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| elnino | I have two sites on a single installation of webgui. Any idea why captcha would appear in one and not the other? I thought maybe it was my site design, but "verify your humanity" isn't seen in the underlying html... | 04:03 |
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| elnino | oh. the versions are stuck.. | 04:05 |
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| elnino | hmm. well, that's not true really. THose are from 9/22 | 04:11 |
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| elnino | I made the changes today and those version tags went thru correctly as far as I can tell. | 04:11 |
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| elnino | It's funny. I don't see the captcha, but when I submit the form, it says that it was entered incorrectly. even though there is no html code for the captcha field on the page. | 04:24 |
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| elnino | I even tried makeing a package of the form that has the captcha and tried importing it into my other site, and it wouldn't import. This site must be hosted. but I'm not getting any error messages. Im watching webgui.log with tail -f | 04:55 |
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| elnino | s/hosted/hosed | 05:03 |
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| elnino | hi I have two sites ona single installation of webgui. Site A has captcha, site B doesn't not. But Site B has it configured. I thought maybe there was a flaw in the deisgn, but there is nothing in the html showing that it's there. | 05:37 |
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| elnino | when I submit the form, it complains that I didn't enter the right word for captcha. | 05:38 |
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| elnino | I even tried making a package from site A and importing it to site b, and I couldn't even import the package.. and there were no errors in webgui.log . | 05:38 |
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| elnino | Help? Any ideas what to look at? | 05:38 |
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| elnino | I have 7.5.24 | 05:39 |
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| elnino | both sites areon the same ip address. does that have anything to do with it? | 05:40 |
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| elnino | I see that captcha uses scratch variables. | 05:41 |
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| @Haarg | captcha on what? | 05:41 |
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| elnino | a data form asset | 05:41 |
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| elnino | I'm even makeing sure that i'm a visitor. Cause I know it doesn't display if I'm a registered user. | 05:44 |
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| elnino | I'm sure it's somethign dumb, but it's got me stumped. | 05:44 |
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| elnino | btw, what is the default time that queued emails are sent? | 05:51 |
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| elnino | never mind, found it in scheduler. | 05:51 |
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| @Haarg | have you checked the template? | 05:54 |
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| @Haarg | the captcha is a separate template variable | 05:54 |
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| elnino | well. both are using the smae template by name, but I didn't look at the actuall code. Good idea. Letme look. | 05:55 |
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| elnino | you got it! Thanks! I'll have to remember that! | 05:59 |
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| elnino | Thanks Haarg - I'm now going to sleep well. | 06:01 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: translation * r8232 /translations/German/German/Asset_SQLReport.pm: Update from translation server | 03:16 |
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| knowmad | Is anyone tuned in today? | 22:16 |
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| knowmad | That's pretty much what i figured for a Sunday... | 22:17 |
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| @Haarg | i'm around for a little | 22:36 |
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| knowmad | hey haarg, you still around? | 22:52 |
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| elnino | hey! recently discovered the style wizard thingy... Is there a way to setup some different layouts for the wizard? - didi I miss that chapter in th edeveloper's book? | 07:50 |
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| elnino | The other question I have is, can I setup multiple roots, each being a different subdomain? - is that a redirect in the modproxy? | 07:55 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | Anyone else notice that the RFE 'submitted by' sort doesn't really work? | 17:25 |
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| BartJo1 | perlmonkey2: seems you're right | 17:27 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | probably sorting on id or something. | 17:28 |
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| BartJo1 | prolly | 17:33 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 17:34 |
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| BartJo1 | hi | 17:34 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | If you remove an activity from a site config file, that activity will no longer be ran when the workflow is, right? And when the site is upgraded, that activity won't be magically readded? | 17:58 |
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| BartJo1 | no, I think not | 17:58 |
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| BartJo1 | the new config isn't copied over the old one | 17:59 |
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| BartJo1 | but if it's called you will get errors in your llog I think | 17:59 |
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| BartJo1 | if it's included in the hourly | 18:00 |
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| BartJo1 | or something like that | 18:00 |
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| BartJo1 | can't you remove it from the workflow? | 18:00 |
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| BartJo1 | then, you don't have to disable it | 18:01 |
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| BartJo1 | sounds like a kill -9 where a kill works too | 18:01 |
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| @rizen | perlmonkey2: the listing in the config is only for the workflow activities available to be added to workflows | 18:54 |
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| @rizen | removing it from the config will NOT stop it from being run | 18:54 |
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| @rizen | you actually have to remove it from any workflows it's part of to do that | 18:54 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | rizen: okay, that makes a lot more sense. | 18:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | wow | 18:57 |
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| +perlDreamer | knowmad has a good headshot | 18:57 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: frank * r8233 /branch/frank: WebGUI branch for frank to develop WebGUI features to be added to WebGUI once they've been tested | 18:59 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: frank * r8234 /experimental/HelpDesk/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (Ticket.pm Wobject/HelpDesk.pm): HelpDesk assets and Tickets can now be properly purged from WebGUI | 18:59 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: frank * r8235 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Exception.pm: Fixed a grammar error in an error messaage | 18:59 |
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| @rizen | perlDreamer: i know you asked for 1000 pictures. here's a start: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=66383&id=565308834&ref=share | 19:39 |
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| @rizen | somebody else's pics | 19:39 |
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| @rizen | i'll post mine this week sometime | 19:39 |
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| SDuensin | Hey rizen | 19:39 |
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| @rizen | hey sd | 19:40 |
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| SDuensin | WebGUI needs to do SMTP/IMAP. I hate setting up mail servers. | 19:41 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: frank * r8236 /branch/frank/lib/WebGUI/ (15 files in 6 dirs): initial commit | 19:41 |
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| @rizen | you mean it needs to be an SMTP server? | 19:41 |
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| @rizen | rather than use an SMTP server? | 19:42 |
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| SDuensin | I mean it needs to be everything I need in one nice box. | 19:42 |
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| SDuensin | Yep. Part of my "Project Lazy". | 19:42 |
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| SDuensin | Seriously. At this point, I think it'd be easier to write my own mail server than learn to configure one. :-) | 19:42 |
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| @rizen | no it wouldn't SD | 19:43 |
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| @rizen | i guarantee you tha | 19:43 |
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| @rizen | that | 19:44 |
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| @rizen | if you don't want to configure one, you should just host with PB | 19:44 |
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| SDuensin | Says you. Written one before. Wasn't that hard. | 19:44 |
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| @rizen | we provide all that for you | 19:44 |
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| SDuensin | PB won't do all the psycho stuff I want to do. | 19:44 |
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| @rizen | writing one that handles everything that it needs to handle, isn't easy | 19:44 |
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| SDuensin | Ah, but see, that's the catch! It only needs to handle what *I* want. :-) | 19:44 |
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| @rizen | sure just doing straight routing isn't that hard, but there are about 1000 RFC's you need to implement to be a real SMTP server | 19:44 |
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| SDuensin | Yea, yea, yea. Take all the fun out of it. | 19:47 |
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| +perlDreamer | rizen, that page requires a facebook login | 19:49 |
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| @rizen | i viewed it without logging in | 19:49 |
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| @rizen | try clicking this link first: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=565308834&k=X41T356XV36M5D1GRKZTRU | 19:50 |
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| @rizen | maybe that gives you a session or something | 19:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | yeah, that's better. | 19:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | What's the small fuzzy that Gilligan has? | 19:51 |
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| @rizen | it's my rat | 19:52 |
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| @rizen | a fake rat | 19:52 |
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| @rizen | but it's part of the halloween decor at casa smith | 19:52 |
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| +perlDreamer | nice costume, dude | 19:53 |
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| +perlDreamer | $dayJob is exacting revenge for all that idle time | 19:53 |
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| +perlDreamer | I haven't had time to do any wG work for weeks | 19:54 |
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| @rizen | that sucks PD | 20:10 |
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| @rizen | SDuensin: your RFE is unjustified and without merit | 20:11 |
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| @rizen | and your mommy dresses you funny | 20:11 |
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| SDuensin | It's justified and you dress yourself funny. | 20:12 |
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| SDuensin | I didn't see a "Request for fixing annoying things" so I filed an RFE. | 20:12 |
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| @rizen | It's only annoying because you are trying to deprive advertisers of their cash | 20:13 |
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| @rizen | and if you are | 20:13 |
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| @rizen | then you shouldn't use the WebGUI advertising feature either. =) | 20:13 |
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| SDuensin | I'm the advertiser. Maybe I'm trying to prevent invalid impressions? Hmmmm? :-P | 20:14 |
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| @rizen | If you're an advertiser why are you using an ad blocker? | 20:14 |
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| @rizen | do you live in bizarro world? | 20:14 |
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| SDuensin | What do you think? :-D | 20:15 |
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| @rizen | I'm going to reject your RFE based upon this conversation. | 20:15 |
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| SDuensin | hehehe | 20:15 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: doug * r8237 /WebGUI/etc/WebGUI.conf.original: added DataTable to WebGUI.conf.original | 20:24 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: doug * r8238 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataTable.pm: some bugfixes. less reliance on pre-prepared form control | 20:24 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: doug * r8239 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/DataTable.pm: | 20:24 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: fixes to DataTable form control | 20:24 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: removed stupid configuration and added some necessary ones | 20:24 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: doug * r8240 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/DataTable.pm: perltidy | 20:25 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: graham * r8241 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: not allowed to add calendar events if in can edit group but not can add event group | 20:25 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: doug * r8242 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataTable.pm: perltidy | 20:25 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: doug * r8243 /WebGUI/ (sbin/installClass.pl lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/Installable.pm): added Installable aspect and a script to install classes | 20:25 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: frank * r8244 /branch/frank/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.6.1-7.6.2.pl: resetdev installs account system | 21:09 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: doug * r8245 /WebGUI/ (sbin/installClass.pl lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/Installable.pm): perltidy | 21:09 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | What about a rss asset that had plugins for all appropriate assets to grab rss entries from. This asset would contain feeds and feeds would be groups of asset URLS from which to get the RSS data form. You would get the rss feed by going to the rssAsset&feed=TheCoolFeed | 22:12 |
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| apeiron | perlmonkey2, So it'd basically be a planet implementation for one site? | 22:13 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | apeiron: yes. This way, no matter how many feeds or assets you are grabbing from, you only have one asset instance added. | 22:14 |
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| apeiron | perlmonkey2, Sounds interesting. Now the important question: why? | 22:15 |
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| @rizen | why ask why, drink bud dry | 22:15 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | apeiron: an easy way to do rss feeds | 22:16 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | most of the rss logic can be stored in a single asset, so no duplication of the rss generation or feed auth. | 22:16 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | else each asset would have to know rss. | 22:17 |
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| @preaction | why not an Aspect? | 22:17 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | let me read up on Aspects :D | 22:17 |
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| topsub | i am in WebGUI 7.4.8 and how can i send an message to anotehr user? when i go to inbox i don't have the option to send an inbox message. | 22:34 |
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| Bernd_ | Are Aspects in WebGUI related to the Aspect module on CPAN? | 22:40 |
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| Bernd_ | Or is there another good starting point? | 22:44 |
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| Bernd_ | I mean, for reading. | 22:44 |
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| @preaction | Class::C3 and WebGUI::AssetAspect | 22:46 |
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| Bernd_ | Thanks! | 22:47 |
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| @preaction | the WebGUI::AssetAspect::Installable is a simple one, if you want an example | 22:48 |
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| Bernd_ | I am going to have a look at it! | 22:49 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Nov 03 23:09:14 2008 |
| --- Log opened Mon Nov 03 23:14:17 2008 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: jt * r8246 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Crud.pm: allow updates via form post | 23:51 |
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| @rizen | Don't listen to preaction, WebGUI::AssetAspect::Comments is the only aspect worth looking at | 23:53 |
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| @rizen | preaction, we're going to have to have an Aspect-off | 23:53 |
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| @preaction | Comments is bigger, more awesome, and more complex, and so harder to see what's happening | 23:59 |
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| @preaction | on the other hand, Comments has an implementing class (Wiki) | 23:59 |
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| @preaction | hm... | 23:59 |
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| --- Day changed Tue Nov 04 2008 |
| @rizen | Actually, I was thinking more of a contest to see who can build the cooler aspect | 00:02 |
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| @rizen | though, i've already come up with about 100 features to add to the comment aspect | 00:03 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | preaction: can you explain the AssetAspect::Comments::get comments call? $self->next::method('comments') Is the next::method sending the call back to the object using the aspect? | 00:08 |
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| @preaction | perlmonkey2, check the Class::C3 docs for what next::method does | 00:09 |
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| slickware | hey, Jamie, you still in here? | 00:11 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | preaction: so next would send the call to the next inherited class, Asset. But Asset doesn't have a 'comments' method. | 00:14 |
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| @preaction | perlmonkey2, it detects that and doesn't cause an error | 00:15 |
