--- Log opened Thu Mar 01 00:00:52 2007 00:01 <+perlDreamer> I could use a little help with a debug. Is there someone in channel with IE7 and willing to help? 00:10 <@rizen> i don't have IE 7, but i'm willing to help 00:10 <@rizen> =) 00:10 <@rizen> i can download it, but i have to leave in 10 minutes..so it will have to wait until either really late tonight or tomorrow 00:11 < pjesi> why do you need ie7? 00:12 <+perlDreamer> I was demo'ing WebGUI to a potential customer this morning with IE7 and the demo site was completely broken. 00:12 <+perlDreamer> It works fine with Mozilla. 00:12 <+perlDreamer> So I'd like a double check before submitting a bug 00:13 <@rizen> steve and frank told me they went through all of webgui and fixed everything ie7 related 00:13 < pjesi> submit the bug to microsoft 00:13 <+perlDreamer> pjesi: that's funny 00:13 < pjesi> well it is their product that is broken 00:13 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I think there are open IE7 bugs on the board 00:14 < pjesi> perlDreamer: is it specific to the demo template? 00:14 <+perlDreamer> pjesi: I don't know 00:15 <+perlDreamer> I beat a hasty retreat, blamed it on release day, and scheduled another meeting next week. 00:17 < pjesi> I have always made sure firefox is available on the presentation computer on meetings 00:17 <+perlDreamer> It was a spur of the moment thing. 00:17 <@preaction> perlDreamer: what about the demo site is broken in IE7? 00:18 <+perlDreamer> I created a demo site and tried to login as admin. 00:18 <+perlDreamer> It kicked me back to the demo create screen. 00:18 <@preaction> k, i just tried that and it worked 00:18 <@preaction> might've been a release thing, when did you do it? 00:19 <+perlDreamer> 8:45am PST 00:19 <@preaction> so 11:45a roy's time 00:19 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I was thinking of the IE6 and "IE and Firefox" bugs. IE7 is clean on the boards 00:19 <+perlDreamer> preaction: yup 00:20 <@preaction> you might've been doing it while the demo sites were being updated 00:22 <+perlDreamer> I'll bring my laptop to the next one, just in case. 01:01 <@preaction> is the empty style supposed to include and the proper head tags? 01:05 <+perlDreamer> I remember coming across that during testing. 01:05 <+perlDreamer> let me check 01:05 <@preaction> it doesn't, but is it supposed to? 01:06 <@preaction> i'm thinking no, that you use the empty style when you generate the entire html doc yourself (or RSS, or otherwise) 01:06 <+perlDreamer> or when embedding in javascript windows, ala FormHelpers 01:10 <+perlDreamer> Have you seen the bug about groupIdEventEdit? 01:11 <+perlDreamer> I think it's actually an opinion. What do you think? 01:12 <@preaction> haven't seen it 01:13 <@preaction> actually, groupIdEventEdit was set to the groupIdEdit of the Calendar 01:13 <@preaction> they can change it. that's the idea 01:14 <+perlDreamer> the bug is that it was set to 3 instead of groupIdEdit 01:14 <@preaction> wait, it's groupIdEventEdit that got changed? 01:15 <@preaction> ohhh, it's from the 7.2.3-7.3.0 upgrade 01:15 <+perlDreamer> bug already fixed? 01:16 <@preaction> no, i believe that it is explicitly set to "3", let me check 01:17 <@preaction> looks like it isn't explicitly set to anything, but defaults to "3" 01:18 <+perlDreamer> sidenote: I added a test to Style.t that explicitly checks for html, head and body tags in the empty style template. 01:18 <@preaction> one-line fix: $properties->{groupIdEventEdit} = $properties->{groupIdEdit}; # line 238 of docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.2.3-7.3.0.pl 01:18 <+perlDreamer> now it will be guaranteed to let us know it changes. 01:18 <+perlDreamer> I'll commit the fix and try to run an upgrade. 01:18 <@preaction> so it succeeds when there ISNT right? because i think i use the empty style on a bunch of ajax stuff that returns JSON 01:19 <+perlDreamer> unlike($styled, qr{(?i)}, 'useEmptyStyle does not have html, head or body tags'); 01:19 <@preaction> word 01:19 <+perlDreamer> it's a pretty simplistic check, but it gets the idea across 01:20 <@preaction> i did a lot of that sort of checking with the output of getPage 01:20 <@preaction> though i do think in the future we should make a nice getPageAsHTMLTokeParser (or something similar) that returns a proper HTML parsing object 01:21 <+perlDreamer> I noticed that you used the same IO tied variable thing that I did. It doesn't work before perl 5.8, though 01:21 <@preaction> nope 01:21 <@preaction> but webgui requires 5.8 01:21 <@preaction> before 5.8 you can use the IO::String (i think, or IO::Scalar, one or the other) 01:21 <+perlDreamer> where does it say that we require 5.8? That's new to me. 01:22 <+perlDreamer> I like it, but I was working under the assumption people would still use earlier perl's 01:22 <@preaction> http://www.plainblack.com/installing_webgui <- maybe testEnvironment.pl should "require v5.8.8" 01:24 <+perlDreamer> your 1-line fix, is that modifying an existing line or adding a line? 01:24 <@preaction> adding a line 01:24 <@preaction> should be right under a couple other $properties changes 01:25 <@preaction> er, crap 01:25 <@preaction> no, wait, that'll work 01:25 <+perlDreamer> I'll download and install a 7.2 and then try an upgrade. 01:26 <+perlDreamer> I think it will work,too, but I've been bitten too many times recently to not test anymore. 01:26 <@preaction> true nuff 01:42 <+perlDreamer> dude, you did the world a service by rewriting the calendar 01:50 <+perlDreamer> um, preaction, will it upgrade calendar with no events? 02:06 <@preaction> it should 02:11 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 02:17 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 02:18 < pjesi> damn head.block 02:18 < pjesi> !!! 02:20 <+perlDreamer> pjesi, if you can build a test for it that shows it's a bug, I'll fix it 02:21 < pjesi> perlDreamer: it is so nondeterministic 02:21 < pjesi> I cant figure it out 02:22 <+perlDreamer> so it's working sometimes, in some cases, but not in others? 02:23 < pjesi> yes 02:24 < pjesi> last time it didnt show at all, yesterday it was twice within , today it was once in and once in , later it was correctly only in , now it is only in body 02:25 <@preaction> same asset? which asset type? a page layout (if so, what assets does it contain?) 02:26 < pjesi> Layout.pm 02:26 < pjesi> it contains a whole site 02:27 < pjesi> sorry, it is the head block of the Layout template 02:27 <@preaction> i'm just saying, there are a lot of ways to put head tags up there, and there's one correct way. some of the assets in the Layout might be putting things up there in the wrong way 02:28 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I think he's saying he has a headblock for the layout template, and that info (not any child info) is showing up all over the place, twice or not at all 02:29 <@preaction> so in the Extra Head Tags part of the layout template, which should be put in the area that's handled by the style template? 02:30 < pjesi> sometimes the child info is displayed as well (rss link for example) 02:30 < pjesi> yes is in the Style 02:31 < pjesi> it sometimes prints them there 02:31 < pjesi> sometimes above the normal block 02:32 < pjesi> anyways, I managed to push Hinrik into fixing this 02:41 < pjesi> above normal block is at the top of 02:44 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I figured out what was going on with the upgrade. I short-circuited it and it broke the upgrade process quietly. 02:47 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit [""""] 03:01 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 03:10 < pjesi> it does look like it is injected in head.tags if I am not loged in 03:22 < SDuensin> WHOO HOO! My photo gallery is (mostly) working! 03:36 -!- streamlines [n=streamli@wsip-68-110-129-224.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #webgui 03:39 < SDuensin> Anybody awake? I may be on the verge of a wiki article here. 03:43 < streamlines> I'm here, but likely to be of much use to you. 03:44 < SDuensin> Never know. I just need the name of a template variable. Can't seem to find it... 03:44 < SDuensin> I uploaded a file and changed the menu title field. When I use file.menuTitle, it's blank... 03:44 < SDuensin> If I use menuTitle by itself, I get the title of the folder the file is in. 03:45 < SDuensin> I want to get the menuTitle of the file from inside a template for the parent folder. (This is for a photo gallery.) 03:45 < SDuensin> Make sense? 03:45 < streamlines> Sorry, SDuensin, I'm just getting into WG, still readning literature and figuring stuff out. WQish I could be more helpful. 03:45 < SDuensin> Me too. :-) 03:46 < SDuensin> WebGUI rocks. It's just big. Takes awhile to find everything. 03:46 < streamlines> yup. I'm a tech, and knowenough perl, but yeah, WebGUI is BIG/ 03:47 < SDuensin> "Enough Perl" == "Live Bomb" :-) 03:48 < streamlines> that's exactly right. enuff to cause MAJOR issues. just another hacker. 03:48 < streamlines> how long you been using WG? 03:49 < SDuensin> I'm getting back into it. I used the 5.x series for a lot of sites. Had issues with 6.x and my server. Now I'm back. :-D 03:49 < streamlines> wow. where'd you go? 03:49 < SDuensin> Let me tell you... 7.x is a LOT different from 5.x. Very impressive. 03:50 < streamlines> so you coming back from PHPland? 03:50 <@preaction> SDuensin: it's possible the Image asset doesn't have a menuTitle for some reason. you might want to also try title 03:50 < SDuensin> I've run a lot of other content systems since then. Never happy with any of them. 03:50 < SDuensin> preaction - Isn't file.title the filename? 03:50 < streamlines> any perl-based? 03:50 <@preaction> durned if i know, haven't been inside the Image asset yet 03:51 < SDuensin> No, streamlines. Perl was the problem. My host didn't have hardly any modules installed and my personal server didn't have the bandwidth I needed. 03:51 < SDuensin> preaction - Let me commit my version and show you what I have. I think you'll like it. 03:51 <@preaction> Perl is too awesome for its own good 03:51 < SDuensin> preaction (and streamlines) - take a peek: http://new.duensing.com:2080/home/gallery/rylee/snow 03:51 < streamlines> ahhh....so did you eventuall change hosts? I wonder how many others have that issue a a block to using WG? 03:52 < SDuensin> New host, and more bandwidth on my personal connection. I can run from either of them now. 03:53 <@preaction> the little loading bar thingy doesn't like me :( 03:53 < SDuensin> ? 03:53 <@preaction> i click an image, and the loading bar shows up, but the image doesn't seem to load 03:54 < SDuensin> What browser? 03:54 < streamlines> I've gotta hop a firewall to get to see port 2080 too. That may be why. 03:54 <@preaction> Firefox 2.0.0.1 Intel Mac 03:54 < streamlines> that's why I still dont see anything :-). I'll fix mine. 03:54 < SDuensin> Well, hell, that's what I have. :-) 03:54 < SDuensin> Do you see the coat-of-arms above the menu? (Coat-of-arms == shield thing.) 03:55 <@preaction> i see the coat of arms, but no menu 03:55 < SDuensin> !!!! 03:55 <@preaction> i'm also a Visitor 03:55 < SDuensin> Weiiiiirrd. 03:55 <@preaction> that might be the problem 03:55 < SDuensin> Crap. Menu fixed. 03:56 < SDuensin> For some bizarre reason, it was set to "Ad Managers". 03:56 <@preaction> that happens when it's not set 03:57 < SDuensin> I bet I got a lot more screwed up then. 03:57 <@preaction> oh: to make the rows have a uniform height: surround them in a div that has a height of the maximum height of your thumbnails 03:58 < SDuensin> Yea. Any way to pull that from a variable? 03:58 <@preaction> the clicking works, it just took longer than i anticipated 03:59 <@preaction> umm.... not that i'm aware of 03:59 < SDuensin> Maybe my pipe is clogged. Dang users! 03:59 <@preaction> someone's clogging the intertubes? 03:59 < streamlines> hmm...same problem on my end. Image 10 of 16 works though. odd. I 03:59 < streamlines> noticed some did and some didn't (some == atleast one). c 04:00 * SDuensin blames his LAN. 04:00 < streamlines> clicked around more and no others workd. 04:00 < SDuensin> Only 10 worked? 04:00 < streamlines> didn't click all thumbs thoh. 04:00 < SDuensin> Nothing different about 10. 04:00 <@preaction> i got number 9 04:01 < streamlines> number 10 of 16. popped up the thingy where you can click next to nav to others. 04:01 < streamlines> Ah. so maybe his pipe really is clogged. 04:01 < streamlines> bu nav to tohers from the thingy (next / prev) didnt work either. 04:01 < SDuensin> Dunno. 04:02 < SDuensin> Sounds like clogged pipes. 04:02 <@preaction> i assume tey work, just slowly 04:02 <@preaction> is the thumbnail size a site setting? 04:02 <@preaction> imma try to make a patch 04:02 < SDuensin> For that test gallery, I didn't size those images at all. They're around 2 megapixel and the script scales 'em. 04:02 < SDuensin> I think it's a site setting. 04:03 < SDuensin> Yes. Admin->Settings->Content 04:04 <@preaction> but it can, unfortunately, be overridden per image 04:04 < SDuensin> Yea. I know. 04:04 < streamlines> you trust a script to resize on the fly? what processor---oh yseah, macintel. nevermind 04:05 < SDuensin> I don't trust it. I just know it does it. When this site goes live, I'll scale them myself. 04:05 <@preaction> it's probably just setting a width/height in the CSS 04:05 < SDuensin> That's my guess, preaction. 04:05 < streamlines> ah.. .sorr. maybe some loop in the resize script? preaction got 9 and I got 10 ok? still having trouble loading any others. 04:06 <@preaction> they just take 30 seconds about 04:06 < streamlines> preaction, you getting em all now? 04:06 <@preaction> i'm up to 11 04:06 <@preaction> 12... 04:07 < streamlines> oohhh. sorry. I need to keep quiet. and look at my other monotors every now and again. sorry again. Loading fine as you said. 04:08 < SDuensin> hehehe 04:08 < streamlines> (slink, slink). lurk lurk. 04:09 < streamlines> I'll just go read my BRAND NEW wegui primer book. Amazing how much isn't obvious. 04:09 < SDuensin> Looks like a variable won't help anyway. You can't add in a template thingie, so there's no way to include the margin. 04:09 < SDuensin> I didn't buy the primer. Got the subscription to the docs. 04:10 < streamlines> yeah, got that too. we should wiki article.... 04:11 < SDuensin> I want to wiki this gallery after I get it sorted out. 04:11 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@68.51.234.189] has joined #webgui 04:11 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 04:13 < streamlines> I haven't had time to get the BIG picture from the subscription. All is still a bit fuzzy to me. BEst thing in to dive in and test and hack. 04:13 < streamlines> Then feel fuzzy enough to share via wiki. 04:18 < SDuensin> Whoa. I have a template I can't edit. Every time I click "Edit" it acts like I did "View". 04:24 < SDuensin> Grrr. Tried all I can think of. Restarting WebGUI now. Hope that fixes it! 04:25 -!- [1]NetForged_Nea [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 04:28 < SDuensin> That fixed it. Weird. 04:33 < SDuensin> Ok, just need to find that template variable for the menuTitle. 04:40 < SDuensin> Anybody? Anybody? Buelher? 04:42 -!- [2]NetForged_Nea [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 04:42 -!- NetForged_Neal [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:42 -!- [2]NetForged_Nea is now known as NetForged_Neal 04:48 -!- streamlines [n=streamli@wsip-68-110-129-224.ga.at.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:58 <@preaction> SDuensin: i think menuTitle is a Wobject property, and Image is only an Asset 04:58 < SDuensin> That hurts my head. 04:58 < SDuensin> Why does it have a field for it then? 04:59 <@preaction> nm, menuTitle is in Asset 04:59 <@preaction> perhaps it's getting clobbered somehow? 04:59 -!