--- Log opened Thu Mar 01 00:00:52 2007
00:01 <+perlDreamer> I could use a little help with a debug. Is there someone in channel with IE7 and willing to help?
00:10 <@rizen> i don't have IE 7, but i'm willing to help
00:10 <@rizen> =)
00:10 <@rizen> i can download it, but i have to leave in 10 minutes..so it will have to wait until either really late tonight or tomorrow
00:11 < pjesi> why do you need ie7?
00:12 <+perlDreamer> I was demo'ing WebGUI to a potential customer this morning with IE7 and the demo site was completely broken.
00:12 <+perlDreamer> It works fine with Mozilla.
00:12 <+perlDreamer> So I'd like a double check before submitting a bug
00:13 <@rizen> steve and frank told me they went through all of webgui and fixed everything ie7 related
00:13 < pjesi> submit the bug to microsoft
00:13 <+perlDreamer> pjesi: that's funny
00:13 < pjesi> well it is their product that is broken
00:13 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I think there are open IE7 bugs on the board
00:14 < pjesi> perlDreamer: is it specific to the demo template?
00:14 <+perlDreamer> pjesi: I don't know
00:15 <+perlDreamer> I beat a hasty retreat, blamed it on release day, and scheduled another meeting next week.
00:17 < pjesi> I have always made sure firefox is available on the presentation computer on meetings
00:17 <+perlDreamer> It was a spur of the moment thing.
00:17 <@preaction> perlDreamer: what about the demo site is broken in IE7?
00:18 <+perlDreamer> I created a demo site and tried to login as admin.
00:18 <+perlDreamer> It kicked me back to the demo create screen.
00:18 <@preaction> k, i just tried that and it worked
00:18 <@preaction> might've been a release thing, when did you do it?
00:19 <+perlDreamer> 8:45am PST
00:19 <@preaction> so 11:45a roy's time
00:19 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I was thinking of the IE6 and "IE and Firefox" bugs. IE7 is clean on the boards
00:19 <+perlDreamer> preaction: yup
00:20 <@preaction> you might've been doing it while the demo sites were being updated
00:22 <+perlDreamer> I'll bring my laptop to the next one, just in case.
01:01 <@preaction> is the empty style supposed to include and the proper head tags?
01:05 <+perlDreamer> I remember coming across that during testing.
01:05 <+perlDreamer> let me check
01:05 <@preaction> it doesn't, but is it supposed to?
01:06 <@preaction> i'm thinking no, that you use the empty style when you generate the entire html doc yourself (or RSS, or otherwise)
01:06 <+perlDreamer> or when embedding in javascript windows, ala FormHelpers
01:10 <+perlDreamer> Have you seen the bug about groupIdEventEdit?
01:11 <+perlDreamer> I think it's actually an opinion. What do you think?
01:12 <@preaction> haven't seen it
01:13 <@preaction> actually, groupIdEventEdit was set to the groupIdEdit of the Calendar
01:13 <@preaction> they can change it. that's the idea
01:14 <+perlDreamer> the bug is that it was set to 3 instead of groupIdEdit
01:14 <@preaction> wait, it's groupIdEventEdit that got changed?
01:15 <@preaction> ohhh, it's from the 7.2.3-7.3.0 upgrade
01:15 <+perlDreamer> bug already fixed?
01:16 <@preaction> no, i believe that it is explicitly set to "3", let me check
01:17 <@preaction> looks like it isn't explicitly set to anything, but defaults to "3"
01:18 <+perlDreamer> sidenote: I added a test to Style.t that explicitly checks for html, head and body tags in the empty style template.
01:18 <@preaction> one-line fix: $properties->{groupIdEventEdit} = $properties->{groupIdEdit}; # line 238 of docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.2.3-7.3.0.pl
01:18 <+perlDreamer> now it will be guaranteed to let us know it changes.
01:18 <+perlDreamer> I'll commit the fix and try to run an upgrade.
01:18 <@preaction> so it succeeds when there ISNT right? because i think i use the empty style on a bunch of ajax stuff that returns JSON
01:19 <+perlDreamer> unlike($styled, qr{(?i)?(html|head|body)>}, 'useEmptyStyle does not have html, head or body tags');
01:19 <@preaction> word
01:19 <+perlDreamer> it's a pretty simplistic check, but it gets the idea across
01:20 <@preaction> i did a lot of that sort of checking with the output of getPage
01:20 <@preaction> though i do think in the future we should make a nice getPageAsHTMLTokeParser (or something similar) that returns a proper HTML parsing object
01:21 <+perlDreamer> I noticed that you used the same IO tied variable thing that I did. It doesn't work before perl 5.8, though
01:21 <@preaction> nope
01:21 <@preaction> but webgui requires 5.8
01:21 <@preaction> before 5.8 you can use the IO::String (i think, or IO::Scalar, one or the other)
01:21 <+perlDreamer> where does it say that we require 5.8? That's new to me.
01:22 <+perlDreamer> I like it, but I was working under the assumption people would still use earlier perl's
01:22 <@preaction> http://www.plainblack.com/installing_webgui <- maybe testEnvironment.pl should "require v5.8.8"
01:24 <+perlDreamer> your 1-line fix, is that modifying an existing line or adding a line?
01:24 <@preaction> adding a line
01:24 <@preaction> should be right under a couple other $properties changes
01:25 <@preaction> er, crap
01:25 <@preaction> no, wait, that'll work
01:25 <+perlDreamer> I'll download and install a 7.2 and then try an upgrade.
01:26 <+perlDreamer> I think it will work,too, but I've been bitten too many times recently to not test anymore.
01:26 <@preaction> true nuff
01:42 <+perlDreamer> dude, you did the world a service by rewriting the calendar
01:50 <+perlDreamer> um, preaction, will it upgrade calendar with no events?
02:06 <@preaction> it should
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02:18 < pjesi> damn head.block
02:18 < pjesi> !!!
02:20 <+perlDreamer> pjesi, if you can build a test for it that shows it's a bug, I'll fix it
02:21 < pjesi> perlDreamer: it is so nondeterministic
02:21 < pjesi> I cant figure it out
02:22 <+perlDreamer> so it's working sometimes, in some cases, but not in others?
02:23 < pjesi> yes
02:24 < pjesi> last time it didnt show at all, yesterday it was twice within
, later it was correctly only in , now it is only in body
02:25 <@preaction> same asset? which asset type? a page layout (if so, what assets does it contain?)
02:26 < pjesi> Layout.pm
02:26 < pjesi> it contains a whole site
02:27 < pjesi> sorry, it is the head block of the Layout template
02:27 <@preaction> i'm just saying, there are a lot of ways to put head tags up there, and there's one correct way. some of the assets in the Layout might be putting things up there in the wrong way
02:28 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I think he's saying he has a headblock for the layout template, and that info (not any child info) is showing up all over the place, twice or not at all
02:29 <@preaction> so in the Extra Head Tags part of the layout template, which should be put in the area that's handled by the style template?
02:30 < pjesi> sometimes the child info is displayed as well (rss link for example)
02:30 < pjesi> yes is in the Style
02:31 < pjesi> it sometimes prints them there
02:31 < pjesi> sometimes above the normal block
02:32 < pjesi> anyways, I managed to push Hinrik into fixing this
02:41 < pjesi> above normal block is at the top of
02:44 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I figured out what was going on with the upgrade. I short-circuited it and it broke the upgrade process quietly.
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03:10 < pjesi> it does look like it is injected in head.tags if I am not loged in
03:22 < SDuensin> WHOO HOO! My photo gallery is (mostly) working!
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03:39 < SDuensin> Anybody awake? I may be on the verge of a wiki article here.
03:43 < streamlines> I'm here, but likely to be of much use to you.
03:44 < SDuensin> Never know. I just need the name of a template variable. Can't seem to find it...
03:44 < SDuensin> I uploaded a file and changed the menu title field. When I use file.menuTitle, it's blank...
03:44 < SDuensin> If I use menuTitle by itself, I get the title of the folder the file is in.
03:45 < SDuensin> I want to get the menuTitle of the file from inside a template for the parent folder. (This is for a photo gallery.)
03:45 < SDuensin> Make sense?
03:45 < streamlines> Sorry, SDuensin, I'm just getting into WG, still readning literature and figuring stuff out. WQish I could be more helpful.
03:45 < SDuensin> Me too. :-)
03:46 < SDuensin> WebGUI rocks. It's just big. Takes awhile to find everything.
03:46 < streamlines> yup. I'm a tech, and knowenough perl, but yeah, WebGUI is BIG/
03:47 < SDuensin> "Enough Perl" == "Live Bomb" :-)
03:48 < streamlines> that's exactly right. enuff to cause MAJOR issues. just another hacker.
03:48 < streamlines> how long you been using WG?
03:49 < SDuensin> I'm getting back into it. I used the 5.x series for a lot of sites. Had issues with 6.x and my server. Now I'm back. :-D
03:49 < streamlines> wow. where'd you go?
03:49 < SDuensin> Let me tell you... 7.x is a LOT different from 5.x. Very impressive.
03:50 < streamlines> so you coming back from PHPland?
03:50 <@preaction> SDuensin: it's possible the Image asset doesn't have a menuTitle for some reason. you might want to also try title
03:50 < SDuensin> I've run a lot of other content systems since then. Never happy with any of them.
03:50 < SDuensin> preaction - Isn't file.title the filename?
03:50 < streamlines> any perl-based?
03:50 <@preaction> durned if i know, haven't been inside the Image asset yet
03:51 < SDuensin> No, streamlines. Perl was the problem. My host didn't have hardly any modules installed and my personal server didn't have the bandwidth I needed.
03:51 < SDuensin> preaction - Let me commit my version and show you what I have. I think you'll like it.
03:51 <@preaction> Perl is too awesome for its own good
03:51 < SDuensin> preaction (and streamlines) - take a peek: http://new.duensing.com:2080/home/gallery/rylee/snow
03:51 < streamlines> ahhh....so did you eventuall change hosts? I wonder how many others have that issue a a block to using WG?
03:52 < SDuensin> New host, and more bandwidth on my personal connection. I can run from either of them now.
03:53 <@preaction> the little loading bar thingy doesn't like me :(
03:53 < SDuensin> ?
03:53 <@preaction> i click an image, and the loading bar shows up, but the image doesn't seem to load
03:54 < SDuensin> What browser?
03:54 < streamlines> I've gotta hop a firewall to get to see port 2080 too. That may be why.
03:54 <@preaction> Firefox 2.0.0.1 Intel Mac
03:54 < streamlines> that's why I still dont see anything :-). I'll fix mine.
03:54 < SDuensin> Well, hell, that's what I have. :-)
03:54 < SDuensin> Do you see the coat-of-arms above the menu? (Coat-of-arms == shield thing.)
03:55 <@preaction> i see the coat of arms, but no menu
03:55 < SDuensin> !!!!
03:55 <@preaction> i'm also a Visitor
03:55 < SDuensin> Weiiiiirrd.
03:55 <@preaction> that might be the problem
03:55 < SDuensin> Crap. Menu fixed.
03:56 < SDuensin> For some bizarre reason, it was set to "Ad Managers".
03:56 <@preaction> that happens when it's not set
03:57 < SDuensin> I bet I got a lot more screwed up then.
03:57 <@preaction> oh: to make the rows have a uniform height: surround them in a div that has a height of the maximum height of your thumbnails
03:58 < SDuensin> Yea. Any way to pull that from a variable?
03:58 <@preaction> the clicking works, it just took longer than i anticipated
03:59 <@preaction> umm.... not that i'm aware of
03:59 < SDuensin> Maybe my pipe is clogged. Dang users!
03:59 <@preaction> someone's clogging the intertubes?
03:59 < streamlines> hmm...same problem on my end. Image 10 of 16 works though. odd. I
03:59 < streamlines> noticed some did and some didn't (some == atleast one). c
04:00 * SDuensin blames his LAN.
04:00 < streamlines> clicked around more and no others workd.
04:00 < SDuensin> Only 10 worked?
04:00 < streamlines> didn't click all thumbs thoh.
04:00 < SDuensin> Nothing different about 10.
04:00 <@preaction> i got number 9
04:01 < streamlines> number 10 of 16. popped up the thingy where you can click next to nav to others.
04:01 < streamlines> Ah. so maybe his pipe really is clogged.
04:01 < streamlines> bu nav to tohers from the thingy (next / prev) didnt work either.
04:01 < SDuensin> Dunno.
04:02 < SDuensin> Sounds like clogged pipes.
04:02 <@preaction> i assume tey work, just slowly
04:02 <@preaction> is the thumbnail size a site setting?
04:02 <@preaction> imma try to make a patch
04:02 < SDuensin> For that test gallery, I didn't size those images at all. They're around 2 megapixel and the script scales 'em.
04:02 < SDuensin> I think it's a site setting.
04:03 < SDuensin> Yes. Admin->Settings->Content
04:04 <@preaction> but it can, unfortunately, be overridden per image
04:04 < SDuensin> Yea. I know.
04:04 < streamlines> you trust a script to resize on the fly? what processor---oh yseah, macintel. nevermind
04:05 < SDuensin> I don't trust it. I just know it does it. When this site goes live, I'll scale them myself.
04:05 <@preaction> it's probably just setting a width/height in the CSS
04:05 < SDuensin> That's my guess, preaction.
04:05 < streamlines> ah.. .sorr. maybe some loop in the resize script? preaction got 9 and I got 10 ok? still having trouble loading any others.
04:06 <@preaction> they just take 30 seconds about
04:06 < streamlines> preaction, you getting em all now?
04:06 <@preaction> i'm up to 11
04:06 <@preaction> 12...
04:07 < streamlines> oohhh. sorry. I need to keep quiet. and look at my other monotors every now and again. sorry again. Loading fine as you said.
04:08 < SDuensin> hehehe
04:08 < streamlines> (slink, slink). lurk lurk.
04:09 < streamlines> I'll just go read my BRAND NEW wegui primer book. Amazing how much isn't obvious.
04:09 < SDuensin> Looks like a variable won't help anyway. You can't add in a template thingie, so there's no way to include the margin.
04:09 < SDuensin> I didn't buy the primer. Got the subscription to the docs.
04:10 < streamlines> yeah, got that too. we should wiki article....
04:11 < SDuensin> I want to wiki this gallery after I get it sorted out.
