WebGUI irc logs from: 2010-11.log

--- Log opened Mon Nov 01 00:00:12 2010
@preaction	http://github.com/frodwith/helpdesk-rewrite <- does a lot more sane things	00:00
@preaction	actually, i lied, it moved to AssetCollateral, which i now think is the wrong thing to do	00:01
Getty	ah i see	00:01
Getty	IIIIIHHHHH i see there HTML code in the .pm! AAAHHH ;)	00:01
@preaction	it's not for core consumption	00:01
@preaction	yet	00:01
@preaction	anyway, the dispatch() stuff added in 7.9 is one step in getting away from "only assets have URLs". with proper dispatch method, you could create an MVC framework for assets	00:03
@preaction	WebGUI::CRUD will be phased out for a better ORM, haven't decided which one yet	00:03
@preaction	mysql's fulltext search will be phased out for a Sphinx-based solution	00:03
@preaction	among other things during the 8.x cycle	00:03
Getty	there is no other choice for a good ORM than DBIx::Class	00:04
Getty	Rose, Fey, they all are bad designed and bad coded	00:04
Getty	also DBIx::Class is based on tons of abstracted modules and concepts which are splitted existing on CPAN, so easy to replacable on requirement	00:04
@preaction	in short: nothing will escape my grasp in making WebGUI something useful	00:05
Getty	WebGUI is already now useful, IF you get the trick	00:05
Getty	i worked 1 day with WebGUI months ago when i tested it first	00:05
@preaction	i'd rather it not be a trick	00:05
Getty	and i hated it, from the very deep, saw it was too much overloaded and i was unable to get	00:06
Getty	but yesterday i tested it with "another point of view"	00:06
Getty	and then i saw it	00:06
@preaction	8 is far better so far, but there's more docs and more unravelling that will be going on as 8.x develops. lot of stuff is already deprecated in 8 and 8 isn't even released yet ;)	00:06
Getty	lol	00:07
Getty	i will get excited :)	00:07
@preaction	but yes, 8.x is where i evaluate how assets are made and what ORM to use	00:07
Getty	DBIx::Class ;) you have no choice ;)	00:07
Getty	you must see the massive team who works on it, there is even one guy that is nearly 24/7 just working on it	00:08
@preaction	i know, i've talked with most of them	00:08
@preaction	mst has expressed both love and hate for DBIC	00:08
Getty	so why you make it open? ;)	00:08
@preaction	things change	00:08
Getty	yeah but so far.... i dont see another option	00:08
Getty	Rose definitly not	00:08
Getty	Fey definitly not	00:08
@preaction	for example: JT thought that Amazon Simple DB (a No-SQL database) would be oodles better for his latest project	00:08
Getty	IRGS!!!!	00:09
* Getty runs		00:09
@preaction	turns out that mysql is hugely faster	00:09
Getty	of course	00:09
Getty	NoSQL is just for... dont know..... "flexible CMS" which have no decent structure	00:09
@preaction	i personally love the nosql movement, i mean, anyone else remember BDB?	00:09
Getty	but WebGUI is rocksolid, it doesnt need a flexible base	00:09
@preaction	nosql has. no. purpose.	00:09
Getty	i tried the nosql	00:09
Getty	i was a fan	00:09
Getty	i worked with it	00:09
Getty	and then was pissed	00:09
Getty	every second	00:09
@preaction	and BDB is already far faster than existing nosql implementations :p	00:09
Getty	now i only work with DBIx::Class	00:10
Getty	and make nice tables	00:10
Getty	make it clean and straight	00:10
Getty	and switched to postgresql on that	00:10
Getty	postgresql++	00:10
Getty	postgresql++	00:10
Getty	its soooooooooooooooooo cool to make tables with it	00:10
@preaction	that's another reason why i want an ORM	00:10
Getty	on postgresql you just have: text, int.... i mean	00:10
Getty	you dont need to thing "varchar? or text? if varchar how many chars?"	00:11
Getty	its all pointless on postgresql	00:11
Getty	you just make "text" always, its all the same in postgresql	00:11
@preaction	well, the ORM would handle that SQL translation for me, instead of writing MySQL, or PostgreSQL, or MSSQL, or whatever	00:11
Getty	exactly	00:11
Getty	thats why i asked	00:11
Getty	so that i can use postgresql	00:11
Getty	i hate mysql	00:11
@preaction	eh, it's stupid, but it's damn fast	00:11
Getty	postgresql is faster, it was not faster some time ago, but its faster definitly since 7.x	00:12
@preaction	funny enough, a bunch of this WebGUIx code is now exactly in WebGUI 8	00:15
@preaction	with different names perhaps, but the same basic code	00:15
@preaction	and there's a bunch more going in, the www_add / www_addSave, and a bunch of changes to how VersionTag works	00:16
Getty	so WebGUI 8 is Moose?	00:16
@preaction	yes	00:16
Getty	:D	00:16
Getty	<wank>	00:16
@preaction	http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/tree/WebGUI8	00:16
@preaction	Plack/PSGI too	00:16
Getty	<morewank>	00:17
@preaction	and you should check out the AC in 8, you'll probably like it a lot more	00:17
Getty	AC?	00:17
@preaction	Admin Console	00:17
Getty	ah ok	00:17
Getty	yeah i guess	00:17
Getty	cause i dont like the 7.x one ;)	00:17
Getty	i mean its "ok"	00:17
Getty	its "usable"	00:18
Getty	but.... i hate it	00:18
Getty	what i hate most is the "workflow" of the interface (so not the workflow feature)	00:18
@preaction	the 8 AC is pretty, and far more extensible	00:18
Getty	lets say i edit an asset, how i come back to the asset editor?	00:18
@preaction	and much easier to use	00:18
@preaction	not as easy as i'd like, but webgui is not wordpress or mediawiki. easier to write admin interfaces when you don't have to do everything	00:19
@preaction	but as the applications we have get respecced and fixed during 8.x, things will change	00:19
Getty	dont say those words	00:19
Getty	wordpress	00:19
Getty	or mediawiki	00:19
Getty	its like comparing webgui with crap	00:19
@preaction	they are the top of their class for a reason	00:19
Getty	not really	00:19
Getty	wordpress developer would love to switch to perl	00:19
Getty	but they cant cause there is no standard at all	00:20
Getty	all wordpress plugins are doing some crap directly to the core	00:20
Getty	its just a big mess that works by random	00:20
@preaction	php is a glorified templating language, yes, and i've worked on wordpress "templates"	00:20
Getty	php is shit, 13 years wasting my time with it	00:20
Getty	i dont wanna look back even	00:20
@preaction	yes, but there are things we can learn from the UI and featureset of these programs	00:20
Getty	that for sure!	00:21
Getty	sadly	00:21
Getty	;)	00:21
Getty	its so crazy...	00:21
Getty	think about all that php coder making perl stuff	00:21
@preaction	drupal, for example, is another one at the top (or at least above webgui). why? i've never even used it, which is a problem for the PM of a CMS to never have used the competition	00:22
Getty	we would have a language so powerful...	00:22
Getty	Drupal suxx	00:22
Getty	so big time...	00:22
Getty	i used it	00:22
Getty	i dropped that project than and made my own CMS for this project	00:22
@preaction	i like their Taxonomy system thing	00:22
Getty	was faster then implementing the requirements in drupal	00:22
@preaction	i think i'm gonna steal that part	00:22
@preaction	i also want Alfresco's site network thing	00:22
Getty	oh! reminds me.....	00:23
Getty	if i have several hostnames for a webgui installation	00:23
Getty	i guess you dont redirect, right?	00:23
Getty	you just "accept them all"?	00:23
@preaction	they are all treated equally	00:23
Getty	yeah... SEO disaster ;)	00:23
Getty	i need a switch so that he redirects all "not the first one" to the first one 1:1	00:24
Getty	so if you access http://bla.de/blub it redirects to http://www.bla.de/blub	00:24
@preaction	use apache to do that	00:24
Getty	i dont use apache at all	00:24
Getty	i mean i could do it in webserver, no problem	00:24
@preaction	uh, webgui doesn't run under anything but mod_perl	00:24
Getty	oh??	00:25
Getty	dont shock me?	00:25
Getty	but that is dropped out in WebGUI 8? (i guess elsewhere Plack would be pointless)	00:25
@preaction	webgui 7.x runs under modperl2 only. 8.x is PSGI, and there you would write a PSGI file that would do the redirecting for you	00:25
Getty	i hate modperl so much	00:25
@preaction	welcome to the club	00:26
Getty	there is a funny bug in it	00:26
Getty	i dont know if its fixed	00:26
@preaction	mod_perl is the way to write apache modules in perl, nothing else	00:26
Getty	if you activate mod_perl in apache	00:26
Getty	no htaccess is parsed if the path of it is longer than 256 chars	00:26
@preaction	eh, htaccess is more horrible than mod_perl	00:26
Getty	yeah but it was funny	00:28
Getty	i needed mod_perl for a project which was based on it	00:28
Getty	and then a client called	00:28
Getty	that his protected area is suddenly open for everybody	00:28
@preaction	nice	00:29
Getty	that was my first contact with mod_perl	00:29
Getty	(pre-my-perl-time)	00:29
Getty	but its still a fight to explain people that mod_perl is not a solution for something	00:29
Getty	i cant even imagine what i would need with mod_perl, cause anything that a webserver should be able to is already there as apache module these days	00:30
Getty	(beside dynamic apache config)	00:30
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@preaction	being able to write Auth handlers and other stuff in Perl instead of C is nice	00:32
Getty	yeah but these days HTTP AUTH is already out of date anyway	00:32
Getty	it makes only tons of problem, is not cascadable anything is shit with it	00:32
@preaction	it's very useful when it comes to non-browser UAs	00:32
Getty	i only use it to protect not launched sites	00:32
Getty	yeah ok, but even that is these day not that complex	00:32
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SDuensin	Greetings.	15:38
+bartjol	ah, don't you have daylight savings?	15:39
SDuensin	Next week. :-)	15:39
CIA-74	webgui: Paul Driver master * r7219e21 / (28 files in 13 dirs): Merge branch 'fork' - http://bit.ly/bUKlw8	15:45
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+bartjol	howdy perlDreamer	16:59
+perlDreamer	hey, bartjol	17:00
+perlDreamer	how are things back east?	17:00
+bartjol	well, nice sailing yesterday	17:00
+perlDreamer	is Halloween a holiday that the Dutch observe?	17:00
+bartjol	I got a rope ober my ceiling to be able to pull electric wiring through	17:00
+bartjol	well, a bit	17:01
+bartjol	not very fanatic	17:01
+perlDreamer	I installed a new sink in the bathroom last week	17:01
+bartjol	but, to talk wg, I was wondering ehether you agreed with the bug status of http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11938	17:01
+bartjol	ooh, sinks	17:02
+perlDreamer	It is a bug, because there's no reason to remove that state since we didn't set it	17:02
+perlDreamer	however	17:02
+perlDreamer	using specialState is dangerous, since WebGUI uses it itself	17:02
+perlDreamer	so, I'm going to fix the bug because the script should do that	17:02
+perlDreamer	but you shouldn't either :)	17:02
+bartjol	be using it for other purposes?	17:03
+perlDreamer	you said that there was some custom code that used specialState	17:03
+bartjol	but, wehn I have a really special state	17:03
+bartjol	ok, we can make another setting, stuff stays similar	17:03
+bartjol	and settings aren't really included in API, so a bit floating	17:04
+perlDreamer	yes	17:04
+perlDreamer	it's doable, but risky	17:04
+perlDreamer	as was found out	17:04
+bartjol	by antother person than me?	17:04
+perlDreamer	I thought you were the other person, I must have misread the bug	17:06
+bartjol	ok, then I got it correct	17:06
+bartjol	well, trying strange stuff does lead to bug findings	17:06
+bartjol	btw, it is for webgui starter	17:07
+perlDreamer	cool!	17:14
+bartjol	to be able to block none-paying customers	17:18
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r85f1531 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/upgrade.pl): Don't delete the special state unless we set it. Fixes bug #11938 - http://bit.ly/bZj5RN	17:23
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+perlDreamer	bartjol, that's your patch in case you want it now	17:25
+perlDreamer	instead of tomorrow for the release	17:25
+bartjol	not in a hurry with it, but thank you very much, now I can compare it with my fix independantly	17:28
Rainy-D	Googled about surveys, wondered into the blog, finally found the webpage, poked at the wiki, I still don't understand what webGUI is supposed to be.	17:28
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rc41d898 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Moving changelog entry to correct version. - http://bit.ly/cWAXkR	17:29
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1c63a65 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/upgrade.pl): Don't delete the special state unless we set it. Fixes bug #11938 - http://bit.ly/9rzfGM	17:29
+bartjol	Rainy-D: simply said, it is a CMS	17:30
Rainy-D	And that is what?	17:31
+perlDreamer	Content Management System	17:31
+perlDreamer	it also has lots of applications built in	17:31
+perlDreamer	like a survey	17:31
+perlDreamer	Forum system	17:31
+perlDreamer	Calendar	17:31
+perlDreamer	Blog	17:31
+perlDreamer	CNN-like story submission and display system	17:31
Rainy-D	Ah, one of those.	17:31
+perlDreamer	Project Tracker	17:31
Rainy-D	I needed a survey for my thesis. Currently I'm poking at anything that says survey.	17:33
+perlDreamer	if all you want is a survey, it's a bit overkill, but it will work	17:33
Rainy-D	Yeah, overkill seems to be the case. But I can't do my survey on free accounts on the online survey makers, the questions limits are too low.	17:35
+perlDreamer	well, in that case maybe WebGUI is what you want	17:36
Rainy-D	Not as easy to set up maybe but seems to offer more options. I'm so bad at understanding the coding side so I hope UI is easy. Still, I have a month to decide while I form the questions.	17:38
Rainy-D	Besides, I'm gobbling up a bachelor's in IT, I should be able to figure things out eventually.	17:42
+perlDreamer	you know your way around a Unix-like command line shell/	17:42
+perlDreamer	?	17:42
Rainy-D	Some, I failed my unix course. And it isn't a required course so I never put enough effort into it.	17:43
Rainy-D	I know more dos-box than unix probably...	17:43
+perlDreamer	The simplest way to set up WebGUI is to buy a site from a hoster. That will run you anywhere from 10-20/month without support.	17:44
+perlDreamer	The next easiest option is to use the VMWare image, since it's fully configured from the get go	17:44
+perlDreamer	but you have to setup the image and handle the network config	17:44
+perlDreamer	but it's free	17:44
Rainy-D	Wonder if the school would let me set it up on their servers.	17:44
+perlDreamer	which school is it? They might already by using WebGUI	17:45
Rainy-D	Oulu University of Applied Sciences :D	17:45
Rainy-D	In Finland	17:45
+perlDreamer	hm, I'm not very familiar with the overseas users of WebGUI, but I know we have a Finnish member of the community.	17:46
+perlDreamer	it's worth checking into	17:46
Rainy-D	Yes. And we have several sorts of engineers and programmers on our campus so I can find someone eventually if I go this route.	17:47
Rainy-D	Hmm, your wiki is something interesting.	17:49
+perlDreamer	it's not as full featured like MediaWiki	17:49
+perlDreamer	but we like it :)	17:50
+bartjol	whoohoo, I got my fork up to date	17:50
Rainy-D	Too used to wikipedia like layout so navigation needs more tought put into it so I can poke around.	17:51
+bartjol	the content managers guide is available for download	17:53
+bartjol	that maybe gives you a first impression	17:53
+bartjol	also there are at leat3 demo sites	17:53
+bartjol	so you can get a peek	17:55
Rainy-D	Sightings page on the home page seems to have lots of examples.	17:56
+bartjol	that too, not sure how many examples of the survey are in those	18:02
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+bartjol	kathy, following a course again?	18:02
dreamersgirl	how'd you guess? :)	18:03
dreamersgirl	how's life, bartjol?	18:04
+bartjol	well, good, your husband only doesn fix the way I like to see them :P	18:05
dreamersgirl	what's he fixing?	18:05
+bartjol	a bug I reported	18:06
dreamersgirl	nice.	18:06
dreamersgirl	i hate bugs.	18:06
+perlDreamer	that bug is already fixed	18:08
+perlDreamer	now, I'm working on the wiring in Bart's new house	18:08
dreamersgirl	for the whole house or something specific?	18:10
+perlDreamer	just some stuff in the ceiling	18:11
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r04ec757 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make a new storage location when an Event is duplicated. Fixes bug #11937. - http://bit.ly/dd95M3	18:20
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * ra72c5b6 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make a new storage location when an Event is duplicated. Fixes bug #11937. - http://bit.ly/aGtZNG	18:20
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CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rd182f0f / (lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm t/Auth/WebGUI.t): add tests and convenience to Auth constructor - http://bit.ly/cI4SUy	19:18
@preaction	if i were to write a convenience method that will call a deprecated method and throw an info message to the log, where should I put it? WebGUI::Pluggable?	19:21
+perlDreamer	no, I'd put it in a one-off module	19:22
+perlDreamer	It doesn't belong in Pluggable	19:22
@preaction	but it will be used in a lot of places, and probably continually	19:22
+perlDreamer	but pluggable is for things that have to eval'ed, or use'd	19:23
+perlDreamer	it's the wrong idea	19:23
+perlDreamer	it's like putting motor oil in peanut butter	19:23
@preaction	yet it has methods like "instantiate" and "call"	19:23
+perlDreamer	yes, it tries to use those things, and evals them	19:23
+perlDreamer	has nothing to do with deprecation	19:23
@preaction	the only "eval" part is the require, call and instantiate then does other magic (in my opinion, poorly, by hiding a standard Perl idiom)	19:25
scrottie	WebGUI::Object::Attribute::Future::Role::Pluggable::Mixin::Eval::Log::Deprecate::Handler::Manager::Controller::Barf.	19:26
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf2ac0bc / (3 files in 3 dirs): Shortcut uses the wrong date for the overridden getContentLastModified. Fixes bug #11935. - http://bit.ly/awXpi8	19:27
scrottie	and name all of the variables $data1, $data2, $data3, etc.	19:27
@preaction	but if not there, then where?	19:27
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Deprecated	19:27
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * re7d8b76 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Shortcut uses the wrong date for the overridden getContentLastModified. Fixes bug #11935. - http://bit.ly/bxhT5q	19:27
+perlDreamer	then, we can find out which modules have deprecated methods easily	19:27
@preaction	won't be that easy. the Deprecated will be used by the caller, not by the module with the deprecated method	19:28
@preaction	because the custom plugin won't have that deprecated warning, and it may or may not call the superclass method	19:28
@preaction	which is why i thought WebGUI pluggable, since WebGUI::Pluggable->call() is what is being used to call the plugin's method anyway	19:29
+perlDreamer	I'd wrap the methods that are going to be deprecated, using globs, kind of like a custom debugger	19:29
@preaction	in all plugins of that kind?	19:29
@preaction	even the ones we didn't write which may or may not have the same method signature?	19:29
+perlDreamer	no, using WebGUI::Deprecated	19:29
+perlDreamer	so	19:29
+perlDreamer	use WebGUI::Deprecated qw/method1 method2/;	19:30
@preaction	WebGUI::Auth::MyAwesomeWebsitesAuthPlugin <- how do I wrap those methods?	19:30
Haarg	it really doesn't sound like something that would go in pluggable to me, but i'm not clear on what you intend for the implementation	19:30
+perlDreamer	would wrap those methods in the module that uses WebGUI::Deprecated, then they'd be exported normally	19:30
+perlDreamer	preaction: that's custom code, they can deprecate their own methods	19:31
@preaction	perlDreamer: i'm deprecating an API	19:31
+perlDreamer	then deprecate it in WebGUI::Auth	19:31
@preaction	I can't, because you don't have to call the superclass method. the deprecation warning would be hidden, or worse, it could cause undesired operation	19:31
@preaction	I have the deprecated method "editUserSettingsForm" and the new better-named method "editSettingsForm". in order to maintain backwards compatibility, I must try to call editUserSettingsForm first, in case the method got overridden. if I do end up calling that, I should spit a message to the log. otherwise I call the new, better-named method	19:32
+perlDreamer	dude, changing the name of methods just because you don't like them, and then writing a bunch of code to tell everyone that the name changed is like what we went through with JSON 1.0 to 2.0. That was a nightmare. My opinion is to stick with the name, not matter how bad it is	19:36
@preaction	we have two methods that are named almost the same that do entirely different things	19:36
@preaction	so i should also keep "deleteParams" and "deleteSingleParam" instead of a single "delete" method?	19:37
+perlDreamer	I would keep deleteParams, and have a dummy method deleteSingleParam to glue call back to that	19:38
+perlDreamer	because delete is usually delete the object	19:38
+perlDreamer	not a part of it	19:38
@preaction	they are kept, but they're deprecated, just as editUserSettingsForm is deprecated	19:39
+perlDreamer	to me, it sounds like the method of deprecation that has been chosen is worse then the original	19:39
Haarg	how many places are you going to need this?	19:39
@preaction	in Auth? 6 or so. during the entire 8.x series? more	19:40
@preaction	"method of deprecation"?	19:40
+perlDreamer	preaction, please just forget my griping. It's not useful to debate opinions.	19:41
Haarg	i can think of some games you could play with the symbol table to make it work as something like "deprecate 'oldmethod' => 'newmethod;"	19:42
Haarg	missed a quote in there	19:42
@preaction	and that'd get the first bit, making sure either method could be called, but we still have the problem of a subclass overriding and not calling the superclass. that's why i think it needs to be at the interface, not in the module	19:44
Haarg	i mean that that problem could be solved with symbol table mucking	19:45
@preaction	even in subclasses? wrapping the deprecated methods as they're loaded using an import() method in the superclass or something?	19:46
Haarg	you would basically move the method to use the old name	19:46
scrottie	take a less destructive track than what Acme::CodePolice does. use Tie::File; tie my @fixthem, (caller)[1]; s/deprecatedMethod/newMethod/ for @fixthem;	19:46
Haarg	then install a new method on the new name that did the checking and called the old name	19:46
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Haarg	preaction, http://gist.github.com/658623	20:05
Haarg	seems to work. not sure if you want that kind of magic though.	20:06
@preaction	making it easier is always better. my version would have broken if anyone else called the old method without using the proper deprecation warnings	20:07
@preaction	but if i'm reading this right, it still only occurs when the superclass method is called. but this would work for most instances, and i can do something else for the others	20:10
Haarg	yeah, it would only warn when the new method name is called	20:12
Haarg	but i'm not sure how you are doing to create a warning for cases where the old name is used, since that is in custom code	20:13
Haarg	and yeah if you put it in pluggable->call you could handle that, but only if they are actually using call	20:13
@preaction	well, it's only an issue in this case because the method is only an interface, there's no functionality in the superclass	20:14
Haarg	i don't quite see how that makes any difference	20:15
@preaction	in this case, there is 0 reason to call the superclass. in the other cases, it's more likely they did call the superclass method	20:15
Haarg	yeah, but that thing i wrote will warn even if they don't call the super class	20:16
@preaction	oh, then i don't understand what you wrote. would the author have to add this to their code to get the warning? or could I just add it to WebGUI::Auth and any subclasses get this warning ... because I always call the new method, and the proxy method calls the old method if it exists	20:20
@preaction	and if the subclass doesn't define the new one, the superclass new method gets called	20:20
Haarg	basically, you would use that in WebGUI::Auth	20:21
Haarg	as long as you always call it with the new name	20:21
Haarg	it would call the old method from their code and warn about it if it exists	20:21
Haarg	or would just run the new method you created if it didn't	20:22
Haarg	and if they used SUPER in their code, it would call the new method	20:22
@preaction	right, now i understand it. i'll install it and run the tests	20:23
@preaction	i love how WebGUI::SQL->quickCSV returns undef if any of the rows fail Text::CSV->combine	20:50
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CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r4864a75 / (lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm t/SQL.t): fix 11940: quickCSV chokes on newlines in data - http://bit.ly/bu4iui	21:41
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r6a7e93f / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : add changelog entry - http://bit.ly/azFH58	21:42
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r760c04d / (lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm t/SQL.t): fix 11940: quickCSV chokes on newlines in data - http://bit.ly/9H0xIh	21:43
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r0017306 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : add changelog entry - http://bit.ly/d0CVxc	21:43
@preaction	yay! i'm helping!	21:43
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seriftron	is there an easy way to find a listing of all the possible field types for a wobject?	22:11
seriftron	i've checked Asset.pm and Wobject.pm.	22:12
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+perlDreamer	seriftron, the asset's definition is the place to look for that	22:14
Haarg	field types correspond to WebGUI::Form modules	22:14
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Asset::SomeClass->definition($session)	22:15
+perlDreamer	or like Haargs said, everything inside of lib/WebGUI/Form	22:16
seriftron	thanks, perlDreamer & Haarg. i'm just trying to figure out what the possible field types for the fieldType param in a field's definition are, so looks like i should check out WebGUI::Form	22:16
+perlDreamer	yes	22:17
+perlDreamer	and if there isn't one in there that you need, you can write a custom one	22:17
+perlDreamer	or there are other options, too	22:17
seriftron	is there one that would allow a user to browse for a WebGUI page in the content tree and save the URL of that page in the DB?	22:18
seriftron	thought i'd ask before i look myself...	22:18
@preaction	WebGUI::Form::Asset	22:18
+perlDreamer	preaction: does that save an asset, or a URL?	22:18
+perlDreamer	uh, assetId	22:18
@preaction	the assetId	22:19
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r42078c2 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove the $ from the EMS badge template. Fixes bug #11933. - http://bit.ly/bVDO6H	22:19
seriftron	could easily write a macro to get the URL from assetId, though	22:19
seriftron	thanks!	22:19
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8f31aa0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove the $ from the EMS badge template. Fixes bug #11933. - http://bit.ly/d9xGOM	22:21
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r9dfa69e / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade package to the correct location. - http://bit.ly/d8S6bh	22:21
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r30ce628 / docs/templates.txt : Document the template changes for the Badge Listing template. - http://bit.ly/bBsYVq	22:23
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5ac6a97 / lib/WebGUI/Form/JsonTable.pm : Remove debug input from JsonTable - http://bit.ly/bnFP81	22:32
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@preaction	is it just me, or is the template edit screen broken?	22:41
xdanger	do you have plans to upgrade to yui3? is there anything new in it thats worth it?	22:45
Haarg	there's a lot of good stuff in yui3 and there are plans to use it in 8 but switching to it is not a simple task	22:46
+perlDreamer	preaction, I tested template edit last week with no problems	22:50
+perlDreamer	but perhaps it's time to try again	22:51
+perlDreamer	remember, we deleted the code editor	22:51
xdanger	I'm not finding any short "diff yui2 yui3" article, but it seems that yui3 has some jquery vibe in it.	22:51
@preaction	xdanger: we would require 2in3, as there are still things in 2 that have no corrolary in 3	22:51
@frodwith	eh... it uses a lot of css3 selectors, I wouldn't say that really constitutes a jquery vibe	22:51
@frodwith	they have very different feels to them :)	22:52
xdanger	well true, but this Y.one("#x"); feels a little like jquerys $...	22:53
xdanger	but not much, after I read a little more =D	22:54
@frodwith	right, you tend to get things with css3 selectors	22:54
@frodwith	which is one of the key coolnesses of jquery	22:54
+perlDreamer	preaction: i'm looking at a template edit screen	22:55
@frodwith	but it's still very much yui, so no chaining acrobatics, long namespaced functions, a real widget library (actually YUI3's object heirarchy is very yummy)	22:55
+perlDreamer	what are you seeing that's broken?	22:55
@preaction	the red box is all around the form and clicking Save does not work	22:56
@preaction	http://beta.webgui.org/demo1288642794_617/default_article?func=edit;proceed=manageAssets <- default un/pw	22:57
@preaction	http://demo.webgui.org/demo1288640655_665/default_article?func=edit;proceed=manageAssets <- same thing on 7.9 demo	22:57
+perlDreamer	which browser are you using, preaction?	22:58
+perlDreamer	i just did that with FF 3.6 and it works fine	22:58
@preaction	google chrome	22:58
@frodwith	<-- same issue in chrome	22:59
+perlDreamer	okay, switch to a real browser and see if you can duplicate it	22:59
+perlDreamer	so far, we haven't said whether or not we're going to support Chrome for admin functions	22:59
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@frodwith	"real browser" he says	22:59
@frodwith	he's a funny guy, he is	22:59
+perlDreamer	well, how 'bout "one that works"?	23:00
+perlDreamer	since chrome doesn't?	23:00
@frodwith	chrome works great	23:00
@preaction	but is it a problem with the browser or the page?	23:00
@frodwith	almost certainly the page.	23:00
+perlDreamer	I just edited a default template with firefox, and it worked fine	23:00
Haarg	</div<form	23:00
@frodwith	just because it works in firefox doesn't mean it's correct	23:00
+perlDreamer	no, of course not frodwith	23:01
@preaction	yeah, the validator just found it. yay!	23:01
+perlDreamer	so what have I broken now?	23:01
@preaction	i got it, no worries	23:01
Haarg	old bug. surprised it wasn't noticed before.	23:03
@frodwith	how old haarg?	23:04
Haarg	september 2008	23:04
@frodwith	that can't be right...	23:04
@preaction	chrome could be fixing errors in tag soup differently now	23:04
@frodwith	I'm.... fairly sure? i've edited default templates in chrome since then?	23:04
@frodwith	yeah, that could be.	23:04
Haarg	or other things were masking the problem somehow	23:04
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r97020f6 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm): fix 11941 cannot edit default templates - http://bit.ly/bKpbRD	23:07
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r68213b4 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm): fix 11941 cannot edit default templates - http://bit.ly/8Xi9YP	23:07
+perlDreamer	Haarg, how's work on the new translation server?	23:09
Haarg	stalled. it wouldn't take too long to get working but lacuna has been occupying my time. i had forgotten about it.	23:11
+perlDreamer	I'll see about getting the old svn server back up as a stopgap	23:12
+perlDreamer	or, I could try buying some essentia ;)	23:12
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+perlDreamer	knowing what you do now	23:58
+perlDreamer	Do you ever wonder how bad the code you wrote 5 years ago is?	23:58
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CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r59e848c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm): Don't send i18n values for form controls in www_manageRevisionsInTag. Fixes bug #11926 - http://bit.ly/cR1H0j	00:01
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r374acc5 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm): Don't send i18n values for form controls in www_manageRevisionsInTag. Fixes bug #11926 - http://bit.ly/9aNyoK	00:01
