21:43 |
| iPhoneGuy | indeed, that's one of the reasons they make both hw and sw lol | 21:43 |
| PedersenMJ | Wow... Whoda thunk it. Next thing you know, you'll be telling me that water's wet! | 21:43 |
| @preaction-m | nothing bad will happen, hasn't happened to the 3000 other people who did it | 21:43 |
| iPhoneGuy | that's what you just said pedersen ;) | 21:43 |
| iPhoneGuy | ok preaction, just to be sure :) | 21:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Opera: Small, fast, lightweight, highly portable, used by many major companies for embedded browser applications. | 21:44 |
| @preaction-m | which is all you needed to say | 21:45 |
| iPhoneGuy | just because developing their own was too costly ;) Nokia chose WebKit for N60 | 21:45 |
| @preaction-m | meh, nokia's been going downhill | 21:45 |
| iPhoneGuy | because they have the resources. They started a new WebKit branch | 21:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Good point. I think I'll let that point stand, rather than continue my rant at ipg. Sorry about that. | 21:45 |
| @preaction-m | radix has played with some awesome phones | 21:46 |
| -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui | 21:46 | |
| @preaction-m | (and I was the one who asked the question about Opera) | 21:46 |
| iPhoneGuy | so I did :D | 21:46 |
| PedersenMJ | And somehow, I got diverted into ranting at him. Need to pay attention better. | 21:47 |
| iPhoneGuy | <--- that will be my next one of course lol | 21:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Or, do good drugs so I've got a better excuse next time. | 21:47 |
| @preaction-m | eh, my first reaction was "OMG WANTY", but now I'm still thinking i'll stick to the HTC TyTN | 21:47 |
| iPhoneGuy | You got a bad day pedersen? lol | 21:47 |
| iPhoneGuy | hah iPhone is just the best | 21:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes | 21:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | but does it run linux | 21:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | ? | 21:48 |
| iPhoneGuy | it runs OS X, far better | 21:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, since I threw out my back with the moving I did yesterday (to the point that walking at all is a noticeable effort), I'll say that yeah, today is not a good day. | 21:48 |
| cap10morgan | Is it kosher to override the commit method if you want your Wobject to do something funky when it's versiontag is committed? | 21:48 |
| @snapcount | absolutely | 21:48 |
| @snapcount | extend it rather | 21:48 |
| cap10morgan | snapcount: yes, extend | 21:49 |
| cap10morgan | snapcount: definitely planning to call the SUPER version too | 21:49 |
| @snapcount | look at wobjects like article | 21:49 |
| cap10morgan | snapcount: oh cool, will do | 21:49 |
| @snapcount | when there is an attachment involved, that's exactly what they do | 21:49 |
| iPhoneGuy | speaking of attachments, don't you think that when you add an attachment to a CS, the preview button should load it too rather than just the Send button? | 21:50 |
| iPhoneGuy | I mean the preview button is placed under the attachment field, it's just logical that it should load it | 21:51 |
| @preaction-m | loading it requires uploading it, requires time | 21:51 |
| iPhoneGuy | indeed | 21:51 |
| iPhoneGuy | Many users emailed me about that | 21:51 |
| @preaction-m | besides, if you have the file, you don't need to see it on the website | 21:51 |
| iPhoneGuy | I need to see it because of the way I developed the template | 21:52 |
| iPhoneGuy | in a CS, the attachment field is the cover of a book. So when users submit reviews, they see the article well formatted | 21:52 |
| @preaction-m | so i assume size is the issue? | 21:53 |
| iPhoneGuy | and that should be the case also when they hit preview | 21:53 |
| @preaction-m | put a max-height and max-width on the <img> tag, among other things you could try | 21:53 |
| @snapcount | cap10morgan: I told you wrong | 21:53 |
| @snapcount | it's addRevision, not commit | 21:53 |
| iPhoneGuy | No.. The issue is that the preview button doesn't upload the attachment. And because the attachment is part of the layout of the page, it's not a real preview. Besides, users have to reselect the file again | 21:53 |
| @snapcount | You may be able to extend commit as well, but most likely addRevision is what you want | 21:54 |
| iPhoneGuy | after they have clicked Preview I mean | 21:54 |
| cap10morgan | snapcount: ok. i need to do something different depending on whether this a new wobject or an edit of an existing one. should i count past revisions to figure that out? | 21:54 |
| @preaction-m | someone said something about enabling uploads in the TinyMCE | 21:55 |
| @preaction-m | or, instead of using a CS, give your users access to add articles to a certain part of the site | 21:55 |
| iPhoneGuy | mmh not a good thing for me as of now because the TinyMCE content just goes in the description field. Instead my attachment is part of the layout as I said. Something separate from "description" | 21:56 |
| iPhoneGuy | yeah I tried that road when I designed the website. But CS was a better way to go | 21:56 |
| @snapcount | cap10morgan: You want to commit differently based on that? | 21:56 |
| @preaction-m | uhm. the tinyMCE is used to post to CS | 21:56 |
| @snapcount | what do you want to do differently? high level | 21:56 |
| cap10morgan | snapcount: there's an external db that i need to either do an insert or an update on depending on whether it's a wobject creation or an edit | 21:57 |
| iPhoneGuy | preaction: I know. I said something different :) | 21:57 |
| cap10morgan | snapcount: the commit will happen the same w/in webgui | 21:57 |
| @snapcount | cap10morgan: you can use the getRevisionCount() method and extend commit | 21:58 |
| iPhoneGuy | TinyMCE delivers its content to the "description" field in a CS. Its body, whatever you like to call it. Now, I designed a template to include custom book covers in a pre-formatted layout. And I achieved that using the attachment field | 21:58 |
| * PedersenMJ goes to lay down again. l8r. | 21:58 | |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 21:58 | |
| iPhoneGuy | the image template var. And the image comes from the attachment field | 21:59 |
| iPhoneGuy | You know what I mean? | 22:00 |
| @preaction-m | yes, i find it to be an idea outside of the scope of a collaboration system and inside the scope of an article | 22:00 |
| cap10morgan | snapcount: ok, so i should extend commit for this instead of addRevision? | 22:00 |
| iPhoneGuy | indeed. As I said, I first tried the Article way. But it didn't work for me. It's not enough flexible | 22:01 |
| iPhoneGuy | Only the CS allowed me to do the things I wanted to do | 22:01 |
| iPhoneGuy | besides, it also offer RSS and comments built-in | 22:02 |
| iPhoneGuy | so at the end what do you think about that Preview button and attachment issue? :) | 22:04 |
| iPhoneGuy | Well gtg now see you! | 22:13 |
| -!- iPhoneGuy [n=iPhoneGu@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has quit ["Quitting!"] | 22:13 | |
| * crythias sighs as relief of a talkative person has left. | 22:31 | |
| * crythias makes up grammar as he goes along. | 22:31 | |
| -!- snapcount is now known as iPhoneGuy | 22:32 | |
| @iPhoneGuy | HAHAHA | 22:32 |
| @iPhoneGuy | I'm Back Crythias | 22:32 |
| @iPhoneGuy | and I'll get your little dog too! | 22:32 |
| -!- iPhoneGuy is now known as snapcount | 22:32 | |
| +MrHairgrease | kick him iPhoneGuy! | 22:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | ah | 22:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | tooo late | 22:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 22:32 |
| @snapcount | hehe | 22:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | just my luck... | 22:32 |
| * crythias whimpers silently, crawling into the fetal position, trying to find his "happy place." | 22:32 | |
| @snapcount | I used to have a happy place | 22:33 |
| +MrHairgrease | being... | 22:33 |
| +crythias | me, too, but now I have a TRO. | 22:33 |
| @snapcount | it was imaginary | 22:33 |
| +crythias | oops. Did I just say that in print? | 22:33 |
| @snapcount | I called it "The land of dreams and otherwise happy thoughts copyright snapcount industries 2048" | 22:34 |
| @snapcount | cap10morgan: for what you described, I think that would work fine | 22:35 |
| @snapcount | keep in mind though that wG expects that commit to happen pretty quickly | 22:35 |
| @snapcount | it does account for timeouts though | 22:36 |
| @snapcount | 999 seconds per version tag I believe | 22:36 |
| cap10morgan | snapcount: ok, it should happen pretty quickly. thanks. | 22:36 |
| @snapcount | np man | 22:37 |
| @snapcount | I love to help developers =) | 22:37 |
| +crythias | I want this feature. | 22:37 |
| +crythias | I want this feature now. | 22:37 |
| +crythias | I've been using WG for 20 minutes and this feature from phpnuke isn't in it. put it in, now! | 22:37 |
| +crythias | hrm | 22:42 |
| +crythias | 51gb on a cd-sized disk? | 22:42 |
| +crythias | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/15/tosh_touts_51gb_hddvd/ | 22:43 |
| @snapcount | lol crythias | 22:45 |
| @snapcount | preaction-m: isn't your Calendar migration in upgrade supposed to remove all of the old instance data for EventsCalendar after it has been migrated to Calendar? | 22:46 |
| @snapcount | I ask because it appears someone has managed to upgrade and somehow still have EventsCalendar instances on their site | 22:47 |
| -!- snapcount is now known as snapFoo | 22:48 | |
| @snapFoo | crap | 22:48 |
| @snapFoo | someone owns this one | 22:49 |
| -!- snapFoo is now known as snap_away | 22:49 | |
| +crythias | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/10/warner_launches_total_hd_disc/ | 22:50 |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as snapFoo | 22:51 | |
| -!- crythias is now known as snapcount | 22:51 | |
| -!- snapFoo is now known as MrHairgrease | 22:51 | |
| +MrHairgrease | it seems to work for me | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | and for crythias btw | 22:51 |
| +snapcount | maybe | 22:51 |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as crythias | 22:52 | |
| -!- snapcount is now known as crythia1 | 22:52 | |
| -!- crythias [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] | 22:52 | |
| -!- crythia1 is now known as bbrain | 22:52 | |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui | 22:52 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ | 22:52 | |
| +MrHairgrease | whoops | 22:52 |
| +bbrain | hrm | 22:53 |
| * MrHairgrease slaps crythias in the face | 22:53 | |
| +bbrain | oh? | 22:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | come back man | 22:53 |
| -!- bbrain is now known as crythias | 22:54 | |
| +MrHairgrease | don't let that other personality take iover | 22:54 |
| +crythias | stupid | 22:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | wheww | 22:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | that was a close one | 22:54 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 22:54 | |
| * crythias feels ... icky | 22:56 | |
| PedersenMJ | :takes icky away from crythias before icky files the sexual harassment suit. | 22:57 |
| +crythias | hence the TRO | 22:57 |
| PedersenMJ | tro? | 22:57 |
| +crythias | temp. restraining order | 22:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, see, I haven't had one of those yet. Not sure how I managed to avoid it, but I have. Just lucky that way. | 22:58 |
| PedersenMJ | So, seriously, what's wrong, crythias? | 23:01 |
| +crythias | WRONG? | 23:01 |
| +crythias | sorry | 23:01 |
| +crythias | didn't mean to shout. | 23:01 |
| +crythias | nothing's wrong, that I know... | 23:01 |
| +crythias | I just mistyped something | 23:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, was wondering about the icky thing. | 23:01 |
| * MrHairgrease tests wheter his internetconnection has died | 23:17 | |
| +MrHairgrease | aparently not | 23:17 |
| * crythias killed you for taking his nick | 23:23 | |
| PedersenMJ | Anybody know of a decent webmail interface that uses mod_perl and can handle using imap? | 23:23 |
| +lunchDreamer | nope, sorry | 23:25 |
| +crythias | some reason I'm blocked from http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/~dpc22/prayer/ | 23:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | works for me | 23:25 |
| -!- lunchDreamer is now known as perlDreamer | 23:25 | |
| +crythias | my onsite blocks ac.uk | 23:26 |
| +crythias | http://www.reedmedia.net/misc/mail/web-based.html | 23:26 |
| +crythias | not my isp, but my content filter. | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | under what category? | 23:26 |
| +crythias | dunno. maybe foreign :) | 23:27 |
| +crythias | it's dansguardian, and I can open it as a grey open. | 23:27 |
| +perlDreamer | gotta watch out for that foreign stuff | 23:27 |
| +crythias | I certainly don't need *.ac.uk open completely. pr0n.ac.uk is certainly not on my "ok" list. | 23:28 |
| +crythias | oakmailer looks slick | 23:29 |
| +crythias | http://www.oakbox.com/scripts/oakmailer.shtml#screenshots | 23:29 |
| PedersenMJ | It is, and does, but it doesn't support imap. | 23:32 |
| -!- snap_away is now known as snapcount | 23:47 | |
| +perlDreamer | back and at it like a shark in a tuna factory | 23:51 |
| +crythias | uh | 23:53 |
| +crythias | http://users.ox.ac.uk/~mbeattie/wing/ | 23:56 |
| +crythias | mod_perl and imap | 23:56 |
| @snapcount | sweet... step 1 - resetdev, step 2 - watch load on virt machine jump to 23 and stay there | 23:58 |
| @snapcount | step 3 - listen to fans on the laptop kick in | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | ooh! | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | free power generation | 23:59 |
| +crythias | hrm | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | now, just place a small wind turbine in front of the fan and you can power your laptop from it! | 23:59 |
| +crythias | why should I be blocking government sites? | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | with our goverrnment, you ask this? | 23:59 |
| +crythias | ac.uk is blocked | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Tue Jan 16 2007 | ||
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: perpetual motion++ | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | drat! | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | karma perpetual motion | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot karma perpetual motion | 00:00 |
| perlbot | perpetual motion doesn't have any karma | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | perlDreamer karma motion | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot karma motion | 00:00 |
| perlbot | Karma for motion: 1 | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot -- for not grokking spaces | 00:01 |
| @snapcount | perlbot you are confusing me | 00:01 |
| +crythias | um. | 00:01 |
| @snapcount | perlbot say um | 00:02 |
| @snapcount | perlbot do you do anything useful | 00:02 |
| @snapcount | perlbot help | 00:02 |
| perlbot | (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip) | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot tell snapcount about perlbot | 00:02 |
| @snapcount | perlbot 8ball | 00:03 |
| perlbot | Magic 8ball says: Yes | 00:03 |
| @snapcount | perlbot 8ball | 00:03 |
| perlbot | Magic 8ball says: Definite maybe | 00:03 |
| @snapcount | perlbot help | 00:03 |
| perlbot | (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip) | 00:03 |
| @snapcount | perlbot roll | 00:03 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: is there a way to access logs from the demo server? | 00:04 |
| @snapcount | sure | 00:04 |
| @snapcount | ask me | 00:04 |
| @snapcount | =) | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | this one, please :) | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | ???????????????? | 00:04 |
| @snapcount | ??? | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | or this one: demo1168894497_336 | 00:04 |
| @snapcount | wtf is that? | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | raw UTF8 from an ancient Mozilla on Solaris-8 | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I hate $dayJobBox | 00:05 |
| +perlDreamer | We hates it | 00:05 |
| +perlDreamer | We hates it forever! | 00:05 |
| @snapcount | no entries | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | hmmm | 00:09 |
| @snapcount | cat /data/wre/var/webgui.log | grep demo1168894497_336 | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 00:09 |
| @snapcount | null | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | oh! | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I got it | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | This isn't a bug | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | Kristi's new Zip Archive bug | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not a bug | 00:09 |
| @snapcount | I broke zip archive | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | oh? | 00:10 |
| @snapcount | b/c I'm an idiot | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | do tell | 00:10 |
| @snapcount | you can't upload html files to it anymore | 00:10 |
| @snapcount | I don't think you can anyway | 00:10 |
| @snapcount | b/c of my anti-phishing fix | 00:11 |
| +perlDreamer | oh | 00:11 |
| +perlDreamer | well, in this case it's still not a bug because there's no index.html file in the zip archive | 00:11 |
| +perlDreamer | you're off the hook, dude! | 00:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Back myself, finally. OOg. Anyway, wing: Also at version 0.11, and nothing released since 2001. | 00:11 |
| @snapcount | perlbot help | 00:12 |
| perlbot | (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip) | 00:12 |
| @snapcount | perlbot tell snapcount about Eureka | 00:12 |
| perlbot | Eureka isn't something I know about, snapcount | 00:12 |
| @snapcount | dummy | 00:12 |
| @snapcount | perlbot tell snapcount about the birds and the bees | 00:12 |
| perlbot | the birds and the bees isn't something I know about, snapcount | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot learn Eureka as A show on the scifi Channel | 00:13 |
| perlbot | added Eureka to the database | 00:13 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot tell snapcount about Eureka | 00:13 |
| @snapcount | I see | 00:13 |
| @snapcount | calc with much more typing | 00:13 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 00:13 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot docs Parse::Recdescent | 00:14 |
| perlbot | Documentation for 'Parse::Recdescent' can be found here: http://snipurl.com/17l01 | 00:14 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot fortune | 00:14 |
| +crythias | http://web-imap.sourceforge.net/ | 00:14 |
| perlbot | In the Garden of Eden sat Adam, Massaging the bust of his madam, He chuckled with mirth, For he knew that on earth, There were only two boobs and he had 'em. | 00:14 |
| @snapcount | perlbot snakes on a plane > the green mile | 00:14 |
| @snapcount | I'm still trying to decipher the help | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot slap snapcount | 00:15 |
| * perlbot slaps snapcount around a bit with a large trout | 00:15 | |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot diss khenn | 00:15 |
| perlbot | OMG khenn sucks. | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot tempt preaction-m | 00:15 |
| @snapcount | perlbot jargon web2.0 | 00:15 |
| perlbot | Term "web2.0" not found in the Jargon file | 00:15 |
| +crythias | perlbot crythias | 00:15 |
| +crythias | perlbot tell me about crythias | 00:16 |
| perlbot | crythias isn't something I know about, crythias | 00:16 |
| @snapcount | perlbot roll 1000 | 00:16 |
| @snapcount | perlbot roll | 00:16 |
| PedersenMJ | So, it seems like all the mod perl/imap clients out there are no longer maintained, or never got to a decent size. | 00:16 |
| +crythias | perlbot fortune | 00:16 |
| perlbot | Dope will get you through times of no money better that money will get you through times of no dope. -- Gilbert Shelton | 00:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Including WING (0.11, last release Aug 13, 2001) | 00:16 |
| @snapcount | perlbot scramble this is a secret message | 00:17 |
| perlbot | tihs is a seerct massege | 00:17 |
| +crythias | yeahbut, how often does imap/web actually change? | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: what if uploaded HTML files had to go through an HTML filter, instead of blocking them outright? | 00:17 |
| @snapcount | filter? | 00:18 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 00:18 |
| @snapcount | like a Britta? | 00:18 |
| PedersenMJ | For the apparent best one to be at v 0.11 is somewhat disconcerting. | 00:18 |
| +perlDreamer | scrub links, remove javascript, macros, etc. | 00:18 |
| @snapcount | oh | 00:18 |
| @snapcount | don't want to do that for zip archive | 00:18 |
| @snapcount | I already have a solution, just can't implement it until 7.4 | 00:19 |
| +crythias | pedersonmj: what? :) it's not like all the bug fixes we're doing make it to stable releases for wg. Oh, wait... | 00:19 |
| +perlDreamer | can you clue me in? | 00:19 |
| @snapcount | sure | 00:19 |
| @snapcount | basically addFileFromFormPost is going to accept a parameter of the file types to block | 00:19 |
| cap10morgan | when you submit a dataform, what method gets called to process the post? | 00:20 |
| * crythias simply adds Zimbra to WebGUI and all heck breaks loose... | 00:20 | |
| @snapcount | processPropertiesFromFormPost | 00:20 |
| cap10morgan | ok, that's what i thought, thanks | 00:20 |
| @snapcount | np | 00:20 |
| @snapcount | it will get the defaults from a site wide setting | 00:20 |
| @snapcount | but it will be magical | 00:21 |
| +perlDreamer | doesn't that still allow for phishing? | 00:21 |
| @snapcount | no... because the CS can now pass html as a file type to disallow when it calls addFileFromFormPost | 00:21 |
| @snapcount | and other stuff | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | but whereever the HTML file type is allowed I can still fish | 00:22 |
| @snapcount | it will never be allowed for user contrib content | 00:22 |
| @snapcount | only for things like zip archive | 00:22 |
| -!- preaction__ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit ["Leaving"] | 00:22 | |
| * crythias would like the rss feeds of WG to actually um.. work. | 00:23 | |
| +perlDreamer | okay, that's cool | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | hidden somewhere in the bowels of wG isn't there a javascript string escaping function? | 00:23 |
| @snapcount | its cool because the new way you can even define certain file types to be renamed with certain extensions | 00:23 |
| @snapcount | htmltemplate will do it | 00:24 |
| @snapcount | <tmpl_var content escape='js'> | 00:24 |
| @snapcount | something like that I think | 00:24 |
| +perlDreamer | I need something at the wG API level | 00:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and remember seeing it somewhere, but can't remember where | 00:24 |
| @snapcount | probably HTML.pm | 00:25 |
| -!- preaction-m_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui | 00:25 | |
| +perlDreamer | nope | 00:25 |
| @snapcount | dagnabit | 00:25 |
| @snapcount | HTML::Filter | 00:26 |
| @snapcount | ? | 00:26 |
| @snapcount | that just negates it nm | 00:26 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 00:26 |
| +perlDreamer | it was buried down in some Asset/Operation | 00:26 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll just go back to documentation and let the big boys handle the bug fixing | 00:31 |
| -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit ["Leaving."] | 00:34 | |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/01/hack_this_cmos.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890 | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: shorten it | 00:35 |
| perlbot | Shortened URL: http://xrl.us/t97d | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot++ | 00:35 |
| @snapcount | hand soldering connectors to something that is 8 mil | 00:42 |
| @snapcount | insane | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | nervy | 00:42 |
| -!- preaction-m [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out] | 00:42 | |
| @snapcount | perlbot tell perlDreamer the meaning of life | 00:43 |
| @snapcount | darn | 00:43 |
| @snapcount | perlbot tell perlDreamer about the meaning of life | 00:43 |
| perlbot | the meaning of life isn't something I know about, snapcount | 00:43 |
| @snapcount | come on man | 00:43 |
| +perlDreamer | he's just a youngin' | 00:44 |
| +perlDreamer | not even sentient | 00:44 |
| +perlDreamer | just a bot | 00:44 |
| -!- perlbot was kicked from #webgui by snapcount [get your learn on] | 00:44 | |
| -!- perlbot [n=perlbot@lv.pm.org] has joined #webgui | 00:44 | |
| +perlDreamer | this weekend, for fun, I implemented 4 RFE's in a separate tree | 00:45 |
| -!- snapcount was kicked from #webgui by snapcount [stop kicking people out @$$h0l3] | 00:45 | |
| -!- snapcount [n=snapcoun@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 00:45 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 00:45 | |
| @snapcount | which 4 | 00:46 |
| +perlDreamer | paginating the manage committed version screen | 00:46 |
| +perlDreamer | reverse sort order for same | 00:46 |
| +perlDreamer | um... | 00:46 |
| +perlDreamer | Javascript confirmation for DatabaseLink page | 00:47 |
| xdanger | wow, that yui-ext guy seems like a guru =) | 00:47 |
| +perlDreamer | most of You have (nn) new messages | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | and some refactoring for Pagination and Inbox to speed them up | 00:48 |
| @snapcount | very nice | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks | 00:48 |
| @snapcount | I think the change I made to Calendar will make it slower | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | what did you do/ | 00:48 |
| @snapcount | not checked in yet obviously | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | oh year | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 00:49 |
| @snapcount | added ability to set who can view on events | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | have to do an isInGroup for each user/event | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, but it should cache as long as the groups don't get crazy | 00:49 |
| @snapcount | nope | 00:49 |
| @snapcount | not how I did it | 00:50 |
| @snapcount | guess again | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | is your who can view group or user based? | 00:50 |
| @snapcount | "I'll take Roy's brain for $300 Alex" | 00:50 |
| @snapcount | yes | 00:50 |
| @snapcount | lol | 00:50 |
| @snapcount | group | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | hmm, so you did permissions without using isInGroup? | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | no clue, dude | 00:51 |
| @snapcount | heh | 00:51 |
| @snapcount | canView | 00:51 |
| @snapcount | Event is an asset | 00:51 |
| @snapcount | but in fairness | 00:51 |
| @snapcount | canView does that =) | 00:51 |
| @snapcount | but in Asset.pm... I didn't do it | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | that and more, too, because my way wouldn't have checked edit/owner | 00:51 |
| @snapcount | so I removed his return of objects and did this | 00:52 |
| @snapcount | return grep { $_->canView(); } @{$eventAssets}; | 00:53 |
| @snapcount | or something similar | 00:53 |
| @snapcount | so it's post processing which sucks | 00:53 |
| @snapcount | the list was being generated with getLineage and returning assets so I couldn't see a better way to do it | 00:53 |
| +perlDreamer | unless getLineage would do the work for you, there's not really any alternative | 00:54 |
| @snapcount | yeah... it doesn't | 00:54 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 00:54 | |
| +perlDreamer | it doesn't yet :) | 00:54 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe it needs a pluggable filter system instead of fixed rules | 00:54 |
| @snapcount | a flag to return viewable assets only would be cool | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | that, too. and much simpler | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | After working with the RFE list, I've become convinced we need a way to tag RFEs that are implemented and/or rejected | 00:55 |
| @snapcount | close them | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | I have not that power, Sensei | 00:56 |
| @snapcount | that's how we do it... but rejected we also add a comment saying so and why | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I am only a brown belt. | 00:56 |
| @snapcount | really? | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I may close bugs, but not RFEs | 00:56 |
| @snapcount | that sucketh | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I can send you a list to close? | 00:56 |
| @snapcount | but I understand why | 00:56 |
| @snapcount | no no no | 00:57 |
| @snapcount | =) | 00:57 |
| @snapcount | send it to JT | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 00:57 |
| @snapcount | he's the RFE guy now... I'm but a mere mortal again | 00:57 |
| @snapcount | thank God | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | We'll just call you Bruce. | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | And at least your dog is potty trained now | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | oh! | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I also did the productId display in the editProduct screen RFE | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I guess that's five | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe I'll do the "Handling subscriptions in CS" one next | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I know the guy who wrote it | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | he has some really good ideas for wG | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | sometimes | 01:04 |
| * perlDreamer shudders at the PM templatification | 01:09 | |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui | 01:10 | |
| +perlDreamer | welcome back | 01:10 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ | 01:10 | |
| +crythias | :) | 01:11 |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] | 01:14 | |
| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui | 01:17 | |
| @snapcount | alright guys... it's sibling night so I'm off to hang out with my brothers. | 01:19 |
| rizen | he's lying | 01:19 |
| rizen | don't trust him | 01:19 |
| rizen | he doesn't even have siblings | 01:20 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: nicely done on the RFEs... we should be stable next week so you will have a branch to check them into | 01:20 |
| @snapcount | the abuse I endure | 01:20 |
| @snapcount | we - are - family | 01:20 |
| rizen | anything perlDreamer does is nicely done | 01:20 |
| rizen | tis the nature of being perlDreamer | 01:20 |
| @snapcount | true 'dat pita | 01:21 |
| @snapcount | hehe | 01:21 |
| @snapcount | later guys | 01:21 |
| -!- snapcount is now known as snap_away | 01:21 | |
| * perlDreamer inserts the daily gripe about core commits without docs | 01:33 | |
| +perlDreamer | ProjectManager, Calendar, Event | 01:34 |
| rizen | who did it? | 01:34 |
| +perlDreamer | drake and doug | 01:37 |
| rizen | drake hasn't worked here since before xmas | 01:37 |
| rizen | so are these old infractions? | 01:37 |
| +perlDreamer | they've not been documented since committed | 01:38 |
| rizen | k | 01:38 |
| rizen | i still have to document the wiki too | 01:38 |
| rizen | but that's part of the reason why it's not stable yet | 01:38 |
| +perlDreamer | Are you sure? | 01:38 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/support?op=viewHelpChapter;namespace=Asset_WikiMaster | 01:39 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/support?op=viewHelpChapter;namespace=Asset_WikiPage | 01:39 |
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| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui | 01:47 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ | 01:47 | |
| @rizen | crap the crapping crapper | 01:47 |
| -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui | 01:47 | |
| @rizen | my irc client froze | 01:47 |
| +perlDreamer | that's not good | 01:47 |
| @rizen | i'm trying out a new one | 01:48 |
| @rizen | working from my winblowz box right now | 01:48 |
| @rizen | anyway...who did that? | 01:48 |
| @rizen | i didn't | 01:48 |
| @rizen | or at least i don't remember doing it | 01:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I did | 01:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I do most of your and Frank's docs | 01:48 |
| @rizen | hehe | 01:48 |
| @rizen | you bastard | 01:48 |
| @rizen | i mean | 01:48 |
| @rizen | thank you | 01:48 |
| @rizen | but you shouldn't have | 01:48 |
| @rizen | it's my responsibility | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | you go fix bugs, I'll do your docs | 01:49 |
| @rizen | hehe | 01:49 |
| @rizen | ok...well wed-fri thats what i'll be doing | 01:49 |
| @rizen | well, that and support | 01:49 |
| @rizen | incidentally, i'm laying down the law on 7.4 | 01:49 |
| @rizen | we cannot release it stable until 100% of the bugs in the bug list are 100% resolved | 01:50 |
| +perlDreamer | wow | 01:50 |
| +perlDreamer | 7.4 will be the most stable of wG ever with that criterion | 01:50 |
| @rizen | yup | 01:50 |
| @rizen | that's the goal | 01:50 |
| @rizen | i'm sick of continuously having so many bugs out there | 01:50 |
| @rizen | and i'm sure the users are too | 01:50 |
| +perlDreamer | there are bugs going back to 6.8 in the list | 01:51 |
| @rizen | i know | 01:51 |
| @rizen | and it's about time they were gone | 01:51 |
| @rizen | don't you think? | 01:51 |
| @rizen | hehe | 01:51 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah! | 01:51 |
| @rizen | other than a special utility script i've been working on | 01:51 |
| @rizen | i won't be adding any new features to 7.4 | 01:51 |
| @rizen | just doing the best practices stuff | 01:52 |
| @rizen | and fixing bugs | 01:52 |
| @rizen | so it should be a really stable release | 01:52 |
| @rizen | unless someone goes in and starts adding lots of new features | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | :) | 01:52 |
| @rizen | i'm looking at you COLIN | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | you should | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | it's mainly pagination, ordering and javascript confirmation stuff | 01:52 |
| @rizen | cool...usability improvements are always good | 01:52 |
| @rizen | anyway...gotta go | 01:53 |
| +perlDreamer | plus two optimizations to speed up the Inbox and Paginator | 01:53 |
| @rizen | got company | 01:53 |
| +perlDreamer | l8r | 01:53 |
| @rizen | later | 01:53 |
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| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] | 02:06 | |
| -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] | 02:28 | |
| preaction-m_ | so colin will document frank and JT | 02:37 |
| preaction-m_ | 's code, but not mine... i feel loved | 02:37 |
| -!- preaction-m_ is now known as preaction | 02:37 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ | 02:37 | |
| @preaction | oh well, i'm still prettier than colin | 02:42 |
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| -!- diakopter [n=perl@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui | 03:34 | |
| Radix-wrk | Anyone recommend a good ftp US based ftp hosting service - got about 5GB I need to store and do about 50GB of traffic a month | 03:44 |
| xdanger | amazon s3 ?-) | 03:45 |
| xdanger | not ftp, but still =) | 03:45 |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. wonder what that'd work out to be cost wise | 03:46 |
| Radix-wrk | currently using pair networks - paying US$30/month for 3GB of space with plenty of bandwidth spare, but to upgrade from there it jumps up significantly.. 4GB is $50/m, and the next step up from there is $75/m for 20GB. | 03:48 |
| Radix-wrk | We'll prolly upgrade to the $50/m plan, but I can see us needing more than 4GB space in future - so looking at what alternatives are out there | 03:49 |
| +crythias | well, wait a sec.. | 03:51 |
| +crythias | why not putfile or rapidshare? | 03:51 |
| xdanger | $0.15 per GB-Month of storage used. | 03:52 |
| xdanger | $0.20 per GB of data transferred. | 03:52 |
| Radix-wrk | We're not that cheap - we want it to last until we delete it, and it's for our company - downloads for our software | 03:52 |
| xdanger | Radix-wrk: (5 * 0.15) + (50 * 0.20) = 10.75 | 03:52 |
| +crythias | aol xdrive 5gb for free. | 03:53 |
| Radix-wrk | S3 actually sounds pretty good.. issues would be getting it to work smoothly with the system we have really | 03:53 |
| xdanger | Radix-wrk: there is a fuse module for s3 | 03:53 |
| xdanger | i belive | 03:53 |
| Radix-wrk | got scripts for uploading each version to our ftp, and our webgui version system is also scripted to assume they'll be in the right location with our default names. S3 sounds like it gives random url's for every file. | 03:54 |
| xdanger | it does | 03:54 |
| xdanger | you could write a macro to translate ;) | 03:54 |
| +crythias | but... | 03:55 |
| +crythias | bluehost has lotsa space.. | 03:55 |
| +crythias | 200gb space, 200gigs of transfer | 03:55 |
| +crythias | sorry | 03:55 |
| +crythias | 2000 gigs of transfer | 03:56 |
| +crythias | $7/month | 03:56 |
| Radix-wrk | bluehost? url? | 03:56 |
| +crythias | bluehost.com | 03:57 |
| xdanger | its almost 4am, I'm going to bed... | 03:57 |
| +crythias | I use it for gwy.org | 03:57 |
| Radix-wrk | you used them before? | 03:57 |
| +crythias | no porn sites, just fyi | 03:57 |
| Radix-wrk | lol.. it's not for porn :) | 03:57 |
| Radix-wrk | we write CAD/CAM software | 03:57 |
| +crythias | heh | 03:58 |
| Radix-wrk | www.formsys.com | 03:58 |
| +crythias | well, based upon your needs, I can't see how this would be unreasonable. | 03:58 |
| +crythias | 1and1.com is competitive. | 04:00 |
| +crythias | same space and xfer | 04:00 |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. thanks.. you've both given me something to think about :) | 04:00 |
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| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui | 06:27 | |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, are you awake? | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | in case you are awake, or come back later | 06:41 |
| +perlDreamer | there are XSS attacks on PB's site on the bug and RFE forums | 06:41 |
| +perlDreamer | If you could pull them so that people don't use them, it would be good | 06:41 |
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| -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit ["Leaving"] | 07:01 | |
| Radix-wrk | xdanger - was it you who was talking about a plugin for webgui uploads to link it to amazon's s3? that would rock | 07:39 |
| Radix-wrk | now that I know a little more about amazon's s3 stuff I know where you were coming from :) | 07:39 |
| @preaction | it was someone from Donorware, I believe | 08:24 |
| @preaction | i've also found the XSS vulnerability that perlDreamer found... | 08:25 |
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| -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] | 09:59 | |
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| -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI | 17:13 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ | 17:13 | |
| @khenn | morning | 17:13 |
| @khenn | anything interesting going on today? | 17:13 |
| * khenn listens to the sound of crickets | 17:16 | |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 17:18 | |
| * PedersenMJ waves from his lovely cube in Springfield, NJ. Hi all. | 17:19 | |
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| PedersenMJ | Hey JT, how's it going? | 18:13 |
| @rizen | it is | 18:13 |
| @rizen | that's about it | 18:13 |
| @rizen | how about you | 18:13 |
| PedersenMJ | Back pain, but better than it was yesterday. | 18:15 |
| PedersenMJ | Today, at least, I'm at work, instead of at home. | 18:15 |
| @rizen | i'm supposed to be working on the admin guide today...but suffering from writers block or something | 18:15 |
| @rizen | nothing seems to come out right | 18:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, tricks I've used are simply stream of consciousness, and pick somebody, and write at them. | 18:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Of course, it can also be pick somebody you hate, and make sure they never get their hands on this information. | 18:21 |
| @rizen | and i was thinking the way out was to go out and commit a few fellonies | 18:22 |
| @rizen | let the cops chase me | 18:22 |
| @rizen | get the adreanaline up | 18:22 |
| @rizen | you know...get the rush going | 18:22 |
| @rizen | hehe | 18:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, if that helps, go for it :) | 18:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Suggest minor felonies, like rape and murder. Don't do the big stuff, like copyright infringement. We want to get you back someday. | 18:23 |
| @khenn | The cure for writers block is sex | 18:56 |
| @khenn | proven fact | 18:56 |
| @rizen | the cure for life is death...proven fact | 18:57 |
| @rizen | and i'm pretty sure that mine is more factual than yours | 18:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh. But his is *lots* more fun to try to disprove. | 18:58 |
| @khenn | the only thing death is a cure for is taxes | 18:59 |
| @rizen | not true | 19:00 |
| @rizen | death is a cure for lots of stuff | 19:00 |
| PedersenMJ | Hah! You forget the inheritance tax, the fact that you still have to file a final tax return, and the thousand other taxes, including the "because you're dead and we can". | 19:00 |
| @khenn | well *I* don't have to | 19:01 |
| @khenn | =) | 19:01 |
| PedersenMJ | True. After all, what are they going to do, put you in jail for a few decades? | 19:01 |
| @khenn | my rotting corpse would be just fine with that I'm sure | 19:01 |
| PedersenMJ | The "khenn Memorial Correctional Facility", where every cell comes with ventilation ducts coming right from khenn's cell, to ensure you have no desire to ever return! | 19:02 |
| @khenn | heh | 19:03 |
| @khenn | there's one way to fix the jails | 19:03 |
| @khenn | but like everything else, after a while the prisoners would get used to the smell | 19:04 |
| PedersenMJ | Which is why you'd also use the cell as a cesspool and (on alternating days) a kitchen. | 19:05 |
| @khenn | remind me not to commit any crimes in your world =p | 19:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Relax. It's pretty hard to commit a crime in my world. Just don't screw over somebody else without one helluva good reason. For instance: Kill someone. Bad. They were getting ready to kill you? Fine, they've learned their lesson. | 19:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, JT? Sorry to be annoying, but I gotta ask if 7.3 is still on schedule to go stable this week? | 19:08 |
| @rizen | it never was on schedule for that | 19:09 |
| @rizen | 7.3 will be stable when it reaches all the criteria that snapcount set forth for it | 19:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Thought I remembered your saying it ... Dang, I misinterpreted, and saw what I wanted to see. Sorry for that. | 19:09 |
| @rizen | i probabably said something like "i hope.." | 19:10 |
| @rizen | but hope is just what i want, not what will be | 19:10 |
| PedersenMJ | I think that's exactly what you said. | 19:12 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui | 19:14 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ | 19:14 | |
| @rizen | so as i was saying nobody really likes colin | 19:15 |
| @rizen | he's such a jackass | 19:15 |
| @rizen | oh, hi colin | 19:15 |
| @rizen | didn't see you there | 19:15 |
| @rizen | =) | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | I read the IRC logs | 19:18 |
| @preaction | loser | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | did you get my email | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | If you want to talk about docs, I'll be around today | 19:19 |
| @rizen | get your email about what? | 19:19 |
| @rizen | the xss thing/ | 19:19 |
| @rizen | ? | 19:19 |
| @preaction | Calendar doc | 19:19 |
| @preaction | he read the logs and saw me complain about him doing yours and Frank's docs, but not mine because he hates me | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't hate you | 19:20 |
| @preaction | he lurbes me! | 19:20 |
| @rizen | he does my docs cuz i'm the Don and he's my Capo | 19:21 |
| @rizen | that's what Capo's do | 19:21 |
| @rizen | =) | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I do your docs because I want you fixing bugs in wG | 19:21 |
| * preaction doesn't touch that with his ten-foot pole | 19:21 | |
| +perlDreamer | did the xss thing get fixed? | 19:23 |
| @preaction | i repaired the site, disabled the account | 19:25 |
| @preaction | i know the problem, e-mailed the staff, and I should probably post a bug to the forums, unless you want to | 19:26 |
| @preaction | (since you discovered it) it's because you can put HTML in usernames | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | either way is okay with me | 19:28 |
| @preaction | in fact, i've got time right now i'll try to get a patch made quick | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | I think snap may already have fixed it | 19:33 |
| @preaction | he said he was going to, but he's offline and i can't ask if he did... the jerk... i'll rudely call his cellphone | 19:35 |
| @preaction | if he didn't, i'm done already | 19:35 |
| @preaction | he fixed it, so i'm posting the bug and a patch made from his code | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | are there other places that we could look at to head off a new attack? | 19:50 |
| @preaction | something proactive? i don't think that will work | 19:50 |
| @preaction | otherwise, for the most part, anything that could be input by an unpriviledged user must be passed through an HTML filter | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what I was thinking | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | user profile fields | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | account data | 19:51 |
| @preaction | the problem lies in when an admin actually Wants HTML to be in there | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 19:52 |
| @preaction | for example: i was going to deny any username from having a < or > in them, but roy only disallowed people from entering < or > in the UI | 19:52 |
| @preaction | so through the API, it's still possible to make invalid usernames, but not through the UI | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | we have separate form fields for text and HTML areas | 19:53 |
| @preaction | (well, not invalid as much as unsafe) | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we need the same for single lines of text | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | then it would be clear for admins to designate | 19:53 |
| @preaction | a PlainText form element that would strip html? | 19:54 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 19:54 |
| @preaction | sounds good to me, then we could replace some of the existing stuff with those to protect them | 19:54 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, that's where we need rizen to weigh in. Because right now there's no way to tell. | 19:55 |
| @preaction | think i should make this bug sticky until 7.3 goes stable? | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | It wouldn't hurt | 19:56 |
| @preaction | put some important-sounding title "SECURITY UPDATE: XSS vulnerability" | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | do we need to make a vulnerability disclosure as well? | 19:56 |
| @preaction | like a news item? | 19:56 |
| @preaction | that'd be other people's decision, i'm ignorant in that department | 19:57 |
| @preaction | I'd be for it, but the more disclosure, the more possibility for chaos | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | or attack | 19:57 |
| @rizen | do you have a patch and instructions for the defect? | 19:57 |
| @preaction | i mean, there are probably people who simply troll CMS sites looking for vulnerability disclosures to exploit | 19:57 |
| @rizen | if so, go to getwebgui.com and release an advisory | 19:57 |
| @preaction | yes | 19:57 |
| @rizen | we do not wait | 19:58 |
| @rizen | as soon as we have a working patch, we disclose the vulnerability | 19:58 |
| @preaction | k, something along the lines of "Security Update for WebGUI 7.2+"? | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | wG < 7.3.5 | 19:59 |
| @rizen | it's a problem with all versions of WebGUI 7, right? | 19:59 |
| @preaction | i'm going to find how far back the patch can go | 19:59 |
| @rizen | i generally don't provide a patch file, but rather instructions on how to eliminate the patch | 19:59 |
| @rizen | Search for this line of code | 19:59 |
| @rizen | replace it with this line of code | 20:00 |
| @preaction | there's a few changes in the patch file | 20:00 |
| @preaction | but i can try | 20:00 |
| @rizen | You'll find the line somwhere around line 100 | 20:00 |
| @rizen | yeah, but by providing instructions | 20:00 |
| @rizen | rather than a patch file | 20:00 |
| @rizen | it works for all versions of webgui | 20:00 |
| @rizen | not just 1 or 2 | 20:00 |
| @rizen | Feel free to also provide the patch file if you like | 20:01 |
| @rizen | You've already created it, so why not | 20:01 |
| +perlDreamer | we don't know if it would work for wg < 7.0 | 20:01 |
| @rizen | but the instructions are what's important | 20:01 |
| @rizen | i don't care if it doesn't work for less than 7.0 | 20:01 |
| @rizen | less than 7.0 isn't supported | 20:01 |
| @rizen | but instructions will work for all versions of 7.0 | 20:01 |
| @rizen | a patch file might not | 20:02 |
| @rizen | or rather 7.x | 20:02 |
| @preaction | it will definately work back to 7.2.0, and probably work before that, but i'll also provide detailed instructions for if patch fails | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | the patch won't fail, it will just make a broken module | 20:02 |
| @preaction | patch -p0 < patch.txt -- can either fail or succeed, no? i'll rtfm | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | no, you're right | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm still used to the ancient patch at work | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | it will just break stuff | 20:04 |
| @preaction | actually, it might succeed on one hunk but fail on another, and in that case it would probably break | 20:04 |
| @preaction | so i'll advise anyone not familiar with patch, or not confident enough to restore that file from a backup to do manual editing | 20:04 |
| @khenn | can anyone read this: | 20:18 |
| @khenn | my $rest = join "\n", map {sprintf '<option value="%s" %s>%0*d</option>', $_, ((defined $value && $value == $_)? 'selected="selected"' : ''), $size, $_; } ($from..$to); | 20:18 |
| @preaction | yes | 20:19 |
| @khenn | I know what it's doing | 20:19 |
| @rizen | yes | 20:19 |
| @khenn | but that has to be the most convoluted piece of crap I've ever seen | 20:19 |
| @rizen | indeed | 20:19 |
| @preaction | actually i like it, the use of sprintf() at least | 20:19 |
| @khenn | to prepad the zero? | 20:19 |
| @khenn | yeah that's useful | 20:20 |
| @rizen | i like the code honestly | 20:20 |
| @khenn | I'm going to use that | 20:20 |
| @rizen | but it should be cleaned up | 20:20 |
| @preaction | and to keep the html/vars seperate | 20:20 |
| @rizen | per the perl best practices | 20:20 |
| @rizen | it shouldn't be all on one line like that | 20:20 |
| @rizen | because it's difficult to read | 20:21 |
| @rizen | that's chapter one of pbp | 20:21 |
| @preaction | map is so easy to abuse, but it's so damned useful | 20:21 |
| @khenn | I don't have the book yet =p | 20:21 |
| @khenn | waiting for my copy still | 20:21 |
| @rizen | oh crap | 20:21 |
| @khenn | and you mean WBP right? | 20:21 |
| @rizen | i'll order it today | 20:21 |
| @rizen | yes | 20:21 |
| @rizen | WBP | 20:21 |
| @khenn | =) | 20:21 |
| @khenn | but do you know why this code is stupid? | 20:22 |
| @khenn | not because of the code itself | 20:22 |
| @preaction | it replicates a <tmpl_loop> ? | 20:23 |
| @khenn | but because it should be WebGUI::Form::selectBox() | 20:23 |
| @khenn | I couldn't post it all here | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | lol | 20:23 |
| @preaction | i won't pick the nit that using WebGUI::Form::* is mixing HTML with code :p | 20:30 |
| @preaction | i've got an advisory written up, does anyone want to proofread / make suggestions before i post? | 20:31 |
| @preaction | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/security-update-cross-site-scripting-vulnerability <- the complete text of the advisory I will be posting to getwebgui.com | 20:33 |
| @rizen | nicely done | 20:34 |
| @rizen | only one addition | 20:34 |
| @rizen | tell them that this bug is fixed in 7.3.5 and above | 20:35 |
| @preaction | k | 20:35 |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as perlShoveler | 20:40 | |
| -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui | 21:05 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ | 21:05 | |
| +crythias | http://kevininscoe.com/pub/Nowee.opensource.png | 21:13 |
| -!- perlShoveler is now known as perlDreamer | 21:14 | |
| +crythias | B U T FUL | 21:15 |
| +perlDreamer | do you mid-east type people shovel snow a lot? | 21:16 |
| +crythias | What's snow? | 21:16 |
| +perlDreamer | uh, think shaved ice falling out of the sky | 21:17 |
| +crythias | like italian ice? | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, no syrup though | 21:21 |
| @khenn | in WebGUI::Session::DateTime ... | 21:26 |
| @khenn | $temp = $self->session->user->profileField('dateFormat') || '%M/%D/%y'; | 21:26 |
| @khenn | should that instead be : | 21:26 |
| @khenn | $temp = $self->session->user->profileField('dateFormat') || '%y-%M-%D'; ... ? | 21:26 |
| @khenn | intl format the default? | 21:26 |
| @khenn | line 316 | 21:26 |
| @rizen | it doesn't matter at all | 21:27 |
| @rizen | the only time that will ever be used | 21:27 |
| @rizen | is if the site admin somehow screws up their database | 21:27 |
| @rizen | and deletes the default setting from the user profiling system | 21:27 |
| @rizen | which isn't usually possible | 21:27 |
| @rizen | unless they're really fucking around | 21:27 |
| @rizen | the only reason that is there is as a fail safe | 21:28 |
| @khenn | I see | 21:28 |
| @khenn | Doug, I'm adding WebGUI date str conversions to your DateTime package (which rules btw) | 21:32 |
| @khenn | JT, if I add a brand new API method which doesn't affect anything in WebGUI to something, do I still need to wait until we branch to check it in? | 21:34 |
| @khenn | I'm guessing yes | 21:34 |
| @rizen | yes | 21:38 |
| @rizen | the word "add" implies next major revision | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | don't ask about the branch | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | It makes him mad | 21:39 |
| @rizen | that's it 5 | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | Just like Mongo | 21:39 |
| @rizen | 6 | 21:39 |
| -!- diakopter [i=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui | 21:40 | |
| @rizen | diakopter is that a reference to Sim City? | 21:41 |
| diakopter | not when I came up with it. I couldn't find any hits on google for that spelling. Was there a diakopter of sorts in Sim City? | 21:42 |
| +crythias | I can't believe it's not pudding. | 21:42 |
| @rizen | i don't know how it was spelled | 21:43 |
| @rizen | but the diacopter in the sim city was the news helicopter that would fly over when you had a disaster break out in the city | 21:44 |
| diakopter | ah. | 21:44 |
| * diakopter searches the long channel member list for snapc0unt | 21:46 | |
| +perlDreamer | no snapc0unt today | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | I could use some help grok'ing this line | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | my $selfUrlHtml = WebGUI::HTML::format($self->getUrl, 'text'); | 21:49 |
| @rizen | not sure why anyone would use that code | 21:50 |
| @rizen | but it would strip any html out of the url if there were any | 21:50 |
| @rizen | but the url system wouldn't allow that anyway | 21:50 |
| @rizen | so it's unnecessary | 21:50 |
| +perlDreamer | would it break form variables by encoding the ampersand? | 21:51 |
| @rizen | perhaps, but webgui doesn't generate urls with ampersands in it | 21:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I wonder what Sam Kinnison would be like on IRC... | 22:09 |
| @rizen | like me, only worse | 22:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I may channel him | 22:11 |
| @rizen | what was it he used to say | 22:13 |
| @rizen | FUUUUUUUUCCCCKKK IIIIIIIITTTT!!! | 22:14 |
| +perlDreamer | aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh | 22:14 |
| +perlDreamer | AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 22:14 |
| +perlDreamer | aaahhhh aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh | 22:14 |
| +perlDreamer | he must have given great sermons | 22:14 |
| @rizen | indeed | 22:14 |
| * diakopter wonders who Sam Kinnison is | 22:19 | |
| @rizen | ah the sheltered youth | 22:19 |
| @rizen | http://www.samkinison.org/ | 22:19 |
| +perlDreamer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Kinison | 22:21 |
| @rizen | comedian, actor, singer, and preacher | 22:22 |
| @rizen | his comic act was famous for his loud yelling rants | 22:22 |
| +perlDreamer | worm food | 22:22 |
| @rizen | oh yeah, and he died of an od | 22:22 |
| @khenn | I have to say, the WebGUI::DateTime is much cooler than WebGUI::Session::DateTime | 22:27 |
| @khenn | though Doug fucked up the constructor | 22:27 |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as lunchDreamer | 22:28 | |
| * khenn slaps preaction and his crappy if/else constructor | 22:30 | |
| * rizen slaps khenn for slapping preaction | 22:30 | |
| * PedersenMJ slaps rizen, just to get in on the slap-happiness | 22:31 | |
| * rizen then slaps kheen for slapping preaction | 22:31 | |
| * rizen beats PedersenMJ down for not knowing his place | 22:31 | |
| * rizen then slaps himself while saying "woop-woop-woop" | 22:32 | |
| PedersenMJ | Yeeha! My morale is better already :) | 22:32 |
| * khenn khenn steals the rest of rizen's Sopranos DVDs | 22:33 | |
| * khenn doesn't know the proper way to use emotes | 22:33 | |
| * rizen takes a nap since i didn't go to bed until 5am | 22:33 | |
| * diakopter spits into the wind. eeewwwww. | 22:33 | |
| PedersenMJ | I went to bed *way* earlier. Hopefully, tonight can be a normal night, so I can work out some of the details of a theme, and get it uploaded. Well, maybe not that far. I'm not *that* good yet. | 22:35 |
| -!- perlm [n=chatzill@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has joined #webgui | 22:51 | |
| -!- lunchDreamer is now known as perlDreamer | 22:59 | |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ: how's the back today? | 23:00 |
| @rizen | broken | 23:00 |
| @rizen | he's in a cast now | 23:01 |
| +perlDreamer | short nap | 23:02 |
| @rizen | i never went | 23:02 |
| @rizen | there will be plenty of time to sleep when i'm dead | 23:02 |
| +perlDreamer | can I tag along tomorrow when you're bug fixing? | 23:18 |
| -!- diakopter [i=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has quit [] | 23:24 | |
| @rizen | talking to me? | 23:31 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 23:31 |
| @rizen | what does that mean | 23:32 |
| @rizen | are you coming to madison? | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | not until September | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe over IM/IRC | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | it would probably slow you down a lot | 23:32 |
| @rizen | i'll be on im all day | 23:32 |
| @khenn | anyone know how I can fix this: | 23:32 |
| @khenn | (4264) Apache2::SizeLimit httpd process too big, exiting at SIZE=72724 KB SHARE=4764 KB REQUESTS=6 LIFETIME=0 seconds | 23:32 |
| @rizen | that's not a bug | 23:32 |
| @khenn | yeah I know | 23:32 |
| @rizen | it's supposed to be happening | 23:32 |
| @khenn | I just want to know how to fix it | 23:32 |
| @khenn | oh | 23:32 |
| @rizen | so why do you aks how to fix it | 23:32 |
| @khenn | then nm | 23:32 |
| @khenn | I thought I could change an apache config setting | 23:33 |
| @khenn | and stop that from being thrown | 23:33 |
| @rizen | you can have it happen less often | 23:33 |
| @rizen | the processess should last longer than 0 seconds | 23:33 |
| @rizen | edit /data/wre/prereqs/apache/conf/startup.pl | 23:33 |
| @rizen | raise the values in there | 23:33 |
| @rizen | first tell me what they are | 23:33 |
| @rizen | and i can tell you what to raise them to | 23:34 |
| @khenn | MAX_PROCESS_SIZE= 100000 | 23:34 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer: i'm on support and bug fixing tomorrow | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | ok | 23:34 |
| @khenn | MAX_UNSHARED_SIZE = 25000 | 23:34 |
| @rizen | so how much bug fixing i do depends upon how much support i do | 23:34 |
| @rizen | that one | 23:34 |
| @rizen | should be 75000 | 23:34 |
| @khenn | CHECK_EVERY_N_REQUESTS = 5 | 23:34 |
| @khenn | ok | 23:34 |
| @khenn | thanks | 23:35 |
| @rizen | restart after changing | 23:35 |
| @rizen | but yeah | 23:35 |
| @rizen | i'll be glad to have you tag along perlDreamer | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, man | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | er, Sensei | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | what do the a1 .. a20 fields do in the Poll? | 23:42 |
| @rizen | store the answers | 23:42 |
| @rizen | the possible responses to the question | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm halfway done with the ISAs for the wobjects | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | not sure if it there will be time to write the template variable browser though | 23:44 |
| @rizen | template variable browser? | 23:44 |
| @rizen | you mean for a template editor? | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 23:45 |
| @rizen | in due time dood | 23:45 |
| @rizen | it doesn't have to be written overnight | 23:45 |
| perlm | Can someone point me in the direction for how to go about creating your own look and feel for WebGUI? | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | that's all done with templates | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | Style template control header, footer and nav | 23:49 |
| @rizen | webgui done right has 2 chapters on this | 23:50 |
| @rizen | PedersenMJ has also recently learned how, so he can provide some tips | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen, do you mean WDR or the Primer? | 23:51 |
| @rizen | WDR | 23:51 |
| perlm | I know about templates and css, I'm more curious about how it is all layed out. Do all the style info reside in an Import Node? | 23:52 |
| +perlDreamer | they can | 23:52 |
| +perlDreamer | but aren't required to be in any particular place | 23:52 |
| -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit ["Leaving."] | 23:53 | |
| @khenn | a good example is to create a demo and look how the style template is set up there | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | demo.plainblack.com | 23:55 |
| @khenn | if you edit the page, you can backtrack to the style template | 23:55 |
| --- Day changed Wed Jan 17 2007 | ||
| perlm | I've got an install on the test web server and am now just trying to map our current look to the test install. | 00:01 |
| perlm | But our web guy isn't much help, so it is up to me | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | if he can segment your web page into distinct parts, it would help | 00:01 |
| perlm | no, I don't think he can do that. | 00:02 |
| perlm | style 3 has the same layout, so I'll just start replacing images with our and then see which ones need altering to fix the style3 layout. | 00:03 |
| +perlDreamer | be sure to make a copy of it to work on | 00:03 |
| perlm | hah | 00:03 |
| perlm | but where woudl I put this copy? | 00:03 |
| +perlDreamer | right next to the original | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | undef the import node | 00:06 |
| perlm | I used the duplicate button in the asset manager | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | that will work just fine | 00:07 |
| @khenn | does modperl still bomb sometimes when you set global stuff? | 00:26 |
| @khenn | ie I'd like to do: | 00:26 |
| @khenn | er nm | 00:27 |
| @khenn | it won't work anyway | 00:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey guys. Sorry for the idle, been in another department. | 00:35 |
| @rizen | i know you've already changed your mind, but setting globals is never a good idea | 00:36 |
| PedersenMJ | perlDreamer: Back is *much* better. Which means I can walk more or less comfortably today. Which isn't saying too much for being back to normal :) | 00:36 |
| @rizen | that's why we went through the pain of the new session system rewrite | 00:36 |
| @rizen | to get rid of globals | 00:36 |
| PedersenMJ | perlm: The duplicate button won't be enough. | 00:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Duplicate only copies one level, not an entire tree. | 00:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, for help on how to do a whole different theme/look, it's not as tough as you might think. Dunno if you'll be active before I go home, but if not, I'll be happy to help out later tonight (generally speaking between 9:30pm and midnight EST). | 00:39 |
| PedersenMJ | And I go home at about 6:30pm EST. | 00:39 |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as snowDreamer | 00:41 | |
| @preaction | can i do an upgrade on a site that doesn't have an apache instance configured yet? basically can i use the WRE 0.7.2 to upgrade a 6.7.7 site to 7.2.3? | 00:45 |
| @rizen | absolutely | 00:45 |
| @rizen | i do that all the time | 00:45 |
| @preaction | k, thanks | 00:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, now must go back to other dept. bbiab | 00:47 |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui | 00:51 | |
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| perlm | PedersenMJ, I created a new folder and copied everything. But css + layout is so tediously boring. I bet PB will do it for $1k. | 00:55 |
| perlm | Probably have an expert. | 00:55 |
| perlm | I need to make WebGUI look like http://casr.ou.edu/ | 00:55 |
| @khenn | rizen: I'm not talking global to WebGUI, I'm talking global to the package | 01:01 |
| @rizen | are you using "our" | 01:02 |
| @khenn | no | 01:02 |
| @khenn | my | 01:02 |
| @khenn | but it doesn't work anyway | 01:02 |
| @khenn | so it's moot | 01:02 |
| @rizen | and are you explicitly destroying it | 01:02 |
| @khenn | again | 01:02 |
| @khenn | I'm not doing it | 01:02 |
| @preaction | you could "use vars" | 01:02 |
| @rizen | i understand that | 01:02 |
| @rizen | i'm just saying don't | 01:03 |
| @rizen | i'll shut up now | 01:03 |
| @rizen | perlm: making a design like that should be relatively trivial | 01:03 |
| @rizen | the process for taking a design like that and putting it into webgui is described in detail | 01:03 |
| @rizen | getting url | 01:03 |
| @rizen | http://www.plainblack.com/builders/how-to-build-a-style | 01:04 |
| @rizen | if you have any level of support, hosting, or have purchased webgui done right outright | 01:04 |
| @rizen | you can access that page | 01:04 |
| perlm | I accessed it and I have none of those....... | 01:05 |
| perlm | in fact, a whole new bunch of drop downs has opened up in Designers that I've never seen before. | 01:05 |
| @rizen | you can buy it here: https://www.plainblack.com/services/wdr | 01:07 |
| @rizen | if you're interested | 01:07 |
| perlm | Our Web Guy desperately needs it. But I'm not sure I coudl get him to actually read the manual. | 01:09 |
| @rizen | our design team will do it for you for about $400 | 01:09 |
| @rizen | send an email to design@plainblack.com if interested | 01:10 |
| @rizen | preaction | 01:10 |
| perlm | But I'll see if i can get the money for a contract. We're planning on moving everything over to WebGUI, so it could be worth it. | 01:10 |
| @rizen | you here? | 01:10 |
| perlm | brb, going to see if we can shake up $400 for the design. | 01:10 |
| PedersenMJ | perlm: For the record, http://www.nochara.org/ took me less than 8 hours to convert. I think it was only about 6 hours, actually. And that was going from zero knowledge. | 01:13 |
| PedersenMJ | The only thing I had going for me was a decent programming background, and even that didn't do very much at all. | 01:14 |
| perlm | No offense but that is pretty straightforward. No image edges that have to butt up against other images/text | 01:15 |
| PedersenMJ | And you've already got the CSS done. Speaking from my own experience, it's almost not worth the $400 to make plainblack work on it. | 01:16 |
| PedersenMJ | perlm: Step 1 for *any* template: Make the page look right without dealing with making a real template. You've already got the hard work done. | 01:16 |
| perlm | I already have a page+css | 01:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Exactly my point. | 01:17 |
| PedersenMJ | The "conversion to a webgui template" process will only take you a few hours, and will teach you/whomever a bit about webgui in the process. | 01:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, and I don't take offense. I didn't make the design, I found it at a free web site design site. I just made it into a webgui package. You can even download it, if you wish, and import it into your webgui site. You can find it at http://www.plainblack.com/user_contributions/user_contributions/packages/burned-theme#DcmGtgHJ8Eoh_KxAtuiqWA | 01:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Whereever you choose to import it, it will make a folder named "Burned". | 01:20 |
| perlm | sweet | 01:21 |
| PedersenMJ | And all the files which make up that theme will be underneath that folder. | 01:21 |
| perlm | Thanks. will be good to look at. | 01:21 |
| PedersenMJ | I promise you, as difficult as you might think it is, it is a hundred times easier than you can imagine. Mostly, it involves putting a few special lines of code into your page, and that's it. | 01:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Mostly. | 01:22 |
| PedersenMJ | brb | 01:22 |
| perlm | k | 01:22 |
| @rizen | i agree,it's pretty easy | 01:22 |
| @rizen | and i'd much rather see you do it yourself than have us do it | 01:22 |
| @rizen | cuz that means there will be one more educated person in the community | 01:22 |
| @rizen | not sure if that means anything to you | 01:22 |
| @rizen | but for what it's worth, there it is | 01:23 |
| PedersenMJ | You see, it's not me trying to take money from rizen. He said the same thing to me. | 01:23 |
| PedersenMJ | And, now that I've got one done, I've got a good three more that I'm planning on, and then one every week or two for a long while to come. | 01:24 |
| perlm | Thanks rizen. WebGUI is part of the Perl community and I certainly want to see it grow. | 01:25 |
| perlm | In fact, one of the (plethora) of ideas I have for side gigs is to use the very cheap hosting at PB and build sites for small businesses. | 01:26 |
| perlm | but first I probably need to know how to build a site myself :P | 01:26 |
| PedersenMJ | That tutorial mentioned earlier is pretty decent. The one thing that jumps out at me is to be careful, and where it says carotFileUrl type in ^FileUrl | 01:27 |
| PedersenMJ | I seem to recall a few other *very* minor issues, but I need to work through my next theme to properly document it. | 01:27 |
| -!- snowDreamer is now known as perlDreamer | 01:28 | |
| perlm | Yeah, I've asked the web guy to see about getting the $125 for the educational package. | 01:28 |
| @rizen | perlm: we have lots of people using the agency hosting to do exactly that | 01:29 |
| @rizen | and making a good living at it | 01:29 |
| @rizen | several of them have quit their day jobs and do nothing but that now | 01:29 |
| perlm | Wow! That is music to my ears :) | 01:29 |
| @rizen | the recurring income is pretty good once you get going | 01:29 |
| perlm | One, it is good to know WebGUI+Perl are growing, and Two, people are making a living doing something I'm thinking about doing. | 01:30 |
| @rizen | one of the people doing that has over $1200 per month in profit from her agency hosted sites | 01:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Heck, I bought access to WDR, for me, personally, without going through work. It's worth it. | 01:30 |
| @preaction | CentOS4 corresponds to the RHEL4 WRE correct? | 01:30 |
| @rizen | yup | 01:30 |
| @rizen | you can check the os version by checking /etc/redhat-release | 01:31 |
| @preaction | yeah, i had to ask #rhel about that one ;) | 01:31 |
| @preaction | the mysql server just took longer than setup allowed to start up for some reason | 01:31 |
| perlm | I see what you guys were saying. It is basically just creating a Template::Toolkit template like you would normally use and putting in special WebGUI macros to be called. And I probably should pay for the info packet since it has this type of information all neatly organized. | 01:37 |
| +perlDreamer | HTML::Template | 01:37 |
| +perlDreamer | much simpler to work with | 01:37 |
| perlm | even better :) | 01:37 |
| +perlDreamer | if you're more familiar with T::T, you can plug it in, but all of wG's default templates at H::T | 01:38 |
| perlm | I've used both in equal amouts of "little" so whichever was good enough for JT, is good enough for me. | 01:38 |
| @preaction | H::T is more template and less magic | 01:43 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, sorry to say, but time for me to run. Will bbl. | 01:45 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 01:46 | |
| perlm | Okay, I'm off to the races. Thanks for the help, and have a good one. | 01:51 |
| -!- perlm [n=chatzill@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/0000000000]"] | 01:51 | |
| -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui | 01:58 | |
| +perlDreamer | morning, Radix | 01:58 |
| @preaction | why would mysql need 400 megabytes of memory? | 01:59 |
| @preaction | er.. rather mysqld? | 02:00 |
| +perlDreamer | big query? | 02:00 |
| +perlDreamer | caching? | 02:00 |
| @preaction | holy crap, that IS how big it is... | 02:00 |
| @preaction | i'm getting out-of-memory errors trying to do these upgrades | 02:00 |
| +perlDreamer | transactional db | 02:00 |
| @preaction | also firefox leaks like a sieve... anyway | 02:00 |
| @rizen | normal operation on plainblack.com | 02:01 |
| @rizen | mysql uses about 350mb | 02:01 |
| @preaction | perhaps it's perl that's out of memory | 02:02 |
| @rizen | how much ram is on this machine you're working on? | 02:02 |
| @preaction | looks like only 512m | 02:02 |
| @rizen | ah | 02:02 |
| @rizen | webgui requires 1GB+ | 02:02 |
| @preaction | 678m, but only 75m free | 02:02 |
| @preaction | geniuses decides 12gig of swap | 02:03 |
| @rizen | what | 02:03 |
| @rizen | crazy | 02:03 |
| @rizen | you may also want to edit my.cnf | 02:03 |
| @rizen | to lower the amount of ram it's using | 02:03 |
| @rizen | if it's mysql | 02:03 |
| @preaction | if i can make mysql nicer, i might be able to push through the perl part | 02:03 |
| Radix-wrk | morning all | 02:11 |
| Radix-wrk | cheers for the proactive info on the xss problem btw.. great to see patches given for all versions of webgui, not just the latest :) | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction++ | 02:12 |
| Radix-wrk | Now we just need preaction to fill out his People Behind Webgui interview questions :) | 02:14 |
| Radix-wrk | while I'm doing this patching.. can I ask - in recoverPasswordFinish there's a line - $password .= chr(ord('A') + randint(32)); in a loop which seems to generate the new password. I assume randint(32) could be reduced to randint(26) if we just want the letters from A-Z in the password, right? (got users complaining about all sorts of special characters being generated in their passwords and this looks like an easy fix) | 02:18 |
| +perlDreamer | it sounds right, but it would be good to check an ASCII table | 02:18 |
| +perlDreamer | nope | 02:19 |
| +perlDreamer | punctuation is from 91 to 96 | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | how about $password =~ s/\W+//g; | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | that would allow underscores in the password, though | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | $password =~ tr/A-Za-z0-9//cd; | 02:21 |
| +perlDreamer | for pure alphanumerics | 02:21 |
| Radix-wrk | 65+26 = 91 | 02:21 |
| @preaction | Radix-wrk: i already did, Roy's waiting on Steve to properly format my pichar iirc | 02:21 |
| Radix-wrk | but i assume randint generates from 0-(x-1) | 02:21 |
| @preaction | why complaining? they just have to copy/paste | 02:21 |
| @preaction | then they should IMMEDIATELY change their password | 02:22 |
| @preaction | easy as sneezing | 02:22 |
| Radix-wrk | seems easy.. but for some reason some passwords are impossible to enter apparently | 02:22 |
| @rizen | radix: traditionally we always release security patches for older versions | 02:22 |
| Radix-wrk | we've had numerous support issues with it | 02:22 |
| @preaction | but yes, reducing that to 25 should fix it | 02:22 |
| Radix-wrk | the [\' chars I assume | 02:23 |
| @preaction | they don't have US-101/2/3 keyboards? | 02:23 |
| Radix-wrk | we have customers all around the world | 02:23 |
| @preaction | that'd make sense | 02:24 |
| Radix-wrk | about 4500 users last time I checked | 02:24 |
| @preaction | but still, those keys should exist. at any rate, i'll quit my whining | 02:24 |
| Radix-wrk | every time we do a mailout telling them of new content on our site we get hundreds of requests for forgotten passwords | 02:24 |
| @preaction | hooray for lusers! | 02:24 |
| +perlDreamer | that's easy, don't tell them about new content | 02:24 |
| +perlDreamer | :) | 02:24 |
| Radix-wrk | should be as simple as cut/paste I agree, but the volume of complaints tends to suggest there might be a problem :) | 02:24 |
| Radix-wrk | easy fix | 02:25 |
| @preaction | easier fix than reeducating at least | 02:26 |
| Radix-wrk | that patch didn't work for 7.0.8 btw - guess line numbers have changed in 7.3.4, but changes were easy manually thanks to your 5 steps :) | 02:38 |
| @rizen | see preaction | 02:42 |
| @rizen | =) | 02:42 |
| @rizen | that's why i said those were more important than the patch | 02:42 |
| Radix-wrk | well thanks to you then JT :) | 02:43 |
| @rizen | no no | 02:43 |
| @rizen | thanks goes to preaction | 02:44 |
| @rizen | he's the one that did the work | 02:44 |
| @rizen | it all goes to him | 02:44 |
| @rizen | he's just learning how all this works though | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | what does rewriteUrls do on the HttpProxy? | 02:44 |
| @rizen | so that was just some advice | 02:44 |
| @rizen | rewrites the urls so it actually works as a proxy | 02:44 |
| @rizen | so you can click on links | 02:44 |
| @rizen | and move through pages | 02:44 |
| @rizen | and you stay within the webgui site | 02:44 |
| @rizen | without it | 02:44 |
| @rizen | only the first page is proxied | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | then what is followExternal? | 02:45 |
| @rizen | and after that you'll click through to the real site | 02:45 |
| @rizen | links outside of the original domain | 02:45 |
| @rizen | and it only applies if you have rewriteUrls turned on | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, dude | 02:46 |
| +perlDreamer | the Http Proxy docs need a rewrite | 02:46 |
| @rizen | probably | 02:46 |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as perlCooking | 02:59 | |
| Radix-wrk | You cooking the whole camel? | 03:02 |
| Radix-wrk | Actually I've eaten wild camel once - cooked slowly in a lovely stew.. was delicious :) | 03:04 |
| @rizen | i ate camel once when i was in oz | 03:05 |
| @rizen | we went to some restaurant that served all kinds of exotic meats | 03:05 |
| @rizen | i had buffalo, camel, some sort of reptile | 03:06 |
| @rizen | i think maybe croc | 03:06 |
| @rizen | or maybe it was snake | 03:06 |
| @rizen | don't remember | 03:06 |
| @rizen | and then also kangaroo | 03:06 |
| @rizen | they all tasted like crap | 03:06 |
| @rizen | it was downtown sydney. | 03:07 |
| @rizen | some restaurant up in the sky that spins | 03:07 |
| Radix-wrk | heh | 03:09 |
| Radix-wrk | well this was wild camel, that a friend of the family hunted and shot up north of WA. Apparently quite a lot of wild camels out there - bit of a problem for the locals even, so hunting them isn't an issue. It was very very tender because of the way it was cooked and was lovely. | 03:11 |
| Radix-wrk | kangaroo steaks are nice too, but you have to be careful not to overcook them or they become tough and rubbery. Done right they should melt in your mouth. | 03:12 |
| Radix-wrk | kangaroo steaks you can get at the local supermarket easy, but camel, snake, croc, etc are pretty exotic even for us and aren't the easiest things to try (here in WA at least). | 03:14 |
| @rizen | this place must not have known what they were doing | 03:14 |
| @rizen | cuz i'm telling you, it was bad | 03:14 |
| @rizen | one of the worst meals i've ever had | 03:14 |
| Radix-wrk | heh | 03:14 |
| @preaction | Radix-wrk: the patch didn't work because of the line numbers, but it would've been possible to change the options of the patch program to make it fit. the '-p' option specifies the "fuzziness" of the search. '-p0' means it must match exactly. '-p2' means it can have 2 lines of sway one way or the other, i think you can have up to 5 levels. | 03:16 |
| @preaction | also: if you open the patch in a text editor, it's easy to see what needs to change, the lines with "-" at the beginning are removed, and the ones with "+" at the beginning are added | 03:17 |
| Radix-wrk | preaction, yup, tis cool.. manually applied the changes and it works fine :) | 03:17 |
| @preaction | i've been sitting here for 45 minutes watching a 500kB/s connection try to move what must be a gig of uploads data... | 03:17 |
| Radix-wrk | Sounds like fun :) | 03:18 |
| @rizen | yuk | 03:18 |
| @preaction | eh, i could've been playing DDR | 03:19 |
| @rizen | i hope you're doing something else to pass the time | 03:19 |
| @preaction | i mean.. cardiovascular workout | 03:19 |
| @rizen | DDR? | 03:19 |
| @preaction | Dance Dance Revolution | 03:19 |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. Seagate have announced 15k rpm 2.5" drives - I want one for my gaming lappy! :) | 03:48 |
| @preaction | so this move has now taken 1:15 minutes of their billable time.. | 03:52 |
| @rizen | k | 03:52 |
| @preaction | i haven't even gotten to the fun of installing this php app, which i'm hoping works as CGI | 03:53 |
| @rizen | php? | 03:54 |
| @rizen | we don't do php | 03:54 |
| @rizen | did vrby agree to this? | 03:54 |
| @preaction | i imagine it wasn't said that it was a php app | 03:55 |
| @preaction | just a "webmail app" | 03:55 |
| @preaction | actually from some of the language in these mails, perhaps it was Roy who agreed to an unknown "webmail program", at any rate | 03:57 |
| @rizen | what is the name of this client? | 03:58 |
| @preaction | squirrelmail | 03:58 |
| @rizen | the client - company | 03:59 |
| @rizen | not the program | 03:59 |
| @preaction | oh | 03:59 |
| @preaction | finditco - Mike Ferren | 03:59 |
| @rizen | k thanks | 03:59 |
| @preaction | i believe this is ad-hoc | 03:59 |
| xdanger | is there any good webmail progs out there in oss? | 04:01 |
| @rizen | i've heard squirrelmail is ok | 04:01 |
| @rizen | but honestly, it's mostly all crap | 04:01 |
| @rizen | the only thing even close to cool is hula-mail | 04:01 |
| @rizen | and that's only alpha | 04:01 |
| xdanger | Isn't novell abandoning hula? | 04:03 |
| xdanger | And I really want only a webmail (maybe calendar) but not the server... | 04:03 |
| @preaction | far easier to just set up pop3md or pop3ad | 04:04 |
| @rizen | novell is, but that doesn't mean it will go away | 04:05 |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] | 04:06 | |
| @rizen | as far as stand alone webmail the only thing i've heard of being good is squirllmail | 04:06 |
| @rizen | i tried out Courier webmail once, but it was pretty basic. | 04:06 |
| xdanger | roundcube.net is pretty slick | 04:10 |
| xdanger | but it's a beta 0.1 php script ajax thingy... that creeps me =) | 04:10 |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui | 04:27 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ | 04:27 | |
| @khenn | Is there a reason we have HTML::Template includes turned off? | 04:38 |
| @khenn | is it insecure? | 04:38 |
| @preaction | H::T knows nothing of WebGUI assets | 04:38 |
| @khenn | so? | 04:38 |
| @preaction | so you can only include templates from the filesystem | 04:38 |
| @khenn | rigt | 04:39 |
| @khenn | right | 04:39 |
| @preaction | which most webgui users don't have access to / want to use | 04:39 |
| @khenn | why can't we do that? | 04:39 |
| @khenn | I see | 04:39 |
| @preaction | otherwise insecurity, i don't think so | 04:39 |
| @khenn | that makes sense | 04:39 |
| @khenn | thanks | 04:39 |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #webgui [] | 04:43 | |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@68.51.234.189] has joined #webgui | 04:52 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ | 04:52 | |
| @rizen | i wish i knew who used the hack to deface our site | 05:38 |
| @rizen | telling us about it is one thing | 05:38 |
| @rizen | defacing the site to make a point is completely something else | 05:38 |
| @khenn | yeah that sucked | 05:41 |
| @khenn | that's all for me folks | 05:55 |
| @khenn | asta la tomorrow | 05:55 |
| @khenn | hasta even | 05:55 |
| -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] | 05:55 | |
| -!- snapcount [n=snapcoun@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 05:59 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 05:59 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by rizen | 06:02 | |
| @rizen | that rocks | 06:02 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v snapcount] by rizen | 06:02 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by rizen | 06:02 | |
| +perlCooking | wouldn't you at least have the hacker's IP address in the logs | 06:03 |
| +perlCooking | and maybe an email address | 06:03 |
| -!- perlCooking is now known as perlDreamer | 06:03 | |
| @rizen | you're still away | 06:03 |
| @rizen | you can't be talking | 06:03 |
| @rizen | hehe | 06:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm back | 06:04 |
| @snapcount | what did you cook me? I'm hungry | 06:04 |
| +perlDreamer | Denver omlettes, cinnamin chip toast and hazelnut cocoa with whipped cream | 06:04 |
| @rizen | not according to my screen | 06:04 |
| @rizen | you're still away | 06:04 |
| @rizen | you're greyed outr | 06:04 |
| +perlDreamer | weird | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I feel here | 06:05 |
| @rizen | did you type /away | 06:05 |
| @rizen | with no param | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 06:05 |
| @rizen | do that | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | 06:05 | |
| +perlDreamer | uh | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | now what | 06:05 |
| @rizen | hmm..looks like your program doesn't do that | 06:05 |
| @rizen | did you notice a difference on my name in your client? | 06:06 |
| @snapcount | pinch your nose and tilt your head back... start saying your abc's alternating between forward and backwards beginning with J | 06:06 |
| @snapcount | J K I L H ... | 06:06 |
| +perlDreamer | nope | 06:07 |
| +perlDreamer | so, 'bout tracking yon hacker... | 06:07 |
| @rizen | webgui doesn't store an ip with a user account | 06:09 |
| @rizen | and the session is already gone | 06:09 |
| @rizen | so how should i find this user? | 06:09 |
| +perlDreamer | what about apache logs? | 06:09 |
| @rizen | oh...wait..userLoginLog | 06:09 |
| +perlDreamer | and the bug report should have a unique URL for tracking it down | 06:10 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 06:12 | |
| @rizen | ok | 06:13 |
| @rizen | ip is 66.67.114.20 | 06:13 |
| @rizen | compared that with previous logins | 06:13 |
| @rizen | no other users logged in with that ip | 06:13 |
| @rizen | there are 2 active visitor sessions open with that ip | 06:13 |
| +perlDreamer | there's no web server at that address | 06:14 |
| @rizen | both created around the same time as the hacker | 06:14 |
| @rizen | the person is in rochester | 06:14 |
| @rizen | cpe-66-67-114-20.rochester.res.rr.com | 06:14 |
| +perlDreamer | yep | 06:14 |
| @rizen | and use roadrunner internet | 06:14 |
| @rizen | but billions of people use that | 06:14 |
| @rizen | ok millions | 06:15 |
| @rizen | but still | 06:15 |
| @rizen | no help | 06:15 |
| +perlDreamer | we also have the name used on the RFE | 06:16 |
| +perlDreamer | astalavista | 06:16 |
| @rizen | frank says that | 06:16 |
| @rizen | but so do other people | 06:17 |
| +perlDreamer | try googling for it | 06:17 |
| Radix-wrk | name of a rather infamous search engine | 06:17 |
| Radix-wrk | astalavista.box.sk | 06:17 |
| +perlDreamer | also name of a group of hackers | 06:18 |
| +perlDreamer | do we have any German speakers in the channel? | 06:18 |
| @rizen | this isn't going to go anywhere | 06:19 |
| PedersenMJ | no hablo aleman, lo siento decir. | 06:20 |
| PedersenMJ | Solo hablo ingles y espanol. | 06:20 |
| Radix-wrk | Only German I know is from old WWII movies. | 06:21 |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@68.51.234.189] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 06:21 | |
| +perlDreamer | Schnell! | 06:21 |
| Radix-wrk | Nein Nein! Mein Kampf | 06:21 |
| +perlDreamer | Das boot | 06:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Mach schnell! | 06:21 |
| Radix-wrk | Spracken Si Deutsche | 06:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Nein | 06:21 |
| Radix-wrk | Auf wiedersehen | 06:21 |
| @rizen | the attacker was referred from this site | 06:21 |
| @rizen | http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/22051/info | 06:21 |
| @rizen | apparently they aren't part of our community | 06:22 |
| +perlDreamer | you're right, this isn't going anywhere | 06:24 |
| +perlDreamer | oh well | 06:26 |
| +perlDreamer | we broke 9000 automated help and i18n tests today | 06:26 |
| @rizen | too bad too | 06:26 |
| @rizen | cuz even if i found him | 06:26 |
| @rizen | i could only kill him once | 06:27 |
| @rizen | but i could have tortured him for a while | 06:27 |
| @rizen | and gave him blood transfusions to keep him alive | 06:27 |
| @rizen | so i can torture him some more | 06:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Hmmm... hey, JT, can I take back that slap I gave you earlier? | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I suppose in a way he did us a favor by letting us know about th exploit | 06:27 |
| @rizen | true | 06:28 |
| @rizen | i want to know about that sort of stuff | 06:28 |
| @rizen | but i don't want to be slapped in the face while finding out about it | 06:29 |
| @rizen | that sort of thing is unacceptable | 06:29 |
| @rizen | unlike some software companies, we take security seriously | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | an email to the dev list would have been better | 06:30 |
| +perlDreamer | or to PB privately | 06:30 |
| @rizen | either way would have been great | 06:31 |
| PedersenMJ | BTW, since I know there's worry about attacks, I did just update the Burned theme I uploaded the other day. Small update, for the css stylesheet, but it was me, and not a bot. | 06:34 |
| @rizen | the attacks aren't anywhere near that serious | 06:34 |
| @rizen | you know...not to toot my own horn or anything, but when i designed the asset system | 06:35 |
| @rizen | i was brilliant | 06:35 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, I see discussion of one, and wanted to make sure you knew this was a legit update, as opposed to something nefarious going on. | 06:35 |
| @rizen | and now looking back on all the assets created | 06:35 |
| @rizen | i didn't use the api as efficiently as i should have | 06:35 |
| +perlDreamer | you think there's more to wring out? | 06:36 |
| @rizen | absolutely | 06:36 |
| @rizen | for example | 06:36 |
| @rizen | there's a lot of processing in processPropertiesFromForm post | 06:36 |
| @rizen | that should instead be placed into parameter filters | 06:36 |
| @rizen | see the fixUrl method as an example | 06:37 |
| @rizen | in Asset.pm | 06:37 |
| @rizen | i'm adding a fixTitle one right now that will fix this HTML problem system-wide | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | we could also use a javascript escaping function | 06:37 |
| @rizen | WebGUI::HTML does it | 06:38 |
| @rizen | WebGUI::HTML::filter | 06:38 |
| @rizen | will remove it | 06:38 |
| +perlDreamer | uh, to safely escape string to pass into javascript | 06:38 |
| +perlDreamer | quotes, newlines and the like | 06:39 |
| @rizen | oh | 06:39 |
| @rizen | that is handled by the templating engine | 06:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Woohoo! Something else I just found, and will try to keep in place for future templates: Burned validates: http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nochara.org%2Fhome%3Fop%3Dauth%3Bmethod%3Dlogout | 06:39 |
| @rizen | <tmpl_var name="tmplVariableName" escape="JS"> | 06:39 |
| +perlDreamer | will that work if the js is created inside wG instead of in the template? | 06:40 |
| @rizen | no | 06:40 |
| @rizen | but js shouldn't be created in webgui | 06:40 |
| @rizen | generally speaking | 06:40 |
| @rizen | i know it sometimes is | 06:41 |
| @rizen | but that's pretty rare | 06:41 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: even if you generate it in the code, you still have to send it to a template right? So why do you have to escape it in wG? | 06:43 |
| +perlDreamer | well, this is what I was thinking. | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | var foo = <tmpl_var myVar escape="JS"> is one thing | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | $var->{foo} = qq-var one = "one"; var two = $two;- is another entirely | 06:45 |
| +perlDreamer | in the 2nd case, it would mistakenly escape the quotes for the constant | 06:45 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount is either deep in thought or thinking of polite ways to tell me I'm an id10t | 06:48 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm neither, for what it's worth. I'm working on understanding variables. I actually have need of them in my next template (this first one didn't use them at all). | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, JT, one last rabbit trail. He probably used a demo system to practice the hack. Can you see if there are any records of that on demo.pb.com? | 06:49 |
| @rizen | all demos from that era are already gone | 06:50 |
| @rizen | 24 hour existence | 06:50 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, I give | 06:51 |
| @rizen | i'll look, but my guess is it was created before 10:51pm | 06:51 |
| @rizen | yup | 06:53 |
| @rizen | they were on the demo server | 06:53 |
| @rizen | 27 hours ago | 06:53 |
| @rizen | however, we don't keep actual http access logs on the demo server | 06:53 |
| @rizen | so there's no way to know which demo they used | 06:54 |
| @rizen | even if it were still there | 06:54 |
| +perlDreamer | okay. Thanks for checking JT | 06:56 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'm now 0 for 2 | 06:58 |
| +perlDreamer | the particular bug I was looking at that needed JS quoting can be fixed in the template | 06:58 |
| +perlDreamer | do we have a scheduled release for 7.3.5 tomorrow? | 06:58 |
| @rizen | yeah, whenever roy gets to it tomorrow | 06:59 |
| @rizen | =) | 06:59 |
| +perlDreamer | I might be able to close this but out before the release then | 06:59 |
| @rizen | he has class at 4:30 eastern, so i'm guessing before that | 06:59 |
| +perlDreamer | that's 1:30 my time | 06:59 |
| +perlDreamer | close | 06:59 |
| @rizen | yeah...but that's when he goes to class | 07:00 |
| @rizen | so he'll start on it way before that | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 07:00 |
| @snapcount | ok Colin | 07:00 |
| @rizen | figure that if you don't get it in before you close up tonight | 07:00 |
| @rizen | you won't get it in | 07:00 |
| @snapcount | we're not communimicating | 07:00 |
| @snapcount | you're example works just fine | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | it does, we should patch the template though | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | wait, it does? | 07:00 |
| @snapcount | yes | 07:00 |
| @snapcount | I just tried it | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I should stick to perl | 07:00 |
| @snapcount | I used qq{} though | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | what time is release tomorrow? | 07:01 |
| @snapcount | my $two = 2; | 07:01 |
| @snapcount | $var{'somejavascript'} = qq{var one="one"; var two=$two; alert(one+"---"+two);}; | 07:01 |
| @snapcount | then wrap that template var in <script> tags | 07:01 |
| @snapcount | when I view the article, I see an alert with "one---2" | 07:02 |
| @snapcount | is that not what you want? | 07:02 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 07:02 |
| @snapcount | qq escapes the quotes in perl so they are actually rendered to the js | 07:02 |
| @snapcount | w/o you having to backslash them | 07:03 |
| +perlDreamer | right, and then you're saying the escape="JS" won't mess it up any further. | 07:03 |
| @snapcount | oh I don't know | 07:03 |
| @snapcount | didn't use escape on the tmpl var | 07:03 |
| @snapcount | no need to right? | 07:03 |
| @snapcount | it's already escaped | 07:03 |
| @snapcount | I'm kind of stupid about this | 07:03 |
| @snapcount | so I'm trying to learn | 07:03 |
| @snapcount | in my template I used <script><tmpl_var somejavascript></script> | 07:04 |
| +perlDreamer | change the tmpl_var to this: <tmpl_var somejavascript escape="JS"> | 07:05 |
| @snapcount | why would you want to do that? | 07:05 |
| @snapcount | un-dumb me | 07:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, question for anybody on a set of choices and which one is best? I'm working on the template here: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2204 | 07:05 |
| @snapcount | in case the $two variable had some quoted text in it? | 07:05 |
| +perlDreamer | right | 07:06 |
| @snapcount | the light is flickering | 07:06 |
| @snapcount | not sure if it's about to come on or burn out =) | 07:06 |
| PedersenMJ | In the upper right is a list of "sister sites". It's slightly complex html (not very, to be sure, but slightly). Should I use a snippet to store the list, or should I use a data form to store the list? | 07:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I may be completely wrong | 07:06 |
| @snapcount | well at least you're not clueless =P | 07:06 |
| @rizen | snippet | 07:06 |
| @rizen | definitely not dataform | 07:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Thought so. Just will have to make it as clear as possible to potential editors what they need to do to maintain that list. | 07:07 |
| @snapcount | ok the light is on | 07:08 |
| +perlDreamer | did that break it? | 07:09 |
| @snapcount | changing $two = qq{Lincoln said "four score and seven years ago" and some other stuff}; | 07:09 |
| @snapcount | breaks it quite nicely | 07:09 |
| @snapcount | escaping it in the template also escapes the quotes that define the js variable | 07:09 |
| @snapcount | which also breaks it | 07:09 |
| @snapcount | I get the problem now at least =) | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | but like JT was saying earlier, we shouldn't be creating JS in the core unless it's unavoidable | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | we should pass template vars into JS in the template | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | in which case escape="JS" works great. | 07:10 |
| @rizen | holy crap i rock | 07:10 |
| @snapcount | sure... but I think it's crappy to have JS in a template... my arguments for that suck and it's an opinion though | 07:10 |
| @rizen | or at least i did many months ago | 07:11 |
| @rizen | when i wrote the asset api | 07:11 |
| +perlDreamer | well, it _is_ something that users can mess up | 07:11 |
| @snapcount | b/c templating is kind of a language so saying "no code in the template" is kind of stupid | 07:11 |
| @snapcount | that's what I don't like, especially because it can render something unusable | 07:11 |
| @snapcount | but so can fucking up the template | 07:11 |
| @snapcount | so again, argument sucketh | 07:11 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: what's the good news? | 07:13 |
| @snapcount | I guess I see templates as controlling UI appearance only and not including stuff that's required for the app to function. But in most cases js is used for display purposes and not functionality | 07:13 |
| @snapcount | also, you could make the same argument that JS doesn't belong in Perl code | 07:14 |
| @snapcount | I guess it boils down to JT is right | 07:14 |
| @snapcount | sigh* | 07:14 |
| @rizen | what is the sigh for? | 07:14 |
| @snapcount | you're right and I can't think of a better way and I'm pouting | 07:15 |
| @snapcount | =) | 07:15 |
| @rizen | that's why i'm the don and youre only a wiseguy | 07:15 |
| @snapcount | indeed | 07:15 |
| @rizen | someday you'll put a hit on me | 07:16 |
| @rizen | and become the don | 07:16 |
| PedersenMJ | That reminds me... Is it time for me to invite you over for dinner sometime? | 07:16 |
| @snapcount | It's not easy being the The special assistant to the Executive Vice-Janitor | 07:16 |
| @snapcount | Valentines Day is coming up | 07:16 |
| @snapcount | that's a good day to off mob bosses | 07:16 |
| @rizen | nor is it easy to be the wearer of hats, bearer of none | 07:16 |
| @snapcount | heh | 07:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I committed the template, so don't worry about me for the release | 07:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Radix, are you around at all right now? I seem to recall your working on something else I was looking for (namely, how to highlight the currently selected page in the navigation). | 07:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Or at least highlighting the first item only in the current navigation. | 07:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I feel like I'm astroturfing the changelog | 07:18 |
| @snapcount | PedersenMJ: what do you need help with? | 07:18 |
| @rizen | astroturfing the change log? | 07:19 |
| @snapcount | You can use the isCurrentPage tmpl variable to set a class in a span tag to do that | 07:19 |
| @snapcount | I think that's the name of the variable anyways | 07:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Same design as I mentioned above. I thought I remembered seeing somebody (and thought it was Radix) trying to highlight just a specific item in the ... Okay, gimme a sec. | 07:20 |
| @snapcount | it's in the nav help for navigation template vars | 07:20 |
| +perlDreamer | I noticed that some guys sign the changelog with name/company | 07:20 |
| +perlDreamer | so I started doing it, too | 07:20 |
| @snapcount | <span <tmpl_if isCurrentPage>class='highlight'></tmpl_if> | 07:20 |
| +perlDreamer | my company name is long.... | 07:20 |
| +perlDreamer | so it stands out | 07:20 |
| @rizen | so? | 07:21 |
| +perlDreamer | as long as y'all are okay with it | 07:21 |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ, someone wanted to highlight all items at the top level | 07:22 |
| @rizen | i'm not ok with "y'all" | 07:22 |
| @snapcount | You should name your company "Perl Dreamer's Association of associated thoughts and references that are usually puzzling and always genius for the solving of complex problems in the language of thy camel our lord as spoken by WebGUI the savior of all things cool" | 07:22 |
| @snapcount | .com | 07:22 |
| @rizen | i have rescinded that word | 07:22 |
| PedersenMJ | No, snapcount had exactly what I was looking for. | 07:22 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, okay | 07:23 |
| +perlDreamer | cool | 07:23 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll just use vosotros instead | 07:23 |
| +perlDreamer | that's spanish for *'all | 07:23 |
| PedersenMJ | perlDreamer: Go with "vos." for short (as close as you can get to y'all in Spanish as possible, I think :) | 07:23 |
| @rizen | at first i wasn't ok with yall | 07:24 |
| @snapcount | actually PedersenMJ it would be <span <tmpl_if isCurrentPage>class='highlight'</tmpl_if>> | 07:24 |
| @rizen | because it's like using "utilize" instead of "use" | 07:24 |
| @snapcount | I had that closing > for the span in the wrong place | 07:24 |
| @rizen | there's just no need | 07:24 |
| PedersenMJ | snapcount: Thank you. I think I can see this theme starting to come together, mentally. This one will be noticeably more complex than Burned, and better because of it. Should showcase some of what webgui can do with templates a bit better. | 07:24 |
| @snapcount | excellent | 07:25 |
| @snapcount | I appreciate you doing this | 07:25 |
| @rizen | but then i changed my mind and decided that "you all" could be used to make sure the crowd knows you're talking to all of them | 07:25 |
| @snapcount | it will be great for the community | 07:25 |
| @rizen | but then i heard some southerners using yall in place of the singular form of you | 07:25 |
| @rizen | and once again decided that yall shouldn't ever be used | 07:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, snapcount, I'll admit it: This is fun for me. Not quite like learning a programming language, to be sure, but similar enough to make me happy. | 07:26 |
| Radix-wrk | So I guess that would be a no for changing the 'Everyone' group to 'Y'all' then. | 07:26 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot help | 07:26 |
| perlbot | (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip) | 07:26 |
| @snapcount | the redneck translation should | 07:26 |
| +perlDreamer | learn pDC as Perl Dreamer's Association of associated thoughts and references that are usually puzzling and always genius for the solving of complex problems in the language of thy camel our lord as spoken by WebGUI the savior of all things cool | 07:27 |
| @snapcount | too bad group names are not i18n | 07:27 |
| @snapcount | =D | 07:27 |
| Radix-wrk | heh | 07:27 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot learn pDC as Perl Dreamer's Association of associated thoughts and references that are usually puzzling and always genius for the solving of complex problems in the language of thy camel our lord as spoken by WebGUI the savior of all things cool | 07:27 |
| perlbot | added pDC to the database | 07:27 |
| @snapcount | sweet! | 07:27 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: we can fix that | 07:27 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer: i have officially committed my first WBP change | 07:27 |
| +perlDreamer | cool! | 07:28 |
| @rizen | yay! | 07:28 |
| @snapcount | what is it? | 07:28 |
| +perlDreamer | but now I have to work harder | 07:28 |
| @snapcount | that checker thingy that enforces the rules? | 07:28 |
| @snapcount | what was it called? | 07:28 |
| PedersenMJ | If you check out the url for that preview, I'm still working out one detail, and that's the paragraph on the left side of the graphic. I'm not sure what, if anything, I should do with that. | 07:28 |
| @rizen | depricated WebGUI::Util::randomizeArray in favor of List::Util::scalar | 07:28 |
| @snapcount | that brings up an old lingering question | 07:29 |
| @snapcount | why is there a randomize hash function in there | 07:29 |
| @snapcount | aren't hashes by definition, random? | 07:29 |
| @snapcount | or is that unreliable? | 07:29 |
| @rizen | they aren't truely random | 07:29 |
| @rizen | they are just disjointed | 07:29 |
| @rizen | but regardless | 07:29 |
| @snapcount | now that would be ironic... you can't rely on a hash to be consistent or random | 07:29 |
| @snapcount | sweet | 07:29 |
| @rizen | it was to randomize a hash that was tied to ixhash | 07:29 |
| @snapcount | hash ordering rather | 07:30 |
| @snapcount | oh I see | 07:30 |
| @rizen | but it's no longer needed | 07:30 |
| @rizen | and can be depricated as well | 07:30 |
| @snapcount | PedersenMJ: post the link again pls | 07:30 |
| Radix-wrk | PedersenMJ, what url? | 07:30 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2204 | 07:31 |
| @snapcount | well your design just includes styling not content right? | 07:32 |
| @snapcount | so you would simply have another article template you put in your package that made the article look like that | 07:32 |
| PedersenMJ | True, it does. I almost feel like I should put an article there telling people to put something there, which seems quite obnoxious on my part. | 07:33 |
| @snapcount | is that what you meant by "what to do with it"? | 07:33 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, that's it exactly. | 07:33 |
| @snapcount | If you do include content... replace all the text with lorem ipsum | 07:33 |
| @snapcount | assuming the terms of the design allow that | 07:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, perfectly fair thing to do: Post what it is, and where I got it, and let them change that as they see fit. | 07:34 |
| @snapcount | it may not be a bad idea to include articles in the package for one page to show what it looks like I guess | 07:34 |
| @snapcount | I don't know | 07:34 |
| @snapcount | easy enough to delete them... perhaps you could just stuff the design with the same content the other wG styles come with | 07:35 |
| @snapcount | that would really get the point across | 07:35 |
| @rizen | i'm going to /kickban every user that doesn't respond in the next 2.3 seconds | 07:35 |
| PedersenMJ | For this one, I'm already going to make them do some customization. For instance, the "Site Network" links in the upper right are going to have to be different. | 07:35 |
| @rizen | that's it, you're all kicked | 07:35 |
| @snapcount | idlers are good | 07:35 |
| @snapcount | make us look bigger =) | 07:36 |
| PedersenMJ | And we all know that size is what matters. | 07:36 |
| @rizen | we don't want to be those guys | 07:36 |
| @snapcount | come on | 07:36 |
| @snapcount | this is a popularity contest | 07:36 |
| @snapcount | most come right back anyway | 07:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I think the filter stuff is better than the shuffle | 07:36 |
| -!- perlbot was kicked from #webgui by snapcount [go get it boy!] | 07:36 | |
| -!- perlbot [n=perlbot@lv.pm.org] has joined #webgui | 07:36 | |
| @snapcount | see | 07:36 |
| +perlDreamer | it's like a boomerang | 07:36 |
| @rizen | there's no one talking on the joomla channel | 07:37 |
| @rizen | just 80 idlers | 07:37 |
| @rizen | no one on the opencms channel | 07:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Can't blame them. I've looked at joomla. Tried to use it. Figured out only one thing about it: It might be great for some people, but I can't do more with it than start it up. | 07:37 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what most people say about wG | 07:38 |
| @snapcount | PedersenMJ: I think it would be sweet if you did your designs using the default content | 07:38 |
| PedersenMJ | And even though there might be power inside of it, I can't see any evidence of said power. | 07:38 |
| @snapcount | that's just my opinion though | 07:38 |
| @snapcount | I'm just glad you're doing it. period =) | 07:38 |
| @rizen | whoa...lots of idle peeps on drupal channel too | 07:38 |
| @snapcount | I was pissed b/c drupal made diggs front page for their v5 release and 6th birthday | 07:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, I could do two versions of the package: One with nothing in it, for people who already know what they're getting/want, one with the default content to allow people to see what webgui could look like. | 07:39 |
| @rizen | wow...even more on plone not talking | 07:39 |
| +perlDreamer | g'night, all | 07:39 |
| @snapcount | when I submitted our 7.0 relase / bday we got 3 digs | 07:39 |
| @rizen | later | 07:39 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""""] | 07:39 | |
| PedersenMJ | later, pD | 07:39 |
| @snapcount | PedersenMJ: that's a good idea | 07:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Hmmm... thought there: Even without intending, I might be gaming the karma system a bit by doing that. | 07:40 |
| @snapcount | just more work for you | 07:40 |
| @snapcount | how? | 07:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, it's two separate uploads. From uploading burned, I see that I got 10 karma. | 07:41 |
| PedersenMJ | It could result in double downloads, which I *think* also generate karma. | 07:41 |
| @snapcount | no... you only get karma for posts unless rizen slipped a new feature in or I didn't notice | 07:41 |
| PedersenMJ | Despite using you guys shamelessly for your knowledge of the system, I'm not trying to game the systems you make in my favor. | 07:42 |
| @snapcount | our knowledge to you is an investment | 07:42 |
| @snapcount | one that is paying off already through your contributions | 07:42 |
| @snapcount | for all of us | 07:42 |
| @snapcount | we are completely ok with that | 07:42 |
| @snapcount | and encourage it | 07:42 |
| PedersenMJ | Good. I'm glad to help. I *like* this package, quite a bit. | 07:43 |
| @snapcount | that's the beauty of community | 07:43 |
| @snapcount | I would also hope that you share the knowledge you are gaining when others want to contribute | 07:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Funny thing is, I wish I'd found wg a year ago. Might have gotten you guys a pretty decent contract. And have gotten to avoid the crap I'm dealing with at work now. | 07:44 |
| @snapcount | wG was in a weird place a year ago | 07:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Absolutely! perlm looks like he'll be developing his own template, actually, partially because myself and somebody else (not just rizen) pointed out to him how easy it was today. | 07:45 |
| @snapcount | not the same software really | 07:45 |
| @snapcount | excellent | 07:45 |
| @snapcount | you may not have thought so highly of us a year ago =/ | 07:45 |
| @snapcount | unless you used v5.x | 07:45 |
| @snapcount | oh rizen | 07:46 |
| PedersenMJ | And I'm planning on tracking the changes of an existing template to a package, and posting that as a "how to build a style" on the wiki. Unless you guys don't want that. | 07:46 |
| @snapcount | that iPhoneGuy is maxscience | 07:46 |
| @snapcount | I know it is | 07:46 |
| @snapcount | of course we want that | 07:46 |
| @rizen | nice | 07:46 |
| @rizen | i said that the first day he was on there | 07:47 |
| @rizen | and frank said "no, couldn't be" | 07:47 |
| @snapcount | he seems to have changed his attitude a bit though | 07:47 |
| @snapcount | I wasn't sure at first either | 07:47 |
| @snapcount | but the questions he was asking gave him away | 07:47 |
| @snapcount | all the same questions he asked before, pushing the same feature requests, etc | 07:47 |
| @snapcount | same arguments | 07:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool. I don't think this Andreas02 is the right one. It adds more complexity than is needed, as I'll have a snippet (possibly two), some conditionals in the template, etc. Nor, necessarily, is MultiFlex, as it's got several options to work through. I'll find it after I finish those two, though. | 07:48 |
| @snapcount | Soon, you should get karma for wiki posts | 07:48 |
| @snapcount | I have to post the RFE for that | 07:48 |
| @snapcount | that oswd site is where I got my style from for my personal site | 07:49 |
| @snapcount | and how I learned to implement a wG style | 07:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh. I'm not even gunning for karma. BTW, you might want to look into mine. Somehow, I'm at 32. And I don't think I've done enough to get that. Yes, I know it's pathetically small, but there might be something in how I got that that could be gamed by someone else. | 07:50 |
| @snapcount | most use a <div> based layout which makes it pretty easy once you get your head wrapped around the general ideas of wG | 07:50 |
| @snapcount | that's not much | 07:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, they really are an easy conversion. It only gets complex if you let it. I'm going to let it for the Andreas02. | 07:50 |
| @snapcount | I think you get two or three points for every post to a regular forum | 07:50 |
| @snapcount | a lot of our users have thousands of karma points so you're getting what's due to you | 07:51 |
| @snapcount | and you gaining more karma also works in our favor too | 07:51 |
| @snapcount | the more involved you are, the more you know about wG generally speaking | 07:51 |
| @snapcount | that means you will have more influence | 07:51 |
| PedersenMJ | You're right, it's not much. But, somehow, I've gotten more than I think I was supposed to. For instance, here's what I *know* of: buying wdr, posting one wiki article, updating it, posting one wgpkg, and updating it. | 07:52 |
| @snapcount | which is probably good because you will be smarter in what you ask for | 07:52 |
| @snapcount | and what you advocate as far as RFEs and spending your karma on them | 07:52 |
| @snapcount | you can also get karma when people rate your posts | 07:52 |
| @snapcount | that actually transfers karma from them to you | 07:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, okay. Now that makes sense (I knew I had more when I woke up than when I went to bed). | 07:53 |
| PedersenMJ | I suppose I am watching it, yeah. More because I'm hoping to see people download the Burned theme, though, than anything else. | 07:55 |
| @snapcount | I'm glad you've taken an interest in this | 07:55 |
| @snapcount | we had quite a few themes in the 5.x days | 07:55 |
| @snapcount | and it's something we really wanted to see from the community now that 7.x is here | 07:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, as I said, it's fun for me. Might even work on doing a custom login template, now that I know that can be done. | 07:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Might also work on a script to convert moinmoin data into wg-wiki. | 07:58 |
| PedersenMJ | If I did that, I'd have a site that my friends would go nuts over in nochara.org. We've got our own RPG gaming group, and part of Nochara is based on that. We also make fairly heavy use of a moinmoin wiki. | 07:59 |
| @snapcount | well if I'm around I'd be glad to help you writing that | 08:02 |
| @snapcount | if it's something you would contribute | 08:02 |
| @rizen | i've been watching videos and presentations from other systems out there | 08:02 |
| @snapcount | the people on the dev list will help you too | 08:02 |
| @rizen | and am realizing how far ahead of the curve webgui is | 08:02 |
| @snapcount | indeed, the challenge is getting everyone else to realize that =) | 08:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Hell yes, I'd contribute that. There's no reason (and no benefit) to keeping it private. | 08:02 |
| @snapcount | I'm kind of fond of utility scripts | 08:03 |
| @snapcount | and they are a great way for you to learn the API | 08:03 |
| PedersenMJ | JT, wg isn't just ahead of the curve. It's lapped the other systems. | 08:03 |
| @snapcount | they are fun to write imo | 08:03 |
| PedersenMJ | You can use *just* the web browser, and get amazing functionality, without having to touch a line of code or shell script. | 08:03 |
| @snapcount | tell your friends =) | 08:04 |
| @snapcount | spread the love man | 08:04 |
| @snapcount | lol | 08:04 |
| @snapcount | rizen have you ever used the FileMerge program that comes with os x dev tools | 08:05 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm trying to *show*, not tell. Hence the need to make themes. Once I get even a few of the fairly complex ones under my belt, and show that there's very little to them... I think it'll be pretty easy to convince people. | 08:05 |
| @snapcount | it's pretty damn cool | 08:05 |
| @rizen | nope | 08:05 |
| @snapcount | it's a graphical diff tool | 08:05 |
| @rizen | what is it for? | 08:05 |
| @rizen | oh | 08:05 |
| @snapcount | really sweet | 08:05 |
| @snapcount | no bullshit just works | 08:05 |
| @snapcount | but very nice graphical display | 08:05 |
| @snapcount | typical Apple =) | 08:05 |
| @snapcount | I needed somthing to diff templates in head... one was for 7.3.4 and the other 7.3.5 | 08:06 |
| @snapcount | since they are different files, I couldn't use our svn site | 08:07 |
| Radix-wrk | 60000 myspace.com accounts compromised: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2007/01/myspace_phishers_hook_hundreds.html | 08:11 |
| Radix-wrk | most popular password was 'password1' | 08:12 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, time for me to hit the sack folks. G'night! | 08:17 |
| @snapcount | good night | 08:17 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 08:17 | |
| -!- perlbot was kicked from #webgui by rizen [rizen] | 08:49 | |
| -!- perlbot [n=perlbot@lv.pm.org] has joined #webgui | 08:49 | |
| -!- perlbot was kicked from #webgui by rizen [rizen] | 08:49 | |
| -!- perlbot [n=perlbot@lv.pm.org] has joined #webgui | 08:49 | |
| @rizen | that's cool | 08:49 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlbot] by rizen | 08:49 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-o perlbot] by rizen | 08:50 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-v perlbot] by rizen | 08:50 | |
| @snapcount | eh? | 08:58 |
| @snapcount | remembering how to run an irc channel eh? | 08:59 |
| @rizen | sort of | 08:59 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by snapcount | 08:59 | |
| +snapcount | can I talk | 09:00 |
| +snapcount | damn it | 09:00 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 09:00 | |
| @snapcount | the freenode chanserv is being tricky | 09:01 |
| * snapcount scratches his head | 09:06 | |
| @snapcount | ahh | 09:07 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+m] by snapcount | 09:07 | |
| @snapcount | I can talk | 09:07 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by snapcount | 09:07 | |
| +snapcount | now i cant | 09:07 |
| +snapcount | or can I | 09:07 |
| +snapcount | oh I'm voiced | 09:08 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 09:08 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-v snapcount] by snapcount | 09:08 | |
| @snapcount | now I cant | 09:08 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by rizen | 09:08 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 09:09 | |
| @snapcount | that worked | 09:09 |
| @snapcount | weird | 09:09 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-m] by snapcount | 09:09 | |
| Radix-wrk | Now I can talk | 09:09 |
| @snapcount | so it's /mode #webgui +m | 09:09 |
| @snapcount | to turn it on and -m to turn it off | 09:09 |
| @snapcount | not +-v | 09:09 |
| @snapcount | huh | 09:11 |
| @snapcount | +z looks interesting too | 09:11 |
| @snapcount | When +z is set, the effects of +b, +q, and +m are relaxed. For each message, if that message would normally be blocked by one of these modes, it is instead sent to all the users who are currently set +o (channel operator). This is intended for use in moderated debates. | 09:11 |
| @snapcount | maybe one day there will be enough people in here that we actually care about that feature lol | 09:12 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by rizen | 09:13 | |
| @rizen | i'm not actually using the mode command | 09:13 |
| @rizen | i'm using the shortcutts | 09:13 |
| snapcount | oh does your client have them built in | 09:13 |
| @rizen | such as /op /voice /deop | 09:13 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v snapcount] by rizen | 09:14 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by rizen | 09:14 | |
| @snapcount | I wonder if freenode implements those or if it's your client | 09:14 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by snapcount | 09:14 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 09:14 | |
| @rizen | try it | 09:15 |
| @snapcount | some are working | 09:15 |
| @snapcount | what do you use to remove voice? | 09:15 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v snapcount] by rizen | 09:15 | |
| @snapcount | devoice and unvoice don't work for me | 09:15 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-v snapcount] by rizen | 09:15 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by rizen | 09:16 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v snapcount] by rizen | 09:16 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-v snapcount] by rizen | 09:16 | |
| @rizen | devoice | 09:16 |
| @rizen | works for me | 09:16 |
| snapcount | ok | 09:16 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by rizen | 09:16 | |
| @snapcount | so it must be the client | 09:16 |
| @rizen | i just rule | 09:16 |
| @rizen | that's all | 09:16 |
| @snapcount | mine supports most of those commands | 09:16 |
| @snapcount | you can also use the chanserv to reop you | 09:16 |
| @snapcount | do /cs op #webgui | 09:16 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-o rizen] by snapcount | 09:17 | |
| @snapcount | see now you're screwed w/o the chanserv | 09:17 |
| @snapcount | or another op | 09:17 |
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| @rizen | screwed my ass | 09:17 |
| @snapcount | chanserv did that for you | 09:17 |
| @rizen | i know | 09:17 |
| Radix-wrk | Chanserv is known to do that | 09:18 |
| @snapcount | I was saying you don't have to leave and come back is all | 09:18 |
| @rizen | if i kickban you | 09:18 |
| @rizen | how do i let you back in? | 09:18 |
| @snapcount | I don't know | 09:18 |
| @snapcount | I know how to unban myself | 09:18 |
| @snapcount | with chanserv | 09:19 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-b snapcount!*@*] by rizen | 09:19 | |
| @snapcount | there you go | 09:19 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+b snapcount!*@*] by rizen | 09:19 | |
| -!- snapcount was kicked from #webgui by rizen [rizen] | 09:19 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-b snapcount!*@*] by ChanServ | 09:19 | |
| @rizen | should i let him back in? | 09:19 |
| Radix-wrk | Can't you bring up the ban list? | 09:19 |
| @rizen | crap | 09:19 |
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| @rizen | he unbaned himself | 09:19 |
| @snapcount | tada | 09:19 |
| @rizen | that sux | 09:19 |
| @snapcount | guess we should know how to do that stuff | 09:20 |
| @rizen | the /unban command works if you have ops | 09:20 |
| @snapcount | my client doesn't seem to have an unban | 09:21 |
| @snapcount | but it does have ban and kick ban | 09:21 |
| @snapcount | kind of stupid | 09:21 |
| Radix-wrk | what client? | 09:21 |
| @snapcount | Snak | 09:21 |
| @rizen | i use Colloquy | 09:21 |
| Radix-wrk | snak for macintosh 5.1.5 | 09:21 |
| @snapcount | it's entirely possible it can do it and I'm too dumb to know how =) | 09:22 |
| @rizen | or you could just use colloquy and then you don't need to know magic | 09:22 |
| @snapcount | it doesn't run so great on intel macs | 09:22 |
| @snapcount | it was crashing on me quite a bit | 09:22 |
| @rizen | you're a dork | 09:22 |
| @snapcount | but that was a couple months ago | 09:22 |
| @snapcount | maybe there is a newer version out | 09:23 |
| @snapcount | have you switched to the intel mac? | 09:23 |
| @rizen | nope | 09:23 |
| @snapcount | ah ok | 09:23 |
| @rizen | i'm going to give it to frank once i have wre working on it | 09:23 |
| @snapcount | that should be interesting | 09:23 |
| @snapcount | he bleeds windows | 09:24 |
| @rizen | yup | 09:24 |
| @snapcount | lots of whining will ensue I'm sure | 09:24 |
| @rizen | if he doesn't completely switch from his windows box to the mac within 1 month | 09:24 |
| @rizen | i'm taking it back | 09:24 |
| @rizen | and giving it to vrby | 09:24 |
| @snapcount | I was very surprised how easy it was to pick up os x | 09:24 |
| @snapcount | vrby would do fine with it | 09:25 |
| @snapcount | but he's used one before anyways | 09:25 |
| @snapcount | how did Kristi do? | 09:25 |
| @rizen | with what? | 09:25 |
| @snapcount | when she got her mac | 09:26 |
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| @rizen | very well | 09:26 |
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| @snapcount | had she used one before or no? | 09:26 |