- [1]NetForged_Nea [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:01 < SDuensin> I have no idea. It's inside a loop. 05:37 < Radix-wrk> So were PedersenMJ and my entries the only ones for the wcc - haven't seen any additions to the wiki at all :( 05:38 < SDuensin> I didn't have time to write my photo gallery entry. :-( 05:40 <@preaction> Radix-wrk: there's still 2 hours 20 minutes in the month of February ;) 05:41 < Radix-wrk> Depends what time zone you're in I guess - but even still I'd have expected people to have added something by now 05:41 <@preaction> yeah, i'm thinking no 05:42 < Radix-wrk> Just a bit sad that there was only two of us who contributed. :( 05:42 <@preaction> steve just tapped me for some perl code to add to the design for http://webgui.org, so hopefully after the split we have less people saying that WebGUI is Plain Black 05:43 < Radix-wrk> cool 05:43 <@preaction> plus as evidenced in the IRC channel, the community is re-growing 05:43 < Radix-wrk> yup.. was only two others in here when I started! :) 05:43 < Radix-wrk> and neither of them said anything! 05:44 <@preaction> yeah, back in the good ol' days 05:44 < Radix-wrk> hehe 05:44 <@preaction> well, maybe not so good 05:45 < SDuensin> I still want to write my wiki entry. Just need to figure a few more things out. 05:45 < SDuensin> Unfortunately, it's not going to happen in two hours and 15 minutes. 05:45 <@preaction> eh, i imagine it ends when Roy reads his mail in the morning, so go ahead and submit, and maybe you'll be grandfathered in 05:46 < Radix-wrk> this with the photo gallery template that rizen gave you the other day? or something new since then? 05:46 < SDuensin> I can't finish it tonight. :-/ 05:46 < SDuensin> It's built off what he gave me. 05:46 -!- patspam [n=notgiven@203-214-44-39.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #webgui 05:46 < SDuensin> http://new.duensing.com:2080/home/gallery/rylee/snow 05:46 < SDuensin> My connection seems to be slow tonight, and the images need resized. Give it time when you click on one. 05:46 <@preaction> and unfortunately, i just learned my frypan needs to warm up far more in order to cook proper stirfry 05:47 <@preaction> i blame the fact that i haven't cooked chinese in a while 05:47 < Radix-wrk> electric wok ftw! 05:48 < SDuensin> Like that gallery? 05:48 < Radix-wrk> I have a very nice, deep electric wok (2400w) that is great for instant stirfry.. heats up REAL quick and perfect for all sorts.. tis cool 05:49 <@preaction> something i might need to look into 05:49 < Radix-wrk> my stove sucks, so I tend to use the wok for all sorts of stuff.. pasta, curries, etc 05:50 < Radix-wrk> SDuensin, neat! 05:50 < Radix-wrk> Did you check out that SlideShowPro link I posted the other day? 05:50 < Radix-wrk> Kinda similar in some ways except that one is all flash. 05:50 < SDuensin> Yea. Looked cool. Didn't look free though. (I've been on a hell of an OSS kick lately.) 05:51 < Radix-wrk> nah.. definitely not free 05:51 < SDuensin> It did look good though! 05:51 < Radix-wrk> and yeah, this one looks awesome if it's free 05:51 < SDuensin> This is really easy. Just toss images into a folder asset and assign the gallery template. 05:52 < SDuensin> It's even smart enough to work out multiple galleries on one page and set up the paging for them. 05:52 < SDuensin> I just wish I knew how to get to the menuTitle field of the image assets! 05:52 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. you know what would really rock.. a webgui object that interfaces/links to a flickr set or something as they do have a full api I'm pretty sure 05:53 < SDuensin> That wouldn't be too hard, I wouldn't think. 05:53 < SDuensin> I'm not much for hosting my content elsewhere. That's why I was looking to do it all with WebGUI. 05:57 < SDuensin> Anyway, I'll ask more weird template questions tomorrow when more people are here. 05:57 < SDuensin> Night! 05:58 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, it's hard for us aussies tho.. upload bandwidth is so limited here (1mbit max prettymuch without forking out a fortune) and it's slow for the rest of the world to boot. We can get away with hosting the images ourselves (providing they're not large ones) off our 1mbit uplink - but everything else, larger files, movies, downloads, pdfs, etc all have to go on external hosting for us or our net link is cactus 06:17 < patspam> what's the proper way to update groupIdView on an asset through the API? 06:17 <@preaction> $asset->update({ groupIdView => "newValue" }); 06:17 <@preaction> unless you want to make a new revision 06:18 < patspam> ah great, thanks 08:35 -!- patspam [n=notgiven@203-214-44-39.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 08:41 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@68.51.234.189] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:42 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:52 < Hinrik> http://paste2.org/p/1605 10:52 < Hinrik> how do I fix this? 10:52 < Hinrik> /data is a symlink to /usr/local/data btw... 10:53 < Hinrik> most non-ascii characters come out wrong 10:53 < Hinrik> this is all supposed to be set to utf8 10:54 < Hinrik> it looks right if I start the client with --default-character-set=utf8, but that should be the default... 11:04 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 11:05 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit [Client Quit] 11:05 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 14:03 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit ["leaving"] 14:11 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:21 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 14:29 -!- [1]NetForged_Nea [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 14:29 -!- NetForged_Neal [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:29 -!- [1]NetForged_Nea is now known as NetForged_Neal 15:58 -!- pjesi_ [i=pjesi@klefi01.litlahraun.is] has joined #webgui 15:58 < pjesi_> hi guys 15:59 < pjesi_> I was asked to add a discussion board to the site but it doesnt show any controls 15:59 < pjesi_> so I tried the CS 16:00 < pjesi_> it doesnt generate any html 16:00 < pjesi_> any ideas? 16:01 -!- [1]NetForged_Nea [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 16:04 -!- wgGuest97 [n=wgGuest9@zen.ecocoms.com] has joined #webgui 16:04 -!- wgGuest97 is now known as todor_k 16:17 -!- NetForged_Neal [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:17 -!- [1]NetForged_Nea is now known as NetForged_Neal 16:20 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 16:20 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 16:55 -!- mediak [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:12 <@snapcount> woo hoo... vpn time 17:12 <@snapcount> back later 17:17 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 17:17 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 17:23 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit ["leaving"] 17:31 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:49 < ckotil> How could i programmatically migrate Faq-o-matic entries to webgui , without writing a custom import script? 18:49 <@rizen> you realize that what you just stated is an oxymoron right? 18:49 <@rizen> how can i program without programming? 18:50 * ckotil sighs 18:50 < ckotil> yes. 18:50 <@rizen> i have one way you could do it 18:50 < ckotil> im all ears. 18:50 <@rizen> you could have someone else do the programming for you 18:50 <@rizen> that way *you* didn't do any programming 18:51 < ckotil> thats a technicality 18:51 <@rizen> it's my only suggestiong 18:51 <@rizen> minus the g 18:51 < ckotil> k. 18:51 <@rizen> does SQL count as programming? 18:51 < ckotil> yes. 18:51 <@rizen> k 18:51 <@rizen> no suggestions then 18:52 < ckotil> i might try to write something to crawl the FOM grab the text and create webgui assets 18:52 < ckotil> id rather not do this by hand. (enter all the FOM entries into wG) 18:53 <@rizen> that counts as programming 18:54 < ckotil> indeed it does. i was just asking if there were a way to do it wihtout programming 18:54 < ckotil> or if a script already existed 18:55 < ckotil> crythias uses FOM for his webgui faq 18:55 < ckotil> and theres a question. why not use webgui for the faq. 18:55 < ckotil> to which there is not a good answer. 18:55 <@rizen> he has an answer for that in his faq 18:55 < ckotil> oh, i should reread it then. 18:55 <+MrHairgrease> his provider doesn't allow webgui 18:55 < ckotil> my group just decided to give up the FOM to use webgui 18:55 < ckotil> oh :x hehe 18:56 <@rizen> that isn't the only reason 18:56 <@rizen> nor is it the reason he gives in his faq 18:56 < ckotil> so i setup the file/knowledge repository structure in webgui. 18:56 <+MrHairgrease> let me read the faq then 18:56 <@rizen> in the faq he says something like: i didn't expect to stay with webgui very long 18:56 < ckotil> i use shortcut assets in a few places for redundancy. it has come together quiet nicely, and is starting to fill up with content 18:56 < ckotil> ah. 18:57 < ckotil> navigation assets 0wn me. they are a life saver 18:59 <@rizen> nice to hear, many people say they are the bane of their existience 19:01 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:02 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 19:02 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 19:09 < ckotil> at first they were. 19:09 < ckotil> now i make them my bitch 19:52 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 19:52 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 20:01 -!- pjesi_ [i=pjesi@klefi01.litlahraun.is] has quit ["leaving"] 20:09 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: For your FAQ-o-matic, you could HttpProxy it in, but that's a workaround 20:11 <+perlDreamer> preaction: re SDuensin's folder problems, the Folder only gives you a limited set of child Asset properties. 20:11 <+perlDreamer> It's a bummer 20:11 <@preaction> is it an RFE? i'll pump in some karma 20:12 <+perlDreamer> menuTitle is not in the list 20:12 <+perlDreamer> It would be like a 10 second hack. 20:12 <@preaction> it's easier to get the full gamut than it is to restrict :p 20:12 <+perlDreamer> well, yes and no 20:12 <+perlDreamer> $asset->get vs $asset->getTemplateVars is a whole world of difference 20:13 <@preaction> $asset->get gets menuTitle 20:14 <+perlDreamer> yes, plus it gets every base Asset property, every base Wobject property and every specific Asset/Wobject property. 20:14 <+perlDreamer> We couldn't document that in the generic way that it is now. 20:14 <@preaction> wait, there is a base WebGUI::Asset::getTemplateVars? 20:14 <+perlDreamer> no 20:14 <@preaction> ok 20:15 <+perlDreamer> yes, kind of 20:15 <+perlDreamer> every template in the end does $asset->get and appends it to the template vars passed in. 20:15 <+perlDreamer> (top-level asset template, not child level template vars) 20:16 <+perlDreamer> If every asset had a getTemplateVars, like the oh-so well designed Event and Calendar, it would make sub-classing them possible. 20:16 <+perlDreamer> and testing them easier 20:16 <+perlDreamer> and adding tertiary interfaces possible (think SOAP/WSDL, etc.) 20:16 <@preaction> true enough 20:17 <+perlDreamer> I guess what I'm saying is that we could file a bug report for the missing menuTitle and get it in now, and then talk with the big guy about larger interfaces in 7.4 20:19 <@preaction> using getTemplateVars as the way to get the base template vars of the asset that are general to every www_ method in the asset 20:19 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I need a bug consult. I fixed half of a bug but need to know how to correct things that the bug has already broken. 20:23 <+perlDreamer> preaction:are you saying every www_ method in Asset, or just in Event and Calendar? 20:25 <@preaction> i don't know. it fits for Event because of the processing involved with the dates, but for something like a Folder, $asset->get works fine 20:25 <@preaction> of course, WebGUI::Asset::getTemplateVars could just return $self->get; and let the child classes add to that 20:26 <+perlDreamer> ah, I alluded to that earlier 20:26 <+perlDreamer> ->get and -getTemplateVariables are worlds apart 20:26 <@preaction> that's what i was thinkng you were getting at 20:26 <+perlDreamer> yeah 20:26 <+perlDreamer> ->get would meet 90% of most people's needs 20:26 <+perlDreamer> but also contains yards of Asset cruft 20:27 <+perlDreamer> assetIds, templateIds, groupIds, etc. 20:27 <+perlDreamer> users will want asset names, template names and group names 20:27 <+perlDreamer> that requires getTemplateVars 20:40 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 20:47 < ckotil> pd: ive deleted every http proxy asset on my site 20:47 < ckotil> it was causing apache to blow up. spiked the cpu and filled up the memory and swap 20:47 < ckotil> web crawlers were pulling down our rrd files 20:47 < ckotil> remember, the funky characters hitting my logs. 20:48 < ckotil> id like to go back to using http proxy asset bc its really nice to get that content inline with the rest of my site 20:56 < ckotil> What's this import script xtopher is using? 20:56 < ckotil> importing content from static sites. i might be able to use that for my FOM entries 21:07 <@rizen> pd, i'm back 21:08 <@rizen> i guess i should say perlDreamer so that it actually makes a sound for you 21:19 <+perlDreamer> I'm here 21:19 <+perlDreamer> You remember the file upload bug from 2-3 days ago? 21:19 <@rizen> i'm not 21:19 <+perlDreamer> oh 21:19 <@rizen> just kidding 21:20 <@rizen> yes 21:20 <+perlDreamer> the bug is fixed, but now people have images with no thumbnails 21:20 <+perlDreamer> should we script a solution for that? 21:20 <@rizen> there's already one 21:20 <@rizen> thumbnailer.pl comes with webgui 21:21 <@rizen> although, you could add a --flag to it 21:21 <@rizen> to only generate thumbs for images that don't have them 21:22 <+perlDreamer> the only side effect I see to that is ZipArchives may upload images, and they'd get thumbnails created in there, but that's not bad 21:22 <+perlDreamer> I'll post that as the response to the bug and add it to the gotchas 21:23 <@rizen> yeah, they'd get them, but it shouldn't affect them 21:23 <@rizen> so i think we're good 21:23 <+perlDreamer> thanks 21:23 <+perlDreamer> is there a general threshold/metric for deciding when to create scripts to fix stuff like this versus not? 21:23 <@rizen> did i do something deserving thanks? 21:23 <+perlDreamer> yes 21:24 <+perlDreamer> you decided whether this should have more work done on it 21:24 <@rizen> generally speaking we should try to fix stuff directly in the upgrade when possible and practical 21:24 <@rizen> in this case, adding the thumbnailer to the upgrade is possible but not practical 21:24 <@rizen> because it will slow down the upgrade considerably 21:25 <@rizen> and my guess is that most people don't care about the thumbnails or we would have had a lot more people raising a big stink about it 21:31 <+perlDreamer> The thumbnailer script doesn't use Getopts for command line arguments. Can I convert it to add the flag? 21:35 < ckotil> http://www.plainblack.com/uploads/3C/X7/3CX7ekuCh7O6SuhqPNj-gQ/IIPImportSites_poland_pl.txt @ $myfolder , im confused at the difference in templateId and styleTemplateId 21:35 < ckotil> at $myfolder , im confused at the difference in templateId and styleTemplateId 21:36 <+perlDreamer> templateId is whatever local/asset specific template the asset uses to display itself. The view method. 21:37 <+perlDreamer> styleTemplate is there so that when you visit an Asset directly (via its url), it gets the style template for the site. 21:37 <+perlDreamer> does that help? 21:37 < ckotil> ya , got it. thanks pd 21:40 <@rizen> pd: yes 21:40 <@rizen> that's one of the very first utility scripts i ever wrote for webgui 21:41 <@rizen> so i'm sure it could use some TLC 21:41 <@rizen> gotta reboot..brb 21:41 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 21:44 < ckotil> pd im still confused actually... 21:44 < ckotil> im inside.. 