WebGUI irc logs from: 2010-09.log

--- Log opened Wed Sep 01 00:00:24 2010
elnino	how do you setup the amount a vendor gets in the payout?	00:01
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r83f0cb7 / t/Storage.t : diag -> note (+5 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/bM7LV4	00:06
elnino	how do I add a new release to my bazzar item? I'll I see when I edit it, is "this release" and it has the first versions information prefilled.	00:11
CIA-21	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r91fcedd / www/extras/admin/admin.js : all admin plugins have the same response options - http://bit.ly/bgzamc	00:11
CIA-21	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r2f949cf / share/upgrades/7.9.12-8.0.0/admin_console.wgpkg : admin console style should not define a title - http://bit.ly/cXldNh	00:11
CIA-21	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r945d78c / (www/extras/admin/admin.css www/extras/admin/admin.js): add openTab function for admin plugins - http://bit.ly/9h9aun	00:11
CIA-21	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * ra18463a / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : add helpers in the config file - http://bit.ly/cnmPNm	00:11
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elnino	I get it.	00:31
elnino	still don't know how to setup vendor payout though.	00:31
@preaction	you have to create a new workflow i think. uses the Vendor Payout activity and configured with your paypal information	00:45
@preaction	iirc right now we only support vendor payouts via paypal	00:45
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SynQ	good	01:46
SynQ	all the cardboard work is done :)	01:46
SynQ	now all I have to do is clean out the attic for the painters to have free room tomorrow :P	01:47
SynQ	and it's only a quarter to one	01:47
SynQ	can someone bring me back two BigIron 4000's from the states?	01:49
SynQ	in their handluggage?	01:49
SynQ	oh four is ok too :P	01:50
SynQ	they are only 4U high each so it should fit	01:50
SynQ	http://tiny.cc/jkwbt	01:51
SynQ	that one is only 100 usd	01:51
SynQ	WA must be close to WI ;)	01:51
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SynQ	good	02:37
SynQ	time 4 bed	02:38
SynQ	nite	02:38
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elnino	preaction, so it does it automatically? cool.	03:40
elnino	I was just looking to do a report of some sort.	03:41
elnino	hm I don't see an activity.	03:42
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elnino	good morning! people who do templates - have you run into htc files? What are they and why do they break everything?	16:22
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patspam	haaaaaack	17:19
elnino	good morning patspam.. are you referring to my question? or something you're doing. =)	17:20
patspam	morning elnino!	17:20
patspam	that was WUC hackathon parlance for "goodmorning"	17:20
elnino	are you in the us?	17:20
patspam	yeah!	17:20
elnino	oh. Is that now?	17:20
patspam	yep yep, you still have time to get here :)	17:20
elnino	oh. I wanted to. I have two children now... someone has to watch them...	17:21
patspam	I supposed that's a valid excuse :)	17:21
elnino	I was kinda wondering why it was so quite here.... Say hi to everyone that I know/knows me. =) and ask perlDreamer, if he ever got that flash file thing to work on that one site.	17:22
elnino	s/quite/quiet	17:24
@preaction	elnino: htc files are hacky ways for IE to add scripted behaviors to CSS	17:25
patspam	long answer from colin: apparently no he didn't get it working	17:27
@preaction	1 RFEs have been closed in the last 24 hrs <- BAM!	17:33
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elnino	preaction - they are nothing but TROUBLE. I converted a design, and it would not work untill I got rid of the reference to htc file. I do not like them sam I am.	17:52
@preaction	yeah, unfortunately sometimes they're the only way to get IE to listen to something. though, personally, if you have to hack the design like that, the design should change	17:52
+perlDreamer	... or IE should change :)	17:55
@preaction	mountain vs. raindrop. we're winning, but egads how long this battle	17:56
elnino	funny 404 error message. it made me laugh "We've got the guys with pocket protectors working to upgrade your web experience as we speak. We apologize for the inconvenience. Please try back later. Or, feel free to check out some of our most popular pages."	18:03
* perlDreamer puts "pocket protector" on his shopping list		18:10
CIA-21	webgui: Paul Driver webgui-7.9 * r7a526b6 / www/extras/shop/cart.js : should actually fix the bug when we note it in the changelog - http://bit.ly/chdRi4	18:19
CIA-21	webgui: Paul Driver master * re8dfffe / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt www/extras/shop/cart.js): should actually fix the bug when we note it in the changelog - http://bit.ly/aDjm4n	18:22
scrottie0	good morning...	18:27
+perlDreamer	yo, scrottie0	18:28
scrottie0	where is the hack-a-thon and is there coffee?	18:28
scrottie0	sorry I'm late. I had to blow dry my computer.	18:28
scrottie0	the harddrive is still being blowdried.	18:28
+perlDreamer	the hackathon is where the conference will be tomorrow	18:28
+perlDreamer	and there is coffee	18:29
+perlDreamer	and pastries	18:29
+perlDreamer	and muffins	18:29
+perlDreamer	and soda	18:29
+perlDreamer	and water	18:29
+perlDreamer	and bits	18:29
+perlDreamer	and electrons	18:29
scrottie0	I'll ask at the front desk for the conference area.	18:30
+perlDreamer	it's either the 2nd floor, or the mezzanine level	18:31
+perlDreamer	first floor above the lobby	18:32
scrottie0	ah. okay.	18:32
SynQ	is bart awake yet?	18:36
+perlDreamer	Bart who?	18:37
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patspam	SynQ: we drank some spotted cows for you last night	18:48
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb8d7466 / (5 files in 5 dirs): Add a link in the Admin Console to the Addons section of webgui.org - http://bit.ly/auU2GN	19:00
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CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rd826721 / (26 files in 2 dirs): move upgrade scripts for new version - http://bit.ly/cj2LGC	19:21
patspam	preaction: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/10659	19:29
elnino	patspam - excellent!	19:30
+perlDreamer	patspam, preaction, sample introspection code is Group.pm, resetGroupFields	19:30
patspam	it's all coming back to me shudder	19:30
+perlDreamer	I can't believe I'm going to say this	19:30
+perlDreamer	it's probably best to copy and paste that method to change it for templates	19:31
+perlDreamer	for two reasons	19:31
+perlDreamer	we don't have a top level class to hold the definition introspection stuff	19:31
+perlDreamer	and all the rest is hard-coded	19:31
@preaction	it's very close, but not exactly what templates need, and they will diverge as time goes on. no use trying to make it overly complicated for code reuse's sake	19:32
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elnino	is there a way to regenerate an images thumbnail? I need to resize them all in a gallery	19:54
+perlDreamer	elnino, sounds like a utility script	19:54
elnino	k	19:55
+perlDreamer	so I'd look in sbin to see if there's something in there	19:55
elnino	I see marketplace was renamed. Kinda freaked me out not seeing "marketplace" but I like the new menu better.	19:57
+perlDreamer	there's also a new Admin Console icon to take you there	19:58
elnino	ah. that's what that cia-21 thing was.	19:58
elnino	excellent idea.	19:59
+perlDreamer	yes, CIA-21 shows git commits to the WebGUI repo	19:59
elnino	yep. I just didn't know what "plug-ins" was until now. =)	19:59
elnino	s/plug-ins/addons	19:59
elnino	looky there, thumbnailer.pl	20:02
elnino	ack. wiki changed!	20:08
+perlmonkey2	did the dbms change in 8 or still with mysql?	20:12
patspam	so far mysql	20:14
elnino	I don't get the new wiki. =(	20:14
patspam	still trying to get doug drunk enough that I can convince him to switch to postgres	20:15
patspam	SynQ: just got WebGUI running under Mongrel2	20:15
patspam	but only via a proxy so far, which is kinda cheating	20:15
+perlmonkey2	too bad 8 cant be dbms agnostic.	20:16
+perlDreamer	patspam, this channel is logged	20:16
CIA-21	webgui: JT Smith WebGUI8 * r5723af9 / (etc/WebGUI.conf.original lib/WebGUI/Content/FacebookAuth.pm): updated facebook auth to work with new facebook change/brokeness - http://bit.ly/c5adkj	20:17
CIA-21	webgui: JT Smith WebGUI8 * r83c2629 / (49 files in 14 dirs): Merge branch 'WebGUI8' of github.com:plainblack/webgui into WebGUI8 - http://bit.ly/buhrAx	20:17
scrottie0	postgres++	20:19
@frodwith	scrottie0++ # ++ing postgres	20:19
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CIA-21	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r99619c8 / (lib/WGDev.pm lib/WGDev/Command.pm lib/WGDev/Command/Base.pm): update version to 0.8.0 (+8 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/9XcHZv	20:43
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scrottie0	http://slowass.net/~scott/tmp/gim.png	21:18
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5765739 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Labels in the Cart for addresses are optional. They take the first line of the address if left blank. Tested w and w/o JS. - http://bit.ly/9uz9hE	22:24
+perlDreamer	it's awfully quiet out there	22:32
@preaction	echo!	22:32
* scrottie0 nods at perlDreamer		22:34
+BartJol	I do have some music	22:35
scrottie0	oh noes, not again!	22:35
elnino	helloooooo!	22:38
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+BartJol	what, did I put on music before in your presence scrottie0?	22:40
scrottie0	oh noes was re: the pub.	22:41
CIA-21	webgui: Paul Driver master * rc89da43 / (5 files in 3 dirs): variable downgrading - http://bit.ly/bZGYJf	22:44
* SynQ goes wow for patspam		22:46
@frodwith	hmm! http://blogs.perl.org/users/leon_timmermans/2010/08/yet-another-readonly-module.html	22:56
@frodwith	I know we don't end up using Readonly a lot, but this looks nice.	22:56
@preaction	what's the debian policy on .swf files? they're compiled bytecode. we don't have the mxml, as, or fla file it came from (referring to ukplayer)	23:03
Haarg	that new readonly module looks cool	23:03
Haarg	Readonly.pm always seemed pointless to me	23:03
Haarg	too many problems but very little advantage to using it	23:04
@preaction	http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=592593 <- prior art. docuwiki had the fla even, but fla cannot be built with free software	23:04
scrottie0	no strict 'subs'; no strict refs; use strict subs;	23:07
scrottie0	my $fn = __FILE__; my @string = eval `grep $fn -e '^use WebGUI' -e '^use Plack' \| sed -e 's!use !"!' -e 's!;!",!'`; # earlier today...	23:10
* SynQ knows that a webgui site is going to be used in China very soon		23:12
@preaction	sweet	23:12
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra95ef16 / (345 files in 55 dirs): remove use of FindBin in tests - http://bit.ly/cSDfw0	23:12
SynQ	http://www.winket.nl	23:12
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * red3ac1c / lib/WebGUI/Upgrade.pm : update upgrade docs - http://bit.ly/dg7KP9	23:12
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rc59fc0f / (lib/WebGUI/Account.pm lib/WebGUI/BestPractices.pm): add WebGUI::BestPractices - http://bit.ly/bVSGid	23:12
SynQ	currently in Dutch only	23:12
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SynQ	can someone tap on BartJol's shoulder perhaps and point him to his irc window? :)	23:13
+perlDreamer	bartjol is afk right now, SynQ.	23:14
SynQ	what time is it now?	23:14
SynQ	15:15?	23:14
+perlDreamer	15:15 CDT, yes	23:15
+perlDreamer	ah, he's back	23:15
SynQ	ah good :)	23:15
+perlDreamer	run for the hills, BartJol	23:16
+BartJol	too late :)	23:16
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@preaction	does anyone know why we build our own "Ask About Using Rich Editor" and don't use TinyMCE's built-in one?	23:49
+perlDreamer	TinyMCE's is broken	23:50
@preaction	how so?	23:51
@preaction	didn't do as advertised? was it a bug in tinymce? was it fixed?	23:51
+perlDreamer	IIRC, doesn't work correctly in some browser	23:51
* perlDreamer recommends checking the revision logs and git blame		23:51
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7d6089d / (2 files in 2 dirs): Change the addon URL on webgui.org - http://bit.ly/abaxjv	00:22
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CIA-21	webgui: Doug Bell master * r55e6284 / sbin/classLoadTest.pl : add classLoadTest.pl - http://bit.ly/aP1Oc2	06:23
elnino	anyone heard of this? http://www.uniformserver.com/	06:31
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elnino_	anyone seen this before: http://www.ohloh.net/p/WebGUI/analyses/latest	07:04
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+perlDreamer	good morning everyone	16:51
+perlDreamer	welcome to the live IRC-cast of the WUC 2010 opening plenary	16:51
+perlDreamer	the session won't begin for about 10 minutes, so you have time to get some coffee	16:52
@preaction	IT BEGINS! MUAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA	17:02
scrottie0	good morning, perlDreamer.	17:04
+perlDreamer	you're up early, scrottie0	17:04
+perlDreamer	The winner of the Contributor of the Year award goes to Patrick Donelan!	17:05
+perlDreamer	congrats, patspam	17:05
@preaction	WOOOOOOO	17:05
scrottie0	perlDreamer, now and then I get up at 4:30am to go do crazy adventure stuff.	17:05
+perlDreamer	Contributor of the Year award goes to United Knowledge	17:05
scrottie0	w00t	17:06
+perlDreamer	WebGUI 8...	17:07
+perlDreamer	The big goal is performance	17:07
scrottie0	elnino_, re: http://www.ohloh.net/p/WebGUI/analyses/latest, neato!	17:07
+perlDreamer	WebGUI 8 is 700% faster than WebGUI 7	17:08
+perlDreamer	some of the improvements were backported in 7.8 and 7.9	17:08
@preaction	Frank is 4%! Frank is 4%!	17:08
+perlDreamer	the lion's share of 8's improvements comes from Plack/Starman	17:08
+perlDreamer	after that, it's Moose, new UI (kudos preaction!) better caching and faster groups	17:09
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+perlDreamer	"the new UI is so fast that it feels like a native desktop application"	17:11
scrottie0	Starman is the new default webserver.	17:11
scrottie0	No exceptions! I mean, more exceptions!	17:16
scrottie0	ugh. nothing is completely tested.	17:17
+perlDreamer	the new Admin Console UI is beautiful	17:23
+perlDreamer	it optimizes space	17:23
+perlDreamer	and is AJAXified, so it runs really fast	17:23
+perlDreamer	your current version tag is at the top of the screen, along with controls for publishing (committing) or leaving the tag	17:25
+perlDreamer	the Admin Bar (which is now integrated into the Console fully) is also AJAXy	17:25
+perlDreamer	the new Debug console rocks	17:26
+perlDreamer	this is run through Plack Middleware	17:26
@frodwith	everyone++. I haven't been keeping up with webgui 8 development, you all have added some ridiculously cool things.	17:30
+perlDreamer	we can't wait for you to come and play with 8, frodwith	17:31
@preaction	Haarg++ patspam++ vanguard of WebGUI 8 development!	17:31
patspam	plus perlDreamer++ and preaction++!	17:32
+perlDreamer	webgui 8 will simplify content approval	17:32
@frodwith	hopefully by this time next year, we can get all our users upgraded to 8 so we can take advantage of all this awesomeness ^_-	17:32
+perlDreamer	it has a simplified grammar	17:32
+perlDreamer	commit = publish	17:32
+perlDreamer	instead of having screens for different asset tag states (committed, pending), it's all unified into a color coded display	17:34
+perlDreamer	that is sortable	17:34
@preaction	frodwith: we will likely spend all of next year making documentation and utilities to make it as easy as possible to migrate custom stuff to 8	17:34
@preaction	8 is far more extensible, less copy/paste, fewer hacks, etc...	17:35
+perlDreamer	you can view and edit the pending content (or older content) right from the content manager screen	17:35
+perlDreamer	content approval is also inlined into the edit screen, if you have permissions to publish content	17:36
@preaction	and if a template isn't automatically upgraded, it means we screwed up and have a bug to fix	17:37
scrottie0	perlDreamer, what the heck is tavis on about?	17:38
+perlDreamer	not sure what you mean, scrottie0	17:38
scrottie0	_AND_ _UPDATE_.	17:41
+perlDreamer	hm	17:42
+perlDreamer	tavis is on about 3 feet behind you	17:42
@preaction	it's still our burden as well. actually i'll probably start spending a few hours a week updating the things	17:42
+perlDreamer	all of the WebGUI books are being converted to a wiki	17:43
+perlDreamer	and being released to the community	17:43
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scrottie0	Pluggable admin panes inherit from WebGUI::Admin::Plugin.	18:04
scrottie0	It's bug free and it can do pretty much anything.	18:06
scrottie0	* Some quotes might be out of context.	18:06
scrottie0	Admin items let you write small apps without having to create a full asset, define database tables, etc.	18:10
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scrottie0	Doug went a little bit crazy.	18:20
Haarg	went?	18:20
+BartJol	too obvious Haarg	18:21
scrottie0	"I went a little bit crazy." - Doug.	18:21
scrottie0	we are watching WebGUI8 copy the import node to the clipboard.	18:22
scrottie0	we are watching a copy operation.	18:22
scrottie0	it has a progress bar.	18:22
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scrottie0	Joeri doesn't like Javascript or Objective C. Hateful hater and his hatey hate.	19:04
@preaction	ObjC is hateful	19:05
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@preaction	JS not as much, it's the "we have 30 implementations that don't talk to each other" hatefulness	19:05
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+perlDreamer	BartJol: ning is interested in international content and stuff. She could use a talk from the expert if you have time.	19:23
+BartJol	sure	19:23
+BartJol	but that was last year	19:24
+BartJol	I do have the presentation with me though	19:24
@preaction	we need internationalized assets. soon.	19:24
+BartJol	that would be great	19:25
+BartJol	I only know the german thingy implementation	19:25
@preaction	i've had ideas of how we could do it for a looong time, but it's very disruptive to how assets work	19:25
+BartJol	so WG 9?	19:25
+BartJol	or earlier?	19:25
@preaction	not API-breakingly disruptive, but custom code would need updates to use it properly	19:25
@preaction	so it's possible during the 8.x cycle, but 8.x development is going to be fairly different from 7.x development (and it's not something i've been able to fully flesh out in my head)	19:26
+BartJol	what is the general idea?	19:26
+BartJol	in 1 line?	19:26
@preaction	certain asset properties are marked "translatable", then an interface to add translations for all translatable content	19:27
@preaction	then a method to get the translations right before the vars are passed to the template	19:27
@preaction	so not so horrible, but potentially evil	19:27
+BartJol	could it be dependant on the "language" scrach variable?	19:28
+BartJol	not sure you want that actually	19:28
+BartJol	that would also constantly update the WebGUI interface language	19:28
@preaction	the "Default" being shown perhaps, but there'd be a way to see the other translations by links on the page (added a loop to the template to show which translations are there)	19:29
@preaction	right, which is different. martin (german martin) has suggested them be different, and i've agreed (or maybe you suggested it)	19:29
+BartJol	but there must be a session property that remember what language has your preference	19:29
@preaction	of course	19:29
+BartJol	it is martien btw	19:30
@preaction	ah, thought i was spelling it wrong	19:30
@preaction	but yes	19:30
+BartJol	but I agree	19:30
+BartJol	whoohoo, we agree	19:30
@preaction	i want i18n content, but the solutions proposed have been marginal. adding more problems	19:30
+BartJol	is there a forum thread on those proposed solutions?	19:31
@preaction	no. i haven't revealed these ideas yet. that's part of my plan to reveal these ideas to a blog or the dev forum as time goes on	19:32
+BartJol	or are you referring to my LanguagePageSwitch macro?	19:32
@preaction	so that if someone wants, they can implement it themselves, or at least offer suggestions	19:32
+BartJol	which is hardly userfriendly	19:32
@preaction	no, martien's content macro, macros have problems with arbitrary content inside them (can break the macro, and then the site)	19:33
+BartJol	ah, that one	19:33
+BartJol	would it possible to have i18n'd urls with your solution?	19:34
+BartJol	or maybe even necessary	19:34
@preaction	yes. i18n urls are possible, but only one url to one asset so far. we want to be able to just say, in the asset properties, all the possible URLs for that asset, but that may or may not go in soon	19:35
@preaction	that's a database schema break, so i may consider it an API break	19:35
@preaction	so it'd have to be done before January or not at all	19:35
+BartJol	mmm, no not necessary, that would be bad, some things you don't want to translate	19:36
@preaction	but shortcuts are still possible	19:36
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@preaction	true	19:36
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+BartJol	but there also should be an option to switch webgui and content language at the same time. It mightg be confusing to users that they need to click twice	19:38
+BartJol	prolly that would need 2 contenthandlers at the same time, which is a problem	19:38
+BartJol	depending on how the content language is switched	19:39
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Haarg	perlDreamer, apparently i'm writing the translation server from scratch as a plack app. we'll see how that goes.	19:42
+perlDreamer	okey-doke	19:42
+perlDreamer	I'll see about getting you some SVN data for a trial git conversion	19:42
+BartJol	"apparently" :)	19:42
Haarg	i got the svn repo from doug	19:42
+perlDreamer	see y'all at lunch	19:47
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@preaction	Talk idea: You got your WordPress/MediaWiki/Something in my WebGUI!	19:58
@preaction	slug ID is a good idea for i18n content too. no breaking inside asset, just a new asset with some sort of relationship between the entire series	20:00
+BartJol	yeah	20:00
@preaction	so they are completely separate assets, but they're related by an ID	20:00
@preaction	that would probably be a LOT easier to put in	20:01
+BartJol	that is better than my lineage dependancy	20:01
+BartJol	whic breaks easily	20:01
@preaction	switching would be weird though. if they're assets they show up on the page / in the CS / in the Calendar. which one shows up? add something to getLineage would work, but piling onto that is starting to be problematic	20:04
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CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rcacaabe / lib/WebGUI/Upgrade.pm : listen to skipBackup upgrade option - http://bit.ly/bV0x2i	21:48
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rd7ff3ea / lib/WebGUI/Upgrade.pm : silence all upgrade output with quiet option - http://bit.ly/cRikAp	21:48
scrottie0	Yay Continuity!	21:50
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patspam	SynQ: you missed a ute photo in my talk	22:28
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf65ae74 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Format the subtotal variable in the Payment driver to 2 decimal places. Fixes bug #11813 - http://bit.ly/8XAnhg	22:53
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rfd565f2 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Format the subtotal variable in the Payment driver to 2 decimal places. Fixes bug #11813 - http://bit.ly/bmCRNF	22:53
scrottie0	usually it's google analytics holding stuff up. thanks, google.	23:13
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r02099f0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix HTML table generation for Active Sessions. Fixes bug #11832 - http://bit.ly/9ne9fo	23:16
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r055b72d / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix HTML table generation for Active Sessions. Fixes bug #11832 - http://bit.ly/dcZGcX	23:17
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1f2fbeb / lib/WebGUI/Account/Shop.pm : Remove debug code. - http://bit.ly/99zGUG	23:26
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * re61b997 / lib/WebGUI/Upgrade.pm : fix thing i broke - http://bit.ly/9aWOEQ	23:27
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--- Day changed Fri Sep 03 2010
patspam	Haarg: http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/commit/c59fc0f361ffe096faa0717cecfd820f3061e6e8	00:03
patspam	(github notes)	00:03
patspam	kinda clunky to push notes around though (git push origin refs/notes/commits)	00:04
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb1adfd2 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm): Fix missing Attachment label in the Template. - http://bit.ly/dcJMos	00:08
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * ra8d6aeb / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm): Fix missing Attachment label in the Template. - http://bit.ly/dAFtEq	00:08
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CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * re61b997 / lib/WebGUI/Upgrade.pm : fix thing i broke (+1703 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/9gs7qe	00:19
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elnino	hello! having fun yet?	05:26
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elnino_	goo morning!	16:10
elnino_	having fun yet??? what version is recommed to have ffor a full blown/vender payout store? - the version I have is half implemented. =(	16:11
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@preaction	elnino_: most definitely the latest 7.9.x version, but still you have to configure the vendor payouts with your paypal id, and we only support paypal payouts unfortunately	16:50
ckotil	how about the survey asset?	16:53
ckotil	it's a bit wonky in 7.8.20	16:53
ckotil	tho still in beta as of 7.8.20	16:54
elnino_	preaction - thanks. has the template improved yet in 7.9?	16:54
elnino_	s/template/templates in the shop	16:54
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@preaction	elnino_: which ones? the cart is far more streamlined. you can test via http://beta.webgui.org if you like	17:04
scrottie0	what important announcements did I otherwise miss? had 9:30 in my head, not 8:30. I was actually headed for breakfast when I double checked.	17:05
elnino_	it is clunky as far as user registration and purchase goes. and the templates are a bit. um. ugly.	17:05
elnino_	in 7.7	17:05
elnino_	I'll take a look at the beta.	17:06
@preaction	scrottie0: none really, just a reminder to fill out the surveys and "the presentations next are..."	17:16
scrottie0	preaction, thanks.	17:18
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ckotil	survey seems improved in the beta. im hung up on an issue in 7.8.20 where you cant save any text for a new question.	17:25
@preaction	ckotil: yeah. survey has been under heavy bugfixing since it was introduced. it's getting (finally) pretty stable	17:26
ckotil	awesome. it will be a nice addition	17:29
ckotil	looks very useful for in the a classroom :)	17:30
ckotil	i had to crank out a survey the other day, and i ended up using the dataform	17:30
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elnino_	nice map asset!	18:23
elnino_	well, I'm looking at the beta. I'm confused. the vendor payment hasn't changed.	18:25
elnino_	how does one setup that the vendor gets 10% of the sales?	18:25
elnino_	or is it assumed they get 100%?	18:25
elnino_	in our case, we are doing royalties, not vendor payout.	18:26
elnino_	maybe there is a difference. =(	18:26
scrottie0	does JavaScript implement the yadda yadda yadda operator?	18:27
scrottie0	</sarcastic>	18:27
@preaction	elnino_: it may not be possible yet. we've had someone be interested in sponsoring it, but they've not come through with the funding yet	18:29
+BartJol	mmm, lemme have a look, we might have done that	18:30
elnino_	grr. who do I talk to about $$ to finish that?	18:30
@preaction	well, the API doesn't allow multiple vendors	18:30
+BartJol	nope	18:31
elnino_	well, a product can only have one vendor. then there is the store owners. the vendor gets % and the store owner gets the rest.	18:31
elnino_	so you only need one vendor.	18:31
* elnino_ is confused		18:31
@preaction	right, but with multiple vendors you'd be able to say one vendor is the shop owner, and the other is getting the royalties. and it would work on percentages or amounts	18:32
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r81dd8d6 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Fix whitespace issue in the changelog. - http://bit.ly/cGcxJj	18:32
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r57c49e7 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Fix whitespace issue in the changelog. - http://bit.ly/cgPqlV	18:32
elnino_	mm. k	18:32
scrottie0	Frank is removing thumbs.	18:51
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scrottie0	this is my favorite yet: http://slowass.net/~scott/tmp/wg8.png	21:58
patspam	Haarg: how do I get svn to show commits that match a given string (matching the code that was changed, not the commit message)	22:02
Haarg	svn?	22:02
patspam	yeah	22:02
patspam	pity me	22:02
patspam	short of importing it into git...	22:02
Haarg	i was going to say	22:02
Haarg	step 1, import to git	22:02
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elnino_	I'm getting a "Unable to extract package! The package may be corrupt, or there may be a server error preventing packages from being imported. " fro 7.7.28 to 7.8.23 - ideas?	05:22
elnino_	I don'thave access to the logs. =( but I'm askign for them.	05:22
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zylopfa	Hello all	05:38
zylopfa	anyone got problems also installing CHI-0.36?	05:38
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SVIFI	Hello	11:15
SVIFI	Anyone is familiar with ^Emask(); fature?	11:15
SVIFI	why could it work on some pages but not on others?	11:16
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Haarg	SVIFI, that looks to be a very old macro. i wouldn't expect it to work at all.	14:33
SVIFI	found a solution already, it actually was Filter code setting blocking it	14:51
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xdanger	I've been thinking of writing a new Emask macro	16:05
xdanger	maybe one that would implement multible "masking" functions	16:10
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@preaction	what does Emask do?	17:28
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SVIFI	masks e-mail addresses	17:59
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@scrottie	yarrrr.	19:36
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@scrottie	second hack-a-thon project ran long. http://localhost:5000/crystalx_style?func=edit;proceed=goBackToPage;returnUrl=/home/welcome triggers a die planted in Template in my branch: http://github.com/scrottie/webgui/commit/a28e0995d141fdbe37e4b1f2f3210cb904780231	23:52
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@scrottie	the code does the goofy asset dump thing. it takes a lot of CPU and should be a debug option. that still needs to be cleaned up. it's just a demo.	23:52
@scrottie	hey patspam.	23:52
patspam	heya	23:52
