WebGUI irc logs from: 2010-11.log

--- Log opened Mon Nov 01 00:00:12 2010
@preactionhttp://github.com/frodwith/helpdesk-rewrite <- does a lot more sane things00:00
@preactionactually, i lied, it moved to AssetCollateral, which i now think is the wrong thing to do00:01
Gettyah i see00:01
GettyIIIIIHHHHH i see there HTML code in the .pm! AAAHHH ;)00:01
@preactionit's not for core consumption00:01
@preactionanyway, the dispatch() stuff added in 7.9 is one step in getting away from "only assets have URLs". with proper dispatch method, you could create an MVC framework for assets00:03
@preactionWebGUI::CRUD will be phased out for a better ORM, haven't decided which one yet00:03
@preactionmysql's fulltext search will be phased out for a Sphinx-based solution00:03
@preactionamong other things during the 8.x cycle00:03
Gettythere is no other choice for a good ORM than DBIx::Class00:04
GettyRose, Fey, they all are bad designed and bad coded00:04
Gettyalso DBIx::Class is based on tons of abstracted modules and concepts which are splitted existing on CPAN, so easy to replacable on requirement00:04
@preactionin short: nothing will escape my grasp in making WebGUI something useful00:05
GettyWebGUI is already now useful, IF you get the trick00:05
Gettyi worked 1 day with WebGUI months ago when i tested it first00:05
@preactioni'd rather it not be a trick00:05
Gettyand i hated it, from the very deep, saw it was too much overloaded and i was unable to get00:06
Gettybut yesterday i tested it with "another point of view"00:06
Gettyand then i saw it00:06
@preaction8 is far better so far, but there's more docs and more unravelling that will be going on as 8.x develops. lot of stuff is already deprecated in 8 and 8 isn't even released yet ;)00:06
Gettyi will get excited :)00:07
@preactionbut yes, 8.x is where i evaluate how assets are made and what ORM to use00:07
GettyDBIx::Class ;) you have no choice ;)00:07
Gettyyou must see the massive team who works on it, there is even one guy that is nearly 24/7 just working on it00:08
@preactioni know, i've talked with most of them00:08
@preactionmst has expressed both love and hate for DBIC00:08
Gettyso why you make it open? ;)00:08
@preactionthings change00:08
Gettyyeah but so far.... i dont see another option00:08
GettyRose definitly not00:08
GettyFey definitly not00:08
@preactionfor example: JT thought that Amazon Simple DB (a No-SQL database) would be oodles better for his latest project00:08
* Getty runs00:09
@preactionturns out that mysql is hugely faster00:09
Gettyof course00:09
GettyNoSQL is just for... dont know..... "flexible CMS" which have no decent structure00:09
@preactioni personally love the nosql movement, i mean, anyone else remember BDB?00:09
Gettybut WebGUI is rocksolid, it doesnt need a flexible base00:09
@preactionnosql has. no. purpose.00:09
Gettyi tried the nosql 00:09
Gettyi was a fan00:09
Gettyi worked with it00:09
Gettyand then was pissed00:09
Gettyevery second00:09
@preactionand BDB is already far faster than existing nosql implementations :p00:09
Gettynow i only work with DBIx::Class00:10
Gettyand make nice tables00:10
Gettymake it clean and straight00:10
Gettyand switched to postgresql on that00:10
Gettyits soooooooooooooooooo cool to make tables with it00:10
@preactionthat's another reason why i want an ORM00:10
Gettyon postgresql you just have: text, int.... i mean00:10
Gettyyou dont need to thing "varchar? or text? if varchar how many chars?"00:11
Gettyits all pointless on postgresql00:11
Gettyyou just make "text" always, its all the same in postgresql00:11
@preactionwell, the ORM would handle that SQL translation for me, instead of writing MySQL, or PostgreSQL, or MSSQL, or whatever00:11
Gettythats why i asked00:11
Gettyso that i can use postgresql00:11
Gettyi hate mysql00:11
@preactioneh, it's stupid, but it's damn fast00:11
Gettypostgresql is faster, it was not faster some time ago, but its faster definitly since 7.x00:12
@preactionfunny enough, a bunch of this WebGUIx code is now exactly in WebGUI 800:15
@preactionwith different names perhaps, but the same basic code00:15
@preactionand there's a bunch more going in, the www_add / www_addSave, and a bunch of changes to how VersionTag works00:16
Gettyso WebGUI 8 is Moose?00:16
@preactionPlack/PSGI too00:16
@preactionand you should check out the AC in 8, you'll probably like it a lot more00:17
@preactionAdmin Console00:17
Gettyah ok00:17
Gettyyeah i guess00:17
Gettycause i dont like the 7.x one ;)00:17
Gettyi mean its "ok"00:17
Gettyits "usable"00:18
Gettybut.... i hate it00:18
Gettywhat i hate most is the "workflow" of the interface (so not the workflow feature)00:18
@preactionthe 8 AC is pretty, and far more extensible00:18
Gettylets say i edit an asset, how i come back to the asset editor?00:18
@preactionand much easier to use00:18
@preactionnot as easy as i'd like, but webgui is not wordpress or mediawiki. easier to write admin interfaces when you don't have to do everything00:19
@preactionbut as the applications we have get respecced and fixed during 8.x, things will change00:19
Gettydont say those words00:19
Gettyor mediawiki00:19
Gettyits like comparing webgui with crap00:19
@preactionthey are the top of their class for a reason00:19
Gettynot really00:19
Gettywordpress developer would love to switch to perl00:19
Gettybut they cant cause there is no standard at all00:20
Gettyall wordpress plugins are doing some crap directly to the core00:20
Gettyits just a big mess that works by random00:20
@preactionphp is a glorified templating language, yes, and i've worked on wordpress "templates"00:20
Gettyphp is shit, 13 years wasting my time with it00:20
Gettyi dont wanna look back even00:20
@preactionyes, but there are things we can learn from the UI and featureset of these programs00:20
Gettythat for sure!00:21
Gettyits so crazy...00:21
Gettythink about all that php coder making perl stuff00:21
@preactiondrupal, for example, is another one at the top (or at least above webgui). why? i've never even used it, which is a problem for the PM of a CMS to never have used the competition00:22
Gettywe would have a language so powerful...00:22
GettyDrupal suxx00:22
Gettyso big time...00:22
Gettyi used it00:22
Gettyi dropped that project than and made my own CMS for this project00:22
@preactioni like their Taxonomy system thing00:22
Gettywas faster then implementing the requirements in drupal00:22
@preactioni think i'm gonna steal that part00:22
@preactioni also want Alfresco's site network thing00:22
Gettyoh! reminds me.....00:23
Gettyif i have several hostnames for a webgui installation00:23
Gettyi guess you dont redirect, right?00:23
Gettyyou just "accept them all"?00:23
@preactionthey are all treated equally00:23
Gettyyeah... SEO disaster ;)00:23
Gettyi need a switch so that he redirects all "not the first one" to the first one 1:100:24
Gettyso if you access http://bla.de/blub it redirects to http://www.bla.de/blub00:24
@preactionuse apache to do that00:24
Gettyi dont use apache at all00:24
Gettyi mean i could do it in webserver, no problem00:24
@preactionuh, webgui doesn't run under anything but mod_perl00:24
Gettydont shock me?00:25
Gettybut that is dropped out in WebGUI 8? (i guess elsewhere Plack would be pointless)00:25
@preactionwebgui 7.x runs under modperl2 only. 8.x is PSGI, and there you would write a PSGI file that would do the redirecting for you00:25
Gettyi hate modperl so much00:25
@preactionwelcome to the club00:26
Gettythere is a funny bug in it00:26
Gettyi dont know if its fixed00:26
@preactionmod_perl is the way to write apache modules in perl, nothing else00:26
Gettyif you activate mod_perl in apache00:26
Gettyno htaccess is parsed if the path of it is longer than 256 chars00:26
@preactioneh, htaccess is more horrible than mod_perl00:26
Gettyyeah but it was funny00:28
Gettyi needed mod_perl for a project which was based on it00:28
Gettyand then a client called00:28
Gettythat his protected area is suddenly open for everybody00:28
Gettythat was my first contact with mod_perl00:29
Gettybut its still a fight to explain people that mod_perl is not a solution for something00:29
Gettyi cant even imagine what i would need with mod_perl, cause anything that a webserver should be able to is already there as apache module these days00:30
Getty(beside dynamic apache config)00:30
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@preactionbeing able to write Auth handlers and other stuff in Perl instead of C is nice00:32
Gettyyeah but these days HTTP AUTH is already out of date anyway00:32
Gettyit makes only tons of problem, is not cascadable anything is shit with it00:32
@preactionit's very useful when it comes to non-browser UAs00:32
Gettyi only use it to protect not launched sites00:32
Gettyyeah ok, but even that is these day not that complex00:32
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+bartjolah, don't you have daylight savings?15:39
SDuensinNext week.  :-)15:39
CIA-74webgui: Paul Driver master * r7219e21 / (28 files in 13 dirs): Merge branch 'fork' - http://bit.ly/bUKlw815:45
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+bartjolhowdy perlDreamer16:59
+perlDreamerhey, bartjol17:00
+perlDreamerhow are things back east?17:00
+bartjolwell, nice sailing yesterday17:00
+perlDreameris Halloween a holiday that the Dutch observe?17:00
+bartjolI got  a rope ober my ceiling to be able to pull electric wiring through17:00
+bartjolwell, a bit17:01
+bartjolnot very fanatic17:01
+perlDreamerI installed a new sink in the bathroom last week17:01
+bartjolbut, to talk wg, I was wondering ehether you agreed with the bug status of http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/1193817:01
+bartjolooh, sinks17:02
+perlDreamerIt is a bug, because there's no reason to remove that state since we didn't set it17:02
+perlDreamerusing specialState is dangerous, since WebGUI uses it itself17:02
+perlDreamerso, I'm going to fix the bug because the script should do that17:02
+perlDreamerbut you shouldn't either :)17:02
+bartjolbe using it for other purposes?17:03
+perlDreameryou said that there was some custom code that used specialState17:03
+bartjolbut, wehn I have a really special state17:03
+bartjolok, we can make another setting, stuff stays similar17:03
+bartjoland settings aren't really included in API, so a bit floating17:04
+perlDreamerit's doable, but risky17:04
+perlDreameras was found out17:04
+bartjolby antother person than me?17:04
+perlDreamerI thought you were the other person, I must have misread the bug17:06
+bartjolok, then I got it correct17:06
+bartjolwell, trying strange stuff does lead to bug findings17:06
+bartjolbtw, it is for webgui starter17:07
+bartjolto be able to block none-paying customers17:18
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r85f1531 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/upgrade.pl): Don't delete the special state unless we set it. Fixes bug #11938 - http://bit.ly/bZj5RN17:23
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+perlDreamerbartjol, that's your patch in case you want it now17:25
+perlDreamerinstead of tomorrow for the release17:25
+bartjolnot in a hurry with it, but thank you very much, now I can compare it with my fix independantly17:28
Rainy-DGoogled about surveys, wondered into the blog, finally found the webpage, poked at the wiki, I still don't understand what webGUI is supposed to be.17:28
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rc41d898 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Moving changelog entry to correct version. - http://bit.ly/cWAXkR17:29
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1c63a65 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/upgrade.pl): Don't delete the special state unless we set it. Fixes bug #11938 - http://bit.ly/9rzfGM17:29
+bartjolRainy-D: simply said, it is a CMS17:30
Rainy-DAnd that is what?17:31
+perlDreamerContent Management System17:31
+perlDreamerit also has lots of applications built in17:31
+perlDreamerlike a survey17:31
+perlDreamerForum system17:31
+perlDreamerCNN-like story submission and display system17:31
Rainy-DAh, one of those. 17:31
+perlDreamerProject Tracker17:31
Rainy-DI needed a survey for my thesis. Currently I'm poking at anything that says survey.17:33
+perlDreamerif all you want is a survey, it's a bit overkill, but it will work17:33
Rainy-DYeah, overkill seems to be the case. But I can't do my survey on free accounts on the online survey makers, the questions limits are too low.17:35
+perlDreamerwell, in that case maybe WebGUI is what you want17:36
Rainy-DNot as easy to set up maybe but seems to offer more options. I'm so bad at understanding the coding side so I hope UI is easy. Still, I have a month to decide while I form the questions.17:38
Rainy-DBesides, I'm gobbling up a bachelor's in IT, I should be able to figure things out eventually.17:42
+perlDreameryou know your way around a Unix-like command line shell/17:42
Rainy-DSome, I failed my unix course. And it isn't a required course so I never put enough effort into it.17:43
Rainy-DI know more dos-box than unix probably...17:43
+perlDreamerThe simplest way to set up WebGUI is to buy a site from a hoster.  That will run you anywhere from 10-20/month without support.17:44
+perlDreamerThe next easiest option is to use the VMWare image, since it's fully configured from the get go17:44
+perlDreamerbut you have to setup the image and handle the network config17:44
+perlDreamerbut it's free17:44
Rainy-DWonder if the school would let me set it up on their servers. 17:44
+perlDreamerwhich school is it?  They might already by using WebGUI17:45
Rainy-DOulu University of Applied Sciences :D17:45
Rainy-DIn Finland17:45
+perlDreamerhm, I'm not very familiar with the overseas users of WebGUI, but I know we have a Finnish member of the community.17:46
+perlDreamerit's worth checking into17:46
Rainy-DYes. And we have several sorts of engineers and programmers on our campus so I can find someone eventually if I go this route.17:47
Rainy-DHmm, your wiki is something interesting.17:49
+perlDreamerit's not as full featured like MediaWiki17:49
+perlDreamerbut we like it :)17:50
+bartjolwhoohoo, I got my fork up to date17:50
Rainy-DToo used to wikipedia like layout so navigation needs more tought put into it so I can poke around.17:51
+bartjolthe content managers guide is available for download17:53
+bartjolthat maybe gives you a first impression17:53
+bartjolalso there are at leat3 demo sites17:53
+bartjolso you can get a peek17:55
Rainy-DSightings page on the home page seems to have lots of examples.17:56
+bartjolthat too, not sure how many examples of the survey are in those18:02
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+bartjolkathy, following a course again?18:02
dreamersgirlhow'd you guess?  :)18:03
dreamersgirlhow's life, bartjol?18:04
+bartjolwell, good, your husband only doesn fix the way I like to see them :P18:05
dreamersgirlwhat's he fixing?18:05
+bartjola bug I reported18:06
dreamersgirli hate bugs.18:06
+perlDreamerthat bug is already fixed18:08
+perlDreamernow, I'm working on the wiring in Bart's new house18:08
dreamersgirlfor the whole house or something specific?18:10
+perlDreamerjust some stuff in the ceiling18:11
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r04ec757 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make a new storage location when an Event is duplicated. Fixes bug #11937. - http://bit.ly/dd95M318:20
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * ra72c5b6 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make a new storage location when an Event is duplicated. Fixes bug #11937. - http://bit.ly/aGtZNG18:20
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CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rd182f0f / (lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm t/Auth/WebGUI.t): add tests and convenience to Auth constructor - http://bit.ly/cI4SUy19:18
@preactionif i were to write a convenience method that will call a deprecated method and throw an info message to the log, where should I put it? WebGUI::Pluggable?19:21
+perlDreamerno, I'd put it in a one-off module19:22
+perlDreamerIt doesn't belong in Pluggable19:22
@preactionbut it will be used in a lot of places, and probably continually19:22
+perlDreamerbut pluggable is for things that have to eval'ed, or use'd19:23
+perlDreamerit's the wrong idea19:23
+perlDreamerit's like putting motor oil in peanut butter19:23
@preactionyet it has methods like "instantiate" and "call"19:23
+perlDreameryes, it tries to use those things, and evals them19:23
+perlDreamerhas nothing to do with deprecation19:23
@preactionthe only "eval" part is the require, call and instantiate then does other magic (in my opinion, poorly, by hiding a standard Perl idiom)19:25
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf2ac0bc / (3 files in 3 dirs): Shortcut uses the wrong date for the overridden getContentLastModified. Fixes bug #11935. - http://bit.ly/awXpi819:27
scrottieand name all of the variables $data1, $data2, $data3, etc.19:27
@preactionbut if not there, then where?19:27
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * re7d8b76 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Shortcut uses the wrong date for the overridden getContentLastModified. Fixes bug #11935. - http://bit.ly/bxhT5q19:27
+perlDreamerthen, we can find out which modules have deprecated methods easily19:27
@preactionwon't be that easy. the Deprecated will be used by the caller, not by the module with the deprecated method19:28
@preactionbecause the custom plugin won't have that deprecated warning, and it may or may not call the superclass method19:28
@preactionwhich is why i thought WebGUI pluggable, since WebGUI::Pluggable->call() is what is being used to call the plugin's method anyway19:29
+perlDreamerI'd wrap the methods that are going to be deprecated, using globs, kind of like a custom debugger19:29
@preactionin all plugins of that kind?19:29
@preactioneven the ones we didn't write which may or may not have the same method signature?19:29
+perlDreamerno, using WebGUI::Deprecated19:29
+perlDreameruse WebGUI::Deprecated qw/method1 method2/;19:30
@preactionWebGUI::Auth::MyAwesomeWebsitesAuthPlugin <- how do I wrap those methods?19:30
Haargit really doesn't sound like something that would go in pluggable to me, but i'm not clear on what you intend for the implementation19:30
+perlDreamerwould wrap those methods in the module that uses WebGUI::Deprecated, then they'd be exported normally19:30
+perlDreamerpreaction: that's custom code, they can deprecate their own methods19:31
@preactionperlDreamer: i'm deprecating an API19:31
+perlDreamerthen deprecate it in WebGUI::Auth19:31
@preactionI can't, because you don't have to call the superclass method. the deprecation warning would be hidden, or worse, it could cause undesired operation19:31
@preactionI have the deprecated method "editUserSettingsForm" and the new better-named method "editSettingsForm". in order to maintain backwards compatibility, I must try to call editUserSettingsForm first, in case the method got overridden. if I do end up calling that, I should spit a message to the log. otherwise I call the new, better-named method19:32
+perlDreamerdude, changing the name of methods just because you don't like them, and then writing a bunch of code to tell everyone that the name changed is like what we went through with JSON 1.0 to 2.0.  That was a nightmare.  My opinion is to stick with the name, not matter how bad it is19:36
@preactionwe have two methods that are named almost the same that do entirely different things19:36
@preactionso i should also keep "deleteParams" and "deleteSingleParam" instead of a single "delete" method?19:37
+perlDreamerI would keep deleteParams, and have a dummy method deleteSingleParam to glue call back to that19:38
+perlDreamerbecause delete is usually delete the object19:38
+perlDreamernot a part of it19:38
@preactionthey are kept, but they're deprecated, just as editUserSettingsForm is deprecated19:39
+perlDreamerto me, it sounds like the method of deprecation that has been chosen is worse then the original19:39
Haarghow many places are you going to need this?19:39
@preactionin Auth? 6 or so. during the entire 8.x series? more19:40
@preaction"method of deprecation"?19:40
+perlDreamerpreaction, please just forget my griping.  It's not useful to debate opinions.19:41
Haargi can think of some games you could play with the symbol table to make it work as something like "deprecate 'oldmethod' => 'newmethod;"19:42
Haargmissed a quote in there19:42
@preactionand that'd get the first bit, making sure either method could be called, but we still have the problem of a subclass overriding and not calling the superclass. that's why i think it needs to be at the interface, not in the module19:44
Haargi mean that that problem could be solved with symbol table mucking19:45
@preactioneven in subclasses? wrapping the deprecated methods as they're loaded using an import() method in the superclass or something?19:46
Haargyou would basically move the method to use the old name19:46
scrottietake a less destructive track than what Acme::CodePolice does.  use Tie::File; tie my @fixthem, (caller)[1]; s/deprecatedMethod/newMethod/ for @fixthem;19:46
Haargthen install a new method on the new name that did the checking and called the old name19:46
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Haargpreaction, http://gist.github.com/65862320:05
Haargseems to work.  not sure if you want that kind of magic though.20:06
@preactionmaking it easier is always better. my version would have broken if anyone else called the old method without using the proper deprecation warnings20:07
@preactionbut if i'm reading this right, it still only occurs when the superclass method is called. but this would work for most instances, and i can do something else for the others20:10
Haargyeah, it would only warn when the new method name is called20:12
Haargbut i'm not sure how you are doing to create a warning for cases where the old name is used, since that is in custom code20:13
Haargand yeah if you put it in pluggable->call you could handle that, but only if they are actually using call20:13
@preactionwell, it's only an issue in this case because the method is only an interface, there's no functionality in the superclass20:14
Haargi don't quite see how that makes any difference20:15
@preactionin this case, there is 0 reason to call the superclass. in the other cases, it's more likely they did call the superclass method20:15
Haargyeah, but that thing i wrote will warn even if they don't call the super class20:16
@preactionoh, then i don't understand what you wrote. would the author have to add this to their code to get the warning? or could I just add it to WebGUI::Auth and any subclasses get this warning ... because I always call the new method, and the proxy method calls the old method if it exists20:20
@preactionand if the subclass doesn't define the new one, the superclass new method gets called20:20
Haargbasically, you would use that in WebGUI::Auth20:21
Haargas long as you always call it with the new name20:21
Haargit would call the old method from their code and warn about it if it exists20:21
Haargor would just run the new method you created if it didn't20:22
Haargand if they used SUPER in their code, it would call the new method20:22
@preactionright, now i understand it. i'll install it and run the tests20:23
@preactioni love how WebGUI::SQL->quickCSV returns undef if any of the rows fail Text::CSV->combine20:50
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CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell master * r4864a75 / (lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm t/SQL.t): fix 11940: quickCSV chokes on newlines in data - http://bit.ly/bu4iui21:41
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell master * r6a7e93f / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : add changelog entry - http://bit.ly/azFH5821:42
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r760c04d / (lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm t/SQL.t): fix 11940: quickCSV chokes on newlines in data - http://bit.ly/9H0xIh21:43
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r0017306 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : add changelog entry - http://bit.ly/d0CVxc21:43
@preactionyay! i'm helping!21:43
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seriftronis there an easy way to find a listing of all the possible field types for a wobject?22:11
seriftroni've checked Asset.pm and Wobject.pm.22:12
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+perlDreamerseriftron, the asset's definition is the place to look for that22:14
Haargfield types correspond to WebGUI::Form modules22:14
+perlDreameror like Haargs said, everything inside of lib/WebGUI/Form22:16
seriftronthanks, perlDreamer & Haarg. i'm just trying to figure out what the possible field types for the fieldType param in a field's definition are, so looks like i should check out WebGUI::Form22:16
+perlDreamerand if there isn't one in there that you need, you can write a custom one22:17
+perlDreameror there are other options, too22:17
seriftronis there one that would allow a user to browse for a WebGUI page in the content tree and save the URL of that page in the DB?22:18
seriftronthought i'd ask before i look myself...22:18
+perlDreamerpreaction: does that save an asset, or a URL?22:18
+perlDreameruh, assetId22:18
@preactionthe assetId22:19
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r42078c2 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove the $ from the EMS badge template. Fixes bug #11933. - http://bit.ly/bVDO6H22:19
seriftroncould easily write a macro to get the URL from assetId, though22:19
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8f31aa0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove the $ from the EMS badge template. Fixes bug #11933. - http://bit.ly/d9xGOM22:21
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r9dfa69e / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade package to the correct location. - http://bit.ly/d8S6bh22:21
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r30ce628 / docs/templates.txt : Document the template changes for the Badge Listing template. - http://bit.ly/bBsYVq22:23
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5ac6a97 / lib/WebGUI/Form/JsonTable.pm : Remove debug input from JsonTable - http://bit.ly/bnFP8122:32
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@preactionis it just me, or is the template edit screen broken?22:41
xdangerdo you have plans to upgrade to yui3? is there anything new in it thats worth it?22:45
Haargthere's a lot of good stuff in yui3 and there are plans to use it in 8 but switching to it is not a simple task22:46
+perlDreamerpreaction, I tested template edit last week with no problems22:50
+perlDreamerbut perhaps it's time to try again22:51
+perlDreamerremember, we deleted the code editor22:51
xdangerI'm not finding any short "diff yui2 yui3" article, but it seems that yui3 has some jquery vibe in it.22:51
@preactionxdanger: we would require 2in3, as there are still things in 2 that have no corrolary in 322:51
@frodwitheh...  it uses a lot of css3 selectors, I wouldn't say that really constitutes a jquery vibe22:51
@frodwiththey have very different feels to them :)22:52
xdangerwell true, but this Y.one("#x"); feels a little like jquerys $...22:53
xdangerbut not much, after I read a little more =D22:54
@frodwithright, you tend to get things with css3 selectors22:54
@frodwithwhich is one of the key coolnesses of jquery22:54
+perlDreamerpreaction: i'm looking at a template edit screen22:55
@frodwithbut it's still very much yui, so no chaining acrobatics, long namespaced functions, a real widget library (actually YUI3's object heirarchy is very yummy)22:55
+perlDreamerwhat are you seeing that's broken?22:55
@preactionthe red box is all around the form and clicking Save does not work22:56
@preactionhttp://beta.webgui.org/demo1288642794_617/default_article?func=edit;proceed=manageAssets <- default un/pw22:57
@preactionhttp://demo.webgui.org/demo1288640655_665/default_article?func=edit;proceed=manageAssets <- same thing on 7.9 demo22:57
+perlDreamerwhich browser are you using, preaction?22:58
+perlDreameri just did that with FF 3.6 and it works fine22:58
@preactiongoogle chrome22:58
@frodwith<-- same issue in chrome22:59
+perlDreamerokay, switch to a real browser and see if you can duplicate it22:59
+perlDreamerso far, we haven't said whether or not we're going to support Chrome for admin functions22:59
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@frodwith"real browser" he says22:59
@frodwithhe's a funny guy, he is22:59
+perlDreamerwell, how 'bout "one that works"?23:00
+perlDreamersince chrome doesn't?23:00
@frodwithchrome works great23:00
@preactionbut is it a problem with the browser or the page?23:00
@frodwithalmost certainly the page.23:00
+perlDreamerI just edited a default template with firefox, and it worked fine23:00
@frodwithjust because it works in firefox doesn't mean it's correct23:00
+perlDreamerno, of course not frodwith23:01
@preactionyeah, the validator just found it. yay!23:01
+perlDreamerso what have I broken now?23:01
@preactioni got it, no worries23:01
Haargold bug.  surprised it wasn't noticed before.23:03
@frodwithhow old haarg?23:04
Haargseptember 200823:04
@frodwiththat can't be right...23:04
@preactionchrome could be fixing errors in tag soup differently now23:04
@frodwithI'm....  fairly sure? i've edited default templates in chrome since then?23:04
@frodwithyeah, that could be.23:04
Haargor other things were masking the problem somehow23:04
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell master * r97020f6 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm): fix 11941 cannot edit default templates - http://bit.ly/bKpbRD23:07
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r68213b4 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm): fix 11941 cannot edit default templates - http://bit.ly/8Xi9YP23:07
+perlDreamerHaarg, how's work on the new translation server?23:09
Haargstalled.  it wouldn't take too long to get working but lacuna has been occupying my time.  i had forgotten about it.23:11
+perlDreamerI'll see about getting the old svn server back up as a stopgap23:12
+perlDreameror, I could try buying some essentia ;)23:12
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+perlDreamerknowing what you do now23:58
+perlDreamerDo you ever wonder how bad the code you wrote 5 years ago is?23:58
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CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r59e848c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm): Don't send i18n values for form controls in www_manageRevisionsInTag. Fixes bug #11926 - http://bit.ly/cR1H0j00:01
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r374acc5 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm): Don't send i18n values for form controls in www_manageRevisionsInTag. Fixes bug #11926 - http://bit.ly/9aNyoK00:01