| @rizen | i don't think so | 09:26 |
| @rizen | but she's a smart girl | 09:26 |
| @snapcount | heh | 09:26 |
| @snapcount | that's been my impression thus far | 09:26 |
| @rizen | i try not to hire stupid people | 09:26 |
| @snapcount | she can write crap pretty fast | 09:26 |
| @rizen | though i sort of screwed up when i hired you | 09:26 |
| @rizen | =) | 09:26 |
| @snapcount | ouch | 09:26 |
| @rizen | i was tricked | 09:26 |
| @snapcount | every one makes mistakes, don't be so hard on yourself | 09:27 |
| @rizen | hehe | 09:27 |
| Radix-wrk | is there an xchat port for osx? | 09:30 |
| @rizen | yes | 09:31 |
| @rizen | but xchat sux | 09:31 |
| @rizen | i mean, not as much as snapcount sux | 09:31 |
| @rizen | but it sucks pretty bad | 09:31 |
| @rizen | ok...i should stop being mean | 09:32 |
| @rizen | cuz that makes me suck | 09:32 |
| @rizen | i really just need to go to bed now | 09:32 |
| @rizen | bye | 09:32 |
| @rizen | cruel | 09:32 |
| @rizen | world | 09:32 |
| Radix-wrk | computer says no | 09:33 |
| Radix-wrk | xchat has perl scripting support tho :) | 09:45 |
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| @rizen | MrHairgrease, its time to battle to the death | 17:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | why is that | 17:19 |
| @rizen | because you did the opposite of what i asked you to do | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | really? | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | what is that? | 17:20 |
| @rizen | i said when 7.4 branches, you could check in your shopping cart code | 17:20 |
| @rizen | but you checked it in to 7.3 | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 17:20 |
| @rizen | no what? | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | you said to do the shoppingcart thingy | 17:20 |
| @rizen | i have the irc log if you'd like to see it | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | and I could scheck in the plugin into 7.4 | 17:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | me too =) | 17:21 |
| @rizen | k then, look it up | 17:21 |
| @rizen | no new features are allowed into a release after the .0 release | 17:21 |
| @rizen | ever | 17:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | (07:27:50 PM) rizen: but yeah, go ahead and add it | 17:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | (07:28:09 PM) MrHairgrease: http://rafb.net/p/IXwBk521.html | 17:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | (07:28:09 PM) rizen: feel free to commit your dynamic item in 7.4 once branched as wel | 17:21 |
| @rizen | it says it right there | 17:22 |
| @rizen | after 7.4 | 17:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | hmm | 17:22 |
| @rizen | and above that in the conversation | 17:22 |
| @rizen | it also says 7.4 | 17:22 |
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| @rizen | anyway | 17:22 |
| @rizen | don't want to argue | 17:22 |
| @rizen | it's not a big deal | 17:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | sorry | 17:22 |
| @rizen | just in the future | 17:22 |
| @rizen | no new features after the .0 release | 17:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | I did interpret i wrong | 17:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | probably | 17:23 |
| @rizen | it's quite alright | 17:23 |
| @rizen | i'm not actually mad | 17:23 |
| @rizen | i'm just trying to correct for the future | 17:23 |
| @rizen | you know? | 17:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | the item thing is not a realfeature | 17:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | and it is also not a real bug | 17:23 |
| @rizen | ok, but it's a change | 17:23 |
| @rizen | one more thing that can go wrong | 17:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | i know | 17:23 |
| @rizen | and we have enough bugs | 17:23 |
| @rizen | =) | 17:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | just barely | 17:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | I want more =) | 17:23 |
| @rizen | noooooooooo! | 17:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | ha | 17:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | got you there | 17:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'll ask iPhoneGuy if he can find some extra safari bugs | 17:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 17:24 |
| @rizen | good idea | 17:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | for you to fix of course | 17:24 |
| @rizen | i'm still convinced that iPhoneGuy = maxscience | 17:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | his english is better | 17:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | maxscience was froim italy | 17:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | iphonguy comes from some .net domain | 17:25 |
| @rizen | ok iPhoneGuy = maxscience cousin from england doing maxscience' bidding | 17:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | doesn't mean much | 17:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | but still | 17:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | i agree though | 17:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | that they must share genes =) | 17:26 |
| @rizen | so MrHairgrease, your grease of choice is Murray's Pomade right? | 17:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure | 17:38 |
| @rizen | i can't believe you'd use an inferior american product | 17:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | actually it's the exception that proves the rule | 17:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | good pomade | 17:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | but also the originating country of light beers | 17:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | but then again | 17:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | you guys invented rockabilly | 17:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | which counts for simething | 17:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 17:39 |
| @rizen | only with you man | 17:39 |
| @rizen | you're the most eclectic person i know | 17:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | thanks | 17:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | or do you just know few eal persons =) | 17:40 |
| @rizen | so it appears that Murray's Pomade was originally designed to give control to afros | 17:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | it was | 17:40 |
| @rizen | so i think i'd like to see you with an afro | 17:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | my favorite part of their website | 17:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | is the hints department | 17:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | look for the question | 17:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | 'How to remove Murray's from the hair' | 17:41 |
| @rizen | that's too funny | 17:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | my barber doesn't think so | 17:42 |
| @rizen | from the site: Murray's was originally formulated to stay in the hair, therefore, getting it out may be difficult | 17:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | and it is | 17:42 |
| @rizen | i suppose not | 17:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | whatever you try | 17:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | you never fully succeed | 17:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | but why should i care | 17:42 |
| @rizen | you could just cut off your hair | 17:42 |
| @rizen | but i suppose, if it stays in there forever | 17:43 |
| @rizen | then you can use less pomade | 17:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'll put a new layer imediately anyway | 17:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 17:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | you have to remove the stuff that's easy to removen | 17:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | i always comb murrays out when showering | 17:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | and then put a fresh layer back | 17:44 |
| @rizen | i was thinking i should be like martin and get some pomade | 17:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | or else i look like a mad scientist | 17:44 |
| @rizen | but now that i find that it's impossible to remove | 17:44 |
| @rizen | not sure | 17:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | which is not all bad | 17:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | but still | 17:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'd try it if i were you | 17:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | i was afraid too at first | 17:44 |
| @rizen | you'd try it if you were you | 17:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | but when I dicovered its power | 17:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | i was sold | 17:45 |
| @rizen | the thing is that i generally don't put anything in my hair | 17:45 |
| @rizen | i like that "clean" feeling | 17:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | hippie! | 17:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | clean and hioppie don't match | 17:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | make up your mind =) | 17:45 |
| @rizen | i don't really need pomade | 17:46 |
| @rizen | if i just didn't wash my hair every morning | 17:46 |
| @rizen | it would automatically have enough standup built in | 17:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | what has happened too you | 17:46 |
| @rizen | cuz my head seems to leak oil | 17:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | last thing i knew was | 17:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | that you hated senseless chit chat | 17:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | and here you are | 17:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | discussing hair products | 17:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | that also lube machine part btw | 17:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 17:47 |
| @rizen | i do hate senseless chit chat...but at the same time i do love our conversations | 17:47 |
| @rizen | and it's been many months since i got to chat with you | 17:47 |
| @rizen | =) | 17:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 17:47 |
| @rizen | anyway...i suppose y ou're right. back to the grindstone for me | 17:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | too bad america is so far away | 17:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | you go fix those bugs =) | 17:48 |
| @rizen | i'd live in holland if it weren't so expensive | 17:48 |
| @rizen | and in a time zone that doesn't suit my customer base | 17:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | america is just cheap | 17:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | because of the dollar/euro | 17:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | ratio | 17:48 |
| @rizen | yup | 17:48 |
| @rizen | damn euro | 17:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | when we still had the guilder i think amerika was more expensive for me | 17:49 |
| @rizen | oh...actually, speaking of that | 17:49 |
| @rizen | are you guys doing hosc again? | 17:49 |
| @rizen | do you know? | 17:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | i dunno | 17:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | but | 17:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | i believe joerie and len are gonna do a talk | 17:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | at a nllgg meeting | 17:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | nllgg = dutch linux user group | 17:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://www.buienradar.nl/ | 17:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | I can see some air again =) | 17:51 |
| ckotil | heh | 17:51 |
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| @rizen | what's your web url again for the new company? | 17:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | oqapi.nl | 17:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's a temporary style btw | 17:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | the real one is almost finished i believe | 17:52 |
| @rizen | along with some content? | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | of course | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | we make stuff | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | not content | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | well ok | 17:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | more content is on the way | 17:54 |
| @rizen | with any luck we'll get to hang out twice this year | 17:57 |
| perlm | When creating a new Template file, I need to set the namespace to "style" right? | 17:57 |
| @rizen | if i come to holand | 17:57 |
| @rizen | and if you come to the WUC | 17:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure | 17:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'll come to the wuc | 17:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | The hotel looks nice btw | 17:57 |
| @rizen | you set the namespace to whatever type you're working on | 17:57 |
| @rizen | the hotel is pretty amazing | 17:57 |
| perlm | Thanks rizen | 17:57 |
| @rizen | way better than anything we've done in the past | 17:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | i liked the hotel of the last wuc | 17:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's was so cheap that had a lot of bang for the buck | 17:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | and the bar dude was really cool | 17:58 |
| @rizen | yeah..unfortunately you can only really get that in vegas | 17:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | I don't care | 17:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm not paying anyway =) | 17:58 |
| @rizen | this year the hotel will be more expensive, but much much nicer | 17:59 |
| @rizen | and more importantly | 17:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | madison seems like a nice place | 17:59 |
| @rizen | there is a shitload of stuff to do within walking distance | 17:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | cool | 17:59 |
| @rizen | my house is actually only about 6 blocks from the hotel | 17:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | so | 17:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | why not do the wuc at your place | 18:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | it might be a bit crowded | 18:00 |
| @rizen | i'm afraid my house wouldn't hold it | 18:00 |
| @rizen | =) | 18:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | but you just call it cozy =) | 18:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | teh wuc | 18:00 |
| @rizen | i suppose if we threw out all the furniture | 18:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | providing you with all the warmth you miss elsewhere | 18:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 18:00 |
| perlm | WUC isn't in Vegas this year? | 18:05 |
| @rizen | nope | 18:06 |
| @rizen | Madison, WI | 18:06 |
| @rizen | the home town of Plain Black | 18:06 |
| @rizen | we got a lot of feedback from the surveys saying that the WUC should be moved around the country every year | 18:06 |
| @rizen | so next year it will be in Austin, TX | 18:06 |
| @rizen | preaction: are you here? | 18:07 |
| perlm | Hmm, if the WUC happens at the same time of the experimental airshow in Sheboygan, and then shoot over to Toledo for a visit. | 18:17 |
| @rizen | 2nd week of october i believe is the date | 18:19 |
| perlm | Oshkosh air show is July. I guess that gives me two excuses to visit Toledo :D | 18:20 |
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| perlm | If a style snippet includes images, should it be processed as a template and use ^FileUrl for image paths? | 18:24 |
| @rizen | no reason to process as template | 18:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | not processed as a template | 18:25 |
| @rizen | and using FileUrl is not necessary, but is better for performance | 18:25 |
| perlm | Sweet | 18:25 |
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| @rizen | Norm! | 18:28 |
| @rizen | pd, i need some processing power | 18:29 |
| @rizen | can you help me fix a bug? | 18:29 |
| +perlDreamer | let's bug fix | 18:31 |
| +perlDreamer | I was reading last night's logs | 18:31 |
| +perlDreamer | which bug shall we fix | 18:31 |
| @rizen | there is bug that was reported via the support boards, but i'm not sure it's in the bug list yet | 18:32 |
| @rizen | about rss from collaboration system | 18:32 |
| @rizen | crap | 18:32 |
| +perlDreamer | there's at least one of those on the bug list | 18:32 |
| @rizen | crapp...phone call | 18:33 |
| @rizen | ok...back | 18:35 |
| @rizen | crap | 18:35 |
| @rizen | phone | 18:35 |
| @rizen | ok | 18:37 |
| @rizen | back | 18:37 |
| @rizen | anyway..doug sent me an email saying that line 675 of the Collaboration.pm | 18:37 |
| @rizen | is returning a scalar | 18:37 |
| @rizen | and that's why the RSS feeds aren't working from the collaboration system | 18:37 |
| @rizen | cuz it's supposed to be returning an array reference | 18:38 |
| @rizen | or an array | 18:38 |
| @rizen | i have to find out which | 18:38 |
| @rizen | however, rss feeds do appear to be working on our site | 18:38 |
| @rizen | so it has to be a special case | 18:38 |
| @rizen | now the code that is there is completely unmaintainable | 18:38 |
| perlm | I just committed my style information and it has all disapeared. Ouch. | 18:38 |
| @rizen | and i'm working to clean it up | 18:39 |
| @rizen | in fact, i should commit what i've cleaned up so far | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll have a look at that line | 18:39 |
| @rizen | ok | 18:39 |
| @rizen | committed | 18:39 |
| @rizen | i haven't gotten very far in my cleanup | 18:40 |
| @rizen | cuz i don't want to accidentally change the meaning of the code | 18:40 |
| @rizen | until i completely understand it | 18:40 |
| @rizen | so i'm just changing a little syntax and formatting to make it more readable | 18:40 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not line 675 anymore, after the clean-up :) | 18:41 |
| @rizen | right, it's 677 or something | 18:41 |
| @rizen | the return statement | 18:41 |
| @rizen | on the map | 18:41 |
| @rizen | that's what he said is causing a problem | 18:41 |
| @rizen | anyway..he's not around yet | 18:41 |
| @rizen | and the guy that wrote it doesn't work here anymore | 18:41 |
| @rizen | so i'm trying to decipher why he thinks it's returning a scalar | 18:42 |
| +perlDreamer | this code does not appear to be called by anything | 18:43 |
| @khenn | I'm writing an app which mimic's WebUGI's user management system and I'm wondering how I should post the data | 18:44 |
| @khenn | one options is to simply set each field individually to the user profile | 18:45 |
| @khenn | $u->profileField($form->get("")); | 18:45 |
| @khenn | but | 18:45 |
| @khenn | I was also thinking that I could get a list of all the available fields from userProfileField | 18:45 |
| @khenn | loop through the form hash | 18:45 |
| @rizen | phone | 18:45 |
| @khenn | and if the formElement matches | 18:46 |
| @khenn | then set it | 18:46 |
| @khenn | that way I don't have to individually code each element | 18:46 |
| @khenn | thoughts? | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | profile fields can be changed by the Admins on the site, so I'd say go the automated route | 18:47 |
| @khenn | you mean the manual route | 18:47 |
| @khenn | that's probably a good idea | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | no, I mean the automated route | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | have the system tell you which fields exist | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | and then loop | 18:48 |
| @khenn | problem being, if an admin changes the name of something | 18:48 |
| @khenn | the formName | 18:48 |
| @khenn | it would break my code | 18:48 |
| @khenn | if I manually map them, there is no chance of that happening | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | does that happen in wG's user management system as well? | 18:48 |
| @khenn | don't know | 18:48 |
| @khenn | this is a seperate asset | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | I just mean that if wG can do it, then the asset could too | 18:49 |
| @khenn | and adding a new field to the user profile doesn't affect this thing | 18:49 |
| @khenn | b/c it's got a special format | 18:49 |
| @khenn | it's a custom enviornment | 18:50 |
| @khenn | so I guess it counts on these things being there anyway | 18:50 |
| @khenn | nmm | 18:50 |
| @khenn | hmm | 18:50 |
| @khenn | maybe automated is the way to go | 18:50 |
| @khenn | I don't think you can change the name of a field once you've created it anyway | 18:51 |
| +perlDreamer | it's been a long time since I've been in that part of the code. | 18:51 |
| @rizen | automated is the only way to go | 18:51 |
| @khenn | my only drawback to automated is that for each form parameter, it has to loop through an array of profile fields to determine if the parameter isIn the array | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: whether or not getRssItems returns a scalar is irrelevant | 18:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | gota go | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | the return value is assigned to an array | 18:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | later | 18:53 |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] | 18:53 | |
| @rizen | khenn | 18:53 |
| @rizen | don't use isIn | 18:53 |
| @rizen | create a hash of all the fields | 18:53 |
| @rizen | then you can do | 18:53 |
| @khenn | and check the hash | 18:53 |
| @khenn | right | 18:53 |
| @rizen | if ($hash{key}) | 18:53 |
| @khenn | check the key | 18:53 |
| @khenn | that's a good idea | 18:53 |
| * khenn takes the ball and runs | 18:54 | |
| @rizen | pd: why is it irrelevant? | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | @items = getRssItems(); | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | if it returns a scalar, then @items gets 1 thing | 18:54 |
| @rizen | ah | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | if it returns a list, @items get all things | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not a reference | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | kathy wants to know if they have snow days in Illinois and Wisconsin | 18:55 |
| ckotil | yes | 18:56 |
| @rizen | indeed | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | we have 2 inches of snow and all the schools are closed | 18:56 |
| @rizen | ok, i've got a login on the client's site that reported this | 18:56 |
| @rizen | i'm going to see if they just did a template wrong or something | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 18:56 |
| @rizen | ok i'm seeing the problem | 19:00 |
| @rizen | maybe | 19:00 |
| @rizen | it appears that the main list isn't the problem | 19:01 |
| @rizen | it's the second map | 19:01 |
| @rizen | with the attachments | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | attachmentLoop is an array ref | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 19:02 |
| @rizen | or it's undef | 19:02 |
| +perlDreamer | that's bad | 19:02 |
| @rizen | right | 19:02 |
| +perlDreamer | should be []? | 19:02 |
| @rizen | yup | 19:02 |
| @rizen | so that's one bug | 19:02 |
| @rizen | but there's something else | 19:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I think the parens in there might be a problem, too | 19:03 |
| @rizen | cuz it doesn't work | 19:03 |
| @rizen | i've done a little more formatting | 19:05 |
| perlm | Can someone tell me why this isn't working. <img src="^FileURL(casr-style-1/images/ou-logo-sm.gif);" Where casr-style-1 is the top level directory under Root->Import Nodes. | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | perlm: if it isn't working, then check that URL manually | 19:05 |
| @rizen | checking in | 19:06 |
| @rizen | hmm | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | definitely try removing the parens in that inner map | 19:06 |
| @rizen | yeah, what do those parens do | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | it returns a single element array containg a hash ref of three items | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | which isn't what you want | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | you want the bare hash ref | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | nuke those parens, it should work | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | do we have a way to test that? | 19:08 |
| @rizen | yeah, i'm setting up a test | 19:08 |
| @rizen | i can't log in to the server side of the client | 19:08 |
| @rizen | so i'm setting up the same template | 19:08 |
| @rizen | on my local box | 19:08 |
| @rizen | to see what happens | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | how far from Chicago to Madison? | 19:09 |
| @rizen | 3 hours | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, portland to chicago by plane is $175 | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | delta, connecting through salt lake | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | no dates set yet | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | we're down to $129, but we have to go through Salt Lake and __Atlanta__? | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | that's nutz | 19:17 |
| @rizen | that is nutz | 19:19 |
| @rizen | there are a few carriers that go directly here from their hub | 19:20 |
| @rizen | try American Airlines | 19:20 |
| @rizen | Northwest | 19:20 |
| @rizen | or Midwest Express | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | right now we're just looking for chear | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | $129 | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | per person | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | Vegas was more expensive than that | 19:20 |
| perlm | So the URL object is arbitrary and can be set to anything for each asset? | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | unless you dupe a URL, in which case it will add a 2 to the end | 19:21 |
| @rizen | url object? | 19:21 |
| perlm | property | 19:21 |
| @rizen | what he said | 19:22 |
| @rizen | ok, so i've removed the parens | 19:22 |
| @rizen | and no go | 19:22 |
| @preaction | i'm trying to figure this out too | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | same bug, same place? | 19:23 |
| @rizen | hmm | 19:24 |
| @rizen | now that i can set up the example on my local box | 19:25 |
| @rizen | i'm seeing a different error | 19:25 |
| @rizen | well...a error | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | w/o parens? | 19:25 |
| @rizen | 2007/01/17 11:23:55 - WARN - dev.localhost.localdomain.conf - Log::Log4perl::Logger::__ANON__[768] - Couldn't call method view on asset for url: site_map/test.rss Root cause: Can't locate object method "new" via package "WebGUI::Asset::Thread" (perhaps you forgot to load "WebGUI::Asset::Thread"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm line 678. | 19:25 |
| @rizen | my fault | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | there are outer parens, too | 19:26 |
| @rizen | ok | 19:27 |
| @rizen | here is the real error | 19:27 |
| @rizen | 2007/01/17 11:23:55 - WARN - dev.localhost.localdomain.conf - Log::Log4perl::Logger::__ANON__[768] - Couldn't call method view on asset for url: site_map/test.rss Root cause: Can't locate object method "new" via package "WebGUI::Asset::Thread" (perhaps you forgot to load "WebGUI::Asset::Thread"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm line 678. | 19:27 |
| @preaction | fixing that error seems to make it work | 19:27 |
| @preaction | it should be WebGUI::Asset::Post::Thread, not WebGUI::Asset::Thread | 19:27 |
| @rizen | right | 19:27 |
| @rizen | that's fixed | 19:27 |
| @rizen | check out the most recent version | 19:27 |
| @rizen | and the key here is to use their template | 19:27 |
| @rizen | not the default one | 19:27 |
| @rizen | cuz they are using the attachment loop and the default does not | 19:28 |
| @rizen | http://rafb.net/p/4j9Wb878.html | 19:28 |
| @rizen | colin, it turns out the inner parens don't make a difference | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | hmmm | 19:31 |
| @rizen | oh shit | 19:31 |
| @rizen | sorry guys | 19:31 |
| @rizen | i didn't realize i posted the same error | 19:31 |
| @rizen | this is the real error | 19:31 |
| @rizen | 2007/01/17 11:29:38 - WARN - dev.localhost.localdomain.conf - Log::Log4perl::Logger::__ANON__[41] - Couldn't call method view on asset for url: site_map/test.rss Root cause: HTML::Template->output() : fatal error in loop output : HTML::Template::param() : attempt to set parameter 'attachmentloop' with a scalar - parameter is not a TMPL_VAR! at /data/wre/prereqs/perl/lib/site_perl/5.8.8/HTML/Template.pm line 2997 | 19:31 |
| @rizen | at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template/HTMLTemplate.pm line 69 | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Try dumping the contents of what getRssItems returns | 19:33 |
| @rizen | wait | 19:33 |
| @rizen | correct me if i'm wrong | 19:33 |
| @rizen | but a map always returns an array | 19:33 |
| @rizen | right? | 19:33 |
| @preaction | correct | 19:33 |
| @rizen | so just putting [] on the outside of an array doesn't make it an array ref | 19:33 |
| @rizen | that's just shoving the array into another array ref | 19:34 |
| @preaction | correct | 19:34 |
| @rizen | if that's even legal | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | it is | 19:34 |
| @rizen | so the map isn't the problem | 19:34 |
| @rizen | but rather the brackets on the outside of the second map | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | right | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | need to assign to a variable and then reference it | 19:34 |
| @preaction | or force list context | 19:34 |
| perlm | Are uploaded gifs and jpgs stored on disk in the uploads dir or in the DB as BLOBS? If they are stored on disk, then I just have a simple config error. | 19:35 |
| +perlDreamer | on disk | 19:35 |
| perlm | Whew, thanks, I thought I had something major wrong. | 19:36 |
| @preaction | DB as blobs would be infinitely stupid | 19:36 |
| perlm | infininetly? | 19:36 |
| perlm | I can think of reasons to use the DB. | 19:36 |
| perlm | disk fragmentation. | 19:36 |
| @rizen | yeah there are lots of reasons to use a db | 19:36 |
| @preaction | uhm... huh? | 19:36 |
| @rizen | none of them are performance | 19:36 |
| @rizen | also none of them are simplicity | 19:37 |
| perlm | put 1 million small jpgs on the disk and your disk will average 4k fragments if you are using ex3 with 4k extents. | 19:37 |
| @rizen | and finally, in my opinion (which of course is correct in every instance no matter what cuz i don't make mistakes), none of them are ever good | 19:37 |
| perlm | Use the DB and your fragments will do much better. | 19:38 |
| +perlDreamer | WBP says that do statement should be a separate sub | 19:38 |
| @preaction | so, minimum block size, not disk fragmentation | 19:38 |
| perlm | well, if each of those jpgs avgs 6K in size, the DB will do much better at using disk space. | 19:39 |
| @preaction | rizen, perlDreamer: This entire part should be rewritten to remove those maps and replace them with for loops, would you like me to try to do it before Roy wakes up for the release? | 19:39 |
| perlm | especially of you have multiple writers concurently | 19:39 |
| +perlDreamer | we only have 25 minutes to commit | 19:39 |
| @preaction | it won't take that long if i start | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | the maps are fine because they're transforming data | 19:40 |
| @rizen | making it a separate sub | 19:42 |
| perlm | okay, this should be the last thing I need to bug anyone about. But in my config file, I have /data/domains/my.domain.com/public/uploads but I can't find /zn/Gk/znGkHfBINGO which is the tag for my img I'm trying to bring up. | 19:43 |
| +perlDreamer | the assetId really ends in BINGO? | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | that's funny | 19:44 |
| @rizen | still isn't fixed | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | same error? | 19:44 |
| @rizen | commited new formatted version | 19:44 |
| @rizen | yes | 19:44 |
| perlm | heh, no it doesn't end in BINGO, I just didn't want to type out that string :p | 19:44 |
| perlm | Hmmm, maybe I should have just looked at the log and seen that apache user didn't have permissions for that dir. Idiot..... | 19:49 |
| +perlDreamer | everyone makes that mistake | 19:49 |
| @rizen | **** **** #### $#&@ @$%^ | 19:50 |
| @preaction | i've pulled a dump of the posts before they're sent back, and it seems that the structure is created correctly, H::T just doesn't like it for some reason | 19:51 |
| @preaction | i mean, if attachmentLoop should be an arrayref of hashrefs, then what I have is doing just that | 19:51 |
| @preaction | i removed those crummy maps and made it easier to understand | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | the reall error is on line 2533 in HTML::Template.pm | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, could you please paste the dump somewhere? | 19:55 |
| @rizen | i've also used data dumper with the maps | 19:55 |
| @rizen | and determined that the data structures are correct | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | this is what we're up against | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | (ref($param_map->{$param}) eq 'HTML::Template::LOOP') or | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | croak("HTML::Template::param() : attempt to set parameter '$param' with an array ref - parameter is not a TMPL_LOOP!"); | 19:56 |
| @preaction | http://rafb.net/p/Lmt09h41.html | 19:57 |
| @rizen | http://rafb.net/p/H5i4my48.html | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | so we have data that we know looks good, from two different sources | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | how about the template? | 19:58 |
| @preaction | we're both using the same template | 19:58 |
| @rizen | http://rafb.net/p/4j9Wb878.html | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | if you put a tmpl_var in front of the tmpl_loop so the two aren't adjacent does it change anything? | 19:59 |
| @rizen | no diff | 20:02 |
| @preaction | i figured it out, something is happening in the RSSFromParent that's changing that attachmentLoop hashrefs into strings | 20:04 |
| @preaction | wtf is line 108-109 in RSSFromParent doing? | 20:06 |
| @preaction | it seems to be forcing a hashref to be a WebGUI::Asset, and then running a method on it | 20:06 |
| +perlDreamer | but none of these items should be WebGUI::Assets | 20:07 |
| @preaction | oh, nm i'm dumb, it's 114-118 that's the problem | 20:07 |
| @preaction | it's joining, and it shouldn't be. why is it joining though? | 20:09 |
| @preaction | what's the PURPOSE of this? | 20:09 |
| +perlDreamer | don't know | 20:09 |
| +perlDreamer | no docs | 20:09 |
| @rizen | he's trying to go through the data structure | 20:09 |
| * preaction refrains from typing his long and loud rant against certain devs | 20:10 | |
| @rizen | and fix it for invalid chars | 20:10 |
| @preaction | you need something else for that, a nice recursive sub | 20:10 |
| @rizen | so that those chars don't corrupt the output of the rss feed | 20:10 |
| @rizen | but he's screwing it up | 20:10 |
| @rizen | cuz it's not going to work on a hierarchical data structure | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | no, it will only do two levels | 20:10 |
| @preaction | the escaping can be done in the template, <tmpl_var BLAH escape="html"> | 20:11 |
| @rizen | agreed | 20:11 |
| @preaction | unless it's CDATA | 20:11 |
| @rizen | think this code should just be eliminated | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | and the templates changed | 20:11 |
| @rizen | and the user should use template based escaping | 20:11 |
| @rizen | in this case | 20:12 |
| @rizen | we don't even need to change the templates | 20:12 |
| @rizen | because the text is already sanitized | 20:12 |
| @preaction | instead of eliminated, it just does it for scalars, and include a comment that it does not yet do data structures, i | 20:12 |
| @rizen | before it's sent to the rss feed | 20:12 |
| @rizen | why do the work multiple times preaction? | 20:12 |
| @preaction | meh, nevermind, eliminated | 20:13 |
| @rizen | the template can do it | 20:13 |
| @preaction | i've got a working version, with that map crap made into something readable | 20:14 |
| @preaction | want me to commit? | 20:14 |
| @preaction | i'll probably have a conflict to work out, but nothing major | 20:14 |
| @rizen | no | 20:15 |
| @rizen | i've made the changes | 20:15 |
| @rizen | also | 20:15 |
| @rizen | and probably have the most recent version | 20:15 |
| @rizen | and i also formatted the map | 20:15 |
| @preaction | formatted but didn't remove, iirc there's something in WBP about keeping maps simple, instead of using them as loops | 20:16 |
| @rizen | also, my initial test indicates that it's still not fixed | 20:16 |
| @preaction | i'm seeing an RSS feed in mine | 20:16 |
| @preaction | well rather, an XML document | 20:16 |
| @preaction | since they didn't put the <rss> stuff in the template | 20:17 |
| @rizen | hmm well then i guess check in yours | 20:17 |
| @rizen | cuz i must have screwed up something | 20:17 |
| @preaction | k | 20:17 |
| @rizen | are you going to commit soon? | 20:20 |
| @preaction | done | 20:20 |
| @preaction | r3574 | 20:20 |
| @preaction | had to resolve the conflict between our collaboration.pm (since you modified it since i had started changing the maps into for loops) | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | do we need to tell DrSnap about the commit? | 20:21 |
| @preaction | he still seems afk | 20:22 |
| @rizen | i already did | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | cool | 20:22 |
| @preaction | rizen: did you test? | 20:22 |
| @rizen | yes and it's working | 20:22 |
| @preaction | sweet | 20:22 |
| @rizen | but now i'm cleaning up extraneous code that you left that i added that you probably didn't know i added | 20:22 |
| @preaction | i was wondering why the conflicted area seemed smaller than i thought | 20:23 |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as perlBirthday | 20:27 | |
| -!- snapcount [n=snapcoun@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 20:33 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 20:33 | |
| +perlBirthday | I checked out the XML escaping routing in RSSFromParent and the HTML::Template HTML escaping and they don't match | 20:46 |
| +perlBirthday | XML escaping needs single quote, HTML::Template doesn't do that | 20:47 |
| +perlBirthday | also, HTML::Template escape &, and doesn't need to but that's not a problem | 20:47 |
| -!- perlBirthday is now known as perlDreamer | 20:48 | |
| +perlDreamer | nice catch, preaction | 20:57 |
| @preaction | Data::Dumper is my best friend | 21:00 |
| @preaction | why are there three mes here? | 21:00 |
| -!- preaction__ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit ["Leaving"] | 21:00 | |
| -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit ["Leaving"] | 21:00 | |
| @rizen | ok next big ass bug | 21:03 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer, you good to work? | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | still here | 21:04 |
| @rizen | sweet | 21:04 |
| @rizen | well the next big bug is the CS problem | 21:04 |
| @rizen | well actually there are two problems | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | took an action item to review all templates for javascript and RSS ification | 21:04 |
| @rizen | but they may be related | 21:04 |
| @rizen | problem 1: blank emails get sent out, but if you visit the site the message is there as an attachment usually (usersdomain.com) | 21:05 |
| @rizen | problem 2: blank emails get sent out, and the embedded url doesn't even exist | 21:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I've seen that last one | 21:06 |
| +perlDreamer | it's like the URL has been truncated to just sitename and assetId | 21:06 |
| +perlDreamer | where do we start? | 21:06 |
| @rizen | well let me fill you in on a secret regarding #2 | 21:06 |
| @preaction | probably because there's no url in assetData for some reason | 21:06 |
| @rizen | all assets are generated with a guid url | 21:06 |
| @rizen | and then updated to have their real url | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | updated on commit? | 21:07 |
| @rizen | so when the asset is initially created it has that dummy guid url | 21:07 |
| @rizen | updated as in processed form params | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 21:07 |
| @rizen | regarding number 1 | 21:07 |
| @rizen | it happens on our site occasionally | 21:07 |
| @rizen | and i usually only see it on the dev list | 21:08 |
| @rizen | but it's also happening on some of our other client's sites more frequently | 21:08 |
| @rizen | i think just cuz their lists are more high traffic so they see it more often | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | makes sense | 21:08 |
| @rizen | anyway...both of these are probably related | 21:08 |
| @preaction | it has to be a misbehaving mail client, marking the HTML-ized version of the mail as an attachment. we may have to use their site to get some debug information to a file | 21:08 |
| @rizen | my guess is that they are both parsing errors of some sort | 21:08 |
| @rizen | right | 21:08 |
| * preaction goes back to DoS work | 21:09 | |
| @rizen | i think it has to do with something in the content of the message not getting parsed correctly | 21:09 |
| @rizen | and then causes the messages to get hosed | 21:09 |
| @rizen | also...i know for sure than #1 only happens when coming in via emamil | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | could it be another escaping problem? | 21:09 |
| @rizen | i don't know for sure when #2 happens | 21:09 |
| @rizen | could be | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | #2 sounds like a race condition, which is why i asked about the commit | 21:10 |
| @rizen | as for where we start..i'm not sure | 21:10 |
| @rizen | maybe we start with combing the code | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 21:10 |
| @rizen | i'm also going to add some debug to the one clien't ssite | 21:10 |
| @rizen | so we can maybe get the raw message | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | cool | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | it's hard to debug intermittent problems | 21:10 |
| @rizen | both of these are show stoppers | 21:11 |
| @rizen | as far as going stable | 21:11 |
| @preaction | #2 i'd start with the new autocommit stuff, it didn't start until then. perhaps spectre considers sending mail higher priority (or just does it faster) than committing the tag | 21:11 |
| @rizen | so that's why i'm putting them on our high priority list while working together | 21:11 |
| @rizen | ok, i've added the debug | 21:14 |
| @rizen | so now we just wait on that front | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | I've been looking at #2, and everything looks okay so far | 21:15 |
| +perlDreamer | hopping through notifySubscribers, update, postProcess | 21:15 |
| @rizen | btw...if we can clean it up for readability and stuff while we're in here | 21:15 |
| @rizen | let's go for it | 21:16 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 21:16 |
| @rizen | cuz it's pretty spaghetti right now | 21:16 |
| @rizen | hey | 21:17 |
| @rizen | when was the last time you got one of those empty messages? | 21:17 |
| @rizen | and do you still have it in your trash? | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | 1-2 days ago | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I might have it | 21:17 |
| @preaction | i think that sometimes halfway through sending the notifications, the asset finally gets updated and the real message starts going out | 21:18 |
| @rizen | ah i found one | 21:18 |
| @preaction | i got one this morning | 21:18 |
| @snapcount | does style03 look right to you guys in FF from head? | 21:18 |
| @preaction | snapcount: it did a moment ago, i can check again | 21:18 |
| @snapcount | it might be only screwed using the create script | 21:18 |
| @snapcount | I just noticed it when testing the create script for 7.3.5 | 21:19 |
| @snapcount | if it looks right, will you run make/test create and see | 21:19 |
| @preaction | i did a resetdev and i'll check | 21:19 |
| @snapcount | someone changed the css file for it in this release | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | that was me | 21:20 |
| @preaction | would a resetdev show the problem? | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | Steve posted a bug about changing boxstyle for Mozilla | 21:20 |
| @snapcount | it might | 21:20 |
| @snapcount | it should rather | 21:20 |
| @preaction | it doesn't | 21:20 |
| @preaction | what's the problem? | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | It modifies the Snippet inline | 21:21 |
| @rizen | pd: i think you're right re blank messages | 21:21 |
| @snapcount | there is no grey bar around the tell a friend and site map links | 21:21 |
| @rizen | pd: emails are being sent before the asset is commited...or something like that | 21:21 |
| @preaction | i don't see that | 21:21 |
| @snapcount | ok | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: that's easy | 21:21 |
| @rizen | i don't know exactly what the problem | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | all we need to do is quantify the email mailer with the Asset status | 21:21 |
| @snapcount | I'll clear my cache and start over to make sure I'm not being dumb | 21:21 |
| @rizen | but it lies therein | 21:21 |
| @rizen | cuz the asset that i got a blank message for yesterday | 21:22 |
| @rizen | has actual real data | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | do you want a message with bad URL? | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I found one of those | 21:22 |
| @rizen | sure | 21:22 |
| @rizen | just the bad url is all i need | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | too late | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, it's a race condition | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | but the asset data should still be updated before notifySubscribers gets called | 21:26 |
| @preaction | i've got one that looks like everything except the URL was updated, from the bugs list yesterday | 21:29 |
| @rizen | sorry, got distracted doing support there for a second | 21:32 |
| @rizen | back looking at the thing you sent me now | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | it looks exactly like it hasn't been through postProcess yet | 21:32 |
| @rizen | yup | 21:33 |
| @rizen | i agree | 21:33 |
| @rizen | the one you just sent me also has a valid url now | 21:33 |
| @rizen | bugs/tracker/login-after-checkout-brings-user-back-to-cart/3/re-login-after-checkout-brings-user-back-to-cart2 | 21:33 |
| @rizen | that's the url of the empty one you sent me colin | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 21:33 |
| perlm | What is the proper way to include a css snippet into your template? ^FileUrl? | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | ^AssetProxy() | 21:34 |
| perlm | how-to-build-a-style uses like 4 methods | 21:34 |
| perlm | cool, thanks | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | that will slurp it into the current page | 21:34 |
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| -!- snapcount [n=snapcoun@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] | 21:35 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapfoo] by rizen | 21:35 | |
| -!- snapfoo is now known as snapcount | 21:36 | |
| @snapcount | wtf | 21:36 |
| @snapcount | that was weird | 21:36 |
| @preaction | perlm: i would simply use <link rel="stylesheet" href="/path/to/snippet" /> to take advantage of caching | 21:38 |
| perlm | preaction I've tried that and the path isn't working. The log says it doesn't exist. In the href I have the URL property from the snippet which works perfectly when I append it to the root URL (showing the CSS file). I don't know why it doesn't work in a link tag. | 21:39 |
| perlm | AssetProxy works with no problem using the same path from the snippet properties. | 21:40 |
| @preaction | you have the URL property from the snippet with a / in front of it, correct? | 21:41 |
| @rizen | man | 21:42 |
| @rizen | not sure how to fix this race condition | 21:42 |
| perlm | no, no /. I'll try that now. How-to-build-a-style is a bit hard to follow on where to put leading /'s | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | perlm: once you get it worked out, update the wiki page | 21:42 |
| perlm | aye aye, captain | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: it looks like a race but I don't see how it happens | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | it doesn't make any sense | 21:43 |
| @rizen | ok, i can tell you how | 21:43 |
| @rizen | maybe you can help me fix it then | 21:43 |
| @rizen | here's the order of operations | 21:43 |
| @rizen | processPropertiesFromFormPost | 21:43 |
| @rizen | or | 21:43 |
| @rizen | GetCsMail | 21:44 |
| @rizen | both call addRevision | 21:44 |
| @rizen | some asset types are of type "autocommit" | 21:44 |
| @rizen | because we don't want the user to have to hit "commit my changes" | 21:44 |
| @rizen | like cs posts for example | 21:44 |
| @rizen | anyway | 21:44 |
| @rizen | addRevision calls requestCommit | 21:44 |
| @rizen | on the versionTag | 21:45 |
| @rizen | and in the case of the CS Post | 21:45 |
| @rizen | notifySubscribers is called when commit is called | 21:45 |
| @rizen | so if the workflow engine is running fast | 21:45 |
| @rizen | it can actually do the commit | 21:45 |
| @rizen | before the other updates have been processed | 21:45 |
| perlm | <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/casr-style-1/css/typography.css" /> doesn't work. But if I put that exact same path in an ^AssetProxy *without* the leading / it works fine. | 21:46 |
| @preaction | perlm: url? | 21:46 |
| perlm | casr-test.ou.edu/home/test2 | 21:47 |
| perlm | http://casr-test.ou.edu/home/test2 | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: can we pull the call to notifySubscribers out of the API and add it to a special workflow for Posts? | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | to guarantee that it blocks correctly? | 21:47 |
| @rizen | no | 21:47 |
| @rizen | the reason being the workflow we're running works on type VersionTag | 21:47 |
| @rizen | that's the object we're operating on | 21:48 |
| perlm | I probably need to commit what I'm doing for someone else to see it. | 21:48 |
| @preaction | perlm yes | 21:48 |
| @preaction | at least, for me, because i can't join your version tag | 21:48 |
| @snapcount | dagnab it I'm still seeing this broken style | 21:48 |
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| ckotil | perim in your template inside the <link rel="stylesheet" ... put ^/;casr-style-1/css/typography" the ^/; is a webgui macro that inserts the well formed url. | 21:48 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: can we add the asset status to the mail message object and have it check that status before processing the email in the workflow? | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | actually, at that point it's already too late | 21:49 |
| ckotil | <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="^/;casr-style-1/css/typography.css" /> | 21:49 |
| perlm | okay, preaction, committed, cache cleared | 21:49 |
| perlm | thanks ckotil, I'll try that. | 21:49 |
| @preaction | perlm: <link> doesn't go inside <style> | 21:50 |
| perlm | doh, left over from the AssetProxy. Trust me, it wasn't working before. | 21:50 |
| @rizen | ooh | 21:50 |
| @preaction | can't trust you, don't know you well enough | 21:50 |
| @rizen | i have an idea | 21:50 |
| @preaction | because that <link href> still looks wrong :p | 21:51 |
| @rizen | what if we move the call to postProcess into commit() | 21:51 |
| @rizen | crap | 21:51 |
| @rizen | we can't do that | 21:51 |
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| @rizen | oh | 21:52 |
| @rizen | what if we move notify to postProcess | 21:52 |
| @rizen | can you see any reason that wouldn't work? | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | so the new flow would be | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | processPropertiesFromPost | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | postProcess | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | notify | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | commit | 21:53 |
| @rizen | no | 21:53 |
| @rizen | processProperties... | 21:53 |
| @rizen | commit | 21:53 |
| @rizen | postProcess | 21:53 |
| @rizen | notify | 21:54 |
| @rizen | and actually | 21:54 |
| @rizen | commit is variable | 21:54 |
| @rizen | it might be later | 21:54 |
| @rizen | because it's about timing | 21:54 |
| @rizen | no matter how you look at this | 21:54 |
| @rizen | it's a jury rig | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 21:54 |
| @rizen | unless we redevelop the autocommit | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | the only safe way is to attach the commit and the notify so that they always happen in the same order | 21:55 |
| @rizen | you mean circumvent the autocommit | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 21:55 |
| @rizen | notify is already in the commit method | 21:55 |
| @rizen | the problem is that commit is being called too early | 21:55 |
| @rizen | before postProcess | 21:55 |
| @rizen | so it's not the problem that they are happening out of order | 21:56 |
| @rizen | but rather than postProcess, sometimes isn't being called until after commit | 21:56 |
| @rizen | or for that matter | 21:56 |
| @rizen | sometimes even processPropertiesFromFormPost isnt' being called | 21:56 |
| @rizen | until after commit | 21:56 |
| @rizen | or i shouldn't say called | 21:56 |
| @rizen | but completed | 21:56 |
| +perlDreamer | right | 21:56 |
| @rizen | so we can make it just work | 21:57 |
| @rizen | as i said above | 21:57 |
| @rizen | or we can revamp the whole autocommit | 21:57 |
| @rizen | the reason i did it the way i did it | 21:57 |
| @rizen | was that i wanted to just make it actually autocommit | 21:57 |
| @rizen | but to get around this problem | 21:57 |
| @rizen | i'll actually have to re-add the explicit | 21:57 |
| @rizen | requestCommit() method | 21:57 |
| @rizen | which will handle the autocommit functionality | 21:58 |
| @rizen | so the programmer will have to manually call the autocommit when necessary | 21:58 |
| +perlDreamer | doesn't it still call requestCommit? | 21:58 |
| @rizen | and in the case of posts | 21:58 |
| +perlDreamer | $workingTag->requestCommit if ($autoCommitId); | 21:58 |
| @rizen | that's after postProcess | 21:58 |
| @rizen | 2 seperate things | 21:58 |
| @rizen | i'm talking about a requestCommit method on the asset | 21:59 |
| @rizen | not on the tag | 21:59 |
| @rizen | perhaps its a bad name | 21:59 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 21:59 |
| @rizen | let's call it autocommit | 21:59 |
| +perlDreamer | There you go | 21:59 |
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| @rizen | i'm just using the original terminology | 21:59 |
| @rizen | that used to be there | 21:59 |
| +perlDreamer | My head is spinning. I'm going to take a break and grab some lunch | 22:00 |
| @rizen | k | 22:00 |
| @rizen | i'll get to work on revamping autocommit again | 22:00 |
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| preaction_ | colliquy doesn't like 1000+ users in a channel i don't think | 22:00 |
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| -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction | 22:00 | |
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| @snapcount | preaction: this is what I see | 22:03 |
| @snapcount | http://www.flickr.com/photos/30046067@N00/360815333/ | 22:03 |
| @snapcount | perlbot shorten it | 22:03 |
| perlbot | Shortened URL: http://xrl.us/uayc | 22:03 |
| @preaction-m | weird | 22:03 |
| @snapcount | I did a svn status to see if I screwed with something and just forgot | 22:04 |
| @snapcount | I should be done with the release right now... grrr | 22:04 |
| @snapcount | stupid little things plague me | 22:04 |
| @snapcount | story of my life | 22:04 |
| @snapcount | =D | 22:04 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey guys. Here's a question for you: I'm pondering making and distributing a macro with my next theme. It'll make maintaining the "site network" easier. Are there any gotchas I need to worry about? | 22:09 |
| @preaction | besides that they'd have to install it themselves? | 22:10 |
| PedersenMJ | That's what I was worried about. Was hoping they wouldn't. | 22:10 |
| @preaction | does it have universal appeal? | 22:10 |
| @preaction | you may be able to convince JT to include it in core starting 7.4 | 22:11 |
| @snapcount | ok so this is something with my build | 22:11 |
| @snapcount | same page in IE | 22:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Not this one, no. This is a very specialized purpose, meant to allow easier maintenance of a list of sites. That's it. A simple expansion macro, in fact. (i.e.: ^AddSisterSite("http://www.google.com/", "Google"); would become <a href="http://www.google.com/">Google</a> plus some extra styling info. | 22:12 |
| @preaction | yeah, probably not then. <a href="">text</a> works fine for most people :p | 22:13 |
| @preaction | you may want to look into using semantic markup and styling though, don't get sucked into using classes too often | 22:14 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, it does. Like I said, extra styling info, too. Helps to ensure consistency, reduces effort in maintenance, etc. | 22:14 |
| @preaction | for the most part, just selecting by semantics should work. you should rarely use class= or style= | 22:14 |
| @snapcount | rizen, can you update, resetdev, and tell me if style03 is screwed up for you? | 22:14 |
| @rizen | my codebase is broken right now | 22:15 |
| @rizen | give me a few minutes to sort it out | 22:15 |
| @snapcount | ok ty | 22:15 |
| @snapcount | I'm starting to go insane | 22:15 |
| PedersenMJ | preaction: I'm not making a new theme, I'm converting an existing one from someone else. | 22:15 |
| @preaction | and they use classes often? fix it for them | 22:16 |
| PedersenMJ | And, to be honest, my web skills to switch such a theme are *not* that good. | 22:16 |
| @snapcount | PedersenMJ: I added a wiki entry that tells people how to install your theme in wG | 22:16 |
| @preaction | crapbeans | 22:16 |
| @snapcount | and other themes for that matter | 22:16 |
| @snapcount | is that like java beans/ | 22:16 |
| PedersenMJ | I saw that. Thank you. I'll be adding more as I can, definitely, and linking to that entry. | 22:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Nah, crap beans taste better than java beans. | 22:17 |
| @preaction | uhm... you're SOL then. I vote for giving a presentation on good design practices | 22:17 |
| @snapcount | One of those things that aren't obvious to a new user | 22:17 |
| @preaction | and FORCING steve to attend | 22:17 |
| @snapcount | and the first thing they will do is try to apply the theme as a newb | 22:17 |
| @snapcount | preaction: you're confusing me | 22:18 |
| @snapcount | what are you talking about, did I zone out and miss something here =) | 22:18 |
| @preaction | i'm talking to PedersenMJ for the most part | 22:18 |
| @snapcount | oh ok | 22:18 |
| @snapcount | all up in yur biz nass | 22:18 |
| @snapcount | sorry | 22:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, snapcount, he's ranting at me his disapproval for the methods involved in converting this theme I'm working on. | 22:18 |
| @snapcount | ahh | 22:19 |
| @preaction | he's trying to migrate themes with bad design practices, the problem is that it seems that very very few people know good CSS/HTML usage practices | 22:19 |
| @snapcount | is there such a thing | 22:19 |
| @snapcount | w/ browser compatibility every design has to be a hack | 22:19 |
| @snapcount | imho | 22:19 |
| @preaction | not ranting at you, it's not your fault the person who released their code free doesn't know <insert funny vulgarity> from a hole in the ground | 22:19 |
| * snapcount throws preaction a zanex... "easy boy" | 22:20 | |
| @snapcount | lol | 22:20 |
| @preaction | this is tame, you'll know when i'm being mean ;) | 22:20 |
| @preaction | (you'll be running away) | 22:20 |
| @snapcount | damn purists | 22:20 |
| @snapcount | or idealist | 22:20 |
| PedersenMJ | Is there a way to define my own variable? ie: <tmpl_var site=someval> ? | 22:21 |
| @preaction | idealist, i break my own rules because of browser compats | 22:21 |
| @snapcount | either way you're crazy for knowing what you know about css/html et. al | 22:21 |
| @snapcount | sure | 22:21 |
| @snapcount | if you write some code | 22:21 |
| @snapcount | what do you want to accomplish? | 22:21 |
| PedersenMJ | I gave up on being a purist with html a long time ago. Every site I've ever made has been absolute shit because I've tried to stick to the "standards", and never been able to put up with the variations in the browsers. | 22:22 |
| @snapcount | this is why I never tried to learn JS/HTML/DHTML/Web 2.0.x.3.59er 5 charlie delta | 22:22 |
| @snapcount | blah | 22:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Basically, I want to have a snippet which gets updated. The snippet contains a list of site names and urls. I want to have a loop which reads through that snippet, puts the proper tags around the urls, etc, and outputs the resultant html. | 22:23 |
| @snapcount | couldn't and still can't stand having to know thousands of tricks to make it work for everyone | 22:23 |
| @snapcount | where are the site names coming from? | 22:23 |
| @preaction | i'll put a personal to-do for "make a WebGUI style following HTML/CSS good practices" | 22:23 |
| @preaction | meaning i'll do it in about three months, when i have free time :( | 22:24 |
| @snapcount | silly man... you think you will ever have free time? | 22:24 |
| PedersenMJ | Same snippet as the url's. | 22:24 |
| @preaction | not if i keep IRCing instead of working on Alumni stuff | 22:24 |
| * preaction & | 22:24 | |
| @snapcount | so you want users to be able to submit links | 22:25 |
| @snapcount | then style them a certain way | 22:25 |
| @snapcount | w/o them having to know html? | 22:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Not quite. Lemme find that theme, hang on a sec. | 22:26 |
| @snapcount | when I say "then style them" I mean, you want a certain style you have defined to be applied to them | 22:26 |
| @snapcount | not for the user to be able to style them | 22:27 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2204 | 22:27 |
| * snapcount throws his laptop into the toilet | 22:27 | |
| @snapcount | if I don't figure this friggin display problem out I'm going to flip | 22:27 |
| @snapcount | ok what am I looking at here? | 22:28 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm planning on putting the "Site Network" (upper right) into a snippet, but only as a list of url's and names. Let the person who installs it just modify that snippet. | 22:28 |
| @snapcount | ok | 22:28 |
| PedersenMJ | The template itself I'm looking to have loop over that snippet, and output the correct html. | 22:28 |
| @snapcount | are those pages supposed to be external to the site? | 22:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Definitely can be. | 22:29 |
| @preaction | those pages inside <div id="toptabs">? | 22:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Most likely are. | 22:30 |
| @snapcount | ok then | 22:30 |
| @snapcount | you don't need a loop of any kind | 22:30 |
| @snapcount | just a snippet with the html in it | 22:30 |
| @preaction | just put them in the snippet as-is, make them follow it themselves | 22:30 |
| PedersenMJ | I know, I can, but me being who I am, I was hoping to find a way to make it easier. | 22:30 |
| @snapcount | is your goal that the person can define those links without having to edit an anchor tag? | 22:31 |
| PedersenMJ | More or less, yes. I wanted to remove the likelihood of getting a typo on those classnames, always ensure the | span goes in, ec. | 22:31 |
| @snapcount | I see | 22:32 |
| @snapcount | there is a way you could do this that is a little crazy | 22:32 |
| @snapcount | but kind of cool | 22:32 |
| @snapcount | you could make a CS using the link list template | 22:32 |
| @preaction | oh.. ew.. | 22:32 |
| @preaction | the performance hit... | 22:32 |
| @snapcount | then modify the display template to output the html for the upper portion of that site | 22:32 |
| @snapcount | for four links? | 22:33 |
| @snapcount | come on | 22:33 |
| @preaction | each page? | 22:33 |
| @preaction | instanciating an asset is expensive | 22:33 |
| PedersenMJ | I did consider that, actually, but also wasn't happy with that idea because of the cs. | 22:33 |
| @preaction | and unnecessary! | 22:33 |
| @snapcount | we instanciate assets every time someone looks at a webgui page | 22:34 |
| PedersenMJ | It sounds like the only way to do it that will be worth doing is going to be to plug the html into a snippet. Unless I can make the macro idea more general purpose... | 22:35 |
| @rizen | preaction: are you there? | 22:35 |
| @preaction | yes'm | 22:35 |
| @rizen | could i get you to go through Event.pm | 22:35 |
| @rizen | and add $self->requestAutoCommit | 22:35 |
| @rizen | wherever you would want things to commit themselves | 22:36 |
| @preaction | added to my to-do list, which i hope to bring to completion by monday | 22:37 |
| @preaction | or did you want to test it | 22:37 |
| @rizen | i need it now, if you can't do it now | 22:37 |
| @rizen | then i'll do it | 22:37 |
| @rizen | nevermind | 22:37 |
| @rizen | doing it | 22:37 |
| @preaction | there should be only one or two, in processPropertiesFromFormPost | 22:38 |
| @rizen | and also the workflow activity | 22:39 |
| @rizen | looks like 4 total | 22:40 |
| @rizen | think i got it | 22:41 |
| @rizen | snapcount | 22:48 |
| @rizen | why can't you test it? | 22:48 |
| @rizen | i'm going to be here a while longer i think | 22:48 |
| @snapcount | I can... it's broken for me, but Doug says it's ok | 22:48 |
| @snapcount | trying to figure out if it's something with me or if something is broken | 22:49 |
| @rizen | either way something is wrong | 22:49 |
| @rizen | so you need to fix it | 22:49 |
| @rizen | don't wait on me | 22:49 |
| @rizen | i'll get to it when i can | 22:49 |
| @rizen | but it's going to be a while yet | 22:49 |
| @snapcount | I've been trying to and so far snake eyes | 22:49 |
| @snapcount | I'll keep working on it | 22:49 |
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| @snapcount | omfg | 23:02 |
| @snapcount | finally | 23:02 |
| @snapcount | somehow I deleted the FileUrl macro from my config file | 23:03 |
| @rizen | you must have a better god that those christians do | 23:03 |
| @snapcount | now I'm waiting on khenn | 23:03 |
| @rizen | for/ | 23:04 |
| @rizen | ? | 23:04 |
| @snapcount | get r done man... I got class tonight | 23:04 |
| @snapcount | a DoS bug that isn't fixed in IE6 | 23:04 |
| @rizen | a | 23:04 |
| @snapcount | some js thing | 23:04 |
| @snapcount | for the calendar | 23:04 |
| @rizen | well maybe i'll have another bug fixed before he does | 23:04 |
| @snapcount | that would be cool | 23:05 |
| @rizen | i'm working on the cs post empty email bug | 23:05 |
| @rizen | i'm within milimeters of having hit fixed | 23:05 |
| @snapcount | well may not need to rush anyways, I didn't realize it was this late | 23:05 |
| @snapcount | I don't think I'll have time to do the release until I'm back from class | 23:06 |
| @snapcount | I have to leave in just over an hour | 23:06 |
| @rizen | if you cared about hte community like a good community manager | 23:06 |
| @rizen | you'd skip class | 23:06 |
| @rizen | =) | 23:06 |
| @snapcount | hehe | 23:07 |
| @snapcount | you're such a good influence on me | 23:07 |
| @rizen | i am | 23:07 |
| @rizen | you're far better off financially now than you were before you met me | 23:08 |
| @rizen | and your relationship is more stable now than it was before | 23:08 |
| @rizen | it must be me that did all that | 23:08 |
| @rizen | =) | 23:08 |
| @preaction | so when do i start getting the fringe benefits of PB? | 23:08 |
| @rizen | what fringe benefits? | 23:08 |
| @snapcount | didn't you get the memo preaction | 23:09 |
| @preaction | helping my relationship and my financial portfolio :p | 23:09 |
| @snapcount | we don't even really get paid, it's all an illusion. In reality we are all sitting on JTs couch with a probe in our brain that simulates our reality | 23:10 |
| @preaction | what IS the matrix? | 23:10 |
| @snapcount | they even made a movie about it I think | 23:10 |
| @rizen | it's an asset in webgui | 23:10 |
| @snapcount | 3 of them even | 23:10 |
| PedersenMJ | Better than some alternate locations for the probe, at least (thinks alien abduction stories) | 23:10 |
| @snapcount | LMAO | 23:10 |
| @snapcount | the matrix hides in plain site as a comparison tool | 23:11 |
| @snapcount | in reality it is far more sinister | 23:11 |
| @rizen | preaction, i didn't actually do anything for snapcounts relationship or his portfolio | 23:11 |
| @preaction | i know, that's the fun part! | 23:12 |
| @rizen | k | 23:12 |
| @preaction | and you keep your hands far away from my future ex-wife | 23:12 |
| @rizen | actually that is a rule at pb...it's called the lords right | 23:13 |
| @rizen | i get to taste test the merchandise | 23:13 |
| @rizen | =) | 23:13 |
| @preaction | of course, my leige | 23:13 |
| @rizen | $*#&!!!!! | 23:13 |
| @rizen | how is it possible for a variable to just disappear | 23:16 |
| @snapcount | Acme::Bleach? | 23:16 |
| @rizen | i'm being serious jackass | 23:16 |
| @snapcount | I would tend to think the most likely explanation is that you deleted it | 23:16 |
| @snapcount | use the u key in vi | 23:16 |
| @snapcount | it will pop back up =) | 23:17 |
| @rizen | http://rafb.net/p/kA9ugK18.html | 23:17 |
| @rizen | when i run setAutoCommitTag it sets the variable and that works | 23:18 |
| @rizen | but then by the time I get to requestAutoCommit | 23:18 |
| @rizen | it is no longer ther | 23:18 |
| @rizen | e | 23:18 |
| @rizen | wait@! | 23:19 |
| @rizen | may have found it | 23:19 |
| @rizen | wahoo | 23:21 |
| -!- perlm [n=chatzill@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/0000000000]"] | 23:28 | |
| @rizen | ok the empty messages bug #2 is officially fixed | 23:35 |
| @preaction | woohoo! | 23:35 |
| @rizen | and the autocommit functionality has been refactored to be more flexible about when the commit takes place | 23:35 |
| @rizen | unfortunately that means one xtra line of code for the dev | 23:35 |
| @rizen | but oh well | 23:35 |
| @preaction | did vrby say he'd be gone today? | 23:41 |
| @rizen | i don't know | 23:41 |
| @rizen | i'm the worst at following that sort of stuff | 23:41 |
| @rizen | we should probably just create a calendar on our site for appointments and the like | 23:42 |
| @rizen | and have everyone subscribe | 23:42 |
| @preaction | the moving of that squirrelmail app for finditco didn't take, there's no imap server on their new system to connect to, and in an e-mail, the client expressed apprehension at having to pay for me to go in and fix it, so i'm trying to get vrby's advice on how to proceed | 23:42 |
| @preaction | when this all could've been avoided had he told me, when i asked if he could login to the mail on his new server, that he could not and gave me the specific error message he got | 23:43 |
| @rizen | we could have avoided all of this had there not been a flub uup | 23:44 |
| @rizen | in the whole project communication | 23:44 |
| @rizen | cuz we don't migrate other apps | 23:44 |
| @preaction | true enough, but now it's grandfathered in | 23:44 |
| @rizen | only webgui | 23:44 |
| -!- lunchDreamer is now known as perlDreamer | 23:46 | |
| +perlDreamer | I'm back | 23:46 |
| +perlDreamer | insert the probe | 23:46 |
| @rizen | sweet | 23:47 |
| +perlDreamer | you got #2 working? | 23:48 |
| @rizen | yup | 23:51 |
| @rizen | all fixed | 23:51 |
| @khenn | can someone test something for me in safari? | 23:52 |
| ckotil | sure | 23:52 |
| @rizen | sure | 23:52 |
| @rizen | pd: i don't have any test data yet for #1 | 23:52 |
| @rizen | so i guess we'll have to move on | 23:52 |
| @khenn | http://frank1.plainblack.net:8084/getting_started | 23:52 |
| @khenn | mouseover any of those event down arrows | 23:52 |
| @khenn | and let me know if the div shows up aligned correctly with the table it's associated with | 23:53 |
| @khenn | table data | 23:53 |
| ckotil | yeah. works | 23:53 |
| @khenn | thanks | 23:53 |
| ckotil | acts the same as firefox. you're welcome | 23:53 |
| @khenn | thanks | 23:53 |
| @khenn | I tested FF, IE7, IE6, Opera | 23:53 |
| @khenn | can't test Safari | 23:54 |
| @rizen | yup, works in FF 2.0, Safari, and opera on mac | 23:54 |
| @khenn | great | 23:54 |
| @khenn | fixed up | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: what's the next bug? | 23:55 |
| @rizen | doing support first | 23:55 |
| @rizen | brb | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | k | 23:55 |
| @khenn | if anyone is interested. IE6 and earlier don't recognize div.offsetTop, even it if is absolutely positioned | 23:56 |
| --- Day changed Thu Jan 18 2007 | ||
| @rizen | ok back pd | 00:14 |
| @rizen | man as soon as i answer one support question someone else has another waiting for me | 00:14 |
| @rizen | =) | 00:14 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the joy of being the probe meister | 00:15 |
| @rizen | my brain hurts | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | You know, it's possible that the fix for #2 may have also fixed #1 | 00:15 |
| @rizen | i think i bruised it answering some support questions | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | you need a pad for the table | 00:15 |
| @rizen | i'm pretty certain it didn't | 00:15 |
| @rizen | #1 has been going on a lot longer than #2 | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | we need to wait for debug from that site | 00:16 |
| @rizen | yup | 00:16 |
| @rizen | let's search the bug board to see if there are any that need to be fixed to call this baby stable | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | Calendar, Wiki and CS bugs are tops? | 00:17 |
| @rizen | calendar and wiki | 00:17 |
| @rizen | that cs bug just needed to be fixed cuz it was a pain in peoples asses | 00:18 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 00:18 |
| @rizen | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/wiki-deleting-pages#1N7SMyGT56ji8X2z6qc4zg | 00:19 |
| +perlDreamer | JS confirmation and what else? | 00:20 |
| @rizen | that's it i think | 00:20 |
| @rizen | cuz the other part belongs to that other bug | 00:20 |
| @rizen | doesn't it? | 00:20 |
| @rizen | i'm researching now | 00:20 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll start on the pop-up | 00:21 |
| @rizen | i don't see the other bug that's mentioned in this article | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe it's been closed | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | but that's okay | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I wrote it :) | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | the recent changes list will show multiple versions of the same wiki page | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | and that's only a problem if the title changes | 00:23 |
| @rizen | i'll look at it | 00:23 |
| @khenn | Colin | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, khenn | 00:23 |
| @khenn | would you mind adding something to the fixes for WebGUI 7.3.5 for me? | 00:24 |
| +perlDreamer | what do you need? | 00:24 |
| +perlDreamer | as far as I know it hasn't gone out yet | 00:24 |
| @khenn | I fixed a corner case in WebGUI::Operation::ProfileSettings.pm which would cause the User Profile screen to not load if one of your custom form elements can not be instantiated | 00:25 |
| @khenn | yeah, it's not out yet | 00:25 |
| +perlDreamer | You just want me to check that fix in for you? | 00:25 |
| @khenn | I committed the fix, but I figure if you guys are fixing stuff today you could just add that one. It's undocumented | 00:25 |
| @khenn | I did it already | 00:25 |
| @khenn | just add it to the changelog | 00:26 |
| @khenn | if you would | 00:26 |
| +perlDreamer | sure! | 00:26 |
| @khenn | thx | 00:26 |
| @rizen | ok colin i'm looking at the code for recent changes | 00:26 |
| @preaction | did anyone add the RSSFromParent bugfix to the changelog? | 00:26 |
| @rizen | and it shows the title for each page | 00:26 |
| @rizen | each revision of the page | 00:26 |
| @rizen | as it was for that revision | 00:26 |
| @rizen | so what's the problem? | 00:27 |
| @rizen | yes | 00:27 |
| @rizen | i did preaction | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | if I remember right from IRC, you said that it should always use the most recent title | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | not the version specific title | 00:27 |
| @rizen | no | 00:27 |
| @rizen | it should be the version specific one | 00:27 |
| @rizen | what i did say is that we need to not link to it | 00:28 |
| +perlDreamer | all right | 00:28 |
| @rizen | if it's been deleted | 00:28 |
| @rizen | but instead create a restore link | 00:28 |
| +perlDreamer | when the edit interface with the delete link is templated, and all you send is the URL and not the whole link, how do you insert a JS confirmation? | 00:33 |
| @rizen | i don't know what you're asking | 00:35 |
| * PedersenMJ felt like he was part of Dr. Seuss explains TCP/IP. | 00:35 | |
| PedersenMJ | :s/was part/was reading part/ | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | part of the bug is to add a javascript confirmation for deleting a wiki page | 00:35 |
| @rizen | right and nothing changes about that | 00:36 |
| +perlDreamer | the delete link on the page is created by sending a URL and a label | 00:36 |
| @rizen | yeah, but recent changes aren't on that page | 00:36 |
| @rizen | if the asset is cut or in the trash | 00:36 |
| @rizen | you'll never even be able to se ethat page | 00:37 |
| @rizen | two different pages completely | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | Maybe you better explain the two parts of the bug to me again then | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought that I needed to create a JS confirmation for the wiki page edit screen. | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | and that a second part of the bug was a restore link for wiki pages that were deleted and displayed on the recent changes page | 00:38 |
| @rizen | ok on the front page of the wiki (wikimaster) and on the recent changes page (wikimaster) we shouldn't link to a page that has been deleted or is in the clipboard | 00:39 |
| @rizen | instead we should put up a restore link next to the title | 00:39 |
| @rizen | part 2 is the part you're working on and that is: | 00:39 |
| @rizen | in when looking at an individual wikipage you'll see a delete link if you are a wikiadmin | 00:40 |
| @rizen | that link should have a javascript confirmation | 00:40 |
| @rizen | our two bugs aren't even in the same asset | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | nope | 00:41 |
| @rizen | nope as in i'm wrong? | 00:41 |
| @rizen | or nope as in they aren't in the same asset | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | right | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | not in the same asset | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm asking about how to add the confirmation | 00:41 |
| @rizen | ok, so we're on the same page then? | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 00:41 |
| @rizen | you're adding a confirmation | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | right | 00:42 |
| @rizen | which is just javascript | 00:42 |
| @rizen | therefore | 00:42 |
| @rizen | it's all in the template | 00:42 |
| @rizen | plus one extra template variable from the server side | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the confirmation text | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | i18n'ed | 00:42 |
| @rizen | right | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | Okay, I think I understand why I'm confused | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | in wG, we don't prevent people from removing important parts of templates, like style or javascript | 00:43 |
| +perlDreamer | in this case, the confirmation | 00:43 |
| @rizen | nope | 00:43 |
| +perlDreamer | if someone has made a custom wikipage template, they'll have to add this in | 00:43 |
| @rizen | yup | 00:43 |
| +perlDreamer | great! | 00:43 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm golden then. | 00:43 |
| @rizen | that's both the gift and the curse of templates | 00:44 |
| +perlDreamer | this is the same talk you and snappy had last night? | 00:44 |
| @rizen | we didn't have a tlak | 00:45 |
| @rizen | talk | 00:45 |
| +perlDreamer | are we committing bugs, or holding off for release? | 01:03 |
| @rizen | commiting | 01:04 |
| @rizen | roy won't be back from class for many hours yet | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I've got the confirmation in and debugged | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | it's hard being slow | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | should we add a blurb to the gotchas file for the confirmation? | 01:06 |
| @rizen | if you like | 01:06 |
| @rizen | i'm still working on adding this restore link thing | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm going to commit this chunk | 01:09 |
| @rizen | noooooooooooooooo! | 01:11 |
| @rizen | just kidding | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I fixed another bug relating to escaping stuff in the CS RSS template | 01:18 |
| +perlDreamer | going to take a short break to play with the kids, back in 30 | 01:18 |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as afkDreamer | 01:19 | |
| @rizen | there done | 01:35 |
| @rizen | gotta go make food now | 01:35 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 01:40 | |
| @preaction | hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate HATE PHP APPLICATIONS | 01:48 |
| @rizen | yup | 01:49 |
| @rizen | incidentally | 01:49 |
| @rizen | squirrelmail comes in rpm form on centos | 01:49 |
| @rizen | you may want to try it that way | 01:49 |
| @preaction | i've been brute-forcing it, if this last try doesn't fix it, i'll just re-install it and have them go to town on it | 01:49 |
| @preaction | the semantic difference between "move a program" and "install a program" | 01:50 |
| @rizen | so has the customer agreed to pay for all this time you're putting in? | 01:51 |
| @preaction | well, when i thought it was as easy as installing an imap daemon, and found out that i've spent 50 minutes working through various error messages | 01:52 |
| @preaction | i don't know what vrby worked out | 01:52 |
| @rizen | call him | 01:52 |
| @rizen | you can't work indefinitely | 01:53 |
| @rizen | these ad-hoc contracts have a specific time associated with them | 01:53 |
| @rizen | usually 2 hours | 01:53 |
| @rizen | but sometimes longer | 01:53 |
| @preaction | ah | 01:53 |
| @preaction | they're typical users too, never clean out their e-mail trash... i'm sitting here while these messages get moved | 01:53 |
| @rizen | time is time | 01:54 |
| @preaction | i don't even know if sending/receiving will work because i haven't touched any configurations for those things | 01:54 |
| @rizen | you can't be doing something else | 01:54 |
| @rizen | are you talking to vrby yet | 01:54 |
| @rizen | do nothing else until you get a hold of him | 01:54 |
| @preaction | i believe i quoted 30-60 minutes and he said just do it, get it done quickly | 01:55 |
| @rizen | you're not hearing me | 01:55 |
| @rizen | i don't care what you believe | 01:55 |
| @rizen | i like facts | 01:55 |
| @rizen | call vrby now | 01:55 |
| @preaction | k | 01:55 |
| @preaction | voicemail | 01:57 |
| @rizen | i'll call his house | 01:57 |
| @rizen | vrby says stop | 02:00 |
| @rizen | you were alloted 1 hour for this additional work | 02:00 |
| @rizen | and you're there | 02:00 |
| @rizen | he's going to talk to the client tomorrow | 02:01 |
| @rizen | and figure out where to go | 02:01 |
| @preaction | k, let me restore it to working (the server that is) | 02:01 |
| -!- afkDreamer is now known as perlDreamer | 02:08 | |
| +perlDreamer | I'm back | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | what's next? | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | calendar recurring events? | 02:09 |
| -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui | 02:15 | |
| +perlDreamer | morning, jesse | 02:16 |
| Radix-wrk | mornin' | 02:19 |
| @preaction | oh god, don't look at the calendar recurring events things... *shame* | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, it can't be worse than the profile work I did last year | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I shut down pretty much all of wG for about 2 weeks | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | everything that used a form was broken | 02:36 |
| @preaction | lolol nice | 02:36 |
| @preaction | it's not bad, it's just ugly | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | ugly we can deal with | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | 'specially since you're so perty | 02:37 |
| @preaction | aww, shucks | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I won't look at it tonight | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm taking my kids out to dinner for my birthday | 02:38 |
| +perlDreamer | tell me this though | 02:38 |
| @preaction | you mean i have until tomorrow to make the major change that needs to happen for forward compatibility issues? | 02:39 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 02:39 |
| +perlDreamer | that will be when I bury you in newbie programmer type questions | 02:39 |
| +perlDreamer | like I did JT today ;) | 02:39 |
| @preaction | ah | 02:39 |
| @preaction | well, unlike SOME, i have documented my code | 02:39 |
| +perlDreamer | your code is well documented | 02:40 |
| @preaction | i'll just be damned about documenting the other stuff :p | 02:40 |
| @preaction | eventually, eventually | 02:40 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we could work a deal where I develop the skeleton and you provide the details? | 02:40 |
| @preaction | anyway, gtfo and enjoy yourself! | 02:40 |
| @preaction | the earth has revolved around the sun once more since your birth! | 02:40 |
| @preaction | (that means Happy Birthday in myspeak) | 02:41 |
| +perlDreamer | $preaction->translate("the earth has revolved around the sun once more since your birth!") | 02:41 |
| @preaction | i should make an i18n pack: Obfuscate | 02:42 |
| @preaction | or perhaps 1337 | 02:42 |
| @preaction | perlbot 1337 | 02:42 |
| @preaction | perlbot 1337 is The number of the leet. | 02:42 |
| perlbot | added 1337 to the database | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot tell snapcount about 1337 | 02:42 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""party!""] | 02:43 | |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 04:21 | |
| PedersenMJ | Good evening. How's things going? | 04:21 |
| Radix-wrk | Mornin' | 04:21 |
| PedersenMJ | nonono! It's evening! It's dark out :) | 04:23 |
| Radix-wrk | eeks.. getting a wierd error in webgui | 04:29 |
| Radix-wrk | List Users doesn't want to work | 04:29 |
| Radix-wrk | 2007/01/18 10:32:44 - ERROR - webgui.formsys.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::User::www_listUsers. Root cause: Undefined subroutine &WebGUI::Operation::User::www_listUsers called at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation.pm line 62. | 04:29 |
| @preaction | restart apache | 04:29 |
| Radix-wrk | seen that before? | 04:30 |
| @preaction | seen something like that before | 04:31 |
| @preaction | did tha twork? | 04:31 |
| Radix-wrk | looks like I gotta wipe /tmp/WebGUICache/ again first mod-perl refused to start - get that a lot actually | 04:31 |
| @preaction | modperl refused to start, look at the modperl error log | 04:31 |
| @preaction | it's not the cache | 04:31 |
| @preaction | it's probably the old instance hadn't shut down yet | 04:31 |
| @preaction | and since it was still running, the new instance couldn't bind to the port | 04:32 |
| @preaction | most likely if you start it again, it will just work | 04:32 |
| Radix-wrk | Can't make directory /tmp/WebGUICache/webgui.formsys.com.conf/wE401EXjGiFZwb-riCuiEg/OXOPXGkexzNxe3bire60Xw read+writeable: Operation not per | 04:32 |
| Radix-wrk | mitted at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Cache/FileCache.pm line 76 | 04:32 |
| @preaction | not Permitted? wtf? | 04:32 |
| Radix-wrk | rm -rf /tmp/WebGUICache fixes it every time | 04:32 |
| @preaction | is that a fatal error? probably not | 04:32 |
| Radix-wrk | mod-perl won't start until it's resolved | 04:33 |
| @preaction | maybe it was trying to create that when SIGTERM was sent | 04:33 |
| @preaction | but anyway, if clearing it fixes it | 04:33 |
| @preaction | someone remind me that the Auth system should be rebuilt for the 8.x milestone. this is just retarded... | 04:34 |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. still getting that error with listUsers.. | 04:34 |
| @preaction | what version? | 04:34 |
| Radix-wrk | 7.0.8 | 04:34 |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] | 04:35 | |
| @preaction | did you do anything to the code recently? | 04:35 |
| Radix-wrk | just those XSS patches | 04:35 |
| @preaction | and those patches were in that module | 04:35 |
| @preaction | crap | 04:36 |
| @preaction | i knew just telling people what to edit wasn't going to work :p | 04:36 |
| @rizen | that error is normal | 04:36 |
| @preaction | normal? | 04:37 |
| @rizen | the one about writing to cache | 04:37 |
| @rizen | yeah, it's cuz the cache system doesn't do any locking | 04:37 |
| @rizen | and it also doesn't check to see if the folder already exists before trying to create it | 04:37 |
| @rizen | it's very dumb | 04:37 |
| Radix-wrk | lemme try rolling it back | 04:37 |
| @rizen | i haven't yet decided whether i want to handle the exceptions, or just replace the cache | 04:37 |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. afraid it was those changes that caused listUsers to stop working | 04:38 |
| Radix-wrk | I manually applied those, so lemme check I did it right | 04:38 |
| @preaction | something you can try: . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment; cd /data/WebGUI/lib; perl -MWebGUI::Operation::User -e'print "OK";' | 04:40 |
| @preaction | if it prints "OK", then the module was loaded and has no syntax errors | 04:40 |
| Radix-wrk | I've rolled it back atm | 04:40 |
| Radix-wrk | [root@webgui Operation]# diff User.pm User.pm.patched | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | 421a422,423 | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | > my $postedUsername = $session->form->process("username"); | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | > $postedUsername = WebGUI::HTML::filter($postedUsername, "all"); | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | 423c425 | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | < && $session->form->process("username") ne '') | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | --- | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | > && $postedUsername ne '') ) | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | 431c433 | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | < $u->username($session->form->process("username")); | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | --- | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | > $u->username($postedUsername); | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | 458,459c460 | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | < my $username = $session->form->process("username"); | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | < $error = '<ul>' . sprintf($i18n->get(77), $username, $username, $username, $session->datetime->epochToHuman($session->datetime->time(),"%y")).'</ul>'; | 04:41 |
| Radix-wrk | --- | 04:41 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+b Radix-wrk!*@*] by preaction | 04:41 | |
| @preaction | when that calms down, let me know | 04:41 |
| @preaction | by private message | 04:41 |
| @preaction | perlbot tell Radix-wrk about paste | 04:42 |
| @preaction | http://rafb.net is another place to paste | 04:42 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-b Radix-wrk!*@*] by preaction | 04:42 | |
| Radix-wrk | was only a dozen lines :P | 04:43 |
| @preaction | it's a reflex, anything more than three lines should be put in a pastebin | 04:43 |
| Radix-wrk | wasn't registered with nickserv, so couldn't pm btw | 04:43 |
| @preaction | kinda figured something was up | 04:44 |
| Radix-wrk | http://sial.org/pbot/22484 | 04:44 |
| Radix-wrk | Ahh.. I see an extra bracket | 04:45 |
| @preaction | ah, the right paren after && $postedUsername | 04:46 |
| @preaction | also, if you've registered Radix, you can tie Radix-wrk to your main Radix name | 04:47 |
| @preaction | use /msg nickserv help link <- to learn how | 04:47 |
| Radix-wrk | I've registered radix-wrk now :) | 04:47 |
| @preaction | i've got preaction-m linked to preaction, so whenever i identify as preaction-m, i still get all my priviledges from preaction | 04:48 |
| Radix-wrk | okey.. the extra bracket was it.. bleh | 04:50 |
| Radix-wrk | got the XSS patches again :) | 04:50 |
| Radix-wrk | and your test line printed OK :) | 04:50 |
| @preaction | if you ever patch code like that again, doing that (except with a different -M option to perl) will check the syntax of the module and make sure nothing's very bad broken | 04:51 |
| @preaction | of course, if you somehow mess up but have valid syntax, that can't help you | 04:52 |
| Radix-wrk | heh, fair enough :) | 04:52 |
| Radix-wrk | thanks for your help btw :) | 05:01 |
| @preaction | np | 05:01 |
| @preaction | working late, various client stuff has put me behind | 05:01 |
| @preaction | i should have been done with this on monday, and it's late wednesday... :( | 05:02 |
| Radix-wrk | know what it's like :( | 05:02 |
| @preaction | that, and i'm supposed to use something that a retarded drunken monkey on a typewriter could've written better... | 05:04 |
| @rizen | what's that exactly? | 05:06 |
| @preaction | and now that i've had a chance to look at it, knowing the Auth system, this kid couldn't have been serious | 05:06 |
| @preaction | the Alumni auth plugin | 05:06 |
| @rizen | is that what drake wrote? | 05:06 |
| @preaction | yes | 05:06 |
| @preaction | the auth system itself works, it could just work better | 05:06 |
| @preaction | this... i don't even know wtf | 05:06 |
| @rizen | the auth subsystem in webgui is horrid | 05:06 |
| @rizen | i hate it | 05:06 |
| @rizen | but i have no idea what drake's code looks like | 05:07 |
| @preaction | you worked on the wiki, probably more of the same | 05:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, quick question for the PB'ers in the channel: This theme I'm working on has (by default) four sites listed in its "site network". I'm going to change them to something more appropriate for webgui. So far, for sites, I've got the self site (^/;), plainblack (http://www.plainblack.com/). What other two would you guys like to see in the uploaded package? | 05:16 |
| @preaction | webgui.org | 05:16 |
| @preaction | and perhaps getwebgui.com | 05:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay. webgui.org, definitely. getwebgui.com... Anything better? Could also put in a link to the community wiki on pb.com. | 05:17 |
| @preaction | that might be better, the wiki | 05:18 |
| @preaction | or even your personal site, i mean, you're making these things | 05:18 |
| @rizen | svn.webgui.org | 05:18 |
| @rizen | update.webgui.org | 05:18 |
| @rizen | webguiworldwide.org | 05:18 |
| @rizen | webguistore.com | 05:18 |
| @rizen | webguidev.com | 05:18 |
| @rizen | buildwebgui.com | 05:18 |
| PedersenMJ | I can get along with doing the wiki. Nah, not my personal site. No need for it. | 05:18 |
| @rizen | spreadwebgui.com | 05:19 |
| @rizen | designwebgui.com | 05:19 |
| PedersenMJ | JT, that might be just a teensy-weensy bit much :) Which four... spreadwebgui.com? Need to see that one. BRB. | 05:19 |
| PedersenMJ | spreadwebgui.com, definitely. | 05:19 |
| @rizen | translate.webgui.org | 05:20 |
| PedersenMJ | So, I'll put in 5. self, plainblack, webgui.org, wiki, and spreadwebgui.com | 05:20 |
| @rizen | i can keep going | 05:20 |
| @rizen | hehe | 05:20 |
| PedersenMJ | I don't doubt it. I was just wanting four or five. I think we hit that about 4 screenfuls ago :) | 05:20 |
| @rizen | actually | 05:22 |
| @rizen | if you're going to link to the wiki | 05:22 |
| @rizen | use wiki.webgui.org | 05:22 |
| @rizen | i'll add it quick | 05:22 |
| @rizen | cuz the actual url is changing soon | 05:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay. Hey, it'll take a couple days before I'm ready to upload. I'll remind you before I do so, though, to make sure it's ready to go. | 05:22 |
| @preaction | frank wrote the auth system? (says his People Behind wG thingy) | 05:24 |
| @rizen | yes | 05:24 |
| @preaction | i'm so going to start ripping on him for that | 05:24 |
| @rizen | granted it was while he was learning perl objects | 05:24 |
| @rizen | but still | 05:24 |
| @rizen | he already knew oo from java and c | 05:24 |
| @preaction | oh, in the before time, in the long long ago | 05:24 |
| @rizen | only 2 years ago | 05:25 |
| @rizen | so no | 05:25 |
| @rizen | not that long ago | 05:25 |
| @rizen | try http://wiki.webgui.org/ | 05:27 |
| @preaction | works | 05:27 |
| PedersenMJ | works here. | 05:28 |
| @rizen | my work here is done | 05:28 |
| @rizen | back to mythbusters | 05:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Stupid question: What's the proper spelling of the company name? "Plain Black", "PlainBlack", "plainblack", "plainblack.com", etc are all possibilities. If the name is to appear in print, how should it be spelled out? | 05:33 |
| @preaction | looks like Plain Black | 05:34 |
| @preaction | from the copyright notice at the bottom of plainblack.com (but I'm not sure, i always seem to mix and match a few of those) | 05:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Just wanting to make sure. It'd be kinda silly of me to post a theme with links to the company, and spell the company name wrong. | 05:35 |
| @preaction | indeed. i'd assume that "Plain Black" is correct until told otherwise, since it's on the site | 05:36 |
| @preaction | and that chick on mythbusters is hot, so i wouldn't expect jt back until late tonight ;) | 05:37 |
| PedersenMJ | I don't blame him, not in the least. Suffice to say that my marriage could definitely suffer if she showed up at my door :) | 05:38 |
| @preaction | ha, married, loser | 05:39 |
| * preaction hides jealousy through banter | 05:39 | |
| * snapcount returns in whirlwind of excellence | 05:39 | |
| * snapcount rubs his hands together real quick... "lets build us a new version of dis here WebGUI" | 05:40 | |
| PedersenMJ | And jealous you should be. She's also a geek. Not the same variety as me, but definitely a geek. She tends more towards installing wiring, alarms, and the like, though. And hot :) | 05:40 |
| @preaction | i swear all i can seem to find up here are emo/goth-wannabes and selfish/vapid whores | 05:41 |
| @snapcount | Holy shit | 05:43 |
| @snapcount | you guys have been busy | 05:43 |
| @snapcount | lots of commits while I was gone | 05:43 |
| PedersenMJ | http://photos.icelus.tzo.com/index.php?album=%2FAlaska2006-25-Wedding_Photos%2F&image=Micheal%20and%20Jessica006.JPG | 05:44 |
| PedersenMJ | That's a picture of me and her getting married, just this August. | 05:44 |
| @preaction | that doesn't help my jealousy... | 05:45 |
| @preaction | wait, alaska? | 05:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, browse through the rest of the album(s). At least take a virtual tour of Alaska. | 05:45 |
| @preaction | and would it've killed you to smile for crap's sake? | 05:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Yes, we got married in Alaska. Live in NJ, but someday hope to be able to afford the move to AK. | 05:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, yes, yes it would've. I've a rare condition which will split my head in two should my cheeks stretch too much. | 05:46 |
| @preaction | ahh, Bilateral Grinitis | 05:47 |
| @preaction | it's a horrible affliction | 05:47 |
| PedersenMJ | You've heard of it? Wow, most people haven't. I don't bother with the name because of that. | 05:47 |
| @snapcount | wow... how did you guys keep such a straight face and maintain perfect posture while standing perpendicular to the ground | 05:49 |
| @snapcount | that is amazing | 05:49 |
| @preaction | it's because alaska is 90 degrees from reality | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | of course | 05:50 |
| PedersenMJ | hermf. Sarcastic such-and-so's. Gonna have to hide things in themes about them, that's all there is to it. | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | excellent we like easter eggs | 05:50 |
| @preaction | wank? | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | have you found any in webgui yet? | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | they are there | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | most are pretty cool | 05:51 |
| @preaction | oh lord, i forget the ones i added | 05:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope. Then again, I rarely ever find them. I suck at most every form of hide and seek known to man. | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | here's a hint | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | op=theWg | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | ah hell, I'm feeling generous | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | op=genesis | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | there are several more | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | but that will get you started =) | 05:52 |
| @preaction | i should make a bot that looks for those easter eggs to find sites that use webgui | 05:53 |
| @snapcount | it would probably be easier to just search for the generator meta tag | 05:54 |
| @preaction | isn't that part of the style? | 05:54 |
| @snapcount | well it's sent from the head tags templ var | 05:54 |
| @snapcount | I think it is anyway | 05:54 |
| @preaction | i think it is too | 05:54 |
| @snapcount | I'm kind of bullshitting right now | 05:54 |
| @snapcount | =) | 05:54 |
| @preaction | meh, i'm avoiding work | 05:54 |
| @snapcount | b/c I'm too lazy to see if I'm right | 05:55 |
| @khenn | !!! | 05:57 |
| @khenn | =) | 05:57 |
| @khenn | I keep forgetting I have this thing open, and then there's like 8 hours of text to go through | 05:58 |
| @snapcount | heh nice | 05:58 |
| @khenn | timestamps would be nice | 05:58 |
| @snapcount | most irc clients have that as an option | 05:58 |
| @preaction | mirc? you can turn them on in the options | 05:58 |
| @snapcount | you just have to set it | 05:58 |
| * snapcount hears an echo snapcount hears an echo | 05:59 | |
| @snapcount | I amuse me | 05:59 |
| @preaction | it's because you lag :p | 05:59 |
| @preaction | you are not 1337 | 05:59 |
| @khenn | well would you look at that | 06:00 |
| @khenn | timestamps! | 06:00 |
| @snapcount | Eureka! | 06:00 |
| PedersenMJ | Pretty good show, actually. Looking forward to next season. | 06:01 |
| @snapcount | nice... someone(s) fixed the wiki bug I was going to stay up and do post release | 06:03 |
| @snapcount | ok... no more commits or I will kill you until you die from it | 06:04 |
| PedersenMJ | Just offer a good wheeling to the next person who commits. I promise, you'll only have to give out one of those. | 06:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, roy, you around? | 06:27 |
| @khenn | alright guys, I'm out | 06:28 |
| @khenn | later | 06:28 |
| -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] | 06:28 | |
| PedersenMJ | have a good one! | 06:28 |
| PedersenMJ | HTML Style Question (if anybody has a minute?). I'm working with this template: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2204 still. | 06:38 |
| PedersenMJ | My question: The way the template is built, it seems like I should put a top level navigation across the top (new navigation, relative to root, 1 level of descendants), and maybe put a second navigation underneath (new navigation, relative to current, show siblings), as long as current is not root. What do you guys think? | 06:40 |
| PedersenMJ | BTW, underneath means under the picture that we see there, next to that paragraph. | 06:40 |
| -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable 7.2.3 | beta 7.3.5) | WRE (0.7.2) | Use the Wiki: http://plainblack.com/support/community-wiki | Questions? Ask and wait patiently | http://mentalhouse.net/irc/webgui | 07:12 | |
| @rizen | someone should create a planet webgui site | 07:35 |
| @rizen | that brings together all the sites we build | 07:35 |
| @rizen | plus all the international sites | 07:35 |
| @rizen | plus the webgui user driven sites like radix' irc stats and crythias' faq | 07:35 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh. That turns into one problem that I've never found a good solution for, and even Google does it only so-so: How do you organize the data such that somebody unfamiliar with the topic can find what interests them? | 07:41 |
| PedersenMJ | If I could pull off *that* organizational trick, I'd put Google outside of business inside of a year. | 07:41 |
| PedersenMJ | erm, put Google out of business. | 07:42 |
| @rizen | hardly | 07:46 |
| PedersenMJ | After all, take a look at the number of sites you listed when I asked for the listing for the site network for this theme. And each of those can have any of a dozen categories placed on them, I think. svn.webgui.org? Development. Also: Old Versions. CMS Architecture. How to use mod_perl effectively. Apache2 and mod_perl2 sample scripts. MySQL5 sample code. And that's without thinking about it too hard. | 07:46 |
| @rizen | you'd be hard pressed to put google out of business in a year | 07:46 |
| @rizen | even if you were microsoft | 07:46 |
| @rizen | oracle | 07:46 |
| @rizen | sun | 07:46 |
| @rizen | yahoo | 07:46 |
| @rizen | and ebay | 07:46 |
| @rizen | put together | 07:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Fair enough, they've got enough money to stay in business for a very long time, even if they stopped selling everything tomorrow. | 07:47 |
| @rizen | hehe | 07:47 |
| PedersenMJ | However, the point is still valid: I can organize things in any of a hundred different ways. Provided I keep the list of things small enough, the organizational scheme will be easy to understand for most people. | 07:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Once the list of things grows large enough, though, the organization of it all becomes very challenging. Especially once you add other people's ideas about how to organize to the mix. | 07:49 |
| @rizen | 1 + 1 = 3 | 07:49 |
| @rizen | 2 + 2 = 6 | 07:50 |
| @rizen | 3 + 3 = 9 | 07:50 |
| @rizen | is my math getting better or worse | 07:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Even Google doesn't handle it wonderfully, though they seem to be the best at it so far. Though I find that once I start searching outside of my normal search space, I have a hard time finding the answers I'm seeking. | 07:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, I get your point, and am having a hard time communicating mine (it's almost 1am here, and after midnight, my ability to communicate starts to crap out). | 07:51 |
| @rizen | me thinks it's bedtime | 07:51 |
| PedersenMJ | You were wanting a planet webgui site. I'd love to see it. Would love to be able to do it, actually. But it's beyond my organizational skills. | 07:51 |
| PedersenMJ | I speak too much when it's late :) | 07:51 |
| PedersenMJ | You're right though, it is bedtime, and I'm going to go to bed before I embarass myself further. Have a good night. | 07:54 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 07:55 | |
| Radix-wrk | not my irc stats - xdanger's :) | 07:55 |
| Radix-wrk | Anyone know what causes these errors btw - got quite a few of them in the webgui logs (going back a while too)? - "2007/01/18 13:22:54 - ERROR - webgui.formsys.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - Asset constructor new() requires an assetId." | 07:59 |
| @preaction | something is trying to instanciate an asset without an asset Id | 08:10 |
| @preaction | this is usually very bad | 08:10 |
| Radix-wrk | it doesn't give any other info, so no idea how to track it down :( | 08:12 |
| Radix-wrk | I get prolly half a dozen of these a day | 08:13 |
| @preaction | that's one of those error messages that should give a full stack trace | 08:46 |
| -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] | 10:00 | |
| -!- iPhoneGuy [n=iPhoneGu@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui | 13:14 | |
| iPhoneGuy | hi | 13:14 |
| iPhoneGuy | wasn't the duplicate mail in CS bug fixed? Look at martink post http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/7_3_5-beta-release | 13:14 |
| -!- iPhoneGuy [n=iPhoneGu@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has quit ["Quitting!"] | 13:51 | |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui | 14:24 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ | 14:24 | |
| -!- diakopter [i=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui | 15:30 | |
| ckotil | Is there any document version control in wg? in addition to workflow versioning, im looking for checkin/out of the document, and to be able to go back a couple versions at will. | 15:43 |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui | 15:46 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ | 15:46 | |
| Radix__ | kinda | 15:47 |
| Radix__ | once you edit a document it becomes "checked out" so to speak | 15:47 |
| Radix__ | and until you commit the version it's locked for everyone else | 15:47 |
| ckotil | ah, thats true. | 15:47 |
| Radix__ | you can also select between multiple versions of a document easily when you edit it (and roll back that way) | 15:47 |
| Radix__ | on the right there's links to previous versions of the document with dates given | 15:48 |
| Radix__ | doesn't show version names or anything like that tho.. just dates.. like 3 weeks ago, 5 weeks ago, 6 months ago, etc | 15:48 |
| Radix__ | not really a full cvs system tho | 15:49 |
| Radix__ | can't have multiple checkouts or merges or anything like that | 15:49 |
| ckotil | that would be a sweet rfe | 15:49 |
| Radix__ | got karma? ;) | 15:50 |
| ckotil | ~1200 | 15:50 |
| ckotil | im looking at the worflow engine as a cvs now, and its actually pretty good. it might work for us | 15:50 |
| Radix__ | it's pretty cool | 15:50 |
| ckotil | can i click a date like 1 month ago and view what the document was at that point in time? (i cant really tell if thats what is going on now or not) | 15:51 |
| Radix__ | yep | 15:51 |
| ckotil | ok nice. | 15:51 |
| ckotil | thanks Radix__ | 15:51 |
| Radix__ | np | 15:51 |
| ckotil | getting my crew to really pay attention at the version tags as a way to checkin/out a document shold give them a better understanding of webgui | 15:52 |
| ckotil | does the collaboration system offer any checkin/out? | 15:52 |
| Radix__ | yup.. I had to train everyone on how to use them at my work too, but now they couldn't live without it | 15:53 |
| Radix__ | nah, the cs system doesn't | 15:53 |
| ckotil | does project management? | 15:53 |
| Radix__ | no idea | 15:53 |
| ckotil | ill find out. ive been going through some assets this morning looking for the functionality i want | 15:54 |
| Radix__ | demo.plainblack.com :) | 15:54 |
| ckotil | ah good point. im using my development instance of wg | 15:55 |
| Radix__ | yup.. that'll do it :) | 15:55 |
| Radix__ | demo is a nice way of checking the current version tho.. and seeing what's new if you're not using the latest | 15:55 |
| ckotil | yeah | 15:55 |
| Radix__ | but yeah, I have vmware setups with copies of our /data dir on em :) | 15:55 |
| Radix__ | that I use for testing | 15:55 |
| ckotil | nice | 15:55 |
| ckotil | im running 7.2.1 | 15:56 |
| Radix__ | that's where the wre really shines | 15:56 |
| ckotil | i keep it fairly up2dte | 15:56 |
| Radix__ | backup the whole /data dir and copy it to another machine and voila, just works | 15:56 |
| ckotil | i tried to install the wre on our RHAS4 machines and it would never compile | 15:56 |
| Radix__ | we're using 7.0.8 atm | 15:56 |
| ckotil | sweet | 15:56 |
| ckotil | i also couldnt get it to compile on fbsd 6.1 | 15:57 |
| Radix__ | using CentOS 4.3 (RHEL4) and the binary RHEL4 WRE | 15:57 |
| ckotil | err maybe it was 6.0 | 15:57 |
| Radix__ | binary wre would be way easier than source | 15:57 |
| ckotil | im sure it is | 15:57 |
| Radix__ | especially as it's built for the RHEL setups | 15:57 |
| ckotil | interesting. ill look into that some day | 15:58 |
| Radix__ | definitely worth it :) | 15:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | you could check out ubuntu server edition | 15:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | there's a wre binary for that too | 15:58 |
| Radix__ | sure, but if he's already using RH then he might as well try the wre binary for it ;) | 15:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure enough | 15:58 |
| ckotil | ill stick it on the dev box. will it work in conjunction with apache running? | 15:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 15:59 |
| ckotil | ah | 15:59 |
| Radix__ | not if it's on the same port | 15:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | unless you set apache | 15:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | to listen to a diffrent ip | 15:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | or prt | 15:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | port | 15:59 |
| Radix__ | nor will mysql like any existing /etc/my.cnf files | 16:00 |
| ckotil | ok, that shouldnt be a big deal | 16:00 |
| ckotil | aww | 16:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | it isn't | 16:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | i have a setup | 16:00 |
| ckotil | can i have it use a different .cnf file? | 16:00 |
| Radix__ | put apache on a diff port, and use the mod-proxy with the wre to forward it | 16:00 |
| Radix__ | the wre has everything you need | 16:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | with the wre and the vanilla ubuntu apache | 16:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes | 16:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | i do it that way | 16:00 |
| ckotil | cool | 16:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | works perfectly | 16:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | and it keeps load from the other apache | 16:01 |
| Radix__ | yup - fast too | 16:01 |
| ckotil | would you say wre performs better than from source install? | 16:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | very likely | 16:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | the wre is compiled with webgu in mind | 16:02 |
| Radix__ | not ever had a success compiling the wre myself - but the binary is great | 16:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 16:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | compiling it can be a pain | 16:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | i tried it for gentoo | 16:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | it just kept failing | 16:02 |
| ckotil | gentoo gets annoying real fast | 16:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | \cost me a weekend | 16:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | i hate gentoo | 16:03 |
| ckotil | ya. lol | 16:03 |
| Radix__ | Well I'm off to bed.. night guys :) | 16:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | but it is the os of choice of procolix | 16:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | later | 16:03 |
| ckotil | night | 16:03 |
| * ckotil just woke up | 16:03 | |
| Radix__ | 11pm here :) | 16:03 |
| * MrHairgrease fell asleep on the couch | 16:03 | |
| +MrHairgrease | 1500 over here | 16:03 |
| ckotil | 1400 | 16:04 |
| ckotil | errr. thats UTC , its 900 | 16:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm in holland | 16:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | so that's utc+1 i gues | 16:05 |
| ckotil | ya | 16:05 |
| ckotil | you ever eat those wiener shnitzels that everyone in holland offers up to tourists? | 16:05 |
| ckotil | i forget what they're called but they have some disgusting name | 16:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | I sometimes eat Wiener schnitzels yes | 16:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | there named after Vienna | 16:06 |
| ckotil | im thinking of something else then | 16:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | In austria Vienna == Wien | 16:06 |
| ckotil | bc locals do not eat this stuff, so im told | 16:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | I know you are | 16:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | but it's more a german recepy | 16:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | and austrian | 16:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | In holland we have other foods | 16:07 |
| xdanger | 1600 here... | 16:07 |
| ckotil | all my friends who have visited amsterdam say the locals told them they should get this food. and then i met a guy from holland and he said whateevr i do , do not eat that food | 16:09 |
| ckotil | i wonder wtf it was called... | 16:09 |
| xdanger | time to _go_ to work =( | 16:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | i dunno what food you're talking about | 16:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | xdanger: have fun | 16:10 |
| xdanger | I won't =) | 16:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's a dirty job | 16:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | but someone has gotta do it | 16:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | and that someone | 16:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | is YOU =) | 16:11 |
| xdanger | damn | 16:12 |
| xdanger | =) | 16:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | what job do you have to do? | 16:12 |
| xdanger | basic bussiness stuff... billing, paying bills, write a contract... | 16:15 |
| xdanger | I hate it =) | 16:15 |
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| PedersenMJ | g'morning | 17:04 |
| ckotil | Good morning | 17:12 |
| ckotil | We have a new reporting tool that is about to go into production. We want to automate the last step of getting the new reports into webgui. A cgi script that would save the file into webgui would be ideal. Can this be done? will we have ot create a custom wobject? | 17:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure it is | 17:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | but why do you want to use a cgi script | 17:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | is the reportingtool connecting through https? | 17:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | http* | 17:15 |
| ckotil | yes | 17:15 |
| ckotil | we dont have to use a cgi script | 17:16 |
| ckotil | that's just how ive done this in the past | 17:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | if the reporting tool resides on the same server | 17:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | just write a utility script | 17:16 |
| ckotil | its on a remote server | 17:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | and if you wanna do it with cgi | 17:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | just make a utilityscript that uses cgi | 17:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | you can use the webgui api in your cgi | 17:17 |
| ckotil | yes. i would like to use the api. | 17:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | there are a couple of utility scripts in the sbin dir | 17:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | as well as a skeleton for generic utility scripts | 17:18 |
| ckotil | i see fileImport.pl | 17:19 |
| ckotil | that should be useful | 17:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | it is | 17:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | the upgrade script kinda use the same method too | 17:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you wnat to put you report in a new article under some page | 17:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | you do something like | 17:20 |
| ckotil | will a version tag be created when using the fileImport? | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes | 17:20 |
| ckotil | good deal. | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | but you can commit that tag from the code | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | you can also use an open tag | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | but you have to set that manually | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | you should view those scripts as browing webgui from the indsie | 17:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | inside* | 17:21 |
| * ckotil nods | 17:21 | |
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| @khenn | buenas dias! | 17:37 |
| PedersenMJ | buenos dias, khenn. Como estas? | 17:41 |
| ckotil | fileImport works as expected. we are left with an open version tag that needs to be commited. We want this process to be automated, how can we automatically commit the version tag thats created from fileImport? | 17:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | see the skeleton file | 17:43 |
| ckotil | ok | 17:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | # my $versionTag = WebGUI::VersionTag->getWorking($session); # $versionTag->commit; | 17:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's in the finish routine | 17:44 |
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| PedersenMJ | hey, perlm, how goes it? | 17:44 |
| perlm | Very well | 17:44 |
| perlm | http://casr-test.ou.edu | 17:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Did you get it converted to webgui already? | 17:45 |
| perlm | Porting the site right now (I've given up on our web guy to be of any help). | 17:45 |
| ckotil | thx MrHairgrease | 17:45 |
| perlm | the design is all done, just movign content. | 17:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | my pleasure | 17:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Nice job. I guess you see that we were telling the truth about it being easy :) | 17:46 |
| perlm | putting together an example survey/report for one of the scientists to start familiarizing herself with, so she can create nifty stuff herself. Things are great! | 17:46 |
| perlm | yeah, it was incredible. Thanks so much for all the help. | 17:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | the api is the single best thing in wg imho | 17:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Didn't do much other than tell you where to look :) | 17:46 |
| perlm | I'm much more at home looking at the API and how to tack in custom stuff than I am with CSS and templates. | 17:47 |
| pjesi | guys, how is it possible to add images to the photo gallery? It just displays suscribe or search | 17:47 |
| PedersenMJ | The theme I'm working on now will be somewhat more difficult for people to use, unfortunately. There's a couple of snippets, one of which they are actually going to be expected to edit. And a directory to place some quotes. | 17:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Which reminds me: Any PB'ers in the house? Since I'm making this theme having webgui/plain black links and look-n-feel, I need to ask for some stuff from you guys. Specifically, half a dozen or so quotes from customer testimonials that I can throw into this. | 17:49 |
| perlm | Sounds like a pretty cool theme. | 17:49 |
| PedersenMJ | This one is. Burned was very simple, didn't do much. This one adds a lot. Hang on, lemme grab a link to the unported version. | 17:50 |
| perlm | pjesi I'm very new to WebGUI, but have you tried clearing the cache? | 17:50 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2204 | 17:50 |
| PedersenMJ | pjesi: I haven't touched the photo gallery yet, so am unable to reall help out at all, I'm sorry to say. | 17:51 |
| pjesi | perlm: just jumped into fresh instance at demo.pb | 17:51 |
| perlm | Oh wow, that is slick looking. | 17:51 |
| pjesi | I hate how good I am at doing webgui templates | 17:52 |
| PedersenMJ | It is, and the end result should be really pleasant to use, I think. I'm planning on using it for my personal web site. | 17:52 |
| PedersenMJ | pjesi: Please, do more! I'm working on adding them and uploading to the contrib at pb.com. | 17:53 |
| pjesi | PedersenMJ: I was going to contribute my Ajax calendar template but then the calendar was rewritten, so it is useless | 17:54 |
| pjesi | and now I just got specification for several "Assets" I am supposed to program as well as ~20-30 photoshop to implement as templates | 17:55 |
| pjesi | does that seem a little unrealistic to you? | 17:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Depends, really. What's the deadline for them? | 17:56 |
| pjesi | I have to implement the templates before 1st of March | 17:57 |
| ckotil | damn, id say thats at least an entire month of work | 17:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, it definitely would be. I'm converting existing html/css, and it takes me most of 1 day per. To create, from scratch, that many before mar 1 would be pretty tough, if not impossible. | 17:58 |
| ckotil | i bet you would get real good at it after a couple days | 17:59 |
| pjesi | yes I told them I could do the html/css/js stuff before the deadline, but more than that is impossible | 17:59 |
| pjesi | well, I could make a webgui theme of that andreas open souce template in a day | 18:00 |
| PedersenMJ | That's about how long it's taking me. | 18:00 |
| pjesi | but the advantage of the is you have the images, html, and css, you only need to decorate webgui with it, I have only PSD files | 18:01 |
| ckotil | ya, thats rough. | 18:02 |
| ckotil | do you cut them up? | 18:02 |
| pjesi | anyone know how PSD support is in Gimp | 18:02 |
| ckotil | or just recreate it in html | 18:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Exactly. That's why I said it would be difficult, if not impossible, before Mar 1 to do that many. If you have the html and css done in advance, one/day is feasible. | 18:02 |
| ckotil | once i installed PS i've never touched gimp | 18:02 |
| perlm | The only way to add images to WebGUI is via the assets interface? Or is there something else I'm missing? | 18:02 |
| pjesi | I cut the gradients, logos and other stuff that is not possible with CSS | 18:02 |
| @rizen | pjesi: you have to commit a CS before you can add content to it. | 18:03 |
| pjesi | rizen: thank you! | 18:03 |
| pjesi | I should have known that | 18:03 |
| pjesi | my biggest concern atm is that the clients hate the content management system in webgui, and content is not multilingual | 18:05 |
| @rizen | multi-lingugual content objects don't really make a lot of sense from what I'm told | 18:08 |
| @rizen | i only speak english (barely) and garbled crap (native), so i can't say | 18:09 |
| @rizen | but our translation team tells me that multi-lingual content objects are dumb | 18:09 |
| @rizen | because then the site would assume that the same content applies to everyone | 18:09 |
| @rizen | which it doesn't | 18:10 |
| @rizen | and that things like ordering of the navs | 18:10 |
| @rizen | or the layout of the content is consistent between languages and cultures | 18:10 |
| @rizen | which it isn't | 18:10 |
| pjesi | well, it is solved extremely well imo in Plone | 18:11 |
| @rizen | but other than the multi-lingual content objects, why do your clients hate it? | 18:11 |
| pjesi | I have not spoken to them directly (I just get complains from co-workers that do), but it is something very unpleasant about the interface I guess | 18:14 |
| pjesi | one of the complaints that I do remember is that the content does not look the same on the published page as it does in the asset manager | 18:16 |
| @rizen | do you mean rich editor (not asset manager)? | 18:18 |