@scrottie	just the man I should be talking to. can you comment on my Asset.pm changes in http://github.com/scrottie/webgui/commit/a28e0995d141fdbe37e4b1f2f3210cb904780231 ? specifically, what implications are there of not returning a callback if we're not streaming?	23:53
patspam	sure, will check it out in an hour or two	23:54
@scrottie	cool.	23:54
@scrottie	oops, missing a file from that mess.	23:55
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xdanger	O, joy... my macbook won't boot up, and in single user mode it says I/O Error for the harddrive.	00:32
@preaction	frank just had that same problem today	00:46
@preaction	so then i shouldn't install the security update?	00:47
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scrottie0	grr.	01:01
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scrottie0	GRR.	02:55
scrottie0	I love my little local ISP but they use Cox's crummy network. that would be okay but I need something redundant for the long haul chunk too and the copper is miserable in the neighborhood and USWest's prices are out of control.	03:01
scrottie0	no muni wireless in Phoenix.	03:01
scrottie0	so I have to cancel that DSL, get another provider with a different backend, get Cox, and get a different wireless carrier cuz T-Mobile cut me off.	03:01
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scrottie0	http://github.com/scrottie/webgui/commit/1f7075ce9261824b883d7d0f7a924a4ab064dcbb # fixed, finally	03:20
scrottie0	"Our new routes should propagate to the Intenret within the hour." http://fastq.com/ ... oh, good, I'm glad I'll be able to get back on the Intenret.	03:31
scrottie0	fat fingered sysadmins make the rockin' world go round.	03:32
scrottie0	http://twitter.com/Crell/status/23183942746 # ""Know where in this giant array whose structure changes out from underneath you you need to iterate" is not an API. #drupal #epicfail"	03:48
scrottie0	no tasks emails this Monday?	03:59
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SquOnk	Greetings.	05:01
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SDuensin	I have returned!	18:05
@preaction	yay!	18:06
SDuensin	Dude, I remember none of last week.	18:06
SDuensin	Anybody need a fun few hour project? http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/API#Sample_API_Examples_(JSP,_PHP,_Python_...)	18:07
@preaction	no Perl bindings	18:08
SDuensin	Don't need 'em. Whole API is REST.	18:09
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SquOnk	Greetings	18:16
SDuensin	Hey SquOnk	18:20
SquOnk	SDuensin: Hey there	18:25
SDuensin	preaction: Done yet? :-)	18:26
+bartjol	can it be that the current git wg8 branch doesn't run?	18:27
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+perlDreamer	morning, everyone!	18:27
+bartjol	howdy	18:27
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SDuensin	Hey perlDreamer	18:28
@preaction	bartjol: it should. how are you running it? do you have the WebGUI::Paths module in your PERL5LIB (usually export PERL5LIB=/data/WebGUI/lib)	18:28
+perlDreamer	yo SD!	18:28
+bartjol	ah, it is in my wre lib	18:28
+bartjol	Rory is getting the some errors, but they are Paths module related, at least it gives errors when I look at localhost:5000	18:29
+perlDreamer	that's the problem right there, bartjol	18:30
+perlDreamer	don't look at localhost:5000	18:30
+perlDreamer	and the problem will go away ;)	18:30
Haarg	how are you starting it and what errors are you getting?	18:30
+bartjol	plackup app.psgi	18:30
Haarg	we saw a problem previously where not having WebGUI::Paths in @INC would cause it to fail in a very weird way but were later unable to reproduce it	18:31
+bartjol	plackup --server Starman	18:31
+bartjol	and some other options	18:31
+bartjol	phone at my ear	18:31
+bartjol	ryuu_ro: do you have those errors ready?	18:32
+bartjol	they are on my laptop. while my im client runs on another	18:32
ryuu_ro	one moment let me check	18:33
ryuu_ro	hmm, i've closed my VM so I have to start it up again	18:33
ryuu_ro	that takes some time	18:33
+bartjol	ah, would you please be so kind, then I can give some attention to my customer	18:35
ryuu_ro	yep it's booting up	18:35
+bartjol	thank you	18:35
SquOnk	Are the UKPlayer source files available anywhere?	18:40
SquOnk	(I mean the sources for the .swf)	18:40
ryuu_ro	ok here it is, in Plack/App/URLMap.pm we have no SCRIPT_NAME variabele	18:40
ryuu_ro	I'm guessing that's the problem	18:40
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, only from UK, as far as I know	18:42
SquOnk	Hmm.	18:43
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I have a Debian bug complaining that there are no sources for the .swf files :/	18:44
+perlDreamer	I would start a thread over on the wgdev list	18:44
+perlDreamer	and hopefully arjan will say something	18:44
SquOnk	perlDreamer: That would be expressInstall.swf, slideShow.swf and the Tutorial.swf	18:44
SquOnk	...Tutorial.swf being in uploads/	18:44
+perlDreamer	since we have the Carousel, we don't really need ukplayer in the core any longer	18:44
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Well, that would be a nice removal from 7.9.14...	18:45
SquOnk	...one less Debian RC Bug :-)	18:45
+perlDreamer	yes, but if they're willing to give use the source, that would be good too	18:45
SquOnk	Yes	18:45
+perlDreamer	it's too late in the Dutch day to just remove it without a chance for them to respond	18:45
Haarg	perlDreamer, do you happen to know the places you ran into where namespace::autoclean caused issues?	18:46
SquOnk	perlDreamer: It's summer. The Dutch day is looooong :-)	18:46
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, then the sooner you post to dev the better ;)	18:46
SquOnk	How about Tutorial.swf in uploads/... still needed?	18:46
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I'd have to check the logs in 8	18:46
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+perlDreamer	it would be single line commits from me with the phrase, "actually include what we use...." or something similar	18:47
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r9338d69 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix template attachment ordering during the 7.8.24-7.9.11 upgrade. Existing sites cannot have their ordering restored, unless they revert and go through the ordering again. - http://bit.ly/afXA1V	18:54
SquOnk	perlDreamer: So, webgui dev, right?	18:55
+perlDreamer	yes	18:55
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* scrottie0 is reading scroll...		19:46
@preaction	i would prefer to remove those swfs entirely from the core: they have no business there. SquOnk if you create the thread, i'll weigh in with the severity, and the contributers can try to dissuade me	19:52
SquOnk	preaction: I have to create a thread?	19:56
@preaction	or i can do it, whichever	19:59
@preaction	do you have a URL to the debian bug?	20:00
SquOnk	preaction: Footnote at the posting in webgui dev	20:08
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r0e754a5 / lib/WebGUI/BestPractices.pm : fix namespace::autoclean use in BestPractices - http://bit.ly/9oyh4p	20:22
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@preaction	when's the next 7.9.x release? today or next week?	20:40
+perlDreamer	next week	20:41
+perlDreamer	this week is 7.10.0	20:41
+perlDreamer	unless we need to flip-flop that for priority reasons	20:41
@preaction	No, just wondering when to put the deadline on the ukplayer source problem	20:41
@preaction	Sept. 14 it is	20:42
@preaction	this e-mail backlog from the wuc is gonna take all week i imagine...	20:48
+perlDreamer	I call dibbs on preaction's mailbox	20:48
@preaction	were you a fly on the wall of my inbox, eh?	20:48
+perlDreamer	no, but I'm reserving space in the upcoming flood	20:48
@preaction	ahh	20:49
Haarg	weee more asset report problemms	20:49
Haarg	Form::AssetReportQuery uses definition so that will have to be fixed at some point	20:50
@preaction	yeah, asset report is going to go through the new process for 7.10. so v2 is probably getting fast-tracked	20:50
Haarg	actually i guess the other thing i found won't be broken	20:52
Haarg	it sorts the keys alphabetically instead of numerically	20:52
Haarg	but 1 will still come first so i think it won't break	20:52
@preaction	until 10 comes up	20:52
Haarg	the only really important thing with the loops is that 1 comes first	20:53
Haarg	still bad though	20:53
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r72aa67c / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix type handling in the new jsontable JS. Kudos to khenn for the patch. Fixes bug #11810 - http://bit.ly/d5MMLZ	20:54
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r34c48e6 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix type handling in the new jsontable JS. Kudos to khenn for the patch. Fixes bug #11810 - http://bit.ly/b3muK2	20:54
Haarg	the real brokenness is using hashes instead of arrays though	20:54
Haarg	oh, and more sql injection	20:57
Haarg	$condition isn't validated	20:58
+perlDreamer	$condition comes from the asset properties, doesn't it?	21:00
Haarg	from the settings property	21:03
+perlDreamer	but it's never exposed to the user, only the person who can edit the asset	21:04
+perlDreamer	and the asset can only be added by admins now	21:04
@preaction	so you trust every admin? or an exploit to gain escalated privs?	21:05
Haarg	well, admins already have access to everything they would get from exploiting this bug	21:05
+perlDreamer	if someone is an admin, it's way easier just to start deleting stuff than crafting an SQL injection exsploit	21:05
+perlDreamer	and you're right, AssetReport only guard bands canAdd, not canEdit	21:06
+perlDreamer	so if Admin assigned it to someone else, they'd be able to use it for nefarious puposes	21:06
Haarg	honestly though, i shouldn't be finding exploits every time i look at this code	21:06
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r2ee97e7 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/upgrade.pl): Don't be overzealous in cleaning up the cache root directory. Fixes bug #11814 - http://bit.ly/b90nVQ	21:16
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r91acd4c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/upgrade.pl): Don't be overzealous in cleaning up the cache root directory. Fixes bug #11814 - http://bit.ly/bkrFtZ	21:16
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r6aa26c2 / (61 files in 23 dirs): remove WebGUI::Utility::isIn - http://bit.ly/biIrDB	21:20
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r0adbb51 / (3 files in 2 dirs): remove WebGUI::Utility::sortHash - http://bit.ly/9QpWgW	21:20
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * red04b99 / (95 files in 27 dirs): remove WebGUI::Utility - http://bit.ly/aS67qD	21:20
+perlDreamer	great, Haarg. Now I have to update my presentation.	21:21
Haarg	:)	21:21
Haarg	a couple caveats with smart match - caring about types means you need to make sure you are feeding it the right data	21:23
Haarg	"1a" ~~ 1 is true. "1a" ~~ "1" is false.	21:24
Haarg	matching against an array works the same as matching against an arrayref	21:24
Haarg	but you can't match against a list	21:24
Haarg	so you need to stick it in an arrayref first	21:25
@preaction	fun!	21:25
SquOnk	perlDreamer: What do I need to do to have ITVERX listed in "home" -> "partners"	21:25
+perlDreamer	well, you would need to be invited to be a WebGUI partner	21:25
@preaction	maybe we should write some sort of useful function to smooth this stuff over? maybe a utility function? we could make a WebGUI::Utility package or something!	21:25
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Ah, I see.	21:25
@preaction	SquOnk: for details, ask info@plainblack.com	21:26
@preaction	tavisto isn't here i see... that slacker	21:26
SquOnk	Too bad I couldn't go to the WUC.	21:26
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@preaction	khenn: compy fixed?	21:29
@khenn	just got it back	21:29
@khenn	have to re-install all my apps though +(	21:30
@khenn	=(	21:30
@khenn	least my data is all in tact	21:30
+perlDreamer	what happened khenn?	21:30
@preaction	xootom had the same problem you did yesterday, which i thought was rather coincidental. so i decided not to do that security update	21:30
@khenn	preaction: don't know. it locked up on Sat morning and then never would get past the grey screen that has the apple on it	21:30
@khenn	took it to the apple store. They said it was a failing hard drive	21:31
@preaction	my hd has been making more noise recently. perhaps they decided to get a shitty batch	21:31
+perlDreamer	you need a new laptop, preaction	21:31
@preaction	it's only 18 months old, if that!	21:32
@preaction	if apple wants to push this kinda crap on us, i'll move to lenovo.	21:32
@khenn	I had to pay for the hard drive and then they wanted to keep my old one too	21:33
@khenn	it was like pulling teeth to get it back	21:33
@preaction	why the hell would they keep a broken hard drive?	21:34
@khenn	they said that apple did something with them	21:34
@khenn	I don't know	21:34
@khenn	it was odd	21:34
@preaction	recycle perhaps, there are precious metals in there, but still	21:34
@khenn	yeah	21:35
@khenn	I got it back though	21:35
@khenn	so that's good	21:35
Haarg	perlDreamer, i noted the replacements in migration.txt but it could probably use some expanding	21:40
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r494b270 / docs/migration.txt : note replacement functions for WebGUI::Utility in migration docs - http://bit.ly/doJSHI	21:40
+perlDreamer	not a problem, I hear some guy wrote a presentation about that	21:41
scrottie	(Panasonic Toughbook)++	21:42
scrottie	probably read through the code on it and patent good ideas, like they do with apps submitted to the app store.	21:42
@khenn	heh	21:45
@khenn	probably right scrottie	21:45
xdanger	My macbook pros harddrive failed yesterday also	21:45
@preaction	and then reject the apps because they want that market, like the gutenberg app	21:45
@preaction	wtf	21:45
xdanger	13 months old	21:45
@preaction	3? thats... not... right...	21:45
xdanger	good thing I have the overpriced applecare	21:46
scrottie	I really like to pick out my own harddrive... some brands suck really really bad.	21:47
xdanger	Still, "There's a queue to the service" and they have to get a new part from apple, even if they have the same drive on the self.. yey!	21:47
xdanger	I wish there was an applestore in central finland ;)	21:47
scrottie	DragonflyBSD isn't quite there yet with ACPI and it doesn't have single system image clustering running yet (one OS image, many machines). FreeBSD screwed the pooch. I'm thinking of exploring running Darwin on x86 hardware. I'd still be stuck X-Windows.	21:49
@khenn	well they did a decent job of restoring my data	21:49
@khenn	so I'm happy with that	21:49
@khenn	saved me a ton of time	21:49
scrottie	either Darwin or QNX.	21:49
scrottie	perl runs on QNX. what else do I really need?	21:50
+perlDreamer	mysql	21:50
+perlDreamer	apache	21:50
+perlDreamer	imagemagick	21:50
+perlDreamer	various browsers for cross testing	21:51
+perlDreamer	on multiple operating systems	21:51
scrottie	bleah.	21:51
+perlDreamer	not much more than perl ;)	21:51
scrottie	mysql, firefox, check.	21:53
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ryuu_ro	hey guys, I try to run WebGUI 8 but my $env->{SCRIPT_NAME} keeps on being empty	22:15
ryuu_ro	do you have any idea what I'm doing wrong	22:15
@preaction	ryuu_ro: how are you running it?	22:16
@preaction	is WebGUI::Paths on @INC?	22:16
ryuu_ro	i'm running it from /lib	22:16
@preaction	what's the error you get in the console / browser?	22:16
ryuu_ro	so ../app.psgi	22:16
@preaction	not sure that will work	22:16
ryuu_ro	the error is:	22:17
@preaction	try: env PERL5LIB=lib plackup app.psgi; <- in the WebGUI folder	22:17
ryuu_ro	Can't use string ("") as a subroutine ref while "strict refs" in use at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.0/Plack/App/URLMap.pm line 75.	22:17
ryuu_ro	ok try that	22:17
ryuu_ro	hmm from running from webgui dir I get a compilation error: WebGUI::Paths is not in env	22:19
ryuu_ro	env contains WebGUI/lib though	22:19
@preaction	if you're in lib, does perl -c WebGUI/Paths.pm work?	22:20
ryuu_ro	syntax ok	22:20
@preaction	try "export PERL5LIB=/data/WebGUI/lib; plackup app.psgi" maybe then?	22:23
Haarg	ryuu_ro, you might also try installing Devel::SimpleTrace and running plackup -MDevel::SimpleTrace app.psgi	22:25
ryuu_ro	ok no luck with exporting, trying Devel now	22:25
@preaction	yay! e-mail inbox backlog has been defeated! you lose 100 stress points!	22:28
ryuu_ro	still no luck	22:29
Haarg	it doesn't give any more information?	22:29
ryuu_ro	8 should be running "out of the box" right? no special configurations?	22:29
ryuu_ro	nope, still the same error trace	22:30
Haarg	what are you using for a config file, and how did you create the database?	22:31
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ryuu_ro	ow f* me, running system mysql instead of wre where my database is located............	22:33
Haarg	it shouldn't need any special configuration, but it's been a relatively small group of people using it so we haven't cleaned up some of these issues	22:33
ryuu_ro	ok, that sounds fair enough, I'll keep on building my server skills :)	22:34
@preaction	ryuu_ro: if you want, you could keep track of your adventure on the webgui dev list. that way we can fix any problems you run into, we can see the rough spots we need to smooth over, and you can help others start playing with webgui 8	22:35
ryuu_ro	sure, will do that (probably tommorow, I had enough for today :) )	22:36
CIA-21	wrebuild: Doug Bell master * r6cdba63 / getperlmodules.sh :	22:43
CIA-21	wrebuild: update perl modules from backpan instead	22:43
CIA-21	wrebuild: contributed by William McKee of Knowmad Technologies - http://bit.ly/aV7Yaf	22:43
@preaction	so apparently both debian 5 and ubuntu build WRE in 64-bit mode... i'm tempted to release a new WRE in any linux/BSD flavor I can and just forgoe the OS X version	22:44
SDuensin	Oooooooooo? 64 bit WRE?	22:47
@preaction	yeah, both knowmad and synq have gotten it to compile on Ubuntu and Debian respectively. but i have yet to get it to work	22:47
SDuensin	:-/	22:48
SDuensin	I need it here, too.	22:48
SDuensin	Well, I want it here anyway.	22:48
@preaction	but i'm using OS X 10.6, which iirc uses llvm not gcc	22:48
@preaction	wonder if openbsd ever ported away from gcc like they said they were gonna...	22:49
SDuensin	Yea, Apple likes llvm/clang.	22:59
SDuensin	Anyway, I'll be back later. Gotta get a kid from school.	22:59
carogray	Need a reminder.	23:50
carogray	On the data mail form template the Send button comes from <p><tmpl_var form.send></p> I think.	23:51
carogray	I need it to send and do everything else, but the button needs to say ????	23:51
carogray	cannot rememberhow to do this.	23:52
@preaction	<input type="submit" value="those characters"	23:52
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carogray	perfect thanks so much!	23:52
carogray	preaction: Beautiful! Works a charm and looks so pretty too! thanks	23:53
--- Day changed Wed Sep 08 2010
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CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r9ca3cd9 / lib/WebGUI/Admin.pm : fix back to site and logout links in admin console - http://bit.ly/9s0td9	00:01
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r7f18bcc / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm): All HTMLAreas in the post are controlled by the parent CS settings. Fixes bug #11827. - http://bit.ly/cUp1v7	00:04
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf333dbb / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm): All HTMLAreas in the post are controlled by the parent CS settings. Fixes bug #11827. - http://bit.ly/bDfYAF	00:05
+perlDreamer	preaction, why do we still ship WebGUI with Template Managers, Product Managers and other kinds of groups? Is it for the purpose of examples, or for historical continuity, or... ?	00:07
@preaction	historical continuity i suspect. we could remove them from the default install if we wanted	00:08
+perlDreamer	I'm trying to write a coherent response to: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11819	00:09
@preaction	could just remove it, as it has no bearing on shop. that was just for Products in the Admin Console	00:09
@preaction	and those groups were only because group settings were not configurable in the admin console	00:09
+perlDreamer	true, that	00:12
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+perlDreamer	howdy, andyiomoon	00:15
andyiomoon	morning perlDreamer	00:15
+perlDreamer	any GPS related problems on the flight back?	00:16
andyiomoon	heh - no - we managed to find Melbourne with little difficulty I believe	00:16
andyiomoon	time to shepherd kids to school but I will be throwing some enquiries your way in an email later on - so stay tuned :)	00:18
+perlDreamer	I'll be here	00:18
Haarg	some of those extra groups are hard coded in some places, but not most of them	00:24
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I'll ack 14	00:25
Haarg	12, 11, 13, 7, 4, 3, 2, 1 are hard coded in places afaik, but not the others	00:26
+perlDreamer	Haarg, any thoughts on letting wgd edit also be able to handle template attachments?	00:37
+perlDreamer	they're not little JSON blobs in the database in the template table	00:37
+perlDreamer	s/not/now/	00:37
Haarg	so it should be possible to edit them now, it's probably just really annoying	00:38
Haarg	should be possible to make a transformation to make them easier to deal with	00:39
+perlDreamer	from asset-serial format to JSON-format?	00:40
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r17d1eca / (2 files in 2 dirs): Cleanup a bad template attachment in the new Asset Report template. Fixes bug #11825 - http://bit.ly/aesC7C	00:43
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SynQ	hello there	00:47
SynQ	who lives in 'the USA lower 48 states'?	00:47
SynQ	I need a favour from someone	00:48
@preaction	sup holmes	00:48
SynQ	huh?	00:48
@preaction	yes, what you need?	00:49
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elnino	hi everyone!	00:51
elnino	hey preaction - http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11844 I can't comment on it. It seems to be in a special area?	00:51
@preaction	elnino: yes. what's up?	00:52
@preaction	the 8 tickets are for the 8 devs for internal tracking. we're just being transparent	00:52
elnino	well, my comment would be:	00:52
elnino	that one of what I believe to be one of the selling points of webgui is that it's a complete out of the box solutions, where as joomla and them guys have a core, and then a bunch of add ons.	00:53
Haarg	preaction, i know jt mentioned all of those assets as things worth removing, except for time tracker. he said he knew of a number of people using it.	00:53
@preaction	those are directly from the list of assets he gave me	00:53
elnino	yet at the same time, I think people expect having add ons.	00:53
@preaction	and they'd still be using it, it'd just no longer be worked on by core devs	00:54
elnino	and that they maybe want somethign like joomla where peopl ehave to weed thru a bunch of add ons to pick one that meets there needs.	00:54
@preaction	until someone gets PM v 2 out which can be a bundled, add-on solution	00:54
elnino	so is webgui goign to distinguish between "their" add ons verses community add ons?	00:55
elnino	bazzaar vs wg plugins?	00:55
@preaction	elnino: the future idea is that there will be installable add-ons from a command-line script. as for "official add ons", i haven't gotten that far yet	00:55
elnino	I just don't want a joomla mess occuring.	00:55
elnino	I left joomla for that reason.	00:56
elnino	k. that's all for today. =)	00:56
elnino	how was wuc?	00:57
scrottie	perhaps "fat" and "light" distros. dunno.	00:57
elnino	scrottie: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11843	00:57
@preaction	most likely we'd have a process where PB / community would be able to mark add-ons as "Kwalitee"	00:57
@preaction	or even, "core-ready"	00:58
@preaction	meaning it has all the requirements to go into core, it's just not distributed with WebGUI	00:58
scrottie	ah, nice. yeah, saw the URL go by before but didn't look at it.	00:58
elnino	or this scrottie: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11829	00:59
elnino	slightly different	01:00
scrottie	what exactly is the joomla mess? add-ons not being kept up to date, disorganized, no assurance of quality, etc?	01:01
@preaction	most likely all three	01:02
elnino	yes. and the fact that there are a gabillion photo galleries, shops, file management, etc addons.	01:02
elnino	and sites hosting them EVERYWHERE. I like going to one place: www.webgui.org	01:03
elnino	it's a breath of fresh air.	01:03
elnino	(webgui that is)	01:04
@preaction	that's why we'd have a command-line script to add them to the central repo / CPAN. no desire to put them anywhere else	01:04
elnino	sounds good to me.	01:05
elnino	gotta go. later.	01:05
@preaction	point being: if the add-ons are not just as easy to use as core (or easier, with only one command necessary to install and add to all sites), then we are better served keeping everything in core	01:05
Haarg	and they might still be distributed with core. the important point is it would open up the possibility of having a light dist.	01:06
@preaction	right	01:07
@preaction	cpan install WebGUI <- bootstrap a webgui install. wg install <some app> <some other app> <some more apps>	01:07
Haarg	also last night i started converting Storage to use Imager to see how bad it would be. seems pretty reasonable so far, although apparently my build has no gif support.	01:08
@preaction	eh, gifs are for wimps and communists	01:08
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r842992d / (2 files in 2 dirs): Cleanup a bad template attachment in the new Asset Report template. Fixes bug #11825 - http://bit.ly/dnz8CP	01:08
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rdc1ed08 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move the upgrade package to the new location. - http://bit.ly/bpgTRO	01:08
+perlDreamer	preaction, there's a small hiccup with the default content	01:54
+perlDreamer	it references a PDF file in the Media folder	01:54
+perlDreamer	but the upgrade script will only install things into the import node	01:54
+perlDreamer	I guess I can install this by hand	01:55
Haarg	default content shouldn't go into an upgrade anyway though	01:58
+perlDreamer	good point	02:02
@preaction	sorry, but i can't remember why we don't take a dump of default.plainblack.com, use that as create.sql, and run wgd reset -b on it for the release (or something to that effect)	02:09
+perlDreamer	user accounts, passwords, asset history, version tags	02:10
@preaction	which reset -b should clear out, no?	02:10
+perlDreamer	I don't "no"	02:10
Haarg	asset history and versions tags are cleared out	02:14
Haarg	extra users are deleted	02:14
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+perlDreamer	I'll try it out tonight.	02:16
@preaction	so it'd be perfect to let Rogier, Tessa, and whomever have access to default.plainblack.com and edit the stuff before the release	02:16
+perlDreamer	no, it won't work	02:16
+perlDreamer	default tracks only 1 version	02:16
CIA-21	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r694c9ce / lib/WGDev/Command/Self/Upgrade.pm : fix self-upgrade (+6 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/d5DMZl	02:16
+perlDreamer	and we need both versions of the database to do this	02:17
@preaction	we could export packages for the stable versions	02:17
+perlDreamer	that takes us back to where we are now, with needing to install a package by hand	02:18
Haarg	make a wgd plugin that lists version tags and shows their contents	02:18
Haarg	dump out packages of anything that has changed	02:18
Haarg	and import them min-reset	02:18
Haarg	or some variation on that	02:18
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@preaction	i just found a new way to take down a webgui site: have a syndicated content asset on the home page, have that syndicated content asset refer to the RSS feed of an asset that no longer exists, and have the "404 page" be the Home Page of the site.	05:59
@preaction	infinite loop of awesomeness!	05:59
SDuensin	SWEET!	06:02
SDuensin	Not guessing you figured that out by testing the code I hinted I wanted written for free, huh? :-)	06:02
+perlDreamer	preaction: that's evil	06:53
@preaction	but now why does it sound familiar?	06:53
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+perlDreamer	frodwith, you silly test writer you	07:10
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re25014e / t/Template/downgrade.t : Only run HTML::Template::Expr tests if the module is available. Temporarily place it into the config file so that it can be tested. - http://bit.ly/bwoOna	07:15
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r95487ae / t/Macro/ConvertUTCToTZ.t : Fix a problem with newer DateTimes. - http://bit.ly/dr971i	07:19
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb8845e2 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Preparing for 7.10.0 release. - http://bit.ly/b2kjca	08:01
-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.9.13-stable \| 7.10.0-beta \| WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com		08:19
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re5c2f13 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.1 development. - http://bit.ly/9inwiq	08:19
+perlDreamer	thanks, Radix_	08:19
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@preaction	yep, that had to be why. the 404 page caused syndicated content to try to render itself, causing another 404 and another SC and another 404 etc...	08:38
@preaction	i'll fix it tomorrow	08:38
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elnino	I'm running 7.7.33 I believe, where can I find the information about the safest upgrade path?	08:46
@preaction	the wiki has a page on stop points	08:48
* elnino looks		08:48
elnino	ah found it.	08:50
elnino	have I said how I don't like the new wiki? It'd like it was two versions ago...	08:50
elnino	I looked under admin and couldn't find it. did I miss it?	08:50
elnino	I looked again, I didn't miss it. the http://www.webgui.org/wiki/stop-versions isn't lited under "administration" how would one get it there?	08:52
+perlDreamer	it would have to be tagged with the right keyword, elnino	08:55
@preaction	add "Administration" to the keywords list	08:55
elnino	well, I thought that too,	08:55
elnino	but I looked at another topic in "administration"	08:55
elnino	and it didn't have the keyword "administration"	08:56
elnino	so it seems that there is someone somewhere orging this all.	08:56
elnino	=)	08:56
elnino	example: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-configure-a-static-non-webgui-site	08:56
+perlDreamer	elnino, the keywords have hierarchy	08:57
elnino	so it's like someone decided that "installation" and "wre" were keywords that shoudl be under "administration"	08:57
@preaction	Installation is a sub keyword inside Administration	08:57
+perlDreamer	for example, under Administration, there are keywords wre and installation	08:57
elnino	right.	08:57
elnino	so... this is "upgrade"	08:57
elnino	How do I as a user get "upgrade" under "administration"?	08:57
+perlDreamer	only people allowed to edit the wiki (instead of the wiki-page) are allowed to setup the keyword hierarchy	08:58
@preaction	if you click administration, you should see a sub-keywords box, no?	08:58
@preaction	really? why?	08:58
elnino	me?	08:58
