WebGUI irc logs from: 2010-10.log

--- Log opened Fri Oct 01 00:00:12 2010
+perlDreamer	Haarg, with this we could build form processing right into the object classes: http://gist.github.com/605323	00:05
+perlDreamer	$self->processPropertiesFromFormPost and then $self->write	00:05
+perlDreamer	it's so small!	00:05
Haarg	small is good	00:06
+perlDreamer	and it's completely object agnostic	00:06
+perlDreamer	well, at least as far as I've seen so far	00:07
+perlDreamer	when I work on the Shipping Drivers, if it works the same way, then I'll write a Role for it	00:07
+perlDreamer	and from there we could put it into Definition::Role::Object or something	00:07
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+perlmonkey2	What's the whatsa?	02:06
+perlmonkey2	How's things in webguiville? Haven't looked at 8 in a while, things coming along?	02:06
@khenn	hey there kaleb	02:08
@khenn	how goes?	02:08
@khenn	things are well	02:08
scrottie0	few moth wings in the relays. no big deal =)	02:16
CIA-61	webgui: Scott Walters webgui-7.9 * r8fa64d7 / t/Asset/File/ZipArchive.t : Load WebGUI::Test before other modules so that it can fix up @INC to point to the main, non-test, libs. Thanks, cj! - http://bit.ly/c4TvDz	02:20
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r41e068b / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.16 development. - http://bit.ly/dxhgr0	02:21
scrottie0	oh, right, port to stable.	02:23
* scrottie0 slaps his head		02:23
scrottie0	thanks	02:23
+perlDreamer	you're welcome :)	02:24
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+perlmonkey2	hah, groovy. good to hear.	02:26
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+MrHairgrease	howdy	17:40
+MrHairgrease	In Thingies, are things the actual data that is being stoired	17:40
+MrHairgrease	?	17:40
+MrHairgrease	oh wait, data is stored in the Thingy_$thingId tables?	17:42
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qwebirc16966	do any of you know if the weather asset works in WebGUI 7.8.24?	19:36
+perlDreamer	you have to have a special key for the service to run it	19:38
+perlDreamer	but aside from that, it should work	19:38
qwebirc16966	I do, but it doesn't display anything after I add it. It does the same when I click on the link	19:39
+perlDreamer	hm, the API could have changed, or the reference URL	19:40
+perlDreamer	are there any errors in the WebGUI log file?	19:40
qwebirc16966	I haven't checked that. Do you know what directory that would be in? Something like /data/wre/ ???	19:41
+perlDreamer	/data/wre/var/logs	19:41
+perlDreamer	/data/wre/var/logs/webgui.log to be exact	19:41
qwebirc16966	I'll check it out now	19:41
qwebirc16966	this is kinda weird. the logs are empty.	19:43
+perlDreamer	what is the log level in /data/WebGUI/etc/log.conf ?	19:45
qwebirc16966	here's an error message i'm getting in modperl.error.log.0. httpd: apr_sockaddr_info_get() failed for webgui httpd: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.0.1 for ServerName	19:46
+perlDreamer	that's an apache level issue	19:47
+perlDreamer	I'll see if they have free developer keys for the weather service, and see what's up.	19:47
+perlDreamer	if you'd post this on the WebGUI bug board, I'd really appreciate it	19:47
qwebirc16966	sure	19:47
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+perlDreamer	morning scrottie	19:48
@scrottie	heya perlDreamer	19:48
+perlDreamer	frodwith, my Friday has been taken up with spectre bug fixing	19:48
+perlDreamer	which is quite ironic, given your pending commit	19:48
+perlDreamer	how about we unpend it?	19:48
@frodwith	:)	19:50
@frodwith	I'm fiddling with it some, actually	19:50
@frodwith	putting copy with children/descendents in there too	19:51
@frodwith	and empty trash, if I've the time	19:51
@frodwith	what's the spectre bug, out of curiosity?	19:51
+perlDreamer	It's the -007 bug	19:51
+perlDreamer	10189	19:51
+perlDreamer	I deleted the wrong thing, originally (which was the cron job)	19:52
+perlDreamer	that caused bad problems, so I backed out that line, but kept the status check	19:52
+perlDreamer	however, it brought back the problem, which was the hung workflow instance	19:52
+perlDreamer	so I've added back in code for deleting the workflow instance in the case where spectre cannot be notified	19:52
+perlDreamer	and am hot-testing it on an affected server	19:53
+perlDreamer	the way it works is this	19:53
+perlDreamer	spectre determines it's time to run a cron job, so it calls WebGUI	19:53
+perlDreamer	WebGUI creates an instance of the correct workflow, and tries to tell spectre what the instanceId is, for tracking	19:53
+perlDreamer	however, for whatever reason, it can't talk to spectre	19:54
+perlDreamer	so the workflow instance is not tracked	19:54
+perlDreamer	it remains in the db forever	19:54
+perlDreamer	and, if it's a singleton workflow, it blocks all future attempts to run it	19:54
@frodwith	like, the webgui can normally talk to spectre	19:57
@frodwith	just not in this case due to some transient problem	19:58
@frodwith	and so it gets stuck?	19:58
+perlDreamer	yes	19:58
+perlDreamer	spectre doesn't know about the instanceId, so it never calls for it to be run	19:58
@frodwith	Could we make webgui return the instanceId in the response rather than call spectre back?	19:59
+perlDreamer	I'd have to look to see if the architecture allows that	20:00
+perlDreamer	the "Cron" and "Workflow" halves of spectre are in different packages	20:00
+perlDreamer	and I don't know if they can talk to one another or not	20:00
* frodwith zips his lips shut on the entire subject of spectre architecture...		20:00
+perlDreamer	but it could suffer from the same problem	20:01
+perlDreamer	if the workflow instance is created, and there's some error and spectre gets a 500, the same thing would occur	20:01
@frodwith	Well, you could send an immediate response	20:01
@frodwith	via $session->output->print	20:01
@frodwith	or you could wrap the run in an eval	20:02
+perlDreamer	what if the wremonitor kills the apache instance before it can do that?	20:02
@frodwith	Run all workflow instances in WebGUI::Forks :(	20:02
@frodwith	but then we're back to posting back.	20:03
@frodwith	I think.	20:03
+perlDreamer	another thing spectre should do is dial up WebGUI every 4-6 hours to refresh the list of cron jobs and instances from the database	20:03
+perlDreamer	that would fix all problems	20:03
@frodwith	eventually.	20:03
@frodwith	which is what we care about i suppose	20:03
@frodwith	that it gets fixed -eventually-	20:03
+perlDreamer	sure, there would be a lag in service until the refresh	20:03
@frodwith	why just every 4-6?	20:04
@frodwith	I guess it's a bit of an expensive procedure.	20:04
+perlDreamer	s/4-6 hours/user defined interval/;	20:04
@frodwith	Wait, why can't spectre just -look- at the database?	20:04
+perlDreamer	spectre is designed to be "Simon"	20:04
+perlDreamer	Simon says, "Run the cron job"	20:04
+perlDreamer	Simon says, "Run the workflow instance"	20:05
+perlDreamer	that's all it does	20:05
@frodwith	right	20:05
+perlDreamer	it's very, very lightweight	20:05
+perlDreamer	it's not designed to talk to the db	20:05
@frodwith	but it could	20:05
@frodwith	that'd be adding another constraint though I suppose.	20:05
@frodwith	"spectre must be able to talk to the database", cause it doesn't have to be able to now	20:05
+perlDreamer	yeah, the idea was to keep all that inside WebGUI	20:06
+perlDreamer	so that spectre is trivially small	20:06
@frodwith	it's a potentially expensive operation because it could be quite a large list, and serializing large json structures takes time	20:07
@frodwith	so 4-6 hours is probably reasonable	20:07
+perlDreamer	it's the old interval that we recommended for people to restart spectre for the original problem	20:07
+perlDreamer	not only is it expensive, but imagine hosting servers where there's 30+ sites	20:08
@frodwith	I don't have to imagine	20:09
@frodwith	I know it's expensive because I manage servers with that many sites ;)	20:09
@frodwith	some of them were older webguis too where we used to generate "Do Nothing On Deletion" workflows every time you deleted an asset	20:10
+perlDreamer	yeah, you PB folks are all the same, bragging about your big hosting servers	20:10
+perlDreamer	ugh	20:10
@frodwith	so you'd empty the trash and get 9000 workflow instances	20:10
+perlDreamer	and spectre would suddenly get constipated?	20:11
@frodwith	oh very.	20:11
@frodwith	and starting spectre would take 5 minutes or so	20:11
@frodwith	cause of all the json serialization on 50 sites	20:12
@frodwith	and the cpu would be pegged	20:12
@frodwith	and everyone would be happy	20:12
@frodwith	I eventually just wrote a script to run all the pending workflow instances in real time	20:12
@frodwith	shut everything down	20:12
@frodwith	ran that	20:13
@frodwith	and do that whenever things get too clogged.	20:13
+perlDreamer	sounds like BotLax	20:18
cj	anything new and exciting here?	20:44
+perlDreamer	nah, same old, same old	20:51
+perlDreamer	saving the world via writing perl code	20:51
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neil_	Hi.	21:16
@frodwith	HI.	21:17
Haarg	hi	21:17
neil_	I'm Modperl Apache2 SizeLimit errors: [Fri Oct 1 22:06:01 2010] (27985) Apache2::SizeLimit httpd process too big, exiting at SIZE=89004/100000 KB SHARE=2412/0 KB UNSHARED=86592/75000 KB REQUESTS=6 LIFETIME=0 seconds	21:17
@frodwith	'snot really an error	21:18
@frodwith	more like information	21:18
Haarg	the limits can be adjusted in the modperl.pl file	21:18
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neil_	I noticed some work on wre 93 (#10502)	21:18
Haarg	well, in that case it is. it's killing the process every time it checks.	21:18
Haarg	i would say increase the unshared memory limit in /data/wre/etc/modperl.pl to 100000	21:20
neil_	thanks. I will make the change.	21:29
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neil_	How else can I install Perl module, PerlIO::eol so that Thingy works?	21:33
@scrottie	neil_, are you using the WRE?	21:36
neil_	yes. perl testEnvironment.pl	21:37
@scrottie	that was what I was going to suggest. does that not work?	21:37
@scrottie	I can suggest other things if not but I'd like to know how it fails if it fails.	21:37
neil_	3 modules don't get installed - CHI, Net::Twitter, PerlIO::eol	21:38
neil_	I did a pastebin 1 day ago	21:40
@scrottie	get cpanminus from cpanmin.us. save to a file in /data/wre/prereqs/bin/ and chmod ugo+x it. edit it and change the first line to read #!//data/wre/prereqs/bin/perl	21:43
@scrottie	er #!/data/wre/prereqs/bin/perl	21:43
@scrottie	or maybe it would make more sense to put it in /data/WebGUI/sbin. yeah, I like that better.	21:43
@scrottie	but it should have a first line of: #!/data/wre/prereqs/bin/perl	21:43
@scrottie	then run it: /data/WebGUI/sbin/cpanm PerlIO::eol	21:44
@scrottie	if it fails to install any of those modules, it'll give a message about the failure being in a lot. post that log.	21:44
@scrottie	er, being in a log.	21:44
neil_	ok. will do	21:50
@scrottie	I can't promise anything for getting it to go but I'll take a look if it doesn't.	21:52
@scrottie	afkbrbpbj!	21:58
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@khenn	does anyone know of a perl module that will take a keyword search string and turn it into something useful for me to deal with?	22:35
@khenn	for instance	22:35
@khenn	someone searches for Frank Dillon	22:35
@khenn	I want to search for both Frank and Dillon	22:35
@khenn	but if they type "Frank Dillon"	22:35
@khenn	I just want to search the entire word	22:35
@khenn	"Frank Dillon" + Plain Black	22:35
@khenn	etc	22:36
@khenn	Text::Query I think is what I want but I can't tell. Seems like it might be hooked into a datasource ...	22:36
@frodwith	Looks like Search::Query::Parser will do what you want	22:39
@khenn	yeah I was looking at that	22:45
@khenn	oh wait	22:45
@khenn	no I was looking at Search::QueryParser	22:45
@khenn	let me check that other one out	22:45
@khenn	thanks frodwith	22:47
@khenn	I'll give this a shot	22:47
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carogray	hi all	23:35
carogray	Is there a way in the template to limit the number of times a loop, loops?	23:35
@frodwith	with template toolkit you could	23:36
@frodwith	not in html::template though	23:36
carogray	aah. have you got time to	23:36
carogray	give me a little more info?	23:36
carogray	I want to limit the navigation template only to loop through maybe 5 times	23:36
@frodwith	are you already using TT for that template?	23:37
carogray	nope	23:37
@frodwith	http://www.webgui.org/ht_to_tt	23:37
@frodwith	first off, convert it to a Template Toolkit template	23:37
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carogray	oooh wow!	23:38
@frodwith	then fine the loop you want to limit, and stick something along the lines of [% IF loop.index > 4 %] [% BREAK %] [% END %]	23:38
carogray	ok did that.	23:38
@frodwith	er, s/fine/find/	23:38
carogray	yep got that	23:39
carogray	okey doke!	23:39
carogray	I will try...	23:39
@frodwith	good luck :)	23:39
carogray	uh... when I make a new template with template toolkit I need to change the Template Type to Template::Expr right?	23:41
@frodwith	no, needs to change to template toolkit	23:41
@frodwith	if you don't have that as an option, you need to enable it in your config file	23:42
@frodwith	"templateParsers" : [ ...whatever you already have..., "WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit" ] or so	23:43
carogray	oh harumpf... I am sure I used it before... perhaps that was a for another site.	23:43
carogray	We have our sites hosted at Plain Black - I am a fake so I will have to ask them to enable it for me.	23:43
carogray	Is this one of those things I can check somewhere to make sure it isn't already enabled?	23:44
@frodwith	if it isn't in your dropdown deal, it isn't enabled	23:44
carogray	okay... will quickly ask them.. thanks for the help so far.	23:44
@frodwith	np	23:44
* frodwith pretends he doesn't work at Plain Black.		23:44
carogray	ha ha... and you would be...?	23:45
@frodwith	paul@plainblack.com. But I don't work in the part where I could enable that for you ;)	23:45
carogray	no, neither do I remember your name from other encounters. must look you up. Have requested thanks only have 10- minutes before I gotta go round up the goats and pigs! may have to come back to this tomorrow.	23:49
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qwebirc16966	here's a stupid question. what can I use to edit the template?	00:44
@frodwith	what do you mean?	00:45
qwebirc16966	the page layout template	00:46
SDuensin	I just use a text editor and then paste it into WebGUI.	00:47
SDuensin	Anyone using CentOS? I'm having a problem with testEnvironment. I get this: http://jaeger.pastebin.com/dkR75WLx	00:47
SDuensin	I'm not that familiar with CentOS. Help!	00:48
@frodwith	I think it doesn't know where your libmysqlclient.so is	00:49
SDuensin	Not in the WRE?	00:50
@frodwith	it should be	00:50
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@frodwith	I'm assuming you did setEnvironment?	00:50
SDuensin	Yep	00:50
* SDuensin usually uses Debian.		00:50
@frodwith	what's your LD_LIBRARY_PATH say?	00:50
SDuensin	Uh. CHecking.	00:51
SDuensin	Or will be checking as soon as CPAN gives me a prompt back. :-)	00:51
@frodwith	also google seems to think it might have something to do with SELinux. Try running "setenforce 0" before installing?	00:55
SDuensin	Thanks. I'll try that. Still CPANning.	00:55
sneex	Ctrl-Alt-f2?	00:57
SDuensin	I've already got a zillion screen sessions going. :-)	00:58
SDuensin	Libs:	00:58
SDuensin	DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH=/data/wre/prereqs/lib:	00:58
SDuensin	LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/data/wre/prereqs/lib:	00:58
sneex	just mention it so you're not shackled to cpan command prompt	00:58
SDuensin	And I don't have a 'setenforce'.	00:59
SDuensin	I'll yum in the mysql client and see if that helps. Maybe the WRE is buggered.	00:59
@frodwith	http://www.crypt.gen.nz/selinux/disable_selinux.html	01:00
@frodwith	whichever magic incantation from that	01:00
SDuensin	looking	01:00
@frodwith	I guess you can turn it back on after you finish installing?	01:00
SDuensin	Updating CPAN may have fixed it.	01:01
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* sneex is thinking if I can ask an Apache2 question here and not get slaughtered? It is indirectly related to WebGUI ...		01:14
@frodwith	I won't kill you. this time.	01:15
@frodwith	But I may also not ansewr.	01:15
@frodwith	or answer.	01:15
sneex	I will anyways :-D I am trying to block hosts to WebGUI but the condition seems not to work: RewriteCond ${hosts-deny:%{REMOTE_ADDR}\|NOT-FOUND} !=NOT-FOUND (as seen from: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.3/rewrite/access.html BUT I am running 2.3 :P	01:16
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Haarg	this is on the same apache instance running mod_perl?	01:17
sneex	yes	01:17
Haarg	webgui is probably grabbing bypassing the rewrites	01:17
Haarg	err	01:18
sneex	Grrr :P Sorry, I am running version 2.2 of apache NOT 2.3 :(	01:18
Haarg	grabbing the request before it gets to the rewrite rules	01:18
sneex	I was hoping the syntax would work in 2.2	01:18
sneex	oh, I see	01:18
@frodwith	you probably also want to do the rewrite in mod_proxy?	01:18
sneex	let me disable web Gui and see :P bbl Thanks	01:18
sneex	yes, I understand Ill see if I can fix it	01:19
sneex	Thx :)	01:19
Haarg	also a more complete config snippet would probably help as well	01:19
Haarg	the syntax shown on that page should work on 2.2 as well	01:20
Haarg	any 2.x really	01:20
sneex	See http://pastebin.com/a7MhPVXM :P I'm just wanting to ban serious break-in attempts (as opposed to curious break in attaemps :-D	01:24
sneex	I discovered WebGui over a year ago, but them the company got sold and things have ben a little hectic ever since ... just now getting back to it	01:25
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sneex	Ok, I think I am going to remove all Apache2 stuff and start over and test before I install WebGui; this way it will be tested and reduced to simplistic terms :)	01:47
sneex	Thx again for the ideas :)	01:47
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cj	screenshot of pdf rasterized to 8.5x11 resolution! your ticket to the fast lane in recruiting.	02:54
SDuensin	Alright, who here knows CentOS? I need help.	02:57
+perlDreamer	whatcha need, SD?	02:59
SDuensin	I can't get crap to run.	03:00
+perlDreamer	oh, well that's easy	03:00
SDuensin	Turning off selinux for good. See if that helps. Also turned off ossec.	03:00
+perlDreamer	crap won't run on CentOS	03:00
+perlDreamer	you have to run good software, like WebGUI	03:01
SDuensin	That's what I'm installing on it!	03:01
+perlDreamer	WRE/non-WRE ?	03:01
SDuensin	WRE, of course.	03:01
* SDuensin is a good little minion.		03:01
+perlDreamer	packaged, or hand compiled?	03:01
SDuensin	Packaged.	03:01
+perlDreamer	32 bit hardware, or 64?	03:01
SDuensin	32	03:01
+perlDreamer	yeah, disable selinux and you should be fine	03:02
+perlDreamer	put it into permissive mode if you want to be cautious	03:02
+perlDreamer	you checked the wiki and the README and so on and so forth?	03:02
SDuensin	Wiki, yes. Readme? What are those?	03:03
SDuensin	:-P	03:03
SDuensin	# ./wreservice.pl --start mysql	03:03
SDuensin	Start MySQL: FAILED!	03:03
+perlDreamer	is there a file called /etc/my.cnf?	03:03
SDuensin	Shit. I'm an idiot.	03:04
+perlDreamer	dude, if you only knew how many times we've seen that	03:04
+perlDreamer	everyone does it	03:04
SDuensin	I'm supposed to know better!	03:04
SDuensin	Still failed.	03:04
+perlDreamer	is mysql already running?	03:04
SDuensin	Nope. Box is pretty bare.	03:05
+perlDreamer	double check just to humor me	03:05
SDuensin	I did. :-)	03:05
+perlDreamer	what happens if you do:	03:06
+perlDreamer	/data/wre/prereqs/share/mysql/mysql.server start --user=webgui	03:06
+perlDreamer	and while you're at it, check the file permission on /data/wre/var/mysqldata and make sure user webgui can write there	03:08
SDuensin	Starting MySQL.Manager of pid-file quit without updating fi[FAILED]	03:08
+perlDreamer	look for /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.pid or some such. Remove it.	03:08
+perlDreamer	have you made/edited a wre.conf file yet?	03:09
SDuensin	I can't even run wreconsole....	03:10
SDuensin	Problem is, this box is firewalled. I have 80 and 22 open. So I change the wreconsole script to use 80...	03:10
SDuensin	It can't start the server. And, no, nothing is on 80.	03:10
+perlDreamer	you should be able to run wreconsole through an ssh proxy	03:11
+perlDreamer	I don't remember the syntax for doing it off the top of my head though	03:11
SDuensin	Yea, that's my next attempt. However, my wife is out of the house for a few minutes and I need to go get an anniversary card before I'm in big trouble. :-D	03:12
SDuensin	Back in 10!	03:12
+perlDreamer	without being able to run wreconsole.pl, it's really hard to setup a WebGUI wre.conf	03:12
+perlDreamer	I'll dig back through the logs and see what I can find	03:13
+perlDreamer	SDuensin: http://www.webgui.org/wiki/port-forwarding	03:14
+perlDreamer	this is what I'd do.	03:14
+perlDreamer	wipe the current WRE install completely	03:15
+perlDreamer	unpackage it again	03:15
+perlDreamer	setup the tunnel	03:15
+perlDreamer	go through the install	03:15
+perlDreamer	SUCCESS!	03:15
SDuensin	Ok, back. Dang, its hard to get away from her and the kids for enough time to buy a card!	03:25
SDuensin	Nuking WRE.	03:32
SDuensin	Ok, I'm connected to the console but it's not right. No templates or something. Background is white, no formatting at all.	03:35
SDuensin	Ah ha! Progress!	03:40
* perlDreamer is out for tonight		04:32
+perlDreamer	later, all	04:32
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sneex	Update on http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=598847 -- :P Not a webgui issue -- but I haven't enabled webgui yet LOL I'll keep you posted.	20:35
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+perlDreamer	morning, folks	17:55
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+bartjol	howdy	18:15
+bartjol	mmm, wrting to a configuration file to keep up a status	18:17
+bartjol	that doesn't sound like best practises	18:17
+perlDreamer	bartjol, if you look at the bug, it suggests using some kind of real locking	18:20
+perlDreamer	on the file, or otherwise	18:20
+bartjol	well, I just read the forum post (and the bug post just now)	18:23
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@scrottie	hullo, hullo	18:33
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@preaction	does anyone know if ernesto tried building ukplayer with a foss stack?	19:41
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+perlDreamer	no news yet, praction	19:53
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CIA-61	wrebuild: Doug Bell master * r856c1ef / build.sh : more fixes for 64-bit builds (Knowmad Technologies) - http://bit.ly/alZ7ta	20:28
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CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r5ea552f / (3 files in 3 dirs): Date form plugin needs to observe the time zone of the viewer of the data when processing AND displaying date. Fixes bugs #11789 11894 - http://bit.ly/bCD5CM	21:53
+perlDreamer	yay! More bad date logic tested and beaten into shape	21:53
@preaction	yay!	21:53
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3cf7783 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Date form plugin needs to observe the time zone of the viewer of the data when processing AND displaying date. Fixes bugs #11789 11894 - http://bit.ly/cFSyxU	21:53
+perlDreamer	but preaction, there's even more yay to be heard	21:55
@preaction	yay?	21:55
+perlDreamer	that was the bug I assigned to you several weeks ago and I fixed it for you!	21:55
@preaction	awesome!	21:55
+perlDreamer	now I'm going to go and eat some bologna for lunch	21:56
@scrottie	didn't get enough this morning?	21:57
@preaction	weird al ate it all	21:57
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+perlDreamer	I knew I shouldn't have invited Al over this morning	22:55
+perlDreamer	not only did he eat all my bologna, but he prevented me from doing useful work while we practiced the accordion duet for his new album	22:56
@scrottie	breakfast time is _not_ polka time.	22:56
+perlDreamer	it was _after_ breakfast	22:57
+perlDreamer	much closer to brunch	22:57
@scrottie	brunch is polka time.	22:58
@preaction	we need an admin audit trail for everything... everything everything everything...	23:13
+perlDreamer	are you talking site-wise, or server-wise?	23:13
@preaction	everything a content manager can do through the WebGUI UI	23:13
@preaction	settings, ldap connections, everything	23:14
@preaction	i love sub error in WebGUI::Auth. i can clobber errors and never ever see them! yay!	23:17
+perlDreamer	preaction, is that Auth entrials I see on your arms?	23:22
+perlDreamer	and why are you holding that knife?	23:22
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r229a408 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make the default printable page template PB-agnostic. Fixes bug #11857. - http://bit.ly/9XM1qe	23:27
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rcedac2f / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make the default printable page template PB-agnostic. Fixes bug #11857. - http://bit.ly/bQgFwr	23:29
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CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7f06579 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Credit.pm lib/WebGUI/User.pm t/Shop/Credit.t): Add purge method to Shop::Credit, tests. - http://bit.ly/d6ZmNh	00:21
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r82ed3f0 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix shop credit display and calculations in the PayDriver. Fixes bug #11891 - http://bit.ly/9He543	00:21
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf9de5e4 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Credit.pm lib/WebGUI/User.pm t/Shop/Credit.t): Add purge method to Shop::Credit, tests. - http://bit.ly/djZvVX	00:22
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r55da7a4 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix shop credit display and calculations in the PayDriver. Fixes bug #11891 - http://bit.ly/cDHQdh	00:22
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@scrottie	it's starting to rain. power, DSL and cable are probably all going to go out in a minute. Phoenix isn't water proof.	00:37
@preaction	but it's a desert. how do you even GET water?	00:40
@scrottie	mostly, we sue Nevada over rights to the Salt River.	00:41
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@scrottie	the river used to wind through Phoenix and Tempe but it's dry now. the water that makes it out of Nevada gets held in a reservoir north of Phoenix now days.	00:46
@preaction	eh, nothing good ever came out of nevada anyway	00:46
@preaction	i mean, what happens in nevada, stays in nevada, and the rest of the world is grateful for it	00:47
@scrottie	we made an artificial lake in downtown Tempe but the damn popped. I swear to god, I'm not making this up.	00:47
@scrottie	er, dam.	00:47
@preaction	heh, nice	00:47
@scrottie	heh	00:47
@preaction	now if only we could get San Francisco to stfu we'd be good	00:47
+perlDreamer	preaction: for this bug: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11871	00:50
+perlDreamer	is "no selectlists" an option for the query builder?	00:50
+perlDreamer	sorry, "no checkboxes"	00:51
+perlDreamer	the problem is this is done is SQL, and set operations inside a column aren't fun	00:51
@preaction	well it'd have to be removed from metadata	00:51
@preaction	or special-cased in metadata to have mutiple names with different values	00:52
@preaction	and he doesn't even really use this yet, so i can still try my damnedest to get rid of it	00:52
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+perlDreamer	shortcutByCriteria is from all the way back in 6.3	01:28
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@preaction	yeah, donorware i believe	01:29
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CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r4c15127 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm : Remove old debug code from the Shortcut. - http://bit.ly/9HPJJm	02:36
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r85e1815 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm : Remove old debug code from the Shortcut. - http://bit.ly/dDB6aj	02:37
+perlDreamer	oh, yeah, the -007 hanging workflow bug is back	02:46
+perlDreamer	but I have another pending fix	02:46
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:24
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qwebirc62901	when you edit a template, how do you move the navigation bar to the top? So far, I've copied a template and looking the at the html in code editor?	18:52
+perlDreamer	The navigation bar is usually in the Style template	18:53
+perlDreamer	if the template was well designed, the navigation will be brought in with the AssetProxy macro	18:54
qwebirc62901	OK, thanks. I'll check it out. Sorry, I'm a newbie.	18:55
+perlDreamer	dude, everyone's gotta learn somehow	18:56
SDuensin	Hey, I've been here forever and I still ask a lot dumber questions than that. :-)	18:56
+perlDreamer	did you get your WebGUI up and running, SD?	18:57
SDuensin	Which one? :-) Yea, it's going great now that I turned off all the security crap.	18:58
+perlDreamer	security is so overrated	19:01
+perlDreamer	now, what's the IP address of this machine?	19:01
+perlDreamer	:)	19:01
SDuensin	lol	19:02
qwebirc62901	did you use the appliance SD? Is there any security switches that need to be turned off?	19:03
SDuensin	No. This was a box that was given to me to set WebGUI up on.	19:04
+perlDreamer	oh, the folly of building parsers with regular expressions...	19:06
SDuensin	You could do it like the original Netscape browser... Bud of mine on the team said it was just a huge block of "if..."!	19:07
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* perlDreamer is off to the gym		19:15
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* perlDreamer gratefully falls into a chair		20:41
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r97ffe51 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Handle checkLists in the Shortcut query builder, and in the SQL. Fixes bug #11871. - http://bit.ly/cBFSHA	21:04
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * ra25e212 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Handle checkLists in the Shortcut query builder, and in the SQL. Fixes bug #11871. - http://bit.ly/cPLCLJ	21:04
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * radbec05 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/Cron.pm): refix the hanging singleton workflow problem with spectre. Fixes bug #10189, again. - http://bit.ly/biCwO5	21:08
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb7ab6ae / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/Cron.pm): refix the hanging singleton workflow problem with spectre. Fixes bug #10189, again. - http://bit.ly/aqthvo	21:09
+perlDreamer	I submit the commit adbec05 as being officially funny, as it has the first 5 (05) letters of the alphabet, albeit not in order	21:09
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+perlDreamer	hey, khenn!	21:30
@khenn	hey	21:30
@khenn	how's it going perlDreamer?	21:30
+perlDreamer	not bad	21:31
+perlDreamer	fixing bugs	21:31
+perlDreamer	writing tests	21:31
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rab2be62 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt docs/gotcha.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm): The back to site URL in the login message should return the user to the page where they logged in. Fixes bug #11897. - http://bit.ly/adMvOg	21:31
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd93238d / t/Auth.t : Move Auth cleanup into a addToCleanup sub. - http://bit.ly/d8JVZc	21:31
@khenn	I hear that	21:31
+perlDreamer	how 'bout you?	21:32
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * ra5f14d4 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt docs/gotcha.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm): The back to site URL in the login message should return the user to the page where they logged in. Fixes bug #11897. - http://bit.ly/bgFbmN	21:33
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r01df5d2 / t/Auth.t : Move Auth cleanup into a addToCleanup sub. - http://bit.ly/dk4kAF	21:33
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SDuensin	Anyone alive?	22:11
@preaction	perlbot anyone	22:11
perlbot	preaction: Somewhere, someplace, in some universe, somebody uses whatever you just asked about. However, if you actually want help with it, please just ask a question; don't ask to ask, or ask if anyone can help.	22:11
SDuensin	:-P	22:11
SDuensin	I need into a site I don't have the password to. I do have database access to it. So I coped the password hash from another site into this one. Still can't log in. Did I miss something?	22:12
@frodwith	Try setting the password with the webgui api	22:13
SDuensin	Yea. That was my next idea. Anyone got such a snippit? My connection here to browse is currently sucktastic.	22:13
@preaction	SDuensin: screw passwords. UPDATE userSession SET userId=3 WHERE sessionId="find your session id in your cookie"	22:18
@preaction	WE DON'T NEED NO STEENKING PASSWORDS	22:18
SDuensin	Mmm... Cookies.	22:18
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SDuensin	hehehe - I like the cookie trick. :-)	22:30
SDuensin	Thanks!	22:30
qwebirc62901	Where can I change the placement of the navigation bar? Right now, its on the left hand side of the page. I would like it on the top.	22:36
@preaction	qwebirc62901: edit your style template. look for AssetProxy. the URL in there points to another asset, possibly a navigation. move it where you want it	22:37
@preaction	qwebirc62901: see also SDuensin's excellent article: http://www.webgui.org/design/wiki/how-to-give-webgui-your-own-style	22:38
@preaction	or the WebGUI Designer's Guide by Plain Black: http://www.webgui.org/documentation2/webgui-designers-guide	22:38
* SDuensin blushes (and didn't write that)		22:38
@preaction	shit. wait. huh?	22:38
qwebirc62901	OK, i do see it. I play with it and check out the provided link. thanks.	22:39
@preaction	ah, i see. Jesse wrote it	22:39
SDuensin	I'll take credit for excellent articles. :-) Wasn't me though!	22:46
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elnino	HEY! really quick question.. I hope.	23:51
elnino	I have a folder of file assets that are images.	23:51
elnino	I have a snippet that I want to reference the thumbnail version of these.	23:51
elnino	is it as simple as adding tn to the filename?	23:52
elnino	I tried _tn.jpg, but I got a no page found errorl	23:52
@preaction	^StorageUrl() macro would be far better probably	23:52
+perlDreamer	or the Thumbnail macro	23:53
+perlDreamer	^Thumbnail();	23:53
+perlDreamer	you give it an Image Asset URL	23:53
elnino	but I'm in a snippet. oh. there is a thumbnail macro?	23:53
+perlDreamer	oh yes, there is :)	23:53
elnino	oh yes, I should have known. You guys think of EVERYTHING.	23:53
+perlDreamer	<blush> we try	23:56
elnino	sweet, it takes a file asset too,according to the wiki.	23:56
* elnino tries it.		23:56
+perlDreamer	it may not work with a File asset	23:58
* perlDreamer goes to pick up the kiddos from school		23:58
elnino	it works PERFECTLY with file asset. Thanks guys!	23:59
--- Day changed Wed Oct 06 2010
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+perlDreamer	preaction, any chance I can beg, coerce or bribe you to take a look at some of the Code Editor bugs?	00:31
@preaction	aren't we just removing the code editor entirely?	00:31
+perlDreamer	last time we talked, I thought we were going to add another option to see if it worked better	00:31
+perlDreamer	but I haven't gone down that route yet	00:32
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@preaction	nope, we were going to remove it by default and later add the option to have a code editor if someone wanted one	00:32
+perlDreamer	we can do that, too!	00:32
+perlDreamer	remove it in both branches, or just master?	00:33
@preaction	i'd say both, it's got bugs, that'll fix the bugs	00:33
+perlDreamer	should be put something out in the dev list, or some other forum first?	00:33
+perlDreamer	or just kill it and laugh loudly :D	00:33
+perlDreamer	I'm running out of fixable bugs again	00:34
@preaction	kill it and let someone praise you for doing so on the dev list	00:34
+perlDreamer	I've got the vague, the unreproducible	00:34
