--- Log opened Thu Feb 01 00:00:25 2007
00:06 <+perlDreamer> the problem is the thread/post relationship
00:06 <+perlDreamer> if you rate a post, then it needs to go recalculate the thread
00:06 <+perlDreamer> but since a Thread ISA Post, it ends up doing things twice
00:06 <+perlDreamer> again!
00:07 <+perlDreamer> I just need to break all the parts out and call them separately instead of using inheritance
00:07 <+perlDreamer> threads should have their own rating counter
00:07 <+perlDreamer> threadRating
00:07 <+perlDreamer> then this would all go away
00:07 <+perlDreamer> all the logic and code would reduce down to almost nothing
00:09 <+perlDreamer> rizen: you awake?
00:09 <@rizen> working on support problems
00:09 <@rizen> is it something quick?
00:09 <+perlDreamer> can I add a new column to the thread table to hold the summed thread rating?
00:10 <@rizen> doesn't it already have one for that?
00:10 <+perlDreamer> no
00:10 <+perlDreamer> it recycles the Post rating column
00:10 <@rizen> sure
00:10 <@rizen> oh right
00:10 <+perlDreamer> I'll make sure that we can display the right thing in the Post view template.
00:11 <@rizen> so you want to keep the thread post seperate from the thread overall
00:11 <+perlDreamer> If so, then I'll do it
00:11 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:11 <@rizen> go for it
00:11 <+perlDreamer> okay
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00:14 < onioncoder> has anyone seen Google Gadgets? Anyone thought of allowing any webgui asset to be a "gadget" that could be dropped into anyone else's non-webgui website via a snippet of code?
00:17 <@preaction> an XMLRPC interface that returns JSON output? a javascript library that parses it and spits out HTML?
00:17 <@preaction> i mean, some assets have RSS feeds
00:17 <@preaction> what kind of code are you talking about writing to interface with whatever interface is built?
00:18 < onioncoder> (looking for an example for you)]
00:18 <@preaction> Javascript? Perl? <other>?
00:18 <+perlDreamer> preaction, maybe AJAX instead of XMLRPC?
00:18 <@preaction> *twitch* PHP?
00:18 < onioncoder> http://www.google.com/apis/gadgets/index.html
00:19 <@preaction> ajax is just a standard http call, so perhaps "?func=ajax;method=XXX"?
00:19 < onioncoder> the way google does it, I *think*, is a <script > javascript link
00:19 < onioncoder> that does ajax back to google for content
00:19 < onioncoder> since webgui assets can be "ajaxified" already (most i think)
00:20  * perlDreamer flushes preaction's keyboard buffer and remove all references to PHP
00:20 < onioncoder> the idea would be to allow a script tag on a remote site to fetch *just* that asset
00:20  * perlDreamer hits the reset button
00:20 <+perlDreamer> is that better preaction?
00:20 <@preaction> is what better?
00:20 <@preaction> ahh, mind-wipes
00:20 <@preaction> i'm not worried, because i never knew i could be worried!
00:20 <+perlDreamer> I thought you locked up there
00:21 <+perlDreamer> after the *twitch
00:21 <@preaction> but if i read that line again, i'll have whatever it was that made me twitch on my head again, and that would make me twitch again
00:21 <@preaction> anyway
00:21 < onioncoder> anyone? anyone? ferris? 
00:21 <@preaction> well, currently we have the RSSCapable mixin
00:22 < onioncoder> here's an eg of a google map: <script src="http://gmodules.com/ig/ifr?url=http://ralph.feedback.googlepages.com/googlemap.xml&amp;up_locname=Google&amp;up_loc=1600%20Amphitheatre%20Parkway%2C%20Mountain%20View%2C%20CA&amp;up_zoom=Street&amp;up_view=Map&amp;synd=open&amp;w=320&amp;h=200&amp;title=Google+Map&amp;border=%23ffffff%7C3px%2C1px+solid+%23999999&amp;output=js"></script>
00:22 <@preaction> perhaps a "GadgetCapable" or something that would provide a www_ajax method and an interface to override
00:22 < onioncoder> drop that code into any html and voila
00:22 < onioncoder> right - exactly
00:23 <@preaction> this is more of a community building feature
00:23 <@preaction> and the CS is turning into a monster 
00:24 <@preaction> and XMLRPC sucks for the most part anyway, since AJAX uses JavaScript
00:24 <@preaction> i say it's a good idea, but i also say it's a rather intensive idea that needs to be developed appropriately
00:25 < onioncoder> right - i'm thinking of a fund a feature with pb
00:25 <@preaction> (but along the lines of the RSSCapable asset mixin)
00:25 <@preaction> rather, asset base
00:25 <@preaction> contact the appropriate people for a quote, though i'll warn you that it will probably be larger than you might expect
00:26 <@preaction> is there a limit to your desire? just the CS wobject for example?
00:26 < onioncoder> k - what are the pitfalls you are seeing?
00:26 <@preaction> it CAN be done for all Assets, but that takes more time
00:26 <@preaction> the Calendar would be a good candidate for this
00:26 <@preaction> but there's already iCalendar feeds from that
00:26 <+perlDreamer> I don't see the point.
00:26 <+perlDreamer> but I'm thick
00:27 <@preaction> perlDreamer: basically thus: you get to access content from a wG site on your own personal site
00:27 <@preaction> so let's say I want to put the plainblack support calendar on my own site, i'd add a <script src="SOME URL"></script> tag to my site, and voila!
00:27 < onioncoder> and if it is fully ajaxified, can be interactive without requiring refresh on the remote site
00:27 <+perlDreamer> you'd do it through iCal
00:28 < onioncoder> ok - now think of publishing interactive content
00:28 <@preaction> wG can't do that now
00:28 <+perlDreamer> a lot of sites generate revenue from ads
00:28 < onioncoder> WSClient
00:28 <+perlDreamer> this would allow access to the content bypassing the ads
00:28 < onioncoder> k- you guys are bogged down on why, not how
00:28 <@preaction> why is the most important question?
00:29 <@preaction> what's the end result that you can't get currently?
00:29 <@preaction> for the CS you can get RSS feeds and format them, RSS is XML so there are javascript parsers.
00:29 < onioncoder> a) I have internal APIs I can expose as SOAP, REST, etc etc
00:29 <@preaction> for the Calendar you can get iCalendar feeds, and i'm sure there must be a Javascript parser for vCal/iCal/vCard
00:30 < onioncoder> b) most end users arent' sophisticated ehough to code for that
00:30 < onioncoder> c) I can have webgui consume my APIs via WS Client or equivalent
00:30 < onioncoder> d) an enduser can then just copy/paste a generated link for that interactive SOAP driven content
00:31 < onioncoder> I could write my own gadget system
00:31 < onioncoder> but in some ways easier to let WebGUI be a gadget distribution system for me
00:31 < onioncoder> that is the why
00:32 <@preaction> so this doesn't export JSON, it exports javascript source
00:32 <@preaction> hence the <script src=""></script>
00:33 <@preaction> can we assume that people can import and/or use a Javascript library instead?
00:33 < onioncoder> right - it is a javascript container, which then in turn can then do the ajax to get the content -- kind of a bootstrap i guess
00:33 <@preaction> <script src="path/to/downloaded/javascript/library.js">goGetGadget("URL");</script>
00:34 <@preaction> rofl, goGetGadget("COPTER")
00:34 < onioncoder> so once you have done it once for one type of asset, it *should* work with any asset that has a www_ajax method (in a perfect world)
00:34 < onioncoder> lol
00:34 <@preaction> like the RSSCapable asset base class
00:35 < onioncoder> does it still seem as bad?
00:35 <@preaction> so currently we have two needs: One: Assets have an AJAX interface for some features. Two: Some way to make that AJAX interface easy for lusers
00:35 <+perlDreamer> we can't solve two because that's the user's site
00:35 <+perlDreamer> each site would have to have their own click and drag interface for widgets
00:36 <+perlDreamer> drupal, livejournal, plone, etc.
00:36 <+perlDreamer> even wG
00:36 <@preaction> well, i think that if we make it as easy as copy/paste the above source, the <script> thing, that's easy enough
00:37 <@preaction> then provide options to change (for example) formattings and the like
00:37 < onioncoder> usage example: a charity has a website in wG, they have donors who want to promote the charity on their personal homepage, they could just have a link, yes.  but this could let them drop in a donation "gadget" on any html webpage 
00:37 <@preaction> but if we use semantic output and a way to specify the <div id="">, then they can use CSS and descendant selectors to change style
00:38 <@preaction> the "gadget" being, say, a DataForm? or a Product? or something?
00:38 < onioncoder> WS Client or equivalent for example
00:39 <@preaction> i personally find the WSClient evil sorcery
00:39 <@preaction> bewitched!
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00:50 <@preaction> can I get some opinions: I think I can eliminate a lot of problems for the Calendar by forcing that an event's recurrence starts on the exact same day the event itself starts on
00:50 <@preaction> some problems are just the user did not update the Recurrence Range Start date
00:51 <@preaction> to be honest, it doesn't do what I personally expect when I make an event the recurs, I expect it to start when the event itself starts, and have the end be specified by me
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01:02 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I've been through this from top to bottom.  The concept of adding a new column.
01:02 <+perlDreamer> the booger is user templates
01:02 <+perlDreamer> the changed system would allow the user to see both the rating of the thread post and the accumulated rating of the entire thread of posts.
01:03 < castironhike19> i'm upgrading to 7.3.8 from 6.6.5 and i'm comparing our templates to an "out of the box" WG site, and i need help with adding the js tags to the templates
01:03 <+perlDreamer> we can change the default templates to cover this but users would have to update their own custom templates.
01:04 <@rizen> pd this shouldn't affect templates unless people want it to
01:04 <@rizen> here's why
01:04 < castironhike19> on the out of the box setup, i found 3 js tags, and i was hoping i could get some help with which should be included in all templates, and which is just enabling features for the default WG v7 page
01:04 <@rizen> in the thread template, we want to display the rating for the thread post, not thread cumulative
01:04 <+perlDreamer> oh
01:04 <+perlDreamer> oh!
01:04 <@rizen> in the colloboration main template we want to display the thread cum, not the other one
01:04 <@rizen> so the only thing that needs to change
01:04 <@rizen> is in collaboration main view
01:05 <@rizen> change which variable is populating the template
01:05 < gooeybot> rizen: that doesn't look right
01:05 <+perlDreamer> you're a genius
01:05 <+perlDreamer> I'm a'coding
01:05 <@rizen> only on alternate wednesdays
01:05 <@rizen> most of the time i'm a moron
01:06 <+perlDreamer> It's just the cold
01:06 <+perlDreamer> castironhike19: which variables are you talking about?  The IRC group is small.  You may have more success posting this to the PB discussion boards.
01:07 < castironhike19> i haven't been able to find too much on there so far, and the upgrade notes that have been helpful are few and far between
01:09 < castironhike19> but i'll post the question there
01:09 <+perlDreamer> which vars are you talking about?
01:09 < castironhike19> mostly i'm trying to figure out how to get it to access the new js lib
01:10 <+perlDreamer> I don't think you need to do anything to your templates to do that
01:10 <+perlDreamer> it should be handled by the HTTP headers
01:10 <+perlDreamer> and for the most part, they're set up automatically
01:10 < castironhike19> so, on our old templates, there was a js lib tag at the top of all the templates, which was <script src="/js-lib/global.js" type="text/javascript" language="javascript"></script>
01:10 < castironhike19> oh, ok
01:11 <+perlDreamer> Here's how to get answers on the boards
01:11 <+perlDreamer> be very, very specific
01:11 <+perlDreamer> provide links for examples
01:11 <+perlDreamer> which template, what problems you're seeing
01:11 <+perlDreamer> and be patient
01:12 < castironhike19> hehe
01:12 < castironhike19> i've learned that much, for sure
01:12 <+perlDreamer> some people follow-up their own posts a few days later bad mouthing the community because there's no answer
01:12 < castironhike19> no no, none of that
01:12 <+perlDreamer> if after a few days you don't get an answer, then try to find PedersenMJ on IRC.  He's our new resident style/template expert.
01:12 <+perlDreamer> community wise
01:13 < castironhike19> great. thanks for the tips!
01:13 <+perlDreamer> and if you're still stuck or in a rush, contact Plain Black and ask for a support contract or documentation
01:13 < castironhike19> right on
01:13 <+perlDreamer> this announcement brought to you by Plain Black, makers of WebGUI :)
01:13 < castironhike19> haha
01:14 < cap10morgan> i'm actually wondering the same thing. is there a standard js include like the old global.js in version 7.x.x? sorry, that wasn't clear to me in your conversation.
01:15 <+perlDreamer> yes, but I'm almost positive that it's added in the HTTP headers now
01:15 < cap10morgan> perlDreamer: ok, thanks.
01:15 <+perlDreamer> so you only have to add site specific JS libs in the templates
01:15 < cap10morgan> cool
01:17 <+perlDreamer> rizen: as part of the upgrade should the upgrade script go through ALL threads and posts and fix them?
01:19 <@rizen> absolutely
01:19 <@rizen> it wouldn't be fixed if it didn't
01:27 <@preaction> rofl, i didn't pass the assetId to the form when editing an event... how does it even work once?
01:28 <@rizen> you shouldn't need to
01:28 <@rizen> you're editing off the url
01:28 <@rizen> so it knows what assetid is by that
01:28 <@preaction> right, but when you submit that form you need an assetId
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01:28 <@rizen> i'll take your word for it
01:29 <@preaction> oh, i see
01:29 <@preaction> you're right
01:29 <@preaction> then... crap, more digging
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01:46 <+perlDreamer> anyone care to write me an getLineage command to fetch all threads?
01:46 <+perlDreamer> and return objects?
01:50 <+MrHairgrease> sure
01:50 <+MrHairgrease> gimme a moment
01:54 <+MrHairgrease> $cs->getLineage(['descendants'], {endingLineageLength => $cs->getLineageLength + 1, returnObjects => 1});
01:55 <+MrHairgrease> something like that
01:55 <@preaction> if $object->can("method"); and I try to run $object->method(), is there any special reasons why the method would not run?
01:55 <+perlDreamer> and if I wanted _all_ threads I could change the $cs to $root
01:55 <+perlDreamer> preaction: args?
01:55 <@preaction> perlDreamer: none
01:55 <@preaction> perlDreamer: the first line of that method i changed to a warning, and that warning never gets printed
01:56 <+MrHairgrease> yes
01:56 <+MrHairgrease> and ditch the endingLineageLength
01:56 <+perlDreamer> preaction: are you sure the invoker is also called?
01:56 <+MrHairgrease> and add 
01:56 <@preaction> perlDreamer: i would find it better to do, for that, $root->getLineage(["descendants"],{ includeOnlyClasses => ["WebGUI::Asset::Post::Thread"] });
01:56 <+MrHairgrease> includeOnlyClasses => ['WebGUI::Asset::Post::Thread']
01:57 <+perlDreamer> MrHairGrease: many, many thanks
01:57 <+MrHairgrease> np
01:57 <@preaction> perlDreamer: i've got a bunch of warnings around the call and they get called just fine
01:57 <+perlDreamer> just weird
01:57 <@preaction> imma restart and see
01:57 <@preaction> mod_perl can be a cruel mistress sometimes
01:58 <@preaction> nope
01:58 <@preaction> this is keeping Events that have recurrence from updating the related Events
01:59 <@preaction> there are a slew of "Pending" version tags that requestAutoCommit is not getting called to commit
02:03 <@preaction> okay, it is getting called it's just not DOING IT
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02:21 <@preaction> ha! it's because addRevision doesn't modify the current asset in-place, but returns the new asset
02:22 <@preaction> i updated the docs accordingly
02:29 <@rizen> perlDreamer, you still here?
02:29 <+perlDreamer> I'm here
02:29 <+perlDreamer> for a bit more
02:30 <+perlDreamer> whazzup?
02:30 <@rizen> i'm working on a weird bug (no report for it just keep hearing about it) and need some input
02:30 <@rizen> the bug is that if there's a bunch of errors in spectre workflows
02:30 <@rizen> that no legit workflows run
02:30 <@rizen> because spectre is so busy dealing with the borked ones
02:30 <@rizen> until they time out
02:31 <+MrHairgrease> I've seen such a pileup once or twice
02:31 <@rizen> so basically if you get something borked (let's say on a multisite server, someone creates some bad workflows)
02:31 <+MrHairgrease> just restarted spectre
02:31 <@rizen> then the whole show stops for a while 
02:31 <@rizen> my thought on how to clear this is to implement a new queuing scheme
02:32 <@rizen> we have priority 1, 2, and 3
02:32 <@rizen> but let's assume we can have as many queues as we want
02:32 <@rizen> so that 1 2 and 3 turn into 
02:32 <@rizen> 10 20 and 30
02:33 <@rizen> then every time a workflow is run
02:33 <@rizen> it gets put down 1 level in the que
02:33 <@rizen> queue
02:33 <@rizen> to 11
02:33 <@rizen> and then to 12
02:33 <@rizen> assuming it was priority 1 to begin with
02:33 <@rizen> so if it runs 10 times, then it will be at 20
02:33 <@rizen> which is where priority 2 stuff starts
02:34 <@rizen> basically, if something priority 1 runs long enough
02:34 <@rizen> it will be at the bottom of the stack with all the crap
02:34 <@rizen> because if it is running that long...it should be put dead last anyway
02:34 <@rizen> what this solves is that everything then gets a turn to run
02:34 <@rizen> without gumming up the system
02:34 <@rizen> how i do it now is
02:34 <@rizen> if something errors
02:34 <@rizen> it's taken out of the queue for 60 seconds
02:35 <@rizen> and then returned back to whatever queue it was already in (1,2,3
02:35 <@rizen> so if you have a lot of those
02:35 <@rizen> and they're all erroring out in queue 1
02:35 <@rizen> then queues 2 and 3 will never have a chance to run
02:35 <@rizen> ever
02:35 <@rizen> because it may take longer than 60 seconds
02:35 <@rizen> to cycle through all the bad crap
02:35 <@preaction> does it only get downgraded if it errors?
02:36 <+perlDreamer> yeah, can we make a distinction between requeue due to time out vs erroring out?
02:36 <@rizen> i'm thinking it gets downgraded no matter what
02:36 <+perlDreamer> if you error out, longer timeout before requeue
02:36 <@rizen> a 50 step workflow
02:36 <@rizen> would run 51 times
02:36 <@rizen> so if it started at 10
02:36 <@rizen> it would be at 61 when it completes
02:36 <@rizen> assuming it completed on the first attempt
02:36 <@rizen> for each activity
02:37 <@rizen> we could do a longer timeout
02:37 <@rizen> but that still doesn't scale much better
02:37 <@rizen> it might work for one environment
02:37 <@rizen> but not for all
02:37 <@rizen> we need to come up with a way to make sure that everything gets a chance
02:37 <@preaction> perhaps high priority don't go down so fast? 1 level for HP, 2 for Medium, 3 for Low, so long, high-priority workflows still get preferred in the long run?
02:37 <@rizen> yo tun
02:37 <@rizen> to run
02:38 <@rizen> keep in mind that high priority workflows will still have 10 high priority executions
02:38 <@rizen> before they get mixed in with the cruft
02:38 <@rizen> that's way more than they should need to complete
02:38 <@preaction> ok
02:39 <@rizen> most workflows complete within 3-5 executions
02:39 <@rizen> in fact, commit without approval completes in 1 execution almost every time (unless there's an error)
02:40 <@rizen> anyway..does anybody see any problems with doing this sort of a filter
02:40 <@rizen> rather than the 3 queues method we do now
02:40 <+perlDreamer> can we add some profiling to monitor queue health?
02:41 <@rizen> explain
02:41 <+perlDreamer> brb
02:41 <@preaction> the only problem i see, you've brought up: a very very long workflow will be relegated (Eventually) to the bottom of the barrel
02:42 <@rizen> yeah...and i'm not sure that's a problem
02:42 <@rizen> since a very very long workflow needs to give up some of it's time so that other things can run
02:42 <@rizen> that's the whole idea of time sharing
02:43 <@preaction> right, but it's giving up both time and priority, "I need time, but I'll wait, and I'll also pretend to need time less than I did last time"
02:43 <+perlDreamer> so in profiling, we would keep track of how deep a workflow goes before it leaves the queue, either by completing or falling off the end
02:43 <+perlDreamer> this gives us a way of identifying queue depth and troublesome workflows
02:44 <+perlDreamer> i.e. if Workflow A NEVER executes, now we have something concrete to go look at
02:44 <@rizen> preaction: sorry, time = 1 execution, not regular time
02:44 <+perlDreamer> instead of saying: reset spectre and call me in the morning
02:44 <@preaction> so not the 60 second limit thing?
02:44 <@rizen> right, there will not be a timeout anymore
02:45 <@rizen> pd: to you
02:45 <@rizen> there are a few things
02:45 <@preaction> oh, then i don't have an issue
02:45 <@rizen> i have planned
02:45 <@rizen> 1) you'll be able to run a command line 
02:45 <@rizen> perl spectre.pl --status
02:46 <@rizen> which will tell you how many workflows there are waiting and their priorities
02:46 <@rizen> 2) you'll also be able to do some ps  functions
02:46 <@rizen> like top
02:46 <@rizen> kill
02:46 <@rizen> that sort of thing
02:46 <@rizen> 3) the status information will be available through the admin console (from web browser)
02:47 <@rizen> though the other things will not, for security reasons
02:47 <@rizen> 4) you can already see what workflows are running and their status, and what version tags are pending
02:47 <@rizen> 5) the workflow status screen will be updated to include more information
02:47 <@rizen> sorry, the "running workflows" screen
02:48 <@preaction> perlDreamer: we're still on for the calendar docs tonight? i'm gonna grab some food so I'll bbl
02:48 <+perlDreamer> preaction: yes 7:30pm PST
02:48 <@rizen> i plan on doing all these things as part of 7.3 bug fixing, because we're seeing a lot of spectre problems
02:48 <@rizen> and we need better tools to troubleshoot with
02:48 <@rizen> so, given that list
02:48 <@rizen> does that cover what you were looking for?
02:48 <+perlDreamer> Almost all of it, yes
02:49 <+perlDreamer> I still think a history would be good
02:49 <+perlDreamer> 1-5 cover what's happening now
02:49 <+perlDreamer> but not what has happened
02:49 <@rizen> spectre is doing all this stuff in memory
02:49 <@rizen> and doesn't communicate with the db
02:49 <@rizen> so therefore keeping history like that
02:49 <@rizen> would be a memory leak
02:50 <+perlDreamer> yes.
02:50 <@rizen> i suppose we could add a special debug runtime flag that would keep the history
02:51 <+perlDreamer> it could go in the WebGUI logfile as well.
02:51 <@rizen> that way you could have it when you're troubleshooting
02:51 <+perlDreamer> it would just need to be postprocessed
02:51 <@rizen> and turn it off later
02:51 <+perlDreamer> yes
02:51 <+perlDreamer> it's just a debug feature
02:51 <+perlDreamer> not a runtime
02:51 <@rizen> ok
02:51 <@rizen> i'll see what i can do on that front
02:51 <@rizen> back to my queuing problem
02:51 <@rizen> do you see any problems with that?
02:51 <@rizen> my new solution?
02:52 <+perlDreamer> not off the top of my head
02:52 <+perlDreamer> so long as things fall off the end, it should never get stuck
02:52 <+perlDreamer> although bad workflows may interrupt lower priority workflows
02:52 <+perlDreamer> if junk is at 15, and I insert at 20, it may not get run for a while until the 15 flows past me
02:52 <@rizen> it never will get stuck, but going back to your historical thing
02:53 <@rizen> it will be interesting if you run --status
02:53 <+perlDreamer> via cron
02:53 <@rizen> and see that there is a workflow that's been executing 100937 times
02:53 <+perlDreamer> wait, I thought it would only execute 50 times?
02:53 <+perlDreamer> is 51 death? or bottom out?
02:53 <@rizen> no, it will keep executing until it completes
02:53 <@rizen> no bottom out
02:54 <+perlDreamer> well, in that case, there's our historical data right there
02:54 <+perlDreamer> everything in 50 is problematic
02:54 <@rizen> historical for anything that's still running
02:54 <@rizen> it won't show any historical data for things that have completed
02:54 <+perlDreamer> right, and that's fine
02:54 <@rizen> oh
02:54 <@rizen> well in that case
02:54 <+perlDreamer> we can always identify big workflows by using our heads
02:54 <@rizen> we're good
02:55 <+perlDreamer> email lists, post/thread archives
02:55 <+perlDreamer> these are potentially big workflows
02:55 <+perlDreamer> we can deal with them individually
02:55 <@rizen> cache deletes are the biggest
02:55 <@rizen> big caches can take a long time to run
02:55 <@rizen> for cleanup
02:55 <+perlDreamer> what about cache populates for RSS and iCal?
02:56 <@rizen> huh?
02:56 <+perlDreamer> there is an RSS populate workflow
02:56 <+perlDreamer> I figured there'd be one for iCal as well
02:56 <@rizen> oh right
02:56 <@rizen> those aren't all that long
02:56 <@rizen> unless there are connectivity problems
02:56 <@rizen> they usually complete in 1 execution
02:56 <+perlDreamer> okay
02:57 <@rizen> ok...must get dinner now
02:57 <+perlDreamer> so the long part is identifying which cache entries have expired
02:57 <@rizen> yes
02:57 <+perlDreamer> okay.  see ya!
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02:57 <@rizen> which won't be as big of a deal if i can complete my goal of getting rid of FS cache at some point
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04:35 <@preaction> woohoo, first time i've had an alcoholic beverage in 8 months, and now i'm going bughunting!
04:35  * preaction maintains professional composure in a public forum
04:44 < Radix-wrk> lol
04:45 < Radix-wrk> What alcoholic beverage though?
04:45 <@preaction> brandy old-fashioned sour
04:45 <@preaction> my new favorite, followed closely by white russians and vodka martinis
04:48 <@preaction> crap, i just realized that our additions to the WebGUI::DateTime interface are somewhat ambiguous, because of WebGUI's ability to allow users to specify their own date/time formats...
04:49 < Radix-wrk> I had fun with Webtender.com's "In My Bar" for New years myself.. got a nice collection of liquers and spirits for the occasion (all rather cheap thanks to a friend who works at a bottle shop), and we tried lots of concoctions that night :)
04:49 <+crythias> "Thank you for the completely inadequate wedding gift."
04:49 <+crythias> http://www.cafepress.com/bridezilla.7451373
04:50 < Radix-wrk> heh
04:50 <@preaction> ha ha, that's clever
04:54 < Radix-wrk> So how goes the bughunt?
04:55 <@preaction> ugly... deep-rooted calendar bugs
04:55 < Radix-wrk> :(
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05:04 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. just had our website disappear in a bunch of workflow errors - now getting '502 Bad Gateway' messages..
05:05 <@preaction> bad gateway means modperl is down
05:05 < Radix-wrk> just clearing the webguicache and when that's done will do a full restart
05:05 <@preaction> sounds a goodly idea
05:06 < Radix-wrk> 2007/02/01 09:54:53 - ERROR - webgui.formsys.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - Caught
05:06 < Radix-wrk>  exception executing workflow activity pbwfactivity0000000006 for instance 2ZdKB
05:06 < Radix-wrk> 38_LmaEf0cGSRtLKA which reported Can't call method "get" on an undefined value a
05:06 < Radix-wrk> t /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm line 276.
05:06 <@preaction> JT was just discussing in here a way to (imho) fix specture entirely
05:06 <@preaction> by changing the way it prioritizes and runs workflows
05:06 <@preaction> which iirc he'll be adding to the 7.3.* bugfixes
05:07 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, the spectre stuff still doesn't seem 100% yet
05:07 <@preaction> and if i make this verdamnt calendar USABLE we can get on to 7.4 soon
05:07 < Radix-wrk> cool
05:08 <@preaction> basically thus: workflows will lose priority as they keep running, so workflows that cause a lot of errors will eventually be delegated to the very bottom of the barrel, and thus not clog up the works
05:13 < Radix-wrk> the reason they're failing needs to be sorted out too though - not just dismiss them surely.
05:13 <@preaction> of course, you'll be able to see what workflows have been running forever
05:13 <@preaction> and then figure out why
05:14 < Radix-wrk> these failures are all due to code in formatContent that seems to do no error checking - it's doing a $self->getThread->getParent->get("filterCode"));
05:15 <@preaction> yeah, it shouldn't do that, but also those should not be failing
05:15 <@preaction> it means you have a corrupt Post
05:15 <@preaction> or Thread
05:15 <@preaction> what line is that?
05:15 < Radix-wrk> 276
05:15 <@preaction> i can add some warnings that will help track those corruptions down
05:15 < Radix-wrk> I'm using 7.0.8 still tho
05:16 < Radix-wrk> so may have been fixed in more recent versions
05:16 <@preaction> i don't htink we changed it in recent ones, but i'll check
05:16 < Radix-wrk> I think there are some issues with collaboration systems having posts made before they're version tag is committed
05:16 <@preaction> oh, right
05:17 <@preaction> yes, now CS forces committing before any Posts can be added
05:18 < Radix-wrk> don't know why the whole site would've died because of that tho
05:18 < Radix-wrk> clean of cache and restart fixed it
05:18 <@preaction> weirdness
05:19 < Radix-wrk> Oh well.. I'll keep waiting for 7.4 :)
05:22 <@preaction> it's 7.3.9 or 7.3.10 you should be waiting for
05:22 <@preaction> the last 7.3 release will have a clean bug list
05:23 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, but we can't do password recovery with this new method of using profile fields - got over 4500 users and none of them have any profile fields we could use for password recovery
05:23 < Radix-wrk> so gotta wait til 7.4 before the old password recovery method is added back in
05:23 <@preaction> not even an e-mail address?
05:24 < Radix-wrk> sure, but then anyone could take anyone else's account over if he had their email address
05:24 <@preaction> ... it doesn't send the new password to the e-mail address in the profile?
05:24 <@preaction> i'm not sure how the new one works
05:25 < Radix-wrk> me neither really, but the way JT described it was that it was all web based.. no emails sent
05:25 < Radix-wrk> you say you forgot password, enter in one or more profile fields - if they match then you can enter in a new password
05:25 <@preaction> ahh
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05:26 < Radix-wrk> great if you have a new setup - you can add them to the signup info, but not if you have a lot of existing users with no such info
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05:26 <@preaction> right
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05:26 <@preaction> well, pb.com doesn't use the new password recovery method that i know of either
05:26 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. wonder how it's doing it then...
05:27 <@preaction> at least, theres nothing on register that you enter for password recovery purposes
05:28 < Radix-wrk> Ahh.. forgot password is disabled for pb.com atm
05:30 < Radix-wrk> there's no link to it anymore on pb.com, and it doesn't even recognise the ?op=auth;method=recoverPassword stuff either
05:30 < Radix-wrk> hope noone forgets their password! :)
05:31 <@preaction> http://www.dieselsweeties.com/print/strips/ds20070119.png
05:35 < PedersenMJ> g'd evening.
05:35 < Radix-wrk> yo
05:36 < PedersenMJ> How's it going?
05:36 < Radix-wrk> what's it?
05:37 < PedersenMJ> life, the universe, and everything.
05:37 < Radix-wrk> it's still 42
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05:37 < Radix-wrk> the bowl of petunias is okay tho
05:38 < PedersenMJ> Really? I heard that it was still in the whale when the whale tried to become friends with the ground, and didn't do so well when that happened.
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05:42 <@preaction> i heard the bowl of petunias was somehow killed, since it was really Agrajag in one of his incarnations
05:43 < PedersenMJ> Yeah, and he had a bitch of a time getting that onto the statue of Arthur killing him in 50 some odd ways.
05:43 < Radix-wrk> I just want to know why it said "Oh no, not again"
05:43 <+perlDreamer> what in the world are y'all talking about?
05:43 <@preaction> if we knew that, we'd know a lot more about the universe than we currently do
05:43 <+perlDreamer> roger that
05:43 < Radix-wrk> hence why I want to know :)
05:43 < Radix-wrk> perlDreamer, we're talking about 42
05:44 <+perlDreamer> 42
05:45 < PedersenMJ> Well, *I* heard that it said "oh no, not again" because it still hadn't mastered the art of throwing itself at the ground and missing.
05:45 <+perlDreamer> preaction: are you a documentron tonight?
05:46 <@preaction> it can't very well throw itself anywhere, it's a plant!
05:46 <@preaction> perlDreamer: yes'm
05:46 <+perlDreamer> give me a holler when you're ready to start
05:46 < PedersenMJ> Precisely why it was so upset at the current forced attempt!
05:46 <+perlDreamer> in the meantime I'll be cursing myself as 12 kinds of idiot
05:46 <@preaction> perlDreamer: any time, i suppose we start with "Where the hell do I look for to add this stuff?"
05:46 <@rizen> pd: why?
05:47 <+perlDreamer> I left the new prototype upgrade script at $dayJob
05:47 <+perlDreamer> but brought all the Asset changes home
05:47 <+perlDreamer> without all the pieces, I can't finish the debug and test
05:47 <@rizen> and you haven't made yourself a back door into your work network yet
05:47 <@rizen> for shame
05:47 <+perlDreamer> not allowed to
05:47 <@rizen> you're never allowed to
05:47 <+perlDreamer> no access to the firewall
05:47 <@rizen> doesn't mean you don't
05:47 < Radix-wrk> no vpn?  ssh?
05:47 <@rizen> access to the firewall is for pussies
05:48 <@preaction> Randall Schwartz is a felon because of making a backdoor like that :p
05:48 < Radix-wrk> ssh tunnels ftw
05:48 <+perlDreamer> preaction:  The docs are in two pieces: i18n is in i18n/English/Asset_*
05:48 <+perlDreamer> Help is in Help/Asset_*
05:48 <@preaction> ok
05:48 <@rizen> preaction: shhhh. i want pd to go to jail so he can work on webgui full time
05:48 <@preaction> Help is where the template docs are too? i suppose i'll see when I open one up
05:48 <+perlDreamer> have a gander at the Article help for a good example of how to start
05:48 <+perlDreamer> template docs have 4 pieces
05:48 <+perlDreamer> title
05:48 <+perlDreamer> body
05:48 <+perlDreamer> all variables
05:49 <+perlDreamer> and then ISA relationships to pull in other template vars from other entries
05:49 <+perlDreamer> oh, and have JT tell you where to find my documentation presentation from the 2005 WUC.
05:50 <@preaction> i should put Event and Calendar help in different places? even thought the Calendar is where people will probably expect to find Event help?
05:50 <+perlDreamer> yes
05:51 <+perlDreamer> 1 file per Asset
05:51 <+perlDreamer> both i18n and Help
05:51 <@preaction> just like i18n, k
05:51 <+perlDreamer> Even the Wiki is done that way
05:51 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to try a VPN connection into work, I may drop out for a bit
05:52 <@preaction> k
05:56 <@preaction> perlDreamer: this huge datastructure is kind of ugly, is there a specific reason it's all done as one big one and not broken up into multiple statements?
05:57 < PedersenMJ> Hey, Radix, to return the favor for firebug last night, here's a mostly equivalent tool for IE: http://www.ieinspector.com/
05:57 <+perlDreamer> I'm in!
05:57 <+perlDreamer> which huge ugly datastructure are we talking about?
05:57 <@preaction> the Help one
05:57 <+perlDreamer> How would you break it up?
05:58 <@preaction> $HELP->{"calendar add/edit"} = $calendarAddEditPage; $calendarAddEditPage->{fields} = []; ->{related} = []; etc...
05:58 <@preaction> basically build the hash for a page, and then add it to the main hash
05:58 <+perlDreamer> It's perl code.  You can do that.
05:58 <+perlDreamer> Have a look inside the Macros.pm Help file
05:59 <+perlDreamer> near "list of macros"
05:59 <@preaction> where it's using subs instead of text?
05:59 <@preaction> hooray anonymous subs ;)
06:02 <+perlDreamer> yeah, site specific listing of your macros
06:02 <+perlDreamer> It's just perl code
06:02 <+perlDreamer> so long as it builds the final data structure and you indent exactly the way as all the other files, knock yourself out.
06:03 <@preaction> well, the indentation will change to adhere to PBP, because they aren't such horribly nested data structures some of the indentation won't be necessary
06:03 <@preaction> i'll do it and see how pretty i can make it, and then if i fail, i'll just run Data::Dumper and take that output ;)
06:04 <+perlDreamer> perltidy will cure all ills
06:05 < PedersenMJ> JT, quick question: I'm putting a link to WDR in the article I'm working on. Is this link (https://www.plainblack.com/services/wdr) likely to change in the near term future?
06:05 < PedersenMJ> Some of the discussions on the forums seemed to indicate it might.
06:05 <@rizen> shouldn't
06:05 < PedersenMJ> Okay. Just wanted to make sure. Thank you.
06:05 <@rizen> at least not until april/may
06:08 < PedersenMJ> Well, that means this article should be visible without change for at least two months, so that's all I can ask for.
06:08 <@rizen> i'm not saying it will change then, just that it's safe until then
06:09 <@rizen> it will likely stay there for a year 
06:10 < PedersenMJ> Which is even better. Heck, having a stable link for a week is sometimes a miracle on the web.
06:17 <@preaction> ok, so "fields" are URL parameters, and "variables" are template variables
06:18 < PedersenMJ> BTW, I'd like to thank whomever integrated the mce editor. It might seem silly to say this, but having it remember the size of the textbox from one edit to another is a very nice usability feature. I appreciate it.
06:19 <+perlDreamer> fields are form parameters with hoverHelp
06:19 <+perlDreamer> does anyone have a website that they'd like to sacrifice/donate for the testing of my new upgrade script?
06:20 <@preaction> perlDreamer: so normal URL parameters are not documented? ones w/o hoverHelp? like as in a Search form?
06:21 < PedersenMJ> pd: How soon do you need it? I could make one tomorrow for it.
06:22 <+perlDreamer> PedersenMJ: it needs to have an extensive collaboration system
06:22 <@preaction> perlDreamer: is it committed? i can do it
06:22 <@preaction> oh
06:22 <+perlDreamer> It's not committed yet.
06:22 <@preaction> i can pull a dump of pb.com and we can test it on that
06:22 <+perlDreamer> preaction: hidden URL params would not be documented, only user interface level stuff
06:23 <+perlDreamer> unless they were template variables required for a template Event form to work, for example
06:23 <@preaction> so a search form, those would be
06:23 <@preaction> and the hidden "recurId" field on the Event form would be
06:23 <+perlDreamer> only because it would be a template variable required to build the form
06:23 <@preaction> right
06:24 <+perlDreamer> check out the Post Help.  The edit interface is documented as a template, not as a form.
06:24 <@preaction> but like when documenting the search page, would i not say "these fields are required and this is what they do to the search results returned?"
06:24 <@preaction> i can't do both?
06:24 <+perlDreamer> if your form is templated, do them all
06:24 <@preaction> well, admittedly, the form is built using template vars
06:25 <+perlDreamer> there you go
06:25 <+perlDreamer> this is a template
06:25 <@preaction> should i just make a remark about "passing in the 'start=' parameter on the first visit to this page will set the "startDate" field
06:26 <+perlDreamer> not unless the user can do it via a UI element
06:27 <+perlDreamer> the 7.3.9 changlog entry is reminiscent of the 6.x series
06:27 <+perlDreamer> it's huge!
06:27 <@preaction> no, the user themselves can't, the idea is that template designers should
06:28 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I'm committing the Post rating work
06:28 <+perlDreamer> beware
06:28 <@rizen> cool
06:28 <@rizen> pd: remember the form/profile stuff?
06:29  * perlDreamer quavers
06:29 <+perlDreamer> I wasn't going to mention that
06:30 <+perlDreamer> how many other volunteers have the distinction of completely messing up almost all aspects of WebGUI?
06:30 <@preaction> i built an upgrade that trashed data?
06:30 <+perlDreamer> no
06:30 <+perlDreamer> well, you're paid to do that
06:30 <+perlDreamer> :)
06:30 <+perlDreamer> I did it pro bono
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06:32 <@preaction> i'm sorry
06:32 <@rizen> i think you're the only one pd
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06:32 <@rizen> but that's just one of the many reasons we love you
06:32 <+perlDreamer> I break stuff
06:32 <+perlDreamer> I test stuff
06:32 <+perlDreamer> I document stuff
06:32 <+perlDreamer> not necessarily in that order
06:32 <@preaction> i won't mention that everyone who's had their hand in the Calendar has caused a bug ;)
06:33 <@preaction> damn roy and his needs
06:33  * preaction resolves to write better code so it's not so easy to break stuff
06:34 <@preaction> lemme pastebin my "cleaner" help code
06:34 <+perlDreamer> well, having done the rating stuff, I'll have a look at Susan's reply stuff next
06:35 < PedersenMJ> Sorry for the idle. Wish I could have helped pd.
06:35 <+perlDreamer> I always appreciate the offer to help
06:36 <@preaction> http://rafb.net/p/LWzTeM69.html <- comments?
06:37 <@preaction> i'm not liking the push statements so much anymore
06:37 <+perlDreamer> here's the defining test
06:37 <+perlDreamer> what shell do you use, preaction?
06:37 <@preaction> bash
06:37 <+perlDreamer> do you have a valid WebGUI.conf sitting around?
06:37 <@preaction> indeed
06:37 <+perlDreamer> export WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/myConf.conf
06:38 <+perlDreamer> cd /data/WebGUI/t
06:38 <+perlDreamer> prove i18n/ Help/
06:38 <+perlDreamer> if that passes, you're golden
06:38 <@preaction> but code format-wise, is it readable?
06:38 <+perlDreamer> I'm so used to the big datastructure that the disambiguation is a little vague for me
06:39 <@preaction> could probably use more comments
06:41 <@preaction> tests pass, should I set CODE_COP?
06:42 <+perlDreamer> no
06:42 <+perlDreamer> CODE_COP implements my code scanning tests for i18n and setHelp
06:42 <+perlDreamer> it's a mini PPI
06:42 <+perlDreamer> very slow
06:42 <+perlDreamer> I should inline both scans in one and then write out data to be used for both tests
06:43 <@preaction> at any rate, they passed
06:43 <+perlDreamer> then it's good Help
06:43 <+perlDreamer> regardless of format
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06:45 <+perlDreamer> preaction:  can you take a look at this for a sec?
06:45 <+perlDreamer> http://rafb.net/p/LWzTeM69.html
06:45 <+perlDreamer> uh, no
06:45 <@preaction> i remember that!
06:45 <+perlDreamer> $self->get("dateSubmitted") eq $self->get("dateUpdated")
06:45 <@preaction> looks like clean code
06:45 <+perlDreamer> that one
06:45 <+perlDreamer> I have tests that fail due to that all the time
06:45 <@preaction> what Asset is that?
06:46 <+perlDreamer> Post
06:46 <+perlDreamer> Think about it this way instead
06:46 <@preaction> they're epoch times no?
06:46 <+perlDreamer> $self->get("dateSubmitted") - $self->get("dateUpdated")
06:46 <+perlDreamer> epoch times
06:46 <+perlDreamer> yes
06:47 <+perlDreamer> If that difference > 0, that does it mean?
06:47 <@preaction> what's the failure reasing?
06:47 <@preaction> it means that it's been updated since it was submitted
06:47 <@preaction> OR that the last time it was "updated" by something is after it was submitted
06:47 <+perlDreamer> not always
06:48 <@preaction> why not?
06:48 <+perlDreamer> what if it was submitted at 0.99999999999999999999999 seconds but updated at 1.00000000000000000001 seconds
06:48 <+perlDreamer> epoch times are integer seconds
06:48 <@preaction> so they can be equal
06:48 <+perlDreamer> but they can also be non-equal, and valid
06:49 <@preaction> as long as dateUpdated is greater than or equal to dateSubmitted, it should be valid
06:49 <+perlDreamer> what about editing posts?
06:50 <@preaction> that should update the dateUpdated field, not the dateSubmitted field (imho)
06:50 <@preaction> but isn't that already in assetData as "lastUpdated"?
06:50 <@preaction> same with dateSubmitted, isn't that in asset as "creationDate"?
06:51 <@preaction> i mean, if these fields do what they sound like they do
06:51 <+perlDreamer> need to ask TMRFE
06:51 <+perlDreamer> rizen: Thy presence is humbly requested
06:52  * perlDreamer mouths the arcane lingo
06:52 <@preaction> shh. it's 11:00p
06:52 <@rizen> yes sirs
06:52 <@rizen> is the question what's the difference between dateSubmitted and dateUpdated?
06:52 <+perlDreamer> In a Post, how are dateUpdated and dateSubmitted different from creationDate and lastUpdated?
06:52 <@rizen> ah
06:53 <@rizen> let's take dateUpdated and lastUpdated cuz it's eaiser
06:53 <@rizen> easier
06:53 <+perlDreamer> k
06:53 <@rizen> dateUpdated is the time when the poster last did something to the post
06:54 <@rizen> where lastUpdated is the time the post was last modified
06:54 <@rizen> which could be by the system
06:54 <@rizen> via workflows
06:54 <@rizen> or any other asset access
06:54 <+perlDreamer> they're when user level actions took place
06:54 <+perlDreamer> I see
06:54 <@rizen> yes
06:55 <+perlDreamer> I went looking for another bug to fix
06:55 <@rizen> dateSubmitted is the same for creation
06:55 <+perlDreamer> and I found one where replies are not being counted
06:55 <@rizen> however, currently in the system, there is no difference between the two
06:55 <@rizen> dateSubmitted and creationDate
06:55 <@rizen> i mean
06:55 <+perlDreamer> I think it's due to this: return $self->get("dateSubmitted") eq $self->get("dateUpdated");
06:56 <+perlDreamer> it reminds me of the failing tests due to truncated integer epoch times
06:56 <@rizen> oooh, you should never rely on that
06:56 <@rizen> or whoever write it
06:56 <@rizen> wrote it
06:56 <@rizen> which is probably me
06:56 <+perlDreamer> I'm thinking a better way may be to count revisions?
06:57 <+perlDreamer> but they may be system level changes
06:57 <@rizen> counting revisions isn't good either
06:57 <@rizen> because revisions can be deleted from the system
06:57 <@rizen> during slough
06:57 <@rizen> what is this check used for?
06:57 <+perlDreamer> incrementing replies
06:58 <@rizen> why does that have anything to do with replies?
06:58 <+perlDreamer> sub commit in Post
06:58 <+perlDreamer> notifies subscribers
06:58 <+perlDreamer> and karma check and increment replies if new
06:58 < gooeybot> check and increment replies if new has neutral karma
06:59 <@rizen> i'm not seeing that in commit()
06:59 <@rizen> are you sure it's not another method?
06:59 <+perlDreamer> line 142 of Asset/Post.pm
06:59 <@rizen> i know where the commit method is
06:59 <@rizen> i'm saying i don't see that check
07:00 <@rizen> there's no comparison of dateSubmitted to dateUpdated in Post::commit()
07:00 <+perlDreamer> if ($self->isNew) -> quantifies the karma and incrementReplies
07:00 <+perlDreamer> isNew does that check
07:00 <@rizen> oh, isNew...
07:00 <@rizen> why didn't you tell me that
07:00 <+perlDreamer> I'm old
07:00 < PedersenMJ> g'night all. it's early, but I've been needing more sleep lately. See y'all manana!
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07:01 <+perlDreamer> actually, we can test this directly.
07:01 <+perlDreamer> can you do a query on PB.com?
07:02 <+perlDreamer> this thread has 1 reply, but no counted replies
07:02 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support/wiki-weirdness-and-browser-crash#UIXGb0g5I7SEUcGESmaj6w
07:02 <@rizen> i think a better check would be this
07:02 <+perlDreamer> if the dateUpdated and dateSubmitted are different, then that's definitely the problem
07:02 <@rizen> $self->get("status") ne "approved" && $self->getTagCount == 1
07:03 <@rizen> strike that
07:03 <@rizen> this would be better
07:03 <@rizen> $self->get("status") eq "pending" && $self->getTagCount == 1
07:04 <+perlDreamer> if we edit a post is the status set back to pending?
07:04 <@preaction> a revision is added, so tagCount is greater than one
07:05 <@rizen> mysql> select dateSubmitted,dateUpdated from Post where assetId='UIXGb0g5I7SEUcGESmaj6w';
07:05 <@rizen> +---------------+-------------+
07:05 <@preaction> but i don't think that will work, isNew is only ever called after $self->SUPER::commit, so wouldn't "status" be approved?
07:05 <@rizen> | dateSubmitted | dateUpdated |
07:05 <@rizen> +---------------+-------------+
07:05 <@rizen> |    1170202886 |  1170202887 | 
07:05 <@rizen> +---------------+-------------+
07:05 <@rizen> 1 row in set (0.00 sec)
07:05 <+perlDreamer> yup
07:05 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll make the change
07:05 <@rizen> that revision is pending
07:05 <+perlDreamer> it is?
07:05 <@rizen> yes the revision
07:05 < gooeybot> the revision is, like, added, so tagCount is greater than one
07:05 <@rizen> not the old one
07:06 <@rizen> the new revision is pending
07:06 <+perlDreamer> I'll add the new conditional.  Do you also want an upgrade script to fix the replies?
07:07 <@rizen> ok then don't check whether it's pending or not
07:07 <@rizen> just check tag count
07:07 <@preaction> am i lagging?
07:07 <@rizen> i'm lagging in my reading
07:07 <+perlDreamer> there was a system level lag, preaction
07:07 <@preaction> oh, k
07:07 <@rizen> so my responses are lagging
07:07 <@rizen> hmmm. let's think this over
07:08 <@rizen> before you make this change
07:08 <+perlDreamer> oh
07:08 <@rizen> maybe my new solution isn't so hot either
07:08 <+perlDreamer> you always want to be reasonable and careful
07:08 <+perlDreamer> you'll never break code doing that
07:08 <@rizen> the problem with my new solution is if the post gets sent back for edits before posting
07:09 <@rizen> i don't know if that creates a new version tag or reuses the old one
07:09 <@rizen> it should reuse the old one
07:09 <@rizen> but i don't know for sure
07:09 <+perlDreamer> I'll make a post and ask for a preview
07:09 <@rizen> preview won't do anything
07:09 <@rizen> it doesn't actually submit the data
07:10 <@rizen> on your local copy set up the cs to require approval
07:11 <@rizen> then reject your post
07:11 <@rizen> and edit it
07:11 <@rizen> then approve it
07:11 <@rizen> and see how many tags you have
07:15 <+perlDreamer> I can't send emails from my box
07:15 <@rizen> you don't need to
07:15 <@rizen> check your inbox
07:15 <+perlDreamer> it's empty
07:15 <@rizen> from the admin console
07:15 <@rizen> do you have spectre running?
07:16 <+perlDreamer> up and running
07:16 <@rizen> and did you commit your cs before making a post to it so that it knew to run the commit with approval workflow
07:16 <+perlDreamer> no
07:16 <@preaction> how did it allow you to make a post to it?
07:16 <@rizen> cuz it already existed
07:16 < patspam> WebGUI::Form::IntSlider.pm, line 146, calls WebGUI::Form::integer (lowercase) instead of WebGUI::Form::Integer (uppercase)
07:16 <@preaction> oh
07:16 <@rizen> he's just making an edit
07:17 < patspam> giving me errors in my wobject
07:17 <@rizen> patspam: doesn't matter
07:17 < patspam> Couldn't call method doAdd on asset for url: home/portal/p2 Root cause: Can't locate object method "new" via package "WebGUI::Form::integer" (perhaps you forgot to load "WebGUI::Form::integer"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/IntSlider.pm line 146.
07:17 <@rizen> oh, wait, it does matter in that case
07:17 < patspam> heh
07:17 <@rizen> it only doesn't matter in WebGUI::Form
07:17 <@rizen> or WebGUI::HTMLForm
07:17 <@rizen> but calling it directly it does
07:18 <@rizen> i'll make the change in the core
07:18 < patspam> ta
07:18 < patspam> Couldn't call method doAdd on asset for url: home/portal/p2 Root cause: Can't locate object method "new" via package "WebGUI::Form::integer" (perhaps you forgot to load "WebGUI::Form::integer"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/IntSlider.pm line 146.
07:18 < patspam> oops
07:18 < patspam> double-paste
07:18 < patspam> btw I'm not calling WebGUI::Form::integer directly, I'm calling IntSlider
07:19 <@rizen> yeah, but intslider is calling it directly
07:19 <@rizen> rather than going through WebGUI::FOrm
07:19 < patspam> yep :)
07:20 <@rizen> fixed in core
07:23 < patspam> awesome, ta
07:24 <@rizen> what is ta?
07:25 <+perlDreamer> ta, like in ta-ta
07:25 <@preaction> perlbot ta
07:25 <+perlDreamer> how do I check the number of tags?
07:25 < patspam> ha, no, it means thanks
07:25 <@preaction> perlbot doesn't know
07:25 <@preaction> $self->getTagCount
07:25 <@preaction> or select count(*) from assetData where assetId=<your ID>;
07:26 <@rizen> preaction, second way won't work
07:26 <@rizen> without distinct
07:26 <@preaction> ?func=manageRevisions, however many revisions you have?
07:26 <@rizen> and you should always use api
07:26 <@preaction> of course, i was just thinking he was just checking this raw to make sure that $self->getTagsCount will work
07:27 <+perlDreamer> 2
07:27 <@preaction> that's not the right answer :(
07:28 <+perlDreamer> well, we can either change isNew or fix why the dateSubmitted and dateUpdated are different.
07:29 <@preaction> what if there's only one approved version in the database, would that be as good isNew?
07:30 <@preaction> perlDreamer: so basically most times i add something to i18n for an asset, i should add something to Help?
07:31 <+perlDreamer> yes
07:31 <@rizen> hmmm...what other ways can we determine if it isNew
07:31 <+perlDreamer> the funny thing is it should work right
07:32 <+perlDreamer> both dateUpdated and dateSubmitted are updated with the same timestamp
07:32 <+perlDreamer> $now=time();
07:32 <+perlDreamer> $newSelf->update({threadId=>$newSelf->getId, dateSubmitted=>$now});
07:32 <+perlDreamer>     $newSelf->update({
07:32 <+perlDreamer>         isHidden => 1,
07:32 <+perlDreamer>         dateUpdated=>$now,
07:32 <+perlDreamer>         });
07:32 <@rizen> hmm
07:32 <+perlDreamer> yeah
07:33 <@rizen> well then maybe we shuld just fix it, like you said
07:33 <@rizen> and leave isNew alone
07:34 <@rizen> do you know at what point it's getting corrupted?
07:34 <+perlDreamer> no
07:34 <+perlDreamer> I can only see 1 thing that might happen
07:34 <+perlDreamer> but it's bad
07:34 <+perlDreamer> if the compiler optimized away $now and replaced it with time(), then you could get different calls in both places.
07:34 <+perlDreamer> there's no way to fix that
07:35 <+perlDreamer> neither dateUpdated nor dateSubmitted are changed anywhere else that I can find
07:35 <@rizen> holy crap
07:35 <@rizen> that's very bad
07:35 <+perlDreamer> it can't be it
07:36 <@rizen> how else is it off
07:36 <+perlDreamer> what else touches the Post table after addRevision?
07:37 < patspam> hmm setting minimum to anything other than 0 on IntSlider seems to break it, same for HexSlider
07:37 <@rizen> processPropertiesFromPost()
07:37 <@rizen> postProcess()
07:38 <@rizen> patspam, then report a bug
07:38 < patspam> will do
07:38 <@rizen> patspam, also, check out the use of the code in the image stuff
07:38 <@rizen> that's where they're used in webgui
07:38 <@rizen> but i think they start at 9
07:38 <@rizen> 0
07:39 <+perlDreamer> nope and nope
07:40 <@rizen> perlDreamer: that is ignorant and racist
07:40 <+perlDreamer> dateSubmitted and dateUpdated only appear to be written in addRevision
07:40 <+perlDreamer> "nope" is racist?
07:40 <@rizen> yup
07:41 <@rizen> you're clearly trying to keep my people down
07:41 <+perlDreamer> back to the keyboard, codeSlave!
07:42 <@rizen> i don't know man
07:42 <+perlDreamer> Let me try something out.
07:42 <+perlDreamer> I'll pastebin it
07:46 < patspam> fixed it, the javascript fn $slider.setMinimum() at line 325 of Slider.pm doesn't like having its argument quoted
07:46 < patspam> strangely $slider.setMaximum() doesn't care
07:50 <+perlDreamer> rizen: http://rafb.net/p/AmHuwp99.html
07:52 <@rizen> isn't line 3 of modified broken
07:52 <+perlDreamer> better hope not.  I didn't touch that part :)
07:53 <+perlDreamer> If dateUpdated and dateSubmitted are made on the same update, it should use the same time for both.
07:53 <@rizen> it's different
07:53 <@rizen> it's different between the two versions
07:54 <+perlDreamer> lines 3 and 18 are the same
07:54 <@rizen>             $newSelf->update({threadId=>$newSelf->getId, dateSubmitted=>$now}, dateUpdated=>$now);
07:54 <@rizen>             $newSelf->update({threadId=>$newSelf->getId, dateSubmitted=>$now});
07:54 <@rizen> see hhow they are different
07:54 <@rizen> i have them flip flopped
07:54 <@rizen> line 3 of modified
07:54 <@rizen> not line 1
07:54 <@rizen> line 20 on pastebin
07:55 <@rizen> vs line 5
07:55 <@rizen> sorry, didn't even notice that pastebin had numbers
07:55 <+perlDreamer> okay, I see it
07:55 <+perlDreamer> that can be fixed, but the concept should still be good
07:55 <@rizen> refine it even further
07:55 <@rizen> get rid of all the updates
07:55 <@rizen> just create variables
07:56 <@rizen> and do 1 update at the end
07:56 <@rizen> or a hashref
07:56 < gooeybot> a hashref is, like, slick
07:56 <+perlDreamer> okay
07:57 <@rizen> your idea will work if the optimization theory is correct
07:57 <+perlDreamer> if it's correct, I'll be scared
07:57 <@rizen> the shitty part is there's no real way to test that theory
07:57 <+perlDreamer> it takes time.  If we don't have any more funky reply posts then it's fixed
07:58 <@rizen> i hate those kinds of fixes
07:58 <+perlDreamer> I'll work on this.  Let's sit on it overnight and think about it.
07:59 <+perlDreamer> Tomorrow morning we'll be frustrated with doing support and much more likely to understand what's going on
07:59 <@preaction> i don't get your logic, but i like what what you said
08:07 <+perlDreamer> rizen: http://rafb.net/p/hkvfYO28.html
08:08 <@rizen> 2 changes
08:08 <@rizen> dateSubmitted only gets set if you're in the first if
08:08 <@rizen> same with threadId
08:09 <@rizen> want me to rewrite or do you get me?