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SDuensinMorning all.15:30
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cjpatspam: what version of pspp does your .pm work with?20:03
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re66092d / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/HTML.pm t/HTML.t): Anchor words to replace in processReplacements. Fixes bug #11939. - http://bit.ly/cGtypN20:29
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r31b80a2 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/HTML.pm t/HTML.t): Anchor words to replace in processReplacements. Fixes bug #11939. - http://bit.ly/dfyiZn20:29
cjwhat's the function to print info to the log?20:42
+perlDreameror, if you like typing, you can also say $session->errorHandler->session->log->warn("lots of typing")20:53
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6101080 / (docs/gotcha.txt sbin/testEnvironment.pl): Document the new version of Scope::Guard needed for Fork. - http://bit.ly/cJAWto23:41
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra90eadd / (37 files in 22 dirs): Merge commit 'bfe9780ce0e0e1f1bde9fee21392fb22c1e0f2b6' into WebGUI8. Merged up to 7.10.3 - http://bit.ly/aGmNJG23:50
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb214415 / (34 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade directory to correct version. - http://bit.ly/bw3MMM23:50
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc67fcf3 / lib/WebGUI/User.pm : Fix merge issue with User.pm. Need to explicitly use WebGUI::Friends - http://bit.ly/978m4X00:14
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5bda366 / t/AssetHelper/EditBranch.t : Fix leaky assets in the EditBranch asset helper test. - http://bit.ly/a14R5y00:42
+perlDreamerpreaction: we're merged up to 7.10.3, but some of the new tests are leaking assets and tags, which is interfering with other tests01:11
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9ad32eb / t/Admin.t : Remove unused module. - http://bit.ly/cOgMYG01:11
+perlDreamerI've fixed some of them, but not all the way done yet01:11
@preactionperlDreamer: post a note about it and move on. we should really get to the beta blocking tickets01:24
@preactionwhich means finalizing the APIs and preparing things for a public preview01:25
+perlDreamerwhat about Crud?01:26
@preactionwhat about it?01:27
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xdangerif I want a small feature in 7.10 do I need to add a rfe first or do I just do a git fork & push it upstream?03:06
+perlDreamerany new features have to be approved as an rfe03:09
+perlDreamerthen, do the fork and wait for it to be approved03:09
+perlDreamerit it's approved, and you have commit bit, then push upstream03:09
+perlDreamernote, that all new features have to have good POD and tests03:10
xdangerI'd just like to add a few lines to here and there at the moment03:19
+perlDreamerit still needs to be an RFE03:27
+perlDreamerwhat are you thinking about doing/03:27
+perlDreamerooh! shiny new progress bar ala frodwith!03:32
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfaff933 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.10.4 release. - http://bit.ly/98zhQ803:39
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5efd3af / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.5 development. - http://bit.ly/aftxWr04:03
xdangerperlDreamer: http://webgui.pastebin.com/E210pP3w04:15
+perlDreamerthose are all RFEs04:16
+perlDreamerand most of them would require tests04:16
+perlDreamereach macro item is an RFE04:16
+perlDreamerthe Thingy work looks like one RFE all rolled together04:16
+perlDreamerthe URLEncode macro thing is a bug (and it needs tests)04:17
+perlDreamerit's a bug because WebGUI should be UTF-8 safe04:18
xdangerif you encode an url in utf8 it differs from iso-8859-15 encoded04:19
xdangerand some sites only take iso-8859-1 urls04:19
+perlDreamerthat's odd04:20
+perlDreamerI'll be back in a bit04:20
xdangerif you have some umlauts for example in variables04:20
xdangerand by some sites I mean external non-webgui sites04:21
xdangerBut I'll work them in to rfe:s and we'll see what you guys say about them =)04:22
xdangerand write maybe some tests for them04:22
xdangerbut now I have to go get some sleep04:22
xdangerdid they seem like rfe:s that someone else would need or want?04:24
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@preactionwtf is with people having p:hover { background-color: anything } in their stylesheets? who needs the paragraph to change color when you hover over it?17:11
+perlDreamerthey think it's better than the <BLINK> tag?17:16
SDuensinI personally prefer the BLINKing MARQUEE.17:16
+perlDreamerSDuensin, I can recommend a good counselor17:18
@preactionhttp://www.swisstrains.ch/ <- this is awesome17:46
+perlDreameryeah it is18:12
+perlDreamerI'll have to show that to the boys18:12
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+perlDreamerhowdy bartjol!18:32
+perlDreamerJT wasn't elected president, governor, senator, representative, mayor, councilor, ombudsman or in any other position18:38
+perlDreamerit's sad18:38
@preactionour write-in campaign failed :(18:38
+perlDreamerI also had to give Peter the bad news about the new Wisconsin governor18:39
+perlDreamernot only is he anti-train, but he's pro-Joomla18:39
@preactiontrains are bad, mmmkay. they take jobs away from the car makers18:40
+perlDreamerwe like car makers?18:40
+bartjolwhat, he didn, strange18:41
+perlDreameroh boy, holy maintenance Batman!18:47
+perlDreamerjust merged and pushed for review, expect brokenness18:48
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfaff933 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.10.4 release. - http://bit.ly/a7AcdD18:48
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re5608c2 / (34 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade dir to correct version. - http://bit.ly/aubOYa18:49
+bartjoloh, you want me to upgrade witto 7.10 for test?18:56
+bartjoljust reinstalled a computer, because the kernel was to new for the application... next time better research18:57
+bartjolperlDreamer: I already see a release, is that one broken?18:59
+perlDreamer7.10.4 is fine, it's the new WebGUI 8 commit that I just made18:59
+perlDreamerthe new Fork API may not have merged correctly19:00
+perlDreamerI'm running tests now19:00
+bartjolmmm, monkey-patch19:05
@preactionhttp://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2010/11/make-your-websites-run-faster.html <- should we add this to the last 0.9 WRE?19:11
+bartjolis there going to be a new 0.9 wre release then?19:13
+bartjoli like that19:13
@preactionthere will be one final 0.9 release for the 7.x series of WebGUI, then a 1.0 release for the 8.x series19:13
@preactionthough maybe we should call it WRE 8.0 to correspond to the same WebGUI version?19:14
+bartjolwre sticky, as plakerigis  sticky in Dutch19:14
+perlDreamermod_pagespeed wouldn't work with WRE 8 anyway19:15
+perlDreamersince it uses plack19:15
+perlDreamerbut there will be middleware soon, I bet19:15
+perlDreameroh yeah, WebGUI 8 go boom19:15
+bartjolmm, still have to update to latest 8 on my laptop before saturday19:16
+perlDreamerI would hold off at least today19:17
+perlDreamerI broke a lot of things with that last merge19:17
+bartjolwell, haven got my laptop here now19:17
@preactionright, but it'd be nice for the 0.9 WRE, as i've always said we should give 7 a good sendoff, as once 7.10 goes stable people may not upgrade for a while19:17
+bartjolwell, speed improvements would be nice19:17
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3f49d25 / sbin/testEnvironment.pl : Document minimum version of HTTP::BrowserDetect needed for mobile method and recent browsers. - http://bit.ly/bpksPB19:30
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r10b832b / (lib/WebGUI/Form/HTMLArea.pm lib/WebGUI/Session/Style.pm): Fix mobile browser detection. - http://bit.ly/9144np19:30
+perlDreamerpreaction: I want to float an idea past you19:30
+perlDreamerWebGUI is so big, I think it needs lieutenants in charge of sub-parts19:30
+perlDreamerI don't know19:31
+perlDreamerthere's you and me, and...19:31
@preactionexactly, though I agree completely with your idea19:32
@preactionwhich is why I want there to be a smaller "Core" webgui, a "Base" set with some assets, and a "Full" set with everything19:33
@preactionthen we can have someone responsible for Core, someone for the additions in Base, and someone for the additions in Full19:33
+perlDreameryou need to go back to blogging all this stuff19:33
+perlDreamerbecause that's a great idea19:34
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@preactionBase would have only Template assets, Layout assets, Articles, Snippets, Files, Images, and Folders, everything else would be in Full19:35
@preactionthen you could eventually do: cpan install Bundle::WebGUI::Core or something like that19:36
+perlDreamerwell, and if we worked hard enough, I think we could replace Spectre with Fork19:49
@preactionexcept for the cron bits19:49
+perlDreamerI think we could do the cron bits, too19:50
@preactionthe fork would have to happen immediately19:50
+perlDreamerthere would have to be some kind of lock, yes, so that multiple children don't fork to get a cron process19:51
@preactionno, the fork would exist only to check the time19:52
+perlDreamera spectre-less WebGUI would look very attractive to cheap shared hosting20:04
+perlDreamerbetween that, and local::lib...20:04
@preactionin theory we could already use WebGUI::Fork to fork off a spectre process20:05
@preactionso the whole thing is the same, just Spectre starts with webgui20:05
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbd48b97 / t/AdSpace/Ad.t : Cleanup the AdSpace created for testing. - http://bit.ly/d4z97R20:36
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r53280ba / t/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.t : Cleanup a test merge. - http://bit.ly/avAMsb20:36
@preaction"We need to be able to grant view rights to multiple groups for any single asset" <- how long do you think that will take to make?21:05
+perlDreamer0 time21:10
+perlDreamermake a group that contains them all21:10
@preactionthat's not what they want there. that's an inefficient way to do things, really21:11
+perlDreamerbut it's 0 cost.  You can have it now, for free21:11
+perlDreamerotherwise, it's ugly21:11
@preactioni'd like a UI element that allows you to pick users and groups and makes a group based on those users and groups, that'd be awesome21:11
@preactionbut yes, i'll present both options. they'll probably go with the no-cost one21:12
* perlDreamer wanders off for lunch21:12
@preactionooh, I also get to improve how dashlets work!21:15
ckotilpreaction: i was quoted ~$3K for that very feature about 3 years ago :)21:15
@preactionwhich one? the multiple groups one?21:16
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@preactionyeah, that sounds about right, considering how it will affect every single asset and most other things in WebGUI21:16
ckotilquote # 1011921:16
@preactionthough 3 years ago our test coverage was far lower21:17
ckotil$2,300. sorry.21:17
ckotilwould have been a neat feature.21:18
@preactionwell, someone else may fund it now21:18
ckotilbut as it is, we're getting by using groups of groups groups of.etc...21:18
@preactionand those work just fine, and that's actually how it would work on the backend, the group would show up in the list "Group to view <asset title> <assetId>", and you'd be able to edit it from either interface21:19
@preactionheck, the Group Manager would probably use the same interface, that thing needs an overhaul anyway21:19
@preactionall our interfaces do :(21:19
@preactionbut these guys want dashlets more than they want the multiple groups thing, i'll bet21:20
@preactiondamn do i hate dashlets... not enough done to make it sane yet, but then nobody uses it so i can see why21:22
ckotilWe've beent talking about useing it for a long time. We just need more integration with internal tools before we move forward with it21:23
@preactionwell, maybe we'll have something far more useful. right now there's evil Shortcut hackery21:23
ckotilshortcuts proved very useful recently. we had to expose a lot of documentation to whole new set of users. rather than duplicating the content , the shortcut asset worked like a charm21:24
@preactionoh yes, in that regard, and with overrides, the shortcut is awesome, but it has two hacky bits:21:24
@preactionShortcut By Metadata, and the Dashboard Integration21:25
cjhow do I get the logger to print a stacktrace along with messages?21:48
@preactionedit log.conf to add %n%T to the log format21:48
@preaction%n adds a newline, %T the stack trace21:48
cjsuper.  thanks!21:49
@preactioni usually then add %n%n to the end, so it's obvious where the breaks are21:49
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+perlDreamerTGC needs to stock these: http://click.email.thinkgeek.com/?qs=d8dfacdff5b6f132ec3f575d5eb9addba21c63db90026eb1ccb471aedbb3590f22:01
* perlDreamer heads over to the ideas board22:04
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r50a9dd0 / lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm : Begin moving Fork over to the new Session API. Tests are still failing. - http://bit.ly/cSAzfx22:23
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf5764b0 / (lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm t/Fork.t): Update Fork to work with 8. All tests passing. - http://bit.ly/9kuPSb22:23
+perlDreamerpreaction: take a look at this please: http://gist.github.com/66164922:27
+perlDreamerthat happened during a test22:27
+perlDreamerI'm going to see if it's repeatable22:27
+perlDreamerit's way odd22:27
* perlDreamer is off to pick up kids22:34
@preactionthat is weird. it should be $^O not ^O()22:40
cjscrottie0: 19:48 <@preaction> edit log.conf to add %n%T to the log format22:50
scrottie0forgot I was here... didn't fire xchat back up when X crashed.22:51
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cjperlDreamer: let me know when you're back.  :)23:20
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--- Day changed Thu Nov 04 2010
* perlDreamer is back00:26
@preactionlearned a new trick: using graham's WebGUI::Deprecate, you cannot deprecate a method in a subclass that is already deprecated in the superclass. causes infinite recursion!00:30
@preactionotherwise, the WebGUI::Deprecate works awesome!00:31
+perlDreamerinfinite recursion.  Now, if only we could harness the power of that, we could throw away these faulty zero-point field generators.00:35
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2685352 / t/SQL.t : Fix number of tests in SQL.t - http://bit.ly/c2OPPv00:39
@preactionooh, a problem: the superclass overrides the new method, but the caller calls the old method, which only seems to call the superclass's new method. i have to redispatch instead00:44
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Haargsuperclass overrides new?  not sure i understand.00:56
@preactionAuth has www_displayLogin. Auth::WebGUI has www_displayLogin. Caller calls "displayLogin", but only Auth->www_displayLogin seems to get called00:57
Haargi'd have to see the actual code i guess01:01
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@preactionHaarg: checkout https://github.com/preaction/webgui/tree/8 and run t/Operation/Auth.t01:14
@preactiontest 7 fails01:14
@preactionnow, i could make an argument for more of the WebGUI::Auth superclass to take over from WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI, but it'd be better to fix this01:15
@preactionit seems like Deprecate should do something like $self->$new_method(@_) somewhere01:30
@preactionbut using it as the replacement for oldmethod doesn't work01:30
Haargthe code should probably be a bit clearer in what it is trying to do01:31
@preactionso it gets redispatched to the top of the inheritence tree, instead of only at the exact place you call deprecate01:31
@preactionputting deprecate in the subclass as well causes an infinite loop01:32
@preactioneither that, or the proxy method should inject into $self's package01:34
Haargwhy do you want to have deprecate in the subclass as well?01:34
@preactioni don't want to, it's just the subclass was fixed, but now the API is broken01:35
@preactioni was just trying things to try to fix it01:35
Haarglib/WebGUI/Operation/Auth.pm line 85 or s01:39
Haarghow did that ever work?01:40
Haargor oh i guess i'm dumb01:40
@preactionyeah, sorry, the test is really failing because there's a LoginBox macro in the page, which calls displayLogin, not www_displayLogin01:40
Haargwww_view calls displayLogin as well01:41
@preactionooh, missed that one01:41
Haargi'm still missing something though.  can you describe how the method is getting called and how it is failing?01:42
@preactionLoginMacro or WebGUI::Session::Privilege is calling WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI->displayLogin; that doesn't exist anymore, so it goes to WebGUI::Auth->displayLogin...01:43
@preactiondeprecate displayLogin => 'www_displayLogin'; creates the proxy method for displayLogin, and now we've got something to call01:43
Haargok i get it now01:44
@preactionnow, of course i'll fix the erroneous call to displayLogin, but core's probably not the only one doing it01:44
Haargand the whole point is to keep it backwards compatible01:45
@preactionso the warning in there is good, but there needs to be something else to say "dude, you called the wrong thing, dingbat"01:45
+perlDreamerthrow an exception?01:46
@preactionit's deprecated, not discontinued. can't throw yet01:47
@preactionthough i imagine 9.0 will add "discontinue" to the mix, throwing nice exceptions when calling old methods01:47
@preactionuh... wtf it started working now that www_view was fixed02:02
@preactionbecause the test isn't correct, WebGUI->www_displayLogin is not being called before Auth->www_displayLogin still02:03
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Haargpreaction, i have a new deprecate thing that works better hopefully02:08
Haargno warnings yet, so let me get that done and we'll see how it goes02:09
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Haargpreaction, http://gist.github.com/66193602:19
Haargneeds its own tests really02:19
@preactioni can handle that02:20
Haargand i didn't finish the docs obviously02:20
Haargi really wish you could localize lexicals02:20
@preactionthis looks like something that could be released on CPAN, honestly02:21
Haargmaybe, although it only works for methods02:22
@preactioneh, so call it dep_method or something, and have dep_sub02:23
@preactionthough wouldn't dep_method call dep_sub in the end?02:23
Haargdeprecating subs would just be adding the alias with the warning02:25
@preactionHaarg: all works beautifully now, after i fixed the broken parts of the test and fixed stuff the new deprecate revealed i had missed. thanks02:44
CIA-67webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r5a2d4d8 / (7 files in 3 dirs): change to www_ methods everywhere - http://bit.ly/bP0TBL02:44
CIA-67webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf515d85 / (5 files in 4 dirs): fix tests for www_auth. fix deprecate for callers - http://bit.ly/cvFdWc02:44
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CIA-67webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * r5e5e65c / lib/WebGUI/ProgressBar.pm : AssetHelper dialogs close properly now - http://bit.ly/aGRxp916:32
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym18:15
+perlDreamerso that someday, I can beat bartjol in an arm wrestling match18:15
+bartjolthat won't be hard18:16
@preactionyay! Auth done! now for more documentation19:10
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+perlDreamerand tests!19:20
+perlDreamerdon't forget the tests19:20
@scrottiewho is sending sig TERMs to my httpd and how do I make it stop?19:21
+bartjolperlDreamer: did you repair that wg8 feature tou introduced yesterday?19:23
+perlDreamerscrottie, look at the wremonitor perhaps?19:23
+perlDreamerbartjol: WebGUI8 is good19:23
+bartjolok, then I can use it to show people saturday at T-Dose19:23
+perlDreamerscrottie, you could also be suffering from Apache2::SizeLimit problems, so try upping the limits in modperl.pl19:24
@preactionperlDreamer: tests were first on the list19:25
@preactionauth is still wonky though. there's things that the superclass do that only really apply to WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI and no other auth module ever19:26
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+perlDreamerand why exactly do the proximity of "Auth" and "wonky" surprise you?19:30
@preactionbecause i thought i could fix most of it and write some coherent, easy-to-follow docs. i was wrong.19:31
@preactionno, wait, i'm right. i can, but i have to go higher19:31
+perlDreamerAuth -> toilet -> sewage -> fields -> compost -> fertilizer -> Auth219:31
@preactionbecause there's really only one www entry point, www_view (formerly init)19:31
@preactioni figure if i can get people to look at it differently, and write better auth subclasses, it won't matter what i do to break it during 8.x19:32
+perlDreamerwhat you're doing is pretty new19:36
+perlDreamerwe just broke the Asset API outright19:36
+perlDreamerand told people how to convert19:36
@preactionright, but asset wasn't the most egregious problem. that honor goes to Auth and Operation19:37
@preactionhm... should auth methods be configured in the config file? i can't think of any reason to have, for example, the twitter API key in the website19:39
CIA-67webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * re128c04 / (docs/migration.txt lib/WebGUI/User.pm): fix User deprecations - http://bit.ly/9WiatX19:41
CIA-67webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r1cebfdd / lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm : fix Auth docs - http://bit.ly/ddxBm719:41
CIA-67webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r4edaf02 / lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm : add more docs to Auth - http://bit.ly/9YBaLe19:41
+perlDreamerthe only reason I can think of to have it in the website is so people can add it on the fly19:42
+perlDreamerrather than needing to have command line access to add it19:42
+perlDreamerwell, and it's more work to add it to the UI than add it to the config file19:45
@preactionright, so like i want to do for Admin plugins, we should have both19:45
@preactionadmin plugins have config file, but not a hook for the settings form19:45
@preactionand we need to reevaluate the hugeness of the settings and reorganize it a bit19:45
@preactionan accordion menu instead of a tabview, perhaps19:46
@preactionyay! i'm unravelling www_editSave into something COHERENT!19:48
@preactionthen all we've got is the issue tracker and we're done!19:48
+perlDreamernot sure I followed you on that one chief19:50
+perlDreamerdo you migrating it to WebGUI 819:50
@preactionall the tickets on the issue tracker for 819:50
@preactionno, this is 819:51
+perlDreamerwe'll need to do that, too though19:51
@preactionwww_add and www_addSave now, instead of www_editSave handling both19:51
+perlDreamerany custom code for webgui.org needs to be migrated over19:51
@preactionoh, yes19:51
+perlDreamerKarmaGifter, macros, anything else19:51
@preactionthat'll be our time to test the docs/migration.txt19:51
+perlDreamerbtw, I have "functioning" Crud code19:52
+perlDreamerwhere functioning ~~ 40%19:52
@preactionwe just need something to limp along with while we move to a better one19:53
@preactioni've been told DBIC is my only option, by certain interested parties19:53
+perlDreamercertain interested parties with long chin hair and arched eyebrow?19:53
@preactionno, Getty19:57
+perlDreamerweren't you favoring Fey::ORM?19:58
@scrottieI remember back in the old days when Perl was both far more popular and cool, and *also* less fad obsessed.19:59
+perlDreameroh, less fad obsessed19:59
+perlDreamerlike NNTP clients19:59
+perlDreamerIRC clients19:59
+perlDreamerexternal interface of the day19:59
@scrottieno one ever said, "you _must_ use this one NNTP client or else your code sucks"19:59
+perlDreamerno, we just said, you have to use Perl or your code sucks :)19:59
+perlDreamerand sometimes, their code sucked anyway20:00
@preactioni'm not an idiot, i will attempt to make what i want to with an ORM before i choose which one20:01
@preactioni want a basic CRUD webgui app, whichever one makes a better, more extensible one, wins20:01
CIA-67webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r4bb4dce / lib/WebGUI/User.pm : add WebGUI::Deprecate line - http://bit.ly/9Y4eIw20:16
+perlDreamerI could use some Moose sugar help from the assembly20:18
+perlDreamerthis is for the Moose based Crud20:18
+perlDreamerI setup "define" methods for tableName, which was good20:19
+perlDreamerI also used define for tableKey and sequenceKey20:19
+perlDreamerIt would be sugary to create those methods in the consumers namespace, instead of making them declare it twice20:19
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CIA-67webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf14545e / lib/WebGUI/User.pm : only warn once on deprecations - http://bit.ly/c1fj5820:20
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seriftronHey, question about WebGUI::Form::Asset (the asset browser). Is it possible to set a starting path for this control that the asset browser starts at?20:37
seriftronDon't see anything in the docs about it...20:37
@preactionyes, look in the definition sub20:38
@preactioner... maybe you have to give it a value20:38
seriftronHm, I just see label, name, and class20:41
@preactionyeah, you might just have to give it a value20:44
@preactionalso, that form control is going to get redone, as it sucks really really badly20:45
seriftronEh, it does what I need to in this case, but good to hear!20:47
@preactioni like how windows' new explorer works20:49
@preactionor the slide-view from OS X20:49
seriftronThe asset icons would be helpful to see beside the file names (like on the main asset tree) to make it easier to browse20:52
@preactionyes, have it all be JS would be nice too, faster20:55
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Gettypreaction: what?! :-)21:33
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knowmadpreaction: Howdy! I'm trying to get Cache::FastMmap running using CHI and WebGUI 7.9.14. However, I'm getting errors in my logs. See http://webgui.pastebin.com/u1FWvx1W22:37
@preactionsudo rm -rf `perldoc -l Linux::Smaps` <- i assume you're on a redhat derivative?22:38
knowmadLooks like the web server doesn't have permission to modify the file (it's read-only)22:38
knowmadactually, i'm on ubuntu22:38
knowmadIt looks like Linux::Smaps is shipped with perl.22:39
@preactionit might be that the kernel isn't allowing non-root to read that file, as it may contain sensitive info. there's a future patch that allows the process to read its own smap, but for now your best bet is to just delete Linux::Smaps22:39
@preactionnope, not in core Perl. is in the WRE though22:40
knowmadcool, thanks22:40
@preactionis this still your 64-bit box you compiled the WRE on?22:40
knowmadi've also got CHI running on a 32-bit box22:40
knowmadi'm going to check if we're seeing the same issues there; it's a more recent kernel than the 64-bit box22:41
knowmadshould my modperl processes be getting bigger as a result of using CHI?22:42
knowmadi'm seeing lots of errors about SizeLimit killing off processes22:43
knowmadlooks like Cache::FastMmap is behaving nicely under 32-bit Ubuntu22:45
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@preactionyour processes will appear to get bigger because of FastMmap22:50
@preactionbut you should only have to increase Max_Shared_size22:51
knowmadok, i'll try that22:55
knowmadis that the same as $Apache::SizeLimit::MAX_PROCESS_SIZE  = 10000; # 10MB22:56
knowmadactually, i'm showing the UNSHARED size also dramatically increasing22:57
knowmadwonder if that's a 64-bit issue...22:57
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scrottie0stuff that doesn't get mmap'd in but instead was already there before a vfork is non-shared.  mmap'd in memory isn't shared in the same way, even though it is shared... it isn't copy-on-write memory from the parent process.22:59
scrottie0too many negatives.  I botched that.23:00
scrottie0stuff that *was* there before a vfork is shared.23:00
scrottie0stuff that wasn't there before a vfork isn't considered shared, even though it might actually be.23:00
knowmadso does the mmap stuff get loaded before or after forking?23:00
knowmadso that's why it's increasing my unshared size?23:01
scrottie0that's a pretty good guess.23:01
scrottie0you can dig around in /proc for more details...23:01
knowmadthat makes sense; so the more clients I setup under fastmmap, the bigger my share will get23:01
knowmads/share/mem usage/23:01
knowmadlooking at my logs i see that the shared memory is small (3844Kb)23:02
scrottie0re: /proc.23:02
knowmadunshared is huge (370000Kb)23:03
knowmadok, thanks for the info; i'll keep an eye on it23:04
knowmadglad to have the Smaps errors removed23:04
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@preactionokay, so it's technically shared, as it's mmap, but it's reported as unshared23:04
scrottie0you can mmap in "anonymous" memory that can't be shared... you can mmap in a file that another process may or may not also mmap in... 23:06
knowmadOk, i've had enough fun with memory for the day23:06
scrottie0I've had enough fun with the wre for the day =|23:06
knowmadgoing to enjoy the rest of my b'day! thanks guys...23:06
scrottie0no sh!t.  knowmad++.23:06
knowmad++ indeed23:07
@preactionsheesh, get out of here and have fun23:07
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+perlDreamerhe could use that for more memory!23:07
* scrottie0 ponders `more /proc/6595/task/6595/stat` for one of the httpd processes23:09
+perlDreamerwhat kind of wre problems are you having, scrottie0?23:11
+perlDreameryay! crud progress23:18
scrottie0wremonitor always telling me that starting modperl failed.  too low of a memory limit.  coredumps in an XS module built against the wre perl.  no diagnostic output when mysql fails to start with wreservice.pl --verbose --start mysql.23:23
scrottie0a far more obnoxious program has been drawing my ire lately though.23:24
scrottie0this bit of free software failed on startup with a sanity check about word size when built on 64 bit linux.  so I built it on 32 just in case somehow the 64-bit-iness was leaking over.  it still failed the same check.23:25
scrottie0one the deps is a specific commit of a library.23:25
scrottie0the docs are circular and avoid at all costs giving examples.23:26
scrottie0wre did some other stuff that pissed me off too.  i just don't remember right now, having been distracted by this other p.o.s.23:28
+perlDreamerwre diagnostics leave a lot to be desired, for sure23:55
--- Day changed Fri Nov 05 2010