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04:13 < streamlines> I haven't had time to get the BIG picture from the subscription. All is still a bit fuzzy to me. BEst thing in to dive in and test and hack.
04:13 < streamlines> Then feel fuzzy enough to share via wiki.
04:18 < SDuensin> Whoa. I have a template I can't edit. Every time I click "Edit" it acts like I did "View".
04:24 < SDuensin> Grrr. Tried all I can think of. Restarting WebGUI now. Hope that fixes it!
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04:28 < SDuensin> That fixed it. Weird.
04:33 < SDuensin> Ok, just need to find that template variable for the menuTitle.
04:40 < SDuensin> Anybody? Anybody? Buelher?
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04:58 <@preaction> SDuensin: i think menuTitle is a Wobject property, and Image is only an Asset
04:58 < SDuensin> That hurts my head.
04:58 < SDuensin> Why does it have a field for it then?
04:59 <@preaction> nm, menuTitle is in Asset
04:59 <@preaction> perhaps it's getting clobbered somehow?
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05:01 < SDuensin> I have no idea. It's inside a loop.
05:37 < Radix-wrk> So were PedersenMJ and my entries the only ones for the wcc - haven't seen any additions to the wiki at all :(
05:38 < SDuensin> I didn't have time to write my photo gallery entry. :-(
05:40 <@preaction> Radix-wrk: there's still 2 hours 20 minutes in the month of February ;)
05:41 < Radix-wrk> Depends what time zone you're in I guess - but even still I'd have expected people to have added something by now
05:41 <@preaction> yeah, i'm thinking no
05:42 < Radix-wrk> Just a bit sad that there was only two of us who contributed. :(
05:42 <@preaction> steve just tapped me for some perl code to add to the design for http://webgui.org, so hopefully after the split we have less people saying that WebGUI is Plain Black
05:43 < Radix-wrk> cool
05:43 <@preaction> plus as evidenced in the IRC channel, the community is re-growing
05:43 < Radix-wrk> yup.. was only two others in here when I started! :)
05:43 < Radix-wrk> and neither of them said anything!
05:44 <@preaction> yeah, back in the good ol' days
05:44 < Radix-wrk> hehe
05:44 <@preaction> well, maybe not so good
05:45 < SDuensin> I still want to write my wiki entry. Just need to figure a few more things out.
05:45 < SDuensin> Unfortunately, it's not going to happen in two hours and 15 minutes.
05:45 <@preaction> eh, i imagine it ends when Roy reads his mail in the morning, so go ahead and submit, and maybe you'll be grandfathered in
05:46 < Radix-wrk> this with the photo gallery template that rizen gave you the other day? or something new since then?
05:46 < SDuensin> I can't finish it tonight. :-/
05:46 < SDuensin> It's built off what he gave me.
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05:46 < SDuensin> http://new.duensing.com:2080/home/gallery/rylee/snow
05:46 < SDuensin> My connection seems to be slow tonight, and the images need resized. Give it time when you click on one.
05:46 <@preaction> and unfortunately, i just learned my frypan needs to warm up far more in order to cook proper stirfry
05:47 <@preaction> i blame the fact that i haven't cooked chinese in a while
05:47 < Radix-wrk> electric wok ftw!
05:48 < SDuensin> Like that gallery?
05:48 < Radix-wrk> I have a very nice, deep electric wok (2400w) that is great for instant stirfry.. heats up REAL quick and perfect for all sorts.. tis cool
05:49 <@preaction> something i might need to look into
05:49 < Radix-wrk> my stove sucks, so I tend to use the wok for all sorts of stuff.. pasta, curries, etc
05:50 < Radix-wrk> SDuensin, neat!
05:50 < Radix-wrk> Did you check out that SlideShowPro link I posted the other day?
05:50 < Radix-wrk> Kinda similar in some ways except that one is all flash.
05:50 < SDuensin> Yea. Looked cool. Didn't look free though. (I've been on a hell of an OSS kick lately.)
05:51 < Radix-wrk> nah.. definitely not free
05:51 < SDuensin> It did look good though!
05:51 < Radix-wrk> and yeah, this one looks awesome if it's free
05:51 < SDuensin> This is really easy. Just toss images into a folder asset and assign the gallery template.
05:52 < SDuensin> It's even smart enough to work out multiple galleries on one page and set up the paging for them.
05:52 < SDuensin> I just wish I knew how to get to the menuTitle field of the image assets!
05:52 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. you know what would really rock.. a webgui object that interfaces/links to a flickr set or something as they do have a full api I'm pretty sure
05:53 < SDuensin> That wouldn't be too hard, I wouldn't think.
05:53 < SDuensin> I'm not much for hosting my content elsewhere. That's why I was looking to do it all with WebGUI.
05:57 < SDuensin> Anyway, I'll ask more weird template questions tomorrow when more people are here.
05:57 < SDuensin> Night!
05:58 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, it's hard for us aussies tho.. upload bandwidth is so limited here (1mbit max prettymuch without forking out a fortune) and it's slow for the rest of the world to boot. We can get away with hosting the images ourselves (providing they're not large ones) off our 1mbit uplink - but everything else, larger files, movies, downloads, pdfs, etc all have to go on external hosting for us or our net link is cactus
06:17 < patspam> what's the proper way to update groupIdView on an asset through the API?
06:17 <@preaction> $asset->update({ groupIdView => "newValue" });
06:17 <@preaction> unless you want to make a new revision
06:18 < patspam> ah great, thanks
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10:52 < Hinrik> http://paste2.org/p/1605
10:52 < Hinrik> how do I fix this?
10:52 < Hinrik> /data is a symlink to /usr/local/data btw...
10:53 < Hinrik> most non-ascii characters come out wrong
10:53 < Hinrik> this is all supposed to be set to utf8
10:54 < Hinrik> it looks right if I start the client with --default-character-set=utf8, but that should be the default...
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15:58 < pjesi_> hi guys
15:59 < pjesi_> I was asked to add a discussion board to the site but it doesnt show any controls
15:59 < pjesi_> so I tried the CS
16:00 < pjesi_> it doesnt generate any html
16:00 < pjesi_> any ideas?
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17:12 <@snapcount> woo hoo... vpn time
17:12 <@snapcount> back later
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18:49 < ckotil> How could i programmatically migrate Faq-o-matic entries to webgui , without writing a custom import script?
18:49 <@rizen> you realize that what you just stated is an oxymoron right?
18:49 <@rizen> how can i program without programming?
18:50 * ckotil sighs
18:50 < ckotil> yes.
18:50 <@rizen> i have one way you could do it
18:50 < ckotil> im all ears.
18:50 <@rizen> you could have someone else do the programming for you
18:50 <@rizen> that way *you* didn't do any programming
18:51 < ckotil> thats a technicality
18:51 <@rizen> it's my only suggestiong
18:51 <@rizen> minus the g
18:51 < ckotil> k.
18:51 <@rizen> does SQL count as programming?
18:51 < ckotil> yes.
18:51 <@rizen> k
18:51 <@rizen> no suggestions then
18:52 < ckotil> i might try to write something to crawl the FOM grab the text and create webgui assets
18:52 < ckotil> id rather not do this by hand. (enter all the FOM entries into wG)
18:53 <@rizen> that counts as programming
18:54 < ckotil> indeed it does. i was just asking if there were a way to do it wihtout programming
18:54 < ckotil> or if a script already existed
18:55 < ckotil> crythias uses FOM for his webgui faq
18:55 < ckotil> and theres a question. why not use webgui for the faq.
18:55 < ckotil> to which there is not a good answer.
18:55 <@rizen> he has an answer for that in his faq
18:55 < ckotil> oh, i should reread it then.
18:55 <+MrHairgrease> his provider doesn't allow webgui
18:55 < ckotil> my group just decided to give up the FOM to use webgui
18:55 < ckotil> oh :x hehe
18:56 <@rizen> that isn't the only reason
18:56 <@rizen> nor is it the reason he gives in his faq
18:56 < ckotil> so i setup the file/knowledge repository structure in webgui.
18:56 <+MrHairgrease> let me read the faq then
18:56 <@rizen> in the faq he says something like: i didn't expect to stay with webgui very long
18:56 < ckotil> i use shortcut assets in a few places for redundancy. it has come together quiet nicely, and is starting to fill up with content
18:56 < ckotil> ah.
18:57 < ckotil> navigation assets 0wn me. they are a life saver
18:59 <@rizen> nice to hear, many people say they are the bane of their existience
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19:09 < ckotil> at first they were.
19:09 < ckotil> now i make them my bitch
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20:09 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: For your FAQ-o-matic, you could HttpProxy it in, but that's a workaround
20:11 <+perlDreamer> preaction: re SDuensin's folder problems, the Folder only gives you a limited set of child Asset properties.
20:11 <+perlDreamer> It's a bummer
20:11 <@preaction> is it an RFE? i'll pump in some karma
20:12 <+perlDreamer> menuTitle is not in the list
20:12 <+perlDreamer> It would be like a 10 second hack.
20:12 <@preaction> it's easier to get the full gamut than it is to restrict :p
20:12 <+perlDreamer> well, yes and no
20:12 <+perlDreamer> $asset->get vs $asset->getTemplateVars is a whole world of difference
20:13 <@preaction> $asset->get gets menuTitle
20:14 <+perlDreamer> yes, plus it gets every base Asset property, every base Wobject property and every specific Asset/Wobject property.
20:14 <+perlDreamer> We couldn't document that in the generic way that it is now.
20:14 <@preaction> wait, there is a base WebGUI::Asset::getTemplateVars?
20:14 <+perlDreamer> no
20:14 <@preaction> ok
20:15 <+perlDreamer> yes, kind of
20:15 <+perlDreamer> every template in the end does $asset->get and appends it to the template vars passed in.
20:15 <+perlDreamer> (top-level asset template, not child level template vars)
20:16 <+perlDreamer> If every asset had a getTemplateVars, like the oh-so well designed Event and Calendar, it would make sub-classing them possible.
20:16 <+perlDreamer> and testing them easier
20:16 <+perlDreamer> and adding tertiary interfaces possible (think SOAP/WSDL, etc.)
20:16 <@preaction> true enough
20:17 <+perlDreamer> I guess what I'm saying is that we could file a bug report for the missing menuTitle and get it in now, and then talk with the big guy about larger interfaces in 7.4
20:19 <@preaction> using getTemplateVars as the way to get the base template vars of the asset that are general to every www_ method in the asset
20:19 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I need a bug consult. I fixed half of a bug but need to know how to correct things that the bug has already broken.
20:23 <+perlDreamer> preaction:are you saying every www_ method in Asset, or just in Event and Calendar?
20:25 <@preaction> i don't know. it fits for Event because of the processing involved with the dates, but for something like a Folder, $asset->get works fine
20:25 <@preaction> of course, WebGUI::Asset::getTemplateVars could just return $self->get; and let the child classes add to that
20:26 <+perlDreamer> ah, I alluded to that earlier
20:26 <+perlDreamer> ->get and -getTemplateVariables are worlds apart
20:26 <@preaction> that's what i was thinkng you were getting at
20:26 <+perlDreamer> yeah
20:26 <+perlDreamer> ->get would meet 90% of most people's needs
20:26 <+perlDreamer> but also contains yards of Asset cruft
20:27 <+perlDreamer> assetIds, templateIds, groupIds, etc.
20:27 <+perlDreamer> users will want asset names, template names and group names
20:27 <+perlDreamer> that requires getTemplateVars
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20:47 < ckotil> pd: ive deleted every http proxy asset on my site
20:47 < ckotil> it was causing apache to blow up. spiked the cpu and filled up the memory and swap
20:47 < ckotil> web crawlers were pulling down our rrd files
20:47 < ckotil> remember, the funky characters hitting my logs.
20:48 < ckotil> id like to go back to using http proxy asset bc its really nice to get that content inline with the rest of my site
20:56 < ckotil> What's this import script xtopher is using?
20:56 < ckotil> importing content from static sites. i might be able to use that for my FOM entries
21:07 <@rizen> pd, i'm back
21:08 <@rizen> i guess i should say perlDreamer so that it actually makes a sound for you
21:19 <+perlDreamer> I'm here
21:19 <+perlDreamer> You remember the file upload bug from 2-3 days ago?
21:19 <@rizen> i'm not
21:19 <+perlDreamer> oh
21:19 <@rizen> just kidding
21:20 <@rizen> yes
21:20 <+perlDreamer> the bug is fixed, but now people have images with no thumbnails
21:20 <+perlDreamer> should we script a solution for that?
21:20 <@rizen> there's already one
21:20 <@rizen> thumbnailer.pl comes with webgui
21:21 <@rizen> although, you could add a --flag to it
21:21 <@rizen> to only generate thumbs for images that don't have them
21:22 <+perlDreamer> the only side effect I see to that is ZipArchives may upload images, and they'd get thumbnails created in there, but that's not bad
21:22 <+perlDreamer> I'll post that as the response to the bug and add it to the gotchas
21:23 <@rizen> yeah, they'd get them, but it shouldn't affect them
21:23 <@rizen> so i think we're good
21:23 <+perlDreamer> thanks
21:23 <+perlDreamer> is there a general threshold/metric for deciding when to create scripts to fix stuff like this versus not?
21:23 <@rizen> did i do something deserving thanks?
21:23 <+perlDreamer> yes
21:24 <+perlDreamer> you decided whether this should have more work done on it
21:24 <@rizen> generally speaking we should try to fix stuff directly in the upgrade when possible and practical
21:24 <@rizen> in this case, adding the thumbnailer to the upgrade is possible but not practical
21:24 <@rizen> because it will slow down the upgrade considerably
21:25 <@rizen> and my guess is that most people don't care about the thumbnails or we would have had a lot more people raising a big stink about it
21:31 <+perlDreamer> The thumbnailer script doesn't use Getopts for command line arguments. Can I convert it to add the flag?
21:35 < ckotil> http://www.plainblack.com/uploads/3C/X7/3CX7ekuCh7O6SuhqPNj-gQ/IIPImportSites_poland_pl.txt @ $myfolder , im confused at the difference in templateId and styleTemplateId
21:35 < ckotil> at $myfolder , im confused at the difference in templateId and styleTemplateId
21:36 <+perlDreamer> templateId is whatever local/asset specific template the asset uses to display itself. The view method.