08:09 <+perlDreamer> I get you
08:09 <+perlDreamer> dateSubmitted should be dateUpdated, to preserve the original
08:09 <@rizen> don't think you get me
08:10 <+perlDreamer> you better rewrite
08:10 <@rizen> rewriting
08:13 <@rizen> http://rafb.net/p/WIQfV812.html
08:13 <@rizen> methinks that's better
08:14 <@rizen> do you see?
08:15 <+perlDreamer> yes, but I was trying to keep the reads of $now to be very close
08:15 <@rizen> or did i screw up?
08:15 <@rizen> we're talking ms here, cuz the update is what takes a long time
08:15 <@rizen> i suppose get parent could take a long time
08:16 <@rizen> let me reorder
08:17 <@rizen> http://rafb.net/p/SgVx2N67.html
08:17 <@rizen> can't get much closer
08:17 <+perlDreamer> no
08:18 <@rizen> the only other way to fix this
08:18 <@rizen> is to set dateSubmitted
08:18 <@rizen> update
08:18 <@rizen> then read the dateSubmitted into dateUpdated
08:18 <@rizen> and update again
08:18 <@rizen> which is much slower
08:18 <+perlDreamer> but all of this depends on my crazy idea being right
08:18 <+perlDreamer> and in that case slower doesn't matter
08:18 <+perlDreamer> it used to call update 3 times
08:18 <@rizen> true
08:21 <+perlDreamer> we could subtract dateSubmitted from dateUpdated, take the abs and then make sure it's less than or equal to 1
08:21 <+perlDreamer> abs(dateSubmitted-dateUpdated) <= 1
08:23 <@preaction> what if 2 seconds pass? or for some reason 3?
08:23 <@preaction> system lag perhaps?
08:23 <+perlDreamer> you're right, that's just a bandaid
08:23 <+perlDreamer> it should be the same time
08:24 <+perlDreamer> this whole solution is predicated on the compiler optimizing $now back into time()
08:24 <@preaction> i don't see why it would
08:24 <+perlDreamer> well, we know that dateSubmitted != dateUpdated in the db
08:24 <@preaction> but then again, perl does strange things
08:24 <+perlDreamer> it's just a question of how it got that way
08:25 <+perlDreamer> Asset::Post::addRevision is the only place in the codebase where those variables are set
08:25 <+perlDreamer> I grep'ed the whole thing to check
08:27 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I'm getting ready to crash.  Any last second doc questions?
08:27 <@preaction> instead of setting them both to $now, set one to $now and then the other to that one? durno
08:28 <@preaction> um... not that i know of
08:30 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'm outta here
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 01 11:38:44 2007
--- Log opened Thu Feb 01 11:43:54 2007
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16:52 <@khenn> wow I didn't get dropped?
16:53 <@khenn> amazing
16:53 <@khenn> anyone around this morning?
16:54 -!- khenn is now known as khenn_afk
17:11 <@preaction> morning
17:11 < pjesi_> afternoon
17:11 <@preaction> LIES!
17:11 < Meatbop> mornin
17:11 <@preaction> khenn was just asking what's new
17:12 < xdanger> afternoon
17:12 <@preaction> names
17:12 <@preaction> er...
17:12 < xdanger> preaction: was it you who wrote the new calendar?
17:12 <@preaction> yes'm
17:12 <@preaction> i accept full responsibility and will commit seppuku immediately
17:12  * preaction SEPPUKU!
17:12 < xdanger> Is there a way to list events for more than a month?
17:13 < xdanger> seppuku?-)
17:13 <@preaction> no, it was decided that the reason for that was poor navigation
17:13 < xdanger> sounds like something for anime...
17:13 <@preaction> (ninja's ritual suicide when they fail)
17:14 < xdanger> I have a client with a training schedule... they have like 1-3 a month.. so the old calendar was great...
17:14 < xdanger> http://www.datapartner.fi/en/news--events/events/workshops
17:14 <@preaction> add an RFE, the code for it shouldn't be exceedingly hard
17:15 < xdanger> we'll.. I was going to upgrade today...
17:15 < xdanger> er...
17:15 < xdanger> I'll have a look at the code, and if I have any idea of how to do it, I'll just make a patch and send that to you ;)
17:15 <@preaction> how good are you at SQLReports?
17:16 <@preaction> xdanger: when you look at the code, get the latest SVN, i did a lot of code formatting updates to make it easier to read
17:16 <@khenn_afk> you can template 3 months at a time using HTML::Template::Expr now
17:16 <@preaction> khenn_afk: how?
17:16 <@khenn_afk> I'm still afk
17:16 <@khenn_afk> set a var
17:17 <@khenn_afk> and do a % 3 on it
17:17 <@preaction> 3 months? the Calendar does not give three months, the EventsCalendar did, the new one does not
17:17 <@khenn_afk> oh I see
17:17 <@khenn_afk> you only get 1 month at a time
17:17 <@khenn_afk> nm
17:17 <@khenn_afk> back to afk status
17:17 <@preaction> remember, future consideration?
17:17 <@preaction> k
17:19 <@preaction> xdanger: the best way to do it is to start sending an explicit "endDate" parameter to viewMonth/viewWeek/viewDay, and those are called from the main "view" method
17:19 <@preaction> xdanger: so the "view" method will have to get "endDate" from the url params, and/or from a configuration value
17:20 <@preaction> i anticipate a good 3-4 hours of hacking to put that feature in
17:20 <@preaction> but i've got bugs to fix and a support bugfix to make on the Export HTML feature
17:21 <@preaction> i'll be working until 8:00p CT, so if you have questions about the calendar just ask
17:21 <@preaction> on a different topic, this website is absolutely beautiful
17:22 < ckotil> link?
17:22 < Meatbop> which site are you checking out ?
17:23 < ckotil> heh. im working in a version tag that has ~ 5 pages of changes. i cant wait to commit it sometime today. one of our customers recently underwent a name change.
17:24 < pjesi_> xdanger: how do you provide the different languages?
17:25 < pjesi_> does each tree use different i18n?
17:26 <@snapcount> Doug: I'm going to help you with Calendar stuff if you want as soon as I'm done with EMS
17:26 <@snapcount> I think it's the biggest hurdle left on the bug list aside from EMS
17:26 <@snapcount> err
17:27 <@snapcount> preaction: 
17:27 <@snapcount> sorry
17:27 < xdanger> pjesi_: no, there are just different branches for each language..
17:27 <@snapcount> I want an empty list, it would be so freaking awesome to clear the bug list
17:27 < bopbop_> CB++
17:27 < xdanger> must go to late lunch now -->
17:27 <@snapcount> that too
17:28 <@snapcount> lunch?  you live in Europe I guess?
17:28 < pjesi_> xdanger: what about the template labels?
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17:35 <@preaction> snapcount: thanks for the offer, there are some large ones that will be problematic, the main ones being an i18n audit, and the Help files. I'm going to submit what I have now, and then update the status of the existing bugs
17:36 <@preaction> I have an assignment from DoS to fix the Export HTML thingy, and then I'm back on Calendar bugs
17:36 -!- mode/#webgui [+o Jamie] by snapcount
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17:36 <@preaction> so i'm here, but i'm away, busy, and will get to your requests for my presence later
17:36 -!- mode/#webgui [+o Meatbop] by snapcount
17:48 <@preaction> to anyone who wants to work on calendar bugs: i've wrote some pretty detailed descriptions on what exactly needs to be done to fix them
17:49 <@preaction> i'm moving to the DoS assignment and i'll probably be back around 1p
17:49 <@Meatbop> god speed
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17:58 <@rizen> sorry guys, been on support calls all morning
17:59 <@rizen> still am
18:04 <@preaction> when i'm exporting HTML for an asset, do I really need to open a new session for each asset I export? can't I just make one new session and point the output to the correct file each time?
18:05  * preaction got stuck fixing Drake's code, but this is paid-for work
18:09 <@rizen> yes you need a new one
18:10 <@preaction> k
18:10 <@rizen> because otherwise certain flags get set
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18:36 <+perlDreamer> morning guys
18:36 <@preaction> morning
18:37 <+perlDreamer> how's the calendar hacking?
18:37 <@preaction> stalled for a priority bugfix on the AssetExportHtml feature
18:37 <@preaction> but this time, i think i can make it work for 99.9% of cases
18:37 <+perlDreamer> cool
18:37 <+perlDreamer> any bug that gets fixed
18:38 <+perlDreamer> just write a test for it so we'll know in advance in the future if it breaks
18:38 <@preaction> i submitted my barely updated Calendar docs, and described in detail the things that need to be fixed on the Calendar in the appropriate bug threads
18:38 <+perlDreamer> I was going to take a hack at the little Slider bug
18:38 <+perlDreamer> and then hoping to do some more $now/Post reply stuff
18:38 <@preaction> i'll try. i believe i have to fix the test roy wrote for it, since i changed what the sub does
18:38 <@preaction> you didn't get that last night? you were close, no?
18:39 <+perlDreamer> close, but it still feels wrong
18:39 <+perlDreamer> Perl should not do that
18:39 <@preaction> i don't understand it myself, do the #perl people have anything to say on the issue?
18:39 <+perlDreamer> I haven't asked over there.
18:40 <@preaction> they know quite a bit, some internals hackers in there
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18:49 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: how does the linking between a template and the help icon work
18:50 <+perlDreamer> There's no direct linking
18:50 <@snapcount> I want the help for the template they are viewing to pop up when they click the icon, not the generic help for all templates
18:50 <+perlDreamer> oh
18:50 <+perlDreamer> I don't think there's anyway to do that
18:50 <+perlDreamer> that would be good though!
18:50 <+perlDreamer> real good
18:50 <@preaction> perhaps something in the right-side list of stuff "Help for this template"
18:50 <+perlDreamer> In fact, help topic awareness is one of the requirements for the template variable editor
18:50 <@snapcount> ok... put it on wish list then... I thought I was doing something wrong
18:51 <@snapcount> =)
18:51 <+perlDreamer> It's RFE-able
18:51 <@snapcount> I like that term
18:51 <@snapcount> you should trademark it
18:51 <@snapcount> pdc?
18:51 <@snapcount> gooeybot: what is pDC?
18:51 < gooeybot> i don't know, snapcount
18:51 <@snapcount> didn't you teach him that?
18:51 <@preaction> snapcount: quick, what do you expect to happen when you make a url "index.html/" when you export an asset with that url?
18:51 <@snapcount> oh well
18:52 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: that was perlbot
18:52 <@preaction> perlbot pdc
18:52 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: what is pDC?
18:52 < perlbot> Perl Dreamer's Association of associated thoughts and references that are usually puzzling and always genius for the solving of complex problems in the language of thy camel our lord as spoken by WebGUI the savior of all things cool
18:52 < perlbot> I already have an entry for what
18:52 <@snapcount> create a file called index.html in the starting export directory
18:52 <@preaction> gooeybot: pdc is Perl Dreamer's Association of associated thoughts and references that are usually puzzling and always genius for the solving of complex problems in the language of thy camel our lord as spoken by WebGUI the savior of all things cool
18:52 < gooeybot> OK, preaction.
18:52 <@preaction> pdc?
18:52 < gooeybot> pdc is Perl Dreamer's Association of associated thoughts and references that are usually puzzling and always genius for the solving of complex problems in the language of thy camel our lord as spoken by WebGUI the savior of all things cool
18:53 <@preaction> snapcount: so trailing /'s should just be ignored
18:53 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot: RFE-able is That idea is worthy of an RFE.  The term is trademarked by perlDreamer Consulting.
18:53 < gooeybot> OK, perlDreamer.
18:53 <@snapcount> sure... I don't even think WebGUI will keep it anyways
18:53 <+perlDreamer> oy, I'm a sophist
18:53 <@preaction> k, sounds good
18:53 <@snapcount> if you set a url to home/
18:53 <@snapcount> it will change it to home
18:53 <@snapcount> pretty sure anyway
18:54 <@snapcount> I was probably over zealous in my test cases =P
18:54 <@preaction> i've narrowed your _translate sub to two cases: one with . and one without ., i'm updating the tests and once they pass i'll fix the ordering of the export
18:54 <@snapcount> sweet
18:54 <@snapcount> nice work man
18:54 <+perlDreamer> um, AssetExportHtml is broken
18:54 <@snapcount> yeah
18:54 <@snapcount> I broke it
18:54 <@preaction> it's been broken for a long-ass time
18:54 <@snapcount> but it was broke before I broke it too
18:54 <+perlDreamer> Failed to require package 'WebGUI::Session'. Reason: 'Global symbol "$assetSession" requires explicit package name at /data/WebGUI/lib//WebGUI/AssetExportHtml.pm line 148.
18:54 <+perlDreamer> Global symbol "$assetSession" requires explicit package name at /data/WebGUI/lib//WebGUI/AssetExportHtml.pm line 149.
18:54 <@snapcount> I just broke it different
18:54 <+perlDreamer> not that kind of broke :)
18:55 <@snapcount> that wasn't me
18:55 <+perlDreamer> If I patch that, (needing my) will I break anyone's commit?
18:55 <@snapcount> someone else gets credit for that
18:55 <@snapcount> preaction is the one working on it
18:56 <@preaction> that was me, that's fixed
18:56 <@preaction> let me update SVN now
18:56 <+perlDreamer> thanks, man
18:57 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: the title of my new help page is not showing up in the help index... what makes that work?
18:57 <+perlDreamer> that's usually a broken i18n link
18:57 <+perlDreamer> cd /data/WebGUI/t; prove Help/ i18n/
19:00 <@snapcount> I need the perlDreamer rosetta stone
19:00 <@snapcount> label: Asset_EventManagementSystem->errorLoop inside Asset_EventManagementSystem->ems checkout template->variables'
19:00 <@snapcount> what does that mean?
19:00 <+perlDreamer> that means that it wasn't able to do a lookup on the errorLoop variable inside the Asset_EMS ems checkout template
19:02 <+perlDreamer> that error message could definitely use some help
19:02 <@snapcount> a lookup?
19:02 <@snapcount> a lookup of what and where is it looking?
19:02 <@snapcount> errorLoop inside i18n?
19:02 <+perlDreamer> it is trying to do this: $i18n->get('errorLoop', 'Asset_EMS');
19:02 <@snapcount> ok
19:02 <@snapcount> ty
19:05 <@snapcount> so there has to be an i18n entry for every 'name' key inside the help file?
19:05 <@snapcount> I thought that was simply the name of the template variable... so why would that be i18n?
19:05 <+perlDreamer> It's a shortcut
19:05 <@snapcount> it's the same regardless of what language
19:06 <+perlDreamer> The long form is name => 'myName', description => 'description i18n entry'
19:07 <+perlDreamer> if, however, the i18n key myName isn't already being used, then you can omit the description and the Help system will look up the "descriptive i18n entry" using myName as the key.
19:08 <@snapcount> so the 'name' in the help file is the key to the description of that variable inside the i18n file
19:08 <+perlDreamer> it can be
19:08 <+perlDreamer> that's the shortcut method
19:09 <@snapcount> and if you specify a 'description' key in the help file, 'name' is ignored, and 'description' is used for the lookup?
19:09 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:09 <+perlDreamer> there is also 1 other key that you can set
19:09 <+perlDreamer> required => 1
19:09 <@snapcount> so, if you specify 'description' name does absolutely nothing then
19:09 <+perlDreamer> well, it is used for the "name" of the template variable.  But that's all
19:10 <@snapcount> meaning the name thats displayed to the user
19:10 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:10 <@snapcount> no translation
19:10 <+perlDreamer> right
19:10 <@snapcount> ok... I think I got it then
19:10 <@snapcount> thanks
19:12 < xdanger> pjesi_: I use If macro heavyly on the multi-language sites...
19:14 < xdanger> or create a different site if it gets to complicated... like this: http://en.luovapaja.fi/ vs. http://luovapaja.fi/
19:16 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: the tests are passing but I see nothing in the index
19:16 <+perlDreamer> Inside the EMS topic or in the index?
19:16 <@snapcount> the index list of all help topics
19:17 <@snapcount> do I need to set the CODE_COP variable?
19:17 <+perlDreamer> no
19:17 <@snapcount> k
19:17 <+perlDreamer> CODE_COP does code level i18n and setHelp scanning
19:17 <+perlDreamer> look at the HTML source for the page and look to see if there's an empty href where the entry should be
19:17 <+perlDreamer> or do a commit and I'll have a look at it
19:17 <+perlDreamer> or both
19:18 <@snapcount> does there have to be an i18n key that matches with the main key to the entry in the help file?
19:18 <+perlDreamer> like a title and a body entry in the help file?  yes
19:18 <+perlDreamer> otherwise there's nothing to link to
19:18 <@snapcount> I have title and body
19:18 <@snapcount> I was asking about the one above it
19:18 <@snapcount> that contains everything for the entry
19:19 <@snapcount> ok... I'll have another quick look and commit to see if you see my snafu
19:19 <+perlDreamer> okay
19:19 <@snapcount> I have to help out with support in like 60 seconds =)
19:20 <@snapcount> doh!
19:20 <@snapcount> found it... I had the tile set to Checkout Template
19:20 <@snapcount> so it was there... just not where I thought it should be
19:20 <+perlDreamer> Hmmm... maybe i should add a duplicate check to the Help test
19:20 <@snapcount> it's now EMS Checkout Template
19:20 <@snapcount> user error... my bad
19:20 <+perlDreamer> It would show up correctly in the chapter
19:20 <@snapcount> thx
19:21 <@snapcount> everything seems right but the formatting is screwy for the tmpl vars in the loop
19:22 <@snapcount> I'll check it in can you take a look?
19:22 <+perlDreamer> sure
19:22 <@snapcount> ty
19:31 <@snapcount> ok it's checked in
19:31 <@snapcount> thanks perlDreamer 
19:31 <+perlDreamer> np, man.
19:40 <@preaction> what are Whitespace.t tests and is failure okay?
19:41 <@preaction> i decided to run the tests before i committed this change (like a good boy), and Whitespace.t failed
19:42 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:43 <@preaction> pinging perlDreamer 
19:44 <@preaction> SYN?
19:46 <+perlDreamer> brb
19:48 <@preaction> nevermind, figured it out
19:48 < ckotil> If i wanted to hack up the asset manager a little bit; by adding a new colum <meta data> . Where would i look to find the javascript code that creates the html for the asset manager?
19:48 <@preaction> the got: 'XX' is the line number of the error
19:48 <@preaction> ckotil: why?
19:48 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: Asset.pm
19:48 <@preaction> this doesn't sound like a good idea :(
19:48 < ckotil> heh.
19:48 <+perlDreamer> preaction, I already committed a fix for the whitespace
19:48 <@preaction> oh, crap
19:48 <@preaction> ok
19:48 < ckotil> well, im just tossing around a couple ideas in my head and that was one of them.
19:49 <@preaction> well, i'll merge then
19:49 < ckotil> we're going to attempt to  use webgui as a document mangager
19:49 < ckotil> one of the views we've been thinking of is to use the asset manager. but want to be able to see meta data, or a description of the file.
19:50 < ckotil> s/views/interfaces
19:50 < ckotil> or i might create a new folder asset template
19:51 <@preaction> ckotil: how about instead of adding a different column for the data, add another row that can be expanded/collapsed with a javascript image button
19:51 < greghacke> I would still like to be able to use the Metadata: Summary from assets as a tmpl_var
19:51 < ckotil> another row?
19:51 <+perlDreamer> how about we template that sucker?
19:51 < ckotil> each asset gets has 1 row
19:51 < ckotil> template the asset manager!
19:52 <@preaction> perlDreamer: might be a more permanent solution
19:52 <+perlDreamer> greghacke: all the metadata is available in every asset template
19:52 < ckotil> greghacke: is metadata summary differnet from metadata?
19:52 <@preaction> ckotil: basically this: +  []  1  <name>   <whatever>    <more columns>
19:52 < ckotil> yeah just tmpl_var <meta_data_name>
19:53 <+perlDreamer> <tmpl_var meta_data_name>
19:53 < ckotil> ah, so hit the + and a new row pops up?
19:53 <@preaction> ckotil: clicking the + will show the row beneath is, which has a colspan over them all and has "description: <blah> metadata: <blah>"
19:53 < ckotil> nice.
19:53 < ckotil> yeah i like that.
19:53 < ckotil> thx
19:54 < greghacke> so... <tmpl_var summary> for the summary section of the summary area of a page or article.  my intent is to actually query some of this data in an sql report
20:01 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: the formatting looks okay to me.  What are you seeing?
20:03 <@snapcount> looking at it again I see what it is
20:03 <@snapcount> isError is bolded
20:03 <@snapcount> and wraps to the second line
20:03 <@snapcount> so it kind of runs together with the loop variable
20:05 <+perlDreamer> which browser are you using?
20:05 < ckotil> preaction: while it would be real nice to write some new javascript into asset.pm so that we can use the asset manager as the interface for our file repository/DMS , i think im gonna just create a new folder asset template.
20:06 < ckotil> Im looking in Help: Folder Template, and im not seeing anything about metadata.
20:06 < ckotil> anyone know if metadata is part of tmpl_var for folder asseet?
20:06 <+perlDreamer> metadata is automatically added to all asset templates
20:06 < ckotil> perfect. thanks
20:06 <+perlDreamer> it's only recently been documented.
20:08 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: FF
20:08 <@snapcount> it's not a big deal, more of an aesthetic thing
20:08 <+perlDreamer> it looks okay to me in Mozilla 1.4 (urk).  Maybe we could have Meatbop look at it?
20:09 < greghacke> what broswer you all need?
20:09 <+perlDreamer> it's uncommitted docs
20:09 < greghacke> ah, understand.
20:09 <@Meatbop> trying to catch up on what I'm being asked to look at...
20:10 <@Meatbop> been on something else, can I get a sum-up?
20:10 <+perlDreamer> snapcount's seeing weird things with the template variable displays in the Help
20:10 <+perlDreamer> but the code's not released yet, so we can't just point you at a page
20:11 <@Meatbop> screenshot would be enough for the time being
20:11 <+perlDreamer> it uses <DL>'s
20:25 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: I lied
20:25 <+perlDreamer> it isn't documented
20:25 <+perlDreamer> I'll fix that right now
20:26 < ckotil> between you and me, Its OK.
20:28 <@snapcount> Meatbop: I sent you a screen shot
20:28 <@snapcount> via email
20:29 <@Meatbop> k
20:30 <@Meatbop> so i take it that error is supposed to be at the same indent as errorLoop?
20:30 <+perlDreamer> no
20:30 <+perlDreamer> I don't think so
20:31 <+perlDreamer> error is in the loop
20:31 <+perlDreamer> so it should be indented
20:33 <+perlDreamer> but I haven't seen the snapshot
20:34 <@Meatbop> basically the indented portion could use a line break above it.
20:34 <@Meatbop> it looks just a little fugly butting up against the line right above it
20:35 <+perlDreamer> what's the best way to do unfuglify it?
20:35 <@Meatbop> heh
20:35 <@Meatbop> snap, can you sent me the html so I can actually see what it's doing?
20:35 <@Meatbop> i'll be better able to make a suggestion
20:36 <+perlDreamer> done
20:37 <@Meatbop> well that was quick :)
20:38 <+perlDreamer> it's my bad templating
20:38 <@snapcount> this proxy bug is ticking me off
20:39 <@snapcount> I'm going to go eat something before I knaw the top of my monitor off
20:39 <@snapcount> half eaten company owned mac book pro does not a happy rizen make
20:39 <+perlDreamer> well, it _is_ an Apple
20:39 <@snapcount> lol
20:40 <@rizen> who's eating your laptop?
20:40 <+perlDreamer> proxy bugs
20:40 <@rizen> ah
20:40 <+perlDreamer> have you had any epiphanies about the post reply dateUpdated/dateSubmitted bug?
20:42 <@rizen> nop
20:42 <@rizen> nope
20:42 <@rizen> snapcount, start up spectre on your box
20:42 <@rizen> do a ps
20:42 <+perlDreamer> preaction suggested that we hop over to #perl and ask about the compiler optimization
20:42 <@rizen> oh crap
20:43 <@rizen> youc an't run spectre on your box can you?
20:43 <+perlDreamer> rizen: snapcount is away
20:43 <+perlDreamer> eating
20:43 <@rizen> bah
20:46 <@Meatbop> I think just a small css tweak will make that look good perlDreamer. Going to send it back to you with the change.
20:46 <+perlDreamer> thanks
20:47 <+perlDreamer> I'll be AFK for a while, but I'll get the tweak committed today
20:47 < greghacke> who is Meatbop?
20:48 <@preaction> steve swanson
20:48 < greghacke> oh, hellow steve
20:48 < greghacke> dang, i cannot spell today.
20:48 <@Meatbop> s'all right
20:48 <@Meatbop> i can't spell most days
20:48 < greghacke> dealing with data normalization.  sucks.  working a style sheet at the same time
20:52 <@Meatbop> sent the html pd. going to be afk for a little bit
20:55 <@khenn> who wrote the weather data asset?
20:55 <@khenn> anyone remember?
20:55 <@preaction> i thought you said you did?
20:55 <@khenn> nope
20:55 <@preaction> then i don't know
20:55 <@khenn> must have been Matthew Wilson
20:55 <@preaction> but hum a few bars and i'll fake it
21:02 <@preaction> bbl, eating
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21:14 <@snapcount> I'm back
21:14 <@snapcount> what did you need rizen 
21:14 <@snapcount> ?
21:15 <@rizen> are you capable of running spectre directly on your mac?
21:17 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@c-24-23-66-147.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:18 <@snapcount> no
21:18 <@snapcount> just in a vm
21:31 <@rizen> snap are you running spectre on your vm now?
21:45 <@snapcount> yes
21:45 <@snapcount> rizen: do you need me to test something?
21:50 <@khenn> anyone know of a Perl module to convert HTML encodings like &nbsp; to ASCII encoding &#160; ?
21:51 <@preaction> are you going to run it willy-nilly? in most cases the named version is easier to understand
21:51 <@khenn> it's for RSS
21:51 <@preaction> HTML::Entities
21:51 <@preaction> maybe?
21:52 <@khenn> RSS 2.0 doesn't seem to always support &xxx;
21:52 <@khenn> but it does always support the ASCII value
21:52 <@preaction> because it's xml instead of html
21:52 <@khenn> right
21:52 <@khenn> so I want to convert them all
21:55 <@preaction> khenn: HTML::Entities, decode the vars, and then use encode_entities_numeric
21:56 <@khenn> yep
21:56 <@khenn> I think that may work
21:56 <@khenn> gonna test it out
21:56 <@khenn> thanks
21:56 <@preaction> the thing is, it's using the hex, which is in HTML but is it in XML?
21:57 <@khenn> is it hex?
21:57 <@preaction> the docs say so
21:57 <@preaction> it uses the &#x<hex number>
21:57 <@khenn> yeah
21:57 <@khenn> I see it now
21:57 <@khenn> hmm
21:57 <@khenn> I'm not sure if that will work or not
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22:00 <@preaction> there are a couple instances of the hex entity being used in the XML recommendation
22:00 <@khenn> yeah I think it will work
22:00 <@khenn> I'm gonna test it
22:03 -!- wgGuest12 [n=wgGuest1@86.107.186.248] has quit [Client Quit]
22:05 <@snapcount> hmm
22:06 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@c-24-23-66-147.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
22:08 <@khenn> heh
22:08 <@khenn> well
22:08 <@khenn> that didn't work =p
22:38 < ckotil> Anyone know the tmpl_var to display the asset type?
22:39 <@preaction> tmpl_var className might work
22:39 <+perlDreamer> But it will be like WebGUI::Asset:: ...
22:39 <+perlDreamer> Not just Snippet, Folder, etc.
22:39  * ckotil hrms
22:39 < ckotil> yah.
22:40 <+perlDreamer> use javascript to split it and return the last value?
22:40 < ckotil> yeah, gonna have to.
22:40 <+perlDreamer> write a macro to trim it?
22:40 < ckotil> ill go the js route
22:40 <+perlDreamer> that's the cool thing about you ckotil.
22:40 <+perlDreamer> you're like a bulldozer
22:40 <+perlDreamer> you just get it done.
22:41 < ckotil> heh. its my job
22:41 < ckotil> either that or get fired
22:41 < ckotil> tho im starting to get some pull around here
22:41 <@khenn> does anyone know if it's possible to call a function from within a regular expression?
22:41 < greghacke> my job right now is to mornalize 120000 records of inventory.  wanna trade?
22:41 <+perlDreamer> s/(stuff)/function(stuff)/e;
22:41 <@khenn> ah
22:41 <@khenn> e
22:41 <@khenn> thanks
22:42 < ckotil> greghacke: can you write a script for it?
22:43 < greghacke> i wish.  each item was hand entered into a flat file.  about 60% are duplicats of already existing items but there was no normalization in the data entry so one product may be entered differently for each and every item in the inventory
22:43 < greghacke> i scripted the first 6 passes - now i'm going through by hand
22:43  * ckotil shudders
22:47 <+perlDreamer> thanks for the CSS Meatbop.  It looks better
23:02 <+perlDreamer> I closed the IntSlider bug
23:02 <+perlDreamer> added Meatbop's CSS
23:03 <@rizen> i'm working on the spectre needs to be restarted all the time bug
23:03 <+perlDreamer> that's your queueing system changes?
23:03 <@rizen> yup
23:03 <+perlDreamer> I feel like we're keeping pace with bugs, but that's all
23:03 <@rizen> yup
23:03 <@rizen> however, most of the pb staff has been on support all day
23:04 <@rizen> including me
23:04 <@rizen> i've only had 30 minutes to work on bugs so far today
23:04 <+perlDreamer> preaction: any suggestions for etiquette over on #perl?
23:04 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I'm going to hop over to #perl and ask about our optimization/compiler bug
23:04 <@rizen> cool
23:04 <@rizen> this ought to be interesting
23:04 <@preaction> just ask, don't ask to ask, give as much info as possible, the best question i can think of to ask is this:
23:05 <@preaction> something...
23:06 <@preaction> something like: if I have '$now = time(); $a = $now;' and later '$b = $now', is there any reason why $a != $b?
23:07 <@preaction> otherwise, as long as you avoid the big ones: asking to ask and xy problems, they're generally friendly
23:07 <@preaction> perlbot xy problem
23:07 < perlbot> They ask how to do X, but that's because they really want to do Y but think X will get them there and most of the time they are WRONG
23:07 <+perlDreamer> all right.  I'll give it a shot.
23:08 <+perlDreamer> That was well laid out, I'm just going to copy and paste you over there.
23:09 <@preaction> i'm there too, so i can keep half-an-eye on the situation
23:09 <@preaction> merlyn's there, so i would expect brevity over politeness, but he is a Perl God
23:09 <@preaction> (Randall Schwartz himself)
23:10 <+perlDreamer> I know Randall
23:10 <@preaction> then i'll stfu
23:10 <@preaction> anyway, test-case how?
23:14 <+perlDreamer> hmmm
23:14 <+perlDreamer> not exactly going swimmingly
23:15 <@preaction> automated asset insertion using the API? force it into causing a problem?
23:15 <@preaction> if you can't do it within, say, 5000 times, maybe it's not there?
23:16 <+perlDreamer> it _is_ there.  We just don't understand how it got to be there.
23:17 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support/wiki-weirdness-and-browser-crash#UIXGb0g5I7SEUcGESmaj6w
23:18 <+perlDreamer> JT did a query and found dateUpdated and dateSubmitted to be different
23:18 <+perlDreamer> that'd be in the IRC log from last night
23:18 <@preaction> eh, eventually i usually ask "anyone else know how a variable can be two different values after being initialized with time()"
23:19 <@preaction> otherwise, stress test, this is happening fairly often it should be easy to reproduce
23:19 <@preaction> maybe instead of using $now that second time, use $properties->{dateSubmitted} or something
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23:24 <+perlDreamer> I'll try the stress test route
23:26 < ckotil> doh. i didnt realize className outputs the contaner asset
23:27 <+perlDreamer> you want the class of something in the folder loop?
23:27 < ckotil> yes
23:28 <+perlDreamer> Is an icon okay?
23:28 < ckotil> i have the icon
23:28 < ckotil> just need the name now ;]
23:28 <+perlDreamer> Have you tried 'type'?
23:29 < ckotil> i havent.
23:29 < ckotil> thanks pd
23:29 <+perlDreamer> np
23:30 <+perlDreamer> btw, that will be the short name, not the class name
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23:30 < ckotil> yah. that way i dont have to strip it
23:30 < ckotil> thx for clarifying
23:31 <+perlDreamer> I'll add that to the docs.
23:31 <+perlDreamer> I seem to be saying that more and more as I hang out in here.
23:32 <@preaction> that's why we like you!
23:32 <@preaction> <3 perlDreamer
23:32 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui
23:32 <+perlDreamer> what is "<3" ?
23:32 < ckotil> a heart
23:32 <@preaction> perlbot <3
23:32 < perlbot> bullshit, I'm way more than 3
23:32 <@snapcount> omg
23:33 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot < 2
23:33 < gooeybot> perlDreamer: what?
23:33 <+perlDreamer> catch a clue, gb
23:33 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot <3
23:33 < gooeybot> perlDreamer: sorry...
23:34  * preaction wacks gooeybot with a cluestick
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23:36 <@khenn> who "fixed" RSSFromParent?
23:37 <@khenn> anyone know?
23:37 <+perlDreamer> svn blame?
23:37 <@khenn> yeah
23:37 <@khenn> good idea
23:37 <@preaction> khenn: what did i break?
23:37 <@khenn> not sure if you broke anything
23:38 <+perlDreamer> he hasn't said what's broken.
23:38 <@khenn> someone did this :
23:38 <@preaction> the "fixed" kinda tipped me off to something being wrong
23:38 <@khenn> if(UNIVERSAL::isa($item, 'WebGUI::Asset')) {
23:38 <@khenn> ...
23:38 <@preaction> Drake
23:38 <+perlDreamer> that's original code
23:38 <@khenn> } elsif(ref $item eq 'HASH') {
23:39 <@khenn> then there's a comment :
23:39 <@preaction> Drake
23:39 <+perlDreamer> hold on
23:39 <@khenn> ### This does not do any XML escaping. A way must be found to
23:39 <@khenn>                 # recursively escape the entire data structure.
23:39 <@preaction> the comment and that section is me
23:39 <@preaction> well, the comment i guess isn't
23:39 <+perlDreamer> I thought we were escaping inside the template now
23:40 <@khenn> well, what's happening is that collaboration systems RSS feeds aren't being XML encoded
23:40 <@khenn> since they return hashes
23:40 <+perlDreamer> <tmpl_var whatEver ESCAPE="HTML">
23:40 <@khenn> heh
23:40 <@preaction> perlDreamer: it's possible that isn't working, XML != HTML
23:40 <+perlDreamer> true
23:40 <@khenn> it's likely
23:40 <@khenn> it's not working =)
23:40 <+perlDreamer> because I remember that fix
23:40 <@preaction> meh, it's working better than it was :p
23:41 <+perlDreamer> preaction, me and rizen did it one night.  It used to error out
23:41 <@khenn> it's not working at all if you have any sort of HTML in there
23:41 <@khenn> &nbsp;
23:41 <@khenn> that breaks the feed
23:41 <@preaction> filter them out, they aren't needed, especially &nbsp;
23:41 <+perlDreamer> Does RSS allow HTML inside itself?
23:42 <@preaction> not that i'm aware of
23:42 <@khenn> ok
23:42 <@khenn> ok
23:42 <@khenn> I have a fix I think
23:42 <@preaction> RSS isn't presentational, so non-breaking spaces are irrelvant
23:42 <@khenn> I just wanted to find out why you weren't calling the _escapeXML method
23:42 <@khenn> for each item
23:42 <@preaction> because of the comment
23:42 <@preaction> _escapeXML doesn't recursively escape the data structure
23:43 <@khenn> why would it need to?
23:43 <@khenn> the hash contains data
23:43 <@preaction> because it's a data structure
23:43 <+perlDreamer> I wonder if Sam Tregar would take another patch to H::T for escaping XML?
23:43 <@khenn> what would it need to be recursive?
23:43 <@khenn> s/what/why/
23:43 <@preaction> it's not just a hash?
23:43 <@preaction> hash of arrayrefs of hashrefs perhaps?
23:43 <@preaction> template loops are array refs
23:43 <@preaction> that _escapeXML was doing horrible things to those array refs
23:44 <@khenn> ok
23:44 <@khenn> I was just wondering
23:44 <@khenn> yeah the escapeXML was not though through very well
23:51 <+perlDreamer> okay, I know now how to hack H::T to do the escaping
23:51 <+perlDreamer> what are valid XML escapes?
23:52 <@preaction> HTML::Entities can unescape the HTML, you will have to find something that will escape the result for XML
23:54 <+perlDreamer> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=15502551
23:56 <+perlDreamer> This very thing was talked about on the H::T list 9 months ago.
23:56 <+perlDreamer> It just died in committee
23:56 <+perlDreamer> but if we fix it by extending H::T, what happens to the other Template plugins?
23:58 <@preaction> we'd have to give a patch to H::T and hope it gets committed, i think i went through this with JT about the deep-loop global_vars bug
23:59 <+perlDreamer> what's with the code in /data/WebGUI/lib/XML/RSS/Creator.pm ?
23:59 <@preaction> couldn't tell you, i think i suggested distributing our own H::T, but i was shot down
23:59 <+perlDreamer> I see
--- Day changed Fri Feb 02 2007
00:00 <+perlDreamer> Creator is a parser.
00:01 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: did you credit the guy who gave us that patch in the change log?
00:01 <+perlDreamer> yes.  Do you happen to know his last name?
00:01 <+perlDreamer> all I found was "patrick" and "patspam"
00:01 <@snapcount> no I don't...
00:01 <@snapcount> thanks for committing that, and I'm sure you tested it first
00:02 <@snapcount> I don't think we've ever got one from him before
00:02 <+perlDreamer> I did.  Had to make my own Asset tweak in order to do it.
00:02 <@snapcount> ok cool
00:02 <+perlDreamer> The Slider slid.  It was good.
00:02 <@snapcount> I'm a little paranoid with new people and their patches =)
00:02 <@preaction> word
00:02 <@snapcount> cool cool
00:03  * preaction worries more about the evils he knows
00:03 <@snapcount> maybe more people will submit patches with their bugs
00:03  * snapcount dreams a little dream
00:03 <+perlDreamer> drop him 100 karma
00:03 <+perlDreamer> s/drop/give/
00:03 <@snapcount> hmm
00:03 <@snapcount> that's not a bad incentive
00:03 <+perlDreamer> we'd have to do it manually though
00:03 <@snapcount> yeah
00:03 < greghacke> next you'll tell me to submit bugs
00:03 <@snapcount> that's fine
00:04 <@snapcount> and if it starts taking a bunch of time b/c it's manual
00:04 <@snapcount> that is a *good* thing
00:04 <+perlDreamer> greghacke: Submit bugs
00:04 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: shoot me an email with that suggestion so I don't forget about it
00:05 <@snapcount> I need to mull it over... I don't know if 100 is too much or too little
00:05 < greghacke> I could submit bugs on EMS but I think I'll hold on that until I crawl the code again.
00:05 <+perlDreamer> You get 5 for submitting, 5 for closing.
00:06 < greghacke> 5 per level - cosmetc: 5, minor: 10; critical: 15, fatal: 20
00:06 <@snapcount> trouble with that is that it's a subjective scale
00:06 <@snapcount> critical to you could easily be cosmetic to most
00:06 <@snapcount> and vice versa
00:06 < greghacke> absolutely true.
00:06 <@snapcount> I'd prefer one number
00:07 <@snapcount> a bug is a bug
00:07 < greghacke> karma itself is a subjective system though.
00:07 < gooeybot> itself is a subjective system though. has neutral karma
00:07 <@snapcount> and it keeps it fair
00:07 < greghacke> don't believe much in 'fair'
00:07 <@snapcount> time for sk00L
00:08 <@snapcount> ttyl guys
00:08 <+perlDreamer> hack on, duded
00:08 -!- snapcount is now known as snap_learner
00:20 <@khenn> got another regex question
00:20 <+perlDreamer> bring it
00:21 <@khenn> I want to find everything in the string that looks like: &...;
00:21 <@khenn> but my regexp is finding the first &
00:21 <@khenn> and the last ;
00:21 <@khenn> when I do: 
00:21 <+perlDreamer> use \S+ instead of .
00:21 <@khenn> s/(&.*;)//;
00:21 <@khenn> ah
00:21 <+perlDreamer> \s is whitespace
00:21 <+perlDreamer> \S is non-whitespace
00:21 <+perlDreamer> all characters
00:22 <+perlDreamer> use \w instead of \S
00:22 <+perlDreamer> \w+
00:22 <+perlDreamer> \w is word characters
00:22 <+perlDreamer> do you need to find '#'?
00:23 <@khenn> no
00:23 <+perlDreamer> then use \w
00:23 <+perlDreamer> if you need to find '#', use &([^;]+);
00:24 <+perlDreamer> preaction: this stress tester is stressful.  First you have to build a CS, then commit it, then add a thread, and _then_ you can starting shoving posts into it.
00:25 <@preaction> the bug is messed up :(
00:34 < greghacke> functional question: fastest way to port in 12000 entries into an SQLForm table.
00:34 < greghacke> or should i hit the forums?
00:35 <+perlDreamer> why SQLForm?
00:36 < greghacke> agency hosting using extra database for SQLForm.  customer uses it for data tracking (or will when i finish normalizing it)
00:36 < greghacke> two tables, ~6000 records into the first and 12000 to the second.
00:36 <@preaction> greghacke: probably a direct DBI query script
00:36 < greghacke> thought so.
00:36 <+perlDreamer> note that SQLForm data is versioned by default
00:37 <@khenn> anyone know anything about RSS 2.0?
00:37 < greghacke> yeah, i'm referencing the default columns for the data (except for the __recordId)
00:37 <+perlDreamer> khenn: sorry
00:37 <@khenn> I guess I'll try it
00:37 <+perlDreamer> there's some info in /data/WebGUI/lib/XML/RSS/Creator.pm
00:37 <@khenn> and see what happens
00:53 <@khenn> I'm guessing that having HTML stripped out of your RSS is not the desired effect eh?
00:56 <+perlDreamer> I bet iTunes will actually render the HTML, whereas a strict RSS reader wouldn't
00:57 <@preaction> might have to read the spec on that, i would think that RSS would not include HTML tags
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01:02 <@khenn> it doesn't
01:02 <@khenn> and there weren't any anyway
01:03 <@khenn> b/c my test was on a collab system which is returning synopsis as the description
01:03 <@khenn> but my fix should handle just about everything in terms of RSS
01:04 <@khenn> I'm sure wierd Arabic, Japaneese, Chineese, etc characters are gonna mess things up
01:04 <@khenn> but I'm guess thing will handle 99% of what it needs to
01:04 <@khenn> can someone with a mac test something out for me in Safari and/or FF?
01:04 <@khenn> http://frank1.plainblack.net:8084/news2/alumni-news/alumni-news.rss
01:06 <@khenn> the links don't work btw cause my config file is screwed up
01:11 <@preaction> testing
01:12 <@preaction> FF on Mac likes your page
01:12 <@preaction> trying Safari
01:13 <@preaction> safari likes it too
01:15 <@khenn> cool
01:18 <@khenn> wahooo!!!
01:18 <@khenn> she seems to be fixed
01:18 <@khenn> any of the dutch people around atm?
01:19 <+perlDreamer> nope
01:20 <@khenn> I think my fix to RSS shoudl support nearly everything
01:20 <@khenn> I'm slightly worried about HTML and funky characters in other languages
01:21 <@preaction> eh, would it have worked before you fixed it?
01:22 <@khenn> not sure
01:22 <@khenn> it probably will work
01:22 <@khenn> it does not, however recurse
01:23 <@preaction> so people who use RSSFromParent for non-RSS exporting...?
01:23 <@preaction> it needs to recurse?
01:27 <@preaction> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/repeatedly-e-mailes-after-edit-branch <- is this not expected behavior?
01:28 <+perlDreamer> preaction: re RSS, that's why I think it should be done in the template.
01:29 <+perlDreamer> template level escaping allows you to reuse the RSS to do anything
01:29 <@preaction> indeed... but it can't be at this moment
01:29 <+perlDreamer> why not?
01:29 <@preaction> because H::T doesn't?
01:29 <+perlDreamer> from what I can tell, HTML escaping is a superset of XML escaping.
01:30 <@preaction> that's the problem, there are HTML escape entities that XML doesn't understand
01:30 <@preaction> nbsp for example
01:31 <+perlDreamer> it's a mess
01:31 <@preaction> complete
01:32 <@preaction> quick question though: if you do an edit branch on a cs, would you not expect to get a bunch of e-mails because you edited the posts in the edit branch?
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01:32 <@preaction> monkey...
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01:33 <+perlDreamer> am I really back?
01:36 < greghacke> No
01:36 < greghacke> pD is not here.  Please leave a message at the sound of the tone.
01:36 <+perlDreamer> "Where is the any key?"
01:37 <@khenn> re: RSS the problem lies in RSS 2.0
01:37 <+perlDreamer> RSS 2.0 says that it can contain HTML?
01:37 <@khenn> no, it cannot contain HTML Entities
01:37 <@khenn> it requires ASCII or Hex values due to UTF-8 conversions or some crap like that
01:38 <@khenn> and because H::T does not have ESCAPE="ASCII"
01:38 <@khenn> it fails miserably
01:38 <+perlDreamer> I see
01:38 <+perlDreamer> wouldn't it be easier just to shoot the people who are manually entering HTML into the textField for Synopsis?
01:39 <+perlDreamer> that long delay says that you're either ignoring me, or seriously considering it
01:40 <@khenn> I was posting somewhere else
01:40 <@khenn> HTML should still work actually
01:40 <@khenn> I didn't test it, but I don't see why it wouldn't
01:40 <@khenn> I'm slightly concerned about it
01:41 <@khenn> I'm more concerned about characters that HTML::Entities isn't familiar with
01:41 <@khenn> < and > are handled appropriately
01:42 <+perlDreamer> how about &, ' and "?
01:42 <@khenn> converted
01:42 <@khenn> to whatever the hex value is for them
01:43 <@khenn> HTML::Entities::encode_numeric();
01:46 <@preaction> khenn: why would HTML::Entities be unfamiliar with any characters?
01:47 <@preaction> perlDreamer: do you remember this? http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/dataform-grouptoviewentries-behavior
01:47 <+perlDreamer> yes
01:47 <@preaction> is it a bug?
01:47 <+perlDreamer> Not really.  It's more of an RFE.
01:47 <@preaction> ok, i'll just close it then
01:48 <@preaction> also, if you edit branch on a CS, would you not expect to be e-mailed the Posts that were edited?
01:49 <+perlDreamer> Me, personally, I would not
01:49 <+perlDreamer> To me edit branch is like a db hack.  It shouldn't trigger any side effects.
01:49 <@preaction> i suppose this means we drag out rizen
01:49 <+perlDreamer> you need to double check that one with the rizenator
01:50 <@preaction> rizen: is this a bug? http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/repeatedly-e-mailes-after-edit-branch
01:50 <@khenn> preaction:  The docs say it handles unknown characters by simply returning the character
01:51 <@khenn> it doesn't document what it does and doesn't know
01:51 <@khenn> did that make sense?
01:51 <@preaction> yeah
01:51 <+perlDreamer> khenn: what does the source say?
01:52 <@khenn> the source?
01:52 <@khenn> heh
01:52 <@preaction> perlbot utsl
01:52 <@preaction> use the source, luke!
01:52 <@preaction> perlbot rtfs
01:52 < perlbot> READ THE FUCKING SOURCE
01:52 <@preaction> or that...
01:53 <@khenn> YOU READ THE FUCKING SOURCE
01:53 <@preaction> that's telling him!
01:56 <+perlDreamer> yup, there are unfamiliar characters
01:56 <+perlDreamer> there's a manual table of entities
01:56 <@khenn> I figured as much
01:56 <+perlDreamer> if it's not in the table, it's unknown
01:56 <@khenn> If it was going somewhere on the internet to get the list it probably would require LWP =)
01:57 <+perlDreamer> true.  Although sometimes they do it indirectly with a 1-time fetch at install, so the LWP requirement is buried in the Make/Build script.
01:58 <@preaction> these entities are described in a standard, no reason to LWP for them
01:59 <@khenn> um
01:59 <@khenn> they change every year
01:59 <@khenn> not many changes
01:59 <@khenn> usually additions
01:59 <@preaction> so you're saying HTML 4.01 standard changes every year?
02:00 <@khenn> no, I'm saying the UTF-8 standard does
02:01 <@preaction> how about the character sets? that I can agree with
02:02 <@khenn> Let's see how the new specter changes work
02:02 <@khenn> spectre
02:05 <@khenn> I have more memory free
02:05 <@khenn> 20megs more than usual
02:05 <@khenn> after a restart
02:06 <@preaction> that's always good
02:07 <@khenn> 53 bug fixes documented so far
02:07 <@khenn> in 7.3.9
02:07 <@preaction> 30-some left on the lists
02:07 <@khenn> yep
02:07 <@khenn> I'm gonna be bugfixing tomorrow as well
02:13 <+perlDreamer> how do you add a Post to a Thread via the API?
02:13 <@preaction> addChild
02:14 <+perlDreamer> hint, this isn't good enough: my $post = $thread->addChild({className=>'WebGUI::Asset::Post', 'title'=>'Post', 'threadId'=>$thread->getId});
02:14 <@preaction> what's the error?
02:14 < gooeybot> the error is in the loop
02:14 <@preaction> no, gooeybot, the error is <reply>
02:14 < gooeybot> okay, preaction.
02:14 <@preaction> what's the error?
02:14 <+perlDreamer> working on it.....
02:14 <@preaction> (was just testing gooeybot)
02:15 <@preaction> in other news: i learned how to stop gooeybot from replying to simple, stupid questions
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02:16 <+perlDreamer> preaction: Can't call method "getParent" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib//WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm line 307.
02:16 <+perlDreamer> I'll paste the Post stuffing script
02:17 <@preaction> you're going to have to skip the autocommit
02:17 <+perlDreamer> and do a manual commit?
02:17 <@preaction> addChild({},{skipAutoCommitWorkflow=>1});
02:17 <@preaction> yeah
02:17 <@preaction> i think that's the right option
02:18 <+perlDreamer> for the thread, too?
02:18 <@preaction> i don't think threads autocommit
02:19 <@preaction> wait
02:19 <@preaction> i don't know
02:19 <+perlDreamer> They must
02:19 <@preaction> you're righ
02:19 <+perlDreamer> Threads are really posts
02:22 <+perlDreamer> preaction: http://rafb.net/p/E4TYvQ38.html
02:23 <+perlDreamer> it's ...Workflows
02:23 <+perlDreamer> plural
02:23 <@preaction> figures
02:24 <+perlDreamer> it's not fun doing dev on a 500 MHz P3
02:24 <@preaction> will addRevision do it? dateSubmitted is the same as dateUpdated for the moment, right?
02:24 <@preaction> addRevision can so the skipAutoCommitWorkflows too, you might have to
02:25 <@khenn> I can send you some code for adding posts to Collab systems
02:25 <@khenn> I've been down this road already
02:25 <+perlDreamer> khenn: thanks
02:26 <+perlDreamer> I think we need a repo for all these 1-off scripts
02:27 <+perlDreamer> it would save time
02:28 <@khenn> it's a lot of code
02:28 <@khenn> but it does a lot of stuff
02:29 <@khenn> if you can figure out why the hell the posts won't commit as admin I'd be much obliged (note that this only doens't work if you turn on approvals)
02:29 <@khenn> I sent you all the methods it calls so you won't be confused
02:30 <+perlDreamer> I think I was committing Posts as Admin last night, when I was testing the fixed rating code.
02:30 <@khenn> well that should be committing everything as admin
02:30 <@khenn> so there should be no reason it doesn't commit
02:31 <@khenn> but it won't matter if you have approvals turned off
02:31 <@khenn> you can just comment out the line that calls the special commit code
02:33 <@khenn> apparently the fix for that template bug was to edit the file and put some debug code in...
02:33 <+perlDreamer> template bug?
02:33 <@khenn> I'm closing it now
02:33 <@khenn> yeah, trying to edit a template from the edit screen of an asset was throwing an error on plainblack.com
02:34 <+perlDreamer> was it a custom PB template?
02:34 <@khenn> no
02:34 <@khenn> actually
02:34 <@khenn> yes
02:34 <@khenn> it was a custom template
02:34 <@khenn> but it happened for even non-custom templates
02:34 <+perlDreamer> that's not good
02:35 <@khenn> well it's fixed now
02:35 <+perlDreamer> at least its fixed
02:36 <@khenn> 36 bugs left
02:36 <@khenn> I think I'm done for tonight
02:36 <@khenn> later everyone
02:36 <@preaction> cya
02:36 <+perlDreamer> bye
02:36 -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []
02:37 <+perlDreamer> I think my script is done
02:37 <+perlDreamer> have to call addChild instead of addRevision, because if the threadId isn't null then it doesn't set the dateSubmitted
02:40 <+perlDreamer> nothing in 100 Posts yet
02:40 <@preaction> Juice that baby all the way up, Cedric!
02:40 <+perlDreamer> I made it sleep 1 second between add's
02:41 <+perlDreamer> but that may be skewing the data, too
02:41 <+perlDreamer> nothing in 200
02:42 <@preaction> since sleep always sleeps to the top of a second?
02:42 <+perlDreamer> probably
02:42 <@preaction> maybe Time::HiRes and sleep to a .9 of a second?
02:42 <@preaction> perlbot -f sleep
02:42 < perlbot> Documentation for 'sleep' can be found here: http://xrl.us/ukzw
02:44 < greghacke> Good night all.
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02:44 <@preaction> night
02:48 <+perlDreamer> I slept for 0.47 seconds b/w submits, nothin g in 127 Posts
02:48 <+perlDreamer> maybe it depends on the version of perl
02:48 <+perlDreamer> or (more sanely) I'm completely wrong
02:49 <@preaction> wait
02:49 <@preaction> if the threadId is not null, then it sets the dateUpdated?
02:49 <@preaction> and only the dateUpdated
02:49 <+perlDreamer> it's all in the addRevision sub in Post.pm
02:49 <+perlDreamer> if the threadId is empty, it calls it a new post
02:50 <+perlDreamer> and it sets the dateSubmitted to $now
02:50 <+perlDreamer> then it does another update to set dateUpdated to $now
02:50 <+perlDreamer> and then later, during commit, it checks for isNew.
02:50 <+perlDreamer> if it isNew, then it adjusts Karma and increments the number of replies.
02:51 <+perlDreamer> you'll remember our buddy isNew from last night dateSubmitted == dateUpdated
02:51 <@preaction> what if, inside the Asset->update sub, we do some dumper output of the properties we're updating with?
02:51 <@preaction> then run your test
02:51 <+perlDreamer> nothing in 500 Posts
02:51 <@preaction> so use Data::Dumper; warn Dumper $properties if $self->get("className") eq "WebGUI::Asset::Post";
02:52 <+perlDreamer> I'm manually monitoring the db as I run the test.  So it should do the same thing
02:52 <+perlDreamer> select assetId,dateUpdated,dateSubmitted from Post where dateUpdated <> dateSubmitted;
02:52 <@preaction> crap...
02:53 <@preaction> add some debug code like that to pb.com and wait for it to happen again?
02:53 <+perlDreamer> you could add that to the Post level addChild/addRevision subs, instead of at the Asset level
02:53 <+perlDreamer> can we scan through the PB db in order to see if this was a freak 1 time thing?
02:54 <@preaction> i'm worried that it's not the Post-level things that are doing it
02:54 <@preaction> i'm fairly sure it's not, there are multiple threads on pb.com with bad reply information
02:54 <@preaction> but i'll check anyway
02:54 <+perlDreamer> I'm heading home.  I'll be back on later tonight.
02:54 <@preaction> k
02:55 <+perlDreamer> nice working with you today, preaction
02:55 <@preaction> likewise
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02:56 <@preaction> 4341 rows in set... that's not so good
02:56 <@preaction> 1096 of them are off-by-one
02:57 <@preaction> some from as far back as 2004
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05:23 < PedersenMJ> good evening
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05:39 <+perlDreamer> preaction: hackest thou this fine evening?
05:39 <@rizen> pd: check out the new --status option on spectre.pl and tell me what you think
05:39 <@rizen> you may want to queue up a few workflows first
05:40 <@rizen> i wanted to know if it provides enough information to judge health
05:41 <@rizen> as you said
05:41 <+perlDreamer> will do
05:41 <+perlDreamer> How do I manually queue up workflows?
05:41 <@rizen> use the "run" link in the scheduler
05:41 <@rizen> click a few times
05:45 <+perlDreamer> not bad
05:45 <+perlDreamer> we can actually watch workflows flow through the queue
05:45 <+perlDreamer> that is very good
05:45 <+perlDreamer> if we ever need to graph stuff, we can easily add it in
05:45 <@rizen> i'm trying to figure out what else i could put in there that would be useful
05:45 <@rizen> there isn't much data that spectre knows about
05:46 <@rizen> most of it is in webgui
05:46 <+perlDreamer> It might be nice to know the original priority of a workflow, so you can see how many times its been queued
05:46 <@rizen> so in the priority column, should i do something like current / original
05:46 <@rizen> 34 / 10
05:46 <+perlDreamer> yeah
05:47 <+perlDreamer> then you look at it and say: you've been reinserted 24 times
05:47 <@rizen> i'm also thinking about keepin gtrack of the status of the last execution
05:47 <@rizen> "complete"
05:47 <@rizen> "error"
05:47 <@rizen> "waiting"
05:47 <+perlDreamer> that's good, too
05:47 <@rizen> right now we don't keep track of it
05:47 <@rizen> but it might be worth the extra memory
05:48 -!- mode/#webgui [-o snap_learner] by ChanServ
05:48 <+perlDreamer> it's 1 perl string, shouldn't be too heavy
05:48 <+perlDreamer> preaction and I spent about 2 or 3 hours looking at Posts today
05:48 <@rizen> yeah, i'm just thinking if you have 1000 things going on
05:48 <@rizen> how did you come out?
05:49 <+perlDreamer> I inserted 500 posts with skipAutocommitWorkflows, and had no problems.
05:49 <@rizen> nice
05:49 <+perlDreamer> preaction did some research on PB's site for Posts
05:49 <+perlDreamer> <@preaction> 4341 rows in set... that's not so good 02:56 <@preaction> 1096 of them are off-by-one 02:57 <@preaction> some from as far back as 2004
05:50 <@rizen> wow
05:50 <+perlDreamer> that's 1 in 4, and I couldn't hit that with 500 Posts.