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elninohello all!05:14
elninobye all!05:21
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+perlDreameryay, got the entire test to run17:06
+perlDreamerfor 8's new Crud17:06
+perlDreamernow, if only they all passed...17:06
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+bartjolscope is important in perl....17:17
+perlDreamerbartjol: indeed17:18
+bartjoland, Koen is father of a boy!17:19
+bartjolHuub, and I'm not gonna try to let you pronounce that17:19
+perlDreamerdoes the boy have a name?17:19
+perlDreameroh, I'm sure with enough beer that I'll be able to pronounce it, or you'll find it funny17:20
+bartjolyeah, that is a bit too much of an if(){} else{} construction17:21
+perlDreamerif ($colin->has_beer and $bart->has_beer) { return $colin->pronounces || $bart->finds_it->funny; }17:23
+bartjoleven better, sorry, hacking on a dns tool17:48
+bartjolnot really paying attention here17:49
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@preactionquestion: should we distribute additional things with the WRE like zabbix_agent and munin?19:15
@preactionscrottie had a security integrity daemon he mentioned that might be good too, but i can't find the logs for the name anymore19:16
@preactionalso, perlDreamer, would you mind if I changed "valid_parent_classes" into "valid_child_classes" that returns a list and isValidChild will pass if any class ISA tested_class?19:18
@preactionthat way, i can be on a Layout and ask it what kinds of assets I am allowed to add, instead of asking every asset if they're allowed to be on a Layout19:18
+perlDreamervalid_parent_classes has a dual use19:19
+perlDreamer1) it does valid parent checking19:20
+perlDreamer2) it tells the asset what kind of parent that it needs when building parent chains for testing19:20
+perlDreamerotherwise, when testing, you have to poll all available assets to see if they can contain me as a child19:21
@preactionso six of one, half-dozen of the other19:21
+perlDreamernot quite19:21
+perlDreamercanAdd is called on $self19:21
+perlDreamerwhich checks $session->asset19:21
+perlDreamerwhich is the parent19:21
+perlDreamerI don't think it will work inversely19:21
+perlDreameryeah, maybe it will19:22
@preactioncanAdd is changing, as www_add is changing19:22
+perlDreameryou just ask session->asset if it can child self19:22
+perlDreamerI'm not opposed, as long as t/run_asset.t works when you're through19:22
+perlDreamerI've never heard of munin, but I don't think we should distribute zabbix with the WRE19:23
+perlDreamerto run it, you gotta have a PHP server19:23
@preactionwe don't distribute the server, just the agentd19:23
+perlDreamerbut what good is one without the other?19:23
+perlDreamerat least with awstats, you have a complete solution19:23
@preactionthey'd have to set up the server themselves19:23
@preactionmunin is a resource monitor thing19:24
+perlDreamermaybe we should sub-class the WRE for our deployment purposes?19:24
@preactiongraphs and the like19:24
+perlDreamerthat's cool19:24
@preactionwe could also do that, even provide it as a "Pro WRE Node" and "Pro WRE Server (including Zabbix Server and SecurityServer and *gasp* Automat)"19:25
@preactionwell, automat won't make it past the suits, but the rest of it19:25
+perlDreamerI think I know how to do in-memory assets19:35
@preactionuh, i hope so, because they work?19:35
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+perlDreamerreally, how do you make an in-memory only asset?19:42
@scrottiewhat the heck is zabbix anyway?19:47
@scrottiethere's tripwire... and there's the thing like it that runs remotely whose name I don't remember... and there are a few rootkit sniffers...19:50
+perlDreamerzabbbix is system monitoring software with centralized reporting19:52
+perlDreamerCrud.t passes!20:04
+perlDreamertime for docs, and then all sub-tests20:04
@preactionscrottie: yes, that one, stealth20:05
+perlDreamerwithout apache in the WRE, it should get smaller20:11
+perlDreamerpreaction: did you ever download the new VM image that I uploaded to give it a spin?20:11
+perlDreamerit'd be nice to have a 2nd pair of eyes, since it's the first time I did that20:11
+perlDreameralthough, virtualBox is pretty nice20:12
Haargi still really want to get rid of image magick.  it's the one remaining painful prereq.20:16
+perlDreamerMMAP has some hangups, too20:17
+perlDreamerbut yet, ImageMagick would be good to remove20:17
Haargyeah there are a couple other areas where you can run into problems20:17
Haargbut they are easy to work around20:18
@scrottieSurvey.pm uses exception handling to break out of the sandbox when it needs to get more data in.20:32
@scrottieI'm seeing traces from Survey.pm in my log when running certain unit tests.20:32
@scrottieis this normal?  or is my WebGUI going to fall off?20:32
@scrottiesorry, Survey::ExpressionEngine.20:32
+perlDreamerscrottie: for a benchmark, grab a VM image of WebGUI on CentOS, and run it.20:37
+perlDreamerI don't remember seeing any ExpressionEngine errors, but that doesn't mean that they aren't in there20:38
+perlDreamermaybe even by deliberate testing20:38
+perlDreamerpatspam++ is a very, very thorough test writer20:38
* perlDreamer goes AFK for lunch, et. al.20:40
patspamhaarg++ # death to image magick!20:45
Haargi got storage working using imager instead but the graph stuff is a lot more work to convert20:46
patspamI just read the latest CPAN Testers blog post about how cpan modules get tested on over 100 platforms20:47
patspammade me think it'd be worth building a wrapper around sqlite + a subset of WebGUI that can be uploaded to cpan just for the sake of getting tested20:48
patspamI'd do it if I wasn't starting the new job on monday ;)20:49
patspammaybe after I settle in20:49
Haargi'd work on making WebGUI work as a cpan dist if i could get rid of yui but there isn't a good way to do that20:49
patspamwhat issue does YUI introduce?20:49
Haargit adds tons of files20:50
Haargwhich makes the normal make or build process very slow20:50
patspamcould you make it a CDN-by-default wG build?20:51
Haargi'd like to but that involves adding config stuff for yui20:51
patspamI thought yui cdn options were added a few months ago?20:52
Haargi started working on it but it wasn't complete20:52
patspamah ok20:53
Haargbasically, we want yui3 but it is a lot of work to use it, even though not much of the actual js code would need to change20:53
Haargso adding extra options/upgrades/complexity for yui that would just get thrown out had kind of been rejected20:53
patspamyou could build a dist that isn't supposed to be used by anyone (at least for now)20:55
patspame.g. just leave yui out of it20:56
patspamjust for the sake of free testing20:56
Haargyeah, or include a script that would download yui as part of an install process20:56
Haargkind of hard to be motivated to spend the time doing the work when it can't be used though20:56
patspamyeah true20:57
patspambeen reading the catalyst book this week20:59
patspameven now that we have plack in wg8 I can still see value in porting wg to catalyst21:00
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+perlDreamerpatspam: it's not fair to tease us like that, and then wander off elsewhere ;)22:12
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SquOnkIs there a reason for not being able to create multiple shortcuts in a single operation from the Asset Manager?22:52
SquOnkI mean, you can select several assets and then Cut/Copy/Delete/Duplicate...22:52
SquOnk...why isn't there a 'Create Shortcut' button too?22:52
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+perlDreamerSquOnk, no idea23:14
+perlDreamersounds like a great RFE23:15
+perlDreamerpreaction: what's the freeze window for 7.10?23:15
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@preactionperlDreamer: shall we say second week of december? however that matches up to a 7.10 release?23:48
+perlDreamerworks for me chief23:49
+perlDreamerthat gives people 6 weeks23:49
@preactionthen we got a few weeks before the break to stabilize, then when we come back from break we'll have the stable 7.10 release23:49
@preactionwhy again do we have lastModified and revisionDate? because lastModified gets changed by any call to update()?23:54
+perlDreamerpreaction: that's what I'd assume.  However, the reason for that is lost in the sands of time.23:55
@preactionsigh... i love having two stores for the same data23:55
+perlDreamerwell, you can call update without making a revision23:55
@preactionwe should stop using revisionDate and start using revisionId23:55
+perlDreamerso it makes sense to have lastModified23:56
@preactionthen revisionDate could change and it wouldn't matter23:56
@preactionwell... does it even matter now?23:56
+perlDreamerbut why would you ever change a revisionDate?23:56
+perlDreamerrevisionId is almost like tagId23:56
@preactionwhat other reasons do we need lastModified? 23:56
@preactionno, revisionId would be per-asset. tagId is a foreign key23:56
+perlDreamerhow would you find the current revision without the date, and sorting by date?23:57
+perlDreamerwould you store the current revisionId in the asset table?23:57
+perlDreameror do you have some other plan?23:57
@preactionyou'd still have the date, or storing the current revisionId in the asset table would be nice too23:58
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@preactionyou'd still need the date for other things, but it wouldn't have to be important23:58
+perlDreamerI like storing it, since you don't have to do a sub-select anymore23:58
@preactionbut being able to join back and forth from the asset table, without having to subselect revisionDate would be awesome23:58
+perlDreamerbut, iirc, I had this talk with Haarg and he had a good reason why not to do that23:58
@preactionany objections? i leave the floor open. otherwise i'm doing it23:58
+perlDreamermaybe it was with rizen23:59
@preactionhumph. always killing my parade23:59
+perlDreameri have an objection23:59
@preactionit would destroy many SQLReports, or at least fuck with them a little bit23:59
+perlDreamerit's not on the 8 TODO list, and we're 10 weeks away from alpha release23:59
@preactionwe couldn't just drop revisionDate23:59
+perlDreamerthat's the only objection that I have to doing it23:59
@preactionright, but this would be just an addition, a new part we can take advantage of during 8.x to simplify things23:59
+perlDreamerI don't even care about the SQL Reports.  They can rework them23:59
--- Day changed Sat Nov 06 2010
@preactionin fact, we don't have to migrate anything at all, it just gets updated as "current" changes while tags are committed00:00
+perlDreameroh, you mean add it to the list, not do it right now?00:00
@preactionthen over time we can change things, after writing the docs that explain it00:00
@preactionright, it's a "can do anytime" thing, it's new, not breaking any apis whatsoever00:00
+perlDreamerbah, documentation.  Good tests supersede those.00:00
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@preactionwell, for example, check out my Admin docs, and my new ... crap I wrote nice docs for something, now I don't remember what00:01
@preactionFormBuilder maybe?00:01
@preactionno, i couldn't, Auth is pretty simple, one real entry point: www_view00:01
@preactioneverything else is a hodgepodge between the base class and Auth::WebGUI which needs to be sorted out00:02
+perlDreamerit's not FormBuilder, it's missing lots of POD00:02
+perlDreamerand there's nothing in docs/migration.txt about it either00:03
+perlDreamerbut there's nothing to migrate, really00:03
+perlDreameraside from how to convert from *Form to FormBuilder maybe?00:03
@preactionnot really, no. humph...00:03
@preactionmaybe it was... graham wrote something awesome that we added that i wrote docs for to make POD.t shut the hell up00:04
@preactionnot Upgrade00:04
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@preactioneh, oh well, the idea being that you should be able to get a basic understanding from the POD00:04
+perlDreamer"graham writing something awesome" doesn't narrow it down very much00:04
@preactioni know, right?00:04
+perlDreamersimilar to "doug writing something awesome"00:05
@preactioni do have to doc the WebGUI::Deprecate which kicks all ass everywhere. is gonna make this whole thing so much easier00:05
@preactiongonna add some helper methods, and then take an hour and actually figure out how it works, as i understand the theory, but i couldn't fix it when it needed extending00:05
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* perlDreamer takes a foosball break00:06
@preactioni just noticed, if anyone ever adds an asset to bring a site over maximum assets, nobody will ever get to save another asset again, unless an asset gets deleted00:12
@preactionso if an upgrade adds an asset...00:12
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+perlDreamerthen we have a static site!00:23
@preactioni keep wanting to do everything and then run/write tests, but it'll be easier if i do one thing, then run/write tests, then the next thing, etc...00:34
+perlDreameryeah, it's slow and methodical, but safe00:35
@preactionperlDreamer: do all the run_asset.t tests pass for you?00:35
+perlDreamerthey don't even run00:35
@preactionoh, fun, i need them.00:35
+perlDreamerafter the last merge from FormBuilder/getEditForm, they take hours to run due to calling sleep lots00:35
@preactionah, i can fix that00:36
@preactionand yeah they won't pass either, i can fix that too00:36
@preactiondoes AssetExportHtml.t pass?00:36
+perlDreamerthat's one of the tests that didn't pass due to leaks00:37
+perlDreamerhowever, on yesterday's run, it did pass, even though it did leak a tag00:38
+perlDreameralthough the tag was empty with no assets00:38
@preactionokay, so i'll fix the admin test then00:39
@preactioni'm fixing www_edit www_add and the whole notion of saving and version tags, so i'm gonna need the tests ;-)00:39
+perlDreameroh yeah you are00:40
+perlDreamerwhen you run the tests, be sure to set WEBGUI_TEST_DEBUG=100:40
+perlDreamerthat'll help with tracking when you get the tag cleaned up00:41
@preactionbut when i'm done i think we'll all like the results00:41
+perlDreamerfoosball break01:09
+perlDreamer10-1 to the home team for Goalie wars01:18
SquOnkWhat would you suggest to carry a "Quote of the Week" section?01:22
SquOnk"To be or not to be, that's the question" -- Shakespeare01:23
SquOnk"To be or not to be, is that a question?" -- SquOnk01:23
SquOnkOn the main page we would use a shortcut with and overriding template so that only the most recent quote is shown.01:23
SquOnkBut the "Quotes of the Week" page should list them all, with pagination.01:24
@preactiona CS would work01:30
SquOnkpreaction: Probably as a Weblog without replies...01:34
@preactionwell, i'd do a whole custom template really, but yes01:34
SquOnkpreaction: A hint?01:36
SquOnkpreaction: What to use instead of a weblog01:37
@preactiona shortcut with a template override added to your style templates with an assetproxy, and then a normal CS somewhere. use the title as the quote, either content or userDefined1 as the author or something01:37
@preactiona custom template, you write a template yourself01:38
SquOnkuserDefined1, that's it01:38
@preactiondid Scope::Guard's API change?01:41
@preactionor did i just not update01:41
SquOnkpreaction: How about a Q&A and use the Question for the quote and Answer for the attribution?01:52
SquOnk...I guess it's the same anyway01:53
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+perlDreamerpreaction: you need to update01:54
@preactionyeah, it's fixed now01:54
+perlDreamerFork uses a new API for exporting a guard subroutine01:54
@preactionrunning a full run again01:54
+perlDreamerI had to update testE and gotchas.txt01:54
SquOnkWhat does "Make sticky" and "Lock" mean for a CS? (Sorry, I'm dumbed down by now)02:07
@preactionSticky keeps it at the top. Lock means no more replies02:08
SquOnkpreaction: Thanks!02:08
@preactionperlDreamer: if we implemented the revisionId thing, we could fix the sleeping in the run_asset.t, we could have multiple revisions in the same second02:17
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+perlDreamerSquOnk, there used to be a Glossary page in the webgui Wiki that describes that kind of stuff02:35
+perlDreamerjust in case your friendly oracular preaction isn't in the room02:35
@preactionSquOnk: also the Content Manager's guide02:36
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+perlDreamerpreaction, how would you implement an AJAX version of www_editSave?02:41
+perlDreamerI don't know if it's possible, with all the commit, autocommit, commit comments and stuff02:42
+perlDreamerwhy what?02:42
@preactionwhy do you need one?02:42
+perlDreamerlet's just say it wasn't my idea and that it has to be built02:43
+perlDreamerfor example02:43
+perlDreamerpurely hypothetically speaking02:43
@preaction... if it goes into core, it needs to go through me02:43
@preactionand there's no way in hell i would ever approve anything like it02:43
+perlDreamerthis wouldn't be core02:43
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@preactionso i fix a problem in the stockdata test, but it also fixes a problem in the collaboration test?05:14
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@preactionone t/run_assets.t test fails :(05:19
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@preactionall t/run_asset.pl tests pass! i win!07:06
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+perlDreamerpreaction: you still awake?07:21
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qwebirc14318hi, i'm doing a "perl testEncironment.pl".... and having problems installing Apache2::Request14:30
qwebirc14318Checking claims its not installed14:33
qwebirc14318when i try to install, it says "Apache2::Request is up to date (2.12)."14:34
* qwebirc14318 afk for 10 mins....14:37
* qwebirc14318 hopes someone read my message in the mean time ;-)14:38
qwebirc14318need more info? or you all dont know ?14:53
qwebirc14318or no one here................................................14:53
Gettysounds strange, but i cant help you on that15:04
Gettyyou need to wait for preaction15:05
qwebirc14318than i will try to put in on the forum......15:07
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CIA-67webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * rbb8753c / (7 files in 3 dirs): Better @INC fiddling and degenerate case for ProgressTree - http://bit.ly/blstWS15:56
CIA-67webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * ra4edea1 / (12 files in 7 dirs): Better integration of Fork into AssetHelpers, fork startup - http://bit.ly/d9q2T915:56
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CIA-67webgui: Paul Driver master * r21ae5f0 / (7 files in 3 dirs): Better @INC fiddling and degenerate case for ProgressTree - http://bit.ly/b2HTJ415:58
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Haargfrodwith, looks like you lost the -I in that patch16:32
@frodwithach, you're right.  Thanks.16:33
SDuensinMorning all.16:42
CIA-67webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * r03c935f / lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm : forkAndExec -I buggo - http://bit.ly/dbNAgv16:42
CIA-67webgui: Paul Driver master * r1de231b / lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm : forkAndExec -I buggo - http://bit.ly/cwBnd616:42
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+perlDreamermorning scrottie18:02
@scrottieheya perlDreamer.18:04
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r5473cb7 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/User.pm): Fix username's in the Edit User screen. Fixes bug # 11950 - http://bit.ly/caSzeQ18:09
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5c40664 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/User.pm): Fix username's in the Edit User screen. Fixes bug # 11950 - http://bit.ly/cp7ZfY18:09
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+perlDreamerbartjol:  you really don't want to edit users18:38
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+bartjolsure I do, make them nicer18:40
+perlDreameris that in the profile tab?18:41
+bartjolwell, the main tav18:41
+bartjolsothe account tab18:42
+bartjoland you are already able to edit the name18:43
+perlDreamerso, out of curiousity, how are you supposed to pronounce Huub?18:43
+bartjolyou just see "0"18:43
+perlDreamerhttp://bit.ly/cp7ZfY <==  that's your fix18:43
+bartjolthe b like a soft "p"18:43
+perlDreamerand uu == oo ?18:43
+bartjolmmm, looks llike an icq invite url18:43
+bartjolnot oo18:44
+bartjolthinking of a word18:44
dreamersgirlBartjol:  Tell him congratulations next time you see him!18:45
+bartjolI will18:46
+perlDreamerdreamersgirl: Fireplace inspection at 9:00am this morning18:47
+bartjolyou don't have words with an "uu" sound18:49
+bartjolno, that is an oo/oe18:49
dreamersgirlis there a German word that has the sound?18:49
+bartjolan u with an umluat18:51
dreamersgirlah, yes. the sound we can't say.  :)18:51
* perlDreamer is bereft of European pronounciation ability18:52
+perlDreamerand I say "takko", too.18:52
+bartjolwe have some more of those18:54
+perlDreameryay, we passed inspection!18:57
+bartjolthe perlDreamer go to http://barbapapa.hyves.nl/widget/48260389/HUUB_HUUB_HUUB_BARBATRUUK/B9qm/ at 2:20 it is said two times in a row19:02
+perlDreamerthat cartoon implies that Huub means hoop in English.  Is that true?19:05
+bartjolhow does it imply that?19:10
+bartjolit is more an abracadabra kind of use19:11
+perlDreamerah, I see19:11
+bartjolnot really meaning anything19:11
+perlDreamerwhen he turns his head into a Lasso, it made me think "Hoop hoop"19:11
@preactionwoot woot!19:12
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@preactionperlDreamer: you near portland? http://twitter.com/theory/status/168583486452940819:24
+perlDreamerI'm here preaction: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1025+Northeast+36th+Avenue,+Hillsboro,+OR&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.178967,84.287109&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=1025+SE+36th+Ave,+Hillsboro,+Washington,+Oregon+97123&t=h&z=1619:25
@preactionoh nice19:26
@preactionthere's a milwaukie?19:26
dreamersgirlThree hour lecture is almost done.  We're all lost.  Not good.19:26
+perlDreamereven the teacher, dreamersgirl?19:26
dreamersgirlIt's a happening place, too.  ;-)19:27
+perlDreamermaybe I need to dust off my statistics books19:27
+perlDreamermilwaukee is getting light rail, too19:27
dreamersgirlthis is musculoskeletal, not research.19:27
dreamersgirltest after test after test19:27
dreamersgirlyou'd like it!19:27
+perlDreamerpreaction: I don't think it's a coincidence that the hackathon is near Madison St, either19:27
@preactionactually because of WI's new governor, we may lose our high-speed rail project19:28
@khennwhy did I think you were closer to the ocean?19:29
dreamersgirlit's closer to the ocean that Madison is?19:29
@khennfor some reason I thought you could walk out the back door of the Kuskie home and spit on a sea lion19:29
@khennI'm not sure you can get much farther away form an ocean than Wisconsin tbh19:30
+perlDreamerkhenn, you can walk out the back door, hop on the light-rail, to go the zoo and spit on a sea lion19:31
+perlDreamerbut they spit back19:31
+perlDreamerotherwise, you're 60 minutes from the ocean beachfront19:31
+perlDreamer75 minutes from skiing19:32
+perlDreamerand 45 minutes from Oregon wine country19:32
@khennnot bad19:32
@khennwe are about 17-18 hours from any ocean19:32
dreamersgirlthat's a long way19:32
@khennthe closest being the sludge in the hudson bay area19:32
@khennwhich I wouldn't consider ocean19:33
@khenntrue ocean is probably a good 20 hrs+19:33
@khennAtlantic City / Jersey shore I guess19:33
@khennof course, when the asteroid hits we have a good chance of surviving the tidal wave19:34
@khennwe'll die of starvation a year or so later19:34
dreamersgirlNot in Wisconsin.  You'll survive on deep fried cheese curd and beer.19:35
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@khennI think I'd rather get hit by the tidal wave than be forced to survive on deep fried cheese =p19:59
+perlDreamerbut there's beer, too!20:02
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@preactionwe really need to have a toggle for user session tracking, especially for visitors. we do too much with it23:32
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r76f32f3 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Don't consider a time zone when given a mysql style date, versus an epochal date. Fixes bug #11946. - http://bit.ly/bHr2ob23:47
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * refdad48 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Don't consider a time zone when given a mysql style date, versus an epochal date. Fixes bug #11946. - http://bit.ly/c3qaJb23:48
+perlDreamerpreaction: are there scaling issues with that table?23:49
@preactionwell, every http request means a write to the userSession table, which is bad23:53
@preactionJT had in-memory sessions that would only flush after 5 minutes or so, which is better23:53
--- Day changed Tue Nov 09 2010
+perlDreamersounds like a DoS attack waiting to happen00:09
+perlDreamerbut probably faster than db writes00:09
@preactionDoS how?00:10
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9e714fa / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix template variable help for Navigation, page.depthDiff. Fixes bug #11952. - http://bit.ly/9lmZcg00:14
@preactioni think i may have a 64-bit WRE compiling on OpenSUSE00:14
@preactioni've made it to the perl modules00:15
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xdangerLazy session creation, as I talked earlier... Only create the session when something is writen to it (POST, setSratch, login)00:16
+perlDreamerwell, if I know that each Visitor takes 50 kB, then if i can create 1000 Visitors in 5 minutes then I can slurp down 50 Mb from your site00:16
+perlDreameron 1 machine, at 1 page fetch per second, that's 300 temporary sessions00:16
+perlDreamerand I'm pretty sure we can do better than 1 page fetch per second00:17
+perlDreamerbut, you could do the same thing with dB writes00:17
+perlDreamerso I'm not sure it makes a difference00:17
+perlDreamerif you have enough users/browsers/bots whatever, you can flood a site and shut it down00:18
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rcb828d6 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix template variable help for Navigation, page.depthDiff. Fixes bug #11952. - http://bit.ly/92Jlrr00:19
xdangeroh, what a depressing day... should go to sleep, but trying to figure something to keep me occupied00:19
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@preactionthe only thing that changes in the WRE from platform to platform is the prereqs directory, correct?03:35
CIA-67wrebuild: Doug Bell master * r247014c / (build.sh getperlmodules.sh getsource.sh): successful compile on opensuse11 x64 (+6 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/d8Oplh04:19
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elninois the read_limit for libapreq still 64M? anyone here know?04:58
elninoHi scrottie@!04:59
elninosure is quiet here tonight.04:59
scrottie0I often miss the good discussion due to a combination of not being a morning person and being in a western timezone.05:00
elninome too.05:02
scrottie0it's probably better that way though.05:02
elninoalright! Time for sleep!05:12
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SDuensinGreetings, Earthlings.16:30
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym19:11
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@preactionso, if i'm changing addRevision so it no longer creates a tag, what all needs to create version tags? just www_addSave and www_editSave correct?20:22
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+perlDreamerpreaction: in the core, I think that's all20:33
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@preactionokay, i first have to add tests for all the stuff in the Test::Class stuff that we don't yet test, like autocommit and such20:35
@preactionand then add tests for addSave, and then proceed, and then... etc...20:35
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@preactionthen i can do currentRevisionId stuff in asset and remove those sleeps everywhere in our test code20:36
@preactionunless you want to do that one?20:36
* perlDreamer is still ripping out Crud20:40
+perlDreamerCrud.t is passing20:40
+perlDreamernow I have to convert all the core classes to use the Moose style definitions20:41
@preactionah, fun20:42
@preactionwe should invest some time into Test::Sweet when we have some spare20:46
@preactionright now i want to have two different addSave tests, one for classes that have a specific type of child, and one for classes that can handle anything20:46
@preactioni suppose i could make a sub that the class could override...20:47
+perlDreamerno, not Test::Sweet20:50
+perlDreamerwe should use RJBS's Moose test suite instead20:50
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+perlDreamerfrom what I've read, Test::Routine works better with prove than Test::Sweet20:51
@preactioneither way, i want test roles20:52
+perlDreamerthat'd be nice20:52
* perlDreamer is tired of copy/pasting test setups20:53
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r897c2e0 / (4 files in 4 dirs): If a user does not have privacy data for a field, check back with the field for the privacy default. Fixes bug #11951. Added ProfileField cleanup code. - http://bit.ly/dmDQTx21:08
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb44be87 / (4 files in 4 dirs): If a user does not have privacy data for a field, check back with the field for the privacy default. Fixes bug #11951. Added ProfileField cleanup code. - http://bit.ly/d85LUY21:08
+perlDreamertime for 15 minutes of test maintenance21:09
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@preactionthat's another problem: we currently don't have a way to release a WRE at all...21:13
@preactionbecause we really should release 0.9.4 with updated deps and 64-bit21:13
@preactionthe WRE build server has been dead for a year at least21:14
+perlDreamerah, right21:14
+perlDreamerwell, maybe we only need to release what people ask for21:14
+perlDreamerCentOS, Debian and ....?21:14
+perlDreamerMacOS X for PB folk21:14
@preactionthe only holdup was OS X 10.6, and we could just not release that one21:14
+perlDreamermmmm, having people developing on an old WRE, or only on source installs has caused problems in the past21:15
Haargwas 10.6 actually a problem, or was it just 10.6 32-bit?21:16
@preactionbut WRE 1.0 is going to be completely different, and will be nearly no different from a source install21:16
@preactioni could not get OpenSSL to play nice with 10.6, but i haven't tried since January so i don't even remember why anymore21:17
+perlDreamerpreaction: we'll have people doing 7.x code for a long time yet21:17
@preactioni know21:17
+perlDreamerso we need to provide a way for y'all to do safe, environmented dev21:17