| pjesi | I mean the WYSIWYG editor in the admin | 18:19 |
| @rizen | yeah, the rich editor | 18:20 |
| @rizen | that can make the content look exactly like the content on the page | 18:20 |
| @rizen | it just takes one configuration directive from you | 18:21 |
| pjesi | apply css to the admin template? | 18:21 |
| @rizen | you have to add a link to your style sheet into the config of the rich editor | 18:21 |
| @rizen | no...the rich editor is an asset like a snippet | 18:21 |
| @rizen | you just have to edit it | 18:21 |
| pjesi | I see | 18:21 |
| @rizen | and there is a field for the URL to your style sheet | 18:21 |
| pjesi | can I load the editor in the content container within the page layout instead of opening it in the admin interface? | 18:23 |
| pjesi | perhaps, using the www_ajaxInline function | 18:24 |
| pjesi | that might be nice | 18:24 |
| @rizen | no | 18:25 |
| @rizen | we used to do that but we ran into too many problems | 18:25 |
| @rizen | people's content would get in the way of some fields | 18:25 |
| @rizen | or their content area wasn't big enough for the edit form | 18:25 |
| @rizen | or some stylesheet property interfered with the operation of the editor | 18:26 |
| @rizen | or some javascript screwed up something | 18:26 |
| @rizen | so that's when we went to the admin interface | 18:26 |
| @rizen | it's there to protect the users | 18:26 |
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| pjesi | I see | 18:27 |
| @rizen | the worst part about all of the above | 18:28 |
| @rizen | is when it happened | 18:28 |
| @rizen | sometimes it was so bad that the user couldn't even get out of it | 18:28 |
| @rizen | meaning, they made some change | 18:28 |
| @rizen | that screwed up the forms entirely | 18:28 |
| @rizen | and then the only way to fix it | 18:28 |
| @rizen | was to edit the database directly | 18:28 |
| @rizen | cuz the user interface was so broken | 18:28 |
| @rizen | that it broke the forms from being able to fix it | 18:29 |
| @rizen | this way at least, you're guaranteed that your editing interface will continue to work | 18:29 |
| @rizen | no matter how badly you screw up your site. =) | 18:29 |
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| @rizen | am i reading your profile right, you're in israel? | 18:31 |
| pjesi | me? | 18:32 |
| @rizen | yes | 18:32 |
| pjesi | no | 18:33 |
| pjesi | I'm living in Oxford, UK. But I'm from Iceland | 18:33 |
| @rizen | iceland | 18:33 |
| @rizen | sorry, i thought .is was israel | 18:33 |
| +MrHairgrease | me too | 18:33 |
| pjesi | haha | 18:34 |
| @rizen | .il is israel | 18:34 |
| @rizen | now that i'm looking at it | 18:34 |
| @rizen | http://www.iana.org/root-whois/index.html#i | 18:34 |
| @rizen | so do you speak the hardest language on earth to learn? (icelandic) | 18:35 |
| @rizen | i don't know that it's the hardest language...i just know from a few translator friends that it's pretty damn hard | 18:35 |
| pjesi | yes, I am a native speaker | 18:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | finish should be very hard too | 18:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | and hungarian | 18:36 |
| @rizen | and dutch =) | 18:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | nah | 18:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | that isn't hard | 18:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | if i can speak it... | 18:37 |
| pjesi | dutch is easy, dont know hungarian | 18:37 |
| @rizen | and as long as we're spouting off languages: spanish, german, french, cantonese, mandarin, japanese | 18:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | what about swahili? | 18:37 |
| @rizen | i can barely speak english | 18:37 |
| @rizen | so for me all languages are hard | 18:38 |
| pjesi | I speak Icelandic, English, Danish, and German | 18:38 |
| pjesi | but my danish and german are getting rusty of all this english | 18:38 |
| PedersenMJ | I speak english. Hablo espanol bastante bien. Por lo menos, yo creo asi. And that's all I speak as far as languages go. | 18:39 |
| pjesi | :) | 18:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Since IRC doesn't support (as far as I know) accents and n with ~, I didn't even try to put those in :) | 18:39 |
| pjesi | one question about webgui, if I provide translations in manymany strange languages, can a single webgui site change between them as the user changes languages | 18:40 |
| pjesi | because I have a lot of translation resources but I dont see it feasible to use them since the multilingual functionality is so limited | 18:43 |
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| @rizen | you mean like is done on this webgui site: http://www.ilance.nl/ | 18:44 |
| pjesi | yeah something like this, if it in fact changes the translation of the labels | 18:46 |
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| pjesi | http://www.ilance.nl/nl/contact | 18:46 |
| pjesi | here, "Send" is dutch? | 18:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Somehow, it's fitting that the first system crash I see on a Mac comes from installing Microsoft software. | 18:46 |
| pjesi | haha | 18:47 |
| @rizen | true | 18:47 |
| @rizen | the language chosen is based upon what user you are | 18:47 |
| @rizen | not what page you are on | 18:47 |
| @rizen | so in this case, you're the visitor user | 18:47 |
| @rizen | if you want it to work the other way, then just submit an RFE | 18:48 |
| @rizen | and rally all the multilingual troops behind you to get it moved to the top of the list | 18:48 |
| pjesi | :) | 18:49 |
| pjesi | I think it is stupid, the time and money that is spent on managing huge website in multiple languages is far more than teaching the visitors English! | 18:50 |
| pjesi | note to self, never agree to work on a multilingual software | 18:51 |
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| @rizen | pjesi, you'll never convince the french or italians of that | 18:53 |
| @rizen | "english" is a vile word in those countries | 18:53 |
| pjesi | they are easier to manipulate than the russians | 18:53 |
| @rizen | yeah, but the russians teach all their children english starting with the first grade | 18:54 |
| pjesi | but their teachers are awful | 18:54 |
| @rizen | that may be true | 18:54 |
| @rizen | i've only known wealthy russians | 18:54 |
| @rizen | so they went to private schools | 18:55 |
| pjesi | hehe | 18:55 |
| @rizen | colin, i fyou care i'm working on http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/content-in-packages-made-from-page-layout-dont-include-content#LKqq1pg017uRs8YsM_1iVg | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | cool | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm going to fix the failing test from last night | 18:56 |
| pjesi | it looks like Plone satisfies all my multilingual requirements, so perhaps I will migrate | 18:56 |
| @rizen | k | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | then I'll be back at it again | 18:56 |
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| @rizen | sorry to hear that, but it's much better that you get the right tool right away than try to shoehorn something that doesn't work | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | pjesi: is the sticking point multilingual content vs multilingual interface? | 18:57 |
| pjesi | perlDreamer: they want both | 18:58 |
| pjesi | for me, it doesnt matter which cms is used, I only provide the templates | 18:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | would they be willing to use WebGUI and add the multilingual content later? | 18:58 |
| pjesi | for the prototype they are managing the ml content using /en/ /ru/ prefixes of URs | 18:59 |
| pjesi | URLs | 18:59 |
| pjesi | for most sites, I suppose that is fair enough | 19:00 |
| ckotil | this bug might be broader than the description says. i was just trying to create my own page layout as directed in the google sitemap using webgyu wiki entry | 19:00 |
| ckotil | and nothing would get displayed | 19:00 |
| ckotil | but when i would look at the navigation asset that is contained within the page layout , the xml i wanted would be outputed. | 19:01 |
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| -!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: Stop Chatting and Earn Cash, Prizes, and Fame! http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/webgui-community-contests-return | 19:04 | |
| +perlDreamer | w00t! | 19:04 |
| @snapcount | I've been so amped about getting this off the ground | 19:05 |
| @snapcount | finally | 19:05 |
| @snapcount | this year is going to be awesome for the community | 19:05 |
| @snapcount | I can feel it in thy bones | 19:05 |
| @snapcount | and Steve promises me he's going to make my page look a bit more "zippy" and less like a developer made it =) | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | nice | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | but I do | 19:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | think the page misses some zest | 19:07 |
| @snapcount | heh indeed | 19:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's not zippy enough =) | 19:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | j/k | 19:07 |
| @snapcount | I just couldn't wait to get you guys started and Steve apparently has to "work" or something | 19:07 |
| @snapcount | I don't understand that whole thing | 19:07 |
| pjesi | $250.00 Cash!! | 19:07 |
| @snapcount | he needs to get his priorities straight cough* cough* | 19:07 |
| pjesi | no wait, that is .00 | 19:07 |
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| pjesi | I read 250,000$ | 19:08 |
| @snapcount | that would definitely generate some interest | 19:08 |
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| @snapcount | hell, we might even make digg with that | 19:08 |
| @khenn | so there is a problem with the checkbox form control | 19:08 |
| @khenn | which makes it not work in user profiles | 19:08 |
| @khenn | and that is | 19:08 |
| @snapcount | are the checkmarks facing the wrong way? | 19:08 |
| @khenn | value is set to whatever defaultValue is set to | 19:09 |
| @khenn | or should be | 19:09 |
| @khenn | but it's actually set to what is stored in the database | 19:09 |
| @khenn | and it is never checked | 19:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | so snapcount | 19:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | please tel what the winning subject will be | 19:09 |
| diakopter | can screenshots be put into a wiki entry? | 19:09 |
| @khenn | I'm not sure how to fix this ... | 19:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | and i'll start writing =) | 19:09 |
| pjesi | well, I think WG desperately needs more free themes if it aims for the community | 19:09 |
| @snapcount | hah | 19:09 |
| @snapcount | the winning subject will be about WebGUI | 19:10 |
| @snapcount | pjesi: we agree | 19:10 |
| @khenn | checkbox is expecting value to be passed in as checked | 19:10 |
| * MrHairgrease prepares for a very long writing session | 19:10 | |
| @snapcount | and I'll give you a bit of insider info | 19:10 |
| @khenn | well for now, I'm going to write my own control | 19:10 |
| @snapcount | that's the next contest | 19:10 |
| @khenn | eh | 19:10 |
| diakopter | form controls? | 19:10 |
| @khenn | yeah | 19:10 |
| @khenn | to fix this I think you have to break the API | 19:10 |
| @snapcount | it's only broke in the Profiles though khenn ? | 19:11 |
| @khenn | right | 19:11 |
| @snapcount | that's very odd | 19:11 |
| @khenn | it's not | 19:11 |
| @khenn | b/c in code, people use it correctly | 19:11 |
| @khenn | the Profile System uses it incorrectly | 19:11 |
| @snapcount | so why will that break the API | 19:11 |
| @khenn | Checkbox is written incorrectly | 19:11 |
| @snapcount | it's implemented wrong in the Profile you mean? | 19:12 |
| @khenn | where everything else expects "value" | 19:12 |
| @khenn | Checkbox expects "-checked" | 19:12 |
| @khenn | hmm | 19:12 |
| pjesi | snapcount: good to hear | 19:12 |
| @khenn | checkboxes actually work differently than normal forms in that fashion | 19:12 |
| @snapcount | don't tell anyone though pjesi | 19:13 |
| @khenn | where the value is actually the thing | 19:13 |
| @snapcount | that's classified top secret priority 10 alpha 3 | 19:13 |
| pjesi | :) | 19:13 |
| @snapcount | an offense punishable by repeated slaps with an overly large sea bass | 19:13 |
| @khenn | so what the profile does, is it gets the value out of the database and sets that to -value | 19:14 |
| @khenn | instead, it should get the value out of the database and match it against the defaultValue, passing in -checked=>defaultValue eq value | 19:14 |
| @khenn | maybe I can fix this | 19:14 |
| @rizen | snapcount | 19:14 |
| @rizen | just noticed two bugs | 19:15 |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrCookingGrease | 19:15 | |
| @rizen | Plain Black Corporation doesn't have a comma in it | 19:15 |
| @rizen | Corperation | 19:15 |
| @snapcount | doh! | 19:15 |
| @snapcount | where is that | 19:15 |
| @rizen | and, you should use the new wiki address | 19:15 |
| @snapcount | on the page or in the news | 19:15 |
| @rizen | http://wiki.webgui.org | 19:15 |
| @rizen | on the wcc page | 19:16 |
| @snapcount | when did that come to exist | 19:16 |
| @rizen | yesterday | 19:16 |
| @snapcount | sweet | 19:16 |
| @snapcount | ok, I'll fix it | 19:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh, snap, I'm some small part of the reason it came to exist, since that address is going into theme I'm (hopefully) finishing tonight. | 19:18 |
| @snapcount | nicely done | 19:18 |
| @snapcount | tis a good idea | 19:18 |
| PedersenMJ | I was going to use the current longer url. JT told me to use the wiki.webgui.org one, though, and made it while I waited. | 19:19 |
| @snapcount | rizen: are you saying I spelled corporation as corperation some where? | 19:20 |
| @snapcount | I don't see that one | 19:20 |
| @rizen | no | 19:20 |
| @rizen | just the comma was what i was trying to get across | 19:20 |
| @snapcount | ok | 19:20 |
| @snapcount | ok | 19:20 |
| @snapcount | it | 19:22 |
| @snapcount | err | 19:22 |
| @snapcount | it's all fixed up | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | oh I suck | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I really suck | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I really do | 19:25 |
| @khenn | you do? | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | it's true | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I broke my own rule about running tests before committing | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | and now 7.3.5 has broken Help | 19:26 |
| @khenn | rizen: I'm fixing checkbox to work properly in the profile | 19:26 |
| @khenn | rizen: I want to know if you agree with this - | 19:26 |
| @khenn | rizen: defaultValue will become the value of the checkbox | 19:26 |
| @khenn | rizen: the actual data stored will be compared to the defaultValue, and checked will be set if the comparison evaluates to true | 19:27 |
| @rizen | as long as it has the same interface as the other forms, i don't care | 19:28 |
| @rizen | but if you're saying the the defaultValue property will have the same meaning as the value property | 19:28 |
| @rizen | then i have to disagree | 19:28 |
| @rizen | because that's not how all the other forms work | 19:28 |
| @khenn | I understand that | 19:29 |
| @khenn | but | 19:29 |
| @khenn | value in the checkbox sets the value attribute | 19:29 |
| @khenn | which is *not* the actual value | 19:29 |
| @khenn | it is the value of the checkbox | 19:30 |
| @khenn | but it is not whether or not the value is checked | 19:30 |
| @rizen | right | 19:30 |
| @rizen | cuz "checked' is that | 19:30 |
| @khenn | basically there is no way to set what the actual *value* of a checkbox should be | 19:30 |
| @khenn | using the profile system | 19:30 |
| @rizen | then don't use a checkbox | 19:30 |
| @rizen | heh | 19:30 |
| @khenn | should I disable it in the profile then? | 19:30 |
| @khenn | b/c it doesn't work | 19:30 |
| @rizen | either that, or add a special case to the profiling system to be able to handle that field type | 19:31 |
| @rizen | either way, don't change the form | 19:31 |
| @rizen | cuz it works as it should | 19:31 |
| @khenn | no, I'm not changing the form | 19:31 |
| @khenn | I was adding a special case to the Profile system | 19:31 |
| @rizen | ok | 19:31 |
| @rizen | that's fine then | 19:31 |
| @khenn | which will treat defaultValue as the value | 19:31 |
| @khenn | and compare the actual value to the default value to set the checked flag | 19:32 |
| @khenn | alright then | 19:32 |
| @khenn | it shall be so | 19:32 |
| @khenn | I'll also update the documentation to reflect this change | 19:34 |
| @snapcount | earlier someone asked if you can put screen shots in a wiki entry | 19:35 |
| @snapcount | who was that? | 19:35 |
| diakopter | that was ME | 19:35 |
| @snapcount | the answer is yes, unless we disabled that on our site | 19:35 |
| @snapcount | I don't think we have | 19:36 |
| @snapcount | you insert them inline using the RTE | 19:36 |
| diakopter | offchannel someone answered no | 19:36 |
| @snapcount | was it rizen ? | 19:36 |
| @snapcount | hold on | 19:36 |
| @snapcount | I'll try it | 19:36 |
| @snapcount | you can do it | 19:36 |
| @snapcount | In the RTE, click on "Insert WebGUI IMage" icon | 19:37 |
| @snapcount | click on the media link at the top | 19:37 |
| @snapcount | you'll see an option to upload an image | 19:37 |
| @snapcount | you can even organize them into folders if you want | 19:37 |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui | 19:42 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ | 19:42 | |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: OSCON CFP is open | 19:45 |
| +perlDreamer | guys, say Hi to my friend Jim. He's starting to use wG | 19:57 |
| @rizen | hi jim | 19:59 |
| @rizen | roy, that's supposed to be disabled | 20:00 |
| PedersenMJ | hi jim | 20:00 |
| +perlDreamer | Jim started using the WRE to host his website | 20:01 |
| +perlDreamer | we're debuggin some problems with his config | 20:01 |
| +perlDreamer | he only sees wG on port 81 | 20:01 |
| @rizen | is he already running another web server on port 80? | 20:02 |
| @rizen | and therefore the WRE can't start modproxy on it | 20:02 |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 20:02 | |
| +perlDreamer | we'll check | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | hrm | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | we'll check later | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | this machine isn't poked through his firewall | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | we | 20:04 |
| @rizen | where is jim | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | we'll shell in and try wget | 20:04 |
| @rizen | i don't see him in the channel | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | reading over my shoulder | 20:04 |
| @rizen | ah | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | He's our lead digital designer and car hacker | 20:05 |
| @rizen | sweet | 20:05 |
| @rizen | i need a good car hack | 20:05 |
| @rizen | i want to run my car on garbage | 20:05 |
| @rizen | like back to the future | 20:05 |
| @rizen | could he invent a mr fusion for me? | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | think Monster Garage type car hacker | 20:05 |
| @rizen | yeah, but you also said hes a digital designer | 20:06 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, you need a physicist and a chemist | 20:06 |
| @rizen | you have to know some physics to do electronics engineering | 20:06 |
| @rizen | and i know a really good chemist | 20:06 |
| @rizen | actually come to think of it, one of my friends is a leading physicist at mayo | 20:07 |
| @rizen | mayo research that is, not the hospital | 20:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Worst part is that I thought mayo, as in mayonnaise, and wondered who would want to spend their career studying the physics of it. | 20:12 |
| ckotil | i would, with some bacon, lettuce, tomato, and bread. tastey research | 20:14 |
| PedersenMJ | And, I would imagine, a fairly short career. Just hope you get sufficient grant money for it. | 20:16 |
| @rizen | i think they do that at hamburger university (mc donalds) | 20:17 |
| PedersenMJ | I don't know what's more frightening: That McD's has a "university" of *any* kind, or that there are people who actually do more than sweep floors there. | 20:18 |
| @khenn | rizen: can you take a look at something? | 20:19 |
| @khenn | you got a sec? | 20:19 |
| @rizen | sure | 20:20 |
| @rizen | what's up | 20:20 |
| @khenn | look at ProfileField.pm | 20:20 |
| @khenn | linke 184 | 20:20 |
| @khenn | $default = WebGUI::Operation::Shared::secureEval($self->session,$properties->{dataDefault}); | 20:20 |
| @khenn | $properties->{dataDefault} is unset | 20:20 |
| @khenn | so this never actually happens | 20:20 |
| @khenn | I can fix it | 20:20 |
| @khenn | but I'm not sure if it will change the way the profile field currently works | 20:21 |
| @khenn | it should be $self->get("dataDefault") | 20:21 |
| @khenn | I know what it will do | 20:21 |
| @khenn | it will start filling in anything that is blank with whatever the user specifies in the dataDefault box | 20:22 |
| @khenn | but, I recall you mentioning that what gets filled in is the default data from the visitor profile | 20:22 |
| @khenn | perhaps that won't change | 20:22 |
| @rizen | it's a bug | 20:22 |
| @rizen | fix it | 20:22 |
| PedersenMJ | http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Time_to_Deprecate.aspx | 20:26 |
| PedersenMJ | You guys have just *got* to see that snippet. | 20:26 |
| @rizen | perl sux | 20:34 |
| @rizen | let's just rebuild webgui in haskell | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 20:34 |
| diakopter | rotfl | 20:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Nonono. Haskell is still too popular. It has to be either Cobol, or Fortran. Maybe Algol. | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Ada | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | where is snapcount's mystical static web site slurper? | 20:37 |
| @rizen | on your wuc conference cd | 20:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Nah, I could actually see using Ada. | 20:37 |
| @rizen | i wish that apache weren't so good, or that i would have designed webgui differently | 20:38 |
| @rizen | it would be nice to run webgui inside of perlbal | 20:38 |
| PedersenMJ | As horrid as it can be, it actually *does* have some good features. Nope, Ada is not the right choice. Modula-2? | 20:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Wow, never heard of perlbal before. Pretty nice idea, though. | 20:40 |
| PedersenMJ | I wonder... There any docs for trying to set up a webgui cluster? | 20:48 |
| PedersenMJ | ie: set up multiple apache/mod_perl servers, setup a common mysql backend, and get all of that to work? | 20:49 |
| @rizen | there will be a chapter on it in the new admin guide | 20:49 |
| @rizen | i've never written one up before though cuz there are so many ways to do it | 20:49 |
| @rizen | i've done a couple of speeches on it at previous wucs | 20:49 |
| @rizen | and so has len kranendonk | 20:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool. Damn, I wish that where I work had waited one more year for their new website (external, we still don't have an intranet, and that's where I'm hoping to get webgui introduced here). | 20:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Pop quiz, JT: What's wrong with this url? http://172.16.1.50/shop/home.aspx | 20:50 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: that script has a pretty dumb ass bug in it | 20:51 |
| @snapcount | thanks to yours truly | 20:51 |
| @snapcount | I can tell you how to patch it so you don't wind up with 600 copies of every image and file you import | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | that would be nice :) | 20:52 |
| @rizen | the url or the page that follows? | 20:52 |
| PedersenMJ | The url. | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | 1 - Don't create the storage object in the main part of the script | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | right now it does it once and re-uses it | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | 2 - Build the file asset first | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | then call $file->getStorageLocation to get a storage object | 20:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, I suppose there's nothing, technically, wrong with the url. What would be wrong with giving it out to random people on the net would be the more accurate question. | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | and upload the file that way | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | then you'll have to do $file->update{filename=>$whatever}); | 20:54 |
| @snapcount | it will be obvious when you look at the code | 20:54 |
| @snapcount | finding that bug however was not so obvious | 20:54 |
| @snapcount | =) | 20:54 |
| +perlDreamer | re-release at the next WUC? | 20:54 |
| @snapcount | actually, you can upload the fixed version to contribs if you want | 20:55 |
| @snapcount | I don't care | 20:55 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: what did you think of my WUC session? | 20:55 |
| @snapcount | I loved it | 20:56 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we could rename it so something less anti-rizen? | 20:56 |
| @snapcount | it would save me from running after scolded newcomers who get their feelings hurt | 20:56 |
| @snapcount | don't leave! no! come back! | 20:56 |
| @snapcount | r u kidding? | 20:57 |
| @snapcount | that's the best part =D | 20:57 |
| +perlDreamer | we could record it and podcast it from PB.com | 20:58 |
| diakopter | you own pb.com? | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm too lazy to type plainblack | 20:58 |
| @snapcount | I want to buy pbandj.com | 20:58 |
| @snapcount | then put that peanut butter jelly animation on it | 20:58 |
| @snapcount | with nothing else | 20:58 |
| @snapcount | peanut butterrr jelllA | 20:59 |
| ckotil | hehe | 20:59 |
| @snapcount | repeat | 20:59 |
| @snapcount | http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/06/peanutbutter.html | 20:59 |
| @snapcount | Go Bannana GO!! GO! | 20:59 |
| * snapcount bobs his head | 21:00 | |
| @snapcount | you know the really sad part is that without the proper medication I could watch this for hours | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | focus, dude | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | steady on | 21:01 |
| @snapcount | hehe | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | well, we now have another happy wG user | 21:01 |
| @snapcount | excellent smithers | 21:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, snapcount, question for you: On importing a theme. Is there any actual requirement that the theme go under the import node? Or could someone set up a folder under root called Themes, and import stuff there, for instance? | 21:02 |
| diakopter | that makes 3 :-P | 21:02 |
| @snapcount | you can put it where ever you want | 21:02 |
| PedersenMJ | diakopter: You counting me in that elite group? | 21:02 |
| @snapcount | it matters not | 21:02 |
| diakopter | no, but some people count multiple negatives. | 21:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool. I think I might make it into my own personal standard to do a themes folder. | 21:02 |
| @snapcount | diakopter: who are the other 2? | 21:02 |
| @preaction | snapcount: you can't watch it forever, it ends after like 3 minutes | 21:02 |
| @snapcount | you can click refresh tyvm | 21:02 |
| @preaction | perlbot tyvm? | 21:03 |
| @preaction | wtf? omg? bbq? | 21:03 |
| @snapcount | thank you very much | 21:03 |
| @snapcount | just made it up | 21:03 |
| @snapcount | FTW! | 21:03 |
| @preaction | X gets the block? | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot tell snapcount about pDC | 21:04 |
| @snapcount | nice | 21:04 |
| diakopter | perlbot tell diakopter about pDC | 21:04 |
| @snapcount | pomade is still the best calc ever of all time for ever and always | 21:04 |
| -!- snapcount is now known as snap_away | 21:05 | |
| @preaction | you know what? you can just stop harping on perlbot, she did nothing to you | 21:05 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: we're just waiting for you to build a spectre interface into her | 21:06 |
| +perlDreamer | so we can do commits | 21:06 |
| PedersenMJ | I can just imagine the code that could be sent from an irc channel straight into webgui. | 21:08 |
| +MrCookingGrease | PedersenMJ: http://172.16.1.50/shop/home.aspx is in a local ip range | 21:11 |
| +MrCookingGrease | so you cannot get to from the internet | 21:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah. I had o tell that to the people who are making our new website. | 21:11 |
| -!- MrCookingGrease is now known as MrHairgrease | 21:11 | |
| +MrHairgrease | heh | 21:11 |
| PedersenMJ | What's worse, though, is that they were complaining that they couldn't access our test servers using that url. | 21:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | just tell them that the should not complain that the internet i still working correctlt =) | 21:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Gods, I wish that were the only problem I'd had with them. I'd kill to be using webgui instead of what we're getting. | 21:22 |
| @rizen | what are you using? | 21:23 |
| PedersenMJ | Ever hear of a company named Devix? | 21:23 |
| @rizen | nope | 21:23 |
| PedersenMJ | It's something they built. And, to some degree, are still building. Even though they promised us everything would be ready by Sept 30. | 21:24 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, wait, in case it wasn't obvious, sep 30, 2006./ | 21:25 |
| @snap_away | oh that reminds me | 21:26 |
| PedersenMJ | We've got a cluster, but one machine is critical, since they have a program which can only run on one machine, and it has to run on one of the web servers. | 21:26 |
| @snap_away | which one of you guys broke the smoketests after I left for class? | 21:27 |
| @snap_away | come on fess up | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | after? try before | 21:27 |
| @snap_away | before? | 21:27 |
| @snap_away | they all passed at least an hour before I left for class | 21:27 |
| @snap_away | I ran them before trying to do the release | 21:27 |
| @preaction | which one of you guys didn't run the smoke tests before they released webgui? | 21:27 |
| @preaction | :p | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | after you left for class, before you released | 21:27 |
| @snap_away | I did run | 21:28 |
| @snap_away | it | 21:28 |
| +perlDreamer | then we made a bunch of commits | 21:28 |
| @snap_away | I decided to release anyway b/c it's not stable | 21:28 |
| +perlDreamer | it was me | 21:28 |
| * perlDreamer is shamed | 21:28 | |
| * perlDreamer had to iron his hands | 21:28 | |
| @snap_away | and I couldn't figure it out in two seconds | 21:28 |
| @snap_away | of all the people perlDreamer | 21:28 |
| @snap_away | you are the rock | 21:28 |
| @snap_away | our anchor | 21:28 |
| * snap_away cues dramatic music | 21:28 | |
| * perlDreamer has rocks, in head | 21:28 | |
| @snap_away | and this is what we have for thanks!!!!!!! | 21:29 |
| @snap_away | dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNNN | 21:29 |
| @snap_away | ok | 21:29 |
| * perlDreamer wails, sackcloth and ashes | 21:29 | |
| @snap_away | anyways, please fix it before next Wed | 21:29 |
| @snap_away | carry on | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | it's fixed already | 21:29 |
| @snap_away | rock on | 21:29 |
| -!- snap_away is now known as snapcount | 21:30 | |
| @snapcount | gotta love being asked to fix something when you're given only enough access to view the problem | 21:31 |
| @snapcount | sigh* | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | the joys of support | 21:31 |
| @snapcount | and my "handler" is away | 21:31 |
| @snapcount | my goto man, the cleaner | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | who's what? | 21:31 |
| @snapcount | Vrby is the new "handler" | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 21:32 |
| @snapcount | he sends us on missions | 21:32 |
| @preaction | call his cell, or ask JT for his house phone | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | that explains the email I got this morning | 21:32 |
| @snapcount | kind of like geek squad, but not lame | 21:32 |
| @snapcount | I'm going to give him 5 mins or so | 21:32 |
| @preaction | since he has this job now, he gets to be the bothered-at-all-hours-guy | 21:32 |
| @snapcount | he probably just stepped away | 21:32 |
| @snapcount | heh | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | so you and JT and Frank are off the hook? | 21:33 |
| @snapcount | hah! | 21:55 |
| @snapcount | we're never off the hook | 21:55 |
| @snapcount | you know how it goes | 21:56 |
| @snapcount | Vrby is protected | 21:56 |
| @snapcount | he's a don | 21:56 |
| @snapcount | as are JT and Frank | 21:56 |
| @snapcount | so I'm not off the hook nor is Doug | 21:56 |
| @snapcount | we just kind of roll with the punches =) | 21:56 |
| @snapcount | but it keeps us nimble | 21:56 |
| @snapcount | btw Doug, I just got your PBWG picture from Steve | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount is a rocker _and_ a roller | 21:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 21:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | elvis is | 21:57 |
| @snapcount | you look like a professional killer | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | elvis is dead, son | 21:57 |
| @snapcount | which is very cool | 21:57 |
| @snapcount | Elvis is right here | 21:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | what | 21:57 |
| @snapcount | next to me | 21:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | are you on mars? | 21:57 |
| @snapcount | close, Florida | 21:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | everybody knows martians took elvis | 21:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's on the internet | 21:58 |
| @snapcount | I named one of my Gooey dolls Elvis | 21:58 |
| @preaction | and then created florida | 21:58 |
| @snapcount | and he's on my desk next to me | 21:58 |
| @snapcount | the inter-webs | 21:58 |
| @snapcount | ok, have to get back on this sql report | 21:59 |
| diakopter | my dog uses our gooey as a humping platform. he's not a large dog. | 21:59 |
| -!- snapcount is now known as snap_away | 21:59 | |
| pjesi | PedersenMJ: do you develop your theme on the filesystem or using webgui? | 21:59 |
| @snap_away | diakopter: that's funny and disturbing | 21:59 |
| @snap_away | very nice | 21:59 |
| @snap_away | that conversation could get interesting quickly especially when one considers the name of the WebGUI mascot | 22:00 |
| * perlDreamer makes sure the kids can't read the screen | 22:00 | |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as lunchDreamer | 22:01 | |
| @snap_away | heh | 22:01 |
| @snap_away | we keep it pg-13 | 22:01 |
| @snap_away | I think we do anyway | 22:01 |
| @preaction | here? pg-13? rofles | 22:01 |
| ckotil | yeah i was gonna say.. its hardly pg13 | 22:01 |
| * preaction refrains from JT's catchphrase | 22:01 | |
| @snap_away | never seen someone use a text emote as a verb before | 22:01 |
| @snap_away | that was cool | 22:01 |
| ckotil | i see the f bomb every now and then | 22:01 |
| @snap_away | every kid knows that by 13 | 22:02 |
| @preaction | oh, then fuck the fucking fuckers | 22:02 |
| @snap_away | they teach it in the schools | 22:02 |
| @snap_away | =) | 22:02 |
| @snap_away | ok I'm really away now... back to the boring work | 22:02 |
| PedersenMJ | pjesi: I start on the filesystem, figuring out what I'm going to do with the files I've got, then quickly move into using webgui. | 22:05 |
| -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui | 22:12 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ | 22:12 | |
| pjesi | ok | 22:24 |
| pjesi | the problem I have is that I usually end up changing several Asset templates to produced desired look | 22:24 |
| PedersenMJ | I haven't changed a single asset template yet. Though, very likely, one will come up soon enough. | 22:26 |
| @snap_away | I need some SQL help | 22:34 |
| -!- snap_away is now known as snapcount | 22:34 | |
| @snapcount | can someone give me a good link or quickly explain what happens when you have more than one left join in a statement | 22:34 |
| PedersenMJ | The results of the first join are treated as a table, and then left joined on the second ON clause. | 22:35 |
| @rizen | when you have more than one left join | 22:35 |
| @rizen | the second join is added to the first | 22:35 |
| @rizen | and so on | 22:35 |
| @rizen | so you end up with one giant virtual table | 22:35 |
| @snapcount | to the result of the first? | 22:35 |
| @rizen | yes | 22:35 |
| @snapcount | ok | 22:35 |
| @snapcount | wow... kind of hard to visualize | 22:35 |
| @snapcount | I need to digest | 22:35 |
| * snapcount pauses and reflects | 22:36 | |
| @snapcount | thanks | 22:36 |
| PedersenMJ | Think of it like this: | 22:36 |
| @rizen | no think of it like this | 22:36 |
| @rizen | you have a bird | 22:36 |
| @rizen | and a worm | 22:36 |
| @snapcount | haha | 22:36 |
| @rizen | the bird is the sql | 22:36 |
| @rizen | the worm is you | 22:36 |
| PedersenMJ | select a,b from table 1 == Get a,b from table 1, all rows | 22:36 |
| @rizen | how do you win? | 22:37 |
| @snapcount | run | 22:37 |
| @rizen | you can't run | 22:37 |
| @snapcount | into the dirt | 22:37 |
| @rizen | ok | 22:37 |
| @rizen | that's right | 22:37 |
| @rizen | you hide | 22:37 |
| @rizen | that's the only way to beat sql | 22:37 |
| @snapcount | lmao | 22:37 |
| @snapcount | nice | 22:37 |
| @rizen | or anything that's hard to wrap your brain around | 22:37 |
| @rizen | i say just give up now | 22:37 |
| @snapcount | I need to pull a Ricky Bobby and face the Cougar | 22:37 |
| @snapcount | you don't allow us to quit | 22:38 |
| @snapcount | I learned that the first couple days on the job | 22:38 |
| @snapcount | "Don't worry about quitting, I'll just fire you when you suck too bad, otherwise just keep working until you die" | 22:39 |
| @rizen | you can't quit plain black | 22:39 |
| @rizen | or anything i tell you to do | 22:39 |
| @snapcount | you didn't say that | 22:39 |
| @snapcount | but it sounds like something you would say | 22:39 |
| @rizen | but you can quit something that you're trying to do | 22:39 |
| @rizen | actually, what i think i said was "you're it until you die or i find someone better" | 22:39 |
| @snapcount | left joins never really clicked with me | 22:39 |
| @snapcount | time to make some small tables and conquer this | 22:40 |
| @snapcount | I need to understand this anyways | 22:40 |
| @snapcount | rizen: there you go | 22:40 |
| @preaction | starship troopers? | 22:41 |
| @rizen | yup | 22:41 |
| @rizen | i don't know why, but i love that movie | 22:41 |
| @preaction | it's the awesomeness of Paul Verhoven and Robert Heinlein rolled into one | 22:42 |
| ckotil | if you like that movie you should play the new xbox 360 game Lost Planet: Extreme Conditions | 22:44 |
| ckotil | its amazing | 22:44 |
| @rizen | i don't buy microsoft products | 22:44 |
| ckotil | you're missing out. | 22:44 |
| @rizen | nope | 22:44 |
| @preaction | i almost hate to admit i'm considering a 360, since the PS3 will never be purchased by me (sony being worse than ms these days) | 22:44 |
| @preaction | i played Gears of War, it rocks all high | 22:45 |
| @rizen | yeah i wouldn't buy that either | 22:45 |
| ckotil | since you've held out htis long, i'd just wait for a price break | 22:45 |
| ckotil | GoW is amazing | 22:45 |
| ckotil | its going to be a trilogy | 22:45 |
| @rizen | snapcount....you forgot to create tonersandcartridges.com in dns | 22:45 |
| @rizen | is it ok if i call you a tard on the support boards? | 22:45 |
| @preaction | it's pretty cool that tiffany did some self-checking first, good to see initiative | 22:46 |
| @rizen | yup | 22:48 |
| ckotil | anyone know if ^LastModifiedPage(<tmpl_var page.url>,,%y-%m-%dT%h:%n:%s+00:00); that macro comes with 7.2.3 ? | 22:48 |
| @rizen | but that doesn't change the fact that i want to call roy a tard on the support boards | 22:48 |
| @snapcount | I did? | 22:48 |
| @snapcount | oh crap | 22:49 |
| @snapcount | yeah I did... | 22:49 |
| @snapcount | call me an idiot | 22:49 |
| @snapcount | i deserve it | 22:49 |
| @rizen | listen...idiot isn't good enough | 22:49 |
| @snapcount | who'd a thunk her client wouldn't want to just use the alias forever | 22:49 |
| @rizen | well, basically anyone but you apparently | 22:49 |
| @rizen | =) | 22:50 |
| @snapcount | I'm having a bad week | 22:50 |
| @snapcount | everything seems hard and it's not | 22:50 |
| * snapcount kicks snapcount in the arse | 22:50 | |
| @snapcount | "Get with it Sally!" | 22:50 |
| @snapcount | ok I understand the point of a left join now | 22:51 |
| @snapcount | didn't see a practical use for one | 22:51 |
| @snapcount | until now | 22:51 |
| @snapcount | now to throw table 3 in the mix | 22:51 |
| @rizen | are you kidding | 22:51 |
| @rizen | there's dozens and dozens of them in webgui all over the place? | 22:51 |
| @rizen | have you seen them? | 22:51 |
| @snapcount | yeah I know... I have to look up what a left join does each time I have to work with one | 22:54 |
| @snapcount | and then I forget it | 22:54 |
| @snapcount | so I'm facing it | 22:54 |
| @snapcount | committing to memory | 22:54 |
| @snapcount | inner join makes sense now as well | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | I see a pattern developing | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | right join seems redundant | 22:55 |
| @preaction | it is, last i knew | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | ok good | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | maybe I'm seeing the light after all | 22:55 |
| @preaction | no, that's the drugs | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | funny you mention that | 22:57 |
| @snapcount | my "concentrate dumb ass" afternoon dose is starting to work | 22:57 |
| @snapcount | really freaky b/c it's almost night and day difference, very noticable | 22:57 |
| @preaction | weird | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | almost like a slap in the face | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | almost instant too | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | scared the crap out of me the first time | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | did I just spell the result of a wound | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | or convey I experienced fear? | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | I hate spelling | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | or are they spelled the same | 22:59 |
| @preaction | scarred | 22:59 |
| @snapcount | Being scared scared me because I wanted to be a model" | 22:59 |
| @snapcount | The thought of being scarred scared me because I want to model | 23:00 |
| @snapcount | is that right? | 23:00 |
| @snapcount | looks right | 23:00 |
| @snapcount | so the left most table in a query with multiple left joins will return the most rows (least restrictive) | 23:01 |
| @preaction | i don't know, i've only ever used them in 1 to 1 relationships | 23:03 |
| @preaction | i use them, i know what they do, but i don't really understand them | 23:03 |
| @snapcount | for me it was pretty much " I can look up what they do, but I don't really understand them" | 23:05 |
| @preaction | oh.. i think i get it now | 23:06 |
| @preaction | lets say you have a b and c, b is joined to a, and c is joined to b,a (so select from a join b join c) | 23:06 |
| @preaction | for each matching row in C, it will fill in the results in b and a | 23:06 |
| @preaction | nevermind, i don't get it | 23:07 |
| @preaction | basically it starts by looking at the C's on clause, then back to the B's on clause | 23:07 |
| @preaction | i think | 23:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Other way around, preaction. It starts in table a, then takes rows in table b that match table a, then takes rows in table c that match what it found in table (ab) | 23:27 |
| @preaction | oh, left most | 23:27 |
| @preaction | not right most :p | 23:27 |
| @snapcount | yeah | 23:27 |
| @snapcount | I get it now too | 23:27 |
| @snapcount | I was thinking of it the way you just described which was throwing me | 23:28 |
| @snapcount | it's kind of cool actually | 23:28 |
| @rizen | so i have a crazy new idea for assets | 23:28 |
| @rizen | to make them much faster | 23:28 |
| @snapcount | call them quick read assets | 23:29 |
| @snapcount | hehe | 23:29 |
| @rizen | let me run it by you guys | 23:29 |
| @rizen | and please poke holes in it | 23:29 |
| @snapcount | shoot | 23:29 |
| @rizen | there will be only 2 tables for assets | 23:29 |
| @rizen | asset and assetData | 23:29 |
| @rizen | as there are now | 23:29 |
| @rizen | but all the class tables will not exist | 23:29 |
| @rizen | instead, a new field will be added to the assetData table | 23:30 |
| @rizen | called extraProperties or something like that | 23:30 |
| @rizen | and all the extra stuff will be stored in it | 23:30 |
| @rizen | serialzied with freeze/thaw | 23:30 |
| @rizen | or maybe a high performance json parser | 23:30 |
| @rizen | that part is irrelevant | 23:30 |
| @rizen | cuz to the developer it's all transparent | 23:31 |
| @rizen | then as a dev if you need to get a list of all the assets that have x=y in those extra properties | 23:31 |
| @rizen | you don't use the database or database queries any longer | 23:31 |
| @rizen | instead, you use the search system | 23:31 |
| @rizen | as part of this, the search system will be updated to be able to index arbitrary fields | 23:32 |
| @rizen | so that you can do complex searching | 23:32 |
| @rizen | even more so than you can now | 23:32 |
| @rizen | here are the advantages | 23:32 |
| @rizen | a) we eliminate about 40 tables from our schema | 23:32 |
| @rizen | b) asset instanciation will be much faster because the join will be much simpler (only 2 tables instead of 3,4,5 etc) | 23:33 |
| @rizen | c) looking for a list of assets will be easier and faster because of the high performance search index | 23:33 |
| @rizen | rather than searching against big joins as we do now | 23:33 |
| @snapcount | so each record will duplicate the extended properties definition for an asset, i.e., serialized (myproperty=foo,myOtherProperty=foo2) | 23:33 |
| @rizen | d) asset development will be easier cuz you won't need to develop a database table | 23:33 |
| @rizen | unless you have collateral data | 23:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | question | 23:34 |
| @rizen | e) if you only have a small amount of collateral data, you can serialize it into a field | 23:34 |
| @rizen | rather than creating extra tables | 23:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | how can mysql cope with the diffrent schemas in the extraProperties column | 23:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | for searchin that is | 23:34 |
| @rizen | snapcount: yes | 23:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | or is that still handled the way it is now? | 23:34 |
| @snapcount | well one thing that could be very tricky | 23:35 |
| @snapcount | is if you need to change the schema for an upgrade | 23:35 |
| @rizen | mrhairgrease: as i was saying, we'll have to alter how we do indexing a little bitt | 23:35 |
| @rizen | snapcount: no, cuz now the schema is dynamic | 23:36 |
| @rizen | need to delete a field? | 23:36 |
| @snapcount | you would just unserialize it , manipulate it, whatever, reserialize, insert | 23:36 |
| @rizen | it will automatically be deleted the next time the data is set | 23:36 |
| @snapcount | or update rather | 23:36 |
| @rizen | cuz it isn't part of the schema anymore | 23:36 |
| @rizen | no...as a developer, it would just happen automatically | 23:37 |
| @rizen | meaning your schema is only defined in the asset | 23:37 |
| @rizen | definition method | 23:37 |
| @rizen | not in the database | 23:37 |
| @rizen | so you don't even have to worry about it | 23:37 |
| @rizen | webgui's api would do all the work for you | 23:37 |
| @snapcount | and then update would deal with changing data | 23:37 |
| @rizen | yup | 23:37 |
| @snapcount | well, the size of that field could be pretty big in some circumstances | 23:38 |
| @snapcount | but I don't think that matters | 23:38 |
| @rizen | any other reasons why this is dumb? | 23:39 |
| @rizen | incidentally, this can be added to the current api without breaking anything | 23:39 |
| @preaction | what about custom SQL reports that rely on the Asset tables? | 23:40 |
| @snapcount | those would break | 23:40 |
| @snapcount | unless the sql report could do the translation | 23:40 |
| @rizen | no longer possible at least not with the data thats in the extras field | 23:40 |
| @rizen | if we serialize to json | 23:41 |
| @rizen | then the data could still be used client side | 23:41 |
| @rizen | and on top of that | 23:41 |
| @rizen | we don't really recommend querying the webgui data that much anyway | 23:41 |
| @rizen | because the schema changes so much | 23:41 |
| @rizen | and because the queries are rediculously complex now that we have versioning | 23:41 |
| @rizen | no non-webgui developer could likely figure it out very easily | 23:42 |
| @rizen | and as roy has just proven, even webgui developers are confused by it | 23:42 |
| * snapcount bows | 23:42 | |
| @snapcount | thank you, thank you | 23:42 |
| @rizen | i see only one down side | 23:42 |
| @rizen | and that's the one that preaction just pointed out | 23:43 |
| @rizen | custom sql queries | 23:43 |
| @rizen | whether in an sql report or not | 23:43 |
| @rizen | will not be possible | 23:43 |
| @rizen | you need to use the api | 23:43 |
| @preaction | i personally feel that storing a data structure as text is horrible, normalization can go overboard, but this is necessary | 23:43 |
| @rizen | normally i would agree with you preaction | 23:43 |
| @preaction | of course, if the API is designed appropriately, perhaps some Assets that use the search API to return arbitrary results of queries (to replace SQLReport doing that) that would work better (from a user standpoint) | 23:44 |
| @rizen | but i'm more concerned with performance these days | 23:44 |
| @rizen | agreed | 23:44 |
| @snapcount | we could have a lot of code to update | 23:44 |
| @preaction | we can provide a replacement, but we still break API | 23:44 |
| @snapcount | b/c of the queries the assets themselves you | 23:44 |
| @snapcount | use | 23:44 |
| -!- lunchDreamer is now known as perlDreamer | 23:44 | |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: do you mean core code or custom code? | 23:44 |
| @snapcount | both | 23:44 |
| @rizen | NOPE | 23:44 |
| @preaction | we should have someplace where we keep track of future api changes (in 2010, when we can do things again) | 23:45 |
| @rizen | this can be built as an add on that doesn't have to affect the other assets | 23:45 |
| @rizen | some assets can work the old way | 23:45 |
| @rizen | and some the new way | 23:45 |
| @snapcount | ahh | 23:45 |
| @rizen | i've already designed it in my head | 23:45 |
| @snapcount | well in that case | 23:45 |
| @rizen | preaction...we can do this in 7.4 if we wanted to | 23:45 |
| @snapcount | sql report would continue to work for peoples custom stuff too | 23:45 |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAfkGrease | 23:46 | |
| @rizen | for their own custom assets | 23:46 |
| @rizen | but not for core assets | 23:46 |
| @snapcount | yeah | 23:46 |
| @rizen | cuz we'd convert core assets | 23:46 |
| @snapcount | I'm with ya | 23:46 |
| @preaction | we could potentially break custom code | 23:46 |
| @rizen | no we can't | 23:46 |
| @rizen | at least not custom plugin code | 23:46 |
| @snapcount | he just explained why =) | 23:46 |
| @rizen | like assets | 23:46 |
| @rizen | maybe a utility script that relies on articles to have an Article table | 23:47 |
| @rizen | we could break | 23:47 |
| +perlDreamer | It would break the ^Page macro | 23:47 |
| @preaction | unless temporarily the core assets use both methods to store data, and we just use the faster way in core to retrieve things | 23:47 |
| +perlDreamer | not all fields would be available through it anymore | 23:47 |
| @rizen | all fields would be available perl dreamer | 23:47 |
| @rizen | $asset->get($field); | 23:47 |
| @rizen | still works the same way | 23:47 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, cool | 23:47 |
| @rizen | the entire API continues to work as it does | 23:48 |
| @rizen | the only thing that changes is the database schema | 23:48 |
| @rizen | so therefore | 23:48 |
| @rizen | the only things that break | 23:48 |
| @preaction | was the db schema part of your promise? | 23:48 |
| @rizen | are things that use their own custom queries | 23:48 |
| @rizen | hell no | 23:48 |
| @rizen | if it were | 23:48 |
| @rizen | we couldn't do anything | 23:48 |
| @rizen | i said that the API would not break | 23:49 |
| @rizen | and more importantly | 23:49 |
| @rizen | i said plugins wouldn't break | 23:49 |
| @preaction | then i'd wait till 7.5, and let everyone know now exactly what's going to happen so they can prepare (by stopping using custom sql queries like they shouldn't, and using the api like they should) | 23:49 |
| @rizen | so if you write an asset today, it will still work | 23:49 |
| @rizen | i'm not saying we're even going to do this | 23:49 |
| @rizen | i'm just saying we could do it in 7.4 and everything would be honky dory | 23:49 |
| @rizen | if we do it | 23:50 |
| @snapcount | I think we could even write a compatibility mode that would allow things to work both ways at the same time | 23:50 |
| @rizen | it won't be until after this summer | 23:50 |
| @snapcount | but it would be slow | 23:50 |
| @preaction | i'm actually for it, after those things are addressed | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we could look at using views and get rid of all the JOIN's in the SQL code | 23:50 |
| @rizen | we can also do that pd | 23:50 |
| @preaction | reduce the complexity of the db schema is good idea | 23:50 |
| @rizen | however views are only slightly better performing than joins | 23:50 |
| @rizen | getting rid of joins/views all together | 23:51 |
| @rizen | will make things much faster | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | you could still have a view for asset/assetData | 23:51 |
| @rizen | true | 23:51 |
| @preaction | anyone who's further in WBP, is there anything against using do FILENAME? | 23:51 |
| @snapcount | if there was a config file option "compatOn", webgui could extrapoloate table definitions for each asset when modperl starts and create temporary tables. The code would also have to update the new way and old way if the mode was on. | 23:52 |
| @snapcount | maybe that's too far out ther | 23:52 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: aside from having potential dangerous code? | 23:52 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 23:52 | |
| @rizen | preaction do you mean a plain text variable? | 23:52 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: if people have commit access to SVN, we have to trust them | 23:52 |
| @rizen | FILENAME | 23:52 |
| @snapcount | but that could cause integrety problems if something errored | 23:52 |
| @rizen | cuz they say no | 23:52 |
| @preaction | no, do script.pl | 23:52 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 23:52 | |
| @rizen | where do is a vrb? | 23:53 |
| @rizen | verb | 23:53 |
| @preaction | rather: eval { do script.pl }; die $@ if $@; | 23:53 |
| @preaction | yes | 23:53 |
| @rizen | i didn't even know you could do that | 23:53 |
| @rizen | but there is a section about do | 23:53 |
| @preaction | perldoc -f do | 23:53 |
| @rizen | and they say don't | 23:53 |
| @rizen | it says forget do exists | 23:54 |
| @preaction | crap, i was hoping this upgrade system could be made more modular without having to actually make modules, maybe Module::Pluggable instead | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: Did you see my note about the OSCON call for papers being open? | 23:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, JT, quick question for my current theme? Since I'm inserting webgui links and info all over this theme, I'm wondering if I can add the quotes in that I can find at: http://www.plainblack.com/success_stories | 23:55 |
| @rizen | pd: yes i saw it | 23:56 |
| @rizen | haven't decided whether i'm interested or not | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | are you bug fixing? | 23:56 |
| @rizen | sort of | 23:56 |
| @rizen | intel mac wre | 23:56 |
| @rizen | all my devs have intel macs | 23:56 |
| @rizen | and can't dev on them | 23:56 |
| @rizen | they have to use parallels | 23:57 |
| @rizen | with linux | 23:57 |
| @rizen | pdersen: yes | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, I'm going to see if preaction will help me with the time bug in the Calendar, then | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | preactoin, whaddya say? | 23:57 |
| @preaction | what's the bug? | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | UTC vs local time zone in editing existing calendar times | 23:58 |
| PedersenMJ | JT: Thanks. Hopefully will finish this one tonight, and you can see my fuss about it and be happy :) | 23:58 |
| @preaction | they're stored as UTC in the database and converted to/from the user's local time when displaying/editing | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think so | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | Would it help if I made a test case on demo? | 23:59 |
| @preaction | sure, or is there a bug report somewhere? | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Fri Jan 19 2007 | ||
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/calendar-start/end-date-time-off-in-edit-interface#Rl0Jb4Gmt-pihddkbZ2pc | 00:00 |
| @preaction | but it shows the correct time in all other pages? | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I didn't notice | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I think the problem is in toMysql | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | it sets the TZ to be UTC | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | and then the time form doesn't touch it if it is in mysql format | 00:01 |
| @preaction | i continually attempt to tell frank that timezone needs to be completely in the hands of the developer, but he tells me to do it automatically | 00:01 |
| @preaction | so i add that code | 00:01 |
| @preaction | and break things | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | well, toMysql should put it in UTC, because that's what Mysql uses | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | but none of the other things do | 00:02 |
| @preaction | the other toMysql* can't | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | so if I replace this: split / /, $self->getDateTimeStart->toMysql | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | with toMysqlDate and toMySqlTime it will be fine? | 00:03 |
| @preaction | for now, it's hiding a deeper issue with how i'm handling time zones | 00:03 |
| @preaction | in that it should never be handled automatically | 00:03 |
| +perlDreamer | well, we have the majority of the devs here online | 00:03 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we should set it in stone? | 00:03 |
| @preaction | or.. maybe it should be handled automatically in the toMysql* methods | 00:03 |
| @snapcount | I vote for Death, "off with the head!" | 00:04 |
| @preaction | i mean, for consistency at least | 00:04 |
| @preaction | if they want the mysql format without UTC, they can use strtftime | 00:04 |
| PedersenMJ | snapcount: No, I think I'll choose cake please. | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | you know, it _could_ be very WBP to export formats instead of methods | 00:05 |
| @preaction | i'm beginning to suspect they gave me the calendar because of all the headaches it causes :p | 00:05 |
| +perlDreamer | you would be correct :) | 00:05 |
| +perlDreamer | no one else wanted to work on it | 00:05 |
| @snapcount | hey at least you don't have to be the one to rewrite the EMS | 00:05 |
| +perlDreamer | but you've made a great start on revamping it | 00:05 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 00:05 | |
| +perlDreamer | no, that is true | 00:05 |
| @snapcount | that will be an adventure for sure | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | EMS? | 00:06 |
| @snapcount | Event Management System | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, I meant vs the calendar | 00:06 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 00:06 | |
| @snapcount | what about it vs the calendar | 00:06 |
| @snapcount | as far as revamping | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | having to rewrite the calendar vs the EMS | 00:07 |
| PedersenMJ | So, now I know: rsync to OSX of 40G of data is very unkind to the machine. | 00:07 |
| @snapcount | I'd say the calendar is cake | 00:07 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: how about instead you just change toMysqlDate and toMysqlTime to convert automatically, document it, and see what breaks | 00:07 |
| @preaction | or i can, but not today | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | to convert to UTC? | 00:07 |
| @preaction | yes | 00:08 |
| -!- snapcount is now known as snapLearns | 00:08 | |
| @preaction | we'll assume that any time they want the Mysql string, they're storing, and when they store it should be in UTC | 00:08 |
| @preaction | ... but immediately after getting a date in a timezone from a user they should be converting to UTC... | 00:08 |
| @rizen | i thought that the plan with the new date time system was that everything was in UTC | 00:09 |
| @rizen | all the time | 00:09 |
| @rizen | and then you had to convert it to the user's time | 00:09 |
| @rizen | for display | 00:09 |
| @preaction | yes | 00:09 |
| @preaction | in that case, toMysql* should always convert | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I'll give it a shot | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | we can always revert it if it causes too many problems | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, only the Event and Calendar use WG::DateTime | 00:10 |
| @rizen | there is no going back | 00:10 |
| @rizen | not ever | 00:10 |
| @preaction | the problem lies in when we're given a date/time, the author has to make sure to specify what timezone it's in. are we getting it from the db (UTC) or the user ($session->user->profileField('timezone')) | 00:10 |
| @preaction | frank's been making code that uses it now | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | If I make this change, it will break it | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | but if it's the right thing to do, maybe we should anyway | 00:11 |
| @preaction | i'm for changing it, when the constructor is given a mysql date/time, it assumes UTC | 00:11 |
| @preaction | so, to store it in one and assume it's UTC later, it bad | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | do all events that have been created in a calendar have the wrong times then? | 00:13 |
| @preaction | i thought i was converting right away, in the form elements | 00:14 |
| +perlDreamer | let me duplicate it on demo just to be sure | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | crap | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | I can't duplicate it on demo | 00:15 |
| @preaction | ahh, when i changed toMysql to be UTC, it broke things | 00:15 |
| @preaction | the form elements should be handling this timezone crap | 00:15 |
| @preaction | ... rather the DateTime.pm does, but Date.pm and Time.pm cannot (rather Date.pm cannot, and so Time.pm shouldn't for consistency) | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | why not? | 00:16 |
| @preaction | because how do we know when we go back a day in the date? | 00:17 |
| @preaction | it's based on time, we don't have one | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | time sucks | 00:17 |
| @preaction | so if Time.pm translates, and Date.pm doesn't, we don't know if Time.pm has gone past 0:00 and needs to alter the date | 00:18 |
| @preaction | which is why i just fell into only translating when i had a full date/time string to worry about | 00:18 |
| PedersenMJ | But, perlDreamer, the faster you are moving, the slower it sucks, and therefore the less it sucks. It just won't seem it to you. | 00:18 |
| @preaction | unfortunately, because of "All Day Events", I can't use Date/Time and must use separate date and time fields | 00:19 |
| +perlDreamer | then you have to resolve all the time zones in the Asset and feed info to the forms and have it just pass them, not adjust them | 00:20 |
| @preaction | and that's why toMysqlDate and toMysqlTime can't translate, because of those form elements | 00:20 |
| @preaction | yes | 00:20 |
| +perlDreamer | well, we're back at the begining then | 00:20 |
| @preaction | we can shortcut it in the full Date/Time strings, but not anywhere else | 00:20 |
| @preaction | i was... incredibly strung-out when i wrote some of this, and then i shut down for a while :p | 00:21 |
| @preaction | at any rate, WebGUI::DateTime cannot change, it is most likely a translation issue in Event.pm | 00:21 |
| @preaction | and a pox on Frank for putting a session object in WebGUI::DateTime's constructor, which is going to create all sorts of problems | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | why? | 00:23 |
| @preaction | because when it does these timezone things automatically, things get even more confuses | 00:23 |
| @preaction | i mean, what do we do with the current user's timezone? is that the timezone the date we're constructing with is using? is that the timezone that it gets converted to? wtf? | 00:23 |
| @preaction | oh, i think i convinced him of that and he's only using it to set Locale | 00:24 |
| @preaction | (which means automatically translated month and day names) | 00:24 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, totally off-topic question for everybody: Anybody here have one of these "sunrise simulating" alarm clocks that they use? If so, what do you think of it? Pondering ordering one right now, and want some other optinions. | 00:26 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: yes, i am going to say with all confidence that it is merely a problem of translation in the edit form. the recurrence start/end date is also not translated properly | 00:27 |
| @preaction | i say "merely" when this is something that will probably take you an hour to wrap your head around | 00:27 |
| @preaction | i'm getting sleepy just thinking about it | 00:28 |
| +perlDreamer | well, let me think out loud | 00:29 |
| +perlDreamer | the default start handles the user's time zone | 00:29 |
| +perlDreamer | my $default_start = WebGUI::DateTime->new($session->form->param("start") || time) | 00:29 |
| +perlDreamer | ->set_time_zone($tz); | 00:29 |
| +perlDreamer | 00:29 | |
| +perlDreamer | It's only the date and time that are returned from getDateTimeStart that are problematic | 00:30 |
| @preaction | should getDateTimeStart translate you think? | 00:30 |
| @preaction | no, nevermind | 00:30 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what I was thinking | 00:30 |
| @preaction | it should be $self->getDateTimeStart->set_time_zone | 00:30 |
| +perlDreamer | getDateTimeStart returns stuff in the user's time zone | 00:31 |
| +perlDreamer | toMysql resets it to UTC | 00:31 |
| @preaction | getDateTimeStart is just a quick way to get a WebGUI::DateTime made with the various ways that an event can start | 00:31 |
| @preaction | it does? it shouldn't imho | 00:31 |
| +perlDreamer | my ($startDate,$startTime) = split / /, $self->getDateTimeStart->toMysql | 00:31 |
| @rizen | what makes your opinion honest? | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | ihpho | 00:32 |
| @preaction | shit, wtf was i thinking when i did that? | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | you were strung out | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | intoxicated with your new job at PB | 00:33 |
| @preaction | instead of that split, it should be the two separate calls, but even then it's rather confusing | 00:33 |
| @preaction | it might be the most straightforward to format it using strftime | 00:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we should bonk all this methodization and just export constants for various formats | 00:34 |
| +perlDreamer | EMAIL_FORMAT | 00:34 |
| +perlDreamer | MYSQL_FORMAT | 00:34 |
| +perlDreamer | etc | 00:34 |
| @preaction | it doesn't mention anything about timezones at all, and thus nobody should expect it to auto-translate | 00:34 |
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| @preaction | getDateTimeStart says it auto-translates, and toMysql says so too | 00:34 |
| +perlDreamer | no, toMysql says it translates to UTC | 00:35 |
| @preaction | yes, automatically | 00:35 |
| @preaction | getDateTimeStart is magic about if it translates, and that's necessary for ease-of-use (getDateTimeStart should only be used immediately before displaying) | 00:35 |
| @preaction | ... god... damn... it... | 00:36 |
| @preaction | okay: No matter what, we want the date, time, or date/time stored in the database to be in UTC | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 00:37 |
| @preaction | so all those toMysql* should translate to UTC, meaning you must prepare for that | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | right | 00:37 |
| @preaction | so how much stuff is that going to break? | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | what was your earlier argument against doing that? | 00:38 |
| @preaction | because the Date.pm and Time.pm form elements can't do translation, as they only have part of the pichar | 00:38 |
| @preaction | to doing ->toMysqlDate for the value of a Date form element will not work right | 00:38 |
| @preaction | toDatabaseDate, toFormDate? | 00:39 |
| @preaction | database date translates to UTC, form date translates to the user's time zone? | 00:39 |
| @preaction | toUserDate | 00:39 |
| +perlDreamer | toUserTzDate | 00:39 |
| +perlDreamer | very clear method name | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | toUserTzTime | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | toUserTzDateTime | 00:40 |
| @preaction | toDateInUserTimezone | 00:40 |
| @preaction | abbreviations are bad according to WBP | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, plus with vim's completion it won't cost too much to type | 00:40 |
| @preaction | indeed | 00:40 |
| @preaction | that and i'm starting to like long, descriptive, memorable method names | 00:41 |
| @preaction | brevity is overrated sometimes | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | but what format will these new methods put out? | 00:42 |
| @preaction | the mysql format | 00:42 |
| @preaction | in either UTC or the user's timezone | 00:42 |
| @preaction | since the form elements use the mysql format now | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | this also let's us grandfather in old code by adding in new methods | 00:43 |
| @preaction | the only major caveat will be that Date and Time elements must be translated manually, but if there are plenty of warnings about it, they'll be fine | 00:43 |
| @preaction | (and it was that way before, too) | 00:43 |
| @preaction | i suppose now that we have a decent idea and consensus, i can't do anything because i've got other stuff i need to be working on (one of the main reasons why the calendar continues in the state it's in... the list of TODO at the bottom is long...) | 00:45 |
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| @rizen | wahooo!!! | 01:02 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer: i finally have test data for #1 from yesterday | 01:03 |
| @rizen | you keep working on what you're working on | 01:03 |
| @rizen | just wanted to let you know | 01:03 |
| @rizen | i'm working on this problem now | 01:03 |
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| +perlDreamer | thanks, man | 01:45 |
| +perlDreamer | gotta go | 01:45 |
| +perlDreamer | got $dayJobbed | 01:46 |
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| cap10morgan | I've inherited some SQL Reports that I need to port to v. 7. They use a ^SQL(); inside the query, but that seems to be failing in v. 7. | 02:00 |
| cap10morgan | Is there a better way to do that? | 02:00 |
| @rizen | subselects | 02:01 |
| @rizen | mysql has native subselects now | 02:01 |
| @rizen | use them | 02:01 |
| @rizen | safer | 02:01 |
| @rizen | faster | 02:01 |
| cap10morgan | do they work after a "like"? | 02:02 |
| cap10morgan | i've only used them for in (...) | 02:02 |
| @rizen | read the mysql docs | 02:02 |
| @rizen | i believe they work in any part of the query | 02:02 |
| cap10morgan | ok, thanks | 02:02 |
| @rizen | you just have to surround them in () | 02:02 |
| @rizen | select * from table where name like (select name from users where userId='xxx') | 02:03 |
| @rizen | should work just fine i think | 02:03 |
| @rizen | or rather | 02:03 |
| @rizen | select * from table where name like (select concat(name,'%') from users where userId='xxx') | 02:04 |
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| cap10morgan | rizen: cool, yeah, that works. | 02:10 |
| @rizen | glad to hear it | 02:11 |
| @rizen | much cleaner to read too than the sql macro | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I'll add the new methods to wG::DateTime, convert the Event over to using them and see if it fixes the bug | 02:11 |
| cap10morgan | in the search function in the assets manager, is there a way to search for every asset of a certain class? | 02:11 |
| cap10morgan | rizen: agreed :) | 02:11 |
| @rizen | yes | 02:11 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: ok, thanks | 02:11 |
| @rizen | oh wait | 02:12 |
| @rizen | actually yes | 02:12 |
| @rizen | just put a * in the search field | 02:12 |
| @rizen | i believe that will do it | 02:12 |
| cap10morgan | rizen: tried that | 02:12 |
| cap10morgan | no luck :( | 02:12 |
| @rizen | then i guess not | 02:12 |
| @rizen | i've never tried that before | 02:12 |
| cap10morgan | if i search for one i know is in there by name, it finds it. but * returns none | 02:13 |
| cap10morgan | ok | 02:13 |
| @rizen | and certainly didn't think of it when i built it | 02:13 |
| cap10morgan | maybe i'll see how is it is to add and post as a contribution if i figure it out | 02:13 |
| @rizen | what if you put double quotes in the field | 02:13 |
| @rizen | "" | 02:13 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer: i figured out what #1 was | 02:14 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: ? | 02:14 |
| @rizen | it's a weird case of a multipart message | 02:14 |
| @rizen | where the parts are nested inside another part that contains no content | 02:14 |
| +perlDreamer | so it's mailer specific? | 02:14 |
| @rizen | don't know | 02:14 |
| @rizen | multipart/alternative | 02:15 |
| @rizen | most mailers use multipart/mixed | 02:15 |
| @rizen | from what i've seen | 02:15 |
| cap10morgan | rizen: "" returns none also | 02:15 |
| @rizen | sorry cap | 02:15 |
| @rizen | guess you'll have to rfe it | 02:15 |
| @rizen | i know you can do it through the search api | 02:15 |
| @rizen | must be something in the UI that's stopping it form working | 02:15 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: just a little more data. The time on the event display is fine, it's just the edit screen that's off | 02:17 |
| @preaction | figures, you could either just fix the problem, or fix the problem for all future by making nicely named api methods ;) | 02:18 |
| +perlDreamer | the latter sounds fine | 02:18 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we should make a test for it as well? | 02:18 |
| @preaction | indeed, a suite of tests | 02:18 |
| @preaction | it was part of my original desires, but fell by the wayside quickly | 02:19 |
| +perlDreamer | time, time, time. see what has become of thee? | 02:20 |
| @preaction | might want to mark the toMysql* as deprecated | 02:20 |
| @preaction | (though they never really existed, i'll have to warn frank about this) | 02:20 |
| @rizen | nice, i just closed a bug from july | 02:20 |
| @rizen | that's good | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | 1 down | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | 70 more to go :} | 02:20 |
| @rizen | don't rain on my parade | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | I live in Oregon. Rainy parades are the norm | 02:21 |
| @khenn | colin | 02:22 |
| @khenn | let me send you my version of Date::Time | 02:22 |
| @khenn | that way we don't step on eachother's toes | 02:22 |
| @khenn | er | 02:22 |
| @khenn | WebGUI::DateTime | 02:22 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 02:22 |
| @khenn | I made it much easier to use | 02:23 |
| @khenn | you can pass in a session object | 02:23 |
| @preaction | colin will rely on that, the user timezone stuff needs a session object | 02:23 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, to get back to $session->user | 02:23 |
| @preaction | but you'll have to test, if there's no session object those methods can't work | 02:24 |
| @khenn | you can set it too | 02:24 |
| @khenn | the only place the session object won't be passed in will be the calendar | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | if we absolutely need it, then it should be in the constructor | 02:25 |
| @khenn | I have it there | 02:25 |
| @khenn | but because Doug uses it all over the place in the Calendar | 02:25 |
| @khenn | and I didn't have time to update the Calendar | 02:25 |
| @khenn | ... | 02:26 |
| @khenn | I guess the calendar really needs to be updated | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | Before checking anything in, I'll update both Event and Calendar with the new constructor semantics | 02:26 |
| @khenn | shouldn't take long | 02:26 |
| @khenn | k | 02:26 |
| @khenn | you can then fix my version so $session is required rather than optional | 02:26 |
| @preaction | perhaps use WBP to throw a die? | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds good | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | croak | 02:27 |
| @preaction | the only thing i worry about is if some idiot doesn't trap it and it propagates all the way up to mod_perl | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | khenn: I got it | 02:28 |
| cap10morgan | is there a better way to do sql reports when they're just pulling stuff from the webgui db? shouldn't those be macros? | 02:29 |
| cap10morgan | to be more robust (since they'd use the api instead of hitting the db directly)? | 02:29 |
| @preaction | or custom assets/wobjects | 02:30 |
| cap10morgan | preaction: but the basic api over db thing is correct? | 02:30 |
| @preaction | it is more correct, yes | 02:30 |
| +perlDreamer | khenn: do we need to keep the session set'er if it's going to be mandatory in the constructor? | 02:30 |
| cap10morgan | preaction: cool, thanks. that was my suspicion :) | 02:30 |
| @preaction | we were having a conversation today about abolishing the individual wobject tables, so anything goes in the db schema | 02:31 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: be careful and make sure to test WebGUI::DateTime->from_epoch(); before you label it done (that will ensure that your constructor works) | 02:32 |
| @preaction | or just disable that | 02:32 |
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| +perlDreamer | do you mean as a class method? | 02:33 |
| @rizen | cap, macros that use the api are definitely safer than anything that touches the db | 02:33 |
| @rizen | the db changes dramatically from version to version | 02:33 |
| @preaction | since new() accepts an integer and assumes it's an epoch time, ->from_epoch is unnecessary, but it still calls DateTime->from_epoch, which calls (Because of inheritence) WebGUI->DateTime->new | 02:33 |
| @preaction | er.. WebGUI::DateTime->new | 02:34 |
| @preaction | it still calls <- meaning WebGUI::DateTime->new(epoch time); calls DateTime->from_epoch | 02:35 |
| +perlDreamer | if I shift $session from the arg list, will it should work from there like it used to? | 02:38 |
| @preaction | it Should, except in the case of DateTime->from_epoch | 02:38 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI::DateTime->from_epoch | 02:38 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, we'll lose that | 02:39 |
| +perlDreamer | feature | 02:39 |
| @preaction | um. look at the constructor again, DateTime->from_epoch is necessary | 02:39 |
| @preaction | i don't know how to handle it, but it needs to be handled | 02:40 |
| +perlDreamer | you're talking about this line: | 02:41 |
| +perlDreamer | $self = DateTime->from_epoch(epoch=>$_[0], time_zone=>"UTC", locale=>$locale); | 02:41 |
| @preaction | yeah | 02:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll start on that test suite after I finish hacking :) | 02:41 |
| @preaction | i don't know what it'll do with session => $session, or something | 02:41 |
| +perlDreamer | hmmm. Can't require Readonly yet | 02:46 |
| cap10morgan | thanks guys, I'm gonna convert these sql reports to marcos. have a good one, all. | 02:47 |
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| +perlDreamer | marcos | 02:47 |
| +perlDreamer | why not imeldas? | 02:47 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a tough crowd tonight | 02:49 |
| +perlDreamer | but don't worry folks, I'll be here all night | 02:49 |
| @rizen | if i were in the room with you i'd be throwing tomatoes | 02:50 |
| +perlDreamer | if you were in the room with me I'd eat them | 02:50 |
| @rizen | i hate tomatos | 02:50 |
| +perlDreamer | that Churchill quote just doesn't work in that context | 02:50 |
| @rizen | that's why i'd throw them | 02:51 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, now how do I come up with test data to validate this thing? | 03:01 |
| @preaction | run some one-liners | 03:02 |
| +perlDreamer | against DateTime.pm, not WebGUI::DateTime.pm | 03:02 |
| @preaction | oh, right | 03:03 |
| @preaction | or make it up out of your head | 03:03 |
| +perlDreamer | lol | 03:03 |
| @preaction | 2006-11-12 08:00:00 Central should be XXXX 09:00:00 Eastern, etc... | 03:03 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: do you want to give this the once over before I get into testing a bad API? | 03:05 |
| @preaction | sure | 03:05 |
| +perlDreamer | doug@pb.com? | 03:05 |
| @preaction | yeah | 03:05 |
| +perlDreamer | it's on its way | 03:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll be back in a bit, have to cook dinner for the boys | 03:09 |
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| @khenn | I just wanted you all to know that I rule | 03:47 |
| @khenn | RULE! | 03:47 |
| @rizen | how's that? | 03:47 |
| @khenn | Cause I'm doing some really cool shit with WebGUI | 03:47 |
| @rizen | like? | 03:47 |
| @khenn | http://frank1.plainblack.net:8084/home/update-my-profile | 03:48 |
| @khenn | not all the tabs work | 03:48 |
| @khenn | er | 03:48 |
| @khenn | and you need to log in | 03:48 |
| @khenn | defaults | 03:48 |
| @khenn | and just if case you want to be a smartass, I couldn't use YUI for the tabs b/c of the 508 nonesense | 03:49 |
| @khenn | or I would have | 03:49 |
| @khenn | the actual thing isn't really that impressive anyway. It's the code behind it! | 03:49 |
| @rizen | how are you keeping track of the history | 03:50 |
| @rizen | are those just changes made through this interface? | 03:50 |
| @rizen | like if the admin makes a direct change to the profile | 03:50 |
| @rizen | does that update the history | 03:50 |
| @khenn | it updates the history | 03:51 |
| @rizen | how? | 03:51 |
| @khenn | the history table is being updated | 03:51 |
| @khenn | but that's the default display | 03:51 |
| Radix-wrk | I think the photo is wrong ;) | 03:51 |
| @khenn | like this: | 03:51 |
| @khenn | my $currentValue = $u->profileField($key); | 03:51 |
| @khenn | my $newValue = $form->process($key,$field->get("fieldType")); | 03:51 |
| @khenn | if ($newValue ne $currentValue) | 03:52 |
| @rizen | there is no history table for the profile | 03:52 |
| @khenn | $self->logAction($u->userId, sprintf($i18n->echo("%s updated to $newValue"),$label)); | 03:52 |
| @khenn | yeah, it's a custom table | 03:52 |
| @rizen | ok, so how is it that the user manager screen will make additions to the history | 03:52 |
| @khenn | changes through WebGUI's User Management thing won't catch | 03:52 |
| @rizen | that's what i asked before | 03:52 |
| @rizen | ok, that makes sense | 03:53 |
| @khenn | oh, it's a tool for admins to track what the users change | 03:53 |
| @khenn | the regular profile tool is disabled | 03:53 |
| @rizen | but the regular user manager isn't | 03:53 |
| @rizen | you can't | 03:53 |
| @khenn | no the tool that users use | 03:53 |
| @khenn | not managers | 03:53 |
| @rizen | yeah i get it | 03:53 |
| @preaction | holy crap, i just noticed | 03:54 |
| @preaction | that does look a lot like you, frank | 03:54 |
| @khenn | ha | 03:54 |
| @khenn | yeah right | 03:54 |
| @preaction | a lot moreso than the Rockstar Elvis we had on pb.com awhile back | 03:54 |
| @khenn | Doug thinks we should add user profile history to WebGUI | 03:54 |
| @preaction | http://www.plainblack.com/uploads/JG/TX/JGTX4AtYjGmpXC5gpxRD2g/rockstar_banner.jpg | 03:54 |
| @preaction | says whom? | 03:55 |
| @preaction | i said the global history thingy | 03:55 |
| @khenn | yeah | 03:55 |
| @khenn | I know | 03:55 |
| @preaction | basically a log of everything important that happens | 03:55 |
| @khenn | each profile shows individual history | 03:55 |
| @preaction | well, that might be a config option | 03:55 |
| @khenn | lots of stuff is logged in WebGUI already | 03:55 |
| @preaction | how do i see it? | 03:56 |
| @khenn | select * from assetHistory; | 03:57 |
| @preaction | so no UI for it | 03:57 |
| @khenn | right | 03:57 |
| @khenn | well it doesn't log profile updates either | 03:57 |
| @preaction | if there were a UI for it, admins would like it | 03:57 |
| @khenn | just asset stuff | 03:58 |
| @preaction | an overview of what their users have been doing | 03:58 |
| @khenn | ah | 03:58 |
| @preaction | i'm also hashing out a design for a sort of Meta wobject, that can do "recent changes" as well as replace those SQLReports that try to mimic assets | 03:58 |
| @preaction | like SQLReports for selecting certain threads from a CS | 03:59 |
| @preaction | so you tell this wobject that I want all Threads underneath this CS that haven't had a reply in a month ordered by time created descending, and it will show them | 04:00 |
| @preaction | or I want all Articles under root ordered by when they were last updated ascending, limit of 10 | 04:01 |
| +dinnerDreamer | thanks for the edits, preaction | 04:26 |
| +dinnerDreamer | once we can add Readonly to the core, we'll protect those constants | 04:26 |
| -!- dinnerDreamer is now known as perlDreamer | 04:26 | |
| @snapcount | Readonly ++ | 04:39 |
| -!- royRogers [n=royRoger@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 05:11 | |
| royRogers | perlDreamer: can you hear me? | 05:12 |
| royRogers | perlDreamer: come in over | 05:12 |
| royRogers | can anybody hear me? | 05:12 |
| royRogers | hello... McFLYY | 05:12 |
| royRogers | can I make the WebGUI work with Safari this is a bug | 05:13 |
| royRogers | I love science to the maximum | 05:13 |
| @snapcount | whoa | 05:14 |
| @snapcount | this thing actually works | 05:14 |
| @snapcount | sweeeeeeeeet | 05:14 |
| -!- royRogers [n=royRoger@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [] | 05:22 | |
| @preaction | is royRogers like duckDodgers? | 05:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm back now, Roy | 05:32 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: what are you up to? | 05:32 |
| @snapcount | oh nothing | 05:32 |
| @snapcount | just adding the ability for people to chat with us directly from wg.org | 05:33 |
| +perlDreamer | huh? | 05:33 |
| +perlDreamer | no way! | 05:33 |
| @snapcount | without installing anything | 05:33 |
| @snapcount | or configuring anything | 05:33 |
| +perlDreamer | do you need a beta tester? | 05:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I have a semi-technical literate person sitting next to me | 05:33 |
| @snapcount | hehe | 05:33 |
| @snapcount | not quite yet | 05:33 |
| @snapcount | I'm still seeing what it can do | 05:34 |
| @snapcount | learning how to use it | 05:34 |
| @snapcount | it's a java applet | 05:34 |
| +perlDreamer | Any leakable rumors about the WUC dates? | 05:34 |
| +perlDreamer | month | 05:34 |
| +perlDreamer | week | 05:34 |
| +perlDreamer | year? | 05:34 |
| @snapcount | fall | 05:34 |
| @snapcount | =) | 05:34 |
| @snapcount | that's all I know really | 05:35 |
| +perlDreamer | that's a good start | 05:35 |
| +perlDreamer | aren't you the WUCmeister this year? | 05:35 |
| @snapcount | I think October but I might be wrong | 05:35 |
| +perlDreamer | or just coordinating sessions? | 05:35 |
| @snapcount | you mean organizing the event? | 05:35 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 05:35 |
| @snapcount | that's all Vrby | 05:35 |
| @snapcount | he's operations | 05:35 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 05:36 | |
| @snapcount | I'll probably have a few opportunities to put everyone to sleep though | 05:36 |
| @rizen | wuc 2007: madison, 2nd week of october | 05:37 |
| +perlDreamer | cool | 05:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Hmmm... Might be able to make that one. | 05:38 |
| +perlDreamer | that will help us budget | 05:38 |
| +perlDreamer | we'll book when the dates are announced | 05:38 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, did knowmad make a dev posting saying that his js cookie bug isn't a bug anymore? | 05:40 |
| @rizen | yes | 05:40 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds like grounds for a bug closure | 05:40 |
| @rizen | indeed | 05:41 |
| @rizen | want me to do it | 05:41 |
| @rizen | or are you there already | 05:41 |
| +perlDreamer | please do, he's not overly fond of me closing his bugs | 05:41 |
| @rizen | closed | 05:41 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/sqlreport---incompatibilities-with-htmltemplateexpr#U3hPwOa1HUNqYjN4wbIG1g | 05:41 |
| @rizen | after we get all these bugs fixed | 05:43 |
| @rizen | we need to go through and remove all the dots from templates | 05:43 |
| @rizen | as part of 7.4 | 05:43 |
| @rizen | roy are you here? | 05:43 |
| @rizen | ping snapcount | 05:44 |
| @snapcount | yes | 05:44 |
| +perlDreamer | do you want to reimport them or modify them inplace? | 05:44 |
| * snapcount runs and hides | 05:45 | |
| @rizen | i'm putting out an executive order | 05:45 |
| @snapcount | uh oh | 05:45 |
| @rizen | and you're the guy that's going to implement it for me | 05:45 |
| @rizen | we DO NOT FORK for 7.4 dev even after the stable release | 05:45 |
| @rizen | until the bug list is completely clean | 05:45 |
| @rizen | no more waiting | 05:45 |
| @snapcount | no more waiting? | 05:46 |
| @rizen | that way we can go into 7.4 dev with a clean slate | 05:46 |
| @snapcount | you mean to fix them all | 05:46 |
| @rizen | yup | 05:46 |
| @snapcount | you are my hero | 05:46 |
| @snapcount | I will be more than happy to implement that | 05:46 |
| +perlDreamer | could we have a list of executive orders on the wiki that is semi-protected? | 05:46 |
| +perlDreamer | that has things like: | 05:46 |
| @rizen | please make that announcement when you release 7.3.x (stable) | 05:47 |
| +perlDreamer | no more new dots | 05:47 |
| +perlDreamer | all API bugs should have tests | 05:47 |
| @snapcount | I should be enforcing stuff like that | 05:47 |
| @rizen | that should go into best practices | 05:47 |
| @rizen | that too | 05:47 |
| @snapcount | actually everyone should | 05:47 |
| perlm | For a data form is there a default value for NOW() ? Or can I just use now()? | 05:47 |
| @snapcount | if you see a commit without docs, dots in tmpl vars | 05:47 |
| @snapcount | call them on it | 05:47 |
| @snapcount | no matter who it is | 05:47 |
| @rizen | the best practices document in the wiki is the list of executive orders | 05:47 |
| @snapcount | they can yell at me if they get pissed at you | 05:47 |
| @snapcount | tell them that | 05:48 |
| @preaction | snapcount: better get some earplugs | 05:48 |
| @snapcount | I could care less | 05:48 |
| @snapcount | =) | 05:48 |
| @preaction | you will when i start digging up dirt on your ex-wife | 05:48 |
| @rizen | pd: we're going to modify in place | 05:48 |
| @rizen | the templates | 05:48 |
| +perlDreamer | cool | 05:48 |
| @rizen | we have to | 05:48 |
| @rizen | cuz we have to regex everybody's custom templates | 05:48 |
| @snapcount | the only person that can get away with it is rizen and that's only if we complain and he reminds us that he's the GodFather | 05:48 |
| @rizen | even i can't get away with it | 05:49 |
| @rizen | don't let me | 05:49 |
| +perlDreamer | we both did last night :( | 05:49 |
| @snapcount | (I wanted you to say that) | 05:49 |
| @snapcount | hehe | 05:49 |
| @snapcount | so there you go | 05:49 |
| @rizen | let me get away with what last night? | 05:49 |
| +perlDreamer | dirty low-down no good non-template documenting hackoids | 05:49 |
| +perlDreamer | we committed with broken template docs | 05:49 |
| +perlDreamer | WikiPage and WikiMaster | 05:49 |
| +perlDreamer | they're the ones I fixed this morning | 05:50 |
| @rizen | broken as in missing info? | 05:50 |
| @rizen | cuz i updated for the new stuff i added | 05:50 |
| +perlDreamer | there was a typo in your tag, so it didn't resolve | 05:50 |
| +perlDreamer | ditto with mine | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | you know another good idea would be to require that people run at least the test suite for the code they are checking in, if it has one | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | takes 20 seconds tops | 05:50 |
| @rizen | that's pretty hard to enforce though | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | well, if the test fails | 05:51 |
| @rizen | cuz how are you going to know if they did it or not | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | (which is how I found the tmpl docs were broke) | 05:51 |
| @rizen | yeah, but you won't know all the time it doesn't fail | 05:51 |
| +perlDreamer | it can be enforced as a pre-checkin hook, but I can guess at the server load | 05:51 |
| +perlDreamer | inside SVN | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | ok | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | I guess we have to trust people a little bit =) | 05:51 |
| * snapcount puts the red tape down | 05:51 | |
| perlm | what crap. On the PB poll, Installiation/Upgrade is winning, but the last time I installed or upgrade WG it was like butta. | 05:53 |
| PedersenMJ | How did you do it, perlm? | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | source, or wre? | 05:54 |
| perlm | source | 05:54 |
| perlm | takes me about 15 minutes with a fresh perl install and a good cpan mirror handy. | 05:54 |
| perlm | and upgrades are so fast and easy they aren't worth mentioning. | 05:55 |
| PedersenMJ | As did I. Saying it was like butta, I wouldn't do. I In order to do it, I had to find and download extra packages, and turn them into proper Debian packages, since I wanted them to be managed by dpkg/aptitude. | 05:55 |
| -!- wgGuest69 [n=wgGuest6@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 05:55 | |
| -!- wgGuest69 [n=wgGuest6@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] | 05:56 | |
| -!- wgGuest03 [n=wgGuest0@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 05:56 | |
| wgGuest03 | ping | 05:57 |
| +perlDreamer | greeting, earthling | 05:57 |
| PedersenMJ | pong | 05:57 |
| wgGuest03 | nice | 05:57 |
| @rizen | is this the web interface? | 05:57 |
| wgGuest03 | so the random nick is working | 05:57 |
| wgGuest03 | yeah | 05:57 |
| @rizen | nice | 05:57 |
| wgGuest03 | I wanted to get fancy with it | 05:57 |
| wgGuest03 | but in order to let peeps select a nick, etc | 05:57 |
| wgGuest03 | I have to use JS | 05:57 |
| wgGuest03 | which I sucketh at | 05:57 |
| +perlDreamer | Chicago is UTC-6? | 05:58 |
| wgGuest03 | I thought I could do it a different way, but the html has to be in the same folder as the java files | 05:58 |
| @preaction | yes | 05:58 |
| wgGuest03 | so it's all gotta go in a zip archive | 05:58 |
| PedersenMJ | yes, Chicago is UTC=6 | 05:58 |
| wgGuest03 | so I can't use cool stuff like FormParam macro, etc | 05:58 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I'm 30 minutes away from committing with test on DateTime | 05:59 |
| @preaction | sweet | 05:59 |
| wgGuest03 | can someone ident this user please | 05:59 |
| @snapcount | heh | 05:59 |
| @preaction | ident? you'd have to register it :p | 06:00 |
| @snapcount | forgot I can do it with this window | 06:00 |
| @snapcount | doh! | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | n=wgGuest0@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com | 06:00 |
| @snapcount | there we go | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | /ident wgGuest03 | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 06:00 |
| @preaction | oh, /whois | 06:00 |
| @snapcount | now I shall put it on a demo server and make sure it still gives my home ip | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | Nick: wgGuest03 | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | Username: n=wgGuest0@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | Real name: WebGUI User | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | Server: irc.freenode.net (http://freenode.net/) | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | Currently on: #webgui | 06:00 |
| @snapcount | and not the demo servers | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | and shall you name if fluffy and give it lots of hugs? | 06:00 |
| @snapcount | then I can look at configuration options | 06:01 |
| @snapcount | perhaps | 06:01 |
| -!- wgGuest03 [n=wgGuest0@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] | 06:01 | |
| -!- wgGuest69 [n=wgGuest6@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 06:02 | |
| perlm | Is this an asset that will allow users to join the IRC? | 06:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Same ip address, snap. | 06:02 |
| @snapcount | sweeeeeet | 06:02 |
| @snapcount | as Borat would say, "Verry nice" | 06:03 |
| wgGuest69 | Chatting from ze demo | 06:03 |
| wgGuest69 | zip archive rules | 06:03 |
| wgGuest69 | lada dada da | 06:03 |
| wgGuest69 | multi user test time | 06:03 |
| wgGuest69 | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1169176980_945/uploads/jV/u8/jVu8wv-Seo7q9qHK2fWuuw/SimpleApplet.html | 06:03 |
| @preaction | perhaps post it as a contribution? "IRC from your WebGUI" | 06:03 |
| +perlDreamer | how did you get content back from the zip archive? | 06:04 |
| @snapcount | by using it... | 06:04 |
| @snapcount | =) | 06:04 |
| -!- wgGuest21 [n=wgGuest2@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui | 06:04 | |
| @snapcount | what do you mean? | 06:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought we couldn't upload HTML, Js, cgi, php, ice tea or the like | 06:04 |
| wgGuest21 | ooh, this is the good one. i've always liked this java client | 06:04 |
| @snapcount | hey | 06:05 |
| wgGuest21 | WHOIS me! | 06:05 |
| @snapcount | that's a good question | 06:05 |
| @snapcount | why did it allow this html file in zip archive | 06:05 |
| @snapcount | I thought I broke that | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah!?? | 06:05 |
| -!- wgGuest21 is now known as preaction-java | 06:05 | |
| @snapcount | it definitely fixed the phishing bug | 06:05 |
| @snapcount | ohhhhhhh | 06:05 |
| @snapcount | I know why it works | 06:05 |
| @snapcount | I only changed AddFileFromFormPost | 06:05 |
| @snapcount | and this uses the AddFileFromFilesystem | 06:06 |
| +perlDreamer | so it isn't borken | 06:06 |
| @snapcount | form post only sees a zip file | 06:06 |
| @snapcount | but then zip archive uses the other method | 06:06 |
| @snapcount | after uncompressing | 06:06 |
| -!- preaction-java [n=wgGuest2@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Client Quit] | 06:06 | |
| @snapcount | I can lock down the allowed commands, etc | 06:07 |
| @snapcount | to make sure they can only use our channel | 06:07 |
| @snapcount | and we're not a free irc gateway provider | 06:07 |
| @preaction | eh, that's not necessary really | 06:07 |
| @preaction | it's not a gateway, it's a client | 06:07 |
| @preaction | it's running on their system | 06:07 |
| +perlDreamer | freenode could be DoS'ed with it, though | 06:07 |
| +perlDreamer | programmatically created clients | 06:07 |
| @snapcount | yeah... I guess we loose at most the bandwidth to load the applet | 06:08 |
| @preaction | the system would run out of resources before freenode would even hiccup | 06:08 |
| @preaction | far easier ways to DoS | 06:08 |
| @snapcount | I had the hiccups once | 06:08 |
| @snapcount | so I'm thinking I should make the html specify a specific size so this is a little pop up screen | 06:09 |
| @snapcount | when people click a button on wg.org | 06:09 |
| @snapcount | thoughts? | 06:09 |
| @preaction | pop-up window sounds good | 06:09 |
| @snapcount | cuz I can't put it inline unless I use the http proxy to do it | 06:09 |
| @snapcount | but that might be cool too | 06:09 |
| @preaction | well, then if they navigate away they lose connection | 06:10 |
| @snapcount | then we can put some instructions around it | 06:10 |
| @snapcount | good point | 06:10 |
| perlm | I just set a data form entry to date and time and not only does it default to the current timestamp, but some wicked-arsed timestamp gui pops ups. teh r0xorz | 06:10 |
| @snapcount | yeah perm: wg is of the hizzle for shizzle | 06:10 |
| @snapcount | as they say in the LBC | 06:10 |
| @snapcount | and I can't spell at all | 06:10 |
| @snapcount | we can set the colors for this, add a bg image, and even sounds for events, etc | 06:11 |
| @snapcount | I'm gonna pimp this thing to look like gooey | 06:11 |
| perlm | If I try to add a bit about the data form to the wiki and totally screw it up, no one will get pissed right? | 06:12 |
| @snapcount | actually I'll try and then get Steve to help me make it look the way I meant instead of a steaming pile | 06:12 |
| @snapcount | no, if they get pissed, tell them to edit it and fix it | 06:12 |
| @snapcount | that's the idea of the wiki | 06:12 |
| @snapcount | collaborative documentation | 06:12 |
| @snapcount | majority rule kinda thing | 06:12 |
| +perlDreamer | Gooey looks kind of like a steaming purple pile | 06:12 |
| @snapcount | oh no you didn't | 06:13 |
| perlm | cool, thanks | 06:13 |
| * snapcount bobs his head and snaps his fingers | 06:13 | |
| @snapcount | np perlm | 06:13 |
| +perlDreamer | I have a problem guys | 06:14 |
| +perlDreamer | with the DateTime test | 06:14 |
| +perlDreamer | I want to test that setting a user's time zone works correctly | 06:15 |
| +perlDreamer | but they shift with daylight savings time | 06:15 |
| +perlDreamer | so the test will fail at certain times of the year | 06:15 |
| +perlDreamer | any thoughts? | 06:15 |
| PedersenMJ | Modify the test. | 06:16 |
| -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 06:17 | |
| snapcount_ | hmm | 06:17 |
| PedersenMJ | You can tell from the local system what the current date/time/dst status is. Have the test smart enough to use that information. | 06:17 |
| @preaction | use a timezone that doesn't have DST | 06:18 |
| @preaction | and/or there's a DateTime method that will return true if DST is on | 06:19 |
| +perlDreamer | this one doesn't have DST | 06:19 |
| +perlDreamer | America/Hermosillo | 06:19 |
| +perlDreamer | UTC-7 | 06:19 |
| snapcount_ | crap... what if someone comes on channel from the web irc and is an ass | 06:20 |
| snapcount_ | we can't kick them out | 06:20 |
| @preaction | we ban their hostmask | 06:20 |
| snapcount_ | wait | 06:20 |
| snapcount_ | yes | 06:20 |
| snapcount_ | true dat | 06:20 |
| @preaction | this java IRC client is just like any other client | 06:20 |
| snapcount_ | this will work | 06:20 |
| @preaction | put your fears to rest | 06:20 |
| snapcount_ | I have to think about this stuff | 06:20 |
| snapcount_ | so it's not a disaster | 06:20 |
| @preaction | it's a good idea, we're smart people, we can make it work | 06:21 |
| snapcount_ | I don't doubt that... I just like to be perfect the first time | 06:21 |
| @preaction | impossible | 06:21 |
| snapcount_ | oh preaction | 06:22 |
| snapcount_ | young Jedi | 06:22 |
| @preaction | perfection is unattainable, as everything is temporal :p | 06:22 |
| snapcount_ | I hope rizen is watching mythbusters right now | 06:22 |
| @preaction | eventually someone will make a better java IRC client, and your solution won't be perfect anymore | 06:22 |
| @preaction | he doesn't do well with philosophical debates? | 06:22 |
| snapcount_ | sure he does, his philosophy however is not compatible with debates | 06:23 |
| @preaction | that's okay, i'm right, and i'm okay with people not realizing that | 06:23 |
| snapcount_ | his philosophy is, "shutup" | 06:23 |
| @preaction | s/right/always right/ | 06:23 |
| snapcount_ | and listent | 06:23 |
| snapcount_ | heh | 06:23 |
| PedersenMJ | Question: I'm almost positive there's an html tag that fits what I'm looking to do, but can't remember it. When setting up a quotation, I've got <q> (to quote), but can't remember how to specify the origin of the quote. | 06:24 |
| @rizen | my name was typed and now i have a blinking screen | 06:24 |
| @rizen | listen here fuckers | 06:24 |
| PedersenMJ | Like: <q>I'm confused</q><qmaker>Me</qmaker> | 06:24 |
| @rizen | <blockquote> | 06:25 |
| @rizen | indents | 06:25 |
| snapcount_ | <pre> | 06:25 |
| snapcount_ | ? | 06:25 |
| @preaction | <cite>? | 06:25 |
| @rizen | <blink> | 06:25 |
| @rizen | hehe | 06:25 |
| @preaction | i think it's <cite> | 06:25 |
| snapcount_ | <royIsYurDaddy | 06:25 |
| snapcount_ | > | 06:25 |
| snapcount_ | yeah blink | 06:25 |
| snapcount_ | that's the one | 06:25 |
| PedersenMJ | cite. That's it. Couldn't remember it for the life of me. | 06:25 |
| snapcount_ | use it EVERYWHERE | 06:25 |
| snapcount_ | on your site | 06:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Stupid of me to forget, but anyway. | 06:25 |
| @preaction | and be sure to have plenty of animated jifs | 06:26 |
| * PedersenMJ adds many blink tags to the latest theme to be uploaded for webgui then. | 06:26 | |
| snapcount_ | doh | 06:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Yes, I'm putting in quotations from the success stories in this theme. This one is gonna come out *nice*. | 06:27 |
| snapcount_ | rock on | 06:27 |
| @rizen | what is that acronym | 06:27 |
| @rizen | tmtf | 06:27 |
| @rizen | or something | 06:27 |
| @rizen | tmrfe | 06:27 |
| @preaction | the man responsible for everything | 06:27 |
| snapcount_ | can you unserialize that please | 06:27 |
| @rizen | tmrfe then | 06:27 |
| @rizen | ok | 06:27 |
| snapcount_ | thank you | 06:27 |
| @rizen | so now when someone types that | 06:28 |
| +perlDreamer | boo, DateTime::TimeZone | 06:28 |
| @rizen | i'll get an alert | 06:28 |
| @rizen | hehe | 06:28 |
| @preaction | used by Anthony Daniels to describe George Lucas | 06:28 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: you don't have to tell me twice :p | 06:28 |
| +perlDreamer | You should have overloaded stringification, but oh no! | 06:28 |
| @rizen | ok, time to watch some tv | 06:28 |
| @rizen | but should it be modern marvels | 06:28 |
| snapcount_ | you can overload operators in Perl?? | 06:28 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, this one's not about you, it's about Mr. Rolsky | 06:28 |
| @rizen | or the sopranos | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | Oh yeah, snapcount | 06:29 |
| snapcount_ | really? | 06:29 |
| snapcount_ | nice | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | oh yes | 06:29 |
| snapcount_ | I thought that was for C++ goodness only | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | perl6 will teach you the true understanding of operator overloading | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | but you can do it in P5 as well | 06:29 |
| snapcount_ | I understand it quite well | 06:29 |
| snapcount_ | when used appropriately it rules | 06:30 |
| snapcount_ | just didn't know Perl was that cool | 06:30 |
| @preaction | Perl is that cool AND MORE! | 06:30 |
| snapcount_ | date manipulation is a good place for overloading | 06:30 |
| snapcount_ | subtracting dates to get days, etc | 06:30 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm telling your girlfriend you said that | 06:30 |
| snapcount_ | number of days rather | 06:30 |
| snapcount_ | nice | 06:30 |
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| snapcount_ | ok | 06:35 |
| +perlDreamer | que pasa? | 06:35 |
| snapcount_ | so what's the html params to make the browser window a certain size | 06:35 |
| snapcount_ | width height | 06:36 |
| snapcount_ | ? | 06:36 |
| snapcount_ | in the head tags | 06:36 |
| snapcount_ | body? | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know. | 06:36 |
| snapcount_ | ah come on | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | no, really | 06:36 |
| snapcount_ | someone else look it up so I don't have to | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not a pop-up kind of guy | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: what was the test I need to run before committing the DateTime change? | 06:36 |
| @preaction | make sure that WebGUI::DateTime->new(time) still works right | 06:37 |
| snapcount_ | perlDreamer: do you think pop up is the way to go for the wg.org irc client? | 06:37 |
| @preaction | with and/or without a session | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | session is now mandatory | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | no session, no object | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | you can't tell one date time from another without a session | 06:38 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: and that's why you need to test this. something bad is probably going to happen because of that | 06:38 |
| +perlDreamer | clue me in, are we talking core code, custom code or what? | 06:38 |
| @preaction | because the call to DateTime->from_epoch calls WebGUI::DateTime->new, and doesn't send a $session | 06:38 |
| @preaction | snapcount_: you specify the height/width in the javascript window.open | 06:39 |
| @preaction | target="_new" is deprecated, but to be honest, if the user wants to pop up, they will, i guess | 06:39 |
| snapcount_ | I was going to have this open from an anchor tag w/o using js | 06:39 |
| snapcount_ | oh | 06:39 |
| snapcount_ | it's deprecated? | 06:39 |
| snapcount_ | _new | 06:39 |
| @preaction | i mean, it works, but it shouldn't | 06:40 |
| @preaction | no, the entire target="" property | 06:40 |
| snapcount_ | replaced by?? | 06:40 |
| @preaction | nothing | 06:40 |
| snapcount_ | all links open inline now | 06:40 |
| @preaction | according to HTML 4.01 and XHTML 2.0 or whatever the latest working drafts are | 06:40 |
| @preaction | frames are just bad ideas anyway, iframes are probably getting deprecated to, and there's some new idea the w3c is kicking around to replace them | 06:41 |
| snapcount_ | so instead <a href='#' onclick='window.open("/url/to/cool");">Image for Launching Chat</a> | 06:41 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: if this works | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | my $epochDt = WebGUI::DateTime->new($session, "1169141075"); | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | you're happy? | 06:42 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: indeed | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | cool, it does | 06:42 |
| @preaction | word | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | sometime I'd like to understand why calling the parent will invoke the child's constructor | 06:42 |
| @preaction | snapcount_: put a "return false;" after window.open();, so that the href="#" doesn't happen | 06:42 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: probably because DateTime->from_epoch calls $class->new | 06:43 |
| @preaction | instead of DateTime->new | 06:43 |
| snapcount_ | ahh yes | 06:43 |
| snapcount_ | I remember that trick | 06:43 |
| +perlDreamer | but if it did that, this should fail | 06:43 |
| +perlDreamer | and it doesn't | 06:43 |
| snapcount_ | what about sizing the browser window? | 06:43 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: i might be totally off my rocker | 06:43 |
| snapcount_ | window.height='blah'; | 06:44 |
| @preaction | snapcount_: the second argument is a bunch of name=value pairs iirc | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I've seen your code, Doug, I doubt it | 06:44 |
| snapcount_ | oh I see | 06:44 |
| @preaction | two of which are "height" and "width" | 06:44 |
| snapcount_ | so it's probably 18 commas, height, 3 commas, width | 06:44 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: i kept running into a problem where the arguments would be all messed up, but it might've been cured when i stopped using a hashref | 06:44 |
| @rizen | window.open("/path/to.html","windowName", "width=100,height=300"); | 06:44 |
| snapcount_ | gracias hombre | 06:45 |
| @preaction | snapcount_: no, window.open("url","height=300,width=100") | 06:45 |
| @preaction | holycrapbeans | 06:45 |
| snapcount_ | ok... I gotta go do some homework... I'll be back soon | 06:45 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: there's some commented-out debug code from that little issue, the "args to webgui::datetime" crap | 06:46 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, I see it | 06:46 |
| @preaction | so if it's not borked, it should be fine | 06:46 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe it works differently because I removed $session from @_ via shift? | 06:46 |
| @preaction | maybe, but probably not, i'm probably mistaken about there being a second call to DateTime->new or something, who knows | 06:48 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I need to convert this: | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI::DateTime->from_epoch(epoch => time(), time_zone => $session->user->profileField("timeZone"))->toMysql; | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | to: | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI::DateTime->new(epoch => time(), time_zone => $session->user->profileField("timeZone"))->toMysql; | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | ? | 06:50 |
| @preaction | where is that? why am i doing that? | 06:50 |
| +perlDreamer | it's in the Calendar code | 06:50 |
| +perlDreamer | lines 889, 1462 | 06:51 |
| +perlDreamer | 889 is getting now for defaultDate | 06:51 |
| +perlDreamer | same thing in www_ical | 06:51 |
| @preaction | that's legacy, use this: WebGUI::DateTime->new($session,time)->toUserTimeZone | 06:52 |
| +perlDreamer | roger | 06:52 |
| @preaction | all the code in Calendar is assuming that toMysql does not translate to UTC, which it now does | 06:52 |
| @preaction | it should never be using toMysql anymore anyway | 06:52 |
| @preaction | and in this case, $params->{start} is user input (or at least treated as such) | 06:53 |
| @preaction | i think getEventsIn does the translation... which is probably counter-intuitive | 06:54 |
| @preaction | yes, it expects that startDate and endDate are in the user's time zone | 06:54 |
| @preaction | (and this is probably how timezones get so messed up, rofl) | 06:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | yeah | 06:55 |
| @preaction | oh god, the magic in getEventsIn to handle all-day events, rofl | 06:55 |
| +perlDreamer | well, my changes pass -wc, time to fire it up | 06:56 |
| +perlDreamer | it works | 06:57 |
| +perlDreamer | time is still wrong, but I only translated the method calls | 06:57 |
| +perlDreamer | haven't actually fixed anything yet | 06:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, time to ask for one more style opinion from people, so that I can finish up a navigation (maybe two), and publish this. The theme in progress is: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2204 | 07:00 |
| Radix-wrk | shoot | 07:01 |
| PedersenMJ | There's a navigation menu (welcome, bio, discography). I'm thinking that *that* menu should be a navigation, from the root, depth 1. And underneath the picture (which is right underneath that menu) I should put another navigation, which includes self and siblings. | 07:01 |
| PedersenMJ | What do you guys think? | 07:02 |
| @preaction | sounds good to me | 07:03 |
| Radix-wrk | another nav sounds fine | 07:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, I have to construct both navs, and fix the placement of the loginbox. After that, write up some docs (since there's one snippet, and one whole folder, that *must* be customized on a per site basis). | 07:05 |
| PedersenMJ | And test some more of the layouts. I'm not getting this one done tonight, I don't think. | 07:05 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: ping | 07:08 |
| @preaction | yo | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm having a little problem | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | have a gander at Asset::Event::www_edit | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | formEndDate and formEndTime | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | when I change the calls for those from | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | defaultValue => $default_start->toMysqlDate, | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | to | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | defaultValue => $default_start->toUserTimeZoneDate | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | then I get a hard error | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | it says that it can't call the user method on an undefined value | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | on line 201 in DateTime.pm | 07:10 |
| @preaction | because you didn't pass a session | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I did | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | the formStartDate and formStartTime above work fine | 07:11 |
| @preaction | ohhh | 07:11 |
| +perlDreamer | it's like $default_start isn't a WebGUI::DateTime anymore | 07:11 |
| @preaction | because we performed some math on it? wtf? | 07:11 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what I'm wondering | 07:12 |
| +perlDreamer | time for $session->errorHandler | 07:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | do you want me to commit what I have so you can check it? | 07:15 |
| @preaction | if you want, sure | 07:15 |
| +perlDreamer | committed | 07:17 |
| +perlDreamer | rev 3594 | 07:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Question for the template masters: I want to know if the current url being accessed starts with a given url. For instance, something like this (except I know this is invalid syntax, or at least think it is): <tmp_if currentPage.startsWith("http://localhost/home")>output this</tmpl_if> | 07:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Anyway to do this? | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | why? | 07:19 |
| @preaction | no, not with H::T | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | you're looking at a Navigation template? | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | there may be a different var that will tell you what you want | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | like currentPage.isParent | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | currentPage.isAncestor | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | etc | 07:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Same theme: I want to highlight a specific tab at the top menu, and highlight that tab.... Aha! currentPage.isAncestor! That should do it. | 07:20 |
| +perlDreamer | That nav template is very powerful | 07:20 |
| PedersenMJ | Now I really need to learn how to use that variable properly in the template. And, believe it or not, I'm trying to get the info from the docs before harassing people here. | 07:20 |
| +perlDreamer | If you have suggestions for improving the docs, please share them | 07:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I wrote a good chunk of them | 07:21 |
| +perlDreamer | and I know they need help :) | 07:21 |
| @preaction | they make the most out of a truly strange template :p | 07:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, I don't have suggestions, not yet. | 07:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Once I have a better idea of what questions I'm even trying to ask, then I can better suggest how to update docs. | 07:22 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: now that IS interesting... trying to figure out wtf | 07:24 |
| +perlDreamer | it is missing a session var | 07:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I can't figure out how | 07:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, now I see somewhat how those docs tie together to the variables. perlDreamer: Something that isn't obvious, and I don't know how to make it obvious, regardless of the docs (and it may be that they're there, and I haven't read them yet): Each type of template has its own set of variables in addition to the session vars, etc. So, when working on a nav template, it's important to know the variables for the nav template. And, until now, I didn't ma | 07:26 |
| +perlDreamer | you got cut off | 07:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Dang. Where did it cut out? | 07:26 |
| +perlDreamer | " And, until now, I didn't ma" | 07:26 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: it gets set to undef, it's still a WebGUI::DateTime | 07:27 |
| PedersenMJ | And, until now, I didn't make that connection. | 07:27 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: that is weird | 07:27 |
| @preaction | ... and it's the fucking math that does it | 07:29 |
| @preaction | BUT WHY? | 07:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Anyway, I'm off to bed. 7 items on my todo list (most of them minor, I think), and then I can publish this theme. Sometime this weekend, hopefully. | 07:30 |
| @preaction | .. and I knew that putting a session object in there was a bad idea | 07:30 |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ, I'm not sure I followed your comment. Can we pick it up again tomorrow? | 07:30 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I wish there was a way around it | 07:31 |
| @preaction | there is, but i don't like it | 07:31 |
| +perlDreamer | globals? | 07:31 |
| @preaction | use AUTOLOAD | 07:31 |
| +perlDreamer | ew | 07:31 |
| @preaction | or... create a wrapper for every DateTime.pm method | 07:31 |
| +perlDreamer | double ew | 07:31 |
| +perlDreamer | not possible | 07:31 |
| @preaction | yeah... | 07:31 |
| +perlDreamer | you'd have to include all the subclasses | 07:32 |
| +perlDreamer | it wouldn't work | 07:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Absolutely! Right now, I'm in a poor communication mode. My ideas don't come out well. Remind me tomorrow about the docs, and I'll do my best to explain better. | 07:32 |
| PedersenMJ | g'night. Will chat manana. | 07:33 |
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| @preaction | son of a bitch | 07:33 |
| +perlDreamer | you got it? | 07:34 |
| +perlDreamer | it has something to do with getDateTimeEnd | 07:34 |
| +perlDreamer | I had no problems at all with getDateTimeStart | 07:34 |
| @preaction | no, it's not solvable | 07:35 |
| +perlDreamer | what is going on? | 07:38 |
| @preaction | black-box problem, i don't know why the session is getting unset | 07:40 |
| @preaction | and it's far too late for me to try to fix it | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 07:41 |
| @preaction | and they're going to kill me for spending my time on this when i should be working Alumni project... god damn it | 07:41 |
| +perlDreamer | more hacking tomorrow? | 07:41 |
| @preaction | indeed | 07:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I have some ideas, I'll try them out and see what I can ge | 07:41 |
| @preaction | but i'm fearing that it might be impossible to proceed and reversion only way to go | 07:42 |
| @preaction | good luck | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks | 07:42 |
| * preaction & emoness with emo chick | 07:42 | |
| +perlDreamer | we need to subclass clone | 07:49 |
| +perlDreamer | nope | 07:55 |
| @rizen | pd i wanted tell you 2 things | 07:55 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 07:56 |
| @rizen | a) thanks for helping out with all the big fixing | 07:56 |
| @rizen | b) i have to do accounting tommorrow | 07:56 |
| @rizen | so i won't be able to do any bug fixing | 07:56 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, JT | 07:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm neck deep in DateTime anyway | 07:56 |
| @rizen | i'll be back on bug fixing w-f of next week though | 07:56 |
| @rizen | between support | 07:56 |
| @rizen | anyway | 07:56 |
| @rizen | thanks | 07:56 |
| +perlDreamer | you're welcome, JT | 07:57 |
| @rizen | good luck with DateTime | 07:57 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks | 07:57 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I'm hoping you read logs | 07:58 |
| +perlDreamer | you were right | 07:59 |
| +perlDreamer | this will never, ever work | 07:59 |
| +perlDreamer | we cannot put a session object into WebGUI::DateTime | 07:59 |
| +perlDreamer | inside add_duration, it overwrites $self with a newly created object | 07:59 |
| +perlDreamer | this is done in several places | 08:00 |
| +perlDreamer | %$self = %$new; | 08:00 |
| +perlDreamer | getting closer | 08:18 |
| +perlDreamer | not subclassing clone, but from_object | 08:18 |
| +perlDreamer | It's done. | 08:26 |
| +perlDreamer | and fixed | 08:26 |
| @rizen | wahoo | 08:27 |
| @rizen | nice job man | 08:27 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks | 08:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd like you, Frank, Doug and Roy to give it the once over tomorrow to make sure that it's robust enough | 08:27 |
| @rizen | i can't tomorrow | 08:28 |
| @rizen | support + accounting | 08:28 |
| @rizen | i'm tied up all day | 08:28 |
| @rizen | but next week or this weekend | 08:28 |
| @rizen | sure | 08:28 |
| +perlDreamer | anytime before 7.3.6 would probably be fine | 08:28 |
| @rizen | ok, must really hit the sack now | 08:31 |
| @rizen | have to get up early | 08:31 |
| @rizen | accounting shit takes all day | 08:31 |
| @rizen | bye | 08:31 |
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| +MrHairgrease | snapcount | 12:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | shouldn't you be asleep? | 12:35 |
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| @rizen | holy fucking shit batman | 17:05 |
| @rizen | i just found a slow running query in the asset system | 17:05 |
| @rizen | on some larger sites the query would take more than 6 seconds to run | 17:05 |
| @rizen | but a new index i've added brings it down to 0.00003 seconds | 17:06 |
| ckotil | nice | 17:06 |
| @rizen | yes and no...i mean i'm glad to have found it, but sheepish to have not known about it sooner | 17:07 |
| ckotil | naturally | 17:09 |
| @rizen | the best part is that this particular fix should increase the performance of the navigation system severely | 17:10 |
| @rizen | the nav system is habitually the worst performing subsystem in webgui | 17:10 |
| @rizen | mainly cuz of everything it has to do | 17:10 |
| @rizen | it's really loading a lot of assets | 17:10 |
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| @snapcount | where's khenn | 17:44 |
| @snapcount | perlbot seen khenn | 17:44 |
| @rizen | he's here at my house | 17:44 |
| @rizen | just getting set up | 17:44 |
| @snapcount | oh | 17:44 |
| @snapcount | tell him he broke the ProfileField test for checkbox | 17:45 |
| @rizen | he has to sign some corporate documents | 17:45 |
| @snapcount | so either his code sucks or the test is broke | 17:45 |
| @rizen | so he came over | 17:45 |
| @snapcount | b/c of the change | 17:45 |
| @snapcount | cool | 17:45 |
| @rizen | i'll tell him | 17:45 |
| @snapcount | ty sir | 17:45 |
| perlm | does the Databases wobject's dsn need to include host information? | 17:45 |