05:50 <+perlDreamer> but I also had to use the skipAutoCommitWorkflows flag
05:50 <+perlDreamer> that might make things very different
05:50 <+perlDreamer> so the hiccup may be coming from the autocommit workflows
05:51 <@rizen> i guess we'll see
05:51 <+perlDreamer> what version of perl are y'all running on PB.com?
05:51 <@rizen> 5.8.8
05:51 <@rizen> or maybe 5.8.10
05:51 <@rizen> i'd have to check
05:52 <@rizen> 5.8.8
05:52 <+perlDreamer> I was running 5.8.6 at work.
05:52 <+perlDreamer> I have 5.8.8 here
05:52 <+perlDreamer> I'll try to duplicate the experiment here
05:53 <@rizen>  i'm going to quickly work in those other two things into the status
05:57 <+perlDreamer> it takes a long time to commit 500 assets
05:58 <@rizen> indeed
06:07 < PedersenMJ> Hey, JT, quick question for you: If I were to talk my company into going to WebGUI for their public site, how long would it take pb.com to convert what we have into a WebGUI style? (more detail in just a sec)
06:08 < PedersenMJ> Basically, we have a .net site right now, which uses its own templating system/etc. If we were to provide access to the current site, and allow you guys to pull down data/pages/etc, how long would it take you (normally) to make a whole new e-commerce type site using said templates?
06:09 < PedersenMJ> I know you cannot provide an accurate number without seeing it, and I'm not asking for that. Just general past experience type numbers where a client has all their data and templates, and just needs to integrate it.
06:10 < PedersenMJ> Basically, I got wind today of a fairly significant problem. Supposedly, we're supposed to be in a testing phase starting on Monday, and there's some major issues that have just cropped up today. We shouldn't be seeing major issues, not at this point, and I'm looking to gather info to try and get the current site removed.
06:11 <@rizen> style conversion is less than a week
06:11 <@rizen> content migration depends on number and complexity of pages
06:11 <@rizen> commerce system can be set up in less than a day
06:11 <@rizen> then you have to import products
06:11 <@rizen> which again is a content migration issue
06:12 <@rizen> almost certainly less than a month, but without seeing it
06:12 <@rizen> that's all i can tell you
06:12 < PedersenMJ> That's more than fair.
06:13 < PedersenMJ> As I said, this was entirely ballpark, off the cuff. I wouldn't hold you to that, I can promise.
06:13 <@rizen> honestly, the thing that holds us up more than anything else is a disorganized customer
06:13 <@rizen> once we have everything we need
06:13 <@rizen> we can rip out an entire site in under a week
06:14 <@rizen> content migration, commerce, design, the whole ball of wax
06:14 <+perlDreamer> nothing in 1500 Posts
06:14 <@rizen> that's great pd
06:14 <@rizen> this is with skip auto?
06:14 <+perlDreamer> yeah
06:14 <+perlDreamer> and same version of perl, but maybe different switches?
06:14 <@rizen> what if you don't skip auto
06:15 <@rizen> why are you skipping auto?
06:15 <@rizen> just cuz it's faster?
06:15 <+perlDreamer> I was told that I had to.
06:15 <@rizen> who told you that?
06:15 <+perlDreamer> I don't remember.
06:15 <@rizen> no reason to do that
06:15 <@rizen> the skip auto feature is only there for the branch functions
06:16 <+perlDreamer> wait a minute.  I know what it was
06:16 <+perlDreamer> it was a workaround to a bug I was getting
06:16 < PedersenMJ> Thanks. I'm going to be monitoring the situation at work as carefully as possible. And trying to introduce WebGUI for an intranet site next week sometime.
06:17 <@rizen> hey PedersenMJ...how did i piss you off the other day?
06:17 < PedersenMJ> If things fall through with the current company (and I suspect they might, the mistakes they are making are enormous), I'll be doing my best to get them to call you guys up.
06:17 <@rizen> i thought i was being nice
06:17 < PedersenMJ> You pissed me off?
06:17 <+perlDreamer> Post->getAutoCommitWorkflowId was failing
06:17 <@rizen> i said that i wanted to keep the channel all about bug fixing
06:17 <@rizen> and you made some sort of sour grapes comment
06:17 <@rizen> and left
06:17 < PedersenMJ> That was you? Ah, it was the way it was said.
06:18 <@rizen> i said please and everything
06:18 <@rizen> everyone on the channel was wondering why you were mad and left
06:18 < PedersenMJ> Here's what I saw as possible answers to the question: 1) Yes. 2) No. 3) Ignore me. 4) FOAD. I felt more like I got FOAD, when I would have much preferred 3.
06:18 <@rizen> we even discussed that it was someone other than you masquerading, because you never act like that
06:19 < PedersenMJ> That, and it was said by someone I didn't know.
06:19 <@rizen> FOAD?
06:19 < PedersenMJ> FOAD = Acronym: Fuck off and die.
06:19 <@rizen> heh...i didn't mean that certainly
06:19 -!- rizen is now known as BugSlasherMcGirk
06:19 < PedersenMJ> I think the big thing is that I didn't know that BugSlasherMcGirk was you.
06:20 -!- BugSlasherMcGirk is now known as rizen
06:20 <@rizen> my alter ego
06:20 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI 7.3.8
06:20 < PedersenMJ> You? I'd have understood it, and been okay with it. BSMG? Had never seen the name, thought it was someone trying to tell me to foad, basically, and that I was not welcome.
06:21 < PedersenMJ> Now I know, and will offer up an apology. That was more than slightly rude of me.
06:21 <+perlDreamer> Normally we don't let people treat other people in the channel that way.  If it was some jerk, we'd have nailed him.
06:21 < PedersenMJ> And the embarassing part is that I almost went ahead and asked who the heck bsmg was. Wish I had.
06:22 < PedersenMJ> I am sorry. And will take this as a lesson to ask first, rather than shoot a mouth off.
06:23 <@rizen> no biggie
06:23 <+perlDreamer> nothing in 500 Posts without autocommitworkflows
06:23 <+perlDreamer> trying 750
06:23 <@rizen> i just thought you were mad at me or something
06:23 <@rizen> you mean "with" right?
06:23 <@rizen> or "without skip"
06:23 <+perlDreamer> yes, without skip
06:23 <+perlDreamer> nothing in 750
06:24 <@rizen> i think you've got it licked man
06:24 <+perlDreamer> I don't have a bug fix.  I'm trying to duplicate the bug.
06:24 <+perlDreamer> I can't
06:25 < PedersenMJ> And will thank you for setting me straight, too. That sets my mind at ease, a lot. Man, I really need to have better integration between irc and jabber. Might have to take that side project on myself.
06:25 <+perlDreamer> nothing in 1500 Posts
06:25 <+perlDreamer> rizen, I think we should try this on PB.com and see if we can dupe it there.
06:26 <+perlDreamer> I'm getting 25 Post inserts per second
06:27 <@rizen> no offense, but i don't want to throw a bunch of crap into plainblack.com db
06:27 <@rizen> we can do it on a demo site if you like
06:27 <@rizen> but not on plainblack
06:28 <@rizen> plainblack's database is already fragmented, and has more than half a gig of data in it
06:29 <+perlDreamer> the script is completely self contained and self checking
06:29 <+perlDreamer> in the end it tells you how many busted posts it made
06:29 <@rizen> you know, as buggy as webgui might be sometimes, that's one huge testament to how cool it is
06:29 <+perlDreamer> yes it is
06:29 <@rizen> plainblack.com was created on WebGUI 0.8.0
06:29 <@rizen> and has survived every upgrade
06:29 <@rizen> to 7.3.8
06:30 <@rizen> i don't think that there are many cms providers out there that can claim any site has survived the hundreds of upgrades
06:30 <@rizen> we have
06:31 <@rizen> upgrade and cms just don't go hand in hand in most cases
06:31 <+perlDreamer> someone in the channel said that Zope sites can't do major version number upgrades.  They have to port.
06:32 <@rizen> that was me
06:32 <@rizen> but it is true
06:32 <@rizen> you have to export/import your data with a migration tool
06:32 <@rizen> and that only works for the main content
06:32 <@rizen> it won't work for any plugin data
06:33 <+perlDreamer> I emailed you the Post stuffer script
06:33 <@rizen> do you want me to run it on a demo site?
06:33 <+perlDreamer> yes, please
06:35 < PedersenMJ> BRB, switching to real IRC client.
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06:37 <@rizen> is this thing supposed to be outputting as it goes?
06:38 <+perlDreamer> no
06:38 <@rizen> http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1170390990_536
06:38 <@rizen> how many will it create?
06:38 <+perlDreamer> 1500
06:38 <+perlDreamer> it's pretty fast
06:39 <+perlDreamer> (on my unloaded machine)
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06:39 <+perlDreamer> at the end, it will tell you how many Posts it found with non-identical dateUpdated and dateSubmitted
06:39 <@rizen> it's not committing any of the tags
06:40 <@rizen> is it supposed to?
06:40 <@rizen> this is the output i got from it at the end
06:40 <@rizen> $VAR1 = [];
06:41 <@rizen> we're running 7.3.8 out there though, so i don't know if that would have anything to do with it
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06:41 < PedersenMJ> Much better.
06:42 < PedersenMJ> Using a real client is definitely better.
06:42 <+perlDreamer> rizen: will committing the tags change dateUpdated or dateSubmitted?
06:44 <@rizen> nope
06:46 <+perlDreamer> $VAR1=[] means that there were no rows found where dateUpdated != dateSubmitted
06:47 <+perlDreamer> maybe we need to add debug code to PB's WebGUI and see what's going on via logging.
06:47 <+perlDreamer> since we can't dupe the bug on command.
06:51 <@rizen> what will logging tell us
06:51 <@rizen> it seems only when it happened, not why
06:51 <@rizen> the new status screen is available for your approval...added last state and original priority
06:51 <@rizen> and also now keeps track of suspended workflows
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06:51 <+perlDreamer> it might tell us about where
06:52 <@rizen> how so?
06:52 <@rizen> this can only be happening in one spot, right?
06:52 <+perlDreamer> I hope so.
06:52 <@rizen> well in order for it to tell us something else, we'd have to be logging in more than one spot
06:52 <@rizen> but we've only got one spot to log
06:53 <+perlDreamer> I was thinking of adding code in Post, for addChild, addRevision and commit
06:54 <+perlDreamer> it seems like we've only got two choice
06:54 <@rizen> give me a patched version of the 7.3.8 Post.pm and i'll put it on there for you
06:54 <+perlDreamer> I'll work on it
06:54 <+perlDreamer> after I check our your new spectre status
06:54 <@rizen> i recommend not using the normal logging mechanism though
06:54 <@rizen> cuz we'll never find it
06:54 <@rizen> the webgui.log is too big
06:55 <@rizen> instead, just open a file to /tmp/post.log
06:55 <@rizen> or something
06:56 <+perlDreamer> that's shared among all the threads?
06:56 <@rizen> what's shared?
06:57 <+perlDreamer> there are multiple workers (apache children).  Wouldn't you have to lock the file so that they don't stomp on each other?
06:57 <@rizen> open my $file, ">>", "/tmp/post.log"; print {$file} $output; close $file;
06:57 <@rizen> nope
06:57 <@rizen> you're appending
06:57 <@rizen> so it works like magic
06:58 <+perlDreamer> do you think we'll find anything if we do this?
06:58 <@rizen> honestly...not really
06:58 <@rizen> but i don't have any other idea
06:59 <@rizen> the sherlock method says to exhaust all possibilities, until whatever is left must be your answer
06:59 <@rizen> so we should do this
06:59 <+perlDreamer> do you think we should try banging heads with the other devs tomorrow?
06:59 <@rizen> it's better than doing nothing
06:59 <+perlDreamer> pow wow?
06:59 <@rizen> we've been doing that for 2 days
07:00 <@rizen> and i'm on accounting duty tomorrow, so i won't be around most of the day
07:00 <@rizen> i guess what i'm saying is...this log can't hurt
07:00 <@rizen> maybe it will give us a clue
07:00 <+perlDreamer> the worst it can do is slow your site down a little do to the I/O
07:01 <@rizen> my site is already slow
07:01 <@rizen> which is something i've got to work on
07:01 <@rizen> so it's not even going to be noticable
07:01 <+perlDreamer> what's wrong with PB?  Why is it slow?
07:01 <@rizen> no idea
07:01 <@rizen> it really shouldn't be slow given the hardware it's on vs the traffic we get
07:02 <@rizen> honestly i'm starting to believe it's the caching system that's slowing us down
07:02 <+perlDreamer> File cache?
07:02 <@rizen> when the fs cache grows big
07:02 <@rizen> it really seems to chug
07:02 <@rizen> yeah
07:06 <@rizen> i was hoping to have all these bugs fixed this week so i could spend next week doing some profiling
07:06 <@rizen> i think that we're caching a lot of shit, that doesn't get us much or any gain
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07:07 <@rizen> so, do you think the status screen will be a good diagnostic tool?
07:07 <@rizen> can you think of any improvements?
07:07 <+perlDreamer> no
07:08 <@rizen> good, then it's good enough for the time being
07:08 <@rizen> that combined with the queue improvements, and the startup improvements
07:08 <@rizen> i think that spectre should be in pretty fit shape
07:08 <+perlDreamer> we closed 50 bugs over the last 3 days
07:09 <@rizen> is that all?
07:09 <+perlDreamer> yeah
07:09 <@rizen> it seemed like hundreds
07:09 <+perlDreamer> there are about 30 more
07:09 <+perlDreamer> we also found some non-reported bugs
07:09 <@rizen> frank, roy, and doug will all be working on bugs again tomorrow
07:10 <+perlDreamer> I should be able to help some more
07:10 <+perlDreamer> but I'm way slower than they are
07:10 <@rizen> you seem to be closing as many or more bugs than they are from my vantage point
07:10 <+perlDreamer> I had a head start :)
07:15 <@rizen> well i'm done for tonight
07:15 <@rizen> ttyl
07:15 <+perlDreamer> good night
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07:17 < PedersenMJ_> I'm headed for bed myself. Yawning more than reading or writing now.
07:17 < PedersenMJ_> g'night!
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07:59 <+perlDreamer> nobody left but us perlDreamers
07:59  * perlDreamer gollum
07:59 < Hinrik> O_o
08:01  * Radix-wrk yawns.
08:06 < Radix-wrk> I've been having dramas with Webgui of a different nature - psu in the machine hosting webgui was 'spiking' randomly - causing it to spontaneously reboot and me to panic - had to do a run-around for a replacement psu, but seems to be working fine now I'm glad to say.
08:06 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
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08:14 <+perlDreamer> is the psu on a ups?
08:18 < Radix-wrk> was yup
08:19 < Radix-wrk> I tried it without the ups thinking maybe the UPS was the problem somehow - as it was beeping when it restarted - but then it did it in front of me 2 minutes later after bypassing the UPS
08:22 < Radix-wrk> It's been up 1hr 20 mins so far, so all is good so far.. got my webdev machine with a clone of the whole site just in case this time - it's a friday afternoon and the last thing I want to do on my weekend is rush in to work - this way a few iptables rules will let me redirect to the webdev machine instead ;)
08:25 <+perlDreamer> good backup
08:42 <+perlDreamer> well, I got another bug fixed
08:42 <+perlDreamer> time to go to bed
08:42 <+perlDreamer> that will give you guys time to find more bugs
08:43 < xdanger> is there a way to catch "Illegal division by zero at..." error on a whole script level? not just putting the part in eval {};
08:43 <+perlDreamer> I don't think so.  You should only need to trap certain parts of it.
08:44 < xdanger> I just don't want to put eval on every part of that script that dows divisions...
08:44 <+perlDreamer> how about checking the data before the divisions happen?
08:44 <+perlDreamer> and error out appropriately?
08:44 < xdanger> toooooo many variables...
08:45 < xdanger> It's a complex hash that is worked on..
08:45 <+perlDreamer> you could assign the data to tied variables that overload division so that they never really divide by 0.
08:45 < xdanger> no, it's 6 different complex hashes, that are worked on =D
08:46 <+perlDreamer> in perl 6 this is easy.  perl 6 understands the concept of infinity
08:46 <+perlDreamer> in perl 5 you're stuck
08:47 <+perlDreamer> see if you can catch preaction tomorrow.  He's full of good and sneaky ideas for this kind of stuff
08:47 < xdanger> I was thinking about adding something like $var = sprintf("%.2f", $x / ($y + 0.000000000001));
08:47 < Radix-wrk> there's no try/catch stuff in perl?
08:47 <+perlDreamer> there is, on a 1 by 1 basis
08:47 < xdanger> there is eval {}; and $@
08:48 < xdanger> http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~anthony/info/perl/exceptions
08:49 <+perlDreamer> but no way to do it across an entire script, unless you wrap the whole script in the eval.
08:50 < xdanger> and then again the whole eval just fails =P
08:50 <+perlDreamer> right
08:50 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""good night""]
08:51 < xdanger> I was hoping for something like "use weird_devision_by_zero_fix;" kinda solution ;)
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17:35 <@snapcount> akjg;alkdfjaoiehgioerjnfao[';snc
17:37 <@preaction> really?
17:37 < ckotil> thats the word on the street
17:42 <@rizen> This is the new --status screen from the spectre command line: http://rafb.net/p/pi0btX35.html
17:42 <@rizen> it allows you to see what's happening inside of spectre at any given time
17:43 < ckotil> very nice.
17:43 <@rizen> can any of you think of any way to make the screen more useful for debugging purposes?
17:44 < ckotil> the activities contained in the workflows perhaps?
17:44 <@rizen> unfortunately spectre doesn't know that
17:44 < ckotil> k
17:44 <@rizen> spectre doesn't know much...for security's sake
17:45 < ckotil> that makes sense
17:47 <@preaction> would it know the last activity it tried to run?
17:48 <@preaction> that might be useful, for figuring out error and comm error statusi
17:53 <@rizen> no it doesn't know any activities
17:54 <@rizen> what it does is says, "Webgui, here's the instance that's ready to run....do it
17:54 <@rizen> and then webgui looks up the next activity
17:54 <@rizen> at least with this screen you have site name and instance id
17:54 <@rizen> from there you can go look up the other stuff in the database
17:54 <@rizen> i know it's not perfect...it's just what i can do with the data i have
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17:55 <@rizen> to take this to the next level i'd like to display a similar screen inside of webgui's UI
17:55 <@rizen> but it needs to filter out the data so that it only shows the stuff for that particular site
17:55 <@rizen> once we have that, then we can do a drill down
17:55 <@rizen> and show activities, workflows, etc
17:56 <@rizen> cuz webgui does know all this stuff
18:05 < ckotil> anyone know if there is an rfe for transferring assets/workflow/karm/etc.. between webgui sites?
18:06 < ckotil> users/groups/configs?
18:07 <@rizen> not that i'm aware of
18:08 <@rizen> there is one about users and single sign on
18:08 <@rizen> which would do that for users
18:08 <@rizen> generally speaking, if you need somthing like that
18:08 <@rizen> i'd suggest running a bunch of sites out of the same webgui instance
18:08 < ckotil> thatd be an amazing feature. but i think first there would need to be a web services interface built in first. like soap
18:08 < ckotil> thats what i do now.
18:09 < ckotil> they are each contained beneath there own page layout.
18:09 < ckotil> then i use mod_rewrite to rewrite the domain
18:09 <@rizen> yup
18:09 < ckotil> im happy with the way it worked out.
18:09 <@rizen> it's easily the best way to do it when you need to share resources like that
18:09 < ckotil> indee
18:09 < ckotil> d
18:09 <@rizen> many of our clients do the same thing
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18:14 < ckotil> hrmm.. just got your response about approval messages not processing macros
18:14 < ckotil> i need to include the date to an approval messafe
18:15 <@rizen> it's easy to add if you want to one off it
18:15 <@rizen> look at the NotifyAboutUser.pm activity, compared to the NotifyAboutVersionTag.pm activity
18:15 <@rizen> the first one does process macros
18:16 < ckotil> ok
18:16  * ckotil takes note
--- Log closed Fri Feb 02 18:20:45 2007
--- Log opened Fri Feb 02 20:06:34 2007
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20:17 < greghacke> *wonders at the sound of crickets*
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20:18 <@preaction> all the easy bugs are done, these are the hard ones, require concentration
20:19 <@preaction> i'm trying to reproduce the IE problem when HTTPS sites proxy HTTPS sites and request a file from the proxied site
20:20 < greghacke> See, I figured everyone was napping.
20:20 < greghacke> what is the error?
20:21 <@preaction> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/downloading-file-using-httpproxy-fails
20:21 <@preaction> basically: when pragma: no-cache is in effect, IE refuses to cache files downloaded via HTTPS (for security reasons)
20:21 <@preaction> since you can't save them, you can't view them
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20:23 < pjesi_> hi guys
20:23 <@preaction> hihi! you come buying? you can sell too!
20:25 < pjesi_> do you accept pounds?
20:26 <@preaction> i no understand "pounds"
20:26 <@preaction> gooeybot restart
20:26 < gooeybot> preaction: sorry...
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20:27 < greghacke> rubbles?
20:27 < pjesi_> I have plenty of ISK
20:27 < pjesi_> but I guess you dont want them
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20:29 <+perlDreamer> dont' rubles have ridges so they can't fall down?
20:29 <+perlDreamer> just so we're not doubling up, is anyone looking at the SQLForm bugs?
20:30 < greghacke> I was then i got sucked into data normalization
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20:38 <+perlDreamer> there are no default field types in the SQLForm?
20:38 < greghacke> correct, each must be paired
20:39 <+perlDreamer> how about the table, will it create it for me or do I need to initiall define it?
20:39 < greghacke> when you create sqlform, you name the table.  once you name it it creates ith with some default fields for instance, versioning, etc.
20:40 < greghacke> then you create the field types and then make your fields
20:41 <@preaction> uhm... correct me if i'm wrong, but if you use SQLForm and SQLReport in conjunction, couldn't you conceivably do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING AT ALL?
20:42 <+perlDreamer> only if the DatabaseLink allows it
20:42 < greghacke> except touch the webgui database
20:42 <@preaction> i mean like making completely custom functionality
20:42 < greghacke> almost.
20:43 <@preaction> what limitations? besides limited to WebGUI::Form elements?
20:43 <@preaction> well, and time
20:44 < greghacke> form limitiations, referential integrity, etc.
20:44 < greghacke> also the image issue.  sqlform uploads image as a blob and displaying blobs is ... painful.  they should go up as an asset
20:45 <@preaction> doesn't SQLForm allow HTMLArea fields?
20:45 <+perlDreamer> yes
20:45 <@preaction> the rich editor can upload Image assets
20:45 <@preaction> if you enable in config, iirc
20:47 <+perlDreamer> greghacke: I'm guessing your bug is that 0 is a reserved value :)
20:47 <@preaction> can i bounce some  stuff off of you guys about this bug? http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/downloading-file-using-httpproxy-fails
20:48 <+perlDreamer> sure, but I'm pretty browser ignorant
20:48 < greghacke> pD: i believe you are correct.  i could find nothing for that.
20:48 <@preaction> this is more an HTTP issue i think
20:48 < greghacke> i'm not browser ignorant but there is a discussion on IE and SSL issues on the MS site somehwere
20:48 <@preaction> basically, the HTTPProxy doesn't send anything about the headers from the proxied site except the content-type
20:48 <@preaction> so theoretically, this means that any IE downloading files over SSL with pragma: no-cache should fail, right?
20:49 <@preaction> not just HTTPProxy downloads
20:50 <@preaction> nevermind, it sends back ->content, not ->body
20:50 <@preaction> so it does send back the headers
20:51 <@preaction> reading the bug reports around the internet tubes, changing pragma: no-cache; to must-revalidate; fixes it. should i just rewrite and tell him to try? or just tell him to try?
20:51 <@preaction> i can't reproduce this, but that's because i have nothing with SSL I can try it on
20:52 <+perlDreamer> is the bug submitter a PB customer?  they might let you use their site for a debug
20:52 <@preaction> eric svanberg is from Volvo, i have no idea about their contract with us
20:54 <+perlDreamer> greghacke, might need to wait for MrHairGrease to show back up for this one.
20:54 <+perlDreamer> the code looks fine
20:54 <+perlDreamer> at first glance
20:54  * perlDreamer is out to lunch, (like physically)
20:57 < greghacke> anyone know the fastest way to get 18000 records onto an SQLForm table? :-)
20:57 <@preaction> mysql -u<user> -p<password>
20:57 <@preaction> :p
20:57 < greghacke> would LOVE to.  except it's a shared host
20:58 < greghacke> or should i say agency hosting.
21:00 <@preaction> plainblack agency hosting?
21:00 < greghacke> yeah
21:01 < greghacke> or should I say, "Yes, sir!"
21:03 <@preaction> i suppose i don't know how secure our boxen are to be making user accounts for agency hosters, but that'd be a nice feature
21:04 <@preaction> i mean, i'm sure that /data/wre/sbin/rc.webgui is world-executable
21:04 < greghacke> eh, i'll build a complete sql for the insert and then ask for the best solution, even if i have to pay to run 2 inserts.
21:04 <@preaction> greghacke: i was just about to suggest that
21:05 < greghacke> better that than hand-entering 18000 records
21:05 <@preaction> build it on a temp site, make an sql dump, and have us apply the dump
21:05 < greghacke> the site or just the sql form stuff?  the site is up and getting ready to go.  all i need is the secondary db pupulated
21:06 <@preaction> whatever you need inserted
21:06 < greghacke> although i have mysql on here, I guess i could populate that and then use it.  yeah
21:06 <@preaction> mysqldump --tables <database> <table> [<table> ...] > dump.sql
21:07 < greghacke> dealio.  off to eat food.  if rizen passes through, i am waiting on response to his package now
21:07 <@preaction> kk
21:07 -!- greghacke is now known as greghacke_eats
21:21 <@preaction> does WebGUI assume UTF-8 these days? or does it deal gracefully with UTF-8 content?
21:22 <@preaction> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/no-utf-8-in-proxied-sites <- I can fix this, but it's an RFE (since it requires HttpProxy to translate encodings)
21:22 <@preaction> however, it's really easy to fix, should only be a two-line fix
21:34 < ckotil> http://paste.biz/paste-437.html Im wondering if WebGUI::Macro::process will execute ok there.  ?
21:36 <@preaction> gooeybot paste is also |http://paste.biz
21:36 < gooeybot> OK, preaction.
21:36 <@preaction> more pastebins for our rotation ;)
21:37 < ckotil> pastebin.com is slow as fuck
21:37 < ckotil> i usually turn to pastebin.cc when pastebin.com lets me down. but some how i got to paste.biz , i htink i had a typo somewhere
21:37 <@preaction> ckotil: no, WebGUI::Macro::process requires a session as the first argument IIRC
21:37 <@preaction> gooeybot has like 5 of them now, and it gives you a random one
21:37 < gooeybot> preaction: sorry...
21:37 <@preaction> gooeybot paste
21:37 < gooeybot> paste is http://paste.biz
21:37 <@preaction> gooeybot paste
21:37 < gooeybot> paste is, like, http://paste.biz
21:37 <@preaction> or not
21:37 <@preaction> gooeybot pastebin
21:37 < gooeybot> i guess pastebin is http://sial.org/pbot
21:38 <@preaction> gooeybot pastebin
21:38 < gooeybot> it has been said that pastebin is http://sial.org/pbot
21:38 <@preaction> stupid pseudo-random crapola
21:38 < ckotil> ok thanks preaction.
21:39 <@preaction> ckotil: nevermind, i'm wrong again
21:39 < ckotil> phew.
21:39 <@preaction> cd /data/WebGUI/lib; perldoc WebGUI::Macro; <- read the fine manual
21:40 -!- greghacke_eats is now known as greghacke
21:41 < ckotil> i only want to process message.
21:41 < ckotil> but i dont know how i would pull message out of $properties. $properties[message] perhaps?
21:41 <@preaction> you only want to process one macro in the content? or you only want the output of a call to that macro?
21:42 <@preaction> perlbot perlref
21:42 < perlbot> Perl references and nested data structures - http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.8.0/pod/perlref.html
21:42 <@preaction> perlbot perldsc
21:42 < perlbot> Perl Data Structures Cookbook - http://perldoc.perl.org/perldsc.html
21:42 < ckotil> output of a call to that macro
21:42 <@preaction> so you can't use WebGUI::Macro::process, you have to use WebGUI::Macro::<yourmacro>::process
21:42 < ckotil> shit, ok then thats not what i meant.
21:42 < ckotil> im working in NotifyAboutVersionTag.pm
21:43 < ckotil> i should jsut run it and see if it breaks
21:43 <@preaction> or write a test for it
21:43 < greghacke> wrte a test
21:43 < ckotil> ive never seen or writen a test
21:44 < ckotil> there any documentation on it?
21:44 <@preaction> all a test is a perl script
21:45 <@preaction> perlbot docs for Test::More
21:45 < perlbot> Documentation for 'Test::More' can be found here: http://xrl.us/umcs
21:45 <@preaction> perlbot docs for Test::Harness
21:45 < perlbot> Documentation for 'Test::Harness' can be found here: http://xrl.us/umct
21:45 < ckotil> rock. thanks
21:45 <@preaction> you'd also be good to view the already-created tests in /data/WebGUI/t
21:45 < ckotil> ah, so thats what the t is for....test
21:45 < ckotil> thx
21:45 <@preaction> maybe look for ckuskie's presentation on Testing WebGUI
21:46 <@preaction> perlDreamer: is your presentation on Testing WebGUI available for public consumption somewhere on the internet tubes?
21:46 <@preaction> also, why am i more productive hungover with 4 hours of sleep than I am with 6-7 hours of sleep and no hangover?
21:47 < ckotil> its got to do with the alcohol
21:47 <@preaction> i've got three old, old bugs ready to be closed with approval from the higher-ups
21:47 <@preaction> (mainly because the resolution isn't quite ... resolute)
21:47 <@preaction> and the fourth will be done soon
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21:50 <@preaction> rizen: am i correct in remembering that when I ask for more information about a bug, i should close it until they respond? like http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/no-utf-8-in-proxied-sites and http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/downloading-file-using-httpproxy-fails and http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/strange-asset-manager-bug
21:51 <@rizen> yes
21:53 <@preaction> k, thanks
21:58 < ckotil> hrm...notifyAboutUser.pm seems to fail when I call on it via createcronjob
22:01 <@rizen> You can't call it from that
22:01 <@rizen> The reason is that you need to set a user object
22:01 <@rizen> and createCronJob doesn't allow you to define a user object
22:01 < ckotil> k i thoguht that may be the case.
22:02 < ckotil> so that brings me back to having to create a custom activity for WebGUI::VersionTag to be able to send an email to a specific email address.
22:03 <@preaction> sounds like a good feature, you could specify a CS's e-mail address and make a CS with "This version tag needs approval" and have a thread about "Should we approve this content?"
22:03 <@preaction> but anyway
22:03 < ckotil> yes.
22:03 < ckotil> thats basically what im using it for, just sending an email to a CS, rather, to an email list
22:08 <@rizen> the ability to send it to a specific address would be a good feature for the current notifyAbout VersionTag activity
22:08 <@rizen> if you make it work you should submit it for inclusion into the core
22:08 < ckotil> yes, its actually crucial for me
22:08 < ckotil> ok cool.
22:09 <@rizen> it would be in there already except it hadn't ocurred to me that someone would want to hard code the email address like that
22:09 <@rizen> i always thought it would be a more dynamic process
22:09 <@rizen> hence the reason it works the way it does
22:10 < ckotil> yah
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22:29 <@snapcount> I think I finally have a way to fix this ems bug
22:31 < ckotil> is there another step i need to follow when i ad a new workflow activity to the webgui.conf file? bc it showed up as a blank line in the Add new workflow activity screen.
22:31 < ckotil> i missed something. lemme recheck.
22:33 < ckotil> ah, its missing an il8n entry.
22:34 < ckotil> i18n*
22:34 <@preaction> go snappy!
22:35 < greghacke> snappy must be removing EMS
22:38 <@snapcount> heh
22:38 <@snapcount> the thought has crossed my mind
22:38 <@snapcount> this one was tricky
22:38 <@snapcount> the EMS uses two different shopping carts, sometimes both at the same time =/
22:39 <@snapcount> this could obviously be problematic
22:39 <@snapcount> weeeeeee
22:39 < greghacke> ouch.  double ouch.  literally
22:39 <@snapcount> I'm ready to move onto new bugs so hopefully this will pan out
22:45 <+perlDreamer> preaction, ckotil: IIRC, my testing presentation is at http://www.sunsetpres.org/web/webgui
22:46 <@preaction> danke
22:46 < ckotil> where do I assign an activityID to my workflow activity?
22:47 <@preaction> only an instance of an activity has an id, so when you're creating the instance to put in the workflow
22:47 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot: testing is tutorial available at http://www.sunsetpres.org/web/webgui
22:47 < gooeybot> OK, perlDreamer.
22:47 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot botsnack
22:47 < gooeybot> :)
22:47 <+perlDreamer> good gooeybot
22:48 <@preaction> if you look at the 7.2.3-7.3.0, somewhere in there I make a new activity to add to the hourly workflow scheduler
22:48 <@preaction> (which was wrong and i should be smote for)
22:48 < ckotil> ah.
22:48 <+perlDreamer> preaction: re images in the RTE disappearing, there's a built-in function to be used instead of the one the image linker is currently using
22:49 <+perlDreamer> all you need to do is trace the code for the regular linker instead of the Asset linker
22:49 <@preaction> k, sounds good
22:49 <@preaction> if i can just tear myself away from helping people in #css
22:49 < ckotil> you know what table i need to insert info into for my new activity?
22:50 <@preaction> sometimes it's fun to deal with easy issues like CSS and HTML problems, instead of deep Perl bugs and JS crap
22:50 <@preaction> ckotil: insert? use the API
22:50 < greghacke> didn't realize you were a css guru
22:50 <+perlDreamer> ckotil, you shouldn't need to do custom inserts
22:50 < ckotil> ok
22:50  * ckotil ducks
22:51 <@preaction> greghacke: certainly not guru level (though there are some regulars in that channel who are)
22:51 <+perlDreamer> dude, you should get your boss to give you some WebGUI hacking time.  Two hours per week for bug fixing and RFE implementing will do wonders for your code-fu.
22:51 < ckotil> im to the point where my activity gets listed out at the add new activity screen, but the line is blank.
22:51 <@preaction> i'm more of a trial and error kind of person
22:51 <@preaction> when it comes to CSS
22:51 <@preaction> ckotil: did you fill in the correct definition information?
22:52 <@preaction> ckotil: pastebin your activity perhaps?
22:52 <+perlDreamer> sub definition is your friend
22:52 < ckotil> sure.
22:52 <@preaction> perlbot paste
22:52 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
22:52 <@preaction> those are nice perl-specific pastebins
22:52 <@preaction> but avoid the "Notify #Perl" part
22:53 <+perlDreamer> look at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/DecayKarma.pm for a nice workflow activity example
22:54 < ckotil> http://paste.biz/paste-438.html
22:54 < ckotil> seems im the only one using paste.biz today
22:55 < ckotil> i think i have it written properly
22:55 < ckotil> doh. almost, i need use WebGUI::Mail::Send
22:56 < ckotil> ..and macro
22:58 <+perlDreamer> man!  Everything is coming Portland
22:58 <+perlDreamer> RailsConf, Ubuntu, OSCON
22:59 < ckotil> k well i cheated and looked at the source, pasted it in my url bar, added the activity to the workflow. ran it...now awaiting an email. or ill check the log for errors
22:59 < ckotil> OMG
22:59 <@preaction> you might want to use proper code practices too, naming: "Workflow_Activity_SendEmailAboutVersionTag" should be the name of your i18n file
22:59 < ckotil> w000tt
22:59 < ckotil> ok.
23:00 <@preaction> of course, when you write the RFE to add your feature, it'll probably get cleaned up (or I can do it sometime next week)
23:00 <@preaction> since we cant' add it until 7.4 anyway
23:00 <@preaction> if you have Perl Best Practices, most of the stuff in there is what WebGUI is going to try to do in the future
23:00 < ckotil> alright. ill attach my .pm to the rfe
23:00 <@preaction> word
23:01 < ckotil> ya i heard that webgui is following 'WebGUI' Best Practices
23:01 < ckotil> we have that book
23:01 <@preaction> which just means that JT took a marker to my book, scratched out "Perl" and wrote "WebGUI" in its place
23:01 < ckotil> ya, i read that. haha
23:01 <@snapcount> well crap
23:01 <@snapcount> this way won't fix this
23:01 <@preaction> literally...
23:02 <@snapcount> time for plan bravo niner
23:02 <@preaction> i am the proud owner of the only copy of WebGUI Best Practices ;)
23:02 < ckotil> hehe
23:02 <@snapcount> he did the same thing to my book preaction 
23:02 <@preaction> snapcount: Roger, 555
23:02 <@snapcount> so nanny nanny boo boo
23:02 <@preaction> HARLOT!
23:02 <@snapcount> stick your head in...
23:02 <@snapcount> oh wait
23:02 <@preaction> 10 steps ahead of your!
23:02 <@preaction> something
23:02 <@preaction> and your mother smells of elderberries!
23:03 <+perlDreamer> and your father is a hedgehog
23:03 <+perlDreamer> come now, resorting to Monty Python?
23:03 <@snapcount> are you suggesting an african swallow...
23:03 <@preaction> maybe if they tied it to a string
23:03 <+perlDreamer> especially when everyone else in the channel is a Sam Kinnison fan....
23:03 <@snapcount> lol
23:03 <@preaction> kinnison sucks
23:03 <@preaction> there
23:03 <@preaction> i said it
23:03 <@snapcount> ok... I have to go figure out a different way to do this
23:04 <@snapcount> this way breaks way more than it fixes
23:04 <@snapcount> which is contrary to our doctrine
23:04 <@snapcount> all these damn helicopters and sirens don't make it any easier to think for sure
23:04 <@preaction> so i should write a test BEFORE i start fixing a bug, right?
23:04 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:04 <+perlDreamer> YES!
23:04 <+perlDreamer> aaaahhhhhhhhh!
23:04 <@preaction> now i get it
23:05 <@preaction> what if i require refactoring the code?
23:05 <+perlDreamer> write two tests
23:05 <+perlDreamer> strike that
23:05 <+perlDreamer> make sure that your tests give 100% code coverage for the current stuff
23:05 <+perlDreamer> then refactor
23:05 <@preaction> or just use Test::MockObject?
23:06 <@preaction> well, i'm thinking if the bug is in a www_* method, then we've got issues unless it can be refactored out somehow
23:06 <+perlDreamer> you can call www methods so long as you don't need to pass in a form param
23:06 <+perlDreamer> and there are ways around that, too, if need be
23:07 <@snapcount> ok... I need other opinions
23:07 <+perlDreamer> no, those pants don't make you look fat
23:07 <@snapcount> the problem I have is this
23:07 <+perlDreamer> I definitely had too much sugar for lunch
23:07 <+perlDreamer> sorry, dude
23:07 < greghacke> happens
23:08 <@snapcount> if you login and decide to purchase a "badge" for $100.00
23:08 <@snapcount> then click "Add to cart"
23:08 <@snapcount> then like a dummy, you just logout
23:08 <@snapcount> 10 years later
23:08 < greghacke> (which is VERY common)
23:08 <@snapcount> you log back in
23:09 <@snapcount> well, now the EMS has no idea that you have an old event chilling in the commerce cart
23:09 <@preaction> it shouldn't BE chilling
23:09 <@snapcount> indeed
23:09 <@snapcount> that's my opinion as well... it should die
23:09 <@snapcount> but how
23:09 <@snapcount> it's in the commerce cart now
23:09 <@preaction> don't carts have a lastUpdated date?
23:10 <@preaction> or users have a lastLoggedIn somekindofthing?
23:10 <@snapcount> and... the commerce system was designed to persist carts across logins
23:10 <@preaction> there should be a timeout though, say a month? or a week?
23:10 <@snapcount> well, even if it's two seconds
23:10 <@preaction> but that would still not fix it, because what if they log back in between
23:10 <@preaction> yeah
23:10 <@snapcount> it creates a problem
23:10 <@preaction> EMS will have to look for carts from that user?
23:10 <@snapcount> because the ems says, you've spent $0
23:11 <@snapcount> then they buy the same damn thing or something completely different
23:11 <@snapcount> and it says you've spent 100.00
23:11 <@snapcount> then they get to commerce checkout
23:11 <@snapcount> and there is extra stuff there and a different total
23:11 <@snapcount> of course they don't notice
23:11 <@snapcount> panic ensues
23:11 <@preaction> so the EMS is using a separate "temporary cart" of some sort?
23:12 <@snapcount> yes... it has to
23:12 <@snapcount> because of the way pricing is manipulated
23:12 <@preaction> oh god
23:12 <@snapcount> there are discounts, exceptions to this that and the other thing
23:12 <@preaction> discounts should probably have been implemented as separate Products
23:12 <@snapcount> if you bought 'a' while standing on your head you get 8.3% off of items 'c' and 'd' and 'f' is now free
23:13 <@snapcount> but 'b' costs an extra 1.00
23:13 <@preaction> ... wait. what?
23:13 <@preaction> wtf
23:13 <@snapcount> yeah
23:13 <@snapcount> it's insanely flexible
23:13 <@preaction> s/flexible// # fixed that for you
23:13 <@snapcount> the discounts are defined by the admin inside the EMS
23:14 <@snapcount> so I can't make a new module for each one
23:14 <@snapcount> we pushed way past what commerce was designed to handle
23:14 <@preaction> i see...
23:14 <@snapcount> so now we have problems like this
23:14  * perlDreamer coughs* rewrite
23:14 < greghacke> all kinds of wackiness in EMS
23:14 < greghacke> cart needs to empty at logout.
23:14 <@snapcount> we need to rewrite commerce first
23:14 <@snapcount> greghacke: yes
23:14 <@preaction> greghacke: it can't and it shouldn't
23:15 <@snapcount> but how
23:15 < greghacke> ok, the EMS cart should.
23:15 <@snapcount> well it should for Event ITems in the cart
23:15 <@snapcount> the EMS cart does
23:15 <@snapcount> let me state what needs to happen and we can focus on a solution
23:15 <@snapcount> the why is confusing and irrelevant now
23:15 <@snapcount> and I need a 'how' solution
23:16 <@snapcount> if there are 'Event' item types in a users shopping cart when they logout, or login
23:16 <@snapcount> they need to go away
23:16 <@snapcount> shopping cart being 'commerce cart'
23:16 <@snapcount> other item types like subscriptions, etc should stay
23:16 <@preaction> there's a runOnLogout workflow no?
23:17 <@preaction> or even runOnLogin?
23:17 <@snapcount> b/c the EMS can't pi$$ across the fence so to speak
23:17 <@snapcount> well, that's crap
23:17 <@preaction> yes
23:17 <@snapcount> this needs to be in the EMS
23:17 <@snapcount> not a system wide deal
23:17 <@snapcount> but I don't know it's possible
23:18 <@preaction> the EMS can't check the user's cart?
23:18 <@snapcount> sure it can
23:18 <@snapcount> but it doesn't know when someone clicks logout
23:18 <@snapcount> we want to leave it in there until they logout
23:18 < greghacke> agreed on logout vice login.
23:18 <@preaction> so the problem is that there are Events in a user's cart, but the EMS doesn't... do what to them?
23:19 <@snapcount> problem is that the EMS builds a "badge"
23:19 <@snapcount> applies funky pricing and arrives at a total
23:19 <+perlDreamer> can you add a trigger on op=logout to clean their cart?
23:19 <@snapcount> says "I'm done" here you go commerce
23:19 <@preaction> perlDreamer: what if they logout somewhere else?
23:19 <@snapcount> here's the total and a description
23:19 <+perlDreamer> logout == logout
23:19 <@snapcount> now the person doesn't pay
23:19 <@preaction> perlDreamer: he just shot down my workflow activity solution :(
23:20 <@snapcount> the only solution I see
23:20 <@snapcount> is if there were a hook to the commerce system that was triggered on login or logout
23:20 <@snapcount> and the hook could be trapped by an item plugin
23:20 <+perlDreamer> (13:19:24) perlDreamer: can you add a trigger on op=logout to clean their cart?
23:20 <@preaction> snapcount: could the EMS store them until they visit, say, EMS->www_checkout, and THEN passes the stuff to commerce?
23:21 <@preaction> no, that's what's happening and is the problem... crap
23:21 <@snapcount> don't worry
23:21 <@snapcount> it confuses me too
23:22 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: I didn't see that
23:22 <@snapcount> I think that's the only way to fix this but that would mean un-fixable until 7.4
23:22 <+perlDreamer> and 7.4 is our Commerce rewrite anyway
23:22 <@snapcount> and it's also likely a lot of work
23:22 <@snapcount> it is?
23:22 <@snapcount> I didn't know that
23:23 <+perlDreamer> I could be wrong
23:23 <@snapcount> I thought it was like 7.30
23:23 <+perlDreamer> rizen->mode('accounting') today, maybe he's still listening?
23:23 <@snapcount> doubt it
23:23 <@snapcount> the change required is to great to justify the fix
23:24 <+perlDreamer> the bugger is that we're starting to need Auth Workflows, like for login and logout
23:24 <@snapcount> it needs to go through a beta cycle b/c it could affect all of commerce
23:24 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:24 <+perlDreamer> wait
23:24 <@snapcount> so I think the solution is that we can't fix the bug right now
23:24 <@snapcount> which really sucks
23:24 <+perlDreamer> what about a scheduler plugin that checks session status and cleans out the necessary data?
23:25 <@snapcount> no good
23:25 <+perlDreamer> how come?
23:25 <@snapcount> if you logout, log right back in
23:25 <+perlDreamer> that's called a grace period :)
23:25 <@snapcount> can't run it ever 0.1 seconds
23:25 <@snapcount> yeah but it doesn't fix the problem
23:25 <@snapcount> it's a field dressing that will work sometimes
23:26 <@khenn> wow that was a tricky bug
23:26 <+perlDreamer> well, that gives you three options: full fix, partial fix and postponed fix
23:26 <@snapcount> I tried some hackery to kludge it and it broke a lot of things
23:26 <@snapcount> we need to fix it the right way in 7.4
23:26 <@khenn> incidentally, there is now a skipNotifications flag for assets that you can check for subscriptions to ensure that notifications aren't sent out when they shouldn't be
23:27 <@preaction> khenn: the edit branch one? nice
23:27 <@khenn> yeah
23:27 <@khenn> that was a bitch and a half
23:27 <@snapcount> wtf... why do I keep getting dropped from AIM
23:27 -!- Jamie [n=chatzill@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
23:27 <@rizen> i'm sort of here
23:27 <@rizen> what's up?
23:28 <@snapcount> the EMS bug...
23:28 -!- mode/#webgui [+o Jamie] by preaction
23:28 <@preaction> jamie better be vrby
23:28 <@rizen> yup
23:28 <@snapcount> I can fix it but I need logout and login to trigger a method in item plugins for anything in the commerce cart
23:28 <@snapcount> one or the other really
23:28 <@snapcount> doesn't matter which
23:29 <@snapcount> a hook basically
23:29 <+perlDreamer> preaction: how do you hash slice a hash ref?
23:30 <@preaction> deref
23:30 <@snapcount> seems like a change that shouldn't go into a stable release b/c of the potential for impacting so many other things
23:30 <@khenn> btw, bug list is below 30 now!
23:30 <@snapcount> nice!
23:30 <@preaction> perlDreamer: let me try some things, i think it's %{$hashref}{"element","key","keys"}
23:31 <@preaction> err.. @{$hashRef}
23:31 <+perlDreamer> greghacke: i have your bug and am fixing it now
23:32 <+perlDreamer> here it is:
23:32 <+perlDreamer> -               while (my $key = shift(@keys)) {
23:32 <+perlDreamer> -                       $options->{$key} = shift(@values);
23:32 <+perlDreamer> -               }
23:32 <@snapcount> uh
23:33 <@preaction> perlDreamer: perl -e'$hashref={a=>1,b=>2,c=>3}; print @{$hashref}{"a","b"}'
23:33 <+perlDreamer> thanks, dude!
23:33 <@snapcount> so rizen: do you agree that we should hold off on that functionality
23:33 <+perlDreamer> if $key is false, then the loop stops
23:34 <@preaction> perlDreamer: that loop is wery bad
23:34 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:34 <+perlDreamer> this one is better
23:34 <+perlDreamer> @{ $options }{@keys} = @values;
23:34 <+perlDreamer> It's even WGBP
23:34 <+perlDreamer> we need a gooeybot bug screen scraper
23:34 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot: bugCount
23:34 < gooeybot> perlDreamer: what?
23:34 <+perlDreamer> perlDreamer there are 30 bugs
23:34 <@preaction> actually, i enabled RSS for gooeybot, let's see how it works
23:35 <@snapcount> I guess for now I'll update the bug with all the info and move on for now
23:35 <+perlDreamer> 27 bugs
23:36 <+perlDreamer> 26.5, really.  The WSClient bug is waiting for the DonorWare team to get me a test SOAP server
23:36 < ckotil> thx for the help guys. have a good superbowl weekend.
23:37 -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit ["Go Colts"]
23:38 <+perlDreamer> 25.5
23:38 <+perlDreamer> the other SQLForm bug is a dupe.
23:40 -!- Jamie [n=chatzill@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]"]
23:41 <+perlDreamer> with regards to server names, what is Dusk?
23:41 <@preaction> our gateway, and donated hosting iirc
23:42 <+perlDreamer> Kristi mentioned it for the other SQLForm bug
23:45 -!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:45 -!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
23:46 <@snapcount> wow
23:46 <@snapcount> I just wrote a small novel
23:47 <+perlDreamer> can we talk about a bug I'm having problems with?
23:47 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/file-name-entered-into-attachment-field-disappears-when-previewing-content#AfnEfuCuhqzGtrnGRjj7aQ
23:48 <+perlDreamer> he just wants to save the name, not the actual attachment.
23:48 <@snapcount> ah that one
23:48 <+perlDreamer> yeah
23:48 <@snapcount> sure
23:48 <+perlDreamer> how in the world would we do this?
23:48 <@snapcount> I don't think you can set the value field for a file form field
23:48 <+perlDreamer> I didn't think so.
23:48 <+perlDreamer> So this is an RFE?
23:49 <@snapcount> I haven't looked it up, but if you can set value to prefill the field like we do with all the others
23:49 <@snapcount> that would work
23:49 <@snapcount> but I don't think you can do that
23:49 <@snapcount> not an RFE... no way to do it
23:49 <+perlDreamer> I didn't think so, because the file upload is a JS form control.
23:49 <@snapcount> unless you can use JS to make it happen
23:50 <+perlDreamer> yeah.  You'd have to create some JS thing which said:  "After you're built, insert these into yourself."
23:50 <@snapcount> but if that's the case, it would become an RFE because the upload form control does not have that functionality
23:50 <@snapcount> if it does, and we're simply not using it
23:50 <@snapcount> that's a bug
23:50 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@c-24-23-66-147.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
23:51 <@snapcount> my $0.02
23:51 <+perlDreamer> I always left shift your opinion value, snapcount
23:51 <@snapcount> I wish I could left shift my paycheck value =P
23:52 <@snapcount> every week
23:52 <+perlDreamer> cumulatively?
23:52 <@snapcount> absolutely
23:53 <+perlDreamer> this is an RFE.  The form control will allow you do display information, but only via Storage elements.
23:53 <+perlDreamer> no storage, no persistance, no values
23:56 <+perlDreamer> we're down to 6 WRE bugs, 3 PlainBlack.com bugs and 16 wG bugs
23:57 <@snapcount> excellent
23:57 <+perlDreamer> of the 16 bugs, 5 are out for user feedback or experimentation
23:58 <@snapcount> they should be closed then
23:58 <@snapcount> can you close bugs?
23:58 <+perlDreamer> yes, I am bug empowered
23:58 <@snapcount> make it so
23:58 <@snapcount> =)
23:58 <+perlDreamer> Ich herre and verstehen, mein Herr
--- Day changed Sat Feb 03 2007
00:01 <+perlDreamer> who has shell access to plainblack.com?
00:01 <@preaction> yo!
00:01 <+perlDreamer> check out /tmp and see if there'sa file in there called post.log for me, please?
00:01 <@preaction> that name-saving thing i want to take a look at later, so i'll bookmark it
00:01 <@preaction> perlDreamer: kk
00:03 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@c-24-23-66-147.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
00:04 <@preaction> perlDreamer: looks like about 13 pages of output, you want a copy sent to an e-mail address?
00:04 <+perlDreamer> yes, please
00:07 <@preaction> sents
00:07 <+perlDreamer> muchas
00:07 <+perlDreamer> Can one of y'all take a crack at Kristi's SQLForm bug?  I can't duplicate it on my dev box.
00:08 < greghacke> url for bug?
00:08 < gooeybot> i guess bug is that if there's a bunch of errors in spectre workflows
00:08 <+perlDreamer> It's needs to be a PB dev, internal site access and all that
00:09 < greghacke> still... I'd like to peek at it...
00:09 <+perlDreamer> It's at the top of the list
00:09 < greghacke> thx
00:09 <+perlDreamer> greghacke, there's another thing you could help with.  Do you have a firewall with proxy running?
00:10 <+perlDreamer> this bug
00:10 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/statistics-doesnt-take-into-account-proxy-settings#UQN7MzC3gBKWVUoY0Q76oA
00:10 <+perlDreamer> needs someone smarter than me to try and fix it
00:13 <+perlDreamer> preaction: thanks, but the log is clean.
00:13 <@preaction> sunuvva
00:13 <+perlDreamer> can you rerun your query from yesterday about dateSubmitted/dateUpdated for me and check for any hiccups in the last 14 hours?
00:14 <@preaction> k
00:16 <@preaction> khenn, paging khenn, are you working on the CS replies bug as well?
00:16 <@preaction> perlDreamer: looks like two of them, finding a pastebin
00:16 <@preaction> do you want epoch times or any other information?
00:17 <@preaction> perhaps a dump of those rows?
00:17 <+perlDreamer> assetIds, and dateSubmitted/dateUpdated data, please
00:17 <+perlDreamer> because here's the thing
00:17 <+perlDreamer> the log file didn't catch those
00:17 <+perlDreamer> which means we now know where the bug isn't
00:18 <+perlDreamer> fixing this would be a great way to start the weekend
00:18 <@preaction> you just want where dateSubmitted not equals to dateUpdated correct?
00:18 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:18 <+perlDreamer> especially the off by one kind
00:19 <@preaction> http://paste.biz/paste-440.html
00:19 <@preaction> looks like 1 and 2 seconds are both there
00:21 <+perlDreamer> I hate to pester you, but could I have epoch times instead?  that matches my log data format
00:22 <@preaction> sure
00:23 <@preaction> rofl one just happened
00:23 <+perlDreamer> this is nuts
00:23 <+perlDreamer> but it isn't a perl problem
00:23 <@preaction> reload the page
00:23 <@preaction> er
00:24 <@preaction> http://paste.biz/paste-441.html
00:26 <+perlDreamer> any reason you can think of why some Posts would have commit called on them, but not others?
00:27 <+perlDreamer> I haven't checked them all, but the 2 "bad" Posts never had commit called on them.
00:27 <+perlDreamer> and one good one did
00:27 <@preaction> where are the posts from?
00:28 <+perlDreamer> you mean, like which Forum?
00:28 <@preaction> yeah
00:29 <+perlDreamer> I don't know
00:29 <@preaction> i'll check, some may be "commit with approval", but i'm betting they're all in the support forums
00:29 <+perlDreamer> did you peek through the logfile?
00:29 <@preaction> hang on, closing a bug
00:38 < xdanger> preaction: didn't have the time yesterday to look at the upgrade&calendar... But I have a question...
00:38 < xdanger> is there a way to catch "Illegal division by zero at..." error on a whole script level? not just putting the part in eval {};
00:38 <@preaction> xdanger: paste the part you'd put in eval{}, this might have to be refactored
00:39 <@preaction> perhaps a subroutine call?
00:39 <@preaction> sub safe_divide() { eval { $_[0] / $_[1] } }
00:40 < xdanger> it's just: $var = sprintf("%.2f", $x / ($y + $z);
00:40 < xdanger> hmm... mayby I should do that..
00:41 <@preaction> so $var = sprintf("%.2f", _safe_divide("$x / ($y + $z))); sub _safe_divide { eval $_[0] }
00:41 <@preaction> or something
00:42 <@preaction> make sure to document it, for maintainability's sake
00:45 < xdanger> just that I have a script and I have to change many lines... and if I just do $var = sprintf("%.2f", eval { $x / ($y + $z) }); I have less writing =)
00:46 <@preaction> right, but never tell yourself "it'll only be used for one thing and then thrown away", some day you'll be like "HEY! didn't i write a script that does this almost?" and you'll want to be able to read it
00:46 <@preaction> perlbot laziness
00:46 < perlbot> The quality that makes you go to great effort to reduce overall energy expenditure. It makes you write labor-saving programs that other people will find useful, and document what you wrote so you don't have to answer so many questions about it. Hence, the first great virtue of a programmer.
00:47 <@preaction> i think i'm talking at an oblique angle to what you're talking
00:48 < xdanger> Yeah...
00:48 <@preaction> perlDreamer: i've got a new paste for you in a couple minutes. Posts with their URL and their parent's URL
00:48 <+perlDreamer> cool
00:48 <+perlDreamer> the good news is that it's happening frequently enough on PB.com that we should be able to find it and fix it
00:48 <+perlDreamer> the bad news is that I still have no idea where it is happening
00:49 < xdanger> I was just wondering if there was some way to "catch" that on a whole script level.. like "use weird_devision_by_zero_fix;" kinda solution ;)
00:49 <@preaction> how do i get the maximum revision date in a join?
00:49 < xdanger> subselect
00:49 <@preaction> xdanger: use fatals perhaps?
00:49 <@preaction> divide by zero is a runtime error
00:50 <@preaction> so you just have to check for it
00:50 <@preaction> you should've been checking for it the entire time :p
00:50 <+perlDreamer> assetData.revisionDate=(SELECT max(revisionDate) from assetData where assetData.assetId=asset.assetId and (assetData.status='approved' or assetData.tagId=".$session->db->quote($session->scratch->get("versionTag")).")