+perlDreamer	and then the Editor bugs (TinyMCE and CodeEditor)	00:34
+perlDreamer	okay, scourgify it is	00:34
+perlDreamer	we shall cleanse it with everlasting fire	00:34
+perlDreamer	and highly charged magnetic particles	00:35
+perlDreamer	it will only exist in the darkness of previous revisions	00:35
+perlDreamer	where there is weeping and gnashing of keyboards	00:35
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf883d8b / (5 files in 3 dirs): Remove the YUI based code editor from WebGUI, and replace it with a textarea. Fixes bug #1618, and others. - http://bit.ly/asuCVU	00:46
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r17a0ed5 / (5 files in 3 dirs): Remove the YUI based code editor from WebGUI, and replace it with a textarea. Fixes bug #1618, and others. - http://bit.ly/9M1thc	00:46
+perlDreamer	it's gone preaction	00:48
@preaction	yay!	00:48
Haarg	probably want to add in the code that allows you to use the tab key	00:50
+perlDreamer	patches welcome	00:52
+perlDreamer	besides, we always use spaces, it's WGBP	00:52
+perlDreamer	I can't think of any other lousy excuses not to do that	00:53
Haarg	well i certainly wouldn't argue with having it insert spaces instead	00:53
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Haarg	if a decent code editor was wanted, mozilla's skywriter could be a decent option. would only work in modern browsers but that's probably fine. although at this point it's probably best to just abandon the idea and maybe revisit it a while in the future.	01:01
+perlDreamer	I'm going to try codemirror next	01:01
@preaction	we already tried codemirror, or at least i did. it's in the bazaar	01:02
+perlDreamer	according to this wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_JavaScript-based_source_code_editors	01:02
+perlDreamer	skywriter doesn't work with IE	01:03
Haarg	like i say, modern browsers	01:04
+perlDreamer	IE market share dropped below 50% according to a recent report	01:05
@preaction	IE doesn't satisfy the word "browser"	01:05
Haarg	it might work in ie9, not sure	01:05
+perlDreamer	well, I'm guessing that whatever we adopt has to either be completely browser agnostic, or has to degrade back into a textarea	01:05
+perlDreamer	that way, it's an enhancement instead of a feature	01:06
Haarg	i think it would be much better off as a feature that works well in some browsers than shitty in all of them	01:08
+perlDreamer	bespin is like emacs	01:17
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@scrottie	grrrrrrr.	01:30
+perlDreamer	somebody feed scrottie, his IRC client is growling	01:32
@scrottie	my IRC client likes buffer overflows. plz DCC me a buffer overflow.	01:33
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5ff871f / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix loose calls to $form->param('key') - http://bit.ly/d9621A	02:04
+perlDreamer	Did you know that $session->form->process is called 1141 times in the core?	02:07
@scrottie	*{UNIVERSAL.'::'.$_} = CGI::param($_) for CGI::param would fix that.	02:11
+perlDreamer	not really	02:11
+perlDreamer	form->process allows you to do per-plugin backend processing on the form data for validity	02:12
@scrottie	escape everything with \'s and it doesn't matter if it's valid.	02:12
@scrottie	Pro Internet tip: do not attempt rational conversations with irrational people.	02:13
@scrottie	er, Internet Pro Tip.	02:13
+perlDreamer	scrottie, you're not saying you're a troll, are you?	02:17
@scrottie	trolls never admit they're trolls.	02:26
@scrottie	I can't think of an on-topic comment to make about the 1141 $session->form->process calls though	02:31
+perlDreamer	well,you could say something like	02:42
+perlDreamer	hm, at 5 seconds per entry, it will take over 2 hours of laborious, painstaking code review	02:42
+perlDreamer	sucks to be you!	02:42
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SDuensin	Wow that FAQ template in the Collaboration System is ugly! :-)	04:37
@preaction	as opposed to every other template in webgui?	04:38
SDuensin	This one is exceptional in it's uglyness. :-P	04:38
@preaction	indeed	04:38
SDuensin	Eww: http://www.jaegertech.net/software/cross-platform-blu-ray-playback	04:39
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, if you have a better one, we'd take it	04:51
SDuensin	Needs nice AJAX-y roll-up questions. :-)	04:51
+perlDreamer	uh, we couldn't take that, unless it degrades gracefully	04:53
+perlDreamer	everything in WebGUI that faces a user is supposed to work without JS	04:53
SDuensin	Yea. The article editor is trying to enforce that. Keeps removing my src attribute from the script tag!	04:55
SDuensin	No wonder my ad doesn't show up.	04:55
SDuensin	Fixed! Go Go AssetProxy!	05:02
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elnino	hello. I'm going to attempt to ask a question that I realy don't know how to ask. anyone there to listen?	06:02
@preaction	nope	06:02
elnino	lol	06:03
elnino	ok. I'll go now.	06:03
elnino	so.	06:03
elnino	I have a client that is flipping the ownership of the upload's directory structure. depending on who is putting new files in.	06:03
elnino	I can only assume that he thinks that apache and webgui both need to access that structure.	06:04
elnino	and that both of these services are runnign as different users.	06:04
elnino	am I making sense?	06:04
@preaction	uh, if they're running as different users, that is a mistake	06:04
elnino	I would agree.	06:04
@preaction	it's also not possible. webgui runs as the apache user, because it's running under apache	06:04
elnino	but from what I can tell that's what he's trying to explain.	06:04
elnino	He ddn't install using wre. he installed using source.... so, now, is it possible?	06:05
elnino	...that he needs two different users?	06:05
elnino	s/needs/wants	06:05
@preaction	no	06:05
@preaction	unless he has two different apache instances running with two different config files	06:05
elnino	that was my next question.	06:05
@preaction	then it's possible there are two different users. in that case he wants to add them both to a single group and chown :groupname /uploads/directory/path	06:06
elnino	or he's using the uploads directory sturcture for non-webgui purposes.	06:06
elnino	ok. I like that idea.	06:07
elnino	new topic: is there a place in newer versions of webgui wher ethere is a "run on login" script type functionality?	06:17
elnino	I would like to run a script upon login.	06:17
elnino	but I only see the auth mod as the logical place to do such thing.	06:18
@preaction	runOnLogin in the config file	06:19
+perlDreamer	Does anybody know if there's a release tonight?	06:19
elnino	oh. perfect. thatnks.	06:20
elnino	good night!	06:21
+perlDreamer	later, elnino	06:27
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1689c01 / t/Form/Date.t : Fix a time sensitive problem with one of the tests. - http://bit.ly/a3h65f	06:37
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r2691af9 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix loose calls to $form->param('key') - http://bit.ly/aNwVPt	06:37
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r3155443 / t/Form/Date.t : Fix a time sensitive problem with one of the tests. - http://bit.ly/azNEac	06:37
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4635b91 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.10.2 release. - http://bit.ly/ca6Oae	06:49
+perlDreamer	oh, happy joy! No upgrade subs tonight :)	06:51
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-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.9.14-stable \| 7.10.2-beta \| WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com		07:01
+perlDreamer	It's 7.9.15-stable, Radix_	07:03
+perlDreamer	next week it'll be .16	07:03
+perlDreamer	you gotta stay with the times, dude ;)	07:03
-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.9.15-stable \| 7.10.2-beta \| WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com		07:03
+Radix_	I don't always see the emails go past :)	07:03
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r20db028 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.3 development. - http://bit.ly/ac205L	07:05
+perlDreamer	we've been having spectre problems again, so they may not have come past :/	07:05
+perlDreamer	but this week's upgrade should fix that one	07:05
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+danny_mk	good day everyone	16:41
+danny_mk	I am interested in finding out how we are going to proceed with authentication in WebGUI 8	16:42
+danny_mk	I have not touched the OpenId module in preparation for 8 just to make sure I don't go down the wrong path	16:43
SDuensin	Morning.	16:48
+danny_mk	Morning	16:56
+bartjol	morning	16:57
+bartjol	danny_mk: I think the best idea (while having a lack of devs) is to browse the webgui8 git branch	16:59
+danny_mk	yup, of course :-(	16:59
+bartjol	not the simplest method unfortunately	17:01
+danny_mk	well, nothing is easy anymore	17:02
+bartjol	you almost sound depressed	17:02
+bartjol	it is different, so unfortunately, we'll have to get used to that	17:03
+danny_mk	Nah, not depressed, LOL, I just miss discussion and conversations that do not include weather, I have to read all the time for work so I tend to ask a lot of questions when I have someone to ask	17:05
+danny_mk	anyway, thanks, I will browse the git branch	17:06
+bartjol	well, that's what the channel is for	17:06
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cj	o/	18:19
+perlDreamer	yo, cj	18:19
+perlDreamer	how hackest thou, today?	18:19
SDuensin	\o_	18:19
cj	perlDreamer: good question. I will find out at 1500 my time :)	18:21
@preaction	it's a good webgui day!	18:45
@preaction	danny_mk: let me find the presentation for the API changes that we're making in WebGUI::Auth in 8. there's been changes in 7.9 that allows Twitter and Facebook auth to work, OpenID will need to follow the same principles	18:46
+danny_mk	yup, saw the twitter and facebook stuff	18:46
@preaction	http://www.plainblack.com/uploads/bf/db/bfdb9f76a51fdb987b2152a0df70fb05/Auth-API-Changes.pdf here's the presentation. some of it isn't done yet, but that's exactly what changes will happen	18:48
+danny_mk	OK, thank you.	18:49
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* scrottie waves		19:29
cj	hi scrottie!	19:30
* preaction vibrates		19:30
@scrottie	yo cj	19:31
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qwebirc75334	Do you guys recommend installing WebGUI from scratch or just using the appliance for a clean install? I like to install it on Suse 11.	20:00
+perlDreamer	you really have 3 options for installing	20:01
+perlDreamer	1) source install - using native OS packages for mysql, perl, apache, etc.	20:01
+perlDreamer	2) WRE install	20:01
+perlDreamer	3) Appliance running on host	20:01
+perlDreamer	#2 is the recommended way to go	20:01
+perlDreamer	#3 is really for demonstration/learning purposes, but is used in production environments	20:01
+perlDreamer	#1 is for purists who insist on giving up the WRE's performance enhancements in favor of easy, local upgrades.	20:02
qwebirc75334	Cool, thanks.	20:04
qwebirc75334	I think I'm going to go with option #2.	20:04
@frodwith	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSXIr98ay3Y whistle, twiddle thumbs, look innocent	20:08
+perlDreamer	frodwith, the longer I wait to approve it, the better it gets	20:09
@frodwith	hehe	20:09
@preaction	i like the mouse twirling you do after clicking ;)	20:10
+perlDreamer	why are you missing the Advertising icon in the Admin Console?	20:10
Haarg	ad blocker most likely	20:12
@frodwith	oh, yeah, I have adblock in my chrome	20:13
@frodwith	do I twirl my mouse after clicking? watches	20:13
@frodwith	rofl	20:13
@frodwith	I do!	20:13
+perlDreamer	it's because you don't have any hair to twirl	20:14
+perlDreamer	common compensatory issue	20:14
@frodwith	clears throat into mic	20:16
@frodwith	so yes, anyways. Code is here http://github.com/frodwith/webgui/tree/fork	20:17
@frodwith	all rebased onto current trunk and whatnot	20:18
@frodwith	Hmm. Turning adblock off doesn't give me an icon though.	20:24
@frodwith	How odd.	20:24
plainhao	is that a chrome extension?	20:25
@frodwith	oh. yes it does. whew.	20:25
@frodwith	Yup hao	20:26
plainhao	i noticed that in my safari extension, even if i whitelist certain domains, the ads still get blocked	20:26
@frodwith	i had to pause adblock to get it to show up	20:27
plainhao	interesting	20:27
plainhao	why do you use chrome? is there something similar to firebug or safari dev tools?	20:28
@frodwith	yeah, similar to safari dev	20:29
@frodwith	I don't -think- they're exactly the same tools, but maybe they are	20:30
@frodwith	chrome is webkit, so	20:30
@frodwith	I use Chrome 'cos it's fast	20:30
plainhao	cool, time to check out chrome again, thanks :)	20:30
@frodwith	I do occasionally break out Firefox for firebug though. Hard to beat.	20:30
plainhao	yeah, firebug is still awesome	20:31
cj	+1	20:31
cj	even though it seems to cause firefox to hang pretty often	20:31
@preaction	eh, i prefer the chrome tools, because i can still browse the internet while i'm using them	20:32
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* perlDreamer is off to pickup the kids from school		23:28
+danny_mk	I am wondering why we are developing a twitter/Facebook/... Auth login module when the OpenId one can use both of these and more	23:36
@preaction	facebook is not an openid provider, they are an openid consumer	23:39
@preaction	twitter is also not an openid provider	23:40
+danny_mk	Hmmm... I could swear I was able to login to WebGUI using my facebook account	23:44
--- Day changed Thu Oct 07 2010
+danny_mk	I have to test that and get back to you, later...	00:01
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@preaction	this damnable search thing gets more and more complicated... now i need to make search filters into objects...	01:13
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* perlDreamer is off to cook dinner		03:03
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daviddelikat	whats the current version of the wre?	03:59
@preaction	0.9.3	04:03
daviddelikat	where is the download for wre?	04:07
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@preaction	getwebgui.com	04:07
daviddelikat	thanks, I had looked everywhere else but not there...	04:08
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SquOnk	Greetings	16:49
SquOnk	I'm getting	16:49
SquOnk	Can't locate object method "_can_be_made_compatible_with" via package "Moose::Error::Default" at /usr/lib/perl5/Class/MOP/Class.pm line 371.	16:49
SquOnk	7.9.15	16:49
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SquOnk	So, this happens with Class::MOP 1.09 but not with 1.04	17:17
SquOnk	Can anyone reproduce it?	17:17
SquOnk	Seems to be a problem with Config::JSON	17:17
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-!- mode/#webgui [+v danny_mk] by ChanServ		17:35
+danny_mk	Good day	17:35
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+perlDreamer	SquOnk: greetings	17:37
+danny_mk	I am testing facebook authentication and in fact they do provide OpenId authentication, I am working on automatic registration but want to make sure the efforts are not in vain	17:37
+danny_mk	Who is working on WebGUI::Auth::Twitter?	17:39
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Hello there.	17:39
+perlDreamer	danny_mk: that's preaction	17:39
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Bad news on the Debian Squeeze front (you'll read about it in a bit).	17:39
SquOnk	perlDreamer: 7.9 is not going to make it in.	17:40
+perlDreamer	SquOnk: more emails pending?	17:40
SquOnk	perlDreamer: And that's for sure.	17:40
+perlDreamer	SquOnk: but 7.8 will be in?	17:40
+danny_mk	OK, I will continue with development and we will have to deal with obsolete code later	17:40
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Can the potential vulnerabilites be backported to 7.8.24 via a simple patch?	17:41
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Without adding new dependencies, that is.	17:41
+perlDreamer	SquOnk: yes, the vulnerabilities in question are pure code changes	17:41
+perlDreamer	however, didn't you say that it had to be an officially released version?	17:41
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Great then! I don't need a 7.8.24.1 release. Just the patch that fixes that.	17:41
+perlDreamer	awesome!	17:41
+perlDreamer	give me a bit, and we'll do some git history and commit tracking	17:42
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Great. We have a couple of days anyway :-)	17:42
SquOnk	perlDreamer: If you feel better releasing a 7.8.24.1, go ahead. But it's by no means necessary.	17:42
+perlDreamer	SquOnk: that's preaction's call	17:42
+perlDreamer	I've made unofficial releases before and put them into the community area on sf.net	17:43
SquOnk	perlDreamer: If you feel right about it, please reply to the debian-release e-mail (to all) saying that you are looking into either a backporting patch or a "final 7.8.24.1 release"	17:45
+perlDreamer	what are the two RC bugs that you backported to 7.8, SquOnk?	17:47
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Debian package related. Upgrade failed on a couple of circumstantes not taken into account in my upgrade script.	17:47
SquOnk	perlbot: And WebGUI's cache should go in /var/cache/webgui instead of /var/lib/webgui/cache	17:48
perlbot	SquOnk: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [and for the prize what] [and for the prize, what] [and played it in a pot of mac&cheese any day]	17:48
+perlDreamer	if we release 7.8.24.1, will there be a version number clash between your Debian and our release?	17:48
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Not at all.	17:49
SquOnk	7.8.24.1-1	17:49
SquOnk	That would be the version for the Debian package	17:49
SquOnk	If you send me a patch instead, the it will be 7.8.24-2	17:49
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, it won't be a single patch, it will be a series of git commits	18:01
+perlDreamer	can you handle that?	18:01
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Not sure, but I can try :)	18:01
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, I was able to format them as a series of patches, 1 per commit	18:06
+perlDreamer	apply them in order, patcha1, patcha2, etc	18:06
+perlDreamer	you know, you could fork WebGUI in github, it would make cherry picking the changes easier	18:07
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+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease: yo	18:19
+MrHairgrease	howdy	18:19
cj	moin moin	18:20
cj	scarlet is on the bus. making myaelf a bowl of porriage and reading a spec. good fun.	18:21
neil_	Hi	18:29
neil_	I have some perl dependencies that haven't installed thru perl testEnvironment.pl	18:31
neil_	is there a way of installing them manually	18:31
neil_	CHI, Net::Twitter,	18:32
neil_	PerlIO/eol	18:32
+perlDreamer	neil_: make sure you run the setenvironment in your current shell	18:33
+perlDreamer	and then do cpan Net::Twitter	18:33
+perlDreamer	cpan PerlIO::eol	18:34
+perlDreamer	and so on	18:34
+perlDreamer	CHI uses a module with broken dependencies	18:34
+perlDreamer	you'll need to install Test::Log::Dispatch and Test::Tester by hand before installing CHI	18:34
neil_	cd /data/wre/sbin . setenvironment.sh - is this where I should set setenvironment?	18:37
+perlDreamer	yes	18:38
+perlDreamer	you should run that before doing any WebGUI/WRE work	18:38
+perlDreamer	otherwise, lots of random, hard to trace bad things will happen	18:38
SDuensin	Howdy gang.	18:39
+perlDreamer	hey, SDuensin!	18:39
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Ok, hit me with the patches/commits	18:39
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, they're in your email box	18:39
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Not yet	18:40
* SDuensin suggests adding "(WRE)" to the prompt once setenvironment is run.		18:40
+perlDreamer	SquOnk: I sent it to your gmail account 40 minutes ago	18:40
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Just got in	18:41
neil_	I have one more issue. I raised the $Apache2::SizeLimit::MAX_UNSHARED_SIZE = 100000; but continue to get the same error.	18:41
neil_	Apache2::SizeLimit httpd process too big, exiting at SIZE=89372/100000 KB SHARE=2584/0 KB UNSHARED=86788/75000 KB REQUESTS=6 LIFETIME=0 seconds	18:42
+perlDreamer	you may need to raise it higher, neil_	18:42
cj	neil_: I fixed things up with `sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install CHI'` and friends	18:42
cj	ah, but perlDreamer already answered that	18:42
+perlDreamer	cj: cpan CHI is a shortcut for that	18:42
cj	that sounds new and fangled	18:42
cj	perlDreamer: would you review and accept a patch from me? :)	18:43
+perlDreamer	review: of course	18:43
+perlDreamer	acceptance is conditional ;)	18:43
cj	bah! :)	18:43
+perlDreamer	whathca got?	18:43
cj	let me see if I can figure out how to fork your codebase and put the patch under my account	18:44
+perlDreamer	alright	18:44
+perlDreamer	what's the patch for?	18:44
cj	in the meantime...	18:44
cj	http://www.colliertech.org/~cjac/tmp/c51fff17a7b0664e265bb5f016a3c6da8e24610e.diff	18:45
cj	the problem with CHI	18:45
cj	I submitted a patch to jon, but haven't heard back from him	18:46
cj	now that I can't threaten him with "I know where you live", I can't seem to get any of my patches approved.	18:46
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+perlDreamer	cj, we could work around the patch by putting dependencies into testEnvironment.pl to install the missing modules before they're needed	18:51
+perlDreamer	it would be a lot easier on users	18:51
+perlDreamer	and if adding Test::Differences is the patch, for sure we'll take that	18:51
+perlDreamer	Just let us know what to put in the changelog and credits file to note your contribution	18:51
cj	C.J. Adams-Collier <cjac@colliertech.org> 0xBA27A83C should be fine	18:52
cj	let me show that and put it up	18:52
+perlDreamer	what's the hex blurb after your email for?	18:53
cj	well, actually, just use the contents of that .diff file :)	18:53
cj	shorthand for http://keyserver.colliertech.org:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x8E562765BA27A83C	18:53
SquOnk	perlDreamer: GPG fingerprint probably	18:55
cj	what SquOnk said	18:56
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * raa96bb9 / (docs/credits.txt sbin/testEnvironment.pl): Add a dependency in testEnvironment.pl for Test::Differences. Thanks to C.J. Adams-Collier. - http://bit.ly/cX0uPS	19:00
+perlDreamer	any last second questions from the assembly before I go to the gym?	19:00
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * raf19044 / (docs/credits.txt sbin/testEnvironment.pl): Add a dependency in testEnvironment.pl for Test::Differences. Thanks to C.J. Adams-Collier. - http://bit.ly/a4hp0y	19:00
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@frodwith	installing the latest version (0.36) of CHI from cpan seems to barf at me about dotted version numbers. Anyone have any ideas why that would be?	20:53
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scrottie0	which version of perl are you running?	20:55
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scrottie0	a lot has happened with v-strings... v-string parsing, in a limited fashion, is core, again, but only in the context of version numbers in packages.	20:55
qwebirc94139	Help! I'm trying to load WebGUI manually on a Suse 11 server. I get the following error: Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','root',...) failed: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock' (2) at /data/wre/lib/WRE/Mysql.pm line 93 at ./wreconsole.pl line 1240	20:56
* perlDreamer is only running 0.34, frodwith		20:56
@frodwith	scrottie: 5.10. Probably time to upgrade, eh?	20:56
+perlDreamer	qwebirc94139: have you searched the wiki on plainblack for that problem, or the forums?	20:56
@frodwith	although I think this is the wre's perl.	20:57
+perlDreamer	or maybe Google?	20:57
qwebirc94139	ok, i'll try that	20:57
+perlDreamer	we're always happy to help, but you gotta meet us halfway ;)	20:57
scrottie	if CHI doesn't reject 5.10 outright, it should work with it.	20:59
scrottie	(or else it is a bug)	20:59
@frodwith	yeah, true enough.	20:59
+perlDreamer	SquOnk: any issue with the patches?	20:59
@frodwith	anyone with a wre sitting around brave enough to try upgrading CHI to see if it's just me?	21:00
+perlDreamer	frodwith, I can do that	21:00
+perlDreamer	let me fire up VirtualBox	21:00
@frodwith	thanks perlDreamer	21:01
+perlDreamer	anything to support your mad hackery, dude	21:01
Haarg	frodwith, what is the exact error you are seeing?	21:03
@frodwith	Couldn't load class (CHI::Driver) because: Invalid version format (dotted-decimal versions require at least three parts) at /Users/pdriver/perl5/lib/perl5/darwin-2level/version.pm line 194.	21:03
+perlDreamer	this is bad	21:04
+perlDreamer	I think installing CHI 0.36 sent my VM into a loop	21:05
+perlDreamer	nope, just resolving dependencies	21:05
+perlDreamer	frodwith, when are you seeing that error?	21:05
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+perlDreamer	It upgraded fine, which meant it ran tests with CHI::Driver in it	21:06
@frodwith	one sec, on the phone	21:06
Haarg	frodwith, what version of version.pm?	21:08
@frodwith	haarg, 0.82	21:08
@frodwith	perlDreamer: trying to do anything with CHI, or run the test suite	21:09
+perlDreamer	on the WRE, CentOS 5.5 it installed fine	21:09
@frodwith	okay, interesting. I'll have to dig some more in my particular setup then.	21:09
+perlDreamer	good hunting :)	21:09
+perlDreamer	SquOnk: some time, we should chat about strategic perl module usage. As we learn about new modules in WebGUI, maybe we should let you know early so that there's an easier time getting newer WebGUI's into newer Debians	21:15
neil_	perlDreamer: I tried installing perl modules like you suggested, cd /data/wre/sbin - . setenvironment.sh - cpan Cache::FastMmap, but it returned I need to use force.	21:33
+perlDreamer	neil_: one step at a time. Did you get mysql up and working?	21:34
neil_	mysql is already working	21:35
+perlDreamer	sorry, I'm mixing up users	21:36
+perlDreamer	try to find out why Cache::FastMMAP didn't install, if you're missing a prerequisite module, then forcing the install won't help	21:36
+danny_mk	preaction:http://openid.dbash.com/ test facebook at this site, I still need to do a few things but facebook is definitely working	21:46
@preaction	putting http://www.facebook.com into the openid field doesn't seem to do anything	21:46
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I'm going to look at the patches later. I have to pick up my kid at school now.	21:47
SquOnk	perlDreamer: And yes, it would be helpful to know about modules ahead of time :-)	21:47
+danny_mk	If you would like to try it out sign in here! Sign In	21:47
+perlDreamer	we'll try and get you a heads up	21:47
+danny_mk	click the sigin link	21:47
+perlDreamer	7.10 is supposed to be the last	21:47
+danny_mk	then select facebook as your provider	21:48
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I'll probably have a webgui8 package separate from webgui	21:48
SquOnk	perlDreamer: So we can have both in Debian... sort of "technology preview" :-)	21:48
+perlDreamer	that's less than optimal, but if you must	21:48
+perlDreamer	eventually WebGUI8 will be WebGUI	21:49
@preaction	danny_mk: janrain is the proxy for openid for facebook, it's not facebook itself providing openid	21:49
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Yes, and Debian has the means to accomplish that	21:49
+perlDreamer	so drawing a distinction like that can be dangerous	21:49
+perlDreamer	okey-dokey	21:49
+danny_mk	hold on	21:49
SquOnk	perlDreamer: What I think could prove useful is having PlainBlack official Debian packages.	21:50
+perlDreamer	what's involved in that?	21:50
SquOnk	perlDreamer: IF Squeeze releases with 7.8.24, THEN PlainBlack (or the WebGUI community) could setup a Debian repo	21:50
SquOnk	debian.webgui.org	21:50
SquOnk	perlDreamer: We could have packages there. Remember that Debian Stable only adds bugfixes.	21:51
SquOnk	perlDreamer: So, 7.9 and 7.9 won't make it into Squeeze, but into the next one.	21:51
+perlDreamer	That's a topic best brought up on the dev list	21:51
SquOnk	perlDreamer: If webgui.org provides packages (and possibly needed Perl modules not in Debian Stable) that allow running newer versions...	21:51
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Of course.	21:52
SquOnk	perlDreamer: There's the Debian Backport project that sort of does the same.	21:52
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cj	there's a fantsy tool to build a .deb from a CPAN module	21:52
SquOnk	cj: dh-make-perl	21:52
+danny_mk	preaction: you are correct, is that bad?	21:52
cj	yeah, that one	21:52
@preaction	danny_mk: no. as i said in PM, openid and facebook connect are mutually exclusive. openid has its use, and facebook connect has its use. they can both fit	21:53
@preaction	cj: we aren't a cpan module yet, but we're getting there	21:53
cj	I was thinking about lenny deps	21:54
SquOnk	cj: Lenny's perl is too old.	21:54
cj	I believe it ;) Squeeze has nearly all deps	21:54
SquOnk	cj: You can run 7.6 safely, but 7.7 on you need and updated Perl and soon other packages start to break	21:55
SquOnk	cj: Squeeze has everything needed to run 7.8, and even a 7.8.24 package.	21:55
SquOnk	cj: It will probably release with it too	21:55
cj	except CHI?	21:55
SquOnk	cj: But it doesn't have libchi-perl nor liblog-any-something...	21:55
SquOnk	cj: Those will be in Wheezy, and should be easily backported to Squeeze UNTIL Debian transitions to Perl 5.12	21:56
cj	Wheezy. I was wondering when he'd get his day in the sun.	21:56
+danny_mk	preaction: Alright, I will cleanup some issues and upload an update to the WebGUI site. The current version works with the latest version of webgui(7.9.15), I will make sure to make the distinction between JanRain connect service and ...	21:57
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@frodwith	upgrading to the latest Module::Load::Conditional fixed my problem.	22:41
+danny_mk	preaction: Does the WebGUI::Auth::Twitter module work?	22:42
@preaction	danny_mk: yes	22:44
+danny_mk	thanks	22:44
@preaction	it just works differently, you don't select it as the "Default Auth Module", you use the TwitterLogin macro	22:45
@preaction	auth modules don't need to be set as the default in order to work correctly anymore, you can pass the authType= as a query parameter to op=auth	22:45
+danny_mk	excellent, I will make a not of that	22:50
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qwebirc55331	has anyone come accross this error when setting up webgui "undefined symbol: rl_filename_rewrite_hook "	23:14
qwebirc55331	I get this when I run console.	23:14
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+danny_mk	preaction: During a new registeration "CreateAccount" I can't set the email field. I looked into WebGUI::Auth and I can't see anything that may prevent me from setting the email field. Clues???	23:49
@preaction	danny_mk: you mean during createAccountSave? are you sure $user is not Visitor?	23:50
+danny_mk	preaction: No, I mean during createAccount seet http://webgui.pastebin.com/DrPhJkbT	23:52
@preaction	uh, what is $vars->{profile}?	23:59
--- Day changed Fri Oct 08 2010
+danny_mk	is a hash I get back from the openid provider	00:01
@preaction	are you sure it has an email key?	00:01
@preaction	are you sure it's even being passed into that sub correctly?	00:02
+perlDreamer	write tests	00:02
+danny_mk	yes, I use $self->session->errorHandler->error(Dumper $vars->{profile}... to look at the values, it is definitely the email address	00:03
+danny_mk	Hmmm... I actuall set it to "value" => 'dan@nowhere.com' and it still does not set it in the form. Hmmm... I am a bit confused.	00:07
@preaction	try defaultValue instead maybe?	00:07
+danny_mk	OK, I will give that a try	00:09
@preaction	danny_mk: no, it's probably being overwritten by the superclass method at the bottom there	00:16
+danny_mk	yup, that is what I am thinking	00:16
+danny_mk	darn that would be so great if I could set it from the retrived openid profile	00:16
@preaction	you could. refactor the existing createAccount method in the superclass to get its variables from some other method (say, getRegisterFormVars) and then override that sub instead	00:19
@preaction	that's the kind of refactoring i was waiting until 8 to do, because WebGUI::FormBuilder is superior to WebGUI::Form	00:22
+perlDreamer	all the variables in createAccount are prefixed with create.form.profile	00:22
+danny_mk	well, I am waiting for 8 to get a better sense of direction	00:22
+danny_mk	perlDreamer: did not make a difference	00:24
@preaction	danny_mk: you don't need to use the superclass method at all, really	00:25
+danny_mk	OK, I will give that a try	00:25
scrottie	if you don't want to refactor, you could do something evil, like mix autobox::Attribute::Properties and Devel::Caller. caller_cv(1)->foo(10); # see the calling routine's $foo to 10	00:25
scrottie	er, set the	00:26
frodwith_	when I run t/Inbox.t more than once after a reset, it fails. Happening to anyone else?	00:28
+perlDreamer	frodwith_: which branch?	00:34
frodwith_	master	00:34
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+perlDreamer	it runs clean every other week	00:34
+perlDreamer	I'll try again real quick as a double check	00:34
+perlDreamer	what's the failure?	00:34
@frodwith	the messages don't seem to be getting deleted.	00:34
@frodwith	I runs clean after a reset	00:34
@frodwith	*it runs, too.	00:34
+perlDreamer	it expects to start with a clean inbox	00:35
+perlDreamer	so if some other test is leaking inbox notifications, that would cause it to fail	00:35
@frodwith	no, just running this one more than once causes it to fail	00:35
+perlDreamer	then it has a cleanup problem in itself	00:35
@frodwith	yes.	00:35
@frodwith	well, i just wanted to see if it was happening to someone else	00:35
@frodwith	or if it's a local problem of mine.	00:36
+perlDreamer	I'll try	00:37
+perlDreamer	Do you have a WebGUI VM to try stuff out on locally?	00:37
+perlDreamer	the newest one of SF was WRE 0.9.3 and 7.8.24 on it	00:37
@frodwith	no, don't have any vms	00:37
+perlDreamer	okay, on a back to back run, I get failures too	00:38
+perlDreamer	so it's not just you	00:38
@frodwith	k, thanks for verifying	00:38
+perlDreamer	I'll fix it with some appropriate background: http://blastr.com/2010/10/william-shatner-and-7-other-voices-read-poes-the-raven.php	00:38
@frodwith	Quoth the test harness: "# Looks like you failed 2 tests of 15."	00:40
+perlDreamer	ah, but if James Earl Jones is reading, what a failure it is	00:43
@frodwith	i'm digging the vincent price reading	00:45
@frodwith	I used to be able to recite this whole poem.	00:45
scrottie	... which is just another reason Dungeon Keeper II is the greatest game ever made.	00:45
+perlDreamer	frodwith, this is really weird	00:48
+perlDreamer	there's a cleanup method in WebGUI::Test just to do this	00:49
@frodwith	yeah, and it isn't working :-\|	00:49
+perlDreamer	ah, but if I inline the code, right in the test, it does	00:49
@frodwith	getMessagesForUser(admin) is returning an empty arrayref	00:49
@frodwith	....-really-	00:49
+perlDreamer	yeah	00:50
@frodwith	what do you mean inline it?	00:50
scrottie	I might have been the last one to touch that.	00:55
@frodwith	I knew it was your fault somehow.	00:55
@frodwith	Burn him!	00:55
+danny_mk	preaction: Well I had to copy a lot of the code from WebGUI::Auth::createAccount but I got it to work.	00:56
+perlDreamer	frodwith: I added this to the bottom of the test: http://gist.github.com/615994	01:04
+perlDreamer	and lo and behold, no more email messages	01:05
+perlDreamer	so something funny is happening	01:05
+perlDreamer	admin is admin is admin is userId 3	01:05
@frodwith	funny, that doesn't do it for me	01:05
@frodwith	or i don't think it does. i'll try again in a sec.	01:06
SquOnk	perlDreamer: All right... I applied the bunch. Some of then had to be fine tuned by hand...	01:08
+perlDreamer	SquOnk: it's to be expected, they're backported	01:09
+perlDreamer	but I'm sorry for the hassle	01:09
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Oh, don't worry, you've been very helpful.	01:09
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SquOnk	perlDreamer: Worst case scenario, I've learned a lot :-)	01:09
SquOnk	Teach something, learn something, be helpful... that's the purpose of life.	01:09
@frodwith	hmm, the sql that is generated by getMessagesForUser(3) returns me an empty set when I plug it into mysql directly	01:11
@frodwith	http://pastie.org/1206444	01:11
+perlDreamer	it needs a user object	01:11
@frodwith	well	01:12
@frodwith	i didn't pass it 3	01:12