21:37 <+perlDreamer> styleTemplate is there so that when you visit an Asset directly (via its url), it gets the style template for the site.
21:37 <+perlDreamer> does that help?
21:37 < ckotil> ya , got it. thanks pd
21:40 <@rizen> pd: yes
21:40 <@rizen> that's one of the very first utility scripts i ever wrote for webgui
21:41 <@rizen> so i'm sure it could use some TLC
21:41 <@rizen> gotta reboot..brb
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21:44 < ckotil> pd im still confused actually...
21:44 < ckotil> im inside..
21:44 < ckotil> my $page = $parent->addChild({
21:44 < ckotil> className=>'WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Layout',
21:45 < ckotil> and i see
21:45 < ckotil> templateId=>"ahG2dUzE0GrK2kHWt6Qxdw",
21:45 < ckotil> styleTemplateId=>$templateID,
21:45 < ckotil> why would styleTemplateId match templateId
21:45 < ckotil> shouldnt styleTemplateId be the sites style?
21:46 < ckotil> im about to just go through with it on my dev box,a nd see what happens. ive already got a backup ready
21:47 < ckotil> oh. nvm
21:47 < ckotil> templateId must be different from $templateId
21:48 <+perlDreamer> bad variable naming convention
21:48 <+perlDreamer> it probably should have been called $styleTemplateId instead of $templateId
21:48 <+perlDreamer> One way to check it is to go find the template associated with that Id and check it's template namespace
21:49 < ckotil> ya i didnt that for article, and it checked out pbltmpl0000002.
21:51 <+perlDreamer> huh?
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21:54 < ckotil> i dunno
21:54 < ckotil> here goes nothing.
21:54 * ckotil crosses his fingers
21:55 <@rizen> cut the blue wire!!!
21:56 * perlDreamer points out that rizen is color blind
22:01 <+perlDreamer> Alas, poor ckotil. We knew him well
22:06 <@rizen> he must have died
22:06 <@rizen> not a single reply in over 10 minutes
22:08 <+perlDreamer> You sure about that blue wire?
22:12 <@rizen> hmmm...i could have been mistaken
22:12 <@rizen> it might have been the green wire
22:16 < ckotil> im just frustrated
22:17 < ckotil> im getting 'cannot open config file: at ....../WebGUI/Config.pm line 350, line 225
22:18 <+perlDreamer> the scripts usually accept a bare config file name, without path
22:18 <+perlDreamer> also check read access
22:18 < ckotil> im running as root.
22:18 < ckotil> at first i got this error...
22:18 <@rizen> and make sure you're spelling crap right
22:19 < ckotil> Couldn't parse JSON in config file ''
22:19 <@rizen> i'm a terrible typist so i always mistype
22:19 < ckotil> then i edited where it looks for the coonfig.
22:19 < ckotil> this is how it originially was. my $session = WebGUI::Session->open("../",$configFile);
22:19 < ckotil> i made it my $session = WebGUI::Session->open("../etc/",$configFile);
22:19 < ckotil> running from inside sbin
22:20 < ckotil> then i get the Config.pm error
22:20 <+perlDreamer> Session->open wants a WebGUI root directory
22:20 < ckotil> ok , so it was fine to begin with.
22:20 <+perlDreamer> I'd say the original error is true and you have bad JSON.
22:21 < ckotil> k
22:21 < ckotil> hrm, ive had this config since 6.99
22:28 <+perlDreamer> recently modified?
22:28 < ckotil> i think one my admins hacked it up a while back
22:29 < ckotil> im editing WebGUI.original.conf
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22:37 < ckotil> still couldnt parse JSON in config
22:41 <@snapcount> good lord, somehow I managed to burn this TV dinner
22:41 <@snapcount> still not too bad though...
22:46 < ckotil> hrm. my config has to be JSON
22:46 < ckotil> this script still isnt working for me. any ideas?
22:53 < ckotil> new plan of action
22:54 < ckotil> after realizing this script will not be the end all solution to my problem. i.e grab all the entries of the FOM and represent them as layouts and articles. i will instead use the fileImport script
22:54 < ckotil> and then deal with organizing hte mess of html files
22:54 < ckotil> as file assets. for now
22:57 <@preaction> snapcount: SYN?
22:57 <@snapcount> ack
23:09 < ckotil> yuck what a mess that is
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23:30 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: how about setting up a CS-based FAQ-o-matic?
23:31 <+perlDreamer> but that takes you back to the JSON stuff
23:32 <@preaction> i'm thinking that the error you're getting should have a filename in those '', otherwise i'm thinking that it's not getting the configuration filename
23:37 < ckotil> a CS-based FOM would be ideal. i think my group would go for that.
23:37 < ckotil> yah, he '' is suspect
23:37 < ckotil> s/he/the
23:38 <@preaction> Session->open($WEBGUI_ROOT, $PATH_TO_CONFIG); # $PATH_TO_CONFIG should include 'etc/' iirc. otherwise WebGUI::Session->open should probably include some more debug code for when it fatals like that
23:39 <@preaction> cannot parse JSON why? you know
23:39 < ckotil> beats me.
23:39 < ckotil> my conf is JSON. has to be.
23:39 <@preaction> check $! or $@ as appropriate
23:39 < ckotil> i even recreated it based on WebGUI.original.conf
23:40 <+perlDreamer> you don't need the ./etc
23:40 * ckotil nods
23:40 < ckotil> i removed it.
23:40 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI::Config adds is automatically
23:40 <+perlDreamer> that didn't help?
23:41 < ckotil> nope.
23:41 < ckotil> in the mean time i ran importFile.pl
23:41 < ckotil> that ran off just fine
23:45 <+perlDreamer> if you like, you can paste that part of your script for us to look at
23:47 < xdanger> my webgui installation isn't sending emails anymore... where should I start to look?
23:47 <+perlDreamer> spectre
23:47 < xdanger> it's running
23:47 <@preaction> mysql mailQueue table
23:47 < xdanger> smtp server is working
23:47 <@rizen> if you're running 7.3.10 or abovve
23:47 <@rizen> do
23:47 <@rizen> perl spectre.pl --status
23:48 <@rizen> and see if there's some stuff gummed up
23:48 <+perlDreamer> preaction: off the top of your head, do you remember the PBP for constructing booleans out of complex conditionals?
23:48 <@preaction> perlDreamer: nope
23:48 <+perlDreamer> k, thanks
23:48 < xdanger> rizen: I'm running 7.3.8
23:49 <@rizen> then do what perlDreamer suggested and look at what's in your mailQueue table
23:50 < ckotil> ill take it to the forums.
23:51 < ckotil> thanks guys
23:51 < xdanger> There's 8 mails, in the queue table...
23:52 <@rizen> and restarting spectre doesn't clear them out?
23:54 < xdanger> nope
23:55 <@rizen> then either you have some other workflow gumming up the works
23:55 <@rizen> check the running workflows screen in webgui
23:55 <@rizen> or your mail server isn't taking the mails
23:55 < xdanger> I was running spectre on --debug --run in screen... restarted that
23:55 <@rizen> check the webgui.log
23:55 < xdanger> nothing in the log
23:55 <@rizen> that's the amount of support i'm willing to give you
23:56 <+perlDreamer> rizen, that would make a great wiki article
23:56 < xdanger> There are 3-4 screens of Hourly Maintenance Tasks in showRunningWorkflows
23:56 <+perlDreamer> and would save you from asking all those questions every time to every spectre question
23:57 <@rizen> good luck with that pd
23:57 <@rizen> i don't write wiki articles
23:57 <@rizen> i write books that are for sale
23:57 <@rizen> and i have over 20 pages of troubleshooting material in that book i'm writing just on spectre
--- Day changed Fri Mar 02 2007
00:02 <+perlDreamer> roger that, rizen. Maybe I'll just copy and paste the most basic stuff from the IRC logs and then teach gooeybot a new trick.
00:03 <@preaction> step 1?
00:03 < gooeybot> step 1 is Check the error logs, both WebGUI and Apache.
00:05 < xdanger> spectre debug prints something like this: WORKFLOW: Was told to wait on PihhW8apdQ7RQeke0sTwHg because we're still waiting on some external event.
00:05 < xdanger> all the time
00:06 <+perlDreamer> preaction: can a mysql select statement be constructed to do the setting of groupIdEditEvent to groupIdEdit? It would require joining the tables and doing a revision subselect?
00:06 <@rizen> have you noticed that the irc channel has pretty much killed the dev mailing list?
00:07 <+perlDreamer> devs are impatient?
00:07 <@preaction> perlDreamer: update Calendar set groupIdEditEvent=(select groupIdEdit from assetData where assetData.assetId=Calendar.assetId); # maybe?
00:07 <@preaction> oh, forgot the revision subselect as well
00:08 <@preaction> might just be easier to update the current revision using API though
00:08 <+perlDreamer> yeah
00:08 <@preaction> rizen: i was thinking about mentioning something on the dev list about it, IRC is easier
00:09 <@preaction> and surprisingly it's populated almost 24/7, thanks to our aussie and euro cohorts
00:09 <@rizen> yeah, but it's also realtime
00:09 <@preaction> if someone's active ;)
00:09 <@rizen> which is a gift and a curse
00:11 <+perlDreamer> what's the curse part?
00:11 <+perlDreamer> not being able to queue up and respond to stuff?
00:12 <@rizen> the curse part is you have to be here to participate
00:12 <@rizen> technically you could read the logs...but unless you're dedicated you won't do that
00:13 <@rizen> the dev mailing list is organized by threads
00:13 <@rizen> and it's not real time
00:13 <@rizen> so you can participate in the discussion on your own time
00:13 <@rizen> and only follow the threads that are interesting to you
00:13 <@rizen> if you're not here and you read the logs
00:13 <@rizen> and then respond 2 days later
00:13 <@rizen> nobody will know what you're talking about
00:14 < xdanger> WORKFLOW: Total workflows waiting to run: 720
00:14 <@rizen> on the dev mailing list...everyone knows
00:14 < xdanger> The number isn't going down..
00:14 <@rizen> there's your problem xdanger...you have a clog
00:14 <@rizen> if you upgrade to 7.3.10+, the ones that can run will
00:14 <@rizen> and the others will be left
00:14 <@rizen> thusly explaining where your clog is
00:14 < xdanger> ok
00:14 < xdanger> great
00:15 < xdanger> Don't have the time to upgrade right now, but will do that tommorrow...
00:15 <@rizen> that's the beauty of the new queuing system in 7.3.10...it can't get clogged
00:15 <+perlDreamer> you can call it DRAINO
00:15 < xdanger> that good =)
00:15 <@rizen> you can have stuff that doesn't work...but everything else continues working
00:15 <@rizen> and you can then just fix the problem children
00:16 <@rizen> pd: why didn't you come up with that when we were talking about it before?
00:16 <@rizen> i could have named it DRAINO
00:16 <@rizen> heeh
00:17 <+perlDreamer> Dynamic Reallocation of Asynchronous INternet Objects
00:17 <@rizen> nope
00:18 <+perlDreamer> time to test thumbnailer 2.0
00:18 <@rizen> that doesn't make any sense
00:18 <@rizen> ooooooh
00:18 <@rizen> thumbnailer 2.0
00:18 <@rizen> that's my favorite
00:18 <@rizen> did you upgrade it to use File::Find
00:18 <@rizen> cuz i should have done that long ago
00:18 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:18 <+perlDreamer> want a preview?
00:18 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot pastebin?
00:18 < gooeybot> pastebin is http://pastebin.ca
00:18 <@rizen> just check it in
00:19 <@rizen> then i'll have a preview
00:19 <+perlDreamer> it's in
00:19 <+perlDreamer> and untested
00:20 <+perlDreamer>
00:20 <@preaction> Dynamic Running of Asychronous INdependant Outcomes
00:20 <@preaction> we need an acrobot in here
00:23 <+perlDreamer> what do you know? the thing worked the first time!
00:23 <+perlDreamer>
00:25 <@rizen> looks good
00:25 <@rizen> ooh
00:25 <@rizen> nevermind
00:25 <@rizen> it's crap
00:25 <@rizen> it doesn't have the standard --help option
00:25 <@rizen> that all other utils do
00:26 <+perlDreamer> --help it is
00:35 <+perlDreamer> -2 bugs
00:46 <+perlDreamer> Is the clipboard now shared by default?
00:52 <@rizen> shared?
00:52 <@rizen> you mean between users?
00:53 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:53 <@rizen> no
00:53 <@rizen> each user has their own clipboard
00:54 <+perlDreamer> I'm looking at susanb's clipboard bug. She cut something from a page and then deleted the page. Since the parentId points to the page, the clipboard item got deleted, too.
00:54 <+perlDreamer> Is that fixable?
00:54 <+perlDreamer> We'd need some "safe" clipboard parent/folder thingy
00:55 <@rizen> that's not fixable
00:55 <@rizen> it's a side effect of the way clipboard is done these days
00:55 <@rizen> the old way was that we moved it to a "clipboard" node
00:56 <@rizen> but in that way, it was impossible to truely "restore" it back to where it was
00:56 <@rizen> so with the asset tree, it's left in place and just marked as clipped
00:56 <@rizen> but that means if it's parent goes away so does it
00:56 <@rizen> which is actually how all operating system filesystems work too
00:56 <@rizen> if you "copy" a file
00:57 <@rizen> and then delete the folder the file belongs to
00:57 <@rizen> and then try to "paste" the file
00:57 <@rizen> you can't do it
00:57 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll look to see if we can add something to the docs and then close the bug
00:57 < Radix_> can't remove the item from the trash?
00:58 <@rizen> huh?
00:58 <+perlDreamer> Radix_: clipboard, not trash
00:58 <+perlDreamer> although you can't restore from the clipboard either, can you?
00:58 <@rizen> yes you can
00:58 < Radix_> "She cut something from a page and then deleted the page."
00:58 < Radix_> so undelete the page, then it would come back, no?
00:59 <@rizen> Admin Console > Clipboard > Restore
00:59 <@rizen> yes, if she were to restore from trash, the page would come back into existence
00:59 <@rizen> but it would no longer be in the clipboard
00:59 <@rizen> it would be out onthe page
00:59 <@rizen> because she performed a "restore" operation to get it back
00:59 < Radix_> Ahh k.. clipped flag gets reset
00:59 <@rizen> and "restore" republishes
01:00 <+perlDreamer> ah, I see now
01:00 <@rizen> oh and pd
01:00 <+perlDreamer> sir?
