WebGUI irc logs from: 2009-07.log

--- Log opened Wed Jul 01 00:00:55 2009
ckotil	must be perlDreamer Time	00:04
@preaction	must be.	00:05
@preaction	he just thinks the world goes round him	00:05
ckotil	thankfully its quittin time. have a good evening.	00:06
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CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11395 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/create.sql: Preparing for 7.6.29 release.	02:08
+perlmonkey2	Is there a Form type that creates a select list which takes an array? I'm not sure why Form::SelectList takes a hash and sets the text as the key value.	02:14
@preaction	perlmonkey2: map { $_ => $_ } @array	02:16
+perlmonkey2	That is certainly a solution :)	02:16
+perlDreamer	tavisto: http://www.mil-oss.org/	02:16
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2, I think this will work, too: join "\n", @array	02:17
@tavisto	interesting..	02:17
@tavisto	I'll actually be in atlanta but on Jul 15-21st	02:18
@tavisto	son of ah	02:18
+perlmonkey2	map only returns a list right? selectList only takes a ref to a hash. or am I missing something.	02:21
+perlDreamer	{ } fixes that	02:21
+perlDreamer	selectList will also take a string	02:21
+perlDreamer	tavisto: I can't tell if that is the military talking to us, or us to present to the military	02:22
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+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: join with \n adds an extra blank choice.	02:28
+perlmonkey2	why can't I figure out a simple selectList?	02:28
+perlDreamer	It's the weather outside	02:29
+perlmonkey2	trying to reverse engineer how to set the selected value in it from the toHtml code is driving me nuts.	02:29
+perlmonkey2	and where is the code that allows it to take a \n delimited string?	02:31
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Form::List, ->getOptions	02:34
+perlDreamer	selectList inherits from that	02:35
+perlmonkey2	yeah, looking at it now. just can't figure out why my [value, defaultValue, default] optoins aren't setting one of the selections to selected.	02:35
+perlmonkey2	getOriginalValue must be satiated.	02:36
+perlmonkey2	it's just too fancy for me.	02:40
+perlmonkey2	guess I should hand code my selectLists	02:40
+perlmonkey2	$f->selectList( name => "provider", options => join("\n",@$classes), label => 'Select provider:', value=> $info->{provider}); should work when value is in the optoins list, but it surely doesn't.	02:41
+perlDreamer	why not add a test to t/Form/SelectList.t to check it out?	02:42
+perlDreamer	maybe it's a real bug	02:42
+perlmonkey2	can't be cause Auth uses it and it appears to work.....well, jsut sec I'll see if it does.	02:43
* perlDreamer is going to take a benadryl-assisted nap		02:43
+perlDreamer	I'll backlog when I'm back	02:43
+perlDreamer	sorry for skipping out on you, perlmonkey2	02:43
+perlmonkey2	no worries, but setting the value works for 'selected' in the Auth usage.	02:44
@tavisto	yeah I'm not sure either perldreamer	02:48
+perlmonkey2	oh this is killing me. It was a firefox rendering issue where 'selected' wasn't being highlighted unless the selectbox had focus.	02:49
+perlmonkey2	this is going to require more beer to numb the pain :P	02:49
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11396 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.6.30 development	02:52
Mech422	mornin all	03:51
@tavisto	Mech422, aren't you in Cali?	03:51
Mech422	tavisto: yeah - but I'm a vampire :-)	03:52
Mech422	tavisto: how goes the DNS stuff ? It looked pretty good this AM	03:52
@tavisto	wow I guess so... I stay up reeeeally late too because I am a night owl.. but I don't get up at 5:52pm and say good morning	03:52
@tavisto	and you are PDT!	03:52
Mech422	well, I went to bed around 10am I think - so thats about 8 hours :-)	03:53
@tavisto	heh, you definitely have me beat there. Yes, the DoS stuff is supposedly over and was at 1am this morning... I thought I was up that late and we were still having issues	03:53
@tavisto	anyway, I'm off to the treadmill.. ttyl :)	03:53
Mech422	I was hitting webgui.org around 5 am and it seemed ok...	03:53
Mech422	ahh - mention my name - I could use some excercise	03:53
Mech422	:-)	03:53
Mech422	ugg - us mil going with drupal ? yeesh	03:54
Mech422	thats just ugly	03:55
+perlDreamer	they need to be saved, Mech422	04:00
Mech422	hey pd :-)	04:01
+perlDreamer	yo, yer Mech-ness	04:03
Mech422	Da Mighty Mech ?	04:03
Mech422	Da Messy Mech ?	04:03
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Mech422	oh - I got my demo site re-assembled on the new wG beta and the wre release	04:04
Mech422	all on 64bit goodness	04:04
Mech422	next thing is : I want to have something like /news/2009/06/30/foo, /news/2009/06/30/bar, etc and on / have the 10 newest entries displayed (newest - show 1 para, other 9 - show 1 line 'teaser' text)	04:06
Mech422	I set /news up as a cs - but I'm at a loss as to how to get / to 'pull' the entries from /news	04:07
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@tavisto	use a Syndicated Content asset	04:38
@tavisto	then give the SC asset the URL of the RSS feed that the CS generates	04:39
+perlDreamer	use the StoryArchive instead	04:42
Mech422	err... Umm ?	04:44
Mech422	Don't use collab system ?	04:45
Mech422	ahh - use the SC as the front page with the RSS feed... gotcha	04:45
Mech422	pd: I'm how would storyarchive fit into this? would it replace the CS ?	04:46
Mech422	god I can't type :-P I'm not sure how storyarchive would fit into this? would it replace the CS or augment it like the SC ?	04:47
Mech422	I'm also not sure how I would go about changing templates so the first item shows more 'teaser' then later items	04:49
+perlDreamer	Mech422, that's built into the StoryTopic	04:50
Mech422	So StoryTopic is part of StoryArchive ?	04:52
+perlDreamer	they're related	04:54
+perlDreamer	StoryTopic lets you pull stories from a StoryArchive by keyword	04:54
@tavisto	i dunno, my rule of thumb is never to use anything that perldreamer built	04:56
+perlDreamer	words to live by, from brother tavisto	04:56
Mech422	heh	04:56
+perlDreamer	of course, I didn't build the matrix either...	04:56
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@tavisto	which is why I use Drupal instead of WebGUI.. since Perldreamer has probably touched all of the code in webgui	04:57
+perlDreamer	so probably only things built by preaction and rizen are safe	04:57
@tavisto	lol.	04:57
Mech422	ok - I'll fart around with SC and the SA stuff	04:57
* perlDreamer suggests less beans in the diet, Mech422		04:57
Mech422	tavisto: oh - I thought that was so you could get those phat mil. contracts	04:57
@tavisto	actually, I think someone should get banned for saying "i use drupal" or "i use joomla" in channel	04:57
@tavisto	yeah I did see that at the mil-oss.org site	04:58
@tavisto	topic of discussion... blah	04:58
Mech422	tavisto: nah - cross pollinization is good	04:58
Mech422	tavisto: know your enemy, etc etc	04:58
@tavisto	good idea, it's time for me to visit the joomla channel and I'll start asking about why I should use Joomla instead of WebGUI	04:58
Mech422	yeah - kinda odd they get a discussion... I would have thought one of the big java based systems maybe - but drupal ?	04:58
@tavisto	since people do that to us all the time	04:58
@tavisto	I wonder if it's the commercially supported drupal	04:59
Mech422	tavisto: good idea :-) and check out the sites too... see how the lure people in, etc	04:59
Mech422	tavisto: for instance, typo3 used to just overwhelm you with a ton of unorganzied information	04:59
@tavisto	i had better not find a guy named "drupaldreamer" over there	05:00
Mech422	huge site, little value	05:00
Mech422	hehe	05:00
+perlDreamer	I could take him	05:00
@tavisto	what if perldreamer is actually a spy and has been taking all of our best ideas and putting them into drupal	05:00
@tavisto	......	05:01
+perlDreamer	no, I only sabotage the code to ruin the reputation	05:01
+perlDreamer	it's much easier that way	05:01
@tavisto	yeah good point, and you're good at it	05:01
+perlDreamer	wait til you see how the ProgressBar blows up	05:01
@tavisto	noooooooooo....don't get to 100%	05:01
@tavisto	it's like the bus in Speed getting to 55	05:01
@tavisto	all joking aside, how much work did it take to get the progressbar implemented?	05:02
+perlDreamer	it took 4 of us about 3 hours	05:02
+perlDreamer	preaction had the core idea	05:02
@tavisto	wow	05:02
+perlDreamer	I wrote the reusable API	05:02
+perlDreamer	and then JT rewrote it to be simpler	05:03
+perlDreamer	now it takes about 45 minutes to add the ProgressBar to a new operation	05:03
+perlDreamer	with hand testing and i18n	05:03
@tavisto	very cool man... I love the fact that you guys can bolt that on to anything in WebGUI now too right?	05:03
+perlDreamer	totally	05:03
+perlDreamer	right now it's used by the Rollback Version tag, delete asset, purge asset, paste asset, reorder asset and promote/demote asset	05:04
@tavisto	ok I'm kinda concerned why I'm hearing gun shots at 10pm when it's dark outside and not hunting season	05:04
+perlDreamer	those are the Zope users	05:04
Mech422	pd: nah - zope users just roll back the transaction to cover their tracks	05:07
topsub	any bug known updating between 7.6.27 to 7.6.29?	05:34
+perlDreamer	nope	05:39
+perlDreamer	what's happening, topsub?	05:39
topsub	nothing, i'm 2 behind just wanted to check before i did the upgrade	05:51
topsub	like last time i ran into something thats all	05:51
Mech422	wow - firefox is really not working well with this new demo site	06:01
Mech422	keeps losing all the css/styling on the page	06:01
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Mech422	pd: Story Archive seems to be part of what I want - it does the 'container' and add/edit story stuff... but how would I go about getting it to do the 'archive' part (eg 2009/06/30/blah)	06:13
Mech422	I _think_ what I want is just a workflow that changes the 'url' field of the stories after X amount of time? but I'm not sure if thats the 'wG way' to do it ?	06:14
+perlDreamer	that is what you want	06:23
+perlDreamer	a custom story archiving workflow	06:23
Mech422	ahh..	06:25
Mech422	actually, I probably want that to begin with - sorta a 'permalink' ...	06:25
+perlDreamer	hm	06:25
Mech422	but I don't want to have to change the SC or SA every month	06:26
+perlDreamer	huh?	06:26
+perlDreamer	you lost me there	06:26
+perlDreamer	it will automatically ignore archived posts, and you can derive the new URL "date phrase" from the date inside the story.	06:26
Mech422	well - I don't want to have to create a new 'folder' (/2009/06, /2009/07, etc) every month	06:26
+perlDreamer	we went through this before :)	06:27
+perlDreamer	wG URLs and hierarchy are separate	06:27
Mech422	yeah	06:27
+perlDreamer	and the story archive makes folders for every day that stories are submitted	06:27
+perlDreamer	go into the Asset Manager and look	06:27
Mech422	ahh - I didn't see that	06:27
+perlDreamer	well, you aren't supposed to ;)	06:27
Mech422	I did notice that story's don't ask for a URL when you add them	06:27
+perlDreamer	yes, they work just like a post, or an event, or a wiki page in that way	06:28
+perlDreamer	the url is derived from the title	06:28
Mech422	ahh - I have a june_30_2009 folder in my story archive	06:29
+perlDreamer	yes	06:29
+perlDreamer	and tomorrow there will be july_1_2009 folder	06:29
+perlDreamer	if I remember correctly, the whole folder is archived at once	06:29
+perlDreamer	rather than story by story	06:29
Mech422	Oh! I _can_ navigate to a day directly!	06:30
Mech422	thats the part that was 'missing' - I can use teststory/storyarchive/june_30_2009	06:31
Mech422	except all the css/themeing appears to be missing	06:31
@tavisto	Okay I'm beginning to get a little worried about Mech422 teaching a large session at the wuc	06:32
@tavisto	I hope he figures this stuff out so that he doesn't mess up the keynote	06:32
@tavisto	;)	06:32
+perlDreamer	it's just a folder, Mech422.	06:33
+perlDreamer	it's not meant to be publicly viewable, kind of private for the Archive	06:33
Mech422	I think its a teminalogy thing... when I have 'archive' I think 'moved to permenant storage'...	06:33
@tavisto	just kidding btw.. Mech422, I'm not trying to piss off a vampire	06:33
+perlDreamer	yeah, I mentioned that to rizen	06:33
Mech422	I think story Archive uses it more in the context of 'collection' ?	06:34
+perlDreamer	but we couldn't find a better term	06:34
Mech422	ahh	06:34
+perlDreamer	it didn't pass the spousal test	06:34
+perlDreamer	the archive is the gateway and repository	06:34
Mech422	tavisto: eh - hang out some garlic, and you'll be fine :-)	06:34
+perlDreamer	the topic is the aggregator	06:34
+perlDreamer	and story is the item of value	06:34
@tavisto	perlDreamer is hairy... like a werewolf... I wonder why you guys are getting along so well	06:35
Mech422	but teststory/storyarchive/june_30_2009/Story_1 doesn't work :-(	06:35
Mech422	so I will need to muck about with url field :-(	06:35
Mech422	in that case, its almost easier to use a cs and just set the url field to '/2009/06/30/Story_1' right from the begginging	06:36
Mech422	and skip the whole workflow thing ?	06:36
+perlDreamer	perhaps	06:37
+perlDreamer	but then you have to do all the lead story work and everything else by hand	06:37
Mech422	no, shouldn't the cs 'blog' view show most recent to oldest by default ?	06:38
+perlDreamer	remember that in the cs "blog" is just a template	06:38
+perlDreamer	post ordering is a setting in the CS itself	06:39
Mech422	ahh - ok - well, I'd have to muck around with getting 'more' teaser on the first entry, and 'less' teaser text for older stories	06:39
+perlDreamer	yeah, StoryTopic does that for you automatically	06:39
Mech422	but I think that would actually be simpler then writing a work flow ?	06:40
+perlDreamer	why not just RFE a request for the Story URL to include the date?	06:40
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Mech422	eh - I figured I broke it so I get to keep both halfs ?	06:41
Mech422	I suppose it is a fairly common use case	06:41
Mech422	if it was gonna be an RFE - I think having it accessible via an 'archive url' right from the start would be good - then it could be used as a permalink ?	06:43
+perlDreamer	well, what you're asking for is to have the date put into the url by default	06:43
+perlDreamer	and it will always have the same URL, regardless of being archived or not	06:44
+perlDreamer	it won't change when it is archived, in other words	06:44
Mech422	yeah!	06:44
Mech422	the 'it won't change' part is the big part for us	06:44
+perlDreamer	so if the intention of the date is to make it a permalink, you don't need it	06:45
+perlDreamer	if it's for some other reason, then you might still need it	06:45
Mech422	the date part makes it easy for us to go back and see what happened on 1968/05/13/Mech_Is_Born	06:45
Mech422	we can go to /1968/05/13 and see all the news for that day	06:46
+perlDreamer	no	06:46
+perlDreamer	that url won't exist in the system	06:46
+perlDreamer	march_13_1968 will	06:46
Mech422	may	06:46
Mech422	btw - why use full month names ? it looks a lil 'odd' ?	06:47
Mech422	or is it for i18n - everyone can interpret that format ?	06:47
+perlDreamer	(08:41:23 PM) perlDreamer: it's just a folder, Mech422.	06:47
+perlDreamer	(08:41:41 PM) perlDreamer: it's not meant to be publicly viewable, kind of private for the Archive	06:47
Mech422	LOL - i18n its unambigous sounds better :-P	06:48
Mech422	no mm/dd vs dd/mm issues	06:48
+perlDreamer	that's true	06:48
Mech422	Hmm - storyTopic is dependent upon the 'keywords' field in the story...	06:58
+perlDreamer	yes	06:58
Mech422	so we need to add a 'dummy' keyword to every story to get them to show up in the topic	06:59
Mech422	hmm - thats badly phrased	07:00
+perlDreamer	have you tried putting no keyword in the topic to see what happens?	07:00
Mech422	yeah - nothing displays in the topic	07:00
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Mech422	being able to have seperate 'views' for each topic is cool - but we need to have a 'master' view of all storys too... umm - thats still not a good discription	07:01
Mech422	am I makeing _any_ sense at all ? :-P	07:01
+perlDreamer	maybe the StoryArchive other assets really don't do what you want, like I thought they would	07:01
+perlDreamer	either that, or you need to write more RFEs ;)	07:02
Mech422	Ah Ha! we need a storyTopic that can do a straight reverse chronological listing of all stories! thats a pretty good description	07:02
+perlDreamer	sure, one that pulls all stories, regardless of keyword	07:03
+perlDreamer	which is kind of what the StoryArchive does	07:03
+perlDreamer	without the lead story template variables	07:03
Mech422	the keyword based listing is really cool for other stuff - like setting up 'deppartmetns' or 'areas of interest' .. .but we need the reverse chron. for the front page	07:03
+perlDreamer	the design spec was for CNN-like news	07:04
+perlDreamer	which doesn't have that	07:04
Mech422	right - I was actually using plain StoryArchive before - I just added the topic when you mentioned it	07:04
+perlDreamer	StoryTopic does the lead story template variables, StoryArchive doesn't	07:04
Mech422	I had thought that chaing the story archive template in StoryArchive migth do this ?	07:05
+perlDreamer	no, those variables don't exist in the StoryArchive	07:05
Mech422	well phoeey	07:05
Mech422	dammit - I _want_ to use StoryArchive :-P	07:05
Mech422	looks like some slick code :-)	07:05
* perlDreamer is biased		07:06
@tavisto	tavisto still unhappy that PerlDreamer did not acknowledge his werewolf vs vampire joke	07:07
Mech422	maybe I could tear apart the StoryTopic template and get it to grok story's with no keywords	07:07
* perlDreamer intends to bite tavisto net time we meet		07:07
+perlDreamer	prepare to join the pack, brother	07:07
@tavisto	tavisto shows his teeth Sorry bro, I'm on the other team	07:08
+perlDreamer	you can be a hybrid lycan	07:08
@tavisto	oh great... so I gotta buy a $15,000 battery after I'm midway through my life	07:08
Mech422	I take it underworld was big around the pb offices ?	07:09
@tavisto	son of ah.. this sucks	07:09
@tavisto	anything sci-fi, fantasy, etc... pretty much is.. Lots of geeks and nerds roaming around PB	07:09
Mech422	hmm - you can't limit a storyTopic to just 1 keyword or a specific group of keywords ? so I can't have a 'sports' storyTopic and a 'tech' storyTopic ?	07:11
Mech422	tavisto: heh - my eq2 addiction is finally showing signs of petering off	07:12
+perlDreamer	if you have a story with keywords sports and tech, it would show up in both topics	07:12
+perlDreamer	otherwise, you only get stories with the topic's keyword in it	07:12
@tavisto	eq2 is still going?	07:13
@tavisto	wow	07:13
@tavisto	that's like telling me you are still playing Dark Ages of Camelot online	07:13
Mech422	perlDreamer: umm - I can't find where to ...oh its on the metadata tab	07:13
+perlDreamer	:)	07:13
@tavisto	That's like telling me you are running WebGUI 4 right now	07:13
+perlDreamer	which means that if there's no keyword in the topic, you get all stories?	07:13
+perlDreamer	isn't that what you wanted?	07:14
Mech422	all stories _with_ a keyword	07:14
Mech422	tavisto: actually - eq1 is still going... and sony just announced expansions for both eq1 and eq	07:14
Mech422	err..eq1 and eq2	07:14
Mech422	we could get around keywords just by forcing the clerk to input a dummy 'story' keyword for each story	07:15
+perlDreamer	sure, or add it to your custom commit workflow	07:15
+perlDreamer	or, change the edit form to hardcode it	07:16
+perlDreamer	since that's templatable, too	07:16
Mech422	ahh - changing the edit form would prolly be the path of least resistance	07:16
+perlDreamer	set the keywords to be hidden in the form and set to "mandatoryKeywordBecausePerlDreamerIsANazi"	07:16
Mech422	ROFL	07:16
@tavisto	wow, you gotta be kidding me	07:16
@tavisto	although I think Ultima Online is still going somehow	07:16
@tavisto	that was and is still my favorite game. That's how Rizen and I met actually	07:17
Mech422	yeah - I think the ultima server code is out in the wild	07:17
Mech422	but eq is on its 10 year anniversary and eq2 is on its fifth I think	07:17
@tavisto	oh yeah it's been for years. We ran our own server and that's really how Rizen and I met. We were both GMs on the server	07:17
@tavisto	insane.	07:18
Mech422	I'm looking forward to one called earthrise	07:18
Mech422	I'm getting pretty annoyed with class based games	07:18
Mech422	especially for crafting	07:18
Mech422	use based or point based seems the way to go	07:19
@tavisto	yeah I love MMORPGs and used to play, get burned out, then sell my accounts	07:21
@tavisto	but I just dont have the time. It's 12:21 right now and I'm sending email	07:21
Mech422	I'm like that with most stuff - compulsive about it for 6 months, then hang it up	07:21
@tavisto	Ive been on the computer today since 10am, except for 45 minutes on a treadmill, changing some sprinklers in my yard, and going to get subway. What a great day.	07:21
Mech422	that's why contracting was always so much fun - 6 months then off to a new challenge	07:21
@tavisto	yep, that's true.	07:22
Mech422	lol - thats a short day for me :-P	07:22
Mech422	but I have no life :-P	07:22
Mech422	my friends all moved out of silicon valley years ago	07:22
Mech422	I'm like the last hold out :-P	07:23
@tavisto	yeah they apparently didn't want to pay the outrageous taxes eh	07:23
Mech422	nah - they just couldn't find new jobs paying $125K+	07:23
Mech422	lots of people around here went from 90+ year to 50 year	07:24
@tavisto	ouch	07:24
Mech422	yeah - middle management of course	07:24
Mech422	but also techies	07:24
Mech422	lots of php/perl/python people	07:24
Mech422	.net and java seemed to stay pretty much the same though	07:24
Mech422	which is surprising considering how over payed java guys are	07:24
@tavisto	So are you liking WebGUI as you learn more about it? And are you able to use it in more of your projects? Or do you still find Plone to be a better system for you?	07:25
Mech422	heh - some pretty subjective things there	07:25
@tavisto	I'm curious since you are fairly new and have been playing with WebGUI awhile	07:25
Mech422	the _biggest_ impression I get is that I'm the first 'new' webgui 'developer' in a long time	07:25
Mech422	there seems to be a big gap in between 'user docs' and 'god mode'...	07:26
@tavisto	mmmm... well atleast in IRC you are	07:26
Mech422	like everyone that works on webgui either is an end user, or already knows it inside and out	07:26
Mech422	LOL	07:26
@tavisto	I actually talk to quite a few new peeps that download it and aren't active in the community.. but mod stuff to their own needs	07:26
@tavisto	of course... we only hear from people like that if they need support contracts, or want to purchase something. :)	07:27
Mech422	wow - I'm slacking then :-P	07:27
@tavisto	nope, you have more of an interest in being active in the community... which is a great thing	07:27
Mech422	no I mean on learning webgui	07:27
Mech422	even with the time I spend working with it - I don't really feel I 'understand' it..	07:28
Mech422	but then again - it was the same with plone at first too	07:28
Mech422	thats just part of workign with a large system	07:28
@tavisto	yeah, I guess it is. I've been working with it since we started so I kinda pieced it together as we went	07:29
@tavisto	but I'm also not a dev	07:29
Mech422	:-)	07:30
Mech422	its definately got a learning curve	07:30
elnino	wegui has a different philosophy than anything eslse I've seen	07:30
elnino	that was my learning curve	07:30
Mech422	elnino: oh? in what way ?	07:31
@tavisto	elnino is a developer	07:31
@tavisto	I never knew it until one day when we started talking more in here	07:31
Mech422	heh - its the quiet ones ya gotta watch ;-P	07:31
elnino	I'm not sure how to respond.	07:32
elnino	I dont' develop for pb.	07:32
Mech422	I'm just curious as to what difference you noticed ?	07:32
@tavisto	no, I'm saying in general though	07:32
elnino	but I have 15 years.	07:32
elnino	philosophy in gui, not in programming. Tho I'm really impressed with the programming once I got into that part.	07:34
elnino	and I really don't have many things to compare webgui to, I started with mambo, joomla, asp.net. I dont' even know where to start on the differences there.	07:34
Mech422	heh - having the buttons on the 'wrong' sides of the forms thru me at first... :-P	07:35
elnino	those are the only other cms's I'ved worked with	07:35
Mech422	I'll be interested to see how things go as I spend more time with it	07:36
@tavisto	That's because they were on the 'right' side	07:36
Mech422	yeah - having them so you don't have to scroll is more logical - though not what you generally encounter	07:36
Mech422	I guess every large system has a 'mindset' you have to get into...	07:38
+perlDreamer	very true	07:38
Mech422	zope/plone are obvious about it - "the zen of zope" "zope zen" etc etc	07:38
Mech422	but its just a fact of life	07:39
+perlDreamer	Mech422, just think like a smiling, purple octopus	07:40
+perlDreamer	it'll all be fine	07:40
+perlDreamer	as long as Cthulu doesn't get jealous that we're tripping on his vibe	07:40
Mech422	hehe	07:40
Mech422	well my next tasks will be learning how to grab content from other 'parts' of the site	07:40
+perlDreamer	shortcuts and snippets	07:41
Mech422	like reaching into a storyArchive and listing its contents or pulling blog entries	07:41
Mech422	ahh -but how do you actually reference the cotent and 'grab' it ?	07:41
Mech422	$this->somecontent.getValue() ?	07:41
+perlDreamer	are you talking codewise, or template wise?	07:41
Mech422	prolly start in templates - should be simpler right ?	07:42
+perlDreamer	simpler, but more limited	07:42
+perlDreamer	because you're only given a particular set of variables	07:43
+perlDreamer	and no programming control	07:43
+perlDreamer	you could switch to Template::Toolkit	07:43
Mech422	no looping ? say I wanted to make my top ten list ?	07:43
+perlDreamer	if you want to make it out of things that you are given, that's fine	07:44
Mech422	I can't setup a 10 item loop in a template ?	07:44
+perlDreamer	sure you can	07:44
Mech422	ahh	07:44
+perlDreamer	but only if that template has a loop	07:44
Mech422	umm - aren't I creating the template? can't I just give it a loop?	07:44
+perlDreamer	the template can work on a given set of variables	07:44
+perlDreamer	for example, go to your dev site, and turn on admin mode	07:45
Mech422	already on :-)	07:45
+perlDreamer	from the admin console, click on the Life Saver icon for Help	07:45
+perlDreamer	Find the Article template	07:45
+perlDreamer	and click on that link	07:45
+perlDreamer	that is a complete list of all template variables that an article template can use	07:45
Mech422	ok - but you said 'no programming control' - I took that to mean 'no looping, no conditionals' ?	07:46
+perlDreamer	no, the templating engine supports both of those	07:47
+perlDreamer	but, you cannot give the template an object and allow the template designer to call arbitrary methods on it	07:47
Mech422	ahh - ok, thats pretty common	07:47
+perlDreamer	you can do that in Template::Toolkit	07:48
+perlDreamer	but WebGUI still won't pass you the objects	07:48
+perlDreamer	just the same regular old variables in TT syntax instead of HTML::Template syntax	07:48
Mech422	yeah - plone has the concept of 'restricted' methods	07:49
Mech422	you have to 'flag' methods as web accessible	07:49
Mech422	(believe it or not - a method with no comment can't be hit from the web :-P )	07:50
+perlDreamer	we have that in webgui as well, although a little differently	07:50
+perlDreamer	only subs that start with www_ are allowed to be called by the content engine	07:50
Mech422	but how do you 'traverse' the site to find 'objects' (atoms? pages?)	07:51
+perlDreamer	from the template, or from the content engine?	07:51
Mech422	ahh - that makes more sense then the stupid comment thing - that bit me many a time	07:51
Mech422	from a template or snippet ?	07:51
+perlDreamer	from the template, you are in a small, isolated world	07:51
Mech422	say I wanted a 'steves recent blogs' box that listed my last 5 blog entries - that I could put all over my site (ie in different locations)	07:52
+perlDreamer	in that case, I would make a shortcut of the blog with a custom template that only listed 5 things	07:52
+perlDreamer	or, I'd use a syndicated content asset	07:52
Mech422	Hmm...	07:53
+perlDreamer	if you want it all over your site, then you mark it as a package so that it can be deployed multiple times on the site	07:53
+perlDreamer	so it's done at the Asset level, not at the template level	07:53
Mech422	and what if it wasn't a 'static' resource - like say a 'today in history' box	07:53
Mech422	where you had a folder for every day of the year with fun facts about that day	07:54
+perlDreamer	okay	07:54
+perlDreamer	and the folder is full of snippets?	07:54
Mech422	err..ok...	07:54
Mech422	snippets text whatever	07:54
+perlDreamer	and you want to pull one snippet out and display it on some page?	07:55
Mech422	how do you dynamically get a reference to a particular day (folder) and list its contents ?	07:55
+perlDreamer	AssetProxy macro	07:55
Mech422	ahh	07:55
+perlDreamer	use the Date macro to build the date part of the URL	07:55
@tavisto	there is a ^RandomAssetProxy macro too if you want to pull random assets	07:55
+perlDreamer	or, if it was a SQL table, you could use the SQL macro to do it	07:55
@tavisto	you can also use the advertising engine to serve up random images if that's what you want to do	07:56
Mech422	I think AssetProxy would be the next thing for me to read up on then..	07:56
+perlDreamer	Mech422, this is what I recommend	07:56
+perlDreamer	Read the WebGUI primer from top to bottom, twice	07:56
+perlDreamer	then read the whole Macro book	07:56
Mech422	though I think I'm gonna have a lot of 'unlearning' to do	07:57
+perlDreamer	Are you afraid?	07:57
+perlDreamer	You may be too old to undergo the training	07:57
+perlDreamer	I have been teaching WebGUI newbies for 300 years	07:57
Mech422	afraid - no ? looking forward to it ? no ? :-P	07:57
@tavisto	318 years.. and you are getting old and forgetful now	07:57
Mech422	http://www.plyonshq.com <- this is the sort of thing I look forward too...	07:57
+perlDreamer	Sorry, 'www.plyonshq.com' does not exist or is not available.	07:58
Mech422	you might want to take a look - docs are decent but not great ... the core is 'small is beautiful' :-)	07:58
Mech422	crap - sorry its http://www.pylonshq.com	07:58
Mech422	mimimalist web framework with numerous interchangable parts	07:59
@tavisto	ooooh nice	08:00
@tavisto	Hao just posted to staff blog	08:00
Mech422	no where near the functionality the wG offers - its more for web apps then cms	08:00
@tavisto	talking about the possibility of 1-page checkout in wG ecommerce	08:00
@tavisto	wahoo!	08:00
@tavisto	perldreamer, you and I have been interested in that since the beginning	08:01
@tavisto	topsub did that awhile back on his own and it was pretty slick	08:01
+perlDreamer	nice	08:01
elnino	what is http://www.cmsinfo.org supposed to be about? there is a blog aobut webgui, but it's really old.	08:01
@tavisto	looks like they covered WebGUI announcements for awhile	08:03
+perlDreamer	then we changed the RSS url out from underneath them	08:04
+perlDreamer	twice	08:04
Mech422	is Aegir - that became the Asgard cms didn't it ?	08:04
@tavisto	night all	08:04
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Mech422	nite tavis!	08:04
elnino	bye	08:04
Mech422	lol -midguard - I haven't looked at htat in years...	08:05
Mech422	pd: anyway - seems like I'll have a bunch of 'unlearning' to do - in plone you 'traverse' (navigate) to the object, and in wG it seems you bring the object to you (via shortcuts,proxy,etc)	08:06
+perlDreamer	that's correct	08:07
elnino	does anyone know ehab?	08:09
+perlDreamer	he watches TBB, and might monitor the dev forum	08:10
elnino	what's TBB	08:10
+perlDreamer	The Black Blog	08:10
elnino	does he log in here?	08:10
+perlDreamer	never seen him in here	08:10
elnino	k.	08:11
Mech422	Should a storyArchive be inside a pageLayout ?	08:11
elnino	i'm sleepy. I'm going... fast...	08:11
elnino	bye	08:11
Mech422	bye elnino!	08:11
+perlDreamer	'night, elnino	08:11
elnino	later!	08:11
+perlDreamer	Mech422, it can part of a page layout if you wish	08:11
+perlDreamer	or it can work standalone	08:12
Mech422	I'm just trying to figure out why my css and stuff keeps dissappearing	08:12
Mech422	but its doing it on the admin side too - and I didn't touch any of those templates	08:12
Mech422	its happening on both ff and opera	08:12
Mech422	so prolly not a browser cache thing	08:12
+perlDreamer	probably not	08:12
+perlDreamer	is IE doing it, too?	08:13
Mech422	wtf? uggh - I hate lil annoyances :-P	08:13
Mech422	umm - lemme check	08:13
Mech422	blah - my keyboard is hosed in windows	08:15
Mech422	vista does NOT seem to like this ms usb keyboard :-P lemme check on the other machine	08:15
Mech422	ok - yes, it does it in IE to	08:18
+perlDreamer	what do you do to make the CSS and stuff disappear?	08:18
Mech422	its prolly something to do with giving the site a name but using numeric ip to access it	08:19
Mech422	editing a story in the story archive , click 'save', then click 'back to site' and you get back to the storyarchive with missing css	08:19
Mech422	but it happens all over the place, so I'm assuming its a stupid configuration thing on my side	08:19
+perlDreamer	is your story archive inside of a page layout?	08:19
Mech422	yeah - thats why I asked	08:20
+perlDreamer	okay, that sounds like an asset focus issue	08:20
+perlDreamer	try this	08:20
+perlDreamer	go back to your dev site's home page	08:20
+perlDreamer	then go to the page with the archive on it	08:20
+perlDreamer	then click on add page	08:20
+perlDreamer	and watch the url	08:20
+perlDreamer	the URL is different, you're actually looking at a different "page"	08:21
+perlDreamer	that page is made by the _archive_, not the page layout	08:21
+perlDreamer	so if the archive and layout have different styles, then they will look different	08:21
Mech422	add page ? you mean add page layout or add story ?	08:22
+perlDreamer	add story, sorry	08:22
Mech422	ok - with you so far	08:23
Mech422	buth when I go 'back to site' - shouldn't I get my stuff back ?	08:23
+perlDreamer	only if it takes you back to the layout instead of the archive	08:23
* perlDreamer suspects it's taking you to the archive		08:23
Mech422	your right	08:23
Mech422	ok - so thats that	08:23
+perlDreamer	to fix that, edit the style and set it to use the same style template as the page layout	08:24
Mech422	different - but still no styling	08:26
+perlDreamer	do you have CSS in the page layout template itself?	08:26
+perlDreamer	because the Archive would not get that unless it was rendered inside the layout	08:27
Mech422	its in the source	08:27
+perlDreamer	source?	08:27
Mech422	lemme try firebug - its prolly just not getting the css due to name vs. ip crap - document source has css file	08:27
Mech422	(references css file rather)	08:27
+perlDreamer	okay	08:28
Mech422	actually, it says it got the css file	08:31
Mech422	I'll worry about that later - its gotta be something silly as it works	08:32
Mech422	as it works most of the time	08:33
Mech422	huh - the front page gives 302 'found' messagges but when its 'broken' the css comes back as 304 'not changed' ?	08:34
Mech422	not sure if thats significant	08:34
Mech422	ok - gonna haul my lazy butt out for a walk..	08:40
Mech422	g'nite pd!	08:40
+perlDreamer	later, Mech422	08:42
* perlDreamer is heading to bed		08:42
+perlDreamer	my laptop is so hot I can smell solder	08:43
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+bartjol	it's admin!	16:17
mech422	Umm - I thought I was Steve! ? :-P	16:21
mech422	And how is Mr. bartjol this fine morning ?	16:21
+bartjol	well, mainly warm	16:22
mech422	oh? warm as in nice weather, or warm as in building a/c broke and your surrounded by heat generating pc's ?	16:22
+bartjol	mainly nice weather	16:23
+bartjol	so that's ok	16:23
mech422	ahh yes, much nicer then the too many pc's thing :-)	16:24
mech422	I'm getting rather annoyed, as something seems to be slightly off with my new vista64 based desktop	16:24
+bartjol	only 6 in this room	16:24