@preaction	well, i just did it, because i can edit the wiki.	08:59
+perlDreamer	that was the spec, preaction	08:59
elnino	HEY there's three articles on "upgrade" howabout "upgrading"? =)	09:00
@preaction	new rule: no more ideas from JT on how a wiki should work. if mediawiki does it, that's how we'll do it.	09:00
elnino	lol. I agree.	09:00
elnino	s/howabout/how about adding	09:00
@preaction	we need proper taxonomy so we can say "upgrading" == "upgrade"	09:01
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elnino	and there lies one of the many issues.. =) I've had enough fun.. Sorry to be complaining about the wiki so earily in the morning..	09:01
elnino	I scared off perlDreamer. =(	09:02
@preaction	no, it's very late	09:02
elnino	good night!	09:02
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* bartjol has gat wg8 running, no good admin console and data errors in the asset view, but it works!		15:25
+bartjol	mmm, no error console, no log file entires (allthough the last was to be suspected, I believe)	15:59
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:50
+bartjol	oh, hi	17:10
SDuensin	oh, hey	17:12
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+bartjol	patspam: you know whether the default wg8 branch should at least show the asset view and adminconsole?	17:18
+bartjol	I have it installed but it misses the adminconsole bar doesn't have any layout and when I go to asset view (via adminconsole->assets, not the "tree view") I get "Data error" in the yui asset table	17:21
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scrottie	bartjol, to the best of my knowledge, it only works on preaction's laptop.	18:04
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+bartjol	scrottie ah, that is a relieve	18:07
+bartjol	I thought I screwed something up and taht the AC js +css didn't work	18:09
+bartjol	already started chowning files, which is not bad per se	18:09
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knowmad	Wow! Looks like the WUC is over and everyone is back on IRC ;)	18:23
knowmad	perlDreamer: I saw the announcement about 7.10.0 with the Gotcha; i just ran an upgrade from 7.8.24 to 7.9.13 which means I got bit by the bug	18:24
knowmad	i'm just not sure if I use template attachments; how would I confirm this is a problem?	18:24
knowmad	and what are the impacts to front-end of a site?	18:25
+perlDreamer	the impact is potentially huge	18:25
+bartjol	i was always there, only in a diffrent timezone ;)	18:25
+perlDreamer	since all your JS will think it's CSS	18:25
+perlDreamer	and they may not be in the correct order for loading	18:25
knowmad	hey bartjol - glad someone was keeping the lights on here	18:25
knowmad	oiy-vey! yes, that's a problem	18:25
+perlDreamer	but, there's only one default template which uses attachments	18:25
knowmad	oh, so it may not be an issue since we've customized our templates	18:26
+perlDreamer	to check to see if you're using attachments (and since you have to set it up manually, you'd probably already know)	18:26
knowmad	yeah, i didn't build the site though	18:26
+perlDreamer	select distinct attachmentsJson from template;	18:26
+perlDreamer	and look in the JSON for funniness	18:26
knowmad	ok	18:26
knowmad	when will 7.9.14 be coming out?	18:26
+perlDreamer	next Tuesday, but the bugs can't be automatically fixed	18:27
knowmad	yeah, but i can just re-upgrade	18:28
+perlDreamer	well, actually you can if no work has been done on the site	18:28
knowmad	or at least, i presume that will work?	18:28
+perlDreamer	yeah, it would	18:28
knowmad	yeah, i realize i'd lose any updates to the upgraded site	18:28
knowmad	cool, thanks!	18:28
knowmad	so that sql qry returned 35 rows	18:29
+perlDreamer	check each one for JS files that have the wrong type	18:29
knowmad	ok	18:30
knowmad	looks like most are set to type headScript	18:30
+perlDreamer	then you're fine	18:30
+perlDreamer	well, fine for the first problem, where JS files were mislabeled	18:31
+perlDreamer	then there's the ordering problem	18:31
knowmad	where the headScripts are placed into the page in wrong order?	18:32
+perlDreamer	yes	18:32
knowmad	is this a result of JSON packing?	18:32
+perlDreamer	yes, and no	18:32
+perlDreamer	when they were packed, the original order wasn't guaranteed to be preserved	18:32
+perlDreamer	but only because the sequence was ignored during the packing	18:32
+bartjol	so, is there something I could hack on in wg8 tonight, while not having a internet connection?	18:32
+perlDreamer	it's not a consequence of the JSON itself	18:33
knowmad	i see	18:33
+bartjol	only a semi-working install?	18:33
+perlDreamer	bartjol, the API works great	18:33
+perlDreamer	so anything in there would help	18:33
knowmad	ok, i'll prob just re-upgrade next week after the new release comes out	18:34
knowmad	this info ought to be put out to News if it hasn't already	18:34
Haarg	while kind of lame, we could have an upgrade try to fix the order and type	18:35
Haarg	but it would possibly be inaccurate	18:35
+perlDreamer	yeah, people would still have to go through and check it	18:35
+perlDreamer	so I figured it was best to leave it as it was	18:36
+perlDreamer	knowmad, it's possible that the order is correct, but it's just as possible that the order is wrong	18:36
+bartjol	ok, taking a look at the to do list (might take all evening by itself)	18:36
+perlDreamer	it's worth testing some pages to see what's up	18:36
+bartjol	ooh, well removing duplicate i18n strings sounds like something I can do	18:37
+bartjol	tedious job though	18:37
+perlDreamer	bartjol, I'd write a script for that	18:40
+perlDreamer	first, build a list of duplicates in the i18n	18:40
knowmad	ok, thanks for feedback	18:40
+perlDreamer	then find out where they're used	18:40
+perlDreamer	knowmad, why do I have the feeling that you're gnashing your teeth? :)	18:40
scrottie0	is there a test for the streaming API as used by the progress bar in WebGUI 8? if not, perhaps write one.	18:40
knowmad	perlDreamer: i'm not	18:40
knowmad	i just don't see a need to worry about it since a bugfix will be released next week	18:41
knowmad	we're not in a rush to upgrade the production site; i just needed a dev site setup	18:41
knowmad	wanted to be sure i understood the bug	18:41
+bartjol	perlDreamer: might a perl utilityscript be the best option? that also can be used in an upgrade	18:42
+perlDreamer	bartjol, definitely	18:42
+bartjol	and it is easier to get the tags	18:42
+bartjol	so, do we just say that every english tag that is exactly the same is a duplicate? I know we have discussed that before	18:43
+bartjol	well, after finding duplicates, I suppose I can check the contect	18:44
+bartjol	context	18:44
+bartjol	that script will be a nice loopy thingy :)	18:45
+perlDreamer	yes, you'll want to build like a reversed hash for easy lookups	18:47
+bartjol	In Dutch I can also check whether the Dutch word is the same (also with spanish and german). I can make a comparison file, which I can post	18:47
+perlDreamer	that would be awesome	18:47
+bartjol	then the germans and spanish guys can react	18:47
+bartjol	if they don't bad luck for them	18:47
scrottie0	bartjol, yeah, my "Admin Console" doesn't accordian and "Tree" doesn't give me a tree view. no response.	18:51
+bartjol	I don't even see a tree button	18:51
+bartjol	waiting will get me there though	18:51
* bartjol goes in wg8 standby modus		18:52
+bartjol	I'll assign myself that issue	18:56
+bartjol	I can't	18:58
+bartjol	even no comments, maybe I should belong to a group which can	18:59
+perlDreamer	yeah, I can't assign myself, or anyone else, either	19:00
+perlDreamer	I'll drop a note in there for now bartjol	19:00
+bartjol	well, preaction want to do everything him self :P	19:00
+perlDreamer	preaction, Haarg, there are few if any tickets that y'all have submitted that have enough detail that we can hand any of them off	19:01
+perlDreamer	you might want to prioritize something really important, and describe it to the point where even I could pick it up and do it	19:01
@preaction	yeah, that'd be awesome! it'd also be impossible, as i am extremely lazy. better to get other people to do things	19:01
@preaction	pick something that sounds interesting and i'll explain it out	19:01
+bartjol	well I'm looking at 11713	19:02
@preaction	bartjol: you are empowered	19:02
+bartjol	which is a female dog prolly	19:02
+bartjol	so, I want to look for double English entries in wg8	19:03
Haarg	honestly most of the ones i filed are so i don't forget them myself	19:03
+bartjol	and compare whether Dutch translations are identical	19:03
Haarg	most aren't intended for other people to take care of	19:04
+bartjol	the structure hasn't been changed yet I hope?	19:04
+bartjol	well intended...	19:04
@preaction	bartjol: the end idea is that the WebGUI namespace should have all the common things. "delete" "add" "edit" "copy" "paste"	19:04
Haarg	or there's things like the YUI thing where i need feedback from doug before i continue	19:04
@preaction	the single-word descriptions for links that everybody uses but are strewn about the i18n tree willy-nilly	19:04
+bartjol	I agree that long haired people should do slave work, but not all. some of has to be done by people who speak garbled crap	19:05
+bartjol	preaction: ok	19:06
+bartjol	I'll stick with the short ones then\	19:06
+bartjol	depends on how my script turns out	19:07
Haarg	perlDreamer, should i close 11668 or leave it open to handle converting existing code to use WebGUI::BestPractices ?	19:07
+bartjol	but i also have to find all use in the code offcourse	19:07
Haarg	some of the code you've already converted (C::IO stuff) is spitting warnings now	19:07
@preaction	bartjol: once you have the i18n key, you can use "ack" to get the places it's used. won't be entirely automated, but it'll work	19:08
+perlDreamer	Haarg, since we've decided on a name, I'd close that bug out and open a new one for conversion	19:08
+perlDreamer	re warnings, t/00_compile runs clean before I commit	19:08
+perlDreamer	and it usually pukes on warnings	19:08
Haarg	compile warnings	19:09
Haarg	because those are almost always bad, and it forces warnings on universally	19:09
+perlDreamer	so what kind of warnings are you seeing?	19:09
Haarg	but undef warnings show up all over the place if warnings are turned on	19:09
Haarg	which happens automatically with 'use Moose'	19:09
+bartjol	just posted this in the report, so it is defined	19:10
* perlDreamer heads off to the gym, and contemplates undefinedness		19:10
@preaction	i know i've promised this for a few weeks now, but today i will go through and describe the tickets and give priorities and deadlines using some nice metadata. after i go get some allergy meds	19:13
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scrottie0	my state of mind somewhat resembles that of a newborn baby when I'm awake in the morning.	19:13
scrottie0	that might not be the best time for me to talk to clients on the phone ;)	19:14
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+bartjol	eeh I do can assume that within namespaces tags are unique, right?	19:15
scrottie0	patspam, when you get time, can you comment on http://github.com/scrottie/webgui/commit/1f7075ce9261824b883d7d0f7a924a4ab064dcbb ? gentle reminder =) specifically, I don't want to undo anything that you did for a good reason, at least not without having another strategy for dealing with the same.	19:17
scrottie0	alright, you're on auto-reconnect. I'll talk to you at 3am after I stumble home from the pub.	19:19
patspam	scrottie0: the intent is awesome	19:23
patspam	when I run it, it spews a whole lot of stuff into my console	19:23
patspam	and shows the regular site - isn't it supposed to show a stacktrace?	19:24
scrottie0	patspam, it should show a stack trace (cross referenced with the asset tree) but only if you hit an error. Template has a die inserted into it. if you try to edit a template, it should blow up.	19:25
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+danny_mk	Hello everyone	19:26
scrottie0	that's what should happen. I fired it up this morning and that's not quite what happened... a stray eval { die } kicked the logic in.	19:26
scrottie0	hey danny_mk	19:26
+danny_mk	would it be worth the time to be able to dynamically assign templates when adding a new wiki page?	19:26
scrottie0	line 36ish of lib/WebGUI/Middleware/StackTrace.pm should be using the full if ($trace && ($caught \|\| ($self->force && ref $res eq 'ARRAY' && $res->[0] == 500)) ) logic, not just the if($trace) logic, to avoid that.	19:27
patspam	scrottie: 404's generate a stacktrace in the console output	19:27
patspam	and cause the server to hang	19:27
scrottie0	danny_mk: there are so many humans walking the face of the earth that no industry, no matter how obscure, is unworthy of our time.	19:27
scrottie0	patspam, it only looks like it has hung. in about 15 minutes, you should have your nice stack trace. that's another matter...	19:28
patspam	ah, yeah I saw that in the main branch too when i was generating a screenshot for my talk	19:28
scrottie0	I'm sobbing into my ale as I type this, but if this error page gets used, it'll have to be AJAXified.	19:28
scrottie0	really? as WebGUI.pm was, the straight up Plack::Middleware::StackTrace would basically never engage due to the call-back style used in WebGUI.pm. only if another bit of Middleware blew up would Plack::Middleware::StackTrace engage.	19:29
patspam	sorry, gotta run, but looks good, I say keep hacking it into shape and feel free to modify anything i committed	19:30
+danny_mk	well, it would be nice to have as we are using wiki to keep our documentation, however the formatting is becoming unbearable because there is no standard way/guide to type/format the documentation	19:30
scrottie0	so I guess the RFC here is really two parts... the stupid tree view of the assets cross referenced to stack trace that preaction liked (originally it was done in ASCII but he suggested HTML) and the matter of getting WebGUI.pm avoiding using callback style so that the plain old Plack::Middleware::StackTrace would kick in	19:30
scrottie0	patspam, okay, but I want to clarify later with you that always doing the callback wasn't done for any specific reason, to avoid any specific problem.	19:31
patspam	I think it may have been related to the streaming api	19:31
scrottie0	yeah. I haven't been able to get the admin console working well enough I can test the progress bar to see if I've broken it.	19:32
scrottie0	so I have to put this aside for a while I think.	19:32
scrottie0	anywho, thanks for looking at it.	19:32
patspam	welcome :)	19:33
Haarg	scrottie0, page layouts (when logged in) should use streaming just like the progress bar does so you might be able to use that for testing	19:40
scrottie0	hrmmmrmm..	19:42
@preaction	danny_mk: i was thinking some method of calling a template from inside of a wiki page, like mediawiki does. something like [[Template:MyTemplate name=value name=value]]	19:57
+danny_mk	right	19:57
@preaction	so then you could create a template inside your wiki that has [% name %] and it would be replaced with "value"	19:57
+danny_mk	I was thinking of adding a menu choice like: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/example05.html	19:58
+danny_mk	Hmmm... got to look into that	19:59
@preaction	but would you be able to apply multiple templates? perhaps [[Template is the wrong word for it, as it's really more like a Macro	19:59
+danny_mk	We need to be able to apply multiple templates	20:00
@preaction	but still, mediawiki calls it a template, and the template itself is really indeed a template	20:00
+danny_mk	hold on	20:00
+danny_mk	?func=add;class=WebGUI::Asset::WikiPage;title=dan;templateId=...	20:01
+danny_mk	something like that	20:02
@preaction	that would only apply one template to that page.	20:02
@preaction	mediawiki templates work differently than normal, WebGUI templates. they define a single part of the page. like the side box or a bottom box	20:02
+danny_mk	OK	20:03
+danny_mk	maybe I should explain myself better	20:03
+danny_mk	I get what you are saying, I was simply looking into adding a new wiki page using a specific template	20:04
+danny_mk	The wiki entry form as a guide to format documentation and other items that would be standard in our company	20:05
@preaction	wikipages get their template from the parent. what are you trying to do that you need a complete template?	20:05
@preaction	so you want to change how the edit page looks?	20:05
+danny_mk	right	20:05
@preaction	but only for certain wiki pages	20:06
+danny_mk	yes	20:06
+danny_mk	For example, if we have a info wiki that contains documentation (in the man page format), lessons learned, contacts, etc.. I would like the user to be able to select the documentation template when entering a new API document	20:08
+danny_mk	for lessons learned it would be a different entry form, for contacts it would be yet another entry form, etc...	20:09
+danny_mk	this is not a practical example but it is the best way I can explain what I am after	20:09
@preaction	but the end result is that the HTML Editor shows some default content inside, correct?	20:11
+danny_mk	I would prefer it to be different fields in the entry form. Maybe not even use the editor, sacrifice the editor for some default formatting would be acceptable	20:12
@preaction	okay, but then it's not a wiki at all	20:14
+danny_mk	and I hit the wall :-(	20:15
+danny_mk	yup, you are probably right :-)	20:15
+perlDreamer	danny_mk: sounds more like you want a DataForm, or a Thingy	20:15
@preaction	or custom Article subtypes	20:16
+danny_mk	OK, I will concede	20:16
+perlDreamer	preaction, it also sounds like the userDefined fields in every Asset idea	20:17
@preaction	which is less practical than using normal asset Metadata	20:18
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11210	20:18
+perlDreamer	eh, I think it's more like giving every asset 5 metadata fields	20:18
+perlDreamer	and skipping all the other hassle	20:18
+perlDreamer	you get 5 for free, then if you need more you can add it	20:18
+perlDreamer	and they don't have to be the same	20:18
+perlDreamer	kind of like userSessionScratch, for Assets	20:18
@preaction	the hassle of requiring a template for every www_edit so you can use proper form controls like Rich Edit or User or Group?	20:19
+perlDreamer	the wiki edit is templated anyway	20:20
+perlDreamer	and userDefined vars aren't that detailed	20:20
@preaction	in the collaboration they are, you can pick from a bunch of different form fields	20:22
@preaction	and if not, people use macros to create the field they want	20:22
+perlDreamer	that's not a bad idea at all	20:25
@preaction	but i didn't have that idea, it's the prevailing idea	20:26
@preaction	my idea it to make real metadata more useful. i'm not even sure why userdefinedfields are perceived as better anyway	20:27
+perlDreamer	because they're not constrained in anyway	20:27
+perlDreamer	metadata is shared across all assets	20:27
+perlDreamer	maybe I don't care to have color metadata in one asset	20:27
@preaction	okay, so make it a dropdown to add metadata fields	20:28
Haarg	metadata isn't versioned	20:28
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Haarg	and can't be used to sort	20:29
@preaction	technical problems that can be resolved. could even organize metadata by site section	20:30
+perlDreamer	preaction, I think you're trying to fit square code in a round hole	20:31
Haarg	also not indexed	20:31
Haarg	well, metadata was originally created as a way to add arbitrary fields to assets	20:31
+perlDreamer	personally, the concept of having less code (userDefined vs metadata) isn't bad at all, but they serve different purposes	20:31
knowmad	Haarg: should `wgd intro`be sending out raw perldoc?	20:32
knowmad	the one we installed last Friday is doing that for me; i'd have thought it'd format it	20:32
+perlDreamer	metadata was created so that sites could keep track of what users view on a site	20:32
knowmad	it = the output	20:32
+perlDreamer	the AOI stuff	20:32
Haarg	should look like a man page	20:32
@preaction	they serve the same purpose with different caveats: They are both meta data.	20:32
+perlDreamer	then we started abusing it	20:32
+perlDreamer	preaction, maybe "userDefined" fields should be per-asset metadata, rather than per-site metadata?	20:33
knowmad	Haarg: ok	20:33
scrottie	Haarg: a patch, if you want it. http://github.com/scrottie/wgdev/commit/d29b2e745d90df5116adfeeba26bddc42a7e14a3	20:33
@preaction	perlDreamer: we could make "Content Profiling" configurable enough to satisfy the use-case of userDefined fields. Collab, Calendar, etc could have a section to define which metadata fields are valid for their Post, Event, etc...	20:35
scrottie	"Uses the root asses "... ooops. corrections needed.	20:35
@preaction	userDefined gives functionality to us, the developers. there are other ways to do the same thing as userDefined fields allow	20:36
Haarg	scrottie, i like the idea, but there are some things about the implementation that bug me	20:37
+perlDreamer	I don't think so preaction. users use userDefined fields in the CS and never have to touch code	20:37
scrottie	Haarg, I'm happy to hear your thoughts and may even implement them =)	20:39
+perlDreamer	anyone who can edit an asset can add metadata, or edit a template to add userDefined fields	20:39
@preaction	perlDreamer: but somebody has to set up the user defined fields, and then when user defined fields run out somebody has to hack JSON into them. if metadata were used, we would never have to do anything	20:41
scrottie	"my $bar_continues_on_down = @child_nodes ? '\| ' : ' ';" ... this logic doesn't seem to be working. everything gets a bar coming down from it regardless of whether there is a next sibling. hmm.	20:41
+perlDreamer	preaction: anyone who uses more than 5 userDefined fields really needs a different, customized asset.	20:42
Haarg	but they often aren't willing to do that perlDreamer	20:42
@preaction	5? that sounds like an arbitrary number to me	20:42
@preaction	i think it should be 10!	20:42
@preaction	no, wait, 20!	20:42
+perlDreamer	it's completely arbitrary	20:42
@preaction	actually, i'm wrong, it should be 2	20:42
Haarg	it seems like the only way to accurately know if there are more siblings would be to render the tree in reverse	20:42
* preaction hates arbitrary numbers		20:43
+perlDreamer	sometimes you just have to pick a number	20:43
Haarg	as far as the things that bug me, --tree seems like a better name for it	20:43
Haarg	should probably be split into separate subs	20:43
Haarg	it leaks $show_tree	20:44
scrottie	no, just doing that with the root node. hmm.	20:44
@preaction	the problem with that arbitrary number is that it makes things easy until they are impossible. once you use userDefined5, you will never add another userDefined field. that's quite frustrating	20:44
scrottie	it should print $show_tree, $show_tree does the printing. yeah, I'm finding nits still.	20:44
@preaction	but if you're using metadata, you have all the fields you want and don't need to ask a developer to help	20:44
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elnino	frodwith are you the one I talk to about paying for a feature to be developed?	20:49
elnino	hey preaction, http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11804 is this something I can do with a sql report?	20:51
@preaction	elnino: not quite. attachments are storage locations, and are not described fully in the database (you'd have to write a macro to list the contents of the storage location)	20:52
@preaction	but besides that, yes	20:52
elnino	does "approved" mean it's goign into 8.x?	20:53
@preaction	no, approved is the same as it always was, anyone can put it in at any time	20:54
@preaction	i'd love for it to be, but i believe 8.x is going to be refactoring every application webgui comes with, starting with the most-used apps	20:54
elnino	and the difficulty of level 4 means?	20:54
elnino	time required? or actuall difficult navigating around a bunch of code?	20:55
@preaction	time required, 4 hours	20:56
elnino	I have a customer that needs it "now" just trying to get a feel for this. just maybe I'll contribute something. =)	20:57
@preaction	awesome!	20:57
elnino	don't get too excited..=) we'll see.	20:57
elnino	oh. again.. which payment processors does wg support? i'll writing a wiki page so I don'thave to ask anymore.	21:17
+perlDreamer	ITransact, PayPal, PayPal Express, Ogone and Cash	21:18
+perlDreamer	/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/PayDriver/	21:18
elnino	thank you. I'll write that wiki page now. =)	21:19
scrottie	Haarg, http://github.com/scrottie/wgdev/commit/ad7f54412e36da21aee594977879057559268ba9, and I best be getting back to it here... after a quick snack.	21:20
elnino	can someone add "payment" and "shop" to the "shop" umbrella on the wiki?	21:28
+perlDreamer	so, in hierarchy, you want shop/payment and shop/shop?	21:32
elnino	well, the "keywould shop ones don't appear. (I tagged mine as "shop) and it's not appearing. So the "shop/shop" would really be "shop/generic info"	21:33
elnino	sorry	21:33
elnino	the keyword "shop" isn't appearing under the category/umbrella "shop"	21:34
elnino	look at the wiki I created.	21:34
elnino	http://www.webgui.org/wiki/supported-payment-drivers	21:34
elnino	oh..	21:34
elnino	they have to be comma delimited...	21:34
elnino	there it is.	21:35
elnino	sorry.	21:35
elnino	forget the "shop shop" =)	21:36
elnino	forget the "shop payment" unless it makes sense. I couldn't think of a better term.	21:36
elnino	I'm going. I created enough trouble. =(	21:36
+perlDreamer	no harm done, elnino	21:43
@preaction	we need people to shake things up, the more people shaking things up, the better stuff can be brought to the top	21:44
* perlDreamer feels his eyeballs rattling in the sockets		21:45
+perlDreamer	and hopes that he's moving up toward the top	21:45
+danny_mk	I am still waiting to hear about auth improvements in 8.x.x	21:47
@preaction	danny_mk: there are three tickets in the WebGUI 8 list that will improve the API without largely affecting backwards-compatibility	21:50
+danny_mk	Do you know who is doing the work?	21:50
@preaction	no	21:51
@preaction	all i know is it will be done before API/Feature Freeze	21:51
@preaction	it could very well end up being me	21:51
+danny_mk	OK	21:53
+bartjol	I'm as far as being able to compare tagnames :)	22:00
+bartjol	almost there	22:00
+bartjol	wl it gets empty messages, so everything is equal, luckily it was just to make a list :)	22:17
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+bartjol	mmm, will anybody here believe that there are only 9 duplicate messages in all the i18n tags?	22:35
@preaction	yes, i was looking previously	22:36
+bartjol	sure?, well ok	22:37
+bartjol	I'll add it to the issue	22:38
+bartjol	well, now I gotta go, still have to eat	22:40
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+bartjol	preaction, should I spot diffrences between WebGUI 8 and 7 in # of duplicates?	22:42
@preaction	maybe, dunno	22:42
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SquOnk	Greetings	22:43
+bartjol	well, I'll just run it, also on the dutch files and see what comes out	22:43
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+perlDreamer	preaction: I want to kick around an idea with you, relating to header tags from dynamic forms being in the body.	23:14
+perlDreamer	if each form plugin had a method called getHeadTags, then things like DataForm and Thingy (which know which form plugins they use) could get all of them and set them in prepareView	23:15
+perlDreamer	this would guarantee they're put into the HEAD block, instead of the BODY	23:15
+perlDreamer	it would mean manual refactoring of all the Form plugins though	23:17
+perlDreamer	which comes to 22 modules	23:18
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@preaction	perlDreamer: well, it needs to be done. and that's a good way to do it	23:28
* perlDreamer is really starting to dig introspection		23:30
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+perlDreamer	preaction, I'm getting old	00:03
+perlDreamer	I just reinvented this: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/10333	00:03
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scrottie	are we avoiding REPLACE INTO?	02:01
@preaction	depends, is it SQL92?	02:05
@preaction	or at least in the top three: mysql, postgres, sqlite	02:06
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@preaction	if we can work with those three, i'll be happy	02:06
scrottie	yeah, no. at least not for the probably oldish Postgres I've got here.	02:09
topsub	I'm trying to add a thingy to webgui 7.9.13 and i get these errors: http://pastebin.com/pxbSZXwv	02:11
topsub	anyone have ideas?	02:11
+perlDreamer	topsub, did you add a Thing to the Thingy?	02:13
+perlDreamer	Looks like it may have tried earlier, but failed	02:13
+perlDreamer	and without that, you're looking at symptoms, instead of cause	02:13
topsub	I click to add a thiny	02:15
topsub	thingy*	02:15
topsub	then when i click add thing	02:15
topsub	i get an error page	02:15
topsub	When it errors out it does add a 'thing' but its called "Thing Name"	02:17
topsub	when i click edit i get the error page again. So i'm confused about what happen	02:18
+perlDreamer	need to find out why it's erroring out when you add a thing	02:18
topsub	i emailed william to have him send me the logs again. This is on his server	02:18
+perlDreamer	does the database user have rights to add tables?	02:19
topsub	I would have to speak with william about that	02:19
+perlDreamer	topsub, another thing to try would be to turn on debug mode, and see what Add Thing returns	02:21
topsub	is this something i can do only using webgui?	02:21
+perlDreamer	totally	02:21
+perlDreamer	Become an Admin	02:22
+perlDreamer	go to settings	02:22
topsub	i don't have access to the server or command line	02:22
+perlDreamer	I think it's in the Misc tab	02:22
+perlDreamer	Enable Debug	02:22
topsub	within thingy?	02:22
+perlDreamer	no, in the Admin Console settings screen	02:22
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+perlDreamer	brb	02:23
topsub	i turned on debug then clicked add thing and this is what i got:	02:23
topsub	http://pastebin.com/9zT3fb6k	02:23
+perlDreamer	not much better...	02:36
+perlDreamer	my first guess is what I mentioned before, that the database user doesn't have create table privileges	02:36
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knowmad	I've a client who is having problems with Thingy. It's trying to run a statement from a table that doesn't exist.	04:43
knowmad	i've run findBrokenAssets.pl with no errors	04:44
knowmad	i've rebuilt the db	04:44
knowmad	with no erros	04:44
knowmad	all the Thingy tables are empty; i don't know where this bogus data is being stored	04:44
knowmad	any ideas?	04:44
@preaction	even Thingy_things is empty?	04:51
knowmad	hey preaction, yes it is; with debugging enabled, we've found that there's an odd SQL request to a table called WebGUI::Form::MarketCheckList. Ever heard of that?	04:52
@preaction	no, custom form field?	04:53
@preaction	clear the cache?	04:53
knowmad	tried the latter	04:53
knowmad	we don't have an asset by that name; maybe a bad theme	04:54
@preaction	was the thingy added from a package?	04:54
knowmad	nope, just stock	04:54
knowmad	but i think the error lies in the form asset that's trying to be loaded	04:54
@preaction	WebGUI::Form::MarketCheckList would be lib/WebGUI/Form/MarketCheckList.pm	04:54
knowmad	yep, checked and it's not	04:55
@preaction	any directories in sbin/preload.custom?	04:55
knowmad	yes! now i know what's loading it	04:55
knowmad	it's another site but i'll have to look deeper to figure out what that's affecting this site	04:56