21:44 < ckotil> my $page = $parent->addChild({ 21:44 < ckotil> className=>'WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Layout', 21:45 < ckotil> and i see 21:45 < ckotil> templateId=>"ahG2dUzE0GrK2kHWt6Qxdw", 21:45 < ckotil> styleTemplateId=>$templateID, 21:45 < ckotil> why would styleTemplateId match templateId 21:45 < ckotil> shouldnt styleTemplateId be the sites style? 21:46 < ckotil> im about to just go through with it on my dev box,a nd see what happens. ive already got a backup ready 21:47 < ckotil> oh. nvm 21:47 < ckotil> templateId must be different from $templateId 21:48 <+perlDreamer> bad variable naming convention 21:48 <+perlDreamer> it probably should have been called $styleTemplateId instead of $templateId 21:48 <+perlDreamer> One way to check it is to go find the template associated with that Id and check it's template namespace 21:49 < ckotil> ya i didnt that for article, and it checked out pbltmpl0000002. 21:51 <+perlDreamer> huh? 21:52 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 21:52 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 21:54 < ckotil> i dunno 21:54 < ckotil> here goes nothing. 21:54 * ckotil crosses his fingers 21:55 <@rizen> cut the blue wire!!! 21:56 * perlDreamer points out that rizen is color blind 22:01 <+perlDreamer> Alas, poor ckotil. We knew him well 22:06 <@rizen> he must have died 22:06 <@rizen> not a single reply in over 10 minutes 22:08 <+perlDreamer> You sure about that blue wire? 22:12 <@rizen> hmmm...i could have been mistaken 22:12 <@rizen> it might have been the green wire 22:16 < ckotil> im just frustrated 22:17 < ckotil> im getting 'cannot open config file: at ....../WebGUI/Config.pm line 350, line 225 22:18 <+perlDreamer> the scripts usually accept a bare config file name, without path 22:18 <+perlDreamer> also check read access 22:18 < ckotil> im running as root. 22:18 < ckotil> at first i got this error... 22:18 <@rizen> and make sure you're spelling crap right 22:19 < ckotil> Couldn't parse JSON in config file '' 22:19 <@rizen> i'm a terrible typist so i always mistype 22:19 < ckotil> then i edited where it looks for the coonfig. 22:19 < ckotil> this is how it originially was. my $session = WebGUI::Session->open("../",$configFile); 22:19 < ckotil> i made it my $session = WebGUI::Session->open("../etc/",$configFile); 22:19 < ckotil> running from inside sbin 22:20 < ckotil> then i get the Config.pm error 22:20 <+perlDreamer> Session->open wants a WebGUI root directory 22:20 < ckotil> ok , so it was fine to begin with. 22:20 <+perlDreamer> I'd say the original error is true and you have bad JSON. 22:21 < ckotil> k 22:21 < ckotil> hrm, ive had this config since 6.99 22:28 <+perlDreamer> recently modified? 22:28 < ckotil> i think one my admins hacked it up a while back 22:29 < ckotil> im editing WebGUI.original.conf 22:30 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 22:30 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 22:37 < ckotil> still couldnt parse JSON in config 22:41 <@snapcount> good lord, somehow I managed to burn this TV dinner 22:41 <@snapcount> still not too bad though... 22:46 < ckotil> hrm. my config has to be JSON 22:46 < ckotil> this script still isnt working for me. any ideas? 22:53 < ckotil> new plan of action 22:54 < ckotil> after realizing this script will not be the end all solution to my problem. i.e grab all the entries of the FOM and represent them as layouts and articles. i will instead use the fileImport script 22:54 < ckotil> and then deal with organizing hte mess of html files 22:54 < ckotil> as file assets. for now 22:57 <@preaction> snapcount: SYN? 22:57 <@snapcount> ack 23:09 < ckotil> yuck what a mess that is 23:10 -!- Vrby [n=Vrby@d11-153.rb2.lax.centurytel.net] has joined #webgui 23:11 -!- Vrby [n=Vrby@d11-153.rb2.lax.centurytel.net] has left #webgui [] 23:20 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 23:22 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:30 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: how about setting up a CS-based FAQ-o-matic? 23:31 <+perlDreamer> but that takes you back to the JSON stuff 23:32 <@preaction> i'm thinking that the error you're getting should have a filename in those '', otherwise i'm thinking that it's not getting the configuration filename 23:37 < ckotil> a CS-based FOM would be ideal. i think my group would go for that. 23:37 < ckotil> yah, he '' is suspect 23:37 < ckotil> s/he/the 23:38 <@preaction> Session->open($WEBGUI_ROOT, $PATH_TO_CONFIG); # $PATH_TO_CONFIG should include 'etc/' iirc. otherwise WebGUI::Session->open should probably include some more debug code for when it fatals like that 23:39 <@preaction> cannot parse JSON why? you know 23:39 < ckotil> beats me. 23:39 < ckotil> my conf is JSON. has to be. 23:39 <@preaction> check $! or $@ as appropriate 23:39 < ckotil> i even recreated it based on WebGUI.original.conf 23:40 <+perlDreamer> you don't need the ./etc 23:40 * ckotil nods 23:40 < ckotil> i removed it. 23:40 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI::Config adds is automatically 23:40 <+perlDreamer> that didn't help? 23:41 < ckotil> nope. 23:41 < ckotil> in the mean time i ran importFile.pl 23:41 < ckotil> that ran off just fine 23:45 <+perlDreamer> if you like, you can paste that part of your script for us to look at 23:47 < xdanger> my webgui installation isn't sending emails anymore... where should I start to look? 23:47 <+perlDreamer> spectre 23:47 < xdanger> it's running 23:47 <@preaction> mysql mailQueue table 23:47 < xdanger> smtp server is working 23:47 <@rizen> if you're running 7.3.10 or abovve 23:47 <@rizen> do 23:47 <@rizen> perl spectre.pl --status 23:48 <@rizen> and see if there's some stuff gummed up 23:48 <+perlDreamer> preaction: off the top of your head, do you remember the PBP for constructing booleans out of complex conditionals? 23:48 <@preaction> perlDreamer: nope 23:48 <+perlDreamer> k, thanks 23:48 < xdanger> rizen: I'm running 7.3.8 23:49 <@rizen> then do what perlDreamer suggested and look at what's in your mailQueue table 23:50 < ckotil> ill take it to the forums. 23:51 < ckotil> thanks guys 23:51 < xdanger> There's 8 mails, in the queue table... 23:52 <@rizen> and restarting spectre doesn't clear them out? 23:54 < xdanger> nope 23:55 <@rizen> then either you have some other workflow gumming up the works 23:55 <@rizen> check the running workflows screen in webgui 23:55 <@rizen> or your mail server isn't taking the mails 23:55 < xdanger> I was running spectre on --debug --run in screen... restarted that 23:55 <@rizen> check the webgui.log 23:55 < xdanger> nothing in the log 23:55 <@rizen> that's the amount of support i'm willing to give you 23:56 <+perlDreamer> rizen, that would make a great wiki article 23:56 < xdanger> There are 3-4 screens of Hourly Maintenance Tasks in showRunningWorkflows 23:56 <+perlDreamer> and would save you from asking all those questions every time to every spectre question 23:57 <@rizen> good luck with that pd 23:57 <@rizen> i don't write wiki articles 23:57 <@rizen> i write books that are for sale 23:57 <@rizen> and i have over 20 pages of troubleshooting material in that book i'm writing just on spectre --- Day changed Fri Mar 02 2007 00:02 <+perlDreamer> roger that, rizen. Maybe I'll just copy and paste the most basic stuff from the IRC logs and then teach gooeybot a new trick. 00:03 <@preaction> step 1? 00:03 < gooeybot> step 1 is Check the error logs, both WebGUI and Apache. 00:05 < xdanger> spectre debug prints something like this: WORKFLOW: Was told to wait on PihhW8apdQ7RQeke0sTwHg because we're still waiting on some external event. 00:05 < xdanger> all the time 00:06 <+perlDreamer> preaction: can a mysql select statement be constructed to do the setting of groupIdEditEvent to groupIdEdit? It would require joining the tables and doing a revision subselect? 00:06 <@rizen> have you noticed that the irc channel has pretty much killed the dev mailing list? 00:07 <+perlDreamer> devs are impatient? 00:07 <@preaction> perlDreamer: update Calendar set groupIdEditEvent=(select groupIdEdit from assetData where assetData.assetId=Calendar.assetId); # maybe? 00:07 <@preaction> oh, forgot the revision subselect as well 00:08 <@preaction> might just be easier to update the current revision using API though 00:08 <+perlDreamer> yeah 00:08 <@preaction> rizen: i was thinking about mentioning something on the dev list about it, IRC is easier 00:09 <@preaction> and surprisingly it's populated almost 24/7, thanks to our aussie and euro cohorts 00:09 <@rizen> yeah, but it's also realtime 00:09 <@preaction> if someone's active ;) 00:09 <@rizen> which is a gift and a curse 00:11 <+perlDreamer> what's the curse part? 00:11 <+perlDreamer> not being able to queue up and respond to stuff? 00:12 <@rizen> the curse part is you have to be here to participate 00:12 <@rizen> technically you could read the logs...but unless you're dedicated you won't do that 00:13 <@rizen> the dev mailing list is organized by threads 00:13 <@rizen> and it's not real time 00:13 <@rizen> so you can participate in the discussion on your own time 00:13 <@rizen> and only follow the threads that are interesting to you 00:13 <@rizen> if you're not here and you read the logs 00:13 <@rizen> and then respond 2 days later 00:13 <@rizen> nobody will know what you're talking about 00:14 < xdanger> WORKFLOW: Total workflows waiting to run: 720 00:14 <@rizen> on the dev mailing list...everyone knows 00:14 < xdanger> The number isn't going down.. 00:14 <@rizen> there's your problem xdanger...you have a clog 00:14 <@rizen> if you upgrade to 7.3.10+, the ones that can run will 00:14 <@rizen> and the others will be left 00:14 <@rizen> thusly explaining where your clog is 00:14 < xdanger> ok 00:14 < xdanger> great 00:15 < xdanger> Don't have the time to upgrade right now, but will do that tommorrow... 00:15 <@rizen> that's the beauty of the new queuing system in 7.3.10...it can't get clogged 00:15 <+perlDreamer> you can call it DRAINO 00:15 < xdanger> that good =) 00:15 <@rizen> you can have stuff that doesn't work...but everything else continues working 00:15 <@rizen> and you can then just fix the problem children 00:16 <@rizen> pd: why didn't you come up with that when we were talking about it before? 00:16 <@rizen> i could have named it DRAINO 00:16 <@rizen> heeh 00:17 <+perlDreamer> Dynamic Reallocation of Asynchronous INternet Objects 00:17 <@rizen> nope 00:18 <+perlDreamer> time to test thumbnailer 2.0 00:18 <@rizen> that doesn't make any sense 00:18 <@rizen> ooooooh 00:18 <@rizen> thumbnailer 2.0 00:18 <@rizen> that's my favorite 00:18 <@rizen> did you upgrade it to use File::Find 00:18 <@rizen> cuz i should have done that long ago 00:18 <+perlDreamer> yes 00:18 <+perlDreamer> want a preview? 00:18 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot pastebin? 00:18 < gooeybot> pastebin is http://pastebin.ca 00:18 <@rizen> just check it in 00:19 <@rizen> then i'll have a preview 00:19 <+perlDreamer> it's in 00:19 <+perlDreamer> and untested 00:20 <+perlDreamer> 00:20 <@preaction> Dynamic Running of Asychronous INdependant Outcomes 00:20 <@preaction> we need an acrobot in here 00:23 <+perlDreamer> what do you know? the thing worked the first time! 00:23 <+perlDreamer> 00:25 <@rizen> looks good 00:25 <@rizen> ooh 00:25 <@rizen> nevermind 00:25 <@rizen> it's crap 00:25 <@rizen> it doesn't have the standard --help option 00:25 <@rizen> that all other utils do 00:26 <+perlDreamer> --help it is 00:35 <+perlDreamer> -2 bugs 00:46 <+perlDreamer> Is the clipboard now shared by default? 00:52 <@rizen> shared? 00:52 <@rizen> you mean between users? 00:53 <+perlDreamer> yes 00:53 <@rizen> no 00:53 <@rizen> each user has their own clipboard 00:54 <+perlDreamer> I'm looking at susanb's clipboard bug. She cut something from a page and then deleted the page. Since the parentId points to the page, the clipboard item got deleted, too. 00:54 <+perlDreamer> Is that fixable? 00:54 <+perlDreamer> We'd need some "safe" clipboard parent/folder thingy 00:55 <@rizen> that's not fixable 00:55 <@rizen> it's a side effect of the way clipboard is done these days 00:55 <@rizen> the old way was that we moved it to a "clipboard" node 00:56 <@rizen> but in that way, it was impossible to truely "restore" it back to where it was 00:56 <@rizen> so with the asset tree, it's left in place and just marked as clipped 00:56 <@rizen> but that means if it's parent goes away so does it 00:56 <@rizen> which is actually how all operating system filesystems work too 00:56 <@rizen> if you "copy" a file 00:57 <@rizen> and then delete the folder the file belongs to 00:57 <@rizen> and then try to "paste" the file 00:57 <@rizen> you can't do it 00:57 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll look to see if we can add something to the docs and then close the bug 00:57 < Radix_> can't remove the item from the trash? 00:58 <@rizen> huh? 00:58 <+perlDreamer> Radix_: clipboard, not trash 00:58 <+perlDreamer> although you can't restore from the clipboard either, can you? 00:58 <@rizen> yes you can 00:58 < Radix_> "She cut something from a page and then deleted the page." 00:58 < Radix_> so undelete the page, then it would come back, no? 00:59 <@rizen> Admin Console > Clipboard > Restore 00:59 <@rizen> yes, if she were to restore from trash, the page would come back into existence 00:59 <@rizen> but it would no longer be in the clipboard 00:59 <@rizen> it would be out onthe page 00:59 <@rizen> because she performed a "restore" operation to get it back 00:59 < Radix_> Ahh k.. clipped flag gets reset 00:59 <@rizen> and "restore" republishes 01:00 <+perlDreamer> ah, I see now 01:00 <@rizen> oh and pd 01:00 <+perlDreamer> sir? 01:01 <@rizen> if you try to paste an asset back to the page it was already on..it does a restore operation rather than a paste 01:01 <@rizen> because it's more efficient, and more likely what the user intended 01:01 <@rizen> so that's a shortcut to restore 01:01 <+perlDreamer> I also found out that you can restore an asset copied to the clipboard, which duplicates it on the page where it was copied from. 01:02 <@rizen> right 01:02 <@rizen> because the copy operation works like this: 01:02 <@rizen> 1) duplicate 01:02 <@rizen> 2) cut 01:02 <@rizen> therefore even though you didn't see it, for a split second it was on the page 01:02 <@rizen> =) 01:03 <+perlDreamer> sounds like we need a Clipboard, Using help entry 01:04 <@rizen> probably a wiki page rather than a help page 01:04 <+perlDreamer> why? 01:04 <@rizen> cuz it's more tutorial and less reference 01:04 <@rizen> and the help is a big bloated pile 01:04 <@rizen> already 01:05 <@rizen> and the more shit you keep adding to the help 01:05 <@rizen> the more memory webgui uses 01:05 <@rizen> i'm starting to formulate a plan about it actually 01:05 <@rizen> and that is that the only thing that should go into help 01:05 <@rizen> is stuff that is version specific 01:05 <@rizen> like fields and template variables 01:05 <@rizen> everything else should be linked out to the wiki 01:06 <+perlDreamer> between hoverHelp and the upcoming template variable manager, maybe we wouldn't even need online help. 01:07 <+perlDreamer> just a link to the Wiki 01:07 <@rizen> actually, that's a good point 01:07 <@rizen> and it also solves the searchability problem 01:07 <@rizen> cuz the wiki is searchable 01:07 <@rizen> and will be taggable 01:08 <@rizen> and it makes it far easier for translators 01:08 <@rizen> cuz they don't have to translate all the help in order to make a translation for webgui 01:08 <@rizen> just the stuff that matters 01:08 <+perlDreamer> we wouldn't have any translated docs for wiki entries, though 01:09 <@rizen> it's not like we do now anyway 01:09 <+perlDreamer> no 01:09 <@rizen> we don't have any real translations 01:09 <+perlDreamer> really? 