mech422	I'm running debian in VirtualBox on it, and its sorta 'wierd'... like now, kde isn't showing desktop previews correctly	16:25
+bartjol	and hoping that ff3.5 really is better	16:25
mech422	ohh - donna got it yesterday - she seemed to like it ok - no complaints but no jumping for joy either	16:26
+bartjol	mm	16:26
+bartjol	well, I had problems lately with 3.0.11 crashing	16:26
+bartjol	and eating 500+ MB of mem	16:26
mech422	I'm thinking it might be the seagate 1.5TB drives	16:27
mech422	I read there was a lot of problems with the early versions - and the drive the vm image is on sorta 'clicks' on a regular basis - like the head is stepping all the way in/out	16:27
+bartjol	well, I can't help you on this one	16:29
mech422	heh - I'm looking at the configuration... I seem to recall there was a check box somewhere that controled the desktop preview thingy in the pager	16:30
mech422	ahh - somehow 'window thumbnails' got turned off...	16:34
mech422	bartjol: do you happen to do much js ?	16:35
+bartjol	alas	16:35
+bartjol	but I can always try	16:36
mech422	heh - I thought I might read up on it a bit - I was just curious if you had any recommendations for toolkits..	16:36
mech422	wG uses YUI, plone uses JQuery, then there's dojo, and prototype...	16:37
+bartjol	well http://www.ja-sig.org/wiki/display/UP3/Javascript+Toolkit+Comparison	16:37
mech422	Oh very cool!	16:37
mech422	thanks :-)	16:37
+bartjol	google is my friend	16:38
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mech422	heh - forgot about mochikit	16:38
SquOnk	Hi everyone	16:38
SquOnk	Updated 7.6.29 packages for Debian in my repo.	16:39
SquOnk	Hopefully, the 7.6.30 package will have automatic database maintenance.	16:39
+perlmonkey2	This is incredible. When I load an admin page I'm working on in FF3.5b4, I can't start up firebug and none of my FF menu bars are clickable.	17:03
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+perlmonkey2	Me thinks something is rotten in the state of Denmark	17:07
+perlmonkey2	and by Denmark I mean Firefox.	17:07
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mech422	Hmm - MS is supporting jquery ? didn't know that	17:14
mech422	crud konqui crashed	17:14
mech422	dammit!	17:14
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@tavisto	so mech422, have you mastered WebGUI in the last 6-8 hours?	17:23
SquOnk	lol	17:24
* SquOnk is teaching one of his minions how to create a WebGUI style		17:25
SquOnk	We're deploying WebGUI for the Venezuelan Ministry of Economy and Finances.	17:26
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SquOnk	Once it's online, we'll probably get permission to list it in webgui.org	17:26
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+bartjol	aaah , minions roasted with garlic	17:36
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+bartjol	perlmonkey2: what is wrong with ff today	17:45
+bartjol	I find it rather refreshing after 3.0.11	17:45
+bartjol	and firebug works ok for me	17:47
+bartjol	maybe I have a superior OS originating from the Redmond area	17:48
+perlmonkey2	bartjol: no idea. The problem was a simple admin panel screen with a select list. Yesterday I thought the selectList lib was broken when the default item wasn't being selected. Turns out Firefox just wasn't highlighting it. That magically resolved itself after several FF restarts.	17:56
daviddelikat	holy cow, firefox footprint doubled...!!!	17:57
+perlmonkey2	Then today it was doing the same thing only Firebug wouldn't start and the menu bar was unresponsive (although I could still click on links and use the web pages and tabs).	17:57
+perlmonkey2	But after killing it 5 or so times it started working again.	17:57
@Haarg	what version of firebug?	17:57
+bartjol	the beta	17:57
+perlmonkey2	1.4.0b3	17:57
+perlmonkey2	and I'm on FF3.5b4	17:58
+perlmonkey2	If this keeps up I'll install a temporary local of the new release. But I like to stay in tune with the repo.	17:58
+bartjol	ah the morning ritual of restarting a browser 5 times with a cup of coffee	17:59
+perlmonkey2	hah, if only. More like restart it, click on page, look at logs, try to get firebug to do more than load unactivated panels. 'killall firefox' repeat.	17:59
+bartjol	what kinnd of os are you running>	18:00
+perlmonkey2	starting to lose faith in Gecko and starting to get mighty curious about Webkit.	18:01
+perlmonkey2	Fedora 11	18:01
+bartjol	no one is running that here	18:01
+bartjol	:(	18:01
+perlmonkey2	Which otherwise has been a dream. Every issue I've ever had with Linux on this laptop has been resolved with things looking sharp and behaving beautifully.	18:01
@Haarg	sounds like you problems are more firebug related than gecko	18:01
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: even with the menu bar becoming unresponsive?	18:02
+perlmonkey2	next time it repeats I'll disable firebug and see if that resolves it.	18:02
@Haarg	from what i've heard firefox works significantly worse on linux though	18:02
@Haarg	than either windows or mac	18:02
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: no idea. I used Opera on Mac and haven't used windows in...well, half a decade.	18:03
daviddelikat	so, I'm reading all this about ff3.5; I go and upgrade, before upgrade I have firefox at 35M RAM after I upgrade its at 101M! is this supposed to be better?	18:03
+perlmonkey2	bartjol what do people run there? Windows and Ubuntu?	18:04
+bartjol	and some apple like stuff	18:04
+bartjol	not sure about ubuntu	18:04
+bartjol	oh, yeah, we have that	18:04
+perlmonkey2	daviddelikat: I've never seen 35MB level usage. I've always been somewhere around 100MB with FF.	18:05
+bartjol	daviddelikat: for me it went down from 500 MB to 240 MB	18:05
daviddelikat	wow! thats impressive	18:05
+bartjol	but I use a lot of tabs	18:05
daviddelikat	I wonder what I'm doing ...	18:05
+bartjol	yeah	18:05
+bartjol	well I think 400 was average	18:05
daviddelikat	I use tabs for ~everything~	18:05
+bartjol	at 500 it began to crash	18:06
daviddelikat	but I've got the same 4 tabs now that I had befpre I started...	18:06
+bartjol	mmm	18:06
+bartjol	strange	18:06
+perlmonkey2	bartjol oh, wish me luck. You asked about what I used which made me remember that compiz used to lock up my onboard video card. So I just now started it for the first time in years. Here's to hoping I can get flashy wizbang without annoying lockups :D	18:06
+bartjol	maybe a higher base amount, but less per tab	18:06
daviddelikat	I guess I'm not done looking, I'll have to tryt leaving some JS runnign over night and see what happens	18:06
+bartjol	I wish you luck perlmonkey2	18:06
+perlmonkey2	bartjol you are a good fellow	18:07
+perlmonkey2	:P	18:07
+bartjol	don't stick out your tongue at me! ;)	18:07
@tavisto	bartjol, I have a picture of gooey on his own boat	18:09
@tavisto	a very large sailboat (for him)	18:09
@tavisto	I'll let you know once I put it in the gooey on the go gallery	18:09
+bartjol	tavisto: ah, cool, more gooeys on boats	18:11
+bartjol	perlmonkey2: did it work?	18:12
+perlmonkey2	bartjol still here without lockups enjoying my compiz wizbang	18:15
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+perlmonkey2	bartjol I mean not sure whom bartjol is	18:17
+perlmonkey2	hmm, not sure why I keep getting lower case b's	18:17
+bartjol	no?	18:17
+bartjol	I am me	18:18
+perlmonkey2	Bartjol my tab complete keeps using the lower case.	18:18
+perlmonkey2	well that is weird, the user list only shows a single Bartjol but tab complete thinks there are two.	18:18
+bartjol	ah	18:18
+bartjol	strange	18:19
+bartjol	I am the good part of the twin	18:19
* perlmonkey2 is having many strange technical difficulties today, perhaps he should embrace ludditism.		18:19
-!- bartjol is now known as BartJol		18:20
+BartJol	and now?	18:20
+perlmonkey2	BartJol: ah, there we go	18:21
+perlmonkey2	on a single BartJol for my autocomplete :)	18:22
+perlmonkey2	s/on/only/	18:22
+BartJol	something strange happened to my nick	18:22
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mech422	ahh! its not my computer	18:47
mech422	jqueryvsmootools.com crashes konqui!	18:47
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mech422	heh - thought I had bad disk or bad mem for a bit there	18:48
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@tavisto	it's the koolaid that you spilled on your laptop last week	19:06
mech422	tavisto: hehe - att least I didn't drink da kool-aid ba dum bum	19:11
mech422	:-)	19:11
@tavisto	wait.. at&t?	19:11
@tavisto	are you calling me out for getting the new iPhone 3GS 32GB Black superphone?	19:12
@preaction	DA SUPAPHONE!	19:12
@tavisto	tavisto draws his weapon	19:12
mech422	actually, I wonder how many tech people use the term 'drink the kool aid' and are too young to know where it comes from ?	19:12
@tavisto	let's get him preaction!	19:12
mech422	iphone? your joking right ?	19:12
@preaction	it was ruby ridge, right?	19:12
@tavisto	well I thought it makes reference to being in a cult.. Dave Ramsey also says it all the time	19:12
+perlmonkey2	hahaha	19:12
+perlmonkey2	preaction++	19:12
@tavisto	aha it is	19:13
mech422	jonestown - mass suicide	19:13
@preaction	the koolaide was laced with cyanide or arsenic or something	19:13
@tavisto	yep	19:13
mech422	women and children included	19:13
@tavisto	except the founder didnt drink right?	19:13
+perlmonkey2	don't forget the armed thugs shooting people who backed out.	19:13
mech422	rather macrabre when you think about how its used now	19:13
@preaction	it was cherry-flavored, if i remember ;)	19:13
mech422	anyway - on to cheerier stuff like iphone bashing :-)	19:13
@tavisto	preaction is immune to cyanide so he's still doing pretty good after drinking it... except for those blackouts	19:13
mech422	actualy, I hear the iphone is great as long as you don't need to make phone calls .... :-P	19:14
@tavisto	the iPhone is the alpha and omega of mainstream phone technology	19:14
@tavisto	I have 4-5 bars in most places around me	19:14
+perlmonkey2	ahem Android.	19:14
mech422	perlmonkey2: yeah - my buddy has a g1 and it sounds awesome	19:14
mech422	too bad the new android htc handset is like $650 unlocked :-(	19:15
@tavisto	Actually, I will admit that the Samsung Jet definitely w00ps all over the petty iPhone, Palm, Android debates	19:15
@tavisto	800mhz chip, 2GB of onboard ram, and an organic LED display that requires no backlighting and 66% less power usage	19:15
mech422	samsung jet ? gotta google	19:15
@tavisto	do it right now... it's amazing	19:15
@tavisto	I knew they were using OLED in TVs now.. But not on a cell	19:15
+perlmonkey2	mech422: yep, I loves my G1. looooves it.	19:17
+perlmonkey2	mech422: the new HTC is hardly an improvement on the G1. I really dig physical keyboards.	19:17
mech422	perlmonkey2: you has one ? bastich :-P I just got my BB last year so I'm not trading in for a while	19:17
+perlmonkey2	espeically a nice largish one like the G1's.	19:17
mech422	yeah - my fingers are too fat for the BB keyboard	19:18
+perlmonkey2	I can type about 20WPM on the G1, which when I'm in a terminal means I can almost code.	19:18
mech422	but it does a good job with _displaying_ stuff - emails, web pages, word docs - all are pretty well done	19:18
+perlmonkey2	but certainly fine for sysadmin work.	19:18
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mech422	gah - the ssh client for my BB is lame	19:19
+perlmonkey2	and the SDK with Eclipse is just tops. Best I've used for hardware dev'ing.	19:19
mech422	it's a free one that switches to an input box when you enter commands	19:19
+perlmonkey2	mech422: there are tons of term apps for Android, but connectbot is great. Supports PKI which is the only way I allow in to my servers.	19:19
mech422	supposedly the commercial one is better, but I don't do enough ssh'ing on the phone to spend $$	19:20
mech422	let me check out this samsung thingy...	19:20
mech422	jet.samsungmobile.com is fuxored	19:22
+perlmonkey2	tavisto: You have the Kindle App yet. That almost got me to buy an iphone.	19:23
mech422	ok - what good is a google cache that doesn't come up when the real site is down ?	19:24
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mech422	tv out on a cell phone ??	19:28
@tavisto	nope, don't read enough right now perlMonkey2	19:38
@tavisto	but I fly a ton and am very happy with iTunes and the apps available. That really sells the phone for me.. And the fact that PB is pure mac based :)	19:38
@tavisto	I should say the content available on iTunes (movies, tv shows, music, etc...)	19:39
@tavisto	I was a diehard blackberry user until one day I was on a plane going to LA and I am sitting there bored and I see a teenage punk with an iPhone watching movies... and I'm like... this blackberry is worthless except for sending email	19:40
@preaction	heh	19:41
@preaction	dont' forget games!	19:41
@tavisto	but of course... preaction... always completing my sentences	19:42
@tavisto	and that's why I think preaction is	19:42
mech422	umm - and for making phone calls ?	19:42
mech422	I mean, it _is_ a phone	19:42
mech422	:-P	19:42
mech422	or not, in the iphone case	19:43
@preaction	i didn't want an iphone until my friends got one and kept playing games and fun applications	19:43
* mech422 ducks		19:43
@preaction	pfft, we're BEYOND phones now	19:43
@preaction	this is a Phone++	19:43
@tavisto	I'm on it all day long.. no problems with connectivity for me.. I hear San Fran is still rough	19:43
@preaction	we've evolved past the need for phones	19:43
mech422	ROFL - my phone is so cool, it won't even _talk_ to a voice network :-P	19:43
@tavisto	but you can pick 1000 areas where verizon, or sprint sux too	19:43
@tavisto	this whole "verizon better than at&t" is a joke because Verizon can say that all day..... since they don't have the 7 million iPhone datamongers on their network eating up the data	19:44
@tavisto	until they have that... and can show their network is better... it's just bs	19:44
mech422	funny - my client in LA claims his iphone drops so many calls he has to carry his old (tmobile?) phone too	19:44
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@tavisto	65% of mobile data traffic on the web is from iPhone users. That's incredible!	19:44
+perlmonkey2	I had no problems at all with TMobile/G1 in San Fran or San Jose.	19:45
+perlmonkey2	3g everywhere.	19:45
@tavisto	mech422 I have friends that say that too. Mostly on the 3G phone version	19:45
mech422	not really - 'mobile data traffic' - thats what - iphone, treos (sooo last year :-P), bb's (all biz, no video here!), and android ?	19:45
@tavisto	I think that 3G phone had major hardware issues.. Although the original iPhone (which Rizen and I had) never had any major problems. Of course.. we also didn't have the 3G interference	19:46
+perlmonkey2	and who talks on a phone anymore except to their grandparents. It's either text or IM or social apps for communicating.	19:46
mech422	yeah - he's had his awhile, so it's not the latest and greatest iphone	19:46
@tavisto	I think the 3G version was junk and that's why I didn't upgrade. Especially since I live in Kalamazoo, MI and we don't have 3G yet... tavisto shakes his head in frustration	19:47
mech422	perlmonkey2: yeah - I can't believe people actually like SMS... typing on those stupid lil keyboards	19:47
+perlmonkey2	mech422: my G1 has a nice big fat keyboard. But even on a small numeral pad, texting takes a few seconds to send a message when calling takes minutes and social formalities to complete the message.	19:48
mech422	LOL - we just got a palm pre flyer in the mail - talk about timing :-P	19:48
mech422	perlmonkey2: thats the second time I've heard the 'talking takes too long' - you guys must all be too polite... speech is still the highest 'bandwidth' medium the phones offer	19:49
mech422	I can't imagine trying to 'say' anything remotely complex via SMS	19:49
+perlmonkey2	mech422: that is highly doubtful. what is an SMS, 512Bytes?	19:50
@preaction	less, 212	19:50
mech422	how fast can you diagnose a problem via sms and how fast via voice ?	19:50
mech422	voice (speech) imparts the most info in the shortest time - hence highest bandwidth	19:50
+perlmonkey2	mech422: say you want to give someong a timing or location update or just some status update. 5 seconds of typing on a keyboard and you're done. You'd still be waiting for the phone to start ringing for voice.	19:50
mech422	if all you do is trivia...	19:51
mech422	but I don't do a lot of that - I want to _communicate_	19:51
mech422	exchange ideas -not just 'send' but 'recieve'	19:51
mech422	plus tmobile can 'lose' SMS messages for hours when the network is busy	19:51
+perlmonkey2	well if I'm discussing projects or design issues, I prefer IM. It is logged and you have time to compose your thoughts correctly when responding.	19:51
mech422	perlmonkey2: I could see that over SMS - but you prefer to type rather then say use skype ?	19:52
+perlmonkey2	mech422: lose sms messages? is that when you don't have a data connection, cause the true sms protocol of a voice sideband is almost never used anymore.	19:52
+perlmonkey2	mech422: absolutey	19:53
+perlmonkey2	I'd prefer some computer IM discussion for project discussions.	19:53
mech422	wow	19:53
+perlmonkey2	voice isn't logged and you get a situation where "so and so said X and it didn't happen like my expectations said so.".	19:53
+perlmonkey2	too much room for misinterpretation and misundersstandings.	19:54
mech422	perlmonkey2: yeah - I don't generally have to 'prove' who said what.. and I find speech faster and more expressive	19:54
mech422	perlmonkey2: well, text messages have no guarantee on delivery time - strictly 'best effort' - I've recieved a few recently that where hours in transit	19:55
+perlmonkey2	speechis faster and more expressive. I just want everything logged :D	19:55
mech422	perlmonkey2: tape recorder ?	19:55
mech422	:-P	19:55
+perlmonkey2	yeah, double check their location for wire tapping laws :P	19:55
+perlmonkey2	but really, if a voice conversation is warranted, I make the effort for a face-to-face.	19:56
mech422	just say "I'm recording this cuz your boss is cheap and has a short memory and loves scope creep " :-P	19:56
+perlmonkey2	heh	19:56
+perlmonkey2	Plus there's hardly a place in the country where I don't have friends, so I don't mind traveling to see customers.	19:57
mech422	yeah - face to face seems to have fallen out of favor in this digital world :-)	19:57
+perlmonkey2	nothing more fun than sitting together in a conference room with a pot of coffee and scraps of paper and brain storming for hours. Love that.	19:58
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mech422	Awesome idea!	20:05
mech422	put that aethism to work!	20:06
mech422	and sucker some rich holier-then-thou's while yer at it !	20:06
mech422	oh sorry - wrong channel	20:09
mech422	I was referencing this: http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/	20:09
mech422	perlmonkey2: yeah - and don't forget the white board	20:11
mech422	90% fumes, and the 10% ink always ends up on your hand or shirt :-P	20:11
daviddelikat	mech422: that is hilarious! kind of like the cryogenics of the 70's	20:13
daviddelikat	perhaps we can make a new service for suckers... we promise that if you keep sending up money we will see to it that whatever happens we will do somehting for you someday...	20:15
mech422	daviddelikat: maybe water your plants after the rapture ?	20:16
daviddelikat	sounds good...	20:16
mech422	daviddelikat: collect your mail ?	20:16
daviddelikat	cancel your magazine subscriptions	20:16
mech422	LOL	20:16
daviddelikat	sell your house	20:16
mech422	I wonder if they actually have any clients ?	20:17
daviddelikat	i dont know but hteir order form doesn't match their front page	20:17
mech422	I wonder the same thing whenever I get a pyramid scheme or nigerian prince email...	20:17
daviddelikat	order form says 1 pet for $110 front page says 2	20:17
daviddelikat	hey I'm a close friend of all those nigerian princes	20:18
mech422	2 for 1 sale ? maybe the rapture is getting close- going out of biz sale	20:18
mech422	ya gotta wonder, I mean if no one sent them money - they'd stop spamming, wouldn't they ?	20:18
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daviddelikat	i imagine so ... speaks volumes about americans	20:19
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mech422	Hmm... I wonder where Synq is hiding	20:39
+perlmonkey2	Their employees are assured to be around for they have violated Mark 3:29. From the FAQ.	20:41
mech422	preaction: I was tinkering with my new build stuff the other day and noticed xpdf gets patches applied...	20:41
@preaction	weird	20:41
mech422	so maybe each package should get a subdir for the 'recipe' and patches etc ?	20:42
mech422	so instead of recipes/xpdf.sh we'd have recipes/xpdf/build.sh and recipes/xpdf/patches/foo1.patch ?	20:43
@preaction	you might look at how FreeBSD's ports system does it	20:43
@preaction	they do this same thing, `make` downloads the source, applies patches, and then builds	20:44
mech422	yeah - T2 does it all in shell	20:44
mech422	but I didn't think rizen would be interested in something to 'complicated' ?	20:45
mech422	personally - I like a single manifest file with subdirs for each package to hold the 'recipe', patches, custom jpegs or whatever	20:46
mech422	i think it's a good compromise between maintainability, functionality, and complexity	20:47
mech422	but there's not really much point in doing it if no-one else likes/uses it	20:49
ckotil	Any idea why a .graffile file will not upload via the filepile asset?	20:49
@preaction	.graffle isn't a file, it's a directory	20:49
ckotil	.graffle	20:49
ckotil	ah, that explains it.	20:50
@preaction	it's one of OS X's bundle things (like .app)	20:50
ckotil	thanks, ill have my user zip it up in that case	20:50
ckotil	gotcha.	20:50
mech422	osx has a .graffle ? heh - cute :-)	20:50
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@Haarg	os x has bundles that are really directories, but get treated like files by Finder	21:08
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+perlmonkey2	ut oh.....July 4th, 20+ family members decend upon my small town. I'm the only person in the area with a pool and no neighbors within gunshot distance. Looks like my day might be ending early.	22:17
@tavisto	then you will fight in the shade....	22:18
+perlmonkey2	:D	22:18
+perlmonkey2	tavisto: If loving that movie is wrong, I don't want to be right.	22:19
@tavisto	that's right.	22:19
@tavisto	amen brotha	22:19
@tavisto	my mind is telling me noooooooooo......... but my body....... my boddddddy....	22:20
+perlmonkey2	had to youtube that video :D	22:20
@tavisto	the R Kelly one?	22:21
+perlmonkey2	yep	22:22
@tavisto	did you see this? http://www.plainblack.com/news/webgui-8-goes-php	22:23
+perlmonkey2	tavisto: you sir are an EVIL man	22:24
@tavisto	wait for it	22:24
@tavisto	RICKROLLED	22:24
@tavisto	but with style perlmonkey2!	22:24
@tavisto	it's the narrated version	22:24
+perlmonkey2	yeah, you got me several times in the past with that version	22:24
@tavisto	muwhaha	22:24
+perlmonkey2	yet I STILL click that link	22:24
@tavisto	feel free to give the URL out to your friends	22:24
@tavisto	it's the legit plainblack address that gets ya	22:25
+perlmonkey2	yep	22:25
@tavisto	I'll have to mix it up from now on	22:25
+perlmonkey2	hah, #drupal just banned me for that link. Guess they didn't see the humor.	22:47
+perlmonkey2	Such sweet community on those php sites. Abundant sense of humor.	22:48
@tavisto	nice work	22:51
@tavisto	did they ban you because it was a rickroll	22:51
@tavisto	or did they ban you because it was a webgui link	22:51
@preaction	you'd be hostile too if you had to work with PHP all day	22:51
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kathyk	what? no perldreamer?	23:06
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@preaction	huh, that's weird	23:06
dreamersgirl	he's probably still galavanting around town with the boys...	23:07
dreamersgirl	there's a special Disney train in town just for today	23:08
@preaction	ooh nice	23:08
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SquOnk	re	23:18
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SquOnk	7.6.29 packages just hit Debian Sid! Ha!	23:19
SquOnk	.seen bartjol	23:19
* SquOnk is listening to: Genesis - Genesis - Taking It All Too Hard - (0:12/3:58)		23:19
SquOnk	Ups, sorry.	23:19
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CIA-44	WebGUI: translation * r11397 /translations/German/German/Asset_MatrixListing.pm: Update from translation server	00:53
CIA-44	WebGUI: translation * r11398 /translations/German/German/Asset_MatrixListing.pm: Update from translation server	00:53
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CIA-44	WebGUI: translation * r11399 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Navigation.pm Asset_Thingy.pm): Update from translation server	01:10
CIA-44	WebGUI: translation * r11400 /translations/German/German/ (WebGUI.pm FilePump.pm): Update from translation server	01:10
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CIA-44	WebGUI: translation * r11401 /translations/German/German/FilePump.pm: Update from translation server	01:23
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11402 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Fix more iCal creation and reading bugs. With tests.	01:38
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11403 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Forward porting fixes for iCal escaping and unescaping, and line wrapping.	01:38
CIA-44	WebGUI: translation * r11404 /translations/German/German/Asset.pm: Update from translation server	01:38
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mech422	man - my sleep schedule is even more whacked then normal :-(	06:24
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@tavisto	what's up party people?	07:26
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mech422	tavisto: party canceled on account of sleepy :-P	07:54
@tavisto	bah	07:56
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mech422	tavisto: it was really wierd - I was really tired last night so I went to bed around 2-3 am (really early for me..)	08:02
mech422	I slept for 1 hour, then _bounced_ out of bed wide awake... my butt has been dragging ever since	08:03
@tavisto	yep I bet it is	08:11
@tavisto	I don't stay up all night anymore.. but if I don't get like 5-6 hours of sleep in a night I am dragging the next night	08:11
@preaction	if i don't get 10 hours of sleep i feel groggy all day	08:12
@preaction	more than 3 days in a row of that and i pass out	08:12
@tavisto	When I was in Orlando I ended up staying up all night and flying out at 6am... By 3pm the next day I could not physically stay awake even for 5 minutes	08:12
@tavisto	granted, I was up for 29 hours straight... the plane ride home was brutal	08:12
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mech422	my mom just came back from england - she was saying Logan airport in boston got closed yesterday (today?)	08:52
mech422	some sort of electrical storm - they got redirected to connecticut, but couldn't dis-embark as there wasn't any customs officers to check passports	08:52
mech422	they finally got into logan like 6 hours later :-/	08:53
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+MrHairgrease	javascript question.	16:40
+MrHairgrease	see: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m4ba4c7f	16:40
+MrHairgrease	What I'm trying to do is to let the DefinitieTool constructor creat object that more or less inherit from DynamicDropper	16:41
+MrHairgrease	but I don't want to rewrite the constructor	16:42
+MrHairgrease	any idea's how I should do that	16:42
+MrHairgrease	?	16:42
+MrHairgrease	see lines 39 - 41	16:42
daviddelikat	I've seen this sort of thing...	16:42
daviddelikat	I think that JS has a system that calls a SUPER function sort of like perl	16:43
daviddelikat	I'll see if I can find it	16:43
+MrHairgrease	that's the prototype chain	16:43
* daviddelikat looking at JS documentation		16:43
+MrHairgrease	but you can only add a prototype to an object	16:43
+MrHairgrease	which a contructor isn't	16:43
+MrHairgrease	afaik	16:44
daviddelikat	the constructor is part of an object though...	16:44
daviddelikat	you add a constuctor to the new object that calls the constructor from the parent object	16:44
+MrHairgrease	ok, so how would I do that?	16:45
+MrHairgrease	DefinitieTool = function () [	16:46
daviddelikat	working on it...	16:46
+MrHairgrease	this.prototype = new DynamicDropper( arguments);	16:46
+MrHairgrease	}	16:46
+MrHairgrease	maybe that'll work	16:46
daviddelikat	are you using YUI?	16:46
daviddelikat	you could use YAHOO.extend(...)	16:47
+MrHairgrease	oh	16:47
+MrHairgrease	hehe	16:47
+MrHairgrease	yeah I'm using YUI	16:47
+MrHairgrease	I'll chcek that one out	16:47
daviddelikat	but Im sure that JS has a construct...	16:47
daviddelikat	http://www.javascriptkit.com/javatutors/oopjs3.shtml	16:50
daviddelikat	its not what I would call elegant, but then neither is javascript	16:51
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+MrHairgrease	javascript is elegant	16:52
+MrHairgrease	we're just doing it wrong	16:52
daviddelikat	javascript was not designed to do what people use it for today	16:52
daviddelikat	this results in very in-elegant sollutions to many problems...	16:53
daviddelikat	you can try to make a dog work like a spider by grafting on legs, but it will never look as good a s a spider	16:53
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+MrHairgrease	ok	17:07
+MrHairgrease	got it to wrok with YUI extend	17:07
+MrHairgrease	It's done like this: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m11a702d2	17:09
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+perlmonkey2	If you couldn't remember the call to create a new unique assetId and were trying to look it up, how would you go about that?	17:45
+MrHairgrease	ask here	17:46
+bartjol	or there	17:46
+MrHairgrease	$session->id->generate	17:46
+MrHairgrease	or be like th eurotrash	17:47
+bartjol	but that is not the question	17:47
+MrHairgrease	and know EVERYTHING (echo echo echo)	17:47
+bartjol	how would you find it is	17:47
+bartjol	eeeh	17:47
+perlmonkey2	MrHairgrease: thanks for the info. But how would you go about finding htat info yourself? I was looking in the asset constructor, randoming choosing assets to meander through. Hit the forums.	17:47
+MrHairgrease	ack guid?	17:48
@Haarg	why would you need to do that yourself?	17:48
+bartjol	well, I would look for a method to create the asset in asset	17:48
+MrHairgrease	b/c pm2 is not from europe	17:48
+bartjol	and read the code	17:48
+MrHairgrease	=)	17:48
+bartjol	Asset.pm	17:48
+bartjol	or look in the online api	17:48
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: I don't need a real assetId, I need a unique id to identify encryption instances.	17:49
+perlmonkey2	ack guid brought it up :D	17:49
@Haarg	seems like WebGUI::Session::Id should really just be WebGUI::GUID or something	17:50
@tavisto	preaction, http://sosexpert.com/blog/?p=5339	17:54
@tavisto	that's unfortunately a potential customer I was working with.. who apparently doesn't like the quote that Vrby provided	17:54
@tavisto	Or maybe he's trying to get a comparison on cost from someone else.. not sure. It's a good size project though	17:55
+bartjol	well, I like the footer beneath the message: Proudly powered by WordPress and Carrington	17:58
+MrHairgrease	ah well	17:59
@Haarg	MrHairgrease, is there a reason for WebGUI::Shop::TaxDriver::EU to load SOAP::Lite?	18:07
+MrHairgrease	Oh, yeah	18:07
+MrHairgrease	that was from the first vesrion when I did the VAT nr checking myself	18:08
+MrHairgrease	no I'm using Business:Tax::VAT for that	18:08
daviddelikat	check it out! http://delikat.homeip.net:8080/	18:08
+MrHairgrease	so it's not necessary anymore	18:08
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+perlDreamer	morning, folks	18:14
daviddelikat	perlDreamer: http://delikat.homeip.net:8080/	18:14
daviddelikat	g'mornin	18:14
+perlDreamer	interesting concept, daviddelikat	18:15
+perlDreamer	how do you close newly opened tabs?	18:15
daviddelikat	its the new helpdesk	18:15
@tavisto	top of the mornin' to ya	18:15
daviddelikat	its a work in progress	18:15
daviddelikat	where do you think the close button ought to be?	18:16
+perlDreamer	on the tab	18:16
+perlDreamer	little X icon	18:16
daviddelikat	I thought you'd say that...	18:17
+perlDreamer	seems like I've seen that somewhere before...	18:17
+perlDreamer	also, given the recent formatting problems, I'd suggest a new ticket layout	18:17
+perlDreamer	that uses a 1 column layout instead of 2	18:17
daviddelikat	hmmm, not int he scope of my project	18:17
daviddelikat	have to see what the boss thinks...	18:18
daviddelikat	whats wrong with this format?	18:18
+perlDreamer	have a look at the newest bug on webgui.org's bug board	18:18
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daviddelikat	perlDreamer: I think the solution to that is to put the Issue text into a box with auto scrollbars...	18:23
+perlDreamer	it needs to be a fixed width one, then, and narrower than the current one since even with a standard bug the editing controls are hidden.	18:24
+perlDreamer	but like you said, out of scope	18:25
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+perlmonkey2	Should the web user have permission to write to the conf file/	18:26
+perlmonkey2	?	18:26
+bartjol	sure	18:27
+bartjol	:)	18:27
+perlDreamer	it's not under the DocumentRoot	18:27
+perlDreamer	bartjol: kathy says hi	18:28
+bartjol	ah, thank, give her my regards	18:28
+perlDreamer	will do :)	18:28
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@Haarg	perlmonkey2, apache's user shouldn't need write permission to the config files	18:31
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: even if you are using session->config->set?	18:31
@Haarg	apache should never do that	18:31
+perlmonkey2	:(	18:31
+perlmonkey2	if that's true, then I have a way blown deadline.	18:31
@Haarg	that's why the settings table exists	18:32
@Haarg	config files only get loaded on startup	18:32
+perlmonkey2	I think it was decided to put this in the config file for safety since encryption keys/info would be stored there.	18:33
@Haarg	even if apache could write to the file, which it can't depend on, forked apache processes wouldn't get the new information	18:33
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: was going to put in a button to restart webgui	18:34
@Haarg	in the web interface?	18:34
+perlmonkey2	yeah	18:34
@Haarg	ouch	18:34
@Haarg	that's getting into a whole different issue	18:35
+perlDreamer	usually, only root is allowed to do that	18:35
@tavisto	firefox 3.5 seems to move a bit quicker with wG admin on	18:37
@tavisto	than the old ff	18:37
+perlDreamer	it's supposed to have faster JS, so that's expected (and good news)	18:37
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CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11405 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Internationalize some Event edit form error messages.	18:40
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daviddelikat	haarg: how hard would it be to add a list command to wgd --> it would list the assets inside another asset.	19:01
@Haarg	wgd ls	19:01
daviddelikat	oh	19:01
daviddelikat	gotta get new glasses	19:01
@Haarg	would be nice if it was a bit faster, but that can't be done without keeping the program running	19:04
+perlDreamer	wgdd is the WebGUI Developer Daemon	19:05
@Haarg	heh	19:06
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11406 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Backporting event error message i18n	19:08
+perlDreamer	I added the config counter to the upgrade script, finally.	19:20
+perlDreamer	and by next Thursday I'll have that package import option (for in-place vs in-parent) done, too	19:21
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11407 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm t/Storage.t): Add hex generation code to tempspace Storage objects. Otherwise, they return undef.	19:23
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11408 /WebGUI/sbin/upgrade.pl:	19:23
CIA-44	WebGUI: Add a counter to the upgrade script, so you know how many configs there are	19:23
CIA-44	WebGUI: to do, and how many are done.	19:23