knowmad	thanks!	04:56
@preaction	form controls are global, and Thingy looks for all of them	04:56
knowmad	and we've hard-coded the thingid for this form	04:57
knowmad	anyway to tell Thingy to avoid loading a form control?	04:57
@preaction	isDynamicCapable must return false iirc	04:57
@preaction	that'll keep it out of Profile fields, Thingy, and DataForm	04:57
knowmad	cool, one last question; how can i quickly check the domain name from a form control?	04:58
@preaction	from the session. session->url->getSiteName iirc	04:58
@preaction	or if you want something more trustworthy, session->config->getFileName iirc	04:58
knowmad	thanks, that'll put me in the right direction! (still don't know the API)	04:59
@preaction	yeah, it's too big. we're working on making it smaller ;)	04:59
knowmad	YAY!	04:59
@preaction	Plack, for example, does a lot of stuff for us. No more session->http. "var" is useless, merged with normal session. other stuff as well	05:01
knowmad	preaction: looks like isDynamicCompatible is a class method; don't think i'll have a session at this level will I?	05:03
@preaction	oh, then probably not no	05:03
knowmad	also, i'm guessing this is called once when the control is loaded	05:03
knowmad	i guess the only thing I can do is return a blank form control if we're not on the appropriate site	05:04
@preaction	no, it's called every time the control class is checked for inclusion in Thingy, DataForm, Profile, or others	05:04
knowmad	ok, so other ideas on how i can determine whether to return 1 or 0 based on the site being viewed?	05:04
@preaction	you could try something in %ENV, but good luck there	05:05
knowmad	i don't mind hard-coding the sitename into the control but as you can see, i don't know how to figure out what's calling	05:05
knowmad	ok	05:05
knowmad	i'll try it	05:05
@preaction	you could ADD something to %ENV actually, that might be easier. Apache has "SetEnv" which applies to requests if it's in a <VirtualHost> block	05:06
knowmad	Ohh! I like that idea	05:06
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knowmad	preaction: that worked! thanks for the help	05:16
@preaction	np	05:16
knowmad	in isDynamicCompatible, I set return 1 if $ENV{"FormControl_MarketCheckList"};	05:17
knowmad	in my modperl conf i set PerlSetEnv FormControl_MarketCheckList 1	05:17
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SynQ	jo!	10:44
SynQ	good morning	10:45
ryuu_ro	morning	10:45
SynQ	:)	10:45
SynQ	no bart in sight?	10:45
ryuu_ro	not yet	10:45
SynQ	how would webgui perform on some ssd drives?	10:46
SynQ	>:)	10:47
ryuu_ro	there's only one way to find out	10:47
SynQ	I know	10:48
SynQ	I bet it works wonderfully	10:48
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SynQ	ah	10:56
SynQ	good morning	10:56
+MrHairgrease	howdy	10:57
+bartjol	internet again?	10:58
SynQ	sure thing	11:01
SynQ	and what a fast internet it is	11:02
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+bartjol	any germans here?	14:53
plainhao	nein	14:57
plainhao	keine	14:57
+bartjol	schade	15:00
+bartjol	plainhao: we didn meet during the wuc, did we?	15:06
+bartjol	or weren you there?	15:06
plainhao	i have not attended a wuc	15:10
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+bartjol	waxhead? only slightly different from Hairgrease	15:44
+bartjol	greasy business here	15:44
waxhead	bartjol, it's a colloquialism for a surfer...	15:45
waxhead	harkens back to a time long long ago...	15:45
waxhead	when I lived on the coast and spent my youth surfing waves	15:46
+bartjol	ah,well the Hairgrease is still present, it? a repelleant for people who want to touch his hair	15:46
+bartjol	but, aha, thanks for the explanation	15:46
+MrHairgrease	and it repels water as well!	15:46
+bartjol	mmm, back to templating	15:47
SDuensin	Morning.	16:31
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elnino	is the ukplayer normall come with wg?	17:11
* elnino just found the wiki.		17:11
elnino	cool	17:11
elnino	thanks uk!	17:11
SDuensin	Hi guys.	17:18
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+bartjol	what? up SDuensin?	17:22
SDuensin	Toying with WebGUI and some other crap. Too much tech, too little time.	17:22
SDuensin	Did the Template Working Group stop working? What happened to that?	17:23
+bartjol	well, they are still alive	17:23
+bartjol	and they had a meeting last week	17:23
SDuensin	Tell them I hate my forums. :-)	17:23
+bartjol	well	17:23
+bartjol	then you must alter them :)	17:24
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SDuensin	Yea. No time at the moment. And my design "skillz" aren't the best.	17:25
+bartjol	ah, designing... well, don ask my help	17:31
SDuensin	Right now, I'm trying to decide if I want to build everything I'm missing for WebGUI (preferred, but not time effective) or gasp use something else for a few sites. :-(	17:34
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+bartjol	well it depends what you want and if there is a better alternative... well	17:43
SDuensin	I want everything, of course. Typical user. :-D	17:45
+bartjol	everything and yesterday	17:46
+bartjol	mm, still no germans here	17:47
SDuensin	:-)	17:47
SDuensin	I dunno man. I love WebGUI, but I keep running into problems. I realize nothing is perfect.	17:48
+bartjol	and those problems aren an easy fix?	17:49
+bartjol	custom macro here and there	17:50
SDuensin	Some, yea. Others, not so much. I mean, I can go bolting other stuff to WebGUI to fill in the gaps. That seems to be the "de-facto" solution for everyone else. Sucks, IMHO.	17:50
+bartjol	well, it is called a web application framework	17:50
SDuensin	I offered to build a bud of mine a community site for his development project he's doing. He hates the forums. I'm not a big fan of the wiki. Just a bunch of little stuff. Kind of one of those "death by a thousand cuts" things with me right now.	17:51
+bartjol	yeah, the collaboration system is a bit grown out of is shoes	17:52
+bartjol	and it is hard to get a default right for everyone	17:52
SDuensin	I've done the Drupal thing, Joomla, etc. They all miss what I believe are core features. Drupal's security system gets crazy for anything remotely complicated and Joomla...well, we'll just be nice and say I didn't like it. :-)	17:53
+bartjol	\so I understand yopur pain (and do have it myself) , but it hard to please evreyone	17:53
+bartjol	:)	17:53
SDuensin	I know it is. I'm just venting.	17:53
+bartjol	that? ok\	17:53
SDuensin	Been looking at TikiWiki a bit. It's pretty impressive but I can't determine if it's actually nicely assembled or just a patchwork of crap they bolted together.	17:54
+bartjol	thin red line	17:54
SDuensin	Very.	17:54
SDuensin	Dangerous one, too.	17:55
+bartjol	I had it with my presentations by the way, last year internationalisation, which sucked back then (and is soso now, but had to make it myself)	17:56
+bartjol	I don know tikiwiki	17:56
SDuensin	I need to just carry out my threat to make WebGUI an authentication source on my LAN. Instead of it working with LDAP, make it BE LDAP. :-D	17:56
SDuensin	TikiWiki is crazy. They've got about everything bolted on to it.	17:57
+bartjol	well, when I read their initioal feature list, I thought: WG has that too, Wg has this too etc	17:58
+bartjol	but implemantation can make a huge difference	17:58
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+bartjol	whoohoo, telephone: how do I add a page?	18:07
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+bartjol	perldreamer is a pastebin good enough?	18:11
+perlDreamer	oh sure dude	18:11
+perlDreamer	I'm sure it's doing the right thing	18:11
+bartjol	i?l clean it up a bit	18:11
+perlDreamer	but if you want a double check I'd be happy to read it	18:11
SDuensin	Crap. My video card reset. Reading scrollback.	18:13
@preaction	SDuensin: if you've got the time, i've got the desire to overhaul nearly every application in webgui	18:14
@preaction	some need only minor adjustments, such as Gallery. others need more major things, like creating a Blog and Forum asset to replace uses of Collaboration	18:14
SDuensin	preaction: I wish my Perl-Fu was better to help.	18:14
@preaction	ah, mais oui	18:15
SynQ	good day	18:15
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, there are always things to do to help, for people of any skill level, but lots of desire	18:15
+perlDreamer	plus, we're willing to mentor	18:15
SDuensin	For now, I think I'm just going to write some ugly glue to get BigBlueButton integrated. Gotta figure this stupid video driver out first.	18:16
+perlDreamer	yo, SynQ!	18:16
SDuensin	Yea, I know. You guys rock. Almost worked with you, remember? :-P	18:16
SynQ	yo perlDreamer!	18:16
+perlDreamer	are extra little Q's yet?	18:16
SynQ	nope	18:16
SynQ	still in the making	18:16
SynQ	gotta go work on the attic some more	18:18
SynQ	it's nearing completion	18:18
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+bartjol	http://webgui.pastebin.org/835319	18:24
+bartjol	and the sub comparion is called with the configFile	18:24
+perlDreamer	hm, rizen has a little too much time on his hands: http://blogs.perl.org/users/jt_smith/2010/09/perl-event-of-the-summer.html#comments	18:24
+bartjol	there is some extra bogus code for testing in there though	18:25
+bartjol	commented most of it	18:25
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+bartjol	cleaned up the other script to get old i18n messages in other languages	18:33
+bartjol	and also posted it	18:34
+bartjol	I think they are ok, but, they produce differnt numbers than I get with a grep	18:34
+bartjol	mmm, something is wrong with something between my laptop and the pastebin site	18:42
ryuu_ro	bartjol: is it the user?	18:42
+bartjol	no, I sit just outsie that traject	18:43
ryuu_ro	:)	18:43
+bartjol	but, never forget that possibility	18:43
ryuu_ro	PEBCAK dude	18:43
+bartjol	aah, there it is	18:44
+bartjol	835389	18:45
+perlDreamer	ryuu_ro, no capitalized dutch swear words in channel, please	18:45
ryuu_ro	:)	18:45
SDuensin	This BBB API looks pretty simple. Are there facilities in WebGUI for dealing with REST APIs already? (Damn dev guide is at home again.)	18:47
+bartjol	SDuensin: do you have polish speaking users?	18:47
SDuensin	Nope.	18:47
+bartjol	that tikiwiki easily switches between them	18:48
+bartjol	it seems they think in categories, I? more object oriented	18:48
SDuensin	Any progress on a 64-bit WRE?	19:00
patspam	http://blog.patspam.com/2010/wuc-2010-post-conference-wrap	19:00
ryuu_ro	thanks for the new australian word Pat :)	19:01
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+bartjol	mmm, chicken	19:02
+MrHairgrease	where's the dunny mate?	19:03
patspam	:)	19:03
@frodwith	So I'm futzing with a 7.6.24 webgui, and frowning at this problem. I have a script that gets the working version tag, changes its name, deletes some assets, and adds some new assets, then commits the tag. Problem is, after the tag gets committed, one of the assets the script created is still locked, no matter what I do. The tag is committed, but the asset is still locked under it. Anyone have a clue where to start looking?	19:03
+perlDreamer	frodwith, make sure that the asset can be instanced	19:04
@frodwith	aroo?	19:04
+perlDreamer	patspam: there's some left-over owsies from the WUC	19:04
patspam	owsies?	19:04
+perlDreamer	a translation of WebGUI in your native tongue?	19:05
patspam	heh I got out of that due to scheduling	19:05
@frodwith	perlDreamer: what do you mean, make sure it can be instanced?	19:06
+perlDreamer	frodwith: due to table level problems, you can have an asset in a tag that can't be instanced	19:06
+perlDreamer	since it can't be instanced, it can't be operated on	19:06
+perlDreamer	like committing it	19:06
@frodwith	this is a verb I'm not familiar with	19:06
@frodwith	instanciated?	19:06
+perlDreamer	hm, someone wasn't paying attention during my WUC talk	19:07
+MrHairgrease	as long there's a roo on the barbie and all the gutless wonders are gone, no worries.	19:07
@frodwith	I was paying attention to your webgui 8 assets talk	19:07
@frodwith	very much attention!	19:07
+perlDreamer	$asset = WebGUI::Asset->newByDynamicClass($session, $assetId); # get an instance	19:07
+perlDreamer	instance => instanced => instanciated	19:07
+MrHairgrease	anyway gotta go	19:08
+MrHairgrease	see ya	19:08
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@frodwith	okeydoke. just a nomenclature thing, never heard someone use 'instance' as a verb before ;)	19:08
+perlDreamer	crap! I'm inventing English again	19:08
* bartjol thinks perlDreamer is still baffled by my horrible code		19:08
@frodwith	i'll make sure though.	19:08
+perlDreamer	bartjol, it's not horrible	19:08
+bartjol	therefore starts inventing english	19:08
+perlDreamer	I think it may count some things twice	19:08
+bartjol	no, that is why I shift it out of that array	19:09
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+bartjol	allthough, if it is a triple duplicate it will get counted twice	19:10
+perlDreamer	that's what I was thinking, but as long as it keeps track of where it's duplicated so we can clean it up, that's fine	19:11
+bartjol	and there are not too much	19:12
+bartjol	now, I gotta move on and get the locations in the code	19:12
+bartjol	is this mostly to prevent problems during the flattening?	19:14
+perlDreamer	no, although it will make flattening easier	19:15
+perlDreamer	however, recalling Haarg's discussion from yesterday, he mainly added those WebGUI 8 ticket items as reminder for him to do things, rather than projects for people to take up	19:16
+bartjol	I don believe there is an WebGUI API to add i18n tags, is there?	19:16
+bartjol	yeah, well	19:16
+perlDreamer	no	19:16
+perlDreamer	it's just perl code	19:17
+bartjol	would be nice to be able to delete them	19:17
SDuensin	How's 8 coming?	19:17
+bartjol	allthough that could require some trial and error	19:17
+bartjol	I got it running	19:17
+perlDreamer	SDuensin: http://www.webgui.org/8	19:17
@frodwith	what's a state of 'trash-limbo' mean?	19:18
+bartjol	but, considering my extra interpretation of the issue, should I make another one? or include it in the current one	19:18
@frodwith	child of a trashed asset?	19:18
+bartjol	oh, yeah, that one is cool	19:18
@khenn	is scrottie around?	19:19
+bartjol	I remember having that once	19:19
+perlDreamer	yup, that's it frodwith	19:19
+perlDreamer	khenn, it's a little early for scrottie	19:19
@khenn	yeah I figured	19:19
@khenn	thanks perlDreamer	19:19
+perlDreamer	he says he's in Arizona, but we tease him that he's physically in Hawaii	19:19
+perlDreamer	frodwith, I'm 80% sure there are bugs with trying to commit assets in trash-limbo	19:20
+perlDreamer	in any version of WebGUI earlier than 7.8	19:20
@frodwith	i have no idea why it's in trash-limbo	19:20
@frodwith	i didn't delete it	19:20
@frodwith	boggle	19:20
+perlDreamer	does it have a parent?	19:21
@frodwith	hmm. this doesn't even seem to be the same asset	19:22
@frodwith	i got it with newByUrl since i didn't know the id	19:22
@frodwith	and some other asset has the same url, but it's in the trash	19:22
@frodwith	this is a fine kettle of fish	19:22
+perlDreamer	shouldn't have the same URL	19:22
+perlDreamer	that's supposed to be a unique key	19:22
@frodwith	yes indeed	19:22
@frodwith	... it's parent is also in trash limbo, and -that- asset thinks its parent is the import node	19:24
+perlDreamer	much badness	19:25
@frodwith	yeah, something is extremely screwy here	19:25
+perlDreamer	frodwith, the assetHistory table may be of use to figure out what happened	19:25
+perlDreamer	it records most asset work	19:25
SDuensin	WRE is big. Guess I'll nap while it trickles down over my phone.	19:28
SDuensin	I'm going to attempt to build a BBB module. Be warned. :-)	19:29
+perlDreamer	Better Business Bureau?	19:29
SDuensin	BigBlueButton	19:29
+bartjol	it is a BBBOD	19:30
ryuu_ro	hey bartjol, you heard perlDreamer, no capitalized dutch swearing!	19:31
SDuensin	Shouldn't be too hard to write. There's only a few REST calls to implement to the BBB API.	19:31
SDuensin	Maybe I can even put it on the MarketPlace for $5 or something.	19:32
SDuensin	Probably just give it away. :-)	19:32
+bartjol	MICROSOFT	19:32
ryuu_ro	there you have it	19:32
SDuensin	lol	19:32
+bartjol	too easy	19:33
SDuensin	No, bartjol, then there'd be seven different editions where only the most expensive one worked right.	19:33
SDuensin	Er, "worked". Let's not add "right" to that.	19:33
ryuu_ro	worked right? worked ok(ish) :)	19:33
+perlDreamer	worked kinda sorta maybe but only on odd-numbered Sundays in months that end in y	19:34
ryuu_ro	hehehe	19:34
SDuensin	How come the longer this downloads, the more time is left? That's not good!	19:41
+bartjol	ggrrrr	19:42
SDuensin	I know. I want to get going before I lose this crazy streak.	19:42
+bartjol	to determine where i18n tags are used I also need the db, since it might very well be that standard templates call on them with the i18n macro	19:43
+perlDreamer	yes	19:44
+perlDreamer	and in the user profile	19:44
+bartjol	joy	19:44
+perlDreamer	since profile field labels and values can be i18n'ed	19:44
+bartjol	scripting and manual grepping/selecting might just be as easy as writing a script to do it for you	19:45
+bartjol	loose the first scripting	19:46
* SDuensin hands bartjol a few more "o"s in case he needs them.		19:53
SDuensin	Bored. Wish food was here.	19:56
+perlDreamer	bartjol, that's entirely possible	19:57
+bartjol	but for the several 1000? of deprecated i18n tags in other languages than English, it might not be	19:58
+perlDreamer	bartjol, I thought that the i18n CGI was supposed to remove those	19:59
+bartjol	apparently not	20:01
+bartjol	I don see a sub that seems to do that, but it was a very quick glance	20:04
+perlDreamer	you're right	20:07
+bartjol	well, I added a file that sums those tags up	20:07
+bartjol	that might be used as a base for an extra sub in the i18n	20:08
+bartjol	but people should stay out of there with their custom i18n files	20:09
SDuensin	It's HERE! WRE time!	20:12
+perlDreamer	preaction: any objection to me keeping a templates.txt doc, that lists template changes during upgrades and fixes?	20:42
* perlDreamer repeats the ongoing gripe about debuggin JS in IE		20:58
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patspam	aircrack-ng++	21:07
ryuu_ro	pat: kiddly-winks = kids smiles?	21:08
* scrottie0 thinks for a minute		21:08
patspam	ryuu_ro: if you'd said tiddly-winks I'd know what you were talking about.. but kiddly-winks?	21:09
ryuu_ro	andy dropped it on me	21:09
ryuu_ro	what are tiddly-winks then?	21:09
patspam	it's a game	21:09
ryuu_ro	ah	21:09
ryuu_ro	probably not what he meant	21:10
patspam	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiddlywinks	21:10
+perlDreamer	patspam++	21:10
patspam	don't worry, often he just makes up words to confuse people ;)	21:10
scrottie0	huh, so that's what Tiddlywinks really is.	21:11
ryuu_ro	he does a very good job	21:11
scrottie0	wgd needs to inform me of new email on IRC.	21:13
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* scrottie ponders his existance		21:26
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SDuensin	scrottie, you could exist to write my BBB integration code for me.	21:30
+perlDreamer	scrottie, you are a carbon based infestation on a small planet in sector 000	21:30
* SDuensin is still trying to make WebGUI run on his dev box. Dang slow CPAN!		21:30
+perlDreamer	just like the rest of us	21:30
ryuu_ro	tit's all good as long as you don't forget your towel and don't panic	21:31
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* SDuensin is a hoopy frood who knows exactly where his towel is.		21:31
ryuu_ro	:) nice!!	21:32
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r46c548d / (3 files in 3 dirs): Restore the lost changes to the JS and template for drag and drop sorting in IE7. - http://bit.ly/aTtT35	21:33
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb63fe8e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Updated to master branch. - http://bit.ly/a0p3yH	21:33
SDuensin	Ok, what is CHI and why won't it install?	21:33
ryuu_ro	I had the same problem	21:34
ryuu_ro	install Test::Tester	21:34
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r094b029 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Restore the lost changes to the JS and template for drag and drop sorting in IE7. - http://bit.ly/bULShA	21:34
+perlDreamer	SDuensin is the new, fast, awesome caching module	21:34
ryuu_ro	and then something like Test::Log::Dispatch does the work	21:34
ryuu_ro	I was supposed to write a wiki or dev mail about this, but I forgot it, sorry preaction :(	21:35
+perlDreamer	we should file a bug against CHI, on CPAN	21:35
+perlDreamer	but it would be nice to have a wiki page for it	21:35
SDuensin	ryuu_ro: Thanks, man. Fixed it right up!	21:35
ryuu_ro	no problem	21:36
ryuu_ro	I'm gonna work on it perlDreamer, I installed webgui8 for the 9th time now and finally everything works so I'm gonna share	21:37
SDuensin	Sweet.	21:37
ryuu_ro	anybody interested in a Parallels WebGUI8 template?	21:37
SDuensin	VMware guy here. :-P	21:38
ryuu_ro	we can never meet :D	21:38
+perlDreamer	speaking of VMware, we need to update the VMware image for WebGUI	21:38
SDuensin	Although, I am moving my servers from VMware to KVM/Ganeti.	21:39
ryuu_ro	does KVM/Ganeti also work on Xen/Ganeti?	21:40
SDuensin	KVM replaces Xen. I was never able to make Xen work.	21:41
ryuu_ro	ah ok	21:41
SDuensin	I don't do paravirtulization anyway, so KVM with full OSs inside is fine for me.	21:41
ryuu_ro	sure thing	21:42
ryuu_ro	SDuensin: are you installing webgui8 on a new and clean wre0.9.3?	21:43
SDuensin	Not 8. Whatever the WRE downloads for me. I need to write a module.	21:44
ryuu_ro	ah ok	21:44
SDuensin	(Since I haven't been able to talk anyone else into doing it!)	21:44
ryuu_ro	I thought the Test::Tester problem was WebGUI 8 related	21:45
SDuensin	7.9.13-stable is what I have.	21:45
SDuensin	testEnvironment was unable to install CHI.	21:46
SDuensin	Ok, it's running. Just in time for my meeting.	21:49
SDuensin	With luck, I'll get to break/work on it later.	21:50
ryuu_ro	perlDreamer: should I report the bug about Test::Tester to the author of CHI?	21:52
ryuu_ro	or is it WRE related?	21:52
+perlDreamer	I would, although it could be coming from an upstream dependency	21:52
+perlDreamer	it is not WRE related	21:52
ryuu_ro	ok	21:52
ryuu_ro	I'm gonna report it and see what happens	21:53
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5608a43 / (6 files in 6 dirs):	21:58
CIA-21	webgui: topStory template variables should be available in standAlone and not standAlone	21:58
CIA-21	webgui: modes. Added template variables for delete and edit icons for the top story.	21:58
CIA-21	webgui: Updated the tests, template and template variable help. Fixes bug #11851. -	21:58
CIA-21	webgui: http://bit.ly/cpTpu4	21:58
ryuu_ro	ok, I remembering something about command line bug reporting for perl modules. Can somebody give me a direction?	21:58
+perlDreamer	is it perlbug?	21:59
+perlDreamer	maybe that's just for the perl core	21:59
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * re5b4fff / (6 files in 6 dirs):	21:59
CIA-21	webgui: topStory template variables should be available in standAlone and not standAlone	21:59
CIA-21	webgui: modes. Added template variables for delete and edit icons for the top story.	21:59
CIA-21	webgui: Updated the tests, template and template variable help. Fixes bug #11851. -	21:59
CIA-21	webgui: http://bit.ly/cbqGRn	21:59
ryuu_ro	hmm, I guess it was so no, I can't use command line then :)	21:59
* perlDreamer breaks for lunch		22:06
+perlDreamer	bbiaw	22:06
ryuu_ro	ok CHI bug reported	22:13
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--- Day changed Fri Sep 10 2010
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* SDuensin is back! DevGuide in hand!		00:15
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SDuensin	Everybody hiding?	01:05
+perlDreamer	nope, I'm here	01:07
+perlDreamer	had to play an emergency game of foosball with the kiddos	01:07
SDuensin	hehe	01:07
+perlDreamer	if I spend 10 minutes with them when they come home, they're happy all afternoon	01:07
SDuensin	Nice	01:08
SDuensin	Ok, I've decided I should write a wobject instead of just an asset. Is there already something loaded that I should use to do REST/XML kinda stuff?	01:08
+perlDreamer	for XML, WebGUI uses XML::PurePP, and XML::Simple	01:09
+perlDreamer	afaik, nothing else in WebGUI does REST	01:09
+perlDreamer	sorry, XML::TreePP	01:09
SDuensin	It'd be enough to just be able to do something like: resultXML = httpGet("someURL?and=crap")	01:10
SDuensin	What's being used for syndication?	01:11
+perlDreamer	XML::FeedPP	01:11
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SDuensin	Ok, so that's not much help.	01:12
@preaction	LWP::Simple + XML::Simple = my $xmlAsHash = xmlIn( get( "someurl" ) )	01:14
SDuensin	Ooooooooo	01:15
SDuensin	That is ::Simple!	01:15
@preaction	XML::Simple does strange things to more advanced XML, so be careful there	01:15
+perlDreamer	yeah, you can say that again	01:15
SDuensin	This is really simple XML.	01:16
SDuensin	Basically result codes and a few lists.	01:16
@preaction	as long as it doesn't do something like <elem attr="value"><attr>Other Value</attr></elem> you'll probably be fine (note that "attr" and "attr" are the same)	01:17
SDuensin	Not even sure it uses attributes.	01:18
SDuensin	Yea, I don't see any.	01:19
SDuensin	I may not even need a database for this first version. :-)	01:21
@preaction	eh, just saying if you don't get the data structure you expect, it's probably XMLin screwing things up	01:21
SDuensin	This is the most complicated thing I see (look at the return value): http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/API#Get_Meeting_Info_(getMeetingInfo)	01:22
+perlDreamer	if you work hard enough, you can bend XMLin to your will	01:22
+perlDreamer	but it's difficult, and fragile	01:22
@preaction	so yes, it's good for a v1, but when you decide to release the code to other people, you should probably move to a more proper parser like TreePP	01:24
SDuensin	TreePP has a parsehttp method. That'll work.	01:25
SDuensin	Thanks guys.	01:31
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@scrottie	XML::Simple really needs ForceArray => 1... otherwise the apparent shape of the data changes.	01:48
@scrottie	it's better to have arrays of one element than to have something that's sometimes a scalar and sometimes an array.	01:49
@scrottie	looks like XML::TreePP has the same problem. that's too bad.	01:49
SDuensin	:-/	01:52
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+perlDreamer	yay! Image based hoverhelp is working	02:43
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+perlDreamer	now all I need to do is get a search interface for the IRC logs up and running, and I'll be all caught up from the WUC	02:58
SDuensin	Congrats. I'm trying to get the very early stages of my Wobject written.	03:01
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, start with the wobject skeleton	03:25
scrottie0	huh, XML::Simple is a prereq. I thought that module was universally scorned. good. my stupid importer thingy uses it.	03:40
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SDuensin	Yea, the skeleton.minimum is what I started with.	04:36
SDuensin	I'll be hauling my DevGuide with me to my "real" job tomorrow.	04:38
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scrottie0	&	05:07
scrottie0	er...	05:07
* scrottie0 &		05:07
SDuensin	fg	05:10
SDuensin	See, that's why there's no stand-up UNIX humor. Just doesn't work.	05:10
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xdanger	hmm... wondering why Moose didn't install its dependencies with cpan	10:31
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+bartjol	SquOnk: you are also maintaining the Spanish translation, right?	15:39
SquOnk	bartjol: Yep	15:40
SquOnk	bartjol: I check it about every other week	15:40
+bartjol	ah, would you have a look for me at a file	15:40
SquOnk	bartjol: Sure, which one?	15:40
+bartjol	it is about duplicate entries	15:40
+bartjol	one moment searching url	15:40
+bartjol	on http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11713	15:41
+bartjol	on the right side the duplicatesSpanish.txt	15:41
+bartjol	the question is, would they really be duplicates in Spansih	15:41
+bartjol	?	15:41
SquOnk	bartjol: At first glance, all seem to be duplicates except WebGUI.556 and Asset_Product.quantity	15:45
SquOnk	In spanish "cantidad" can be used to mean quantity, amount and number	15:45
SquOnk	So, depending of WebGUI.556's context it could be a duplicate.	15:46
+bartjol	ok, I'll add this as a comment, to be sure I check this, I'll go looking for the uses	15:46
SquOnk	bartjol: Great	15:49
SquOnk	bartjol: Are we moving to a proper i18n handling via .po files?	15:49
+bartjol	I don't know, I'm just there to detect duplicates	15:51
SquOnk	bartjol: I see.	15:51
+bartjol	they will be moving to another system, but not shortly	15:51
SquOnk	bartjol: Right now, the current i18n implementation takes LOTS of memory, specially if one has several languages installed.	15:51
+bartjol	also, there are a bunch of deprecated i18n tags in all languages accept English	15:52
SquOnk	bartjol: Moving to gettext will reduce the memory footprint and enhance performance.	15:52
+bartjol	+/- 800 per language	15:52
+bartjol	well, I can support that	15:52
+bartjol	is that an existing path webgui is gonna take, or a wish from you?	15:52
+bartjol	the plack demo looked quite fast already	15:53
+bartjol	plack-starman	15:53
+bartjol	and on my laptop 8 feels faster than 7	15:53
+bartjol	less functionality though	15:54
SquOnk	bartjol: I've talked about it with perldreamer and preaction.	15:54
SquOnk	There... spanish at 100% again.	15:54
+bartjol	haarg is also working on it afaik , at leat with the rebuild of the translation server	15:54
SquOnk	Just in time for 7.9.14 and (hopefully) Debian Squeeze :-)	15:54
+bartjol	:)	15:55
+bartjol	problem with the list is that it searches for exact strings, so trailing spaces are not taken into account	16:00
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:39
+bartjol	morning	16:55
SDuensin	Yea! People! :-)	16:56
+bartjol	are you sure, you never seen me in flesh	16:57
SDuensin	At this point, it doesn't matter. I'd settle for a good bot.	16:58
+bartjol	so what do you want to select from my database?	16:59
SDuensin	I'm reading the DevGuide, so that's likely the beginning of my problems... :-D I don't quite get how prepareView() works with a Wobject that has multiple view templates.	17:00
+bartjol	what module is that function in, and where in the dev guide?	17:01
SDuensin	The module I'm attempting to write based on _Wobject.skeleton.minimal and page, uh, 182?	17:02
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+bartjol	whoa, the pages are the same	17:04
SDuensin	?	17:04
+bartjol	182	17:04
SDuensin	Wow. We have the exact same book? Amazing.	17:05
+bartjol	so you mean like a cs that had for instance a thread and a cs view?	17:05
+bartjol	because threads and cs's are different assets	17:05
+bartjol	eeeh, forget the word because	17:06
+bartjol	so only 1 view would be prepared in this case	17:06
SDuensin	I think so. Or, in my case, a list of crap and a screen to add new crap. Where "crap" isn't actually stored by WebGUI.	17:06
+bartjol	ah, that edit screen will have a different template I guess	17:07
SDuensin	I want to build a WebGUI-based UI using WebGUI users and security to connect to BigBlueButton: http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/API	17:08