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SDuensin	Morning all.	15:30
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cj	patspam: what version of pspp does your .pm work with?	20:03
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re66092d / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/HTML.pm t/HTML.t): Anchor words to replace in processReplacements. Fixes bug #11939. - http://bit.ly/cGtypN	20:29
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r31b80a2 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/HTML.pm t/HTML.t): Anchor words to replace in processReplacements. Fixes bug #11939. - http://bit.ly/dfyiZn	20:29
cj	what's the function to print info to the log?	20:42
@preaction	$session->log->{error,warn,info,debug}("message")	20:43
+perlDreamer	or, if you like typing, you can also say $session->errorHandler->session->log->warn("lots of typing")	20:53
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cj	thanks	22:02
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6101080 / (docs/gotcha.txt sbin/testEnvironment.pl): Document the new version of Scope::Guard needed for Fork. - http://bit.ly/cJAWto	23:41
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra90eadd / (37 files in 22 dirs): Merge commit 'bfe9780ce0e0e1f1bde9fee21392fb22c1e0f2b6' into WebGUI8. Merged up to 7.10.3 - http://bit.ly/aGmNJG	23:50
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb214415 / (34 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade directory to correct version. - http://bit.ly/bw3MMM	23:50
--- Day changed Wed Nov 03 2010
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc67fcf3 / lib/WebGUI/User.pm : Fix merge issue with User.pm. Need to explicitly use WebGUI::Friends - http://bit.ly/978m4X	00:14
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5bda366 / t/AssetHelper/EditBranch.t : Fix leaky assets in the EditBranch asset helper test. - http://bit.ly/a14R5y	00:42
+perlDreamer	preaction: we're merged up to 7.10.3, but some of the new tests are leaking assets and tags, which is interfering with other tests	01:11
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9ad32eb / t/Admin.t : Remove unused module. - http://bit.ly/cOgMYG	01:11
+perlDreamer	I've fixed some of them, but not all the way done yet	01:11
@preaction	perlDreamer: post a note about it and move on. we should really get to the beta blocking tickets	01:24
@preaction	which means finalizing the APIs and preparing things for a public preview	01:25
+perlDreamer	what about Crud?	01:26
@preaction	what about it?	01:27
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xdanger	if I want a small feature in 7.10 do I need to add a rfe first or do I just do a git fork & push it upstream?	03:06
+perlDreamer	any new features have to be approved as an rfe	03:09
+perlDreamer	then, do the fork and wait for it to be approved	03:09
+perlDreamer	it it's approved, and you have commit bit, then push upstream	03:09
+perlDreamer	note, that all new features have to have good POD and tests	03:10
xdanger	I'd just like to add a few lines to here and there at the moment	03:19
+perlDreamer	it still needs to be an RFE	03:27
+perlDreamer	what are you thinking about doing/	03:27
+perlDreamer	?	03:27
+perlDreamer	ooh! shiny new progress bar ala frodwith!	03:32
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfaff933 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.10.4 release. - http://bit.ly/98zhQ8	03:39
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5efd3af / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.5 development. - http://bit.ly/aftxWr	04:03
xdanger	perlDreamer: http://webgui.pastebin.com/E210pP3w	04:15
+perlDreamer	yeah	04:16
+perlDreamer	those are all RFEs	04:16
+perlDreamer	and most of them would require tests	04:16
+perlDreamer	each macro item is an RFE	04:16
+perlDreamer	the Thingy work looks like one RFE all rolled together	04:16
+perlDreamer	the URLEncode macro thing is a bug (and it needs tests)	04:17
+perlDreamer	it's a bug because WebGUI should be UTF-8 safe	04:18
xdanger	if you encode an url in utf8 it differs from iso-8859-15 encoded	04:19
xdanger	and some sites only take iso-8859-1 urls	04:19
+perlDreamer	that's odd	04:20
+perlDreamer	I'll be back in a bit	04:20
xdanger	if you have some umlauts for example in variables	04:20
xdanger	and by some sites I mean external non-webgui sites	04:21
xdanger	But I'll work them in to rfe:s and we'll see what you guys say about them =)	04:22
xdanger	and write maybe some tests for them	04:22
xdanger	but now I have to go get some sleep	04:22
xdanger	did they seem like rfe:s that someone else would need or want?	04:24
+perlDreamer	yes	04:48
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SDuensin	Greetings.	15:55
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@preaction	wtf is with people having p:hover { background-color: anything } in their stylesheets? who needs the paragraph to change color when you hover over it?	17:11
+perlDreamer	they think it's better than the <BLINK> tag?	17:16
SDuensin	I personally prefer the BLINKing MARQUEE.	17:16
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, I can recommend a good counselor	17:18
@preaction	http://www.swisstrains.ch/ <- this is awesome	17:46
+perlDreamer	yeah it is	18:12
+perlDreamer	I'll have to show that to the boys	18:12
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+perlDreamer	howdy bartjol!	18:32
+bartjol	howdy	18:33
+perlDreamer	JT wasn't elected president, governor, senator, representative, mayor, councilor, ombudsman or in any other position	18:38
+perlDreamer	it's sad	18:38
@preaction	our write-in campaign failed :(	18:38
+perlDreamer	I also had to give Peter the bad news about the new Wisconsin governor	18:39
+perlDreamer	not only is he anti-train, but he's pro-Joomla	18:39
@preaction	trains are bad, mmmkay. they take jobs away from the car makers	18:40
+perlDreamer	we like car makers?	18:40
+bartjol	what, he didn, strange	18:41
+perlDreamer	oh boy, holy maintenance Batman!	18:47
+perlDreamer	just merged and pushed for review, expect brokenness	18:48
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfaff933 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.10.4 release. - http://bit.ly/a7AcdD	18:48
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re5608c2 / (34 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade dir to correct version. - http://bit.ly/aubOYa	18:49
+bartjol	oh, you want me to upgrade witto 7.10 for test?	18:56
+bartjol	just reinstalled a computer, because the kernel was to new for the application... next time better research	18:57
+bartjol	perlDreamer: I already see a release, is that one broken?	18:59
+bartjol	7.10.4	18:59
+perlDreamer	7.10.4 is fine, it's the new WebGUI 8 commit that I just made	18:59
+perlDreamer	the new Fork API may not have merged correctly	19:00
+perlDreamer	I'm running tests now	19:00
+bartjol	ah	19:01
+bartjol	mmm, monkey-patch	19:05
@preaction	http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2010/11/make-your-websites-run-faster.html <- should we add this to the last 0.9 WRE?	19:11
+bartjol	is there going to be a new 0.9 wre release then?	19:13
+bartjol	i like that	19:13
@preaction	there will be one final 0.9 release for the 7.x series of WebGUI, then a 1.0 release for the 8.x series	19:13
@preaction	though maybe we should call it WRE 8.0 to correspond to the same WebGUI version?	19:14
+bartjol	wre sticky, as plakerigis sticky in Dutch	19:14
+perlDreamer	mod_pagespeed wouldn't work with WRE 8 anyway	19:15
+perlDreamer	since it uses plack	19:15
+perlDreamer	but there will be middleware soon, I bet	19:15
+perlDreamer	oh yeah, WebGUI 8 go boom	19:15
+bartjol	mm, still have to update to latest 8 on my laptop before saturday	19:16
+perlDreamer	I would hold off at least today	19:17
+perlDreamer	I broke a lot of things with that last merge	19:17
+bartjol	well, haven got my laptop here now	19:17
@preaction	right, but it'd be nice for the 0.9 WRE, as i've always said we should give 7 a good sendoff, as once 7.10 goes stable people may not upgrade for a while	19:17
+bartjol	well, speed improvements would be nice	19:17
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3f49d25 / sbin/testEnvironment.pl : Document minimum version of HTTP::BrowserDetect needed for mobile method and recent browsers. - http://bit.ly/bpksPB	19:30
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r10b832b / (lib/WebGUI/Form/HTMLArea.pm lib/WebGUI/Session/Style.pm): Fix mobile browser detection. - http://bit.ly/9144np	19:30
+perlDreamer	preaction: I want to float an idea past you	19:30
+perlDreamer	WebGUI is so big, I think it needs lieutenants in charge of sub-parts	19:30
@preaction	who?	19:30
+perlDreamer	I don't know	19:31
+perlDreamer	there's you and me, and...	19:31
+perlDreamer	hm	19:31
@preaction	exactly, though I agree completely with your idea	19:32
@preaction	which is why I want there to be a smaller "Core" webgui, a "Base" set with some assets, and a "Full" set with everything	19:33
@preaction	then we can have someone responsible for Core, someone for the additions in Base, and someone for the additions in Full	19:33
+perlDreamer	you need to go back to blogging all this stuff	19:33
+perlDreamer	because that's a great idea	19:34
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@preaction	Base would have only Template assets, Layout assets, Articles, Snippets, Files, Images, and Folders, everything else would be in Full	19:35
@preaction	then you could eventually do: cpan install Bundle::WebGUI::Core or something like that	19:36
+perlDreamer	well, and if we worked hard enough, I think we could replace Spectre with Fork	19:49
@preaction	except for the cron bits	19:49
+perlDreamer	I think we could do the cron bits, too	19:50
@preaction	the fork would have to happen immediately	19:50
+perlDreamer	there would have to be some kind of lock, yes, so that multiple children don't fork to get a cron process	19:51
@preaction	no, the fork would exist only to check the time	19:52
+perlDreamer	a spectre-less WebGUI would look very attractive to cheap shared hosting	20:04
+perlDreamer	between that, and local::lib...	20:04
@preaction	in theory we could already use WebGUI::Fork to fork off a spectre process	20:05
@preaction	so the whole thing is the same, just Spectre starts with webgui	20:05
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbd48b97 / t/AdSpace/Ad.t : Cleanup the AdSpace created for testing. - http://bit.ly/d4z97R	20:36
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r53280ba / t/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.t : Cleanup a test merge. - http://bit.ly/avAMsb	20:36
@preaction	"We need to be able to grant view rights to multiple groups for any single asset" <- how long do you think that will take to make?	21:05
+perlDreamer	0 time	21:10
+perlDreamer	make a group that contains them all	21:10
@preaction	that's not what they want there. that's an inefficient way to do things, really	21:11
+perlDreamer	but it's 0 cost. You can have it now, for free	21:11
+perlDreamer	otherwise, it's ugly	21:11
@preaction	i'd like a UI element that allows you to pick users and groups and makes a group based on those users and groups, that'd be awesome	21:11
@preaction	but yes, i'll present both options. they'll probably go with the no-cost one	21:12
* perlDreamer wanders off for lunch		21:12
@preaction	ooh, I also get to improve how dashlets work!	21:15
ckotil	preaction: i was quoted ~$3K for that very feature about 3 years ago :)	21:15
@preaction	which one? the multiple groups one?	21:16
ckotil	ya	21:16
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@preaction	yeah, that sounds about right, considering how it will affect every single asset and most other things in WebGUI	21:16
ckotil	quote # 10119	21:16
@preaction	though 3 years ago our test coverage was far lower	21:17
ckotil	$2,300. sorry.	21:17
ckotil	would have been a neat feature.	21:18
@preaction	well, someone else may fund it now	21:18
ckotil	but as it is, we're getting by using groups of groups groups of.etc...	21:18
ckotil	nice.	21:18
@preaction	and those work just fine, and that's actually how it would work on the backend, the group would show up in the list "Group to view <asset title> <assetId>", and you'd be able to edit it from either interface	21:19
@preaction	heck, the Group Manager would probably use the same interface, that thing needs an overhaul anyway	21:19
@preaction	all our interfaces do :(	21:19
@preaction	but these guys want dashlets more than they want the multiple groups thing, i'll bet	21:20
@preaction	damn do i hate dashlets... not enough done to make it sane yet, but then nobody uses it so i can see why	21:22
ckotil	We've beent talking about useing it for a long time. We just need more integration with internal tools before we move forward with it	21:23
@preaction	well, maybe we'll have something far more useful. right now there's evil Shortcut hackery	21:23
ckotil	shortcuts proved very useful recently. we had to expose a lot of documentation to whole new set of users. rather than duplicating the content , the shortcut asset worked like a charm	21:24
@preaction	oh yes, in that regard, and with overrides, the shortcut is awesome, but it has two hacky bits:	21:24
@preaction	Shortcut By Metadata, and the Dashboard Integration	21:25
cj	how do I get the logger to print a stacktrace along with messages?	21:48
@preaction	edit log.conf to add %n%T to the log format	21:48
@preaction	%n adds a newline, %T the stack trace	21:48
cj	super. thanks!	21:49
@preaction	i usually then add %n%n to the end, so it's obvious where the breaks are	21:49
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+perlDreamer	TGC needs to stock these: http://click.email.thinkgeek.com/?qs=d8dfacdff5b6f132ec3f575d5eb9addba21c63db90026eb1ccb471aedbb3590f	22:01
@preaction	yes!	22:02
* perlDreamer heads over to the ideas board		22:04
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r50a9dd0 / lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm : Begin moving Fork over to the new Session API. Tests are still failing. - http://bit.ly/cSAzfx	22:23
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf5764b0 / (lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm t/Fork.t): Update Fork to work with 8. All tests passing. - http://bit.ly/9kuPSb	22:23
+perlDreamer	preaction: take a look at this please: http://gist.github.com/661649	22:27
+perlDreamer	that happened during a test	22:27
+perlDreamer	I'm going to see if it's repeatable	22:27
+perlDreamer	it's way odd	22:27
* perlDreamer is off to pick up kids		22:34
@preaction	that is weird. it should be $^O not ^O()	22:40
cj	scrottie0: 19:48 <@preaction> edit log.conf to add %n%T to the log format	22:50
scrottie0	forgot I was here... didn't fire xchat back up when X crashed.	22:51
scrottie0	nice.	22:51
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cj	perlDreamer: let me know when you're back. :)	23:20
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--- Day changed Thu Nov 04 2010
* perlDreamer is back		00:26
@preaction	learned a new trick: using graham's WebGUI::Deprecate, you cannot deprecate a method in a subclass that is already deprecated in the superclass. causes infinite recursion!	00:30
@preaction	otherwise, the WebGUI::Deprecate works awesome!	00:31
+perlDreamer	infinite recursion. Now, if only we could harness the power of that, we could throw away these faulty zero-point field generators.	00:35
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2685352 / t/SQL.t : Fix number of tests in SQL.t - http://bit.ly/c2OPPv	00:39
@preaction	ooh, a problem: the superclass overrides the new method, but the caller calls the old method, which only seems to call the superclass's new method. i have to redispatch instead	00:44
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Haarg	superclass overrides new? not sure i understand.	00:56
@preaction	Auth has www_displayLogin. Auth::WebGUI has www_displayLogin. Caller calls "displayLogin", but only Auth->www_displayLogin seems to get called	00:57
Haarg	i'd have to see the actual code i guess	01:01
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@preaction	Haarg: checkout https://github.com/preaction/webgui/tree/8 and run t/Operation/Auth.t	01:14
@preaction	test 7 fails	01:14
@preaction	now, i could make an argument for more of the WebGUI::Auth superclass to take over from WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI, but it'd be better to fix this	01:15
@preaction	it seems like Deprecate should do something like $self->$new_method(@_) somewhere	01:30
@preaction	but using it as the replacement for oldmethod doesn't work	01:30
Haarg	why?	01:30
Haarg	the code should probably be a bit clearer in what it is trying to do	01:31
@preaction	so it gets redispatched to the top of the inheritence tree, instead of only at the exact place you call deprecate	01:31
@preaction	putting deprecate in the subclass as well causes an infinite loop	01:32
@preaction	either that, or the proxy method should inject into $self's package	01:34
Haarg	why do you want to have deprecate in the subclass as well?	01:34
@preaction	i don't want to, it's just the subclass was fixed, but now the API is broken	01:35
@preaction	i was just trying things to try to fix it	01:35
Haarg	lib/WebGUI/Operation/Auth.pm line 85 or s	01:39
Haarg	o	01:39
Haarg	how did that ever work?	01:40
Haarg	or oh i guess i'm dumb	01:40
@preaction	yeah, sorry, the test is really failing because there's a LoginBox macro in the page, which calls displayLogin, not www_displayLogin	01:40
Haarg	www_view calls displayLogin as well	01:41
@preaction	ooh, missed that one	01:41
Haarg	i'm still missing something though. can you describe how the method is getting called and how it is failing?	01:42
@preaction	LoginMacro or WebGUI::Session::Privilege is calling WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI->displayLogin; that doesn't exist anymore, so it goes to WebGUI::Auth->displayLogin...	01:43
@preaction	deprecate displayLogin => 'www_displayLogin'; creates the proxy method for displayLogin, and now we've got something to call	01:43
Haarg	ok i get it now	01:44
@preaction	now, of course i'll fix the erroneous call to displayLogin, but core's probably not the only one doing it	01:44
Haarg	and the whole point is to keep it backwards compatible	01:45
@preaction	right	01:45
@preaction	so the warning in there is good, but there needs to be something else to say "dude, you called the wrong thing, dingbat"	01:45
+perlDreamer	throw an exception?	01:46
@preaction	it's deprecated, not discontinued. can't throw yet	01:47
@preaction	though i imagine 9.0 will add "discontinue" to the mix, throwing nice exceptions when calling old methods	01:47
@preaction	uh... wtf it started working now that www_view was fixed	02:02
@preaction	because the test isn't correct, WebGUI->www_displayLogin is not being called before Auth->www_displayLogin still	02:03
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Haarg	preaction, i have a new deprecate thing that works better hopefully	02:08
@preaction	ok	02:08
Haarg	no warnings yet, so let me get that done and we'll see how it goes	02:09
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Haarg	preaction, http://gist.github.com/661936	02:19
Haarg	needs its own tests really	02:19
@preaction	i can handle that	02:20
Haarg	and i didn't finish the docs obviously	02:20
Haarg	i really wish you could localize lexicals	02:20
@preaction	this looks like something that could be released on CPAN, honestly	02:21
Haarg	maybe, although it only works for methods	02:22
@preaction	eh, so call it dep_method or something, and have dep_sub	02:23
@preaction	though wouldn't dep_method call dep_sub in the end?	02:23
Haarg	deprecating subs would just be adding the alias with the warning	02:25
@preaction	Haarg: all works beautifully now, after i fixed the broken parts of the test and fixed stuff the new deprecate revealed i had missed. thanks	02:44
CIA-67	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r5a2d4d8 / (7 files in 3 dirs): change to www_ methods everywhere - http://bit.ly/bP0TBL	02:44
CIA-67	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf515d85 / (5 files in 4 dirs): fix tests for www_auth. fix deprecate for callers - http://bit.ly/cvFdWc	02:44
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CIA-67	webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * r5e5e65c / lib/WebGUI/ProgressBar.pm : AssetHelper dialogs close properly now - http://bit.ly/aGRxp9	16:32
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym		18:15
+perlDreamer	so that someday, I can beat bartjol in an arm wrestling match	18:15
+bartjol	eeeh	18:15
+bartjol	that won't be hard	18:16
@preaction	yay! Auth done! now for more documentation	19:10
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+perlDreamer	and tests!	19:20
+perlDreamer	don't forget the tests	19:20
@scrottie	who is sending sig TERMs to my httpd and how do I make it stop?	19:21
+bartjol	perlDreamer: did you repair that wg8 feature tou introduced yesterday?	19:23
+perlDreamer	scrottie, look at the wremonitor perhaps?	19:23
+perlDreamer	bartjol: WebGUI8 is good	19:23
+bartjol	ok, then I can use it to show people saturday at T-Dose	19:23
+perlDreamer	scrottie, you could also be suffering from Apache2::SizeLimit problems, so try upping the limits in modperl.pl	19:24
@preaction	perlDreamer: tests were first on the list	19:25
@preaction	auth is still wonky though. there's things that the superclass do that only really apply to WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI and no other auth module ever	19:26
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+perlDreamer	and why exactly do the proximity of "Auth" and "wonky" surprise you?	19:30
+perlDreamer	:)	19:30
@preaction	because i thought i could fix most of it and write some coherent, easy-to-follow docs. i was wrong.	19:31
@preaction	no, wait, i'm right. i can, but i have to go higher	19:31
+perlDreamer	Auth -> toilet -> sewage -> fields -> compost -> fertilizer -> Auth2	19:31
@preaction	because there's really only one www entry point, www_view (formerly init)	19:31
@preaction	i figure if i can get people to look at it differently, and write better auth subclasses, it won't matter what i do to break it during 8.x	19:32
+perlDreamer	what you're doing is pretty new	19:36
+perlDreamer	we just broke the Asset API outright	19:36
+perlDreamer	and told people how to convert	19:36
@preaction	right, but asset wasn't the most egregious problem. that honor goes to Auth and Operation	19:37
@preaction	hm... should auth methods be configured in the config file? i can't think of any reason to have, for example, the twitter API key in the website	19:39
CIA-67	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * re128c04 / (docs/migration.txt lib/WebGUI/User.pm): fix User deprecations - http://bit.ly/9WiatX	19:41
CIA-67	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r1cebfdd / lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm : fix Auth docs - http://bit.ly/ddxBm7	19:41
CIA-67	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r4edaf02 / lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm : add more docs to Auth - http://bit.ly/9YBaLe	19:41
+perlDreamer	the only reason I can think of to have it in the website is so people can add it on the fly	19:42
+perlDreamer	rather than needing to have command line access to add it	19:42
+perlDreamer	well, and it's more work to add it to the UI than add it to the config file	19:45
@preaction	right, so like i want to do for Admin plugins, we should have both	19:45
@preaction	admin plugins have config file, but not a hook for the settings form	19:45
@preaction	and we need to reevaluate the hugeness of the settings and reorganize it a bit	19:45
@preaction	an accordion menu instead of a tabview, perhaps	19:46
@preaction	yay! i'm unravelling www_editSave into something COHERENT!	19:48
+perlDreamer	yeah	19:48
@preaction	then all we've got is the issue tracker and we're done!	19:48
+perlDreamer	not sure I followed you on that one chief	19:50
+perlDreamer	do you migrating it to WebGUI 8	19:50
@preaction	all the tickets on the issue tracker for 8	19:50
+perlDreamer	yeah	19:50
@preaction	no, this is 8	19:51
+perlDreamer	oy	19:51
+perlDreamer	we'll need to do that, too though	19:51
@preaction	www_add and www_addSave now, instead of www_editSave handling both	19:51
@preaction	huh?	19:51
+perlDreamer	any custom code for webgui.org needs to be migrated over	19:51
@preaction	oh, yes	19:51
+perlDreamer	KarmaGifter, macros, anything else	19:51
@preaction	that'll be our time to test the docs/migration.txt	19:51
+perlDreamer	yes	19:52
+perlDreamer	btw, I have "functioning" Crud code	19:52
+perlDreamer	where functioning ~~ 40%	19:52
@preaction	we just need something to limp along with while we move to a better one	19:53
@preaction	i've been told DBIC is my only option, by certain interested parties	19:53
+perlDreamer	certain interested parties with long chin hair and arched eyebrow?	19:53
@preaction	no, Getty	19:57
+perlDreamer	weren't you favoring Fey::ORM?	19:58
@scrottie	I remember back in the old days when Perl was both far more popular and cool, and also less fad obsessed.	19:59
+perlDreamer	oh, less fad obsessed	19:59
+perlDreamer	like NNTP clients	19:59
+perlDreamer	IRC clients	19:59
+perlDreamer	CGI	19:59
+perlDreamer	external interface of the day	19:59
@scrottie	no one ever said, "you _must_ use this one NNTP client or else your code sucks"	19:59
+perlDreamer	no, we just said, you have to use Perl or your code sucks :)	19:59
+perlDreamer	and sometimes, their code sucked anyway	20:00
@preaction	i'm not an idiot, i will attempt to make what i want to with an ORM before i choose which one	20:01
@preaction	i want a basic CRUD webgui app, whichever one makes a better, more extensible one, wins	20:01
CIA-67	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r4bb4dce / lib/WebGUI/User.pm : add WebGUI::Deprecate line - http://bit.ly/9Y4eIw	20:16
+perlDreamer	I could use some Moose sugar help from the assembly	20:18
+perlDreamer	this is for the Moose based Crud	20:18
+perlDreamer	I setup "define" methods for tableName, which was good	20:19
+perlDreamer	I also used define for tableKey and sequenceKey	20:19
+perlDreamer	It would be sugary to create those methods in the consumers namespace, instead of making them declare it twice	20:19
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CIA-67	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf14545e / lib/WebGUI/User.pm : only warn once on deprecations - http://bit.ly/c1fj58	20:20
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seriftron	Hey, question about WebGUI::Form::Asset (the asset browser). Is it possible to set a starting path for this control that the asset browser starts at?	20:37
seriftron	Don't see anything in the docs about it...	20:37
@preaction	yes, look in the definition sub	20:38
seriftron	Awesome	20:38
@preaction	er... maybe you have to give it a value	20:38
seriftron	Hm, I just see label, name, and class	20:41
@preaction	yeah, you might just have to give it a value	20:44
@preaction	also, that form control is going to get redone, as it sucks really really badly	20:45
seriftron	Eh, it does what I need to in this case, but good to hear!	20:47
@preaction	i like how windows' new explorer works	20:49
@preaction	or the slide-view from OS X	20:49
seriftron	The asset icons would be helpful to see beside the file names (like on the main asset tree) to make it easier to browse	20:52
@preaction	yes, have it all be JS would be nice too, faster	20:55
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Getty	preaction: what?! :-)	21:33
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knowmad	preaction: Howdy! I'm trying to get Cache::FastMmap running using CHI and WebGUI 7.9.14. However, I'm getting errors in my logs. See http://webgui.pastebin.com/u1FWvx1W	22:37
@preaction	sudo rm -rf `perldoc -l Linux::Smaps` <- i assume you're on a redhat derivative?	22:38
knowmad	Looks like the web server doesn't have permission to modify the file (it's read-only)	22:38
knowmad	actually, i'm on ubuntu	22:38
knowmad	It looks like Linux::Smaps is shipped with perl.	22:39
@preaction	it might be that the kernel isn't allowing non-root to read that file, as it may contain sensitive info. there's a future patch that allows the process to read its own smap, but for now your best bet is to just delete Linux::Smaps	22:39
@preaction	nope, not in core Perl. is in the WRE though	22:40
knowmad	cool, thanks	22:40
knowmad	ok	22:40
@preaction	is this still your 64-bit box you compiled the WRE on?	22:40
knowmad	yep	22:40
knowmad	i've also got CHI running on a 32-bit box	22:40
knowmad	ubuntu	22:40
knowmad	i'm going to check if we're seeing the same issues there; it's a more recent kernel than the 64-bit box	22:41
knowmad	brb...	22:41
knowmad	should my modperl processes be getting bigger as a result of using CHI?	22:42
knowmad	i'm seeing lots of errors about SizeLimit killing off processes	22:43
knowmad	looks like Cache::FastMmap is behaving nicely under 32-bit Ubuntu	22:45
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@preaction	your processes will appear to get bigger because of FastMmap	22:50
@preaction	but you should only have to increase Max_Shared_size	22:51
knowmad	ok, i'll try that	22:55
knowmad	is that the same as $Apache::SizeLimit::MAX_PROCESS_SIZE = 10000; # 10MB	22:56
knowmad	actually, i'm showing the UNSHARED size also dramatically increasing	22:57
knowmad	wonder if that's a 64-bit issue...	22:57
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scrottie0	stuff that doesn't get mmap'd in but instead was already there before a vfork is non-shared. mmap'd in memory isn't shared in the same way, even though it is shared... it isn't copy-on-write memory from the parent process.	22:59
scrottie0	too many negatives. I botched that.	23:00
scrottie0	stuff that was there before a vfork is shared.	23:00
scrottie0	stuff that wasn't there before a vfork isn't considered shared, even though it might actually be.	23:00
knowmad	so does the mmap stuff get loaded before or after forking?	23:00
scrottie0	after.	23:00
knowmad	so that's why it's increasing my unshared size?	23:01
scrottie0	that's a pretty good guess.	23:01
scrottie0	you can dig around in /proc for more details...	23:01
knowmad	that makes sense; so the more clients I setup under fastmmap, the bigger my share will get	23:01
knowmad	s/share/mem usage/	23:01
scrottie0	maybe.	23:02
knowmad	looking at my logs i see that the shared memory is small (3844Kb)	23:02
scrottie0	re: /proc.	23:02
knowmad	unshared is huge (370000Kb)	23:03
knowmad	ok, thanks for the info; i'll keep an eye on it	23:04
knowmad	glad to have the Smaps errors removed	23:04
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@preaction	okay, so it's technically shared, as it's mmap, but it's reported as unshared	23:04
@preaction	fun	23:04
scrottie0	you can mmap in "anonymous" memory that can't be shared... you can mmap in a file that another process may or may not also mmap in...	23:06
@preaction	ahh	23:06
knowmad	Ok, i've had enough fun with memory for the day	23:06
scrottie0	I've had enough fun with the wre for the day =\|	23:06
knowmad	going to enjoy the rest of my b'day! thanks guys...	23:06
scrottie0	no sh!t. knowmad++.	23:06
knowmad	++ indeed	23:07
@preaction	sheesh, get out of here and have fun	23:07
knowmad	later	23:07
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scrottie0	knowmad+=33264000	23:07
+perlDreamer	he could use that for more memory!	23:07
* scrottie0 ponders `more /proc/6595/task/6595/stat` for one of the httpd processes		23:09
+perlDreamer	what kind of wre problems are you having, scrottie0?	23:11
+perlDreamer	yay! crud progress	23:18
scrottie0	wremonitor always telling me that starting modperl failed. too low of a memory limit. coredumps in an XS module built against the wre perl. no diagnostic output when mysql fails to start with wreservice.pl --verbose --start mysql.	23:23
scrottie0	a far more obnoxious program has been drawing my ire lately though.	23:24
scrottie0	this bit of free software failed on startup with a sanity check about word size when built on 64 bit linux. so I built it on 32 just in case somehow the 64-bit-iness was leaking over. it still failed the same check.	23:25
scrottie0	one the deps is a specific commit of a library.	23:25
scrottie0	the docs are circular and avoid at all costs giving examples.	23:26
scrottie0	wre did some other stuff that pissed me off too. i just don't remember right now, having been distracted by this other p.o.s.	23:28
+perlDreamer	wre diagnostics leave a lot to be desired, for sure	23:55
--- Day changed Fri Nov 05 2010