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| @preaction | at least, i hope | 00:15 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | reading Class::C3 I think it might | 00:15 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | If next::method cannot find a next method to re-dispatch the call to, it will throw an exception. | 00:15 |
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| @preaction | dunno, JT wrote that aspect | 00:16 |
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| @rizen | perlmonkey2: can you point me to the line number or method name that you're talking about? | 00:17 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | preaction: yeah, I'm not getting something because that method is called with that param. | 00:17 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | rizen: sub get in AssetApect::Comments | 00:17 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | line 217 | 00:17 |
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| @rizen | yeah, it's not calling a method called "comments" | 00:18 |
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| @rizen | it's passing the string "comments" to get() | 00:18 |
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| @rizen | in SUPER:: | 00:18 |
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| @rizen | it's the same as saying | 00:18 |
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| @rizen | $self->SUPER::get('comments') | 00:18 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | so $self->next::method passes the params to the super of whatever method it is in? | 00:18 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | that is craaaazy | 00:18 |
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| @rizen | next::method is very similar to SUPER except that instead of calling vertically | 00:19 |
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| @rizen | it calls horizontally and then vertically | 00:19 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | hmm, now the example code in perldoc makes sense | 00:19 |
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| @rizen | aspects (in WebGUI) are multiple-inheritance | 00:20 |
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| @rizen | and therefore can be a bit confusing | 00:20 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | yeah, I think I understand enough to really screw something up now :D | 00:20 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | rizen: but I'm still not entirely sure rss feeds should be aspects tacked onto existing classes. Single class with plugins to existing assets, or change existing assets to use an aspect? | 00:22 |
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| @rizen | once we get a nice stable of asset aspects built, we should be able to throw together absolutely amazing assets in very little time...just because of the power aspects give us | 00:22 |
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| @preaction | the RSS Aspect is already planned | 00:22 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | rizen: heh, that has been the promise of OOP since its inception. I'm still waiting for it. | 00:23 |
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| @rizen | perlmonkey2: did you read my dev mailing list post about the death of the collaboration system? | 00:23 |
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| @rizen | webgui asset aspects will bring it about | 00:24 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | yes | 00:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | Death to the CS! | 00:24 |
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| @rizen | let's say we wanted to keep the collaboration system, but we just wanted to "aspectize" it | 00:24 |
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| @rizen | WebGUI::Asset::Post would be entirely replaced by the Comments aspect | 00:25 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | I can see them doing that. And it does seem much sexier to instead of having big heavy Blog asset, having a small light Blog asset that aspects almost all of its functionality. | 00:25 |
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| @rizen | The comments aspect would just be added to Thread | 00:25 |
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| @rizen | CS would get the RSS aspect | 00:25 |
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| @rizen | both CS and Thread would get the Subscribable aspect | 00:25 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | oh man, when you talk like that I get all excited. | 00:25 |
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| @rizen | thusly replacing about 400 lines of code in each | 00:25 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | seems like the most important part (of many important parts) is all assets start behaving much more alike. | 00:26 |
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| @rizen | CS and Thread would both get ReplyViaEmail aspect, allowing emails to come in and post to them | 00:26 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | similiar functionality will *feel* the same, because it is the sam.e | 00:26 |
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| @rizen | that's a big part of it | 00:27 |
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| @rizen | the thing is that whole objects often aren't as reusable as their parts | 00:27 |
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| @rizen | and that's where aspects come into play | 00:27 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | wow....yeah, I can see how cool this is going to be. | 00:28 |
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| @rizen | it's going to take some time, but once we have the stable of aspects...webgui assets can and will become a lot more uniform, tested and therefore stable, and easier to build | 00:29 |
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| @rizen | we owe most of this to preaction, who lit a fire under my ass to finally start pushing aspects (cuz he's been pushing the concept for about a year now) | 00:30 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | should make it easier to move more logic to the client side. Adding ajax hooks will be a lot simpler. | 00:31 |
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| @rizen | will it? | 00:31 |
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| @rizen | i don' t know about that | 00:31 |
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| @rizen | certainly some reusable ajax hooks | 00:31 |
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| @rizen | but in general, i think most ajax stuff will be just as it is now | 00:31 |
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| @rizen | WebGUI::Crud is in the same vein though | 00:33 |
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| @rizen | it's not an aspect | 00:33 |
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| @rizen | but it makes it much easier to build collateral for assets | 00:33 |
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| @rizen | and because all collateral will be from a standard base (WebGUI::Crud), all collateral will be more uniform, tested and therefore stable | 00:34 |
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| @rizen | i've already built 6 objects on WebGUI::Crud, and it has saved me hours of time because i fix a problem in one place and it fixes it in all 6 objects | 00:34 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | nice | 00:34 |
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| @rizen | not to mention the test suite keeps me informed of how the changes I make to crud impact things | 00:35 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | wow crud has really changed since I last looked at it. It is huge | 00:36 |
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| @rizen | has it? | 00:36 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | yes, it was just a few methods last I looked at it. Now its 942 lines of code with some very interesting helpers | 00:37 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | updateTable? Come on, that is just slick. | 00:38 |
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| @rizen | the only thing i don't like about the WebGUI::Crud implementation so far is the join clause in the getAll methods | 00:39 |
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| @rizen | i think i'm going to remove that | 00:39 |
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| @rizen | updateTable wasn't there when you last looked at it? man i thought that was there in the very first implementation | 00:39 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | maybe I missed it. | 00:40 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | don't know how as it is kind of the heart of the thing | 00:41 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | rizen: you dont' like the joins? Why not? | 00:45 |
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| @rizen | i don't like that you can throw raw SQL into the joins | 00:46 |
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| @rizen | it allows for sloppiness | 00:46 |
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| @rizen | mainly in field quoting | 00:46 |
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| @rizen | i like joinUsing | 00:46 |
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| @rizen | just not join | 00:46 |
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| @rizen | i have a similar problem with the where clause | 00:47 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | hmm, change the syntax of join then? | 00:47 |
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| @rizen | i really like where "fieldname = ?", $value | 00:47 |
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| @rizen | like i have it now | 00:47 |
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| @rizen | but i wish i had a way to auto-quote the field name | 00:47 |
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| @rizen | i don't mind having raw SQL in a class like this | 00:48 |
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| @rizen | i just want to be able to make it as automatic and as safe as possible | 00:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | $session->db->quoteIdentifier | 00:48 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | I keep running in circles in my head trying to think how abstract that and DBIx::Class et al is what comes to mind. | 00:49 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | which is way too slow | 00:49 |
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| @rizen | perlDreamer i know about that and use it | 00:49 |
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| @rizen | but you can't do | 00:49 |
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| @rizen | quoteIdenetifier("fieldname = ?" | 00:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | s/(\S+)(\s*=)/$db->quoteIdentifier($1).$2/eg; | 00:50 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | hahha | 00:50 |
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| @rizen | nope | 00:50 |
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| @rizen | because they can do | 00:50 |
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| @preaction | fieldname= | 00:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | I _did_ say \s* in there | 00:51 |
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| @rizen | fieldname >= this or fieldname < that or fieldname in ('this', 'foo', 'bar') | 00:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | the '> | 00:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | character won't match | 00:51 |
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| @preaction | (\S+)\b(\s*(?:=|>|<|...)) | 00:51 |
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| @preaction | i hate it | 00:52 |
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| @preaction | SQL::Abstract! | 00:52 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, \b is the boundary between \S and \s | 00:52 |
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| @preaction | ah | 00:52 |
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| @preaction | don't need that then | 00:52 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | perlDreamer: so why won't what you have work for sanitizing? | 00:53 |
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| @preaction | or Parse::BooleanQuery maybe? | 00:53 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, a more general purpose solution will always be better than my regexp-of-the-day | 00:53 |
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| @rizen | folks you can stop, the answer IS NOT parsing | 00:54 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | well, there are only so many possible cases. a short parse tree could be created. | 00:54 |
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| @rizen | we either leave it raw SQL or we make a usable interface to pass in a usable datastructure | 00:54 |
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| @rizen | my goal IS NOT to rebuild DBIx::Class | 00:54 |
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| @rizen | RoseDB | 00:54 |
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| @rizen | or any of the other bs that's out there on CPAN that's both hard to use and slow | 00:55 |
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| @rizen | for now we'll leave it as is, and if we figure out a better way to do it, we'll deprecate the current mechanism and remove it in WebGUI 8 | 00:56 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | the join syntax can be narrowed down to a single case | 00:56 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | just allow left joins | 00:57 |
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| @rizen | are you saying just allow left joins with single equality? | 00:57 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | hmm, but there are a ton of conditionals | 00:57 |
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| @rizen | cuz i already only allow left joins | 00:57 |
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| @rizen | it's the equality issue that is a problem | 00:58 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | yeah, just realized that | 00:58 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | and there are quite a few possible conditionals. | 00:58 |
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| @rizen | i could very easily say tablename, fieldInTable, fieldInCrud | 00:58 |
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| @rizen | and we have a nice usable datastructure | 00:58 |
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| @rizen | that would build | 00:58 |
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| @rizen | left join tablename on tablename.fieldIntable = crudtable.fieldInCrud | 00:59 |
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| @rizen | i'm just not sure if that's good enough for our uses | 00:59 |
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| @rizen | preaction; for the record, these are the same issues i have with the joinClass and other related options in getLineage | 01:04 |
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| @rizen | there's a lot of sanity problems | 01:04 |
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| @rizen | quoting, table prefixing, etc | 01:04 |
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| @rizen | and in getLineage it's even worse because you also have to account for versioning | 01:04 |
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| lelelele | is it difficult to use this CMS if I don't know Perl? I know only PHP. | 02:14 |
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| SDuensin | Not at all. | 02:16 |
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| +perlDreamer | To _use_ WebGUI, you don't really have to know perl at all | 02:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | Just the language for the templates | 02:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | and macros | 02:19 |
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| SDuensin | Yep. Since the WRE hit the scene, it's become MUCH easier! | 02:20 |
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| patspam | rizen: I started using crud for something yesterday :) | 02:25 |
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| @rizen | oh yeah? and how did you find it to work? | 02:26 |
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| patspam | so far so good! | 02:26 |
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| SDuensin | Crud? Like database CRUD? | 02:26 |
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| @rizen | i've been using it for a couple weeks now on a special pb project | 02:26 |
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| @rizen | have 6 objects created so far | 02:26 |
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| * SDuensin is trying to learn Thingy. | 02:26 |
| @rizen | thingy should eventually use crud | 02:27 |
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| SDuensin | WTF is crud? | 02:27 |
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| @rizen | WebGUI::Crud | 02:27 |
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| @rizen | is a new thing in 7.6 | 02:27 |
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| patspam | cool. the only thing I've noticed so far that felt like it was missing was the ability to flag fields as required in definition() | 02:27 |
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| @rizen | that allows you to build database backed WebGUI objects | 02:27 |
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| SDuensin | Can you link and stuff like Thingy? | 02:28 |
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| @rizen | SD: it's a programmer's tool, not a UI tool | 02:28 |
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| * SDuensin is using 7.5.x, but could be convinced to go bleeding edge. :-) | 02:28 |
| SDuensin | Doh. | 02:28 |
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| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, think more of a generic object base class that handles db interactions | 02:28 |
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| * SDuensin is a programmer, but he's kinda busy and can't learn WebGUI's API just yet. | 02:28 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen, I need to borrow $600,000 US. | 02:28 |
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| @rizen | Thingy's backend should eventually use WebGUI::Crud | 02:28 |
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| SDuensin | Cool. | 02:28 |
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| SDuensin | Sounds very spiffy. | 02:28 |
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| @rizen | perlDreamer: uh.... | 02:29 |
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| @rizen | patspam: that's not a bad idea | 02:29 |
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| patspam | rizen: love how much boiler-plate code i didn't have to write. crud++ | 02:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | rizen, okay, how about just $500,000 and I'll give you free rides? | 02:32 |
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| @rizen | buying a helicopter pd? | 02:32 |
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| @rizen | or a train? | 02:32 |
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| +perlDreamer | No, a used steam engine | 02:32 |
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| +perlDreamer | :) | 02:32 |
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| SDuensin | Uh? | 02:32 |
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| @rizen | how about this, i'll lend you $6, then you just need 100,000 other people to do the same thing. =) | 02:32 |