01:09 <+perlDreamer> I've never looked at them 01:09 <@rizen> and on top of that, if someone wants that they can start a wiki on one of the other webgui worldwide sites 01:09 <@rizen> nobody has really translated webgui since 5.x 01:10 <@rizen> the dutch team is supposedly almost finished with a webgui 7 translation 01:10 <@rizen> but i haven't seen it 01:10 <@rizen> the more we can remove from help, the better as a far as webgui's memory usage goes 01:11 <+perlDreamer> yes 01:11 <@rizen> and like i said, since wiki is searchable, it's better for the user as well 01:11 <+perlDreamer> is the help->wiki transition scheduled, or just a generic RFE? 01:12 <@rizen> it's just one of my rough ideas 01:12 <+perlDreamer> I'll stop blowing in more information, except for fields and template variables then. 01:12 <@rizen> it's not officially an rfe or on the scheudle 01:12 <@rizen> but maybe we should do it for 7.4 as we do the template variable translation 01:13 <@rizen> from foo.bar to foo_bar 01:13 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 01:13 <@rizen> we'll be in there doing major revamp anyway 01:13 <+perlDreamer> as long as we can cut and paste from the online help to the wiki and it's fast, it shouldn't be too much work 01:13 <@rizen> might as well take care of both 01:13 <@rizen> yup 01:13 <+perlDreamer> the downside is that I can't write wiki articles 01:13 <@rizen> you can't? 01:14 <@rizen> why not? 01:14 <@rizen> for the same reason as me? 01:14 <+perlDreamer> not at $dayJob. Old Mozilla doesn't work with YUI tabs 01:14 <@rizen> oh 01:14 <@rizen> that's no bother 01:14 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:14 -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction 01:14 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 01:14 <@rizen> i actually can assign a pb staffer to do it 01:14 <@rizen> the copy paste job i mean 01:14 <@rizen> it certainly shouldn't be you doing it 01:14 <@rizen> or me for that matter 01:15 <@rizen> we have more important fish to fry 01:15 <+perlDreamer> why not? I'm a volunteer. I'm cheap. 01:15 <@preaction> rizen: last i heard, the dutch team had a translation of 7.2.3 01:15 <@rizen> you're a highly skilled and talented volunteer 01:15 <@rizen> and therefore not cheap 01:15 <@rizen> time is just as valuable as money 01:15 <@preaction> we need to keep you happy, and we can't use money to do it 01:15 <@rizen> and i have a data entry person on staff 01:16 <@rizen> so she can do it 01:17 <@rizen> i just sent her an email about it. she's out sick this week, so i'll get her started on it next week 01:18 <@rizen> pd: the tabs are supposed to degrade gracefully 01:18 <@rizen> what do you see? 01:18 <+perlDreamer> I see all 3 tabs, but I can't flip between them. 01:18 <+perlDreamer> I only get the view tab 01:19 <@rizen> ah. therein lies the problem 01:20 <@rizen> it's not that you don't have css/javascript capability 01:20 <@rizen> it's that you have a crappy implmeentation of both 01:20 <+perlDreamer> right 01:20 <+perlDreamer> Mozilla 1.4 01:20 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 01:21 <+perlDreamer> as she does the copy and paste, if she lets me know I can start pulling the articles out of the help as well 01:21 <+perlDreamer> and all links to it 01:23 <@rizen> we can just do that when she's done 01:23 <@rizen> and then the help icon in webgui will just link directly to http://wiki.webgui.org/ 01:23 <+perlDreamer> Do you know Isaac's last name and company so I can give him credit in the changelog for a bug with patch? 01:24 <@rizen> nope 01:28 <+perlDreamer> the only thing the help will need to do is do inheritance for fields and template variables. 01:30 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@143.sub-75-206-207.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 01:32 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: Still looking for help on folder template variables? 01:32 < SDuensin> Yea! 01:32 <+perlDreamer> preaction and I had a long talk about it this morning 01:32 * SDuensin has a broken network at the moment. Storms knocked it out. 01:32 < SDuensin> Oh? 01:33 <+perlDreamer> menuTitle is not an available template variable in the folder. 01:33 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/?op=viewHelp;hid=folder%20template;namespace=Asset_Folder 01:33 < SDuensin> Loding 01:33 < SDuensin> Loading, too. 01:33 <+perlDreamer> Here's our suggestion 01:34 <+perlDreamer> 1) File a bug for the missing menuTitle template var. 01:34 <+perlDreamer> that can be fixed quickly 01:34 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:34 <+perlDreamer> 2) Submit an RFE to review which template vars are provided for each Asset in the folder. 01:35 < SDuensin> Awesome. :-) Thanks! 01:35 <+perlDreamer> It could do something like a $asset->get(), which would populate all the asset variables 01:35 < SDuensin> I can't even get to my WebGUI install with my net down. :-( 01:35 <+perlDreamer> rizen can weigh in on the cost/side effects and give us a good permanent solution 01:36 <@rizen> rizen is not here right now. if you would like to leave a message for rizen, leave it after the beep. 01:36 <@rizen> BEEP 01:36 < SDuensin> :-P 01:36 <+perlDreamer> rizen: would rizen have a cow if inside the Folder file_loop it did $asset->get instead of assigning a subset of template variables? 01:36 <+perlDreamer> it would make the template variables big 01:37 < SDuensin> Big, schmig. RAM is cheap. :-) 01:37 <+perlDreamer> but potentially very handy 01:37 <+perlDreamer> Big = Slow = fewer pages/second 01:37 <@rizen> instead? 01:37 <@rizen> care to restate that 01:37 <+perlDreamer> right now it cherry picks asset variables 01:38 <@rizen> look agai 01:38 <@rizen> again 01:38 <+perlDreamer> inside the file_loop, there's getId, canView, getIcon, getName, getUrl, etc... 01:38 <@rizen> it cherry picks variable. not variables 01:38 <@rizen> the other things are method calls 01:38 <@rizen> therefore, instead = no 01:39 <+perlDreamer> in addition to? 01:39 <@rizen> in addition or as a base, sure 01:39 <+perlDreamer> cool! 01:39 <+perlDreamer> 7.4-ish or 7.3.12-ish? 01:39 < SDuensin> :-) 01:40 <+perlDreamer> wait a second 01:40 <+perlDreamer> this will never work with the template variable editor 01:40 < SDuensin> rizen, I'm expanding the template you gave me into a nice gallery. I want the menuTitle of the images to use as a long description while keeping their filename in the title. 01:41 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: use the synopsis instead 01:41 <@rizen> pd is right 01:41 < SDuensin> That's what I was thinking after reading the help URL you posted, perlDreamer . 01:42 <+perlDreamer> rizen: you're right. 01:42 <+perlDreamer> the current help system is completely broken 01:42 < SDuensin> Dunno why I couldn't find that help the other night. Looked all over the place. 01:43 <+perlDreamer> in that case, let's put the brakes on the whole concept of altering folder template variables 01:44 < SDuensin> Yea. Synopsis works for me. 01:44 * SDuensin wants his net fixed so he can finish the gallery! 01:44 * SDuensin is going to eat. Thanks again! 01:44 <+perlDreamer> That's why they pay me the big bucks 01:45 < SDuensin> heheh 01:45 <+perlDreamer> besides, it was rizen who put our heads on right 01:46 <@rizen> the folder asset rocks 01:46 <@rizen> that's why we're doing a whole talk on just that at the wuc 01:46 <+perlDreamer> are you covering folder podcasting? 01:47 <@rizen> i don't know exactly what all will be covered 01:47 <@rizen> lots of cool stuff 01:49 <@rizen> steve won't have his outline done until april 01:57 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 02:01 <+perlDreamer> --bug 02:02 <+perlDreamer> xtopher has been busy today 02:04 <+perlDreamer> --bug 02:13 < Radix-wrk> in the asset view, with the More->Revisions option. If you delete those revisions is that for ONLY that object, or all items in that revision history? 02:16 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@213.51.36.23] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:17 <@preaction> just that asset 02:17 <@preaction> it's probably just delete from assetData, where revisionDate = ? 02:17 <@preaction> (or similar, not exact) 02:17 < Radix-wrk> that's what I thought, but wanted to make sure - never used it before :) 02:18 < Radix-wrk> just answering a question on the forums 02:18 < Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/overwritting-images-in-the-assets-bin 02:19 <@preaction> ah 02:19 < Radix-wrk> wanted to make sure that I was right in my assumptions :) 02:20 < Radix-wrk> If I'm not, I'll blame you now.. it's cool :) 02:20 < Radix-wrk> hehe 02:20 <@preaction> i can be the pariah! 02:45 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit [""""] 04:05 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 04:05 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 04:31 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 04:32 < PedersenMJ> good 04:39 -!- NetForged_Neal [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Try something fresh"] 04:49 < Radix-wrk> yo 04:56 < PedersenMJ> How goes it? 04:57 <@rizen> the first of the three books is done 04:57 <@rizen> 400 pages later 04:57 <@rizen> have some formatting to do, and then it will be available for purchase 04:58 < PedersenMJ> Sweet. Which one is it that's done? 04:58 <@rizen> the content managers guide 04:58 <@rizen> i'm 1/3 of the way through the admins guide 04:59 < PedersenMJ> Hard for me to decide which of those two I'd be more interested in buying. Will buy both, most likely. 04:59 <@rizen> there's also the designer's guide 05:00 <@rizen> but that's going to be the last one out 05:00 <@rizen> lots of code examples to generate for that one 05:00 <@rizen> so it takes the longest 05:00 <@rizen> oh...and don't you have WebGUI Done Right 05:00 <@rizen> ?? 05:01 <@rizen> cuz i think we're going to offer coupons to WDR subscribers to get two of the 4 books we have for free if you have 6mo left on your WDR contract 05:02 <@rizen> don't quote me on that though...cuz it hasn't been decided for sure 05:02 < PedersenMJ> I do have that subscription, yeah. 05:02 < PedersenMJ> That would be cool, since I only got that this past Dec. 05:03 < PedersenMJ> Sorry for my idleness, doing banking tonight (yay. paying bills is fun! :p 05:27 <@preaction> gooeybot, smart questions is http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html or http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html 05:27 < gooeybot> OK, preaction. 05:54 <+crythias> gooeybot, gerald is fired. 05:54 < gooeybot> OK, crythias. 05:54 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 05:54 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 05:54 <+crythias> gerald? 05:54 < gooeybot> gerald is fired. 05:54 <+perlDreamer> oh dear 05:55 * PedersenMJ ponders doing the "smart question" version of "who is Gerald?", but realizes he'd spend an awful lot of time on prepping that question, and is just too impatient. So, who is gerald? 05:55 <+crythias> gooeybot, pi is 3.1415926535 (at least) 05:55 < gooeybot> OK, crythias. 05:55 <+perlDreamer> gerald == crythias 05:56 < PedersenMJ> Crythias: Am hoping you're not saying you're now jobless? 05:56 * PedersenMJ is dense, yes. 05:56 <+perlDreamer> crythias, don't you mean 3.1415926535 +/- 1.0 ? 05:56 <+crythias> oh, no. just relaying rizen's viewpoint. 05:56 < PedersenMJ> gooeybot, perlDreamer is the Indiana State Legislature. 05:56 < gooeybot> ...but perldreamer is bug empowered... 05:56 <+crythias> never ask a question you don't already know the answer to. 05:57 <+crythias> perldreamer: pi is never less than 3, even for very small values of pi. 05:57 <+perlDreamer> now, if only I was bug sponsored... 05:58 <+crythias> now, if only I were more creative in a website... 05:58 <+crythias> design is for pansies. 05:58 <+crythias> erm. oops 05:59 <+crythias> I meant to say, design is for people who have time to make things purty. 05:59 <@rizen> so i just demo'd drupal for the first time 05:59 <+perlDreamer> what did you think? 05:59 <@rizen> and i have to say...it was pretty cool 05:59 <@rizen> someone told me today that drupal was twice as powerful as webgui 05:59 <@rizen> so i had to see for myself 05:59 <+perlDreamer> any lessons we can learn from them? 05:59 <@rizen> if you define power as flexibility...drupal is 1/1000 as powerful as webgui 06:00 <@rizen> if you define power as easy to use then drupal is 1:1 as powerful as webgui 06:00 <@rizen> if you define power as number of features then drupal is 1/100 as powerful as webgui 06:00 <@rizen> BUT 06:00 <+crythias> I love the new cms's coming out : it can do anything you want to do ... as long as you do it. 06:00 <@rizen> if you define power as how quickly you can build your first site without knowing anything, then drupal is 10/1 as powerful as webgui 06:01 <@rizen> which makes me think....we have a weakness 06:01 <@rizen> and it needs to be corrected in 7.4 06:01 < PedersenMJ> Well, to be fair, JT, with that as your yardstick, raw HTML is about 10/1 as powerful as WebGUI. Unless you count interactivity in that list. 06:02 <+perlDreamer> how do we do that? 06:02 <@rizen> bring back an old idea that i had 06:02 <@rizen> but never implemented 06:02 <@rizen> that is 06:03 <@rizen> at the end of the little startup session (asks you your user/pass/email etc) 06:03 <@rizen> we ask the user if they wish to use the new site guided setup 06:03 <@rizen> if they say yes 06:03 <@rizen> then we lead them through a wizard 06:03 <@rizen> it asks them if they want a contact form 06:04 <@rizen> and if so, we add a page with a dataform asset preconfigured on their site 06:04 <@rizen> it asks them if they want forums...if so we put a message board up with a common list of forums in it 06:04 <@rizen> we ask them more about their organization...they provide a paragraph and a logo 06:04 <@rizen> and we create an about us page 06:04 <@rizen> we also hold on to that logo 06:05 <@rizen> because as part of this process 06:05 <+perlDreamer> like the style wizard on steroids 06:05 <@rizen> we give them a little design wizard 06:05 <@rizen> that will help them either pick a predesigned style 06:05 <@rizen> or make one from scratch 06:05 <@rizen> whatever we decide is easiest 06:05 <@rizen> but when they hit "save" for the last time 06:05 <@rizen> they have a fully built site 06:06 <@rizen> without using the regular webgui UI 06:06 <@rizen> and the key here is, that now that they have something familiar to them 06:06 <@rizen> they'll be able to play around with that 06:06 <@rizen> and learn how the regular ui works 06:06 <@rizen> because editng an existng asset 06:06 <@rizen> is far less scary 06:06 <@rizen> than adding a new one for the first time 06:07 <@rizen> everybody agree with the plan? 06:07 <@rizen> and dissenters? 06:07 <@rizen> any changes or additions? 06:07 <+crythias> gerald? 06:07 < gooeybot> gerald is fired. 06:07 <@rizen> gooeybot forget gerald 06:07 < gooeybot> rizen: I forgot gerald 06:07 <@rizen> now he's not fired anymore 06:08 <+crythias> ok... now'm simply forgotten *sniff* 06:08 <+crythias> :) 06:08 <+crythias> anyway, sure, good idea. 06:08 <@rizen> gooeybot, gerald is faq-o-licious 06:08 < gooeybot> OK, rizen. 06:08 <+crythias> faq me? 06:09 <@rizen> no feedback at all from anybody 06:09 <@rizen> except gerald 06:09 <@rizen> who seems pretty ho-hum about it 06:10 <@rizen> gooeybot, everyone is asleep 06:10 < gooeybot> ...but everyone is supposed to think i'm the jackass that shoots everyone's ideas down... 06:10 <@rizen> goeybot forget everyone 06:10 <@rizen> gooeybot, forget everyone 06:10 < gooeybot> rizen: I forgot everyone 06:10 <@rizen> goeybot, everyone is asleep 06:10 < PedersenMJ> Actually, it *is* a good idea. 06:11 <@rizen> gooeybot, everyone is asleep 06:11 < gooeybot> OK, rizen. 06:11 <+perlDreamer> hang on, preparing to nuke the site from orbit 06:11 * crythias smiles just like Might Guy of Naruto... 06:11 < PedersenMJ> Here's my one negative thought about it, though: How is it actually different from what exists right now? 06:12 <@rizen> there's no guided setup to webgui at all right now...you get stuck with a bunch of demo pages that you have no relatonship with 06:12 <+crythias> it allows people to kinda start with "their stuff" rather than "pb's stuff" 06:12 < PedersenMJ> What you actually get right now is a fully functioning website. The only real differences (that I can see from my pov) is that you might add the first few assets for them. 06:12 <@rizen> when the guided setup is over, you'll have a functioning site that is all your content 06:12 <+perlDreamer> well, not all but enough to see where to go from there. 