+perlDreamerand, for better or worse, that's the WRE21:18
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb2a9f4e / t/User.t : Move all User.t test cleanup out of the END block and into WebGUI::Test->addToCleanup. - http://bit.ly/cirR2621:18
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1ff8907 / t/User.t : Move all User.t test cleanup out of the END block and into WebGUI::Test->addToCleanup. - http://bit.ly/coKS2021:18
@preactioni've been non-WRE since January, no problems so far21:18
+perlDreamerI know, but I'm just sayin'21:18
@preactionhmm... apeiron created a VirtualBox::Manage module to find, start, and stop VMs21:22
+perlDreamertime to dive into Pauls' PayPal drivers21:24
+perlDreamersince all PayPal drivers were written by one Paul or another21:24
@preactionwhy? bugs?21:24
+perlDreameryeah, there's some issue with sales taxes not being displayed in the checkout screen21:25
+perlDreamerbut that could be due to my rewrite, too21:25
@preactiondid we decide that if an autocommitted child is added to an uncommitted parent that it needed to join the same version tag as the parent?21:45
@preactionit does that for non auto-committed children21:46
+perlDreameryeah, that's what the code does currently21:47
@preactioni suppose i'm changing how that all works anyway21:48
+perlDreamersounds like it21:49
+perlDreamerhow is it going to work now, in 8?21:49
@preactiononly www_addSave and www_editSave care about tags. if anything is autocommitted, you can prevent it if you have the power by unchecking the Approved box (even if the entire site is autocommit)21:50
+perlDreamerhow does that work through the API?21:50
+perlDreameror for assets like StoryManager, which have collateral assets like the dated sub-folders?21:50
@preactionaddRevision doesn't create a tag. addRevisionToTag will use an existing tag21:51
@preactionall of that will be handled in addSave and editSave, not addRevision and/or processEditForm21:51
* perlDreamer hopes you're writing all this up someplace21:52
@preactionthe docs in the classes, silly21:53
+perlDreamerit was pointed out to me by someone that we usually document what a method does, rather than why it exists, how to use, or how it changes existing stuff21:54
+perlDreamerbut I'll ready your docs before painting with a broad brush stroke21:54
+perlDreamersometime after lunch21:54
+perlDreamerafter PayPal21:54
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+perlDreamerafter taking kids to the orthodontist21:55
+perlDreamerafter making dinner21:55
@preactionhow about after i write them? ;-)21:55
+perlDreamerooh!  even better21:55
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scrottiemornin', andy.22:05
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@preactiondoes Test::Routine use UNIVERSAL::isa as a function, not a method? I'm tired of wading through 10,000 lines of that warning for only 3000 tests...22:12
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Haargi don't think that would matter preaction22:39
@preactionthe autocommit/add to parent's tag thing?22:40
Haarglast time i looked into that, isa was being called as a method but UNIVERSAL::isa was warning anyway22:40
Haargin the past i've just modified that module to entirely remove the warnings22:41
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@preactionalso looks like we're going through with the Dashboard modernizations, yay!00:36
@preactionwhy do only some of the autocommit assets fail the run_asset.t tests?00:49
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@preactionbut i got www_addSave and some refactoring done00:52
CIA-67webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r17c540f / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : add more classy tests (+6 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/ay3Rxg00:52
@preactionso i'll move on to the addRevision and autocommit stuff to see if maybe the way we're doing it is making it evil to test00:52
@preactionand finally the currentRevisionId thing00:52
+perlDreamerif there's a better way to do currentRevisionId in the GalleryAlbum/Photo, it would be good01:18
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Gettyah stupid question, just curious, whats it about WebGUI and clustering? i guess one central DB and all is fine? or is it more complicated?03:18
@preactionwhat do you want to do?03:19
@preactionmysql itself is kinda tricky, but webgui will work fine in a multi-master mysql environment03:19
Gettyclassic situation, several webservers loadbalanced03:19
@preactionprovided spectre only runs on one of them, you'll be fine03:20
Gettyah spectre is the "central"?03:20
Gettyand all webgui communicate with it?03:20
Gettyso if i have 10 webservers, i have one spectre and they all ask him for the data?03:20
Getty(talking about one site, not several sites)03:20
@preactionspectre runs certain things at certain times, spectre was not built to cooperate with other spectres, which is the real problem03:21
@preactionso if two spectres run, the same thing may get run twice03:21
Gettyok ok.. wait... back to standard web usage03:21
Gettylets say i have a site that is too big for 1 server03:21
Gettyso i want to spread it over 2 webservers03:21
@preactionwebsite will work just fine with however many nodes you want to throw at it03:22
Gettyok, and what is the "central point"? the database?03:22
@preactionjust make sure that only one spectre is running03:22
Gettyso they all just use the same database and i'm 100% fine?03:22
@preactionsame things that you'd take a backup of: same uploads directory and same database03:22
Gettyah ok, uploads directory i must also spread03:22
Gettythat is of course not so ideal03:22
@preactionso a NAS or something for the uploads directory, and a mysql multi-master db on another host03:23
Gettynot so cool if the uploads are required to be at "one point"03:23
@preactionyou could do all the reading of uploads from a special node, with the other nodes only writing to that03:23
Gettydont you mean other around?03:24
@preactionthere's also the built-in CDN stuff that can shard the uploads directory if you want03:24
Gettyah never did so much with CDN, but that sounds like an option then03:24
@preactionif you have opinions and/or suggestions on how the cdn stuff can be improved, let me know. i've heard reports of it being less than polished03:29
Gettyi dont know if i reach the point to require it at all in the near time, i just wanted to be inform, cause i develop my webgui based products right now and want to be informed ;)03:29
@preactionbut the cdn stuff should be able to handle simple sync between two network servers. i think there's an rsync recipe for it even03:29
@preactioniirc the idea of it is that anytime a storage location is created or updated, the cdn script gets called. the script can be/do anything you want03:30
Gettysounds productive03:30
Gettyoh other question backup/restore, do i need to take care of uploads/database myself, or does webgui has some special stuff that also take cares of versions and other stuff?03:31
@preactionthe upgrade.pl will autobackup the database. the WRE includes a backup.pl script that handles the whole thing, and if you want i've got a beta script that does local and remote backups with rsync03:32
Gettyok, i will come back to that03:32
@preactionbut really all you need is /data/WebGUI, /data/domains, /data/wre/etc, and the databases with mysqldump03:33
Gettyyeah just thinking of the version change case03:35
Gettyso i got a webgui 7.x and backup it03:35
Gettyand wanna restore it later on a webgui 7.x+1 which actually has some DB layout changes or something03:35
@preactiondepends on how far you're going, but you can usually just add the db to the new server and run upgrade.pl and it will find the db that needs upgrading and do it03:35
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Gettyah cool ok thanks03:37
Gettyi hope you guys like new products based on webgui ;)03:37
@preactionnew products, new community members, new hosts, new contractors, i personally feel that anybody using webgui is helping webgui03:37
Gettyi want to concentrate on idiot proof hosting of webgui03:41
Gettyso that a moron can get his own webgui for his site in minutes03:41
@preactionthen WebGUI 8 is going to be far better for you, as it allows easy overriding of things once not overridable03:42
@preactionand i hope to have Flavors into 8.0.0 as well03:42
Gettywe talked about that already03:42
Gettyi mean you still got some time till i'm productive ready03:42
Gettyif you arent done with 8.0 then i will use 7.x and just offer it later as upgrade03:42
Gettybut best would be if its done when i'm done with the base ;)03:42
Gettyeven tho i must say: what i want most is the modern perl WebGUI (With DBIx::Class !!! we had the theme hehe)03:43
@preactionyou and me both03:45
Gettyhey, if you want help, i'm there03:45
Gettyits just a very huge monster, and i dont want to help on basics03:45
Gettyyou know your product better03:45
Gettybut if you say the base is clear, i'm more then happy to help porting stuff over to modern perl03:46
@preactionwell, first i have to start with the bottom, build some basic crud routines for DBIC03:46
Gettythere is lots of stuff already done, best is if you like with ribasushi on that theme03:46
@preactionbut the Modern WebGUI stuff cannot be used as-is without breaking API promises03:46
Gettyhe is also a good friend of mine and very near to my position03:47
Getty(ribasushi is one of the core developers of DBIx::Class, actually he works on it 24/7)03:47
@preactionright now i'm adding things to the API, breaking APIs so that I can add my new, good stuff alongside the old, busted stuff and deprecate the old ways03:47
Gettyyeah, i'm fresh, no legacy03:47
Gettyso .... i'm free of that ;)03:48
@preactionwe've got a lot of code to maintain, over and above the WebGUI itself03:48
@preactionand people will kill me if i break that code, so we take the slow, stable, enterprise way of doing things03:49
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Gettyi know how i could help i think03:56
Gettyi mean.. dont know how you work03:56
Gettybut if you make a "requirement" list, and stuff that you do with database03:57
Gettyi could go around and make research for you and checkout what possibilities we have with existing CPAN modules and test the features out03:57
Gettyso that i can give you a nice sample package and make your work less stressy03:57
Gettyjust an offer03:57
Gettybtw, you know KinoSearch?03:57
@preactionwell, the way i want to sneak an ORM in is to stop the "Everything is an asset" mentality and start using ORM relationships. Threads have Posts, but Posts are not assets (they don't have their own URLs or entry in the Asset table)03:58
Gettyyeah i already saw the problem03:58
Gettyi just say "redirects" ;)03:58
Getty"why the fuck i can make a redirect as element of a page!"03:58
@preactionbasically, yeah03:59
Gettyyeah redirect is not the best example03:59
Gettybut it shows the base problem of "everything is an asset"04:00
@preactionthough redirects are kinda funny, and urls in webgui are kinda funny, but the problem is to have a URL you must be an asset04:00
@preactionto have an entry in the assetIndex so you are Searchable, you must be an asset04:00
Gettyi must say: its not bad concept, its a very good base04:00
@preactioni may have been looking at kinosearch, this is the pure-perl search system right?04:00
Gettyand its also supported by a company now like your product04:01
@preactionyeah, i do like the Asset system, i just don't like the "everything must be an asset" mentality04:01
Gettyand is in heavy development04:01
Getty(not development state)04:01
Gettyi think its intersting to take a look at it04:01
Gettybut if you dont do it, i will probably just try to make it as module04:02
Gettyso you probably should not care and just give me the options in the modern construct to use it04:02
@preactionindeed, might be a lot easier to make as a dependency instead of using Sphinx as we've been leaning to04:02
@preactioni could add some configuration of a search module to our list, but the API you'd have to implement would be the same as the current one04:03
Gettywhatever it takes ;) you cant scare me away04:03
@preactioni really want to get rid of every asset's individual search, and then replace search entirely with something good04:03
GettySpectre is also a product part of WebGUI, right? its not a dependency you just use, or?04:04
@preactionthe problem is i may not get to it before API freeze, which is really soon04:04
@preactionspectre is part of WebGUI and depends on it (or rather, WebGUI depends on Spectre)04:04
GettyReflex it! in the modern version ;)04:04
@preactionis reflex ready yet?04:05
Gettyi would say yes, even tho i dont use it already (i'm very bound to POE and dont have time right now to learn the new way)04:05
Gettybut dngor is tending people to use it04:05
@preactioni wanted to use it back last December, but it was very new04:06
Gettyhistorical seen it is new but just a new version of POE04:06
Gettysame coder base, its even promoted on #poe channeltopic04:07
Gettyand so i think its something that can be relied on04:07
@preactionyeah, lots has been done since last i saw. i've been thinking about what the next-gen spectre will be04:09
Gettyso now you got it04:09
Gettyi think there are also not really other options04:09
GettyReflex will replace POE04:09
Gettyand so there will be the most amount of coders working on it04:09
GettyAdam bot framework is already ported LOL ;)04:10
Gettyah... good idea... Spectre bot.... that will be one of my first modules ;)04:10
Gettyhaving all spectre of the client servers on an IRC channel04:10
Gettyand watch the activity a bit04:10
Gettyoh oh.. yes04:10
Gettyand XMPP connection04:10
Gettyroar... hot04:11
Gettyoh i also got another wish....04:12
Gettyi dont suggest that you take it into concern from start, but you should have it in mind:04:13
Gettyit would be awesome for the spreading of WebGUI if its also a regular CPAN module and can be installed via some installer script that is delivered with it04:13
@preactionwe're working on that too. haarg's WGDev will become WebGUI::Command, and it will include commands to add/remove sites and other things04:14
Gettycause that makes it more easy for the marketing movement of perl to include WebGUI04:15
Gettyright now its hard to promote something as "part of perl" if its not on CPAN04:15
Gettyi said a sentence at cebit: "if its not on CPAN it doesnt exist"04:15
@preactionright now the problem is of dependencies, we have a huge number of them, and our tests won't run without them04:15
Gettyif i installed MooseX::POE i get around 300-400 dependencies04:16
Gettyand can take a coffee if the system is fresh04:16
@preactionwe also ship YUI04:16
Gettylicense problem for CPAN?04:16
Gettyif, then we just need Alien::YUI04:16
@preactionnot that i'm aware of, it's just a huge number of files that we don't really want to ship anymore04:17
GettyCPAN doesnt care that i can tell ;)04:17
@preactionso we're moving to a CDN by default, with a script to download a local copy04:17
Gettyimportant is that i can use webgui after install via CPAN without any additional network requirement04:17
Gettythe install may require network04:18
Gettybut after the install it must work without04:18
Haargpart of the problem is some of the dependancies can't be gotten from cpan04:18
Gettythat would be the best way for the marketing04:18
Haargand when i say some of i really just mean imagemagick04:18
Gettywhy it cant be gotten from CPAN?04:18
Haargthe imagemagick that exists on cpan pretty much doesn't work04:19
Gettythen lets fix it04:19
Gettyproblem => solution04:19
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0acdcbc / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix display of taxes in several payment confirmation screens. - http://bit.ly/dcxDzF04:20
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb24d3fe / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix display of taxes in several payment confirmation screens. - http://bit.ly/c7Do2D04:21
+perlDreamerGetty, there are other perl solutions that you can't get from CPAN.04:22
Haargi already started working on replacing imagemagick with Imager but it would involve re-writing a bunch of the graph system04:22
+perlDreamerCPAN is awesome, but it's not everything04:22
Gettywhat is missing we can add04:22
+perlDreameryou can't compile many modules without development libraries04:22
+perlDreamerwell, right now you can't add WebGUI04:22
Gettyyeah i know04:22
Gettyi suggested that you didnt put it on CPAN out of evil thinking ;)04:22
Gettyi suggested that there are reasons04:23
Gettybut we can move towards to fix them step by step04:23
Gettyjust wanted to hear that you WANT it on CPAN, and not deny it out of concept04:23
+perlDreamerit would be awesome to have WebGUI on CPAN04:24
Haargimagemagick is the biggest stumbling block at this point04:24
+perlDreamerand to have it run on shared hosting04:24
+perlDreamerand to have President Obama use it04:24
Gettyok thats a word04:24
@preactionshared hosting is a fever dream and i don't care about it04:24
Gettyactually: the last sentence is on the target list04:24
Gettyi want that WebGUI crushs the market of Typo3 and Drupal04:24
@preactionwe have the State Department, which is the best department04:24
Gettyi'm an old php coder, 13 years PHP, did an own framework in it, but since 3 years only perl04:24
Getty(or nearly, just manage some legacy php)04:25
Gettyand i want to crush Typo3, i hate it04:25
Gettybut its market "leader"04:25
Gettyand that doesnt make sense04:25
Gettyits shit04:25
Gettyi already showed WebGUI to a company that is right now mainly using Typo304:25
Gettyand they said: yes thats cool, we want that04:25
Getty(just by using your demo installation)04:25
@preactionif we can beat them with our current state, i can only imagine how things will be when i get done with what i want to get done04:26
+perlDreameryou must be a good salesman04:26
Haargyui, tinymce, and the icon set that was added are another problem.  yui is the easiest to deal with, tinymce can't be fixed yet, icons i don't have a good answer.04:26
@preactionHaarg: bad licensing on the icon set?04:26
Gettyactually i'm a coder, but i'm realistic, so i dont think only like a coder, i think also like a "user"04:26
Haargthe number of files04:26
GettyCPAN doesnt care about files amount?04:26
+perlDreamerhow about if tar them up, and untar on install?04:26
GettyYUI and TinyMCE can get Alien:: packages04:27
Gettyshare/ directory04:27
Gettyspecial files goes into share/ and u use ShareDir ;)04:27
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Haargyes, that is how it would be done.  but when you have 1000s of files it is problematic to deal with.04:27
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GettyHaarg: haha.... chicken! ;)04:27
GettyHaarg: i will try to help on that very massive, i love to make CPAN modules04:28
Gettyand since i use Dist::Zilla.............. oh man.... i can produce them in minutes04:28
GettyDist::Zilla is the best shit since the best shit since the best shit since sliced bread04:29
Haargpreaction, what would you think of pulling tinymce out of core and making the rich editor plugable?04:29
@preactionHaarg: i would enjoy it very much04:29
Haarghave the default editor use YUI's since that provides enough for most people04:29
Gettyi think04:30
@preactionas i would LOVE a Markdown editor to use in the Wiki04:30
Gettywe have a perl Rich Text editor04:30
Haargbecause tinymce can't be put on a cdn04:30
GettyHaarg: can you make a list of stuff that you cant get from CPAN and put it on some wiki page i can also edit?04:31
Haargit's really only imagemagick04:31
Gettyso if i solve that for you, we will get good friends? ;)04:31
Haargyui tinymce and icons are a different problem and need core work04:31
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+perlDreamerpreaction: do you have any pending commits for 7.9?05:01
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r3891d66 / (26 files in 11 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.18 release. - http://bit.ly/bdVD4c05:52
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+perlDreamerhm, demo site usage is up06:46
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0e491d6 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.19 bug-fixing. - http://bit.ly/9XEd6507:04
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--- Log closed Wed Nov 10 07:15:53 2010
--- Log opened Wed Nov 10 07:37:13 2010
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SDuensinThat it is.16:48
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+perlDreamerpreaction: why isn't findBrokenAssets a Workflow Activity?17:23
+perlDreamerand Admin Console plugin?17:23
+perlDreamerit's a great commandline tool for admins, but it's a more powerful tool in the hands of users.17:27
+bartjolmmm, that great script (with the option --fix) says my asset is fixed in the output (after which the script breaks)17:54
+bartjolstill has a none-existing paernt17:54
+bartjoland apparently the script doesn't recognise it's broken state17:54
+bartjolthe script seems to actually move it to the import node17:58
+bartjoleeeh, it should do that I mean17:58
+perlDreamerbartjol, I don't know if it checks for non-existant parent18:10
+perlDreamerbut we can make it do that18:10
+bartjolMartin said it might have to do with the state of the asset18:11
+bartjolI removed it manually now18:11
+bartjolnot the best-practise solution18:11
+bartjolbut it works18:11
+bartjolannd there is a cgheck:18:11
+bartjol# Make sure we have a valid parent18:11
+bartjol            unless ( WebGUI::Asset->newByDynamicClass( $session, $row{parentId} ) ) {18:11
+bartjoleeh, diff between this and what18:12
+perlDreamerif you send me a diff of the script, I'll add it in to the core18:13
+perlDreamerdiff it against the git repo18:13
+bartjolI didn't make any changes yet18:13
+bartjolmaybe I can try and make it, depends on the action we want18:14
+bartjolif the asset canīt be instantiated, it should try to fix it18:15
+bartjoldo nothing and give a notification18:16
+bartjoland apparently my asset wasn good:18:18
+bartjol/data/WebGUI/sbin# perl findBrokenAssets.pl --configFile=www.kojaki.nl.conf --fix18:18
+bartjol-- Corrupt: cp9EoYTkiFylo5M3TqdsOA                                  Fixed.18:18
+bartjolCan't call method "setParent" on an undefined value at findBrokenAssets.pl line 101.18:18
+bartjoloh yeah, this is what the pastebin is for18:18
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elninoHello! Is there ANYONE here willing to provide webgui hosting for a non-profit for around $10?18:21
elninoit's a small site, small bandwith.18:22
+perlDreamerif the asset has a broken parent, move it to the mediaNode18:22
elninono support needed. And I have the files for the site.18:23
+bartjolit says that yeah18:23
+bartjolsorry, elnino18:23
+perlDreamerelnino, I'm not a hoster, so I'm sorry too18:24
+bartjolwell we are, but I can offer it for $1018:24
+bartjolonly on my test host, which I do use as a test host, and that feels like going over Koen? back18:25
+bartjolso not offering that either (besides from the frequent outs, that you?l suffer)18:26
elninoThanks bartjol. We're talking 200 visitors a month.18:28
elninoand proabably most of that is me and my client.18:28
@preactionelnino: pb has a $20/mo unsupported18:29
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf826cb8 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Handle assets that can't be instanciated in ExtendCalendarRecurrences. Fixes bug #11956. - http://bit.ly/b3YlcP18:35
+bartjolbut, perlDreamer should I report that as a bug?18:39
+perlDreamerbartjol: yes18:39
elninopreaction - yep, I know. But he is so small, he just can't afford that.18:39
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rce7a739 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Handle assets that can't be instanciated in ExtendCalendarRecurrences. Fixes bug #11956. - http://bit.ly/cDCDUN18:46
elninoquestion.. client moved all her stuff to a new server. and also upgraded from 7.7.28 to 7.9.16. I never set APREQ2_ReadLimit in any of her modperl files, and was able to upload 50M files up.18:49
elninoon the new server we are being limited to about 25M. I believe.18:49
Gettydo i get prize for bring new perl dudes in here? ;)18:49
elninowas that variable redefined in the apache conf or mod_perl somewhere, so the defaultlimit was lowered?18:49
elninoin the wre package?18:50
+perlDreamerelnino, iirc, the default limit is 25M18:52
+perlDreamerso you'll have to reset it the modperl.conf file18:52
elninowas that lowered?18:52
+perlDreamershe used the WRE in both cases?18:53
@preactionGetty: if they're using Webgui, yes indeed18:54
+perlDreamerand you're sure that the WebGUI setting for max file size didn't change?18:54
elninowell, on the old server we did. The new server, I'm not possitive because someone else setup the server. I'm really HOPEING they did.18:54
elninoin the admin->settings? or is there a new variable in the conf files?18:54
* preaction can't wait until we throw mod_perl off to never-never land18:54
+perlDreamerAdmin settings18:54
Gettypreaction: i try to make a bit promo for it, its good that you tend to go modern perl, thats always a good argument18:54
elninoadmin settings yes, we made it rediculusly high. Unless webgui doesn't like that and made it small on us.18:55
Gettybtw, can someone point me to some information about payment support in webgui? i saw you have it, but want to checkout what i can do with it and what layer is offered there and so on18:55
@preactionyeah, the main reason i have never talked about WebGUI at a YAPC is that I find myself apologizing about things too much, i want to not have to do that anymore18:55
Gettypreaction: HAHAHA18:55
Gettypreaction: i must say, i feel a bit ashamed that i didnt promoted it on cebit18:55
Gettypreaction: i didnt know much about it at this time, and cause it wasnt on CPAN "it doesnt existed" for me18:56
+perlDreamerGetty: we support ITransact, PayPal and Ogone for payment support18:56
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Gettymh ITransact and Ogone i dont even know18:56
+perlDreamerITransact handles recurring transactions, and I belive that Ogone does, too18:56
@preactionITransact is rebranded under multiple names, iirc18:56
Gettyi must think of german market a bit more intense18:56
@preactionOgone is a european payment gateway18:56
+perlDreamerRecurring transactions for PayPal are supposed to be available in 7.10, if MrHairgrease has time18:56
Gettyis there a standard layer for payment systems?18:56
Gettyso that i can extend it for more payment concepts?18:56
@preactionyes, you can write your own paydriver18:57
Gettyah cool18:57
@preactionwe have an Authorize.net one that hasn't been added to core18:57
@preactionalso there's Business::Payment, if you write a PayDriver that uses Business::Payment, you'd have a lot of paydrivers18:58
@preactioner. Business::OnlinePayment18:58
Gettyah ok :)18:58
Gettysounds like a good TODO18:58
Gettyi must see18:58
Gettythe problem is german market about online payment is 100% fucked up18:58
Gettydo you know any german company working with WebGUI? or german dudes who work commercially with it?18:59
@preactionthere were a couple people, there's that german forum on webgui.org19:00
Gettyah ok19:00
Gettyforum.... baeh ;)19:00
+perlDreamerwhoa, all of a sudden it's Jan 5, 2011!19:00
elninoperldreamer.. just to confirm, you mean the sitename.modperl.conf file right? or are we supposed to set APREQ2_ReadLimit in thel modperl.conf file?19:01
+perlDreamerelnino: according to this wiki page, it's sitename.modperl.conf http://www.webgui.org/wiki/server-won-t-upload-big-files19:02
elninoI wrote that.. =)19:03
elninoI may be leading my self down the wrong path.  19:03
elninoI think I got the inital info from threads.19:03
elninoon the forum.19:03
elninoI'll try the actual modperl.conf19:04
+perlDreamermaybe the wiki page needs to be updated19:05
elninodefinately if I'm wrong. Its just throwing me off that the two servers are behainv differently, when the ReadLimit variable wasn't defined in either.19:05
+bartjoleee, I don believe site configs for modperl have .conf at the end of the filename19:13
+bartjolin wre19:14
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jigouElnino: I've got that value configured in my actual modperl.conf file, set at 125M. THEN update the setting in the site settings also.19:36
+perlDreamerYou know you've been writing perl too long when....19:50
+perlDreamer... you end sentences with ; instead of '.'19:50
+perlDreamerpreaction: you win!19:53
@preactionyay! what do i win!19:53
+perlDreamerThe award for smallest object module19:54
+perlDreamerit doesn't have any methods at all19:54
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+perlDreamerThe conversion to Moose may make it even smaller19:56
+perlDreamerI win the award for 2nd smallest module19:59
+perlDreamer1 method19:59
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+perlDreamerpreaction: I'm running tidy on some these ex C::IO modules, and it seems pretty good so far20:25
@preactioni've got addRevision deborked, running the whole test suite now. run_asset.t is still borked for some autocommit assets but not others20:26
+perlDreamerthere's a lot of evil autocommit hackery in some Assets20:27
+perlDreamerand addRevision20:27
+perlDreamerthe Gallery is the worst offender, iirc20:27
@preactionyeah, bur run_asset.t was running the same failures before and after my changes, the rest of the suite is failing hard though20:28
@preactionbecause it all assumes that tags need to be committed, but if you don't make the asset pending, it'll never be committed20:29
@preactionhmm... commit does things...20:29
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+perlDreamerwho knows that evil that lies in the hearts of commit?20:33
@preactioni suppose i should default status to 'approved' instead of blank20:35
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elninoThank you jigou!!21:18
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+perlDreamerpreaction: finally got to the point of running the top level test suite for the Crud_removal branch21:24
+perlDreamerif it passes, it's done21:24
+perlDreamerif it doesn't, well, we don't think about things like that21:24
@preactioni'm listening to Frank's talk on Scrumm, which is really interesting21:25
+perlDreamerI wouldn't mind doing that on 821:26
@preactionthinking about how to write an app to do the scrummaster stuff for me21:26
+perlDreamerhaving daily talks about a project helps keep me focused21:26
@preactionit might be nice if we both keep together as a team too, spend tuesday and only tuesday on 7, ending with the release, and the rest of the time on 821:27
@preactionso two of us on tuesday instead of one of us on monday/tuesday21:27
+perlDreamerwhat would you want me to do on Monday?21:28