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| +perlDreamer | hm. Just let me make a quick commit to the PayDriver code | 02:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | that should fix it | 02:33 |
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| @rizen | patspam: yeah, it's saving me an absolute ton of code too...but more importantly, as i've been building these objects it's giving me ideas for additional methods in WebGUI::Crud | 02:34 |
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| @rizen | like the $self->updateFromFormPost() method I added today | 02:34 |
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| SDuensin | Crap. I lost the Things I built. Wonder what I did? | 02:35 |
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| @rizen | SD: that big button that says "DELETE" don't hit that next time | 02:37 |
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| SDuensin | I think I somehow had a version tag with no Things in the Thingy and committed that on top the one I was working on. | 02:37 |
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| SDuensin | I think. | 02:37 |
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| SDuensin | Interesting. My missing Things are in the Default Thing dropdown in my empty Thingy. | 02:42 |
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| BartJol | so missing is actually misplaced? | 02:43 |
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| SDuensin | Seems that way. Connecting to MySQL now to poke around. | 02:43 |
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| BartJol | how does Thingy show it's empty? | 02:44 |
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| SDuensin | Well, before when I went to the page with the Thingy on it, it listed my Things. Now I just have "Add Thing". | 02:45 |
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| lelelele | how does it supports GUI? | 02:47 |
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| lelelele | I mean in website or has windows app for it? | 02:47 |
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| SDuensin | Interesting. I have two Thingy entries in the database that are the same except for the revision date. That's probably not right. | 02:48 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: it's a web app. go to http://demo.webgui.org | 02:48 |
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| @rizen | create a demo | 02:48 |
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| @rizen | then click on the getting started page | 02:48 |
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| BartJol | mmm, my server doesn't produce a page, nrestarting services | 02:48 |
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| BartJol | if it has done that, I'll try to reproduce SDuensin, I', running 7.6.1 | 02:49 |
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| SDuensin | Would a dump of my Thingy related tables help? | 02:50 |
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| BartJol | restarting takes awfully long.... | 02:50 |
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| BartJol | mmm, mysql can't connect | 02:52 |
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| BartJol | SDuensin: I don't know, it doesn't harm | 02:52 |
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| BartJol | but now I've got mu own problems | 02:53 |
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| BartJol | ... | 02:53 |
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| SDuensin | :-( | 02:54 |
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| SDuensin | Well, BartJol, if you want the dump, lemme know how you want it sent. It's not super-urgent or anything. | 02:56 |
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| BartJol | ok | 02:57 |
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| * SDuensin is just hoping to use Thingy to help rule the world. | 02:57 |
| BartJol | mysql.sock is missing | 02:57 |
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| BartJol | so I'll try to start or restart | 02:57 |
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| SDuensin | Be sure an /etc/mysql/my.cnf didn't slip in. Dang updates. | 02:58 |
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| BartJol | I seem to have a clean server | 02:59 |
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| BartJol | so no other mysql | 02:59 |
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| lelelele | I dont see any GUI. | 03:06 |
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| lelelele | Only a movie. | 03:06 |
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| lelelele | Simple menubar in that movie. Simple CMS, dunno where GUI is here? | 03:06 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: that movie is telling you how to see a gooey | 03:06 |
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| @rizen | GUI | 03:06 |
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| lelelele | I thought it will be javascript. | 03:07 |
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| @rizen | in your demo | 03:07 |
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| @rizen | log in | 03:07 |
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| lelelele | just to make feel of GUI in browser. | 03:07 |
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| @rizen | using admin 123qwe | 03:07 |
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| lelelele | 0k | 03:07 |
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| @rizen | then click the "turn admin on" link | 03:07 |
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| @rizen | the movie tells you to do exactly that | 03:07 |
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| @rizen | and yes, the GUI is javascript | 03:07 |
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| lelelele | ok | 03:07 |
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| lelelele | I am not so smart | 03:07 |
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| lelelele | to see the movie for getting the pass. | 03:07 |
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| lelelele | Would be easier to write on 5em those config infos | 03:08 |
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| lelelele | :) | 03:08 |
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| lelelele | for me as I dont like flash :) | 03:08 |
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| @rizen | not possible | 03:08 |
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| @rizen | you set the username and password wehn you create your demo | 03:08 |
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| @rizen | if you leave it to the default it is then admin 123qwe | 03:08 |
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| lelelele | so how you know my ones? | 03:08 |
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| lelelele | 0k | 03:08 |
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| @rizen | i'm guessing you left the default | 03:08 |
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| @rizen | but i can't predict that everyone will do that | 03:09 |
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| lelelele | duuno | 03:09 |
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| lelelele | I am logged in . | 03:09 |
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| @rizen | click the "turn admin on" link | 03:09 |
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| lelelele | huh? | 03:10 |
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| @rizen | you said you are logged in | 03:10 |
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| @rizen | are you? | 03:10 |
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| lelelele | actually I am not sorry. | 03:10 |
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| lelelele | admin 123qwe ? | 03:10 |
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| @rizen | if you left the defaults | 03:11 |
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| @rizen | then yes that's the username and password | 03:11 |
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| lelelele | Cause there are no info about that. Dunno how people know that it is default. | 03:11 |
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| BartJol | it is quite findasble on the site | 03:11 |
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| @rizen | ok lelelele let's start from scratch because i don't think you were paying attention when you created your demo | 03:11 |
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| lelelele | what you mean about default? Design part? No, I uploaded photo for logo, and changed color. | 03:11 |
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| @rizen | i'll give you step by step directions | 03:11 |
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| lelelele | 0k | 03:11 |
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| @rizen | don't derivate even a little bit | 03:11 |
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| lelelele | 0k | 03:11 |
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| @rizen | do exactly what i say | 03:11 |
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| lelelele | 0k | 03:11 |
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| @rizen | 1) go to http://demo.webgui.org | 03:12 |
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| @rizen | 2) click "Create my personal webgui demo" | 03:12 |
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| lelelele | rizen : I am logged in | 03:12 |
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| lelelele | used your pass | 03:12 |
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| lelelele | I turned admin 0n. | 03:12 |
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| BartJol | while restarting mysql, a new socket should be created, right? | 03:13 |
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| @rizen | yes bartjol | 03:14 |
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| BartJol | mmm, something is awfully wrong then | 03:14 |
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| @rizen | is there anything in your /data/wre/var/mysqldata/servernamegoeshere.err file? | 03:15 |
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| @rizen | it usually tells you what's wrong | 03:15 |
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| lelelele | rizen : works fine | 03:15 |
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| lelelele | did you do this CMS? | 03:15 |
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| BartJol | 081104 2:15:26 [Warning] option 'max_join_size': unsigned value 18446744073709551615 adjusted to 4294967295 | 03:15 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: yes, i founded it, but many people have worked on it since then | 03:16 |
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| @rizen | BartJol: warnings don't count usually | 03:16 |
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| @rizen | BartJol: look for serious stuff | 03:16 |
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| SDuensin | BartJol - If you check the cnf, it's set to 4294967295. Go figure. | 03:16 |
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| lelelele | rizen: whas is the date of foundation, I want to count birthdays of WebGUI since that date. | 03:16 |
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| lelelele | maybe you remember exact day? | 03:16 |
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| @rizen | webgui is 7 years old | 03:17 |
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| lelelele | wow | 03:17 |
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| @rizen | i started development on it in June 2001 | 03:17 |
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| lelelele | I thought it was new. | 03:17 |
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| @rizen | and it's first release to the public is August 16, 2001 | 03:17 |
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| lelelele | nice. So why such small community? | 03:17 |
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| @rizen | it's not a small community | 03:17 |
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| BartJol | ah, can't create a PID file | 03:17 |
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| lelelele | 26 | 03:17 |
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| lelelele | ... | 03:17 |
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| SDuensin | It's "small" because it doesn't run on $5 web hosts. | 03:17 |
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| @rizen | there are more than 10,000 sites running webgui | 03:17 |
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| lelelele | I mean node community. | 03:17 |
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| BartJol | lelelele: and there's even a dutch guy online | 03:18 |
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| BartJol | on this time | 03:18 |
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| lelelele | wow | 03:18 |
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| lelelele | I am LT guy | 03:18 |
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| SDuensin | LT? | 03:18 |
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| lelelele | so OK what I need to test this . | 03:18 |
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| lelelele | Lithuania. yes. | 03:18 |
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| lelelele | I have Apache. | 03:18 |
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| @rizen | WebGUI is primarily used by businesses, not home users | 03:18 |
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| lelelele | what a difference it is CMS. | 03:18 |
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| lelelele | for me all CMS is just CMS. | 03:19 |
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| lelelele | all plenty of not flexibility. | 03:19 |
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| SDuensin | It's the BEST CMS EVER! | 03:19 |
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| lelelele | so I am testing them one after another. | 03:19 |
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| lelelele | last time I tested Drupal. | 03:19 |
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| * SDuensin learned the hard way. He strayed. Never again! | 03:19 |
| lelelele | Very annoying one... | 03:19 |
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| lelelele | The hard thing with CMS is that they are not flexible. I found this one in matrix | 03:20 |
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| BartJol | lelelele: darn, I'be only been to Estonia | 03:20 |
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| SDuensin | I ran Joomla and Drupal. Bad idea. | 03:20 |
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| lelelele | there were many Yes'es written on it. And that word "GUI" though it is not GUI. | 03:20 |
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| lelelele | GUI is win app. | 03:20 |
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| lelelele | javascript can be GUI but many job to do it. | 03:21 |
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| SDuensin | Doesn't have to be. | 03:21 |
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| lelelele | better java. ;) | 03:21 |
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| BartJol | well, deleting an old webgui and wre tar helped | 03:21 |
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| BartJol | Koen just assigned me not enough disc space... | 03:21 |
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| SDuensin | ACK! | 03:22 |
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| BartJol | now it work again | 03:22 |
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| * SDuensin cheers for BartJol | 03:22 |
| lelelele | SDuensin: how you started with WebGUI? | 03:22 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: webgui is so powerful that it actually runs the CMS Matrix | 03:22 |
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| lelelele | wow | 03:22 |
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| lelelele | really | 03:22 |
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| @rizen | yup | 03:22 |
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| @rizen | go to cmsmatrix.org | 03:22 |
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| lelelele | so all those intro page about most clicks is a fake :( | 03:22 |
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| @rizen | and do a view source | 03:22 |
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| @rizen | you'll see a meta tag that says the page is generated using webgui | 03:22 |
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| lelelele | I found WebGUI from that intro page from those "most clicks". | 03:23 |
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| SDuensin | lelelele - I just stumbled on it years ago. Foolishly tried other programs. Almost back to 100% WebGUI. | 03:23 |
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| lelelele | 0k | 03:23 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: no...we don't touch the site. we just let it run | 03:23 |
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| BartJol | ACK, awfully cumulated kunbicles? | 03:23 |
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| @rizen | we were the first site on the list, and we have the most clicks because we've been there from day one, and are the best | 03:23 |
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| SDuensin | I fell in love with the 5.x series. 6.x had some growing pains. Now I'm back, baby! | 03:23 |
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| lelelele | let's assume that WebGUI is so powerful and GUI is so good dev'ed that noone needs to come to smth like #drupal-support for asking "how to change theme". | 03:23 |
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| lelelele | so that is why we are here only some devs and lovers. | 03:24 |
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| lelelele | of WebGUI. | 03:24 |
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| BartJol | SDuensin: ok back to your Thingy problem | 03:24 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: you'd have to be in the community a while to understand | 03:24 |
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| BartJol | I'll open my db | 03:25 |
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| @rizen | the number of people in an IRC channel does not mean you have a good or big community | 03:25 |
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| @rizen | it just means you have a lot of people in IRC or not | 03:25 |
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| SDuensin | lelelele, like I said, it takes a bit more power to run WebGUI. All the kids with $5 a month web hosts can't install it. | 03:25 |
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| SDuensin | BartJol - How do you want me to send my dump over? | 03:25 |
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| lelelele | rizen: I want to start. I have Drupal configured easily. I configured commercial PHP/MySQL/WinApp easily. Hope my Apache/MySQL server is enough for installing WebGUI? | 03:25 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: no, you need the WebGUI Runtime Environment (WRE) | 03:26 |
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| lelelele | Also Perl community forces me to learn Perl not PHP :)) | 03:26 |
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| SDuensin | Yes. WRE! | 03:26 |
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| lelelele | but that is not the most important :) | 03:26 |
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| Radix-wrk | WRE rocks | 03:26 |
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| f00li5h | lelelele: still trolling php, i see | 03:26 |
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| lelelele | WRE reminds me JRE rofl. | 03:26 |
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| lelelele | :))) | 03:26 |