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11409 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/sbin/upgrade.pl: Backporting upgrade.pl enhancement, uh bug!	19:23
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym		20:35
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knowmad1	hey folks!	22:15
knowmad1	i just got the Ubuntu security email about Compress::Raw::Zlib vulnerabilities	22:15
knowmad1	any concern for WebGUI/WRE?	22:16
knowmad1	i didn't see any forum discussions in my search	22:16
@preaction	looks like the latest WRE uses 2.019	22:18
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+perlmonkey2	ut oh, now I'll never get anything done ever again: http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/games.html	22:30
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+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: It costs $100 to play those games	22:34
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: eh? I'm downloading now and didn't see anything about prices.	22:35
+perlDreamer	no linux/MacOs versions available	22:35
+perlmonkey2	I've got a XP vm and am going to try wine	22:36
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+perlmonkey2	need to run some test cases on the encryption module. no fun and games for me.	22:37
+perlDreamer	a few good reasons to look at Test Driven Development: http://use.perl.org/~Mark+Leighton+Fisher/journal/39210	22:40
* perlmonkey2 pulls out his HTML hammer and smacks a query around.		23:17
+perlmonkey2	Oh, I see my problem. I'm using my HTML hammer and I need the SQL hammer.	23:17
+perlmonkey2	Hmm, when you have a broken workflow and the scheduler is set to run it every minute, your logs become clogged with the foul proof of your ineptitude.	23:21
+perlDreamer	wgd reset --dev	23:22
+perlmonkey2	ah, anyone here remember how to put a keyword in a query that is a column name? ie select field, key, row, table from myTable?	23:25
@Haarg	dbh->quote_identifier	23:25
@Haarg	or backquotes if you are doing it directly i guess	23:26
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+perlmonkey2	arrg!! backticks is how you do it. But I'll use quote_identifier, it looks more correct.	23:26
+perlmonkey2	thanks Haarg	23:26
@Haarg	anything dynamic i would say always use quote_identifier	23:27
+perlmonkey2	roger roger. Sanitizers++	23:28
@preaction	hi Zeos! did you have a question?	23:42
+perlmonkey2	sub execute{my $self = shift; $self->session->log->error("I'm in the workflow");} Why would my workflow not be running?	23:48
+perlmonkey2	In running workflows it has shown up suspended with the last state an error. But nothing in the logs.	23:49
+perlDreamer	is the workflow syntax clean?	23:50
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: if I mess up the syntax I get an exceptoin	23:52
+perlmonkey2	well and error in the logs	23:52
+perlmonkey2	and when the sql was bad I received an error there also.	23:52
+perlDreamer	does execute need to return anything in particular to work correctly?	23:52
+perlDreamer	like OK, or DONE or WAITING?	23:53
+perlmonkey2	But for some reason the logs aren't showing up. Maybe spectre is running as someone without permissions to write to messages	23:53
+perlmonkey2	even before it returns I have log statements.	23:53
+perlDreamer	you mean there's no test for this? ;)	23:53
+perlmonkey2	perl spectre.pl --test ? is that what you mean?	23:54
+perlDreamer	no, perl t/Workflow/Activity/PerlMonkeyActivity.t	23:58
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+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: I'd like to just run the workflow successfully once before writing the test for it.	00:01
+perlmonkey2	Or just get it to execute the first line after execute, just to show it entered.	00:02
+perlmonkey2	I mean my workflow's constructor has a simple error log that never is shown. How can it have a lastStatus of error and not have logged that?	00:07
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+perlmonkey2	When you click run on a suspended workflow, what could cause it to go to a page with 'error' as the only html and nothing be placed in the logs?	00:09
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11410 /WebGUI/docs/ (upgrades/upgrade_7.7.12-7.7.13.pl gotcha.txt): Remove session db based token storage.	00:10
+perlDreamer	daviddelikat, as a frequent bug user, one other thing that would be handy is that whenever a user's name is displayed, if it was a link to their profile	00:30
daviddelikat	is there a macro or function that can provide that link?	00:31
+perlDreamer	$session->user->profileURL, I think	00:31
daviddelikat	it be easy enough to add	00:31
daviddelikat	but we want the named user not the current user i think	00:32
+perlDreamer	$user->getProfileUrl	00:32
+perlDreamer	that should be around anyway, if they're displaying usernames instead of userIds	00:32
daviddelikat	I'll take a look.	00:32
@preaction	anyone think there should be a nice way to add user-specific information without having to go through all the trouble of a profile field?	00:33
@preaction	instead of session scratch, a user scratch?	00:33
+perlDreamer	where would you need it?	00:33
daviddelikat	yes that would be handy	00:33
@preaction	example: I need to keep track of the number of notifications i've sent a user	00:34
daviddelikat	I would use it to set the default value for the helpdesk table number of rows	00:34
@preaction	there should be no way to see this via the profile, and no way to edit it, in fact to any user of the front-end it Should Not Exist	00:34
+perlDreamer	one problem I see with it is that, unlike session scratch, it won't ever go away	00:35
@preaction	daviddelikat: that should work as a session thing	00:35
+perlDreamer	so it could grow without checks/limits	00:35
@preaction	perlDreamer: it will go away when the user is deleted, but yes that's the idea	00:35
daviddelikat	yeah but it would be nice as a user thing	00:35
+perlDreamer	right, and sessions go away faster than users	00:35
daviddelikat	it shouldn't grow though because it will only have certain programatic parameters	00:36
@preaction	think if it as a profile field, invisible, not-editable, and more importantly not visible or editable to Admins of the site	00:36
@preaction	either that, or it should be easier to create these profile fields. a way to say "newOrCreate()" or something	00:37
@preaction	i'm lazy, and i have to do this too often	00:37
+perlDreamer	newOrCreate sounds good to me	00:37
+perlDreamer	it's just a wrapper around existing things	00:38
+perlDreamer	and it would be nice for upgrade scripts	00:38
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11411 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: Preparing for 7.7.13 release.	00:54
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CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11412 /releases/WebGUI_7.7.13-beta: Release 7.7.13-beta	01:09
* perlmonkey2 contemplates sacrificing goats to make any of the workflows write to the logs.		01:12
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2, it's working for me in a test	01:19
+perlmonkey2	hmm, added a return->COMPLETE right after my log statement. And now when I run the workflow via the admin, it returns complete. So for some reason the logging isn't working, but at least now I know the workflow is being ran.	01:19
+perlDreamer	what level is your logger set to?	01:20
+perlmonkey2	I think info, but shouldn't matter as i'm logging to error	01:20
+perlmonkey2	error	01:20
+perlmonkey2	it is set to ERROR	01:20
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11413 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.7.14 development	01:23
+perlDreamer	so, just for giggles, set it to warn, restart apache, and try again	01:24
+perlmonkey2	hmm, with warn I'd think I'd be getting a lot of extra logs. but nothing	01:26
+perlmonkey2	but my code is definetely runnign	01:26
+perlDreamer	I've tried it both with a test script, and via the UI and it's logging for me	01:26
+perlDreamer	in both cases	01:27
+perlmonkey2	I'll see if non-spectre actions can log	01:27
+perlmonkey2	ridiculous...utterly ridiculous.	01:30
+perlmonkey2	I usually view logs by typing 'wlog' which is an alias for all the logs I want to tail when developing. But for some reason I was manually picking them today. And forgot that webgui isn't logging to messages but to webgui.log. Not everything sent to syslogd goes to messages is the lesson of the day.	01:31
+perlDreamer	sounds like you need less goats and more beer	01:37
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: need more brains	01:38
+perlDreamer	I'll call George Romero	01:39
+perlmonkey2	Heh, good one. I was thinking more like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQYjZc7gKXc	01:42
mech422	blarggle	02:22
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mech422	how does this look for a build file ? http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3c65ee47	02:24
mech422	for the 'simple' case - only lines 8-10 change, or as this example shows you can have real logic in the build function	02:25
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+perlDreamer	sf.net just released a new look and feel	02:35
+perlDreamer	and it seems quite broken	02:35
mech422	perlDreamer: sf.net is always broken :-P	02:37
mech422	perlDreamer: btw - could you look at the paste bin above and see what you thing ?	02:38
mech422	s/thing/think	02:38
+perlDreamer	I think that I don't grok bash	02:39
mech422	?	02:40
mech422	I fail	02:40
mech422	you weren't really supposed to need to know bash to use it	02:40
mech422	mostly - just changing the 3 vars at the top should do it (and changing the tar command cuz I was too lazy to dynamically detect the archive type )	02:41
+perlDreamer	mech422, I only mean that I don't know enough about build scripts to know if what I see is good or not	02:42
mech422	oh - how does it seem from a usability standpoint ?	02:44
mech422	simple enough to figure out what to put where ?	02:44
+perlDreamer	seems okay	02:54
+perlDreamer	how does it get WRE specific build flags passed into it?	02:54
mech422	env flags	02:56
mech422	though there really arent many to speak of	02:56
mech422	here's the usage message so you can see what it does: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m6826791e	03:06
mech422	basically you can do stuff like: driver.sh update perl openssl apache	03:07
mech422	or: driver.sh download (this will download all packages listed in packages.txt )	03:08
mech422	echo.... echo..........echo.....................echooooo	04:24
mech422	wow its quiet today	04:37
CIA-44	WebGUI: patspam * r11414 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fixed Survey::Test diagnostics when comparing complex data structures	04:52
CIA-44	WebGUI: patspam * r11415 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm: Fixed: Survey - check for groupToEditSurvey as well as groupToViewSurvey in canView	04:52
CIA-44	WebGUI: patspam * r11416 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ExpressionEngine.pm:	04:52
CIA-44	WebGUI: Fixed bug in Survey::ExpressionEngine - was not using most recent survey	04:52
CIA-44	WebGUI: response to resolve external values	04:52
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+perlDreamer	calendar is getting more sticky all the time	05:02
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+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: So when was the last time you did something as stupid as I did today? Ever? When you were 3?	05:24
+perlDreamer	probably yesterday	05:24
+perlDreamer	when I said, "Sure, I'll fix the calendar. It will be easy"	05:24
+perlmonkey2	hah, you crack me up	05:24
+perlmonkey2	hahaha	05:24
+perlmonkey2	famous last words	05:24
+perlDreamer	actually, it is easy, it's just a lot of work	05:31
+perlDreamer	lots more work than I thought, and most of it comes from the interpretation of time zones and end times	05:32
+perlDreamer	I think I'm going to draw up a proposal and float it past JT and Doug and see what they say about it	05:32
mech422	anyone know if there's any c++ template code in the WRE ?	05:41
mech422	I noticed this in the libtool docs:	05:41
mech422	# TODO: Verify if we need to do this (Do we have any C++ template code?) on Darwin :	05:41
mech422	#	05:41
mech422	# * On Darwin, for C++ code with templates you need two level shared	05:41
mech422	# libraries. Libtool builds these by default if	05:41
mech422	# `MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET' is set to 10.3 or later at `configure'	05:41
mech422	# time. See `rdar://problem/4135857' for more information on this	05:41
mech422	# issue.	05:41
elnino	anyone know what "auto pinging" is?	05:43
mech422	umm - you don't have to hand deliver the ping packets ? :-P	05:46
mech422	elnino: in what context did you see this ?	05:46
elnino	someone what's a CMS that has this feature/functionality. no description given.	05:47
+perlmonkey2	elnino: like something to check for connectivity continuously?	05:47
elnino	"We want our site re-built with a CMS with built-in scripts for friendly URLs and Auto Pinging. "	05:48
mech422	elnino: oh	05:48
+perlmonkey2	I'd put money on a notification system for when connectivity is lost to the site.	05:48
mech422	email notification	05:48
mech422	perlmonkey2: nah - I bet they want notification on content update	05:48
+perlmonkey2	what does pinging have to do with content?	05:48
mech422	ping-back	05:48
mech422	I'm guessing the confused it from blogtalk - 'trac back' and 'ping back'	05:49
mech422	s/the/they/	05:49
+perlmonkey2	seems possible	05:49
mech422	could go either way...	05:50
elnino	hmm. interesting ok.	05:50
+perlmonkey2	don't use their terminology, just bid it both ways :D	05:50
mech422	does this person seem the type to actually know what a network ping is ?	05:50
elnino	Thanks guys!	05:50
elnino	probably not mech422.	05:50
mech422	bid it with both - and tell them it costs double :-P	05:50
elnino	I'll think more if I want to bid. well, I'm going to go watch a movie now, for probably the last time for a long time. =)	05:51
+perlmonkey2	"we continuously check and update for network connectivity. blah blah talk about something else ... and we can update you whenever content is altered/added.	05:51
+perlmonkey2	"	05:51
mech422	I always love that monitoring shit	05:53
mech422	people never realize its a 2 location thing	05:54
mech422	"ok - I want an email when the network goes down.."	05:54
mech422	"Umm - and how exactly am I supposed to do that ? " :-P	05:54
mech422	at which point you can sell them a nice off site monitoring service :-)	05:55
+perlmonkey2	Which is why everything should be written down with lots and lots of diagrams.	06:14
+perlmonkey2	When dealing with non-technical clients there is nothing more important than excellent writing skills and the ability to concisely summarize complex ideas with a few quick to grok diagrams.	06:15
+perlmonkey2	feels like there should have been more alliteration in that last sentence.	06:16
topsub	Whats the min. ram you would use on webgui?	06:17
mech422	Heh.. personally, I find vodka to be most helpful when dealing with non-technical clients :-P	06:17
mech422	topsub: that sounds like a dangerous question - how much load before it's allowed to die ?	06:18
mech422	but then again, when I see 'min ram' I think < 128M :-)	06:19
mech422	topsub: if it helps any - my dev. box is 512M for the whole machine including wG but I'm the only one that hits it	06:22
+perlDreamer	topsub, never less than a gig	06:29
+perlDreamer	WebGUI will run on less	06:30
+perlDreamer	but it won't perform well	06:30
+perlDreamer	the more sites, the more apache and mysqld children, the more memory	06:44
+perlDreamer	elnino, google says that autoping is a notification by the site that pages have changed	06:52
+perlDreamer	either the ability to ping other sites, or to respond to those kinds of pings, I'd guess	06:52
topsub	ah. i want o get more for my box	06:52
@preaction	perlDreamer: re: Calendar, I told you so :p	06:55
+perlDreamer	I know. I'm working on a spec to send on to you.	06:55
+perlDreamer	still, there's a lot of good code in here	06:55
@preaction	yeah, but it doesn't handle the hairy cases well.	06:56
@preaction	as i've been told since i wrote it: Calendars are some of the most complicated systems to write, just because of the nature of what we consider date and time	06:56
+perlDreamer	well, if you've backlogged, I think the problems are simple, they just need to be fixed all over the place	06:57
+perlDreamer	which is where good tests come in	06:57
@preaction	indeed	06:57
+perlDreamer	due to the original coding, it's fairly easy to test	06:57
@preaction	i'm backlogged until next month probably, but i'll definately look over whatever you want me to	06:57
+perlDreamer	no need to post process HTML to get the template variables	06:57
@preaction	the way some of my projects are going, i suspect i'm really backlogged until after the WUC :p	06:58
+perlDreamer	there are fewer things cooler than hacking while watching the Matrix	06:58
@preaction	i wanted to get the Alumni site upgrade to 7.7 last month, but there's a slight problem with one of our subclasses of the Collaboration System. i haven't had a single full day to work on it since i figured out what the problem was :p	06:58
@preaction	and 7.7 has all the performance enhancements Alumni paid for	06:59
@preaction	(template attachments and minifying)	06:59
@preaction	am i correct in assuming that perl -e'undef < 3' will always be false?	07:00
+perlDreamer	yes	07:00
+perlDreamer	in numerical context, undef == 0	07:00
@preaction	in fact, that "undef TEST 'anything'" will always be false?	07:00
+perlDreamer	no	07:00
+perlDreamer	undef == 0	07:00
+perlDreamer	undef eq ''	07:00
@preaction	if undef == 0, then 0 < 3, then that is true	07:00
+perlDreamer	whoops, then I read the original question wrong	07:01
+perlDreamer	undef < 3 is always true	07:01
@preaction	yeah, you're right, crap	07:01
@preaction	then something else is wrong with my code	07:01
+perlDreamer	paste?	07:01
@preaction	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3585f2bb <- it's pretty ugly	07:03
@preaction	but the idea is that we send a notification out to a user, and then update the "importnotified" profile field with the number of the notification (1 or 2)	07:04
@preaction	after a third interval, the user gets deleted	07:05
@preaction	this workflow activity runs once per minute right now (will be moved to once per hour)	07:05
@preaction	this is where i found out that Interval form types are retarded	07:05
@preaction	this is also where i found i needed a not-profile-field :p	07:05
@preaction	(iow, this little activity should be a lot easier than it's been made here...)	07:06
+perlDreamer	this is why you want 8 days as an interval	07:06
@preaction	right	07:06
@preaction	it was 7 weeks actually, but yeah	07:06
@preaction	because 8 weeks they're deleted	07:06
+perlDreamer	are you buying my "use the right tool for the job" response?	07:06
@preaction	no, i'm not. that field IS the right tool :p	07:06
+perlDreamer	DBIx::Class vs DBI speed comparison: http://use.perl.org/~domm/journal/39213	07:07
+perlDreamer	the field is the right tool, but the secondsToInterval isn't	07:07
@preaction	anyway, right now i'm thinking that either line 39 is never reached, or that line 39 is always false	07:07
@preaction	oh, secondsToInterval can be fixed though	07:07
+perlDreamer	it can be fixed "this time"	07:08
+perlDreamer	and next time	07:09
+perlDreamer	and the time after that	07:09
+perlDreamer	but DateTime is the right solution for this time and all of them now	07:09
@preaction	no, it can be fixed permanently. divide by the larged number you can until you get an integer response	07:09
@preaction	so when $input % $divisor == 0, return $input % divisor, $labels{$divisor}	07:10
+perlDreamer	but what's more valid, 8 weeks or 2 months?	07:10
@preaction	2 months	07:10
@preaction	oh	07:10
@preaction	snap	07:10
+perlDreamer	right	07:10
@preaction	2 months != 8 weeks	07:10
+perlDreamer	well, we're talking intervals so approximately	07:10
+perlDreamer	DateTIme::Duration makes for good reading	07:11
@preaction	i still don't think it's fair to compare DBI and DBIx::Class. they're two different use-cases. for WebGUI's normal use (viewing the site), I suspect DBIx::Class will be comparable. this is a special case	07:12
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@preaction	but, it of course remains to be seen	07:12
+perlDreamer	true	07:12
@preaction	ideally i'd like to have both. one for easy prototyping, and improved speed in the other	07:12
@preaction	but with the number of moving parts in WebGUI... maybe the idea should be to reduce the number of APIs we have, period	07:13
@preaction	user, group, profile == necessary. asset == optional.	07:13
@preaction	webgui will work w/o assets, in theory	07:13
@preaction	macros, also optional. i wonder what kind of speedup we'd get without having to parse for macros	07:14
@preaction	i mean, yes, everybody loves macros. even i do, but what if there was a site you didn't need them on?	07:15
+perlDreamer	in general, JT's found that for HTML::Template that macros are faster than template variables.	07:15
@preaction	or, better, what if there was another way to get nearly the same functionality?	07:15
+perlDreamer	and that was before Graham's speed-up earlier this year	07:15
@preaction	true, and graham's speed-up was what, 3x or 30x	07:15
@preaction	one of those i know	07:15
@preaction	but still, webgui is huge and major parts are not touched by many sites	07:16
+perlDreamer	it was a bunch	07:16
@preaction	and we keep adding more parts, and those parts may or may not be used by people	07:16
+perlDreamer	it would be easy to add a check of the config file variable before doing macro processing	07:16
@preaction	exactly	07:16
+perlDreamer	if no macros are listed, skip the parse	07:17
+perlDreamer	but every default template in WebGUI uses macros	07:17
+perlDreamer	^Extras	07:17
@preaction	ah. crap	07:17
+perlDreamer	well, a lot of default templates	07:17
@preaction	well, pie in the sky. there might come a day where big pieces of webgui become optional	07:17
+perlDreamer	keep dreaming, preaction. Great things come of dreams	07:18
@preaction	i'm also thinking of implementing Test::Class sooner rather than later. i like the idea immensely	07:19
mech422	Have you guys heard of WSGI ?	07:32
+perlDreamer	sounds familiar	07:32
+perlDreamer	Web Services....?	07:32
mech422	Web Services Gateway Interface I think	07:33
mech422	basically it allows you to create 'pipelines' for processing web requests	07:33
@preaction	it's CGI++. it's also huge in the Python world	07:34
mech422	so you can (re-)configure a site to use various modules	07:34
mech422	preaction: right :-)	07:34
mech422	not sure if there's something comparable in perl	07:34
mech422	but that would be a cool way to do something like wG	07:34
mech422	for instance - i18n ? don't need it ? remove it from the pipeline	07:34
mech422	want authentication ? wire it into the pipeline	07:35
mech422	need to change template engines - rewire the pipeline	07:35
mech422	etc etc	07:35
mech422	very very cool stuff :-)	07:35
+perlDreamer	sounds like the apache request cycle	07:35
+perlDreamer	content handlers and the like	07:35
mech422	Hmm - yo no se Apache ?	07:36
mech422	:-P	07:36
mech422	oh! it would be cool to get wG running on nginx too :-)	07:36
mech422	wonder if anyone has done that yet ?	07:36
@preaction	mech422: frodwith has some time set aside to see about WebGUI as FastCGI	07:37
@preaction	(instead of mod_perl)	07:37
mech422	would FastCGI reduce teh coupling/reliance on apache ?	07:39
mech422	that would be a nice by-product :-)	07:39
+perlDreamer	I don't know. It's hard enough testing on multiple browsers.	07:41
+perlDreamer	testing on multiple servers sounds like even less fun.	07:41
@preaction	FastCGI would decouple from the server entirely.	07:42
mech422	perlDreamer: heh	07:42
@preaction	fastcgi means your application is, itself, a long-running server process	07:42
mech422	preaction: ahh - very cool :-)	07:42
+perlDreamer	preaction, you'd still have to deal with FastCGI differences on the different servers. FastCGI on apache, and all the rest.	07:43
@preaction	eh, WebGUI only has to support one if we want	07:43
mech422	umm - supposedly FCGI is a standard isn't it ?	07:43
+perlDreamer	sure, just like HTML	07:43
+perlDreamer	and like perl	07:43
* perlDreamer is too cynical nowadays		07:43
@preaction	p5 isn't a standard ;)	07:44
@preaction	p6 is	07:44
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mech422	heh - well, choice is always nice	07:44
topsub	Is it possible for an RFE to be able to delete itemsi n your clip board?	07:47
@preaction	topsub: i'll take your meaning to be "Could I make an RFE to do this"? and yes	07:47
@preaction	you can make an RFE to ask WebGUI to tie your shoes if you wanted ;)	07:47
+perlDreamer	better put a lot of karma into that last one	07:48
+perlDreamer	topsub, RFEs with patches have good chances of being implemented.	07:48
@preaction	well, they will get put into webgui as soon as the RFE's approved, provided they follow our guidelines	07:49
+perlDreamer	yeah, but this is as simple as a little UI. Add a button to the clipboard screen that says delete, pointing to func=deleteList and it's all done	07:50
+perlDreamer	1 hour tops, with hand testing and i18n	07:50
+perlDreamer	the delete button sits right next to the paste button	07:51
mech422	ok - time to make da breakfast burrito	07:56
mech422	bbl	07:56
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topsub	sorry i guess i was asking does anyone copy stuff then like.. i don't need it anymore and just want to delete it	08:01
@preaction	yes, i've done that a couple times now	08:01
+perlDreamer	i still think it's a good RFE	08:05
@preaction	yes, likewise	08:05
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CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11417 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Event.t: Clean-up of version tags in this test. Deleting a parent deletes the children.	08:10
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CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11418 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs):	08:23
CIA-44	WebGUI: Add an Event method for returning a non-inclusive end DataTime object.	08:23
CIA-44	WebGUI: Have Calendar use that for determining the end of a week in viewWeek.	08:23
CIA-44	WebGUI: Fix getEventsIn to do all comparisons in UTC so that extra events are not added in.	08:23
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11419 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Backport calendar and event fixes and tests.	08:23
+perlDreamer	preaction, if you have time, check out the new Event and Calendar tests	08:24
@preaction	kk	08:26
Radix_	lol @ http://blogs.computerworld.com/london_stock_exchange_to_abandon_failed_windows_platform	08:33
+perlDreamer	Radix_, now if they'd just switch to WebGUI...	08:34
Radix_	hey.. at least they're on the right platform!	08:34
Radix_	one small leap for man.. one huge leap for mankind..	08:35
mech422	I'm really surprised they use pc's anyway...	08:39
mech422	when I worked at TeCam systems (we did the mexico city exchange when it opened) - it was all fault tolerant minis (stratus, and that software fault tolerant one) and mainframes (IBM, DEC)	08:40
elnino	jeepers that was a long movie.. going to bed now.. Thanks perlDreamer for googling autoping. And your're right mech422, customers don't get that it has to be a 2 location thing. =)	08:40
* elnino is sleepy		08:40
mech422	elnino: g'nite :-)	08:40
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* perlDreamer is packing it in. Good night, all.		08:50
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mech422	SnowWrite is asking about aptanna ? anyone used the editor ?	09:02
@preaction	which editor?	09:07
@preaction	oh, doesn't work with Perl	09:07
@preaction	i've used Komodo IDE, which works with Perl	09:07
@preaction	hmm... based on Eclipse, which i've never liked	09:08
@preaction	but then I hate IDEs on principle	09:08
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mech422	preaction: yeah - she's looking at aptana but wants textmate or coda	09:16
mech422	aptanna doesn't work with perl ? funny - I would have thought eclipse did perl ?	09:16
mech422	I _like_ eclipse - I just wish it wasn't sooo slow as to be unusable :-P	09:16
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@preaction	eclipse does have a Perl plugin, but i don't know what aptana does that's special for Perl	09:28
mech422	ahh	09:29
@preaction	i'm a vim person, i've got plans to make vim easier to use	09:29
@preaction	there are plugins for certain things, but they're not very friendly currently	09:29
@preaction	there's a VCS plugin, for Git, SVN, CVS, but it's horrible to use	09:29
@preaction	it can be much nicer	09:29
mech422	I like kate myself... its 'just enough' ide for me	09:29
mech422	oh? I didn't realize vim had a plugin system....	09:30
@preaction	vim has a whole scripting language	09:30
@preaction	like emacs only less of a real language	09:30
@preaction	vim.org has scripts for download	09:30
@preaction	perl-support is nice, has a lot of good stuff	09:30
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+perlmonkey2	holy smokes, everyone see the new webgui padre plugin?	16:54
mech422	padre ?	17:12
mech422	oh cool :-)	17:13
SquOnk	It's a nice IDE for Perl... something for the VIM/EMACS impaired <g>	17:13
mech422	heh - rather appropriate as I just spent hours trying to get Kate (kde editor) to work properly on vista	17:16
* SquOnk shudders at anything KDE related		17:18
SquOnk	mech422: Try VIM or EMACS on Windows	17:18
mech422	Somehow I can't picture Donna using Emacs :-P Kate worked ok, but the sftp editing wouldn't go :-(	17:20
mech422	she's also looking at aptana (eclipse) and lusting after textmate and coda :-P	17:21
mech422	SquOnk: what don't you like about KDE ? what do you use instead ?	17:22
SquOnk	mech422: Gnome + Xmonad	17:22
SquOnk	mech422: Too bloated. Too windowy. Too slow even on a fast machine with loads of RAM.	17:23
mech422	dunno xmonad ? (goes to google..)	17:23
SquOnk	mech422: It's a window manager written in Haskell and thus customizable with it.	17:23
mech422	slow ? heh - can't say I've noticed, even though I'm running in a VM ?	17:23
mech422	ahh - my issue was Gnome was it always felt half done	17:23
SquOnk	mech422: It is. And when running on batteries it's _hell in summer_.	17:23
mech422	but that was years ago - I haven't really touched gnome since before miguel moved onto mono	17:24
SquOnk	mech422: Most of Gnome has no relation with Mono (yet)	17:24
SquOnk	mech422: There are some applications written in Mono, but not the core nor the really useful ones.	17:24
mech422	except the founders - I meant I havent touched gnome in lcose to 10 years...	17:24
mech422	prolly back when Miguel was still doing the evolution company (in boston? )	17:25
mech422	anyway - I'm very happy with KDE, and pissed/disappointed I can't use it for windows yet :-(	17:26
SquOnk	mech422: Hopefully you will one day.	17:28
SquOnk	I for one won't.	17:28
mech422	hmmm - wonder if Rasterman ever finished that desktop he was doing...	17:31
mech422	e17 ?	17:31
mech422	Enlightenment! thats it :-)	17:32
+perlmonkey2	The one thing I really miss about emacs is the ability to execute shell commands from a window.	17:54
SquOnk	mech422: There has been few (if any?) releases lately. He expects everyone to check out from SVN and build	17:54
+perlmonkey2	mech422: what do you like about KDE over Gnome?	17:54
SquOnk	perlmonkey2: You can do that in VIM	17:54
+perlmonkey2	SquOnk: really? how!! :D	17:54
+perlmonkey2	ah, I read oen article that said you can't and another says :sh	17:55
SquOnk	perlmonkey2: You want to run something and have it's output on a VIM window, right?	17:55
+perlmonkey2	ah, :sh is lame :(	17:55
+perlmonkey2	SquOnk: yes, like emacs does.	17:56
SquOnk	perlmonkey2: You should get the Perl plugin for VIM and be merry	17:56
+perlmonkey2	maybe I should relearn emacs. I seem to recall it being way more powerful than VIM. But I've used vim for about 10 years now, will be hard to stop.	17:56
+perlmonkey2	I have the perl plugin for vim. very nice.	17:56
SquOnk	perlmonkey2: Well, Perl -> Run -> output let's you configure where do you want your output...	17:57
SquOnk	perlmonkey2: ...then you hit Ctrl-F9 and the program will run, having whatever it outputs in either a new window or and xterm	17:58
mech422	SquOnk: yeah - there was something a few weeks ago, but it seems to be very sporadic	18:00
mech422	his personal domain is really out of date too :-(	18:00
mech422	perlmonkey2: Umm - I say KDE feels more 'polished' to me then gnome did	18:01
mech422	perlmonkey2: it just seems to fit together well, work well, and look good	18:02
mech422	perlmonkey2: I think because all the 'hard' stuff is in the base classes - back when I last really played with gnome, half the apps were broken in one way or another depending on which parts of the 'magic' the devs really understood	18:03
+perlmonkey2	hmm, maybe I should give it another go. It doesn't use Gtk but qt, right?	18:03
mech422	yeah- qt4 now	18:03
mech422	actually, if you like eye candy - its got a native compositing/effects engine that works with 2D cards now :-)	18:04
+perlmonkey2	this latest version of gnome seems fairly bullet proof. But I have nothing to compare it to.	18:04
+perlmonkey2	I use compiz with gnome and it is pretty whizbang.	18:04
+perlmonkey2	brb, going to log in with kde	18:04
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+perlmonkey2	hmm, 450MB install and I'd have to give up gnome-terminal, plus rhythmbox beats amarok any day of the week.	18:08
mech422	compviz was ok - but needed too much tweaking to get it working - then there was the whole fork-merge thing - the kde engine was all-in-one so it was trival to setup	18:09
mech422	rhythmbox ? I haven't see that	18:09
+perlmonkey2	hmm...In the Fedora 11 build compiz is a button click away.	18:10
+perlmonkey2	ust turn it on in preferences.	18:10
mech422	I actually like amarok - but I'm not much for music - just use it for the occasional streaming radio stuff	18:10
mech422	perlmonkey2: yeah - last time I tried you needed to hack config files and enable X11 crap by hand	18:11
+perlmonkey2	I need a tool for handling my ipod. I don't listen to much music on the lappy, so the fact rhythmbox has much better support for devices decied it for me.	18:11
+perlmonkey2	mech422: wow, what distro/version	18:11
+perlmonkey2	?	18:11
mech422	does gnome-terminal do tabbed sessions ? and have a ssh-agent ? that's really nice for when I have to connect to the servers	18:11
mech422	perlmonkey2: source - debian about a year ago ?	18:11
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mech422	perlmonkey2: back during the compviz - fusion split thing	18:12
+perlmonkey2	mech422: yes and yes. I couldn't live without tabbed terms	18:12
+perlmonkey2	cntrl-j/k to move back and forth.	18:12
+perlDreamer	tabbed terms are awesome	18:12
+perlmonkey2	yeah, it is like......a little slice of heaven.	18:12
+perlmonkey2	mech422: ah, fusion. I have painful memories of that.	18:13
mech422	hmm- I seem to recall something in KDE for doing ipod stuff - the poster was basically saying theres like a dozen ways to use an ipod without iTunes	18:13
mech422	yeah - tabbies rock :-)	18:13
mech422	trying to look at rythmbox now	18:14
+perlmonkey2	yes, the fedora repo has many many options. But the most complete solution that bugs me the least seems to be rythmbox.	18:14
+perlmonkey2	heh, I'm so closed minded. Not in the repos then it is alpha :P	18:14
mech422	heh - I guess ITunes really sucks - even the windows crowd hates it :-P	18:14
+perlmonkey2	yeah, I never liked it. locked up all the time, seemed to grow to take up all your memory, tried very very hard to not do what you wanted with your video. That was on XP though, no idea the experience on Mac.	18:15
mech422	here's some basic screenshots of kde 4 - http://www.kde.org/screenshots the plasma and phonon stuff is supposed to be a 'big deal'	18:15
mech422	I just know I couldn't uninstall the dam thing from xp when one of the kids installed it	18:16