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elnino	hello all!	05:14
elnino	bye all!	05:21
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SDuensin	FrIdAy!	15:46
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+perlDreamer	yay, got the entire test to run	17:06
+perlDreamer	for 8's new Crud	17:06
+perlDreamer	now, if only they all passed...	17:06
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@preaction	yay!	17:15
+bartjol	scope is important in perl....	17:17
+perlDreamer	bartjol: indeed	17:18
+bartjol	and, Koen is father of a boy!	17:19
+perlDreamer	hurrah!	17:19
+bartjol	Huub, and I'm not gonna try to let you pronounce that	17:19
+perlDreamer	does the boy have a name?	17:19
+perlDreamer	oh, I'm sure with enough beer that I'll be able to pronounce it, or you'll find it funny	17:20
+bartjol	yeah, that is a bit too much of an if(){} else{} construction	17:21
+perlDreamer	if ($colin->has_beer and $bart->has_beer) { return $colin->pronounces \|\| $bart->finds_it->funny; }	17:23
+bartjol	even better, sorry, hacking on a dns tool	17:48
+bartjol	not really paying attention here	17:49
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@preaction	question: should we distribute additional things with the WRE like zabbix_agent and munin?	19:15
@preaction	scrottie had a security integrity daemon he mentioned that might be good too, but i can't find the logs for the name anymore	19:16
@preaction	also, perlDreamer, would you mind if I changed "valid_parent_classes" into "valid_child_classes" that returns a list and isValidChild will pass if any class ISA tested_class?	19:18
@preaction	that way, i can be on a Layout and ask it what kinds of assets I am allowed to add, instead of asking every asset if they're allowed to be on a Layout	19:18
+perlDreamer	valid_parent_classes has a dual use	19:19
+perlDreamer	1) it does valid parent checking	19:20
+perlDreamer	2) it tells the asset what kind of parent that it needs when building parent chains for testing	19:20
+perlDreamer	otherwise, when testing, you have to poll all available assets to see if they can contain me as a child	19:21
@preaction	so six of one, half-dozen of the other	19:21
+perlDreamer	not quite	19:21
+perlDreamer	canAdd is called on $self	19:21
+perlDreamer	which checks $session->asset	19:21
+perlDreamer	which is the parent	19:21
+perlDreamer	I don't think it will work inversely	19:21
+perlDreamer	mn	19:22
+perlDreamer	yeah, maybe it will	19:22
@preaction	canAdd is changing, as www_add is changing	19:22
+perlDreamer	you just ask session->asset if it can child self	19:22
+perlDreamer	I'm not opposed, as long as t/run_asset.t works when you're through	19:22
+perlDreamer	I've never heard of munin, but I don't think we should distribute zabbix with the WRE	19:23
+perlDreamer	to run it, you gotta have a PHP server	19:23
@preaction	we don't distribute the server, just the agentd	19:23
+perlDreamer	but what good is one without the other?	19:23
+perlDreamer	at least with awstats, you have a complete solution	19:23
@preaction	they'd have to set up the server themselves	19:23
@preaction	munin is a resource monitor thing	19:24
+perlDreamer	maybe we should sub-class the WRE for our deployment purposes?	19:24
@preaction	graphs and the like	19:24
+perlDreamer	that's cool	19:24
@preaction	we could also do that, even provide it as a "Pro WRE Node" and "Pro WRE Server (including Zabbix Server and SecurityServer and gasp Automat)"	19:25
@preaction	well, automat won't make it past the suits, but the rest of it	19:25
+perlDreamer	I think I know how to do in-memory assets	19:35
@preaction	uh, i hope so, because they work?	19:35
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+perlDreamer	really, how do you make an in-memory only asset?	19:42
@scrottie	what the heck is zabbix anyway?	19:47
@scrottie	there's tripwire... and there's the thing like it that runs remotely whose name I don't remember... and there are a few rootkit sniffers...	19:50
@scrottie	http://stealth.sourceforge.net/	19:51
+perlDreamer	zabbbix is system monitoring software with centralized reporting	19:52
+perlDreamer	Crud.t passes!	20:04
+perlDreamer	time for docs, and then all sub-tests	20:04
@preaction	scrottie: yes, that one, stealth	20:05
+perlDreamer	without apache in the WRE, it should get smaller	20:11
+perlDreamer	preaction: did you ever download the new VM image that I uploaded to give it a spin?	20:11
+perlDreamer	it'd be nice to have a 2nd pair of eyes, since it's the first time I did that	20:11
+perlDreamer	although, virtualBox is pretty nice	20:12
Haarg	i still really want to get rid of image magick. it's the one remaining painful prereq.	20:16
+perlDreamer	MMAP has some hangups, too	20:17
+perlDreamer	but yet, ImageMagick would be good to remove	20:17
+perlDreamer	s/et/es	20:17
Haarg	yeah there are a couple other areas where you can run into problems	20:17
Haarg	but they are easy to work around	20:18
@scrottie	Survey.pm uses exception handling to break out of the sandbox when it needs to get more data in.	20:32
@scrottie	I'm seeing traces from Survey.pm in my log when running certain unit tests.	20:32
@scrottie	is this normal? or is my WebGUI going to fall off?	20:32
@scrottie	sorry, Survey::ExpressionEngine.	20:32
+perlDreamer	scrottie: for a benchmark, grab a VM image of WebGUI on CentOS, and run it.	20:37
+perlDreamer	I don't remember seeing any ExpressionEngine errors, but that doesn't mean that they aren't in there	20:38
+perlDreamer	maybe even by deliberate testing	20:38
+perlDreamer	patspam++ is a very, very thorough test writer	20:38
* perlDreamer goes AFK for lunch, et. al.		20:40
patspam	haarg++ # death to image magick!	20:45
Haarg	i got storage working using imager instead but the graph stuff is a lot more work to convert	20:46
patspam	I just read the latest CPAN Testers blog post about how cpan modules get tested on over 100 platforms	20:47
patspam	made me think it'd be worth building a wrapper around sqlite + a subset of WebGUI that can be uploaded to cpan just for the sake of getting tested	20:48
Haarg	yeah	20:48
patspam	I'd do it if I wasn't starting the new job on monday ;)	20:49
patspam	maybe after I settle in	20:49
Haarg	i'd work on making WebGUI work as a cpan dist if i could get rid of yui but there isn't a good way to do that	20:49
patspam	what issue does YUI introduce?	20:49
Haarg	it adds tons of files	20:50
Haarg	which makes the normal make or build process very slow	20:50
patspam	could you make it a CDN-by-default wG build?	20:51
Haarg	i'd like to but that involves adding config stuff for yui	20:51
patspam	I thought yui cdn options were added a few months ago?	20:52
Haarg	i started working on it but it wasn't complete	20:52
patspam	ah ok	20:53
Haarg	basically, we want yui3 but it is a lot of work to use it, even though not much of the actual js code would need to change	20:53
Haarg	so adding extra options/upgrades/complexity for yui that would just get thrown out had kind of been rejected	20:53
patspam	you could build a dist that isn't supposed to be used by anyone (at least for now)	20:55
patspam	e.g. just leave yui out of it	20:56
patspam	just for the sake of free testing	20:56
Haarg	yeah, or include a script that would download yui as part of an install process	20:56
Haarg	kind of hard to be motivated to spend the time doing the work when it can't be used though	20:56
patspam	yeah true	20:57
patspam	been reading the catalyst book this week	20:59
patspam	even now that we have plack in wg8 I can still see value in porting wg to catalyst	21:00
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+perlDreamer	patspam: it's not fair to tease us like that, and then wander off elsewhere ;)	22:12
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SquOnk	Greetings.	22:51
SquOnk	Is there a reason for not being able to create multiple shortcuts in a single operation from the Asset Manager?	22:52
SquOnk	I mean, you can select several assets and then Cut/Copy/Delete/Duplicate...	22:52
SquOnk	...why isn't there a 'Create Shortcut' button too?	22:52
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+perlDreamer	SquOnk, no idea	23:14
+perlDreamer	sounds like a great RFE	23:15
+perlDreamer	preaction: what's the freeze window for 7.10?	23:15
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@preaction	perlDreamer: shall we say second week of december? however that matches up to a 7.10 release?	23:48
+perlDreamer	works for me chief	23:49
+perlDreamer	that gives people 6 weeks	23:49
@preaction	then we got a few weeks before the break to stabilize, then when we come back from break we'll have the stable 7.10 release	23:49
@preaction	why again do we have lastModified and revisionDate? because lastModified gets changed by any call to update()?	23:54
+perlDreamer	preaction: that's what I'd assume. However, the reason for that is lost in the sands of time.	23:55
@preaction	sigh... i love having two stores for the same data	23:55
+perlDreamer	well, you can call update without making a revision	23:55
@preaction	we should stop using revisionDate and start using revisionId	23:55
+perlDreamer	so it makes sense to have lastModified	23:56
@preaction	then revisionDate could change and it wouldn't matter	23:56
@preaction	well... does it even matter now?	23:56
+perlDreamer	but why would you ever change a revisionDate?	23:56
+perlDreamer	revisionId is almost like tagId	23:56
@preaction	what other reasons do we need lastModified?	23:56
@preaction	no, revisionId would be per-asset. tagId is a foreign key	23:56
+perlDreamer	how would you find the current revision without the date, and sorting by date?	23:57
+perlDreamer	would you store the current revisionId in the asset table?	23:57
+perlDreamer	or do you have some other plan?	23:57
@preaction	you'd still have the date, or storing the current revisionId in the asset table would be nice too	23:58
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@preaction	you'd still need the date for other things, but it wouldn't have to be important	23:58
+perlDreamer	I like storing it, since you don't have to do a sub-select anymore	23:58
@preaction	but being able to join back and forth from the asset table, without having to subselect revisionDate would be awesome	23:58
+perlDreamer	totally	23:58
+perlDreamer	but, iirc, I had this talk with Haarg and he had a good reason why not to do that	23:58
@preaction	any objections? i leave the floor open. otherwise i'm doing it	23:58
+perlDreamer	maybe it was with rizen	23:59
@preaction	humph. always killing my parade	23:59
+perlDreamer	i have an objection	23:59
@preaction	it would destroy many SQLReports, or at least fuck with them a little bit	23:59
+perlDreamer	it's not on the 8 TODO list, and we're 10 weeks away from alpha release	23:59
@preaction	we couldn't just drop revisionDate	23:59
+perlDreamer	that's the only objection that I have to doing it	23:59
@preaction	right, but this would be just an addition, a new part we can take advantage of during 8.x to simplify things	23:59
+perlDreamer	I don't even care about the SQL Reports. They can rework them	23:59
--- Day changed Sat Nov 06 2010
@preaction	in fact, we don't have to migrate anything at all, it just gets updated as "current" changes while tags are committed	00:00
+perlDreamer	oh, you mean add it to the list, not do it right now?	00:00
@preaction	then over time we can change things, after writing the docs that explain it	00:00
@preaction	right, it's a "can do anytime" thing, it's new, not breaking any apis whatsoever	00:00
+perlDreamer	bah, documentation. Good tests supersede those.	00:00
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@preaction	well, for example, check out my Admin docs, and my new ... crap I wrote nice docs for something, now I don't remember what	00:01
+perlDreamer	Auth?	00:01
@preaction	FormBuilder maybe?	00:01
@preaction	no, i couldn't, Auth is pretty simple, one real entry point: www_view	00:01
@preaction	everything else is a hodgepodge between the base class and Auth::WebGUI which needs to be sorted out	00:02
+perlDreamer	it's not FormBuilder, it's missing lots of POD	00:02
+perlDreamer	and there's nothing in docs/migration.txt about it either	00:03
+perlDreamer	but there's nothing to migrate, really	00:03
+perlDreamer	aside from how to convert from *Form to FormBuilder maybe?	00:03
@preaction	not really, no. humph...	00:03
@preaction	maybe it was... graham wrote something awesome that we added that i wrote docs for to make POD.t shut the hell up	00:04
@preaction	not Upgrade	00:04
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@preaction	eh, oh well, the idea being that you should be able to get a basic understanding from the POD	00:04
+perlDreamer	"graham writing something awesome" doesn't narrow it down very much	00:04
@preaction	i know, right?	00:04
+perlDreamer	similar to "doug writing something awesome"	00:05
@preaction	i do have to doc the WebGUI::Deprecate which kicks all ass everywhere. is gonna make this whole thing so much easier	00:05
@preaction	gonna add some helper methods, and then take an hour and actually figure out how it works, as i understand the theory, but i couldn't fix it when it needed extending	00:05
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* perlDreamer takes a foosball break		00:06
@preaction	i just noticed, if anyone ever adds an asset to bring a site over maximum assets, nobody will ever get to save another asset again, unless an asset gets deleted	00:12
@preaction	so if an upgrade adds an asset...	00:12
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+perlDreamer	then we have a static site!	00:23
@preaction	i keep wanting to do everything and then run/write tests, but it'll be easier if i do one thing, then run/write tests, then the next thing, etc...	00:34
+perlDreamer	yeah, it's slow and methodical, but safe	00:35
@preaction	perlDreamer: do all the run_asset.t tests pass for you?	00:35
+perlDreamer	pass?	00:35
+perlDreamer	they don't even run	00:35
@preaction	yes	00:35
@preaction	oh, fun, i need them.	00:35
+perlDreamer	after the last merge from FormBuilder/getEditForm, they take hours to run due to calling sleep lots	00:35
@preaction	ah, i can fix that	00:36
@preaction	and yeah they won't pass either, i can fix that too	00:36
@preaction	does AssetExportHtml.t pass?	00:36
+perlDreamer	yes	00:37
+perlDreamer	well...	00:37
+perlDreamer	that's one of the tests that didn't pass due to leaks	00:37
+perlDreamer	however, on yesterday's run, it did pass, even though it did leak a tag	00:38
+perlDreamer	although the tag was empty with no assets	00:38
@preaction	humph...	00:39
@preaction	okay, so i'll fix the admin test then	00:39
@preaction	i'm fixing www_edit www_add and the whole notion of saving and version tags, so i'm gonna need the tests ;-)	00:39
+perlDreamer	oh yeah you are	00:40
+perlDreamer	when you run the tests, be sure to set WEBGUI_TEST_DEBUG=1	00:40
+perlDreamer	that'll help with tracking when you get the tag cleaned up	00:41
@preaction	but when i'm done i think we'll all like the results	00:41
+perlDreamer	foosball break	01:09
+perlDreamer	yow!	01:18
+perlDreamer	10-1 to the home team for Goalie wars	01:18
SquOnk	lol	01:22
SquOnk	What would you suggest to carry a "Quote of the Week" section?	01:22
SquOnk	"To be or not to be, that's the question" -- Shakespeare	01:23
SquOnk	"To be or not to be, is that a question?" -- SquOnk	01:23
SquOnk	On the main page we would use a shortcut with and overriding template so that only the most recent quote is shown.	01:23
SquOnk	But the "Quotes of the Week" page should list them all, with pagination.	01:24
@preaction	a CS would work	01:30
SquOnk	preaction: Probably as a Weblog without replies...	01:34
@preaction	well, i'd do a whole custom template really, but yes	01:34
SquOnk	preaction: A hint?	01:36
@preaction	huh?	01:37
SquOnk	preaction: What to use instead of a weblog	01:37
@preaction	a shortcut with a template override added to your style templates with an assetproxy, and then a normal CS somewhere. use the title as the quote, either content or userDefined1 as the author or something	01:37
@preaction	a custom template, you write a template yourself	01:38
SquOnk	userDefined1, that's it	01:38
@preaction	did Scope::Guard's API change?	01:41
@preaction	or did i just not update	01:41
SquOnk	preaction: How about a Q&A and use the Question for the quote and Answer for the attribution?	01:52
SquOnk	...I guess it's the same anyway	01:53
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+perlDreamer	preaction: you need to update	01:54
@preaction	yeah, it's fixed now	01:54
+perlDreamer	Fork uses a new API for exporting a guard subroutine	01:54
@preaction	running a full run again	01:54
+perlDreamer	I had to update testE and gotchas.txt	01:54
SquOnk	What does "Make sticky" and "Lock" mean for a CS? (Sorry, I'm dumbed down by now)	02:07
@preaction	Sticky keeps it at the top. Lock means no more replies	02:08
SquOnk	preaction: Thanks!	02:08
@preaction	perlDreamer: if we implemented the revisionId thing, we could fix the sleeping in the run_asset.t, we could have multiple revisions in the same second	02:17
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+perlDreamer	yes	02:35
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, there used to be a Glossary page in the webgui Wiki that describes that kind of stuff	02:35
+perlDreamer	just in case your friendly oracular preaction isn't in the room	02:35
@preaction	SquOnk: also the Content Manager's guide	02:36
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+perlDreamer	preaction, how would you implement an AJAX version of www_editSave?	02:41
+perlDreamer	I don't know if it's possible, with all the commit, autocommit, commit comments and stuff	02:42
@preaction	why?	02:42
+perlDreamer	why what?	02:42
@preaction	why do you need one?	02:42
+perlDreamer	let's just say it wasn't my idea and that it has to be built	02:43
+perlDreamer	for example	02:43
+perlDreamer	purely hypothetically speaking	02:43
@preaction	... if it goes into core, it needs to go through me	02:43
@preaction	and there's no way in hell i would ever approve anything like it	02:43
+perlDreamer	this wouldn't be core	02:43
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@preaction	so i fix a problem in the stockdata test, but it also fixes a problem in the collaboration test?	05:14
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@preaction	one t/run_assets.t test fails :(	05:19
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@preaction	all t/run_asset.pl tests pass! i win!	07:06
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+perlDreamer	preaction: you still awake?	07:21
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qwebirc14318	hi, i'm doing a "perl testEncironment.pl".... and having problems installing Apache2::Request	14:30
qwebirc14318	Checking claims its not installed	14:33
qwebirc14318	when i try to install, it says "Apache2::Request is up to date (2.12)."	14:34
* qwebirc14318 afk for 10 mins....		14:37
* qwebirc14318 hopes someone read my message in the mean time ;-)		14:38
qwebirc14318	?	14:53
qwebirc14318	need more info? or you all dont know ?	14:53
qwebirc14318	or no one here................................................	14:53
Getty	sounds strange, but i cant help you on that	15:04
Getty	you need to wait for preaction	15:05
qwebirc14318	than i will try to put in on the forum......	15:07
qwebirc14318	thanks	15:07
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CIA-67	webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * rbb8753c / (7 files in 3 dirs): Better @INC fiddling and degenerate case for ProgressTree - http://bit.ly/blstWS	15:56
CIA-67	webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * ra4edea1 / (12 files in 7 dirs): Better integration of Fork into AssetHelpers, fork startup - http://bit.ly/d9q2T9	15:56
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CIA-67	webgui: Paul Driver master * r21ae5f0 / (7 files in 3 dirs): Better @INC fiddling and degenerate case for ProgressTree - http://bit.ly/b2HTJ4	15:58
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Haarg	frodwith, looks like you lost the -I in that patch	16:32
@frodwith	ach, you're right. Thanks.	16:33
SDuensin	Morning all.	16:42
CIA-67	webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * r03c935f / lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm : forkAndExec -I buggo - http://bit.ly/dbNAgv	16:42
CIA-67	webgui: Paul Driver master * r1de231b / lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm : forkAndExec -I buggo - http://bit.ly/cwBnd6	16:42
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+perlDreamer	morning scrottie	18:02
@scrottie	heya perlDreamer.	18:04
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r5473cb7 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/User.pm): Fix username's in the Edit User screen. Fixes bug # 11950 - http://bit.ly/caSzeQ	18:09
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5c40664 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/User.pm): Fix username's in the Edit User screen. Fixes bug # 11950 - http://bit.ly/cp7ZfY	18:09
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+perlDreamer	bartjol: you really don't want to edit users	18:38
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+bartjol	sure I do, make them nicer	18:40
+perlDreamer	is that in the profile tab?	18:41
+bartjol	well, the main tav	18:41
+bartjol	tab	18:41
+bartjol	sothe account tab	18:42
+perlDreamer	gotcha	18:42
+bartjol	and you are already able to edit the name	18:43
+perlDreamer	so, out of curiousity, how are you supposed to pronounce Huub?	18:43
+bartjol	you just see "0"	18:43
+perlDreamer	http://bit.ly/cp7ZfY <== that's your fix	18:43
+bartjol	the b like a soft "p"	18:43
+perlDreamer	and uu == oo ?	18:43
+bartjol	mmm, looks llike an icq invite url	18:43
+bartjol	no	18:44
+bartjol	not oo	18:44
+bartjol	thinking of a word	18:44
dreamersgirl	Bartjol: Tell him congratulations next time you see him!	18:45
+bartjol	I will	18:46
+perlDreamer	dreamersgirl: Fireplace inspection at 9:00am this morning	18:47
+bartjol	you don't have words with an "uu" sound	18:49
+perlDreamer	vacuum	18:49
dreamersgirl	Nice!	18:49
+bartjol	no, that is an oo/oe	18:49
dreamersgirl	is there a German word that has the sound?	18:49
+bartjol	yes	18:50
+bartjol	an u with an umluat	18:51
dreamersgirl	ah, yes. the sound we can't say. :)	18:51
* perlDreamer is bereft of European pronounciation ability		18:52
+perlDreamer	and I say "takko", too.	18:52
+bartjol	we have some more of those	18:54
+perlDreamer	yay, we passed inspection!	18:57
+bartjol	congratulations	18:58
dreamersgirl	:)	19:00
+bartjol	the perlDreamer go to http://barbapapa.hyves.nl/widget/48260389/HUUB_HUUB_HUUB_BARBATRUUK/B9qm/ at 2:20 it is said two times in a row	19:02
+perlDreamer	that cartoon implies that Huub means hoop in English. Is that true?	19:05
+bartjol	how does it imply that?	19:10
+bartjol	it is more an abracadabra kind of use	19:11
+perlDreamer	ah, I see	19:11
+bartjol	not really meaning anything	19:11
+perlDreamer	when he turns his head into a Lasso, it made me think "Hoop hoop"	19:11
@preaction	woot woot!	19:12
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@preaction	perlDreamer: you near portland? http://twitter.com/theory/status/1685834864529408	19:24
+perlDreamer	I'm here preaction: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1025+Northeast+36th+Avenue,+Hillsboro,+OR&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.178967,84.287109&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=1025+SE+36th+Ave,+Hillsboro,+Washington,+Oregon+97123&t=h&z=16	19:25
@preaction	oh nice	19:26
@preaction	there's a milwaukie?	19:26
+perlDreamer	yup	19:26
dreamersgirl	Three hour lecture is almost done. We're all lost. Not good.	19:26
+perlDreamer	even the teacher, dreamersgirl?	19:26
dreamersgirl	It's a happening place, too. ;-)	19:27
+perlDreamer	maybe I need to dust off my statistics books	19:27
+perlDreamer	milwaukee is getting light rail, too	19:27
dreamersgirl	this is musculoskeletal, not research.	19:27
dreamersgirl	test after test after test	19:27
dreamersgirl	you'd like it!	19:27
+perlDreamer	preaction: I don't think it's a coincidence that the hackathon is near Madison St, either	19:27
@preaction	heh	19:28
@preaction	actually because of WI's new governor, we may lose our high-speed rail project	19:28
dreamersgirl	Boo!	19:29
@khenn	why did I think you were closer to the ocean?	19:29
dreamersgirl	it's closer to the ocean that Madison is?	19:29
@khenn	for some reason I thought you could walk out the back door of the Kuskie home and spit on a sea lion	19:29
@khenn	I'm not sure you can get much farther away form an ocean than Wisconsin tbh	19:30
@khenn	s/form/from/	19:30
+perlDreamer	khenn, you can walk out the back door, hop on the light-rail, to go the zoo and spit on a sea lion	19:31
+perlDreamer	but they spit back	19:31
+perlDreamer	otherwise, you're 60 minutes from the ocean beachfront	19:31
+perlDreamer	75 minutes from skiing	19:32
+perlDreamer	and 45 minutes from Oregon wine country	19:32
@khenn	not bad	19:32
@khenn	we are about 17-18 hours from any ocean	19:32
dreamersgirl	that's a long way	19:32
@khenn	the closest being the sludge in the hudson bay area	19:32
@khenn	which I wouldn't consider ocean	19:33
@khenn	true ocean is probably a good 20 hrs+	19:33
@khenn	Atlantic City / Jersey shore I guess	19:33
@khenn	of course, when the asteroid hits we have a good chance of surviving the tidal wave	19:34
@khenn	=)	19:34
@khenn	we'll die of starvation a year or so later	19:34
dreamersgirl	Not in Wisconsin. You'll survive on deep fried cheese curd and beer.	19:35
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@khenn	I think I'd rather get hit by the tidal wave than be forced to survive on deep fried cheese =p	19:59
+perlDreamer	but there's beer, too!	20:02
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@preaction	we really need to have a toggle for user session tracking, especially for visitors. we do too much with it	23:32
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r76f32f3 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Don't consider a time zone when given a mysql style date, versus an epochal date. Fixes bug #11946. - http://bit.ly/bHr2ob	23:47
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * refdad48 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Don't consider a time zone when given a mysql style date, versus an epochal date. Fixes bug #11946. - http://bit.ly/c3qaJb	23:48
+perlDreamer	preaction: are there scaling issues with that table?	23:49
@preaction	well, every http request means a write to the userSession table, which is bad	23:53
@preaction	JT had in-memory sessions that would only flush after 5 minutes or so, which is better	23:53
--- Day changed Tue Nov 09 2010
+perlDreamer	sounds like a DoS attack waiting to happen	00:09
+perlDreamer	but probably faster than db writes	00:09
@preaction	DoS how?	00:10
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9e714fa / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix template variable help for Navigation, page.depthDiff. Fixes bug #11952. - http://bit.ly/9lmZcg	00:14
@preaction	i think i may have a 64-bit WRE compiling on OpenSUSE	00:14
@preaction	i've made it to the perl modules	00:15
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xdanger	Lazy session creation, as I talked earlier... Only create the session when something is writen to it (POST, setSratch, login)	00:16
+perlDreamer	well, if I know that each Visitor takes 50 kB, then if i can create 1000 Visitors in 5 minutes then I can slurp down 50 Mb from your site	00:16
+perlDreamer	on 1 machine, at 1 page fetch per second, that's 300 temporary sessions	00:16
+perlDreamer	and I'm pretty sure we can do better than 1 page fetch per second	00:17
+perlDreamer	but, you could do the same thing with dB writes	00:17
+perlDreamer	so I'm not sure it makes a difference	00:17
+perlDreamer	if you have enough users/browsers/bots whatever, you can flood a site and shut it down	00:18
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rcb828d6 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix template variable help for Navigation, page.depthDiff. Fixes bug #11952. - http://bit.ly/92Jlrr	00:19
xdanger	oh, what a depressing day... should go to sleep, but trying to figure something to keep me occupied	00:19
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@preaction	the only thing that changes in the WRE from platform to platform is the prereqs directory, correct?	03:35
CIA-67	wrebuild: Doug Bell master * r247014c / (build.sh getperlmodules.sh getsource.sh): successful compile on opensuse11 x64 (+6 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/d8Oplh	04:19
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elnino	hi!	04:41
scrottie0	hi!	04:58
elnino	is the read_limit for libapreq still 64M? anyone here know?	04:58
elnino	Hi scrottie@!	04:59
elnino	sure is quiet here tonight.	04:59
scrottie0	I often miss the good discussion due to a combination of not being a morning person and being in a western timezone.	05:00
elnino	me too.	05:02
scrottie0	it's probably better that way though.	05:02
elnino	alright! Time for sleep!	05:12
elnino	bye	05:12
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SDuensin	Greetings, Earthlings.	16:30
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym		19:11
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@preaction	so, if i'm changing addRevision so it no longer creates a tag, what all needs to create version tags? just www_addSave and www_editSave correct?	20:22
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+perlDreamer	preaction: in the core, I think that's all	20:33
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@preaction	okay, i first have to add tests for all the stuff in the Test::Class stuff that we don't yet test, like autocommit and such	20:35
@preaction	and then add tests for addSave, and then proceed, and then... etc...	20:35
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@preaction	then i can do currentRevisionId stuff in asset and remove those sleeps everywhere in our test code	20:36
@preaction	unless you want to do that one?	20:36
* perlDreamer is still ripping out Crud		20:40
+perlDreamer	Crud.t is passing	20:40
+perlDreamer	now I have to convert all the core classes to use the Moose style definitions	20:41
@preaction	ah, fun	20:42
@preaction	we should invest some time into Test::Sweet when we have some spare	20:46
@preaction	right now i want to have two different addSave tests, one for classes that have a specific type of child, and one for classes that can handle anything	20:46
@preaction	i suppose i could make a sub that the class could override...	20:47
+perlDreamer	no, not Test::Sweet	20:50
+perlDreamer	we should use RJBS's Moose test suite instead	20:50
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@preaction	Test::Routine?	20:51
+perlDreamer	crap	20:51
+perlDreamer	Yes	20:51
+perlDreamer	from what I've read, Test::Routine works better with prove than Test::Sweet	20:51
@preaction	either way, i want test roles	20:52
+perlDreamer	that'd be nice	20:52
* perlDreamer is tired of copy/pasting test setups		20:53
@preaction	indeed	20:53
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r897c2e0 / (4 files in 4 dirs): If a user does not have privacy data for a field, check back with the field for the privacy default. Fixes bug #11951. Added ProfileField cleanup code. - http://bit.ly/dmDQTx	21:08
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb44be87 / (4 files in 4 dirs): If a user does not have privacy data for a field, check back with the field for the privacy default. Fixes bug #11951. Added ProfileField cleanup code. - http://bit.ly/d85LUY	21:08
+perlDreamer	time for 15 minutes of test maintenance	21:09
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@preaction	that's another problem: we currently don't have a way to release a WRE at all...	21:13
+perlDreamer	huh?	21:13
@preaction	because we really should release 0.9.4 with updated deps and 64-bit	21:13
@preaction	the WRE build server has been dead for a year at least	21:14
+perlDreamer	ah, right	21:14
+perlDreamer	well, maybe we only need to release what people ask for	21:14
+perlDreamer	CentOS, Debian and ....?	21:14
+perlDreamer	MacOS X for PB folk	21:14
@preaction	the only holdup was OS X 10.6, and we could just not release that one	21:14
+perlDreamer	mmmm, having people developing on an old WRE, or only on source installs has caused problems in the past	21:15
Haarg	was 10.6 actually a problem, or was it just 10.6 32-bit?	21:16
@preaction	but WRE 1.0 is going to be completely different, and will be nearly no different from a source install	21:16
@preaction	i could not get OpenSSL to play nice with 10.6, but i haven't tried since January so i don't even remember why anymore	21:17