06:13 <@rizen> ok..granted 06:13 <@rizen> but the key here is that it's a siite they can relate to 06:13 <@rizen> not just a bunch of demo content from us 06:13 <+perlDreamer> that's good 06:13 <@rizen> it's got a working style that has their logo in it 06:13 <@rizen> it's got the default pages that they want to have 06:13 < PedersenMJ> Okay, that makes sense. That's the major difference that wasn't clicking for me. 06:14 <@rizen> basically.. the goal is that within 10 minutes 06:14 <@rizen> they should be able to turn on the site and say, hey visitors, look at me, i'm on the web 06:15 <@preaction> can we add an option for a "blank" site as well? that just the import node and the bare minimum of required stuff (and doesnt' create that demo content?) 06:16 < PedersenMJ> Yes, please do! 06:16 <@rizen> i don't think that would be a good idea 06:16 <@preaction> i mean, if we're going that way, may as well go the full nines 06:16 <@rizen> no...that's going the opposite direction 06:16 <@rizen> the only people that will want that are people that already know what they're doing in webgui 06:16 <@rizen> and those people can just as easily delete the existing content 06:17 <@rizen> noob users should never have that option shown to them 06:17 < PedersenMJ> But, it would be nice to be able to have an empty slate right from the start. 06:17 <@rizen> why? 06:17 <@preaction> true, a luser will select it and wonder wtf 06:17 <@rizen> first of all...how fucking lazy are you that you can't spend the 30 seconds to delete the default content 06:18 < PedersenMJ> I work on computers. That right there makes me lazy to some degree. 06:18 <@rizen> and secondly, what does it get you? really...what? 06:18 < PedersenMJ> Nothing other than convenience factor. 06:18 <@rizen> no...what convenience? 06:18 <@rizen> what convenience does it give you? 06:18 < PedersenMJ> The convenience of not having to delete the page layouts and then create new. 06:19 <@rizen> really? are you sure that's what it gives you? 06:19 <@rizen> what it really gives you is extra setup time 06:19 <@rizen> because now you have to create a home page 06:19 <@rizen> and then go into the settings and set it as a home page 06:19 <@rizen> cuz you won't even have a home page under your plan 06:19 <@preaction> the layout itself is there, just no content, no subpages, nothing else, at least that's what i was figuring 06:19 <+perlDreamer> does drupal have a guided installer like this? What makes it easier to do an initial setup 06:20 < PedersenMJ> Unless what is actually installed is just a blank home page. 06:20 <@rizen> drupal has no guided setup...what it has though is no flexibility 06:20 <@rizen> and that's why it's easy to get started 06:20 < Radix-wrk> I have to agree with PedersenMJ - it would be nice to have a blank slate as an option - I think a basic home page with no pictures/articles/etc would be nice. 06:20 <@rizen> let's get it straight: i said no 06:21 < Radix-wrk> Just my 2c 06:21 <@rizen> the whole point of this discussion is to help out noobs 06:21 <@rizen> even having that option available will fuck up noobs 06:21 <@rizen> you can take the 30 seconds to delete the default content 06:21 < PedersenMJ> Actually, it's possible to abuse that option, go through the guided setup, and keep selecting "Nope, don't want that", which will give pretty close to the same result. 06:22 <@rizen> i know you guys have to think about yourself 06:22 <@preaction> PedersenMJ: can't protect against that much stupidity 06:22 <@rizen> but i have to think about the community at large 06:22 <@rizen> and that does not help the community at large 06:22 <@rizen> the number of potential new users is far greater than the number of existing users who are creating a second site 06:23 <@rizen> perlDreamer: back to you 06:23 <@rizen> no guided setup 06:23 <@rizen> but due to lack of flexibility 06:23 <@rizen> it's easy to get started 06:23 < PedersenMJ> Nope, not trying to protect against stupidity. Trying to say that, within JT's idea, it's possible to get pretty close to what I was asking for. 06:23 <@rizen> you go to content creation 06:23 <@rizen> and type in the names of the forums you want to create 06:23 < PedersenMJ> So, for me, it works, and I'll let it go at that :) 06:23 <@rizen> you don't get to place them 06:23 <@rizen> you don't get to choose templates 06:24 <@rizen> you just get to pick name 06:24 <@rizen> s 06:24 <@rizen> and whether or not users have to preview or if it's options 06:24 <@rizen> optional 06:24 < Radix-wrk> The full gui editor stuff sounds great, but a simpler option would be to simply have several different styles come with the distribution and an extra step to let them pick the theme (which would update dynamically or something as they looked at each one. 06:24 <@rizen> then you move on to polls and do the same thing 06:24 <@rizen> and finally you move on to site creation 06:24 <@rizen> and there you type what you want to appear in your menus 06:24 <@rizen> and if you want your menu on the left side or the right side 06:25 <@rizen> and pick from these four style templates 06:25 <@rizen> and choose the colors of them 06:25 <@rizen> and upload your logo 06:25 <@rizen> done 06:25 <@rizen> it's not a guided process 06:25 <@rizen> but what it is, is so inflexible..that it might as well be a guided process 06:26 <@rizen> the difference is that webgui will give you the easy guided process at the beginning 06:26 <@rizen> but then once you figure out what you're doing 06:26 <@rizen> it will also give you all the flexibility and power you could hope for 06:27 <@rizen> radix: as stated above, that was one of the options 06:27 <@rizen> design one or pick one 06:27 < PedersenMJ> Suggestion to go with it? Allow them to choose to import one right then? 06:28 < PedersenMJ> They might well have found an existing .wgpkg which gives them the look they want. Let them import it and choose it. 06:29 <@rizen> PedersonMJ: that's a good idea 06:29 <@rizen> probably just point them straight to the contrbs area 06:29 <@rizen> give them a url 06:29 <@rizen> and say...go pick one 06:29 <@rizen> and upload it 06:29 <@rizen> the shitty part about that though is...no way to put their logo into it 06:30 < PedersenMJ> Well, maybe... 06:30 <@rizen> but maybe if they upload one...we just warn them that they have to put their own logo in 06:30 <@rizen> and if they design one they get it put in automatically 06:30 <+perlDreamer> could we have packages that refer to the uploaded logo instead of one included in the package? 06:30 <+perlDreamer> the logo would have to be restricted to certain sizes/aspects... 06:30 <+perlDreamer> eh 06:30 < PedersenMJ> No *guaranteed* way to put it in. But come up with a simple standard: any theme should include a logo.png (or .jpg, or .gif), and *that* file can be replaced? 06:31 <+perlDreamer> we know the name, it just has to referenced via a macro in the package 06:31 <@rizen> we could request that users upload packages that have logo.png as part of it 06:31 <@rizen> and then just replace it 06:31 <@rizen> yeah pederson 06:31 < PedersenMJ> Any package which honors that standard gets an extra special graphic next to it, or somesuch, so that newbies know this one will work for them. 06:32 < Radix-wrk> it'd be nice to have a standard location in the asset tree for themes too actually 06:32 <@rizen> there is one 06:32 <@rizen> it's called the import node 06:32 <@rizen> =) 06:32 < Radix-wrk> the import node is a mess 06:32 <@rizen> the media folder is where you upload all your content images and files 06:32 <+perlDreamer> the logo can have any name, when we upload we'll assign it a URL and refer to it via an assetproxy macro. 06:32 <@rizen> and the import node is for templates and such 06:33 <@rizen> right pd...as long as the theme designers use the strict name...it doesn't matter what the user calls the image...or for that matter even if it's a jpg, png, or gif 06:33 <@rizen> we can convert it 06:33 < PedersenMJ> yeah, perlDreamer, I like that. A macro which spits out the img tag for the logo. Could even use ImageMagick to resize the logo if necessary. 06:33 <+perlDreamer> PMJ: that macro is the assetproxy macro 06:34 <+perlDreamer> we ask them for it, upload it, stuff it into an asset with known URL which is used by a special subset of packages 06:35 < PedersenMJ> True. What asset should a theme designer use to reference it? 06:35 <+perlDreamer> /company_logo ? 06:35 <@rizen> radix: i don't disagree that it's a mess...especially if you've gone through a lot of uploads...but i don't know what to do to make it better either 06:35 <+perlDreamer> we can set the standard to be anything which doesn't inconvenience the user 06:35 < Radix-wrk> me neither unfortunately :) 06:36 < Radix-wrk> but I find it hard to find templates these days.. with the large number of folders it might be.. search is the only option 06:36 <@rizen> s/uploads/upgrades/ 06:36 <+perlDreamer> the asset manager search makes the import node acceptable 06:36 <@rizen> yeah...but you have search 06:36 <@rizen> that's the key 06:36 < PedersenMJ> Well, for my own purposes, I use a "Themes" folder where I put my templates and the like, and hang that off of root. 06:36 <@rizen> and you also have the asset interface which allows you to edit/manage the templates 06:36 <@rizen> so you don't have to necessarily know where they are 06:37 <@rizen> i mean on the display tab 06:37 <@rizen> the edit/manage buttons next to each template 06:37 < Radix-wrk> I think styles should be standardized on what PedersenMJ has been doing. images/css/js/etc should all be in one place in one directory in the asset tree 06:37 < Radix-wrk> so if you import a package, you know where it's going to be, and you can delete it if you no longer want it and be assured that it'll all be cleaned up 06:37 <+perlDreamer> we're kind of wandering here, guys. 06:38 <+perlDreamer> Issue #1 is the auto-setup idea 06:38 <+perlDreamer> If we like it, we can banter implementation later 06:38 <+perlDreamer> but rizen is asking whether we think it's good or not, not how to do it. 06:38 <+perlDreamer> we can tell him that later :) 06:38 <@rizen> first: do we agree that this is even a problem? 06:38 < PedersenMJ> Definitely wandering, definitely. Sorry about that. Is the idea good? Absolutely. 06:38 <@rizen> the setup time 06:38 < PedersenMJ> Is it a problem? Allow me to say "hell yes!" 06:38 <@rizen> the where do i get started factor 06:38 < Radix-wrk> Yes, I think it is 06:39 <+perlDreamer> Ask Kristi 06:39 <@rizen> second: do we agree that my solution addresses that problem? 06:39 <@rizen> third: are there any ideas to improve the user level process of my idea? 06:39 <@rizen> how the wizard should work for the user 06:40 < PedersenMJ> It will address it to a point. It *will* get people started more easily. The one failing that can still occur is the sheer size/felxibility of WebGUI. People could still balk, and I have no idea how to counter that. 06:40 <@rizen> the only way i can think of to counter that is to either scale back webgui, or hide it from them...and either way..that hurts webgui 06:40 <@rizen> webgui is a monster 06:41 <@rizen> people should know that it's a monster 06:41 <@rizen> but they should also know that the monster is tamable 06:41 <+perlDreamer> Maybe Gooey should be frowning? 06:42 <@rizen> pd: you were just talking about getting off topic 06:42 <+perlDreamer> sorry 06:42 < Radix-wrk> second: yup, sounds great 06:42 <+perlDreamer> We all agree that wG is big, and that makes it hard to setup. 06:42 <+perlDreamer> If we help them set it up, what do we do from there? 06:43 <+perlDreamer> books, wikis, IRC, discussion boards....? 06:43 < Radix-wrk> third: ning.com has some nice ideas for how they set up their stuff, neat little ajax drag'n'drop kinda interface and custom colours. Might be worth a gander. 06:44 <@rizen> in the next few months we're going to have reams of documentation, and training options coming out of our ears. it's up to the community to provide free docs...the best we as developers can do is provide friendly tools to users 06:44 < Radix-wrk> I found that decent.. trick is to make it not too long that it's impossible go through in one setting, and not too short that you don't feel like you had much say in it. 06:44 < PedersenMJ> Hey, here's a truly stupid thought: Why aren't there links to plainblack support pages anywhere in (for instance) the admin console? 06:44 <@rizen> we put the advertising in the demo content 06:45 <@rizen> and as far as the actual support boards, etc...not everyone has access to that stuff 06:46 < PedersenMJ> Yes. But, for instance, why isn't there a link to wiki.webgui.org somewhere visible in a post-installation page, after all demo content would be removed? 06:46 <@rizen> there will be 06:46 <@rizen> in 7.4 the help icon is going to take you to wiki 06:47 <@rizen> no more help in 7.4 06:47 < PedersenMJ> That's what I meant when I asked about a support page link the admin console 06:50 <@rizen> radix: just tried out ning.com 06:50 <@rizen> yes something like that 06:55 <@rizen> ok...sounds like we're in agreement 06:55 <@rizen> oh...and pd..we can't get rid of the help unless we can build the template builder 06:55 <@rizen> which i'm still not 100% sure how to do 06:55 <@rizen> i'm a little scared about that 06:59 <@rizen> ok well, i'm gone for the night. thanks for the feedback guys...much appreciated 06:59 * rizen out 07:06 < Radix-wrk> caio 07:16 <+perlDreamer> I thought for the template builder that we gutted RTE and added a pop-up form for adding template variables. 07:17 < PedersenMJ> Oooh, there's something: Any chance that the list of macros is accessible from with webgui? Basically, add a popup form that shows a list of macros, too. 07:23 <+perlDreamer> isn't there an RFE for that? 07:24 <+perlDreamer> on the RTE, which isn't available in the template editor now, but in other places the ^#; button will bring up a subset of macros. I think. 07:25 < PedersenMJ> Ah, didn't even look for an rfe for that. My bad. 07:26 <+perlDreamer> maybe you should talk with someone who has commit access about implementing that particular RFE for 7.4 :) 07:29 < PedersenMJ> Heh. My idea for it is bigger than just a popup form. With all the info that is available in the online help (and which I assume will continue to be available in the wiki when 7.4 comes out), it should be possible to provide an "IDE" for the macros. 07:29 <+perlDreamer> that's a pretty big idea 07:29 <+perlDreamer> much bigger than populating the current macro selector with the current set of configured macros 07:30 < PedersenMJ> Not a full IDE, mind you. Just something that will provide the template and help for a given macro. 07:31 <+perlDreamer> the current macro editor does a subset of that, it inserts a sample usage for each macro selected 07:32 < PedersenMJ> That's cool. I just haven't gotten to that point yet in my explorations of webgui. 07:32 <+perlDreamer> but it doesn't link to the help yet, and it doesn't show the complete, possible usage of the macro 07:49 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 08:17 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:41 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:00 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 09:35 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit ["leaving"] 09:37 -!- Hinrik_ is now known as Hinrik 09:42 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 09:53 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:01 < pjesi> 4x XEON dual core 3.2ghz and yet WebGUI crushing at 4 in load 10:22 -!- pjesi [n=pjesi@client-82-20-29-208.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:52 -!