00:50 <+perlDreamer> that's close to the right answer
00:51 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot: maxRevisionDate is assetData.revisionDate=(SELECT max(revisionDate) from assetData where assetData.assetId=asset.assetId)
00:51 < gooeybot> i haven't a clue, perldreamer
00:51 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot: maxRevisionDate is this or that
00:51 < gooeybot> OK, perlDreamer.
00:51 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot: forget maxRevisionDate
00:51 < gooeybot> perlDreamer: I forgot maxrevisiondate
00:52 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot: maxrevisiondate is assetData.revisionDate=(SELECT max(revisionDate) from assetData where assetData.assetId=asset.assetId)
00:52 < gooeybot> no idea, perldreamer
00:52 <@preaction> it's moronic...
00:52 <+perlDreamer> it must be the embedded punctuation
00:56 < xdanger> it doesn't like you...
00:57 < xdanger> that must be it =)
00:57 <@preaction> http://paste.biz/paste-442.html <- of course it's near impossible to read...
00:58 <+perlDreamer> not isolated to any CS.  That's good.
00:58 <+perlDreamer> some Threads and some Posts.
00:59 <+perlDreamer> that means it's either in the Post or CS code
00:59 <+perlDreamer> and the logs say that $now stayed constant in the addRevision sub.  That means no perl strangeness
01:00 <+perlDreamer> I thought I was being over paranoid in my logging, now I wish there was more!
01:01 <@preaction> there's also no extra revisions of these assets, and you said the other night there's no call to update to update the appropriate columns, correct?
01:01 <@preaction> rather, three of them have only one revision, 5 of them have multiple revisions
01:01 <+perlDreamer> there are no literal calls to dateUpdated or dateSubmitted in the codebase, they might be masked in hashes
01:02 <+perlDreamer> where are you getting the revision data?
01:02 <@preaction> i did another query
01:02 <@preaction> without grouping by revisionDate
01:02 <+perlDreamer> well, that's actually good, too.
01:02 <@preaction> all the revisions have the same dateSubmitted and dateUpdated
01:02 <@preaction> it has to be something on the initial creation
01:03 <+perlDreamer> do you mean all subsequent revisions?
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01:03 <@preaction> yes
01:03 <@preaction> i'll paste it
01:03 <@preaction> http://paste.biz/paste-443.html
01:03 <+perlDreamer> let's start appending this to the bug
01:04 <+perlDreamer> for permanent records
01:05 <@preaction> all of these dumps?
01:05 <@preaction> or just distill the information?
01:05 <+perlDreamer> I'd say both
01:05 <+perlDreamer> others might see something that we're missing
01:33 <+perlDreamer> preaction: any ideas?
01:33 <@preaction> none whatsoever
01:34 <+perlDreamer> I'll send JT a new Post.pm with additional debugging code tonight or tomorrow.
01:36 < greghacke> JT still around?
01:36 <+perlDreamer> he's in channel, call him by nick
01:36 < greghacke> will in a bit.  he's in accounting mode I believe I heard earlier
01:41 <+perlDreamer> that's the fastest way to kill a hacker
01:41 <+perlDreamer> make him process numbers
01:42 <@preaction> it's the fastest way to interest me, i'll be writing programs to do it for me :p
01:42 <@preaction> i remember writing a spec for a system that would manage all my projects, including invoicing
01:43 <@preaction> never got around to tackling that mammoth
01:43 <+perlDreamer> can you build it into the Project Manager?
01:43 <@preaction> it is the project manager
01:43 <+perlDreamer> does it invoice?
01:43 <@preaction> i don't know if the PM does
01:43 <@preaction> i specced this for my own cms, Comm_Ctrl
01:44 <@preaction> was going to plugin to the Cart, so that I could take credit cards for services
01:51 <+perlDreamer> do  you know what the default cache timeout is for WebGUI::Cache?
01:53 <+perlDreamer> nm, there aren't any
01:53 <+perlDreamer> it's all size based
02:01 <+perlDreamer> preaction: can you please test the 7.3.8 to 7.3.9 upgrade script?  I'm getting an error.
02:01 <@preaction> sure
02:02 <@preaction> perlDreamer: damnit frank
02:02 <@preaction> damnit damnit damnit
02:02 <@preaction> i'll fix it
02:03 <@preaction> wait
02:03 <+perlDreamer> what's wrong with it?  The syntax looks okay to me.
02:03 <@preaction> he added code to the core
02:03 <@preaction> that expects an additional field
02:03 <@preaction> but that field isn't made when it needs to be
02:03 <@preaction> IT'S NOT EVEN ADDED AT ALL
02:04 <+perlDreamer> missing sub call
02:04 < greghacke> wow, I can feel the heat from here...
02:04 <@preaction> i've fixed it, testing
02:05 <@preaction> rofl, it breaks the update templates
02:05 <@preaction> give me 5 minutes
02:05 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I've got a workaround by moving that updateTemplates just before closing the session
02:05 <@preaction> that was the plan
02:06 <+perlDreamer> I'll commit this.
02:06 <@preaction> or rather, i was going to call it before finish(), so it's obvious what's happening
02:06 <@preaction> k
02:06 <+perlDreamer> which bug are you hacking on?
02:06 <+perlDreamer> the JS one?
02:06 <@preaction> i'm done
02:06 <@preaction> i'm getting ready for about 16 hours of sleep
02:07 <+perlDreamer> committed
02:07 < greghacke> omg, i'd pay money for 2 hours of sleep.
02:10 <@preaction> perlDreamer: verified, it works
02:10 <@preaction> thanks
02:10 < greghacke> rizen - i fired you out a file.
02:10 <+perlDreamer> thank _you. It's nice to check that mysql 4 still works with wG
02:11 <+perlDreamer> preaction: now go sleep!
02:11 < greghacke> da
02:11 <@preaction> mysql 4?
02:11 < greghacke> verily
02:11 <+perlDreamer> yawp
02:11 <@preaction> you? or me?
02:11 <+perlDreamer> me
02:12 <+perlDreamer> my dev box at $dayJob
02:12 <@preaction> ahh
02:12 <+perlDreamer> very old, very slow FC4 box
02:12 <@preaction> nice
02:12 <@preaction> how's its uptime/load avgs?
02:12 <+perlDreamer> we had a full site power outage 29 days ago
02:12 <@preaction> nm, my p90 / 32meg RAM would not run WebGUI
02:13 <+perlDreamer> it's very lightly loaded in any case
02:13 <+perlDreamer> P3 500MHz
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02:50 < greghacke> Good evening.
02:51 <+crythias> hi
02:51 < greghacke> kinda quiet here tonight.  everyone must have lives or something
02:52 < Radix__> mornin' - and no, why would you think that? :)
02:53 < greghacke> it's been quiet for 40 minutes.  like silent.
02:53 <+perlDreamer> preaction is sleeping, and I'm working on the winning WCC entry.
02:53 < greghacke> oh really?  gonna beat my EMS HowTo?
02:53 < greghacke> :-)
02:53 <+perlDreamer> what EMS HowTo?
02:54 < greghacke> writing an EMS how-to.
02:54 <+perlDreamer> I mean, I haven't seen one on the Wiki yet.
02:55 < greghacke> yeah :-(  it's more work than I initially thought...  every step is frought with "oh, crap - gotta cover that too)
02:55 <+perlDreamer> it's a big, big system
02:55 <+perlDreamer> okay, it's the weekend.
02:56 <+perlDreamer> I'm outta here
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05:44 < PedersenMJ> Well, I would say g'day, but Radix might beat me senseless for doing so.
06:10 < Hinrik> I'll say it for you: g'day.
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16:59 < greghacke> good morning, perlbot
16:59 < perlbot> Any morning you wake up is a good one.
16:59 < greghacke> good morning, gooeybot
16:59 < gooeybot> greghacke: i'm not following you...
17:06 < greghacke> anyone else on today?
17:06 < Radix__> no
17:07 < greghacke> Excellent.
17:18 < greghacke> <!-- <td height="23" align="left" valign="bottom"><div align="left"></div></td> -->
17:18 < greghacke> (the end of 129 should be - - > without the spaces)
17:19 < greghacke> wow, I am unintelligent today.
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18:42 < greghacke> what is TANSTAAFL?
19:02 < greghacke> Do we have and SQLForm gurus on this afternoon?
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20:22 < greghacke> if anyone from PB pops through, the forums aren't posting - made a post about an hour ago and it hasn't appearsd.  Looks like s spectre issue.
20:54 < greghacke> rizen: spectre seems down on plainblack.com , no CS is processing.
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23:32 <+perlDreamer> boy it's quiet today
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--- Day changed Sun Feb 04 2007
00:20 <+perlDreamer> does anyone know if we're going to switch to GPL v3 when it comes out?
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05:19 <@preaction> finally colloquy won't die when someone sends malformed DCC requests...
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05:20 <@preaction> of course, that doesn't mean my verdamnt internet connection is going to stay alive
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05:37 <+perlDreamer> okay you rowdies.  What are you up to?
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11:02 < wgGuest23>  i am new in WebGiu
11:02 < wgGuest23> any one can help me in installation of WebGui
11:02 < wgGuest23> thanks in advance
11:04 < wgGuest23> how to find the user installation guide?
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19:51  * perlDreamer feeds snapcount's crickets
19:51 <+perlDreamer> you guys must be hungry from all that chirping
19:51 <+perlDreamer> #webgui is a M-F kind of channel
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03:02 <+perlDreamer> rizen, are you around?
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04:43 < PedersenMJ> heya
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06:12 <+perlDreamer> hey, roy
06:12 <+perlDreamer> er, snapcount
06:12 <@snapcount> si
06:12 <+perlDreamer> I've been feeding the crickets
06:13 <+perlDreamer> Now that you're here, I'll let you watch them for a while.
06:13 <+perlDreamer> Chirpy is a little out of tune
06:13 <+perlDreamer> He may be sick
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17:19 < greghacke> Good morning.
17:19 < greghacke> Or should I say good day, all.
17:20 <+MrHairgrease> good afternoon ould be more appropriate in my tz
17:22 < greghacke> I could see that.  So, I'm becoming a SQLForm user.  Wow, it's powerful but someday i'll have to figure out how to bulk-upload data through it.
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> bulk upload?
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> you mean like the file pile?
17:24 < greghacke> well, i created a table with sqlform.  now i want to move 18000 records to it :-)
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> ah
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> i see
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> are these records already in a database?
17:25 < greghacke> yep.  MySQL5 even.
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> that's good
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> so why don't you just import that table?
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> and let the sqlform handle all the import stuff for you
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> (to some extend)
17:26 < greghacke> It's on my local machine and I am on a shared (agency hosting)
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> but don't you have accces to your db?
17:27 < greghacke> You mean my secondary database?  yes, but only through wG.
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> i see
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> the login is limited to the server on which yor wg site runs?
17:28 < greghacke> Correct.  (it's through pb on a agency hosting plan so the only access is through/via pb)
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> well in that case
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> you should create a script that you run locally
17:28 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> which fetches all the records from your db
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17:29 <+MrHairgrease> and then does from posts to the sqlfrom
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> or you could hire some monkeys 
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> to type it over manually =)
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> and hope for the best
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> =)
17:30 < greghacke> is what I thought.  probably going to a basic dedicated soon - once i get these records up I can finally go home.  at that point, i'll upgrade to a basic and have a bit more access.
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> creating the script would be real easy btw
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> just use lwp::simple or something like that
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> it can handle cookies
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> which you need in order to let your script login
17:32 < greghacke> thanks though.  confirmed what I thought.  it should be easy but i'm not script friendly today - too many pain meds to focus enough.
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> there's some code in the itransact plugin that the exact same trhing
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> except that it does some form post
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> involving credit cards stuff
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> rather that the sql form
17:33 < greghacke> for response from itransact responses
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> good luck\]
17:33 < greghacke> thanks, MrH.
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> np
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18:49 <@khenn> happy monday!
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20:01 <@khenn> wow, quiet today
20:01 <@khenn> no perlDreamer
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20:21 <+perlDreamer> has anyone seen preaction this morning?
20:23 < greghacke> speak of the devil...  I haven't seen preaction
20:23 <+perlDreamer> he was going to help me with a bug this morning
20:24 <+perlDreamer> I helped somebody on boards today who was using wG 5.1.2
20:24 <+perlDreamer> I assumed, falsely, that people using open source software tended to stay near the front
20:26 < greghacke> i would have assumed something like that as well.
21:01 < greghacke> definately quiet...
21:01 <+perlDreamer> yeah, what's up?
21:02 < greghacke> just odd.  used to seeing something come up and create conversation
21:11 <+perlDreamer> are you still in data normalization nirvana?
21:12 < greghacke> Oh, no.  I finally finished all 12000 records.  Now to get them up into a data table on my secondary database and run some training so I can go home.
21:12 < greghacke> finished I guess is polite.  there will be normalization for months as they trim dupicates but it's a start.
21:13 <+perlDreamer> do you have a wG install > v7.1 around?
21:14 < greghacke> i think so.  if not, i can install the wre.
21:14 <+perlDreamer> can you check to see if you have a SQLReport/Download template installed?
21:15 < greghacke> checking
21:15 < greghacke> I do not.
21:15 < greghacke> double checking
21:15 <+perlDreamer> that's what I was afraid of
21:16 < greghacke> I was correct.  I do not have SQLReport/Download template anywhere I can locate.
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> can i help out perhaps?
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> i have a svn copy handy
21:19 <+perlDreamer> of 7.1.0 specifically?
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> no
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> 7.3.9
21:19 <+perlDreamer> I think the 7.1.0 upgrade is broken
21:19 <+perlDreamer> it was supposed to install two new SQLReport templates
21:20 <+perlDreamer> and they don't exist on any of 3 different wG installs that I've seen
21:20 <+MrHairgrease> but it doesn't?
21:20 <+MrHairgrease> ok
21:20 <+MrHairgrease> i can check that on another site
21:20 <+perlDreamer> cool
21:20 <+MrHairgrease> went from 6.8.6 > 7.3.2
21:20 <+MrHairgrease> moment
21:20 <+perlDreamer> we're looking for a template with assetId SQLReportDownload0001
21:22 <+perlDreamer> I see the problem
21:22 <+perlDreamer> the template did not include the "create" flag, so the template uploaded
21:23 <+perlDreamer> tried to create a new revision of a non-existant template
21:23 <+MrHairgrease> ok
21:23 <+perlDreamer> that failed
21:23 <+MrHairgrease> can't find it
21:23 <+MrHairgrease> ah
21:26 <+perlDreamer> I guess the question now is how to fix it.
21:26 <+MrHairgrease> fix it in the 7.3.8->7.3.9 upgrade
21:27 <+MrHairgrease> don't think there's another way
21:27 <+perlDreamer> yeah, you're right
21:49 <+perlDreamer> I'll add the template to the 7.3.9 upgrade area, write up a blurb for the gotcha, and then close the bug
21:49 <+perlDreamer> thanks for your help, guys
21:50 < greghacke> pleasure.
21:50 <+MrHairgrease> np
21:50 <+perlDreamer> MrHairGrease, did you get my feedback in time to be useful?
21:51 <+MrHairgrease> yes
21:51 <+perlDreamer> good
21:51 <+MrHairgrease> didn't you get the thank you email?
21:52 <+perlDreamer> I haven't checked my gmail account yet today
21:52 <+MrHairgrease> oh ok
21:52 <+perlDreamer> but I will right after I come back from running
21:52 <+MrHairgrease> thanks anyway!
21:52 <+perlDreamer> you're welcome
21:52  * perlDreamer is running
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21:59 < khenn> hmm
21:59 < khenn> exit
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21:59 < khenn> wierd
21:59 < khenn> not getting ops for some reason
22:00 < khenn> Colin, are you around on IM?
22:01 < greghacke> he went running
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22:37 < ckotil> is there a reference for ErrorHandler::warn ?
22:37 < ckotil> i wanna know what warn[427] means
22:56 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: I think that's the line number that generated the warning
22:56 <+perlDreamer> you can find the error log format in the /data/WebGUI/etc/log.conf file
23:01 < ckotil> ah
23:03 < ckotil> hrm. i cant make any sense of it.
23:03 <+perlDreamer> can you paste the whole thing?
23:03 < ckotil> 2007/02/04 04:52:12 - WARN - globalnoc.webgui.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::warn[427] - The URL jumbomtu.html was requested, but does not exist in your asset tree.
23:04 <+perlDreamer> that was probably called in WebGUI.pm
23:04 < ckotil> Apache died for unapparent reason at 4:00 UTC that day, im trying to track down why. 
23:04 < ckotil> im hoping webgui isnt to blame.
23:04 <+perlDreamer> me, too :(
23:04 <+perlDreamer> We fixed over 50 bugs last week
23:04 < ckotil> thats awsome.
23:04 <+perlDreamer> although, I guess learning about existant bugs sooner is better than later
23:05 < ckotil> we had just migrated a site over to our webserver. www.nlr.net and they had some weird shit in there conf. i think thats to blame.
23:05 < ckotil> but havent found anything conclusive yet
23:09 <+MrHairgrease> ckotil
23:09 <+MrHairgrease> that error just means 
23:09 <+MrHairgrease> somebody went to yoursiet.com/jumbomtu.html
23:09 < ckotil> ok
23:09 <+MrHairgrease> and that page aparently does not exist in your assettree
23:09 < ckotil> i see that error all the time
23:09 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> favico.ico
23:10 < ckotil> its just that htis one time it had an error code with it
23:10 < ckotil> i thoguht it might be something else
23:10 < ckotil> something more serious
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> don't think so
23:10 < ckotil> web crawlers are usually the culprits
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> could be
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> but it's not a bad error
23:11 < ckotil> yah. its the equivalent of a 404 error
23:11 <+MrHairgrease> indeed
23:20 < ckotil> Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /gnoc/globalnoc/htdocs/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm line 564.
23:20 < ckotil> thats an odd one.
23:21 <+perlDreamer> that's probably a file without an extension
23:23 < ckotil> wierd thing was that i saw that error in apache's error_log , and not webgui.log
23:24 <+MrHairgrease> that's a perl warning
23:24 <+MrHairgrease> not a webgui warn
23:24 < ckotil> ah.
23:24 <+MrHairgrease> they do not cause problems in general
23:24 <+MrHairgrease> say
23:24 <+MrHairgrease> i have $a and $b
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> and I do $a.$b
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> and either one of em is undef
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> perl will throw that warning
23:25 < ckotil> ya i did some concatination in the custom workflow activity i created. im gonna debug it.
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> it's not a bug
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> probably
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> if you do my $a  ""
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> no more error
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> warning*
23:26 < ckotil> ok, that easy enough. thanks
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03:57 < Radix-wrk> Anyone around?
03:59 < Radix-wrk> What is the hierarchy that WebGUI uses for CS's - posts and threads - which one is which?  One is the initial message, and another is the replies attached to that message isn't it?
04:02 < Radix-wrk> The word thread tends to imply it's what holds multiple posts together - does that mean each post calls a thread it's parent, and the cs object is made of multiple threads?
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04:10 < PedersenMJ> good evening
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04:17 < perlDreame1> radix-wrk: did you get your question answered?
04:31 < Radix-wrk> no
04:33 < Radix-wrk> I think my understanding is right tho, but wanted to confirm.. just added a bit of detail to a RFE in the hope it'd be understood better.  http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/search-asset-returns-urls
04:33 < perlDreame1> CS's directly contain Threads.  Threads only contain Posts, Posts can contain Posts
04:34 < Radix-wrk> okey.. so that should work then
04:35 < perlDreame1> Yeah, The bummer is that you'd have to instantiate each Asset to find its parent
04:35 < perlDreame1> $asset->getContainer, or different specific methods
04:35 < perlDreame1> I almost implemented that RFE for fun last weekend
04:35 < perlDreame1> the instantiation will make it slow
04:36 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, I could understand that
04:36 < Radix-wrk> Would make search so much better though
04:36 < perlDreame1> It would be a nice feature
04:37 < perlDreame1> The nice thing about the way it works now is that you don't have to scan to find which asset contains your string
04:37 < perlDreame1> but the Find key works in most browsers
05:18 <@preaction> would it be possible to share user information between two wG instances by creating MySQL views?
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05:18 <@preaction> oh, and 75 minutes for three donorware site migrations has to be some sort of new record ;)
05:19 <@preaction> of course, it'll take them another 75 to verify everything's working aok
05:22 < Radix-wrk> well done :)
05:25 < perlDreame1> preaction: probably, but I didn't know you could build views across different databases.
05:25 < perlDreame1> of course, I know almost nothing about views anyway
05:25 <@preaction> me neither
05:25 <@preaction> maybe you can't
05:25 <@preaction> or maybe you can only if the user can access both databases
05:26 < PedersenMJ_> Unless mysql does some really weird things, you can't build views across databases.
05:26 < perlDreame1> it would be cool to have a MySQL guru come and help tune some of the db
05:27 < perlDreame1> I fixed another bug today, so we're holding the line
05:27 < perlDreame1> but I tried to dupe some of the other bugs, and I couldn't
05:27 < PedersenMJ_> Weird, wonder where the _ after my name came from.
05:28 <@preaction> you had a ghost
05:29 < PedersenMJ_> Ah, okay. I see it now. Not gonna worry about it tonight.
05:29 <@preaction> or just /nick PedersenMJ
05:30 -!- PedersenMJ_ is now known as PedersenMJ
05:31 < PedersenMJ> Man, it is so frustrating to realize how much I've forgotten about IRC.
05:33 < perlDreame1> what you've forgotten, I've yet to learn
05:34 < PedersenMJ> I used to be on it, a *long* time ago. Around 10 years now, I think.
05:34 < PedersenMJ> This chan is the first one that's made me willing to come back since then.
05:34 < perlDreame1> thanks, man
05:35 < PedersenMJ> Why? What'd I do?
05:36 < perlDreame1> You said that this channel made you willing to come back.  That's a compliment.
05:36 < perlDreame1> So I said thanks
05:37 < PedersenMJ> Ah, I suppose. Well, you're welcome. I actually enjoy coming here. I just wish I dared to open up the IRC ports at work.
05:39 < PedersenMJ> Wow, this I might consider getting: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820233042&name=Item-%23%3A-N82E16820233042
05:40 < PedersenMJ> I'm in the market for a decent flash drive. Anybody have any specific suggestion?
05:40 < Radix-wrk> Why not just get a dozen 2GB ones?  so much cheaper overall
05:42 < PedersenMJ> Planning on using it as a home directory for a live cd of some sort, so, 1 big drive is better.
05:52 < perlDreame1> what kind of yahoo doesn't install vim on a server?
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05:57 < PedersenMJ> There's only one time I didn't install vim on a server, myself, and that was on an old hp-ux server which ran the entire company, and could not, under any circumstances, be allowed to fail. I didn't want to have to pipe up and say "Yeah, I was tired of using vi, so installed vim, and it was during that install the server went down."
05:57 < PedersenMJ> That would have been a *very* bad conversation, I think :)
05:57 < perlDreame1> yes.  You must be a very careful admin.
05:58 < PedersenMJ> Nah, I'm usually pretty careless. But even I know enough to say "Nope, not gonna do it. Can't make me" when it's important enough.
06:04 < perlDreame1> preaction: I think we need a new rule
06:05 < perlDreame1> anything called get better return a copy of everything if you don't request a property by name
06:05 < perlDreame1> likewise, set will not die if you don't pass it a hashref
06:05 < perlDreame1> whaddya think?
06:05 <@preaction> get should always return a copy, no matter what
06:11 <@preaction> at least, imho
06:11 < perlDreame1> I agree
06:12 < perlDreame1> It made testing the AdSpace module easier
06:12 <@preaction> why wouldn't set die if you don't pass it a hashref?
06:12 < perlDreame1> because it's easy enough to override in the set method
06:12 <@preaction> but it should die, shouldn't it? if you don't give it anything to set, that's bad
06:13 < perlDreame1> If you don't give it anything to set, it shouldn't set anything.  Not die.
06:13 <@preaction> 60 minutes since i was done that DW still can't figure out what's wrong w/ their network
06:13 <@preaction> ahh
06:13 <@preaction> carp or cluck at least then?
06:13 <@preaction> die maybe not, but warn at least
06:13 < perlDreame1> my $properties = shift || {};
06:13 <@preaction> my $properties = shift || return; # :p
06:14 < perlDreame1> that works too
06:14 < perlDreame1> are you going to be around tomorrow?
06:14 <@preaction> yes, i'm on support tomorrow
06:14 < perlDreame1> I'm having some test coverage issues that I can't figure out.
06:14 <@preaction> roy left me a full plate though
06:14 <@preaction> so i'll be able to dip in and out until 5:00p, where i'll be open
06:15 < perlDreame1> hmmm... 5:00pm your time is 3:00pm my time.
06:15 <@preaction> i'm hoping to implement test-driven development for the DoS Alumni Q+A Live Wobject
06:15 <@preaction> if i can convince frank
06:16 < perlDreame1> do you mean at the API level or all the way up and down the stack?
06:16 <@preaction> just for the Wobject itself
06:16 < perlDreame1> right, API and/or User Interface?
06:24 <@preaction> probably mostly API
06:24 <@preaction> some scraping for the UI
06:24 < perlDreame1> I'd like to play with Selenium one of these days
06:26 <@preaction> this looks interesting indeed
06:26 < perlDreame1> yeah.  A scriptable browser would finally give us cross-browser regressable testing
06:33 < perlDreame1> would it be pointless to sell an ad to a website with no URL associated with it?
06:41 < perlDreame1> nm
06:41 < perlDreame1> I'm heading offline.
06:41 < perlDreame1> Goodnight, guys
06:41 <@preaction> have fun
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06:43 < xdanger> damn, there ain't no wre 0.7.2 for debian... dang...
06:45 < PedersenMJ> I've heard that 0.8 will do Debian, though.
06:46 < xdanger> 0.7.2 will do too.. I think.. just that nobody has build a ready to use binary of it...
06:47 < xdanger> I just didn't notice that before I started to upgrade my debian webgui server to newest of webgui =)
06:48 < PedersenMJ> Ah, see, I still do it all from source. And found a bug in testEnvironment.pl because of it.
06:48 < xdanger> just have to wait and see the build..
06:48 < xdanger> yay! build failed...
06:48 < xdanger> luckyly now, not an hour from now..
06:49 < PedersenMJ> yeah, that's not something you normally see, is somebody happy that the build failed.
06:53 < xdanger> does the build require some -dev packages on debian?
06:55 < xdanger> I had the wre setenviroment in my bash... started a fresh session and it's working...
06:55 < xdanger> well past the previous point
07:00 < PedersenMJ> Never did the wre, so I honestly don't know.
07:00 < PedersenMJ> I always did my own install. Next time, it's likely I switch to wre, though.
07:05 < xdanger> checking for zlib location... not found
07:05 < xdanger> checking whether to enable mod_deflate... configure: error: mod_deflate has been requested but can not be built due to prerequisite failures
07:05 < xdanger> nice
07:06 < PedersenMJ> Could be lots worse, though.
07:11 < xdanger> I'd like to do webgui .deb:s.. but I'm lazy...
07:12 < PedersenMJ> \Pondered doing that myself, but the gain for it would be pretty minimal, to say the least.
07:12 < xdanger> but think how c00l it would be to apt-get install webgui ;)
07:14 < Radix-wrk> I second that
07:15 < PedersenMJ> It would be amazingly cool. But if wre 0.8 handles it, and that should be on the horizon in the near future (my opinion *only*), what is there to gain?
07:19 < PedersenMJ> Yep, have ordered that 16G usb drive. Coupled with vmware and a knoppix dvd .iso, I can work on my own code on any laptop I choose. And honestly say afterwards that I never put my code on work computers.
07:19 < xdanger> I have a mac, I just install wre ;)
07:22  * PedersenMJ is using a mac, too. Problem is that 1G of ram just is not nearly enough with how much I do. Email, shell, im, browser, and vmware/parallels >1G.
07:22 < PedersenMJ> And that doesn't even cover the smaller apps I fire up during the day. *sigh* Must get more ram.
07:23 < xdanger> I have only 1.25G
07:23 < xdanger> but an old 1Ghz ibook
07:25 < PedersenMJ> anyway... passing out now. time for bed. Hopefully, tomorrow night will return to normal bedtimes.
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07:57 < xdanger> I'm starting to hate this building for an hour and then failing on some -dev library and have to start from the begining...
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17:15 < greghacke> guten tag - dobre dyen
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18:58 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: are you around?
18:58 <+perlDreamer> Yes, my master.
18:58 < greghacke> All hail snapcount
18:59 <@snapcount> I need a professional opinion
18:59 <@snapcount> see, now this is the attitude I like to see on channel
18:59 <@snapcount> =P
18:59 <+perlDreamer> never have less than 60 degress of phase margin
18:59 < greghacke> Always set border: 0; margin: 0
19:00 <@snapcount> never exceed the wattage rating on carbon resistors to let "the magic out"
19:00 <+perlDreamer> The fifth of the chord should always be played slightly sharp
19:00 <@snapcount> ok, so I'm fixing this CS shortcut bug
19:00 <+perlDreamer> spectre seems to be having problems on PB.com
19:00 <@snapcount> lovely
19:01 <+perlDreamer> okay, CS shortcut bug
19:01 <+perlDreamer> oh
19:01 <+perlDreamer> that
19:01 <+perlDreamer> I tried to dupe it and I couldn't
19:01 <@snapcount> I know what's causing it
19:01 <+perlDreamer> cool!
19:01 <+perlDreamer> what is it?
19:01 <@snapcount> but I don't know the best way to fix it
19:01 <@snapcount> the cause is our old friend
19:01 <@snapcount> cache
19:02 <@snapcount> see, the original cs defaults to a cache timeout of 1 hour
19:02 <@snapcount> so when you set the override to change threads displayed
19:02 <@snapcount> it still hits cache
19:02 <@snapcount> in the real cs, when you change this property, cache is purged
19:02 <@snapcount> but when you set a shortcut override, it is not
19:03 <@snapcount> but, I'm not sure how we can make a shortcut aware of other wobjects cache
19:03 <@snapcount> well
19:03 <@snapcount> private cache methods that is
19:04 <@snapcount> if only it were as simple as calling assets purgeCache method
19:05 <+perlDreamer> where does CS.pm interact with the Cache?
19:05 <@snapcount> _visitorCacheOk
19:05 <@snapcount> _visitorCacheKey
19:05 <@snapcount> well, those don't directly
19:06 <@snapcount> hold on
19:06 <+perlDreamer> this is a pretty far reaching bug, then
19:06 <+perlDreamer> since it's not only the CS that suffers from this
19:06 <@snapcount> exactly
19:06 <@snapcount> anything that caches a property that is not cleared by the assets purgeCache method
19:06 <@snapcount> which is perhaps the solution
19:06 <+perlDreamer> can we stow a flag that tells the bypasses the local Wobject's internal cache?
19:06 <+perlDreamer> bypassCacheDueToShortcut
19:07 <@snapcount> everything should be cleared by purgeCache no?
19:07 <@snapcount> otherwise it's wasting disk space
19:07 <+perlDreamer> sounds good to me, but since they don't it always makes me wonder if it's by design
19:07 <+perlDreamer> or accident
19:07 <@snapcount> so if saveShortcutProperties or whatever called the assets purgeCache method
19:08 <@snapcount> then as long as each asset cleaned up all of its cache in purgeCache
19:08 <@snapcount> it would be fixed for all
19:08 <+perlDreamer> does that mean the cache could be cleared if there were alternating views to a Wobject
19:08 <+perlDreamer> Wobject, Shortcut (clear), Wobject, Shortcut (clear again)
19:08 <@snapcount> I don't follow what you mean
19:09 <+perlDreamer> well, the cache is meant to store views by a user so they don't have to be regenerated again
19:09 <+perlDreamer> (sorry, that was pedantic)
19:09 <@snapcount> =)
19:09 <+perlDreamer> if the cache is cleared when the Wobject is viewed through a shortcut, it would affect the usefulness of the cache.
19:09 <@snapcount> no no
19:09 <@snapcount> don't clear it everytime it's viewed
19:10 <@snapcount> clear it everytime the shortcut overrides are saved
19:10 <@snapcount> cuz that means a property has essentially changed
19:10 <@snapcount> its only changed for that "view" of the asset
19:10 <@snapcount> so everyone will suffer each time there is an edit
19:10 <@snapcount> just like they do if you edit the original
19:11 <@snapcount> perhaps I'm clear as mud....
19:11 <+perlDreamer> no, I think I'm getting it
19:11 <@snapcount> which part is fuzzy?
19:11 <+perlDreamer> and I'm still partially confused because I tried to dupe that bug and couldn't
19:11 <@snapcount> oh I can tell you how to dup
19:11 <@snapcount> create a cs, commit it
19:11 <@snapcount> add two posts
19:11 <@snapcount> create a shortcut of the cs
19:12 <@snapcount> overrides tab, change maxthreads per page to 1
19:12 <@snapcount> the shortcut still shows 2 per page if admin is off
19:12 <@snapcount> clear cache or edit visitor cache timeout of cs to 1 second
19:12 <@snapcount> it works
19:13 <+perlDreamer> okay
19:13 <+perlDreamer> I must have skipped a step or something
19:13 <@snapcount> the cs handles this by clearing cache everytime editSave is called
19:13 <+perlDreamer> so the Shortcut should reach down into it's Asset and flush his cache.
19:14 <@snapcount> everytime the overrides save method is called
19:14 <@snapcount> because we have no way of knowing what properties are cached down below
19:14 <@snapcount> if any
19:14 < preaction__> morning gentlemen
19:14 <@snapcount> but the asset by the same token also has no knowledge
19:14 < preaction__> double underscore?
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19:15 <@snapcount> so it will just keep using cache because it doesn't know it's being viewed by a shortcut
19:15 <@snapcount> so find the flaws here
19:15 <+perlDreamer> 1) CS's purgeCache is broken
19:15 <@snapcount> I'm talking myself into it too quickly
19:15 <+perlDreamer> it sounds good
19:15 <+perlDreamer> this is the definition of OO here
19:15 <+perlDreamer> "You go and clear yourself"
19:16 <+perlDreamer> but purgeCache clears the wrong stuff
19:16 <@snapcount> yeah that's the idea
19:16 <@snapcount> you got it
19:16 <@snapcount> well, I'm not sure that overrideSave calls purgeCache on the shortcutted asset as well
19:16 <+perlDreamer> or rather, it doesn't clear enough
19:16 <@snapcount> so that's #2
19:17 <+perlDreamer> we can trace whether or not overrideSave calls purgeCache
19:17 <@snapcount> indeed
19:17 <@snapcount> ok... I'll see how this works
19:17 <@snapcount> bbiab
19:18 <@rizen> how's it going everybody?
19:18 <+perlDreamer> it's good
19:18 <@rizen> sweet
19:18 <+perlDreamer> Are you out of accounting purgatory yet?
19:18 <@rizen> yes, but a whole new kind of hell caught up with me on sunday
19:19 <+perlDreamer> you need to get out W2's and 1099's sometime soon
19:19 <@rizen> one of my closest friends died unexpectedly
19:19 <+perlDreamer> too
19:19 <+perlDreamer> oh, no!
19:19 <+perlDreamer> dude, I'm sorry
19:19 <+perlDreamer> what happened?
19:19 < greghacke> If you need anything, I believe we are all here for you.
19:19 <@rizen> she went into the hospital for a routine thing, and died due to complications
19:20 <@rizen> the shittiest part is that she was only 31
19:20 <+perlDreamer> that's young
19:21 < greghacke> definately.
19:21 <@rizen> and she has a 1 year old daughter
19:22 < greghacke> sometimes there is just nothing to say.  If you or they need anything, we are your community.
19:22 <@rizen> you are my community for something else, this is something i must face alone
19:23 <@rizen> anyway...i just stopped by the irc channel to let you guys know i won't be here much this week, if at all
19:23 <+perlDreamer> even without this community, you're not alone.  You have Sarah.
19:23 <+perlDreamer> hang tough, dude, we'll be thinking of you
19:24 <@rizen> thanks. have a good week. ttyl
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19:25 <@snapcount> well it looks like this patch fixes the problem
19:25 <@snapcount> only two lines of code required
19:25 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: cool!
19:25 <+perlDreamer> want to fix another quick one?
19:25 <@snapcount> were you able to duplicate it?
19:25 <+perlDreamer> no
19:25 <@snapcount> still no?
19:25 <+perlDreamer> but this is on Mozilla 1.4 still
19:26 <+perlDreamer> I don't trust it for caching stuff
19:26 <@snapcount> well this should all be server side cache
19:26 <@snapcount> now I'm skeptical of this
19:26 <+perlDreamer> Yeah, I followed bopbop's steps exactly and I had no problems with the override taking effect.  But this old browser is very suspect.
19:27 <+perlDreamer> sometimes it caches when it shouldn't
19:27 <@snapcount> so everytime you change the override property for maxthreads, the shortcut immediately shows the correct number with admin off?
19:27 <+perlDreamer> with everytime being 1, yes
19:28 <@snapcount> you don't have cache disabled in the config file do you?
19:28 <+perlDreamer> no, type = fileCache and disableCache=0
19:29 <@snapcount> well foo
19:29 <@snapcount> can you try it on demo?
19:29 <+perlDreamer> I only have 1 browser here at $dayJob
19:29 <@snapcount> I want to make sure I'm not fixing something that isn't broken
19:29 <+perlDreamer> I'll try to set it up on a demo site.
19:30 <@snapcount> so to go a bit off topic
19:30 <@snapcount> my first clinical is in 10 days
19:31 <@snapcount> to say I'm nervous would the understatement of all time
19:31 <+perlDreamer> what is a clinical?
19:31 <@snapcount> first time you get to practice on real humans
19:31 < greghacke> it's fun!
19:32 <@snapcount> to not sugar coat things
19:32 <@snapcount> that's essentially what it is
19:32 <+perlDreamer> I thought you were studying business?
19:32 <@snapcount> that's this fall
19:33 <@snapcount> I'm trying to get into a fancy pants private university
19:33 <@snapcount> so I decided to do this to better man kind
19:33 < greghacke> my orto teaches at OSU Medical.  He has me come in and work with students for clinicals - they run the gamut on me and tell me how bad off i am.  it's fun!
19:33 <@snapcount> save the world!!!!!
19:33 < greghacke> where you going?
19:33 < greghacke> I did the save the world deal (no cheerleaders though)  it can be painful.
19:34 <@snapcount> Stetson University is where I'm trying to get in
19:34 <@snapcount> I'll be in debt up to my (bleep)
19:34 <+perlDreamer> bleep is deep
19:34 <@snapcount> about 30K / year
19:34 < greghacke> ver' deep.
19:34 <@snapcount> only two years left though
19:35 < greghacke> looks nice though.  i spent a lot on college too.
19:36 <+perlDreamer> we need a library of packages for easily debugging wG
19:36 <+perlDreamer> I'm starting to get tired of making Yet Another Asset
19:36 <@preaction> snapcount: is there any debug code left on gama's server about their listserv bugs (the outlook sending replies as attachments thing?)
19:37 <@snapcount> not sure home skillet
19:37 <@preaction> i'll insert my own then
19:37 <@snapcount> rizen has been running that circus as of late
19:37 < greghacke> cicrcus.  heheh.
19:37 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: when we move to exception handling it will be very easy
19:37 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:38 <+perlDreamer> that would have caught the template insertion bug I fixed yesterday
19:38 <@snapcount> cause we can have different types of exception objects
19:38 <@snapcount> so one for debug
19:39 <@snapcount> so could you dup on demo? or still no dice
19:39 <+perlDreamer> still trying to set it up
19:39  * snapcount learns some patience
19:39 <+perlDreamer> it's an old browser running on a 300 MHz UltraSparc behind a 1MHz pipe
19:40 <+perlDreamer> It takes 45 seconds to add a Post.
19:40 <@snapcount> I must admit that all of the grotesque human disfiguration has evolved from shear terror and nausea to fascination
19:40 < greghacke> patience, grasshopper
19:40 <@snapcount> but it's all in the book so I'm sure the real deal will start the cycle all over again
19:40 < greghacke> "the book"?
19:41 <@snapcount> and my clinical dates are on days that the population of the city increases from 60,000 to about 500,000
19:41 <@snapcount> so lots of trauma likely
19:41 < greghacke> spring break?
19:41  * perlDreamer makes a shortcut
19:41 <@snapcount> greghacke: "Emergency: Care and Transportation of the Sick and Injured"
19:42 <@snapcount> National Law of the Land for EMTs
19:42 <@snapcount> bike week
19:42 <@snapcount> race week
19:42 <@snapcount> and spring break
19:43 < greghacke> Oh, I know it.  I played that for a bit but we got to throw out the manual (the army could care less about a number of items in the book)
19:43 <@snapcount> our instructors keep telling us
19:43 <@snapcount> there's the way you'll be taught and the way you'll do it
19:44 <@snapcount> but every job is like that
19:44 <@snapcount> there's the book way and the way it's done in the real world
19:44 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: sweet
19:44 < greghacke> only rule I hever found to stick through is "only point the weapon where you don't mind the bullets going"
19:44 <@snapcount> that sounds like a good one
19:44 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: here's the site http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1170783047_18/home
19:44 <@snapcount> we don't get weapons
19:45  * snapcount puts on a pouty face
19:45 <+perlDreamer> standard auth
19:45 <@snapcount> how many posts should I see on the home page?
19:45 <+perlDreamer> 7
19:45 <@snapcount> I see four
19:45 < greghacke> I see 4.
19:46 <@snapcount> is that the shortcut or the real cs?
19:46 < greghacke> in FF 2.0.0.1
19:47 <+perlDreamer> that's the real one
19:47 <+perlDreamer> shortcut is on the getting started page
19:48 <@snapcount> negative ghost rider, the pattern is full
19:48 <@snapcount> did you commit ze shortcut?
19:51 <@preaction> ... so Microsoft outlook is sending XML as HTML 4.0 Transitional...
19:55 < greghacke> well...  that depends on which version of outlook you use.
19:56 <@preaction> nevermind, it's using some of those wonderful conditional comments to block the xml from those mail agents that would not understand
19:57 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: yes, it's committed
19:58 <+perlDreamer> and I see what I may have missed
19:59 <+perlDreamer> I turned off admin and saw that the shortcut still showed 4
19:59 <+perlDreamer> I didn't go back and check the original
19:59 <@snapcount> so you duped it?
19:59 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:59 <@snapcount> even on dev?
19:59 <@snapcount> or just demo
19:59 <+perlDreamer> just demo
20:00 <+perlDreamer> If you want me to dupe it on dev it will take a while
20:00 <@snapcount> it's ok
20:00 <@snapcount> I'm committing what I have
20:00 <@snapcount> if you can test the fix just for good measure that would be awesome
20:00 <@snapcount> but it's not a big deal
20:00 <+perlDreamer> I might deploy the asset from the demo and try it later today
20:01 <+perlDreamer> is there any chance I can get an updated post.log/colin.log from PB's /tmp directory?
20:01 <@snapcount> sure
20:01 <@snapcount> how are we sending it to you
20:02 <+perlDreamer> via email to my gmail account
20:13 <@preaction> greghacke: i'm about to try again on the www_titangames_com extra databases
20:13 < greghacke> thanks.  i sent you a few copies.  not sure which is best.
20:13 <@preaction> imma try the small one first
20:13 < greghacke> good idea ;)
20:15 < greghacke> went crawling through for data
20:15 < greghacke> integrity issues
20:16 <@preaction> the mysqldump headers are missing, but i wouldn't think that would cause a problem
20:16 <@preaction> let me givver a go first, then if it fails we can decide how to proceed
20:17 < greghacke> excellent.  thank you.
20:21 <@preaction> greghacke: yeah, i'm going to need the dumps with the full mysqldump headers
20:21 <@snapcount> the problem yesterday was that the file abrubtly ended
20:21 <@snapcount> in the middle of an insert statement
20:21 <@snapcount> fyi
20:21 < greghacke> ok.  passing them to doug@... now
20:21 <@preaction> wait
20:21 <@preaction> let me try one more thing
20:23 <@preaction> got it
20:23 <@preaction> it's all there
20:25 < greghacke> I guess that does it.  now to bust through and get my code in place.  thank you muchly
20:31 < greghacke> now to get SQLForm to run against it.
20:34 < greghacke> if you get a chance, can you pop through and see if I am getting an error somewhere.  if I attempt to create an sqlform on the tgproducts table fails.
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20:36 <+perlDreamer> has anyone tried out a redirect asset recently?
20:37 <@preaction> yes
20:37 <@preaction> doesn't work like it used to, because how it used to work was apparently a bug
20:37 <+perlDreamer> so how is it supposed to work now?
20:38 <@preaction> if you go directly to that URL, it redirects you to another URL
20:38 <+perlDreamer> if you view it on a page, it doesn't
20:38 <+perlDreamer> hm
20:38 <@preaction> that's not directly that URL
20:38 <+perlDreamer> right
20:38 <@snapcount> that's retarded
20:38 <@preaction> iirc, it was causing more problems the way it was
20:38 <@snapcount> imo
20:39 <+perlDreamer> I gotta go with the Floridian on this one
20:39 <@preaction> people would add multiple redirects to a single page, then what?
20:39 <+perlDreamer> first one wins?
20:39 <+perlDreamer> last one wins?
20:39 <@snapcount> js message: "You're retarded"
20:39 <@preaction> a redirect should have no physical presence, and should only affect the URLs it's configured to affect
20:40 <@snapcount> actually a real solution would be to have it check for the existance of a redirect when it's added
20:40 <+perlDreamer> if scalar $self->getParent->getChildren(["children"],{getOnlyRedirects}) > 1 then croak "Only 1 per page, please".
20:40 <+perlDreamer> now that was scary
20:40 <@snapcount> yeah
20:40 <@snapcount> kind of like how sqlform does
20:41 <@snapcount> the real use to a redirect in wG was you could have /home, work on it as admin but redirect everyone else
20:42 <@preaction> uh... so version tags don't fix that?
20:42 <+perlDreamer> they do now
20:42 <@snapcount> yeah they do
20:42 <@snapcount> I'll think of another reason hold on
20:43 <+perlDreamer> Everyone was told that you couldn't have bare assets as pages anymore
20:43 <+perlDreamer> Layouts are recommended everywhere
20:43 <+perlDreamer> but that breaks the redirect asset
20:43 <@snapcount> you could redirect based on a group
20:43 <+perlDreamer> might as well remove it from the system.
20:43 <@snapcount> if who can view is "farkers" then farkers goto /home/farkers instead of /home
20:43 <@snapcount> but everyone else sees home
20:44 <+perlDreamer> that sounds like the WebGUI chains thing
20:44 <@snapcount> but you could do that with a redirect before
20:44 <@snapcount> now you would get perms error
20:45 <@snapcount> but the #1 reason is b/c that's the way it used to work and change is bad and everything should always be the same always just because
20:45 <@snapcount> .com
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20:46 <@preaction> snapcount: that webstats4.plainblack.net/?config=www.cascadesystems.net issue remains after rebuilding the stats... i don't have a damned clue
20:46 <@preaction> the only thing i can see is to generate the stats for this site as a cronjob
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20:49 <@snapcount> ahh grasshopper
20:49 <@snapcount> still fixing the symptom
20:49 <@snapcount> it may be a good stop gap
20:50 <@snapcount> but we need to know why it's happening and hopefully someday a fix
20:50 <@preaction> i still remain a "cure the symptom cure the disease" type of person
20:50 <@snapcount> what if it suddenly happens to everyone?
20:50 <@preaction> then we're fucked
20:50 <@snapcount> exactly
20:50 <@snapcount> find the root cause is my advice
20:50 <@preaction> so we run the cronjob for everyone
20:50 <@snapcount> do with it as you will
20:50 <@snapcount> =)
20:51 <@snapcount> you're fun to work with
20:51 <@snapcount> I worked with guys like you in engineering too
20:51 <@preaction> i'm worried about where you're going with this :p
20:51 <@snapcount> stuff would burn up and they would change to ceramic resistors
20:51 <@snapcount> it was great fun
20:51 <@snapcount> "oh... throw a 20W wire wound on there..."
20:52 <@preaction> i'm very action-oriented, trial-and-error
20:52 <@snapcount> good times
20:52 <@preaction> this works? use it!
20:52 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: never exceed the wattage rating on carbon resistors to let "the magic out"
20:52 <@preaction> doesn't work now? throw it out!
20:52 <@snapcount> of course, the resistors stopped incenerating
20:52 <@snapcount> and instead the traces seperated from the PWB
20:52 <+perlDreamer> now that's funny
20:52 <@snapcount> I thought so
20:53 <@preaction> for those who know what the hell you're talking about
20:53 <@preaction> jargon
20:53 <@snapcount> If only you could "let the smoke out" of software some how
20:53 <@preaction> dude, do not open awstats.pl, trust me
20:53 <+perlDreamer> he's saying that masking symptoms only allows bad design to continue
20:53 <@preaction> you will need eye bleach
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20:53 <@snapcount> yeah I looked
20:53 <@snapcount> it's a rats nest
20:53 <+perlDreamer> kind of like why we need to start using PBWG about 1.5 years ago
20:54 <@snapcount> more like 10 years ago
20:54 <@preaction> we can't fix the core of awstats :p
20:54 <@snapcount> when it was but a twinkle in JTs eye
20:54 <+perlDreamer> perltidy?
20:54 <@preaction> could try... i swear it'll vomit on it
20:54 <@snapcount> vomit is cool
20:54 <+perlDreamer> actually, vomit is about 95 degrees F
20:55 <+perlDreamer> that's quite warm
20:55 <+perlDreamer> back to EMS school, dude
20:55 <+perlDreamer> either that, or hold a 1 year old for long enough
20:55 <+perlDreamer> :)
20:56 <@snapcount> heh
20:56 <@snapcount> the coolest part is learning to not be distracted
20:56 <@snapcount> they get all dressed up with makeup
20:56 <@snapcount> have an axe in the forehead
20:57 <+perlDreamer> that will make your mascara run
20:57 <@snapcount> we show up and do an assessment and we have to ignore the axe
20:57 <@snapcount> there are more things that are of higher importance
20:57 <@snapcount> that's hard to do
20:57 <+perlDreamer> like people who are still living?
20:57 <@snapcount> or a compound femur fracture
20:58 <@snapcount> yeah it's all makeup and silicon
20:58 <@snapcount> or latex even
20:58 <@snapcount> sheesh
20:58 <@snapcount> fake blood
20:58 <@snapcount> and they moan and scream
20:58 <@snapcount> pretty good at acting really
20:59 <@snapcount> all you can think about is "Good God, his femur is poking out"
20:59 <@snapcount> and then they fail you because the person is breathing 6 times a minute and going into shock
20:59 <@snapcount> while you bust out the traction splint
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21:00 <@snapcount> anyways
21:00 <@snapcount> next bug for me
21:00 <@snapcount> =)
21:01 <+perlDreamer> try to tackle the statistics/proxy one
21:01 <+perlDreamer> it stumped me
21:04 <@snapcount> does an icalendar feed generate an ics file?
21:04 < ckotil> yes
21:04 <@snapcount> ok cool
21:04 <@snapcount> found one to test with me thinks
21:04 < ckotil> http://maintcal.grnoc.iu.edu/cals/igig_sched.ics
21:05 < ckotil> http://indiana.gigapop.net/ingigapop/support/maintenance-calendar/maintenance-calendars.html
21:05 < ckotil> more to test if you want
21:05 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: know any good SOAP servers?
21:05 < ckotil> i do not. i can ask around my group tho.
21:06 <+perlDreamer> thanks
21:06 < ckotil> soap::lite
21:07 <+perlDreamer> uh, I mean a public SOAP server that I could test the WSClient against
21:09 < ckotil> yeah, we have one.
21:09 < ckotil> im getting the url now.
21:09 < ckotil> http://noc.net.internet2.edu/i2network/network-status/visible-network/visible-network-toolset.html is the data
21:09 < ckotil> link http://vn.grnoc.iu.edu/Abilene/raw-data.html
21:10 <+perlDreamer> thanks!
21:11 < ckotil> np
21:12 <@preaction> snapcount: i'm getting somewhere on this verdamnt thing!
21:12 <@snapcount> eh?
21:13 <+perlDreamer> ++preaction
21:13 <+perlDreamer> preaction has grokked awstats.pl
21:14 <@preaction> it works without the frameset, the main page
21:14 <@preaction> http://webstats4.plainblack.net/?config=www.cascadesystems.net&framename=mainright <- works fine
21:15 <@snapcount> nice
21:15 <@snapcount> I found the problem with calendar feeds
21:16 <@snapcount> Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Workflow::www_runWorkflow. Root cause: Undefined subroutine &WebGUI::DateTime called at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/CalendarUpdateFeeds.pm line 215.
21:16 <@snapcount> that's part of it anyway I'm guessing
21:17 <@snapcount> oh yeah
21:18 <@snapcount> that would definitely cause a problem
21:18 <@preaction> i must not've updated SVN, and I can't right now because i'm fixing another (unreported) part of the calendar
21:20  * perlDreamer goes afk for a while
21:21 <@snapcount> and yahtzee
21:22 <@snapcount> I see we're doing some work tomorrow
21:22 <@snapcount> the 7th on the GIGAPOP
21:22 <@snapcount> one problem with this though preaction 
21:22 < ckotil> yup
21:23 <@snapcount> if the calendar is uncommitted
21:23 <@snapcount> this will blow up
21:23 <@snapcount> because the calendar object fails to instanciate
21:23 <@preaction> the workflow should check for that then
21:23 <@snapcount> line 304
21:24 <@snapcount> I'll add an error message
21:27 <@preaction> ... it works every time as long as i have apache use the DirectoryIndex instead of explicitly specifying "awstats.pl"
22:07  * snapcount is in SQL hell again
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22:47 <@khenn> afternoon
22:47 <+perlDreamer> howdy
22:47 <@khenn> Colin, can you pop into IM for a bit?
22:49 <+perlDreamer> sure
22:50 <@khenn> grassy ass
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23:28 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: you still in the netherworld of SQL?
23:30 <@snapcount> no I fixed it
23:30 <+perlDreamer> cool
23:30 <+perlDreamer> we need exceptions
23:30 <@snapcount> it was the matrix bug
23:31 <@snapcount> huh?
23:31 <@snapcount> who is we and what do they need?
23:31 <+perlDreamer> we need to be able to throw and catch exceptions in wG.
23:31 <@snapcount> sure
23:31 <+perlDreamer> I'm thinking of the SQL Form edit bug
23:31 <@snapcount> oh yeah
23:32 <@snapcount> I have a temporary solution if you want to put it in while I'm at class
23:32 <@snapcount> so simple it's genius
23:32 <+perlDreamer> sure
23:32 <+perlDreamer> what is it?
23:32 <@snapcount> add a param to DatabaseLink->getList
23:32 <@snapcount> that only returns valid connections
23:32 <+perlDreamer> is there a valid connection checker in there somewhere?
23:32 <@snapcount> then in that method, make the connection to each one and test for undef
23:32 <@snapcount> no
23:33 <@snapcount> just do WebGUI::DatabaseLink->new($session, $id);
23:33 <@snapcount> it will return undef if it's not
23:33 <@snapcount> following so far?
23:33 <+perlDreamer> yes and no
23:33 <+perlDreamer> getList does not return objects
23:33 <@snapcount> yep
23:34 <@snapcount> so if it's not defined
23:34 <@snapcount> delete $list->{$id};
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> roy
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> that prolly won't work
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> b/c wg::bdl->new
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> will throw a fatal
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> if i'm correct
23:35 <@snapcount> it throws a warn
23:35 <@snapcount> and returns undef
23:35 <@snapcount> at least in HEAD it does
23:35 <+MrHairgrease> ok
23:36 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: so, in SQLForm when he builds the list
23:36 <@snapcount> pass the new param
23:36 <@snapcount> and his error handling will work as it does now
23:36 <+MrHairgrease> i thoiught i wdidn't work b/c WebGUI::SQL->connect($self->session,$dsn,$username,$identifier); throws fatal
23:36 <@snapcount> so WebGUI::DatabaseLink->getList($session,{onlyValidConnections=>1});
23:37 <+perlDreamer> MyHairGrease: DatabaseLink wraps that inside an eval to catch that very problem.
23:37 <@snapcount> crap
23:38 <@snapcount> yeah but I don't think it works
23:38 <@snapcount> and it's not DatabaseLink->new, it's WebGUI::SQL->connect we have to use to test the connection
23:38 <@snapcount> for now we need to fix the way I originally suggested
23:39 <@snapcount> until we have exception handling
23:39 <+MrHairgrease> see...
23:39 <@snapcount> change WebGUI::SQL->connect to not throw a fatal
23:39 <+MrHairgrease> the prblem is that the fatal gets thrown by connect
23:41 <@snapcount> and change WebGUI::Session->db to throw a fatal if SQL->connect returns undef for connectionId 0
23:41 <@snapcount> that way we can trap errors like we talked about
23:42 <@snapcount> and we'll still have a fatal if the webgui database is borked
23:42 <@snapcount> or the connection to it
23:42 <@snapcount> clear as mud?
23:43 <@snapcount> echo
23:43 <@snapcount> ping pong
23:43 <+perlDreamer> yes?
23:43  * snapcount makes the funny noises a modem makes
23:43 <@snapcount> heheh
23:43 <@snapcount> yes is a question?
23:44 <+perlDreamer> wasn't sure if you were talking to me or to MrHG
23:44 <@snapcount> oh
23:44 <@snapcount> this is for you
23:44 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll try to wrap up with Frank, then go back and read what you wrote.
23:44 <@snapcount> ok
23:44 <@snapcount> I'll restate everything so it makes more sense
23:44 <@snapcount> in order
23:44 <@snapcount> =)
23:45 <@snapcount> change WebGUI::Session->db to throw a fatal if WebGUI::SQL->connect returns undef
23:46 <@snapcount> b/c that method gets the default db connection and should throw a fatal if it doesn't work
23:46 <@snapcount> change WebGUI::SQL->connect  to not throw a fatal like it does now... it should be a warning
23:47 <@snapcount> now, we can add the parameter to WebGUI::DatabaseLink to validate the connections 
23:47 <@snapcount> and add the code to do so
23:48 <@snapcount> i.e. delete $list->{$id} unless WebGUI::SQL->connect(...);
23:48 <+perlDreamer> okay
23:48 <+perlDreamer> any side effects to the SQL change?
23:48 <@snapcount> I don't see any
23:48 <@snapcount> we still get fatals for the webgui db
23:48 <@snapcount> and we can trap errors if other db links are fooked
23:49 <+perlDreamer> in order to test this, I need to create a DatabaseLink with bad DSN and make sure it dies well?