+perlmonkey2	oooohhhh, shiny	18:16
+perlmonkey2	that is pretty	18:16
mech422	man - rythmbox is ugly!	18:17
mech422	are those screen shots current ?	18:17
+perlmonkey2	heh, looks a lot like macos	18:17
mech422	kde ? yeah - they have a lot of 'make kde4 into osx' type themes	18:17
+perlmonkey2	rhythmbox is ugly. They didn't get the memo that function without form is for losers.	18:17
mech422	hehe	18:17
+perlmonkey2	I don't like single menu bar though. My tool bar is jammed with quick starts and monitoring applets.	18:18
mech422	perlmonkey2: you can look at http://www.kde-look.org/ if you want to see whats out there	18:18
mech422	oh - you can have as many 'panels' as you want - is that want you mean ?	18:19
+perlmonkey2	okay okay, downloading kde now :P	18:19
mech422	heh - not pressuring :-P thats why the kde-look link - if ya like eye candy, you can browse without installing :-P	18:19
* perlDreamer doesn't like kde anymore		18:19
+perlmonkey2	mech422: is a panel a bar on the top or bottom for adding menu related stuff?	18:19
+perlDreamer	I loved kmail	18:20
+perlDreamer	until it lost my addressbook in the last upgrade	18:20
mech422	perlDreamer: kontact needs some serious love ...	18:20
mech422	kmail is its weakest piece - the time tracking stuff is killer though	18:20
+perlmonkey2	kde falls into the webkit sphere doesn't it?	18:20
mech422	webkit came from kde, yeah	18:20
+perlmonkey2	can gecko really survive with people standardizing on webkit?	18:21
mech422	umm - a panel is like a think bar you can put on anywhere on the screen with icons for launching apps, menus that 'slide' out etc	18:21
+perlmonkey2	I guess so. With an ecosystem of millions, it can probably do just fine.	18:21
mech422	they can also 'swallow' stuff to the 'systray' area	18:22
+perlmonkey2	mech422: then I probably mean a menu bar like on the bottom of the kde screens. Gnome has one on top and bottom (by default).	18:22
+perlmonkey2	oh	18:22
+perlmonkey2	no, it is called a panel	18:22
mech422	yeah - I don't see gecko going away ... but I'd love to see all the webkit fixes/enhancements merged back to KDE	18:22
+perlmonkey2	nevermind that I said anything :P	18:22
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+perlmonkey2	hmm, my userland home is about to be polluted with the billion .files from gnome plus the new ones from kde. this is about to get messy.	18:24
mech422	it shouldn't...	18:24
mech422	I thought they 'agreed' on that now	18:24
mech422	kde can use gnome shortcuts and vice versa ?	18:24
+perlmonkey2	nice	18:25
mech422	oh - you mean app specific directories for config files and such ?	18:25
+perlmonkey2	right	18:25
mech422	yeah - if you fire up a ton of new apps , you'll get them :-P	18:25
mech422	I was thinking desktop shortcuts and menus	18:25
+perlmonkey2	gnome's flora/fauna plus KDE's should make a solid mess of my .home	18:25
mech422	heh - create a new user ?	18:26
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11420 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/ (changelog/7.x.x.txt upgrades/upgrade_7.6.25-7.6.26.pl): Fix a bug in an upgrade script.	18:26
mech422	just for testing ?	18:26
+perlmonkey2	ut oh, forogt about konsole. I think that is why I abandoned kde all those years ago. No tabbing?	18:26
mech422	yeah - it tabs	18:26
+perlmonkey2	whew	18:26
mech422	but its not control-t by default - its somethign stupid	18:27
+perlmonkey2	and looks pretty doing it (from the screen shots )	18:27
mech422	check the settings	18:27
+perlmonkey2	yeah, I have to customize almost everything I use to my preferred hotkeys. Eclipse/Netbeans are egregious in their default settings.	18:27
mech422	its like shift-control-bark-at-the-moon or somethign	18:27
+perlmonkey2	hah	18:27
SquOnk	You missed --pretty-please	18:28
mech422	the 'problem' was some useless feature had usurped ctrl-t	18:28
+perlmonkey2	never can find the bark-at-the-moon key when I need it :P	18:28
mech422	its right next to vi's 'dammit!' key	18:28
mech422	quit-dammit! , save-dammit!, bark-at-the-moon-dammit!	18:29
SquOnk	In 22 years of vi I haven't had the need for such key	18:29
mech422	you don't use ':q!' ?	18:29
mech422	or ':w!' ?	18:29
SquOnk	Yes, but without the cursing :)	18:29
mech422	the '!' used to be called the 'dammit'	18:29
+perlmonkey2	oh, by damnit you mean bang! Like if you don't complete this command I'm going to get a gun and go BANG	18:29
SquOnk	I've had to remap CapsLock to ESC though, but that's a hardware problem :)	18:30
+perlmonkey2	you have to threaten VIM to show you mean it.	18:30
mech422	perlmonkey2: yeah - it used to be the dammit... then it was the 'bang" in ''sha-bang'" ('#!')	18:30
+perlmonkey2	heh, 94 minutes is the fastest I could possibly download KDE. Yay for living in the sticks.	18:31
+perlmonkey2	I like damnit better	18:31
mech422	perlmonkey2: I do too - but I'm an old redneck :-P	18:31
+perlmonkey2	but splat is just perfect and timeless.	18:31
mech422	hehe... and what was the old story about the person that called support trying to get '6' to edit their file ?	18:32
mech422	oh - and on the emacs front we have emacs = Eighty Megs And Constantly Swapping :-P	18:33
+perlmonkey2	yeah, I knew moving out here my internets would be teh sux, but a plethora of reasons to live outside the cities.	18:33
+perlmonkey2	heh	18:33
SquOnk	EMACS = EMACS Makes Any Computer Slow	18:34
SquOnk	EMACS = Escape Meta Alt Control Shift	18:34
mech422	I grew up in the sticks (New Hampshire) - so of course, I moved to the city :-) I think everyone just likes a change..	18:34
+perlmonkey2	I think emacs usually had a one keystroke advantage in editing, and could certainly traverse files faster.	18:34
mech422	SquOnk: heh - that last one opens the emacs tetris game doesn't it ? :-P	18:34
SquOnk	mech422: Wouldn't know	18:35
+perlmonkey2	no, I think it turns on the hot water in the emacs sink.	18:35
mech422	hehe	18:35
mech422	anyway - not sure KDE apps are the 'best of breed' for any particular usage.. but they fit together nicely, and seem pretty solid	18:36
mech422	I use stuff like kpdf/ockular a lot for work - along with Kate and Konversation for irc	18:36
+perlmonkey2	Hmm, I grew up in a small farming town, moved to denver for 5 years, then to a small cattle town. Then to Albuquerque, then to Tulsa, then to Toledo, then to OKC, then back to a small cattle town.	18:36
mech422	I started in New England and ended up exactly opposite - 'big city' , 'left coast'	18:37
+perlmonkey2	If I ever leave I'm thinking Sacremento megaplex area somewhere. Still surrounded by agriculture, but close to the Ocean and multitudes.	18:38
+perlmonkey2	Although if I'm rich it will be San Fran	18:39
mech422	Really? I've been thinking about going back to phx	18:39
mech422	but it would be hard to give up Fry's	18:39
mech422	(Fry's in phx suck :-P )	18:39
+perlmonkey2	What could possibly attract you to Phoenix?	18:40
mech422	oh - check out kdevelop once you got it running - it was shaping up _really_ nice last time I checked	18:40
+perlmonkey2	If you grew up with the green, the brown is hard to take. I loved Albuquerque, but the desert was just too much.	18:40
SquOnk	perlmonkey2: I'm betting is not football.	18:40
mech422	actually - I was surprised how green it is...	18:40
mech422	and how much rain there is :-P	18:40
+perlmonkey2	hmm	18:40
+perlmonkey2	Flagstaff sure isn't	18:41
mech422	but its _cheap_ , _great_ weather	18:41
mech422	oh - flag is just a wide spot in the road - they don't believe in landscaping out there	18:41
mech422	aside from a few old junkers on the lawn :-P	18:41
mech422	ASU girlies in shorts all year is a nice benefit too	18:42
+perlmonkey2	I've got a good buddy who lives in Phoenix. Used to work for Honeywell but is now in engineering sales. Absolutely loves it, so close to Mexico and decent weather.	18:42
mech422	Umm - decent tech - Amex, GE, Motorola, Intel, McDongal Douglas, etc	18:42
* SquOnk trumps ASU girlies with any Venezuelan girl		18:43
SquOnk	...which happen to be in shorts most of the time	18:43
+perlmonkey2	SquOnk++ yay for the ladies in the shorts.	18:44
mech422	only real down side is all the old snow birds	18:44
mech422	and the fact that too many califorians figured out how cool it is, and are raising the prices :-P	18:44
mech422	when intel moved in, they literally broke 2 school districts with all hte new kids	18:45
+perlmonkey2	Hmm, google maps shows Phoenix a blip of green smack in the middle of high desert. Just like Albuquerque. no thanks :)	18:45
+perlDreamer	well, notwithstanding the fact that the state has been in a financial crisis for like two years?	18:45
mech422	buidling moritoriums, lotteries for building permits, prices doubling on houses	18:45
mech422	perlDreamer: hello ? califorian - there is no finincial crisis :-P	18:46
+perlmonkey2	think of the property taxes you'll get to pay. And the knowledge that they'll be skyrocketing for years to come.	18:46
mech422	perlDreamer: I mean hell, Compared to Cali, phx is a model of responsible goverance :-P	18:47
+perlmonkey2	I have this idea that Californians will start trading goods with chopped up pieces of IOU's.	18:47
mech422	Donna just said some thing about some states considering using precious metals for trade ?	18:47
mech422	I was babbling about kde so I didnt' get the whole thing though	18:47
+perlmonkey2	mech422: I think the WaPo had an article of the 15 worst financially governed states, and I'm fairly certain AZ had a higher % of debt than cali.	18:47
+perlmonkey2	nope, cnbc	18:49
mech422	hmm - so are they handing out iou's in 4 weeks ?	18:49
+perlmonkey2	no way, the feds will jump in at the last moment.	18:50
mech422	eh - cali's like the 9th largest economy in the world... I think the feds will just let us twist in the wind till we figure it out	18:51
+perlmonkey2	The required bailout would be smaller than GM got.	18:51
+perlmonkey2	hold up, trying to get to the numbers in the cnbc slideshow. hard to do while downloading kde on a 768kbps connection :P	18:52
+perlmonkey2	$15billion shortfall in cali. Small fraction of the auto bailouts. With $300billion in revenues, how is that even possible?	18:55
mech422	ask arney :-P	18:56
+perlmonkey2	Cali's 2010 budget is 22% short and Arizona's is 28% short. For 2009, Cali also has a 6% edge in fiscal responsibility :D	18:56
mech422	6% ? I'll deal with it :-P	18:57
mech422	and its the stuff that gets cut that bugs me...	18:58
+perlmonkey2	2010 California isn't so bad being in 6th worst place, but I think they made the news cause 2009 they are really bad off compared to everyone else.	18:58
+perlDreamer	mech422, then the media is slandering California. It says the governator is like getting ready to declare bankruptcy	18:58
mech422	like schools - summer school's have cut their second session already - regardless of what happens with the budget	18:58
+perlmonkey2	mech422: wait you mean the people who got the state into this fiscal mess aren't being responsible in how they cut spending? Say it an't so :P	18:59
mech422	perlDreamer: ? As far as I know, he is ? He likes to play 'hard ball' ... so he'll shut the whole state down just to get crap rushed thru	18:59
mech422	perlmonkey2: touche!	18:59
+perlDreamer	gotcha	18:59
+perlmonkey2	I think it is a strategic move by policy makers. The cons are risking their seats, but if they scare people enough, getting tax increases through becomes much easier.	18:59
mech422	too be honest - I really feel he's brought too much 'hollywood' to the govenorship	19:00
mech422	and I'm sick of him shortchanging schools	19:00
+perlmonkey2	If we don't raise taxes we'll have to start selling children to the dog food factories!!	19:01
mech422	for instance - when I moved out here 10 years ago - Mesa arizona spent $100 more per student per year - and arney has made it even worse...	19:01
mech422	(oh more then cupertino californa - home of apple and 6 figure salaries, as opposed to mesa's then $35K median income )	19:02
+perlmonkey2	yeah, I only trust the politicians who say the first thing we need to do is hire 10x as many inspectors and auditors. Which means I don't trust any politicians.	19:02
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+perlDreamer	man, it is so odd to write method calls _inside_ WebGUI::Session	19:04
+perlDreamer	my fingers are trained to type $session->var	19:04
+perlDreamer	$session->log	19:04
+perlDreamer	and typing $self->var just looks odd	19:04
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: you're hacking session?	19:05
+perlDreamer	it does need to be bug fixed every now and then	19:05
+perlmonkey2	how do you keep from cracking under the pressure? one mistake and you take down half the internets :P	19:06
+perlDreamer	well, having done it already does help	19:06
+perlDreamer	It was the great Form fiasco of 2006	19:06
+perlDreamer	we have this thing called the Text form	19:06
+perlDreamer	I broke that	19:06
+perlmonkey2	bah, who even uses that :P	19:07
+perlDreamer	I know	19:07
+perlDreamer	Losers!	19:07
+perlmonkey2	mech422: I know how to solve all the country's fiscal problems. Give the GAO power to direct the DoJ or at least create Grand Juries. Boom, done. Overnight everything instantly fixed, or at least exposed to lots of sunlight.	19:09
mech422	Hmm - I dont know...	19:18
mech422	wouldn't that just make the GAO auditors the new 'crooked politicians' ?	19:18
+perlmonkey2	mech422: maybe in the future, but right now I think the ranks of beurocrats that inhabit that place are pretty hard core patriots trying to dig out corruption and expose it. Else why work there, being an accountant in the market pays much better.	19:21
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mech422	permonkey2: heh - I've always thought that to be part of the problem - given govt. salaries, the best and brightest would naturally tend to gravitate around more lucrative, private positions	19:37
mech422	perlmonkey2: leading me to doubt either the abilities or the motives of the people that actually take the jobs...	19:38
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r11421 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix the form for the Product. It was returning variants with no quantity.	19:38
mech422	but to be honest, I've only really been exposed to state workers - not federal employees	19:38
mech422	authorize.net is down ?	19:39
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+perlmonkey2	mech422: kde is way cooler than I thought it would be. I don't even know why Gnome exists anymore let alone is the default windowing system.	20:38
mech422	perlmonkey2: sorry man - if that was saracasm it went undetected :-)	20:39
mech422	or maybe I'm just so used to it I take it for granted ?	20:39
@preaction	KDE is imho where Gnome should be trying to go in terms of customizability and features	20:41
@preaction	Gnome is so focused on usability that they seem to miss new features that could help them reach their usability goal	20:41
mech422	[10:17] <Lenolium> Gnome has a bunch of standalone apps, KDE actually has integration.	20:41
mech422	[10:17] <Lenolium> Konqueror is fast but stupid.	20:41
mech422	[	20:41
mech422	that seems to be my feeling as well - kde has integration..	20:42
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@preaction	integration is good though, see OS X	20:42
perlmonkey21	mech422: missed that last, kde locked up on me	20:42
mech422	btw - a friend just asked about gnome vs kde for his new install - he got kde 3-to-0 as the answer...	20:43
mech422	perlmonkey21: really ? wow - thats odd ? the app or the whole desktop ?	20:43
@preaction	there's no simple app to get photos off of a camera, you use iPhoto, which also has editing built-in	20:43
perlmonkey21	mech422: the whole desktop	20:43
perlmonkey21	couldn't even ctrl-alt # into a non-x term.	20:43
mech422	perlmonkey21: are you on kde 3 or kde 4 ?	20:43
perlmonkey21	mech422: fedora 11 kde 4.2.4.2 or whatever it is.	20:44
perlmonkey21	latest stable I think	20:44
mech422	ahh - can't help there - I don't do RH - I'm more of a debian man	20:44
mech422	donna is running kunbuntu with kde 4.2 in a virtual box - no problems	20:45
mech422	I'm running (cry) 3.X in a virtual box	20:45
mech422	neither of us has had lock ups though ?	20:46
mech422	perlmonkey21: btw - do you really like kde or was the early comment meant as sarcasm? Maybe I just take kde for granted now ?	20:46
perlmonkey21	mech422: no, it is way slicker than I thought it was going to be. Puts gnome to shame.	20:47
perlmonkey21	But QT is just a nicer looking library than Gtk and also 100x easier to work with.	20:47
mech422	heh - cool - glad you like it :-)	20:47
mech422	I find KDE really good for my day to day stuff	20:47
perlmonkey21	hmm, not hotkey to make konsole window full size, it is either full screen or nothing.	20:48
perlmonkey21	s/not/no/	20:48
mech422	? isn't full size == full screen ?	20:48
perlmonkey21	well I just want the window made its max size, full screen means it is the only things showing with the bottom panel covered up.	20:49
mech422	btw - you can add 'decorators' to the windows - I think there's 'slots' for up to 6 of them ?	20:49
mech422	ahh	20:49
perlmonkey21	actually let me check again, I'm not used to it being down there and might have misunderstood what happened.	20:49
perlmonkey21	nope, it covers up the panel	20:49
mech422	the panel can autohide too if that helps	20:49
perlmonkey21	no, I like it down there.	20:50
mech422	in 3.5 it does what you want	20:50
perlmonkey21	usually have my network machine monitors there	20:50
mech422	so there is prolly an option for it in the settings somewhere ?	20:50
mech422	my 'maximize' decorator does it	20:50
perlmonkey21	what is the maximize hotkey?	20:51
mech422	(btw - you can change the decorators on the border - you know close, minimize,maximize)	20:51
mech422	lemme look in the settings and see if there's a keyboard shortcut	20:51
perlmonkey21	hah, you can drag desktop widgets into the panel and they have a panel mod.e	20:54
perlmonkey21	too much fun.	20:54
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mech422	perlmonkey: live desktop previews in the pager are nice too :-)	20:55
mech422	perlmonkey21: you can get more 'plasmoids' (desktop widgets) from www.kde-look.org	20:56
mech422	can find a shortcut for maximize though - just the window decorators	20:56
mech422	ah-ha!	20:57
mech422	its un-assigned in my version	20:57
mech422	you can assign it in control panel->regional and accesibility->keyboard shortcuts	20:58
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perlmonkey22	pager locked itup. I guess no compiz for me in kde	20:58
mech422	oh no...	20:58
mech422	no	20:58
mech422	use the builtin schtuff	20:58
mech422	sorry - I should have thought of that	20:59
mech422	I don't think it plays nice with compiz	20:59
perlmonkey22	well I turned the compiz settings down last time.	20:59
perlmonkey22	although the kde menus don't even mention the name compiz, just call it desktop effects.	20:59
mech422	I'd actually turn it off (remove the module?)	20:59
perlmonkey22	Probably asking too much from an intel g50 vid.	20:59
mech422	yeah - kde has a builtin effects/compositing engine	21:00
mech422	nah - it was designed for use on even 2d cards :-)	21:00
mech422	that was one of the big selling points of using it instead of compiz	21:00
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mech422	'plasma' should be much lighter and snappier, and support older cards better	21:01
perlmonkey22	hmm, so in desktop settings turning on effects turns on plasma and not compiz?	21:03
mech422	Umm - I didn't think compiz was an option... but I would definately use plasma	21:03
perlmonkey22	then it must be plasma which is locking up	21:03
mech422	but you still have compiz running from your gnome session don't you ?	21:04
* mech422 is confused ?		21:04
mech422	our machines don't even have compiz installed - so I'm not quite sure what optiosn your getting ?	21:04
perlmonkey22	mech422: nope, no gnome sessions running	21:05
mech422	not gnome - compiz? it used to hook into x11.conf and have its own daemon and crap didn't it ?	21:05
perlmonkey22	well I have gnome-keyring and gdm-simple-slave	21:05
mech422	actually - gnome is fine - its compiz I think is a problem	21:05
perlmonkey22	But I think those are both fro the login screen.	21:05
perlmonkey22	compiz isn't running	21:06
mech422	you can run gnome apps inside kde (and kde apps inside gnome)	21:06
mech422	I do that with stuff like Gimp	21:06
mech422	ok - so no compiz, plasma turned on - do you have 'full' eye candy or did you tone it down any ?	21:07
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perlmonkey22	mech422: I started with full eye candy. toned it down. then turned it off	21:08
mech422	hmm - donna had 'desktop effects' disabled in hers :-P	21:09
mech422	ahh - the 'all effects' tab...	21:09
mech422	last I checked - some of the effects were a bit flaky (they are plugins)	21:09
mech422	I had these working fine: explosion, fade, magic lamp, transluceny, wobbly windows	21:11
mech422	desktop cube, cover switch, and one of the 'live preview' pager thingys	21:12
mech422	oh! on advanced - we have compositing type 'openGL'	21:13
+perlDreamer	mech422: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/0rigp6NJ3Ks/Seattle-Data-Center-Outage-Disrupts-E-Commerce	21:18
mech422	yeah - authorize is getting hammered - a fire in the NOC, and the backups failed ?	21:19
mech422	looks like they're coming back on line now according to their twitter stream	21:21
mech422	perlmonkey22: 'desktop grid' is a nifty effect	21:23
mech422	sorta like a extra-large 'live preview'	21:24
perlmonkey22	mech422: not going to try effects again. last time I had desktop effects locking up I had an ex2 corruption that was only resolved with a fresh install.	21:32
mech422	dam man - you are having a ton of problems	21:36
mech422	sorry bout that - I haven't had any issues to speak of :-(	21:37
perlmonkey22	with effects turned off things are working just fine. no worries.	21:39
mech422	heh - donna likes the eye candy - but I'm still on 3.5	21:43
mech422	btw - _this is cool_ - http://basket.kde.org :-)	21:44
mech422	if you like 'oneNote' or ad-hoc 'association' programs, basket is awesome :-)	21:44
mech422	but last I checked it wasn't ready for kde4 :-(	21:45
mech422	the really cool thing was being able to 'attach' files to your baskets...	21:46
perlmonkey22	wow, that is pretty cool	21:50
mech422	perlmonkey22: yeah - there's a nice time tracker too	21:56
mech422	fire up 'kontact' and poke around a bit - its a pretty good outlook/evolution type app	21:56
mech422	I need sleep	21:57
mech422	I got 2 hours last night, then couldn't sleep :-(	21:57
mech422	perlmonkey22: I'll be back later :-) Save up any questions for me :-)	21:57
perlmonkey22	mech422: groovy, thanks :)	22:03
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mech422	perlmonkey22: Hmm - kde 4.2.4 is out and supposedly much nicer then 4.2.2 (at least on debian...)	23:08
mech422	perlmonkey22: maybe upgrading to 4.2.4 or 4.3rc1 would help ?	23:08
+perlDreamer	mech422, I thought you were asleep	23:31
mech422	perlmonkey22: http://userbase.kde.org/GPU-Performance	23:51
mech422	perlDreamer: yeah - I thought so too :-P	23:51
mech422	its not quite insomnia - but my sleep schedule seems to be getting really really whack	23:51
+perlDreamer	yeah	23:53
+perlDreamer	that's not healthy, dude	23:54
* perlDreamer recommends a strong dose caffeine, then go to bed at 11:00pm		23:54
+perlDreamer	sleep until 7:00 the next day	23:54
mech422	heh - 7 pm you mean ? I've had 2 hours sleep since what - 3pm yesterday ? going to 11pm would result in a coma :-P	23:55
--- Day changed Sat Jul 04 2009
+perlDreamer	no, sleep 8 hours a day. 11:00pm to 7:00am	00:04
* perlDreamer moonlights as a doctor		00:05
+perlDreamer	is it bad if you laptop starts smelling hot, like solder?	00:06
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Not if you have a rare steak near	00:28
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, you'd ruin a good steak with solder?	00:29
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Smear some bbq and you won't notice	00:30
SquOnk	Besides, you haven't had steak until you've had an argentinian steak	00:30
+perlDreamer	indeed	00:36
* SquOnk will be cooking a "parrillada" argentinian style tomorrow		00:37
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+perlDreamer	later, everyone	00:51
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elnino	Happy 4th everyone! Bye	06:35
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11422 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (Wobject/StoryTopic.pm Wobject.pm Story.pm):	20:22
CIA-46	WebGUI: Fix POD to increase POD coverage, mainly by fixing typos and removing	20:22
CIA-46	WebGUI: unused code.	20:22
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11423 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Crud.pm Shop/Transaction.pm FilePump/Bundle.pm): Add missing POD, or fix POD typos which caused coverage to be low.	20:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11424 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm Account/Shop.pm): More POD fixes.	20:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11425 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku.pm: Add missing POD for Tax.	20:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11426 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Poll.pm: Add missing POD.	22:08
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11427 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Poll.pm: Use as many autogenerated form fields as possible.	22:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11428 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/PayDriver/ (PayPal.pm Ogone.pm): Fix POD capitalization.	22:53
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+perlDreamer	Happy 4th of July, everyone!	23:22
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11429 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Add missing POD and fix POD typos in subroutine names. 30/441 failing 100% POD coverage.	23:23
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11430 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (FilePile.pm Template.pm): Add missing POD to these assets.	23:37
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11431 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Image/Graph/ (XYGraph/Line.pm Pie.pm XYGraph.pm XYGraph/Bar.pm): Add missing POD to WebGUI::Image and child classes, and fix any POD typos that affect coverage.	23:53
--- Day changed Sun Jul 05 2009
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11432 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm: Add missing POD to Layout.	00:07
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11433 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/PayDriver/PayPal/PayPalStd.pm: Add missing POD to PayPalStd.	00:07
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11434 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/InOutBoard.pm: Add missing POD. Refactor to use the definition to draw the edit form.	00:22
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11435 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Product.pm: Add missing to the Product.	00:52
+perlDreamer	Anybody mind if I watch Airwolf?	01:16
+perlDreamer	I can turn down the volume if it's too loud	01:17
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11436 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/PayDriver/ITransact.pm: Add missing POD to ITransact	02:22
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11437 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Graphics.pm: Add missing pod to Operation/Graphics.	02:22
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11438 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration/Newsletter.pm:	02:37
CIA-46	WebGUI: Remove methods that are copy/paste from the skeleton, and add missing POD	02:37
CIA-46	WebGUI: to the Newsletter.	02:37
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11439 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/PerformanceProfiler.pm: Add missing POD to PerformanceProfiler.	03:08
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11440 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (File.pm File/Image.pm):	03:52
CIA-46	WebGUI: Add POD missing from File and Image. Remove duplicate code in Image that	03:52
CIA-46	WebGUI: can be inherited from File.	03:52
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11441 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/ (HttpProxy.pm HttpProxy/Parse.pm): Add missing POD to the HttpProxy	03:52
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11442 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm: Add POD missing from the WikiPage. 12/441 files left	04:07
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11443 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.pm: Add POD missing from WikiMaster	06:27
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11444 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm: Fix a POD whitespace issue in the WikiPage.	06:55
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11445 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm: Add missing POD to the Post.	06:55
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11446 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm: Add POD for some methods in the Thread.	07:09
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chimpbabwe	sick of fat, ugly, dog-faced bitches constantly running their mouths?	09:16
chimpbabwe	go to www.cumshotonherface.com	09:16
chimpbabwe	see girls who are actually easy on the eyes	09:16
chimpbabwe	and know what god gave them their mouths for	09:16
chimpbabwe	for worshipping cock	09:16
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+perlDreamer	If anyone is bored today, I have a core project that I could use some help on.	19:23
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11447 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm: Add missing POD, and fix POD typos in the Thread.	19:41
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11448 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Dashboard.pm: Add missing POD to Dashboard 8/441	19:56
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11449 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/AssetCollateral/DataForm/Entry.pm: Add missing POD in DataForm::Entry	20:09
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11450 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/AssetCollateral/DataForm/Entry.pm: Fix a bug in AssetCollateral/DataForm/Entry with renameField.	20:23
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11451 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/lib/WebGUI/AssetCollateral/DataForm/Entry.pm: Backportind DataForm entry bugfix.	20:23
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11452 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm: Add some of the POD missing from the Shortcut.	22:09
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11453 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm: Add the remainder of the missing POD for the Shortcut.	22:38
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11454 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Group.pm t/Group.t): Have just 1 list of groups that should not be deleted.	23:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11455 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	23:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: Unify the list of protected groups into Group->vitalGroup. Refactor	23:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: WebGUI::Test and Operation/Group to use that list.	23:53
--- Day changed Mon Jul 06 2009
+perlDreamer	5 more modules to go...	00:04
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11456 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Group.pm: Add the missing POD, and fix broken POD that I just committed.	00:07
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+perlDreamer	tavisto!	06:02
@tavisto	howdy, happy 4th of July	06:02
+perlDreamer	you, too, dude.	06:02
@tavisto	i still have large fireworks going off in my neighborhood	06:02
Radix_	you guys still partying?	06:02
@tavisto	I celebrated today by firing off about 8-10 different guns with a bunch of friends of mie	06:02
@tavisto	mine	06:02
+perlDreamer	are you lighting them, or is it the neighbors?	06:03
Radix_	it's like the 6th july here	06:03
@tavisto	not me.. someone in my neighborhood. There are 165 houses in my neighborhood so not sure	06:03
@tavisto	It's July 5th right now.. in 1 hour it'll be the 6th cuz I'm EDT	06:03
Radix_	anything bigger than a sparkler here is illegal :(	06:03
@tavisto	the rule of thumb is that many places stagger their fireworks shows so that they aren't all at the same time	06:04
@tavisto	so some do it Friday, some do it Saturday, and others do it tonight	06:04
Radix_	cool.. happy 4th july for you guys anyway :)	06:04
Radix_	our celebrations are january 26th - australia day ;)	06:04
@tavisto	and in Michigan we can't have any of the big fun fireworks... Against state law... So people to go neighboring states and smuggle them into Michigan :)	06:05
@tavisto	I see... I'll try and remember that	06:05
+perlDreamer	They're just upholding the fine tradition of rebellion and challenging laws	06:05
+perlDreamer	"Because that' taxation without representation, and that's not fair."	06:05
@preaction	most states have those same laws: you can't purchase fireworks in the state, but you can purchase them outside and bring them in	06:06
@preaction	(wisconsin has one too, at least)	06:07
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11457 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm:	06:27
CIA-46	WebGUI: Add missing POD. Also, do not call methods from Wobject that are inherited from	06:27
CIA-46	WebGUI: Asset.	06:27
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CIA-46	WebGUI: doug * r11458 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Auth/LDAP.pm: Added POD to WebGUI::Auth::LDAP	06:42
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11459 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/User.pm: Add missing POD for Operation/User.pm	06:55
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11460 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataForm.pm: Add 40% to POD coverage in DataForm.	07:10
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11461 /WebGUI/t/POD.t: Add POD_COVERAGE==3 switch to find empty POD blocks.	07:10
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11462 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Add the missing Map icons.	07:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11463 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm: Fix mistakes in POD for Storage.pm	07:53
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+perlDreamer	How 'bout you, stDavid. Want to help us reach 100% Pod coverage for WebGUI?	07:55
stDavid	Sure pD... Now?	07:57
+perlDreamer	Pod::Coverage has a bug. If won't work propertly if the package declaration does not match the file name and path.	07:57
+perlDreamer	So Asset.pm, AssetTrash.pm, et. al. register as missing POD.	07:57
+perlDreamer	I have a small test case that exposes the bug, but I'm sure that it would be fixed more quickly with a patch.	07:58
+perlDreamer	You up for taking a look at it?	07:58
+perlDreamer	This weekend, I hand added missing POD for 39 modules. Doug ponied up for writing one, too.	07:59
stDavid	Actually I was on my way to bed (EST here). My son gets me up pretty early in the morning. But tomorrow I've got some time mid-day if that works...	08:00
+perlDreamer	sure!	08:00
* perlDreamer didn't know you had children		08:01
stDavid	One 11 year-old... We're working on a robotics project this summer together for a Carnegie Mellon program. He keeps me VERY busy	08:03
stDavid	Hence the early wake-up calls	08:03
+perlDreamer	yeah, early sucks, but helping make robots with you son, that's priceless.	08:03
stDavid	Wouldn't trade it for anything. You have 2 kids?	08:04
+perlDreamer	yeah, two boys. 8 and 10	08:04
stDavid	(sometimes) wish they would stay that age forever	08:04
stDavid	but, as they get older, there are more things you can do with them	08:05
