WebGUI irc logs from: 2009-07.log

--- Log opened Wed Jul 01 00:00:55 2009
ckotilmust be perlDreamer Time00:04
@preactionmust be. 00:05
@preactionhe just thinks the world goes round him00:05
ckotilthankfully its quittin time. have a good evening.00:06
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CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11395 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/create.sql: Preparing for 7.6.29 release.02:08
+perlmonkey2Is there a Form type that creates a select list which takes an array?  I'm not sure why Form::SelectList takes a hash and sets the text as the key value.  02:14
@preactionperlmonkey2: map { $_ => $_ } @array02:16
+perlmonkey2That is certainly a solution :)02:16
+perlDreamertavisto: http://www.mil-oss.org/02:16
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2, I think this will work, too: join "\n", @array02:17
@tavistoI'll actually be in atlanta but on Jul 15-21st02:18
@tavistoson of ah02:18
+perlmonkey2map only returns a list right?  selectList only takes a ref to a hash.  or am I missing something.02:21
+perlDreamer{ } fixes that02:21
+perlDreamerselectList will also take a string02:21
+perlDreamertavisto: I can't tell if that is the military talking to us, or us to present to the military02:22
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+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: join with \n adds an extra blank choice.02:28
+perlmonkey2why can't I figure out a simple selectList?02:28
+perlDreamerIt's the weather outside02:29
+perlmonkey2trying to reverse engineer how to set the selected value in it from the toHtml code is driving me nuts.02:29
+perlmonkey2and where is the code that allows it to take a \n delimited string?02:31
+perlDreamerWebGUI::Form::List, ->getOptions02:34
+perlDreamerselectList inherits from that02:35
+perlmonkey2yeah, looking at it now.  just can't figure out why my [value, defaultValue, default] optoins aren't setting one of the selections to selected.02:35
+perlmonkey2getOriginalValue must be satiated.02:36
+perlmonkey2it's just too fancy for me.02:40
+perlmonkey2guess I should hand code my selectLists02:40
+perlmonkey2$f->selectList( name  => "provider", options => join("\n",@$classes), label => 'Select provider:', value=> $info->{provider}); should work when value is in the optoins list, but it surely doesn't.02:41
+perlDreamerwhy not add a test to t/Form/SelectList.t to check it out?02:42
+perlDreamermaybe it's a real bug02:42
+perlmonkey2can't be cause Auth uses it and it appears to work.....well, jsut sec I'll see if it does.02:43
* perlDreamer is going to take a benadryl-assisted nap02:43
+perlDreamerI'll backlog when I'm back02:43
+perlDreamersorry for skipping out on you, perlmonkey202:43
+perlmonkey2no worries, but setting the value works for 'selected' in the Auth usage.02:44
@tavistoyeah I'm not sure either perldreamer02:48
+perlmonkey2oh this is killing me.  It was a firefox rendering issue where 'selected' wasn't being highlighted unless the selectbox had focus.02:49
+perlmonkey2this is going to require more beer to numb the pain :P02:49
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11396 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.6.30 development02:52
Mech422mornin all03:51
@tavistoMech422, aren't you in Cali?03:51
Mech422tavisto: yeah - but I'm a vampire :-)03:52
Mech422tavisto: how goes the DNS stuff ?  It looked pretty good this AM03:52
@tavistowow I guess so... I stay up reeeeally late too because I am a night owl.. but I don't get up at 5:52pm and say good morning03:52
@tavistoand you are PDT!03:52
Mech422well, I went to bed around 10am I think - so thats about 8 hours :-)03:53
@tavistoheh, you definitely have me beat there. Yes, the DoS stuff is supposedly over and was at 1am this morning... I thought I was up that late and we were still having issues03:53
@tavistoanyway, I'm off to the treadmill.. ttyl :)03:53
Mech422I was hitting webgui.org around 5 am and it seemed ok...03:53
Mech422ahh - mention my name - I could use some excercise03:53
Mech422ugg - us mil going with drupal ? yeesh03:54
Mech422thats just ugly03:55
+perlDreamerthey need to be saved, Mech42204:00
Mech422hey pd :-)04:01
+perlDreameryo, yer Mech-ness04:03
Mech422Da Mighty Mech ?04:03
Mech422Da Messy Mech ?04:03
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Mech422oh - I got my demo site re-assembled on the new wG beta and the wre release04:04
Mech422all on 64bit goodness04:04
Mech422next thing is : I want to have something like /news/2009/06/30/foo, /news/2009/06/30/bar, etc and on / have the 10 newest entries displayed (newest - show 1 para, other 9 - show 1 line 'teaser' text)04:06
Mech422I set /news up as a cs - but I'm at a loss as to how to get / to 'pull' the entries from /news04:07
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@tavistouse a Syndicated Content asset04:38
@tavistothen give the SC asset the URL of the RSS feed that the CS generates04:39
+perlDreameruse the StoryArchive instead04:42
Mech422err... Umm ?04:44
Mech422Don't use collab system ?04:45
Mech422ahh - use the SC as the front page with the RSS feed... gotcha04:45
Mech422pd: I'm how would storyarchive fit into this? would it replace the CS ?04:46
Mech422god I can't type :-P  I'm not sure how storyarchive would fit into this?  would it replace the CS or augment it like the SC ?04:47
Mech422I'm also not sure how I would go about changing templates so the first item shows more 'teaser' then later items 04:49
+perlDreamerMech422, that's built into the StoryTopic04:50
Mech422So StoryTopic is part of StoryArchive ?04:52
+perlDreamerthey're related04:54
+perlDreamerStoryTopic lets you pull stories from a StoryArchive by keyword04:54
@tavistoi dunno, my rule of thumb is never to use anything that perldreamer built04:56
+perlDreamerwords to live by, from brother tavisto04:56
+perlDreamerof course, I didn't build the matrix either...04:56
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@tavistowhich is why I use Drupal instead of WebGUI.. since Perldreamer has probably touched all of the code in webgui04:57
+perlDreamerso probably only things built by preaction and rizen are safe04:57
Mech422ok - I'll fart around with SC and the SA stuff04:57
* perlDreamer suggests less beans in the diet, Mech42204:57
Mech422tavisto: oh - I thought that was so you could get those phat mil. contracts04:57
@tavistoactually, I think someone should get banned for saying "i use drupal" or "i use joomla" in channel04:57
@tavistoyeah I did see that at the mil-oss.org site04:58
@tavistotopic of discussion... blah04:58
Mech422tavisto: nah - cross pollinization is good04:58
Mech422tavisto: know your enemy, etc etc04:58
@tavistogood idea, it's time for me to visit the joomla channel and I'll start asking about why I should use Joomla instead of WebGUI04:58
Mech422yeah - kinda odd they get a discussion... I would have thought one of the big java based systems maybe - but drupal ?04:58
@tavistosince people do that to us all the time04:58
@tavistoI wonder if it's the commercially supported drupal04:59
Mech422tavisto: good idea :-)  and check out the sites too... see how the lure people in, etc04:59
Mech422tavisto: for instance, typo3 used to just overwhelm you with a ton of unorganzied information04:59
@tavistoi had better not find a guy named "drupaldreamer" over there05:00
Mech422huge site, little value05:00
+perlDreamerI could take him05:00
@tavistowhat if perldreamer is actually a spy and has been taking all of our best ideas and putting them into drupal05:00
+perlDreamerno, I only sabotage the code to ruin the reputation05:01
+perlDreamerit's much easier that way05:01
@tavistoyeah good point, and you're good at it05:01
+perlDreamerwait til you see how the ProgressBar blows up05:01
@tavistonoooooooooo....don't get to 100%05:01
@tavistoit's like the bus in Speed getting to 5505:01
@tavistoall joking aside, how much work did it take to get the progressbar implemented?05:02
+perlDreamerit took 4 of us about 3 hours05:02
+perlDreamerpreaction had the core idea05:02
+perlDreamerI wrote the reusable API05:02
+perlDreamerand then JT rewrote it to be simpler05:03
+perlDreamernow it takes about 45 minutes to add the ProgressBar to a new operation05:03
+perlDreamerwith hand testing and i18n05:03
@tavistovery cool man... I love the fact that you guys can bolt that on to anything in WebGUI now too right?05:03
+perlDreamerright now it's used by the Rollback Version tag, delete asset, purge asset, paste asset, reorder asset and promote/demote asset05:04
@tavistook I'm kinda concerned why I'm hearing gun shots at 10pm when it's dark outside and not hunting season05:04
+perlDreamerthose are the Zope users05:04
Mech422pd: nah - zope users just roll back the transaction to cover their tracks05:07
topsubany bug known updating between  7.6.27 to 7.6.29?05:34
+perlDreamerwhat's happening, topsub?05:39
topsubnothing, i'm 2 behind just wanted to check before i did the upgrade05:51
topsublike last time i ran into something thats all05:51
Mech422wow - firefox is really not working well with this new demo site06:01
Mech422keeps losing all the css/styling on the page06:01
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Mech422pd: Story Archive seems to be part of what I want - it does the 'container' and add/edit story stuff... but how would I go about getting it to do the 'archive' part (eg 2009/06/30/blah)06:13
Mech422I _think_ what I want is just a workflow that changes the 'url' field of the stories after X amount of time?  but I'm not sure if thats the 'wG way' to do it ?06:14
+perlDreamerthat is what you want06:23
+perlDreamera custom story archiving workflow06:23
Mech422actually, I probably want that to begin with - sorta a 'permalink' ...06:25
Mech422but I don't want to have to change the SC or SA every month06:26
+perlDreameryou lost me there06:26
+perlDreamerit will automatically ignore archived posts, and you can derive the new URL "date phrase" from the date inside the story.06:26
Mech422well - I don't want to have to create a new 'folder' (/2009/06, /2009/07, etc) every month 06:26
+perlDreamerwe went through this before :)06:27
+perlDreamerwG URLs and hierarchy are separate06:27
+perlDreamerand the story archive makes folders for every day that stories are submitted06:27
+perlDreamergo into the Asset Manager and look06:27
Mech422ahh - I didn't see that06:27
+perlDreamerwell, you aren't supposed to ;)06:27
Mech422I did notice that story's don't ask for a URL when you add them06:27
+perlDreameryes, they work just like a post, or an event, or a wiki page in that way06:28
+perlDreamerthe url is derived from the title06:28
Mech422ahh - I have a june_30_2009 folder in my story archive06:29
+perlDreamerand tomorrow there will be july_1_2009 folder06:29
+perlDreamerif I remember correctly, the whole folder is archived at once06:29
+perlDreamerrather than story by story06:29
Mech422Oh! I _can_ navigate to a day directly!06:30
Mech422thats the part that was 'missing' - I can use teststory/storyarchive/june_30_200906:31
Mech422except all the css/themeing appears to be missing06:31
@tavistoOkay I'm beginning to get a little worried about Mech422 teaching a large session at the wuc06:32
@tavistoI hope he figures this stuff out so that he doesn't mess up the keynote06:32
+perlDreamerit's just a folder, Mech422.06:33
+perlDreamerit's not meant to be publicly viewable, kind of private for the Archive06:33
Mech422I think its a teminalogy thing... when I have 'archive' I think 'moved to permenant storage'...06:33
@tavistojust kidding btw.. Mech422, I'm not trying to piss off a vampire06:33
+perlDreameryeah, I mentioned that to rizen06:33
Mech422I think story Archive uses it more in the context of 'collection' ?06:34
+perlDreamerbut we couldn't find a better term06:34
+perlDreamerit didn't pass the spousal test06:34
+perlDreamerthe archive is the gateway and repository06:34
Mech422tavisto: eh - hang out some garlic, and you'll be fine :-)06:34
+perlDreamerthe topic is the aggregator06:34
+perlDreamerand story is the item of value06:34
@tavistoperlDreamer is hairy... like a werewolf... I wonder why you guys are getting along so well06:35
Mech422but teststory/storyarchive/june_30_2009/Story_1 doesn't work :-(06:35
Mech422so I will need to muck about with url field :-(06:35
Mech422in that case, its almost easier to use a cs and just set the url field to '/2009/06/30/Story_1' right from the begginging06:36
Mech422and skip the whole workflow thing ?06:36
+perlDreamerbut then you have to do all the lead story work and everything else by hand06:37
Mech422no, shouldn't the cs 'blog' view show most recent to oldest by default ?06:38
+perlDreamerremember that in the cs "blog" is just a template06:38
+perlDreamerpost ordering is a setting in the CS itself06:39
Mech422ahh - ok - well, I'd have to muck around with getting 'more' teaser on the first entry, and 'less' teaser text for older stories06:39
+perlDreameryeah, StoryTopic does that for you automatically06:39
Mech422but I think that would actually be simpler then writing a work flow ?06:40
+perlDreamerwhy not just RFE a request for the Story URL to include the date?06:40
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Mech422eh - I figured I broke it so I get to keep both halfs ?06:41
Mech422I suppose it is a fairly common use case06:41
Mech422if it was gonna be an RFE - I think having it accessible via an 'archive url' right from the start would be good - then it could be used as a permalink ?06:43
+perlDreamerwell, what you're asking for is to have the date put into the url by default06:43
+perlDreamerand it will always have the same URL, regardless of being archived or not06:44
+perlDreamerit won't change when it is archived, in other words06:44
Mech422the 'it won't change' part is the big part for us06:44
+perlDreamerso if the intention of the date is to make it a permalink, you don't need it06:45
+perlDreamerif it's for some other reason, then you might still need it06:45
Mech422the date part makes it easy for us to go back and see what happened on 1968/05/13/Mech_Is_Born06:45
Mech422we can go to /1968/05/13 and see all the news for that day06:46
+perlDreamerthat url won't exist in the system06:46
+perlDreamermarch_13_1968 will06:46
Mech422btw - why use full month names ? it looks a lil 'odd' ?06:47
Mech422or is it for i18n - everyone can interpret that format ?06:47
+perlDreamer(08:41:23 PM) perlDreamer: it's just a folder, Mech422.06:47
+perlDreamer(08:41:41 PM) perlDreamer: it's not meant to be publicly viewable, kind of private for the Archive06:47
Mech422LOL - i18n its unambigous sounds better :-P06:48
Mech422no mm/dd vs dd/mm issues06:48
+perlDreamerthat's true06:48
Mech422Hmm - storyTopic is dependent upon the 'keywords' field in the story...06:58
Mech422so we need to add a 'dummy' keyword to every story to get them to show up in the topic06:59
Mech422hmm - thats badly phrased07:00
+perlDreamerhave you tried putting no keyword in the topic to see what happens?07:00
Mech422yeah - nothing displays in the topic07:00
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Mech422being able to have seperate 'views' for each topic is cool - but we need to have a 'master' view of all storys too... umm - thats still not a good discription07:01
Mech422am I makeing _any_ sense at all ? :-P07:01
+perlDreamermaybe the StoryArchive other assets really don't do what you want, like I thought they would07:01
+perlDreamereither that, or you need to write more RFEs ;)07:02
Mech422Ah Ha!  we need a storyTopic that can do a straight reverse chronological listing of all stories!  thats a pretty good description07:02
+perlDreamersure, one that pulls all stories, regardless of keyword07:03
+perlDreamerwhich is kind of what the StoryArchive does07:03
+perlDreamerwithout the lead story template variables07:03
Mech422the keyword based listing is really cool for other stuff - like setting up 'deppartmetns' or 'areas of interest' .. .but we need the reverse chron. for the front page07:03
+perlDreamerthe design spec was for CNN-like news07:04
+perlDreamerwhich doesn't have that07:04
Mech422right - I was actually using plain StoryArchive before - I just added the topic when you mentioned it07:04
+perlDreamerStoryTopic does the lead story template variables, StoryArchive doesn't07:04
Mech422I had thought that chaing the story archive template in StoryArchive migth do this ?07:05
+perlDreamerno, those variables don't exist in the StoryArchive07:05
Mech422well phoeey07:05
Mech422dammit - I _want_ to use StoryArchive :-P07:05
Mech422looks like some slick code :-)07:05
* perlDreamer is biased07:06
@tavisto*tavisto still unhappy that PerlDreamer did not acknowledge his werewolf vs vampire joke*07:07
Mech422maybe I could tear apart the StoryTopic template and get it to grok story's with no keywords07:07
* perlDreamer intends to bite tavisto net time we meet07:07
+perlDreamerprepare to join the pack, brother07:07
@tavisto*tavisto shows his teeth* Sorry bro, I'm on the other team07:08
+perlDreameryou can be a hybrid lycan07:08
@tavistooh great... so I gotta buy a $15,000 battery after I'm midway through my life07:08
Mech422I take it underworld was big around the pb offices ?07:09
@tavistoson of ah.. this sucks07:09
@tavistoanything sci-fi, fantasy, etc... pretty much is.. Lots of geeks and nerds roaming around PB07:09
Mech422hmm - you can't limit a storyTopic to just 1 keyword or a specific group of keywords ?  so I can't have a 'sports' storyTopic and a 'tech' storyTopic ?07:11
Mech422tavisto: heh - my eq2 addiction is finally showing signs of petering off07:12
+perlDreamerif you have a story with keywords sports and tech, it would show up in both topics07:12
+perlDreamerotherwise, you only get stories with the topic's keyword in it07:12
@tavistoeq2 is still going?07:13
@tavistothat's like telling me you are still playing Dark Ages of Camelot online07:13
Mech422perlDreamer: umm - I can't find where to ...oh its on the metadata tab07:13
@tavistoThat's like telling me you are running WebGUI 4 right now07:13
+perlDreamerwhich means that if there's no keyword in the topic, you get all stories?07:13
+perlDreamerisn't that what you wanted?07:14
Mech422all stories _with_ a keyword07:14
Mech422tavisto: actually - eq1 is still going... and sony just announced expansions for both eq1 and eq07:14
Mech422err..eq1 and eq207:14
Mech422we could get around keywords just by forcing the clerk to input a dummy 'story' keyword for each story07:15
+perlDreamersure, or add it to your custom commit workflow07:15
+perlDreameror, change the edit form to hardcode it07:16
+perlDreamersince that's templatable, too07:16
Mech422ahh - changing the edit form would prolly be the path of least resistance07:16
+perlDreamerset the keywords to be hidden in the form and set to "mandatoryKeywordBecausePerlDreamerIsANazi"07:16
@tavistowow, you gotta be kidding me07:16
@tavistoalthough I think Ultima Online is still going somehow07:16
@tavistothat was and is still my favorite game. That's how Rizen and I met actually07:17
Mech422yeah - I think the ultima server code is out in the wild07:17
Mech422but eq is on its 10 year anniversary and eq2 is on its fifth I think07:17
@tavistooh yeah it's been for years. We ran our own server and that's really how Rizen and I met. We were both GMs on the server07:17
Mech422I'm looking forward to one called earthrise07:18
Mech422I'm getting pretty annoyed with class based games07:18
Mech422especially for crafting07:18
Mech422use based or point based seems the way to go07:19
@tavistoyeah I love MMORPGs and used to play, get burned out, then sell my accounts07:21
@tavistobut I just dont have the time. It's 12:21 right now and I'm sending email07:21
Mech422I'm like that with most stuff - compulsive about it for 6 months, then hang it up07:21
@tavistoIve been on the computer today since 10am, except for 45 minutes on a treadmill, changing some sprinklers in my yard, and going to get subway.  What a great day.07:21
Mech422that's why contracting was always so much fun - 6 months then off to a new challenge07:21
@tavistoyep, that's true.07:22
Mech422lol - thats a short day for me :-P07:22
Mech422but I have no life :-P07:22
Mech422my friends all moved out of silicon valley years ago07:22
Mech422I'm like the last hold out :-P07:23
@tavistoyeah they apparently didn't want to pay the outrageous taxes eh07:23
Mech422nah - they just couldn't find new jobs paying $125K+07:23
Mech422lots of people around here went from 90+ year to 50 year07:24
Mech422yeah - middle management of course07:24
Mech422but also techies07:24
Mech422lots of php/perl/python people07:24
Mech422.net and java seemed to stay pretty much the same though07:24
Mech422which is surprising considering how over payed java guys are07:24
@tavistoSo are you liking WebGUI as you learn more about it? And are you able to use it in more of your projects? Or do you still find Plone to be a better system for you?07:25
Mech422heh - some pretty subjective things there07:25
@tavistoI'm curious since you are fairly new and have been playing with WebGUI awhile07:25
Mech422the _biggest_ impression I get is that I'm the first 'new' webgui 'developer' in a long time07:25
Mech422there seems to be a big gap in between 'user docs' and 'god mode'...07:26
@tavistommmm... well atleast in IRC you are07:26
Mech422like everyone that works on webgui either is an end user, or already knows it inside and out07:26
@tavistoI actually talk to quite a few new peeps that download it and aren't active in the community.. but mod stuff to their own needs07:26
@tavistoof course... we only hear from people like that if they need support contracts, or want to purchase something. :)07:27
Mech422wow - I'm slacking then :-P07:27
@tavistonope, you have more of an interest in being active in the community... which is a great thing07:27
Mech422no I mean on learning webgui07:27
Mech422even with the time I spend working with it - I don't really feel I 'understand' it..07:28
Mech422but then again - it was the same with plone at first too07:28
Mech422thats just part of workign with a large system07:28
@tavistoyeah, I guess it is. I've been working with it since we started so I kinda pieced it together as we went07:29
@tavistobut I'm also not a dev07:29
Mech422its definately got a learning curve07:30
elninowegui has a different philosophy than anything eslse I've seen07:30
elninothat was *my* learning curve07:30
Mech422elnino: oh? in what way ?07:31
@tavistoelnino is a developer07:31
@tavistoI never knew it until one day when we started talking more in here07:31
Mech422heh - its the quiet ones ya gotta watch ;-P07:31
elninoI'm not sure how to respond.07:32
elninoI dont' develop for pb.07:32
Mech422I'm just curious as to what difference you noticed ?07:32
@tavistono, I'm saying in general though07:32
elninobut I have 15 years.07:32
elninophilosophy in gui, not in programming. Tho I'm really impressed with the programming once I got into that part.07:34
elninoand I really don't have many things to compare webgui to, I started with mambo, joomla, asp.net. I dont' even know where to start on the differences there.07:34
Mech422heh - having the buttons on the 'wrong' sides of the forms thru me at first... :-P07:35
elninothose are the only other cms's I'ved worked with07:35
Mech422I'll be interested to see how things go as I spend more time with it07:36
@tavistoThat's because they were on the 'right' side07:36
Mech422yeah - having them so you don't have to scroll is more logical - though not what you generally encounter07:36
Mech422I guess every large system has a 'mindset' you have to get into...07:38
+perlDreamervery true07:38
Mech422zope/plone are obvious about it - "the zen of zope" "zope zen" etc etc07:38
Mech422but its just a fact of life 07:39
+perlDreamerMech422, just think like a smiling, purple octopus07:40
+perlDreamerit'll all be fine07:40
+perlDreameras long as Cthulu doesn't get jealous that we're tripping on his vibe07:40
Mech422well my next tasks will be learning how to grab content from other 'parts' of the site07:40
+perlDreamershortcuts and snippets07:41
Mech422like reaching into a storyArchive and listing its contents or pulling blog entries07:41
Mech422ahh -but how do you actually reference the cotent and 'grab' it ?  07:41
Mech422$this->somecontent.getValue() ?07:41
+perlDreamerare you talking codewise, or template wise?07:41
Mech422prolly start in templates - should be simpler right ?07:42
+perlDreamersimpler, but more limited07:42
+perlDreamerbecause you're only given a particular set of variables07:43
+perlDreamerand no programming control07:43
+perlDreameryou could switch to Template::Toolkit07:43
Mech422no looping ?  say I wanted to make my top ten list ?07:43
+perlDreamerif you want to make it out of things that you are given, that's fine07:44
Mech422I can't setup a 10 item loop in a template ?07:44
+perlDreamersure you can07:44
+perlDreamerbut only if that template has a loop07:44
Mech422umm - aren't I creating the template?  can't I just give it a loop?07:44
+perlDreamerthe template can work on a given set of variables07:44
+perlDreamerfor example, go to your dev site, and turn on admin mode07:45
Mech422already on :-)07:45
+perlDreamerfrom the admin console, click on the Life Saver icon for Help07:45
+perlDreamerFind the Article template07:45
+perlDreamerand click on that link07:45
+perlDreamerthat is a complete list of all template variables that an article template can use07:45
Mech422ok - but you said 'no programming control' - I took that to mean 'no looping, no conditionals' ?07:46
+perlDreamerno, the templating engine supports both of those07:47
+perlDreamerbut, you cannot give the template an object and allow the template designer to call arbitrary methods on it07:47
Mech422ahh - ok, thats pretty common07:47
+perlDreameryou can do that in Template::Toolkit07:48
+perlDreamerbut WebGUI still won't pass you the objects07:48
+perlDreamerjust the same regular old variables in TT syntax instead of HTML::Template syntax07:48
Mech422yeah - plone has the concept of 'restricted' methods 07:49
Mech422you have to 'flag' methods as web accessible07:49
Mech422(believe it or not - a method with no comment can't be hit from the web :-P )07:50
+perlDreamerwe have that in webgui as well, although a little differently07:50
+perlDreameronly subs that start with www_ are allowed to be called by the content engine07:50
Mech422but how do you 'traverse' the site to find 'objects' (atoms? pages?)07:51
+perlDreamerfrom the template, or from the content engine?07:51
Mech422ahh - that makes more sense then the stupid comment thing - that bit me many a time07:51
Mech422from a template or snippet ?07:51
+perlDreamerfrom the template, you are in a small, isolated world07:51
Mech422say I wanted a 'steves recent blogs' box that listed my last 5 blog entries - that I could put all over my site (ie in different locations)07:52
+perlDreamerin that case, I would make a shortcut of the blog with a custom template that only listed 5 things07:52
+perlDreameror, I'd use a syndicated content asset07:52
+perlDreamerif you want it all over your site, then you mark it as a package so that it can be deployed multiple times on the site07:53
+perlDreamerso it's done at the Asset level, not at the template level07:53
Mech422and what if it wasn't a 'static' resource - like say a 'today in history' box07:53
Mech422where you had a folder for every day of the year with fun facts about that day07:54
+perlDreamerand the folder is full of snippets?07:54
Mech422err..ok... 07:54
Mech422snippets text whatever07:54
+perlDreamerand you want to pull one snippet out and display it on some page?07:55
Mech422how do you dynamically get a reference to a particular day (folder)  and list its contents ?07:55
+perlDreamerAssetProxy macro07:55
+perlDreameruse the Date macro to build the date part of the URL07:55
@tavistothere is a ^RandomAssetProxy macro too if you want to pull random assets07:55
+perlDreameror, if it was a SQL table, you could use the SQL macro to do it07:55
@tavistoyou can also use the advertising engine to serve up random images if that's what you want to do07:56
Mech422I think AssetProxy would be the next thing for me to read up on then..07:56
+perlDreamerMech422, this is what I recommend07:56
+perlDreamerRead the WebGUI primer from top to bottom, twice07:56
+perlDreamerthen read the whole Macro book07:56
Mech422though I think I'm gonna have a lot of 'unlearning' to do07:57
+perlDreamerAre you afraid?07:57
+perlDreamerYou may be too old to undergo the training07:57
+perlDreamerI have been teaching WebGUI newbies for 300 years07:57
Mech422afraid - no ?  looking forward to it ? no ? :-P07:57
@tavisto318 years.. and you are getting old and forgetful now07:57
Mech422http://www.plyonshq.com   <- this is the sort of thing I look forward too...07:57
+perlDreamerSorry, 'www.plyonshq.com' does not exist or is not available.07:58
Mech422you might want to take a look - docs are decent but not great ...  the core is 'small is beautiful' :-)07:58
Mech422crap - sorry its http://www.pylonshq.com07:58
Mech422mimimalist web framework with numerous interchangable parts07:59
@tavistoooooh nice08:00
@tavistoHao just posted to staff blog08:00
Mech422no where near the functionality the wG offers - its more for web apps then cms08:00
@tavistotalking about the possibility of 1-page checkout in wG ecommerce08:00
@tavistoperldreamer, you and I have been interested in that since the beginning08:01
@tavistotopsub did that awhile back on his own and it was pretty slick08:01
elninowhat is http://www.cmsinfo.org supposed to be about?  there is a blog aobut webgui, but it's really old.08:01
@tavistolooks like they covered WebGUI announcements for awhile08:03
+perlDreamerthen we changed the RSS url out from underneath them08:04
Mech422is Aegir - that became the Asgard cms didn't it ? 08:04
@tavistonight all08:04
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Mech422nite tavis!08:04
Mech422lol -midguard - I haven't looked at htat in years...08:05
Mech422pd: anyway - seems like I'll have a bunch of 'unlearning' to do - in plone you 'traverse' (navigate) to the object, and in wG it seems you bring the object to you (via shortcuts,proxy,etc)08:06
+perlDreamerthat's correct08:07
elninodoes anyone know ehab?08:09
+perlDreamerhe watches TBB, and might monitor the dev forum08:10
elninowhat's TBB08:10
+perlDreamerThe Black Blog08:10
elninodoes he log in here?08:10
+perlDreamernever seen him in here08:10
Mech422Should a storyArchive be inside a pageLayout ?08:11
elninoi'm sleepy. I'm going... fast...08:11
Mech422bye elnino!08:11
+perlDreamer'night, elnino08:11
+perlDreamerMech422, it can part of a page layout if you wish08:11
+perlDreameror it can work standalone08:12
Mech422I'm just trying to figure out why my css and stuff keeps dissappearing08:12
Mech422but its doing it on the admin side too - and I didn't touch any of those templates08:12
Mech422its happening on both ff and opera08:12
Mech422so prolly not a browser cache thing08:12
+perlDreamerprobably not08:12
+perlDreameris IE doing it, too?08:13
Mech422wtf? uggh - I hate lil annoyances :-P08:13
Mech422umm - lemme check08:13
Mech422blah - my keyboard is hosed in windows08:15
Mech422vista does NOT seem to like this ms usb keyboard :-P lemme check on the other machine08:15
Mech422ok - yes, it does it in IE to08:18
+perlDreamerwhat do you do to make the CSS and stuff disappear?08:18
Mech422its prolly something to do with giving the site a name but using numeric ip to access it08:19
Mech422editing a story in the story archive , click 'save', then click 'back to site' and you get back to the storyarchive with missing css08:19
Mech422but it happens all over the place, so I'm assuming its a stupid configuration thing on my side08:19
+perlDreameris your story archive inside of a page layout?08:19
Mech422yeah - thats why I asked08:20
+perlDreamerokay, that sounds like an asset focus issue08:20
+perlDreamertry this08:20
+perlDreamergo back to your dev site's home page08:20
+perlDreamerthen go to the page with the archive on it08:20
+perlDreamerthen click on add page08:20
+perlDreamerand watch the url08:20
+perlDreamerthe URL is different, you're actually looking at a different "page"08:21
+perlDreamerthat page is made by the _archive_, not the page layout08:21
+perlDreamerso if the archive and layout have different styles, then they will look different08:21
Mech422add page ? you mean add page layout or add story ?08:22
+perlDreameradd story, sorry08:22
Mech422ok - with you so far08:23
Mech422buth when I go 'back to site' - shouldn't I get my stuff back ?08:23
+perlDreameronly if it takes you back to the layout instead of the archive08:23
* perlDreamer suspects it's taking you to the archive08:23
Mech422your right08:23
Mech422ok - so thats that08:23
+perlDreamerto fix that, edit the style and set it to use the same style template as the page layout08:24
Mech422different - but still no styling08:26
+perlDreamerdo you have CSS in the page layout template itself?08:26
+perlDreamerbecause the Archive would not get that unless it was rendered inside the layout08:27
Mech422its in the source08:27
Mech422lemme try firebug - its prolly just not getting the css due to name vs. ip crap - document source has css file08:27
Mech422(references css file rather)08:27
Mech422actually, it says it got the css file08:31
Mech422I'll worry about that later - its gotta be something silly as it works 08:32
Mech422as it works most of the time08:33
Mech422huh - the front page gives 302 'found' messagges but when its 'broken' the css comes back as 304 'not changed' ?08:34
Mech422not sure if thats significant08:34
Mech422ok - gonna haul my lazy butt out for a walk..08:40
Mech422g'nite pd!08:40
+perlDreamerlater, Mech42208:42
* perlDreamer is heading to bed08:42
+perlDreamermy laptop is so hot I can smell solder08:43
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+bartjolit's admin!16:17
mech422Umm - I thought I was Steve! ? :-P16:21
mech422And how is Mr. bartjol this fine morning ?16:21
+bartjolwell, mainly warm16:22
mech422oh?  warm as in nice weather, or warm as in building a/c broke and your surrounded by heat generating pc's ?16:22