elninojigou... Did you just add APREQ2_ReadLimit 1024M anywhere? or do I have to encapsulate it with some If statement?21:35
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jigouelnino: no "if" statement required. Give me a sec and I'll grab the whole chunk....21:43
elninoI would think it would work in both the modperl.conf and the sitename.modperl.conf, since modperl includes all the sitename.modperl.conf files. But I don't know much about all this.21:45
jigouelnino: http://webgui.pastebin.com/0CWNEZ6V  - lines 26-29 are how I've got it listed in my conf file. I included the rest to show that it's loading the mod_apreq2.so module21:49
elninooh. I don't have mod_apreq2 being loaded anywhere, could that be my problem with my code and faulty wiki I wrote? =)21:51
elninoopps. sorry, it's there.21:51
@preactionhas to be there or webgui would't work ;)21:52
elninok I'm trying this all again on my serves. Thanks!21:53
+perlDreamerback up, locate wall, run forward again21:58
+perlDreamertime for a lunch break21:58
@preactiondown to 60 open tickets for 821:59
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@preactioni just broke nearly all of webgui! yay!22:09
@preactionconsensus: Can I get rid of the Style Wizard?22:27
@preactionalso, would $session->tag work better than WebGUI::VersionTag->getWorking( $session );?22:29
@tavistoSoftlayer just merged with The Planet22:30
@preactionyeah, that explained all their fuckups recently22:30
elninopreaction  - I would be slightly sad to see the stylewizard go, but I understand why, and wouldn't hold it against you. =)22:34
@preactionyou use it? it creates style templates i wouldn't wish on my worst enemies22:34
jigoulol @ preaction22:34
elninoIt's a starting code for me.22:35
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@preactionokay, but we have 6 of them in there now, and i want at least 6 more22:37
elninooh.  I just use the very very basic one. I have a lady that just like to create the banners using xheader and then I pick colors via the style wizard and I'm done. But again I'm talking about 7.7.x22:39
@preactionah, you should think about upgrading22:39
elninolol.  yes yes.22:42
@preactionconsensus: Locked By sucks in how it works. Would it be better to have a "Locked For Group: <groupId>" that would restrict editing until someone in that group unlocked it?22:56
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elninopreaction - we don't use groups much, my users are too small. we're all in the content managers.22:59
@preactionin that case, locked by doesn't work at all. your content managers can join the tag and commit it, or work on it in that tag22:59
elninoI think it would be more helpful for it to tell us which version tag is locking it.22:59
@preactionit's like that for most things. locking only makes someone have to click more to lock something22:59
@preactionthat's different, that's an actual edit lock, and it's important23:00
@preactionthe "Lock" menu item just establishes an edit lock23:00
@preactioncreates a version tag23:00
elninooh then I don't know what youre referring to.23:00
@preactionbut does not prevent anyone from actually editing the asset23:00
elninoare you referring to when a person doesn't have sufficent permissiosn to edit something?23:01
@preactionno, i mean when they DO have permissions, but the asset should still not be edited23:02
@preactionsomething important, for example23:02
elninooh. I don't come across that situation, or use that feature. 23:03
@preactioni'm betting most people don't, since it doesn't really do anything different that editing the asset normally doesn't do23:03
@preactionin fact, i'm pretty sure it's broken for any site that has autocommit turned on23:03
elninobut i see it in the menu! =)23:03
@preactionperlDreamer: why does importAssetData make a special case if the passed-in properties contains status => "pending", shouldn't the revision being created always be pending?23:06
@preactioni'm asking because you're to git blame for it23:06
+perlDreamerpreaction, I don't remember.  Does the git commit contain a comment, changelog notice or test?23:11
@preactionsays what the comment above says23:12
@preactionsomeone also just updated PerlMagick in CPAN23:13
+perlDreamersee bug #968623:14
+perlDreamerImporting a package twice locks assets forever.23:14
+perlDreamerif the asset is not pending, but the package is, then there's no tag attached to it, and it can't ever be committed?23:14
+perlDreamerbasically, exporting  pending asset is bad, and this is a workaround23:15
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+perlDreamerbut that's all reverse engineering what I'm seeing there23:15
@preactionso yes, the problem is that importPackage should force "pending", as we are doing a revision23:16
@preactioni guess i'll try to explain the new Version Tag and you stop me if anything sounds horrible:23:17
* perlDreamer has to go to pick up kids23:17
+perlDreamerbut I'll backlog23:17
@preactiona www_ method or a user script creates a VersionTag. The version tag is then setWorking, which makes it the current context for other methods to use to add revisions23:18
@preactionother methods can then either use or ignore that context, or if they really feel it necessary, create their own context23:23
@preactionthe end being that nobody is forced into any version tag at all, making shuffling around tags simple23:23
@preactionright now i'm just making the tests pass by adding the missing bits, but then i'm gonna go around and refactor all the ugliness23:24
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elninosoo.  if my client has a gmail account. Can I setup the smtp server unders settings to smtp.gmail.com and it'll work? that doesn't seem right. 00:04
@preactiongmail probably requires authentication00:05
elninoyes, and I just saw the rfe 00:05
@preactionbut you could set up sendmail to auth to the gmail server as it's forwarding00:05
+perlDreamerpreaction, lots of methods depended on addRevision making a tag for them00:05
+perlDreamerhow does it work now?00:05
@preactionperlDreamer: addRevision does not make a tag for them, there wasn't many in the core, but there are a lot in the tests00:06
@preactionthere will be an addRevisionToTag( $tag, props ) method created to continue the trend of adding convenience APIs over simple ones00:06
@preactionstill trying to figure out if I want $session->tag to create a new tag if there is none already, like getWorking does, or require that you pass in the tag if you want to create one00:07
@preactioni suppose it could be my $tag = $session->tag || $session->tag( properties for new tag );00:07
+perlDreamerwhat about, $session-hasTag to see if one is currently active?00:10
+perlDreamerpreaction, two things00:15
+perlDreamer1) we should probably do this over audio, since I'm still not getting it00:15
+perlDreamer2) It would probably help to walk through several use cases00:15
+perlDreamerlike, standard Asset add, autocommitted asset add, adding an asset to a parent that's pending, etc.00:15
elninothanks preaction. bye00:15
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@preactionperlDreamer: i'm not done with everything, but I can push what I have. it breaks all the tests, but it should work00:28
+perlDreameruh, don't break tests00:28
+perlDreamerthen I won't be able to tell what breaks when I try to merge Crud00:29
+perlDreamerI just have no idea how the changes to the API are supposed to work00:29
@preactioni'll provide some examples, as there will now be an autocommitted role, not all assets will have getAutocommitWorkflowId00:30
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+perlDreamerpreaction: do you think it's a problem if our accessors return unsafe references?01:17
+perlDreameronce that is resolved, I'm one test file away from Cruddiness in the core01:19
+perlDreamerfoosball break01:56
+perlDreamerpreaction, if you have time, we could use a 4th01:56
@preactionperlDreamer: i think it'll be fine if they return unsafe refs provided it's told in the docs01:58
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+perlDreameryeah, I agree02:16
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+perlDreamerdinner time02:46
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+perlDreamerpreaction, there's something wrong with the Crud property metaclass, but it's easy to work around03:51
+perlDreamerI plan on merging in tomorrow, if I can figure out what's up03:51
+perlDreamerthen, my master, you may assign me something else03:51
+perlDreamertogether we shall rule the world, as father and son!03:51
+perlDreamerwell, except that I'm older than you, and not wearing a mechanical breather03:52
+perlDreamerand neither of us can use the Force03:52
@preactionwell, we do need a new demo system03:52
@preactionWebGUI::Demo and demo.psgi03:53
@preactioni'd like it to save a cookie so that it remembers what my demo site is and doesn't force me to remember03:53
Haargwith WebGUI as a CPAN module, how should i handle etc ?03:53
+perlDreamerbut what if it expires?03:53
@preactionperlDreamer: then it presents to me the form to create a new demo site03:54
@preactioni also want it to accept multiple config/database sets03:54
@preactionand let me choose03:54
+perlDreamerwouldn't it be better to do more core work?03:54
+perlDreamerthere are templates to convert03:54
+perlDreamerand all sorts of other stuff03:54
@preactionif you want, sure. up to you03:54
@preactionbut when we get a demo system going, we can have the General Public giving us bug reports03:55
@preactionso yes, perhaps we should wait until we're ready for bug reports03:55
@preactionHaarg: i don't know, perhaps #perl knows about precedent?03:56
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Haargusually it seems to be /etc/blah or where when creating a site you would specify a location03:57
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym19:13
+perlDreamerand ponders the plight of Moosie Crud19:13
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+perlDreamerpreaction: will you be around in an hour or so?23:32
+perlDreamerI may have need of your advanced debugging and hacking skills, yet again23:33
+perlDreamerI figured it out23:48
+perlDreamerIt's Test::Deep::NoTest23:48
+perlDreamerit exports a set method23:48
+perlDreamerwhich is breaking WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Survey::Test23:49
+perlDreamersince WebGUI::Definition::Role::Object also has a set method23:58
+perlDreamerpreaction, Haarg, I'd like to replace Test::Deep::NoTest with Data::Compare or some similar module that doesn't pollute namespaces23:59
+perlDreamerobjections or alternate modules?23:59
@preactionperhaps use Test::Deep::NoTest qw()?23:59
@preactionor Storable nfreeze?23:59
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+perlDreamerIt exports everything00:00
+perlDreamerI'll try it, but we'll see00:00
+perlDreamertime to test, merge and retest!00:02
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+perlDreamertests pass, time to merge00:23
+perlDreamerthat's never happened before00:23
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7dc51b6 / (25 files in 20 dirs): Merge branch 'Crud' into WebGUI8 (+22 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/9m9O5100:24
+perlDreamercompletely clean merge00:24
+perlDreamerpreaction: are all tests passing for you currently?00:24
@preactionno, because i broke them a lot00:24
@preactionbut i DID fix the other tests00:24
@preactionbefore i went and broke them again00:25
+perlDreamerhm, you'll have to let me know if what I see is any different from what you're seeing then00:25
+perlDreamerdid you merge in this new code?00:25
@preactionno, i didn't want to screw you up00:25
@preactionbut we can talk about the new addRevision/VersionTag stuff if you want00:25
+perlDreamergive me a few minutes, then I'm good00:27
@preactionapparently i screwed something real bad, wgd tries to clear out the example assets and then hangs forever, unkillable00:28
@preactionor just weirdly hung00:29
+perlDreameralright,  I'm back00:35
@preactionso did you still want to skype about it? or should i just give some examples on how the new stuff works?00:36
+perlDreamerlet's try some example, and I'll only suck down your time if I need it00:36
+perlDreamerso, for example, adding a new asset00:36
@preactionso if you don't care about tagging or committing, say you're building an install script, all you need now is addChild( { props} ) or addRevision( { props } ). the new asset/revision is automatically the most recent00:37
@preactionif you have an existing tag, you (currently) pass in the tagId and status => "pending" as properties00:38
@preactionand then you setVersionLock00:38
@preactionthose are the two options. with and without tags00:38
@preactionnow, the www_editSave method adds more to that00:38
+perlDreamerwhat if I care about tagging and committing?00:38
+perlDreamerlike in almost every test in the whole suite :)00:39
@preactionthat's the second option. you give addChild or addRevision a tagId and a status => "pending"00:39
@preactioni'm currrently rewriting the test suite to do exactly that00:39
@preactiononce i'm done, i'll finally have done enough to know how I want addRevisionToTag to work00:39
@preaction(the layer that does the same stuff for you)00:40
@preactionso right now, addRevision does only one thing: it adds a revision with the data you tell it to00:40
+perlDreamerso, before, revisions and tags were tied together.  Now they're not?00:40
+perlDreameryou can have an untagged revision?00:40
@preactionyou can have an untagged revision00:40
+perlDreameris this something that we'll expose through the API to the user?00:41
@preactionhow do you mean?00:41
+perlDreamerwill the user be able to make untagged revisions?00:41
@preactionto the user, there will still always be a tag, for now, because no tags would break expectations00:41
@preactioni haven't gotten to that part yet, right now www_editSave and www_addSave have the bulk of the code I removed from addRevision()00:42
@preactionin the future, it may be that any asset that is autocommitted just by itself has no tag, but that may wreak havoc on any child assets added to that asset00:43
@preactionbecause in the future, approval will work on revisions, not on tags00:43
@preactionwe're de-emphasizing tags for everything. tags will be used to group revisions for staging prior to commit, that's it00:44
+perlDreamerit almost sounds like a revision is something made by 1 person, where a tag can be shared among many CM's00:44
@preactiona tag is becoming a bad name for it, Bricolage calls them Desks i believe, but Stages would be a better name00:45
+perlDreameryeah, that's because Bricolage is built around a publishing industry model.00:45
+perlDreamerso, for the first stage of this project, it's just possible to have tagless revisions.  It's not actually used anywhere.00:47
@preactioneven the upgrade system will create a tag, like it already does00:47
@preactionpackages will still use tags00:48
@preactioncut and copy and paste still use them00:48
@preactionbut like the rest of the stuff we're doing, we're just making simpler things possible00:48
@preactionnow, the code to actually work with revisions and put them in tags is a little more verbose, but it's explicit rather than implicit00:49
+perlDreamerwell, if addRev doesn't make one anymore, it would have to be00:49
@preactionso after i get the tests passing, i'm gonna go back and write new convenience APIs for addRevisionToTag( tag, props ), addChildToTag( tag, props )00:49
@preactionand those methods will also help us with the cloneFromDb problem that tags have, the tag will keep the instance of the asset around00:49
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdb51217 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Fix double my syntax warning in Asset.pm - http://bit.ly/cgL6A800:50
+perlDreamerhm, so if two people are working on the same tag00:51
+perlDreamerand one changes an asset, his tag gets updated with the new asset00:51
+perlDreamerwhat about the other guy?00:51
+perlDreamerI guess on the next page fetch it will be fine00:51
+perlDreamersince the tag gets rebuilt00:51
+perlDreamerbut, if these things are cached in memory anywhere, bad things will happen00:51
@preactioni was thinking more for the use-case that the tests have: create a bunch of assets, commit the tag, then refetch from the database00:52
+perlDreamerso now we build assets in a tag, commit the tag, and refetch from the tag?00:52
@preactionthey won't be cached in memory, this would be more for when the tag and revisions are created and committed in the same request00:52
@preactionso maybe that one's a little off-the-mark00:53
+perlDreamerokay, it was starting to sound like address/address book caching, which was really bad00:53
@preactioneh, it's just in SQLAlchemy (python ORM) i can do exactly that, but i think that's because yeah, you technicaly get all the rows from the Session (which doubles as transaction handler)00:55
@preactionso when we move assets to an ORM, the ORM would handle the versioning/tagging, and then there'd be peace and no cloneFromDb needed00:55
+perlDreamerI'm not sure I believe that00:56
+perlDreamerobjects will always need to be updated00:56
+perlDreamerunless we have singleton objects00:56
@preactionyou'd ask the ORM "hey, get me this object" the ORM would look and say "oh, we have one of these already, with changes, so here."00:57
@preactionor you'd ask "get me all objects matching these params", ORM says "hey, this ID looks familiar... why not take this one we have already?"00:57
+perlDreamerso code-wise, I make a tag, make assets and add them to the tag, then commit the tag, and get updated copies from the tag00:57
@preactionwell no, right now you cloneFromDb like normal00:58
+perlDreamerand the path where a tag can be skipped is possible, but not recommended now01:00
@preactionpossible and recommended, just not done for any user interactions to prevent confusion01:00
+perlDreamercan we create content that cannot be rolled back, since that whole interface currently only looks at tags?01:01
@preactionindividual asset revisions have always been deletable01:01
+perlDreamersidebar: current test run with merged Crud http://gist.github.com/67338901:02
@preactionCopyBranch.t and ExportHtml.t shouldn't be failing01:04
+perlDreamerokay, I'll look into those before calling this phase done01:04
+perlDreameryou're right, individual revisions have always been deletable, it's just that we've been pushing people toward manageRevisionsInTag, manageCommittedTags, etc.01:06
@preactionwe have?01:07
+perlDreameryeah.  The only way to get to the revisions for an asset is to edit the asset01:07
+perlDreamerand use the link on the right to see the other revisions01:07
+perlDreamerVersion Tags is right in the Admin Console01:08
+perlDreamerit's more prominent01:08
@preactionnot in the new admin console01:08
+perlDreamerah, okay01:08
+perlDreamerI'm guessing for most assets, the change in the API is seamless.01:10
+perlDreamerhow much work is it to rework something with AutoCommit?01:10
+perlDreamerExportHtml is most likely failing due to a leaky test01:12
@preactionautocommit assets don't need tags anymore, at all01:13
+perlDreamernot even for approval?01:13
@preactionnope, not with the new approval stuff when that's ready01:13
+perlDreamerso we'll be able to approve revisions, or tags?01:13
@preactionactually, revisions, not tags01:14
+perlDreamerso we'll just have to rewrite the Workflow Activities that use tags, to handle revisions instead01:14
@preactionsomewhat. haven't gotten that far yet01:15
+perlDreamerokay, is the branch somewhere where it can be looked at?01:16
@preactioni can put it up in my fork01:16
+perlDreamercool, that way I can make intelligent comments when you ask questions :)01:17
+perlDreamerpreaction, have you pulled recently into WebGUI8?  If not, please don't.01:20
+perlDreamerCopyChildren shouldn't work01:21
@preactionand i can't push to my origin apparently01:21
+perlDreamerCopyBranch sends this URL: /?op=assetHelper;className=WebGUI::AssetHelper::CopyBranch;method=copy;with=children;01:21
+perlDreamerand CopyBranch has this check: childrenOnly => $session->form->get('with') eq 'Children',01:22
+perlDreamerso it can't be passing01:22
@preactionwas passing for me01:22
@preactionweird. shouldn't be capitalized like that01:22
+perlDreamerthis happened during the merge of WebGUI 7.10.4 in01:23
+perlDreamerso it's due to Fork01:23
@preactioni knew we should've went with spoons01:23
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8186eba / lib/WebGUI/AssetHelper/CopyBranch.pm : form param "with" should be all lower case. - http://bit.ly/duiYEB01:25
@preactionfor some reason the tests are really intense now01:25
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+perlDreamerpreaction: which Middleware sucks up the log warnings?02:10
@preactionusing WebGUI::Test::Mechanize?02:10
+perlDreamerand I want my log output logged02:10
@preactionlook inside it, it does it itself02:10
+perlDreamerERROR: Problems talking to master daemon process.  Please restart the web server.02:11
+perlDreamerfrodwith: poke02:12
Gettyhmpf... there is a news in germany about some dolphin using ipad vs. toughbook, yes the news sounds fascinating BUT IS IT SO HARD TO DELIVER A VIDEO?!?!?!?02:37
Gettyand i cant find anything on the net.... no really we are in a time where every shit is recorded, but this really really fascinating stuff isnt..... <headshaking>02:40
@preactionwould it be overkill to have a netbook and a laptop next to me at the same time?02:41
Getty....... now i'm even more pissed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmiPDMt-ZTc02:41
@preactionperlDreamer: are the webgui tests more resource-hogging to you recently?02:42
+perlDreamerthey run longer, but that's to be expected with run_*02:42
@preactionthey used to get done in like 15 minutes, now it's been over an hour02:42
+perlDreameran hour?02:42
@preactionrun_* not enabled02:42
+perlDreamerthat's too long02:42
@preactionmaybe it's just because there are a lot of failures?02:42
+perlDreamerFiles=357, Tests=17897, 1177 wallclock secs02:42
+perlDreamerjust shy of 20 minutes02:43
+perlDreamerand that's with DEBUG enabled, too02:43
@preactioni'm just gonna keep it going to see how long it takes02:43
+perlDreameryou could try tailing the prove output, and see if it's in a loop02:43
@preactioni think i left it on overnight, a test had hung for the entire time02:43
* perlDreamer has had that happen before02:43
@preactionno, it's still going for now, i haven't reached the recurring calendar workflow one yet02:44
@preactiondo you think people will dislike me if i trim down the default assets? like gallery having only one view instead of three? and calendar only having three instead of 5?02:45
@preactiongallery albums don't need "Default", "Thumbnails", and "Slideshow", they only need a "Show All" feature and javascript02:46
@preactionalso, usually my computer is not completely unresponsive while running the tests, this is unusable now...02:46
+perlDreamerI've never had that problem before02:48
+perlDreamerI think you're looping02:48
+perlDreamercalendar has 5 views?02:48
+perlDreamermonth, week, list day and...?02:48
@preactionoh, right, last tab is search02:49
@preactionit's just, when you have a Calendar, depending on the number of events, you either want to see the Week view, the Month view, or a List. Day is useless02:50
@preactionbut if you get down to it, it's just "Dated" and "List" view02:50
@preactionoh, and those print ones have to go02:51
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+perlDreamerdial back that code knife dude, we need to finish stuff up on the boards first02:51
+perlDreamermaybe we need to setup a survey to see what people think?02:51
@preactioni know, i'm just imaginating02:51
* perlDreamer envisions preaction putting on his MLK hat02:52
+perlDreamer"I have a dream"02:52
@preactiongallery i know i can get rid of the extra views. calendar might be more difficult02:52
+perlDreamerit's not really Gallery, it's Gallery Album that has all the views02:54
+perlDreameryou may kill those with impunity02:54
@preactionand then we might as well allow albums of albums, but then all we have is folders, no?02:54
@preactionoh, and merge Image and Photo too, and make Gallery work with any File type02:55
+perlDreamerI s'pose02:55
+perlDreamerbut recursing up the folders to find the Gallery, which holds all the configurations, might not be very fun02:56
@preaction$gallery = $self->getLineage(['ancestors],{className => 'WebGUI::Asset::wobject::GalleryAlbum'});02:56
+perlDreameris that the lowest one, or the highest one?02:57
@preactionit can't be under two02:57
+perlDreameryou wouldn't think that a meatball sub would translate well to burrito form, but you'd be wrong03:48
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elninoI'm getting a Couldn't call method process on asset for url: contact_us.php Root cause: Can't locate object method "create" via package "WebGUI::Mail::Send" at /home/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataForm.pm line 1074.06:56
elninowhy would that be? create does exist06:57
elninoand I tried sending email via the group manager and same thing.06:57
elninov 7.7.3306:58
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elninonever mind. nite07:13
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SDuensinFriday!  For real this time!16:36
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Gettyand made more people aware of WebGUI, pushed them to test the demo17:29
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+perlDreamerare we having fun yet?19:12
+perlDreamerpreaction, should I work on debugging those two failing tests, or pick up a new project?19:13
+bartjolfun? well, it is weekend19:15
+perlDreameronly in The Netherlands19:16
+perlDreamerhere it is still Friday19:16
+bartjoland Russia19:16
+bartjoland most things east of us19:16
@preactionperlDreamer: new project, just keep moving19:17
+bartjolhave a nice weekend19:18
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CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rcfb53ff / lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm : Handle exceptions thrown when rolling back a version tag. - http://bit.ly/axj5hY19:21
CIA-67webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra1571b9 / t/Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutLowStock.t : Explicit class for addToCleanup, otherwise the debugger fails. - http://bit.ly/9GZMMZ19:21
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+perlDreamerokay, I'll start working on the undotting19:24
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neilRe. ticket - Strange spectre problem  (#11444), http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11444 - where is Operation/Cron?19:45
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Haargit looks like that caused other problems though so i wouldn't trust it19:49
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+perlDreamernot to disagree with the honored hacker from Wisconsin, but the fix works19:53
+perlDreamerit doesn't delete your cron jobs anymore, and spectre doesn't hang19:53
neilI will try it.20:14
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neilI have installed WebGUI on a VPS and I'm looking for info on setting up email - I also have Webmin installed.20:20
@preactionneil: the default config should work fine, provided your VPS has an smtp daemon running20:33
@preactionredhat/centos it works out of the box, not sure what debian/ubuntu does20:33
neilVPS is on CentOS 5.5 32 bit20:34
@preactionthen you're running sendmail. provided you don't allow port 22 incoming from outside, you'll be fine20:34
@preactionif you want local mail delivery, then you'll have to open the firewall and then you'll want to do some lockdown20:34
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scrottie0dammit.  stupid Internet.20:40
scrottie0what did I miss this morning?  anything juicy?20:41
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scrottie0something has to trigger it?20:53
+perlDreamerscrottie0 needs a new haircut!20:58
scrottie0I should have gotten the $20-to-support-the-EFF mohawk at DEFCON!20:59
scrottie0purple at no extra charge!20:59
+perlDreamerdude, you rock the 'hawk20:59
+perlDreamerpreaction: I think you need to prioritize the 30 Blocking/Required tasks21:08
+perlDreamerwe won't get them all done by the time 8 is released21:08
@preactioni thought they were prioritized21:09
@preactionand we only need to get the API freeze ones done first21:09
+perlDreameranything labeled 8 beta should be done first?21:10
@preactionno, API freeze21:10
@preactionfirst we freeze, then we 8 beta, then we 8 stable21:10
@preactiononce all the freeze stuff is done, we release 8 beta. then we work on 8 beta tasks until they're done, then 8 stable21:10
@preactionno, wait, anyway, work on the API freeze ones first, they're absolutely necessary21:11
@preactiontest ones don't really matter21:11
+perlDreamerall righty, then I'll have a go at $session->var => $session21:11
@preactionthen next moving the required profile fields to the users table might be good21:11
scrottie0three activities in the workflow; each doing a `wall` inside a screen session with eight virtual terminals; each virtual terminal generating an activity alert in screen.  whee, fireworks!21:19
scrottie0I still miss metalic droning and a rolling screen full of flashing color patterns.21:20
scrottie0nothing crashes like an Atari 400/800/XL/XE.21:20
scrottie0except maybe a C=64.21:20
+perlDreamerdang, mucho crufto in Session::Var21:27
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@preactionthat's why it's Required ;)21:27
+perlDreamerwell then21:27
+perlDreamerlet's see how catastrophically I can break wG this time :)21:28
@preactionbe liberal with your axe eugene21:28
* perlDreamer is even thinking Moose21:28
@preactionthat's something we can do later21:28
+perlDreameryeah, there's only 89 files to update after making this change21:30
@preactionnice, my addRevision change was 96 files21:30
@preactionand it's been two days of test-reworking ;)21:30
@preactionthe userProfile / users table thing shouldn't be bad at all21:30
+perlDreamerwe only have 1 required field right now, email21:31
@preactionbut i am gonna deprecate some usages of existing APIs, to try to uniform everything up right ways21:31
@preactionno, there are others, used by CS and things21:31
+perlDreamerso anything used internally should be considered required21:31
+perlDreamerlanguage pref21:31
@preactionright, because if they don't exist, webgui will break catastrophically21:32
+perlDreamerand do they come out of the profile, and into the Account screens too?21:32
@preactionno, they're still "Profile Fields", but they're stored in the other table. the existing User.pm already does this21:32
+perlDreamerwe'll talk more about it when I get there21:34
+perlDreamerunless you get there first21:34
@preactioni might actually, but i might take "FormBuilder must be used everywhere" instead21:34