+perlDreamer	getMessagesForUser(WebGUI::User->new($session,3));	01:12
@frodwith	i'm stepping through in the debugger	01:12
scrottie	that is terrible.	01:12
+perlDreamer	does it work if you do it in the test, frodwith?	01:12
@frodwith	do what in the test?	01:12
+perlDreamer	the cleanup	01:12
@frodwith	perlDreamer: yes, seems to	01:14
+perlDreamer	utterly whacky	01:14
@frodwith	maybe it has something to do with it being at END time? though I can't imagine what	01:15
+perlDreamer	me either	01:15
+perlDreamer	cleanupAdminInbox is being called	01:16
@frodwith	no, i put it in an END block	01:16
scrottie	I'd run the SQL but I don't think I have the same data as you do...? start knocking out where clause constraints until it starts returning data...?	01:16
@frodwith	still works	01:16
+perlDreamer	I mean, I can see it being called, so that isn't the issue	01:16
scrottie	ugh. doesn't DBI tear down stuff at END time?	01:17
scrottie	doing anythng that involved at END time is risky	01:17
@frodwith	scrottie: I slammed the inline code into an end block, and it's behaving fine	01:17
+perlDreamer	scrottie, it's been working for years	01:17
@frodwith	oh this is getting silly	01:18
+perlDreamer	okay, this is weird	01:18
@frodwith	even this works:	01:18
@frodwith	WebGUI::Test->addToCleanup(sub { $inbox->deleteMessagesForUser($admin) });	01:18
+perlDreamer	moving it to another location works too	01:18
@frodwith	....what?	01:18
+perlDreamer	take that call, and move it to the end of the test	01:18
+perlDreamer	you'll find it where $admin is created	01:18
+perlDreamer	if you move it, it cleans up fine	01:18
scrottie	END blocks run in reverse order as the parser encounters them, if memory serves.	01:19
@frodwith	I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.	01:19
+perlDreamer	scrottie, you should look at the test and cleanup	01:19
+perlDreamer	it's just 1 END block doing all the work	01:19
@frodwith	the crucial line it has to be after to work	01:23
@frodwith	is: WebGUI::Test->addToCleanup(@senders);	01:23
scrottie0	which .t is this again?	01:23
@frodwith	t/Inbox.t	01:23
+perlDreamer	that means that you can't remove a message when the sender no longer exists?	01:25
+perlDreamer	and, worse, you can't access a message when the sender no longer exists	01:26
@frodwith	cleanups happen in reverse order, so that means that if cleanupAdminInbox happens before the senders are cleaned up, it works.	01:26
+perlDreamer	since removeMessagesForUser is driven by getMessagesForUser	01:26
+perlDreamer	frodwith, right, but it should work in any order	01:26
@frodwith	ahhhh, it's not working because the senders are gone?	01:27
+perlDreamer	that's what I'm thinking, and it's really, really bad	01:27
+perlDreamer	since, like I said, removeMessagesFU is driven by getMessagesFU	01:27
+perlDreamer	which is used in other places	01:27
+perlDreamer	and if getMessage doesn't work either	01:27
+perlDreamer	then now we've got leaky, broken inbox messages to clean up	01:28
@frodwith	JOIN users on users.userId = ibox.sentBy	01:28
@frodwith	eh heh, eh heh	01:28
@frodwith	that's an inner join, folks.	01:28
@frodwith	we have a winner.	01:28
+perlDreamer	I so need to take a basic SQL class	01:28
+perlDreamer	we need to do a different join to fix this, which one is it?	01:28
@frodwith	outer	01:29
scrottie	makes sense. when I touched it last, it was cluttering stuff up with undeletable messages because messages had been sent to groups that people were no longer a member of and thus the SQL couldn't relate to.	01:29
+perlDreamer	well, now we know what kind of tests to write	01:29
scrottie	I should have fixed it harder.	01:29
@frodwith	well, not sure if an outer join would actually fix it	01:29
@frodwith	you'd just get some NULLs is all	01:29
scrottie	... which would break other things. but it's reasonable to expect that you could get messages back from people who no longer exist. doesn't it copy certain bits of info?	01:30
scrottie0	no.	01:31
+perlDreamer	scrottie, the good news is that the join was there before your fix	01:31
+perlDreamer	the bad news is that there aren't any tests showing that your fix works	01:31
@frodwith	i'm having deja vu about running into this before	01:31
@frodwith	...but i have no idea if it's deja vu or if I actually did	01:31
+perlDreamer	listen to some more Vincent Price, it will help clear that up	01:32
+perlDreamer	either that, or you'll get some gnarly goose bumps	01:32
@frodwith	scrottie: yeah, it's reasonable that you'd get back a message with like, UNKNOWN for the user's name or something	01:33
@frodwith	that'd be.... the /right/ thing to do	01:33
@frodwith	i think	01:33
scrottie0	it's kinda strange that someone could send you a message, change their first+last name, then have the recipient read the message and see the change. usually an email message is a snapshot of data.	01:34
@frodwith	true enough.	01:34
+perlDreamer	life will be easier in 8, I think, since all that stuff gets inlined into the users table	01:34
@frodwith	no, that join would still fail	01:34
+perlDreamer	fewer joins	01:34
@frodwith	this particular join, i mean.	01:34
scrottie0	I don't know if it would be out of line to copy critical bits of data plus have the UUID of the sender and recipient.	01:34
scrottie0	then fall back on the copy of the UUID doesn't relate.	01:34
+perlDreamer	it would be out of line	01:35
scrottie0	coalesce.	01:35
@frodwith	just copy the uuid for reference and don't use it.	01:35
+perlDreamer	it should use objects, instead of table joins	01:35
scrottie0	yeah. or that.	01:35
@frodwith	userid blah, whose name at the time was Schlomi Fish	01:35
+perlDreamer	then,if the object doesn't exist, you say "UNKONWN"	01:35
scrottie0	ugh. again, I'm of two minds here.	01:35
scrottie0	a relational database system should not let you delete records that are referenced by other records.	01:36
@frodwith	well perlDreamer, if you want to do that you could smash the sql into behaving that way	01:36
@frodwith	with a different join	01:36
+perlDreamer	no, I mean with no joins at all	01:36
scrottie0	and it's kind of dumb to use a relational database system but never actually relate with it... "it should use objects, instead of table joins"	01:36
+perlDreamer	try to instance the user with WebGUI::User and ask for the name	01:36
scrottie0	if you can't table join in an RBDMs, then you might as well be using CouchDB or something stupid	01:36
@frodwith	right, you could do that	01:36
@frodwith	but that's silly when you can do it in sql	01:36
scrottie0	right.	01:37
+perlDreamer	scrottie0, and you pick up tons of performance	01:37
scrottie0	yeah. we're doing lots of queries. if we related more, we'd do fewer queries.	01:37
+perlDreamer	we used to do table joins to find out if assets are packages	01:37
+perlDreamer	dropping the join, and asking the object directly was a huge speed boost	01:37
@frodwith	well, we are talking about mysql here.	01:37
+perlDreamer	from several seconds, down to a hundred ms	01:38
scrottie0	oh, boy.	01:38
@frodwith	also, we don't tend to be sql experts, so our sql isn't always that fast.	01:38
+perlDreamer	it'd be nice to have a SQL expert on the team	01:39
@frodwith	it's waaaaaay too late for that	01:39
@frodwith	but yes, it would be nice	01:39
@frodwith	and I guess I mean specifically, a mysql guru	01:40
scrottie0	ugh	01:40
@frodwith	who knows what's fast and what's slow in all the different versions of mysql	01:40
@frodwith	cause yes, it changes	01:40
@frodwith	-_-	01:40
+perlDreamer	of course it does, just like perl, and everything else out there	01:41
+perlDreamer	preaction: y'all better wake up and back log before I get out my text editor	01:41
scrottie0	I thought you were talking about an Oracle DBA, who would push lots of processing to the back end in stored procedures, normalize stuff, get good constraints and triggers going... but no, you want a trike racer.	01:41
@preaction	for what?	01:41
+perlDreamer	I want to get rid of the table joins to find usernames in Inbox	01:41
@frodwith	scrottie: then we'd need a real database	01:42
@frodwith	like postgres	01:42
@frodwith	or....oracle... sheds a tear	01:42
+perlDreamer	frodwith: no hijacking	01:42
@preaction	for what purpose? did you run benchmarks on it?	01:42
+perlDreamer	preaction, if a user has been deleted, you can no longer get messages from that user	01:42
+perlDreamer	since the join on user and userProfileData fails	01:42
scrottie0	the way things are heading, I think we should really seriously consider a key/value store rather than DBIx::Class plus a relational database and having loads of fat and bloat that we're getting no benefit from.	01:43
+perlDreamer	we should be asking a User object to do that kind of stuff	01:43
@frodwith	scrottie: I think that's a fantastic idea.	01:43
scrottie0	if we're going to ask the User object to do this stuff rather than trying to translate high level concepts into relations, then we should be smart about it.	01:43
+perlDreamer	unfortunately, it would break API	01:43
+perlDreamer	which means we can't	01:43
+perlDreamer	dang it!	01:43
@frodwith	database isn't api	01:43
+perlDreamer	getMessagesForUser would no longer return a hash with the username in it	01:44
@frodwith	falls over laughing	01:44
+perlDreamer	so any custom code that depends on that would fail	01:44
+perlDreamer	but we can do it in 8	01:44
@frodwith	perlDreamer: have it return 'deleted' or something	01:44
@frodwith	that's a name. My best friend is named deleted.	01:44
scrottie0	I think I mentioned that I've decided that the correct way to write Perl Web apps is in Postgres/PL Perl stored procedures. all Perl does is diddle the database state and propogate desired side-effects from that. the database should be king.	01:45
scrottie0	people are going to send hate mail and then purge their accounts.	01:45
scrottie0	their own accounts.	01:45
@frodwith	if the data is what's important	01:45
+perlDreamer	I'm going to try the OUTER JOIN to see if it helps	01:45
@frodwith	but yeah scrottie, that's especially sane	01:46
@frodwith	hang on a sec there ol' perldreamer ol' buddy	01:46
* perlDreamer hangs		01:46
@frodwith	http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/10/a-visual-explanation-of-sql-joins.html	01:46
@frodwith	figure out which flavor you want	01:46
@frodwith	first	01:46
scrottie0	seriously though (or rather, pragmatically though), before we do DBIx::Class, I'd like to take some time to investigate prospects of making WebGUI::Core not require SQL but having it work with a SQL backend if people use WebGUI:: modules that require it.	01:47
+perlDreamer	mmm, LEFT OUTER JOIN it is	01:47
scrottie0	or when someone deletes their account, it could delete all of the email they've sent and the accounts of everyone they've sent email to, recursive.	01:48
@frodwith	scrottie: as thing stand, we unfortunately treat database structure like it's api. Such a change would break everyone forever and there would be much anger and gnashing of teeth.	01:48
Haarg	kind of	01:49
scrottie0	hrm? making a small core of WebGUI agnostic to whether it's using a key/value store or a real database but allowing it to work with a real database?	01:49
Haarg	it also gets changed often enough breaking everything anyway	01:49
scrottie0	there's already talk of making a small core. I'm not sure how much of the core stuff does anything relational right now anyway.	01:50
scrottie0	and that's largely a question of what's considered core.	01:50
scrottie0	and the act of investigating it would not cause user gnashing of teeth.	01:50
@frodwith	true enough	01:50
scrottie0	frodwith gnashing of teeth, perhaps.	01:50
@preaction	WebGUI::Asset, WebGUI::User, WebGUI::Workflow, WebGUI::Admin and anything those absolutely rely on.	01:51
scrottie0	and then people could cpanm WebGUI::Lite and have it fall back on whatever stupid thing they have handy, up to and including BerkeleyDb.	01:51
@frodwith	scrottie, I think it would be cool as all get out to work with a nonrelational store, just because I've done very little with them and I love trying new things. But I am not a sane person, which is why I don't make these kinds of decisions. My teeth would not gnash at all.	01:52
scrottie0	WebGUI::Asset doesn't really do anything relational other than merge together a bunch of tables. if the object initializes itself from two or three or five tables, it could do that manually without any RDBMS features just by pulling in the values from the correct records in the list of tables defining that asset type.	01:53
@frodwith	I've given up trying to be objective. I just go "oOOH SHINY" and let other people worry about it.	01:53
* perlDreamer rethinks WebGUI::Fork		01:53
@frodwith	rofl	01:53
scrottie0	what's shiney?	01:53
@frodwith	all the tests are still passing!	01:53
+perlDreamer	yes	01:54
scrottie0	shiny	01:54
+perlDreamer	but we don't test the UI	01:54
@frodwith	didn't you see my veedeo?	01:54
@frodwith	UI works great ;)	01:54
+perlDreamer	it was photoshopped	01:54
+perlDreamer	wasn't tested on the WRE	01:54
@frodwith	was so	01:54
@frodwith	wasn't tested -off- the wre though	01:54
+perlDreamer	Came out on an even numbered day	01:54
scrottie0	fwiw, shiny means nothing to me. I'm like a cockroach, entirely motivated by avoiding everything other than safe little corners.	01:54
@frodwith	like my polar opposite	01:55
scrottie0	frodwith, your video rocks my socks.	01:55
+perlDreamer	it wouldn't be prudent to add that code at this juncture	01:55
@frodwith	bizzaro-with, if you will	01:55
@frodwith	which code?	01:55
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Fork	01:55
@frodwith	...! how come? :( :(	01:55
scrottie0	DBIx::Class or something else should probably be WebGUI 9.	01:55
+perlDreamer	That last code, with "prudent" is an old anti-Bush quote	01:55
@preaction	scrottie0: if i have my druthers, it will be, along with all the API unfucking i miss this time around	01:56
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scrottie0	too significant of a change (regardless of the change) too soon winds up being something like Perl threads... something that haunts you for a long, long time.	01:57
scrottie0	er, regardless of the size	01:57
+perlDreamer	like WebGUI 6	01:57
scrottie0	"hey, I realized how I can kind of throw threads in here real quick without much work!" => beginning of an endless world of hurt	01:57
@preaction	and i've heard that Fey::ORM is poised to take over DBIC's spot as ORM Of Kings	01:58
@frodwith	who told you that, rolksy?	01:58
@frodwith	rolsky, too.	01:58
* scrottie0 sighs		01:59
@preaction	JT's been hyping it up, i personally have no opinion outside of DBIC doesn't play nice with Moose unless you force it to, with VIOLENCE	01:59
@frodwith	define "play nice"	01:59
+perlDreamer	ooh, Christopher Walken has sound effects even	02:00
scrottie0	with DBIC, you wind up with a scism of which object represents something... the DBIC ResultSet or some class you've created as a wrapper around that.	02:00
scrottie0	you wind up passing around and accepting ResultSet objects not wanting to make a wrapper around them, or you wind up with parallel inheritance hierarchies, and then you have to change what's passed around because you need to add active logic....	02:00
scrottie0	by comparison, Postgres/PL is clean, concise and sane.	02:01
SquOnk	scrottie0: Indeed	02:01
SquOnk	scrottie0: Not to mention blazing fast compared to doing stuff on the client side.	02:01
scrottie0	I need to STHeckU for a while.	02:02
@frodwith	I need to go for a walk and play a nice relaxing game of go.	02:03
scrottie0	the Moose objects serializing themselves directly could be a necessary comprimise, though.	02:03
scrottie0	frodwith, you ever play any Steve Jackson Games stuff? not that it bares any resemblence	02:04
scrottie0	resemblance	02:05
@frodwith	no, 'tis it?	02:05
scrottie0	uh... most of their stuff occupies a space between Milton Bradly style games and full-on turn based strategy Warhammer style stuff	02:05
scrottie0	I'm just always looking for suckers to play Illuminati against. that's all ;)	02:06
@frodwith	hehe	02:06
scrottie0	er, WITH, I mean WITH.	02:06
@preaction	i like Hackers, but i never have enough players for that one	02:07
scrottie0	SJG Hacker? nice. based on the Illuminati game mechanics, actually, but with enough variation to be a nice change	02:07
@preaction	hmm.. then perhaps i'll have to try illuminati, haven't actually seen/played it yet	02:08
scrottie0	I have an old COMET/JS/HTML multiplayer server I wrote years ago that just knows how to operate the tiles... it shuffles the deck, lays the cards out fanned out, knows how to flip cards for one person or everyone, gives new random values to any die that you move, keeps a log of things done, lets you move cards	02:08
scrottie0	er fanned out face down	02:09
scrottie0	some day, I want to try to make it into a Facebook game	02:09
scrottie0	SJG is forward thinking enough that they might let me get away with it if I could prove that one player in each game owned a real life boxed copy of the game	02:10
scrottie0	al'right. some day when we're bored, I'll fire the thing up.	02:10
scrottie0	or if nothing else, next WUG.	02:11
+perlDreamer	LOJFTW	02:13
scrottie0	LOJ?	02:14
+perlDreamer	LEFT OUTER JOIN	02:14
scrottie0	oh, heh	02:14
scrottie0	yeah. when it comes down to it, you have two choices... triggers assuring data integrity or else left joining all of the time and dealing with nulls.	02:15
+perlDreamer	in this case, it's only a username, so NULL is cool	02:15
scrottie0	New message from NULL: Your dumb!!111	02:15
+perlDreamer	ah, but users can't delete themselves	02:16
+perlDreamer	only deactivate	02:16
scrottie0	alright, alright.	02:16
+perlDreamer	everyone knows that deleting users is not the best of ideas	02:16
+perlDreamer	but, Posts store usernames	02:16
+perlDreamer	so maybe it's not such a bad idea	02:16
scrottie0	still, standing in MySQL land feels very conspicuous.	02:16
+perlDreamer	but who wants to write the upgrade sub to do that task?	02:16
+perlDreamer	it would take days on some really big sites	02:17
@frodwith	left outer join is MUCH easier	02:17
@frodwith	perlDreamer++ # first virtue of perl programmers	02:17
+perlDreamer	which virtue is the one that makes you write tests?	02:18
+perlDreamer	must be hubris?	02:18
@preaction	laziness	02:19
@frodwith	tests are laziness	02:19
@frodwith	if you automate the tests, you don't have to do them manually	02:19
scrottie	impatience. you want to know the moment it starts working so you can stop working on it.	02:19
scrottie	at least, test-before-you-code is impatience.	02:19
@preaction	no, it's hubris, you can brag that you have a rock-solid codebase because your tests say so	02:19
+perlDreamer	no, that's foolishness	02:20
+perlDreamer	everyone knows that tests don't guarantee solidity	02:20
+perlDreamer	just look at Inbox.pm...	02:20
+perlDreamer	:/	02:20
+perlDreamer	^_^	02:20
+perlDreamer	@;=	02:20
+perlDreamer	and whatever other 3character frodwithian punctuations are appropriate	02:20
@preaction	tests guarantee against regression though. "that's right, see this bug that got fixed? it'll stay fixed mfer"	02:20
@frodwith	Frodwithian puncuations!? >:-\|	02:21
+perlDreamer	don't make me go through the IRC logs to pull them out	02:22
@frodwith	@;= looks like an illithid	02:22
@frodwith	a winking illithid	02:22
@frodwith	I will freely admit to using ^_^ and -_- more than my fair share. I like them.	02:23
+perlDreamer	Isn't Cthulu an illithid?	02:23
@frodwith	nooo, although they're kind of similar	02:23
@frodwith	illithids are probably inspired by lovecraft. But you'll have to ask Mr. Gygax to make sure	02:24
@frodwith	and he's dead	02:24
@frodwith	so you'll never know.	02:24
+perlDreamer	JT met Mr. Gygax	02:24
+perlDreamer	such thought gives me pause	02:24
+perlDreamer	since JT has met me as well	02:24
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+perlDreamer	now, the question remains	02:32
+perlDreamer	how do we cleanup the messy inbox?	02:32
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SDuensin	FrIdAy!	17:08
+bartjol	and my fathers birthday...	17:20
cj	moin moin	17:21
SDuensin	cool	17:21
cj	happy birthday to your dad ;)	17:21
SDuensin	Free cake. :-)	17:21
+bartjol	merci	17:23
+bartjol	off to buy him a present	17:24
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SDuensin	Ok, that's interesting. Learned something new... Seems newer browsers don't draw boxes around images contained in hrefs anymore.	18:03
cj	hey frodwith. ltns	18:12
cj	sduensin: hmmm... img border i still default 1px afaict	18:14
SDuensin	In Chrome, no borders. IE, borders.	18:14
cj	css reset ftw	18:15
SDuensin	hehe	18:15
SDuensin	I just set 'em all to 0.	18:15
cj	http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/css/reset/	18:16
cj	(eric meyer)++	18:17
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cj	alright...	18:36
+danny_mk	I saw the question on a website yesterday about webgui 8 and not using an ORM. Did that question ever get answered?	18:38
+perlDreamer	danny_mk: which question?	18:39
+perlDreamer	some version of WebGUI 8 will use an ORM, but not 8.0	18:39
+danny_mk	Does webgui 8 use an ORM?	18:39
+perlDreamer	yes, and no	18:39
+danny_mk	ah, there you go.	18:40
+perlDreamer	there's WebGUI::Crud, but it's deprecated	18:40
+perlDreamer	and it will be removed from WebGUI 8 here pretty quickly	18:40
+danny_mk	Why not something like: http://search.cpan.org/~frew/DBIx-Class-0.08123/lib/DBIx/Class.pm used in Catalyst	18:41
+perlDreamer	oh, that's easy	18:41
+perlDreamer	not enough programmers, and not enough time	18:41
+danny_mk	LOL	18:41
+perlDreamer	seriously	18:41
+danny_mk	OK, good answer	18:41
+perlDreamer	plans for WebGUI 8 were literally cut in half	18:41
+perlDreamer	people signed up for stuff, then didn't follow through	18:41
+perlDreamer	so 8 had to be way cut back	18:42
+danny_mk	well, I have my hands full with the Auth::OpenId module, otherwise I would help	18:42
+perlDreamer	8.0 was supposed to have Template::Toolkit, DBIxC, new Auth, tons of stuff	18:42
+perlDreamer	it's really sad	18:42
+danny_mk	I would be willing to work with a new Auth but I need some direction	18:43
+danny_mk	I really do not like spending hours coding to have someone say, well we are going to scrap that idea for xxx...	18:43
+perlDreamer	yeah, I don't think preaction has even had the time to define the new API	18:44
+perlDreamer	didn't he send you some slides yesterday with current plans?	18:44
+danny_mk	yes, however there is still no "defined" way of doing Auth	18:44
+perlDreamer	what do you mean by "defined"?	18:47
+danny_mk	I like the way Catalyst does security, maybe I will look into that and suggest a similar approach to preaction	18:49
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@preaction	perlDreamer: also because of Plain Black cutting its dev staff in half is the main reason why we couldn't follow through	19:03
+perlDreamer	yeah, that too	19:06
@preaction	whenever we get around to adding a DSL for Assets, it's probably going to look like Dancer	19:07
+perlDreamer	we're going rewrite Assets again, from Moose to Dancer?	19:08
@preaction	ORM haven't decided yet, but Fey::ORM seems nice	19:08
@preaction	no, the DSL would just be a layer over existing API, like it should be	19:08
cj	since you're already using Moose, DBIx::Class seems like a pretty popular option	19:14
Haarg	DBIx::Class doesn't use Moose though	19:17
Haarg	and things get angry when you try to combine them	19:18
cj	oh? I thought I heard that the most recent version did. I would believe that I'm making things up, though ;)	19:27
Haarg	afaik they've wanted to go to moose for a while but it is very problematic to do so	19:28
cj	ah. I guess I'm behind the times ;)	19:29
cj	alright. I'm going to pack up my office and head to the ferry. It's the monthly hamateur radio society meeting today.	19:32
cj	http://paste2.org/p/1026059 in case anyone cares :)	19:34
Haarg	yeah, i guess they do work together most of the time actually. however some DBIx::Class extensions don't play nice.	19:36
Haarg	but the one specific example of that i have is because the DBIC extension is kind of broken in its own way	19:39
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@preaction	http://gist.github.com/617157 <- is this too much evil for JS to handle?	20:22
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@preaction	so i'm writing a new asset search API, what should I call it? WebGUI::Search::Asset? that would allow WebGUI::Search::User and later move common things into WebGUI::Search once we can deprecate and remove the old busted joint	22:48
@preaction	new API will use Search::QueryParser	22:49
@preaction	or i could just not create the new API and just leave it in WebGUI::Admin for now	22:49
@preaction	but it'll be so much nicer than what we currently have...	22:49
+danny_mk	I like the WebGUI::Search::Asset namespace, it makes it obvious	22:53
@preaction	okay, i'll add that refactoring onto my stack... which is now growing uncontrollably...	22:57
+danny_mk	join the club, I have to provide data to my boss multiple times before he acknowledges that I did something he asked	22:59
@preaction	heh, only difference is i am the boss here ;)	23:01
+danny_mk	EVERYBODY has a boss	23:09
+danny_mk	well, unless you own your own business	23:10
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+danny_mk	preaction: can you send me the auth presentation again? I lost the link/fiel	23:27
@preaction	http://www.plainblack.com/uploads/bf/db/bfdb9f76a51fdb987b2152a0df70fb05/Auth-API-Changes.pdf	23:27
@preaction	the new() and saveParams() changes haven't been done yet. saveParams() should probably call a new method, update(), that does the actual work	23:28
@preaction	hell, with that, we could even not break that API, and so the only API that breaks is new()	23:31
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+danny_mk	alright, I got what I need. Have a good weekend.	00:15
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+perlDreamer	PayDrivers are all converted to not use Class::InsideOut any longer	00:22
+perlDreamer	that leaves shipping drivers, and Crud	00:22
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3af8037 / (15 files in 8 dirs): Merge branch 'PayDriver_cio' into WebGUI8 (+22 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/cbdOVi	00:23
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3f17369 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Remove debug code from the Thingy. Fixes bug #11903 - http://bit.ly/aFfI4G	00:26
CIA-61	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r70d69c6 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Remove debug code from the Thingy. Fixes bug #11903 - http://bit.ly/cGRHQx	00:27
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SDuensin	Good morning.	16:28
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+bartjol	howdy	16:34
SDuensin	Oh hell. I just remembered that my bug tracker is down and I'm about to embark on code. Nuts.	16:36
+bartjol	ah, it is monday	16:40
SDuensin	Extremely so.	16:41
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+bartjol	alreday a cj and/or scrottie?	17:35
+bartjol	already	17:35
+bartjol	preaction?	17:49
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+bartjol	hey	17:49
+bartjol	just one of the guys I might need	17:50
+perlDreamer	talk to me, bartjol!	17:51
+bartjol	sorry, I wanna do it private	17:51
+perlDreamer	so how's the house doing these days, bartjol?	17:56
+bartjol	well, I tiled the toilet	17:57
+perlDreamer	wow	18:00
+perlDreamer	You Dutch people are hardcore	18:00
+perlDreamer	we usually buy out toilets made of porcelain	18:00
+bartjol	....	18:00
+perlDreamer	I didn't know y'all built your own out of tile	18:00
+bartjol	yeah, we're really hardcore	18:11
+bartjol	delft-blue offcourse	18:11
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+bartjol	off to gut some fish	18:26
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neil_	How can I get the WRE to start at OS boot-up?	18:31
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elnino	is tavisto around?	18:33
+perlDreamer	neil_: there are instructions on how to set that up in the README file for the WRE	18:40
+perlDreamer	elnino: no tavisto yet this morning	18:41
+perlDreamer	I've heard he's been ill.	18:41
elnino	bummer.	18:41
elnino	thanks.	18:41
+perlDreamer	what do you need?	18:42
elnino	oh. I was just wondering if you ugys support passthru urls on your $25/month hosting.	18:42
elnino	I have about 600 html pages I don't want to port.	18:42
+perlDreamer	you can also ask jamie that question	18:43
elnino	what's his handle?	18:43
+perlDreamer	jamie	18:44
elnino	=)	18:44
+perlDreamer	he reads email	18:44
elnino	oh.	18:44
elnino	k	18:44
elnino	thanks.	18:45
* jigou thinks perlDreamer is too lively for a Monday morning		18:47
* perlDreamer has to get up early to take the kiddos to school		18:47
+perlDreamer	it will wear off soon, though	18:47
jigou	I hear that, my friend!	18:48
+perlDreamer	like now...	19:17
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cj	moin moin	19:55
scrottie	hey cj	19:57
scrottie	I mean, hey cj.	19:57
cj	isn't that what you said?	20:06
+perlDreamer	he forgot the punctuation	20:06
scrottie	"hey cj" sounds like "oh, you're here, I want something from you". "hey cj." is "oh, you're here, hello".	20:13
@preaction	that's a lot of meaning for such a small group of pixels	20:14
scrottie	"hey cj," means "oh, you're here, I want something from you so urgently that I'm going to mash enter to get my message across in chunks in hopes that you'll see it before you walk over to the fridge and start drinking from the milk carton".	20:17
+perlDreamer	I thought that was "hey cj!"	20:17
scrottie	no, "hey cj!" means "I'm glad you're here cj, because the cool level just went up two notches".	20:18
+perlDreamer	are you going to tell us about the other punction characters too, or are you going to make us drag it out of you?	20:19
scrottie	"hey cj*" means "good to see you cj, but see the notes at the bottom of the page for reasons and situations why and wherein it may not be good to see you".	20:20
+perlDreamer	preaction: did you know that we could save 2 table joins in the inbox by storing the sender's name, instead of their userId, like the Posts do?	20:40
@preaction	but what happens when their name changes?	20:40
+perlDreamer	the same thing that happens with a Post	20:41
+perlDreamer	their name, at the time it was sent, is valid	20:41
@preaction	so, "nothing"	20:42
+perlDreamer	yes	20:42
@preaction	so no way to figure out who sent it if they change their name after they send it	20:42
+perlDreamer	right	20:42
@preaction	sounds like a fun way to spam people	20:42
+perlDreamer	maybe we could store both	20:42
+perlDreamer	but still avoid joining userProfileData and users just to get their name	20:43
@preaction	why does the API method return user information anyway? why does it assume that I care about the user information?	20:43
+perlDreamer	getMessagesForUser returns hashes of data, not objects	20:43
@preaction	and does that method join other tables? why?	20:45
+perlDreamer	that's the one that joins userProfileData and users, to create the sending user's name	20:46
@preaction	right, but why does it need to? why does it assume i'm going to use that information? doesn't getMessagesForUser have other purposes than displaying all the messages for the user?	20:47
@preaction	i could just be counting them. i could want to delete them. in either case i don't care who sent them	20:47
@preaction	but i realize that we can't change the API method, i'm just trying to impress that the API is wrong here	20:47
@preaction	it's trying to do too much, and performance suffers because of it	20:47
scrottie	is firstName, lastName guaranteed to be unique?	20:48
@preaction	no	20:48
@preaction	username is, userId is, but username can change. userId will not.	20:48
* scrottie nods		20:48
@preaction	alias is, but it is designed to change	20:48
+perlDreamer	so, we can change it in 8?	20:48
@preaction	we should, yes, and any related problems with API methods joining unnecessarily	20:49
+perlDreamer	I'll file a ticket for that	20:49
@preaction	i like how DBIC does it: it doesn't join by default, but you can ask it to if you know that you're going to use the relationship's information	20:49
+perlDreamer	Fey::ORM works similarly?	20:52
@preaction	that i don't know	20:55
@preaction	probably, it's a good design imho	20:55
@preaction	oh, it also does a join if you try to add a constraint on the relationship's info, of course	20:55
@preaction	but it does not assume that you're going to use it if it doesn't absolutely know you're going to use it	20:56
scrottie	does Fey::ORM have the DBIx::Class problem where your data is in one object and your business logic in another unless you subclass and extend ResultSet objects which also seems dirty?	20:58
@preaction	hope not, but dunno	20:59
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rd2fac1e / (2 files in 2 dirs): Manually remove messages for deleted users. Fixes bug #11908. - http://bit.ly/bB3Ko2	21:08
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r9a53966 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Inbox.pm t/Inbox.t): Be able to get messages from users who are deleted. Fixes bug #11909. - http://bit.ly/9wnZ0P	21:08
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rece4bff / lib/WebGUI/Inbox/Message.pm : Short circuit the instancation of a Message earlier. - http://bit.ly/daw8oN	21:08
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf90a3f7 / (3 files in 2 dirs): Manually remove messages for deleted users. Fixes bug #11908. - http://bit.ly/dmpVGc	21:10
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7d71a5d / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Inbox.pm t/Inbox.t): Be able to get messages from users who are deleted. Fixes bug #11909. - http://bit.ly/dpXQ6Z	21:10
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8181390 / lib/WebGUI/Inbox/Message.pm : Short circuit the instancation of a Message earlier. - http://bit.ly/9pu2mN	21:10
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CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r25a278c / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a form injection problem with the EMS. Addresses bug #11773. - http://bit.ly/97bz8j	23:12
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0028cd6 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix a potential SQL injection issue with Thingy. - http://bit.ly/9taV0F	23:12
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CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc50688f / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.10.2-7.10.3.pl : Use the WebGUI::Inbox module to build objects. - http://bit.ly/d3Hbvs	23:13
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r106fcae / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a form injection problem with the EMS. Addresses bug #11773. - http://bit.ly/8X6cbl	23:13
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra41ae97 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix a potential SQL injection issue with Thingy. - http://bit.ly/bUE4VP	23:13
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8561cc9 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add a height parameter to the LI style inside the Carousel loop. Fixes bug #11906 - http://bit.ly/dbjzcx	23:41
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc46685a / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add a height parameter to the LI style inside the Carousel loop. Fixes bug #11906 - http://bit.ly/ai10Bo	23:42
--- Day changed Tue Oct 12 2010
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r496b34a / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move package to correct location. - http://bit.ly/cswjie	00:07
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CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r0cd851d / (3 files in 2 dirs): search completed (+17 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/dhw5sM	00:42
@preaction	i finally get to move on to something else! yay!	00:45
@preaction	test failures!	00:45
scrottie	are there success reports with the WebGUI8 admin floating around?	00:49
scrottie	(hadn't heard any before but that doesn't mean they weren't there)	00:49
cj	it's a new version! nobody's had time yet to tell you how awesome it is.	00:52
+perlDreamer	preaction, in general I don't advocate following success with failure, but in this case I'll make an exception	00:55
@preaction	cj: scrottie's computer mangles my beautiful javascript/css and he seems to think that's MY fault :'(	00:56
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cj	preaction: I always have to question channels where the MITM is scrottie	01:51