+bartjolmainly nice weather16:23
+bartjolso that's ok16:23
mech422ahh yes, much nicer then the too many pc's thing :-)16:24
mech422I'm getting rather annoyed, as something seems to be slightly off with my new vista64 based desktop16:24
+bartjolonly 6 in this room16:24
mech422I'm running debian in VirtualBox on it, and its sorta 'wierd'... like now, kde isn't showing desktop previews correctly16:25
+bartjoland hoping that ff3.5 really is better16:25
mech422ohh - donna got it yesterday - she seemed to like it ok - no complaints but no jumping for joy either16:26
+bartjolwell, I had problems lately with 3.0.11 crashing16:26
+bartjoland eating 500+ MB of mem16:26
mech422I'm thinking it might be the seagate 1.5TB drives16:27
mech422I read there was a lot of problems with the early versions - and the drive the vm image is on sorta 'clicks' on a regular basis - like the head is stepping all the way in/out16:27
+bartjolwell, I can't help you on this one16:29
mech422heh - I'm looking at the configuration... I seem to recall there was a check box somewhere that controled the desktop preview thingy in the pager16:30
mech422ahh - somehow 'window thumbnails' got turned off...16:34
mech422bartjol: do you happen to do much js ?16:35
+bartjolbut I can always try16:36
mech422heh - I thought I might read up on it a bit - I was just curious if you had any recommendations for toolkits..16:36
mech422wG uses YUI, plone uses JQuery, then there's dojo, and prototype...16:37
+bartjolwell http://www.ja-sig.org/wiki/display/UP3/Javascript+Toolkit+Comparison16:37
mech422Oh very cool!16:37
mech422thanks :-)16:37
+bartjolgoogle is my friend16:38
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mech422heh - forgot about mochikit16:38
SquOnkHi everyone16:38
SquOnkUpdated 7.6.29 packages for Debian in my repo.16:39
SquOnkHopefully, the 7.6.30 package will have automatic database maintenance.16:39
+perlmonkey2This is incredible.  When I load an admin page I'm working on in FF3.5b4, I can't start up firebug and none of my FF menu bars are clickable.17:03
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+perlmonkey2Me thinks something is rotten in the state of Denmark17:07
+perlmonkey2and by Denmark I mean Firefox.17:07
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mech422Hmm - MS is supporting jquery ? didn't know that17:14
mech422crud konqui crashed17:14
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@tavistoso mech422, have you mastered WebGUI in the last 6-8 hours?17:23
* SquOnk is teaching one of his minions how to create a WebGUI style17:25
SquOnkWe're deploying WebGUI for the Venezuelan Ministry of Economy and Finances.17:26
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SquOnkOnce it's online, we'll probably get permission to list it in webgui.org17:26
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+bartjolaaah , minions roasted with garlic17:36
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+bartjolperlmonkey2: what is wrong with ff today17:45
+bartjolI find it rather refreshing after 3.0.1117:45
+bartjoland firebug works ok for me17:47
+bartjolmaybe I have a superior OS originating from the Redmond area17:48
+perlmonkey2bartjol: no idea.  The problem was a simple admin panel screen with a select list.  Yesterday I thought the selectList lib was broken when the default item wasn't being selected.  Turns out Firefox just wasn't highlighting it.  That magically resolved itself after several FF restarts.17:56
daviddelikatholy cow, firefox footprint doubled...!!!17:57
+perlmonkey2Then today it was doing the same thing only Firebug wouldn't start and the menu bar was unresponsive (although I could still click on links and use the web pages and tabs).17:57
+perlmonkey2But after killing it 5 or so times it started working again.  17:57
@Haargwhat version of firebug?17:57
+bartjolthe beta17:57
+perlmonkey2and I'm on FF3.5b417:58
+perlmonkey2If this keeps up I'll install a temporary local of the new release.  But I like to stay in tune with the repo.17:58
+bartjolah the morning ritual of restarting a browser 5 times with a cup of coffee17:59
+perlmonkey2hah, if only.  More like restart it, click on page, look at logs, try to get firebug to do more than load unactivated panels.  'killall firefox' repeat.17:59
+bartjolwhat kinnd of os are you running>18:00
+perlmonkey2starting to lose faith in Gecko and starting to get mighty curious about Webkit.18:01
+perlmonkey2Fedora 1118:01
+bartjolno one is running that here18:01
+perlmonkey2Which otherwise has been a dream.  Every issue I've ever had with Linux on this laptop has been resolved with things looking sharp and behaving beautifully.18:01
@Haargsounds like you problems are more firebug related than gecko18:01
+perlmonkey2Haarg: even with the menu bar becoming unresponsive?18:02
+perlmonkey2next time it repeats I'll disable firebug and see if that resolves it.18:02
@Haargfrom what i've heard firefox works significantly worse on linux though18:02
@Haargthan either windows or mac18:02
+perlmonkey2Haarg: no idea.  I used Opera on Mac and haven't used windows in...well, half a decade.18:03
daviddelikatso, I'm reading all this about ff3.5; I go and upgrade, before upgrade I have firefox at 35M RAM after I upgrade its at 101M!  is this supposed to be better?18:03
+perlmonkey2bartjol what do people run there?  Windows and Ubuntu?18:04
+bartjoland some apple like stuff18:04
+bartjolnot sure about ubuntu18:04
+bartjoloh, yeah, we have that18:04
+perlmonkey2daviddelikat: I've never seen 35MB level usage.  I've always been somewhere around 100MB with FF.18:05
+bartjoldaviddelikat: for me it went down from 500 MB to 240 MB18:05
daviddelikatwow! thats impressive18:05
+bartjolbut I use a lot of tabs18:05
daviddelikatI wonder what I'm doing ...18:05
+bartjolwell I think 400 was average18:05
daviddelikatI use tabs for ~everything~18:05
+bartjolat 500 it began to crash18:06
daviddelikatbut I've got the same 4 tabs now that I had befpre I started...18:06
+perlmonkey2bartjol oh, wish me luck.  You asked about what I used which made me remember that compiz used to lock up my onboard video card.  So I just now started it for the first time in years.  Here's to hoping I can get flashy wizbang without annoying lockups :D18:06
+bartjolmaybe a higher base amount, but less per tab18:06
daviddelikatI guess I'm not done looking, I'll have to tryt leaving some JS runnign over night and see what happens18:06
+bartjolI wish you luck perlmonkey218:06
+perlmonkey2bartjol you are a good fellow18:07
+bartjoldon't stick out your tongue at me! ;)18:07
@tavistobartjol, I have a picture of gooey on his own boat18:09
@tavistoa very large sailboat (for him)18:09
@tavistoI'll let you know once I put it in the gooey on the go gallery18:09
+bartjoltavisto: ah, cool, more gooeys on boats18:11
+bartjolperlmonkey2: did it work?18:12
+perlmonkey2bartjol still here without lockups enjoying my compiz wizbang18:15
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+perlmonkey2bartjol I mean not sure whom bartjol is18:17
+perlmonkey2hmm, not sure why I keep getting lower case b's18:17
+bartjolI am me18:18
+perlmonkey2Bartjol my tab complete keeps using the lower case.18:18
+perlmonkey2well that is weird, the user list only shows a single Bartjol but tab complete thinks there are two.18:18
+bartjolI am the good part of the twin18:19
* perlmonkey2 is having many strange technical difficulties today, perhaps he should embrace ludditism.18:19
-!- bartjol is now known as BartJol18:20
+BartJoland now?18:20
+perlmonkey2BartJol: ah, there we go18:21
+perlmonkey2on a single BartJol for my autocomplete :)18:22
+BartJolsomething strange happened to my nick18:22
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mech422ahh! its not my computer18:47
mech422jqueryvsmootools.com crashes konqui!18:47
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mech422heh - thought I had bad disk or bad mem for a bit there18:48
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@tavistoit's the koolaid that you spilled on your laptop last week19:06
mech422tavisto: hehe - att least I didn't drink da kool-aid *ba* *dum* *bum*19:11
@tavistowait.. at&t?19:11
@tavistoare you calling me out for getting the new iPhone 3GS 32GB Black superphone?19:12
@preactionDA SUPAPHONE!19:12
@tavisto*tavisto draws his weapon*19:12
mech422actually, I wonder how many tech people use the term 'drink the kool aid' and are too young to know where it comes from ?19:12
@tavistolet's get him preaction!19:12
mech422iphone? your joking right ?19:12
@preactionit was ruby ridge, right?19:12
@tavistowell I thought it makes reference to being in a cult.. Dave Ramsey also says it all the time19:12
@tavistoaha it is19:13
mech422jonestown - mass suicide19:13
@preactionthe koolaide was laced with cyanide or arsenic or something19:13
mech422women and children included19:13
@tavistoexcept the founder didnt drink right?19:13
+perlmonkey2don't forget the armed thugs shooting people who backed out.19:13
mech422rather macrabre when you think about how its used now19:13
@preactionit was cherry-flavored, if i remember ;)19:13
mech422anyway - on to cheerier stuff like iphone bashing :-)19:13
@tavistopreaction is immune to cyanide so he's still doing pretty good after drinking it... except for those blackouts19:13
mech422actualy, I hear the iphone is great as long as you don't need to make phone calls .... :-P19:14
@tavistothe iPhone is the alpha and omega of mainstream phone technology19:14
@tavistoI have 4-5 bars in most places around me19:14
+perlmonkey2*ahem* Android.19:14
mech422perlmonkey2: yeah - my buddy has a g1 and it sounds awesome19:14
mech422too bad the new android htc handset is like $650 unlocked :-(19:15
@tavistoActually, I will admit that the Samsung Jet definitely w00ps all over the petty iPhone, Palm, Android debates19:15
@tavisto800mhz chip, 2GB of onboard ram, and an organic LED display that requires no backlighting and 66% less power usage19:15
mech422samsung jet ? *gotta google*19:15
@tavistodo it right now... it's amazing19:15
@tavistoI knew they were using OLED in TVs now.. But not on a cell19:15
+perlmonkey2mech422: yep, I loves my G1.  looooves it.19:17
+perlmonkey2mech422: the new HTC is hardly an improvement on the G1.  I really dig physical keyboards.19:17
mech422perlmonkey2: you has one ? bastich :-P   I just got my BB last year so I'm not trading in for a while19:17
+perlmonkey2espeically a nice largish one like the G1's.19:17
mech422yeah - my fingers are too fat for the BB keyboard19:18
+perlmonkey2I can type about 20WPM on the G1, which when I'm in a terminal means I can *almost* code.19:18
mech422but it does a good job with _displaying_ stuff - emails, web pages, word docs - all are pretty well done19:18
+perlmonkey2but certainly fine for sysadmin work.19:18
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mech422gah - the ssh client for my BB is lame19:19
+perlmonkey2and the SDK with Eclipse is just tops.  Best I've used for hardware dev'ing.19:19
mech422it's a free one that switches to an input box when you enter commands19:19
+perlmonkey2mech422: there are tons of term apps for Android, but connectbot is great.  Supports PKI which is the only way I allow in to my servers.19:19
mech422supposedly the commercial one is better, but I don't do enough ssh'ing on the phone to spend $$19:20
mech422let me check out this samsung thingy...19:20
mech422jet.samsungmobile.com is fuxored19:22
+perlmonkey2tavisto: You have the Kindle App yet.  That *almost* got me to buy an iphone.19:23
mech422ok - what good is a google cache that doesn't come up when the real site is down ?19:24
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mech422tv out on a cell phone ?? 19:28
@tavistonope, don't read enough right now perlMonkey219:38
@tavistobut I fly a ton and am very happy with iTunes and the apps available. That really sells the phone for me.. And the fact that PB is pure mac based :)19:38
@tavistoI should say the content available on iTunes (movies, tv shows, music, etc...)19:39
@tavistoI was a diehard blackberry user until one day I was on a plane going to LA and I am sitting there bored and I see a teenage punk with an iPhone watching movies... and I'm like... this blackberry is worthless except for sending email19:40
@preactiondont' forget games!19:41
@tavistobut of course... preaction... always completing my sentences19:42
@tavistoand that's why I think preaction is19:42
mech422umm - and for making phone calls ?19:42
mech422I mean, it _is_ a phone19:42
mech422or not, in the iphone case19:43
@preactioni didn't want an iphone until my friends got one and kept playing games and fun applications19:43
* mech422 ducks19:43
@preactionpfft, we're BEYOND phones now19:43
@preactionthis is a Phone++19:43
@tavistoI'm on it all day long.. no problems with connectivity for me.. I hear San Fran is still rough19:43
@preactionwe've evolved past the need for phones19:43
mech422ROFL - my phone is so cool, it won't even _talk_ to a voice network :-P19:43
@tavistobut you can pick 1000 areas where verizon, or sprint sux too19:43
@tavistothis whole "verizon better than at&t" is a joke because Verizon can say that all day..... since they don't have the 7 million iPhone datamongers on their network eating up the data19:44
@tavistountil they have that... and can show their network is better... it's just bs19:44
mech422funny - my client in LA claims his iphone drops so many calls he has to carry his old (tmobile?) phone too19:44
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@tavisto65% of mobile data traffic on the web is from iPhone users. That's incredible!19:44
+perlmonkey2I had no problems at all with TMobile/G1 in San Fran or San Jose.19:45
+perlmonkey23g everywhere.19:45
@tavistomech422 I have friends that say that too. Mostly on the 3G phone version19:45
mech422not really - 'mobile data traffic' - thats what - iphone, treos (sooo last year :-P), bb's (all biz, no video here!), and android ?19:45
@tavistoI think that 3G phone had major hardware issues.. Although the original iPhone (which Rizen and I had) never had any major problems. Of course.. we also didn't have the 3G interference19:46
+perlmonkey2and who talks on a phone anymore except to their grandparents.  It's either text or IM or social apps for communicating.19:46
mech422yeah - he's had his awhile, so it's not the latest and greatest iphone19:46
@tavistoI think the 3G version was junk and that's why I didn't upgrade. Especially since I live in Kalamazoo, MI and we don't have 3G yet... *tavisto shakes his head in frustration*19:47
mech422perlmonkey2: yeah - I can't believe people actually like SMS... typing on those stupid lil keyboards19:47
+perlmonkey2mech422: my G1 has a nice big fat keyboard.  But even on a small numeral pad, texting takes a few seconds to send a message when calling takes minutes and social formalities to complete the message.19:48
mech422LOL - we just got a palm pre flyer in the mail - talk about timing :-P19:48
mech422perlmonkey2: thats the second time I've heard the 'talking takes too long' - you guys must all be too polite... speech is still the highest 'bandwidth' medium the phones offer19:49
mech422I can't imagine trying to 'say' anything remotely complex via SMS19:49
+perlmonkey2mech422: that is highly doubtful.  what is an SMS, 512Bytes?  19:50
@preactionless, 21219:50
mech422how fast can you diagnose a problem via sms and how fast via voice ?19:50
mech422voice (speech) imparts the most info in the shortest time - hence highest bandwidth19:50
+perlmonkey2mech422: say you want to give someong a timing or location update or just some status update.  5 seconds of typing on a keyboard and you're done.  You'd still be waiting for the phone to *start* ringing for voice.19:50
mech422if all you do is trivia...19:51
mech422but I don't do a lot of that - I want to _communicate_19:51
mech422exchange ideas -not just 'send' but 'recieve'19:51
mech422plus tmobile can 'lose' SMS messages for hours when the network is busy19:51
+perlmonkey2well if I'm discussing projects or design issues, I prefer IM.  It is logged and you have time to compose your thoughts correctly when responding.19:51
mech422perlmonkey2: I could see that over SMS - but you prefer to type rather then say use skype ?19:52
+perlmonkey2mech422: lose sms messages?  is that when you don't have a data connection, cause the true sms protocol of a voice sideband is almost never used anymore.19:52
+perlmonkey2mech422: absolutey19:53
+perlmonkey2I'd prefer some computer IM discussion for project discussions.19:53
+perlmonkey2voice isn't logged and you get a situation where "so and so said X and it didn't happen like my expectations said so.".19:53
+perlmonkey2too much room for misinterpretation and misundersstandings.19:54
mech422perlmonkey2: yeah - I don't generally have to 'prove' who said what..  and I find speech faster and more expressive19:54
mech422perlmonkey2: well, text messages have no guarantee on delivery time - strictly 'best effort' - I've recieved a few recently that where hours in transit19:55
+perlmonkey2speechis faster and more expressive.  I just want everything logged :D19:55
mech422perlmonkey2: tape recorder ?19:55
+perlmonkey2yeah, double check their location for wire tapping laws :P19:55
+perlmonkey2but really, if a voice conversation is warranted, I make the effort for a face-to-face.19:56
mech422just say "I'm recording this cuz your boss is cheap and has a short memory and loves scope creep " :-P19:56
+perlmonkey2Plus there's hardly a place in the country where I don't have friends, so I don't mind traveling to see customers.19:57
mech422yeah - face to face seems to have fallen out of favor in this digital world :-)19:57
+perlmonkey2nothing more fun than sitting together in a conference room with a pot of coffee and scraps of paper and brain storming for hours.  Love that.19:58
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mech422Awesome idea!20:05
mech422put that aethism to work!20:06
mech422and sucker some rich holier-then-thou's while yer at it !20:06
mech422oh sorry - wrong channel20:09
mech422I was referencing this: http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/20:09
mech422perlmonkey2: yeah - and don't forget the white board20:11
mech42290% fumes, and the 10% ink always ends up on your hand or shirt :-P20:11
daviddelikatmech422: that is hilarious!  kind of like the cryogenics of the 70's20:13
daviddelikatperhaps we can make a new service for suckers...  we promise that if you keep sending up money we will see to it that whatever happens we will do somehting for you someday...20:15
mech422daviddelikat: maybe water your plants after the rapture ?20:16
daviddelikatsounds good...20:16
mech422daviddelikat: collect your mail ?20:16
daviddelikatcancel your magazine subscriptions20:16
mech422LOL 20:16
daviddelikatsell your house20:16
mech422I wonder if they actually have any clients ?20:17
daviddelikati dont know but hteir order form doesn't match their front page20:17
mech422I wonder the same thing whenever I get a pyramid scheme or nigerian prince email...20:17
daviddelikatorder form says 1 pet for $110 front page says 220:17
daviddelikathey I'm a close friend of all those nigerian princes20:18
mech4222 for 1 sale ? maybe the rapture is getting close- going out of biz sale20:18
mech422ya gotta wonder, I mean if no one sent them money - they'd stop spamming, wouldn't they ?20:18
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daviddelikati imagine so ... speaks volumes about americans20:19
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mech422Hmm... I wonder where Synq is hiding20:39
+perlmonkey2Their employees are assured to be around for they have violated Mark 3:29.  From the FAQ.20:41
mech422preaction: I was tinkering with my new build stuff the other day and noticed xpdf gets patches applied...20:41
mech422so maybe each package should get a subdir for the 'recipe' and patches etc ?20:42
mech422so instead of recipes/xpdf.sh we'd have recipes/xpdf/build.sh and recipes/xpdf/patches/foo1.patch ?20:43
@preactionyou might look at how FreeBSD's ports system does it20:43
@preactionthey do this same thing, `make` downloads the source, applies patches, and then builds20:44
mech422yeah - T2 does it all in shell20:44
mech422but I didn't think rizen would be interested in something to 'complicated' ?20:45
mech422personally - I like a single manifest file with subdirs for each package to hold the 'recipe', patches, custom jpegs or whatever20:46
mech422i think it's a good compromise between maintainability, functionality, and complexity20:47
mech422but there's not really much point in doing it if no-one else likes/uses it 20:49
ckotilAny idea why a .graffile file will not upload via the filepile asset?20:49
@preaction.graffle isn't a file, it's a directory20:49
ckotilah, that explains it.20:50
@preactionit's one of OS X's bundle things (like .app)20:50
ckotilthanks, ill have my user zip it up in that case20:50
mech422osx has a .graffle ?  heh - cute :-)20:50
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@Haargos x has bundles that are really directories, but get treated like files by Finder21:08
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+perlmonkey2ut oh.....July 4th, 20+ family members decend upon my small town.  I'm the only person in the area with a pool and no neighbors within gunshot distance.  Looks like my day might be ending early.22:17
@tavistothen you will fight in the shade....22:18
+perlmonkey2tavisto: If loving that movie is wrong, I don't want to be right.22:19
@tavistothat's right.22:19
@tavistoamen brotha22:19
@tavistomy mind is telling me noooooooooo......... but my body....... my boddddddy....22:20
+perlmonkey2had to youtube that video :D22:20
@tavistothe R Kelly one?22:21
@tavistodid you see this?  http://www.plainblack.com/news/webgui-8-goes-php22:23
+perlmonkey2tavisto: you sir are an EVIL man22:24
@tavistowait for it22:24
@tavistobut with style perlmonkey2!22:24
@tavistoit's the narrated version22:24
+perlmonkey2yeah, you got me several times in the past with that version22:24
+perlmonkey2yet I STILL click that link22:24
@tavistofeel free to give the URL out to your friends22:24
@tavistoit's the legit plainblack address that gets ya22:25
@tavistoI'll have to mix it up from now on22:25
+perlmonkey2hah, #drupal just banned me for that link.  Guess they didn't see the humor.22:47
+perlmonkey2Such sweet community on those php sites.  Abundant sense of humor.22:48
@tavistonice work22:51
@tavistodid they ban you because it was a rickroll22:51
@tavistoor did they ban you because it was a webgui link22:51
@preactionyou'd be hostile too if you had to work with PHP all day22:51
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kathykwhat?  no perldreamer?23:06
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@preactionhuh, that's weird23:06
dreamersgirlhe's probably still galavanting around town with the boys...23:07
dreamersgirlthere's a special Disney train in town just for today23:08
@preactionooh nice23:08
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SquOnk7.6.29 packages just hit Debian Sid! Ha!23:19
SquOnk.seen  bartjol23:19
* SquOnk is listening to: Genesis - Genesis - Taking It All Too Hard - (0:12/3:58)23:19
SquOnkUps, sorry.23:19
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CIA-44WebGUI: translation * r11397 /translations/German/German/Asset_MatrixListing.pm: Update from translation server00:53
CIA-44WebGUI: translation * r11398 /translations/German/German/Asset_MatrixListing.pm: Update from translation server00:53
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CIA-44WebGUI: translation * r11399 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Navigation.pm Asset_Thingy.pm): Update from translation server01:10
CIA-44WebGUI: translation * r11400 /translations/German/German/ (WebGUI.pm FilePump.pm): Update from translation server01:10
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CIA-44WebGUI: translation * r11401 /translations/German/German/FilePump.pm: Update from translation server01:23
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11402 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Fix more iCal creation and reading bugs. With tests.01:38
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11403 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Forward porting fixes for iCal escaping and unescaping, and line wrapping.01:38
CIA-44WebGUI: translation * r11404 /translations/German/German/Asset.pm: Update from translation server01:38
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mech422man - my sleep schedule is even more whacked then normal :-(06:24
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@tavistowhat's up party people?07:26
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mech422tavisto: party canceled on account of sleepy :-P07:54
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mech422tavisto: it was really wierd - I was really tired last night so I went to bed around 2-3 am (really early for me..)08:02
mech422I slept for 1 hour, then _bounced_ out of bed wide awake... my butt has been dragging ever since08:03
@tavistoyep I bet it is08:11
@tavistoI don't stay up all night anymore.. but if I don't get like 5-6 hours of sleep in a night I am dragging the next night08:11
@preactionif i don't get 10 hours of sleep i feel groggy all day08:12
@preactionmore than 3 days in a row of that and i pass out08:12
@tavistoWhen I was in Orlando I ended up staying up all night and flying out at 6am... By 3pm the next day I could not physically stay awake even for 5 minutes 08:12
@tavistogranted, I was up for 29 hours straight... the plane ride home was brutal08:12
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mech422my mom just came back from england - she was saying Logan airport in boston got closed yesterday (today?) 08:52
mech422some sort of electrical storm - they got redirected to connecticut, but couldn't dis-embark as there wasn't any customs officers to check passports08:52
mech422they finally got into logan like 6 hours later :-/08:53
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+MrHairgreasejavascript question.16:40
+MrHairgreasesee: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m4ba4c7f16:40
+MrHairgreaseWhat I'm trying to do is to let the DefinitieTool constructor creat object that more or less inherit from DynamicDropper16:41
+MrHairgreasebut I don't want to rewrite the constructor 16:42
+MrHairgreaseany idea's how I should do that16:42
+MrHairgreasesee lines 39 - 4116:42
daviddelikatI've seen this sort of thing...16:42
daviddelikatI think that JS has a system that calls a SUPER function sort of like perl16:43
daviddelikatI'll see if I can find it16:43
+MrHairgreasethat's the prototype chain16:43
* daviddelikat looking at JS documentation16:43
+MrHairgreasebut you can only add a prototype to an object16:43
+MrHairgreasewhich a contructor isn't16:43
daviddelikatthe constructor is part of an object though...16:44
daviddelikatyou add a constuctor to the new object that calls the constructor from the parent object16:44
+MrHairgreaseok, so how would I do that?16:45
+MrHairgreaseDefinitieTool = function () [16:46
daviddelikatworking on it...16:46
+MrHairgreasethis.prototype = new DynamicDropper( arguments);16:46
+MrHairgreasemaybe that'll work16:46
daviddelikatare you using YUI?16:46
daviddelikatyou could use YAHOO.extend(...)16:47
+MrHairgreaseyeah I'm using YUI16:47
+MrHairgreaseI'll chcek that one out16:47
daviddelikatbut Im sure that JS has a construct...16:47
daviddelikatits not what I would call elegant, but then neither is javascript16:51
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+MrHairgreasejavascript is elegant16:52
+MrHairgreasewe're just doing it wrong16:52
daviddelikatjavascript was not designed to do what people use it for today16:52
daviddelikatthis results in very in-elegant sollutions to many problems...16:53
daviddelikatyou can try to make a dog work like a spider by grafting on legs, but it will never look as good a s a spider16:53
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+MrHairgreasegot it to wrok with YUI extend17:07
+MrHairgreaseIt's done like this: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m11a702d217:09
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+perlmonkey2If you couldn't remember the call to create a new unique assetId and were trying to look it up, how would you go about that?17:45
+MrHairgreaseask here17:46
+bartjolor there17:46
+MrHairgreaseor be like th eurotrash17:47
+bartjolbut that is not the question17:47
+MrHairgreaseand know *EVERYTHING* (echo echo echo)17:47
+bartjolhow would you find it is17:47
+perlmonkey2MrHairgrease: thanks for the info.  But how would you go about finding htat info yourself?  I was looking in the asset constructor, randoming choosing assets to meander through.  Hit the forums.17:47
+MrHairgreaseack guid?17:48
@Haargwhy would you need to do that yourself?17:48
+bartjolwell, I would look for a method to create the asset in asset17:48
+MrHairgreaseb/c pm2 is not from europe17:48
+bartjoland read the code17:48
+bartjolor look in the online api17:48
+perlmonkey2Haarg: I don't need a real assetId, I need a unique id to identify encryption instances.17:49
+perlmonkey2ack guid brought it up :D17:49
@Haargseems like WebGUI::Session::Id should really just be WebGUI::GUID or something17:50
@tavistopreaction, http://sosexpert.com/blog/?p=533917:54
@tavistothat's unfortunately a potential customer I was working with.. who apparently doesn't like the quote that Vrby provided17:54
@tavistoOr maybe he's trying to get a comparison on cost from someone else.. not sure. It's a good size project though17:55
+bartjolwell, I like the footer beneath the message:  Proudly powered by WordPress and Carrington17:58
+MrHairgreaseah well17:59
@HaargMrHairgrease, is there a reason for WebGUI::Shop::TaxDriver::EU to load SOAP::Lite?18:07
+MrHairgreaseOh, yeah18:07
+MrHairgreasethat was from the first vesrion when I did the VAT nr checking myself18:08
+MrHairgreaseno I'm using Business:Tax::VAT for that18:08
daviddelikatcheck it out!  http://delikat.homeip.net:8080/18:08
+MrHairgreaseso it's not necessary anymore18:08
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+perlDreamermorning, folks18:14
daviddelikatperlDreamer: http://delikat.homeip.net:8080/18:14
+perlDreamerinteresting concept, daviddelikat18:15
+perlDreamerhow do you close newly opened tabs?18:15
daviddelikatits the new helpdesk18:15
@tavistotop of the mornin' to ya18:15
daviddelikatits a work in progress18:15
daviddelikatwhere do you think the close button ought to be?18:16
+perlDreameron the tab18:16
+perlDreamerlittle X icon18:16
daviddelikatI thought you'd say that...18:17
+perlDreamerseems like I've seen that somewhere before...18:17
+perlDreameralso, given the recent formatting problems, I'd suggest a new ticket layout18:17
+perlDreamerthat uses a 1 column layout instead of 218:17
daviddelikathmmm, not int he scope of my project18:17
daviddelikathave to see what the boss thinks...18:18
daviddelikatwhats wrong with this format?18:18
+perlDreamerhave a look at the newest bug on webgui.org's bug board18:18
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daviddelikatperlDreamer: I think the solution to that is to put the Issue text into a box with auto scrollbars...18:23
+perlDreamerit needs to be a fixed width one, then, and narrower than the current one since even with a standard bug the editing controls are hidden.18:24
+perlDreamerbut like you said, out of scope18:25
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+perlmonkey2Should the web user have permission to write to the conf file/18:26
+perlDreamerit's not under the DocumentRoot18:27
+perlDreamerbartjol: kathy says hi18:28
+bartjolah, thank, give her my regards18:28
+perlDreamerwill do :)18:28
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@Haargperlmonkey2, apache's user shouldn't need write permission to the config files18:31
+perlmonkey2Haarg: even if you are using session->config->set?18:31
@Haargapache should never do that18:31
+perlmonkey2if that's true, then I have a way blown deadline.18:31
@Haargthat's why the settings table exists18:32
@Haargconfig files only get loaded on startup18:32
+perlmonkey2I think it was decided to put this in the config file for safety since encryption keys/info would be stored there.18:33
@Haargeven if apache could write to the file, which it can't depend on, forked apache processes wouldn't get the new information18:33
+perlmonkey2Haarg: was going to put in a button to restart webgui18:34
@Haargin the web interface?18:34
@Haargthat's getting into a whole different issue18:35
+perlDreamerusually, only root is allowed to do that18:35
@tavistofirefox 3.5 seems to move a bit quicker with wG admin on18:37
@tavistothan the old ff18:37
+perlDreamerit's supposed to have faster JS, so that's expected (and good news)18:37
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CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11405 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Internationalize some Event edit form error messages.18:40
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daviddelikathaarg: how hard would it be to add a list command to wgd --> it would list the assets inside another asset.19:01
@Haargwgd ls19:01
daviddelikatgotta get new glasses19:01
@Haargwould be nice if it was a bit faster, but that can't be done without keeping the program running19:04
+perlDreamerwgdd is the WebGUI Developer Daemon19:05
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11406 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Backporting event error message i18n19:08
+perlDreamerI added the config counter to the upgrade script, finally.19:20
+perlDreamerand by next Thursday I'll have that package import option (for in-place vs in-parent) done, too19:21
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11407 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm t/Storage.t): Add hex generation code to tempspace Storage objects. Otherwise, they return undef.19:23