- SDuensin_ [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 11:54 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@143.sub-75-206-207.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:28 -!- wgGuest62 [n=wgGuest6@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui 13:30 < wgGuest62> hey 13:38 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui 13:38 < wgGuest62> is there a way (a macro?) to get the URL of the current user's profile? 13:41 < wgGuest62> ah trought the User iD macro I guess 14:09 -!- SDuensin_ [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:37 -!- wgGuest62 [n=wgGuest6@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has quit [] 15:24 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 15:39 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:39 -!- Hinrik_ is now known as Hinrik 15:49 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 15:52 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:12 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 16:12 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 17:18 < ckotil> I need some guidance on my group structure 17:27 < ckotil> nvm. ive got it figured out. 17:28 < ckotil> i needed it setup so that my engineers can view and edit all of our internal documents, and then at the same time allow our customers to view the documents for their particular network. 17:28 < ckotil> so i create a group for each network and set that to view. and set the able to edit option to group engineers 18:26 -!- Hinrik_ is now known as Hinrik 18:30 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Xirc - MacOSX"] 18:34 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 18:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 18:36 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has left #webgui [] 18:49 <@rizen> perlDreamer: are you here!!! 18:49 <@rizen> ??? 18:52 <+perlDreamer> I'm here, I'm there, I'm everywhere 18:52 <+perlDreamer> so beware 18:52 <+perlDreamer> I gotta find the source for that quote 19:03 < ckotil> beatles 19:03 <+perlDreamer> Like Ringo and Paul? 19:04 < ckotil> yah, 'here, there and everywhere' 19:07 < ckotil> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f5d_1172741350 squirrel catapult 19:07 < ckotil> using that import script i creatd 900+ workflows..... 19:07 < ckotil> its gonna take about an hour to cook them all out 19:08 < ckotil> and i didnt even grab the content :/ 19:11 <+perlDreamer> oy 19:12 * perlDreamer hopes for a telnetd attack today 19:25 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 19:44 < ckotil> i have this pending version tag, and when i run spectre --status, it shows the workflow as waiting. but in the show running workflow screen, the workflow is shown as error. 19:44 < ckotil> not really a bug. 19:44 < ckotil> just wierd. 20:29 < ckotil> hell yeah. the links even work for the faq o matic entries that are now article assets and page layouts 21:01 <+perlDreamer> snapcount_ is good 21:01 < snapcount_> eh? 21:02 < snapcount_> I thought I was bad 21:02 <+perlDreamer> bad is good 21:02 < snapcount_> oh 21:02 <+perlDreamer> ckotil likes the import script 21:02 < snapcount_> ahh 21:02 < snapcount_> I think the one he's using has been passed around a few times 21:02 < snapcount_> JT modified it 21:03 < snapcount_> then I modified it to not create 1500 copies of each image and file asset =) 21:07 <+perlDreamer> that's good 21:46 <+perlDreamer> we keep getting more of those undef Asset bugs 21:55 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui 21:56 -!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui 21:58 <+perlDreamer> what is this Dutch obsession with hair and appearance? 21:58 <+perlDreamer> HairGrease, Dapper? 21:58 < rjacobsen> quick question about webgui - is there a macro that will show a product price? and how would i type the macro (ie. ^Product(101,price) )... that one is not working so i need to know how to get the price of a product on my site with this macro and how it should be typed 21:59 <+perlDreamer> The product macro is what you want to use. Be sure that you're giving it proper arguments. 21:59 < rjacobsen> thats my problem - not sure the correct way to insert the arguments 21:59 < rjacobsen> like ^Product(101, ?) 21:59 <+perlDreamer> the online help will tell you what you need to know 22:00 <+perlDreamer> become admin 22:00 <+perlDreamer> turn admin on 22:00 <+perlDreamer> go to the admin bar 22:00 <+perlDreamer> select admin console 22:00 <+perlDreamer> choose the help icon 22:00 <+perlDreamer> select the macro tab 22:00 < rjacobsen> does "price" go where the ? is? 22:00 <+perlDreamer> no 22:00 < rjacobsen> i see variant.price 22:00 <+perlDreamer> that is a template variable 22:00 < rjacobsen> but dont know where to insert it 22:00 <+perlDreamer> not a macro argument 22:01 <+perlDreamer> your product is configured to use a template to display it 22:01 < rjacobsen> right 22:01 <+perlDreamer> that's where you'd use the variant.price variable 22:01 < rjacobsen> i just want to be able to call just the price of the particular product 22:01 <+perlDreamer> you'd have to create a custom template to do that 22:01 * perlDreamer heads to lunch 22:01 <+perlDreamer> namaste 22:01 < rjacobsen> let me explain 22:03 < rjacobsen> i have a page on a shopping cart form that is thru paypal - instead of putting in a hardcoded price in the value, i want to put in a product/price macro that will put the price in for a particular product without having to change the code all the time 22:03 < rjacobsen> so when i change the product price on the product page it will dynamically change the price in the form via the macro 22:04 < rjacobsen> am i makin any sense>? 22:06 < ckotil> yeah that will be possible. 22:06 <@preaction> so you make a template that has one thing: "", and use that template's ID in your product macro 22:06 < ckotil> might have to write acustom macro 22:06 < dapperedodo> You create a template for the product macro with only the in it. Then use the product macro with that template 22:06 <@preaction> great minds think alike 22:07 < dapperedodo> :) 22:07 < rjacobsen> im real stupid when it comes to macros sorry - can u pls explain a little more? 22:07 < dapperedodo> OH, and for perlDreamer: Dapper means brave in Dutch, nothing with appearance 22:08 < rjacobsen> i know how to use them...... but makin em is difficult 22:08 <@preaction> rjacobsen: you dont have to make one. the second argument to ^Product(productId, templateId); allows you to add an arbitrary template for the product 22:08 < rjacobsen> ok so where do i make that template? 22:09 <@preaction> where ever, you just need the ID 22:09 < rjacobsen> the in the product category? 22:09 < rjacobsen> and the ID is the url? 22:09 <@preaction> it doesn't even need a namespace 22:09 <@preaction> no the ID is the ID 22:09 <@preaction> it's the first item on the edit form after you've created it 22:10 < rjacobsen> so i open the product category and click template (for new template) and name that? 22:10 <@preaction> or put the template in the import node, whatevz 22:12 < rjacobsen> i just dont see an ID slot..... i see Title, Menu Title, URL, Namespace 22:12 < rjacobsen> am i missing something? 22:13 <@preaction> you dont get to choose an ID, I said "after you've created it" 22:13 < rjacobsen> sorry 22:13 <@preaction> once it's created, edit it again, and the first item will be "Asset ID" or something similar 22:13 <@preaction> it'll be a seemingly random series of 22 characters 22:13 <@preaction> (random being the idea, so that there's no collision) 22:14 < rjacobsen> AHHHHH 22:14 < rjacobsen> i see 22:14 < rjacobsen> so i put that in the templateID 22:14 <@preaction> so ^Product("sku","templateId"); 22:14 < rjacobsen> so it would be ^Product(101, C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ); 22:14 <@preaction> probably want to use quotes, but yes 22:14 < rjacobsen> i mean ^Product("101","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); 22:15 < rjacobsen> now i can call this into a script you think? 22:16 <@preaction> perlbot tias 22:16 < perlbot> Try It And See: the best way to learn if something works. 22:16 < rjacobsen> ill let ya know thanx VERY much for your help 22:16 < rjacobsen> and THANKYOU for fixin the import packages 22:18 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Xirc - MacOSX"] 22:18 <@preaction> that was all pd 22:19 <@preaction> he gets paid so well that he can work on wG for free, the git 22:21 < rjacobsen> i cant get this to work :( 22:22 < rjacobsen> the form code is in the body tag of the page.... and it wont let me pull in the macro 22:22 < rjacobsen> wierd 22:22 < rjacobsen> i try and and still nothing 22:23 < rjacobsen> when it is called it shows nothing 22:23 < rjacobsen> paypal keeps saying please enter a number greater than 0 22:24 <@preaction> are you sure it's supposed to be "variant.amount" and not something else? make sure the macro is working by putting a field you know work, like the sku or something 22:25 < rjacobsen> im not sure how to test it as it goes to the paypal site 22:25 < rjacobsen> this is what inputs into paypal the price of the product 22:25 <@preaction> make an article that mimics the behavior? or maybe an article that just tries the macro? 22:26 < rjacobsen> ok 22:30 < rjacobsen> the macro isnt working 22:31 < rjacobsen> because i tried ^Page("title"); and it showed up fine in the article as the page title.... but the ^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); just shows the code 22:31 <@preaction> product macro not enabled on your site? it isn't by default 22:32 < rjacobsen> it may not be then 22:32 < rjacobsen> how do i enable it? 22:32 <@preaction> add it to the configuration file 22:32 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui 22:32 <@preaction> data/WebGUI/etc/yoursite.conf 22:33 < rjacobsen> just add the ^Product("sku","templateID"); to it? 22:35 <@preaction> look in the configuration file, there's a section devoted to Macros, you should be able to see how to add one 22:41 < rjacobsen> that is awesome thank you 23:00 < rjacobsen> ok i enabled the product macro and started out by simply putting in ^Product("101"); and it says cannot find product even though there is a product 101 23:03 < dapperedodo> Did you define the product in the commerce module? 23:05 < rjacobsen> how do i do that? 23:05 < dapperedodo> go to the admin console - click 'Products' 23:06 < rjacobsen> ok there is none listed - wierd 23:06 < rjacobsen> but i have like 20 product pages 23:06 < dapperedodo> Ah, the product wobject is not connected to the commerce module 23:06 < rjacobsen> damm 23:06 < rjacobsen> so how can i make this work? 23:06 < dapperedodo> The product wobject was developed a long time ago 23:07 < dapperedodo> add the products also in the Products 23:07 < rjacobsen> ok 23:07 < dapperedodo> and it will work 23:07 < rjacobsen> ty 23:07 < dapperedodo> It is a little more work 23:09 < rjacobsen> one more question 23:10 < rjacobsen> the current template i created for my product page layout - can i use it for the products in the commerce? 23:10 < rjacobsen> if so i can make it totally dynamic 23:18 < dapperedodo> They are not connected (yet???), but you can try to merge them 23:19 < dapperedodo> The commerce product has no options for extra features and so 23:19 <+perlDreamer> apologies, dapperedodo 23:20 <+perlDreamer> But in English your nick is a well groomed extinct bird 23:20 < dapperedodo> I just looked in the dictionary 23:20 <+perlDreamer> As long as we know that it's the Dutch MySQL powerhouse behind the name, you can call yourself anything you like. 23:20 < dapperedodo> I am fine with it 23:21 < dapperedodo> :) 23:21 <+perlDreamer> So you and your team were spun out from Procolix into an independent business? 23:22 < dapperedodo> yes that's right 23:22 < dapperedodo> We do the hard programming stuf 23:22 <+perlDreamer> Is that going well? 23:22 < dapperedodo> ProcoliX does the hosting stuf 23:22 < dapperedodo> It is going very well 23:22 <+perlDreamer> cool 23:22 < dapperedodo> Programming is much more fun then Hosting 23:22 < rjacobsen> why when i click on the commerce button in the admin console does it just bring me back to the website page i was working on? it does not open any editing options for commerce 23:23 < dapperedodo> and people want to pay for both, so we are both in business 23:23 <+perlDreamer> Oh, so you still work with procolix 23:24 < dapperedodo> Yes, we are a great team, only the business split 23:24 < dapperedodo> clicking the commerce button should get you the commerce settings 23:24 < rjacobsen> it doesnt sir 23:25 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen, what's in your webgui.log file? 23:25 < rjacobsen> it just brings me back to the web page i was working on before i opened the admin console 23:26 < dapperedodo> I'm off now, see you later 23:26 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Xirc - MacOSX"] 23:27 < rjacobsen> what site is that i use to copy and paste again? to show you the error log? 23:27 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot: paste? 23:27 < gooeybot> somebody said paste was http://paste.biz 23:28 < rjacobsen> http://paste.biz/paste-775.html 23:29 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen: I need to ask you some questions 23:30 <+perlDreamer> do you host your own server? 23:30 < rjacobsen> yes we do 23:30 < rjacobsen> linux 23:30 < rjacobsen> fadora 23:30 <+perlDreamer> you have shell access? 23:30 < rjacobsen> yes we do - or my boss does anyhow 23:30 <+perlDreamer> have you customized WebGUI? 23:30 < rjacobsen> do you want to talk to him? 23:30 < rjacobsen> yes we have quite a bit 23:31 < rjacobsen> but not much with the base code that i know of 23:31 <+perlDreamer> what version of wG are you running? 23:31 < rjacobsen> second - let me get my boss in the irc channel 23:31 <+perlDreamer> okay 23:32 <+perlDreamer> you're probably missing the Locale::US perl module 23:32 <+perlDreamer> but there are ways to test that 23:36 -!- dwalisser [n=dwalisse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui 23:36 < rjacobsen> ok sir 23:36 < rjacobsen> dwallisser is my boss and has shell access to webgui 23:37 <+perlDreamer> dwalisser, what version of WebGUI are you running? 23:37 < dwalisser> 7.3.10 23:37 < rjacobsen> correction 23:37 < rjacobsen> 7.3.11 23:37 <+perlDreamer> I would like you to run the testEnvironment script in the sbin directory 23:37 < dwalisser> ah, 7.3.11, needed to refresh 23:38 <+perlDreamer> be sure to use the switch to just print out a report 23:38 < dwalisser> ok 23:38 <+perlDreamer> perl testEnvironment.pl --simpleReport 23:38 <+perlDreamer> I'm guessing that you're missing a module, but this will tell us 23:40 < dwalisser> It says HTML::Template outdated, Text::Aspell not installed, Locale::US not installed 23:40 <+perlDreamer> you need to install Locale::US 23:41 < dwalisser> ok 23:41 <+perlDreamer> once you do that, you should be golden 23:41 <+perlDreamer> and do update HTML::Template, the newer version fixes some long standing bugs with template variables that you will eventually run into 23:43 < dwalisser> ok, done. thanks for your help 23:44 <+perlDreamer> no problem. 23:44 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen is a hard worker and coming up to speed well. 23:44 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI has a steep learning curve 23:46 < rjacobsen> i really appreciate all your help 23:47 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 23:47 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 23:47 <+perlDreamer> You're welcome. Just remember that we've all been where you have been and hang in there. 23:47 < rjacobsen> this seems to fix the problem - although when i put in ^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); i get nothing 23:47 <+perlDreamer> and if you have a chance, answer a question on the boards, post a wiki article or add a contrib. 