@preactionbecause that's gonna be a bit of work :(21:34
+perlDreameryeah, and I think you'll need to do Form::Control -> template vars first21:34
+perlDreamersince there's a lot of that you can skip if you do it21:34
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CIA-74webgui: Scott Walters master * ree80f8d / (lib/WebGUI/Workflow.pm lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Instance.pm): Docpatch to Workflow / Workflow::Instance so that hopefully people have some chance of figuring out what they need to do to get this puppy to roll. - http://bit.ly/bgt8Lt22:50
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scrottie0hey, hey, hey, it's phat mducharme-laptop!23:02
mducharme-laptopanybody seen perldreamer lately?23:06
Haarghe was here earlier but I don't know when he'll be around again.23:11
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mducharme-laptopwe want to hire someone to do some perl development for us, so I thought of him23:15
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--- Day changed Sat Nov 13 2010
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scrottie0mducharme-laptop, I'm guessing he took off a bit early on this lovely Friday.  I expect he'll be here bright and early Monday morning.00:37
mducharme-laptopit's not lovely here, it's starting to snow00:39
scrottie0that sounds lovely to me.00:39
scrottie0but I've been keeping an eye on skibonk.com lately.00:39
mducharme-laptopI'd love to live somewhere where it didn't snow00:52
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@preactiondoes mysql treat != on a key column as well as it treats =?01:20
@preactionperformance-wise, that is01:20
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@preactionstill something like 50 test scripts failing for me :(02:06
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@preactionhttp://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/11/13/0029203/CDE-mdash-Making-Linux-Portability-Easy?from=rss <- this is damn awesome03:45
scrottie0http://bstj.bell-labs.com/oldfiles/year.1922/BSTJ.1922.0102.html <-- this is pretty damn awesome too =)04:11
scrottie0I've used statifier in the past but it falls down past a certain point.  it fails to make a static binary out of firefox, for example.04:12
scrottie0run-time dynamic library loading in general gets it.04:12
Gettybtw you guys should actually make a report how many bugs you fix per week, cause if you see the stats of facebook against that, i guess you laugh your ass up ;)04:12
scrottie0still really, really handy though04:12
@preactioncde says it fixes that problem04:12
scrottie0that's going in my toy box then.04:12
Gettyhow many coder they have? no idea, but: 24 bugs in 7 days fixed.... ;)04:12
@preactionGetty: our changelog is released every week, and it's just colin working monday and tuesday really04:13
@preactionso in two days, we fix 1/4 the bugs that facebook fixes in 7. well, if they have only one coder, then that makes sense04:13
GettyLOL ;) its hilarious, or?04:14
Gettyalso good stats, they replied on around 160 threads in their developer forum, in 7 days04:14
Getty(against 615 new topics generated)04:14
Gettybtw in general they have 4,286 bugs open 8-)04:14
scrottie0really large codebases can be a house of cards.  you breathe and you've created 5,000 subtle bugs.  moving very carefully and slowly is advisible.04:15
@preactionwell, how many are real bugs? and how many are people just pitching a bitch?04:15
Gettythey produced a minefield by themself04:15
scrottie0that's part of the joy of working on a codebase you can fit in your brain.04:15
scrottie0you can go commando like perlDreamer does.04:15
Gettypreaction: they are all unchecked, so "who knows?"04:15
Gettypreaction: yeah but if they dont check them its even more evil04:15
scrottie0firefox is an interesting case.  they have several year old bugs in their tracker.04:16
Gettypreaction: in 7 days they just reproduced (and so approved) 31 bugs04:16
scrottie0bugs are almost more likely to get obsoleted by time than fixed.04:16
Gettyyeah true04:16
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Gettystill its hilarious for such a huge "empire"04:16
scrottie0that's the result of unchecked growth.  facebook I'm sure exemplifies that.04:16
Gettyi got a like-worm in my account, which instantly make you like it if you browse against it.... reported on all channels so that this get stopped....04:17
Gettybut since 1 month or so, nothing04:17
scrottie0Samy is my hero.04:17
scrottie0g'night everyone.  I gotta go drink Frank a beer.04:17
scrottie0very important.04:17
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Gettyjust curious, when we have webgui 8 you said the admin interface is very flexible, right?04:39
@preactionevery bit of it is overridable through either plugin or template04:39
Gettyif you mean flexible, can we talk about THAT MASSIVE flexible, that i could actually totally make it lets say a JSON interface, so that i can use some application, or "phone app" to manage it?04:40
@preactionwhen we release, i will be looking for ideas to make it easier to extend. i want WebGUI to be the stepping stone to a completely-custom site04:40
Gettythen give the json interface and make an iphone/android compatible management console04:40
Gettyyou would kick ass04:40
@preactionmuch of the new Admin is async with JS. you could call those same APIs, yes04:41
Gettylike also abstracting the webpage from the layout04:41
Gettyso that the user is independent of the layout of the page04:41
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@preactionthere's currently no way to save assets using just JS, you need a form post. there's also currently no way to get the fields and possible values, you'd need the form itself04:41
Gettythat woud massivly increase the power for the writers/fillers of the page04:41
Gettyform post and js doesnt excluse?04:42
@preactionbut those two things are on my list, i do want a JSON API to the Asset system. the User system already has one04:42
Gettydo you plan yourself to make applications for phones or stuff for the management?04:42
Gettyor could i catch up that strategy direction?04:42
@preactionno, that is not in my mandate04:42
@preactioni will make JSON APIs for any app you want to make though04:42
Gettyyeah i guess i will start with a Windows GUI app, so that i can easier test04:43
Gettyand if i see, that we can do anything with the app04:43
Gettythen next step would be porting to devices04:43
Gettyeven tho, i dont know if i would ever make by myself iphone and ipad app04:44
Gettyi just hate apple to much to buy me one to develop them, i would puke at myself every day04:44
Gettyactually i think i would some day take a knife and cut in my arms04:44
@preactionadobe AIR apps can target iphone and ipad04:44
Gettyyeah right04:44
Gettygood idea04:44
Gettyvery good idea, cause i know a friend who is CRAZY on adobe AIR04:44
Gettyi should talk with him04:44
Gettybut first we prove (when its there) that we can all do with a windows app04:45
@preactioni like it too, AS3 is nice (it's just classy JS). as long as you avoid the flash IDE you're fine04:45
Gettyhehe :)04:45
Gettyits somehow funny04:45
Gettyin the past i found adobe more an enemy then something i had to protect04:45
Gettynow, apple "revealed" for me what good adobe did to the communiyt04:45
Gettyflash wasnt a blocker like anyone suggested04:45
@preactionif you are going to build a JSON API to getting asset properties, getting field information, and saving new asset revisions, you might want to talk to me. i can design something if you can implement it04:46
Gettyand its funny that apple made me realize that04:46
@preactionadobe is still a horrible company. Flash IDE is not worth $70004:46
Gettyhehe, they did something04:46
Gettythey moved something04:46
@preactionbut you do have flex and other free tools for swf, so it's fine04:46
Gettytechnology quality was sadly never the point for a movement of a product ;)04:47
Gettyelsewhere webgui wouldnt be so small in usage amount against typo304:47
Gettyactually quality of a product is always AGAINST high user amount04:47
Getty(see facebook) ;)04:47
@preactionor drupal or any other system. why did mediawiki win out when there are far better wiki solutions out there?04:47
@preactionfacebook won the quality battle against myspace04:48
Gettythe wordpress coder THEMSELF said they wanted to change to perl already 3 years ago04:48
Gettybut they cant04:48
Gettycause there is no api for modules or something so that there was a hope that much modules are transfered over04:48
Gettycause ... everyone just fucked around with the vars of the core directly04:48
@preactionbut that's how wordpress was built to function: templates are what we would call plugins04:48
Gettymany important wordpress plugins are just still running cause noone changes the core code that they modify brutally with direct access04:48
Gettyi had a deeper talk with a wordpress coder at cebit ;)04:49
@preactionwebgui has a clear seperation: template does this, template does not do this. there's nothing a wordpress "template" cannot do04:49
Gettyits just hilarious04:49
Gettyso thats why i try to push on perl04:50
Gettysad that we dont have the sponsorship for getting to cebit this year04:50
Gettyend of the month the "last change" is really over to get a booth :(04:50
Gettyits a bit of a shame04:50
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Gettypreaction: still awake?07:01
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@preactionGetty: yes?08:45
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@preactionso with firesheep in the wild, we could use more information to uniquely identify a browser, so that only one browser can have the same session21:09
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+Radix_couldn't you just make sure all user authentication/cookie passing is done via https ?04:59
@preactionthat would mean all traffic would need https, which is fine sure05:00
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SDuensinMorning, Interwebs!16:33
@khennAnother day on the information highway!17:10
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elninoOH! since when do wg create their own sitemap.xml?17:36
@preaction7.8 or 7.9 i think17:44
elninook. And what is the keywords field for under the metatag?17:57
elnino...meta data tab..17:57
elninonever mind17:57
elninook. now I do have a question. 18:00
+bartjolfire away18:00
elninoI need to differentiate between h1 and title.18:00
elninoI created a field in content profiling.18:00
elninobut it isn't showing up on any of my pagelayout's tabs.. I thought they showed up on the metadata tab.18:01
elninogood grief. never mind.18:02
+bartjolstill no question? now I demand one18:03
elninoOK NOW I do have a question.18:13
elninoHow do I use h1??? I'd have to modify ALL the default pagelayout templates!!!18:13
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+perlDreamerpreaction: last week you suggested you and I teaming up and 8'ing 2 days a week, and 7'ing 1 day a week18:16
+perlDreameryou want to try that this week?18:16
@preactionsure, which day would you prefer be 7 day?18:18
elninook. So I ran in to this before,18:19
@preactionokay, i've got a few administrative tasks to work on today, but otherwise i should have most of the addRevision tests I borked working by end of today so I can move on18:19
* perlDreamer will start excising Var18:19
elninoI created content profiling. I created a metatitle field. So use for the <title> tag instead of using your property tab title, because that is being used for >h1>18:20
elninoso I put <title><tmpl_var metatitle></title> into my style template, and it's not reading my metadata.18:20
elninoHow do I do this?18:20
+perlDreameris the metatitle for the style template itself, on an asset inside it?18:21
elninometatitle is a content profile variable defined on the pagelayout.18:22
+perlDreamerin the style template, it doesn't have access to the template variables for the asset it's styling18:22
+perlDreameryou get body.content18:22
+perlDreamerand so on18:22
@preactionbut in the Extra HEAD Tags of the template you have access to the metadata vars, no?18:23
elninoThat's what it sounds like, preaction, but I think I tried that, but I'll try it again.18:23
@preactioni would love to see name="Value" parameters for macros...18:24
* preaction makes a note for 8.1 "Back to Basics"18:24
+perlDreamerhow about if we go away from macros completely and use native TT semantics?18:26
+perlDreamerso we don't have to have a macro processor anymore18:26
+perlDreamerand multiple stages of interpolation18:26
elninoI put <title><tmpl_var metatitle></title> in my extra head tags, and that is exactly what I see. It didn't evaluate the template varaible.18:27
elninomy title is now literally: "<tmpl_var metatitle>"18:27
+perlDreamerextraHeadTags for the layout, or for the style template?18:27
elninopage layout18:27
@preactionor for the layout template? you know i don't even quite know how that whole thing works :p18:28
elninopage layout asset.18:28
elninoI didn't want to get into modifying all my default pagelayout templates. 18:29
@preactioniirc it's in the template that those things are parsed18:29
elninoI got into an arguement with someone why we needed to separate h1 from title. Right now, the title property for any asset does both. that isn't practicle for seo purposes.18:29
elninoso I have to modify all my default page layout tempaltes?18:30
+perlDreamerpreaction: new Session API for Varless follows18:30
+perlDreamersession->open: new session18:30
@preactionelnino: well, you'd be better off setting your page layouts to new templates18:30
+perlDreamersession->close; #really a pause18:30
+perlDreamersession->end; # nuke it18:31
+perlDreamersession->get('\w+'); #access data18:31
elninothen I lose out on the updates you make to the default templates.18:31
+perlDreameralso, I think we should stick in a dummy sub var {return $_[0] };18:31
@preactionand ->new is resume a session?18:31
+perlDreamer->new is resume old, or start a new one18:31
+perlDreamerjust like now18:31
@preactionactually, we could make it even easier for people and use WebGUI::Deprecate18:31
@preactioni have to refactor Deprecate to add some more utilities like "warn_deprecated" which only warns once, and listens to an environment variable to decide to warn or not18:32
+perlDreamerI don't think it would work, since we're merging objects18:32
+perlDreamerthere is no old to call anymore18:32
+perlDreameryou'd like to deprecate $session->var->get18:33
+perlDreamerand tell them to use $session->get18:33
@preactionwell, it'd be easier to deprecate $session->var and have it return $_[0] as you said, the same result really18:33
+perlDreamerwould you balk at me using Class::Accessor to build methods for the properties, instead of using ->get() ?18:35
@preactionno need to add new things for now, we can do that later18:35
elninocan we make the page macro be able to retrieve meta properties?18:38
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@preactionit would be possible, yes18:38
elninothen I can call my content profile varaible from my style template - because that is how it already builds the <title> tag, it by default uses ^page(title);18:39
+perlDreamerwow, $session->var's encapsulation is respected..18:40
elninoI love webgui untill my clients hire a seo consultant.18:55
elninoAny suggestions on providing alt tags to links generated in a navigation asset?18:55
+perlDreamerchange the template?18:55
elninoyes, but where do I define the value I PUT into the alt property?18:56
elninocontent profiling again?18:56
elninoI dont' think i'll be able to read it.18:56
+perlDreamerthat's right18:57
+perlDreameronly core asset properties are available in the loop18:57
+perlDreamerwhich is why we should have global userDefined variables18:58
elninoI think in the past I used summary. which messes up the purpose of that field.18:58
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+perlDreamerthat merge was entirely too easy...19:06
+perlDreamertime to update tests and go boom19:06
elninoanyone know why h1 isn't used?\19:08
+perlDreamerisn't used where?19:09
elninonot that I can see.19:09
elninopagelayouts start with h219:09
elninoarticles titles are h319:09
+perlDreamerisn't that part of the old, abandoned TWG spec?19:09
+perlDreamerh1 reserved for site name, perhaps?19:09
+perlDreameri'd check their wiki and forums for that19:10
elninowe have an abondoned twg spec?19:11
+perlDreamerwe were abandoned by twg19:11
+perlDreamerit makes me quite angry19:11
elninothat is pretty sad.  they just dispersed?19:12
elninoa lot of good work came out of it.19:12
elninoI'm glad the templates were all cleaned up, but I never understood the abondnment of h119:12
+perlDreamerto paraphrase, "There's too much work and we don't want to do it".19:12
+perlDreamerbut that's a harsh characterization of good people19:13
SDuensinSo, the Template Slacking Group?  :-)19:14
+perlDreamerlike I said, it's a harsh characterization of good people19:16
+perlDreamernot everyone is bent like I am, who love to write tests, POD and maintain code19:16
dreamersgirlslacking is fun?19:16
SDuensinYea.  Templating WG is a heck of a project.  19:17
elninowell, depends on what they were going to accomplish. They did a good job cleaning the templates up and makeing them consistant at least.19:18
elninoIf their purpose is to make things look pretty, THAT is a big job.19:19
elninoI think the one an only mistake is reserving h1.19:19
+perlDreamerbut they didn't clean up ALL the templates19:21
elninowhat is left?19:21
+perlDreamerthey fixed Article, File, Image, Page, Layout19:22
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elninoperlDreamer, is there an rfe for userdefined variables?20:19
@preactionyes, but why do you need them?20:19
+perlDreamerpeople need arbitrary scratch variables for assets20:20
elninoread my next wiki, and you'll know why.20:20
+perlDreamerbut we've debated this before20:20
@preactionisn't that what metadata is for?20:20
elninoto be published soon.20:20
+perlDreamermetadata isn't exposed by default to all templates20:20
@preactionbecause metadata sucks but can be fixed20:20
+perlDreameror if you do a get20:20
+perlDreamerwe don't have to fix it though20:20
+perlDreameradding userDefined vars is much simpler than fixing a sucky system20:21
@preactionand much less useful. marginalizing metadata even more, might as well just remove it completely20:21
+perlDreamerthat works for me20:22
+perlDreamerwe could make it an addon20:22
+perlDreamerso that you don't have to carry it around20:22
+perlDreamerwhat metadata was meant to be, Keywords are20:22
elninomy guess is that the metadata was created for the meta tags right?20:23
elninowhat got all confusing is that now the summary field is for meta descriptions, and keywords is for meta keywords.20:23
elninoso why have meta data?20:23
+perlDreamerno, it was created to track you through the site20:23
elninofor other meta tags.20:23
+perlDreamerthat's why it's called content profiling20:23
+perlDreamersee the AOI macros20:23
elninofair enough20:24
+perlDreamerwe've abused it to do other, useful things20:24
elninothen meta data should be "content profiing" only.20:24
elninometa tags should be in the "extra heads"20:24
elninoand global user defined variables should be yet another "thing"20:24
elninothey kinda all got mixed up. in my opinion.20:24
elninoThis is the second time an SEO expert has been hired, and they ask us to do what are impossible in webgui. unless we have userdefined varaibles OR additional property fields.20:25
+perlDreameror, like preaction suggests, exposing metadata to $asset->get()20:26
@preactionor custom macros20:27
elninoOr that is definately a good option. Woudl that allow ^page macro to see them too?20:27
@preactionit just may contain other, unforeseen consequences20:29
@preactionyou could just fix the page macro to try metadata too20:29
elninoI would, but it isn't my server. no custom code allowed. =)20:29
+perlDreamereven if we WRE it in, you'd have to upgrade to beta20:30
+perlDreamerthat may not be an option either20:30
elninonot in this particluar case.20:30
elninoI'm trying to fire my client.  =)20:30
elninoso I dont' have to deal with these limitations. 20:30
elninocomments/corrections on my very confusing wiki are most welcome!20:42
+perlDreamerpreaction: so far, moving Var is pretty smooth21:03
+perlDreamerI'm moving tests from Var.t into Session.t bit by bit, and correcting and updating21:03
+perlDreamerthen I'll be ready for find .... xargs perl -pi -e21:03
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Trex___Hey folks. I have a "bug or feature" question about WebGUI's trash...22:46
+perlDreamerlay it on us, Trex__22:46
Trex___If you delete a file but don't purge it from the trash, the file remains accessible via the direct URL...22:46
+perlDreamernow, do you mean the File asset, or the file stored inside the File asset?22:47
Trex___The file itself.22:47
elninoI think there is a bug report about that. I think I've found that it remains even after you purge it.22:47
+perlDreamerit shouldn't remain after you purge it22:47
+perlDreamerif you can show us how to duplicate that bug, we'll fix it22:48
Trex___I did a quick search of the bugs list and didn't see anything that looked like this.22:48
elninoI'll look in mine.22:48
Trex___I'm not talking about after purging but before -- you want to delete a file from general access on the website, but if, say, Google has cached the direct URL already, people can still find it.22:48
+perlDreamerTrex___, how would mod_proxy know what the state of a file in the file system is, with respect to its Asset?22:48
Trex___Via the .wgaccess file, I would presume.22:49
Trex___Even if the file was generally visible before, I would presume that if it moves to the trash, a .wgaccess file would be added so that it wasn't generally available.22:49
elninois google grabbing it's uploads/ path or are they caching the webgui url?22:51
Trex___Our content managers assume that if they delete something that it becomes unavailable to general viewers as well -- but that's not the case.  The file remains available and sometimes in Google's cache until the 30 day (default) purge.22:51
Trex___This is the direct, /uploads/ path.22:51
elninoI don't have a bug report about that. =)22:51
@preactionfor now you'll have to ask them to purge it. when it's fixed, you'll also need to make sure mod_proxy forwards requests for any uploads/ path that has a .wgaccess file (which the latest WRE config does)22:52
Trex___By "when it's fixed" does this mean it's a bug not a feature? :)22:52
@preactionit's a deviation from expected behavior. the asset itself is unreachable, but the storage location is still fine and dandy22:53
Trex___OK, I'm happy to file a bug report on it if you haven't started one already.22:54
elninoI haven't.22:54
@preactiongo ahead, all yours22:55
Trex___OK, I'll add the report.22:55
Trex___Also, with regards to the latest WRE configuration, is WebGUI still using the following rewrite rules to ensure a check for permissions:22:56
Trex___RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME}             ^(.*/) 22:56
Trex___        RewriteCond ${DOCUMENT_ROOT}%1.wgaccess     !-f 22:56
Trex___        RewriteRule ^/uploads/                      - [L]22:56
@preactiondon't paste please22:56
Trex___It's the method mentioned here: http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/protecting-file-assets/1422:57
@preactionand yes, that is the correct configuration, provided it's in all your .modproxy files, any file created before 0.9.3 may not have those lines22:57
Trex___I'm reviewing a system on which our sysadmin has upgraded to the latest stable WG, but I can't be sure that he didn't do something unexpected like revert the modproxy files.22:58
@preactionwebgui doesn't upgrade the modproxy files, wre doesn't automatically either22:58
@preactionwebgui doesn't know about the WRE, essentially. 22:58
Trex___OK...there must be something odd going on, because this doesn't seem to be properly preventing access to files on our systems...but it does seem to be working on the latest WG demo site, so must be something in our system I'll need to track down.22:59
Trex___Not much that you all can help with without access to our systems so I'll just leave it at that. :)23:00
Trex___But thanks for confirming the prior issue about the trash. And with that, I have to duck out again.23:01
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@preactionplanning APIs and such out in WebGUI 7 is painful compared to what we have in 8 :(00:53
@preactioncan't have a "getSomethingForm" method, as I can't modify the form that comes out of it. it has to return a complete form, or some horribleness like a set of <tr>00:53
@preactionhmm... or...00:54
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@preactionor i can design something braindead enough that the future APIs can work with it while deprecating it... 00:55
@preactionlet's build APIs just to immediately deprecate them! yay!00:55
+perlDreameror, let's tell people they have to do that project in 801:18
@preactiontheir drop-dead date is Dec 19. not plausible :(01:34
+perlDreameroh!  Go alpha, be brave!01:38
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SDuensinHowdy all.16:38
+bartjolno, not him again :P16:38
SDuensinA pain in your butt since WG 5.x!16:40
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@preactioni'm surprised you admit to using that... product...17:41
SDuensinIt's why I'm here.  There was absolutely nothing even remotely close to it back then.17:44
SDuensinAnd I wasn't even looking for a CMS when I found it.  :-D17:44
SDuensin(Was trying to find a pre-made library for building web UIs for locally run software like the old SATAN security scanner used.)17:45
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neil__I have WebGUI setup on a vps for 3 sites and would like to know which is better, Virtualmin or Webmim.17:57
+perlDreamerneil__: none of those will do anything for WebGUI itself17:58
neil__I'm having a difficult time settting up messaging in WebGUI.17:59
neil__WebGUI should work fine with Sendmail17:59
@preactionand it does, yes18:00
neil__But I don't know how to set it up18:01
@preactionwell, if you need to configure anything, i'd suggest not using sendmail18:01
neil__What do you suggest I use for email/messaging18:03
@preactionwell, for e-mail, i'd suggest postfix18:04
SDuensinneil__: I run this setup - http://flurdy.com/docs/postfix/18:04
neil__My vps is on CentOS while your suggestion is primarily for a Debian system ..18:12
+perlDreamerI didn't know that postfix worked differently based on the OS it sat on18:13
SDuensinWell, the install will be a bit different.  Some confs may move around.18:13
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@preactionneil__: have you checked the maillog as to why it might be failing? does the server know who it is? is it trying to deliver mail locally?18:37
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neil__I would like to see email/messaging setup where, webgui user when logged can check their inbox. And also via mozilla thunderbird or similar 18:43
neil__Only admin, content creator can log into webgui18:44
@preactionwebgui's inbox has nothing to do with e-mail. users just get e-mailed when something gets added to their inbox18:46
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neil__I lost connection18:53
neil__I would like to see email/messaging setup where, webgui admin and content creator when logged can check their inbox. And also via mozilla thunderbird or similar18:54
@preactionwebgui's inbox has nothing to do with e-mail. users just get e-mailed when something gets added to their inbox18:55
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neil__I have edited the question - How can webgui users check their emails via mozilla thunderbird or similar?19:04
@preactiondo you mean their Inbox or normal, regular e-mail?19:05
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@frodwithin webgui 8, should asset->newById throw an exception or return undef if there's no such asset? (docs say it should return undef, but in trunk it throws an exception)19:08
neil__Both actually. I really would like to know.19:12
@preactionneil__: normal e-mail is normal e-mail. inbox cannot be read through an e-mail client19:13
@preactionfrodwith: it should throw an exception19:13
CIA-74webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * r8af425a / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : docpatch for outdated pod on Asset->newById - http://bit.ly/cpODPb19:17
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neil__preaction: what is the simplest configuration so that emails can be checked via mozilla thunderbird or similar?19:28
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neil___preaction: what is the simplest configuration so that emails can be checked via mozilla thunderbird or similar?19:31
@preactionneil___: this isn't a WebGUI thing, talk to your imap or pop3 daemon's help channel19:33
plainhaoneil___, configure your webgui to forward inbox messages19:33
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@preactionoh fun. because Registered Users isn't a real group, WebGUI::Group->getUsersNotIn doesn't work with it19:52
+perlDreamerfrodwith: bad docs.  It throws20:33
+perlDreamerdoc patches welcome :)20:33
+perlDreamerfixes for bad code even more welcome20:33
+perlDreamerI also accept donations of small, sweet baked goods20:33
@frodwithperlDreamer: docpatch committed roughly an hour ago20:34
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CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell master * r5f89a28 / (4 files in 4 dirs): fix #11965: FriendMgr pagination and getUsersNotIn - http://bit.ly/drhHAj21:28
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * rca9b02e / (4 files in 4 dirs): fix #11965: FriendMgr pagination and getUsersNotIn - http://bit.ly/aXuP8521:31
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r9ad8b0b / (2 files in 2 dirs): move package to correct place - http://bit.ly/9h3JUx21:31
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r8c06c28 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : changelog - http://bit.ly/bmJNLo21:31
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell master * r3360757 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : changelog - http://bit.ly/bBwHZ221:32
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@preactionhttp://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11964 <- i'm thinking of fixing this bug by overriding trash() and commit() to add a "state" : "trash" to the wgaccess file. commit() adds to any previous revisions, and trash() adds to the current revision22:14
Haargyou could also just write out a wgaccess file with no permissions granted22:18
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@preactionalso true, but i'd want to know why22:38
+perlDreamerpreaction: I fixed the calendar extend recurrence bug already23:10