+perlDreamer	preaction: we'll have people doing 7.x code for a long time yet	21:17
@preaction	i know	21:17
+perlDreamer	so we need to provide a way for y'all to do safe, environmented dev	21:17
+perlDreamer	and, for better or worse, that's the WRE	21:18
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb2a9f4e / t/User.t : Move all User.t test cleanup out of the END block and into WebGUI::Test->addToCleanup. - http://bit.ly/cirR26	21:18
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1ff8907 / t/User.t : Move all User.t test cleanup out of the END block and into WebGUI::Test->addToCleanup. - http://bit.ly/coKS20	21:18
@preaction	i've been non-WRE since January, no problems so far	21:18
+perlDreamer	I know, but I'm just sayin'	21:18
@preaction	hmm... apeiron created a VirtualBox::Manage module to find, start, and stop VMs	21:22
+perlDreamer	time to dive into Pauls' PayPal drivers	21:24
+perlDreamer	since all PayPal drivers were written by one Paul or another	21:24
@preaction	why? bugs?	21:24
+perlDreamer	yeah, there's some issue with sales taxes not being displayed in the checkout screen	21:25
+perlDreamer	but that could be due to my rewrite, too	21:25
@preaction	did we decide that if an autocommitted child is added to an uncommitted parent that it needed to join the same version tag as the parent?	21:45
@preaction	it does that for non auto-committed children	21:46
+perlDreamer	yeah, that's what the code does currently	21:47
@preaction	i suppose i'm changing how that all works anyway	21:48
+perlDreamer	sounds like it	21:49
+perlDreamer	how is it going to work now, in 8?	21:49
@preaction	only www_addSave and www_editSave care about tags. if anything is autocommitted, you can prevent it if you have the power by unchecking the Approved box (even if the entire site is autocommit)	21:50
+perlDreamer	how does that work through the API?	21:50
+perlDreamer	or for assets like StoryManager, which have collateral assets like the dated sub-folders?	21:50
@preaction	addRevision doesn't create a tag. addRevisionToTag will use an existing tag	21:51
@preaction	all of that will be handled in addSave and editSave, not addRevision and/or processEditForm	21:51
* perlDreamer hopes you're writing all this up someplace		21:52
@preaction	the docs in the classes, silly	21:53
+perlDreamer	it was pointed out to me by someone that we usually document what a method does, rather than why it exists, how to use, or how it changes existing stuff	21:54
+perlDreamer	but I'll ready your docs before painting with a broad brush stroke	21:54
+perlDreamer	sometime after lunch	21:54
+perlDreamer	after PayPal	21:54
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+perlDreamer	after taking kids to the orthodontist	21:55
+perlDreamer	after making dinner	21:55
@preaction	how about after i write them? ;-)	21:55
+perlDreamer	ooh! even better	21:55
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scrottie	mornin', andy.	22:05
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@preaction	does Test::Routine use UNIVERSAL::isa as a function, not a method? I'm tired of wading through 10,000 lines of that warning for only 3000 tests...	22:12
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Haarg	i don't think that would matter preaction	22:39
@preaction	the autocommit/add to parent's tag thing?	22:40
Haarg	last time i looked into that, isa was being called as a method but UNIVERSAL::isa was warning anyway	22:40
@preaction	fun	22:41
Haarg	in the past i've just modified that module to entirely remove the warnings	22:41
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@preaction	also looks like we're going through with the Dashboard modernizations, yay!	00:36
@preaction	why do only some of the autocommit assets fail the run_asset.t tests?	00:49
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@preaction	but i got www_addSave and some refactoring done	00:52
CIA-67	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r17c540f / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : add more classy tests (+6 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/ay3Rxg	00:52
@preaction	so i'll move on to the addRevision and autocommit stuff to see if maybe the way we're doing it is making it evil to test	00:52
@preaction	and finally the currentRevisionId thing	00:52
+perlDreamer	if there's a better way to do currentRevisionId in the GalleryAlbum/Photo, it would be good	01:18
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Getty	ah stupid question, just curious, whats it about WebGUI and clustering? i guess one central DB and all is fine? or is it more complicated?	03:18
@preaction	what do you want to do?	03:19
@preaction	mysql itself is kinda tricky, but webgui will work fine in a multi-master mysql environment	03:19
Getty	classic situation, several webservers loadbalanced	03:19
@preaction	provided spectre only runs on one of them, you'll be fine	03:20
Getty	ah spectre is the "central"?	03:20
Getty	and all webgui communicate with it?	03:20
Getty	so if i have 10 webservers, i have one spectre and they all ask him for the data?	03:20
Getty	(talking about one site, not several sites)	03:20
@preaction	spectre runs certain things at certain times, spectre was not built to cooperate with other spectres, which is the real problem	03:21
@preaction	so if two spectres run, the same thing may get run twice	03:21
Getty	ok ok.. wait... back to standard web usage	03:21
Getty	lets say i have a site that is too big for 1 server	03:21
Getty	so i want to spread it over 2 webservers	03:21
@preaction	website will work just fine with however many nodes you want to throw at it	03:22
Getty	ok, and what is the "central point"? the database?	03:22
@preaction	just make sure that only one spectre is running	03:22
Getty	so they all just use the same database and i'm 100% fine?	03:22
@preaction	same things that you'd take a backup of: same uploads directory and same database	03:22
Getty	ah ok, uploads directory i must also spread	03:22
Getty	that is of course not so ideal	03:22
@preaction	so a NAS or something for the uploads directory, and a mysql multi-master db on another host	03:23
Getty	mh	03:23
Getty	not so cool if the uploads are required to be at "one point"	03:23
@preaction	you could do all the reading of uploads from a special node, with the other nodes only writing to that	03:23
Getty	dont you mean other around?	03:24
@preaction	there's also the built-in CDN stuff that can shard the uploads directory if you want	03:24
Getty	ah never did so much with CDN, but that sounds like an option then	03:24
@preaction	if you have opinions and/or suggestions on how the cdn stuff can be improved, let me know. i've heard reports of it being less than polished	03:29
Getty	i dont know if i reach the point to require it at all in the near time, i just wanted to be inform, cause i develop my webgui based products right now and want to be informed ;)	03:29
@preaction	but the cdn stuff should be able to handle simple sync between two network servers. i think there's an rsync recipe for it even	03:29
@preaction	iirc the idea of it is that anytime a storage location is created or updated, the cdn script gets called. the script can be/do anything you want	03:30
Getty	sounds productive	03:30
Getty	oh other question backup/restore, do i need to take care of uploads/database myself, or does webgui has some special stuff that also take cares of versions and other stuff?	03:31
@preaction	the upgrade.pl will autobackup the database. the WRE includes a backup.pl script that handles the whole thing, and if you want i've got a beta script that does local and remote backups with rsync	03:32
Getty	ok, i will come back to that	03:32
@preaction	but really all you need is /data/WebGUI, /data/domains, /data/wre/etc, and the databases with mysqldump	03:33
Getty	yeah just thinking of the version change case	03:35
Getty	so i got a webgui 7.x and backup it	03:35
Getty	and wanna restore it later on a webgui 7.x+1 which actually has some DB layout changes or something	03:35
@preaction	depends on how far you're going, but you can usually just add the db to the new server and run upgrade.pl and it will find the db that needs upgrading and do it	03:35
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Getty	ah cool ok thanks	03:37
Getty	i hope you guys like new products based on webgui ;)	03:37
@preaction	new products, new community members, new hosts, new contractors, i personally feel that anybody using webgui is helping webgui	03:37
Getty	right	03:41
Getty	i want to concentrate on idiot proof hosting of webgui	03:41
Getty	so that a moron can get his own webgui for his site in minutes	03:41
@preaction	then WebGUI 8 is going to be far better for you, as it allows easy overriding of things once not overridable	03:42
Getty	yes	03:42
@preaction	and i hope to have Flavors into 8.0.0 as well	03:42
Getty	we talked about that already	03:42
Getty	i mean you still got some time till i'm productive ready	03:42
Getty	if you arent done with 8.0 then i will use 7.x and just offer it later as upgrade	03:42
Getty	but best would be if its done when i'm done with the base ;)	03:42
Getty	even tho i must say: what i want most is the modern perl WebGUI (With DBIx::Class !!! we had the theme hehe)	03:43
@preaction	you and me both	03:45
Getty	hey, if you want help, i'm there	03:45
Getty	its just a very huge monster, and i dont want to help on basics	03:45
Getty	you know your product better	03:45
Getty	but if you say the base is clear, i'm more then happy to help porting stuff over to modern perl	03:46
@preaction	well, first i have to start with the bottom, build some basic crud routines for DBIC	03:46
Getty	there is lots of stuff already done, best is if you like with ribasushi on that theme	03:46
@preaction	but the Modern WebGUI stuff cannot be used as-is without breaking API promises	03:46
Getty	he is also a good friend of mine and very near to my position	03:47
Getty	(ribasushi is one of the core developers of DBIx::Class, actually he works on it 24/7)	03:47
@preaction	right now i'm adding things to the API, breaking APIs so that I can add my new, good stuff alongside the old, busted stuff and deprecate the old ways	03:47
Getty	yeah, i'm fresh, no legacy	03:47
Getty	so .... i'm free of that ;)	03:48
@preaction	we've got a lot of code to maintain, over and above the WebGUI itself	03:48
@preaction	and people will kill me if i break that code, so we take the slow, stable, enterprise way of doing things	03:49
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Getty	i know how i could help i think	03:56
Getty	i mean.. dont know how you work	03:56
Getty	but if you make a "requirement" list, and stuff that you do with database	03:57
Getty	i could go around and make research for you and checkout what possibilities we have with existing CPAN modules and test the features out	03:57
Getty	so that i can give you a nice sample package and make your work less stressy	03:57
Getty	just an offer	03:57
Getty	btw, you know KinoSearch?	03:57
@preaction	well, the way i want to sneak an ORM in is to stop the "Everything is an asset" mentality and start using ORM relationships. Threads have Posts, but Posts are not assets (they don't have their own URLs or entry in the Asset table)	03:58
Getty	yeah i already saw the problem	03:58
Getty	i just say "redirects" ;)	03:58
Getty	"why the fuck i can make a redirect as element of a page!"	03:58
@preaction	basically, yeah	03:59
Getty	yeah redirect is not the best example	03:59
Getty	but it shows the base problem of "everything is an asset"	04:00
@preaction	though redirects are kinda funny, and urls in webgui are kinda funny, but the problem is to have a URL you must be an asset	04:00
@preaction	to have an entry in the assetIndex so you are Searchable, you must be an asset	04:00
Getty	i must say: its not bad concept, its a very good base	04:00
@preaction	i may have been looking at kinosearch, this is the pure-perl search system right?	04:00
Getty	yes	04:00
Getty	and its also supported by a company now like your product	04:01
@preaction	yeah, i do like the Asset system, i just don't like the "everything must be an asset" mentality	04:01
Getty	and is in heavy development	04:01
Getty	(not development state)	04:01
Getty	i think its intersting to take a look at it	04:01
Getty	but if you dont do it, i will probably just try to make it as module	04:02
Getty	so you probably should not care and just give me the options in the modern construct to use it	04:02
@preaction	indeed, might be a lot easier to make as a dependency instead of using Sphinx as we've been leaning to	04:02
@preaction	i could add some configuration of a search module to our list, but the API you'd have to implement would be the same as the current one	04:03
Getty	whatever it takes ;) you cant scare me away	04:03
@preaction	i really want to get rid of every asset's individual search, and then replace search entirely with something good	04:03
Getty	Spectre is also a product part of WebGUI, right? its not a dependency you just use, or?	04:04
@preaction	the problem is i may not get to it before API freeze, which is really soon	04:04
@preaction	spectre is part of WebGUI and depends on it (or rather, WebGUI depends on Spectre)	04:04
Getty	Reflex it! in the modern version ;)	04:04
@preaction	is reflex ready yet?	04:05
Getty	i would say yes, even tho i dont use it already (i'm very bound to POE and dont have time right now to learn the new way)	04:05
Getty	but dngor is tending people to use it	04:05
@preaction	i wanted to use it back last December, but it was very new	04:06
Getty	historical seen it is new but just a new version of POE	04:06
Getty	same coder base, its even promoted on #poe channeltopic	04:07
Getty	and so i think its something that can be relied on	04:07
@preaction	yeah, lots has been done since last i saw. i've been thinking about what the next-gen spectre will be	04:09
Getty	so now you got it	04:09
Getty	:-)	04:09
Getty	i think there are also not really other options	04:09
Getty	Reflex will replace POE	04:09
Getty	and so there will be the most amount of coders working on it	04:09
Getty	Adam bot framework is already ported LOL ;)	04:10
Getty	ah... good idea... Spectre bot.... that will be one of my first modules ;)	04:10
Getty	having all spectre of the client servers on an IRC channel	04:10
Getty	and watch the activity a bit	04:10
Getty	oh oh.. yes	04:10
Getty	and XMPP connection	04:10
Getty	roar... hot	04:11
Getty	oh i also got another wish....	04:12
Getty	i dont suggest that you take it into concern from start, but you should have it in mind:	04:13
Getty	it would be awesome for the spreading of WebGUI if its also a regular CPAN module and can be installed via some installer script that is delivered with it	04:13
@preaction	we're working on that too. haarg's WGDev will become WebGUI::Command, and it will include commands to add/remove sites and other things	04:14
Getty	wonderful	04:14
Getty	cause that makes it more easy for the marketing movement of perl to include WebGUI	04:15
@preaction	indeed	04:15
Getty	right now its hard to promote something as "part of perl" if its not on CPAN	04:15
Getty	i said a sentence at cebit: "if its not on CPAN it doesnt exist"	04:15
@preaction	right now the problem is of dependencies, we have a huge number of them, and our tests won't run without them	04:15
Getty	so?	04:16
Getty	if i installed MooseX::POE i get around 300-400 dependencies	04:16
Getty	and can take a coffee if the system is fresh	04:16
@preaction	we also ship YUI	04:16
Getty	license problem for CPAN?	04:16
Getty	if, then we just need Alien::YUI	04:16
@preaction	not that i'm aware of, it's just a huge number of files that we don't really want to ship anymore	04:17
Getty	CPAN doesnt care that i can tell ;)	04:17
@preaction	so we're moving to a CDN by default, with a script to download a local copy	04:17
Getty	important is that i can use webgui after install via CPAN without any additional network requirement	04:17
Getty	the install may require network	04:18
Getty	but after the install it must work without	04:18
Haarg	part of the problem is some of the dependancies can't be gotten from cpan	04:18
Getty	that would be the best way for the marketing	04:18
Haarg	and when i say some of i really just mean imagemagick	04:18
Getty	why it cant be gotten from CPAN?	04:18
Haarg	the imagemagick that exists on cpan pretty much doesn't work	04:19
Getty	then lets fix it	04:19
Getty	problem => solution	04:19
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0acdcbc / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix display of taxes in several payment confirmation screens. - http://bit.ly/dcxDzF	04:20
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb24d3fe / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix display of taxes in several payment confirmation screens. - http://bit.ly/c7Do2D	04:21
+perlDreamer	Getty, there are other perl solutions that you can't get from CPAN.	04:22
Haarg	i already started working on replacing imagemagick with Imager but it would involve re-writing a bunch of the graph system	04:22
+perlDreamer	CPAN is awesome, but it's not everything	04:22
Getty	what is missing we can add	04:22
+perlDreamer	you can't compile many modules without development libraries	04:22
+perlDreamer	well, right now you can't add WebGUI	04:22
Getty	yeah i know	04:22
Getty	i suggested that you didnt put it on CPAN out of evil thinking ;)	04:22
Getty	i suggested that there are reasons	04:23
Getty	but we can move towards to fix them step by step	04:23
Getty	just wanted to hear that you WANT it on CPAN, and not deny it out of concept	04:23
+perlDreamer	it would be awesome to have WebGUI on CPAN	04:24
Haarg	imagemagick is the biggest stumbling block at this point	04:24
+perlDreamer	and to have it run on shared hosting	04:24
+perlDreamer	and to have President Obama use it	04:24
Getty	ok thats a word	04:24
@preaction	shared hosting is a fever dream and i don't care about it	04:24
Getty	actually: the last sentence is on the target list	04:24
Getty	i want that WebGUI crushs the market of Typo3 and Drupal	04:24
@preaction	we have the State Department, which is the best department	04:24
Getty	i'm an old php coder, 13 years PHP, did an own framework in it, but since 3 years only perl	04:24
Getty	(or nearly, just manage some legacy php)	04:25
Getty	and i want to crush Typo3, i hate it	04:25
Getty	but its market "leader"	04:25
Getty	and that doesnt make sense	04:25
Getty	its shit	04:25
Getty	;)	04:25
Getty	i already showed WebGUI to a company that is right now mainly using Typo3	04:25
Getty	and they said: yes thats cool, we want that	04:25
Getty	(just by using your demo installation)	04:25
@preaction	if we can beat them with our current state, i can only imagine how things will be when i get done with what i want to get done	04:26
+perlDreamer	you must be a good salesman	04:26
Haarg	yui, tinymce, and the icon set that was added are another problem. yui is the easiest to deal with, tinymce can't be fixed yet, icons i don't have a good answer.	04:26
@preaction	Haarg: bad licensing on the icon set?	04:26
Getty	actually i'm a coder, but i'm realistic, so i dont think only like a coder, i think also like a "user"	04:26
Haarg	the number of files	04:26
Getty	CPAN doesnt care about files amount?	04:26
+perlDreamer	how about if tar them up, and untar on install?	04:26
Getty	YUI and TinyMCE can get Alien:: packages	04:27
Getty	share/ directory	04:27
Getty	special files goes into share/ and u use ShareDir ;)	04:27
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Getty	http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?File::ShareDir	04:27
Haarg	yes, that is how it would be done. but when you have 1000s of files it is problematic to deal with.	04:27
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Getty	Haarg: haha.... chicken! ;)	04:27
Getty	Haarg: i will try to help on that very massive, i love to make CPAN modules	04:28
Getty	and since i use Dist::Zilla.............. oh man.... i can produce them in minutes	04:28
Getty	Dist::Zilla is the best shit since the best shit since the best shit since sliced bread	04:29
Haarg	preaction, what would you think of pulling tinymce out of core and making the rich editor plugable?	04:29
Getty	Haarg++!	04:29
@preaction	Haarg: i would enjoy it very much	04:29
Haarg	have the default editor use YUI's since that provides enough for most people	04:29
Getty	i think	04:30
@preaction	as i would LOVE a Markdown editor to use in the Wiki	04:30
Getty	we have a perl Rich Text editor	04:30
Haarg	because tinymce can't be put on a cdn	04:30
Getty	Haarg: can you make a list of stuff that you cant get from CPAN and put it on some wiki page i can also edit?	04:31
Haarg	it's really only imagemagick	04:31
Getty	ok	04:31
Getty	so if i solve that for you, we will get good friends? ;)	04:31
Haarg	yui tinymce and icons are a different problem and need core work	04:31
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+perlDreamer	preaction: do you have any pending commits for 7.9?	05:01
@preaction	nope	05:01
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r3891d66 / (26 files in 11 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.18 release. - http://bit.ly/bdVD4c	05:52
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+perlDreamer	hm, demo site usage is up	06:46
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0e491d6 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.19 bug-fixing. - http://bit.ly/9XEd65	07:04
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--- Log closed Wed Nov 10 07:15:53 2010
--- Log opened Wed Nov 10 07:37:13 2010
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:30
@khenn	morning!	16:45
SDuensin	That it is.	16:48
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+perlDreamer	preaction: why isn't findBrokenAssets a Workflow Activity?	17:23
+perlDreamer	and Admin Console plugin?	17:23
+perlDreamer	it's a great commandline tool for admins, but it's a more powerful tool in the hands of users.	17:27
+bartjol	mmm, that great script (with the option --fix) says my asset is fixed in the output (after which the script breaks)	17:54
+bartjol	still has a none-existing paernt	17:54
+bartjol	and apparently the script doesn't recognise it's broken state	17:54
+bartjol	the script seems to actually move it to the import node	17:58
+bartjol	eeeh, it should do that I mean	17:58
+perlDreamer	bartjol, I don't know if it checks for non-existant parent	18:10
+bartjol	well	18:10
+perlDreamer	but we can make it do that	18:10
+bartjol	Martin said it might have to do with the state of the asset	18:11
+bartjol	I removed it manually now	18:11
+bartjol	not the best-practise solution	18:11
+bartjol	but it works	18:11
+bartjol	annd there is a cgheck:	18:11
+bartjol	# Make sure we have a valid parent	18:11
+bartjol	unless ( WebGUI::Asset->newByDynamicClass( $session, $row{parentId} ) ) {	18:11
+perlDreamer	diff?	18:12
+bartjol	eeh, diff between this and what	18:12
+bartjol	?	18:12
+perlDreamer	if you send me a diff of the script, I'll add it in to the core	18:13
+bartjol	aah	18:13
+perlDreamer	diff it against the git repo	18:13
+bartjol	I didn't make any changes yet	18:13
+bartjol	maybe I can try and make it, depends on the action we want	18:14
+bartjol	if the asset can�t be instantiated, it should try to fix it	18:15
+bartjol	or	18:16
+bartjol	do nothing and give a notification	18:16
+bartjol	and apparently my asset wasn good:	18:18
+bartjol	/data/WebGUI/sbin# perl findBrokenAssets.pl --configFile=www.kojaki.nl.conf --fix	18:18
+bartjol	-- Corrupt: cp9EoYTkiFylo5M3TqdsOA Fixed.	18:18
+bartjol	Can't call method "setParent" on an undefined value at findBrokenAssets.pl line 101.	18:18
+bartjol	oh yeah, this is what the pastebin is for	18:18
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elnino	Hello! Is there ANYONE here willing to provide webgui hosting for a non-profit for around $10?	18:21
elnino	Please???	18:21
elnino	it's a small site, small bandwith.	18:22
+perlDreamer	if the asset has a broken parent, move it to the mediaNode	18:22
elnino	no support needed. And I have the files for the site.	18:23
+bartjol	it says that yeah	18:23
+bartjol	sorry, elnino	18:23
+perlDreamer	elnino, I'm not a hoster, so I'm sorry too	18:24
+bartjol	well we are, but I can offer it for $10	18:24
+bartjol	only on my test host, which I do use as a test host, and that feels like going over Koen? back	18:25
+bartjol	so not offering that either (besides from the frequent outs, that you?l suffer)	18:26
elnino	Thanks bartjol. We're talking 200 visitors a month.	18:28
elnino	and proabably most of that is me and my client.	18:28
@preaction	elnino: pb has a $20/mo unsupported	18:29
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf826cb8 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Handle assets that can't be instanciated in ExtendCalendarRecurrences. Fixes bug #11956. - http://bit.ly/b3YlcP	18:35
+bartjol	but, perlDreamer should I report that as a bug?	18:39
+perlDreamer	bartjol: yes	18:39
elnino	preaction - yep, I know. But he is so small, he just can't afford that.	18:39
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rce7a739 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Handle assets that can't be instanciated in ExtendCalendarRecurrences. Fixes bug #11956. - http://bit.ly/cDCDUN	18:46
elnino	question.. client moved all her stuff to a new server. and also upgraded from 7.7.28 to 7.9.16. I never set APREQ2_ReadLimit in any of her modperl files, and was able to upload 50M files up.	18:49
elnino	on the new server we are being limited to about 25M. I believe.	18:49
Getty	do i get prize for bring new perl dudes in here? ;)	18:49
elnino	was that variable redefined in the apache conf or mod_perl somewhere, so the defaultlimit was lowered?	18:49
Getty	hehe	18:50
elnino	in the wre package?	18:50
+perlDreamer	elnino, iirc, the default limit is 25M	18:52
+perlDreamer	so you'll have to reset it the modperl.conf file	18:52
elnino	was that lowered?	18:52
+perlDreamer	she used the WRE in both cases?	18:53
@preaction	Getty: if they're using Webgui, yes indeed	18:54
+perlDreamer	and you're sure that the WebGUI setting for max file size didn't change?	18:54
elnino	well, on the old server we did. The new server, I'm not possitive because someone else setup the server. I'm really HOPEING they did.	18:54
elnino	in the admin->settings? or is there a new variable in the conf files?	18:54
* preaction can't wait until we throw mod_perl off to never-never land		18:54
+perlDreamer	Admin settings	18:54
Getty	preaction: i try to make a bit promo for it, its good that you tend to go modern perl, thats always a good argument	18:54
elnino	admin settings yes, we made it rediculusly high. Unless webgui doesn't like that and made it small on us.	18:55
Getty	btw, can someone point me to some information about payment support in webgui? i saw you have it, but want to checkout what i can do with it and what layer is offered there and so on	18:55
@preaction	yeah, the main reason i have never talked about WebGUI at a YAPC is that I find myself apologizing about things too much, i want to not have to do that anymore	18:55
Getty	preaction: HAHAHA	18:55
Getty	preaction: i must say, i feel a bit ashamed that i didnt promoted it on cebit	18:55
Getty	preaction: i didnt know much about it at this time, and cause it wasnt on CPAN "it doesnt existed" for me	18:56
+perlDreamer	Getty: we support ITransact, PayPal and Ogone for payment support	18:56
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Getty	mh ITransact and Ogone i dont even know	18:56
+perlDreamer	ITransact handles recurring transactions, and I belive that Ogone does, too	18:56
@preaction	ITransact is rebranded under multiple names, iirc	18:56
Getty	i must think of german market a bit more intense	18:56
@preaction	Ogone is a european payment gateway	18:56
+perlDreamer	Recurring transactions for PayPal are supposed to be available in 7.10, if MrHairgrease has time	18:56
Getty	is there a standard layer for payment systems?	18:56
Getty	so that i can extend it for more payment concepts?	18:56
@preaction	yes, you can write your own paydriver	18:57
Getty	ah cool	18:57
@preaction	we have an Authorize.net one that hasn't been added to core	18:57
@preaction	also there's Business::Payment, if you write a PayDriver that uses Business::Payment, you'd have a lot of paydrivers	18:58
@preaction	er. Business::OnlinePayment	18:58
Getty	ah ok :)	18:58
Getty	sounds like a good TODO	18:58
Getty	i must see	18:58
Getty	the problem is german market about online payment is 100% fucked up	18:58
Getty	do you know any german company working with WebGUI? or german dudes who work commercially with it?	18:59
@preaction	there were a couple people, there's that german forum on webgui.org	19:00
Getty	ah ok	19:00
Getty	forum.... baeh ;)	19:00
+perlDreamer	whoa, all of a sudden it's Jan 5, 2011!	19:00
elnino	perldreamer.. just to confirm, you mean the sitename.modperl.conf file right? or are we supposed to set APREQ2_ReadLimit in thel modperl.conf file?	19:01
+perlDreamer	elnino: according to this wiki page, it's sitename.modperl.conf http://www.webgui.org/wiki/server-won-t-upload-big-files	19:02
elnino	I wrote that.. =)	19:03
elnino	I may be leading my self down the wrong path.	19:03
elnino	I think I got the inital info from threads.	19:03
elnino	on the forum.	19:03
elnino	I'll try the actual modperl.conf	19:04
+perlDreamer	maybe the wiki page needs to be updated	19:05
elnino	definately if I'm wrong. Its just throwing me off that the two servers are behainv differently, when the ReadLimit variable wasn't defined in either.	19:05
+bartjol	eee, I don believe site configs for modperl have .conf at the end of the filename	19:13
+bartjol	in wre	19:14
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jigou	Elnino: I've got that value configured in my actual modperl.conf file, set at 125M. THEN update the setting in the site settings also.	19:36
+perlDreamer	You know you've been writing perl too long when....	19:50
+perlDreamer	... you end sentences with ; instead of '.'	19:50
+perlDreamer	preaction: you win!	19:53
@preaction	yay! what do i win!	19:53
+perlDreamer	The award for smallest object module	19:54
+perlDreamer	it doesn't have any methods at all	19:54
@preaction	hurm?	19:54
+perlDreamer	AssetCollateral/Sky/ThingyRecord	19:54
@preaction	awesome!	19:54
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+perlDreamer	The conversion to Moose may make it even smaller	19:56
+perlDreamer	I win the award for 2nd smallest module	19:59
+perlDreamer	PassiveAnalytics/Rule.pm	19:59
+perlDreamer	1 method	19:59
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+perlDreamer	preaction: I'm running tidy on some these ex C::IO modules, and it seems pretty good so far	20:25
@preaction	cool	20:26
@preaction	i've got addRevision deborked, running the whole test suite now. run_asset.t is still borked for some autocommit assets but not others	20:26
+perlDreamer	there's a lot of evil autocommit hackery in some Assets	20:27
+perlDreamer	and addRevision	20:27
+perlDreamer	the Gallery is the worst offender, iirc	20:27
@preaction	yeah, bur run_asset.t was running the same failures before and after my changes, the rest of the suite is failing hard though	20:28
+perlDreamer	hm	20:28
@preaction	because it all assumes that tags need to be committed, but if you don't make the asset pending, it'll never be committed	20:29
@preaction	hmm... commit does things...	20:29
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+perlDreamer	who knows that evil that lies in the hearts of commit?	20:33
@preaction	i suppose i should default status to 'approved' instead of blank	20:35
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elnino	Thank you jigou!!	21:18
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+perlDreamer	preaction: finally got to the point of running the top level test suite for the Crud_removal branch	21:24
+perlDreamer	if it passes, it's done	21:24
@preaction	awesome	21:24
+perlDreamer	if it doesn't, well, we don't think about things like that	21:24
@preaction	i'm listening to Frank's talk on Scrumm, which is really interesting	21:25
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't mind doing that on 8	21:26
@preaction	thinking about how to write an app to do the scrummaster stuff for me	21:26
+perlDreamer	having daily talks about a project helps keep me focused	21:26
@preaction	it might be nice if we both keep together as a team too, spend tuesday and only tuesday on 7, ending with the release, and the rest of the time on 8	21:27
@preaction	so two of us on tuesday instead of one of us on monday/tuesday	21:27
+perlDreamer	what would you want me to do on Monday?	21:28
@preaction	8	21:28
elnino	jigou... Did you just add APREQ2_ReadLimit 1024M anywhere? or do I have to encapsulate it with some If statement?	21:35