01:01 <@rizen> if you try to paste an asset back to the page it was already on..it does a restore operation rather than a paste
01:01 <@rizen> because it's more efficient, and more likely what the user intended
01:01 <@rizen> so that's a shortcut to restore
01:01 <+perlDreamer> I also found out that you can restore an asset copied to the clipboard, which duplicates it on the page where it was copied from.
01:02 <@rizen> right
01:02 <@rizen> because the copy operation works like this:
01:02 <@rizen> 1) duplicate
01:02 <@rizen> 2) cut
01:02 <@rizen> therefore even though you didn't see it, for a split second it was on the page
01:02 <@rizen> =)
01:03 <+perlDreamer> sounds like we need a Clipboard, Using help entry
01:04 <@rizen> probably a wiki page rather than a help page
01:04 <+perlDreamer> why?
01:04 <@rizen> cuz it's more tutorial and less reference
01:04 <@rizen> and the help is a big bloated pile
01:04 <@rizen> already
01:05 <@rizen> and the more shit you keep adding to the help
01:05 <@rizen> the more memory webgui uses
01:05 <@rizen> i'm starting to formulate a plan about it actually
01:05 <@rizen> and that is that the only thing that should go into help
01:05 <@rizen> is stuff that is version specific
01:05 <@rizen> like fields and template variables
01:05 <@rizen> everything else should be linked out to the wiki
01:06 <+perlDreamer> between hoverHelp and the upcoming template variable manager, maybe we wouldn't even need online help.
01:07 <+perlDreamer> just a link to the Wiki
01:07 <@rizen> actually, that's a good point
01:07 <@rizen> and it also solves the searchability problem
01:07 <@rizen> cuz the wiki is searchable
01:07 <@rizen> and will be taggable
01:08 <@rizen> and it makes it far easier for translators
01:08 <@rizen> cuz they don't have to translate all the help in order to make a translation for webgui
01:08 <@rizen> just the stuff that matters
01:08 <+perlDreamer> we wouldn't have any translated docs for wiki entries, though
01:09 <@rizen> it's not like we do now anyway
01:09 <+perlDreamer> no
01:09 <@rizen> we don't have any real translations
01:09 <+perlDreamer> really?
01:09 <+perlDreamer> I've never looked at them
01:09 <@rizen> and on top of that, if someone wants that they can start a wiki on one of the other webgui worldwide sites
01:09 <@rizen> nobody has really translated webgui since 5.x
01:10 <@rizen> the dutch team is supposedly almost finished with a webgui 7 translation
01:10 <@rizen> but i haven't seen it
01:10 <@rizen> the more we can remove from help, the better as a far as webgui's memory usage goes
01:11 <+perlDreamer> yes
01:11 <@rizen> and like i said, since wiki is searchable, it's better for the user as well
01:11 <+perlDreamer> is the help->wiki transition scheduled, or just a generic RFE?
01:12 <@rizen> it's just one of my rough ideas
01:12 <+perlDreamer> I'll stop blowing in more information, except for fields and template variables then.
01:12 <@rizen> it's not officially an rfe or on the scheudle
01:12 <@rizen> but maybe we should do it for 7.4 as we do the template variable translation
01:13 <@rizen> from foo.bar to foo_bar
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01:13 <@rizen> we'll be in there doing major revamp anyway
01:13 <+perlDreamer> as long as we can cut and paste from the online help to the wiki and it's fast, it shouldn't be too much work
01:13 <@rizen> might as well take care of both
01:13 <@rizen> yup
01:13 <+perlDreamer> the downside is that I can't write wiki articles
01:13 <@rizen> you can't?
01:14 <@rizen> why not?
01:14 <@rizen> for the same reason as me?
01:14 <+perlDreamer> not at $dayJob. Old Mozilla doesn't work with YUI tabs
01:14 <@rizen> oh
01:14 <@rizen> that's no bother
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01:14 <@rizen> i actually can assign a pb staffer to do it
01:14 <@rizen> the copy paste job i mean
01:14 <@rizen> it certainly shouldn't be you doing it
01:14 <@rizen> or me for that matter
01:15 <@rizen> we have more important fish to fry
01:15 <+perlDreamer> why not? I'm a volunteer. I'm cheap.
01:15 <@preaction> rizen: last i heard, the dutch team had a translation of 7.2.3
01:15 <@rizen> you're a highly skilled and talented volunteer
01:15 <@rizen> and therefore not cheap
01:15 <@rizen> time is just as valuable as money
01:15 <@preaction> we need to keep you happy, and we can't use money to do it
01:15 <@rizen> and i have a data entry person on staff
01:16 <@rizen> so she can do it
01:17 <@rizen> i just sent her an email about it. she's out sick this week, so i'll get her started on it next week
01:18 <@rizen> pd: the tabs are supposed to degrade gracefully
01:18 <@rizen> what do you see?
01:18 <+perlDreamer> I see all 3 tabs, but I can't flip between them.
01:18 <+perlDreamer> I only get the view tab
01:19 <@rizen> ah. therein lies the problem
01:20 <@rizen> it's not that you don't have css/javascript capability
01:20 <@rizen> it's that you have a crappy implmeentation of both
01:20 <+perlDreamer> right
01:20 <+perlDreamer> Mozilla 1.4
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01:21 <+perlDreamer> as she does the copy and paste, if she lets me know I can start pulling the articles out of the help as well
01:21 <+perlDreamer> and all links to it
01:23 <@rizen> we can just do that when she's done
01:23 <@rizen> and then the help icon in webgui will just link directly to http://wiki.webgui.org/
01:23 <+perlDreamer> Do you know Isaac's last name and company so I can give him credit in the changelog for a bug with patch?
01:24 <@rizen> nope
01:28 <+perlDreamer> the only thing the help will need to do is do inheritance for fields and template variables.
01:30 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@143.sub-75-206-207.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI
01:32 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: Still looking for help on folder template variables?
01:32 < SDuensin> Yea!
01:32 <+perlDreamer> preaction and I had a long talk about it this morning
01:32 * SDuensin has a broken network at the moment. Storms knocked it out.
01:32 < SDuensin> Oh?
01:33 <+perlDreamer> menuTitle is not an available template variable in the folder.
01:33 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/?op=viewHelp;hid=folder%20template;namespace=Asset_Folder
01:33 < SDuensin> Loding
01:33 < SDuensin> Loading, too.
01:33 <+perlDreamer> Here's our suggestion
01:34 <+perlDreamer> 1) File a bug for the missing menuTitle template var.
01:34 <+perlDreamer> that can be fixed quickly
01:34 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:34 <+perlDreamer> 2) Submit an RFE to review which template vars are provided for each Asset in the folder.
01:35 < SDuensin> Awesome. :-) Thanks!
01:35 <+perlDreamer> It could do something like a $asset->get(), which would populate all the asset variables
01:35 < SDuensin> I can't even get to my WebGUI install with my net down. :-(
01:35 <+perlDreamer> rizen can weigh in on the cost/side effects and give us a good permanent solution
01:36 <@rizen> rizen is not here right now. if you would like to leave a message for rizen, leave it after the beep.
01:36 <@rizen> BEEP
01:36 < SDuensin> :-P
01:36 <+perlDreamer> rizen: would rizen have a cow if inside the Folder file_loop it did $asset->get instead of assigning a subset of template variables?
01:36 <+perlDreamer> it would make the template variables big
01:37 < SDuensin> Big, schmig. RAM is cheap. :-)
01:37 <+perlDreamer> but potentially very handy
01:37 <+perlDreamer> Big = Slow = fewer pages/second
01:37 <@rizen> instead?
01:37 <@rizen> care to restate that
01:37 <+perlDreamer> right now it cherry picks asset variables
01:38 <@rizen> look agai
01:38 <@rizen> again
01:38 <+perlDreamer> inside the file_loop, there's getId, canView, getIcon, getName, getUrl, etc...
01:38 <@rizen> it cherry picks variable. not variables
01:38 <@rizen> the other things are method calls
01:38 <@rizen> therefore, instead = no
01:39 <+perlDreamer> in addition to?
01:39 <@rizen> in addition or as a base, sure
01:39 <+perlDreamer> cool!
01:39 <+perlDreamer> 7.4-ish or 7.3.12-ish?
01:39 < SDuensin> :-)
01:40 <+perlDreamer> wait a second
01:40 <+perlDreamer> this will never work with the template variable editor
01:40 < SDuensin> rizen, I'm expanding the template you gave me into a nice gallery. I want the menuTitle of the images to use as a long description while keeping their filename in the title.
01:41 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: use the synopsis instead
01:41 <@rizen> pd is right
01:41 < SDuensin> That's what I was thinking after reading the help URL you posted, perlDreamer .
01:42 <+perlDreamer> rizen: you're right.
01:42 <+perlDreamer> the current help system is completely broken
01:42 < SDuensin> Dunno why I couldn't find that help the other night. Looked all over the place.
01:43 <+perlDreamer> in that case, let's put the brakes on the whole concept of altering folder template variables
01:44 < SDuensin> Yea. Synopsis works for me.
01:44 * SDuensin wants his net fixed so he can finish the gallery!
01:44 * SDuensin is going to eat. Thanks again!
01:44 <+perlDreamer> That's why they pay me the big bucks
01:45 < SDuensin> heheh
01:45 <+perlDreamer> besides, it was rizen who put our heads on right
01:46 <@rizen> the folder asset rocks
01:46 <@rizen> that's why we're doing a whole talk on just that at the wuc
01:46 <+perlDreamer> are you covering folder podcasting?
01:47 <@rizen> i don't know exactly what all will be covered
01:47 <@rizen> lots of cool stuff
01:49 <@rizen> steve won't have his outline done until april
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02:01 <+perlDreamer> --bug
02:02 <+perlDreamer> xtopher has been busy today
02:04 <+perlDreamer> --bug
02:13 < Radix-wrk> in the asset view, with the More->Revisions option. If you delete those revisions is that for ONLY that object, or all items in that revision history?
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02:17 <@preaction> just that asset
02:17 <@preaction> it's probably just delete from assetData, where revisionDate = ?
02:17 <@preaction> (or similar, not exact)
02:17 < Radix-wrk> that's what I thought, but wanted to make sure - never used it before :)
02:18 < Radix-wrk> just answering a question on the forums
02:18 < Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/overwritting-images-in-the-assets-bin
02:19 <@preaction> ah
02:19 < Radix-wrk> wanted to make sure that I was right in my assumptions :)
02:20 < Radix-wrk> If I'm not, I'll blame you now.. it's cool :)
02:20 < Radix-wrk> hehe
02:20 <@preaction> i can be the pariah!
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04:32 < PedersenMJ> good
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04:49 < Radix-wrk> yo
04:56 < PedersenMJ> How goes it?
04:57 <@rizen> the first of the three books is done
04:57 <@rizen> 400 pages later
04:57 <@rizen> have some formatting to do, and then it will be available for purchase
04:58 < PedersenMJ> Sweet. Which one is it that's done?
04:58 <@rizen> the content managers guide
04:58 <@rizen> i'm 1/3 of the way through the admins guide
04:59 < PedersenMJ> Hard for me to decide which of those two I'd be more interested in buying. Will buy both, most likely.
04:59 <@rizen> there's also the designer's guide
05:00 <@rizen> but that's going to be the last one out
05:00 <@rizen> lots of code examples to generate for that one
05:00 <@rizen> so it takes the longest
05:00 <@rizen> oh...and don't you have WebGUI Done Right
05:00 <@rizen> ??
05:01 <@rizen> cuz i think we're going to offer coupons to WDR subscribers to get two of the 4 books we have for free if you have 6mo left on your WDR contract
05:02 <@rizen> don't quote me on that though...cuz it hasn't been decided for sure
05:02 < PedersenMJ> I do have that subscription, yeah.
05:02 < PedersenMJ> That would be cool, since I only got that this past Dec.
05:03 < PedersenMJ> Sorry for my idleness, doing banking tonight (yay. paying bills is fun! :p
05:27 <@preaction> gooeybot, smart questions is http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html or http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
05:27 < gooeybot> OK, preaction.
05:54 <+crythias> gooeybot, gerald is fired.
05:54 < gooeybot> OK, crythias.
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05:54 <+crythias> gerald?
05:54 < gooeybot> gerald is fired.
05:54 <+perlDreamer> oh dear
05:55 * PedersenMJ ponders doing the "smart question" version of "who is Gerald?", but realizes he'd spend an awful lot of time on prepping that question, and is just too impatient. So, who is gerald?
05:55 <+crythias> gooeybot, pi is 3.1415926535 (at least)
05:55 < gooeybot> OK, crythias.
05:55 <+perlDreamer> gerald == crythias
05:56 < PedersenMJ> Crythias: Am hoping you're not saying you're now jobless?
05:56 * PedersenMJ is dense, yes.
05:56 <+perlDreamer> crythias, don't you mean 3.1415926535 +/- 1.0 ?
05:56 <+crythias> oh, no. just relaying rizen's viewpoint.
05:56 < PedersenMJ> gooeybot, perlDreamer is the Indiana State Legislature.
05:56 < gooeybot> ...but perldreamer is bug empowered...
05:56 <+crythias> never ask a question you don't already know the answer to.
05:57 <+crythias> perldreamer: pi is never less than 3, even for very small values of pi.
05:57 <+perlDreamer> now, if only I was bug sponsored...
05:58 <+crythias> now, if only I were more creative in a website...
05:58 <+crythias> design is for pansies.
05:58 <+crythias> erm. oops
05:59 <+crythias> I meant to say, design is for people who have time to make things purty.
05:59 <@rizen> so i just demo'd drupal for the first time
05:59 <+perlDreamer> what did you think?
05:59 <@rizen> and i have to say...it was pretty cool
05:59 <@rizen> someone told me today that drupal was twice as powerful as webgui
05:59 <@rizen> so i had to see for myself
05:59 <+perlDreamer> any lessons we can learn from them?
05:59 <@rizen> if you define power as flexibility...drupal is 1/1000 as powerful as webgui
06:00 <@rizen> if you define power as easy to use then drupal is 1:1 as powerful as webgui
06:00 <@rizen> if you define power as number of features then drupal is 1/100 as powerful as webgui
06:00 <@rizen> BUT
06:00 <+crythias> I love the new cms's coming out : it can do anything you want to do ... as long as you do it.