| @snapcount | it defaults to localhost | 17:46 |
| @snapcount | if not specified | 17:46 |
| perlm | or is "DBI:mysql:database=wiki_test;" good enough? | 17:46 |
| @rizen | roy | 17:46 |
| @snapcount | yes | 17:46 |
| @rizen | vrby says you need to call chris palamara | 17:46 |
| @snapcount | ok... I'm on the phone with another client atm | 17:46 |
| @snapcount | is it urgent? | 17:46 |
| @rizen | the ip auth module is borked after the 7.3.5 upgrade | 17:46 |
| @rizen | fairly | 17:46 |
| @rizen | but you can finish your clal | 17:46 |
| @rizen | call | 17:46 |
| @snapcount | k | 17:47 |
| perlm | This make any sense to anyone from the webgui.log? Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WSClient. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel" via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WSClient" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 492. | 17:57 |
| perlm | If I ask too many questions here, just tell me to shut up. | 17:57 |
| ckotil | i've seen that error before | 18:04 |
| ckotil | i forget what caused it. it was a bitch tho | 18:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | khenn: you here this morning? | 18:10 |
| @khenn | I'm here | 18:11 |
| @khenn | just signed in | 18:11 |
| @khenn | what's up? | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | good timing :) | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | If Checkboxes are no good for profile fields, how about Checklists? | 18:11 |
| @khenn | those work | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | Or does wrapping it as a list make it okay? | 18:11 |
| @khenn | I disabled checkboxes | 18:12 |
| @khenn | they do not work at all | 18:12 |
| @khenn | I created a checklist with 1 element | 18:12 |
| @khenn | that worked fine for a "checkbox" | 18:12 |
| +perlDreamer | cool, thanks. | 18:12 |
| +perlDreamer | There's a test that double checks that all the correct profile fields report user profile enabledness | 18:12 |
| +perlDreamer | and it needs to be updated, so I thought I'd check for all the Check* form fields | 18:13 |
| @khenn | can't do it | 18:15 |
| @khenn | checklists work | 18:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Okay, I'll just add Checkbox to the test list and commit it. | 18:15 |
| +perlDreamer | perlm: what version of WebGUI are you using? | 18:17 |
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| ckotil | I think the webgui collateral Image Manager has a bug, it inserts an image into the rich editor but gives it the webguified internal url, /public/uploads/eh/... | 18:26 |
| ckotil | nm. the file just disappeared on me. | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | phew | 18:27 |
| * perlDreamer is over bugged | 18:27 | |
| ckotil | heh | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | we always appreciate people finding bugs, but the fixing has been slow going recently | 18:28 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe people could find easy bugs to fix | 18:28 |
| ckotil | the collateral Image manager works quite well | 18:29 |
| -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 18:42 | |
| -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 18:50 | |
| ckotil | Can the search asset search files that have been uploaded? | 19:11 |
| ckotil | .doc .html ...etc | 19:11 |
| ckotil | 19:11 | |
| +perlDreamer | I think so | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | there are plugins that translate them to plaintext | 19:12 |
| ckotil | sweet | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | hmm | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | that means that we could even do images with OCR if we had the right software | 19:13 |
| ckotil | wow that would be interesting | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount_: is the Zip Archive going to be changed to not allow uploading of HTML files? | 19:14 |
| snapcount_ | no way | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | you rock! | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | bug - 1 | 19:15 |
| snapcount_ | tis ze point of the asset | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | but I found another bug | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | bug + 1 | 19:15 |
| snapcount_ | that's good | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | the Zip Archive and Storage get real unhappy if you upload a zip file with subdirectories in it | 19:15 |
| ckotil | perlDreamer: does the plugin that translates the files into plaintext ship with webgui 7.2.3? | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | good question | 19:16 |
| ckotil | i tried searching for some strings that are contained in a pdf, and got back 0 results. either bc it doesnt ship with it, or bc my search asset isnt configured to search those files. | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | in the config file there is an entry for searchIndexerPlugins | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | it tell the indexer how to handle files with various suffixes | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | and the default settings are for text only | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | to extend if to pdf, you'd add a .pdf entry and pdftotext, which should be standard on any Linux system | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | or .doc, catdoc, etc. | 19:19 |
| ckotil | ah ok. i see it. thanks | 19:19 |
| +perlDreamer | np | 19:19 |
| perlm | perlDreamer 7.3.3 beta | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I was looking through the IRC logs and you were having a problem | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I forget what it was. Can you please remind me? | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | or did you get it fixed? | 19:38 |
| snapcount_ | I have a problem | 19:39 |
| +perlDreamer | What is your problem _snapcount? | 19:39 |
| snapcount_ | there are 700 million bugs posted and their status isn't closed | 19:39 |
| snapcount_ | =) | 19:39 |
| snapcount_ | can you fix that one? | 19:39 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 19:40 | |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 19:40 |
| snapcount_ | I'll give you a gold star... | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | 699 million bugs to go :) | 19:40 |
| snapcount_ | excellent | 19:40 |
| snapcount_ | just keep counting as you close them | 19:40 |
| snapcount_ | so I know when you're done | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | you got it, chief | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ, please tell me your template variable observatin from last night again! | 19:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Thank you for reminding me. | 19:41 |
| PedersenMJ | This is probably somewhere in the docs already, and my skipping around and through them prevented me from seeing it. However, what I did not figure out until last night was that each type of object template has it's own set of predefined variables. | 19:42 |
| PedersenMJ | For instance, creating a new (or modifying an existing) Navigation Template gives me access to variables which are available to all nav templates. | 19:42 |
| +perlDreamer | right | 19:42 |
| ckotil | perlDreamer: Are there any extra steps i need to take to get pdf search working? i've got pdftotext configured in the conf. ive told the search asset to search everything. reindexed the site. | 19:42 |
| PedersenMJ | Like creating a new Page Layout template would give me access to Page Layout variables. | 19:43 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil: I'm working on theory through reading code. I haven't actually done it. | 19:43 |
| ckotil | i understand | 19:43 |
| +perlDreamer | and still not working? | 19:43 |
| ckotil | in theory it should work tho right? | 19:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Simply put, until something was said last night (I can't remember the exact wording, though, I'm sorry to say) I didn't even understand the point of *having* the "Navigation Template" section of the helpfile. | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 19:44 |
| ckotil | yeah , not working, i cant get it to return anything. | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | all the other plugins put data out on stdout, does pdftotext? | 19:44 |
| ckotil | ah, no it does not. it creates a txt file | 19:45 |
| ckotil | ill read tha man to see if i can make it output via stdout | 19:46 |
| PedersenMJ | ckotil: pdftotext filename.pdf - | 19:47 |
| ckotil | ;] | 19:47 |
| ckotil | thanks | 19:47 |
| PedersenMJ | At least, that just worked for me on a pdf that I have here :) | 19:47 |
| ckotil | hrm now i wonder how to get that into the conf | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know if you can pass postfix arguments | 19:48 |
| ckotil | yeah i just did that too and it worked fine | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, that's the problem | 19:48 |
| ckotil | yeah :/ | 19:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Change the plugin to call "pdftotextwrap", instead. Make a shell script named "pdftotextwrap", and put it in the path. Here's the contents of pdftotextwrap | 19:48 |
| PedersenMJ | #!/bin/sh | 19:48 |
| PedersenMJ | pdftotext $1 - | 19:49 |
| ckotil | noice. | 19:49 |
| PedersenMJ | You can put the normal error checking/etc in it if you wish (and should). | 19:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Anyway, perlDreamer, did my little observation about docs make any sense? | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know how to change it, though | 19:50 |
| PedersenMJ | I don't know how to have made it stand out for me, either. | 19:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Wait, yes, I do: My primary starting point for the docs was the "How To Build A Style" page. | 19:51 |
| PedersenMJ | That, after all, was my task in mind. | 19:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Something in there which explained about templates/template vars, or told me to specifically read a secondary page about templates, would have prevented me asking several stupid questions. | 19:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Correction: Maybe not stupid, but questions that were answered in the docs. | 19:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, that's why I was asking such stupid questions. I didn't know where to go from there, or how to even ask where to go. That page is very self-contained, which leads the reader to believe that it has all the info. At least, it did me. | 19:55 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.plainblack.com/builders/how-to-build-a-style | 19:55 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm *definitely* writing up a new version of that page while I do my next theme. And the contributing it to wg/pb. | 19:56 |
| ckotil | enter it into the contest | 19:57 |
| ckotil | although. that tutorial is much better than i was able to find ~ 6 months ago | 19:57 |
| PedersenMJ | It *is* a good tutorial, as it stands. It has a few errors in it (which I'll be documenting with the next rev), and lacks a few things that would help in gaining understanding. I converted the first theme more or less by rote, and didn't gain much understanding. Nor did I gain much info on *how* to gain understanding. Most of that, I got from here. | 19:59 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm *not* complaining about the help I got from here, not at all. Please don't think I am. I just want to do even better for the next person who seeks that answer :) | 20:00 |
| PedersenMJ | And yes, now that I know about that contest, I'll definitely enter it. Hey, couldn't hurt :) | 20:01 |
| -!- cap10morgan [n=cap10mor@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui | 20:30 | |
| cap10morgan | I'm about to start writing a "RecentPosts" macro to display the top 2 or 3 posts in a collaboration system to create a little preview of it elsewhere on the site. Would that be reinventing the wheel? | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | You might search the boards for that. I think I've seen it there. | 20:31 |
| cap10morgan | perlDreamer: will do | 20:31 |
| snapcount_ | hey on pb.com | 20:44 |
| snapcount_ | if you guys hover over support button | 20:44 |
| snapcount_ | does it draw a jagged black rectangle through it? | 20:44 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 20:44 |
| snapcount_ | my computer must be pissed | 20:44 |
| snapcount_ | I have four VMs running | 20:44 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | that would do it | 20:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, background becomes orange around support, that's it. | 20:45 |
| snapcount_ | so it's prolly FF puffing it's final breaths | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | did you get my lame contest entry? | 20:45 |
| snapcount_ | ty | 20:45 |
| snapcount_ | that's actually useful me thinks | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | cool | 20:45 |
| snapcount_ | more detail would be good but you can't really add any more | 20:45 |
| snapcount_ | b/c it's so specific to each router, etc | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 20:46 |
| snapcount_ | if their setting up a server, they should be able to follow | 20:46 |
| snapcount_ | it's appropriate for the intended audience | 20:46 |
| snapcount_ | as it should be | 20:46 |
| snapcount_ | I'm going to do the karma transfers at the end of the contest | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | it's okay | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I have lots of karma | 20:47 |
| snapcount_ | so I only have to do it once for each person | 20:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Might be worth mentioning in there that the Linksys WRT54G does not have the ability to forward to a different port (ie: port 12345 can not be forwarded to port 80) | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | is that before or after hacking it? | 20:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Basically, a place to put notes in on routers, which is separate from your entry. Before any hacking of it. | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | after installing Linux on it I'll bet it allows port forwarding | 20:48 |
| PedersenMJ | It does port forwarding just fine. | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | bugs-2 | 20:48 |
| PedersenMJ | i.e.: Forward port 12345 on firewall to port 12345 on the internal server? No problem. | 20:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Forward port 12345 to port 80 on the server? Doesn't work out of the box. | 20:49 |
| +perlDreamer | bummer | 20:49 |
| +perlDreamer | I wonder if my Verizon default router will do that... | 20:49 |
| +perlDreamer | well, there are instructions on how to setup the WRE on high ports somewhere | 20:49 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll amend the HOWTO with those notes. | 20:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Dunno. But I know that I was helping someone set up a DVR server, and we had to fight with that issue very much. | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | Thanks, PedersenMJ! | 20:50 |
| PedersenMJ | They wanted external access to their internal dvr. I didn't agree, but hey, it's what they wanted. You're welcome. | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount_: we need a workflow to post messages to IRC when bugs are opened or closed. | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | then we could ask perlbot how many open bugs there are | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | you could also bridge karma that way | 20:51 |
| PedersenMJ | perlDreamer: Don't forget to add a link for no-ip. I'd have to google, since I've never used them. | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 20:51 |
| snapcount_ | problem is this | 20:51 |
| snapcount_ | our ISP (and most others on the planet) | 20:52 |
| snapcount_ | will not allow you to connect to irc from your server | 20:52 |
| snapcount_ | at all | 20:52 |
| snapcount_ | for anything | 20:52 |
| snapcount_ | however | 20:52 |
| snapcount_ | if there is a webservice or something we could use | 20:53 |
| snapcount_ | that might be possible | 20:53 |
| snapcount_ | maybe we could add soap listener to perl bot | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | there you go | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: bugs | 20:53 |
| perlbot | http://tinyurl.com/glbun | 20:53 |
| snapcount_ | on port (anti-irc port# goes here) | 20:53 |
| snapcount_ | but even then | 20:54 |
| snapcount_ | we may be in violation | 20:54 |
| snapcount_ | so we might need to connect to a webservice on the server perlbot runs on | 20:54 |
| snapcount_ | some kind of cgi script | 20:54 |
| +perlDreamer | how did perlbot know about the bugs keyword? | 20:54 |
| snapcount_ | then we would be safe | 20:54 |
| +perlDreamer | that's some bug | 20:54 |
| snapcount_ | now what would really be cool | 20:55 |
| snapcount_ | is if you could get a bug summary and close bugs from IRC | 20:56 |
| * snapcount_ shrugs | 20:56 | |
| snapcount_ | it's a slippery slope b/c of our ISP so I doubt JT would even take the chance with it | 20:57 |
| +perlDreamer | the summary would be awesome, but controlling who can close bugs might be tricky | 20:57 |
| snapcount_ | I didn't say it would be easy | 20:57 |
| snapcount_ | just cool =) | 20:57 |
| snapcount_ | something like "perlbot close bug 12345 my-password-goes-here" | 20:58 |
| snapcount_ | but then you'd need ssl, etc | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | plus over the channel it would be plaintext | 20:58 |
| snapcount_ | you would priv mesg him | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | but if perlbot could look up my IRC handle from my wG account | 20:58 |
| snapcount_ | just like authenticating to chan serv | 20:58 |
| ckotil | any diff funcitonality in webgui? | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be nice | 21:18 |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as perlRunner | 21:32 | |
| ckotil | yeah i was thinking the same thing | 21:45 |
| xdanger | have thought about that too =) | 21:46 |
| xdanger | I'd be c00lio... | 21:46 |
| ckotil | i wonder if theres an rfe for it? | 21:46 |
| xdanger | I probably could code it =) | 21:47 |
| ckotil | no rfe. | 21:48 |
| ckotil | we've been discussing requirements for a document management system. and webgui meets most of the requirements. | 21:49 |
| xdanger | just pop up this in there: http://search.cpan.org/~dwheeler/Text-Diff-HTML-0.04/lib/Text/Diff/HTML.pm | 21:49 |
| xdanger | I wanna have myself a new macbook pro =( | 21:52 |
| xdanger | this ibook is slooooow... | 21:52 |
| ckotil | yeah. the pro's are sick | 21:52 |
| ckotil | twice as much as a macbook | 21:53 |
| perlm | perlRunner The problem I was having earlier is errors like this keep showing up in my webgui.log Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WSClient. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel" via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WSClient" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 492. | 21:54 |
| perlm | and How-To-Build-A-Style worked really well for me. Between that file and the css03.css example, I was able to understand the frameworks invovled. | 21:54 |
| -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 22:01 | |
| -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui | 22:02 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ | 22:02 | |
| perlm | Okay, I've looked and can't find it. In a Data Form, what are "tabs"? When I create one and put entry fields in it, they don't show up in the form. | 22:15 |
| perlm | I'm guessing that the Data Forms are bugged and that Tabs shouldn't be used. | 22:30 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 22:32 | |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 22:35 | |
| @rizen | exit | 22:40 |
| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] | 22:40 | |
| diakopter | perlm: the WSClient problem is a known issue with the version of the wre you are using | 22:44 |
| diakopter | you have to install some additional perl modules from cpan in the wre's perl. | 22:44 |
| +perlRunner | perlm: You have to add tabs to the form and then move dataform fields into them. | 22:52 |
| +perlRunner | ++diakopter for WSClient help | 22:53 |
| +perlRunner | perlbot: karma diakopter | 22:53 |
| perlbot | Karma for diakopter: 1 | 22:53 |
| +perlRunner | how 'bout that, just like in #perl6 | 22:53 |
| perlm | I don't use WRE. And I have added the tabs to the form, but they never show up and also my fields disapear if I assign them to a tab. | 22:53 |
| ckotil | when using commite w/ approval , can i require x amount of people to approve before its commited? | 22:53 |
| +perlRunner | ckotil: Not with the current workflow. | 22:54 |
| ckotil | will it ever? | 22:54 |
| +perlRunner | it would require a custom workflow | 22:54 |
| +perlRunner | it is doable | 22:54 |
| ckotil | ok. | 22:54 |
| +perlRunner | maybe a custom Workflow Activity as well | 22:54 |
| +perlRunner | perlm: just for kicks, can you duplicate your setup on a webgui demo site? | 22:55 |
| +perlRunner | http://demo.plainblack.com | 22:55 |
| +perlRunner | perlbot learn http://demo.plainblack.com as demo | 22:56 |
| perlbot | added http://demo.plainblack.com to the database | 22:56 |
| +perlRunner | perlbot tell perlRunner about demo | 22:56 |
| perlbot | demo isn't something I know about, perlRunner | 22:56 |
| +perlRunner | perlbot unlearn http://demo.plainblack.com | 22:56 |
| +perlRunner | perlbot learn demo as http://demo.plainblack.com | 22:56 |
| perlbot | added demo to the database | 22:56 |
| +perlRunner | perlbot help | 22:56 |
| perlbot | (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip) | 22:56 |
| +crythias | perlbot tell me about marriage | 22:59 |
| perlbot | marriage isn't something I know about, crythias | 22:59 |
| +crythias | perlbot tell me about being cool. | 22:59 |
| perlbot | being cool isn't something I know about, crythias | 22:59 |
| +crythias | perlbot tell me about women | 22:59 |
| +crythias | wow | 23:00 |
| +crythias | I feel... scared | 23:00 |
| +perlRunner | perlbot is in good company | 23:00 |
| +crythias | (15:58:22) perlbot: told me: The woman is passive. She waits for his initiation, judging him in everything he does. She waits for him to kiss her, not resisting but always silently judging. Always judging. Always silently. And when he finally fails to meet her expectations, he won't get an explanation, he won't know why this one slipped through his fingers, leaving only a final papercut on his heart. | 23:01 |
| +perlRunner | I was wrong | 23:01 |
| +perlRunner | perlbot is wise | 23:01 |
| +perlRunner | perlbot: what do you know? | 23:05 |
| perlbot | I know everything | 23:05 |
| @preaction | good god that's emo | 23:06 |
| +perlRunner | what is emo? | 23:06 |
| +perlRunner | I need someone with IE to help me for about 2 minutes with a bug. | 23:07 |
| +perlRunner | any takers? | 23:07 |
| @preaction | the kids who listen to bands like Fallout Boy and Muse, who spout on about how the girls they love don't love them, who whine and moan and complain that they aren't handed everything in life | 23:07 |
| +crythias | ok | 23:07 |
| @preaction | the ones who can't simply shut up and stop whining and think about someone else besides themselves for a change | 23:07 |
| +perlRunner | crythias: grab a demo account and try to edit any template | 23:08 |
| +crythias | ie7 ok? | 23:08 |
| +perlRunner | I don't know | 23:08 |
| perlm | perlRunner, setting it up right now. But remember, I'm in 7.3.3(beta) | 23:08 |
| +perlRunner | perlm: this has to be 7.3.5 | 23:08 |
| * crythias feels weird... IE 7 never runs on my machine. | 23:09 | |
| +perlRunner | crythias: all I know is that vrby said that he can't edit templates on 7.3.5 | 23:09 |
| +crythias | logging in, admin on | 23:10 |
| +crythias | edit article | 23:10 |
| +crythias | display, edit style03 | 23:11 |
| perlm | perlRunner, I did it and now I know it must be user error, because my form entry disappeared into the Tab which isn't visible. | 23:11 |
| +crythias | save. ok | 23:11 |
| +perlRunner | no problems? | 23:11 |
| +crythias | commit changes | 23:11 |
| +crythias | no problems. | 23:11 |
| perlm | yes problems | 23:12 |
| perlm | I can't find the tab | 23:12 |
| +crythias | perlm: one sec | 23:12 |
| perlm | I committed the changes, then ran the workflow | 23:12 |
| +perlRunner | perlm: try using the tab template | 23:12 |
| perlm | tab template on the data form or page layout? | 23:12 |
| +perlRunner | data form | 23:12 |
| perlm | I see. The tab form made the tab show up with my missing entry, but the non-tab entries disappeared. Procedurally this can make the data form wizard broken, since you can't create tabs before entries, so if you use a tabbed layout, you will not find your entries, and a regular layout will make your tabs invisible. | 23:14 |
| perlm | But that resolves my problem. Just had to learn the trick of the data forms :) | 23:14 |
| +perlRunner | crythias, thanks for the help. I'll have to wait for specifics from vrby | 23:14 |
| +perlRunner | perlm: that may make a good contest entry. How to use Tabs on the DataForm | 23:15 |
| perlm | I'll stick it in the Wiki if I get a chance today. | 23:15 |
| +perlRunner | perlbot tell us about wiki | 23:16 |
| +perlRunner | perlbot relearn wiki as http://wiki.webgui.org | 23:16 |
| perlbot | relearned entry for wiki | 23:16 |
| +crythias | sticky wiki | 23:16 |
| +perlRunner | perlbot tell us about wiki | 23:16 |
| perlm | Looks like I'll have to edit the tab template so that tab text appears above the entries. I need to use that as instructions for that particular tab. | 23:18 |
| ckotil | while fooling around with the workflow, i think i found a bug. i required approval from 2 differnet groups. then I got a user to commit the version tag, and the version tag & the file simply disappear | 23:19 |
| @preaction | perlbot wiki | 23:19 |
| perlbot | http://wiki.webgui.org | 23:19 |
| ckotil | the user didnt exist in either of the 2 groups. | 23:19 |
| @preaction | I'm going to start running a Perlbot (not the same as this perlbot, which is a chrisbot) in here, for WebGUI | 23:20 |
| @preaction | perlbot is for #perl mostly ;) | 23:20 |
| +perlRunner | who is running this perlbot? | 23:20 |
| perlbot | I already have an entry for who | 23:20 |
| @preaction | i've got like three computers doing absolutely nothing at the moment | 23:20 |
| @preaction | chris62vw, one of the ops at #perl | 23:20 |
| ckotil | :x 'pending versions | 23:21 |
| ckotil | ' | 23:21 |
| +perlRunner | wrong window | 23:21 |
| PedersenMJ | hey, wait, what error is vrby getting? | 23:22 |
| +perlRunner | can't edit a template | 23:22 |
| ckotil | how do you commmit a pending version? | 23:22 |
| PedersenMJ | what does he see when he tries? | 23:22 |
| +perlRunner | PedersenMJ: blank screen | 23:22 |
| +perlRunner | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/template-editor-broken#i5lfYHiTczFgPyPsJQKWNA | 23:22 |
| PedersenMJ | pR: I ask because I've started to see some odd behavior with Opera, and thought it was just me, but that error sounds similar. | 23:23 |
| perlm | I LOVE WebGUI. 30 seconds and I've moved the Tab subtext from below the field entries to above the field entries. RAWK! | 23:24 |
| perlm | I'm off to show the users how to use the tabs | 23:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Basically, I click on edit on the template, and instead of getting the template, I get a garbled version of the page (equivalent to visiting http://www.nochara.org/burned ), but that error never happens in Firefox. | 23:25 |
| PedersenMJ | brb | 23:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, back. | 23:34 |
| +perlRunner | PedersenMJ: have you read the built-in documentation with wG? | 23:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Not all of it. In fact, not much of it, truthfully. | 23:51 |
| +perlRunner | There is a lot of info in there, if you can wade through it all | 23:51 |
| +perlRunner | at last count, about 350 pages | 23:51 |
| PedersenMJ | I believe it. My major issue is that I'm not sure of *how* to read it. Yes, I know that sounds dumb, but much of what I have read assumes other pieces of knowledge. Being as this is a book, there's not any clear start to finish point for that documentation. | 23:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Erm, being as this is *not* a book. | 23:53 |
| +perlRunner | When you turn on Admin and go to the Admin Console, it's the life saver icon. | 23:53 |
| +perlRunner | It's also on most editing screens | 23:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep, I've seen it, and browsed into it. But, where *actually* do you start reading it? Nothing jumps out at me as "Here's the foundations of what you need to know in order for the rest of it to make sense." | 23:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, that might be another document I could work on writing up. | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Sat Jan 20 2007 | ||
| +perlRunner | the docs are topical, not thematic, so it's usually best to browse the chapters or view the index | 00:02 |
| -!- khenn [n=fdillon@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] | 00:03 | |
| PedersenMJ | Right. But that then begs the question: Which chapter do I need to view to answer the question I have right now? | 00:04 |
| +perlRunner | it would be nice if when you were editing a template that it would give you a link to the correct template docs for that type of template. | 00:04 |
| +perlRunner | was that a rhetorical question? | 00:04 |
| PedersenMJ | For the novice at webgui, there's a lot of chapters there, and not a lot of way to know which chapter you need to read. | 00:05 |
| +perlRunner | yes | 00:05 |
| +perlRunner | Maybe we need another index | 00:05 |
| +perlRunner | Beginner topics: | 00:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Index? No, I don't think so. Not unless you mean something different than I do when I think of an index (I think of what I find in the back of a reference manual). | 00:06 |
| +perlRunner | maybe I need to start thinking about the built-in docs as a reference manual | 00:07 |
| +perlRunner | since I spend so much time maintaining them, I kind of take for granted my familiarity with them | 00:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Unfortunately, I still fit the definition of a novice. | 00:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, here's what I think of, for me (note that I am a weirdo by most people's definitions, so this is probably not universal): I like to read. Give me a book, and I *will* read it, as long as it is readable. | 00:09 |
| PedersenMJ | To that end, the webgui primer probably will be what I want/need. Should probably get it, too, now that I think about it. | 00:10 |
| PedersenMJ | Anyway, here's where the docs fail *for me*: The pages talk about topics that are more thoroughly covered in other chapters, but fail to link to those other chapters. | 00:10 |
| +perlRunner | now that's something that can be fixed | 00:11 |
| +perlRunner | do tell | 00:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Or, in fact, fail to mention those other chapters exist, as far as I can tell. Let me find a good example, just a sec. | 00:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, I'm looking at an old version of webgui (7.2.0), but it's the only one I have readily accessible. Specifically, the help section on "Navigation Template" | 00:13 |
| +perlRunner | yes | 00:13 |
| PedersenMJ | Here's the description of the page: These variables are available in Navigation Templates: | 00:13 |
| PedersenMJ | I seem to recall seeing more than that in the later version I have on my laptop, but I don't have access to that version right now. | 00:14 |
| +perlRunner | what else should it say? | 00:14 |
| PedersenMJ | Anyway, if I *had* found this page on my own, getting to it before other pages, I'd write it off as useless. What are these variables? Why do I *care* what these variables are? What *is* a navigation template? Why do I care? When would I ever use it? | 00:15 |
| PedersenMJ | In conjunction with much more information, the page is incredibly useful. For instance, after working out the ideas of looping in a template, usage of variables in a template, etc, I *now* see incredible value in this page. | 00:18 |
| +perlRunner | but at first, it was just a listing of variables with no rationale | 00:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Exactly. | 00:18 |
| PedersenMJ | I think I see a potential idea here: What if the help pages had a "related topics" section on each page? Someplace that questions like the ones I posed could be listed, and answers linked to? | 00:19 |
| +perlRunner | there is a related topics section to each page, but not to that kind of information. | 00:20 |
| PedersenMJ | It's *hard* to get docs, I know that. Please, understand that I'm not attacking the docs as they are written, but hoping to find a way to help improve them. | 00:20 |
| +perlRunner | I know. I've seen you in here long enough to know that you always deserve the benefit of the doubt | 00:20 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, now I see it. It shows some links to closely related ideas, it just doesn't show me how those ideas fit together. | 00:21 |
| +perlRunner | right. | 00:21 |
| +perlRunner | the docs are brief by design, but perhaps a little too brief | 00:21 |
| +perlRunner | it sounds like a short introductory paragraph would help, especially with the template docs | 00:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Tell you what, I've got an idea that might help to show what I mean. Let me finish the current theme I'm converting, and then I'll take a crack at the navigation template (and related), and give you a patch next week sometime to check out? | 00:22 |
| +perlRunner | sure, but realize that the built-in docs are stored as code, not as prose | 00:22 |
| PedersenMJ | That's okay. I'll skip making it into a code patch then, and make a wgpkg. | 00:23 |
| +perlRunner | can't do packages either | 00:23 |
| +perlRunner | it could be a custom translation though | 00:23 |
| +perlRunner | here's a sample: | 00:23 |
| +perlRunner | https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/view/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Navigation.pm | 00:23 |
| PedersenMJ | To show what I mean, though? And to let you evaluate what I'm talking about? Whether or not it becomes code in future, this can provide an idea. | 00:23 |
| +perlRunner | sure | 00:23 |
| +perlRunner | I can codify it | 00:23 |
| +perlRunner | hacking text is my specialty | 00:24 |
| snapcount_ | txtHack0rz | 00:25 |
| +perlRunner | oh, go help vrby | 00:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, I see what you mean. Definitely not friendly to write, not when just trying to get ideas out :) | 00:26 |
| +perlRunner | PB.com is borken | 00:26 |
| snapcount_ | eh? | 00:26 |
| +perlRunner | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/template-editor-broken#i5lfYHiTczFgPyPsJQKWNA | 00:26 |
| snapcount_ | oh that | 00:26 |
| snapcount_ | ok I'll see what his major malfunction is | 00:26 |
| PedersenMJ | BTW, thanks for the benefit of the doubt. I try not to abuse needing it, but I know that I can be one of the worst at doing that. | 00:27 |
| +perlRunner | hardly | 00:27 |
| +perlRunner | you never complain | 00:27 |
| +perlRunner | you ask direct questions and wait for answers | 00:27 |
| +perlRunner | you help other people out | 00:27 |
| +perlRunner | and you donate content back to the community | 00:27 |
| +perlRunner | you've easily earned that status | 00:27 |
| PedersenMJ | I can also be abrasive and annoying. I try not to :) | 00:27 |
| +perlRunner | well, you're doing great so far | 00:28 |
| +perlRunner | off to the showers | 00:28 |
| -!- perlRunner is now known as afkDreamer | 00:28 | |
| PedersenMJ | Thanks. I'll finish this theme, and work on some help ideas, to see what you might think. | 00:29 |
| cap10morgan | Is there an easy way, via the API, to get a list of threads in a collaboration system? | 00:52 |
| snapcount_ | hold on cap10morgan I'll look | 00:53 |
| cap10morgan | thanks | 00:54 |
| snapcount_ | oh duh | 00:54 |
| snapcount_ | I'm an idiot | 00:54 |
| snapcount_ | threads are children of the CS | 00:55 |
| snapcount_ | so you can do something like | 00:55 |
| -!- afkDreamer is now known as perlDreamer | 00:55 | |
| snapcount_ | my $threads = $cs->getLineage([descendants],{returnObjects=>1}); | 00:55 |
| snapcount_ | where cs is the collab system object that is the parent of your threads | 00:56 |
| snapcount_ | $threads is an array ref of objects | 00:56 |
| snapcount_ | so you can loop through them | 00:56 |
| cap10morgan | sweet, thanks roy | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | time to write the template dumper | 00:57 |
| snapcount_ | you're welcome, let me know if you have any more questions | 00:57 |
| cap10morgan | will do :) | 00:57 |
| snapcount_ | perlDreamer: sweet | 00:58 |
| snapcount_ | what is this thing for again? | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm guessing we have lots of pending bugs due to JS and HTML/XML quoting issues | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | might as well dump the templates, do code analysis on them and then fix 'em proactively | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | and since the easiest way to import them is to use the upgrade script, I'll export them in that format as well. | 00:59 |
| snapcount_ | here you go | 01:00 |
| snapcount_ | a gift from me to you | 01:00 |
| snapcount_ | my $root = WebGUI::Asset->getRoot($session); | 01:00 |
| snapcount_ | my $assets = $root->getLineage([descendants],{returnObjects=>1}); | 01:00 |
| snapcount_ | foreach my $asset (@$assets) { | 01:00 |
| snapcount_ | next unless $asset->get("className") eq "WebGUI::Asset::Template"; | 01:00 |
| snapcount_ | 01:00 | |
| snapcount_ | # dump it | 01:00 |
| snapcount_ | } | 01:00 |
| snapcount_ | you probably just finished writing that exactly | 01:01 |
| snapcount_ | b/c it probably takes you about as long as me to do so | 01:01 |
| snapcount_ | but it was fun none the less | 01:01 |
| snapcount_ | actually | 01:02 |
| snapcount_ | I think you can pass a where clause to getLineage | 01:02 |
| snapcount_ | and limit the results to nothing but templates | 01:02 |
| snapcount_ | which would be a hell of a lot faster | 01:02 |
| snapcount_ | than what I posted... but I could be making that up in my head =D | 01:02 |
| snapcount_ | yep | 01:04 |
| snapcount_ | =head4 includeOnlyClasses | 01:04 |
| snapcount_ | An array reference containing a list of asset classes to include in the result. If this is specified then no other classes except these will be returned. The opposite of the excludeClasses rule. | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | nice | 01:04 |
| snapcount_ | preaction: if you host a perlbot and make it a webgui bot, can it pull pod from webgui | 01:08 |
| snapcount_ | it can already do so from the perl built-ins right? | 01:08 |
| @preaction | i'm not going to run a chrisbot | 01:08 |
| @preaction | perlbot codebase | 01:08 |
| perlbot | check out my insides: http://chrisangell.com/incoming/chrisbot/v3 | 01:08 |
| @preaction | but rather a perlbot | 01:08 |
| snapcount_ | uhh | 01:09 |
| snapcount_ | that was a bit disturbing | 01:09 |
| snapcount_ | "check out my insides" | 01:09 |
| @preaction | http://perlbot.org | 01:09 |
| @preaction | though maybe i don't want to use it, since it's using Net::IRC instead of PoCo::IRC | 01:09 |
| @preaction | but then again i think chrisbot is using custom sockets, which is probably worse | 01:10 |
| snapcount_ | so did you hear the news perlDreamer ? | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | what's new? | 01:11 |
| snapcount_ | at the end of the month, the whole staff will be doing nothing but bugfixes for like 3 days straight | 01:11 |
| snapcount_ | it's going to rule | 01:12 |
| +perlDreamer | hmmmm | 01:12 |
| +perlDreamer | who knows if I'll have a chip by then | 01:12 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe I can tag along and learn more | 01:12 |
| snapcount_ | absolutely | 01:12 |
| snapcount_ | we'll all be on channel | 01:12 |
| snapcount_ | the whole time | 01:12 |
| +perlDreamer | sweet! | 01:13 |
| snapcount_ | it will be a "community experience" | 01:13 |
| * snapcount_ cues the soft music | 01:13 | |
| snapcount_ | "you are feeling relaxed" | 01:13 |
| * diakopter prepares for a community experience | 01:14 | |
| snapcount_ | diakopter: do you have guitar hero II yet? | 01:14 |
| diakopter | no. is it ps2 or ps3 | 01:15 |
| snapcount_ | ps2 but I think ps3 can run older games also | 01:15 |
| snapcount_ | good songs... it's fun | 01:15 |
| * diakopter rocks out on an air guitar. | 01:15 | |
| diakopter | urrr... push-button guitar | 01:16 |
| snapcount_ | actually, I'm going to have some junk food and play some Sweet Child O' Mine | 01:16 |
| snapcount_ | weeeeee | 01:16 |
| -!- snapcount_ is now known as snap_hero | 01:16 | |
| diakopter | s/weeeeee/wiiiiii/ ? | 01:16 |
| cap10morgan | dumb perl question: how do you ask an object what it's class is? | 01:19 |
| diakopter | $className = ref ( $objectRef ); | 01:20 |
| cap10morgan | cool, thanks | 01:20 |
| * PedersenMJ ponders finding the call center I've been transferred to at HP, and releasing various chemical, biological, and nuclear agents into the ventilation system there. | 01:21 | |
| PedersenMJ | That, of course, would only be done after sealing off the doors and windows. | 01:24 |
| * diakopter prepares to leave the HP call center where he works | 01:26 | |
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| PedersenMJ | Good idea, diakopter. Have had nothing but runaround in dealing with them today. Worst part is the time I had to spell scsi for the person I spoke with. | 01:31 |
| +perlDreamer | It's probably an international call center | 01:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, I *know* it is. But for dealing with an HP server, having to spell "scsi" for the person taking the call isn't exactly a rousing bit of happiness. | 01:34 |
| cap10morgan | hmm, so i've got some sql reports that i'd like to move into a format that uses the api instead. i wrote a macro, but it would sure be nice if there was a way i could fill some template vars like the sql report does instead of just generating output to the page. is that easily doable? | 01:46 |
| cap10morgan | some kind of "api report" wobject, i guess :) | 01:46 |
| +perlDreamer | how would it work? | 01:47 |
| cap10morgan | it would return an array ref to some objects, and then you call up the params of that object (->get'able stuff) in the template | 01:47 |
| cap10morgan | that's what i'm imagining, i don't care if it works that or not, as long as there's some way to do this... :) | 01:47 |
| +perlDreamer | are the objects always of the same kind? | 01:48 |
| cap10morgan | in this case, yeah, they're WebGUI::Asset::Post::Thread's | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | so what you would really like is more template variables in the main view of the CS? | 01:49 |
| cap10morgan | not in the CS, this is for displaying a summary view of the CS, basically | 01:50 |
| cap10morgan | but outside it | 01:50 |
| cap10morgan | it's using sql reports now, but that breaks everytime the db schema changes, obviously | 01:51 |
| cap10morgan | i have a macro that calls getLineage on the CS wobject, which works too, but i have no flexibility on how it gets output in the template like i do w/ the sql report | 01:51 |
| +perlDreamer | macros can have templates | 01:51 |
| +perlDreamer | check out the a_account macro | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | lib/WebGUI/Macro/a_account.pm | 01:52 |
| cap10morgan | hmm, ok. intriguing | 01:56 |
| cap10morgan | ah ha! | 01:57 |
| cap10morgan | perfect! | 01:57 |
| cap10morgan | thanks! :) | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | you're welcome | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | more fun tonight | 02:32 |
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| +perlDreamer | play it, snap_hero! | 04:38 |
| +perlDreamer | ah ha ha ha ha ha ha | 04:47 |
| +perlDreamer | that will fill up the file system | 04:47 |
| +perlDreamer | just fyi | 04:49 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI ships with 191 templates | 04:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | that's just the published versions | 04:49 |
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| perlm | If someone started a survey, then logged out, is there any way for that person to continue the survey from where they left off? | 05:05 |
| +perlDreamer | when you log out, you lose your user session | 05:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm guessing not | 05:09 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be a good RFE though, to persist the user's survey progress in a cookie | 05:10 |
| perlm | why does it need to be client side? When the user comes back to the survey, WG sees they have already taken it. It would be just as easy to see if they had finished it, and if not prompt the next question. | 05:11 |
| +perlDreamer | because when you log out, it clears your user session | 05:11 |
| perlm | When you log back in though, it has to check the DB before displaying the survey to make sure you haven't already taken it. | 05:12 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 05:12 |
| +perlDreamer | I see, you're thinking of persisting it in the actual Survey table? | 05:13 |
| +perlDreamer | that could be done | 05:13 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen may have objections to that particular. maybe so, maybe not | 05:13 |
| +perlDreamer | in that case, write the RFE with the desired functinality and let the implementer choose the method | 05:13 |
| perlm | no, I thinking of checking the survey results table to see if submitted answers for the user = total answers for survey. If not, prompt for next answer. | 05:13 |
| perlm | shouldn't require any schema changes, only the survey wobject in how it validates survey completed counts. | 05:14 |
| +perlDreamer | yes. | 05:14 |
| perlm | if I could log into work, I'd try to do it tonight and submit the change. | 05:15 |
| perlm | I guess I could update my local install to the latest and try to do it here. | 05:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Do you mean to SVN or as an RFE? | 05:15 |
| perlm | err, I don't know how I would submit completed code for upgrades/modifications. | 05:16 |
| +perlDreamer | All changes go through the RFE process, so... | 05:16 |
| perlm | in a nice email to JT with description, reason, and prettified code. | 05:16 |
| +perlDreamer | 1) submit the RFE, and attach the patch | 05:16 |
| @preaction | make a patch, and attach it to the RFE | 05:16 |
| perlm | kewl | 05:16 |
| @preaction | if you attach it, the community can look at it | 05:16 |
| @preaction | it's not just JT anymore | 05:16 |
| @preaction | roy being the major player | 05:16 |
| perlm | I like the sound of "community" | 05:17 |
| @preaction | me being a backup player, and once WebGUI.org spins off into its own entity, we'd like to see lot more community leaders | 05:17 |
| +perlDreamer | snap_hero: for reference, here's how to scan the templates for tmpl_var's inside of javascript | 05:17 |
| @preaction | (who don't have the benefit of plainblack employment) | 05:17 |
| +perlDreamer | grep -l 'script\>' *.tmpl | xargs perl -ne 'print "$ARGV:$_" if /<script/ .. m#/script#;' | grep tmpl_var | perl -lan -F':' -e 'print $F[0];' | sort | uniq > scriptedTemplates | 05:17 |
| @preaction | good lord, shell-scripting machine | 05:17 |
| +perlDreamer | it took me a while to write | 05:18 |
| @preaction | i can mysqldump | sed | mysql | 05:18 |
| @preaction | lol | 05:18 |
| +perlDreamer | sed? | 05:18 |
| +perlDreamer | SED? | 05:18 |
| +perlDreamer | what kind of perl hacker are you? | 05:18 |
| perlm | Does a WRE instance use more ram than a source instance of WG? | 05:24 |
| +perlDreamer | it depends on the number of children | 05:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and probably several other factors | 05:25 |
| +perlDreamer | like the config files for Apache and MySQL | 05:25 |
| perlm | hmm | 05:25 |
| perlm | weird. I just recalled a dream I had a long time ago about monsters chasing me and the only way to stop them was by unpacking an archive, but I couldn't because a corrupted version existed and was owned by root, and I couldn't overwrite. | 05:32 |
| perlm | This is either going to be easy or hard. The problem is how to allow users to skip questions. Without a paradigm change, the users will not be able to skip questions with my edit to getResponseCount which would only return completed surveys. | 05:51 |
| perlm | Maybe I should add a new survey Wobject called don't-skip-crap-survey. | 05:52 |
| perlm | As it is, users can't skip questions anyway. | 05:56 |
| perlm | I just tried clicking Next on an unanswered qestion and it brought me back to that question. So altering getResponseCount shouldn't break anythig. | 05:56 |
| perlm | You can skip anything that requires free text input. | 05:57 |
| perlm | But I'm not sure if that is a bug or a feature. | 05:57 |
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| +perlDreamer | howdy everyone | 06:13 |
| wgGuest41 | it's roy and his other personality | 06:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | snapcount is schizo | 06:15 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool! What a way to come back to the chan :) | 06:15 |
| +perlDreamer | the template dumper is done | 06:16 |
| +perlDreamer | wgGuest41: check the logs for the shell script I wrote | 06:16 |
| +perlDreamer | better yet, here: | 06:16 |
| +perlDreamer | grep -l 'script\>' *.tmpl | xargs perl -ne 'print "$ARGV:$_" if /<script/ .. m#/script#;' | grep tmpl_var | perl -lan -F':' -e 'print $F[0];' | sort | uniq > scriptedTemplates | 06:16 |
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| snap_hero | how do you hide the url of a link when someone hovers on it so it's replaced with text | 06:28 |
| +perlDreamer | set the title tag of the href? | 06:28 |
| snap_hero | I thought that's what I did | 06:28 |
| snap_hero | let me look and see if I screwed it up | 06:28 |
| snap_hero | <a onclick="window.open('/demo1169266463_486/uploads/jK/89/jK89pO_4ACnO7OSJO3Ldug/chat.html','WebGUI Community Chat','height:640 width:400'); return false;" href="#" title='WebGUI Community Chat'>Click here to Chat</a> | 06:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Quick ?: Can I nest <tmp_if> tags? | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | 4 seconds | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | not bad | 06:29 |
| PedersenMJ | 4 seconds? | 06:30 |
| +perlDreamer | you said "Quick" | 06:30 |
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| PedersenMJ | Very true. Didn't catch that :) | 06:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | uh, Houston, we have a problem | 06:35 |
| +perlDreamer | I've only seen this on one template so far, but is has all the template metadata in it. | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | #assetId=ZipArchiveTMPL00000001 | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | #title=Default Zip Archive Template | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | #namespace=ZipArchiveAsset | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | <tmpl_if session.var.adminOn> | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | <tmpl_if controls> | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | <p><tmpl_var controls></p> | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | </tmpl_if> | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | </tmpl_if> | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | just one template | 06:39 |
| +perlDreamer | this template dumper is handy! | 06:39 |
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| PedersenMJ | For alternate page layouts (in particular, ones involving multiple columns) is there a standard name for the div for the second/third/etc columns? | 06:50 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think so | 06:51 |
| PedersenMJ | In fact, for the first column, as well. For instance, the template I'm converting has a div id of "main" and a secondary of "sidebar". | 06:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Too bad. Ah well, can't be perfect, then. | 06:53 |
| preaction_ | PedersenMJ: though I wouldn't be opposed to starting to standardize some of the core template IDs and classes, and the semantics as well, so that we can have drop-in stylesheets | 07:32 |
| -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction | 07:32 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ | 07:32 | |
| PedersenMJ | Nor would I, though I'm not ready to submit that for an RFE yet. | 07:33 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: you still awake? did you get that DateTime crap to work? i thought i saw something along that line in here last night before i went to bed | 07:33 |
| PedersenMJ | No excuse for it, I'm just not :) | 07:33 |
| @preaction | i mean, webgui is about to go a long way in our Perl coding practices and javascript coding practices, i'd like to see some hedway in our html/css coding practices | 07:34 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, it's checked in and working | 07:39 |
| @preaction | ok, thanks | 07:39 |
| +perlDreamer | it turns out that DateTime has two ways of duplicating objects | 07:39 |
| +perlDreamer | clone | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | and add_duration does its own as well | 07:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, now I'm getting frustrated with these variables. If this is my URL ( http://localhost/getting_started ) What page.is* condition can I use in a tmpl_loop to single it out for special treatment (in fact, anything can be in place of getting_started, such as tell_a_friend, sitemap, etc). | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | via a subroutine called form_object | 07:40 |
| PedersenMJ | I've tried page.isDepth1 page.isDepth2 and page.isTopOfBranch | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | so I subclassed it and it started working | 07:40 |
| @preaction | sweet | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I added an explicit addition test to DateTime.t so we can monitor it | 07:40 |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ, how do you want it singled out? | 07:41 |
| +perlDreamer | by name | 07:41 |
| +perlDreamer | by location? | 07:41 |
| @preaction | and why doesn't plainblack hire you again? | 07:41 |
| @preaction | can't afford you? | 07:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm overpriced :) | 07:41 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, I want to ignore it. | 07:41 |
| +perlDreamer | ignore it? | 07:41 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep. I want the tmpl_loop to skip right over it. | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | what I mean is, how do you want to tell that this is the right page to ignore? | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | by name? | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | by URL? | 07:42 |
| PedersenMJ | Anything which is hanging off of root. | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | anything hanging off root is depth 1 | 07:42 |
| PedersenMJ | page.isDepth1 | 07:42 |
| PedersenMJ | Somehow, I did something wrong with it, then. | 07:43 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I'm also a rank amateur | 07:43 |
| +perlDreamer | i design chips | 07:43 |
| @preaction | anything hanging off of the first level of your requested navigation configuration is depth 1 | 07:43 |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ: how about pasting a piece of your template for us to peek at? | 07:43 |
| @preaction | ahh, which is interesting because that API you made was quite nice | 07:43 |
| PedersenMJ | perlbot help | 07:44 |
| perlbot | (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip) | 07:44 |
| @preaction | perlbot nopaste | 07:44 |
| PedersenMJ | perlbot tell me about pastebin | 07:44 |
| perlbot | Paste your code at http://sial.org/pbot/perl and #perl will be able to view it | 07:44 |
| @preaction | which reminds me, i'll do that now | 07:44 |
| +perlDreamer | cool | 07:44 |
| +perlDreamer | It works, but robustness may be a separate issue altogether. | 07:44 |
| PedersenMJ | http://sial.org/pbot/22524 | 07:46 |
| PedersenMJ | This is a second navigation menu that I'm building. I don't want it to show the root *or* any pages hanging off of root. | 07:46 |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ: try changing isTopOfBranch to depthIs1 | 07:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, that didn't cover it, unfortunately. | 07:51 |
| +perlDreamer | hmmm | 07:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Also just tried depthIs2 | 07:52 |
| +perlDreamer | what's the URL to your site? | 07:53 |
| +perlDreamer | can you please show me the nav with isTopOfBranch? | 07:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Not quickly. Will take me a few minutes. It's on localhost. | 07:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Must make package, and set it up on demo.pb | 07:54 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, I'll be around a little while longer | 07:54 |
| PedersenMJ | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1169272591_0/ | 07:58 |
| PedersenMJ | Once there, click on any of the links in the top menu, and the lower menu will appear. | 07:59 |
| PedersenMJ | login/password: Admin/123qwe | 07:59 |
| PedersenMJ | The particular asset that is the problem: root>Andreas02>andreas02_sibmenu | 08:00 |
| +perlDreamer | according to you nav, it shouldn't even have ancestors | 08:01 |
| +perlDreamer | oh | 08:01 |
| +perlDreamer | but you asked for self and siblings | 08:01 |
| +perlDreamer | which is the same thing as shown in the top nav | 08:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Exactly. And that looks very unclean to me, which is why I'm trying to hide them. | 08:02 |
| +perlDreamer | off by 1 problem | 08:02 |
| +perlDreamer | root is dept 1 | 08:03 |
| +perlDreamer | home is depth 2 | 08:03 |
| +perlDreamer | everything under home is depth 3 | 08:03 |
| PedersenMJ | And these are depth 3. | 08:03 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 08:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Dang it. Ah well, now it can be fixed. Shoulda tried that depth 3. | 08:03 |
| +perlDreamer | well, it is very site layout dependent | 08:03 |
| +perlDreamer | gotta run and take care of some soup | 08:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll be back on Monday | 08:04 |
| +perlDreamer | good luck, dude | 08:04 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""""] | 08:04 | |
| PedersenMJ | Thanks. By Monday, I should have this posted. | 08:04 |
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| @preaction | HA! it works! | 08:05 |
| @preaction | webgooey say hi | 08:05 |
| @preaction | ... okay, it works... | 08:05 |
| @preaction | `help | 08:05 |
| @preaction | ~help | 08:05 |
| * PedersenMJ pokes webgooey | 08:05 | |
| @preaction | god damnit | 08:06 |
| @preaction | `? | 08:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, it's damned. | 08:06 |
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| @preaction | this is about as intuitive as the black slab from 2001 | 08:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Funny, that's what I think about any efforts I make to fix windows machines :) | 08:10 |
| @preaction | oh dur... the username isn't registered so it can't recieve PMs | 08:10 |
| @preaction | #help | 08:10 |
| @preaction | or send PMs | 08:10 |
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| PedersenMJ | Sweet! That theme is now actually done. I just have to write up the necessary docs for it. | 08:31 |
| PedersenMJ | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1169272591_0/ | 08:35 |
| PedersenMJ | Anybody that wishes can view the new template there. I'll write the docs tomorrow night, and post the new template on the contributions page after that. | 08:36 |
| @preaction | so i've spent 40 minutes trying to configure eggdrop, when i finally remember what the bot is called that I really want | 08:42 |
| @preaction | http://infobot.org | 08:42 |
| PedersenMJ | Ugh. 40 minutes to configure an irc bot sounds worse than painful. | 08:43 |
| @preaction | yeah... perlbot was worse | 08:44 |
| @preaction | i don't even want to know what chris has done to chrisbot | 08:44 |
| -!- preaction is now known as webgooey | 08:50 | |
| -!- webgooey is now known as gooeybot | 08:50 | |
| -!- gooeybot is now known as preaction | 08:50 | |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, that should make perlDreamer a bit happier. I've just submitted the RFE to use standard names in Page Layout Templates. | 08:51 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/standardize-layout-names-for-templates#FyLBXhE9hE-ZJfw_zyk4CQ | 08:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Wow... I put a whole 20 karma into that RFE, and that bumped it from page 11 to page 7. | 08:58 |
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| @preaction | hello? | 08:59 |
| PedersenMJ | hello? | 08:59 |
| @preaction | hello is Hi $user | 08:59 |
| @preaction | hello? | 08:59 |
| gooeybot | hello is Hi $user | 08:59 |
| @preaction | interesting | 08:59 |
| * PedersenMJ ponders teaching it some not so nice things... Wonder if it would work :) | 09:00 | |
| @preaction | of course it would | 09:01 |
| @preaction | hello is <reply>Hi, $who | 09:01 |
| @preaction | hello? | 09:01 |
| gooeybot | hello is Hi $user | 09:01 |
| PedersenMJ | heh. Could it to say nasty things to iPhoneGuy every time he says something. | 09:02 |
| @preaction | no | 09:02 |
| @preaction | gooeybot, forget hello | 09:02 |
| gooeybot | preaction: I forgot hello | 09:02 |
| @preaction | gooeybot: hello is <reply>Hi, $who | 09:02 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 09:02 |
| @preaction | hello? | 09:02 |
| gooeybot | Hi, preaction | 09:02 |
| PedersenMJ | No, not going to. That would be just wrong. | 09:02 |
| @preaction | google for webgui | 09:03 |
| @preaction | gooeybot: google for webgui | 09:03 |
| @preaction | damnit | 09:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, I've got to run. It's 2am here, and I've got more moving to do tomorrow. | 09:03 |
| PedersenMJ | anyway, g'night. Will chat later! | 09:04 |
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| @preaction | google for webgui | 09:06 |
| @preaction | damnit, and google's stopped their SOAP API | 09:06 |
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| @preaction | stupid damned freenode making me edit the infobot source | 09:16 |
| @preaction | gooeybot tell preaction about hello | 09:16 |
| gooeybot | hello, preaction | 09:16 |
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| -!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui | 09:24 | |
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| @preaction | gooeybot love | 09:26 |
| gooeybot | preaction: excuse me? | 09:26 |
| @preaction | love? | 09:26 |
| @preaction | gooeybot i love you is <reply>I don't swing that way, $who | 09:26 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 09:26 |
| @preaction | i love you? | 09:26 |
| @preaction | gooeybot i love you | 09:27 |
| gooeybot | preaction: i'm not following you... | 09:27 |
| @preaction | sunnuvawhat? | 09:27 |
| @preaction | i love you | 09:27 |
| @preaction | gooeybot: i love you | 09:28 |
| gooeybot | preaction: what? | 09:28 |
| @preaction | gooeybot: WebGUI is A CMS and Application Framework written in Perl | 09:28 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 09:28 |
| @preaction | gooeybot: WebGUI is also http://webgui.org | 09:29 |
| gooeybot | okay, preaction. | 09:29 |
| @preaction | webgui? | 09:29 |
| gooeybot | webgui is A CMS and Application Framework written in Perl or http://webgui.org | 09:29 |
| @preaction | i love you? | 09:29 |
| @preaction | damnit | 09:29 |
| @preaction | gooeybot botsnack? | 09:29 |
| gooeybot | thanks preaction :) | 09:29 |
| @preaction | now to give it some attitude | 09:31 |
| @preaction | doesn't work is <reply>Look $who, doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Be specific! Examples of what doesn't work (or the URL) tend to help too. | 09:32 |
| @preaction | tell preaction about doesn't work | 09:33 |
| gooeybot | Look preaction, doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Be specific! Examples of what doesn't work (or the URL) tend to help too. | 09:33 |
| @preaction | tell gooeybot about doesn't work | 09:33 |
| gooeybot | Isn't that a bit silly, preaction? | 09:33 |
| @preaction | tell perlbot about doesn't work | 09:33 |
| @preaction | forget doesn't work | 09:33 |
| gooeybot | preaction: I forgot doesn't work | 09:33 |
| @preaction | doesn't work is <reply>Look buddy, doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Be specific! Examples of what doesn't work (or the URL) tend to help too. | 09:34 |
| @preaction | wiki is http://wiki.webgui.org | 09:34 |
| @preaction | wiki is also yet another place to get help with WebGUI | 09:34 |
| gooeybot | okay, preaction. | 09:34 |
| @preaction | wiki | 09:34 |
| @preaction | wiki? | 09:34 |
| gooeybot | rumour has it wiki is http://wiki.webgui.org or yet another place to get help with WebGUI | 09:34 |
| @preaction | wcc is WebGUI Community Contest | 09:36 |
| @preaction | wcc is also http://plainblack.com/wcc | 09:36 |
| gooeybot | okay, preaction. | 09:36 |
| @preaction | wcc | 09:36 |
| @preaction | wcc? | 09:36 |
| gooeybot | hmmm... wcc is WebGUI Community Contest or http://plainblack.com/wcc | 09:36 |
| @preaction | gooeybot: wcc | 09:36 |
| gooeybot | i guess wcc is WebGUI Community Contest or http://plainblack.com/wcc | 09:36 |
| @preaction | gooeybot: wcc? | 09:37 |
| gooeybot | hmmm... wcc is WebGUI Community Contest or http://plainblack.com/wcc | 09:37 |
| @preaction | oh, i see, the <reply> gets rid of that stupid crap | 09:37 |
| @preaction | gooeybot: join #modus | 09:38 |
| gooeybot | preaction: excuse me? | 09:38 |
| @preaction | gooeybot, yow | 09:44 |
| gooeybot | YOW!! I'm in a very clever and adorable INSANE ASYLUM!! | 09:44 |
| @preaction | perlbot shorten http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/webgui-community-contests-return | 09:56 |
| perlbot | Shortened URL: http://xrl.us/ub9o | 09:56 |
| -!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable: 7.2.3 | beta: 7.3.5) WRE (0.7.2) :: Stop Chatting and Earn Cash, Prizes, and Fame! http://xrl.us/ub9o :: Don't Tread on the Topic | 09:56 | |
| -!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable: 7.2.3 | beta: 7.3.5) -- WRE (0.7.2) -- http://webgui.org :: Stop Chatting and Earn Cash, Prizes, and Fame! http://xrl.us/ub9o :: Don't Tread on the Topic | 09:58 | |
| -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has left #webgui [] | 13:15 | |
| pjesi | what is the key difference of Asset.pm and Wobject.pm | 15:00 |
| pjesi | I am going to make a new content type | 15:00 |
| pjesi | dont know what to extend | 15:00 |
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| @khenn | morning | 16:37 |
| @khenn | anyone around today? | 16:37 |
| pjesi | I am | 16:39 |
| @khenn | you wouldn't by chance know of any issues (other than never being able to view the page in the asset manager) with having 100,000+ children in the asset manager would you? | 16:54 |
| @khenn | well, any issues with an asset having 100,000+ children | 16:55 |
| pjesi | not there yet no :) | 16:56 |
| pjesi | me client wants to be able to select a content in a folder to be "featured" and also to pick six of them to be displayed in a list, I figured the best way would be to create a new Asset that extends Folder, what do you think? | 17:01 |
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| pjesi | can I commit patches? | 18:15 |
| perlm | I have a question about surveys. Any question type that doesn't require a typed response, will not let you submit an unanswered question. But a question that requires a typed response, will allow you to submit a blank response. Are survey takers supposed to be allowed to skip questions? | 18:34 |
| @khenn | I honestly am not sure | 19:05 |
| @khenn | I haven't done much with that asset and I didn't write it | 19:05 |
| @khenn | has anyone used WebGUI's approval system? | 19:05 |
| @khenn | anyone find it odd that the status reported about tags pending approval is 'error' | 19:06 |
| perlm | I find that odd. | 19:17 |
| -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui | 19:20 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ | 19:20 | |
| @khenn | me too | 19:28 |
| @khenn | anyone know what the cachetimeout on files does? | 19:28 |
| -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui | 19:30 | |
| Hinrik | what could be wrong if starting apache with webgui enabled takes a really long time? | 19:31 |
| Hinrik | takes one second when I comment out all the webgui stuff in my apache configuration | 19:31 |
| +MrHairgrease | it can take pretty long sometimes | 19:31 |
| Hinrik | it sometimes takes 7 minutes here | 19:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 19:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | well it shouldn't take that long | 19:32 |
| Hinrik | :) | 19:32 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 19:32 | |
| * PedersenMJ waves. | 19:32 | |
| pjesi | hi | 19:32 |
| gooeybot | hey, pjesi | 19:32 |
| * Hinrik requests help | 19:32 | |
| +MrHairgrease | the longest startup time that 've was prolly 15 secs or so | 19:33 |
| PedersenMJ | Only on for a few minutes, as I'm going to be heading over to my old place to continue moving out. | 19:33 |
| PedersenMJ | Hinrik: Whatcha need? | 19:33 |
| Hinrik | PedersenMJ: starting apache with webgui enabled can take up to 7 minutes | 19:33 |
| pjesi | anything in the logs? | 19:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Ouch. That one will take me longer to resolve than I have time for right now (maybe 5 minutes or so). Have you tried starting it manually, and turning on debugging? | 19:34 |
| Hinrik | just this: | 19:34 |
| Hinrik | [Sat Jan 20 17:30:08 2007] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: /usr/sbin/suexec2) | 19:34 |
| Hinrik | [Sat Jan 20 17:30:11 2007] [notice] Digest: generating secret for digest authentication ... | 19:34 |
| PedersenMJ | BTW, all: next theme I'm uploading is visible at: http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1169272591_0/ | 19:35 |
| Hinrik | PedersenMJ: how do I turn on debugging? | 19:35 |
| PedersenMJ | Will be doing docs, and then uploading, later tonight (within the next 14 hours). | 19:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | hinrik: are you using the wre? | 19:35 |
| Hinrik | no | 19:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | maybe the digest secret key thingy i taking reaaly long | 19:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | Ive never seen this behaviour before | 19:36 |
| PedersenMJ | apache2 -X | 19:36 |
| Hinrik | well, it doesn't always take this long, it's pretty random | 19:36 |
| PedersenMJ | or, on fedora, it's likely httpd -X | 19:36 |
| pjesi | it happened after enabling webdav correct? | 19:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's just single server mode | 19:36 |
| Hinrik | pjesi: no | 19:36 |
| PedersenMJ | No, it's "Run apache2 in debug mode. Only one worker will be started and the server will not detach from the console" | 19:37 |
| Hinrik | I'll try that | 19:37 |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrCookingGrease | 19:41 | |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 19:48 | |
| perlm | I wonder how my url.conf file got transformmed into a JSON formatted file. | 20:47 |
| -!- perlm [n=chatzill@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/0000000000]"] | 21:32 | |
| pjesi | 2007/01/20 18:33:35 - FATAL - WebGUI.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::fatal[207] - Couldn't | 21:58 |
| pjesi | execute prepared statement: SELECT u.userId AS userId, a1.fieldData AS ldapConnection FROM users | 21:58 |
| pjesi | AS u INNER JOIN authentication AS a1 ON u.userId = a1.userId WHERE a1.fieldName = 'ldapConnection | 21:58 |
| pjesi | ' AND u.authMethod = 'LDAP' ORDER BY ldapConnection, userId LIMIT ?,18446744073709551615 : With p | 21:58 |
| pjesi | lace holders: 0. Root cause: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresp | 21:58 |
| pjesi | onds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near ''0',18446744073709551615' at | 21:58 |
| pjesi | line 1 | 21:58 |
| Hinrik | http://sial.org/pbot/ :P | 21:58 |
| pjesi | I thought it was two lines sorry | 21:59 |
| Hinrik | hehe | 21:59 |
| pjesi | the limit is clearly not proper SQL syntax | 22:00 |
| -!- diakopter [i=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 22:16 | |
| -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui | 22:59 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ | 22:59 | |
| @preaction | pjesi: i believe that's a known bug, what version are you using? | 22:59 |
| Hinrik | he's using 7.3.5 | 23:00 |
| Hinrik | how did you know what he said? | 23:01 |
| @preaction | hello? | 23:01 |
| gooeybot | Hi, preaction | 23:01 |
| Hinrik | hm? | 23:01 |
| @preaction | gooeybot is a terminal on my compydore | 23:01 |
| Hinrik | I see | 23:01 |
| Hinrik | preaction: would you happen to know anything about mod_perl making apache take ages to start/stop? | 23:02 |
| @preaction | for some reason DBI is quoting that 0, so wherever that is, we can't use a placeholder for the limit clause | 23:02 |
| @preaction | just modperl? or mod_perl + webgui? | 23:03 |
| Hinrik | just mod_perl | 23:03 |
| Hinrik | I tried to start it without any webgui stuff enabled and it's still slow | 23:04 |
| Hinrik | takes 1 second to start if I disable mod_perl altogether | 23:04 |
| @preaction | how fast is the system? how much resources is it taking up (use top), and how slow is slow? | 23:04 |
| Hinrik | 2x 2.6GHz P4 cpus | 23:06 |
| Hinrik | er, 1x, I mean | 23:06 |
| Hinrik | and slow would be up to 7 minutes sometimes | 23:06 |
| @preaction | Ram? | 23:07 |
| @preaction | hard disk? | 23:07 |
| @preaction | are you using a network share? | 23:07 |
| Hinrik | no shares, plenty of HD space and RAM | 23:07 |
| Hinrik | it isn't always this slow, just most of the time | 23:07 |
| Hinrik | and only with mod_perl | 23:07 |
| Hinrik | I've never used it before so I'm not that familiar with it | 23:08 |
| @preaction | how big is your site? | 23:08 |
| @preaction | and what do you mean by "plenty"? we're talking a 1 gig minimum for WebGUI | 23:09 |
| Hinrik | it doesn't have anything to do with that. If I have an empty DocumentRoot and no webgui or anything enabled, it still takes a few minutes to start apache with mod_perl | 23:09 |
| @preaction | the WRE apache's mod_perl? | 23:09 |
| Hinrik | no | 23:09 |
| @preaction | this might be a question for #apache | 23:09 |
| Hinrik | perhaps :) | 23:09 |
| @preaction | or i believe there's a way to get apache to run interactively in the terminal, so you can see where the holdup is | 23:14 |
| @preaction | let me man apachectl to see | 23:14 |
| Hinrik | I tried that | 23:14 |
| @preaction | with debug output? | 23:14 |
| Hinrik | looks just the same | 23:14 |
| Hinrik | there are no errors | 23:14 |
| Hinrik | it's just slow | 23:14 |
| @preaction | what part is slow? | 23:14 |
| Hinrik | what do you mean "part" ? | 23:15 |
| @preaction | did you run: apachectl -X -kstart ? | 23:16 |
| Hinrik | nothing happens for a few minutes, then the "Starting webgui 7.3.5" is printed and it finishes | 23:16 |
| @preaction | the -X should show a whole slew of information, like "Loading module", and "Loading config file" etc... | 23:16 |
| Hinrik | Hm | 23:17 |
| Hinrik | Doesn't do that here | 23:17 |
| @preaction | oh | 23:17 |
| @preaction | apachectl -e debug -X -k start | 23:17 |
| Hinrik | ah | 23:17 |
| Hinrik | that's better | 23:18 |
| Hinrik | [Sat Jan 20 21:17:37 2007] [debug] mod_so.c(248): loaded module apreq_module | 23:20 |
| Hinrik | after this, I have to wait a few minutes, then I get: | 23:21 |
| Hinrik | Starting WebGUI 7.3.5 | 23:21 |
| Hinrik | Loading WebGUI.conf | 23:21 |
| Hinrik | WebGUI Started! | 23:21 |
| Hinrik | twice | 23:21 |
| Hinrik | hm, gonna try without webgui, wait | 23:22 |
| @preaction | so it's WebGUI | 23:24 |
| @preaction | 3 minutes is a tad excessive | 23:24 |
| Hinrik | it's not webgui | 23:25 |
| Hinrik | now I have webgui disabled, it just printed "loaded module perl_module", and I'm still waiting | 23:26 |
| Hinrik | still waiting.. | 23:27 |
| @preaction | is your site up? try it | 23:28 |
| @preaction | it's running interactively, so after "loaded module perl_module", it's done | 23:28 |
| Hinrik | it doesn't answer | 23:28 |
| Hinrik | just "Waiting for [sitename]..." | 23:29 |
| @preaction | only a couple vhosts, i imagine? | 23:29 |
| Hinrik | only one | 23:29 |
| @preaction | i'd take this to #apache, they're the experts, and you've just hit my wall of info | 23:29 |
| Hinrik | ok | 23:29 |
| Hinrik | thanks | 23:29 |
| @preaction | what's the load average on your box? try top | 23:32 |
| Hinrik | no load | 23:33 |
| @preaction | Hinrik: also, how was mod-perl compiled? did you get it from your distro? and/or compiled against your apache? | 23:33 |
| @preaction | (these are things that #apache are telling me to ask) | 23:33 |
| Hinrik | from the distro | 23:33 |
| Hinrik | the distro being Gentoo | 23:34 |
| @preaction | you might want to check the gentoo forums for this, could be a compilation problem | 23:35 |
| --- Day changed Sun Jan 21 2007 | ||
| -!- khenn [n=fdillon@c-71-57-54-205.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 00:55 | |
| -!- MrCookingGrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] | 01:05 | |
| @preaction | damnit, i can't WORK with an IRC client open.. i need to constantly check it | 01:09 |
| -!- specsmu [n=rmiller@adsl-69-232-61-48.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #webgui | 02:58 | |
| specsmu | hello | 02:58 |
| gooeybot | hi, specsmu | 02:58 |
| specsmu | what are your hourly rates? | 02:58 |
| specsmu | I have an older webgui install that has broken for no apparent reason and I need to get it back running | 02:58 |
| Radix__ | what's the logs say? | 03:15 |
| specsmu | a sec | 03:25 |
| specsmu | 2007/01/20 20:04:54 - WARN - lemarsct.com.conf - WebGUI::tryAssetMethod[229] - Couldn't call method view on asset for url: Root cause: Can't call method "definition" on unblessed reference at /home/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm line 386 | 03:26 |
| specsmu | putting in undefs to completely disable using shortcuts seems to have temporarily fixed the problems | 03:26 |
| specsmu | I think a template or an asset got corrupted | 03:26 |
| @preaction | specsmu: this is a community help channel for WebGUI, this is not (however much it seems it is) a Plain Black only channel ;) | 06:34 |
| @preaction | specsmu: what version? | 06:34 |
| @preaction | also, I hate Frank | 06:35 |
| @preaction | he couldn't design a decent API if his life depended on it... 3 hours fixing some weird convoluted shit and I'm still forced to use his magical crap | 06:36 |
| @preaction | damnit, gooeybot is logging this... | 06:36 |
| @preaction | specsmu: it looks like something is trying to call ->definition on a hashref or arrayref or something, when it should be trying to do "WebGUI::Asset::*->definition" | 06:38 |
| -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 06:55 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 06:55 | |
| @preaction | roy! buddy! pal! | 06:56 |
| @snapcount | no hable englis | 06:56 |
| @preaction | yo quero taco bell? | 06:56 |
| @snapcount | mmmm chicken | 06:56 |
| @snapcount | I see a gooeybot in our midst | 06:56 |
| @snapcount | gooeybot who is thou daddy | 06:59 |
| gooeybot | no idea, snapcount | 06:59 |
| @snapcount | that's depressing | 06:59 |
| @snapcount | gooeybot code | 06:59 |
| gooeybot | snapcount: huh? | 06:59 |
| @snapcount | I like him | 06:59 |
| @preaction | :p | 06:59 |
| @snapcount | gooeybot fetch | 06:59 |
| gooeybot | snapcount: excuse me? | 06:59 |
| @preaction | wiki? | 06:59 |
| gooeybot | i guess wiki is http://wiki.webgui.org or yet another place to get help with WebGUI | 06:59 |
| @preaction | wcc? | 07:00 |
| gooeybot | i think wcc is WebGUI Community Contest or http://plainblack.com/wcc | 07:00 |
| @snapcount | 42? | 07:00 |
| @preaction | that, i think, is about as far as I've gotten | 07:00 |
| @snapcount | he doesn't know what 42 is?! | 07:00 |
| @snapcount | this is unacceptable | 07:00 |
| @preaction | i've got ideas for writing some plugins for it, but i might just scrap the infobot and make something better | 07:00 |
| @preaction | like buubot, or a bot based on chrisbot | 07:00 |
| @snapcount | so did you want something preaction? you seemed a little over friendly earlier | 07:01 |
| @preaction | but i'm too busy being angry at frank's lack of ability to create a coherent API | 07:01 |
| @snapcount | like the 3 year old caught taking cookies before bed time | 07:01 |
| @preaction | not really, no | 07:01 |
| @snapcount | that makes me happy | 07:01 |
| @snapcount | I see new peeps | 07:01 |
| @preaction | just approaching that type of livid where everyone who will listen to my bitching is a friend | 07:01 |
| @preaction | indeed | 07:02 |
| @snapcount | this also makes me happy | 07:02 |
| @snapcount | well, our irc client will be on plainblack as soon as Steve makes me a coolio icon to launch it | 07:02 |
| @preaction | word | 07:02 |
| @snapcount | you should teach your bot all the crap in the topic | 07:03 |
| @snapcount | so the topic can reflect current conversation | 07:03 |
| @snapcount | and when people ask that stuff, have the bot answer | 07:03 |
| @preaction | we should put an article above the forums detailing that people should check the Community Wiki (and soon the IRC channel) in addition to the forums | 07:03 |
| @snapcount | which forum? | 07:03 |
| @preaction | version is Current stable is 7.2.3. Current beta is 7.3.5. Current WRE is 0.7.2. | 07:04 |
| @preaction | version? | 07:04 |
| gooeybot | i heard version was Current stable is 7.2.3. Current beta is 7.3.5. Current WRE is 0.7.2. | 07:04 |
| @preaction | gooeybot: version | 07:04 |
| gooeybot | it has been said that version is Current stable is 7.2.3. Current beta is 7.3.5. Current WRE is 0.7.2. | 07:04 |
| @snapcount | so he learns based on every statement? | 07:04 |
| @preaction | yes | 07:04 |
| @snapcount | what if there is conflict | 07:04 |
| @snapcount | roses are red. | 07:04 |
| @snapcount | roses? | 07:04 |
| gooeybot | roses are red | 07:04 |
| @snapcount | roses are green. | 07:04 |
| @snapcount | roses? | 07:04 |
| gooeybot | roses are red | 07:04 |
| @preaction | what if there? | 07:04 |
| @preaction | it's apparently pretty smart | 07:05 |
| @preaction | gooeybot: forget roses | 07:05 |
| gooeybot | preaction: I forgot roses | 07:05 |
| @preaction | roses are green | 07:05 |
| @preaction | roses? | 07:05 |
| gooeybot | roses are green | 07:05 |
| @preaction | gooeybot forget roses | 07:05 |
| gooeybot | preaction: I forgot roses | 07:05 |
| @snapcount | intesting | 07:05 |
| @preaction | gooeybot roses are red | 07:05 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 07:05 |
| @snapcount | seems like he will learn a lot of stuff that is useless | 07:05 |
| @preaction | gooeybot roses are also sometimes white | 07:05 |
| gooeybot | okay, preaction. | 07:05 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 07:05 |
| @preaction | gooeybot roses | 07:06 |
| gooeybot | roses are red or sometimes white | 07:06 |
| @preaction | gooeybot roses is also |<reply>quit bothering me | 07:06 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 07:06 |
| @preaction | roses? | 07:06 |
| gooeybot | quit bothering me | 07:06 |
| @preaction | roses? | 07:06 |
| gooeybot | quit bothering me | 07:06 |
| @snapcount | 42 is the meaning to life, the universe and everything. | 07:06 |
| @snapcount | 42? | 07:06 |
| gooeybot | 42 is the meaning to life, the universe and everything. | 07:06 |
| @snapcount | nice | 07:06 |
| @snapcount | wcc? | 07:07 |
| gooeybot | it has been said that wcc is WebGUI Community Contest or http://plainblack.com/wcc | 07:07 |
| -!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: teaching gooeybot to teach others | 07:07 | |
| @preaction | no, gooeybot, wcc is WebGUI Community Contest or http://plainblack.com/wcc | 07:07 |
| gooeybot | i already had it that way, preaction. | 07:07 |
| @preaction | rofl | 07:08 |
| @snapcount | gooeybot, I'm rubber and you're glue, everything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. | 07:08 |
| gooeybot | snapcount: excuse me? | 07:08 |
| @preaction | oh, hey, do we have a google SOAP API key? | 07:09 |
| @preaction | since theres that google search on plainblack | 07:09 |
| @snapcount | you mean plain black? | 07:09 |
| @preaction | gooeybot can do google searching, if i have one of them keys | 07:09 |
| @snapcount | maybe we do | 07:09 |
| gooeybot | preaction: excuse me? | 07:09 |
| @snapcount | I have no idea | 07:10 |
| @preaction | then you can say: | 07:10 |
| @preaction | google for WebGUI | 07:10 |
| @preaction | and it would return some results | 07:10 |
| @snapcount | can he host a game of UNO? | 07:10 |
| @preaction | not that i'm aware of | 07:10 |
| @snapcount | dang it | 07:10 |
| @preaction | he's not eggdrop, but he's pure perl | 07:10 |
| @preaction | (but his source is a mess) | 07:10 |
| @preaction | fajita, in #apache, runs the same codebase | 07:11 |
| @snapcount | gooeybot where is preaction? | 07:11 |
| gooeybot | snapcount: i haven't a clue | 07:11 |
| @preaction | gooeybot seen rizen | 07:11 |
| gooeybot | I haven't seen 'rizen', preaction | 07:11 |
| @snapcount | ah | 07:11 |
| @preaction | gooeybot seen crythias | 07:11 |
| gooeybot | I haven't seen 'crythias', preaction | 07:11 |
| @preaction | gooeybot seen khenn | 07:11 |
| gooeybot | khenn was last seen on #webgui 11 hours, 42 minutes and 37 seconds ago, saying: anyone know what the cachetimeout on files does? [Sat Jan 20 11:30:09 2007] | 07:11 |
| +crythias | hm | 07:11 |
| @snapcount | I'm the Jedi Master!!!!!!! | 07:11 |
| @preaction | gooeybot seen crythias | 07:11 |
| gooeybot | crythias was last seen on #webgui 11 seconds ago, saying: hm [Sat Jan 20 23:13:01 2007] | 07:11 |
| @snapcount | gooeybot seen snapcount | 07:11 |
| gooeybot | snapcount was last seen on #webgui 0 seconds ago, saying: gooeybot seen snapcount [Sat Jan 20 23:13:18 2007] | 07:11 |
| @preaction | so it does work | 07:11 |
| @snapcount | lmao | 07:12 |
| @snapcount | gooeybot who is the Jedi Master? | 07:13 |
| gooeybot | i haven't a clue, snapcount | 07:13 |
| @snapcount | can he fetch rss? | 07:14 |
| @preaction | gooeybot step 1 is Check the error logs, both WebGUI and Apache. | 07:14 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 07:14 |
| @preaction | not that i know of | 07:14 |
| @preaction | http://infobot.org | 07:14 |
| @preaction | gooeybot infobot | 07:14 |
| gooeybot | well, infobot is at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~infobot | 07:14 |
| @snapcount | that would be cool | 07:15 |
| @snapcount | cuz we could see recent commits | 07:15 |
| @snapcount | forum posts | 07:15 |
| @snapcount | etc etc | 07:15 |
| @preaction | indeed | 07:15 |
| @preaction | look at the source, it shouldn't be too hard | 07:15 |
| @preaction | or wait for me to migrate chrisbot to using Module::Pluggable | 07:15 |
| @snapcount | both of those sites are borken | 07:16 |
| @preaction | http://www.infobot.org | 07:16 |
| @preaction | no, gooeybot, infobot is http://www.infobot.org | 07:16 |
| gooeybot | okay, preaction. | 07:16 |
| @snapcount | negative ghostrider | 07:17 |
| @preaction | i was seeing a cached version | 07:17 |
| @preaction | it must just be temporarily down | 07:17 |
| @snapcount | WebGUI? | 07:17 |
| gooeybot | it has been said that WebGUI is A CMS and Application Framework written in Perl or http://webgui.org | 07:17 |
| @snapcount | gooeybot WebGUI will also rock your socks off. | 07:18 |
| gooeybot | snapcount: huh? | 07:18 |
| @preaction | mainly, i didn't want people to stomp on perlbot's facts, since perlbot is not mine | 07:18 |
| @preaction | "is" is the keyword, or "are" | 07:18 |
| @snapcount | I see | 07:18 |
| @preaction | you can make a random response with | | 07:19 |
| @preaction | (pipe) | 07:19 |
| @preaction | or a direct reply with "<reply>response" | 07:19 |
| @snapcount | gooeybot roy is a | | 07:19 |
| gooeybot | OK, snapcount. | 07:19 |
| @snapcount | roy? | 07:19 |
| gooeybot | roy is probably a | | 07:19 |
| @snapcount | not a random definition I suppose | 07:19 |
| @snapcount | gooeybot | | 07:20 |
| gooeybot | snapcount: i'm not following you... | 07:20 |
| @preaction | gooeybot diss is <reply>You suck|<reply>You still suck|<reply>You suck worse than a hoover | 07:20 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 07:20 |
| @preaction | diss? | 07:20 |
| gooeybot | You suck | 07:20 |
| @preaction | diss? | 07:20 |
| gooeybot | You suck worse than a hoover | 07:20 |
| @preaction | diss? | 07:20 |
| gooeybot | You suck worse than a hoover | 07:20 |
| @snapcount | oh... | is a delimiter for possible responses | 07:20 |
| @snapcount | I thought he would just make something up | 07:20 |
| @preaction | when you want a random one | 07:20 |
| @snapcount | are you hosting this on your server? | 07:21 |
| @preaction | yes | 07:21 |
| @preaction | i've got a whole computer doing diddly crap, so i decided why not | 07:21 |
| @preaction | all it does is display a nice matrix screensaver... all day long | 07:21 |
| @snapcount | so I'm thinking when the uploads feature is added to the Wiki, there should be some kind of meta variable that can be used to show the image inline with the article | 07:25 |
| @snapcount | or completed rather | 07:25 |
| @preaction | the html editor can't do that instead? | 07:25 |
| @snapcount | well, JT for whatever reason doesn't want people using the RTE to add images to wiki articles | 07:26 |
| @snapcount | he said the feature was supposed to be disabled | 07:26 |
| @snapcount | at least for our site | 07:26 |
| @preaction | understandable, it's not necessary for us | 07:26 |
| @preaction | but other sites | 07:26 |
| @snapcount | why is it not necessary for us? | 07:26 |
| @snapcount | I think it is | 07:26 |
| @snapcount | screen shots for tutorial articles would be incredibly helpful | 07:27 |
| @preaction | convince him, man | 07:27 |
| @preaction | might as well convince a rock to move of its own free will | 07:27 |
| @snapcount | so why do you think they are un-necessary for us | 07:27 |
| @preaction | nono, i agree with you | 07:27 |
| @preaction | at least, for webgui.org | 07:28 |
| @snapcount | I think his issue may be that the images are uploaded and become assets | 07:28 |
| @snapcount | and are not deleted if the wiki entry is | 07:28 |
| @snapcount | because he's clearly ok with attachments | 07:28 |
| @snapcount | he put the code in to do it | 07:28 |
| @snapcount | just didn't finish it | 07:28 |
| @preaction | could we treat images uploaded by the rich editor specially? link them to an asset and delete them when the asset is deleted? | 07:29 |
| @snapcount | I also want the Wiki to support Karma, Ratings, and Subscriptions | 07:29 |
| @snapcount | We could but I'm not sure how it's currently implemented so I don't know how hard/easy it would be | 07:31 |
| @snapcount | so have any of the new people on channel spoke yet? | 07:34 |
| @preaction | yes, we've been trying to help them a bit | 07:34 |
| @snapcount | cool | 07:34 |
| @preaction | there was an apache problem, and a problem with an old version of wg | 07:34 |
| @snapcount | cool | 07:34 |
| @snapcount | get em all fixed up? | 07:34 |
| @preaction | don't know | 07:34 |
| @preaction | nothing back on the old version problem | 07:35 |
| @preaction | and i directed the apache problem to #apache, because it far surpassed my knowledge | 07:35 |
| @snapcount | what was the problem? | 07:35 |
| @snapcount | sounds interesting | 07:35 |
| @preaction | somehow after the modules loaded, but before the sites became active, there was a 2-5 minute delay | 07:35 |
| @preaction | running a distro Apache / mod_perl | 07:36 |
| @snapcount | sweet | 07:36 |
| @snapcount | that sounds highly annoying | 07:36 |
| @preaction | indeed | 07:36 |
| @preaction | i got as far as running interactively with debug output, and nothing remarkable about it | 07:36 |
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| @preaction | gooeybot no women is The Internet: Where the Men are Men, the Women are Men, and the Kids are FBI. | 11:01 |
| gooeybot | preaction: no idea | 11:01 |
| @preaction | gooeybot no women | 11:01 |
| gooeybot | preaction: excuse me? | 11:01 |
| @preaction | gooeybot no women is <reply>The Internet: Where the Men are Men, the Women are Men, and the Kids are FBI. | 11:02 |
| gooeybot | i haven't a clue, preaction | 11:02 |
| @preaction | you suck gooeybot | 11:02 |
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| specsmu | heh | 17:46 |
| specsmu | sorry bout that I went to bed | 17:46 |
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| --- Day changed Mon Jan 22 2007 | ||
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| * Radix-wrk yawns loudly. | 02:15 | |
| @preaction | keep it down in here! | 02:15 |
| @preaction | i distinctly heard a ruckus! | 02:16 |
| @preaction | 7:51PM up 77 days, 14:02, 3 users, load averages: 0.56, 0.41, 0.29 <- 90Mhz pentium running Apache2, rtorrent, samba, svn, postfix, and courier-pop3 | 02:18 |
| @preaction | poor thing | 02:18 |
| Radix-wrk | heh | 02:20 |
| Radix-wrk | that's a pretty good load average considering! | 02:20 |
| Radix-wrk | my old desktop pc's tend to become my servers whenever I upgrade, so my server always tends to be pretty decent really. | 02:21 |
| Radix-wrk | that's at home anyway | 02:21 |
| @preaction | indeed, with this new lappy i've got a compy just sitting there, once i rebuild it, install FreeBSD or something, it'll probably end up taking over the apache2 load, and maybe the ssh/rtorrent load too | 02:22 |
| @preaction | that, and i need to upgrade my wintendo box, so i can play Supreme Commander, so the mobo currently in there will become server number three, i'm hoping to set up a FreeBSD box as a router/DNS/port forwarder etc... for my home network | 02:23 |
| @preaction | unless linux would be better | 02:23 |
| @preaction | i haven't had anyone tell me if iptables is better or worse than the BSD pf | 02:23 |
| Radix-wrk | all much of a muchness I thought | 02:24 |
| Radix-wrk | all comes down to how you configure it :) | 02:24 |
| @preaction | well, pf has QoS and scheduling built-in | 02:24 |
| Radix-wrk | there's plenty of QoS options on linux these days too | 02:24 |
| @preaction | iptables is in the kernel, and there's a userspace utility to add QoS | 02:24 |
| @preaction | i suppose it comes down to: pf seems easier to configure | 02:25 |
| Radix-wrk | well there you go then | 02:25 |
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| perlm | Can someone tell me how to force an event to the log file. I think I've resolved all my spectre config issues, but nothing is showing up in the logs (but nothing appears tobe broken anymore either). | 02:27 |
| @preaction | edit the code? | 02:28 |
| @snapcount | set your log level to debug | 02:28 |
| @snapcount | spectre/workflow will log a lot more info in debug | 02:28 |
| perlm | okay, thansk | 02:28 |
| Radix-wrk | spectre --debug isn't it | 02:29 |
| @preaction | a lot of meaningless crap that may be hard to sort through when there actually IS a problem | 02:29 |
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| @snapcount | that's true | 02:29 |
| @snapcount | Radix-wrk: no, I was referring to editing the log.conf | 02:29 |
| @snapcount | running spectre in debug may also garner those messages though | 02:30 |
| PedersenMJ | hey there. | 02:30 |
| @snapcount | I'd have to look at the source | 02:30 |
| @snapcount | hey PedersenMJ | 02:30 |
| @snapcount | how are the themes coming? | 02:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Working on the readme for the Andreas02 right now, and then posting it. | 02:31 |
| Radix-wrk | cool | 02:31 |
| Radix-wrk | nice work PedersenMJ | 02:31 |
| perlm | spectre --debug doesn't write to the log file, but to either STOUT or STDERR | 02:31 |
| @snapcount | rock on man | 02:31 |
| Radix-wrk | perlm: true | 02:31 |
| @snapcount | perlm: yes, I was referring to the information provided though | 02:31 |
| PedersenMJ | This one will make a good theme for something on the lines of a "planet webgui", definitely. | 02:32 |
| @snapcount | I think that's what radix was getting at as well | 02:32 |
| @snapcount | I can't wait to see it | 02:32 |
| @snapcount | maybe you could apply it to a demo real quick so I can check it out? | 02:32 |
| @snapcount | when you're done of course | 02:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Absolutely. I did have a demo of it the other night. I just haven't been able to work this weekend, due to continuing my epic move. | 02:33 |
| perlm | Wow, the problem was my install was so stable there was never anything to LOG. There wasn't anything wrong with the logger. Cool | 02:37 |
| Radix-wrk | heh.. if only every problem was that easy | 02:37 |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. looks like the SHA-1/MD5 encryption algorithms has been cracked. | 02:41 |
| @preaction | "cracked"? | 02:41 |
| Radix-wrk | http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/20/1936257&from=rss | 02:41 |
| Radix-wrk | Chinese Professor has supposedly done it | 02:41 |
| @preaction | it's not encryption, it's hashing | 02:41 |
| Radix-wrk | true | 02:42 |
| Radix-wrk | both apache and webgui use md5 hashing tho | 02:43 |
| @preaction | well, a long while ago it was recommended for SSL connections to use RSA 2048 | 02:44 |
| @preaction | i call shenanigans, the article keeps talking about "Cracking" and "decrypting" a hashing algorithm | 02:47 |
| Radix-wrk | Reading the /. comments - seems like this occurred sometime early last year, so the crypto community has known about it for a while | 02:47 |
| @snapcount | preaction: is your pb username preaction as well? | 02:53 |
| @snapcount | or is it dbell? | 02:54 |
| Radix-wrk | DBell isn't it? | 02:54 |
| @preaction | DBell | 02:54 |
| @preaction | though I should probably alias to "preaction" | 02:55 |
| PedersenMJ | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1169426991_711/ | 02:55 |
| PedersenMJ | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1169426991_711/andreas02/readme | 02:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Now to post it under the contrib. | 02:55 |
| -!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: Congratulations Doug! http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/pbwg-meet-doug-bell | 02:56 | |
| Radix-wrk | Awesome PedersenMJ | 02:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Reload it a couple of times, and read what's next to that graphic. | 02:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Each time you reload. | 02:57 |
| @snapcount | PedersenMJ: very nicely done | 02:59 |
| PedersenMJ | Thank you. I'm happy with the results. Still very customizable, and without having to put in a lot of effort by the user. | 02:59 |
| @snapcount | that's the whole idea of WebGUI... contributions like this hammer the point home | 03:01 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.plainblack.com/user_contributions/user_contributions/packages/theme-andreas02 | 03:03 |
| PedersenMJ | There, that one's done. | 03:03 |
| PedersenMJ | And say another thanks to Roy. Since you added the "how to install a package" wiki page, I'm just linking to it :) | 03:04 |
| @snapcount | it's just a start.... probably lots of room for improvement | 03:05 |
| @snapcount | alrighty... taking the chica out to dinner... ttyl guys | 03:05 |
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| PedersenMJ | Heck, if it does get improved, then I'll get the benefit of it just by having linked :) | 03:05 |
| PedersenMJ | This theme was a lot to get done properly. Wound up learning a fair amount about webgui and templating. It was nice :) | 03:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, has anybody considered setting up a VM for use with the WRE? | 03:06 |
| Radix-wrk | I've been using vmware with wre for a while | 03:07 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm thinking about making a vmware instance, and adding *it* to the contribs, which has a bare minimum install of a Linux distro, and putting the WRE in it. | 03:07 |
| Radix-wrk | not a bad idea really.. though it'd be pretty huge | 03:08 |
| Radix-wrk | even a basic vmware setup takes up a fair chunk of disk space | 03:08 |
| PedersenMJ | Maybe. Compress it with either zip -9 or bzip2, and it shouldn't be so bad. | 03:09 |
| Radix-wrk | vmware have their 'virtual appliances' section tho.. would be good to add a webgui site to that if it isn't there already | 03:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, I'm not talking about providing vmware, just the virtual machine files. | 03:09 |
| PedersenMJ | That's what I was thinking of, was the virtual appliance aspect. | 03:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, nothing there. I think I'll hold off until the next rel of webgui, though, and then make it, since I can do pretty small debian installations. | 03:11 |
| PedersenMJ | And 0.8 WRE will (if I'm remember what Rizen told me correctly) support Debian. | 03:11 |
| Radix-wrk | I used centos 4.3 for our wre install at work - that uses the RHEL4 wre and works pretty well. Very very simple to install as you effectively install nothing but the base system | 03:12 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep. The only reason I'm thinking of Debian instead is because I think I can do even smaller. I have VMs running under vmware server that have a whole gig of hd space, and are running a bunch of stuff. | 03:13 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/campaigns/people | 03:18 |
| PedersenMJ | JT's picture... He looks so pissed off right there :) | 03:19 |
| perlm | How do I unarchive a Collarboration System Post? | 03:26 |
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| PedersenMJ | Wow, wonder if all the departures are something I said? | 04:33 |
| Radix-wrk | Well.. I wasn't going to comment about the body odour, but... | 04:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Aww, dang it, I knew I shouldn't have tried that new "decaying skunk" scented one. | 04:35 |
| Radix-wrk | heh.. my sister has a scent called 'Duck's bum' - no kidding. | 04:36 |
| Radix-wrk | just for show tho ;) | 04:36 |
| Radix-wrk | but i get a chuckle every time I see it | 04:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, unless there's a suitor after her that she wants to throw off the trail, so to speak. | 04:37 |
| Radix-wrk | perfect for those kind of occasions I'm sure ;) | 04:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Screw it, I'm upgrading wg on my sites to 7.3.5 right now. It's good enough for my needs :) | 04:43 |
| PedersenMJ | And, luckily enough, I don't mind completely destroying old databases. | 04:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Curious.... If I put in an invalid login, I get the webgui default style. | 04:47 |
| PedersenMJ | On a site which I have, supposedly, customized. | 04:47 |
| Radix-wrk | that's normal | 04:48 |
| Radix-wrk | there's a default style setting you need to set in settings I think it is | 04:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Aha, okay. Now to find that. | 04:49 |
| PedersenMJ | That was it. Thank you. | 04:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Settings/UI | 04:50 |
| Radix-wrk | User Function Style | 04:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Correct. | 04:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Rather, confirmed. That's a point I'm going to have to put into my own docs for the next theme. | 04:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | perlbot: frank? | 05:38 |
| PedersenMJ | bob | 05:39 |
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| PedersenMJ | Hey, perlDreamer, some good news: http://www.plainblack.com/user_contributions/user_contributions/packages/theme-andreas02 | 05:39 |
| +perlDreamer | I saw your upload. Nice work. | 05:45 |
| +perlDreamer | People didn't like my template tools quite as much | 05:45 |
| @snapcount | I liked it | 05:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Which template tools? | 05:45 |
| @snapcount | his importer/exporter | 05:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Where is it? I didn't even know it had been uploaded. | 05:46 |
| +perlDreamer | Never mind me, I just get grumpy after being thrown up on. | 05:46 |
| @snapcount | ahh... the joys of being a daddy | 05:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, if that happened, I hope it was a two year old having a bad meal. Outside of that, I don't think I'd handle it well. And, even if it was that, I dunno that I'd handle it well. | 05:47 |
| +perlDreamer | It was a five year old in a wave pool, so pretty good guess! | 05:48 |
| @snapcount | http://www.plainblack.com/user_contributions/user_contributions/miscellaneous/template-import-and-export-utility-for-webgui-7.3#67s1xKEeGw_ZujD9VizRZA | 05:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, I wouldn't handle that well at all :) | 05:48 |
| +perlDreamer | so what's been shakin' since I've been offline? | 05:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, not much for me. I just did that upload about an hour ago. Installed latest rev of webgui, and updated my sites with a nice clean install. And threw my back out again, I think. Lots of moving this weekend. Hopefully, next weekend is the end of moving out of the old place. | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | I was shakin a bit | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | moving sucks | 05:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, that templateFiler is nice. Thank you. | 05:51 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm not going to be able to use it much with how I use webgui, but I can see potential use for it, definitely. | 05:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I used it to scan all the templates for more potential JS/HTML escaping bugs. | 05:53 |
| +perlDreamer | It's easier to do that with grep and perl than eyeing line by line | 05:53 |
| @snapcount | hey don't feel bad perlDreamer, no one liked my network tools api either | 05:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, excellent. Hell yes it is :) | 05:53 |
| @snapcount | I thought for sure someone would turn it into the portscan or service monitor wobject | 05:54 |
| +perlDreamer | blessed are the toolmakers | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, roy, those network tools: When they open their socket, how long does the timeout last before it gives up? | 05:54 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: have you seen this bug | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/testenvironment.pl-do-not-tests-all-modules#gB6g7poAF_5RpY7fbxY3Jw | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot: shorten it | 05:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Basically, I've got a problem at work that I need to be notified if it occurs. I want to know if a connection fails to be made within 2 seconds. | 05:55 |
| perlbot | Shortened URL: http://xrl.us/ucth | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot help | 05:55 |
| perlbot | (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip) | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 05:56 |
| @snapcount | I've seen it now | 05:57 |
| +perlDreamer | any idea why they might have been removed? | 05:57 |
| +perlDreamer | because they used to be in there | 05:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I tracked it down via SVN::Web | 05:57 |
| @snapcount | what's up? | 05:58 |
| @snapcount | who took it out? | 05:58 |
| +perlDreamer | _the don_ | 05:58 |
| +perlDreamer | https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/revision/?rev=3371 | 05:59 |
| @snapcount | ping pong | 06:02 |
| @snapcount | I dunno why he did | 06:08 |
| +perlDreamer | you think it's safe to put it back in? | 06:10 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe I'll email him tomorrow | 06:10 |
| @snapcount | I wouldn't until you ask him | 06:13 |
| @snapcount | he probably has a reason for doing it | 06:13 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 06:14 |
| +perlDreamer | wife time. | 06:14 |
| +perlDreamer | Catch y'all tomorrow | 06:14 |
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| PedersenMJ | and I'm off to bed as well. l8r! | 06:43 |
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| @preaction | a little ginger in your coffee helps the wake-up process, and cinnamon makes it taste good. | 16:26 |
| @preaction | that is all. | 16:26 |
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| @preaction | another day, another dollar, another chunk out of a finite and rapidly passing life | 16:35 |
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| * PedersenMJ waves. | 17:39 | |
| @preaction | snapcount: you here? | 17:39 |
| @snapcount | no | 17:40 |
| @snapcount | this is a recording | 17:40 |
| @snapcount | crap | 17:40 |
| @snapcount | not signed on skype right? | 17:40 |
| @preaction | snapcount: exactly, but for a different reason | 17:40 |
| @snapcount | uhh | 17:40 |
| @snapcount | is it the end of the world as we know it and you feel fine? | 17:41 |
| @preaction | not, we're not feeling fine | 17:41 |
| @preaction | we are definately not doing that | 17:41 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, JT, the theme I uploaded last night could make for an excellent planetwebgui.com/org site. | 17:53 |
| @rizen | i said that somebody should create a planet.webgui.org site | 17:53 |
| @rizen | not that i was interested in doing it =) | 17:54 |
| PedersenMJ | You're correct, but if somebody does, that theme could do well. I don't think I have the skills or the time to do it well, else I would. | 17:55 |
| @preaction | we should register webgui with freenode, so we can get user@projects/webgui user cloaks | 18:10 |
| ckotil | good idea | 18:11 |
| diakopter | godaddy offers free SSL certs for open source projects - https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/ssl/ssl_opensource.asp | 18:12 |
| @preaction | http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml <- for whomever wants to do that | 18:12 |
| ckotil | when using WebGUI::VersionTag->getWorking($session); | 18:33 |
| ckotil | $versionTag->commit; | 18:33 |
| ckotil | does it by pass the approval step? | 18:33 |
| ckotil | ah... requestCommit(); i bet thats what i want | 18:36 |
| ckotil | yup | 18:42 |
| xdanger | is it nasty to answer a client with "pebkac" in the end ;) | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | just assign him id 10t | 18:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 18:48 |
| xdanger | their "error reports" are "This doesn't work" | 18:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | well | 18:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | all i can say is | 18:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | good luck =) | 18:48 |
| xdanger | this time... there was an attached email that said "Saving the budjet data for june doesn't work" | 18:49 |
| xdanger | It's imposible for some of the colums to work and some not... | 18:49 |
| xdanger | if they work in different months... | 18:50 |
| xdanger | I hate that project... | 18:50 |
| xdanger | worst deal ever... | 18:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | rizen: bug consult? | 19:24 |
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| ckotil | How can I set commit w/ approval to only concern itself with a specific asset(s)? then the rest of the site be commit w/out approval ? | 19:36 |
| perlm | hack the commit asset? | 19:37 |
| ckotil | that could work. | 19:37 |
| ckotil | The reason i want to do this is so that everytime i make an edit to the site , everyone on the approve list doesnt recieve an email about the changes ive made | 19:38 |
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| ckotil | so i guess the best way would be to setup the site to do commit w/out approval and hten to hack the commit asset so that it does commit w/ approval for the folder assets I need that approval on. | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be nice if the commit workflow setting were more granular | 19:45 |
| ckotil | exactly. | 19:45 |
| * perlDreamer whispers the magic incantation "R F E" | 19:45 | |
| ckotil | thats a PIA. ive yet to have an rfe make it into the code | 19:46 |
| ckotil | hrmm... since im using requestCOmmit(); it should require approval even if the workflow is set to commit w/out approval? | 19:47 |
| ckotil | im calling requestCommit() from a utility script | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know. I'm not too familiar with the whole version control API | 19:48 |
| ckotil | k | 19:48 |
| * ckotil is about to find out | 19:49 | |
| +MrHairgrease | ckotil: I think not | 19:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | not sure though | 19:49 |
| ckotil | oh yeah. i think it worked like i wanted ;] | 19:49 |
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| ckotil | mmmm ok im gonna use set(name, workflowID) and tell it to use my workflow that has commit w/ approval | 19:55 |
| ckotil | COOL. | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | the update scripts do commits without workflows by calling commit directly, instead of requestCommit | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | but all the sites I've used it on were set for commit w/o approval anyway... | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 19:57 |
| ckotil | ya i need approval | 19:58 |
| ckotil | so when i had the site's default workflow set to commit w/ approval. everything worked fine. BUT i dont want everyone to be notified via email about each change ive made | 19:58 |
| ckotil | so i turned set it back to commit w/out approval | 19:58 |
| ckotil | and ill jsut attach the commit w/ approval workflow to the version tag thats created and commited in my utility script. | 19:59 |
| ckotil | lunchtime. | 19:59 |
| @preaction | some assets have a way to set their own approval workflow | 19:59 |
| @preaction | the wiki, cs, and calendar | 19:59 |
| ckotil | thats a nice feature. now if they all did it. | 19:59 |
| ckotil | im using the folder asset | 19:59 |
| @preaction | rather, wikipage, post, and event | 19:59 |
| @preaction | you could subclass the folder asset and add it | 20:00 |
| +perlDreamer | it's hard to really subclass assets | 20:00 |
| ckotil | that flew way over my head. | 20:00 |
| @preaction | then update all your classnames in the "assets" table to use your new classname (which, after deleting cache, should just work) | 20:00 |
| ckotil | heh | 20:00 |
| +perlDreamer | you have to reimplement all the template methods | 20:00 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: pshaw how do you mean? | 20:01 |
| @preaction | you mean like www_view and the like? | 20:01 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 20:01 |
| @preaction | no, i've made assets w/o www_view | 20:01 |
| @preaction | recently | 20:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | but if your subclassed assets wants to extend any www_ method, it has to be completely redone | 20:02 |
| @preaction | well yeah, but his doesn't | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | as long as you work in that subset, then, it's not so hard to subclass assets | 20:02 |
| @preaction | all he'd have to do is add two methods, getApprovalWorkflow and ... one other | 20:04 |
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| @rizen | back now dreamer | 20:09 |
| @rizen | what can i do for you | 20:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, I know something you *can* do for him, that he'd appreciate, definitely: A 25% raise ;) | 20:15 |
| @rizen | pd doesn't work for me | 20:16 |
| @rizen | so i can give him a raise | 20:16 |
| @rizen | but 25% of zero | 20:16 |
| @rizen | is still zero | 20:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, then, why stop at 25%? Let's make it an 100% raise ;) | 20:17 |
| @rizen | good idea | 20:18 |
| @rizen | perldreamer, you now have a 250000% raise | 20:18 |
| @rizen | on your $0 salary for not working for me | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: is this a bug: http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/testenvironment.pl-do-not-tests-all-modules#gB6g7poAF_5RpY7fbxY3Jw ? | 20:19 |
| * perlDreamer was afk for a bit, examining pustulent tonsils | 20:20 | |
| +perlDreamer | more info: the module checks were removed in this rev https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/revision/?rev=3371 | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | gooeybot: shorten it | 20:21 |
| gooeybot | perlDreamer: huh? | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | perlbot shorten it | 20:21 |
| perlbot | Shortened URL: http://snipurl.com/1825g | 20:21 |
| @rizen | crap | 20:21 |
| @rizen | they weren't supposed to be removed | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll blow them back in | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | going on week 3 with no $dayJob projects | 20:22 |
| @rizen | wow | 20:22 |
| @rizen | your $dayjob must make a lot of money when they do have you doing something | 20:23 |
| @rizen | in order to account for all the downtime they give you | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | it's sheer incompetence | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | last year Maxim I think Maxim pulled in over $2e9 | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | and when projects are rated, they have to pull in $1e6/man month of project effort in order to be considered | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | the ratio is called "The Rodent" Return on DEsigNer Time | 20:24 |
| @rizen | hmm..well i hope if plain black ever becomes a bn $$ company, we don't have such problems | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | you have the same problem, just at a lower scale. | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | no projects means reduced income | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | it's just that we have people who are supposed to be dedicated to going out to customers and getting info for creating new projects | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | and Maxim isn't smart enough to assign us to R&D projects in our downtime | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | It's a management problem | 20:31 |
| @preaction | their loss is webgui's gain | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | anyhow, I fixed the bug, so time to head into the office | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | it's always fun to hack :) | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | bbl | 20:31 |
| @rizen | we're glad to have you | 20:31 |
| @rizen | =) | 20:31 |
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| * ckotil hugs webgui | 21:01 | |
| @rizen | whoa | 21:02 |
| @rizen | getting a little fresh with webgui are we? | 21:02 |
| ckotil | hell yeah i am | 21:02 |
| @rizen | what if webgui's not into that sort of public display of affection? | 21:03 |
| ckotil | jali time | 21:03 |
| ckotil | jail* | 21:03 |
| diakopter | webgui is still jailbait | 21:05 |
| diakopter | ;) | 21:05 |
| @rizen | the good news is that in content management system years WebGUI is over 21 | 21:05 |
| @rizen | so you're safe | 21:05 |
| @rizen | =) | 21:05 |
| @rizen | cms years are like dog years | 21:06 |
| ckotil | yeah bc 15 will get you 20. | 21:06 |
| ckotil | 15 yrs old that is | 21:06 |
| diakopter | what about web app framework years | 21:06 |
| diakopter | or even perl web app framework years | 21:06 |
| @rizen | i'm pretty sure that webgui likes pda | 21:06 |
| diakopter | it's ancient! | 21:06 |
| @rizen | so you're ok | 21:06 |
| * diakopter begins a WebGUI-anorexic port on Jifty. | 21:08 | |
| @rizen | huh? | 21:15 |
| ckotil | i get it. youngins like to purge | 21:15 |
| ckotil | or just not eat entirely | 21:16 |
| @snapcount | so Doug and I have come up with another asset that webgui needs | 21:18 |
| @rizen | a texas holdem asset? | 21:19 |
| @snapcount | that would be sweet | 21:19 |
| @snapcount | but no | 21:19 |
| @snapcount | I'm not sure what you would call it | 21:19 |
| @rizen | a crash bandicoot asset | 21:19 |
| @rizen | or my personal favorite, a guitar hero asset | 21:19 |
| @snapcount | but basically it's a navigation asset that can filter on classnames and other asset properties | 21:20 |
| @snapcount | through a spiffy UI | 21:20 |
| @snapcount | kind of like sql report | 21:20 |
| @snapcount | without the sql | 21:20 |
| @rizen | so why did you tack the "and I" to your statement | 21:20 |
| @rizen | he brought that idea up last week by himeself | 21:20 |
| @rizen | are you trying to take credit | 21:20 |
| @rizen | ?? | 21:20 |
| @snapcount | well, we talked about it today | 21:21 |
| @snapcount | and it turns out I had the same idea | 21:21 |
| @rizen | you plagerizing bastard | 21:21 |
| @snapcount | we both got it at about the same time from the same support board post | 21:21 |
| @rizen | guido...take care of him | 21:21 |
| @snapcount | his idea is actually better | 21:21 |
| @snapcount | in all the stuff it could do | 21:21 |
| @snapcount | mine was basically just a modified nav asset | 21:22 |
| @snapcount | so what do you think of it rizen? | 21:22 |
| @rizen | i think that doug is brilliant and you're a moron | 21:22 |
| @rizen | idea stealer | 21:22 |
| @rizen | band wagon jumper | 21:23 |
| @rizen | apple polisher | 21:23 |
| @snapcount | you know what they say | 21:23 |
| @rizen | brown noser | 21:23 |
| @snapcount | there are no new ideas | 21:23 |
| PedersenMJ | It never fails to amaze me at just how restrained JT is in expressing his emotions about other people :) | 21:23 |
| @snapcount | at least that's what m$ says | 21:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | paraphraser! | 21:23 |
| @rizen | i think it's a good idea for an asset as long as it doesn't cause more problems than it solves | 21:23 |
| @snapcount | he is especially fond of me, if you can't tell | 21:24 |
| @rizen | the advantage is that people stop using the sql report to get them a list of the 10 most recent cs posts about x | 21:24 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, it shows, believe me. Why, I wouldn't be surprised to find that he is the *only* one who rated your network tools :) | 21:24 |
| @rizen | the disadvantage is that unless it's written to take into account varying specialty cases...it will perform slowly and bring sites to their knees | 21:25 |
| ckotil | could i use the sqlreport tool to return a list of the X most recently edited assets? or past version tags from a certain user? | 21:25 |
| @rizen | in other words, it can't use a one size fits all querying mechanism | 21:25 |
| @snapcount | rizen: I thought it would use varying calls to getLineage | 21:26 |
| @rizen | based upon what the user is asking for, it needs to optimize it's query (or queries) in different ways | 21:26 |
| @snapcount | but perhaps that's what you are saying is bad | 21:26 |
| @rizen | see...that's exactly what's wrong | 21:26 |
| @rizen | it can't always rely upon that | 21:26 |
| @rizen | or you're going to kill someone's web server | 21:26 |
| @snapcount | murder death kill | 21:27 |
| @rizen | getLineage is the 20 pound sledge hammer | 21:27 |
| @rizen | when sometimes what you need is a 5mm socket | 21:27 |
| @snapcount | ckotil: don't see any reason why you couldn't | 21:28 |
| ckotil | k | 21:28 |
| @snapcount | the sql might be a little hairy | 21:28 |
| ckotil | i just used assetLineage::promote in my utility script. worked like a charm, and thats what brought me hugging webgui | 21:28 |
| @snapcount | heh | 21:29 |
| @snapcount | api++ | 21:29 |
| ckotil | ah, thats fine, i have sql guru's at my displosal | 21:29 |
| @snapcount | so last night I was looking at the workflow code to see how I could merge chains processing into it and basically it would suck | 21:31 |
| @rizen | i think that's where you are going wrong | 21:32 |
| @rizen | you shouldn't merge chains into workflow | 21:32 |
| @rizen | chains should become the webgui flow control | 21:32 |
| @rizen | and then we add a synchronous option to webgui workflow | 21:33 |
| @rizen | chains isn't interesting at the workflow level | 21:34 |
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| @snapcount | Iunf | 21:34 |
| @rizen | it's too low level to be interesting there | 21:34 |
| @snapcount | last thing I got was add sync workflows | 21:35 |
| @snapcount | did i miss another stmt in there | 21:35 |
| @rizen | chains isn't interesting at the workflow level | 21:35 |
| @rizen | it's too low level to be interesting there | 21:35 |
| @snapcount | you think it's too complicated / unnecessary? | 21:36 |
| @rizen | i think it's too limiting | 21:36 |
| @snapcount | wow | 21:36 |
| @rizen | the fact that you're putting the conditionals that it's capable into the user interface | 21:36 |
| @rizen | limits what you can do with it | 21:36 |
| @rizen | the workflow engine assumes nothing | 21:37 |
| @rizen | except that you're going to execute code | 21:37 |
| @rizen | that's where it's power lies | 21:37 |
| @rizen | it can litterally do anything | 21:37 |
| @snapcount | hmm | 21:37 |
| @rizen | whereas the limits that you've put into it | 21:37 |
| @rizen | with the conditions | 21:37 |
| @rizen | are perfect for flow control at the url dispatch level | 21:38 |
| @rizen | at that level | 21:38 |
| @rizen | you just have a few simple things going on | 21:38 |
| @rizen | should it do this | 21:38 |
| @rizen | should it do that | 21:38 |
| @rizen | it did that | 21:38 |
| @rizen | but nothing came back | 21:38 |
| @rizen | so now let's do this | 21:38 |
| @rizen | chains is a great dispatcher | 21:39 |
| @rizen | if i may be so bold, i think the problem you're having getting your head around this is that chains is your first big baby and as such you want it to be implemented as is, as widely as possible | 21:42 |
| @rizen | you don't look at it like a prototype of trying out ideas | 21:42 |
| @rizen | you're looking at it as this is a finished working product | 21:42 |
| @rizen | and how dare i question where it should go in the system | 21:42 |
| @snapcount | no no, that's not it | 21:43 |
| @rizen | the reason i think that is because it's exactly how i was when i first started doing big ideas | 21:43 |
| @snapcount | there is an attachment | 21:43 |
| @snapcount | but it's not as great as my respect for what you know | 21:43 |
| @snapcount | I'm just not sure you understand everything chains can do as written now | 21:43 |
| @rizen | you demo'd it for me while i was sitting right there | 21:44 |
| @rizen | i know what it can do | 21:44 |
| @snapcount | but when you spoke to limitations | 21:44 |
| @snapcount | I don't see those | 21:44 |
| @rizen | it's simple mechanics | 21:44 |
| @rizen | the more parameters you add to a system the more contrained you become from those parameters | 21:45 |
| @rizen | you assume that there is a condition to be met | 21:45 |
| @rizen | or rather chains does | 21:45 |
| @rizen | what if there isn't what if it's just do this work | 21:45 |
| @rizen | no conditions | 21:45 |
| @snapcount | I see what you're saying | 21:46 |
| @rizen | also, chains assumes that the conditions must match true/false values | 21:46 |
| @rizen | or your equivalents of them | 21:46 |
| @rizen | with the workflow engine | 21:46 |
| @rizen | it assumes nothing | 21:46 |
| @rizen | just that you want to execute some code | 21:46 |
| @rizen | therefore, the developer writing plugins for it | 21:47 |
| @rizen | can add conditions if needed | 21:47 |
| @rizen | and those conditions can be hierarchical | 21:47 |
| @rizen | boolean | 21:47 |
| @rizen | object oriented | 21:47 |
| @rizen | an entire state machine | 21:47 |
| @rizen | the only thing that the workflow engine is missing is that it can't currently run things synchronously | 21:48 |
| @rizen | and i can add that in about 10 lines of code | 21:48 |
| @rizen | and one database field | 21:48 |
| @rizen | thereby when a workflow is triggered | 21:48 |