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11408 /WebGUI/sbin/upgrade.pl: 19:23
CIA-44WebGUI: Add a counter to the upgrade script, so you know how many configs there are19:23
CIA-44WebGUI: to do, and how many are done.19:23
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11409 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/sbin/upgrade.pl: Backporting upgrade.pl enhancement, uh bug!19:23
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym20:35
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knowmad1hey folks!22:15
knowmad1i just got the Ubuntu security email about Compress::Raw::Zlib vulnerabilities22:15
knowmad1any concern for WebGUI/WRE?22:16
knowmad1i didn't see any forum discussions in my search22:16
@preactionlooks like the latest WRE uses 2.01922:18
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+perlmonkey2ut oh, now I'll never get anything done ever again: http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/games.html22:30
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+perlDreamerperlmonkey2: It costs $100 to play those games22:34
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: eh?  I'm downloading now and didn't see anything about prices.22:35
+perlDreamerno linux/MacOs versions available22:35
+perlmonkey2I've got a XP vm and am going to try wine22:36
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+perlmonkey2need to run some test cases on the encryption module.  no fun and games for me.22:37
+perlDreamera few good reasons to look at Test Driven Development: http://use.perl.org/~Mark+Leighton+Fisher/journal/3921022:40
* perlmonkey2 pulls out his HTML hammer and smacks a query around.23:17
+perlmonkey2Oh, I see my problem.  I'm using my HTML hammer and I need the SQL hammer.23:17
+perlmonkey2Hmm, when you have a broken workflow and the scheduler is set to run it every minute, your logs become clogged with the foul proof of your ineptitude.  23:21
+perlDreamerwgd reset --dev 23:22
+perlmonkey2ah, anyone here remember how to put a keyword in a query that is a column name?  ie select field, key, row, table from myTable?23:25
@Haargor backquotes if you are doing it directly i guess23:26
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+perlmonkey2arrg!! backticks is how you do it.  But I'll use quote_identifier, it looks more correct.23:26
+perlmonkey2thanks Haarg23:26
@Haarganything dynamic i would say always use quote_identifier23:27
+perlmonkey2roger roger.  Sanitizers++23:28
@preactionhi Zeos! did you have a question?23:42
+perlmonkey2sub execute{my $self = shift; $self->session->log->error("I'm in the workflow");}   Why would my workflow not be running?23:48
+perlmonkey2In running workflows it has shown up suspended with the last state an error.  But nothing in the logs.23:49
+perlDreameris the workflow syntax clean?23:50
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: if I mess up the syntax I get an exceptoin23:52
+perlmonkey2well and error in the logs23:52
+perlmonkey2and when the sql was bad I received an error there also.23:52
+perlDreamerdoes execute need to return anything in particular to work correctly?23:52
+perlDreamerlike OK, or DONE or WAITING?23:53
+perlmonkey2But for some reason the logs aren't showing up.  Maybe spectre is running as someone without permissions to write to messages23:53
+perlmonkey2even before it returns I have log statements.23:53
+perlDreameryou mean there's no test for this? ;)23:53
+perlmonkey2perl spectre.pl --test ?  is that what you mean?23:54
+perlDreamerno, perl t/Workflow/Activity/PerlMonkeyActivity.t23:58
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+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: I'd like to just run the workflow successfully once before writing the test for it.00:01
+perlmonkey2Or just get it to execute the first line after execute, just to show it entered.00:02
+perlmonkey2I mean my workflow's constructor has a simple error log that never is shown.  How can it have a lastStatus of error and not have logged that?00:07
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+perlmonkey2When you click run on a suspended workflow, what could cause it to go to a page with 'error' as the only html and nothing be placed in the logs?00:09
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11410 /WebGUI/docs/ (upgrades/upgrade_7.7.12-7.7.13.pl gotcha.txt): Remove session db based token storage.00:10
+perlDreamerdaviddelikat, as a frequent bug user, one other thing that would be handy is that whenever a user's name is displayed, if it was a link to their profile00:30
daviddelikatis there a macro or function that can provide that link?00:31
+perlDreamer$session->user->profileURL, I think00:31
daviddelikatit be easy enough to add 00:31
daviddelikatbut we want the named user not the current user i think00:32
+perlDreamerthat should be around anyway, if they're displaying usernames instead of userIds00:32
daviddelikatI'll take a look.00:32
@preactionanyone think there should be a nice way to add user-specific information without having to go through all the trouble of a profile field?00:33
@preactioninstead of session scratch, a user scratch?00:33
+perlDreamerwhere would you need it?00:33
daviddelikatyes that would be handy00:33
@preactionexample: I need to keep track of the number of notifications i've sent a user00:34
daviddelikatI would use it to set the default value for the helpdesk table number of rows00:34
@preactionthere should be no way to see this via the profile, and no way to edit it, in fact to any user of the front-end it Should Not Exist00:34
+perlDreamerone problem I see with it is that, unlike session scratch, it won't ever go away00:35
@preactiondaviddelikat: that should work as a session thing00:35
+perlDreamerso it could grow without checks/limits00:35
@preactionperlDreamer: it will go away when the user is deleted, but yes that's the idea00:35
daviddelikatyeah but it would be nice as a user thing00:35
+perlDreamerright, and sessions go away faster than users00:35
daviddelikatit shouldn't grow though because it will only have certain programatic parameters00:36
@preactionthink if it as a profile field, invisible, not-editable, and more importantly not visible or editable to Admins of the site00:36
@preactioneither that, or it should be easier to create these profile fields. a way to say "newOrCreate()" or something00:37
@preactioni'm lazy, and i have to do this too often00:37
+perlDreamernewOrCreate sounds good to me00:37
+perlDreamerit's just a wrapper around existing things00:38
+perlDreamerand it would be nice for upgrade scripts00:38
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11411 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: Preparing for 7.7.13 release.00:54
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CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11412 /releases/WebGUI_7.7.13-beta: Release 7.7.13-beta01:09
* perlmonkey2 contemplates sacrificing goats to make any of the workflows write to the logs.01:12
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2, it's working for me in a test01:19
+perlmonkey2hmm, added a return->COMPLETE right after my log statement.  And now when I run the workflow via the admin, it returns complete.  So for some reason the logging isn't working, but at least now I know the workflow is being ran.01:19
+perlDreamerwhat level is your logger set to?01:20
+perlmonkey2I think info, but shouldn't matter as i'm logging to error01:20
+perlmonkey2it is set to ERROR01:20
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11413 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.7.14 development01:23
+perlDreamerso, just for giggles, set it to warn, restart apache, and try again01:24
+perlmonkey2hmm, with warn I'd think I'd be getting a lot of extra logs.  but nothing01:26
+perlmonkey2but my code is definetely runnign01:26
+perlDreamerI've tried it both with a test script, and via the UI and it's logging for me01:26
+perlDreamerin both cases01:27
+perlmonkey2I'll see if non-spectre actions can log01:27
+perlmonkey2ridiculous...utterly ridiculous.01:30
+perlmonkey2I usually view logs by typing 'wlog' which is an alias for all the logs I want to tail when developing.  But for some reason I was manually picking them today.  And forgot that webgui isn't logging to messages but to webgui.log.  Not everything sent to syslogd goes to messages is the lesson of the day.01:31
+perlDreamersounds like you need less goats and more beer01:37
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: need more brains01:38
+perlDreamerI'll call George Romero01:39
+perlmonkey2Heh, good one.  I was thinking more like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQYjZc7gKXc01:42
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mech422how does this look for a build file ? http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3c65ee4702:24
mech422for the 'simple' case - only lines 8-10 change, or as this example shows you can have real logic in the build function02:25
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+perlDreamersf.net just released a new look and feel02:35
+perlDreamerand it seems quite broken02:35
mech422perlDreamer: sf.net is always broken :-P02:37
mech422perlDreamer: btw - could you look at the paste bin above and see what you thing ?02:38
+perlDreamerI think that I don't grok bash02:39
mech422I fail02:40
mech422you weren't really supposed to need to know bash to use it02:40
mech422mostly - just changing the 3 vars at the top should do it (and changing the tar command cuz I was too lazy to dynamically detect the archive type )02:41
+perlDreamermech422, I only mean that I don't know enough about build scripts to know if what I see is good or not02:42
mech422oh - how does it seem from a usability standpoint ?02:44
mech422simple enough to figure out what to put where ?02:44
+perlDreamerseems okay02:54
+perlDreamerhow does it get WRE specific build flags passed into it?02:54
mech422env flags02:56
mech422though there really arent many to speak of02:56
mech422here's the usage message so you can see what it does: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m6826791e03:06
mech422basically you can do stuff like: driver.sh update perl openssl apache03:07
mech422or: driver.sh download (this will download all packages listed in packages.txt )03:08
mech422echo.... echo..........echo.....................echooooo04:24
mech422wow its quiet today04:37
CIA-44WebGUI: patspam * r11414 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fixed Survey::Test diagnostics when comparing complex data structures04:52
CIA-44WebGUI: patspam * r11415 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm: Fixed: Survey - check for groupToEditSurvey as well as groupToViewSurvey in canView04:52
CIA-44WebGUI: patspam * r11416 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ExpressionEngine.pm: 04:52
CIA-44WebGUI: Fixed bug in Survey::ExpressionEngine - was not using most recent survey04:52
CIA-44WebGUI: response to resolve external values04:52
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+perlDreamercalendar is getting more sticky all the time05:02
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+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: So when was the last time you did something as stupid as I did today?  Ever?  When you were 3?05:24
+perlDreamerprobably yesterday05:24
+perlDreamerwhen I said, "Sure, I'll fix the calendar.  It will be easy"05:24
+perlmonkey2hah, you crack me up05:24
+perlmonkey2famous last words05:24
+perlDreameractually, it is easy, it's just a lot of work05:31
+perlDreamerlots more work than I thought, and most of it comes from the interpretation of time zones and end times05:32
+perlDreamerI think I'm going to draw up a proposal and float it past JT and Doug and see what they say about it05:32
mech422anyone know if there's any c++ template code in the WRE ?05:41
mech422I noticed this in the libtool docs:05:41
mech422# TODO: Verify if we need to do this (Do we have any C++ template code?) on Darwin :05:41
mech422# 05:41
mech422#    * On Darwin, for C++ code with templates you need two level shared05:41
mech422#      libraries.  Libtool builds these by default if05:41
mech422#      `MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET' is set to 10.3 or later at `configure'05:41
mech422#      time.  See `rdar://problem/4135857' for more information on this05:41
mech422#      issue.05:41
elninoanyone know what "auto pinging" is?05:43
mech422umm - you don't have to hand deliver the ping packets ? :-P05:46
mech422elnino: in what context did you see this ?05:46
elninosomeone what's a CMS that has this feature/functionality. no description given.05:47
+perlmonkey2elnino: like something to check for connectivity continuously?05:47
elnino"We want our site re-built with a CMS with built-in scripts for friendly URLs and Auto Pinging. "05:48
mech422elnino: oh05:48
+perlmonkey2I'd put money on a notification system for when connectivity is lost to the site.05:48
mech422email notification05:48
mech422perlmonkey2: nah - I bet they want notification on content update05:48
+perlmonkey2what does pinging have to do with content?05:48
mech422ping-back 05:48
mech422I'm guessing the confused it from blogtalk - 'trac back' and 'ping back' 05:49
+perlmonkey2seems possible05:49
mech422could go either way...05:50
elninohmm. interesting ok. 05:50
+perlmonkey2don't use their terminology, just bid it both ways :D05:50
mech422does this person seem the type to actually know what a network ping is ?05:50
elninoThanks guys!05:50
elninoprobably not mech422.05:50
mech422bid it with both - and tell them it costs double :-P05:50
elninoI'll think more if I want to bid.   well, I'm going to go watch a movie now, for probably the last time for a long time.  =)05:51
+perlmonkey2"we continuously check and update for network connectivity. blah blah talk about something else ... and we can update you whenever content is altered/added.05:51
mech422I always love that monitoring shit05:53
mech422people never realize its a 2 location thing05:54
mech422"ok - I want an email when the network goes down.."05:54
mech422"Umm - and how exactly am I supposed to do that ? " :-P05:54
mech422at which point you can sell them a nice off site monitoring service :-)05:55
+perlmonkey2Which is why everything should be written down with lots and lots of diagrams.06:14
+perlmonkey2When dealing with non-technical clients there is nothing more important than excellent writing skills and the ability to concisely summarize complex ideas with a few quick to grok diagrams.06:15
+perlmonkey2feels like there should have been more alliteration in that last sentence.06:16
topsubWhats the min. ram you would use on webgui?06:17
mech422Heh.. personally, I find vodka to be most helpful when dealing with non-technical clients :-P06:17
mech422topsub: that sounds like a dangerous question - how much load before it's allowed to die ?06:18
mech422but then again, when I see 'min ram' I think < 128M :-)06:19
mech422topsub: if it helps any - my dev. box is 512M for the whole machine including wG but I'm the only one that hits it06:22
+perlDreamertopsub, never less than a gig06:29
+perlDreamerWebGUI will run on less06:30
+perlDreamerbut it won't perform well06:30
+perlDreamerthe more sites, the more apache and mysqld children, the more memory06:44
+perlDreamerelnino, google says that autoping is a notification by the site that pages have changed06:52
+perlDreamereither the ability to ping other sites, or to respond to those kinds of pings, I'd guess06:52
topsubah. i want o get more for my box06:52
@preactionperlDreamer: re: Calendar, I told you so :p06:55
+perlDreamerI know.  I'm working on a spec to send on to you.06:55
+perlDreamerstill, there's a lot of good code in here06:55
@preactionyeah, but it doesn't handle the hairy cases well. 06:56
@preactionas i've been told since i wrote it: Calendars are some of the most complicated systems to write, just because of the nature of what we consider date and time06:56
+perlDreamerwell, if you've backlogged, I think the problems are simple, they just need to be fixed all over the place06:57
+perlDreamerwhich is where good tests come in06:57
+perlDreamerdue to the original coding, it's fairly easy to test06:57
@preactioni'm backlogged until next month probably, but i'll definately look over whatever you want me to06:57
+perlDreamerno need to post process HTML to get the template variables06:57
@preactionthe way some of my projects are going, i suspect i'm really backlogged until after the WUC :p06:58
+perlDreamerthere are fewer things cooler than hacking while watching the Matrix06:58
@preactioni wanted to get the Alumni site upgrade to 7.7 last month, but there's a slight problem with one of our subclasses of the Collaboration System. i haven't had a single full day to work on it since i figured out what the problem was :p06:58
@preactionand 7.7 has all the performance enhancements Alumni paid for 06:59
@preaction(template attachments and minifying)06:59
@preactionam i correct in assuming that perl -e'undef < 3' will always be false?07:00
+perlDreamerin numerical context, undef == 007:00
@preactionin fact, that "undef TEST 'anything'" will always be false?07:00
+perlDreamerundef == 007:00
+perlDreamerundef eq ''07:00
@preactionif undef == 0, then 0 < 3, then that is true07:00
+perlDreamerwhoops, then I read the original question wrong07:01
+perlDreamerundef < 3 is always true07:01
@preactionyeah, you're right, crap07:01
@preactionthen something else is wrong with my code07:01
@preactionhttp://webgui.pastebin.com/m3585f2bb <- it's pretty ugly07:03
@preactionbut the idea is that we send a notification out to a user, and then update the "importnotified" profile field with the number of the notification (1 or 2)07:04
@preactionafter a third interval, the user gets deleted07:05
@preactionthis workflow activity runs once per minute right now (will be moved to once per hour)07:05
@preactionthis is where i found out that Interval form types are retarded07:05
@preactionthis is also where i found i needed a not-profile-field :p07:05
@preaction(iow, this little activity should be a lot easier than it's been made here...)07:06
+perlDreamerthis is why you want 8 days as an interval07:06
@preactionit was 7 weeks actually, but yeah07:06
@preactionbecause 8 weeks they're deleted07:06
+perlDreamerare you buying my "use the right tool for the job" response?07:06
@preactionno, i'm not. that field IS the right tool :p07:06
+perlDreamerDBIx::Class vs DBI speed comparison: http://use.perl.org/~domm/journal/3921307:07
+perlDreamerthe field is the right tool, but the secondsToInterval isn't07:07
@preactionanyway, right now i'm thinking that either line 39 is never reached, or that line 39 is always false07:07
@preactionoh, secondsToInterval can be fixed though07:07
+perlDreamerit can be fixed "this time"07:08
+perlDreamerand next time07:09
+perlDreamerand the time after that07:09
+perlDreamerbut DateTime is the right solution for this time and all of them now07:09
@preactionno, it can be fixed permanently. divide by the larged number you can until you get an integer response07:09
@preactionso when $input % $divisor == 0, return $input % divisor, $labels{$divisor}07:10
+perlDreamerbut what's more valid, 8 weeks or 2 months?07:10
@preaction2 months07:10
@preaction2 months != 8 weeks07:10
+perlDreamerwell, we're talking intervals so approximately07:10
+perlDreamerDateTIme::Duration makes for good reading07:11
@preactioni still don't think it's fair to compare DBI and DBIx::Class. they're two different use-cases. for WebGUI's normal use (viewing the site), I suspect DBIx::Class will be comparable. this is a special case07:12
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@preactionbut, it of course remains to be seen07:12
@preactionideally i'd like to have both. one for easy prototyping, and improved speed in the other07:12
@preactionbut with the number of moving parts in WebGUI... maybe the idea should be to reduce the number of APIs we have, period07:13
@preactionuser, group, profile == necessary. asset == optional.07:13
@preactionwebgui will work w/o assets, in theory07:13
@preactionmacros, also optional. i wonder what kind of speedup we'd get without having to parse for macros07:14
@preactioni mean, yes, everybody loves macros. even i do, but what if there was a site you didn't need them on?07:15
+perlDreamerin general, JT's found that for HTML::Template that macros are faster than template variables.07:15
@preactionor, better, what if there was another way to get nearly the same functionality?07:15
+perlDreamerand that was before Graham's speed-up earlier this year07:15
@preactiontrue, and graham's speed-up was what, 3x or 30x07:15
@preactionone of those i know07:15
@preactionbut still, webgui is huge and major parts are not touched by many sites07:16
+perlDreamerit was a bunch07:16
@preactionand we keep adding more parts, and those parts may or may not be used by people07:16
+perlDreamerit would be easy to add a check of the config file variable before doing macro processing07:16
+perlDreamerif no macros are listed, skip the parse07:17
+perlDreamerbut every default template in WebGUI uses macros07:17
@preactionah. crap07:17
+perlDreamerwell, a lot of default templates07:17
@preactionwell, pie in the sky. there might come a day where big pieces of webgui become optional07:17
+perlDreamerkeep dreaming, preaction.  Great things come of dreams07:18
@preactioni'm also thinking of implementing Test::Class sooner rather than later. i like the idea immensely07:19
mech422Have you guys heard of WSGI ?07:32
+perlDreamersounds familiar07:32
+perlDreamerWeb Services....?07:32
mech422Web Services Gateway Interface I think07:33
mech422basically it allows you to create 'pipelines' for processing web requests07:33
@preactionit's CGI++. it's also huge in the Python world07:34
mech422so you can (re-)configure a site to use various modules07:34
mech422preaction: right :-)  07:34
mech422not sure if there's something comparable in perl07:34
mech422but that would be a cool way to do something like wG07:34
mech422for instance - i18n ? don't need it ? remove it from the pipeline07:34
mech422want authentication ? wire it into the pipeline07:35
mech422need to change template engines - rewire the pipeline07:35
mech422etc etc07:35
mech422very very cool stuff :-)07:35
+perlDreamersounds like the apache request cycle07:35
+perlDreamercontent handlers and the like07:35
mech422Hmm - yo no se Apache ?07:36
mech422oh! it would be cool to get wG running on nginx too :-)07:36
mech422wonder if anyone has done that yet ?07:36
@preactionmech422: frodwith has some time set aside to see about WebGUI as FastCGI07:37
@preaction(instead of mod_perl)07:37
mech422would FastCGI reduce teh coupling/reliance on apache ?07:39
mech422that would be a nice by-product :-)07:39
+perlDreamerI don't know.  It's hard enough testing on multiple browsers.07:41
+perlDreamertesting on multiple servers sounds like even less fun.07:41
@preactionFastCGI would decouple from the server entirely.07:42
mech422perlDreamer: heh07:42
@preactionfastcgi means your application is, itself, a long-running server process07:42
mech422preaction: ahh - very cool :-)07:42
+perlDreamerpreaction, you'd still have to deal with FastCGI differences on the different servers.  FastCGI on apache, and all the rest.07:43
@preactioneh, WebGUI only has to support one if we want07:43
mech422umm - supposedly FCGI is a standard isn't it ?07:43
+perlDreamersure, just like HTML07:43
+perlDreamerand like perl07:43
* perlDreamer is too cynical nowadays07:43
@preactionp5 isn't a standard ;)07:44
@preactionp6 is 07:44
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mech422heh - well, choice is always nice07:44
topsubIs it possible for an RFE to be able to delete itemsi n your clip board?07:47
@preactiontopsub: i'll take your meaning to be "Could I make an RFE to do this"? and yes07:47
@preactionyou can make an RFE to ask WebGUI to tie your shoes if you wanted ;)07:47
+perlDreamerbetter put a lot of karma into that last one07:48
+perlDreamertopsub, RFEs with patches have good chances of being implemented.07:48
@preactionwell, they will get put into webgui as soon as the RFE's approved, provided they follow our guidelines07:49
+perlDreameryeah, but this is as simple as a little UI.  Add a button to the clipboard screen that says delete, pointing to func=deleteList and it's all done07:50
+perlDreamer1 hour tops, with hand testing and i18n07:50
+perlDreamerthe delete button sits right next to the paste button07:51
mech422ok - time to make da breakfast burrito07:56
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topsubsorry i guess i was asking does anyone copy stuff then like.. i don't need it anymore and just want to delete it08:01
@preactionyes, i've done that a couple times now08:01
+perlDreameri still think it's a good RFE08:05
@preactionyes, likewise08:05
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CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11417 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Event.t: Clean-up of version tags in this test. Deleting a parent deletes the children.08:10
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CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11418 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): 08:23
CIA-44WebGUI: Add an Event method for returning a non-inclusive end DataTime object.08:23
CIA-44WebGUI: Have Calendar use that for determining the end of a week in viewWeek.08:23
CIA-44WebGUI: Fix getEventsIn to do all comparisons in UTC so that extra events are not added in.08:23
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11419 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Backport calendar and event fixes and tests.08:23
+perlDreamerpreaction, if you have time, check out the new Event and Calendar tests08:24
Radix_lol @ http://blogs.computerworld.com/london_stock_exchange_to_abandon_failed_windows_platform08:33
+perlDreamerRadix_, now if they'd just switch to WebGUI...08:34
Radix_hey.. at least they're on the right platform!08:34
Radix_one small leap for man.. one huge leap for mankind..08:35
mech422I'm really surprised they use pc's anyway...08:39
mech422when I worked at TeCam systems (we did the mexico city exchange when it opened) - it was all fault tolerant minis (stratus, and that software fault tolerant one) and mainframes (IBM, DEC)08:40
elninojeepers that was a long movie.. going to bed now.. Thanks perlDreamer for googling autoping. And your're right mech422, customers don't get that it has to be a 2 location thing.  =)08:40
* elnino is sleepy08:40
mech422elnino: g'nite :-)08:40
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* perlDreamer is packing it in. Good night, all.08:50
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mech422SnowWrite is asking about aptanna  ? anyone used the editor ?09:02
@preactionwhich editor?09:07
@preactionoh, doesn't work with Perl09:07
@preactioni've used Komodo IDE, which works with Perl09:07
@preactionhmm... based on Eclipse, which i've never liked09:08
@preactionbut then I hate IDEs on principle09:08
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mech422preaction: yeah - she's looking at aptana but wants  textmate or coda09:16
mech422aptanna doesn't work with perl ? funny - I would have thought eclipse did perl ?09:16
mech422I _like_ eclipse - I just wish it wasn't sooo slow as to be unusable :-P09:16
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@preactioneclipse does have a Perl plugin, but i don't know what aptana does that's special for Perl09:28
@preactioni'm a vim person, i've got plans to make vim easier to use09:29
@preactionthere are plugins for certain things, but they're not very friendly currently09:29
@preactionthere's a VCS plugin, for Git, SVN, CVS, but it's horrible to use09:29
@preactionit can be much nicer09:29
mech422I like kate myself... its 'just enough' ide for me 09:29
mech422oh? I didn't realize vim had a plugin system....09:30
@preactionvim has a whole scripting language09:30
@preactionlike emacs only less of a real language09:30
@preactionvim.org has scripts for download09:30
@preactionperl-support is nice, has a lot of good stuff09:30
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+perlmonkey2holy smokes, everyone see the new webgui padre plugin?16:54
mech422padre ?17:12
mech422oh cool :-)17:13
SquOnkIt's a nice IDE for Perl... something for the VIM/EMACS impaired <g>17:13
mech422heh - rather appropriate as I just spent hours trying to get Kate (kde editor) to work properly on vista17:16
* SquOnk shudders at anything KDE related17:18
SquOnkmech422: Try VIM or EMACS on Windows17:18
mech422Somehow I can't picture Donna using Emacs :-P   Kate worked ok, but the sftp editing wouldn't go :-(17:20
mech422she's also looking at aptana (eclipse) and lusting after textmate and coda :-P17:21
mech422SquOnk: what don't you like about KDE ?  what do you use instead ?17:22
SquOnkmech422: Gnome + Xmonad17:22
SquOnkmech422: Too bloated. Too windowy. Too slow even on a fast machine with loads of RAM.17:23
mech422dunno xmonad ? (goes to google..)17:23
SquOnkmech422: It's a window manager written in Haskell and thus customizable with it.17:23
mech422slow ? heh - can't say I've noticed, even though I'm running in a VM ?17:23
mech422ahh - my issue was Gnome was it always felt half done17:23
SquOnkmech422: It is. And when running on batteries it's _hell in summer_.17:23
mech422but that was years ago - I haven't really touched gnome since before miguel moved onto mono17:24
SquOnkmech422: Most of Gnome has no relation with Mono (yet)17:24
SquOnkmech422: There are some applications written in Mono, but not the core nor the really useful ones.17:24
mech422except the founders - I meant I havent touched gnome in lcose to 10 years...17:24
mech422prolly back when Miguel was still doing the evolution company (in boston? )17:25
mech422anyway - I'm very happy with KDE, and pissed/disappointed I can't use it for windows yet :-(17:26
SquOnkmech422: Hopefully you will one day.17:28
SquOnkI for one won't.17:28
mech422hmmm - wonder if Rasterman ever finished that desktop he was doing...17:31
mech422e17 ?17:31
mech422Enlightenment! thats it :-)17:32
+perlmonkey2The one thing I really miss about emacs is the ability to execute shell commands from a window.  17:54
SquOnkmech422: There has been few (if any?) releases lately. He expects everyone to check out from SVN and build17:54
+perlmonkey2mech422: what do you like about KDE over Gnome?17:54
SquOnkperlmonkey2: You can do that in VIM17:54
+perlmonkey2SquOnk: really?  how!! :D17:54
+perlmonkey2ah, I read oen article that said you can't and another says :sh17:55
SquOnkperlmonkey2: You want to run something and have it's output on a VIM window, right?17:55
+perlmonkey2ah, :sh is lame :(17:55
+perlmonkey2SquOnk: yes, like emacs does.17:56
SquOnkperlmonkey2: You should get the Perl plugin for VIM and be merry17:56
+perlmonkey2maybe I should relearn emacs.  I seem to recall it being way more powerful than VIM.  But I've used vim for about 10 years now, will be hard to stop.17:56
+perlmonkey2I have the perl plugin for vim.  very nice.17:56
SquOnkperlmonkey2: Well, Perl -> Run -> output let's you configure where do you want your output...17:57
SquOnkperlmonkey2: ...then you hit Ctrl-F9 and the program will run, having whatever it outputs in either a new window or and xterm17:58
mech422SquOnk: yeah - there was something a few weeks ago, but it seems to be very sporadic18:00
mech422his personal domain is really out of date too :-( 18:00
mech422perlmonkey2: Umm - I say KDE feels more 'polished' to me then gnome did18:01
mech422perlmonkey2: it just seems to fit together well, work well, and look good18:02
mech422perlmonkey2: I think because all the 'hard' stuff is in the base classes - back when I last really played with gnome, half the apps were broken in one way or another depending on which parts of the 'magic' the devs really understood18:03
+perlmonkey2hmm, maybe I should give it another go.  It doesn't use Gtk but qt, right?18:03
mech422yeah- qt4 now18:03
mech422actually, if you like eye candy - its got a native compositing/effects engine that works with 2D cards now :-)18:04
+perlmonkey2this latest version of gnome seems fairly bullet proof.  But I have nothing to compare it to.18:04
+perlmonkey2I use compiz with gnome and it is pretty whizbang.18:04
+perlmonkey2brb, going to log in with kde18:04
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+perlmonkey2hmm, 450MB install and I'd have to give up gnome-terminal, plus rhythmbox beats amarok any day of the week.18:08
mech422compviz was ok - but needed too much tweaking to get it working - then there was the whole fork-merge thing - the kde engine was all-in-one so it was trival to setup18:09
mech422rhythmbox ?  I haven't see that18:09
+perlmonkey2hmm...In the Fedora 11 build compiz is a button click away.18:10
+perlmonkey2ust turn it on in preferences.18:10
mech422I actually like amarok - but I'm not much for music - just use it for the occasional streaming radio stuff18:10
mech422perlmonkey2: yeah - last time I tried you needed to hack config files and enable X11 crap by hand18:11
+perlmonkey2I need a tool for handling my ipod.  I don't listen to much music on the lappy, so the fact rhythmbox has much better support for devices decied it for me.18:11
+perlmonkey2mech422: wow, what distro/version18:11
mech422does gnome-terminal do tabbed sessions ?  and have a ssh-agent ?  that's really nice for when I have to connect to the servers18:11
mech422perlmonkey2: source - debian about a year ago ?18:11
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mech422perlmonkey2: back during the compviz - fusion split thing18:12
+perlmonkey2mech422: yes and yes.  I couldn't live without tabbed terms18:12
+perlmonkey2cntrl-j/k to move back and forth.18:12
+perlDreamertabbed terms are awesome18:12
+perlmonkey2yeah, it is like......a little slice of heaven.18:12
+perlmonkey2mech422: ah, fusion.  I have painful memories of that.18:13