+perlDreamerbut I didn't file a bug for it23:10
@preactionhm... seems you did. was it in 7.9.18 that they're running?23:11
+perlDreamerI lied, I did submit a bug, it's #1195623:14
+perlDreamerand it's in last week's release, .1923:14
+perlDreamersorry dude23:22
@preactionthen i don't know what these peoples' problem is if it's not that23:22
+perlDreamerthey're one version too old23:23
+perlDreamer.18 instead of .1923:23
@preaction.17 was the last version they said23:24
+perlDreamerwell, they're 2 versions old then23:27
+perlDreamerslackers! get with it!23:27
+perlDreamerI slave over a hot release system every week23:27
+perlDreamerand they can't even upgrade!23:27
* perlDreamer sniffs and runs into the kitchen23:27
@preactionperlDreamer: just let me know when you're done whining and are ready to do the release. i'll keep bugsquashing until then23:42
+perlDreameryou do realize how incredibly tempting that is, right?23:42
+perlDreamerI can easily give you 12-14 more hours of bugfixing time, if you wish23:42
@preactionwell, i have a madmongers meeting to go to, so i can't work that long23:46
@preactionand the failing addRevision tests are starting to mock me23:46
@preactioni can hear them... taunting me on another branch... teasing my inability to fix them23:46
@preactionoh crap. they heard me talking about them...23:46
+perlDreamerbe strong!23:50
+perlDreamerit's not inability23:54
+perlDreamerit's being surrounded by those who require your help all the time23:54
+perlDreamerinterrupting those valuable thought processes23:54
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@preactionmmm love writing regression tests. i love the feeling of "I will never have to fix this bug ever again"00:44
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r386ce03 / (5 files in 5 dirs): fix #11964 files show in trash and old revisions - http://bit.ly/bEYdLq01:56
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r8649ad8 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : changelog - http://bit.ly/diYDIo01:56
@preactionperlDreamer: re: the iPad / TinyMCE problem. did we just add it to etc/WebGUI.conf.original or also in an upgrade?02:01
+perlDreamerit's a configuration option02:26
+perlDreamerif people want it, they should add it02:26
+perlDreamerthere's no way I want 8e6 bug reports for "my personal mobile browser" is not supported02:26
+perlDreamerbesides, in 8 this is fixed 02:32
+perlDreamerby using the excellent HTTP::BrowserDetect module02:32
@preactiontrue nuff02:35
@preactionbut the problem is that iPad isn't really a mobile, it's big02:35
@preactioni think this'll be my last bug of the night02:36
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell master * r55920f5 / (5 files in 5 dirs): fix #11964 files show in trash and old revisions - http://bit.ly/carDIQ02:49
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell master * rc8aa4a5 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : changelog - http://bit.ly/bQYTby02:49
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell master * r270f52a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): fix 11954 Can't clear packed head tags - http://bit.ly/atD9rC02:49
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * rd95aa4a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): fix 11954 Can't clear packed head tags - http://bit.ly/aeF7E202:49
+perlDreamerpreaction: for that packed head tags, do we need to have an upgrade sub which fixes assets with badly set packed head tags?02:51
@preactioni'd say no, they'll get cleared out by the next save of the asset02:53
+perlDreamerbut in the meantime, they're still wrong02:53
@preactionbut they're not being used, and if they are, someone will figure it out02:54
+perlDreamerthey're not being used?02:56
+perlDreamerI thought the bug was that they were being used02:56
+perlDreamerand the user removed the head tags02:56
+perlDreamerand they kept showing up02:57
@preactionif you really want to add it, go ahead, i'm at madison.pm meeting02:58
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+perlDreamerpreaction: test suite breakage03:20
@preactionrunning a test03:20
* perlDreamer goes back to making meatball sandwiches03:21
+perlDreamerd'ya want us to make an extra one for you?03:21
@preactionthanks, no. just had Steak Mafia at Come Back In03:22
@preactiondamnit it all passes in 7.10...03:26
@preactionwtf, now it doesn't...03:35
@preactionokay, so i didn't change anything with this code, but now it doesn't work. comments?03:58
* perlDreamer would guess...03:59
+perlDreamerYou touched Storage, which affects Asset/File.t03:59
+perlDreamerand Image.t03:59
+perlDreamersomething leaked a test, which broke VersionTag.t03:59
+perlDreamerand FilePump uses Storage, too03:59
+perlDreamerpreaction has on his Han Solo blaster and vest tonight Getty03:59
@preactionperlDreamer: but i put a bunch of damned warns and it works just fine, the rest of the tests would fail if these tests were really failing wrongly04:00
+perlDreameryou asked for comments, that's my best guess04:00
@preactionperhaps the problem is that setStoragelocation and getStorageLocation do wayyyyyy too much04:02
+perlDreamerthey worked just fine 18 hours ago04:03
@preactioni know, and they worked fine 4 hours ago when i committed the storage changes i did04:03
@preactionand the warns show the correct data, but the tests fail04:04
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+perlDreamerI'll rerun the suite with DEBUG turned on, and see if it shows anything else04:06
@preactioni'm gonna revert commits until they pass04:08
@preactionit's the last commit, the can't clear packed head tags one...04:10
+perlDreamerthat breaks File, Image, VersionTags and FilePump?04:11
+perlDreamertalk about collateral damage04:11
@preactionyeah... i got no clue either...04:11
@preactionbut at least we know where to look04:11
@preactioni mean it's only 3 damned lines04:11
@preactionwell, i missed an addToCleanup. that might fix the VersionTag test04:13
@preactionand it's not the test, it's those exact lines04:15
@preactionit's the actual update i added. wtf...04:17
@preactionhow much of the existing update() exists in 8? zero? can it please be zero?04:19
+perlDreamerwell, update is inherited all throughout Asset-ville04:20
+perlDreameriirc, none of it exists per se04:20
+perlDreamerit's moved into write, and various per-attribute wrappers04:20
+perlDreameroh, and a Role or 204:21
@preactionwell, i guess i'll go debug-diving...04:21
* preaction dons environment suit04:21
* perlDreamer can be two of them, I'm quite stout04:21
@preactionhmm... overriding update might be the problem04:23
+perlDreamerbut why does calling update inside packedHeadTags cause this problem?04:25
+perlDreamerupdate calls getStorageLocation04:26
+perlDreamerwhich calls setStorageLocation04:26
+perlDreamerwhich calls update04:26
@preactionand if storageId hasn't been hit in the first update() yet, you create two storage locations04:27
@preactionbut a better question is why is packExtraHeadTags getting called at all, as i'm not passing extraHeadTags to update()04:27
+perlDreamerwe don't know where it's being called04:31
+perlDreamercould be on addChild04:31
+perlDreamerFilePump/Bundle fails because it uses a File Asset, which no longer has a storage location04:32
+perlDreamerand Image.t fails because it copied the File.t tests which are failing04:33
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8c4785b / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl): Don't call setParent if the asset is still broken. Alert user if the asset is still broken. Fixes bug #11957. - http://bit.ly/czqOY604:40
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r28606bd / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl): Don't call setParent if the asset is still broken. Alert user if the asset is still broken. Fixes bug #11957. - http://bit.ly/apSCY504:42
@preactionperlDreamer: can you think of a reason why we need to do $self->get('storageId') ne $before{'storageId'} without having storageId in the update props?04:45
@preactionoooh i got a fix i thinks!04:48
+perlDreamerI cannot think of a reason that it should happen without storageId being passed04:48
+perlDreamerthat being said, let's believe the tests04:48
+perlDreameroh, hang on04:49
@preactionand instead of setStorageLocation in update(), i just delete $self->{_storageLocation}. then getStorageLocation will update that when we need it to04:49
+perlDreamerthe permissions can change04:49
+perlDreamerbut that should be handled by addRev making a new location04:49
+perlDreameryeah, I think you're good04:49
@preactionthat's handled right below, the setPermissions is called04:49
@preactiontests passing so fars! yay!04:50
@preaction<3 test suites04:50
+perlDreamerpush it up, and I'll test too04:52
@preactionk, one sec04:52
+perlDreamertomorrow, we talk about some of the remaining bugs, and more 8acking04:52
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell master * r19dedc0 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset/File.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): 04:55
CIA-74webgui: fix problem revealed by tests04:55
CIA-74webgui: update() in a File asset would always create a storage location if one04:55
CIA-74webgui: was not yet saved. calling update() in a filter method would cause04:55
CIA-74webgui: another one to be created too, messing up the tests. - http://bit.ly/amh6Ut04:55
@preactionperlDreamer: nope. Scrumm says we don't look back. we 8!04:57
+perlDreamerneed to make decisions about new TinyMCE05:05
+perlDreamerand indexing userProfile05:05
+perlDreameror changing the lookup for unique email addresses05:05
@preactionyes, but we can do that next tuesday, when it's 7.x day again05:06
+perlDreamervery guud (ala Dexter)05:06
@preactionfilepump macro still fails05:07
@preactionand versiontag still fails05:10
+perlDreamerI cleaned up the latest forum span05:11
+perlDreamerand deleted the account05:13
+perlDreamerruns clean for me, preaction05:19
@preactioni didn't reset before my last run, so i'm running again05:19
+perlDreamerI think you're good05:20
@preactioni mean, the TaxDriver/EU.t failed, so something wonky was up05:20
+perlDreameryeah, that's really weird05:26
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CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r19b901f / (26 files in 11 dirs): Preparing for 7.10.5 release - http://bit.ly/bfXNSe06:28
* perlDreamer loves easy upgrades06:50
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CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r63217ab / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.6 development. - http://bit.ly/bWUARl07:03
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+bartjolbtw, wouldn't it be convenient to use the versionsort option of indexoptions for upgrade.webgui.org?16:00
+bartjolsee http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_autoindex.html16:01
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+bartjolkhenn who controls the update.webgui.org webserver?16:07
+bartjolgoodmorning btw16:07
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@khennupdate.webgui.org is one of our servers I believe16:09
@khennpreaction could confirm16:09
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+bartjolpreaction: are you willing to make an improvement in the apache setup on the update.webgui.org site?16:17
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@frodwithdoes anyone else find typed exception handling annoyingly verbose? like you have to be all..  if (blessed($ex) && $ex->isa('whatever i care about')) { do something } else { if (blessed($ex) && $ex->can('rethrow')) { $ex->rethrow() } else { die $ex } }18:03
@frodwiththinking of releasing a tiny cpan module that does ...  if (caught('my class') { do_something } else { rethrow() } inside of a Try::Tiny catch block.18:07
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@preactiongood morning WebGUI!19:33
xdangerso if site uses emails as accountnames, shouldn't it sync the change of email / accountname to each other?19:43
@preactionno, you could, but it doesn't happen automatically19:43
@preactionand this kind of papercut thing is something i want to address in 8.2 "Users and Groups"19:44
xdangerI meant it doesn't but I think it should =)19:44
@preaction8.1 is "Back to Basics", 8.2 will be 'Users and Groups', 8.3 will be "Recollaboration", and haven't got any further in my planning yet19:44
@preactionbut yes, if e-mail is being used as username, the email field probably should be synced with it19:45
@preactionjust as if e-mail is being validated, it should always be validated19:45
@preactionand other weirdnesses of the current system19:45
xdangeryou could override the email change and have it send an email to the new one with a url to a function that changes it (with a security has, or require the user to be logged in)19:46
xdangershould it send an email to the old one also? :)19:47
@preactionright, it's not a technical problem, it's a logistics problem: we're trying to push out 8 before it's stillborn19:47
xdangerif I write that, I mean the sync with email & account, will you put it in 7.10?19:48
@preactionif you get it before the 7.10 freeze, of course19:48
xdangerwhen is the freeze?19:48
xdangerand will there be 7.11 ?19:48
@preactionDecember, probably first week of it19:48
@preactionno. 8.0 is the next beta cycle19:49
xdangeris the 8.x cycle going to be like 6.x?19:49
xdangerin that you refine the api19:49
@preactioni wasn't around during 6.x, but 8.0.0 will begin the API freeze for 8.x19:49
@preactioni will be adding new APIs and deprecating old APIs, but they will continue to work all through 8.x19:50
xdangerok, great19:50
xdangercan't wait for 8.019:50
@preactionin fact, many of the APIs i could've removed from 8.0.0 i left just because we hadn't warned anyone about deprecation19:50
@preactionunfortunately, i had to mess with WebGUI::Auth->new, as it was completely broken, but the rest of the Auth API should work just fine19:51
xdangerI've read your debrication conversations a little =)19:51
@preactionAssets will need rewriting, but that's the only bit19:51
@preactionotherwise look in the WebGUI8 branch at docs/migration.txt19:51
xdangerI'm turning an old (since webgui 6.x) site to allow user registrations, and I want to have them work properly19:52
@preactionbut the main point of 8.x will be to add the 9.x APIs so we can remove the old ones in 9.0.019:53
xdangerI've been trying the languageOverride today and I'm now of to the user registration19:53
@preactionxdanger: if you add some tests for your code to t/Auth.t you can merge the language stuff right away19:54
xdangerI decided to hack in a workflow to the DataForm to create the new users so I don't have to change their "workflow" too much19:55
xdangerhow about the ProfileField, does it have a test?19:56
@preactionyou'll need to, but you don't have to test anything but what you added (so instance the "language" profile field and make sure its default value is set to the scratch value)19:56
@preactioni mean, if you want to test more than that, feel free, it's better for everybody, but we mainly don't want coverage to go down19:57
xdangerthe ProfileFiled change only changes the default in the selection box to the ovveride value19:58
xdangerpreaction: should I create a new user in the test, or add it to the creation that is already there?20:01
@preactionwhichever should work, as long as the test fails without your patch, and passes with your patch20:02
@preactionnot looking for perfection, just more of a "sunny day" "this is how it should work, but there may be edge cases" sort of thing20:02
@preactiona starting point for the feature, so i know what the feature is supposed to do and if an edge case crops up i can just add another test20:02
xdangerSo German is in the core and I can use that, and it won't be removed?20:04
@preactionhm... probably fine for now20:05
@preactionwe haven't set guidelines on whether or not languages can be removed if they fall behind on their translation20:05
@frodwithhttps://gist.github.com/703750 ...  gaaaaaaawd that's cute20:13
@preactionnice indeed. i'd almost say it belongs in Try::Tiny period20:14
@frodwithoh, I dunno.  Not everyone using Try::Tiny does class based exception dispatch20:15
@frodwithlike the use cases in the Try::Tiny docs are all check-this-string-with-a-regex20:15
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xdangerok, then to forking webgui so I can create my first pull request =D20:46
CIA-74webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * rfe62171 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset/File.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): 20:49
CIA-74webgui: fix problem revealed by tests20:49
CIA-74webgui: update() in a File asset would always create a storage location if one20:49
CIA-74webgui: was not yet saved. calling update() in a filter method would cause20:49
CIA-74webgui: another one to be created too, messing up the tests. - http://bit.ly/cYaLMx20:49
@preactiongood job CIA, just spam the entire commit message instead of just the minimal tag20:51
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xdangeruuu, git & github are awesome =)21:03
xdangerpreaction: did I do that request correctly?21:09
@preactionxdanger: yep, i gots it21:12
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CIA-74webgui: Paul Driver master * ra3acacd / lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm : make modperl shut up about exit - http://bit.ly/aaSOeP22:09
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+perlDreamermy hands will be so happy when we can . instead of ->23:19
@scrottiethere was a discussion probably a year or two back now on p5p about making $foo`bar do the same thing as $foo->{bar}.  I'd really like to have seen that.  ultimately, Larry shot it down.23:23
+perlDreameryeah, wasn't ` the old Perl 4 syntax for namespacing?23:31
* perlDreamer goes off to pickup kids23:32
Haarg' not `23:37
@khennare you guys really talking about converting WebGUI to Perl 6?23:41
@preactionperl 6 does not yet exist23:41
@khennor is perlDreamer dreaming23:41
@khennperlDreamer: my hands will be so happy when we can . instead of ->23:42
@scrottieParrot is great.  it combines the speed of the Transmeta CPU with the architectural elegance of the VAX CPU.23:45
@scrottiepeople were migrating from the JVM in droves even before Oracle sued Google and locked the Apache Software Foundation out the validation process.23:46
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Trex___Hello again! Many thanks to those who got the files-in-trash bug fixed so quickly and in the next release. :)23:52
Trex___I wanted to ask about the .wgaccess files. I noticed that there are two formats -- a simple one-user/group-per-line and one that uses JSON...23:53
Trex___Does anyone recall when the change took place?23:53
@preaction7.8 or 7.9 most likely23:53
@preactionthe change was mainly for the Gallery, as there were some permissions problems in there23:54
Trex___Should all the existing wgaccess files be changed during upgrades past this point?23:54
@preactioneither way, both are valid for now, and will be valid to at least 9.x23:54
@preactionnot that i'm aware of23:54
@preactionbackwards compatibility is a bit of a tricky artform23:54
Trex___I did see that WebGUI::URL::Uploads has routines to handle either type.23:55
@preactionmoving an old /uploads folder into a new site, for example, after modifying the database by hand23:55
Trex___But I was curious because our test site that has been upgraded to 7.9.16 retains the older format, but the newer sites seem to have the JSON format by default.23:55
Trex___On our upgraded sites, if you upload a new file, the wgaccess file created is still in the older format. Is that the proper behavior?23:56
@preactionany new wgaccess created should be in the new format23:56
Trex___Huh. That's not what I'm seeing...23:57
@preactioneh, either way it's working fine23:57
Trex___I wonder though...the problem I was looking into that caused me to notice this is that we found file URLs (/uploads/...) all are being served out without proper permission controls.23:58
Trex___I've tracked it down to that bit of the mod_proxy file that allows uploads without .wgaccess files to be served directly, without WebGUI's involvement. That bit seems to not be "seeing" wgaccess files that truly exist on our systems.23:59
--- Day changed Thu Nov 18 2010
Trex___My guess is ownership/permissions somewhere, and I'm helping our sysadmin track down the issue.00:00
Trex___There wouldn't be any strange mechanism by which this would affect how wgaccess files are written?00:01
@preactionno, the wgaccess file is written and read by modperl. modproxy only checks if it exists00:02
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Trex___OK, thanks. Can you tell me what ownership and permissions there ought to be under each domain's uploads directory?00:08
@preactionthe apache user has to be able to read and write, and for directories, also execute. it should also probably own them, so that it can chmod00:09
Trex___Under the wre "webgui" is the apache user?00:10
@preactionit is whatever you configured it to be. check wre/etc/wre.conf00:10
Trex___Gotcha. Thanks.00:13
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+perlDreamerkhenn, I figure at some point, perl5 will start using . instead of -> for dereference00:38
@preactionno strict; my $obj = Asset->new; print $obj.getTitle <- what now sucka?00:39
+perlDreamermy $obj = Asset.new; print $obj.getTitle00:39
@preactioni'm saying do that in current Perl and see what happens00:39
Trex___Aha! Interesting...00:43
Trex___Our sites use the mod_proxy rewrite rules as listed in JT's post to this thread: http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/protecting-file-assets/1400:43
Trex___...but if I change ${DOCUMENT_ROOT} to %{DOCUMENT_ROOT} this seems to resolve our file access problem.00:44
Trex___Was there a change in Apache rewrite rule syntax, perhaps?00:44
@preaction%{} is a server var, ${} is something else00:45
+perlDreamerstring interpolation ?00:46
Trex___Is JT's use of ${} in this instance correct, then?00:46
@preactionwell, $1, $2, etc... work00:46
@preactionTrex___: does it work?00:46
Trex___Changing to %{DOCUMENT_ROOT} does appear to solve the problem. I'm checking some variations to confirm...00:47
Haarg${DOCUMENT_ROOT} was incorrect00:47
Trex___Yes, after changing to a %, I'm getting the proper behavior for files with permissions set vs. those without.00:51
Trex___Is this how the RewriteRule appears in the default WRE configuration?00:52
Haargyes.  it was incorrect at one point in the past.00:53
Trex___Sorry...I guess I should have specified whether by "this" I meant %{} vs. ${}. :)00:53
Haargit uses % now00:54
Trex___OK, thanks. I guess that resolves another mystery of ours.00:55
Trex___Our systems were migrated to the wre sometime about 7.3/4 and are getting ready to be upgraded from 7.5.38, so we have a lot of little things whose origin are mysteries lost to the past.00:56
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Trex___Thanks again for your help, folks. Time for me to head out and pack for a little road trip.01:12
Trex___I'm driving to Chicago tomorrow. I'll give a wave to PlainBlack HQ on my way. :)01:12
Trex___...on my way by, rather.01:13
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+perlDreamerpreaction: new Var-less Session tests passing, time to go through the core and do cleanup02:19
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@preactionperlDreamer: how do i get the leak detection to work in the test suite?02:24
+perlDreamerenv WEBGUI_TEST_DEBUG=102:24
+perlDreamerthen you write a fancy ack to give you test names and leaks02:25
+perlDreamerthe detection of scratch variables is buggy02:25
+perlDreamerbut everything else is very trustworthy02:25
@preactionthere's just a template being left around, but don't know where/why02:25
@preactionbecause it's bugging up a bunch of tests02:25
+perlDreamerit'll catch it02:26
+perlDreamerit's before the first failing test02:26
+perlDreamerbut that won't help much02:26
+perlDreamerdid Session->var->end ever take an argument on which session to close?02:28
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+perlDreamerI don't think it did02:28
+perlDreamerbut it's all over the code02:28
+perlDreamerI think I'm almost done02:34
+perlDreamerif I am02:34
+perlDreamerthen tomorrow, I'll merge in 7.10.502:34
+perlDreamerand then the Varless branch02:35
@preactionis there supposed to be this much leaking? or is this me?02:35
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+perlDreamerthere will be lots of +1 and -1 in the session and scratch02:36
@preactionit's already scrolled too high02:36
+perlDreamerlet's see02:36
+perlDreamerack '^.+$\.t|^# \w+: \s*\d+'02:36
+perlDreamershould do it02:36
+perlDreamerdo that on the log02:37
@preactionis there a log automatically kept?02:37
+perlDreameryou don't tee your runs by default?02:37
@preactionthen i have to run the whole shebang again02:37
+perlDreameruse tee, it'll help02:38
+perlDreamernext time :/02:38
+perlDreamerbad test breakage in Varless03:13
+perlDreamermaybe not03:14
+perlDreamerI forgot to update them, too!03:14
@preactionperlDreamer: perhaps a goal should be that the tests run as-is? that way we know it's backward compatible?03:30
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@preactionso every test runs clean after a reset and running individually, but a messload fail after something leaks...03:56
@preactioni won't subject you to this, i'll fix it tomorrow03:56
+perlDreameryou are a kind and gracious code dictator04:19
+perlDreamerI may be back on later tonight, we shall see...04:19
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mducharme-laptophey perldreamer19:00
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+perlDreamermducharme-laptop: howdy20:03
* perlDreamer was at the gym20:03
mducharme-laptopperldreamer would you be interested in doing some perl development work for us?20:04
+perlDreamerOh yeah!20:04
mducharme-laptopI'm looking at a few different options but I thought I would ask you as well20:04
+perlDreamerdo you have a spec for what you want?20:04
mducharme-laptopI'll message you20:05
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+perlDreamerpreaction: ready to merge in Varless into WebGUI8!21:04
@preactionsounds good21:04
+perlDreamerwe need to encourage frodwith to fix the Fork issues that we're having21:04
+perlDreamerseamless merge21:04
+perlDreamernever happened before21:04
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdcff137 / (62 files in 22 dirs): Merge branch 'Varless' into WebGUI8 (+5 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/ctUwvd21:05
Haargi kind of hate that Monkey::Patch is being used in core, but if it is, progressbar should probably be adapted to use it instead of doing the symbol table stuff itself21:12
+perlDreamerProgressBar should be moved over to using Fork, no?21:13
CIA-74webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rb6abeb0 / lib/WebGUI/Deprecate.pm : use Package::Stash for deprecation - http://bit.ly/dC36hx21:13
Haargalso, should get frodwith to have Monkey::Patch use Package::Stash for symbol table stuff instead of doing it itself and using Sub::Delete21:13
+perlDreamerpreaction: do you want to talk through making Session::Id not dependent on Session?21:29
@preactionwhat needs talking through?21:29
+perlDreamerwell, the config filename is part of the data that's encrypted21:30
+perlDreamershould we use a config object instead?21:30
+perlDreameror something else altogether?21:30
@preactionperhaps you could pass in that value to generate if you wanted, but it would be optional?21:31
+perlDreamerthe shorter the message gets, the less randomness you have21:31
+perlDreamerand the higher chance of a collision21:31
+perlDreamerit's already compromised as it is21:31
+perlDreamersince the last digit is guaranteed to be one of 4 characters21:31
@preactionyes, from 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% to 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%21:31
Haargit's 128 bits of 'randomness'21:33
+perlDreamerI know that it's not really random, maybe uniqueness would be a better word21:33
Haargthe config file makes sense as something to use, but it could maybe use the hostname if that isn't available21:34
@preactiona uuid4 would be fine. if anyone gets a collision, i'll buy you a new house21:34
+perlDreameris that a promise?21:36
+perlDreamerI know where the paper is on how to bust MD521:36
+perlDreamerI figure it's only a couple of weeks worth of work21:36
+perlDreamerand SHA1 isn't too far behind21:37
@preactionnothing can protect against malice21:37
Haarguuid 4 is just random numbers right?21:37
Haargand we don't have a good random seed really21:37
Haargand i don't remember if perl/mod_perl re-seeds on fork21:38
+perlDreameror plack?21:38
@preactionwe're spending an awful lot of time discussing something that has a snowball's chance in hell of actually being a problem21:39
Haargwell, anything plack would just do whatever perl fork does21:39
Haargif the seed isn't reset it would be pretty easy for it to happen21:39
Haargin fact it would be very likely to happen21:39
+perlDreamerthe number sequence is repeatable21:40
@scrottieI've got a good random number generator ya'll can use =)21:40
Haargsha1/md5 doesn't really factor into the guids because all they are really being used for is to turn the input into something that is always 128bits21:42
+perlDreameralways 128bits, and try to make it unique globally, across sites, servers and so on21:43
Haargbut the uniqueness doesn't come from the hash21:44
Haargit comes from the input21:44
Haargall it's doing in our case is making the output the right length21:44
+perlDreamerso what if we just switched to using Data::UUID?21:45
Haargwhich uuid version?21:45
+perlDreameraccording to the docs for that module, it makes v3 UUIDs21:47
+perlDreamerit just comes to mind because the author is RJBS21:48
+perlDreamerI'm just saying that maybe we should use a standard module to do it21:48
Haarguuid3 needs input21:48
+perlDreamerI'm not sure where the input comes from21:49
+perlDreamerit's in the XS source21:49
+perlDreamerStevan Little gives it 5 starts21:50
+perlDreamerit has 3 open bugs, most dealing with either windows, or the docs21:50
+perlDreamerseems to take at least processID, and system time21:51
+perlDreameruses MD521:51
@scrottieseriously, I've got some fun sh%t.21:52
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Haargthat's probably the best way to go.  i was just wary of things just using a random source that was unknown.21:58
Haargsubstr(Data::UUID->new->create_b64, 0, -2)21:58
* perlDreamer will go to lunch and wait for preaction's feedback22:00
+perlDreamersounds good to me though22:01
+perlDreamerand do we want to wrap it/extend it, or just make everyone use it when you want an id?22:02
+perlDreamerI think I favor extending it, for backwards compatibility22:02