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| Radix-wrk | or even easier.. use the vmware appliance | 03:26 |
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| BartJol | SDuensin: I'm studying the tables | 03:27 |
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| BartJol | ; | 03:27 |
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| lelelele | you mean my output website will have smth like JRE? Without WRE costumers won't see the website? | 03:27 |
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| f00li5h | wut | 03:27 |
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| lelelele | f00li5h : wow you are here too. | 03:27 |
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| lelelele | Gosh, so you are dev of WebGUI? | 03:28 |
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| f00li5h | I am everywhere | 03:28 |
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| BartJol | hee Radix_ good morning | 03:28 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: no: the WRE is a server-side thing...users don't need it | 03:28 |
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| @rizen | just the server | 03:28 |
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| SDuensin | lelelele - The WRE is all the software you need to run WebGUI. | 03:28 |
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| Radix-wrk | WRE is a preconfigured MySQL, Apache, Perl, Webgui setup - ready to go and optimised | 03:28 |
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| lelelele | rizen: ok for my localhost it is ok, what about my ISP? | 03:28 |
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| lelelele | he will not like idea about WRE. | 03:28 |
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| lelelele | I mean hosting . | 03:28 |
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| @rizen | then you probably can't run webgui | 03:28 |
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| @rizen | the server runs the WRE | 03:28 |
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| lelelele | I see :( | 03:29 |
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| lelelele | Anyway for localhost that will be fun to try out. | 03:29 |
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| BartJol | SDuensin: did you assign a default Thing? | 03:29 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: don't bother installing it, just use the demo | 03:29 |
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| Radix-wrk | hopefully soon it'll be as easy as apt-get install webgui (on debian at least) | 03:29 |
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| SDuensin | BartJol - Yea | 03:29 |
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| Radix-wrk | BartJol, morning :) | 03:30 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: what do you want to see by installing it that you can't figure out by using the demo? | 03:30 |
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| SDuensin | Radix-wrk - That would make my day. | 03:30 |
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| Radix-wrk | SDuensin, mine too :) | 03:30 |
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| lelelele | rizen: I begin thinking that WRE is smth like PHP (server side). | 03:31 |
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| @rizen | yes lelelele | 03:31 |
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| lelelele | hmmm | 03:31 |
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| BartJol | SDuensin: if you can give me some rows of Thing and the Thingy that holds it, that might give me some starting info | 03:32 |
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| BartJol | say limit 10 on th e first one | 03:32 |
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| SDuensin | I dumped just the Thingy-related stuff. It's short. Like 12k. | 03:32 |
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| BartJol | keep in mind that it's half past 2 here | 03:32 |
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| SDuensin | hehee | 03:32 |
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| BartJol | in paste bin? | 03:32 |
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| SDuensin | Sure. | 03:32 |
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| lelelele | rizen: WRE is a language like PHP? Or just menubar CMS? | 03:32 |
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| lelelele | BartJol: in my place it is half past 4 | 03:33 |
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| @rizen | WRE= Perl + Apache + MySQL + Image Magick | 03:33 |
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| -!- carogra1 [n=Caroline@c-76-24-169-61.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #webgui | 03:33 |
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| BartJol | lelelele: I know | 03:33 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: http://www.plainblack.com/tbb/the-case-for-the-wre | 03:33 |
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| lelelele | what about security rizen? | 03:34 |
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| SDuensin | BartJol - http://webgui.pastebin.com/m31b76002 | 03:34 |
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| lelelele | I mean big number operations (shutting down server). | 03:34 |
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| lelelele | PHP handles it by default don't allow too much for scripters. | 03:34 |
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| lelelele | Perl has sandboxes like Java do? | 03:34 |
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| BartJol | found it | 03:34 |
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| BartJol | the dump that is | 03:34 |
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| SDuensin | lelelele - mod_perl has limits like mod_php. It won't run off with your server. | 03:34 |
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| BartJol | not the problem | 03:35 |
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| lelelele | good. | 03:35 |
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| lelelele | 0k. I assume it is very good thing. | 03:35 |
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| SDuensin | lelelele, WebGUI makes everything else look like a toy. | 03:36 |
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| SDuensin | Like rizen said, create a demo account and play with it. | 03:36 |
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| f00li5h | rizen: well, i'm convinced ;) | 03:36 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o Haarg] by ChanServ | 03:37 |
| dionak | i've been convinced by the wre too. it makes it super simple to setup webgui, as rizen mentions in his post | 03:38 |
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| SDuensin | First time I set up WebGUI, I *compiled* *everything*. Talk about "fun"! | 03:39 |
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| Radix-wrk | heh.. been there, done that too ;) | 03:39 |
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| Radix-wrk | I went to great lengths to set up a debian server with webgui - worked great, except I remember getting wierd errors that PB couldn't duplicate.. not big ones, but wierd. Some interaction of perl modules of differing versions caused it. Since switching to the WRE everything has been rock solid stable. | 03:41 |
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| SDuensin | I run WRE on Ubuntu. It's a rock. (Which is the opposite of a brick.) | 03:42 |
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| Radix-wrk | [root@webgui ~]# uptime | 03:43 |
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| Radix-wrk | 10:42:39 up 172 days, 21:33, 1 user, load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.01 | 03:43 |
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| SDuensin | Yea. Mine is like 6 hours. I updated the OS today. :-) | 03:43 |
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| Radix-wrk | not too bad.. think the last time I shut it down was when we reorganised the server room | 03:43 |
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| lelelele | speed.... what about speed comparing PHP/MySQL running Apache, and WRE/MySQL/Perl website/database? | 03:44 |
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| lelelele | in percents please. My company website is pretty slow with Apache/PHP/MySQL. | 03:44 |
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| Radix-wrk | Assets:5600 | 03:44 |
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| Radix-wrk | Packages:3 | 03:44 |
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| Radix-wrk | Templates:288 | 03:44 |
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| Radix-wrk | Active Sessions:840 | 03:44 |
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| Radix-wrk | Users:11147 | 03:44 |
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| Radix-wrk | Groups:1276 | 03:45 |
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| SDuensin | Can't provide percents. Depends too much on your machine, OS, etc. | 03:45 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: it's not enough to just say perl vs php. because the code running it is different | 03:45 |
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| SDuensin | But it's fast. I run about 18 sites on a low-end server. | 03:45 |
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| BartJol | mmm, SDuensin, I'm afriad it will cost me some time on a more awake and sober moment to work this out, but at the moment the only thing I see that a Thingy_3VuQpp2ZL7Mr5RyLIR7pag is created but, I don't see a relation | 03:45 |
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| Radix-wrk | how can you compare speed realistically? | 03:45 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: what i can tell you is, that WebGUI runs 300% faster on the WRE than it does on native Apache, MySQL packages that come with Red Hat Enterprise Linux | 03:45 |
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| SDuensin | BartJol - Just not sure what caused it to happen. It was fine. I committed a version tag and it blew up. | 03:46 |
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| lelelele | wow rizen, amazing numbers. | 03:46 |
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| BartJol | how's your disc space, it solved my problems 10 minutes ago :) | 03:46 |
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| SDuensin | rizen - Red Hat *finally* fixed their annoying Perl bug. About time. | 03:47 |
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| @rizen | SD yeah, i read about that | 03:47 |
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| SDuensin | Last time I ran Red Hat was before the big change to libc. That's been forever! | 03:48 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: one other thing to consider. a Plain Black employee can install WebGUI using native packages in about 2 hours. or can install WebGUI using the WRE in about 7 minutes | 03:48 |
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| lelelele | rizen: I still dont like admin panel. | 03:48 |
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| SDuensin | lelelele - Why? | 03:48 |
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| lelelele | it is not fast for company to use admin panel online. Why dont you make app for windows? | 03:49 |
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| lelelele | and then export/update database online. | 03:49 |
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| SDuensin | Because a huge part of the world can't stand Windows. :-) | 03:49 |
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| Radix-wrk | not everyone uses windows | 03:49 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: because that only covers windows | 03:49 |
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| @rizen | then we'd need to build an interface for mac, linux, iphones, blackberry's, etc | 03:50 |
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| SDuensin | I'm guessing Windows is the minority here. :-) | 03:50 |
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| @rizen | that's a lot of work | 03:50 |
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| Radix-wrk | I like being able to log into the website from anywhere in the world on any pc and be able to edit/update the website, publish changes, etc | 03:50 |
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| BartJol | SDuensin: my thingy doesn't seem to create a Thingy_id table | 03:50 |
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| SDuensin | Radix-wrk - Agreed. | 03:50 |
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| SDuensin | BartJol - That dump is from 7.5.31. | 03:51 |
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| Radix-wrk | in fact we have users all over the world who do that for our website | 03:51 |
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| SDuensin | 31? 30? | 03:51 |
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| SDuensin | 31 | 03:51 |
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| SDuensin | :-) | 03:51 |
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| lelelele | any CMS does the same `being able` from any place in the world. | 03:51 |
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| BartJol | mmm, I don't have a site I can't fiddle around with from that version | 03:51 |
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| BartJol | only have 7.6.1 | 03:51 |
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| lelelele | for company the speed of database changing is important too. | 03:52 |
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| lelelele | Sure it is not a problem, as we admins can easily make it on localhost and export database. | 03:52 |
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| lelelele | but it is not meant to be so. | 03:52 |
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| Radix-wrk | lelelele, but as soon as you force people to install an application to be able to edit it, then it provides an entry requirement and locks people out | 03:52 |
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| SDuensin | Is your connection that slow, lelelele? Why do you want it local? | 03:52 |
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| Radix-wrk | and makes it harder to change on the fly | 03:52 |
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| SDuensin | It WebGUI required Windows to use it, I'd not be here. | 03:53 |
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| Radix-wrk | neither would PB ;) | 03:53 |
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| SDuensin | hehe | 03:53 |
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| BartJol | oh, and prolly I will will be bothering you tomorrow night too, I'll try to stay awake during elections | 03:53 |
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| Radix-wrk | they all use macs there from what I've seen | 03:53 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: if you're looking for something that installs local then webgui isn't for you | 03:53 |
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| SDuensin | I use a Mac laptop, but that's for the UNIX, not the GUI. | 03:53 |
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| SDuensin | My new business is based entirely on Linux and WebGUI. | 03:54 |
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| SDuensin | :-) | 03:54 |
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| * SDuensin has Gooey sitting on a speaker watching him work. | 03:54 |
| * Radix-wrk wonders where his Gooey dolls are. | 03:54 |
| lelelele | rizen : I have nice database win app, and I compare all CMS (1Mgbit connection) with my PC database in winapp. | 03:54 |
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| lelelele | Believe me the speed of changing database is just as comparing lightning with dunno what. | 03:55 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: that's fine, webgui isn't for everybody | 03:55 |
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| @rizen | lelelele: webgui is the best cms out there for more than 10,000 businesses, but it may not be the best cms for your business | 03:55 |
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| lelelele | No I still use company website with PHP/MySQL. | 03:55 |
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| lelelele | it would be best if we re-programmed old website. | 03:56 |
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| lelelele | But it is total impossible... we using tables and many programmed modules. | 03:56 |
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| SDuensin | I wish I knew what I did to the Thingy. I really want to use it. | 03:56 |
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| lelelele | too expensive to program new modules on Perl. | 03:56 |
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| BartJol | sorry SDuensin, I feel my eyelids dropping down | 03:57 |
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| BartJol | darn gravity | 03:57 |
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| SDuensin | BartJol - That's fine BartJol. Go rest! :-) I can just delete and start over. | 03:57 |
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| SDuensin | (And be more careful!) | 03:57 |
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| BartJol | with what? | 03:57 |
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| BartJol | gooeys? | 03:58 |
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| BartJol | or thingy? | 03:58 |
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| SDuensin | Thingy. Delete them. | 03:58 |
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| BartJol | :) | 03:58 |
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| BartJol | I don't really use them (yet) | 03:58 |
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| Radix-wrk | So on different topic... We've got a famous horse race going on in Australia in a couple of hours.. and I understand there's a similar horse race going on in the USA soon too? :) | 03:59 |
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| BartJol | horses? We only have cow and other cattle races | 04:00 |
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| Radix-wrk | heh.. we race everything here.. even cane toad races | 04:00 |
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| * SDuensin has no idea | 04:00 |
| BartJol | do horses also have those build-in handbags, like all australian animals? | 04:01 |
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| BartJol | arg, my sense off humor is deteriorating | 04:01 |
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| SDuensin | hehe | 04:02 |
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| @rizen | bartjol: do you have a sense of humor? | 04:02 |
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| lelelele | rizen: WYSIWYG editor is superb. Javascript tabber principle is my favorite idea for CMS. | 04:03 |
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| BartJol | rizen: yeah, I do, only yours is so bad, that you don't notice, almost a female-male miscommunication | 04:04 |
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| lelelele | pretty fast loading images from javascript. | 04:04 |
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| BartJol | unfortunately, I would be the female... | 04:04 |
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| @rizen | bartjol: i had mine surgically removed at birth | 04:04 |
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| BartJol | and you try to judge mine? | 04:04 |
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| BartJol | in the netherland, we have a proverb for it | 04:05 |
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| BartJol | it's schoenmaker, blijf bij je leest | 04:05 |
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| BartJol | which means something like | 04:05 |
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| BartJol | shoemaker, stay with your shoe making tools | 04:06 |