| * diakopter just now realizes what the term "brown noser" implies | 21:48 | |
| @rizen | if synchronous | 21:48 |
| @rizen | execute the entire workflow at trigger time | 21:48 |
| ckotil | Can I be notified if a user decideds to not approve a commit? | 21:58 |
| @rizen | yes | 21:59 |
| @rizen | commit with approval notifies you either way by default | 21:59 |
| ckotil | i used requestCommit(); | 21:59 |
| @rizen | right, but what workflow is that running | 22:00 |
| ckotil | and im using the default commit w/out approval workflow | 22:00 |
| @rizen | that's what notifies you | 22:00 |
| @rizen | well since there is no approval | 22:00 |
| @rizen | what notification would you need | 22:00 |
| @rizen | it can't be not approved | 22:00 |
| ckotil | requestCommit() is running the default commit w/ approval | 22:00 |
| @rizen | right | 22:00 |
| @rizen | if you're programming a trigger | 22:00 |
| ckotil | I instruct it to, with set() | 22:00 |
| @rizen | then you need to set which workflow you want to run | 22:00 |
| ckotil | i did that. | 22:00 |
| ckotil | commit w/ approval | 22:01 |
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| @rizen | then what's the problem? | 22:01 |
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| ckotil | the problem is that when we deny the approval we do not recieve any notification that its been denied | 22:02 |
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| @rizen | then you have something configured wrong | 22:03 |
| @rizen | cuz it works | 22:03 |
| ckotil | ok | 22:03 |
| @rizen | lots of our clients use it | 22:03 |
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| ckotil | ill recheck. | 22:03 |
| @rizen | i would be getting lots of complaints in my ear | 22:04 |
| +perlDreamer | hey! my commit flows just stopped working | 22:04 |
| ckotil | im migrating this over to our production server | 22:04 |
| +perlDreamer | what's up with that? | 22:04 |
| ckotil | so im pry overlooking something | 22:04 |
| @rizen | here's something | 22:04 |
| @rizen | who is actually doing the commit | 22:04 |
| ckotil | the utility script | 22:05 |
| @rizen | what user is in the session at the time of the commit | 22:05 |
| @rizen | and what is the email address of that user | 22:05 |
| @rizen | by default your session is the visitor user | 22:05 |
| ckotil | our support servicve desk | 22:05 |
| @rizen | so if you're notifying committer | 22:05 |
| ckotil | yeah, we define a user. | 22:05 |
| @rizen | and committer is visitor | 22:05 |
| @rizen | ok...was just throwing that out there | 22:06 |
| +perlDreamer | does the support service desk get WebGUI emails, like ever? | 22:06 |
| @rizen | how about not 'like' ever, but just actually ever | 22:06 |
| @rizen | colin lpm = 1 | 22:07 |
| +perlDreamer | say what, rizen? | 22:07 |
| @rizen | in a former life i used to work at places that had lots of high school and college kids as employees | 22:07 |
| @rizen | one of my favorite things to do was to measure their LPM | 22:08 |
| @rizen | 'Likes' Per Minute | 22:08 |
| @rizen | It's so like groady, like totally | 22:08 |
| @rizen | do you like know what i mean | 22:08 |
| +perlDreamer | you should build that into gooeybot | 22:08 |
| @rizen | it's so like fashionable to be like dressing like jennifer lopez | 22:08 |
| @rizen | like do you know what i mean | 22:09 |
| +perlDreamer | way | 22:09 |
| ckotil | im gonna submit a fund a feature. and i want a cheap quote ;] | 22:10 |
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| @rizen | while i thought that it was great that kids were adopting the concept of simile into their language, i always thought metaphor was a more creative way to go | 22:10 |
| @rizen | =) | 22:10 |
| -!- perlDreamer is now known as perlRunner | 22:11 | |
| @snapcount | rizen: does spectre use the db to determine how many wf instances it's processing or does it maintain that state internally? | 22:18 |
| @rizen | in memory | 22:19 |
| @snapcount | so, having another instance of spectre running on a second server in a load balanced environment would actually allow more work to be done quicker | 22:19 |
| @snapcount | I'm guessing that's not by accident =) | 22:20 |
| @rizen | no | 22:21 |
| @rizen | you'd never want to do that | 22:21 |
| @rizen | spectre is the governor | 22:21 |
| @rizen | you only want one governor | 22:21 |
| @rizen | however, you can have as many workers as you want | 22:22 |
| @rizen | therefore if you have multiple webgui servers set up load balanced | 22:22 |
| @rizen | spectre can use all of them as workers | 22:22 |
| @rizen | thusly dividing the workload up | 22:22 |
| @rizen | spectre doesn't do any work | 22:22 |
| @rizen | it just manages stuff | 22:22 |
| @snapcount | ok that makes sense | 22:22 |
| @rizen | so having multiple spectres running doesn't get you anything | 22:23 |
| @snapcount | so the ip sprayer (or whatever is dividing requests) is actually what spreads the workflow load as well | 22:25 |
| @snapcount | so you can safely bump max workers up each time you add a server to the cluster, assuming the load is distributed evenly | 22:26 |
| @rizen | yup | 22:28 |
| @rizen | and yup | 22:28 |
| @rizen | although technically you won't have to bump max workers up | 22:29 |
| @rizen | the tasks will be completing quicker | 22:29 |
| @rizen | so the work will get done faster anyway | 22:29 |
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| PedersenMJ | Quick question about the wiki functions? Can we attach arbitrary files to a wiki entry yet? | 23:53 |
| @rizen | no | 23:54 |
| @rizen | it was supposed to be able to do that, but i ran out of time to implement it before the 7.3 deadline | 23:54 |
| @rizen | it will be there in 7.4 | 23:54 |
| --- Day changed Tue Jan 23 2007 | ||
| PedersenMJ | Ahh, too bad. Can't convert everything to wg, yet. Soon though, from the sounds of it. | 00:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Hmmm, tell me how stupid this idea is, please, before I try and submit an RFE for it: Make the help files into a wiki section. | 00:06 |
| +perlRunner | The help files are a little more than documentation. | 00:15 |
| +perlRunner | Since they live inside code, it also allows us to use the same docs for tooltips | 00:15 |
| +perlRunner | and eventually the template variable editor | 00:15 |
| +perlRunner | you'd have to have some very special markup in order to do that with wiki-style docs | 00:15 |
| +perlRunner | now, things that were pure HOWTOs would be great to do that way | 00:17 |
| +perlRunner | snapcount: remember that funny display bug you say with style03? I'm seeing it now. But it's on Mozilla 1.4 | 00:28 |
| @snapcount | in the demo? | 00:29 |
| @snapcount | on your dev instance? | 00:29 |
| @snapcount | which | 00:29 |
| +perlRunner | no, on a site that was recently installed | 00:29 |
| +perlRunner | www.32ford.com | 00:30 |
| @snapcount | when it happened to me, it was because in true dumbass fashion, I somehow removed the FileUrl macro from the config file | 00:30 |
| +perlRunner | I'll check that out | 00:30 |
| @snapcount | anyone want to help me troubleshoot a wG 6.8 calendar problem | 00:30 |
| +perlRunner | 6.8? | 00:31 |
| @snapcount | yeah | 00:31 |
| +perlRunner | I'll have to download it | 00:31 |
| +perlRunner | give me a few minutes | 00:31 |
| @snapcount | I'm stumped | 00:31 |
| +perlRunner | this site has file url enabled | 00:32 |
| +perlRunner | which 6.8? | 00:32 |
| @snapcount | 6.8.8 | 00:35 |
| +perlRunner | okay, got it | 00:36 |
| +perlRunner | what next? | 00:36 |
| +perlRunner | snapcount: ping | 00:37 |
| @snapcount | sorry | 00:37 |
| @snapcount | the problem is that an event is being displayed and it shouldn't | 00:37 |
| @snapcount | b/c of start/end date | 00:37 |
| @snapcount | So if you set the start date to yesterday and the end date to today | 00:38 |
| @snapcount | with a time sometime this morning | 00:38 |
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| @snapcount | oh my freaking god | 00:38 |
| @snapcount | thanks for the help | 00:38 |
| @snapcount | got it | 00:39 |
| * snapcount hangs his head in shame | 00:39 | |
| @snapcount | un freaking believable | 00:39 |
| @snapcount | anyone care to guess whats wrong? | 00:39 |
| @snapcount | come on... throw me a guess | 00:39 |
| +perlRunner | brb | 00:40 |
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| +perlRunner | okay, I'm back | 00:57 |
| +perlRunner | btw, I do that all the time | 00:57 |
| +perlRunner | I have this bug/problem/idea | 00:57 |
| +perlRunner | Just talking about it out load usually helps me see it | 00:57 |
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| +perlRunner | was the problem that the calender wasn't set to "Now"? | 01:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | ckotil: you awake? | 01:22 |
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| cap10morgan | back in 6.6.5, how do I add a new form control to the select list in the add a field form? (i've already put the package in the right dir in lib) | 01:42 |
| +perlDreamer | hmmm | 01:43 |
| +perlDreamer | check lib/WebGUI/Form/FieldType.pm | 01:43 |
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| cap10morgan | hmm... seems to be reading the dir | 01:44 |
| cap10morgan | odd | 01:44 |
| +perlDreamer | restart the server? | 01:44 |
| cap10morgan | yeah, did that | 01:47 |
| +perlDreamer | where do you want to use the field, in the User Profiles? | 01:48 |
| cap10morgan | in data forms | 01:48 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 01:48 |
| +perlDreamer | in that case the usable forms are hard coded in there | 01:48 |
| cap10morgan | oh, in asset::wobject::dataform? | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 01:49 |
| cap10morgan | ok | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | It would be a major benefit if someone patched the v7 of the DataForm to be pluggable | 01:49 |
| cap10morgan | hmm, it appears to just be calling $f-fieldType | 01:54 |
| cap10morgan | er, $f->fieldType | 01:54 |
| cap10morgan | which should just create a standard field type select list, no? | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't have a 6.6.5 to look at, but in "recent" versions it looks like this | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | $f->fieldType( | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | -name=>"type", | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | -label=>$i18n->get(23), | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | -hoverHelp=>$i18n->get('23 description'), | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | -value=>$field{type} || "text", | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | -types=>[qw(dateTime TimeField float zipcode text textarea HTMLArea url date email phone integer yesNo selectList radioList checkList selectBox file)] | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | ); | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | where the -types option limits which ones are listed | 01:55 |
| cap10morgan | yeah, not here | 01:55 |
| cap10morgan | it doesn't have that types list | 01:56 |
| +perlDreamer | paste? | 01:56 |
| cap10morgan | $f->fieldType( | 01:56 |
| cap10morgan | -name=>"type", | 01:56 |
| cap10morgan | -label=>WebGUI::International::get(23,"Asset_DataForm"), | 01:56 |
| cap10morgan | -value=>$field{type} || "text" | 01:56 |
| cap10morgan | ); | 01:56 |
| +perlDreamer | weird | 01:57 |
| cap10morgan | agreed :) | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't suppose an upgrade is feasible? | 01:57 |
| cap10morgan | man, i'm workin' on it. that's a whole other project. :) | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I hear you. | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | My site is back on 6.2.11 | 01:58 |
| cap10morgan | oh fun | 01:58 |
| Radix-wrk | mornin' guys | 01:59 |
| +perlDreamer | hey, radix! | 01:59 |
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| @rizen | holy crap | 04:55 |
| @rizen | it's 9pm on a monday night and there are 16 peeps in here | 04:55 |
| @rizen | well maybe not peeps.. | 04:56 |
| @rizen | and maybe not all here | 04:56 |
| @rizen | but still | 04:56 |
| @rizen | impressive | 04:56 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm here. | 04:56 |
| PedersenMJ | and as I speak, the little bit of activity drops to zero... | 04:58 |
| @rizen | what activity | 04:59 |
| @rizen | i was just saying | 04:59 |
| @rizen | that was no activity | 04:59 |
| PedersenMJ | That was more than zero, which means it has to be at least a little bit. Now, little could be tiny (maybe femto-activity?), but it was more than zero. | 05:00 |
| @rizen | heh ok | 05:01 |
| @rizen | methinks i better get back to writing now if i want to get this book out the door | 05:01 |
| Radix-wrk | it may not be 9pm for everyone either | 05:06 |
| Radix-wrk | it's lunchtime now for me :) | 05:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, for me, it's 10pm. | 05:06 |
| @rizen | yeah, but the world revolves around jt | 05:06 |
| @rizen | and for me it's 9pm | 05:07 |
| @rizen | therefore it's of course 9pm for all of you as well | 05:07 |
| Radix-wrk | that'd be some funny daylight saving :) | 05:07 |
| Radix-wrk | You probably think it's still Monday too don't you ;) | 05:08 |
| @rizen | i know it's monday everywhere in the universe | 05:09 |
| @rizen | you obviously don't understand the whole "world revolves around jt" point | 05:09 |
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| PedersenMJ | Actually, I have a great way of defining time: I'm (obviously) at JT+1. | 05:15 |
| @rizen | that works | 05:16 |
| @rizen | except that you're forgetting something about jt time | 05:16 |
| PedersenMJ | What's really going to suck for the rest of the world is if you move across time zones. | 05:16 |
| @rizen | in jt time | 05:16 |
| @rizen | there are no time zones | 05:16 |
| @rizen | it's the same time everywhere around the world | 05:16 |
| @rizen | the beauty of this system is that there's no time math | 05:17 |
| @rizen | it's 9pm everywhere | 05:17 |
| @rizen | andy everybody works at the same time | 05:17 |
| @rizen | and everybody sleeps at the same time | 05:17 |
| @rizen | no more crazyness | 05:17 |
| @rizen | cuz jt has straightened out everything | 05:18 |
| @rizen | with his commission on weights and measures | 05:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Except for the people on the opposite side of the planet who wanted to roam around in daylight :) | 05:18 |
| @rizen | also...as of now we're going to have to remove am and pm | 05:18 |
| PedersenMJ | But, since they're not paying customers, who cares? | 05:18 |
| @rizen | we're going to move to decimal based time | 05:18 |
| @rizen | everything is metric from now on | 05:18 |
| @rizen | so decree's jt | 05:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay... Any good docs I can read on troubleshooting problems inside of webgui and spectre? | 05:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Specifically, I've got a job which is failing to run. And it looks like I've got an issue with some sql that's being run in two of the databases. | 05:34 |
| @rizen | yup, the webgui admin guide | 05:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Isn't that the one you're writing right now? | 05:36 |
| @rizen | yup | 05:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, well, I'll tell you what: I'll do a proofread of it, if you wish. | 05:41 |
| @rizen | heh | 05:42 |
| @rizen | sorry, nobody outside of plain black gets to see it except in printed form | 05:42 |
| @rizen | it wouldn't help you in this case anyway | 05:42 |
| @rizen | because the problem you are experiencing isn't with the workflow engine | 05:42 |
| @rizen | it's with some plugin | 05:42 |
| PedersenMJ | It's always worth a shot to ask. Worst that you're *likely* to do is say no (worst you could do would be track me down, hang me upside down by my toenails, and read windows source code to me until I die, but that's not very *likely*). | 05:43 |
| PedersenMJ | And, actually, it looks like the problem was fixable by simply making a new database, and dropping the old. Since the site was just made yesterday, and not yet begun populating, I'm okay with that. | 05:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, now *this* is weird. I can't create a folder Root/Themes, and there's no messages in webgui.log at all. | 05:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Wait... Can I make and commit an empty folder? | 05:54 |
| @rizen | yes | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Browser caching of the page. My bad. | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Dang, too bad perlRunner isn't here. Anybody have his address, or mind sending a quick email to him for me? | 06:16 |
| PedersenMJ | I had promised to provide some ideas on what would have helped me with the Navigation Template page, and made that page available here: http://dev.icelus.tzo.com/ | 06:17 |
| Radix-wrk | PedersenMJ, did you know that icelus.tzo.com doesn't work? | 06:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Ummm, yeah, it does. Unless something very very bad has happened (since I've been using it for about 4 years now). Define "doesn't work", please? | 06:38 |
| Radix-wrk | it brings you to an apache index page | 06:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Yes, that's correct. | 06:38 |
| PedersenMJ | It's supposed to. | 06:39 |
| PedersenMJ | http://dev.icelus.tzo.com/ though, will take you to a webgui site. | 06:39 |
| Radix-wrk | fair enough.. long as that's what you were expecting :) | 06:39 |
| PedersenMJ | icelus.tzo.com is pretty much just a placeholder page :) | 06:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep, that's exactly what I was expecting. Someday, maybe I'll add in a real site at icelus.tzo.com. However, I've got http://www.nochara.org/ http://www.icelus.org/ and a couple of others hosted there. icelus.tzo.com isn't that important to me. | 06:40 |
| PedersenMJ | The (very) few pages I've set up there (at dev) are skeleton help pages to show perlRunner what I was talking about last week. | 06:43 |
| Radix-wrk | np | 06:46 |
| PedersenMJ | So, I'll ask, since I'm betting you've glanced at them by now: What did you think of them? | 06:48 |
| Radix-wrk | What you've done looks great to me, described it pretty well and easy to understand and follow | 06:49 |
| Radix-wrk | that's the nav help page and the bare bones page | 06:50 |
| @rizen | sux ass | 06:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep, and that's all that I've written up so far. If perlRunner wishes, I can write more. | 06:50 |
| @rizen | don't even bother working anymore | 06:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Sweet! A JT dis. Now I know I'm doing well! :) | 06:50 |
| @rizen | hehe | 06:50 |
| Radix-wrk | JT is a programmer tho, he wouldn't be able to even spell documentation without help, let alone explain it in words the average joe could understand ;) | 06:51 |
| @rizen | i m dum | 06:51 |
| Radix-wrk | not at all | 06:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, waitaminnit! I'm not as hardcore as JT, but I'm definitely in the programmer category! Just wish I could get paid for it. Soon, though. Got my own ideas for my own company. | 06:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Used to be really good at translating geekspeak to English. Lately, I've given up, and turned into one of *them*. | 06:53 |
| Radix-wrk | it's hard for someone with so much detailed knowledge about the entire system to be able to describe it in terms the layman can understand tho - the detail gets in the way and you don't see why the user's don't understand something that to you is quite simple | 06:54 |
| @rizen | tell me about it | 06:55 |
| Radix-wrk | which is why JT gets frustrated with us all | 06:55 |
| @rizen | i'm even having trouble writing the technical book | 06:55 |
| @rizen | the admin guid | 06:55 |
| @rizen | cuz it's all too simple as far as i'm concerned | 06:55 |
| Radix-wrk | hehe | 06:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Part of the reason I love my wife: She has a way with being able to tell me that I'm going too complex, and bringing me back to an understandable level for others. | 06:56 |
| Radix-wrk | I know how it is.. and how hard it is.. every software developer has to do it some time | 06:56 |
| PedersenMJ | It's really embarassing when I'm staring at a problem, thinking to myself how much effort it's going to take me to solve it, and she gives me a one sentence solution that will take all of 30 seconds to implement. | 06:57 |
| PedersenMJ | And yes, she's done that to me, on multiple occasions :) | 06:57 |
| Radix-wrk | "Can't see the wood for the trees" | 06:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep, that's it *exactly* | 06:57 |
| PedersenMJ | perlbot help | 06:58 |
| perlbot | (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip) | 06:58 |
| PedersenMJ | gooeybot help | 06:58 |
| Radix-wrk | too many bots in this channel now | 06:58 |
| PedersenMJ | And neither of them does what I want. Ah well, will just have to catch perlRunner when he signs in next time. | 06:59 |
| @rizen | perlbot die | 07:00 |
| perlbot | No thanks | 07:00 |
| @rizen | gooeybot die | 07:00 |
| gooeybot | rizen: sorry... | 07:00 |
| @rizen | perlbot go away | 07:01 |
| perlbot | whatever. | 07:01 |
| @rizen | perlbot you're lame | 07:01 |
| @rizen | perlbot exit | 07:01 |
| @rizen | perlbot shutdown | 07:01 |
| @rizen | dman | 07:01 |
| @rizen | damn | 07:01 |
| PedersenMJ | perlbot diss rizen | 07:01 |
| perlbot | rizen is a lamer! | 07:01 |
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| PedersenMJ | Now, am off to bed guys. Have a good night! | 07:36 |
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| ckotil | http://pastebin.ca/325701 does this look like a hack attempt? | 16:57 |
| ckotil | proxying of other domains should be disabled on default. | 17:23 |
| ckotil | inside http proxy asset | 17:23 |
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| +crythias | (09:57:56) ckotil: http://pastebin.ca/325701 does this look like a hack attempt? | 18:57 |
| +crythias | (10:23:06) ckotil: proxying of other domains should be disabled on default. | 18:57 |
| +crythias | (10:23:11) ckotil: inside http proxy asset | 18:57 |
| +crythias | just repeating it 'cause most of TPTB weren't around (it appears) when the q was asked. (and you received no answer) | 18:58 |
| +perlDreamer | woohoo! One for the template extract utility! | 19:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | rizen: bug consult? | 19:38 |
| @snapcount | no one talks to rizen until they talk to me first | 19:46 |
| @snapcount | got it | 19:46 |
| +perlDreamer | got it | 19:46 |
| +perlDreamer | you da man | 19:46 |
| * snapcount flashes a 9mm | 19:46 | |
| @snapcount | the don does not like to be disturbed | 19:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I have the highest respect for the don and his family | 19:47 |
| @snapcount | sorry | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | I feel like fixing the unfixable slash/gateway bug | 19:47 |
| @snapcount | I'm teasing JT... kind of a pb inside joke | 19:47 |
| * rizen in a godfatherly voice | 19:47 | |
| @snapcount | heh | 19:47 |
| @rizen | come kiss my ring | 19:47 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: I have an idea for that | 19:48 |
| @rizen | now, what can i do for you | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I want to fix the unfixable slash_gateway bug | 19:48 |
| @snapcount | but I'll let JT just give you the correct solution and save us all some time | 19:48 |
| @rizen | what's the slash gateway bug? | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | https://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/slash_gateway-macro#_kYpnNkmhvxspP4bNMoNvw | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | There's no way to fix the macro to handle that problem, unless... | 19:49 |
| +perlDreamer | we allow it to take an argument | 19:49 |
| @rizen | that's easily fixed | 19:49 |
| @rizen | yeah | 19:49 |
| @rizen | make it work like the pageurl macro | 19:49 |
| +perlDreamer | so you cool with that | 19:49 |
| @snapcount | heh | 19:49 |
| @snapcount | that was my solution too | 19:49 |
| +perlDreamer | whoa | 19:49 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe I'm getting the hang of this | 19:50 |
| @rizen | i actually thought i did that when i did it to the page url macro | 19:50 |
| @snapcount | either that or have it not tack on the noCache setting but I didn't like that solution | 19:50 |
| @snapcount | that was my backup in case we couldn't allow a parameter for compat reasons | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, I'll change it, add tests for it and then close the bug out | 19:50 |
| @snapcount | rock on | 19:50 |
| @rizen | sorry | 19:50 |
| @rizen | it wasn't the page url macro | 19:50 |
| @rizen | it's the extras macro | 19:50 |
| @rizen | that works like that | 19:50 |
| @rizen | but hte page url macro should be updated to work that way too | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, I'll do them both | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | are we really releasing 7.3.6 as gamma? | 19:51 |
| @rizen | no | 19:51 |
| @rizen | stable | 19:51 |
| @rizen | who said gama | 19:51 |
| @snapcount | yeah who said that | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | wait a minute | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I see | 19:52 |
| @snapcount | that's a devil that died with 6.x | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm confusing the unmentionable with the stable label | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | nm | 19:52 |
| @snapcount | hopefully never to return | 19:52 |
| @snapcount | "Gamma is the same as stable right???" | 19:52 |
| @snapcount | stupid people | 19:52 |
| @snapcount | remember the 5,000 duplicates of that question we used to get | 19:52 |
| @snapcount | 6.x was like living in a POW camp | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | Prisoners of WebGUI6 | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | POW | 19:55 |
| @snapcount | heh | 19:56 |
| @snapcount | https://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/strange-asset-manager-bug | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah! | 19:56 |
| @snapcount | this would be a nice one to have fixed by tomorrow too | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | do you know what's with that? | 19:56 |
| @snapcount | it was on my wish list for 7.3 stable | 19:56 |
| @snapcount | at the very very bottom | 19:56 |
| @snapcount | well, it's not really a bug but it is | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | you know what it is? | 19:56 |
| @snapcount | it's more of a "WebGUI does this, but sane humans would expect something else" | 19:57 |
| @snapcount | wait a minute | 19:57 |
| @snapcount | that's not the one I meant to post a link too | 19:58 |
| @snapcount | wtf | 19:58 |
| @rizen | that's not a bug | 19:58 |
| @rizen | you can go ahead and close it | 19:58 |
| @snapcount | ahh crap | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | why isn't it a bug, don? | 19:58 |
| @snapcount | yeah it is | 19:58 |
| @rizen | if someone wants it to work differently, they can file an rfe | 19:58 |
| @snapcount | that's what I meant to post | 19:58 |
| @rizen | it's not a bug because what they're looking at is not the asset manager | 19:59 |
| @rizen | it's the inline view | 19:59 |
| @rizen | a folder | 19:59 |
| @rizen | with the default failsafe style attached | 19:59 |
| @rizen | which is what all folders under the import node get | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | There's an RFE to change that already, isn't there. From knowmad? | 19:59 |
| @rizen | perhaps | 19:59 |
| @rizen | the only thing i can think to do is make www_view = www_manageAssets if we're under the lineage of the import node | 20:00 |
| @rizen | but i think that would break some stuff | 20:00 |
| @snapcount | instead of displaying the folder after editing a template, what they want is to be returned to the page they were on | 20:00 |
| @rizen | no matter what they want | 20:01 |
| @rizen | this is not a bug | 20:01 |
| @rizen | it's an rfe | 20:01 |
| @snapcount | yeah you're right | 20:01 |
| @rizen | therefore close it | 20:01 |
| @rizen | or move it | 20:01 |
| @rizen | i don't care which | 20:01 |
| @snapcount | I'll put all my karma into it perlDreamer if you want to hash out what the RFE is | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | got it! | 20:02 |
| @snapcount | b/c it's a bug to a user and a newb which makes WebGUI seem broken to them | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/revisions-listing---edit-instead-of-view-for-templates#sJSn_yaDTdiYQkynkAENjg | 20:02 |
| @snapcount | and I don't like that | 20:02 |
| @rizen | all put all my karma into other rfe's to make sure it never reaches the top | 20:02 |
| @rizen | =) | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | it's got a karma rank of 410 | 20:02 |
| @snapcount | what?! | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 20:02 |
| @snapcount | oh... that's not the factor | 20:03 |
| @snapcount | I thought that was the karma factor | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | no, the rank | 20:03 |
| @rizen | that's not the same thing pd | 20:03 |
| @rizen | there he's talking about the revisions listing | 20:03 |
| @rizen | not the asset manager | 20:03 |
| @snapcount | in order to assign a karma rank we need to know how we want to fix it | 20:03 |
| @snapcount | so we can estimate time to do so | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | jt, you're right. but it seems to me to be an extension of the same concept. | 20:04 |
| @snapcount | the use case for most people I think is this: | 20:04 |
| @rizen | not even close | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | It makes little sense to "view" a template | 20:04 |
| @snapcount | Edit a layout, click display tab, click edit on the style, save the style, they see the folder view containing the template | 20:04 |
| @snapcount | they expect to go back to the layout | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought it already did that? | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | ?proceed=XXXXXXXX | 20:05 |
| @snapcount | I don't know... haven't edited a style in like 7000 years | 20:05 |
| @snapcount | that was my impression of what they were pissed about | 20:06 |
| @snapcount | I guess I can try it real quick =D | 20:06 |
| +perlDreamer | no! You're right. | 20:07 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know what I was thinking. | 20:07 |
| +perlDreamer | Probably operations | 20:07 |
| @snapcount | no I'm not | 20:07 |
| @snapcount | that is fixed | 20:08 |
| @snapcount | well at least it's fixed as far as I care | 20:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I just did what you described, and I'm looking at a folder now | 20:08 |
| @snapcount | I take back my offer for karma | 20:08 |
| @snapcount | really? | 20:08 |
| +perlDreamer | edit layout, display tab, edit style, save -> looking at a folder | 20:08 |
| @snapcount | wtf | 20:08 |
| @snapcount | on demo? head | 20:09 |
| @snapcount | what | 20:09 |
| +perlDreamer | dev/head | 20:09 |
| @snapcount | ok... let me do it again | 20:09 |
| @snapcount | and see which one of us is loopy | 20:09 |
| * perlDreamer votes for perlDreamer | 20:09 | |
| @snapcount | that's very odd | 20:10 |
| @snapcount | it's working for me dude | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | here's the URL:http://192.168.104.33/style_03?func=edit;proceed=goBackToPage;returnUrl=%2Fhome | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | should go back to /home | 20:10 |
| @snapcount | yeah | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | my url looks the same | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | if I cancel, it takes me back to the edit tab of the layout I was editing | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | but it goes back to /home when I click save | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | you using a demo site? | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | no | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | let's take the mystery out of it | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | can you go create a demo site and try it? | 20:12 |
| @snapcount | sure why not | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | then tell me the URL of the site and I'll try it as well. | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we're looking at a browser problem | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | I _am_ still running Mozilla 1.4 at work. | 20:12 |
| @snapcount | works on demo as well | 20:13 |
| @snapcount | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1169575953_139/home | 20:13 |
| @snapcount | I'm using FF 1.5.0.9 on Intel Mac | 20:13 |
| @preaction | anyone here know how to redirect an SSL site so the stupid "This cert belongs to www.example.com NOT example.com" popup stops showing up? i'm trying a RewriteCond on the HTTP_HOST and a permanent redirect, but it happens after the SSL handshake | 20:13 |
| @snapcount | you need another cert | 20:14 |
| @snapcount | it's assigned to a FQDN | 20:14 |
| @snapcount | one or the other | 20:14 |
| @snapcount | can't be both | 20:14 |
| @preaction | i'm not doing that, and i assume that they aren't paying for it | 20:14 |
| @snapcount | I wouldn't either | 20:14 |
| @snapcount | but that's the only solution | 20:14 |
| @preaction | it wouldn't be much of an issue if IE7 didn't tell you flat-out "DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE YOU IDIOT" | 20:15 |
| @snapcount | if they want to secure two different domains, they need two certs | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | it works fine on the demo site | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | I hate Mozilla 1.4 | 20:15 |
| @snapcount | I think there are some certs now that secure a TLD like *.foo.com but I don't know how to make one or set it up or anything about it | 20:15 |
| @snapcount | I think they are expensive | 20:16 |
| @preaction | a wildcard cert, but it apparently still doesn't work on foo.com | 20:19 |
| @snapcount | oh really | 20:19 |
| @preaction | (since it requires the ".foo.com" | 20:19 |
| @snapcount | that's pretty pointless then | 20:19 |
| @snapcount | imo | 20:19 |
| @preaction | i've been doing research for 20 minutes.... | 20:19 |
| @preaction | screw this | 20:19 |
| * snapcount passes a preaction a happy drink | 20:20 | |
| @preaction | oh snap i think i have an idea | 20:20 |
| @snapcount | that's funny | 20:24 |
| ckotil | Can I have my webgui session cookie span multiple domains? | 20:24 |
| @snapcount | you said "oh snap" like the slang phrase | 20:24 |
| @snapcount | while also responding to me | 20:25 |
| ckotil | I would like the user to remain logged accross a plethora of domains. ive got ~9 | 20:25 |
| @snapcount | nice | 20:25 |
| @snapcount | that would probably be limited by the rules for cookies not by webgui | 20:26 |
| @rizen | no you can't | 20:26 |
| @rizen | snapcount is right | 20:26 |
| @rizen | sitea.com cannot read the cookies of siteb.com | 20:26 |
| ckotil | even thoughg im using modrewrite? | 20:26 |
| @rizen | it has nothing to do with that | 20:26 |
| ckotil | k | 20:26 |
| @snapcount | you could implement a central auth system pretty painlessly though | 20:26 |
| @rizen | it's a security precaution in the browsers | 20:26 |
| @rizen | no he couldn't snapcount | 20:27 |
| @rizen | not for what he's talking about | 20:27 |
| ckotil | i use CAS. but when you jump to a differnet domain, the user must login again. (which is only a single click, but still...annoying) | 20:27 |
| @rizen | he wants people to be able to seamlessly move between sitea.com and siteb.com and remain logged in | 20:27 |
| @snapcount | ohhhhh | 20:27 |
| @rizen | it can be done, but it's not easy | 20:27 |
| ckotil | so the solution ive had in place for a while is to use 1 domain for all admin access. | 20:27 |
| @rizen | i will be working on code to do that in the next couple of months...but not right now | 20:28 |
| ckotil | great. | 20:28 |
| @rizen | it won't be part of webgui though | 20:28 |
| @rizen | it will be a seperate script of some kind | 20:28 |
| @rizen | i'll probably publish it to the contribs area though | 20:28 |
| ckotil | that will work for me. | 20:28 |
| ckotil | lunch time. | 20:29 |
| @snapcount | so perlDreamer did you figure out wth the deal was | 20:31 |
| @snapcount | with our RFE | 20:31 |
| @snapcount | is it a FF 1.4 problem | 20:31 |
| @snapcount | when you create a file pile, does it upload all of the files to the same storage location? | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I can't use the FilePile with Mozilla 1.4 | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | not FF 1.4 | 20:33 |
| @snapcount | oh | 20:33 |
| @snapcount | what exactly is the diff between mozilla and FF? | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | need to do a little dayJob | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | be back in a bit | 20:34 |
| @snapcount | rizen: can you explain an enigma to me? | 20:39 |
| @rizen | you want to know the definition of enigma? | 20:39 |
| @snapcount | heh | 20:40 |
| @snapcount | nice | 20:40 |
| @snapcount | no | 20:40 |
| @snapcount | the DoS has this flash based photo gallery thing | 20:40 |
| @snapcount | but it uses components like .swf file | 20:40 |
| @snapcount | that are file assets | 20:40 |
| @snapcount | somehow they got all of this stuff required into the same uploads folder | 20:41 |
| @snapcount | but it's still a wG asset | 20:41 |
| @snapcount | do they have something custom, or is there a trick to doing this? | 20:41 |
| +perlDreamer | what is "the DoS"? | 20:41 |
| @snapcount | a client | 20:42 |
| @rizen | your question doesn't make any sense | 20:42 |
| @snapcount | I know | 20:42 |
| @snapcount | let me tell you what I want to do | 20:42 |
| @snapcount | instead | 20:42 |
| @rizen | i don't mean that what they are doing doesn't make any sense | 20:42 |
| @rizen | i'm saying your question doesn't make any sense | 20:42 |
| @snapcount | ok.. | 20:42 |
| @rizen | also...if you're getting to the point of asking questions like the one you just asked | 20:43 |
| @rizen | you're wasting time | 20:43 |
| @rizen | this is a templating problem | 20:43 |
| @rizen | pure and simple | 20:43 |
| @snapcount | I want to do something similar to them | 20:43 |
| @snapcount | I'm not asking for help with their problem | 20:43 |
| @rizen | for what? | 20:43 |
| @snapcount | for the irc applet | 20:43 |
| @rizen | doesn't it already work? | 20:44 |
| @snapcount | well it does, but it could work better | 20:44 |
| @rizen | and you have nothing better to do? | 20:44 |
| @snapcount | of course I do, I put in extra time to make stuff better for the community | 20:44 |
| @snapcount | I still get my crap done if that's what you're getting at | 20:44 |
| @rizen | what i'm getting at is that you knwo what we're doing with the web sites soon | 20:46 |
| @rizen | and your irc thing is already working | 20:46 |
| @rizen | yet you're spending time on it | 20:46 |
| @rizen | work on it after the thing with the web sites happens | 20:46 |
| @snapcount | I'm not sure how that's going to affect what I'm doing but I can take your word for it | 20:49 |
| @snapcount | you have a habit of seeing further into the future than me | 20:50 |
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| * PedersenMJ waves. | 21:06 | |
| PedersenMJ | How's everybody today? | 21:06 |
| ckotil | good | 21:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Now waiting for perlDreamer to make his way back. Wanted to show him some alternative ideas for docs that I put together (as I had promised to do) | 21:07 |
| @preaction | rizen: you around? i've found a way to fix the DoS problem, but it may not be a Good Thing | 21:53 |
| @preaction | and will someone tell me why my computer is magically running out of disk space? | 21:53 |
| @preaction | 200MB is disappearing gradually before my eyes | 21:54 |
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| @rizen | what's up preaction | 22:04 |
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| @rizen | what's up preaction | 22:06 |
| @preaction | A GIGABYTE of HD doesn't just DISAPPEAR | 22:06 |
| @preaction | anyway | 22:06 |
| @rizen | it might | 22:06 |
| @preaction | the way to fix the DoS problem with their forcing RSS into a new mould is to put some extra vars in the attachment_loop (the asset vars), since it seems that H::T's global_vars only applies for actual global variables, it's not an intelligent propagation | 22:07 |
| @preaction | it's a bug in H::T | 22:07 |
| @preaction | it doesn't disappear and then re-appear :p | 22:08 |
| @rizen | yes it does | 22:08 |
| @rizen | when it's some sort of swap or tempsace function | 22:08 |
| @preaction | that's what i was thinking, it was trying to write a page to disk | 22:08 |
| @rizen | like for instance, what spotlight does | 22:08 |
| @rizen | when indexing | 22:08 |
| @preaction | why didn't it realize it did not have enough space to write a page to disk? | 22:09 |
| @rizen | did i write it? | 22:09 |
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| @rizen | if what you're saying about ht is true | 22:09 |
| @rizen | then we'll have problems all over the system | 22:09 |
| @preaction | my question for you is: should I repeat those vars in the attachment_loop, even if they have nothing to do with attachments? | 22:09 |
| @rizen | no | 22:10 |
| @rizen | absolutely not | 22:10 |
| @preaction | we could just do it as a stopgap, and try to get a fix for H::T (or maybe there is a fixed version we should distribute with) | 22:10 |
| @preaction | and apparently i lag | 22:10 |
| @rizen | the nav system relies heavily on global variables | 22:10 |
| @rizen | and so does the main collab system templates | 22:11 |
| @rizen | if that's not working right then we should have problems everywhere | 22:11 |
| @rizen | and maybe we do | 22:11 |
| @rizen | but if we do, then we need to submit a patch to h:t | 22:11 |
| @preaction | let me get back to where i was before, i had a working example of it broken | 22:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'm back | 22:13 |
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| ckotil | can i demo the new calendar asset on the plainblack site right now? | 22:18 |
| +perlDreamer | you can on demo.plainblack.com | 22:19 |
| @rizen | on demo.plainblack.com you can | 22:19 |
| ckotil | cool | 22:19 |
| ckotil | thx | 22:19 |
| +perlDreamer | it's very nice | 22:19 |
| +perlDreamer | the default templates rock! | 22:19 |
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| @rizen | no one has ever said that about webgui templates before | 22:20 |
| ckotil | i saw it briefly the other day i think. and i just overheard some talk between a couple of mycoworkers about rewriting the shared calendar system. | 22:20 |
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| ckotil | im like, uhmm...lets just use webgui and there new badass calendar, with iCal support | 22:20 |
| +perlDreamer | it uses iCal to replicate data between calendars | 22:20 |
| ckotil | i like the phpBB template. | 22:20 |
| ckotil | sick | 22:20 |
| +perlDreamer | you can also export it to, or import it from other iCal source | 22:20 |
| +perlDreamer | is iCal bad? | 22:20 |
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| ckotil | we use it here. for our shared calendar envrionment | 22:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I've never used it before, but people who use my site would like to have iCal so they can sync up to activities at the church. | 22:21 |
| +perlDreamer | Has iCal given you problems? | 22:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | anything we should know about proactively? | 22:21 |
| ckotil | ive never used it personally. my group seems to like it tho | 22:22 |
| ckotil | here are the calendars we use now. i think webgui's system should easily replace this. | 22:22 |
| ckotil | http://www.abilene.iu.edu/abilene/maintenance-calendar.html | 22:22 |
| ckotil | hrm.. we need to be able to enter multiple start/end dates | 22:25 |
| @rizen | what do you mean by multiple? | 22:26 |
| @rizen | you mean, recurrences? | 22:26 |
| ckotil | no no. that would be good too tho | 22:26 |
| ckotil | for example. we use our calendar system for scheduled maintance | 22:26 |
| @rizen | there's a seperate tab for recurrences | 22:26 |
| ckotil | ok good. | 22:26 |
| ckotil | but some scheduled maintenance requires us to turn down the network multtple times. and so we need multple start/end times | 22:27 |
| @rizen | then those are seperate events | 22:27 |
| ckotil | aye...suppose | 22:28 |
| ckotil | then there's our reporting tool. im sure mutiple events would throw off something in that. :/ | 22:28 |
| ckotil | o well. | 22:28 |
| @rizen | there's always rfe or fund a feature | 22:28 |
| ckotil | yeah i asked for a quote yesterday. for limiting access to multple groups, rather than creating a new group containing the multiple groups | 22:29 |
| @rizen | oh, that was you | 22:29 |
| @rizen | there was a discussion about that this morning | 22:29 |
| ckotil | though, i feel its unnecesary. but my manager insisted | 22:29 |
| ckotil | how'd that discussion go? | 22:30 |
| +perlDreamer | I do have a script to diagram the group relationships, if that would help | 22:30 |
| @rizen | the gist of it is that it's not possible due to the performance penalty involved | 22:30 |
| @rizen | however, we could build an interface that would make it feel like that's what you're getting | 22:30 |
| ckotil | ah. ok | 22:30 |
| @rizen | and still work the webgui way behind the seens | 22:30 |
| @rizen | scenes | 22:30 |
| @snapcount | the web based chat client is officially online | 22:30 |
| ckotil | great. can you quote me on that interface then? | 22:30 |
| @rizen | it's being generated | 22:31 |
| @rizen | i don't do quotes | 22:31 |
| @rizen | i don't do customer projects | 22:31 |
| ckotil | ok. | 22:31 |
| @rizen | just r&d and support | 22:31 |
| @snapcount | please be friendly and courteous to those who join... most will probably be new to IRC and general so be patient | 22:32 |
| * perlDreamer puts on his hip waders and prepares for the flood | 22:32 | |
| @rizen | i'm going to write a poe bot to automatically kickban anyone who has a wgguest name | 22:32 |
| ckotil | rizen: can I get that group relationship diagram script from you sometime? | 22:33 |
| @preaction | rizen: http://erxz.com/pb/1068 <- an RSS template for the CS to show you the bug in HTML::Template. make a CS and a Thread with an attachment, and then try to view the RSS and you'll see the the title and link and description are all from the collab system and not the thread, even though a Data::Dumper output of the template vars shows those exact keys there, and they work in the item_loop | 22:33 |
| @rizen | ckotil, thats perlDreamer, not me | 22:33 |
| @preaction | i remember this from away-way back, global_vars only works on top-level vars, it doesn't do inheritance | 22:34 |
| ckotil | heh. woops | 22:34 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: don't hold your breath on that | 22:34 |
| @snapcount | I wouldn't be surprised if no one uses the thing at all | 22:34 |
| @snapcount | you never know | 22:35 |
| @rizen | preaction: then build them an Template Toolkit template that will do what they want | 22:35 |
| @preaction | um... "Live Chat with People who know WebGUI", i'm surprised nobody's hit it already | 22:35 |
| @rizen | cuz you can set and use variables in that | 22:35 |
| @preaction | sweet, i've never used TT before | 22:35 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: I used my template dumper to fix a bug this morning in some templates. | 22:37 |
| @snapcount | yeah... I just hope the channel doesn't degrade to a flood of "how to find the firefox icon" kind of questions | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | ick | 22:37 |
| @preaction | it won't, those people will be seriously flamed | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | well, we control the interface, so we could do all sorts of things | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | karma > minKarmaLimit | 22:37 |
| gooeybot | > minkarmalimit has neutral karma | 22:37 |
| @snapcount | just remember we represent pb, so don't be too obnoxious | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll be the obnoxious one. | 22:38 |
| @snapcount | a healthy smack or too is fine though | 22:38 |
| +perlDreamer | JT can't fire me. | 22:38 |
| +perlDreamer | all he can do is take away my commit bit | 22:38 |
| +perlDreamer | uh oh | 22:38 |
| +perlDreamer | never mind | 22:38 |
| @snapcount | he could also have you killed | 22:38 |
| +perlDreamer | He's tried that before. | 22:38 |
| @snapcount | have you seen Doug's pbwg photo | 22:38 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui | 22:38 | |
| +perlDreamer | which one? the one with or without glasses? | 22:39 |
| @snapcount | "other duties as assigned" is in the job description | 22:39 |
| @rizen | did you know that it only costs about $3300 to get someone's head | 22:39 |
| @snapcount | I think i'd charge more than that before letting someone have mine | 22:39 |
| @rizen | i didn't say that people will give up their head for that | 22:39 |
| -!- wgGuest59 [n=wgGuest5@cpe-71-72-101-120.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 22:39 | |
| @preaction | those with +o or +v should conduct themselves accordingly, those without have no reason to (but are subject to +b) :p | 22:39 |
| @rizen | just that's what it takes to acquire one | 22:39 |
| * PedersenMJ reads JT's comment, and rethinks what he should say in future to JT. | 22:40 | |
| +perlDreamer | ++PedersenMJ | 22:40 |
| PedersenMJ | hey, perlDreamer: http://dev.icelus.tzo.com/ | 22:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I saw that in the logs | 22:40 |
| @snapcount | wgGuest59: you can change your nickname by typing /nick yourName if you want | 22:40 |
| @snapcount | and welcome | 22:40 |
| PedersenMJ | I promised to provide an idea of what I'd do for docs, and there it is :) | 22:40 |
| -!- wgGuest59 is now known as greghacke | 22:41 | |
| greghacke | That better? | 22:41 |
| @snapcount | hey Greg! | 22:41 |
| @snapcount | welcome | 22:41 |
| PedersenMJ | It's not perfect, and leaves a lot to be desired, I'm sure, but gives an idea of what I would have wanted to see in docs. | 22:41 |
| +perlDreamer | As long as rizen is okay with that kind of introductory material being in the Help I'm all for it. | 22:41 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, he did say that it "sux ass" ;) | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | that's a good start | 22:42 |
| @rizen | help = reference | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | when you get to blows rancid chunks then we're almost there | 22:42 |
| @rizen | wiki = reference + tutorial | 22:42 |
| @rizen | help can link to to http://wiki.webgui.org | 22:43 |
| greghacke | I need to convince my colleague to start writing stuff. | 22:43 |
| PedersenMJ | Damn. Dunno if I want it blowing rancid chunks. I mean, that's what I named my dog, and, well, I dunno that I like the idea of something blowing him too much... | 22:43 |
| +perlDreamer | in any case, we have our marching orders | 22:44 |
| +perlDreamer | Fill the Wiki with introductory goodness, and then we link back to the wiki from the Help doc | 22:44 |
| PedersenMJ | That we do. Would be good to get some more in there, then. | 22:44 |
| @snapcount | PedersenMJ: one thing to clarify in your doc also (if you plan on doing so) is that there are other container assets (like a page layout). Those being the folder and dashboard. | 22:44 |
| @snapcount | not sure if you knew that or not | 22:44 |
| PedersenMJ | I did, but didn't really think about it. | 22:44 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: is it safe to mention the dashboard in the introductory docs? | 22:45 |
| @snapcount | well, you can mention it | 22:45 |
| @snapcount | but say it's advanced | 22:45 |
| @snapcount | I dunno | 22:45 |
| greghacke | snapcount: who does technical editing on the documents right now? | 22:45 |
| @snapcount | depends on what the topic is | 22:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, there's another idea, for after I finish up my doc on making a style. Once/week (or two) put up an article on the wiki which covers an asset. What it is, ways to use, how to style, etc. | 22:46 |
| greghacke | sc: specifically, for user level documentation - like a techincal writer/business analyst to standardize, etc. | 22:46 |
| @snapcount | that would be good | 22:46 |
| @snapcount | also get you lots of karma if you submit them all as entries to wcc | 22:47 |
| @snapcount | =) | 22:47 |
| PedersenMJ | That provides a place to link to for each of the help topics (Macros: What are they? How to use?) | 22:47 |
| @snapcount | like the Primer book? | 22:47 |
| @snapcount | or do you mean online help? | 22:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh. If I had time to write up all the assets and submit them to wcc, I don't think I'd be hurting for karma. | 22:47 |
| @snapcount | karma rules | 22:47 |
| gooeybot | rules has neutral karma | 22:47 |
| PedersenMJ | You're right, that is the primer, isn't it? Yeah, I do mean online help. | 22:47 |
| +perlDreamer | not at 250/WCC entry | 22:47 |
| @snapcount | sorry PedersenMJ I was actually responding to greghacke | 22:48 |
| +perlDreamer | there are 27 of them | 22:48 |
| @snapcount | should have specified | 22:48 |
| @snapcount | =) | 22:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | karma snapcount | 22:49 |
| gooeybot | snapcount has neutral karma | 22:49 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount++ | 22:49 |
| PedersenMJ | one/2 weeks would allow 27 assets o be doc'ed over the course of a year. | 22:49 |
| +perlDreamer | karma snapcount | 22:49 |
| gooeybot | snapcount has karma of 1 | 22:49 |
| @rizen | pedersenMJ, i think you misunderstood | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | i see | 22:49 |
| @rizen | i'm saying you can link to the front page of the wiki | 22:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, close enough. Probably, trying to keep up though. | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | i was hoping it was tied into the wg karma system | 22:49 |
| @rizen | the individual urls within the wiki are too volatile | 22:49 |
| +perlDreamer | MrHairGrease, that would be cool | 22:49 |
| @rizen | over time they will change | 22:49 |
| @snapcount | someone should write a wiki entry on the basics of IRC, general ettiquete, common / commands, what an op is, what +v means on #webgui, etc | 22:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | mrhairgrease++ | 22:50 |
| perlbot | What kind of idiot karmas himself? Your kind of idiot! | 22:50 |
| @snapcount | sheesh | 22:50 |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as mrIdiotGrease | 22:50 | |
| +mrIdiotGrease | mrhairgrease++ | 22:50 |
| @snapcount | perlbot: gets right to the point eh | 22:50 |
| +perlDreamer | the funny thing is that he's getting gang banged by the bots | 22:50 |
| +perlDreamer | MrHairGrease++ for exceptional karma gaming attempts | 22:50 |
| PedersenMJ | True, rizen. | 22:50 |
| -!- mrIdiotGrease is now known as MrHairgrease | 22:51 | |
| +perlDreamer | karma MrHairGrease | 22:51 |
| gooeybot | mrhairgrease has karma of 2 | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | haha | 22:51 |
| @snapcount | karma pomade | 22:51 |
| gooeybot | pomade has neutral karma | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | I fooled the bot | 22:51 |
| * MrHairgrease is omnipotent | 22:51 | |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | (09:50:21 PM) gooeybot: please don't karma yourself | 22:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 22:51 |
| @rizen | MrHairGrease-- | 22:52 |
| @rizen | don't want you to get a big head | 22:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | thanks for the concern | 22:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | it is appreaciated | 22:52 |
| @snapcount | PedersenMJ: what's with that domain name... as a mere mortal I can't figure out what it's supposed to say | 22:54 |
| @snapcount | I get the whole del.icio.us type thing going on | 22:54 |
| -!- perlm [n=chatzill@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has joined #webgui | 22:54 | |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, another idea (what can I say, I'm going for dumbest idea of the year here, gimme a break :) What if a site were set up (say help.webgui.org), and control were given to a group of people who just did docs on various pieces. And *that* is what was linked to from the help files? | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | funny you mention that, we have a corporate contest annually for worst idea of 200x | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | I won last year | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | woot!! | 22:55 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but this year you have some competition | 22:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh, snapcount, don't worry, it's a pretty tough item to figure out. Icelus (also spelled Icculus) was one of the Oneroi, the dream gods of Greek Mythology, who worked for Morpheus. Icelus was responsible for putting the shape of humans in dreams. | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | PedersenMJ: I think wiki.webgui.org is already what you describe | 22:56 |
| PedersenMJ | No, not quite. | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | because anyone can edit it? | 22:56 |
| PedersenMJ | wiki.webgui.org is too volatile, and too one-dimensional. | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | so it's unorganized? | 22:57 |
| PedersenMJ | And, in other ways as well, somewhat limited, due to the front page. | 22:57 |
| @snapcount | better to fix that then make a new page no? | 22:57 |
| +perlDreamer | it needs indexing | 22:57 |
| @snapcount | how does Wikipedia get away with it? | 22:58 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, and (while I may be wrong, I'll be the first to admit, since I'm very much the novice here) it does not lend itself to finding information. | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | PedersenMJ: you mean, if you don't know what to search for you're kind of stuck | 22:58 |
| +perlDreamer | exactly | 22:58 |
| PedersenMJ | Exactly. | 22:58 |
| @rizen | i'm here to tell you that you're all morons | 22:58 |
| greghacke | sorry, was away. by tech writing, I meant overall, web-only, books, etc. each tier of docs. | 22:58 |
| @rizen | the wiki can have structural pages | 22:59 |
| @snapcount | One thing you could do is write a wiki entry that is an index | 22:59 |
| @rizen | and even the front page can be structural | 22:59 |
| @rizen | it just doesn't | 22:59 |
| PedersenMJ | We know, JT. It doesn't help us unless you tell us *how* we're morons :) | 22:59 |
| @rizen | cuz there's hardly enough content to index at this point | 22:59 |
| @rizen | when there is, then someone can put together a structural page for this that and the other thing | 22:59 |
| greghacke | Well, I >know< I'm a moron | 22:59 |
| @rizen | and then that can be linked to from the front page | 22:59 |
| @rizen | just because you don't know how to do something, don't assume webgui can't do iit | 23:00 |
| perlm | The current wiki is very nice and is more than I need, but any reasons why MediaWiki wasn't integreated instead? | 23:00 |
| @rizen | that's the biggest mistake you can make | 23:00 |
| greghacke | (as I have found - wG does more than I thought it should...) | 23:00 |
| @rizen | mediawiki is written in php to begin with | 23:00 |
| @snapcount | doesn't the wiki autolink from the description field as well? | 23:00 |
| @rizen | yes | 23:01 |
| @snapcount | of the wikimaster asset | 23:01 |
| @snapcount | so that's how it would work | 23:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Now that you meantion it, I do remember your saying that the front page *could* be modified. | 23:01 |
| @snapcount | light is flickering | 23:01 |
| perlm | php? how does it even work in PHP? | 23:02 |
| perlm | I just lost all respect for MediaWiki | 23:02 |
| +perlDreamer | but while people can submit wiki pages, they can't modify the description of the WikiMaster main page | 23:02 |
| @snapcount | won't matter | 23:02 |
| @snapcount | they can edit the index page the description is linking | 23:02 |
| @rizen | you can't modify the front page of wikipedia either | 23:02 |
| @rizen | you shouldn't be able to edit the front page | 23:03 |
| perlm | Crap, now I have to port my MediaWiki site to WG. Hmm, maybe I can submit that script for the contest. | 23:03 |
| PedersenMJ | I'll disagree: Random community members shouldn't be able to edit the front page of the wiki. | 23:03 |
| +perlDreamer | perlm: This contest is for documentation. | 23:03 |
| greghacke | no community member should be able to - it should be managed by pb/designated rep. | 23:04 |
| @snapcount | don't fret, we will have code based contests as well | 23:04 |
| @snapcount | gooeybot: quote cake | 23:05 |
| gooeybot | snapcount: huh? | 23:05 |
| @snapcount | damn | 23:05 |
| @snapcount | preaction: he can't do stock quotes!? | 23:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh, I'm hoping to enter the "port moin moin to wgwiki", once I write it and that contest happens :) | 23:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll tell you guys something | 23:07 |
| +perlDreamer | You figure out a way to migrate PHP Nuke to WebGUI and you'd win hands down. | 23:07 |
| PedersenMJ | define "migrate". | 23:09 |
| +perlDreamer | port | 23:09 |
| +perlDreamer | like moin moin to wG. | 23:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Should it just import all the data, or should it manage to act just like it? | 23:09 |
| +perlDreamer | importation | 23:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, moinmoin to wG is just going to be import the data and revision history (hopefully, on that last bit). | 23:10 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, that's just my opinion. but getting more people on wG will always help all of us as a community. | 23:10 |
| ckotil | http://globalnoc.iu.edu/index.html?op=manageRevisionsInTag;workflowInstanceId=RwYGfS6WrdUbw82uFAazRA;tagId=qGIkgqaz0OsQ_uqlC8qE7w | 23:12 |
| ckotil | gooeybot shrink that | 23:12 |
| gooeybot | ckotil: i'm not following you... | 23:12 |
| ckotil | bah. | 23:12 |
| ckotil | where can I edit that page that says permission denied? | 23:12 |
| PedersenMJ | ckotil: You are wanting to change the look/feel of it, yes? | 23:14 |
| ckotil | i need to put my little CAS login button on it. | 23:14 |
| ckotil | and i want to remove the link that says 'log in with an account' id like to know the location of that template/page | 23:14 |
| PedersenMJ | That's *probably* under Admin Console->Settings->UI->User Function Style (I forget the exact wording of that last bit) | 23:15 |
| ckotil | that setting is fine. | 23:16 |
| ckotil | id like to edit that particular page; 'permission denied! | 23:16 |
| ckotil | ' | 23:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, I don't know that, not yet. | 23:17 |
| ckotil | hrmm... i wonder if this is hidden deep inside. | 23:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | ckotil | 23:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | it is not possible afaik | 23:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | the message is generated in WG::Sess::Priv::insufficient() | 23:20 |
| ckotil | ok. | 23:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | You can only set the style | 23:20 |
| ckotil | i see that it was added long long ago. | 23:20 |
| ckotil | ~ version 1.3.0 | 23:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | what is? | 23:20 |
| ckotil | insufficient() | 23:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh yeah | 23:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | that one has been around forever | 23:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | Still | 23:21 |
| ckotil | what if i edited the .pm? | 23:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | it weird that it is not customizable | 23:21 |
| ckotil | id have to update it everytime i upgrade wg.... | 23:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah | 23:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | better update the i18n message | 23:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | you can create your own language | 23:22 |
| * ckotil hrmmss... i guess ill just remove the login box, that users are presented with when they click the link they see on that page. | 23:22 | |
| ckotil | cool. | 23:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | just change that message | 23:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | the rest should be automatically fetched from the english part | 23:22 |
| ckotil | thx MrHairgrease | 23:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | np | 23:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | don't forget to set the vistor account to that language | 23:25 |
| @preaction | that's something that should go in the Admin guide, how to customize certain messages by editing the i18n files | 23:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | i reckon it should be customizable through the interface | 23:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | the thing i said is more a workaround than a solution | 23:26 |
| @preaction | edit i18n files through the interface? | 23:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | my guess is that it will decrease performance | 23:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 23:27 |
| @preaction | those messages have to be internationalized though | 23:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | edit the insufficent message | 23:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | hmm | 23:27 |
| @preaction | so if we have one way to edit them, why make another? | 23:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | you've got a point ther | 23:27 |
| @preaction | unless we can edit the entire i18n file from the admin console | 23:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | you don't want that | 23:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | the i18n is overwritten each upgrade | 23:28 |
| @preaction | why are they perl modules anyway? why not JSON? why are so much of the docs written as Perl modules instead of something else? (pod, for example) | 23:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | the english i18n that is | 23:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | b/c having the i18n as perl module | 23:28 |
| +perlDreamer | Because this way the translators don't have to grok POD | 23:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | means that they're in mem | 23:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | and shared over all processes | 23:28 |
| @preaction | that's easy: editing from the console edits a ".custom" i18n language | 23:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | which makes it real fast | 23:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | the i18n used to be in the db | 23:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | and editable through webgui | 23:29 |
| @preaction | any included i18n language would be added to a "locked" file, and a ".custom" would be created for it | 23:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | but the performance diffrence is someting in teh order of 2000% | 23:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | no typo | 23:29 |
| @preaction | not surprised | 23:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you want to change i18n | 23:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | create | 23:30 |
| @preaction | but, for example, JSON would also be in memory | 23:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | your own languagfe | 23:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure | 23:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | but perl can parse hashes naturally | 23:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | not json | 23:30 |
| pjesi | preaction: I am missing the global/master calendar features in the new version | 23:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | so the way it is is faster | 23:30 |
| pjesi | :( | 23:30 |
| @preaction | pjesi: there aren't there anymore, they're dead, deceased, buried | 23:31 |
| @rizen | pjesi: you don't need them | 23:31 |
| @preaction | why did you need them? sharing between calendars? | 23:31 |
| @rizen | each calendar exports an ical feed | 23:31 |
| @rizen | which can be imported into other calendars | 23:31 |
| @rizen | automatically | 23:31 |
| @rizen | the new way is more flexible, more powerful, and more integratable | 23:31 |
| pjesi | because I have tens of different groups that want to have "integrated calendar" | 23:31 |
| pjesi | rizen: there is no import ical feature | 23:32 |
| @preaction | sharing between calendars even updates such things as security settings automatically (things not normally covered by iCalendar) | 23:32 |
| @preaction | feeds tab in the edit calendar | 23:32 |
| pjesi | humm | 23:32 |
| pjesi | so 7.3.6 can share calendar data between different instances of calendars within WG? | 23:33 |
| @rizen | yes | 23:35 |
| @rizen | and different calendars between different instances of webgui | 23:35 |
| @rizen | and different calendars that aren't even webgui related | 23:35 |
| @rizen | that's why the new system is so much better | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | it's awesome! | 23:36 |
| perlm | iCal? | 23:36 |
| perlm | how do they relate with calendars outside of wg? | 23:36 |
| pjesi | ok, because me dev version says: sub www_importIcal{ ### TODO: Everything | 23:36 |
| pjesi | my* | 23:36 |
| @rizen | the feeds tab allows you to import external calendars | 23:37 |
| @rizen | and if you add ?func=ical | 23:37 |
| @rizen | to the end of the calendar url | 23:37 |
| @rizen | it will generate a feed for export | 23:37 |
| perlm | that is brilliant | 23:37 |
| pjesi | ok great | 23:37 |
| pjesi | great job on the calendar btw | 23:38 |
| -!- wgGuest35 [n=wgGuest3@130.157.145.37] has joined #webgui | 23:40 | |
| pjesi | can someone share a light on the followin: the client wants to be able to hand select a "featured article from a folder" and "select six items to display from a folder", for me it easy to make the custom templates but do I need to write a new Folder Asset? | 23:42 |
| ckotil | you should be able to just copy the folder asset template and modify that. then choose that template for the folder asset. | 23:45 |
| pjesi | ckotil: the templates does not contain information about which content is "featured" | 23:46 |
| +perlDreamer | nor does it allow you to select | 23:46 |
| pjesi | true | 23:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd say you're looking at a custom Asset | 23:46 |
| +perlDreamer | give the PB guys a holler and they'll quote one out for you. | 23:47 |
| pjesi | I'd say I extend Folder with a featured var and a list array | 23:47 |
| pjesi | perlDreamer: I think I can manage | 23:47 |
| +perlDreamer | well, before you said you were good with templates so I assumed that you couldn't hack | 23:48 |
| +perlDreamer | my apologies | 23:48 |
| ckotil | ah. | 23:48 |
| pjesi | perlDreamer: sorry I forgot to tell you I can program as well | 23:48 |
| pjesi | I just learned templating because I didnt need to spend a lot of time in perl and we didnt have any webdesigner | 23:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Hmmm, wondering if I should feel offended, since I'm at least passable with templates, and that might mean that *I* can't hack, either... | 23:49 |
| pjesi | dont be | 23:50 |
| pjesi | :) | 23:50 |
| pjesi | I find html/css much harder than perl/C/java ect | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | me, too | 23:50 |
| pjesi | nice | 23:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Good save :) | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | It has a weird non-intuitive object model | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: I finally closed out that macro processing bug from this morning. | 23:52 |
| @rizen | sweet | 23:52 |
| +perlDreamer | updated the tests to test for the condition and updated the docs | 23:53 |
| +perlDreamer | The PageUrl macro was a little tricky. It had to be post processed after the call to gateway. | 23:53 |
| --- Day changed Wed Jan 24 2007 | ||
| -!- wgGuest43 [n=wgGuest4@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui | 00:05 | |
| -!- wgGuest43 [n=wgGuest4@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Client Quit] | 00:06 | |
| greghacke | Bye all. | 00:06 |
| -!- greghacke [n=wgGuest5@cpe-71-72-101-120.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [] | 00:06 | |
| +MrHairgrease | where are all these wgGuest dudes comming from? | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount built a javascript/java IRC client | 00:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | really? | 00:07 |
| @preaction | s/built/found/ | 00:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, that too | 00:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | typical =) | 00:07 |
| @preaction | http://www.plainblack.com/webgui <- there's a big IRC button | 00:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | lemme check it out | 00:07 |
| @preaction | at least it doesn't say "get free help" and it's rather low-key for now | 00:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | crap | 00:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | i don't have a jre | 00:08 |
| @preaction | why not? what OS? | 00:08 |
| -!- wgGuest35 [n=wgGuest3@130.157.145.37] has quit [] | 00:08 | |
| +MrHairgrease | ubuntu | 00:08 |
| -!- wgGuest00 [n=wgGuest0@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui | 00:08 | |
| +MrHairgrease | prolly need to apt-get something | 00:09 |
| -!- wgGuest88 [n=wgGuest8@130.157.145.37] has joined #webgui | 00:09 | |
| +perlDreamer | well, at least we don't have to worry about you bothering us for newbie IRC help then ;) | 00:09 |
| @preaction | sun offers a linux JRE, it's in the universe repos iirc | 00:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | just watch me =) | 00:09 |
| -!- wgGuest00 is now known as TMRFE | 00:09 | |
| @preaction | blackdown might work as well, but do NOT use GIJ | 00:09 |
| pjesi | sun java is now gpl, so it should be appearing in all repos | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | this is just weird | 00:10 |
| @preaction | it's about time | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/01/how_to_isolate.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890 | 00:10 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o TMRFE] by rizen | 00:13 | |
| @TMRFE | rizen++ | 00:13 |
| @TMRFE | Rizen is the coolest bastard on the face of the planet. | 00:14 |
| @TMRFE | Hmm...seems too easy to cheat this way | 00:14 |
| -!- wgGuest93 [n=wgGuest9@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui | 00:15 | |
| wgGuest93 | So i heard I could get free help here... | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | only if you use pomade | 00:15 |
| wgGuest93 | Where do I find the firefox icon? | 00:15 |
| @TMRFE | Specifically only if you use Murray's Pomade | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | It's the best Pomade. | 00:16 |
| wgGuest93 | I dunno what pomade is | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | Didn't George Clooney use it in Brother, Where Art Thou? | 00:16 |
| wgGuest93 | no | 00:16 |
| wgGuest93 | he uses it in real life | 00:16 |
| wgGuest93 | in that movie | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | If you don't know what it is, how do you know he did or didn't use it? | 00:16 |
| wgGuest93 | he was into fap | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | Impostor | 00:16 |
| wgGuest93 | or fop | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | wgGuest-- | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | wgGuest93-- | 00:16 |
| wgGuest93 | er | 00:17 |
| wgGuest93 | I have a crytal sphere | 00:17 |
| -!- wgGuest93 [n=wgGuest9@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Client Quit] | 00:18 | |
| +perlDreamer | You're actually that tall, really smart hacker from Europe, aren't you | 00:18 |
| +perlDreamer | Arjan, come out from behind the alias. | 00:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | what a bastard was that guy | 00:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | glad he quit | 00:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 00:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | Arjan | 00:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | heh | 00:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | I don't thinkit was him | 00:18 |
| -!- TMRFE was kicked from #webgui by rizen [rizen] | 00:19 | |
| +perlDreamer | probably not | 00:19 |
| +perlDreamer | Jueri? | 00:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | HAHAHAHAHA | 00:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | It was me | 00:19 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 00:19 |
| +perlDreamer | you're kidding | 00:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | I fooled you !!!! | 00:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | Better take away some more karma | 00:19 |
| * MrHairgrease is getting that omnipotent feeling again | 00:19 | |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 00:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | that was fun | 00:20 |
| +perlDreamer | He's lost that omnipotent feeling | 00:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | back to the math | 00:20 |
| @preaction | rizen--; editing your own karma is lame, dude :p | 00:24 |
| @rizen | i would never do that | 00:25 |
| @rizen | i can't believe you would accuse me of that | 00:25 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: are you bug fixing manana? | 00:25 |
| @rizen | supposedly | 00:25 |
| @rizen | we'll see what preaction sticks me with on the support list | 00:25 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we could start by winnowing out the non-bugs | 00:30 |
| @rizen | perhaps | 00:32 |
| @rizen | i just want to clean up the damn list | 00:32 |
| @rizen | so i'll probably start at one end | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Amen | 00:32 |
| @rizen | and work my way through it | 00:32 |
| @rizen | as much as possible | 00:32 |
| * PedersenMJ sighs sadly. I *really* wish we'd found pb last year when looking. We have a new site getting ready to launch which has 140k of html for the home page. | 00:34 | |
| +perlDreamer | what kind of "k"? | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | lines | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | pages | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | bytes? | 00:35 |
| PedersenMJ | bytes | 00:35 |
| PedersenMJ | 3595 lines. | 00:35 |
| @rizen | you could always scrap it and go with webgui now | 00:35 |
| @rizen | i'm sure the site you are launching could be built in webgui in 1/4 the time | 00:36 |
| PedersenMJ | Don't I wish. The current investment is at $150,000 (that I know of), and that's just in services that have been paid for so far. TPTB would pitch a major fit over the idea of tossing that kind of money out the window. | 00:36 |
| @rizen | that's the worst excuse that i ever hear from people | 00:36 |
| PedersenMJ | You're right. | 00:37 |
| @rizen | we've invested $100 million dollars in crap | 00:37 |
| PedersenMJ | It's a *shitty* excuse. | 00:37 |
| @rizen | but if we hold on to the crap for long enough | 00:37 |
| @rizen | it might just turn into gold | 00:37 |
| @rizen | =) | 00:37 |
| PedersenMJ | And I hate it. I wish that management agreed, though. | 00:37 |
| @rizen | they can't change directions, cuz that would mean they made a mistake | 00:37 |
| @rizen | it's a classic CYA | 00:37 |
| PedersenMJ | My single best hope is that this site falls flat, and hard, in a non-recoverable fashion, right away. | 00:38 |
| perlm | In economics sunks costs are always closely related with poor decision making. | 00:38 |
| perlm | rational decision making ignores sunk costs. irrational decion making is hung up on sunk costs. | 00:39 |
| perlm | loss aversion is usually based on jobloss aversion :P | 00:40 |
| perlm | ie CYA | 00:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Yep, and that's a big part of what's going on. What we have is so bad, so ancient, and everybody hates it so much, that the feeling is that anything must better. | 00:41 |
| PedersenMJ | So, all the issues that I've got are being set aside as "Well, we can work around that." | 00:42 |
| perlm | You shoudl spend a weekend porting a few key areas to WG and show it to some brass and say you can deliever if you are supported. | 00:42 |
| PedersenMJ | Here's my personal favorite: I asked for performance statistics. Their response to the question was "Well, if you need help configuring your cluster, we can recommend a group we know." | 00:43 |
| PedersenMJ | Their reasoning was that since I was asking so that I could compare our performance with theirs, and give myself a useful baseline, I must need help getting the configuration. | 00:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Not 100% flawed reasoning, but completely ignored the simple request: Tell me how many page views your web app can handle per some unit of time with some hardware configuration. | 00:45 |
| PedersenMJ | I really have considered doing that porting work, to show what all can be done. Not 100% confident of my abilities with wG yet, though. | 00:46 |
| Radix__ | so test it - there are web testing tools out there arent there that test that kind of thing | 00:46 |
| perlm | I've seen the commerical CMS tools in action, in scale, in their full crappiness. | 00:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Yes, there are, and I'm already configuring hammerhead. But tell me this: Suppose I can handle 1 request/second. Is that good, bad, or in between? | 00:47 |
| perlm | It is hard to quantify just how much better WG is that the commercial tools I've seen. | 00:47 |
| @rizen | 1 per second is bad | 00:48 |
| perlm | 1 request a second is utter crap. | 00:48 |
| @rizen | no matter what hardware you are on | 00:48 |
| @rizen | 2 requests per second is unbelievably good though | 00:48 |
| perlm | hope you are only paying for a 384KB/sec pipe, cause that is all you will be using (at most). | 00:48 |
| @rizen | so you should shoot for 1.5 | 00:48 |
| @rizen | =) | 00:48 |
| @rizen | btw...i'm kidding | 00:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, bad way to phrase the question: Suppose I can handle 1 request/sec. Is that the expected rate, is it better, or is it worse? | 00:48 |
| @rizen | depends on the system and what you're doing | 00:49 |
| @rizen | let me give you an example | 00:49 |
| @rizen | using apache bench | 00:49 |
| @rizen | on my crappy mac | 00:49 |
| @rizen | running webgui | 00:49 |
| @rizen | with one simultaneous request | 00:49 |
| @rizen | i can do 15 requests per second | 00:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Exactly! Depends on the system! But I have no way of *actually* gauging *their* application. I can tell what we have, but am unable to tell if we are running at the expected speeds, or if we are doing better or worse. | 00:50 |
| @rizen | and that's while running lots of other apps | 00:50 |
| @rizen | the only way to do a fair comparison | 00:50 |
| @rizen | of whether one system is faster than another | 00:50 |
| @rizen | you have to install both systems on the same hardware | 00:51 |
| @rizen | and have them perform roughly the same functions | 00:51 |
| @rizen | under the same conditions | 00:51 |
| Radix__ | the biggest difference isn't going to be speed though - it's going to be manageability. | 00:51 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm not even trying to compare one system to another. I'm trying to discover what *they* feel we should be able to get. Even a ballpark range of it. Heck, tell me how it performs on one of their servers, even. | 00:52 |
| perlm | Sounds like you are dealing with novel | 00:52 |
| PedersenMJ | You see, I *know* that wG would be at least as fast as anything they can provide, but am completely unable to prove it, since anything I can benchmark, they can say "Oh, you just need to tune our application better. Here, let me give you a phone number of some folks who can help, for a generous fee, of course." | 00:53 |
| Radix__ | We don't really care about throughput with our website - it's a non-issue to us as we don't get a huge amount of hits daily, but we do need to keep the information on our website up to date at all times and wanted to deliver more dynamic content. | 00:54 |
| @preaction | you can tune an application to skew any benchmarking results, the results that matter are still the same... | 00:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Then it comes down to a question of who should mgt believe: One of their employees, or some company who does this full time and has just been paid a lot of money to do it for this company. | 00:55 |
| @preaction | what the real issue is: WebGUI can outperform without those tedious, expensive tweaks... | 00:55 |
| @preaction | you have plainblack behind you though | 00:56 |
| @preaction | and the wG community | 00:56 |
| perlm | looks like my p4/3.2GH with 1gig ram on a sata is serving 25 cached Webgui pages per second. | 00:56 |
| @preaction | donorware has some choice things to say, and they're running ancient webgui | 00:56 |
| perlm | woah, second test shows 40 pages/second | 00:56 |
| @preaction | Brunswick just updated to the latest version | 00:56 |
| @preaction | the US Department of State has been using WebGUI for a while for a whole slew of sites | 00:57 |
| @rizen | PedersenMJ, the speed of the thing (unless it's a huge painpoint) isn't the way to win an arguement anyway | 00:57 |
| perlm | my box at home via https can serve 7 pages a second with webgui and I just cleared the cache there. | 00:57 |
| @rizen | it's the stuff that actually costs money | 00:57 |
| @rizen | like how long does it take to build out a site using it | 00:58 |
| @rizen | how much hardware does it take to host it | 00:58 |
| @rizen | how easy is it to plug in functionality X | 00:58 |
| @rizen | what does it already have out of the box that i don't need to develop | 00:58 |
| @rizen | things that easily equate to time and money | 00:58 |
| PedersenMJ | The speed of it is just one of my issues. | 00:58 |
| @rizen | for example | 00:59 |
| PedersenMJ | Correction, not the speed of it, but the answer to the question. Virtually every single question that I ask of them gets the same sort of response. | 00:59 |
| @rizen | one of our clients was running oracle portals | 00:59 |
| @rizen | it took 8 servers to run one site | 00:59 |
| @rizen | when they switched to webgui, they used a mid-range pentium box with a gig of ram | 01:00 |
| @rizen | therefore it was easy to see the hardware cost benefit | 01:00 |
| perlm | my junker box at home on a 1mbps pipe can do 7 webgui pages/second. | 01:00 |
| @rizen | plainblack.com, which is a reasonably complex web site is capable of about 25 requests per second | 01:01 |
| @rizen | with a 2.4 ghz xeon and 2 gigs of ram | 01:02 |
| PedersenMJ | As you've already noted, JT, to show them what would have to be done would require some clear cost-benefits. And it would require another significant hurdle being crossed: Getting them to dump the current company. | 01:02 |
| @rizen | i suppose it could do more if i tweaked it, but that's good enough for our needs | 01:02 |
| PedersenMJ | *The* major reason for sticking with the current company? With the current company, we can (supposedly) have a brand new website by the end of Feb, launched and public, and we can be rid of the old one. | 01:04 |
| PedersenMJ | With how much everybody (internally) loathes our current site, getting rid of it is a *very* high priority. | 01:05 |
| Radix__ | WebGUI is not the answer | 01:06 |
| Radix__ | WebGUI is the question. Yes is the answer. | 01:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, I know. I'm hoping that making an intranet, and showing *that* to them, will give them some idea of what it can do. | 01:07 |
| PedersenMJ | But, even if they *did* go with it.... Hey, waitaminnit: pb.com actually handles support contracts, and actually deals with customers... Give me 3 months, and then we'll see. We're all expecting this company, once they've been paid in full, to tell us to fark off. | 01:08 |
| PedersenMJ | Until then, though, I'll apologize in advance. I'm thinking I'll rant and rave over the competition, which seems to have so little value that it's amazing to me they managed to make a business, never mnd stay in business. | 01:11 |
| @preaction | is martin in here? | 01:21 |
| @rizen | he's away | 01:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | he is | 01:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | what's up? | 01:24 |
| @rizen | whoa | 01:24 |
| @rizen | your account shows an away status on my screen | 01:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 01:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | well | 01:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | i put it on away this afternoon | 01:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | when i was away | 01:24 |
| +MrHairgrease | never put it back | 01:24 |
| @preaction | MrHairgrease: that fix you made to WebGUI::Form::Date, i just needed to know what you did so I could apply it to the other elements as well (but i found it in SVN) | 01:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 01:25 |
| +MrHairgrease | i was kinda mysterious at first | 01:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | but after a while i figured out what it was supposed to do | 01:26 |
| @preaction | yeah, i also added some other tests, and realized that i probably should've tested the other way | 01:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 01:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | so | 01:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | no more questions? | 01:27 |
| @preaction | nope, thanks | 01:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 01:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | stupid freaking proxy user agent crud! | 01:51 |
| cap10morgan | general advice question: i'm writing a grassroots political action tool (basically it allows constituents to email their congressman) in webgui. | 01:52 |
| cap10morgan | and i'm debating whether the component that actually delivers all the messages should be written as a workflow activity or not | 01:52 |
| cap10morgan | there will be thousands of messages in the queue at times | 01:52 |
| crythia1 | why do I think you don't have a choice? | 01:53 |
| cap10morgan | and i don't want to clog up spectre | 01:53 |
| @rizen | just throw the messages in the WebGUI mail queue | 01:53 |
| @rizen | spectre will send them out as it goes | 01:53 |
| cap10morgan | the other option would be a completely outside of webgui daemon that just scans the queue db table | 01:53 |
| @rizen | as far as clogging up the queue, just set it to priority 3 for sending out messages | 01:54 |
| @rizen | that way publishing requests go through first | 01:54 |
| cap10morgan | spectre will still attend to the other activities pretty quickly even w/ a huge queue, right? | 01:54 |
| cap10morgan | oh, ok | 01:54 |
| cap10morgan | didn't realize you could prioritize them | 01:54 |
| cap10morgan | very nice | 01:54 |
| @rizen | yes, cuz it only sends out the messages it can send out in 1 minute | 01:54 |
| cap10morgan | ok, great | 01:54 |
| @rizen | then it releases control to see if there's something else to do | 01:54 |
| @rizen | if not | 01:54 |
| @rizen | it resumes | 01:54 |
| cap10morgan | spectre it is! | 01:54 |
| cap10morgan | hmm, where do you set the priority for an activity? | 02:01 |
| @rizen | not for an activity | 02:01 |
| @rizen | for a workflow | 02:01 |
| @rizen | look in the scheduler | 02:01 |
| @rizen | for the workflow that sends out emails | 02:01 |
| @rizen | you'll also likely want to change that schedule to run every minute | 02:02 |
| @rizen | rather than every 5 | 02:02 |
| cap10morgan | ah, got it, thanks | 02:02 |
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| Radix-wrk | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4134446112378047444 | 03:52 |
| @rizen | that's hillarious | 03:59 |
| Radix-wrk | I thought you'd like it ;) | 04:02 |
| -!- wgGuest77 [n=wgGuest7@60.50.200.186] has joined #webgui | 04:07 | |
| Radix-wrk | Greetings wgGuest77 | 04:10 |
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| * Radix-wrk wonders how he's going to implement this new password recovery for over 4000 users who have no profile information other than name, company name and email address. | 04:36 | |
| @rizen | or don't | 04:37 |
| @rizen | 7.4 will see the return of email based password recovery | 04:37 |
| @rizen | 7.3 would have had it, but we had to let someone go, so we were all playing catch up | 04:38 |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. what's the time frame for a stable 7.4 then? | 04:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Yay! I wasn't the first one to ask for it! :D | 04:42 |
| @rizen | 1 week longer than it would have been before you asked | 04:43 |
| @rizen | if you want to speed 7.4 coming into the world, then you need to help us get the bug list cleared | 04:44 |
| @rizen | cuz we're not even going to fork for 7.4 dev until that's done | 04:44 |
| Radix-wrk | Fair enough | 04:44 |
| * PedersenMJ turns into annoying newb for a minute: What? You mean you expect us to work on this system you provide for free and we benefit from? How dare you! I can't believe the nerve of some developers! You should just be grateful we use it! | 04:53 | |
| * PedersenMJ turns annoying newb mode off ;) | 04:53 | |
| @rizen | that's it | 04:53 |
| @rizen | you're outta here | 04:53 |
| @rizen | you're just lucky i can't spell kik | 04:54 |
| PedersenMJ | heh. Damn lucky I am. | 04:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Seriously, JT, I would like to contribute better to the help files. Is there a way I can do something to help structure the wiki a bit, and maybe help with that? | 04:58 |
| @rizen | Just do it. It's a wiki. That's what it's there for. | 04:58 |
| PedersenMJ | Or should I just write away at everything I can in the wiki, until we have enough content in there to help structure it? | 04:58 |
| @rizen | Whichever way works best for you. | 04:59 |
| @rizen | I built the wiki asset in webgui to spur growth in community driven documentation | 04:59 |
| @rizen | so do what you can | 04:59 |
| @rizen | and hopefully others will join you | 04:59 |
| @rizen | and then we'll have lots and lots of great documentation | 05:00 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay. Next up, how to convert a style into a theme. I'm going to make an article over here, first, and then do a copy/paste into an article there. | 05:00 |
| PedersenMJ | wiki entry, not article, sorry. | 05:00 |
| PedersenMJ | BTW, there's a reason I focus on the docs and themes: When it comes to perl objects, I suck. I've never been able to grok them, and every article I've read on it just doesn't clear it up for me. I can do some great stuff in a procedural fashion with perl, but objects (and, in fact, higher level than list data structures) just don't make sense to me in perl. | 05:01 |
| @rizen | that's fine | 05:02 |
| @rizen | every area needs documentation | 05:02 |
| @rizen | and honestly, the API has more docs than everything else anyway | 05:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, that's the part that you guys need and use the most. | 05:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Interesting. I'm obviously doing something wrong, as I can't put a wiki onto a page layout. | 05:10 |
| PedersenMJ | When I do, I get a "Problem With Request" message, and a nastygram in the log file about being unable to execute a prepared sql statement. | 05:10 |
| @preaction | what's the SQL statement? what version? | 05:16 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm not sure... Here's what I've got, and what I've narrowed it down to. /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.pm, line 44, in 7.3.5. | 05:18 |
| PedersenMJ | For some reason, the $self->get("recentChangesCount") at the end of that statement (technically on line 45) is being treated as a string by the DBI, and resulting in the end portion of the statement being <<desc limit '50'>> (minus the <<>>) | 05:19 |
| PedersenMJ | MySQL, of course, treats that as an error. | 05:20 |
| @preaction | someone's using a placeholder where they shouldn't be | 05:20 |
| @preaction | for some reason DBI thinks that "limit" is a column that wants a string, so it's making 50 into a string | 05:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, good, was worried that the someone was, somehow, me. | 05:22 |
| @preaction | screw DBI, screw HTML::Template, and screw Larry Wall! | 05:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Ewww. Why include Larry on that list? | 05:22 |
| @preaction | because I want to tell my great-great grandchildren that I screwed Larry Wall | 05:22 |
| @preaction | you're telling me you wouldn't? | 05:23 |
| PedersenMJ | Could be worse, I suppose. You could want to tell them you screwed Richard Stallman. | 05:23 |
| @preaction | oh god, no. I hate hippies. | 05:23 |
| PedersenMJ | And no, I wouldn't do Larry Wall. Something about having an odd number of legs just does nothing for me. | 05:24 |
| @preaction | i suppose I should realize that I'm a PBWG now, and I should act appropriately... | 05:24 |
| @preaction | but where's the damned fun in that? | 05:24 |
| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] | 05:25 | |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, judging by the actions of at least one pb'er, you're definitely acting appropriately. | 05:25 |
| @preaction | whom? JT? | 05:25 |
| @preaction | fuck the fucking fucker! | 05:26 |
| @preaction | JT isn't a "pb'er" he's THE PB'ER | 05:26 |
| @preaction | perlbot tmrfe | 05:26 |
| @preaction | gooeybot tmrfe | 05:26 |
| gooeybot | preaction: excuse me? | 05:26 |
| @preaction | gooeybot tmrfe is The Man Responsible For Everything -- Yes, sometimes there IS someone to blame. | 05:26 |
| PedersenMJ | One good thing about this channel: There's not a whole lot of holding back your opinions :) | 05:27 |
| @preaction | i have +o, i get to +b anyone who doesn't agree with my opins ;-) | 05:27 |
| @preaction | Alpha Geeks | 05:28 |
| @preaction | tmrfe? | 05:28 |
| gooeybot | tmrfe is The Man Responsible For Everything or Yes, sometimes there is someone to blame | 05:28 |
| @preaction | rofl | 05:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Gotta remember that: If I disagree, keep my mouth *SHUT*. | 05:28 |
| @preaction | nono, if you disagree and can back it up, talk | 05:28 |
| @preaction | i kept my mouth shut on a lot of things, and bad things happened because of it | 05:28 |
| @preaction | example: 7.3.6 is going to be very bad, because the Calendar has not been tested as robustly as I said it should be | 05:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, upgrading dbi from 1.52 to 1.53. Let's see if that fixes that problem. | 05:29 |
| @preaction | because nobody uses "beta" versions | 05:29 |
| @preaction | crap, he's back, quit talking | 05:29 |
| @preaction | 3... 2... 1... | 05:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, I *am* using the beta version. I've learned that beta, for wg, seems to mean "We don't wanna support it" | 05:29 |
| @preaction | do what now? we do support it, we just don't recommend that mission-critical apps use it | 05:30 |
| @preaction | example: if your company intranet relies on webgui, don't use something that could break that | 05:30 |
| @preaction | BUT, do make a dev site and do test that your company intranet works with the beta (something that nobody does, but they should) | 05:30 |
| @preaction | a dev box would run someone, what? $300 | 05:31 |
| @preaction | if that | 05:31 |
| @preaction | use an old production box from 1992 | 05:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, again with my bad choice of words. beta doesn't seem to mean much to me. I've watched webgui off and on over the past year, and seen it go through more versions than I can count. With that many releases, it's hard not to think of *every* release as being beta. | 05:31 |
| @preaction | 7.3.6 will be more stable than any 7.0 series to date | 05:31 |
| @preaction | and 7.4 will as well | 05:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, that DBI upgrade didn't fix it. Maybe DBD::MySQL | 05:32 |
| @preaction | it's only going to get better, now that more people are payed to develop WebGUI | 05:32 |
| PedersenMJ | I don't (and haven't) doubted that. Heck, I use beta software for production purposes. I find that quite often beta is perfectly fine for my needs. | 05:32 |
| @preaction | another reason i feel we should abolish those labels | 05:33 |
| @preaction | the main one: People are afraid of "beta" software. | 05:33 |
| @preaction | so it will never become stable if nobody uses it | 05:33 |
| @preaction | the bazaar approach: with enough eyes, all bugs are shallow | 05:33 |
| PedersenMJ | Wow, DBD::MySQL went from 2.9006 to 3.008, and *that* fixed that problem. | 05:33 |
| @preaction | good, i can recommend that to people on the forums | 05:33 |
| PedersenMJ | BRB, must submit an rfe for testenvironment for that. | 05:34 |
| @preaction | then when 7.3.6 goes stable, people should run testEnvironment.pl again, that should be added to the gotchas | 05:34 |
| @preaction | also, damnit, i love frank to death but he can't write code for beans | 05:36 |
| @preaction | and he loves doing it so much too, it's hard to break it to him | 05:36 |
| @preaction | JT doesn't have that problem luckily, so i ask him to. rofl | 05:36 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/update-dbdmysql-required-version#hvtUJ3-kg8RnNNvbGeJ_iA | 05:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Definitely think that's a quickie, and worth some karma being put in. Don't have much myself at this point, though. | 05:38 |
| @preaction | pfft, not even a quicky, that's 15 seconds | 05:38 |
| @preaction | problem is, all RFEs have to run by JT, so i can't just do it now | 05:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, but would be worth it to prevent some bug reports. | 05:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Throw karma at it, then, and make JT see it tomorrow. | 05:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Or later tonight, if he comes back (I know, he usually does). | 05:39 |
| @snapcount | sweeeeeeeeet | 05:39 |
| @snapcount | one of my stocks went up by $2.12 / share today | 05:40 |
| PedersenMJ | I can go one better than that: Not one of my stocks has *ever* gone down. | 05:40 |
| @preaction | pfft, i'm not wasting my karma on that :p | 05:40 |
| @snapcount | that's pretty incredible | 05:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Of course, having no stocks also means that none have ever gone up, either. | 05:40 |
| @preaction | rofl | 05:40 |
| @preaction | hook line and sinker? | 05:41 |
| @snapcount | I swallowed the whole fishing pole | 05:41 |
| @preaction | you do personal stock trading? or mutual funding? | 05:41 |
| @preaction | i say we should have a little plainblack investment club thingy | 05:41 |
| PedersenMJ | Me? None. Congrats, though, snapcount. That's cool. | 05:41 |
| @snapcount | I have a Roth IRA that's spread across two mutual funds | 05:42 |
| @snapcount | all of my SEP money is in individual stocks | 05:42 |
| @preaction | i understood none of that | 05:42 |
| @preaction | SEP? i know what an IRA is but you put that in mutual funds? | 05:42 |
| PedersenMJ | SEP? Somebody Else's Problem money? | 05:42 |
| @preaction | i really need to set up an appt with my bank | 05:42 |
| @snapcount | Roth IRA == taxed on contributions, max of 4K per year you can put in, no taxes when you cash out | 05:42 |
| @snapcount | I forget what SEP stands for | 05:43 |
| @snapcount | but it's basically a max of 40 - 50k per year contribution I think | 05:43 |
| @preaction | http://personal.fidelity.com/products/retirement/getstart/newacc/sepira.shtml.cvsr <- | 05:43 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah,see, I only know the Hitchhiker's Guide reference (yes, very bad geek syndrome here) | 05:43 |
| @snapcount | tax free contribs | 05:43 |
| @snapcount | taxed when you cash out | 05:44 |
| @snapcount | both have penalties if you cash out before retirement age except for certain things | 05:44 |
| @snapcount | like buying your first home | 05:44 |
| @snapcount | and they are *huge* penalties | 05:45 |
| @snapcount | like 40% total | 05:45 |
| @preaction | on the principle? or on the earnings? | 05:45 |
| @snapcount | on the withdraw | 05:45 |
| @preaction | so on the whole damned thing | 05:45 |
| @snapcount | it counts as regular income | 05:45 |
| @snapcount | yep | 05:45 |
| @snapcount | so income tax of like 30% | 05:45 |
| @preaction | if you insert $100 and withdraw right away, you only get $60 | 05:45 |
| @snapcount | then a 10% penalty | 05:45 |
| @snapcount | exactly | 05:46 |
| @preaction | ew | 05:46 |
| @preaction | where do you go for your finances? i still haven't found a place anyone recommends | 05:46 |
| @snapcount | scottrade is where all of my investments are | 05:46 |
| @snapcount | also where your Plain Black profit sharing will go | 05:47 |
| @preaction | then what was that $85 check i just got from plainblack? | 05:47 |
| @snapcount | your paycheck for the year? | 05:48 |
| @snapcount | did you get a raise?! | 05:48 |
| @snapcount | what _the_ hell | 05:48 |
| @snapcount | didn't you have some expense reimbursements coming or something? | 05:48 |
| @preaction | oh, right | 05:48 |
| @preaction | expenses | 05:48 |
| @preaction | i was going to say, i don't have profit sharing yet | 05:49 |
| @snapcount | you do now | 05:49 |
| @snapcount | started Jan 1 I think | 05:49 |
| @preaction | right | 05:49 |
| @snapcount | so work harder!!! | 05:49 |
| @preaction | i'm trying | 05:49 |
| @snapcount | save us money | 05:49 |
| @snapcount | reduce costs | 05:49 |
| @preaction | i'm also trying! | 05:49 |
| @snapcount | get 1000 clients | 05:49 |
| @snapcount | hehe | 05:49 |
| @preaction | i've been hyping up webgui to everyone i know | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | it's a good incentive | 05:50 |
| @preaction | (not because i'm paid to though, which is why it's so alluring to them) | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | a lot of companies don't do it anymore | 05:50 |
| @preaction | because they don't make enough money | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | It took me 5 years at my last job to qualify for the lowest level bonus program | 05:50 |
| @snapcount | maxed out at like 900 / year | 05:50 |
| @preaction | Tonren: I'm always afraid to use mod_rewrite. I'm afraid I may inadvertently open a gateway to Hell. | 05:50 |
| @preaction | lol | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | uhh | 05:51 |
| @preaction | and ew @ snapcount | 05:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh, I'm even hyping it to people, and I'm *not* getting paid. Which is fine, I'm not a web developer, and have no interest in becoming one. | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | there is no cap at plainblack | 05:51 |
| @preaction | why are you not idling in: #perl, #css, #apache, #ubuntu :p | 05:51 |
| @snapcount | who? | 05:52 |
| @preaction | hell, i own #css, you should at least give me some props there :p | 05:52 |
| @preaction | YOU | 05:52 |
| * snapcount looks over his shoulder | 05:52 | |
| @preaction | yes, he knows who he is! | 05:52 |
| @snapcount | I don't know much about those topics | 05:52 |
| @snapcount | well, two of them at least | 05:53 |
| @preaction | :p | 05:53 |
| @snapcount | the other two I know a little bit about | 05:53 |
| @snapcount | by my standards at least | 05:53 |
| @preaction | you idle to learn and to teach :p | 05:54 |
| @snapcount | wow... #css is your channel? | 05:54 |
| @preaction | inasmuch as i have founder access to chanserv, yes | 05:54 |
| @snapcount | crikey! | 05:54 |
| @preaction | 2-3 years ago i asked the freenode people to give me a place that wasn't being used by anybody, and now it's that | 05:54 |
| @preaction | for a channel of that size, there's surprisingly little bad stuff going on. people target #perl a lot, #ubuntu and the other distros a lot | 05:55 |
| @preaction | #apache once in a while | 05:55 |
| @preaction | we're bigger than #web, and that's all i really ask. we'll never be as big as ##php though, which sucks | 05:55 |
| @preaction | i'm an uber-nerd, so what? | 05:56 |
| @snapcount | damn... I'll be like 189 dog years old in an hour | 05:57 |
| @snapcount | closing fast on 10,000 days!! | 05:58 |
| @snapcount | woot | 05:58 |
| @preaction | woot indeed | 05:58 |
| @snapcount | damn... woot had a good deal going today | 06:02 |
| @snapcount | two 512MB memory sticks for 9.99 | 06:02 |
| @preaction | dude | 06:02 |
| @preaction | you picked me up some, right? | 06:02 |
| PedersenMJ | I'd almost be afraid to plug them in at that price. | 06:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, are the WebGUI help files online anyplace, or are they just in the help section of an installed webgui site? | 06:04 |
| @preaction | help section of installed webgui, make a demo | 06:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Nah, was wanting to make links to it from a wiki entry. | 06:08 |
| @preaction | ah, no unfortunately | 06:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Herm... This might piss off JT if I did it, but it *does* work: http://www.plainblack.com/home?op=viewHelpChapter;namespace=AdSpace | 06:10 |
| PedersenMJ | I think I'll ask before I make such links, though. Like I said, liable to piss him off. | 06:11 |
| @preaction | dude? how? can you click view Admin Console over there? | 06:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope. | 06:11 |
| @preaction | then it was meant to | 06:11 |
| PedersenMJ | I used my own website, and changed the domain in it to plainblack.com | 06:11 |
| @preaction | nothing over on the right that has anything that you shouldn't be able to click on? | 06:11 |
| @preaction | yeah, i can't see why he'd have a problem with links to there | 06:12 |
| PedersenMJ | Nothing that I can see. And when I *do* show the admin console, I get the login button, and the help chapter. | 06:12 |
| @preaction | yeah, i logged out and am looking as a visitor | 06:12 |
| -!- wgGuest91 [n=wgGuest9@adsl-69-107-5-136.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #webgui | 06:13 | |
| wgGuest91 | ice | 06:13 |
| wgGuest91 | nice. I like this | 06:13 |
| -!- wgGuest91 is now known as IsaacFinnegan | 06:13 | |
| PedersenMJ | Ditto. I can't see why he would be upset, but... It's not a clickable link. People have gone to court over publishing such links. So far, I've managed to avoid having JT think of me as something he peeled off the bottom of his shoe. Would like to keep it that way :) | 06:13 |
| PedersenMJ | Hiya IsaacFinnegan. What's up? | 06:14 |
| IsaacFinnegan | Hi. Not much just checking out the new web irc client. Very coo. | 06:14 |
| IsaacFinnegan | Happen to see it. Writing an Auth plugin write now | 06:14 |
| * PedersenMJ points to snapcount. Thank him :) | 06:14 | |
| @preaction | the prick.. stole my idea | 06:15 |
| IsaacFinnegan | very cool | 06:15 |
| IsaacFinnegan | gj | 06:15 |
| PedersenMJ | I seem to recall JT figuring out that snapcount doesn't have an original bone in his body last night. | 06:16 |
| @preaction | eh, i say things that i'd like to see and he actually does them, so i can't complain | 06:16 |
| @preaction | i don't have time to do half the things i want to see in WebGUI / plainblack | 06:16 |
| @snapcount | hey... I can be original | 06:17 |
| @preaction | laugh. Mr. Worst Idea of 2006 | 06:17 |
| * PedersenMJ waits. | 06:17 | |
| * preaction holds his breath. | 06:17 | |
| PedersenMJ | See, I can admit to being boring and unoriginal. | 06:17 |
| @snapcount | give me a minute | 06:17 |
| @snapcount | it's coming | 06:17 |
| @snapcount | almost now | 06:17 |
| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui | 06:17 | |
| @snapcount | ok | 06:17 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ | 06:17 | |
| @preaction | sure, now that JT's here you'll have an original idea... | 06:18 |
| @preaction | er.. i mean | 06:18 |
| @snapcount | WebGUI should use a system where everything is an "asset" | 06:18 |
| @snapcount | see | 06:18 |
| * preaction holds breath | 06:18 | |
| @snapcount | that' original | 06:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, go and take out a patent on it, so that you can squeeze JT for the bucks. | 06:18 |
| @preaction | should we call them "asset" though? sounds too much like "ass" | 06:18 |
| @preaction | how about web objects? | 06:18 |
| @snapcount | wobjects! | 06:18 |
| @snapcount | Eureka | 06:18 |
| @preaction | omg! | 06:18 |
| @preaction | that's perfect! | 06:19 |
| @snapcount | (tm) snapcount industries incorporated | 06:19 |
| @snapcount | now we just need a mascot | 06:19 |
| @snapcount | a multi-tasker | 06:19 |
| @preaction | how about a squid? | 06:19 |
| @snapcount | zOMG | 06:19 |
| @preaction | with a big shield, for protection against lawsuits | 06:19 |
| PedersenMJ | Heya rizen: Question for you regarding online help files? Would you want to take me out back and have me shot (or worse) if I posted links like this (http://www.plainblack.com/home?op=viewHelpChapter;namespace=AdSpace) in a wiki article? | 06:19 |
| @snapcount | oh wow... what have we become | 06:19 |
| @preaction | plainblack will probably say you stole their ideas | 06:19 |
| @preaction | hilarious? | 06:20 |
| @preaction | we have become hilarious | 06:20 |
| @snapcount | you can only tell yourself that for so long | 06:20 |
| @snapcount | trust me, I know | 06:20 |
| @preaction | before it becomes true, i know | 06:20 |
| -!- wgGuest59 [n=wgGuest5@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui | 06:20 | |
| @snapcount | although I sent an email to Steve and Vrby last week that made Steve shoot Mountain Dew out of his nose | 06:20 |
| @preaction | i was making chris palamaro laugh his buns off today, and i was telling him that he had to do a whole bunch of crap | 06:20 |
| @snapcount | must have got lucky | 06:21 |
| @preaction | lolol | 06:21 |
| @snapcount | welcome wgGuest59 | 06:21 |
| wgGuest59 | Are you going to just leave the chat thingy as a file attached to the page, or going to hide it and give it a proper link button or something? | 06:21 |
| @preaction | question: what is SQL_CALC_FOUND_ROWS and why isn't it working? | 06:22 |
| -!- wgGuest59 [n=wgGuest5@203.161.68.67] has quit [Client Quit] | 06:22 | |
| @rizen | pedersenmj | 06:22 |
| @rizen | don't include the domain in it | 06:22 |
| @rizen | or a page for that matter | 06:23 |
| @snapcount | did anyone grok wgGuest59's comment | 06:23 |
| @rizen | just /?op=viewHelpChapter;namespace=AdSpace | 06:23 |
| PedersenMJ | Should it actually be ^/; instead of just / ? | 06:23 |
| Radix-wrk | snapcount: Your link to the irc chat is wierd. | 06:23 |
| @snapcount | who cares? | 06:24 |
| Radix-wrk | Oh.. you've got a button | 06:24 |
| @rizen | where did you see sql_calc_found_rows | 06:24 |
| Radix-wrk | but you didn't hide the file objects | 06:24 |
| @rizen | it better not be in svn | 06:24 |
| @snapcount | hide them? | 06:24 |
| Radix-wrk | go to www.webgui.org and scroll right down to the bottom snapcount | 06:24 |
| IsaacFinnegan | will packages being totally broken stop 7.3.6 from being marked stable? | 06:24 |
| @snapcount | yikes! | 06:24 |
| @rizen | pedersen...you can't use macros | 06:24 |
| @snapcount | woops | 06:24 |
| @snapcount | err | 06:24 |
| Radix-wrk | uhuh | 06:24 |
| @snapcount | whoops | 06:24 |
| @snapcount | thx | 06:24 |
| @preaction | rizen: no, it's in some DoS code, but actually looks like SQLForm uses it too | 06:24 |
| @preaction | rizen: it wasn't that, it was something else | 06:25 |
| @rizen | ok | 06:25 |
| @rizen | it's a way of finding out how many rows the query would have generated had there not been a limit clause on it | 06:25 |
| @preaction | i seem to fall into the habit of always thinking it's something BIG and EXCITING when it's just as simple as "didn't run the migration script" :p | 06:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay JT. Thanks. Wanted to make sure before I posted such links. Current article I'm working on can benefit heavily from linking into the online help files. | 06:25 |
| @preaction | why doesn't our paginator use it? | 06:25 |
| -!- specsmu [n=rmiller@adsl-69-232-61-48.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has left #webgui [] | 06:26 | |
| @preaction | or should i say: "yet"? | 06:26 |
| @rizen | cuz we only found out about it yesterday | 06:26 |
| @preaction | ooooooh | 06:26 |
| @rizen | and we can't put it in the paginator yet | 06:26 |
| @rizen | not until 7.4 | 06:26 |
| @rizen | just in case it has any side effects | 06:26 |
| @preaction | so franks' been on you about the paginator i take it | 06:26 |
| @rizen | yup | 06:26 |
| @rizen | for several months now | 06:26 |
| @snapcount | Radix-wrk: it's fixed now | 06:27 |
| Radix-wrk | :) | 06:27 |
| @rizen | and every idea he came up with i have shot down because it breaks something | 06:27 |
| @rizen | or doesn't work in some circumstance | 06:27 |
| @snapcount | I hid the folder from navigation but forgot to hide the zip archive | 06:27 |
| @rizen | but he found this thing | 06:27 |
| @rizen | and it looks like it will work | 06:27 |
| @preaction | the alternatives are almost universally horrible (i've got a solution where you pass in parts to an SQL query and it assembles it for you, and then assembles a count(*) query) | 06:28 |
| @preaction | but i hate writing SQL, so it works for me | 06:28 |
| PedersenMJ | preaction, you wanna ask JT about this rfe? http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/update-dbdmysql-required-version#hvtUJ3-kg8RnNNvbGeJ_iA | 06:30 |
| @preaction | meh, he'll see it when he sees it | 06:30 |
| @rizen | why is that an rfe? | 06:31 |
| @rizen | it's a bug right? | 06:31 |
| @rizen | it doesn't work without the upgrade? | 06:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Did I file in the wrong spot? THought it was supposed to go there? | 06:31 |
| @rizen | if you want it to do something it doesn't do it's an rfe | 06:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, the big link which says bugs right next to rfe. Sorry about that. | 06:32 |
| @rizen | if it's throwing an error | 06:32 |
| @rizen | it's a bug | 06:32 |
| @preaction | the WRE must come with a 3.0 DBD::MySQL already | 06:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Was looking in the wrong spot, yet again. I do that quite often. | 06:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Is it possible for me to change it into bug, or should I just file a new one as a bug, and dupe it, or what? | 06:33 |
| @preaction | just make a new bug | 06:34 |
| @rizen | WRE comes with DBD::mysql 3.0002 | 06:34 |
| PedersenMJ | And I had 2.9, and testEnvironment was only wanting 2.1021 | 06:35 |
| @snapcount | what's the groupId for 'everyone' | 06:37 |
| @snapcount | 7? | 06:38 |
| @snapcount | indeed | 06:39 |
| @snapcount | thx snapcount | 06:39 |
| @snapcount | np man | 06:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Wow, this is going to a hellaciously long article. I've got 23 items on my todo list for it, and some of them are long. This is the "Create A WebGUI Style" article I've been promising. | 06:44 |
| PedersenMJ | If you guys wanna watch it, it's at http://dev.icelus.tzo.com/wikidocs2/doc-wiki/how-to-make-webgui-look-like-your-site for now. Once I've got it done, I'll post it over on wiki.webgui.org | 06:45 |
| @preaction | PedersenMJ: before you go too gonzo, perhaps some of that stuff should be abstracted out into other wiki articles? like make a base "Macros" article, and add links to the various macros in there, like "macro Asset Proxy" and "macro Login Box" | 06:47 |
| @preaction | you can make a package of the wikipages you make and I'll verify it and put it into the PB wiki for you (since that would be infinitely easier, though that would mean the username would be mine) | 06:47 |
| @preaction | whatever you decide, i guess | 06:48 |
| @rizen | here's an idea | 06:48 |
| @rizen | why screw around with a staging area | 06:48 |
| @rizen | just build it on the wiki like anybody else would do | 06:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Because It's not nearly ready for the general public. | 06:50 |
| @rizen | yeah, but by working out there other people can help you make it ready for general public | 06:50 |
| @rizen | that's the point of a wiki | 06:50 |
| @rizen | it's collaboratie | 06:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Heck, I have to figure out what is going in anything there. I don't mind doing the copy/paste work afterwards. That's minor to me. I want to put something there that I feel some pride in. | 06:50 |
| @snapcount | what does wgbp say about naming object ref variables again? | 06:51 |
| * snapcount doesn't want to look it up =/ | 06:51 | |
| @preaction | $<descriptive name>_ref | 06:51 |
| @snapcount | gracias amigo | 06:51 |
| @preaction | hungarian notation | 06:51 |
| @preaction | rather, systems hungarian | 06:51 |
| @rizen | actually no | 06:51 |
| @preaction | crap! | 06:51 |
| @rizen | it WGBP says $<descriptiveName>Ref | 06:51 |
| @rizen | pbp says the other way | 06:52 |
| @snapcount | b/c we camelCase | 06:52 |
| PedersenMJ | preaction: That does sound like a good idea, and is probably what will happen in the end. But, until I get ready to send it there, it's going to stay one page. | 06:52 |
| @snapcount | ? | 06:52 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/update-dbdmysql-required-version#H78t-iSmQFzoWjeRRSfM2Q | 06:52 |
| @preaction | damn camels and damn the middle east! | 06:52 |
| PedersenMJ | And please close out that RFE. | 06:52 |
| @snapcount | all refs are created equal though, no naming convention for array refs vs obj refs, etc | 06:53 |
| @preaction | correct suh, what it is should explain what type of ref | 06:53 |
| @preaction | though wgbp says to name arrays as plural | 06:54 |
| @preaction | hashes as singular | 06:54 |
| @snapcount | yeah I remember that one | 06:54 |
| @snapcount | man, I don't like this | 06:54 |
| @snapcount | $userRef->username(); | 06:55 |
| @snapcount | that's less readable to me | 06:55 |
| @snapcount | but there's no mistaking what user is I guess | 06:55 |
| @snapcount | I like it for non objects though | 06:56 |
| @snapcount | if only what I liked mattered.... sigh* | 06:56 |
| * PedersenMJ shakes snapcount's hand. Welcome to the club. Meetings are every 3 Tuesday, unless the month has an a in the name, then it's every Friday night. Your t-shirt is on order. | 06:57 | |
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| Radix-wrk | Greetings wgGuest31 | 06:58 |
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| PedersenMJ | Wow, he was talkative. | 06:59 |
| PedersenMJ | His arrival meant more than words can say, and his departure will truly be missed. | 07:00 |
| Radix-wrk | He arrives so late and leaves so early we haven't had time to figure out what he does yet! | 07:00 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, I didn't know I worked with you! What department are you in? | 07:01 |
| Radix-wrk | Area 51 | 07:02 |
| @preaction | snapcount: i would not use it on objects, only hash and array refs | 07:04 |
| @preaction | i don't care what pbp says, for objects it's horrible | 07:04 |
| * preaction ducks the firing squad | 07:04 | |
| @snapcount | well one things for sure | 07:04 |
| @snapcount | there will be a lot of freaking variable names with Ref appended if we do objects too | 07:05 |
| * Radix-wrk lowers his rifle, grins at preaction and says "We aim to please!" | 07:05 | |
| @snapcount | and I agree with you | 07:05 |
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| @snapcount | I just freaking wrote one sub using that notation and I want to go somewhere and die | 07:05 |
| @snapcount | I was getting confused reading very simple code | 07:05 |
| @snapcount | that *I* wrote! | 07:06 |
| @snapcount | seconds earlier | 07:06 |
| @preaction | lolol | 07:06 |
| Radix-wrk | heh - hungarian notation has always sucked.. for every language | 07:06 |
| @preaction | i've adopted a lot of them | 07:06 |
| @rizen | you're not supposed to do it for objects | 07:06 |
| @preaction | and it's systems hungarian, apps hungarian rocks | 07:06 |
| @preaction | wikipedia the subject | 07:06 |
| @rizen | you're supposed to use a valid object name | 07:07 |
| @rizen | like $user | 07:07 |
| @rizen | or $asset | 07:07 |
| @rizen | or whatever | 07:07 |
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| perlDreame1 | anyone awake at this beastly hour? | 07:09 |
| @rizen | pd, what's wrong with you | 07:09 |
| PedersenMJ | nope. All asleep. | 07:09 |
| Radix-wrk | beastly? | 07:09 |
| perlDreame1 | it's a relative thing | 07:09 |
| perlDreame1 | Radix-wrk: what version do you have of DBD::mysql? | 07:09 |
| Radix-wrk | Umm.. no idea | 07:12 |
| Radix-wrk | how do I find out? | 07:12 |
| Radix-wrk | whatever version came with 0.7.1 of the wre tho I'd say | 07:12 |
| perlDreame1 | ah | 07:13 |
| perlDreame1 | okay | 07:13 |
| Radix-wrk | why do you ask? | 07:13 |
| perlDreame1 | there was a bug posted about the minimum version of DBD::mysql | 07:13 |
| PedersenMJ | I just posted it a few minutes ago, actually :) | 07:13 |
| perlDreame1 | apparently the testEnv script allows a version that is too low to work the wiki | 07:13 |
| perlDreame1 | PedersenMJ: we aim to please | 07:13 |
| perlDreame1 | plus, my wife is studying so I have hack time :) | 07:14 |
| @preaction | cd /data/WebGUI/lib; . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment; perl -MDBD::mysql -e 'print $DBD::mysql::VERSION;' | 07:14 |
| perlDreame1 | preaction: are you a WRE user as well? | 07:14 |
| @preaction | yes | 07:14 |
| @preaction | it comes with 3.002 | 07:14 |
| PedersenMJ | And do extremely well. | 07:14 |
| perlDreame1 | well, I've figured out your event recurring bug | 07:14 |
| @preaction | one of many? | 07:15 |
| perlDreame1 | there's more than one? | 07:15 |
| perlDreame1 | I thought the other one was bad specs | 07:15 |
| perlDreame1 | there's nothing that says you should be able to edit all events in a recurring set is there? | 07:16 |
| @preaction | not yet, but there should be | 07:16 |
| @preaction | that's a bug | 07:16 |
| perlDreame1 | well, I think I know the event duplication bug part then. | 07:16 |
| @preaction | there's a # TODO next to where it needs to go :p | 07:17 |
| @preaction | generateRecurringEvents i think | 07:17 |
| perlDreame1 | that's an RFE then ;) | 07:17 |
| @preaction | ooh another bug: "Forever" events are not continually updated, since there's no workflow activity to do that | 07:17 |
| perlDreame1 | at this rate you're going to talk me out of upgrading to use the calendar | 07:18 |
| @preaction | dude, i've been asking for time to work on it but they keep telling me I've got other stuff to do :p | 07:19 |
| Radix-wrk | is the new calendar able to import events from microsoft outlook at all? | 07:19 |
| perlDreame1 | if outlook will do iCal, it should | 07:19 |
| @preaction | Radix-wrk: not precisely, it can't process an icalendar file, it can process an icalendar FEED though | 07:19 |
| @preaction | the import is another thing that fell out of scope, but i thought of it later anyway | 07:20 |
| @preaction | if i had the time to do it all over, now that i know about 5 times as much about webgui, i could do it far better | 07:20 |
| perlDreame1 | that's what Tom Christensen said | 07:20 |
| @preaction | about DBI? | 07:21 |
| @preaction | they are doing it over, for Perl6 | 07:21 |
| perlDreame1 | he meant everything | 07:21 |
| perlDreame1 | you write it once to learn how to do it | 07:21 |
| perlDreame1 | then throw that piece of crap out and do it the right way | 07:21 |
| Radix-wrk | Outlook doesn't support iCal at all (well not for export anyways), and not sure how would be the best way to get events from it (you can publish via webdav apparently), but that's the one thing my users keep wanting - some way to publish their calendars. | 07:25 |