stDavid	the trick is to stay close to them	08:05
+perlDreamer	yes. It's not easy to do.	08:05
stDavid	no, it's not, but	08:05
stDavid	always must try	08:06
stDavid	Well, I'm off to bed. I'll buzz you when I get a couple of free hours tomorrow. (You really wrote 39 POD's this weekend?)	08:07
+perlDreamer	yeah, check the svn history.	08:08
+perlDreamer	I didn't have to write them all,	08:08
+perlDreamer	just the missing ones	08:08
+perlDreamer	I type very fast	08:08
stDavid	I believe you, just makes my hands sweaty thinking about it though. Writing any documentation is beyond valor IMHO.	08:09
+perlDreamer	thanks :)	08:10
stDavid	YW - ttyl	08:10
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11464 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataForm.pm: Add the rest of the missing POD to the DataForm.	08:37
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+bartjol	morning	10:55
Radix_	morning bart	11:29
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+bartjol	hey colin	17:41
+perlDreamer	Hey, bartjol!	17:41
+perlDreamer	How are you doing this week?	17:41
+bartjol	I was wondering something regarding internationalization	17:41
+perlDreamer	What is it?	17:41
+bartjol	well in march I had a small conversation with JT	17:41
+bartjol	on setting the language of a setting	17:42
+bartjol	my proposal was to use a scratch variable	17:42
+bartjol	which he was ok with	17:42
+bartjol	if it was documented and API'd	17:42
+bartjol	that is actually not the hard part	17:43
+bartjol	but	17:43
+bartjol	when the Internationalization partt gets the language	17:43
+bartjol	with thegetLanguage method	17:43
@Haarg	the language of a setting?	17:43
+bartjol	sorry, session	17:44
+bartjol	my bad	17:44
+bartjol	okl, during the retrieval, the language is given as a parameter	17:45
+bartjol	to that method	17:45
+bartjol	my question is:	17:45
+bartjol	what would be better, give the language as a parameter, or let the getLanguage method figure out what language to get	17:46
@Haarg	what do you want to accomplish with per-session languages?	17:46
+perlDreamer	I think the end goal is for a Visitor to choose their preferred language, without having an account	17:46
+bartjol	well, that a visitor user can read the i18n text in they're own language	17:46
+perlmonkey2	hmm, I'm not liking how I'm reregistering session's crypt object every time the encryption provider changes. What if the crypt object kept in memory members of each provider as it was used. Since once it is used it is likely to be used quite a bit?	17:46
+bartjol	like: if you can't read the text: "register here", how can you expect people to register	17:47
@Haarg	my plan for wg8 is that visitor (at least) will base the language on the http request headers	17:47
+bartjol	well, but thgat means there will be an extra variable somewhere, instead of the visitors profile language	17:48
+bartjol	which is ok, but if I am in the states, I still might wat to read duitch text	17:49
+bartjol	so you want to be able to change it	17:49
@Haarg	true	17:49
@Haarg	either way, it will work quite differently in 8	17:50
+bartjol	so they don't bite each other, but complete each other	17:50
@Haarg	language is going to have a different api around it and probably won't be a user profile field	17:50
+bartjol	also not when logged in?	17:50
+perlDreamer	what would it be instead, Haarg?	17:50
@Haarg	likely directly in the user table	17:51
@Haarg	we could easily have a scratch variable as part of that api	17:51
+bartjol	well, at the moment, that should not be too hard either	17:52
+bartjol	but, for the sake of my knowledge, let's go back to my original question	17:52
+bartjol	the exercise of making it, will be obsolete	17:52
@Haarg	yeah, we could add what you are proposing in 7.8	17:53
+perlDreamer	bartjol, from reading International.pm, the scratch variable needs to be in two places	17:54
+bartjol	pro for the embedding in the getLanguage method is, that you don't have to make a language variable each time you call the getlanguage method	17:54
+perlDreamer	sub get, and sub makeUrlCompliant	17:55
@Haarg	i would think the best way to do it would be to have International->new just pull from an additional source when getting defaults	17:55
@Haarg	makeUrlCompliant should be adjusted anyway. it wasn't adjusted along with the rest of the methods	17:56
@Haarg	->{_language} will always exist now so there is no reason for it to try to pull defaults	17:56
+perlDreamer	I see your point about putting it in new. It's not likely to change mid-request	17:57
@Haarg	even if it were, it would be the same as the user changing their language	17:58
@Haarg	and i18n objects don't stay around for the whole request	17:58
+perlDreamer	not yet, anyway :)	18:00
@Haarg	we could possibly change that in 7.8. as long as things to according to plan the 8.0 api will be procedural.	18:03
+bartjol	well, that sounds nic	18:06
+bartjol	ew	18:06
+bartjol	so in overview:	18:09
+bartjol	the I18n module gets a variable setLanguageScratchVar	18:09
+bartjol	and the method new finds out what the value is, if not it defaults to the profile language (at the moment)	18:10
@Haarg	something like that	18:10
+bartjol	not a vraiable, but a method	18:10
+bartjol	which sets a scratch variable language	18:11
+bartjol	argh	18:11
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+perlmonkey2	Woah, with state and federal tax credits, looks like those small open air electric vehicles springing up everywhere are free after all the rebates are finished: http://www.adaeveningnews.com/local/local_story_176122627.html	19:34
+perlDreamer	heh	19:37
+perlDreamer	going to buy one?	19:37
+perlDreamer	and what's the charging time?	19:37
+perlmonkey2	might especially if they are free. Everywhere I go is pretty much in range 10x over with those things.	19:40
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: 6 12V batteries in series so 72V at ~30AH. So 2.2KwH. ~$.15 to completely fill up.	19:43
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: I'd think the larger problem is they use normal golf cart batteries. Lucky to get 500 charges before replacing them.	19:48
+perlmonkey2	But I guess that's a few years of normal daily use.	19:49
+perlDreamer	yeah	19:49
+perlDreamer	how long is a charge?	19:49
+perlmonkey2	30 miles they say.	19:49
+perlmonkey2	at 25mph.	19:49
+perlDreamer	ah, how long to recharge?	19:49
+perlDreamer	8 hours, 12 hours?	19:50
+perlmonkey2	2KwH....just limited on how fast the batteries can safely take a charge. 4-8 hour range I'd guess.	19:50
+perlDreamer	and will they plug into a windmill?	19:50
+perlmonkey2	hah	19:50
+perlDreamer	I was looking into building a solar charger for my lawnmower	19:50
+perlDreamer	but it takes about 5 cents to recharge it	19:50
+perlmonkey2	that'd be pretty cool.	19:50
+perlDreamer	and the cells cost a lot	19:50
+perlDreamer	I've seen homemade recharging rigs costing about $100	19:51
+perlDreamer	which is a long time for breakeven	19:51
+perlmonkey2	yeah, I have set $.07KwH power or could get it as low as $.04KwH if I wanted to stop using power between 2-7pm.	19:51
+perlmonkey2	Getting it anywhere except the grid is not going to be making you money.	19:52
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: talked to my brother who's a Mercedes mechanic. Does a ton of welding on hot rods in his shop. Set me straight on welders. Said a simple small wire welder from a big box store will do anything I'm likely to need. Just looking at reviews online to see which box store to get it from.	19:55
+perlDreamer	awesome!	19:55
+perlDreamer	that's been a stopping point for a long time	19:55
+perlmonkey2	yeah, kept going to auctions, which are fun, but I'd see the nice welders going for kilobucks. I have to many hobbies to drop kilobucks on any given one :P	19:56
+perlmonkey2	and I've discovered the steel/metal recycling place. It is a wonderland for anyone who contemplates what exactly a welder means.	19:57
+perlDreamer	nice :)	19:58
+perlDreamer	what's the correct way to write this in bash: for file in (Asset*.pm); do perl -I /data/WebGUI/lib/ -wc %; done	20:01
+perlDreamer	seems like it is for file in Asset.*.pm; do perl -I /data/WebGUI/lib -wc $file; done	20:03
+perlmonkey2	bash knows what to do with 'Asset.*.pm' ?	20:05
+perlDreamer	yup	20:05
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11465 /WebGUI/ (19 files in 11 dirs):	20:11
CIA-46	WebGUI: Provide a framework for CSRF protection, with tests.	20:11
CIA-46	WebGUI: Add CSRF protection to Asset editSave, AssetManager, VersionTags and Group operations.	20:11
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dionak	anyone online familiar with the survey asset?	20:24
+perlDreamer	I hear that perlmonkey2 is	20:25
+perlDreamer	but patspam is the most recent developer of it	20:25
dionak	i'm trying to setup ranking questions and don't see how to do it. I need responders to rank a list of values so i'll know if pricing is more important than features, for instance.	20:25
dionak	thanks, pd.	20:25
dionak	perlmonkey2, are you available?	20:26
dionak	ok, thanks. I've emailed Pat	20:33
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11466 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (7 files in 2 dirs):	20:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: Automatically add a token to any autogenerated form.	20:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: Refactor previous commits to take advantage of that.	20:38
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David___	Hello i have a question, what is the best way to migrate from windows webgui to linux	20:41
+perlDreamer	copy your config file	20:42
+perlDreamer	your database file	20:42
+perlDreamer	and your uploads directory	20:42
David___	i have tried porting the uploads directory as well as a dump from the database but i don't get all my content the same way	20:42
@Haarg	what problems do you run into?	20:42
David___	most of it is there, but not all	20:42
David___	some of my pictures are missing	20:42
@Haarg	some of the files appear to be missing?	20:42
David___	yes..apper is the right word	20:43
@Haarg	what version are you using	20:43
@Haarg	?	20:43
David___	windows 7.4.40 stable	20:43
David___	i need to go to linux latetst webgui version	20:43
@Haarg	ok	20:44
@Haarg	in the uploads directories there are a bunch of 2 character directories, and under those more 2 character directories	20:44
David___	yes	20:44
David___	that is correct	20:45
@Haarg	the problem is that on windows, the file system is case insensitive, so some of those directories can get combined when they shouldn't	20:45
@Haarg	the third level directories that are 22 characters long should have the correct case	20:45
@Haarg	and the first two levels are created using characters 1-2 and 3-4 of that 22 character id	20:45
@Haarg	so if you know some shell or perl scripting you can move them to the correct paths	20:46
@Haarg	somewhere i have a script to do that but i don't know where	20:46
David___	i am very limited on shell , and no knowledge on perl	20:47
David___	sorry i m newbie on this	20:47
@Haarg	http://haarg.org/fixUploadsCase.pl	20:49
@Haarg	after transfering the files to the linux machine, run	20:50
@Haarg	perl fixUploadsCase.pl /data/domains/www.site.com/public/uploads	20:50
+perlDreamer	Haarg, can I stick that on the Bazaar?	20:51
@Haarg	sure	20:51
David___	ok.. i 'll try it	20:51
@Haarg	perlDreamer, there is also http://haarg.org/convert_storage.pl	20:52
@Haarg	which is not set up for use on a live site, but shows the concept	20:52
@Haarg	moving from base64 to hex directories	20:52
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@Haarg	wb	20:53
+perlDreamer	haarg, what would be the difference between the 2?	20:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11467 /WebGUI/t/Form.t: Check for generation of the csrf token.	20:53
+perlDreamer	pidgin crashed	20:53
@Haarg	[12:52:16] <Haarg> perlDreamer, there is also http://haarg.org/convert_storage.pl	20:53
@Haarg	[12:52:32] <Haarg> which is not set up for use on a live site, but shows the concept	20:53
@Haarg	[12:52:55] <Haarg> moving from base64 to hex directories	20:53
+perlDreamer	and must be used with what version of WebGUI?	20:54
@Haarg	the first is for correcting the case problems, the second for moving to hex encoding	20:54
@Haarg	currently we support both	20:54
@Haarg	all new storage locations are created as hex	20:54
@Haarg	but if a hex location doesn't exist it will check for a base64 version	20:55
@Haarg	i think 7.6 is when that change happened	20:55
@Haarg	7.6.3	20:56
+perlDreamer	how much do you want for it, Haarg?	21:15
@Haarg	if you're willing to clean it up you can do with it whatever you please	21:16
+perlDreamer	since you can only put in dollars, and not more useful things like karma, beer or pizza, I'll just put them there for people to download	21:24
ckotil	heh.	21:55
+perlDreamer	there are people, real people, who can eat food by themselves, right?	22:07
* perlDreamer is despairing of having a nice meal with adults		22:08
+perlDreamer	or at least people who don't talk with their mouth stuffed full of food	22:08
@preaction	heh	22:09
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+perlDreamer	sorry, preaction	22:46
@preaction	about?	22:50
@preaction	WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO ME?	22:50
@preaction	WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END? WHY GOD WHYYYYYY	22:50
+perlDreamer	It's one bug per week, dude	22:50
+perlDreamer	Kind of like Klinger and the pins	22:51
+perlDreamer	Just sign my Section 8 papers	22:51
@bopbop	oh goodie, you gave him my bug!	22:52
@bopbop	yippeeee	22:52
+perlDreamer	Do you have any other bugs that I need to assign to preaction?	22:53
@bopbop	maybe	22:53
@preaction	dot.dot.dot	22:53
@preaction	at first I was like "LOL" but then, I srsed	22:54
@bopbop	there's the edit field in thing	22:54
@bopbop	but I'm not sure that's for him	22:54
+perlDreamer	no, that's either Yung or a generic bug fixer	22:54
@bopbop	yup	22:54
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11468 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Allow snippets to be really empty, without showing the Page Not Found screen.	22:54
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11469 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Backporting snippet fix.	22:54
+perlDreamer	what is "srs"ed, preaction?	22:55
@preaction	serioused	22:55
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@preaction	it's the opposite of this: http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/i-lold.jpg	22:57
SDuensin	Likely old news for you guys: http://www.cmswire.com/cms/web-cms/open-source-web-content-management-for-retailers-003948.php	23:19
* perlDreamer goes on an errand		23:19
@preaction	THEY DONT' LIKE THE ROCKSTAR BANNER?	23:20
@preaction	damn them. i thought that was the best thing evar	23:20
SDuensin	I did. :-)	23:20
SDuensin	I posted a nice comment for that article. Hopefully it goes up soon.	23:20
@preaction	maybe we just like cheesy things	23:22
SDuensin	I also just got off the phone with a guy who does a lot of custom hosting and development. Was working hard to sell him on WebGUI. He'll be calling back in about 30 minutes to learn more.	23:22
@preaction	sweet	23:22
@preaction	it's great to have people to share the excitement with. it just keeps getting more and more exciting, and more people need to share!	23:23
SDuensin	Speaking of sharing, it'd sure be nice to get that VFS WebDAV into the main release... :-P	23:23
@preaction	don't worry, it's coming, be patient	23:24
SDuensin	Just being the squeaky wheel. Hint, hint. :-D	23:24
David___	Hey Haarg. i did what you suggested and it ran moving some files but in other i get Use of uninitialized value $part1 in string ne at fixUploadsCase.pl line 7.	23:25
David___	Use of uninitialized value $realPart1 in string ne at fixUploadsCase.pl line 7.	23:25
SDuensin	I'd give you all my karma for it, but that's almost insulting. (I only have 830!)	23:25
David___	and the images are still missing	23:25
@preaction	we can't release any features until we branch for new development, which won't be until 7.7 goes stable	23:25
@Haarg	you ran it with the full uploads path as a paramater?	23:25
@preaction	so if you want new features to come sooner, we need all the bugs currently reported fixed	23:25
@Haarg	*parameter	23:25
SDuensin	Yea, I know that. Type faster!	23:25
David___	yes .. just like you sent it to me	23:25
David___	perl fixUploadsCase.pl /data/domains/www2/public/uploads	23:26
David___	can it be the different versions of webgui?	23:26
@Haarg	shouldn't be	23:27
@Haarg	what do you get from ls /data/domains/www2/public/uploads ?	23:27
David___	a list with all the 2 digit folders	23:28
David___	is there anyway for me to import packages of data from the old to the new webgui?	23:30
@Haarg	asset data yes	23:30
David___	i have tried that but when the file is bigger than 60 meg. it fails	23:31
@Haarg	http://gist.github.com/141659 try this script	23:31
David___	same parameters?	23:34
@Haarg	yes	23:34
David___	not able to work with /data/domains/www2/public/uploads/00/64/00646e0feb54aa98d4862c618ac9fcac	23:35
@Haarg	are you sure you are using 7.4.40?	23:35
@Haarg	or did you mean you upgraded after moving it to linux?	23:36
David___	ok.. sorry for the dumb question.. should i be running this on the old server before moving the public folder?	23:36
@Haarg	you'd need to move it to the linux server first	23:36
@Haarg	but you'd want to run the script before doing any upgrades etc	23:37
David___	ok. what i did was i copy the public folder and the sql file to the new webgui	23:37
David___	and i m running the script on the new box	23:37
@Haarg	that should work fine	23:38
David___	that's where i get the erros	23:38
@Haarg	when you first ran the script, did you see lots of warnings about uninitialized variables?	23:39
@Haarg	or only a few	23:39
David___	only a few	23:39
David___	it did the mv to a lot of them	23:39
@Haarg	because those paths should only exist if you were running a newer version	23:39
@Haarg	http://haarg.org/fixUploadsCase.pl i've fixed the script to avoid those paths it can't deal with	23:39
@Haarg	the next thing would be after running the script, look at some specific cases of it not working properly	23:41
David___	ok the script run without anything happen	23:43
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David___	i am going to check the specific cases	23:43
@Haarg	that should be because it already fixed what it could on the first run	23:43
David___	the images are there.. but no luck on finding them	23:47
David___	i get a couple of errors on modproxy and webgui	23:47
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@Haarg	well, take an example image that is missing and try to find it on the filesystem	23:47
@Haarg	and compare the urls	23:48
David___	well paths are the same, and the files are there. but asset manager can't find it	23:54
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--- Day changed Tue Jul 07 2009
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David___	does anybody know how to import files bigger than 100 mb ?	00:12
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+perlDreamer	oooohhhh	00:25
+perlDreamer	YUI 3.0.0 beta 1 released	00:25
SDuensin	I'd be a lot more excited about YUI if someone had a decent layout tool for it.	00:29
+perlDreamer	maybe you could swap rizen a nifty YUI layout tool in exchange for a webdav implementation?	00:38
SDuensin	Dude, I've been mulling a VisualBasic-for-WebGUI type thing over in my head for some time now.	00:40
@preaction	there is a YUI Grid Layout tool on the web, it might be able to be ported to WebGUI	00:41
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CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r11470 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_AdSku.pm AssetAspect_RssFeed.pm): Update from translation server	00:53
+perlDreamer1	they should have been using WebGUI: http://lwn.net/Articles/340130/	00:59
+perlmonkey2	holy crap, it is already 5? where did my day go?	01:01
+perlDreamer1	daydreaming about windmills, wire welders and electric cars?	01:01
+perlmonkey2	no, working hard	01:03
+perlmonkey2	makes time pass too fast	01:03
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sbaur	Hi Everyone!	01:16
sbaur	Are the nightly builds that used to be available at http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds/ still available somewhere?	01:16
@preaction	http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/	01:16
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sbaur	thanks preaction, i'll submit a bug for the bad link on the source installs page	01:17
+perlDreamer	'bout time that impostor got out of here	01:17
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@Haarg	sbaur, what do you use the nightlies for? we were having a discussion the other day about them and were having trouble coming up with a solid use case for them.	01:18
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sbaur	usually just to do a quick visual diff on a specific file on a specific version to see if we might be running a modified file that never made it into our version control.	01:21
sbaur	it's a lot faster than grabbing the tar.gz, untarring it and then checking the file	01:22
* perlmonkey2 is moments away from having working encryption of database tables/fields in webgui. fueled by granola bars and keystone light, this unholy concoction of openssl and webgui is about to come to life.		01:25
@Haarg	could looking at the file in the vcs do the same for you sbaur?	01:27
sbaur	haarg: if there's a tag or something that will get me to a specific version	01:28
sbaur	today i was looking at 7.5.40 stuff	01:28
+perlDreamer	sbaur, tags in SVN are like directories	01:28
sbaur	that would work then	01:28
@Haarg	i still don't have all of the tags done in git, though that is planned	01:28
+perlDreamer	https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/releases/WebGUI_7.5.40-stable/	01:28
+perlDreamer	you can use SVN::Web to browse to it, then download the copy that you want	01:29
+perlDreamer	or just remove the svnweb stuff to grab the file you want with svn cat (I think)	01:29
@Haarg	it's not that we are looking to get rid of nightlies, just trying to understand if there's something we could be doing better with the version control stuff	01:29
+perlDreamer	svn cat https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/releases/WebGUI_7.5.40-stable	01:30
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11471 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt www/extras/wobject/Thingy/thingy.js): Refix rendering problem with add/edit field dialog in Thingy.	01:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11472 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt www/extras/wobject/Thingy/thingy.js): Backport Thingy add/edit field dialog fix for height.	01:38
sbaur	Haarg: basically, i use the nightly builds because I've figured out (and actually remember) how to get there the few times a month/quarter that I actually need to. I'm sure given time (and maybe a link on the webgui.org site somewhere) I could train myself again.	01:46
@Haarg	http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/tree/master is where our code will live in the future btw	01:48
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* perlmonkey2 sees encrypted data :D		02:31
+perlDreamer	how do you know its encrypted?	02:31
+perlmonkey2	I'm looking at it.	02:31
+perlmonkey2	it used to be json	02:31
+perlmonkey2	it is wrong	02:32
+perlmonkey2	I mean, it doesn't have the correct headers. But my workflow used an encryption provider to decrypt and then recrypt a field.	02:32
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+perlmonkey2	patspam: encrypted data doesn't appear to like it in text fields. looks like binary only :(	03:19
+perlmonkey2	just an fyi	03:19
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elnino	hey perlDreamer... just fyi.. http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/prevnext-macro-navigation-buttons - VERY COOL macro - but it seems to be putting out a warning for no reason, or perhaps it's a bug with 7.6	03:45
+perlDreamer	could be, what's the warning?	03:45
+perlDreamer	Hopefully not "Written by perlDreamer"	03:45
elnino	WARN - xxx.xxxs.com.conf - WebGUI::Asset::newByUrl[1822] - The URL * was requested, but does not exist in your asset tree.	03:46
elnino	opps. interesting. the warning WAS WebGUI::Asset::newByUrl[1822] - The URL b-snfoxj2n4doc01wjcqvq was requested, but does not exist in your asset tree.	03:46
elnino	what did I change?	03:46
elnino	oh. I'm using it on two sites. =)	03:47
* perlDreamer has dinner with the fam, bbiaw		03:51
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11473 /WebGUI/docs/ (changelog/7.x.x.txt upgrades/upgrade_7.7.1-7.7.2.pl): Make sure that all old RSS assets are cleaned up during the switch to the RSS AssetAspect.	05:23
+perlDreamer	daviddelikat1: ping	05:50
daviddelikat1	yo	05:50
daviddelikat1	Gnip	05:50
daviddelikat1	perlDreamer: sup?	05:51
+perlDreamer	Do you know how to tell HTML::TokeParser to not decode HTML entities?	05:52
daviddelikat1	I think I did once	05:52
daviddelikat1	:)	05:52
daviddelikat1	:P	05:52
+perlDreamer	that helps :)	05:52
daviddelikat1	have you browsed the docs?	05:53
daviddelikat1	I think it was easy to find	05:53
+perlDreamer	I've read TokeParser, PullParser, and HTML::Parser	05:53
+perlDreamer	it's related to this bug: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9935	05:53
daviddelikat1	... looking...	05:53
+perlDreamer	here's how the bug works	05:54
+perlDreamer	you type content into a post	05:54
+perlDreamer	the post gets processed and it makes a synopsis from the post content	05:54
+perlDreamer	the synopsis has HTML entities that get decoded	05:55
+perlDreamer	but when they saved to the db, it only inserts characters up to the first decoded entity	05:55
daviddelikat1	so splitTag is producing the final text when you rewally want it to still have the HTML encoded specials	05:55
+perlDreamer	well, I want splitTag to produce the final text with the entities left encoded.	05:56
+perlDreamer	I have tried $p->attr_encoded, and it didn't do anything useful	05:56
+perlDreamer	from what I've read, we have to build our own version of get_text, using get_token as a base	05:57
+perlDreamer	since it doesn't decode entities by default	05:58
elnino	hey perlDreamer...looks ike your busy. I didn't know if I should write a bug report on that macro that your wrote. it seems that newByUrl is spitting out unneeded warning.	05:58
+perlDreamer	elnino, does the macro generate warnings when the test for the macro is run?	05:59
elnino	I didn't try the test, because it created the naviation links great for my site. I just happend to cross the warnings.	05:59
elnino	let me see.	06:00
+perlDreamer	you're sure this is made by the macro?	06:00
elnino	yep, because it's the assetId I specified in the macro and it only appears when I hit that page.	06:00
elnino	...that use the macro	06:00
elnino	there are 6 pages that use it.	06:00
elnino	... interesting ly tho, I' only getting text links, no buttons like it says I'm supposed to get? I don't have js disabled.	06:02
elnino	butmaybe that's because I'm not using a template.	06:02
+perlDreamer	the problem with newByUrl is due to bad documentation	06:04
+perlDreamer	it says assetId, but in Oregonian, that means assetUrl	06:04
+perlDreamer	time to be Dr. Daddy, DDS	06:04
+perlDreamer	bbiaw	06:04
elnino	I tried to supply a url and it didn't like it at all. Do I need to prepand it with a slash? I didn't try that.	06:05
* elnino goes and tries		06:05
* elnino still confused because it does find the pages using the assetid.		06:05
elnino	url doesn't work with or without the slash	06:07
daviddelikat1	perlDreamer: I think we could do it by overriding the decode_entities operation... I can help more tomorrow, I'm just heading out for tonight. I'll be here bright and early tomorrow tho...	06:12
* perlDreamer won't be online until 9:00am or so		06:13
elnino	how do I run a test for the macro?	06:13
elnino	ok	06:13
+perlDreamer	env WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/someWebGUI.conf perl t/Macro/PrevNext.t	06:13
+perlDreamer	hm, elnino, the test is running clean for me on 7.7.14-pre	06:18
+perlDreamer	no warnings	06:19
+perlDreamer	and the test does check passing a URL into the macro	06:19
+perlDreamer	let me try the macro on a site and see what happens	06:19
* elnino is stuck trying to figure out vi's stupid "features"		06:19
* elnino sighs finally.		06:21
elnino	I apparantly don't have a test.pm	06:24
elnino	Can't locate WebGUI/Test.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /home/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/t/../lib /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/t/PrevNext.t line 5.	06:24
elnino	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/t/PrevNext.t line 5.	06:24
+perlDreamer	that's unfortunate	06:28
+perlDreamer	I've tried this on a dev site and it works like I'd expect it to.	06:28
+perlDreamer	what does your macro invocation look like?	06:28
elnino	oh there it is.	06:28
elnino	hold on. I just found test.pm	06:28
+perlDreamer	PrevNext.t really wants to be in /data/WebGUI/t/Macro	06:29
+perlDreamer	not lib/WebGUI/Macro	06:29
elnino	right.	06:29
elnino	ok. PrevNext.t is in /data/WebGUI/t/Macro.	06:31
elnino	I'm in /data/WebGUI/t	06:31
elnino	and I'm running env WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/www.landmarklandscapedesigns.com.conf perl Macro/PrevNext.t	06:32
elnino	and getting: Failed to require package 'WebGUI::Session'. Reason: 'Can't locate Class/InsideOut.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /home/data/WebGUI/t/Macro/../lib /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl . /home/data/WebGUI/lib) at /home/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 18.	06:32
elnino	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /home/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 18.	06:32
elnino	Compilation failed in require at /home/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session.pm line 18.	06:32
elnino	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /home/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session.pm line 18.	06:32
elnino	Compilation failed in require at (eval 11) line 1.	06:32
elnino	sorry...	06:32
elnino	I did setenvironment.. I'll do it again.	06:32
+perlDreamer	I finally gave up and put it in root's .bashrc file	06:32
elnino	the .t file?	06:33
+perlDreamer	setenvironment.pl	06:33
+perlDreamer	er, setenvironment.sh rather	06:34
+perlDreamer	that way I'm always working with the WRE's environment	06:34
elnino	oh good grief...	06:37
elnino	I think i need to go to bed. I can't think. I'll revisit this	06:37
elnino	later.	06:37
+perlDreamer	good night, elnino	06:38
elnino	no worrries, I have my links, I'm happy.	06:38
elnino	just a warning message that lingers.	06:38
elnino	good night.	06:38
elnino	ok. one last question tho.. where is Class/InsideOut.pm supposed to be?	06:39
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+perlDreamer	/data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Class/InsideOut.pm	06:43
elnino	ok. it's there.	06:43
elnino	now I'm going to sleep.	06:44
elnino	=)	06:44
+perlDreamer	l8r ;)	06:44
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+perlDreamer	greets, tavisto	06:48
@tavisto	howdy	06:48
@tavisto	anyone in here using google latitude?	06:48
@tavisto	just got an invite from a friend to try it.. love the fact it uses google maps but also wondering if this is just another step to allowing big brother to invade my privacy	06:49
+perlDreamer	I'm sure that rizen has other ways of keeping tabs on you, tavisto	06:50
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't sweat it	06:50
@tavisto	hah lol	06:50
@tavisto	yeah skype/IM work pretty good for that	06:50
* perlDreamer is going to call it a night, too		06:51
+perlDreamer	later, all	06:51
@tavisto	yeah I'm about ready to.. couple more minutes	06:51
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+bartjol	mmm, wondering whether I found a bug	14:32
CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r11474 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (5 files): Update from translation server	15:53
xdanger	is there anyone around who can share some knowledge about the mail queue and "cron"?	15:57
+bartjol	well, depends on what you want to know	16:00
+bartjol	haven't looked into that too much yet	16:00
xdanger	I have a client who wants "realtime" emails	16:00
+bartjol	ah	16:00
+bartjol	realtime as in less than a minute?	16:01
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xdanger	was just wondering at what interval is thet activity runed?	16:01
xdanger	s/thet/that/	16:01
+bartjol	well, that depends on the settings of your scheduler	16:01
xdanger	ah!	16:02
xdanger	thats what I was looking for =)	16:02
xdanger	wonder if it will break with a small value	16:02
+bartjol	well	16:03
+bartjol	that depends on how many mails are send probably	16:03
xdanger	I hope that it's enough for them that we run that once every minute	16:04
+bartjol	well, normally with the 5 minute interval I get messages within 2 or 3 minuytes	16:05
+bartjol	depends on what spectre has to do	16:05
+bartjol	you can try to tweak you spectre settings	16:05
xdanger	did that...	16:06
xdanger	But I think that there isn't an easy way to get it under one minute	16:06
+bartjol	well, experience will be the teacher	16:07
+bartjol	normally it won't be a problem	16:08
xdanger	It could be for this client... they are not easy =)	16:08
+bartjol	but if they have many users or send a lot of group e-mails it can	16:08
xdanger	why isn't sendmail run in realtime in some places?	16:08
xdanger	this is a dataform	16:09
xdanger	so max 1 email	16:09
+bartjol	well, as I said, maybe webgui does more stuff with it, like attaching footers and stuff	16:09
+bartjol	darn, I did not say that	16:10
+bartjol	changed my sentence, sorry	16:10
+bartjol	I think you can make a workflow that is run immediately	16:11
+bartjol	but I haven't done that myselfd	16:11
+bartjol	mmm, some of the new i18n doesn't make sense to me	16:25
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+bartjol	ey, perlmonkey2, anything to do with the story asset?	17:01
+perlmonkey2	bartjol Not me.	17:01
+bartjol	mmm	17:01
+perlmonkey2	thought that was all perldreamer	17:01
* bartjol is grinning evilish		17:01
+perlmonkey2	ah	17:02
+perlmonkey2	you worked on it?	17:02
+bartjol	the translation	17:02
+bartjol	and I don't understand some of it	17:02
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PCCC	good morning does anybody knows how to import files bigger than 100mb	17:07
@preaction	PCCC: don't use the web interface	17:08
PCCC	so what can i use?	17:09
+bartjol	well, copy it to your server	17:09
+bartjol	and use fileImport.pl	17:09
+bartjol	in /data/WebGUI/sbin	17:10
+bartjol	or wherever your WebGUI/sbin dir is	17:10
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PCCC	ok, i'll give it a go	17:11
+bartjol	read the help of that script	17:11
+bartjol	you need some partameters	17:11
PCCC	ok	17:11
+bartjol	preaction: may I ask you something	17:13
@preaction	bartjol: go ahead	17:13
+bartjol	I noticed that there is a publicProfile JSON entry in the wg_privacysettings	17:13
+bartjol	but I actually see only the field publicProfile being used	17:14
+bartjol	do I miss something	17:14
+bartjol	oh, sorry, that is in the userprofiling stuff	17:14
+bartjol	you need some context	17:14
+bartjol	I also always wine about that	17:15
@preaction	there's no reason to show the state of the publicProfile field to anybody except the user who can edit it	17:15
+bartjol	ah, that's only a state	17:15
@preaction	so the privacysetting isn't currently necessary	17:15
+bartjol	ok	17:15
+bartjol	well, useless to do extra work taking it out	17:16
+bartjol	mmm, I have a user that wants to be the default to set the profile public, but not the fields within	17:16
+bartjol	but I believe the default db setting is chosen	17:17
+bartjol	not that of the setting chosen in user profiling	17:17
+bartjol	so you cannot overrule that setting	17:17