06:00 <@rizen> if you define power as how quickly you can build your first site without knowing anything, then drupal is 10/1 as powerful as webgui
06:01 <@rizen> which makes me think....we have a weakness
06:01 <@rizen> and it needs to be corrected in 7.4
06:01 < PedersenMJ> Well, to be fair, JT, with that as your yardstick, raw HTML is about 10/1 as powerful as WebGUI. Unless you count interactivity in that list.
06:02 <+perlDreamer> how do we do that?
06:02 <@rizen> bring back an old idea that i had
06:02 <@rizen> but never implemented
06:02 <@rizen> that is
06:03 <@rizen> at the end of the little startup session (asks you your user/pass/email etc)
06:03 <@rizen> we ask the user if they wish to use the new site guided setup
06:03 <@rizen> if they say yes
06:03 <@rizen> then we lead them through a wizard
06:03 <@rizen> it asks them if they want a contact form
06:04 <@rizen> and if so, we add a page with a dataform asset preconfigured on their site
06:04 <@rizen> it asks them if they want forums...if so we put a message board up with a common list of forums in it
06:04 <@rizen> we ask them more about their organization...they provide a paragraph and a logo
06:04 <@rizen> and we create an about us page
06:04 <@rizen> we also hold on to that logo
06:05 <@rizen> because as part of this process
06:05 <+perlDreamer> like the style wizard on steroids
06:05 <@rizen> we give them a little design wizard
06:05 <@rizen> that will help them either pick a predesigned style
06:05 <@rizen> or make one from scratch
06:05 <@rizen> whatever we decide is easiest
06:05 <@rizen> but when they hit "save" for the last time
06:05 <@rizen> they have a fully built site
06:06 <@rizen> without using the regular webgui UI
06:06 <@rizen> and the key here is, that now that they have something familiar to them
06:06 <@rizen> they'll be able to play around with that
06:06 <@rizen> and learn how the regular ui works
06:06 <@rizen> because editng an existng asset
06:06 <@rizen> is far less scary
06:06 <@rizen> than adding a new one for the first time
06:07 <@rizen> everybody agree with the plan?
06:07 <@rizen> and dissenters?
06:07 <@rizen> any changes or additions?
06:07 <+crythias> gerald?
06:07 < gooeybot> gerald is fired.
06:07 <@rizen> gooeybot forget gerald
06:07 < gooeybot> rizen: I forgot gerald
06:07 <@rizen> now he's not fired anymore
06:08 <+crythias> ok... now'm simply forgotten *sniff*
06:08 <+crythias> :)
06:08 <+crythias> anyway, sure, good idea.
06:08 <@rizen> gooeybot, gerald is faq-o-licious
06:08 < gooeybot> OK, rizen.
06:08 <+crythias> faq me?
06:09 <@rizen> no feedback at all from anybody
06:09 <@rizen> except gerald
06:09 <@rizen> who seems pretty ho-hum about it
06:10 <@rizen> gooeybot, everyone is asleep
06:10 < gooeybot> ...but everyone is supposed to think i'm the jackass that shoots everyone's ideas down...
06:10 <@rizen> goeybot forget everyone
06:10 <@rizen> gooeybot, forget everyone
06:10 < gooeybot> rizen: I forgot everyone
06:10 <@rizen> goeybot, everyone is asleep
06:10 < PedersenMJ> Actually, it *is* a good idea.
06:11 <@rizen> gooeybot, everyone is asleep
06:11 < gooeybot> OK, rizen.
06:11 <+perlDreamer> hang on, preparing to nuke the site from orbit
06:11 * crythias smiles just like Might Guy of Naruto...
06:11 < PedersenMJ> Here's my one negative thought about it, though: How is it actually different from what exists right now?
06:12 <@rizen> there's no guided setup to webgui at all right now...you get stuck with a bunch of demo pages that you have no relatonship with
06:12 <+crythias> it allows people to kinda start with "their stuff" rather than "pb's stuff"
06:12 < PedersenMJ> What you actually get right now is a fully functioning website. The only real differences (that I can see from my pov) is that you might add the first few assets for them.
06:12 <@rizen> when the guided setup is over, you'll have a functioning site that is all your content
06:12 <+perlDreamer> well, not all but enough to see where to go from there.
06:13 <@rizen> ok..granted
06:13 <@rizen> but the key here is that it's a siite they can relate to
06:13 <@rizen> not just a bunch of demo content from us
06:13 <+perlDreamer> that's good
06:13 <@rizen> it's got a working style that has their logo in it
06:13 <@rizen> it's got the default pages that they want to have
06:13 < PedersenMJ> Okay, that makes sense. That's the major difference that wasn't clicking for me.
06:14 <@rizen> basically.. the goal is that within 10 minutes
06:14 <@rizen> they should be able to turn on the site and say, hey visitors, look at me, i'm on the web
06:15 <@preaction> can we add an option for a "blank" site as well? that just the import node and the bare minimum of required stuff (and doesnt' create that demo content?)
06:16 < PedersenMJ> Yes, please do!
06:16 <@rizen> i don't think that would be a good idea
06:16 <@preaction> i mean, if we're going that way, may as well go the full nines
06:16 <@rizen> no...that's going the opposite direction
06:16 <@rizen> the only people that will want that are people that already know what they're doing in webgui
06:16 <@rizen> and those people can just as easily delete the existing content
06:17 <@rizen> noob users should never have that option shown to them
06:17 < PedersenMJ> But, it would be nice to be able to have an empty slate right from the start.
06:17 <@rizen> why?
06:17 <@preaction> true, a luser will select it and wonder wtf
06:17 <@rizen> first of all...how fucking lazy are you that you can't spend the 30 seconds to delete the default content
06:18 < PedersenMJ> I work on computers. That right there makes me lazy to some degree.
06:18 <@rizen> and secondly, what does it get you? really...what?
06:18 < PedersenMJ> Nothing other than convenience factor.
06:18 <@rizen> no...what convenience?
06:18 <@rizen> what convenience does it give you?
06:18 < PedersenMJ> The convenience of not having to delete the page layouts and then create new.
06:19 <@rizen> really? are you sure that's what it gives you?
06:19 <@rizen> what it really gives you is extra setup time
06:19 <@rizen> because now you have to create a home page
06:19 <@rizen> and then go into the settings and set it as a home page
06:19 <@rizen> cuz you won't even have a home page under your plan
06:19 <@preaction> the layout itself is there, just no content, no subpages, nothing else, at least that's what i was figuring
06:19 <+perlDreamer> does drupal have a guided installer like this? What makes it easier to do an initial setup
06:20 < PedersenMJ> Unless what is actually installed is just a blank home page.
06:20 <@rizen> drupal has no guided setup...what it has though is no flexibility
06:20 <@rizen> and that's why it's easy to get started
06:20 < Radix-wrk> I have to agree with PedersenMJ - it would be nice to have a blank slate as an option - I think a basic home page with no pictures/articles/etc would be nice.
06:20 <@rizen> let's get it straight: i said no
06:21 < Radix-wrk> Just my 2c
06:21 <@rizen> the whole point of this discussion is to help out noobs
06:21 <@rizen> even having that option available will fuck up noobs
06:21 <@rizen> you can take the 30 seconds to delete the default content
06:21 < PedersenMJ> Actually, it's possible to abuse that option, go through the guided setup, and keep selecting "Nope, don't want that", which will give pretty close to the same result.
06:22 <@rizen> i know you guys have to think about yourself
06:22 <@preaction> PedersenMJ: can't protect against that much stupidity
06:22 <@rizen> but i have to think about the community at large
06:22 <@rizen> and that does not help the community at large
06:22 <@rizen> the number of potential new users is far greater than the number of existing users who are creating a second site
06:23 <@rizen> perlDreamer: back to you
06:23 <@rizen> no guided setup
06:23 <@rizen> but due to lack of flexibility
06:23 <@rizen> it's easy to get started
06:23 < PedersenMJ> Nope, not trying to protect against stupidity. Trying to say that, within JT's idea, it's possible to get pretty close to what I was asking for.
06:23 <@rizen> you go to content creation
06:23 <@rizen> and type in the names of the forums you want to create
06:23 < PedersenMJ> So, for me, it works, and I'll let it go at that :)
06:23 <@rizen> you don't get to place them
06:23 <@rizen> you don't get to choose templates
06:24 <@rizen> you just get to pick name
06:24 <@rizen> s
06:24 <@rizen> and whether or not users have to preview or if it's options
06:24 <@rizen> optional
06:24 < Radix-wrk> The full gui editor stuff sounds great, but a simpler option would be to simply have several different styles come with the distribution and an extra step to let them pick the theme (which would update dynamically or something as they looked at each one.
06:24 <@rizen> then you move on to polls and do the same thing
06:24 <@rizen> and finally you move on to site creation
06:24 <@rizen> and there you type what you want to appear in your menus
06:24 <@rizen> and if you want your menu on the left side or the right side
06:25 <@rizen> and pick from these four style templates
06:25 <@rizen> and choose the colors of them
06:25 <@rizen> and upload your logo
06:25 <@rizen> done
06:25 <@rizen> it's not a guided process
06:25 <@rizen> but what it is, is so inflexible..that it might as well be a guided process
06:26 <@rizen> the difference is that webgui will give you the easy guided process at the beginning
06:26 <@rizen> but then once you figure out what you're doing
06:26 <@rizen> it will also give you all the flexibility and power you could hope for
06:27 <@rizen> radix: as stated above, that was one of the options
06:27 <@rizen> design one or pick one
06:27 < PedersenMJ> Suggestion to go with it? Allow them to choose to import one right then?
06:28 < PedersenMJ> They might well have found an existing .wgpkg which gives them the look they want. Let them import it and choose it.
06:29 <@rizen> PedersonMJ: that's a good idea
06:29 <@rizen> probably just point them straight to the contrbs area
06:29 <@rizen> give them a url
06:29 <@rizen> and say...go pick one
06:29 <@rizen> and upload it
06:29 <@rizen> the shitty part about that though is...no way to put their logo into it
06:30 < PedersenMJ> Well, maybe...
06:30 <@rizen> but maybe if they upload one...we just warn them that they have to put their own logo in
06:30 <@rizen> and if they design one they get it put in automatically
06:30 <+perlDreamer> could we have packages that refer to the uploaded logo instead of one included in the package?
06:30 <+perlDreamer> the logo would have to be restricted to certain sizes/aspects...
06:30 <+perlDreamer> eh
06:30 < PedersenMJ> No *guaranteed* way to put it in. But come up with a simple standard: any theme should include a logo.png (or .jpg, or .gif), and *that* file can be replaced?
06:31 <+perlDreamer> we know the name, it just has to referenced via a macro in the package
06:31 <@rizen> we could request that users upload packages that have logo.png as part of it
06:31 <@rizen> and then just replace it
06:31 <@rizen> yeah pederson
06:31 < PedersenMJ> Any package which honors that standard gets an extra special graphic next to it, or somesuch, so that newbies know this one will work for them.
06:32 < Radix-wrk> it'd be nice to have a standard location in the asset tree for themes too actually
06:32 <@rizen> there is one
06:32 <@rizen> it's called the import node
06:32 <@rizen> =)
06:32 < Radix-wrk> the import node is a mess
06:32 <@rizen> the media folder is where you upload all your content images and files
06:32 <+perlDreamer> the logo can have any name, when we upload we'll assign it a URL and refer to it via an assetproxy macro.
06:32 <@rizen> and the import node is for templates and such
06:33 <@rizen> right pd...as long as the theme designers use the strict name...it doesn't matter what the user calls the image...or for that matter even if it's a jpg, png, or gif
06:33 <@rizen> we can convert it
06:33 < PedersenMJ> yeah, perlDreamer, I like that. A macro which spits out the img tag for the logo. Could even use ImageMagick to resize the logo if necessary.
06:33 <+perlDreamer> PMJ: that macro is the assetproxy macro
06:34 <+perlDreamer> we ask them for it, upload it, stuff it into an asset with known URL which is used by a special subset of packages
06:35 < PedersenMJ> True. What asset should a theme designer use to reference it?
06:35 <+perlDreamer> /company_logo ?
06:35 <@rizen> radix: i don't disagree that it's a mess...especially if you've gone through a lot of uploads...but i don't know what to do to make it better either
06:35 <+perlDreamer> we can set the standard to be anything which doesn't inconvenience the user
06:35 < Radix-wrk> me neither unfortunately :)
06:36 < Radix-wrk> but I find it hard to find templates these days.. with the large number of folders it might be.. search is the only option
06:36 <@rizen> s/uploads/upgrades/
06:36 <+perlDreamer> the asset manager search makes the import node acceptable
06:36 <@rizen> yeah...but you have search
06:36 <@rizen> that's the key
06:36 < PedersenMJ> Well, for my own purposes, I use a "Themes" folder where I put my templates and the like, and hang that off of root.
06:36 <@rizen> and you also have the asset interface which allows you to edit/manage the templates
06:36 <@rizen> so you don't have to necessarily know where they are
06:37 <@rizen> i mean on the display tab
06:37 <@rizen> the edit/manage buttons next to each template
06:37 < Radix-wrk> I think styles should be standardized on what PedersenMJ has been doing. images/css/js/etc should all be in one place in one directory in the asset tree
06:37 < Radix-wrk> so if you import a package, you know where it's going to be, and you can delete it if you no longer want it and be assured that it'll all be cleaned up
06:37 <+perlDreamer> we're kind of wandering here, guys.
06:38 <+perlDreamer> Issue #1 is the auto-setup idea
06:38 <+perlDreamer> If we like it, we can banter implementation later
06:38 <+perlDreamer> but rizen is asking whether we think it's good or not, not how to do it.
06:38 <+perlDreamer> we can tell him that later :)
06:38 <@rizen> first: do we agree that this is even a problem?
06:38 < PedersenMJ> Definitely wandering, definitely. Sorry about that. Is the idea good? Absolutely.
06:38 <@rizen> the setup time
06:38 < PedersenMJ> Is it a problem? Allow me to say "hell yes!"
06:38 <@rizen> the where do i get started factor
06:38 < Radix-wrk> Yes, I think it is
06:39 <+perlDreamer> Ask Kristi
06:39 <@rizen> second: do we agree that my solution addresses that problem?