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| BartJol | so "rizen: shut up and start programming would be a good equivalent" | 04:07 |
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| BartJol | rizen: you looked really qute in your joker outfit | 04:08 |
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| lelelele | BartJol: how much did you smoke today? | 04:08 |
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| lelelele | your Netherlands proverbs seems to be made from smoking narcotics. | 04:09 |
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| BartJol | only plain tabacco | 04:09 |
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| lelelele | I smoked tabacco too but I am not so rude. | 04:09 |
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| lelelele | Are you m/f? | 04:09 |
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| BartJol | lelelele: no we sell everything to france people to keep them a bit relaxed | 04:09 |
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| lelelele | :)) | 04:09 |
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| @rizen | BartJol is not rude, he's my wife's Dutch boyfriend | 04:10 |
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| lelelele | oh.... | 04:10 |
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| BartJol | and I try to adjust to rizens way off talking, so he understands | 04:10 |
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| lelelele | I see. | 04:10 |
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| lelelele | Denmark... | 04:10 |
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| lelelele | They are smart too. | 04:10 |
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| BartJol | yeah, that's a very usefull remark... Denmark | 04:11 |
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| BartJol | now I'm getting rude | 04:11 |
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| -!- Netsplit over, joins: @perlmonkey2, carogray1 | 04:11 |
| lelelele | huh? | 04:12 |
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| BartJol | and I type too much for being stoned, and believe me, I've got experience | 04:12 |
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| lelelele | D | 04:12 |
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| SDuensin | hehe | 04:12 |
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| lelelele | Dutch == Denmark, what's wrong bart? | 04:12 |
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| @rizen | Danish == Denmark | 04:13 |
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| @rizen | Dutch = Holland | 04:13 |
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| BartJol | or even better "the Netherlands" | 04:13 |
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| lelelele | What a difference, I heared in Netherlands they are mostly from Holland. | 04:13 |
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| lelelele | Even speak Dutch language mostly. | 04:14 |
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| lelelele | whoops or maybe I misunderstood the words. | 04:14 |
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| BartJol | lelelele: you might, it's a quarter past 4 for you | 04:15 |
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| lelelele | 4:14 | 04:15 |
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| BartJol | and you type quite good for this time | 04:15 |
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| lelelele | must sleep:( | 04:15 |
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| lelelele | no really I mistype too much. | 04:15 |
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| BartJol | I'm free tomorrow | 04:15 |
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| lelelele | I not only chat with you but also try to test demo online of WebGUI | 04:15 |
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| BartJol | mwahhahaha | 04:15 |
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| lelelele | hard to concenctrate | 04:15 |
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| lelelele | no need | 04:15 |
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| lelelele | I just tested | 04:16 |
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| lelelele | it is not for me sadly. | 04:16 |
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| lelelele | I will concentrate on making my own php CMS... | 04:16 |
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| lelelele | I feel to bad in all CMS'es... | 04:16 |
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| lelelele | My ideas too many for any CMS out there. Every idea has to add some functions... | 04:16 |
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| lelelele | etc u know... | 04:17 |
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| BartJol | some people here might consider PHP as a curse around here | 04:17 |
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| lelelele | ok see you | 04:17 |
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| lelelele | no not really | 04:17 |
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| BartJol | I don't | 04:17 |
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| lelelele | Perl would be good too but I am newbie | 04:17 |
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| lelelele | so began on PHP... | 04:17 |
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| BartJol | hee, I'm a newbie, don't have php experience | 04:18 |
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| lelelele | i was total newbie just 2008-05-15 | 04:18 |
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| lelelele | on that date I decided to know what does all words like HTTP/CSS means | 04:18 |
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| BartJol | that;s a year or 2 less than me | 04:18 |
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| lelelele | and at the moment I pretty much tested, even ran calculator in JRE JAVA environment | 04:18 |
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| lelelele | some Python scripts. PHP becomes comfortable. HTML tags easy. | 04:19 |
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| lelelele | I mean it is easy to learn nowadays. | 04:19 |
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| lelelele | No need of school. Only one bad thing is IRC. | 04:19 |
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| lelelele | But communication is the key of success :) | 04:19 |
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| BartJol | and I am just learning to program (coo)l stuff | 04:19 |
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| lelelele | I will catch you . | 04:19 |
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| @preaction | i've always felt that dedication and hard work are the keys to success | 04:19 |
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| lelelele | actually they are. | 04:20 |
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| lelelele | But for newbie. | 04:20 |
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| BartJol | most work for me was with tranlating | 04:20 |
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| lelelele | It was big school to get all around, to smell technologies. | 04:20 |
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| lelelele | Now I am enough with google and some .net portals of learning. | 04:20 |
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| lelelele | but node community is always very nice to come back. | 04:21 |
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| lelelele | just to look `is there any easy thing invented yet?` and again: No go learn hard way if you want become master. | 04:21 |
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| BartJol | is "Tere" also lithuanian? | 04:22 |
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| lelelele | And if to use free CMS it is no nice at all. | 04:22 |
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| lelelele | I can make html website as fast as with CMS. | 04:22 |
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| lelelele | I need many functions in portal, but those functions so different from what CMS gives today, that I must learn program/code myself. | 04:23 |
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| SDuensin | Not with forums, user management, etc. | 04:23 |
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| lelelele | sure | 04:23 |
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| lelelele | But for those was eBulletin | 04:23 |
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| lelelele | very nice one long time ago, why Drupal etc came ? Was enough of that one too. | 04:23 |
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| SDuensin | I like everything to be integrated. One account. | 04:23 |
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| lelelele | BartJol: no dunno what you mean. | 04:24 |
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| BartJol | lelelele: it means hi and goodbye in estonian | 04:24 |
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| lelelele | BartJol: in Lituanian for `hi` is "labas" and for `goodbye` is "iki" | 04:25 |
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| lelelele | spelling is without english accent though. | 04:26 |
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| lelelele | i is i, not ai. | 04:26 |
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| lelelele | :) | 04:26 |
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| BartJol | I'll try to remember, allthough it's hopeless at this time | 04:26 |
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| lelelele | a is a, not ei :) | 04:26 |
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| BartJol | ok, Dutch pronounciation is quite similar than | 04:26 |
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| lelelele | that is good ;) | 04:27 |
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| BartJol | s/than/then/ | 04:27 |
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| BartJol | nearest to Lithuania I've beenm was Parnu | 04:28 |
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| lelelele | rizen: I got idea for your new project. Make such a CMS, that from beginning would go configuration/installation of modules what we need to use. E.G. Installing what we need like import images module, changing with Search menubar, sorting database in meny ways, etc. | 04:28 |
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| BartJol | nice beach there | 04:28 |
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| lelelele | That way I could easily add modules which I need. And also translate to my own language. It will look completly cool feeling for users of database inside CMS. Cause they will feel in native CMS which I made. | 04:29 |
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| @rizen | so your idea is that i should build exactly what you need? | 04:30 |
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| lelelele | At the moment it looks ordinary CMS with many things not needed etc etc if you know what I mean. If you ever seen simple CMS made for company needs in native language of course. | 04:30 |
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| @rizen | the way you want it built? | 04:30 |
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| lelelele | yes | 04:30 |
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| lelelele | sure why not | 04:30 |
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| lelelele | like constructor | 04:30 |
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| lelelele | install module | 04:30 |
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| lelelele | delete module | 04:30 |
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| lelelele | smth like that | 04:30 |
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| lelelele | or you mean I can configure that too for certain users like in Drupal? | 04:30 |
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| @rizen | i have a better idea... i'm logging off for the night | 04:30 |
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| BartJol | lelelele: you can choose to not use modules you don't need | 04:30 |
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| -!- rizen [n=rizen@h69-128-55-18.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit ["The Black Blog - http://plainblack.com/tbb"] | 04:31 |
| @preaction | you can also choose to remove modules you don't want | 04:31 |
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| lelelele | preaction: ok ;) | 04:31 |
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| BartJol | or disable is a better word | 04:31 |
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| lelelele | rizen is cool . | 04:31 |
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| lelelele | I liked him at first sight :) | 04:31 |
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| lelelele | today :) | 04:31 |
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| @preaction | i believe the feeling is mutual even | 04:31 |
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| BartJol | His couch is nice to | 04:32 |
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| BartJol | o | 04:32 |
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| lelelele | BartJol hello | 04:32 |
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| @preaction | his old couch was nicer, that's why i have it now | 04:32 |
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| lelelele | preaction hello | 04:32 |
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| BartJol | preaction: can I sleep at your place next year? | 04:33 |
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| BartJol | the old one was better indeed | 04:33 |
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| @preaction | BartJol, i'm almost 2 hours away from madison, so no | 04:33 |
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| lelelele | hmmm | 04:33 |
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| @preaction | i'd have to be at least 3 hours away to allow you to sleep here | 04:34 |
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| lelelele | you both said His in my script it meant to be "Hi*" | 04:34 |
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| lelelele | so it was script which said hello to you both :) | 04:34 |
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| @preaction | i'd turn off that script, like now | 04:34 |
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| lelelele | what you mean couch :D | 04:35 |
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| lelelele | ok I will turn off. | 04:35 |
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| BartJol | well, I slept at JT's hoem | 04:35 |
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| lelelele | so you talk about bed? | 04:35 |
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| BartJol | home | 04:35 |
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| BartJol | no | 04:35 |
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| lelelele | dunno | 04:36 |
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| BartJol | the thing you can sit on with a couple of persons | 04:36 |
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| BartJol | bench? | 04:36 |
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| @preaction | sofa | 04:36 |
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| @preaction | davenport | 04:36 |
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| lelelele | so you are here | 04:36 |
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| lelelele | like sleeping together ? | 04:36 |
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| lelelele | some of you? | 04:36 |
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| BartJol | no, I was in august | 04:37 |
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| lelelele | you was BartJol (what you were?) and (with who?) | 04:37 |
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| BartJol | JT his wife promised that I could sleep with her, and she would kick him, out | 04:37 |
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| BartJol | I was alone :( | 04:37 |
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| BartJol | JT=rizen | 04:38 |
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| lelelele | oh... | 04:38 |
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| lelelele | rizen is m/f? | 04:38 |
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| BartJol | m/f? | 04:38 |
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| lelelele | i thought it was male. | 04:38 |
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| lelelele | yes, sex? | 04:38 |
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| BartJol | he is male | 04:38 |
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| BartJol | I am too | 04:39 |
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| lelelele | 0k | 04:39 |
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| lelelele | 0k | 04:39 |
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| BartJol | his wife isn't | 04:39 |
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| lelelele | 0k | 04:39 |
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| lelelele | BartJol hello | 04:39 |
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| lelelele | whoops again stupid script. | 04:39 |
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| BartJol | mmm | 04:39 |
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| lelelele | don't use word "his". | 04:39 |
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| BartJol | I'll just finish mu smoke and wodka, then I'll go to bed | 04:40 |
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| lelelele | I cannot go to menubar in my mIRC and turn off. cause I turned off menubar and dunno how to show menubar again. | 04:40 |
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| lelelele | I dranked two beers | 04:40 |
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| lelelele | dont want to smoke at the moment, I just am in my bad all the time with laptop. | 04:40 |
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| BartJol | I top that | 04:40 |
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| BartJol | bad is bath or bed? | 04:41 |
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| lelelele | bed | 04:41 |
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| lelelele | :)) | 04:41 |
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| lelelele | laptop on bath hah | 04:41 |
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| lelelele | would be smth new... | 04:41 |
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| BartJol | ok, otherwise I'll had too warn you for the dangers | 04:41 |
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| lelelele | :)) | 04:41 |
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| lelelele | 0k | 04:42 |
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| lelelele | tell me more | 04:42 |
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| lelelele | about that wife | 04:42 |
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| lelelele | you share same woman with r? | 04:42 |
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| BartJol | not really | 04:42 |
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| lelelele | rizen claimed you are. | 04:42 |
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| BartJol | she just called me her boyfriend | 04:43 |
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| BartJol | and that she would move to here to form my harem | 04:43 |
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| BartJol | but she didn't | 04:43 |
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| lelelele | :: | 04:43 |
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| BartJol | to make it up she wants to couple me to a friend of hers | 04:43 |
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| lelelele | WOW | 04:43 |
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| lelelele | :) | 04:43 |