mech422hmm- I seem to recall something in KDE for doing ipod stuff - the poster was basically saying theres like a dozen ways to use an ipod without iTunes18:13
mech422yeah - tabbies rock :-)18:13
mech422trying to look at rythmbox now18:14
+perlmonkey2yes, the fedora repo has many many options.  But the most complete solution that bugs me the least seems to be rythmbox.18:14
+perlmonkey2heh, I'm so closed minded.  Not in the repos then it is alpha :P18:14
mech422heh - I guess ITunes really sucks - even the windows crowd hates it :-P18:14
+perlmonkey2yeah, I never liked it.  locked up all the time, seemed to grow to take up all your memory, tried very very hard to not do what you wanted with your video.  That was on XP though, no idea the experience on Mac.18:15
mech422here's some basic screenshots of kde 4 - http://www.kde.org/screenshots the plasma and phonon stuff is supposed to be a 'big deal'18:15
mech422I just know I couldn't uninstall the dam thing from xp when one of the kids installed it18:16
+perlmonkey2oooohhhh, shiny18:16
+perlmonkey2that is pretty18:16
mech422man - rythmbox is ugly!18:17
mech422are those screen shots current ?18:17
+perlmonkey2heh, looks a lot like macos18:17
mech422kde ? yeah - they have a lot of 'make kde4 into osx' type themes18:17
+perlmonkey2rhythmbox is ugly.  They didn't get the memo that function without form is for losers.18:17
+perlmonkey2I don't like single menu bar though.  My tool bar is jammed with quick starts and monitoring applets.18:18
mech422perlmonkey2: you can look at http://www.kde-look.org/ if you want to see whats out there18:18
mech422oh - you can have as many 'panels' as you want - is that want you mean ?18:19
+perlmonkey2okay okay, downloading kde now :P18:19
mech422heh - not pressuring :-P  thats why the kde-look link - if ya like eye candy, you can browse without installing :-P18:19
* perlDreamer doesn't like kde anymore18:19
+perlmonkey2mech422: is a panel a bar on the top or bottom for adding menu related stuff?18:19
+perlDreamerI loved kmail18:20
+perlDreameruntil it lost my addressbook in the last upgrade18:20
mech422perlDreamer: kontact needs some serious love ...18:20
mech422kmail is its weakest piece - the time tracking stuff is killer though18:20
+perlmonkey2kde falls into the webkit sphere doesn't it?18:20
mech422webkit came from kde, yeah18:20
+perlmonkey2can gecko really survive with people standardizing on webkit?18:21
mech422umm - a panel is like a think bar you can put on anywhere on the screen with icons for launching apps, menus that 'slide' out etc18:21
+perlmonkey2I guess so.  With an ecosystem of millions, it can probably do just fine.18:21
mech422they can also 'swallow' stuff to the 'systray' area18:22
+perlmonkey2mech422: then I probably mean a menu bar like on the bottom of the kde screens.  Gnome has one on top and bottom (by default).18:22
+perlmonkey2no, it is called a panel18:22
mech422yeah - I don't see gecko going away ...  but I'd love to see all the webkit fixes/enhancements merged back to KDE18:22
+perlmonkey2nevermind that I said anything :P18:22
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+perlmonkey2hmm, my userland home is about to be polluted with the billion .files from gnome plus the new ones from kde.  this is about to get messy.18:24
mech422it shouldn't...18:24
mech422I thought they 'agreed' on that now18:24
mech422kde can use gnome shortcuts and vice versa ?18:24
mech422oh - you mean app specific directories for config files and such ?18:25
mech422yeah - if you fire up a ton of new apps , you'll get them :-P18:25
mech422I was thinking desktop shortcuts and menus18:25
+perlmonkey2gnome's flora/fauna plus KDE's should make a solid mess of my .home18:25
mech422heh - create a new user ?18:26
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11420 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/ (changelog/7.x.x.txt upgrades/upgrade_7.6.25-7.6.26.pl): Fix a bug in an upgrade script.18:26
mech422just for testing ?18:26
+perlmonkey2ut oh, forogt about konsole.  I think that is why I abandoned kde all those years ago.  No tabbing?18:26
mech422yeah - it tabs18:26
mech422but its not control-t by default - its somethign stupid18:27
+perlmonkey2and looks pretty doing it (from the screen shots )18:27
mech422check the settings18:27
+perlmonkey2yeah, I have to customize almost everything I use to my preferred hotkeys.  Eclipse/Netbeans are egregious in their default settings.18:27
mech422its like shift-control-bark-at-the-moon or somethign18:27
SquOnkYou missed --pretty-please18:28
mech422the 'problem' was some useless feature had usurped ctrl-t18:28
+perlmonkey2never can find the bark-at-the-moon key when I need it :P18:28
mech422its right next to vi's 'dammit!' key18:28
mech422quit-dammit! , save-dammit!, bark-at-the-moon-dammit!18:29
SquOnkIn 22 years of vi I haven't had the need for such key18:29
mech422you don't use ':q!' ?18:29
mech422or ':w!' ?18:29
SquOnkYes, but without the cursing :)18:29
mech422the '!' used to be called the 'dammit'18:29
+perlmonkey2oh, by damnit you mean bang!  Like if you don't complete this command I'm going to get a gun and go BANG18:29
SquOnkI've had to remap CapsLock to ESC though, but that's a hardware problem :)18:30
+perlmonkey2you have to threaten VIM to show you mean it.18:30
mech422perlmonkey2: yeah - it used to be the dammit... then it was the 'bang" in ''sha-bang'" ('#!')18:30
+perlmonkey2heh, 94 minutes is the fastest I could possibly download KDE.  Yay for living in the sticks.18:31
+perlmonkey2I like damnit better18:31
mech422perlmonkey2: I do too - but I'm an old redneck :-P18:31
+perlmonkey2but splat is just perfect and timeless.18:31
mech422hehe... and what was the old story about the person that called support trying to get '6' to edit their file ?18:32
mech422oh - and on the emacs front we have emacs = Eighty Megs And Constantly Swapping  :-P18:33
+perlmonkey2yeah, I knew moving out here my internets would be teh sux, but a plethora of reasons to live outside the cities.18:33
SquOnkEMACS = EMACS Makes Any Computer Slow18:34
SquOnkEMACS = Escape Meta Alt Control Shift18:34
mech422I grew up in the sticks (New Hampshire) - so of course, I moved to the city :-)  I think everyone just likes a change..18:34
+perlmonkey2I think emacs usually had a one keystroke advantage in editing, and could certainly traverse files faster.18:34
mech422SquOnk: heh - that last one opens the emacs tetris game doesn't it ? :-P18:34
SquOnkmech422: Wouldn't know18:35
+perlmonkey2no, I think it turns on the hot water in the emacs sink.18:35
mech422anyway - not sure KDE apps are the 'best of breed' for any particular usage.. but they fit together nicely, and seem pretty solid18:36
mech422I use stuff like kpdf/ockular a lot for work - along with Kate and Konversation for irc18:36
+perlmonkey2Hmm, I grew up in a small farming town, moved to denver for 5 years, then to a small cattle town.  Then to Albuquerque, then to Tulsa, then to Toledo, then to OKC, then back to a small cattle town.18:36
mech422I started in New England and ended up exactly opposite - 'big city' , 'left coast'18:37
+perlmonkey2If I ever leave I'm thinking Sacremento megaplex area somewhere.  Still surrounded by agriculture, but close to the Ocean and multitudes.18:38
+perlmonkey2Although if I'm rich it will be San Fran 18:39
mech422Really? I've been thinking about going back to phx18:39
mech422but it would be hard to give up Fry's18:39
mech422(Fry's in phx suck :-P )18:39
+perlmonkey2What could possibly attract you to Phoenix?18:40
mech422oh - check out kdevelop once you got it running - it was shaping up _really_ nice last time I checked18:40
+perlmonkey2If you grew up with the green, the brown is hard to take.  I loved Albuquerque, but the desert was just too much.18:40
SquOnkperlmonkey2: I'm betting is not football.18:40
mech422actually - I was surprised how green it is...18:40
mech422and how much rain there is :-P18:40
+perlmonkey2Flagstaff sure isn't 18:41
mech422but its _cheap_ , _great_ weather18:41
mech422oh - flag is just a wide spot in the road - they don't believe in landscaping out there18:41
mech422aside from a few old junkers on the lawn :-P18:41
mech422ASU girlies in shorts all year is a nice benefit too18:42
+perlmonkey2I've got a good buddy who lives in Phoenix.  Used to work for Honeywell but is now in engineering sales.  Absolutely loves it, so close to Mexico and decent weather.18:42
mech422Umm - decent tech - Amex, GE, Motorola, Intel, McDongal Douglas, etc18:42
* SquOnk trumps ASU girlies with any Venezuelan girl18:43
SquOnk...which happen to be in shorts most of the time18:43
+perlmonkey2SquOnk++  yay for the ladies in the shorts.18:44
mech422only real down side is all the old snow birds18:44
mech422and the fact that too many califorians figured out how cool it is, and are raising the prices :-P18:44
mech422when intel moved in, they literally broke 2 school districts with all hte new kids18:45
+perlmonkey2Hmm, google maps shows Phoenix a blip of green smack in the middle of high desert.  Just like Albuquerque.  no thanks :)18:45
+perlDreamerwell, notwithstanding the fact that the state has been in a financial crisis for like two years?18:45
mech422buidling moritoriums, lotteries for building permits, prices doubling on houses18:45
mech422perlDreamer: hello ? califorian - there is no finincial crisis :-P18:46
+perlmonkey2think of the property taxes you'll get to pay.  And the knowledge that they'll be skyrocketing for years to come.18:46
mech422perlDreamer: I mean  hell, Compared to Cali, phx is a model of responsible goverance :-P18:47
+perlmonkey2I have this idea that Californians will start trading goods with chopped up pieces of IOU's.18:47
mech422Donna just said some thing about some states considering using precious metals for trade ?18:47
mech422I was babbling about kde so I didnt' get the whole thing though18:47
+perlmonkey2mech422: I think the WaPo had an article of the 15 worst financially governed states, and I'm fairly certain AZ had a higher % of debt than cali.18:47
+perlmonkey2nope, cnbc18:49
mech422hmm - so are they handing out iou's in 4 weeks ?18:49
+perlmonkey2no way, the feds will jump in at the last moment.18:50
mech422eh - cali's like the 9th largest economy in the world... I think the feds will just let us twist in the wind till we figure it out18:51
+perlmonkey2The required bailout would be smaller than GM got.18:51
+perlmonkey2hold up, trying to get to the numbers in the cnbc slideshow.  hard to do while downloading kde on a 768kbps connection :P18:52
+perlmonkey2$15billion shortfall in cali.  Small fraction of the auto bailouts.  With $300billion in revenues, how is that even possible?18:55
mech422ask arney :-P18:56
+perlmonkey2Cali's 2010 budget is 22% short and Arizona's is 28% short.  For 2009, Cali also has a 6% edge in fiscal responsibility :D18:56
mech4226% ?  I'll deal with it :-P18:57
mech422and its the stuff that gets cut that bugs me...18:58
+perlmonkey22010 California isn't so bad being in 6th worst place, but I think they made the news cause 2009 they are really bad off compared to everyone else.18:58
+perlDreamermech422, then the media is slandering California.  It says the governator is like getting ready to declare bankruptcy18:58
mech422like schools - summer school's have cut their second session already - regardless of what happens with the budget18:58
+perlmonkey2mech422: wait you mean the people who got the state into this fiscal mess aren't being responsible in how they cut spending?  Say it an't so :P18:59
mech422perlDreamer: ?  As far as I know, he is ?  He likes to play 'hard ball' ... so he'll shut the whole state down just to get crap rushed thru18:59
mech422perlmonkey2: touche!18:59
+perlmonkey2I think it is a strategic move by policy makers.  The cons are risking their seats, but if they scare people enough, getting tax increases through becomes much easier.18:59
mech422too be honest - I really feel he's brought too much 'hollywood' to the govenorship19:00
mech422and I'm sick of him shortchanging schools19:00
+perlmonkey2If we don't raise taxes we'll have to start selling children to the dog food factories!!  19:01
mech422for instance - when I moved out here 10 years ago - Mesa arizona spent $100 more per student per year - and arney has made it even worse...19:01
mech422(oh more then cupertino californa - home of apple and 6 figure salaries, as opposed to mesa's then $35K median income )19:02
+perlmonkey2yeah, I only trust the politicians who say the first thing we need to do is hire 10x as many inspectors and auditors.  Which means I don't trust any politicians.19:02
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+perlDreamerman, it is so odd to write method calls _inside_ WebGUI::Session19:04
+perlDreamermy fingers are trained to type $session->var19:04
+perlDreamerand typing $self->var just looks odd19:04
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: you're hacking session?19:05
+perlDreamerit does need to be bug fixed every now and then19:05
+perlmonkey2how do you keep from cracking under the pressure?  one mistake and you take down half the internets :P19:06
+perlDreamerwell, having done it already does help19:06
+perlDreamerIt was the great Form fiasco of 200619:06
+perlDreamerwe have this thing called the Text form19:06
+perlDreamerI broke that19:06
+perlmonkey2bah, who even uses that :P19:07
+perlDreamerI know19:07
+perlmonkey2mech422: I know how to solve all the country's fiscal problems.  Give the GAO power to direct the DoJ or at least create Grand Juries.  Boom, done.  Overnight everything instantly fixed, or at least exposed to lots of sunlight.19:09
mech422Hmm - I dont know...19:18
mech422wouldn't that just make the GAO auditors the new 'crooked politicians' ?19:18
+perlmonkey2mech422: maybe in the future, but right now I think the ranks of beurocrats that inhabit that place are pretty hard core patriots trying to dig out corruption and expose it.  Else why work there, being an accountant in the market pays much better.19:21
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mech422permonkey2: heh - I've always thought that to be part of the problem - given govt. salaries, the best and brightest would naturally tend to gravitate around more lucrative, private positions19:37
mech422perlmonkey2: leading me to doubt either the abilities or the motives of the people that actually take the jobs...19:38
CIA-44WebGUI: colin * r11421 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix the form for the Product. It was returning variants with no quantity.19:38
mech422but to be honest, I've only really been exposed to state workers - not federal employees19:38
mech422authorize.net is down ?19:39
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+perlmonkey2mech422: kde is way cooler than I thought it would be.  I don't even know why Gnome exists anymore let alone is the default windowing system.20:38
mech422perlmonkey2: sorry man - if that was saracasm it went undetected :-)20:39
mech422or maybe I'm just so used to it I take it for granted ?20:39
@preactionKDE is imho where Gnome should be trying to go in terms of customizability and features20:41
@preactionGnome is so focused on usability that they seem to miss new features that could help them reach their usability goal20:41
mech422[10:17] <Lenolium> Gnome has a bunch of standalone apps, KDE actually has integration.20:41
mech422[10:17] <Lenolium> Konqueror is fast but stupid.20:41
mech422that seems to be my feeling as well - kde has integration.. 20:42
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@preactionintegration is good though, see OS X20:42
perlmonkey21mech422: missed that last, kde locked up on me20:42
mech422btw - a friend just asked about gnome vs kde for his new install - he got kde 3-to-0 as the answer...20:43
mech422perlmonkey21: really ? wow - thats odd ? the app or the whole desktop ?20:43
@preactionthere's no simple app to get photos off of a camera, you use iPhoto, which also has editing built-in20:43
perlmonkey21mech422: the whole desktop20:43
perlmonkey21couldn't even ctrl-alt # into a non-x term.20:43
mech422perlmonkey21: are you on kde 3 or kde 4 ?20:43
perlmonkey21mech422: fedora 11 kde or whatever it is.20:44
perlmonkey21latest stable I think20:44
mech422ahh - can't help there - I don't do RH - I'm more of a debian man20:44
mech422donna is running kunbuntu with kde 4.2 in a virtual box - no problems20:45
mech422I'm running (*cry*) 3.X in a virtual box20:45
mech422neither of us has had lock ups though ?20:46
mech422perlmonkey21: btw - do you really like kde or was the early comment meant as sarcasm?  Maybe I just take kde for granted now ?20:46
perlmonkey21mech422: no, it is way slicker than I thought it was going to be.  Puts gnome to shame.20:47
perlmonkey21But QT is just a nicer looking library than Gtk and also 100x easier to work with.20:47
mech422heh - cool - glad you like it :-)  20:47
mech422I find KDE really good for my day to day stuff20:47
perlmonkey21hmm, not hotkey to make konsole window full size, it is either full screen or nothing.20:48
mech422?  isn't full size == full screen ?20:48
perlmonkey21well I just want the window made its max size, full screen means it is the only things showing with the bottom panel covered up.20:49
mech422btw - you can add 'decorators' to the windows - I think there's 'slots' for up to 6 of them ?20:49
perlmonkey21actually let me check again, I'm not used to it being down there and might have misunderstood what happened.20:49
perlmonkey21nope, it covers up the panel20:49
mech422the panel can autohide too if that helps20:49
perlmonkey21no, I like it down there.20:50
mech422in 3.5 it does what you want20:50
perlmonkey21usually have my network machine monitors there20:50
mech422so there is prolly an option for it in the settings somewhere ?20:50
mech422my 'maximize' decorator does it20:50
perlmonkey21what is the maximize hotkey?20:51
mech422(btw - you can change the decorators on the border - you know close, minimize,maximize)20:51
mech422lemme look in the settings and see if there's a keyboard shortcut20:51
perlmonkey21hah, you can drag desktop widgets into the panel and they have a panel mod.e20:54
perlmonkey21too much fun.20:54
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mech422perlmonkey: live desktop previews in the pager are nice too :-)20:55
mech422perlmonkey21: you can get more 'plasmoids' (desktop widgets) from www.kde-look.org20:56
mech422can find a shortcut for maximize though - just the window decorators20:56
mech422its un-assigned in my version20:57
mech422you can assign it in control panel->regional and accesibility->keyboard shortcuts20:58
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perlmonkey22pager locked itup.  I guess no compiz for me in kde20:58
mech422oh no...20:58
mech422no 20:58
mech422use the builtin schtuff20:58
mech422sorry - I should have thought of that20:59
mech422I don't think it plays nice with compiz20:59
perlmonkey22well I turned the compiz settings down last time.20:59
perlmonkey22although the kde menus don't even mention the name compiz, just call it desktop effects.20:59
mech422I'd actually turn it off (remove the module?)20:59
perlmonkey22Probably asking too much from an intel g50 vid.20:59
mech422yeah - kde has a builtin effects/compositing engine21:00
mech422nah - it was designed for use on even 2d cards :-)21:00
mech422that was one of the big selling points of using it instead of compiz21:00
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mech422'plasma' should be much lighter and snappier, and support older  cards better21:01
perlmonkey22hmm, so in desktop settings turning on effects turns on plasma and not compiz?21:03
mech422Umm - I didn't think compiz was an option... but I would definately use plasma21:03
perlmonkey22then it must be plasma which is locking up21:03
mech422but you still have compiz running from your gnome session don't you ?21:04
* mech422 is confused ?21:04
mech422our machines don't even have compiz installed - so I'm not quite sure what optiosn your getting ?21:04
perlmonkey22mech422: nope, no gnome sessions running21:05
mech422not gnome - compiz? it used to hook into x11.conf and have its own daemon and crap didn't it ?21:05
perlmonkey22well I have gnome-keyring and gdm-simple-slave21:05
mech422actually - gnome is fine - its compiz I think is a problem21:05
perlmonkey22But I think those are both fro the login screen.21:05
perlmonkey22compiz isn't running21:06
mech422you can run gnome apps inside kde (and kde apps inside gnome)21:06
mech422I do that with stuff like Gimp21:06
mech422ok - so no compiz, plasma turned on - do you have 'full' eye candy or did you tone it down any ?21:07
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perlmonkey22mech422: I started with full eye candy.  toned it down.  then turned it off21:08
mech422hmm - donna had 'desktop effects' disabled in hers :-P21:09
mech422ahh - the 'all effects' tab...21:09
mech422last I checked - some of the effects were a bit flaky (they are plugins)21:09
mech422I had these working fine: explosion, fade, magic lamp, transluceny, wobbly windows21:11
mech422desktop cube, cover switch, and one of the 'live preview' pager thingys21:12
mech422oh! on advanced - we have compositing type 'openGL'21:13
+perlDreamermech422: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/0rigp6NJ3Ks/Seattle-Data-Center-Outage-Disrupts-E-Commerce21:18
mech422yeah - authorize is getting hammered - a fire in the NOC, and the backups failed ?21:19
mech422looks like they're coming back on line now according to their twitter stream21:21
mech422perlmonkey22: 'desktop grid' is a nifty effect21:23
mech422sorta like a extra-large 'live preview'21:24
perlmonkey22mech422: not going to try effects again.  last time I had desktop effects locking up I had an ex2 corruption that was only resolved with a fresh install.21:32
mech422dam man - you are having a ton of problems21:36
mech422sorry bout that - I haven't had any issues to speak of :-(21:37
perlmonkey22with effects turned off things are working just fine.  no worries.21:39
mech422heh - donna likes the eye candy - but I'm still on 3.521:43
mech422btw - _this is cool_ - http://basket.kde.org :-)21:44
mech422if you like 'oneNote' or ad-hoc 'association' programs, basket is awesome :-)21:44
mech422but last I checked it wasn't ready for kde4 :-(21:45
mech422the really cool thing was being able to 'attach' files to your baskets...21:46
perlmonkey22wow, that is pretty cool21:50
mech422perlmonkey22: yeah - there's a nice time tracker too21:56
mech422fire up 'kontact' and poke around a bit - its a pretty good outlook/evolution type app21:56
mech422I need sleep21:57
mech422I got 2 hours last night, then couldn't sleep :-(21:57
mech422perlmonkey22: I'll be back later :-)  Save up any questions for me :-)21:57
perlmonkey22mech422: groovy, thanks :)22:03
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mech422perlmonkey22: Hmm - kde 4.2.4 is out and supposedly much nicer then 4.2.2 (at least on debian...)23:08
mech422perlmonkey22: maybe upgrading to 4.2.4 or 4.3rc1 would help ?23:08
+perlDreamermech422, I thought you were asleep23:31
mech422perlmonkey22: http://userbase.kde.org/GPU-Performance23:51
mech422perlDreamer: yeah - I thought so too :-P23:51
mech422its not quite insomnia - but my sleep schedule seems to be getting really really whack23:51
+perlDreamerthat's not healthy, dude23:54
* perlDreamer recommends a strong dose caffeine, then go to bed at 11:00pm23:54
+perlDreamersleep until 7:00 the next day23:54
mech422heh - 7 pm you mean ?  I've had 2 hours sleep since what - 3pm yesterday ?  going to 11pm would result in a coma :-P23:55
--- Day changed Sat Jul 04 2009
+perlDreamerno, sleep 8 hours a day.  11:00pm to 7:00am00:04
* perlDreamer moonlights as a doctor00:05
+perlDreameris it bad if you laptop starts smelling hot, like solder?00:06
SquOnkperlDreamer: Not if you have a rare steak near00:28
+perlDreamerSquOnk, you'd ruin a good steak with solder?00:29
SquOnkperlDreamer: Smear some bbq and you won't notice00:30
SquOnkBesides, you haven't had steak until you've had an argentinian steak00:30
* SquOnk will be cooking a "parrillada" argentinian style tomorrow00:37
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+perlDreamerlater, everyone00:51
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elninoHappy 4th everyone! Bye06:35
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11422 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (Wobject/StoryTopic.pm Wobject.pm Story.pm): 20:22
CIA-46WebGUI: Fix POD to increase POD coverage, mainly by fixing typos and removing20:22
CIA-46WebGUI: unused code.20:22
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11423 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Crud.pm Shop/Transaction.pm FilePump/Bundle.pm): Add missing POD, or fix POD typos which caused coverage to be low.20:38
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11424 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm Account/Shop.pm): More POD fixes.20:38
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11425 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku.pm: Add missing POD for Tax.20:38
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11426 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Poll.pm: Add missing POD.22:08
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11427 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Poll.pm: Use as many autogenerated form fields as possible.22:38
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11428 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/PayDriver/ (PayPal.pm Ogone.pm): Fix POD capitalization.22:53
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+perlDreamerHappy 4th of July, everyone!23:22
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11429 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Add missing POD and fix POD typos in subroutine names. 30/441 failing 100% POD coverage.23:23
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11430 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (FilePile.pm Template.pm): Add missing POD to these assets.23:37
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11431 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Image/Graph/ (XYGraph/Line.pm Pie.pm XYGraph.pm XYGraph/Bar.pm): Add missing POD to WebGUI::Image and child classes, and fix any POD typos that affect coverage.23:53
--- Day changed Sun Jul 05 2009
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11432 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm: Add missing POD to Layout.00:07
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11433 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/PayDriver/PayPal/PayPalStd.pm: Add missing POD to PayPalStd.00:07
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11434 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/InOutBoard.pm: Add missing POD. Refactor to use the definition to draw the edit form.00:22
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11435 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Product.pm: Add missing to the Product.00:52
+perlDreamerAnybody mind if I watch Airwolf?01:16
+perlDreamerI can turn down the volume if it's too loud01:17
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11436 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/PayDriver/ITransact.pm: Add missing POD to ITransact02:22
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11437 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Graphics.pm: Add missing pod to Operation/Graphics.02:22
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11438 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration/Newsletter.pm: 02:37
CIA-46WebGUI: Remove methods that are copy/paste from the skeleton, and add missing POD02:37
CIA-46WebGUI: to the Newsletter.02:37
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11439 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/PerformanceProfiler.pm: Add missing POD to PerformanceProfiler.03:08
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11440 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (File.pm File/Image.pm): 03:52
CIA-46WebGUI: Add POD missing from File and Image. Remove duplicate code in Image that03:52
CIA-46WebGUI: can be inherited from File.03:52
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11441 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/ (HttpProxy.pm HttpProxy/Parse.pm): Add missing POD to the HttpProxy03:52
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11442 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm: Add POD missing from the WikiPage. 12/441 files left04:07
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11443 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.pm: Add POD missing from WikiMaster06:27
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11444 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm: Fix a POD whitespace issue in the WikiPage.06:55
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11445 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm: Add missing POD to the Post.06:55
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11446 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm: Add POD for some methods in the Thread.07:09
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chimpbabwesick of fat, ugly, dog-faced bitches constantly running their mouths?09:16
chimpbabwego to www.cumshotonherface.com09:16
chimpbabwesee girls who are actually easy on the eyes09:16
chimpbabweand know what god gave them their mouths for09:16
chimpbabwefor worshipping cock09:16
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+perlDreamerIf anyone is bored today, I have a core project that I could use some help on.19:23
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11447 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm: Add missing POD, and fix POD typos in the Thread.19:41
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11448 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Dashboard.pm: Add missing POD to Dashboard 8/44119:56
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11449 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/AssetCollateral/DataForm/Entry.pm: Add missing POD in DataForm::Entry20:09
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11450 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/AssetCollateral/DataForm/Entry.pm: Fix a bug in AssetCollateral/DataForm/Entry with renameField.20:23
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11451 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/lib/WebGUI/AssetCollateral/DataForm/Entry.pm: Backportind DataForm entry bugfix.20:23
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11452 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm: Add some of the POD missing from the Shortcut.22:09
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11453 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm: Add the remainder of the missing POD for the Shortcut.22:38
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11454 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Group.pm t/Group.t): Have just 1 list of groups that should not be deleted.23:53
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11455 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 23:53
CIA-46WebGUI: Unify the list of protected groups into Group->vitalGroup. Refactor23:53
CIA-46WebGUI: WebGUI::Test and Operation/Group to use that list.23:53
--- Day changed Mon Jul 06 2009
+perlDreamer5 more modules to go...00:04
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11456 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Group.pm: Add the missing POD, and fix broken POD that I just committed.00:07
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@tavistohowdy, happy 4th of July06:02
+perlDreameryou, too, dude.06:02
@tavistoi still have large fireworks going off in my neighborhood06:02
Radix_you guys still partying?06:02
@tavistoI celebrated today by firing off about 8-10 different guns with a bunch of friends of mie06:02
+perlDreamerare you lighting them, or is it the neighbors?06:03
Radix_it's like the 6th july here06:03
@tavistonot me.. someone in my neighborhood. There are 165 houses in my neighborhood so not sure06:03
@tavistoIt's July 5th right now.. in 1 hour it'll be the 6th cuz I'm EDT06:03
Radix_anything bigger than a sparkler here is illegal :(06:03
@tavistothe rule of thumb is that many places stagger their fireworks shows so that they aren't all at the same time06:04
@tavistoso some do it Friday, some do it Saturday, and others do it tonight06:04
Radix_cool.. happy 4th july for you guys anyway :)06:04
Radix_our celebrations are january 26th - australia day ;)06:04
@tavistoand in Michigan we can't have any of the big fun fireworks... Against state law... So people to go neighboring states and smuggle them into Michigan :)06:05
@tavistoI see... I'll try and remember that06:05
+perlDreamerThey're just upholding the fine tradition of rebellion and challenging laws06:05
+perlDreamer"Because that' taxation without representation, and that's not fair."06:05
@preactionmost states have those same laws: you can't purchase fireworks in the state, but you can purchase them outside and bring them in06:06
@preaction(wisconsin has one too, at least)06:07
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11457 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm: 06:27
CIA-46WebGUI: Add missing POD. Also, do not call methods from Wobject that are inherited from06:27
CIA-46WebGUI: Asset.06:27
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CIA-46WebGUI: doug * r11458 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Auth/LDAP.pm: Added POD to WebGUI::Auth::LDAP06:42
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11459 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/User.pm: Add missing POD for Operation/User.pm06:55
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11460 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataForm.pm: Add 40% to POD coverage in DataForm.07:10