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jigou	elnino: no "if" statement required. Give me a sec and I'll grab the whole chunk....	21:43
elnino	I would think it would work in both the modperl.conf and the sitename.modperl.conf, since modperl includes all the sitename.modperl.conf files. But I don't know much about all this.	21:45
jigou	elnino: http://webgui.pastebin.com/0CWNEZ6V - lines 26-29 are how I've got it listed in my conf file. I included the rest to show that it's loading the mod_apreq2.so module	21:49
elnino	oh. I don't have mod_apreq2 being loaded anywhere, could that be my problem with my code and faulty wiki I wrote? =)	21:51
elnino	opps. sorry, it's there.	21:51
@preaction	has to be there or webgui would't work ;)	21:52
elnino	k I'm trying this all again on my serves. Thanks!	21:53
elnino	s/serves/servers	21:53
+perlDreamer	back up, locate wall, run forward again	21:58
+perlDreamer	time for a lunch break	21:58
@preaction	down to 60 open tickets for 8	21:59
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@preaction	i just broke nearly all of webgui! yay!	22:09
@preaction	consensus: Can I get rid of the Style Wizard?	22:27
@preaction	also, would $session->tag work better than WebGUI::VersionTag->getWorking( $session );?	22:29
@tavisto	Softlayer just merged with The Planet	22:30
@preaction	yeah, that explained all their fuckups recently	22:30
elnino	preaction - I would be slightly sad to see the stylewizard go, but I understand why, and wouldn't hold it against you. =)	22:34
@preaction	you use it? it creates style templates i wouldn't wish on my worst enemies	22:34
jigou	lol @ preaction	22:34
elnino	It's a starting code for me.	22:35
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@preaction	okay, but we have 6 of them in there now, and i want at least 6 more	22:37
elnino	oh. I just use the very very basic one. I have a lady that just like to create the banners using xheader and then I pick colors via the style wizard and I'm done. But again I'm talking about 7.7.x	22:39
@preaction	ah, you should think about upgrading	22:39
elnino	lol. yes yes.	22:42
@preaction	consensus: Locked By sucks in how it works. Would it be better to have a "Locked For Group: <groupId>" that would restrict editing until someone in that group unlocked it?	22:56
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elnino	preaction - we don't use groups much, my users are too small. we're all in the content managers.	22:59
@preaction	in that case, locked by doesn't work at all. your content managers can join the tag and commit it, or work on it in that tag	22:59
elnino	I think it would be more helpful for it to tell us which version tag is locking it.	22:59
@preaction	it's like that for most things. locking only makes someone have to click more to lock something	22:59
@preaction	that's different, that's an actual edit lock, and it's important	23:00
@preaction	the "Lock" menu item just establishes an edit lock	23:00
@preaction	creates a version tag	23:00
elnino	oh then I don't know what youre referring to.	23:00
@preaction	but does not prevent anyone from actually editing the asset	23:00
elnino	are you referring to when a person doesn't have sufficent permissiosn to edit something?	23:01
@preaction	no, i mean when they DO have permissions, but the asset should still not be edited	23:02
@preaction	something important, for example	23:02
elnino	oh. I don't come across that situation, or use that feature.	23:03
@preaction	i'm betting most people don't, since it doesn't really do anything different that editing the asset normally doesn't do	23:03
@preaction	in fact, i'm pretty sure it's broken for any site that has autocommit turned on	23:03
elnino	but i see it in the menu! =)	23:03
@preaction	perlDreamer: why does importAssetData make a special case if the passed-in properties contains status => "pending", shouldn't the revision being created always be pending?	23:06
@preaction	i'm asking because you're to git blame for it	23:06
+perlDreamer	preaction, I don't remember. Does the git commit contain a comment, changelog notice or test?	23:11
@preaction	says what the comment above says	23:12
@preaction	someone also just updated PerlMagick in CPAN	23:13
+perlDreamer	see bug #9686	23:14
+perlDreamer	Importing a package twice locks assets forever.	23:14
+perlDreamer	if the asset is not pending, but the package is, then there's no tag attached to it, and it can't ever be committed?	23:14
+perlDreamer	basically, exporting pending asset is bad, and this is a workaround	23:15
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+perlDreamer	but that's all reverse engineering what I'm seeing there	23:15
@preaction	ahh	23:16
@preaction	so yes, the problem is that importPackage should force "pending", as we are doing a revision	23:16
@preaction	i guess i'll try to explain the new Version Tag and you stop me if anything sounds horrible:	23:17
* perlDreamer has to go to pick up kids		23:17
+perlDreamer	but I'll backlog	23:17
@preaction	ok	23:17
@preaction	a www_ method or a user script creates a VersionTag. The version tag is then setWorking, which makes it the current context for other methods to use to add revisions	23:18
@preaction	other methods can then either use or ignore that context, or if they really feel it necessary, create their own context	23:23
@preaction	the end being that nobody is forced into any version tag at all, making shuffling around tags simple	23:23
@preaction	right now i'm just making the tests pass by adding the missing bits, but then i'm gonna go around and refactor all the ugliness	23:24
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elnino	soo. if my client has a gmail account. Can I setup the smtp server unders settings to smtp.gmail.com and it'll work? that doesn't seem right.	00:04
@preaction	gmail probably requires authentication	00:05
elnino	yes, and I just saw the rfe	00:05
@preaction	but you could set up sendmail to auth to the gmail server as it's forwarding	00:05
+perlDreamer	preaction, lots of methods depended on addRevision making a tag for them	00:05
+perlDreamer	how does it work now?	00:05
@preaction	perlDreamer: addRevision does not make a tag for them, there wasn't many in the core, but there are a lot in the tests	00:06
@preaction	there will be an addRevisionToTag( $tag, props ) method created to continue the trend of adding convenience APIs over simple ones	00:06
+perlDreamer	brb	00:07
@preaction	still trying to figure out if I want $session->tag to create a new tag if there is none already, like getWorking does, or require that you pass in the tag if you want to create one	00:07
@preaction	i suppose it could be my $tag = $session->tag \|\| $session->tag( properties for new tag );	00:07
+perlDreamer	what about, $session-hasTag to see if one is currently active?	00:10
+perlDreamer	preaction, two things	00:15
+perlDreamer	1) we should probably do this over audio, since I'm still not getting it	00:15
+perlDreamer	2) It would probably help to walk through several use cases	00:15
+perlDreamer	like, standard Asset add, autocommitted asset add, adding an asset to a parent that's pending, etc.	00:15
elnino	thanks preaction. bye	00:15
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@preaction	perlDreamer: i'm not done with everything, but I can push what I have. it breaks all the tests, but it should work	00:28
+perlDreamer	uh, don't break tests	00:28
+perlDreamer	then I won't be able to tell what breaks when I try to merge Crud	00:29
@preaction	ok	00:29
+perlDreamer	I just have no idea how the changes to the API are supposed to work	00:29
@preaction	i'll provide some examples, as there will now be an autocommitted role, not all assets will have getAutocommitWorkflowId	00:30
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+perlDreamer	preaction: do you think it's a problem if our accessors return unsafe references?	01:17
+perlDreamer	once that is resolved, I'm one test file away from Cruddiness in the core	01:19
+perlDreamer	foosball break	01:56
+perlDreamer	preaction, if you have time, we could use a 4th	01:56
@preaction	perlDreamer: i think it'll be fine if they return unsafe refs provided it's told in the docs	01:58
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+perlDreamer	yeah, I agree	02:16
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+perlDreamer	dinner time	02:46
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+perlDreamer	preaction, there's something wrong with the Crud property metaclass, but it's easy to work around	03:51
+perlDreamer	I plan on merging in tomorrow, if I can figure out what's up	03:51
+perlDreamer	then, my master, you may assign me something else	03:51
+perlDreamer	together we shall rule the world, as father and son!	03:51
+perlDreamer	well, except that I'm older than you, and not wearing a mechanical breather	03:52
+perlDreamer	and neither of us can use the Force	03:52
@preaction	well, we do need a new demo system	03:52
@preaction	WebGUI::Demo and demo.psgi	03:53
@preaction	i'd like it to save a cookie so that it remembers what my demo site is and doesn't force me to remember	03:53
Haarg	with WebGUI as a CPAN module, how should i handle etc ?	03:53
+perlDreamer	but what if it expires?	03:53
@preaction	perlDreamer: then it presents to me the form to create a new demo site	03:54
@preaction	i also want it to accept multiple config/database sets	03:54
@preaction	and let me choose	03:54
+perlDreamer	wouldn't it be better to do more core work?	03:54
+perlDreamer	there are templates to convert	03:54
+perlDreamer	and all sorts of other stuff	03:54
@preaction	if you want, sure. up to you	03:54
@preaction	but when we get a demo system going, we can have the General Public giving us bug reports	03:55
@preaction	so yes, perhaps we should wait until we're ready for bug reports	03:55
@preaction	Haarg: i don't know, perhaps #perl knows about precedent?	03:56
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Haarg	usually it seems to be /etc/blah or where when creating a site you would specify a location	03:57
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym		19:13
+perlDreamer	and ponders the plight of Moosie Crud	19:13
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+perlDreamer	preaction: will you be around in an hour or so?	23:32
+perlDreamer	I may have need of your advanced debugging and hacking skills, yet again	23:33
@preaction	surely	23:34
+perlDreamer	I figured it out	23:48
+perlDreamer	It's Test::Deep::NoTest	23:48
+perlDreamer	it exports a set method	23:48
+perlDreamer	which is breaking WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Survey::Test	23:49
+perlDreamer	since WebGUI::Definition::Role::Object also has a set method	23:58
+perlDreamer	preaction, Haarg, I'd like to replace Test::Deep::NoTest with Data::Compare or some similar module that doesn't pollute namespaces	23:59
+perlDreamer	objections or alternate modules?	23:59
@preaction	perhaps use Test::Deep::NoTest qw()?	23:59
@preaction	or Storable nfreeze?	23:59
--- Day changed Fri Nov 12 2010
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+perlDreamer	no	00:00
+perlDreamer	It exports everything	00:00
+perlDreamer	I'll try it, but we'll see	00:00
+perlDreamer	grrr	00:02
+perlDreamer	time to test, merge and retest!	00:02
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+perlDreamer	tests pass, time to merge	00:23
@preaction	yay!	00:23
+perlDreamer	wow	00:23
+perlDreamer	that's never happened before	00:23
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7dc51b6 / (25 files in 20 dirs): Merge branch 'Crud' into WebGUI8 (+22 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/9m9O51	00:24
+perlDreamer	completely clean merge	00:24
+perlDreamer	preaction: are all tests passing for you currently?	00:24
@preaction	no, because i broke them a lot	00:24
@preaction	but i DID fix the other tests	00:24
@preaction	before i went and broke them again	00:25
+perlDreamer	hm, you'll have to let me know if what I see is any different from what you're seeing then	00:25
+perlDreamer	did you merge in this new code?	00:25
@preaction	no, i didn't want to screw you up	00:25
@preaction	but we can talk about the new addRevision/VersionTag stuff if you want	00:25
+perlDreamer	yeah!	00:27
+perlDreamer	give me a few minutes, then I'm good	00:27
@preaction	apparently i screwed something real bad, wgd tries to clear out the example assets and then hangs forever, unkillable	00:28
@preaction	or just weirdly hung	00:29
+perlDreamer	alright, I'm back	00:35
@preaction	so did you still want to skype about it? or should i just give some examples on how the new stuff works?	00:36
+perlDreamer	let's try some example, and I'll only suck down your time if I need it	00:36
+perlDreamer	so, for example, adding a new asset	00:36
@preaction	so if you don't care about tagging or committing, say you're building an install script, all you need now is addChild( { props} ) or addRevision( { props } ). the new asset/revision is automatically the most recent	00:37
@preaction	if you have an existing tag, you (currently) pass in the tagId and status => "pending" as properties	00:38
@preaction	and then you setVersionLock	00:38
@preaction	those are the two options. with and without tags	00:38
@preaction	now, the www_editSave method adds more to that	00:38
+perlDreamer	wait	00:38
+perlDreamer	what if I care about tagging and committing?	00:38
+perlDreamer	like in almost every test in the whole suite :)	00:39
@preaction	that's the second option. you give addChild or addRevision a tagId and a status => "pending"	00:39
@preaction	i'm currrently rewriting the test suite to do exactly that	00:39
@preaction	once i'm done, i'll finally have done enough to know how I want addRevisionToTag to work	00:39
@preaction	(the layer that does the same stuff for you)	00:40
@preaction	so right now, addRevision does only one thing: it adds a revision with the data you tell it to	00:40
+perlDreamer	so, before, revisions and tags were tied together. Now they're not?	00:40
+perlDreamer	you can have an untagged revision?	00:40
@preaction	you can have an untagged revision	00:40
+perlDreamer	is this something that we'll expose through the API to the user?	00:41
@preaction	how do you mean?	00:41
+perlDreamer	will the user be able to make untagged revisions?	00:41
@preaction	to the user, there will still always be a tag, for now, because no tags would break expectations	00:41
@preaction	i haven't gotten to that part yet, right now www_editSave and www_addSave have the bulk of the code I removed from addRevision()	00:42
+perlDreamer	okay	00:43
@preaction	in the future, it may be that any asset that is autocommitted just by itself has no tag, but that may wreak havoc on any child assets added to that asset	00:43
@preaction	because in the future, approval will work on revisions, not on tags	00:43
@preaction	we're de-emphasizing tags for everything. tags will be used to group revisions for staging prior to commit, that's it	00:44
+perlDreamer	it almost sounds like a revision is something made by 1 person, where a tag can be shared among many CM's	00:44
@preaction	right	00:44
@preaction	a tag is becoming a bad name for it, Bricolage calls them Desks i believe, but Stages would be a better name	00:45
+perlDreamer	yeah, that's because Bricolage is built around a publishing industry model.	00:45
+perlDreamer	so, for the first stage of this project, it's just possible to have tagless revisions. It's not actually used anywhere.	00:47
@preaction	right	00:47
@preaction	even the upgrade system will create a tag, like it already does	00:47
@preaction	packages will still use tags	00:48
@preaction	cut and copy and paste still use them	00:48
@preaction	but like the rest of the stuff we're doing, we're just making simpler things possible	00:48
@preaction	now, the code to actually work with revisions and put them in tags is a little more verbose, but it's explicit rather than implicit	00:49
+perlDreamer	well, if addRev doesn't make one anymore, it would have to be	00:49
@preaction	so after i get the tests passing, i'm gonna go back and write new convenience APIs for addRevisionToTag( tag, props ), addChildToTag( tag, props )	00:49
@preaction	and those methods will also help us with the cloneFromDb problem that tags have, the tag will keep the instance of the asset around	00:49
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdb51217 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Fix double my syntax warning in Asset.pm - http://bit.ly/cgL6A8	00:50
+perlDreamer	hm, so if two people are working on the same tag	00:51
+perlDreamer	and one changes an asset, his tag gets updated with the new asset	00:51
+perlDreamer	what about the other guy?	00:51
+perlDreamer	I guess on the next page fetch it will be fine	00:51
+perlDreamer	since the tag gets rebuilt	00:51
+perlDreamer	but, if these things are cached in memory anywhere, bad things will happen	00:51
@preaction	i was thinking more for the use-case that the tests have: create a bunch of assets, commit the tag, then refetch from the database	00:52
+perlDreamer	so now we build assets in a tag, commit the tag, and refetch from the tag?	00:52
@preaction	they won't be cached in memory, this would be more for when the tag and revisions are created and committed in the same request	00:52
@preaction	so maybe that one's a little off-the-mark	00:53
+perlDreamer	okay, it was starting to sound like address/address book caching, which was really bad	00:53
@preaction	eh, it's just in SQLAlchemy (python ORM) i can do exactly that, but i think that's because yeah, you technicaly get all the rows from the Session (which doubles as transaction handler)	00:55
@preaction	so when we move assets to an ORM, the ORM would handle the versioning/tagging, and then there'd be peace and no cloneFromDb needed	00:55
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure I believe that	00:56
+perlDreamer	objects will always need to be updated	00:56
+perlDreamer	unless we have singleton objects	00:56
@preaction	you'd ask the ORM "hey, get me this object" the ORM would look and say "oh, we have one of these already, with changes, so here."	00:57
+perlDreamer	okay	00:57
@preaction	or you'd ask "get me all objects matching these params", ORM says "hey, this ID looks familiar... why not take this one we have already?"	00:57
+perlDreamer	so code-wise, I make a tag, make assets and add them to the tag, then commit the tag, and get updated copies from the tag	00:57
@preaction	well no, right now you cloneFromDb like normal	00:58
+perlDreamer	okay	01:00
+perlDreamer	and the path where a tag can be skipped is possible, but not recommended now	01:00
@preaction	possible and recommended, just not done for any user interactions to prevent confusion	01:00
+perlDreamer	can we create content that cannot be rolled back, since that whole interface currently only looks at tags?	01:01
@preaction	individual asset revisions have always been deletable	01:01
+perlDreamer	sidebar: current test run with merged Crud http://gist.github.com/673389	01:02
@preaction	CopyBranch.t and ExportHtml.t shouldn't be failing	01:04
+perlDreamer	okay, I'll look into those before calling this phase done	01:04
+perlDreamer	you're right, individual revisions have always been deletable, it's just that we've been pushing people toward manageRevisionsInTag, manageCommittedTags, etc.	01:06
@preaction	we have?	01:07
+perlDreamer	yeah. The only way to get to the revisions for an asset is to edit the asset	01:07
+perlDreamer	and use the link on the right to see the other revisions	01:07
+perlDreamer	Version Tags is right in the Admin Console	01:08
+perlDreamer	it's more prominent	01:08
@preaction	not in the new admin console	01:08
+perlDreamer	ah, okay	01:08
+perlDreamer	I'm guessing for most assets, the change in the API is seamless.	01:10
+perlDreamer	how much work is it to rework something with AutoCommit?	01:10
+perlDreamer	ExportHtml is most likely failing due to a leaky test	01:12
@preaction	autocommit assets don't need tags anymore, at all	01:13
+perlDreamer	not even for approval?	01:13
@preaction	nope, not with the new approval stuff when that's ready	01:13
+perlDreamer	so we'll be able to approve revisions, or tags?	01:13
@preaction	actually, revisions, not tags	01:14
+perlDreamer	so we'll just have to rewrite the Workflow Activities that use tags, to handle revisions instead	01:14
@preaction	somewhat. haven't gotten that far yet	01:15
+perlDreamer	okay, is the branch somewhere where it can be looked at?	01:16
@preaction	i can put it up in my fork	01:16
+perlDreamer	cool, that way I can make intelligent comments when you ask questions :)	01:17
+perlDreamer	preaction, have you pulled recently into WebGUI8? If not, please don't.	01:20
+perlDreamer	CopyChildren shouldn't work	01:21
@preaction	ok	01:21
@preaction	and i can't push to my origin apparently	01:21
+perlDreamer	CopyBranch sends this URL: /?op=assetHelper;className=WebGUI::AssetHelper::CopyBranch;method=copy;with=children;	01:21
+perlDreamer	and CopyBranch has this check: childrenOnly => $session->form->get('with') eq 'Children',	01:22
+perlDreamer	so it can't be passing	01:22
@preaction	was passing for me	01:22
@preaction	weird. shouldn't be capitalized like that	01:22
+perlDreamer	no	01:22
+perlDreamer	this happened during the merge of WebGUI 7.10.4 in	01:23
+perlDreamer	so it's due to Fork	01:23
@preaction	i knew we should've went with spoons	01:23
+perlDreamer	spork!	01:24
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8186eba / lib/WebGUI/AssetHelper/CopyBranch.pm : form param "with" should be all lower case. - http://bit.ly/duiYEB	01:25
@preaction	for some reason the tests are really intense now	01:25
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+perlDreamer	preaction: which Middleware sucks up the log warnings?	02:10
@preaction	using WebGUI::Test::Mechanize?	02:10
+perlDreamer	yes	02:10
+perlDreamer	and I want my log output logged	02:10
@preaction	look inside it, it does it itself	02:10
+perlDreamer	ERROR: Problems talking to master daemon process. Please restart the web server.	02:11
+perlDreamer	frodwith: poke	02:12
+perlDreamer	ping	02:12
+perlDreamer	plead	02:12
Getty	hmpf... there is a news in germany about some dolphin using ipad vs. toughbook, yes the news sounds fascinating BUT IS IT SO HARD TO DELIVER A VIDEO?!?!?!?	02:37
Getty	and i cant find anything on the net.... no really we are in a time where every shit is recorded, but this really really fascinating stuff isnt..... <headshaking>	02:40
@preaction	would it be overkill to have a netbook and a laptop next to me at the same time?	02:41
Getty	....... now i'm even more pissed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmiPDMt-ZTc	02:41
@preaction	perlDreamer: are the webgui tests more resource-hogging to you recently?	02:42
+perlDreamer	they run longer, but that's to be expected with run_*	02:42
@preaction	they used to get done in like 15 minutes, now it's been over an hour	02:42
+perlDreamer	an hour?	02:42
@preaction	run_* not enabled	02:42
+perlDreamer	that's too long	02:42
@preaction	maybe it's just because there are a lot of failures?	02:42
+perlDreamer	Files=357, Tests=17897, 1177 wallclock secs	02:42
+perlDreamer	just shy of 20 minutes	02:43
+perlDreamer	and that's with DEBUG enabled, too	02:43
@preaction	i'm just gonna keep it going to see how long it takes	02:43
+perlDreamer	you could try tailing the prove output, and see if it's in a loop	02:43
@preaction	i think i left it on overnight, a test had hung for the entire time	02:43
* perlDreamer has had that happen before		02:43
+perlDreamer	yeah	02:44
@preaction	no, it's still going for now, i haven't reached the recurring calendar workflow one yet	02:44
@preaction	do you think people will dislike me if i trim down the default assets? like gallery having only one view instead of three? and calendar only having three instead of 5?	02:45
@preaction	gallery albums don't need "Default", "Thumbnails", and "Slideshow", they only need a "Show All" feature and javascript	02:46
@preaction	also, usually my computer is not completely unresponsive while running the tests, this is unusable now...	02:46
+perlDreamer	I've never had that problem before	02:48
+perlDreamer	I think you're looping	02:48
+perlDreamer	calendar has 5 views?	02:48
+perlDreamer	month, week, list day and...?	02:48
@preaction	oh, right, last tab is search	02:49
@preaction	it's just, when you have a Calendar, depending on the number of events, you either want to see the Week view, the Month view, or a List. Day is useless	02:50
@preaction	but if you get down to it, it's just "Dated" and "List" view	02:50
@preaction	oh, and those print ones have to go	02:51
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+perlDreamer	dial back that code knife dude, we need to finish stuff up on the boards first	02:51
+perlDreamer	maybe we need to setup a survey to see what people think?	02:51
@preaction	i know, i'm just imaginating	02:51
* perlDreamer envisions preaction putting on his MLK hat		02:52
+perlDreamer	"I have a dream"	02:52
@preaction	gallery i know i can get rid of the extra views. calendar might be more difficult	02:52
+perlDreamer	it's not really Gallery, it's Gallery Album that has all the views	02:54
@preaction	right	02:54
+perlDreamer	you may kill those with impunity	02:54
@preaction	and then we might as well allow albums of albums, but then all we have is folders, no?	02:54
@preaction	oh, and merge Image and Photo too, and make Gallery work with any File type	02:55
+perlDreamer	I s'pose	02:55
+perlDreamer	but recursing up the folders to find the Gallery, which holds all the configurations, might not be very fun	02:56
@preaction	$gallery = $self->getLineage(['ancestors],{className => 'WebGUI::Asset::wobject::GalleryAlbum'});	02:56
+perlDreamer	is that the lowest one, or the highest one?	02:57
@preaction	it can't be under two	02:57
+perlDreamer	hm	02:58
+perlDreamer	you wouldn't think that a meatball sub would translate well to burrito form, but you'd be wrong	03:48
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elnino	Hey!	06:56
elnino	I'm getting a Couldn't call method process on asset for url: contact_us.php Root cause: Can't locate object method "create" via package "WebGUI::Mail::Send" at /home/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataForm.pm line 1074.	06:56
elnino	why would that be? create does exist	06:57
elnino	and I tried sending email via the group manager and same thing.	06:57
elnino	v 7.7.33	06:58
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elnino	never mind. nite	07:13
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SDuensin	Friday! For real this time!	16:36
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Getty	and made more people aware of WebGUI, pushed them to test the demo	17:29
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+perlDreamer	are we having fun yet?	19:12
+perlDreamer	preaction, should I work on debugging those two failing tests, or pick up a new project?	19:13
+bartjol	fun? well, it is weekend	19:15
+perlDreamer	only in The Netherlands	19:16
+perlDreamer	here it is still Friday	19:16
+bartjol	and Russia	19:16
+bartjol	and most things east of us	19:16
@preaction	perlDreamer: new project, just keep moving	19:17
+bartjol	have a nice weekend	19:18
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CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rcfb53ff / lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm : Handle exceptions thrown when rolling back a version tag. - http://bit.ly/axj5hY	19:21
CIA-67	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra1571b9 / t/Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutLowStock.t : Explicit class for addToCleanup, otherwise the debugger fails. - http://bit.ly/9GZMMZ	19:21
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+perlDreamer	okay, I'll start working on the undotting	19:24
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neil	Re. ticket - Strange spectre problem (#11444), http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11444 - where is Operation/Cron?	19:45
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Haarg	WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Cron.pm	19:49
Haarg	it looks like that caused other problems though so i wouldn't trust it	19:49
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+perlDreamer	not to disagree with the honored hacker from Wisconsin, but the fix works	19:53
+perlDreamer	it doesn't delete your cron jobs anymore, and spectre doesn't hang	19:53
neil	I will try it.	20:14
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neil	I have installed WebGUI on a VPS and I'm looking for info on setting up email - I also have Webmin installed.	20:20
@preaction	neil: the default config should work fine, provided your VPS has an smtp daemon running	20:33
@preaction	redhat/centos it works out of the box, not sure what debian/ubuntu does	20:33
neil	VPS is on CentOS 5.5 32 bit	20:34
@preaction	then you're running sendmail. provided you don't allow port 22 incoming from outside, you'll be fine	20:34
@preaction	if you want local mail delivery, then you'll have to open the firewall and then you'll want to do some lockdown	20:34
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scrottie0	dammit. stupid Internet.	20:40
scrottie0	what did I miss this morning? anything juicy?	20:41
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scrottie0	something has to trigger it?	20:53
scrottie0	ack	20:53
@preaction	syn?	20:58
+perlDreamer	nack	20:58
scrottie0	rst.	20:58
+perlDreamer	grep	20:58
+perlDreamer	awk	20:58
+perlDreamer	sed	20:58
+perlDreamer	vi	20:58
+perlDreamer	ex	20:58
+perlDreamer	ls	20:58
+perlDreamer	rm	20:58
scrottie0	fortune	20:58
scrottie0	talk	20:58
+perlDreamer	scrottie0 needs a new haircut!	20:58
scrottie0	I should have gotten the $20-to-support-the-EFF mohawk at DEFCON!	20:59
scrottie0	purple at no extra charge!	20:59
+perlDreamer	dude, you rock the 'hawk	20:59
+perlDreamer	preaction: I think you need to prioritize the 30 Blocking/Required tasks	21:08
+perlDreamer	we won't get them all done by the time 8 is released	21:08
@preaction	i thought they were prioritized	21:09
@preaction	and we only need to get the API freeze ones done first	21:09
+perlDreamer	anything labeled 8 beta should be done first?	21:10
@preaction	no, API freeze	21:10
@preaction	first we freeze, then we 8 beta, then we 8 stable	21:10
@preaction	once all the freeze stuff is done, we release 8 beta. then we work on 8 beta tasks until they're done, then 8 stable	21:10
@preaction	no, wait, anyway, work on the API freeze ones first, they're absolutely necessary	21:11
@preaction	test ones don't really matter	21:11
+perlDreamer	all righty, then I'll have a go at $session->var => $session	21:11
@preaction	ok	21:11
@preaction	then next moving the required profile fields to the users table might be good	21:11
+perlDreamer	hua!	21:12
scrottie0	three activities in the workflow; each doing a `wall` inside a screen session with eight virtual terminals; each virtual terminal generating an activity alert in screen. whee, fireworks!	21:19
+perlDreamer	w00t!	21:20
scrottie0	I still miss metalic droning and a rolling screen full of flashing color patterns.	21:20
scrottie0	nothing crashes like an Atari 400/800/XL/XE.	21:20
scrottie0	except maybe a C=64.	21:20
+perlDreamer	dang, mucho crufto in Session::Var	21:27
@preaction	indeed!	21:27
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@preaction	that's why it's Required ;)	21:27
+perlDreamer	well then	21:27
+perlDreamer	let's see how catastrophically I can break wG this time :)	21:28
@preaction	be liberal with your axe eugene	21:28
* perlDreamer is even thinking Moose		21:28
@preaction	that's something we can do later	21:28
+perlDreamer	yeah, there's only 89 files to update after making this change	21:30
@preaction	nice, my addRevision change was 96 files	21:30
@preaction	and it's been two days of test-reworking ;)	21:30
@preaction	the userProfile / users table thing shouldn't be bad at all	21:30
+perlDreamer	we only have 1 required field right now, email	21:31
@preaction	but i am gonna deprecate some usages of existing APIs, to try to uniform everything up right ways	21:31
@preaction	no, there are others, used by CS and things	21:31
+perlDreamer	so anything used internally should be considered required	21:31
+perlDreamer	language pref	21:31
+perlDreamer	timezone	21:31
+perlDreamer	avatar	21:31
@preaction	right, because if they don't exist, webgui will break catastrophically	21:32
+perlDreamer	and do they come out of the profile, and into the Account screens too?	21:32
@preaction	no, they're still "Profile Fields", but they're stored in the other table. the existing User.pm already does this	21:32
+perlDreamer	we'll talk more about it when I get there	21:34
@preaction	kk	21:34
+perlDreamer	unless you get there first	21:34