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SDuensin	Basically, I want a simple configuration screen for the admin, the Wobject output is a list of available conferences and a couple details about them. Moderators can create new conferences or remove existing ones. General users can join existing ones. No fancier than that.	17:11
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+bartjol	well, I'd just look at other Wobjects how they use it	17:15
+bartjol	better stolen properly than made poorly	17:15
SDuensin	I have been.	17:15
SDuensin	:-)	17:15
+bartjol	I haven't yet	17:15
+bartjol	as far as I can see, there is put a toolbar and some metadata into the template	17:18
+bartjol	or per view function, but probably one kind of request should just call one view type	17:19
+bartjol	so multiple becomes single :)	17:19
+bartjol	but that is my quick interpretation	17:19
+bartjol	or in the www_view method, there is already info on what should be shown, therefore just selecting 1 view	17:21
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+bartjol	in f.i. the shortcut it looks that way	17:21
+bartjol	but if someone says otherwise, doubt my words (but theirs too)	17:22
+bartjol	ryuu_ro: you made more assets than I did, am I correct	17:23
ryuu_ro	you are correct	17:23
* SDuensin is worrying about one view at a time for now.		17:26
+bartjol	ok, that is clear, you need different subs for different views	17:28
SDuensin	Yea, I got that part.	17:28
+bartjol	I asked rory	17:28
+bartjol	he is in the next office	17:28
@preaction	SDuensin: other views usually don't have prepareView, because they don't have the separation between view and www_view. prepareView is just there to put head tags in the head block when the asset is being used in a Layout	17:29
ryuu_ro	or the previous office depending where you are at the moment :)	17:29
SDuensin	I've done this before. Dunno what's wrong with my brain today.	17:30
+bartjol	does it leak?	17:31
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patspam	mornin'	17:35
+bartjol	Howdy, mate	17:35
patspam	goedemorgen	17:35
ryuu_ro	nice!	17:36
patspam	or I guess Goedenavond for you..?	17:36
ryuu_ro	almost	17:36
+bartjol	voor jullie	17:36
+bartjol	but still, very good	17:36
patspam	I found the oqapi office on foursquare the other day	17:37
+bartjol	not google street view?	17:37
patspam	I saw Rory checking in, I think he's gunning to be mayor	17:38
+bartjol	gunning? he shoots everybody, so he is the only one and is allowed to be the boss?	17:39
patspam	that would work..	17:40
+bartjol	guns aren't allowed here	17:40
ryuu_ro	seriously, I created the Oqapi office and the only one checking in	17:40
ryuu_ro	but still no mayor yet :(	17:40
patspam	heh yeah, i think there's a minimum number of times you have to check in :)	17:41
ryuu_ro	I'm also not the mayor of my own home, Lisa is :)	17:41
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+bartjol	strange stuff, sounds like a facebook game	17:41
patspam	apparently you need to go there twice on two separate days..?	17:42
patspam	ryuu_ro: you should get joeri to claim the business.. then he can offer foursquare specials to people who check in ;)	17:44
ryuu_ro	everybody who checks in for the fifth time, get a free cup of nespresso Forte	17:45
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patspam	andyiomoon indahouse	17:48
+bartjol	well, I don't provide more services outside the beer cooling on fryday	17:53
ryuu_ro	so guys, time to go home :)	18:03
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+bartjol	Haarg: has it any use for me to alter the translationserver cgi to let it remove removed tags in other languages?	18:11
+bartjol	or are you changing it anyway	18:11
SDuensin	OK, now that stupidity is done here, back to my Wobject.	18:11
xdanger	yey! after few hour of cpan, webgui8 runs! BUAHAHAHAH	18:50
+bartjol	few hours? oh yeah, I used my 7 wre, that makes quite some difference	18:51
+bartjol	but, very good	18:51
+bartjol	it took me quite some time as well	18:51
xdanger	love the new debug, like the new admin console	18:51
+bartjol	yeah, but in my site it isn't working yet (or I have the wrong template)	18:52
xdanger	I had to install a new perl (5.12.1) on my mac os x	18:52
+bartjol	aaah	18:52
xdanger	I don't like wre that much =)	18:52
xdanger	but macports to the rescue	18:53
xdanger	I could have just runned the systems 5.10.1, but I wanted the new and shiny	18:53
xdanger	hacked a i18n addition that list every i18n get call with a url to i18n.webgui.org to that line when debug is on =)	18:54
+bartjol	oh, that might be usefull	18:56
+bartjol	but it actually refers to a tag on i18n.webgui.org	18:56
+bartjol	?	18:56
xdanger	yes	18:57
xdanger	but it's quite a hack, on 7.9.13	18:57
+bartjol	cool so translating in context will be possible	18:57
+bartjol	I can believe	18:57
+bartjol	the url's in i18n.webgui.org are quite flat	18:57
xdanger	I was thinking about deploying my own translation server that links to the running webguis translations and loads the changes via Apache2::Reload	18:58
+bartjol	sounds almost like a dynamic i18n CDN functionality (performance will not get better though)	18:59
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xdanger	I wasn't going to run that on my main server	19:00
+bartjol	do you do an upkeep for a specific language	19:00
+bartjol	:)\	19:00
xdanger	I'm not that crazy =)	19:00
xdanger	Finnish	19:00
xdanger	but I have a client that has pages in 6 languages	19:01
+bartjol	whoa	19:01
xdanger	http://www.datapartner.fi/	19:01
+bartjol	I van only hope that dutch, german, spanish and english are 4 of them	19:01
xdanger	nope	19:02
xdanger	=)	19:02
+bartjol	only 2 of those	19:02
xdanger	but they will translate some of the functions	19:02
xdanger	mainly the user registration etc. thats visible to the end user	19:02
+bartjol	well the stuff that is actually used is the most important	19:03
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+bartjol	but, are you going to put that i18n trick in the bazaar? I'd love to see that	19:04
xdanger	if some would do a ajaxy yui interface to it =)	19:05
+perlDreamer	that could happen	19:05
xdanger	it's about 20-30 lines of diff =)	19:05
+bartjol	ah, it is our conscience, telling us to test	19:05
+perlDreamer	I came in too late, what is it?	19:05
xdanger	now what did I break there	19:05
xdanger	I'll show you soon	19:05
+bartjol	a function that makes links to the translationserver	19:05
+bartjol	from i18n'd objects	19:06
+bartjol	or at least shows url's	19:06
+bartjol	so you can translate from web context	19:06
+perlDreamer	I really like the sound of that	19:06
+bartjol	jep, me too	19:07
+perlDreamer	preaction: today is catchup day!	19:08
xdanger	haha, I just broke something... I'll have a demo and a diff for you shortly	19:08
+perlDreamer	I have one thing to do, and then I'd really like to make a new VMware image with modern WRE and WebGUI	19:08
+perlDreamer	can you set me up to do that?	19:08
+perlDreamer	I can make a virtual box one pretty easily	19:08
xdanger	haha, no.. I didn't break anything the visitor just doesn't see it because the language is English =D	19:10
+bartjol	:)	19:10
+perlDreamer	so what happens if we install this, and then someone uses an i18n link that's been removed?	19:11
+perlDreamer	like during the recent Shop upgrade	19:11
xdanger	http://test.mentalhouse.fi/home	19:11
xdanger	now it only links to i18n.webgui.org	19:11
+perlDreamer	okay, xdanger, I'm there. now what do I do?	19:12
xdanger	do you see the debug?	19:13
xdanger	did I put a ip range on it	19:13
+perlDreamer	I see some debug	19:13
+perlDreamer	6 queries logged	19:13
+perlDreamer	ah, there's a little table	19:13
+perlDreamer	but it's empty	19:13
xdanger	maybe there's some cache..	19:14
+bartjol	mmm, my lighter empied itself in my pocket	19:14
+bartjol	it is not empty with me	19:14
+perlDreamer	bartjol, your pants are on fire!	19:14
+perlDreamer	which makes it easy to light a cigarette	19:15
+bartjol	nu, it just feels cold	19:15
xdanger	now?	19:15
+perlDreamer	same	19:15
+perlDreamer	maybe on this page there are no visible i18n tags?	19:15
xdanger	there should be some	19:16
xdanger	on every page	19:16
xdanger	atleast login	19:16
+perlDreamer	for visitor?	19:16
+bartjol	I do get a "Visitor (1) connecting from my.ip.add.ress attempted to execute an invalid operation: setLanguage "	19:16
+perlDreamer	xdanger, maybe flush the server side cache?	19:16
xdanger	I did	19:17
xdanger	hmm.. It works for me on a different browser	19:17
+perlDreamer	this is FF 3.6.9	19:18
+bartjol	I did make a language changes though	19:18
xdanger	strange	19:19
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+bartjol	but perfectly here xdanger, looking very good	19:20
+perlDreamer	I don't see any place to make language changes	19:20
* scrottie wonders if perlDreamer snores Perl too		19:20
dreamersgirl	hmmm. that's a good question.	19:20
+bartjol	no, but there are links to the i18n server to the tag	19:21
xdanger	perlDreamer: there should be a table before the debug stuff	19:21
+perlDreamer	there's a table, but it's empty	19:21
+bartjol	ah, sure it is no english setting?	19:22
+bartjol	put ?op=setLanguage;language=Dutch after the url	19:22
+perlDreamer	but I see i18n login/password...	19:22
+bartjol	ok, so german there	19:23
dreamersgirl	Sprichst Du Deutsch?	19:23
+perlDreamer	adding the ?op snippet gives me a Proxy Error	19:23
+bartjol	thrown away the scratch language variable, still works	19:24
+perlDreamer	it's a proxy error because there's no Spanish translation installed	19:24
+perlDreamer	but Dutch is	19:24
+bartjol	perldreamer, you're not using lynx, right?	19:24
xdanger	haha 19:22:35 up 274 days, 1:34, 3 users, load average: 4.03, 1.89, 0.78	19:24
xdanger	I just restarted the apache	19:24
+bartjol	it felt sluggish	19:24
xdanger	I tried to open the webgui.log in nano =)	19:24
xdanger	1.3G /data/wre/var/logs/webgui.log	19:25
+bartjol	eeeh	19:25
+perlDreamer	time to rotate the log	19:25
xdanger	there goes the memory	19:25
+bartjol	logrotating? I rather see it all in 1 file :)	19:25
xdanger	this is a test server that has nothing running =) old p4	19:25
+perlDreamer	xdanger, this shouldn't be in debug, it should be some kind of content handler	19:26
+perlDreamer	that wraps the page	19:26
+perlDreamer	and users should be able to turn it on	19:26
+perlDreamer	this would be a perfect example of Plack middleware	19:26
xdanger	perlDreamer: I know, this was just a quikc hack	19:26
+perlDreamer	this is great!	19:26
+perlDreamer	finally, a way to get the list of labels right in front of users	19:26
xdanger	I was bored waiting for cpan to build webgui8 depencies	19:26
dreamersgirl	bored programmers are a dangerous thing	19:27
xdanger	Few years ago I saw this company that build a wiki style translation to their web software... You toggled the translation mode on, and then you could (via ajax magic) edit the string inline =)	19:28
@scrottie	crap, PPW conflicts. can't go.	19:29
+bartjol	on a shared hosting facility that might be fun :)	19:29
xdanger	http://webgui.pastebin.com/GvDFY4Gy	19:30
+perlDreamer	xdanger we could do something ajaxy like that, but it wouldn't update the local translation	19:30
xdanger	18:58 < xdanger> I was thinking about deploying my own translation server that links to the running webguis translations and loads the changes via Apache2::Reload	19:30
+perlDreamer	that would work, but then how do we distribute it to other users?	19:31
xdanger	I just did this for one of my clients, and my self.. so that I could translate the most needed strings first	19:31
+perlDreamer	also, you could modify the translation in shared memory	19:31
+perlDreamer	and then serialize to disk. That would skip the reloading altogether	19:31
xdanger	I'm just hacking, haven't planned that long =)	19:32
+perlDreamer	sorry, I'm just really excited about this :)	19:32
xdanger	I don't think this would be a feature for the core	19:33
+perlDreamer	I would love to have some full translations in obscure languages, like French, Polish and Australian	19:33
xdanger	the reloading thing	19:33
dreamersgirl	Australian?	19:33
+bartjol	but, I'm getting hungry, sorry guys	19:33
xdanger	but link to i18n.webgui.org would be good	19:33
dreamersgirl	happy eating, bartjol!	19:33
+bartjol	yeah, patspam made an Australian translation	19:33
+bartjol	merci	19:33
+bartjol	excuse my french :)	19:34
+perlDreamer	no sweat, mate!	19:34
xdanger	I'm getting little drunk, so sory for the typos =)	19:34
dreamersgirl	i guess the Australian's don't know about important things like skunks and tator tots....	19:34
@scrottie	xdanger, whatcha drinkin'?	19:35
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xdanger	French sider Ecusson bretagne brut	19:36
+perlDreamer	sounds swanky	19:36
@scrottie	sounds celebrational	19:37
xdanger	It's cheap =)	19:37
xdanger	well cheap on Finnish standards	19:38
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xdanger	Everything that has alcohol is expensive here	19:38
@scrottie	sometimes I think how long I could stay drunk on the money in the bank, buying $3 40s from across the street.	19:40
@scrottie	it would be a long time.	19:40
dreamersgirl	but scrottie, why would you want to?	19:41
@scrottie	I would do that if life became unbearable. I'm not the suicide type.	19:42
dreamersgirl	ok. glad to hear it. hopefully life continues to be quite bearable! :)	19:42
@scrottie	haha, thank you =)	19:42
@scrottie	though you'd think they'd make alcohol inexpensive in Finland considering the winters there and the resulting suicides.	19:43
xdanger	It's strange... there's much alcohol related problems in Finland, but the booze is expensive	19:45
xdanger	Maybe I'll try booting to my own macbook now... Just got it back from apple repair	19:50
@scrottie	someone was telling me about the "bear beer" in Denmark... government subsidized malt alcohol, so the poor could afford to get drunk too.	19:50
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+perlDreamer	welcome back, SquOnk	20:15
+perlDreamer	and fokat	20:15
SquOnk	perlDreamer: :-)	20:16
+perlDreamer	did you catch xdanger's awesome i18n translation interface?	20:16
fokat	perlDreamer, thanks!	20:22
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+perlDreamer	bbiab	20:32
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rd189894 / (5 files in 5 dirs): More cleanup from dispatch. Do not set the session asset if the requested URL does not exist. In RssFeed, pass the fragment to the next method. Fixes bug #11854. - http://bit.ly/chvivh	21:14
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r587ff39 / (5 files in 5 dirs): More cleanup from dispatch. Do not set the session asset if the requested URL does not exist. In RssFeed, pass the fragment to the next method. Fixes bug #11854. - http://bit.ly/aPskJF	21:14
+perlDreamer	Oh! Devel::Cover fixed one of my most hated coverage bugs!	21:18
+perlDreamer	"Correctly report on C<my $x = $y \|\| return> and other shortcuts"	21:19
@preaction	yay!	21:19
+perlDreamer	did you see my earlier note about VMware, preaction?	21:19
+perlDreamer	I would love to spend the rest of today either stitching up stuffed snakes, or updating the VMware image	21:19
@preaction	yes, but i can't help at all. drip is at the office, and afaik is non-operational right now	21:20
+perlDreamer	uh-oh	21:20
SDuensin	Stitching up stuffed snakes?	21:20
@preaction	just have to hook it all together	21:20
SDuensin	Whaaaaaa? The docs are going up on the wiki now?	21:24
+perlDreamer	yawp	21:25
SDuensin	Freaky. And cool.	21:25
+perlDreamer	now they can be community maintained	21:27
SDuensin	WHOOOOOOOOOOO!	21:29
SDuensin	Output from my Wobject!	21:29
@scrottie	I just had an hour long conversation about version tags.	21:45
@scrottie	on one hand, I want to use this knowledge before it fades. on the other hand, I want to do tequilla shots and delete it from my mind.	21:46
SDuensin	lol	21:47
SDuensin	This sucks. Code doesn't work, nothing in the logs to help.	22:01
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SDuensin	Oh oh. :-)	22:02
@rizen	run for your lives!!!	22:02
@rizen	it's me!	22:02
SDuensin	Hey man, long time no see.	22:03
@rizen	indeed	22:04
@rizen	how ya been?	22:04
@rizen	you missed a stunning wuc	22:05
SDuensin	Not terrible. :-) Still hanging on out here.	22:05
+perlDreamer	SDuensin is writing his first Wobject today	22:05
SDuensin	I know. :-(	22:05
SDuensin	Well, not the first.	22:05
SDuensin	But the first in over a year.	22:05
@rizen	for webgui 8? or 7?	22:05
SDuensin	Sadly, 7.	22:05
SDuensin	The writing isn't the hard part. It's the debugging.	22:05
@rizen	i wish that preaction and perlDreamer would hurry up and get 8 out the door. it's soo much cooler than 7. =)	22:06
SDuensin	I know I saw in this crazy book the "right" way to write to a log file. Not finding that now. :-/	22:06
+perlDreamer	:D	22:06
+perlDreamer	SDuensin: $session->log->warn("some string")	22:06
+perlDreamer	and then make sure that log.conf is set to WARN	22:06
SDuensin	See? That's easy. ;-)	22:06
* perlDreamer is off for lunch		22:09
SDuensin	Later!	22:09
SDuensin	With luck, I'll figure out where my output went.	22:09
@scrottie	grep output /dev/mem /dev/hd0 # has to be around here somewhere...	22:29
SDuensin	lol	22:29
SDuensin	I love when you follow the docs and it doesn't work.	22:32
@scrottie	Godel's Incomplete Theorem applies.	22:37
@scrottie	no system can be complete unto itself when taken in context of a larger surrounding system.	22:37
@scrottie	the only way WebGUI docs could be complete and completely accurate is if they were the only thing in the universe.	22:38
plainhao	they aren't?	22:38
@scrottie	still have to destroy a few more things first, then they will be ;)	22:38
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SDuensin	Yes! Amazing! "no meetings were found on this server"	22:41
SDuensin	Many Bothans died to bring us that message.	22:42
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ckotil	ouch. Krist's emails are getting marked as spamm by a couple spamAssassin rules.	22:51
ckotil	1.5 MIME_HTML_ONLY BODY: Message only has text/html MIME parts * 1.9 INVALID_MSGID Message-Id is not valid, according to RFC 2822	22:51
SDuensin	Weird. I got one and run SA.	22:52
SDuensin	Guess I'm not as strict.	22:52
ckotil	take a look at the raw headers. SA should have at least tagged the message with those rules.	22:52
ckotil	my SA is fairly plain jane-default.	22:52
ckotil	i lowered my spam score in procmail is all.	22:52
SDuensin	Hmm... I had headers for everything but SA. :-)	22:54
ckotil	none of her older messages got marked as spam by SA. just this latest one.	22:55
SDuensin	Ok gang, be back later. Time to get the kid.	22:57
@frodwith	preaction: re: MooseX::Declare. You can turn off the param validation by just using plain-old 'sub' instead of method. And even with params validation on, 1000x slower is still in microsecond land, I think.	23:44
@frodwith	I floated "but aren't MXD method calls slower" in #plack earlier and got a dirty look from mst	23:45
@rizen	mst gives you a dirty look for just being in the same room as him	23:46
@rizen	he'll also declare you his enemy if you disagree with him about anything	23:47
@frodwith	He's a little cranky.	23:47
@rizen	super smart dude, but also very cranky	23:47
@frodwith	pot, meet kettle	23:47
@frodwith	;)	23:47
@rizen	not quite	23:47
@rizen	i'm not as smart	23:47
@rizen	and don't think i'm quite as cranky	23:48
@rizen	i could be wrong on that last part	23:48
@rizen	=)	23:48
* perlDreamer looks shiftily at rizen		23:48
+perlDreamer	but only because mst isn't here to do it	23:48
@frodwith	I've never met mst in person	23:48
@rizen	didn't you go to yapc?	23:48
@frodwith	It's funny how people come across differently in text after you've met them	23:49
@frodwith	I wanted to, but had family reunion at the same time >_<	23:49
@rizen	that's because people infer emotion from text, and text is emotionless	23:49
@frodwith	Right. Whereas after I've spoken to someone in person, I can imagine them saying what they've typed	23:50
@rizen	marc andreessen (of netscape fame), included a smily face in the subject of all his emails because nobody got his weird sense of humor and so thought he was always angry	23:51
+perlDreamer	yay! TODO list empty	23:53
@frodwith	!!	23:53
+perlDreamer	Terry Brooks was awesome on Wednesday, frodwith	23:54
@frodwith	I can't remember the last time that happened to me. Except maybe for sufficiently local values of TODO list	23:54
@frodwith	Arrrggha, I completely forgot!	23:54
+perlDreamer	he's moving to Portland, too	23:54
@frodwith	I think I may be moving back to WI actually :-\|	23:54
+perlDreamer	what?	23:55
+perlDreamer	There's a lot to be said for facetime	23:55
@frodwith	combination of things, none of which involves PB being in madison	23:55
@frodwith	the non-WUC related stuff I did on this last trip made me really miss several old friends (who had moved away, but are now back), amongst other things	23:56
@frodwith	and some of the reasons I moved back to WA are moot now	23:57
@frodwith	We'll see how it goes though. Kind of in the planning stages.	23:58
--- Day changed Sat Sep 11 2010
+perlDreamer	woohoo! Infinite loopage	00:04
+perlDreamer	Make a shortcut of an asset	00:04
+perlDreamer	then cut the original asset, and paste it below the shortcut as a child	00:05
+perlDreamer	then put the asset in the trash	00:05
+perlDreamer	and try to purge it	00:05
+perlDreamer	makes sense	00:06
+perlDreamer	since the Asset cleans up its children first	00:07
+perlDreamer	and since the child has a shortcut, you loop forever	00:07
+perlDreamer	and then it consumes all the CPU available, and then I get paged in the middle of the NIGHT EVERY WEEK FOR 8 MONTHS!	00:07
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@scrottie	there are type checkers for perl that run at compile time rather than run time. since the code doesn't change after development, it's safe to turn it off when you deploy the code.	01:51
@scrottie	imagine how slow Java would be if it did all type checking at run time.	01:51
@scrottie	not to mention that that delays finding problems.	01:51
@scrottie	remember kids, Ruby 1.9 is as fast as Perl now.	01:52
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elnino	Hi. I'm looking athte db schema, and tyring to figure out what "storageId" gives me and what table it ties to?	19:24
elnino	specifically, at the post table, it can have more than one attachment, but it only has one storage id?	19:27
elnino	I don't get it.	19:27
elnino	never mind. I'm going a different route.	19:54
elnino	still don't understand it though.	19:54
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elnino	can anyone help me? I'm stuck wiht perl.	20:49
elnino	first question, how do I enclode < and> so I don't get html entieis? > and <?	20:51
elnino	actually, I dont' want to encode them. I just want < and >	20:52
elnino	literally.	20:52
@preaction	What are you trying to do? maybe something else down the line is encoding them erroneously for you?	20:55
elnino	I'm trying to encode html in my rss feed. =)	20:56
elnino	s/encode/allow	20:56
elnino	in /asset/wobject/collaboration.pm	20:56
elnino	ther eis a descripton entity	20:57
elnino	I'm adding <content:encoded> hold on.	20:57
@preaction	it should be escaped, iirc. otherwise it should be in a <![CDATA block	20:57
elnino	yep, <content:encoded> and it has to have "<![CDATA[" and "]]>" surrounding the html	20:57
@preaction	CDATA being the preferred method. if we aren't using CDATA, we should be	20:57
elnino	but th < and the > are being chagned to < and >	20:58
elnino	this is the line I have: 'content:encoded' => "<![CDATA[".$post->get('content')."]]>",	20:58
elnino	s/have/added	20:58
@preaction	oh, because the filter on the CS is encoding it probably?	20:59
elnino	umm. I dunno. letme look.	20:59
@preaction	try using $session->log->warn( $post->get('content') ); and see if the content is escaped there	20:59
elnino	well, the < in the "<![CDATA[" is being changed.....	21:01
@preaction	okay, so pastebin the entire sub you're doing. i assume it's getRssData or what-have-you?	21:01
elnino	and yes, the stuff in "content" is too.	21:02
elnino	Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm	21:02
elnino	getRssFeedItems yes	21:02
elnino	http://pastebin.com/P3AkFuy9	21:04
elnino	content:encoded is the only line I added.	21:04
elnino	and I changed attachment_loop to enclosure.	21:05
@preaction	it must be XML::FeedPP doing it	21:06
elnino	I can't imagine why? you'd think that was a bug that would be quickly fixed...	21:06
@preaction	let me look at that code quick	21:07
elnino	oh it's yours? lol	21:07
@preaction	well, there's two ways to send HTML out in RSS, one is the way it's doing it, encoded, which is the wrong way	21:07
elnino	I thought it was a public mod.	21:07
@preaction	no, it's not	21:07
@preaction	the second way is CDATA, which is the right way	21:07
@preaction	it is a public module	21:07
elnino	I AM still running 7.7x	21:07
elnino	maybe I should upgrade that mod	21:07
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@preaction	wow, just looked in that code and it's fucking retarded. rolled his own XML escaping instead of using HTML::Entities	21:11
@preaction	but i figured out how. give me a minute	21:11
@preaction	elnino: you need to pass it as a scalarref instead. so: 'content:encoded' => \("<![CDATA[" . $post->get('content') . "]]>" ),	21:13
elnino	oh oh ok. will do and get back toyou.	21:14
@preaction	oh, and adding CDATA yourself looks to be optional (and may break things)	21:14
@preaction	it looks like this code adds CDATA block for you, just need to give it the text as a scalar reference	21:14
elnino	yes, it adds CDATA.	21:18
elnino	Yes it looks like ti works.	21:18
elnino	but there is somethign in my HTML it doesn't like, so the feed is blank, even though the XML looks right.... still looking.	21:18
@preaction	this whole behavior is undocumented, so ymmv	21:19
elnino	that's not encouraging. =)	21:19
@preaction	sorry?	21:20
elnino	there were other entities in the html. And if my memory serves me correctly, I have to define entities somewhere in a dtd or something.	21:21
elnino	oh lordy.	21:23
@preaction	not really, the scalarref to cdata thing doesn't escape anything	21:24
@preaction	if the entities are already there, they're fine. CDATA is a block escape	21:24
@preaction	that being said, use the W3's feed validator	21:24
elnino	no, she put some weird enties in the content.	21:25
elnino	Ill take a look at the validator.. Now i get to take the kids to the farm!	21:26
elnino	Thanks much! I'll figure it out and post something somewhere on webgui.org.	21:26
@preaction	a patch to the RFE you made would probably work out just fine	21:26
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elnino	preaction? you awake?	04:33
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@khenn	is it just me or does it seem like Oracle has their hooks into everything these days	08:08
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patspam	Haarg: do we have a wgd plugin to purge old revisions for an asset yet?	21:10
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zylopfa	Greetings Webguians	22:05
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Haarg	patspam, reset will do that for every asset in the system. there isn't anything that will work per-asset though.	23:40
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7a3ec47 / t/Content/Asset.t : Test that the RSS Aspect propagates the URL fragment. - http://bit.ly/azLcyJ	08:40
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r2b079af / t/Content/Asset.t : Test that the RSS Aspect propagates the URL fragment. - http://bit.ly/bXCxRB	08:40
+Radix_	This almost looks like a clone of WebGUI - http://www.day.com/day/en/products/web_content_management.html	08:53
CIA-21	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r7b9299b / dist.ini : not autopublishing anything yet and letting pod issues wait - http://bit.ly/9ayBo8	09:02
CIA-21	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r3954cc1 / Changes : updating Changes for v0.1009070 - http://bit.ly/dwlQLN	09:02
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rad461d5 / lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_StoryTopic.pm : Fix a typo in the StoryTopic help. - http://bit.ly/cqo5Rc	09:12
CIA-21	wgdev: Graham Knop gh-pages * r114ba2b / index.html : uglier but more useful homepage - http://bit.ly/bQZLqP	09:20
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CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r6fa0767 / (7 files in 6 dirs): use HTTP::BrowserDetect for browser detection - http://bit.ly/aJG43d	10:11
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop yui-hack * r6fa0767 / (7 files in 6 dirs): use HTTP::BrowserDetect for browser detection - http://bit.ly/a9q3oB	10:13
CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop yui-hack * re255796 / (1148 files in 169 dirs): hack to remove yui from core - http://bit.ly/aiEU7A	10:13
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CIA-21	webgui: Graham Knop imager * rbc80447 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image.pm lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm): convert remainder of Storage to Imager (+972 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/axDHjn	10:35
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:31
+bartjol	hello sailor	16:35
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SDuensin	I'd like to be sailing about now.	16:53
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+perlDreamer	Good morning, WebGUI-folk!	17:40
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SDuensin	Hey perlDreamer	17:44
+perlDreamer	how's the Wobject, SDuensin?	17:46
SDuensin	Uh. Just sitting here. Trying to get back to it today.	17:48
Haarg	perlDreamer, I've gotten about a third of the translation server done.	17:53
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf176236 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix line ending processing by the Thingy. It will now accept CSV files with any line endings. Fixes bug #11746. - http://bit.ly/a6eZn0	17:53
+perlDreamer	awesome, Haarg	17:53
+perlDreamer	did you see xdanger's inline translation thing from Friday?	17:53
Haarg	re: branch per language, the download caching thing i mentioned ended up not really being a concern at all	17:54
Haarg	no	17:54
+perlDreamer	in debug mode, it shows you every i18n tag in the page, along with a link to translate it	17:54
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r2643e3a / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix line ending processing by the Thingy. It will now accept CSV files with any line endings. Fixes bug #11746. - http://bit.ly/9S3ZB5	17:55
Haarg	because each directory has a unique hash identifying its content	17:55
Haarg	but i remembered the real reason i wanted a branch per language	17:55
Haarg	it would let us offload downloads entirely to github	17:56
+perlDreamer	that'd be handy	17:56
+perlDreamer	and less code	17:56
+perlDreamer	and less cleanup	17:56
Haarg	that translation thing sounds cool. might be good as a plack debug panel.	17:57
+perlDreamer	yeah, that's what I was thinking for 8	17:57
Haarg	the code and cleanup is pretty simple	17:57
Haarg	like 10 lines	17:57
Haarg	and already done	17:57
Haarg	but it would still be nice as a different download location	17:58
+perlDreamer	yeah, it doesn't hurt anything	17:58
Haarg	i'm still going to proceed with theone branch model because making everything work without a working copy would take a long time	17:59
SDuensin	Debugging this sucks. I really need to figure out a nice workflow for my dev'ing.	18:01