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11461 /WebGUI/t/POD.t: Add POD_COVERAGE==3 switch to find empty POD blocks.07:10
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11462 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Add the missing Map icons.07:53
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11463 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm: Fix mistakes in POD for Storage.pm07:53
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+perlDreamerHow 'bout you, stDavid.  Want to help us reach 100% Pod coverage for WebGUI?07:55
stDavidSure pD... Now? 07:57
+perlDreamerPod::Coverage has a bug.  If won't work propertly if the package declaration does not match the file name and path.07:57
+perlDreamerSo Asset.pm, AssetTrash.pm, et. al. register as missing POD.07:57
+perlDreamerI have a small test case that exposes the bug, but I'm sure that it would be fixed more quickly with a patch.07:58
+perlDreamerYou up for taking a look at it?07:58
+perlDreamerThis weekend, I hand added missing POD for 39 modules.  Doug ponied up for writing one, too.07:59
stDavidActually I was on my way to bed (EST here). My son gets me up pretty early in the morning. But tomorrow I've got some time mid-day if that works...08:00
* perlDreamer didn't know you had children08:01
stDavidOne 11 year-old... We're working on a robotics project this summer together for a Carnegie Mellon program. He keeps me VERY busy08:03
stDavidHence the early wake-up calls08:03
+perlDreameryeah, early sucks, but helping make robots with you son, that's priceless.08:03
stDavidWouldn't trade it for anything. You have 2 kids?08:04
+perlDreameryeah, two boys.  8 and 1008:04
stDavid(sometimes) wish they would stay that age forever08:04
stDavidbut, as they get older, there are more things you can do with them08:05
stDavidthe trick is to stay close to them08:05
+perlDreameryes.  It's not easy to do.08:05
stDavidno, it's not, but08:05
stDavidalways must try08:06
stDavidWell, I'm off to bed. I'll buzz you when I get a couple of free hours tomorrow. (You really wrote 39 POD's this weekend?)08:07
+perlDreameryeah, check the svn history.08:08
+perlDreamerI didn't have to write them all,08:08
+perlDreamerjust the missing ones08:08
+perlDreamerI type very fast08:08
stDavidI believe you, just makes my hands sweaty thinking about it though. Writing any documentation is beyond valor IMHO. 08:09
+perlDreamerthanks :)08:10
stDavidYW - ttyl08:10
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11464 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataForm.pm: Add the rest of the missing POD to the DataForm.08:37
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Radix_morning bart11:29
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+bartjolhey colin17:41
+perlDreamerHey, bartjol!17:41
+perlDreamerHow are you doing this week?17:41
+bartjolI was wondering something regarding internationalization17:41
+perlDreamerWhat is it?17:41
+bartjolwell in march I had a small conversation with JT17:41
+bartjolon setting the language of a setting17:42
+bartjolmy proposal was to use a scratch variable17:42
+bartjolwhich he was ok with17:42
+bartjolif it was documented and API'd17:42
+bartjolthat is actually not the hard part17:43
+bartjolwhen the Internationalization partt gets the language17:43
+bartjolwith thegetLanguage method17:43
@Haargthe language of a setting?17:43
+bartjolsorry, session17:44
+bartjolmy bad17:44
+bartjolokl, during the retrieval, the language is given as a parameter17:45
+bartjolto that method17:45
+bartjolmy question is:17:45
+bartjolwhat would be better, give the language as a parameter, or let the getLanguage method figure out what language to get17:46
@Haargwhat do you want to accomplish with per-session languages?17:46
+perlDreamerI think the end goal is for a Visitor to choose their preferred language, without having an account17:46
+bartjolwell, that a visitor user can read the i18n text in they're own language17:46
+perlmonkey2hmm, I'm not liking how I'm reregistering session's crypt object every time the encryption provider changes.  What if the crypt object kept in memory members of each provider as it was used.  Since once it is used it is likely to be used quite a bit?17:46
+bartjollike: if you can't read the text: "register here", how can you expect people to register17:47
@Haargmy plan for wg8 is that visitor (at least) will base the language on the http request headers17:47
+bartjolwell, but thgat means there will be an extra variable somewhere, instead of the visitors profile language17:48
+bartjolwhich is ok, but if I am in the states, I still might wat to read duitch text17:49
+bartjolso you want to be able to change it17:49
@Haargeither way, it will work quite differently in 817:50
+bartjolso they don't bite each other, but complete each other17:50
@Haarglanguage is going to have a different api around it and probably won't be a user profile field17:50
+bartjolalso not when logged in?17:50
+perlDreamerwhat would it be instead, Haarg?17:50
@Haarglikely directly in the user table17:51
@Haargwe could easily have a scratch variable as part of that api17:51
+bartjolwell, at the moment, that should not be too hard either17:52
+bartjolbut, for the sake of my knowledge, let's go back to my original question17:52
+bartjolthe exercise of making it, will be obsolete17:52
@Haargyeah, we could add what you are proposing in 7.817:53
+perlDreamerbartjol, from reading International.pm, the scratch variable needs to be in two places17:54
+bartjolpro for the embedding in the getLanguage method is, that you don't have to make a language variable each time you call the getlanguage method17:54
+perlDreamersub get, and sub makeUrlCompliant17:55
@Haargi would think the best way to do it would be to have International->new just pull from an additional source when getting defaults17:55
@HaargmakeUrlCompliant should be adjusted anyway.  it wasn't adjusted along with the rest of the methods17:56
@Haarg->{_language} will always exist now so there is no reason for it to try to pull defaults17:56
+perlDreamerI see your point about putting it in new.  It's not likely to change mid-request17:57
@Haargeven if it were, it would be the same as the user changing their language17:58
@Haargand i18n objects don't stay around for the whole request17:58
+perlDreamernot yet, anyway :)18:00
@Haargwe could possibly change that in 7.8.  as long as things to according to plan the 8.0 api will be procedural.18:03
+bartjolwell, that sounds nic18:06
+bartjolso in overview:18:09
+bartjolthe I18n module gets a variable setLanguageScratchVar18:09
+bartjoland the method new finds out what the value is, if not it defaults to the profile language (at the moment)18:10
@Haargsomething like that18:10
+bartjolnot a vraiable, but a method18:10
+bartjolwhich sets a scratch variable language18:11
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+perlmonkey2Woah, with state and federal tax credits, looks like those small open air electric vehicles springing up everywhere are *free* after all the rebates are finished: http://www.adaeveningnews.com/local/local_story_176122627.html19:34
+perlDreamergoing to buy one?19:37
+perlDreamerand what's the charging time?19:37
+perlmonkey2might especially if they are free.  Everywhere I go is pretty much in range 10x over with those things.19:40
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: 6 12V batteries in series so 72V at ~30AH.  So 2.2KwH.  ~$.15 to completely fill up.  19:43
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: I'd think the larger problem is they use normal golf cart batteries.  Lucky to get 500 charges before replacing them.19:48
+perlmonkey2But I guess that's a few years of normal daily use.19:49
+perlDreamerhow long is a charge?19:49
+perlmonkey230 miles they say.19:49
+perlmonkey2at 25mph.19:49
+perlDreamerah, how long to recharge?19:49
+perlDreamer8 hours, 12 hours?19:50
+perlmonkey22KwH....just limited on how fast the batteries can safely take a charge.  4-8 hour range I'd guess.19:50
+perlDreamerand will they plug into a windmill?19:50
+perlDreamerI was looking into building a solar charger for my lawnmower19:50
+perlDreamerbut it takes about 5 cents to recharge it19:50
+perlmonkey2that'd be pretty cool.19:50
+perlDreamerand the cells cost a lot19:50
+perlDreamerI've seen homemade recharging rigs costing about $10019:51
+perlDreamerwhich is a long time for breakeven19:51
+perlmonkey2yeah, I have set $.07KwH power or could get it as low as $.04KwH if I wanted to stop using power between 2-7pm.19:51
+perlmonkey2Getting it anywhere except the grid is not going to be making you money.19:52
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: talked to my brother who's a Mercedes mechanic.  Does a ton of welding on hot rods in his shop.  Set me straight on welders.  Said a simple small wire welder from a big box store will do anything I'm likely to need.  Just looking at reviews online to see which box store to get it from.19:55
+perlDreamerthat's been a stopping point for a long time19:55
+perlmonkey2yeah, kept going to auctions, which are fun, but I'd see the nice welders going for kilobucks.  I have to many hobbies to drop kilobucks on any given one :P19:56
+perlmonkey2and I've discovered the steel/metal recycling place.  It is a wonderland for anyone who contemplates what exactly a welder means.19:57
+perlDreamernice :)19:58
+perlDreamerwhat's the correct way to write this in bash: for file in (Asset*.pm); do perl -I /data/WebGUI/lib/ -wc %; done20:01
+perlDreamerseems like it is for file in Asset.*.pm; do perl -I /data/WebGUI/lib -wc $file; done20:03
+perlmonkey2bash knows what to do with 'Asset.*.pm' ?20:05
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11465 /WebGUI/ (19 files in 11 dirs): 20:11
CIA-46WebGUI: Provide a framework for CSRF protection, with tests.20:11
CIA-46WebGUI: Add CSRF protection to Asset editSave, AssetManager, VersionTags and Group operations.20:11
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dionakanyone online familiar with the survey asset?20:24
+perlDreamerI hear that perlmonkey2 is20:25
+perlDreamerbut patspam is the most recent developer of it20:25
dionaki'm trying to setup ranking questions and don't see how to do it. I need responders to rank a list of values so i'll know if pricing is more important than features, for instance. 20:25
dionakthanks, pd. 20:25
dionakperlmonkey2, are you available?20:26
dionakok, thanks. I've emailed Pat20:33
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11466 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (7 files in 2 dirs): 20:38
CIA-46WebGUI: Automatically add a token to any autogenerated form.20:38
CIA-46WebGUI: Refactor previous commits to take advantage of that.20:38
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David___Hello i have a question, what is the best way to migrate from windows webgui to linux20:41
+perlDreamercopy your config file20:42
+perlDreameryour database file20:42
+perlDreamerand your uploads directory20:42
David___i have tried porting the uploads directory as well as a dump from the database but i don't get all my content the same way20:42
@Haargwhat problems do you run into?20:42
David___most of it is there, but not all20:42
David___some of my pictures are missing20:42
@Haargsome of the files appear to be missing?20:42
David___yes..apper is the right word20:43
@Haargwhat version are you using20:43
David___windows 7.4.40 stable20:43
David___i need to go to linux latetst webgui version20:43
@Haargin the uploads directories there are a bunch of 2 character directories, and under those more 2 character directories20:44
David___that is correct20:45
@Haargthe problem is that on windows, the file system is case insensitive, so some of those directories can get combined when they shouldn't20:45
@Haargthe third level directories that are 22 characters long should have the correct case20:45
@Haargand the first two levels are created using characters 1-2 and 3-4 of that 22 character id20:45
@Haargso if you know some shell or perl scripting you can move them to the correct paths20:46
@Haargsomewhere i have a script to do that but i don't know where20:46
David___i am very limited on shell , and no knowledge on perl20:47
David___sorry i m newbie on this20:47
@Haargafter transfering the files to the linux machine, run20:50
@Haargperl fixUploadsCase.pl /data/domains/www.site.com/public/uploads20:50
+perlDreamerHaarg, can I stick that on the Bazaar?20:51
David___ok.. i 'll try it20:51
@HaargperlDreamer, there is also http://haarg.org/convert_storage.pl20:52
@Haargwhich is not set up for use on a live site, but shows the concept20:52
@Haargmoving from base64 to hex directories20:52
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+perlDreamerhaarg, what would be the difference between the 2?20:53
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11467 /WebGUI/t/Form.t: Check for generation of the csrf token.20:53
+perlDreamerpidgin crashed20:53
@Haarg[12:52:16]  <Haarg> perlDreamer, there is also http://haarg.org/convert_storage.pl20:53
@Haarg[12:52:32]  <Haarg> which is not set up for use on a live site, but shows the concept20:53
@Haarg[12:52:55]  <Haarg> moving from base64 to hex directories20:53
+perlDreamerand must be used with what version of WebGUI?20:54
@Haargthe first is for correcting the case problems, the second for moving to hex encoding20:54
@Haargcurrently we support both20:54
@Haargall new storage locations are created as hex20:54
@Haargbut if a hex location doesn't exist it will check for a base64 version20:55
@Haargi think 7.6 is when that change happened20:55
+perlDreamerhow much do you want for it, Haarg?21:15
@Haargif you're willing to clean it up you can do with it whatever you please21:16
+perlDreamersince you can only put in dollars, and not more useful things like karma, beer or pizza, I'll just put them there for people to download21:24
ckotilheh. 21:55
+perlDreamerthere are people, real people, who can eat food by themselves, right?22:07
* perlDreamer is despairing of having a nice meal with adults22:08
+perlDreameror at least people who don't talk with their mouth stuffed full of food22:08
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+perlDreamersorry, preaction22:46
@preactionWHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO ME?22:50
+perlDreamerIt's one bug per week, dude22:50
+perlDreamerKind of like Klinger and the pins22:51
+perlDreamerJust sign my Section 8 papers22:51
@bopbopoh goodie, you gave him my bug!22:52
+perlDreamerDo you have any other bugs that I need to assign to preaction?22:53
@preactionat first I was like "LOL" but then, I srsed22:54
@bopbopthere's the edit field in thing22:54
@bopbopbut I'm not sure that's for him22:54
+perlDreamerno, that's either Yung or a generic bug fixer22:54
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11468 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Allow snippets to be really empty, without showing the Page Not Found screen.22:54
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11469 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Backporting snippet fix.22:54
+perlDreamerwhat is "srs"ed, preaction?22:55
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@preactionit's the opposite of this: http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/i-lold.jpg22:57
SDuensinLikely old news for you guys:  http://www.cmswire.com/cms/web-cms/open-source-web-content-management-for-retailers-003948.php23:19
* perlDreamer goes on an errand23:19
@preactiondamn them. i thought that was the best thing evar23:20
SDuensinI did.  :-)23:20
SDuensinI posted a nice comment for that article.  Hopefully it goes up soon.23:20
@preactionmaybe we just like cheesy things23:22
SDuensinI also just got off the phone with a guy who does a lot of custom hosting and development.  Was working hard to sell him on WebGUI.  He'll be calling back in about 30 minutes to learn more.23:22
@preactionit's great to have people to share the excitement with. it just keeps getting more and more exciting, and more people need to share!23:23
SDuensinSpeaking of sharing, it'd sure be nice to get that VFS WebDAV into the main release...  :-P23:23
@preactiondon't worry, it's coming, be patient23:24
SDuensinJust being the squeaky wheel.  Hint, hint.  :-D23:24
David___Hey Haarg. i did what you suggested and it ran moving some files but in other i get Use of uninitialized value $part1 in string ne at fixUploadsCase.pl line 7.23:25
David___Use of uninitialized value $realPart1 in string ne at fixUploadsCase.pl line 7.23:25
SDuensinI'd give you all my karma for it, but that's almost insulting.  (I only have 830!)23:25
David___and the images are still missing23:25
@preactionwe can't release any features until we branch for new development, which won't be until 7.7 goes stable23:25
@Haargyou ran it with the full uploads path as a paramater?23:25
@preactionso if you want new features to come sooner, we need all the bugs currently reported fixed23:25
SDuensinYea, I know that.  Type faster!23:25
David___yes .. just like you sent it to me23:25
David___perl fixUploadsCase.pl /data/domains/www2/public/uploads23:26
David___can it be the different versions of webgui?23:26
@Haargshouldn't be23:27
@Haargwhat do you get from ls /data/domains/www2/public/uploads ?23:27
David___a list with all the 2 digit folders23:28
David___is there anyway for me to import packages of data from the old to the new webgui?23:30
@Haargasset data yes23:30
David___i have tried that but when the file is bigger than 60 meg. it fails23:31
@Haarghttp://gist.github.com/141659 try this script23:31
David___same parameters?23:34
David___not able to work with /data/domains/www2/public/uploads/00/64/00646e0feb54aa98d4862c618ac9fcac23:35
@Haargare you sure you are using 7.4.40?23:35
@Haargor did you mean you upgraded after moving it to linux?23:36
David___ok.. sorry for the dumb question.. should i be running this on the old server before moving the public folder?23:36
@Haargyou'd need to move it to the linux server first23:36
@Haargbut you'd want to run the script before doing any upgrades etc23:37
David___ok. what i did was i copy the public folder and the sql file to the new webgui23:37
David___and i m running the script on the new box23:37
@Haargthat should work fine23:38
David___that's where i get the erros23:38
@Haargwhen you first ran the script, did you see lots of warnings about uninitialized variables?23:39
@Haargor only a few23:39
David___only a few23:39
David___it did the mv to a lot of them23:39
@Haargbecause those paths should only exist if you were running a newer version23:39
@Haarghttp://haarg.org/fixUploadsCase.pl i've fixed the script to avoid those paths it can't deal with23:39
@Haargthe next thing would be after running the script, look at some specific cases of it not working properly23:41
David___ok the script run without anything happen23:43
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David___i am going to check the specific cases23:43
@Haargthat should be because it already fixed what it could on the first run23:43
David___the images are there.. but no luck on finding them 23:47
David___i get a couple of errors on modproxy and webgui23:47
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@Haargwell, take an example image that is missing and try to find it on the filesystem23:47
@Haargand compare the urls23:48
David___well paths are the same, and the files are  there.  but asset manager can't find it23:54
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David___does anybody know how to import files bigger than 100 mb ?00:12
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+perlDreamerYUI 3.0.0 beta 1 released00:25
SDuensinI'd be a lot more excited about YUI if someone had a decent layout tool for it.00:29
+perlDreamermaybe you could swap rizen a nifty YUI layout tool in exchange for a webdav implementation?00:38
SDuensinDude, I've been mulling a VisualBasic-for-WebGUI type thing over in my head for some time now.00:40
@preactionthere is a YUI Grid Layout tool on the web, it might be able to be ported to WebGUI00:41
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CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r11470 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_AdSku.pm AssetAspect_RssFeed.pm): Update from translation server00:53
+perlDreamer1they should have been using WebGUI: http://lwn.net/Articles/340130/00:59
+perlmonkey2holy crap, it is already 5?  where did my day go?01:01
+perlDreamer1daydreaming about windmills, wire welders and electric cars?01:01
+perlmonkey2no, working hard01:03
+perlmonkey2makes time pass too fast01:03
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sbaurHi Everyone!01:16
sbaurAre the nightly builds that used to be available at http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds/ still available somewhere?01:16
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sbaurthanks preaction, i'll submit a bug for the bad link on the source installs page01:17
+perlDreamer'bout time that impostor got out of here01:17
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@Haargsbaur, what do you use the nightlies for?  we were having a discussion the other day about them and were having trouble coming up with a solid use case for them.01:18
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sbaurusually just to do a quick visual diff on a specific file on a specific version to see if we might be running a modified file that never made it into our version control. 01:21
sbaurit's a lot faster than grabbing the tar.gz, untarring it and then checking the file01:22
* perlmonkey2 is moments away from having working encryption of database tables/fields in webgui. fueled by granola bars and keystone light, this unholy concoction of openssl and webgui is about to come to life.01:25
@Haargcould looking at the file in the vcs do the same for you sbaur?01:27
sbaurhaarg: if there's a tag or something that will get me to a specific version01:28
sbaurtoday i was looking at 7.5.40 stuff01:28
+perlDreamersbaur, tags in SVN are like directories01:28
sbaurthat would work then01:28
@Haargi still don't have all of the tags done in git, though that is planned01:28
+perlDreameryou can use SVN::Web to browse to it, then download the copy that you want01:29
+perlDreameror just remove the svnweb stuff to grab the file you want with svn cat (I think)01:29
@Haargit's not that we are looking to get rid of nightlies, just trying to understand if there's something we could be doing better with the version control stuff01:29
+perlDreamersvn cat https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/releases/WebGUI_7.5.40-stable01:30
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11471 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt www/extras/wobject/Thingy/thingy.js): Refix rendering problem with add/edit field dialog in Thingy.01:38
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11472 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt www/extras/wobject/Thingy/thingy.js): Backport Thingy add/edit field dialog fix for height.01:38
sbaurHaarg: basically, i use the nightly builds because I've figured out (and actually remember) how to get there the few times a month/quarter that I actually need to. I'm sure given time (and maybe a link on the webgui.org site somewhere) I could train myself again. 01:46
@Haarghttp://github.com/plainblack/webgui/tree/master is where our code will live in the future btw01:48
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* perlmonkey2 sees encrypted data :D02:31
+perlDreamerhow do you know its encrypted?02:31
+perlmonkey2I'm looking at it.02:31
+perlmonkey2it used to be json02:31
+perlmonkey2it is wrong 02:32
+perlmonkey2I mean, it doesn't have the correct headers.  But my workflow used an encryption provider to decrypt and then recrypt a field.  02:32
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+perlmonkey2patspam: encrypted data doesn't appear to like it in text fields.  looks like binary only :(03:19
+perlmonkey2just an fyi03:19
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elninohey perlDreamer... just fyi.. http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/prevnext-macro-navigation-buttons - VERY COOL macro - but it seems to be putting out a warning for no reason, or perhaps it's a bug with 7.603:45
+perlDreamercould be, what's the warning?03:45
+perlDreamerHopefully not "Written by perlDreamer"03:45
elninoWARN - xxx.xxxs.com.conf - WebGUI::Asset::newByUrl[1822] - The URL * was requested, but does not exist in your asset tree.03:46
elninoopps. interesting. the warning WAS   WebGUI::Asset::newByUrl[1822] - The URL b-snfoxj2n4doc01wjcqvq was requested, but does not exist in your asset tree.03:46
elninowhat did *I* change?03:46
elninooh. I'm using it on two sites. =)03:47
* perlDreamer has dinner with the fam, bbiaw03:51
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11473 /WebGUI/docs/ (changelog/7.x.x.txt upgrades/upgrade_7.7.1-7.7.2.pl): Make sure that all old RSS assets are cleaned up during the switch to the RSS AssetAspect.05:23
+perlDreamerdaviddelikat1: ping05:50
daviddelikat1perlDreamer: sup?05:51
+perlDreamerDo you know how to tell HTML::TokeParser to not decode HTML entities?05:52
daviddelikat1I think I did once05:52
+perlDreamerthat helps :)05:52
daviddelikat1have you browsed the docs?05:53
daviddelikat1I think it was easy to find05:53
+perlDreamerI've read TokeParser, PullParser, and HTML::Parser05:53
+perlDreamerit's related to this bug: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/993505:53
daviddelikat1... looking...05:53
+perlDreamerhere's how the bug works05:54
+perlDreameryou type content into a post05:54
+perlDreamerthe post gets processed and it makes a synopsis from the post content05:54
+perlDreamerthe synopsis has HTML entities that get decoded05:55
+perlDreamerbut when they saved to the db, it only inserts characters up to the first decoded entity05:55
daviddelikat1so splitTag is producing the final text when you rewally want it to still have the HTML encoded specials05:55
+perlDreamerwell, I want splitTag to produce the final text with the entities left encoded.05:56
+perlDreamerI have tried $p->attr_encoded, and it didn't do anything useful05:56
+perlDreamerfrom what I've read, we have to build our own version of get_text, using get_token as a base05:57
+perlDreamersince it doesn't decode entities by default05:58
elninohey perlDreamer...looks ike your busy. I didn't know if I should write a bug report on that macro that your wrote.  it seems that newByUrl is spitting out unneeded warning.05:58
+perlDreamerelnino, does the macro generate warnings when the test for the macro is run?05:59
elninoI didn't try the test, because it created the naviation links great for my site. I just happend to cross the warnings.05:59
elninolet me see.06:00
+perlDreameryou're sure this is made by the macro?06:00
elninoyep, because it's the assetId I specified in the macro and it only appears when I hit that page.06:00
elnino...that use the macro06:00
elninothere are 6 pages that use it.06:00
elnino... interesting ly tho, I' only getting text links, no buttons like it says I'm supposed to get? I don't have js disabled.06:02
elninobutmaybe that's because I'm not using a template.06:02
+perlDreamerthe problem with newByUrl is due to bad documentation06:04
+perlDreamerit says assetId, but in Oregonian, that means assetUrl06:04
+perlDreamertime to be Dr. Daddy, DDS06:04
elninoI tried to supply a url and it didn't like it at all. Do I need to prepand it with a slash? I didn't try that.06:05
* elnino goes and tries06:05
* elnino still confused because it does find the pages using the assetid.06:05
elninourl doesn't work with or without the slash06:07
daviddelikat1perlDreamer: I think we could do it by overriding the decode_entities operation...  I can help more tomorrow, I'm just heading out for tonight.  I'll be here bright and early tomorrow tho...06:12
* perlDreamer won't be online until 9:00am or so06:13
elninohow do I run a test for the macro?06:13
+perlDreamerenv WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/someWebGUI.conf perl t/Macro/PrevNext.t06:13
+perlDreamerhm, elnino, the test is running clean for me on 7.7.14-pre06:18
+perlDreamerno warnings06:19
+perlDreamerand the test does check passing a URL into the macro06:19
+perlDreamerlet me try the macro on a site and see what happens06:19
* elnino is stuck trying to figure out vi's stupid "features"06:19
* elnino sighs finally.06:21
elninoI apparantly don't have a test.pm06:24
elninoCan't locate WebGUI/Test.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /home/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/t/../lib /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/t/PrevNext.t line 5.06:24
elninoBEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/t/PrevNext.t line 5.06:24
+perlDreamerthat's unfortunate06:28
+perlDreamerI've tried this on a dev site and it works like I'd expect it to.06:28
+perlDreamerwhat does your macro invocation look like?06:28
elninooh there it is.06:28
elninohold on. I just found test.pm06:28
+perlDreamerPrevNext.t really wants to be in /data/WebGUI/t/Macro06:29
+perlDreamernot lib/WebGUI/Macro06:29
elninook. PrevNext.t is in /data/WebGUI/t/Macro.06:31
elninoI'm in /data/WebGUI/t06:31
elninoand I'm running  env WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/www.landmarklandscapedesigns.com.conf perl Macro/PrevNext.t06:32
elninoand getting: Failed to require package 'WebGUI::Session'. Reason: 'Can't locate Class/InsideOut.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /home/data/WebGUI/t/Macro/../lib /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl . /home/data/WebGUI/lib) at /home/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 18.06:32
elninoBEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /home/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 18.06:32
elninoCompilation failed in require at /home/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session.pm line 18.06:32
elninoBEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /home/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session.pm line 18.06:32
elninoCompilation failed in require at (eval 11) line 1.06:32
elninoI did setenvironment.. I'll do it again.06:32
+perlDreamerI finally gave up and put it in root's .bashrc file06:32
elninothe .t file?06:33
+perlDreamerer, setenvironment.sh rather06:34
+perlDreamerthat way I'm always working with the WRE's environment06:34
elninooh good grief...06:37
elninoI think i need to go to bed. I can't think. I'll revisit this06:37
+perlDreamergood night, elnino06:38
elninono worrries, I have my links, I'm happy.06:38
elninojust a warning message that lingers.06:38
elninogood night.06:38
elninook. one last question tho..  where is  Class/InsideOut.pm  supposed to be?06:39
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elninook. it's there. 06:43
elninonow I'm going to sleep. 06:44
+perlDreamerl8r ;)06:44
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+perlDreamergreets, tavisto06:48
@tavistoanyone in here using google latitude?06:48
@tavistojust got an invite from a friend to try it.. love the fact it uses google maps but also wondering if this is just another step to allowing big brother to invade my privacy06:49
+perlDreamerI'm sure that rizen has other ways of keeping tabs on you, tavisto06:50
+perlDreamerI wouldn't sweat it06:50
@tavistohah lol06:50
@tavistoyeah skype/IM work pretty good for that06:50
* perlDreamer is going to call it a night, too06:51
+perlDreamerlater, all06:51
@tavistoyeah I'm about ready to.. couple more minutes06:51
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+bartjolmmm, wondering whether I found a bug14:32
CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r11474 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (5 files): Update from translation server15:53
xdangeris there anyone around who can share some knowledge about the mail queue and "cron"?15:57
+bartjolwell, depends on what you want to know16:00
+bartjolhaven't looked into that too much yet16:00
xdangerI have a client who wants "realtime" emails16:00
+bartjolrealtime as in less than a minute?16:01
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xdangerwas just wondering at what interval is thet activity runed?16:01
+bartjolwell, that depends on the settings of your scheduler16:01
xdangerthats what I was looking for =)16:02
xdangerwonder if it will break with a small value16:02
+bartjolthat depends on how many mails are send probably16:03
xdangerI hope that it's enough for them that we run that once every minute16:04
+bartjolwell, normally with the 5 minute interval I get messages within 2 or 3 minuytes16:05
+bartjoldepends on what spectre has to do 16:05
+bartjolyou can try to tweak you spectre settings16:05
xdangerdid that...16:06
xdangerBut I think that there isn't an easy way to get it under one minute16:06
+bartjolwell, experience will be the teacher16:07
+bartjolnormally it won't be a problem16:08
xdangerIt could be for this client... they are not easy =)16:08
+bartjolbut if they have many users or send a lot of group e-mails it can16:08
xdangerwhy isn't sendmail run in realtime in some places?16:08
xdangerthis is a dataform16:09
xdangerso max 1 email16:09
+bartjolwell, as I said, maybe webgui does more stuff with it, like attaching footers and stuff16:09
+bartjoldarn, I did not say that16:10
+bartjolchanged my sentence, sorry16:10
+bartjolI think you can make a workflow that is run immediately16:11
+bartjolbut I haven't done that myselfd16:11
+bartjolmmm, some of the new i18n doesn't make sense to me16:25
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+bartjoley, perlmonkey2, anything to do with the story asset?17:01
+perlmonkey2bartjol Not me.17:01
+perlmonkey2thought that was all perldreamer17:01
* bartjol is grinning evilish17:01
+perlmonkey2you worked on it?17:02
+bartjolthe translation17:02
+bartjoland I don't understand some of it17:02
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PCCCgood morning does anybody knows how to import files bigger than 100mb 17:07