23:49 <@snapcount> lastly, the sql form edit method calls DatabaseLink->getList so change it to pass in your new param
23:49 <@snapcount> yeah
23:50 <@snapcount> just create one with some properties
23:50 <@snapcount> and no db
23:50 <@snapcount> or for an exisiting db with wrong credentials
23:50 <@snapcount> then you can fix it quick to test it when all is correct
23:51 <+perlDreamer> so this fix will prevent the DatabaseLink from being listed in the drop down, but will not prevent someone from breaking a DatabaseLink that used to work fine.
23:52 <@snapcount> true
23:52 <@snapcount> but it doesn't do that now either
23:52 <@snapcount> unless you count the fatal thrown when something tries to use it as preventing it
23:52 <@snapcount> we could easily do an RFE for the DBList form control that shows a status after you add this little nugget as well
23:53 <@snapcount> or the operation rather
23:53 <+perlDreamer> yeah, the operation would be better
23:53  * perlDreamer hums the Salvation through exception song
23:54 <@snapcount> to do that though would require to test the connections in the operation
23:54 <@snapcount> which is code duplication
23:54 <@snapcount> eek
23:54 <+perlDreamer> yeah
23:54 <@snapcount> well, you understand where I'm going with it all
23:54 <@snapcount> perhaps you can implement it cleaner
23:54 <+perlDreamer> getValidListOfObjects is our end goal, but we need to have a bugfix for now
23:55 <@snapcount> I think we will see some exception handling soon... maybe even 7.4
23:55 <@snapcount> once it's in place globally and we have the objects, etc
23:55 <@snapcount> this will all be redone anyway
23:56 <@snapcount> oh
23:56 <@snapcount> the other thing too
23:58 <@snapcount> if the handle returned by SQL is undef when something is borked
23:58 <@snapcount> since the fatal is gone
23:58 <@snapcount> you can test for that in the place where the sql form tries to use the connection as well
23:59 <@snapcount> which will handle the case of someone breaking the link after the fact
23:59 <@snapcount> thought of a problem with this
23:59 <@snapcount> poop
--- Day changed Wed Feb 07 2007
00:00 <@snapcount> all of the code that uses the connections expects that their is always a valid object
00:00 <@snapcount> none of them test it
00:01 <@snapcount> sigh*
00:01 <@snapcount> I'm thinking maybe this is not a good idea
00:02 <@snapcount> we should just wait and fix this when we have exception handling
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00:15 <+perlDreamer> i agree
00:15 <+perlDreamer> poop
00:15 <+perlDreamer> sigh
00:15 <+perlDreamer> wait
00:39 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: Is there a SOAP method call for that particular service?
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01:39 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I'd like to close your i18n bug
01:39 <+perlDreamer> The Calendar itself is pretty well i18n'ed
01:39 <@preaction> about the Calendar?
01:39 <@preaction> i think he might've meant the Events
01:39 <+perlDreamer> And rizen has said that template i18n will be held off for a separate project on 7.4
01:40 <+perlDreamer> if he meant Events, he can refile it
01:40 <@preaction> that and the stuff in Events that isn't i18n is in a template
01:40 <@preaction> if he would have been specific....
01:40 <@preaction> oh wait, maybe the Feeds stuff isn't i18n
01:40 <@preaction> in fact, i'm pretty sure it's not
01:40 <@preaction> all that raw javascript... *shudder*
01:41 <+perlDreamer> that needs to be a Snippet or call to extras
01:41 <@preaction> i know
01:41 <@preaction> i've been trying to make it more generic that the routines can be useful elsewhere
01:42 <+perlDreamer> I only see 1 or 2 strings that could be i18n'ed
01:42 <+perlDreamer> and by default, none of them are in the other templates
01:42 <+perlDreamer> that use javascript
01:42 <@preaction> just the admin console
01:42 <+perlDreamer> PM
01:42 <+perlDreamer> EMS
01:42 <+perlDreamer> Dashboard
01:42 <+perlDreamer> Shortcut
01:43 <@preaction> i guess i'm not understanding
01:43 <@preaction> none of them are) (in the other templates)?
01:43 <+perlDreamer> most of the other parts of wG that use javascript do not have i18n labels in the javascript
01:43 <@preaction> ahh
01:43 <@preaction> stupid prepositional phrases
01:44 <+perlDreamer> $perlDreamer->eod && $tired
01:44 <@preaction> if he were more specific, we could track down where there isn't i18n
01:45 <+perlDreamer> it's pretty easy to find where there isn't i18n.
01:45 <@preaction> and i think i'm doing locale wrong, i think the user profile or the language has a locale field, when it's in the i18n file
01:45 <@preaction> i defer to your knowledge then
01:45 <@preaction> since i seriously don't know sometimes what should or shouldn't be i18n
01:45 <+perlDreamer> ideally, any user displayed string would be i18n'ed
01:45 <+perlDreamer> anything going to the logfile is always in english
01:46 <+perlDreamer> two weeks ago, I started i18n'ing the templates exhaustively.  JT asked me to stop and work on bugs
01:46 <+perlDreamer> and because he has a new idea for i18n'ing templates in 7.4
01:46 <+perlDreamer> so if we can cover the code well, then the templates will be fixed in 7.4.0
01:47 <@preaction> sounds good
01:47 <+perlDreamer> his new solution for i18n labels is like 15% faster than what we're doing now
01:47 <@preaction> sweet
01:48 <+perlDreamer> did you ever arrive at a solution that you liked for Event/Calendar help?
01:48 <+perlDreamer> because I'm stumped on bugs, I'm not supposed to i18n templates and I have no work for $dayJob
01:49 <@preaction> sorta/kinda, it works but i don't know how to make it do what i want
01:49 <@preaction> like just make an article for "How to do feeds"
01:49 <@preaction> let me SVN what i have
01:49 <+perlDreamer> okay
01:51 <@preaction> committed
01:53 <+perlDreamer> to just make an article, just create an entry with body and title tags.
01:54 <+perlDreamer> then make i18n entries for each one
01:56 <@preaction> ok
01:56 <+perlDreamer> for an example, look in Help/WebGUI.pm for the glossary or 'webgui tips' entries
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04:48 < PedersenMJ> good evening.
04:59 < Radix-wrk> afternoon
04:59 < Radix-wrk> only just mind you.. 12.01pm ;)
04:59 < Radix-wrk> How goes the theme creation?
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05:53 < PedersenMJ> Sorry for idle, in other windows. Haven't done anything since Friday. Been working (before that) on my submission for the current contest, and will (possibly) get back to that tonight after I finish up some work on my Jabber server.
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11:11 < xdanger> preaction: yo, is there a way to send email from dataform in plaintext still?
11:11 < xdanger> I upgraded and clients aren't happu
11:11 < xdanger> haapy
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13:39 < nisha> hi all
13:39 < nisha> anybody home!
13:39 < nisha> was wondering if nyone can share someinsight about google sitemaps
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13:48 < nisha> #webmaster
14:18 < Radix__> hello
14:19 < Radix__> I might be able to help out with Google sitemaps.. I wrote the how to for it afterall:)
14:32 < Radix__> Anyways.. ask your question, I'll reply when I get back.. off to watch some tv :)
14:42 < nisha> i wanted to know how google crawl data for site
14:42 < nisha> and does he really crawl for deep web 
14:43 < nisha> i have a site where many of the links are not direct but they are through javascript function call
14:44 < nisha> does google will help me crawling data and can i use google for my site (for search purpose)
14:45 < Radix__> that's what the sitemap is for - you tell google what pages you have, and when they were last updated
14:46 < nisha> i tried crawling my web site on google sitemap
14:47 < nisha> but its not crawling the pages which are not directly links from any where but linked through javascript functions
14:48 < nisha> i mean i tried creating a sitemap.xml file
14:49 < Radix__> are you using webgui?
14:49 < nisha> google sitemap tool
14:49 < nisha> http://www.xml-sitemaps.com/ 
14:49 < nisha> this is site from where i have created that xml
14:50 < Radix__> You're not actually using webgui tho are you?
14:50 < nisha> if u know from where i am suppose to create the xml or 
14:50 < nisha> can u please help me out
14:50 < nisha>  i am new to this
14:50 < nisha>  please let me know what all i need to do 
14:51 < nisha> may be u can guide for this, if u have time 
14:52 < Radix__> I used webgui to build my sitemap file
14:52 < nisha> can u tell me the site address for webui
14:52 < nisha> and after creating sitemap (file), what i need to do ?
14:53 < Radix__> you need to register it with google
14:53 < Radix__> ie. signup to google sitemaps and register your site
14:53 < Radix__> and www.webgui.org
14:54 < Radix__> https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/docs/en/about.html
14:54 < Radix__> that's what I used to generate the final sitemap file, though I used webgui (and the information in my How To) to generate the initial sitemap.xml file
14:55 < Radix__> I can only presume you googled google sitemap and got my howto on the wiki to get here :)
14:55 < nisha> thanks for the site names
14:56 < nisha> but i have tried this
14:56 < nisha> some how this is enable to crawl my site
14:56 < nisha> showing me 404 error, while i can access it from my browser
15:02 < nisha> u there?
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15:14 < nisha> hey ny body there?
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15:20 < nishak> hi
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16:50 < greghacke> preaction: tables appear to have posted but it appears that I cannot access the tgproducts through sqlform (sql reports work fine) the only difference between the two is the declaration of a key.  If you get a chance, can you remove the key from the column productId (it lists as MUL but there is only one)
16:52 < greghacke> actually, when I tried to use SQLForm, it appears to have broken my tginventory table.
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18:17 <@snapcount> eh
18:18 < greghacke> sounds like a good day
18:19 < ckotil> so far so good.
18:21 < ckotil> we got some snow yesterday and i was fortunate enough to find a huge parkinglot at a mega church to donuts and drift in my wrx.
18:21 < ckotil> it was the most fun ive had in a while.
18:22 < greghacke> I drove from southwest michigan to central ohio - a 4 hour drive - that took 12 hours.
18:22 < ckotil> ouch.
18:22 < ckotil> yeah, my mom said it took her 5 hours to get home from work. normally a 30 minute drive from cincinnati just into Indiana.
18:22 < greghacke> yep.  is terrible out still.
18:23 < ckotil> i made it home in 10 minutes, normally takes 5 minutes. ;]  i took side roads home.
18:23 < ckotil> all wheel drive is a godsend
18:23 < greghacke> definately.
18:23 < greghacke> i was fine on the drive until 2 miles out - then the slip had me all over the road.
18:46 < ckotil> how come all my version tags GROUP TO USE default to turn admin mode on ?
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19:37 <+perlDreamer> talk to me, snapcount
19:40 <@snapcount> all hail the mooninites!
19:40 <+perlDreamer> how did I break wG this week?
19:40 <@snapcount> I'm not sure it's you now actually
19:40 <+perlDreamer> w00t!
19:40 <@snapcount> right now this only happens when you upgrade plainblack.com
19:41 <+perlDreamer> what are the symptoms?
19:41 <@snapcount> I tried it on a copy of another thread heavy site and no problem
19:41 <@snapcount> empty uncommitted version tags
19:41 <+perlDreamer> hm
19:41 <@snapcount> and as an aside, it takes a really long time
19:41 <+perlDreamer> it should
19:41 <@snapcount> that thread recalculation on pb.com took over an hour
19:41 <+perlDreamer> it had to reindex every thread and every post
19:41 <@snapcount> nice!
19:42 <+perlDreamer> I asked rizen about it, and he said to go ahead and do it
19:42 <@snapcount> ok
19:42 <@snapcount> in the future note stuff like that in gotchas
19:42 <@snapcount> I already added it for this time
19:42 <@snapcount> otherwise people will think the world is ending
19:42 <+perlDreamer> okay
19:43 <@snapcount> so I've looked at your code
19:43 <@snapcount> and it looks fine
19:43 <+perlDreamer> do you want another pair of eyes?
19:43 <@snapcount> no diff in how you call those methods as compared to the CS
19:43 <+perlDreamer> and it should be using update, so no calls to the auto commit workflows
19:44 <@snapcount> only thing I could think of is that maybe the archived posts are screwing it up b/c you can't rate those from the UI afaik
19:44 <@snapcount> but yeah
19:44 <@snapcount> update is right
19:44 <@snapcount> it's under a tag and committed
19:44 <@snapcount> by the upgrade script
19:44 <@snapcount> So I don't know what the deal is
19:45 <+perlDreamer> how many tags are created?
19:45 <+perlDreamer> dude
19:45 <@snapcount> dude?
19:45 <+perlDreamer> empty, committed version tags?
19:45 <@snapcount> uncommitted
19:46 <+perlDreamer> well..., let me ask you this
19:46 <@snapcount> the answer is badger
19:46 < greghacke> 42!
19:46 <+perlDreamer> the update script checks out a version tag
19:46 <+perlDreamer> and then commits it at the end
19:47 <+perlDreamer> what if no work is done and it tries to call commit?
19:47 <+perlDreamer> that definitely explains empty
19:47 <+perlDreamer> but not uncommitted
19:47 <+perlDreamer> how many tags are we talking about?
19:47 <@snapcount> well that would explain it if the upgrade were run 42 times
19:47 <@snapcount> one tag and commit per upgrade
19:48 <+perlDreamer> 42 sites per install?
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20:00 < wgGuest42> hi
20:01 <+perlDreamer> howdy
20:01 < wgGuest42> I just saw that wG 7.3.9 is there!
20:01 <+perlDreamer> almost
20:01 < wgGuest42> you're taking online the release notes?
20:02 <+perlDreamer> they will be posted online for the final release
20:02 <+perlDreamer> people are checking that the upgrade goes smoothly before the final release
20:02 <+perlDreamer> but the goal is to get it out today
20:02 < wgGuest42> So next week for 7.4?
20:02 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure about that.
20:03 <+perlDreamer> 7.4 is supposed to be held off until the bug list is completely clear
20:03 < wgGuest42> sounds good
20:03 <+perlDreamer> are you anxious for the release?
20:03 <+perlDreamer> there are over 50 bugs fixed in this one
20:04 < wgGuest42> yeah I noticed from the bugs list that's why I wanted to upgrade asap
20:04 < wgGuest42> but maybe I'll wait to be sure the upgrade is safe
20:04 <+perlDreamer> if you're really, really curious about the release notes, you can get them from SVN
20:05 < wgGuest42> true
20:07 <+perlDreamer> here: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/view/WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt
20:07 < wgGuest42> yep reading it
20:08 < wgGuest42> there's a duplicate entry
20:08 <+perlDreamer> it was fixed twice
20:08 < wgGuest42> fix: Calendar feeds do not work
20:08 <+perlDreamer> yeah, that actually might have been fixed twice
20:08 <+perlDreamer> just kidding, preaction
20:11 <@preaction> probably three or four times
20:11 <@preaction> and it wasn't my fault!
20:11 <+perlDreamer> you can't channel Jake Blues unless you're in Chicago
20:16 <@snapcount> this vm with 512MB of ram is not taking kindly to the import of the plainblack database
20:16 <@snapcount> actually it's funny you mention that dup
20:17 <@snapcount> b/c it was fixed twice
20:17 <@snapcount> it just didn't work the first time
20:17 <@snapcount> lol
20:17 <@snapcount> I crack myself up.... sigh*
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20:24 <@snapcount> sheesh... it wasn't *that* un-funny
20:24 <+perlDreamer> no, he got what he was looking for
20:24 <+perlDreamer> release notes
20:24 <+perlDreamer> and to find out if 7.4 will be released next week
20:24 <+perlDreamer> which it won't
20:24 <@snapcount> yeah... seeing as how we havent even begun development yet
20:24 <+perlDreamer> and the buglist
20:25 <@snapcount> true true
20:25 <@snapcount> so I have to reboot the vm
20:25 <@snapcount> it died
20:25 <+perlDreamer> okay
20:25 <+perlDreamer> I'll kill my ssh session on this end
20:25 <@snapcount> I'm going to give it more memory
20:25 <@snapcount> and check diskspace
20:29 <@snapcount> yep
20:29 <@snapcount> vm won't even boot
20:29 <@snapcount> ran out of diskspace
20:29 <@snapcount> crikey!
20:29 <+perlDreamer> probably filled up a logfile
20:29 <@snapcount> good thing parallels has a tool for resizing the partition
20:29 <+perlDreamer> big partitions
20:29 <@snapcount> It was only 8000 MB
20:30 <@snapcount> so I bumped it to 20 GB
20:30 <+perlDreamer> lots of memory, too
20:30 <+perlDreamer> oh
20:30  * snapcount shakes his money maker
20:30 <+perlDreamer> swap space
20:30 <+perlDreamer> it probably filled up the swap, then the whole partition
20:30 <@snapcount> I upped the memory to 1 GB too
20:31 <@snapcount> man what happened to crythias
20:31 <@snapcount> he's rarely seen anymore
20:31 <@snapcount> and when he is here very quiet
20:32 <+perlDreamer> I don't know
20:32 <@snapcount> not as into it all as he used to be
20:32 <@snapcount> seems anyway
20:32 <+perlDreamer> pretty quiet on the boards, too
20:32 < ckotil> ya
20:32 <@snapcount> I hope he's not burnt out
20:32 <@snapcount> he's awesome for the community
20:32 < ckotil> when i first started to use webgui, crythias was all over every question i had
20:33 <@snapcount> he ran his own FAQ too I think
20:33 <@snapcount> he did a lot
20:33 <+perlDreamer> he's on AOL
20:33 <@snapcount> s/a lot/alot/g
20:33 <+perlDreamer> AIM, I mean if you want to ask him
20:34 <@snapcount> I don't want to put him on the spot
20:34 <+perlDreamer> with you asking, and asking nicely, it wouldn't be
20:34 <+perlDreamer> just say that you miss him
20:34 <+perlDreamer> which is true
20:34 <@snapcount> where the *hell* have you been mister!
20:34 <+perlDreamer> either that, or see if he wants to go out to coffee.
20:34 <@snapcount> something like that?
20:35 <+perlDreamer> Don't both of you live in Florida?
20:35 <@snapcount> I think he lives over in Tampa
20:35 <@snapcount> not very close to me
20:35 <@snapcount> about 3 hours drive
20:35 <@snapcount> and I seem to recall him talking about moving
20:36 <@snapcount> not sure if he did though
20:39 <@snapcount> I'd say we're about 40% through the resize
20:39 <@snapcount> HDD is thrashing
20:39 <@snapcount> palms are getting sweaty b/c the mbp is heating up quite nicely
20:41 <+perlDreamer> you see the Slashdot article on 17" dells having a 20-65V DC bias?
20:41 <@snapcount> no
20:41 <@snapcount> link?
20:41 <+perlDreamer> http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/02/07/1523249.shtml
20:43 <@snapcount> "Here hold this"
20:43 <@snapcount> ZAPPP~!!!
20:43 <+perlDreamer> _my_ laptop has that problem
20:43 <+perlDreamer> I was blowing it off
20:43 <@snapcount> don't use it in the garden barefoot after the sprinklers run
20:43 <@snapcount> or at the beach with your feet in the water
20:44 <@snapcount> get in on the class action suit while you can perlDreamer 
20:44 <@snapcount> !!!
20:44 <+perlDreamer> I've had severe physical and emotional trauma
20:44 <+perlDreamer> I'm afraid to use it.
20:44 <@snapcount> it makes you wonder how they made it pass UL
20:44 <+perlDreamer> Even the keyboard tray is hot
20:45 <@snapcount> its funny but honestly that could be fatal
20:45 <@snapcount> the voltages they describe
20:45 <@snapcount> especially from one are to the other
20:45 <@snapcount> (across the heart)
20:45 < ckotil> i bought a dell 4 years ago. inspiron 5100. its lasted this long, but i will never buy a dell again
20:45 <@snapcount> s/are/arm/
20:46 <+perlDreamer> I've loved the last two Dells that I bought
20:46 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: what would you get instead?
20:46 <@snapcount> okay the VM is back
20:46 < ckotil> hp/ibm(lenova)/macbook pro
20:46 <@snapcount> and it's quite zippy now
20:46 <+perlDreamer> do they run linux well?
20:47 <@snapcount> running fsck though due to the hard power down
20:47 < ckotil> not sure. id expect them too
20:47 < ckotil> and with a bit of tweaking im sure they would
20:47 <@snapcount> bow wow wow whaa
20:48 <@snapcount> purple haze off in my brain......
20:49 <@snapcount> so I hear the creators of Gutiar Hero are making a game that will actually teach you to play a real guitar
20:49 < ckotil> thats awsome
20:50 <@snapcount> yeah... if it's anything like GHII it will be awesome
20:51 <@snapcount> ah crap
20:51 < ckotil> http://www.funpic.hu/files/pics/00031/00031437.jpg
20:51 <@snapcount> this magic utility didn't resize my linux partitions
20:51 <@snapcount> crappity poo poo
20:51 <@snapcount> now I've got to finagle it
20:52 <@snapcount> let me guess ckotil 
20:52 <@snapcount> milk man?
20:52 < ckotil> looks like a double trailor semi
20:53 <@snapcount> yeah one of those milk trucks
20:53 <@snapcount> maybe it's gas
20:53 <@snapcount> but definitely a liquid of some sort
20:54 < ckotil> ya
20:54 <@snapcount> in any case, that would definitely ruin your day
20:54 <@snapcount> you're in the shower and a friggin semi drives past you through your house
20:54 < ckotil> id flip
20:54 <@snapcount> I'd prolly do a couple other things first =P
20:54 <@snapcount> heheh
20:55 < ckotil> like shit.
20:56 <+perlDreamer> SPAD
20:56 <@snapcount> this one was awesome
20:56 <@snapcount> prolly seen it though
20:56 <@snapcount> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMH0bHeiRNg
20:56 <@snapcount> sfw
20:59 < ckotil> yah. white dood can dance
21:00 <@snapcount> some of it is hillarious
21:00 <@snapcount> his MC Hammer is pretty good
21:01 <@snapcount> then the old time favs... lawnmower, sprinkler, canopener, shopping cart
21:01 <@snapcount> the best has to be the cotton eye'd joe dance 
21:03 <@snapcount> stupid vm hurry up go!!!!!!!
21:08  * perlDreamer suggests that this might be justification for a better box
21:14 <@snapcount> my mbp can hold another GB of RAM apparently
21:14 <@snapcount> one 2GB and one 1GB stick
21:14 <@snapcount> right now I have 2 total
21:15 <+perlDreamer> Mars needs more women
21:15 <+perlDreamer> Snapcount needs more RAM
21:15 <@snapcount> you can never have enough RAM
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21:17 <@khenn> afternoon
21:19 <@snapcount> hola
21:21 <+perlDreamer> khenn, you going to be around later this afternoon?
21:23 <@khenn> yeah
21:23 <@khenn> I have to go pick up my boy from school @ 3pm CST
21:24 <@khenn> but I'll be back around 3:30ish
21:24 <+perlDreamer> okay
22:50 <@preaction> is there something in Perl that flattens undef elements out of a hash reference?
22:51 <@preaction> whenever i make a hash reference using a value from an object method that could return undef, if it returns undef it acts like the value isn't even there, and instead shows the next key name as the value
22:52 <@preaction> so { a => $b->param("maybeUndef"), c => "d" }, shows "c" for the value of "a" if $b->param() returns undef
22:52 <@preaction> only fix i've found is to put $b->param("maybeUndef") || ""
23:06 <@snapcount> what happens to "d"?
23:09 <@snapcount> surprising that it doesn't cause a runtime error
23:14 <@preaction> surprising indeed
23:16 <@preaction> figured it out
23:16 <@preaction> the $b->param isn't returning undef, it's returning an empty list
23:16 <@preaction> so {a => (), c => "d"}, and that is expected behavior, since the list gets flattened
23:17 <@preaction> so i have to force scalar context
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23:39 <+perlDreamer> snapcount does jumping jacks
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23:39 <+perlDreamer> he's back!
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--- Day changed Thu Feb 08 2007
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00:02 <+perlDreamer> what's up with IRC today?
00:18 <@khenn> dunno
00:18 <@khenn> I've been connected the whole day
00:18 <+perlDreamer> maybe it's me.  Everyone seems to be bouncing in and out.
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02:59 <@preaction> are you or are you not the black angel of death
03:08 < greghacke> whom?
03:09 < greghacke> i consider myself more darker shade of grey...
03:18 < Radix-wrk> The time of purification is at hand
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05:20 < PedersenMJ> g'd evening.
05:52 < Radix-wrk> yo
05:53 < Radix-wrk> heh - http://gaming.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1257066.php/Study_shows_a_link_between_improved_eyesight_and_action_games
05:59 < ckotil> scren -r
05:59 < ckotil> sfd
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06:50 < nishak> hey i have a query to ask, i even had a chat with Radix yesterday, but due to some problem could not continued
06:50 < nishak> anyone there, to help me on search topic
06:50 < nishak> ???
06:52 < PedersenMJ> Dunno if I can help, but will be happy to try.
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06:59 < nishak_______> But the problem is that i m using every where Ajax in my website
07:00 < nishak_______> due to AJAX many search engine failed to index the pages which are not direclty linked from anywhere but getting called through javascript function
07:00 < nishak_______> I want a search engine which will deep crawl my web site
07:01 < nishak_______> was wondering if google will be helpful
07:01 < nishak_______> if u have any idea about the same
07:01 < nishak_______>  please help me out
07:02 < PedersenMJ> Well, you're already using Ajax and CSS, so why not abuse it a bit more? Add your links (non-javascript versions of them) at the bottom of your page, and set their CSS style to "display: none;"
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07:13 < nishak_______> thats fine for a time being i m doing the same
07:13 < nishak_______> looking for a better solution 
07:14 < nishak_______> if a search engine can crawl deep web then it will be better because my web site contains more that 100 such links
07:14 <@preaction> realize that intelligent search engines know when something is invisible to users like that
07:15 <@preaction> why are you using ajax so intensively anyway?
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07:22 < nishak_______> well to optimize and speedup 
07:23 <@preaction> probably not a good idea, there are still browsers (and always will be browsers) that do not use javascript and/or ajax
07:23 < nishak_______> but i have read that google does deep crawling' 
07:23 <@preaction> how will a screen reader view your site?
07:23 <@preaction> how will lynx view your site?
07:23 <@preaction> elinks?
07:27 < nishak_______> i have not teted it on linux
07:28 < nishak_______>  but this is specific to browser
07:28 <@preaction> i did not say "linux", i said "lynx" and "elinks"
07:28 <@preaction> terminal browsers
07:28 < nishak_______> javascript is support by almost all browsers its just that u can disable it
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07:29 <@preaction> almost all is not all, and you've made your site completely depend...
07:29 <@preaction> you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him think...
07:46 < Radix-wrk> as a side note - nishak doesn't seem to be using webgui
07:47 < Radix-wrk> kinda why I lost interest in helping him using google sitemaps yesterday
07:49 < Radix-wrk> he seems to have made his way here after hitting my google sitemaps howto in the wiki
07:50 < Radix-wrk> but without the power of webgui behind him - he's going to find it much harder to do what he wants! :)
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08:18 <@preaction> was wondering how he got a fully ajax site with WebGUI
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16:15 < ckotil> sweet. i just found out whats causing all the unf'd up characters to appear in webgui.log
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17:33 < ckotil> heh, my issue didnt get posted to the forums
17:33 < ckotil> in PB Support
17:41 < ckotil> is the PB SUpport forum broke?
17:41 < ckotil> I posted again , and nothing showed
17:53 < ckotil> forums look to be busted
18:01 < ckotil> ouch.
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18:26 < ckotil> ah, they got posted .
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18:47 < ckotil> filed a bug on those wierd errors im getting in my webgui.log
18:48 <+perlDreamer> with a patch? :)
18:48 < ckotil> heh. no sadly
18:48 < ckotil> JT said it looks to be an issue with error handling inside http proxy
18:48 < ckotil> and the wierd characters come from an .rrd file
18:48 <+perlDreamer> what is an rrd file?
18:48 < ckotil> which is a round robin database, which we use to generate some graphs about the networks
18:48 <+perlDreamer> ah
18:49 < ckotil> Yeah http proxy was blowing up httpd, due to proxying huge 30MB syslog files. hundreds of them
18:50 < ckotil> so i quit using http proxy, switched to iframe (which blows). then i figured out i didnt have http proxy setup properly. so i turned off proxying of other domains 
18:50 <+perlDreamer> and then you get this funky error from an rrd file
18:50 < ckotil> but the bots still have the url to those http proxy assets.
18:50 < ckotil> ya.
18:50 < ckotil> and im able to replicate it every time by going to the url the bot did
18:51 <+perlDreamer> are you willing to work with me to fix the bug?
18:51 <+perlDreamer> since the release has been delayed, there'sa chance we would get it into 7.3.9
18:51 < ckotil> ya, i have time. until 4pm EST
18:52 < ckotil> One of my engineers looked at http proxy and suggested that it proxy content 'smarter' do a pre fetch to see how big the content is that its going to proxy.
18:53 <+perlDreamer> that would be a great RFE, and probably simple to implement
18:53 < ckotil> Yah. im not sure how to explain it completely. i dont know much about proxying
19:03 < ckotil> some goofyness on the boards today.
19:04 <+perlDreamer> JT's right.  That file is lying.  It says that it's a plain text file, instead of a file with encodings for download.
19:04 <+perlDreamer> The boards seem a little slow.
19:04 < ckotil> ah. so is it not really a bug?
19:04 <+perlDreamer> might be, might not be
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19:04 <+perlDreamer> it's running a pre-release 7.3.9 for testing and debug
19:08 < ckotil> can i instruct webgui what type of file it should expect based on teh extension?
19:08 < ckotil> that seems like a good solution.
19:09 <+perlDreamer> I'll look into it
19:09 < ckotil> bc from what JT just said, its not really a bug in webgui, more like a bug in our rrd files
19:09 <+perlDreamer> it would be better if you assigned the .rrd files a MIME type in your apache config
19:09 < ckotil> nice.
19:09 < ckotil> thats the solution.
19:09 < ckotil> i will give that a shot. call on that url and see if the wierd characters show up in webgui.log
19:10 <+perlDreamer> cool.  i've found that wget is an easier way to looking at the raw url and seeing the headers
19:10 <+perlDreamer> wget -S http://stryper.uits.iu.edu/abilene/losa-sinet-bits.rrd
19:10 <+perlDreamer> that will print the headers and begin a download
19:11 <+perlDreamer> then you can kill the download
19:11 <+perlDreamer> it's quick
19:11 < ckotil> nice.
19:11 < ckotil> heh. 100%[====================================>] 6,807,236     10.00M/s
19:11 <+perlDreamer> that's quicker!
19:11 <+perlDreamer> of course, you're in the NOC, right?  You should have bandwidth to spare
19:11 < ckotil> indeed
19:12 < ckotil> our NOC is actually in 2 locations seperated by about 50 miles
19:12 < ckotil> 10GE connection between
19:12 < ckotil> now ill have to set this MIME type on apache running at stryper.uits.iu.edu right?
19:12 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:12 < ckotil> k
19:13 <+perlDreamer> my apache config has a TypesConfig directive
19:13 <+perlDreamer> TypesConfig /etc/mime.types
19:14 <+perlDreamer> if yours does as well, then just add the appropriate line to /etc/mime.types and restart the server
19:14 <+perlDreamer> something like
19:14 <+perlDreamer> application/rrd             rrd
19:15 <+perlDreamer> and, while you're in there, add any others that might be lurking around
19:17 < ckotil> k. adding now.
19:18 < ckotil> i wonder if adding that to the server running webgui would change the MIME type when proxying?
19:19 <+perlDreamer> I would test it on the originating server first.  It's much more likely to pass on the HTTP headers than it is to fix/change them.
19:19  * ckotil nods
19:57 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: did that fix it?
20:03 < ckotil> nah, added it to the apache httpd.conf. still appears to be text/plain
20:04 <+perlDreamer> restarted apache?
20:06 < ckotil> ok workd.
20:06 < ckotil> had to add it to /etc/mime.types
20:06 < ckotil> now to revisit that url and see how webgui handles it
20:12 < ckotil> i still got the error.
20:12 <+perlDreamer> you may need to clear the cache
20:12 < ckotil> k
20:13 < ckotil> ssdd.
20:13 < ckotil> ill add the rrd MIME type to webgui's apache instance
20:14 < ckotil> haha. dammit those errors really screw up my osx terminal. turns all my text into gibberish
20:14 < ckotil> oups.svg                        nimages.tar            validate.cgi
20:14 < ckotil> htcheck.conf                      nlr
20:14 < ckotil> Ilight Service Level Pricing.doc  noc_01.png
20:15 <+perlDreamer> don't tail the file.  Look at it with an 8-bit clean editor like vim
20:15 < ckotil> hrmm... copies hte text fine, but it looks like gibbereish to me.
20:15 < ckotil> good idea
20:22 <+perlDreamer> snapcount and crythias usually know how to fix this kind of stuff
20:25 < ckotil> good deal.
20:25 <+perlDreamer> we're good?
20:26 < ckotil> oh no, good deal that snap count and crythias are good with this.
20:26 < ckotil> its still doing it :/
20:26 < ckotil> ill append to the bug report that i added an rrd application type to apache
20:28 < ckotil> is there a scroll to bottom in vi?
20:30 < ckotil> :20000j gets me close.
20:46 <+perlDreamer> in command mode, try G
20:46 <+perlDreamer> it should take you to the bottom of the file
20:53 < ckotil> ok 
20:53 < ckotil> hrmm, i only have vi . G doesnt do squat
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21:24 <+perlDreamer> ahoy
21:27 <@snapcount> I'm not really here
21:27 <+perlDreamer> Oh, in that case I didn't see you
21:27 <@snapcount> I just got booted from the client VPN and I'm trying to reconnect
21:27 <+perlDreamer> is someone talking?
21:27 <@snapcount> if it decides to connect I'll drop out again
21:27 <@snapcount> lol
21:27 <@snapcount> it's you concious
21:28 <@snapcount> spelled that wrong
21:28 <+perlDreamer> it's always had problems spelling
21:28 <@snapcount> sigh*
21:28 <@snapcount> I hate the interweb of tubes
21:46 <+perlDreamer> I hate my job
21:49 < ckotil> get hired on a PB fulltie
21:49 < ckotil> time*
21:49 < greghacke> i love my job - if only it paid better.
21:51 < ckotil> me too
21:51 < ckotil> im just starting off. so im fine with it
21:51 < ckotil> its good experience
21:51 < greghacke> i work for myself - but i need a real day-job in addition to my clients.
21:52 <+perlDreamer> I don't want much
21:52 <+perlDreamer> just doing a new wG/perl job with my current salary
21:52 < ckotil> nice. im planning on doing work for myself. web design stuff. and ill offer webgui or static pages
21:52 <+perlDreamer> that's where the problem comes in
21:52 <+perlDreamer> chip designer >>> perl hacker for salary
21:52 < ckotil> you design chips?
21:52 <+perlDreamer> yup
21:53 <+perlDreamer> you probably have a chip from my group on you right now
21:53 < greghacke> i like corn chips ;)
21:54 <+perlDreamer> our chips are crunchy
21:54 < ckotil> sweet
21:54  * perlDreamer goes afk for lunch
21:54 < ckotil> wheres the dip? or am i looking at it.
21:55 < ckotil> </meat wad ATHF>
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22:39 < ckotil> my manager is wondering if webgui has some sort of shortcut auditing system
22:40 < ckotil> i.e. get a list of assets being reffered to by a shortcut.
22:41 < ckotil> or does wG tell you when you're about to delete an asset thats being refered to withi a shortcut asset?
22:49 < ckotil> ah, so we thought we found a bug with the shortcut. but it really turned out to be an issue of not being able to dynamically link style information for error pages.
22:49 < ckotil> im driving a friend to the airport. bbl
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23:11 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: you could do that list with a SQL Report
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03:57 < SDuensin> Good evening all.
03:57 < greghacke> Evening
03:58 < Radix-wrk> Mornin'
03:58 < SDuensin> I'm a past WebGUI Super Fan.  However, the new admin interface and such has me really baffled.
03:59 < Radix-wrk> how so?
03:59 < SDuensin> Now that 7.0 has a Wiki in it, I want to run it again.  (And my host can finally run it.)
03:59 < SDuensin> For example, how in the FLIPPIN WORLD do you put photos into a gallery?!  There used to me a really helpful import tool!
04:00 < SDuensin> I've got some large galleries I need to import.
04:00 < SDuensin> And how do you do classified ads?  Can you make it list new ads/posts on the front page like you would with something like Drupal?
04:01 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. there's no photo gallery object anymore.. but you can do much the same with the collaboration system
04:01 < Radix-wrk> If you configure the collaboration system right, you'll be able to email in your photos
04:01 < SDuensin> Email?
04:01 < SDuensin> That's odd.
04:01 < Radix-wrk> Well.. you can add them one by one also
04:02 < SDuensin> That would be horrifically painful.
04:02 < Radix-wrk> I've not seen any tools for mass importing images - though with the API you could write one I guess
04:02 < SDuensin> Kind of odd they went backwards on that.
04:02 < Radix-wrk> you can mass import images into the collateral - but that doesn't give you any means of viewing them or putting them on a page
04:03 < Radix-wrk> the photo gallery in webgui 5 was a third party addon I seem to recall
04:03 < SDuensin> Was it?  Man, it's been too long.
04:03 < Radix-wrk> The CS system could be used to do ad's easily too
04:04 < SDuensin> (I'm loading my site up now so I can see what I've done.  There's some kind of gallery in the content you can add.)
04:05 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, there's a photo gallery - it's a prototype based on the collaboration system
04:06 < Radix-wrk> ie. it's just a CS system with a few different default settings
04:06 < SDuensin> I'll (re)buy the documentation subscription if I know it can do what I want.
04:07 < Radix-wrk> the CS system is very flexible, so it's capable of doing almost anything from FAQ's to flash videos, to pictures, etc.. anything that involves multiple posts
04:07 < SDuensin> Is there a way to promote content to the front page so new items show up on top?
04:08 < Radix-wrk> I'm not a PB employee btw.. so I don't have all the answers or the best way to do things :)
04:08 < SDuensin> Yea, I know.  I appreciate your help all the same!
04:09 < greghacke> SD: there is.  
04:09 < greghacke> you can use the sorting features in the CS tool.  Use something like Sort By: User Defined 1
04:10 < SDuensin> Cool, greghacke.
04:11 < SDuensin> So now that I have a photo gallery on the site, all I have is "Subscribe" and "Search".  How do you get something into it just to play with it?
04:11 < greghacke> create a template with the fields for the user defined (as detailed in the help.)
04:12 < greghacke> commit your changes and you'll see the add button
04:12 < greghacke> (greghacke works often with CS tools)
04:13 < SDuensin> The template is "Photo Gallery".
04:18 < SDuensin> I feel like a complete n00b.  I knew I should have kept up to date with this.
04:26 < greghacke> Eh, it's just work.  much has changed from say 5.x but so much is better.
04:27 < greghacke> what you have to do is dup the Defautl Submission template and add a field for User Defined 1
04:27 < greghacke> something that you want to sort on (for instance, a number so you can rate the posts as most important to least or what have you)
04:27 < greghacke> set your gallery to use this template as the submission template.
04:28 < greghacke> set your sort order to User Defined 1 and as ascending/descending as you may need.
04:30 < SDuensin> Are the docs more complete these days?  When I paid for the 5.x docs, they were pretty bad.
04:31 < greghacke> they are more complete.  Still growing but MUCH better than 5.x (I also do not work for PB but do find wG to be a great product so...)
04:31 < SDuensin> Oh, I know.  I was a HUGE fan of the 5.x series.
04:32 < SDuensin> What about that booklet they sell now?  (I can't find it on the site at the moment.)  Worth the $35?
04:32 < greghacke> 6.x was rough at times but 7 is definately worth it.  actually, skipping 6 means you may have missed the growing pains ;)
04:32 < greghacke> don't have it.
04:32 < SDuensin> Yea, but I also missed learning the changes.  7.x is VERY different from 5.x.
04:32 < Radix-wrk> WDR is online only now, with lots of movies making up the content
04:32 < greghacke> true
04:32 < Radix-wrk> no more pdf docs
04:33  * SDuensin is still mad that the docs he paid for went from PDF to web-based to flash animations.
04:33 < Radix-wrk> the booklet is very very entry level.. designed for the novice user
04:33 < greghacke> actually, i was in the same boat for a long time.  then i realized that the online stuff is more helpful overall.
04:33 < Radix-wrk> but the good news is that they're working on three more books atm for developers, administrators and designers
04:33 < SDuensin> Like me.  :-)
04:34 < greghacke> same here.  i've kicked a lot on wG.
04:34 < Radix-wrk> The WDR has much the same content tho
04:34 < SDuensin> I can get over it being online instead of a PDF.  The videos without any associated text annoys me.  It takes too long to watch the video when I just need to look something up.
04:34 < Radix-wrk> and lots lots more
04:34 < Radix-wrk> true
04:34 < Radix-wrk> the online help is pretty good tho
04:35 < greghacke> even done some work on pretty-fying wG incorporating thickbox
04:35 < Radix-wrk> as in the help that comes inside webgui itself
04:35 < greghacke> now that is one area that has seen some incredable work - the online help is so much better.
04:35 < Radix-wrk> documentation is actually one of their major TODO's atm - and one of the things they're working on
04:35 < SDuensin> Can you guys do me a favor?  Take a look at www.smithton.net and see if you think I could reproduce it in WebGUI.
04:35 < greghacke> yes
04:36 < SDuensin> Thank you.  :-)
04:36 < greghacke> and yes.
04:36 < SDuensin> I did that site in Drupal.  Drupal is nice, but it's no WebGUI.
04:36 < Radix-wrk> yeah, looks pretty straightforward
04:36 < SDuensin> The different content types on the front page sorted by date isn't an issue?
04:36 < greghacke> going through subpages now and not seeing anything difficult.
04:37 < greghacke> nope.
04:37 < SDuensin> Excellent.  That's what I wanted to hear.  :-D
04:37 < Radix-wrk> nah.. you could use a CS system for that and pick the sorting method
04:37 < Radix-wrk> each new news article is a post
04:38 < SDuensin> But can the news articles be different types?  News/Wanted Ads/For Sale/Events, etc?
04:38 < greghacke> and you can have multiple CS feeding via RSS into a master
04:38 < greghacke> yep.
04:39 < greghacke> you make each CS and aggregate them into a master.  as each can push out CSS, you have a master level aggregator pulling eact together and sorting by date.
04:39 < SDuensin> Nice.  <G>
04:39 < greghacke> css = rss
04:39 < Radix-wrk> and you can email in your new news articles if you want too, rather than go online and post them
04:40 < SDuensin> This is going to cause me a lot of work.  :-D  I've got about a dozen sites I want to move to WebGUI.
04:40 < Radix-wrk> and users can subscribe to your news and get copies sent via email
04:40 < greghacke> i've got about 17 sites so far plus the company I used to work for (GAMA)
04:40 < Radix-wrk> CS systems are pretty cool
04:40 < greghacke> i still like the EMS ;)
04:41 < greghacke> even if it's damn scary
04:41 < SDuensin> EMS?
04:41 < Radix-wrk> never had need to use the EMS myself
04:41 < SDuensin> I do so much web work that it's not even funny.  Too many different systems.  I think I currently manage sites on about 5 different CMS systems.
04:41 < greghacke> like a promethean nightmare.  Event Management System - for managing conventions, meetings, etc.
04:42 < SDuensin> I just need a simple event calendar.
04:42 < greghacke> was created to run a convention and is being used to run a lot of conventions now.  badging, even sales, etc.
04:42 < SDuensin> Wow.
04:42 < greghacke> that would be the Calendar.  works great and is sexily CSS capable now.
04:42 < SDuensin> Anyone write an addon to allow payments through PayPal yet?
04:42 < greghacke> also gives an RSS feed
04:42 < greghacke> there isn't one for public consumption but I know some have been written.
04:43 < SDuensin> I can do without one.  Was just curious.
04:44 < Radix-wrk> the commerce system is still the one part of WebGUI that is subject to change and needs work from what I hear.
04:44 < greghacke> from what i hear, it's part of the thrust for 7.4
04:44 < SDuensin> I use PayPal subscriptions to handle web hosting payments.  I can manage it with the proxy and the buttons that PayPal provides.
04:44 < SDuensin> (Man, I miss that proxy!)
04:45 < greghacke> (proxy was nice and terrifying)
04:46 < SDuensin> Was?
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04:52 <@rizen> what's up peeps
04:52 < SDuensin> Hi rizen 
04:53  * SDuensin is trying to get back into the WebGUI family.  
04:53 <@rizen> that's a fresh name SDuensin
04:53 <@rizen> haven't seen you on irc before
04:53 <@rizen> back into?
04:53 < greghacke> he's a 5.x guy making the leap!
04:54 < SDuensin> I was a HUUUUGEEE fan of the 5.x series.  Things changed.  Couldn't run 6.x on my host.
04:55 <@rizen> 5 was good, 7 is better
04:55 <@rizen> i think you'll like it once you're converted
04:56 < SDuensin> It sure seems that way.  I'm just trying to wrap my head around all the changes before I take the plunge.  To switch back to WebGUI is going to take a hell of a lot of work and money.  I think it'll be worth it though.
04:58 < greghacke> SD: you need somewhere to beat your head?
04:59 < Radix-wrk> demo.plainblack.com is handy for that
04:59 <@rizen> can i ask what you're on now?
04:59 < SDuensin> I set it up on a VM here.
04:59 < SDuensin> rizen, it's a hodge-podge of different systems.  Never found one I liked enough to base all my sites on it...
05:00 < SDuensin> Some Drupal, a couple Joomla, a few more bizarre.
05:00 <@rizen> wow, must be a big site if it takes multiple systems
05:00 < SDuensin> I got 7.x running on Kubuntu.  I think my host uses Red Hat or Fedora.
05:00 < SDuensin> Multiple sites.
05:00 <@rizen> RHEL is what we recommend for running the WRE
05:01 <@rizen> it's what we use on all our servers
05:01 <@rizen> or if they don't do RHEL then do CentOS which is the freebie clone that's binarily compatible
05:01 < SDuensin> I'll see if I can figure out what they run real fast.
05:02 < SDuensin> I know PB does hosting, but I want more than WebGUI.  :-)
05:02 < SDuensin> (At least for the time being!)
05:02 <@rizen> if you get one of our servers, you can run whatever you want on it
05:02 <@rizen> and we do all your WebGUI management for you
05:02 <@rizen> upgrades, backups, monitoring, etc
05:02 < greghacke> yep.  i'm about to go that route for some of my customers.  dedicated server = root!
05:02 < SDuensin> I'm looking at $60/mo for a virtual server that I can put as many domains on as I want.
05:03 <@rizen> that's hard to beat
05:03 < SDuensin> I know.  :-)
05:03 <@rizen> unfortunately webgui uses a bunch of ram...so vps usually doesn't work
05:03 < SDuensin> I know that, too.  :-(
05:04 <@rizen> webgui is designed for a dedicated server, whether that be a dedicated server that shares a bunch of virtual hosts
05:04 <@rizen> or just a stand alone dedicated
05:04 < SDuensin> I can get more RAM, disk space, etc. for $100/mo.
05:04 <@rizen> cool
05:04 < SDuensin> This is who I'm with at the moment:   http://www.liquidweb.com/shared/vps.htm
05:05 <@rizen> a lot of people chastize us for that, but we're not going after the same market as joomla et al
05:05 < SDuensin> RAM is cheap.  :-D
05:05 <@rizen> super sweet man
05:05 <@rizen> that looks very good
05:06 < SDuensin> I know.  I wish I had more clients so I could afford the uber-hosting from PB.  :-)
05:07 < greghacke> that's what i did.  as soon as i hit break point (which was last friday) I started the transition to a dedicated server
05:08 < SDuensin> Congrats, greghacke !
05:08 <@rizen> SDuensin...don't know how many webgui sites you have, but we now offer agency hosting for $15/mo if you have at least 5 sites
05:09 < SDuensin> Well, rizen, like I said, I need more than WebGUI.  I need Tomcat, too.  (I'm the nutcase writing http://zkdesktop.sourceforge.net and need to build a demo site.)
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05:13 < PedersenMJ> Good evening.
05:13 < SDuensin> Hello PedersenMJ 
05:14 < PedersenMJ> How's it going?
05:14 < SDuensin> Looking up.  :-)
05:14 < SDuensin> I'm here collecting info about WebGUI 7.x.
05:14 < PedersenMJ> That's a good thing, definitely.
05:15 < PedersenMJ> Ah, I'm not a great resource, definitely, but maybe can offer info.
05:16 < SDuensin> Pretty much learned it'll do everything I need.  :-D
05:16 < SDuensin> I used to run 5.x.
05:16 < PedersenMJ> Ah. BTW, from what I understand (though have not done/seen), you should use WRE. Makes life easier.
05:16 < SDuensin> I am.  It does.  :-D
05:17 <@rizen> wait until you see the next version of the WRE
05:17 < PedersenMJ> I need to try it sometime, I think.
05:17 <@rizen> i'm not even going to tell you what it does differently...only that you'll wonder how you ever got along without it
05:18 < greghacke> i pulled WRE for windows today.  use or a VM?
05:18 <@rizen> WRE for windows kinda sux
05:18 < PedersenMJ> I do pretty much nothing *but* vms :)
05:18 <@rizen> next release will be much better, windows and unix versions will have the same feature sets
05:18 < SDuensin> I loaded the WRE into a VM of Kubuntu.
05:18 < PedersenMJ> My home server is dual core, dual chip opteron with 4G of ram. And it runs a total of 13 vms.
05:19 < PedersenMJ> I could (and probably should) drop somewhere around 4 or 5 of them, but haven't gotten around to removing them.
05:22  * SDuensin is using a MacBook Pro to develop on.
05:22 < greghacke> "develop"?  I don't have time for that - jump in, feet first ;)
05:23 < SDuensin> Yea, well, I always have a zillion projects underway.  Like that web desktop.
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05:26 < greghacke> query - anyone played with the Project  Management System?
05:26  * PedersenMJ hasn't even pondered playing with it yet.
05:26 < greghacke> I've got one up using the Fail Safe template and can't add tasks.
05:31 <+perlDreamer> PB uses the PMS to manage projects
05:31 <+perlDreamer> it works okay
05:31 <+perlDreamer> I've set it up to fix bugs on it, but that's the extent of what I know.
05:31 < greghacke> yeah, it's like it tries to pull up the Ajx/modal window for adding a task and all i get in the window is the PM tool
05:32 < greghacke> makes it neigh-impossible to add tasks ;)
05:33 < greghacke> no big deal, not cognizant right now to fight with it anyway.
05:33 < greghacke> rizen: let me know on that box.
05:33 < greghacke> everyone: have a good evening/night/day whereever you may be.
05:33 <+perlDreamer> hack on, greg
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05:36 < SDuensin> Thanks for the info all.  I'll be back!   Night!
05:36 <@rizen> later
05:36 <@rizen> how goes it pd
05:37 <+perlDreamer> I've been beating me head against the same bugs for days
05:37 <+perlDreamer> I feel dented
05:38 <+perlDreamer> how are things in wisconsin?
05:39 <@rizen> anything i can do to hammer you out...i'm trying to catch up on support requests
05:39 <@rizen> things here are ok, and will be better after saturday
05:40 <+perlDreamer> It's not so bad.  I've been trying to fix the tinyMCE bug, and I'm still learning javascript.
05:40 <+perlDreamer> And I'll debug and resend you the logging Post.pm tonight, too
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06:08 <@rizen> see you peeps later
06:08 < PedersenMJ> l8r!
06:33 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: I have time tomorrow to look at the upgrade stuff.
06:33 <+perlDreamer> how's your VM?
06:34 <@snapcount> repair not complete
06:34 <@snapcount> still doing client stuff
06:34 <@snapcount> it should be good to go in the morning though
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06:36 <+perlDreamer> I went back and reread through the Post stuff
06:36 <+perlDreamer> it all looks fine
06:36  * perlDreamer is perplexed
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15:09 < ckotil> hrm. crythias joined for a whopping 2 minutes
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16:49 < pjesi> hi
16:50 < pjesi> when is 7.3.9 out?
16:56 <@rizen> when it comes out
16:56 <@rizen> we're not rushing it
16:56 <@rizen> we've found some possible problems with the release
16:56 <@rizen> and we're verifying each of them
16:56 <@rizen> before we put it out
16:56 <@rizen> it's important to us that each release we put out has less problems than the previous
16:57 <@rizen> so we're being very cautious
16:59 < Radix__> Hey rizen - tried supreme commander demo yet?
17:00 < greghacke> Been to the office today, rizen?
17:01 <@rizen> Radix: yes
17:01 <@rizen> it's awesome
17:01 <@rizen> I've cranked up all the settings as high as possible, and it gets a little choppy even on my big dog
17:02 <@rizen> shadows seem to be the biggest performance bottleneck
17:02 <@rizen> greg: no, i'm going there in a few minutes...just working on a little workflow problem first
17:02 < greghacke> gotta love the "little ... problems"
17:04 < Hinrik> rizen: the reason pjesi asked is because http://www.plainblack.com/getwebgui says "
17:04 < Radix__> I've got it cranked up to max on my laptop too :)
17:04 < Hinrik> "The latest version of WebGUI is 7.3.9 (stable)"
17:05 <@rizen> Hinrik: that version number inidcator uses the version number that plainblack.com is using
17:05 <@rizen> pb is on 7.3.9
17:05 < Hinrik> that's silly :)
17:05 <@rizen> and usually, right after we upgrade we put out the release
17:05 <@rizen> but this time, we noticed some problems in the upgrade
17:07 < Radix__> Hinrik, hey at least they put their money (code in this case) where their mouth is (and put their website on the line) :)
17:07 < Radix__> Ya gotta feel a bit more confident for anyone willing to do that
17:08 < Hinrik> sure
17:08 <@rizen> that's been the policy since day one
17:08 <@rizen> oh and hinrik, the reason that we use the version number from plainblack.com is to make sure that we don't forget to update that version number
17:08 <@rizen> 99.99999% of the time it shows the right version number for the latest release
17:56  * ckotil votes for 'write assets'
18:04 < Radix__> a PB employee may want to look at http://www.plainblack.com/web_design_templates_and_themes/design-help#RXeApC_VElMrkVUD387MZQ - sounds like the guy wants to pay for design help
18:05 <@rizen> yeah, he submitted a request late afternoon yesterday
18:06 <@rizen> and we submitted a response a few minutes ago
18:06 <@rizen> he's just impatient
18:06 < greghacke> lots of them out there.
18:07 <@rizen> it's interesting that he says he submitted a request a couple of days ago
18:07 <@rizen> because we just got it this morning
18:07 <@rizen> hmmm
18:07 < Radix__> workflow held up for some reason until you did the upgrade?
18:08 <@rizen> no cuz we got all the other email
18:08 <@rizen> and i was working on workflow yesterday, there was nothing hanging as of 11am yesterday
18:08 <@rizen> oh well, one more thing on my todo list to check out
18:09 < greghacke> woohoo.  i _don't_ want anything added to JT's list (except maybe a game of catan)
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18:53 < pjesi> any ideas why uploads doesnt work when moving webgui between hosts
18:53 <+perlDreamer> what do you mean by "doesn't work"?
18:59 < pjesi> I mean 404 
18:59 <+perlDreamer> so, through a web browser, you go to a WebGUI site.
18:59 <+perlDreamer> You try to access something stored in the uploads folder, and the server returns a 404, Not Found error.
19:01 < pjesi> yes
19:01 < pjesi> that is the problem
19:01 <+perlDreamer> what's in your webgui.log ?
19:02 < Hinrik> 2007/02/09 16:57:22 - ERROR - spectre.conf - Spectre::Workflow::workerResponse[449] - WORKFLOW: Response for DtZsX167BoETFR2qIBf4mA had a communications error.
19:02 < Hinrik> ^-- that
19:03 <+perlDreamer> that will have nothing to do with your uploads.  that's a spectre error
19:05 < Hinrik> if I rename the "uploads" directory, I get tons of errors
19:05 < Hinrik> 2007/02/09 17:00:15 - ERROR - arcticportal.org.conf - main::[[undef]] - Couldn't create storage location: /data/domains/arcticportal.org/public/uploads/RQ/R4/RQR4OkK0SwtZxn-8apTTQA : No such file or directory
19:05 <+perlDreamer> renaming the uploads directory without changing the webgui.conf file would do that.
19:05 < ckotil> perlDreamer: http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support/sqlreport-to-retrieve-assets-that-are-used-in-shortcut-assets check out this long ass query jt made for me
19:06 < Hinrik> yeah, but when it's correctly named, I get no errors, but still no images on the site
19:06 < Hinrik> read and write permissions are ok
19:06 < ckotil> pd: long ass query jt made for my shortcut asset audit
19:08 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: that's because you're pulling override data.  Be sure to make that SQL Report hard to find, because it will run slow.
19:10 <+perlDreamer> Hinrik, let's take this one step at a time.
19:10 < Hinrik> :)
19:10 <+perlDreamer> Do you have pages on your site without images?
19:10 < Hinrik> Yes.
19:10 <+perlDreamer> Do they work okay?
19:10 < Hinrik> Yes
19:10 <+perlDreamer> Do you have any errors uploading images?
19:11 < Hinrik> Wait..
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19:17 < Hinrik> It just hangs...
19:17 <+perlDreamer> when you try to upload an image?
19:17 < Hinrik> yes
19:17 <+perlDreamer> what's in your webgui.log at that point?
19:18 < Hinrik> just the spectre stuff I pasted earlier
19:18 < Hinrik> browser says "Sending request to <site>..."
19:23 < Hinrik> Tried uploading a simple text file now, which worked. But when I try to view it in the browser, I just get a 404.
19:23 <+perlDreamer> what do you see on the page containing the text file?
19:24 < Hinrik> You mean in the Asset manager?
19:24 <+perlDreamer> Where did you upload the text file to?
19:25 < Hinrik> I used the File asset, then picked /testfile as the url...
19:25 < Hinrik> Then when I visit it, I get: The requested URL /uploads/3o/FM/3oFMt4e00GWvo508mXMRZw/test.txt was not found on this server.
19:28 < Hinrik> sigh
19:28 < Hinrik> sorry
19:28 < pjesi> muhihihi
19:28 < Hinrik> DocumentRoot was wrong :)
19:28 <+perlDreamer> It's working now?
19:28 < Hinrik> Yes, everything.
19:28 <+perlDreamer> sweet
19:42 < Hinrik> another thing
19:43 < Hinrik> I took a db dump from another machine (mysql 5.0.22) via mysqldump and restored it on another machine (mysql 5.0.26), but there's apparently some encoding mismatch. Non-ascii characters don't show up correctly.
19:45 <+perlDreamer> I don't know what to tell you about that one.