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| lelelele | Interesting... | 04:44 |
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| lelelele | I have girlfriend too | 04:44 |
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| BartJol | yeah, nice a girlfriend 3000 miles from here | 04:44 |
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| BartJol | but his wife is nice to hangout with | 04:45 |
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| lelelele | but she is blond and doesn't use irc, or understand anything about html etc, she just use some final php products for communication, those slow ones...and plays some very old games :) | 04:45 |
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| lelelele | we are different, cause I like codes, etc , she likes music :D | 04:45 |
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| BartJol | ah, I had one off those | 04:45 |
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| lelelele | you left her or she left you? | 04:46 |
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| lelelele | why? | 04:46 |
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| BartJol | not to be negative | 04:46 |
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| BartJol | well, we just hadn't enough "click" | 04:46 |
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| lelelele | heh yeah | 04:47 |
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| lelelele | that is painful | 04:47 |
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| BartJol | did like each other, and that the other pone had the intrest, but didn't share enough | 04:47 |
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| lelelele | pone? | 04:48 |
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| BartJol | one | 04:48 |
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| lelelele | hmmm | 04:48 |
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| BartJol | was a nice time though | 04:48 |
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| lelelele | she didnt like computers? | 04:48 |
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| lelelele | and your coding? | 04:48 |
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| BartJol | nope | 04:48 |
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| lelelele | she didnt like you sitting near computer when you together? | 04:49 |
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| BartJol | yeah, the fatal point was that she said: I don't like the way you indent in your code | 04:49 |
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| lelelele | you tried to explain her BroodWar strategy game rules but she said she wasnt interested at all to this difficult game? | 04:49 |
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| Radix-wrk | heh.. it's funny because you're thinking of BartJol as a computer nerd - and in rl he's not ;) | 04:49 |
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| lelelele | "intend in your code" ? | 04:50 |
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| BartJol | indent | 04:50 |
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| SDuensin | In real life he's supposed to be RESTING! :-P | 04:50 |
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| lelelele | ah .... | 04:50 |
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| lelelele | BartJol : so you are not geek. | 04:50 |
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| lelelele | like me :) | 04:50 |
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| BartJol | mm, that sounds like a comment for both of us lelelele | 04:50 |
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| BartJol | ok SDq | 04:50 |
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| BartJol | SDuensin: | 04:50 |
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| * Radix-wrk enjoyed many great belgian, dutch and german beers with BartJol when he was in Holland last year. | 04:51 |
| BartJol | and haring | 04:51 |
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| lelelele | wow | 04:51 |
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| Radix-wrk | hehe.. and Haring | 04:51 |
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| lelelele | I drink lithuanian beer mostly. | 04:51 |
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| lelelele | it is very good. | 04:51 |
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| lelelele | too:) | 04:51 |
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| lelelele | I suppose all beer is good in the world :) | 04:52 |
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| Radix-wrk | Beer is good | 04:52 |
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| BartJol | not all | 04:52 |
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| Radix-wrk | not all appeals to everyone | 04:52 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: are you a beer snob? | 04:52 |
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| BartJol | but the intention of beer is good | 04:52 |
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| BartJol | perlmonkey2: no, but even I have my limits | 04:52 |
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| Radix-wrk | Beer is liquid hope to the ugly. | 04:53 |
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| BartJol | like bud-light | 04:53 |
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| Radix-wrk | most light beers are crap tho really | 04:53 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | I love light beer | 04:53 |
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| BartJol | or doesn't that earns the label beer? | 04:53 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | you can drink it as long as you want and never get drunk | 04:53 |
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| Radix-wrk | perlmonkey2, really? why? | 04:53 |
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| * lelelele agrees perlmonkey2 | 04:53 |
| @perlmonkey2 | all the while enjoying frosty goodness | 04:54 |
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| lelelele | though I sometimes get drunk from light beer too. | 04:54 |
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| * f00li5h paws at perlmonkey2 | 04:54 |
| @perlmonkey2 | hey f00li5h :) | 04:54 |
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| f00li5h | perlmonkey2: how's things? | 04:54 |
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| lelelele | hi perlmonkey2 | 04:54 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | pretty groovy, about about you's? | 04:54 |
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| lelelele | f00li5h you are here again :)) | 04:54 |
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| BartJol | well, for drinking all day long it's good, but make sure it's chech something similar | 04:54 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | hello lelelele | 04:54 |
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| lelelele | hey perlmonkey2 | 04:55 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: Coors light :D | 04:55 |
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| BartJol | s drinking light beer is only allowed if you drink it all day | 04:55 |
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| f00li5h | lelelele: i had to go get milk... came back with $100 worth of food goods -_- | 04:55 |
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| lelelele | wow | 04:55 |
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| BartJol | perlmonkey2: mmmm, I am not rally sure whether I want to know you anymore | 04:56 |
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| lelelele | and we are trolling here in terms of perl channed node f00li5h | 04:56 |
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| lelelele | :)) | 04:56 |
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| lelelele | trollin about beer :)) | 04:56 |
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| lelelele | but doesn't matter, we are Europe time mostly I suppose, so we are a bit relaxed. | 04:56 |
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| Radix-wrk | you guys all php advocates or something? | 04:56 |
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| f00li5h | i wish i had european beer! | 04:56 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol => beeristocat | 04:56 |
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| BartJol | tomorrow the subject will prolly be elections | 04:56 |
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| SDuensin | BartJol - I hope not. I'm sick of it. | 04:57 |
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| Radix-wrk | Will you vote though - that's the question.. | 04:57 |
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| Radix-wrk | here we're forced to vote | 04:58 |
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| SDuensin | If I get home in time. | 04:58 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | forced to vote? how strange | 04:58 |
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| lelelele | f00li5h : I have one, would like to give it to you, for some food goods from your basket... | 04:58 |
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| Radix-wrk | if you don't vote you get fined | 04:58 |
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| BartJol | perlmonkey2: yeah yeah, go ahead with your impressive booming voice, but you'll have to talk louther if you want to get me shaking | 04:58 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | that is nuts | 04:58 |
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| SDuensin | They're all crooks though. Sucks having to pick the lesser of two evils. | 04:58 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: :P | 04:58 |
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| f00li5h | lelelele: you are going to give me food goods? | 04:58 |
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| Radix-wrk | voting occurs on a weekend tho - so everyone can do it.. and we have absentee voting if you're not able to make it to a polling booth on the day | 04:58 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: I can't be too scary if I like light beer | 04:58 |
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| f00li5h | lelelele: liquid breakfast! | 04:59 |
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| Radix-wrk | You guys are making me thirsty! | 04:59 |
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| lelelele | f00li5h : just one Lithuanian beer candle. | 04:59 |
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| lelelele | hah:) | 04:59 |
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| Radix-wrk | just going on lunchtime here too.. one hour before the big race | 04:59 |
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| lelelele | ok will be fine for my little sister f00li5h :) | 04:59 |
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| lelelele | I personally prefered some american chocolade :D | 05:00 |
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| f00li5h | american chocolate? | 05:00 |
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| lelelele | not snickers/rafaelo/etc what is plenty in Europe :) | 05:00 |
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| f00li5h | oh! i have british candy, does that count? | 05:00 |
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| Radix-wrk | belgian chocolates are the best | 05:00 |
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| lelelele | yes, smth like with ment | 05:00 |
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| lelelele | I know one very tasty | 05:00 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | okay, the best mass produced ale ever made, Sam Adams Boston | 05:00 |
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| lelelele | we dont have it here :) | 05:00 |
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| lelelele | menthol | 05:00 |
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| Radix-wrk | nor here | 05:01 |
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| BartJol | perlmonkey2: it's not the physical part, only the menatl one, that someone confinced you you like it, they can convince you of everything | 05:01 |
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| Radix-wrk | Little Creatures Pale Ale is a very nice local beer where I am ;) | 05:01 |
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| lelelele | ok | 05:01 |
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| lelelele | it was fantastic night with you | 05:01 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: I am a sheeple for beer, or more commonly know as a beeple. | 05:01 |
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| lelelele | but before I get up 10am | 05:01 |
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| lelelele | I need to sleep 5hours and counting | 05:02 |
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| lelelele | bye mates! | 05:02 |
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| BartJol | well, that's one lost soul | 05:02 |
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| SDuensin | hehe | 05:02 |
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| SDuensin | He has some technology issues to work out. :-) | 05:03 |
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| BartJol | allthough I got the feeling he liked us... | 05:03 |
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| SDuensin | How could you not!? | 05:03 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | if he is serious about his goals, he'll probably be back. | 05:03 |
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| BartJol | he even had a conversation with JT, and was not apalled with his "directness" | 05:04 |
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| Radix-wrk | heh | 05:04 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | wow, Obama is trading $9.10 for a $10 contract or 91% chance to win. | 05:05 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | seems like easy money | 05:05 |
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| BartJol | eeeh | 05:06 |
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| Radix-wrk | Does sound like he's won. But it all depends on who hits the polling booths on the day. | 05:06 |
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| BartJol | like, really buying people to vote for him? | 05:06 |
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| Radix-wrk | heh.. I suspect those are the odds for a bet | 05:07 |
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| BartJol | Radix-wrk: well, normally a democracy work like that, but in the USA? | 05:07 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: a contract market on who will win. | 05:07 |
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| BartJol | like a bet? | 05:07 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | McCain is trading at $.90 for a $10 contract | 05:08 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | yes, except they call it a market contract | 05:08 |
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| BartJol | that's horrible that it is even legal | 05:08 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | you are trading $10 contracts that pay 0 if the terms fail or $10 if they meet. | 05:08 |
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| Radix-wrk | In the USA - anything is possible.. heck it's possible for a young black boy to turn into an old white woman. (Michael Jackson) | 05:08 |
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| SDuensin | It's like a football pool. | 05:08 |
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| BartJol | yeah, that is given me a lot of trust on US politics... | 05:11 |
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| BartJol | s/is/has/ | 05:11 |
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| * SDuensin is in the USA. Imagine the trust he has. | 05:11 |
| Radix-wrk | heh | 05:12 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | the system is horribly broken. | 05:12 |
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| SDuensin | And massively corrupt. | 05:13 |
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| BartJol | Dutch politics isn't all that, don't get strange ideas about that, but I think I've got more choice than in the US | 05:13 |
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| Radix-wrk | http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2008-11-03.gif | 05:14 |
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| BartJol | but it is always choosing between a vaginal douche and a turd sandwich... | 05:14 |
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| SDuensin | Hey, I don't remember you guys starting a war to protect your personal oil interests. Can't be THAT bad. | 05:15 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: Oh come on, we have a Chicago Politician (a pejorative) or a Good ol boy Republican (also a perjorative) to choose from. See, that is choice. | 05:15 |
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| BartJol | SDuensin: no, we just join you to remain friends, allthough we have not that many troups, just send them to win friendship from the UK and US | 05:18 |
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| BartJol | governments that is | 05:19 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: you didn't have to do that, I already consider us friends :) | 05:19 |
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| BartJol | yeay, me and you, but our governments?? | 05:19 |
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| BartJol | I don't question all US people | 05:19 |
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| BartJol | only the "board" from the last..... let's say 8 years | 05:20 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | the "board"? | 05:21 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | what is that? | 05:21 |
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| BartJol | perlmonkey2: do you think that things will get better with one of the two president cannidates | 05:22 |
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| BartJol | ? | 05:22 |
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| BartJol | the bush administration perlmonkey2 | 05:22 |
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| BartJol | not directly the senate | 05:22 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | no | 05:23 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | I think things will get worse | 05:23 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | regardless | 05:23 |
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| BartJol | but is that just a economic fluctuation problem or more fundamental? | 05:24 |
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| BartJol | where do your concerns are eventually? | 05:24 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | I think the last 8 years have brought incredible new levels of corruption to government. That will not easily be reversed. | 05:24 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | Not unless Patrick Fitzgerald is given a secretarily position to police Congress :P | 05:25 |
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| BartJol | so a lot of "supporting"people stay or is it a trend to be bribable? | 05:26 |
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| BartJol | stay after the elections | 05:26 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | the political appoitments will mostly all change | 05:27 |
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| BartJol | and bribable has more meanings than just money | 05:27 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | I think the corruption is mostly limited to upper government. There are pretty good checks on the little people. | 05:27 |
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| BartJol | so you expect both candidates to keep that intact? | 05:29 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | How would the president police congress? impossible. | 05:29 |