06:39 <@rizen> third: are there any ideas to improve the user level process of my idea?
06:39 <@rizen> how the wizard should work for the user
06:40 < PedersenMJ> It will address it to a point. It *will* get people started more easily. The one failing that can still occur is the sheer size/felxibility of WebGUI. People could still balk, and I have no idea how to counter that.
06:40 <@rizen> the only way i can think of to counter that is to either scale back webgui, or hide it from them...and either way..that hurts webgui
06:40 <@rizen> webgui is a monster
06:41 <@rizen> people should know that it's a monster
06:41 <@rizen> but they should also know that the monster is tamable
06:41 <+perlDreamer> Maybe Gooey should be frowning?
06:42 <@rizen> pd: you were just talking about getting off topic
06:42 <+perlDreamer> sorry
06:42 < Radix-wrk> second: yup, sounds great
06:42 <+perlDreamer> We all agree that wG is big, and that makes it hard to setup.
06:42 <+perlDreamer> If we help them set it up, what do we do from there?
06:43 <+perlDreamer> books, wikis, IRC, discussion boards....?
06:43 < Radix-wrk> third: ning.com has some nice ideas for how they set up their stuff, neat little ajax drag'n'drop kinda interface and custom colours. Might be worth a gander.
06:44 <@rizen> in the next few months we're going to have reams of documentation, and training options coming out of our ears. it's up to the community to provide free docs...the best we as developers can do is provide friendly tools to users
06:44 < Radix-wrk> I found that decent.. trick is to make it not too long that it's impossible go through in one setting, and not too short that you don't feel like you had much say in it.
06:44 < PedersenMJ> Hey, here's a truly stupid thought: Why aren't there links to plainblack support pages anywhere in (for instance) the admin console?
06:44 <@rizen> we put the advertising in the demo content
06:45 <@rizen> and as far as the actual support boards, etc...not everyone has access to that stuff
06:46 < PedersenMJ> Yes. But, for instance, why isn't there a link to wiki.webgui.org somewhere visible in a post-installation page, after all demo content would be removed?
06:46 <@rizen> there will be
06:46 <@rizen> in 7.4 the help icon is going to take you to wiki
06:47 <@rizen> no more help in 7.4
06:47 < PedersenMJ> That's what I meant when I asked about a support page link the admin console
06:50 <@rizen> radix: just tried out ning.com
06:50 <@rizen> yes something like that
06:55 <@rizen> ok...sounds like we're in agreement
06:55 <@rizen> oh...and pd..we can't get rid of the help unless we can build the template builder
06:55 <@rizen> which i'm still not 100% sure how to do
06:55 <@rizen> i'm a little scared about that
06:59 <@rizen> ok well, i'm gone for the night. thanks for the feedback guys...much appreciated
06:59 * rizen out
07:06 < Radix-wrk> caio
07:16 <+perlDreamer> I thought for the template builder that we gutted RTE and added a pop-up form for adding template variables.
07:17 < PedersenMJ> Oooh, there's something: Any chance that the list of macros is accessible from with webgui? Basically, add a popup form that shows a list of macros, too.
07:23 <+perlDreamer> isn't there an RFE for that?
07:24 <+perlDreamer> on the RTE, which isn't available in the template editor now, but in other places the ^#; button will bring up a subset of macros. I think.
07:25 < PedersenMJ> Ah, didn't even look for an rfe for that. My bad.
07:26 <+perlDreamer> maybe you should talk with someone who has commit access about implementing that particular RFE for 7.4 :)
07:29 < PedersenMJ> Heh. My idea for it is bigger than just a popup form. With all the info that is available in the online help (and which I assume will continue to be available in the wiki when 7.4 comes out), it should be possible to provide an "IDE" for the macros.
07:29 <+perlDreamer> that's a pretty big idea
07:29 <+perlDreamer> much bigger than populating the current macro selector with the current set of configured macros
07:30 < PedersenMJ> Not a full IDE, mind you. Just something that will provide the template and help for a given macro.
07:31 <+perlDreamer> the current macro editor does a subset of that, it inserts a sample usage for each macro selected
07:32 < PedersenMJ> That's cool. I just haven't gotten to that point yet in my explorations of webgui.
07:32 <+perlDreamer> but it doesn't link to the help yet, and it doesn't show the complete, possible usage of the macro
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10:01 < pjesi> 4x XEON dual core 3.2ghz and yet WebGUI crushing at 4 in load
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13:30 < wgGuest62> hey
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13:38 < wgGuest62> is there a way (a macro?) to get the URL of the current user's profile?
13:41 < wgGuest62> ah trought the User iD macro I guess
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17:18 < ckotil> I need some guidance on my group structure
17:27 < ckotil> nvm. ive got it figured out.
17:28 < ckotil> i needed it setup so that my engineers can view and edit all of our internal documents, and then at the same time allow our customers to view the documents for their particular network.
17:28 < ckotil> so i create a group for each network and set that to view. and set the able to edit option to group engineers
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18:49 <@rizen> perlDreamer: are you here!!!
18:49 <@rizen> ???
18:52 <+perlDreamer> I'm here, I'm there, I'm everywhere
18:52 <+perlDreamer> so beware
18:52 <+perlDreamer> I gotta find the source for that quote
19:03 < ckotil> beatles
19:03 <+perlDreamer> Like Ringo and Paul?
19:04 < ckotil> yah, 'here, there and everywhere'
19:07 < ckotil> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f5d_1172741350 squirrel catapult
19:07 < ckotil> using that import script i creatd 900+ workflows.....
19:07 < ckotil> its gonna take about an hour to cook them all out
19:08 < ckotil> and i didnt even grab the content :/
19:11 <+perlDreamer> oy
19:12 * perlDreamer hopes for a telnetd attack today
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19:44 < ckotil> i have this pending version tag, and when i run spectre --status, it shows the workflow as waiting. but in the show running workflow screen, the workflow is shown as error.
19:44 < ckotil> not really a bug.
19:44 < ckotil> just wierd.
20:29 < ckotil> hell yeah. the links even work for the faq o matic entries that are now article assets and page layouts
21:01 <+perlDreamer> snapcount_ is good
21:01 < snapcount_> eh?
21:02 < snapcount_> I thought I was bad
21:02 <+perlDreamer> bad is good
21:02 < snapcount_> oh
21:02 <+perlDreamer> ckotil likes the import script
21:02 < snapcount_> ahh
21:02 < snapcount_> I think the one he's using has been passed around a few times
21:02 < snapcount_> JT modified it
21:03 < snapcount_> then I modified it to not create 1500 copies of each image and file asset =)
21:07 <+perlDreamer> that's good
21:46 <+perlDreamer> we keep getting more of those undef Asset bugs
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21:58 <+perlDreamer> what is this Dutch obsession with hair and appearance?
21:58 <+perlDreamer> HairGrease, Dapper?
21:58 < rjacobsen> quick question about webgui - is there a macro that will show a product price? and how would i type the macro (ie. ^Product(101,price) )... that one is not working so i need to know how to get the price of a product on my site with this macro and how it should be typed
21:59 <+perlDreamer> The product macro is what you want to use. Be sure that you're giving it proper arguments.
21:59 < rjacobsen> thats my problem - not sure the correct way to insert the arguments
21:59 < rjacobsen> like ^Product(101, ?)
21:59 <+perlDreamer> the online help will tell you what you need to know
22:00 <+perlDreamer> become admin
22:00 <+perlDreamer> turn admin on
22:00 <+perlDreamer> go to the admin bar
22:00 <+perlDreamer> select admin console
22:00 <+perlDreamer> choose the help icon
22:00 <+perlDreamer> select the macro tab
22:00 < rjacobsen> does "price" go where the ? is?
22:00 <+perlDreamer> no
22:00 < rjacobsen> i see variant.price
22:00 <+perlDreamer> that is a template variable
22:00 < rjacobsen> but dont know where to insert it
22:00 <+perlDreamer> not a macro argument
22:01 <+perlDreamer> your product is configured to use a template to display it
22:01 < rjacobsen> right
22:01 <+perlDreamer> that's where you'd use the variant.price variable
22:01 < rjacobsen> i just want to be able to call just the price of the particular product
22:01 <+perlDreamer> you'd have to create a custom template to do that
22:01 * perlDreamer heads to lunch
22:01 <+perlDreamer> namaste
22:01 < rjacobsen> let me explain
22:03 < rjacobsen> i have a page on a shopping cart form that is thru paypal - instead of putting in a hardcoded price in the value, i want to put in a product/price macro that will put the price in for a particular product without having to change the code all the time
22:03 < rjacobsen> so when i change the product price on the product page it will dynamically change the price in the form via the macro
22:04 < rjacobsen> am i makin any sense>?
22:06 < ckotil> yeah that will be possible.
22:06 <@preaction> so you make a template that has one thing: "", and use that template's ID in your product macro
22:06 < ckotil> might have to write acustom macro
22:06 < dapperedodo> You create a template for the product macro with only the in it. Then use the product macro with that template
22:06 <@preaction> great minds think alike
22:07 < dapperedodo> :)
22:07 < rjacobsen> im real stupid when it comes to macros sorry - can u pls explain a little more?
22:07 < dapperedodo> OH, and for perlDreamer: Dapper means brave in Dutch, nothing with appearance
22:08 < rjacobsen> i know how to use them...... but makin em is difficult
22:08 <@preaction> rjacobsen: you dont have to make one. the second argument to ^Product(productId, templateId); allows you to add an arbitrary template for the product
22:08 < rjacobsen> ok so where do i make that template?
22:09 <@preaction> where ever, you just need the ID
22:09 < rjacobsen> the in the product category?
22:09 < rjacobsen> and the ID is the url?
22:09 <@preaction> it doesn't even need a namespace
22:09 <@preaction> no the ID is the ID
22:09 <@preaction> it's the first item on the edit form after you've created it
22:10 < rjacobsen> so i open the product category and click template (for new template) and name that?
22:10 <@preaction> or put the template in the import node, whatevz
22:12 < rjacobsen> i just dont see an ID slot..... i see Title, Menu Title, URL, Namespace
22:12 < rjacobsen> am i missing something?
22:13 <@preaction> you dont get to choose an ID, I said "after you've created it"
22:13 < rjacobsen> sorry
22:13 <@preaction> once it's created, edit it again, and the first item will be "Asset ID" or something similar
22:13 <@preaction> it'll be a seemingly random series of 22 characters
22:13 <@preaction> (random being the idea, so that there's no collision)
22:14 < rjacobsen> AHHHHH
22:14 < rjacobsen> i see
22:14 < rjacobsen> so i put that in the templateID
22:14 <@preaction> so ^Product("sku","templateId");
22:14 < rjacobsen> so it would be ^Product(101, C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ);
22:14 <@preaction> probably want to use quotes, but yes
22:14 < rjacobsen> i mean ^Product("101","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ");
22:15 < rjacobsen> now i can call this into a script you think?
22:16 <@preaction> perlbot tias
22:16 < perlbot> Try It And See: the best way to learn if something works.
22:16 < rjacobsen> ill let ya know thanx VERY much for your help
22:16 < rjacobsen> and THANKYOU for fixin the import packages
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22:18 <@preaction> that was all pd
22:19 <@preaction> he gets paid so well that he can work on wG for free, the git
22:21 < rjacobsen> i cant get this to work :(
22:22 < rjacobsen> the form code is in the body tag of the page.... and it wont let me pull in the macro
22:22 < rjacobsen> wierd
22:22 < rjacobsen> i try and and still nothing
22:23 < rjacobsen> when it is called it shows nothing
22:23 < rjacobsen> paypal keeps saying please enter a number greater than 0
22:24 <@preaction> are you sure it's supposed to be "variant.amount" and not something else? make sure the macro is working by putting a field you know work, like the sku or something
22:25 < rjacobsen> im not sure how to test it as it goes to the paypal site
22:25 < rjacobsen> this is what inputs into paypal the price of the product
22:25 <@preaction> make an article that mimics the behavior? or maybe an article that just tries the macro?
22:26 < rjacobsen> ok
22:30 < rjacobsen> the macro isnt working
22:31 < rjacobsen> because i tried ^Page("title"); and it showed up fine in the article as the page title.... but the ^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); just shows the code
22:31 <@preaction> product macro not enabled on your site? it isn't by default
22:32 < rjacobsen> it may not be then
22:32 < rjacobsen> how do i enable it?
22:32 <@preaction> add it to the configuration file
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22:32 <@preaction> data/WebGUI/etc/yoursite.conf
22:33 < rjacobsen> just add the ^Product("sku","templateID"); to it?
22:35 <@preaction> look in the configuration file, there's a section devoted to Macros, you should be able to see how to add one
22:41 < rjacobsen> that is awesome thank you
23:00 < rjacobsen> ok i enabled the product macro and started out by simply putting in ^Product("101"); and it says cannot find product even though there is a product 101
23:03 < dapperedodo> Did you define the product in the commerce module?
23:05 < rjacobsen> how do i do that?
23:05 < dapperedodo> go to the admin console - click 'Products'
23:06 < rjacobsen> ok there is none listed - wierd
23:06 < rjacobsen> but i have like 20 product pages
23:06 < dapperedodo> Ah, the product wobject is not connected to the commerce module
23:06 < rjacobsen> damm
23:06 < rjacobsen> so how can i make this work?
23:06 < dapperedodo> The product wobject was developed a long time ago
23:07 < dapperedodo> add the products also in the Products
23:07 < rjacobsen> ok
23:07 < dapperedodo> and it will work
23:07 < rjacobsen> ty
23:07 < dapperedodo> It is a little more work
23:09 < rjacobsen> one more question
23:10 < rjacobsen> the current template i created for my product page layout - can i use it for the products in the commerce?
23:10 < rjacobsen> if so i can make it totally dynamic
23:18 < dapperedodo> They are not connected (yet???), but you can try to merge them
23:19 < dapperedodo> The commerce product has no options for extra features and so
23:19 <+perlDreamer> apologies, dapperedodo
23:20 <+perlDreamer> But in English your nick is a well groomed extinct bird
23:20 < dapperedodo> I just looked in the dictionary
23:20 <+perlDreamer> As long as we know that it's the Dutch MySQL powerhouse behind the name, you can call yourself anything you like.
23:20 < dapperedodo> I am fine with it
23:21 < dapperedodo> :)
23:21 <+perlDreamer> So you and your team were spun out from Procolix into an independent business?