23:47 < rjacobsen> and i know i put the product in 23:48 < rjacobsen> i can put in ^Product("103"); and it shows the product..... but i use ^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); - which should show the product price only - it does not 23:48 <+perlDreamer> then you have a template problem 23:49 < rjacobsen> the C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ is the asset ID to the template i made with 23:50 <+perlDreamer> variant.price only exists inside of the variantLoop 23:50 < rjacobsen> ok 23:50 <+perlDreamer> just nest it in a loop, and only have 1 variant 23:50 < rjacobsen> let me explain what i am trying to do sir 23:50 <+perlDreamer> You need to put this in a form to paypal 23:50 < rjacobsen> yes 23:50 <+perlDreamer> (I was lurking earlier) 23:50 < rjacobsen> and send only the price 23:51 <+perlDreamer> if your product only has 1 variant, then there will only be 1 price 23:51 < rjacobsen> so how would i write the code on the template page? 23:51 <+perlDreamer> 23:51 < rjacobsen> ahhhh 23:52 < rjacobsen> let me try that 23:52 <+perlDreamer> may I make a suggestion? 23:52 < rjacobsen> brb 23:52 < rjacobsen> sure sir 23:52 <+perlDreamer> take 30 minutes, and read through some of the online wG docs 23:52 < rjacobsen> i have already 23:52 < rjacobsen> a lot 23:52 <+perlDreamer> all right 23:52 <+perlDreamer> because knowing HTML::Template well is pretty important for getting stuff to work 23:53 < rjacobsen> where can i find the read info on that? you have a url? 23:54 <+perlDreamer> ?op=viewHelp;hid=template%20language;namespace=Asset_Template 23:54 <+perlDreamer> use that op on your site 23:54 <+perlDreamer> kidscorner.us.com?op=..... 23:54 < rjacobsen> ok 23:56 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I need a bug consult. Do you have 10 minutes? 23:57 <@preaction> yo 23:58 <+perlDreamer> read this first: http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/clipboard-to-trash#_ih716rkIGoJIKR1-geK-g 23:58 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 23:59 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 23:59 <+perlDreamer> I think we can handle this one of 3 ways 23:59 <+perlDreamer> 1) Return an error saying that you can't delete uncommitted assets. 23:59 <+perlDreamer> 2) Delete it anyway, leaving the user with an empty, uncommitted version tag --- Day changed Sat Mar 03 2007 00:00 <+perlDreamer> 3) Don't do anything 00:00 <@preaction> with the addition of "enter the revision and remove the revision of this asset manually" 00:00 < rjacobsen> thank you for all your help and sorry if i sound like an idiot here - just tryin to do my job well and make this thing work very well...... before my introduction to webgui i used php-nuke and a LOT of html/database code..... so this is a whole new world........ but i do appreciate the help 00:00 <@preaction> i think for now it'd be better to do 1) with instructions on how to continue, with the future being 2) once tmrfe gets involved 00:01 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll punt until we get tmrfe'd 00:01 <@preaction> wait, the Admin is trying to remove from the system clipboard? 00:01 <+perlDreamer> Yes 00:01 <@preaction> they should be allowed to do that imho 00:01 <+perlDreamer> I think so too, but what about the empty version tag? 00:02 <+perlDreamer> isn't that bad juju? 00:02 <@preaction> maybe empty trash should detect newly empty version tags and delete them 00:02 <@preaction> in fact, imho, empty version tags should never exist 00:02 <+perlDreamer> it sounds bad. 00:02 <@preaction> to delete them? or to allow them? 00:03 <+perlDreamer> to create empty ones via anymethod 00:03 <@preaction> creating a version tag should be a result of another method 00:03 <+perlDreamer> I'm pretty sure the TrashClipboard workflow activity has this same bug, btw 00:03 <@preaction> addRevision or addChild 00:03 <+perlDreamer> it is, but they're never automatically destroyed when emptied 00:03 <@preaction> do you think they should be? i do 00:04 <@preaction> an empty version tag is useless 00:04 <+perlDreamer> I agree with you, preaction 00:04 <+perlDreamer> You're preachin' to the choir 00:04 <@preaction> sounds like something for the dev list 00:04 <+perlDreamer> The dev list? That's dead :) 00:04 <@preaction> it's not dead so much as we haven't had anything to put there 00:04 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:04 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 00:04 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 00:04 <@preaction> since when JT hangs out here, he's The Final Word 00:05 <@preaction> which negates the necessity for discussion 00:05 <+perlDreamer> or immediate presence in IRC 00:07 <@preaction> i can't think of any need for a version tag that has nothing in it yet, except when you do WebGUI::VersionTag->getWorking (which creates a tag to prepare for you to do a bunch of stuff under it, if there is no tag already) 00:07 <@preaction> so we can't just remove them willy-nilly 00:08 <@preaction> i think probably as each asset in the trash is deleted, check the tagId and see if we can delete the version tag as well 00:09 <@preaction> that way, too, in the system manage version tags, tags from long ago that have since had all their assets deleted will not show up 00:09 <@preaction> i dunno, i'm over my head now 00:15 < rjacobsen> how can i add/remove stuff from the admin bar on the left side of the screen for users i do not want to see certain things and users i want to see more? example: secondary admin can see "products" but testuser(content manager) can not 00:15 < rjacobsen> is there a way? 00:16 <@preaction> uiLevels 00:17 < rjacobsen> do what? lol 00:17 <@preaction> ask? 00:17 < gooeybot> ask is Don't ask to ask, just ask. Don't repeat. If nobody answers, it probably means nobody knows. While you wait: Check the fine manual, check google, check the source, try different things on a demo site. 00:17 <@preaction> smart questions? 00:17 < gooeybot> smart questions is http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html or http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html 00:17 <@preaction> there's the one 00:18 <@preaction> uiLevels are documented, the way you'll probably want to implement them is in the configuration file 00:22 < dwalisser> can the config file override the ui level hard-coded in the wobject? 00:22 <@preaction> yes it does 00:22 < dwalisser> ah 00:23 <@preaction> you can also override which groups are allowed to add which types of assets in the config file 00:26 < dwalisser> has anyone written a clever script that would allow me to setup one site config file the way I want and copy it to all the others (I have 15 that I want to be identical) 00:27 < dwalisser> the difference being the db user/password and dsn only 00:27 < dwalisser> oh and the sitename 00:27 < dwalisser> ah and the uploadsPath 00:27 < dwalisser> I think that covers it 00:27 <@preaction> the config files are JSON, so write your own. jsonToObj gives you a perl data structure, objToJson puts it back 00:28 < dwalisser> sounds like a simple script then 00:29 <+perlDreamer> dwalisser, that's kind of what the WRE does 00:29 <+perlDreamer> I think it has a template for all new sites it creates 00:29 <+perlDreamer> config files, etc. 00:30 <+perlDreamer> alter the template, and you should be done. 00:30 < dwalisser> yes, I've been using that "WebGUI.conf.original", downside is it is overwritten every time I upgrade 00:31 <+perlDreamer> make a small SVN repository and check it in. 00:31 <+perlDreamer> after the upgrade, do a merge 00:31 <@preaction> or keep a diff, and run the patch 00:31 < dwalisser> yeah 00:35 <+perlDreamer> man, preaction, we know this WebGUI stuff pretty well. Maybe we should look into doing it as more than a hobby. 00:36 <@preaction> no crap, maybe we should be getting paid for this 00:39 <+perlDreamer> how's the hacking coming? 00:39 <@preaction> not so bad 00:40 <@preaction> is it just me, or is it impossible to get a truly deep structure out of the WebGUI::Config interface 00:40 <@preaction> example: workflow activities are a hash of array refs 00:40 <@preaction> i suppose the interface is returning references, so i can work with that 00:40 <+perlDreamer> yeah 00:41 <+perlDreamer> I think this is going to be the highest subrev of wG ever 00:41 <+perlDreamer> .12 00:41 <+perlDreamer> and we're not done yet 00:41 <@preaction> i think we'll be going further than that before 7.4 00:41 <@preaction> but i also think it's very good that we're doing so 00:42 <+perlDreamer> me, too 00:42 <+perlDreamer> a very stable wG will make all of our lives easier 00:42 <@preaction> webgui has a lot of features, and people are clamoring for more, but bugs and a stable maintainable code base are far more important for the future 00:42 <@preaction> i should RFE for "update skeletons to conform to WebGUI Best Practices" 00:43 <+perlDreamer> Do you ever wonder about the features people _don't_ clamor for? 00:43 <+perlDreamer> Could they be removed? 00:43 <@preaction> such as the guided setup? 00:43 <@preaction> or i18n? 00:43 < gooeybot> i guess i18n is overwritten each upgrade 00:43 <@preaction> i18n is a mixed bag, it's the reason some people choose webgui, but it's also just cruft for a lot of people 00:43 <+perlDreamer> yes 00:43 <+perlDreamer> they really want i18n content and UI 00:43 <+perlDreamer> but we only do half that 00:44 <@preaction> well, the UI we have control over, the content they have control over, make a section for each translation 00:45 <@preaction> i mean, if they want multiple languages, they're going to have to do something 00:56 <@preaction> if a scheduled workflow activity isSerial but is not a singleton, that means i can queue up multiple activities that will all run one at a time, correct? 00:56 <@preaction> i mean, it's what the docs say 00:58 <+perlDreamer> that sounds right to me 01:06 <+perlDreamer> have a look at Session.pm, line 638 01:06 -!- dwalisser [n=dwalisse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"] 01:07 <@preaction> WebGUI::Session? 01:07 <+perlDreamer> yes 01:07 <@preaction> 1;? 01:08 <+perlDreamer> $self->var("adminOn") 01:08 <+perlDreamer> var->get("adminOn") or var->isAdminOn 01:08 <+perlDreamer> I've been trying to fix xtopher's dbSlave bug 01:08 <+perlDreamer> it's weird 01:09 <+perlDreamer> that line is a bug, but it won't generate a DBI level connect error 01:09 <+perlDreamer> he says that the slave connections are all okay 01:11 <@preaction> you sure it's session.pm? not db.pm? 01:12 <@preaction> dbSlave, i see 01:12 <@preaction> wrong line 01:13 <+perlDreamer> brb 01:19 <+perlDreamer> back 01:19 <@preaction> it tries to connect to all three, that's probably bad 01:19 <+perlDreamer> yeah 01:20 <+perlDreamer> also, it tries to connect even if it is in adminMode and is going to use the main server anyway 01:20 <@preaction> it's possible that when it tries to connect the second and third time, it negates the other connections, and then it randomly selects one of the negated connections 01:21 <@preaction> though i don't see how, but whatevz 01:21 <+perlDreamer> he's getting a connect error, during connection creation 01:23 <+perlDreamer> I guess the way it's implemented now, it sprays across the servers during a page view, as opposed to randomly choosing a slave for an entire page view 01:23 <+perlDreamer> I think the second would be safer 01:24 <@preaction> might even be faster 01:24 <+perlDreamer> like 3X faster 01:26 <@preaction> where IS jt today? wonder what he's going to do about frank snaking my weekend 01:26 <@preaction> i was supposed to go down to madison to play Supreme Commander in a little LAN party 01:26 <@preaction> the git 01:48 <+perlDreamer> JT took the day off 01:49 <+perlDreamer> said something about setting up a LAN party to play SupCom with out of town guests or something 02:14 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:17 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 02:17 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 02:35 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 02:37 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:43 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Hinrik, gooeybot, Radix_ 03:44 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Hinrik, gooeybot, Radix_ 03:44 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Radix_ 03:44 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Radix_ 04:52 -!- Radix__ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 04:52 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 04:52 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 04:53 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #webgui [] 05:12 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:20 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:57 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 05:57 < PedersenMJ> Good evening. 06:04 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 07:06 <@preaction> possible good idea: a Dumb Container wobject to make wG dev easier. You could simply make a definition for a "Address Book Item" asset, sub-class the Dumb Container wobject to simply tell it that it should contain "Address Book Item" assets, and you have an application (in this case, an Address Book) 07:16 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:52 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui 07:57 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 08:32 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:32 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 16:17 -!- wgGuest41 [n=wgGuest4@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui 16:17 < wgGuest41> hi all 16:18 < wgGuest41> Do you know which session timeout setting has plainblack.com? I need to find a compromise between usability and security 17:38 -!- wgGuest41 [n=wgGuest4@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has quit [] 18:19 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 18:19 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [Client Quit] 19:01 -!- wgGuest74 [n=wgGuest7@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui 19:01 < wgGuest74> hi 19:01 < gooeybot> bonjour, wgGuest74 19:01 < wgGuest74> thanks :) 19:01 < wgGuest74> I disconnected before 19:02 < wgGuest74> did you read my session timeout question? :) 19:31 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 19:31 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:12 -!- wgGuest74 [n=wgGuest7@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has quit [] --- Day changed Sun Mar 04 2007 00:07 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 00:07 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 00:08 <+perlDreamer> the deadline has passed 00:08 <+perlDreamer> we should change the title 00:08 <+perlDreamer> the pressure is now on snapcount_ and the other PB staff, who must wade through the dozens of 00:08 <+perlDreamer> wiki entries submitted by the community 00:09 <+perlDreamer> or the dozens of pages submitted by PedersenMJ for his one entry 00:18 <+perlDreamer> in any case, all of WebGUI-dom waits, breathlessly to see who will win the 00:18 <+perlDreamer> latest installment of this contest. 00:36 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 00:51 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:54 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:36 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 01:41 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:37 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 04:37 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 05:00 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 05:00 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 05:05 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #webgui [] 06:36 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 06:36 < PedersenMJ> hello all 06:53 <+perlDreamer> hey, man 06:55 <+perlDreamer> hm 06:56 <+perlDreamer> say that three times fast 06:56 <+perlDreamer> petrolacasaurus 06:57 < PedersenMJ> Is that the gasoline dinosaur that also has a wall outlet in its tail? 06:59 <+perlDreamer> yup, that's him 07:00 <+perlDreamer> The Discovery Channel rocks 07:00 <+perlDreamer> so far I've found two bugs tonight from writing API tests 07:01 < PedersenMJ> unit tests are an amazing thing for finding bugs. 07:03 < PedersenMJ> I always wind up pointing to my first experience with them as evidence of their strength. I had written up (in C) mime encode/decode routines. And had checked them over pretty thoroughly, done some tests, etc. I knew they worked. And then I formalized into unit tests, and found out that one of my decide routines was missing the return statement, making it broken. 