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| BartJol | s/that/the crruptness/ | 05:29 |
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| SDuensin | Our government needs rebooted. | 05:30 |
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| BartJol | I would like to say thta "sense" would be an answer | 05:30 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: here is why this is. Congress approval ratings are at an all time low. At one point they were in the single digits. Yes in the Senate only 8 of the 33 seats up are even contested. | 05:32 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | incumbants just don't lose very often no matter what they do. | 05:32 |
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| BartJol | but if you want to chance other people (than US) you should chance yourself (not meant personally), personally I think a good learning and health program would be a priority | 05:33 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | bah we can get nothing done until the corruption is dealt with. anything done now will be half-assed and full of bribery and payoffs. | 05:34 |
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| BartJol | self sustaining economy would be a help to, instead of just robbing other countries of oil | 05:34 |
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| BartJol | sorry perlmonkey2, my english is not good enough to really get what you meant with:Congress approval ratings are at an all time low. At one point they were in the single digits. Yes in the Senate only 8 of the 33 seats up are even contested. | 05:36 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | s/Yes/yet/ | 05:36 |
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| SDuensin | It's win-win over here. Our "leaders" have personal oil interests *and* private military interests. Go fight over oil and you make money no matter what. | 05:36 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | The Senate (one of the two houses of congress) only 8 people have a chance of losing their seats to a challenger. | 05:36 |
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| BartJol | is that in general? | 05:38 |
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| BartJol | no, apparently | 05:39 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | no, in general it is a lot less. In a normal year, it would be almost impossible to lose your seat in congress. | 05:39 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | so once elected they can be as criminal as they want with little chance of consequences. | 05:39 |
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| SDuensin | Remember, if "pro" is the opposite of "con", what is the opposite of "progress"? :-) | 05:40 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | Don't get me wrong. There is a lesser of two evils to pick from. | 05:40 |
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| BartJol | ah, here a new president is (normally) chosen from the political group that had the highest percentage of the votes, but the congress is renewed as a result from the votes | 05:41 |
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| BartJol | but we have 10+ "groups" | 05:42 |
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| BartJol | in our congress, there's even one that just focusses om protection of animals | 05:43 |
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| BartJol | they have only 1 seat though | 05:43 |
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| BartJol | but, just keep hope, for now... I just go to bed | 05:45 |
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| dionak | election tomorrow...the end of the bush era coming... | 06:10 |
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| dionak | i, for one, am so excited! | 06:10 |
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| @preaction | it may not be the end of the bush era, mccain may get elected ;-) | 06:10 |
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| dionak | true...but still. | 06:11 |
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| dionak | i really think obama will come out on top. we'll see | 06:11 |
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| dionak | never know. | 06:11 |
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| @preaction | http://www.truthout.org/110308A <- let's hope Obama wins | 06:12 |
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| dionak | the last two prez elections i've stayed up all night to see the results. i'm finally taking the next day off to get some rest | 06:12 |
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| dionak | let's hope not... | 06:14 |
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| apeiron | heh | 06:14 |
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| apeiron | It's bloody illegal to remove felons from the voter registration. =\ | 06:14 |
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| apeiron | Or... was. | 06:14 |
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| dionak | during election, i yell at the tele like others do at football games in the us. if it gets close, i'll lose my voice. ;) | 06:14 |
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| @preaction | that hasn't stopped the GOP in the last two presidential elections | 06:15 |
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| apeiron | preaction, Well, yeah. "If we can't win, we'll cheat!" | 06:15 |
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| dionak | there's already so much misinformation. like if you have a traffic ticket, you can't vote. | 06:15 |
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| dionak | it's ridiculous. | 06:15 |
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| apeiron | Yeah. All that's just total bull. | 06:16 |
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| apeiron | See also: http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/11/air-force-aims.html | 06:16 |
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| dionak | yea, true but it's believed | 06:16 |
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| apeiron | ^ the USAF can't beat the people attacking their sites so they want to literally redesign TCP/IP | 06:16 |
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| apeiron | That'll go over really well with the rest of the world. | 06:17 |
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| apeiron | (for once I am thankful that businesses own our government, they won't stand for this) | 06:17 |
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| dionak | i've gotten at least 8 calls in the last 72 hours regarding voting | 06:17 |
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| apeiron | heh | 06:17 |
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| dionak | it's almost silly | 06:17 |
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| dionak | i've stopped answering | 06:17 |
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| * apeiron spent about 15 hours this weekend doing so | 06:17 |
| apeiron | That was quite the educational experience. I learned where the money goes in a campaign. | 06:18 |
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| apeiron | $400+ USD/day in just pizza. For one facility. Not counting phones or anything else. | 06:19 |
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| dionak | it's amazing how out of touch most americans are that they believe this misinformation. the internet should really be freely available to everyone so they can do their research. | 06:19 |
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| apeiron | yes, well | 06:19 |
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| apeiron | Typical American big business doesn't see things the way we hippies do. :) | 06:19 |
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| dionak | yea, we have biz acquaintances that make mad money on campaigns. quite amazing really that a biz model can be based on re-election. | 06:20 |
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| dionak | shows the machine quality of re-election, and the money behind it | 06:20 |
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| apeiron | That's... quite a lot of trust. | 06:20 |
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| dionak | obama has been campaigning for two years. imagine the capital behind that | 06:21 |
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| apeiron | Billions. | 06:21 |
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| apeiron | Easily. | 06:21 |
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| dionak | yea, silly $$ really | 06:21 |
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| apeiron | But you know what? It's money that's feeding our businesses, feeding our economy. | 06:22 |
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| dionak | true | 06:22 |
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| apeiron | They say war's great for the economy. We've got the war here that's the exception to the rule. I'd go so far to say that the campaigning is what's kept this country the milimeter it is from the economic grave. | 06:23 |
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| dionak | i think the exception is because of the interdependency of the global economy. | 06:23 |
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| apeiron | And if you look back in history at all the previous elections, this one is *huge*. All the candidates are spending enormous amounts of money on absolutely everything. | 06:24 |
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| dionak | yea, it just keeps growing | 06:24 |
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| dionak | obama has set a record | 06:24 |
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| apeiron | oh yeah, I heard about that. | 06:24 |
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| apeiron | I've seen several images around the net about his spending policy, his inexperience. One compares Clinton to Bush 1 and 2 and Reagan. Clinton was tax + spend: surplus. The rest: huge deficit. | 06:25 |
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| apeiron | The other one is a picture of Lincoln with the text "inexperienced Illinois senator" on the bottom. | 06:26 |
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| apeiron | (the latter is on cafepress if you're interested) | 06:26 |
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| dionak | either way, mcain + pailn just frickin' scares me. mostly her | 06:27 |
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| apeiron | yes. Especially considering McCain's health, we're quite possibly literally a breath away from Palin for President. | 06:28 |
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| dionak | love tina fey tho. !! | 06:28 |
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| dionak | exactly! that's why it's so scary! | 06:28 |
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| apeiron | I had a teacher in high school, six years ago (yes, I'm young) who made an interesting remark. He had said that no nation lasts forever. | 06:29 |
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| dionak | i say tina faye for prez rather than sarah. did you catch the prank on youtube? | 06:29 |
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| apeiron | And that there's a growing number of similarities between the US and Rome when it fell. | 06:29 |
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| dionak | good point. smart teacher | 06:29 |
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| apeiron | No, links? | 06:29 |
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| dionak | yea, i've heard the relation. just a sec | 06:30 |
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| dionak | honestly, i couldn't watch it all. thought it was a little cruel | 06:30 |
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| apeiron | heh. | 06:31 |
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| dionak | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMV0LKlVj8I | 06:31 |
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| * apeiron *click* | 06:31 |
| dionak | she and her staff sound so excited, then confused...then disappointed.. | 06:31 |
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| apeiron | heh | 06:32 |
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| apeiron | Have you heard what the McCain campaign is doing now? | 06:32 |
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| dionak | idk, their strategy hasn't changed much | 06:32 |
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| apeiron | They're actually using automated bots to call people and play clips of *Hillary* talking trash about Obama. | 06:33 |
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| @preaction | yeah, By Any Means Necessary doesn't really lend a supporting strategy | 06:33 |
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| apeiron | "maybe in eight years" /me shudders | 06:33 |
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| dionak | i recently heard the robocalls statistically have no effect... | 06:33 |
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| dionak | npr | 06:33 |
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| apeiron | Probably not. But still, it's really low. | 06:34 |
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| apeiron | bahaha "I can see Belgium" | 06:34 |
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| apeiron | .... wait wat | 06:34 |
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| dionak | have you been watching snl? | 06:34 |
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| dionak | lol | 06:34 |
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| apeiron | No TV for me. | 06:34 |
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| dionak | oh, nbc.com | 06:34 |
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| apeiron | It's more a choice thing than anything else. | 06:35 |
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| apeiron | Choice / principle. | 06:35 |
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| dionak | tv? | 06:35 |
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| apeiron | Too much conservativism / DMCA for me. | 06:35 |
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| apeiron | bahahaha, fox news | 06:36 |
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| apeiron | ++ | 06:36 |
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| dionak | apeiron, good to know we have something in common. an interest in us politics | 06:37 |
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| apeiron | You know, I used to be quite apolitical. Then I heard about net neutrality. | 06:38 |
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| dionak | lol | 06:41 |
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| apeiron | hm? | 06:41 |
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| dionak | net neutrality is so controversial that it can't help but motivate us geeks | 06:42 |
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| dionak | if it doesn't motivate us, there's something seriously wrong | 06:42 |
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| apeiron | Oh yes. | 06:42 |
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| dionak | glad it inspired you | 06:42 |
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| apeiron | I saw a lot of merchandise on cafepress with a slogan that says "if you're not outraged, you're not paying attention". So so so true. | 06:44 |
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| dionak | yea, so true. | 06:44 |
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| dionak | ok, i'm out. got to get some EST rest before the big day | 06:44 |
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| dionak | ttys | 06:45 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 16:14 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | howdy SDuensin | 17:07 |
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| SDuensin | Hey perlmonkey2 | 17:09 |
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| carogray | morning | 17:10 |
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| carogray | editor just deleted a collaboration system trying to delete a thread | 17:10 |
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| carogray | I can find it when I search but no other way | 17:11 |
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| * SDuensin is still playing with Things. | 17:11 |
| carogray | not in any directory | 17:11 |
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| carogray | any clues to restoring collaboration system that is still there in some form somehow? | 17:11 |
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| ryuu_ro | carogray: isn't it in your trashbin? | 17:12 |
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| carogray | not in mine and not in system | 17:12 |
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| ryuu_ro | hmm, that sucks | 17:12 |
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| carogray | you betcha | 17:12 |
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| carogray | wanted to go live this week | 17:12 |
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| carogray | I put in a login request... just thought if anyone were around now I might figure it out sooner | 17:13 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | rizen: any useful utility scripts I write, can they just be added to tools? | 17:14 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | For instance a script that changes the archive on date for all the CS's in a conf? | 17:14 |
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| @rizen | that's probably better to be released into the bazaar | 17:14 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | okay | 17:15 |
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| @rizen | not that you couldn't also put it in tools | 17:15 |
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| @rizen | but that one could definitely be useful to other peeps | 17:15 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | yeah, would be groovy for the bazaar and that's probably where people will lok first. | 17:15 |
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| carogray | oddly enough when I find it in search, I add the ?op=assetManager;method=manage I end up in clipboard | 17:15 |
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| carogray | oh! | 17:15 |
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| @rizen | the tools folder in svn was originally only for our release management tools | 17:15 |
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| carogray | check system clipboard and there it is! Hallelujah. | 17:15 |
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| @rizen | but it's kind of been corrupted over the years | 17:16 |
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| carogray | never mind | 17:16 |
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| ryuu_ro | carogray: good times! | 17:16 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | rizen maybe a new dir for just utilities? | 17:17 |
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| @rizen | perlmonkey2: when it becomes a problem, then we'll worry about it | 17:19 |
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| SDuensin | Hey rizen, is "Thingy" production-worthy in 7.5.31, or should I wait? | 17:21 |
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| @rizen | yes it is | 17:21 |
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| @rizen | we're using it in a few places | 17:21 |
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| SDuensin | Just kinda gunshy after last night. I *really* want to use it for a lot of management functions though. | 17:22 |
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| @rizen | patspam are you here? | 17:43 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | rizen: it'd be 2:50 in the morning there | 17:50 |