@preactionPCCC: don't use the web interface17:08
PCCCso what can i use?17:09
+bartjolwell, copy it to your server17:09
+bartjoland use fileImport.pl17:09
+bartjolin /data/WebGUI/sbin17:10
+bartjolor wherever your WebGUI/sbin dir is17:10
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PCCCok, i'll give it a go17:11
+bartjolread the help of that script17:11
+bartjolyou need some partameters17:11
+bartjolpreaction: may I ask you something17:13
@preactionbartjol: go ahead17:13
+bartjolI noticed that there is a publicProfile JSON entry in the wg_privacysettings17:13
+bartjolbut I actually see only the field publicProfile being used17:14
+bartjoldo I miss something17:14
+bartjoloh, sorry, that is in the userprofiling stuff17:14
+bartjolyou need some context17:14
+bartjolI also always wine about that17:15
@preactionthere's no reason to show the state of the publicProfile field to anybody except the user who can edit it17:15
+bartjolah, that's only a state17:15
@preactionso the privacysetting isn't currently necessary17:15
+bartjolwell, useless to do extra work taking it out17:16
+bartjolmmm, I have a user that wants to be the default to set the profile public, but not the fields within17:16
+bartjolbut I believe the default db setting is chosen17:17
+bartjolnot that of the setting chosen in user profiling17:17
+bartjolso you cannot overrule that setting17:17
+bartjolexcept by altering the db tables settings17:21
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CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r11475 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (8 files): Update from translation server17:38
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+perlmonkey2Anyone catch the crop circle hoopla that seemed to imply the not-quite-a-sunspot was going to launch 6 coronal mass ejections at us today?  Over three days a crop circle got progressively more complicated until astronomers deciphered it to mean the sun was going to hit us hard.17:41
+perlmonkey2Except NASA says that blip on the sun doesn't qualify as a sunspot and "Knowing" was released on DVD today.17:41
+bartjolmmm, I think pygmee people ar responsible17:42
+perlmonkey2I think Summet Entertainment hired some clever marketeers. 17:42
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CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r11476 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset.pm Asset_Matrix.pm): Update from translation server17:54
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+perlDreamerGood morning, everybody18:40
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11477 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bad i18n copy/paste error in the Shortcut.18:43
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11478 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Backport Shortcut i18n fix.18:43
daviddelikat1mornin pd18:50
daviddelikat1I looked at your html decoding problem18:50
daviddelikat1I think the easiest thing to do would be to re-encode the text18:51
daviddelikat1tho that is nt my favirite solution18:51
daviddelikat1i plodded through toe code for a while and found there is no simple way to turn off decoding18:51
daviddelikat1so you solution about writing a 'plugin' that duplicates the get_text code but without the decoding may be the best solution.18:54
+perlDreamerre-encoding won't work, because it would encode any real HTML markup inside the returned synopsis18:56
+perlDreamerso I agree, the best thing to do is to rebuild get_trimmed_text18:56
+perlDreameralthough I am going to submit a 15 character patch back to the author to do it the right way18:56
daviddelikat1you can tell the re-encoder to do only certain bits...18:56
+perlDreamerHTML::TokeParser is a sub-class of HTML::Parser, which has an attr_encoded property which says: "Don't decode my text".18:57
daviddelikat1and avoid the '<>&'18:57
+perlDreamerdavidelikat: How would it handle this:   <p>I said <b>greater than</b>, you know &gt;</p>18:57
+perlDreamer&gt; would get decoded unconditionally18:58
+perlDreamerand needs to be reencoded18:58
daviddelikat1sure you always find problems with my suggestion ( boo hoo )18:58
* perlDreamer has written too many tests not to think corner cases18:59
daviddelikat1i did not see the 'do not decode text' thing in the code18:59
daviddelikat1so I think you will have to re-write it.18:59
daviddelikat1unless the do-no-decode is inside teh HTML::encoder class.18:59
+perlDreamerno, it's inside HTML::Parser19:00
daviddelikat1are you looking at the current version or the version used in WG?19:00
+perlDreamerperldoc HTML::Parser, look for attr_encoded19:02
+perlDreamerand then wonder why HTML::TokeParser won't obey it19:02
daviddelikat1perhaps the code is not following the documentation?19:03
daviddelikat1there was a dumpster truck doing its thing across the street and it sounded like my kids were running around upstairs ...19:04
daviddelikat1but nobodys home19:04
daviddelikat1so when I looked at the code there was only one thing that would skip entity decoding19:05
daviddelikat1and that was if gat_token returned a glag indicating the token is data19:06
+perlDreamerright.  I think it should also include a check for $self->attr_encoded19:07
+perlDreamerso || $self->attr_encoded is 15-20 characters19:07
+perlDreamervery small patch19:07
+perlDreamerbut WAY useful19:07
daviddelikat1sounds good to me19:07
daviddelikat1I think there are two places to apply it though19:08
@preactionokay, so i'm testing the Collaboration RSS feed items, and the attachments are absolute URLs (not full URLs). is this a bug? 19:16
daviddelikat1perlDreamer: the spot I was looking at is here: /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.0/i686-linux/HTML/TokeParser.pm line 89 and 12819:17
+perlDreamerpreaction: what's the difference between full and absolute?19:18
@preactionhttp://domain.com <- a full URL has that19:18
@preactionan absolute URL starts with /path/to/file.jpg19:18
+perlDreamerdaviddelikat, I agree, get_phrase would be good, too, but I wasn't thinking beyond the immediate problem.19:19
+perlDreamerGood catch19:19
+perlDreamerpreaction, do they work?19:19
@preactionthey work, technically, but you, the site author, have to add your domain to the end of them19:19
@preactioner.. to the beginning rather19:20
@preactionalso, we don't quite support attachments in RSS right now (at least, not according to any RSS/Atom spec)19:20
@preactionso i believe this is just backwards-compat for those using the RSS "feed" as a straight-up XML feed to power weird things19:20
+perlDreamerpreaction: that sounds more like a bug19:21
+perlDreamerXML::FeedPP is supposed to do the right thing for attachments19:21
+perlDreamerif you post it, I'll look at it later19:22
@preactioni don't want to touch it, that's the problem, i just want to test it19:22
+perlDreameror I'll assign it to someone with more experience in web standards19:22
@preactionso i'm going to test it as-is and we'll fix it later19:22
+perlDreamerwhy write a test to verify a bug?19:23
@preactionas i mentioned, it might be working properly.19:23
@preactioni want to wait until a beta release, then fix every stupidity of the CS that we can identify19:23
+perlDreamerbut this reaches beyond the CS19:24
+perlDreamerit also affects StoryManager and SC assets19:24
@preactionno, this is in the getRssFeedItems in the CS, it's not part of the Aspect19:24
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beernutzHow do you get webui running under 64bit ubuntu?  The wiki does not have much on that one, and i understand it SHOULD work from the binary install, but i cant seem to get mod_perl to start.  Can someone point me in the right direction please?19:35
+perlDreamerbeernutz, you need to talk with mech422 if he comes into the room19:38
+perlDreamerhe's our resident 64-bit expoert19:38
beernutzk, thank you so much19:38
+perlDreamerhowever, if you search the forums on webgui.org, in the etc and developer sections, it may give you some help19:38
+perlDreamershort answer, prepare for pain19:39
beernutzya, that is what i have been seeing19:39
beernutztrying to seeif i can get a 32bit slice to simplify19:40
+perlDreamerone of the design goals for WRE 1.0 is to get it working under 64-bit19:40
+perlDreamerI hear they are very close19:40
PCCCdoes anybody know how to upload a webgui package over 100mg19:52
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+perlDreamerPCCC, check the wiki and the forums on webgui.org.  That's a frequently found issue.20:00
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* perlDreamer runs off20:02
topsubcan webgui do invoicing yet?20:34
@preactionwhat do you mean by invoicing?20:35
topsubsorry got distracted20:39
topsubsay you have clients as users, you want to send them abill bascially20:39
topsubis this something we could get working in webgui20:39
topsubusing the Shop?20:40
topsubonly thing i could think of is having them manually type in the amount owed but i was trying to advoid that20:40
@preactionprovided the product is part of the Shop, yes20:43
topsubCan you setup a product so the user can enter in the price?20:54
+perlmonkey2I want to shop at topsub's store.21:08
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@preactionyou can create a product that would allow that, yes21:28
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+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: ping22:14
+perlmonkey2actually anyone who cares.  Can anyone think why the Crypt::None shouldn't be a singleton.  Would there ever be a reason when you would want multiple encryption providers which were just passthroughs?22:15
+perlmonkey2multiple no encryption providers I mean.22:17
@Haargseems a little odd to have one provider be a singleton and others not, if that is what you are describing22:19
@Haargbut if it doesn't make any difference to the external api it shouldn't matter much22:19
+perlmonkey2Haarg: the None provider is kind of the default for a field that was once encrypted but is no longer encrypted.  I don't know why there would ever be multiple ones, but it sure would be easier for me to code if I left it as a defined provider and not a singleton.  22:21
+perlmonkey2But None provider fields don't have a header so I need a way to identify them as different in the workflow as it loops on fields who don't match "CRYPT:$providerId:" that don't match the current provider id.  As you can see, a None will loop forever as it will never have that header of "CRYPT:$providerId"22:23
+perlmonkey2I'll just have the workflow check provider types and use a different query for None.22:23
@preactionbut why? the workflow shouldn't care what the provider does22:26
+perlmonkey2preaction: the workflow is the way new providers are switched to.22:33
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2: pong22:33
+perlmonkey2in the admin panel say you switch to Simple, None, then Simple.22:33
+perlmonkey2it doesn't happen instantly, but the next time the workflow runs.22:33
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: was just going to ask you about what's in the scroll.22:33
+perlDreamerI'll backlog22:33
+perlmonkey2preaction: sorry that didn't make much sense.22:34
+perlmonkey2the workflow only cares what's in the target field.  But for None the target field should not have a header and for all others it should.  The workflow needs to know if it should process those fields and the only way to do it is to check for the proper header or lack thereof.  So None needs a special case in the workflow.22:35
+perlmonkey2woohoo, can switch from providers all day long, interrupting the workflow, whatever and it works.  22:43
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2: 1!@aslkjasf(*D:SKD009 !@#al;ljsdfalsd(&(*kjk;kj:):):)@!3kj;lkj9suoi|{}|22:53
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11479 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.7.6-7.7.7.pl: 22:55
CIA-46WebGUI: Duplicate the old RSS asset fix right before the upgrade sub that causes problems,22:55
CIA-46WebGUI: to catch users who have upgraded past the original stopping point.22:55
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+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: Is that "I <3 U" encrypted?22:58
+perlDreamerit's either that, or the result of cat paws on the keyboard22:59
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+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: You cat must be drunk to tab complete my name then write gibberish on the screen.  Tell him gentlemen wait until 6.23:10
+perlDreamerit's 6 off the east coast23:10
@HaargperlDreamer, did you end up posting those uploads scripts anywhere?23:11
@Haargfixing/converting scripts23:11
+perlDreamerthey're on the bazaar23:11
@Haarghttp://haarg.org/fixUploadsCase.pl i updated this slightly23:12
@Haargalso, the other was written for my own use to convert webgui's paths, so it uses 'git mv'23:13
@Haargalso some other questionable things i have in there like the triple map+glob, but it works so w/e23:15
+perlDreamerI'll reupload fixUploadsCase now23:16
+perlDreamerand have a look to the other soon23:16
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* perlDreamer feels the need to quote Bill Cosby23:25
+perlDreamer"It's the brain damage!"23:25
topsub my store, enter in your own price for LCD tvs..23:26
topsubhaha.. silly clients23:26
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--- Day changed Wed Jul 08 2009
+perlDreamerHaarg, should we be able to write UTF-8 into the synopsis in the db?00:01
@Haargall text fields should be utf800:01
+perlDreamerSo, if I had a string that looked like this:00:02
+perlDreamerBrandhei?e Neuigkeiten rund um's Klettern f?r euch aus der Region00:02
+perlDreamerand in the db all that showed up was "Brandhei"00:03
+perlDreamerwhat does that mean?00:03
@Haargwhat kind of asset?00:03
@Haargdoes the content get saved properly?00:03
+perlDreamerEnter post data into the RTE00:04
@Haargwhat if you explicitly give that as the synopsis?00:04
+perlDreamerI haven't tried that yet00:04
+perlDreamerSo, enter post content00:04
+perlDreamerit pulls a synopsis from the content00:04
+perlDreamerbut while doing that00:04
+perlDreamerit decodes all HTML entities00:04
+perlDreamerthe db write stops at the first decoded German entity00:05
@Haargdecoded or encoded?00:05
+perlDreamerdecoded (from &eumlaut;)00:05
@Haargit sounds like rte is encoding the characters which it shouldn't really need to00:05
+perlDreamernot seeing any options to make it not encode00:06
@Haargwhere is the decoding happenning?00:06
SDuensinIs anyone else considering heavy drinking today?00:07
+perlDreamerI have a fix that changes that00:07
+perlDreamerbut then I started thinking about why the db would care about the content00:07
@Haargit shouldn't matter and should be fine for tokeparser to decode it00:07
@Haargso the return value from tokeparser is cut off like that?00:08
@Haargor our code is doing it afterward?00:08
+perlDreamerit's fine all the way up to update00:08
+perlDreamerI haven't checked it farther than that00:08
+perlDreamerit's fine all the way inside ->update00:13
+perlDreamerwhere it reports as:00:13
+perlDreamer'synopsis' => 'Brandhei<DF>e Neuigkeiten rund um\'s Klettern f<FC>r euch aus der Region',00:13
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+perlDreamerthe <DF> and <FC> are 8-bit characters?00:13
@Haargi'm not sure that is correct00:14
@Haargutf-8 doesn't use 8-bit characters00:15
@Haarghow are you dumping that?00:17
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+perlDreamer$session->log->warn(Dumper \%setPairs)00:18
+perlDreamerand looking at it 3 ways00:18
+perlDreamervim, less and tail00:19
@Haargi'd make sure whatever you dump for testing of that use $Useqq and $Useperl00:19
+perlDreamerI'll redo it00:20
@Haargalternatively, change the db debug log use ->ascii on the json encoder00:21
+perlDreamer"synopsis" => "Brandhei\337e Neuigkeiten rund um's Klettern f\374r euch aus der Region"00:21
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+perlDreamerwhich I think is the same in hex as before, just using octal?00:23
+perlDreamerthe entity decode table is hardcoded inside HTML::Entities00:23
@Haargit seems like that should all work00:27
+perlDreamerthe only thing I could think of that column being different from all the others00:28
@Haargit's text00:28
+perlDreamerIf I go to a regular asset and enter in the string into the Summary (synopsis) in the edit form, it saves fine00:33
@Haargwhat does your debug output look like for that?00:34
+perlDreamer"synopsis" => "Brandhei\x{df}e Neuigkeiten rund um's Klettern f\x{fc}r euch aus der Region",00:35
@Haargso they are internally not encoded as utf-800:37
@Haargwhich is where the problem comes from00:37
@HaargDBD::mysql is probably doing something dumb in its utf8 encoding stuff00:38
+perlDreamerI think I can make a small test case.  Is it worth reporting?00:38
@HaargEncode.pm handles it properly from what i can see00:39
+perlDreamercool, I'll work on that while doing the release00:40
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@Haargmight be the same problem00:40
+perlDreamerit looks like the same signature00:41
+perlDreamerstopped at the first decoded character00:41
+perlDreamerhe even provided a patch00:41
@Haargas for a workaround, we may need to wrap HTML::Entities::decode_entities00:43
@Haargto always convert to utf-800:43
+perlDreamermonkey patch?00:43
@Haargi was more thinking just a wrapper00:44
+perlDreamerHTML::Entities::decode_entities is called internally by other modules, though00:44
@Haargi'm not sure the best way to go about it00:45
+perlDreamerfor now, I reimplemented TokeParsers get_text_trimmed inside splitTag00:46
+perlDreamerthis is just ugly00:46
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@Haargcouldn't you just utf-8 encode the result from it?00:46
@Haarginstead of re-implementing it?00:46
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@Haargutf8::upgrade $_ for values TML::Entities::entity2char;00:54
@Haargif we wanted to go the monkeypatch route00:54
@Haarglost a %H in there00:54
+perlDreameror at least the output of $tokenParser->get_trimmed_text;00:54
+perlDreamerthat seems to work00:59
@Haargit seems like HTML::Entities should be returning utf8 strings normally.  i wonder if that is a change that would be accepted.01:03
@Haargwell, i guess it is returning utf8 strings, just not UTF-8 strings :/01:03
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11480 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): 01:35
CIA-46WebGUI: Work around bugs in HTML::Entities, which doesn't output strict utf8, and01:35
CIA-46WebGUI: DBD::mysql, which doesn't encode high characters correctly. This shows up01:35
CIA-46WebGUI: in the Post synopsis, HTML::splitTag and Post->getSynopsisAndContent.01:35
+perlDreamerI'm going to have a hard problem with 50 character git commit comments01:35
+perlmonkey2waaaa, git limits comments to 50char?01:36
@Haargalthough it does encourage a 50 character limit on the first line of the comment01:37
@Haargto treat it along the lines of an email subject01:37
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11481 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Backporting Post synopsis fix.02:04
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11482 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm: Backport utility method that's being used in backported tests.02:04
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11483 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/ (gotcha.txt upgrades/upgrade_7.6.29-7.6.30.pl): Removing CSRF token from session table and upgrade gotchas.02:38
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+perlDreamerroll roll roll the release06:08
+perlDreamergently down the tubes06:08
+perlmonkey2patspam: ping06:08
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11484 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/create.sql: Preparing for 7.6.30 release06:13
SDuensinOk, well, I bought the shop guide.  Even read some of it.  Now I'm pretty sure I'm screwed.06:14
* SDuensin sighs06:14
+perlmonkey2SDuensin: what's wrong?06:15
SDuensinI need a subscription SKU that changes the amount it costs dynamically each month...06:15
+perlmonkey2can't you write something to run the logic for you on each month?06:16
SDuensinFrom what I understand, iTransact just keeps running whatever was first posted to them and just notifies WG if it worked or not.06:16
SDuensinGetting the amount data into WG isn't a problem.  It's charging the user for it.06:16
+perlmonkey2right I see that06:16
+perlmonkey2you can either bill a reoccurring fixed charge, or a single fixed charge, but you need their credit card to bill reoccurring dynamic charges.06:17
SDuensinYep.  I was afraid of that.  Welcome to PCI Hell.06:18
+perlmonkey2I'd put money on their not being an easy way around this.  iTransact probably doesn't want to allow users to write blank checks.06:18
+perlmonkey2cheesy non-solution, charge them the max and refund what they don't use.06:19
+perlmonkey2Looks like you are about to go into the monthly billing business :(06:20
SDuensinOh yea, it'll be a hoot.06:20
SDuensinOk, I got two more (easier) questions while you're here...06:21
SDuensinIs the POS Terminal in WebGUI yet?  If so, I'm blind and can't find it.06:21
SDuensinAnd do you know how PB runs both the PB and WG sites from the same instance?06:21
@preactionSDuensin: the POS stuff is just allowing a "Cashier" to make a purchase using another user's information06:21
+perlDreamerIt's in 706:21
+perlmonkey2No idea, I havne't spent much time working on [head]06:22
@preactionPB and WG are now seperate again06:22
+perlDreamerSDuensin, it's Rewrite magic06:22
SDuensinpreaction - Oh yea?  Bad mojo living together?06:22
+perlDreamerbig big big database06:22
@preactionno, just too big06:22
@preactionwe may need to distribute them in the future, so we did this06:22
SDuensinI'm looking to combine three of my sites so all my company pages share a single user database.06:23
@preactionbut, we also made SSO between the two, so hopefully we'll be able to put that into WebGUI someday06:23
@preactionSSO and profile sync06:23
+perlmonkey2preaction: any chance of that code going public?06:23
SDuensinSSO/Sync sounds fun.06:24
SDuensinStill, one user database, one online store.  It'd make my life easier.  Right now I have three.06:24
+perlmonkey2and I mean, public before it is released with WG06:24
@preactionperlmonkey2: i e-mailed JT, he wrote it. I'll let you know what he says06:24
+perlmonkey2preaction: thanks06:25
SDuensinWas the mod_rewrite stunt documented anywhere?06:27
+perlDreamerI think it's in the wiki06:29
SDuensinOK, I'll check it again.  Didn't find much before, but I was kind of in a rush.06:30
SDuensinNothing with "rewrite" or "mod_rewrite".06:30
* SDuensin is liking the wiki less and less these days. :-(06:30
@preactionyeah, it needs some work to make it easier to organize06:31
@preactionthat's my second order of business come August06:31
SDuensinEven a "List Every Damn Thing Here" button would help.06:31
+perlDreamerhow about a "put everything in 1 place button so you can search for it"06:33
+perlDreamerSDuensin, you have to check _all_ the wikis06:33
+perlDreamerthey are all separate now06:33
SDuensinYea, I know it's all separate.  Sucks!06:34
SDuensinThanks for the reminder though.  Found it.06:35
@preactionis it in the Admin one?06:36
@preactionlink me? i can't find it either06:37
@preactionsearch sucks06:37
@preactionso i want to fix the keywords on that article to make it easier to find06:37
SDuensinI just searched for "rewrite".06:39
@preactionah, the title sucks too06:39
@preactionthere, fixed the title and added some more keywords06:41
+perlDreamernot one, or two, but three assets!06:42
SDuensinThe new WG site looks nice, but finding things on it got a lot more difficult.06:43
+perlDreamerI think I need to channel Billie Mays for my WUC talk06:43
@preactionSDuensin: if the wiki had two features, it would be much better: Subscribe (email notifications), and keyword relationships (for organizing the unorganizable)06:44
@preactionsubscribe would increase the quality by allowing people to become editors and vet content06:44
@preactionthe keyword relationships would build a table of contents, as well as other things06:45
+perlDreamerwouldn't keyword relationships just be an extension of search06:45
+perlDreamersince it's already keyword based?06:45
+perlDreameralso, it sounds like we need to build a subscription assetAspect06:46
@preactionnot really. you'd set up the links from keyword to keyword. "A" is a parent of "B", then you know that A > B06:46
@preactioni have one almost built, just needs some bugfixing and tweaking06:46
@preactionit's been sitting bitrotting for about 6 months now06:46
+perlDreamerand POD and tests?06:46
@preactionit's Test-driven06:47
+perlDreameram I being maintenance-nazi enough?06:47
@preactiononce we move to git, i can fork and have a nicer place to get collaboration on my half-baked ideas06:47
@preactionwe're not backing out untested changes yet, and we haven't set up Selenium or Continual Integration06:48
@preactionon that note, a couple people (and me) are building a CI project in Perl06:48
@preactiononce August rolls around, i might be leading the development on it06:48
+perlDreamerah, ci06:50
+perlDreamerare you going to hook something buildbot like into Smolder?06:50
@preactionCradle will be very buildbot-like, probably yes06:51
@preactionand it will have Smolder bindings, but won't be reliant on Smolder06:51
@preactionreports can go anywhere (like smolder), or you can make your own report generator06:52
@preactionevery step is going to be pluggable, Update source, Build, Test, Report06:52
@preactionso as one kind of Report, I can keep track of test coverage by module, and notify someone if it goes down06:52
@preactionas another type, I can do the same for failing tests06:52
@preactionand as a final type, i can shuffle a report off to Smolder06:53
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11485 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.30-stable: Release 7.6.30-stable07:00
@preactionperlDreamer: if you have any ideas on what the CI system that WebGUI uses should do, let me know07:02
@preactioni'm thinking it should check Coverage, check test pass/fail, handle nightly builds, keep track of the last 25 or so commit builds (more if the commit had a test failure)07:03
SDuensinWTH?  I just added a user to a group and it says they will expire on 6/19/1941.07:04
@preactionbut now i need sleep. days keep getting busier and busier07:04
@preactionuh... heh, BIGINT rollover perhaps?07:04
SDuensinBeats me.07:04
* preaction sleeps07:04
SDuensinOk, this is too good to not share:  http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=1065152507:06
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+perlDreamerSDuensin, I kind of get that guy.07:26
+perlDreamerWhat good is there in spending 100's of thousands of dollars on property if you don't get to decide what to do with it07:26
+perlDreamermaybe he's an environmentalist, and objects to the use of gasoline mowers?07:27
SDuensinBuy a goat, not a shotgun.07:28
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11486 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.6.31 development07:31
+perlDreamergoats produce methany gas.  Very non-carbon neutral.07:31
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11487 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 07:53
CIA-46WebGUI: Update the object cache on editSave and autoCommit, so that it doesn't lie about07:53
CIA-46WebGUI: its version lock status.07:53
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11488 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 07:53
CIA-46WebGUI: Forward port fix for updating property cache on editSave with autoCommit07:53
CIA-46WebGUI: so that the asset does not lie about its autocommit status.07:53
+perlDreamerboy, that colin guy was busy today07:53
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topsubhaha /golf clap 08:07
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11489 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Force an init of the fields form in the ThingyRecord when the Edit form is loaded.08:17
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* perlDreamer crashes out08:33
+perlDreamermore hackery tomorrow08:33
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11490 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: Remove debug code.08:38
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11491 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 08:38
CIA-46WebGUI: Change the default ThingyRecord template to show a thank you message,08:38
CIA-46WebGUI: View Cart link, and continue shopping link.08:38
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elninoHi!!  are changes to the admin settings logged? so I can see if anyone changed any of the settings?17:36
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+bartjoldanny_mk: hi I'm installing the modules for your AuthOpenId app17:51
+bartjolbut the LWPx::ParanoidAgent faisl on it's tests17:51
+bartjoldid you encounter that problem17:52
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+danny_mkwhat test does it fail?17:54
+danny_mkwhich test?17:54
+danny_mkbarjol: which test?17:54
+bartjolwait, I put it in pastebin17:55
+bartjolso the first, but it sems to need another moudule17:57
elninoOther than collaboration systems, what else might have it's own settings for "committing versions"?17:57
+danny_mkhmmm... try upgrading: LWP::Debug17:58
+danny_mkperl -MCPAN -e 'install LWP::Debug'17:58
+bartjolwell, we don't use cpan17:58
+bartjolbut I'll install it17:58
+danny_mklet me know how it goes17:58
+bartjolwhich perl did you use?18:00
+bartjolI see a deprecated:18:00
+bartjoland we're on 5.1018:01
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+danny_mkbartjol: hmmm... the latest version of LWPx::ParanoidAgent still uses LWP::Debug::debug  http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/BRADFITZ/LWPx-ParanoidAgent-1.05/lib/LWPx/ParanoidAgent.pm18:04
+bartjolwell, that is strange18:04
+bartjoloff course I can try to install18:05
+bartjolbut I'm doubting whether that will be stable18:05
+MrHairgreaseBart, it won't work w/o LWP::Debug18:05
+MrHairgreaseYou'll have to install that as well18:05
+bartjolwell, ok18:05
+MrHairgreaseand then install the paranoiduseragent18:06
+danny_mkyou can comment those out in the LWPx::ParanoidAgent module, it is only used twice in the subroutine:  sub _need_proxy18:06
+danny_mkof course this is a maintenance nightmare because you will have to keep track of your changes18:06
+MrHairgreaseit's used in way more places18:07
+MrHairgreaseoh, but all are in send_request18:07
+danny_mkAH!  the entire module was deprecated.  Yup, you are right18:09
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11492 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix i18n typos in the StoryArchive.18:53
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daviddelikatfire bug is a bit unreliable about displaying errors...19:10
@tavistodaviddelikat, preaction just posted a staff blog entry about this. He switched to Safari 4 because of the problems with it19:11
daviddelikatI'll have to take a look at safari...19:12
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+perlDreamermorning folks19:37
+perlDreamerany buzz about Google OS?19:37
+perlDreamersounds like a good, small platform to distribute with our favorite CMS appliance19:37
daviddelikatwhats it based on?19:38
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+perlDreamersee linkage on slashdot and linux weekly news19:42
+perlDreamercongrats on the PBWG, steveo_aa19:42
+perlDreameroh, and daviddelikat, Haarg wisely advised me to use Encode to fix the HTML::TokeParser entity problem.19:47
+perlDreamer1-line fix instead of copy and paste code from inside HTML::TokeParser19:48
daviddelikatoh the great and wise haarg!!19:48
@Haargactually, didn't you use utf8::upgrade?19:49
+perlDreameryes, I did.19:49
daviddelikatmy question about google OS is can I install it on my palm computer?19:50
+perlDreameroh, I don't know19:50
daviddelikatthen I want to be able to run a local httpd so I can serve up a few apps for myself...19:51
+perlDreameriirc, targeted for intel and arm processors19:51
+perlDreamerI'm sure it will be crossported quickly19:51
daviddelikatI wonder how well it will run on a 386?19:53
+perlmonkey2daviddelikat: Android can run iJetty20:03
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daviddelikatsorry what are we talking about?20:03
+perlmonkey2running webservers on your handhelds20:04
daviddelikathow good is iJetty?20:04
+perlmonkey2never used it20:04
daviddelikatI need perl running too... :)20:04
+perlmonkey2roll your own handheld with a gumstix ;)20:05
daviddelikatI think I'll just strap a dual P4 on my back and use the palm for interface...20:05
* daviddelikat google gumstix20:05
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+perlDreamerit'll keep you warm, daviddelikat20:08
daviddelikatthe batteries'll keep me fit too....20:09
daviddelikatok so how do I get debug info in safari...20:10
daviddelikatI have the web inspector running20:10
daviddelikatb ut it is empty...20:10
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@preactiondaviddelikat: open the develop menu and click "Start Debugging Javascript"20:20
daviddelikatthats much easier than what I did...20:21
daviddelikatwell a little easier ... I right clicked and inspected an element...20:21
daviddelikatgot me going anyway...20:22
daviddelikatthanks for the tip.20:22
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+perlDreamerdaviddelikat, seems like the Helpdesk is doing funny things to usernames with underscores21:49
+perlDreamerlike removing them21:49
* perlDreamer is running out of battery. Time to head home. bbiaw after lunchtime21:54