Haargyou mean provide $session->id->whatever?22:02
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Haargseems to work22:20
Haargif fork should be used instead someone else can work on that22:20
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@preactioni would say for now provide session->id->* and deprecate them all. we can use UUID when appropriate and most people should be using our APIs for everything important anyway (and when we move to an ORM, everything ever)22:49
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+perlDreamerHaarg, preaction: could y'all try running this and pasting the output back? http://gist.github.com/70582500:47
+perlDreamerit looks like it's counting00:48
+perlDreamerreally weird that only the top 3 characters are changing00:49
Haargit is00:49
Haargit's a v1 uuid00:49
Haargthey are based on the mac address and the time00:50
+perlDreamerit's odd, the docs for 1.217 says they're v3 UUIDs00:51
+perlDreamerbut I only have 1.215 installed00:52
Haargv3 uuids need input00:52
Haargit makes v1 uuids if you don't give it anything00:52
Haargwe could probably go with v4 uuids and have it work00:52
Haargif we wanted random00:52
+perlDreamerunique should be good enough?00:53
Haargdoesn't really matter to me much.  UUID::Tiny is probably the simplest bet for v4 uuids00:54
Haargalthough you'd have to handle the base64 encoding00:54
+perlDreamerwe do that now00:56
+perlDreamerwe'd just be replacing 1 line of perl00:56
@preactionso i don't want to try to fix these tests, as they all succeed individually, but i don't want to saddle anyone else. i need to move on. should i just branch off, reset to remote/upstream and do something else?01:05
+perlDreamerin 8 branch, there are only 3 failing tests01:05
+perlDreamerboth of which fail due to WebGUI::Fork01:05
@preactionand the last is EMSSubmission.t01:06
+perlDreamerCopyBranch, AssetExportHtml and VersionTag.t01:06
+perlDreamerEMSSubmission.t has failed (and will fail) for months01:06
+perlDreameras with POD.t01:06
+perlDreamerIf you have tests other than those that are failing, they need to be fixed01:06
@preactionall the other ones i have failing are due to bad cleanup in previous scripts01:06
@preactionthey run clean when run immediately after a reset01:07
+perlDreamerso why did they stop cleaning up?01:07
@preactioni can't tell with the Admin.t one, i'm thinking of making the session table update not happen if request doesn't exist, but that sounds evil01:07
+perlDreamervery evil01:07
+perlDreamerhow 'bout this01:08
+perlDreamerI need to take a break01:08
+perlDreamerbetween the two of us, we should be able to figure out why Admin.t isn't cleaning up01:08
@preactioni just merged your varless, i'll re-run the whole suite again with -rv and DEBUG01:08
+perlDreamersounds good01:09
+perlDreamerAdmin.t doesn't leak for me in WebGUI 801:30
+perlDreamerwhat's it leaking in your branch?01:30
@preactionwtf it stopped leaking01:31
+perlDreamerthe leak must have gotten plugged up01:31
+perlDreamerdoes that fix all the problems?01:32
@preactionAsset/Asset.t leaks 6 assets, but that's obviously from the addRevision changes. i'm going in to remove all the tag stuff from tests01:32
@preactionif i were to add an API to get a test asset to add stuff to and will automatically purge itself, should i call it WebGUI::Test->asset(props)?01:33
+perlDreamereh, I thought about that01:34
+perlDreamerlike for users, groups, etc01:34
+perlDreamerbut you'd have to wrap so much01:34
+perlDreamerand, does it need a parent?01:35
@preactionyou'd use asset to get an asset to add things to01:35
+perlDreameris the asset automatically committed?01:35
@preactionit's just a safe location to add stuff to test, and if that asset gets purged, the entire branch under it gets purged01:35
@preactionit isn't part of a tag01:35
@preactionby default it would just make a layout in the import node. but you could pass any properties to make any kind of asset you want01:36
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+perlDreamerif I did that, I would call it get_asset01:38
+perlDreamerbut plain asset is good, too01:38
+perlDreamerI like get_asset better because it makes it clear that you can't assign to it01:39
@preactionbut you could assign to it. why make a layout when you know you need a collab?01:39
+perlDreamerI assign to it, like WebGUI::Test->asset($asset)01:40
+perlDreamerinstead of $props01:40
+perlDreamernow you have to care whether it's an object, or a hashref01:40
@preactioneh, addChild would sort that out right quick01:40
+perlDreameryes, by dying :)01:40
@preactioni found my problem: the leak is printed in the log before the output of the test, not after01:48
@preactionso it's assetClipboard leaking for me, not Admin01:49
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+perlDreamerit's not leaking for me in 801:49
@preactionit was because of my changes01:50
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdb1ee99 / lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm : Don't use the deprecated methods in the core. - http://bit.ly/aBxpwb01:52
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9a1c82f / lib/WebGUI/International.pm : Remove deprecated user methods from International - http://bit.ly/c2ryvi01:52
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rae48e75 / lib/WebGUI/DateTime.pm : Remove profileField method from DateTime. - http://bit.ly/coLkvP01:52
@preaction<3 testing full suite problems not apparent in single-test problems. run the entire suite again and again and again and again!01:55
+perlDreameryeah, but so slow...02:02
+perlDreamerwhy do you have to do that?02:02
+perlDreamerif you know the leaky test02:02
+perlDreamerthen you just run it with DEBUG=102:02
+perlDreamermap ,t :!env WEBGUI_LIVE=1 WEBGUI_TEST_DEBUG=1 CODE_COP=1 perl % > foo 2>&1^M02:03
+perlDreamerput that into your .vimrc, preaction02:03
+perlDreamerand you'll always DEBUG for a single test02:03
@preactionit's leaky tests causing failures in other tests, so i don't know which leaky test is causing which problem, so i have to investigate problems02:04
+perlDreamerhm, but the last full run that you did has every leaky test in it02:05
+perlDreamerand this will help you find them all02:08
+perlDreamerack '(?:^# \w+\s*:\s*\d+\s*.delta)|(?:^\S+?\.t)' proven | less02:08
+perlDreamerit will print out test names02:08
+perlDreamerand leak output02:08
+perlDreamerwe should really identify it more clearly02:08
+perlDreamerto simplify that regexp02:08
+perlDreamerbut, oh well02:08
+perlDreamerhm, WikiMaster is leaking 2 groups...02:09
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r59c03b5 / (41 files in 16 dirs): Change occurances of user->profileField to user->get - http://bit.ly/96spHe02:12
+perlDreamerthat will silence a bunch of deprecation warnings02:15
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8255b69 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove more deprecated uses of profileField. - http://bit.ly/clRkZg02:17
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@preactionwhy do we have the additional arguments in addChild/addRevision for the ID? why can't the ID be specified in the properties, or one generated?02:44
@preactionand skipNotification is a property of assets with notification, why the extra thing way at the end?02:54
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+perlDreamerpreaction: You'd have to ask The Designer03:16
+perlDreamerremember, that option arguments to subs were a recent invention03:16
@preactioni know, just wondering if anyone remembered why we did it that way instead of another03:17
+perlDreamerIMO: assetId should be in the properties03:17
+perlDreamerand, re skipNotification, I think that it may have dual use03:18
+perlDreamerhm, it would appear that subsciption groups are not being cleaned up on purge...03:22
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CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re03bb22 / lib/WebGUI/Wizard/Setup.pm : More deprecation fixes. - http://bit.ly/9cEPEQ05:41
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carograyhey bartjol: you there?13:01
+bartjolcarogray: yeah13:01
carograyquick ?13:02
+bartjolwell, I'm forced to go to lunch now13:02
carograycan you refer or call one snippet from another?13:02
carograystomach forcing you13:02
+bartjolno, martin13:02
+bartjoland joeri13:02
+bartjolbut you should be able13:02
+bartjolto do that13:02
carograyoh yes..13:03
carograyjust wasn't sure if it would work, kind of like difficult to make a shortcut to a shortcut 13:03
carograygo enjoy lunch13:03
carograylet me know what you had when you get back:)13:03
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+bartjoloh, just bread and milk13:39
carograyis this a typical lunch for you?13:40
+bartjolbut snippets are just code13:40
+bartjolmainly dutch habit I suppose13:40
carograyyes, I know snippets are just code. I realized after I did it, that really it wouldn't work.13:40
+bartjolwell, depends on what you are trying to do13:41
carograyI forgot our header which is a snippet we call from all of our English page style layouts is actually in the body of the page itself13:41
carograyit's a javascript for google analytics I wanted to put one place and then have all the page style layouts which already call the header snippet, or footer snippet to be able to get it without having to paste it into each one13:42
carograyin the end I just stuck it into all of the page style layouts anyway.13:42
+bartjolyou can still do it with a snippet13:43
carograybut after the </body> before the </html> like whoever at the WUC 2009 suggested13:43
+bartjolbut you have to call it somehwere13:43
+bartjoloh, I don't recall that13:43
carograyyes I did do it with a snippet, just had to put the call to the snippet into each page style layout13:43
+bartjolwell, still not to bad13:44
carograyyes I cannot remember his name, I think it was at the WUC it was all about helping pages load as quickly as possible13:44
carograya session on it, you may not have attended that session.13:44
+bartjoloh, wasn't that patrick?13:44
carograySo now I put all of my .js at the very end of the page.... ..13:44
+bartjolfor some js that doesn't work unfortunately I believe13:45
carograyyou know I really cannot remember who did it it may well have been Patrick - most of what he talked about Patrick that is went way over my head13:45
carograyJa I expect not, but every time I put in a .js I try it to see. I don't actually use that much at all.13:45
+bartjolyeah, the guy is smart, but pretty sure he gave a presentation about that13:45
carograywell that's probably where I heard 13:46
carograyHow is your language stuff coming along?13:46
carograyI just started trying something new thinking I was so clever, but realized it isn't that great after all.13:46
+bartjolwell my language stuff is finished (as far as I will go)13:48
+bartjolit is implemented since 7.813:48
carograyI create one language box on the English page with links to all of the other languages for that page in the article, but the html is commented out. 13:48
carograyOH yes, that was patrick13:48
carograyis he the same patspam in australia?13:48
+bartjolwell, he live in New York now13:48
+bartjolbut it's the very same13:49
carograystill working for Australian company though or did he change companies?13:49
+bartjolbut for conetnt in different areas the solution is still not ideal13:49
+bartjolhe works for google now13:49
carograywow - that doesn't surprise me at all13:50
carograyit kind of validates that he is in fact as brilliant as he appeared to be13:50
+bartjolhe went there mostly to go live with his girlfriend13:50
carograyoh I love that13:50
carograywhat's she do - think we shouldn't be gossiping like this?13:50
+bartjolbut on the language box, can you expand?13:51
carograyah yes..13:51
+bartjolhe can read it in the logs13:51
carograyright thought so13:51
carograyso language box..13:51
+bartjolcan I see it somewhere?13:51
+bartjoland you are trying to go to defiirent content areas, or changing webgui language?13:52
carograythen I thought instead of making 6 copies of each language box and copying and pasting the same stuff but different languages commented out, i would just make shortcuts and then use the overrides in the different languages13:52
carograygo to differen content areas13:52
+bartjolwhat version are you running?13:53
carograyfor example http://www.masslegalhelp.org/housing/dv/vawa-federal-public-housing13:53
carograyumm  7.7.2113:54
carograyfor some reason I thought we had upgraded to .3513:54
carograybut it doesn't seem to be the case13:54
+bartjolhow do you see it exactly, via the page info?13:55
carograydon't understand your question13:55
+bartjolbecause that can be just hardcoded in the template13:56
+bartjolhow you get your version13:56
carograyoh.. your asking me about version13:56
carograyyes, 13:56
carograyview source13:56
carograybut I am pretty sure it's not hard coded into template(s)13:56
+bartjolok, go to the admin console and choose statistics13:56
+bartjolthere you get the real version13:57
carogray<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">13:57
carogray  <head>13:57
carogray  <title>^Page(title); - <tmpl_var session.setting.companyName></title>13:57
carogray<link href="^/;mlh-shared/snippets/global.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet"></link>13:57
+bartjolthat is also fakeable, but it costs much more effort, and you would be aware13:57
carogray<script type="text/javascript" src="^/;global.js"></script>13:57
carogray  <tmpl_var head.tags>13:57
carogray  </head>13:57
+bartjolwhat foul language :)13:58
carograyWebGUI Build Version:7.7.21-stableLatest version available:7.9.18-stable13:58
carograyyes I know, sorry13:58
carograymouse is broken and fingers getting itchy using touch pad13:59
+bartjolok, so there are not too many options from webgui itself13:59
carograyif we were running more recent versions there would be webgui options?13:59
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+bartjolwell, you might also be able to use some other languages as session language (not all that you need, but the webgui language files are not really what we need14:00
+bartjolit is the possibility to set a scratch variable in the session and be able to detect that14:01
+bartjolif messages from webgui don't exist, you'll just get english14:01
carograyyou are a couple of steps beyond what I know here, I am just remembering what you said about recognizing other languages from where they are in the directory structure.. or at least that's what I understood you to mean when you explained your ideas to me last year.14:02
+bartjolwell, there are different ways :)14:03
+bartjolbut that is indeed the other option I developed, but too hard to use to get it into the core14:04
carograywith my shortcuts solution it still means I have to go into each language box and edit, but there is still less opportunity for mistakes if the only thing I am editing is commenting in and out and one language box has all of the languages, titles and urls in one place.14:04
carograyoh my goodness it's already light out here!14:06
carograynow I have to go feed all the critters and get  back to work and not keep you from yours any longer. Thanks for chat14:06
+bartjolwell if you need something, you know where to find me14:07
carograyja, thanks - what is danke in dutch?14:07
+bartjolmmm, you have something with capital q's14:08
carograyyes, itchy little finger keeps falling on it.14:08
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SquOnkFYI, webgui 7.9.18 is back into Debian Sid14:15
SquOnkIt can be installed on Squeeze by means of pinning (I'll update the WiKi page later)14:16
SquOnkThis is the last webgui package that will have all languages bundled together. Starting from 7.9.19-1, webgui will have English only, but you'll be able to install webgui-i18n-es, webgui-i18n-de and webgui-i18n-du14:17
+bartjolwe got rid of the GNU/GPL problems?14:17
SquOnk...to save space :-)14:17
SquOnkbartjol: Not completely, but almost there.14:17
SquOnkbartjol: The .swf issue is still there, but since webgui is not targeted for Squeeze, the bug can be open14:18
SquOnkWhat will be the fifth translation bundled? Who's "winning", so to speak? :-)14:19
+bartjolpolish is quite far14:20
+bartjolover 50%14:20
+bartjolhow will that work during upgrades? I don't suppose aptitude does support webgui updates14:23
SquOnkbartjol: Indeed it does14:24
SquOnkbartjol: If you are upgrading from 7.x.y to 7.x.z, z > y, it runs the upgrade scripts for you.14:25
SquOnkbartjol: Major upgrades are a WIP. The package will check if you're upgrading from an upgradeable version before doing it, or it will let you know what to do.14:25
+bartjolok, and does it check perl environment?14:26
+bartjolmaybe I should replace my installl by the bedian package14:27
SquOnkbartjol: You mean for needed dependencies? The package won't install unless all dependencies are Debian-provided.14:27
+bartjoldebian, excuse me14:27
SquOnkbartjol: The 7.9.18 package took this long because I was waiting for libmonkey-patch-perl to make it into Sid :-)14:27
+bartjolok, so running testEnvironmnet is still needed14:27
SquOnkbartjol: Only if you want to double check my work :-)14:28
SquOnkbartjol: The Debian package states the needed dependencies, aptitude brings them in.14:28
+bartjolI mostly switched to manual upgrade, because of gotcha's14:28
SquOnkbartjol: Everytime WebGUI adds a new dependency, I add it to the package dependency list and if it wasn't in Debian before, I make that happen too.14:29
+bartjolvery nice14:29
SquOnkbartjol: Another thing I'm going to work on is having Debian's tinymce package have at least spanish, german and dutch translations...14:31
SquOnkbartjol: ...so the webgui package can count on them being there :-)14:31
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+bartjolalso very cool, but I thought those were included in the source of webgui14:37
SquOnkbartjol: Even if they were, Debian does not allow wholesaling, meaning that I have to strip WebGUI's sources taking out YUI and TinyMCE, and have the package use their Debian packages instead.14:39
+bartjolwhoa, that packaging is more work than I thought14:40
+bartjolprolly especially the first time14:40
SquOnkbartjol: Indeed14:56
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+bartjolso it is16:50
SDuensinGood thing, too.  Work is sucking my will to live.16:51
+bartjoltime for other work?16:51
SDuensinHas been since I started here.16:53
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+bartjolhowdy perlDreamer18:14
+perlDreamerhow are things back east?18:14
+bartjolgood, tonight menu deciding for a xhristmas dinner\18:15
+bartjolwhere I hsall be sous-chef18:15
+perlDreamerThat's tempting enough to ask for an invitation18:15
+perlDreamerI've had your cooking before, and it's awesome18:16
+bartjolmainly cutting vegetables and trying to translate the chefs shouting to normal, polite requests18:16
+perlDreamerthat's kind of what I do for WebGUI :)18:16
+bartjolwell, it is open, you can buy tickets18:16
+bartjolindeed it is18:17
+perlDreamerhm, plane fare to The Netherlands18:17
+perlDreamerare there discounts for visiting dignataries?18:17
+bartjolthe dinner itself will only be 15 euro's I believe18:17
+perlDreamerthat's very reasonable for dinner18:17
+bartjolwell, I can inform you on the menu, after that you can decide that you WILL come18:18
+bartjolit is one organised by that youth society18:18
+perlDreamerhm, after my anniversary party I'm not sure I could afford it all18:18
+perlDreamertoday marks the 2 year anniversary of PerlDreamer Consulting18:20
+bartjolaah, congratulations18:20
+bartjoland how are you celebrating18:24
+bartjolyou could have hired me as cook18:24
+perlDreameryou'd fly out to Portland?18:25
+perlDreamerwell, there are additional incentives to coming to Portland18:25
+perlDreamerwe have more breweries than Madison18:25
+perlDreamerbut we don't have Sarah or JT18:25
+perlDreamerthe seafood is much more fresh in Portland18:25
+perlDreamerand we have lots of cows and cheese18:25
+bartjolwell the price of hiring me iincludes the ticket fare18:26
+bartjolthe rest does sounds good18:26
+bartjolexcept the lack of JT and Sarah of course18:27
+perlDreamerI've tried to get them to mvoe18:28
+perlDreamerJT is mad for electric cars18:28
+perlDreamerand we're getting a whole fleet of them in Portland18:28
+perlDreameralong with charging stations18:28
+bartjolah, cool, I saw those things in France18:32
@khennElectric cars?18:54
@khennwhat kind?18:54
@khennthe 25mph things?18:54
+perlDreamerNissan Leafs18:54
+perlDreameroh no, they go faster than 25 mph18:54
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r68638c2 / lib/WebGUI/Wizard/Setup.pm : Fix incorrect translation of $user->profileField to $user->get. ProfileField was a mutator, not just an accessor. - http://bit.ly/a4RmY418:54
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd02472c / (lib/WebGUI/Session.pm lib/WebGUI/Session/Id.pm): Change Session::ID to no longer need a session. Instead, you pass it a seed for salting the hash generation. - http://bit.ly/bbhXca18:54
+perlDreamerkhenn, I wouldn't mind one of the 25 mph cars, since most of the things I drive to on a weekly basis are all on surface streets and quite close to home19:04
@khennI just got a Prius19:05
@khennand though 46-48 mpg is good19:05
@khennI'd rather not pay for gas at all =)19:05
+perlDreamerthere are ways to hack them to all electrical19:08
+perlDreamerand to add more/better batteries19:08
+perlDreamerbut you'll void your warranty doing it19:08
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@khennand you probably need some knowledge and general interest in cars19:17
@khennneither of which I have19:17
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@preactionhm... apparently a long time ago I left a TODO test for a feature for the Redirect asset to pass on query parameters in the redirect...20:55
@preactioni like the idea. i should add more TODO tests for features I want to the core WebGUI20:55
@preactionwhich reminds me! perlDreamer whatever became of the Asset Diff branch?20:55
@preactiontee hee hee i'm deleting code, lots of code, lots and lots and lots of code, tee hee hee!21:00
@preaction3800 lines of test results verified and fixed. 5000 to go21:38
@preactionfun fact: a full test run with debug and verbose is over 20,000 lines of output21:38
@preactionwe should stick more of these in to xt/, or is xt not to be used for release test runs?21:40
+perlDreamerxt should be used for release tests21:40
+perlDreamerno bad template21:40
+perlDreamerno missing i18n21:40
+perlDreamerno bad POD21:40
+perlDreamerhowever, end users shouldn't have to run tests21:41
@preactionright, but i think t/ is for "development tests", you run often while developing. xt is for "release tests", you run once when you're ready to commit to make sure your code is up to standards21:41
@preactionbut then i'm probably wrong21:42
+perlDreamerwithout meaning offense to other developers, but every commit should pass development tests21:42
+perlDreamerbecause I'm not writing POD for 120 modules again21:42
@preactionyes, before you commit you should pass both t/ and xt/21:42
+perlDreamerah, but if they have to remember to _run_ both...?21:42
@preactionbut t/ is for while you're developing, you can run them often to make sure you're not breaking stuff21:43
@preactionxt is like our CODE_COP21:43
@preactionwell, they don't run CODE_COP as it is21:43
@preactiondamned social problems that can't be solved by technical means...21:43
+perlDreamerand the CODE_COP tests take 40 minutes to run21:43
+perlDreameryay, one less leaky test in the world!21:51
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rcd0986e / t/Exception/app.t : Fix session leak from this test. - http://bit.ly/9L1Ssz21:51
@preactioncrap... i fixed that too :(21:52
@preactioni'm fixing every leak ever! ;)21:52
+perlDreamerhow did you fix it?21:52
@preactionwell, no, it's just gonna conflict21:52
+perlDreamerYou da man!21:52
+perlDreamerno it won't21:52
+perlDreamerI'll rollback my commit21:52
@preactionno worries21:52
+perlDreamerbut, please assign that ticket to yourself so I don't do it again ;)21:52
@preactionit's not a big deal21:52
@preactionit's not that ticket though, it's addRevision. i don't know what leaks are causing problems21:53
@preaction4888 lines of output to go...21:53
@preaction120 lines in 15 minutes... sigh...21:53
+perlDreameraren't you using that ack thing I sent yesterday to isolate the leaks?21:54
@preactionno, it didn't work21:54
+perlDreamerthat's what it prints out for me21:55
+perlDreamerso, prove -rm --verbose t | ack '(?:^# \w+\s*:\s*\d+\s*.delta)|(?:^\S+?\.t)'22:01
+perlDreameror capture and post process22:01
+perlDreamerand this could be my favorite22:01
+perlDreamerprove -rm --verbose t | tee proven | ack '(?:^# \w+\s*:\s*\d+\s*.delta)|(?:^\S+?\.t)'22:01
+perlDreamerso you just get a status and leaks on STDOUT22:02
* perlDreamer goes to grab some chow22:02
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+perlDreamerpreaction: maybe it'd be easier for you to say what you hate about the Icon API, instead of going through pre-development discovery23:16
+perlDreamerI'm not overly fond of it either, because it's not DRY23:17
@preactioni hate that edit() cut() and etc... are individual methods23:17
+perlDreamerbut I suspect you have other concerns than that23:17
+perlDreamerso we'd have 12 Packages that have to know the icon and i18n label for Edit?23:17
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@preaction1500 lines of test output to go. i've touched 70% of the test scripts in WebGUI...01:57
@preaction419 to go! yay!02:01
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CIA-74webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * re71e955 / (lib/WebGUI/Session/Id.pm t/Session/Id.t lib/WebGUI/GUID.pm): add WebGUI::GUID and make WebGUI::Session::Id a wrapper around that - http://bit.ly/cUMzXY02:33
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elninoanyone awake?06:16
elninowhen the admin guide says "apache config" file, they mean the modproxy.conf files, right?06:18
elninowhen do you ever modify the modproxy.conf files?06:18
elninoand last question of the evening, in regards to passthruurls, what was the webgui conf file directive called that you can write/set to different handlers for passthruurls? I'm not seeing it in the admin guide. Thanks!06:21
@preactionit may mean the .modproxy file, it may mean the .modperl file06:22
@preactionand you're thinking urlHandlers i think06:22
elninook. and yes! it is. thanks.06:22
elninohave a good night preaction. Thanks for being up and awake!06:23
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CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb640216 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Remove URL handlers from config files, and from the default config file. Add a stub to the migration notes that URLHandlers are now done as Plack Middleware. - http://bit.ly/aCPRc403:26
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb830bd8 / docs/migration.txt : Add documentation about the removal of WebGUI::Session::Var and how to handle migration. - http://bit.ly/cU1jwI03:37
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CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re5adc07 / (27 files in 16 dirs): Remove getStatus and setStatus in Session::Http, and replace them with status, from $session->status. - http://bit.ly/aLGmkN07:12
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+perlDreamerman, I love refactoring code!07:45
+perlDreamerit's just awesome07:45
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CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfd8f03a / (52 files in 20 dirs): Change getMimeType and setMimeType to response->content_type. - http://bit.ly/c3YD9k08:36
+perlDreamerpreaction, Haarg: I'm looking at the task to eliminate Session->Http, and it looks to me like content chunking is basically dead.08:54
+perlDreamerthere's no way to push the headers out early, since we ship back a response object to Plack08:54
+perlDreamerThis would have big implications to the design of Assets in 8, and could lead to getting rid of prepareView08:55
+perlDreamerdoes that sound right to y'all?08:55
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SDuensinHey gang.16:33
plainhaohappy thanksgiving monday16:37
SDuensinIt won't be truly happy until Thursday.  :-/16:39
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CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8b6bbdb / (9 files in 4 dirs): Remove setFilename, getFilename from Session::Http, and use Plack::Response methods instead. - http://bit.ly/anXrC018:07
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+perlDreamerhey, sbaur!18:17
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sbaurhi perldreamer!18:17
sbauri figured I'd start lurking, maybe i'd learn something :)18:18
+perlDreamerlurk away ;)18:18
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* SDuensin is good at lurking18:19
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+perlDreamerdang, I think streaming file downloads are broken in WebGUI 818:26
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HaargperlDreamer, having content chunking and allowing headers to be set may not be possible without changing the program flow19:22
+perlDreamerI know19:22
+perlDreamerI don't think losing content chunking is necessarily a bad thing19:22
+perlDreamerbecause it makes assets easier to handle19:22
+perlDreamerno more prepareView :)19:23
+perlDreamerno more worries about JS and CSS in the body of the content19:24
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r995b04e / (8 files in 6 dirs): Remove getRedirectLocation and setRedirectLocation from Session::Http - http://bit.ly/dnqqzM19:29
+perlDreamerwell, there's not too much left in Session::Http anymore19:33
Haargwe could possibly make something where you can call ->sendHeader (or something like it) and pass in a subref19:37
Haargand inside that you would do chunking stuff19:38
Haargwhich would make it relatively easy to adapt existing code19:38
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+perlDreamerHaarg, you think I might be premature about thinking about getting rid of prepareView?19:51
Haargas annoying as content chunking is, i'm not sure we want to remove it19:51
+perlDreamergut feel, backwards compat, or something else?19:52
CIA-74webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re7fcf33 / (5 files in 4 dirs): Move ifModifiedSince into WebGUI::Session::Request - http://bit.ly/bLxbUY19:54
Haargit does improve the user experience somewhat19:54
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+perlDreamerwell as it stands now, content chunking doesn't work at all20:09
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+perlDreamerI think20:10
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Haargdid the docs/testing/prepreq changes get done for WebGUI::GUID?23:34
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