+bartjol	except by altering the db tables settings	17:21
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CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r11475 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (8 files): Update from translation server	17:38
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+perlmonkey2	Anyone catch the crop circle hoopla that seemed to imply the not-quite-a-sunspot was going to launch 6 coronal mass ejections at us today? Over three days a crop circle got progressively more complicated until astronomers deciphered it to mean the sun was going to hit us hard.	17:41
+perlmonkey2	Except NASA says that blip on the sun doesn't qualify as a sunspot and "Knowing" was released on DVD today.	17:41
+bartjol	mmm, I think pygmee people ar responsible	17:42
+perlmonkey2	I think Summet Entertainment hired some clever marketeers.	17:42
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CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r11476 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset.pm Asset_Matrix.pm): Update from translation server	17:54
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+perlDreamer	Good morning, everybody	18:40
@preaction	morning!	18:43
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11477 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bad i18n copy/paste error in the Shortcut.	18:43
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11478 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Backport Shortcut i18n fix.	18:43
daviddelikat1	mornin pd	18:50
daviddelikat1	I looked at your html decoding problem	18:50
daviddelikat1	I think the easiest thing to do would be to re-encode the text	18:51
daviddelikat1	tho that is nt my favirite solution	18:51
daviddelikat1	i plodded through toe code for a while and found there is no simple way to turn off decoding	18:51
daviddelikat1	so you solution about writing a 'plugin' that duplicates the get_text code but without the decoding may be the best solution.	18:54
+perlDreamer	re-encoding won't work, because it would encode any real HTML markup inside the returned synopsis	18:56
+perlDreamer	so I agree, the best thing to do is to rebuild get_trimmed_text	18:56
+perlDreamer	although I am going to submit a 15 character patch back to the author to do it the right way	18:56
daviddelikat1	you can tell the re-encoder to do only certain bits...	18:56
+perlDreamer	HTML::TokeParser is a sub-class of HTML::Parser, which has an attr_encoded property which says: "Don't decode my text".	18:57
daviddelikat1	and avoid the '<>&'	18:57
+perlDreamer	davidelikat: How would it handle this: <p>I said <b>greater than</b>, you know ></p>	18:57
+perlDreamer	> would get decoded unconditionally	18:58
+perlDreamer	and needs to be reencoded	18:58
daviddelikat1	sure you always find problems with my suggestion ( boo hoo )	18:58
daviddelikat1	....	18:59
* perlDreamer has written too many tests not to think corner cases		18:59
daviddelikat1	i did not see the 'do not decode text' thing in the code	18:59
daviddelikat1	so I think you will have to re-write it.	18:59
daviddelikat1	unless the do-no-decode is inside teh HTML::encoder class.	18:59
+perlDreamer	no, it's inside HTML::Parser	19:00
daviddelikat1	are you looking at the current version or the version used in WG?	19:00
+perlDreamer	both	19:01
+perlDreamer	perldoc HTML::Parser, look for attr_encoded	19:02
+perlDreamer	and then wonder why HTML::TokeParser won't obey it	19:02
daviddelikat1	perhaps the code is not following the documentation?	19:03
daviddelikat1	brb	19:03
daviddelikat1	there was a dumpster truck doing its thing across the street and it sounded like my kids were running around upstairs ...	19:04
daviddelikat1	but nobodys home	19:04
daviddelikat1	...	19:05
daviddelikat1	so when I looked at the code there was only one thing that would skip entity decoding	19:05
daviddelikat1	and that was if gat_token returned a glag indicating the token is data	19:06
daviddelikat1	s/glag/flag/	19:06
+perlDreamer	right. I think it should also include a check for $self->attr_encoded	19:07
+perlDreamer	so \|\| $self->attr_encoded is 15-20 characters	19:07
+perlDreamer	very small patch	19:07
+perlDreamer	but WAY useful	19:07
daviddelikat1	sounds good to me	19:07
daviddelikat1	I think there are two places to apply it though	19:08
@preaction	okay, so i'm testing the Collaboration RSS feed items, and the attachments are absolute URLs (not full URLs). is this a bug?	19:16
daviddelikat1	perlDreamer: the spot I was looking at is here: /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.0/i686-linux/HTML/TokeParser.pm line 89 and 128	19:17
+perlDreamer	preaction: what's the difference between full and absolute?	19:18
@preaction	http://domain.com <- a full URL has that	19:18
@preaction	an absolute URL starts with /path/to/file.jpg	19:18
+perlDreamer	daviddelikat, I agree, get_phrase would be good, too, but I wasn't thinking beyond the immediate problem.	19:19
+perlDreamer	Good catch	19:19
+perlDreamer	preaction, do they work?	19:19
@preaction	they work, technically, but you, the site author, have to add your domain to the end of them	19:19
@preaction	er.. to the beginning rather	19:20
@preaction	also, we don't quite support attachments in RSS right now (at least, not according to any RSS/Atom spec)	19:20
@preaction	so i believe this is just backwards-compat for those using the RSS "feed" as a straight-up XML feed to power weird things	19:20
+perlDreamer	preaction: that sounds more like a bug	19:21
+perlDreamer	XML::FeedPP is supposed to do the right thing for attachments	19:21
+perlDreamer	if you post it, I'll look at it later	19:22
@preaction	i don't want to touch it, that's the problem, i just want to test it	19:22
+perlDreamer	or I'll assign it to someone with more experience in web standards	19:22
@preaction	so i'm going to test it as-is and we'll fix it later	19:22
+perlDreamer	no	19:22
+perlDreamer	why write a test to verify a bug?	19:23
@preaction	as i mentioned, it might be working properly.	19:23
@preaction	i want to wait until a beta release, then fix every stupidity of the CS that we can identify	19:23
+perlDreamer	but this reaches beyond the CS	19:24
+perlDreamer	it also affects StoryManager and SC assets	19:24
@preaction	no, this is in the getRssFeedItems in the CS, it's not part of the Aspect	19:24
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beernutz	How do you get webui running under 64bit ubuntu? The wiki does not have much on that one, and i understand it SHOULD work from the binary install, but i cant seem to get mod_perl to start. Can someone point me in the right direction please?	19:35
+perlDreamer	beernutz, you need to talk with mech422 if he comes into the room	19:38
+perlDreamer	he's our resident 64-bit expoert	19:38
beernutz	k, thank you so much	19:38
+perlDreamer	however, if you search the forums on webgui.org, in the etc and developer sections, it may give you some help	19:38
+perlDreamer	short answer, prepare for pain	19:39
beernutz	ya, that is what i have been seeing	19:39
beernutz	trying to seeif i can get a 32bit slice to simplify	19:40
+perlDreamer	one of the design goals for WRE 1.0 is to get it working under 64-bit	19:40
+perlDreamer	I hear they are very close	19:40
PCCC	does anybody know how to upload a webgui package over 100mg	19:52
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+perlDreamer	PCCC, check the wiki and the forums on webgui.org. That's a frequently found issue.	20:00
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* perlDreamer runs off		20:02
topsub	can webgui do invoicing yet?	20:34
@preaction	what do you mean by invoicing?	20:35
topsub	sorry got distracted	20:39
topsub	say you have clients as users, you want to send them abill bascially	20:39
topsub	is this something we could get working in webgui	20:39
topsub	using the Shop?	20:40
topsub	only thing i could think of is having them manually type in the amount owed but i was trying to advoid that	20:40
@preaction	provided the product is part of the Shop, yes	20:43
topsub	Can you setup a product so the user can enter in the price?	20:54
+perlmonkey2	I want to shop at topsub's store.	21:08
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@preaction	you can create a product that would allow that, yes	21:28
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+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: ping	22:14
+perlmonkey2	actually anyone who cares. Can anyone think why the Crypt::None shouldn't be a singleton. Would there ever be a reason when you would want multiple encryption providers which were just passthroughs?	22:15
+perlmonkey2	multiple no encryption providers I mean.	22:17
@Haarg	seems a little odd to have one provider be a singleton and others not, if that is what you are describing	22:19
@Haarg	but if it doesn't make any difference to the external api it shouldn't matter much	22:19
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: the None provider is kind of the default for a field that was once encrypted but is no longer encrypted. I don't know why there would ever be multiple ones, but it sure would be easier for me to code if I left it as a defined provider and not a singleton.	22:21
+perlmonkey2	But None provider fields don't have a header so I need a way to identify them as different in the workflow as it loops on fields who don't match "CRYPT:$providerId:" that don't match the current provider id. As you can see, a None will loop forever as it will never have that header of "CRYPT:$providerId"	22:23
+perlmonkey2	I'll just have the workflow check provider types and use a different query for None.	22:23
@preaction	but why? the workflow shouldn't care what the provider does	22:26
+perlmonkey2	preaction: the workflow is the way new providers are switched to.	22:33
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: pong	22:33
+perlmonkey2	in the admin panel say you switch to Simple, None, then Simple.	22:33
+perlmonkey2	it doesn't happen instantly, but the next time the workflow runs.	22:33
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: was just going to ask you about what's in the scroll.	22:33
+perlDreamer	I'll backlog	22:33
+perlmonkey2	preaction: sorry that didn't make much sense.	22:34
+perlmonkey2	the workflow only cares what's in the target field. But for None the target field should not have a header and for all others it should. The workflow needs to know if it should process those fields and the only way to do it is to check for the proper header or lack thereof. So None needs a special case in the workflow.	22:35
+perlmonkey2	woohoo, can switch from providers all day long, interrupting the workflow, whatever and it works.	22:43
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: 1!@aslkjasf(D:SKD009 !@#al;ljsdfalsd(&(kjk;kj:):):)@!3kj;lkj9suoi\|{}\|	22:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11479 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.7.6-7.7.7.pl:	22:55
CIA-46	WebGUI: Duplicate the old RSS asset fix right before the upgrade sub that causes problems,	22:55
CIA-46	WebGUI: to catch users who have upgraded past the original stopping point.	22:55
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+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: Is that "I <3 U" encrypted?	22:58
+perlDreamer	it's either that, or the result of cat paws on the keyboard	22:59
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+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: You cat must be drunk to tab complete my name then write gibberish on the screen. Tell him gentlemen wait until 6.	23:10
+perlDreamer	it's 6 off the east coast	23:10
@Haarg	perlDreamer, did you end up posting those uploads scripts anywhere?	23:11
@Haarg	fixing/converting scripts	23:11
+perlDreamer	they're on the bazaar	23:11
@Haarg	link?	23:11
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/convert-from-base64-to-hexad-decimal-storage-locations	23:12
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/correct-case-of-webgui-uploads	23:12
@Haarg	http://haarg.org/fixUploadsCase.pl i updated this slightly	23:12
@Haarg	also, the other was written for my own use to convert webgui's paths, so it uses 'git mv'	23:13
@Haarg	also some other questionable things i have in there like the triple map+glob, but it works so w/e	23:15
+perlDreamer	hm	23:16
+perlDreamer	I'll reupload fixUploadsCase now	23:16
+perlDreamer	and have a look to the other soon	23:16
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* perlDreamer feels the need to quote Bill Cosby		23:25
+perlDreamer	"It's the brain damage!"	23:25
topsub	my store, enter in your own price for LCD tvs..	23:26
topsub	haha.. silly clients	23:26
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--- Day changed Wed Jul 08 2009
+perlDreamer	Haarg, should we be able to write UTF-8 into the synopsis in the db?	00:01
@Haarg	yes	00:01
@Haarg	all text fields should be utf8	00:01
@Haarg	text/char	00:02
+perlDreamer	So, if I had a string that looked like this:	00:02
+perlDreamer	Brandhei?e Neuigkeiten rund um's Klettern f?r euch aus der Region	00:02
+perlDreamer	and in the db all that showed up was "Brandhei"	00:03
+perlDreamer	what does that mean?	00:03
@Haarg	what kind of asset?	00:03
+perlDreamer	Post	00:03
@Haarg	does the content get saved properly?	00:03
+perlDreamer	yes	00:03
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9935	00:04
+perlDreamer	Enter post data into the RTE	00:04
@Haarg	what if you explicitly give that as the synopsis?	00:04
+perlDreamer	I haven't tried that yet	00:04
+perlDreamer	So, enter post content	00:04
+perlDreamer	it pulls a synopsis from the content	00:04
+perlDreamer	but while doing that	00:04
+perlDreamer	it decodes all HTML entities	00:04
+perlDreamer	the db write stops at the first decoded German entity	00:05
@Haarg	decoded or encoded?	00:05
+perlDreamer	decoded (from &eumlaut;)	00:05
@Haarg	it sounds like rte is encoding the characters which it shouldn't really need to	00:05
+perlDreamer	not seeing any options to make it not encode	00:06
@Haarg	where is the decoding happenning?	00:06
+perlDreamer	HTML::TokeParser	00:07
SDuensin	Is anyone else considering heavy drinking today?	00:07
+perlDreamer	I have a fix that changes that	00:07
+perlDreamer	but then I started thinking about why the db would care about the content	00:07
@Haarg	it shouldn't matter and should be fine for tokeparser to decode it	00:07
@Haarg	so the return value from tokeparser is cut off like that?	00:08
+perlDreamer	no	00:08
@Haarg	or our code is doing it afterward?	00:08
+perlDreamer	it's fine all the way up to update	00:08
+perlDreamer	I haven't checked it farther than that	00:08
+perlDreamer	it's fine all the way inside ->update	00:13
+perlDreamer	where it reports as:	00:13
+perlDreamer	'synopsis' => 'Brandhei<DF>e Neuigkeiten rund um\'s Klettern f<FC>r euch aus der Region',	00:13
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+perlDreamer	the <DF> and <FC> are 8-bit characters?	00:13
@Haarg	yeah	00:14
@Haarg	i'm not sure that is correct	00:14
@Haarg	utf-8 doesn't use 8-bit characters	00:15
@Haarg	how are you dumping that?	00:17
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+perlDreamer	$session->log->warn(Dumper \%setPairs)	00:18
+perlDreamer	and looking at it 3 ways	00:18
+perlDreamer	vim, less and tail	00:19
@Haarg	i'd make sure whatever you dump for testing of that use $Useqq and $Useperl	00:19
+perlDreamer	I'll redo it	00:20
@Haarg	alternatively, change the db debug log use ->ascii on the json encoder	00:21
+perlDreamer	"synopsis" => "Brandhei\337e Neuigkeiten rund um's Klettern f\374r euch aus der Region"	00:21
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+perlDreamer	which I think is the same in hex as before, just using octal?	00:23
+perlDreamer	the entity decode table is hardcoded inside HTML::Entities	00:23
@Haarg	it seems like that should all work	00:27
+perlDreamer	the only thing I could think of that column being different from all the others	00:28
@Haarg	it's text	00:28
+perlDreamer	If I go to a regular asset and enter in the string into the Summary (synopsis) in the edit form, it saves fine	00:33
@Haarg	what does your debug output look like for that?	00:34
+perlDreamer	"synopsis" => "Brandhei\x{df}e Neuigkeiten rund um's Klettern f\x{fc}r euch aus der Region",	00:35
@Haarg	http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/chr.html	00:37
@Haarg	so they are internally not encoded as utf-8	00:37
@Haarg	which is where the problem comes from	00:37
@Haarg	DBD::mysql is probably doing something dumb in its utf8 encoding stuff	00:38
+perlDreamer	I think I can make a small test case. Is it worth reporting?	00:38
@Haarg	Encode.pm handles it properly from what i can see	00:39
@Haarg	probably	00:39
+perlDreamer	cool, I'll work on that while doing the release	00:40
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@Haarg	http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=25590	00:40
@Haarg	might be the same problem	00:40
+perlDreamer	it looks like the same signature	00:41
+perlDreamer	stopped at the first decoded character	00:41
+perlDreamer	he even provided a patch	00:41
@Haarg	as for a workaround, we may need to wrap HTML::Entities::decode_entities	00:43
@Haarg	to always convert to utf-8	00:43
+perlDreamer	monkey patch?	00:43
+perlDreamer	brb	00:44
@Haarg	i was more thinking just a wrapper	00:44
+perlDreamer	HTML::Entities::decode_entities is called internally by other modules, though	00:44
@Haarg	yeah	00:45
@Haarg	i'm not sure the best way to go about it	00:45
+perlDreamer	for now, I reimplemented TokeParsers get_text_trimmed inside splitTag	00:46
+perlDreamer	this is just ugly	00:46
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@Haarg	couldn't you just utf-8 encode the result from it?	00:46
@Haarg	instead of re-implementing it?	00:46
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@Haarg	utf8::upgrade $_ for values TML::Entities::entity2char;	00:54
@Haarg	if we wanted to go the monkeypatch route	00:54
@Haarg	lost a %H in there	00:54
+perlDreamer	or at least the output of $tokenParser->get_trimmed_text;	00:54
+perlDreamer	that seems to work	00:59
@Haarg	it seems like HTML::Entities should be returning utf8 strings normally. i wonder if that is a change that would be accepted.	01:03
@Haarg	well, i guess it is returning utf8 strings, just not UTF-8 strings :/	01:03
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+perlDreamer	right	01:16
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11480 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs):	01:35
CIA-46	WebGUI: Work around bugs in HTML::Entities, which doesn't output strict utf8, and	01:35
CIA-46	WebGUI: DBD::mysql, which doesn't encode high characters correctly. This shows up	01:35
CIA-46	WebGUI: in the Post synopsis, HTML::splitTag and Post->getSynopsisAndContent.	01:35
+perlDreamer	I'm going to have a hard problem with 50 character git commit comments	01:35
+perlmonkey2	waaaa, git limits comments to 50char?	01:36
@Haarg	no	01:37
@Haarg	although it does encourage a 50 character limit on the first line of the comment	01:37
@Haarg	to treat it along the lines of an email subject	01:37
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11481 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Backporting Post synopsis fix.	02:04
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11482 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm: Backport utility method that's being used in backported tests.	02:04
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11483 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/ (gotcha.txt upgrades/upgrade_7.6.29-7.6.30.pl): Removing CSRF token from session table and upgrade gotchas.	02:38
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+perlDreamer	roll roll roll the release	06:08
+perlDreamer	gently down the tubes	06:08
+perlmonkey2	patspam: ping	06:08
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11484 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/create.sql: Preparing for 7.6.30 release	06:13
SDuensin	:-)	06:14
SDuensin	Ok, well, I bought the shop guide. Even read some of it. Now I'm pretty sure I'm screwed.	06:14
* SDuensin sighs		06:14
+perlmonkey2	SDuensin: what's wrong?	06:15
SDuensin	I need a subscription SKU that changes the amount it costs dynamically each month...	06:15
+perlmonkey2	workflow	06:15
+perlmonkey2	can't you write something to run the logic for you on each month?	06:16
SDuensin	From what I understand, iTransact just keeps running whatever was first posted to them and just notifies WG if it worked or not.	06:16
+perlmonkey2	ah	06:16
SDuensin	Getting the amount data into WG isn't a problem. It's charging the user for it.	06:16
+perlmonkey2	right I see that	06:16
+perlmonkey2	you can either bill a reoccurring fixed charge, or a single fixed charge, but you need their credit card to bill reoccurring dynamic charges.	06:17
SDuensin	Yep. I was afraid of that. Welcome to PCI Hell.	06:18
+perlmonkey2	I'd put money on their not being an easy way around this. iTransact probably doesn't want to allow users to write blank checks.	06:18
+perlmonkey2	cheesy non-solution, charge them the max and refund what they don't use.	06:19
SDuensin	hehehe	06:19
+perlmonkey2	Looks like you are about to go into the monthly billing business :(	06:20
SDuensin	Oh yea, it'll be a hoot.	06:20
SDuensin	Ok, I got two more (easier) questions while you're here...	06:21
SDuensin	Is the POS Terminal in WebGUI yet? If so, I'm blind and can't find it.	06:21
SDuensin	And do you know how PB runs both the PB and WG sites from the same instance?	06:21
@preaction	SDuensin: the POS stuff is just allowing a "Cashier" to make a purchase using another user's information	06:21
+perlDreamer	It's in 7	06:21
+perlDreamer	7.7	06:22
+perlmonkey2	No idea, I havne't spent much time working on [head]	06:22
@preaction	PB and WG are now seperate again	06:22
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, it's Rewrite magic	06:22
SDuensin	preaction - Oh yea? Bad mojo living together?	06:22
+perlDreamer	big big big database	06:22
@preaction	no, just too big	06:22
@preaction	we may need to distribute them in the future, so we did this	06:22
SDuensin	I'm looking to combine three of my sites so all my company pages share a single user database.	06:23
@preaction	but, we also made SSO between the two, so hopefully we'll be able to put that into WebGUI someday	06:23
@preaction	SSO and profile sync	06:23
+perlmonkey2	preaction: any chance of that code going public?	06:23
SDuensin	SSO/Sync sounds fun.	06:24
SDuensin	Still, one user database, one online store. It'd make my life easier. Right now I have three.	06:24
+perlmonkey2	and I mean, public before it is released with WG	06:24
@preaction	perlmonkey2: i e-mailed JT, he wrote it. I'll let you know what he says	06:24
+perlmonkey2	preaction: thanks	06:25
SDuensin	Was the mod_rewrite stunt documented anywhere?	06:27
+perlDreamer	I think it's in the wiki	06:29
SDuensin	OK, I'll check it again. Didn't find much before, but I was kind of in a rush.	06:30
SDuensin	Nothing with "rewrite" or "mod_rewrite".	06:30
* SDuensin is liking the wiki less and less these days. :-(		06:30
@preaction	yeah, it needs some work to make it easier to organize	06:31
@preaction	that's my second order of business come August	06:31
SDuensin	Even a "List Every Damn Thing Here" button would help.	06:31
+perlDreamer	how about a "put everything in 1 place button so you can search for it"	06:33
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, you have to check _all_ the wikis	06:33
+perlDreamer	they are all separate now	06:33
SDuensin	Yea, I know it's all separate. Sucks!	06:34
SDuensin	Thanks for the reminder though. Found it.	06:35
@preaction	is it in the Admin one?	06:36
SDuensin	yea	06:36
@preaction	link me? i can't find it either	06:37
@preaction	search sucks	06:37
@preaction	so i want to fix the keywords on that article to make it easier to find	06:37
SDuensin	http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/multi-site-setup-7.5	06:39
SDuensin	I just searched for "rewrite".	06:39
@preaction	ah, the title sucks too	06:39
@preaction	there, fixed the title and added some more keywords	06:41
+perlDreamer	not one, or two, but three assets!	06:42
+perlDreamer	nuts!	06:42
SDuensin	:-)	06:42
SDuensin	The new WG site looks nice, but finding things on it got a lot more difficult.	06:43
+perlDreamer	I think I need to channel Billie Mays for my WUC talk	06:43
@preaction	SDuensin: if the wiki had two features, it would be much better: Subscribe (email notifications), and keyword relationships (for organizing the unorganizable)	06:44
@preaction	subscribe would increase the quality by allowing people to become editors and vet content	06:44
@preaction	the keyword relationships would build a table of contents, as well as other things	06:45
+perlDreamer	wouldn't keyword relationships just be an extension of search	06:45
+perlDreamer	since it's already keyword based?	06:45
+perlDreamer	also, it sounds like we need to build a subscription assetAspect	06:46
@preaction	not really. you'd set up the links from keyword to keyword. "A" is a parent of "B", then you know that A > B	06:46
@preaction	i have one almost built, just needs some bugfixing and tweaking	06:46
@preaction	it's been sitting bitrotting for about 6 months now	06:46
+perlDreamer	and POD and tests?	06:46
@preaction	it's Test-driven	06:47
+perlDreamer	awesome	06:47
+perlDreamer	am I being maintenance-nazi enough?	06:47
@preaction	once we move to git, i can fork and have a nicer place to get collaboration on my half-baked ideas	06:47
@preaction	we're not backing out untested changes yet, and we haven't set up Selenium or Continual Integration	06:48
@preaction	on that note, a couple people (and me) are building a CI project in Perl	06:48
@preaction	once August rolls around, i might be leading the development on it	06:48
@preaction	http://wiki.github.com/konobi/Cradle	06:49
+perlDreamer	CI?	06:50
+perlDreamer	ah, ci	06:50
+perlDreamer	gotcha	06:50
+perlDreamer	are you going to hook something buildbot like into Smolder?	06:50
@preaction	Cradle will be very buildbot-like, probably yes	06:51
@preaction	and it will have Smolder bindings, but won't be reliant on Smolder	06:51
@preaction	reports can go anywhere (like smolder), or you can make your own report generator	06:52
@preaction	every step is going to be pluggable, Update source, Build, Test, Report	06:52
@preaction	so as one kind of Report, I can keep track of test coverage by module, and notify someone if it goes down	06:52
@preaction	as another type, I can do the same for failing tests	06:52
@preaction	and as a final type, i can shuffle a report off to Smolder	06:53
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11485 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.30-stable: Release 7.6.30-stable	07:00
@preaction	perlDreamer: if you have any ideas on what the CI system that WebGUI uses should do, let me know	07:02
@preaction	i'm thinking it should check Coverage, check test pass/fail, handle nightly builds, keep track of the last 25 or so commit builds (more if the commit had a test failure)	07:03
SDuensin	WTH? I just added a user to a group and it says they will expire on 6/19/1941.	07:04
@preaction	but now i need sleep. days keep getting busier and busier	07:04
@preaction	uh... heh, BIGINT rollover perhaps?	07:04
SDuensin	Beats me.	07:04
* preaction sleeps		07:04
SDuensin	Ok, this is too good to not share: http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=10651525	07:06
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+perlDreamer	SDuensin, I kind of get that guy.	07:26
+perlDreamer	What good is there in spending 100's of thousands of dollars on property if you don't get to decide what to do with it	07:26
+perlDreamer	maybe he's an environmentalist, and objects to the use of gasoline mowers?	07:27
SDuensin	Buy a goat, not a shotgun.	07:28
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11486 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.6.31 development	07:31
+perlDreamer	goats produce methany gas. Very non-carbon neutral.	07:31
SDuensin	hehe	07:33
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11487 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (3 files in 2 dirs):	07:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: Update the object cache on editSave and autoCommit, so that it doesn't lie about	07:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: its version lock status.	07:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11488 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 2 dirs):	07:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: Forward port fix for updating property cache on editSave with autoCommit	07:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: so that the asset does not lie about its autocommit status.	07:53
+perlDreamer	boy, that colin guy was busy today	07:53
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topsub	haha /golf clap	08:07
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11489 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Force an init of the fields form in the ThingyRecord when the Edit form is loaded.	08:17
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* perlDreamer crashes out		08:33
+perlDreamer	more hackery tomorrow	08:33
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11490 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: Remove debug code.	08:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11491 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	08:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: Change the default ThingyRecord template to show a thank you message,	08:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: View Cart link, and continue shopping link.	08:38
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elnino	Hi!! are changes to the admin settings logged? so I can see if anyone changed any of the settings?	17:36
@preaction	no	17:38
elnino	dang	17:38
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+bartjol	danny_mk: hi I'm installing the modules for your AuthOpenId app	17:51
+bartjol	but the LWPx::ParanoidAgent faisl on it's tests	17:51
+bartjol	did you encounter that problem	17:52
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+danny_mk	hmmm	17:53
+danny_mk	what test does it fail?	17:54
+danny_mk	which test?	17:54
+danny_mk	barjol: which test?	17:54
+bartjol	ah	17:54
+bartjol	wait, I put it in pastebin	17:55
+bartjol	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m29ecfcae	17:55
+bartjol	so the first, but it sems to need another moudule	17:57
elnino	Other than collaboration systems, what else might have it's own settings for "committing versions"?	17:57
+danny_mk	hmmm... try upgrading: LWP::Debug	17:58
+danny_mk	perl -MCPAN -e 'install LWP::Debug'	17:58
+bartjol	well, we don't use cpan	17:58
+bartjol	but I'll install it	17:58
+danny_mk	OK	17:58
+danny_mk	let me know how it goes	17:58
+bartjol	which perl did you use?	18:00
+bartjol	I see a deprecated:	18:00
+bartjol	http://search.cpan.org/search?mode=module&query=LWP::Debug	18:00
+bartjol	and we're on 5.10	18:01
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+danny_mk	bartjol: hmmm... the latest version of LWPx::ParanoidAgent still uses LWP::Debug::debug http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/BRADFITZ/LWPx-ParanoidAgent-1.05/lib/LWPx/ParanoidAgent.pm	18:04
+bartjol	well, that is strange	18:04
+bartjol	off course I can try to install	18:05
+bartjol	but I'm doubting whether that will be stable	18:05
+MrHairgrease	Bart, it won't work w/o LWP::Debug	18:05
+MrHairgrease	You'll have to install that as well	18:05
+bartjol	well, ok	18:05
+MrHairgrease	and then install the paranoiduseragent	18:06
+bartjol	sure	18:06
+danny_mk	you can comment those out in the LWPx::ParanoidAgent module, it is only used twice in the subroutine: sub _need_proxy	18:06
+danny_mk	of course this is a maintenance nightmare because you will have to keep track of your changes	18:06
+MrHairgrease	it's used in way more places	18:07
+MrHairgrease	oh, but all are in send_request	18:07
+danny_mk	what?	18:07
+MrHairgrease	LWP::Debug::trace	18:07
+danny_mk	AH! the entire module was deprecated. Yup, you are right	18:09
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11492 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix i18n typos in the StoryArchive.	18:53
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daviddelikat	fire bug is a bit unreliable about displaying errors...	19:10
@tavisto	daviddelikat, preaction just posted a staff blog entry about this. He switched to Safari 4 because of the problems with it	19:11
daviddelikat	I'll have to take a look at safari...	19:12
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+perlDreamer	morning folks	19:37
+perlDreamer	any buzz about Google OS?	19:37
+perlDreamer	sounds like a good, small platform to distribute with our favorite CMS appliance	19:37
daviddelikat	whats it based on?	19:38
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+perlDreamer	LInux	19:42
+perlDreamer	see linkage on slashdot and linux weekly news	19:42
+perlDreamer	congrats on the PBWG, steveo_aa	19:42
+perlDreamer	oh, and daviddelikat, Haarg wisely advised me to use Encode to fix the HTML::TokeParser entity problem.	19:47
+perlDreamer	1-line fix instead of copy and paste code from inside HTML::TokeParser	19:48
daviddelikat	oh the great and wise haarg!!	19:48
@Haarg	actually, didn't you use utf8::upgrade?	19:49
+perlDreamer	yes, I did.	19:49
daviddelikat	my question about google OS is can I install it on my palm computer?	19:50
+perlDreamer	oh, I don't know	19:50
daviddelikat	then I want to be able to run a local httpd so I can serve up a few apps for myself...	19:51
+perlDreamer	http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html	19:51
+perlDreamer	iirc, targeted for intel and arm processors	19:51
+perlDreamer	I'm sure it will be crossported quickly	19:51
daviddelikat	I wonder how well it will run on a 386?	19:53
+perlmonkey2	daviddelikat: Android can run iJetty	20:03
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daviddelikat	sorry what are we talking about?	20:03
+perlmonkey2	running webservers on your handhelds	20:04
daviddelikat	how good is iJetty?	20:04
+perlmonkey2	never used it	20:04
daviddelikat	I need perl running too... :)	20:04
+perlmonkey2	roll your own handheld with a gumstix ;)	20:05
daviddelikat	I think I'll just strap a dual P4 on my back and use the palm for interface...	20:05
* daviddelikat google gumstix		20:05
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+perlDreamer	it'll keep you warm, daviddelikat	20:08
daviddelikat	the batteries'll keep me fit too....	20:09
daviddelikat	ok so how do I get debug info in safari...	20:10
daviddelikat	I have the web inspector running	20:10
daviddelikat	b ut it is empty...	20:10
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@preaction	daviddelikat: open the develop menu and click "Start Debugging Javascript"	20:20
daviddelikat	thats much easier than what I did...	20:21
daviddelikat	well a little easier ... I right clicked and inspected an element...	20:21
daviddelikat	got me going anyway...	20:22
daviddelikat	thanks for the tip.	20:22
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+perlDreamer	daviddelikat, seems like the Helpdesk is doing funny things to usernames with underscores	21:49
+perlDreamer	like removing them	21:49
* perlDreamer is running out of battery. Time to head home. bbiaw after lunchtime		21:54
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+perlmonkey2	Question about when to inform a user that a encryption provider can be edited in the configuration file, since webgui can't edit them directly.	22:54
+perlmonkey2	Here's the problem. Say you have a column encrypted with 'X'. You change this to 'Y'. But it doesn't actually get changed until the next time the workflow completes successfully.	22:55
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@Haarg	how does the configuration of the encryption providers work?	22:56
+perlmonkey2	So should the admin page check every single row in every possible encrypted field to build a list of all current used providers to tell the user which ones can be altered?	22:56