scrottie	well, if the admin works for someone else, they can test other changes for me.	01:57
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+bartjol	khenn?	14:25
@khenn	hey bart	14:52
@khenn	here now	14:52
+bartjol	hey	14:56
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+bartjol	I replaced your key files	16:02
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cj	heya bartjol	16:29
+bartjol	hi	16:30
+bartjol	what's up, I do see you logged in	16:30
cj	indeed. often when I run a command, I am not returned to the bash prompt	16:31
SDuensin	ILoveMyJobILoveMyJobILoveMyJob... Morning!	16:31
cj	haha. g'morning, SDuensin	16:31
+bartjol	morning	16:31
+bartjol	eeeh	16:31
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SDuensin	When WebGUI is running, what kind of environment does it have? I'm trying to execute swfcombine (that is in my path) and it's not finding it.	18:03
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+perlDreamer	preaction: need to chat with you about a bugfix sometime today before the release	18:28
+perlDreamer	The bug is http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11900	18:29
+perlDreamer	and the cause is that Workflow Activities cannot be set to the empty string.	18:29
+perlDreamer	it's explicitly coded in ->new that if it's undefined, or '', then you get the defaultValue instead	18:30
+perlDreamer	the Workflow form plugin uses '' to indicate "keep on going"	18:30
+perlDreamer	for RequestApprovalForVersionTag, the default value of doOnDeny is Unlock and Notify, so it can't be set to "Continue with this workflow".	18:31
+perlDreamer	it's not a problem for doOnApprove, since it's defaultValue is '', and there's no fallback for that case.	18:31
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neil_	Can I develop a site under a different domain and edit the .conf later in WRE	18:36
+perlDreamer	yes, you'll also want to change the Company URL in the Settings	18:41
+perlDreamer	and you'll need to update the files in /data/wre/etc that configure Apache for the site	18:42
+perlDreamer	and then, of course, you'll have to restart modperl, modproxy and spectre for the changes to take effect.	18:45
neil_	Is this the simplest way?	18:48
+perlDreamer	that's the only way	18:49
neil_	thank you.	18:49
SDuensin	Anyone know offhand what DOCUMENT_ROOT is when WebGUI is running?	18:51
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, isn't that supposed to be set in the Apache config file?	18:53
+perlDreamer	to something like /data/domains/mydomainname.com/public or whatever?	18:53
SDuensin	It's in the environment. So, uh, maybe.	18:53
@preaction	perlDreamer: any suggestions? i'd say fix the problem where '' means "use default" since the default value is filled in to the form	19:03
+perlDreamer	yeah, that's what I'm doing	19:04
+perlDreamer	it will now be 0 instead of ''	19:04
+perlDreamer	still false, but not ''	19:04
@preaction	uh, but isn't that just changing where the problem is?	19:04
xdanger	since the new auth module (twitter and facebook) only writes a couple of rows to database, would it be possible to add that authmethod to existing user account?	19:05
+perlDreamer	yes, but the alternative is finding and fixing every workflow activity that relies (knowingly or not) on that behavior	19:05
@preaction	xdanger: you can change the user's auth method, yes, but a user cannot have multiple auth methods yet	19:05
@preaction	perlDreamer: how can they rely on it? the default value gets filled into the form	19:06
xdanger	I can auth with WebGUI and Facebook on the same account	19:06
+perlDreamer	preaction: the defaultValue is set in code, in the definition for the activity	19:06
@preaction	perlDreamer: and that gets given to the form control, which causes it to be displayed in the form when editing a workflow activity	19:06
@preaction	and when the user saves it, that default value is saved unless they change it	19:07
+perlDreamer	yes, and when it is used (edited or used in a workflow) then that value is overridden if it's '' or undef	19:07
+perlDreamer	if we change it, it's bad API breakage	19:07
+perlDreamer	even if we change it for the right reasons	19:08
+perlDreamer	I think the right thing to do is change it, but I fear the breakage	19:08
@preaction	xdanger: then yes, it's possible, but it would probably be better to have a way during facebook/twitter account creation to link to an existing user account, and a way in the user's profile to link their facebook/twitter account	19:09
+perlDreamer	so, somewhere in the activties, if someone has built a select list with '' as an option, and they're counting on getting the defaultValue instead of '', changing that would break their activity.	19:09
+perlDreamer	It's like the DarkPAN	19:09
@preaction	perlDreamer: it's potential breakage, if somehow someone overrode how forms work in their activity	19:09
+perlDreamer	No	19:09
+perlDreamer	what I just described is how it works now, regardless of overriding behavior in a plugin. Look at Worfklow/Activity, sub new	19:10
+perlDreamer	it's line 318	19:10
@preaction	yes, and only in the case you exactly described: a list of options where the option's value is "" and the defaultValue is "somethingelse" and the user explicitly chooses the value of "" because the form control will start out showing the "somethingelse" one	19:12
@preaction	in other words, they'd have to be trying to screw things up	19:12
+perlDreamer	this would all be better if there was error handling in the form processing code	19:15
+perlDreamer	I'll keep thinking about it while I'm at the gym	19:15
xdanger	preaction: I was thinking of adding facebook login to a existing site. And if I understand correctly, you only need to add corresponding row for this: "SELECT userId FROM authentication WHERE authMethod = ? AND fieldName = ? AND fieldData = ?", [ "Facebook", "facebookUserId", $fbuser->{id} ]	19:24
xdanger	If I want to do that in user profile, what is the right place to add it to?	19:24
@preaction	if you want to add facebook login to an existing site, you just need to use the FacebookLogin macro	19:25
@preaction	if you want to add to an existing user, make another macro that takes a userId and yes, get their facebook user ID from the whole process	19:25
xdanger	if I want to add feature for old users to add fb-auth to their account	19:25
xdanger	can I have a callback in a macro?	19:26
xdanger	since I need that from facebook	19:26
@preaction	no, you'd need to keep track of the user Id and probably add something to the facebook auth module that would do something different if the user is already logged-in to the site	19:26
xdanger	so add it to the Auth module, not make it a Operation?	19:27
@preaction	that's what i'd do	19:28
@preaction	if the user is already logged in, and somehow make it to the same callback in the auth module, use their userId instead of creating a new user	19:28
@preaction	oh, wait, that won't work. logged-in users can't choose authType to process a different one. perhaps that needs to change	19:29
xdanger	and the I could but the fb & twitter login macro to the profile as a text field =)	19:29
xdanger	oh	19:32
xdanger	Is that a big change?	19:33
@preaction	not really, no	19:34
@preaction	though maybe it's just the default authType, i don't know. WebGUI::Operation::Auth has the code to choose which auth module gets dispatched to	19:34
xdanger	I was thinking of adding a field "add other authentications to this account" to ?op=auth;method=displayAccount screen	19:34
xdanger	you could add twitter/openid/facebook/ (ldap?)	19:36
xdanger	it wouldn't work with LDAP I think =) that's little more complicated than the others	19:38
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neil_	I can install WRE on either 32/64 centos. With 64bit - Cache::FastMmap, Net::Twitter, PerlIO::eol & CHI don't install while with 32bit Net::Twitter & CHI don't install ( I just couldn't get them to install - perl testEnvironment.pl). Will it matter?	20:08
@preaction	cpan> force install Net::Twitter	20:09
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+perlDreamer	preaction: you're right about the Workflow activity behavior	20:28
+perlDreamer	'' should be fine as a value	20:28
@preaction	awesome	20:28
+perlDreamer	if it becomes a problem, we should put in error handling in pPFFP	20:28
@preaction	(well, not so much activity behavior as Form control behavior)	20:28
+perlDreamer	crap	20:32
+perlDreamer	preaction: git show ac5675cf	20:32
@preaction	looks like a wrong solution to the problem to me. what if instead we checked !exists $sub->{$property}?	20:36
@preaction	oh, wait, wtf	20:36
@preaction	yes, that.	20:36
+perlDreamer	seems like it should have updated the database with new default values	20:36
@preaction	WorkflowActivityData is the properties	20:36
+perlDreamer	right, per activity properties are in WorkflowActivityData	20:37
+perlDreamer	base properties are in WorkflowActivity	20:37
@preaction	so yes, that's the one we want to check. the $main is not configurable from the database, so we only care about the props in $sub	20:38
+perlDreamer	huh, $main is $session->db->getRow	20:38
+perlDreamer	??	20:38
@preaction	yes, it's the main bit of configuration, the configuration every activity has	20:39
@preaction	sorry, not configurable from the form	20:39
+perlDreamer	oh, yeah, okay. Gotcha	20:39
+perlDreamer	I think we can just truncate the conditional to this: http://gist.github.com/622583	20:40
+perlDreamer	that will catch missing defaults in WorkflowActivity and WorkflowActivityData	20:41
@preaction	why not defined? why not !exists?	20:42
+perlDreamer	well, if it doesn't exist, it's undef so we assign	20:43
+perlDreamer	if it exists and is undef, then we want a defaultValue	20:43
@preaction	so now undef is a reserved value. is that acceptable?	20:43
+perlDreamer	yes	20:45
@preaction	okay, sounds good to me	20:45
+perlDreamer	because the form plugins currently return undef for invalid user input	20:45
+perlDreamer	but that's the only reason why it's acceptable	20:46
@preaction	well, it's also reserved all over definitions around webgui	20:46
+perlDreamer	like we've said, it would be better to put error handling into pFFPP and fix the problem that way	20:46
+perlDreamer	WebGUI has come so far, but has a long way to go yet	20:48
@preaction	well, first we need to stop adding shitty code. then we need to remove the shitty code we have and replace with non-shitty code	20:49
@preaction	step one is the worst part of course	20:49
@scrottie	it always looks like such a good idea at the time.	20:50
@scrottie	mod_perl looked like a great idea at the time.	20:50
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r3ebc263 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity.pm): '' is no longer a special value for Workflow Activities, that will cause them to pull their defaultValue. Instead, only undef will do that. Fixes bug #11900 - http://bit.ly/a3FT0z	20:50
+perlDreamer	mod_perl is a great idea, it just went too far	20:51
@scrottie	but yeah. down with the shitty!	20:51
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra614d4f / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity.pm): '' is no longer a special value for Workflow Activities, that will cause them to pull their defaultValue. Instead, only undef will do that. Fixes bug #11900 - http://bit.ly/c0YaQe	20:51
+perlDreamer	we should have made mod_perlite first	20:51
+perlDreamer	then built the great bazooka that is mod_perl	20:51
@scrottie	or soon after. yeah.	20:51
@scrottie	SDL and lots of perl interfaces to libraries and such had the same problem... they first comprehensively exposed the API and then only much later presented a coherent, OO API on top of the comprehensive binary interface.	20:52
@scrottie	ssleay.	20:52
@scrottie	just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.	20:53
+perlDreamer	All things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial	20:54
+perlDreamer	It's the unofficial perl motto :)	20:54
@scrottie	then there's the Google motto: Keep the bozos out. they use Python >=)	20:56
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4b1af3d / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Image/Graph.pm): Use WebGUI::Pluggable::instanciate instead of string eval to load Image::Graph modules. Fixes bug #11898. - http://bit.ly/cQoGOW	21:04
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r3a6e72f / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Image/Graph.pm): Use WebGUI::Pluggable::instanciate instead of string eval to load Image::Graph modules. Fixes bug #11898. - http://bit.ly/b15EA9	21:05
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+perlDreamer	hey, how does dynamic mobile style detection work with caching for visitors?	21:12
@preaction	i am officially impressed with OpenSUSE's installer. easy to use, and yet not dumbed down to the lowest common denominator	21:16
+perlDreamer	won't the first visitor who comes along and views a page with a mobile browser set the cache for any subsequent visitors, for the length of the timeout?	21:16
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r66c2b57 / t/Form/Workflow.t : Basic test for Form/Workflow.pm - http://bit.ly/aDWieo	21:38
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xdanger	testEnvironment.pl test for perl 5.8, but isn't 5.10 required because of the smart matches?	23:26
@preaction	no. there are no smart matches in 7.x. if there are, that's a bug	23:26
@preaction	anyone here done any GSSAPI or Kerberos work in Perl?	23:26
xdanger	well, even in wg8 it testing for 5.8	23:28
@preaction	then that's a bug in webgui 8	23:28
@scrottie	I've never actually used the WRE to set up a site before this moment and I'm wondering if I'm missing something. the instructions don't say anything about running mysql_install_db and the wreconsole addSite thing doesn't do it. is this an implicit step?	23:32
@preaction	check addsite.pl maybe? is mysql_install_db doing the create.sql or is it doing the test database / backup stuff?	23:34
@scrottie	let me rephrase... it's asking for the mysql admin password and I haven't set one and haven't been told what it is.	23:34
@preaction	oh, uh... it should've asked for one during wreconsole.pl	23:35
@preaction	did you go to /setup first?	23:35
@scrottie	I did go there...: Site could not be created because Invalid admin password. Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','root',...) failed: Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: YES)	23:37
@scrottie	empty doesn't work, making one up doesn't... okay, probably what's going on is that someone already set this up once.	23:38
@scrottie	I need to blow away the wre directory and start over.	23:38
@preaction	probably a good idea, yeah	23:38
xdanger	did you try without a password?	23:38
@preaction	also, make sure no other mysqld running and /etc/my.cnf is not around (since mysql is dumb)	23:38
@scrottie	xdanger, yup.	23:39
@scrottie	yeah, that was step 4.	23:40
xdanger	oh I wish squeeze would go stable soon...	23:41
@preaction	sigh. we should just make PAM auth for WebGUI and then everything would work from there	23:42
@scrottie	"If you have an existing Apache or MySQL running please shut them down now. " ... "Run the WRE Console which you can use to configure WebGUI." ... "Site could not be created because MySQL appears to be down. at ./wreconsole.pl line 234" ... well, no duh. you told me to kill it.	23:44
@scrottie	I should write Test::POD::InstallInstructions	23:44
@preaction	you have to go to the Services tab and Start MySQL, then you can go back to Sites tab	23:44
@preaction	also, wreconsole sucks and i hate it and i want it to die	23:45
@scrottie	heh. well, I clicked the Services tab, and it did die: Cannot read config file: /data/WebGUI/etc/spectre.conf at /data/wre/lib/WRE/Spectre.pm line 82	23:48
@preaction	install didn't do something right	23:48
@scrottie	besides untaring stuff and killing stuff and moving mysql's cnf, that's install right there.	23:49
@scrottie	the docs are wrong.	23:49
@preaction	pastebin what the console that's running wreconsole.pl spit out during the /setup?	23:49
@scrottie	other than that, nothing else went to STDERR/STDOUT	23:50
@preaction	is this a brand-new install?	23:50
@scrottie	there was a wre directory there but after not knowing the mysql root password, I blew it away.	23:51
@preaction	and untar, . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh, wreconsole.pl, and finally http://someplace:62184/setup	23:51
@preaction	and it asked for an OS username, a mysql root pass, etc?	23:52
@scrottie	yup. and when I gave it stuff, it complained that MySQL wasn't running.	23:52
@preaction	did anything get output to stdout/stderr during that bit?	23:52
@scrottie	it didn't start it (successfully) and install notes didn't tell me to.	23:52
@scrottie	correct.	23:52
@preaction	usually there should be a standard mysql disclaimer text that isn't suppressed by the WRE running a mysqladmin process to set root's password	23:53
@scrottie	ldd libexec/mysqld \| grep 'not found' \| wc -l # 0	23:56
@scrottie	libexec/mysqld: Can't change dir to '/data/wre/var/mysqldata/' (Errcode: 2)	23:58
@scrottie	(directory doesn't exist)	23:58
@preaction	that's weird. it should get created during the setup	23:58
@preaction	is wreconsole.pl running as root? it should bitch if it isn't	23:59
@scrottie	which setup?	23:59
@preaction	the web /setup	23:59
--- Day changed Wed Oct 13 2010
@scrottie	yeah, running as root. mysqld won't. the install instructions have you creating a locked account you can't su to.	00:00
@scrottie	ah.	00:00
@scrottie	that was me testing from the command line, not output from wreconsole /setup	00:00
@preaction	right, but that was after /setup, no? or did you nuke and start over again?	00:00
@scrottie	yeah, after setup. true.	00:01
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@scrottie	creating the dir myself, same error message: Site could not be created because MySQL appears to be down. at wreconsole.pl line 234	00:02
@scrottie	(and chowning it to webgui)	00:02
@scrottie	this says that you can use any username but webgui is preferred; but then you don't tell it which username you've picked. how does it know who to run mysqld as?	00:03
@preaction	it's the first step in the web /setup	00:04
@scrottie	clicking "Add a Site" (per instructions) asks for a username for the database, not for Unix.	00:04
@preaction	instead of just going to http://example.com:port, add /setup onto the end	00:05
@scrottie	ooh	00:06
@scrottie	okay. I botched the instructions.	00:06
@scrottie	thanks everyone for your sufferance.	00:07
@scrottie	wreconsole spat out a URL when it started up and I pasted that rather than from the docs.	00:08
@preaction	yeah, it doesn't know you need /setup, but it's supposed to autodetect that you haven't set up yet	00:08
@preaction	and then redirect you to /setup, but that seems to have broke somehow	00:09
@preaction	or maybe it never worked, who knows	00:09
@scrottie	that would beat fatal'ing out when you click a tab.	00:09
* scrottie goes to soak his head for a bit.		00:15
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@scrottie	"The attached patch updates Data::Alias to work on Perl 5.12. " ... oh, heck yeah!	00:18
Haarg	the detection for when to redirect to /setup has never worked very well	00:29
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+perlDreamer	If you have a WebGUI directory, it won't do setup	00:38
+perlDreamer	you have to set it to the side, do the WRE install, then move it back and choose "Manual setup"	00:39
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+perlDreamer	preaction: would you chime in on this topic please: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11907	02:54
+perlDreamer	I think we should lock visitor out totally	02:54
+perlDreamer	I'll backlog after dinner.	02:54
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Haarg	i don't really think it is a bug, although it might be worth changing anyway.	02:55
@preaction	it's not a bug, if they have a problem they can file an RFE. when a real forum system is made, post ratings will not be part of it (but it will be able to be added to a subclass)	02:56
Haarg	the ip limit is by design. there isn't any good way to deal with preventing multiple votes without forcing people to log in, so the ip limit is a best effort guess.	02:56
+perlDreamer	thanks guys!	04:10
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rdfffd35 / : Preparing for 7.9.16 release - http://bit.ly/d2BG2J	06:47
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rfd50d37 / : Ready for 7.9.17 development. - http://bit.ly/aYpfpC	06:51
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CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * reef43d3 / sbin/testEnvironment.pl : Add workarounds for bad CPAN dependency resolution. - http://bit.ly/dnSXor	07:23
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8200f35 / t/Form/Workflow.t : Basic test for Form/Workflow.pm - http://bit.ly/d13Psd	07:24
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd769f2c / sbin/testEnvironment.pl : Add workarounds for bad CPAN dependency resolution. - http://bit.ly/ac6R28	07:24
Haarg	http://blogs.perl.org/users/graham_knop/2010/10/converting-complex-svn-repositories-to-git.html if anyone is interested	07:53
+perlDreamer	dude, you blogged!	07:54
Haarg	had to happen eventually i suppose	07:54
Haarg	now i just have to get the rest of it written up	07:54
Haarg	have three more posts about that stuff	07:55
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SDuensin	Anyone have suggestions for hiding a boss-sized body? (Morning!)	16:45
+bartjol	pigs (but hard to retrieve it after they ate it)	16:47
SDuensin	Dude, I do NOT want him back.	16:48
SDuensin	And there happens to be a pig farm just a few blocks from where I live. :-)	16:49
+bartjol	well, there you go	17:04
+danny_mk	Too Silence of the lambs for me :-/	17:12
SDuensin	hehe	17:15
+bartjol	I thought that was Snatch	17:22
+danny_mk	Well, I have made some progress with the OpenId module, just need to the registration and other options working	17:22
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+danny_mk	Hmmm... it seems I have lost all search functionality in a Wiki, not being sure of how the wiki search option works I am going to guess that I may need to rebuild an index someplace.	18:30
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CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r83bec84 / sbin/testEnvironment.pl : Document the new required module for Admin panel search. - http://bit.ly/b23ofq	19:10
@preaction	danny_mk: cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl search.pl --rebuildSite --configFile=<yoursite.conf>	19:11
+danny_mk	thank you	19:11
+danny_mk	is this a FAQ?	19:12
@preaction	no, i just have to do it a lot. if you could add a small wiki item that'd be great	19:12
@preaction	it could be something in the Administrator's guide	19:12
+danny_mk	OK, will do	19:12
+danny_mk	Unknown option: rebuildsite	19:14
@preaction	reindexSite, sorry	19:14
@preaction	otherwise perldoc search.pl	19:14
+danny_mk	:-)	19:15
+perlDreamer	Moose is awesome	20:21
+perlDreamer	with the refactor of ShipDriver and PayDriver to Moose, I'm going to be able to share a whole bunch of code between the two modules	20:21
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cj	quiet in here today	02:30
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* perlDreamer is packing it in for today		03:11
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@scrottie	Wednesday the 13th. ssh.	05:05
+Radix_	wednesday is soooo yesterday man	05:06
+Radix_	Thursday is where its at	05:06
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+Radix_	juniper fans might like this - http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=909241	05:15
+Radix_	oops.. wrong chan	05:16
cj	ENOTNANOG	05:38
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elnino	please tell me all you konw about affiliates and how one may implement in webgui? I'm so confused. =) how's that for a latenight topic????	06:13
* elnino is looking at the webgui site.		06:21
@preaction	elnino: i know quite a bit about it. there is no implementation in webgui. only thing you could do is a fill-in profile field	06:29
elnino	so. My understanding is that if my customer want an "affiliate program" that means that his customer can signup, get a code, and pass it around and if someone buys it, my customer's customer gets a cut.	06:30
elnino	so I wonder if coupons or a subscription code would work.	06:31
elnino	but there are many other third-party systems that provide "affiliate" tracking too, any recommendations?	06:32
elnino	s/buys it/buys it and specifys the code,	06:32
elnino	I saw the recent post from preaction about webgui::affiliate. Is there an affiliat system that you guys are thinking of emulating eventually?	06:37
@preaction	it hasn't entered into the picture yet	06:38
elnino	fair enough. I think I'm going to sleep now. Have a good night.	06:49
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:38
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+perlDreamer	Today is a great WebGUI day!	17:54
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@preaction	ooh, why?	17:56
+perlDreamer	WebGUI 8 is getting closer and closer all the time	17:56
+perlDreamer	The bug list is shrinking on a regular basis	17:56
+perlDreamer	WebGUI keeps getting faster	17:57
+perlDreamer	now, if only we'd made the deadline for Squeeze	17:57
@preaction	eh, we can't win them all	17:58
@preaction	and besides, if we have time to make a canonical PB repo that debian can fork...	17:58
+perlDreamer	am I nuts for thinking that we have to have a debian box to do that?	17:59
@preaction	dpkg files are well-documented, but it would be easier with debian's toolset	18:00
@preaction	and with linode, we could have a box for a few bucks a month	18:01
+perlDreamer	awesomeness	18:01
@preaction	huh, Deb and Ian broke up. wonder how he likes the Debian name now	18:01
+perlDreamer	btw, when I commit the ShipDriver Moose branch, you'll have to have a gander at the Shop code	18:02
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Definition::Shop is generic enough that I think we could use it for most WebGUI base classes, like User, Group, etc.	18:02
cj	preaction: yeah. crazy, huh?	18:02
@preaction	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deb_(file_format) <- looks pretty easy to do	18:02
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@preaction	cj: indeed	18:03
cj	sniffle	18:03
* cj runs his daughter to school		18:03
cj	field trip day	18:03
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+perlDreamer	two more shipping plugins to do	18:11
+perlDreamer	takes about 2 hours each with testing and any new i18n	18:11
neil_	perlDreamer - those perl (4) modules wouldn't install on CentOS 64bit but does on 32bit.	18:12
neil_	I tried as you suggested: cpan -f Cache::FastMmap, cpan -f Net::Twitter, cpan -f PerlIO::eol & cpan -f CHI	18:13
neil_	It works with 32bit CentOS	18:13
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+danny_mk	preaction: why did you not have to provide a www_logout method in your Auth::Twitter module?	18:55
@preaction	i just didn't. as long as they're logged in to twitter they're logged in to webgui	18:56
+danny_mk	Hmmm... I have to use www_logout in Auth::OpenId	18:58
+danny_mk	preaction: something does not sound right, a webgui session is independent of the Twitter session, why would webgui care after www_login?	19:00
@preaction	i just didn't add one, that's all. if the superclass doesn't handle it, then there's no logging out	19:01
+danny_mk	OK, that sounds right	19:02
+danny_mk	the user stays logged in until the session for that user expires	19:02
+perlDreamer	neil_: I don't have a 64-bit system to try it out with	19:15
neil_	Should I stick to 32 bit since it everything installs correctly? I prefer 64bit for security.	19:17
neil_	and hope that a fix comes along!	19:19
+perlDreamer	there probably won't be a fix from our end, since we didn't make the modules that won't compile	19:21
+perlDreamer	I would recommend taking this to the admin forum, since there have been 64-bit discussions there	19:21
neil_	the webgui.org site has broken links - admin, install/upgrade	19:26
+perlDreamer	on which page, neil_	19:27
neil_	http://www.webgui.org/community/community-support - under webgui forums	19:28
+perlDreamer	neil_: If you file a bug for that, I'll fix it today or tomorrow	19:36
+perlDreamer	in the meantime, try going here: http://www.webgui.org/forums	19:36
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neil_	I'm aware of this link too, but are those two forums no longer maintained? Over the last few months lots of changes had taken place, especially in ''community support'	19:46
@preaction	what do you mean "maintained"? what do you mean "changes"?	19:46
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neil_	changes - more helpful info	19:48
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neil_	maintained - I had inquired already on the broken links and was informed that they be combined with another	19:51
@preaction	i dunno then. the forums are there. people post to them	19:54
* perlDreamer is off to another parent conference		19:54
neil_	My specific inquiry is that the Admin & Install/Upgrade Help forums links are broken. I would have posted there my self, but I did in other forums.	19:57
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SDuensin	Hey gang, reading the wiki, it shows ^Page("urlizedTitle"); as returning the title of the current page in URL format. Except I get nothing. Is the wiki correct? Where can I see a list of valid options for this macro?	21:32
@preaction	any asset properties are valid. urlizedTitle is not an asset property	21:39
@preaction	that macro is exactly one line: return $session->asset->get(shift);	21:39
@preaction	so check the DB Scheme, look at "asset", "assetData", and for Page Layouts, the "Layout" table	21:40
SDuensin	Sounds fun. OK, thanks. (Wiki is wrong then!)	21:44
+perlDreamer	SDuensin: It's a wiki. Fix it!	22:01
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SDuensin	lol	22:05
SDuensin	Can you not put macros inside the ^AssetProxy macro?	22:28
Haarg	how are you trying to put them inside it?	22:30
SDuensin	It's ugly. :-)	22:32
SDuensin	^AssetProxy(/en/photogallery/^RegExReplace(^URLEncode(^ToLower(^PageTitle();););,"\%..",""););	22:32
SDuensin	Everything inside the AssetProxy works as I expect.	22:33
Haarg	your commas aren't quite right i don't think	22:34
SDuensin	They work without the AssetProxy around them.	22:35
Haarg	unless you add quotes, it splits on commas at the outer most layet	22:35
Haarg	*layer	22:35
Haarg	so it's parsing as ^AssetProxy("/en/...^PageTitle();););", ...);	22:36
SDuensin	If I provide the optional [type] to AssetProxy, think it'd figure it out?	22:37
SDuensin	And what is [type]? WebGUI::Asset::Folder?	22:37
Haarg	you need to quote the arguments to the assetproxy call	22:37
Haarg	^AssetProxy('/en/photogallery/^RegExReplace(^URLEncode(^ToLower(^PageTitle();););,"\%..","");'); would probably work	22:38
SDuensin	Trying.	22:38
SDuensin	WHOOOO! Should have asked a half hour ago!	22:38
SDuensin	Thanks Haarg!	22:38
Haarg	macro parsing isn't ideal but no matter what we try to do with it it will be problematic	22:39
SDuensin	I hear that. Every time I try and work out a better way, I run into more problems. :-)	22:39
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+danny_mk	preaction: OK, I converted the Auth::OpenId module to the new API. I will upload the new version tonight. One good thing that came out of it was the option to pass authType=OpenId as a parameter. That eliminates the openid.guest account.	23:23
@preaction	and it should eliminate the need to fallback to WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI for anything	23:24
+danny_mk	Yup	23:27
+danny_mk	Who wants to give me a little feedback on the OpenId Auth module? Try it out here: http://openid.dbash.com	23:29
@preaction	danny_mk: post the code to github, would be easier for me to give comments	23:33
+danny_mk	OK	23:33
@khenn	question about the new auth API (this comes from knowing nothing about it)	23:36
@khenn	is it still capable of dealing with multiple account types for a single user?	23:36
+perlDreamer	"still"?	23:36
@khenn	ie: IP auth as well as WebGUI auth for a single user	23:36
@khenn	it was capable of that at one point	23:37
@preaction	it is exactly as capable of that as it was previously	23:37
@khenn	k	23:37
@preaction	nothing changed except there's a new way to choose an authType when you're a Visitor	23:37
@preaction	and you can use www_method without having to do setCallable	23:37
+perlDreamer	nice	23:38
@preaction	really the authType column in users is unnecessary, as the individual authtype could just check to see if it has the fields it needs in the authentication table	23:38
@khenn	it is but if you remove it you will be adding more work for me =(	23:43
@preaction	and i wouldn't remove it until it was warned about and all the core code did nothing with it	23:44
@preaction	but it'd be nice to have a Facebook user be able to use a WebGUI login if Facebook is down	23:45
+perlDreamer	couldn't we provide a setCallable method which does $self->can(shift);, for backwards compatibility?	23:45
+perlDreamer	or something similar?	23:46
@preaction	setCallable still works as-is right now	23:46
@preaction	and i have no reason to remove it	23:46
@preaction	it's saveParams that won't work, but that can be made to keep working	23:46
@preaction	new(), on the other hand, may not be able to be kludged in that manner	23:46
--- Day changed Fri Oct 15 2010
@preaction	i just wrote POD for WebGUI::FormBuilder::Tabset, but it's saying it has no POD	00:11
+perlDreamer	Check namespaces	00:11
+perlDreamer	and then curse the POD testing tools because they're not so good	00:11
@preaction	only one pm has package WebGUI::FormBuilder::Tabset	00:12
CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rb80c2be / lib/WebGUI/Admin.pm : add POD - http://bit.ly/9cOlFl	00:16
CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r5116fca / (lib/WebGUI/FormBuilder.pm lib/WebGUI/FormBuilder/Tabset.pm): added/updated documentation - http://bit.ly/dnaMLU	00:16
@preaction	yay! i'm cleaning up after myself finally!	00:17
+perlDreamer	preaction++	00:20
@preaction	now on to the tests! then i can finally do Something Else like remove those evil assets or fix the www_add/www_edit/versiontag apis	00:21
+danny_mk	preaction: What version of webgui was the setCallable requirement dropped for www_method?	00:32
@preaction	7.9	00:33
@preaction	and not dropped, www_method was just added	00:33
@preaction	let's say i have a streaming PSGI response, how would I get it? do i have to make an env and send it through the whole cycle?	00:45
@preaction	or can i just set the streamer and somehow get at it?	00:45
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+danny_mk	Whooly crap, something does not look right batman! http://www.webgui.org/addons/openid-auth-module	01:07
+danny_mk	what is with all the crappy characters?	01:08
+danny_mk	preaction: I will have to figure out how to add the Module+Macro+i18n/english modules into github later.	01:14
@preaction	ok, no worries	01:14
+danny_mk	I use CVS and Subversion at work all the time but I am a git vigin	01:14
@preaction	git isn't so bad, really. there's even a "Git for people who use SVN" tutorial	01:15
+danny_mk	I have a weblogin to github, will that be enough to add files under WebGUI/Auth/..	01:15
@preaction	well, you should probably make a fork of WebGUI, then create a branch in your fork, then add your changes to that	01:17
@preaction	that way, i can just pull from you and your code is in, and it'll even say "Committed by Danny_MK" on github	01:17
+danny_mk	OK, I will try that.	01:17
+danny_mk	later...	01:18
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@preaction	okay, figured out WebGUI::Test::Mechanize and it is officially AWESOME	01:28
@preaction	wonder if I could somehow wrap this around Test::WWW::Selenium...	01:29
CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf40a690 / (5 files in 2 dirs): remove tests for deleted modules - http://bit.ly/bgIoaW	01:33
CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r645f5f7 / lib/WebGUI/Test/Mechanize.pm : added documentation for WebGUI::Test::Mechanize - http://bit.ly/bs1h50	01:33
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CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r51d5f6b / t/AssetHelper/Copy.t : fix tests for Copy assethelper - http://bit.ly/9rSHsv	01:35
@preaction	i just realized the scope of the work of making VersionTags not get automatically created. every test will have to change to not commit a tag	02:30