19:46 < Hinrik> Hmm
20:25 < ckotil> perlDreamer: the shortcut audit is internal only. rarely used at that
20:43 < pjesi> wre mysql database was set to LATIN1, now our sql dump is broken
20:52 < ckotil> ouch
20:54 <+perlDreamer> so I'm pretty db ignorant
20:54 <+perlDreamer> are there ways to fix that?
20:55 < greghacke> lots of ways.
20:56 < pjesi> name one :)
20:57 < pjesi> if you dont have access to the original db
20:57 < pjesi> you only have the dump
21:55 < greghacke> import into a MySQL Server
21:55 < greghacke> run convert or cast into UTF8
21:55 < greghacke> i should say restore, convert, re-export.  been a while since i did it but i pulled off how from the mysql.com ite
22:00 < pjesi> does that work on table or db level?
22:15 < greghacke> ALTER DATABASE db_name 
22:15 < greghacke>     [[DEFAULT] CHARACTER SET charset_name] 
22:15 < greghacke>     [[DEFAULT] COLLATE collation_name]
22:15 < greghacke> so ALTER DATABASE db_name CHARACTER SET UTF8
22:15 < greghacke> always work with a backup, of course.
22:16 < pjesi> ok thx will give it a try
22:17 < greghacke> you can run a SHOW CHARACTER SET; first so you get the right collation wtih it for an alter statement
22:17 < greghacke> ALTER DATABASE db_name CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLAGE (appropriate utf8 collation)
22:30 < pjesi> this doesnt alter the data
22:31 < Hinrik> greghacke: /j mysql
22:32 < Hinrik> whoops
22:32 < Hinrik> don't know how that name got there
22:37 < greghacke> happens ;)
22:38 < greghacke> i've done converts just been a long while.
22:39 < greghacke> you can do an alter table tbl_name convert to character set charset_name collage collate_name
22:39 < greghacke> has to run against each table but easily scriptable
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22:51 < pjesi> we tryed a brute force converter on the dump
22:51 < pjesi> and there was no match
22:51 < pjesi> but if we roll it in to utf mysql then it is utf to latin
22:52 < pjesi> strange as hell
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23:09 < ckotil> is this how html::template::expr works? <tmpl_if field.number = 4>
23:14 <@rizen> no
23:14 <@rizen> <tmpl_if someConditionVariable>
23:14 < ckotil> i think i can use field.number and html::template:;expr to do what i want to do .
23:14 <@rizen> yes
23:14  * ckotil is grnoc
23:14 < ckotil> k cool.
23:15 <@rizen> i know
23:15 < ckotil> i found a bug tho in html::template;:expr
23:15 < ckotil> when i switch to that admin edit controls dont appear
23:15 <@rizen> h:t:e converts all . to _ in variable names
23:15 <@rizen> that's probably your problem
23:15 < ckotil> ah.
23:16 < ckotil> <tmpl_if field.number4> ?
23:16 <@rizen> in h:t or h:t:e?
23:16 < ckotil> h:t:e
23:16 < ckotil> actually it doesnt mater.
23:16 <@rizen> i believe it's <tmpl_if field_number == 4
23:17 < ckotil> k
23:18 < ckotil> bah.
23:18 < ckotil> not getting it
23:19 < ckotil> should i have to convert . to _ when using h:t:e ?
23:19 <@rizen> that's what i said
23:20 < ckotil> sort of. you said h:t:e converts all . to _ in variable names, you said nothing about ME having to do it
23:20  * ckotil does it
23:20 <@rizen> but i showed you above
23:20 <@rizen> field_number
23:20 <@rizen> rather than field.number
23:20 <@rizen> regardless
23:20 <@rizen> done
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23:21 < ckotil> he's in a bad mood today
23:23 < ckotil> hrmm.. that broke it
23:23 < ckotil> wtf
23:31 < ckotil> seems like sqlreport doesnt like h:t:e
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23:37  * TheSeparator slaps wgGuest57 around a bit with a large trout
23:45 < ckotil> c ya monday
--- Day changed Sat Feb 10 2007
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00:40 <+perlDreamer> preaction__: are you home?
00:40 < preaction___> no
00:40 < preaction___> but yes
00:40 -!- preaction___ is now known as preaction
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00:40 <+perlDreamer> Will you hate me forever if I put your Calendar help in the same format as the rest of the help?
00:40 <@preaction> no
00:40 <+perlDreamer> I have 2 hours today for doc hacking
00:41 <+perlDreamer> and I'd like to do your Calendar template docs
00:41 <+perlDreamer> How about just slightly despising me?
00:41 <@preaction> go for it
00:41 <+perlDreamer> I'm on it
01:21 < snapcount_> perlDreamer: you still here?
01:21 <+perlDreamer> ahoy
01:21 <+perlDreamer> ja wol
01:21 < snapcount_> I want to get the release out tonight, can you still help debug?
01:21 <+perlDreamer> I'm good for at least an hour
01:22 < snapcount_> ah crap
01:22 < snapcount_> ok
01:22 < snapcount_> It will be about an hour by the time I have the db downloaded and imported, etc
01:22 <+perlDreamer> well, after an hour I go home.  Then I'm Dad for a while, then I can help again.
01:22 < snapcount_> ok cool
01:22 < snapcount_> if you can hop back on
01:22 < snapcount_> hopefully I won't be here and you'll see a release announcement
01:22 < snapcount_> =)
01:23 <+perlDreamer> It shouldn't be a problem
01:23 <+perlDreamer> just don't tell frank
01:23 < snapcount_> your secret is safe with me
01:26 <+perlDreamer> preaction: this is easily the most sophiticated data structure for templates that I've seen yet.
01:26 <+perlDreamer> nice hacking, dude!
01:34 <+perlDreamer> snapcount_: are we committable?
01:35 <+perlDreamer> I have some Calendar docs that I'm working on, but I don't want to disturb the work done to date on the release.
01:35 < snapcount_> commit away
01:35 < snapcount_> bug fixes only
01:35 <+perlDreamer> docs okay?
01:35 < snapcount_> missing docs count as bugs to me =)
01:35 <+perlDreamer> roger that
01:38 <+perlDreamer> kristi is going to cringe when she reads this
02:24 <+perlDreamer> preaction: do you think people will want to customize the Edit Event template?
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02:26 < crythias> wow
02:26 <+perlDreamer> hey, crythias!
02:27 < crythias> Heya
02:27 <+perlDreamer> haven't seen you in a while
02:27 < crythias> I can't believe I'm back to my old OLD HD...
02:27 <+perlDreamer> what do you mean?
02:27 < crythias> I've been on XP since got my new Laptop (at least a year by now)
02:28 < crythias> then today I decided to return to FreeBSD from the old HD
02:28 < crythias> updated to 6.2
02:28 < crythias> and back to ion3 window manager.
02:28 < crythias> which ... is striking in its sparseness and yet impressive in its speed.
02:29 < crythias> though... I'm so far behind on this HD, I fear it's going to take several days to get it "going" well enough.
02:30 < crythias> the "Kernel" is FreeBSD 6.2, but I just played with Mandriva 2007 "Free" live CD with the 3D desktop and ... oh, wow.w
02:30 <+perlDreamer> I heard the eye candy in that is very nice.
02:30 < crythias> so either I can get compris on this box, if I want... 3D plus "ion" is kinda what's the point.
02:32 < crythias> (ion being more of every application is full-screen)
02:32 <+perlDreamer> then you rotate between them?
02:33 < crythias> yeah, it's more of tiling windows if you want to split the screen, but it's all about not overlaping windows
02:33 < crythias> you can have a "floating" wm in ion, but the main one is "tiled"
02:34 < crythias> it's ... sparse, but the point is more keyboard-centric than mouse-centric
02:34 <+perlDreamer> that sounds nice
02:34 <+perlDreamer> a friend of mine tried DeadRat, but is was a little too keyboard centric.
02:47 <+perlDreamer> I'm outta here
02:47 <+perlDreamer> catch you all later
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04:36 < snapcount_> hello
04:36 < snapcount_> can anyone hear me
04:42 <@preaction> no
04:42 <@preaction> is there anybody in there?
04:42 <@preaction> just nod if you can hear me
04:43 <+perlDreamer> I'm here
04:43 <+perlDreamer> sorry, tuning out on youTube
04:43 <+perlDreamer> snapcount_: wb
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04:51  * PedersenMJ waves.
04:55 <+perlDreamer> ahoy, matey
04:55 <+perlDreamer> welcome to the good ship WebGUI
04:56 < PedersenMJ> Arrr!
04:57 <+perlDreamer> How's the Style Master tonight?
04:59 < PedersenMJ> Well, doing good, actually. Felt good to see I'd inspired somebody to do a conversion (I just saw Isaac had done Andreas01).
05:01 <+perlDreamer> You know, I thought that you had done that one as well.
05:01 < PedersenMJ> Nope, wasn't me. I'm working on the entry for the community contest right now, and will be converting SunDark as part of that.
05:03 <+perlDreamer> I've done a couple of small entries for the WCC.
05:03 <+perlDreamer> One for changing the site icon
05:03 <+perlDreamer> and another for debugging macro problems
05:03 <+perlDreamer> I have to admit they were somewhat self serving
05:03 <+perlDreamer> because they are very frequently asked board questions
05:05 < PedersenMJ> Ah, mine definitely will fit into that category, I think. Making a style, from soup to nuts.
05:05 < PedersenMJ> Basically, I assume the person is in the same boat I was: Yay! I've installed WebGUI. Now how do I make this look the way *I* want it to look?
05:06 < PedersenMJ> i.e.: They know virtually nothing. By the time they're through with my walkthrough, they should know some basics of WebGUI, and *definitely* be able to make their own style, and even distribute it.
05:08  * perlDreamer goes afk for juvenile tooth flossing daddy duty
05:22 < PedersenMJ> This is still (in a big way) a work in progress, so I've not taken it over to the main community wiki, but here's the article as it stands right now. Once I reach the stage of adding screenshots, I'll migrate it to wiki.webgui.org. In the meantime, it's here: http://dev.icelus.tzo.com/wikidocs2/doc-wiki/how-to-make-webgui-look-like-your-site
05:28 < Radix__> I've done two entries to the WCC.. they're both how-to's I'd written previously and posted on the forums tho
05:28 < Radix__> how to use webgui to make a google sitemap for you, and how to add javascript form validation for non-webgui forms
05:28 < PedersenMJ> I'm only planning on the one, I admit. I'm just hoping it does well.
05:29 < PedersenMJ> I remember seeing the google sitemap entry. Now, to show my lack of knowledge about all things web: Is making a google sitemap genuinely worthwhile?
05:29 < Radix__> sure
05:30 < Radix__> if you want your content updates indexed by google faster and more accurately.. then it will do that
05:30 < Radix__> it'll also let you index pages that are harder for search engines to get at - ie. if you use some wierd javascript menu's or something like that
05:31 < Radix__> stuff that typically is harder to crawl
05:31 < PedersenMJ> Ah, like what Nishak was having issues with.
05:31 < Radix__> exactly
05:31 < Radix__> nearly all the major search engines are using that sitemap protocol too
05:31 < Radix__> google, yahoo, msn, ask, etc..
05:32 < PedersenMJ> Hmmm... Okay, I'll probably start using it once I get my own stuff in gear.
05:33 < Radix__> and with google at least you can log in, see whether they've had any problems indexing your site, etc - see when it was last indexed, etc - you wouldn't get that normally.
05:33 < PedersenMJ> Feels like my setup time is taking forever. This article, 3 (?) more themes, gaming sessions to prep for, programs to write for home (three of them), plus a novel. And I need to pay attention to my wife and work. Too much to do :)
05:35 < PedersenMJ> After I get these themes done, and get my sites in progress, I'm definitely going to login to Google, and learn something about optimizing properly.
05:36 < PedersenMJ> Wow... Somehow, my site actually gets top billing for the search term "nochara". I like that. Especially since that's where that novel will go.
05:44 < Radix__> :)
06:07 < PedersenMJ> Woohoo! I've only got 10 more TODO's on my page. Then some editing/proofing, and then (finally) screenshots.
06:11 < Radix__> heh.. cool
06:17 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I have a template variable question for you if you're still here.
06:32 <+perlDreamer> nm, you can change it in the docs if you don't like it
06:42 <+perlDreamer> VPN rocks
06:50 < snapcount_> ?
06:51 < snapcount_> you have vpn?
06:53 <+perlDreamer> I do
06:53 < snapcount_> to connect to work?
06:53 <+perlDreamer> Vegan Pretzel Nuggets
06:53 <+perlDreamer> they're great with hummus
06:54 <+perlDreamer> are you connected to the world again?
06:54 < snapcount_> yeah... just about ready to start the trouble shooting
06:56 <+perlDreamer> sweet
06:56 <+perlDreamer> now I can stop debugging the WSClient Asset
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07:21 <+perlDreamer> snapcount_: be sure to do an svn update.  I just committed the bug fix for the WS Client pagination variables.
07:21 < snapcount_> will do
07:22 < snapcount_> I think I may have just destroyed my dev machine again
07:22 < snapcount_> maybe not though
07:22 < snapcount_> sigh*
07:22 <+perlDreamer> how big is the dump?
07:30 < snapcount_> ok
07:31 < snapcount_> I think I can fix this but I need a live cd
07:31 < snapcount_> 600MB download
07:31 < snapcount_> getting about 600K/s right now
07:31 < snapcount_> so I have some time to kill
07:31 < snapcount_> I'm thinking of making something really cool!
07:31 <+perlDreamer> What?
07:32 < snapcount_> well I have a trunking police scanner
07:32 < snapcount_> but I recently found some software that will let you analyze the control stream
07:32 < snapcount_> so you can see the same screen a dispatcher or radio tech does
07:33 < snapcount_> here's a pic
07:33 < snapcount_> http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Image:Unitrunker.jpg
07:34 <+perlDreamer> you're going to bridge that into wG?
07:34 <+perlDreamer> or into an IRC bot...?
07:34 < snapcount_> don't give me any ideas
07:34 < snapcount_> ok.. so this software can also control another scanner
07:34 <+perlDreamer> have you seen Make magazine yet?
07:35 < snapcount_> so you can have the mission control screen and use it to track specific units etc
07:35 < snapcount_> regardless of what talkgroup they're using
07:35 < snapcount_> plus you can visualize whats going on
07:35 < snapcount_> so the contraption
07:36 < snapcount_> 1 - An SBC running XP or something
07:36 < snapcount_> 2 - A small touch screen monitor
07:37 < snapcount_> 3 - 2 scanners
07:37 < snapcount_> then gut everything out of its original casing
07:37 < snapcount_> and package it into a single unit
07:38 < snapcount_> the only tricky part is to make it work you have to tap into the discremenator output so you get the baseband signal
07:38 < snapcount_> before the scanner starts processing it
07:38 < snapcount_> so you can feed it into the soundcard of the SBC
07:39 < snapcount_> but the good news is that my scanner has a test point on the PCB for this signal
07:39 <+perlDreamer> it sounds like you have it all figured out!
07:40 < snapcount_> I'm going to see if I can get the software and stuff to work this weekend hopefully
07:40 < snapcount_> on an old pc
07:40 <+perlDreamer> I've been thinking about hacking the Daisy MP3 to use the new Ogg/Mp3 processing chip that just came out
07:40 < snapcount_> I just have to mod my scanner to tap into that point
07:41 < snapcount_> dude
07:41 < snapcount_> you are so far past me in electronic hacking skillz
07:41 <+perlDreamer> we'll see
07:41 <+perlDreamer> I'd be modding an existing design
07:41 <+perlDreamer> you're starting from scratch
07:42 < snapcount_> not really
07:42 < snapcount_> the only thing from scratch is the SBC and even that is just putting pieces together
07:42 < snapcount_> can you imagine how cool this thing would look mounted into a car
07:43 < snapcount_> tie in a nav system, mp3
07:43 < snapcount_> throw a wireless card into it for wardriving
07:43 < snapcount_> drive around and park somewhere, do a little webgui hacking, move on
07:44 <+perlDreamer> plus the scanners
07:44 < snapcount_> yeah
07:44 < snapcount_> hear something cool, go chase a fire engine or two
07:44 < snapcount_> put some netcams on the dash
07:44 < snapcount_> video some traffic stops
07:45 <+perlDreamer> with your EMS training you could be first on the scene and be helping out, too
07:45 < snapcount_> heh
07:45 < snapcount_> that prolly wouldn't go over well
07:45 < snapcount_> apparently there are people who do that
07:45 < snapcount_> drive around and "jump calls"
07:45 < snapcount_> most of them have no training or some basic training
07:46 < snapcount_> they get there, gawk and do nothing
07:46 <+perlDreamer> but you would.  That would make the difference.
07:46 < snapcount_> but the crews are like "were'nt you at the last 24 calls?"
07:46 <+perlDreamer> I'm sure JT will keep you busy enought that you'll only be good for a few per week
07:46 <+perlDreamer> plus your volunteer time
07:46 < snapcount_> haha
07:47 < snapcount_> I can't do anything except basic stuff anyway unless I'm employed
07:47 <+perlDreamer> how basic is basic?
07:47 <+perlDreamer> triage, bandaging, etc.?
07:48 < snapcount_> 1 - have to pass state and national registry testing, 2 - I can't legally use any of the skills I've learned unless I'm operating under the license of the county medical director
07:48 < snapcount_> basic would be things would be at the first responder level
07:48 < snapcount_> like a cop
07:48 < snapcount_> shock, cpr/aed
07:48 < snapcount_> bleeding control
07:49 < snapcount_> life threats but the interventions are limited big time
07:50 < snapcount_> as an EMT I can administer high flow oxygen, breathe for people, use airway adjuncts, immobilize them
07:50 < snapcount_> suction gunk from the nose and throat
07:51 <+perlDreamer> eh.  I've done that.
07:51 <+perlDreamer> Far too often...
07:51 <+perlDreamer> :(
07:51 < snapcount_> you've done all of that stuff?
07:52 < snapcount_> the biggest part of my training is really patient and incident assessment
07:52 < snapcount_> our interventions are pretty basic
07:52 < snapcount_> I can treat life threats and figure out what resources we need
07:53 < snapcount_> all of the fun stuff comes with the next level EMT-P
07:53 <+perlDreamer> No, the gunk sucking
07:53 <+perlDreamer> (I have kids)
07:54 < snapcount_> then you get to play with drugs, do surgical interventions, use cardiac monitors, intubate people
07:54 < snapcount_> ahh
07:54 < snapcount_> suction is cool... I haven't used it on a real human before though
07:54 < snapcount_> my first patient contact will be 1 week from today
07:55 <+perlDreamer> ride along or simulation?
07:55 < snapcount_> clinicals
07:55 < snapcount_> I'll be on an ambulance for 12 hours
07:55 < snapcount_> race week too
07:55 < snapcount_> week after that I'll be in an ER for 12 hours
07:56 <+perlDreamer> what is race week?
07:56 < snapcount_> NASCAR
07:56 < snapcount_> daytona 500 and associated madness
07:56 < snapcount_> "The Superbowl of motorsports"
07:57 < snapcount_> our population will grow from 65,000 to 150,000
07:57 < snapcount_> maybe more
07:57 < snapcount_> during bike week, they say it gets up to about 500,000
07:57 < snapcount_> we call it "trauma week"
07:58 < snapcount_> last year they were dispatched to 200+ motorcycle accidents
07:58 < snapcount_> that's a lot for one week
07:58 < snapcount_> I have a ride that week too
07:59 < snapcount_> woo hoo!
07:59 <+perlDreamer> "Slicing a warm slab of bacon is a lot like giving a ferret a shave. No matter how careful you are, somebody's going to get hurt."
07:59 < snapcount_> cd is downloaded
07:59 < snapcount_> now to burn it and fix my dev instance
07:59 < snapcount_> heh
08:02 <+perlDreamer> Alton Brown quotes
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08:04 < snapcount_> burn initialized
08:04 < snapcount_> crythias is here!
08:04 <+perlDreamer> it's true
08:04 < snapcount_> we were just talking about you the other day
08:05 <+perlDreamer> he's been in and out all day
08:05 < snapcount_> ah
08:05 <+crythias> ?
08:05 < snapcount_> we were saying awful things about you the other day
08:05 < snapcount_> noticed you were here so I decided to warn Colin =D
08:06 <+crythias> heh
08:06 < snapcount_> do you still live in FL?
08:06 <+crythias> yeah
08:06 < snapcount_> Tampa area right
08:06 <+crythias> Naples area
08:06 < snapcount_> south west?
08:07 <+crythias> yeah
08:07 < snapcount_> yikes
08:07 < snapcount_> you're further than I thought
08:07 < snapcount_> Colin said we should meet up for coffee
08:07 < snapcount_> that's a long haul =)
08:07 <+crythias> 2 where?
08:07 < snapcount_> Daytona Beach to Naples
08:07 <+perlDreamer> well, it would still be easier for you two than for me
08:08 < snapcount_> ok, you got me there
08:08  * crythias waits for 7.3.9 ...
08:08 < snapcount_> if we met up Colin it would have to be in Nebraska
08:08 < snapcount_> maybe OK
08:08 < snapcount_> not sure where middle ground would be
08:08 <+perlDreamer> Wisconsin?
08:08 < snapcount_> indeed
08:08 < snapcount_> crythias: I'm trying to get my $h!t together
08:09  * crythias hands you some pepto bismol
08:09 < snapcount_> perlDreamer and I want to figure this out so I can release
08:09 < snapcount_> hopefully tonight
08:09  * snapcount_ nods and mumbles thank you
08:09 <+perlDreamer> actually, crythias, we could have used you in the channel earlier today
08:09 < snapcount_> knoppix is almost done burning
08:10 <+crythias> ?
08:10 <+perlDreamer> someone was having mime type problems with the HTTP proxy and we were trying to figure out Apache configs
08:10 <+perlDreamer> for telling it the MIME type of an arbitrary data file
08:10 <+crythias> hm. wooty freshness
08:10 < snapcount_> I couldn't remember the proper way to do a Redirect 301 / http://foo.bar.com/ earlier today
08:10 <+crythias> yeah... magic something ..
08:10 < snapcount_> amazing how many different ways I got it wrong
08:11 < snapcount_> woot!
08:11 <+perlDreamer> we eventually found it, but wG still wants to wrap this thing instead of letting the user download it
08:11 < snapcount_> what's the deal for tonight?
08:11 <+crythias> media center pc
08:11 < snapcount_> $?
08:12 <+crythias> 720
08:12 <+perlDreamer> what does it come with?
08:12 <+crythias> 1 							HP Pavilion M7560N Media Center PC - Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4200+, 2GB RAM, 320GB SATA 3G and more
08:12 < snapcount_> Really?!
08:12 <+crythias> remote..
08:12 <+crythias> and the idjots say it's too expensive
08:12 < snapcount_> monitor?
08:12 <+crythias> no
08:13 < snapcount_> still a good price
08:13 < snapcount_> is it new or refurb?
08:13 < snapcount_> I guess I could go look =)
08:13 < snapcount_> sorry
08:13 <+perlDreamer> snapcount needs one of these
08:13 <+crythias> "already built one for half the price..."
08:13 <+crythias> no he didn't.
08:13 < snapcount_> sure they did
08:13 <+crythias> I mean, no ... he didn't.
08:14 < snapcount_> haha
08:14 < snapcount_> I need one of the micro form factor motherboards
08:14 <+crythias> "I could easily build one fore under $300.  This is a sham w00t!  A real knock-up job!"
08:14 < snapcount_> forget the spec
08:15 <+crythias> no, not legit, I'm so proud of the boasters.
08:15 <+crythias> considering TFOS is $200 if you can get it.
08:15 <+crythias> and 320GB HD ... not much under $200
08:16 <+crythias> 2GB RAM? ... no, I'm sorry, idjots cannot build his PC for $300
08:16 <+crythias> new, 1 year warranty...
08:16 < snapcount_> I'm sitting on 4 250GB baracudas right now
08:16 < snapcount_> and various other parts
08:16 < snapcount_> my media pc project from november
08:17 < snapcount_> back burnered to pay off some student loans
08:17 < snapcount_> which are paid off now so hmm
08:17 <+crythias> This is one of two boxes I get for my office: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2787756&Sku=SYXS-DB-989458
08:17 < snapcount_> heh... I'm booting knoppix inside of parallels
08:18 < snapcount_> this is k001
08:18 <+perlDreamer> no rhel?
08:18 < snapcount_> l33tz
08:18 <+perlDreamer> I've closed out two projects tonight
08:18 <+perlDreamer> yeah!
08:18 < snapcount_> I'm going to fix the partition for webgui which centos
08:18 < snapcount_> but it runs in parallels
08:19 < snapcount_> I booted that VM
08:19 <+crythias> This is the standard box I get for my users: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2848301&CatId=6
08:19 < snapcount_> with this cd in the drive so I could fix it
08:19 < snapcount_> so I'm using the VM to fix the VM
08:19 <+perlDreamer> that's funny
08:20 < snapcount_> wtf is the root password on knoppix
08:20 <+perlDreamer> there isn't one
08:20 <+crythias> you should be able to su
08:20 < snapcount_> well I'm in gnome
08:21 < snapcount_> and I launched gparted
08:21 < snapcount_> now it wants root password
08:21 <+crythias> su first
08:21 < snapcount_> ahh good idea
08:21 <+crythias> from term
08:21 <+perlDreamer> ++crythias
08:21 < snapcount_> indeed
08:21 < snapcount_> fart smeller =D
08:21 <+crythias> this is the laptop I get for my users: http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/HP_Compaq_Business_Notebook_nx6325/RB545UTABA/K37031/
08:21 <+perlDreamer> hey, I have to do something will all this karma
08:21 <+crythias> 776.43
08:21 <+perlDreamer> does it run linux?
08:22 <+crythias> sure. why not.
08:22 <+crythias> actually, the Mandriva 2007 livecd seems to do ok.
08:22 <+perlDreamer> that's a good indicator
08:22 <+crythias> but of course I wouldn't go for an xp pro box if I wanted it for Linux.
08:23 <+perlDreamer> but I have to buy intel
08:23 <+perlDreamer> (supporing the local economy and all that)
08:23 <+crythias> ah
08:23 <+perlDreamer> I live in Hillsboro
08:23 <+crythias> yeah, this'd be amd
08:23 <+perlDreamer> In Hillsboro, everything is across the street from Intel
08:24 <+crythias> cheapy: http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/HP_510/RU961AAABA/L38396/
08:25 <+crythias> http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/Lenovo_3000_N100_0689/06893KU/K00656/
08:25 <+crythias> This would be a fun box to run linux
08:26 <+crythias> $574
08:26 <+crythias> Lenovo 3000 N100 0689 - Celeron M 420 / 1.6 GHz - RAM : 512 MB - HD : 100 GB - DVD±R (+R DL) - WLAN : Bluetooth, 802.11a/b/g - fingerprint - Win XP Home - 14.1" Widescreen TFT 1280 x 800 ( WXGA )MFG Part #: <font size="3">06893KU</font>
08:26 <+perlDreamer> I've gotten attached to the Dell 6000's with a 17" screen.
08:27 <+perlDreamer> give us a status update, snapcount
08:28 <+crythias> <font size="3">http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/Sony_VAIO_AR_Digital_Studio_AR320E/VGNAR320E/L76885/</font>
08:28 <+perlDreamer> 7.3.9 has 47 fixed bugs
08:29 <+perlDreamer> not bad
08:29 < snapcount_> dude
08:29 < snapcount_> gparted is so awesome
08:29 <+perlDreamer> can you fix it, Doctor?
08:29 < snapcount_> looks like it
08:30 < snapcount_> so here's the short version
08:30 < snapcount_> had a vm with 8000 MB of storage
08:30 < snapcount_> used parallels tool to change that to 20000 MB
08:30 < snapcount_> then gparted on knoppix cd to move swap partition to the end of the disk
08:30 < snapcount_> and expanded / partition to use the rest of the space
08:31 < snapcount_> by dragging a little box
08:31 <+perlDreamer> now you try to upload the dump?
08:32 < snapcount_> well it has to finish the resize
08:33 <+crythias> <font size="3">http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/HP_Compaq_Business_Notebook_nx9420/RB549UTABA/K52208/</font>
08:33 < snapcount_> then a quick wre install
08:33 < snapcount_> then upload
08:33 <+crythias> Smart Buy Nx9420 T7200 2.0g 1gb 100gb Dvdrw 17-wsxga+ Wl Bt Bfp Xpp
08:33 < snapcount_> wre will take me 5 mins
08:33 <+perlDreamer> I might have to pack it in for tonight
08:33 <+perlDreamer> we old folks need our sleep
08:33 < snapcount_> sweet /dev/hda2 is now 18GB
08:34 < snapcount_> lets see if it will still boot =/
08:34 <+perlDreamer> /perlDreamer hopes that the version tags were already open before the upgrade :/
08:34 < snapcount_> I'm very impressed with knoppix
08:34 < snapcount_> very cool UI
08:35 < snapcount_> sweet
08:35 <+perlDreamer> nice transparency
08:35 < snapcount_> it's booting
08:36 < snapcount_> sweet
08:36 < snapcount_> looks good
08:36 < snapcount_> wre install time
08:41 <+perlDreamer> okay, heading to bed
08:41 <+perlDreamer> I'll give you a holler tomorrow morning
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14:50 < pjesi> anyone using YUI here?
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17:59 <+perlDreamer> preaction: what is a recurId?
17:59 <+perlDreamer> preaction__: if preaction doesn't know, do you?
18:08 < pjesi> is the ical import feed working? I dont get any events from large ical feeds
18:09 <+perlDreamer> The bug for iCal in the Calendar was closed, so I'm assuming that it was fixed.
18:09 <+perlDreamer> but I haven't tested it myself
18:10 <+perlDreamer> of course, that bug fix is in 7.3.9
18:10 <+perlDreamer> which isn't released yet
18:10 < pjesi> I see
18:25 <+perlDreamer> we're hoping to get out 7.3.9 today
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18:37 < pjesi> great news
18:39 <+perlDreamer> did you manage to get your database converted yesterday?
18:41 < pjesi> no it is not possible
18:42 < pjesi> my.conf was set to latin1 so the dump had russian and icelandic chars that could not be recovered
18:47 <+perlDreamer> what about changing the setting on the new db to import the old db in the correct format, then translate it in the new db?
18:50 -!- preaction__ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
18:50 <+perlDreamer> don't worry, he'll be back
18:50 < pjesi> it didnt work
18:50 < pjesi> we will wait to get new dump
18:58  * perlDreamer goes afk
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19:48 <+crythias> due
19:48 <+crythias> dude
19:48 <+crythias> http://meritline.stores.yahoo.net/kingston-1gb-micro-sd-card.html
19:48 <+crythias> just .. fyi if you're interested
19:48 <+crythias> 1GB MICRO SD (w/adapter) $9.95
19:49 <+crythias> free ship, no rebate
19:49 <+crythias> for cell phones...
19:50 <+crythias> or cameras... practically anything SD
19:55 <+perlDreamer> that's nice
19:55 < greghacke> now if i could run a complete wG VM in there...
19:56 <+perlDreamer> buy two, they're cheap :)
19:57 <+perlDreamer> I'll be back later, have fun guys
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20:00 <+crythias> http://meritline.stores.yahoo.net/usb-sd-mmc-rs-mmc-memory-card-reader-writer-black.html
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21:37 < cap10morgan> Is 7.3.9 recommended for everyone over 7.3.8? i noticed it hasn't been announced yet on the home page.
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22:52 < greghacke> question on SQL Report.  I have a report with 2 subqueries.  i have set display to paginate at 10.  when i view the report, it shows every record of the first query.
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23:04 <+perlDreamer> whoa
23:04 <+perlDreamer> everybody showed up!
23:09 < greghacke> pD: how good are you with SQL Report?
23:13 <+perlDreamer> I'm so so.  SQL isn't my strong suit
23:13 <+perlDreamer> what's up?
23:14 < greghacke> not really SQL - more a templating issue (maybe)  I have a report with 2 subqueries.  i have set display to paginate at 10.  when i view the report, it shows every record of the first query.
23:16 <+perlDreamer> hmmm
23:16 <+perlDreamer> can you set something up where I can look at it?
23:16 < greghacke> sure.  let me think of where...
23:16 < greghacke> well...
23:18 < greghacke> http://web307.plainblack.net/products/board-war-games - the set is 3 queries.  I have Paginate After set to 10.
23:18 < greghacke> of course i use a custome template but it's pretty rudimentary and has all the paginate stuff in it.
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23:25 <+perlDreamer> I think this is a bug
23:26 < greghacke> me too.  it ignores paginate.  going to kick the tires woth some generic reports and see if i get the same.
23:27 < cap10morgan> I'm trying to compile the WRE on Mac OS X Intel, and it's failing when trying to link libpng w/ zlib. It's looking in ../zlib for that, but there is no zlib dir in source/imagemagick (which is one directory up from the libpng source dir). Any clue where the bug is here?
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23:28 <+perlDreamer> don't worry, he'll be back
23:29 < greghacke> always is ;)
23:29 < cap10morgan> ah ha, it's in utils
23:29 < cap10morgan> but libpng is not
23:29 < cap10morgan> seems like a bug in the build script
23:38 < cap10morgan> hmm, it's in the makefile.darwin from upstream
23:38 < cap10morgan> interesting...
23:38 < cap10morgan> well, it's in makefile.linux too
23:39 < cap10morgan> i don't understand how this compiles on either platform then
23:39 < cap10morgan> maybe it doesn't? :)
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23:43 <+perlDreamer> I've never compiled the WRE
23:45 <@preaction> wtf why is there a clone in here?
23:46 <@preaction> ... why is it even online? it shouldn't be working
23:46 <+perlDreamer> preaction is a pod person
23:46 <@preaction> my wireless router hasn't been connecting to the internet in weeks
23:46 <@preaction> and here it is, connected to the internet with a clone
23:47 <@preaction> not truly a clone i guess, since i'm pirating a wifi signal from my landlord downstairs
23:49 <+perlDreamer> is it a good idea to say that on a logged and searchable IRC channel?
23:49 <@preaction> whos logging it?
23:49 <@preaction> gooeybot hasn't been active since the clone's system rebooted itself because of a heating problem it has
23:50 <+perlDreamer> I don't know
23:50 <+perlDreamer> the archives are on mentalhouse.net
23:50 <+perlDreamer> http://web307.plainblack.net/products/board-war-games
23:50 <+perlDreamer> um, no
23:50 <+perlDreamer> http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/2007-02.log
23:51 <@preaction> i'll put money on Radix
23:53 <@preaction> strangely enough, my wireless seems to work better when it's on the same channel as the landlord's wireless...
23:53 <+perlDreamer> how convenient
23:54 <+perlDreamer> I have a little feedback for you about template variables
23:54 <@preaction> it's weird though, it's supposed to be causing interference
23:54 <@preaction> ok
23:54 <+perlDreamer> altering the name of inherited template variables in a loop is not good for maintenance
23:54 <@preaction> they have to be altered else they'll hide the calendar ones
23:54 <+perlDreamer> but will they be used down inside the loop?
23:55 <@preaction> the calendar ones? who knows
23:56 <+perlDreamer> so now, instead of using the Help system inheritance, they all have to be documented by hand
23:56 <+perlDreamer> and kept in sync by hand
23:56 <@preaction> perhaps someone wants to say "<eventTitle>, coming this week of <eventDate> from <calendarTitle>"
23:56 <@preaction> you could use that same loop ;)
23:56 <+perlDreamer> all I'm saying is that next time you might choose to use unique names instead of renaming them
23:56 <@preaction> to pull it from the $HELP structure of the Event help file
23:57 <@preaction> i can't, i'm using $self->get, they're the names of the columns in the asset information
23:57 <+perlDreamer> they can be renamed too
23:57 <+perlDreamer> oh, except for title
23:57 <+perlDreamer> hm
23:57 <+perlDreamer> and url
23:57 <+perlDreamer> all the asset level ones
23:58 <+perlDreamer> maybe I need to extend the variable inheritance to do variable renaming, too
23:58 <+perlDreamer> :-/
23:58 < pjesi> strange, I am upgrading my AJAX calendar month template and there doesnt seem to be any previousMonth template variable
23:58 <@preaction> or just do a lookup with a map
23:58 < pjesi> has it been completly remove for the 12 month links?
23:58 <@preaction> pjesi: completely removed for the 12 month links, but RFE that
23:59 <@preaction> i get tired of having to click "2007" and then "Jan" when i want to move from Dec 2006 to Jan 2007
23:59 < pjesi> it will take us shorter time to patch Calendar.pm than RFE ut
23:59 < pjesi> it*
--- Day changed Sun Feb 11 2007
00:00 <@preaction> but you still have to go through proper channels, make the diff, attach it to the RFE, and once 7.4 is branched i'll add it immediately
00:01 <+perlDreamer> patches make bugs and RFEs much easier to implement
00:05  * perlDreamer goes afk
00:06 < greghacke> So I kicked that SQL Report thing again, pD.  3 queries, stacked using default template.  set paginate to 10.  still shows everything
00:06 < greghacke> as he afk's.  oops
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01:16 < Ingrid> Would this be a good place, and time, to ask for help getting passthruUrls working?
01:20 < Ingrid> whois perlbot
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01:50 < IngridTegner> Would this be a good place to ask for help getting passthruUrls to work?
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01:56 <+perlDreamer> yes, but three minutes is too short to wait
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03:52 < Radix__> perlDreamer, if she comes back - http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/how-to-get-passthruurls-to-work
04:16 <+perlDreamer> nice work, Radix
04:26 < pjesi_> does anyone have idea when head.tags from Layout templates do not show up in output?
04:27 <@preaction> should be part of your style template, no
04:27 <@preaction> ?
04:27 <@preaction> can you give a URL?
04:35 < pjesi_> well, layout templates are associated with different stylesheets
04:36 < pjesi_> dont have url yet
04:37 < pjesi_> we had the <link stuff in the Head Body of the template
04:37 < pjesi_> but it is never rendered
04:37 <@preaction> you put the <link> stuff in the "Extra Head Tags" area of the template?
04:38 <@preaction> and you have the appropriate area in your style template for them to be placed?
04:38 <@preaction> <tmpl_var head.tags> if i remember correctly
04:39 < pjesi_> yes
04:39 < pjesi_> it works on 7.0.8
04:41 < pjesi_> and it works on our new 7.3.8 templates, so I figured something about the old templates might be the problem
04:43 < pjesi_> I think it might be from the problem we had the the mysql encoding
05:14 < pjesi_> it renders webgui's head.tags, but nothing from the templates
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06:00 < rmiller> anyone awake
06:00 < rmiller> ?
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06:00 <+crythias> sure
06:00 < specsmu> hooray
06:00 < specsmu> :)
06:00 < specsmu> I want to upgrade a copy of 6.8.6 to the latest version
06:00 < specsmu> do I have to do any intermediate upgrades first?
06:00 <+crythias> read my unofficial faq
06:01 < specsmu> url pls?
06:01 <+crythias> i dunno
06:01 <+crythias> heh
06:01 <+crythias> www.gwy2.org/cgi-bin/fom
06:02 < specsmu> hmm
06:04 <+crythias> ?
06:04 <+crythias> http://www.gwy2.org/fomfiles/cache/52.html <-- most important
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06:06 < rmiller> grrrr
06:06 -!- rmiller is now known as specsmu_
06:06 <+crythias> ?
06:06 < specsmu_> I'm saying at a hotel and they wanted more money
06:07 < specsmu_> so they cut me off, and apparently assigned me a NEW address
06:07 < specsmu_> so all my connections went byebye
06:07 <+crythias> ah
06:08 < specsmu_> so what I need to do is overlay the new on top of the old and then read the gotchas file?
06:09 <+crythias> yeahbut... at least one stop
06:09 < specsmu_> I didn't see it in your unofficial faq.. which stop is that?
06:09 <+crythias> Current Upgrade path is 6.2.11 -> 6.6.5 -> 6.8.10 -> 7.1.3 -> 7.2.x Do NOT skip steps.
06:09 <+crythias> http://www.gwy2.org/fomfiles/cache/52.html
06:10 <+perlDreamer> we should put the upgrade path into the Wiki
06:10 < specsmu_> so it looks like I'll have two stops.
06:11 < specsmu_> one to 6.8.10 from 6.8.6, and then to 7.1.3
06:11 < specsmu_> you know
06:11 < specsmu_> I really do like the feature set of webgui
06:11 < specsmu_> but trying to keep it up to date is a freaking moving target
06:12 <+perlDreamer> if you wait until 7.3.9 comes out, you can skip the 7.1.3 step
06:12 < specsmu_> when's that gonna be?
06:12 <+perlDreamer> it was supposed to be last Wednesday
06:12 <+perlDreamer> but the release has been delayed
06:12 < specsmu_> how long?
06:13 <+perlDreamer> not sure
06:13 < specsmu_> oh, crap, I forgot the mysql root password
06:13 <+crythias> ?
06:14 <+perlDreamer> there's a way around that on MySQL's site
06:14 < specsmu_> I'm setting up a mirror webgui install on port 81
06:14 < specsmu_> so I can upgrade the new version and test it out
06:14 <+perlDreamer> just google for "reset root password MySQL"
06:14 < specsmu_> before switching the production version to it
06:14 < specsmu_> I know.. it's just embarassing
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06:25 < specsmu_> oh, that was idiotic.
06:28 < specsmu_> I've been spending way too much time with sybase
06:28 < specsmu_> I keep having to stop myself from typing GO after every command
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06:39 <+perlDreamer> specsmu_: what do you do with WebGUI?
06:42 < specsmu_> customer site
06:42 < specsmu_> he wanted something that he wouldn't have to code to use once I set it up
06:42 < specsmu_> I am seriously regretting that decision
06:43 < specsmu_> it was kind of like killing an ant witha  wrecking ball
06:43 <+perlDreamer> it must be a small site
06:43 < specsmu_> it is
06:43 < specsmu_> well, I have the separate site set up...
06:44 <+perlDreamer> preaction: you awake there, dude?
06:44 <@preaction> yes'm
06:44 <+perlDreamer> I don't understand something with the calendar day view template variables
06:45 <+perlDreamer> can you set me straight please?
06:45 <@preaction> it's like the week, only broken into hours
06:45 <+perlDreamer> that part I get
06:45 <@preaction> hours that only exist if there's an event in the hour
06:45 <+perlDreamer> If I have two events in the same hour, how do I access their information individually?
06:45 <@preaction> there's an events loop in each hour, no?
06:46 <+perlDreamer> ah
06:46 <+perlDreamer> thanks, man!
06:46 <@preaction> i probably added them rather weirdly
06:46 <+perlDreamer> the combination of indexing and pushing threw me off
06:53 <+perlDreamer> do you think this code based approach to documentation is nuts?
06:53 <+crythias> who reads code to figure out how to do things?
06:53 <+perlDreamer> me
06:53 <+crythias> end user=wise
06:54 <+perlDreamer> the Help code generates the documentation
06:54 <+perlDreamer> the idea being it can be shared among different entries
06:54 <+perlDreamer> and even provide the basis for the template variable editor
06:56 <+perlDreamer> oh, and generally speaking, end user != wise
07:00 <+crythias> meant enduser-wise but agree
07:10 <@preaction> i think it'd be better to use some sort of Pod::HTML parser thingy
07:11 <@preaction> it'd be nice to be able to update the documentation from inside the code
07:11 <@preaction> rather, right next to the same code
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07:18 <+perlDreamer> preaction: the problem with that is translation.
07:18 <+perlDreamer> we'll always be pulling out i18n tags
07:18 <@preaction> yeah, i've been trying to come up with a way around that
07:19 <+perlDreamer> any progress?
07:19 <+crythias> expat
07:19 <@preaction> none, besides making different language help files
07:19 <@preaction> or using yaml instead perhaps?
07:19 <+crythias> hee
07:19 <@preaction> hell, we could use yaml right now with no need to change anything
07:19 <+perlDreamer> true
07:19 <+crythias> imbed json between cut and head
07:19 <+perlDreamer> but what does it buy?
07:19 <@preaction> and yaml is easier to read
07:19 <+perlDreamer> than perl?
07:20 <+perlDreamer> I don't think so
07:20 <@preaction> we're dealing with either (a) Data::Dumper output or (b) a markup language
07:20 <@preaction> same diff i guess
07:20 <+perlDreamer> there's one advantage to doing it in perl that I've found
07:20 <+perlDreamer> and that's autogenerating information
07:21 <+crythias> too bad you couldn't i8n merge code on the fly
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07:21 <+crythias> using i18n tagged codes that pulled from the i18n db when pod2html runs.
07:22 <+crythias> using the existing WebGUI i18n thing to document itself.
07:22 <+crythias> nah.
07:22 <+crythias> forget it.
07:22 <+perlDreamer> that's what it does now
07:23 <+perlDreamer> the help is built up of sets of tags
07:23 <+crythias> depends.
07:23 <+crythias> are you talking about help or documentation?
07:23 <@preaction> there's a difference?
07:23 <@preaction> the on-line help
07:23 <@preaction> not the code docs
07:23 <+crythias> that is the difference.
07:25 <+perlDreamer> code docs are for API/developers
07:25 <+perlDreamer> on-line help is for application users
07:25 <+perlDreamer> they're different audiences
07:25 <+perlDreamer> I keep thinking about this because I don't know of any other project that does documentation this way
07:25 <+perlDreamer> but I also don't know of any other project where the docs are linked so deeply into the code
07:25  * crythias is confused.
07:25 <+perlDreamer> hoverHelp is pulled from the help docs
07:26 <@preaction> i always thought the other way around, the help docs are built from hoverHep
07:26 <+crythias> What is the issue? I thought I was talking about code documentation.
07:26 <+perlDreamer> It's both ways.  I think of it the other way because we fractured the help to make the hoverHelp
07:27 <+perlDreamer> crythias, the online docs are written, really structured, as code
07:29 <+perlDreamer> It's very handy sometimes
07:29 <+crythias> head/cut or something else?
07:30 <+perlDreamer> I don't know what you mean by that
07:30 <+crythias> nm
07:30 <+crythias> we're talking about two different things
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16:36 < pjesi_> we have narrowed the bug with the head.tags
16:37 < pjesi_> if the template has namespace Layout then it does not print head tags for that template
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17:38 < wgGuest60> inurl:"com_pollxt"
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17:47 < pjesi_> bug fixed
17:50 < Hinrik> the fix is http://paste2.org/p/1292
17:50 < Hinrik> webgui devs: any idea why this is needed?
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20:50 <+perlDreamer> sunday must be a quiet day
20:53 < Hinrik> hm
20:54 < Hinrik> perlDreamer: http://paste2.org/p/1292
20:54 < Hinrik> any idea why this is needed so that head blocks for Layouts make it to the final page?
20:56 <+perlDreamer> your patch has two parts
20:57 <+perlDreamer> the changes to Wobject/Layout are probably valid
20:57 <+perlDreamer> but the second set, in Style.pm, would cause problems since you'd be internally accumulating tags
20:57 <+perlDreamer> that are also being sent out
20:59 <+perlDreamer> are both sets of changes needed to make the head block work with the Layout?
21:00 <+perlDreamer> why would you choose to put head tags in the Layout headblock vs the Style headblock?
21:01 <+perlDreamer> do you have meta information that depends on the arrangement of assets on the page?
21:01 <+perlDreamer> actually, that's kind of beside the point
21:01 <+perlDreamer> you'd expect the head tags to work anywhere
21:03 <+perlDreamer> Hinrik: I recommend that you file the first part of the patch as a bug report.  In the report, you should also recommend that all Assets that override prepareView be checked to make sure they properly process the template head block
21:08 < pjesi_> perlDreamer @Layout headblock vs the Style headblock, layouts using the same Style are using different CSS
21:09 <+perlDreamer> okay, that makes sense
21:10 < pjesi_> it seems logical
21:12 < Hinrik> the latter change is just a rollback of a change that was made in an earlier version (don't know which)
21:12 < Hinrik> we upgraded from 7.0.7 to 7.3.8
21:12 < Hinrik> I don't know why the the upper change is also needed to make it wor
21:12 < Hinrik> k
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21:13 < Hinrik> that is, the latter patch makes Style.pm handle tags the way it did in 7.0.7
21:14 < cap10morgan> does anyone know if they had to do something weird to get the WRE to compile on OS X ppc?
21:14 < pjesi_> it is strange that all Assets except Layout can have head tags
21:14 < cap10morgan> i'm compiling on OS X intel, but there are some problems i'm running into that don't seem to be arch-related
21:14 < pjesi_> asset templates that is
21:27 < ckotil> cap10morgan:  i tried to compile the wre once on my imac running osx 10.4 and was unsuccessful
21:28 < cap10morgan> ckotil: yeah, it's kinda tricky
21:28 < cap10morgan> i think i'm close
21:28 < cap10morgan> but there is a ppc64 build to download that (i assume) pb compiled
21:28 < ckotil> ive tried to compile wre in fbsd 6.1 and 5.x too
21:28 < cap10morgan> i'm going to post everything i had to do to get it to compile as a contribution if/when i get it
21:28 < ckotil> nice.
21:34 < cap10morgan> just upgrading the source tarballs for the prereqs fixes a lot
21:34 < cap10morgan> specifically openssl 0.9.7i -> 0.9.7l
21:34 < cap10morgan> and mysql-5.0.22 -> 5.0.33
21:35 < cap10morgan> and libpng 1.2.10 -> 1.2.16 (with some additional fixes to the makefile.darwin
21:35 < cap10morgan> )
21:36 < cap10morgan> ckotil: is your imac intel or powerpc?
21:36 < pjesi> dsf
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21:42 < greghacke> anyone know why the template variables in SQLForm/Search are both undocumented and non-functional?  :-)
21:44 < ckotil> intel
21:45 < ckotil> greghacke: i experienced it the other day
21:45 < ckotil> very annoying. i was trying to create a template that would create a link to a url that was returned.
21:46 < ckotil> i was going to ust html::template::expr to accomplish this, the column i wanted to make a link out of was the 4th column so i tried using an expression, but it didnt work as expected.
21:46 < greghacke> yeah - finding that the help and template files are incorrect.
21:47 < greghacke> preaction: are you around?
21:49 < ckotil> cap10morgan: thats good to know about simply upgrading the source tar's
21:49 < cap10morgan> ckotil: it doesn't get you all the way there, but i'll post the details when i get it working (assuming i do)
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22:46 <+perlDreamer> just a general comment here
22:46 <+perlDreamer> pointing out on IRC that things are broken won't get them fixed
22:46 <+perlDreamer> you either need to patch them, or report them as bugs
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22:50 < ckotil> doh. 
22:50 < ckotil> its good to clarify the problem first
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23:01 < greghacke> Ok, SQLForm - although exceptional in idea - is quite possibly the worst documented utility I have ever seen.
23:02 < ckotil> heh
23:12 < greghacke> preaction: are you around yet?
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00:41 <@preaction> greghacke: i'm around now
00:42 < greghacke> is good now.  beat through the templating, found issues, submitted bug.
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01:44 -!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: #WebGUI [ Current: 7.3.8-stable ][ WRE: 0.7.2 ] What should I do with this extra savoir-faire?
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03:40 <+perlDreamer> It's amazing the amount of damage 1 7-year old can do to a CAT-5 cable
03:41 < Radix-wrk> heh.. what kind of damage are you talking about?  as in physical damage, or amount downloaded in a short space of time?
03:41 < Hinrik> probably both
03:41 < Radix-wrk> I've seen both kinds of damage, and both are pretty horrific :)
03:41 <+perlDreamer> physical damage
03:41 <+perlDreamer> We don't let them use the computer unattended
03:42 <+perlDreamer> It's kind of like taking kids to a bookstore.
03:42 <+perlDreamer> or a library
03:42 <+perlDreamer> It's a wonderful place full of stories and knowledge.
03:42 <+perlDreamer> and a whole lotta crap as well
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05:02 < rmiller> hihihi
05:02 -!- rmiller is now known as specsmu
05:03 < specsmu> I'm confused by the 7.1.3 gotcha file
05:03 < specsmu> it goes from 6.8.4 to 6.99.0
05:03 < specsmu> I'm running 6.8.10
05:03 < specsmu> is there something I should know there?
05:05 < Radix-wrk> 6.99.x were the version 7 betas
05:06 < specsmu> ahh
05:38 < specsmu> about to try an upgrade from 6.8.10 to 7.1.3
05:39 < specsmu> wish me luck
05:51 < specsmu> well, so far so good
05:51 < specsmu> woo.
05:51  * specsmu waves finger in circle
05:52 < specsmu> aww crap.
05:54 < specsmu> *whew*
05:54 < specsmu> hmm.  seems to have lost its stylesheet/template
05:56 < specsmu> so I should be able to go directly from 7.1.3 to 7.3.8?
06:03 < specsmu> ok, done.
06:03 < specsmu> so...
06:03 < specsmu> how do I get the login widget back?
06:04 < specsmu> it appears to have been part of the templates, and the main template completely vanished
06:11 <@preaction> specsmu: the ^L macro?
06:11 < specsmu> well, actually, the entire template seems to have gone titsup
06:11 < specsmu> left navigation is gone, as well as any reference to the stylesheet
06:11 < specsmu> but yeah.
06:12 <@preaction> which template? did you make it by altering a core template?
06:12 < specsmu> no.
06:12 < specsmu> well... yeah
06:12 < specsmu> I altered the main page widget
06:12 <@preaction> so the template in question had the same ID as a core template
06:12 < specsmu> yeah.
06:12 <@preaction> what's a widget? we need to be on the same page :p
06:13 <@preaction> a macro?
06:13 < specsmu> I basically took the home template from the base install and modified it.
06:13 <@preaction> an Asset?
06:13 < specsmu> ok, I'll start from the beginning
06:13 <@preaction> yeah, the template might've been deleted by its ID
06:13 < specsmu> hmm, ok
06:13 <@preaction> or altered based on its ID
06:13 < specsmu> but that leaves me with no way to log in
06:13 < specsmu> how do I do that?
06:14 < specsmu> I can get it back fairly easily
06:14 < specsmu> (from the production)
06:14 <@preaction> ?op=auth;method=login;username=<>;identifier=<> <-- if i remember correctly
06:14 < specsmu> but I have to be able to log in to do it
06:14 <@preaction> if that doesn't work, i'll get the real way
06:14 < specsmu> identifier meaning password?
06:15 <@preaction> yeah
06:15 <@preaction> don't ask me why they used identifier instead of password, but whatevz
06:15 < specsmu> oh good.  a "turn admin on" appeared
06:15 < specsmu> yippee!!!
06:15 < specsmu> thanks.
06:15 <@preaction> otherwise ?op=switchOnAdmin I believe
06:17 < specsmu> yup.  It overwrote it.
06:18 < specsmu> if that's the only problem, though, I'll consider myself lucky.
06:18 < specsmu> YAY
06:18 < specsmu> hmm.  that's strange.
06:19 < specsmu> I committed it, but it said it wold take a while
06:19 <@preaction> it always does now
06:19 < specsmu> about how long?
06:19 <@preaction> with the wonders of version tags and spectre
06:19 <@preaction> usually instantaneously, depending on how backed up spectre is
06:19 < specsmu> shouldn't be backed up at all
06:19 <@preaction> a few seconds then
06:20 < specsmu> hmm
06:20 <@preaction> beware of browser caching, too
06:20 <@preaction> and if all else fails, delete the file cache in /tmp/WebGUICache (or something)
06:21 < specsmu> does spectre log anywhere?
06:21 <@preaction> it outputs to the webgui log
06:21 < specsmu> hmm
06:21 <@preaction> is it running?
06:22 < specsmu> yeah, and saying there aren't any workflow instances
06:22 <@preaction> means it's done
06:22 < specsmu> not showing up on the main page...
06:22 <@preaction> as i said, browser cache
06:22 <@preaction> URL?
06:22 < specsmu> http://www.thinwood.com:81/home
06:22 < specsmu> hope that resolves for you
06:23 <@preaction> looks like a webgui site
06:23 < specsmu> hmm
06:24 <@preaction> where's the login box supposed to be?
06:24 < specsmu> at the top
06:24 < specsmu> is there a navigation on the left?
06:24 <@preaction> no
06:24 <@preaction> this site looks very broken from what i see
06:25 < specsmu> yeah.
06:25 < specsmu> I coulda told you that
06:25 < specsmu> he's hired a coder to redo the templates,but the coder gave up in disgust at the old version
06:25 < specsmu> which is why I'm upgrading
06:25 <@preaction> "gave up in disgust" why?
06:26 < specsmu> no documentation.  he just couldn't figure it out
06:26 <@preaction> because he had to learn how to work with webgui?
06:26 <@preaction> wiki?
06:26 <@preaction> crap gooeybot is gone...
06:26 <@preaction> http://www.plainblack.com/support/community-wiki
06:26 <@preaction> http://www.plainblack.com/designers
06:27 < specsmu> hmm
06:28 <@preaction> also, plainblack is soon to offer a lot more in the manner of free documentation and paid training services, which of course does you no good right here right now
06:29 <@preaction> hopefully once we break off webgui.org into its own entity, people will be more inclined to contribute (since atm there are more than one person who don't understand the concept of FOSS and think they're working for plainblack for free)
06:29 < Radix-wrk> who? :)
06:29 < specsmu> yeah, that's a balancing act
06:29 <@preaction> two people on the forums have said it
06:29 <@preaction> one was maxscience though
06:29 < Radix-wrk> lol
06:30 < specsmu> ahh, I see.  the template is locked for some reason.  I don't think it's committed.
06:30 <@preaction> are you sure spectre's running?
06:30 < specsmu> yes
06:31 <@preaction> cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment; perl spectre.pl --ping
06:31 < specsmu> but every time I try to view it or edit it, it just puts me back to the "templates" main page
06:31 <@preaction> look in the webgui log
06:31 <@preaction> for "Cannot call method 'edit' on"
06:31 <@preaction> and pastebin the stuff around that
06:31 < specsmu> says it's alive
06:31 <@preaction> perlbot paste
06:31 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
06:32 <@preaction> on another topic: someone recommend me a company to buy a wireless router, preferably Draft-N
06:32 <@preaction> my belkin just died
06:32 <@preaction> so i'm pirating from my landlord
06:32 < specsmu> there's no such error.
06:32 <@preaction> pastebin the last few hundred lines of it then
06:34 <@preaction> are you running the wre? why is the port 81 version so broken and the port 80 version not?