@preaction	i might actually, but i might take "FormBuilder must be used everywhere" instead	21:34
@preaction	because that's gonna be a bit of work :(	21:34
+perlDreamer	yeah, and I think you'll need to do Form::Control -> template vars first	21:34
+perlDreamer	since there's a lot of that you can skip if you do it	21:34
@preaction	yeah	21:35
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CIA-74	webgui: Scott Walters master * ree80f8d / (lib/WebGUI/Workflow.pm lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Instance.pm): Docpatch to Workflow / Workflow::Instance so that hopefully people have some chance of figuring out what they need to do to get this puppy to roll. - http://bit.ly/bgt8Lt	22:50
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mducharme-laptop	hey	22:57
scrottie0	hey, hey, hey, it's phat mducharme-laptop!	23:02
mducharme-laptop	hm?	23:06
mducharme-laptop	anybody seen perldreamer lately?	23:06
Haarg	he was here earlier but I don't know when he'll be around again.	23:11
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mducharme-laptop	we want to hire someone to do some perl development for us, so I thought of him	23:15
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scrottie0	mducharme-laptop, I'm guessing he took off a bit early on this lovely Friday. I expect he'll be here bright and early Monday morning.	00:37
mducharme-laptop	ok	00:39
mducharme-laptop	it's not lovely here, it's starting to snow	00:39
mducharme-laptop	lol	00:39
scrottie0	that sounds lovely to me.	00:39
scrottie0	but I've been keeping an eye on skibonk.com lately.	00:39
mducharme-laptop	I'd love to live somewhere where it didn't snow	00:52
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@preaction	does mysql treat != on a key column as well as it treats =?	01:20
@preaction	performance-wise, that is	01:20
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@preaction	still something like 50 test scripts failing for me :(	02:06
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@preaction	http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/11/13/0029203/CDE-mdash-Making-Linux-Portability-Easy?from=rss <- this is damn awesome	03:45
scrottie0	http://bstj.bell-labs.com/oldfiles/year.1922/BSTJ.1922.0102.html <-- this is pretty damn awesome too =)	04:11
scrottie0	I've used statifier in the past but it falls down past a certain point. it fails to make a static binary out of firefox, for example.	04:12
scrottie0	run-time dynamic library loading in general gets it.	04:12
Getty	btw you guys should actually make a report how many bugs you fix per week, cause if you see the stats of facebook against that, i guess you laugh your ass up ;)	04:12
scrottie0	still really, really handy though	04:12
@preaction	cde says it fixes that problem	04:12
scrottie0	that's going in my toy box then.	04:12
Getty	how many coder they have? no idea, but: 24 bugs in 7 days fixed.... ;)	04:12
@preaction	Getty: our changelog is released every week, and it's just colin working monday and tuesday really	04:13
@preaction	so in two days, we fix 1/4 the bugs that facebook fixes in 7. well, if they have only one coder, then that makes sense	04:13
Getty	LOL ;) its hilarious, or?	04:14
Getty	also good stats, they replied on around 160 threads in their developer forum, in 7 days	04:14
Getty	(against 615 new topics generated)	04:14
Getty	btw in general they have 4,286 bugs open 8-)	04:14
scrottie0	really large codebases can be a house of cards. you breathe and you've created 5,000 subtle bugs. moving very carefully and slowly is advisible.	04:15
@preaction	well, how many are real bugs? and how many are people just pitching a bitch?	04:15
Getty	they produced a minefield by themself	04:15
scrottie0	that's part of the joy of working on a codebase you can fit in your brain.	04:15
scrottie0	you can go commando like perlDreamer does.	04:15
Getty	preaction: they are all unchecked, so "who knows?"	04:15
@preaction	exactly	04:15
Getty	preaction: yeah but if they dont check them its even more evil	04:15
scrottie0	firefox is an interesting case. they have several year old bugs in their tracker.	04:16
Getty	preaction: in 7 days they just reproduced (and so approved) 31 bugs	04:16
scrottie0	bugs are almost more likely to get obsoleted by time than fixed.	04:16
Getty	yeah true	04:16
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Getty	still its hilarious for such a huge "empire"	04:16
scrottie0	that's the result of unchecked growth. facebook I'm sure exemplifies that.	04:16
Getty	i got a like-worm in my account, which instantly make you like it if you browse against it.... reported on all channels so that this get stopped....	04:17
Getty	but since 1 month or so, nothing	04:17
scrottie0	Samy is my hero.	04:17
scrottie0	g'night everyone. I gotta go drink Frank a beer.	04:17
scrottie0	very important.	04:17
Getty	thumbsup	04:17
@preaction	enjoy	04:18
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Getty	just curious, when we have webgui 8 you said the admin interface is very flexible, right?	04:39
@preaction	every bit of it is overridable through either plugin or template	04:39
Getty	if you mean flexible, can we talk about THAT MASSIVE flexible, that i could actually totally make it lets say a JSON interface, so that i can use some application, or "phone app" to manage it?	04:40
@preaction	when we release, i will be looking for ideas to make it easier to extend. i want WebGUI to be the stepping stone to a completely-custom site	04:40
Getty	then give the json interface and make an iphone/android compatible management console	04:40
Getty	:D	04:40
Getty	you would kick ass	04:40
@preaction	much of the new Admin is async with JS. you could call those same APIs, yes	04:41
Getty	like also abstracting the webpage from the layout	04:41
Getty	so that the user is independent of the layout of the page	04:41
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@preaction	there's currently no way to save assets using just JS, you need a form post. there's also currently no way to get the fields and possible values, you'd need the form itself	04:41
Getty	that woud massivly increase the power for the writers/fillers of the page	04:41
Getty	form post and js doesnt excluse?	04:42
@preaction	but those two things are on my list, i do want a JSON API to the Asset system. the User system already has one	04:42
Getty	do you plan yourself to make applications for phones or stuff for the management?	04:42
Getty	or could i catch up that strategy direction?	04:42
@preaction	no, that is not in my mandate	04:42
@preaction	i will make JSON APIs for any app you want to make though	04:42
Getty	yeah i guess i will start with a Windows GUI app, so that i can easier test	04:43
Getty	and if i see, that we can do anything with the app	04:43
Getty	then next step would be porting to devices	04:43
Getty	even tho, i dont know if i would ever make by myself iphone and ipad app	04:44
Getty	i just hate apple to much to buy me one to develop them, i would puke at myself every day	04:44
Getty	actually i think i would some day take a knife and cut in my arms	04:44
@preaction	adobe AIR apps can target iphone and ipad	04:44
Getty	yeah right	04:44
Getty	good idea	04:44
Getty	very good idea, cause i know a friend who is CRAZY on adobe AIR	04:44
Getty	i should talk with him	04:44
Getty	but first we prove (when its there) that we can all do with a windows app	04:45
@preaction	i like it too, AS3 is nice (it's just classy JS). as long as you avoid the flash IDE you're fine	04:45
Getty	hehe :)	04:45
Getty	its somehow funny	04:45
Getty	in the past i found adobe more an enemy then something i had to protect	04:45
Getty	now, apple "revealed" for me what good adobe did to the communiyt	04:45
Getty	flash wasnt a blocker like anyone suggested	04:45
@preaction	if you are going to build a JSON API to getting asset properties, getting field information, and saving new asset revisions, you might want to talk to me. i can design something if you can implement it	04:46
Getty	and its funny that apple made me realize that	04:46
@preaction	adobe is still a horrible company. Flash IDE is not worth $700	04:46
Getty	hehe, they did something	04:46
Getty	they moved something	04:46
@preaction	but you do have flex and other free tools for swf, so it's fine	04:46
Getty	technology quality was sadly never the point for a movement of a product ;)	04:47
Getty	elsewhere webgui wouldnt be so small in usage amount against typo3	04:47
Getty	actually quality of a product is always AGAINST high user amount	04:47
Getty	(see facebook) ;)	04:47
@preaction	or drupal or any other system. why did mediawiki win out when there are far better wiki solutions out there?	04:47
@preaction	facebook won the quality battle against myspace	04:48
Getty	the wordpress coder THEMSELF said they wanted to change to perl already 3 years ago	04:48
Getty	but they cant	04:48
Getty	cause there is no api for modules or something so that there was a hope that much modules are transfered over	04:48
Getty	cause ... everyone just fucked around with the vars of the core directly	04:48
@preaction	but that's how wordpress was built to function: templates are what we would call plugins	04:48
Getty	many important wordpress plugins are just still running cause noone changes the core code that they modify brutally with direct access	04:48
Getty	i had a deeper talk with a wordpress coder at cebit ;)	04:49
@preaction	webgui has a clear seperation: template does this, template does not do this. there's nothing a wordpress "template" cannot do	04:49
Getty	its just hilarious	04:49
Getty	so thats why i try to push on perl	04:50
Getty	sad that we dont have the sponsorship for getting to cebit this year	04:50
Getty	end of the month the "last change" is really over to get a booth :(	04:50
Getty	its a bit of a shame	04:50
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Getty	preaction: still awake?	07:01
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@preaction	Getty: yes?	08:45
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@preaction	so with firesheep in the wild, we could use more information to uniquely identify a browser, so that only one browser can have the same session	21:09
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+Radix_	couldn't you just make sure all user authentication/cookie passing is done via https ?	04:59
@preaction	that would mean all traffic would need https, which is fine sure	05:00
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SDuensin	Morning, Interwebs!	16:33
@khenn	Another day on the information highway!	17:10
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elnino	OH! since when do wg create their own sitemap.xml?	17:36
@preaction	7.8 or 7.9 i think	17:44
elnino	ok. And what is the keywords field for under the metatag?	17:57
elnino	...meta data tab..	17:57
elnino	never mind	17:57
+bartjol	:)	17:59
elnino	ok. now I do have a question.	18:00
+bartjol	fire away	18:00
elnino	I need to differentiate between h1 and title.	18:00
elnino	I created a field in content profiling.	18:00
elnino	but it isn't showing up on any of my pagelayout's tabs.. I thought they showed up on the metadata tab.	18:01
elnino	good grief. never mind.	18:02
+bartjol	?	18:03
+bartjol	still no question? now I demand one	18:03
elnino	lol	18:05
elnino	OK NOW I do have a question.	18:13
elnino	How do I use h1??? I'd have to modify ALL the default pagelayout templates!!!	18:13
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+perlDreamer	preaction: last week you suggested you and I teaming up and 8'ing 2 days a week, and 7'ing 1 day a week	18:16
+perlDreamer	you want to try that this week?	18:16
@preaction	sure, which day would you prefer be 7 day?	18:18
+perlDreamer	tomorrow	18:18
elnino	ok. So I ran in to this before,	18:19
@preaction	okay, i've got a few administrative tasks to work on today, but otherwise i should have most of the addRevision tests I borked working by end of today so I can move on	18:19
* perlDreamer will start excising Var		18:19
elnino	I created content profiling. I created a metatitle field. So use for the <title> tag instead of using your property tab title, because that is being used for >h1>	18:20
elnino	so I put <title><tmpl_var metatitle></title> into my style template, and it's not reading my metadata.	18:20
elnino	How do I do this?	18:20
+perlDreamer	is the metatitle for the style template itself, on an asset inside it?	18:21
elnino	metatitle is a content profile variable defined on the pagelayout.	18:22
+perlDreamer	in the style template, it doesn't have access to the template variables for the asset it's styling	18:22
+perlDreamer	you get body.content	18:22
+perlDreamer	head.tags	18:22
+perlDreamer	and so on	18:22
@preaction	but in the Extra HEAD Tags of the template you have access to the metadata vars, no?	18:23
elnino	That's what it sounds like, preaction, but I think I tried that, but I'll try it again.	18:23
@preaction	i would love to see name="Value" parameters for macros...	18:24
* preaction makes a note for 8.1 "Back to Basics"		18:24
+perlDreamer	how about if we go away from macros completely and use native TT semantics?	18:26
+perlDreamer	so we don't have to have a macro processor anymore	18:26
+perlDreamer	and multiple stages of interpolation	18:26
elnino	I put <title><tmpl_var metatitle></title> in my extra head tags, and that is exactly what I see. It didn't evaluate the template varaible.	18:27
elnino	my title is now literally: "<tmpl_var metatitle>"	18:27
+perlDreamer	extraHeadTags for the layout, or for the style template?	18:27
elnino	page layout	18:27
@preaction	or for the layout template? you know i don't even quite know how that whole thing works :p	18:28
elnino	page layout asset.	18:28
elnino	I didn't want to get into modifying all my default pagelayout templates.	18:29
@preaction	iirc it's in the template that those things are parsed	18:29
elnino	I got into an arguement with someone why we needed to separate h1 from title. Right now, the title property for any asset does both. that isn't practicle for seo purposes.	18:29
elnino	grr.	18:29
elnino	so I have to modify all my default page layout tempaltes?	18:30
+perlDreamer	preaction: new Session API for Varless follows	18:30
+perlDreamer	session->open: new session	18:30
@preaction	elnino: well, you'd be better off setting your page layouts to new templates	18:30
+perlDreamer	session->close; #really a pause	18:30
+perlDreamer	session->end; # nuke it	18:31
+perlDreamer	session->get('\w+'); #access data	18:31
elnino	then I lose out on the updates you make to the default templates.	18:31
+perlDreamer	also, I think we should stick in a dummy sub var {return $_[0] };	18:31
@preaction	and ->new is resume a session?	18:31
+perlDreamer	->new is resume old, or start a new one	18:31
+perlDreamer	just like now	18:31
@preaction	actually, we could make it even easier for people and use WebGUI::Deprecate	18:31
@preaction	i have to refactor Deprecate to add some more utilities like "warn_deprecated" which only warns once, and listens to an environment variable to decide to warn or not	18:32
+perlDreamer	I don't think it would work, since we're merging objects	18:32
+perlDreamer	there is no old to call anymore	18:32
+perlDreamer	you'd like to deprecate $session->var->get	18:33
+perlDreamer	and tell them to use $session->get	18:33
@preaction	well, it'd be easier to deprecate $session->var and have it return $_[0] as you said, the same result really	18:33
+perlDreamer	would you balk at me using Class::Accessor to build methods for the properties, instead of using ->get() ?	18:35
@preaction	no need to add new things for now, we can do that later	18:35
elnino	can we make the page macro be able to retrieve meta properties?	18:38
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@preaction	it would be possible, yes	18:38
elnino	then I can call my content profile varaible from my style template - because that is how it already builds the <title> tag, it by default uses ^page(title);	18:39
+perlDreamer	wow, $session->var's encapsulation is respected..	18:40
elnino	I love webgui untill my clients hire a seo consultant.	18:55
elnino	Any suggestions on providing alt tags to links generated in a navigation asset?	18:55
+perlDreamer	change the template?	18:55
elnino	yes, but where do I define the value I PUT into the alt property?	18:56
elnino	content profiling again?	18:56
elnino	I dont' think i'll be able to read it.	18:56
+perlDreamer	that's right	18:57
+perlDreamer	only core asset properties are available in the loop	18:57
+perlDreamer	which is why we should have global userDefined variables	18:58
elnino	I think in the past I used summary. which messes up the purpose of that field.	18:58
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+perlDreamer	that merge was entirely too easy...	19:06
+perlDreamer	time to update tests and go boom	19:06
elnino	anyone know why h1 isn't used?\	19:08
+perlDreamer	isn't used where?	19:09
elnino	nope.	19:09
elnino	not that I can see.	19:09
elnino	pagelayouts start with h2	19:09
elnino	articles titles are h3	19:09
+perlDreamer	isn't that part of the old, abandoned TWG spec?	19:09
+perlDreamer	h1 reserved for site name, perhaps?	19:09
+perlDreamer	i'd check their wiki and forums for that	19:10
elnino	we have an abondoned twg spec?	19:11
+perlDreamer	we were abandoned by twg	19:11
elnino	=lol	19:11
+perlDreamer	it makes me quite angry	19:11
elnino	that is pretty sad. they just dispersed?	19:12
elnino	a lot of good work came out of it.	19:12
elnino	I'm glad the templates were all cleaned up, but I never understood the abondnment of h1	19:12
+perlDreamer	to paraphrase, "There's too much work and we don't want to do it".	19:12
+perlDreamer	but that's a harsh characterization of good people	19:13
SDuensin	So, the Template Slacking Group? :-)	19:14
+perlDreamer	like I said, it's a harsh characterization of good people	19:16
+perlDreamer	not everyone is bent like I am, who love to write tests, POD and maintain code	19:16
dreamersgirl	slacking is fun?	19:16
SDuensin	Yea. Templating WG is a heck of a project.	19:17
elnino	well, depends on what they were going to accomplish. They did a good job cleaning the templates up and makeing them consistant at least.	19:18
elnino	If their purpose is to make things look pretty, THAT is a big job.	19:19
elnino	I think the one an only mistake is reserving h1.	19:19
+perlDreamer	but they didn't clean up ALL the templates	19:21
elnino	what is left?	19:21
+perlDreamer	Lots	19:21
+perlDreamer	they fixed Article, File, Image, Page, Layout	19:22
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elnino	perlDreamer, is there an rfe for userdefined variables?	20:19
@preaction	yes, but why do you need them?	20:19
+perlDreamer	people need arbitrary scratch variables for assets	20:20
elnino	read my next wiki, and you'll know why.	20:20
+perlDreamer	but we've debated this before	20:20
@preaction	isn't that what metadata is for?	20:20
elnino	to be published soon.	20:20
+perlDreamer	no	20:20
+perlDreamer	metadata isn't exposed by default to all templates	20:20
@preaction	because metadata sucks but can be fixed	20:20
+perlDreamer	or if you do a get	20:20
+perlDreamer	we don't have to fix it though	20:20
+perlDreamer	adding userDefined vars is much simpler than fixing a sucky system	20:21
@preaction	and much less useful. marginalizing metadata even more, might as well just remove it completely	20:21
+perlDreamer	that works for me	20:22
+perlDreamer	we could make it an addon	20:22
+perlDreamer	so that you don't have to carry it around	20:22
+perlDreamer	what metadata was meant to be, Keywords are	20:22
elnino	my guess is that the metadata was created for the meta tags right?	20:23
elnino	what got all confusing is that now the summary field is for meta descriptions, and keywords is for meta keywords.	20:23
elnino	so why have meta data?	20:23
+perlDreamer	no, it was created to track you through the site	20:23
elnino	for other meta tags.	20:23
+perlDreamer	that's why it's called content profiling	20:23
+perlDreamer	see the AOI macros	20:23
elnino	fair enough	20:24
+perlDreamer	we've abused it to do other, useful things	20:24
elnino	then meta data should be "content profiing" only.	20:24
elnino	meta tags should be in the "extra heads"	20:24
elnino	and global user defined variables should be yet another "thing"	20:24
elnino	they kinda all got mixed up. in my opinion.	20:24
elnino	http://www.webgui.org/wiki/setting-up-for-seo	20:25
elnino	This is the second time an SEO expert has been hired, and they ask us to do what are impossible in webgui. unless we have userdefined varaibles OR additional property fields.	20:25
+perlDreamer	or, like preaction suggests, exposing metadata to $asset->get()	20:26
@preaction	or custom macros	20:27
elnino	Or that is definately a good option. Woudl that allow ^page macro to see them too?	20:27
@preaction	yes	20:27
@preaction	it just may contain other, unforeseen consequences	20:29
@preaction	you could just fix the page macro to try metadata too	20:29
elnino	I would, but it isn't my server. no custom code allowed. =)	20:29
+perlDreamer	even if we WRE it in, you'd have to upgrade to beta	20:30
+perlDreamer	that may not be an option either	20:30
elnino	not in this particluar case.	20:30
elnino	I'm trying to fire my client. =)	20:30
elnino	so I dont' have to deal with these limitations.	20:30
elnino	comments/corrections on my very confusing wiki are most welcome!	20:42
+perlDreamer	preaction: so far, moving Var is pretty smooth	21:03
+perlDreamer	I'm moving tests from Var.t into Session.t bit by bit, and correcting and updating	21:03
+perlDreamer	then I'll be ready for find .... xargs perl -pi -e	21:03
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Trex___	Hey folks. I have a "bug or feature" question about WebGUI's trash...	22:46
+perlDreamer	lay it on us, Trex__	22:46
Trex___	If you delete a file but don't purge it from the trash, the file remains accessible via the direct URL...	22:46
+perlDreamer	now, do you mean the File asset, or the file stored inside the File asset?	22:47
Trex___	The file itself.	22:47
elnino	I think there is a bug report about that. I think I've found that it remains even after you purge it.	22:47
+perlDreamer	it shouldn't remain after you purge it	22:47
+perlDreamer	if you can show us how to duplicate that bug, we'll fix it	22:48
Trex___	I did a quick search of the bugs list and didn't see anything that looked like this.	22:48
elnino	I'll look in mine.	22:48
Trex___	I'm not talking about after purging but before -- you want to delete a file from general access on the website, but if, say, Google has cached the direct URL already, people can still find it.	22:48
+perlDreamer	Trex___, how would mod_proxy know what the state of a file in the file system is, with respect to its Asset?	22:48
Trex___	Via the .wgaccess file, I would presume.	22:49
Trex___	Even if the file was generally visible before, I would presume that if it moves to the trash, a .wgaccess file would be added so that it wasn't generally available.	22:49
elnino	is google grabbing it's uploads/ path or are they caching the webgui url?	22:51
Trex___	Our content managers assume that if they delete something that it becomes unavailable to general viewers as well -- but that's not the case. The file remains available and sometimes in Google's cache until the 30 day (default) purge.	22:51
Trex___	This is the direct, /uploads/ path.	22:51
elnino	I don't have a bug report about that. =)	22:51
@preaction	for now you'll have to ask them to purge it. when it's fixed, you'll also need to make sure mod_proxy forwards requests for any uploads/ path that has a .wgaccess file (which the latest WRE config does)	22:52
Trex___	By "when it's fixed" does this mean it's a bug not a feature? :)	22:52
@preaction	it's a deviation from expected behavior. the asset itself is unreachable, but the storage location is still fine and dandy	22:53
Trex___	OK, I'm happy to file a bug report on it if you haven't started one already.	22:54
elnino	I haven't.	22:54
@preaction	go ahead, all yours	22:55
Trex___	OK, I'll add the report.	22:55
Trex___	Also, with regards to the latest WRE configuration, is WebGUI still using the following rewrite rules to ensure a check for permissions:	22:56
Trex___	RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} ^(.*/)	22:56
Trex___	RewriteCond ${DOCUMENT_ROOT}%1.wgaccess !-f	22:56
Trex___	RewriteRule ^/uploads/ - [L]	22:56
@preaction	don't paste please	22:56
Trex___	Sorry.	22:56
Trex___	It's the method mentioned here: http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/protecting-file-assets/14	22:57
@preaction	and yes, that is the correct configuration, provided it's in all your .modproxy files, any file created before 0.9.3 may not have those lines	22:57
Trex___	I'm reviewing a system on which our sysadmin has upgraded to the latest stable WG, but I can't be sure that he didn't do something unexpected like revert the modproxy files.	22:58
@preaction	webgui doesn't upgrade the modproxy files, wre doesn't automatically either	22:58
@preaction	webgui doesn't know about the WRE, essentially.	22:58
Trex___	OK...there must be something odd going on, because this doesn't seem to be properly preventing access to files on our systems...but it does seem to be working on the latest WG demo site, so must be something in our system I'll need to track down.	22:59
Trex___	Not much that you all can help with without access to our systems so I'll just leave it at that. :)	23:00
Trex___	But thanks for confirming the prior issue about the trash. And with that, I have to duck out again.	23:01
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@preaction	planning APIs and such out in WebGUI 7 is painful compared to what we have in 8 :(	00:53
@preaction	can't have a "getSomethingForm" method, as I can't modify the form that comes out of it. it has to return a complete form, or some horribleness like a set of <tr>	00:53
@preaction	hmm... or...	00:54
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@preaction	or i can design something braindead enough that the future APIs can work with it while deprecating it...	00:55
@preaction	let's build APIs just to immediately deprecate them! yay!	00:55
+perlDreamer	or, let's tell people they have to do that project in 8	01:18
@preaction	their drop-dead date is Dec 19. not plausible :(	01:34
+perlDreamer	oh! Go alpha, be brave!	01:38
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SDuensin	Howdy all.	16:38
+bartjol	no, not him again :P	16:38
SDuensin	!!!	16:40
SDuensin	A pain in your butt since WG 5.x!	16:40
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@preaction	i'm surprised you admit to using that... product...	17:41
SDuensin	It's why I'm here. There was absolutely nothing even remotely close to it back then.	17:44
SDuensin	And I wasn't even looking for a CMS when I found it. :-D	17:44
SDuensin	(Was trying to find a pre-made library for building web UIs for locally run software like the old SATAN security scanner used.)	17:45
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neil__	I have WebGUI setup on a vps for 3 sites and would like to know which is better, Virtualmin or Webmim.	17:57
+perlDreamer	neil__: none of those will do anything for WebGUI itself	17:58
neil__	I'm having a difficult time settting up messaging in WebGUI.	17:59
neil__	WebGUI should work fine with Sendmail	17:59
@preaction	and it does, yes	18:00
neil__	But I don't know how to set it up	18:01
@preaction	well, if you need to configure anything, i'd suggest not using sendmail	18:01
neil__	What do you suggest I use for email/messaging	18:03
@preaction	well, for e-mail, i'd suggest postfix	18:04
SDuensin	neil__: I run this setup - http://flurdy.com/docs/postfix/	18:04
neil__	My vps is on CentOS while your suggestion is primarily for a Debian system ..	18:12
+perlDreamer	I didn't know that postfix worked differently based on the OS it sat on	18:13
SDuensin	Well, the install will be a bit different. Some confs may move around.	18:13
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@preaction	neil__: have you checked the maillog as to why it might be failing? does the server know who it is? is it trying to deliver mail locally?	18:37
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neil__	I would like to see email/messaging setup where, webgui user when logged can check their inbox. And also via mozilla thunderbird or similar	18:43
neil__	Only admin, content creator can log into webgui	18:44
@preaction	webgui's inbox has nothing to do with e-mail. users just get e-mailed when something gets added to their inbox	18:46
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neil__	I lost connection	18:53
neil__	I would like to see email/messaging setup where, webgui admin and content creator when logged can check their inbox. And also via mozilla thunderbird or similar	18:54
@preaction	webgui's inbox has nothing to do with e-mail. users just get e-mailed when something gets added to their inbox	18:55
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neil__	I have edited the question - How can webgui users check their emails via mozilla thunderbird or similar?	19:04
@preaction	do you mean their Inbox or normal, regular e-mail?	19:05
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@frodwith	in webgui 8, should asset->newById throw an exception or return undef if there's no such asset? (docs say it should return undef, but in trunk it throws an exception)	19:08
neil__	Both actually. I really would like to know.	19:12
@preaction	neil__: normal e-mail is normal e-mail. inbox cannot be read through an e-mail client	19:13
@preaction	frodwith: it should throw an exception	19:13
CIA-74	webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * r8af425a / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : docpatch for outdated pod on Asset->newById - http://bit.ly/cpODPb	19:17
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neil__	preaction: what is the simplest configuration so that emails can be checked via mozilla thunderbird or similar?	19:28
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neil___	preaction: what is the simplest configuration so that emails can be checked via mozilla thunderbird or similar?	19:31
@preaction	neil___: this isn't a WebGUI thing, talk to your imap or pop3 daemon's help channel	19:33
plainhao	neil___, configure your webgui to forward inbox messages	19:33
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plainhao	d'oh	19:33
@preaction	oh fun. because Registered Users isn't a real group, WebGUI::Group->getUsersNotIn doesn't work with it	19:52
+perlDreamer	frodwith: bad docs. It throws	20:33
+perlDreamer	doc patches welcome :)	20:33
+perlDreamer	fixes for bad code even more welcome	20:33
+perlDreamer	I also accept donations of small, sweet baked goods	20:33
@frodwith	perlDreamer: docpatch committed roughly an hour ago	20:34
@frodwith	:)	20:34
+perlDreamer	awesome	20:34
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CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r5f89a28 / (4 files in 4 dirs): fix #11965: FriendMgr pagination and getUsersNotIn - http://bit.ly/drhHAj	21:28
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * rca9b02e / (4 files in 4 dirs): fix #11965: FriendMgr pagination and getUsersNotIn - http://bit.ly/aXuP85	21:31
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r9ad8b0b / (2 files in 2 dirs): move package to correct place - http://bit.ly/9h3JUx	21:31
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r8c06c28 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : changelog - http://bit.ly/bmJNLo	21:31
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r3360757 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : changelog - http://bit.ly/bBwHZ2	21:32
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@preaction	http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11964 <- i'm thinking of fixing this bug by overriding trash() and commit() to add a "state" : "trash" to the wgaccess file. commit() adds to any previous revisions, and trash() adds to the current revision	22:14
Haarg	you could also just write out a wgaccess file with no permissions granted	22:18
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@preaction	also true, but i'd want to know why	22:38
+perlDreamer	preaction: I fixed the calendar extend recurrence bug already	23:10
+perlDreamer	but I didn't file a bug for it	23:10
@preaction	hm... seems you did. was it in 7.9.18 that they're running?	23:11
+perlDreamer	I lied, I did submit a bug, it's #11956	23:14
+perlDreamer	and it's in last week's release, .19	23:14
@preaction	humph	23:19
+perlDreamer	sorry dude	23:22
@preaction	then i don't know what these peoples' problem is if it's not that	23:22
+perlDreamer	they're one version too old	23:23
+perlDreamer	.18 instead of .19	23:23