* preaction is doing it anyway! RAAAAAGE		02:30
@preaction	that's of course after i finish adding sunny-day tests to the Admin stuff, right perlDreamer ?	02:32
+perlDreamer	:)	02:32
+perlDreamer	also, if you change how version tags work, make sure all the tests pass before merging	02:32
+perlDreamer	otherwise, I may have a coronary	02:32
@preaction	of course, i never make sure they all work before committing you know that	02:32
@preaction	i mean	02:32
@preaction	wait	02:32
@preaction	uhm...	02:33
@scrottie	wow, version tags might start making sense before I understand exactly how they work.	02:33
+perlDreamer	we're not talking about you, of course	02:33
+perlDreamer	other devs, preaction	02:33
+perlDreamer	you're golden	02:33
@frodwith	Version tags make perfect sense the way they are. How can you improve on perfection?	02:33
@preaction	the one thing changing: you will have to specifically ask for a version tag in order to get one.	02:34
@preaction	that one change is gonna be a bitch...	02:34
@scrottie	and if there is no version tag, there are no previous versions, only _the_ version...?	02:34
@preaction	no, a revision will get created, but it won't be part of a tag	02:35
@preaction	so addRevision still adds a revision, just doesn't make a tag. you have to make the tag yourself and add the new revision to the tag	02:35
@frodwith	Is that even possible now?	02:35
@scrottie	alright.	02:35
@frodwith	to have a revision that's not in a tag, I mean?	02:36
@preaction	no, it's not. addRevision always creates or uses a tag	02:36
@frodwith	Interesting...	02:36
@preaction	but this change will make autocommit a lot simpler, as well as a whole bunch of other things that cause huge problems for new devs	02:36
@frodwith	Well, the spooky action-at-a-distance goes away. Which I'm all for.	02:37
@frodwith	You don't really even need autocommit do you?	02:37
@frodwith	if you're taking away the "every revision must be in a tag" thing	02:38
@frodwith	revisions made outside tags are just there.	02:38
+perlDreamer	so what good is a tag?	02:38
@preaction	a tag defines a staged set of revisions	02:38
@frodwith	Grouping sets of revisions	02:38
@preaction	without a tag, there's no staging. without a tag, there's no group of revisions	02:38
@frodwith	The floating revisions become essentially what we have now with the piles and piles of one-revision-tags that get autocommited all the time.	02:39
@preaction	eventually we can make WebGUI::Stage that will accept any kind of db content and allow staging of it. staging group changes maybe? workflow changes? settings changes?	02:39
@frodwith	kill preaction	02:39
@preaction	oh come on!	02:40
@frodwith	one thing at a time	02:40
@preaction	with a proper ORM it'd be cake	02:40
@frodwith	such a dreamer	02:40
@preaction	i said eventually!	02:40
@preaction	if non-assets can be staged, then we have one less reason to use assets for everything	02:40
+perlDreamer	why would you want to stage a group, or a user?	02:41
+perlDreamer	I guess it's like expiration	02:41
@frodwith	i don't think the reason we want to have everything be an asset right now has much to do with the versioning.	02:41
* perlDreamer tries not to put on his old, grumpy programmer hat		02:41
@frodwith	It's cause it's like the only sane plugin point.	02:41
@preaction	a group, perhaps to see who can see something before the change is made? a user, perhaps to require they be approved	02:41
@preaction	frodwith: for a sane plugin point, it's pretty jacked	02:42
@frodwith	it's saner than the other plugin points	02:42
@frodwith	how's that	02:42
@preaction	how's what?	02:42
@frodwith	the...thing I just said	02:42
@preaction	oh, perhaps	02:43
@preaction	Workflow Activities are pretty sane	02:43
@frodwith	...	02:43
@frodwith	I'm disowning you.	02:43
* preaction 's daemonization is now complete!		02:43
@preaction	first he backgrounded me, now he's disowning me! i win!	02:43
+perlDreamer	Content handlers are pretty sane, too	02:43
@preaction	content handlers are not extendible because they use ::handler and not ->handler()	02:44
@frodwith	that's one problem. Another problem is that all of them are called.	02:44
@preaction	Admin plugins can help with that	02:45
@preaction	don't need to use a content handler to just jack a single URL	02:45
@preaction	wonder if we could make a singleton asset that did not allow itself to be added via the web interface	02:45
@preaction	or deleted	02:46
+perlDreamer	or moved, or copied, or pasted?	02:46
@frodwith	so, not an asset in any way, in other words.	02:46
+perlDreamer	yeah :)	02:46
+perlDreamer	like an Operation	02:46
@preaction	it could be edited, searched for, but it would take up a /slot, instead of requiring ?op=OMGILOVEQUERYSTRINGSTHEYARESOAWESOME!	02:47
@preaction	and allow children assets	02:47
+perlDreamer	ah, but that's where URL fragments come in!	02:47
@frodwith	An interface inside webgui for mounting plack apps at urls would be cool.	02:47
@preaction	frodwith: but wait, didn't you write something for that already?	02:48
@frodwith	preaction: You remembered!	02:48
@preaction	perlDreamer: but the only way right now of jacking URL fragments is to slow down, however minutely, every single request in WebGUI	02:48
@preaction	or URL handlers, which went away	02:48
+perlDreamer	somebody is going to look at URLs and dispatch them somewhere	02:48
+perlDreamer	either in WebGUI, or out of it	02:48
@preaction	so why not Asset?	02:48
@frodwith	mostly because what you're talking about isn't asset-nature	02:49
@preaction	i could make Admin into an asset, using fragments to pass to plugins	02:49
@frodwith	it's more like... app-nature	02:49
@preaction	ASSET NATURE IS WHAT I SAY IT IS! RAAAAAWR	02:49
@preaction	well, i suppose asset could subclass application, but now we're just being crazy	02:49
@frodwith	really? I must be crazy then	02:50
@frodwith	cause that's exactly what i was thinking	02:50
@preaction	so an asset would be the assetData table, an application would be the asset table, and URLs would move far far away from assetData like they should be, in their own table	02:50
+perlDreamer	run away, contagious psychic craziness!	02:50
@preaction	but then WebGUI::Application can't be the crazy dancer DSL i want, i'd need WebGUI::Application::Declarative	02:51
@preaction	the horror. the horror	02:51
@preaction	and no, fleas are not more awesome than dancers!	02:51
@frodwith	Flea and dancer's syntax are almost the same idea. That's just -all- flea does. Dancer does a bunch of other things.	02:52
* perlDreamer suits up, and prepares for Survey JS work		02:55
@frodwith	Start writing everything in coffeescript. It'll give preaction -fits-.	02:55
@preaction	i will not stop at killing you. i will kill the person who suggested it to you, his family, anyone who met him, shook hands with him, and that one kid who laughed at him all the time in high school	02:57
@frodwith	he won't kill anyone, he's a big harmless teddy bear.	02:57
@preaction	$('.account').css class: 'active' BECOMES $('.account').css({ "class" : "active" }); <- FUCK NO	02:58
@preaction	this is the worst clusterfuck of Ruby, Perl, JS, and Python I have ever seen	02:58
@frodwith	You're obviously in a bad mood.	02:59
@preaction	son, you have not seen me in a bad mood ;)	02:59
@frodwith	Coffeescript is really sane. I like it rather a lot.	02:59
@preaction	but seriously, changing -> into function(){} is horrible. haskell syntax?	02:59
@frodwith	you like writing function(){} better?	03:00
+perlDreamer	why can't everyone just use perl?	03:00
@preaction	actually yes, but we've been over this: I prefer JS to jQuery	03:00
@frodwith	-what-?	03:01
@frodwith	now you're not even making sense.	03:01
SDuensin	Just rewrite the entire thing in GWT.	03:01
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, 50 pushups	03:01
+perlDreamer	right now	03:01
@preaction	SDuensin: you stay out of this! racist!	03:01
SDuensin	lol	03:01
SDuensin	Spent the day in both GWT and WebGUI (different projects).	03:02
@frodwith	preaction is one of those morons who thinks JS and jQuery are different languages. Everyone take note and don't listen to anything he says.	03:02
+perlDreamer	the real question is, what prevents the Survey controller class from turning a common textarea into a TinyMCE editor?	03:02
@scrottie	God, I miss gopher.	03:03
SDuensin	lol	03:03
SDuensin	I still want my BBS back.	03:04
@preaction	perlDreamer: is done_testing(); how we're supposed to do it now?	03:04
+perlDreamer	in 8, yes	03:04
+perlDreamer	in 7, no	03:04
+perlDreamer	it makes porting tests difficult	03:04
@preaction	assethelpers don't exist in 7, so i'm clean	03:05
CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rd40fbc8 / t/AssetHelper/Cut.t : fix Cut assethelper tests - http://bit.ly/9iahvH	03:06
CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r20744ce / (4 files): remove unneeded asset helpers - http://bit.ly/9J63HD	03:07
CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r7c5ca60 / lib/WebGUI/Test/Mechanize.pm : update Test::Mechanize docs for changing users - http://bit.ly/bPCqvp	03:07
CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * raaeb494 / t/AssetHelper/ChangeUrl.t : add ChangeUrl assethelper test - http://bit.ly/a8Wf9l	03:07
@scrottie	http://nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/165052 # Sub::Name crutches for the debugger	03:07
@frodwith	undocumented mortality ftw.	03:08
@preaction	nice. <3 learning about perl internals	03:08
@scrottie	sometimes following p5p is like watching a cage fighting match with all of the WWF plus MMA all going at it at the same time.	03:11
@scrottie	I guess other open source projects are worse.	03:11
@scrottie	anyway, that's a big step towards Moose code making sense in the debugger.	03:11
@frodwith	Yes indeed.	03:12
+perlDreamer	brb	03:12
+perlDreamer	back	03:23
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cj	perlDreamer: feel like helping me figure out why these templates aren't being expanded?	03:34
cj	http://anxiety.colliertech.org/	03:35
+perlDreamer	for starters, those are macros, not templates	03:35
+perlDreamer	so, make sure that you have:	03:35
cj	yeah, that's what I meant ;)	03:35
+perlDreamer	1) Source code for the macros in the right place	03:35
+perlDreamer	2) Configuration file entries for the macros	03:36
cj	$ grep TextOrLog /data/WebGUI/etc/dev.localhost.localdomain.conf ; cat /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.custom "TextOrLoginBox" : "TextOrLoginBox",	03:37
cj	/projects/WebFlow/lib	03:37
+perlDreamer	and /projects/WebFlow/lib is in custom.preload in the sbin directory?	03:38
@scrottie	yeah	03:38
+perlDreamer	and it's Apache readable?	03:38
+perlDreamer	and there are no errors in the WebGUI log file?	03:38
cj	where's the log file live?	03:39
+perlDreamer	/data/wre/var/logs/{modperl.error.log,webgui.log}	03:39
+perlDreamer	check both of those	03:39
cj	I was missing the customlog command in my apache config	03:41
cj	(and I'm not using wre)	03:41
+perlDreamer	then, check whereever you told WebGUI to log in /data/WebGUI/etc/log.conf	03:41
+perlDreamer	and your standard apache log locations	03:41
+perlDreamer	Also, you should be warned, VERY BAD THINGS have happened for people who have developed off the WRE, then put it into a WRE environment.	03:42
+perlDreamer	perl != perl	03:42
+perlDreamer	modules != modules	03:42
cj	okay	03:42
cj	Can't locate WebGUI/Content/WebFlow.pm in @INC	03:44
cj	looks like @INC should include /data/WebFlow	03:45
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+perlDreamer	yeah, that would be preload.custom	03:46
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r223b0df / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix Editor display problems in the survey edit screen. Fixes bug #11913 - http://bit.ly/beMhRz	03:46
cj	cool. things look nicer now	03:47
cj	and there are fewer errors in the log	03:47
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdac8186 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix Editor display problems in the survey edit screen. Fixes bug #11913 - http://bit.ly/9e06zW	03:48
@scrottie	apparently if you're running the 32 bit wre on a 64 bit FedoraCentRedHatOS system, you need lots of -m32's inserted in your Makefile and yum install glibc-devel.i386 installed.	03:53
* perlDreamer is out for dinner		03:54
@scrottie	good call.	03:55
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cj	so.	05:45
cj	my ssl cert doesn't work on the extranet	05:45
cj	scrottie: it would be much easier if you would set up openvpn	05:45
cj	I don't want to host any outward-facing ssl servers until Pam Floyd okays me to do so.	05:46
cj	http://www.loc.colliertech.org/state/19.34_RCW/Operative_Personnel_Certification_2010_p2-lowres.png	05:46
cj	http://www.colliertech.org/state/19.34_RCW/Operative_Personnel_Certification_2010_p2-lowres.png	05:47
cj	for those of you not on the intranet	05:47
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+perlDreamer	ShipDriver is done!	06:02
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r499feb4 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver/UPS.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver/UPS.t): Fix naming problem with shippingServices, update tests. - http://bit.ly/8Xn0fm	06:02
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r30ff459 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Ship.pm t/Shop/Ship.t): Update Ship master class for new ShipDriver requirements. - http://bit.ly/9JdiLc	06:02
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbf8bdd1 / (16 files in 5 dirs): Merge branch 'ShipDriver_cio' into WebGUI8 - http://bit.ly/bwFQfn	06:02
+perlDreamer	that only leaves WebGUI::Crud	06:06
+perlDreamer	and then we're free of Class::InsideOut forever	06:06
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+perlDreamer	good night, all	06:31
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SDuensin	Morning all.	16:31
+bartjol	morning	16:43
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+danny_mk	preaction: Good morning, OK, I think I figured out how to commit the Auth::OpenId module and supporting modules to the git repo	17:16
-!- danny_mk is now known as danny_mk_IsAway		17:22
+perlDreamer	preaction: I'm considering doing a cheap and easy on the Class::InsideOut removal from Crud.	17:36
+perlDreamer	it would have two steps	17:36
+perlDreamer	Step 1, build a simple WebGUI::Definition for Crud	17:36
+perlDreamer	Step 2, for compatibility, provide crud_definition, crud_getProperties, et. al.	17:37
+perlDreamer	the alternative is to go and build our own internal light weight ORM to replace Crud	17:38
+perlDreamer	so, until we choose a CPAN ORM, I'd like to go that route	17:38
-!- danny_mk_IsAway is now known as danny_mk		17:39
* perlDreamer goes to the gym, and consider his course of action on the Tree of Woe		17:39
+perlDreamer	(right next to Conan, you never saw me in the film due to bad camera angles)	17:39
+danny_mk	you wish :-)	17:40
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cj	good morning to you / good morning to you / we're all in our places / with bright shining faces / good morning to you / good morning to you	19:06
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+perlDreamer	preaction, after much sweating and nausea, I'm convinced that's still the right approach to WebGUI::Crud	19:32
+perlDreamer	any dissent?	19:32
@preaction	nope, go head	19:32
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cj	what was the fix for this again?	22:16
cj	Called UNIVERSAL::isa() as a function, not a method at /usr/share/perl5/UNIVERSAL/can.pm	22:16
@scrottie	that's a warning, and the things triggering it are CPAN modules, not WebGUI, as I understand the situation. we're waiting for other people to fix stuff.	22:19
cj	yes, but I made them go away on my local system. I forgot what I did ;)	22:20
@scrottie	but, whether calling UNIVERSAL::isa() is actually "broken" is a debate in itself.	22:20
@frodwith	I'm rather fond of eval { $thing->isa('widget') }	22:33
@frodwith	UNIVERSAL::isa disallows overriding isa, doesn't it?	22:34
carogray	frodwith: I am back after two weeks - used your html to template toolkit converter and the syntax you shared with me [% IF loop.index > 4 %] [% BREAK %] [% END %] to limit the length of the navigation list	22:35
carogray	I tried it right away = gobbledy gook	22:35
carogray	avoiding having to think too hard I didn't even look at it again til today when I decided to review Steve Swanson's presentation on WebGUI TV	22:36
carogray	duh - I had forgotten to change the drop down at the bottom of the screen to Template Toolkit	22:36
@frodwith	heh	22:36
carogray	not to brag about my idiocy,but just to thank you for making the solution so very simple	22:36
carogray	It works perfectly! and I even understand it!	22:37
carogray	thanks so much.	22:37
@frodwith	you're quite welcome :)	22:37
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cj	frodwith: where have I seen you before?	22:43
@frodwith	how do you mean cj?	22:43
cj	I have a pretty good memory for irc nicks, and I'm sure I've seen yours before	22:44
@frodwith	several possibilities, I use the name all over the place.	22:44
@frodwith	on irc, #moose or #plack maybe?	22:44
cj	probably #moose, I don't think I've ventured into #plack	22:44
cj	anyhow, o/	22:44
@frodwith	hi :)	22:45
cj	I think prove has hung at t/Group.t#113	22:46
cj	maybe my mysql server fell over	22:46
@khenn	ping cj	22:47
@khenn	check skype	22:47
cj	khenn: pong	22:47
cj	doing so now	22:47
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SDuensin	Almost-Good-Morning-At-Last!	17:30
+bartjol	luckily for you: IT'S MONDAY :)	17:36
SDuensin	Oh yea. Happy-happy, joy-joy.	17:39
cj	o/	17:41
cj	anything new & exciting in here?	17:41
* cj readies his daughter for school		17:41
SDuensin	Not with me.	17:42
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SDuensin	Gotta do some running. Back after lunch.	17:56
+bartjol	oh, btw has anyone seen an xls2csv error during the 7.8.24-7.9.11 upgrade?	18:20
+bartjol	haven't seen it on the forum	18:20
+bartjol	in the reindexSiteForDefaultSynopsis sub	18:21
+bartjol	haven't looked to far into it yet, just wanted to know whether there was a default solution	18:22
+perlDreamer	bartjol, you should get that error anytime that the site is indexed, not only during an upgrade	18:23
+bartjol	ah	18:23
+bartjol	well, it was the first time I saw it	18:24
+perlDreamer	I have seen that warning pop up, but it didn't interfere with the upgrade	18:24
+perlDreamer	just makes it noisy	18:24
+bartjol	ah, I should just continue? because it seems to get in a loop	18:24
+bartjol	or my patience volume group must be extended	18:25
+perlDreamer	I would try more patience first	18:26
+bartjol	well, I don't need a reboot for that	18:26
+bartjol	ok	18:26
+bartjol	because I had 10-15 of those before I broke it off	18:27
+bartjol	for 1 site	18:27
+perlDreamer	there would be one of more per bad XLS file	18:28
+bartjol	people shouldn't upload xls files	18:28
+perlDreamer	we can fix that bug, if you wish	18:29
+bartjol	well, if I know a patch, that's OK by me	18:29
+bartjol	or maybe, it is better to fix it, I can understand if other people will panic	18:30
+bartjol	I just don't care enough :P	18:31
+bartjol	should I report it?	18:33
+perlDreamer	you can, but it's a bug in the WRE	18:34
+bartjol	oh, better to fix it there then	18:34
+perlDreamer	I'd assign it to Koen, but he's been absent a while	18:35
+bartjol	since the frequent releases of that, I should fix it	18:35
+bartjol	well and since his 2nd is due any time	18:35
+perlDreamer	ah, so not yet?	18:35
+bartjol	so, what's the patch	18:35
+perlDreamer	I have no idea. Likely need to upgrade to a new version of xls2csv	18:36
+bartjol	no, but it could happen anytime now	18:36
+perlDreamer	it's a binary	18:36
+bartjol	mmm I did install it with aptitude, but maybe not correctly	18:36
+perlDreamer	I've seen it on CentOS servers, so perhaps we're just stuck?	18:36
+bartjol	mmm, the bin file in prereqs isn't updated	18:37
+bartjol	so, time to learn more wre for me	18:44
* perlDreamer is off to appointment #1 today		18:59
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@khenn	how do you page up and down in vim again?	19:22
@preaction	Shift+F iirc or Ctrl+F	19:22
@preaction	otherwise :help motion <- will get you the right doc file	19:23
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cj	alright. feeding the little one, then prepping for the stand-up	19:25
scrottie0	^F, ^B	19:47
scrottie0	mornin'	19:47
@preaction	morning	19:47
cj	scrottie0: howdy	19:47
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@preaction	so we've been talking about running perltidy over the whole codebase for years now, and we've never come up with an acceptable time	20:01
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@preaction	8.0.0 will be the time	20:01
@preaction	any problems merging bugfixes from 7.x to 8.0.x will just have to be problems	20:02
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+perlDreamer	preaction: every time we've run perltidy on the codebase it's broken it	20:25
@preaction	and we've had this discussion every time we've discussed it, that was probably because it was run on the whole thing and not done slowly	20:26
+perlDreamer	yup	20:27
+perlDreamer	just want to make sure it's on the radar	20:27
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r19a87ea / (5 files in 5 dirs): Variable hour formats don't add an extra space any longer. Fixes bug #11915. - http://bit.ly/a6bvhX	20:33
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * reef83f8 / (5 files in 5 dirs): Variable hour formats don't add an extra space any longer. Fixes bug #11915. - http://bit.ly/a9lGm6	20:33
@preaction	asset helpers are now tested, on to unittesting the admin console	20:35
CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf339fdc / t/AssetHelper/CopyBranch.t : test CopyBranch asset helper - http://bit.ly/cWXVjL	20:35
CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r8d83914 / t/AssetHelper/EditBranch.t : test EditBranch asset helper - http://bit.ly/dcSRXq	20:35
CIA-56	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * ra1b7e93 / t/AssetHelper/ExportHtml.t : test ExportHtml asset helper - http://bit.ly/9a0hBB	20:35
+perlDreamer	hack on, preaction!	20:36
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* perlDreamer heads for lunch		22:21
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+danny_mk	That google friends connect login option to webgui is giving me a bit of a hard time... argghhh...	22:40
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CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3ad69de / (7 files in 6 dirs): Template the emails sent out during content approval. Includes new template, i18n, Help docs upgrade sub and code. Fixes bug #11901. - http://bit.ly/9vpWSs	23:54
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r3371c2b / (7 files in 6 dirs): Template the emails sent out during content approval. Includes new template, i18n, Help docs upgrade sub and code. Fixes bug #11901. - http://bit.ly/cGGHy1	23:55
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rdd43826 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade package to the right place. - http://bit.ly/dkofnz	23:55
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CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb02aee5 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Form/HTMLArea.pm): In addition to mobile browser detection for styles, also do it for HTMLAreas and display a simple textarea instead. Fixes bug #11902. - http://bit.ly/azePcY	05:34
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rc74ed70 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Form/HTMLArea.pm): In addition to mobile browser detection for styles, also do it for HTMLAreas and display a simple textarea instead. Fixes bug #11902. - http://bit.ly/aAprwm	05:34
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SDuensin	I GOT CAKE!	16:27
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+perlDreamer	Haarg: A long time ago, when I started writing tests I started adding conditional code like "if ($self->session->request)".	19:11
+perlDreamer	Nowadays, with Plack and WebGUI::Test, we always have a request object	19:11
+perlDreamer	well, except for scripts	19:11
+perlDreamer	hm	19:11
+perlDreamer	I guess that answers that question	19:12
+perlDreamer	I was thinking we could pull out the conditional code, but it's not safe yet	19:12
+perlDreamer	frodwith, I went with eval/$@ method, since it's well documented that getting cookies can croak in Apache.	19:21
+perlDreamer	We'll have a better solution in 8, as usual, via Plack	19:21
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * raabb9ed / (3 files in 3 dirs): Getting cookies can croak. Eval the fetching of cookies and do error handling. Fixes bug #11912. - http://bit.ly/b5dJiO	19:22
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rde655d1 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Getting cookies can croak. Eval the fetching of cookies and do error handling. Fixes bug #11912. - http://bit.ly/coaD2R	19:23
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CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r1449e16 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix a rendering problem with Section title, text and the question block. Fixes bug #11919. - http://bit.ly/baKWjd	20:19
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8df687b / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix a rendering problem with Section title, text and the question block. Fixes bug #11919. - http://bit.ly/c3z3Jl	20:20
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CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r859076f / (3 files in 3 dirs): Group To Post is now not sufficient to view a CS. Fixes bug #11916. - http://bit.ly/a74xSB	21:42
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf1b454c / (3 files in 3 dirs): Group To Post is now not sufficient to view a CS. Fixes bug #11916. - http://bit.ly/akTtrn	21:43
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CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf159fab / (6 files in 6 dirs): Make the password recovery email templatable. Includes i18n, help docs, upgrade sub, template package and code. Fixes bug #11918. - http://bit.ly/bZ5XzC	01:23
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r9beea03 / (6 files in 6 dirs): Make the password recovery email templatable. Includes i18n, help docs, upgrade sub, template package and code. Fixes bug #11918. - http://bit.ly/aTPAUB	01:24
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rc630eff / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade package to the right directory. - http://bit.ly/axw1nE	01:24
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elnino	so I have a question....	05:31
elnino	I have a template that has an assetproxy to a snippet.	05:32
elnino	and that snippet has an assetproxy to a nav asset	05:32
elnino	s/template/styletemplate	05:32
elnino	when I view the site, I get a "edit button" for the navigation...	05:32
elnino	well	05:32
elnino	I need that ability for other asset types.	05:33
elnino	did I do something? or is that a special provision you made?	05:33
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elnino	oh so quiet	06:15
elnino	kids asleep	06:15
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CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbdbb324 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix the navigation depth in the CrystalX top nav. Fixes bug #11905 - http://bit.ly/barIZZ	06:23
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbfe9780 / docs/create.sql : Ready for 7.10.3 release. - http://bit.ly/9YuW8P	06:25
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+perlDreamer	oh, upgrading we will go	06:29
+perlDreamer	upgrading we will go	06:29
+perlDreamer	high ho the derry oh	06:29
+perlDreamer	upgrading we will go	06:29
elnino	here here	06:30
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+perlDreamer	All done!	06:46
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd323ad1 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.4 development. - http://bit.ly/9NFGdY	06:47
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+perlDreamer	'night, all	07:31
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targz	Is there a beta or source of WebGUI 8 that can be downloaded?	14:27
+bartjol	sure	14:33
+bartjol	well	14:33
+bartjol	somewhere around here	14:34
+bartjol	http://github.com/plainblack/webgui	14:34
+bartjol	mmm, webgui8 does not seem to have a package	14:34
+MrHairgrease	nope, you'll have to clone it from github	14:35
+bartjol	targz I'm afraid you have to clone that with git	14:35
+MrHairgrease	there are no packages since there's been no release yet	14:36
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targz	Can't see anything other than 7.10 on github	15:39
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+MrHairgrease	targz, you'll have to check out the WebGUI8 branch	15:44
+MrHairgrease	http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/tree/WebGUI8	15:44
targz	Thanks. That's better.	15:45
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:34
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@frodwith	is there any way (besides mucking with the database by hand) to clear cache for namespaces other than the default namespace?	18:17
@frodwith	also, if someone could explain to me 1) what the point of having different namespaces for the cache is, 2) why we don't clear all of them with the clear cache button in the admin console	18:20
@frodwith	i'd be much obliged	18:20
Haarg	so that things like rss feeds can be cached across the server instead of per site	18:29
Haarg	no there isn't a way to clear it other than manually	18:29
Haarg	it only really makes sense for the file cache	18:29
Haarg	it's a consequence of other design decisions and mostly has little reason to exist	18:29
@frodwith	Well, it probably makes sense for memcached too if you had multiple sites sharing the same memcached instance	18:30
Haarg	yeah but the amount of data being shared is pretty minimal	18:31
@frodwith	we could add a getNamespaces method to the api and put up a button for each namespace on the admin console page	18:31
Haarg	maybe. although i'm not sure anyone would ever want to go in and clear one without clearing all of them.	18:32
Haarg	and for the database cache for example they are all segregated per site anyway so the namespacing really adds nothing	18:33
@frodwith	nod	18:33
Haarg	it's basically just that the button shouldn't just be calling purge, but doing something else. and there would need to be a way to get a list of namespaces.	18:36
Haarg	for the file cache at least	18:36
@frodwith	or just adding a purgeAll method to the api rather than a getNamespaces method.	18:37
Haarg	yeah	18:40
Haarg	file cache would internally need to keep track of namespaces for that	18:40
Haarg	although it also opens up for sites to have effects on other sites on the same server	18:41
Haarg	not sure how important that is	18:41
@frodwith	yeah, it's just cache, so probably not tooo bad	18:41
Haarg	the web service client used a separate cache as well when it still existed	18:41
Haarg	and i know it would bloat out terribly	18:41
Haarg	because it would never get cleared	18:42
+danny_mk	preaction: Is the authType=... parameter supposed to override the defaults user Authentication Method?	19:02
elnino_	I have a style that has an assetproxy to a snippet. and the snippet has an assetproxy to a navasset. when I view the site, I get a "edit button" for the navasset (but no other buttons). I would like to see the edit button for the other AssetProxys I used in that snippet as well. Is the navasset given a special provision Or did I do something unknowingly to get that "edit button"?	19:14
Haarg	snippets don't include the toolbar when included with an assetproxy	19:22
Haarg	that behavior can't be changed without altering the code	19:23
Haarg	navigations do have a special provision to include just the icon and the edit button	19:25
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elnino_	Thanks Haarg. Do you know if there is a special macro I can use to be able to provide a edit button for images inside of the snippet that is assetproxed in a template?	20:13
Haarg	how are the images included in the snippet?	20:13
elnino_	ha. that's a good question. I think I'm doing them directly now.. ok. back up. I'll tell you what i'm doing.	20:15
elnino_	I have a video on our site, but its the style template because they want it on every page.	20:15
elnino_	but he also wants to be able to change out the video.	20:15
elnino_	the player is flash, so the snippet it the <object> code stuff	20:16
elnino_	and I was hoping there is a why to give him a edit button to change out the swf.	20:16
elnino_	so I was thinking maybe I could change the snippet into a filepile template	20:17
elnino_	and then assetproxy the file into the styletemplate.	20:17
Haarg	yeah, that would probably be the way to do that	20:17
elnino_	but I won't get a "edit" button still.	20:17
Haarg	you should	20:18
Haarg	if you assetproxy in a file asset it should include the toolbar	20:19
elnino_	I should? oh. that would be wonderful. I thought I did things like that before.	20:19
elnino_	I'll give it a go.	20:19
elnino_	thanks@	20:19
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+perlDreamer	frodwith, does your HT -> TT converter handle HT filter/escape code?	22:01
@frodwith	strangely enough, it does.	22:01
+perlDreamer	how do I peek at the source to avoid asking you bad questions in the future?	22:02
+perlDreamer	bad = already answered, poorly considered, etc.	22:02
@frodwith	http://github.com/frodwith/html-template-templatetoolkit/blob/master/lib/HTML/Template/TemplateToolkit.pm	22:02
+perlDreamer	beautiful	22:03
Haarg	line 216 looks a bit off	22:16
Haarg	also might make sense to have it use Template::Plugin::JavaScript for that even though it adds a dependency to the result. maybe optionally.	22:17
Haarg	although it looks like that module might be buggy	22:17
Haarg	weee	22:17
@frodwith	ahh yes, it does look a bit off	22:17
@frodwith	'\\\\'' => "\\\\'"	22:18
@frodwith	eh?	22:18
+perlDreamer	needs tests	22:19
@frodwith	oh agreed	22:19
@frodwith	please write some	22:19
+perlDreamer	that's very doable, starting in about 2 weeks	22:20
+perlDreamer	it's even modularized for easy testing	22:21
@frodwith	the plan was to write tests eventually ;)	22:21
@frodwith	I'm not really sure where I found time to write that in the first place though	22:21
@frodwith	I think i was consumed by a "MUST DO IT" fever	22:22
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Haarg	another thing with that convertor - it won't work on a lot of webgui templates because of global_vars	22:33
@frodwith	yeah.	22:36
@frodwith	dun think there's much way around that though.	22:37
Haarg	couldn't you just use FOREACH without specifying a target variable?	22:40
@frodwith	no, because of the way the tt stash works	22:40
@frodwith	say we've got...	22:40
@frodwith	[ { foo: bar, bar: baz }, { foo: null, bar: something } ]	22:41
@frodwith	with no target variable, the first time through the loop you get: bar baz	22:41
@frodwith	and the second time you get: bar something	22:41
@frodwith	er, make that second hash into just { bar: something }	22:41
@frodwith	[% loop = [ { foo => 'foo', bar => 'bar' }, { baz => 'baz' } ] %]	22:43
@frodwith	[% FOREACH loop %]$foo $bar $baz[% END %]	22:43
@frodwith	=> foo bar foo bar baz	22:44
@frodwith	the variables aren't scoped to the loop. Hence the contextualization.	22:44
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Haarg	[% FOREACH item IN blah %][% FOREACH [ item ] %] ... [% END;END %]	23:10
Haarg	please don't kill me :(	23:10
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@frodwith	[% loop = [ { foo => 'foo', bar => 'bar' }, { baz => 'baz' } ] %]	23:15
@frodwith	[% FOREACH item IN loop %][% FOREACH [item] %]$foo $bar $baz[% END;END %]	23:15
@frodwith	=> foo bar bar baz	23:15
Haarg	doesn't do that for me	23:19
@frodwith	what's it do for you?	23:19
Haarg	foo bar baz	23:20
@frodwith	perl -MTemplate -e 'print $Template::VERSION'	23:20
@frodwith	2.22	23:20
Haarg	yes	23:20
Haarg	how are you actually running it?	23:20
@frodwith	ah ah ah	23:21
@frodwith	one sec, i think i see the problem	23:21
@frodwith	yeah, my bad. I had vars coming in from somewhere else.	23:22
@frodwith	so it looks like that works!	23:22
@frodwith	a -smidge- unwieldy, but hey	23:22
Haarg	yeah it's nasty but it does seem to work	23:23
cj	hey folks	23:23
Haarg	hey cj	23:23
cj	I need to install wgd on my debian box	23:23
cj	so I can edit templates without having to copy/paste content from firefox into emacs	23:24