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: it must be done by hand in the config file. The admin is more for checked status/turning on global encryption, and see which fields are currently encrypted and with what.	22:57
+perlmonkey2	It was set to add/delete/edit providers, but having webgui edit the config file was frowned upon :P	22:57
+perlmonkey2	I'm just wondering if I should be absolutely 100% positive that it is okay to edit a provider's configuration. Which could require a lengthy db query.	22:58
@Haarg	what alteration would the admin be doing?	22:58
+perlmonkey2	nothing. Just letting hte user know which providers it is okay to alter in the config.	22:58
+perlmonkey2	oh, it turns on/off global encryptoin.	22:58
+perlmonkey2	and has a shortcut to start the workflow.	22:59
+perlmonkey2	I guess I could just put a warning saying here is the last time the workflow has completed. If no changes has been made to field encryptions, then the config file can be edited.	23:00
@Haarg	is there a reason the configuration for this can't be stored in the database?	23:00
@Haarg	aside from encryption keys	23:00
+perlmonkey2	security, I guess.	23:00
@Haarg	what i mean is, i understand that you can't have encryption keys in the db as that invalidates the whole point of this	23:01
+perlmonkey2	but really, a provider shouldn't really be altered. It should be deleted or added, but it woudl be really dangerous to alter it.	23:01
@Haarg	but it seems like any other configuration (which i don't know what there is) would be done in the db	23:02
+perlmonkey2	but any editing of the config besides the key's/encryptoin method, is pretty cosemetic and doesn't matter.	23:02
+perlmonkey2	yeah, I see what you're saying.	23:02
+perlmonkey2	and perhaps that could be stored in the db and edited from the admin. Just not sure what the point is. As far as I can see, providers should be added, used, retired, then eventually deleted. But never edited. But I'm not running the show on this one.	23:03
@Haarg	well, i don't know all the information you are storing about them, but what you are saying seems mostly correct	23:04
@Haarg	you just want to have some kind of feedback to the admin of what providers are being used	23:04
+perlmonkey2	only three types of providers so far. none, which does nothing but return data, Simple which uses CBC, and then HSM which uses a url.	23:05
+perlmonkey2	So basically we have a 'name', 'provider' type, and then Simple needs a 'key' and HSM needs a 'url'.	23:06
+perlmonkey2	okay, yeah, this admin page should be more of just a report on what the score is. And warn them not to manually edit providers unless they are positive the workflow has completed since the last table changed its provider setting.	23:07
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@steveo_aa	I hadn't noticed that I was this month's PGWG poser boy.	23:44
@steveo_aa	PBWG	23:44
@preaction	yessir!	23:45
@steveo_aa	(poser wasn't a typo, chuckle)	23:45
+perlDreamer	it's a promotion?	23:45
@steveo_aa	My life is going backwards from being a company owner to a support dev.	23:46
@steveo_aa	But I voluntarily gave up the owner life. Way too many stresses.	23:46
@steveo_aa	I'll have to let you know later if being the July PBWG is anything more than marketing.	23:48
@steveo_aa	But it is good to be recognized, even as a commercial.	23:49
@steveo_aa	Speaking of "commercial" I was once on a nationally televised commercial back in 1994.	23:49
@steveo_aa	I didn't have a speaking role, but Barbara and I, and Dee Dee our dachshund were filmed and inserted into a promotional Discover card commercial. We won a contest we didn't know we had entered. We even got actor's guild residuals for the showings.	23:51
@preaction	ha, nice	23:52
@steveo_aa	The rules are you can do that once without having to pay guild dues, but any more than that and you owe them some money.	23:52
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@steveo_aa	The contest was a pretty big deal. 1 in 6 million to be drawn, and the money was sufficient for us to put some money down on building the house we now live in.	23:53
@steveo_aa	Someday I should digitize the commercial and post it online.	23:56
@steveo_aa	15 years later and we still have Dee Dee the devil dog.	23:56
@steveo_aa	Her face has gone white, and she doesn't hear very well anymore, but she's still healthy and strong.	23:57
--- Day changed Thu Jul 09 2009
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+perlmonkey2	If I need to run a workflow, is there an API for activating it, or just instantiate it and execute?	00:09
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SquOnk	Hi everyone.	00:09
@Haarg	pretty much just instantiate and ->run	00:10
+perlDreamer	Is is WebGUI::Error->caught, or Exception::Class->caught?	00:12
@Haarg	the first will catch any of our exceptions, the second anything using E::C	00:12
@Haarg	so probably the former	00:13
SquOnk	I'm looking for suggestions. Picture this:	00:13
SquOnk	We have a set of assets that should go on the right column.	00:13
SquOnk	For pages /a/b/* it should be one set, but for pages /a/c/* it should be a different set...	00:14
SquOnk	...and for /a/c/e/* it should be a different set...	00:14
SquOnk	...we current have them manually placed in each page, but were wondering if there was some sort of wildcard way of doing that	00:15
@preaction	i would suggest different style templates probably	00:15
SquOnk	preaction: That's what I thought.	00:15
@preaction	the other way would be a navigation	00:15
SquOnk	preaction: My partner here had a wicked idea, though.	00:15
@preaction	but there would be some weirdness	00:15
@Haarg	a nav set to show siblings may work	00:15
SquOnk	How about a macro having a sort of "overloading" feature.	00:16
+perlDreamer	wait a sec	00:17
+perlDreamer	is it WebGUI::Exception, or WebGUI::Error?	00:17
+perlDreamer	the package is WebGUI::Exception	00:17
+perlDreamer	but it throws things in WebGUI::Error	00:17
@preaction	perlDreamer: it's WebGUI::Error	00:17
SquOnk	You create assets with URL /a/b/c and /a/b/c/d...	00:17
@Haarg	the only place you use 'WebGUI::Exception' is to load the .pm	00:18
SquOnk	...then you use ^OverloadMacro('%/c') which would select /a/b/c for /a/c and every other page below that one, except /a/b/c/d that has a more specific associated asset.	00:19
SquOnk	He just wants to write a macro :)	00:19
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, sounds like the RelativeUrl macro in the Bazaar	00:19
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Ah, will check. Thanks	00:19
+perlDreamer	or is it RootUrl....	00:19
+perlDreamer	one of those	00:20
+perlDreamer	So I have this exception that is being thrown, but not being caught by WebGUI::Error	00:20
+perlDreamer	it is caught by an eval, and the right error message from the exception shows up in $@	00:20
@Haarg	how is it thrown?	00:21
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Error::Shop::RemoteShippingRate->throw(error => 'Problem with UPS Online Tools XML: '. $xmlData->{Response}->{Error}->{ErrorDescription});	00:22
@Haarg	WebGUI::Exception::Shop has problems	00:26
@Haarg	its exceptions don't inherit from WebGUI::Error	00:26
@Haarg	http://gist.github.com/143203	00:27
+perlDreamer	thanks, Haarg	00:34
+perlDreamer	must be time to write some tests for Exception::Shop.pm	00:34
+perlDreamer	rather, past time...	00:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11493 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Exception/Shop.pm): Shop exception classes were not subclasses of WebGUI::Error.	00:42
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+perlDreamer	it's be nice if there was some kind of introspection that could be done to automatically test any exceptions added, but this oughta do for now.	00:54
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11494 /WebGUI/t/ (Exception Exception/Shop.t): Add tests to make sure that Shop exceptions are WebGUI::Errors.	00:56
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+perlmonkey2	So you have to have a workflow activity in a workflow before you can run it?	01:04
@Haarg	yes	01:04
elnino	Other than collaboration systems, what else might have it's own settings for how it commits changes/postings/versions?	01:06
@Haarg	wiki	01:06
elnino	ok. Cool. Thanks.	01:07
@Haarg	gallery as well	01:07
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elnino	ok. Thanks haarg	01:09
+perlDreamer	story manager	01:10
+perlDreamer	thingy...?	01:11
@Haarg	no	01:11
@Haarg	matrix	01:12
@Haarg	the ems might, i don't remember	01:12
elnino	helpdesk?	01:13
* elnino looks at dbschema		01:13
elnino	story archive has a approvalWorkflowId?	01:13
+perlDreamer	of course	01:13
+perlDreamer	who knows what kind on unscrupulous people might submit stories...	01:14
@Haarg	helpdesk would as well, but it isn't core	01:14
elnino	hmm. calendar too?	01:15
+perlDreamer	yes	01:16
+perlDreamer	sounds like we need a wiki page...	01:16
elnino	dataform? Map? (what's that?)	01:16
+perlDreamer	what's Map?	01:16
elnino	Yeah, I was planning on writing on on this.	01:16
elnino	there's a table called Map	01:17
@Haarg	i think map may	01:17
+perlDreamer	DataForm, yes	01:17
elnino	my customer said that his site "never worked this way before." he was using CS, and I showed him how to use shop and the two had different committing settings.	01:18
elnino	then it dawned on me...	01:18
+perlDreamer	Map has an autocommit for adding points	01:18
+perlDreamer	each point is an asset	01:18
+perlDreamer	Map is WebGUI + Google Maps	01:18
+perlmonkey2	Why does Thingy create a workflow instance of this class? className=>"WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Thingy"	01:19
elnino	so what wiki should this be under? user?	01:20
+perlmonkey2	would be nice if the next developers guide shows an example of creating a workflow instance.	01:20
+perlDreamer	elnino: developer, I think	01:21
elnino	really?	01:21
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2, you can check t/Workflow/Activity/*.t	01:21
+perlDreamer	or check out Operation/User.pm	01:22
+perlDreamer	elnino, I guess it depends on the audience. If you think users would want to know this, then it definitely should go into the users wiki	01:22
elnino	hmm. it appears that any wikis on version tags are under admin.	01:22
+perlmonkey2	thanks perlDreamer	01:22
elnino	I find splitting up the wiki is confusing.	01:23
+perlDreamer	i think there's a bug filed for that, elnino. Your comments about it would be very helpful in getting the issue fixed.	01:23
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2, I think className is the type of object it wants to get	01:23
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: that doesn't make sense to me in the context of workflows. Wouldn't a workflow already know what class of activities it will run?	01:24
+perlDreamer	yes, but it doesn't care about the type of objects they receive	01:25
+perlDreamer	aside from shoving the right ones into them, I think	01:25
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11495 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Backport exception tests and subclassing fixes.	01:25
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11496 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Exception/Shop.pm: Add POD for Exception/Shop.	01:25
+perlmonkey2	so I should be able to leave that blank since my workflow activity doesn't need an object/?class passed in.	01:25
+perlDreamer	which line in Thingy are we talking about?	01:26
+perlmonkey2	triggerWorkflow	01:28
+perlDreamer	ah, I see	01:28
+perlDreamer	yeah, className is the type of object that it want to receive	01:28
+perlmonkey2	and method?	01:28
+perlDreamer	methodName is how to build one	01:29
+perlmonkey2	how to build one what?	01:29
+perlDreamer	a className	01:29
+perlDreamer	className => what I want, methodName => how to build one, parameters => how to customize it	01:29
+perlDreamer	perldoc Workflow::Instance.pm	01:30
+perlmonkey2	no idea why an activity would need that, but I'm sure some do.	01:30
+perlDreamer	well, if you want to work on a particular user, you'd need to know which userId to fetch with methodName from className	01:31
+perlmonkey2	not sure why the documenation for classname and method name are for set instead of create. maybe create calls set.	01:32
+perlmonkey2	either way, I didn't find t.	01:32
@Haarg	the workflow system needs to be able to construct the object to hand to the activities. the workflow system itself doesn't know anything about the objects it is creating so you have to tell it.	01:32
@Haarg	in your case, you don	01:33
@Haarg	't have an object so it is simpler	01:33
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@tavisto	what's up party peeeeeeeeeeople?	01:45
+perlmonkey2	tavisto: despairing	01:46
@tavisto	nooooooo	01:47
@tavisto	why is everyone in a bad mood today? It's been a good day for me and WebGUI leads	01:47
+perlmonkey2	bah, Instance tries to instantiate an object and pass it to the Activity? I'm not even passing anything in.	01:48
@Haarg	it doesn't have to	01:48
+perlmonkey2	tavisto: spends hours digging through code trying to figure something out, make zero progress, and realize how bad you suck.	01:48
@tavisto	I have 2 trivia questions... 1st one to answer them both correctly gets a handclap and a smiley from tavisto.	01:48
@Haarg	don't give it that information and it won't try to use an object	01:49
@Haarg	look at Operation::Workflow::www_runWorkflow	01:49
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: I'm only passing in the workflowId to Instance-create.	01:49
@tavisto	#1 - Can you rename Karma easily? (like just by modifying templates)	01:49
+perlmonkey2	ah, must have been trying to rerun a previously failed workflow.	01:50
+perlmonkey2	just worked :D:D:D:D:D:D	01:50
@tavisto	#2 - Is it possible to embed a poll asset into a message board post? I don't think ^AssetProxy(); works.	01:50
@Haarg	karma is probably pulled from i18n, so renaming it wouldn't be simple in all cases	01:50
@Haarg	collab posts usually filter out macros, but you can change that	01:51
@Haarg	it would be dangerous if untrusted people were allowed to post to it though	01:51
@Haarg	also, when you voted it would take you to the original poll asset	01:51
@tavisto	oh yeah.. that's right	01:51
daviddelikat	anybody want to peek at the new tabbed help desk tickets? http://delikat.homeip.net:8080/	01:53
@Haarg	looks like a good start	01:55
@Haarg	would it be possible to have close buttons on the tabs themselves?	01:55
@Haarg	also might be good to have immediate feedback - open the tab right away with a throbber in it or something	01:55
daviddelikat	I tried to put the close thin in the tab, but it does not work because YUI grabs the mouse click before it gets to my link	01:56
daviddelikat	I can see about opening the tab earlier	01:57
@Haarg	hmm	01:57
daviddelikat	are there any examples you can point out	01:57
@Haarg	might be able to change the order of the events	01:57
@Haarg	i guess you don't get control over capturing/bubbling using yui's event stuff since it wouldn't work in ie	01:58
@Haarg	http://blog.davglass.com/files/yui/tab3/	02:00
elnino	ok. http://www.webgui.org/use/community-wiki/version-tags-overview - here's my start thanks haarg, perldreamer!	02:06
+perlDreamer	elnino, you are simply awesome	02:06
elnino	you didn't read it. lol	02:06
+perlDreamer	If we had 3 people who made as many bug postings, wiki pages and RFEs as you did, WebGUI would be better off	02:06
+perlDreamer	now, how do we get you to do core contributions?	02:06
elnino	send my kids to college.	02:07
+perlDreamer	hm, can I do that with WebGUI karma?	02:07
elnino	maybe?	02:07
elnino	lol, well, I try to contribute as I can. you guys have an awesome product!	02:08
elnino	I'm going to make supper and go to sleep, signing off....	02:08
elnino	bye.	02:08
+perlDreamer	later :)	02:08
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* perlDreamer heads off to go shopping, then make dinner, then		02:34
+perlDreamer	oh dear lord, I'm domesticated!	02:34
+perlDreamer	ahhhhhhhhhhhhh	02:34
daviddelikat	you finally noticed?	02:37
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daviddelikat	theres the close box... needs some style work, and I'm still debugging the 'close function, but it should work fine...	03:02
daviddelikat	http://delikat.homeip.net:8080/	03:02
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@Haarg	nice	03:08
daviddelikat	do you have an example of the other thing... displaying the 'throbber'?	03:09
@Haarg	nope	03:09
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@preaction	very nice! i might actually enjoy using this version of the helpdesk	03:13
SDuensin	Hey daviddelikat - one thing bothers me about that help desk...	03:20
SDuensin	I don't have it! :-)	03:20
daviddelikat	it doesn't work yet either	03:20
SDuensin	Well, that's a minor problem. :-D	03:20
daviddelikat	it should be out by EOW...	03:20
SDuensin	Oh yea? Excellent!	03:21
daviddelikat	now the tab close/reopen works fine	03:34
daviddelikat	needs optimizing though...	03:35
SDuensin	I just need a help desk / bug board.	03:36
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daviddelikat	well, this one is not officialy released, but it is the one they use on webgui.org	03:39
SDuensin	Thought it looked familiar. :-)	03:39
daviddelikat	you can get it from git	03:39
daviddelikat	you might ask around if anybody cares if you use it...	03:39
SDuensin	Does it still download files instead of displaying search results in Safari?	03:39
daviddelikat	but i expect they would welcome another beta sire	03:39
daviddelikat	site	03:40
daviddelikat	i dont know	03:40
daviddelikat	im trying to remember where that bug occurs, i can test it...	03:40
SDuensin	I think it happens any time you search.	03:40
@Haarg	try clicking the button instead of pressing enter	03:41
SDuensin	I'll remember that.	03:41
@Haarg	i looked at the code at one point and it wasn't obvious why it wasn't working, but it's because it isn't trapping the submit event properly. clicking the button should work though.	03:42
daviddelikat	it is still a problem exactly as you've described it...	03:43
daviddelikat	it is also on my list...	03:43
SDuensin	Ok, was just curious.	03:43
SDuensin	Gotta run for a bit. :-)	03:43
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+perlDreamer	daviddelikat++	03:59
daviddelikat	wait till you see my next trick	04:00
+perlDreamer	oh!	04:00
+perlDreamer	Did you see the thing I posted about names with underscores?	04:00
daviddelikat	um no	04:00
daviddelikat	is it bad?	04:01
+perlDreamer	yeah	04:01
+perlDreamer	not 100% bad	04:01
+perlDreamer	but like 80% bad	04:01
+perlDreamer	because you can't tell which user the bug got assigned to	04:01
daviddelikat	can you give ma ahint of a link or something?	04:01
+perlDreamer	yup	04:01
+perlDreamer	this bug: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/10617	04:01
+perlDreamer	I assigned it to Mike_S	04:02
+perlDreamer	but that's not what the bug says	04:02
daviddelikat	sorry thats like greek to me	04:03
daviddelikat	what is a .cdn file?	04:03
+perlDreamer	don't worry about the bug, look at who it is assigned to ;)	04:03
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: you're set -> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/hCDhyvZ6hqg/US-Offering-45M-For-Huge-Wind-Energy-Test-Bed	04:03
+perlDreamer	but you're going to need a bigger welder	04:03
daviddelikat	whos mikes?	04:04
daviddelikat	is that the problem?	04:04
+perlDreamer	that's the thing	04:04
daviddelikat	the name?	04:04
+perlDreamer	I assigned to Mike_S	04:04
daviddelikat	I get it...	04:04
+perlDreamer	can you fix it, doctor?	04:04
+perlDreamer	or do we need to take it out behind the woodshed, along with old Shem?	04:04
daviddelikat	I'll take a look after I submit the current project...	04:05
daviddelikat	I was working on something related to user ids a little while ago...	04:05
daviddelikat	its all very curious what kind of odd stuff WG does with bits of data...	04:05
+perlDreamer	yes	04:06
+perlDreamer	now, I have a general question for the room	04:06
+perlDreamer	In the CS, it makes a Post template variable for seeing the user's profile	04:06
+perlDreamer	$var{"userProfile.url"} = $self->getUrl("op=viewProfile;uid=".$self->get("ownerUserId"))	04:07
+perlDreamer	but viewProfile is deprecated, and there's an API for getting the link to a user's profile	04:07
+perlDreamer	using the API, however, means making 1 user object for every post in the list	04:07
+perlDreamer	do I go the correct route which could be slower, or the fast route, which may not be right?	04:08
@Haarg	perlDreamer, i'm pretty sure the problem happened when you assigned the user	04:09
@Haarg	i just assigned the bug to Mike_S	04:09
+perlDreamer	there was no Mike_S in the list that search gave me	04:09
carogray	hi late night workers	04:09
+perlDreamer	but I'll believe you that the problem was PEBKAC	04:10
@Haarg	well, if the user wasn't in the list that may be a separate problem	04:10
@Haarg	but mikes is a different user from Mike_S	04:10
+perlDreamer	thanks for fixing that, Haarg	04:11
daviddelikat	my turn...	04:11
daviddelikat	Haarg:	04:11
daviddelikat	what is it about WGdev commands that forces them to exit after the run?	04:11
@Haarg	you are looking at writing your own?	04:12
daviddelikat	no I'm improvising a shell...	04:12
@Haarg	ah	04:12
daviddelikat	tired of waiting for long loads	04:12
+perlDreamer	wgdev REPL?	04:12
daviddelikat	I was going for wgsh	04:13
@Haarg	that behavior should probably change - basically when it started i had some commands that would exit	04:13
@Haarg	so i made them all exit to be consistant	04:14
daviddelikat	but even if I put the code in a eval it still exits all the way out	04:14
@Haarg	more specifically, they would exec	04:14
@Haarg	it calls exit directly	04:14
daviddelikat	the exec would be the issue	04:14
@Haarg	so the behavior should probably change so they never exit	04:15
@Haarg	and the case i wanted exit for will just have to use system instead	04:15
daviddelikat	which case is that?	04:15
@Haarg	wgd db	04:15
carogray	any idea why we get the message,	04:16
carogray	"The page you have requested does not exist.	04:16
carogray	What would you like to do?	04:16
carogray	Add the missing page.	04:16
carogray	Back to site."	04:16
carogray	After we change a URL and save?	04:16
daviddelikat	probably because the browser is still looking at the old url	04:17
+perlDreamer	look for errors in the logs?	04:17
@Haarg	the change url function or the edit screen?	04:17
@Haarg	it's not a bid deal really, i just figured i would let the os reclaim the memory wgdev was using - it's would be more sane to have it stay running	04:17
@Haarg	*it'd be more	04:18
carogray	Haarg:change URL	04:18
carogray	we were merrily fixing URL's today and then all of a sudden could no longer do it	04:18
@Haarg	asset manager or from content?	04:19
carogray	mm.	04:19
carogray	both	04:19
@Haarg	and is the url changing actually failing or is it just reporting that error afterward?	04:19
carogray	url changing seems to be actually failing...	04:19
@Haarg	it sounds like a bug either way, so that should be reported	04:19
carogray	then can no longer edit asset from either manager or content	04:20
carogray	big bug	04:20
@Haarg	yeah, that's not good	04:20
carogray	would there be a reason it was working and then just stopped?	04:20
+perlDreamer	it's actually a feature	04:20
+perlDreamer	changing URLs breaks links to pages :)	04:21
* perlDreamer will try anything to prevent new bugs from being posted		04:21
carogray	more please oh	04:21
carogray	here's me getting more an dmore puzzled	04:21
+perlDreamer	Haarg is right, it needs to be posted.	04:21
carogray	ok...	04:22
+perlDreamer	Please check the log files for errors, and be very detailed with what needs to be done to duplicate the error.	04:22
carogray	log files are ...? can I do that? hosted on PB?	04:22
+perlDreamer	what kind of server do you have, carorgray?	04:23
+perlDreamer	virtual host?	04:23
+perlDreamer	shell access?	04:24
carogray	not virtual host...	04:24
carogray	I think we did some shell access a couple of years ago...something to do with sudo or something?	04:24
@Haarg	daviddelikat, if you wanted to work around the exit thing until i get to fixing it, you might look at t/03_WGDev-Command.t	04:25
daviddelikat	thanks	04:25
@Haarg	it has code to trap exits	04:25
@Haarg	the BEGIN right at the top and sub capture_exit	04:26
daviddelikat	thats kinda cool	04:26
@Haarg	using that strategy, the BEGIN defining CORE::GLOBAL::exit needs to be before anything using exit is compiled	04:28
@Haarg	http://github.com/haarg/wgdev/issues#issue/3	04:30
daviddelikat	here it is wgsh beta 0.0.0.0 http://webgui.pastebin.com/d43f60a48	04:31
daviddelikat	so far it works OK	04:31
daviddelikat	i have not tested all functions...	04:31
@preaction	okay, if the next thing is to be able to pipe output from one command into another, you are all buying me new pants	04:33
daviddelikat	ls, edit, package seem to work; thats what I was hoping for	04:33
daviddelikat	db does not work	04:34
@preaction	also, perhaps a way to call system commands as part of a \|-chain?	04:35
daviddelikat	start a rfe list	04:36
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11497 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm): Remove use of the deprecated viewProfile url param to get a user's profile.	04:37
@Haarg	you should either fork wgdev and put this up in that or i can give you commit access and you can work on it in a branch	04:38
@Haarg	github's issue tracker would work well for an rfe list	04:38
daviddelikat	I'm not likely to do much more than I have...	04:39
@Haarg	well, i'd be interested in improving it at some point	04:39
daviddelikat	its really cool but does not generate revenue...	04:39
@preaction	wish i had the cash to fund development	04:40
@preaction	but my own time is cheaper than other people's time ;)	04:40
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CIA-46	wgdev: Patrick Donelan master * r16373e0 / lib/WGDev/Command/Package.pm :	04:43
CIA-46	wgdev: Fixed bug with Package --output-dir option	04:43
CIA-46	wgdev: Renamed option to --to since hypenated options are not supported. - http://bit.ly/IqzCq	04:43
CIA-46	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r0342277 / (8 files in 4 dirs): add tidy command and tidy test and other files - http://bit.ly/BRP3s	04:43
CIA-46	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r6cb8162 / MANIFEST.SKIP : soem updates and cleanups to MANIFEST.SKIP - http://bit.ly/QzCSQ	04:43
@Haarg	soem	04:44
@Haarg	me speel gud	04:44
Aspire_Team	How do I get avatars to display in a User List? <tmpl_var user_profile_avatar_value> just gives me the asset id	04:46
@Haarg	it's not actually an asset id, but a storage id	04:48
@Haarg	you should be able to use the StorageUrl macro	04:48
@Haarg	^StorageUrl(<tmpl_var user_profile_avatar_value>);	04:49
Aspire_Team	Great, I'll try it out.	04:51
Aspire_Team	Now the URL shows up instead, i assume I need to wrap it in something so it WebGUI treats it as an image?	04:52
Aspire_Team	I guess that is just html	04:52
@Haarg	yeah	04:52
@preaction	right	04:52
Aspire_Team	Thanks.	04:53
@Haarg	you can also send a second parameter to that macro	04:53
@Haarg	if it is 'thumb' it will return the url to the thumbnail instead	04:53
Aspire_Team	i.e. ^StorageUrl(<tmpl_var user_profile_avatar_value>,thumb); or ^StorageUrl(<tmpl_var user_profile_avatar_thumb>);	04:58
@Haarg	the former	05:00
Aspire_Team	Works like a charm! Thanks Haarg!	05:08
Aspire_Team	dhelsten here --- logged in on another computer... thanks guys keep up the good work!	05:09
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+perlmonkey2	George Washington killed his sensai and he never said why.	06:17
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+perlDreamer	is a sensai like a sensei, but american?	06:25
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: damn google and it not seeing that as misspelled.	06:28
+perlDreamer	maybe I'm wrong	06:29
+perlDreamer	you know us oregonians	06:29
+perlDreamer	we're very stubborn, pushy and opinionated	06:29
+perlmonkey2	So you're French?	06:30
* perlmonkey2 oh snaps		06:30
+perlmonkey2	I need a hobby project for WebGUI. Something to do on my own for fun	06:31
+perlmonkey2	I've been toying with S3 integration, but that would cut into PB's profit model, and I dont' want to do that.	06:31
+perlDreamer	how does test writing strike you? :)	06:31
+perlmonkey2	Like digging ditches :P	06:32
+perlmonkey2	maybe I could find some beauty in it. I'm under-experienced in test writing.	06:32
+perlDreamer	it'll change the way you write code	06:32
+perlDreamer	It's like in the Matrix, when Cipher is talking to Neo	06:32
+perlmonkey2	and add 20% to my total time per task.	06:32
+perlDreamer	actually, no	06:32
+perlmonkey2	your link said it added 20%.	06:33
+perlDreamer	right, but it also said there was reduced maintenance	06:33
+perlDreamer	so it takes you 20% more upfront, billable time	06:33
+perlDreamer	but saves you face later in fixing bugs at cost	06:33
+perlmonkey2	In my case it wouldn't really add to billable time, since I only bill for what it should have taken me, not what it took me :P	06:34
+perlDreamer	gotcha ;)	06:34
+perlmonkey2	anyways, what did you have in mind with the test writing, or were you speaking of generalities?	06:35
+perlDreamer	it would just be great to have someone else helping to write tests	06:41
+perlDreamer	right now I'm at the point where I can point to specific tasks that need to be done	06:41
+perlDreamer	like	06:41
+perlDreamer	write tests to bring User.pm coverage back up to 100%	06:41
+perlDreamer	Look into integrating WebGUI::PseudoRequest with Test::Apache2	06:42
+perlmonkey2	well I've got some admin addons to add to 3 wobjects, then tests to write for Crypt, then I can work on some tests for you.	06:42
+perlDreamer	figure out a way to autostart a server for WWW::Mech tests	06:42
+perlmonkey2	mech?	06:43
+perlmonkey2	why use mech? how is that different from the api calls?	06:43
+perlDreamer	mech is good for integration testing	06:43
+perlDreamer	most of the API calls are all unit tests	06:43
+perlDreamer	so we know that each gear and cog works	06:44
+perlDreamer	but the machine is still untested	06:44
+perlDreamer	also, somethings can only be done from the UI, like authentication	06:44
+perlmonkey2	mech used to be my favorite plaything	06:44
+perlmonkey2	for years	06:44
+perlDreamer	I'd love for the server autostart thing to be written	06:44
+perlDreamer	we'll need it for WWW::Mech, and for Selenium	06:44
+perlmonkey2	back when I was at the university I'd keep 5 servers handling 1MB/s each for days using Mech and Heritrix.	06:46
+perlmonkey2	autostart? I dont get it? Test is ran as root and runs teh wre startup?	06:47
+perlDreamer	right, we need a config file, database setup from scratch, then start apache and spectre, and then set an environment variable so that all downstream tests know that the server is up and ready for testing	06:49
+perlDreamer	it's really just chaining WRE calls together	06:49
+perlDreamer	addsite.pl	06:50
+perlDreamer	wreservice	06:50
+perlDreamer	etc	06:50
+perlDreamer	hm, more like two environment variables	06:50
+perlDreamer	WEBGUI_CONFIG and WEBGUI_LIVE	06:50
+perlDreamer	well, there's also the DNS setup, since any site will need to be able to be resolved by IP	06:52
+perlDreamer	so maybe the hostname needs to be passed into addsite, so that it gets created with a good website name	06:52
+perlDreamer	something like shawshank.localdomain	06:52
+perlmonkey2	127.0.01 or bust	07:05
+perlmonkey2	anyways, catch you on the flip side.	07:06
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+patspam	perlDreamer: howdy	07:29
+perlDreamer	hey, patspam!	07:29
+patspam	I'm back from the dead =)	07:29
+perlDreamer	dead?	07:30
+perlDreamer	you been sick?	07:30
+patspam	nah, just been too busy at $work to hang out on #webgui	07:30
+perlDreamer	that happens.	07:30
+perlDreamer	between fathering and work I haven't had time to work on smaller projects	07:31
+perlDreamer	it takes me 12 hours to get 8 hours of billable work done	07:31
+patspam	yeah that really sucks, I feel the same thing even without kids in the mix	07:31
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SynQ	ola	10:03
SynQ	com esta	10:03
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Celestar	lol. ok the topic redirects me to the wiki, and the getting started of the wiki redirects me to the IRC channel :P	12:52
Celestar	is there any easy way to import an existing page, especially the CSS into webGUI?	12:55
Celestar	and could anyone point me to some docs how to do so?	12:55
+BartJol	Celestar: ah	13:05
+BartJol	like you have a html page	13:05
+BartJol	and want to import that?	13:05
+BartJol	well, that can't be done automatically	13:06
+BartJol	afiad	13:06
+BartJol	s/d/k/	13:06
+BartJol	I would put the css in a snippet and link to that in the template	13:07
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Celestar	hail	15:59
Celestar	I have an existing website which I would like to import into webGUI somehow. can anyone point me to do resources?	16:04
+BartJol	ah, you missed my notes Celestar	16:13
+BartJol	?	16:13
Celestar	yeah	16:16
Celestar	I had connection problems :(	16:16
Celestar	or rather a reboot problem while irssi was running in screen :P	16:16
+BartJol	ah	16:17
+BartJol	ok	16:17
+BartJol	BartJol: Celestar: ah	16:17
+BartJol	BartJol: like you have a html page	16:17
+BartJol	BartJol: and want to import that?	16:17
+BartJol	BartJol: well, that can't be done automatically afiak	16:17
+BartJol	BartJol: I would put the css in a snippet and link to that in the template	16:17
Celestar	k	16:18
+BartJol	not really bringing you forward yet, but I ned to know where you start	16:18
Celestar	I will give it a try	16:18
Celestar	I managed to somehow paste some stuff in the wrong place by accident and rendered the admin interface unusable :P	16:18
+BartJol	because of the rendering, some divs will automatically be generated	16:18
+BartJol	cool	16:18
+BartJol	but inconvenient	16:19
+BartJol	what kinda source do you have know?	16:21
+BartJol	now	16:21
Celestar	plain static html	16:22
Celestar	with a single css	16:22
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Celestar	will try in an hour or so	16:27
+BartJol	good luck	16:36
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+perlmonkey2	what's new today?	18:08
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+perlDreamer	BartJol, you bug posting fiend!	18:10
+BartJol	I know	18:11
+BartJol	I'll raise our karma	18:11
+BartJol	well, I'll be translating some more in the future, which is good for the # of bugs that are posted and resolved :)	18:12
+perlDreamer	it turns out that the Post also suffered from the viewProfile bug	18:12
+BartJol	I saw	18:12
+perlDreamer	indeed :)	18:12
+BartJol	perlDreamer: and I i18'd my holiday notice for you again	18:14
+perlDreamer	you are so kind	18:15
+perlDreamer	where are you sailing this time?	18:15
+BartJol	Friesland	18:15
+BartJol	http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=friesland&sll=37.579413,-95.712891&sspn=42.109235,112.851562&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=9&iwloc=A	18:15
SynQ	that is a bit north	18:16
SynQ	this is more likely: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=friesland&sll=37.579413,-95.712891&sspn=42.109235,112.851562&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=9&iwloc=A	18:16
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+BartJol	well, close enough	18:17
+perlDreamer	seems shorter than the last trip	18:17
+BartJol	yeah	18:17
SynQ	actually this is the best place: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=cafe+de+watersport+woudsend&sll=52.944837,5.63118&sspn=0.028187,0.040126&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A	18:18
SynQ	that is where I whish I was	18:18
+BartJol	:)	18:18
+BartJol	sitting on the shore, see other people fumble at the bridge	18:18
+perlDreamer	ah, the good ol' days	18:19
+BartJol	yes, the beste schippers staan aan wal	18:19
SynQ	in this case: the beste schippers stay at home	18:20
+perlDreamer	I thought the best shippers came from The Netherlands, drank beer and used WebGUI	18:24