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, how about tests?	18:01
+perlDreamer	Or Selenium?	18:01
SDuensin	I just want a line where the compilation failed.	18:01
SDuensin	And it's really hard to do test-driven stuff when you don't know WTF you're doing in the first place.	18:02
+bartjol	the example of the i18n is here	18:02
+bartjol	http://test.mentalhouse.fi/home	18:02
+bartjol	and the code diff is here http://webgui.pastebin.com/GvDFY4Gy	18:03
SDuensin	WTH? I've got a serious blind spot for semicolons.	18:05
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+bartjol	not blind, just polarized	18:07
SDuensin	What's the recommended way to handle error reporting in a Wobject? Use a tmpl_if in the main view template or what?	18:12
ryuu_ro	SDuensin: what kind of error reporting do you mean? For user feedback?	18:14
SDuensin	My Wobject connects to another server to fetch a list of conferences that are running. If I can't get there, I need to tell them to try again later or something.	18:14
ryuu_ro	If it's only one message I would probably use a tmpl_if in the main view	18:16
SDuensin	Well, there could be a number of reasons for failure, but to the user, it all results in "come back later".	18:17
ryuu_ro	yes, in that case I would use the tmpl_if in the main view	18:18
ryuu_ro	if it we're a number of message I created a new www_ method for it	18:19
SDuensin	We're going for "easy" here.	18:21
ryuu_ro	easy suits me perfectly fine at the moment :D	18:21
+perlDreamer	you can use the tmpl_if even for an array of errors	18:21
SDuensin	Me too. It'd be a lot easier if I wasn't trying to do a dozen things.	18:22
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SDuensin	I'm learning my Perl has gotten quite bad with lack of use.	18:44
SDuensin	How can I turn part of a hash tree created by XML::TreePP into an array? Or can I iterate over it as-is?	18:45
+perlDreamer	you can iterate over a hash using keys	18:46
+perlDreamer	or each	18:46
+perlDreamer	perldoc perldata	18:46
SDuensin	Attempting comprehension. :-)	18:47
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3c15058 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Guarantee that old revisions of Products have unique storage locations. Fixes bug #11833. - http://bit.ly/afHdpN	19:12
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rfcbb9c7 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Guarantee that old revisions of Products have unique storage locations. Fixes bug #11833. - http://bit.ly/cbEuQs	19:13
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+bartjol	btw is spectre supposed to work in wg8? it gives a connection error, so ir looks like bad settings, but better to check before I spend hours on it	19:35
+perlDreamer	no clue, bartjol	19:38
+bartjol	ah, the Spectre/Admin.pm apparently can't find readAllConfigs	19:38
+bartjol	strange it seems to be there	19:39
+perlDreamer	is WebGUI::Paths in your path?	19:40
+bartjol	maybe not	19:40
+bartjol	but WebGUI::Config wasn't	19:40
+bartjol	which is prolly good in 8	19:41
+bartjol	but spectre isn't rewritten to use WebGUI::Paths	19:41
+perlDreamer	no, but WebGUI::Config was	19:41
+perlDreamer	so Spectre needs it, too	19:41
+bartjol	so I just added it	19:42
+bartjol	in the Admin script	19:42
+perlDreamer	huh?	19:42
+bartjol	to use WebGUI::Config	19:42
+bartjol	as it calls a method from there	19:42
+perlDreamer	oh, yes!	19:43
+bartjol	and spectre is up and running	19:44
+bartjol	but spectre needs WebGUI::Config, maybe a nice addition	19:45
+perlDreamer	can you commit that change?	19:45
+bartjol	I don't have commit rights	19:46
+bartjol	but I can send you a diff file ;)	19:46
+bartjol	+ use WebGUI::Config;	19:46
+bartjol	oh you need a line number	19:47
Haarg	you can fork on github and commit to your own repo, then send a pull request	19:47
+bartjol	ok, I'll fiddle around with git again	19:48
+perlDreamer	bartjol, we can help you set it up	19:52
+perlDreamer	there's a great page on the wiki that Haarg set up	19:53
+bartjol	ah, with that I should be able to figure it out	19:54
+bartjol	but I can find that page	19:54
+perlDreamer	me either!	19:56
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/develop/wiki/git	19:56
+bartjol	I did find it, no thanks to the search	19:56
+bartjol	I don't want to bash the wiki, but searching for git, getting no results, and then find a page called git does seem...... peculiar?	19:57
+perlDreamer	it does	19:58
+perlDreamer	could be due to the mysql text search	19:58
+bartjol	I saw the capital G but that doesn't make a difference	19:58
+perlDreamer	try searching for asset	20:00
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+perlDreamer	it's a bug	20:00
+perlDreamer	we'll assign it to scrottie to work on	20:00
+perlDreamer	he's now an expert in the API and version control	20:01
+bartjol	eeeh, that should deliver more than SQL Cookbook	20:01
+perlDreamer	yes, definitely	20:01
* scrottie0 reads scroll		20:04
+perlDreamer	reading the scroll won't help you scrottie, you also have to have a small bag of bat guano and know the mystic dance moves	20:05
scrottie0	heh	20:11
scrottie0	noone likes a search that doesn't work.	20:14
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* perlDreamer hates date programming		20:33
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1d99ee4 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Allow users to enter 24:00:00 by hand, and have the Event handle it correctly. Fixes bug #11788 - http://bit.ly/99ULHv	21:08
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rd47f1b9 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Allow users to enter 24:00:00 by hand, and have the Event handle it correctly. Fixes bug #11788 - http://bit.ly/9WL84E	21:08
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r5be6c15 / lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_StoryTopic.pm : Fix a typo in the StoryTopic help. - http://bit.ly/aWugYq	21:08
SDuensin	Perl is angering me greatly.	21:23
plainhao	what has perl ever done to you?	21:24
SDuensin	Got me my current terrible job, for one.	21:24
plainhao	the only terrible job is one that doesn't pay :)	21:26
+perlDreamer	oh no, there are worse	21:26
SDuensin	Oh yes there are.	21:26
plainhao	surely it beats cleaning toilets?	21:27
SDuensin	At this point, I'm not so sure.	21:27
@scrottie	Perl is only mean to people it doesn't know. And it has multiple personality disorder, so most of the time it doesn't know you even when it does.	21:29
SDuensin	Now I feel like the dog that chases the car. I caught it and now have no idea what to do.	21:31
plainhao	start chasing another car?	21:31
plainhao	the problem i have with perl is that i keep coming back to it	21:32
plainhao	i used to have the same problem with c, before i got comfortable with perl	21:32
+perlDreamer	"Like a dog returns to its vomit, so does a fool return to his folly"	21:33
plainhao	is this perl in general or just perl 5?	21:33
SDuensin	Um. Yea.	21:33
SDuensin	Perl 6 is a myth.	21:34
plainhao	heh	21:34
@scrottie	Commodore is going to come out with a new Amiga and the launch title will be Duke Nuken' Forever written in Perl 6.	21:40
+perlDreamer	using SDL, of course	21:40
SDuensin	I saw that!	21:40
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SDuensin	Can the templating language handle arrays? Like: tmpl_var something.with[1].more?	22:21
@scrottie	generally, you loop over things.	22:25
Haarg	a loop is the only way to access items in an array with HTML::Template	22:31
SDuensin	So I could tmpl_loop something.with and inside that tmpl_var more ?	22:36
Haarg	kind of	22:36
Haarg	what is something.with ?	22:37
SDuensin	Basically, I have a loop of meetings. However, each meeting has multiple attendees inside it.	22:37
SDuensin	So I made meeting_loop, but in there are attendees. Like: meeting_loop.attendees.attendee	22:38
SDuensin	Under attendee are things like fullName, role, etc.	22:38
Haarg	with HTML::Template, your structures have to be hash > array > hash > array > hash > array > hash	22:38
SDuensin	I may be able to manage that. TreePP has a force_array setting.	22:40
SDuensin	Was hoping to not have to re-combobulate the data.	22:42
SDuensin	Here's a single element of the meeting_loop array... http://jaeger.pastebin.com/0PvcE4Qt	22:44
SDuensin	I don't have to be able to display attendees from this, but it'd be nice.	22:45
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@scrottie	you'll probably have to do some transformation on it when moving it from XML to the template.	22:53
@scrottie	but maybe you should just serve the XML with a style sheet.	22:53
SDuensin	Uh, no.	22:55
SDuensin	Anyway, gotta go get my kiddo from school. Be back!	22:56
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--- Day changed Tue Sep 14 2010
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+perlDreamer	there are no tests for paste!	00:12
+perlDreamer	yargh	00:12
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CIA-21	webgui: Scott Walters webflow_bp * rcab4c6a / lib/WebGUI/Inbox.pm :	00:53
CIA-21	webgui: Reworked active messages SQL. Fixes #11594. Don't try to relate	00:53
CIA-21	webgui: to groups that the user may not be a part of any longer. (+182 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/dviJtX	00:53
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SquOnk	Greetings.	01:00
+perlDreamer	howdy, SquOnk	01:00
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Hey there.	01:00
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r927b986 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Forbid pasting content below a shortcut, to prevent loops on purge and other operations. Fixes bug #11855. - http://bit.ly/ah7cq3	04:48
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r547d3c6 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Forbid pasting content below a shortcut, to prevent loops on purge and other operations. Fixes bug #11855. - http://bit.ly/cylZyU	04:48
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+perlDreamer	hey, elnino!	05:02
elnino	howdy	05:02
elnino	warning: Im a slow typer tonight	05:02
+perlDreamer	bad fingers?	05:02
elnino	holding baby with bottle	05:03
+perlDreamer	ah	05:03
+perlDreamer	I've been looking at this: http://codemirror.net/	05:03
elnino	as soon as he's done I got QUESTIONS. so dont all run away.	05:04
elnino	wow. cool.	05:04
+perlDreamer	yeah	05:04
elnino	that could change how things are done, huh?	05:05
+perlDreamer	well, it might finally be a stable, supported code editor	05:06
elnino	ok. I have both hands now!	05:33
elnino	I was looking at the code that generates the rss feed. I forget which file it is at the moment, but I after reading http://search.cpan.org/~kawasaki/XML-FeedPP-0.41/lib/XML/FeedPP.pm I understand how it creates new items. and puts new elements in.	05:34
+perlDreamer	okay	05:35
elnino	but what I don't understand is how I can add attributes to those elements.	05:35
+perlDreamer	like give me an example, what do you want to generate?	05:35
elnino	he he.. I want to create the enclosure tag.	05:37
elnino	it needs the attributes of url thumbnail and others that I can't remember, still trying to get all my notes again.	05:37
+perlDreamer	ah, ok	05:37
elnino	yep, url, length, and type. And it's there already but you guys have it as attachment.url, attachment_length, or somethign or other in a parent tag called attachment.loop which is not understandable in rss language.	05:43
elnino	s/its/the information is	05:45
elnino	so.. I need to modify your code output <enclosure url= length= type=/> instead of <attachmentloop><attachmenturl/><attchmentlength/> etc.</attachmentloop>	05:46
elnino	in /asset/wobject/collaboration.pm	05:46
elnino	getRssFeedItems	05:47
+perlDreamer	In the ACCESSOR and MUTATORS section, it shows how to build other RSS item "objects" like enclosure	05:58
+perlDreamer	so, inside AssetAspect, you'll need to delete the attachment loop variable for each item	06:00
+perlDreamer	and then build the right custom RSS code	06:00
+perlDreamer	does that make sense, elnino?	06:00
elnino	ah. I didn't read far enough.	06:00
elnino	their description though makes it sound like they only	06:01
elnino	support the namespaces dc: and	06:01
elnino	rdf	06:01
elnino	:	06:01
+perlDreamer	yees	06:01
elnino	bu then they say "But set() and get() methods are available to get/set the value of any elements or attributes for these modules."	06:01
+perlDreamer	yes	06:01
elnino	so it should work for <enclosure>	06:01
elnino	and media:	06:01
elnino	if i choose to do that.	06:02
+perlDreamer	yes	06:02
elnino	ok. I'll try	06:02
* elnino getting excited that it may work!		06:02
+perlDreamer	so $item->set ("media:enclosure@attr" => $value)	06:02
+perlDreamer	or something like that	06:02
elnino	right. yeah! thanks perlDreamer.	06:02
+perlDreamer	you're welcome!	06:02
+perlDreamer	elnino, some good testing code would probably help a lot	06:03
+perlDreamer	so you can force the data that gets sent to RssFeed	06:03
+perlDreamer	rather than relying on lots of manual testing	06:03
elnino	ok.. I have the collaboration asset already. just trying to get the xml right for customer.	06:04
elnino	but from what I can read. rss feeds are a mess.	06:04
+perlDreamer	yeah	06:05
elnino	too many namespaces to choose from	06:05
elnino	too many readers	06:05
elnino	grr.	06:05
+perlDreamer	it's probably best to keep it simple then	06:05
elnino	She wants it to work like another site, so that's what I'm goign to do.. copy their xml structure.	06:05
elnino	so I don't know if it's something that can be used in the core, but i'll post it somewhere.	06:05
elnino	on webgui.org	06:06
elnino	define: simple.	06:06
elnino	oh! I have another question.	06:07
+perlDreamer	simple == without namespaces?	06:08
elnino	sounds good to me.. i'm using enclosure. I think preaction recommended media:	06:08
elnino	she HAD a https site on another server, now we moved everything to one server and its all http	06:08
elnino	so I think I need to modify a mod_perl conf file and "fake" the https	06:09
elnino	and redirect it to http	06:09
elnino	current all the https is commented out. I don't think I need it all, do I ?	06:09
elnino	do I still have to have a certificate just to redirect it back to http?	06:09
+perlDreamer	no idea	06:10
elnino	OH... back to my other question....	06:10
+perlDreamer	I know how to setup standard SSL,	06:10
+perlDreamer	but no trickery yet	06:10
elnino	I was going to just use RewriteCond	06:11
elnino	eh, I'll play with it.	06:11
elnino	so.. in assets/woject/collaboration.pm	06:11
+perlDreamer	yes	06:11
elnino	it's stuffing some array structure and passing it to assetaspect/rssfeeds.pm and then creating the items using FeedPP	06:12
+perlDreamer	yes	06:12
elnino	so I think I need to remove the attachment loop after I create the encloseur tag.	06:12
+perlDreamer	yes	06:12
elnino	ok.	06:12
+perlDreamer	first, check to see if there are attachments	06:12
elnino	Im glad the brain is working well tonight.	06:12
+perlDreamer	if so, then remove and then start adding $item->set, $item->set...	06:13
elnino	yep.	06:13
elnino	last question.	06:13
+perlDreamer	doesn't have to be last :)	06:13
elnino	where can I find the mimetype of the attachment?	06:13
elnino	is there a storage->somethingthat will give it to me?	06:13
+perlDreamer	Look inside Macro/FetchMimeType.pm	06:13
elnino	there should be a storage->getFileType =)	06:16
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elnino	oh oh. I forgot... so how do I call a macro from a module?	06:17
+perlDreamer	you don't, you use the same code	06:17
elnino	never mind.	06:17
+perlDreamer	;)	06:18
elnino	oh.	06:18
elnino	why can't I call the macro?	06:18
+perlDreamer	it would be wasteful	06:18
elnino	wasteful?	06:18
+perlDreamer	yeah, to go through the whole macro processor/executer thing	06:18
elnino	i'm thinking maintainance wise	06:18
+perlDreamer	instead of doing guess_types($filename)	06:19
elnino	change in one place.	06:19
elnino	oh. ok. you win.	06:19
* perlDreamer calls it a night		06:39
+perlDreamer	happy hacking elnino	06:39
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Trex___	Hey folks. I have a question about the blog/CS import script that I first posted to the dev list: http://www.webgui.org/forums/dev/import-script-for-collaboration-systems/5	18:12
Trex___	I just posted a reply with a copy of the latest version of my script -- which seems to work all except for a problem with version tags.	18:12
Trex___	Each post that is added gets its own version tag outside the main version tag that gets set (and properly committed) in the start and finish subroutines. I'd definitely like to not have to commit each post's version tag separately!	18:14
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Trex___	I thought I might pop in here and see if someone was online and could give the script a look...but seems pretty quiet at the moment.	18:16
Haarg	skipAutoCommitWorkflows should fix that issue but i see you are already specifying it	18:17
Haarg	oh	18:17
Haarg	your options hash is wrong	18:18
Haarg	my %options = { should be using (, not {	18:18
Trex___	Ahhh. Gotcha. I'm surprised that didn't cause bigger problems and bring things to a halt.	18:19
Trex___	Yes, that did it. Thanks, Haarg!	18:23
Trex___	I had hoped it would be something simple. :)	18:23
Trex___	Any recommendations for how to test for this sort of thing? perl -c on the previous version reports "syntax OK" and -w / -W report a flood of warnings from all the libraries included.	18:31
Trex___	-w does report the error: "Reference found where even-sized list expected at ./threadImport.pl line 93." but easy to overlook.	18:32
Haarg	you could add use warnings to your scripts, but then you have to take extra care with undef variables	18:39
Trex___	What sort of problems would undef variables cause when using warnings?	18:43
Trex___	I specify $revisionDate as undef because I want that parameter in addChild to be undef unless it is overridden by a date passed in via the import file.	18:44
Trex___	Would that cause problems?	18:44
Trex___	Have to take off. Thanks again, Haarg!	18:56
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Haarg	morning perlDreamer	18:57
+perlDreamer	hey, Haarg!	18:57
+perlDreamer	How's Madison?	18:57
Haarg	same as ever i guess	18:57
+perlDreamer	Do you have a primary election in Wisconsin today?	19:02
Haarg	yeah	19:03
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1fa03c3 / t/Storage/Image.t : Add an explicit test for getThumbnailUrl and non-image files (like a PDF) - http://bit.ly/djAORv	19:16
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * radf811d / t/Storage/Image.t : Add an explicit test for getThumbnailUrl and non-image files (like a PDF) - http://bit.ly/cROc70	19:23
Haarg	scrottie0, http://gist.github.com/579302	19:26
Haarg	that would have been my thought on how to make a tree output	19:26
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Haarg	probably doesn't make sense to use it at the same time as the other options but i left that in there anyway	19:28
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0534449 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Ignore trailing slashes in requested URLS. Fixes bug #11865. - http://bit.ly/bow6xa	20:02
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1131a5b / (3 files in 3 dirs): Ignore trailing slashes in requested URLS. Fixes bug #11865. - http://bit.ly/dxoZAX	20:02
scrottie0	Haarg, re: the tree view stuff, whatever makes you happy.	20:04
+perlDreamer	These things make Haarg happy: bicycle trails, Spotted Cow, perl code that doesn't suck	20:05
Haarg	hey, perl code that sucks can be fun too	20:06
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+perlDreamer	it can, unless you're on the hook for fixing it ;)	20:06
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SDuensin	Greetings at last!	20:30
+perlDreamer	yo, SD!	20:30
SDuensin	Finally online. Now I need a nap. :-D	20:31
+perlDreamer	it took you an awfully long time to get your kids yesterday	20:32
SDuensin	Yea. Not easy to get back online after I drag them home.	20:35
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2eed748 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Restore addAttachments and restoreAttachments to the 7.x series. In 8.x, the object property will act like an arrayref, so they won't be necessary. Fixes bug #11861. - http://bit.ly/a02fQM	20:44
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r9fc27df / (3 files in 3 dirs): Restore addAttachments and restoreAttachments to the 7.x series. In 8.x, the object property will act like an arrayref, so they won't be necessary. Fixes bug #11861. - http://bit.ly/aFlev1	20:45
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elnino	oh boy do I need help now...	20:54
+perlDreamer	whatcha need, elnino?	20:55
elnino	that xmlPP mod that I'm trying to use?	20:55
+perlDreamer	yes	20:55
elnino	from the code and from it's tests, I'm beginning to believe that it can not handle	20:55
elnino	anything more than one level below item.	20:55
elnino	so <item><this></this></item>	20:56
elnino	is fine,	20:56
elnino	but	20:56
elnino	<item><something><nothis></nothis></something></item>	20:56
elnino	but it can't read the <nothis> tag	20:56
elnino	that is bad.	20:56
+perlDreamer	can't read, or write?	20:57
elnino	s/from/from LOOKING at	20:57
elnino	correct	20:57
elnino	none of his tests test second tier info.	20:57
elnino	and I couldn't for the LIFE of me	20:57
+perlDreamer	can you paste some XML::PP code that tries to do this?	20:57
elnino	get access to the attachment.url and attachment.* stuff	20:57
* elnino just got here and is slow hold on.		20:58
elnino	hmm. do you want to see what I have? I'm modifying RssFeed.pm	20:59
+perlDreamer	yeah	21:00
+perlDreamer	actually, how about if we create a test case?	21:00
elnino	huh? I have a site that has the CS with the data... that's what I'm working with now...	21:01
elnino	test like in test.t?	21:01
+perlDreamer	sure, something that we can send to the author	21:01
+perlDreamer	and ask him if this is a bug, or a feature	21:01
elnino	ok.. just a sec.	21:01
elnino	I just looked at this, but there is nothing testing two level from what I can tell, I can modify these two files and give them to(?)	21:02
elnino	http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/KAWASAKI/XML-FeedPP-0.41/t/09_setget.t	21:02
elnino	http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/KAWASAKI/XML-FeedPP-0.41/t/36_get_multiple.t	21:02
elnino	do you know the person?	21:02
+perlDreamer	no	21:03
elnino	ok.	21:03
elnino	so .	21:03
elnino	how do I run these?	21:03
elnino	I'll modify them and run them, then send them to him.	21:03
+perlDreamer	at the top of the package directory, type make test	21:04
+perlDreamer	so, download, unpack	21:04
+perlDreamer	build	21:04
+perlDreamer	make test	21:04
elnino	sorry for being clueless, but, I have it installed via cpan... do I redown load it?	21:05
+perlDreamer	for doing this, yes	21:06
+perlDreamer	from what I'm seeing, new releases come out every few months	21:07
+perlDreamer	and, if he's like most authors, if we send him a patch along with good tests, he may accept it right away	21:07
elnino	ok. ill look at this tonight, got some errands to do now...I'll be back.	21:11
+perlDreamer	l8r	21:11
elnino	the other alternative I see is to some how create the syructur needed in getRssFeedItem in the Coolboration.pm	21:12
elnino	but my little brian couldnt get around that	21:13
elnino	s/brian/brain	21:13
+perlDreamer	hm	21:13
elnino	s/syructur/structure	21:13
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@scrottie	grr.	21:13
+perlDreamer	what kind of structure do you think it wants?	21:13
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elnino	well I can create any elements and subelements - like you did with arttachmentloop, but not elements with attributes. which is what is needed. and even wg does the attributes in RssFeed.pm and avoids doing it in the collaboration.pm	21:16
+perlDreamer	collaboration.pm can't do it	21:16
+perlDreamer	since it doesn't have access to the XML::FeedPP object	21:16
+perlDreamer	it just returns a data structure	21:17
elnino	right	21:17
+perlDreamer	so, if you need a deep structure, putting it in CS.pm is the way to go	21:17
+perlDreamer	but if you need attributes, there's currently no way to do that	21:17
elnino	right. That's what I concluded too.	21:17
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elnino	which is how I found what I think is a bug.	21:18
elnino	ok. Now I'll go, I'll look at this tonight. Cause I have to have this supported.	21:18
+perlDreamer	So XML::FeedPP will build deep XML from data, but not from code?	21:18
elnino	correct	21:18
+perlDreamer	weird	21:18
elnino	yeah	21:18
elnino	it outputs the entire attachmentLoop	21:18
+perlDreamer	and, via data, there's no way to add attributes	21:19
+perlDreamer	deeply	21:19
elnino	correct.	21:19
elnino	but I can't read attachmentLoop or any of it's sub elements	21:19
elnino	I'll define some scenarios and document it better that doing this off my head.	21:19
+perlDreamer	yeah, and again, I recommend doing it in test code	21:20
elnino	don't spend brain cells on this unless you want too. =)	21:20
elnino	bye	21:20
+perlDreamer	I think it's a good core addition	21:20
* perlDreamer is off for lunch		21:33
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knowmad	hello folks	23:51
knowmad	perlDreamer: last week you thought that 7.9.14 would be getting released today; any updates on that?	23:51
@scrottie	hey hey hey knowmad.	23:54
knowmad	hello scrottie!	23:54
knowmad	How's the weather in Phoenix today?	23:55
@scrottie	it's been really nice. it's hard to be inside.	23:55
knowmad	yeah, we're having the same problem here ;)	23:57
knowmad	here = Charlotte	23:57
+perlDreamer	knowmad, it's still today	23:57
+perlDreamer	and will be until tomorrow	23:57
+perlDreamer	7.9.14 will be released around 9:00pm PDT	23:57
+perlDreamer	just like every week ;)	23:57
knowmad	yeah, but for me, it's nearly the end of the work-day	23:57
+perlDreamer	then for you it's tonight, or tomorrow	23:58
knowmad	Ahh, that works!	23:58
--- Day changed Wed Sep 15 2010
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+perlDreamer	this is crazy	00:44
+perlDreamer	VirtualBox will read the WebGUI VMWare images	00:44
+perlDreamer	I should have done this years ago!	00:44
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SDuensin	Why yes it will.	00:47
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, if I publish this image, are you willing to give it a trial for me?	00:48
+perlDreamer	you have VMWare?	00:48
SDuensin	Yep. Workstation 7.whatever.	00:49
+perlDreamer	awesome	00:49
+perlDreamer	if it's really this easy, I'll try and do an Ubuntu one too maybe	00:49
SDuensin	What was hard about it before?	00:49
+perlDreamer	uh, I don't have Vmware, and the server that we use for builds is down	00:50
SDuensin	VMware Player 3 and above allow creation of VMs now.	00:51
+perlDreamer	that'll run on Ubuntu?	00:51
SDuensin	Yep.	00:51
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+perlDreamer	hang in there, SDuensin, still building modules	01:39
SDuensin	NP. Still studying hackintoshes.	01:40
+perlDreamer	SDuensin: ping	01:46
SDuensin	pong	01:47
+perlDreamer	you have a copy of the current VM laying around?	01:47
SDuensin	Nope.	01:47
+perlDreamer	I need to know whether or not the default site on the VM is at the site starter, or whether it was fully configured	01:48
* SDuensin has no idea		01:49
* SDuensin also has company now. Back later!		01:49
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elnino_	umm. I'm stuck in linux.	06:54
elnino_	I did some weird keystroke, and I can no longer see my typing, can anyone help?	06:54
elnino_	I logged out and back in and it didn't clear it.	06:55
elnino_	=)	06:55
elnino_	and I can't sudo anymore	06:55
elnino_	I know. it's weird. So I type sudo su and it skips over the prompt for the password.	06:57
elnino_	I tryed su, and it promptd me for the password, but once I start typing it does a "return" and does invalid password.	06:57
elnino_	I think I messed up the keyboard somehow while root.	06:58
+perlDreamer	it's really typing, but there's no echo back of what you're typing?	06:59
elnino_	correct	06:59
elnino_	but it messes up some of the keys	06:59
elnino_	P = uparrow	06:59
+perlDreamer	sounds like an alternate key mapping	06:59
elnino_	I think so too, but I'm not quite sure how it happend. maybe my ctrl key got stuck?	07:00
+perlDreamer	not sure	07:01
elnino_	I didn't go anywhere I normally don't go.	07:01
+perlDreamer	if that was true, everything would have a control character	07:01
elnino_	woudl a hard rest do?	07:01
+perlDreamer	can you plug in an external keyboard?	07:01
elnino_	s/rest/reset	07:01
+perlDreamer	perhaps	07:01
elnino_	I'm using putty	07:01
elnino_	I think the host company has a virtual terminal. They did years ago.	07:02
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r63a1d84 / t/Macro/ConvertUTCToTZ.t : Fix a problem with newer DateTimes. - http://bit.ly/boABZ9	07:02
elnino_	but loging out of putty should have reset it, no? or is it tied to my username?	07:02
+perlDreamer	I don't know, elnino_	07:03
+perlDreamer	it could be a problem with putty itself	07:04
+perlDreamer	is it giving you problems elsewhere?	07:04
* elnino_ looks at putty settings.		07:05
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r05015d7 / lib/WebGUI/Group.pm : Remove Product Managers as a protected group. - http://bit.ly/9vPyBj	07:18
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb936464 / (143 files in 73 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.14 release - http://bit.ly/bseOBE	07:18
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r9437aed / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.15 release. - http://bit.ly/c3v7RV	07:30
elnino_	perlDreamer.	07:30
+perlDreamer	yes?	07:31
elnino_	don't type ctrl-n or ctrl-o it changes your character set.	07:31
+perlDreamer	really?	07:31
+perlDreamer	it does that in putty?	07:31
elnino_	apprantly. I'm not going to try it. that is what the server support guy said.	07:31
elnino_	no it wasn't putty.	07:31
elnino_	putty worked fine untill I was logged in.	07:31
+perlDreamer	weird	07:31
elnino_	then I couldn't see anythign.	07:31
+perlDreamer	I tried that on the command line, and it didn't do anything	07:32
elnino_	i'm on ubunto	07:32
elnino_	u	07:32
+perlDreamer	when you putty in, what's the terminal setting?	07:32
+perlDreamer	is it vt100?	07:32
elnino_	one sec	07:33
elnino_	ESC{n~	07:33
elnino_	ESC[n~	07:33
elnino_	I dunno. that was the default.	07:34
+perlDreamer	that's not what we're looking for. Should be something like vt100, vt102, xterm	07:34
elnino_	I used to know that stuff.	07:34
elnino_	yes, vt100 is a choice. but I have ESC[n~	07:34
+perlDreamer	ESC{n~ looks like a shell setting for the terminal line	07:34
+perlDreamer	just for kicks, try vt100 and log in again	07:35
elnino_	Linux, Xterm R6, VT400, VT100+ SCO are my choices.	07:35
elnino_	and ESC[N~	07:35
+perlDreamer	Xterm R6 is good	07:35
+perlDreamer	My laptop here is Ubuntu, and I can Ctrl-N all day long in the terminal and it ignores it	07:35
elnino_	hmm. I don't notice any difference.	07:37
elnino_	oh well. Now that I've wasted my time on that.	07:37
elnino_	I'll revisit the xml tomorrow night.	07:38
elnino_	have a good one!	07:38
+perlDreamer	good night elnino_	07:38
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ryuu_ro	does anyone know where I can crank up the maxsize of the wremonitor?	15:40
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:31
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Haarg	morning perlDreamer	18:53