@preaction	.17 was the last version they said	23:24
+perlDreamer	well, they're 2 versions old then	23:27
+perlDreamer	slackers! get with it!	23:27
+perlDreamer	I slave over a hot release system every week	23:27
+perlDreamer	and they can't even upgrade!	23:27
* perlDreamer sniffs and runs into the kitchen		23:27
@preaction	perlDreamer: just let me know when you're done whining and are ready to do the release. i'll keep bugsquashing until then	23:42
+perlDreamer	you do realize how incredibly tempting that is, right?	23:42
+perlDreamer	I can easily give you 12-14 more hours of bugfixing time, if you wish	23:42
@preaction	well, i have a madmongers meeting to go to, so i can't work that long	23:46
@preaction	and the failing addRevision tests are starting to mock me	23:46
@preaction	i can hear them... taunting me on another branch... teasing my inability to fix them	23:46
@preaction	oh crap. they heard me talking about them...	23:46
+perlDreamer	be strong!	23:50
+perlDreamer	it's not inability	23:54
+perlDreamer	it's being surrounded by those who require your help all the time	23:54
+perlDreamer	interrupting those valuable thought processes	23:54
--- Day changed Wed Nov 17 2010
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@preaction	mmm love writing regression tests. i love the feeling of "I will never have to fix this bug ever again"	00:44
+perlDreamer	:)	01:33
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r386ce03 / (5 files in 5 dirs): fix #11964 files show in trash and old revisions - http://bit.ly/bEYdLq	01:56
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r8649ad8 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : changelog - http://bit.ly/diYDIo	01:56
@preaction	perlDreamer: re: the iPad / TinyMCE problem. did we just add it to etc/WebGUI.conf.original or also in an upgrade?	02:01
+perlDreamer	no	02:26
+perlDreamer	it's a configuration option	02:26
+perlDreamer	if people want it, they should add it	02:26
+perlDreamer	there's no way I want 8e6 bug reports for "my personal mobile browser" is not supported	02:26
@preaction	ok	02:32
+perlDreamer	besides, in 8 this is fixed	02:32
+perlDreamer	by using the excellent HTTP::BrowserDetect module	02:32
+perlDreamer	Haarg++	02:32
@preaction	true nuff	02:35
@preaction	but the problem is that iPad isn't really a mobile, it's big	02:35
@preaction	i think this'll be my last bug of the night	02:36
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r55920f5 / (5 files in 5 dirs): fix #11964 files show in trash and old revisions - http://bit.ly/carDIQ	02:49
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * rc8aa4a5 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : changelog - http://bit.ly/bQYTby	02:49
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r270f52a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): fix 11954 Can't clear packed head tags - http://bit.ly/atD9rC	02:49
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * rd95aa4a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): fix 11954 Can't clear packed head tags - http://bit.ly/aeF7E2	02:49
+perlDreamer	preaction: for that packed head tags, do we need to have an upgrade sub which fixes assets with badly set packed head tags?	02:51
@preaction	i'd say no, they'll get cleared out by the next save of the asset	02:53
+perlDreamer	but in the meantime, they're still wrong	02:53
@preaction	but they're not being used, and if they are, someone will figure it out	02:54
+perlDreamer	they're not being used?	02:56
+perlDreamer	I thought the bug was that they were being used	02:56
+perlDreamer	and the user removed the head tags	02:56
+perlDreamer	and they kept showing up	02:57
@preaction	if you really want to add it, go ahead, i'm at madison.pm meeting	02:58
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+perlDreamer	preaction: test suite breakage	03:20
@preaction	hm	03:20
+perlDreamer	Asset/File.t	03:20
+perlDreamer	Image.t	03:20
+perlDreamer	VersionTag.t	03:20
+perlDreamer	FilePump/Bundle.t	03:20
@preaction	running a test	03:20
* perlDreamer goes back to making meatball sandwiches		03:21
+perlDreamer	d'ya want us to make an extra one for you?	03:21
@preaction	thanks, no. just had Steak Mafia at Come Back In	03:22
@preaction	damnit it all passes in 7.10...	03:26
@preaction	wtf, now it doesn't...	03:35
@preaction	okay, so i didn't change anything with this code, but now it doesn't work. comments?	03:58
* perlDreamer would guess...		03:59
+perlDreamer	You touched Storage, which affects Asset/File.t	03:59
+perlDreamer	and Image.t	03:59
Getty	heheheh	03:59
+perlDreamer	something leaked a test, which broke VersionTag.t	03:59
Getty	"I DIDNT TOUCHED ANYTHING!! ITS NOT MY FAULT!!!" ;) classic	03:59
+perlDreamer	and FilePump uses Storage, too	03:59
+perlDreamer	preaction has on his Han Solo blaster and vest tonight Getty	03:59
@preaction	perlDreamer: but i put a bunch of damned warns and it works just fine, the rest of the tests would fail if these tests were really failing wrongly	04:00
+perlDreamer	you asked for comments, that's my best guess	04:00
@preaction	perhaps the problem is that setStoragelocation and getStorageLocation do wayyyyyy too much	04:02
+perlDreamer	they worked just fine 18 hours ago	04:03
@preaction	i know, and they worked fine 4 hours ago when i committed the storage changes i did	04:03
@preaction	and the warns show the correct data, but the tests fail	04:04
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+perlDreamer	I'll rerun the suite with DEBUG turned on, and see if it shows anything else	04:06
@preaction	i'm gonna revert commits until they pass	04:08
@preaction	it's the last commit, the can't clear packed head tags one...	04:10
+perlDreamer	that breaks File, Image, VersionTags and FilePump?	04:11
+perlDreamer	wow	04:11
+perlDreamer	talk about collateral damage	04:11
@preaction	yeah... i got no clue either...	04:11
@preaction	but at least we know where to look	04:11
@preaction	i mean it's only 3 damned lines	04:11
@preaction	well, i missed an addToCleanup. that might fix the VersionTag test	04:13
@preaction	and it's not the test, it's those exact lines	04:15
@preaction	it's the actual update i added. wtf...	04:17
@preaction	how much of the existing update() exists in 8? zero? can it please be zero?	04:19
+perlDreamer	well, update is inherited all throughout Asset-ville	04:20
+perlDreamer	iirc, none of it exists per se	04:20
@preaction	yay!	04:20
+perlDreamer	it's moved into write, and various per-attribute wrappers	04:20
+perlDreamer	oh, and a Role or 2	04:21
@preaction	well, i guess i'll go debug-diving...	04:21
* preaction dons environment suit		04:21
@preaction	I JUST NEED FOUR STOUT MEN TO WORK THE BELLOWS!	04:21
* perlDreamer can be two of them, I'm quite stout		04:21
@preaction	hmm... overriding update might be the problem	04:23
+perlDreamer	but why does calling update inside packedHeadTags cause this problem?	04:25
+perlDreamer	hm	04:26
+perlDreamer	update calls getStorageLocation	04:26
+perlDreamer	which calls setStorageLocation	04:26
+perlDreamer	which calls update	04:26
+perlDreamer	...	04:26
@preaction	and if storageId hasn't been hit in the first update() yet, you create two storage locations	04:27
@preaction	but a better question is why is packExtraHeadTags getting called at all, as i'm not passing extraHeadTags to update()	04:27
+perlDreamer	we don't know where it's being called	04:31
+perlDreamer	could be on addChild	04:31
+perlDreamer	FilePump/Bundle fails because it uses a File Asset, which no longer has a storage location	04:32
+perlDreamer	and Image.t fails because it copied the File.t tests which are failing	04:33
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8c4785b / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl): Don't call setParent if the asset is still broken. Alert user if the asset is still broken. Fixes bug #11957. - http://bit.ly/czqOY6	04:40
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r28606bd / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl): Don't call setParent if the asset is still broken. Alert user if the asset is still broken. Fixes bug #11957. - http://bit.ly/apSCY5	04:42
@preaction	perlDreamer: can you think of a reason why we need to do $self->get('storageId') ne $before{'storageId'} without having storageId in the update props?	04:45
+perlDreamer	hm	04:46
@preaction	oooh i got a fix i thinks!	04:48
+perlDreamer	no	04:48
+perlDreamer	I cannot think of a reason that it should happen without storageId being passed	04:48
+perlDreamer	that being said, let's believe the tests	04:48
@preaction	indeed	04:49
+perlDreamer	oh, hang on	04:49
@preaction	and instead of setStorageLocation in update(), i just delete $self->{_storageLocation}. then getStorageLocation will update that when we need it to	04:49
+perlDreamer	the permissions can change	04:49
+perlDreamer	but that should be handled by addRev making a new location	04:49
+perlDreamer	yeah, I think you're good	04:49
@preaction	that's handled right below, the setPermissions is called	04:49
@preaction	tests passing so fars! yay!	04:50
@preaction	<3 test suites	04:50
+perlDreamer	push it up, and I'll test too	04:52
@preaction	k, one sec	04:52
+perlDreamer	tomorrow, we talk about some of the remaining bugs, and more 8acking	04:52
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r19dedc0 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset/File.pm t/Asset/Asset.t):	04:55
CIA-74	webgui: fix problem revealed by tests	04:55
CIA-74	webgui: update() in a File asset would always create a storage location if one	04:55
CIA-74	webgui: was not yet saved. calling update() in a filter method would cause	04:55
CIA-74	webgui: another one to be created too, messing up the tests. - http://bit.ly/amh6Ut	04:55
@preaction	perlDreamer: nope. Scrumm says we don't look back. we 8!	04:57
+perlDreamer	huh?	05:05
+perlDreamer	need to make decisions about new TinyMCE	05:05
+perlDreamer	and indexing userProfile	05:05
+perlDreamer	or changing the lookup for unique email addresses	05:05
@preaction	yes, but we can do that next tuesday, when it's 7.x day again	05:06
+perlDreamer	very guud (ala Dexter)	05:06
@preaction	g?d?	05:06
@preaction	filepump macro still fails	05:07
+perlDreamer	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSnij6sRbHA	05:07
@preaction	and versiontag still fails	05:10
+perlDreamer	I cleaned up the latest forum span	05:11
+perlDreamer	and deleted the account	05:13
+perlDreamer	runs clean for me, preaction	05:19
@preaction	i didn't reset before my last run, so i'm running again	05:19
+perlDreamer	I think you're good	05:20
@preaction	i mean, the TaxDriver/EU.t failed, so something wonky was up	05:20
+perlDreamer	yeah, that's really weird	05:26
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CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r19b901f / (26 files in 11 dirs): Preparing for 7.10.5 release - http://bit.ly/bfXNSe	06:28
* perlDreamer loves easy upgrades		06:50
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CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r63217ab / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.6 development. - http://bit.ly/bWUARl	07:03
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+bartjol	btw, wouldn't it be convenient to use the versionsort option of indexoptions for upgrade.webgui.org?	16:00
+bartjol	see http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_autoindex.html	16:01
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+bartjol	khenn who controls the update.webgui.org webserver?	16:07
+bartjol	goodmorning btw	16:07
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@khenn	update.webgui.org is one of our servers I believe	16:09
@khenn	preaction could confirm	16:09
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+bartjol	preaction: are you willing to make an improvement in the apache setup on the update.webgui.org site?	16:17
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:24
xdanger	hola	16:27
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@frodwith	does anyone else find typed exception handling annoyingly verbose? like you have to be all.. if (blessed($ex) && $ex->isa('whatever i care about')) { do something } else { if (blessed($ex) && $ex->can('rethrow')) { $ex->rethrow() } else { die $ex } }	18:03
@frodwith	thinking of releasing a tiny cpan module that does ... if (caught('my class') { do_something } else { rethrow() } inside of a Try::Tiny catch block.	18:07
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@preaction	good morning WebGUI!	19:33
xdanger	so if site uses emails as accountnames, shouldn't it sync the change of email / accountname to each other?	19:43
@preaction	no, you could, but it doesn't happen automatically	19:43
@preaction	and this kind of papercut thing is something i want to address in 8.2 "Users and Groups"	19:44
xdanger	I meant it doesn't but I think it should =)	19:44
@preaction	8.1 is "Back to Basics", 8.2 will be 'Users and Groups', 8.3 will be "Recollaboration", and haven't got any further in my planning yet	19:44
@preaction	but yes, if e-mail is being used as username, the email field probably should be synced with it	19:45
@preaction	just as if e-mail is being validated, it should always be validated	19:45
@preaction	and other weirdnesses of the current system	19:45
xdanger	you could override the email change and have it send an email to the new one with a url to a function that changes it (with a security has, or require the user to be logged in)	19:46
xdanger	should it send an email to the old one also? :)	19:47
@preaction	right, it's not a technical problem, it's a logistics problem: we're trying to push out 8 before it's stillborn	19:47
xdanger	yep	19:47
xdanger	if I write that, I mean the sync with email & account, will you put it in 7.10?	19:48
@preaction	if you get it before the 7.10 freeze, of course	19:48
xdanger	when is the freeze?	19:48
xdanger	and will there be 7.11 ?	19:48
@preaction	December, probably first week of it	19:48
@preaction	no. 8.0 is the next beta cycle	19:49
xdanger	is the 8.x cycle going to be like 6.x?	19:49
xdanger	in that you refine the api	19:49
@preaction	i wasn't around during 6.x, but 8.0.0 will begin the API freeze for 8.x	19:49
@preaction	i will be adding new APIs and deprecating old APIs, but they will continue to work all through 8.x	19:50
xdanger	ok, great	19:50
xdanger	can't wait for 8.0	19:50
@preaction	in fact, many of the APIs i could've removed from 8.0.0 i left just because we hadn't warned anyone about deprecation	19:50
@preaction	unfortunately, i had to mess with WebGUI::Auth->new, as it was completely broken, but the rest of the Auth API should work just fine	19:51
xdanger	I've read your debrication conversations a little =)	19:51
@preaction	Assets will need rewriting, but that's the only bit	19:51
@preaction	otherwise look in the WebGUI8 branch at docs/migration.txt	19:51
xdanger	I'm turning an old (since webgui 6.x) site to allow user registrations, and I want to have them work properly	19:52
@preaction	but the main point of 8.x will be to add the 9.x APIs so we can remove the old ones in 9.0.0	19:53
xdanger	I've been trying the languageOverride today and I'm now of to the user registration	19:53
@preaction	xdanger: if you add some tests for your code to t/Auth.t you can merge the language stuff right away	19:54
xdanger	I decided to hack in a workflow to the DataForm to create the new users so I don't have to change their "workflow" too much	19:55
xdanger	how about the ProfileField, does it have a test?	19:56
@preaction	you'll need to, but you don't have to test anything but what you added (so instance the "language" profile field and make sure its default value is set to the scratch value)	19:56
@preaction	i mean, if you want to test more than that, feel free, it's better for everybody, but we mainly don't want coverage to go down	19:57
xdanger	the ProfileFiled change only changes the default in the selection box to the ovveride value	19:58
xdanger	preaction: should I create a new user in the test, or add it to the creation that is already there?	20:01
@preaction	whichever should work, as long as the test fails without your patch, and passes with your patch	20:02
@preaction	not looking for perfection, just more of a "sunny day" "this is how it should work, but there may be edge cases" sort of thing	20:02
@preaction	a starting point for the feature, so i know what the feature is supposed to do and if an edge case crops up i can just add another test	20:02
xdanger	So German is in the core and I can use that, and it won't be removed?	20:04
@preaction	hm... probably fine for now	20:05
@preaction	we haven't set guidelines on whether or not languages can be removed if they fall behind on their translation	20:05
@frodwith	https://gist.github.com/703750 ... gaaaaaaawd that's cute	20:13
@preaction	nice indeed. i'd almost say it belongs in Try::Tiny period	20:14
@frodwith	oh, I dunno. Not everyone using Try::Tiny does class based exception dispatch	20:15
@frodwith	like the use cases in the Try::Tiny docs are all check-this-string-with-a-regex	20:15
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xdanger	ok, then to forking webgui so I can create my first pull request =D	20:46
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * rfe62171 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset/File.pm t/Asset/Asset.t):	20:49
CIA-74	webgui: fix problem revealed by tests	20:49
CIA-74	webgui: update() in a File asset would always create a storage location if one	20:49
CIA-74	webgui: was not yet saved. calling update() in a filter method would cause	20:49
CIA-74	webgui: another one to be created too, messing up the tests. - http://bit.ly/cYaLMx	20:49
@preaction	good job CIA, just spam the entire commit message instead of just the minimal tag	20:51
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xdanger	uuu, git & github are awesome =)	21:03
xdanger	preaction: did I do that request correctly?	21:09
@preaction	xdanger: yep, i gots it	21:12
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CIA-74	webgui: Paul Driver master * ra3acacd / lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm : make modperl shut up about exit - http://bit.ly/aaSOeP	22:09
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+perlDreamer	my hands will be so happy when we can . instead of ->	23:19
@scrottie	there was a discussion probably a year or two back now on p5p about making $foo`bar do the same thing as $foo->{bar}. I'd really like to have seen that. ultimately, Larry shot it down.	23:23
+perlDreamer	yeah, wasn't ` the old Perl 4 syntax for namespacing?	23:31
* perlDreamer goes off to pickup kids		23:32
Haarg	' not `	23:37
@khenn	are you guys really talking about converting WebGUI to Perl 6?	23:41
@preaction	no	23:41
@preaction	perl 6 does not yet exist	23:41
@khenn	or is perlDreamer dreaming	23:41
@khenn	perlDreamer: my hands will be so happy when we can . instead of ->	23:42
@scrottie	Parrot is great. it combines the speed of the Transmeta CPU with the architectural elegance of the VAX CPU.	23:45
@scrottie	people were migrating from the JVM in droves even before Oracle sued Google and locked the Apache Software Foundation out the validation process.	23:46
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Trex___	Hello again! Many thanks to those who got the files-in-trash bug fixed so quickly and in the next release. :)	23:52
Trex___	I wanted to ask about the .wgaccess files. I noticed that there are two formats -- a simple one-user/group-per-line and one that uses JSON...	23:53
@preaction	yes	23:53
Trex___	Does anyone recall when the change took place?	23:53
@preaction	7.8 or 7.9 most likely	23:53
@preaction	the change was mainly for the Gallery, as there were some permissions problems in there	23:54
Trex___	Should all the existing wgaccess files be changed during upgrades past this point?	23:54
@preaction	either way, both are valid for now, and will be valid to at least 9.x	23:54
@preaction	not that i'm aware of	23:54
@preaction	backwards compatibility is a bit of a tricky artform	23:54
Trex___	I did see that WebGUI::URL::Uploads has routines to handle either type.	23:55
@preaction	moving an old /uploads folder into a new site, for example, after modifying the database by hand	23:55
Trex___	But I was curious because our test site that has been upgraded to 7.9.16 retains the older format, but the newer sites seem to have the JSON format by default.	23:55
Trex___	On our upgraded sites, if you upload a new file, the wgaccess file created is still in the older format. Is that the proper behavior?	23:56
@preaction	any new wgaccess created should be in the new format	23:56
Trex___	Huh. That's not what I'm seeing...	23:57
@preaction	eh, either way it's working fine	23:57
Trex___	I wonder though...the problem I was looking into that caused me to notice this is that we found file URLs (/uploads/...) all are being served out without proper permission controls.	23:58
Trex___	I've tracked it down to that bit of the mod_proxy file that allows uploads without .wgaccess files to be served directly, without WebGUI's involvement. That bit seems to not be "seeing" wgaccess files that truly exist on our systems.	23:59
--- Day changed Thu Nov 18 2010
Trex___	My guess is ownership/permissions somewhere, and I'm helping our sysadmin track down the issue.	00:00
Trex___	There wouldn't be any strange mechanism by which this would affect how wgaccess files are written?	00:01
@preaction	no, the wgaccess file is written and read by modperl. modproxy only checks if it exists	00:02
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Trex___	OK, thanks. Can you tell me what ownership and permissions there ought to be under each domain's uploads directory?	00:08
@preaction	the apache user has to be able to read and write, and for directories, also execute. it should also probably own them, so that it can chmod	00:09
Trex___	Under the wre "webgui" is the apache user?	00:10
@preaction	it is whatever you configured it to be. check wre/etc/wre.conf	00:10
Trex___	Gotcha. Thanks.	00:13
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+perlDreamer	khenn, I figure at some point, perl5 will start using . instead of -> for dereference	00:38
@preaction	no strict; my $obj = Asset->new; print $obj.getTitle <- what now sucka?	00:39
+perlDreamer	my $obj = Asset.new; print $obj.getTitle	00:39
@preaction	i'm saying do that in current Perl and see what happens	00:39
Haarg	Acme::Dot	00:40
Trex___	Aha! Interesting...	00:43
Trex___	Our sites use the mod_proxy rewrite rules as listed in JT's post to this thread: http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/protecting-file-assets/14	00:43
Trex___	...but if I change ${DOCUMENT_ROOT} to %{DOCUMENT_ROOT} this seems to resolve our file access problem.	00:44
Trex___	Was there a change in Apache rewrite rule syntax, perhaps?	00:44
@preaction	no	00:45
@preaction	%{} is a server var, ${} is something else	00:45
+perlDreamer	string interpolation ?	00:46
Trex___	Is JT's use of ${} in this instance correct, then?	00:46
@preaction	well, $1, $2, etc... work	00:46
@preaction	Trex___: does it work?	00:46
Trex___	Changing to %{DOCUMENT_ROOT} does appear to solve the problem. I'm checking some variations to confirm...	00:47
Haarg	${DOCUMENT_ROOT} was incorrect	00:47
Trex___	Yes, after changing to a %, I'm getting the proper behavior for files with permissions set vs. those without.	00:51
Trex___	Is this how the RewriteRule appears in the default WRE configuration?	00:52
Haarg	yes. it was incorrect at one point in the past.	00:53
Trex___	Sorry...I guess I should have specified whether by "this" I meant %{} vs. ${}. :)	00:53
Haarg	it uses % now	00:54
Trex___	OK, thanks. I guess that resolves another mystery of ours.	00:55
Trex___	Our systems were migrated to the wre sometime about 7.3/4 and are getting ready to be upgraded from 7.5.38, so we have a lot of little things whose origin are mysteries lost to the past.	00:56
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Trex___	Thanks again for your help, folks. Time for me to head out and pack for a little road trip.	01:12
Trex___	I'm driving to Chicago tomorrow. I'll give a wave to PlainBlack HQ on my way. :)	01:12
Trex___	...on my way by, rather.	01:13
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+perlDreamer	preaction: new Var-less Session tests passing, time to go through the core and do cleanup	02:19
@preaction	yay!	02:19
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@preaction	perlDreamer: how do i get the leak detection to work in the test suite?	02:24
+perlDreamer	env WEBGUI_TEST_DEBUG=1	02:24
+perlDreamer	then you write a fancy ack to give you test names and leaks	02:25
+perlDreamer	the detection of scratch variables is buggy	02:25
+perlDreamer	but everything else is very trustworthy	02:25
@preaction	there's just a template being left around, but don't know where/why	02:25
@preaction	because it's bugging up a bunch of tests	02:25
+perlDreamer	it'll catch it	02:26
+perlDreamer	it's before the first failing test	02:26
+perlDreamer	but that won't help much	02:26
+perlDreamer	did Session->var->end ever take an argument on which session to close?	02:28
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+perlDreamer	I don't think it did	02:28
+perlDreamer	but it's all over the code	02:28
+perlDreamer	I think I'm almost done	02:34
+perlDreamer	if I am	02:34
+perlDreamer	then tomorrow, I'll merge in 7.10.5	02:34
+perlDreamer	and then the Varless branch	02:35
@preaction	is there supposed to be this much leaking? or is this me?	02:35
+perlDreamer	paste?	02:35
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+perlDreamer	there will be lots of +1 and -1 in the session and scratch	02:36
@preaction	it's already scrolled too high	02:36
+perlDreamer	let's see	02:36
+perlDreamer	ack '^.+$\.t\|^# \w+: \s*\d+'	02:36
+perlDreamer	should do it	02:36
+perlDreamer	do that on the log	02:37
@preaction	is there a log automatically kept?	02:37
+perlDreamer	no	02:37
+perlDreamer	you don't tee your runs by default?	02:37
@preaction	then i have to run the whole shebang again	02:37
+perlDreamer	use tee, it'll help	02:38
+perlDreamer	next time :/	02:38
+perlDreamer	ohhh	03:13
+perlDreamer	bad test breakage in Varless	03:13
+perlDreamer	maybe not	03:14
+perlDreamer	I forgot to update them, too!	03:14
+perlDreamer	rerunning	03:16
@preaction	perlDreamer: perhaps a goal should be that the tests run as-is? that way we know it's backward compatible?	03:30
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@preaction	so every test runs clean after a reset and running individually, but a messload fail after something leaks...	03:56
@preaction	i won't subject you to this, i'll fix it tomorrow	03:56
+perlDreamer	you are a kind and gracious code dictator	04:19
+perlDreamer	I may be back on later tonight, we shall see...	04:19
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:30
+bartjol	morning	16:30
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mducharme-laptop	hey perldreamer	19:00
@scrottie	yarr.	19:02
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+perlDreamer	mducharme-laptop: howdy	20:03
* perlDreamer was at the gym		20:03
mducharme-laptop	perldreamer would you be interested in doing some perl development work for us?	20:04
+perlDreamer	Oh yeah!	20:04
mducharme-laptop	I'm looking at a few different options but I thought I would ask you as well	20:04
+perlDreamer	do you have a spec for what you want?	20:04
mducharme-laptop	I'll message you	20:05
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+perlDreamer	preaction: ready to merge in Varless into WebGUI8!	21:04
@preaction	sounds good	21:04
+perlDreamer	we need to encourage frodwith to fix the Fork issues that we're having	21:04
+perlDreamer	whoa	21:04
+perlDreamer	seamless merge	21:04
+perlDreamer	never happened before	21:04
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdcff137 / (62 files in 22 dirs): Merge branch 'Varless' into WebGUI8 (+5 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/ctUwvd	21:05
Haarg	i kind of hate that Monkey::Patch is being used in core, but if it is, progressbar should probably be adapted to use it instead of doing the symbol table stuff itself	21:12
+perlDreamer	ProgressBar should be moved over to using Fork, no?	21:13
CIA-74	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rb6abeb0 / lib/WebGUI/Deprecate.pm : use Package::Stash for deprecation - http://bit.ly/dC36hx	21:13
Haarg	also, should get frodwith to have Monkey::Patch use Package::Stash for symbol table stuff instead of doing it itself and using Sub::Delete	21:13
Haarg	maybe	21:13
+perlDreamer	preaction: do you want to talk through making Session::Id not dependent on Session?	21:29
@preaction	what needs talking through?	21:29
+perlDreamer	well, the config filename is part of the data that's encrypted	21:30
+perlDreamer	should we use a config object instead?	21:30
+perlDreamer	or something else altogether?	21:30
@preaction	perhaps you could pass in that value to generate if you wanted, but it would be optional?	21:31
+perlDreamer	the shorter the message gets, the less randomness you have	21:31
+perlDreamer	and the higher chance of a collision	21:31
+perlDreamer	it's already compromised as it is	21:31
+perlDreamer	since the last digit is guaranteed to be one of 4 characters	21:31
@preaction	yes, from 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% to 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%	21:31
Haarg	it's 128 bits of 'randomness'	21:33
+perlDreamer	I know that it's not really random, maybe uniqueness would be a better word	21:33
Haarg	the config file makes sense as something to use, but it could maybe use the hostname if that isn't available	21:34
@preaction	a uuid4 would be fine. if anyone gets a collision, i'll buy you a new house	21:34
+perlDreamer	is that a promise?	21:36
+perlDreamer	I know where the paper is on how to bust MD5	21:36
+perlDreamer	I figure it's only a couple of weeks worth of work	21:36
+perlDreamer	and SHA1 isn't too far behind	21:37
@preaction	nothing can protect against malice	21:37
Haarg	uuid 4 is just random numbers right?	21:37
@preaction	yes	21:37
Haarg	and we don't have a good random seed really	21:37
Haarg	and i don't remember if perl/mod_perl re-seeds on fork	21:38
+perlDreamer	or plack?	21:38
@preaction	we're spending an awful lot of time discussing something that has a snowball's chance in hell of actually being a problem	21:39
Haarg	well, anything plack would just do whatever perl fork does	21:39
Haarg	if the seed isn't reset it would be pretty easy for it to happen	21:39
Haarg	in fact it would be very likely to happen	21:39
+perlDreamer	the number sequence is repeatable	21:40
@scrottie	I've got a good random number generator ya'll can use =)	21:40
Haarg	sha1/md5 doesn't really factor into the guids because all they are really being used for is to turn the input into something that is always 128bits	21:42
+perlDreamer	always 128bits, and try to make it unique globally, across sites, servers and so on	21:43
Haarg	but the uniqueness doesn't come from the hash	21:44
Haarg	it comes from the input	21:44
Haarg	all it's doing in our case is making the output the right length	21:44
+perlDreamer	so what if we just switched to using Data::UUID?	21:45
Haarg	which uuid version?	21:45
+perlDreamer	according to the docs for that module, it makes v3 UUIDs	21:47
+perlDreamer	it just comes to mind because the author is RJBS	21:48
+perlDreamer	I'm just saying that maybe we should use a standard module to do it	21:48
Haarg	uuid3 needs input	21:48
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure where the input comes from	21:49
+perlDreamer	it's in the XS source	21:49
+perlDreamer	Stevan Little gives it 5 starts	21:50
+perlDreamer	it has 3 open bugs, most dealing with either windows, or the docs	21:50
+perlDreamer	seems to take at least processID, and system time	21:51
+perlDreamer	uses MD5	21:51
@scrottie	seriously, I've got some fun sh%t.	21:52
+perlDreamer	http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/RJBS/Data-UUID-1.217/UUID.xs	21:52
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Haarg	that's probably the best way to go. i was just wary of things just using a random source that was unknown.	21:58
Haarg	substr(Data::UUID->new->create_b64, 0, -2)	21:58
* perlDreamer will go to lunch and wait for preaction's feedback		22:00
+perlDreamer	sounds good to me though	22:01
+perlDreamer	and do we want to wrap it/extend it, or just make everyone use it when you want an id?	22:02
+perlDreamer	I think I favor extending it, for backwards compatibility	22:02
Haarg	you mean provide $session->id->whatever?	22:02
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Haarg	http://gist.github.com/705544	22:20
Haarg	seems to work	22:20
Haarg	if fork should be used instead someone else can work on that	22:20