cj	the copy buffer isn't large enough and I have to stitch it back together.	23:24
cj	not a good way to make things work, IMHO	23:24
Haarg	yeah i hate working on templates in the web interface	23:25
+perlDreamer	cj, http://haarg.org/wgd	23:26
+perlDreamer	will get you a copy of wgd	23:26
+perlDreamer	fully self contained, and able to be auto-updated	23:26
@frodwith	cj, there's also firefox addons that let you edit textareas in your favorite editor.	23:26
cj	I don't want it self-contained ;)	23:26
cj	I want it to work with my already-installed-and-working one	23:26
cj	frodwith: ah, right. I'll install that. probably best way	23:27
+perlDreamer	cj, if you already have wgd installed, why did you ask?	23:27
cj	perlDreamer: I have webgui installed, not wgd.	23:28
cj	sorry for the confusion	23:28
+perlDreamer	they're separate entities	23:28
+perlDreamer	a self-contained wgd is exactly what you want	23:28
Haarg	the only real difference between using the self contained version and the modular version is that the upgrade process is different	23:29
Haarg	frodwith, something i just thought of with WebGUI::Fork	23:32
Haarg	in forkAndExec it uses map {"-I$_"} @INC	23:33
Haarg	but @INC can have things in it other than file paths	23:33
@frodwith	like code, for instance	23:33
Haarg	yeah	23:33
@frodwith	in which case I suppose you'd get -ICODE(0XDEADBEEF) on the command line	23:34
@frodwith	which doesn't break	23:34
Haarg	probably wouldn't actually cause a problem because that would never exist as a file path	23:34
@frodwith	i don't think	23:34
@scrottie	cj, 'wgd edit' is what you want. that big gnarly string, gGAyYyM2-pdwHY7MH5WkQg, as the assetId of the template.	23:34
@frodwith	but yeah, could throw a grep { !ref } in there or something	23:35
@scrottie	export EDITOR=emacs; wgd edit 'gGAyYyM2-pdwHY7MH5WkQg'	23:35
Haarg	with the chdir you might want to rel2abs the paths as well although anyone expecting a relative path in @INC to work properly is asking for trouble	23:36
Haarg	wgd edit will also accept URLs	23:36
Haarg	or asset class names if you want to create assets	23:36
cj	scrottie: I have had success with "it's all text"	23:37
@scrottie	yeah, I sent that guy some money and he sent me a nice thank you =)	23:38
cj	cool	23:38
@frodwith	haarg, head to http://www.webgui.org/ht_to_tt and try <tmpl_loop my_loop><tmpl_var global></tmpl_loop>	23:39
@frodwith	that'll work nicely I think :)	23:40
Haarg	might make sense to combine the first two template blocks or split the end ones actually	23:41
Haarg	to make it consistant	23:41
@frodwith	can you combine the first two?	23:41
Haarg	probably?	23:41
@frodwith	heh	23:41
Haarg	with a semicolon like the ENDs	23:41
@frodwith	I was sort of surpised [% END; END %] worked	23:41
Haarg	i haven't tested it but see no reason it wouldn't work	23:42
@frodwith	seems to work	23:42
cj	hurm... it's all text doesn't recognize the html element as a text field	23:43
@frodwith	which html element?	23:44
@scrottie	there should be a little editor toggle button below the textarea thingy	23:44
@scrottie	does that make it work, I wonder?	23:44
cj	under 'code editor'	23:44
@frodwith	yeah, you have to toggle the code editor off.	23:44
cj	http://www.colliertech.org/~cjac/tmp/Screenshot-WebGUI%20-%20Admin%20Console%20-%20Iceweasel.png	23:44
@frodwith	which I believe there's some sort of global setting for	23:45
cj	ok. how? :)	23:45
cj	where?	23:45
@frodwith	make preaction answer	23:45
@frodwith	the code editor is -his- aborted brainchild	23:45
cj	HALP!	23:46
@frodwith	haarg: semicolon-goodness now.	23:46
cj	preaction: HOW DO I TURN THIS OFF!? :)	23:46
@frodwith	cj: what version of webgui are you on, anywho?	23:47
cj	how do I check?	23:47
cj	scrottie: help?	23:47
@scrottie	sorry, the editor toggle must be a WebGUI 8 thing.	23:47
@frodwith	view source and grep for version	23:47
@frodwith	there's been a toggle as long as there's been a code editor, i think.	23:48
@frodwith	but it might be in a different place	23:48
cj	content="WebGUI 7.7.21"	23:48
Haarg	the toggle went away with the yui code editor iirc	23:48
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Haarg	it might have been added back in later though	23:49
@frodwith	7.7.21, huh? That's right around the time when there briefly wasn't a toggle	23:49
@frodwith	you can kill preaction.	23:49
cj	that's so awesome that I'm in pain.	23:49
cj	now what am I going to do for eyes?	23:49
@scrottie	cj, use wgd edit =P	23:50
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@frodwith	let me hunt for the setting real quick	23:50
cj	ok. I've got a training session until 5. I will check in during the class. Let me know when there's something I can use :)	23:51
cj	it's 1:52	23:52
cj	so 3 hours	23:52
@frodwith	meh, neither demo nor beta has a code editor any more	23:52
@frodwith	but on a brighter note, ht_to_tt should work for more templates out of the box now. Hooray haarg!	23:53
cj	if nothing else works, I'll find the offensive javascript and put a premature return() somewhere	23:54
@frodwith	you could probably kill it with a userscript as well	23:54
cj	ah. disabling javascript does it	23:54
* cj wins		23:54
@frodwith	which would be a fun diversion	23:54
@frodwith	my @inc = map {"-I$_"} map { File::Spec->rel2abs($_) } grep { !ref } @INC;	23:58
@frodwith	or so, eh haarg?	23:58
Haarg	seems good yeah	23:59
cj	alright. I installed the GTK+ emacs thingy and I am able to pull up the code	23:59
cj	ok. I'm going idle for a while	23:59
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+perlDreamer	hey, lay off preaction	01:14
+perlDreamer	we pulled the Code editor out in stable	01:14
+perlDreamer	just upgrade and quit griping about it	01:14
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rfad4b6d / (2 files in 2 dirs): Escape DataForm data sent via email. Fixes bug #11920 - http://bit.ly/c4yBI9	01:16
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CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r55994c4 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Escape DataForm data sent via email. Fixes bug #11920 - http://bit.ly/93I6lU	01:19
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CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r42b4f2b / (3 files in 3 dirs): Better template for DataForm email, with 1 table for each tab (or untab). Fixes bug #11921. - http://bit.ly/cX2SvF	01:42
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * re27e520 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Better template for DataForm email, with 1 table for each tab (or untab). Fixes bug #11921. - http://bit.ly/brOAlR	01:44
CIA-56	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7b75a5c / docs/templates.txt : Fix a version typo. - http://bit.ly/8Zo3b9	01:44
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Getty	hiho guys! :)	16:51
Getty	someone of the Facebook::Graph responsible dudes here? :)	16:51
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+perlDreamer	oh, the joys of receiving 2000 bounce notices per day...	17:36
@khenn	Getty: the guy who wrote Facebook::Graph doesn't usually linger here	17:37
Getty	oh	17:38
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Getty	bad :) but sometimes?	17:39
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@khenn	I'd say almost never	17:42
@khenn	probably have to email him	17:42
Getty	baeh i hate email exchange ;) but seems the last option, even tho i dont actually know what i want, just to link to him cause i "restarted" the Facebook namespace on CPAN	17:43
@khenn	he's pretty responsive about his stuff	17:46
Getty	thats always good	17:47
Getty	and you guys? how are you? :)	17:53
+perlDreamer	we never talk to anyone	18:04
+perlDreamer	we just leave AI bots in an IRC channel	18:04
Getty	you lie!	18:04
Getty	we already talked!	18:04
+perlDreamer	I have been written to emulate human conversation very well in an IRC channel	18:13
Getty	i can kill your system with a recursion	18:14
Getty	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M	18:14
plainhao	i've met khenn, he's a well-written bot	18:21
@khenn	heh	18:21
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+perlDreamer	scrottie0: which env variable do you set to get Make to append to its own CCFLAGS?	19:48
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scrottie0	make doesn't, as far as I know.. that's an autoconf thing...	20:10
scrottie0	./configure reads them and stuffs them into the Makefile it generates	20:11
scrottie0	which would explain why Module::Build doens't honor them	20:11
+perlDreamer	so, really, we need to hand hack the Makefile	20:25
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Getty	is there some documentation block or something (and a link) i can integrate into Facebook::Manual to point user how to use Facebook stuff in WebGUI?	20:40
+perlDreamer	no clue, Getty.	20:40
+perlDreamer	only rizen has delved into that black magic	20:41
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@khenn	Getty: I believe JT recently integrated Facebook with the Collaboration system in WebGUI	20:52
@khenn	he may have put that out in the contributions section however	20:52
@khenn	as opposed to the core	20:52
@khenn	yep	20:53
@khenn	check it out here:	20:53
@khenn	http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/facebook-publisher	20:53
Getty	i have no clue of WebGUI, i just would like to offer you guys a way to promote WebGUI on this central Facebook Manual eheh	20:54
Getty	i embed that link	20:54
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@khenn	k	21:29
@khenn	thanks =)	21:29
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SDuensin	FrIdAy!	16:46
Getty	that doesnt make it better	16:47
+bartjol	why not	16:49
+bartjol	I had a very nice upgrading day today	16:49
SDuensin	I'd like to upgrade to a nap, please.	16:50
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Getty	btw the facebook manual i mentioned is online on CPAN ;) http://search.cpan.org/perldoc/Facebook::Manual	16:52
+bartjol	is taht for a facebook login?	16:53
Getty	that is for all	16:53
Getty	its a start of a general facebook developing documentation	16:53
Getty	for now you can see all facebook modules on CPAN	16:53
+bartjol	nice	16:54
Getty	thanks	16:55
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cj	o/	19:10
scrottie	heya cj	19:10
cj	so... when I use the it's-all-text plug-in, I get the content of the template html-encoded	19:10
scrottie	I'm unclear why you're not using 'wgd edit'...	19:11
cj	scrottie: I don't have wgd installed	19:12
cj	and if I installed it, I don't know how to make it play nice with the stuff I've got running in /data/Web*	19:12
Haarg	it uses whatever perl is in $PATH	19:13
Haarg	or you can always change the shebang yourself	19:14
Haarg	and it will use the webgui libs that you specify	19:14
Haarg	if you specify WEBGUI_ROOT or use the -R option it will use those options	19:14
scrottie	I can e-shouldersurf you and help you get it set up. I'm pretty sure it'll save time in the long run and short run.	19:14
Haarg	or if you specify a full path to a config file, it will figure out the root directory from that	19:14
Haarg	you might try looking at 'wgd intro'	19:15
Haarg	it should explain how to get it up and running	19:15
Haarg	and if it doesn't	19:15
Haarg	let me know so i can improve the docs	19:15
scrottie	Haarg kicks ass. wgd is documented, self documenting, well maintained, well designed, and sane.	19:16
scrottie	wish I could say the same of libapreq2.	19:16
Haarg	ugh	19:16
scrottie	sorry =)	19:17
Haarg	last time i had to deal with apreq2 there was nothing i could do to fix the issue and had to redirect the user using mod_rewrite if they had a particular cookie	19:17
scrottie	I'm used to having to reinstall it now and then because it randomly decides to corrupt itself, but right now, it isn't reinstalling.	19:18
cj	scrottie: what do you think WEBGUI_ROOT should be? We have a couple of directories under /data/Web*	19:19
scrottie	/data/WebGUI/etc/<whatever>.conf	19:20
cj	thanks, guys. Scottie, how do you feel about ssh'ing to a server on a relatively good link and screen -x from there?	19:20
scrottie	but not log.conf... the one that's almost certainly named after a domain	19:20
scrottie	s/Scottie/scrottie/ =)	19:20
cj	isn't that WEBGUI_CONF?	19:21
cj	scrottie: sorry. I usually do tab completion.	19:21
scrottie	WEBGUI_CONFIG, and yes. sorry.	19:21
cj	so what's WEBGUI_ROOT?	19:21
scrottie	/data/WebGUI/etc/. I haven't tried that so I can't vouch for it. I always do WEBGUI_CONFIG.	19:21
scrottie	re: ssh and screen -x, can do.	19:21
Haarg	basically, you can specify a root separately from the config file	19:22
Haarg	but usually you don't need to	19:23
cj	scrottie: alrighty. got a ssh pub key around somewhere?	19:25
cj	Haarg: alrighty. if I can pull it in from the config, I'm happier.	19:25
scrottie	http://gist.github.com/622726	19:25
cj	scrottie: poking holes in firewall. nearly done.	19:35
cj	alrighty. try ssh -p 2204 -A router0.colliertech.org	19:40
scrottie	moving to /msg	19:41
cj	orite	19:43
cj	oh, and take the -A out of the command	19:48
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cj	Haarg: is there any way to tell wgd that a template has been edited and that it should write the contents back to the db?	20:14
cj	or does that only happen when the editor exits?	20:14
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+perlDreamer	right now, it only happens on exit	20:45
+perlDreamer	but !wgd will do the right thing	20:45
+perlDreamer	or, try using Padre, which can connect to a live WebGUI site via a GUI	20:46
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Haarg	cj, that only happens when you exit. one of the features that's been requested before but i haven't implemented yet.	20:56
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scrottie	oh, hey. we were just talking about you =)	21:23
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cj	is that pat?	21:32
* cj guesses n		21:33
cj	o	21:33
+perlDreamer	patspam == Patrick Donelan, master of mischief, Padre, Plack and Perl	21:34
patspam	ahoy!	21:34
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patspam	I'm installing perlbrew onto my iphone	21:34
+perlDreamer	because you need multiple perls on your iphone?	21:36
+perlDreamer	or just for the coolness of it?	21:37
patspam	I want to be able to build my own, rather than relying on http://coredev.nl/	21:37
+perlDreamer	I'm either 5 minutes, or 5 hours from having Class::Inside pulled out of Crud	21:43
+perlDreamer	only testing and time will tell	21:43
+perlDreamer	technically, it's already pulled out, it's just a question of how well the replacement works	21:43
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patspam	great article on perl.com about lucana	22:49
patspam	and a look inside the mind of JT	22:50
patspam	read it if you dare!	22:50
patspam	meanwhile, looks like apple has managed to prevent people key parts of the iphone toolchain (libgcc)	22:51
patspam	making it a lot more work to get a functioning compiler inside the phone	22:52
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cj	patspam: ohai :)	23:13
patspam	hi!	23:13
patspam	cj: are you new to #webgui?	23:15
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cj	patspam: I are ;)	23:24
--- Day changed Sat Oct 23 2010
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cj	looks like emacsclient makes this sort of thing work	00:10
cj	alright, so how do I convert the HTML::Template template to Template::Toolkit ?	00:11
Haarg	http://www.webgui.org/ht_to_tt possibly this	00:13
Haarg	which is using this http://github.com/frodwith/html-template-templatetoolkit/	00:14
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cj	alright. I've passed it through that	00:28
cj	but I don't have a TT option in the Template Type pulldown	00:29
Haarg	that has to be added to the config file	00:29
cj	okay. what's it look like?	00:29
Haarg	add WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit to templateParsers	00:31
cj	thanks	00:32
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cj	alright. the conversion didn't work	01:36
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+perlDreamer	it didn't work?	01:48
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+perlDreamer	cj, please paste that template	01:48
scrottie	did you ask about frodwith's template converter?	01:49
+perlDreamer	cj said that the conversion didn't work	01:49
+perlDreamer	so I'd like to see that template	01:49
+perlDreamer	either to fix what's wrong	01:49
scrottie0	ah. didn't know if he did it by hand or with that.	01:49
+perlDreamer	or so we can laugh at it	01:49
cj	perlDreamer: sure	01:50
cj	http://www.colliertech.org/~cjac/tmp/bar	01:51
@preaction	er, that's not a TT template	01:52
+perlDreamer	no, that's the original	01:52
+perlDreamer	what's the output, cj?	01:52
cj	ah, I'm not supposed to paste the whole thing into that converter?	01:52
@preaction	no, just the template bit	01:52
+perlDreamer	yeah, what he said	01:53
cj	that might essplain things, you know...	01:53
+perlDreamer	perhaps	01:53
Haarg	maybe, but i wouldn't expect the converter to mess up any of the other stuff in that	01:53
Haarg	i think the javascript on that converter page is busted	01:55
Haarg	it's messing up plusses	01:55
cj	http://www.colliertech.org/~cjac/tmp/foo	01:56
cj	shrug I'll just do it right	01:56
Haarg	the javascript on that page should be using encodeURIComponent instead of escape	01:56
cj	alright, so how do I fix the broken encoding manually?	02:16
cj	<td><a href="#" onclick='return do_edit_notes("[% userId %]", [% (notes_json \| html) %].value)' >[% notes_truncated %]</a></td>	02:31
cj	2010/10/22 16:33:30 - ERROR - dev.localhost.localdomain.conf - WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit::process[84] - file error - parse error - input text line 153: unexpected token (\|)	02:31
@frodwith	wha wha?	02:36
@frodwith	what's broken?	02:36
cj	it would help if I knew TT better than I do :) anyone feel like writing a plugin for HTML::Mason? :)	02:36
@preaction	fft, mason...	02:38
cj	nya.	02:38
@preaction	we're trying to improve performance here, not disprove it!	02:38
cj	disprove! Ha ;)	02:38
cj	yeah, alright. that's certainly a problem.	02:38
@preaction	to that end, i want Text::XSlate	02:39
cj	not familiar with that one	02:39
@preaction	crazy fast, and has a tt-like syntax (or a smarty-like syntax for those overblow-template-language developers)	02:39
cj	so, it doesn't like (notes_json \| html)	02:40
cj	that comes from <tmpl_var notes_json escape=html>.value	02:42
@preaction	it should be [% notes_json \| html %] i think	02:42
cj	is there a module I'm missing that allows TT to do filtering?	02:42
* cj tries pulling the ()		02:42
@preaction	there probably is, but i'm not sure how it would work with webgui	02:43
cj	uhgm... I meant is it a prereq that I'm missing	02:43
cj	'cuz it looks like [% notes_json \| html %] is a 'encode as html' filter	02:44
cj	and seems to be what's breaking	02:44
cj	however	02:44
cj	removing the parens seems to have fixed it ;)	02:44
cj	alright. I need to create a landing page sort of template that will just print json for consumption by yui ajax javascript mabob	02:45
+perlDreamer	what?	02:53
+perlDreamer	printing JSON?	02:53
+perlDreamer	like to_json($data)?	02:53
cj	well, creating a new template	02:54
+perlDreamer	one does not need a template to create JSON	02:54
cj	and I'll need to know what the url of the new template will be so I can issue requests to it from js	02:54
+perlDreamer	from JS, you don't call template, you call www_ methods in WebGUI	02:54
cj	oh?	02:54
+perlDreamer	yes	02:54
cj	examples?	02:55
cj	sounds interesting...	02:55
+perlDreamer	from JS, you make a call to, say, getJsonData	02:55
+perlDreamer	in WebGUI, that gets mapped to www_getJsonData	02:55
+perlDreamer	inside www_getJsonData, you get data, $data	02:55
+perlDreamer	then convert it to JSON	02:55
+perlDreamer	my $json = JSON::to_json($data)	02:55
+perlDreamer	then return $json, and you're done	02:55
@preaction	cj: have you gotten the dev guide yet? http://www.webgui.org/uploads/7c/7e/7c7e03b240a4a0b56c3641e76de0fb07/Developers-Guide.pdf <- see the chapter on Assets and Wobjects for how www_methods work with ?func=	02:56
+perlDreamer	www_getJsonData should also do permission checks on user access, and all sorts of other wonderful stuff	02:56
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SquOnk	Greetings	02:56
+perlDreamer	yo, SquOnk	02:56
cj	preaction: I have gotten it. haven't had time to read it, though. I've been reading specs and the client's code...	02:56
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Hey	02:57
+perlDreamer	I hear that 7.8 is booted out of Squeeze?	02:57
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Yep	02:57
cj	wut? why!?	02:57
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Can't guarantee backports for future security vulnerabilities...	02:57
cj	oh, is 7.8 not the latest version?	02:57
SquOnk	perlDreamer: But 7.9.16 will be in Sid on sunday and it's installable on Squeeze via pinning. I'll post a howto in the wiki when my Copious Free Time (c) allows	02:58
+perlDreamer	cj, 7.9 is the latest stable	02:58
SquOnk	Speaking of free time...	02:58
SquOnk	I managed to set up an S3 bucket and wrote my own perl wrapper around s3cmd to add/remove content there...	02:59
SquOnk	...tweaked webgui.conf accordingly and I'm currently running syncToCdn	02:59
+perlDreamer	that needs to be rewritten from scratch	02:59
SquOnk	My first question is: does syncToCdn alter the URL of each collateral to point to the CDN?	03:00
SquOnk	My second question is: if I have a new upload, webgui will serve it from the local file system until syncToCdn does is thing in the next run?	03:00
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, I have no idea. The CDN stuff is not well tested or documented.	03:02
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I see.	03:02
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Well, syncToCdn seems to be working in the sense that I see all the uploads being moved into my bucket @ Amazon's	03:02
@preaction	this is a problem with too much stuff... so if you do figure out how it works, please submit doc patches so we might help others	03:02
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, I would guess that, until syncToCdn runs, that your CDN would be out of date.	03:04
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Yep, I'm waiting for that before further testing...	03:04
cj	hurm...	03:08
cj	[% FOREACH item IN rct; FOREACH [item] %]	03:08
cj	what is $_ called in TT?	03:08
@preaction	[% _ %] maybe? but i think $_ doesn't exist in TT	03:08
cj	maybe I don't understand the syntax there... 'FOREACH item IN rct;' is in the man page	03:09
cj	but I don't see anything that looks like 'FOREACH [item]'	03:09
@preaction	foreach subitem in item	03:09
@preaction	the translater might be messing with you	03:09
cj	sigh	03:10
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cj	why might the variable I pass to processTemplate not be updated after I update it (hardcode a new value) in the .pm that calls it?	03:35
cj	I tried re-starting apache, but still no go	03:35
@preaction	are you sure the right method is being called?	03:37
@preaction	add some tracing debug, $session->log->info("Hi, I'm an info message");	03:38
@preaction	make sure your loglevel is set to INFO, in WebGUI/etc/log.conf	03:38
cj	okay	03:39
cj	yeah, I guess not.	03:42
cj	but the data structure that it's building up and passing in to the template looks right...	03:42
cj	maybe I've got the path wrong...	03:42
@preaction	are you on a page layout with the asset inside of it? if so, you're in sub view {}. if you're at the asset, you're in sub www_view {}. if you have a ?func=, you're in sub www_<func=>	03:43
cj	looks like I found it	03:46
cj	2010/10/22 17:49:07 - INFO - dev.localhost.localdomain.conf - WebGUI::Account::NeTC::RCT::www_view[434] - Hi, I'm an info message	03:46
cj	things should move along much more smoothly now ;)	03:46
@preaction	should mention that the default sub www_view {} ends up calling sub view {}	03:50
@preaction	so if you want something in a normal asset view, put it in view()	03:50
@preaction	that's the dual nature of assets: they can be in Layouts, but they can also stand alone. it confuses more than developers.	03:51
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@khenn	happy Saturday to all	21:58
cj	thanks ;)	23:33
cj	how's things going for you?	23:33
@khenn	workin on a saturday	23:34
@khenn	you know ...	23:34
cj	yeah. I know ;)	23:40
cj	I've gotten some json dumped to the template in a <script...>...</script> block. I'll see if I can shape it into the same shape as the extjs widget instantiation method expects.	23:42
--- Day changed Sun Oct 24 2010
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* scrottie0 stares at http://i.imgur.com/PyT3D.gif, mesmerized		01:45
cj	my web server is running sluggishly	02:35
cj	probably has something to do with moving all of its storage from local sata disks to AoE	02:36
cj	the dom0 hosting it is burning up the CPU decoding the ATA packets :(	02:36
cj	ah. that was due to swap thrash maybe. looks like my modification of a .pm made apache spin out of control.	02:39
cj	yeah. code re-structure was a little... loopy ;)	03:03
cj	so, if I create a www_moo function that returns "moo", how do I get apache to hand "moo" back to my browser?	03:07
cj	what should my URL look like, that is	03:09
scrottie	pass func=moo in the GET string and in www_moo, return 'moo'	03:15
scrottie	it's really hard to type moo, not foo.	03:15
scrottie	more complete scenario: let's say you're calling /animals/cow?func=moo	03:16
scrottie	at some point, either in code or with the UI, someone created an asset and set its URL to be /animals/cow	03:16
scrottie	when they did that, they specified the asset type... probably something under /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset or /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject, or possibily in another codebase specified by preload.custom but in a namespace under WebGUI::Asset	03:17
scrottie	those .pm's have nice names... "Wiki", "Collaboration", "Photo Gallery", etc, but they're all just objects. that is, they have nice names if you add them by way of the UI	03:17
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scrottie	to figure out which .pm is being used for a url, do something like this (cut and paste this somewhere and save it): select className from asset left join assetData on asset.assetId = assetData.assetId where url = ?	03:20
scrottie	or go to the URL and add ?func=edit while you're logged in as admin then go to the metadata tab.	03:21
scrottie	and yes, there is a www_edit or two buried in the code =)	03:22
scrottie	there's stuff about session (it gets passed, it's the gateway to everything else) but I'll save that for when you're confirmed interactived.	03:31
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cj	so if the url that prints the asset is...	03:45
cj	?op=account;module=abc;do=def	03:46
cj	would the new one look like	03:46
cj	?op=account;module=abc;do=def;func=moo ?	03:46
scrottie	could... usually you don't need a module=	03:47
scrottie	calls just go into whichever module is in the database for the path part of the URL	03:47
scrottie	and the 'do' part... I'm not sure if you want to keep that.	03:48
scrottie	that looks like it belongs to something else.	03:48
scrottie	erm...	03:48
scrottie	but you're doing op=	03:49
scrottie	that means that you're really (or additionally) interacting with a content manager (WebGUI::ContentManager::*), not an asset.	03:49
scrottie	the rules are different.	03:49
scrottie	and you're not just calling a content manager, you're hitting the Account content manager, and it has this funky dispatch system. it uses the func and do parameters.	03:50
scrottie	you don't get to use func=moo or create a www_moo. sorry =(	03:50
scrottie	which module is module= actually pointing to, if not abc? feel free to /msg	03:51
cj	alright, well, I need to create a landing point for the ajax json fetches	03:52
scrottie	well, whatever module= is specified as, look through your .conf file in /data/WebGUI/etc in the "account" : [ section. find the matching identifier. that specifies the module the request gets routed to.	03:53
scrottie	then, I'm going to guess that the do= specifies the function to call.	03:54
scrottie	$self->session is then your gateway to the universe, if you read $self as the first param.	03:54
cj	how does one print something to the stream that the browser gets without the headers or footers, etc?	04:08
scrottie	looks like it's differnet for content handlers. in this case, $self->session->http->getMimeType() to whatever and call something other than 'view' with do=	04:23
@khenn	cj:	04:54
@khenn	op=account tells WebGUI you are using an account plugin	04:54
@khenn	module=abc tells WebGUI to load the abc module	04:54
@khenn	you tie this to a class in the config file	04:54
@khenn	do=def tells WebGUI to call the www_def method in the abc module	04:55
@khenn	hope that is clear	04:55
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cj	alrighty... how do I tell webgui to emit something without the header/footer?	21:02
cj	http://www.colliertech.org/~cjac/tmp/Screenshot-Anxiety%20Online%20-%20-%20Iceweasel.png	21:03
cj	^^ not exactly what I wanted	21:03
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cj	hey there khenn	21:25
@khenn	hey	21:26
@khenn	did you check skype?	21:26
cj	yep	21:27
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cj	how do I insert a <link/> into the <head> element?	22:19
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+perlDreamer	will you guys keep it down? I'm trying to work!	00:58
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@preaction	cj: $session->style->setLink()	03:44
* scrottie pasted some examples at him too		03:58
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CIA-57	webgui: Bart Jol WebGUI8 * rd11cd6f / lib/WebGUI/Content/Asset.pm : Changed package name in POD - http://bit.ly/ctFWoO	19:02
@preaction	wooo! go bart!	19:03
+perlDreamer	yeah, now if only he'd backport it to master and 7.9 branches :P	19:06
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rafb9efc / (3 files in 3 dirs): Change the URL for the Template Variable help template. Fixes bug #11922 - http://bit.ly/dcycoB	19:06
@preaction	eh, those aren't really necessary	19:07
* perlDreamer 's head spins		19:07
+perlDreamer	you sure about that, boss?	19:07
@preaction	backporting bart's doc fix to previous versions	19:07
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r5178d93 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Change the URL for the Template Variable help template. Fixes bug #11922 - http://bit.ly/b2hYC3	19:08
+perlDreamer	if we're ignoring bad documents in WebGUI 7, does that mean we can also ignore bugs :D ?	19:12
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@preaction	no, webgui 7 is almost almost almost deaders	19:19
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@preaction	so I was having problems with the old PurgeOldTrash, but why does the old PurgeOldTrash leak memory like that? it was an interator over a sql handle	20:02
@preaction	the purgeoldrevisions does exactly the same thing and doesn't leak like that	20:02
+perlDreamer	PurgeOldTrash didn't leak memory, it would go into an infinite loop over badly placed shortcuts	20:15
+perlDreamer	but it acted the same way as what you're seeing now	20:15
+perlDreamer	the thing I don't get about PurgeOldAssetRevisions is that there's nothing really in there to leak	20:16
+perlDreamer	sql: read	20:16
+perlDreamer	Asset->new	20:16
+perlDreamer	getCurrentRevisionCount	20:16
+perlDreamer	getRevisionCount	20:16
+perlDreamer	purgeRevision	20:16
+perlDreamer	that's it	20:16
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CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rcb95250 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Prevent password fields from autocompleting, which can overwrite passwords when editing forms. Fixes bug #11923. - http://bit.ly/cnoOSZ	20:30
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb573f70 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Prevent password fields from autocompleting, which can overwrite passwords when editing forms. Fixes bug #11923. - http://bit.ly/bkprtH	20:30
+perlDreamer	preaction: I guess the other question would be, is it actually purging old revisions, or just running through all the assets?	20:32
+perlDreamer	is it hanging on 1 asset during the workflow activity?	20:33
+perlDreamer	joy, time to delve into the Thingy again	20:41
plainhao	that could be taken out of context	20:43
+perlDreamer	You don't think Thingy provides enough context to clarify?	20:49
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4f95507 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): If exportMetaData is set to false, do not print out the column lables OR values. Fixes bug #11925. - http://bit.ly/d3IG3V	20:53
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0f64843 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): If exportMetaData is set to false, do not print out the column lables OR values. Fixes bug #11925. - http://bit.ly/bdo1S5	20:53
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+perlDreamer	frodwith: what's with @stack in AssetClipboard's _wwwCopyProgress method?	21:25
plainhao	perlDreamer, looks as if frodwith is preserving the call stack	22:15
@preaction	perlDreamer: it was actually PurgeOldTrash it was bugging out on, because currentActivityId is not the current activityId, it's the previously completed activityId. it's a horrible name for that column as well	22:29
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+perlDreamer	preaction: it was still PurgeOldTrash?	23:04
+perlDreamer	what's sucking down the memory?	23:04
@preaction	no, the server had the old version of it	23:04
+perlDreamer	you gotta be kidding me	23:05
@preaction	nope	23:07
+perlDreamer	I'm an idiot	23:13
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+perlDreamer	preaction: have a gander at this: http://gist.github.com/645726	23:44
+perlDreamer	Really big Thingy's will timeout when exporting as CSV files	23:45
+perlDreamer	so I put in a progress bar	23:45
@preaction	looks perfect, exactly what i would've done	23:45
+perlDreamer	but, the progress bar wants to redirect the user to the file, which leaves the user at the progress bar for download	23:45
+perlDreamer	so I added a back to site link	23:45
+perlDreamer	is that hokey?	23:45
@preaction	nope, looks fine	23:45
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CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdcae519 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Build a progress bar for exporting data from a Thing. Fixes bug #11925. - http://bit.ly/dD3YrV	23:50
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r7cae1fd / (3 files in 3 dirs): Build a progress bar for exporting data from a Thing. Fixes bug #11925. - http://bit.ly/9W0uqT	23:51
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CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6fced77 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make the display of a textarea instead of an HTMLarea independent of whether mobile styles are configured for the site. Refixes #11902. - http://bit.ly/dhFNUQ	01:31
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r865b1c3 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make the display of a textarea instead of an HTMLarea independent of whether mobile styles are configured for the site. Refixes #11902. - http://bit.ly/ar73RF	01:32
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SDuensin	Greetings from the wind-battered midwest!	16:39
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fokat	Hi there	18:05
fokat	This is a top from one of my apache servers running webgui	18:05
fokat	1381 www-data 20 0 95472 78m 4000 S 0.0 4.7 0:00.19 apache2	18:06
fokat	95M virtual size, 70M res size, ~4M shared	18:06
fokat	do those numbers make sense? Shouldn't he shared chunk be larger?	18:06
fokat	(This is Debian, BTW)	18:06
+bartjol	eee	18:08
+bartjol	I believe those are not abnormal, but I'm not sure. It seems similar on 1 of our hosts	18:09
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@preaction	fokat: no. the perl interpreters are not shared between forked apache children. only the apache libs are shared really	18:18
@preaction	there's some good stuff here: http://modperlbook.org/html/Chapter-10-Improving-Performance-with-Shared-Memory-and-Pro.html	18:20
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fokat	Thanks bartjol and preaction	18:29
fokat	Just wanted to double check	18:29