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+perlmonkey2Question about when to inform a user that a encryption provider can be edited in the configuration file, since webgui can't edit them directly.  22:54
+perlmonkey2Here's the problem.  Say you have a column encrypted with 'X'.  You change this to 'Y'.  But it doesn't actually get changed until the next time the workflow completes successfully.22:55
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@Haarghow does the configuration of the encryption providers work?22:56
+perlmonkey2So should the admin page check every single row in every possible encrypted field to build a list of all current used providers to tell the user which ones can be altered?22:56
+perlmonkey2Haarg: it must be done by hand in the config file.  The admin is more for checked status/turning on global encryption, and see which fields are currently encrypted and with what.22:57
+perlmonkey2It was set to add/delete/edit providers, but having webgui edit the config file was frowned upon :P22:57
+perlmonkey2I'm just wondering if I should be absolutely 100% positive that it is okay to edit a provider's configuration.  Which could require a lengthy db query.22:58
@Haargwhat alteration would the admin be doing?22:58
+perlmonkey2nothing.  Just letting hte user know which providers it is okay to alter in the config.22:58
+perlmonkey2oh, it turns on/off global encryptoin.22:58
+perlmonkey2and has a shortcut to start the workflow.22:59
+perlmonkey2I guess I could just put a warning saying here is the last time the workflow has completed.  If no changes has been made to field encryptions, then the config file can be edited.23:00
@Haargis there a reason the configuration for this can't be stored in the database?23:00
@Haargaside from encryption keys23:00
+perlmonkey2security, I guess.  23:00
@Haargwhat i mean is, i understand that you can't have encryption keys in the db as that invalidates the whole point of this23:01
+perlmonkey2but really, a provider shouldn't really be altered.  It should be deleted or added, but it woudl be really dangerous to alter it. 23:01
@Haargbut it seems like any other configuration (which i don't know what there is) would be done in the db23:02
+perlmonkey2but any editing of the config besides the key's/encryptoin method, is pretty cosemetic and doesn't matter.23:02
+perlmonkey2yeah, I see what you're saying.23:02
+perlmonkey2and perhaps that could be stored in the db and edited from the admin.  Just not sure what the point is.  As far as I can see, providers should be added, used, retired, then eventually deleted.  But never edited.  But I'm not running the show on this one.23:03
@Haargwell, i don't know all the information you are storing about them, but what you are saying seems mostly correct23:04
@Haargyou just want to have some kind of feedback to the admin of what providers are being used23:04
+perlmonkey2only three types of providers so far.  none, which does nothing but return data, Simple which uses CBC, and then HSM which uses a url.23:05
+perlmonkey2So basically we have a 'name', 'provider' type, and then Simple needs a 'key' and HSM needs a 'url'.23:06
+perlmonkey2okay, yeah, this admin page should be more of just a report on what the score is.  And warn them not to manually edit providers unless they are positive the workflow has completed since the last table changed its provider setting.23:07
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@steveo_aaI hadn't noticed that I was this month's PGWG poser boy.23:44
@steveo_aa(poser wasn't a typo, chuckle)23:45
+perlDreamerit's a promotion?23:45
@steveo_aaMy life is going backwards from being a company owner to a support dev.23:46
@steveo_aaBut I voluntarily gave up the owner life.  Way too many stresses.23:46
@steveo_aaI'll have to let you know later if being the July PBWG is anything more than marketing.23:48
@steveo_aaBut it is good to be recognized, even as a commercial.23:49
@steveo_aaSpeaking of "commercial" I was once on a nationally televised commercial back in 1994.23:49
@steveo_aaI didn't have a speaking role, but Barbara and I, and Dee Dee our dachshund were filmed and inserted into a promotional Discover card commercial.  We won a contest we didn't know we had entered.  We even got actor's guild residuals for the showings.23:51
@preactionha, nice23:52
@steveo_aaThe rules are you can do that once without having to pay guild dues, but any more than that and you owe them some money.23:52
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@steveo_aaThe contest was a pretty big deal.  1 in 6 million to be drawn, and the money was sufficient for us to put some money down on building the house we now live in.23:53
@steveo_aaSomeday I should digitize the commercial and post it online.23:56
@steveo_aa15 years later and we still have Dee Dee the devil dog.23:56
@steveo_aaHer face has gone white, and she doesn't hear very well anymore, but she's still healthy and strong.23:57
--- Day changed Thu Jul 09 2009
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+perlmonkey2If I need to run a workflow, is there an API for activating it, or just instantiate it and execute?00:09
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SquOnkHi everyone.00:09
@Haargpretty much just instantiate and ->run00:10
+perlDreamerIs is WebGUI::Error->caught, or Exception::Class->caught?00:12
@Haargthe first will catch any of our exceptions, the second anything using E::C00:12
@Haargso probably the former00:13
SquOnkI'm looking for suggestions. Picture this:00:13
SquOnkWe have a set of assets that should go on the right column.00:13
SquOnkFor pages /a/b/* it should be one set, but for pages /a/c/* it should be a different set...00:14
SquOnk...and for /a/c/e/* it should be a different set...00:14
SquOnk...we current have them manually placed in each page, but were wondering if there was some sort of wildcard way of doing that00:15
@preactioni would suggest different style templates probably00:15
SquOnkpreaction: That's what I thought.00:15
@preactionthe other way would be a navigation00:15
SquOnkpreaction: My partner here had a wicked idea, though.00:15
@preactionbut there would be some weirdness00:15
@Haarga nav set to show siblings may work00:15
SquOnkHow about a macro having a sort of "overloading" feature.00:16
+perlDreamerwait a sec00:17
+perlDreameris it WebGUI::Exception, or WebGUI::Error?00:17
+perlDreamerthe package is WebGUI::Exception00:17
+perlDreamerbut it throws things in WebGUI::Error00:17
@preactionperlDreamer: it's WebGUI::Error00:17
SquOnkYou create assets with URL /a/b/c and /a/b/c/d...00:17
@Haargthe only place you use 'WebGUI::Exception' is to load the .pm00:18
SquOnk...then you use ^OverloadMacro('%/c') which would select /a/b/c for /a/c and every other page below that one, except /a/b/c/d that has a more specific associated asset.00:19
SquOnkHe just wants to write a macro :)00:19
+perlDreamerSquOnk, sounds like the RelativeUrl macro in the Bazaar00:19
SquOnkperlDreamer: Ah, will check. Thanks00:19
+perlDreameror is it RootUrl....00:19
+perlDreamerone of those00:20
+perlDreamerSo I have this exception that is being thrown, but not being caught by WebGUI::Error00:20
+perlDreamerit is caught by an eval, and the right error message from the exception shows up in $@00:20
@Haarghow is it thrown?00:21
+perlDreamerWebGUI::Error::Shop::RemoteShippingRate->throw(error => 'Problem with UPS Online Tools XML: '. $xmlData->{Response}->{Error}->{ErrorDescription});00:22
@HaargWebGUI::Exception::Shop has problems00:26
@Haargits exceptions don't inherit from WebGUI::Error00:26
+perlDreamerthanks, Haarg00:34
+perlDreamermust be time to write some tests for Exception::Shop.pm00:34
+perlDreamerrather, past time...00:40
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11493 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Exception/Shop.pm): Shop exception classes were not subclasses of WebGUI::Error.00:42
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+perlDreamerit's be  nice if there was some kind of introspection that could be done to automatically test any exceptions added, but this oughta do for now.00:54
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11494 /WebGUI/t/ (Exception Exception/Shop.t): Add tests to make sure that Shop exceptions are WebGUI::Errors.00:56
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+perlmonkey2So you have to have a workflow activity in a workflow before you can run it?01:04
elninoOther than collaboration systems, what else might have it's own settings for how it commits changes/postings/versions?01:06
elninook.  Cool. Thanks.01:07
@Haarggallery as well01:07
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elninook. Thanks haarg01:09
+perlDreamerstory manager01:10
@Haargthe ems might, i don't remember01:12
* elnino looks at dbschema01:13
elninostory archive has a approvalWorkflowId?01:13
+perlDreamerof course01:13
+perlDreamerwho knows what kind on unscrupulous people might submit stories...01:14
@Haarghelpdesk would as well, but it isn't core01:14
elninohmm. calendar too?01:15
+perlDreamersounds like we need a wiki page...01:16
elninodataform? Map? (what's that?)01:16
+perlDreamerwhat's Map?01:16
elninoYeah, I was planning on writing on on this.01:16
elninothere's a table called Map01:17
@Haargi think map may01:17
+perlDreamerDataForm, yes01:17
elninomy customer said that his site "never worked this way before." he was using CS, and I showed him how to use shop and the two had different committing settings.01:18
elninothen it dawned on me...01:18
+perlDreamerMap has an autocommit for adding points01:18
+perlDreamereach point is an asset01:18
+perlDreamerMap is WebGUI + Google Maps01:18
+perlmonkey2Why does Thingy create a workflow instance of this class? className=>"WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Thingy"01:19
elninoso what wiki should this be under? user?01:20
+perlmonkey2would be nice if the next developers guide shows an example of creating a workflow instance.01:20
+perlDreamerelnino: developer, I think01:21
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2, you can check t/Workflow/Activity/*.t01:21
+perlDreameror check out Operation/User.pm01:22
+perlDreamerelnino, I guess it depends on the audience.  If you think users would want to know this, then it definitely should go into the users wiki01:22
elninohmm. it appears that any wikis on version tags are under admin.01:22
+perlmonkey2thanks perlDreamer01:22
elninoI find splitting up the wiki is confusing.01:23
+perlDreameri think there's a bug filed for that, elnino.  Your comments about it would be very helpful in getting the issue fixed.01:23
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2, I think className is the type of object it wants to get01:23
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: that doesn't make sense to me in the context of workflows.  Wouldn't a workflow already know what class of activities it will run?01:24
+perlDreameryes, but it doesn't care about the type of objects they receive01:25
+perlDreameraside from shoving the right ones into them, I think01:25
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11495 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Backport exception tests and subclassing fixes.01:25
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11496 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Exception/Shop.pm: Add POD for Exception/Shop.01:25
+perlmonkey2so I should be able to leave that blank since my workflow activity doesn't need an object/?class passed in.01:25
+perlDreamerwhich line in Thingy are we talking about?01:26
+perlDreamerah, I see01:28
+perlDreameryeah, className is the type of object that it want to receive01:28
+perlmonkey2and method?01:28
+perlDreamermethodName is how to build one01:29
+perlmonkey2how to build one what?01:29
+perlDreamera className01:29
+perlDreamerclassName => what I want, methodName => how to build one, parameters => how to customize it01:29
+perlDreamerperldoc Workflow::Instance.pm01:30
+perlmonkey2no idea why an activity would need that, but I'm sure some do.  01:30
+perlDreamerwell, if you want to work on a particular user, you'd need to know which userId to fetch with methodName from className01:31
+perlmonkey2not sure why the documenation for classname and method name are for set instead of create.  maybe create calls set.01:32
+perlmonkey2either way, I didn't find t.01:32
@Haargthe workflow system needs to be able to construct the object to hand to the activities.  the workflow system itself doesn't know anything about the objects it is creating so you have to tell it.01:32
@Haargin your case, you don01:33
@Haarg't have an object so it is simpler01:33
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@tavistowhat's up party peeeeeeeeeeople?01:45
+perlmonkey2tavisto: despairing01:46
@tavistowhy is everyone in a bad mood today? It's been a good day for me and WebGUI leads01:47
+perlmonkey2bah, Instance tries to instantiate an object and pass it to the Activity?  I'm not even passing anything in.01:48
@Haargit doesn't have to01:48
+perlmonkey2tavisto: spends hours digging through code trying to figure something out, make zero progress, and realize how bad you suck.01:48
@tavistoI have 2 trivia questions... 1st one to answer them both correctly gets a handclap and a smiley from tavisto.01:48
@Haargdon't give it that information and it won't try to use an object01:49
@Haarglook at Operation::Workflow::www_runWorkflow01:49
+perlmonkey2Haarg: I'm only passing in the workflowId to Instance-create.01:49
@tavisto#1 - Can you rename Karma easily? (like just by modifying templates)01:49
+perlmonkey2ah, must have been trying to rerun a previously failed workflow.01:50
+perlmonkey2just worked :D:D:D:D:D:D01:50
@tavisto#2 - Is it possible to embed a poll asset into a message board post?  I don't think ^AssetProxy(); works.01:50
@Haargkarma is probably pulled from i18n, so renaming it wouldn't be simple in all cases01:50
@Haargcollab posts usually filter out macros, but you can change that01:51
@Haargit would be dangerous if untrusted people were allowed to post to it though01:51
@Haargalso, when you voted it would take you to the original poll asset01:51
@tavistooh yeah.. that's right01:51
daviddelikatanybody want to peek at the new tabbed help desk tickets?  http://delikat.homeip.net:8080/01:53
@Haarglooks like a good start01:55
@Haargwould it be possible to have close buttons on the tabs themselves?01:55
@Haargalso might be good to have immediate feedback - open the tab right away with a throbber in it or something01:55
daviddelikatI tried to put the close thin in the tab, but it does not work because YUI grabs the mouse click before it gets to my link01:56
daviddelikatI can see about opening the tab earlier01:57
daviddelikatare there any examples you can point out01:57
@Haargmight be able to change the order of the events01:57
@Haargi guess you don't get control over capturing/bubbling using yui's event stuff since it wouldn't work in ie01:58
elninook. http://www.webgui.org/use/community-wiki/version-tags-overview - here's my start thanks haarg, perldreamer! 02:06
+perlDreamerelnino, you are simply awesome02:06
elninoyou didn't read it.  lol02:06
+perlDreamerIf we had 3 people who made as many bug postings, wiki pages and RFEs as you did, WebGUI would be better off02:06
+perlDreamernow, how do we get you to do core contributions?02:06
elninosend my kids to college.02:07
+perlDreamerhm, can I do that with WebGUI karma?02:07
elninolol, well, I try to contribute as I can. you guys have an awesome product! 02:08
elninoI'm going to make supper and go to sleep, signing off....02:08
+perlDreamerlater :)02:08
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* perlDreamer heads off to go shopping, then make dinner, then 02:34
+perlDreameroh dear lord, I'm domesticated!02:34
daviddelikatyou finally noticed?02:37
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daviddelikattheres the close box... needs some style work, and I'm still debugging the 'close function, but it should work fine...03:02
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daviddelikatdo you have an example of the other thing... displaying the 'throbber'?03:09
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@preactionvery nice! i might actually enjoy using this version of the helpdesk03:13
SDuensinHey daviddelikat - one thing bothers me about that help desk...03:20
SDuensin*I* don't have it!  :-)03:20
daviddelikatit doesn't work yet either03:20
SDuensinWell, that's a minor problem.  :-D03:20
daviddelikatit should be out by EOW...03:20
SDuensinOh yea?  Excellent!03:21
daviddelikatnow the tab close/reopen works fine03:34
daviddelikatneeds optimizing though...03:35
SDuensinI just need a help desk / bug board.03:36
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daviddelikatwell, this one is not officialy released, but it is the one they use on webgui.org03:39
SDuensinThought it looked familiar.  :-)03:39
daviddelikatyou can get it from git03:39
daviddelikatyou might ask around if anybody cares if you use it...03:39
SDuensinDoes it still download files instead of displaying search results in Safari?03:39
daviddelikatbut i expect they would welcome another beta sire03:39
daviddelikati dont know03:40
daviddelikatim trying to remember where that bug occurs, i can test it...03:40
SDuensinI think it happens any time you search.03:40
@Haargtry clicking the button instead of pressing enter03:41
SDuensinI'll remember that.03:41
@Haargi looked at the code at one point and it wasn't obvious why it wasn't working, but it's because it isn't trapping the submit event properly.  clicking the button should work though.03:42
daviddelikatit is still a problem exactly as you've described it...03:43
daviddelikatit is also on my list...03:43
SDuensinOk, was just curious.03:43
SDuensinGotta run for a bit.  :-)03:43
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daviddelikatwait till you see my next trick04:00
+perlDreamerDid you see the thing I posted about names with underscores?04:00
daviddelikatum no04:00
daviddelikatis it bad?04:01
+perlDreamernot 100% bad04:01
+perlDreamerbut like 80% bad04:01
+perlDreamerbecause you can't tell which user the bug got assigned to04:01
daviddelikatcan you give ma ahint of a link or something?04:01
+perlDreamerthis bug: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/1061704:01
+perlDreamerI assigned it to Mike_S04:02
+perlDreamerbut that's not what the bug says04:02
daviddelikatsorry thats like greek to me04:03
daviddelikatwhat is a .cdn file?04:03
+perlDreamerdon't worry about the bug, look at who it is assigned to ;)04:03
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2: you're set -> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/hCDhyvZ6hqg/US-Offering-45M-For-Huge-Wind-Energy-Test-Bed04:03
+perlDreamerbut you're going to need a bigger welder04:03
daviddelikatwhos mikes?04:04
daviddelikatis that the problem?04:04
+perlDreamerthat's the thing04:04
daviddelikatthe name?04:04
+perlDreamerI assigned to Mike_S04:04
daviddelikatI get it...04:04
+perlDreamercan you fix it, doctor?04:04
+perlDreameror do we need to take it out behind the woodshed, along with old Shem?04:04
daviddelikatI'll take a look after I submit the current project...04:05
daviddelikatI was working on something related to user ids a little while ago...04:05
daviddelikatits all very curious what kind of odd stuff WG does with bits of data...04:05
+perlDreamernow, I have a general question for the room04:06
+perlDreamerIn the CS, it makes a Post template variable for seeing the user's profile04:06
+perlDreamer$var{"userProfile.url"} = $self->getUrl("op=viewProfile;uid=".$self->get("ownerUserId"))04:07
+perlDreamerbut viewProfile is deprecated, and there's an API for getting the link to a user's profile04:07
+perlDreamerusing the API, however, means making 1 user object for every post in the list04:07
+perlDreamerdo I go the correct route which could be slower, or the fast route, which may not be right?04:08
@HaargperlDreamer, i'm pretty sure the problem happened when you assigned the user04:09
@Haargi just assigned the bug to Mike_S04:09
+perlDreamerthere was no Mike_S in the list that search gave me04:09
carograyhi late night workers04:09
+perlDreamerbut I'll believe you that the problem was PEBKAC04:10
@Haargwell, if the user wasn't in the list that may be a separate problem04:10
@Haargbut mikes is a different user from Mike_S04:10
+perlDreamerthanks for fixing that, Haarg04:11
daviddelikatmy turn...04:11
daviddelikatHaarg: 04:11
daviddelikatwhat is it about WGdev commands that forces them to exit after the run?04:11
@Haargyou are looking at writing your own?04:12
daviddelikatno I'm improvising a shell...04:12
daviddelikattired of waiting for long loads04:12
+perlDreamerwgdev REPL?04:12
daviddelikatI was going for wgsh04:13
@Haargthat behavior should probably change - basically when it started i had some commands that would exit04:13
@Haargso i made them all exit to be consistant04:14
daviddelikatbut even if I put the code in a eval it still exits all the way out04:14
@Haargmore specifically, they would exec04:14
@Haargit calls exit directly04:14
daviddelikatthe exec would be the issue04:14
@Haargso the behavior should probably change so they never exit04:15
@Haargand the case i wanted exit for will just have to use system instead04:15
daviddelikatwhich case is that?04:15
@Haargwgd db04:15
carograyany idea why we get  the message,04:16
carogray "The page you have requested does not exist. 04:16
carograyWhat would you like to do? 04:16
carograyAdd the missing page. 04:16
carograyBack to site." 04:16
carogray After we change a URL and save? 04:16
daviddelikatprobably because the browser is still looking at the old url04:17
+perlDreamerlook for errors in the logs?04:17
@Haargthe change url function or the edit screen?04:17
@Haargit's not a bid deal really, i just figured i would let the os reclaim the memory wgdev was using - it's would be more sane to have it stay running04:17
@Haarg*it'd be more04:18
carograyHaarg:change URL04:18
carograywe were merrily fixing URL's today and then all of a sudden could no longer do it04:18
@Haargasset manager or from content?04:19
@Haargand is the url changing actually failing or is it just reporting that error afterward?04:19
carograyurl changing seems to be actually failing... 04:19
@Haargit sounds like a bug either way, so that should be reported04:19
carograythen can no longer edit asset from either manager or content04:20
carograybig bug04:20
@Haargyeah, that's not good04:20
carograywould there be a reason it was working and then just stopped?04:20
+perlDreamerit's actually a feature04:20
+perlDreamerchanging URLs breaks links to pages :)04:21
* perlDreamer will try anything to prevent new bugs from being posted04:21
carograymore please oh04:21
carograyhere's me getting more an dmore puzzled04:21
+perlDreamerHaarg is right, it needs to be posted.04:21
carograyok... 04:22
+perlDreamerPlease check the log files for errors, and be very detailed with what needs to be done to duplicate the error.04:22
carograylog files are ...? can I do that? hosted on PB?04:22
+perlDreamerwhat kind of server do you have, carorgray?04:23
+perlDreamervirtual host?04:23
+perlDreamershell access?04:24
carograynot virtual host...04:24
carograyI think we did some shell access a couple of years ago...something to do with sudo or something?04:24
@Haargdaviddelikat, if you wanted to work around the exit thing until i get to fixing it, you might look at t/03_WGDev-Command.t04:25
@Haargit has code to trap exits04:25
@Haargthe BEGIN right at the top and sub capture_exit04:26
daviddelikatthats kinda cool04:26
@Haargusing that strategy, the BEGIN defining CORE::GLOBAL::exit needs to be before anything using exit is compiled04:28
daviddelikathere it is wgsh beta http://webgui.pastebin.com/d43f60a4804:31
daviddelikatso far it works OK04:31
daviddelikati have not tested all functions...04:31
@preactionokay, if the next thing is to be able to pipe output from one command into another, you are all buying me new pants04:33
daviddelikatls, edit, package seem to work; thats what I was hoping for04:33
daviddelikatdb does not work04:34
@preactionalso, perhaps a way to call system commands as part of a |-chain?04:35
daviddelikatstart a rfe list04:36
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11497 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm): Remove use of the deprecated viewProfile url param to get a user's profile.04:37
@Haargyou should either fork wgdev and put this up in that or i can give you commit access and you can work on it in a branch04:38
@Haarggithub's issue tracker would work well for an rfe list04:38
daviddelikatI'm not likely to do much more than I have...04:39
@Haargwell, i'd be interested in improving it at some point04:39
daviddelikatits really cool but does not generate revenue...04:39
@preactionwish i had the cash to fund development04:40
@preactionbut my own time is cheaper than other people's time ;)04:40
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CIA-46wgdev: Patrick Donelan master * r16373e0 / lib/WGDev/Command/Package.pm : 04:43
CIA-46wgdev: Fixed bug with Package --output-dir option04:43
CIA-46wgdev: Renamed option to --to since hypenated options are not supported. - http://bit.ly/IqzCq04:43
CIA-46wgdev: Graham Knop master * r0342277 / (8 files in 4 dirs): add tidy command and tidy test and other files - http://bit.ly/BRP3s04:43
CIA-46wgdev: Graham Knop master * r6cb8162 / MANIFEST.SKIP : soem updates and cleanups to MANIFEST.SKIP - http://bit.ly/QzCSQ04:43
@Haargme speel gud04:44
Aspire_TeamHow do I get avatars to display in a User List?  <tmpl_var user_profile_avatar_value> just gives me the asset id04:46
@Haargit's not actually an asset id, but a storage id04:48
@Haargyou should be able to use the StorageUrl macro04:48
@Haarg^StorageUrl(<tmpl_var user_profile_avatar_value>);04:49
Aspire_TeamGreat, I'll try it out.04:51
Aspire_TeamNow the URL shows up instead, i assume I need to wrap it in something so it WebGUI treats it as an image?04:52
Aspire_TeamI guess that is just html04:52
@Haargyou can also send a second parameter to that macro04:53
@Haargif it is 'thumb' it will return the url to the thumbnail instead04:53
Aspire_Teami.e. ^StorageUrl(<tmpl_var user_profile_avatar_value>,thumb); or ^StorageUrl(<tmpl_var user_profile_avatar_thumb>);04:58
@Haargthe former05:00
Aspire_TeamWorks like a charm!  Thanks Haarg!05:08
Aspire_Teamdhelsten here --- logged in on another computer... thanks guys keep up the good work!05:09
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+perlmonkey2George Washington killed his sensai and he never said why.06:17
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+perlDreameris a sensai like a sensei, but american?06:25
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: damn google and it not seeing that as misspelled.  06:28
+perlDreamermaybe I'm wrong06:29
+perlDreameryou know us oregonians06:29
+perlDreamerwe're very stubborn, pushy and opinionated06:29
+perlmonkey2So you're French?06:30
* perlmonkey2 oh snaps06:30
+perlmonkey2I need a hobby project for WebGUI.  Something to do on my own for fun06:31
+perlmonkey2I've been toying with S3 integration, but that would cut into PB's profit model, and I dont' want to do that.06:31
+perlDreamerhow does test writing strike you? :)06:31
+perlmonkey2Like digging ditches :P06:32
+perlmonkey2maybe I could find some beauty in it.  I'm under-experienced in test writing.06:32
+perlDreamerit'll change the way you write code06:32
+perlDreamerIt's like in the Matrix, when Cipher is talking to Neo06:32
+perlmonkey2and add 20% to my total time per task.06:32
+perlDreameractually, no06:32
+perlmonkey2your link said it added 20%.06:33
+perlDreamerright, but it also said there was reduced maintenance06:33
+perlDreamerso it takes you 20% more upfront, billable time06:33
+perlDreamerbut saves you face later in fixing bugs at cost06:33
+perlmonkey2In my case it wouldn't really add to billable time, since I only bill for what it should have taken me, not what it took me :P06:34
+perlDreamergotcha ;)06:34
+perlmonkey2anyways, what did you have in mind with the test writing, or were you speaking of generalities?06:35
+perlDreamerit would just be great to have someone else helping to write tests06:41
+perlDreamerright now I'm at the point where I can point to specific tasks that need to be done06:41
+perlDreamerwrite tests to bring User.pm coverage back up to 100%06:41
+perlDreamerLook into integrating WebGUI::PseudoRequest with Test::Apache206:42
+perlmonkey2well I've got some admin addons to add to 3 wobjects, then tests to write for Crypt, then I can work on some tests for you.06:42
+perlDreamerfigure out a way to autostart a server for WWW::Mech tests06:42
+perlmonkey2why use mech?  how is that different from the api calls?06:43
+perlDreamermech is good for integration testing06:43
+perlDreamermost of the API calls are all unit tests06:43
+perlDreamerso we know that each gear and cog works06:44
+perlDreamerbut the machine is still untested06:44
+perlDreameralso, somethings can only be done from the UI, like authentication06:44
+perlmonkey2mech used to be my favorite plaything06:44
+perlmonkey2for years06:44
+perlDreamerI'd love for the server autostart thing to be written06:44
+perlDreamerwe'll need it for WWW::Mech, and for Selenium06:44
+perlmonkey2back when I was at the university I'd keep 5 servers handling 1MB/s each for days using Mech and Heritrix.06:46
+perlmonkey2autostart?  I dont get it?  Test is ran as root and runs teh wre startup?06:47
+perlDreamerright, we need a config file, database setup from scratch, then start apache and spectre, and then set an environment variable so that all downstream tests know that the server is up and ready for testing06:49
+perlDreamerit's really just chaining WRE calls together06:49
+perlDreamerhm, more like two environment variables06:50
+perlDreamerWEBGUI_CONFIG and WEBGUI_LIVE06:50
+perlDreamerwell, there's also the DNS setup, since any site will need to be able to be resolved by IP06:52
+perlDreamerso maybe the hostname needs to be passed into addsite, so that it gets created with a good website name06:52
+perlDreamersomething like shawshank.localdomain06:52
+perlmonkey2127.0.01 or bust07:05
+perlmonkey2anyways, catch you on the flip side.07:06
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+patspamperlDreamer: howdy07:29
+perlDreamerhey, patspam!07:29
+patspamI'm back from the dead =)07:29
+perlDreameryou been sick?07:30
+patspamnah, just been too busy at $work to hang out on #webgui07:30
+perlDreamerthat happens.07:30
+perlDreamerbetween fathering and work I haven't had time to work on smaller projects07:31
+perlDreamerit takes me 12 hours to get 8 hours of billable work done07:31
+patspamyeah that really sucks, I feel the same thing even without kids in the mix07:31
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SynQcom esta10:03
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Celestarlol. ok the topic redirects me to the wiki, and the getting started of the wiki redirects me to the IRC channel :P12:52
Celestaris there any easy way to import an existing page, especially the CSS into webGUI?12:55
Celestarand could anyone point me to some docs how to do so?12:55
+BartJolCelestar: ah13:05
+BartJollike you have a html page13:05
+BartJoland want to import that?13:05
+BartJolwell, that can't be done automatically13:06
+BartJolI would put the css in a snippet and link to that in the template13:07
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CelestarI have an existing website which I would like to import into webGUI somehow. can anyone point me to do resources?16:04
+BartJolah, you missed my notes Celestar16:13
CelestarI had connection problems :(16:16
Celestaror rather a reboot problem while irssi was running in screen :P16:16
+BartJolBartJol: Celestar: ah16:17
+BartJolBartJol: like you have a html page16:17
+BartJolBartJol: and want to import that?16:17
+BartJolBartJol: well, that can't be done automatically afiak16:17
+BartJolBartJol: I would put the css in a snippet and link to that in the template16:17
+BartJolnot really bringing you forward yet, but I ned to know where you start16:18
CelestarI will give it a try16:18
CelestarI managed to somehow paste some stuff in the wrong place by accident and rendered the admin interface unusable :P16:18
+BartJolbecause of the rendering, some divs will automatically be generated16:18
+BartJolbut inconvenient16:19
+BartJolwhat kinda source do you have know?16:21
Celestarplain static html16:22
Celestarwith a single css16:22
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Celestarwill try in an hour or so16:27
+BartJolgood luck16:36
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+perlmonkey2what's new today?18:08
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+perlDreamerBartJol, you bug posting fiend!18:10
+BartJolI know18:11
+BartJolI'll raise our karma18:11
+BartJolwell, I'll be translating some more in the future, which is good for the # of bugs that are posted and resolved :)18:12
+perlDreamerit turns out that the Post also suffered from the viewProfile bug18:12
+BartJolI saw18:12
+perlDreamerindeed :)18:12
+BartJolperlDreamer: and I i18'd my holiday notice for you again18:14
+perlDreameryou are so kind18:15
+perlDreamerwhere are you sailing this time?18:15
SynQthat is a bit north18:16
SynQthis is more likely: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=friesland&sll=37.579413,-95.712891&sspn=42.109235,112.851562&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=9&iwloc=A18:16
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+BartJolwell, close enough18:17
+perlDreamerseems shorter than the last trip18:17
SynQactually this is the best place: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=cafe+de+watersport+woudsend&sll=52.944837,5.63118&sspn=0.028187,0.040126&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A18:18
SynQthat is where I whish I was18:18
+BartJolsitting on the shore, see other people fumble at the bridge18:18
+perlDreamerah, the good ol' days18:19
+BartJolyes, the beste schippers staan aan wal18:19