| Radix-wrk | I'll add it as an RFE sometime perhaps | 07:26 |
| @rizen | thus infusing the most important announcement of their lives with the level of gravitas associated with an online dating video | 07:26 |
| @rizen | and doug, you'll have 3 days next week to fix all the problems with the calendar | 07:28 |
| @rizen | or have you forgotten | 07:28 |
| perlDreame1 | rizen: I'd like to close this bug by setting testEnv to use the minimum version supplied by the WRE | 07:30 |
| perlDreame1 | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/update-dbdmysql-required-version#H78t-iSmQFzoWjeRRSfM2Q | 07:30 |
| perlDreame1 | sound okay? | 07:30 |
| @rizen | yup | 07:30 |
| perlDreame1 | sweet | 07:30 |
| perlDreame1 | next you can chide me for my foolishness | 07:30 |
| @rizen | i save my chiding for PetersenMJ | 07:31 |
| perlDreame1 | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/statistics-doesnt-take-into-account-proxy-settings#UQN7MzC3gBKWVUoY0Q76oA | 07:31 |
| @rizen | ok i've read it | 07:33 |
| @rizen | what should i chid you about | 07:33 |
| perlDreame1 | Feel like I'm chasing my tail. | 07:33 |
| @rizen | users will do that if you let them | 07:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah! I've got JT's undivided chiding attention. Now, just need to get an idea together that blows rancid chunks :) | 07:34 |
| @rizen | just type ped, i'm sure something bad will come out | 07:34 |
| @rizen | =) | 07:34 |
| perlDreame1 | the thing is, on his site similar wG code proxies just fine. It's just that piece of it, used by the Cache module. | 07:35 |
| perlDreame1 | and that's the only place that section of code is used. | 07:35 |
| @rizen | pd: really? the syndicated content asset doesn't use it? | 07:35 |
| @rizen | it used to | 07:35 |
| PedersenMJ | I get a few per night, but haven't quite gotten rancid chunks. sux ass, yes, but that's like getting a bronze medal at the Olympics. Sure, you've done really well, but you still lost. | 07:35 |
| perlDreame1 | used to is correct. | 07:36 |
| perlDreame1 | just Operation/Statistics now, in the core | 07:36 |
| @rizen | wtf | 07:37 |
| @rizen | i'm looking at the sc code now | 07:37 |
| @rizen | why the hell would they get rid of it | 07:37 |
| @rizen | and replace it with raw LWP | 07:37 |
| @rizen | who the hell did that | 07:38 |
| @rizen | my god | 07:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Yes? | 07:38 |
| @rizen | they custom coded their own cache | 07:38 |
| perlDreame1 | svn blame | 07:39 |
| @rizen | i'm revoking everyone's access to svn | 07:39 |
| @rizen | EVERYONE | 07:39 |
| @rizen | we never used to have this many bugs back when i was the only one with commit access | 07:40 |
| @rizen | granted, we moved slower | 07:40 |
| @rizen | but damn it | 07:40 |
| @rizen | damn it | 07:40 |
| * rizen head explodes | 07:40 | |
| @preaction | should i be worried that "svn blame" points to the docs for "svn praise"? | 07:40 |
| perlDreame1 | it's a semantic issue | 07:41 |
| PedersenMJ | I've seen you guys are using some smoke tests. Mind if I ask you what the tests do? | 07:41 |
| PedersenMJ | At a high level, obviously not what every test does. | 07:41 |
| perlDreame1 | The smoke tests cover the Session object pretty thoroughly | 07:41 |
| perlDreame1 | Large pieces of User and Group modules | 07:41 |
| perlDreame1 | 99% of the macros | 07:42 |
| perlDreame1 | the i18n and Help systems | 07:42 |
| perlDreame1 | pieces of Asset and other assorted modules | 07:42 |
| perlDreame1 | all as API, not as UI | 07:42 |
| perlDreame1 | if you read the smoke tests, the test names are pretty descriptive | 07:43 |
| @preaction | during our bugfix days, if we can get them all cleared, we should write a whole slew of tests | 07:43 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, let me ask what might be in the top 5 annoying questions, but I'll ask anyway: Have you considered implementing something like junit? | 07:43 |
| @preaction | er, i mean WHEN we get them all cleared | 07:43 |
| perlDreame1 | I don't know what junit is, PedersenMJ | 07:43 |
| @preaction | Test::More is the Perl standard for regression testing | 07:43 |
| PedersenMJ | And, do you object to getting something like that implemented? | 07:43 |
| perlDreame1 | it would need to be for a good reason | 07:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, I didn't know the standard one for perl. | 07:44 |
| perlDreame1 | especially since we don't have SVN commit access anymore | 07:44 |
| PedersenMJ | Sounds like Test::More is (more or less) junit. | 07:44 |
| @preaction | junit is regression testing for java | 07:44 |
| PedersenMJ | It's an idea that's helped me out. The fancy name it's been given is test driven development. And it's helped me prevent bugs, and fix the ones that do make it in quickly. | 07:45 |
| perlDreame1 | http://www.sunsetpres.org/uploads/9gu48lpEZbx7nq2s1ZNM8A/TEMXqLvh-AziwZiJvZGC3g/TestingWebGUI.pdf | 07:45 |
| @rizen | tests can find bugs, but they can't find out when someone has done something the hard way | 07:46 |
| @rizen | or circumvented the API just cuz they are an idiot and wanted to do it their own way | 07:46 |
| PedersenMJ | No, they can't. They can't prevent stupidity, and they can't make people follow standards. | 07:46 |
| @rizen | that's where Perl::Critic comes in to some extent | 07:47 |
| @rizen | but even that only goes so far | 07:47 |
| @rizen | man i can't wait to start on P:C once we branch for 7.4 | 07:47 |
| PedersenMJ | What they *can* do, if the right framework is built around them, is try to enforce that a test is written for every piece of code. That every test actualls calls the code. | 07:47 |
| @preaction | we're sticking to the formatting standards in WGBP then, correct? i've adjusted my vim accordingly already | 07:48 |
| PedersenMJ | That sort of thing. It's not perfect, but it's kept me from making some stupid mistakes. | 07:48 |
| @rizen | yes we are preaction | 07:48 |
| @rizen | until i hear a good argument against it | 07:48 |
| perlDreame1 | we'll need to run perltidy on the source to clean it all up | 07:48 |
| @rizen | yup | 07:48 |
| perlDreame1 | that will be faster than doing it by hand | 07:48 |
| @preaction | there really is none, like vim/emacs, it's a holy war | 07:48 |
| @rizen | but NOT until 7.4 | 07:48 |
| perlDreame1 | Ich herre und verstehen, mein Herr | 07:49 |
| PedersenMJ | So, here's a question for you: If some well intentioned idiot were to want to try and start writing unit tests, how would it be received? | 07:50 |
| perlDreame1 | I'd say pretty well | 07:51 |
| perlDreame1 | Just study the existing tests, implement a few TODO's, then find something that isn't tested well. | 07:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, still gotta finish up the current document, at least two more templates, and then can consider that. It's not something that this particular idiot is going to be jumping on tomorrow. But, possibly... Yeah, I'd like to. | 07:53 |
| perlDreame1 | cool. Snapcount, rizen and I wrote the majority of the tests. We'd be happy to help you get started. | 07:56 |
| @rizen | it would be more fair to say that pd wrote 99% of them | 07:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, hopefully, it'll be possible to get the entire system into it. JT, something to consider: Test Driven Development sometimes has to happen as an edict. But the results... For myself, every time I've gone at a project and implemented TDD, I've found myself preventing dozens of bugs. Every single time. | 07:59 |
| @preaction | it is an edict | 07:59 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm only one bit of anecdotal evidence, but it could be a way to start reducing bug count. | 07:59 |
| @rizen | PedersenMJ: don't take this the wrong way, but you are getting on my nerves | 07:59 |
| PedersenMJ | I thought so. Sorry about that. | 08:00 |
| @rizen | you're stating a lot of crap as if i don't already know these things | 08:00 |
| @rizen | or as if i haven't thought of them | 08:00 |
| @snapcount | Say my code starts with a call to sub go() and that calls sub1() which calls sub2() and sub2 croaks("the world is ending"). If I made the call to go() like this: if (eval { go() } ) { #good } else { print "Error was: ".$@ } is that going to catch the exception | 08:00 |
| @preaction | snapcount: yes, but tias | 08:00 |
| PedersenMJ | I tend to be good at that. Without trying, I offend. I do apologize. | 08:00 |
| @rizen | you're not offending | 08:00 |
| @snapcount | tias? | 08:00 |
| @rizen | just stop | 08:00 |
| @preaction | perlbot tias | 08:00 |
| perlbot | Try It And See: the best way to learn if something works. | 08:01 |
| @snapcount | well, I'm afraid it would work but not be working for the reasons I thought it was | 08:01 |
| @snapcount | if the there was no eval, that would be like a fatal correct? | 08:01 |
| @snapcount | execution would stop immediately | 08:01 |
| @preaction | it's just like exception handling in java, if it gets to a certain level (level 0 depth, as it were), it will be handled by the interpreter, which will kill the program | 08:02 |
| @preaction | yes | 08:02 |
| @snapcount | ok... so why use croak instead of die? What's the difference? | 08:02 |
| @rizen | read pbp | 08:02 |
| @rizen | seriously | 08:02 |
| @rizen | cover to cover | 08:02 |
| @rizen | and when you' | 08:02 |
| @rizen | re done | 08:02 |
| @rizen | read it again | 08:02 |
| @preaction | snapcount: or at least read perldoc Carp | 08:02 |
| @rizen | your job and life depend on it | 08:02 |
| @preaction | perlbot docs for Carp | 08:03 |
| perlbot | Documentation for 'Carp' can be found here: http://xrl.us/udvi | 08:03 |
| perlDreame1 | die tells you where it died. | 08:03 |
| perlDreame1 | Croak tells you where it got called from | 08:03 |
| perlDreame1 | It's like those undefine Asset bugs we keep chasing down | 08:03 |
| @preaction | it might be best to use confess sometimes | 08:03 |
| @snapcount | ok that's what I got from the book, is that the only difference | 08:03 |
| @snapcount | I guess that's what I was really asking | 08:04 |
| @rizen | yes | 08:04 |
| @rizen | but that's huge | 08:04 |
| @rizen | HUGE | 08:04 |
| @rizen | H-U-G-E-!-! | 08:04 |
| @snapcount | yeah I understand... debug will be much easier | 08:04 |
| @snapcount | instead of db->resultset errors, we'll know who sent the shitty query | 08:04 |
| @rizen | Michael Steele, the former governor of Maryland, looks like a white guy in black face. | 08:12 |
| @rizen | http://www.steeleformaryland.com/ | 08:12 |
| @preaction | how can the admin account become "deactivated"? | 08:13 |
| @preaction | i think parallels is pissing me off | 08:14 |
| @rizen | if a user with admin rights sets it like that in the user manager | 08:14 |
| @preaction | that did not happen... | 08:14 |
| @rizen | if the function that prevents admins from deactivating themselves in the auth module | 08:14 |
| @rizen | isn't working | 08:14 |
| @rizen | there is a deactivate link | 08:15 |
| @rizen | when viewing "your account" | 08:15 |
| @preaction | it's already been deactivated, it's the only admin account, and i'm trying to find a way to get it reactivated in the db | 08:15 |
| @preaction | it magically became deactivated for some reason | 08:16 |
| @rizen | update the user table | 08:16 |
| @rizen | users | 08:16 |
| @preaction | i see why... the auth method got changed, and that auth method deactivates me if i don't have some profile field i assume, i don't know because frank wrote it... | 08:18 |
| PedersenMJ | Is 1:30 for me, way past time for me to hit the sack. Will see you all tomorrow. Have a good night! | 08:22 |
| perlDreame1 | good night, dude | 08:22 |
| perlDreame1 | I'm going to log off, too | 08:22 |
| perlDreame1 | 5:00am was way early this morning | 08:23 |
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| wgGuest61 | hi | 12:33 |
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| ckotil | One of my system engineers tells me that http proxy doesnt handle large files intelligently enough. Can anyone comment on this? | 17:07 |
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| PedersenMJ | good morning. | 17:24 |
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| @snapcount | good morning | 17:30 |
| PedersenMJ | How's it going? | 17:30 |
| @snapcount | not bad | 17:30 |
| * ckotil is annoyed. | 17:30 | |
| @snapcount | I implemented our new error handling strategy in a pretty complex workflow activity | 17:31 |
| @snapcount | it works really nice | 17:31 |
| ckotil | i switched from using http proxy asset to inline our external tools with our website, now using iframe. and tons of dual scrolling complaints have surfaced. | 17:31 |
| @snapcount | of course I had errors initially and I was able to find them pretty quickly | 17:31 |
| ckotil | snapcount: in an attempt to fix the ldap workflow bug? | 17:31 |
| @snapcount | it was also very easy to dispatch concise error messages w/o mucking up the code | 17:31 |
| @snapcount | so I'm sold on it | 17:31 |
| PedersenMJ | So, not bad at all, snapcount. Nice job. | 17:32 |
| @snapcount | no | 17:32 |
| @snapcount | this was a tracker activity for a client | 17:32 |
| ckotil | better error messages would be great. | 17:32 |
| @snapcount | basically generates some summary data of what content managers have been up to | 17:32 |
| ckotil | ohh, wikd. | 17:33 |
| @snapcount | yeah... it's kind of cool actually | 17:33 |
| @snapcount | at first I was like "boring" | 17:33 |
| ckotil | can you get summary for any group? | 17:33 |
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| @snapcount | you could actually the way I wrote it with a slight modification | 17:33 |
| ckotil | ive heard from my group, people wanting some sort of auditing funcitonality in webgui. just like that | 17:34 |
| @snapcount | I use the everyone group to generate a user list | 17:34 |
| ckotil | nice. | 17:34 |
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| @snapcount | so making the group a parameter to the activity ui would be trivial | 17:34 |
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| @snapcount | good lord | 17:34 |
| PedersenMJ | I guess he really doesn't like wgGuest* for a name. | 17:35 |
| @snapcount | I'll see if we can get the client to release the code back into the community | 17:35 |
| @snapcount | if they say ok, I can post it in contribs | 17:35 |
| * ckotil crosses his fingers | 17:35 | |
| @snapcount | I thought it would be very easy to write | 17:35 |
| @snapcount | but the devil is in the details | 17:35 |
| @snapcount | so I actually had to think a bit | 17:36 |
| @snapcount | the inhumanity... making me think... sigh* | 17:36 |
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| PedersenMJ | Speaking of easy to write: I checked out moinmoin -> wgwiki last night. If we have access to the data files that make up the wiki, the script should be fairly easy to handle. | 17:37 |
| @snapcount | that's cool | 17:37 |
| PedersenMJ | The only "bad" part, so far as I can tell, will be arbitrary file attachments. | 17:38 |
| ckotil | so its going to require more than just a new wiki template? | 17:38 |
| PedersenMJ | And even that shouldn't be too bad. | 17:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Definitely requires more. moinmoin stores all data in files, versus in a db. | 17:39 |
| ckotil | the user wont cae how the data is stored just how it looks. | 17:39 |
| ckotil | care* | 17:39 |
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| PedersenMJ | Well, if you want to use the wgwiki component, it has to go into the database. | 17:41 |
| ckotil | right. i think it would be possible to create a moinmoin look alike template. | 17:43 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, yeah, it would. My goal is to import an existing moinmoin site into wgwiki. | 17:43 |
| ckotil | ah now i gotcha. | 17:43 |
| ckotil | heh. moinmoin makes me think of da ali g show | 17:44 |
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| wgGuest86 | ? | 17:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Hi there. | 17:46 |
| wgGuest86 | #help | 17:46 |
| wgGuest86 | sorry | 17:46 |
| PedersenMJ | Heya JT. Was just saying that it looks like a script to convert an existing moinmoin wiki into wgwiki should be relatively easy. | 17:46 |
| PedersenMJ | No worries. Whassup? | 17:47 |
| @rizen | cool | 17:50 |
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| PedersenMJ | heya wg91. | 17:59 |
| wgGuest91 | hey | 18:00 |
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| PedersenMJ | BTW, folks: if you don't already know about it (and I didn't until 10 minutes ago) http://linkchecker.sourceforge.net/ very nice. Only problem is that it wants a lot of memory on a large site. | 18:04 |
| PedersenMJ | Correction: Site with lots of URLs (which is different from a site with lots of traffic, both of which are large0 | 18:04 |
| ckotil | ive been using htcheck successfully for some time now. | 18:09 |
| ckotil | it rocks. | 18:09 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm looking for something which will tell me all links on a site, not just dead. Will htcheck do that? | 18:09 |
| ckotil | and then i have nagios check htcheck's php generated report for dead links. | 18:09 |
| ckotil | yes. | 18:09 |
| ckotil | and it has a very powerful search engine | 18:09 |
| ckotil | i point nagios to a page that has searched for all pages with 401 errors. and it usually says no occurances found. should it ever read anything nagios alerts us. | 18:10 |
| PedersenMJ | How does it handle sites w/lots of links? Currently, I'm at over 62000 links on this new site (which is frightening in and of itself). | 18:10 |
| ckotil | and then i go and fix the link. | 18:10 |
| ckotil | its very nice | 18:10 |
| ckotil | im at ~ 2000 , and it has no problems. | 18:10 |
| PedersenMJ | Thanks. I don't know if I'll switch over or not, but it's worth it to check out. | 18:11 |
| ckotil | and in the conf you configure it to only crawl your domains. and set external check to FALSE. and you will be fine. | 18:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, linkchecker, btw, started running into memory issues when the machine had 128M of ram, and I crossed around 12000 links. | 18:12 |
| ckotil | im running htcheck on a machine w/ dual 2.5 xeons and 512 ram. | 18:12 |
| ckotil | heh, same machine that runs webgui. ive got another gig of ram scheduled to be installed next week. | 18:12 |
| ckotil | webgui runs fine on it now. im anxious to see what the ram upgrade does for performance | 18:13 |
| PedersenMJ | Damn, now I'm starting to suspect something weird about linkchecker. 149K links seems like it's *awfully* high. | 18:29 |
| PedersenMJ | And it's still running. | 18:29 |
| ckotil | its pry going out of your scope | 18:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, the urls are all still pointing at our internal site. | 18:30 |
| PedersenMJ | It's got to be the new search engine, that's the only thing that makes sense. | 18:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, it is. Over 100K links from the searching. | 18:31 |
| ckotil | yikes | 18:32 |
| ckotil | do you use any http proxy assets? | 18:32 |
| PedersenMJ | No, this isn't (unfortunately) webgui. | 18:33 |
| ckotil | ah. | 18:34 |
| PedersenMJ | This is me getting a list of links I can use for load testing the new website that some other company built. | 18:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Better, trying again, but reducing screen output to regular status messages. Should make it run faster. | 18:45 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: did you do something I should know about? | 18:45 |
| @snapcount | lots of tests are failing | 18:45 |
| @snapcount | looks like it's related to tacking ?noCache onto a bunch of urls in the tests | 18:45 |
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| @snapcount | well I figured out what's causing the thing to blow up | 19:06 |
| @snapcount | not sure why yet | 19:07 |
| @snapcount | found it | 19:16 |
| @snapcount | dang it perlDreamer this is not what I was expecting from you as birthday present | 19:16 |
| @snapcount | I'm hurt | 19:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, didn't know today was your bday. Despite the gift from pD, I hope it's a happy one. | 19:17 |
| @snapcount | thanks | 19:18 |
| @snapcount | and btw I'm just giving him crap | 19:18 |
| PedersenMJ | I don't doubt it. I still hope it's a good one despite bugs :) | 19:18 |
| @snapcount | hey look at that... things are passing now | 19:18 |
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| @snapcount | hi wgGuest12 | 19:33 |
| @snapcount | you can change your nick by typing /nick yourname | 19:33 |
| @snapcount | if you want to of course | 19:33 |
| wgGuest12 | hi I am just testing | 19:33 |
| wgGuest12 | nick todor_k | 19:33 |
| @snapcount | you need the / first | 19:33 |
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| todor_k | I'ts cool :-) | 19:34 |
| @snapcount | I'm glad you like it | 19:34 |
| @snapcount | anyways, welcome and have fun | 19:34 |
| todor_k | 10X | 19:34 |
| todor_k | this is PJIRC? | 19:35 |
| @snapcount | yes | 19:38 |
| todor_k | by the way thanks for your replies on my post | 19:41 |
| pjesi | is there no "remember me" cookie available? | 19:49 |
| * PedersenMJ has a chocolate chip cookie, if that'll help. | 19:51 | |
| pjesi | give | 19:52 |
| pjesi | :) | 19:52 |
| * PedersenMJ gets it tron-scanned. It should be on its way by now. | 19:53 | |
| pjesi | hehe | 19:54 |
| pjesi | I just noticed that YUI is included in WG | 19:55 |
| pjesi | stupid me, manually uploading it | 19:55 |
| PedersenMJ | What's YUI? I've seen the acronym once or twice, but don't know what it does/is. | 19:57 |
| @rizen | Yahoo User Interface | 19:58 |
| @rizen | it's their javascript library | 19:58 |
| pjesi | and CSS | 19:58 |
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| pjesi | not sure though were it resides in WG | 19:58 |
| @rizen | www/extras/yui | 19:58 |
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| pjesi | I mean src from the tempalte to include them in the page | 19:59 |
| pjesi | ooh | 20:00 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, thank you. | 20:00 |
| pjesi | I just replicated microsofts frontpage using yui in 30 minutes | 20:01 |
| pjesi | very nice library | 20:01 |
| pjesi | I have an idea to make WG more appealing to the masses | 20:06 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: I'm back | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | what's up with the smoke tests? | 20:10 |
| @snapcount | you broke them all to hell! | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | how could you | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | j/k | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | you did break them though | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I haven't gotten any emails yet. | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | nor postings on the site | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | which tests are failing? | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | it's fixed now | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | look at my commit for the release and you'll see what was wrong | 20:11 |
| ckotil | perlDreamer: can I get your group visualation script from you? | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | "Lead me, thuktun" | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | you set proxyCache on | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | and left it | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | crap! | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | other tests didn't like that very much | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | which test script | 20:12 |
| @snapcount | pageUrl test | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, PageUrl test | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm 0 for 2 | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil: did you get my priv msg yesterday? | 20:13 |
| +perlDreamer | It only does SVG | 20:13 |
| +perlDreamer | and it's at home on my laptop | 20:13 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, why haven't we seen any Smoke Test emails yet? | 20:15 |
| ckotil | err. did not get the pm. | 20:16 |
| ckotil | svg is fine. | 20:16 |
| ckotil | we have a version of our network weathermaps in svg | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | nice. | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | The thing doesn't scale very well. | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I prototyped it using relationships in the help system | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | and it barfed on the entire Help file. | 20:16 |
| ckotil | heh | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | If your group structure is large or highly complex, it may do the same | 20:17 |
| ckotil | it's fairly simple now. | 20:17 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'll send it to you tonight | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | did you get my response to your pm? | 20:17 |
| ckotil | im not getting anything in pm. you getting mine? | 20:18 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'm getting yours | 20:18 |
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| ckotil | odd. are you registered with freenode? | 20:18 |
| ckotil | +e | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 20:18 |
| ckotil | very strange | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll log out and back in | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | brb | 20:19 |
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| -!- wgGuest32 [n=wgGuest3@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui | 20:37 | |
| wgGuest32 | hi | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | howdy | 20:37 |
| gooeybot | hola, perlDreamer | 20:37 |
| wgGuest32 | at which hour 7.3.6 will be posted? :) | 20:37 |
| @snapcount | I'm working on that now | 20:38 |
| @snapcount | within the next 30 mins | 20:38 |
| wgGuest32 | cool thanks | 20:38 |
| @snapcount | you can download from plainblack.com now if you'd like | 20:38 |
| @snapcount | np | 20:38 |
| wgGuest32 | oh so it's on sourceforge already | 20:38 |
| @snapcount | it's not published, but it's there | 20:39 |
| wgGuest32 | ok | 20:39 |
| @snapcount | we have a downloads section on plainblack.com also | 20:39 |
| @snapcount | and it's available there now | 20:39 |
| wgGuest32 | yep seeing that now :) | 20:39 |
| wgGuest32 | just wondering if this applet has been integrated with WebGUI... | 20:42 |
| wgGuest32 | Does WebGUI pass to it the "nick" parameter for example? | 20:43 |
| wgGuest32 | so users logged in plainblack.com are logged with their username in the IRC channel | 20:44 |
| @snapcount | no... that's on my list of things to do though | 20:47 |
| @snapcount | we are going to be re-organizing some of our content it looks like | 20:48 |
| @snapcount | so I'm holding off on the fancy stuff | 20:48 |
| wgGuest32 | ah you mean on plainblack.com? | 20:51 |
| @snapcount | yes | 20:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Yay! 7.3.6 is out, now to upgrade/install like crazy :) | 20:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Thank you! | 20:55 |
| @snapcount | man | 20:55 |
| wgGuest32 | done for me already :) going to test the site now | 20:55 |
| @snapcount | you guys are quick | 20:55 |
| @snapcount | I haven't even announced it yet =) | 20:55 |
| wgGuest32 | eheh | 20:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I heard it was leaded on an IRC channel | 20:56 |
| wgGuest32 | because you guys are slow! :D | 20:56 |
| wgGuest32 | just kidding | 20:56 |
| @snapcount | actually it would be "you guy" | 20:56 |
| @snapcount | aka me | 20:56 |
| @snapcount | and yeah, I'm slow | 20:56 |
| wgGuest32 | I meant plainblack staff :P | 20:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, JT put put a note a day or two ago about it coming out today. You mentioned earlier it would be within 30. And now I can see it on the site. | 20:57 |
| wgGuest32 | well I'm the first that upgraded it seems :P | 20:57 |
| @snapcount | yeah... I'm close to breaking my 30 min promise | 20:57 |
| @snapcount | putting out a stable release is a lot of work | 20:57 |
| @snapcount | not counting bug fixes | 20:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, it's released. Just the press release isn't done. | 20:57 |
| @snapcount | just packaging and distributing, etc | 20:58 |
| @snapcount | it's not published on sourceforge yet either | 20:58 |
| wgGuest32 | damn it broke my page design... There is no more a "small view" of the calendar | 20:58 |
| @snapcount | I think in the end you will be happy with the calendar | 20:59 |
| @snapcount | it will be a pain if you have custom templates at first | 20:59 |
| @snapcount | but it's much better than the old one imo | 20:59 |
| wgGuest32 | indeed I've seen it on the demo sites but I need a "small calendar" like I had before :( | 20:59 |
| @snapcount | look for preaction if he signs on | 21:00 |
| @snapcount | he wrote it the new calendar | 21:00 |
| wgGuest32 | ok | 21:00 |
| @snapcount | can probably give you some pointers | 21:00 |
| wgGuest32 | thanks | 21:00 |
| @snapcount | I'm sure it's just templating | 21:00 |
| wgGuest32 | damn it's too large for my design and it doesn't shrink... | 21:04 |
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| wgGuest32 | and it's not internationalized! How's that? :( | 21:05 |
| wgGuest32 | it doesn't pick the internationalized DateTime for example | 21:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | good work snapcount! | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | the release looks good so far on this end | 21:10 |
| @snapcount | thank you sir | 21:12 |
| @snapcount | wgGuest32: it should be i18n | 21:12 |
| @snapcount | if it's not then you should file a bug report | 21:12 |
| @snapcount | and harass preaction when he comes in here =) | 21:13 |
| wgGuest32 | it's not unfortunately.. I'm going to check the template now to see if it calls i8n | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | either the calendar or the event doesn't | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't recall which | 21:13 |
| @snapcount | I think he just sets the label in the template | 21:13 |
| @snapcount | instead of returning label template vars | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | there's always next week | 21:14 |
| @snapcount | ain't that the truth | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | I should be available all three days for additional bug fixing bandwidth | 21:14 |
| @snapcount | that rocks | 21:14 |
| @snapcount | I'm really glad you'll be around | 21:14 |
| wgGuest32 | well whoever wrote the Calendar, didn't took enough cofee lol | 21:15 |
| +perlDreamer | doug works hard. It will be fixed. | 21:15 |
| @snapcount | wow this upgrade sure does take a long time when the server has 100+ sites on it | 21:16 |
| +perlDreamer | He also spends a lot of time in here helping people. | 21:16 |
| PedersenMJ | Doug is good people. | 21:17 |
| wgGuest32 | cool | 21:17 |
| PedersenMJ | There's four people that have already taught me more about wG in the past two weeks than I figured out on my own in the prior year: rizen, snapcount, perlDreamer, and preaction. I owe them all a huge thank you, and am contributing what I can to give that thank you. | 21:18 |
| wgGuest32 | here it is! | 21:20 |
| wgGuest32 | he coded the Calendar templates without i8n calls! | 21:20 |
| wgGuest32 | bah | 21:21 |
| ckotil | PedersenMJ: same | 21:21 |
| ckotil | they rock | 21:21 |
| wgGuest32 | 2 month of debug and there is no i8n for Calendar :( | 21:22 |
| @snapcount | you can help out if you want by submitting a patch | 21:23 |
| @snapcount | if you do that it will likely be in the release next wednesday | 21:23 |
| wgGuest32 | ok I'll see what I can do | 21:26 |
| wgGuest32 | I don't have much time though :( | 21:26 |
| wgGuest32 | what does the Feeds tab in the Calendar asset do? | 21:28 |
| wgGuest32 | there are no docs yet for it | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | submit a bug/patch for that, too | 21:32 |
| @snapcount | I'm not sure wgGuest32 | 21:34 |
| @snapcount | I haven't had time to play with the calendar much yet | 21:34 |
| wgGuest32 | ok | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | isn't that a listing of iCal feeds that are pulled _into_ this calendar? | 21:34 |
| wgGuest32 | really? | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | I think so | 21:34 |
| wgGuest32 | I'll try on a demo server | 21:35 |
| wgGuest32 | if it's that way though, it's strange that as default example there is google.com in the field... | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | doesn't google have a calendar product? | 21:41 |
| wgGuest32 | sure but not on google.com anyway | 21:41 |
| wgGuest32 | rather something like that instead... icalshare.com | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | does that work? | 21:42 |
| wgGuest32 | I'm trying just now :) | 21:42 |
| wgGuest32 | mmh doesn't seem to work | 21:43 |
| wgGuest32 | mystery... :D | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | that makes 3 bug reports | 21:45 |
| wgGuest32 | well gtg guys! Could you please file those bug reports? Here's a bit late | 21:46 |
| wgGuest32 | completely different timezone | 21:46 |
| ckotil | does webgui use port 8080? | 21:46 |
| ckotil | by default* | 21:46 |
| ckotil | for anything | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | 80 and 81 for WRE | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | spectre is something in the 32000's | 21:46 |
| ckotil | ok. thanks | 21:46 |
| wgGuest32 | tried with well known .ics and RSS feeds but didn't work | 21:47 |
| wgGuest32 | ok goodnight guys! | 21:47 |
| PedersenMJ | wg32: I think the hint was that *you* should file them. | 21:47 |
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| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ++ | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | that's almost worse than lurking | 21:47 |
| PedersenMJ | Not that he'll ever pay attention to it. | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | come in, gripe, don't take the suggestions then leave | 21:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Heck, even I file bug reports. Well, as long as I'm dealing with companies/groups who care. I don't bother with MS, but will always do so here. | 21:48 |
| @snapcount | I'm sure it will get better before it gets worse now that it's easier to get in here | 21:49 |
| @snapcount | eh | 21:49 |
| @snapcount | other way around | 21:50 |
| PedersenMJ | I would have said it quicker, but have to be watching another job while I fine tune it. | 21:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh well. What an we do? | 21:51 |
| +perlDreamer | whether they're filed or not, in this case, those are known bugs | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | so it's okay | 21:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Hopefully, the next ones will pay attention to the suggestion better. | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | away for lunch for a bit | 21:56 |
| pjesi | even if they will be pain, it is worth it | 22:09 |
| pjesi | is anyone wokring on a small month view template for the calendar? | 22:10 |
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| pjesi | I think I will have to update my 7.0 ajax small view calendar template to 7.3 to keep my boss happy | 22:11 |
| pjesi | should be easy to import since yui is included in WG now | 22:12 |
| +perlDreamer | you could even publish it as a package | 22:13 |
| pjesi | hmm, never done that, to the filesystem you mean? | 22:13 |
| +perlDreamer | Well, I mean two things | 22:14 |
| +perlDreamer | 1) You _will_ have to update your template since the 7.3 calendar is very different from the earlier one | 22:14 |
| +perlDreamer | but you could publish your new template as a package to help out other people who are in the same fix | 22:14 |
| +perlDreamer | on the PB's website in the contributed area | 22:14 |
| pjesi | I know I have to | 22:16 |
| pjesi | and I will contribute it when finished | 22:17 |
| pjesi | and I will probably also contribute the Google/Youtube Video Asset I made last weekend | 22:18 |
| +perlDreamer | that sounds cool. | 22:18 |
| pjesi | (with Hinrik) | 22:18 |
| pjesi | but I better ask my boss if he doesnt mind | 22:18 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: ping | 22:37 |
| @preaction | what? busy, sorry | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | do you have a patch for the TemplateToolkit bug, or is it okay if I work on it? | 22:37 |
| +crythias | howdy | 22:44 |
| +perlDreamer | hey, crythias! | 22:44 |
| * crythias has been very sick recently. | 22:44 | |
| +perlDreamer | you getting over it? | 22:45 |
| +crythias | taking a while. I'm sweating lots right now. | 22:45 |
| +crythias | I've been thinking about this. http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/2006/08/30/seamlessdisplay_triplemonitor/ | 22:46 |
| ckotil | oh hell yeah | 22:47 |
| +crythias | and it occurs to me ... | 22:47 |
| ckotil | the price? | 22:47 |
| +crythias | $16k | 22:47 |
| ckotil | yeah.. haha | 22:47 |
| +crythias | what if a game allowed a 90 degree second or third monitor | 22:48 |
| +crythias | that is, in a FPS, the "Look left" and "Look right" ... already exists "in a monitor" | 22:49 |
| ckotil | i wonder how many inputs it takes/requires? | 22:50 |
| +crythias | the tomshardware takes 3 | 22:50 |
| ckotil | jeezus. it cant possibly cost anywhere near that much then | 22:50 |
| +crythias | 3 DVI | 22:51 |
| +crythias | it's all about lenses and really big optics | 22:51 |
| +crythias | 50" diag | 22:51 |
| +crythias | 4800x1200 | 22:51 |
| +crythias | http://www.seamlessdisplay.com/products_radius320.htm | 22:52 |
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| +crythias | http://www.seamlessdisplay.com/products_horizon320.htm | 22:53 |
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| +crythias | http://www.9xmedia.com/pages-Build_a_system/X-Top_Design_a_system-Configurations.html | 22:56 |
| +crythias | 9x has more reasonable (?) pricing... low end thirty 15" screen is less than $21K | 23:00 |
| ckotil | ckotil: fuck.your.it.policy | 23:00 |
| ckotil | woops | 23:01 |
| +crythias | 3 across at 9x is a mere $2400 at 15" per screen | 23:02 |
| +crythias | somehow... I don't think this is in the same class anymore. | 23:02 |
| ckotil | shit. i liked that passphrase | 23:03 |
| ckotil | theres no fancy lens at 9x | 23:08 |
| PedersenMJ | heh, ckotil: Sites that don't really need to send me an email, but demand my address, get a familiar address: nospam@biteme.com | 23:20 |
| ckotil | i do the same thing | 23:21 |
| ckotil | i mostly just cuss in my passphrases now | 23:21 |
| ckotil | until i spam it to an irc channel , then i gotta change it | 23:21 |
| ckotil | take out some anger on a passphrase ;] | 23:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh, you'd like my passphrases. Here's an example of one (that I've just made now, and never used): wyw1TiRC | 23:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Book title, page number, first letter of line, until I reach a minimum of eight characters. Oh, for book title: It's the initials of the title. | 23:23 |
| PedersenMJ | And I try to restrict myself to out of print books, too. | 23:24 |
| ckotil | cool | 23:24 |
| PedersenMJ | I can always remake the password, as long as I know the book and page. | 23:25 |
| ckotil | thats a good system. | 23:27 |
| PedersenMJ | It's worked for a while. Just gotta be careful with where they get used. | 23:29 |
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| --- Day changed Thu Jan 25 2007 | ||
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| cap10morgan | is there a utility out there that can copy content from one webgui site to another? | 00:50 |
| cap10morgan | or, alternatively, what would i have to do in a script to do that? i can grab the asset using WebGUI::Asset::new, but then when i close the session to that site, is that asset object still usable? | 00:55 |
| cap10morgan | and then how would i duplicate the asset on a new site? | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | cap10morgan, you want to use the wG package system | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | it's designed to do that already | 00:58 |
| cap10morgan | oh yeah? | 00:58 |
| cap10morgan | what / where is it? | 00:59 |
| cap10morgan | does it work w/ 6.6.5? | 00:59 |
| +perlDreamer | oh | 01:00 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe. | 01:00 |
| +perlDreamer | that's real old | 01:00 |
| cap10morgan | yes, yes it is | 01:08 |
| cap10morgan | :) | 01:08 |
| +perlDreamer | cap, you could try it | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't remember when it got added to wG. | 01:11 |
| cap10morgan | is it part of the api? | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | the UI | 01:12 |
| cap10morgan | oh, ok | 01:13 |
| cap10morgan | so, i created some packages, but how do i get them from one site to another? | 01:18 |
| +perlDreamer | now you would import the package in the new site | 01:18 |
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| +perlDreamer | yo, don | 01:19 |
| @rizen | yo | 01:19 |
| +perlDreamer | no bug fixing today, too much $dayJob | 01:19 |
| @rizen | for you? | 01:20 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 01:20 |
| @rizen | i was doing priority bug fixes ffor support all day | 01:20 |
| @rizen | and still am | 01:20 |
| @rizen | so i'm doing bug fixes | 01:20 |
| @rizen | but not off the bug list | 01:20 |
| +perlDreamer | bugs are bugs | 01:20 |
| +perlDreamer | listed or not | 01:20 |
| @rizen | i had to rewrite a large portion of the pop email system today | 01:21 |
| @rizen | to fix one bug | 01:21 |
| @rizen | took me 5 hours | 01:21 |
| @rizen | for one bug | 01:21 |
| +perlDreamer | ouch | 01:21 |
| +perlDreamer | for some stuff that's my normal speed | 01:21 |
| +perlDreamer | but I'm an amateur | 01:21 |
| @rizen | 90% of that time was just trying to figure out what was wrong | 01:21 |
| cap10morgan | sorry, i'm not finding this anywhere. how would i go about importing a package? :) | 01:25 |
| +perlDreamer | in 6.6.5 I couldn't tell you | 01:25 |
| @rizen | you can't in that old of a release | 01:27 |
| @rizen | you need 7.x | 01:27 |
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| cap10morgan | hmm, that's what i was afraid of | 01:28 |
| * PedersenMJ is heading home as well. Will see you guys later. | 01:29 | |
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| cap10morgan | what would you recommend for copying content from one 6.6.5 site to lots of other sites? :) (we're working on the 7.x upgrade, but not ready yet) | 01:29 |
| @rizen | you should upgrade anyway | 01:30 |
| @rizen | it's simply not possible with 6.6 | 01:30 |
| @rizen | not without just taking a dump of the database | 01:30 |
| @rizen | and creating all the new sites from that dump | 01:30 |
| cap10morgan | hmm | 01:33 |
| cap10morgan | does it make any difference if i just need to copy one asset and its descendants to a bunch of other existing sites (w/ the same layout, so the asset will live in the same place on other sites)? | 01:39 |
| @preaction | not really, you're still either doing it manually or upgrading to a version that has the package system | 01:42 |
| cap10morgan | 6.6.5 has a notion of "packages", but i assume it's too primitive to do what i'm wanting? | 01:43 |
| @preaction | durno, JTs probably the only person here who knows, but i assume since he said you can't do it... | 01:44 |
| cap10morgan | yeah, generally a good indicator of being SOL. :) | 01:44 |
| cap10morgan | well, damn. i can't *wait* until we're running on 7.x... sigh... | 01:45 |
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| @rizen | sorry, was on phone | 01:55 |
| @rizen | no it doesn't make any difference | 01:55 |
| @rizen | there's no API in 6.6 to do data transfer | 01:55 |
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| @preaction | you know, right before i hit "reload" on my last test for fixing the calendar migration, i told myself i couldn't cry out "About Damn Time" like an idiot and make my neighbors think i've completely lost my nut | 03:01 |
| @preaction | ... but i did it anyway | 03:01 |
| Radix-wrk | as you do | 03:14 |
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| +perlDreamer | is anyone else able to close bugs? | 04:53 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: i'm here, but be afraid: i'm very very hungry | 04:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll send you a pizza if you can close some bugs for me | 04:56 |
| @preaction | which ones? | 04:57 |
| +perlDreamer | top two | 04:57 |
| +perlDreamer | on the list | 04:57 |
| @preaction | ldap workflow and DateTime stuff? | 04:57 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 04:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I tried to close them and they didn't close | 04:57 |
| +perlDreamer | Tried the LDAP workflow one twice | 04:57 |
| @preaction | um... i tried to close them and they didn't close | 04:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll send you a pizza anyway | 04:58 |
| +perlDreamer | you like Papa John's? | 04:58 |
| @preaction | don't worry about it | 04:58 |
| @rizen | report it as another bug | 04:59 |
| @rizen | and i'll work on it either later tonight | 04:59 |
| @rizen | or tomorrow morning | 04:59 |
| +perlDreamer | k | 04:59 |
| @preaction | yup, it's borked | 04:59 |
| @preaction | why, oh why does the gf pick NOW to start a fight? | 05:01 |
| +perlDreamer | It's spiritual. | 05:01 |
| @preaction | ordained? | 05:01 |
| Radix-wrk | instinctual | 05:01 |
| @rizen | wait! you have a gf?!?!? | 05:01 |
| +perlDreamer | Go fight. We'll still be here when you're done. | 05:01 |
| @preaction | yes, oh, and i am | 05:02 |
| Radix-wrk | yeah, you lied on your interview preaction | 05:02 |
| @preaction | i didn't have one then :p | 05:02 |
| Radix-wrk | hehe | 05:02 |
| @rizen | you know about the lords providence right? | 05:02 |
| @rizen | hehe | 05:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I know about gf's, SO's, etc. and fights | 05:02 |
| @preaction | you've mentioned as much, but since she's larger than you i doubt you'll be taking it :p | 05:02 |
| @rizen | why? | 05:03 |
| @rizen | i'm not picky | 05:03 |
| @preaction | oh, have at then | 05:03 |
| @rizen | i'll wait until she calms down | 05:03 |
| @rizen | you go take care of that | 05:03 |
| @rizen | =) | 05:03 |
| @rizen | and have dinner | 05:03 |
| @preaction | oh duh! papa's has those chicken tenders | 05:04 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: I'm tellin' ya. We should go after Papa John's | 05:05 |
| +perlDreamer | Once we run their site we're made | 05:05 |
| @rizen | yeah yeah...i think we need to be bug free first | 05:05 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, and the commerce stuff | 05:05 |
| @rizen | yeah | 05:05 |
| @rizen | i'm also thinking about going after milios | 05:06 |
| @rizen | which is a local sub shop that's going national | 05:06 |
| @rizen | their current site is a pos | 05:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm afk 'til 7:30 PST | 05:06 |
| +perlDreamer | be back then | 05:06 |
| @preaction | one last thing before i go: there seems to be an issue with urls being created with 111111111112 at the end (it's trying to increment, and instead of going to 20, it goes to 110), is that something i should concern myself with? | 05:07 |
| @rizen | yeah, we should figure out why that is | 05:08 |
| @rizen | but in general, it's not too big of a problem | 05:08 |
| @preaction | k, screw em | 05:08 |
| @rizen | it's more athstetic than problematic | 05:08 |
| @preaction | when we fix it, we can probably include a utility that will fix their URLs if they want | 05:09 |
| @rizen | who is they? | 05:09 |
| @preaction | i assume anyone who made a recurring event with either the old EventsCalendar or the new Calendar, anything that makes an inordinate amount of assets with a same url | 05:11 |
| @preaction | but any asset could do it, theoretically | 05:11 |
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| Radix-wrk | Shh.. he's here. | 05:23 |
| PedersenMJ | Heh. Heya. | 05:23 |
| Radix-wrk | Oh.. Hi PedersenMJ - didn't see you arrive | 05:24 |
| PedersenMJ | It's great how this client bolds the whole line when my name appears on it. Makes you seem like you're shouting almost. Or, in this case, going for one of those sitcom "Whoa, how did that happen?" type of lines :) | 05:25 |
| Radix-wrk | PedersenMJ, most clients do that. | 05:29 |
| Radix-wrk | It can get quite annoying too PedersenMJ - as I'm sure you'll agree. | 05:29 |
| Radix-wrk | ;) | 05:29 |
| @preaction | i've set up colloquy to get OSX to speak "Better Look at me Boss, I got Problems" whenever someone says my name | 05:29 |
| @preaction | now i just need it to listen when i say "I've got my own!" | 05:30 |
| Radix-wrk | really preaction? - doesn't that drive you barmy? | 05:30 |
| PedersenMJ | preaction: I don;'t think you should have mentioned that here. | 05:30 |
| @preaction | nope, it wakes me up when i need to be | 05:30 |
| @preaction | but little white lies don't hurt anyone | 05:30 |
| Radix-wrk | uhuh | 05:30 |
| +perlDreamer | back | 05:34 |
| +perlDreamer | how many of you guys have SVG viewers? | 05:36 |
| * PedersenMJ grabs that character from Family Circus, and holds him up: Not Me! | 05:37 | |
| PedersenMJ | Will one come with OSX, 10.5? I think I'll be picking up a Mac in about 6 months (once I can figure out how to gather up the $3600 for what I want). | 05:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know | 05:48 |
| +perlDreamer | but I'm not liking the SVG that I'm seeing anyway, so I'll probably switch to PNGs anyway | 05:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I found a way to graph the group relationships | 05:48 |
| +perlDreamer | of wG groups | 05:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool. | 05:49 |
| @rizen | PedersenMJ: where are your pics of alaska again | 05:49 |
| @rizen | sarah and i are planning a trip up there | 05:49 |
| PedersenMJ | http://photos.icelus.tzo.com/ | 05:49 |
| PedersenMJ | Want places to go? I can recommend some, definitely. | 05:50 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, and if you're wanting to get up there for fishing, book it this week, and book it for mid June. Book it any later than this week, and you won't get anything in that time frame. And mid June is when the King Salmons are running. | 05:51 |
| @rizen | we're thinking about taking a cruise | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Don't. | 05:54 |
| @rizen | for a week or so | 05:54 |
| @rizen | really? | 05:54 |
| @rizen | why not? | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Cruises are great. Magnificent. And you'll go around one of the longest shorelines in the world. And miss all of Alaska. | 05:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Yes, you'll go on the shore at regular intervals, but you will miss more than you can begin to imagine. | 05:55 |
| @rizen | the one's we've been looking at stop 5 or 6 times so that you can do all day excursions | 05:55 |
| @rizen | bah | 05:55 |
| @rizen | we're not wilderness types | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | Graph::Easy sucks | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | Don't use it | 05:55 |
| @rizen | yeah use WebGUI::Graph | 05:55 |
| PedersenMJ | Let me put it this way: Alaska is over 600,000 square miles. Population is about 700,000. | 05:56 |
| @rizen | i know how big it is | 05:56 |
| @rizen | my aunt lives up there | 05:56 |
| @rizen | i can go anytime i want | 05:56 |
| @rizen | i just don't | 05:56 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool. You can get info from her on how much you will miss on the cruises. Make no mistake, as I said, they're great. I still think the interior is better. | 05:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll use WebGUI::Graph after someone write a directed graph with optimized nodal placement. | 05:57 |
| +perlDreamer | plugin | 05:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Stupid question time: Why not use dot? | 05:58 |
| @rizen | pd, you should write said plugin | 05:58 |
| @rizen | you're super crazy smart like that | 05:58 |
| +perlDreamer | isn't spring better? | 05:59 |
| +perlDreamer | (than dot) | 05:59 |
| PedersenMJ | JT: One place to make sure you stop, if at all possible, whichever method you take, is Homer. Great little town. | 05:59 |
| PedersenMJ | Dunno. Never used or heard of spring until now. | 05:59 |
| +perlDreamer | so what's dot? | 05:59 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.graphviz.org/ | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, so think neato or fdp instead | 06:01 |
| +perlDreamer | they use spring | 06:01 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay. Have heard of neato. Dunno squat about it, I admit, but have at least heard of it. | 06:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, JT: Probably not worth it to try to see Denali. Visit the area, just don't expect to see the mountain. Locals claim it's hidden by clouds around 80% of the time. | 06:03 |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ: spring is just an optimized placer for making "prettier graphs" | 06:07 |
| +perlDreamer | JT's right | 06:08 |
| +perlDreamer | building a WG::Image plugin for directed graphs would be good. | 06:08 |
| PedersenMJ | Hmmm, just found issue with the Burned theme that I need to fix. Calendar controls can be hidden by the login box. | 06:17 |
| PedersenMJ | correction: login div. | 06:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, now I'm feeling really dumb. I *know* this should be easy, but I can't figure out how to unlock a locked file. Any tips? | 06:24 |
| +perlDreamer | Files are locked while they are being edited under a different version tag | 06:25 |
| +perlDreamer | either commit the tag, or set it to be your working tag | 06:25 |
| PedersenMJ | As far as I can tell, this is actually a committed version of the file. | 06:26 |
| PedersenMJ | By that I mean that I go to the file under Assets, and click the lock. The version tag it takes me to it shows as a committed tag. | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | hmmm | 06:27 |
| PedersenMJ | I suppose I could delete the files, purge them, and then re-import the package. | 06:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, won't let me delete them, either. | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | when you exported the package, were the assets committed? | 06:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Yes. | 06:29 |
| * PedersenMJ checks on the demo site to make sure. | 06:30 | |
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| @rizen | did you try triple clicking | 06:31 |
| PedersenMJ | No, that I haven't. | 06:31 |
| @rizen | i'm kidding | 06:32 |
| @rizen | but you could try not sucking so much | 06:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay, on demo-site, it worked correctly. | 06:32 |
| @rizen | if you have an asset that's locked, and you're 100% sure it's committed | 06:32 |
| @rizen | you have two options | 06:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Actually, I *have* had apps that used a triple click. Not in a very long time, to be sure. | 06:32 |
| @rizen | either delete the revision that's locked | 06:33 |
| @rizen | or manually go to the database and run this command | 06:33 |
| PedersenMJ | I'll go with delete the rev that's locked. | 06:33 |
| @rizen | update asset set lockedBy=null where assetId='XXXX'; | 06:33 |
| Radix-wrk | restart spectre | 06:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Deleting the rev that was locked worked. | 06:35 |
| PedersenMJ | Thank you. | 06:36 |
| PedersenMJ | And, for the record, I am trying not to suck so much. Getting a good handle on a system the size of webgui is difficult, to say the least. At least I'm learning, instead of a constant repeat of the same issues. | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | $suckage{PedersenMJ}-- | 06:37 |
| Radix-wrk | Only time I've ever had assets lock like that was when I found spectre had gone into fairyland. Quick restart of spectre fixed it. Not sure if you tried that PedersenMJ - but might be worth a try next time if you didn't. | 06:40 |
| Radix-wrk | I restart spectre automatically every night these days. | 06:41 |
| +perlDreamer | that's not very encouraging | 06:41 |
| PedersenMJ | This could have been related to the DBD::mysql version issue I had. I think I might have tried to instantiate the package with the old version. And I seem to recall seeing something in the logs for that site about problems with a workflow executing. | 06:42 |
| Radix-wrk | No, it's not - but it's a workaround | 06:42 |
| Radix-wrk | I'm still using 7.0.8 - so the spectre issues might have been worked out by now.. I don't know. | 06:42 |
| @rizen | many of the spectre issues have been worked out | 06:42 |
| @rizen | both in spectre code | 06:43 |
| @rizen | and by upgrading POE | 06:43 |
| @rizen | and IKC | 06:43 |
| @rizen | but there's still one or two i have to work out | 06:43 |
| Radix-wrk | cool | 06:43 |
| +perlDreamer | what is the <label> tag? | 06:44 |
| @rizen | damn led bulbs | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | <tr><td><label for="isProtected_formId"><tmpl_var protectQuestionLabel></label></td><td><tmpl_var formProtect></td></tr> | 06:45 |
| @rizen | it hooks the label to the field | 06:46 |
| @rizen | and is required for xhtml compliance | 06:46 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 06:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I have my i18n Nazi hat on tonight. | 06:46 |
| @rizen | i'm sorry. not xhtml compliance | 06:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm reviewing all the templates for embedded English | 06:46 |
| @rizen | but rather certain other compliances | 06:46 |
| @rizen | for impaired viewers | 06:47 |
| +perlDreamer | accessability requirements? | 06:47 |
| @rizen | yeah | 06:48 |
| @rizen | WAI compliance | 06:48 |
| PedersenMJ | It was preaction that wrote most (if not all) of the current Calendar code, correct? | 06:48 |
| +perlDreamer | yawp | 06:48 |
| @rizen | and also Section 508 | 06:48 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, preaction: Nice job with the calendar. I like it! | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | The quest for total i18n will need to continue tomorrow. | 06:55 |
| +perlDreamer | Good night, guys | 06:55 |
| PedersenMJ | g'night! | 06:56 |
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| PedersenMJ | Now, is time for bed for me too. Later! | 07:26 |
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| @preaction | bah, lightweights | 07:36 |
| * preaction breaks out DDR | 07:36 | |
| Hinrik | just wondering... | 07:38 |
| Hinrik | is there a way to use Template-Toolkit within WebGUI? | 07:38 |
| @preaction | yes, i just gave a recipe to DoS on how | 07:47 |
| @preaction | install TT, and then add "WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit" to the list of "templateParsers" in your configuration file | 07:48 |
| Hinrik | cool, thanks | 07:48 |
| @preaction | so the section should look something like this: "templateParsers" : { "WebGUI::Asset::Template::HTMLTemplate","WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit" } | 07:49 |
| Hinrik | [ ] :) | 07:49 |
| @preaction | or that | 07:49 |
| @preaction | it would be something you could add to the wiki, if you'd like | 07:50 |
| @preaction | and then submit to the WCC | 07:50 |
| @preaction | gooeybot wcc? | 07:50 |
| gooeybot | hmmm... wcc is WebGUI Community Contest or http://plainblack.com/wcc | 07:50 |
| Hinrik | where's the wiki? | 07:50 |
| gooeybot | the wiki is, like, http://wiki.webgui.org or yet another place to get help with WebGUI | 07:50 |
| Hinrik | heh | 07:50 |
| @preaction | gooeybot, i take back all those bad things i said. i love you | 07:51 |
| gooeybot | preaction: huh? | 07:51 |
| @preaction | fine... be that way | 07:51 |
| Hinrik | what are "karma points" ? | 07:53 |
| -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: Current WebGUI Version: 7.3.6 (stable) .:. Congratulations Doug! http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/pbwg-meet-doug-bell | 07:53 | |
| @preaction | whoa radix hold on a second, babe | 07:53 |
| @preaction | 7.3.6 is NOT to be installed | 07:53 |
| Radix-wrk | Oh? | 07:54 |
| @preaction | i've spent 10 hours fixing it | 07:54 |
| Radix-wrk | I know I'm not installing it.. but wasn't it released today? | 07:54 |
| @preaction | 7.3.7 will be released tomorrow, and that will be okay to install | 07:54 |
| @preaction | yes, it was | 07:54 |
| Radix-wrk | Ahh.. k | 07:54 |
| -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: Current WebGUI Version: 7.3.6 (dodgy beta) .:. Congratulations Doug! http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/pbwg-meet-doug-bell | 07:54 | |
| @preaction | there's also a notice that you shouldn't install it | 07:54 |
| @preaction | roflrofl | 07:54 |
| @preaction | tomorrow roy will make 7.3.7 and all will be well | 07:54 |
| Hinrik | how long until there's a 7.4.0 ? | 07:55 |
| Radix-wrk | Hinrik, karma is an accumulation of points you get for being active in the community - posting, helping out others, contributing to the wiki, etc.. | 07:55 |
| @preaction | Hinrik: karma points are things you get for posting on the forums, and making rated posts. you can spend it by adding karma to RFEs you want to see | 07:55 |
| gooeybot | points are things you get for posting on the forums, and making rated posts. you can spend it by adding karma to rfes you want to see has neutral karma | 07:55 |
| @preaction | whoa | 07:55 |
| Hinrik | RFE? Request for ...enhancement? | 07:55 |
| @preaction | yeah | 07:55 |
| Hinrik | ok | 07:56 |
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| @preaction | example: i have 3600 karma just sitting, i've yet to find an RFE to put it into | 07:57 |
| Radix-wrk | pfft.. I can give you one that needs it | 07:57 |
| @preaction | if it needs it that badly, i'll just Do it :p | 07:58 |
| Hinrik | preaction: how many people are working on WebGUI? | 07:58 |
| Radix-wrk | http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/search-asset-returns-urls#dJFHM0zCgZF6FkF00Z07uA | 07:58 |
| Radix-wrk | It's been rated difficult it seems - so even though I've pumped heaps into it it's still ranked low | 07:59 |
| @preaction | either difficult or "JT no likey" | 07:59 |
| Radix-wrk | Without it though, search is pretty crappy at best | 07:59 |
| @preaction | it does sound a little difficult though, what page should we get? what if it's not part of a page layout? | 08:00 |
| @preaction | should we just return the parent of the asset unless the asset is of a certain type? (page layout, wiki, calendar, etc...) | 08:00 |
| Radix-wrk | that'd work | 08:01 |
| @preaction | optional, i suppose | 08:01 |
| @preaction | well, doesn't the search return Threads instead of Posts? | 08:01 |
| @preaction | at any rate, i should get some exercise in before sleep and waking up in 8 hours. the stupid 7.3.6 failure means i don't have clean clothes or groceries... | 08:03 |
| Radix-wrk | Good luck convincing the gf :) | 08:04 |
| * Radix-wrk whistles innocently. | 08:04 | |
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| Radix-wrk | Well I'm off guys - Australia day tomorrow so you won't hear much from me for the next few days ;) | 09:39 |
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| -!- wgGuest16 is now known as greghacke | 15:27 | |
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| greghacke | Morning. | 16:24 |
| @rizen | afternoon | 16:25 |
| greghacke | That too... Ever realize there are people out there who use Lotus Notes for selling products online? | 16:25 |
| greghacke | on another note - where the JAVA tool is nice, is there a better IRC app to log in with? | 16:28 |
| ckotil | on windows theres mIRC | 16:31 |
| ckotil | osx has colloquy | 16:31 |
| ckotil | unix has irssi, bitchx | 16:31 |
| greghacke | i've got bitchx on my nix box. on my laptop - trying mIRC | 16:34 |
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| -!- wgGuest73 is now known as greghacke | 16:36 | |
| greghacke | which server should I hit for access to the #webgui channel? | 16:37 |
| ckotil | irc.freenode.net | 16:37 |
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| pjesi | afternoon | 16:47 |
| pjesi | Hinrik: why should you want to use TT over HTML::Template? | 16:48 |
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| greghacke | T::T provides much greater flexibility over the HTML::Template especially in the creation of Virtual Methods, filters and variable bindings | 17:00 |
| greghacke | learning curve is of course higher | 17:00 |
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| * PedersenMJ waves. | 17:54 | |
| ckotil | are there any good docs for running a webgui backup server? | 18:19 |
| pjesi | greghacke: why should you want that in the presentation | 18:19 |
| ckotil | im thinking setting up load balancing between two servers will basically function as a backup server. | 18:20 |
| pjesi | you want two mysql instances as well? | 18:21 |
| ckotil | yes, we will have 2 instances of mysql | 18:22 |
| pjesi | you can rsync the filesystem and look at mysql docs on how to mirror it | 18:23 |
| ckotil | we're worried about replicating webgui's files. and what the best way to do this would be. | 18:23 |
| pjesi | ok, I suggest rsync the wb files | 18:24 |
| pjesi | wg even | 18:24 |
| greghacke | pj: sorry for the delay - I use it for technical documentation. as I create tiers of list items, I use it to create the item numbers | 18:36 |
| ckotil | then theres the matter of resyncing hte back up to the main webgui instance. | 18:36 |
| greghacke | pj: in tech docs, I will have a section 9.1.4.11.7 and I want it to say that vice having to crawl up the page to find out where I am. I use TT to build it | 18:37 |
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| pjesi | k | 19:35 |
| greghacke | There are other functions, that's just one I use. | 19:37 |
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| wgGuest25 | hi | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | howdy | 20:21 |
| wgGuest25 | I upgraded to 7.3.6 yesterday and after that, I deleted my Calendars (there were just a couple of events in them) | 20:21 |
| wgGuest25 | Now I need to follow those special patch steps? | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I haven't read the release notes yet. | 20:22 |
| wgGuest25 | :( | 20:22 |
| wgGuest25 | I mean those steps apply also to brand new calendars created with 7.3.6? Shouldn't be so | 20:25 |
| xdanger | rizen: just a thought... why not add "tagging-system" for every asset via metadata? | 20:26 |
| xdanger | or at that style | 20:27 |
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| xdanger | he didn't like the idea ?-) | 20:38 |
| ckotil | heh | 20:39 |
| ckotil | what would the tagging system do? | 20:39 |
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| xdanger | There was talk on the dev-list about tags in wiki... | 20:39 |
| ckotil | ah. | 20:39 |
| xdanger | It could be a nice addition to cs and wiki, maybe even articles... | 20:40 |
| xdanger | kinda like metadata is at the moment for some things.. | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe it's exactly like metadata... | 20:41 |
| xdanger | But there could be some functionality for the end luser... like finding cs-posts with tag "cat" | 20:44 |
| ckotil | yeah. | 20:44 |
| xdanger | I've implemented cs with categories for our clients site... | 20:45 |
| ckotil | or ad metadata to file assets so that you can perform more advance search on them. e.g. search by date, author, topic, etc... | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | you can add metadata to file assets already,can't you? | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | use the metadata tab on the edit screen? | 20:46 |
| ckotil | im going to need to find a automatic'ish way of adding meta data to my file assets (weekly outage reports) | 20:46 |
| ckotil | yeah i know. but i need to do it programmatically | 20:46 |
| ckotil | i have a utility script that a cgi script calls to insert files into webgui. i can pry add the code in the utility to add the meta data | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | if it's in the UI, you can do it through the API | 20:47 |
| ckotil | :] its wikd awsome. | 20:47 |
| @snapcount | who broke the tests this time? | 20:49 |
| * snapcount taps his foot with a hand on his hip | 20:49 | |
| +perlDreamer | Am I 3 for 3? | 20:49 |
| @snapcount | or the code that we're testing | 20:49 |
| +perlDreamer | haven't seen the smoke tests yet | 20:49 |
| +perlDreamer | clue me in, dude | 20:49 |
| @snapcount | t/Session/Var | 20:49 |
| @snapcount | lastPageView set correctly | 20:49 |
| @snapcount | 3 <= 1 | 20:49 |
| @snapcount | and same for expires set correctly | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | let me finish fixing this bug, and I'll have a look at it | 20:50 |
| @snapcount | cool | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | has anyone done any work in that area recently? Session stuff? | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | did it fail yesterday? | 20:51 |
| @snapcount | I haven't looked yet | 20:51 |
| @snapcount | Well, it didn't fail when I ran it before the release this morning | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | there was a commit to Asset.pm today | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | but the smoketest reported it | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | what time did the smoke test run? | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | doh | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | looks like it's already fixed | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | email came at like 6a and I ran the test several hours after that | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | what fixed it? | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | and it's passing now | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | I don't know | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | we should probably invest-a-magate eh | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | almost done here | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | I need to write another huge code scanning test for bad template variables | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | uh, is PB okay? | 20:56 |
| @snapcount | what do you mean? | 20:57 |
| ckotil | i can access the website fine | 20:57 |
| @snapcount | can't you get the current asset from the session? | 20:57 |
| @snapcount | $session->asset? | 20:57 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: yes | 20:57 |
| @snapcount | is that the syntax? | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I raced spectre and won. I clicked on Reply on a Post and got the main page instead of a form | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 20:58 |
| @snapcount | ty | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: do you know if SVN time is kept in UTC? | 21:00 |
| @snapcount | I don't know wth it is | 21:01 |
| @snapcount | I can tell you it's not my timezone for sure =P | 21:01 |
| @snapcount | always wondered about that though | 21:02 |
| +perlDreamer | There's been no commits to Session for a long time | 21:02 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount, those tests do delta time checks | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | they could occasionally fail | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll see if they can be robustified | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | the real question is why would it take 2 seconds to execute 6-8 lines of test code? | 21:05 |
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| xdanger | snapcount: when will you fix (or try to) the rss bug in the SVN::Web ?-) | 21:07 |
| @snapcount | uhh | 21:09 |
| @snapcount | I'm guessing it's something I promised to fix and forgot about? | 21:09 |
| @snapcount | or no | 21:09 |
| @snapcount | cuz it rings no bells. | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | We didn't write that module. If there's a bug, we should either upgrade or you could post a bug back to the author. | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: robustification complete | 21:10 |
| wgGuest25 | any reply for me? :( | 21:12 |
| @rizen | wgGuest25, yes | 21:13 |
| @rizen | if you had calendars before the upgrade | 21:13 |
| @rizen | you need to redo | 21:13 |
| @rizen | cuz there will be broken data in your database | 21:13 |
| @rizen | even if you deleted those assets | 21:13 |
| wgGuest25 | I had but I deleted them afterwards because they were not important... | 21:13 |
| wgGuest25 | oh... | 21:14 |
| wgGuest25 | but why that? Doesn't WebGUI delete also the database portions of them when you delete? | 21:15 |
| @rizen | just trust me | 21:15 |
| wgGuest25 | ok | 21:15 |
| wgGuest25 | so the issue was at the calendar core not just regarding migration from old events calendar | 21:16 |
| wgGuest25 | I don't know if I have time to do that this week... It's ok to follow those steps also when 7.3.8 will be released? | 21:18 |
| @rizen | you have to restore from backup | 21:19 |
| @rizen | so you can't wait or you'll lose data | 21:19 |
| wgGuest25 | true :( | 21:20 |
| @rizen | anything that is added to the site or modified between when you did the upgrade | 21:20 |
| @rizen | and when you do the restore | 21:20 |
| wgGuest25 | So "Congratulations Doug!" up there seems rather hironic | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | Congrats has to do with nominated as PBWG | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | we all make mistakes | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | and should have the grace to accept them from others | 21:22 |
| wgGuest25 | I know I read the interview | 21:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Wow, this one sounds really bad. Without trying to dig into the what: I've got an instance of 7.3.5 in which I've just added a calendar. I was going to go to 7.3.7 this weekend. How bad will the issues be, or do I need to read them? | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | Read them | 21:23 |
| PedersenMJ | read them... meant to say do I need to redo them? | 21:23 |
| @rizen | if you didn't add any calendars until after you're on 7.3 then there will be no problems | 21:24 |
| @rizen | likewise, if you only have one site in your webgui server | 21:24 |
| @rizen | you won't have any problems | 21:24 |
| wgGuest25 | rizen: really? I also have one site | 21:25 |
| @rizen | then you're fine | 21:25 |
| wgGuest25 | so I don't have to follow those steps? I can just upgrade to 7.3.7? | 21:25 |
| @rizen | yes | 21:26 |
| wgGuest25 | cool thanks! | 21:26 |
| -!- wgGuest25 [n=wgGuest2@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has quit [] | 21:30 | |
| PedersenMJ | Sorry for that idle. Thank you very much, that's quite a relief, actually. | 21:40 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o perlDreamer] by rizen | 21:49 | |
| greghacke | rizen - you still out there? | 21:55 |
| @rizen | sometimes | 21:56 |
| @snapcount | did we just hire Colin? | 22:04 |
| @snapcount | please say yes | 22:04 |
| @rizen | to replace you | 22:05 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by rizen | 22:05 | |
| snapcount | the way today has been it might actually be a relief | 22:05 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v snapcount] by rizen | 22:05 | |
| +snapcount | put me out of my misery... the pitty killing | 22:05 |
| @rizen | what has been so hard for you today? | 22:06 |
| +snapcount | people | 22:06 |
| +snapcount | nothing technical or task related | 22:06 |
| +snapcount | I'm having a bad day | 22:06 |
| +snapcount | a really bad one actually... the kind that fester in your mind and eat at your soul | 22:07 |
| -!- snapcount was kicked from #webgui by perlDreamer [perlDreamer] | 22:07 | |
| -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 22:07 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 22:07 | |
| @snapcount | sheesh | 22:07 |
| @perlDreamer | He resurrected! | 22:07 |
| @perlDreamer | no way | 22:07 |
| @snapcount | quick to flex those new found muscles | 22:08 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by snapcount | 22:08 | |
| -!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: Current WebGUI Version: 7.3.7 ... preaction the diplomat | 22:18 | |
| @preaction | there were two months for people to try the new calendar, two months for them to realize that it was RADICALLY different from the previous calendar, and finally NOW that they've been forced to do it, they have issues... | 22:49 |
| @perlDreamer | what I don't get is how many people gripe about bugs, but either don't fix them themselves or pony up to have them fixed. | 22:50 |
| @preaction | amen to that | 22:52 |
| @preaction | JT found another issue with the upgrade, but this one is fixable after-the-fact thank god | 22:52 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, preaction: My two cents on the calendar? I like it. Thank you. | 22:52 |
| @perlDreamer | is the new issue documented in the announcement? | 22:53 |
| @preaction | you're welcome, it was an ordeal and i believe someone else said it best: I did it the first time to see how to do it, I'd like to do it again to do it right | 22:53 |
| @preaction | i'll make a bug report there if there isn't already | 22:53 |
| PedersenMJ | My *sole* issue with the calendar was my own fault. Basically, a stylesheet issue with the Burned theme. Which, I might add, I've already fixed. | 22:57 |
| @preaction | can you think of any major problems with those things existing? | 22:58 |
| @preaction | i think i'll have to go through and migrate all the calendars again, this time making sure to include the clipboard, trash, and any other special states | 22:58 |
| @preaction | uhm. those assets can't be instanciated since there's no longer an EventsCalendar table. | 23:03 |
| * perlDreamer is offline, afk for chow | 23:13 | |
| greghacke | I like the new calendar as well - so do my clients | 23:16 |
| @preaction | once the kinks get exercised out, there are plenty of other wonderful things we're going to do with it | 23:16 |
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| @preaction | i've got a total of four tables i need to delete from, and that's all i can think of: asset, assetData, wobject, and assetIndex (the Events don't have entries in the wobject table) | 23:40 |
| --- Day changed Fri Jan 26 2007 | ||
| xdanger | preaction: is there an approval system with the new calendar? | 00:01 |
| rizen_ | yes | 00:02 |
| @preaction | for user-edited events? no, but the code is there. all that's necessary is for a configuration value to be shown on the edit calendar, and the code updated to reflect that | 00:02 |
| rizen_ | it works just like the CS | 00:02 |
| rizen_ | what? | 00:02 |
| rizen_ | that was supposed to be added | 00:02 |
| @preaction | there's no select box to select which workflow yet | 00:02 |
| rizen_ | that was on the spec | 00:02 |
| rizen_ | please add that for your todo list for 7.3.8 | 00:03 |
| @preaction | indeed | 00:03 |
| rizen_ | it's not complete without that | 00:03 |
| @preaction | luckily it should be simple enough with the new autocommit code | 00:03 |
| rizen_ | yeah, it should only be a couple lines of code | 00:04 |
| xdanger | yey! | 00:06 |
| xdanger | I can then convert my cs-made-to-calendar crap to that =D | 00:06 |
| @preaction | would there be an issue with this code for, say, 10,000 events that need to be deleted? "select assetId from asset where className="WebGUI::Asset::Event" and assetId NOT IN (select assetId from Event)" | 00:06 |
| @preaction | i've run it on a site with 1000 events that need to be deleted, and it runs in 0.01 seconds | 00:07 |
| xdanger | now if only it had some categories, or tags or such =) | 00:07 |
| rizen_ | no idea | 00:07 |
| rizen_ | but i'm guessing no | 00:07 |
| rizen_ | Jukka, you're a coder aren't you? | 00:07 |
| @preaction | i'm thinking that the keys are proper, and as long as i'm using the keys it should be fine, so it goes in | 00:07 |
| -!- rizen_ is now known as rizen | 00:08 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ | 00:08 | |
| xdanger | rizen_: some, not my favorite thing... | 00:08 |
| @preaction | aww, coding is life | 00:08 |
| @rizen | oh, i thought you were | 00:08 |
| xdanger | not fulltime... mostly customer and leader stuff these days... | 00:08 |
| xdanger | but have a big project comming, so I think that it'll be something like 70% coding/working on that project and 30% else... | 00:09 |
| @rizen | i was going to say you should add the features you want when we branch for 7.4 | 00:10 |
| @rizen | or better yet, help us fix bugs so we can branch for 7.4 faster | 00:10 |
| @perlDreamer | need a double check | 00:10 |
| @perlDreamer | no underscores in template variable names? | 00:10 |
| @rizen | no, that's fine | 00:11 |
| @rizen | just no dots | 00:11 |
| @perlDreamer | Okay. Thanks :) | 00:11 |
| @perlDreamer | The coding guidelines say no underscores. I'll update it | 00:11 |
| @perlDreamer | oh, no I won't | 00:11 |
| @perlDreamer | the wiki doesn't work in Mozilla 1.4 | 00:11 |
| @rizen | are there any languages you can think of that _ cause a problem | 00:12 |
| @rizen | when in variable names | 00:12 |
| @rizen | or subroutines | 00:12 |
| xdanger | rizen: I have added... we have our own "extented collaboration system"... and a few diff's here and there... I can show you them if you want to here... Some of them are just to get around some problems that are specific to our clients site... | 00:12 |
| @rizen | xdanger: i'm talking about contributing to the core | 00:12 |
| @perlDreamer | I only know HT, HTE and TT. I could check Mason real quick. | 00:13 |
| @rizen | not talking about templating language | 00:13 |
| xdanger | s/if you want to here/if you want to hear/ | 00:13 |
| @rizen | i'm talking about programming langs | 00:13 |
| @perlDreamer | none | 00:13 |
| @rizen | then underscores are fine | 00:13 |
| @perlDreamer | almost all of them I know of treat _ as a valid "word" character | 00:13 |
| @perlDreamer | maybe befunge... | 00:13 |
| @perlDreamer | nope, it only pukes on arrows | 00:14 |
| @perlDreamer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Befunge | 00:14 |
| @preaction | rizen: should I fix the 7.2.3-7.3.0 upgrade anyway? for those who haven't upgraded yet? | 00:43 |
| * perlDreamer crosses his fingers | 00:43 | |
| @preaction | in regards to the EC on the trash/clipboard | 00:44 |
| @rizen | sure | 00:44 |
| @preaction | k | 00:44 |
| @rizen | as long as you won't screw anything up | 00:44 |
| @rizen | when your code is run | 00:44 |
| @rizen | in the 7.3.8 | 00:44 |
| @rizen | upgrade | 00:44 |
| @preaction | nope, it only deletes things if they're verified to be broken | 00:44 |
| @perlDreamer | w.r.t the Project Manager, what is Lag Time? | 00:47 |
| @perlDreamer | if anyone had a little spare time, I could use some help with i18n work on WebGUI core templates | 01:20 |
| @perlDreamer | basically, what needs to be done is to go through each template one by one and identify words in English. | 01:21 |
| @perlDreamer | then we go through and replace them with internationalized labels | 01:21 |
| @perlDreamer | the hard part is the template cruising | 01:21 |
| @rizen | i disagree | 01:21 |
| @perlDreamer | why for? | 01:22 |
| @rizen | just cuz | 01:22 |
| @perlDreamer | oh, okay | 01:22 |
| @rizen | where cuz is a good reason | 01:22 |
| @rizen | a really really good reason | 01:22 |
| @perlDreamer | So long as you aren't calling Vito and Tommy Knuckles | 01:22 |
| @rizen | no, but would you consider performance a good enough reason | 01:23 |
| @perlDreamer | I hadn't thought about performance | 01:23 |
| @perlDreamer | so wG isn't fully i18n'ed? | 01:23 |
| @rizen | well i have this ingenius plan | 01:23 |
| @rizen | but im not sure it will work | 01:23 |
| @rizen | cuz i have a flaw in my plan | 01:23 |
| @preaction | when trying to fix the issue of EC on the clipboard, the EC state gets changed to "published" by the upgrade script. how do I make it not do that? | 01:23 |
| @rizen | find out what's changing the state | 01:24 |
| @rizen | somewhere along the way something must be calling $asset->publish | 01:24 |
| @preaction | k | 01:25 |
| @perlDreamer | plan on, rizen | 01:25 |
| @rizen | well...i've been thinking that we always load all these variables | 01:25 |
| @rizen | even when nobody is using them | 01:25 |
| @rizen | would it make more sense to use a macro to fetch them | 01:25 |
| @rizen | ^International("something","Events_Calendar'); | 01:26 |
| @rizen | or whatever | 01:26 |
| @rizen | because then we're only fetching the ones we need | 01:26 |
| @perlDreamer | would the overhead of Macro processing beat not creating all the labels? | 01:26 |
| @rizen | and we're not passing so much data through the template engine | 01:26 |
| @rizen | methinks that speed wise it would break even | 01:26 |
| @rizen | but where we win is on memory usage | 01:27 |
| @rizen | we're not making copies of all those lables in memory | 01:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Would that break existing templates? | 01:27 |
| @perlDreamer | we'd have to translate them | 01:27 |
| @rizen | yeah, we'd translate them | 01:28 |
| @perlDreamer | but rizen has a regexp/text hacking genius that he calls up for projects like this | 01:28 |
| @rizen | but here's the major flaw in my hand | 01:28 |
| @rizen | plan | 01:28 |
| @rizen | not hand | 01:28 |
| PedersenMJ | How about custom templates? Rather, styles (such as the ones I've recently made) | 01:28 |
| @rizen | brain not working | 01:28 |
| @rizen | all templates would be fixed, now shhhh | 01:28 |
| @rizen | the major flaw is that if they were all fetched by i18n macro, how would the users know which ones were available for fetching | 01:29 |
| @perlDreamer | we'd have to make a new doc page with available labels | 01:29 |
| @perlDreamer | just like we do now for templates | 01:29 |
| @perlDreamer | it's not that bad | 01:29 |
| @perlDreamer | a variables section and a labels section | 01:30 |
| @rizen | phone | 01:31 |
| @perlDreamer | we should add Macro level caching. It might speed things up with that idea. | 01:31 |
| @perlDreamer | think about processing a chain of Posts. Each post would still be calling Macro with identical labels N times (one for each one in the displayed section of the Thread). | 01:33 |
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| @rizen | orry | 02:02 |
| @rizen | back | 02:02 |
| @rizen | macro caching will only slow it down | 02:02 |
| @perlDreamer | okay, so Macros vs template labels for i18n | 02:02 |
| @rizen | the fields are already in memory | 02:02 |
| @rizen | there's nothing to cache | 02:02 |
| @perlDreamer | every time you call International, it creates a new i18n object | 02:02 |
| @rizen | yeah, and if you call cache it has to create a WebGUI::Cache object | 02:03 |
| @rizen | you're not saving anything | 02:03 |
| @perlDreamer | oh | 02:03 |
| @perlDreamer | not that kind of cache | 02:03 |
| @perlDreamer | a Stow cache | 02:03 |
| @perlDreamer | in memory, transient | 02:03 |
| @perlDreamer | built for each session | 02:03 |
| @rizen | ok well that might work...but let's not get ahead of our sevles | 02:03 |
| @perlDreamer | sure, one step at a time. Functionality before performance and all that | 02:04 |
| @rizen | first how do we deal with the fact that the labels aren't in the templates anymore | 02:04 |
| @rizen | from a users perspective | 02:04 |
| @rizen | how do they know what labels are available | 02:04 |
| @perlDreamer | the same way that we do for template variables | 02:04 |
| @perlDreamer | especially with the template variable editor | 02:04 |
| @perlDreamer | it makes these questions easier | 02:05 |
| @rizen | actually, couldn't we just expose every variable in the namespace to the person | 02:05 |
| @perlDreamer | every i18n variable? | 02:05 |
| @rizen | who are we to say that they shouldn't be able to use some other label | 02:05 |
| @rizen | every i18n label in the same namespace | 02:05 |
| @rizen | as the object | 02:05 |
| @rizen | that's using the template | 02:05 |
| @rizen | so if it's a calendar template | 02:06 |
| @rizen | then all the variables in Asset_Calendar | 02:07 |
| @perlDreamer | from i18n/Language/Asset_Calendar.pm | 02:07 |
| @perlDreamer | and then all of them from WebGUI, since that's the fallback if it can't be found in the current namespace | 02:07 |
| @rizen | why do that though? | 02:08 |
| @rizen | why not just show them all variables? | 02:08 |
| @rizen | in that namespace | 02:08 |
| @perlDreamer | I'm a little confused. Do you mean template vars or i18n variables? | 02:08 |
| @rizen | forget everything i've just said | 02:08 |
| @rizen | let me start over | 02:09 |
| * perlDreamer ->flush | 02:09 | |
| @rizen | a) template variables no longer contain any i18n labels | 02:09 |
| @perlDreamer | check | 02:09 |
| @rizen | b) template help displays all the data variables | 02:09 |
| @perlDreamer | check | 02:09 |
| @rizen | c) template help has a seperate section on the same page that lists all of the i18n variables, like this: | 02:10 |
| @rizen | ^International("some thing", "Asset_Calendar"); = Some Thing | 02:10 |
| @perlDreamer | $dayJob | 02:10 |
| @rizen | and it lists EVERY SINGLE MESSAGE in the Asset_Calendar i18n file | 02:10 |
| @preaction | i've submitted my patch to the 7.2.3-7.3.0 upgrade that ensures that EC in clipboard/trash get migrated, but they still get published | 02:19 |
| @preaction | i've been over every piece of code that updates the "state" field, none of it gets called by "commit", "addChild", or "addRevision" | 02:20 |
| @rizen | why are they not deleted? | 02:20 |
| @rizen | i told you i just wanted anything in there to be deleted | 02:20 |
| @rizen | how hard is that | 02:20 |
| @preaction | that's what the 7.3.7-7.3.8 will do, if there are orphans | 02:20 |
| @rizen | don't use the asset api | 02:20 |
| @rizen | ok | 02:20 |
| @preaction | i asked if you wanted me to fix the 7.2.3-7.3.0 upgrade, you said yes | 02:20 |
| @rizen | yup | 02:20 |
| @rizen | instead of publishing the ones in the trash | 02:21 |
| @rizen | delete them | 02:21 |
| @rizen | just purge | 02:21 |
| @preaction | ok | 02:21 |
| @rizen | the clipboard ones are fine | 02:21 |
| @preaction | if they get published? | 02:21 |
| @perlDreamer | There are 184 i18n labels for the DataForm, as an example of how much data users will have to wade through | 02:24 |
| @perlDreamer | Less in an Article | 02:25 |
| @perlDreamer | Much, much more in the Post and CS | 02:25 |
| @rizen | preaction: yes | 02:25 |
| @preaction | k | 02:26 |
| @perlDreamer | Also, some labels have been specially designed to go with certain fields, etc. It would be hard to pick those out from a list. | 02:26 |
| @rizen | pd: yeah, but who are we to say what fields might be useful to the user making the template | 02:26 |
| @rizen | pd: all of them might be useful | 02:26 |
| @rizen | also don't forget that in most cases | 02:27 |
| @rizen | people either copy and modify an existing template | 02:27 |
| @rizen | or just type in their own labels anyway | 02:27 |
| @perlDreamer | Could we prevent showing the Help topic titles, bodies and hoverHelp? | 02:28 |
| @rizen | how would we do that | 02:31 |
| @perlDreamer | They'd have to be tagged somehow, or cross referenced through the Help system | 02:31 |
| @rizen | yeah, but that's what i want to avoid | 02:31 |
| @rizen | no cross-referencing | 02:31 |
| @rizen | it adds work | 02:31 |
| @rizen | my way adds no work, and actually reduces the amount of code everywhere | 02:32 |
| @rizen | and i don't think it hurts anyway | 02:32 |
| @rizen | for example | 02:32 |
| @rizen | let's say we're dealing with a post template of some sort | 02:32 |
| @rizen | you may want to use the hover help | 02:32 |
| @rizen | in your template | 02:32 |
| @rizen | as help for the fields the users are posting | 02:32 |
| @rizen | it may not be likely | 02:33 |
| @rizen | but what does it hurt to have them there | 02:33 |
| @rizen | someone went through all the trouble of creating them | 02:33 |
| @rizen | and someone else probably translated them | 02:33 |
| @rizen | so why the hell not show them | 02:33 |
| @perlDreamer | too much is usually better than not enough | 02:34 |
| @perlDreamer | and the worst that will happen is that the help entries for templates get huge | 02:35 |
| @rizen | they're already huge anyway | 02:35 |
| @rizen | but at least this way the data parts are separated from the label parts | 02:35 |
| @perlDreamer | yes | 02:35 |
| @rizen | so it's easy to find the important stuff | 02:35 |
| @perlDreamer | and the default templates would be a guide for what to do | 02:36 |
| @rizen | yup | 02:36 |
| @rizen | so now we have to test | 02:36 |
| @rizen | i'm not sure how | 02:36 |
| @perlDreamer | but, in order for the conversion to work, don't all the templates need to be fully i18n'ed? | 02:36 |
| @rizen | that i'm right | 02:36 |
| @rizen | that speed woudl be equal | 02:36 |
| @rizen | and memory would be reduced | 02:36 |
| @perlDreamer | don't you already have benchmarking code for speed? | 02:36 |
| @rizen | yes...but how do you separate out just the memory used by the template processing | 02:37 |
| @rizen | with and without the labels | 02:37 |
| @perlDreamer | that's gotta be pretty small | 02:37 |
| @perlDreamer | we're talking about 10-15 hash keys | 02:37 |
| @rizen | so are you saying this isn't worth it? | 02:38 |
| @perlDreamer | no | 02:38 |
| @perlDreamer | I'm saying that speed is probably the better trade-off, and less code. | 02:38 |
| @rizen | ok well then i guess i'll test the speed quick | 02:38 |
| @perlDreamer | I'm noticing a pattern | 02:40 |
| @perlDreamer | First, you get hammered by (support, business, conference, bugs) | 02:40 |
| @perlDreamer | Then you get what sounds like a whacky idea | 02:40 |
| @perlDreamer | that actually turns out to be awesome | 02:40 |
| @rizen | when has this happened before? | 02:41 |
| @perlDreamer | Content chunking during 6.x | 02:41 |
| @perlDreamer | Hover help | 02:41 |
| @perlDreamer | Wiki | 02:41 |
| @rizen | hmm...those are all good ideas. maybe we should do that | 02:41 |
| @rizen | =) | 02:42 |
| @perlDreamer | Well, in order to get revolutionary gains in wG you need to get stomped on. | 02:42 |
| @rizen | i don't think so | 02:42 |
| @rizen | i have done lots of stuff without getting stomped on | 02:42 |
| @perlDreamer | Okay, we'll pass on that one and just stick to the Macro idea for now. | 02:42 |
| @rizen | and honestly...i'd get a lot more done if i wasn't getting killed with other work like support and business stuff | 02:43 |
| @perlDreamer | 'tis true | 02:43 |
| @rizen | did you see how many support requests came in today? | 02:43 |
| @perlDreamer | yes | 02:43 |
| @rizen | amazing | 02:43 |
| @perlDreamer | I wrote a Wiki entry so that you won't have to answer Icon questions ever again | 02:43 |
| @rizen | nice | 02:45 |
| @rizen | thanks | 02:45 |
| @perlDreamer | have you done any work on Kristi's package content bug? | 02:46 |
| @rizen | i started on it | 02:48 |
| @rizen | didn't get anywhere | 02:48 |
| @rizen | just proved that she's right | 02:48 |
| @perlDreamer | I went and disected a package that I exported. | 02:48 |
| @perlDreamer | It looks good, so it's in the deployment | 02:48 |
| @rizen | well since making something a package is just a single field in a single table | 02:49 |
| @rizen | that's obvious | 02:49 |
| @rizen | =) | 02:49 |
| @perlDreamer | and I thought that it referred to imported packages. | 02:50 |
| @perlDreamer | oh well | 02:51 |
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| @rizen | quick everybody get out | 02:51 |
| @rizen | he's here!! | 02:51 |
| @perlDreamer | I'm heading home. We'll catch you later tonight | 02:51 |
| @rizen | run for your lives!!!! | 02:51 |
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| +crythias | who, me? | 02:52 |
| +crythias | heh | 02:52 |
| @rizen | yeah you | 02:52 |
| @rizen | who else could invoke such fear in me | 02:52 |
| +crythias | hm... iPG? | 02:53 |
| @rizen | i don't fear him...just want to kill him | 02:53 |
| +crythias | ah. | 02:53 |
| +crythias | well, um.. I don't have the keys to the kingdom anymore, I'm not giving too much advice, bad or otherwise, and basically...I'm kinda who the heck is that guy at the moment. | 02:54 |
| @rizen | why is that? | 02:54 |
| @rizen | you were good | 02:54 |
| @rizen | even great for the community | 02:54 |
| +crythias | I've been so busy at work doing everything everything and I just can't focus on WebGUI as much as I would like. I haven't even upgraded my personal sites since 6.8.7 | 02:55 |
| @rizen | whoa | 02:56 |
| @rizen | i'm sorry to hear you've been so busy | 02:56 |
| @rizen | unless you want to be that busy | 02:56 |
| +crythias | somehow in my upgrades I lost all my discussions in one of the sites, but since that wasn't a big issue, and the reason it existed (google answers commentors forum) is .. not so much the thing anymore... meh. | 02:57 |
| +crythias | and I've been beastly coughing-sick for the past week. | 02:58 |
| +crythias | out of $job for 3 days. | 02:58 |
| @rizen | crappy | 02:58 |
| +crythias | a busy release and recovery... | 03:00 |
| +crythias | (I see you've encountered) | 03:00 |
| @preaction | twas fun! | 03:01 |
| +crythias | I somewhat belatedly updated my faq, just in case anyone relied on my site for that info. | 03:01 |
| +crythias | (ie: just about 30 minutes ago) | 03:01 |
| @rizen | i hear people talking about it | 03:03 |
| @rizen | so i'm sure some people use it | 03:03 |
| +crythias | rizen: I have an idea about using an imagemagick script to make those three-d bubblethings on the fly around/about navigation or something. | 03:04 |
| +crythias | "aqua buttons" | 03:04 |
| @rizen | shoot | 03:05 |
| +crythias | that is, I'm trying to "create" it... | 03:05 |
| +crythias | but I don't know how to best use it. | 03:05 |
| +crythias | If I make it for navigation, should all nav buttons be the same size? | 03:06 |
| @rizen | then i guess you better back up, cuz i haven't heard an idea yet | 03:06 |
| @rizen | what's the idea? | 03:06 |
| +crythias | the idea is to use either a macro or css to make stuff "aquaish" on the fly. | 03:07 |
| @rizen | oh | 03:07 |
| @rizen | so you're saying all the links in your nav | 03:07 |
| @rizen | would become icons | 03:07 |
| @rizen | rather than text | 03:07 |
| @rizen | or rather image buttons | 03:07 |
| @rizen | like in OSX | 03:07 |
| +crythias | they would be text with aquabutton backgrounds and rounded edges on left and right | 03:08 |
| @rizen | you can use css to do that and no image magick and it would run faster | 03:08 |
| +crythias | Actually, I think I've solved that part. yeah. | 03:08 |
| +crythias | I've been trying to figure out the watermark issue as well. | 03:09 |
| +crythias | there's no problem with ImageMagick to make a watermark, anymore than making a thumbnail. | 03:10 |
| @rizen | what do you mean by watermark? | 03:11 |
| +crythias | for an image/photo that's uploaded, (seen on mytube.com) | 03:11 |
| +crythias | a "branding" of the image once uploaded. | 03:12 |
| @rizen | why would you want to do that on nav? | 03:12 |
| +crythias | no. :( sorry. I changed subjects. | 03:12 |
| @rizen | damn man...going to fast for me | 03:12 |
| @rizen | s/to/too | 03:12 |
| +crythias | an rfe was posted a LONG while ago to be able to apply watermarks to uploaded images (photo gallery) | 03:13 |
| @rizen | yeah, without modifying the core, i don't see how you could do this | 03:13 |
| +crythias | I was thinking macro ^WM(/friendlypath); | 03:14 |
| +crythias | but that's horrible. | 03:15 |
| @rizen | you can do that, but the problem is that it will create the watermark every single time | 03:15 |
| @rizen | cuz it won't know that the image is already watermarked | 03:15 |
| @rizen | it really needs to be done once at upload time | 03:15 |
| +crythias | I agree, and then the other things come into play... text or image watermark? where? what about contrast? | 03:16 |
| +crythias | font? color? size? | 03:16 |
| @rizen | yeah it's going to be a lot of stuff | 03:17 |
| @rizen | and every site will be different | 03:17 |
| +crythias | although, I could suggest that it'd be something like "Create your transparent background .png of 100px wide by 64 px tall and put it in ^extras/uploads/watermark.png" | 03:19 |
| +crythias | whatever | 03:19 |
| @rizen | so why is this important? | 03:22 |
| +crythias | if the image thumbnail thing finds the watermark.jpg, and the size of the image is > (something) then apply the watermark and store it as (the original|the original + the watermarked) | 03:22 |
| +crythias | it's not important | 03:22 |
| @rizen | so why do you want it? | 03:22 |
| @rizen | why are you working on it? | 03:22 |
| @rizen | or thinking about it? | 03:22 |
| +crythias | because it seemed like something fun to do at first. | 03:22 |
| +crythias | I *wanted* to do this. | 03:23 |
| +crythias | Now, I can't really see how it'd be effective. I'd almost suggest someone do it in a batch in the filesystem and not worry about WebGUI doing it. | 03:23 |
| @rizen | i can see that if we ever did a photo gallery asset that it would definitely be useful | 03:24 |
| @rizen | but as a general purpose thing, i don't think so | 03:24 |
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| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui | 04:13 | |
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| @rizen | ok pd, ran the test | 04:13 |
| +perlDreamer | and the results are | 04:13 |
| +perlDreamer | <drumroll> | 04:13 |
| @rizen | it is slightly smaller amounts of ram | 04:13 |
| @rizen | which we expected | 04:13 |
| @rizen | and...as far as speed | 04:14 |
| @rizen | .... | 04:14 |
| @rizen | .... | 04:14 |
| @rizen | .... | 04:14 |
| @rizen | ... | 04:14 |
| @rizen | can you feel the tention in the air | 04:14 |
| @rizen | .... | 04:14 |
| @rizen | ... | 04:14 |
| @rizen | ... | 04:14 |
| @rizen | 0.011308 | 04:14 |
| @rizen | 0.01563 | 04:14 |
| +perlDreamer | tention, that's when you tent fabric is too tight | 04:14 |
| @rizen | guess which is which | 04:14 |
| +perlDreamer | 0.011 is Macros | 04:14 |
| @rizen | indeed | 04:14 |
| +perlDreamer | 30%, not bad | 04:14 |
| @rizen | i ran it a dozen times | 04:14 |
| @rizen | came out roughly the same every time | 04:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Macros it is then | 04:15 |
| @rizen | so..what that comes down to | 04:15 |
| @rizen | is leave stuff the way it is | 04:15 |
| @rizen | and we'll do this in 7.4 | 04:15 |
| +perlDreamer | you sure? If I i18n it all now, then it will get autoconverted in 7.4 | 04:16 |
| +perlDreamer | or is it better to fix bugs? | 04:16 |
| @rizen | the faster we fix bugs | 04:16 |
| @rizen | the faster we can get to 7.4 | 04:16 |
| +perlDreamer | bugs it is | 04:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm going to write a test for the package thing | 04:16 |
| @rizen | i'm going to work on the open/close bug now | 04:16 |
| +perlDreamer | we should also update the copyright notices on the files in the core | 04:26 |
| @rizen | oh yeah, i have a script to do that | 04:27 |
| @rizen | frank broke it!!! | 04:37 |
| @rizen | wahoo...now we can get him off his high horse | 04:37 |
| @rizen | =) | 04:37 |
| +perlDreamer | the open/close bug? | 04:37 |
| @rizen | yup | 04:37 |
| @rizen | https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/AssetLineage.pm?revs=3603&revs=3441 | 04:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I need a little mixin help | 04:39 |
| @rizen | put the flour, egg, and milk in a bowl | 04:39 |
| +perlDreamer | nm | 04:39 |
| @rizen | then stir | 04:39 |
| +perlDreamer | I can't spell | 04:39 |
| +perlDreamer | can I deploy uncommitted assets? | 04:48 |
| @rizen | i don't know, can you? | 04:48 |
| @rizen | the answer is no | 04:48 |
| @rizen | or at least you're not supposed to be able to | 04:48 |
| +perlDreamer | you're right you can't | 04:54 |
| @rizen | i'mnot sure how, but what frank did is kicking me in the nuts | 04:54 |
| +perlDreamer | that makes two of us, except Frank probably didn't break this one :) | 04:55 |
| +perlDreamer | can I open two version tags on the same session variable? | 04:55 |
| @rizen | you can have as many as you want...but you can only have 1 working tag | 04:56 |
| @rizen | do you understand the difference? | 04:56 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 04:56 |
| @rizen | k | 04:56 |
| +perlDreamer | if I commit the current version tag, it should be useless from that point forward? | 04:57 |
| @rizen | if you mean it will no longer be the working tag and a new one will be ccreated if you do something else | 04:57 |
| @rizen | then yes | 04:57 |
| @rizen | but it's not useless | 04:57 |
| @rizen | it's still there | 04:57 |
| @rizen | it's just commited | 04:57 |
| +perlDreamer | well, here's what I'm up against | 04:58 |
| +perlDreamer | whenever I work with assets on tests, I always use version tags | 04:58 |
| +perlDreamer | but now, for the first time, I need two | 04:58 |
| +perlDreamer | one for creation of Assets, then a second one to work under for the package deployment | 04:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I probably just need to create a new one then call setWorking on it | 04:59 |
| @rizen | it will automatically become your working tag | 04:59 |
| @rizen | if you just do something that requires a tag | 04:59 |
| +perlDreamer | on creation? | 04:59 |
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| @rizen | not on creation of the tag | 05:00 |
| @rizen | but if you do an addRevision | 05:00 |
| @rizen | on an asset | 05:00 |
| @rizen | that will create a tag | 05:00 |
| @rizen | and set it working | 05:00 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 05:00 |
| @rizen | and addRevision is called when addChild is called | 05:00 |
| +perlDreamer | so I can pull the new tag after I deploy the package | 05:00 |
| +perlDreamer | and then nuke it at the end | 05:01 |
| @rizen | what is "pull" | 05:01 |
| +perlDreamer | call getWorking | 05:01 |
| @rizen | you can getWorkiong | 05:01 |
| @rizen | ok | 05:01 |
| @rizen | yes | 05:01 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry, I'm still using too much slang | 05:01 |
| @rizen | well if we were using the same slang it would be fine | 05:02 |
| @rizen | but we're not | 05:02 |
| +perlDreamer | coolio | 05:02 |
| +perlDreamer | ? | 05:02 |
| @rizen | coolio | 05:02 |
| +perlDreamer | kid time | 05:04 |
| +perlDreamer | be back in 40 | 05:04 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, I have a test that duplicates the problem | 05:34 |
| +perlDreamer | analysis time | 05:34 |
| +perlDreamer | will duplicate create an exact copy of the Asset, including the assetId? | 05:47 |
| @rizen | sorry...with sarah | 05:47 |
| @rizen | perfect duplicate, but not assetId | 05:47 |
| @rizen | or lineage | 05:47 |
| @rizen | or parentId | 05:47 |
| @rizen | the data will be the same though | 05:48 |
| @rizen | but i have to go | 05:48 |
| @rizen | be back later | 05:48 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 05:48 |
| @rizen | i'm dying over here | 05:58 |
| @rizen | i was just finally over an upper resperatory infection | 05:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I have the bug | 05:58 |
| @rizen | yesterday | 05:58 |
| @rizen | and today, i've got a new bug | 05:58 |
| @rizen | with new symptoms | 05:58 |
| @rizen | sarah got it yesterday | 05:58 |
| @rizen | which means she gave it to me | 05:58 |
| @rizen | she sux | 05:59 |
| +perlDreamer | so what's the new one like? | 05:59 |
| @rizen | cloudy head and super runny noes | 06:00 |
| @rizen | nose | 06:00 |
| @rizen | gone through 2 boxes of tissue and 1 roll of tp so far today | 06:00 |
| @rizen | and you? | 06:00 |
| +perlDreamer | the duplicate method is broken | 06:01 |
| +perlDreamer | It causes headaches and backaches | 06:01 |
| @rizen | why did you break duplicate | 06:01 |
| +perlDreamer | it breaks really well | 06:01 |
| +perlDreamer | when you dupe an asset, your original assetId gets trashed | 06:01 |
| +perlDreamer | want to see? | 06:01 |
| @rizen | i believe you | 06:02 |
| @rizen | the original asset id in the original asset? | 06:02 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 06:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I created a snippet | 06:02 |
| +perlDreamer | stored the id | 06:02 |
| +perlDreamer | called dupe | 06:02 |
| +perlDreamer | checked the assetId of dupe, and it's different from the stored original | 06:02 |
| @rizen | it's supposed to be | 06:03 |
| @rizen | i told you that | 06:03 |
| +perlDreamer | checked the assetId of the original again, and it's the same as the dupe | 06:03 |
| @rizen | oh | 06:03 |
| @rizen | that's not | 06:03 |
| @rizen | that's bad | 06:03 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 06:03 |
| +perlDreamer | can you make sure I didn't write a bad test, or are you still en-Sarah'ed? | 06:03 |
| @rizen | i'll do a test | 06:04 |
| @rizen | sarah has gone to bed | 06:04 |
| @rizen | but my head is whoooooo | 06:04 |
| +perlDreamer | over in the t directory do an SVN update and you'll see the AssetClipboard test I just committed | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | set WEBGUI_CONFIG to your favorite WebGUI config file | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | then perl AssetClipboard.t | 06:05 |
| @rizen | you're right | 06:07 |
| @rizen | screwd | 06:07 |
| +perlDreamer | back into addChild | 06:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Totally not related to the problem at hand, but still a question I should ask: When I submit this "Make Your Own WebGUI Style" article, I'm planning on including an actual conversion of an existing theme. I want to make sure the original zip file stays available (just in case). Any place I can upload to plainblack.com, or shall I just host it myself? | 06:19 |
| @rizen | you're already uploading your conversions to the contribs area right? | 06:20 |
| @rizen | so why wouldn't you just link to it? | 06:20 |
| PedersenMJ | Of course. Didn't think of that. | 06:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Attach the original zip, and the converted .wgpkg, and link. Simple. Thank you. | 06:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Was thinking of how I was going to be pasting this article into the wiki, and wasn't thinking of contribs at the time. | 06:21 |
| @rizen | if you have a problem, and if you can find them, and if no one else can help. maybe you can hire, the a-team! | 06:22 |
| PedersenMJ | I ain't gettin' on no plane foo'! | 06:22 |
| @rizen | i think i should have called plain black "the a-team" | 06:22 |
| +perlDreamer | Who's Murdoch? | 06:22 |
| @rizen | i'm all 4 of them, depending upon the second | 06:23 |
| @rizen | i'm rick james bitch | 06:23 |
| @rizen | sweet...rick james is in this episode | 06:23 |
| PedersenMJ | BTW, here's the theme I'm going to convert for that article: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3694 | 06:24 |
| PedersenMJ | Reason: It's *very* simple, so people don't get bogged down in the harder details, and can focus on the conversion process more easily. | 06:24 |
| +perlDreamer | is it URLs? | 06:25 |
| @rizen | could someone please create 1000 pages of free documentation in the wiki quick | 06:25 |
| @rizen | that way i wouldn't have to finish writing these commercial books | 06:25 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, I'm working on the docs. Only got about 990 pages to go. | 06:25 |
| PedersenMJ | pd: I don't understand what you mean. | 06:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm working on a bug with rizen | 06:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, okie. | 06:27 |
| @rizen | you are | 06:27 |
| @rizen | oh sorry pd | 06:27 |
| @rizen | didn't mean to ignore you | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I understand | 06:27 |
| @rizen | is what URLs? | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm trying to locate where $self gets stomped on | 06:27 |
| @rizen | oh...i'll start looking | 06:27 |
| @rizen | told you...brain not highly functional | 06:28 |
| +perlDreamer | I know | 06:28 |
| +perlDreamer | plus you have a thing for Rick James and George Peppard | 06:28 |
| +perlDreamer | It's inside addChild | 06:29 |
| @rizen | this doesn't seem to be possible | 06:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I know | 06:33 |
| @rizen | this flat out isn't possible | 06:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'm stuck inside addChild | 06:41 |
| @rizen | it can't even get that far | 06:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't have any way to monitor the original inside there since we're really in the parent | 06:41 |
| @rizen | there's no reference to self in add child | 06:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm guessing that something in addChild stomps on the original | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | but I check the assetId's right before the addChild call inside duplicate and it's fine there. | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | $self->session->errorHandler->warn("START RECORD"); | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | $self->session->errorHandler->warn("myself: ".$self->getId); | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | #my $newAsset = $self->getParent->addChild($self->get, undef, undef, {skipAutoCommitWorkflows=>$options->{skipAutoCommitWorkflows}}); | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | my $parent = $self->getParent; | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | $self->session->errorHandler->warn("myself: ".$self->getId); | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | my $newAsset = $parent->addChild($self->get, undef, undef, {skipAutoCommitWorkflows=>$options->{skipAutoCommitWorkflows}}, $self); | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | $self->session->errorHandler->warn("myself: ".$self->getId); | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | $self->session->errorHandler->warn("hisself: ".$newAsset->getId); | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | ew | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | gooeybot: paste? | 06:44 |
| gooeybot | i haven't a clue, perldreamer | 06:44 |
| @rizen | why are you pasting | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I wanted to show you where I've added debug code inside of sub duplicate in AssetClipboard | 06:45 |
| +perlDreamer | it has to be in or related to addChild | 06:45 |
| +perlDreamer | adding a copy of yourself to your parent | 06:45 |
| +perlDreamer | with the same exact properties, except for assetId | 06:45 |
| @rizen | ahahahhaah | 06:48 |
| @rizen | i know what it is | 06:48 |
| @rizen | i win | 06:48 |
| @rizen | i win | 06:48 |
| +perlDreamer | do tell! | 06:48 |
| +perlDreamer | tell me and I'll let you watch the end of the A-Team | 06:48 |
| @rizen | wahoo i win | 06:49 |
| @rizen | i'm better than pd | 06:49 |
| @rizen | pd sux ass | 06:49 |
| @rizen | =) | 06:49 |
| @rizen | just kidding man | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | I know | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | but I'm dyin' here | 06:49 |
| @rizen | i'll commit | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | is it that simple? | 06:50 |
| @rizen | fixed | 06:50 |
| @rizen | and commited | 06:50 |
| +perlDreamer | that's beautiful! | 06:51 |
| +perlDreamer | now how many other places do we do that? | 06:51 |
| @rizen | do you see why? | 06:51 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 06:51 |
| +perlDreamer | referential problem | 06:51 |
| @rizen | we probably do it all over | 06:51 |
| @rizen | i don't know | 06:51 |
| @rizen | so does fixing that flat out fix the packages bug? | 06:52 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'll find out | 06:53 |
| +perlDreamer | plus, this will make sure that roy isn't pissed tomorrow | 06:54 |
| @rizen | oh no, he's back | 06:54 |
| @rizen | it will? | 06:54 |
| +perlDreamer | oh yeah | 06:54 |
| +perlDreamer | he hates it when I break the smoke tests | 06:54 |
| @rizen | how's that | 06:54 |
| +perlDreamer | because I hate it when the tests are broke and grump at people when it happens | 06:54 |
| @rizen | i like it when you break the smoke tests | 06:54 |
| @rizen | cuz then i don't feel so bad when i break them | 06:55 |
| @rizen | snapcount is here, but not really | 06:56 |
| @rizen | isn't that weird | 06:56 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen, please rerun the assetClipboard test | 06:56 |
| +perlDreamer | and tell me why the test is wrong | 06:56 |
| @rizen | i don't know how to run tests | 06:57 |
| +perlDreamer | the package problem is fixed | 06:57 |
| +perlDreamer | but now a test in assetClipboard what was passing is now failing | 06:57 |
| +perlDreamer | does committing an asset change it's ID? | 06:57 |
| @rizen | nope | 06:58 |
| @rizen | just the revision date | 06:58 |
| +perlDreamer | oh | 06:58 |
| +perlDreamer | crap | 06:58 |
| +perlDreamer | nm | 06:58 |
| @rizen | nm on crap, or the problem? | 06:58 |
| +perlDreamer | both | 06:58 |
| +perlDreamer | bad test | 06:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I wonder how many other bugs this one is related to? | 06:59 |
| +perlDreamer | the dupe problem | 06:59 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 06:59 | |
| @rizen | probably tons | 06:59 |
| +perlDreamer | oh well | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | it's fixed now | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | and we have tests to monitor the codebase for the future | 07:00 |
| @rizen | yeah, because i'm a genius | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll also commit the package test | 07:00 |
| @rizen | hehe | 07:00 |
| @rizen | i'm really full of myself | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | even with a messed up head | 07:00 |
| @rizen | i love it when a plan comes together | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | You must be Faceman now | 07:01 |
| +perlDreamer | you can close the bug and gloat some more | 07:01 |
| @rizen | nah..you're the one that found the problem | 07:01 |
| @rizen | you deserve the credit | 07:01 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll take 10 karma | 07:01 |
| @rizen | i already have 11k | 07:01 |
| @rizen | i don't need anymore | 07:02 |
| +perlDreamer | How much karma activity is there on the site? | 07:02 |
| +perlDreamer | Do your customers spend much? | 07:02 |
| @rizen | haven't looked in a while | 07:02 |
| @rizen | probably not | 07:02 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: new asset tests committed | 07:02 |
| +perlDreamer | check them out | 07:02 |
| @rizen | yup...customers are spending | 07:03 |
| @rizen | highest karma is 12k | 07:03 |
| @rizen | Emil has the most | 07:04 |
| @rizen | don't even know who he is | 07:04 |
| @rizen | you have more than 9k | 07:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I have 11.8 K | 07:06 |
| @rizen | you're probably the second highest on the site then | 07:07 |
| +perlDreamer | I closed the stuck bugs from earlier today | 07:07 |
| +perlDreamer | that brings us down 4 bugs | 07:07 |
| @rizen | they call themselves the a-team | 07:11 |
| @rizen | that's right jack, you understand | 07:11 |
| @rizen | ok...gotta go throw my head in a pillow | 07:11 |
| @rizen | later | 07:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | snapcount: ping? | 07:29 |
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| +Luke___ | hiho | 14:58 |
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| wgGuest35 | Yo | 17:14 |
| wgGuest35 | My WebGUI site has standard registration fields, just like on plainblack.com | 17:15 |
| wgGuest35 | and I see that "lost password" link is not enabled there either... | 17:15 |
| wgGuest35 | Now the issue is that with the new update, the lost password trough profile fields mechanism is rather hard to implement: if you select just Username and Email address, it will be really unsecure... | 17:17 |
| @rizen | a new form of recover password by email will be coming in 7.4 | 17:17 |
| wgGuest35 | and you can't really select other fields (what happens to already registered users that didn't edit their profile?) | 17:18 |
| wgGuest35 | oh that's great | 17:18 |
| wgGuest35 | and on what it'll be based on? | 17:18 |
| @rizen | the user will receive an email after typing in their email address | 17:19 |
| @rizen | and they can then click on the link to recover | 17:19 |
| wgGuest35 | so the frontend will be pretty much like 7.2 | 17:19 |
| @rizen | yes, but more secure | 17:19 |
| @rizen | the old way was totally insecure | 17:19 |
| wgGuest35 | cool much better! | 17:19 |
| wgGuest35 | do you have any timeline? | 17:20 |
| @rizen | 1 week longer than it was before because you asked when =) | 17:21 |
| wgGuest35 | hah :D | 17:22 |
| wgGuest35 | I'm no competitor spy, just wanted to plan things a bit :) | 17:22 |
| @rizen | i don't think i accused you of anything did i | 17:43 |
| wgGuest35 | indeed, I was just joking | 17:43 |
| -!- onioncoder [n=mike@s205-206-123-62.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #webgui | 18:05 | |
| onioncoder | just wondering if anyone has used workflows to create "sub-sites" on the fly for registered users... | 18:07 |
| wgGuest35 | sounds pretty good idea... For example personal blogs (CS) for each registered user... | 18:07 |
| onioncoder | right -- i guess it would be a workflow that would a) gather some data from the user, b) install a package for what the page should look like | 18:09 |
| onioncoder | i talked with JT a few years back about something like this before workflows, but I'm just wondering if workflows are the way to do this now... seems like it would be... | 18:09 |
| @rizen | you could certainly do it with workflows, but you're going to need to write some custom activities | 18:10 |
| onioncoder | are there any package related activities yet to base the work off of? | 18:11 |
| onioncoder | or is this still worthy of a separate asset | 18:11 |
| @rizen | no need for a seperate asset | 18:12 |
| @rizen | but there's no activities that work with packages currently either | 18:12 |
| @rizen | it would only take one custom activity | 18:12 |
| @rizen | the api is all there to do it | 18:12 |
| @rizen | you just need to trigger it when a user creates an account | 18:12 |
| @rizen | and that trigger is already in place | 18:13 |
| onioncoder | i need to trigger it on demand - not every registered user gets this | 18:13 |
| onioncoder | but i suppose i could trigger it off a link on the page? or trigger off of the user adding themselves to a group via a link? | 18:13 |
| wgGuest35 | and how you get input from the user? For example the "Blog name" field, etc. so it dynamically generates the CS and so on | 18:13 |
| @rizen | you've got some work for yourself then | 18:14 |
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| @rizen | for those of you logged in as guests | 18:15 |
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| +Luke___ | re | 18:15 |
| @rizen | you can change your name | 18:15 |
| wgGuest35 | Rizen did you check that? It's made with YUI, I just saw a screencast interview on it thinkature.com | 18:15 |
| @rizen | by typing /nick newnamegoeshere | 18:16 |
| @rizen | check what? | 18:16 |
| wgGuest35 | that website www.thinkature.com | 18:16 |
| wgGuest35 | damn If I could have that thing for my website... | 18:17 |
| @rizen | you can | 18:17 |
| @rizen | just sign up on their site | 18:17 |
| @rizen | and there you god | 18:17 |
| @rizen | go | 18:17 |
| @rizen | =) | 18:17 |
| wgGuest35 | heh well I meant something integrated with user db etc. | 18:17 |
| @rizen | i know what you meant | 18:17 |
| wgGuest35 | AJAX whiteboard.. wow | 18:19 |
| ckotil | Can I set the default view permision to other than everyone?? | 18:30 |
| @rizen | the privilege is inherited | 18:31 |
| @rizen | so when you create a new asset | 18:31 |
| @rizen | it takes that privilege | 18:31 |
| @rizen | from whatever it's parent is | 18:31 |
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| ckotil | k | 18:33 |
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| ckotil | is there a detailed description of each UI level? | 18:39 |
| ckotil | all i can find is a list. with no descritoins | 18:39 |
| @rizen | there's no detailed description | 18:55 |
| ckotil | k | 18:56 |
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| greghacke | so who is going to write thinkature for wG? | 19:03 |
| @rizen | wgGuest35 | 19:04 |
| greghacke | was my thought too. good luck, #35 | 19:04 |
| +perlDreamer | what is thinkature? | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | and speaking of writing, where are the wG docs you were going to send me in 2005? :) | 19:05 |
| @rizen | probably the same place has his plane ticket from 2006 WUC | 19:06 |
| @rizen | oh snap...totally nailed you!!! | 19:06 |
| greghacke | who is perlDreamer? | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | What is the Matrix? | 19:08 |
| * ckotil follows the white rabbit | 19:08 | |
| @rizen | greg...that snipe was at you not pd | 19:08 |
| greghacke | my 06 WUC ticket is in my client's hand (my former employ) | 19:08 |
| @rizen | pd = colin kuskie | 19:08 |
| greghacke | Colin! | 19:09 |
| @rizen | the greatest man alive | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | hey! | 19:09 |
| greghacke | definately | 19:09 |
| greghacke | my tech writer is now in a place to write them - her business is switching to wG now. | 19:10 |
| greghacke | (they make games like settlers of catan) | 19:10 |
| +crythias | ooh... settlers of catan | 19:10 |
| +crythias | never heard of it. | 19:10 |
| +crythias | :) | 19:10 |
| +crythias | actually, I have, but not played. | 19:10 |
| greghacke | is a good game. | 19:10 |
| greghacke | [17:09] Patterson, Tammy: I'm going to look at it. | 19:11 |
| greghacke | [17:09] Patterson, Tammy: I need to get a handle on it. But..it sucks | 19:11 |
| greghacke | see, she's already opinionated - thus a good fit for the community | 19:12 |
| +crythias | :) | 19:12 |
| @rizen | settlers of catan rocks | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | we're taping out a chip today, I'll be on and off all day long | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | anything important y'all better email or IM me | 19:13 |
| * crythias removes picket splinters from his butt... fence sitting ..erm... inhales forcefully. | 19:13 | |
| greghacke | 3D Settlers is even better | 19:15 |
| +crythias | ok. I realized that I have 7.0.8 on my wg site. | 19:16 |
| +crythias | I think I need to go to 7.2.3 and then latest? | 19:16 |
| ckotil | i upgraded from 7.2.3 to 7.3.6 then to 7.3.7 (on my dev box) , didnt have any collab systems, and the upgrade went fine. | 19:18 |
| +crythias | oh. my karma is now stagnant :) | 19:20 |
| +crythias | -er | 19:20 |
| -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: Current WebGUI Version 7.3.8 - Upgrade Immediately, Security Vulnerability Found | 19:21 | |
| +crythias | um. wow | 19:21 |
| ckotil | can i read about the vulnerability anywhere? | 19:21 |
| @rizen | Here's the advisory | 19:22 |
| @rizen | http://www.plainblack.com/getwebgui/advisories/security-defect-discovered-in-7.x-versions | 19:22 |
| ckotil | thx | 19:22 |
| @rizen | All the latest advisories are on getwebgui.ccom | 19:22 |
| @rizen | you should subscribe | 19:22 |
| ckotil | k | 19:22 |
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| ckotil | hey perlDreamer what was wrong with the media folder? | 19:38 |
| +perlDreamer | media folder? | 19:38 |
| ckotil | anyone know roughly when the media folder came into existence? | 19:39 |
| ckotil | yeah. 7.3.8 release notes... | 19:39 |
| ckotil | - fix: Media Folder (perlDreamer Consulting, LLC) | 19:39 |
| @rizen | media folder came in around 7.0 or 7.1 | 19:39 |
| @rizen | when we started allowing people to upload files directly from the rich editor | 19:40 |
| ckotil | ah. cool. | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | oh | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | Media Folder | 19:40 |
| greghacke | i love the media folder. | 19:40 |