@preaction	well, upon reading that section, it could be that the memory is being misreported	18:31
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* perlDreamer has to run to the gym		19:07
Getty	sounds ironic	19:09
Getty	http://www.coachwithjeremy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/take-the-stairs.jpg	19:10
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@preaction	seriously why the hell doesn't sourceforge have an API? a	20:02
Getty	for what?	20:19
Getty	announcing?	20:19
Getty	anyway a more or less pointless site these days	20:19
@scrottie	it's kinda the new sunsite.unc.edu.	20:20
@scrottie	no one cares a whit about it but it's where the .tar.gz's are.	20:20
@scrottie	I imagine that the software team has been under pressure to do nothing but boost ad revenue. they're probably spending all of their time running A/B tests.	20:22
@preaction	no, for finding the damn tarballs. it'd be great to list those tarballs on a real website instead of their crap website	20:22
@scrottie	I usually hit ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/distfiles first. it's a pretty good mirror of damn near everything. but sourceforge is where Google sends people so it's where people the tarballs are.	20:23
@scrottie	er, where people think the tarballs are	20:23
@preaction	WRE is only available on sf.net :(	20:24
@scrottie	good. soak up that Google Juice.	20:24
+perlDreamer	preaction: WRE is also on updates.webgui.org, I think	20:33
@preaction	ah, look at that	20:34
@preaction	update.webgui.org/wre <- magick hidden url	20:34
+perlDreamer	seekrit! Don't tell no one!	20:34
Getty	secret?	20:47
Getty	what?	20:47
Getty	can i destroy something?	20:47
@scrottie	%*$#.	20:58
@scrottie	%&, $&#, %&$.	20:59
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@preaction	ooh, a cryptogram!	20:59
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+perlDreamer	frodwith: nobody puts .html in their URLs anymore	21:03
@frodwith	perlDreamer: http://pastie.org/1250675	21:04
@frodwith	see any problems?	21:04
+perlDreamer	nope, please commit away	21:05
+perlDreamer	I'll backport if you need	21:05
@frodwith	just to 7.9, eh?	21:07
+perlDreamer	yes, only to 7.9	21:07
CIA-57	webgui: Paul Driver master * r0d46331 / (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed #11928: Story Archive breaks if url has extension - http://bit.ly/dvbetL	21:11
CIA-57	webgui: Paul Driver webgui-7.9 * ra65dd3f / (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed #11928: Story Archive breaks if url has extension - http://bit.ly/9eGZl6	21:15
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+perlDreamer	thanks frodwith!	21:27
@frodwith	:-/ my fix doesn't seem to work on this other 7.9 site though. Mumblemumblehack.	21:28
+perlDreamer	custom code?	21:29
+perlDreamer	or, do they have the URL extension setting set?	21:29
@frodwith	they do	21:29
+perlDreamer	mmm, I won't close the bug yet, then	21:29
@frodwith	thinks for a sec	21:30
@frodwith	ah, that's why.	21:30
@frodwith	I was testing for that earlier, then thought I had it covered so took the test out (cause I had introduced a new dependency to write the test)	21:30
+perlDreamer	tests don't introduce dependencies for core code	21:31
+perlDreamer	and we've historically been able to add new testing modules as needed	21:31
+perlDreamer	so, unless you're adding a new framework for code, feel free	21:31
@frodwith	the dep is Monkey::Patch	21:32
+perlDreamer	no	21:32
+perlDreamer	not a testing module	21:32
@frodwith	well, arguable	21:32
@frodwith	it's along the same lines as Test::MockObject	21:32
+perlDreamer	why not use Test::MockObject then?	21:32
@frodwith	cause it's not exactly the same, it's along the same -lines-	21:33
@frodwith	I was using it to write WebGUI::Test->overrideSetting(name => val), which would do a scoped monkeypatch on the setting object to return the value given.	21:34
@frodwith	i.e. until the handle goes out of scope, $session->setting->get('whatever') will return what you tell it to	21:34
+perlDreamer	you can also do that with the core code of WebGUI::Test->addToCleanup, because it uses Scope::Guard	21:35
+perlDreamer	although then you have to have some variable in scope to hold the guard	21:36
@frodwith	you mean addToCleanup(sub { # set it back to the old value } )	21:36
+perlDreamer	well, no, because those cleanups only happen at the end of the test	21:36
@frodwith	right.	21:36
+perlDreamer	but "along those lines" :)	21:36
@frodwith	often you just want to tweak a setting to do one test	21:36
@frodwith	so I thought it'd be a useful api	21:37
@frodwith	{ #tweak a setting and do your test in this block }	21:37
@frodwith	Monkey::Patch would be useful in all kinds of other testing situations too dreamy eyes	21:38
+perlDreamer	I usually do that manually, tweak test, restore	21:38
@frodwith	or at least, useful to me.	21:38
@frodwith	But then, that's why I wrote it.	21:38
@frodwith	preaction, can we depend on Monkey::Patch, pretty please? I actually used it a bit in my ::Fork branch as well, so...	21:39
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8b25005 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Allow Workflow activities to do cleanup when they're deleted. Fixes bug #11924. - http://bit.ly/bYVVsw	21:45
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r28aef30 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Allow Workflow activities to do cleanup when they're deleted. Fixes bug #11924. - http://bit.ly/9OCpJK	21:45
+perlDreamer	we need more people to submit bugs	21:47
+perlDreamer	because I'm running out of bugs to fix	21:47
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Getty	is my bug fixed?	22:21
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@preaction	frodwith: it seems you wrote this module...	22:58
@frodwith	yes indeed	22:59
@preaction	isn't this much like what Test::Mock does?	22:59
@frodwith	I've never used Test::Mock, actually	23:01
@frodwith	but for one, it isn't a testing framework	23:01
@frodwith	there are other valid times to monkeypatch things. Not very many, but there are some.	23:02
+perlDreamer	Getty: did you file a bug?	23:09
Getty	yes	23:09
Getty	several months ago	23:09
Getty	when i tested webgui	23:09
+perlDreamer	was it posted to the bug list?	23:13
Getty	no idea, it was the SEO bug about the homepage	23:13
+perlDreamer	Getty, you'd have to refresh my memofy	23:13
+perlDreamer	memory	23:13
Getty	that the homepage technical has 2 URLs which is horrible for SEO	23:13
+perlDreamer	that was too many bugfixes ago	23:13
+perlDreamer	that's not a bug, that's a configuration issue	23:13
Getty	could be, there are several solutions	23:14
Getty	but it needs to be tracked as problem to solve ;)	23:14
Getty	i suggest forwarding to the real url of it	23:14
Getty	and so not having / for SEO, which is ok, better would be by choice	23:15
@preaction	you mean redirecting?	23:15
+perlDreamer	Getty, the place to track it is on the buglist	23:15
+perlDreamer	we track EVERYTHING there	23:15
Getty	yes	23:15
+perlDreamer	except preaction's social calendar	23:15
Getty	redirection	23:15
Getty	perlDreamer: i did that	23:15
Getty	perlDreamer: its in the buglist	23:15
Getty	i dropped it there	23:15
+perlDreamer	I'm not seeing it there	23:17
CIA-57	webgui: Paul Driver master * re67ad18 / (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed #11929: In/Out board breaks in Chrome sometimes - http://bit.ly/aJtsCp	23:17
Getty	mh	23:17
+perlDreamer	Haarg; what's the module that crawls all your modules looking for the regex match variables $&, etc.?	23:19
Getty	do you delete accounts?	23:21
+perlDreamer	Getty, we delete accounts if the account is used to create spam in the Forum or the Wiki	23:22
Getty	no that wasnt the case	23:22
Getty	i'm 100 sure i go to your site, registered and made a ticket	23:22
Getty	so definitly sure	23:22
Getty	but its not there	23:22
Getty	and i cant see a getty in the bug search created by dropdown	23:22
Getty	i dont get it	23:22
CIA-57	webgui: Paul Driver webgui-7.9 * rdab3abf / (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed #11929: In/Out board breaks in Chrome sometimes - http://bit.ly/bw5Upw	23:22
+perlDreamer	Getty, pm me an email and I'll see if an account with that address is in the system	23:23
Getty	aehm mmhhh... @raudssus.de would it be	23:23
Getty	but i cant say which word in before i used, or its @metaluna4.de	23:23
+perlDreamer	ah, no there's an account	23:24
+perlDreamer	but no bugs	23:24
Getty	strange....	23:24
Getty	totally	23:24
Getty	definitly i was there	23:24
Getty	100%	23:24
Getty	check your IRC log	23:24
Getty	i talked with you about it	23:24
Getty	and pasted you the link	23:24
Getty	but you was not directly caring that much, was also busy time	23:24
+perlDreamer	I don't have a persistent IRC logger	23:24
Getty	ah damn, and i just activated mine some days ago ;)	23:25
+perlDreamer	and xdanger's logger doesn't seem to have picked it up	23:28
+perlDreamer	all I can find is, "perlDreamer: i'm involved into many projects and go more and more into the "oh dudes i fill up your bugtracker all day so that you will hate me" dude, even tho i dont see much wrong on your side so far"	23:29
+perlDreamer	which leads me to believe that it wasn't filed?	23:29
Getty	i saw it on my screen, i know it....	23:30
@preaction	i half-remember seeing an RFE about the home page thing	23:30
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11462	23:31
+perlDreamer	not on the buglist, on the RFE list	23:31
Getty	ah its splitted up	23:44
Getty	sorry that i didnt knew	23:44
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--- Day changed Wed Oct 27 2010
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0f2622b / lib/WebGUI/Form/HTMLArea.pm : Fix a bad merge. - http://bit.ly/atQWDp	00:13
Getty	but as said: give both options	00:13
Getty	it depends on SEO tactic if you better have / or /NameOfHomepage	00:14
@preaction	options?	00:14
Getty	the case to forward to / will be most used, /NameOfHomepage is acceptable but not the best choice	00:14
Getty	redirect / => /NameOfHomepage # option 1	00:14
Getty	redirect /NameOfHomepage => / # option 2	00:14
@preaction	but in a WebGUI context, the URL of the asset that is the home page will always be there	00:14
@preaction	imo it will be confusing if that URL never ever gets used	00:15
Getty	that is not caring, important is what is the final URL in the browser	00:15
Getty	yeah but its SEO	00:15
Getty	i cant remove that ;) you can do it however you want, just want to help, cause its a common problem	00:15
Getty	(its like the common &page=1 mistake, i hope you dont have that in)	00:15
@preaction	which is why there's a redirect. i will solve the problem, but not in such a way that it confuses users (the cure worse than the disease)	00:16
@preaction	we've got enough confusing crap already without adding more	00:16
Getty	hehe	00:16
Getty	just give a switch for that	00:16
Getty	and make it very very hidden	00:16
Getty	you dont even need to make it a switch	00:16
Getty	its a one time decision could even go into config	00:16
@preaction	actually, we'll be slowly getting rid of ?func=, but there is no evidence that query strings rank lower on SEO than any other URL	00:16
Getty	if you have 2 URLs with the same content, you get lower SEO then the ones not having that on the same general SEO value	00:17
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@preaction	yes, i get that one, it dilutes your site's relevancy score	00:17
@preaction	but there are other "SEO" tactics that are complete BS and just create a horrible site for users	00:17
Getty	dude, i never said i'm an SEO fan ;)	00:18
Getty	i just have todo that crap 2 years on the top sites of germany as the technical part which had to realize all that crap	00:18
Getty	and i like webgui and enterprise people send you SEO dudes who will complain about that ;)	00:19
@preaction	i am a fan, i really am, i love semantic sites, i love well-organized and planned sites, i just hate keyword-loading, i hate link farms, i hate hidden stuff	00:19
Getty	yeah but this is something we all like	00:20
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CIA-57	webgui: Paul Driver master * rfa471df / (5 files in 5 dirs): Story Archive now plays nice with urlExtensions - http://bit.ly/ddo3nw	00:32
CIA-57	webgui: Paul Driver webgui-7.9 * rca383fe / (5 files in 5 dirs): Story Archive now plays nice with urlExtensions - http://bit.ly/aJaVIb	00:35
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+perlDreamer	frodwith, that is the sneakiest way to get Monkey::Patch into Debian that I've ever seen	01:04
@frodwith	laugh	01:04
@frodwith	actually I couldn't possibly care less what perl packages are in debian, but very funny :)	01:05
cj	how do I upgrade the yui used for this site?	02:15
+perlDreamer	you don't unless you want to break parts of WebGUI	02:17
cj	and if I wanted to break EVERYTHING!!!????	02:21
cj	okay... I'll figure out how to do it without ;)	02:21
* cj falls back to document.getElementByID()		02:22
+perlDreamer	cj: yui for webgui is stored in /data/WebGUI/www/extras/yui	02:22
cj	http://yuilibrary.com/support/2.8.2/	02:34
cj	erhm	02:34
cj	yeah, that's it	02:35
+perlDreamer	cj, you can download patched versions of the affected files	02:49
+perlDreamer	if you upgrade yui, you also have to go and validate big chunks of WebGUI functionally by hand.	02:50
+perlDreamer	we can look into doing that for 7.10	03:01
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8efab63 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Install patched SWF files for chart, uploader and swfstore. - http://bit.ly/b0dNtz	03:02
+perlDreamer	but doing that on a stable release would be bad	03:02
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CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8c8d169 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Install patched SWF files for chart, uploader and swfstore. - http://bit.ly/94aCQE	03:57
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CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r71b7a18 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.17 release. - http://bit.ly/dCLaMl	04:29
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CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0049e05 / sbin/testEnvironment.pl : Monkey::Patch is an optional test module for now. - http://bit.ly/crM71z	04:33
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@preaction	lesson learned: installing an incompatible libreadline (apparently in the wrong place) will destroy an OS	05:15
@preaction	or at least prevent the OS from doing anything like re-replacing the libreadline	05:16
+perlDreamer	that's not your laptop, is it?	05:23
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * re3a2c6b / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.18 development. - http://bit.ly/brG9mu	05:24
@preaction	no, a VM luckily	05:25
+perlDreamer	phew	05:25
@preaction	the opensuse 64-bit vm i'm trying to make compile the WRE	05:25
+perlDreamer	ah, that	05:26
+perlDreamer	you can nuke that all you want	05:26
+perlDreamer	I dislike SUSE a lot	05:26
@preaction	why? yast is pretty awesome	05:38
+perlDreamer	try configuring the system with something that yast can't do	05:40
+perlDreamer	like running two different versions of Apache on different ports	05:40
@preaction	ahhh	05:40
+perlDreamer	the config files are scattered all over the place	05:40
+perlDreamer	At first, I thought it was because I was a Red Hat bigot	05:41
+perlDreamer	but Ubuntu is fine to work with	05:41
+perlDreamer	I guess if you're going to stick with yast, it's okay	05:42
+perlDreamer	but it's limiting	05:42
@preaction	redhat is pretty basic, really. debian systems do a little wacky stuff	05:42
@preaction	i've heard good things about slack, maybe i should give that a try someday	05:42
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xdanger	yay, I finaly updated from 7.6.35 -> 7.7.33	08:19
xdanger	maybe tomorrow I'll update to 7.8 =D	08:19
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SDuensin	Hello from Happy Fun Land.	16:46
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+bartjol	hey, what is the best way to get rid of trash-limbostuff again?	18:19
+bartjol	and the parent is gone apparently	18:20
+bartjol	the parent lineage exist, but with another assetId than the parentId of the childs	18:21
+perlDreamer	ugh	18:24
+perlDreamer	make a backup	18:24
+perlDreamer	try resetting the parentId of the children to the new asset	18:24
+perlDreamer	then trash the new parent, and restore it	18:25
+perlDreamer	or, write a small utility script that uses getLineage (which will ignore parentId), to find the descendants of the new parent, and reset their status.	18:25
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+bartjol	well, actually, the children should be thrown away	18:29
+bartjol	I don need any restoration	18:29
+bartjol	btw, backup. like screenshot of some db queries, right?	18:32
+bartjol	yeah	18:32
+bartjol	a guy has done something in a very strange order with deleting, purging, restoring and creating assets	18:32
+bartjol	so, it might be a bug, but I? not sure on the reproducability	18:33
+perlDreamer	if you just want to throw the children away, then go with the utility script route and purge them instead of resetting the status.	18:34
@preaction	seems we have more error messages where the error itself never gets printed out...	18:40
* preaction takes the time and looks at every... single... one...		18:41
@preaction	i hate hate hate being notified by clients that something isn't working, only to find out it's a compile-time error...	18:41
+bartjol	ok, he made a new instance I?l clean up the mess tomorrow	18:42
+perlDreamer	preaction: most clients don't know any better	18:43
@preaction	perlDreamer: huh? a compile-time error should never ever EVER make it to a production server. or if it does, it shouldn't last longer than the 30 seconds it takes to roll back	18:44
* perlDreamer reiterates his claim about clients and code management		18:44
+perlDreamer	unless you're saying that this was code for hire	18:44
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+perlDreamer	bartjol! Long time no see, dude.	18:53
+perlDreamer	Is there any good sailing in winter, or do you have other hobbies?	18:53
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf884ab3 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth/WebGUI.pm): Fix the recover password URL for WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI. Fixes bug #11932 - http://bit.ly/dAnE5q	18:53
+bartjol	patspam: do you have some documentation on the nagios checks you made	18:53
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * re6695ad / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth/WebGUI.pm): Fix the recover password URL for WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI. Fixes bug #11932 - http://bit.ly/9nGLqi	18:54
+bartjol	well, I'll be sailing on sunday	18:54
+bartjol	mmm, I do see what is wrong	18:56
+bartjol	and fixed	19:02
+bartjol	adieu	19:02
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+perlDreamer	I really wonder why we didn't go with subdirectories instead of prefixes for i18n namespaces	19:11
@preaction	i still want inheritence	19:21
+perlDreamer	don't worry, you're in my will	19:25
@preaction	also, because of that URL squatting thing, perhaps we should change all the URLs in the import node to begin with root/import?	19:39
CIA-57	webgui: Doug Bell master * r001cdaf / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : remove duplicate changelog entries - http://bit.ly/bJItmE	19:41
+perlDreamer	I like that idea, preaction	19:42
+perlDreamer	although, that's the first time I've ever heard of someone complaining about URLs	19:43
+perlDreamer	still it would be good not to make headaches for people	19:43
@preaction	well, personally i'd complain about it too, i think there's a /news template as well, squatting on a good URL	19:43
@preaction	so it turns out we never changed anything to use "log" instead of "errorHandler"... and then I can finally go through all instances of log and see if the error message is actually getting spit out	19:44
@preaction	this... is gonna suck	19:44
@preaction	i suppose i could just restrict it to the 8 branch so i don't have to merge anything...	19:50
+perlDreamer	s/session..errorHandler/session->log/g ?	19:51
+perlDreamer	find -name '*.pm' --exec perl -pi -e 's/session..errorHandler/session->log/g;' {} \;	19:51
@preaction	i'm using grep inside vim, it won't necessarily be session..errorHandler, it might be session->quick(qw{ errorHandler }) or some other variation	19:53
+perlDreamer	oh yeah, but the regex will find 90% of them	19:53
+perlDreamer	then you have to track down the rest	19:53
@preaction	there were only 306, a vim macro and :grep (mapped to use ack) made quick work	20:05
@preaction	renaming the rest will be more work	20:05
@preaction	now there are bunches of my $eh and $error which make no sense, as it's now $session->log	20:06
* preaction runs tests before he goes on to editing $eh and $error vars		20:06
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure how many tests test for the successful logging of variables	20:17
+perlDreamer	and without injected errors, you may never see them	20:17
@frodwith	hey preaction, you could modify the errorhandler method to spit out a deprecation warning to the log every time someone calls it	20:32
@frodwith	with a stack trace	20:33
@preaction	it's already been deprecated, it's being deleted	20:33
@frodwith	i mean, to help you track it down	20:33
@preaction	they're already done	20:33
@frodwith	oh, righto then.	20:33
@frodwith	Does anyone have anything else to say about WebGUI::Fork the stuff I posted on that youtube video before I start merging it?	20:34
@frodwith	And also, who's been handling merging stuff from 7.10 into 8?	20:36
@frodwith	I'm sort of curious how that goes on.	20:37
+perlDreamer	I have been	20:38
+perlDreamer	it's a pretty tedious process	20:39
+perlDreamer	I've narrowed it down to about 3 hours per version merge	20:39
+perlDreamer	and I never merge more than 1 version at a time	20:39
+perlDreamer	oh, and I hear that Fork uses some questionable module about Monkeys	20:41
+perlDreamer	in WebGUI we prefer to use octopus based modules	20:41
+perlDreamer	so you may have to swap it out	20:41
@preaction	frodwith: only one thing. is there any way to make it into a ModPerl::Fork module that's more generically useful and earn you some CPAN street cred?	20:48
@frodwith	preaction: not really. The forking bits are fairly simple, and that's all that would really be useful to a wider audience.	20:49
CIA-57	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r199c4e4 / (91 files in 22 dirs): change ErrorHandler to Log - http://bit.ly/94qwqG	21:07
CIA-57	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf57ce0c / (8 files in 5 dirs): rename variables for consistency - http://bit.ly/bu5bO0	21:07
CIA-57	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r1b83072 / lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm : tests revealed i missed one. yay tests! - http://bit.ly/9dmI7i	21:09
@preaction	yay for another janitorial task out of the way!	21:09
+perlDreamer	--janitorial task list	21:09
@preaction	added a ticket for tracking purposes. yay! i finally closed a WebGUI 8 ticket!	21:12
CIA-57	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r075bcc9 / docs/migration.txt : add migration docs for ErrorHandler -> Log - http://bit.ly/d0BLyJ	21:13
+perlDreamer	preaction: what do you think about killing the address book?	21:31
+perlDreamer	in the cart in the shop?	21:32
* perlDreamer is off for lunch		21:58
* frodwith tries to get a working WebGUI 8 install going		22:13
@frodwith	where...did create.sql go	22:14
@frodwith	oh nm, it got stuck in share	22:14
@frodwith	ah, hmm. preaction!!	22:19
@frodwith	nothing works everything is broken!	22:19
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plainhao	does wg8 still run in wre?	22:36
@frodwith	webgui 8 is a plack app	22:40
@frodwith	so...not really	22:40
@frodwith	but some of the wre's tools still work	22:40
plainhao	thanks, frodwith	22:41
@frodwith	so far, all I've tried is create site, which almost works	22:41
@frodwith	(from the wre console)	22:41
@frodwith	it doesn't know where create.sql is, so I had to load that in manually.	22:42
@frodwith	but the admin console is all busted	22:42
plainhao	nice :)	22:43
@scrottie	seems to work for preaction. just not for anyone else.	22:44
plainhao	even Haarg?	22:44
@scrottie	when I've asked around, no one has claimed success.	22:44
plainhao	ok	22:45
plainhao	lots of work still to do then	22:45
@scrottie	that doesn't mean they haven't had it, just that they haven't been around and willing.	22:45
@scrottie	dunno!	22:45
@scrottie	maybe there's one tiny itty bitty reason why it only works for preaction and not anyone else.	22:45
@frodwith	I'm going to tie preaction down and make him help me get it working when he gets back from lunch.	22:45
plainhao	use the whip	22:45
@scrottie	I spent a day at the WUG trying to do just that.	22:46
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@preaction	perlDreamer: how do you mean killing? i think it's a good idea with a piss poor execution. there's no UI to it, there wasn't before, there isn't now. there needs to be.	22:54
@preaction	frodwith, scrottie: you'll be happy to know that my next task is the WebGUI 8 Demo System, which 7 has and 8 needs. this will mean I have to figure out if the AC works on someplace other than my laptop, and then with different browsers	22:55
@preaction	that's after i finish up writing these tests	22:55
+perlDreamer	preaction: killing, as in fully removing from the system. It would be replaced by two address fields, which are always updated with the last shipping and billing address used.	23:05
@preaction	i'm going to go with no, we just need an easier interface to the whole thing	23:15
* perlDreamer sighs, and nods resignedly		23:17
+perlDreamer	YOU'LL RUE THIS DAY PREACTION!	23:17
@preaction	i already did	23:18
+perlDreamer	well...	23:21
+perlDreamer	now you'll have to rue it twice	23:21
+perlDreamer	I'm going to do some merging with master	23:22
@frodwith	http://www.webgui.org/wiki/getting-webgui-8-running	23:28
@frodwith	this seems to have worked for me (tm)	23:28
+perlDreamer	off to pick up kids, bbl	23:36
xdanger	I've tested the wg8 AC, and like it =)	23:43
xdanger	Man i love git =)	23:44
@scrottie	git loves me, sometimes without lube.	23:46
--- Day changed Thu Oct 28 2010
@preaction	so let's say we have an Admin Console Plugin. would you expect, as the author of the plugin, to be able to do anything an Asset Helper could do like open a tab, a dialog, or otherwise?	00:12
xdanger	I'd like to have as many options as possible	00:15
xdanger	Isn't te new admin console in a sence a Asset?	00:17
xdanger	in that it wraps the webgui inside it, rather than the old way of sneaking into there somewhere	00:18
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@preaction	no, it's not an asset	00:18
@preaction	it's a seperate page, but not an asset	00:18
xdanger	I meant "kinda asset", I know it's not an asset	00:19
xdanger	btw. Would it be difficult to have "lazy sessions"? (that are created only when something is written about them, ie. a login, session variable / sratch written). I know that it would interfere with the passive profiling, but it would help to scale with a caching reverse proxy like varnish.	00:21
@preaction	it would be possible, not sure if difficult	00:24
@preaction	passive profiling has to be enabled anyway, and i want to make that seperate from metadata	00:29
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@preaction	does anyone even ever USE passive profiling?	01:24
+perlDreamer	I'd ask arjan that question	01:30
+perlDreamer	since he put it into the core	01:30
+perlDreamer	or, was it Len?	01:30
Getty	"nah, i just put it in to waste a bit time" ;)	01:30
@preaction	i imagine there are plenty of other things in there merely to waste time. WebGUI::Affiliate, for example	01:34
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mech422	hey all :-)	01:36
@preaction	evening	01:37
mech422	quick question about upgrading - I'm running WG from about a year ago - I know there were some really cool changes in the pipeline for new version ... Think I'm due for an upgrade yet ?	01:37
mech422	one big 'problem' I have atm, is I can't really wrap error pages in our look and feel as I use both frames and styles ( wrong terminology I know - I'd have to grab my wg books to get right terms...)	01:39
mech422	the only other issue we have is with search results - they seem to come up in FIFO order as opposed to date or relavence	01:39
@preaction	by default, the search asset searches by relevance	01:40
@preaction	but it's mysql fulltext, so it has fulltext's limitations	01:41
mech422	Hmm... I'll have to play with that some more then - our quick and dirty testing seemed to show them coming up in the order we entered them... but it WAS quick and dirty testing	01:41
+perlDreamer	mech422, maybe you're just natively relevant?	01:42
mech422	btw - we're really happy with WG - its worked like a champ :-) Even got youtube videos working embedded in a 'blog' post :-)	01:42
mech422	eh - more likely I screwed up... I do that fairly often :-P	01:43
@scrottie	my two cents, make good backups, try the upgrade and if it fails, go back. I'd do it just for security fixes.	01:43
+perlDreamer	which version are you running today, mech422?	01:44
mech422	Hmm - I can fire up a new vm and try the new version ...	01:45
mech422	Hmm - does the version string show in the admin console somewhere ?	01:45
@preaction	Statistics	01:48
mech422	ahh - thanks - 7.7.9-beta	01:48
+perlDreamer	yeah, you can upgrade pretty easily	01:48
+perlDreamer	check out the Stop Versions page on the wiki for which steps to take	01:48
mech422	cool - thanks :-)	01:49
+perlDreamer	I think it's 7.7.21, 7.7.32, 7.8.24 and then 7.9.17	01:49
mech422	ohh - rolling upgrades... good reason to stay current :-)	01:49
mech422	well, thanks for the help - that'll give me something to play with...	01:50
@scrottie	four times the upgrade fun!	01:50
mech422	btw - if anyone needs to tie webgui to iContact/Intellicontact for mailing list mgmt - I've got the code working	01:50
mech422	aside from the limitation of iContact's 'remove' function	01:51
@scrottie	are you familiar with the recently renamed Bazaar?	01:51
mech422	sorta - I've browsed thru there some :-)	01:51
mech422	actually, I should look again and see if there's any cool new toys to play with :-)	01:52
+perlDreamer	or, maybe you could add your toy to it?	01:52
mech422	Umm - I probably did it all wrong - IIRC I had to hack up some of the 'core' files a little bit...	01:54
mech422	oh crap, thats gonna make upgrading fun	01:54
mech422	might be worth an entry on the wiki though	01:55
mech422	I'm gonna have to figure out what I did for the upgrads anyway - might as well document it for posterity :-P	01:55
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CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8732619 / (46 files in 24 dirs): Merge commit '4635b91554ab757943b643e0cbcbcf4b778f1100' into WebGUI8. Syntax clean up to 7.10.2 - http://bit.ly/94nLP8	02:00
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Haarg	frodwith, the javascript on http://www.webgui.org/ht_to_tt isn't quite right. it should use encodeURIComponent instead of escape.	02:49
xdanger	Ok, here goes again... Second upgrade night in a row =)	02:50
xdanger	last night it was 7.6.35(.2) -> 7.7.33, now to 7.8.24 =) maybe tommorrow I'll go to 7.9 =D	02:53
+perlDreamer	xdanger, you have to upgrade to 7.7.21 before 7.7.33	02:55
xdanger	no, I went straight to .33	02:57
+perlDreamer	hm, that's not supposed to be possible	02:58
xdanger	upgrade_7.6.35-7.7.17.pl and so on	02:59
xdanger	What was the problem there?	03:01
xdanger	and there wasn't anything about that in the gotchas	03:01
+perlDreamer	no, it should have been in the gotchas	03:04
+perlDreamer	the issue had to do with template attachments	03:04
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/wiki/stop-versions	03:05
xdanger	nope, not in the 7.7.33 gotchas =)	03:07
xdanger	maybe someone fixed that in the upgrade scripts	03:07
+perlDreamer	it's possible, but it's a database schema change, which usually can't be fixed	03:07
+perlDreamer	Haarg, the run_{forms,assets}.t fix doesn't work. Test::Class classes have to be loaded at compile time	03:08
xdanger	I don't think I had any template attachments, maybe that is why it worked?	03:18
xdanger	Maybe someone fixed the upgrade that made the problem in the first place	03:18
xdanger	yes, it worked! without problems so far	03:19
xdanger	ok, one typo in a custom asset =)	03:21
Haarg	perlDreamer, remind me what the fix was again?	03:31
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+perlDreamer	it was using Module::Find useall	04:00
+perlDreamer	xdanger, there's one default template that has template attachments	04:01
scrottie	how do non-technical users normally get data out of surveys? is the 'visualize' essentially the only option there?	04:21
scrottie	I think I need to UTSL.	04:22
+perlDreamer	did you try the wiki?	04:22
Haarg	perlDreamer, how exactly does it fail?	04:22
+perlDreamer	I'm neck deep in another test, I'll undo my hack and run it again in a moment	04:23
+perlDreamer	it complains about modules being loaded too late	04:23
+perlDreamer	and tells you to read the section of Test::Class that deals with CHECK blocks	04:23
Haarg	bleh	04:24
Haarg	i hate CHECK	04:24
Haarg	should be easy enough to stick the useall into a BEGIN though	04:25
+perlDreamer	Haarg: http://gist.github.com/650413	04:27
scrottie	hrm, thought I finished reading http://www.webgui.org/content-managers-guide-wiki/survey but I didn't! amazing wonder of wonders. and the very next thing tells me that if I have edit mode on and the survey is part of a layout, then I get the magical links I was surprised I wasn't seeing otherwise.	04:27
+perlDreamer	well, in all fairness to you scrottie, it's a wiki	04:27
+perlDreamer	maybe someone added it after you read it the 1st time?	04:28
+perlDreamer	Haarg: do BEGIN blocks happen at compile time?	04:28
Haarg	yes	04:28
+perlDreamer	yup, that works	04:30
scrottie	I limit my conspiracy theories to malfunctioning software, not operator malevolence. I can only cope with so much.	04:30
@preaction	is there something special with logging during tests? i can't seem to get a message to show, even if i put it in WebGUI->handle	04:30
@preaction	or maybe it's because it's a WebGUI::Test::Mechanize session?	04:30
scrottie	if I assume that computers are evil, I have to believe that hu-mans are good.	04:31
+perlDreamer	preaction, check to see if logging is being intercepted	04:31
+perlDreamer	there are test methods for doing that	04:31
+perlDreamer	and they could be in effect	04:31
@preaction	how would i know unless i put them there? i'm the only person who wrote this test so far	04:31
@preaction	or it could be Plack::Middleware::NullLogger, that WG::Test::Mech is using	04:32
@preaction	yep	04:33
@preaction	removing that shows the logging	04:33
+perlDreamer	Haarg, thanks for the run_forms stuff	04:33
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CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra067cbb / (35 files in 3 dirs): Update upgrade area. Grab a copy of create.sql from 7.10.2 - http://bit.ly/9bRbQY	04:43
CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra6a10d9 / (6 files in 6 dirs): Test cleanup after merge to 7.10.2 - http://bit.ly/9IQIdp	04:43
+perlDreamer	preaction, I've got one of those, too	04:43
@preaction	those?	04:43
+perlDreamer	difficult to explain behaviors	04:43
@preaction	ah	04:44
+perlDreamer	in 8, Shop/Credit's new takes two args, both marked as required	04:44
+perlDreamer	but if you call WebGUI::Shop::Credit->new, it doesn't die	04:44
@preaction	weird	04:44
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+perlDreamer	hey, andyiomoon	04:48
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CIA-57	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * ra199bfd / lib/WebGUI/Admin.pm : add quoting and validation to search assets - http://bit.ly/bmxaY8	06:15
CIA-57	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rc8cff33 / lib/WebGUI/Admin.pm : remove debug logs - http://bit.ly/9itrZQ	06:15
CIA-57	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r250967c / (4 files in 4 dirs): add admin plugins API and start testing - http://bit.ly/aTW5XP	06:15
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+perlDreamer	preaction, the Shop/Credit test is failing	06:38
+perlDreamer	so if you run the suite, don't attribute it to anything that you've done	06:38
+perlDreamer	I'll try again tomorrow	06:38