+perlDreamer	morning, Haarg :)	18:53
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patspam	damn, foursquare won't let me check into the Oqapi office anymore: "Whoa, how'd you get to Oqapi HQ so quickly? To keep it fair, there are no points or badges for super-human speed. Sorry!"	19:59
patspam	my script was competing with Rory for mayordom	19:59
patspam	I guess if I stopped checking in anywhere in New York for a day or two it'd work..	20:00
+perlDreamer	bbiab	20:02
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elnino	Hey! I thought there was a quiz asset in webgui. am I dreaming?	23:35
@preaction	the Survey?	23:36
+perlDreamer	no, but you can setup the Survey to do quizzes	23:36
elnino	ok. I'll look at survey.	23:37
elnino	ooh. I like it! http://www.webgui.org/content-managers-guide-wiki/survey Thanks guys for putting this on-line!	23:40
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--- Day changed Thu Sep 16 2010
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* perlDreamer is off to the office again		00:44
+perlDreamer	bbiab	00:44
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SquOnk	preaction: I thought the .swf files were going away for 7.9.14	00:45
@preaction	sorry, i forgot. i'll remove them right now, seeing as nobody's even responded to keep them, much less provided source	00:46
SquOnk	preaction: Good.	00:47
SquOnk	preaction: That might be enough to get the Debian Release Team to include it in Squeeze, since I cannot remove the .swf files from 7.8.24 :-)	00:47
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qwebirc570	I need help with a vertical menu to list the children of the current url	01:00
@preaction	what's the problem?	01:01
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qwebirc570	The menu is from the Underground theme - it doesn't work with story topic	01:05
@preaction	so you're trying to list stories under the story topic?	01:06
qwebirc570	..yes. or list the children of the url the story topic is on	01:07
@preaction	stories don't show up in navigations unless you have "Show Hidden" set to "yes" in the navigation settings	01:09
@preaction	stories are always hidden from navigations. if there are too many of them, the speed of your site will suffer	01:09
qwebirc570	OK. How can I get the children of the url to show up in the side nav menu? Start point type = Relative to current url, - Start point = ./(0), with self & descendants checked	01:18
@preaction	if no children are showing up, they are probably hidden. On the Display or Security tab, there should be "Show Hidden". you can set that to Yes	01:19
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qwebirc570	The Story Archive is on a child of 'home' and the Story Topic is on 'Home'. Once you click the Story Topic on 'home', shouldn't it list the children of the child in the side nav menu? Currently it doesn't list any items.	01:25
+perlDreamer	The stories are not children of the Story Topic	01:27
+perlDreamer	it only lists the ones that it can find	01:27
+perlDreamer	also, stories are hidden from Navigation, like Events, or Posts	01:27
qwebirc570	But the child has 6 children including the Story Archive	01:28
+perlDreamer	the Stories are not children of the Story Topic	01:29
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+perlDreamer	and all Stories are hidden from navigation anyway	01:29
+perlDreamer	preaction: do you want me to scrub the SWF files during the next 2 releases from the default content?	01:36
@preaction	there shouldn't be any in the default content, they should all be in the extras folder	01:36
+perlDreamer	I should have said "default site as provided by create.sql"	01:37
qwebirc570	It best to then have a simple 'styled' template (with built-in nav) when you are working with dynamic content assets like Story Archive...	01:45
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+perlDreamer	qwebirc570: not necessarily	01:58
+perlDreamer	The story assets are supposed to work together to build a site like cnn.com, where per-story navigation isn't necessary.	01:58
* perlDreamer will be back in a while		01:58
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+perlDreamer	ahoy, scrottie	05:16
+perlDreamer	how's stuff down south?	05:16
@scrottie	hey.	05:28
@scrottie	alright, I guess. hard to say.	05:29
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elnino	hey. I need some expertise.	05:58
elnino	someone is blaming our server for causing 50G of bandwidth in one day.	05:58
elnino	on their site.	05:58
elnino	not exactly sure what to look for.	05:58
elnino	they decided to ban traffic from our site to theirs - what is the affect of that? I can't really imagine what that really would do.	05:59
@preaction	no RSS feed requests, perhaps?	06:03
@scrottie	ask for a copy of the logs. there's no protection against spoofing reverse DNS if you have DNS subdelegated to you.	06:05
+perlDreamer	elnino, make sure that you're not hosting any large files	06:06
+perlDreamer	and that everything is cool with the server, like you haven't been rooted and are running a flood of IRC and SPAM bots	06:07
+perlDreamer	does your hoster provide bandwidth monitoring on your end, to double check this?	06:07
elnino	does banning our site really do anything to us? it's just denying our access to their site from our server...	06:10
elnino	right?	06:10
@preaction	RSS feeds from their site won't work. http proxies to their site won't work. any requests from your site to theirs will not work	06:11
elnino	we have none of that.	06:11
elnino	we link to their site via hrefs, that's it.	06:11
+perlDreamer	then you should make sure something on your server isn't pushing 50 Gb of data to them	06:11
elnino	but atht is what is being banned.	06:11
elnino	I'm sorry, I'm just not an admin.... I did a ps aux and saw nothing.	06:12
+perlDreamer	if you're rooted, ps lies	06:12
elnino	ok.	06:12
@preaction	so they're banning by referer, which can be spoofed and is completely stupid to ban by. sorry for them that their site became temporarily popular	06:12
+perlDreamer	try rkhunter	06:12
+perlDreamer	but, as preaction tell you, I'm paranoid	06:13
elnino	btw, I did ask for logs because these people are very reactionary, and they were looking at a report that had our IP addrss which does nothing for me. So I'm hoping to get logs, but who knows. Before I even got on the call	06:14
elnino	she banned our IP addrss so it was "solved"	06:15
elnino	I later then stopped our sites and restarted, but really don't know if that did anythign.	06:15
elnino	I'm really guessing that the two sites are linking to eachother and a spider hit it.	06:15
elnino	a poorly written spider.	06:15
elnino	but our reports should have seen a spike too.	06:15
elnino	but I don't have access to those. I don't think.	06:16
@scrottie	it's hard to say without seeing some logs.	06:18
elnino	I see no spikes of hits via google analytics.	06:18
elnino	that's all I got.	06:19
elnino	I think.	06:19
elnino	hold on. i'm not thinking.	06:19
elnino	ok. downloaded rkhunter.	06:27
elnino	ran it.	06:28
elnino	got: The command '/usr/local/bin/lwp-request' has been replaced by a script: /usr/local/bin/lwp-request: perl script text executable	06:28
@preaction	that might be legitimate, depending on what the script does	06:30
+perlDreamer	to check it, you could always download a fresh copy from CPAN and diff them by hand	06:38
+perlDreamer	cursed foulness	06:40
+perlDreamer	that's another dispatch related bug	06:40
elnino	what/	06:41
elnino	?	06:41
+perlDreamer	if an asset is a child of a layout, and that asset throws an error during prepareView or View, it ends up embedding the entire admin console in it's place	06:42
@scrottie	elnino, which Linux are you on?	06:42
@scrottie	and that warning is almost certainly harmless.	06:42
elnino	ubuntu	06:43
elnino	all my warnings (8) look harmless:	06:43
elnino	http://pastebin.com/cA8U55wP	06:44
@scrottie	apt-get install debsums and run that.	06:44
@scrottie	that'll tell you if any of the binaries installed through apt have been changed.	06:45
+perlDreamer	what if they pulled in a foreign apt repo?	06:47
@scrottie	should still work. dpkg knows where things came from and it knows whether it has checksums or not and if it has checksums, it checks them.	06:48
@scrottie	unhide-linux26 unhide-posix unhide-tcp ... those are fun. they try to detect hidden processes and back doors by brute force.	06:50
elnino	what's dpkg scrottie?	06:56
* elnino is running debsums		06:57
elnino	i'm getting a bunch of no md5sums	06:58
+perlDreamer	dpkg is like rpm for Debian OS'es	06:59
elnino	http://pastebin.com/EBYV50TW	06:59
elnino	I ran debsums --changed	07:00
@scrottie	oh man. XML::Simple changes key orders around even when you feed it a Tie::IxHash ref and this .NET based SOAP parser can't deal with that.	07:02
elnino	hmm. hosting company did say outbound was riding about 2.7 M since yesterday, but then it died. What system logs would have more details of this?	07:03
+perlDreamer	2.7M * 15 << 50 Gb	07:03
@scrottie	surprised g++ and bzip2 don't have sums.	07:04
@scrottie	elnino, probably none of the logs. incoming requests to your machine are likely logged; outgoing ones, almost certainly not.	07:04
@scrottie	perl SOAP is a disaster.	07:05
elnino	that's goofy.	07:05
elnino	do you recommend any software that I can install to monitor outbound?	07:05
@scrottie	you can configure iptables, which you already have, to do that. ask The Google for a tutorial.	07:06
@scrottie	if I remembered the syntax off hand, I'd tell it to you, but I'd have to look it up and dabble with it myself and I'm getting ready to head out here.	07:07
elnino	umm. what is camfrogserver?	07:07
elnino	no problem.	07:08
@scrottie	no clue.	07:08
elnino	this is weird.	07:08
+perlDreamer	video chatroom server	07:08
@scrottie	start digging around in a modern Linux and you'll find all sorts of crap.	07:09
elnino	log files is dated the 12th, and it's mention ing a site that should be there, because that admin was "fired"	07:09
elnino	So. maybe he's been doing stuff.	07:10
elnino	this is just lovely.	07:10
elnino	I don't want to go there.	07:10
+perlDreamer	use the "last" command to check in who logged in last	07:10
+perlDreamer	video uses a lot of bandwidth, though...	07:10
elnino	I know.. that's what made me start thinking. but just poor me logs in.	07:11
elnino	lastb shows the "bad admin"	07:13
+perlDreamer	not good	07:13
+perlDreamer	make copies of all log files and contact the owner	07:13
+perlDreamer	copy the log files off the server, and then disable BA's account	07:13
+perlDreamer	does the server allow root logins?	07:13
elnino	It didn't a long time ago. I'll double check.	07:14
+perlDreamer	passwd -l username # to lock the account	07:14
@scrottie	set the login shell of all accounts to /bin/false unless there's an actual, real person who needs to connect to that account.	07:15
* scrottie &		07:18
+perlDreamer	'night scrottie	07:18
elnino	bye scrottie	07:19
elnino	thanks!	07:19
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* perlDreamer is going to call it a night, too		07:31
+perlDreamer	later, all	07:31
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elnino	preation.. please check my logic. if we have a mp3 on our site, and these people link to it. and someone comes to Their site to view the mp3, who's bandwidth is it taking up?	07:37
elnino	specifically, lets say they have a player on their site playing it	07:37
elnino	it would be both, no?	07:38
elnino	so.. if it's a 2.7M mp3 and 15 people on their site listen to it, that's 40G taken up on their side?	07:39
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elnino	opps I misspelled preaction.	08:34
elnino	night time now.	08:34
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+bartjol	mmm, send a pull request to the wrong wg branch	16:26
+bartjol	is this a problem?	16:37
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SDuensin1	Morning.	17:01
+bartjol	howdy Scott, are you a giot expert?	17:01
+bartjol	git	17:01
SDuensin1	git scares me.	17:02
+bartjol	mm, the fit desc on webgui.org does assume repo access	17:10
+bartjol	s/fit/git/	17:10
+bartjol	ah, I got it right this time	17:17
+bartjol	now closing the old one	17:19
+bartjol	well did that too	17:20
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+bartjol	mmm, looking at the duplicate international tags again	17:46
+bartjol	for instance Asset_Product/quantity is equal to WebGUI/556, so I suppose the latter one should be used.	17:47
+perlDreamer	makes sense to me	17:48
+bartjol	but in the Product script, do we want to	17:48
+bartjol	a create another i18n object	17:48
+bartjol	b use the international get method	17:48
+bartjol	ad b inline that is	17:48
+perlDreamer	this would be easier if there were no namespaces at all ...	17:50
+bartjol	yes it would	17:50
+bartjol	but there are	17:50
+perlDreamer	I would say use the namespace propert of the international get method	17:50
+bartjol	oh, I can reset namespace of the i18n object?	17:51
+bartjol	that would be nice	17:51
+bartjol	I see	17:51
+perlDreamer	$i18n->get('556', 'WebGUI');	17:52
+perlDreamer	that'll do the right thing	17:52
+perlDreamer	no need to reset the whole object	17:52
+bartjol	yeah, now I see	17:52
+perlDreamer	for making 1 call	17:52
+bartjol	yeah, that seemed quite intrusive too	17:52
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SquOnk	Greetings	17:58
+bartjol	there is even 1 double in WebGUI.pm	17:58
+bartjol	348 and 768	17:58
+perlDreamer	that's odd, any i18n with a number key is from way, way back like 5.x days	18:00
@preaction	elnino_: linking would not cause the traffic they're talking about, and linking is not something bad, they wouldn't ban for that	18:00
+bartjol	well they aren't used in the code as far as I can see	18:00
+bartjol	but maybe in templates	18:01
+bartjol	ok , the backtracing to code is do-able, but in templates it won't be	18:02
+perlDreamer	It is	18:03
+perlDreamer	there's a test that does it	18:03
+perlDreamer	t/i18n/templates.t, I think it is	18:04
+bartjol	oh	18:04
+perlDreamer	Name could also be used in a user profile field	18:06
+bartjol	yeah, and in Asset_product (tag 59)	18:07
+bartjol	well, then I have the first duplicate removed in my local branch	18:08
@preaction	http://restcards.whatfettle.com/ <- someone should take these and add them to http://thegamecrafter.com	18:11
+bartjol	joy, setup my git repo next to my install, have to do that again	18:11
+perlDreamer	preaction, that's a great idea	18:13
+perlDreamer	except the headers are too small	18:14
@preaction	well that can be fixed	18:14
+perlDreamer	and its all done in CSS instead of images	18:14
@preaction	i should write a script that uses Graphics::Primitive to write the images for TGC	18:14
@preaction	libcairo ftw!	18:14
+perlDreamer	and they say _I'm_ scary smart	18:15
+perlDreamer	just because I used to hack silicon instead of perl	18:15
@preaction	eh, it's just applied knowledge. intelligence is being able to connect dots	18:16
@preaction	but you have to have the dots firs	18:16
@khenn	has anyone ever had an issue with the following syntax using template toolkit:	18:27
@khenn	<!--[if IE 6]>	18:27
@khenn	it is stripping that out for some reason	18:27
+perlDreamer	khenn, that's an HTML comment	18:28
@khenn	yes I know	18:28
+perlDreamer	if you use Template packing, it will remove it	18:28
@khenn	ah	18:28
@khenn	that's probably it	18:28
@preaction	bartjol: the commit didn't seem to come through with your pull request	18:33
+bartjol	no, I lost it too	18:33
+bartjol	new request...	18:35
* perlDreamer goes to the gym		18:36
+bartjol	second try	18:37
+bartjol	preaction: is this one better?	18:38
@preaction	yep. just can't find the button in github to merge it	18:39
elnino_	I'm just getting sick over this whole bandwidth situation perlDreamer and preaction.	18:39
+bartjol	my $contribToWg8 ne '';	18:41
+bartjol	ok, I will be trying to get the i18n duplicates in tonight, so if I sound a bit gloomy tomorrow, don't take offence	18:44
CIA-21	webgui: Bart Jol WebGUI8 * r4c4ff79 / lib/Spectre/Admin.pm : added WebGUI::Config in lib/Spectre/Admin.pm - http://bit.ly/bmA2RC	18:44
+bartjol	mmm, maybe first trigger the problem of the excess of Dutch, German and Spanish tags	18:47
+bartjol	thanks for the appreciation patspam, If I would do the some for you, I wouldn't have any time left (chapter one of greasing up a future google employee)	18:49
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elnino_	please check my math: 50 million 100M downloads = 50 Gigs?	19:18
elnino_	no	19:19
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patspam	bartjol: :)	19:29
patspam	impressed with your git[hub] skills!	19:29
+bartjol	yeah, after too much time I succeeded	19:29
patspam	totally stacked my bike yesterday	19:32
patspam	going to have to buy new handlebars	19:32
patspam	and got some nice scrapes on my arms & hip as a souvenir	19:33
Haarg	ouch	19:33
+bartjol	new ahndlebars? that must have been a heavy drop	19:35
patspam	yeah, I slid across the road for about 3 metres	19:35
patspam	lycra is really amazing, saved me from much worse grazing	19:35
+bartjol	ow, those scrapes are terrible	19:35
+bartjol	ah, with jeans on, they're not that good (out of experience)	19:36
patspam	and my cycling gloves basically saved our $work project from being delayed => zero cuts on my hands	19:36
patspam	ouch, yeah, jeans probably rip to shreds?	19:37
+bartjol	no, the jeans themselves not, but your skin reacts like being bare	19:37
+bartjol	mmm the translationserver does write a whole file on an update, right?	19:43
Haarg	yes	19:43
+bartjol	mmm, at the moment I got my script so far as to say it deletes them, but not really wrting it yet (or write it in an unexpected dir :)	19:44
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@scrottie	bartjol, nope, not a git expert.	20:02
@scrottie	bartjol, but if you have a specific question, I might be able to answer it.	20:03
+bartjol	you come like mustard after the meal	20:03
@scrottie	heh =)	20:04
+bartjol	still thanks for the offer	20:04
+bartjol	that's a dutch proverb	20:04
+perlDreamer	patspam, I think it's time to come clean	20:06
Haarg	http://github.com/haarg/WebGUI-Translator-Plack	20:11
Haarg	not complete at all but if i get some time to work on it it shouldn't take too long	20:12
+bartjol	cool	20:12
+bartjol	I am making a script that removes alle extra tags	20:12
+bartjol	it was working, but in the wrong dir	20:12
patspam	perlDreamer: how so?	20:17
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+perlDreamer	dude, you were in the left lane taking a picture of a cute girl on a bike and you wrecked	20:18
+perlDreamer	then you photoshopped in the dog to cover it up	20:18
patspam	heh so true	20:18
+perlDreamer	no one even noticed the dog; you had to point it out to keep up the ruse	20:18
patspam	for those that missed it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/patspam/4996529210/in/set-72157624969686574/	20:21
+bartjol	Haarg my code is a bit messy, but I'll clean it up	20:22
+bartjol	the dog is the thing coming out of the helmet?	20:22
patspam	seriously?	20:23
+bartjol	it writes the files now, but it still seems to think that the tags exist, prolly a wrong path, but now I'm getting hungry	20:24
+bartjol	ah, I had to look at the next picture	20:25
+bartjol	I was just taking a guess	20:25
patspam	it's funny, helen didn't see it even after showing her the zoomed in version.. hence the third one with the big red arrow	20:27
ryuu_ro	hey guys did you see this one	20:29
ryuu_ro	http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/updating-from-7_8_24/2	20:29
+perlDreamer	I'm glad you survived okay, patspam	20:29
patspam	thanks :)	20:30
ryuu_ro	I had serious server problems today with wremonitor killing processes	20:30
+bartjol	well, I saw something like that at oqapi today	20:30
ryuu_ro	and failed to startup again	20:30
ryuu_ro	yeah dude :) that was me....	20:30
+perlDreamer	you oqapi guys, always using up all the memory...	20:31
ryuu_ro	yeah, but I don't konw why it happened	20:31
+bartjol	and discspace	20:31
+bartjol	and the semaphores	20:31
ryuu_ro	freaking semaphores	20:31
+perlDreamer	and the inodes?	20:31
ryuu_ro	had over 700 of them	20:31
+bartjol	they're greedier then a array	20:31
ryuu_ro	that was the diskspace error	20:31
ryuu_ro	but I had CHI installed	20:32
ryuu_ro	so there's the difference	20:33
ryuu_ro	could it maybe have something to do with the upgrade?	20:33
patspam	ryuu_ro: foursquare won't let me check into Oqapi anymore.. "Whoa, how'd you get to Oqapi HQ so quickly? To keep it fair, there are no points or badges for super-human speed. Sorry!"	20:34
+perlDreamer	ryuu_ro, since CHI is a driver, and CHI uses Moose, then more memory will be used	20:35
ryuu_ro	:D really, they must not know that you have superhuman powers and fly faster than light	20:35
ryuu_ro	ok, so cranking up the modperl processes would do the trick right?	20:36
ryuu_ro	but I did that a long time ago	20:36
ryuu_ro	and it's the wremonitor that kills the processes	20:36
+perlDreamer	wremonitor has limits, too	20:36
ryuu_ro	and modproxy won't restart anymore	20:36
ryuu_ro	ah ok	20:36
ryuu_ro	can be adjust those?	20:36
+perlDreamer	yes, I believe they're in the wre.conf file	20:38
ryuu_ro	let me check	20:38
+bartjol	apache\max blub	20:39
+bartjol	(he didn't listen to me today)	20:39
+perlDreamer	bartjol, they never listen the sys-admins	20:40
+perlDreamer	it's tragic	20:40
ryuu_ro	dude I was freaking out because the server was down and the failover didn't work	20:40
ryuu_ro	stupid hetzner failover :(	20:40
+bartjol	when you're freaking out, it is the most important to listen to me	20:40
+bartjol	stress handling management	20:41
+bartjol	... sounds double, but management must be good	20:41
ryuu_ro	when I'm freaking out I want you to take care of it!!!!!	20:41
+bartjol	hey, it isn't a server we controll	20:42
+bartjol	I should bill oqapi for today	20:42
ryuu_ro	ow, in that case......	20:42
ryuu_ro	i should bill procolix to have lunch with me moehahahahaha	20:42
+bartjol	rory, are you wearing a mask?	20:42
ryuu_ro	hehehe, that only works in Dutch	20:43
+bartjol	too bad	20:43
ryuu_ro	ok, so apache -> maxMemory should be adjusted too	20:43
+perlDreamer	that's a good place to start	20:44
ryuu_ro	that sounds fair	20:44
+perlDreamer	also, for Apache::SizeLimit, there's a setting in modperl.conf I believe	20:44
+perlDreamer	but one at a time	20:44
+bartjol	modperl.pl	20:44
+perlDreamer	since you're so excitable, and wearing a mask that only works in Dutch	20:44
ryuu_ro	yeah the SizeLimit is already op	20:44
ryuu_ro	up	20:44
ryuu_ro	hehehe	20:44
ryuu_ro	please forget this conversation perlDreamer	20:44
+perlDreamer	Sometimes you foreigners drive me nuts. Can't you just speak English!!!???	20:45
+bartjol	firends, o friends the cookie is up	20:45
ryuu_ro	make that the cat wise	20:46
+bartjol	the dutch ex prime minister just made a good example of "the pot blames the catle that it black seas"	20:46
ryuu_ro	hehehehe nice one	20:46
ryuu_ro	so, what would an advisable sizelimit? Or what I should ask since I'm not a server expert. How can I find the advisable sizelimit for my server?	20:49
+perlDreamer	take the total server memory	20:51
+perlDreamer	subtract out all things like OS, MySQL and some for modproxy	20:51
+perlDreamer	divide by the maximum number of children	20:51
+perlDreamer	that's worst case	20:51
+perlDreamer	but worst case doesn't happen very often	20:52
+perlDreamer	so maybe derate by 0.7 or 0.5 or something	20:52
+perlDreamer	either that, or ask bartjol so he can bill oqapi	20:52
ryuu_ro	NEVER!! :)	20:52
ryuu_ro	thanks perlDreamer	20:52
+perlDreamer	maybe slip him some beer and some homecooked food then	20:52
+bartjol	to bad sausage cheese doesn't happen very often	20:52
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ryuu_ro	sausage cheese?	20:53
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+perlDreamer	fried cheese curds...	20:53
+bartjol	worst-kaas	20:53
+perlDreamer	that's funny	20:53
+bartjol	worst - case	20:53
ryuu_ro	AHHH, dutchisms again :)	20:54
+bartjol	I know I'm funny	20:54
+bartjol	yup	20:54
+bartjol	it is amost fridayafternoon	20:54
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+perlDreamer	all this talking about food is making me hungry	20:54
+bartjol	yeah, me too	20:55
+bartjol	ao farewell and goodbye	20:55
ryuu_ro	patspam: Bondi Beach is on	20:55
patspam	heh	20:55
ryuu_ro	and Maxi just came in third in the Iron man :)	20:55
patspam	enjoy :)	20:55
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+perlDreamer	we have duplicatage!	21:25
@preaction	I DEMAND PROOF!	21:26
+perlDreamer	does that mean to push the proof button?	21:27
@preaction	oh. damnit. why come you can duplicate that bug and i cants?	21:27
+perlDreamer	because I'm on linux, and not MacOS X	21:28
@preaction	riiight, blame the OS for a browser problem.	21:28
+perlDreamer	but it's not a problem on your end :)	21:28
+perlDreamer	and I already see another bug	21:28
* perlDreamer eats some lunch		22:14
+perlDreamer	yummo!	23:03
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* perlDreamer is off to pickup kids, back in 30		23:57
--- Day changed Fri Sep 17 2010
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+perlDreamer	okay, 31	00:28
@preaction	42!	00:29
+perlDreamer	hike!	00:34
+perlDreamer	I hate being dumber than javascript	00:34
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@scrottie	I hate being dumber than .NET SOAP.	05:18
@scrottie	well, that works, I guess.	05:18
@scrottie	it warms my heart how JSON virtually annihilated SOAP.	05:22
@scrottie	good riddance.	05:22
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SDuensin1	Morning all.	16:44
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+bartjol	hi	17:08
+bartjol	wat nou	17:10
SDuensin1	wish i knew	17:28
+bartjol	sorry that was directed at that Hagenees	17:29
SDuensin1	:-)	17:29
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+bartjol	andyiomoon: isn't it in the middle of the night for you?	17:53
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elnino	good morning!	18:20
elnino	I don't knwo what happend, but on my site, I have literally hundreds of version tags that haven't been committed, is there a sql statement I can run to "commit" these?	18:21
elnino	or delete these?	18:21
elnino	they all pertain to an event on my calendar. I was trying ti import an ics, and I'm thinking it went a bit awol.	18:21
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patspam	scrottie0: what's your plainblack email address?	18:27
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patspam	lunchtime!	18:57
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* scrottie0 unidles here too		20:26
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* perlDreamer takes some lunch		22:03
patspam	wow, I just had an enjoyable afternoon with WebGUI::Form	22:36
patspam	never thought I'd say that	22:37
patspam	custom Form classes + UserProfiling is pretty awesome when it does what you want	22:38
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+perlDreamer	patspam, I've been working on a solution to the dynamic form + JS in the body problem	23:20
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+perlDreamer	man, it's quiet on Friday afternoons	01:26
lonki	afternoon?	01:27
lonki	:-)	01:27
@scrottie	I'm making a pigeon-rat in Perl.	01:27
@preaction	so, the drawbacks of both and the benefits of neither?	01:28
@scrottie	basically.	01:28
lonki	sounds like an emacs clone	01:28
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@scrottie	the LWP HTTPS bindings are a mess.	01:34
@scrottie	Net::SSLeay is a reasonably complete Perl binding for openssl but that's several layers down the stack from LWP and aside from diddling things at startup, it really doesn't give you access to it. I started just pasting the code out from the code path where the actual text of the request (which is very different from $request->as_string) but ratio of code I'd have to paste versus what I could reuse by way of method calls was too high	01:38
@scrottie	parsing the response is the same story... scattered all over, none of it where you'd expect it to be, monolithic functions	01:38
@scrottie	so, I guess I'll try Net::SSLeay's scary looking HTTPS API.	01:39
@scrottie	this is the sort of thing that would be easily solved by an implementation of Acme::ComeFrom that supported coming from line numbers.	01:40
@preaction	can't you give LWP an HTTP::Request object? would HTTP::Request accept some sort of SSL stuffs?	01:40
lonki	did you try this with a certificate accepted?	01:41
@scrottie	you can certainly give LWP::UserAgent an HTTP::Request object.	01:42
@scrottie	HTTP::Request does some SSL stuff but it doesn't expose a lot of the SSLeay API. for example, by default, it doesn't even check the server-side cert against the hostname. but it has hooks for doing that, after the request is sent.	01:43
@scrottie	it does not have hooks for lots of other things.	01:43
@preaction	fun	01:43
@scrottie	examples floating around on the 'net (always a dubious proposition) try to work around this by rigging which SSL implementation LWP will use (SSLeay being one possible one) and then diddling SSLeay at BEGIN { } time to use different defaults.	01:44
lonki	hell, even in .net it is easy to use ssl	01:44
@scrottie	I was hoping I could get a text representation of the actual request data easily enough. it winds up being about 30 lines of cut and paste code from various places. the case for getting the response and parsing it far worse. if I could have done that easily, it could easily glue Net::SSLeay and LWP together myself.	01:45
@scrottie	linki: sad thing is I'm trying to do SOAP on top of this and Perl SOAP implementations are wretched.	01:45
@scrottie	PerlDreamer: is that better, re: quiet Friday afternoon?	01:46
lonki	scrottie, hmmm	01:46
lonki	I only picked up perl _again_ just for fun, this doesn't sound like it will be :-)	01:46
@scrottie	lonki, oh, there's lots and lots of fun stuff in Perl.	01:47
lonki	maybe I should stick to ...	01:47
lonki	php? :-)	01:47
@scrottie	ugh	01:48
lonki	I know perl is fun	01:48
@scrottie	well, I was considering cutting and pasting relatively little code compared to a typical day of programming PHP	01:48
lonki	hehe	01:48
@scrottie	it's the business-y things that often get neglected in Perl... HTTPS, SOAP...	01:49
@scrottie	but on the other hand, Perl doesn't have a good PyGame counterpart.	01:49
lonki	I only do some webgui, cacti and nagios stuff in perl	01:49
lonki	next to spamikaze	01:49
lonki	but even that is long ago	01:50
lonki	started using net::snmp again this week, just for fun and shear utterly bad feelings about what is around	01:51
lonki	few lines of perl got me much more info then what is available	01:52
+perlDreamer	scrottie, I prefer a good, spirited conversation	01:56
@scrottie	perlDreamer, shall I troll, then?	01:57
+perlDreamer	"good"	01:58
@scrottie	perlDreamer: feel free to comment on any of the opinions I've expressed.	01:59
@preaction	but are they opinions or are they statements of fact?	02:00
+perlDreamer	The only thing I know about HTTPS, is that there's an S at the end of HTTP	02:00
@scrottie	I also commented that Perl lacked something like PyGame and that Acme::ComeFrom would have solved this problem (okay, that was borderline trolling)	02:01
+perlDreamer	I would like to see perl get python's debugger before it got PyGame, but that's practicality speaking	02:01
lonki	ow my, landed in a channel that is hosting emacs/vi discussions :-)	02:02
@scrottie	huh, haven't seen it.	02:02