| ckotil | i recall creating a media folder to store my media in (go figure) then i noticed that it had the folder by default with the newer version. | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | If you don't have permission to upload to the Media Folder, it would ship you back an error message inside the RTE pop-up that included the site style | 19:40 |
| ckotil | i love it too | 19:40 |
| @rizen | pd: please make a note, we need to remove the media folder | 19:40 |
| greghacke | much easier to teach my clients where to put stuff | 19:41 |
| greghacke | GAR! | 19:41 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen, check | 19:41 |
| @rizen | we can't let people have something they like | 19:41 |
| +perlDreamer | we'll do that in 7.3.122 | 19:41 |
| @rizen | k | 19:41 |
| greghacke | make you a trade - one each Emira board game for one each media folder | 19:41 |
| greghacke | (i know rizen's echange rate) | 19:41 |
| @rizen | you realize there are around 10k webgui deployments right? | 19:41 |
| +perlDreamer | what's Emira? | 19:41 |
| greghacke | i want twice that many. | 19:42 |
| @rizen | i want ^2 that many | 19:42 |
| greghacke | Emira is a new board game by Mayfair. You are a prince trying to find some princesses to marry | 19:42 |
| ckotil | do you have a chart showing the number of deployments? that'd be interesting to see | 19:44 |
| @preaction | i think google could finagle a search for you. webgui has a <meta name="generator"> | 19:45 |
| @rizen | actually lots of people remove that | 19:45 |
| @preaction | the jerks | 19:46 |
| greghacke | definately. I leave it in. Takes no space. | 19:46 |
| @rizen | the deployment number that we know about is based upon people using testEnvironment.pl or the statistics page | 19:46 |
| greghacke | Emira: As a wealthy desert sheikh, you have many needs. Perhaps you need a wise advisor, or a talented cook, or maybe a well-organized housekeeper? Or, maybe you seek the romance of a beautiful companion? | 19:46 |
| @rizen | cuz that checks plainblack.com for the latest version | 19:46 |
| greghacke | yep | 19:46 |
| * crythias just wants to be the mac daddy p.i.m.p. | 19:47 | |
| @rizen | we used to keep track of them, but stopped after we hit 10k unique servers | 19:47 |
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| * crythias is a Private Investment Management Person. Ahh Yeah.. | 19:48 | |
| +crythias | actually, according to www.bahamavention.com, I am so white, I can't wear myself after labor day. | 19:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | and it grows ominously quiet in the channel | 20:39 |
| PedersenMJ | You've noticed that too, eh? I show up, it gets quiet. I'm starting to worry if I've got BO or something. | 20:47 |
| ckotil | even w/ 15 users. the most ive seen | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: I've found more of that bare reference code in the core | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | find . -name '*.pm' -exec perl -ne 'print "$ARGV: $_" if /->get\b/;' {} \; | grep -v 'get("' | grep -v i18n | grep -v "get('" | less | 20:48 |
| @rizen | where it matters? | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | not sure yet | 20:48 |
| @rizen | in most cases it doesn't matter | 20:48 |
| @rizen | if it's read only | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | is addRevision safe? | 20:48 |
| @rizen | i don't see why it wouldn't be | 20:49 |
| @rizen | there's no reference in there that matters | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | I was able to winnow it down from several thousand to just about 150 | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll peek at a few then let it go | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | need some hand holding... | 21:24 |
| @rizen | i don't know..i think i've done enough hand holding this week (not with you, just in total) | 21:25 |
| @rizen | what can i do for you | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I need some help verifying my checks | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | addRevision will set $self's status to pending | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | $properties->{status} = 'pending'; | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | line 86 of AssetVersioning | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | so I think it should be marked as not safe for references | 21:26 |
| @rizen | i don't see any problems there | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | coolio | 21:30 |
| @rizen | the methods that call addRevision are already creating a new hash | 21:30 |
| @rizen | so there's no dangerous refs there | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | $event->addRevision($self->get); | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | inside the Event Asset | 21:31 |
| @rizen | yeah, that's bad | 21:31 |
| @rizen | that needs to be fixed | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | That whole code needs to be reviewed for references problems because propery hashes are recycled in loops | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | especially processPropertiesFromFormPost | 21:31 |
| @rizen | i'm not following you | 21:32 |
| @rizen | point out a problem | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | that one I showed was one of them | 21:32 |
| @rizen | what one? | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | $event->addRevision($self->get); | 21:32 |
| @rizen | what does that have to do with processPropertiesFromFormPost | 21:32 |
| @rizen | that's what i'masking | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | That code is inside pPFFP inside the Event | 21:33 |
| @rizen | most assets don't create other assets in this way | 21:33 |
| @rizen | the reason this one is doin gthat is due to recurrence | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 21:34 |
| @rizen | www_add() already does the right thing | 21:34 |
| @rizen | which is what's important for 99% of the assets | 21:34 |
| ckotil | RFE: Navigation asset; add a new start point type. SELF (url of the nav asset) | 21:41 |
| ckotil | what does everyone think of that? | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | Is that a convenience method instead of typing the URL in by hand? | 21:42 |
| ckotil | yes. | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds good to me | 21:42 |
| @rizen | under what circumstances would that be used? | 21:42 |
| ckotil | because when creating a package that contains a nav asset that is set to specific url of itself. when the package is used, you must update the specific url by hand | 21:42 |
| ckotil | eh? | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | like for sitemaps? | 21:43 |
| ckotil | for creating a table of contents. | 21:43 |
| @rizen | i can't think of a situation where nav ever starts with the nav asset | 21:43 |
| ckotil | same idea as anchor links in a webpage. | 21:43 |
| ckotil | but we have article assets, or whatevr asset inside a page layout | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | can you point us to an example page? | 21:44 |
| ckotil | sure. | 21:44 |
| ckotil | my manager wants this functionality. and he just found this... http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/article_internal_anchors | 21:45 |
| ckotil | ill get you the link to my example page... | 21:45 |
| ckotil | fucking manager just trashed it .lol. gotta roll back | 21:46 |
| greghacke | i like the SELF | 21:47 |
| @rizen | pd, mental note...can't do this now, greg likes it | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | gotcha | 21:47 |
| greghacke | Example: I use a nav template in a group of assets as a package. | 21:47 |
| ckotil | i might attempt to implement it and ill contribute to the codebase | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | no Media Folders or Nav->SELF methods | 21:48 |
| greghacke | the set would be nav asset, product overview, product images, product wiki and product demo | 21:48 |
| ckotil | heh | 21:48 |
| greghacke | then when mayfair gets a new product, we pop in the package and edit the resources | 21:48 |
| greghacke | i'm tell worfel | 21:48 |
| greghacke | wurfel | 21:48 |
| @rizen | in order for self to work, all your assets would have to be direct descendants of it | 21:50 |
| @rizen | not the page it's on, but actual decendants of the nav | 21:50 |
| greghacke | easily done. | 21:50 |
| @rizen | that's why i don't see this being terribly useful | 21:50 |
| greghacke | and doesn't hamper my presentation | 21:50 |
| ckotil | hrmm.. true | 21:50 |
| ckotil | i guess i was just thinking of self and using 'siblings' | 21:50 |
| +perlDreamer | and no depth | 21:51 |
| @rizen | well... i guess it could have a start point modifier | 21:51 |
| @rizen | self / .. / .. / .. | 21:51 |
| @rizen | so instead of the start point being self | 21:52 |
| @rizen | it would be "relative to self" | 21:52 |
| greghacke | that would be even better for me. | 21:52 |
| @rizen | and so not to confuse "self" with any given asset, it should be labled "relative to navigation asset" | 21:52 |
| greghacke | er, i mean better for other people | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: note, no start point modifiers for self | 21:53 |
| ckotil | yeah. calling it self would get confusing | 21:53 |
| @rizen | pd: you're right since greg likes it, can't be done | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I fixed that code in the Event Asset | 21:54 |
| @rizen | coolio | 21:54 |
| greghacke | i don't like "Fatal Internal Error" | 21:59 |
| greghacke | since i don't like it, can we have it? | 22:02 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 22:02 |
| +perlDreamer | $session->privilege->fatal | 22:02 |
| greghacke | but only for me. | 22:02 |
| +perlDreamer | $session->privilege->fatal if $user->get('username') eq 'greghacke'; | 22:03 |
| greghacke | now that is good code@ | 22:03 |
| @rizen | if ($user->username eq 'greghacke') { | 22:06 |
| @rizen | WebGUI::Asset->getRoot($session)->purge; | 22:07 |
| @rizen | return $session->errorHandler->fatal; | 22:07 |
| @rizen | } | 22:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Sad part is that I've seen people who did the equivalent to that after being told that rm -rf / was how to do a backup. | 22:07 |
| +perlDreamer | well, it lets you _test_ your backup... | 22:08 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, but what a horrid way to do it. | 22:08 |
| @rizen | when i was a noob i acidentally deleted ls from my first unix system | 22:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Especially if you're a young'in asking for advice, and take it seriously. | 22:09 |
| @rizen | you can't imagine what kind of hell that created | 22:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, I can come close. "chmod -R 0777 /" | 22:09 |
| PedersenMJ | All of a sudden, su and login were broken. No more sticky bit on them. | 22:10 |
| PedersenMJ | Erp, wrong, it was "chmod -R 0700 /" | 22:10 |
| PedersenMJ | I was trying to remove all access to stuff that didn't belong to you. Boy, did I *ever* pull that off. | 22:10 |
| ckotil | rfe: search feedback. i.e. 'no results found' | 22:23 |
| +perlDreamer | searching where? | 22:24 |
| ckotil | search asset. | 22:24 |
| +perlDreamer | I remembering i18n'ing that. That might be a bug | 22:25 |
| ckotil | ah, good deal. | 22:25 |
| ckotil | Shall i file a bug report? | 22:25 |
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| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui | 22:27 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ | 22:27 | |
| +perlDreamer | it's not a bug. I'm thinking of the MultiSearch asset instead | 22:29 |
| +perlDreamer | file an RFE | 22:29 |
| ckotil | ok. | 22:30 |
| +perlDreamer | if JT approves it, we'll put it into 7.4 | 22:35 |
| ckotil | thanks. | 22:35 |
| ckotil | http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/search-asset-feedback.-i.e.-no-results-found | 22:35 |
| @preaction | i need some OO theory help. I've got a bunch of collateral tables that I want to implement some sort of caching for. So say I've got a Country package. Country->new would refer to one country (you'd think, right?). Country->getAll could get a list of Country objects. How could I implement caching? make another object? | 22:36 |
| @preaction | say a CountryCache->new. CountryCache->getAll would then return all the countries and keep a cache of them, would that make sense to the layman? | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | you could cache it inside the object, like the Sessin sub-objects | 22:37 |
| @preaction | so now i've got a single country that has a cache of all the countries? | 22:37 |
| @preaction | it doesn't make sense to me | 22:37 |
| @preaction | this project is a far cry from the planning phase, this is something that should've been hashed out then... | 22:38 |
| @preaction | currently i've got a bunch of class methods that return data structures | 22:38 |
| @preaction | no objects at all | 22:38 |
| ckotil | hrm.. so i got sidetrack and never linked you guys to my example for justifying the new starting point for nav asset. | 22:38 |
| @preaction | i'm perverting the deref operator, but it works and it makes sense | 22:39 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil: you had boss->nukage | 22:39 |
| ckotil | yeah | 22:39 |
| ckotil | i think we're seeing eye to eye on it. so no need to link you | 22:39 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: sorry that I wasn't clear | 22:40 |
| +perlDreamer | why not have a class method that locally caches? | 22:40 |
| @preaction | nono, frank's been telling me the same thing for 2 hours | 22:40 |
| @preaction | "locally"? | 22:40 |
| +perlDreamer | sub getAll { | 22:40 |
| +perlDreamer | my $self = shift; | 22:40 |
| @preaction | as in keep track of the data structure and use it again and again? | 22:40 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 22:40 |
| @preaction | but not inside the class | 22:40 |
| @preaction | there is no object instanciation here | 22:41 |
| @preaction | they're just class methods, not object methods | 22:41 |
| +perlDreamer | package var? | 22:41 |
| @preaction | i was told that was an unviable solution by frank | 22:41 |
| @preaction | package Country; our $cache = {}; # keep a cache, eh? | 22:41 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 22:41 |
| @preaction | when does that get destroyed though? | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | it doesn't | 22:42 |
| @preaction | mod_perl keeps persistence, so now you have a cache to keep track of at all times | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | it either has to be manually reset or restart the webserver | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | give me the 10,000 foot view for a sec | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | you need a cache, but frank says | 22:42 |
| @preaction | and since the query itself takes less than a tenth of a second to run no matter how complicated you make it, i feel the programmer time is not worth the processor time | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | you need to argue that with Frank | 22:42 |
| @preaction | the argument is this: Country should have a constructor with no arguments, and then everything should be an object call and should cache | 22:43 |
| @preaction | then when the object falls out of scope, the cache is gone and we don't have to worry anymore | 22:44 |
| +perlDreamer | so what's the problem with that solution? | 22:44 |
| +perlDreamer | it means coding time, Frank doesn't like it, or what? | 22:44 |
| @preaction | we're arguing semantics, a Country should not contain any more than one country (imo) | 22:44 |
| @preaction | CountryList perhaps | 22:44 |
| @preaction | or a Collateral; with getCountries that caches | 22:45 |
| @preaction | Collateral->getCountries | 22:45 |
| @preaction | in 3 months, when i've forgotten what a Country is, will I remember that it's more than one country? | 22:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't see a problem in having a class method that returns them all, then it's just down to the question of where you cache. | 22:47 |
| @preaction | CountryList->new; # get a new Country list, optionally only grab countries based on passed criteria, cache | 22:47 |
| +perlDreamer | so where do you cache? | 22:48 |
| +perlDreamer | db, WebGUI::Cache, $session? | 22:49 |
| @preaction | CountryList->new->{_cache} | 22:49 |
| @preaction | in memory, volatile, just for a single sub, so that a later call to ->getOne, doesn't have to go to the db | 22:50 |
| +perlDreamer | oooohhhh | 22:54 |
| +perlDreamer | bad perlDreamer | 22:54 |
| +perlDreamer | "perlDreamer had to iron his hands" | 22:54 |
| @preaction | um... not following | 22:55 |
| +perlDreamer | I inserted a bug into the Project Manager due to sloppy coding | 22:55 |
| +perlDreamer | and didn't test before committing | 22:56 |
| @preaction | good job | 22:56 |
| @preaction | eh, i leave debug code in a lot :( | 22:56 |
| @preaction | usually warnings to the modperl error log | 22:56 |
| @preaction | with Data::Dumper output | 22:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I did this: $i18n->('label'); | 22:56 |
| @preaction | ahh | 22:56 |
| +perlDreamer | that quote is from Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets | 22:56 |
| @preaction | bad pd, no cookie | 22:56 |
| +perlDreamer | no cookie | 22:57 |
| @preaction | gooeybot botsnack | 22:57 |
| gooeybot | :) | 22:57 |
| +perlDreamer | gooeybot cookie | 22:57 |
| gooeybot | perlDreamer: sorry... | 22:57 |
| @preaction | gooebot cookie is <reply>Thanks $who! | 22:57 |
| @preaction | er... | 22:57 |
| @preaction | gooeybot: cookie is <reply>Thanks $who! | 22:57 |
| gooeybot | sure thing preaction | 22:57 |
| @preaction | gooeybot cookie | 22:57 |
| gooeybot | preaction: what? | 22:57 |
| @preaction | ... | 22:58 |
| @preaction | gooeybot: cookie? | 22:58 |
| gooeybot | bugger all, i dunno, preaction | 22:58 |
| @preaction | ........... | 22:58 |
| @preaction | cookie? | 22:58 |
| @preaction | this... stupid... bot... is... going... to... be.. the... death.. of... me... | 22:58 |
| greghacke | so... anyone an expert with SQLForm? :-) time to beat the machine | 23:02 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: here's the whole quote | 23:03 |
| +perlDreamer | nm, stupid UTF8 non-handling operating system | 23:03 |
| +perlDreamer | Solaris 8 sucks | 23:03 |
| +perlDreamer | It's on here | 23:04 |
| +perlDreamer | http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0295297/quotes | 23:04 |
| +perlDreamer | gooeybot: shorten it | 23:04 |
| gooeybot | perlDreamer: i'm not following you... | 23:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I need a beer | 23:04 |
| ckotil | me too | 23:05 |
| ckotil | i just found my new favorite friday song. | 23:06 |
| ckotil | ying yang twins - friday. if you like hip hop at all check it out. | 23:06 |
| ckotil | pandora should have it | 23:06 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: re the RSS escaping bug | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI::HTML::filter does the same thing as <tmpl_var var ESCAPE="HTML"> | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | so I'll update the template with that and close the bug | 23:17 |
| @preaction | better idea than pre-escaping, since then the RSSFromParent can be hammered into other uses (like DoS's slideshowpro xml thingy) | 23:22 |
| -!- wgGuest98 [n=wgGuest9@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [] | 23:22 | |
| +perlDreamer | is DoS a government office? everytime you type that I think we're working for some botnet owner | 23:22 |
| @preaction | US Department of State | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | heh | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | under certain circumstances, they do perform denial of service | 23:23 |
| @preaction | embrace the whore, we're working for the state | 23:23 |
| greghacke | 15 years in the army - that's embracing the whore... | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | falling on your back out of a helicopter is a better example | 23:24 |
| @preaction | embracing? that's becoming the whore :p | 23:24 |
| @preaction | i kid, i kid | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | word of advice: never piss off someone with formal combat training | 23:25 |
| greghacke | that's good too. disability never hurts the pocket. | 23:25 |
| @preaction | but i'm on the internet, i can annoy with impunity! | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | WUC | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | Greg has a very good memory | 23:26 |
| @preaction | and crap, you have my photo now | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | and he knows where you live | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | and work | 23:26 |
| @preaction | uh... heh... i mean, my dad was in the reserves! | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | Greg, put down the K-Bar | 23:26 |
| -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 23:26 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 23:26 | |
| +perlDreamer | phew | 23:26 |
| @preaction | (don't mention he was dishonorably discharged for stealing army property and joyriding through germany) | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: grab Greg while I help preaction escape! | 23:27 |
| @preaction | run away! | 23:27 |
| * snapcount looks like the deer right before it's leveled by a pickup truck | 23:27 | |
| @preaction | hoping that's it's two motorcycles? | 23:28 |
| @snapcount | so I was looking at the RFE list and I've decided everyone should go use all their karma to move my RFE to the top of the list | 23:28 |
| @preaction | yours? | 23:28 |
| @snapcount | so get on it guys | 23:28 |
| +perlDreamer | which RFE? | 23:28 |
| @snapcount | the one for configurable search | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd like to ask something | 23:29 |
| greghacke | now now, I am in Michigan. This means I have my rifles and my pistols :-) | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | Karma determines which features PB implements, right? | 23:29 |
| @snapcount | one way | 23:29 |
| @snapcount | there's a good wiki entry out there on how to get stuff in the core | 23:29 |
| @snapcount | whoever wrote it is brilliant | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | and good looking | 23:29 |
| @snapcount | damn straight | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | let me see if I remember | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | anyone with commit access can implement blessed RFE's? | 23:30 |
| @snapcount | into a beta | 23:30 |
| greghacke | someone needs a wiki entry on SQLForm :-) | 23:30 |
| @preaction | "a"? | 23:30 |
| greghacke | I lack commit | 23:30 |
| @preaction | several? | 23:30 |
| ckotil | someone needs to write an entry on sqlform ;] | 23:30 |
| @snapcount | "b"? | 23:30 |
| @snapcount | "c"? | 23:30 |
| @preaction | "x"! | 23:31 |
| @snapcount | yeah they might win the WCC and become rich and famous | 23:31 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: note to self. No wiki entries on the SQL Form | 23:31 |
| @snapcount | that thing is hard to figure out | 23:31 |
| @snapcount | but once I figured it out, it's pretty spiffy | 23:32 |
| greghacke | i've got Tammy on it | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | it seemed simple when Martin demo'ed it | 23:32 |
| @snapcount | yeah, I remember | 23:32 |
| @snapcount | then I tried it and got the same look I had when I joined channel today | 23:32 |
| @snapcount | it needs a wizard | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | calling Wizard HairGrease | 23:33 |
| @snapcount | with a little animated gooey pointing at each step as you click next | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | HairGrease, please report to the IRC | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | stat | 23:33 |
| greghacke | clean up, HairGrease, isle 3... | 23:33 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm kinda hoping no one beats out my entry. I'm still working on it, but my entry for it will be the "Making a WebGUI Style" page when it's done. | 23:34 |
| @snapcount | so you want to see the worst example of an error message I've ever seen? | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 23:34 |
| @snapcount | [Fri Jan 26 13:31:23 2007] [error] SSL Library Error: 218710120 error:0D094068:asn1 encoding routines:d2i_ASN1_SET:bad tag | 23:34 |
| @snapcount | [Fri Jan 26 13:31:23 2007] [error] SSL Library Error: 218529960 error:0D0680A8:asn1 encoding routines:ASN1_CHECK_TLEN:wrong tag | 23:34 |
| @snapcount | [Fri Jan 26 13:31:23 2007] [error] SSL Library Error: 218595386 error:0D07803A:asn1 encoding routines:ASN1_ITEM_EX_D2I:nested asn1 error | 23:34 |
| @snapcount | [Fri Jan 26 13:31:23 2007] [error] SSL Library Error: 218734605 error:0D09A00D:asn1 encoding routines:d2i_PrivateKey:ASN1 lib | 23:34 |
| @snapcount | screw pastebin | 23:34 |
| @snapcount | I know someone is about to say it | 23:35 |
| @snapcount | I'm lazy | 23:35 |
| @snapcount | you know what generates that | 23:35 |
| @snapcount | some of yo might actually | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | mod_perl? | 23:35 |
| PedersenMJ | Lack of ambition? | 23:35 |
| greghacke | oh, Pdersen! I was doing something like that based on CSSZenGarden | 23:35 |
| @snapcount | trying to restart apache with ssl when you have added a private key protected with a passphras | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | that sucks | 23:36 |
| ckotil | ability to import csszengarden. | 23:36 |
| * ckotil drools | 23:36 | |
| @snapcount | well, the first line of the error message is a little better I guess | 23:36 |
| greghacke | already do it. | 23:36 |
| @snapcount | [Fri Jan 26 13:31:23 2007] [error] Init: Unable to read pass phrase [Hint: key introduced or changed before restart?] | 23:36 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm doing it based on a single style. And trying to cover all bases. | 23:36 |
| greghacke | csszengarden is the basis of my html:template | 23:36 |
| @snapcount | lol | 23:36 |
| ckotil | cool. | 23:37 |
| ckotil | But im talking get a script to do it. | 23:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Not gonna do that myself. Don't see how I can. | 23:37 |
| ckotil | im all abotu automation. i need to get that shirt that says ' dont bother me or else ill replace you with a small shell script' | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | thinkgeek.com | 23:37 |
| ckotil | yah. heh | 23:37 |
| @snapcount | I had a sticker like that for my old laptop | 23:37 |
| ckotil | thety have a ton of cool shit i would buy if i had the money to do so | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount, we need a new bug category | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | it's called "IE" | 23:38 |
| @snapcount | couldn't bear to deface the beautfiul mbp though | 23:38 |
| greghacke | too many of my clients want to know what's in the magic box - as rizen can attest | 23:38 |
| @snapcount | actually it's simpler than that | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | Any bugs that say "I use IE *" | 23:38 |
| @snapcount | we just need one bug report that says IE | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | get automatically closed with the message : use Firefox | 23:38 |
| @snapcount | oh ok | 23:38 |
| @snapcount | I like it | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | There are like 6-8 of them | 23:38 |
| @snapcount | give me all your karma, and I'll have Doug think about it | 23:39 |
| +perlDreamer | wG doesn't let us transfer karma | 23:39 |
| greghacke | where you want my karma? | 23:39 |
| @snapcount | on my RFE | 23:39 |
| -!- wgGuest19 [i=WebGUIUs@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [] | 23:39 | |
| greghacke | Configurable Search Rules | 23:39 |
| @snapcount | I want to run a syndicate that controls the RFE list | 23:40 |
| @snapcount | we'll muscle people around | 23:40 |
| @snapcount | like evil villians | 23:40 |
| ckotil | where does this come from '-moz-border-radius-' ? | 23:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I like your files for purchase idea better | 23:40 |
| ckotil | is that mozilla specific? | 23:40 |
| @snapcount | ckotil: good guess is yes | 23:40 |
| greghacke | it's moz/firefox/etc specific | 23:40 |
| ckotil | nice. | 23:40 |
| +perlDreamer | ask Steve | 23:40 |
| @snapcount | but I'm a css retard | 23:40 |
| ckotil | im ripping off the plainblack search button | 23:40 |
| +perlDreamer | it was his bug | 23:40 |
| ckotil | just the code. made my own image ;] | 23:40 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: you're missing the point | 23:41 |
| @snapcount | it's not about the RFE you think is better | 23:41 |
| @snapcount | it's all about me | 23:41 |
| greghacke | ck: it's a css element created in and for moz but has been supported by a number of other browsers | 23:41 |
| @snapcount | every group of villains needs an evil leader | 23:41 |
| greghacke | ck: similar to opacity | 23:41 |
| ckotil | greghacke: ah. thanks for the info | 23:42 |
| greghacke | np - can see both at http://www.redskyrising.com/redstar/gallery | 23:42 |
| @snapcount | kinda cool there are enough people in here to actually warrant specifying to whom you wish to interact | 23:42 |
| greghacke | the moz border is the circle formed around the login, the opacity is visible when opening an image | 23:42 |
| greghacke | sc: not just "here" but actually active | 23:43 |
| @snapcount | is this website for a group of socialist rock stars that like vodka? | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | and dreds | 23:44 |
| ckotil | with a dash of emo | 23:45 |
| @snapcount | the red dreds were really cool | 23:45 |
| @snapcount | rizen should do that | 23:45 |
| @snapcount | that and a zz top beard | 23:45 |
| @snapcount | combined with the black wardrobe | 23:45 |
| @snapcount | we'd have an icon | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | he already has the wardrobe | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | anyone up for some javascript bug fixing? | 23:46 |
| greghacke | sc: correct, they are an odd goth industrial band | 23:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I know what's causing the RTE image/asset tree linking bug | 23:46 |
| +perlDreamer | but don't know how to fix it | 23:46 |
| greghacke | sc: you have all my karma now | 23:47 |
| +perlDreamer | 4 karma? | 23:47 |
| @preaction | greghacke: definately liking the design, but perhaps the login box needs to be javascriptied, like a "login" link that shows/hides the div with the login box (it's ugly being there all the time) | 23:47 |
| greghacke | pr: agree but the band LOVES it. i did a showIt js that was even IE compliant - they hated it. | 23:48 |
| @preaction | c'est la vie, clients get what clients want | 23:48 |
| greghacke | pD: i gave him 96. like I said, all i had... | 23:49 |
| @preaction | i also think i should post a bug for all the "Click Here" things in WebGUI's i18n stuff. the w3c say that "click here" is bad web practices | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | wow, that's 24:1 | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | if you post it, I'll fix them | 23:49 |
| @preaction | so i should put all my 3500 karma into snapcount's thingy? | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | to get to the top of the list he'd need a lot of karma | 23:50 |
| greghacke | open query: I want to extract all the css from the asset headers | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | like more than 24,000 | 23:50 |
| @preaction | well, we'd have to run it by TMRFE first, it might be a bad web practice, but it might also be necessary for pebkac | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | what is TMRFE? | 23:50 |
| gooeybot | TMRFE is The Man Responsible For Everything or Yes, sometimes there is someone to blame | 23:50 |
| @preaction | gooeybot pebkac is Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | gooeybot botsnack | 23:50 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 23:50 |
| gooeybot | :) | 23:50 |
| greghacke | rizen | 23:50 |
| @preaction | gooeybot BAD is Broken As Designed | 23:51 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 23:51 |
| @preaction | gooeybot BAD is also Sometimes you just have to go back to the beginning | 23:51 |
| gooeybot | okay, preaction. | 23:51 |
| @preaction | gooeybot grue is It's very dark in here. You might get eaten by a grue. | 23:51 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | gooeybot preaction is your master now | 23:58 |
| gooeybot | OK, perlDreamer. | 23:58 |
| @preaction | preaction? | 23:58 |
| gooeybot | you are my master now | 23:58 |
| @preaction | lol | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction? | 23:58 |
| gooeybot | preaction is my master now | 23:58 |
| @preaction | BAD? | 23:59 |
| gooeybot | BAD is, like, Broken As Designed or Sometimes you just have to go back to the beginning | 23:59 |
| @preaction | cookie? | 23:59 |
| @preaction | gooeybot cookie is C is for cookie, and that's alright | 23:59 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 23:59 |
| @preaction | cookie? | 23:59 |
| gooeybot | cookie is C is for cookie, and that's alright | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Sat Jan 27 2007 | ||
| @preaction | no, gooeybot, cookie is <reply>C is for cookie, and that's alright | 00:00 |
| gooeybot | okay, preaction. | 00:00 |
| @preaction | cookie? | 00:00 |
| gooeybot | C is for cookie, and that's alright | 00:00 |
| -!- greghacke [n=greghack@c-24-23-66-147.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [] | 00:00 | |
| -!- greghacke [n=greghack@c-24-23-66-147.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #webgui | 00:01 | |
| greghacke | finally, Trillian lets me use it for irc | 00:02 |
| greghacke | or did everyone leave? | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | anyone know of a SOAP service that will spew data at me? | 00:02 |
| @preaction | it seems that gooeybot doesn't like $who and <reply> in the same item | 00:03 |
| ckotil | have a good weekend everyone. | 00:05 |
| +perlDreamer | later,chad | 00:05 |
| greghacke | ciao | 00:05 |
| ckotil | cya colin | 00:05 |
| greghacke | do'cvedonya! | 00:05 |
| @preaction | peace ez, sucka | 00:05 |
| ckotil | pz | 00:05 |
| -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit ["leaving"] | 00:05 | |
| @preaction | Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party? | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | nein | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, drat it | 00:06 |
| @preaction | nyet! | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | blew that one again | 00:06 |
| greghacke | Da. | 00:06 |
| @preaction | Da? DA? | 00:06 |
| greghacke | Ya xzil va muskva dva goda. | 00:06 |
| @preaction | ?? ?????????? ??? ????????????! | 00:07 |
| @preaction | babelfish doesn't translate your romanized cyrillic :p | 00:08 |
| greghacke | quite true. | 00:08 |
| greghacke | I lived in moscow for two years. | 00:08 |
| @preaction | fun? | 00:08 |
| greghacke | on and off. along with most of the bad(tm) places. | 00:09 |
| greghacke | always fun. only group that ever really hurt me were americans | 00:09 |
| @preaction | eh, i like bad places | 00:09 |
| greghacke | Rwanda, Bosnia, Iraq, Somalia, etc. | 00:09 |
| @preaction | i'm a general junkie, adrenaline, endorphines, nicotine, caffiene, THC, LSD, and chef boyardee | 00:10 |
| greghacke | was good for me | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | had to read that twice | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | thought he said TLC | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'm wondering how lame reality shows fit in with the reset | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | rest | 00:10 |
| greghacke | chef boyardee is the only one that scares me | 00:10 |
| @preaction | TLC was a pop band from the nineties, get with it man | 00:11 |
| @preaction | it's hip to be square | 00:11 |
| @rizen | what's with you people!!!!! | 00:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I made the mistake of asking them to help me with javascript | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | it blew their minds | 00:12 |
| @preaction | we're so awesome we have to pretend to be lame so people will talk to us | 00:12 |
| @rizen | i get on th phone and then all the sudden there is a burst of chatter like there has never been before | 00:12 |
| @preaction | it's all OT though | 00:12 |
| @rizen | excellent. then i don't have to read the history | 00:12 |
| @preaction | i think there was somehting about me wanting to remove all the "Click Here"s from i18n, since the w3c calls it a bad web practice | 00:13 |
| @preaction | and running it by you first | 00:13 |
| @rizen | how many click here's are there? | 00:14 |
| @rizen | i can't imagine many | 00:14 |
| @preaction | just a couple, the main two being "click here to register" and "click here to logout" | 00:15 |
| @preaction | they might not be in i18n, but wherever they are | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | there are about 10 | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | all through the system | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | how do I pastebin? | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | gooeybot pastebin? | 00:16 |
| gooeybot | no idea, perldreamer | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | i18n/English/Asset_EventManagementSystem.pm | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | i18n/English/Asset_Shortcut.pm | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | i18n/English/Asset_SQLForm.pm | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | i18n/English/Asset_Survey.pm | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | i18n/English/CommercePaymentITransact.pm | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | i18n/English/Macro_L_loginBox.pm | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | i18n/English/Macro_LoginToggle.pm | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | i18n/English/WebGUI.pm | 00:16 |
| @preaction | perlbot paste | 00:17 |
| perlbot | Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. | 00:17 |
| @preaction | gooeybot pastebin is http://sial.org/pbot | 00:17 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 00:17 |
| @preaction | no, gooeybot pastebin is http://sial.org/pbot | http://erxz.com/pb | http://pastebin.ca | 00:18 |
| gooeybot | okay, preaction. | 00:18 |
| @preaction | pastebin? | 00:18 |
| gooeybot | i guess pastebin is http://sial.org/pbot | 00:18 |
| @preaction | pastebin? | 00:18 |
| gooeybot | pastebin is http://sial.org/pbot | 00:18 |
| @preaction | damnit... randomize! | 00:18 |
| @preaction | pastebin? | 00:18 |
| gooeybot | well, pastebin is http://pastebin.ca | 00:18 |
| @preaction | ha | 00:18 |
| @preaction | gooeybot pastebin is also | magic 8ball says "Try again" | 00:18 |
| gooeybot | okay, preaction. | 00:18 |
| @preaction | pastebin? | 00:18 |
| gooeybot | pastebin is probably http://erxz.com/pb | 00:18 |
| @preaction | rofl | 00:19 |
| @preaction | add your favorite pastebins with: gooeybot pastebin is also | <URL HERE> | 00:19 |
| @rizen | i'm ok with getting rid of them if there is a better idea | 00:21 |
| @preaction | i'd say icons, but would that work? style differences would render them evil | 00:21 |
| @preaction | just "Logout", as long as there's a link-styling to it (which is up to the designer's CSS of course) | 00:22 |
| @preaction | "Create Account" instead of "Register" perhaps? | 00:22 |
| @preaction | Create User even | 00:23 |
| @preaction | using verbs to describe the action, with "Click here to" being implied | 00:23 |
| greghacke | Yep. | 00:29 |
| greghacke | Oh, and I had implied that we should remove all the CSS from asset headers and create snippets with CSS tied for those assets | 00:29 |
| @rizen | i'm hungry | 00:29 |
| @rizen | anybody else hungry? | 00:29 |
| +perlDreamer | no, but I need a beer | 00:29 |
| greghacke | Want to get some gaming in. sitting in a gaming store and not playing | 00:30 |
| @rizen | greg...did my little package go out this week? | 00:30 |
| greghacke | although food... | 00:30 |
| greghacke | It did. will get you the shipping code. will be coming from either the factory (skokie, IL) or the president/ceo's house. | 00:31 |
| @rizen | what address did you ship it to? | 00:31 |
| greghacke | told me to keep mine uhm... looking | 00:32 |
| @preaction | greghacke: that's a big RFE, but i'd definately pump my 3500 karma into that | 00:32 |
| greghacke | pr: i'm looking at doing it myself. just working through all the assets, top to bottom | 00:33 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: did you fix the upgrade mirror problem again? | 00:33 |
| @rizen | yeah, it should be closed bug now isn't it | 00:33 |
| @preaction | the new calendar templates have a bunch of CSS that needs to be cleaned up major-like, steve was under some pressure | 00:34 |
| +perlDreamer | dhelsten reopened it | 00:34 |
| +perlDreamer | is it some random hiccup? | 00:34 |
| greghacke | rizen: 1360 Regent St | 00:34 |
| @rizen | sweet thanks greg | 00:34 |
| greghacke | my pleasure, really | 00:34 |
| greghacke | rizen: 3 day select, getting # asap | 00:34 |
| @rizen | sourceforge keeps changing the html that i'm scraping | 00:35 |
| @rizen | so for the time being the only mirror in the list is plainblack | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll close the bug | 00:35 |
| greghacke | preaction: so you think a css migration would do well? would still call the css asset through the headers but as a link. | 00:36 |
| greghacke | opinion? | 00:36 |
| @preaction | i think it's the best bet, it takes into account browser and webgui caching | 00:38 |
| @preaction | of course, that could be a detriment, since those caches are ... persistent | 00:38 |
| @preaction | but CSS best practice is to use <link rel="stylesheet"> whenever possible | 00:39 |
| greghacke | but you can set the cache timeouts on the css asset | 00:39 |
| @preaction | ah, did not know that | 00:39 |
| greghacke | use the caching for my css assets all the time. critical to some of my church sites | 00:40 |
| @preaction | the only thing is: it should be intuitive. if it's a minor thing, one or two lines, and it's just easier to keep it in the extra head tags, we should do so | 00:40 |
| @preaction | i think it's mostly style and large blocks we should worry about | 00:40 |
| greghacke | yep - style is my first step | 00:40 |
| @preaction | so style03 already has a .css snippet | 00:40 |
| @preaction | but, example, the calendar templates do not (when they share a lot of the same CSS) | 00:41 |
| @preaction | so a snippet in their /root/import node/calendar (or wherever those templates went) would be excellent | 00:41 |
| greghacke | in the same course, i want to pull the javascript, etc. | 00:42 |
| greghacke | but yes, calendar was a big one for me. | 00:42 |
| greghacke | my key is also standardizing the CSS using camelCase reference. | 00:42 |
| greghacke | so all calendar specific css would be calendarBigDay or something | 00:46 |
| greghacke | sticking with the rizen wG Best Practices of camelCase of course. | 00:49 |
| @rizen | of course | 00:49 |
| greghacke | so, my new intent for the current contest is writing How to: EMS. thoughts? | 00:50 |
| @rizen | ooh that would be good | 00:51 |
| PedersenMJ | What's EMS stand for? | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | that's not a page, that's an adventure | 00:51 |
| greghacke | started it this afternoon. | 00:51 |
| greghacke | Event Management System | 00:51 |
| greghacke | Eh, I am intimately familiar with it from both ends. | 00:51 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, that should be a very useful page. I might even vote for such over mine :) | 00:51 |
| greghacke | we ran a 12000 person show using it in July. | 00:52 |
| greghacke | heck, I even came up with methods for it to print badges and tickets that were IE compliant... | 00:52 |
| @rizen | nicely done dood | 00:53 |
| greghacke | i don't think they were unhappy with the performance even with the minute bugs | 00:53 |
| greghacke | won't make up for missing WUC but i will be using wink for part of it | 00:55 |
| @preaction | that would be very good, i know i could not for the life of me figure out how to use the EMS | 00:59 |
| @preaction | (still can't, actually) | 00:59 |
| greghacke | I can! | 01:00 |
| @preaction | you can help the community! | 01:01 |
| @preaction | go man, go! | 01:01 |
| greghacke | woohoo! | 01:01 |
| @preaction | does three hours of meetings about a project count as working on that project? | 01:01 |
| greghacke | no idea... rizen? out all, time to eat... | 01:02 |
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| @preaction | i just feel bad sometimes saying "i worked for three hours talking, but have nothing tangible to show for it" | 01:03 |
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| +perlDreamer | is 67 KB too big for testing collateral? | 01:32 |
| @preaction | he left, but since wG has grown to be 16 megabytes since 7.0 (a 3x increase), i doubt another 67k will matter | 01:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm going to build a package import test to try and debug Frank's double import problem, and so we'll need a package to import | 01:38 |
| @preaction | i say if it helps webgui (by making packages more robust by implementing more regression tests) then it's worth it | 01:39 |
| @preaction | and jt isn't here to veto | 01:39 |
| @preaction | is that good or bad? | 01:39 |
| +perlDreamer | we can always take it out | 01:39 |
| @preaction | true enough | 01:40 |
| +perlDreamer | or use a smaller package | 01:40 |
| @preaction | just use some little crap icons from a free service | 01:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I was able to dupe the bug, but the symptoms are completely different than what is reported | 01:40 |
| @preaction | or heck, use a couple of the wG asset icons | 01:40 |
| @preaction | sure it's the same bug then? | 01:40 |
| +perlDreamer | no, but the end result is the same | 01:41 |
| +perlDreamer | there are on hard wG errors, but if you double import it blows away the old package | 01:41 |
| +perlDreamer | it's gone | 01:41 |
| +perlDreamer | and the webgui.log file gets filled with "Could not set uid/gid" messages | 01:41 |
| +perlDreamer | so I'm guessing the bug has evolved since September | 01:41 |
| @preaction | ew indeed | 01:42 |
| +perlDreamer | the tests I wrote last night helped with the package deploy problem | 01:43 |
| -!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: Current WebGUI Version 7.3.8 - Upgrade Immediately, Security Vulnerability Found... and Don't feed the badgers | 01:44 | |
| -!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: Current WebGUI Version 7.3.8 - Upgrade Immediately, Security Vulnerability Found and don't feed the badgers | 01:46 | |
| +perlDreamer | good idea | 01:48 |
| +perlDreamer | michigan looks tough this year | 01:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we broke a record for this week | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | most number of releases | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | with 3 in 3 days | 01:50 |
| +perlDreamer | you must be pooped | 01:50 |
| @preaction | well maybe if the new guy didn't keep messing things up with his crap code! | 01:51 |
| @preaction | er... I mean... move along | 01:51 |
| @preaction | (7.3.8 wasn't me, I swear) | 01:51 |
| +perlDreamer | eh, you just caused upgrade problems | 01:51 |
| @preaction | nor was 7.3.7 for that matter | 01:51 |
| @preaction | we'll blame drake, since he can't defend himself | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | at least you didn't write in a security problem | 01:52 |
| @preaction | you just haven't found one yet | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I know what's wrong with the recurrence code. | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | It doesn't check for this week | 01:52 |
| @preaction | the issue with that is "what is a week", DateTime specifies it as Sunday to Saturday | 01:53 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think that's it | 01:53 |
| @preaction | with the first week being the first Sunday to Saturday containing the first Thursday (so there can be a week 0) | 01:53 |
| @preaction | but yes, i'm clouding the issue | 01:53 |
| @preaction | what issue? the double-creation? | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | it creates the original event | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | then builds N additional events, starting at 0 instead of 1 | 01:54 |
| @preaction | i simply did not even check for it, and frank said if the original event doesn't fall on the same day as a recurring event, it should be created | 01:54 |
| @preaction | don't know why. i think that the recurrence start should always be the start of the first event | 01:54 |
| @preaction | the recurrence is going to go through a rewrite, i can tell you that | 01:55 |
| @preaction | it's hard to do well, and i've got a feeling i know how to do it a lot better this time | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | if you can, abstract out the algorithm so that you can write tests for it | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | all that TDD stuff | 01:55 |
| @preaction | that big huge algorithm? yeah... it'd be nice to make some tinier ones | 01:56 |
| @preaction | that was written at the end of a very very long night | 01:56 |
| @preaction | some recursion would work nice as well | 01:56 |
| @preaction | better flow, a lot of code in that algorithm is copy/pasted | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | ew | 01:58 |
| @preaction | it's ugly, i hate it, and i want it to die | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | don't die, otherwise you won't be able to fix it | 01:58 |
| @preaction | frankly, i'm surprised it works | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'll have to write your docs, too :) | 01:58 |
| @preaction | actually, about that: do you have time during the evening after "work" during out PB bug fix extravaganza to assist me with that? | 01:58 |
| @preaction | i figure i do it after real bugs are fixed during the day | 01:59 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm hoping to have time during the day next week to help with that as well as the evening | 01:59 |
| @preaction | i mean, iphoneguy did make the docs thing a bug, so it'd be possible to work on it during the day, but i'd prefer evening, after real bugs are worked out during the day | 01:59 |
| @preaction | so any evening you're open for those three days | 02:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll have to check the calendar for an evening. | 02:00 |
| +perlDreamer | Usually from 5:30pm to 7:30pm PST I'm in Daddy-mode | 02:00 |
| @preaction | meaning about 7:30-9:30p CST? | 02:01 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, so I'd be free after that | 02:01 |
| @preaction | later or earlier is fine | 02:01 |
| @preaction | i'm usually up until 1-2a CST | 02:01 |
| +perlDreamer | that gives us some time | 02:01 |
| @preaction | indeed | 02:02 |
| @preaction | what would you say to turning on warnings for WebGUI and making sure that during normal operations it doesn't make a peep? | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | what does "turning on warnings" mean? | 02:04 |
| @preaction | (so, if necessary, you should turn off certain warnings when doing something a bit esoteric) | 02:05 |
| @preaction | perl -w | 02:05 |
| @preaction | use warnings; | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I like it | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I think the syntax check test does that | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | it's pretty -w clean, really | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | some duplicated my's | 02:05 |
| @preaction | i dunno, i always see a whole slew of "uninitialized" craps | 02:05 |
| @preaction | of course, those can be turned off if desired | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | or fixed | 02:05 |
| @preaction | or, it could just be my code | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, I tinkered in your code a little | 02:06 |
| @preaction | might be good to do when we start using Carp and eval { } | 02:06 |
| +perlDreamer | there was some references being passed to subs that alter their args | 02:06 |
| @preaction | i didn't | 02:06 |
| @preaction | i did | 02:06 |
| @preaction | i think i was suggested to :p | 02:06 |
| @preaction | but i shouldn't have | 02:06 |
| +perlDreamer | this one | 02:07 |
| +perlDreamer | https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI SVN/revision/?rev=3650 | 02:07 |
| @preaction | i'm getting used to bickering with frank, so i'll keep my standards secure unless i get a long, involved reason why not | 02:07 |
| +perlDreamer | that kind of stuff was the bug rizen found last night | 02:07 |
| +perlDreamer | so I put my grep hat on and started some code analysis | 02:08 |
| @preaction | oh, yeah i probably did not mean to do that | 02:08 |
| @preaction | i keep forgetting that $asset->get returns a reference instead of creating a copy and then returning a reference to it | 02:08 |
| @preaction | to be honest, that's what ->get should do imho | 02:08 |
| @preaction | create a copy, and then return a ref to the copy | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be a lot safer if it did | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | talk to rizen about it | 02:09 |
| @preaction | usually i just add an RFE and if it's something like that, he just does it right away | 02:09 |
| @preaction | so i'll do that | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I also think we should be checking inside of AssetLineage for asset definedness, instead of trying to call undef->get | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | if we get handed back a bad Asset, then croak with all the info you need to find out why it croaked | 02:10 |
| @preaction | getLineage, before pushing onto the array of returned assets? | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah! | 02:10 |
| @preaction | warn if we can't instanciate | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | croak | 02:10 |
| @preaction | "Can't instanciate Asset with ID: " | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | croak is the only way to force finding the bugs | 02:10 |
| @preaction | i dunno, carp maybe, croak maybe not | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | few people even know they have a log file | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | wG will just hum along silently unless we croak | 02:10 |
| @preaction | but if we put this into existing instances, it might create more problems (since it can go along just fine for a while) | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | you're right, it's harsh but it | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | also forces the problems into the daylight | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | and that seems to be the goal of 7.3 | 02:11 |
| @preaction | i suppose we are going for stability these days, and if we fix it now we don't have to fix it later | 02:12 |
| @preaction | so i'm adding mine for "Asset->get should return a copy of the hashref" | 02:12 |
| @preaction | or wait, if you put the croak (confess rather) in the asset constructor, then you wouldn't need it in getLineage | 02:15 |
| @preaction | confess does a full stack trace, instead of just going back one level | 02:15 |
| +perlDreamer | sure, so long as it dies and forces the user to tell us something | 02:17 |
| @preaction | it will, unless some idiot traps it themselves (which of course, we should allow) | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | there may be a bug filed for that already | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/lack-of-testing-for-valid-object-creation#cvZLuxaQe68DkewYeLO_ew | 02:18 |
| @preaction | probably is, we've been having tons of fun with that and the migration from old EC to new C | 02:18 |
| +perlDreamer | "fun" | 02:26 |
| @preaction | 16 hours of extra, non-billable work (meaning i had to still work 8 billable hours those days) | 02:27 |
| @preaction | yes | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | heading home. Catch you later | 02:28 |
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| crythia1 | heh | 02:35 |
| crythia1 | oopsies | 02:35 |
| @preaction | plenty of those this week | 02:37 |
| Hinrik | heh | 02:48 |
| Hinrik | find WebGUI|grep .pm|xargs perlcritic -severity 4|wc -l | 02:48 |
| Hinrik | 2097 | 02:48 |
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| Radix__ | http://www.flickr.com/photos/radix999/sets/72157594501906135/ | 05:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Cool :) | 06:00 |
| Radix__ | Was a great day.. though very hot.. hit 42'C | 06:04 |
| Radix__ | 107.6'F I think that works out to be | 06:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Wow... We barely get that in the deserts. Very hot. | 06:05 |
| Radix__ | same temp today too actually | 06:06 |
| Radix__ | Anyhow.. I'm off.. just thought I'd share those :) | 06:06 |
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| +perlDreamer | hey guys | 06:26 |
| +perlDreamer | did you miss me? | 06:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, but my aim is getting better. | 06:26 |
| * perlDreamer ducks | 06:28 | |
| +perlDreamer | bobs | 06:28 |
| +perlDreamer | weaves | 06:28 |
| +perlDreamer | and plants easter eggs in the code | 06:28 |
| +perlDreamer | :) | 06:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Dang it, you gotta stand still. I said better, not great! Hell, I still have problems hitting stuff that's standing still! | 06:28 |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ, amaze me with your SOAP knowledge | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I need a public SOAP server that will spew reams of data to test the pagination variable fixes for the WSClient Asset | 06:29 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, since I haven't ever used it, I don't have a lot of knowledge to amaze with. However, I *do* have an idea: Why not set one up that just spits out something from project gutenberg? | 06:32 |
| PedersenMJ | i.e.: Take a long text (say, one of Shakespeare's plays), and make a small soap server that spits out each line of the play as a line of xml. | 06:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Hmmm. Setting up involves more work. | 06:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I exercising virtue #1 today | 06:33 |
| +perlDreamer | see, I'm so lazy I even forgot a verb in that last sentence. | 06:33 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, it's not difficult, but it's not totally trivial either. Of course, there is one advantage to setting it up in the long run: You can build unit tests around it. | 06:36 |
| PedersenMJ | Which might not be enough, but it's still there. | 06:36 |
| PedersenMJ | But finding a public soap server that's already set up? Nope, I don't know of one. | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll work on the double package import bug instead | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | one advantage of having lots of bugs to fix is that you can pick and choose | 06:38 |
| PedersenMJ | Also true :) | 06:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | so what are you hacking on tonight? | 07:04 |
| PedersenMJ | Me? I got a new laptop at work today, and am configuring it like crazy. It's a Mac, and it seems very nice. Basically, I'm working on switching over. | 07:05 |
| +perlDreamer | cool | 07:05 |
| +perlDreamer | or, ala Wisconsin, coolio | 07:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah. And am now beginning my savings drive to get the Mac I want for me, which is the 17" MacBook Pro with all the trimmings. Of course, at $3600, that's going to take me a bit. | 07:05 |
| +perlDreamer | nice laptop, though | 07:06 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, it is. Just hope it's really worth the investment. I try and buy one new PC about every 5 years. | 07:08 |
| PedersenMJ | I do *not* want to be considering another new laptop in a mere 3 years. That will annoy me. | 07:08 |
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| +perlDreamer | I buy a laptop every three years, but I only budget $1k for them | 07:19 |
| PedersenMJ | I've only recently turned to laptops (ie: My last purchase, and it's now hitting four years). | 07:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | I've made an invisible asset. | 07:32 |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ, have you ever tried to import a package, then commit it, then import it again? | 07:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | Don't do it to a production system. | 07:34 |
| +perlDreamer | This is what it does | 07:34 |
| +perlDreamer | 1) Your package disappears from the Asset Manager. | 07:34 |
| +perlDreamer | The Assets disappear from the listing in the Asset Manager. | 07:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Nope, never done it. Didn't think of it, either, though it would have been easy enough of a mistake to make. | 07:35 |
| +perlDreamer | 3) You can find them again if you search, but you cannot view or edit them. | 07:35 |
| +perlDreamer | this is totally weird. | 07:35 |
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| perlm | Is there a 7.3.9 due out tomorrow? I go to the site after a few days and see there have been *two* releases since the last stable. | 18:03 |
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| greghacke | what is BAD? | 18:23 |
| gooeybot | BAD is Broken As Designed or Sometimes you just have to go back to the beginning | 18:23 |
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| greghacke | crythias - how you get the +v? | 20:36 |
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| crythia1 | oh | 21:14 |
| crythia1 | sniff | 21:14 |
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| mikeraz | Installation question here ... | 19:44 |
| mikeraz | I've downloaded and uncompressed/tarred the WRE for ubuntu. Now what? I have a tree with ... Hopefully the answer is on the Plain Black web site in a place I've not found. | 19:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | mike | 19:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | there is a readme in the wre/docs directory | 19:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | also | 19:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | in the wiki on plainblack there's a step by step manual | 19:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://www.plainblack.com/support/community-wiki/community-wiki/installing-webgui-using-the-wre-for-linux | 19:48 |
| mikeraz | Ah! Wiki! wiki good. | 19:48 |
| mikeraz | Thank you, that should do it. | 19:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 19:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | good luck | 19:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | one tip | 19:48 |
| mikeraz | FWIW the Ubuntu tarball does not include the readme in wre/docs | 19:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you screw up one step | 19:49 |
| mikeraz | but the install should do it too. | 19:49 |
| mikeraz | "if"? | 19:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | ditch the entire wre tree under data | 19:49 |
| mikeraz | :) | 19:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's not the most user friendly tool on the earth yet =) | 19:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | but it sure is handy | 19:50 |
| mikeraz | Well, I;m tossing an installation up to compare it to Drupal | 19:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 19:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | just don't be put off by installing it | 19:51 |
| mikeraz | What's with the "no running processes on port 80" requirement? I have to shut down apache to use this? | 19:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes | 19:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | b/c it has it's own apache | 19:51 |
| mikeraz | That's a killer. | 19:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | it sets up two apache servers for you | 19:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | a mod_proxy on port 80 | 19:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | and a mod_perl on port 81 | 19:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | so you can | 19:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | configure mod_proxy to proxy all requests to your other server | 19:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | which you put on port 82 or what you like | 19:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | If you need you won apache on port 80 | 19:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | you cannot use the wre | 19:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | and you should install manually | 19:53 |
| mikeraz | Hmmm, so I put existing apache on, for this example, port 82 get WebGui running it will proxy everything not webgui bound to apache on port 82 | 19:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you tell mod_proxy to do that | 19:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | not by default of course | 19:53 |
| mikeraz | standard mod_proxy behavior | 19:54 |
| mikeraz | squirt things to another box if needed | 19:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm not a mod_proxy guru | 19:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | but the wre sets it up like this | 19:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | proxy everything to port 81 | 19:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | where mod_perl is running | 19:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | It uses the mod_proxy to prevent slow connections from | 19:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | hijacking too many mod_perl processes | 19:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | which benefits performance | 19:56 |
| mikeraz | While I'm weighing my options, I searched for "manual install" on the wiki and it came up empty | 19:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | that could be | 19:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | the wiki thing is pretty new | 19:58 |
| mikeraz | back to forums I presume | 19:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | actually there's a contest for writing up new wiki articles | 19:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | there used to be some online reference | 19:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | on installing it manually | 19:58 |
| mikeraz | Maybe the Q "Best way to install from beginning" by Meuller, with a long linked to reply from alafondo. Starts with "download dapper drake" and goes through the whole OS setup, Perl upgrade, CPAN visits and such | 20:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | there is an install.txt in the webgui source packages | 20:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | under docs | 20:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | that file explains the manual process albeit very compact | 20:03 |
| mikeraz | That would be a better source. Thanks much. (Glad I have spare test servers) | 20:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | good luck | 20:04 |
| mikeraz | I'd better have another cup of coffee and get out for some exercise to get my blood flowing. This not finding the install.txt, and not checking the Administrators section on the web site, is braindead. | 20:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | i agree | 20:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | coffee is good =) | 20:11 |
| mikeraz | since the spare server is handy I thought a quick start would be to take a run with the WRE | 20:17 |
| mikeraz | step 5 gave me pause: | 20:17 |
| mikeraz | 5. Create your DNS entries (or add to /etc/hosts) for the sites you | 20:17 |
| mikeraz | will be using, including the AWStats site. | 20:17 |
| mikeraz | That mean the DNS names I'll use for accessing the site? | 20:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes | 20:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | i guess that | 20:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | if they're already in the normal dns system | 20:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | you don't need to do that | 20:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | but I'm not sure | 20:19 |
| mikeraz | They are, I've lots in bind's internal view | 20:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | in that case | 20:19 |
| mikeraz | What's the implications of answering yes or no to "Will this be a Dev only site?" | 20:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | a dev only site is only for webgui developers | 20:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | it will add Apache2::Reload to the apache conf | 20:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | which automatically reloads changed code | 20:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | it will slow the system down | 20:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | also | 20:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | you have no awstats | 20:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | and probably backup is missing too | 20:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you're evaluating | 20:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | don't do a dev-only site | 20:20 |
| mikeraz | Comprehensive answer there. Thanks | 20:21 |
| +MrHairgrease | np | 20:21 |
| mikeraz | "Do you haveWebGUI local or should I get it from a mirror?", since I have the wre tarball I'm assuming local. ? | 20:33 |
| Hinrik | uh | 20:34 |
| Hinrik | it doesn't matter where you download it | 20:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah use local | 20:34 |
| Hinrik | that's why they call it "mirrors" | 20:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | currently there's only one mirror | 20:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | being plainblack | 20:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | somehow it's slow sometimes | 20:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | local is prefereable | 20:35 |
| mikeraz | What is the question referring to? | 20:35 |
| Hinrik | that question doesn't make much sense | 20:35 |
| mikeraz | next one asking for path to the file, which "the file" | 20:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | the webgui tarball | 20:36 |
| mikeraz | WRE or Source? | 20:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | source | 20:36 |
| mikeraz | So the path to file should include the source filename? | 20:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes | 20:37 |
| mikeraz | Glad you're here, that is one I would not have figured out without excessive head against wall banging time | 20:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | heh | 20:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | as i said | 20:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | it is not yet the most userfriendly installation tool in the world | 20:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 20:39 |
| mikeraz | an edited log of this transcript submitted to the right place will be a small step in addressing that. | 20:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | I've heard that plainblack is working on a much more improved version | 20:40 |
| mikeraz | a little more verbosity in the install Q&A alone would go a long ways | 20:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | i know | 20:41 |
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| mikeraz | Well heckums, once that buzzed through it's up and looking flashy | 20:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 20:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | have fun | 20:49 |
| mikeraz | In the FAQ for migrating Existing Site to WRE it reads like migrating an existing WebGUI site to the new install. | 20:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | that could be | 20:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | do you have an url? | 20:55 |
| mikeraz | for an existing example that is not a WebGUI install? http://www.patch.com/ | 20:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 20:57 |
| +MrHairgrease | to the faq | 20:57 |
| mikeraz | sorry, not FAQ, install docs : http://www.plainblack.com/wre/existing-site-to-wre | 20:59 |
| +MrHairgrease | that faq is about converting an existing manual webgui install | 21:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | to a wre based wg install | 21:00 |
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| mikeraz | So it reads. | 21:06 |
| mikeraz | I can see why there's a wiki content contest. The amount of hive mind to absorb is huge. | 21:06 |
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| +perlDreamer | evening, guys | 06:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | howdy | 06:30 |
| PedersenMJ | How do, how do? | 06:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, preaction, you around? Might have an actual bug (though small) in the calendar. | 06:31 |
| +perlDreamer | there are already some calendar bugs logged, you might want to check for dupes | 06:31 |
| PedersenMJ | This is also true. This one, though, might also be working as designed, or not even be a feasible bug to fix. | 06:32 |
| +perlDreamer | what is it? | 06:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Creating a new event always defaults to today, even if you've selected a different date in the calendar. | 06:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, and that's if it even *is* a bug. If it's not, I don't want to file it as a bug. (btw, version is still 7.3.5). | 06:34 |
| +perlDreamer | That may be a bug, or an oversight. It's always safer to file it as a bug and then let people reclassify it as an RFE. | 06:34 |
| +perlDreamer | The code for adding an event does accept a form param called "start". | 06:35 |
| +perlDreamer | So I'm guessing a bug | 06:35 |
| +perlDreamer | (it also accepts "end") | 06:35 |
| +perlDreamer | It's probably as simple as appending that to the url for adding an event with the view is by day. | 06:35 |
| PedersenMJ | That's likely the start time (also part of creating a new one). | 06:35 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 06:36 |
| PedersenMJ | It's also very likely that there's a PEBKAC problem, and I don't want to exacerbate it by making a bug or rfe when it's something simple/stupid. | 06:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Do you want me to take a look at it? | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I think people will take _your_ word for it. Really. | 06:37 |
| PedersenMJ | If you wish. It's not even a huge deal to me. It is (at most) a minor usability issue. | 06:38 |
| PedersenMJ | And I just realized: I got that from somebody else. I'm going to confirm it myself. | 06:39 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, now I can see it. It's there. And isn't huge. | 06:40 |
| PedersenMJ | I'll double-check and see if that working as designed, and then file a bug afterwards if not. I can be patient, definitely. | 06:40 |
| PedersenMJ | Anyway, how are you? | 06:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm in week four of a tweaked back muscle. | 06:41 |
| PedersenMJ | Ouch. How'd you do it? | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not sure. | 06:43 |
| +perlDreamer | This happens occasionally, but usually only lasts a few days | 06:43 |
| +perlDreamer | After week 5 I'm going to see a doctor | 06:44 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm planning on seeing on soon myself, and I'm only on week two. Did mine while moving. | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | This may be an old moving injury, too. From like '96 | 06:45 |
| +perlDreamer | See one soon! | 06:45 |
| PedersenMJ | Wow, now I'm definitely worried. This is just (mostly) tender, with proper back support, the tenderness disappears. | 06:46 |
| PedersenMJ | And, yes, I was being serious. My mom has a history of back problems. I really don't want to get my own history started with this move. | 06:53 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm calling it a night. Good luck hacking! | 07:08 |
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| @khenn | mornin | 17:21 |
| greghacke | gutten morgen! | 17:23 |
| @khenn | I don't speak greek | 17:24 |
| greghacke | german? I could do russian. maybe a bit of turkish? | 17:24 |
| @khenn | I speak every language fluently except for Greek | 17:28 |
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| PedersenMJ | Good morning. | 17:52 |
| greghacke | dobre dehn! | 17:53 |
| PedersenMJ | Cual idioma has hablado? | 17:54 |
| greghacke | ruskye yazeka | 17:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, no hablo russo, perdon. Solo hablo ingles y espanol ahora. | 17:56 |
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| @khenn | it's all greek to me | 18:24 |
| @preaction | i know! today I can write some automated regression tests for some assets | 18:27 |
| greghacke | what you beating on, preaction? | 18:30 |
| @preaction | i've got an entire day with nothing to do | 18:30 |
| @preaction | so i'm going to do bugfixing, but since i'm doing that, i may as well get some regression tests written | 18:31 |
| greghacke | i wish i were in that boat. | 18:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, preaction, question about the calendar, if you have a sec? | 18:32 |
| @preaction | sure, but if it's the same issue as last night, that's a bug | 18:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Perfect. That's what I was going to ask. Will file it right now. | 18:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Just didn't want to file a bug for something working as designed. | 18:32 |
| @preaction | even if it's not a bug, it gives the entire community a chance to look at it and say "hmm... is this indeed how we want it to work?" | 18:33 |
| @preaction | i mean, i may have wanted it to work like that, but does everyone else? | 18:33 |
| greghacke | now i have to look at the bug... | 18:33 |
| @preaction | i should probably say that at this point it almost seems as if another person wrote that thing | 18:33 |
| greghacke | this is the endDate before start date? | 18:34 |
| @preaction | greghacke: that error means that something before "WHERE" is causing the problem | 18:37 |
| PedersenMJ | Bug filed. | 18:38 |
| @preaction | greghacke: it's because you're missing a "FROM" clause | 18:38 |
| greghacke | IDIOT! | 18:39 |
| greghacke | that's me | 18:39 |
| greghacke | (boot to head) | 18:40 |
| greghacke | close that. | 18:40 |
| @preaction | or i could see if Roy figures it out ;) | 18:41 |
| greghacke | :-0 | 18:41 |
| @preaction | too late now, you told him :p | 18:42 |
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| greghacke | yeah - couldn't help it. if i feel stupid, I let the world know | 18:42 |
| @preaction | PedersenMJ: okay, that bug's because those templates don't even use the form parameter that activates that feature, and i suppose also when they start at such and such a time, the end time is still always "today", which is bad | 18:49 |
| @preaction | i'll make a note and get to it today or tomorrow | 18:49 |
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| PedersenMJ | I'm just glad it's a simple fix (well, from the sounds of it, anyway). | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | never say "fix" to an animal person | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | not to say preaction is an animal | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | just that you should be aware of that particular idiom | 19:14 |
| @preaction | guess what? mom's taking me to the vet to get TUTORED! | 19:14 |
| @preaction | anyone know why an i18n call would throw a "Not a CODE reference" runtime error? | 19:15 |
| @preaction | but only on pb.com, not on a test site? | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | test site like demo or like dev? | 19:15 |
| @preaction | dev | 19:15 |
| @preaction | i'll make up a demo to see if that works | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, I boogered up some i18n code in the project manager | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | $i18n->('key') | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | it's fixed in dev | 19:16 |
| @preaction | shit dude... that went OUT | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I know | 19:16 |
| @preaction | i'll patch pb.com | 19:16 |
| @preaction | i suppose i should've seen that :p | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I shouldn't have written it in the first place | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | and I should have tested it in the second place | 19:17 |
| @preaction | eh, it happens | 19:19 |
| +perlDreamer | besides, adding tasks just means more work? :) | 19:23 |
| @preaction | amen to that | 19:24 |
| @preaction | but apparently the suits like adding tasks for us shirts | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | are you bug fixing this morning? | 19:25 |
| greghacke | ya know, i just can't see calling rizen a 'suit' | 19:25 |
| @preaction | i've got nothing to do, no project hours left, so i'm doing whatever i want really | 19:25 |
| @preaction | anyone else think that we should make www_* call other methods in order to get a hashref of template variables (so that we can perform regression tests on those hashrefs) | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | yes! | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | yes!!! | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | that's also step one to true inheritance of assets | 19:27 |
| @preaction | the calendar does it to some extent, with the viewMonth, viewWeek, and viewDay methods | 19:28 |
| @preaction | perhaps a "getTemplateView" "getTemplateViewMonth" "getTemplateEditTask" etc... | 19:28 |
| @preaction | or maybe "getVars" | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | getVarsView | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | getVarsViewMonth | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 19:29 |
| @preaction | getTemplate sounds like we're getting a WebGUI::Asset::Template object | 19:29 |
| @preaction | getVars, while ambiguous, can be assigned a better meaning | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | getTemplateVars.+$ ? | 19:29 |
| @preaction | would probably be optimal, if verbose | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | the verbosity requirements for WGBP are challenging | 19:30 |
| @preaction | honestly, after reading WGBP, i'm starting to like verbose | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | have you ever heard Damian talk in person? | 19:30 |
| @preaction | less going through docs to figure out "okay, wtf did I mean by Vars this time" | 19:30 |
| @preaction | nein | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | if you ever have a chance, go see him | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | he's like Robin Williams mixed with Kernighan and Ritchie | 19:31 |
| @preaction | he does look entirely not like i expected him to | 19:31 |
| @preaction | and then i learn he's got a PhD | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I took a class from him in '01 | 19:32 |
| @preaction | i expected, "Damian, elite hax0r, must be young and headstrong" | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | he'd just bome back from talking with NASDAQ | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | they used Parse::RecDescent | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and he said he'd never trade on the NASDAQ again :) | 19:32 |
| @preaction | consulting services? | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | Damian was lecturing to them about using P::RD | 19:33 |
| @preaction | they weren't? | 19:34 |
| @preaction | or wrongly? | 19:34 |
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| @preaction | P::RD has always looked like a monster to me | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | they were, but at the time P::RD was something of a hack | 19:34 |
| @preaction | it's not still? | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | now it's the Regexp part of Perl 6 | 19:34 |
| @rizen | doug you're a genius | 19:48 |
| @rizen | i don't know why i didn't think of having $asset->get() return a copy of the hashref | 19:49 |
| @rizen | that would solve the problem everywhere | 19:49 |
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| greghacke | the hashref is slick | 20:06 |
| +perlDreamer | ++preaction | 20:06 |
| @preaction | was that me? i could've swore colin said it first | 20:07 |
| greghacke | [17:26] preaction: anyone else think that we should make www_* call other methods in order to get a hashref of template variables (so that we can perform regression tests on those hashrefs) | 20:07 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, man. That was pure preaction. | 20:08 |
| @preaction | oh that | 20:08 |
| @preaction | i meant the $asset->get() | 20:08 |
| greghacke | not sure | 20:09 |
| +perlDreamer | 02:08 <@preaction> i keep forgetting that $asset->get returns a reference instead of creating a copy and then returning a reference to it | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | 02:08 <@preaction> to be honest, that's what ->get should do imho | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | 02:08 <@preaction> create a copy, and then return a ref to the copy | 20:10 |
| @preaction | oh, k | 20:10 |
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| ckotil | bug: when an assets url contains a number the search asset will not search beneath that url. | 20:33 |
| ckotil | im assuming the number is the cause of the problem i am seeing. | 20:34 |
| ckotil | hrm. cant replicate it on the demo site. | 20:38 |
| @preaction | hrm indeed | 20:38 |
| @preaction | what's the asset that has the number in the url? | 20:38 |
| @preaction | a thread/post? | 20:38 |
| ckotil | page layout | 20:38 |
| ckotil | fixed it. i had a redirect asset that had the same name. it wqas confusing the search root select box. | 20:40 |
| ckotil | im pretty sure that qualifies as a bug | 20:40 |
| @preaction | same name, as in same "title"? | 20:40 |
| @preaction | menuTitle? | 20:41 |
| ckotil | heh. title | 20:41 |
| @preaction | yeah, i think that qualifies | 20:41 |
| ckotil | ill file it. | 20:41 |
| @preaction | it shouldn't be making a hash based on something that can possibly have overlap | 20:41 |
| @preaction | are layouts supposed to be RSS Capable? | 20:42 |
| ckotil | dunno | 20:44 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: Are you sure it's paulie aka iPG aka MS etc.? | 21:08 |
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| @preaction | ms tried to login from ip *, then iphone from same ip, then paulie 7 minutes later from same ip | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen has a ban on him | 21:09 |
| @preaction | five logins from same ip in 10 minutes | 21:09 |
| @preaction | i think he just disabled the accounts | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | we're being astroturfed? | 21:09 |
| @preaction | meh, i'll continue to respond to his points rather than attacking his (lack of) character | 21:09 |
| @preaction | if anything, the show for the peanut gallery will render all his arguments worthless | 21:10 |
| @preaction | in essence, he's his own worst enemy... at least get an ssh box and a proxy for god's sake | 21:10 |
| greghacke | i'd almost laugh at him if it weren't so pitiful | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I figured out my asset package import bug. | 21:12 |
| @preaction | if he'd give his points instead of refer to magic "problems", and if he'd stop the personal attacks against me, he might regain a shred of credibility | 21:13 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: fixable? | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not sure. | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | whoops | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | phone | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | gtg | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | back later | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | what a day.... | 21:13 |
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| greghacke | he seems to lack a basic sense of presence. he just assumes he is both an expert and the center of the wG universe | 21:14 |
| PedersenMJ | Is ms the person who posted the rant over on glaven.org? | 21:22 |
| PedersenMJ | I've finally been reading that rant. Wow. Maybe his complaints applied before, but I've got none of his issues. | 21:28 |
| greghacke | i understand his issues - i've never had them. the 6x was a major migration. options were no product or the dev we got. i like what we got | 21:29 |
| PedersenMJ | I didn't deal with the older stuff, ever. I think the oldest I've seen was 6.8.something. And I didn't use it much then. But absolutely I do not see his issues. | 21:31 |
| greghacke | I was in the 5.x series near the end. I saw a few issues but they were growing pains - nothing more. and not only are they all gone but the results thus far are more than i expected | 21:32 |
| @preaction | the person who wrote the rant at glaven.org was a former DonorWare employee. donorware has, just now, started to finally upgrade to the 7.x versions, they're still at 6.8.10 | 21:33 |
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| @preaction | they also had a lot of custom code to tie in with their customized system for managing donations for their client sites | 21:34 |
| greghacke | well, i sat at 6.8.11 for 9 months | 21:34 |
| greghacke | yeah, i've seen some of the donarware stuff | 21:34 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, so, basically, he didn't know what he was doing, and it was all pb's fault. | 21:34 |
| @preaction | that rant was written for the 5.8 or even 6.2 serieses | 21:35 |
| PedersenMJ | "didn't know what he was doing" == "running unstable software and trying to treat it as stable" | 21:35 |
| @preaction | in a manner of speaking, yes | 21:35 |
| @preaction | the 7.* series is where we're locking down the codebase, and we're running at least three separate dev threads to do it, regression tests, better error handling, and Perl Best Practices | 21:36 |
| @preaction | and no, i didn't go to a marketing school | 21:36 |
| PedersenMJ | I read your response to paulie, and I'm impressed. I don't think I would have been so restrained. | 21:37 |
| PedersenMJ | bbiab. Finally going to get lunch. | 21:38 |
| @preaction | that was the tone i was trying to set, getting me angry takes physical presence and intent, most people don't have the will (at least, never more than once) | 21:38 |
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| ckotil | can list out menutitle and title of article assets contained within a page layout from the page layout template? | 21:45 |
| ckotil | can I list* | 21:45 |
| ckotil | from what ive found on the boards, ill have to issue an sql query to get the title. bc all i can get is the assetID of the article asets | 21:45 |
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| @preaction | ckotil: if you join the "assetData" table on assetId and revisionDate (or find the max revisionDate), you'll get the title, you might also look at joining the wobject table if necessary | 21:50 |
| * preaction & errands | 21:50 | |
| ckotil | hrm. im afraid ill corrupt my data | 21:51 |
| greghacke | well, you can't do writes with SQLReport so you can't corrupt it... build a test until you get what you want | 21:52 |
| ckotil | good idea. | 21:52 |
| ckotil | but still, ill just use teh sqlreport to fetch teh names of each article asset. i was hoping some new variables were added to page layout :/ | 21:53 |
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| PedersenMJ | mrhairgrease: Responded to pm. However, as I'm actually on an im client, not irc, I don't know if it worked. | 22:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | pedersenmj: it didn't | 22:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Okay. Might need to enahnce the jabber-irc transport sometime, since there's a lot of features I'd like to see done. Anyway, to answer your question: No, I don't. | 22:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Sorry to say, but I don't. | 22:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | no problem | 22:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | so anybody has a transcript of the chat with the pauli guy? | 22:29 |
| +perlDreamer | it was on the forums | 22:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh ok | 22:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'll check ther then | 22:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | thanks | 22:30 |
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| @snapcount | I need someone to see if they can find anything that my patch will break | 22:52 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 22:52 |
| @snapcount | AssetExportHtml.pm | 22:52 |
| greghacke | break stuff!!! | 22:52 |
| @snapcount | Replace line 124 with $filename = $index; | 22:52 |
| @snapcount | and replace 125 with $path = $2; | 22:52 |
| @snapcount | to test you'll need to change the url of /home to index.html | 22:53 |
| @snapcount | and something under home to /index.html/getting_started | 22:53 |
| @snapcount | for instance | 22:53 |
| @snapcount | that's what the patch is supposed to fix as right now that page structure blows up | 22:53 |
| @snapcount | oh crappy pants | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | I see why it was like that | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | that code works if you have /home/doggy.html | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | hmm | 22:55 |
| +perlDreamer | what's the goal of that part of the code? | 22:55 |
| +perlDreamer | separate filename from path? | 22:55 |
| @snapcount | to handle urls with dots in it | 22:56 |
| +perlDreamer | use File::Path to do it for you | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | it changes /home/index.html | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | to folder home | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | filename index.html inside folder | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | but, if you have a url of /index.html/dogs | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | that will blow up | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | because index.html will be a file | 22:56 |
| +perlDreamer | and a folder | 22:56 |
| @snapcount | and then it will try to make a directory | 22:57 |
| @snapcount | you got it | 22:57 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI will let you do that | 22:57 |
| @snapcount | sure | 22:57 |
| +perlDreamer | similar to gun and foot problem? | 22:57 |
| +perlDreamer | "all things are allowed but not all are beneficial" ? | 22:57 |
| @snapcount | if you want your default page to load after an export it has to be called index.html | 22:57 |
| @snapcount | now I think this is what this symlink non-sense is in the export feature | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | I think it was written to handle this case but I'm not sure | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | but I think that would break too | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | b/c a symlink is still a filename | 22:58 |
| @snapcount | just like a directory | 22:58 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 22:58 |
| +perlDreamer | did it used to work differently? | 22:59 |
| @snapcount | so how would File::Path fix this? | 22:59 |
| +perlDreamer | or have we always had this? | 22:59 |
| +perlDreamer | it wo't | 22:59 |
| +perlDreamer | it won't | 22:59 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought the problem was different | 22:59 |
| @snapcount | no it used to be broke worst | 22:59 |
| @snapcount | but this case wasn't accounted for | 22:59 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think this is fixable | 22:59 |
| @snapcount | we need to know which regex had the dot in it | 22:59 |
| @snapcount | then we can order them correctly | 23:00 |
| @snapcount | which part rather | 23:00 |
| @snapcount | $1 or $2 | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | but was can never make a file and a directory with the same name | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | we can never | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | that problem is fundamental | 23:00 |
| @snapcount | yeah I know | 23:00 |
| @snapcount | what it should do is this: | 23:00 |
| @snapcount | shit | 23:01 |
| @snapcount | "/index.html/foo => /foo/index.html" | 23:01 |
| +perlDreamer | then you have to rewrite all the internal URLs, too | 23:01 |
| @snapcount | b/c all of the links inside of index.html will be | 23:01 |
| @snapcount | "/foo/" | 23:01 |
| @snapcount | not "/index.html" | 23:01 |
| @snapcount | it should never be a folder | 23:01 |
| @snapcount | am I making any sense | 23:02 |
| @snapcount | ?? | 23:02 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 23:02 |
| +perlDreamer | how about a .htaccess file which sets the default page to something other than index.html? | 23:02 |
| @snapcount | if it's "/foo/index.html" it should work as it does now | 23:02 |
| -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui | 23:02 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ | 23:02 | |
| @snapcount | well, we don't want to tie apache to the problem | 23:02 |
| +perlDreamer | good point | 23:02 |
| @snapcount | they can export to any webserver | 23:03 |
| @snapcount | it needs to work like I said, I'm 99.999% sure | 23:03 |
| @snapcount | but I don't know how to detect the order sanely | 23:03 |
| @snapcount | another regex on $1 and $2 to see which one has the dot? | 23:03 |
| +perlDreamer | what if they both do? | 23:04 |
| @snapcount | so "/index.html/foo.html" | 23:04 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 23:04 |
| @snapcount | it should tell them they are a moron | 23:04 |
| @snapcount | and to stop using webgui | 23:04 |
| @snapcount | =D | 23:04 |
| @snapcount | this is why I like discussing things in here | 23:05 |
| @snapcount | and also why I hate it | 23:05 |
| @snapcount | now I'm stumped again | 23:05 |
| @snapcount | I guess the answer is what I said actually | 23:05 |
| @snapcount | except don't call them a moron and all that | 23:05 |
| @snapcount | it's an error | 23:05 |
| +perlDreamer | "Unable to export pages due to user naming convention. You may not have pages with URLs like /foo.html/bar.html if there exists a file called /foo.html" | 23:06 |
| @snapcount | there is no logical way to handle that | 23:06 |
| @snapcount | there you go | 23:06 |
| +perlDreamer | document it, detect it, then error out and clean up everthing done up to that point | 23:06 |
| +perlDreamer | leave no traces | 23:06 |
| @snapcount | I think currently the export leaves files there when it "croaks" | 23:06 |
| @snapcount | hahaha | 23:07 |
| @snapcount | I made a pun | 23:07 |
| * snapcount hears crickets | 23:07 | |
| @snapcount | tough crowd | 23:07 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm taping out a chip today | 23:07 |
| +perlDreamer | bouncing back and forth on IRC | 23:07 |
| @snapcount | I don't know what that means but it sounds hard | 23:07 |
| +perlDreamer | you run 4 hours of automated tests on the layout databaste | 23:07 |
| +perlDreamer | then manually verify that all test errors are caused by idiot programmers who don't build chips | 23:08 |
| +perlDreamer | there's only about 250 errors to hand check | 23:08 |
| @snapcount | ok, going to implement this hackery and see if it works... then we can see if there are any ideas on how to make it better | 23:08 |
| @snapcount | sheesh | 23:08 |
| @snapcount | that sounds hard | 23:08 |
| +perlDreamer | just time consuming | 23:08 |
| +perlDreamer | If you have time, write a test that does what you want to do to make sure it dies correctly | 23:08 |
| @snapcount | man this is crap | 23:16 |
| @snapcount | this thing already has 4 levels of if-dention | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | can you refactor them so they don't nest? | 23:16 |
| @snapcount | on it home skillet | 23:16 |
| @snapcount | time for ze method | 23:17 |
| @snapcount | make it perrty | 23:17 |
| +perlDreamer | Let's hear it! | 23:17 |
| +perlDreamer | Give me a W | 23:17 |
| +perlDreamer | Give me a G | 23:18 |
| +perlDreamer | Give me a B and a P | 23:18 |
| +perlDreamer | What does it spell? | 23:18 |
| +perlDreamer | wugibup | 23:18 |
| +perlDreamer | Yea! | 23:18 |
| * perlDreamer hears snapcount's crickets | 23:22 | |
| @snapcount | hah | 23:23 |
| @rizen | Note that WebGUI will perform incremental backups of your site database(s) as it upgrades. This should not be misconstrued as a full backup. This does not relieve you of your obligation to maintain full backups and conduct one before your upgrade. | 23:28 |
| @rizen | do you think that statement gets the point across | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 23:29 |
| @rizen | or do i have to tell the user directly in the book that they are an idiot if they don't perform full backups prior to an upgrade | 23:29 |
| @rizen | this is my little side comment | 23:29 |
| @rizen | in the section about doing backups before the upgrade | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I would do it that way. | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | Here at work we have this list | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | It's called Thumb Breakers | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | if you do it, a nasty little man comes by and breaks your thumbs | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | Make a list like that | 23:30 |
| @rizen | it amazes me how many people don't perform any backups before they do an upgrade, and then it's webgui's fault because webgui's upgrade failed | 23:30 |
| @rizen | it's not their fault for not performing a backup | 23:30 |
| +perlDreamer | oh come, on | 23:30 |
| +perlDreamer | It's not WebGUI's fault | 23:30 |
| +perlDreamer | It's yours | 23:30 |
| +perlDreamer | you're the guy that gets the hate mail for that | 23:31 |
| @rizen | me? | 23:31 |
| gooeybot | hmmm... rizen is a lamer! | 23:31 |
| @rizen | me personally? | 23:31 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 23:31 |
| +perlDreamer | but that's what happens | 23:31 |
| @rizen | it may be my fault if webgui doesn't complete it's upgrade, but it's certainly not my fault that they have no way to restore their site after a failure | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | you know that | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I know that | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | the user doesn't get that | 23:32 |
| @rizen | well anyway..i think that language is going to have to cut it | 23:32 |
| @rizen | perhaps i should go find an image that illustrates the point | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I need to find a way to get the help contents into a wG search engine | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support/wiki-template-variables-/2#idrKyfm7c7Gqqnbb5T03boVA | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil: ping | 23:38 |
| -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: Tuesday (January 30) through Thursday (February 1) are WebGUI bugfix days! Let's clear the list! | 23:38 | |
| @rizen | pd: not possible unless you create a help asset, and then it's still not possible to do it right | 23:39 |
| @rizen | the search engine is for asset search | 23:39 |
| @rizen | and nothing else | 23:39 |
| +perlDreamer | is it okay to try and develop a separate system to allow searching of the help? | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | (standard not until 7.4 disclaimer applying, of course) | 23:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | bugfix days | 23:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | cool | 23:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | unfortunately I won't have time to chip in those days | 23:43 |
| @rizen | pd: yes | 23:47 |
| -!- pjesi [i=pjesi@klefi01.litlahraun.is] has joined #webgui | 23:48 | |
| @rizen | pd: it can't use an index though | 23:48 |
| @rizen | it has to be realtime | 23:48 |
| +perlDreamer | due to i18n? | 23:48 |
| @rizen | mrhairgrease....do you want me to call up joeri and tell him that we MUST HAVE YOU!!!! | 23:48 |
| @rizen | pd: due to the fluid and multi-lingual nature of i18n | 23:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | You do that | 23:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | But then I still won't have time till friday | 23:50 |
| @rizen | in addition, my fear is that an indexed system for help is one of those things that won't be used very much, but will be an ongoing thorn in our sides | 23:50 |
| @rizen | either the index won't get updated on time | 23:50 |
| @rizen | or who knows what | 23:50 |
| @rizen | the less complex it is the better as far as i'm concerned | 23:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | what will the performance hit be on realtime help searching? | 23:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | no too much i guess | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | bad | 23:51 |
| @rizen | who cares | 23:51 |
| @rizen | it's going to be hit so infrequently that it won't matter | 23:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | especially since it won't be used much | 23:51 |
| @rizen | honestly, i'd prefer there to be no help search | 23:51 |
| @rizen | only due to the problems it's likely going to cause | 23:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's easy enough to make some function that searches through the i18n | 23:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | that will only cause problems when you change the i18n and help formats | 23:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | the HoH structure that is | 23:52 |
| +perlDreamer | you can get around that by using the Operation::Help internals | 23:53 |
| +perlDreamer | it will hide the implementation from you | 23:53 |
| +perlDreamer | but whatever the help/i18n implementation will have to be closely tied to the search | 23:54 |
| --- Day changed Tue Jan 30 2007 | ||
| +crythias | BUSCA! | 00:03 |
| PedersenMJ | que buscas? | 00:04 |
| +crythias | cualqiere | 00:04 |
| +crythias | cerveza mas fina | 00:04 |
| +crythias | dos equis, y como eso. | 00:05 |
| +crythias | modelo negro. | 00:05 |
| +crythias | y ademas, estoy buscando para una cosa facil por el LDAP+Samba | 00:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Ay, a mi no me gusta la cerveza. Prefiero bebidas mas dulces. | 00:05 |
| +crythias | mas dulces? como que? | 00:06 |
| +crythias | Jarritos? | 00:06 |
| PedersenMJ | no hay una cosa facil por el LDAP y Samba. He trabajado en eso, y es muy dificil funcionar bien. Es posible, pero siempre hay problemas pequenos. | 00:08 |
| +crythias | sigh. pero necesito eso porque estoy tratando usar un "Single Sign On" para un Linux box. | 00:08 |
| PedersenMJ | Las bebidas que prefiero: Margaritas. Todos los tipos de margaritas siempre me gustan mucho. | 00:08 |
| +crythias | http://www.mexgrocer.com/brand-jarritos.html | 00:08 |
| +crythias | ooh. Tamarind Jarritos! | 00:09 |
| +crythias | me quiero los margaritas. | 00:09 |
| +crythias | bueno, me voy a mi casa. hasta muy pronto. | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | hasta luego | 00:10 |
| +crythias | later. | 00:11 |
| @snapcount | alright perlDreamer | 00:11 |
| @snapcount | pick this apart | 00:11 |
| @snapcount | I'm going to start testing it | 00:11 |
| @snapcount | http://pastebin.com/870706 | 00:11 |
| -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui [] | 00:12 | |
| -!- WebGUI [n=synq@82-171-175-41.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #webgui | 00:14 | |
| WebGUI | good day | 00:14 |
| WebGUI | night even | 00:14 |
| @snapcount | always wanted to talk to WebGUI | 00:14 |
| WebGUI | hi there all, JT, Martin | 00:15 |
| @rizen | howdy koen | 00:16 |
| @snapcount | this is too hard and too confusing | 00:16 |
| @snapcount | I'm going to write a test to do this | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | ++snapcount for testing | 00:16 |
| PedersenMJ | miera. me pierdo crythias por mi trabajo. | 00:16 |
| WebGUI | JT: good thing, sqashing bugs | 00:17 |
| @snapcount | since I'm returning a hash ref I can test it w/o creating folders and files | 00:17 |
| WebGUI | I'll try to find some extra time this week to find some | 00:17 |
| @snapcount | it's making my head spin | 00:17 |
| @rizen | i prefer to crush them...but i'll settle for squashing | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | just push urls and indeces intoit | 00:17 |
| @rizen | sweet man | 00:17 |
| @rizen | glad to have you | 00:17 |
| WebGUI | crushing is more your style, I agree | 00:17 |
| WebGUI | I used to be really good in finding the really annoying ones | 00:18 |
| WebGUI | I'll make shure to get Wouter to join in too | 00:18 |
| @rizen | sweet | 00:18 |
| WebGUI | and tomorrow Joeri will be back from his ski-ing holiday | 00:18 |
| +perlDreamer | how 'bout Arjan and Len? Can we rope them in somehow? | 00:18 |
| WebGUI | I'm sure he will find some time too | 00:19 |
| @rizen | i'm hoping for the first time in many years that we can have a truely stable version of webgui again | 00:19 |
| @rizen | now if we could just get martin to help us | 00:19 |
| WebGUI | Len is very very bussy lately doing some contracting work | 00:19 |
| @rizen | he's saying he doesn't have any time | 00:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | i haven't | 00:19 |
| WebGUI | :) | 00:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | and you sweettalk koen all you want | 00:19 |
| +MrHairgrease | but it won't help | 00:20 |
| WebGUI | that's right | 00:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | we just drink beer together these days | 00:20 |
| WebGUI | I have no influence over Martin | 00:20 |
| WebGUI | martin: that's a good plan | 00:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | yes it is | 00:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | actually | 00:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | let's do it | 00:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | drink beer | 00:20 |
| WebGUI | maybe I could find some bugs and show them to you over a couple of beers ;) | 00:21 |
| * MrHairgrease get's a fresh jupiler from the fridge | 00:21 | |
| WebGUI | I'm in Tilbury right now, no beer for me today | 00:21 |
| WebGUI | I have to get up early in the morning tomorrow | 00:21 |
| WebGUI | I'll settle for a milk then | 00:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | hahahahaha | 00:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | BURGER! | 00:22 |
| WebGUI | hehe | 00:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's dutch by the way | 00:22 |
| WebGUI | sure, man, I bought a marvelous kitchen today | 00:22 |
| +MrHairgrease | it has nothing to do with meatproducts | 00:22 |
| WebGUI | with separate oven and microwave | 00:22 |
| WebGUI | burger, pronounced in the right way is a negative form of citicen | 00:23 |
| WebGUI | zen | 00:23 |
| WebGUI | JT: is the discussion for a separate stable vs. development version of webgui open now? | 00:24 |
| @rizen | nope | 00:24 |
| WebGUI | ok | 00:24 |
| WebGUI | I won't mention it then | 00:24 |
| @rizen | and won't ever be until someone overcomes the hurdle | 00:24 |
| WebGUI | I know | 00:24 |
| WebGUI | the hurdle is just time and/or money | 00:24 |
| @rizen | no | 00:24 |
| @rizen | the hurdle is a technical problem | 00:25 |
| @rizen | if you you have two different branches | 00:25 |
| WebGUI | that is solvable with time and/or money? | 00:25 |
| @rizen | not that i'm aware of | 00:25 |
| WebGUI | you'll have to merge them | 00:25 |
| @rizen | unless you can solve time travle | 00:25 |
| @rizen | tavel | 00:25 |
| WebGUI | and merging costs time and/or money? | 00:25 |
| @rizen | travel | 00:25 |
| @rizen | no | 00:25 |
| WebGUI | or is that too simply thought?\ | 00:25 |
| @rizen | 2 branches | 00:25 |
| @rizen | someone runs the stable branch | 00:26 |
| WebGUI | ah | 00:26 |
| @rizen | then they want to get to the unstable branch | 00:26 |
| @rizen | but their schema doesn't match the schema of the other person | 00:26 |
| @rizen | other branch | 00:26 |
| @rizen | i mean | 00:26 |
| WebGUI | and that is where the real meaning of a 'frozen' version comes to play | 00:26 |
| @rizen | it's the same reason why we can't put out 7.3.334333 once we've put out 7.4.0 | 00:26 |
| @rizen | until that hurdle is overcome...which may be never | 00:27 |
| @rizen | we cannot discuss stable vs dev branches | 00:27 |
| WebGUI | I agree that the hurdle exists | 00:27 |
| WebGUI | and I think it is unsolvable | 00:27 |
| WebGUI | unless... | 00:27 |
| @rizen | i don't think anything is unsolvable...i just don't think i'm smart enough to do it | 00:28 |
| WebGUI | hehe | 00:28 |
| WebGUI | ok | 00:28 |
| @rizen | so someone else will have to come on the scene and figure it out | 00:28 |
| WebGUI | I'll settle for that :) | 00:28 |
| @rizen | maybe after martin is finished with college, he'll be smart enough to figure it out | 00:28 |
| @rizen | =)_ | 00:28 |
| WebGUI | I think the only way to work around that hurdle is accepting that getting 7.4.x to be a seamless upgrade from 7.3.watheverstable will cost a lot of effort | 00:29 |
| WebGUI | each time you want to switch versions | 00:29 |
| WebGUI | I agree, that is very very hard | 00:29 |
| WebGUI | and if you do that, you'll get a lot less new versions | 00:29 |
| @rizen | for other apps it's not so hard, cuz they don't have so much data to worry about | 00:29 |
| WebGUI | to that I agree | 00:30 |
| @rizen | firefox has preferences and bookmarks | 00:30 |
| @rizen | big deal | 00:30 |
| @rizen | both heavily structured, and both small amounts of data | 00:30 |
| +perlDreamer | how about plone? | 00:30 |
| @rizen | also..if you lose someone's preferences or bookmarks..they might be pissed | 00:30 |
| @rizen | but they won't sue you | 00:30 |
| WebGUI | other apps (like webgui, if that is possible) always break a mayor updates | 00:30 |
| @rizen | plone doesn't do it | 00:30 |
| @rizen | when you go from plone 2 - 3 | 00:31 |
| @rizen | you either have to use a migration utility | 00:31 |
| @rizen | which is a pain | 00:31 |
| WebGUI | exactly | 00:31 |
| @rizen | or start over | 00:31 |
| @rizen | which is a pain | 00:31 |
| WebGUI | true | 00:31 |
| WebGUI | so the choice is... | 00:31 |
| @rizen | our policy has always been "your data comes with no matter what we do to webgui" | 00:31 |
| WebGUI | pain in waiting before all bugs of 7.3.x are fixed before going to 7.4.x | 00:31 |
| @rizen | and i think people like that about webgui | 00:31 |
| WebGUI | or pain in switching from 7.3.x to 7.4.x | 00:32 |
| WebGUI | in both ways, to have a (real) stable version of webgui costs a lot of time and slows down new features in webgui | 00:32 |
| WebGUI | but to my oppinion WebGUI has enough features to last for at least the coming 2 years | 00:33 |
| WebGUI | and my english is getting worse each day | 00:33 |
| @rizen | not enough coffee today koen? | 00:33 |
| WebGUI | it's 23:33 here | 00:33 |
| WebGUI | and I got out of bed at 8:00 | 00:33 |
| WebGUI | and I have to get up tomorrow at 7:30 | 00:34 |
| WebGUI | so I'm getting tired | 00:34 |
| WebGUI | no coffee will help me here, besides, as Martin pointed out, I'm really becoming a BURGER! | 00:34 |
| WebGUI | ok | 00:37 |
| WebGUI | time for bed | 00:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 00:38 |
| WebGUI | I'll irc you tomorrow | 00:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | time for blackadder! | 00:38 |
| WebGUI | bye~~ | 00:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | later | 00:38 |
| -!- WebGUI [n=synq@82-171-175-41.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit ["sleeeeepyyyy"] | 00:38 | |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAfkGrease | 00:40 | |
| @rizen | if anyone asks about the slowness of plainblack.com this afternoon it's because i'm performing some disk intensive maintenance stuff | 00:45 |
| @snapcount | wow | 00:48 |
| @snapcount | tests rule | 00:48 |
| @preaction | yes, yes they do | 00:49 |
| @rizen | shhhh...perl dreamer is here | 00:49 |
| @rizen | he'll get a big head | 00:49 |
| @snapcount | 7 of my 18 test urls are not returning the expected path info | 00:49 |
| @snapcount | this freaking rules | 00:49 |
| @preaction | there's never enough pocky... | 00:54 |
| -!- pjesi_ [n=pjesi@client-82-26-25-241.winn.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 01:04 | |
| @snapcount | is there something I should know about is () comparing undef? | 01:04 |
| @snapcount | should I be using a different test subroutine for that? | 01:05 |
| @preaction | () is not undef, it's an empty list | 01:05 |
| @preaction | so () in scalar context does evaluate to false, it is defined | 01:05 |
| @preaction | so defined +() should be true | 01:05 |
| greghacke | I leave for a bit and it gets noisy... sheesh | 01:05 |
| @preaction | snapcount: nevermind, defined +() evals to false | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | w00t! | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | tests ho! | 01:07 |
| @snapcount | uh | 01:07 |
| @snapcount | that printed wrong | 01:07 |
| @snapcount | the sub is | 01:07 |
| @snapcount | "is" | 01:07 |
| @snapcount | is what I was trying to type | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | is($this, undef, "this is supposed to be undef"); | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | works fine | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | I do it all the time | 01:07 |
| @snapcount | ok | 01:07 |
| -!- perlm [n=chatzill@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/0000000000]"] | 01:18 | |
| greghacke | snapcount: you get a look at my SQLForm reply? | 01:39 |
| @snapcount | yeah... there are some login requests that pushed you to the bottom of the list | 01:39 |
| @snapcount | I'm just about done with them and I'll reply to you | 01:39 |
| greghacke | OK. totally understand. | 01:39 |
| @snapcount | we got slammed a bit so sorry for the delay, I didn't forget about you =) | 01:40 |
| greghacke | I just hope I am right ahd what i want is possible. | 01:40 |
| greghacke | :-) | 01:40 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: note that we can't do anything that's possible anymore | 01:40 |
| +perlDreamer | just the impossible | 01:40 |
| @rizen | cool | 01:40 |
| @rizen | i've been meaning to do that anyway | 01:40 |
| greghacke | i really need to not talk anymore. | 01:41 |
| +perlDreamer | greghacke: you're a good sport. Thanks, man. | 01:41 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the first good laugh I've had all day | 01:41 |
| greghacke | rizen: any games you want from Toy Fair Neuenberg? | 01:41 |
| @snapcount | what was the name of the runHourly activity that will purge trash in 6.8 | 01:43 |
| @snapcount | nm... there is a config value in there I need too | 01:44 |
| * snapcount starts up the wG 6.8 vm | 01:44 | |
| @rizen | greg: anything that's cool | 01:46 |
| @rizen | i don't even know what's out right now | 01:46 |
| @rizen | no toys | 01:46 |
| @rizen | just games | 01:46 |
| greghacke | rizen: ok, Will IM'd me earlier with a "what you want" in games. I'll have him snag something fun. | 01:46 |
| @rizen | preferably board can card games as opposed to RPG | 01:46 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 01:49 | |
| +perlDreamer | well, while I'm waiting for a phone call, can I get some help with the Package bug fix? | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I now what's causing the double import package bug that I reported (and that I think is Frank's problem, too) | 01:52 |
| -!- patspam [i=patspam@203-214-35-18.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #webgui | 01:54 | |
| patspam | hey guys, hope that bug squashing is going well | 01:56 |
| -!- MrAfkGrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] | 01:57 | |
| greghacke | rizen: will is all about board games (he's the president/ceo of that company we've talked about) | 02:04 |
| @preaction | i'm going through and doing a bunch of code cleanup on the Calendar, in an attempt to make it WGPB compliant | 02:16 |
| -!- wgGuest14 [i=WebGUIUs@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui | 02:25 | |
| +perlDreamer | when the importer sees that a version of the asset that it is importing exists, it uses $asset->update to put in the new data. | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | This overwrites the committed asset with the newly imported data. | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | without opening a new version tag | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | it turns out that the PHP package that I was using has the main folder set with status pending. | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | so now we have a pending asset with no open version tag | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | and it's lost | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | removed from the Asset Manager and from the package list | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm thinking the way to fix it is to detect if the version that is in the database is committed or not. | 02:28 |
| +perlDreamer | if it's committed, then a new version tag needs to be opened up | 02:28 |
| +perlDreamer | but then we'd end up with two versions with the same revisionDate, since that's pulled from the asset package data, too and I think that screws up the system. | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | any thoughts? | 02:30 |
| * perlDreamer hears echoes of snapcounts crickets | 02:32 | |
| greghacke | *chirp chirp* | 02:32 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: the new revisionDate should not be pulled from the package (imho), since the user will think they revised it when the uuploaded the package | 02:36 |
| @preaction | the new revisionDate should be the current date/time | 02:36 |
| @preaction | that what i would expect, when i put on my user-hat | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | me, too | 02:37 |
| @preaction | plus, what if i modify it after i've uploaded the package? then i upload the package again. what happenes? | 02:38 |
| @preaction | something bad, i expect | 02:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | That's a good question, since the revisionDate is earlier than the max date you may be okay. | 02:38 |
| +perlDreamer | The lead version, locally modified, probably still rules. | 02:39 |
| @preaction | but does it do what i expect? | 02:39 |
| +perlDreamer | definitely not | 02:39 |
| +perlDreamer | I keep waiting for rizen to weigh in with something pithy :) | 02:39 |
| @preaction | would fixing it break anything that anyone's been relying on? i mean, people don't use the package API for anything do they? (would they?) | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | technically, this isn't an API change since the names of subroutines or args didn't change | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | just the behavior of a bug | 02:45 |
| @preaction | if no, i say just do it. at the moment i haven't been suggesting using the package system as much as I could be (as it is infinitely useful, especially soon with the new WCC and the upcoming "Design a Style" contest... have I said too much?) | 02:45 |
| @rizen | sorry back now | 02:46 |
| @rizen | what do you need pd | 02:46 |
| @preaction | well, like I couldn't fix certain parts of timezone handling, because it was expected to not handle timezones correctly, and people were using the broken stuff | 02:46 |
| @rizen | ah | 02:47 |
| @rizen | i'm reading | 02:47 |
| @rizen | so if i read correctly...the problem is that a user may import something into a version tag that has already been closed | 02:48 |
| @rizen | and then cannot commit it | 02:48 |
| @rizen | is that correct? | 02:48 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 02:49 |
| +perlDreamer | not only can't commit, but removed from Asset Manager and from package list | 02:51 |
| @rizen | version tags are not copied with a package | 02:51 |
| @rizen | therefore a new version tag should be created when a package is imported | 02:51 |
| @rizen | however, the asset MUST retain the revisionDate | 02:51 |
| @rizen | of the original | 02:51 |
| +perlDreamer | so what happens if I import the same package twice? | 02:52 |
| @rizen | 2 version tags | 02:52 |
| +perlDreamer | can two versions with the same revisionDate exist? | 02:52 |
| @rizen | no | 02:52 |
| @rizen | the package system performs an update | 02:52 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what keeping the revisionDate will do | 02:52 |
| @rizen | instead of an addRevision | 02:52 |
| @preaction | why must the asset retain the revisionDate? | 02:52 |
| @rizen | because in the future you'll be able to sync entire trees from one server to another | 02:53 |
| @rizen | and if the revision dates are screwed then we can't mirror | 02:53 |
| @rizen | also | 02:53 |
| @rizen | at present, i may export package a | 02:53 |
| @rizen | and then someone imports it | 02:53 |
| @rizen | later i create a new package export of a ('let's call it a.2') | 02:53 |
| @rizen | and i want it to import with the new revision date | 02:54 |
| @rizen | so that it's in order with the old revision date | 02:54 |
| @rizen | the trick comes in | 02:54 |
| @rizen | when a user on the importing site | 02:54 |
| @rizen | updates an asset from package a | 02:54 |
| @rizen | their revision happened on june 26th 2007 | 02:54 |
| @rizen | a.2 was exported on april 1, 2007 | 02:55 |
| @rizen | but wasn't imported until july 1, 2007 | 02:55 |
| @rizen | the a.2 revision of that asset | 02:55 |
| @rizen | should be behind the edit that the user made itself | 02:55 |
| @rizen | because the change occured after the change occurred in the package | 02:55 |
| @rizen | in addition | 02:56 |
| @rizen | it is possible to import package a into site b | 02:56 |
| @rizen | then create package a.b | 02:56 |
| @rizen | and then import a.b into site a | 02:56 |
| @rizen | again, you want to retain the appropriate revisionDates | 02:56 |
| @rizen | as soon as you stray from that | 02:56 |
| @rizen | all sorts of sync errors will start happening | 02:57 |
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| @rizen | because you've got no way of knowing which revision is which | 02:57 |
| @rizen | this gets especially annoying if you do something like: | 02:57 |
| @rizen | take package a from site a | 02:57 |
| @rizen | import into site b | 02:57 |
| @rizen | edit an asset in site b that's in package a | 02:57 |
| @rizen | site a also edits that package | 02:58 |
| @rizen | or rather an asset in it | 02:58 |
| @rizen | and then you export a.b from site b | 02:58 |
| @rizen | and import a.b into site a | 02:58 |
| @rizen | and now you've got a few messes | 02:58 |
| @rizen | the first is that you don't know which revisions have precidence | 02:58 |
| @rizen | the second is that you have multiple revisions of the same asset that have absolutely no change in them | 02:58 |
| @rizen | because the only difference between them is that you didn't keep track of the revisionDate | 02:59 |
| @rizen | i'm sort of rambling here...i've got the head cloud and this is a confusing topic | 02:59 |
| +perlDreamer | so how do we fix the bug? | 02:59 |
| @rizen | i worked this all out in my head, and on a white board, and in some flow chart software when i was coherent | 03:00 |
| @rizen | so trust me that it's important | 03:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I believe you | 03:00 |
| +perlDreamer | is the right thing to do to set the status to anything other than pending? | 03:00 |
| @rizen | no | 03:00 |
| @rizen | the import should create a new version tag for a package | 03:00 |
| @rizen | when you import it | 03:01 |
| +perlDreamer | via addRevision... | 03:01 |
| @rizen | if it works that way...or if it doesn't, then create one manually | 03:01 |
| @rizen | i can't think straight right now to tell you how to fix this | 03:01 |
| @preaction | i should complain to alltel that their site only allows internet explorer to do fun stuff (like an an SMS gateway to an e-mail address feature) | 03:02 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 03:02 |