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qwebirc45929	sup guys	18:09
qwebirc45929	got a quick question with no idea where to start	18:10
qwebirc45929	our webgui setup has been working fine for about 2 years now	18:10
qwebirc45929	all of a sudden, after making updates and saving changes or uploading files/images its logging me out after every save or update	18:11
qwebirc45929	any idea where to start looking	18:11
xdanger	which version?	18:17
+bartjol	before and after updates	18:17
qwebirc45929	havnt done updates	18:18
+bartjol	oh, sorry, updates of asseta	18:18
+bartjol	cookies are enabled in your vbrowser?	18:20
qwebirc45929	yes	18:20
qwebirc45929	cookies are enabled	18:20
qwebirc45929	nothing has changed with the computers used to access it	18:20
qwebirc45929	i'll have to go check on version number	18:21
+bartjol	1 quick check, diskspace is also ok?	18:21
qwebirc45929	400gb free	18:26
+bartjol	ok, well to the logs	18:26
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qwebirc45929	bartjol will you be here in about an hour?	18:26
qwebirc45929	I have another problem to attend to	18:27
+bartjol	qwebirc45929: I'm afraid not	18:27
qwebirc45929	ok i'll try to check back when i have more time	18:27
+bartjol	it's dinner time for me	18:27
+bartjol	but there will be people here	18:27
qwebirc45929	yea i'm heading to solve an issue and grab lunch while im out	18:27
qwebirc45929	i'll see if they can assist me	18:27
+bartjol	darn timezones	18:28
qwebirc45929	agreed	18:28
qwebirc45929	thanks... be back later	18:28
+perlDreamer	bartjol++	18:30
+bartjol	what did I do now	18:31
+perlDreamer	you helped someone	18:31
+bartjol	tried to	18:31
+bartjol	and my brilliant bug fix of changing MyHandler in $handlerName	18:32
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CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1bed870 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Credit.pm : Remove debug output. - http://bit.ly/9LGq0T	19:04
* perlDreamer goes to the gym		19:04
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SquOnk	Greetings	19:05
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Quick question on some strange behaviour we're seeing...	19:05
SquOnk	There is an article. There is a shortcut to that article.	19:05
SquOnk	The _shortcut_ template uses ^LastModified in an attempt to get the _Article_'s last modification date, but it's getting the _Shortcut_'s instead.	19:06
SquOnk	It seems that LastModified is not 'shortcut aware'. Are we missing something?	19:08
+perlDreamer	yes, you're missing something. Read the Shortcut template variables.	19:11
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Let's see	19:11
+perlDreamer	what you want is to override the default Article template and put the macro in there	19:11
+perlDreamer	now, I really have to go to the gym. I'll be back in about an hour or so.	19:11
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+perlDreamer	I'm back	20:33
+perlDreamer	okay, I've updated Moose, and I still can't get it check for a required session variable	20:36
+perlDreamer	there is absolutely no way in the world this is a real Moose bug	20:38
+perlDreamer	it can't be	20:38
+perlDreamer	it's not	20:45
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@preaction	finally i can move to something, anything else	21:50
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CIA-57	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rcd48457 / (lib/WebGUI/Admin.pm t/Admin.t): more tests and some code cleanup - http://bit.ly/blvrwL	21:59
SquOnk	Greetings	21:59
SquOnk	How can I get the last modification date for any Asset, to be used in a template?	22:00
Haarg	for a different asset than the one using the template?	22:01
SquOnk	Haarg: Let me explain	22:03
SquOnk	Haarg: We have articles being used as "news". The template has to include the date of last modification of the particular Article.	22:03
SquOnk	Haarg: The main page has shortcuts por "notorious articles"	22:04
SquOnk	Haarg: We used ^LastModified in the template, but it shows the date of last modification for the _page_ not the Article.	22:04
SquOnk	Haarg: So, when looking at the article through the shortcut, the ^LastModified date was the main page's and not the article's	22:05
SquOnk	Haarg: I thought there was a template variable for "last modification date", but there isn't	22:06
@preaction	you'll want to have a macro that given an asset ID will give you the lastModifiedDate	22:06
Haarg	revisionDate	22:06
@preaction	or try <tmpl_var lastModified>	22:06
@preaction	or <tmpl_var revisionDate>	22:06
SquOnk	preaction: We tried that (7.9.16) and got nothing.	22:06
Haarg	inside the article template revisionDate should work	22:07
SquOnk	Haarg: Well, I'm going to try again in about an hour, but I'm pretty sure we tried that and it didn't work.	22:07
Haarg	otherwise you'd probably need a custom macro of some kind	22:07
SquOnk	Haarg: I'd rather have "revisionDate" for _all_ assets :-)	22:08
SquOnk	bbl	22:08
Haarg	separate but related issue: shortcut->getContentLastModified uses the revisionDate of the asset that was shortcut instead of getContentLastModified.	22:11
Haarg	i suppose i should file a bug	22:11
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@preaction	just went through and deprecated the crappy Auth APIs, running tests then committing	22:48
@preaction	does oldName = newName; work for subroutines? are there any caveats I should know about?	22:49
scrottie	preaction++	22:49
@preaction	i'm assuming that SUPER gets fucked	22:49
scrottie	SUPER should work fine.	22:49
@preaction	oh, then the problem will be me, inside WebGUI, calling the new methods if others have overridden the old names, right?	22:50
scrottie	caveats... well, unless you do that in a BEGIN block, you might wind up with code executing before the alias is made.	22:50
scrottie	yeah. totally.	22:50
scrottie	sub foo { my $self = shift; $shift->newFoo(@_); } might be saner.	22:51
scrottie	er, $self, not $shift.	22:51
@preaction	but i'll still need to call the old method in the WebGUI bits until the old method is removed in 9.0	22:54
@preaction	fucking backwards compatibility...	22:54
@preaction	also, here is where i find that Auth is completely untested. if i did not break one test in these changes, the tests are broken...	22:54
scrottie	just write an AUTOLOAD that uses String::Approx.	22:55
@preaction	sounds like a cure worse than the disease	22:55
@preaction	though i could jack import() and inject some aliases	22:56
@preaction	which still sounds bad	22:56
@preaction	oh. duh. webgui could call both, old name first. new name second. if it finds and calls the old name, write an INFO message to the log about the deprecation	22:57
@preaction	no, old name still exists because of WebGUI::Auth::editUserSettingsForm being a thin wrapper around WebGUI::Auth::editSettingsForm	22:57
scrottie	I specialize in cures worse than the disease.	22:58
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scrottie	case in point: you should write a B::Generate based module that, at CHECK time, crawls the bytecode of the entire program, finds references to the old method name and changes it to be a reference to the new method name. if any other module has a method of the old name, calls to it will get changed too.	22:59
@preaction	okay, so does use base or use parent muck about the symbol table? or if i look at *WebGUI::Auth::AuthSubClass::editUserSettingsForm, it will absolutely only be there if someone has sub editUserSettingsForm { } in package WebGUI::Auth::AuthSubClass	22:59
@preaction	heh	22:59
scrottie	use base mucks with @ISA.	22:59
scrottie	not the symbol table.	23:00
@preaction	but method resolution uses @ISA, doesn't randomly put subrefs in packages	23:00
scrottie	right.	23:00
@preaction	okay, so i can detect and warn of this. good	23:00
scrottie	re: *WebGUI::Auth::AuthSubClass::editUserSettingsForm, right.	23:01
scrottie	with a few caveats that should be ignored.	23:01
CIA-57	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf506997 / docs/migration.txt : add notes on Auth API changes / deprecations - http://bit.ly/cGd5gf	23:04
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CIA-57	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3a9d87c / www/extras/shop/cart.js : Remove duplicate error checking code. - http://bit.ly/beZ6lg	23:43
--- Day changed Fri Oct 29 2010
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+perlDreamer	preaction: I think we have the world's first WebGUI 8 bug	02:47
+perlDreamer	calling WebGUI::Definition constructors with hashrefs does not throw an exception if the hash is missing a session object	02:48
@preaction	fun	02:48
@preaction	also, second. i think JT submitted one before the WUC	02:48
@preaction	also, does your Shop definition stuff work well enough to use it for Auth?	02:48
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Haarg	WebGUI::Definition doesn't do anything with the constructor	02:51
+perlDreamer	Haarg: can it?	02:51
+perlDreamer	preaction, maybe	02:51
+perlDreamer	most of the db stuff is hidden in BUILDARGS and write, which are in the class rather than the metaclass, so I'm tempated to say, "Oh yeah sure"	02:52
+perlDreamer	Haarg, it's more how I wrote BUILDARGS, rather than WebGUI::Definition	02:52
Haarg	also, required attributes can be undef	02:52
+perlDreamer	I can throw an isa in there to handle that	02:53
+perlDreamer	still, it won't throw anything like a WebGUI::Error unless we trap it in BUILDARGS	02:55
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2554a45 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Credit.pm : Throw an exception if you don't get a session argument in classic WebGUI instanciator syntax. - http://bit.ly/clrRcw	02:55
@preaction	hmm... we don't yet have a ticket for better global error handling. instead of trapping and hiding errors, we should be revealing them and giving content managers a way to template the message	02:57
@preaction	at any point i should be able to just throw an error and trust that (a) the website will not break (b) the user is shown a friendly error message (c) the admin gets more details in the log (d) the message can be shared with Plain Black	02:58
scrottie	oh, someone submitted a patch to p5p to allow my $foo = [ ]; push $foo, @stuff to work	03:32
scrottie	I've been wanting one of those.	03:32
@preaction	and when ref $foo ne 'ARRAY' ?	03:33
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scrottie	autovivicate or die at runtime.	03:39
scrottie	my $foo = 3; push $foo, @stuff # blarffph	03:39
@preaction	i like it	03:39
scrottie	I don't think perl 5 references can ever be made to feel first class but we can try, right?	03:40
@preaction	exactly	03:40
@preaction	and why not make p5 more like p6? unless we don't want anybody to ever use p6	03:40
scrottie	why not? because a lot of it isn't backwards compat. otherwise, there's the question of maintenance.	03:41
scrottie	and then there's the question of the perl 5 core being something of a disaster that few people can navigate.	03:42
@preaction	well, that example is just fine	03:42
@preaction	and yes, p5 is a bit of a mess	03:42
scrottie	http://search.cpan.org/~swalters/Perl6-Contexts-0.4/Contexts.pm	03:42
xdanger	Isn't the new 7.9 CS www_unsubscribe a little bit "unsafe" since anyone can unsubscribe any email?	04:02
scrottie	hrm, I wonder if it has that bug where it tells random people if any given email address is subscribed already so that, given a list of email addresses, you can build an interest profile for each user based on what lists they're subscribed to by bouncing it off of a whole bunch of sites...	04:03
xdanger	that too	04:03
xdanger	but I could go and unsubscribe someone@plainblack.com from security advisor CS	04:04
xdanger	I think it should have some sort of validation	04:05
xdanger	I have a few CSes that have a text Admin some@thing.com, etc... and they only moderate by subscribing to the cs	04:06
xdanger	Since in Finland it's the admins fault if there is hate speech, or something like that on the board	04:07
scrottie	file a bug report.	04:07
scrottie	if that is the case, that doesn't sound right. usually emails will have little auth tokens in the unsubscribe link to verify that the recipient really is the one hitting the unsubscribe link (or at least someone who has access to their email)	04:08
scrottie	are you sure it isn't just checking to make sure that the email entered doesn't match the email of the person signed in? I haven't looked at the code	04:12
@preaction	it was added so the user would not have to sign in because people were getting all pissy that they were subscribed and couldn't remember their password	04:13
xdanger	there should be some private token	04:14
xdanger	in the email, that is in the link... or something	04:14
xdanger	basicly it does: my $email = $session->form->process('userEmail', 'email'); my $user = WebGUI::User->newByEmail($session, $email); $self->unsubscribe($user);	04:15
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@preaction	you're saying put the token in the e-mail that goes out? that's gonna be a lot of tokens. when do we clean them up? perhaps the token is a hash of the e-mail address?	04:16
@preaction	hash of the e-mail address then checked against the e-mail they give us maybe	04:17
xdanger	or generate a token for each user	04:17
scrottie	that would make sense. then you'd only need one randomly generated salt.	04:17
xdanger	not every email	04:17
@preaction	in the future there may not be a user, i want to have anonymous forums someday	04:17
scrottie	er, hashing every email against one secret salt would make sense.	04:17
scrottie	well, hashing the email address against a single secret salt would work for that.	04:18
xdanger	anonymous email list based on cs? I like it ;)	04:18
@preaction	http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/ <- why the "futaba-channel force anon" is better	04:18
xdanger	well not anonymous, but not requiring registration =)	04:18
@preaction	there are other articles with the same conclusion, forcing registration does not prevent drama, it attracts it	04:19
@preaction	more and more i want webgui to require a full mail server with incoming delivery. it has so many uses	04:20
@preaction	VERP, user anonymity for e-mail-based communications	04:21
@preaction	okay, so two uses.	04:21
xdanger	I'm just pasting from irc to the bugtracker =)	04:27
xdanger	maybe the secret salt should be invalidated once in a while	04:28
scrottie	that would invalidate existing ones. you'd have to hold on to the last few, fifo style. you could. meh.	04:29
xdanger	that's what I was thinking	04:29
xdanger	but it's not "secure" if it's the same for many years	04:29
scrottie	yup. especially if the hash is md5 ;)	04:30
xdanger	=)	04:30
xdanger	if the secret salt would be the subscriptionGroupId?	04:31
xdanger	since it's not public	04:31
scrottie	hrm. GUIDs get passed around a lot. does that one not? seems easist just to have an upgrade script stuff something random into settings.	04:32
xdanger	I think it's only visible for admins	04:32
scrottie	feels like premature optimization.	04:33
xdanger	in cs?func=edit forms	04:33
xdanger	yes	04:33
xdanger	you can't invalidate that	04:33
xdanger	but it could be in the hash	04:33
@preaction	you won't find a perfect, forever solution.	04:34
scrottie	improve, improve, improve.	04:34
xdanger	so if someone gets the link he/she can only unsubscribe from one cs, not all of them	04:34
@preaction	why?	04:34
scrottie	do the next improvement. get back to it when it makes sense to.	04:34
@preaction	why make it more difficult and make a bigger case when you get sent to court for spam?	04:35
xdanger	I meant someone not owning the email	04:35
@preaction	if they can read the e-mail, and have the link, then the user has bigger problems than being unsubscribed from some newsletter they never read	04:35
xdanger	It could be an option to enable	04:35
xdanger	if there is super_secret_salt in config file	04:35
xdanger	someone can forward the email without removing the link	04:36
@preaction	sucks to be them then	04:36
xdanger	and to that notion, you should send a "you have unsucribed" email	04:36
xdanger	that's true =)	04:36
@preaction	send an e-mail to someone who has said they never want to recieve e-mail from us again?	04:37
xdanger	It's tricky	04:37
@preaction	that sounds along the lines of "Okay, i'll take your name off our lists, but it'll take 30 days so you may still get calls from us"	04:37
scrottie	I think xdanger has feature addiction.	04:37
@preaction	no, a lot of systems do all of these things	04:37
@preaction	and those systems annoy the ever-loving piss out of me	04:37
xdanger	I just want to protect my cs from malicius script-kiddies =)	04:38
@preaction	our apps are not extensible, they will be eventually. when that day comes, you'll be able to extend to get your desired features	04:38
@preaction	and you'll never protect anything ever. script kiddies don't have malice, they have boredom	04:38
xdanger	malicious, so thats how it's typed =D	04:38
scrottie	the cure would be worse than the disease. you could hotlink to a dynamically generated single pixel image and refuse to accept unsubscribe requests from any IP than that one. but it would break for people who don't show images in their email if they forward the message and someone else does. etc, etc, etc.	04:39
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scrottie	then there are bugs and code to audit and so on and so forth. KISS.	04:39
scrottie	the only thing that should ever be elaborate is a joke =)	04:39
xdanger	only a good one	04:39
scrottie	(which explains my CPAN modules)	04:40
xdanger	they are jokes? ;)	04:41
@preaction	they're very subtle	04:42
scrottie	look for yourself.	04:42
xdanger	I know...	04:42
scrottie	if you have any doubt, start with Acme::RPC.	04:42
xdanger	I like modules that do one thing and do it well	04:42
xdanger	s/ do / does /g	04:43
xdanger	a, it's getting 5am here, maybe should go to bed	04:44
scrottie	okay. goodnight!	04:45
xdanger	should, but probably won't =)	04:45
@preaction	finally found it: "Ua lava" Samoan for "now enough" or "enough already"	04:47
Haarg	i only skimmed this conversation but if you wanted to have extra protection on the unsubscribe function i think the hash with a secret key is probably the way to go.	04:54
Haarg	and if i get around to the session improvements i want to do that would need a secret key as well	04:55
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rfa73d81 / (11 files in 5 dirs):	05:05
CIA-74	webgui: create and use get, update, delete instead of old	05:05
CIA-74	webgui: deleteParams, deleteSingleParam -> delete	05:05
CIA-74	webgui: getParams -> get	05:05
CIA-74	webgui: saveParams -> update - http://bit.ly/9zJKRz	05:05
@preaction	another webgui 8 ticket closed! yay!	05:06
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scrottie	with session text and question text and "text on every page" checked and "questions on the section page" checked, shouldn't both the section and question text be shown at the same time?	06:20
scrottie	in a Survey?	06:20
scrottie	oh, hmm. editing the question text doesn't affect the question text either.	06:24
scrottie	aha. versioning. it was returning me to the survey in progress, correctly versioned. nevermind.	06:26
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scrottie	patspam, every time you log on, the old 50's Batman theme starts playing in my head.	06:30
patspam	heh	06:31
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SDuensin	FrIdAy!	16:38
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+bartjol	so it is	17:01
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+perlDreamer	bartjol: any news on SynQ v2.1?	17:54
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+bartjol	well, the code is being revised a bit	17:55
+bartjol	some last minute changes	17:56
+perlDreamer	spec changes are a pain	17:56
+bartjol	no, no spec changes, just some minor security improvements	17:57
+bartjol	isn't it 2.2 btw?	17:58
+bartjol	it is a major release	17:58
+bartjol	ask Tessa :)	17:58
+perlDreamer	I figured 2.0 was the original, and 2.1 was the next release	17:59
+perlDreamer	but that's just convention	17:59
+perlDreamer	so what's the deal with your i18n breaking WebGUI's version tags?	18:00
+bartjol	well	18:01
+bartjol	not sure, but it is the only error I have	18:01
+bartjol	and it is not unimaginable	18:01
+bartjol	but apparently a i18n object is requested somewhere, accidently having the wrong order or # of arguments	18:03
+bartjol	my guess is the 2nd one	18:03
+perlDreamer	oh sure, blame the perl code ;)	18:03
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+bartjol	yeah, but it is a bit hard to trace	18:04
+bartjol	bbiom	18:04
+bartjol	and back	18:06
+perlDreamer	well, I'll switch over to Spanish and try debugging that way (on Monday)	18:08
+perlDreamer	since it works fine in English	18:08
+bartjol	it also works fine with scratch language to english	18:11
* perlDreamer sighs		18:16
+perlDreamer	we need to do more testing in other languages	18:16
+bartjol	well, I only use english	18:17
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+perlDreamer	bartjol, I didn't want to bring up your English bigotry. I know it's a sore subject.	18:24
+bartjol	well, now I start crying	18:26
+bartjol	need beer	18:26
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SquOnk	Greetings	19:03
SquOnk	How do I test if a user is a visitor? Tried session.isVisitor. Can't find that in the Template Help	19:05
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+perlDreamer	SquOnk, some template variables are added to every template	19:17
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Is there one variable available in all templates?	19:17
+perlDreamer	several, actually	19:18
+perlDreamer	but none for determining if a user is visitor	19:18
+perlDreamer	you can use a GroupText macro for that	19:18
+perlDreamer	and check for the Visitor group	19:18
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I found that, but feels like a hack.	19:18
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Is there a reason why there isn't such a global template variable	19:18
SquOnk	?	19:18
+perlDreamer	I'm sure there is, but it may not be a good one	19:19
SquOnk	lol	19:19
+perlDreamer	also, the global session variables are deprecated	19:19
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Same goes with 'lastRevision'. It works, but AFAIK isn't documented	19:19
+perlDreamer	lastRevision?	19:19
+perlDreamer	lastUpdated perhaps?	19:19
+perlDreamer	it's documented in the Asset template variables	19:20
SquOnk	lastModified, actually	19:20
SquOnk	I'm using ^D(...,<tmpl_var lastModified>) in several templates	19:20
+perlDreamer	yes, that should be in the Asset help, to be inherited by all the assets	19:20
SquOnk	perlDreamer: It's not in 'Asset Template Variables', nor in 'Asset Template Asset Variables'	19:22
+perlDreamer	I should have been clearer. It's missing from there, and should be added to Asset Template Asset Variables	19:22
+perlDreamer	probably some others as well	19:22
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Good. It means I'm not disoriented :-)	19:22
+perlDreamer	no dude, it's Friday, and you're rocking!	19:23
+perlDreamer	patches welcome, otherwise, please file a bug and I'll fix it on Monday	19:24
SquOnk	perlDreamer: All right	19:28
+perlDreamer	or you could do both, and put the patch in the bug	19:29
+perlDreamer	or just commit it, since I think you have commit bit	19:29
+perlDreamer	you can run t/i18n/help.t and t/Help/compiled to make sure you have it done correctly	19:30
SquOnk	Good	19:31
SquOnk	Now that you mention t/	19:31
SquOnk	t/supporting_collateral/rss/entity-es.rss (and derived) mention vtv.gob.ve	19:31
SquOnk	...the problem is vtv doesn't have a clear stance on whether or not their contents can be freely distributable	19:32
SquOnk	So, maybe just munging the RSS data and changing that URL to something different will simplify the redistribution of that test data set.	19:33
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, if you can show me a copyright notice somewhere, on an open RSS feed, I'd be glad to comply	19:34
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Oh, but the other RSS feeds (the russian ones) come from WikiPedia and they have a clear stance (copyright and CC license)	19:35
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+perlDreamer	Is Venezuelan law similar to U.S. law, where all content is copyrighted by default?	19:35
+perlDreamer	or does it have to be explictly stated?	19:36
SquOnk	perlDreamer: It has to be explicitly stated for redistribution.	19:36
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Copyright goes to VTV automatically, no contest. Usage (as in reading) is free to everyone.	19:36
+perlDreamer	makes sense, I'll make that change since I added it	19:36
SquOnk	perlDreamer: But redistribution (photocopying, binary copying, etc.) has to be explicitly stated by the copyright holder.	19:37
+perlDreamer	No sense in provoking the Venezulean government	19:37
SquOnk	perlDreamer: LOL	19:37
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I'm reasonably good friends with the current Technology Ministry President...	19:40
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...very FLOSS-inclined...	19:40
+perlDreamer	Well, in that case, please tell him that his national policies are interfering with my test collateral ;)	19:40
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...and one of the things I talked to him about recently, is the lack of copyright and licensing information in ALL government sites.	19:41
@preaction	the US is cool like that: all government produced things, unless classified, are copyleft	19:42
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, in wG 7.10 and 7.9, it's been fixed	19:42
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9e8a90d / t/supporting_collateral/rss/entity-es.rss : Alter the Spanish entity testing collateral. - http://bit.ly/cFu50s	19:42
+perlDreamer	I can't do much about 7.8 or 7.7	19:42
+perlDreamer	so I'm not sure how you want to handle the debian package	19:42
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r3d172c5 / t/supporting_collateral/rss/entity-es.rss : Alter the Spanish entity testing collateral. - http://bit.ly/cWhnig	19:42
SquOnk	perlDreamer: You have to change three files	19:43
SquOnk	iso-8859-1.rss and utf8-es.rss too	19:43
+perlDreamer	Please have a peek at that one, SquOnk	19:55
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf5dab03 / (3 files): Rework all encodings of the spanish RSS file. - http://bit.ly/df3hiW	19:55
SquOnk	Perfect.	19:56
SquOnk	wait	19:56
SquOnk	perlDreamer: sample.es happens to exist :-P	19:56
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Use something like ejemplo.local	19:57
+perlDreamer	you're busting my chops, SquOnk	19:57
SquOnk	LOL	19:57
SquOnk	Or example.com	19:57
SquOnk	I'll go with example.com because of RFC2606	19:58
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r462f0dd / (3 files): And again... - http://bit.ly/amtn8A	19:59
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Greate	20:01
SquOnk	Funny. The date of the RSS is wrong from the venezuelan point of view :-)	20:02
SquOnk	By that date we were already in UTC-4:30	20:02
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CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r296ed5f / (3 files): Rework all encodings of the spanish RSS file. - http://bit.ly/b8YKnM	20:26
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2b10a08 / (3 files): And again... - http://bit.ly/9k00AO	20:26
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Getty	a little problem i want to mention where i see it	22:29
Getty	the reply of my feature request is defined on my thunderbird as spam (i must underline here that i dont extended it with extra spam filter or anything)	22:30
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@preaction	Getty: so teach thunderbird that it is not spam	00:31
Getty	oh i dont care about that, i just mention it, that it could be avoided	00:32
Getty	sorry, i stop giving hints....	00:32
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CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5bf6628 / lib/WebGUI/Form/File.pm : Shift the location of break tags in Form/File to prevent danglies. - http://bit.ly/aMoc5r	00:51
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r375eeb8 / lib/WebGUI/Form/File.pm : Shift the location of break tags in Form/File to prevent danglies. - http://bit.ly/bfdr8F	00:52
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elnino	helloooo!	01:35
elnino	I know I asked this before, but I forgot the answer already. If i'm at 7.9.16, and I want to bring in three sites that are at 7.7.28-stable (not a stop version) can I run the upgrade.pl and be happY? or do I need to at least bring the three new ones to a stop point? or is it not possible at all?	01:37
Haarg	basically, you always have to upgrade to the last patch release before moving to the next version.	01:39
Haarg	so upgrade to the last 7.7 release, then to the last 7.8 release, then to 7.9	01:39
elnino	so I can bring in those three new sites, to a server already runningn 7.9.*?	01:39
elnino	as long as I"m at 7.7.33?	01:40
elnino	with those three sites?	01:40
Haarg	it would have to be a three step upgrade	01:40
elnino	so. upgrade the three to 7.7.33, copy them to the new server, and rerun upgrade.pl?	01:41
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Haarg	upgrade to 7.7.33, then upgrade to the last 7.8 release, then copy them to the new server and run upgrade.pl there to bring them up to 7.9.16.	01:53
elnino	sorry about that Haarg.. I missed one of your comments...	01:56
elnino	I see the three steps now.	01:56
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elnino	So, basically, the upgrade.pl on the 7.9.16 server can only upgrade from the latest 7.8 version. correct?	01:57
+perlDreamer	yes	01:57
+perlDreamer	so, upgrade the sites to 7.8.24	01:58
+perlDreamer	then copy them over	01:58
elnino	cool	01:58
+perlDreamer	then upgrade	01:58
+perlDreamer	the upgrader will ignore any site that's already at the correct version	01:58
elnino	cool Thanks Haarg and perlDreamer	01:58
+perlDreamer	hack on, elnino	02:04
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Getty	someone alive?	05:13
Getty	is there something i can show someone i want to bring from typo3 to webgui? (i would manage the tehcnical part but i need informations about how cool he can add design for a site and stuff)	05:14
Getty	i think i got him :)	05:56
Getty	Getty++ ;)	05:56
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Getty	hiho preaction	06:27
Getty	NOW i see the beauty of WebGUI btw ;)	06:27
Getty	oh man.. now i get it	06:35
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xdanger	Getty: If you have a blog or a forum, write about your findings about webgui. We need more exposure for webgui and also it would be a great article to someone else trying to bring people over to this side ;)	17:40
Getty	i even got more surpreme ideas.....	18:03
Getty	but, i would like to ask some questions, if there are enough people alive at this holy sunday ;)	18:18
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scrottie	Getty, blogs are a great way to organize your ideas. write, paste the link here, let people digest it when they have the spare attention.	22:54
Getty	mh? my idea gets business ;) but massivly pushs on WebGUI spreading	23:05
Getty	but i got general webgui questions which interests me, for example about the Admin Console customizing, what is possible there	23:06
Getty	and i hope the development takes in DBIx::Class someday ;) thats the other one if this is planned	23:07
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@preaction	Getty: you can add additional admin console plugins in webgui 7. in webgui 8 it's far more customizable	23:35
Getty	sounds good	23:36
Getty	what about reducing them?	23:36
@preaction	sure go ahead, its in the config file	23:36
Getty	its just a to big overload for a new user if they dont need all of it, but i guess that goes over permissions and stuff?	23:36
Getty	no i dont mean really "make it go away" i think more hiding it	23:36
Getty	so that the "full admin" can still add them, but lets say "the client as admin" just get a limited choice so that he doesnt make shit	23:37
Getty	(or generally limit parts of the admin interface, like layout and stuff if i want it for the client)	23:37
@preaction	ui levels	23:39
@preaction	or group permissions	23:39
Getty	ok good	23:39
Getty	and you guys ever thought of using DBIx::Class? that hard SQL queries limit very much the database usage possibilities	23:40
Getty	while i saw the code i think it should be farly easy to deliver session->dbic next to ->db so that it could go into a longtime step by step move for that	23:41
@preaction	a dbic interface to webgui's asset stuff: http://github.com/preaction/modern-webgui	23:44
Getty	:-D	23:44
Getty	AAAAHHH!	23:45
Getty	thats hot	23:45
Getty	<wank>	23:45
Getty	is it usable?	23:45
@preaction	dunno, it can co-exist. you could write an asset using it, maybe	23:45
Getty	so its not a replacement? just an "addon"?	23:45
Getty	or is that the complete WebGUI?	23:45
@preaction	it could be used to replace the asset system of webgui	23:46
@preaction	as you see, it hasn't been worked on since december of 09	23:46
Getty	if i start now with WebGUI i could help on that, so that it can go on, i must see	23:46
Getty	at first i will go to the regular one, but its nice to see that a) you got it on github and open and b) its modern perl	23:46
Getty	that makes me hot	23:46
Getty	i will definitly help on that	23:47
@preaction	well, i had to do some major hacking to get DBIC and Moose to work together	23:47
Getty	you dont need them to work together really, what you did? can you point me to a class?	23:47
@preaction	i hear Fey::ORM works much nicer with Moose	23:47
Getty	irgs	23:47
Getty	forget that	23:47
@preaction	WebGUIx::Asset	23:47
@preaction	WebGUIx::Tree	23:47
Getty	DBix::Class IS the way to go	23:47
@preaction	WebGUIx::Model	23:47
Getty	and normally i suggest: use DBIx::Class::Candy	23:48
Getty	and then the classes are looking fine	23:48
Getty	its not important that the resultsets are Moose class. it was never a point	23:48
Getty	ah wait.... what you do in there is already packaged up as module	23:48
Getty	let me search, gimme 2 minutes	23:48
Getty	http://search.cpan.org/~mendel/DBIx-Class-MooseColumns-0.10/lib/DBIx/Class/MooseColumns.pm	23:49
Getty	if you drop in that, i guess your code you do for having that db => magic will get deprecated	23:49
Getty	CPAN++ ;)	23:50
@preaction	ah, yes, my db => stuff does a lot more. see WebGUIx::Model, it hooks into table() to make sure everything works correctly	23:52
Getty	yeah but that could get added, i just mean, always good to rely on existing standards	23:52
@preaction	DISCLAIMER This is ALPHA SOFTWARE.	23:53
@preaction	standards?	23:53
Getty	hehehe	23:53
Getty	lets say: its still there cause there was no push so far	23:53
Getty	but true, your implementation is definitly also good, just wanted to drop some hints	23:53
@preaction	i've got better ideas for massaging assets when i get the time in 8.x	23:54
Getty	if you want help on the planning, please bother me on it, i'm a modern perl junkie and i need all that stuff definitly, so i want to push it on as fast as possible	23:54
Getty	but as you said, you did one year nothing and webgui 8 is i think next to the door, so better concentrate on webgui 8 ;)	23:55
@preaction	well, i want to add a Dancer DSL to the whole thing	23:55
Getty	why Dancer?	23:55
Getty	something really noone cares about?	23:55
@preaction	i like "get '/' => sub { }"	23:55
@preaction	post '/' => sub { }	23:56
Getty	you can have all taht with Catalyst too	23:56
Getty	but then you are on a much bigger and better base	23:56
@preaction	i didn't say "add Dancer", i said "a Dancer DSL"	23:56
Getty	ah ok ;)	23:56
@preaction	it'd be the same Asset system, just with a DSL for making www_ methods	23:56
Getty	ah sounds cool	23:56
Getty	you could check on Web::Simple	23:56
Getty	probably you can kick that in very simple, its done by mst, so good code	23:57
@preaction	that'd be a replacement for 7.10's "dispatch" method	23:57
Getty	just a small question about the design of 7.x	23:58
@preaction	design?	23:58
Getty	the Asset classes get farly big if you got much of functionality (like see Project Manager)	23:58
Getty	is there a possibility to extract functions (like update overriding or so) to extra classes already now?	23:59
Getty	beside standard perl methods for it	23:59
--- Log closed Mon Nov 01 00:00:12 2010

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