06:34 < specsmu> because the 81 is a testbed
06:34 < specsmu> I'm not doing this in production until I get the kinks ironed out
06:34 < specsmu> otherwise I would be staying up all night
06:34 <@preaction> ah, mais oui
06:35 <@preaction> it almost looks like one of the upgrades failed
06:37 < specsmu> http://erxz.com/pb/1327
06:37 < specsmu> they all appeared to succeed
06:38 <@preaction> okay, run a tail on webgui.log
06:38 <@preaction> no
06:39 <@preaction> open it in `less`
06:39 <@preaction> and use shift+f to do follow mode
06:39 <@preaction> then reproduce the attempt to edit that template
06:39 <@preaction> with debug mode on, there's too much crap to sort through
06:40 < specsmu> what am I looking for?
06:41 <@preaction> i don't even know...
06:41 <@preaction> spectre committed
06:41 <@preaction> but it's still locked
06:41 <@preaction> did you actually go to "Commit My Changes"?
06:41 < specsmu> yes
06:41 <@preaction> try restarting spectre?
06:42 < specsmu> what does spectre do anyway?
06:42 <@preaction> asynchronous stuff
06:42 <@preaction> updates feeds, sends mail, commits versions,
06:42 <@preaction> scheduled maintenance
06:42 <@preaction> anything that can be done without user interaction
06:43 <@preaction> i mean, creating a large site under a single version tag would take minutes to commit, apache would time out and might kill the process
06:43 < specsmu> ooooo.
06:43 < specsmu> I think I see.
06:43 < specsmu> 2007/02/11 23:25:24 - WARN - test.thinwood.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - Visitor (1) connecting from 64.192.186.117 attempted to make a Spectre workflow runner request, but we're only allowed to accept requests from 127.0.0.1/32.
06:43 < specsmu> 2007/02/11 23:25:24 - ERROR - spectre.conf - Spectre::Workflow::suspendInstance[387] - WORKFLOW: Workflow instance EjBllVRI9FuUIkIVigJ28g has failed to execute 5 times in a row and will no longer attempt to execute.
06:44 < specsmu> I need to add the external IP to it.
06:45 <@preaction> or disable that security feature
06:46 <@preaction> that would explain how it got locked but did not get committed
06:46 <@preaction> imho it shouldn't stay locked when that happens...
06:47 < specsmu> ahhhhh
06:47 < specsmu> 2007/02/11 23:50:28 - DEBUG - spectre.conf - Spectre::Workflow::workerResponse[405] - WORKFLOW: Retrieving response from workflow instance.
06:48 < specsmu> 2007/02/11 23:50:28 - DEBUG - spectre.conf - Spectre::Workflow::workerResponse[409] - WORKFLOW: Response retrieved is for qYVrMIni42JLtxlUB7Jy6g.
06:49 < specsmu> but now it says it got an error response...
06:49 < specsmu> hmm
06:50 <@preaction> 127.0.0.1/32 is still in there, right?
06:50 < specsmu> no
06:50 < specsmu> should it be?
06:50 < specsmu> how do I add multiple IPs?
06:50 < specsmu> this is an odd conf file
06:50 <@preaction> seperated by commas i think
06:50 <@preaction> it's JSON
06:50 <@preaction> is it?
06:50 <@preaction> spectre.conf right?
06:50 < specsmu> right
06:51 <@preaction> can you paste yours somewhere?
06:52 <@preaction> or is it adminModeSubnets in your webgui.conf?
06:52 < specsmu> ahh... brackets
06:52 <@preaction> no, that's not it
06:53 <@preaction> spectreSubnets, that's it
06:54 < specsmu> this is starting to make sense and that's scaring me
06:54 <@preaction> why?
06:54 <@preaction> that's good
06:54 < specsmu> yayyyy
06:54 < specsmu> worked.
06:54 <@preaction> if it makes enough sense then you can help the community and make a wiki article
06:55 <@preaction> *cough cough*
06:55 < specsmu> because webgui has never, ever, ever made sense to me before
06:55 < Radix-wrk> You're not supposed to date it, just use it :)
06:56 <@preaction> the black box philosophy is horrible
06:56 <@preaction> one of the main reasons I hate strict OO
06:56 < specsmu> well, considering how much trouble it gives me whenever I feel it up, I may as well be married to it
06:56 < Radix-wrk> least you haven't spent money on it ;)
06:56 < specsmu> true
06:56 < specsmu> but you know what they say, time is money :)
06:57 < specsmu> ahh, now I'm a happy camper.
06:57 <@preaction> glad we could help
06:57 < specsmu> at least THIS time tie upgrade didn't take a week and require my customer to reupload all of his assets
06:57 <@preaction> when the hell did THAT happen?
06:58 < specsmu> I upgraded from 6.2 to 6.8
06:58 <@preaction> yes, that one is hell
06:58 < specsmu> unfortunately, somewhere in the middle of that you guys changed how it works, and the photogallery plugin I was using went bye-bye.
06:58 <@preaction> oh, yeah
06:58 <@preaction> the API went nuts in that section
06:58 < specsmu> yeah.
06:58 < specsmu> I had a fairly unhappy customer
06:58 <@preaction> from 6.99 on though, the API is stable, JT promised
06:59 <@preaction> if it works on 6.99, it will work until 2010
06:59 < specsmu> but he forgave me when he realized I was the only provider he could find that was insane enough to even RUN webgui ;-)
06:59 <@preaction> why? webgui fucking rocks
06:59 < Radix-wrk> heh
06:59 < specsmu> uhhh...  not arguing that.  But have you tried to find a web coder that will touch it with a 10 foot pole?
06:59 <@preaction> enterprise-level content management with a foss license?
07:00 < specsmu> webgui is a naturally limiting condition
07:00 < specsmu> heh
07:00 <@preaction> you should have HEARD what I said when I opened up the code :p
07:00 < specsmu> if you find someone who will touch it, he has to be good, because on of those code monkeys that can barely write html is going to be like "WTF?"
07:00 <@preaction> i've written my own CMS, and i was going "WTF"
07:01 <@preaction> it makes sense now, there's a natural progression, but i will admit there were a few design flaws early on that have compounded
07:01 < specsmu> I should put in a resume to plainblack ;-)
07:02 <@preaction> i don't know what we're doing about drake's vacancy, i think the powers that be have decided to use contractors more for dev purposes
07:02 < specsmu> heh
07:02 < specsmu> I'm just kidding anyway
07:02 < specsmu> I like my job
07:02 <@preaction> network admin for a webgui cluster?
07:02 < specsmu> nah...  don't use webgui at work
07:02 <@preaction> ask them if they'll pay you to do webgui dev work, and help contribute
07:02 <@preaction> aw, damn
07:02 < specsmu> this is my dedicated machine
07:03 < specsmu> on-the-side, as it were
07:03 <@preaction> of course
07:03 < specsmu> they have better uses to put mod_perl skills to, anyway... the whole site runs on it
07:03 <@preaction> "they"?
07:04 < specsmu> who I work for
07:04 <@preaction> but do you have to reinvent the wheel often?
07:04 <@preaction> i mean, webgui is, at its core, an application framework
07:04 <@preaction> (admittedly, sometimes a sledgehammer when a screwdriver is needed, but still)
07:06 < specsmu> I don't know, I'm not actually a developer
07:06 < specsmu> :)
07:06 < specsmu> I'm a lightning rod
07:06 < specsmu> (I am perfectly capable of developing, that's just not my job at the moment)
07:23 < specsmu> well, thanks for your help
07:23 < specsmu> ttyl
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07:23 <@preaction> that's what we're here for
07:35 < patspam> just reading through the backlog.. webgui.org is going to be split off into a proper site of its own? that'll be cool
07:36 < Radix-wrk> yup, will be cool
07:37 <@preaction> will hopefully make things a lot easier to separate paid stuff from free stuff
07:37 <@preaction> as well as sell adspace for other webgui service providers
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07:58 <+perlDreamer> preaction: what happened to gooeybot?
07:58 <@preaction> my belkin router is ... being mean
07:58 <+perlDreamer> so he's trapped
07:59 <@preaction> internally it works awesome, but it won't stay connected to my DSL modem
07:59 <+perlDreamer> oy
08:00 <@preaction> i've been up and down the network, and it's the router itself
08:00 <@preaction> belkin said "We're elevating this to a level two support call" whatever the hell that means
08:00 <+perlDreamer> that means you're talking to someone inside the US
08:00 <@preaction> but then they hung up
08:00 <@preaction> i mean, now what?
08:01 <@preaction> am i supposed to call them again?
08:01 <+perlDreamer> do you have a support call ID?
08:01 <@preaction> no
08:01 <@preaction> the guy didn't understand a damned thing
08:01 <+perlDreamer> call back and tell them that you got hung up on
08:02 <+perlDreamer> you're mad and are thinking of posting the entire thing to your blog
08:02 <@preaction> well, when the guy said "bye" i assumed it was "you can hang up now"
08:03 <@preaction> i can't be that sore, the thing has been working non-stop 24/7 for about 3 years
08:04 <@preaction> plus, belkin has a draft-N router for like $150 that looks pretty decent
08:13 <+perlDreamer> I'll see you guys tomorrow
08:13 <+perlDreamer> I'm out of work again, so it's hacking time.
08:13 <@preaction> fun fun
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19:23 <@snapcount> MrHairgrease: are you alive?
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19:30 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: !
19:30 <+perlDreamer> it is I
19:30 <@snapcount> heh
19:30 <@snapcount> so yeah tag update
19:30 <@snapcount> can't dup on my VM
19:30 <@snapcount> it upgrades and no phantom tags using the rev 3738
19:31 <+perlDreamer> I didn't have any luck either on the default db
19:31 <+MrHairgrease> snapcount: i'm cooking
19:31 <+perlDreamer> so what's the call?
19:31 <+MrHairgrease> whats up
19:32 <@snapcount> quick question about template variables in SQLForm
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> sure
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> hit it
19:32 <@snapcount> <tmpl_var record.fieldname.value>
19:32 <@snapcount> is that supposed to work?
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> I think so
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> have to llok it up
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> look*
19:32 <@snapcount> ok... then it must be a bug
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> you know what
19:32 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: greghacke is sandbagging you
19:32 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/sqlform-template-variable-issues
19:32 <@snapcount> just wanted to see if you knew off the top of your head
19:32 <@snapcount> sandbagging?
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> I'll check it out in a couple of hours 
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> is that ok?
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> I'd say the default templates have always worked
19:34 <+MrHairgrease> and if i recall correctly
19:34 <+MrHairgrease> they use (almost) all tmpl_vars
19:35 -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrCookingGrease
19:38 <@snapcount> that's fine
19:38 <+perlDreamer> he already posted the bug
19:38 <+perlDreamer> yung already answered
19:38 <@snapcount> doh
19:38 <+perlDreamer> I did, too
19:38 <@snapcount> thx perlDreamer 
19:38 <+perlDreamer> well, there _is_ a doc bug, but it's easily fixable
19:38 <@snapcount> so what is the correct syntax?
19:39 <+perlDreamer> that is the correct syntax, but the template variables were swapped between search and add/edit record
19:39 <+perlDreamer> the fix for that is by yung, and it's in SVN
19:39 <+perlDreamer> the 2nd bug is that the search template has two flavors
19:39 <+perlDreamer> normal and advanced
19:39 <+perlDreamer> the docs say they're the same, but they're not
19:43 <@snapcount> cool
19:43 <+perlDreamer> what do we do about the upgrade?
19:44 <@snapcount> pray?
19:44 <+perlDreamer> I can do that.
19:44 <@snapcount> I have to ts on pb.com now
19:44 <@snapcount> which is going to be tough
19:44 <+perlDreamer> what is ts?
19:44 <@snapcount> trouble shoot
19:51 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: I may have asked you this before, but is there only 1 site on PB.com?
19:51 <+perlDreamer> there wouldn't be as many sites as there are version tags by chance?
19:52 <@snapcount> on the server that pb.com is hosted on there is only one site
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19:53 < isaacfinnegan> Hello. I have a browser referrer question for a html guru
19:53 < isaacfinnegan> Don't know if anyone is here?
19:54 <+perlDreamer> we're here, just that we're mainly perl hackers
19:54 <+perlDreamer> you can always ask :)
19:54 <+perlDreamer> we may refer you back to the boards on plainblack.com
19:55 < isaacfinnegan> Hmm.... I think i may have figured it out.  Why is it when you ask someone it helps your brain fgure things out?
19:56 < isaacfinnegan> looks like target=_blank  causes abrowser to not send referrer.
19:56 < isaacfinnegan> but target=_new  it does send referrer
19:59 < isaacfinnegan> mayb not though....
19:59 < isaacfinnegan> hmm
19:59 < isaacfinnegan> when I link from my webgui site into our bug system the browser is not sending a referrer
19:59 < isaacfinnegan> But it is when I link from other places.
20:01 < isaacfinnegan> ah.
20:01 < isaacfinnegan> Looks like it's when you link from https to non-https
20:01 < isaacfinnegan> thanks everyone!
20:01 < ckotil> i thought target= was used to open a link in a new window. target=_none
20:01 < ckotil> heh. you're welcome
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22:27 < ckotil> does /data/WebGUI/ have to be owned by root?
22:27 <@preaction> no
22:28 < ckotil> good deal.
22:28 <@preaction> it has to be readable by the apache user, and the sbin directory has to be executable by that user
22:28 < ckotil> I tested it and it worked, i just wanted to double check before breaking my production server
22:32 <@khenn> are you around colin?
22:32 <@khenn> could you ping me on IM?
22:34 <@preaction> khenn: if you need him more immediately, say his nickname. most IRC clients do annoying things when your nickname is spoken
22:42 < ckotil> heh
22:59 < ckotil> im working with SQLReport and H:T:E still. trying to get it to process this...
22:59 < ckotil> <tmpl_if field.number=2>
22:59 < ckotil> WORK!
22:59 < ckotil> </tmpl_if>
23:00 < ckotil> thats the only thing stopping me.
23:00 <@khenn> I see
23:00 < ckotil> its causing the template to not get proccessed
23:00 <@khenn> perlDreamer:  could you ping me on IM when you see this
23:00 <@khenn> ?
23:00 <@khenn> thanks
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23:04 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: try the long form <tmpl_if EXPR="field.number == 2">
23:04 < ckotil> k
23:06 < ckotil> now i get syntax error.
23:06  * ckotil sighs
23:06 < ckotil> i should try ths on my dev server.
23:06 <+MrCookingGrease> you do know that hte cannot deal with dots right?
23:07 <+perlDreamer> ah, right!
23:07 < ckotil> ive heard that.
23:07 <+perlDreamer> <tmpl_if EXPR="field_number == 2">
23:07 <+perlDreamer> underscore, not dot
23:07 <+perlDreamer> my bad, ckotil
23:07 <+MrCookingGrease> that's right
23:07 < ckotil> but the i18n doesnt have entries for field_number
23:07 < ckotil> ok so tt translates it on the fly?
23:07 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:07 <+perlDreamer> actually, the H::T::E plugin translates on the fly
23:08 < ckotil> ok.
23:08 < ckotil> well it didnt error out this time.
23:08 < ckotil> but im not seing what i want. im a little closer at least. thanks
23:08 <+perlDreamer> In 7.4, I think, all template variable names will be sanitized to prevent the dot problem from occuring again.
23:08 < ckotil> killer.
23:20 <+perlDreamer> does anybody know of an XHTML validator that will handle fragments? (incomplete docs without a doctype, etc.)?
23:20 <+perlDreamer> I think there's a bug in the Ad HTML generation
23:20 <+perlDreamer> and I'd like to check it
23:20 <+MrCookingGrease> validator.w3.org?
23:20 < ckotil> w3 might work
23:20 < ckotil> i think you can explicityly tell it what type of doctype you want to check it against
23:23 <+perlDreamer> yes, on the extended direct input form you can
23:23 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: paste?
23:23 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
23:24 <+perlDreamer> maybe you guys could take a look at it?
23:24 <+perlDreamer> http://sial.org/pbot/22946
23:24 <+perlDreamer> the validator doesn't like it because it has inline styles
23:25 <+perlDreamer> the part that I'm particularly worried about is the border part in the outer div
23:25 <+perlDreamer> border:solid black 1px;
23:26 < ckotil> i usually do border:1px solid black;
23:26 < ckotil> dunno if that would change anything
23:26 <+perlDreamer> doesn't need commas or enclosing quotes or anything?
23:26 <+MrCookingGrease> no
23:26 < ckotil> no the quotes are fine
23:26 <+perlDreamer> okay
23:27 <+MrCookingGrease> but i agree with ckotil
23:27 <+MrCookingGrease> 1px solid black is what people usually do
23:27 <+MrCookingGrease> including me 
23:27 <+MrCookingGrease> so it might complain about that
23:28 <+perlDreamer> it griped about the inline style and the <b> tags
23:31 <+MrCookingGrease> it validates when i try it
23:31 <+perlDreamer> which doctype did you use?
23:31 <+MrCookingGrease> xhtml strict
23:31 <+MrCookingGrease> moment
23:31 <+MrCookingGrease> i'll paste
23:32 <+MrCookingGrease> http://rafb.net/p/LjwR2888.html
23:32 <+perlDreamer> I see
23:32 -!- MrCookingGrease is now known as MrHairgrease
23:33 <+perlDreamer> when it says fragment, I was pasting just my earlier paste
23:33 <+perlDreamer> no head/body tags or anything else
23:33 <+MrHairgrease> i tried that too
23:33 <+MrHairgrease> but aparently w3 can't cope with that
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> if you don't include the head/titlle/body tags it'll complain that the div cannot be ther
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> it can only exist within a body tag
23:34 < ckotil> ya, i was leaving out the title tag and it was bitchin
23:39 < ckotil> im out.
23:39 <+perlDreamer> later
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01:34 < wgGuest95> enne ?
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02:58 < SDuensin> Hello again!
02:59 < Radix-wrk> mornin'
03:00 < SDuensin> Hi Radix-wrk 
03:01 < SDuensin> I'm trying to build a site with 7.0.  I bought the docs, I've read the help, and I can't for the life of me figure out how to commit pending changes that were "Autotagged".
03:02 < Radix-wrk> huh?
03:02 < Radix-wrk> on the left side in your bar select version tags
03:03 < Radix-wrk> select the version tag that matches the one you want - you should get a * put next to it when it's your active version tag
03:03 < Radix-wrk> then select commit tag
03:03 < SDuensin> My bar doesn't show them.
03:03 < Radix-wrk> go to admin console
03:03 < Radix-wrk> select version tags
03:04 < SDuensin> Ok.
03:04 < Radix-wrk> You should have all of your version tags listed
03:04 < Radix-wrk> just select 'commit' on the left next to the one you want to commit
03:06 < SDuensin> In the console, I'm on the "Pending Versions" page.  Both my versions are listed.  I have no commit option anywhere.
03:06 < Radix-wrk> no
03:06 < Radix-wrk> if you're in pending versions then you're on the wrong page and youdidn't select version tags
03:06 < Radix-wrk> on the right you should see Manage Versions
03:06 < Radix-wrk> select that to get back to version tags
03:07 < SDuensin> If I go to the Admin Console, Version Tags, nothing is listed.  I have to click on "Manage pending versions" to see them.
03:07 < Radix-wrk> then you have no version tags - they've already been committed
03:08 < Radix-wrk> pending versions means that spectre hasn't processed them yet - which could also mean that you're either not running it or it's not configured correctly as it's not processing them
03:08 < SDuensin> They don't show up anywhere. :-(
03:08 < SDuensin> Ah.  So I just have to wait?
03:09 < Radix-wrk> well.. assuming spectre is running and it's configured correctly
03:09 < SDuensin> It says it's running.
03:09 < Radix-wrk> I'd be checking your webgui.log and seeing if it's reported anything
03:09 < Radix-wrk> spectre should process them prettymuch instantanously 
03:09 < Radix-wrk> unless you have an extremely busy site with lots of stuff going on
03:10 < Radix-wrk> 1-2 seconds max for us generally
03:10 < SDuensin> Ooo - tons of "500 Internal Server Error" messages in the log.   That's not good.
03:10 < Radix-wrk> therein lies the problem
03:10 < SDuensin> Yea.  Thanks!  I'll work on it.
03:11 < Radix-wrk> try a tail -f webgui.log in one window, and then restart spectre
03:11 < SDuensin> Good plan.
03:11 < Radix-wrk> you'll see a flood of messages go through, but spectre will try and process things
03:17 < SDuensin> All I get is that same communications error message over and over.  I checked the confs - they all seem fine.
03:45 <@preaction> SDuensin: 500 errors will show up in the apache logs
03:45 < SDuensin> preaction - these are in webgui.log.
03:45 <@preaction> i mean the actual reason for the 500 error
03:45 < SDuensin> I saw on the forums that it can be caused by the site's conf not allowing Spectre to connect.
03:45 < SDuensin> Oh.  I'll look!
03:46 < SDuensin> (If I can find them.  I'm using the WRE on Linux.)
03:47 <@preaction> data/wre/prereqs/apache/logs/modperl.error.log
03:47 < SDuensin> Thanks.
03:49 < SDuensin> I don't really see anything.  I'll bang on it more later.  Gotta run for now.
03:50 < SDuensin> Thanks again for the help!  Can't wait to get everything back on WebGUI again!
03:50 < SDuensin> My only gripe is all the screencasts instead of real docs!  It makes looking things up VERY DIFFICULT!
03:51 <@preaction> when you get back, we can help you find it. sometimes the docs can be difficult to look through
03:55 < SDuensin> I'm going to build a "proper" server install for the WRE before I worry about it much more.  Hopefully I can do that tomorrow.
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05:06 < PedersenMJ> Good evening.
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06:10 <@preaction> WebGUI rules. That is all.
06:10 < PedersenMJ> That it does :)
06:15 < PedersenMJ> Wow, at the rate I'm going on my entry for the wcc, it looks like it's going to be about 10-12 pages long.
06:39 < Radix-wrk> yikes
06:40 < PedersenMJ> It's at 7 pages right now, and I've got another 4 or 5 topics to go before I hit the conversion by example section.
06:41 < Radix-wrk> if you're going to add this to the wiki then you may be better off breaking it up into separate pages per sections
06:45 < PedersenMJ> Well, it's definitely going to be added to the wiki. But I'm not so sure about breaking it up. That I'll have to see once I get the whole thing done.
07:28 < PedersenMJ> Now, I'm off to bed. Will see you guys later.
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08:58 < patspam1> hmm did someone just boot me?
08:59 < patspam1> anyway, I'm defining a big config data structure that includes the hash to be passed in as CheckList's options, want to be able to have my list of checkboxes sorted
08:59 < patspam1> (sorted by key that is, otherwise I'd just use sortByValue => 1)
09:01 < patspam1> so, what I'm asking is, is there a way to make my options hash (which is anonymous) sorted without doing the normal thing of using a non-anonymous hash and 'tie'ing it to Tie::IxHash?
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09:09 < Radix-wrk> Hi patspam1: why would anyone boot you?
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14:42 < patspam1> Radix: i don't think anyone did, my client just disconnected unexpectedly
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17:01 < wgGuest79> hi
17:01 < snapcount_> hello
17:01 < wgGuest79> 7.3.9 will be out tomorrow?
17:02 < snapcount_> looks like it
17:03 < wgGuest79> ok
17:03 < wgGuest79> then 7.4 next week?
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17:55 < ckotil> so my h:t:e problem has been fixed in 7.3.8 , im using 7.2.3 on my production server. so ill be upgrading soon
18:02 < snapcount_> sweet
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18:38 <@khenn> mornin
18:39 < greghacke> Morning.
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19:55 < pjesi> were do you specify the default hostname of a webgui instance
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20:20 < cap10morgan> can you ask a dbh which database it's currently pointed at?
20:21 < snapcount_> you could just run a query to find out
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20:30 < cap10morgan> has anyone seen the error "unknown variable 'defaults-file'" when trying to start mysql in the wre?
20:31 < cap10morgan> this is on OS X (intel)
20:31 <@rizen> no
20:31 <@rizen> but my guess would be to check /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/my.cnf
20:31 <@rizen> and see if there is any crap in there that shouldn't be
20:32 < cap10morgan> it prevents mysql from starting during the setup script on a clean wre install
20:32 < cap10morgan> i had to replace the mysql-5.0.22 source with 5.0.27 (also tried 5.0.33) to get the wre to compile
20:34 < cap10morgan> so it's the standard wre-shipped my.cnf
20:39 <@rizen> have you tried searching google for the error message
20:39 < cap10morgan> yeah
20:39 < greghacke> who let rizen on here?
20:40 < cap10morgan> i didn't see much relevant
20:40 < cap10morgan> at least that i could tell
20:41 <@rizen> sorry dude, i don't have any other ideas for you
20:41 <@rizen> i thought that "defaults-file" probably meant my.cnf
20:41 <@rizen> but that was just a guess
20:41 <@rizen> is it possible that some variable we ship in our my.cnf isn't compatible with the version you ended up installing?
20:44 < cap10morgan> yeah, maybe so. i'll look into it more. thanks.
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21:11 < snapcount_> anyone care for a chips a'hoy cookie?
21:11 < snapcount_> plenty to go around
21:11 < snapcount_> mmmm
21:11  * cap10morgan wants a cookie
21:12 < snapcount_> should I dcc or email?
21:12 < snapcount_> =D
21:12 < cap10morgan> hehe
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21:16 < cap10morgan> so it seems that in newer versions of mysql 5.0 (5.0.27 and 5.0.33), the --defaults-file option passed to mysql.server start doesn't work anymore.
21:16 < cap10morgan> but the my.cnf is in the basedir, so is it even necessary?
21:21 < cap10morgan> i think it's messed up now because of a possibly new requirement that it be the first option passed
21:21 < cap10morgan> while it is the first (and only) option passed to mysql.server, i think it's passing other options before it to mysqld, once it gets there
21:22 <@rizen> yeah, but those files aren't modified by the wre build process
21:22 <@rizen> they're the ones that come with mysql
21:22 <@rizen> so if it's screwed...then it's screwed for everybody using those versions of mysql
21:23 < cap10morgan> but rc.mysql is the thing passing --defaults-file to the mysql.server script
21:23 < cap10morgan> and that's wre-specific, no?
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21:24 <@rizen> oh..yeah you're right
21:25 <@rizen> i thought you were saying it was in mysql.server
21:25 <@rizen> in that case modify rc.mysql and see if that fixes your issue
21:25 <@rizen> if it does, post a bug report
21:25 < cap10morgan> yeah, it did. i'll post the bug report.
21:26 < cap10morgan> i'm also going to contribute this osx intel build of the wre
21:26 <+perlDreamer> I'm sorry, but posting bugs is now illegal
21:26 <+perlDreamer> you can't post a bug without posting a fix
21:26 <@rizen> cap: you got an os build to work?
21:26 <+perlDreamer> I just hacked that into PB's site, using a stolen password I got from 
21:26 < cap10morgan> but it's pretty big, should i make it an attachment?
21:26 <+perlDreamer> uh, nm :)
21:26 <@rizen> i got it to work for everything except for mod_ssl
21:26 <@preaction> perlDreamer: you were NOT supposed to tell anyone about that
21:27 <@rizen> cap: upload the tarball to upload.sf.net/incoming
21:27 < cap10morgan> rizen: yeah, i had to upgrade some components (openssl and mysql, primarily) and patch libpng
21:27 < cap10morgan> but i documented all the changes
21:27 < cap10morgan> seems to be working now
21:27 < cap10morgan> ok, will do
21:27 <@rizen> that's ftp://upload.sf.net/incoming
21:27 <@preaction> cap10morgan: you mean a fully-working, mod_ssl and all, version of the WRE for intel macs?
21:27 <@rizen> and when you get it there, drop me an email and i'll push it out to the site
21:27 <@preaction> can i kiss you, or would that be too gay?
21:27 < cap10morgan> preaction: yessir
21:27 < cap10morgan> :)
21:28 < cap10morgan> haha
21:28 <@rizen> where did you document these changes?
21:28 <@rizen> in a bug report?
21:28 < cap10morgan> rizen: ok, what's your email address?
21:28 < cap10morgan> rizen: not yet, but i plan to now that i have it all working
21:29 <@preaction> or maybe i should hit you, since it'll take me hours to extract my dev environment out of the parallels instance and into my osx proper...
21:29 <@rizen> jt at plainblack dot com
21:31  * cap10morgan hides from preaction
21:32 <@preaction> nono, i've got it scheduled for thursday (kinda horrible that i have enough of a life now that i have to schedule time to play with my toys...)
21:33 <@preaction> is that a sign of being a grown-up?
21:36 < cap10morgan> upload is going kinda slow, says it'll take about half an hour
21:37 < cap10morgan> so now i'll open bug reports for what i had to change to get it to build
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21:47 < cap10morgan> ok, those four bugs i just opened should be the sum total of everything i had to do to get the wre to build on os x intel
22:12 < cap10morgan> ok, upload's done. i emailed you about it, jt
22:17 <@rizen> sweet...it's now on sf for everybody to get
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22:24 < SDuensin> Good afternoon all.
22:24 <@rizen> howdy
22:25 < SDuensin> Hey rizen - just who I need!   :-)
22:25 <@rizen> on phone...
22:25 < SDuensin> There was mention here the other night about the next release bringing the WRE on Windows up to par with the UNIX one?  Is there an ETA on that?  Our IT department is trying to avoid SharePoint.  <G>
22:26 <@preaction> most IT departments are trying to avoid windows period :(
22:26 <@preaction> but otherwise: you could try a source install
22:26 <@preaction> it's not impressively difficult
22:26 < SDuensin> Well, unfortunately, other than myself we're a Windows shop.
22:27 <@preaction> (if the WRE doesn't compile for your system)
22:27 < SDuensin> "Impressively difficult" - I like that.
22:27 <@preaction> there are free tools to compile, i believe MinGW would be the one best suited for the task
22:28 <@preaction> nmake, some other tools, i've never set up a windows GNU C compiler system
22:28 < SDuensin> So the source WRE is newer than the Windows binary then?
22:28 <@preaction> durno, that's entirely JT's domain
22:28 < SDuensin> Poor JT.
22:28 <@preaction> otherwise, update the sources, i believe the next version of the WRE source will have updated sources
22:29 <@preaction> one of the users here just got the WRE to compile for Intel macs
22:29 <@rizen> ok back
22:29 <@preaction> ("just" as in, 30 minutes ago)
22:29 < SDuensin> :-D
22:29 < SDuensin> I debated trying that.
22:29 <@rizen> no
22:29 <@rizen> you can't currently compile the unix wre and make it work on windows
22:29 < SDuensin> Ended up using Ubuntu inside Parallels.
22:29 <@rizen> the code is just not compatible
22:29 < SDuensin> rizen - what about with Cygwin?
22:29 <@rizen> not even with cygwin
22:30 < SDuensin> Oh well.
22:30 <@rizen> after we get through our current bug fix cycle
22:30 <@rizen> we're going to start working on WRE 0.8
22:30 <@rizen> it's a complete rewrite of all the utilities that come with the WRE
22:30 <@rizen> and a restructuring of the prereqs
22:30 <@preaction> rizen: quick question, how long would a WRE compile take based on a fairly-decent system? 1-4 hours?
22:31 <@rizen> this will be done to make the WRE utilities compatible with windows
22:31 <@rizen> so that we have one WRE everywhere
22:31 < SDuensin> I've recommended they try the online demo and told them that I will have it installed myself soon to show them.
22:31  * SDuensin REALLY doesn't want to use SharePoint.
22:31 <@preaction> SDuensin: amen to that
22:31 <@rizen> the current Windows WRE will work for running WebGUI on windows
22:31 <@rizen> it just needs a little tweaking for your environemnt
22:32 < SDuensin> It didn't like my Vista box at all.  :-D
22:32 <@rizen> it's just that the current windows WRE has NOTHING to do with the unix wre codebase
22:32 < SDuensin> (But what does?)
22:32 <@rizen> well we haven't tried it on vista
22:32 <@rizen> and probably won't for several months
22:32 <@rizen> since vista is a client platform, not a server platform
22:32 < SDuensin> Not much of a client platform either.  :-)
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--- Day changed Wed Feb 14 2007
00:24 <@rizen> oh mister kuskie
00:24 <@rizen> calling perlDreamer
00:24 <+perlDreamer> sir?
00:24 <@rizen> do you still want me to install that post.pm?
00:24 <@rizen> and sorry for the delay on that
00:25 <+perlDreamer> I know you all are busy
00:25 <+perlDreamer> If you have a better idea for fixing the bug, then no
00:25 <+perlDreamer> otherwise let's keep on going with this
00:25 <@rizen> ok installing it now then
00:25 <+perlDreamer> PB.com seems to have its share of unique bugs
00:25 <+perlDreamer> what was the resolution to the upgrade problem that delayed 7.3.9?
00:27 <@rizen> corrupt table indexes
00:27 <@rizen> myisamchk fixed
00:27 <@rizen> the fact that plainblack.com runs at all is amazing considering it's endured every upgrade since 0.8.0
00:28 < greghacke> you are kidding, right?
00:30 <@rizen> kidding what?
00:30 < greghacke> since 0.8.0
00:30 <@rizen> nope
00:30 <@rizen> we've never started from scratch since 0.8.0
00:30 <@rizen> which was the first public release
00:31 <@rizen> it's kind of a testiment to our upgrade process
00:31 < greghacke> yeah
00:31 <@rizen> it may seem buggy at times
00:31 <@rizen> but when you consider that you can upgrade your data from version to version and never have to start over
00:31 <@rizen> that's a pretty significant feat
00:31 < greghacke> which is key for me.
00:31 <@rizen> since there's so much data
00:31 < greghacke> all i need to know is what you want me to work ;)
00:31 <@rizen> and a lot of it is very unstructured
00:32 < greghacke> now that i am finally making enough to work
00:33 <@rizen> right now i just need everyone to help us kill the bug list
00:34 <@rizen> k pd, the new post.pm is in place
00:34 <@rizen> i'll email you the log tomorrow
00:34 <+perlDreamer> thanks, dude
00:35 <@rizen> no no...thank you
00:35 <+perlDreamer> I'm hoping that this proves my current theory of the bug.
00:36 <+perlDreamer> which is that it is inserted okay and committed okay
00:36 <+perlDreamer> and that something else is messing it up
00:36 <@rizen> my current theory is that the bug list is getting long again
00:38 <+perlDreamer> want to talk one out with me?
00:38 <+perlDreamer> it's a revisit of an earlier bug we already talked about
00:43 <@rizen> sure
00:47 <+perlDreamer> it's the comma output from a macro thing
00:47 <@rizen> ah
00:47 <@rizen> what do we need to talk about?
00:47 <+perlDreamer> basically, this set of macros ^H( ^c; ); won't work right for perlDreamer Consulting, LLC.
00:47 <@rizen> had an epiphany?
00:48 <+perlDreamer> we had talked about making a switch of some kind that would escape "unsafe" characters like , or "
00:48 <+perlDreamer> or maybe even HTML encoding them, but not in all cases
00:48 <+perlDreamer> like ^c(1) would return them safely
00:48 <@rizen> right, i remember the conversation
00:48 <@rizen> but my question is, what is the new discussion about?
00:49 <@rizen> or is it, just to decide once and for all how to deal with it?
00:49 <+perlDreamer> originally, we canned the idea because the person in question then was trying to use the GroupText macro to return HTML
00:49 <+perlDreamer> now I think we should do it in limited cases
00:49 <+perlDreamer> like, just for the c macro
00:49 <+perlDreamer> and then do others as they come up
00:49 <@rizen> ok, so you're saying that rather than doing a generic solution for all macros
00:49 <@rizen> we do it on a case by case basis
00:49 <@rizen> ?
00:50 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:50 <+perlDreamer> limited scope
00:50 <+perlDreamer> and with test cases for each macro change
00:51 <@rizen> we have a bit of a problem
00:52 <@rizen> i don't know of any character codes to turn a comma into an html entity
00:52 <+perlDreamer> there's a unicode one.
00:53 <@rizen> &#44; won't work in all browsers i don't think
00:54 <@rizen> does anybody here have ie?
00:54 < greghacke> I have 7
00:55 <@rizen> could you create an html file on your computer
00:55 <@rizen> with this code
00:55 <@rizen> <html>
00:55 <@rizen> <body>
00:55 <@rizen> Do you see a comma: &#44;
00:55 <@rizen> </body>
00:55 <@rizen> </html>
00:55 < greghacke> sure
00:56 < greghacke> I see a comma under 7
00:56 <@rizen> ok
00:56 <@rizen> now we need to test under 6
00:56 <@rizen> i've tested in in ff2
00:56 <@rizen> and it works
00:56 <@rizen> testing in safari and opera now
00:57 < greghacke> testing netscape and konquerer
00:57 <@rizen> works in opera and safari
00:57 < greghacke> good in IE7, Opera 9, Netscape 8.1.2
00:59 <+perlDreamer> and we could use &quot; for encoding quotes
01:00 <@rizen> frank is testing it on ie6 now
01:00 <@rizen> yes &quot; is the right one to use for that
01:00 <@rizen> and it appears that &#44; works in all browsers
01:00 <@rizen> for comma
01:01 <@rizen> so please add a function to WebGUI::HTML
01:01 <@rizen> that accepts a scalar reference
01:01 <@rizen> and does the substitution for those two
01:02 <+perlDreamer> what do I do after that?
01:02 <@rizen> then the c macro
01:02 <@rizen> do
01:02 <@rizen> my $company = $session->setting->get("companyName");
01:03 <@rizen> WebGUI::HTML::makeParameterSafe(\$company)
01:03 <@rizen> ;
01:03 <@rizen> return $company;
01:03 <+perlDreamer> you think we should do the encoding unconditionally?
01:03 <@rizen> for that macro i don't see why not
01:03 <@rizen> can you think of a reason?
01:06 <@rizen> ok..gotta go...i'll be back later
01:06 <+perlDreamer> k
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01:27 < xdanger> snapcount_: There (I belive) is a huge bug in the migrateCalendars function of 7.2.3 -> 7.3.0 upgrade script...
01:27 < xdanger> it doesn't take acount of revisions...
01:28 < xdanger> I just have to say nice... now I'll just have to say to client to go throug all of their eventlist/calendars... They have just used copy->paste->edit route to add similiar events...
01:29 <+perlDreamer> xdanger, see if you can get preaction's attention.  He's Dr. Calendar/Event
01:29 <@preaction> i'm not here, go way
01:30 < xdanger> ou, meat to say to preaction, don't know why I said it to snapcount =)
01:30 < xdanger> preaction: boing!
01:30 <@preaction> xdanger: "take account"?
01:30 <@preaction> i was told that old revisions did not need to be migrated
01:31 <@preaction> as such, they are not migrated
01:31 < xdanger> something like where assetData.revisionDate=(select revisiondate)
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01:31 < xdanger> yeah, but if you ignore them, It'll sometime migrate the old revisions
01:31 <@preaction> there was a bug where it did not migrate pending revisions
01:32 <@preaction> ... which means that either a pending revision or an approved revision gets migrated...
01:32 < xdanger> now a client of mine has 20 identical events... all of the original revision, not the updated onw..
01:33 < xdanger> s/onw/one/
01:33 <@preaction> was the updated one committed?
01:33 < xdanger> yes...
01:33 < xdanger> my %eventProperties = $session->db->quickHash("select * from asset left join assetData on asset.assetId=assetData.assetId left join EventsCalendar_event on asset.assetId = EventsCalendar_event.assetId where asset.assetId = ?",[$event]);
01:33 < xdanger> that line takes random revision of the assetdata
01:34 <@preaction> who did that? did I do that?
01:34 <@preaction> what the hell kind of idiot did not use $asset->get
01:35 < xdanger> This might be something that differs per mysql version... I was using version 4.1.. It might return them in different order than 5
01:35 < xdanger> my thoughts exactly =)
01:38 <@preaction> ... now i remember... i was having trouble getting some events to migrate because they couldn't be instanciated
01:38 <@preaction> for some reason
01:38 <@preaction> so i did the raw db crap
01:38 <@preaction> and didn't do anything about revision dates...
01:39 <@preaction> post a bug and i'll eat my crow
01:40 <@preaction> gott im himmel...
01:44 < xdanger> there...
01:45 < xdanger> Just hope that I can restore backups for that client...
01:45 <@preaction> i'm thinking about everyone's who upgraded since then :p
01:49 <+perlDreamer> can they be fixed, too?
01:50 <@preaction> the box says maybe...
01:50 <@preaction> no, the entire table is dropped
01:51 <@preaction> gone, finito
01:51 <@preaction> shit
01:52 < xdanger> you should still correct the bug for future upgrades...
01:52 <@preaction> of course
01:53 < xdanger> Hey, how do I export Packages?
01:53 < Radix-wrk> asset manager view
01:53 <@preaction> when an asset is a package, the asset manager lists it and has an export button
01:55 < xdanger> ok, you have to edit it and change the metadata...
01:55 < xdanger> btw, there should be a funtion to delete clipboard...
01:55 < xdanger> "clean"
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02:15 < xdanger> rizen: is the "correct revisionDate" select max(revisionDate) from assetData where status=approved and assetId = ?
02:15 <@preaction> but what if the status is "pending" when the upgrade runs?
02:17 <@preaction> xdanger: but yes, that'd be the one. select (...) where assetId=? and revisionDate=(select max(revisionDate) ...)
02:18 < xdanger> Just realized that I can check the versiontags if they have commited anything to their site =P
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03:06 <@rizen> who wants to have a design discussion
03:08 <@preaction> depends on what it's for
03:08 <@rizen> i'm rolling around in my head my next big project for webgui
03:09 <@preaction> commerce?
03:09 <@preaction> WRE 0.8?
03:09 <@rizen> and when i take on a big project, i like to roll it around for several months
03:09 <@preaction> the hosting utils thing?
03:09 <@rizen> before i work on it
03:09 <@rizen> nope..those are already planned out
03:09 <@preaction> ah, new and improved
03:09 <@rizen> this is a brand new one...for after that
03:09 <@preaction> lay it on me!
03:09 <@rizen> this is a late 2007 project
03:10 <@rizen> i'd like to build a new asset, that will be the spiritual successor to the dataform and the sqlform
03:10 <@rizen> my thought is that those two assets will continue to exist
03:10 <@rizen> so people that are already using them can continue using them
03:10 <@rizen> but we'll drop them from the core
03:11 <@rizen> so they won't be available in new installs
03:11 <@rizen> instead, this new thing would be
03:11 <@rizen> but that's getting ahead of myself
03:11 <@preaction> i'm listening, just not interrupting
03:11 <@preaction> (until i have something to interrupt with, of course)
03:11 <@rizen> the idea is that this thing will allow a user to define a table (or perhaps tables)
03:12 <@rizen> views
03:12 <@rizen> views of the data
03:12 <@rizen> that is
03:12 <@rizen> or maybe a better way to describe it is user interfaces
03:12 <@rizen> for editing, display, and search
03:12 <@rizen> and finally to develop workflows between their interactions
03:12 <@rizen> these workflows would be realtime, not async
03:13 <@rizen> so they would just set up what would happen from page to page
03:13 <@rizen> for example
03:13 <@rizen> let's say i want to build a rolodex
03:13 <@rizen> the "default" workflow would be to bring the user to a search interface
03:14 <@rizen> there would be an add link
03:14 <@rizen> which would take the user to a record creator interface
03:14 <@rizen> or if they search it would take them to a result set interfface
03:14 <@rizen> and clicking on a single result would let you view the data
03:14 <@rizen> and then there might be an edit link on it
03:14 <@rizen> all the while, the user is able to set up the screen interactions
03:15 <@rizen> as well as privileges for each thing
03:15 <@rizen> the UI will all be ajaxified
03:15 <@rizen> to make this a point and click operation...no programming or SQL knowledge needed
03:16 <@rizen> so the first thing i have to solve is
03:16 <@rizen> how do i allow a user to create a "table" or "tables" 
03:16 <@rizen> without actually creating physical tables in the database
03:16 <@rizen> or do i let them create physical tables
03:16 <@rizen> and then just not allow them to set the names of the tables 
03:17 <@preaction> i'd go with create physical tables, with appropriate countermeasures against name collisions
03:17 <@rizen> so that they can't overlap any namespaces that will ever be used in webgui
03:17 <@preaction> like the way we do collateral tables currently
03:17 <@preaction> "NewForm_DataTable_<ID or name or something>"
03:17 <@rizen> so would we do dbasset_DHEHXHDHGHEHXS
03:17 <@rizen> and allow them to alias that
03:18 <@rizen> we'd then have a table somewhere that would map the name to the dbasset_DHEHXHDHGHEHXS
03:18 <@rizen> table
03:18 <@preaction> probably the wobject configuration table
03:18 <@rizen> you mean the class table for that asset?
03:18 <@rizen> dbasset
03:18 <@preaction> yeah
03:18 <@rizen> or whatever?
03:19 <@rizen> that works fine if we only allow them one table per asset
03:19 <@rizen> but if we're allowing multiple tables, we need a seperate mappings table
03:19 <@preaction> true
03:19 <@preaction> and since it has to encompass all the possibilities of SQLForm, can't just limit to one table
03:20 <@rizen> i said this would be the spiritual successor
03:21 <@rizen> in the design of this i'm not willing to limit myself to having to deal with sqlform data
03:21 <@rizen> or dataform data
03:21 <@rizen> if we do it right, it will work for either
03:21 <@rizen> but i want to forget about those two assets for the time being
03:21 <@preaction> the mappings table would probably be a better idea anyway
03:21 <@rizen> because if you ask me, they're both piles of shit
03:21 <@rizen> granted, useful piles
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03:22 <@rizen> crap..what was the last thing you saw from me
03:23 <@preaction> "granted, useful piles"
03:23 <@rizen> rizen: but piles just the same
03:23 <@rizen> [7:22pm] 
03:23 <@rizen> ok
03:23 <@rizen> did you say anythign?
03:23 <@preaction> just that the mappings table would probably work better anyway
03:24 <@rizen> yeah...i think this thing should be able to handle multiple databases
03:24 <@rizen> i mean tables
03:24 <@rizen> i'm thinking about the same thing for the field names though
03:24 <@rizen> don't let the users set the field name
03:24 <@rizen> rather generate it
03:24 <@rizen> and alias it
03:25 <@rizen> i'm thinking this app should hide the mechanics from the user as much as possible
03:25 <@preaction> of course
03:25 <@rizen> well that's one thing that sqlform and dataform don't do well
03:25 <@rizen> you can pretty much see exactly what's going on underneath as a user
03:25 <@rizen> and i think that makes the whole thing less useful
03:28 <@rizen> ok then...the next area to figure out is how do we handle the different page types
03:28 <@rizen> do we say "add a report page"
03:29 <@rizen> "add a search page"
03:29 <@rizen> "add a data entry page"
03:29 <@rizen> does that make sense
03:29 <@preaction> yes
03:29 <@rizen> are there any other types
03:29 <@preaction> could just make that pluggable
03:30 <@rizen> so does a search have a search results page
03:30 <@rizen> or is that just another report page
03:31 <@preaction> could probably go either way, or even just a part of the "search" page
03:31 <@rizen> yeah, maybe...not sure
03:31 <@preaction> probably best as a report though, just a report that the user can configure what they want to see
03:31 <@rizen> i'm also thinking that this thing should not be templatable
03:32 <@rizen> instead we should have a drag and drop UI builder
03:32 <@preaction> with appropriate markup, a stylesheet can do almost everything the UI builder can't
03:32 <@rizen> right
03:33 <@rizen> i think making this thing templatable will just make it slow, and on top of that..too difficult for most users to do what they need to do
03:33 <@rizen> i'm starting to think that about all assets
03:33 <@rizen> or at least many of them
03:33 <@rizen> styles and page layout templates are sort of the exception
03:33 <@preaction> sometimes, yes
03:34 <@rizen> but at the very least...articles, polls, etc would probably be better served with a graphical ui builder
03:34 <@preaction> would said graphical UI builder just make a template for the user?
03:35 <@rizen> maybe..not sure...it's something i haven't designed yet
03:35 <@rizen> but that's why were' having this discussion
03:35 <@preaction> i mean, the templates are good for us as developers, because it's an easy way to get data out
03:35 <@rizen> and why i like to think about big projects many many months in advance
03:35 <@rizen> i like to think about what the prereqs will be
03:35 <@rizen> and work through all the problems...so when it comes time to build, i can just build it
03:36 < Radix-wrk> I like the control available in a template tho.  Most of the time it's not colours, but removing items, adding new items and text, formatting it to use my own style sheets rather than the stock stuff, etc.
03:37 <@rizen> you'd have that sort of stuff in a graphical ui builder though
03:37 < Radix-wrk> fair enough then I guess
03:37 <@preaction> and revealing things to TT you get the added bonus of whatever the heck you want (use ImageMagick in the template, for example)
03:37 <@rizen> you just wouldn't have access to the underlying code
03:38 <@rizen> because as soon as a user has access to the underlying code...they fuck it up
03:38 <@rizen> every time
03:38 <@rizen> =)
03:38 <@preaction> that's what users are for
03:38 <@preaction> (though perhaps some sort of verification of the template based on the Help files available might be a better solution)
03:38 <@rizen> well i gotta get ready for an upgrade now...so i guess we'll have to continue this some other time
03:38 <@preaction> oh god... forgot about that damned thing
03:39 <@preaction> it'll take you 45 minutes, and you'll spend two hours while they dick around...
03:39 <@rizen> but for now i'm going to have to say that i think we need a visual UI builder widget before i can attempt this sort of an asset
03:39 <@rizen> we'll see..i haven't even read what i'm supposed to do yet
03:40 <@preaction> all you should have to do, unless they undid everything i did, is move the databases, move the uploads, and replace the users
03:43 <@rizen> so you've already done the merge then?
03:43 <@preaction> there was no merge
03:43 <@rizen> the title of this invite that i got is donorware merge
03:43 <@rizen> nevermind..i'll just read it
03:59 < xdanger> preaction: I made a quick patch for the calendar.. and tested it on our clients site...
04:02 < xdanger> now I'll be going home for some sleep... and tomorrow it's party time... 4 years with the same girl =)
04:22 < Radix-wrk> no mean feat - enjoy your valentines day :)
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04:34  * SDuensin is gonna scream.
04:44 < SDuensin> What is 127.0.1.1?  Never used that before.  Apparently Spectre needs it?
04:45 < Radix-wrk> err
04:45 < Radix-wrk> 127.0.0.1 maybe
04:45 < Radix-wrk> not 1.1
04:45 < SDuensin> That's what I thought.  So I changed it.  Specter couldn't connect to anything.  So I put 127.0.1.1 back and now it's running.
04:45 < Radix-wrk> lol, you sure you don't have a typo somewhere else saying 1.1?
04:46 < SDuensin> The Ubuntu WRE setup even defaults to 127.0.1.1.
04:46 < SDuensin> I looked in my site's conf and in Spectre's conf.  Didn't see it.
04:46 < Radix-wrk> Oh - sounds like a bug then
04:46 < SDuensin> That's what I thought.
05:00 < SDuensin> Dunno what's wrong, but adding that IP made it work.  I'm happy again!
05:01 < Radix-wrk> is spectre processing changes correctly?
05:02 < SDuensin> Yep!  For the first time!   :-)
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05:49 < ckotil> thats odd.
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06:05 < PedersenMJ> good evening.
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06:16 <+perlDreamer> preaction: got a second?
06:38  * perlDreamer feeds snapcount's crickets
06:38 <+perlDreamer> you guys are getting a good workout today
06:39 < greghacke> or at least staying busy.
06:42 < PedersenMJ> Not getting a good workout, myself. Just staying busy with writing up my wcc entry :)
06:43 <+perlDreamer> keep going, PedernsenMJ.  There's only a few weeks left for your magnum opus
06:44 < PedersenMJ> Hey, I'm *almost* to the "conversion by example".
06:44 < PedersenMJ> I think I'm going to skip most all of the screen shots, though. With how many I was going to do, it would have been a small novel.
06:45 < Radix-wrk> Good practice for you I guess ;)
06:45 < PedersenMJ> Nah, I'm more of a fiction guy, I think. This is *definitely* not fiction :)
06:46 <+perlDreamer> I can't believe that 7.3.9 is coming out tomorrow
06:47 < PedersenMJ> Heh. I still need to upgrade from 7.3.5. Ah well, I'll do that after I finish my magnum opus.
07:03 < PedersenMJ> I'm kicking myself right now, because I'm not 100% sure: When creating a page template, and wanting to use it for a site theme, I must set the namespace to "style", correct? Or is it something else?
07:06 <+perlDreamer> A style template (regardless of whether or not it is for a page) needs to have the namespace 'style'.
07:06 <+perlDreamer> one of the things I want to do in 7.4 is have the help linked right when the namespace is set.
07:07 <+perlDreamer> so if the namespace is 'style', the help icon will link to the style template variables page
07:08 < PedersenMJ> Thank you. I was pretty sure I was right, but since I haven't made a style while working on this (and other household stuff), my memory had gotten a bit rusty.
07:09 < PedersenMJ> If you'd like to check out the work so far, it's at http://dev.icelus.tzo.com/wikidocs2/doc-wiki/how-to-make-webgui-look-like-your-site
07:09 < PedersenMJ> I've got four more sections to do, then I begin working through the convert by example. That, at least, should be fairly easy, I think.
07:28 < PedersenMJ> Wow... That feels good. Just finished those four sections. The next major chunk is going to be the example.
07:43 < ckotil> looks good.
07:46 < PedersenMJ> I'm hoping so. I think I'm only going to do the "Artistic Examination" piece of the conversion by example tonight. It's almost 1am here, and I do have to get to bed sometime.
07:50 < Hinrik> PedersenMJ: do you know of any other useful articles (about WebGUI) like this?
07:51 < PedersenMJ> Yes, actually, WebGUI done right. That resource, plus the people on this channel, are what make that article happen.
07:52 < PedersenMJ> https://www.plainblack.com/services/wdr
07:52 < Hinrik> I meant free ones :P
07:52 < PedersenMJ> That article, btw, is still being written. I'm hoping to complete it, and post it to the wiki, sometime this week.
07:52 < Hinrik> What wiki?
07:53 < PedersenMJ> Wait, crythias maintains a free FAQ. I've seen it linked from the forums on occasion.
07:53 < PedersenMJ> http://wiki.webgui.org/
07:53 < Hinrik> ok
07:59 < PedersenMJ> Hinrik: Is that article really useful already? I've been feeling it wouldn't be beneficial until complete.
08:00 < Hinrik> well, I haven't read it all :P
08:01 < PedersenMJ> I don't blame you. Last time I saved it to PDF, it was 10 pages long. I think the actual conversion section will be 3, maybe 4, pages long.
08:02 <+perlDreamer> are any of the devs awake?
08:02 <+perlDreamer> rizen?
08:02 <+perlDreamer> preaction
08:02 <@rizen> yup
08:02 <+perlDreamer> I've found a new bug
08:02 <@rizen> cool, that's my favorite
08:02 <+perlDreamer> I can fix it, but I don't think I can test it
08:02 <+perlDreamer> not in time for tomorrow
08:03 <@rizen> what is it?
08:03 <+perlDreamer> basically, you can't call session->icon->anything with getUrl because it adds the gateway to the URL twice.
08:03 <@rizen> that's not a bug
08:03 <+perlDreamer> once in getUrl, and then again inside session->icon
08:03 <@rizen> you're not supposed to call it that way
08:03 <+perlDreamer> it's done 20 times in the core
08:04 <@rizen> then it's done wrong
08:04 <+perlDreamer> can I fix it en masse?
08:04 <@rizen> $session->icon->edit("func=edit",$asset->get("url"));
08:04 <@rizen> i don't know if it can be done en masse
08:04 <+perlDreamer> :)
08:04 <@rizen> but it certainly can be done
08:05 <@rizen> you'll just have to find the variable for asset
08:05 <@rizen> whether it is $self
08:05 <@rizen> or $asset
08:05 <+perlDreamer> I'll get cracking on it.
08:06 <+perlDreamer> It's the bottom bug on the list, in case you're hacking tonight
08:06 <@rizen> i'm still doing client support
08:06 <@rizen> babysitting an upgrade for a client
08:07 <+perlDreamer> I spent 1.5 hours tracing BNT code
08:09 <@rizen> crappy
08:10 <+perlDreamer> if crappy == 'in desperate need of wG 7 and workflow' then yes
08:10 <@rizen> yes
08:10 <@rizen> BNT needs to be upgraded
08:10 <@rizen> i just wish they'd give the go ahead
08:14 <+perlDreamer> -3 bugs today
08:15 <+perlDreamer> The SQLReport processQuery needs to be completely reworked to handle pagination correctly
08:15 <+perlDreamer> The Post bug is outstanding and waiting on data
08:16 <+perlDreamer> And there's messed up docs in the SQL Form and Calendar
08:18 <@rizen> i only fixed 1 today
08:18 <@rizen> too much support
08:18 <+perlDreamer> I didn't think you were on support until tomorrow?
08:19 <@rizen> taking fri off so switched w doug
08:19 < greghacke> only one? ;)  BNT?
08:19 < greghacke> you should take a break and play some settlers ;)
08:19 <@rizen> i wish
08:19 <@rizen> hopefully i'll get to on friday
08:19 < greghacke> woot
08:22 < greghacke> I was looking at the pagination SQL issue today.
08:29 <+perlDreamer> greghacke: good luck
08:29 <+perlDreamer> that's not going to be an easy one
08:30 < greghacke> yeah, but I need to wrap my head around SQLReport and SQLForm.  I use them often and after fighting through all the core code, I want to start giving more back.
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08:35 <+perlDreamer> --3.5 bugs
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08:44 < PedersenMJ> JT, I gotta give credit where due: Writing docs is tough. I've been at it for about 3 hours now. Got a lot done, but still a lot to do. The fact that you're able to put together some 1000 pages of docs, even if it's with help, is impressive.
08:45 <@rizen> yeah its tough
08:46 < PedersenMJ> I think I've gotten all of 4, maybe 5 pages done today. And that doesn't include any proofreading. That's just a rough draft.
08:46 <@rizen> i generally write less than that
08:46 <@rizen> on a good day i can crank out 20 pages
08:46 <@rizen> but mostly it's 3-5
08:47 < PedersenMJ> Anyway, just wanted to let you know I can distinctly respect the effort you're putting in. This little project of mine has shown me that what I thought was mostly easy is anything but.
08:49 < PedersenMJ> Now, I'm really off to bed. Did way more than I intended to over the past hour. Need to get some sleep. Will see you guys manana.
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16:57 < SDuensin> Good morning.
17:18 < snapcount_> yay smoketests
17:19 < snapcount_> they've caught at least one problem before the release every week for a month now
17:19 <@rizen> nice
17:19 < snapcount_> indeed
17:20 <@rizen> i've found a new spectre issue, but i won't know if it's plainblack.com related until after we put 7.3.9 on some other machines
17:20 <@rizen> but the new status system that i added to spectre is fan damn tastic
17:20 <@rizen> oh, and i originally thought my memory improvements would be around 40%
17:20 <@rizen> it's closer to 55%
17:23 < SDuensin> Speaking of Spectre...   On the Ubuntu WRE, I have to have 127.0.1.1 in my site's conf or Spectre can't connect.   That seems odd.