| @rizen | all i can tell you is that if you're having a version tag problem | 03:02 |
| @rizen | then create a version tag | 03:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I think that will fix it but create a second bug where you can create versions of an asset with multiple version tags | 03:02 |
| @rizen | we definitely don't want to lose assets to the nether-region | 03:02 |
| @rizen | use some logic and figure it out | 03:02 |
| @rizen | or if you can't, leave it for me | 03:02 |
| +perlDreamer | got it | 03:03 |
| @rizen | second bug, how? | 03:03 |
| @rizen | each asset can have multiple version tags | 03:03 |
| @rizen | every revision gets a new tag potentially | 03:03 |
| @rizen | there's no reason that is a problem | 03:03 |
| +perlDreamer | right, I meant to say duplicate revisionDates | 03:03 |
| @rizen | that's not possible | 03:04 |
| @rizen | the assetData table will crap on you | 03:04 |
| @rizen | if yout try to duplicate a revision date | 03:04 |
| @rizen | for an asset | 03:04 |
| @rizen | it's a composite key | 03:04 |
| @rizen | if you have two revisions of the asset on the same date, then they are the same revision | 03:04 |
| @rizen | it should be doing an update | 03:04 |
| @rizen | rather than addRevision | 03:04 |
| @rizen | even in my cloudy state i remember writing the code to do update() vs addRevision() | 03:05 |
| @rizen | it checks to see if the revisionDate already exists | 03:05 |
| @rizen | and if it does | 03:05 |
| @rizen | it does an update | 03:05 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but what happens if, in the package, an asset has the status "pending"? | 03:05 |
| @rizen | otherwise it does an addRevision() | 03:05 |
| @rizen | and if the asset doesn't exist it all it does an addChild() | 03:05 |
| @rizen | then you create a new version tag | 03:06 |
| @rizen | pending assets aren't supposed to get exported anyway | 03:06 |
| +perlDreamer | this one did | 03:06 |
| @rizen | you're only supposed to be able to export approved ones | 03:06 |
| +perlDreamer | It's the PHP BB template from PB's contribs area | 03:06 |
| @rizen | but in the event that there is a pending one | 03:06 |
| @rizen | then create a new version tag | 03:07 |
| @rizen | and attach that asset to it | 03:07 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 03:07 |
| @rizen | i didn't say it wasn't possible | 03:07 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll do that. | 03:07 |
| @rizen | i said it shouldn't happen | 03:07 |
| @rizen | gotta go to bed now...cold killing me | 03:08 |
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| @preaction | i think the issue is the fluid nature of packages. imho i should click the "More" under the asset manager, click "Export package", and be given a .wgpkg, which i can then move around to other systems | 03:14 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe | 03:14 |
| +perlDreamer | wait | 03:14 |
| @preaction | marking something as "Available to Export Package" and then having to deal with the revisionDate stuff is kind of confusing | 03:14 |
| +perlDreamer | you'd have that problem anyway | 03:15 |
| +perlDreamer | so even if we fix this, we need to find out why an Asset with weird status was exported | 03:15 |
| @preaction | not if you ignored the state, status, and revisionDate stuff | 03:15 |
| @preaction | filled in your own values on import | 03:15 |
| +perlDreamer | but then you'd lose the replication stuff that JT wants it to become | 03:15 |
| +perlDreamer | I need some caffeine | 03:16 |
| +perlDreamer | brb | 03:16 |
| @preaction | for mirroring parts of the webgui system | 03:16 |
| @preaction | oh, i see. have spectre make a request for a .wgpkg file from the master, and then update the package on the mirror | 03:17 |
| @preaction | and yet not clobber changes if the mirror happened to change something | 03:17 |
| @preaction | would that be better as two separate features? both could use the package system, but a standard "export"/"import" cycle ignores revisionDate | 03:19 |
| @preaction | whereas the "mirror" system does not | 03:19 |
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| patspam | just out of interest, are any of you guys using an IDE for your webgui dev work? I was using Eclipse with the EPIC perl module for a while and am now using Komodo 3.x but neither have been all that satisfying | 05:24 |
| patspam | main features I'm looking for are refactoring, function/method lookup & auto-complete, and POD viewing | 05:26 |
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| PedersenMJ | hey there. | 05:31 |
| @preaction | patspam: only God's Own Editor for me, vim | 05:32 |
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| patspam | ha I'm with you on that, vim is my editor of choice for single files, but I'm really missing proper refactoring support in a Perl IDE (because I'm a test-driven junkie) | 05:49 |
| +perlDreamer | shell scripts make dev so much easier | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: ping | 06:30 |
| @preaction | yo | 06:30 |
| +perlDreamer | Can I get you to double check a patch? | 06:30 |
| @preaction | sure | 06:30 |
| @preaction | can you tell me where the heck the "Support Calendar" went? | 06:30 |
| +perlDreamer | https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/revision/?rev=3656 | 06:31 |
| @preaction | ah.. manageAssets search does not allow to search for all assets of a certain type | 06:31 |
| +perlDreamer | suport calendar? | 06:32 |
| +perlDreamer | the patch fixes the bug I talked about earlier. JT's suggestion worked, but there's no way to update the tagId since it isn't in the main Asset definition. | 06:32 |
| +perlDreamer | So I had to set it manually. | 06:32 |
| +perlDreamer | It's been tested and works okay | 06:33 |
| @preaction | wtf ical doesn't even work? | 06:33 |
| @preaction | i swore i had that working | 06:33 |
| @preaction | anyway. i'll test your revision quick | 06:33 |
| @preaction | the packages bug? | 06:33 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, man | 06:33 |
| @preaction | what should i be looking for? | 06:35 |
| @preaction | should i be able to export a package before i commit it? | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | what I've been doing is import, commit, import | 06:37 |
| @preaction | i get a "URL not found" when i click export after changing an asset to Make Package "Yes" but before committing it | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | you may have to commit it. I grabbed some packages from PB's contrib site for testing. | 06:38 |
| +perlDreamer | what you found sounds like another bug. | 06:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: knowmad's oldest calendar bug is not a bug, it's due to spectre. | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | nm | 06:42 |
| @preaction | the one about things not appearing right away? | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 06:42 |
| +perlDreamer | bug triage is worse than fixing bugs | 06:42 |
| @preaction | i can't seem to export a package... it either gives me 404, or times out for some reason | 06:43 |
| @preaction | the vm is running real slow too | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll see if I can export a package. | 06:50 |
| +perlDreamer | I've had no problems. | 06:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I set the site_map to a package | 06:51 |
| +perlDreamer | it shows up in the asset manager as a package. | 06:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I was able to export it, then commit the version tag that made it a package and then reimport it. | 06:51 |
| @preaction | must be my VM then | 06:52 |
| @preaction | it's doing horrible things | 06:52 |
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| PedersenMJ | hello again | 06:54 |
| +perlDreamer | PedersenMJ: did you get any test written today? | 06:54 |
| PedersenMJ | Not a one. | 06:55 |
| PedersenMJ | I wish I had the time to learn the testing. I've even slacked off a bit on my docs in progress. Hopefully getting back to that shortly. | 06:56 |
| +perlDreamer | spare time is hard to come by | 06:57 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, I made my situation a bit worse, as I'm changing platforms. Stopping using Linux on the desktop, and starting OSX. | 06:57 |
| +perlDreamer | heroes time. Catch you guys tomorrow for some more bug fixing | 06:59 |
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| Radix-wrk | Heroes rocks :) | 06:59 |
| PedersenMJ | I just record it, and watch whenever. Gotta love mythtv :) | 07:00 |
| @preaction | pfft, bittorrents get me all the TV i want | 07:00 |
| Radix-wrk | heh.. I download it ;) | 07:01 |
| * preaction is watching Firefly for the third time this week | 07:01 | |
| @preaction | Radix++ | 07:01 |
| Radix-wrk | Heroes hasn't even started in Australia yet | 07:01 |
| PedersenMJ | See, if we have time enough for one 1 hour show/night, we're going good. So, since we have around 200 hours of recorded tv shows, we're in good shape. | 07:01 |
| Radix-wrk | Only 200 hours? pfft | 07:02 |
| @preaction | i lost track of the DVDs of archives I have :p | 07:02 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, we only record about a dozen shows. | 07:02 |
| @preaction | 60+, 10+ eps per | 07:02 |
| PedersenMJ | And we don't keep them afterward. No point to it, really. | 07:02 |
| @preaction | oh come now | 07:02 |
| Radix-wrk | yeah, usually fit about 11 or 12 episodes a DVD | 07:02 |
| @preaction | old eps of Babylon 5 will always be interesting | 07:02 |
| @preaction | or Futurama or Family Guy or... you get the idea | 07:03 |
| PedersenMJ | And, for B5, we bought the DVD sets. | 07:03 |
| PedersenMJ | In fact, we're re-watching the series right now. Have gotten to S2E5, actually. | 07:03 |
| @preaction | ooh, where it starts getting good | 07:04 |
| @preaction | i made a lengthy post on imdb about one of the eps in season two | 07:04 |
| PedersenMJ | Which one? | 07:04 |
| @preaction | the one where the Centauri emperor comes to b5 | 07:04 |
| PedersenMJ | And yeah, this is very much where it starts getting good. I think we're about to see Sheridan learning about Morden. | 07:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, that was an awesome episode. Londo... His is a character of contradictions, if you only look at the surface. | 07:05 |
| @preaction | mmmm... mista morden | 07:05 |
| PedersenMJ | I remember reading somewhere that Peter Jurasik had a surefire way for getting into character, whenever he had a hard time finding Londo. He would sit down, wait for a few minutes, and then jump up and (as Londo) shout out "Ah, Mister Garibaldi!" | 07:06 |
| @preaction | peter jurasik and andreas katsulas completely made that series | 07:08 |
| @preaction | http://imdb.com/title/tt0517624/usercomments <- i lied, it was 212 - Acts of Sacrifice | 07:09 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/07/Jan/stateunion.html | 07:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Did you ever read the novels afterwards? I think the series that focus on Londo and G'Kar was the "Legions of Fire" series, and it gave a fantastic sendoff to those two characters. | 07:10 |
| @preaction | i'm wary of fanfiction, after what they did to Star Wars | 07:10 |
| Radix-wrk | what did they do to star wars? | 07:10 |
| PedersenMJ | Those were published novels, not regular fanfic. Think Timothy Zahn's novels. | 07:11 |
| @preaction | yes, the Thrawn trilogy | 07:11 |
| @preaction | the Jedi Academy trilogy (kevin anderson can't write his way out of a paper sack) | 07:11 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah. I liked that series, and would compare the B5 novels I read very favorably. | 07:11 |
| @preaction | (another reason why i haven't read the new Dune books) | 07:12 |
| PedersenMJ | BTW, that was in reference to Thrawn, not the Jedi Academy. Never read that series. | 07:12 |
| @preaction | the Rogue Squadron books were good, but for the most part, the "extended universe" things for any series is just fanservice, and there are far better SF books out there | 07:12 |
| @preaction | Ray Bradbury, Philip K Dick, Robert Heinlein, Orson Scott Card | 07:13 |
| @preaction | Frederick Pohl, Isaac Asimov | 07:13 |
| PedersenMJ | http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/07/Jan/news.html | 07:13 |
| PedersenMJ | You're right, preactionm but there *is* a difference with the B5 novels I read. Namely, that the authors who wrote them wrote from JMS's outlines on what happened to the characters after the series. | 07:14 |
| PedersenMJ | The only story I haven't been able to find yet is what happened to Lanier. | 07:15 |
| @preaction | eh, it's just a personal preference | 07:15 |
| @preaction | lennier, he didn't die as part of the rangers? | 07:15 |
| Radix-wrk | I've been reading James P Hogan's sf lately.. cool stuff - most of his stuff is hard sci fi | 07:16 |
| @preaction | his story was probably going to be done as part of the "Legend of the Rangers" series that never took off | 07:16 |
| PedersenMJ | No, he didn't. He left the Rangers after trying to kill Sheridan. He disappeared, and we never found out what happened to him. | 07:16 |
| @preaction | crap, it's been more than 8 months since last i saw b5, i'm definately up for a re-view | 07:17 |
| Radix-wrk | I never got into B5 - keep meaning to grab the series sometime and watch it from the start | 07:17 |
| PedersenMJ | Do. There's a lot of stuff that builds over that entire story arc. Most episodes can be watched independently, but there's one helluva story to be seen. | 07:18 |
| @preaction | indeed, one of the greatest ever told on TV | 07:18 |
| PedersenMJ | BTW: Something from season 1. At the beginning of one of the shows, when they are doing the exterior shots of ships coming and going at the station, you can hear the voice of somebody in C&C: Earth liner White Star you are cleared for docking. | 07:19 |
| @preaction | lol | 07:19 |
| Radix-wrk | yeah - might trickle down a season or two when I have some spare quota | 07:19 |
| @preaction | wait, quota? | 07:19 |
| PedersenMJ | I forget which episode, but I do remember it as right at the very very beginning. Within the first minute. | 07:19 |
| Radix-wrk | preaction, unfortunately yes, it's next to impossible to get an "unlimited downloads" account in australia | 07:20 |
| @preaction | has austrailia signed international copyright law? | 07:20 |
| Radix-wrk | I'm on a nice adsl2+ link (up to 24MB/s), but can only download 20GB a month international | 07:21 |
| @preaction | that's complete BS | 07:21 |
| @preaction | but i suppose, those pipes cost money | 07:21 |
| Radix-wrk | we've gone one worse.. we've got a trade agreement with the US which includes the DCMA apparently | 07:21 |
| @preaction | 20 gig would get you 5 dvds, 2.5 seasons | 07:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Absolutely amazing story. Very very much worth the time to view. And, as preaction already noted: Londo and G'Kar (Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas) are absolutely amazing. Their interaction... Suffice to say that their substory might actually be better than the main story. | 07:21 |
| @preaction | the main story was marred by network difficulties | 07:22 |
| @preaction | sinclair v sheridan, the 4th-season windup | 07:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Yeah, season 5 wasn't as good as it should have been. However, season 4... That one was beyond kickass. | 07:22 |
| PedersenMJ | Mainly because they didn't think S5 would even happen, so crammed the meat of S5 into the end of S4. | 07:23 |
| @preaction | exactly | 07:23 |
| @preaction | the network they were on actually told them S5 would not happen, until TNT picked them up | 07:23 |
| PedersenMJ | Best character, though, IMO: Marcus. If there were any one character in that series I could be, it would be him. | 07:23 |
| Radix-wrk | Looks like all five seasons incl. 5 movies and pilot is about 44GB | 07:24 |
| * Radix-wrk whistles innocently. | 07:24 | |
| PedersenMJ | Sounds about right. The movies are *not* required, though. Skip them. Get the pilot, though, it sets up some small pieces which will be helpful in the rest of the story. | 07:24 |
| PedersenMJ | *especially* skip "In The Beginning". | 07:25 |
| @preaction | i hated marcus... and the ham-handed love story between him and ivanova | 07:25 |
| @preaction | ivanova + winters, now there was something that could've been something | 07:25 |
| PedersenMJ | ITB: That movie gives away much much much too much of the series. Skip it. If you absolutely must see it, wait until the *end* of the series, then watch it. | 07:26 |
| @preaction | yes, but B5: The Gathering is necessary | 07:26 |
| Radix-wrk | watch that first? | 07:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Might have been ham-handed, but it was part of Marcus, and part of why I enjoyed him. | 07:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Yes, B5: The Gathering is the name of the pilot. You'd be surprised at how important the pilot can be. | 07:27 |
| Radix-wrk | so pilot then skip the other five movies and watch season 1 | 07:27 |
| @preaction | yep | 07:27 |
| PedersenMJ | yep | 07:27 |
| @preaction | the middle two movies are worth watching, a call to arms was okay, and legend of the rangers stunk to high heaven | 07:28 |
| PedersenMJ | I liked Legend for one reason: I always enjoyed when G'Kar got to come in. | 07:28 |
| @preaction | In The Beginning i liked though, if only for the character of old Londo | 07:28 |
| @preaction | The Well of Souls or whatever, another one that was unnecessary | 07:29 |
| PedersenMJ | As a movie, ITB was okay. The timing of it, though... The story that's told actually takes place in the midst of a few episodes. | 07:29 |
| @preaction | true, but it's sheridan's story, not sinclairs | 07:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh god, the soul hunters movie. Now *that* was a real "who cares" movie. | 07:30 |
| @preaction | and it had martin sheen for god's sake... poor decision on his part | 07:30 |
| Radix-wrk | When were the movies created in relation to the series? | 07:30 |
| PedersenMJ | I'm still kind of torn on whether or not the switch to Sheridan was a good thing. Some portions of the story seemed to benefit, I think. And I don't see how they could have worked had it remained Sinclair. | 07:31 |
| @preaction | tveps.com/Babylon5 | 07:31 |
| @preaction | i think | 07:31 |
| @preaction | it was supposed to be a progression, a lot of the eps don't work with sheridan's background as a bit of a hot-head | 07:31 |
| @preaction | admittedly, i did like Bruce Boxleitner a lot better, but i liked Tron | 07:32 |
| PedersenMJ | True. He had to learn to calm down, and quickly. Especially during s2, as he was working his way into the character, there were some noticeable gaps in the performance. | 07:32 |
| PedersenMJ | gaps is the wrong word. Inconsistencies is better, | 07:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Now, g'night. Definitely time to hit the sack here. | 07:40 |
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| -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] | 10:02 | |
| patspam | is the recommended way to handle dates to store them in the db as MySQL date strings and then work with them as epoch values in perl code? | 12:05 |
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| ckotil | is there any search/replace functionality in wG? One of my sites is getting a new name + logo's. | 16:05 |
| ckotil | every instance of abilene will become Internet2 Network | 16:05 |
| * snapcount yawns | 16:07 | |
| -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui | 16:07 | |
| ckotil | snapcount: thx for the macro. | 16:07 |
| @snapcount | must find mountain dew and crunch berries | 16:07 |
| @snapcount | I gave you a macro? | 16:08 |
| @snapcount | what did it do? | 16:08 |
| ckotil | heh last night around 8pm est | 16:08 |
| ckotil | returned menutitle when given an assetID | 16:08 |
| @snapcount | oh... that's like 1000 developer years... I forgot | 16:08 |
| @snapcount | =D | 16:08 |
| @snapcount | you're welcome | 16:08 |
| * snapcount hunts from crunch berries ( I shall return ) | 16:09 | |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o Meatbop] by snapcount | 16:21 | |
| @snapcount | man that hit the spot | 16:24 |
| @Meatbop | which spot is that? | 16:24 |
| -!- diakopter [i=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui | 16:32 | |
| @snapcount | you know | 16:33 |
| @snapcount | that one spot | 16:33 |
| @Meatbop | Oh right. That one. | 16:34 |
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| @khenn | mornin | 16:47 |
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| -!- rizen is now known as BugSlasherMcGirk | 16:50 | |
| @snapcount | if you want to make sure a string does not have a dot in it, should this work: if (! $url =~ /\./) | 16:51 |
| @snapcount | because it doesn't | 16:51 |
| @khenn | no | 16:53 |
| @khenn | that won't work | 16:53 |
| @khenn | you have not on $url | 16:53 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | why not? | 16:53 |
| @khenn | !$url will always be true | 16:53 |
| @snapcount | I just found it | 16:53 |
| @khenn | put parens around it | 16:53 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | ah | 16:53 |
| @snapcount | It should be !~ | 16:53 |
| @khenn | or use !~ | 16:53 |
| @snapcount | ty sirs | 16:54 |
| @khenn | !($url =~ /\./) would work | 16:54 |
| @khenn | also | 16:54 |
| @khenn | make sure you use the match case: | 16:54 |
| @khenn | $url =~ m// | 16:54 |
| @khenn | part of WBP | 16:54 |
| @khenn | oh | 16:54 |
| @khenn | I haven't gotten there yet, but I think you are supposed to use braces | 16:54 |
| @khenn | $url =~ m{ } | 16:54 |
| @preaction | use braces only when using // is confusing (such as when you have a lot of escaping to do | 16:56 |
| @khenn | hmm | 16:57 |
| @khenn | that seems more confusing | 16:58 |
| @khenn | sometimes use // and other times use {} | 16:58 |
| @preaction | / doesn't need "m" | 16:59 |
| @snapcount | man, a search and replace sure is funny looking with {} delimiting | 17:00 |
| @snapcount | but it is easier to see whats going on | 17:00 |
| @khenn | again, I haven't gotten to that part yet | 17:00 |
| @snapcount | the book does say to use {} always though | 17:00 |
| @snapcount | ty for pointing that out... lets see if this stupid thing will pass the smoketest yet | 17:01 |
| @snapcount | sweet... | 17:04 |
| @preaction | so, how's this working with the support? i'll do a run-through on the boards right now | 17:09 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | we'll all be working on it | 17:09 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | every hour or so we'll go take a look at the boards | 17:10 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | and we can round robin login and phone requests | 17:10 |
| bopbop | I posted a bug this am, but it's not appearing. When you reply to a reply in a post, it redirects you back to the pb homepage. Not always, just sometimes. | 17:11 |
| @preaction | actually looks like the boards are clear for the moment | 17:12 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | there is a backlog of workflows on plainblack.com right now | 17:13 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | that's why your bug isn't showing up yet | 17:13 |
| @preaction | which probably also explains the link sending you to PB homepage | 17:14 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | no | 17:14 |
| bopbop | oh, well I'm impatient, so it'll probably post twice | 17:14 |
| diakopter | howdy; what's the ETA for the next WRE release, if you please? Also, does anyone know if it compiles from source on debian without modification? | 17:14 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | there is no eta | 17:14 |
| diakopter | 0.72 I mean, for the debian question | 17:14 |
| diakopter | or, will (should?) the ubuntu version work on debian etch? | 17:16 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | no talk of non bugfixing please | 17:16 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | it's bugfix week | 17:16 |
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| @khenn | I'm working on fixing the PM bugs just so everyone knows | 17:25 |
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| ckotil | bug: prototyped assets (in this case a page layout) do not retain the page layout template. it changes back to default. | 17:32 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | you're not reporting a bug are you? | 17:34 |
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| ckotil | not im asking if this is a bug or not | 17:41 |
| ckotil | no* | 17:41 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i suppose technically it's a bug, but i'm not sure if there is anything we can do to fix it. | 17:42 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | feel free to add it to the bug list | 17:42 |
| @preaction | i'm going to handle the DoS login stuff right away, be back in a bit | 17:42 |
| ckotil | it seems like someone just forgot to pass a parameter to the prototype when it gets created | 17:44 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | actually it's not that | 17:46 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | oh wait | 17:46 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | nevermind | 17:47 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | that is a bug | 17:47 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i thought we were talking about packages | 17:47 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | not prototypes | 17:47 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | carry on | 17:47 |
| ckotil | k | 17:47 |
| * ckotil submits. | 17:53 | |
| @snapcount | BugSlasherMcGirk: Is it ok with you if we don't push undefined assets onto the array reference returned by getLineage, and push an error into the log file? | 17:56 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | yup | 17:56 |
| @snapcount | ok cool, wanted to make sure there were no unforeseen dire consequences like world destruction, etc | 17:57 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | it would be even better if you could find out why it's undefined and fix it | 17:57 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | cuz it never should be | 17:57 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | but that error handling code should also be there just in case | 17:57 |
| @snapcount | yeah I know... I don't have anything that's causing that to happen, but when other assets break, it kills entire sites | 17:57 |
| @snapcount | so that's my intent here | 17:57 |
| @snapcount | sweet, ty | 17:58 |
| @preaction | (webgui stability)++ | 17:59 |
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| * BugSlasherMcGirk scratches head | 18:09 | |
| * crythias hands you some Head n Shoulders | 18:10 | |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | thanks...used some this morning | 18:10 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | this scratch is over a puzzler, not itchyness | 18:10 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | heh | 18:10 |
| +crythias | ? | 18:11 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/avatar-profile-field-does-not-update-immediatly-when-you-are-admin#rpKeSrLw2bCpTg9GgtA7Fw | 18:11 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i know what's going wrong | 18:11 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | but i don't know how to fix it | 18:11 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i thought i did, but i applied that patch | 18:11 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | and it did nothing | 18:11 |
| +crythias | did you restart apache? | 18:13 |
| +crythias | :) | 18:13 |
| +crythias | hee | 18:13 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | yup | 18:16 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | but i also have reload on | 18:16 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | so shouldn't need to | 18:16 |
| +crythias | yeah. I'm just bustin' ya chops. I know who ya are. | 18:16 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | yeah, but i forget basic stuff sometimes too | 18:16 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | ok, let me talk this outloud | 18:16 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | maybe it will help | 18:16 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | the problem is that the storage location id being used by the avatar upload | 18:17 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | is using the filename uploaded as the storage location id | 18:17 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | rather than the generated one | 18:17 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | so when it goes to retrieve the file, it's not there, cuz it's using the filename instead of the storage id | 18:18 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | ok..nope, that didn't help | 18:18 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | back to reading code now | 18:18 |
| @khenn | preaction: why did you leave "can't add/edit tasks" open until 7.3.9 is released? | 18:26 |
| @khenn | If it's fixed, I'm closing it | 18:26 |
| @preaction | as a warning, to let people know. i was mostly just waiting for this | 18:27 |
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| @khenn | ok, it's closed now | 18:27 |
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| @khenn | I want to add a new method to Wobject.pm : | 18:39 |
| @khenn | i18n | 18:39 |
| @khenn | which caches the i18n file of the current wobject | 18:39 |
| @khenn | that way, you can get it by: $self->i18n->get(); | 18:40 |
| @snapcount | Jamie: are you of the clan Vrbsky? | 18:40 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | khenn, what purpose would it serve | 18:40 |
| @khenn | two | 18:41 |
| @khenn | both performance | 18:41 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | explain, cuz i don't see it | 18:41 |
| @khenn | 1) WebGUI::International::->new() only has to be called once | 18:41 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | also..what does it have to do with bug fixing | 18:41 |
| @khenn | nothing | 18:41 |
| @khenn | really | 18:41 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | then shelve it for another day | 18:42 |
| @khenn | k | 18:42 |
| @khenn | well I wasn't talking about adding it today anyway | 18:42 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o Jamie] by snapcount | 18:42 | |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i just want to keep IRC clear for bugfixing the next three days | 18:42 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | no additional spam | 18:42 |
| @snapcount | mmm spam | 18:42 |
| greghacke | can i ask for improvements or changes? I _love_ to hear that wonderful clause... | 18:43 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | no | 18:43 |
| greghacke | there it is! _no_ | 18:44 |
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| @BugSlasherMcGirk | what's everybody's bug count for today? mine is: 0 resolved, 2 asked questions, 1 not a bug | 18:53 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i'm sucking big tim | 18:54 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | time | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I fixed one last night | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | does that count? | 18:54 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | sure, if the two i fixed last night count | 18:54 |
| @Meatbop | Haven't been keeping that close of a count, fixed one, looked into 3 or 4 others, closed a couple | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | you're good by me, McGirk | 18:55 |
| greghacke | i've done nothing. not even find them | 19:03 |
| PedersenMJ | Does reportingt hem count? | 19:04 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but only by 1/2 | 19:04 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | if it's a vaild bug | 19:04 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | if it turns out the be a wild goose chase then you'll be docked 15 bug points | 19:05 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, so far (if you count all the bugs I've found/reported) I might be at 1.5 bug points. Though i think it's only 1. | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | BugSlasher, grnoc's prototype bug doesn't seem to be a bug. When prototypes are added, they inherit style and privileges from the parent. Can I close it and add some docs? | 19:07 |
| @snapcount | damn it | 19:08 |
| @snapcount | all that work on the export fix and it's not right | 19:08 |
| @snapcount | oh well, at least it's easier to correct now | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: it must need more tests | 19:09 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | pd yes | 19:09 |
| @snapcount | no actually it doesn't | 19:09 |
| @snapcount | the problem isn't with the code, but rather the result | 19:10 |
| @snapcount | the urls are translated the way I wanted | 19:10 |
| @snapcount | but they won't work for a static webserver | 19:10 |
| @snapcount | so, my code should treat that case as an error instead of doing what it does | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | Is Kristi online somewhere? I need some help rewording the prototype docs | 19:14 |
| @snapcount | replace all the words with "maybe" | 19:14 |
| bopbop | yup | 19:14 |
| bopbop | I'm here. | 19:14 |
| @snapcount | oh | 19:14 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o bopbop] by snapcount | 19:14 | |
| @snapcount | didn't know that was you | 19:15 |
| @bopbop | hi | 19:15 |
| gooeybot | hello, bopbop | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Kristi, let me get you a URL | 19:15 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 19:15 | |
| @bopbop | k | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.plainblack.com/bugs?op=viewHelp;hid=content%20prototypes;namespace=Asset | 19:15 |
| @bopbop | looking at it | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Here's how it needs to be changed. | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | when you add a content prototype, it picks up permissions and style info from the page where it is added | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | overriding the original prototype settings. | 19:16 |
| @bopbop | alright | 19:16 |
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| @snapcount | Meatbop: do you have the link to the demo you dup'd the LastModified problem on? | 19:24 |
| * perlDreamer coughs | 19:25 | |
| +perlDreamer | cache | 19:25 |
| * perlDreamer hacks and coughs | 19:25 | |
| +perlDreamer | page level cache | 19:25 |
| @khenn | I'll probably be working on the same bug all day. I'm puting YUI controls into the project management system and fixing the page pop up timer | 19:26 |
| @bopbop | perlDreamer: I added the text here: http://rafb.net/p/JsoYiC10.html | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, bopbop! | 19:32 |
| @bopbop | surely, my pleasrue | 19:32 |
| @bopbop | pleasure | 19:32 |
| @snapcount | oh boy | 19:34 |
| greghacke | bopbop: do have have any recommendations for a tech writer in working on some of the docs? | 19:35 |
| @snapcount | I don't know how we can fix your bug Meatbop... I'll have to put my thinking cap on for this one | 19:36 |
| * snapcount ponders into the distance | 19:36 | |
| +perlDreamer | while the sounds of french horns highlight the dual sunset on Tattoine | 19:36 |
| @snapcount | the problem is that the macro has no way to "know" which asset it was called from, so it uses the current asset. | 19:37 |
| @snapcount | which explains the behavior you described | 19:37 |
| @bopbop | greg, I'm not sure what you're asking for...example? | 19:38 |
| @snapcount | maybe we could add an option to the macro that lets you pass it a url of the asset it's in. That way if you always want the last modified time of the asset, and not the container, you could do so | 19:38 |
| @snapcount | BugSlasherMcGirk: what says thee | 19:39 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | are you looking for the last modified date of any given asset rendered to the page? | 19:40 |
| @snapcount | what they want is if the macro is used in an asset, the assets last modified | 19:41 |
| @snapcount | not the container | 19:41 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | that's not the point of the last modified asset | 19:41 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | macro | 19:41 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i mean | 19:41 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | and if they want that then they can already do it a different way | 19:41 |
| @snapcount | but maybe it should get the latest modified date of anything on the page, is that what you're saying | 19:41 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | no | 19:41 |
| @snapcount | or the latest | 19:42 |
| @snapcount | sorry typo | 19:42 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | no | 19:42 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i'm not sure how you could interpret that out of what i said, but whatever.... | 19:42 |
| @snapcount | so the most recently updated thing under the current asset... ok wrong on that too | 19:42 |
| greghacke | bopbop: I have an assistant who is a 15 year tech writer. she's working with a client of mine and is writing tech docs for wG materials. as she wants to be able to provide these back to the community, i'm trying to get her some direction | 19:42 |
| @Meatbop | the documentation for the macro leans in the direction of the person who wrote the bug report, it says that it should update the modified date based on the wobjects on the page | 19:42 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | if they want the last modified date of any given asset | 19:42 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | then they can just do: | 19:42 |
| @bopbop | ahhh | 19:42 |
| +perlDreamer | Meatbop: we can fix the docs | 19:43 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | ^D(%z, <tmpl_var revisionDate>); | 19:43 |
| @snapcount | ok, but LastModified should work just the way it does | 19:44 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | yes | 19:44 |
| @snapcount | ok cool | 19:44 |
| @snapcount | I'll post the solution and close... thank you sir | 19:44 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | and even if it should work a different way | 19:44 |
| @bopbop | greg: you can have her post them to the wiki at http://wiki.webgui.org | 19:44 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | that would be an RFE | 19:44 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | not a bug | 19:44 |
| @snapcount | ok... whole expected -vs- intended behavior thing | 19:45 |
| greghacke | bopbop: will do. | 19:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I updated the docs for the LastModified macro and added an example to the Date macro | 19:49 |
| @Meatbop | cool | 19:52 |
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| @bopbop | umm, every time I click on the Turn admin on link on the demo site it logs me out...bug? | 19:57 |
| greghacke | bopbop: any areas you want covered sooner than later for wiki? i'm doing EMS now... | 19:58 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | refresh your browser bopbop | 19:58 |
| @bopbop | alright, never mind. I don't know WTF was going on, but now I'm in. | 19:58 |
| @Meatbop | refresh the page bop | 19:58 |
| @bopbop | Greg: not in particular | 19:58 |
| greghacke | anyone else want an area written up first? Tammy's bored... | 19:58 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | greg: the docs you guys write are for public consumption | 19:58 |
| @bopbop | I feel so refreshed | 19:58 |
| greghacke | of course. | 19:59 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | so ask the public what they need | 19:59 |
| @snapcount | BugSlasherMcGirk: I need to know how a situation should be handled | 20:09 |
| @snapcount | if you go to the webgui url of an image asset and it's state is trash, you can still view it | 20:10 |
| @snapcount | other assets display the not found page, should they return some kind of 404 error? | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | they being image assets | 20:11 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | yup | 20:11 |
| @snapcount | ok thanks | 20:11 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | $session->privilege->noAccess | 20:12 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | actually | 20:12 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i take that back | 20:12 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | 404 is better | 20:12 |
| @preaction | i just had an ugly thought: what if these people who keep making the vocal whining "I'm moving to <insert PHP-based CMS here>" are those people who get paid to infiltrate forums for advertising purposes? | 20:23 |
| @preaction | i mean, its rather paranoid (they could just be idiots), but still | 20:23 |
| PedersenMJ | Then they're screwing up in their job. | 20:24 |
| @Meatbop | just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't trying to get you | 20:24 |
| @preaction | amen to that | 20:24 |
| ckotil | heh | 20:26 |
| PedersenMJ | See, I'm one of those you should be paranoid about. After all, I've shown up out of nowhere, am trying to make contributions, etc. Now, if I do that, and become well known on the forums (not likely, I hate using forums), and *then* announce that I'm moving to <insert PHP-based CMS here>, that's more damaging than what they do. | 20:26 |
| PedersenMJ | Well, more damaging to wg, and more beneficial to <other> | 20:27 |
| @preaction | offering information is bad though, just disappear and have people inquire as to your status is better | 20:27 |
| @preaction | anything free is taken lightly, something given has little value | 20:27 |
| PedersenMJ | Also true. | 20:27 |
| greghacke | eh, those "inside" could be more damaging but at the same time the crew does listen and does work. the disappearing act can be more damaging. | 20:28 |
| greghacke | the price point is something i find myself fighting customers on. they just don't understand it | 20:28 |
| PedersenMJ | Tell them you're selling them crack. And the first hit is always free :) | 20:29 |
| greghacke | yeah i could. some i have to deal with the magic-box concept. | 20:29 |
| greghacke | they want to know everything, even without a basis of knowledge. | 20:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Ah, I fit more into the "need to know more" category. | 20:30 |
| PedersenMJ | Complete with the lack of knowledge :) | 20:30 |
| greghacke | yeah, but i'm talking executive level with no it knowledge wanting to know how everything works. | 20:31 |
| @preaction | good gravy. i have Perl experience and I still don't understand how everything works :p | 20:31 |
| PedersenMJ | Eww, that's frustrating. I never have found ways to explain to them what they want to know in terms they will understand. | 20:31 |
| greghacke | i had an executive i worked for who heard the phrase "magic box" and just couldn't accept it. had to walk him through ever step | 20:32 |
| greghacke | i made rizen do it :-) | 20:32 |
| PedersenMJ | Ooof. Those are the worst. Worked for one of them once. Worst part was that he *thought* he understood everything technical better than anybody around him. | 20:34 |
| @preaction | best way is to ask them to explain it in their own words, then correct those words, ad nauseum... | 20:35 |
| PedersenMJ | Didn't work with this guy. | 20:36 |
| greghacke | ad nauseum is a good word. they are good people, just difficult to deal with. | 20:36 |
| PedersenMJ | Others, maybe, but not this guy. | 20:36 |
| PedersenMJ | The one I'm thinking of, in particular, would say something, be corrected, and then repeat his original statement. He was also known to tell others that he knew better than them (including arguing with an insurance company about insurance law). | 20:37 |
| @preaction | big man / pig man / ha ha charade you are | 20:41 |
| -!- snapcount is now known as snap_food | 21:04 | |
| +crythias | I don't understand. | 21:05 |
| +crythias | please explain to me why I am here. | 21:05 |
| * crythias has decided! | 21:05 | |
| +crythias | I'm done with this. I'm going with netnuke. | 21:05 |
| +perlDreamer | you are here to service us | 21:05 |
| +perlDreamer | your technology will service | 21:05 |
| +perlDreamer | us | 21:05 |
| +crythias | resistance is purile. | 21:06 |
| +crythias | um. | 21:06 |
| +crythias | puerile | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | ooh! | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | BugSlasherMcGirk | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | read this: 㰀昀漀渀ç€â€€æ˜€æ„€æŒ€æ”€ã´€âˆ€å˜€æ”€çˆ€æ€æ„€æ¸€æ„€â°€â€€ä„€çˆ€æ¤€æ„€æ°€â°€â€€ä €æ”€æ°€ç˜€æ”€ç€æ¤€æŒ€æ„€â°€â€€çŒ€æ„€æ¸€çŒ€â´€çŒ€æ”€çˆ€æ¤€æ˜€âˆ€â€€çŒ€æ¤€ç¨€æ”€ã´€âˆ€â´€ãˆ€âˆ€â€€æŒ€æ¼€æ°€æ¼€çˆ€ã´€âˆ€æˆ€æ°€æ„€æŒ€æ¬€âˆ€ã¸€ã°€æ˜€æ¼€æ¸€ç€â€€æ˜€æ„€æŒ€æ”€ã´€âˆ€ä´€æ¼€æ¸€æ„€æŒ€æ¼€â°€â€€äŒ€æ¼€ç”€çˆ€æ¤€æ”€çˆ€â€€ä¸€æ”€çœ€â°€â€€ä´€æ¼€æ¸€æ¼€çŒ€ç€€æ„€æŒ€æ”€âˆ€â€€æŒ€æ¼€æ°€æ¼€çˆ€ã´€âˆ€æˆ€æ°€æ„€æŒ€æ¬€âˆ€â€€çŒ€æ¤€ç¨€æ”€ã´€âˆ€ãˆ€âˆ€ã¸€äˆ€ç”€æœ€â€€ä˜€æ¤ | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | double crap! | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | Bug Fix: Long-standing bug where variables set in a loop weren't | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | available inside inner loops under global_vars if the variable | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | wasn't actually used in the outer loop. (Thanks to Richard Fein | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | for help debugging the fix.) | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | ~ | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | The newest version of Html::Template fixes the template var nested loop with global variables issue | 21:11 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | sweet | 21:12 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | change the required version number of HTML::Template in testEnvironment.pl then | 21:12 |
| gooeybot | BugSlasherMcGirk: that doesn't look right | 21:12 |
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| -!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui | 21:12 | |
| +perlDreamer | I'm afk for a while | 21:21 |
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| @khenn | approx how many user accounts are on pb.com? | 21:39 |
| -!- wgGuest54 [i=WebGUIUs@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Client Quit] | 21:39 | |
| @khenn | I guess I can look it up | 21:39 |
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| -!- pjesi_ [n=pjesi@client-82-26-25-241.winn.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #webgui | 21:41 | |
| PedersenMJ | I'm going guess that the number is greater than 10. | 21:41 |
| @khenn | yup | 21:41 |
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| @khenn | I'm waiting for 10,000 users to be created on my local box to test PM fixes. Moving on to fixing setRow API method | 21:49 |
| @khenn | question for BugSMG: | 21:49 |
| @khenn | currently, the primary key is being replaced | 21:49 |
| @khenn | if id is "new" or id is passed in | 21:49 |
| @khenn | what that means is that the row is deleted if it exists and a new one created | 21:49 |
| @khenn | I'm thinking that is not the desired functionality | 21:50 |
| @khenn | and that it should bomb if someone passes in a 'new' id that already exists | 21:50 |
| -!- snap_food is now known as snapcount | 21:50 | |
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| @BugSlasherMcGirk | what is your suggested work around | 21:52 |
| @khenn | my thinking is that it should throw an error if the id exists already | 21:54 |
| @khenn | obviously we don't catch errors yet | 21:54 |
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| @khenn | but if the id exist ... | 21:55 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | it will already go fatal | 21:55 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | which is what it's supposed to do for the time being until we have exception handling | 21:56 |
| @khenn | what will | 21:56 |
| gooeybot | will is all about board games (he's the president/ceo of that company we've talked about) | 21:56 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | teh database | 21:56 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | if you get a database error | 21:56 |
| @khenn | not with a replace | 21:56 |
| @khenn | oh | 21:56 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | like duplicate key | 21:56 |
| greghacke | heheh... | 21:56 |
| @khenn | ok, so just try the insert then | 21:56 |
| @khenn | and let the system handle the fatal | 21:56 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | what i'm saying is you shouldn't be screwing around in there | 21:56 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | it already works as intended | 21:57 |
| @khenn | no, it's broken | 21:57 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | then explain again, cuz i'm not seing it | 21:57 |
| @khenn | ok | 21:57 |
| @khenn | as is | 21:57 |
| @khenn | setData only works for tables that ONLY have the primary key set to not null | 21:57 |
| @khenn | because the first thing it tries to do on insert | 21:57 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | setRow()? | 21:57 |
| @khenn | yes | 21:57 |
| @khenn | setRow | 21:57 |
| @khenn | sorry | 21:57 |
| @khenn | the first thing it tries to do is replace only the primary key into the databse | 21:58 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | primary key MUST be set to not null | 21:58 |
| @khenn | yes | 21:58 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | it can't be a key unless that's true | 21:58 |
| @khenn | but if anything else is not null | 21:58 |
| @khenn | setRow does not work | 21:58 |
| @khenn | is what I'm saying | 21:58 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i'm saying you can't have a primary key that is not set to not null (forget webgui, mysql won't allow it) | 21:58 |
| @khenn | eh | 21:58 |
| @khenn | I know that | 21:59 |
| @khenn | forget the primary key | 21:59 |
| @khenn | if you make any other column not null | 21:59 |
| @khenn | setData will not perform the insert | 21:59 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | you mean if you make any other column not null without a default | 21:59 |
| @khenn | no, not null period | 21:59 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | wrong | 22:00 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | if its null | 22:00 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | and it has a default | 22:00 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | mysql will fill it in | 22:00 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | for you | 22:00 |
| @khenn | only if you pass it NULL | 22:00 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | which is always the case | 22:00 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | in setRow() | 22:00 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | for the insert | 22:00 |
| @khenn | no it's not | 22:00 |
| @khenn | replace into $table ($keyColumn) values (?) | 22:00 |
| @khenn | nothing else is passed in | 22:00 |
| @khenn | ie, it fails | 22:01 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | right, and nothing is NULL | 22:01 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | it's not empty | 22:01 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | it's null | 22:01 |
| @khenn | alright | 22:01 |
| @khenn | I'll test it again | 22:01 |
| @khenn | but I'm 99.9% sure you are wrong | 22:01 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | it's ok if i'm wrong | 22:01 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | but it's your job to prove that | 22:01 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | because that particular bit of code has been in webgui for 3+ years and working | 22:01 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | so if it's broken, then you're doing something differently that it doesn't expect | 22:02 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed | 22:02 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | just that it works now, so i'm very leery of you changing it | 22:02 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: is there an internationalized error message for File not found anywhere that you know of? | 22:04 |
| @snapcount | something to the tune of an apache 404 page or similar? | 22:04 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: when was that version of HTML::Template released? | 22:05 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: does it bother you when people say | 22:06 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: a lot =D | 22:06 |
| @preaction | snapcount: it should, if he's configured his IRC client accordingly | 22:06 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | he's afk | 22:06 |
| @snapcount | hehe | 22:06 |
| @preaction | snapcount: as a rule, i tend to direct my speaking, i hang out in a lot of channels with 200-1000+ users | 22:06 |
| @khenn | alright | 22:06 |
| @khenn | that's not the issue then | 22:07 |
| @snapcount | yeah... looks like we'll need to do that more if we keep growing like this | 22:07 |
| @khenn | it doesn't even matter if it's a default ... | 22:07 |
| @khenn | er | 22:07 |
| @khenn | wait | 22:07 |
| @khenn | my test was wrong | 22:07 |
| @khenn | alright, well that's just plain wrong | 22:09 |
| @khenn | apparently there is no such thing as "not null" in mysql | 22:09 |
| @khenn | it must not be working for some other reason | 22:10 |
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| @khenn | ok, I'm wrong | 22:10 |
| @khenn | I had it backward though | 22:11 |
| @khenn | you have to set it equal to NULL in order for it bomb | 22:11 |
| @khenn | but if I have a table: | 22:11 |
| @khenn | create table test_1 (id integer not null primary key, low integer not null, high integer not null default 0); | 22:12 |
| @khenn | I can do this: | 22:12 |
| @khenn | insert into test_1 (id) values (1); | 22:12 |
| @khenn | or | 22:12 |
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| @khenn | replace into test_1 (id) values (1) | 22:12 |
| @khenn | regardless of whether or not a default is put on the column | 22:13 |
| @khenn | it will error if I do this: | 22:13 |
| @khenn | insert into test_1 (id,low) values (1,NULL); | 22:13 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | right | 22:13 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | it's supposed to bomb if you do that | 22:13 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | because the field is not null | 22:13 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | in the case of the first example | 22:14 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | the field is "empty" | 22:14 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | which mysql treats differently than NULL | 22:14 |
| @snapcount | preaction: I bet you would be someone who knows the answer to this | 22:18 |
| @snapcount | if you pass a url to an img src tag that returns a 404 http status, shouldn't that create a broken image link dealy on the rendered page | 22:19 |
| @preaction | i'll take that bet! | 22:19 |
| @preaction | yes | 22:19 |
| @snapcount | wth | 22:19 |
| @snapcount | ok ty | 22:19 |
| @preaction | are you really returning a 404 status? | 22:19 |
| @preaction | use wget to make sure | 22:19 |
| @preaction | also, firefox (i assume) just shows the text in the alt tag, instead of the ominous box with the red X | 22:20 |
| @preaction | i'm gonna make some food, bbl | 22:21 |
| PedersenMJ | Hey, question for everybody here: An e-commerce site has a shopping cart. Click "Add to Cart", and that links takes you to an add-to-cart page, which giv es the browser a 302 redirect. Is this a normal behavior, or cause for concern? | 22:24 |
| PedersenMJ | Oh, and the 302 redirect points the browser at the "view your cart" page. | 22:25 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | take your question to the boards please | 22:26 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | for the next several days only bug fix talk in here | 22:26 |
| PedersenMJ | No problem. With that sort of response, definitely no problem staying away. Later. | 22:34 |
| -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] | 22:34 | |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | was i that mean? | 22:35 |
| greghacke | hrm. I see a pleace, a redirect and an answer | 22:36 |
| greghacke | please* | 22:36 |
| @preaction | yeah. i've been meaner to that guy | 22:36 |
| greghacke | got me. i mean, i deal with a lot and never balk. | 22:37 |
| greghacke | figure, you aren't shooting at me so... | 22:37 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i wonder if he was actually maxscience masquerading as PedersenMJ. I don't usually see PedersenMJ on here until later at night | 22:38 |
| greghacke | you mean iPg? :-) | 22:39 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | yeah | 22:39 |
| @preaction | you mean paulie? | 22:39 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | paulie? | 22:40 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | is that his new name? | 22:40 |
| @preaction | he used it on that WebGUI-Bashing on <something> thread | 22:40 |
| @snapcount | apparently FF doesn't display the broken image link but it shows up in Safari so I guess it's up to snuff | 22:40 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | are you sure it was him? | 22:40 |
| @preaction | the login history confirms it | 22:40 |
| greghacke | for a guy who has slammed wG so hard, it's a wonder he still is even involved. | 22:40 |
| @preaction | he's an idiot | 22:40 |
| @snapcount | this 404 fix also fixes files that are in the trash or other strange places BugSlasherMcGirk | 22:41 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | methinks i should ban his account once again | 22:41 |
| @snapcount | you should ban everyone | 22:41 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i suppose though, he'll just keep creating accounts | 22:41 |
| @snapcount | we could just ban every ip originating from his country and tell them to track him down as he is the reason they can't use wG | 22:42 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | but i don't think that was PedersenMJ...he's never been a sour grapes kind of guy from what i've seen | 22:42 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | one nite he even offered to pay me for a little bit of advice i gave him | 22:43 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | FYI to everyone, i've finally fixed the upgrade 7.1.3 stop | 22:44 |
| @snapcount | cool | 22:44 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | so you can upgrade directly from 6.8.10 to 7.3.x now | 22:44 |
| +crythias | yee haw | 22:44 |
| +crythias | now if we can upgrade 5.x to 7.3 :) :) :) | 22:46 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | hehe | 22:46 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | never going to happen | 22:46 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | not in one stop | 22:46 |
| +crythias | ok.. 6.2? hee | 22:46 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | unless someone else goes back and rewrites all the upgrade scripts | 22:46 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | we're officially down to one page of bugs!!!!! | 22:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | I think it was pedersen | 22:53 |
| +MrHairgrease | he cam from his own address | 22:53 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | how can you tell>? | 22:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | (05:48:09 PM) PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] entered the room. | 22:55 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | my iRC client doesn't show that sort of stuff unless i click on the person's name while they are in the room | 22:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | gaim does | 22:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's how i could tell ipg == ms | 22:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | well who cares anyway | 22:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | i shouldn't keep you from your bugfixing endevour | 22:56 |
| +MrHairgrease | carry on =) | 22:56 |
| @preaction | either that, or three people from the same IP with the same hostmask just hate WebGUI so much, and also have a hard-on for ripping on that DBell character | 22:57 |
| @preaction | with poor grammar and even worse manners | 22:57 |
| greghacke | so does trillian - I have to click the name in the list but I can see people after logout - like i get [20:56] *** BugSlasherMcGirk is n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com (JT Smith) | 22:57 |
| greghacke | well, does DBell deserve it? ;) | 22:57 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i think DBell should get it whether he deserves it or not | 22:58 |
| @preaction | i dunno, i've always felt he's a cool, down-to-earth kind of guy | 22:58 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | but only from PB staff, not from some dick in the forums | 22:58 |
| @preaction | you know, someone you can really rap it down to | 22:58 |
| greghacke | down to earth... maybe they want him 6 feet under... | 22:58 |
| @preaction | ah, i see, wouldn't want me^H^Hhim to get numb to it | 22:58 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | mrhairgrease: i thought you weren't going to be around today? are you going to help us squish some bugs afterall? | 23:02 |
| @khenn | alright, I found out what the issue is with setRow and I'm not sure if this is how it should work or not: | 23:03 |
| @khenn | currently, you have to pass in primary key == "new" or and id | 23:04 |
| @khenn | if either of those is true, it does the replace which is successful | 23:04 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | correct | 23:04 |
| @khenn | then goes on to update the row | 23:04 |
| @khenn | fine | 23:04 |
| @khenn | if primary key is NULL, it fails | 23:04 |
| @khenn | unless id is set | 23:04 |
| @khenn | fine | 23:04 |
| @khenn | however, if id is set | 23:05 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | are you pissy? | 23:05 |
| @khenn | nope | 23:05 |
| @khenn | fine = working ok | 23:05 |
| @khenn | just easier to type | 23:05 |
| @khenn | here's the only issue I can see with this | 23:05 |
| @khenn | if you do an update | 23:05 |
| @khenn | and pass in code | 23:05 |
| @khenn | replace is going to delete the row first and insert a new row | 23:05 |
| @khenn | now, if you don't pass in *all* the data | 23:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | bsmg: I'm trying to finish this paper that was due a year ago | 23:06 |
| @khenn | you may actually lose something from your update | 23:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | i wish i was crushing bugs | 23:06 |
| @khenn | not sure if this is an issue or not | 23:06 |
| @khenn | but if id is passed in, it's not a traditional update | 23:06 |
| @khenn | it's a delete/insert | 23:06 |
| @khenn | regardless of whether or not the row exists | 23:06 |
| @khenn | my guess is that this will affect like 1% of all people | 23:07 |
| @khenn | maybe less | 23:07 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i must have missed something, what would you have to pass in to lose data? | 23:08 |
| @khenn | ok | 23:08 |
| @khenn | if you pass in an id as the 4th param | 23:09 |
| @khenn | and the row exists | 23:09 |
| @khenn | and you don't pass in all of the rows as previously updated | 23:09 |
| @khenn | it is going to delete the row first | 23:09 |
| @khenn | and then add the new row of data | 23:09 |
| @khenn | with everything you passed in this time | 23:09 |
| @khenn | a good example would be the users table | 23:10 |
| @khenn | dateCreated | 23:10 |
| @khenn | if you were to only set $props->{dateCreated} in the event that it's a new records | 23:10 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | that's fine though | 23:10 |
| @khenn | and then called setData somewhere else | 23:10 |
| @khenn | dateCreated would be set to NULL | 23:10 |
| @khenn | unless you passed it in | 23:10 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: did you get your i18n? | 23:10 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | khenn...in order for it to do what you're saying | 23:11 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | you also have to pass "new" as your field data in the first param | 23:11 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | sorry, 3rd param | 23:11 |
| @khenn | nope | 23:11 |
| @khenn | if ($data->{$keyColumn} eq "new" || $id) { | 23:11 |
| @khenn | either or | 23:11 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | ok, then make it do that | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | how about a test? | 23:12 |
| @khenn | I'll make it check both conditions | 23:12 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: I made my very own i18n | 23:12 |
| @snapcount | nice and boring 404 page | 23:12 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | regardless, this is not really going to affect anyone except someone who wrote bad code | 23:12 |
| @khenn | if($data->{$keyColumn} eq "new" || ($data->{$keyColumn} eq "new | 23:12 |
| * perlDreamer needs an IRC client with status notification | 23:12 | |
| @khenn | && $id) | 23:12 |
| @khenn | ... | 23:12 |
| @khenn | not necessarily bad code | 23:13 |
| @khenn | but in most cases you are right | 23:13 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | you're the only one it has affected in more than 3 years, so i'm going to say "bad code" cuz it's you | 23:13 |
| @khenn | I just gave you an example which wouldn't be bad code | 23:14 |
| @khenn | dateCreated on anything | 23:14 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | did you write it? yup you did. | 23:14 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | has it affected anyone else? nope, it hasn't | 23:14 |
| @khenn | it hasn't affected me either | 23:14 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | ie: you write bad code | 23:14 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | then why are you bringing it up | 23:14 |
| @khenn | I write bad code? | 23:14 |
| @khenn | I'm saying it's a corner case I found | 23:14 |
| @khenn | in figuring out how I was calling setRow wrong | 23:15 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i'm over here fucking with you and you're taking me seriously, so i'm just going to end this convo now...carry on | 23:15 |
| @khenn | actually | 23:16 |
| @khenn | I'm not going to fix this | 23:16 |
| @khenn | because your dumbass has used setRow the way you wrote it | 23:16 |
| @khenn | and I'll break other shit if I change it | 23:16 |
| @khenn | =) | 23:17 |
| @khenn | I'm just going to document the possible issue | 23:17 |
| Hinrik | perlDreamer: xchat | 23:19 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks for the recommendation, Hinrik. | 23:20 |
| Hinrik | you mean away status, right? xchat shows away users grey in the nick list | 23:20 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, anything is better than changing my nickname in order to show I'm away. | 23:20 |
| Hinrik | oh, yeah, xchat can announce it when you go away, too | 23:21 |
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| @preaction | does the SyndicatedContent wobject always cache by design? or should it be heeding the "disableCache" config value? | 23:23 |
| ckotil | BugSlasherMcGirk: the version tag never got deleted. its still there in fact | 23:24 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | it currently always caches because some as#*$&*W(@ broke it by creating their own code rather than using setByHttp in the cache system | 23:24 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | ckotil: this is not a support forum, as i've already told you...go post it out in the forums | 23:24 |
| ckotil | k | 23:24 |
| ckotil | ...it was penderson you told. | 23:25 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | no, i told you in the seperate little side chat that you started with me | 23:27 |
| ckotil | oh. | 23:28 |
| ckotil | i didnt recieve that | 23:28 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | sorry then | 23:28 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | but let's just make this official | 23:28 |
| +perlDreamer | unregistered nick | 23:28 |
| ckotil | np. its official. im back to the boards | 23:28 |
| ckotil | ya | 23:28 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | EVERYONE: IRC is not a place for you to post support questions to plain black staff | 23:28 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | EVERYONE: today through thursday, please only use IRC for bug fixing discussions | 23:29 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | there, now everyone is aware | 23:29 |
| @preaction | penderson is a funny name | 23:31 |
| ckotil | pen15derson | 23:33 |
| @bopbop | I can't believe you actually just wrote pen15... | 23:35 |
| @preaction | http://www.penisland.com | 23:35 |
| @bopbop | oh my | 23:35 |
| @preaction | crap | 23:35 |
| @preaction | http://www.penisland.net/ <- HA | 23:35 |
| @bopbop | :P | 23:36 |
| ckotil | yeah.. first thing that came to mind. | 23:36 |
| -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] | 23:41 | |
| +perlDreamer | second thing that come to mind was how to clear the screen before my boss comes over :( | 23:42 |
| @preaction | try /clear | 23:42 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction writes and eraseth | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, man | 23:43 |
| @preaction | or do the bash.org classic and keep writing one-word sentences until it scrolls up off-screen | 23:43 |
| @preaction | also, pen island is not a bad site | 23:43 |
| @preaction | also, this syndicated content wobject is going to be the death of me | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | it needs to be rewritten to use the wG cache API | 23:45 |
| @preaction | it need to DIAF | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | what DIAF | 23:45 |
| @preaction | gooeybot diaf is Die in a Fire | 23:45 |
| gooeybot | OK, preaction. | 23:45 |
| @preaction | if a program is a conversation with a programmer, this reads like a cerebral palsy victim... | 23:46 |
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| --- Day changed Wed Jan 31 2007 | ||
| +perlDreamer | I need some SQL help for a bug | 00:01 |
| @khenn | shoot | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | select sum(Post.rating) from Post left join asset on Post.assetId=asset.assetId where Post.threadId=".$self->session->db->quote($self->getId)." and Post.rating>0 | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | why does this need to join the asset table? | 00:01 |
| @preaction | doens't look like it does | 00:02 |
| @khenn | nope | 00:02 |
| @khenn | doesn't look like it does | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | and shouldn't it sum all post ratings, not just the positive ones | 00:02 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | yes it does | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | Lead me, thuktun | 00:02 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | in this case it needs to join because it's summing all the ratings in the thread | 00:02 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | not in the whole cs | 00:02 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | as far ast the Post.rating>0 part | 00:02 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | that should go away | 00:03 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | that's left over from the 1..5 post rating days | 00:03 |
| +perlDreamer | does the threadId= part screen just the posts in this thread? | 00:03 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | yup | 00:03 |
| +perlDreamer | then does the join still need to be there? | 00:03 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | oh sorry | 00:04 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | i was reading it wrong | 00:04 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | but yes | 00:04 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | in some form it needs to be there | 00:04 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | because it's making it only count the thread ocne | 00:04 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | once | 00:04 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | no matter how many revisions of each post there are | 00:04 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | but it's not doing it right | 00:05 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | the join needs to be fixed | 00:05 |
| +perlDreamer | does it need the max(revisionDate) clause? | 00:05 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | yup | 00:05 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | wow that query is really broken | 00:05 |
| @BugSlasherMcGirk | =) | 00:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'm pretty sure that this is Knowmad's rate bug, but you'd think that by eliminating all the negative numbers that the thread rating would go up. | 00:15 |
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| @khenn | preaction: are you working on calendar bugs? | 00:54 |
| @preaction | khenn: indeed | 00:54 |
| @preaction | almost got feeds fixed, and searches are fixed (i think i closed that one though) | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | rock on, preaction | 00:55 |
| @preaction | tonight around 9:00p perlDreamer is going to assist me in getting docs written to close that one | 00:55 |
| @preaction | or whenever he wants | 00:56 |
| @preaction | i've also been leaving better comments and TODOs | 00:56 |
| @khenn | can we close this? | 00:59 |
| @khenn | https://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/duplicate-messages-in-collaboration-system#j9S4pxOff3pzBGDQGakEDQ | 00:59 |
| @preaction | yes | 00:59 |
| @preaction | Police Squad is absolutely hilarious | 01:01 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: You've been superceded by Mrs. perlDreamer | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | she wants to go out on a date | 01:02 |
| @preaction | what does she got that i don't... oh | 01:02 |
| @preaction | a "date" | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | manana noche is mejor para me | 01:02 |
| @preaction | i see | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | mi | 01:02 |
| @preaction | sounds good, i could use the sleep anyway | 01:02 |
| @preaction | another time perhaps, big boy? | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | Wednesday night | 01:03 |
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| * BugSlasherMcGirk cold kicking brain in nutz...signing off | 01:15 | |
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| +perlDreamer | would it be just stupid to use getLineage to get the lists of posts in a thread instead of crafting another huge query to build the sum? | 02:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | oy | 02:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I drove him to it | 02:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | and me too =) | 02:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | gotta go | 02:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | happy bughunting | 02:07 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, man | 02:07 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 02:07 |
| +perlDreamer | two devs with one question | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | that has to be some kind of record | 02:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | which two dev would that be? | 02:08 |
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| @preaction | oh! i see what he did there! | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | heh, that makes two | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | who's next? | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | you know, the post sum would be a lot easier if the threadId was in the Post_rating table. | 02:15 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: what do you think of that? | 02:16 |
| @preaction | needless duplication? | 02:16 |
| +perlDreamer | saves a 3 table join | 02:16 |
| +perlDreamer | with embedded sub clause for revisionDate | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | make that a two table join | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | eh, I'll quit whining and start writing the query | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | what paste | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | what paste? | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | gooeybot what pastebin? | 02:20 |
| gooeybot | i heard pastebin was magic 8ball says "Try again" | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | gooeybot pastebin? | 02:20 |
| gooeybot | pastebin is, like, http://erxz.com/pb | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | gooeybot pastebin? | 02:20 |
| gooeybot | pastebin is http://pastebin.ca | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: take a gander at this, please: http://pastebin.ca/333601 | 02:22 |
| @preaction | a little ugly, sure. | 02:24 |
| +perlDreamer | next to javascript, CSS, and IPC, SQL is my weakest point :) | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | any tips? | 02:25 |
| @preaction | not that i can see, though i'm not sure if you want joins or left joins | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | isn't the default join left? | 02:25 |
| @preaction | no | 02:26 |
| @preaction | i don't know | 02:26 |
| @preaction | joins are a mystery to me | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | knowmad's bug is actually an unbug | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | what he's seeing is the bug fixing itself periodically | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | the real bug is the double counting of post ratings by the thread | 02:27 |
| @preaction | ooooh | 02:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | getting closer | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | this looks a lot better with placeholders | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen, I'm neck deep in the rate bug. I should have it finished tomorrow afternoon. | 02:50 |
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| @preaction | rofl Bill Gates on The Daily Show | 03:05 |
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| cap10morgan | Is there a way to access DataForm entries via the API? | 03:34 |
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| @khenn | evenin | 05:26 |
| @khenn | anything interesting happening? | 05:26 |
| @khenn | I'll take that as a no | 05:28 |
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| PedersenMJ | Good evening. | 05:35 |
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| @snap_learns | greetings and salutations | 05:58 |
| -!- snap_learns is now known as snapcount | 05:58 | |
| PedersenMJ | How's it going? | 06:08 |
| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. you guys played with Firebug 1.0 yet? | 06:36 |
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| PedersenMJ | I haven't. | 06:53 |
| Radix-wrk | It's pretty cool for exploring html, testing load times, inspecting dom, etc | 06:54 |
| Radix-wrk | http://getfirebug.com/ | 06:54 |
| PedersenMJ | That might have just replaced the web developer's toolbar for me. | 06:56 |
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| Radix-wrk | http://yuiblog.com/blog/2007/01/26/video-hewitt-firebug/ | 06:59 |
| PedersenMJ | No doubt about it: It *has* replaced web developer's toolbar for me. | 07:04 |
| Radix-wrk | Glad to help :) | 07:07 |
| PedersenMJ | Wow... Absolutely amazing tool. This might make it possible for me to finally be willing to switch to a web based development model. Been refusing to do so before. | 07:09 |
| PedersenMJ | Maybe. Definitely makes it possible to see the stuff I've been having issues with, at the least. | 07:10 |
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| patspam | is anyone about? | 09:49 |
| patspam | got a bug question.. | 09:49 |
| patspam | getting some weird behaviour when using a function pointer to WebGUI::Form::Text, seems to want to be referred to as WebGUI::Form::text (lowercase). Errors I'm seeing only apply to WebGUI::Form::Text, not any of the other modules in WebGUI::Form such as WebGUI::Form::Textarea | 09:55 |
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| +MrHairgrease | me? | 15:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | nevr mind that sry | 15:51 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o bopbop] by snapcount | 16:30 | |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o Meatbop] by snapcount | 16:38 | |
| +MrHairgrease | hi language guru's | 16:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | would this be a correct sentence? | 16:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | The conductive properties of ITO stem from two processes. | 16:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | ie. is the use of stem correct? | 16:44 |
| greghacke | Dobrye dyehn, gospodeen Hairgrease. | 16:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | i'm pretty sure that's not the answer i was looking for =) | 16:45 |
| greghacke | I believe it would be correct. Asking an associate now... | 16:46 |
| greghacke | he says yes | 16:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | whoohoo | 16:46 |
| greghacke | (an english degree and a sikh) | 16:46 |
| * MrHairgrease gets that omnipotent feeling again | 16:46 | |
| @bopbop | yes, stem is ok | 16:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | cool | 16:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | thanks | 16:47 |
| greghacke | Hello, bopbop | 16:47 |
| @bopbop | hi | 16:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | now you can continue your bugfixing again =) | 16:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | and hello of course | 16:47 |
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| @rizen | howdy all | 17:09 |
| @Meatbop | Yo. | 17:09 |
| @rizen | man this cold is kicking my ass | 17:09 |
| @rizen | methinks i need to go seek professional medical attention | 17:09 |
| @Meatbop | have you tried those cough drops I mentioned? | 17:09 |
| @rizen | yup | 17:10 |
| @Meatbop | dang | 17:10 |
| ckotil | House MD would be pissed off. citing the fact that its only a cold and you will get better. | 17:10 |
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| greghacke | and if you stuck around, he'd offer you $50 to leave... | 17:10 |
| @rizen | i've had it since around christmas | 17:10 |
| greghacke | yeah, time for the doc. | 17:10 |
| @rizen | so i don't think it's going away on its own | 17:10 |
| @Meatbop | oh man, go tot he doctor | 17:10 |
| * rizen back in a bit | 17:11 | |
| ckotil | greghacke: right! | 17:11 |
| ckotil | yeah. | 17:12 |
| -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 17:21 | |
| -!- wgGuest53 [n=wgGuest5@host81-153-83-215.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #webgui | 17:27 | |
| wgGuest53 | jjj | 17:28 |
| @preaction | kk? | 17:29 |
| wgGuest53 | Anyone had experience upgrading 6.2.11 to 6.3 ? | 17:29 |
| @preaction | a few times, sure | 17:29 |
| wgGuest53 | What do you do with the USS assets ? Delete them ? | 17:29 |
| @preaction | USS become CS assets if I'm not mistaken | 17:30 |
| wgGuest53 | They seem to cause problems in the upgrade script. | 17:31 |
| wgGuest53 | upgrade_6.2.11-6.3.0.pl FATAL: Couldn't execute prepared statement: select * from Collaboration where wobjectId='29' Root cause: Unknown column 'wobjectId' in 'where clause' | 17:32 |
| wgGuest53 | Due to namespace being Collaboration, the script can't insert a wobjectId into the Collaboration table as there's no field. | 17:33 |
| @preaction | what's the upgrade path again? 6.2.11-6.8.10-7.3.8 | 17:33 |
| @preaction | that looks like a bug, it shouldn't be asking Collaboration for a "wobjectId" | 17:33 |
| wgGuest53 | Something like that. Seems to fall over on the 6.3 bit. | 17:34 |
| wgGuest53 | Think I was trying to move to 6.5, would jumping straight to 6.8.10 get round this bug ? | 17:35 |
| @preaction | actually, looks like 6.6.5 is a waypoint in between | 17:35 |
| @preaction | says crythias's wiki | 17:35 |
| @preaction | http://gwybsd.homeip.net/fomfiles/cache/52.html | 17:35 |
| @preaction | the 7.1.3-7.2.0 upgrade waypoint doesn't exist anymore | 17:36 |
| @preaction | so it's 6.2.11-6.6.5-6.8.10-7.3.8 | 17:37 |
| wgGuest53 | Ok thanks I'll give that a go. | 17:37 |
| -!- wgGuest53 [n=wgGuest5@host81-153-83-215.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] | 17:38 | |
| @preaction | imma take a look at the forums, then get some calendar bugs fixed | 17:43 |
| @khenn | have you closed everything in the calendar you fixed? | 17:44 |
| @preaction | yes and no, i think feeds are working again, but part of that "bug report" is "No docs" and that's being fixed tonight | 17:44 |
| @preaction | i think | 17:44 |
| @preaction | snapcount_: whatever happened to this: http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support/how-to-access-nightly-site-statistics ? | 17:52 |
| snapcount_ | omg I want to take the EMS out back and bury it | 17:55 |
| greghacke | which part this time? | 17:56 |
| greghacke | (being intimately familiar with EMS...) | 17:56 |
| snapcount_ | the code just needs to be refactored | 17:58 |
| snapcount_ | when we had the drastic changes from original delivery to what it is now | 17:58 |
| snapcount_ | it all happened so fast that the code is in a bit of disarray | 17:58 |
| snapcount_ | for example | 17:58 |
| greghacke | absolutely. imho, it needs to be generalized a bit more usable | 17:58 |
| snapcount_ | I think I just found two entire methods that aren't even used anymore | 17:58 |
| snapcount_ | well, we never really understood everything it had to be able to do until we were done | 17:59 |
| snapcount_ | honestly, I don't think GAMA did either | 17:59 |
| snapcount_ | but now that we know, and it's been used, I think we can really improve it | 17:59 |
| snapcount_ | but it's daunting because it's a very large and complex application | 18:00 |
| @preaction | do it a piece at a time | 18:00 |
| snapcount_ | kind of like walking on eggshells every time you do anything in here =) | 18:00 |
| snapcount_ | indeed | 18:00 |
| greghacke | it was understood but the requirements gathered were tossed away before you all got a hold of it. | 18:00 |
| @preaction | write tests as you go? | 18:00 |
| greghacke | i still have the 90 page requirements doc. | 18:00 |
| snapcount_ | man, I wish I would have seen that | 18:01 |
| snapcount_ | my requirements to which I wrote the spec were about 2 pages and just a bunch of bullet points | 18:01 |
| snapcount_ | water under the bridge I guess | 18:01 |
| greghacke | it was huge. i spent 8 months gathering them. i'll pass you some stuff | 18:01 |
| snapcount_ | the good news is everyone at Plain Black learned a lot from the experience | 18:02 |
| greghacke | oh yeah. don't think that will ever happen again ;) | 18:02 |
| snapcount_ | the project came at a time when Frank was working out the kinks in a development methodology | 18:03 |
| snapcount_ | so we didn't use it | 18:03 |
| snapcount_ | if we had done it the way it's done now | 18:03 |
| snapcount_ | it would have been much much better | 18:03 |
| greghacke | well, in the end it worked. better than any tool out there. i drafted SQL reports and tools for them that took care of much of their additional needs. | 18:04 |
| greghacke | it ran a 12000+ person show with like 60000 event tickets sold | 18:04 |
| greghacke | i can get you exacts but that is close | 18:04 |
| @khenn | er | 18:10 |
| @khenn | let's not talk about what happened on that project | 18:10 |
| greghacke | some times i like working for myself... | 18:11 |
| @khenn | doug, can you restart spectre on plainblack.com? | 18:11 |
| @preaction | k | 18:11 |
| @khenn | it appears that posts are not showing up on collab systems again | 18:11 |
| greghacke | i would still state that it worked for the customer. | 18:11 |
| @khenn | yep | 18:12 |
| @khenn | I agree Greg | 18:12 |
| @preaction | done | 18:12 |
| @khenn | thanks | 18:13 |
| snapcount_ | is JT out sick? | 18:29 |
| snapcount_ | nm | 18:29 |
| snapcount_ | just saw email | 18:29 |
| snapcount_ | I've been in EMS land... laddy daddee da | 18:30 |
| snapcount_ | what is the built-in function to set the first letter of each word in a string to lowercase | 18:40 |
| snapcount_ | lcfirst? | 18:40 |
| @preaction | perlbot -f lcfirst | 18:40 |
| perlbot | Documentation for 'lcfirst' can be found here: http://xrl.us/uj5x | 18:40 |
| snapcount_ | sweet | 18:40 |
| snapcount_ | that works for all built-ins? | 18:41 |
| @preaction | "all built-ins?" | 18:41 |
| snapcount_ | all perl built in functions | 18:41 |
| @preaction | oh, yes | 18:41 |
| snapcount_ | perlbot -f eval | 18:41 |
| perlbot | Documentation for 'eval' can be found here: http://xrl.us/uj5y | 18:41 |
| snapcount_ | ok I get it | 18:41 |
| @preaction | just like | 18:42 |
| @preaction | perlbot cpan CGI | 18:42 |
| perlbot | Documentation for 'CGI' can be found here: http://xrl.us/uj5z | 18:42 |
| @preaction | perlbot docs for CGI::Debug | 18:42 |
| perlbot | Documentation for 'CGI::Debug' can be found here: http://xrl.us/uj52 | 18:42 |
| snapcount_ | very cool | 18:42 |
| snapcount_ | that almost makes up for all the other features he's lacking :P | 18:42 |
| @preaction | yes, we love perlbot | 18:42 |
| @preaction | you mean the crap like "shun" or whatever? | 18:42 |
| @preaction | perlbot google for snapcount | 18:43 |
| perlbot | oblio: google for snapcount | 18:43 |
| @preaction | rofl, oblio has been dead for a long time | 18:43 |
| @preaction | perlbot -f jump | 18:43 |
| perlbot | No documentation for perl function 'jump' found | 18:43 |
| @preaction | perlbot has other good information too | 18:44 |
| @preaction | perlbot port 80 | 18:44 |
| perlbot | port 80: http - World Wide Web HTTP | 18:44 |
| @preaction | perlbot rfc2445 | 18:44 |
| @preaction | perlbot rfc 2445 | 18:44 |
| @preaction | humph | 18:44 |
| @preaction | perlbot botspeak | 18:44 |
| snapcount_ | perlDreamer will be very happy with this bug fix | 18:45 |
| @preaction | perlbot .nl | 18:45 |
| perlbot | .nl is Netherlands | 18:45 |
| snapcount_ | it returns an i18n error message to tell the user about a null field error | 18:45 |
| @preaction | perlbot 419 | 18:45 |
| perlbot | ESTEEMED SIR OR MADAM/DO NOT BE SURPRISED AS I HAVE YOUR NAME BY A NETWORK OF IRC (INTERNET)/I AM ABDUL MARJEEN BUDAHMI SUPERVISING MGR OF BAGDAD IRAQ BUS STATION/RECENT ROUTINE INSPECTION OF LOCKERS REVEALED A PARCEL, WHICH, WHEN OPENED PROVED TO CONTAIN (20 000 US) ANSWERS TO PERL COMPUTER LANGAUGE QUESTIONS. I SEEK YOUR ASSISTANCE IN MOVING THESE OUT OF THE COUNTRY... | 18:45 |
| snapcount_ | but it also uses the i18n labels for the field names inside that i18n'd message | 18:45 |
| @preaction | nice | 18:46 |
| @preaction | perlbot -f chimp | 18:46 |
| perlbot | No documentation for perl function 'chimp' found | 18:46 |
| snapcount_ | hello? | 19:11 |
| gooeybot | Hi, snapcount_ | 19:11 |
| snapcount_ | ah | 19:11 |
| -!- snapcount_ is now known as snapcount | 19:11 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 19:11 | |
| @khenn | is anyone working on the commerce issues atm? | 19:11 |
| @snapcount | just ones related to the EMS | 19:12 |
| @snapcount | if there are any | 19:12 |
| @snapcount | haven't got that far yet | 19:12 |
| @khenn | ok | 19:12 |
| @khenn | I'm going to work on the commerce items | 19:12 |
| @snapcount | I have the iTransact test info if you need it | 19:13 |
| @snapcount | took me like 15 mins to dig it up lol | 19:13 |
| @khenn | I got it, thanks | 19:13 |
| @snapcount | k | 19:13 |
| @snapcount | Meatbop: I need the blessing of the Graphical Wizard | 19:14 |
| @snapcount | I need to change a core template for a bug fix | 19:14 |
| @snapcount | change is highlighted | 19:14 |
| gooeybot | snapcount: that doesn't look right | 19:14 |
| @snapcount | http://pastebin.com/872258 | 19:14 |
| @snapcount | please let me know if I need to change anything about the html, etc | 19:14 |
| @Meatbop | ah just an error message? | 19:15 |
| @snapcount | yep | 19:15 |
| @Meatbop | seems straightorward | 19:16 |
| @Meatbop | and even straightforward | 19:16 |
| @Meatbop | be sure to put in tbody tags | 19:16 |
| @snapcount | you're starting to go over my head, never heard of that tag before | 19:17 |
| @snapcount | where does it go? | 19:17 |
| @Meatbop | just put <tbody> immediately after the starting table tag, and </tbody> immediate preceding the closing </table> tag | 19:17 |
| @snapcount | oh ok, so not part of my change | 19:17 |
| greghacke | dang, faster typest than i | 19:17 |
| @snapcount | but a fix to the template in general | 19:17 |
| @Meatbop | correct, as long as you're working on it | 19:18 |
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| snapcount_ | internet connection sucks today | 19:19 |
| snapcount_ | if you said anything I missed it | 19:19 |
| @Meatbop | been having similar issues | 19:19 |
| @Meatbop | I just said that as long as you're working on that template anyways, yes, please put in those tags | 19:20 |
| snapcount_ | sure no problem | 19:20 |
| -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] | 19:21 | |
| -!- snapcount_ is now known as snapcount | 19:21 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 19:21 | |
| @preaction | does purge() need to be committed? | 19:24 |
| @snapcount | no | 19:29 |
| @snapcount | tree operations are not versioned | 19:29 |
| @preaction | k | 19:29 |
| @snapcount | only undelete we have is trash =) | 19:29 |
| @rizen | so i don't have a cold. | 19:45 |
| @rizen | i'm dying | 19:45 |
| @rizen | it's cacner | 19:45 |
| @rizen | cancer | 19:45 |
| greghacke | ? | 19:45 |
| @bopbop | of your mucus glands? | 19:45 |
| ckotil | they found a cure last week. | 19:46 |
| @rizen | just kidding...just an infection | 19:46 |
| @rizen | gave me some pills | 19:46 |
| @preaction | aw nuts | 19:46 |
| @preaction | i mean good! | 19:46 |
| @rizen | should be better in 10 days they say | 19:46 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ | 19:55 | |
| ckotil | http://www.studentprintz.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticlePrinterFriendly&uStory_id=c7794f20-dfb1-4494-892d-b529895da103 cancer cure claim | 20:01 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: I need you to walk me through some documentation stuff | 20:04 |
| @snapcount | I think I've got it all down, but I don't want to miss anything plus I know you've made some changes | 20:04 |
| @snapcount | to how it all links together, etc | 20:05 |
| @snapcount | I have some new template variables for the EMS that are the result of a bug fix | 20:05 |
| @snapcount | crap... lunchtime | 20:06 |
| @snapcount | bbiab | 20:06 |
| -!- snapcount is now known as snap_eats | 20:06 | |
| greghacke | snap: as you work on these template variables, keep me in. I'm still maintaining many of the custom templates for gama | 20:07 |
| +perlDreamer | greghacke: it's all in the docs | 20:09 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount, I'm back | 20:09 |
| greghacke | pD: you mean these new ones? | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | when he's done, they'll be in the online docs | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | for the past several months, I've been auditing the docs for template variables | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | things are a lot better than they were | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | there's probably still room for improvement, but they're a lot better | 20:11 |
| greghacke | understand | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: I some questions about karma and rating posts | 20:14 |
| @rizen | k | 20:15 |
| @rizen | shoot | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | when a user rates a post, it looks like they get dinged for karma twice | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | once in the post, then again in the thread | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | is that a bug? | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | (for reference, see sub rate in both Asset/Post.pm and Asset/Post/Thread.pm) | 20:16 |
| @rizen | yup | 20:19 |
| @rizen | it does look that way | 20:20 |
| @rizen | shouldn't happen though | 20:20 |
| @rizen | they should only get dinged once | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | wait a sec | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a Post ding and there's a CS ding | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | you do get dinged twice, but it's one and another, not just the same on twice | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | but if you rate a thread (top post), you don't get dinged for rating a post, just the CS | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | never mind me. | 20:35 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll just sit here in the corner and keep reading source code. | 20:35 |
| @preaction | i never do | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Oh, you should. I highly recommend reading source code | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | :) | 20:36 |
| @preaction | where's the run in that? | 20:36 |
| @preaction | i'm a highly physically active person | 20:36 |
| @preaction | i need to be writing source code | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | that will not only make you highly active, but well employed | 20:41 |
| @preaction | but i never read source code | 20:43 |
| @preaction | i refuse. it's passive and boring | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, that's why I'm in the corner | 20:47 |
| @preaction | that's interesting: the recurring events get completely fucked up all the time... | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I didn't do that | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I just mislabeled Frank's templates | 20:48 |
| @preaction | i know, this is probably something i did | 20:48 |
| @preaction | though there have been more hands in the cookie jar than i realize | 20:48 |
| -!- snap_eats is now known as snapcount | 20:48 | |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: you requested assistanct from document control? | 20:49 |
| @preaction | oh christ... it's that toMysql changing the time zones crap thingy | 20:49 |
| @preaction | damnit frank | 20:49 |
| @preaction | wait what? | 20:49 |
| @snapcount | I have to add some template vars | 20:50 |
| @snapcount | to the docs | 20:50 |
| @snapcount | last time I did this, you wound up doing a commit after me | 20:50 |
| @snapcount | b/c I missed something | 20:50 |
| @khenn | what is dammit frank for? | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | the i18n was missing | 20:50 |
| @snapcount | what? | 20:50 |
| @snapcount | you mean all of it? | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | no, just the defs for the variables added to the Help. | 20:51 |
| @snapcount | ok... I'm going to give it a shot on my own first | 20:51 |
| -!- pjesi_ [n=pjesi@client-86-27-130-79.winn.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #webgui | 20:51 | |
| @snapcount | will you check me when I'm done? | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | all I did was: prove Help/ i18n/ | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | I want to write this down b/c frankly it confuses me | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | the way you have to name everything so it all links up | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe I should revamp my doc talk for the 2007 WUC? | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | I don't know maybe I'm just whining | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | but it just seems harder than it should be | 20:52 |
| @snapcount | no knock on you | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | I know you're working hard | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | no knock received. I didn't write this part of the Help code :) | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | I don't know... I'll do it and maybe I can give examples of what sucks and how to make it better on another day | 20:53 |
| @snapcount | but for now need to close this bug and it requires docs =/ | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | I've got your back covered. | 20:54 |
| @snapcount | ty sir | 20:54 |
| @preaction | khenn: you had me add an explicit timezone change in the toMysql method of WebGUI::DateTime, of course this means I can now go back and use the proper new interface by perlDreamer | 20:55 |
| @preaction | but that's not causing this bug, it's something else | 20:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I still think the recur'er is calculating from 0 instead of 1 | 20:56 |
| @rizen | based upon what i'm seeing from this bugfix week | 21:00 |
| @rizen | we won't be branching for 7.4 dev anytime soon | 21:00 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 21:00 |
| +perlDreamer | but we're shaking out the tarps and nailing them down again | 21:01 |
| @rizen | yeah..it's progress for sure | 21:01 |
| @rizen | it's just that we've got a long long way to go | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I'd still recommend writing a test for the recurring event generator | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | It's the only long term way to guarantee that it doesn't get broken in the future | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen: We need to do an Asset by Asset, feature by feature code audit | 21:02 |
| @preaction | all the easy ones got done yesterday, i'm waist-deep in some nasty calendar bugs | 21:02 |
| +perlDreamer | especially the larger Assets (like Asset*.pm, CS, Matrix, etc.) | 21:02 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: what is the source hash key for in the Help File | 21:03 |
| @snapcount | the method that sets the template vars? | 21:03 |
| @snapcount | or the one that causes the template to be rendered | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | the method that sets, and that particular key is not vital | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | It's just a note of where to look for future reference. | 21:04 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer: that would be nice, but we're not even close to that either | 21:04 |
| @rizen | until we have the bugs on the bug list nailed down...nothing like that is going to happen | 21:05 |
| pjesi_ | when is the next release? | 21:09 |
| pjesi_ | friday? | 21:09 |
| @rizen | wednesday | 21:09 |
| @rizen | next | 21:09 |
| pjesi_ | ok | 21:09 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: how do you handle variables that are only valid if another template variable is set? | 21:17 |
| @snapcount | is there a way to group them under a boolean variable? | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | it has to be handled in the variable description | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | after all, they can be used whether they are defined or not | 21:18 |
| @snapcount | so each one that is set under the condition, you note that the condition must be true | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 21:18 |
| @snapcount | k | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | "if blah is true, then this variable will contain...." | 21:19 |
| -!- Jamie [n=chatzill@207-118-206-236.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] | 21:20 | |
| @preaction | developers: we need to change the WebGUI::DateTime interface, but we're having an argument over naming the methods | 21:23 |
| @preaction | the method is used to convert a WebGUI::DateTime object to the timezone and format used for the MySQL database | 21:23 |
| @preaction | we have: "convertDateForDatabase" or "convertToDatabaseDate" (Date being one of "Date", "Time", or "Datetime" | 21:24 |
| @snapcount | perlDreamer: if a template variable generates a form element, should the entry go under fields, or varialbes? | 21:24 |
| @preaction | questions? comments? | 21:24 |
| @preaction | the current method is named "toDatabase" (with toDatabaseTime and toDatabaseDate for single elements of the Date/Time), which is not as descriptive as it should be | 21:25 |
| greghacke | preference is second. | 21:25 |
| @preaction | it is a preference question, for maintainability's sake | 21:25 |
| greghacke | tagging the tail end as for type is more explicit along with the defined Convert | 21:26 |
| @snapcount | I don't like any of them | 21:26 |
| @snapcount | I have a suggestion though | 21:26 |
| @snapcount | convertToDatabaseFormat | 21:26 |
| @preaction | more suggestions welcome, of course | 21:26 |
| @snapcount | because the object tells you it's datetime related | 21:26 |
| greghacke | well, he didnt say i could pick neither :-) | 21:26 |
| @preaction | can't be just "Format", there are three different formats, Date, Time, and Date + Time | 21:26 |
| @snapcount | oh I see | 21:26 |
| @snapcount | didn't know that | 21:26 |
| @preaction | the above-mentioned methods would convert just the "Date" portion, YYYY-MM-DD | 21:27 |
| @snapcount | is there a different method for each? | 21:27 |
| @preaction | yes | 21:27 |
| @snapcount | ok | 21:27 |
| @preaction | has to be, for each of the three MySQL date/time fields, and WebGUI::Form date/time controls | 21:27 |
| @snapcount | toDatabaseDate | 21:28 |
| @snapcount | toDatabaseTime | 21:28 |
| @khenn | fyi: PBP says methods should be imperative_verb [_adjective]? _ noun _ [preposition | participle] | 21:28 |
| @khenn | and we do camel case | 21:28 |
| @preaction | "to" isn't even a verb | 21:28 |
| * snapcount busts out an English book | 21:29 | |
| @preaction | already looked it up | 21:29 |
| @preaction | preposition, adverb, that's it | 21:29 |
| @snapcount | not for that | 21:29 |
| @snapcount | to get the definition of all those words khenn just said | 21:29 |
| @preaction | also part of an infinitive verb (to run, to look, etc...) | 21:29 |
| @khenn | so convertDateToDatabase | 21:29 |
| @khenn | adjective left out | 21:29 |
| @khenn | or: convertDateTimeToDatabase | 21:30 |
| @khenn | which is lengthy IMO | 21:30 |
| @preaction | i'd like Database first, to keep the Database conversion tools close to each other alphabetically | 21:30 |
| @preaction | (and the User conversion methods) | 21:30 |
| @khenn | remember though that this is a maintainability issue | 21:30 |
| @khenn | not a "find the method faster" issue | 21:30 |
| @khenn | that's a bad arguement | 21:30 |
| @preaction | yes, when i maintain WebGUI::DateTime, i have to find the method | 21:31 |
| @khenn | PBP = WPB | 21:31 |
| @khenn | bad arguement | 21:31 |
| @snapcount | Well, I've determined that I can add no more value to this conversation | 21:31 |
| @snapcount | back to i18n | 21:31 |
| @snapcount | woo hoo | 21:31 |
| @preaction | i also read the docs in alphabetical order, because that's the way the code is listed | 21:31 |
| @khenn | but when you are looking at the code itself, it is supposed to have meaning not only to you, but to someone who is reading it for the first time | 21:32 |
| @khenn | we agree that the verb is convert | 21:32 |
| @khenn | now there needs to be a noun | 21:32 |
| @khenn | convertWhat? | 21:32 |
| @khenn | "To" is not a noun | 21:32 |
| @preaction | implicitly, you're converting the DateTime object | 21:33 |
| +MrHairgrease | convertTheFriggingWebGUIDateToMYSQLSNotionOfDate? | 21:33 |
| @khenn | lol | 21:33 |
| @khenn | yep | 21:33 |
| @preaction | basically | 21:33 |
| @khenn | too long though | 21:33 |
| @khenn | and "The" is not necessary | 21:34 |
| @preaction | get rid of the adjectives, you're left with convertDateToDatabase | 21:34 |
| @snapcount | and the 'S' in MYSQL should be lower case | 21:34 |
| @khenn | Friggin would be the adjective | 21:34 |
| @khenn | actually, all of it should be | 21:34 |
| @khenn | since it's a proper noun | 21:34 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'd call it OMGWTFBBQ | 21:34 |
| * MrHairgrease get back to writing stuff | 21:35 | |
| @preaction | i'll add an alias for you | 21:35 |
| @khenn | convertDateToDatabase IMO | 21:35 |
| @snapcount | but that's backwards | 21:35 |
| @khenn | howso? | 21:35 |
| @khenn | convertDateForDatabase | 21:36 |
| @snapcount | because your converting it to the databases date format | 21:36 |
| @snapcount | there you go | 21:36 |
| @khenn | but what are you converting? | 21:36 |
| @snapcount | the param passed to the method | 21:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | covertDateToDatabaseFormat | 21:36 |
| @khenn | no, it's the datetime stored in the object if I'm not mistaken | 21:36 |
| greghacke | convertToDB<Date|Time> | 21:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | that would do it | 21:36 |
| @khenn | greghacke: missing a noun | 21:37 |
| greghacke | ah, now i see the conundrum | 21:37 |
| @snapcount | if there is no param, the object makes it obvious what's being converted imo | 21:37 |
| @snapcount | but maybe that's still bad practice | 21:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 21:37 |
| @khenn | you still need the noun for readability | 21:38 |
| @khenn | according to PBP | 21:38 |
| @snapcount | I like MrHairgrease's the best then | 21:38 |
| @snapcount | although long | 21:38 |
| @snapcount | it is very clear | 21:38 |
| @snapcount | and doesn't break any rules | 21:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | please note that I have almost never had any trouble with understanding the current naming convention | 21:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | if ever | 21:39 |
| @snapcount | MrHairgrease: covertDateToDatabaseFormat | 21:39 |
| @snapcount | that one | 21:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | so you'll get something like this | 21:39 |
| @preaction | i've always known that any object method starting with "to" does some sort of conversion (ancient tradition) | 21:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | $startDate->convertDateToDatabaseFormat? | 21:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's silly | 21:40 |
| @snapcount | that was my earlier argument | 21:40 |
| @snapcount | but it was shot down | 21:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | in that case it should be | 21:40 |
| @snapcount | or better yet | 21:40 |
| @preaction | i made that argument myself, but PBP says "throw out tradition" | 21:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | convertTodatabaseDateFormat | 21:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | or | 21:40 |
| @snapcount | $startTime->convertDateToDatabaseTime( time() ); | 21:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | extractToDatabseFormat | 21:40 |
| @snapcount | that's really retarded | 21:41 |
| @preaction | snapcount: you can't convert a Date to a Time :p | 21:41 |
| @snapcount | time is epoch and includes the date | 21:41 |
| @snapcount | no? | 21:41 |
| @snapcount | number of seconds since 1970 something | 21:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | preaction: you're just thinking in 4 dimensions | 21:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 21:41 |
| @preaction | for our current purposes, Date is just the date, Time is just the time, and Datetime is both | 21:41 |
| @snapcount | good lord | 21:42 |
| @preaction | and epoch is right out | 21:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | epoch != time | 21:42 |
| @snapcount | I'm really bowing out now | 21:42 |
| @snapcount | this is getting serious =P | 21:42 |
| @preaction | it IS serious | 21:42 |
| @preaction | once this API is locked down, we're stuck with it | 21:42 |
| * MrHairgrease wants to kick somebody's ass | 21:42 | |
| * snapcount chants fight! fight! | 21:42 | |
| +MrHairgrease | I like a lot of the pbp's | 21:42 |
| * preaction wants to be lazy and leave things as they are | 21:42 | |
| +MrHairgrease | but | 21:42 |
| * perlDreamer notes that laziness is a virtue | 21:43 | |
| +MrHairgrease | applying them thoughtlessly | 21:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | is not a good thing | 21:43 |
| @preaction | perlbot laziness | 21:43 |
| perlbot | The quality that makes you go to great effort to reduce overall energy expenditure. It makes you write labor-saving programs that other people will find useful, and document what you wrote so you don't have to answer so many questions about it. Hence, the first great virtue of a programmer. | 21:43 |
| @khenn | well if we are going to implement a coding standard, it's important to stick to it | 21:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | not all of them make that much sense | 21:43 |
| @snapcount | MrHairgrease++ | 21:43 |
| @snapcount | but we already broke one rule | 21:43 |
| @snapcount | so why not another if there is a good argument | 21:43 |
| @snapcount | (like now) | 21:43 |
| @snapcount | cough* | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | slippery slope | 21:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | I say | 21:44 |
| @snapcount | indeed | 21:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | stick with the current naming conventions | 21:44 |
| +perlDreamer | there must be a good reason for breaking _or_ continuing to implement | 21:44 |
| @khenn | how about: | 21:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | i have a good reason | 21:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | if we change some new methods now | 21:44 |
| @khenn | $startDateObj->setDatabaseFormat(); | 21:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | we'll have to rewite the entire api | 21:44 |
| @preaction | the reason for conventions is maintainability, do we as a community feel that specifying that "object conversion methods" are named "to<format>" | 21:44 |
| @snapcount | I think "to" implies conversion more so than set | 21:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | to follow some rule people tend to find silly | 21:45 |
| @preaction | khenn: "set" is bad, nothing's being set, it's just returning the appropriate value | 21:45 |
| @snapcount | even if it's not a verb | 21:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | setThingy is good in my book | 21:45 |
| @khenn | violates PBP. I don't care if we do that, but it needs to be something everyone agrees with | 21:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | it is accepted through the entire perl world | 21:45 |
| @khenn | and something we all do | 21:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | sure enough | 21:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | hear hear to that | 21:46 |
| @khenn | ie: a standard | 21:46 |
| greghacke | ie: a gift to web developers | 21:46 |
| @snapcount | isn't this usually when rizen chimes in and says we're all wrong? | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | paging rizen | 21:46 |
| @preaction | snapcount: i've been holding my breath | 21:46 |
| @rizen | what? | 21:46 |
| @snapcount | uh oh | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | WGBP naming conventions | 21:47 |
| @snapcount | read the last 6 screen fulls | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | may we consider the preposition "to" as a verb for method naming conventions? | 21:47 |
| @preaction | lowdown: object conversion method (like "toString" from Java), named "convertTo<something>" or "convert<what>To<something>" or just "to<something>" | 21:47 |
| @rizen | to is fine | 21:47 |
| @rizen | toString toNumber | 21:47 |
| @rizen | whatever | 21:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | yay | 21:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | so it should be toDatabaseDate | 21:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | ...Time/DateTime | 21:49 |
| @preaction | we have consensus? | 21:49 |
| @khenn | toDatabaseFormat | 21:49 |
| +MrHairgrease | what format | 21:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | there are three | 21:50 |
| @preaction | (format being "Date" "Time" or "Datetime"?) | 21:50 |
| @khenn | allow it to be passed in | 21:50 |
| @khenn | as an option | 21:50 |
| @khenn | it should probably be anyway | 21:50 |
| @khenn | rather than it being restricted to something hard coded | 21:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | you mean as an parameter? | 21:50 |
| @khenn | I'd think so | 21:50 |
| @khenn | yes | 21:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | that seems like a bad idea to me | 21:50 |
| @preaction | the difference between toDatabaseFormat("Date") and toDatabaseDate()? | 21:51 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, if you want to convert a date, make a new object and do it there | 21:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | the latter is easier to remeber | 21:51 |
| @khenn | how about toDBDateFormat then? | 21:51 |
| +MrHairgrease | and is more readable imho | 21:51 |
| @khenn | then you can have toDBTimeFormat | 21:51 |
| @khenn | toDBDateTimeFormat | 21:52 |
| @snapcount | abbreviations are forbidden | 21:52 |
| @khenn | no they aren't | 21:52 |
| @snapcount | that pre-dates wgbp | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | that's why I used mysql :) | 21:52 |
| @snapcount | I seem to remember many people killed on the dev list for abbreviations in code | 21:52 |
| +MrHairgrease | look in your archive for the Martin WTF!!! emails | 21:52 |
| @snapcount | there you go | 21:52 |
| @snapcount | gotta work on something else, back later guys | 21:53 |
| @khenn | Avverviate only when meaning remains unambiguous | 21:53 |
| @khenn | DB is not ambiguous | 21:53 |
| @khenn | since it's used all over WebGUi | 21:53 |
| @khenn | $self->session->db | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | to me, DBDate looks like DBD ate, not DB Date | 21:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | there's your pen island again | 21:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah! | 21:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | If you want to attach Format to the method names | 21:54 |
| +MrHairgrease | go ahead | 21:54 |
| @khenn | well that's why pbp says to use underscores =p | 21:54 |
| @preaction | i wish we'd be using underscores :p | 21:55 |
| +MrHairgrease | but I think it's unnecessary | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | now that we have a ruling from rizen, maybe we should revisit the original problem | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: will you please restate it? | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | what we have, and what the question is? | 21:55 |
| @preaction | the original problem that we worked out to make the current problem? | 21:56 |
| +perlDreamer | no. the original naming convention, and what the proposal for changing the name was | 21:56 |
| -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAfkGrease | 21:56 | |
| @khenn | <preaction> the method is used to convert a WebGUI::DateTime object to the timezone and format used for the MySQL database | 21:56 |
| @preaction | oh that | 21:57 |
| @khenn | what is returned? | 21:57 |
| @khenn | is it a string? | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 21:57 |
| @khenn | emergency - discussion on hold | 22:02 |
| +perlDreamer | no sweat | 22:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll go for a run | 22:02 |
| ckotil | rfe: expand apon WebGUI Collateral Image Manager. Goal: to use webgui as a document management system. | 22:03 |
| -!- Jamie [n=chatzill@207-118-206-236.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #webgui | 22:15 | |
| -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 22:41 | |
| -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] | 22:41 | |
| -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui | 22:51 | |
| -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] | 22:52 | |
| -!- greghacke [n=greghack@c-24-23-66-147.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"] | 22:55 | |
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| +MrAfkGrease | anybody knows a way to grep through pdf's? | 23:13 |
| +perlDreamer | pdftotext? | 23:15 |
| +MrAfkGrease | yeah | 23:15 |
| +MrAfkGrease | but how do i know which file my text is in? | 23:15 |
| +perlDreamer | use STDOUT as the second argument | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | pdftotext file.pdf - | grep blah | 23:16 |
| +MrAfkGrease | no | 23:16 |
| +MrAfkGrease | that's not what i want | 23:16 |
| +MrAfkGrease | i wanna do this | 23:16 |
| +MrAfkGrease | pdftotext *.pdf | grep bl;ah | 23:16 |
| +MrAfkGrease | i need to which file | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | do you use bash or tcsh? | 23:17 |
| +MrAfkGrease | bash | 23:17 |
| +MrAfkGrease | no | 23:17 |
| +MrAfkGrease | dash | 23:17 |
| +MrAfkGrease | almost the same thing i think | 23:17 |
| +perlDreamer | well, I'll give you pseudocode and you can adapt it | 23:17 |
| +MrAfkGrease | ok thanks | 23:18 |
| +MrAfkGrease | first im gonna try somethin else though | 23:18 |
| +MrAfkGrease | pls wait | 23:18 |
| +perlDreamer | for file in *.pdf; do echo $file; pdftotext $file - | grep -l blah; done | 23:18 |
| +MrAfkGrease | crap | 23:23 |
| +MrAfkGrease | it's just listing all files | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | remove the -l | 23:24 |
| +MrAfkGrease | did that | 23:24 |
| +MrAfkGrease | didn't help | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | then the string isn't in there | 23:24 |
| +MrAfkGrease | sry | 23:26 |
| +MrAfkGrease | it is working | 23:26 |
| +MrAfkGrease | i'm just being dumb | 23:26 |
| -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@103.240.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui | 23:27 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ | 23:27 | |
| +MrAfkGrease | martin@hopla:~/Desktop/oled$ for file in *.pdf; do echo $file; pdftotext $file - | grep -l Transparent; done | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | elsevier-0040-6090.pdf | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | (standard input) | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | JJAP-45-L947.pdf | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | JVA000288.pdf | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | (standard input) | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | JVA001866.pdf | 23:27 |
| -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] | 23:27 | |
| +MrAfkGrease | (standard input) | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | SYM000974.pdf | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | SYM001902.pdf | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | ThinSolidFilms394-219-233.pdf | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | (standard input) | 23:27 |
| @snapcount | wtf?! | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | Transparent_and_conducting_ITO_films_new_devlopments_and_applications.pdf | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | (standard input) | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | Standard input means i've grepp correctly | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | omg bbq | 23:27 |
| +MrAfkGrease | sory for that | 23:27 |
| +perlDreamer | np | 23:28 |
| @snapcount | I just about kicked you | 23:28 |
| @snapcount | I thought you had a cat crawling on your keyboard or something | 23:28 |
| +MrAfkGrease | no man | 23:28 |
| +perlDreamer | his can is smart | 23:28 |
| +perlDreamer | it can type .pdf several times in successino | 23:28 |
| +MrAfkGrease | this is hardcore university something stuff | 23:28 |
| @snapcount | a genetically modified cat? | 23:28 |
| +MrAfkGrease | well i still have a mouse on my desk | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought he did silicon, but maybe HairGrease is expanding | 23:29 |
| +MrAfkGrease | ok that wasn't funny | 23:29 |
| @snapcount | maybe he was chasing the mouse | 23:29 |
| @snapcount | now that *really* wasn't funny | 23:29 |
| +MrAfkGrease | i've met my match | 23:29 |
| +MrAfkGrease | finally | 23:30 |
| @snapcount | heh | 23:30 |
| +MrAfkGrease | time for a beer | 23:30 |
| @snapcount | back to bugs weeeee | 23:30 |
| +MrAfkGrease | good luck | 23:31 |
| +perlDreamer | shouldn't need luck | 23:31 |
| +perlDreamer | we're good at putting bugs into WebGUI | 23:31 |
| +MrAfkGrease | that's for sure =) | 23:31 |
| @snapcount | so perlDreamer: I discovered this entire template has not been documented | 23:32 |
| @snapcount | so I'm documenting it | 23:32 |
| @snapcount | should make you happy | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | which one did I miss? | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | is it EMS? | 23:32 |
| @snapcount | either that or it is documented and I've wasted an hour of my life | 23:32 |
| @snapcount | the checkout template | 23:32 |
| @snapcount | in the EMS | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | There are 5 Assets I haven't reviewed yet | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | EMS | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Event | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Calendar | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | Matrix | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | and Shortcut | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I wouldn't doubt there's missing stuff in all of them | 23:33 |
| preaction_ | *cough* you're going to be wicked mad when you look at the calendar :p | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I doubt it | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I've done worse | 23:33 |
| -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction | 23:33 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ | 23:33 | |
| +perlDreamer | I volunteered to do all the initial i18n and docs for the EMS | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | just haven't kept up with the updates | 23:34 |
| @snapcount | crap crap | 23:35 |
| @snapcount | I'm cut off b/c my vm can't get an IP addy | 23:35 |
| @snapcount | my wireless router stopped working so the only way I could get online was to connect straight to the cable modem | 23:35 |
| @snapcount | it only gives me one IP =/ | 23:36 |
| @preaction | snapcount: i've noticed that whenever i leave my home network, Parallels doesn't understand and will not get an internet connection | 23:37 |
| @preaction | also, i can't connect to parallels using scp or ssh | 23:37 |
| @snapcount | I've never had those problems | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | me either | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't use Parallels | 23:38 |
| @snapcount | do you use the same network adapter at both networks? | 23:38 |
| @snapcount | wireless or wired | 23:38 |
| @preaction | wireless | 23:38 |
| @snapcount | at both places? | 23:38 |
| @preaction | yes | 23:38 |
| @snapcount | hmm | 23:38 |
| @snapcount | that works for me fine | 23:38 |
| @preaction | one was at JT's house | 23:38 |
| @preaction | it might be that i'm using "Generic 2.16 Linux Kernel" instead of a specific one | 23:39 |
| @preaction | since using the Debian one does not work for Ubuntu | 23:39 |
| @preaction | rather didn't work for me | 23:39 |
| ckotil | can additional meta data info be accessed via a tmpl_var ? | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | like asset meta data? | 23:41 |
| ckotil | yes. | 23:42 |
| +perlDreamer | <tmpl_var metaDataFieldName> should work | 23:43 |
| ckotil | sweet. thanks | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | no problem. | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm sure that I can count on your vote in the next election | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | snapcount: this is a good read http://www.kineticode.com/docs/polymorphic_database_design.pdf | 23:44 |
| @snapcount | sounds cool | 23:45 |
| @snapcount | like a 6 headed badger or a ferral earth worm | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | It means "no more joins" | 23:45 |
| @snapcount | has that same ring to it | 23:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I've finally got this worked out | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | inheritance rocks | 23:50 |
| @snapcount | oo programming can be very elegant | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, as I found out, not in this case | 23:59 |
| @snapcount | heh | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Thu Feb 01 00:00:25 2007 | ||
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