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+cap10morgan	perlDreamer: want to do some bug squashing today?	18:36
+perlDreamer	yes!	18:36
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SynQ	let's go home	18:50
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+cap10morgan	perlDreamer: ok, getting you an instance setup now	18:57
+cap10morgan	this was an issue upgrading from 7.7.11 -> 7.7.12 right?	18:57
+cap10morgan	(asks the guy who reported the bug)	18:57
+cap10morgan	ah, nope	18:58
+cap10morgan	7.7.10 -> 7.7.11	18:58
+cap10morgan	ok, so setting you up w/ a 7.7.10 instance of that site	18:58
+perlDreamer	at the very least, we should check to see that the package was imported by WebGUI before calling methods on it so that it would die more gently.	19:00
+perlDreamer	Haarg, if we can't import a package during upgrade, should that be a hard error with stopping the upgrade, or just a warning?	19:01
@Haarg	what would lead to a package failing to import?	19:02
+perlDreamer	well, right now possible a bug with Storage.pm	19:02
@Haarg	aside from a serious problem of some kind	19:02
+perlDreamer	but ->import is not guaranteed to always work?	19:02
@Haarg	as far as i know it isn't supposed to fail	19:03
+perlDreamer	and anything we ship should be tested at least twice before it gets to a customer site	19:03
+cap10morgan	perlDreamer: where was that asset test you mentioned the other day?	19:07
+cap10morgan	would be interesting to run that on this site's DB	19:07
+cap10morgan	since it's in such bad shape	19:07
+perlDreamer	t/Asset/Asset_diagnose.t	19:07
@Haarg	the only case of a package import failure that is handled 'gracefully' is if the package file itself is corrupt	19:07
+cap10morgan	oh yeah, thanks	19:07
@Haarg	and that should never happen for an upgrade	19:08
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan, remember, though. That test does not give 100% database coverage	19:08
+perlDreamer	right, Haarg	19:08
+cap10morgan	yeah, i'm just curious what it says on this site's database	19:08
@Haarg	so package import failures should be upgrade failures	19:08
+perlDreamer	Cool. I'll trap it in an eval and give some better feedback about what's going on .	19:09
+perlDreamer	preaction: no new templates today. They didn't pass the template tests.	19:39
@preaction	template tests?	19:39
@preaction	oh, have you been watching the template working group thread?	19:40
+perlDreamer	:)	19:40
+perlDreamer	they were almost ready to be installed	19:40
+perlDreamer	then I ran t/hardcodedExtras.t, t/i18n/template.t and t/templateChecker.t	19:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11498 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/ (4 files): Better error handling for importing packages.	19:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11499 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/upgrades/_upgrade.skeleton: Backporting package import error trapping.	19:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11500 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.7.13-7.7.14.pl: Another upgraded upgrade script.	19:53
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym		20:10
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+perlmonkey2	Can someone point me at a Wobject which catches the wobject edit returns to process changes to its definition?	21:53
+perlDreamer	huh?	21:56
+perlDreamer	wobjects aren't allowed to dynamicaly change their definition	21:56
@preaction	that would be very bad	21:56
@preaction	definition describes the underlying database table (and never vice-versa)	21:57
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: put down the keystone and try that question again, please :)	21:57
+perlmonkey2	hah. I mean when someone edits the definition I need to catch that in the wobject in order to affect some special changes.	22:00
+perlDreamer	the only place that does that is Crud	22:01
+perlmonkey2	In this particular case I want fields to be encrypted set in the definition, butthe wobject needs to make special calls to Crypt::setProvider when this happens.	22:01
+perlmonkey2	okay, cool, thanks.	22:01
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@Haarg	the only thing that comes to mind is saving the definition and comparing that to the current definition after an upgrade	22:03
@Haarg	but that sounds pretty horrible	22:04
+perlmonkey2	I thought there was a method from Asset that could be overridden to handle definition posts.	22:05
@Haarg	handle definition posts?	22:06
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: well when you submit your edits to the definition. Or is that Form passed to new?	22:06
@Haarg	now i'm even more confused	22:06
+perlmonkey2	sorry	22:07
@Haarg	are you about asset data updates?	22:07
@Haarg	or database structure updates?	22:07
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: are you talking about processPropertiesFromFormPost, or editing code for the definition subroutine?	22:07
+perlmonkey2	asset data updates	22:07
+perlmonkey2	from the admin panel when you are editing a new/existing wobject.	22:07
+perlmonkey2	the definition autoforms.	22:07
+perlmonkey2	yes!	22:07
+perlmonkey2	pd that's it.	22:07
+perlDreamer	that's pPFFP	22:07
+perlmonkey2	whew, I didn't have a clue what I was talking about :D	22:08
@Haarg	www_editSave uses processPropertiesFromFormPost	22:08
+perlmonkey2	but we got there, even if it was the hard way.	22:08
@Haarg	but wouldn't you want to handle this at a lower level?	22:08
@Haarg	like ->update ?	22:08
+perlDreamer	update would be better, then you'd capture ALL data changes to the asset	22:09
+perlmonkey2	Hmm, I only want when they alter the security tab of the edit form. Just two drop downs of available fields that can be encrypted and the type of encryption desired.	22:10
+perlDreamer	but what if it gets changed via a script?	22:10
+perlDreamer	or via editBranch	22:10
@Haarg	so the actual encryption is handled elsewhere?	22:10
@Haarg	like in the sql layet?	22:10
+perlmonkey2	This should be the only way to edit which type of encryption is used.	22:11
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: the encryption is done by a workflow.	22:11
+perlmonkey2	well, all the calls to the encrypted field must be wrapped in encrypt/decrypt, but as far as changing types of encryptoin used, the workflow doe sthat.	22:11
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: The old RSS was built that way, and it was a nightmare.	22:11
+perlmonkey2	This isn't my spec, but was pounded out by JT and Pat	22:12
+perlmonkey2	But I don't see why it would be a problem.	22:12
+perlDreamer	I get in trouble for this frequently, but I'd push back on the spec with respect to that.	22:12
@Haarg	it makes sense to use a workflow for the global enable/disable	22:13
+perlmonkey2	there is only a single way for the encryptoin provider of a field to be altered. In that instances definition. decrypt will work as long as the correct provider exists, regardless of the current selected provider, and encrypt always uses the current correct provider.	22:13
+perlmonkey2	and the workflow is in charge of making sure any changes to the type of provider are eventually executed for all altered rows.	22:14
@Haarg	i think you are using the word definition incorrectly	22:14
+perlmonkey2	what do you calls a wobjects settings?	22:14
+perlDreamer	s/instance's definition/instance's data/;	22:14
+perlmonkey2	err, properties.	22:15
+perlDreamer	right	22:15
+perlDreamer	in WebGUI parlance, the definition will never be changed by a user, only a developer	22:15
+perlmonkey2	and the definition means the table schema which defines the wobject?	22:16
@Haarg	roughly, yes	22:16
+perlmonkey2	okay, whew. I made that way harder than necessary.	22:18
@Haarg	where are you actually storing the information about the provider?	22:24
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: there will be two tables	22:26
+perlmonkey2	way, information about hte provider? Like the keys, its id, etc? that is in the config file.	22:27
+perlmonkey2	The providerId will be stored as a property, and also so in the cryptProvidersTable which has the table,field,key,providerId,oldProviderIds	22:27
@Haarg	ok	22:29
@Haarg	so using ->update for this wouldn't be right since it isn't acually asset properties that are being modified	22:30
@Haarg	so you'd need to use processPropertiesFromFormPost like you were thinking	22:30
@Haarg	although you'd want to have a real api for it and just have pPFFP hand off the new settings to it	22:31
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: I'm not sure how fancy it needs to be. It will be calling SUPER so the property is set and then Crypt::setProvider which changes the infor in cryptProviders which is what crypt/decrypt and the workflow use.	22:33
+perlmonkey2	Not sure what an API would look like for it? wrapper fo setProvider which also updates the property?	22:33
@Haarg	Crypt::setProvider is basically what i meant i think	22:33
@Haarg	just used to seeing too much code in pPFFP	22:34
+perlmonkey2	Yeah, good call. Whatever processing I have to do, I'll do in a public method. Doh, I have to do that anyways for testing.	22:34
+perlmonkey2	Don't want tests having their calls sent to SUPER	22:34
+perlmonkey2	for pPFFP.	22:34
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+perlDreamer	you can't catch a bad mysql insert with eval?	23:01
@Haarg	not easily	23:02
@Haarg	any sql failure usually triggers a fatal error which kills the whole request	23:03
@Haarg	something that needs to change in 8	23:03
+perlDreamer	yes	23:03
@Haarg	well, fatal needs to go away entirely	23:03
+perlDreamer	I see	23:06
+perlDreamer	I have a dream. I dream of a day where we subclass DBD::Mysql instead of wrap it	23:19
+perlDreamer	and save method calls left and right	23:19
+perlDreamer	and decide how we handle SQL errors	23:20
+perlDreamer	and all the little programmers would stand around, hand-in-hand	23:21
+perlDreamer	singing about Coca-cola	23:21
@Haarg	as it stands i think we could entirely eliminate SQL.pm	23:24
@Haarg	it does almost nothing of value given DBI's API as it is today	23:24
+perlDreamer	hashRefOfHashRefs?	23:25
@Haarg	http://search.cpan.org/~timb/DBI-1.609/DBI.pm#selectall_hashref	23:26
+perlDreamer	very nice	23:27
+perlDreamer	and selectall_arrayref, too	23:27
@Haarg	yeah	23:28
@Haarg	most of the utility methods have equivalents directly in DBI	23:28
+perlDreamer	so we'd only need setRow ?	23:28
@Haarg	something like that	23:29
+perlDreamer	maybe that could just be an aspect for database collateral	23:29
@Haarg	the other thing is logging	23:30
@Haarg	but using DBI's tracing mechanism would work for that	23:30
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+perlDreamer	preaction, Haarg, do you have any pending bug commits?	23:35
+perlDreamer	I'd like to start the release a little early	23:35
@preaction	no, i'm clear	23:35
+perlDreamer	no, you're supposed to say, "Oh, I forgot! Let me get that fixed right away!"	23:36
@preaction	i'm way too busy to say that :p	23:36
+perlDreamer	this is funny: http://twitter.com/sp4449/statuses/2555626938	23:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11501 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: Use WebGUI::Test rollback methods instead of an END block.	23:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11502 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: Preparing for 7.7.14 release.	23:52
--- Day changed Fri Jul 10 2009
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11503 /releases/WebGUI_7.7.14-beta: Release 7.7.14-beta	00:38
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11504 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.7.15 development.	01:22
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mducharme-work	good evening	01:40
mducharme-work	I'm working with the thingy object to link two data sets together	01:41
mducharme-work	it works, and I have links from the Cities and ISPs tables so that each city has an associated ISP	01:41
mducharme-work	but if I want to pull the ISP phone number onto the same page as the city data, it uses a different relationship	01:42
mducharme-work	so the record in the cities table may be linked to two different records in the ISPs table, one per field, which is not what I want	01:42
mducharme-work	there has to be some way of pulling the data from both tables onto the same page..	01:45
mducharme-work	do I have to use the SQL report wobject to accomplish this, or is there an easier way?	01:45
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+perlmonkey2	Is there a way to overload the asset update call so that a property is pulled from a table besides its own?	02:36
@Haarg	not generally	02:37
+perlmonkey2	Just realized the spec calls for all wobject instances to be able to edit the encryption globally.	02:37
+perlmonkey2	encryption settings that is.	02:37
@Haarg	not sure i follow	02:37
+perlmonkey2	encryption settings will be global for all instances of that wobject.	02:38
@Haarg	so the settings are per asset class	02:38
@Haarg	that's not something that should be handled by update	02:38
@Haarg	you can have pPFFP handle them and pass them off to a different api	02:39
+perlmonkey2	So say wobject A sets it to 'simple'. Then wobject B sets it to 'complex'. Next time wobject A loads, it will think the encryption is 'simple', but actually it is 'complex'. Because A will be loading the current type from its properties.	02:39
+perlDreamer	this is starting to sound like it has bad race condition problems	02:39
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: but when the properties load I need them to show the global value, not the local value. I'm guessing this shouldn't be done in the properties edit and should be a different screen.	02:40
+perlDreamer	what happens if someone tries to change the encryption while the workflow is running?	02:40
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: no worries, you can't screw up the encryption as long as the proper providers exist.	02:40
@Haarg	if the settings aren't stored in the asset's tables (as defined ->definition) they shouldn't use ->update	02:40
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: doesn't matter. If it is changed mid-flow, the workflow continues as it was, but on a delay or next run, it changes the rows to the new provider type.	02:41
@Haarg	you can fit it into the edit screen by adding to the form, and process them through pPFFP though	02:41
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: actually once it finishes updating it checks to see if anything changed and then would start over.	02:41
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: you sir are a brilliant man.	02:41
+perlDreamer	no offense, but /me is getting more skeptical. Not about the implementation, but about the whole concept.	02:42
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: wait, where would I access the form for the edit screen?	02:42
@Haarg	i don't really know how your implementation works so it's hard for me to say	02:43
+perlmonkey2	I'm looking through the asset.pm and not seeing it	02:43
+perlDreamer	you'd subclass getEditForm and modify the tabform object there	02:43
@Haarg	but getEditForm i think can do pretty much whatever it wants	02:43
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: right now I've just added a param to the properties	02:43
+perlmonkey2	ah, I see	02:43
@Haarg	if it isn't stored in the asset's own table you don't want it in definition	02:43
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2, Asset/Sku/ThingyRecord has a good example of doing just that	02:43
@Haarg	be sure it is clear that the settings are global though since everything else on that screen is per instance	02:43
+perlDreamer	although it just stuffs in some javascript	02:43
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: right, which is why I'm trying to take it out. but I still want it to show up in the edit form.	02:44
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: thank ye thank ye	02:44
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: yes, absolutely. Although no real damage can be done as long as no one edits the config file and removes/edits providers.	02:44
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: trust me, as long as the providers are in tact, you can't mess up the fields. They are always accessible.	02:45
+perlDreamer	I look forward to reviewing and extending your tests :)	02:45
+perlmonkey2	decrypt() doesn't care what the set provider is, it gets the provider from the field's header.	02:45
@Haarg	it sounds like it will all work on a technical level, just the way various parts work together sounds like it could become unpleasant	02:45
+perlmonkey2	unless the provider is None, then there is no header.	02:45
+perlmonkey2	its actually a pretty smooth design. I thoguht it was jacked up until I saw how bullet proof the design was.	02:46
+perlmonkey2	think of the set provider as just a suggestion to how the fields should be encrypted, and any new encryptions will use that provider. But decryptions use the current provider per field. The workflow just makes sure all the new encryptions occur that are needed.	02:47
+perlDreamer	which fields/assets in the db are getting encrypted?	02:48
+perlmonkey2	right now I'm just adding crypt functionality to three wobjects and no idea when or even if they'll be moved to head. responseJSON and a couple of user params.	02:49
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r11505 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	02:57
CIA-46	WebGUI: Unify tags used for title in the layout templates. They are all	02:57
CIA-46	WebGUI: now H2 tags, similar to the way they'll be done in the new	02:57
CIA-46	WebGUI: 7.7 templates.	02:57
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+perlDreamer	anyone have a good online tutorial for how to setup LDAP for authentication?	04:15
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+perlmonkey2	oh poor perlDreamer. Entering that hateful world of LDAP. Next thing you know he'll be asking about LDAPS.	05:04
SDuensin	...or AD.	05:04
+perlmonkey2	SDuensin: ah yes, proof we live in a cruel world.	05:11
SDuensin	You have no idea. I may end up back in ASP.NET.	05:17
+perlmonkey2	SDuensin: at least its .NET ?	05:20
SDuensin	That's a consolation?	05:20
* SDuensin sighs		05:23
SDuensin	My projects have run my funds dry. Time to get a "real" job for awhile and pay some bills.	05:24
+perlmonkey2	hah, I'd hustle for handy man work before I'd get a real job.	05:25
SDuensin	Unless they need a handy programmer, I'm not of much use.	05:26
+perlmonkey2	If you can work the hustle, get things done, and schedule things right, you can make serious cash.	05:26
+perlmonkey2	the world is short of people who can fix random things.	05:26
SDuensin	I have a random broken drawer, leaky tub, and a few other things of my own.	05:27
carogray	it's me again more stupid questions	06:12
carogray	If I am just trying to test little bits at a time, can I put CSS in the Extra <head> elements (tags) of the metadata tab and then html in the properties of snippet and have it all show up?	06:14
carogray	ie I want to test out a header	06:14
+perlmonkey2	carogray: seems easy enough just to test?	06:21
carogray	trying to figure out how the metatags work and looking at applying CSS to small bits at a time	06:22
carogray	cannot get syntax and understanding of what goes where	06:22
carogray	gave up on metadata extra head tags and just put css in properties of snippet	06:22
carogray	<head>	06:23
carogray	<style type="text/css">	06:23
carogray	CSS....stuff	06:23
carogray	then </head> </style> then enclosed html snippet in body tags - I know this is not the way to do it ultimately	06:23
carogray	but I just wanted to see if I could make the header look the way I want it to	06:24
carogray	cannot get the background:url('FileUrl(images.blkbar.gif);') to show up, not sure if it's syntax or where I am putting CSS or ...?	06:25
carogray	SORRY - duh. If I could learn to type properly I wouldn't have to be interrupting you guys, just realized when I uploaded the file I gave it the url imagesblkbar.gif not images/blkbar.gif. Stupid - sorry	06:30
carogray	never mind	06:30
+perlmonkey2	heh, I do that all the time	06:33
+perlmonkey2	no worries	06:33
+perlmonkey2	This, my friends, is a person devoted to science: http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q184/KengoDrums/Screenshot.png	06:34
CIA-46	WebGUI: patspam * r11506 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/Test.pm: Survey: fixed handling of multi-choice question bundles in Test.pm	06:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: patspam * r11507 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs):	06:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: FilePump bug fixes	06:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: Restricted file uris to uploads and extras dirs	06:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: Validation messages for invalid file uris	06:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: Updated i18n	06:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: Added more tests	06:40
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topsub	when you do an user import can you assign the user a group to join?	08:20
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mducharme-work	perlDreamer: I'm running LDAP for auth right now...	18:32
+perlDreamer	cool!	18:32
+perlDreamer	if you can help me get a test server set up, I can fix a bug	18:32
mducharme-work	sure	18:32
+perlDreamer	I don't need organizations, roles, business structures or anything beyond usernames and passwords	18:33
mducharme-work	the ldap setup in webgui is confusing because the options are mislabelled	18:33
+perlDreamer	really?	18:33
mducharme-work	yes	18:33
mducharme-work	well poorly labelled	18:33
mducharme-work	labelled in such a way that no LDAP directory uses, to my knowledge	18:33
+perlDreamer	well, labels can be changed. It could be that whoever wrote that part used whatever was familiar to them or their company.	18:34
mducharme-work	right	18:35
SynQ	it was martin	18:35
SynQ	as far as I'm aware	18:35
@plainhao	mysql> select * from webguiVersion;	18:35
@plainhao	ERROR 1194 (HY000): Table 'webguiVersion' is marked as crashed and should be repaired	18:35
+perlDreamer	SynQ, you blame martin for everything	18:35
+perlDreamer	uh oh	18:35
SynQ	but of course	18:35
SynQ	:)	18:35
SynQ	plainhao: mysqlcheck -r webguiVersion	18:36
mducharme-work	well for starters the ldap URL is generally simple... ldap://serverip:389/	18:36
+perlDreamer	mducharme-work, I actually need help on the _LDAP_ side, too	18:36
mducharme-work	ahh	18:36
mducharme-work	using openldap or edirectory or AD?	18:36
+perlDreamer	openldap	18:36
SynQ	plainhao: does that help?	18:37
@plainhao	did that recover from backup?	18:37
@plainhao	i should've asked before i ran the command :)	18:37
mducharme-work	ok, we have a guy here using openldap, I mostly use edir.. he uses phpldapadmin to manage openldap, it looks fairly user friendly	18:37
SynQ	the command fixes that table	18:37
SynQ	if it can be fixed	18:37
+perlDreamer	mducharme-work: I'm cool with using vim and a commandline	18:38
SynQ	recovery from backup works differently	18:38
@plainhao	ok, thanks, SynQ	18:38
SynQ	plainhao: did your server crash or something?	18:38
SynQ	since in that case you might be better off with this command:	18:38
mducharme-work	perlDreamer if you go that route, then it is much more difficult because you will be creating users by making ldif files and importing them....	18:38
+perlDreamer	yup, but I only need 2 users	18:39
SynQ	mysqlcheck -Ar ALL	18:39
mducharme-work	ok	18:39
+perlDreamer	this is a one-time setup for doing a debug	18:39
SynQ	mysqlcheck -Ar	18:39
SynQ	-A for 'ALL databases'	18:39
SynQ	and -r for repair	18:39
@plainhao	ah, ok	18:39
@plainhao	thanks again, SynQ	18:40
SynQ	no problem	18:40
@Haarg	perlDreamer, please keep track of what you do to set up openldap. i'm sure we'll want to do more testing with it in the future before we're able to get an automated test setup working for it.	18:41
@Haarg	i've set it up and tested with it in the past but don't remember any of it	18:41
SynQ	perhaps documenting it in the wiki is a good plan	18:41
+perlDreamer	Haarg, you got it. I'd much rather have this working with Net::LDAP::Server::Test, but expediency wins in this case.	18:42
@Haarg	thanks, and yeah at some point it would be great to get that worked out	18:42
* Haarg notes that it is no longer 'the wiki' :/		18:44
+perlDreamer	yeah :(	18:44
+perlDreamer	:<	18:44
SynQ	what is is called then now?	18:45
mducharme-work	one ldap feature I'd like is there is a lot of data stored in common between the webgui profile and ldap.. it would be nice to have a way of keeping those in sync	18:45
+perlDreamer	in my selfish opinion, we either need a dashboard so we can monitor all the forums and wikis, or they all need to be merged into 1 place with topic links from the topic sections	18:45
mducharme-work	work phone, home phone, address, title, etc	18:45
+perlDreamer	mducharme-work, isn't that in there already	18:45
SynQ	probably it should go in this wiki: http://www.webgui.org/admin/wiki	18:45
+perlDreamer	sync profiles to ldap?	18:45
+perlDreamer	and sync profiles from ldap?	18:45
+perlDreamer	they are workflows	18:45
mducharme-work	perldreamer I've never seen an explanation of what that does	18:45
@Haarg	you can do that mducharme, but it isn't obvious how it is done	18:45
SynQ	multiple wiki's suck	18:46
mducharme-work	I tried turning it on but it didn't seem to do anything	18:46
SynQ	they should all be interconnected	18:46
+perlDreamer	mducharme-work, in return for helping me get this setup, I can swap you some LDAP workflow help.	18:46
SynQ	or at least inherit into a 'master wiki' like the calendar does	18:46
SynQ	oh	18:47
SynQ	I see I just repeated the selfish opinion of perlDreamer in my own selfish words	18:47
mducharme-work	cool	18:47
+perlDreamer	SynQ, maybe we should add some comments to the bug that is posted about this...	18:47
SynQ	http://www.webgui.org/design/forum/forum/wiki-in-new-design	18:49
SynQ	that one?	18:49
+perlDreamer	this is the point where preaction usually chimes in and says, "I have some code that will fix all this. I just need some time"	18:50
+perlDreamer	SynQ: this one - http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/10585	18:50
SynQ	posted one	18:50
* SynQ pokes preaction		18:51
SynQ	I think he is vast asleep	18:51
SynQ	I'm also very sad to see that there has been not even one submission for the design contest	18:51
+perlDreamer	I know. I'm sorry for that.	18:51
SynQ	the announcement for the design contest is also hard to find though	18:51
SynQ	I tried to find the rules today	18:51
SynQ	and found myself reloading the page 10 times just to be able to click on the right banner	18:52
SynQ	It's also not in this list: http://www.webgui.org/promote/inthenews	18:52
* perlDreamer pokes tavisto		18:52
SynQ	I would say that the contest should be prolonged for at least 1 month	18:53
SynQ	the deadline being at the 1st of september would be a good plan	18:53
mducharme-work	on an unrelated note are there any plans to make the webgui upgrade process any more user friendly?	18:53
+perlDreamer	sure. And the winner announced at the WUC, perhaps?	18:53
SynQ	good plan	18:54
+perlDreamer	mducharme-work: what issues are you having with upgrades?	18:54
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+perlDreamer	we fixed two upgrade bugs this week. Here's what it took	18:54
+perlDreamer	1) user posted a bug	18:54
+perlDreamer	2) user answered questions about the bug with a week of being asked	18:54
+perlDreamer	it's really quite simple ;)	18:55
mducharme-work	well none, but having to read through the gotchas and check carefully for any perl modules that need to be installed in advance before running the upgrade seems like something that could be automated easily enough	18:55
mducharme-work	because I've had upgrades fail before because I had missed a perl module in the gotchas	18:55
+perlDreamer	perl modules have been left out of the gotchas, too	18:55
+perlDreamer	but testEnvironment.pl is almost always up to date	18:55
SynQ	mducharme-work: you should always use the WRE	18:56
mducharme-work	yeah I do use the WRE	18:56
SynQ	0.9.3 works fine for current stable and current beta	18:56
+perlDreamer	even with the WRE, you have to install modules	18:56
mducharme-work	exactly	18:56
SynQ	perlDreamer: not if it's up to me	18:56
+perlDreamer	well, have had to	18:56
+perlDreamer	thanks to SynQ, that's gotten much better	18:56
mducharme-work	why can the module installation not be triggered by the same upgrade pl script that upgrades the database?	18:56
+perlDreamer	such a script has been written by cap10morgan	18:57
SynQ	is github broken?	18:57
+perlDreamer	quite possibly	18:57
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+perlDreamer	whoa!	18:57
SynQ	that sucks	18:57
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan: good morning.	18:57
SynQ	there is the devil	18:58
mducharme-work	and the upgrade scripts themselves, I always carefully parse through them to look for any errors whatsoever, and it is made even more confusing when lines sometimes end in "... OK!", sometimes end in "... Done.", sometimes end in "... DONE!" and sometimes nothing.	18:58
mducharme-work	er when the upgrade runs	18:58
mducharme-work	not the scripts	18:58
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan: Please meet mducharme-work. He's interested in your auto-upgrade script	18:58
@Haarg	SynQ, http://twitter.com/github	18:58
SynQ	ah	18:58
SynQ	in my opinion github sucks	18:59
+cap10morgan	hey mducharme-work	18:59
mducharme-work	hey	18:59
SynQ	plainblack should run their own git server	18:59
SynQ	just like they did the svn one	18:59
+perlDreamer	but what happens when PB goes down?	18:59
+perlDreamer	I think the hope was that by running it on an external service it would be more reliable, and less maintenance	19:00
@Haarg	moving git to someone else's hosting was done on purpose	19:00
SynQ	well	19:00
SynQ	Haarg: I know	19:00
+cap10morgan	mducharme-work: you have some questions about my new upgrade script?	19:00
mducharme-work	I didn't even know about it	19:00
mducharme-work	but there are lots of things I do not like about the current upgrade process	19:00
+cap10morgan	it's submitted for inclusion in WRE 1.0 at this point, but i use it every day	19:01
+cap10morgan	the main things it adds are automatic handling of "stop" versions	19:01
+cap10morgan	and automatic installation of newly required perl modules	19:01
mducharme-work	I had just mentioned that I wish I didn't have to parse through the gotchas file manually to check for new modules I have to install	19:01
mducharme-work	"stop" versions?	19:01
SynQ	I was going to have a look at WRE development status	19:01
SynQ	but github is down	19:01
+perlDreamer	due to database changes, sometimes you can't always change from one version of WebGUI to another	19:01
+cap10morgan	those are versions you have to install and upgrade to before you can move on	19:02
mducharme-work	right	19:02
@Haarg	luckily stop versions have been pretty predictable for a while	19:02
mducharme-work	yeah I know you need all the pl and sql scripts to get there in the correct step sequence	19:02
+cap10morgan	currently it relies on a json metadata file to know what's what	19:02
mducharme-work	I've discovered that once when I had to upgrade a really really old webgui to the latest version	19:02
SynQ	I'm going to have to include the perl modules needed for the openId module into the WRE some day soon	19:02
+cap10morgan	eventually that will need to be replaced by a plainblack web service or something similar	19:02
+perlDreamer	it should be a file in git	19:03
+perlDreamer	that drives testEnvironment.pl	19:03
+perlDreamer	that way, it's only ever in 1 place	19:03
SynQ	mducharme-work: we have an 'upgrade factory'	19:03
+cap10morgan	or a file in git :)	19:03
+perlDreamer	so there aren't any differences	19:03
+cap10morgan	maybe w/ a backup copy on update.webgui.org	19:03
+perlDreamer	mducharme-work: how does this look for an ldif file: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m719a0233	19:03
SynQ	which is a special VM that can be used for webgui upgrades for versions back till 5.5.4	19:03
+perlDreamer	brb	19:04
+cap10morgan	speaking of which, i need to send rizen a new patch	19:04
+cap10morgan	i fixed a few bugs since i sent that to him	19:04
mducharme-work	my other comment is the upgrade scripts should have a common output format for whether the particular steps completed successfully	19:05
mducharme-work	and error traps, becuase I"ve seen errors in the text output that were not caught by the script and stopped.. and an auto restore from backup would be nice in cases where the upgrade failed due to some error in the database	19:05
SynQ	perhaps a 'upgrade on a copy' would be nicer	19:06
mducharme-work	I don't rely on the backup in the current autoupgrade script, what I normally do now is before I upgrade, I stop all webgui services and mysql and .tgz the whole /data/ tree	19:06
SynQ	that you take a copy of the site (a point in time snapshot)	19:06
SynQ	upgrade that copy and if it worked you turn it into the 'working site'	19:06
mducharme-work	that would be excellent	19:06
mducharme-work	that way there would be almost no downtime	19:07
SynQ	is there a way to turn a WebGUI instance into 'read only' mode?	19:07
mducharme-work	because one day for some reason there was a duplicate record in the database, dunno how it got there, it was in the sessions table	19:07
mducharme-work	but it caused upgrade of one of my sites to fail	19:07
mducharme-work	it continued on through the upgrades not noticing the problem but the site didn't work afterwards, had to go find and delete the offending row	19:08
mducharme-work	perlDreamer: typically the objectclass for a user would be inetOrgPerson	19:08
+perlDreamer	SynQ: not really	19:09
+perlDreamer	due to user logging, content metadata and all it pretty much has to be read/write	19:09
+perlDreamer	also session scratch and caching	19:10
+perlDreamer	it's doable, just isn't done now	19:10
+perlDreamer	mducharme-work: aside from that is it okay?	19:10
SynQ	perlDreamer: that is a pitty	19:10
mducharme-work	perldreamer you will probably need to specify an sn and cn as well	19:10
mducharme-work	and your dn should include the actual object name	19:11
SynQ	perlDreamer: that would be something awsome to work on at the hackaton	19:11
SynQ	make WebGUI able to switch to a sort of 'snap shottable state'	19:11
mducharme-work	depending if you want the object to be referenced with uid or cn, you would use dn: uid=joebob,dc=localhost	19:11
mducharme-work	or you could use dn: cn=joebob,dc=localhost	19:12
mducharme-work	oh and it should be userPassword, not password:	19:12
SynQ	I have to go home	19:12
mducharme-work	the choice to use "dn: uid=etc" versus "dn: cn=etc" will have a bearing on the webgui config	19:13
mducharme-work	so you should choose one of those conventions for all the users and stick to it, and you would correspondingly put either "uid" or "cn" into the "LDAP Identity (default)" field in webgui	19:14
mducharme-work	the name and help for that field is totally wrong	19:14
mducharme-work	the help popup text says it's generally "shortname" but I've never seen that before	19:15
mducharme-work	it's actually in 90% of cases either cn or uid	19:15
mducharme-work	that's the most mislabeled piece of the entire ldap setup page	19:16
mducharme-work	I might like to suggest new labels for some of those ldap settings if anybody is interested in considering them	19:16
+perlDreamer	mducharme, we always listen to suggestions	19:20
+perlDreamer	we can't always take them, but we'll always listen	19:21
+perlDreamer	and if we can't we'll try to tell you why	19:21
+perlDreamer	we'll go with cn instead of uid then	19:22
+perlDreamer	mducharme-work: is this better: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m63d8b40c	19:23
mducharme-work	yeah that looks like it should work	19:26
+perlDreamer	cool	19:26
SynQ	hatsa	19:26
mducharme-work	http://webgui.pastebin.com/f16830386	19:26
mducharme-work	those are my suggested changes to the labels