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17:33 < greghacke> inquiry: Established a domain under development.  Added SSL, switched domain to live.  now the URL for secure pages points back to the development address
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17:35 < snapcount_> check the sitename in the settings
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17:36 <@rizen> SDuensin: why does that seem odd
17:36 < greghacke>  yeah, it points at the fully resolved domain name.
17:36 < SDuensin> 127.0.1.1?   Not 127.0.0.1.
17:37 <@rizen> oh
17:37 <@rizen> that is weird
17:39 < SDuensin> I thought so.  :-)
17:39 < greghacke> snapcount: should a Support request it?
17:39 < SDuensin> That's the default value during setup.  If you change it, it breaks.
17:41 <@rizen> we didn't build the ubuntu wre, so i can't say why it would be set up that way
17:41 <@rizen> but as the old doctors used to say
17:42 <@rizen> if it hurts when you do that, then don't do it
17:42 < SDuensin> :-P
17:42 < SDuensin> Just wanted you to know.
17:43 <@rizen> starting with 0.8.0 we'll be building the ubuntu wre ourselves
17:43 < SDuensin> Nowhere in my Spectre config does it have that IP.  Only in the site config.
17:43 <@rizen> so then we'll be able to figure that out
17:43 < SDuensin> Is there an example of the dashboard component somewhere that I can show to people?
17:43 < snapcount_> greghacke: yeah
17:43 < SDuensin> (I can't run my dev site from work - yet.)
17:46 < snapcount_> you can setup a dashboard for your user on the plainblack site
17:47 < snapcount_> or you could... maybe that went away after the redesign of our style
17:47 < snapcount_> I don't remember now
17:47 < SDuensin> I'll see if I can find it.  I'm logged in now.
17:47 < snapcount_> I'll look too
17:47 < SDuensin> Thanks.
17:47 < snapcount_> an upgrade is running so I'm waiting 
17:51 < snapcount_> it's gone
17:51 < snapcount_> sorry
17:52 < snapcount_> you can setup a demo but it only lasts for 24 hours
17:52 < snapcount_> and right now is not a good time b/c I'm upgrading the demo server
17:52 < snapcount_> but in a few hours it should be good
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17:56 < snapcount_> heh
17:56 < snapcount_> someone is in for a surprise
17:57 < snapcount_> they created a demo since I deleted all the others and it was probably just upgraded while they were using it
17:57 < snapcount_> interesting
17:57 < snapcount_> well, they were probably using it but it was definitely upgraded
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18:16 < snapcount_> well, the release is up to snuff
18:16 < snapcount_> it's going out... woo hoo!
18:18  * SDuensin probably made that demo site.  :-)
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18:18 < snapcount_> it's ok
18:19 < snapcount_> if it were 7.3 -> 7.4 for example, it could be funny
18:19 < snapcount_> b/c new features would suddenly "appear"
18:19 < snapcount_> so I could just picture the person using it going "what the heck?!"
18:19 < snapcount_> in your case about 60 bugs just got fixed
18:20 < SDuensin> :-)
18:20 < SDuensin> I just gave some coworkers a whirlwind tour of the admin interface.  At least, the parts I know how to use!
18:21  * SDuensin is still somewhat stuck in the 5.x days!
18:24 < snapcount_> ooh
18:24 < snapcount_> big changes indeed
18:24 < snapcount_> we're getting very close to the stability that 5.x enjoyed
18:24 < snapcount_> it's been a long road
18:25 < SDuensin> Big changes indeed.
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18:25 < SDuensin> The initial 6.x series hurt my head.  I wasn't able to run them on my host and then I quit keeping up.  Getting back into it now.
18:26 < snapcount_> yeah 6.x was a rough time
18:26 < snapcount_> it was a huge beta cycle in my opinion
18:26 < snapcount_> just about every line of code in the core was touched at one point
18:26 < SDuensin> Yikes.
18:27 < snapcount_> well a lot of core fundamentals were introduced, the whole idea of "content" changed
18:27 < snapcount_> i.e., the asset system
18:27 < snapcount_> so that had a pretty big ripple
18:27 < snapcount_> then you add versioning, workflow, etc
18:27 < snapcount_> it was "fun" =P
18:27 < SDuensin> hehe
18:28 < snapcount_> I thought rizen was going to loose his sanity
18:28 < SDuensin> Yea, I still have no idea how the workflow stuff works.  The collaboration stuff confuses me still, too.
18:28 < snapcount_> he worked almost 24/7 literally for two years
18:28 < SDuensin> I just got it running though.  I'll get there.
18:28 < snapcount_> it takes a bit, steep learning curve
18:28 < snapcount_> but once you get it you will love it
18:28 < SDuensin> Been there, done that.  Lived in the office for four years.
18:29 < snapcount_> very flexible and powerful
18:29 < SDuensin> I've already decided to switch all the content under my control back to it.  Good possibility the company I work for will do the same.
18:29 < snapcount_> awesome
18:30 < snapcount_> I didn't introduce myself btw, my name's Roy and I handle all of the community stuff for WebGUI and Plain Black
18:30 < snapcount_> so feel free to chat me up about anything if you see me around
18:30 < SDuensin> Greetings.  I'm Scott.
18:30  * SDuensin hands snapcount_ a @ for his name.
18:30 < snapcount_> oh yeah
18:30 < snapcount_> didn't even notice
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18:31 < SDuensin> :-)
18:31 <@snapcount> thx
18:31 <@snapcount> gotta finish this release up... looks like the push scripts finished
18:31 <@snapcount> bbiab
18:32 < SDuensin> I love that you guys afford to eat off an open source project.  Gives me hope.  :-)
18:32 < SDuensin> OK, I'll be here.  Banging away on my own code.
18:32 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui
18:33  * PedersenMJ waves.
18:33 < SDuensin> Hello PedersenMJ 
18:33 < PedersenMJ> How goes it?
18:34 < SDuensin> Not so bad.  Roads are almost passable here again and my code compiles.  :-D
18:34 < PedersenMJ> Roads might be passable near to me, but I still ain't going out. 2 wheel drive pickup and icy roads is not a good combo :)
18:35 < PedersenMJ> Code compiling, though, is *always* good :)
18:35  * SDuensin is in St. Louis.  Main roads are good.  Too bad he lives in the boonies.
18:38  * PedersenMJ is in NJ. I refuse to look at the roads outside the front door, and that road is still white.
18:39 < SDuensin> Yea, you're getting what passed through here yesterday.
18:40 < PedersenMJ> Yeah. It's nasty. Still, I'm home, I've got my wife, I've got heat, and I've got food. And, of course, internet. What more could a guy need?
18:40 < SDuensin> Video games?  :-)
18:42 < PedersenMJ> Touche :)
18:43 < SDuensin> Video games?  :-)
18:43 < SDuensin> Crap.
18:43  * SDuensin is an addict.  What can he say?
18:45 < PedersenMJ> Heh. I only bother with a few. Most of them don't do much of anything for me. Though I'm incredibly curious about getting the Wii.
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18:46 < isaacfinnegan> hello. Everyone up today?
18:46 < isaacfinnegan> had coffee?
18:46 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@cpe-71-72-101-120.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
18:46 < SDuensin> Yes and Yes!
18:46  * PedersenMJ never has liked the taste of coffee. Too bitter.
18:47 < SDuensin> McDonald's (of all places) has awesome coffee.
18:48 < PedersenMJ> Bleah. I used to work there, so try to avoid it all the time (used to == 20 years ago, btw).
18:48 < SDuensin> Damn man, that almost predates the "nugget"!
18:48 < isaacfinnegan> lol
18:49  * PedersenMJ now feels old. Worked there when I was 15. I just realized that was over half my life ago. Umm, actually, it does. I worked there when they introduced them.
18:49 < isaacfinnegan> Anyone ready for an Auth module question?
18:49 < isaacfinnegan> This early?
18:49 < PedersenMJ> Also the very first Monopoly game they did, too. That was a nightmare.
18:50 < isaacfinnegan> lol
18:58 < isaacfinnegan> gotta drive into work. bbl
18:58 -!- isaacfinnegan [n=wgGuest7@adsl-69-106-252-252.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit []
19:05 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui
19:07 < cap10morgan> how do you pass loops to a template? do you just create an entry in your %vars hash called 'loop' that is an arrayref?
19:09 <@snapcount> are you writing your own code?
19:09 < cap10morgan> snapcount: yeah
19:09 < cap10morgan> a macro
19:10 <@snapcount> basically you do this:
19:10 <@snapcount> actually
19:10 <@snapcount> hold on, better idea
19:11 <@snapcount> checkout line 266 of the InOutBoard wobject
19:12 <@snapcount> it shows the whole thing in context
19:12 <@snapcount> ask me if part of it doesn't make sense
19:12 <@snapcount> 267 actually
19:12 < cap10morgan> ok, cool, thanks
19:12 < cap10morgan> i also found an example in the product macro
19:12 < cap10morgan> i'll hack on those until i get stuck
19:13 <@snapcount> basically you need an array ref as the "loop variable"
19:13 <@snapcount> and each element of the array is a hash ref of variables to use in the loop
19:15 < cap10morgan> ok, makes sense
19:19 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
19:19 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ
19:19 -!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: [ Current: 7.3.9-stable ][ WRE: 0.7.2 ] <a href="http://www.plainblack.com/wcc">WCC = Karma, Cash, Recognition</a>
19:19 <@snapcount> uhh
19:19 <@snapcount> damn it
19:19 <+perlDreamer> shoot me
19:20 <@snapcount> I'm a dumb ass
19:20 < SDuensin> ?
19:20 -!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: [ Current: 7.3.8-stable ][ WRE: 0.7.2 ] WCC = Karma, Cash, Recognition (www.plainblack.com/wcc)
19:20 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: I know what I did, what did you do?
19:20 <@snapcount> ahh
19:20 <@snapcount> you saw your boo boo eh?
19:21 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:21 <+perlDreamer> I should have syntax checked _before_ committing
19:21 <@snapcount> it's all good
19:21 <@snapcount> you're smoketest found the problem
19:21 <@snapcount> so it balances out
19:21 <@snapcount> err your
19:21 <@snapcount> I set the title of the forum like I rode the short bus to work
19:22 <@snapcount> and I work from home
19:22 <+perlDreamer> isn't current 7.3.9?
19:22 <@snapcount> dang it
19:22  * snapcount puts his helmet on
19:22  * perlDreamer hands snapcount his buckler, belt and sword
19:22 -!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: [ Current: 7.3.9-stable ][ WRE: 0.7.2 ] WCC = Karma, Cash, Recognition (www.plainblack.com/wcc)
19:22  * perlDreamer goes scurrying away to find the boots and armor
19:22 < greghacke> ok, how do you guys do these dang emote like things?
19:23 <@snapcount> type "/me"
19:23 <+perlDreamer> slash me
19:23 <@snapcount> so "/me jumps"
19:23 <@snapcount> no quotes
19:23  * greghacke feels kinda like a short bus tool himself...
19:23 <@snapcount> you should write an IRC wiki entry greghacke as you pick this stuff up
19:23 <@snapcount> cuz you're smart just not familiar with IRC
19:24 <@snapcount> lots of people in your shoes I bet
19:24 < greghacke> it's been so damn long since i even looked at IRC
19:24 <@snapcount> so you could write a good one that's not overly simple but useful
19:24 < greghacke> gotta another wiki i have to post first.  need another day or two and a review before i post.
19:24 < SDuensin> Hey snapcount, any idea when the uber-new-does-everything-including-cooks-WRE will be out for Windows?
19:24 <@snapcount> post it then ask for review
19:24 <@snapcount> that's what wiki's are for =)
19:24 < greghacke> doing EMS
19:25 <@snapcount> we'll fix it as we go collaboratively
19:25 <@snapcount> doesn't need to be perfect first time around
19:25 <@snapcount> no, that's on rizen's list and he doesn't do deadlines
19:25  * SDuensin is wacko for wikis!   One of the main reasons I'm excited about 7.x!
19:26 <@snapcount> I think it's #3 on his projects list
19:26 < SDuensin> Doh!  "When it's done" is a game industry excuse!   :-)
19:26 <+perlDreamer> what are #2 and #1?
19:26 <@snapcount> so I'm guessing summer time
19:26 <@snapcount> but I have absolutely no idea honestly
19:26 <@snapcount> it's up to him and the forces of the world
19:26 < greghacke> SD: you know the game industry too?
19:26 < SDuensin> OK.  Just gathering information for the folks here at the office.
19:26 <+perlDreamer> Sduensin could run linux in a virtual machine under windows and have the best of both worlds
19:26  * SDuensin is going to run it on Linux like God intended.  :-)
19:26 < PedersenMJ> Hey, greghacke, what's your other wiki post that you're working on?
19:27 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - They're not too keen on Linux.
19:27 < greghacke> Event Management System top to bottom.
19:27 <@snapcount> I think they are an ubber cool rapid wobject code generator, and then a webgui site administrator contraption
19:27 <+perlDreamer> How about BSD?
19:27 <+perlDreamer> Solaris?
19:27 <+perlDreamer> HP-UX?
19:27 < SDuensin> greghacke, I'd love to be in the games business.  I can't work those hours now that I have a family.  
19:27 < SDuensin> Not so much Linux that's the problem.  It's "not Windows".
19:28 <@snapcount> ehh
19:28 <@snapcount> I hate that problem
19:28 < SDuensin> Me too.
19:28 <@snapcount> glad I don't live in Corp America anymore
19:28 <+perlDreamer> The only thing good about Corp America is stock options
19:28 < SDuensin> Well, it pays my bills.  Otherwise, I wouldn't have a Windows box anywhere near me.
19:28 < PedersenMJ> Ah, the ems should be an awesome one. Mine is likely to get the rough draft completed tonight.
19:28 < greghacke> PMJ: I've got the basic set together from event concept through creation of the asset, event entry, markdowns and grouping (ribbons), to sales and i am even writing an additional set on "ok, they've bought stuff and the event is about to start, what now?"
19:29 <@snapcount> nice
19:29 <@snapcount> the EMS is so freaking powerful it's almost unusable
19:29 < greghacke> I ran through it and had to run back out and hit it again from a non-game industry process.
19:29 < SDuensin> greghacke - I was really close at one point.  That's when I lived in the office for four years.  Not doing that again.
19:30  * SDuensin wrote the very first 4-player-over-modems Doom server.
19:30 < greghacke> the real issue, sc, is that there are a selection of questions you have to answer befoer you start.
19:30 <@snapcount> I remember leaving and returning for work and never seeing the sun
19:30 <@snapcount> that was depressing
19:30 <@snapcount> greghacke: you hit it on the head
19:30 <@snapcount> you have to plan first
19:30 < greghacke> i was woth northrop grumman - sun was for other people.  now i work non-electronic gaming.
19:30 <@snapcount> and then put that plan into the EMS
19:31 < greghacke> and that set of questions is the opening of the EMS wiki
19:31 <@snapcount> I can't wait to see it
19:32 <@snapcount> The wiki is slowly growing but it's growing
19:32 <@snapcount> I'm encouraged
19:32 < greghacke> i think I will end up doing the EMS wiki in several entries
19:32 <@snapcount> Use the autolinking feature to make it flow
19:33 <@snapcount> All you have to do is use the exact title of an entry in the wiki text
19:34 < greghacke> yeah, there are several sections that i have put together that are just oo long
19:34 <@snapcount> I'm working on some formatting improvements for the pb wiki
19:34 <@snapcount> I need to make RTE buttons
19:35 <@snapcount> then we can have standard formatting to make it easier to follow
19:35 <@snapcount> code blocks, etc
19:35 <@snapcount> highlight, click, done
19:35 <+perlDreamer> mmmmmm ..... clicky formatting goodness
19:36 <+perlDreamer> RTE needs a gvim plugin
19:36 <@snapcount> my installing wre article would benefit immensely from such clickety clickety
19:36 < SDuensin> What wiki syntax are you using?  Or did you make something up?   (I use MediaWiki all the time.)
19:36 <+perlDreamer> There is no syntax
19:36 <@snapcount> you can implement one
19:36 <@snapcount> using global replacements
19:36 <@snapcount> i.e., content filters
19:36 <+perlDreamer> that's true
19:37 < SDuensin> Funky.  Cool.  :-)
19:37 <@snapcount> same thing that filters dirty words
19:37 <@snapcount> instead of $*$&@ = bunnies
19:37 <+perlDreamer> that would kill my replacements/karma RFE idea though
19:37 <@snapcount> [b] = <b>
19:37 <@snapcount> and [/b] = </b>
19:37 <@snapcount> etc
19:37 <+perlDreamer> or even *b* => <b>b</b>
19:37 < SDuensin> Right, but links and such?   Is it CamelCase or [[MediaWiki]]?
19:38 < greghacke> i love camelCase
19:38 <+perlDreamer> links are smart
19:38 <@snapcount> well replacements won't preserve the b in the middle perlDreamer 
19:38 <+perlDreamer> bummer
19:38 <@snapcount> that's why you need opening and closing
19:38 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, linking is automatic
19:38 <+perlDreamer> if you use a phrase that is the Title of another Wiki article it is automatically recognized and linked
19:39 < SDuensin> I'm sure I'll get used to it.  :-)
19:39 <+perlDreamer> there's always the demo to tinker with
19:40 <@snapcount> the idea with the wiki was user friendly so that's why there is no meta language
19:40 <@snapcount> special syntax should be implemented with RTE buttons
19:40 < SDuensin> One thing I like about MediaWiki's links is that you can link to an article without quoting it's title.  For example, [[The Article Title|click to read it]].
19:40 <@snapcount> so they can highlight and click
19:40 <@snapcount> but for power users, that can be clumsy
19:41 <@snapcount> so if you prefer special markup, you can still do it
19:41 <@snapcount> it's just site wide
19:41 < SDuensin> Nice.
19:41  * SDuensin can't wait to get his site in running order!   Still making templates.
19:41 < greghacke> ok, it looks like i have been ordered to buy a copy of the primer.
19:41 <@snapcount> sweet
19:41 <@snapcount> the new books are even better imo
19:41 < SDuensin> Order me one, too, greghacke.   :-)
19:42 <@snapcount> but that's probably just because the content of the new books is more interesting to me
19:43 <@snapcount> did you guys see the release announcement?
19:43 < greghacke> for 7.3.9?
19:43 <@snapcount> yeah
19:43 < SDuensin> I didn't buy the primer.  Didn't think I'd need it since I subscribe to the docs.
19:43 <@snapcount> SDuensin: FYI, the subscription is being phased out by the docs
19:43 < greghacke> eh, my customers aren't that savvy so i'll order one and review it then buy more for those who need it.
19:43 <@snapcount> not sure when or how that will work
19:43 < SDuensin> !!!!
19:44 < PedersenMJ> Figures. I bought the subscription to WDR, and now it's going away :)
19:44 <@snapcount> but the idea is that the books will be the word
19:44 < SDuensin> I'm **VERY** glad to hear that!
19:44 <@snapcount> we'll take care of you
19:44 <@snapcount> they haven't worked out how the transition will occur
19:44 <@snapcount> but that's down the road
19:44 < greghacke> is full color worth the $12?  :-)
19:44 < SDuensin> I was *extremely* pissed (pardon my French) when it went from the "Ruling WebGUI" PDF to online.
19:44 <@snapcount> yeah I remember that switch
19:45 <@snapcount> some people didn't care at all, others went off the deep end
19:45  * SDuensin was in the deep end.  Off the high-board, even.
19:45 < SDuensin> I still don't like the screencasts.
19:45 <@snapcount> there have been a lot of ideas about how to handle docs and they all seem really good
19:46 <@snapcount> but don't fear, we won't screw you over regardless
19:46  * PedersenMJ usually doesn't care much. I don't mind paying for the docs, I just want to have a way to access them.
19:46 < SDuensin> I want some sort of searchable text.  You can't search a screencast.
19:46 <@snapcount> you can search a wiki =)
19:46  * snapcount promotes the wiki like a pimp
19:46 <@snapcount> hehe
19:47 <@snapcount> I _love_ collaborative documentation that the community manages
19:47 < SDuensin> I use wikis for all my development docs.
19:47 <@snapcount> b/c our community is smart
19:47 <@snapcount> we aren't the biggest, but we are highly effective
19:48  * greghacke wonders about the short-bus people like himself...
19:48 <@snapcount> take PedersenMJ for example, he's submitted like 3 themes in a month I think
19:48 < PedersenMJ> I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with the wiki article I'm finishing in the next few days. I know it should be split up, but I'm just not sure as to how.
19:48 <@snapcount> just get it in there
19:48 < PedersenMJ> Only two. I'll be adding a third along with my wiki article, though.
19:48 <@snapcount> we can pretty it up and improve it
19:48 < greghacke> even i managed to post something with thickbox
19:48 <@preaction> rizen: question: if i need to override www_edit in an Asset, do I still need to use getEditForm?
19:49 < PedersenMJ> Heh, I checked last night: It's at 13 pages now, and I expect another 3. Maybe 4 with the two screenshots I'm going to add in.
19:49 <@snapcount> preaction: if you don't, you won't get the default properties
19:49 <@preaction> "default properties"?
19:49 <@snapcount> Title
19:50 <@snapcount> etc
19:50 <@preaction> for example: Posts do not use getEditForm
19:50 <@preaction> they build their own form
19:50 <@preaction> by overriding www_edit
19:50 <@preaction> same with Events now
19:50 <@rizen> preaction: if you're circumventing it, you better have a really good reason for doing it
19:50 <+perlDreamer> preaction: posts have a templated edit form
19:50 <+perlDreamer> that's why they override
19:50 <@preaction> it's a template that i don't want to be part of the admin console view?
19:50 <@snapcount> that's a good reason me thinks
19:50 <@preaction> but it is possible to not get the admin console view with getEditForm, no?
19:51 <@preaction> just by not calling the superclass WebGUI::Asset::getEditForm
19:51 <@preaction> it seems almost a style issue: do you add the extra granularity of "getEditForm" when you're also overriding "www_edit"
19:51 <@snapcount> look at the superclass method, if it does something you don't like then you need your own =)
19:52 <@snapcount> did anyone ever answer me on the release announcement, I forget
19:52 < greghacke> i did.
19:52 <@snapcount> I want some feedback on including gotchas in it... good/bad/comments?
19:53 <@preaction> good, very good
19:53 < greghacke> i was unclear on the custom checkout template so I immediately went to look at the help.  the point, i believe
19:53 <@preaction> anything that makes gotchas more prominent so we can point and say "look, there's no way you couldn't have not seen them unless you were trying to not see them"
19:53 <@snapcount> greghacke: that was exactly the point
19:53 <@snapcount> it raises a flag
19:54 <@snapcount> hey, go look!
19:54 <@snapcount> kinda thing
19:54 <@preaction> "something's different you nob!"
19:54 <@snapcount> or "Danger, there's a snake!"
19:54 < SDuensin> On a plane!
19:54 <@preaction> "Don't drink the water, fish poo in it!"
19:54 <@snapcount> Lions, Tigers, Bears, oh my
19:55 <@snapcount> SDuensin: you will make a life long friend in rizen if you give props to Snakes on a Plane
19:55 <@snapcount> =)
19:55 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit []
19:55 < greghacke> or find him some really good board games.
19:55 <@snapcount> that too
19:55  * SDuensin still needs to buy the Doom and Stargate board games.  :-D
19:55 < greghacke> rizen: if you need a laugh - I am presently surrounded by somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000 in games.
19:56 <@rizen> preaction: no getEditForm has no wrapper
19:56 <@rizen> it's www_edit() that gives it that wrapper
19:56 < greghacke> and i am not in a game store but a private home...
19:56 <@rizen> so you can create www_edit() with your own wrapper and still call $self->getEditForm
19:56 < SDuensin> Too bad they're all copies of "ET" and "Combat", greghacke.   :-P
19:57 <@preaction> rizen: okay, my mistake (i saw the adding of additional admin console tabs in the WebGUI::Asset::getEditForm, and upon further investigation that's the only time the admin console is referenced)
20:01 < greghacke> the non-electronic games industry runs annual awards - the Origins Awards - i'm at the secretary's house and she has all the new games that have been nominated.
20:01 <@snapcount> greghacke: - fix: EMS: blank lines appearing in registrants.  Note - this fix requires the use of new template variables in the EMS checkout template.  See gotchas.txt for details.
20:01 <@snapcount> thats what those tmpl vars are for
20:04 <@preaction> i found the only good reason i can think of for not using a getEditForm method when overriding www_edit: userDefinedFields, any other situation should probably use getEditForm
20:05 <@rizen> what is this for preaction?
20:05 <@preaction> Alumni Q&A Live application
20:05 <@preaction> no user defined fields, just a standard form every time
20:05 <@rizen> the only good reason to circumvent it is if you want the user to be able to entirely template the form
20:05 <@rizen> which in most cases, you don't
20:05 <@preaction> which i don't, i just need a container so it looks purdy like they want it
20:06 <@preaction> and knowing DoS, the less power they have the better for whoever has to maintain their site
20:06 <@preaction> ... that sounded bitter?
20:06 <@rizen> you can't say things like that
20:06 <@rizen> seriously
20:06 <@preaction> apologies
20:12 < cap10morgan> ckotil: that os x intel build of the wre is on sourceforge now, fyi
20:12  * SDuensin cheers!
20:12 < cap10morgan> :)
20:13 < SDuensin> I love OS X.
20:13 <@rizen> me too
20:13 < greghacke> i love OS2
20:13 < greghacke> think we could do a WRE for OS2?
20:13 <@rizen> greghacke is fired
20:13 <+perlDreamer> AmigaOS
20:13 < ckotil> cool thanks
20:13  * SDuensin thinks greghacke has  partaken of the Kool Aid
20:14 <@snapcount> mmm Kool Aid
20:14 <+perlDreamer> rizen, note to self.  Kool Aid is not allowed in wG anymore
20:14 < greghacke> nor OS2.
20:15 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: http://entertainment.newsforge.com/entertainment/07/02/05/1542215.shtml?tid=22
20:16 <@snapcount> until I can plug my GH controller into the USB port of my Mac, that game is worthless =D
20:17 < SDuensin> Just get a PS2 adapter.
20:18 <@snapcount> they make such an animal?
20:18 <@snapcount> b/c there is supposed to be some GH knock off that is open source where you can upload your own music into it
20:18 < SDuensin> Oh hell yea - you can covert anything from an old Atari 2600 stick to a Wiimote to USB.
20:19 < SDuensin> That'd be Frets on Fire.
20:19 <@snapcount> the one I saw was called something else I think
20:19 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: didn't you fix the SQLForm pagination bug?
20:20 <@snapcount> maybe that was a different pagination bug
20:20 <@snapcount> SQLReport rather
20:21 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: no
20:21 <+perlDreamer> it's a very complex bug
20:21 <@snapcount> sweet
20:21 <+perlDreamer> _processQuery will need a serious thumping
20:21 < greghacke> pD: I looked at it last night.  you aren't kidding.
20:22 <@snapcount> can you explain what you've found so far so I don't have to start from scratch?
20:22 <+perlDreamer> every query gets paginated
20:22 <+perlDreamer> where only the top one should
20:22 <+perlDreamer> top=first=primary
20:23 <+perlDreamer> man, these transistors leak like a sieve!
20:23 <+perlDreamer> 49 pA/micron
20:24 <+perlDreamer> that's just nuts
20:24 < greghacke> but even if you hit the paginate count of the first, it doesn't paginate out.  so, if you set query1 for paginate 10, it will return all results.
20:27 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: the SQLForm template variables are not all fixed yet
20:27 <+perlDreamer> the super search template is undocumented
20:27 <@snapcount> Didn't Yung say that he fixed them?
20:27 <@snapcount> I read that in the thread
20:27 < SDuensin> snapcount - http://cgi.ebay.com/SmartJoy-PLUS-Playstation-2-to-USB-adapter-PS2-PS1-PC_W0QQitemZ9702469473QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3677QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
20:28 <+perlDreamer> Yung fixed the fact that the add/edit template and search templates were swapped
20:28 <+perlDreamer> not that the super template docs are missing
20:28 <+perlDreamer> in the search template doc, it says they're the same, but they're not
20:29 <@snapcount> SDuensin: thx... might have to get one of those when school is out and I have time to play games again
20:29 <@snapcount> ok... can you please open a new bug for that
20:29 <@snapcount> the other one kludged multiple issues together
20:29 <@snapcount> that's no good
20:30 <@snapcount> ty for catching it though
20:30 <+perlDreamer> np
20:30 <+perlDreamer> we all watch each others backs :)
20:33 < greghacke> rizen: instructions and river in route.
20:37 <@rizen> tanks
20:41 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: have you seen this bug
20:41 <@snapcount> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/weird-characters-in-webgui.log-caused-by-http-proxy#Hb8HB-TfyoijXTMd8YCyTw
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21:02 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: gotta go
21:02 <+perlDreamer> check the IRC logs for details with ckotil
21:02 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
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21:52 < ckotil> yah, pd has worked with me some on the issue
21:54 < ckotil> i added an application type for the rrd files so that they are no longer appear to webgui as being plain/text
21:54 < ckotil> but that didnt seem to fix it
21:56 <@preaction> how do I use the WebGUI::PseudoRequest object for testing purposes?
21:56 <@preaction> (located in t/lib/WebGUI/PseudoRequst.pm)
21:56 <@preaction> it looks like there's no way to set things, that I have to do it by editing the object's hashref
22:25 -!- wgGuest43 [n=wgGuest4@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui
22:25 < wgGuest43> hi
22:25 < wgGuest43> I created a demo site but the Feeds function in Calendards seems not working
22:27 <@preaction> what did you try? can you get the same URL from the internet? does an error message show up in that feeds tab?
22:28 < wgGuest43> no errors message in the feeds tab
22:28 < wgGuest43> I tried with various .ics files I found on google
22:28 <@preaction> what is the message?
22:29 < wgGuest43> or it's for RSS feeds?
22:29 <@preaction> it's for iCalendar/RFC 2445
22:29 < wgGuest43> there are no messages
22:29 <@snapcount> has the workflow run?
22:29 <@preaction> it's part of the hourly maintenance scheduled task, which it shouldn't be but that's how it is for now
22:30 <@preaction> so go into the Admin Console > Scheduler > Hourly Maintenance Tasks > Run
22:30 < wgGuest43> oh I see... That's why then it says "Updates -> never" and they don't show up
22:30 < wgGuest43> ok I'll try
22:30 <@preaction> yes, it hasn't been updated yet
22:30 <@preaction> if it has, it'll say something like "# added, # updated"
22:31 <@preaction> this is all stuff that would be in the docs if i ever got around to writing them :(
22:32 < wgGuest43> oh it shows an ugly "done" in a blank page...
22:32 <@preaction> that's what it's supposed to do
22:33 <@preaction> if you go back to the feeds tab of your calendar, the last updated should've changed, hopefully
22:33 < wgGuest43> yes it has
22:33 <@preaction> what does it say now?
22:33 < wgGuest43> it says not found... Tried with the wrong feed. I'll try another one
22:33 <@preaction> so far so good ;)
22:33 < wgGuest43> yep :)
22:34 < wgGuest43> but would be nice to have an update link right in the Feeds tab
22:34 <@preaction> yeah, that was specced but i ran out of time
22:34 < wgGuest43> oh ok
22:34 <@preaction> it was gonna be ajax and auto-update the last updated field, it was gonna rock
22:35 < wgGuest43> so it will be? :)
22:35 <@preaction> in fact, the javascript application for updating that table is in place, there's just no ajax call yet
22:35 <@preaction> there should be an RFE in there for that somewhere, otherwise someone will have to add it
22:36 <@preaction> plus an RFE for subscribing to calendars / events (like collab systems and threads)
22:37 < wgGuest43> mmh now it doesn't update on that feed
22:37 <@preaction> did you re-run the hourly maintenance stuffs?
22:37 < wgGuest43> yep
22:37 <@preaction> but still says "never"?
22:38 < wgGuest43> does it handle redirects? Because if I put that feed link in the browser, I get redirected before the download starts
22:38 < wgGuest43> yes
22:39 <@preaction> you know, i don't know if it automagically handles redirects, but if it doesn't it would probably show something like "Not an iCalendar feed" when it tried to read the "content" of the redirect
22:39 <@preaction> can i get the URL to the demo site you're using? and an admin password? i'll set up the scheduled workflow as it's supposed to be and see if I can reproduce, otherwise the bug is just "Calendar feeds should have their own scheduled workflow"
22:41 < wgGuest43> wait I managed to get the redirected link, I'll try to put that one
22:42 <@preaction> k
22:42 < wgGuest43> mmh nope.. Run the task again but it still says never
22:43 < wgGuest43> nope tried to rerun it 3 times
22:43 < wgGuest43> the url is http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1171484434_142/
22:44 < wgGuest43> and login is the default one
22:44 < wgGuest43> I didn't change it
22:44 <@preaction> k
22:45 < wgGuest43> strange because with the google groups .ics that returned 404, the update worked
22:45 < wgGuest43> now that the .ics file is there, it doesn't update
22:45 < wgGuest43> maybe the task doesn't run at all?
22:45 < wgGuest43> brb
22:46 <@preaction> the issue may be the calendar isn't committed, it has to be committed to be able to add events to it
22:46 <@preaction> so i'm gonna try that
22:48 <@preaction> didn't seem to fix it, so i'm going to try creating a new scheduled task just for updating calendar feeds
22:48 <@preaction> i lied, it worked
22:48 <@preaction> (on try two)
22:49 <@snapcount> ckotil: can you attach the offending rdd file to your bug report?
22:49 <@snapcount> how big is it?
22:50 <@snapcount> I tried to find one and couldn't.  Then I tried to create one but I can't get the software used to make one to actually work
22:50 <@snapcount> and don't want to waste anymore time with that if you can supply the file
22:53 <@preaction> found a bug... looks like the iCalendar parser i wrote sucks
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22:56 < wgGuest43> well the first time I run the task with that 404 feed, it worked and I didn't commit the Calendar
22:57 < wgGuest43> anyway it's possible for users to get a .ics feed of a calendar?
22:58 < wgGuest43> in other words, it can generate .ics feeds or it just grabs them?
22:58 <@preaction> generate: add ?func=ical to the URL
22:59 < wgGuest43> oh cool, so you'll add a link for it in Calendar templates?
23:00 <@preaction> the bug is: "Calendar Update Feeds doesn't handle event 'dtstart' correctly, or error gracefully"
23:00 <@preaction> the link to the iCalendar feed would be an RFE, if you'd like to add it
23:01 < wgGuest43> an RFE? But what's the point of a hidden feature? :)
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23:03 <@preaction> in the technical sense, it's an RFE. it's so small and so necessary that it will probably be added with a bugfix release, but we must go through the motions
23:04 < wgGuest43> ah ok so it's just a formal process you mean
23:05 < wgGuest43> have to go. See you!
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23:41 < cap10morgan> i noticed the 6.8.10 -> 7.2+ upgrade bug was fixed in 7.3.9. does that mean you can upgrade directly from 6.8.10 to 7.3.9 now?
23:42 <@preaction> yes
23:42 < cap10morgan> excellent
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02:06 <+perlDreamer> snap_brb: here's an RRD file for you wget -S http://stryper.uits.iu.edu/abilene/losa-sinet-bits.rrd
02:10 <@preaction> perlDreamer: you have a minute to talk about testing?
02:10 <@preaction> just need to ask someone who might know about WebGUI::PseudoRequest
02:11 <+perlDreamer> ask away, preaction
02:11 <+perlDreamer> I used it inside t/Session/Http.t, for reference
02:11 <@preaction> how do I use it? right now i'm adding parameters using accesses to the bare hashref
02:12 <@preaction> so my $fakeReq = new WebGUI::PseudoRequest; $fakeReq->{param}->{"name"} = "value";
02:13 <+perlDreamer> try setup_param
02:14 <@preaction> from what i'm seeing that doesn't actually DO anything, but i'll look again
02:14 <@preaction> oh, i see, it sets the entire hash reference
02:15 <+perlDreamer> I wrote a lot of it looking at future tests that haven't been written yet.
02:15 <@preaction> on another note: i'm doing some test-driven development, even if it's only for a client application (not a core app)
02:16 <+perlDreamer> As long as the current test suite continues to pass, please feel free to change it as you see fit.
02:16 <+perlDreamer> that's sweet about the TDD
02:17 <@preaction> actually i like the hashref idea better, but what i should do is document the interface
02:18 <@rizen> there's nothing sweet about TDD
02:18 <@rizen> cool...but not sweet
02:19 <@rizen> got a question for you guys....
02:19 <@rizen> how important do you think it is to have recordings of online training sessions to refer back to
02:20 <+perlDreamer> Up until the next software update, moderately important 7/10
02:20 <@preaction> i think they'd be an asset to the company, if nothing else
02:20 <@rizen> assuming that the next software update makes the old recordings irrelevant
02:21 <@rizen> which is going to be rare in the 7.x world
02:21 <@rizen> ok...we're setting up this whole webinar thing
02:21 <@rizen> but the recordings are a bit of a bear
02:22 <@rizen> each recording is likely going to be >300MB
02:22 <@preaction> even after compression?
02:22 <@rizen> which will take a long time to upload to the server on your average broadband connection
02:22 < ckotil> indeed
02:22 <+perlDreamer> convert to flash, like YouTube?
02:23 <@rizen> that's before compression...but i'm not sure how much compression will save us
02:23 <@rizen> cus the presentation has text on the screen
02:23 <@rizen> so we can't let it get very artifactish
02:23 < ckotil> youtube clips are small
02:23 < ckotil> ah.
02:23 <@rizen> yeah, but they knock the resolution down to 320x200
02:23 <@rizen> and then just stretch the video
02:24 <@rizen> if we did that, you wouldn't be able to see any text
02:24 <@rizen> not the slides
02:24 < ckotil> yeah. 300mb files would eat up your bandwidth
02:24 <@rizen> and certainly not any text on the webgui interface
02:24 <+perlDreamer> no
02:24 <@rizen> we have lots of bandwidth to spare
02:24 < ckotil> thats good ;]
02:24 <@rizen> from the server
02:24 < ckotil> i mean data allotment then?
02:24 <@rizen> but the bandwidth from the client
02:24 <@rizen> which will be the person giving the presentation
02:25 <@rizen> doug one month, me another, kristi many months
02:25 <@preaction> it can't be recorded from a participant?
02:25 <@rizen> usually broadband connections have very small upload pipes
02:25 <@rizen> no...participants can't record
02:25 <@rizen> well...maybe if they have a screen capture device or something
02:25 <@rizen> but the software itself is only recordable by the presenter
02:26 <@rizen> so if you guys come to my office, where i have a 1MB connection up
02:26 <@rizen> that will go faster
02:26 <@rizen> but at your office, you probably only have 256k up?
02:26 <@rizen> right?
02:26 <@preaction> 128 if i'm lucky
02:26 <@rizen> ok
02:26 <@rizen> even worse
02:27 < ckotil> so these things will be live and allow viewers to ask questions along the way?
02:27 <@rizen> yes
02:27 < ckotil> sweet
02:27 <@rizen> 1 hour of presentation...where people can ask question
02:27 <@rizen> and up to 1 hour of q&a afterwards
02:27 <@preaction> with proper FTP resuming, it'll take time sure, but it'll eventually get there
02:28 <@preaction> or we could get some of those resealable envelopes and some sort of rewritable media
02:28 <@preaction> pen drive, dvd+rw, or something
02:28 <@rizen> you mean and mail out the dvds to people?
02:28 <@rizen> or do you mean mail them to my office
02:28 <@preaction> to the office
02:28 <@preaction> so connection interruptions don't kill the upload
02:28 <@preaction> but training DVDs might be a good idea as well
02:29 <@rizen> i suppose, but i'd prefer not to be the bottlekneck
02:29 <@rizen> maybe dvds would be a good idea...don't know
02:29 <@rizen> but that requires authoring
02:29 <@rizen> which takes even more time
02:32 <+perlDreamer> how about print on demand from lulu.com?
02:32 <+perlDreamer> just upload once then let them do the work
02:32 <+perlDreamer> and send you the profits?
02:32 <+perlDreamer> (minus fees, of course)
02:33 <@rizen> yeah, but we still have to create dvd's out of the raw video files
02:33 <@rizen> i was thinking about lulu
02:33 <@rizen> but you can't upload raw video to them
02:33 <@rizen> you have to author a dvd and save it as an iso
02:33 <@rizen> to upload
02:34 <@rizen> i guess they do have the download service
02:34 <@rizen> so we could upload raw files
02:34 <@rizen> but then people will have to be able to play windows media files
02:34 <@rizen> and spend time downloading them
02:34 <@rizen> rather than just getting a dvd shipped to them
02:34 <@rizen> hmmm...
02:35 < Radix-wrk> We use camtasia and save it as flash here for our online videos - works well
02:36 <@rizen> i've used that before...can't use it for live webinars
02:36 <@rizen> not a bad program though
02:37 <@rizen> the next thing i have to do is see how much we can compress the files without losing so much quality that you can't see them
02:37 <@rizen> i'm guessing...not much
02:37 <@rizen> mainly due to text
02:37 < Radix-wrk> voice you can compress heaps generally, but yeah.. text is the bitch
02:38 < Radix-wrk> that's why the camtasia codecs are so good - they're designed for screen updates and fine text
02:38 <@rizen> yeah, i'm thinking what we can do to compress the video is not actually compress it
02:38 <@rizen> but instead lower the frames per second
02:38 < Radix-wrk> What are you using to broadcast the webinars?
02:39 <@rizen> we're looking at a number of systems
02:39 <@rizen> but webex is one, gotowebinar.com is one, infiniteconferencing is another
02:40 <@rizen> right now i'm leaning toward gotowebinar
02:40 <@rizen> it seems to work the best
02:40 <@rizen> we're having audio problems from webex
02:40 <@rizen> we've been testing systems this whole week
02:40 <@rizen> tested more than 15 broadcasting systems this week
02:40 <@rizen> it's been nut
02:40 <@rizen> nutz
02:41 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, I think we've used WebEx - and we gave another one a try
02:41 <@rizen> webex is pretty pricey too
02:41 <@rizen> we'd have to raise the price of the webinars if we used them
02:41 < Radix-wrk> we have several developers offsite - so we've looked at a few just to have coordinated programmer meetings
02:42 <@rizen> we'll be able to use whatever we choose for that sort of thing as well
02:42 <@rizen> but the main reason for buying it is for these webinars
02:42 <@rizen> because a lot of people either can't afford to travel to the wuc
02:42 <@rizen> or can't afford to have us travel to them
02:42 <@rizen> and still want training
02:44 <+perlDreamer> maybe you need regional training centers/specialists
02:45 <@rizen> in order to make it work, we'd need one in every state
02:45 <@rizen> not to mention the various other countries we service
02:46 < Radix-wrk> like us here :)
02:46 <@rizen> radix, what's your GMT modifier there?
02:46 < Radix-wrk> +9 atm
02:46 < Radix-wrk> daylight saving is in effect
02:47 <@rizen> we're -6 right now because of dst also
02:47 <@rizen> normally -5
02:47 < Radix-wrk> sydney/east coast is +11 atm
02:48 <@rizen> hmmm
02:48 <@rizen> no matter how i schedule it...there'd be no way to accomodate you live
02:48 <@rizen> unless we did it at around 8pm our time
02:49 < Radix-wrk> np
02:49 <@rizen> i'm not actually asking specifically for you
02:49 <@rizen> we have other clients in oz
02:49 < Radix-wrk> i figured that :)
02:50 < Radix-wrk> I know the problem though - it's not easy to accomodate everyone
02:50 <@rizen> in the US alone it's tough
02:50 <@rizen> because we have 6 time zones
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02:51 < Radix-wrk> Shh.. he's here
02:51 <@rizen> alright...dinner time
02:51 <@rizen> thanks for the feedback guys
02:52 < PedersenMJ> Hmm, I show up, Radix tells all to be quiet, and JT heads out. I've *really* gotta switch deodorants :)
02:54 <+perlDreamer> nah, just read the IRC logs
02:55 <@preaction> no, we're not doing that
02:55 < PedersenMJ> So, where are the IRC logs?
02:56 < Radix-wrk> rizen: the other one we've used is eBlvd - which is *okay*
02:57 < Radix-wrk> PedersenMJ, I'm just pulling your chain ;)
02:57 < Radix-wrk> PedersenMJ, glad to see I got a reaction tho ;)
02:57 <+perlDreamer> PedersenMJ: http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/2007-02.log
02:58 <+perlDreamer> indexed by year-month
02:58 < Radix-wrk> lol
02:58 < PedersenMJ> Actually, it was preaction's comment: I wanted to know what he was saying you weren't doing.
02:58 <+perlDreamer> really, we weren't doing anything
02:58 <+perlDreamer> but the logs don't lie
02:58 <+perlDreamer> at least until Radix-wrk starts hacking them, that is
02:58 <@preaction> yes they do, they say i'm a jerk, but they're lying
02:58 < PedersenMJ> The "shh.. he's here" thing? Been on mush/muds for some years. I did that sort of thing all the time. I know it's just chain pulling :)
02:59 < Radix-wrk> PedersenMJ, yup.. and yet it still got you wondering ;)
03:00 < Radix-wrk> I notice those logs stop just at the point where I log in
03:01 < PedersenMJ> Sorry to disappoint, but I thought preaction was commenting on something technical. Was curious what WebGUI (or some group using it) was doing or not doing.
03:01 <+perlDreamer> preaction: did you get anywhere with the javascript RTE asset tree linking bug?
03:01 <@preaction> perlDreamer: nope
03:01 <+perlDreamer> Do you know javascript well?
03:01 <+perlDreamer> (I don't)
03:01 <@preaction> PedersenMJ: no, it was more like "no, we're not going to see the logs" sort of thing 
03:02 <@preaction> perlDreamer: I get by, it's not as bad as Perl seems to beginnings
03:02 <@preaction> ers
03:02 <@preaction> something
03:02 <+perlDreamer> I think I know how to fix the bug, but don't know JS well enough to do it
03:02 <+perlDreamer> You game enough to try my idea?
03:02 <@preaction> sure
03:02 < PedersenMJ> Ah. Oh well, someday I'll look up the logs. Might actually be useful stuff in there.
03:03 <+perlDreamer> The RTE ships with its own linker.
03:03 <+perlDreamer> It works
03:03 <+perlDreamer> you can link anything with it
03:03 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI's custom linker doesn't work with images because there's no "text" to extract.
03:03 <+perlDreamer> If the wG linker used what the RTE linker uses, then it would be fixed
03:04 <+perlDreamer> actually, if the wG linker could subclass and extend the RTE linker, it would work best.
03:04 <@preaction> what are the file names i'm looking at?
03:04 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI/Operation/FormHelpers.pm
03:04 <@preaction> k
03:05 <+perlDreamer> www/extras/tinymce2/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/{advlink,pagetree}
03:06 <+perlDreamer> advlink contains the RTE code
03:06 <+perlDreamer> FormHelpers and pagetree are wG specific code
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03:08 <@preaction> this is almost evil...
03:11 <@preaction> it's the "insert webgui image" thing that's broken right?
03:12 < Radix-wrk> What's broken about it?
03:15 <@preaction> it's the insert link to webgui asset thing, it only works on text, not on images
03:16 < Radix-wrk> Ahh.. k.. interesting
03:17 <+perlDreamer> yes
03:17 <+perlDreamer> that's it
03:17 < Radix-wrk> http://mentalhouse.net/irc/webgui - heh.  PedersenMJ wrote the longest lines, averaging 97.1 letters per line.  #webgui average was 36.8 letters per line.
03:17 < Radix-wrk> he's writing his novel in #webgui!
03:17 <+perlDreamer> the subroutine that the webgui linker calls doesn't do images
03:18 <+perlDreamer> or probably anything other than text, but I haven't verified that.
03:18 <+perlDreamer> I'll be in an' out for a bit
03:18 <+perlDreamer> making dinner for the family
03:19 < PedersenMJ> Wow. Now I really have to keep my average up, somehow. Wonder what I can do to ensure that I make longer and longer lines, so that I bring the whole channel average up?
03:23 < Radix-wrk> heh
03:23 < Radix-wrk> I'm
03:23 < Radix-wrk> working
03:23 < Radix-wrk> on
03:24 < Radix-wrk> killing
03:24 < Radix-wrk> the
03:24 < Radix-wrk> average
03:24 < Radix-wrk> sorry ;)
03:25 < PedersenMJ> That's okay. I'll just go for lines long enough that they don't allow me to type anymore. After all, we gotta keep the overall average up somehow, even with average killers like you around. Heck, I could probably go for some Olde English type stuff (a few thee's, a few thou's, and suddenly I'm getting four characters just to say "you"!). All in all, I can make up for it. I think. Well, I'll try anyway.
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03:31 < Radix-wrk> heh
03:36 <@preaction> perlDreamer: I've fixed it, i think
03:37 <@preaction> anyone around want to test something for me?
03:38 <@preaction> lib/WebGUI/Operation/FormHelpers.pm -- line 182, change "window.opener.tinyMceSelectedText" to "window.opener.tinyMCE.selectedInstance.selection.getSelectedHTML()"
03:39 <@preaction> btw, Firebug is officially the BEST WEB DEBUGGING TOOL EVER
03:44 < ckotil> i agree
03:45 <@preaction> it looks like it just works, even though i'm doing just about no logic at all with it
04:16 <+perlDreamer> I'll give it a go
04:16 <+perlDreamer> that's one long method
04:16 <+perlDreamer> can't we abbreviate it?
04:16 <+perlDreamer> something short, like
04:17 <+perlDreamer> fred
04:17 <@rizen> only if F.R.E.D. has a super cool rube goldbergian meaning
04:18 <+perlDreamer> Freakin' righteous extreme destructor
04:18 <@rizen> that's pretty cool, but i think you could do better
04:18 <@rizen> =)
04:19 <+perlDreamer> Foul, raunchy extruded dung
04:19 <+perlDreamer> Flippin' rubber elephants downstairs
04:19 <+perlDreamer> Found, returned, ejected, disposed
04:20 <@rizen> ok...do any of those have anything to do with what FRED is?
04:20 <+perlDreamer> Freely redistributable electronic doohickey
04:20 <@rizen> ooh, that's cool
04:21 <+perlDreamer> Finally realized exact duplication
04:21 <+perlDreamer> Finely realized energon distribution
04:21 <@rizen> wahoo just closed a bug and i didn't have to do a thing
04:21 <@rizen> i love those
04:21 <+perlDreamer> which one?
04:22 <@rizen> we should only have those
04:22 <@rizen> the one about the RTE throwing a javascript error in firefox 2
04:22 <@rizen> it's not replicatable 
04:22 <@preaction> woot!
04:22 <@rizen> but one of our other users saw it once
04:22 <@rizen> and suggested that the user turn off and on javascript
04:23 <@rizen> cuz she's seen something similar before and that fixed it
04:23 <@rizen> plus, he was reporting it for 6.8
04:24 <+perlDreamer> 6.98
04:24 <+perlDreamer> 6.8
04:24 <+perlDreamer> that is so 2006
04:26 <@rizen> doug, if you're here
04:26 <+perlDreamer> double crap
04:26 <@rizen> ignore the pages
04:26 <+perlDreamer> Can someone else please test the insert WebGUI image thing in the RTE?
04:26 <@preaction> oh, good
04:26 <@rizen> her server is at a tipping point...and she's got some event going on that's increasing the load
04:26 <@preaction> i thought elitedesigns was going nuts
04:26 <@rizen> i've warned her this would happen
04:26 <@rizen> it is going nuts
04:26 <@rizen> but i'm on it
04:26 <@preaction> k
04:27 <@rizen> the load was just at 10.75
04:27 <@preaction> rofl nice
04:27 <@preaction> perlDreamer: it works?
04:28 <+perlDreamer> I can't insert an image to test it with
04:28 <+perlDreamer> FF 1.5.something
04:28 <@preaction> get google's logo or something
04:28 <@preaction> ah... hum
04:28 <+perlDreamer> webgui.log is empty
04:29 <+perlDreamer> I'll point to an existing image in the extras area
04:29 <@rizen> has anyone here installed webgui 7.3.9 yet?
04:30 < Radix-wrk> not me
04:31 <+perlDreamer> preaction: your fix works
04:31 <@preaction> woot
04:31 <+perlDreamer> now to see what's happening with the add WebGUI Image dialog...
04:31 <+perlDreamer> it's creating new storage nodes, but they're empty
04:32 <+perlDreamer> maybe I should try it on the demo system...
04:32 <@rizen> it should create 50 or so storage nodes per image
04:33 <+perlDreamer> ditto on demo
04:33 <+perlDreamer> upload looks okay, but no insertable image
04:36 <+perlDreamer> then it's trebly broken
04:36 <+perlDreamer> 1) only created 7/upload
04:36 <+perlDreamer> 2) Can't upload via the RTE image loader
04:36 <+perlDreamer> 3) Can link to an existing image via the image linker, either.
04:36 <+perlDreamer> Time to play Go Fish
04:36 <@rizen> i'm sorry...i meant to say that it should do those 3 things
04:42 <@rizen> i'd like to quickly talk about the sql report paginator
04:42 <@rizen> didn't i hear you talking about that the other day pd?
04:43 <@rizen> perlDreamer?
04:46 <@rizen> nevermind...i'll figure it out
04:54 <@rizen> fixed
05:09 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui
05:11 < PedersenMJ> Sorry about that. Closed the wrong window, got distracted.
05:32 <+perlDreamer> I'm back now
05:33 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@cpe-71-72-101-120.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
05:34 <+perlDreamer> evening, greg
05:34 < greghacke> Good eve, Colin
05:35 <+perlDreamer> that paginator fix wasn't so bad after all
05:35 < greghacke> what you guys find?  just got rizen's fix.
05:36 <+perlDreamer> it's like 4 lines of code
05:36 <+perlDreamer> I'm an id10t
05:43 <@rizen> easy peasy
05:44 < PedersenMJ> Wahoo! 15 pages long, my first draft is done.
05:44 < greghacke> what''d you do rizen?
05:44 <@rizen> the sql report fix
05:44 <@rizen> i'm just saying it was easy
05:44 < PedersenMJ> Now I have to verify that all my instructions work as advertised, and then I'll begin the transfer to wiki.webgui.org
05:44 <@rizen> when i heard you guys discussing it before...i feared the worst
05:44 <@rizen> but then it turned out to be trivial
05:45 <+perlDreamer> cool, then all you need to do next is fix the RTE Image uploader and linker when useAssetUrls is set to false in the config file
05:46 <@rizen> i'm not smart enough to do two cool things in one day
05:47  * PedersenMJ blinks. Okay, who are you, and what did you do with the real JT?
05:47 -!- crythia1 [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
05:47 -!- crythia1 is now known as whiner
05:48 < whiner> I can't get WebGUI to work.
05:48 < whiner> I'm running PostGRESQL
05:48 < greghacke> well, remember that position I mentioned, Rizen?  it's looking better...
05:49 <@rizen> pedersenmj: i'm pacing myself
05:49 < whiner> If I put postgresql on 3306, could it work?
05:49 <@rizen> whiner: are you serious?
05:49 -!- greghacke is now known as iphone
05:49 < whiner> of course not.
05:50 <@rizen> greghacke: awesome...good luck. that would be amazing for you\
05:50 < iphone> can I run webgui on OS2/Warp?
05:50 <+perlDreamer> make them use WebGUI!
05:50 <@rizen> iphone: yes
05:50 -!- iphone is now known as greghacke
05:50 -!- whiner is now known as crythia1
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05:52 < crythia1> hrm
05:54 <+perlDreamer> can someone else please try to upload an image into the Asset manager on 7.3.9?
05:54 <@rizen> any particular size, type, color, etc?
05:54 <+perlDreamer> nope
05:55 <@rizen> k, doing it
05:55 <+perlDreamer> just an image, right in the asset manager
05:55 <+perlDreamer> I'll try a filepile next
05:55 <@rizen> with file pile?
05:55 -!- crythia1 is now known as crythias
05:55 <@rizen> or using the image asset?
05:55 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ
05:55 <@rizen> ok
05:55 <@rizen> nevermind
05:55 <@rizen> crap
05:56 < greghacke> that didn't sound fun.
05:56 <+perlDreamer> file piles don't work either
05:56 -!- crythia1 [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui
05:56 <@rizen> i don't have image turned on in my dev environment
05:56 <@rizen> doing it down
05:59 <+perlDreamer> I promised to spend the rest of the evening with Kathy.
05:59 <+perlDreamer> If anyone has any ideas, please drop me an email or drop a note here
05:59 <+perlDreamer> I'll read the logs tomorrow
05:59 <+perlDreamer> night, all
05:59 <@rizen> no
05:59 <@rizen> you can't leave
05:59 <@rizen> it's vday
05:59 <+crythias> ideas about spending the night with Kathy?
05:59 <@rizen> don't you love me
05:59 <@rizen> you must stay with me
05:59 <@rizen> =)
05:59 <+perlDreamer> Ah, Mongo is straight!
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06:58 < PedersenMJ_> Woohoo! My instructions worked. I've got my three files, I've got my screenshots. I'm going to work on posting it now.
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07:13 < PedersenMJ_> Okay, so, I'm an idiot, but I don't understand how to add an image to a wiki article.
07:13 <@rizen> you cant
07:13 <@rizen> not until 7.4
07:14 < PedersenMJ_> Okay. Dumb, annoying question then: Is there any preferred way for me to use an external site? I can host the two screenshots on my own server, but don't know if you want such images in the wiki.
07:16 <@rizen> we don't need no stinking images meng
07:17 < PedersenMJ_> This article benefits from it, definitely. Can remove them, I suppose, but it definitely did benefit.
07:17 <@rizen> i don't care about you meng
07:18 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui
07:18 < PedersenMJ_> Hey, Radix: Finally posting my article at the wiki: http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/how-to-give-webgui-your-own-style
07:21 <@rizen> ok new rich editor applied to wiki
07:21 <@rizen> click image button
07:21 <@rizen> paste url to external image
07:22 <@rizen> quit yer bitchin meng
07:23 < Radix-wrk> heh
07:23 < PedersenMJ_> Heh. Wasn't going to bitch any further. Was going to host local. But thank you, I do appreciate it.
07:31 < PedersenMJ_> Sweet! It's only 15 pages.
07:32 < PedersenMJ_> Putting it down for tonight. Will do more review tomorrow, a