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@preaction	i would say for now provide session->id->* and deprecate them all. we can use UUID when appropriate and most people should be using our APIs for everything important anyway (and when we move to an ORM, everything ever)	22:49
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, preaction: could y'all try running this and pasting the output back? http://gist.github.com/705825	00:47
Haarg	http://gist.github.com/705829	00:48
+perlDreamer	it looks like it's counting	00:48
+perlDreamer	really weird that only the top 3 characters are changing	00:49
Haarg	it is	00:49
Haarg	it's a v1 uuid	00:49
Haarg	they are based on the mac address and the time	00:50
+perlDreamer	it's odd, the docs for 1.217 says they're v3 UUIDs	00:51
+perlDreamer	but I only have 1.215 installed	00:52
Haarg	v3 uuids need input	00:52
Haarg	it makes v1 uuids if you don't give it anything	00:52
Haarg	we could probably go with v4 uuids and have it work	00:52
Haarg	if we wanted random	00:52
+perlDreamer	unique should be good enough?	00:53
Haarg	doesn't really matter to me much. UUID::Tiny is probably the simplest bet for v4 uuids	00:54
Haarg	although you'd have to handle the base64 encoding	00:54
+perlDreamer	we do that now	00:56
+perlDreamer	we'd just be replacing 1 line of perl	00:56
@preaction	so i don't want to try to fix these tests, as they all succeed individually, but i don't want to saddle anyone else. i need to move on. should i just branch off, reset to remote/upstream and do something else?	01:05
+perlDreamer	in 8 branch, there are only 3 failing tests	01:05
+perlDreamer	both of which fail due to WebGUI::Fork	01:05
@preaction	and the last is EMSSubmission.t	01:06
+perlDreamer	CopyBranch, AssetExportHtml and VersionTag.t	01:06
+perlDreamer	EMSSubmission.t has failed (and will fail) for months	01:06
+perlDreamer	as with POD.t	01:06
+perlDreamer	If you have tests other than those that are failing, they need to be fixed	01:06
@preaction	all the other ones i have failing are due to bad cleanup in previous scripts	01:06
@preaction	they run clean when run immediately after a reset	01:07
+perlDreamer	so why did they stop cleaning up?	01:07
@preaction	i can't tell with the Admin.t one, i'm thinking of making the session table update not happen if request doesn't exist, but that sounds evil	01:07
+perlDreamer	very evil	01:07
+perlDreamer	how 'bout this	01:08
+perlDreamer	I need to take a break	01:08
+perlDreamer	between the two of us, we should be able to figure out why Admin.t isn't cleaning up	01:08
@preaction	i just merged your varless, i'll re-run the whole suite again with -rv and DEBUG	01:08
+perlDreamer	sounds good	01:09
+perlDreamer	Admin.t doesn't leak for me in WebGUI 8	01:30
+perlDreamer	what's it leaking in your branch?	01:30
@preaction	wtf it stopped leaking	01:31
+perlDreamer	the leak must have gotten plugged up	01:31
+perlDreamer	does that fix all the problems?	01:32
@preaction	Asset/Asset.t leaks 6 assets, but that's obviously from the addRevision changes. i'm going in to remove all the tag stuff from tests	01:32
@preaction	if i were to add an API to get a test asset to add stuff to and will automatically purge itself, should i call it WebGUI::Test->asset(props)?	01:33
+perlDreamer	eh, I thought about that	01:34
+perlDreamer	like for users, groups, etc	01:34
+perlDreamer	but you'd have to wrap so much	01:34
+perlDreamer	and, does it need a parent?	01:35
@preaction	you'd use asset to get an asset to add things to	01:35
+perlDreamer	is the asset automatically committed?	01:35
@preaction	it's just a safe location to add stuff to test, and if that asset gets purged, the entire branch under it gets purged	01:35
@preaction	it isn't part of a tag	01:35
@preaction	by default it would just make a layout in the import node. but you could pass any properties to make any kind of asset you want	01:36
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+perlDreamer	if I did that, I would call it get_asset	01:38
+perlDreamer	but plain asset is good, too	01:38
+perlDreamer	I like get_asset better because it makes it clear that you can't assign to it	01:39
@preaction	but you could assign to it. why make a layout when you know you need a collab?	01:39
+perlDreamer	I assign to it, like WebGUI::Test->asset($asset)	01:40
+perlDreamer	instead of $props	01:40
+perlDreamer	now you have to care whether it's an object, or a hashref	01:40
@preaction	eh, addChild would sort that out right quick	01:40
+perlDreamer	yes, by dying :)	01:40
@preaction	i found my problem: the leak is printed in the log before the output of the test, not after	01:48
@preaction	so it's assetClipboard leaking for me, not Admin	01:49
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+perlDreamer	it's not leaking for me in 8	01:49
@preaction	it was because of my changes	01:50
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdb1ee99 / lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm : Don't use the deprecated methods in the core. - http://bit.ly/aBxpwb	01:52
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9a1c82f / lib/WebGUI/International.pm : Remove deprecated user methods from International - http://bit.ly/c2ryvi	01:52
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rae48e75 / lib/WebGUI/DateTime.pm : Remove profileField method from DateTime. - http://bit.ly/coLkvP	01:52
@preaction	<3 testing full suite problems not apparent in single-test problems. run the entire suite again and again and again and again!	01:55
+perlDreamer	yeah, but so slow...	02:02
+perlDreamer	actually	02:02
+perlDreamer	why do you have to do that?	02:02
+perlDreamer	if you know the leaky test	02:02
+perlDreamer	then you just run it with DEBUG=1	02:02
+perlDreamer	map ,t :!env WEBGUI_LIVE=1 WEBGUI_TEST_DEBUG=1 CODE_COP=1 perl % > foo 2>&1^M	02:03
+perlDreamer	put that into your .vimrc, preaction	02:03
+perlDreamer	and you'll always DEBUG for a single test	02:03
@preaction	it's leaky tests causing failures in other tests, so i don't know which leaky test is causing which problem, so i have to investigate problems	02:04
+perlDreamer	hm, but the last full run that you did has every leaky test in it	02:05
+perlDreamer	and this will help you find them all	02:08
+perlDreamer	ack '(?:^# \w+\s:\s\d+\s*.delta)\|(?:^\S+?\.t)' proven \| less	02:08
+perlDreamer	it will print out test names	02:08
+perlDreamer	and leak output	02:08
+perlDreamer	we should really identify it more clearly	02:08
+perlDreamer	to simplify that regexp	02:08
+perlDreamer	but, oh well	02:08
+perlDreamer	hm, WikiMaster is leaking 2 groups...	02:09
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r59c03b5 / (41 files in 16 dirs): Change occurances of user->profileField to user->get - http://bit.ly/96spHe	02:12
+perlDreamer	that will silence a bunch of deprecation warnings	02:15
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8255b69 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove more deprecated uses of profileField. - http://bit.ly/clRkZg	02:17
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@preaction	why do we have the additional arguments in addChild/addRevision for the ID? why can't the ID be specified in the properties, or one generated?	02:44
@preaction	and skipNotification is a property of assets with notification, why the extra thing way at the end?	02:54
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+perlDreamer	preaction: You'd have to ask The Designer	03:16
+perlDreamer	remember, that option arguments to subs were a recent invention	03:16
@preaction	i know, just wondering if anyone remembered why we did it that way instead of another	03:17
+perlDreamer	IMO: assetId should be in the properties	03:17
+perlDreamer	and, re skipNotification, I think that it may have dual use	03:18
+perlDreamer	hm, it would appear that subsciption groups are not being cleaned up on purge...	03:22
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CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re03bb22 / lib/WebGUI/Wizard/Setup.pm : More deprecation fixes. - http://bit.ly/9cEPEQ	05:41
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carogray	hey bartjol: you there?	13:01
+bartjol	carogray: yeah	13:01
carogray	quick ?	13:02
+bartjol	well, I'm forced to go to lunch now	13:02
carogray	can you refer or call one snippet from another?	13:02
carogray	stomach forcing you	13:02
+bartjol	sure	13:02
+bartjol	no, martin	13:02
+bartjol	and joeri	13:02
carogray	aaa	13:02
+bartjol	but you should be able	13:02
+bartjol	to do that	13:02
carogray	oh yes..	13:03
carogray	just wasn't sure if it would work, kind of like difficult to make a shortcut to a shortcut	13:03
carogray	go enjoy lunch	13:03
carogray	let me know what you had when you get back:)	13:03
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+bartjol	oh, just bread and milk	13:39
carogray	is this a typical lunch for you?	13:40
+bartjol	but snippets are just code	13:40
+bartjol	yes	13:40
+bartjol	mainly dutch habit I suppose	13:40
carogray	yes, I know snippets are just code. I realized after I did it, that really it wouldn't work.	13:40
+bartjol	well, depends on what you are trying to do	13:41
carogray	I forgot our header which is a snippet we call from all of our English page style layouts is actually in the body of the page itself	13:41
carogray	it's a javascript for google analytics I wanted to put one place and then have all the page style layouts which already call the header snippet, or footer snippet to be able to get it without having to paste it into each one	13:42
carogray	in the end I just stuck it into all of the page style layouts anyway.	13:42
+bartjol	well	13:42
+bartjol	you can still do it with a snippet	13:43
carogray	but after the </body> before the </html> like whoever at the WUC 2009 suggested	13:43
+bartjol	but you have to call it somehwere	13:43
+bartjol	oh, I don't recall that	13:43
carogray	yes I did do it with a snippet, just had to put the call to the snippet into each page style layout	13:43
+bartjol	well, still not to bad	13:44
+bartjol	too	13:44
carogray	yes I cannot remember his name, I think it was at the WUC it was all about helping pages load as quickly as possible	13:44
carogray	a session on it, you may not have attended that session.	13:44
+bartjol	oh, wasn't that patrick?	13:44
carogray	So now I put all of my .js at the very end of the page.... ..	13:44
+bartjol	for some js that doesn't work unfortunately I believe	13:45
carogray	you know I really cannot remember who did it it may well have been Patrick - most of what he talked about Patrick that is went way over my head	13:45
carogray	Ja I expect not, but every time I put in a .js I try it to see. I don't actually use that much at all.	13:45
+bartjol	yeah, the guy is smart, but pretty sure he gave a presentation about that	13:45
carogray	well that's probably where I heard	13:46
carogray	it	13:46
carogray	How is your language stuff coming along?	13:46
carogray	I just started trying something new thinking I was so clever, but realized it isn't that great after all.	13:46
+bartjol	http://www.webgui.org/wgtv/tricking-people-into-thinking-your-website-is-fast#idhXgZGkUAK02TTzGjb9kXUw	13:47
+bartjol	well my language stuff is finished (as far as I will go)	13:48
+bartjol	it is implemented since 7.8	13:48
carogray	I create one language box on the English page with links to all of the other languages for that page in the article, but the html is commented out.	13:48
carogray	OH yes, that was patrick	13:48
carogray	is he the same patspam in australia?	13:48
+bartjol	well, he live in New York now	13:48
+bartjol	lives	13:48
carogray	huh	13:48
+bartjol	but it's the very same	13:49
carogray	still working for Australian company though or did he change companies?	13:49
+bartjol	but for conetnt in different areas the solution is still not ideal	13:49
+bartjol	he works for google now	13:49
carogray	wow - that doesn't surprise me at all	13:50
carogray	it kind of validates that he is in fact as brilliant as he appeared to be	13:50
+bartjol	he went there mostly to go live with his girlfriend	13:50
carogray	oh I love that	13:50
carogray	what's she do - think we shouldn't be gossiping like this?	13:50
+bartjol	but on the language box, can you expand?	13:51
+bartjol	well	13:51
carogray	ah yes..	13:51
+bartjol	he can read it in the logs	13:51
carogray	right thought so	13:51
carogray	so language box..	13:51
+bartjol	can I see it somewhere?	13:51
+bartjol	and you are trying to go to defiirent content areas, or changing webgui language?	13:52
carogray	then I thought instead of making 6 copies of each language box and copying and pasting the same stuff but different languages commented out, i would just make shortcuts and then use the overrides in the different languages	13:52
carogray	go to differen content areas	13:52
carogray	different	13:52
+bartjol	what version are you running?	13:53
carogray	for example http://www.masslegalhelp.org/housing/dv/vawa-federal-public-housing	13:53
carogray	umm 7.7.21	13:54
carogray	for some reason I thought we had upgraded to .35	13:54
carogray	but it doesn't seem to be the case	13:54
+bartjol	how do you see it exactly, via the page info?	13:55
carogray	don't understand your question	13:55
+bartjol	because that can be just hardcoded in the template	13:56
+bartjol	how you get your version	13:56
carogray	oh.. your asking me about version	13:56
+bartjol	sorry	13:56
carogray	yes,	13:56
carogray	view source	13:56
carogray	but I am pretty sure it's not hard coded into template(s)	13:56
+bartjol	ok, go to the admin console and choose statistics	13:56
+bartjol	there you get the real version	13:57
carogray	<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">	13:57
carogray	<html>	13:57
carogray	<head>	13:57
carogray	<title>^Page(title); - <tmpl_var session.setting.companyName></title>	13:57
carogray	<link href="^/;mlh-shared/snippets/global.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet"></link>	13:57
+bartjol	that is also fakeable, but it costs much more effort, and you would be aware	13:57
carogray	<script type="text/javascript" src="^/;global.js"></script>	13:57
carogray	<tmpl_var head.tags>	13:57
carogray	</head>	13:57
carogray	shitQ!	13:57
carogray	sorry	13:57
+bartjol	what foul language :)	13:58
carogray	WebGUI Build Version:7.7.21-stableLatest version available:7.9.18-stable	13:58
carogray	yes I know, sorry	13:58
carogray	mouse is broken and fingers getting itchy using touch pad	13:59
+bartjol	ok, so there are not too many options from webgui itself	13:59
carogray	if we were running more recent versions there would be webgui options?	13:59
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+bartjol	well, you might also be able to use some other languages as session language (not all that you need, but the webgui language files are not really what we need	14:00
+bartjol	it is the possibility to set a scratch variable in the session and be able to detect that	14:01
+bartjol	if messages from webgui don't exist, you'll just get english	14:01
carogray	you are a couple of steps beyond what I know here, I am just remembering what you said about recognizing other languages from where they are in the directory structure.. or at least that's what I understood you to mean when you explained your ideas to me last year.	14:02
+bartjol	well, there are different ways :)	14:03
+bartjol	but that is indeed the other option I developed, but too hard to use to get it into the core	14:04
carogray	with my shortcuts solution it still means I have to go into each language box and edit, but there is still less opportunity for mistakes if the only thing I am editing is commenting in and out and one language box has all of the languages, titles and urls in one place.	14:04
carogray	oh my goodness it's already light out here!	14:06
carogray	now I have to go feed all the critters and get back to work and not keep you from yours any longer. Thanks for chat	14:06
+bartjol	well if you need something, you know where to find me	14:07
carogray	ja, thanks - what is danke in dutch?	14:07
+bartjol	bedankt	14:07
carogray	bedanktQ!	14:08
carogray	oops	14:08
carogray	bedankt	14:08
+bartjol	mmm, you have something with capital q's	14:08
carogray	yes, itchy little finger keeps falling on it.	14:08
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SquOnk	Greetings!	14:15
SquOnk	FYI, webgui 7.9.18 is back into Debian Sid	14:15
SquOnk	It can be installed on Squeeze by means of pinning (I'll update the WiKi page later)	14:16
+bartjol	cool	14:17
SquOnk	This is the last webgui package that will have all languages bundled together. Starting from 7.9.19-1, webgui will have English only, but you'll be able to install webgui-i18n-es, webgui-i18n-de and webgui-i18n-du	14:17
+bartjol	we got rid of the GNU/GPL problems?	14:17
SquOnk	...to save space :-)	14:17
SquOnk	bartjol: Not completely, but almost there.	14:17
SquOnk	bartjol: The .swf issue is still there, but since webgui is not targeted for Squeeze, the bug can be open	14:18
SquOnk	What will be the fifth translation bundled? Who's "winning", so to speak? :-)	14:19
+bartjol	polish is quite far	14:20
+bartjol	over 50%	14:20
+bartjol	how will that work during upgrades? I don't suppose aptitude does support webgui updates	14:23
SquOnk	bartjol: Indeed it does	14:24
SquOnk	bartjol: If you are upgrading from 7.x.y to 7.x.z, z > y, it runs the upgrade scripts for you.	14:25
SquOnk	bartjol: Major upgrades are a WIP. The package will check if you're upgrading from an upgradeable version before doing it, or it will let you know what to do.	14:25
+bartjol	ok, and does it check perl environment?	14:26
+bartjol	maybe I should replace my installl by the bedian package	14:27
SquOnk	bartjol: You mean for needed dependencies? The package won't install unless all dependencies are Debian-provided.	14:27
+bartjol	debian, excuse me	14:27
SquOnk	bartjol: The 7.9.18 package took this long because I was waiting for libmonkey-patch-perl to make it into Sid :-)	14:27
+bartjol	ok, so running testEnvironmnet is still needed	14:27
SquOnk	bartjol: Only if you want to double check my work :-)	14:28
SquOnk	bartjol: The Debian package states the needed dependencies, aptitude brings them in.	14:28
+bartjol	I mostly switched to manual upgrade, because of gotcha's	14:28
SquOnk	bartjol: Everytime WebGUI adds a new dependency, I add it to the package dependency list and if it wasn't in Debian before, I make that happen too.	14:29
+bartjol	ah	14:29
+bartjol	very nice	14:29
SquOnk	bartjol: Another thing I'm going to work on is having Debian's tinymce package have at least spanish, german and dutch translations...	14:31
SquOnk	bartjol: ...so the webgui package can count on them being there :-)	14:31
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+bartjol	also very cool, but I thought those were included in the source of webgui	14:37
SquOnk	bartjol: Even if they were, Debian does not allow wholesaling, meaning that I have to strip WebGUI's sources taking out YUI and TinyMCE, and have the package use their Debian packages instead.	14:39
+bartjol	whoa, that packaging is more work than I thought	14:40
+bartjol	prolly especially the first time	14:40
SquOnk	bartjol: Indeed	14:56
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SDuensin	FrIdAy!	16:29
+bartjol	so it is	16:50
SDuensin	Good thing, too. Work is sucking my will to live.	16:51
+bartjol	time for other work?	16:51
SDuensin	Has been since I started here.	16:53
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+bartjol	howdy perlDreamer	18:14
+perlDreamer	bartjol!	18:14
+perlDreamer	hey	18:14
+bartjol	ho!	18:14
+perlDreamer	how are things back east?	18:14
+bartjol	good, tonight menu deciding for a xhristmas dinner\	18:15
+perlDreamer	cool	18:15
+bartjol	where I hsall be sous-chef	18:15
+perlDreamer	That's tempting enough to ask for an invitation	18:15
+perlDreamer	I've had your cooking before, and it's awesome	18:16
+bartjol	mainly cutting vegetables and trying to translate the chefs shouting to normal, polite requests	18:16
+perlDreamer	that's kind of what I do for WebGUI :)	18:16
+bartjol	well, it is open, you can buy tickets	18:16
+bartjol	:)	18:16
+bartjol	indeed it is	18:17
+perlDreamer	hm, plane fare to The Netherlands	18:17
+perlDreamer	are there discounts for visiting dignataries?	18:17
+bartjol	the dinner itself will only be 15 euro's I believe	18:17
+perlDreamer	that's very reasonable for dinner	18:17
+bartjol	well, I can inform you on the menu, after that you can decide that you WILL come	18:18
+bartjol	it is one organised by that youth society	18:18
+perlDreamer	hm, after my anniversary party I'm not sure I could afford it all	18:18
+perlDreamer	today marks the 2 year anniversary of PerlDreamer Consulting	18:20
+bartjol	aah, congratulations	18:20
+perlDreamer	thanks	18:22
+bartjol	and how are you celebrating	18:24
+bartjol	you could have hired me as cook	18:24
+perlDreamer	you'd fly out to Portland?	18:25
+perlDreamer	well, there are additional incentives to coming to Portland	18:25
+perlDreamer	we have more breweries than Madison	18:25
+perlDreamer	but we don't have Sarah or JT	18:25
+perlDreamer	the seafood is much more fresh in Portland	18:25
+perlDreamer	and we have lots of cows and cheese	18:25
+bartjol	well the price of hiring me iincludes the ticket fare	18:26
+bartjol	the rest does sounds good	18:26
+bartjol	except the lack of JT and Sarah of course	18:27
+perlDreamer	I've tried to get them to mvoe	18:28
+perlDreamer	move	18:28
+perlDreamer	JT is mad for electric cars	18:28
+perlDreamer	and we're getting a whole fleet of them in Portland	18:28
+perlDreamer	along with charging stations	18:28
+bartjol	ah, cool, I saw those things in France	18:32
@khenn	Electric cars?	18:54
@khenn	really?	18:54
@khenn	what kind?	18:54
@khenn	the 25mph things?	18:54
+perlDreamer	Nissan Leafs	18:54
@khenn	ah	18:54
@khenn	nice	18:54
+perlDreamer	oh no, they go faster than 25 mph	18:54
@khenn	yeah	18:54
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r68638c2 / lib/WebGUI/Wizard/Setup.pm : Fix incorrect translation of $user->profileField to $user->get. ProfileField was a mutator, not just an accessor. - http://bit.ly/a4RmY4	18:54
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd02472c / (lib/WebGUI/Session.pm lib/WebGUI/Session/Id.pm): Change Session::ID to no longer need a session. Instead, you pass it a seed for salting the hash generation. - http://bit.ly/bbhXca	18:54
+perlDreamer	khenn, I wouldn't mind one of the 25 mph cars, since most of the things I drive to on a weekly basis are all on surface streets and quite close to home	19:04
@khenn	I just got a Prius	19:05
@khenn	and though 46-48 mpg is good	19:05
@khenn	I'd rather not pay for gas at all =)	19:05
+perlDreamer	there are ways to hack them to all electrical	19:08
+perlDreamer	and to add more/better batteries	19:08
+perlDreamer	but you'll void your warranty doing it	19:08
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@khenn	and you probably need some knowledge and general interest in cars	19:17
@khenn	neither of which I have	19:17
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym		20:11
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@preaction	hm... apparently a long time ago I left a TODO test for a feature for the Redirect asset to pass on query parameters in the redirect...	20:55
@preaction	i like the idea. i should add more TODO tests for features I want to the core WebGUI	20:55
@preaction	which reminds me! perlDreamer whatever became of the Asset Diff branch?	20:55
@preaction	tee hee hee i'm deleting code, lots of code, lots and lots and lots of code, tee hee hee!	21:00
@preaction	3800 lines of test results verified and fixed. 5000 to go	21:38
@preaction	fun fact: a full test run with debug and verbose is over 20,000 lines of output	21:38
@preaction	we should stick more of these in to xt/, or is xt not to be used for release test runs?	21:40
+perlDreamer	xt should be used for release tests	21:40
+perlDreamer	no bad template	21:40
+perlDreamer	no missing i18n	21:40
+perlDreamer	no bad POD	21:40
+perlDreamer	however, end users shouldn't have to run tests	21:41
@preaction	right, but i think t/ is for "development tests", you run often while developing. xt is for "release tests", you run once when you're ready to commit to make sure your code is up to standards	21:41
@preaction	but then i'm probably wrong	21:42
+perlDreamer	without meaning offense to other developers, but every commit should pass development tests	21:42
+perlDreamer	because I'm not writing POD for 120 modules again	21:42
@preaction	yes, before you commit you should pass both t/ and xt/	21:42
+perlDreamer	ah, but if they have to remember to _run_ both...?	21:42
@preaction	but t/ is for while you're developing, you can run them often to make sure you're not breaking stuff	21:43
@preaction	xt is like our CODE_COP	21:43
@preaction	well, they don't run CODE_COP as it is	21:43
+perlDreamer	no	21:43
@preaction	damned social problems that can't be solved by technical means...	21:43
+perlDreamer	and the CODE_COP tests take 40 minutes to run	21:43
+perlDreamer	yay, one less leaky test in the world!	21:51
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rcd0986e / t/Exception/app.t : Fix session leak from this test. - http://bit.ly/9L1Ssz	21:51
@preaction	crap... i fixed that too :(	21:52
@preaction	i'm fixing every leak ever! ;)	21:52
+perlDreamer	how did you fix it?	21:52
@preaction	well, no, it's just gonna conflict	21:52
+perlDreamer	You da man!	21:52
+perlDreamer	no it won't	21:52
+perlDreamer	I'll rollback my commit	21:52
@preaction	no worries	21:52
+perlDreamer	but, please assign that ticket to yourself so I don't do it again ;)	21:52
@preaction	it's not a big deal	21:52
@preaction	it's not that ticket though, it's addRevision. i don't know what leaks are causing problems	21:53
@preaction	4888 lines of output to go...	21:53
@preaction	120 lines in 15 minutes... sigh...	21:53
+perlDreamer	aren't you using that ack thing I sent yesterday to isolate the leaks?	21:54
@preaction	no, it didn't work	21:54
+perlDreamer	what?	21:54
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/707041	21:55
+perlDreamer	that's what it prints out for me	21:55
+perlDreamer	so, prove -rm --verbose t \| ack '(?:^# \w+\s:\s\d+\s*.delta)\|(?:^\S+?\.t)'	22:01
+perlDreamer	or capture and post process	22:01
+perlDreamer	and this could be my favorite	22:01
+perlDreamer	prove -rm --verbose t \| tee proven \| ack '(?:^# \w+\s:\s\d+\s*.delta)\|(?:^\S+?\.t)'	22:01
+perlDreamer	so you just get a status and leaks on STDOUT	22:02
* perlDreamer goes to grab some chow		22:02
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+perlDreamer	preaction: maybe it'd be easier for you to say what you hate about the Icon API, instead of going through pre-development discovery	23:16
+perlDreamer	I'm not overly fond of it either, because it's not DRY	23:17
@preaction	i hate that edit() cut() and etc... are individual methods	23:17
+perlDreamer	but I suspect you have other concerns than that	23:17
+perlDreamer	so we'd have 12 Packages that have to know the icon and i18n label for Edit?	23:17
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@preaction	1500 lines of test output to go. i've touched 70% of the test scripts in WebGUI...	01:57
@preaction	419 to go! yay!	02:01
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CIA-74	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * re71e955 / (lib/WebGUI/Session/Id.pm t/Session/Id.t lib/WebGUI/GUID.pm): add WebGUI::GUID and make WebGUI::Session::Id a wrapper around that - http://bit.ly/cUMzXY	02:33
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Alyohara	!rules	04:34
Alyohara	!list	04:34
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elnino	anyone awake?	06:16
elnino	when the admin guide says "apache config" file, they mean the modproxy.conf files, right?	06:18
elnino	when do you ever modify the modproxy.conf files?	06:18
elnino	and last question of the evening, in regards to passthruurls, what was the webgui conf file directive called that you can write/set to different handlers for passthruurls? I'm not seeing it in the admin guide. Thanks!	06:21
@preaction	it may mean the .modproxy file, it may mean the .modperl file	06:22
@preaction	and you're thinking urlHandlers i think	06:22
elnino	ok. and yes! it is. thanks.	06:22
elnino	have a good night preaction. Thanks for being up and awake!	06:23
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CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb640216 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Remove URL handlers from config files, and from the default config file. Add a stub to the migration notes that URLHandlers are now done as Plack Middleware. - http://bit.ly/aCPRc4	03:26
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb830bd8 / docs/migration.txt : Add documentation about the removal of WebGUI::Session::Var and how to handle migration. - http://bit.ly/cU1jwI	03:37
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CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re5adc07 / (27 files in 16 dirs): Remove getStatus and setStatus in Session::Http, and replace them with status, from $session->status. - http://bit.ly/aLGmkN	07:12
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+perlDreamer	man, I love refactoring code!	07:45
+perlDreamer	it's just awesome	07:45
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CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfd8f03a / (52 files in 20 dirs): Change getMimeType and setMimeType to response->content_type. - http://bit.ly/c3YD9k	08:36
+perlDreamer	preaction, Haarg: I'm looking at the task to eliminate Session->Http, and it looks to me like content chunking is basically dead.	08:54
+perlDreamer	there's no way to push the headers out early, since we ship back a response object to Plack	08:54
+perlDreamer	This would have big implications to the design of Assets in 8, and could lead to getting rid of prepareView	08:55
+perlDreamer	does that sound right to y'all?	08:55
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SDuensin	Hey gang.	16:33
plainhao	happy thanksgiving monday	16:37
SDuensin	It won't be truly happy until Thursday. :-/	16:39
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CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8b6bbdb / (9 files in 4 dirs): Remove setFilename, getFilename from Session::Http, and use Plack::Response methods instead. - http://bit.ly/anXrC0	18:07
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+perlDreamer	hey, sbaur!	18:17
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sbaur	hi perldreamer!	18:17
sbaur	i figured I'd start lurking, maybe i'd learn something :)	18:18
+perlDreamer	lurk away ;)	18:18
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* SDuensin is good at lurking		18:19
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+perlDreamer	dang, I think streaming file downloads are broken in WebGUI 8	18:26
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Haarg	perlDreamer, having content chunking and allowing headers to be set may not be possible without changing the program flow	19:22
+perlDreamer	I know	19:22
+perlDreamer	I don't think losing content chunking is necessarily a bad thing	19:22
+perlDreamer	because it makes assets easier to handle	19:22
+perlDreamer	no more prepareView :)	19:23
+perlDreamer	no more worries about JS and CSS in the body of the content	19:24
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r995b04e / (8 files in 6 dirs): Remove getRedirectLocation and setRedirectLocation from Session::Http - http://bit.ly/dnqqzM	19:29
+perlDreamer	well, there's not too much left in Session::Http anymore	19:33
Haarg	we could possibly make something where you can call ->sendHeader (or something like it) and pass in a subref	19:37
Haarg	and inside that you would do chunking stuff	19:38
Haarg	which would make it relatively easy to adapt existing code	19:38
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, you think I might be premature about thinking about getting rid of prepareView?	19:51
Haarg	as annoying as content chunking is, i'm not sure we want to remove it	19:51
+perlDreamer	gut feel, backwards compat, or something else?	19:52
CIA-74	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re7fcf33 / (5 files in 4 dirs): Move ifModifiedSince into WebGUI::Session::Request - http://bit.ly/bLxbUY	19:54
Haarg	it does improve the user experience somewhat	19:54
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+perlDreamer	well as it stands now, content chunking doesn't work at all	20:09
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+perlDreamer	I think	20:10
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Haarg	did the docs/testing/prepreq changes get done for WebGUI::GUID?	23:34
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