@scrottie	every now and then, I try one of the Tk debuggers for perl but they never get very far before coredumping or having some other critical problem.	02:03
@scrottie	if you're bored, check out perldoc Net::SSLeay. the example for get_https3 has verbiage after it including "To do the verification correctly you must either employ the OpenSSL certificate verification framework or use the lower level API to first connect and verify the certificate..."	02:04
@scrottie	then scroll down to the "Lowlevel Routines" section.	02:04
+perlDreamer	well, first of all the command-line completion is awesome	02:04
+perlDreamer	it's smart enough to introspect objects and give you method completion	02:05
+perlDreamer	so, $asset-><TAB>	02:05
+perlDreamer	gives you a list of methods	02:05
+perlDreamer	that should be enough to whet your appetite	02:05
@scrottie	nice. don't some of the Perl IDEs (Komodo?) do that too?	02:05
+perlDreamer	yes, but you have to have an IDE to have that in perl	02:05
+perlDreamer	and who wants to use that, instead of emacs/vi?	02:06
@scrottie	the only thing there that's surprising is that the vim guys haven't stolen that from Komodo yet.	02:06
lonki	like there is a choice when working on nix :-)	02:06
@scrottie	or maybe that ActiveState hasn't targetted the vim/emacs audience rather than trying to sell IDEs to cranky old sysadmins.	02:06
lonki	scrottie, there was tab completion in vi before Komode was around ;-)	02:07
lonki	vim	02:07
@scrottie	I have in the past run perltags to generate ctags compat tags files but OO kinda kills that.	02:07
@scrottie	but then again, in Perl code, it's surprising how often polymorphism isn't actually used, and there's only one definition of any given method name anywhere.	02:08
+perlDreamer	yeah, and ctags still gets you close	02:08
+perlDreamer	I'm done with the code for helping WebGUI::Form controls put their JS and CSS into the HEAD tag	02:09
@scrottie	awesome. you solving that problem means that I will never even encounter it.	02:10
+perlDreamer	you will	02:10
+perlDreamer	in custom code	02:10
@scrottie	oh.	02:10
@scrottie	%&@&	02:10
+perlDreamer	and in the core code that doesn't take advantage of it yet	02:10
+perlDreamer	like Thingy, UserList	02:10
+perlDreamer	so far, the only thing that takes advantage of it is the DataForm	02:11
+perlDreamer	and, it doesn't handle inline scripts that need real code	02:12
+perlDreamer	all that needs to be bundled up into the JS that goes at the bottom of the HTML	02:12
+perlDreamer	but, and this is big, I don't think there are any style which use the new body_attachments/head_attachments template variables	02:12
+perlDreamer	so, even if I adapt it, it won't help people out.	02:13
@scrottie	hrm. how much of a project is it to update an entire style?	02:15
+perlDreamer	by hand, not hard at all. It's just manual effort	02:16
+perlDreamer	head.tags becomes head_attachments	02:16
+perlDreamer	and body_attachments goes whereever frodwith_ thinks that it needs to	02:16
+perlDreamer	at the bottom, IIRC	02:16
@scrottie	oh deary me...	02:22
@scrottie	http://gist.github.com/585135 # from Net::SSLeay	02:22
@scrottie	essentially, if($content) { $content = stuff that should be stuck into headers }	02:23
+perlDreamer	are you sure the headers are unavailable at that point?	02:24
@scrottie	the headers are available at that point.	02:24
@scrottie	$content = "Content-Type: $mime_type$CRLF" . "Content-Length: $len$CRLF$CRLF$content"; # this statement is false	02:24
@scrottie	by the time he's done clobbering $content, it is no longer the length he measured it as being.	02:25
@scrottie	so, my SOAP message is not making it to the server intact.	02:25
+perlDreamer	that's bad	02:25
+perlDreamer	send him a patch with some tests	02:25
lonki	shouldn't the head get the size?	02:25
lonki	well, $len supposes it does I think :-)	02:26
@scrottie	we're telling the server how much data to read in the request body (after the headers).	02:27
@scrottie	it knows the headers are done when it sees \r\n\r\n but then it needs to know how much more stuff to read (for POST data, or SOAP data, or whatever).	02:27
@scrottie	but that's part of the headers... the amount of body to read is not in the body and it certainly shouldn't be the entire body ;)	02:27
+perlDreamer	now that you know that it does it, you could pad the content with a bunch of whitespace at the end	02:28
+perlDreamer	that's hackish, but it should work	02:28
+perlDreamer	and it's better than losing significant characters	02:29
@scrottie	hmm? I can't do anything to the content. it gets overwritten.	02:29
+perlDreamer	don't you send it the original $content?	02:29
+perlDreamer	that subroutine prepends some stuff and lies about the number of bytes	02:30
+perlDreamer	so your content, the good stuff, gets truncated by the server	02:30
+perlDreamer	so, append a bunch of whitespace to your submitted content	02:30
+perlDreamer	if the server chops that off, who cares?	02:30
lonki	hakkish, that is the word	02:31
+perlDreamer	and the generated XML will be the same in any case	02:31
+perlDreamer	totally	02:31
@scrottie	??	02:31
+perlDreamer	lying about the content like I suggested	02:31
+perlDreamer	very hackish	02:31
@scrottie	that subroutine overwrites $content with other stuff, unconditionally. I can't send any message body to the server.	02:31
@scrottie	I can't post anything.	02:31
+perlDreamer	that's not what you pasted	02:32
+perlDreamer	$content = "NEW STUFF$content"	02:32
+perlDreamer	that's string append	02:32
@scrottie	oooh	02:32
@scrottie	duh, okay, I missed that being in there.	02:32
@scrottie	that makes more sense.	02:32
lonki	perlDreamer, there real question is why there is a little lie about the content length	02:35
+perlDreamer	oh yeah, I agree lonki	02:35
+perlDreamer	he should have precalculated the string	02:35
lonki	hehe	02:36
+perlDreamer	or, should have pushed it into the headers, since it gets a headers object	02:36
lonki	this reminds me of a challange some hacker gave me	02:36
lonki	they wanted to hack an 18+ site	02:37
lonki	so I teased them a little to see what they attempted to break the js code	02:37
lonki	and had the real thing running server side :-)	02:37
@scrottie	well, this scary code seems to actually work.	02:41
+perlDreamer	~work	02:42
@scrottie	bitwise negate work or approximately work?	02:42
@scrottie	or work's home directory?	02:43
+perlDreamer	approximately	02:43
+perlDreamer	possibly negating	02:43
+perlDreamer	but YMMV	02:43
@scrottie	heh	02:43
@scrottie	I did have to read through it to figure out which headers I had to roll up myself and which ones it was mindlessly (or conditionally) sticking in.	02:43
lonki	wouldn't it save time to fix the original code?	03:09
@scrottie	hmm? LWP you mean?	03:09
@scrottie	that would certainly save other people time ;)	03:09
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@scrottie	lonki, seems to work. I was just reluctant to use Net::SSLeay's HTTP implementation.	03:11
lonki	ok	03:12
@scrottie	and then it didn't work for me right away when I did try it.	03:12
lonki	night all, I need some sleep	03:25
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elnino	hey! is snippet going to have a "display title" in the newer versions?	04:02
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:48
+bartjol	morning	17:04
+bartjol	KlausH: might you be able to look at my forim post http://www.webgui.org/forums/deutsche-benutzergruppe/duplicate-i18n#idCiJZyetBkBGZ6h74TSwzew and reply, no hurry, but it would be convenient for comparison	17:05
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elnino	Good morning!	17:10
elnino	I'm running win 2000 or win xp, what vmware do you recommend for me to get webgui going on either of these machines?	17:10
+bartjol	oh, I believe it is the vmware application	17:12
+bartjol	never installed that one myself, but since there isn't a wre supported for windows anymore that should be the way to go	17:13
elnino	But I think I need a "VMWare Player Version 2 compatible virtual machine"	17:13
+bartjol	ah, that might be true	17:14
elnino	and that's what I'm wondering what I should install. =)	17:14
+bartjol	aaah	17:14
+bartjol	well, look at the wre's in sourceforge	17:14
jigou	You're setting that up primarily for local testing, I assume?	17:16
elnino	yes.	17:16
elnino	brb	17:16
+bartjol	and what platform had the most recent (which will be to old, so definetly run testEnvironmen)t	17:18
+bartjol	and what platform you like best	17:19
jigou	I think the standard VMWare Player is what I used when I was playing with it locally.	17:19
+bartjol	mmm, I made my laptop dual boot and am running it on ubuntu now	17:21
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+perlDreamer	good morning, everybody	17:46
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+perlDreamer	bartjol: do you have a moment?	18:03
+bartjol	sure	18:03
elnino	jigou - what is the "standard" player?	18:04
+bartjol	perlDreamer: what's up	18:04
elnino	oh. that's actually a product called that.. I see.	18:05
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+perlDreamer	that .pm file in the Spanish translation?	18:05
+bartjol	yeah	18:05
+perlDreamer	it's not in the 7.9.14 package	18:05
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9277815 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Session/Form.pm): Move logging level for validToken debugging from WARN to INFO. Fixes bug #11868 - http://bit.ly/blRUao	18:05
+bartjol	oh, maybe it is in another	18:05
+perlDreamer	it's probably leftover from earlier packages	18:05
aronchi	Hi to all	18:05
+bartjol	and just l;ingered around somehow	18:05
jigou	elnino: I believe it's also free.	18:05
+bartjol	then it will be harder to track	18:05
aronchi	Is it possible to get from a content handler the html result of a request?	18:05
elnino	so, I install that, install centos, then the wg vmwre package?	18:05
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r4edccf7 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Session/Form.pm): Move logging level for validToken debugging from WARN to INFO. Fixes bug #11868 - http://bit.ly/cCR0z8	18:06
+bartjol	aronchi: I think si, but can you be a bit more specific	18:06
+bartjol	s/si/so/	18:07
aronchi	I must create a PDF from an HTML with htmldoc	18:07
aronchi	I've generated the HTML, now I need to pass it in some way	18:07
aronchi	to HTMLDoc	18:07
aronchi	there's a binding for perl, and I thought a content handler would be the right place	18:08
aronchi	but I don't know if it's possible to intercept the output before it's returned to user	18:08
aronchi	to pass it to htmldoc instead user browser	18:08
+bartjol	well, or a workflow might be better	18:08
elnino	jigou - so, I install that, install centos, then the wg vmwre package?	18:09
aronchi	+bartjol : I need to create pdf on the fly	18:10
+bartjol	ah	18:10
+perlDreamer	aronchi, by default, all output goes straight into Apache	18:10
+perlDreamer	subsequent content handlers in WebGUI cannot touch the output	18:10
jigou	elnino: you should be able to install that, then just open the vmware package. It has centos, wre and WebGUI installed in the package.	18:10
+perlDreamer	so, your options are do a modperl handler directly	18:11
elnino	ha. oh. That is MUCH easier... =) Do you know whether or not I can install an older version of wg with the vmware?	18:11
+perlDreamer	or, look inside WebGUI::Session::Output, and find the options for setting the output filehandle	18:12
+perlDreamer	that would be done before the output is generated	18:12
+perlDreamer	and then after the output is generated, you pull the data out of your special filehandle (like a tied scalar or array), create the PDF, and return that instead	18:12
+perlDreamer	This will be much easier in WebGUI 8, where we pass around HTTP::Response objects	18:13
+perlDreamer	elnino, there's a VMWare image for 7.6.24, if that helps	18:13
+perlDreamer	and you could upgrade it to the point that you need by hand	18:13
elnino	perfect.	18:13
+bartjol	perlDreamer: is that doable, to get rid of that .pm file? it is not that I'm the only one seeing it, right?	18:13
+perlDreamer	no, you're the first to report a bug about it	18:14
jigou	elnino: Yes you can. The VMWare package I used came with 7.5.23, and I backed that up to 7.4.19 with no problem.	18:14
+perlDreamer	it's just that I found it a while ago and removed it	18:14
elnino	perlDreamer - OR maybe... I have 7.7.28 backups. are there compatibilyt issues if installled immediate onto a 7.8.23-stable?	18:14
+perlDreamer	elnino, yes!	18:14
+perlDreamer	don't do that	18:14
elnino	sweet. thanks jigou - Nice to meet you, I haven't talked with you before.	18:14
+perlDreamer	source and data must match versions	18:14
+perlDreamer	jigou did a WUC talk on VMWare, I believe	18:15
elnino	I wasn't there.	18:15
jigou	yes, I did. Kinda makes me happy that I finally got around to joining IRC and can actually answer a question!	18:16
+perlDreamer	jigou: have you tried the new VMWare image that I published last week?	18:16
elnino	lol. Well then I know who to talk to when I do this soon.	18:16
jigou	I have not.	18:16
+perlDreamer	I didn't formally announce it yet, because it's my first, and I'd like it to be given a spin	18:16
+perlDreamer	you game?	18:17
+bartjol	aronchi: you also might be cheaper, using http://search.cpan.org/~audreyt/PDF-FromHTML-0.31/lib/PDF/FromHTML.pm	18:17
jigou	I'm toying with doing some server swaps in the near future anyway....so yes, but probably not for a day or two?	18:17
jigou	(or maybe longer....)	18:18
+perlDreamer	if you have time, that would be awesome	18:18
+perlDreamer	aside from the WRE and WebGUI changes, I also installed screen	18:19
+perlDreamer	that's about the whole list of changes that I did on purpose	18:19
jigou	:-) I've put it on my list.	18:19
+perlDreamer	It was cool to see that VirtualBox would read the VMWare file and work with it.	18:20
CIA-21	wgdev: Graham Knop tree-ls * r6dff30b / lib/WGDev/Command/Ls.pm : add tree option to ls - http://bit.ly/bsWMY8	18:36
+bartjol	mm, I see that the uniqueProductLocations (7.9.13-7.9.14) function isn't called in the 7.9.13-7.10.0 script, any specific reasons?	18:37
+bartjol	because I upgraded to 7.9.14 already, and don't wanna break anything to seriously	18:39
+bartjol	(it is only a test site)	18:40
+perlDreamer	because uniqueProductLocations is in 7.9.14	18:43
+perlDreamer	and will also be in 7.10.1	18:43
+bartjol	but not 7.10.0	18:43
+bartjol	ok	18:43
+bartjol	fair enough	18:44
+perlDreamer	tomorrow	18:44
+perlDreamer	wait until tomorrow, and all your product locations will be unique	18:44
+bartjol	they already are	18:44
+bartjol	I have to comment that sub out	18:44
+perlDreamer	is it very slow?	18:45
+bartjol	otherwise I get a singular point of uniqueness and my site will coolapse	18:45
+bartjol	www.bartjol.nl	18:45
+bartjol	oh, wait, I've got a test httpd pwd file	18:45
+bartjol	removed	18:46
+perlDreamer	oh no, the upgrade sub is smarter than that. If a product is already unique, it doesn't touch it	18:46
+bartjol	ah	18:46
+bartjol	less worries for me then	18:47
+perlDreamer	believe it or not, I do try to make upgrading easy on users ;)	18:47
SDuensin	No way! I don't buy that! :-P	18:47
+bartjol	accept with paydrivers :P	18:47
+bartjol	then it autofails	18:48
SDuensin	Autofail is nice. Manually failing sucks.	18:48
+perlDreamer	have to autofail	18:48
+perlDreamer	either the upgrade fails and you know that you have to fix it	18:48
+perlDreamer	or, your site fails and it costs you sales	18:48
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf1af76a / (2 files in 2 dirs): Try cleaning out the bad spanish bare .pm file again. Fixes bug #11875. - http://bit.ly/9itUCQ	18:49
+perlDreamer	besides, I thought we fixed that one?	18:49
+bartjol	yeah, I can understand that, I was just teasing, you fixed the documentation	18:49
* perlDreamer is too thin skinned on Monday mornings		18:50
+bartjol	you can stand a bit of teasing I may hope...	18:50
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r6fd949a / (2 files in 2 dirs): Try cleaning out the bad spanish bare .pm file again. Fixes bug #11875. - http://bit.ly/cRc4NO	18:51
+bartjol	well, let's go beta then	18:52
+bartjol	10 to 6 pm, the best time to try beta installs :)	18:52
+bartjol	oh and now it's gonna think it doesn't need an upgrade	18:54
+perlDreamer	silly WebGUI. It never does what it is told	18:56
+perlDreamer	Upgrade! (No, I don't need to upgrade)	18:56
+bartjol	just rename the upgrade file	18:57
+bartjol	I was fearing UI had to go into the db'	18:58
+bartjol	well, fearing is a bitt too much	18:58
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+bartjol	ryuu_ro: I also removed the .pm file on the oqapi server	19:09
+bartjol	it will be in the upgrade script	19:09
ryuu_ro	ah cool, thanks	19:09
+bartjol	well, Colin did the last part	19:10
+bartjol	I just made your log file smaller	19:10
+bartjol	oh, and I wrecked the user creation template on sleutelpapa	19:11
+perlDreamer	wgd edit to the rescue!	19:11
+bartjol	will be fixing that tomorrow	19:11
+bartjol	does it have a cape? can it moo?	19:11
+perlDreamer	no, but it can outdrink a Dutchie	19:11
+perlDreamer	and, you can fix templates from the command line	19:12
+bartjol	I always template directly in the db ;)	19:12
ryuu_ro	:D	19:12
+bartjol	no fuss with the code editor	19:13
ryuu_ro	bartjol: I don't think I have much time for sleutelpapa tommorow	19:13
+bartjol	well, I will have time I think	19:13
+bartjol	to bad for mr Compier	19:13
ryuu_ro	I almost finished the paydriver	19:13
ryuu_ro	indeed	19:13
+perlDreamer	custom paydriver?	19:13
ryuu_ro	yep, it's for Ideal	19:13
+bartjol	alomost?, almost? almost is not good enough you squire!	19:14
ryuu_ro	Ideal is an payment gateway used here	19:14
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2766b72 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl): let findBrokenAssets.pl find and use custom assets instead of reporting them as broken. Fixes bug #11873 - http://bit.ly/9onLNs	19:16
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rebdf8f0 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl): let findBrokenAssets.pl find and use custom assets instead of reporting them as broken. Fixes bug #11873 - http://bit.ly/dq5L8M	19:16
+bartjol	goodday	19:16
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r317a4d7 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl): Let findBrokenAssets.pl display the className of broken assets. Thanks Knowmad! - http://bit.ly/a95sry	19:20
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r15c7551 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl): Let findBrokenAssets.pl display the className of broken assets. Thanks Knowmad! - http://bit.ly/9zQvRA	19:20
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+perlDreamer	it's time for the yearly whine about "shortcut by criteria"	19:58
@preaction	yay!	19:58
@preaction	wait, yearly? I whine about it ALL THE TIME	19:58
+perlDreamer	can we kill it in 7.10?	20:00
@preaction	unfortunately no, as we have no replacement for it	20:00
@preaction	if we had a specific asset that did that and only that, then we could remove those bits of Shortcut	20:01
+perlDreamer	I keep thinking that it's worthless, but jigou uses it for something	20:02
+perlDreamer	and it doesn't work with checklists at all	20:02
jigou	I'm not using it yet, but I'm starting to look into it pretty heavily....	20:02
@preaction	yeah, that's really the reason why we can't just remove it now. someone is using it :p	20:02
+perlDreamer	ha! He's not using it yet. It's gone	20:02
@preaction	oh, then perhaps you'll see what a horrible solution it really is :(	20:02
jigou	I was going to post on the support board to see if we could come up with something better....	20:02
@preaction	well, what's the end goal?	20:03
jigou	The end goal is to be able to display content that is tagged with metadata.	20:03
+perlDreamer	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdeadbeef/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm): Remove shortcut by criteria - http://bit.ly/foobar	20:03
@preaction	right, and iirc we had discussed adding that feature to the Asset Report asset	20:04
jigou	SQL reports can do it, I just need to dig in a little more to figure out the queries I need.	20:04
@preaction	perlDreamer: nice try :p	20:04
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+CIA-XX	ebgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdeadbeef/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm): Remove shortcut by criteria - http://bit.ly/foobar	20:04
-!- CIA-XX is now known as perlDreamer		20:04
+perlDreamer	is that better?	20:04
@preaction	close, but no buttons. you misspelled ebgui	20:04
+perlDreamer	d'oh	20:04
jigou	I'd sure like it to be a little more user-friendly than a pile-o-SQL, though.	20:05
+perlDreamer	that's not even SQL	20:05
+perlDreamer	it's post processed to be SQL	20:05
+perlDreamer	and the query builder is supposed to help you abstract that out	20:05
jigou	Yeah, I'm thinking beyond that already....	20:05
+perlDreamer	We always accept patches :)	20:05
jigou	HAH! You got a hole in your jeans or something? 'Cause that's the only patch I can contribute! :D	20:06
jigou	Preaction, talk a little more about what might be added to asset report? That sounds like it's heading the direction I'd like to see it go.....	20:07
@preaction	add all the metadata fields as criteria in the asset report list of criteria you can report on	20:07
jigou	Nice. So it could pull from articles and collaboration systems?	20:08
@preaction	well it can already do that, i hope	20:08
@preaction	it would just be able to say "pull assets where this metadata value is "value""	20:08
jigou	That's exactly what I'd like to see.	20:09
+perlDreamer	that's part of the problem with the checklist	20:09
+perlDreamer	it wants to work like a set	20:09
+perlDreamer	and inverting the set isn't fun	20:09
+perlDreamer	in fact, I'm not even sure it will work because of the way that metadata is stored	20:09
jigou	For whatever it's worth, I'd rather see tiem put into making the Asset Report handle metadata than fixing the "shortcut by alternate criteria" stuff I've been looking at!	20:17
+perlDreamer	that's an RFE vs a bug report	20:18
+perlDreamer	bugs have to be fixed	20:18
+perlDreamer	ugh	20:42
+perlDreamer	preaction, did you know that template packing removes conditional CSS statements meant to work with IE?	20:42
@preaction	yes, i've been keeping track of the bug tracker	20:44
+perlDreamer	for HTML::Packer? cool	20:46
+perlDreamer	until that's fixed, should we disable packing of comments?	20:46
@preaction	well, packing is disabled by default. can we disable packing of comments entirely? that'd be the better option	20:47
+perlDreamer	yes, there's an option for that	20:47
@preaction	then yes	20:47
+perlDreamer	Merten does good work	20:47
@preaction	er.. i thought *::Packer were the ones using the bad vars?	20:47
+perlDreamer	yes	20:48
+perlDreamer	but he's working on removing them	20:48
+perlDreamer	dude, there's no bug for conditional comments on HTML::Packer	20:56
@preaction	no, sorry, i meant the WEbGUI bug list	20:56
+perlDreamer	it's not on there, either. I just filed it	20:59
elnino	um.. wiki search isn't working again on wg.com. why so much problems?	21:05
+perlDreamer	did it work since you reported the bug?	21:05
elnino	sorry, hadn't tried.	21:06
elnino	but I find over the years it sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't. hence the misleading comment. =(	21:06
+perlDreamer	I'll reindex tonight	21:11
+perlDreamer	I meant to do it last week, but did plainblack.com instead	21:11
elnino	ok. thanks. Sorry to add more to your plate.. Its just curious to me that the serarch results end up "blank" as opposed to "outdated results"	21:12
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb4c20a1 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix importing an Archive in default order. Update the test to now explicitly test for archive order. Fixes bug #11866. - http://bit.ly/bYre3Y	21:46
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r84a530b / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix importing an Archive in default order. Update the test to now explicitly test for archive order. Fixes bug #11866. - http://bit.ly/czORJg	21:46
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rab6ba36 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm): Fix a typo in the Gallery's default addArchive gallery template. - http://bit.ly/bUxo6Y	21:51
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8ebab0b / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm): Fix a typo in the Gallery's default addArchive gallery template. - http://bit.ly/d95XfO	21:51
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* perlDreamer takes a lunch break		22:14
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+perlDreamer	lunch has been broken	23:05
+perlDreamer	time to fix bugs again	23:05
elnino	hey perlDreamer... If I install my 7.7 db into 7.8, and then run the upgrade.pl, would it still bork?	23:18
+perlDreamer	if it was the last 7.7 stable, then it would work okay	23:18
+perlDreamer	at that point, from the upgrade's point of view, it can't tell the difference between a code overlay, or a db overlay	23:19
elnino	k	23:20
+perlDreamer	man oh man	23:23
+perlDreamer	for this latest packing bug	23:23
+perlDreamer	we have to repack every version of every asset	23:24
@preaction	yay!	23:24
* perlDreamer reminds himself to start early tomorrow night		23:24
+perlDreamer	preaction: does the SC wobject still use XSLT?	23:28
@preaction	uh... i was not aware it ever did	23:28
+perlDreamer	There are XSLT templates in the db	23:28
elnino	perlDreamer.. I stepped away to think. So, it would work because though the db would say it was 7.7, the upgrade script would just end up upgrading the db, and just recopy the code.	23:29
+perlDreamer	no need to recopy the code	23:30
+perlDreamer	imagine that you start with 7.7.28 code base and database	23:30
elnino	it would think it would, so it would.	23:30
+perlDreamer	you unpack 7.8.24 on top of it	23:30
+perlDreamer	now, you have 7.8.24 code, and 7.7.28 database	23:30
+perlDreamer	you get to the same endpoint if you install 7.8.24 codebase, and setup a 7.7.28 database	23:31
elnino	oh ok. I see.	23:31
+perlDreamer	and in those examples, it should be 7.7.33	23:31
+perlDreamer	not 7.7.28	23:31
elnino	so I do stil need to upgrade	23:32
+perlDreamer	yes	23:32
elnino	what are those special versions called again?	23:33
+perlDreamer	stop versions	23:33
elnino	ah. ok thatnks!	23:33
+perlDreamer	7.7.33, 7.8.24, 7.6.35, 7.5.40	23:33
+perlDreamer	and some others ;)	23:34
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r86ecb10 / (5 files in 4 dirs): Keep comments when packing asset content, since it will also remove conditional comments for IE. Fixes bug #11876 - http://bit.ly/dx56U9	23:38
+perlDreamer	I think a commit comment along the lines of "Your upgrade will be slower than molasses in Antarctica" would have been descriptive, but unprofessional	23:40
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r873d1bf / (6 files in 4 dirs): Keep comments when packing asset content, since it will also remove conditional comments for IE. Fixes bug #11876 - http://bit.ly/bfBCiA	23:42
--- Day changed Tue Sep 21 2010
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+perlDreamer	preaction, how do I find good complementary colors, for row highlighting?	00:13
@preaction	what context? a yui table? use their highlighting class	00:14
+perlDreamer	I wish it was that easy	00:14
+perlDreamer	this is the query builder for the Shortcut	00:14
+perlDreamer	instead of background graphics to show row-wise association, I'm using table row background colors	00:15
+perlDreamer	so I want a good contrast for EDF5FF	00:15
+perlDreamer	which is the Admin Console content area background	00:15
@preaction	adobe's kuler works, but just going a little lighter or darker usually works just fine	00:16
jigou	http://www.colorschemer.com/online.html	00:19
jigou	I used to have a really good site for that, but I can't find it right now....	00:20
+perlDreamer	that's better than me guessing :)	00:20
jigou	I know the feeling!	00:21
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3f934ed / (3 files in 3 dirs): Use table row highlighting instead of images for deliniating query fragments. Fixes bug #11877. - http://bit.ly/cBF4sy	00:26
+perlDreamer	there you go, jigou	00:26
CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r31297fe / (3 files in 3 dirs): Use table row highlighting instead of images for deliniating query fragments. Fixes bug #11877. - http://bit.ly/c7ze5w	00:26
+perlDreamer	that will fix the wrapping problem with too many checkboxes, or radio buttons	00:27
jigou	:-)	00:27
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+perlDreamer	if I start changing template variable names to be more compatible with T::T, then we're going to break every template in The Addons	00:56
+perlDreamer	preaction: is that an acceptable tradeoff?	00:56
@preaction	yes	00:57
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CIA-21	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0b4e8d5 / (9 files in 5 dirs): Rename template variables in the Account and Admin Toggle templates to not use underscores. - http://bit.ly/9YDc7G	01:23
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+bartjol	is the i18n server already updated to 7.10.0? I don't see a label for the Add on in the adminconsole	12:35
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+bartjol	it was not i18n'd	15:10
+bartjol	made a fix for it	15:11
+bartjol	tested in on my install	15:14
+bartjol	so I am already on 7.10.1....	15:15
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ryuu_ro	patspam: wassup, I remember you did this cool thing with wgd and templates and git right?	18:37
ryuu_ro	at least I thought it was you	18:38
patspam	what sort of cool thing?	18:38
ryuu_ro	you put the templates in Git using wgd	18:38
patspam	yeah, all assets actually	18:38
ryuu_ro	ah, I thought it was templates only	18:39
ryuu_ro	anyways, do you have it somewhere?	18:39
ryuu_ro	I couldn't find it in last years presentation	18:39
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ryuu_ro	the command that is	18:39
patspam	haarg might have baked it into wgd	18:39
Haarg	there's two things	18:39
patspam	it uses wgd's asset serialisation method	18:39
ryuu_ro	ok, that sound good	18:39
Haarg	wgd export-branch	18:39
Haarg	which can generate that	18:40
Haarg	and http://github.com/haarg/webgui-assets	18:40
Haarg	which i wanted to keep up to date but never set anything up for it	18:40
patspam	ha nice	18:40
patspam	that's exactly what the TWG needs	18:40
patspam	and something to send the list a diff every time something changes	18:40
patspam	so that they can review template changes	18:41
ryuu_ro	yeah that sounds good	18:41
Haarg	i	18:41
Haarg	i'll have more free time in a couple weeks, i can try to set up something to automate that then	18:41
+perlDreamer	Has TWG changed their mind about working with the current templates?	18:41
patspam	oh good point	18:42
patspam	but if it was dead easy, they could at least cast their eyes over changes	18:42
patspam	and say "bad developer" when necessary	18:42
+perlDreamer	true	18:42
+perlDreamer	I also started a templates.txt doc for keeping track of changes	18:42
+perlDreamer	it's not a diff, just a description of the change	18:42
ryuu_ro	well a little context is always good	18:43
patspam	so ryuu_ro: export-branch probably serialises one file per asset, using wgd's patented format that can be re-exported back into a site	18:43