SynQin this case: the beste schippers stay at home18:20
+perlDreamerI thought the best shippers came from The Netherlands, drank beer and used WebGUI18:24
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+cap10morganperlDreamer: want to do some bug squashing today?18:36
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SynQlet's go home18:50
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+cap10morganperlDreamer: ok, getting you an instance setup now18:57
+cap10morganthis was an issue upgrading from 7.7.11 -> 7.7.12 right?18:57
+cap10morgan(asks the guy who reported the bug)18:57
+cap10morganah, nope18:58
+cap10morgan7.7.10 -> 7.7.1118:58
+cap10morganok, so setting you up w/ a 7.7.10 instance of that site18:58
+perlDreamerat the very least, we should check to see that the package was imported by WebGUI before calling methods on it so that it would die more gently.19:00
+perlDreamerHaarg, if we can't import a package during upgrade, should that be a hard error with stopping the upgrade, or just a warning?19:01
@Haargwhat would lead to a package failing to import?19:02
+perlDreamerwell, right now possible a bug with Storage.pm19:02
@Haargaside from a serious problem of some kind19:02
+perlDreamerbut ->import is not guaranteed to always work?19:02
@Haargas far as i know it isn't supposed to fail19:03
+perlDreamerand anything we ship should be tested at least twice before it gets to a customer site19:03
+cap10morganperlDreamer: where was that asset test you mentioned the other day?19:07
+cap10morganwould be interesting to run that on this site's DB19:07
+cap10morgansince it's in such bad shape19:07
@Haargthe only case of a package import failure that is handled 'gracefully' is if the package file itself is corrupt19:07
+cap10morganoh yeah, thanks19:07
@Haargand that should never happen for an upgrade19:08
+perlDreamercap10morgan, remember, though.  That test does not give 100% database coverage19:08
+perlDreamerright, Haarg19:08
+cap10morganyeah, i'm just curious what it says on this site's database19:08
@Haargso package import failures should be upgrade failures19:08
+perlDreamerCool.  I'll trap it in an eval and give some better feedback about what's going on .19:09
+perlDreamerpreaction: no new templates today.  They didn't pass the template tests.19:39
@preactiontemplate tests?19:39
@preactionoh, have you been watching the template working group thread?19:40
+perlDreamerthey were almost ready to be installed19:40
+perlDreamerthen I ran t/hardcodedExtras.t, t/i18n/template.t and t/templateChecker.t19:40
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11498 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/ (4 files): Better error handling for importing packages.19:53
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11499 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/upgrades/_upgrade.skeleton: Backporting package import error trapping.19:53
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11500 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.7.13-7.7.14.pl: Another upgraded upgrade script.19:53
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym20:10
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+perlmonkey2Can someone point me at a Wobject which catches the wobject edit returns to process changes to its definition?21:53
+perlDreamerwobjects aren't allowed to dynamicaly change their definition21:56
@preactionthat would be very bad21:56
@preactiondefinition describes the underlying database table (and never vice-versa)21:57
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2: put down the keystone and try that question again, please :)21:57
+perlmonkey2hah.  I mean when someone edits the definition I need to catch that in the wobject in order to affect some special changes.  22:00
+perlDreamerthe only place that does that is Crud22:01
+perlmonkey2In this particular case I want fields to be encrypted set in the definition, butthe wobject needs to make special calls to Crypt::setProvider when this happens.22:01
+perlmonkey2okay, cool, thanks.  22:01
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@Haargthe only thing that comes to mind is saving the definition and comparing that to the current definition after an upgrade22:03
@Haargbut that sounds pretty horrible22:04
+perlmonkey2I thought there was a method from Asset that could be overridden to handle definition posts.22:05
@Haarghandle definition posts?22:06
+perlmonkey2Haarg: well when you submit your edits to the definition.  Or is that Form passed to new?22:06
@Haargnow i'm even more confused22:06
@Haargare you about asset data updates?22:07
@Haargor database structure updates?22:07
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2: are you talking about processPropertiesFromFormPost, or editing code for the definition subroutine?22:07
+perlmonkey2asset data updates22:07
+perlmonkey2from the admin panel when you are editing a new/existing wobject.22:07
+perlmonkey2the definition autoforms.22:07
+perlmonkey2pd that's it.22:07
+perlDreamerthat's pPFFP22:07
+perlmonkey2whew, I didn't have a clue what I was talking about :D22:08
@Haargwww_editSave uses processPropertiesFromFormPost22:08
+perlmonkey2but we got there, even if it was the hard way.22:08
@Haargbut wouldn't you want to handle this at a lower level?22:08
@Haarglike ->update ?22:08
+perlDreamerupdate would be better, then you'd capture ALL data changes to the asset22:09
+perlmonkey2Hmm, I only want when they alter the security tab of the edit form.  Just two drop downs of available fields that can be encrypted and the type of encryption desired.22:10
+perlDreamerbut what if it gets changed via a script?22:10
+perlDreameror via editBranch22:10
@Haargso the actual encryption is handled elsewhere?22:10
@Haarglike in the sql layet?22:10
+perlmonkey2This should be the only way to edit which type of encryption is used.22:11
+perlmonkey2Haarg: the encryption is done by a workflow.22:11
+perlmonkey2well, all the calls to the encrypted field must be wrapped in encrypt/decrypt, but as far as changing types of encryptoin used, the workflow doe sthat.22:11
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2: The old RSS was built that way, and it was a nightmare.22:11
+perlmonkey2This isn't my spec, but was pounded out by JT and Pat22:12
+perlmonkey2But I don't see why it would be a problem.22:12
+perlDreamerI get in trouble for this frequently, but I'd push back on the spec with respect to that.22:12
@Haargit makes sense to use a workflow for the global enable/disable22:13
+perlmonkey2there is only a single way for the encryptoin provider of a field to be altered.  In that instances definition.  decrypt will work as long as the correct provider exists, regardless of the current selected provider, and encrypt always uses the current correct provider.22:13
+perlmonkey2and the workflow is in charge of making sure any changes to the type of provider are eventually executed for all altered rows.22:14
@Haargi think you are using the word definition incorrectly22:14
+perlmonkey2what do you calls a wobjects settings?22:14
+perlDreamers/instance's definition/instance's data/;22:14
+perlmonkey2err, properties.22:15
+perlDreamerin WebGUI parlance, the definition will never be changed by a user, only a developer22:15
+perlmonkey2and the definition means the table schema which defines the wobject?22:16
@Haargroughly, yes22:16
+perlmonkey2okay, whew.  I made that way harder than necessary.22:18
@Haargwhere are you actually storing the information about the provider?22:24
+perlmonkey2Haarg: there will be two tables22:26
+perlmonkey2way, information about hte provider?  Like the keys, its id, etc?  that is in the config file.22:27
+perlmonkey2The providerId will be stored as a property, and also so in the cryptProvidersTable which has the table,field,key,providerId,oldProviderIds22:27
@Haargso using ->update for this wouldn't be right since it isn't acually asset properties that are being modified22:30
@Haargso you'd need to use processPropertiesFromFormPost like you were thinking22:30
@Haargalthough you'd want to have a real api for it and just have pPFFP hand off the new settings to it22:31
+perlmonkey2Haarg: I'm not sure how fancy it needs to be.  It will be calling SUPER so the property is set and then Crypt::setProvider which changes the infor in cryptProviders which is what crypt/decrypt and the workflow use.22:33
+perlmonkey2Not sure what an API would look like for it?  wrapper fo setProvider which also updates the property?22:33
@HaargCrypt::setProvider is basically what i meant i think22:33
@Haargjust used to seeing too much code in pPFFP22:34
+perlmonkey2Yeah, good call.  Whatever processing I have to do, I'll do in a public method.  Doh, I have to do that anyways for testing.22:34
+perlmonkey2Don't want tests having their calls sent to SUPER22:34
+perlmonkey2for pPFFP.22:34
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+perlDreameryou can't catch a bad mysql insert with eval?23:01
@Haargnot easily23:02
@Haargany sql failure usually triggers a fatal error which kills the whole request23:03
@Haargsomething that needs to change in 823:03
@Haargwell, fatal needs to go away entirely23:03
+perlDreamerI see23:06
+perlDreamerI have a dream.  I dream of a day where we subclass DBD::Mysql instead of wrap it23:19
+perlDreamerand save method calls left and right23:19
+perlDreamerand decide how we handle SQL errors23:20
+perlDreamerand all the little programmers would stand around, hand-in-hand23:21
+perlDreamersinging about Coca-cola23:21
@Haargas it stands i think we could entirely eliminate SQL.pm23:24
@Haargit does almost nothing of value given DBI's API as it is today23:24
+perlDreamervery nice23:27
+perlDreamerand selectall_arrayref, too23:27
@Haargmost of the utility methods have equivalents directly in DBI23:28
+perlDreamerso we'd only need setRow ?23:28
@Haargsomething like that23:29
+perlDreamermaybe that could just be an aspect for database collateral23:29
@Haargthe other thing is logging23:30
@Haargbut using DBI's tracing mechanism would work for that23:30
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+perlDreamerpreaction, Haarg, do you have any pending bug commits?23:35
+perlDreamerI'd like to start the release a little early23:35
@preactionno, i'm clear23:35
+perlDreamerno, you're supposed to say, "Oh, I forgot!  Let me get that fixed right away!"23:36
@preactioni'm way too busy to say that :p23:36
+perlDreamerthis is funny: http://twitter.com/sp4449/statuses/255562693823:38
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11501 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: Use WebGUI::Test rollback methods instead of an END block.23:38
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11502 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: Preparing for 7.7.14 release.23:52
--- Day changed Fri Jul 10 2009
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11503 /releases/WebGUI_7.7.14-beta: Release 7.7.14-beta00:38
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11504 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.7.15 development.01:22
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mducharme-workgood evening01:40
mducharme-workI'm working with the thingy object to link two data sets together01:41
mducharme-workit works, and I have links from the Cities and ISPs tables so that each city has an associated ISP01:41
mducharme-workbut if I want to pull the ISP phone number onto the same page as the city data, it uses a different relationship01:42
mducharme-workso the record in the cities table may be linked to two different records in the ISPs table, one per field, which is not what I want01:42
mducharme-workthere has to be some way of pulling the data from both tables onto the same page..01:45
mducharme-workdo I have to use the SQL report wobject to accomplish this, or is there an easier way?01:45
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+perlmonkey2Is there a way to overload the asset update call so that a property is pulled from a table besides its own?02:36
@Haargnot generally02:37
+perlmonkey2Just realized the spec calls for all wobject instances to be able to edit the encryption globally.02:37
+perlmonkey2encryption settings that is.02:37
@Haargnot sure i follow02:37
+perlmonkey2encryption settings will be global for all instances of that wobject.  02:38
@Haargso the settings are per asset class02:38
@Haargthat's not something that should be handled by update02:38
@Haargyou can have pPFFP handle them and pass them off to a different api02:39
+perlmonkey2So say wobject A sets it to 'simple'.  Then wobject B sets it to 'complex'.  Next time wobject A loads, it will think the encryption is 'simple', but actually it is 'complex'.  Because A will be loading the current type from its properties.02:39
+perlDreamerthis is starting to sound like it has bad race condition problems02:39
+perlmonkey2Haarg: but when the properties load I need them to show the global value, not the local value.  I'm guessing this shouldn't be done in the properties edit and should be a different screen.02:40
+perlDreamerwhat happens if someone tries to change the encryption while the workflow is running?02:40
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: no worries, you can't screw up the encryption as long as the proper providers exist.02:40
@Haargif the settings aren't stored in the asset's tables (as defined ->definition) they shouldn't use ->update02:40
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: doesn't matter.  If it is changed mid-flow, the workflow continues as it was, but on a delay or next run, it changes the rows to the new provider type.02:41
@Haargyou can fit it into the edit screen by adding to the form, and process them through pPFFP though02:41
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: actually once it finishes updating it checks to see if anything changed and then would start over.02:41
+perlmonkey2Haarg: you sir are a brilliant man.02:41
+perlDreamerno offense, but /me is getting more skeptical.  Not about the implementation, but about the whole concept.02:42
+perlmonkey2Haarg: wait, where would I access the form for the edit screen?02:42
@Haargi don't really know how your implementation works so it's hard for me to say02:43
+perlmonkey2I'm looking through the asset.pm and not seeing it02:43
+perlDreameryou'd subclass getEditForm and modify the tabform object there02:43
@Haargbut getEditForm i think can do pretty much whatever it wants02:43
+perlmonkey2Haarg: right now I've just added a param to the properties02:43
+perlmonkey2ah, I see02:43
@Haargif it isn't stored in the asset's own table you don't want it in definition02:43
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2, Asset/Sku/ThingyRecord has a good example of doing just that02:43
@Haargbe sure it is clear that the settings are global though since everything else on that screen is per instance02:43
+perlDreameralthough it just stuffs in some javascript02:43
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: right, which is why I'm trying to take it out.  but I still want it to show up in the edit form.02:44
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: thank ye thank ye02:44
+perlmonkey2Haarg: yes, absolutely.  Although no real damage can be done as long as no one edits the config file and removes/edits providers.02:44
+perlmonkey2perlDreamer: trust me, as long as the providers are in tact, you can't mess up the fields.  They are always accessible.02:45
+perlDreamerI look forward to reviewing and extending your tests :)02:45
+perlmonkey2decrypt() doesn't care what the set provider is, it gets the provider from the field's header.02:45
@Haargit sounds like it will all work on a technical level, just the way various parts work together sounds like it could become unpleasant02:45
+perlmonkey2unless the provider is None, then there is no header.02:45
+perlmonkey2its actually a pretty smooth design.  I thoguht it was jacked up until I saw how bullet proof the design was.02:46
+perlmonkey2think of the set provider as just a suggestion to how the fields should be encrypted, and any new encryptions will use that provider.  But decryptions use the current provider per field.  The workflow just makes sure all the new encryptions occur that are needed.02:47
+perlDreamerwhich fields/assets in the db are getting encrypted?02:48
+perlmonkey2 right now I'm just adding crypt functionality to three wobjects and no idea when or even if they'll be moved to head.  responseJSON and a couple of user params.02:49
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r11505 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 02:57
CIA-46WebGUI: Unify tags used for title in the layout templates. They are all02:57
CIA-46WebGUI: now H2 tags, similar to the way they'll be done in the new02:57
CIA-46WebGUI: 7.7 templates.02:57
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+perlDreameranyone have a good online tutorial for how to setup LDAP for authentication?04:15
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+perlmonkey2oh poor perlDreamer.  Entering that hateful world of LDAP.  Next thing you know he'll be asking about LDAPS.05:04
SDuensin...or AD.05:04
+perlmonkey2SDuensin: ah yes, proof we live in a cruel world.05:11
SDuensinYou have no idea.  I may end up back in ASP.NET.05:17
+perlmonkey2SDuensin: at least its .NET ?05:20
SDuensinThat's a consolation?05:20
* SDuensin sighs05:23
SDuensinMy projects have run my funds dry.  Time to get a "real" job for awhile and pay some bills.05:24
+perlmonkey2hah, I'd hustle for handy man work before I'd get a real job.  05:25
SDuensinUnless they need a handy programmer, I'm not of much use.05:26
+perlmonkey2If you can work the hustle, get things done, and schedule things right, you can make serious cash.05:26
+perlmonkey2the world is short of people who can fix random things.05:26
SDuensinI have a random broken drawer, leaky tub, and a few other things of my own.05:27
carograyit's me again more stupid questions06:12
carograyIf I am just trying to test little bits at a time, can I put CSS in the Extra <head> elements (tags) of the metadata tab and then html in the properties of snippet and have it all show up?06:14
carograyie I want to test out a header06:14
+perlmonkey2carogray: seems easy enough just to test?06:21
carograytrying to figure out how the metatags work and looking at applying CSS to small bits at a time06:22
carograycannot get syntax and understanding of what goes where06:22
carograygave up on metadata extra head tags and just put css in properties of snippet06:22
carogray<style type="text/css">06:23
carograythen </head> </style> then enclosed html snippet in body tags - I know this is not the way to do it ultimately06:23
carograybut I just wanted to see if I could make the header look the way I want it to06:24
carograycannot get the background:url('FileUrl(images.blkbar.gif);') to show up, not sure if it's syntax or where I am putting CSS or ...?06:25
carograySORRY - duh. If I could learn to type properly I wouldn't have to be interrupting you guys, just realized when I uploaded the file I gave it the url imagesblkbar.gif not images/blkbar.gif. Stupid - sorry 06:30
carograynever mind06:30
+perlmonkey2heh, I do that all the time06:33
+perlmonkey2no worries06:33
+perlmonkey2This, my friends, is a person devoted to science: http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q184/KengoDrums/Screenshot.png06:34
CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r11506 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/Test.pm: Survey: fixed handling of multi-choice question bundles in Test.pm06:40
CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r11507 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): 06:40
CIA-46WebGUI: FilePump bug fixes06:40
CIA-46WebGUI: Restricted file uris to uploads and extras dirs06:40
CIA-46WebGUI: Validation messages for invalid file uris06:40
CIA-46WebGUI: Updated i18n06:40
CIA-46WebGUI: Added more tests06:40
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topsubwhen you do an user import can you assign the user a group to join?08:20
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mducharme-workperlDreamer: I'm running LDAP for auth right now...18:32
+perlDreamerif you can help me get a test server set up, I can fix a bug18:32
+perlDreamerI don't need organizations, roles, business structures or anything beyond usernames and passwords18:33
mducharme-workthe ldap setup in webgui is confusing because the options are mislabelled18:33
mducharme-workwell poorly labelled18:33
mducharme-worklabelled in such a way that no LDAP directory uses, to my knowledge18:33
+perlDreamerwell, labels can be changed.  It could be that whoever wrote that part used whatever was familiar to them or their company.18:34
SynQit was martin18:35
SynQas far as I'm aware18:35
@plainhaomysql> select * from webguiVersion;18:35
@plainhaoERROR 1194 (HY000): Table 'webguiVersion' is marked as crashed and should be repaired18:35
+perlDreamerSynQ, you blame martin for everything18:35
+perlDreameruh oh18:35
SynQbut of course18:35
SynQplainhao: mysqlcheck -r webguiVersion18:36
mducharme-workwell for starters the ldap URL is generally simple... ldap://serverip:389/18:36
+perlDreamermducharme-work, I actually need help on the _LDAP_ side, too18:36
mducharme-workusing openldap or edirectory or AD?18:36
SynQplainhao: does that help?18:37
@plainhaodid that recover from backup?18:37
@plainhaoi should've asked before i ran the command :)18:37
mducharme-workok, we have a guy here using openldap, I mostly use edir.. he uses phpldapadmin to manage openldap, it looks fairly user friendly18:37
SynQthe command fixes that table18:37
SynQif it can be fixed18:37
+perlDreamermducharme-work: I'm cool with using vim and a commandline18:38
SynQrecovery from backup works differently18:38
@plainhaook, thanks, SynQ18:38
SynQplainhao: did your server crash or something?18:38
SynQsince in that case you might be better off with this command:18:38
mducharme-workperlDreamer if you go that route, then it is much more difficult because you will be creating users by making ldif files and importing them....18:38
+perlDreameryup, but I only need 2 users18:39
SynQmysqlcheck -Ar ALL18:39
+perlDreamerthis is a one-time setup for doing a debug18:39
SynQmysqlcheck -Ar18:39
SynQ-A for 'ALL databases'18:39
SynQand -r for repair18:39
@plainhaoah, ok18:39
@plainhaothanks again, SynQ18:40
SynQno problem18:40
@HaargperlDreamer, please keep track of what you do to set up openldap.  i'm sure we'll want to do more testing with it in the future before we're able to get an automated test setup working for it.18:41
@Haargi've set it up and tested with it in the past but don't remember any of it18:41
SynQperhaps documenting it in the wiki is a good plan18:41
+perlDreamerHaarg, you got it.  I'd much rather have this working with Net::LDAP::Server::Test, but expediency wins in this case.18:42
@Haargthanks, and yeah at some point it would be great to get that worked out18:42
* Haarg notes that it is no longer 'the wiki' :/18:44
+perlDreameryeah :(18:44
SynQwhat is is called then now?18:45
mducharme-workone ldap feature I'd like is there is a lot of data stored in common between the webgui profile and ldap.. it would be nice to have a way of keeping those in sync18:45
+perlDreamerin my selfish opinion, we either need a dashboard so we can monitor all the forums and wikis, or they all need to be merged into 1 place with topic links from the topic sections18:45
mducharme-workwork phone, home phone, address, title, etc18:45
+perlDreamermducharme-work, isn't that in there already18:45
SynQprobably it should go in this wiki: http://www.webgui.org/admin/wiki18:45
+perlDreamersync profiles to ldap?18:45
+perlDreamerand sync profiles from ldap?18:45
+perlDreamerthey are workflows18:45
mducharme-workperldreamer I've never seen an explanation of what that does18:45
@Haargyou can do that mducharme, but it isn't obvious how it is done18:45
SynQmultiple wiki's suck18:46
mducharme-workI tried turning it on but it didn't seem to do anything18:46
SynQthey should all be interconnected18:46
+perlDreamermducharme-work, in return for helping me get this setup, I can swap you some LDAP workflow help.18:46
SynQor at least inherit into a 'master wiki' like the calendar does18:46
SynQI see I just repeated the selfish opinion of perlDreamer in my own selfish words18:47
+perlDreamerSynQ, maybe we should add some comments to the bug that is posted about this...18:47
SynQthat one?18:49
+perlDreamerthis is the point where preaction usually chimes in and says, "I have some code that will fix all this.  I just need some time"18:50
+perlDreamerSynQ: this one - http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/1058518:50
SynQposted one18:50
* SynQ pokes preaction18:51
SynQI think he is vast asleep18:51
SynQI'm also very sad to see that there has been not even one submission for the design contest18:51
+perlDreamerI know.  I'm sorry for that.18:51
SynQthe announcement for the design contest is also hard to find though18:51
SynQI tried to find the rules today18:51
SynQand found myself reloading the page 10 times just to be able to click on the right banner18:52
SynQIt's also not in this list: http://www.webgui.org/promote/inthenews18:52
* perlDreamer pokes tavisto18:52
SynQI would say that the contest should be prolonged for at least 1 month18:53
SynQthe deadline being at the 1st of september would be a good plan18:53
mducharme-workon an unrelated note are there any plans to make the webgui upgrade process any more user friendly?18:53
+perlDreamersure.  And the winner announced at the WUC, perhaps?18:53
SynQgood plan18:54
+perlDreamermducharme-work: what issues are you having with upgrades?18:54
-!- tavisto [n=tavisto@] has quit []18:54
+perlDreamerwe fixed two upgrade bugs this week.  Here's what it took18:54
+perlDreamer1) user posted a bug18:54
+perlDreamer2) user answered questions about the bug with a week of being asked18:54
+perlDreamerit's really quite simple ;)18:55
mducharme-workwell none, but having to read through the gotchas and check carefully for any perl modules that need to be installed in advance before running the upgrade seems like something that could be automated easily enough18:55
mducharme-workbecause I've had upgrades fail before because I had missed a perl module in the gotchas18:55
+perlDreamerperl modules have been left out of the gotchas, too18:55
+perlDreamerbut testEnvironment.pl is almost always up to date18:55
SynQmducharme-work: you should always use the WRE18:56
mducharme-workyeah I do use the WRE18:56
SynQ0.9.3 works fine for current stable and current beta18:56
+perlDreamereven with the WRE, you have to install modules18:56
SynQperlDreamer: not if it's up to me18:56
+perlDreamerwell, have had to18:56
+perlDreamerthanks to SynQ, that's gotten much better18:56
mducharme-workwhy can the module installation not be triggered by the same upgrade pl script that upgrades the database?18:56
+perlDreamersuch a script has been written by cap10morgan18:57
SynQis github broken?18:57
+perlDreamerquite possibly18:57
-!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@] has joined #webgui18:57
-!- mode/#webgui [+v cap10morgan] by ChanServ18:57
SynQthat sucks18:57
+perlDreamercap10morgan: good morning.18:57
SynQthere is the devil18:58
mducharme-workand the upgrade scripts themselves, I always carefully parse through them to look for any errors whatsoever, and it is made even more confusing when lines sometimes end in "... OK!", sometimes end in  "... Done.", sometimes end in "... DONE!" and sometimes nothing.18:58
mducharme-worker when the upgrade runs18:58
mducharme-worknot the scripts18:58
+perlDreamercap10morgan: Please meet mducharme-work.  He's interested in your auto-upgrade script18:58
@HaargSynQ, http://twitter.com/github18:58
SynQin my opinion github sucks18:59
+cap10morganhey mducharme-work18:59
SynQplainblack should run their own git server18:59
SynQjust like they did the svn one18:59
+perlDreamerbut what happens when PB goes down?18:59
+perlDreamerI think the hope was that by running it on an external service it would be more reliable, and less maintenance19:00
@Haargmoving git to someone else's hosting was done on purpose19:00
SynQHaarg: I know19:00
+cap10morganmducharme-work: you have some questions about my new upgrade script?19:00
mducharme-workI didn't even know about it19:00
mducharme-workbut there are lots of things I do not like about the current upgrade process19:00
+cap10morganit's submitted for inclusion in WRE 1.0 at this point, but i use it every day19:01
+cap10morganthe main things it adds are automatic handling of "stop" versions19:01
+cap10morganand automatic installation of newly required perl modules19:01
mducharme-workI had just mentioned that I wish I didn't have to parse through the gotchas file manually to check for new modules I have to install19:01
mducharme-work"stop" versions?19:01
SynQI was going to have a look at WRE development status19:01
SynQbut github is down19:01
+perlDreamerdue to database changes, sometimes you can't always change from one version of WebGUI to another19:01
+cap10morganthose are versions you have to install and upgrade to before you can move on19:02
@Haargluckily stop versions have been pretty predictable for a while19:02
mducharme-workyeah I know you need all the pl and sql scripts to get there in the correct step sequence19:02
+cap10morgancurrently it relies on a json metadata file to know what's what19:02
mducharme-workI've discovered that once when I had to upgrade a really really old webgui to the latest version19:02
SynQI'm going to have to include the perl modules needed for the openId module into the WRE some day soon19:02
+cap10morganeventually that will need to be replaced by a plainblack web service or something similar19:02
+perlDreamerit should be a file in git19:03
+perlDreamerthat drives testEnvironment.pl19:03
+perlDreamerthat way, it's only ever in 1 place19:03
SynQmducharme-work: we have an 'upgrade factory'19:03
+cap10morganor a file in git :)19:03
+perlDreamerso there aren't any differences19:03
+cap10morganmaybe w/ a backup copy on update.webgui.org19:03
+perlDreamermducharme-work: how does this look for an ldif file: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m719a023319:03
SynQwhich is a special VM that can be used for webgui upgrades for versions back till 5.5.419:03
+cap10morganspeaking of which, i need to send rizen a new patch19:04
+cap10morgani fixed a few bugs since i sent that to him19:04
mducharme-workmy other comment is the upgrade scripts should have a common output format for whether the particular steps completed successfully19:05
mducharme-workand error traps, becuase I"ve seen errors in the text output that were not caught by the script and stopped.. and an auto restore from backup would be nice in cases where the upgrade failed due to some error in the database19:05
SynQperhaps a 'upgrade on a copy' would be nicer19:06
mducharme-workI don't rely on the backup in the current autoupgrade script, what I normally do now is before I upgrade, I stop all webgui services and mysql and .tgz the whole /data/ tree19:06
SynQthat you take a copy of the site (a point in time snapshot)19:06
SynQupgrade that copy and if it worked you turn it into the 'working site'19:06
mducharme-workthat would be excellent19:06
mducharme-workthat way there  would be almost no downtime19:07
SynQis there a way to turn a WebGUI instance into 'read only' mode?19:07
mducharme-workbecause one day for some reason there was a duplicate record in the database, dunno how it got there, it was in the sessions table19:07
mducharme-workbut it caused upgrade of one of my sites to fail19:07
mducharme-workit continued on through the upgrades not noticing the problem but the site didn't work afterwards, had to go find and delete the offending row19:08
mducharme-workperlDreamer: typically the objectclass for a user would be inetOrgPerson19:08
+perlDreamerSynQ: not really19:09
+perlDreamerdue to user logging, content metadata and all it pretty much has to be read/write19:09
+perlDreameralso session scratch and caching19:10
+perlDreamerit's doable, just isn't done now19:10
+perlDreamermducharme-work: aside from that is it okay?19:10
SynQperlDreamer: that is a pitty19:10
mducharme-workperldreamer you will probably need to specify an sn and cn as well19:10
mducharme-workand your dn should include the actual object name19:11
SynQperlDreamer: that would be something awsome to work on at the hackaton19:11
SynQmake WebGUI able to switch to a sort of 'snap shottable state'19:11
mducharme-workdepending if you want the object to be referenced with uid or cn, you would use dn: uid=joebob,dc=localhost19:11
mducharme-workor you could use dn: cn=joebob,dc=localhost19:12
mducharme-workoh and it should be userPassword, not password:19:12
SynQI have to go home19:12
mducharme-workthe choice to use "dn: uid=etc" versus "dn: cn=etc" will have a bearing on the webgui config19:13
mducharme-workso you should choose one of those conventions for all the users and stick to it, and you would correspondingly put either "uid" or "cn" into the "LDAP Identity (default)" field in webgui19:14
mducharme-workthe name and help for that field is totally wrong19:14
mducharme-workthe help popup text says it's generally "shortname" but I've *never* seen that before19:15
mducharme-workit's actually in 90% of cases either cn or uid19:15
mducharme-workthat's the most mislabeled piece of the entire ldap setup page19:16
mducharme-workI might like to suggest new labels for some of those ldap settings if anybody is interested in considering them19:16
+perlDreamermducharme, we always listen to suggestions19:20
+perlDreamerwe can't always take them, but we'll always listen19:21
+perlDreamerand if we can't we'll try to tell you why19:21
+perlDreamerwe'll go with cn instead of uid then19:22
+perlDreamermducharme-work: is this better: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m63d8b40c19:23
mducharme-workyeah that looks like it should work19:26
mducharme-workthose are my suggested changes to the labels