07:03 < PedersenMJ> And I had "known" that it worked just fine for months. 07:04 <+perlDreamer> that sounds like a good lesson 07:04 <+perlDreamer> my favorite one was "well, all the tests pass so the design is fine" 07:04 <+perlDreamer> that was before I learned about test coverage 07:05 < PedersenMJ> For me, that was learning about writing *any* tests :) 07:05 < PedersenMJ> However, I know that I'm weak in some testing aspects. Okay, most of them. Any good websites on how to ensure test coverage? 07:05 < PedersenMJ> Or that at least discuss it? 07:06 <+perlDreamer> I don't know of any. 07:06 <+perlDreamer> I went to an OSCON presentation last year and became a believer 07:06 <+perlDreamer> The big testing things seem to be 07:06 <+perlDreamer> 1) Write them 07:06 <+perlDreamer> well, 07:06 <+perlDreamer> 0) Write Unit tests 07:07 <+perlDreamer> 1) Run your coverage on your unit tests 07:07 <+perlDreamer> 2) write integration tests 07:07 < PedersenMJ> That's the part I'm missing. 07:07 <+perlDreamer> integration tests? WebGUI doesn't have any yet either 07:08 < PedersenMJ> I'm working on a python script that will automate a *lot* of the verification of the state of the code and docs for another set of python scripts I'm working on. 07:08 < PedersenMJ> But I have yet to even come close to finding a way to verify (programatically) that enough integration testing is being done. 07:09 <@preaction> what do you mean by integration tests? 07:09 <+perlDreamer> for wG, it would be UI level tests 07:09 <+perlDreamer> things that test multiple things together in a sequence 07:09 <@preaction> so WWW::Mechanize or a series of getPage() 07:09 <+perlDreamer> each may work correctly, but may not call among themselves correctly 07:09 < PedersenMJ> For me, integration tests would be testing the interaction of two modules. 07:10 <+perlDreamer> there may be some integration level testing now, but it's purely by accident 07:12 <+perlDreamer> I'm looking forward to the new OSCON schedule coming out 07:17 <+perlDreamer> preaction: did you read my last dev post? Am I askin' for beatin? 07:18 <@preaction> with wrapper around getLineage? 07:18 <+perlDreamer> yeah 07:19 <@preaction> i agree, actually. getLineage should be the standard method to get assets that you don't know the assetId for 07:19 <+perlDreamer> it's just the potential performance hit, maybe I should try to quantify it 07:19 <@preaction> i prefer code maintainability over performance in most cases 07:20 <+perlDreamer> I think it will save us tons of time down the road 07:20 <@preaction> i mean, it's an extra little bit to do the logic to build the SQL, but the benefits of the encapsulation outweigh that imho 07:20 <+perlDreamer> yeah. Change it in 1 place, and it works everywhere 07:20 <@preaction> then you can do optimization from inside the getLineage and everything gets the benefit 07:20 <+perlDreamer> but because it's more code, it may never reach the speed of the pure SQL query 07:21 <+perlDreamer> he'll weigh in, then we'll do it 07:21 <+perlDreamer> there are other, bigger bugs to worry about anyway 07:21 <@preaction> but getLineage will survive database schema changes, when pure SQL queries probably won't 07:22 <+perlDreamer> I agree 07:24 <+perlDreamer> I'm guessing that the problems we're seeing in the Clipboard also exist in the Trash, and in their Workflow Activities, too. 07:24 <+perlDreamer> The RTE has 4-6 semi-related open bugs 07:24 <+perlDreamer> The calendar has a new batch of bugs 07:24 <+perlDreamer> plus there's the list we've been dragging around 07:25 <+perlDreamer> It's enough to make a dev nuts 07:25 * perlDreamer screams 07:25 <+perlDreamer> shriek, shriek 07:26 <@preaction> i'm lucky, i don't get to deal with core bugs, i'm doing client work ;) 07:26 <+perlDreamer> how's that coming? Did you make your deadline? 07:27 <@preaction> no, the client data migration tool screwed my dev box three times in a row 07:27 <@preaction> and the migration tool takes about 3-4 hours to run 07:27 <@preaction> so i started on other things while that was going 07:27 <+perlDreamer> that must be some set of data 07:28 <+perlDreamer> the whole webgui test set only takes 75 minutes to run on my laptop 07:28 <@preaction> i figured out that there's a niche for a sort of "Dumb Container" wobject, that acts simply as a way to display a list of whatever asset is contained inside it 07:28 <@preaction> there's about 26,000 users 07:28 <@preaction> that's the main thing i need to migrate each time 07:28 <+perlDreamer> For the Dumb Container, it's like the Folder or CS? 07:28 <@preaction> and every time i try to make a backup, so i don't have to re-run the migration 07:28 <@preaction> it dies 07:28 <@preaction> basically 07:29 <@preaction> you'd subclass the dumb container to tell it what asset it should allow, and then write the asset's getEditForm and getTemplateVars methods 07:29 <@preaction> i've written three apps in a row now, that are basically dumb containers that make their sub-assets do all the work 07:30 <@preaction> kind of like the Calendar 07:30 <+perlDreamer> It makes sense. 07:30 <@preaction> it's more of a dev item, the dumb container itself has no value 07:30 <+perlDreamer> It may let us start to specialize the CS instead of making it so generic, which would make JT happy 07:30 <+perlDreamer> He hates that it's gotten so big 07:30 <+perlDreamer> and slow 07:31 <@preaction> well, little value, it'd be possible to make it valuable by itself 07:33 <@preaction> yeah, the CS could be a subclass of this, allowed to contain Threads 07:33 <@preaction> it might obfuscate the code a bit 07:33 <+perlDreamer> but then you could have a specialized photo gallery, and a weblog 07:34 <+perlDreamer> instead of the monster CS that does everything 07:34 <@preaction> true enough, the main code being in the Dumb Container 07:35 <+perlDreamer> Hey! 07:36 <+perlDreamer> User.pm now has 100% coverage, except for the deprecated identifier method 07:36 <@preaction> sweet 07:36 <+perlDreamer> I found two bugs while writing tests for it tonight 07:36 <+perlDreamer> and added a new method to SQL.pm, quickScalar 07:37 <@preaction> gets the first element of the first row of a query? 07:37 <+perlDreamer> yup 07:37 <+perlDreamer> that was one of the bugs that I found in User.pm 07:37 <@preaction> very good idea, too much my ($result) = $db->quickArray("query"); 07:37 <@preaction> there's a lot of that in the code 07:37 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 07:38 <+perlDreamer> plus, now you can do things that were broken like this: 07:38 <+perlDreamer> if (!exists $self->{_profile}{$fieldName} && !$self->session->db->quickArray("SELECT COUNT(*) FROM userProfileField WHERE fieldName = ?", [$fieldName])) 07:38 <+perlDreamer> safely 07:38 <+perlDreamer> the array always had 1 element in it, so in scalar context that part of the conditional was always true 07:39 <@preaction> yeah, i don't like the idea of that SQL query inside the IF conditional :p, cleaner to assign it to a var and test it afterward 07:39 <@preaction> but i see your point 07:40 <+perlDreamer> probably more PBP as well 07:40 <+perlDreamer> I remember thinking about that and convincing myself that it was better to do it this way.... 07:41 <+perlDreamer> oh, I remember 07:41 <+perlDreamer> inside the conditional, it only does the query if the profile field doesn't exist 07:42 <@preaction> if you put it as the first line inside the conditional, it's the same thing? 07:42 <+perlDreamer> via nesting? yes 07:42 <@preaction> rather, after the ) { 07:43 <+perlDreamer> I see what you mean, now 07:48 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui 08:28 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""""] 08:43 -!- Radix__ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit ["Windows doesn't have users, it has hostages."] 08:53 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 09:07 -!- Hinrik is now known as Hinrik\ 09:07 -!- Hinrik\ is now known as Hinrik 09:35 -!- todor_k [n=wgGuest9@zen.ecocoms.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:47 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 09:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 10:08 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:15 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 11:23 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:10 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 12:24 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:37 < TheSeparator> Looks like Spectre on the Plainblack.com server is on strike... 13:41 < TheSeparator> no new posts appear 13:49 -!- Hinrik_ is now known as Hinrik 16:29 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 16:29 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 16:30 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 16:30 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 16:32 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #webgui [] 19:05 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@sbserver.sunsetpres.org] has joined #webgui 19:05 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 19:51 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@sbserver.sunsetpres.org] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:11 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:00 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 21:14 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:16 -!- Hinrik_ is now known as Hinrik --- Day changed Mon Mar 05 2007 01:17 -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction 01:17 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 01:48 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 03:28 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: ckotil 03:29 -!- Netsplit over, joins: ckotil 04:04 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 04:05 < PedersenMJ> heya 04:21 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 04:22 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 04:22 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 04:25 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 04:26 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 05:08 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 05:25 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:05 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 06:52 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui 07:00 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Xirc - MacOSX"] 10:11 -!- php-freak [i=tdd1984@74-133-97-232.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui 10:11 < php-freak> is this a xampp channel? 10:11 < Hinrik> why would you think that? 10:23 -!- php-freak [i=tdd1984@74-133-97-232.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [] 12:07 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:46 -!- wgGuest16 [n=wgGuest1@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui 12:52 -!- wgGuest16 [n=wgGuest1@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has quit [] 14:07 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:31 -!- pjesi [n=pjesi@nix.is] has joined #webgui 15:20 < Hinrik> how does one make a package? 15:21 < Hinrik> the only think I see is a "Make package?" question under the metadata tab with a yes/no radio button 15:44 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@242.sub-75-206-99.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 15:54 < pjesi> what if you select @yes@ 15:56 < Hinrik> nm 15:57 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 15:57 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 15:57 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:58 < SDuensin> Good morning! 16:08 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 16:11 < Hinrik> hm, when I try to export a package I created, it just gives me: 16:11 < Hinrik> The requested URL /uploads/temp/JN/JNVATRUgdbd70zMSEkKpLw was not found on this server. 16:11 < Hinrik> it's not a permission problem, this file simply wasn't created 16:12 < Hinrik> if I create the package again, I get the same, just a different URL 16:24 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:50 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 17:50 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 18:01 < snapcount_> Bueller 18:01 < snapcount_> Bueller 18:01 < snapcount_> Bueller 18:01 <@preaction> He's home sick 18:01 < snapcount_> Hinrik: check your error logs, they will guide you to the answers you seek 18:02 < Hinrik> yeah... --- Log opened Mon Mar 05 18:59:09 2007 18:59 -!- xdanger [i=xdanger@217.112.244.70] has joined #webgui 18:59 -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 11 normal] 18:59 -!- Irssi: Join to #webgui was synced in 3 secs 19:11 <+perlDreamer> getAssetsInClipboard really wants to be a class method 19:18 <+perlDreamer> Is anyone else able to use the newly updated Weather Asset? 19:26 < ckotil> havent tried. 19:26 < ckotil> i could check it out, if you want me to 19:26 < ckotil> im not doing anything else really 19:26 < ckotil> just waiting for workflows to cook off 19:27 <+perlDreamer> Please give it a shot 19:27 <+perlDreamer> I think there's a naming problem 19:28 <+perlDreamer> It has to be called Weather::Simple 19:28 <+perlDreamer> but it has to be installed as Weather::Com::Simple 19:28 < ckotil> i need to install htat. 19:28 < ckotil> first. 19:28 < ckotil> so what module am i installing ? 19:29 <+perlDreamer> Weather::Com::Simple 19:29 <+perlDreamer> perl -MCPAN -e shell 19:29 <+perlDreamer> force install Weather::Com::Simple 19:29 < ckotil> got it 19:30 <+perlDreamer> It has a poorly written test that assumes that this year is 2005, that's why the force 19:31 -!- wgGuest46 [n=wgGuest4@user-24-214-222-222.knology.net] has joined #webgui 19:31 < ckotil> is the new weather asset enabled by default? 19:32 <+perlDreamer> I think so 19:32 < ckotil> k. i need to register somewhere right? 19:32 <+perlDreamer> webgui.conf 19:35 < ckotil> ok, is there an article i can read to see what i gotta do? 19:35 <+perlDreamer> just become admin and turn on admin 19:35 < ckotil> well yeah 19:35 <+perlDreamer> if you can deploy it, it will show up in the admin bar 19:36 < ckotil> i add it and commit and it disappears. 19:36 < ckotil> i didnt configure it in webgui.conf bc i dunno wtf to do 19:36 <+perlDreamer> You just add WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData to your assets 19:36 <+perlDreamer> that's all the config 19:36 < ckotil> o 19:36 < ckotil> i thought we had to register with some www to retrieve info 19:37 < ckotil> well im to the point where i add it from the new content bar 19:37 < ckotil> commit. 19:37 < ckotil> dissapeared 19:38 <+perlDreamer> which WebGUI are you running? 19:38 < ckotil> .10 19:38 < ckotil> i can move to .11 if you need me to. im working this on my dev box 19:38 <+perlDreamer> yeah, that would be good 19:38 <+perlDreamer> this new code was added in .11 19:39 < ckotil> k 19:41 < ckotil> no weather data asset now 19:41 < ckotil> and that line is in my conf 19:41 < snapcount_> perlDreamer: thx for all the bug work you've been up to lately 19:42 <+perlDreamer> you're welcome 19:42 <+perlDreamer> I'm bored to tears at work 19:42 <+perlDreamer> No projects for 7 weeks now 19:42 <+perlDreamer> without wG, I'd be a wreck 19:42 < snapcount_> yay for