23:22 < dapperedodo> yes that's right
23:22 < dapperedodo> We do the hard programming stuf
23:22 <+perlDreamer> Is that going well?
23:22 < dapperedodo> ProcoliX does the hosting stuf
23:22 < dapperedodo> It is going very well
23:22 <+perlDreamer> cool
23:22 < dapperedodo> Programming is much more fun then Hosting
23:22 < rjacobsen> why when i click on the commerce button in the admin console does it just bring me back to the website page i was working on? it does not open any editing options for commerce
23:23 < dapperedodo> and people want to pay for both, so we are both in business
23:23 <+perlDreamer> Oh, so you still work with procolix
23:24 < dapperedodo> Yes, we are a great team, only the business split
23:24 < dapperedodo> clicking the commerce button should get you the commerce settings
23:24 < rjacobsen> it doesnt sir
23:25 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen, what's in your webgui.log file?
23:25 < rjacobsen> it just brings me back to the web page i was working on before i opened the admin console
23:26 < dapperedodo> I'm off now, see you later
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23:27 < rjacobsen> what site is that i use to copy and paste again? to show you the error log?
23:27 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot: paste?
23:27 < gooeybot> somebody said paste was http://paste.biz
23:28 < rjacobsen> http://paste.biz/paste-775.html
23:29 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen: I need to ask you some questions
23:30 <+perlDreamer> do you host your own server?
23:30 < rjacobsen> yes we do
23:30 < rjacobsen> linux
23:30 < rjacobsen> fadora
23:30 <+perlDreamer> you have shell access?
23:30 < rjacobsen> yes we do - or my boss does anyhow
23:30 <+perlDreamer> have you customized WebGUI?
23:30 < rjacobsen> do you want to talk to him?
23:30 < rjacobsen> yes we have quite a bit
23:31 < rjacobsen> but not much with the base code that i know of
23:31 <+perlDreamer> what version of wG are you running?
23:31 < rjacobsen> second - let me get my boss in the irc channel
23:31 <+perlDreamer> okay
23:32 <+perlDreamer> you're probably missing the Locale::US perl module
23:32 <+perlDreamer> but there are ways to test that
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23:36 < rjacobsen> ok sir
23:36 < rjacobsen> dwallisser is my boss and has shell access to webgui
23:37 <+perlDreamer> dwalisser, what version of WebGUI are you running?
23:37 < dwalisser> 7.3.10
23:37 < rjacobsen> correction
23:37 < rjacobsen> 7.3.11
23:37 <+perlDreamer> I would like you to run the testEnvironment script in the sbin directory
23:37 < dwalisser> ah, 7.3.11, needed to refresh
23:38 <+perlDreamer> be sure to use the switch to just print out a report
23:38 < dwalisser> ok
23:38 <+perlDreamer> perl testEnvironment.pl --simpleReport
23:38 <+perlDreamer> I'm guessing that you're missing a module, but this will tell us
23:40 < dwalisser> It says HTML::Template outdated, Text::Aspell not installed, Locale::US not installed
23:40 <+perlDreamer> you need to install Locale::US
23:41 < dwalisser> ok
23:41 <+perlDreamer> once you do that, you should be golden
23:41 <+perlDreamer> and do update HTML::Template, the newer version fixes some long standing bugs with template variables that you will eventually run into
23:43 < dwalisser> ok, done. thanks for your help
23:44 <+perlDreamer> no problem.
23:44 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen is a hard worker and coming up to speed well.
23:44 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI has a steep learning curve
23:46 < rjacobsen> i really appreciate all your help
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23:47 <+perlDreamer> You're welcome. Just remember that we've all been where you have been and hang in there.
23:47 < rjacobsen> this seems to fix the problem - although when i put in ^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); i get nothing
23:47 <+perlDreamer> and if you have a chance, answer a question on the boards, post a wiki article or add a contrib.
23:47 < rjacobsen> and i know i put the product in
23:48 < rjacobsen> i can put in ^Product("103"); and it shows the product..... but i use ^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); - which should show the product price only - it does not
23:48 <+perlDreamer> then you have a template problem
23:49 < rjacobsen> the C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ is the asset ID to the template i made with
23:50 <+perlDreamer> variant.price only exists inside of the variantLoop
23:50 < rjacobsen> ok
23:50 <+perlDreamer> just nest it in a loop, and only have 1 variant
23:50 < rjacobsen> let me explain what i am trying to do sir
23:50 <+perlDreamer> You need to put this in a form to paypal
23:50 < rjacobsen> yes
23:50 <+perlDreamer> (I was lurking earlier)
23:50 < rjacobsen> and send only the price
23:51 <+perlDreamer> if your product only has 1 variant, then there will only be 1 price
23:51 < rjacobsen> so how would i write the code on the template page?
23:51 <+perlDreamer>
23:51 < rjacobsen> ahhhh
23:52 < rjacobsen> let me try that
23:52 <+perlDreamer> may I make a suggestion?
23:52 < rjacobsen> brb
23:52 < rjacobsen> sure sir
23:52 <+perlDreamer> take 30 minutes, and read through some of the online wG docs
23:52 < rjacobsen> i have already
23:52 < rjacobsen> a lot
23:52 <+perlDreamer> all right
23:52 <+perlDreamer> because knowing HTML::Template well is pretty important for getting stuff to work
23:53 < rjacobsen> where can i find the read info on that? you have a url?
23:54 <+perlDreamer> ?op=viewHelp;hid=template%20language;namespace=Asset_Template
23:54 <+perlDreamer> use that op on your site
23:54 <+perlDreamer> kidscorner.us.com?op=.....
23:54 < rjacobsen> ok
23:56 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I need a bug consult. Do you have 10 minutes?
23:57 <@preaction> yo
23:58 <+perlDreamer> read this first: http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/clipboard-to-trash#_ih716rkIGoJIKR1-geK-g
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23:59 <+perlDreamer> I think we can handle this one of 3 ways
23:59 <+perlDreamer> 1) Return an error saying that you can't delete uncommitted assets.
23:59 <+perlDreamer> 2) Delete it anyway, leaving the user with an empty, uncommitted version tag
--- Day changed Sat Mar 03 2007
00:00 <+perlDreamer> 3) Don't do anything
00:00 <@preaction> with the addition of "enter the revision and remove the revision of this asset manually"
00:00 < rjacobsen> thank you for all your help and sorry if i sound like an idiot here - just tryin to do my job well and make this thing work very well...... before my introduction to webgui i used php-nuke and a LOT of html/database code..... so this is a whole new world........ but i do appreciate the help
00:00 <@preaction> i think for now it'd be better to do 1) with instructions on how to continue, with the future being 2) once tmrfe gets involved
00:01 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll punt until we get tmrfe'd
00:01 <@preaction> wait, the Admin is trying to remove from the system clipboard?
00:01 <+perlDreamer> Yes
00:01 <@preaction> they should be allowed to do that imho
00:01 <+perlDreamer> I think so too, but what about the empty version tag?
00:02 <+perlDreamer> isn't that bad juju?
00:02 <@preaction> maybe empty trash should detect newly empty version tags and delete them
00:02 <@preaction> in fact, imho, empty version tags should never exist
00:02 <+perlDreamer> it sounds bad.
00:02 <@preaction> to delete them? or to allow them?
00:03 <+perlDreamer> to create empty ones via anymethod
00:03 <@preaction> creating a version tag should be a result of another method
00:03 <+perlDreamer> I'm pretty sure the TrashClipboard workflow activity has this same bug, btw
00:03 <@preaction> addRevision or addChild
00:03 <+perlDreamer> it is, but they're never automatically destroyed when emptied
00:03 <@preaction> do you think they should be? i do
00:04 <@preaction> an empty version tag is useless
00:04 <+perlDreamer> I agree with you, preaction
00:04 <+perlDreamer> You're preachin' to the choir
00:04 <@preaction> sounds like something for the dev list
00:04 <+perlDreamer> The dev list? That's dead :)
00:04 <@preaction> it's not dead so much as we haven't had anything to put there
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00:04 <@preaction> since when JT hangs out here, he's The Final Word
00:05 <@preaction> which negates the necessity for discussion
00:05 <+perlDreamer> or immediate presence in IRC
00:07 <@preaction> i can't think of any need for a version tag that has nothing in it yet, except when you do WebGUI::VersionTag->getWorking (which creates a tag to prepare for you to do a bunch of stuff under it, if there is no tag already)
00:07 <@preaction> so we can't just remove them willy-nilly
00:08 <@preaction> i think probably as each asset in the trash is deleted, check the tagId and see if we can delete the version tag as well
00:09 <@preaction> that way, too, in the system manage version tags, tags from long ago that have since had all their assets deleted will not show up
00:09 <@preaction> i dunno, i'm over my head now
00:15 < rjacobsen> how can i add/remove stuff from the admin bar on the left side of the screen for users i do not want to see certain things and users i want to see more? example: secondary admin can see "products" but testuser(content manager) can not
00:15 < rjacobsen> is there a way?
00:16 <@preaction> uiLevels
00:17 < rjacobsen> do what? lol
00:17 <@preaction> ask?
00:17 < gooeybot> ask is Don't ask to ask, just ask. Don't repeat. If nobody answers, it probably means nobody knows. While you wait: Check the fine manual, check google, check the source, try different things on a demo site.
00:17 <@preaction> smart questions?
00:17 < gooeybot> smart questions is http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html or http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
00:17 <@preaction> there's the one
00:18 <@preaction> uiLevels are documented, the way you'll probably want to implement them is in the configuration file
00:22 < dwalisser> can the config file override the ui level hard-coded in the wobject?
00:22 <@preaction> yes it does
00:22 < dwalisser> ah
00:23 <@preaction> you can also override which groups are allowed to add which types of assets in the config file
00:26 < dwalisser> has anyone written a clever script that would allow me to setup one site config file the way I want and copy it to all the others (I have 15 that I want to be identical)
00:27 < dwalisser> the difference being the db user/password and dsn only
00:27 < dwalisser> oh and the sitename
00:27 < dwalisser> ah and the uploadsPath
00:27 < dwalisser> I think that covers it
00:27 <@preaction> the config files are JSON, so write your own. jsonToObj gives you a perl data structure, objToJson puts it back
00:28 < dwalisser> sounds like a simple script then
00:29 <+perlDreamer> dwalisser, that's kind of what the WRE does
00:29 <+perlDreamer> I think it has a template for all new sites it creates
00:29 <+perlDreamer> config files, etc.
00:30 <+perlDreamer> alter the template, and you should be done.
00:30 < dwalisser> yes, I've been using that "WebGUI.conf.original", downside is it is overwritten every time I upgrade
00:31 <+perlDreamer> make a small SVN repository and check it in.
00:31 <+perlDreamer> after the upgrade, do a merge
00:31 <@preaction> or keep a diff, and run the patch
00:31 < dwalisser> yeah
00:35 <+perlDreamer> man, preaction, we know this WebGUI stuff pretty well. Maybe we should look into doing it as more than a hobby.
00:36 <@preaction> no crap, maybe we should be getting paid for this
00:39 <+perlDreamer> how's the hacking coming?
00:39 <@preaction> not so bad
00:40 <@preaction> is it just me, or is it impossible to get a truly deep structure out of the WebGUI::Config interface
00:40 <@preaction> example: workflow activities are a hash of array refs
00:40 <@preaction> i suppose the interface is returning references, so i can work with that
00:40 <+perlDreamer> yeah
00:41 <+perlDreamer> I think this is going to be the highest subrev of wG ever
00:41 <+perlDreamer> .12
00:41 <+perlDreamer> and we're not done yet
00:41 <@preaction> i think we'll be going further than that before 7.4
00:41 <@preaction> but i also think it's very good that we're doing so
00:42 <+perlDreamer> me, too
00:42 <+perlDreamer> a very stable wG will make all of our lives easier
00:42 <@preaction> webgui has a lot of features, and people are clamoring for more, but bugs and a stable maintainable code base are far more important for the future
00:42 <@preaction> i should RFE for "update skeletons to conform to WebGUI Best Practices"
00:43 <+perlDreamer> Do you ever wonder about the features people _don't_ clamor for?
00:43 <+perlDreamer> Could they be removed?
00:43 <@preaction> such as the guided setup?
00:43 <@preaction> or i18n?
00:43 < gooeybot> i guess i18n is overwritten each upgrade
00:43 <@preaction> i18n is a mixed bag, it's the reason some people choose webgui, but it's also just cruft for a lot of people
00:43 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:43 <+perlDreamer> they really want i18n content and UI
00:43 <+perlDreamer> but we only do half that
00:44 <@preaction> well, the UI we have control over, the content they have control over, make a section for each translation
00:45 <@preaction> i mean, if they want multiple languages, they're going to have to do something
00:56 <@preaction> if a scheduled workflow activity isSerial but is not a singleton, that means i can queue up multiple activities that will all run one at a time, correct?
00:56 <@preaction> i mean, it's what the docs say
00:58 <+perlDreamer> that sounds right to me
01:06 <+perlDreamer> have a look at Session.pm, line 638
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01:07 <@preaction> WebGUI::Session?
01:07 <+perlDreamer> yes
01:07 <@preaction> 1;?
01:08 <+perlDreamer> $self->var("adminOn")
01:08 <+perlDreamer> var->get("adminOn") or var->isAdminOn
01:08 <+perlDreamer> I've been trying to fix xtopher's dbSlave bug
01:08 <+perlDreamer> it's weird
01:09 <+perlDreamer> that line is a bug, but it won't generate a DBI level connect error
01:09 <+perlDreamer> he says that the slave connections are all okay
01:11 <@preaction> you sure it's session.pm? not db.pm?
01:12 <@preaction> dbSlave, i see
01:12 <@preaction> wrong line
01:13 <+perlDreamer> brb
01:19 <+perlDreamer> back
01:19 <@preaction> it tries to connect to all three, that's probably bad
01:19 <+perlDreamer> yeah
01:20 <+perlDreamer> also, it tries to connect even if it is in adminMode and is going to use the main server anyway
01:20 <@preaction> it's possible that when it tries to connect the second and third time, it negates the other connections, and then it randomly selects one of the negated connections
01:21 <@preaction> though i don't see how, but whatevz
01:21 <+perlDreamer> he's getting a connect error, during connection creation
01:23 <+perlDreamer> I guess the way it's implemented now, it sprays across the servers during a page view, as opposed to randomly choosing a slave for an entire page view
01:23 <+perlDreamer> I think the second would be safer
01:24 <@preaction> might even be faster
01:24 <+perlDreamer> like 3X faster
01:26 <@preaction> where IS jt today? wonder what he's going to do about frank snaking my weekend
01:26 <@preaction> i was supposed to go down to madison to play Supreme Commander in a little LAN party
01:26 <@preaction> the git
01:48 <+perlDreamer> JT took the day off
01:49 <+perlDreamer> said something about setting up a LAN party to play SupCom with out of town guests or something
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05:57 < PedersenMJ> Good evening.
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07:06 <@preaction> possible good idea: a Dumb Container wobject to make wG dev easier. You could simply make a definition for a "Address Book Item" asset, sub-class the Dumb Container wobject to simply tell it that it should contain "Address Book Item" assets, and you have an application (in this case, an Address Book)
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16:17 < wgGuest41> hi all
16:18 < wgGuest41> Do you know which session timeout setting has plainblack.com? I need to find a compromise between usability and security
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19:01 < wgGuest74> hi
19:01 < gooeybot> bonjour, wgGuest74
19:01 < wgGuest74> thanks :)
19:01 < wgGuest74> I disconnected before
19:02 < wgGuest74> did you read my session timeout question? :)
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--- Day changed Sun Mar 04 2007
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00:08 <+perlDreamer> the deadline has passed
00:08 <+perlDreamer> we should change the title
00:08 <+perlDreamer> the pressure is now on snapcount_ and the other PB staff, who must wade through the dozens of
00:08 <+perlDreamer> wiki entries submitted by the community
00:09 <+perlDreamer> or the dozens of pages submitted by PedersenMJ for his one entry
00:18 <+perlDreamer> in any case, all of WebGUI-dom waits, breathlessly to see who will win the
00:18 <+perlDreamer> latest installment of this contest.
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06:36 < PedersenMJ> hello all
06:53 <+perlDreamer> hey, man
06:55 <+perlDreamer> hm
06:56 <+perlDreamer> say that three times fast
06:56 <+perlDreamer> petrolacasaurus
06:57 < PedersenMJ> Is that the gasoline dinosaur that also has a wall outlet in its tail?
06:59 <+perlDreamer> yup, that's him
07:00 <+perlDreamer> The Discovery Channel rocks
07:00 <+perlDreamer> so far I've found two bugs tonight from writing API tests
07:01 < PedersenMJ> unit tests are an amazing thing for finding bugs.
07:03 < PedersenMJ> I always wind up pointing to my first experience with them as evidence of their strength. I had written up (in C) mime encode/decode routines. And had checked them over pretty thoroughly, done some tests, etc. I knew they worked. And then I formalized into unit tests, and found out that one of my decide routines was missing the return statement, making it broken.
07:03 < PedersenMJ> And I had "known" that it worked just fine for months.
07:04 <+perlDreamer> that sounds like a good lesson
07:04 <+perlDreamer> my favorite one was "well, all the tests pass so the design is fine"
07:04 <+perlDreamer> that was before I learned about test coverage
07:05 < PedersenMJ> For me, that was learning about writing *any* tests :)
07:05 < PedersenMJ> However, I know that I'm weak in some testing aspects. Okay, most of them. Any good websites on how to ensure test coverage?
07:05 < PedersenMJ> Or that at least discuss it?
07:06 <+perlDreamer> I don't know of any.
07:06 <+perlDreamer> I went to an OSCON presentation last year and became a believer
07:06 <+perlDreamer> The big testing things seem to be
07:06 <+perlDreamer> 1) Write them
07:06 <+perlDreamer> well,
07:06 <+perlDreamer> 0) Write Unit tests
07:07 <+perlDreamer> 1) Run your coverage on your unit tests
07:07 <+perlDreamer> 2) write integration tests
07:07 < PedersenMJ> That's the part I'm missing.
07:07 <+perlDreamer> integration tests? WebGUI doesn't have any yet either
07:08 < PedersenMJ> I'm working on a python script that will automate a *lot* of the verification of the state of the code and docs for another set of python scripts I'm working on.
07:08 < PedersenMJ> But I have yet to even come close to finding a way to verify (programatically) that enough integration testing is being done.
07:09 <@preaction> what do you mean by integration tests?
07:09 <+perlDreamer> for wG, it would be UI level tests
07:09 <+perlDreamer> things that test multiple things together in a sequence
07:09 <@preaction> so WWW::Mechanize or a series of getPage()
07:09 <+perlDreamer> each may work correctly, but may not call among themselves correctly
07:09 < PedersenMJ> For me, integration tests would be testing the interaction of two modules.
07:10 <+perlDreamer> there may be some integration level testing now, but it's purely by accident
07:12 <+perlDreamer> I'm looking forward to the new OSCON schedule coming out
07:17 <+perlDreamer> preaction: did you read my last dev post? Am I askin' for beatin?
07:18 <@preaction> with wrapper around getLineage?
07:18 <+perlDreamer> yeah
07:19 <@preaction> i agree, actually. getLineage should be the standard method to get assets that you don't know the assetId for
07:19 <+perlDreamer> it's just the potential performance hit, maybe I should try to quantify it
07:19 <@preaction> i prefer code maintainability over performance in most cases
07:20 <+perlDreamer> I think it will save us tons of time down the road
07:20 <@preaction> i mean, it's an extra little bit to do the logic to build the SQL, but the benefits of the encapsulation outweigh that imho
07:20 <+perlDreamer> yeah. Change it in 1 place, and it works everywhere
07:20 <@preaction> then you can do optimization from inside the getLineage and everything gets the benefit
07:20 <+perlDreamer> but because it's more code, it may never reach the speed of the pure SQL query
07:21 <+perlDreamer> he'll weigh in, then we'll do it
07:21 <+perlDreamer> there are other, bigger bugs to worry about anyway
07:21 <@preaction> but getLineage will survive database schema changes, when pure SQL queries probably won't
07:22 <+perlDreamer> I agree
07:24 <+perlDreamer> I'm guessing that the problems we're seeing in the Clipboard also exist in the Trash, and in their Workflow Activities, too.
07:24 <+perlDreamer> The RTE has 4-6 semi-related open bugs
07:24 <+perlDreamer> The calendar has a new batch of bugs
07:24 <+perlDreamer> plus there's the list we've been dragging around
07:25 <+perlDreamer> It's enough to make a dev nuts
07:25 * perlDreamer screams
07:25 <+perlDreamer> shriek, shriek
07:26 <@preaction> i'm lucky, i don't get to deal with core bugs, i'm doing client work ;)
07:26 <+perlDreamer> how's that coming? Did you make your deadline?
07:27 <@preaction> no, the client data migration tool screwed my dev box three times in a row
07:27 <@preaction> and the migration tool takes about 3-4 hours to run
07:27 <@preaction> so i started on other things while that was going
07:27 <+perlDreamer> that must be some set of data
07:28 <+perlDreamer> the whole webgui test set only takes 75 minutes to run on my laptop
07:28 <@preaction> i figured out that there's a niche for a sort of "Dumb Container" wobject, that acts simply as a way to display a list of whatever asset is contained inside it
07:28 <@preaction> there's about 26,000 users
07:28 <@preaction> that's the main thing i need to migrate each time
07:28 <+perlDreamer> For the Dumb Container, it's like the Folder or CS?
07:28 <@preaction> and every time i try to make a backup, so i don't have to re-run the migration
07:28 <@preaction> it dies
07:28 <@preaction> basically
07:29 <@preaction> you'd subclass the dumb container to tell it what asset it should allow, and then write the asset's getEditForm and getTemplateVars methods
07:29 <@preaction> i've written three apps in a row now, that are basically dumb containers that make their sub-assets do all the work
07:30 <@preaction> kind of like the Calendar
07:30 <+perlDreamer> It makes sense.
07:30 <@preaction> it's more of a dev item, the dumb container itself has no value
07:30 <+perlDreamer> It may let us start to specialize the CS instead of making it so generic, which would make JT happy
07:30 <+perlDreamer> He hates that it's gotten so big
07:30 <+perlDreamer> and slow
07:31 <@preaction> well, little value, it'd be possible to make it valuable by itself
07:33 <@preaction> yeah, the CS could be a subclass of this, allowed to contain Threads
07:33 <@preaction> it might obfuscate the code a bit
07:33 <+perlDreamer> but then you could have a specialized photo gallery, and a weblog
07:34 <+perlDreamer> instead of the monster CS that does everything
07:34 <@preaction> true enough, the main code being in the Dumb Container
07:35 <+perlDreamer> Hey!
07:36 <+perlDreamer> User.pm now has 100% coverage, except for the deprecated identifier method
07:36 <@preaction> sweet
07:36 <+perlDreamer> I found two bugs while writing tests for it tonight
07:36 <+perlDreamer> and added a new method to SQL.pm, quickScalar
07:37 <@preaction> gets the first element of the first row of a query?
07:37 <+perlDreamer> yup
07:37 <+perlDreamer> that was one of the bugs that I found in User.pm
07:37 <@preaction> very good idea, too much my ($result) = $db->quickArray("query");
07:37 <@preaction> there's a lot of that in the code
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07:38 <+perlDreamer> plus, now you can do things that were broken like this:
07:38 <+perlDreamer> if (!exists $self->{_profile}{$fieldName} && !$self->session->db->quickArray("SELECT COUNT(*) FROM userProfileField WHERE fieldName = ?", [$fieldName]))
07:38 <+perlDreamer> safely
07:38 <+perlDreamer> the array always had 1 element in it, so in scalar context that part of the conditional was always true
07:39 <@preaction> yeah, i don't like the idea of that SQL query inside the IF conditional :p, cleaner to assign it to a var and test it afterward
07:39 <@preaction> but i see your point
07:40 <+perlDreamer> probably more PBP as well
07:40 <+perlDreamer> I remember thinking about that and convincing myself that it was better to do it this way....
07:41 <+perlDreamer> oh, I remember
07:41 <+perlDreamer> inside the conditional, it only does the query if the profile field doesn't exist
07:42 <@preaction> if you put it as the first line inside the conditional, it's the same thing?
07:42 <+perlDreamer> via nesting? yes
07:42 <@preaction> rather, after the ) {
07:43 <+perlDreamer> I see what you mean, now
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13:37 < TheSeparator> Looks like Spectre on the Plainblack.com server is on strike...
13:41 < TheSeparator> no new posts appear
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04:05 < PedersenMJ> heya
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10:11 < php-freak> is this a xampp channel?
10:11 < Hinrik> why would you think that?
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15:20 < Hinrik> how does one make a package?
15:21 < Hinrik> the only think I see is a "Make package?" question under the metadata tab with a yes/no radio button
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15:54 < pjesi> what if you select @yes@
15:56 < Hinrik> nm
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15:58 < SDuensin> Good morning!
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16:11 < Hinrik> hm, when I try to export a package I created, it just gives me:
16:11 < Hinrik> The requested URL /uploads/temp/JN/JNVATRUgdbd70zMSEkKpLw was not found on this server.
16:11 < Hinrik> it's not a permission problem, this file simply wasn't created
16:12 < Hinrik> if I create the package again, I get the same, just a different URL
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18:01 < snapcount_> Bueller
18:01 < snapcount_> Bueller
18:01 < snapcount_> Bueller
18:01 <@preaction> He's home sick
18:01 < snapcount_> Hinrik: check your error logs, they will guide you to the answers you seek
18:02 < Hinrik> yeah...
--- Log opened Mon Mar 05 18:59:09 2007
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19:11 <+perlDreamer> getAssetsInClipboard really wants to be a class method
19:18 <+perlDreamer> Is anyone else able to use the newly updated Weather Asset?
19:26 < ckotil> havent tried.
19:26 < ckotil> i could check it out, if you want me to
19:26 < ckotil> im not doing anything else really
19:26 < ckotil> just waiting for workflows to cook off
19:27 <+perlDreamer> Please give it a shot
19:27 <+perlDreamer> I think there's a naming problem
19:28 <+perlDreamer> It has to be called Weather::Simple
19:28 <+perlDreamer> but it has to be installed as Weather::Com::Simple
19:28 < ckotil> i need to install htat.
19:28 < ckotil> first.
19:28 < ckotil> so what module am i installing ?
19:29 <+perlDreamer> Weather::Com::Simple
19:29 <+perlDreamer> perl -MCPAN -e shell
19:29 <+perlDreamer> force install Weather::Com::Simple
19:29 < ckotil> got it
19:30 <+perlDreamer> It has a poorly written test that assumes that this year is 2005, that's why the force
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19:31 < ckotil> is the new weather asset enabled by default?
19:32 <+perlDreamer> I think so
19:32 < ckotil> k. i need to register somewhere right?
19:32 <+perlDreamer> webgui.conf
19:35 < ckotil> ok, is there an article i can read to see what i gotta do?
19:35 <+perlDreamer> just become admin and turn on admin
19:35 < ckotil> well yeah
19:35 <+perlDreamer> if you can deploy it, it will show up in the admin bar
19:36 < ckotil> i add it and commit and it disappears.
19:36 < ckotil> i didnt configure it in webgui.conf bc i dunno wtf to do
19:36 <+perlDreamer> You just add WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData to your assets
19:36 <+perlDreamer> that's all the config
19:36 < ckotil> o
19:36 < ckotil> i thought we had to register with some www to retrieve info
19:37 < ckotil> well im to the point where i add it from the new content bar
19:37 < ckotil> commit.
19:37 < ckotil> dissapeared
19:38 <+perlDreamer> which WebGUI are you running?
19:38 < ckotil> .10
19:38 < ckotil> i can move to .11 if you need me to. im working this on my dev box
19:38 <+perlDreamer> yeah, that would be good
19:38 <+perlDreamer> this new code was added in .11
19:39 < ckotil> k
19:41 < ckotil> no weather data asset now
19:41 < ckotil> and that line is in my conf
19:41 < snapcount_> perlDreamer: thx for all the bug work you've been up to lately
19:42 <+perlDreamer> you're welcome
19:42 <+perlDreamer> I'm bored to tears at work
19:42 <+perlDreamer> No projects for 7 weeks now
19:42 <+perlDreamer> without wG, I'd be a wreck
19:42 < snapcount_> yay for