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| @rizen | that doesn't mean anything...this is patspam we're talking about | 17:51 |
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| @rizen | ok then, i have a quick poll for the devs that are here: | 17:55 |
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| @rizen | WebGUI::Crud's update() method requires that you pass in a hash reference of properties to set | 17:56 |
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| SDuensin | They all say "yes" - rename the "Advertising" icon! :-P | 17:56 |
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| @rizen | this hash reference is then used to update the database table and WebGUI::Crud's internal data structures | 17:56 |
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| @rizen | it therefore deletes any elements from the hash reference that are not part of it's definition | 17:57 |
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| @rizen | this could either be a bug or a feature | 17:57 |
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| @rizen | the other day this thing hit me because it deleted that element from my hash | 17:58 |
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| @rizen | the thing was, i was jury rigging something...so it basically caught me jury rigging and said "you shouldn't do that" | 17:58 |
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| @rizen | so from that vantage point it's a feature | 17:58 |
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| @rizen | on the other hand, i could make a copy of the hash reference that you pass in | 17:58 |
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| @rizen | which is less efficient than just using the hash reference | 17:59 |
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| @rizen | and then delete what i need to delete from the copy | 17:59 |
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| @rizen | thusly you'd never run into this problem | 17:59 |
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| @rizen | if we keep the first way, this will of course be documented in the pod | 17:59 |
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| @rizen | so my question to you is, which makes more sense? | 17:59 |
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| @rizen | delete from the hash ref, or copy the hash ref? | 18:00 |
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| @preaction | keep it how it is. if they really need to maintain the integrity of their data hashref they can make a new hashref themselves | 18:00 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8247 /tools/updateCollaborationArchiveDate.pl: New script that will update all the collab systems for a site (or all sites) to archive after a given period | 18:06 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: jt * r8248 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Crud.pm: Crud create() for specific id (#9035) | 18:06 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: jt * r8249 /WebGUI/t/Crud.t: Crud create() for specific id (#9035) | 18:06 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: frank * r8250 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Google sitemaps index added to WebGUI | 18:06 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: jt * r8251 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Crud.pm: documented the deletion of elements from the properties hash ref in update() | 18:06 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: frank * r8252 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: google site index | 18:06 |
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| topsub | can i get the userId from.. ^User(userId); ? | 18:12 |
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| @rizen | yup | 18:14 |
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| @rizen | i think that ^#; also does it | 18:14 |
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| topsub | Here is a better idea. I can put a macro call inside the sql reports right? | 18:24 |
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| topsub | That way i can say like where userId = ^#():? | 18:24 |
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| topsub | ah yep this seems like its working | 18:24 |
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| elnino | good morning! I have 7.5.24, and I'm trying to figure out how to make a question on a survey with check boxes, so that people can select more than one answer. Is that possible? | 18:28 |
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| elnino | looking at the webgui site, this feature has seemed to be missing since 2005? | 18:32 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: frank * r8253 /WebGUI/etc/WebGUI.conf.original: Added new content handlers to WebGUI.conf.original | 18:38 |
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| topsub | Threw the inbox system how can i send a message to a group? | 18:41 |
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| @preaction | WebGUI::Mail::Send | 18:41 |
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| topsub | I mean is there a way by default | 18:41 |
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| topsub | not doing anything custom | 18:41 |
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| @preaction | go into the Group manager, click on a group, look for "Send an Email to group" | 18:42 |
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| topsub | hmm will this show up as an "inbox" item? | 18:44 |
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| topsub | not just email them? | 18:44 |
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| @preaction | not sure, try it? | 18:44 |
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| topsub | the private message system we want to send a message to everyone not email. | 18:44 |
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| topsub | hmm doesn't seem like it. that really just emails them | 18:47 |
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| knowmad | rizen: want to hold this SEO conversation in realtime instead of via RFE? | 18:55 |
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| @rizen | for pink slips? | 18:55 |
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| knowmad | you're on, buddy! | 18:55 |
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| @rizen | i don't think that anybody uses pink slips anymore | 18:56 |
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| knowmad | so how do i get keywords field into the meta tags? i don't see any template variables for putting it in there | 18:56 |
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| @rizen | the title to my car is white paper with blue text | 18:56 |
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| knowmad | (that's why i was so quick to agree) | 18:56 |
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| @rizen | heh | 18:56 |
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| @rizen | you don't need template variables | 18:56 |
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| @rizen | just type keywords | 18:56 |
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| @rizen | and they automatically create a metatag in the head block | 18:57 |
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| elnino | rizen: i had to add: <meta etc... | 18:57 |
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| knowmad | oh | 18:57 |
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| @rizen | elnino: that's cuz you aren't using the keywords field | 18:57 |
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| @rizen | you're using the raw head tags field | 18:57 |
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| knowmad | hmm, i don't like it; seems too much like action at a distance | 18:57 |
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| elnino | what version puts the metatag in? | 18:57 |
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| knowmad | 7.5.x | 18:57 |
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| knowmad | i'd guess since that's when the new field was added to the metadata tab for all assets | 18:58 |
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| @rizen | knowmad, whether you like it or not is irrelevant, that's how it works | 18:58 |
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| @rizen | you said you wanted the easy way | 18:58 |
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| knowmad | ok, i'll take it up with template designers but it only addresses 50% of my RFE | 18:58 |
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| @rizen | to add keywords to the head block | 18:58 |
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| knowmad | LOL, you got me there | 18:58 |
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| @rizen | something that a normal user could do | 18:58 |
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| @rizen | it can't be any easier than that | 18:58 |
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| elnino | what about the description metatag? | 18:59 |
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| @rizen | the synopsis (summary) field is supposed to do that, but it doesn't appear to be working | 18:59 |
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| knowmad | but i'm a control freak and want to be able to place my keywords into the head block using a template variable | 18:59 |
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| @rizen | so that's a bug report that needs to be field | 18:59 |
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| @rizen | filed | 18:59 |
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| knowmad | oh, okay; i can do that | 18:59 |
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| @rizen | knowmad...then do it one of the 10 other ways that webgui allows you to do it | 18:59 |
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| elnino | oh. I thought the summary field was for synopis on navigation assets... | 18:59 |
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| knowmad | elnino: it's for that also | 19:00 |
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| elnino | oh. | 19:00 |
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| knowmad | and search results | 19:00 |
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| @rizen | elnino, synopsis is for many things | 19:00 |
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| knowmad | so why didn't I know about this behavior of keywords? | 19:01 |
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| @rizen | knowmad: this is why i said in the ticket that maybe we should have a chapter on SEO in the book | 19:02 |
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| @rizen | in the CM guide | 19:02 |
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| knowmad | with keywords, it's my own fault for not reading the help text | 19:02 |
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| elnino | that would be great. Because even the hover | 19:02 |
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| knowmad | I do agree about a chapter in CM Guide | 19:02 |
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| elnino | doesn't elude to what you say those two fields do. | 19:02 |
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| knowmad | actually it does for keywords but not for synopsis | 19:03 |
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| elnino | you;r right! =) | 19:03 |
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| @rizen | and as i said, synopsis is both broken and used for a lot of things | 19:03 |
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| @rizen | it can't possibly give you a list of all the things it's used in | 19:03 |
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| knowmad | but a few of the main ones wouldn't hurt ;) | 19:04 |
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| @rizen | knowmad: does this mean i get your pink? | 19:04 |
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| knowmad | no, the bug saved me | 19:05 |
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| elnino | knowmad - re seo. Something I brought upto tiffany, is having a | 19:05 |
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| elnino | separate title meta field, as opposed to using the title field on the asset. | 19:06 |
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| elnino | I have a really cool macro | 19:06 |
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| elnino | that checks to see if a title has been defined in the "extra head field" and if it exissts | 19:06 |
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| knowmad | yes, we're seeing similar needs | 19:06 |
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| elnino | it doesn't print out the title field | 19:06 |
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| knowmad | oh, that's interesting | 19:06 |
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| elnino | if one doesn't exists, it uses the asset's title | 19:06 |
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| elnino | I've been meaning to post it. | 19:07 |
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| knowmad | i could see where the Metadata tab would have an SEO section with the synopsis, title and keywords sections; if the title is not defined, it could use the Page Layout or asset title | 19:07 |
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| knowmad | thanks for sharing | 19:07 |
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| elnino | that's what I thought the metadata tab was for, only to find out it wasnt'., back in the 7.3x days. | 19:09 |
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| @rizen | don't confuse metadata with meta tags | 19:10 |
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| elnino | I know, that's what confused me.. The similarity in the name. | 19:10 |
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| elnino | I know now. =) | 19:10 |
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| elnino | I wouldn't be surprised if others got them confused. meta DATA being all that is included in the different meta TAGS. | 19:11 |
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| knowmad | yeah, those caught me up at first also | 19:11 |
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| @rizen | i wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't know what the title field is for | 19:11 |
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| elnino | knowmad, would you like that macro? | 19:12 |
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| @rizen | that's why in 7.6 you can now rename all fields and all tabs to be whatever you want them to be | 19:13 |
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| knowmad | elnino: thanks. i don't have a need for it now but it's good to know you've developed it | 19:13 |
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| knowmad | that's a nice touch | 19:13 |
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| knowmad | bug report added | 19:16 |
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| elnino | thanks knowmad | 19:16 |
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| elnino | I have 7.5.24, and I'm trying to figure out how to make a question on a survey with check boxes, so that people can select more than one answer. Is that possible? I could have sworn I've seen somewhere.. maybe it was in "thingy". but I need it in the survey. | 19:17 |
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| elnino | rizen what is the size of the keywords field? | 19:17 |
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| @rizen | probably 255 | 19:19 |
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| knowmad | rizen: i've altered the RFE to request access to the description and keywords via template variables; i've given 2 reasons why it's "a good thing" | 19:19 |
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| @preaction | i think it gets processed and parsed, so it might be unlimited | 19:19 |
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| @rizen | there isn't really a specific length because keywords aren't really stored in a single field in the database | 19:20 |
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| @rizen | but the form element itself might have a max length set | 19:20 |
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| knowmad | is there a limit in HTML specs? | 19:20 |
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| @rizen | knowmad: it will be rejected | 19:20 |
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| @preaction | no, but the <meta name="keywords"> isn't really used anymore | 19:20 |
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| knowmad | why? | 19:20 |
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| @rizen | because i disagree | 19:21 |
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| elnino | knowmad: there isn['t a limit in the html specs but there are recommendations of so many "terms" | 19:21 |
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| knowmad | that's unreasonable | 19:21 |
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| @rizen | i'm unreasonable | 19:21 |
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| knowmad | like i said... | 19:21 |
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| @rizen | now if you had said "synopsis" and "keywords" then i might agree | 19:21 |
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| @rizen | but description...not going to happen | 19:21 |
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| knowmad | oh, i'm saying the wrong thing | 19:22 |
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| knowmad | i meant synopsis | 19:22 |
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| elnino | keywords are used, just not as important in search engines as it was once. | 19:22 |
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| @rizen | you better hurry and update your RFE before i reject it then | 19:22 |
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| knowmad | it's the SEO stuff that, although search engines don't necessarily rely on, my clients want | 19:22 |
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| knowmad | going... | 19:22 |
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| elnino | same here. | 19:22 |
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| @rizen | i'm probably still going to reject it | 19:22 |
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| @rizen | just cuz it will make you angry | 19:23 |
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| elnino | if marketing thinks it's important.... | 19:23 |
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| @preaction | they only think it's important because they're idiots | 19:23 |
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| knowmad | then i'll have dionak submit | 19:23 |
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| elnino | preaction =) | 19:23 |
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| knowmad | i know you like her better anyhow | 19:23 |
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| @rizen | damn, i can't resist diona | 19:23 |
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| @rizen | =) | 19:23 |
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| knowmad | i knew it :) | 19:23 |
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| @preaction | SEO is snake-oil. if you're already following W3's guidelines on how to create accessible, proper sites then you have all the SEO you need | 19:24 |
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| * preaction insert counter-rhetoric here | 19:24 |
| * rizen must t-r-y to resist diona | 19:25 |
| knowmad | preaction: i generally agree; we're not selling it just accomodating the client who want to use it | 19:25 |
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| elnino | which rfe are you guys talking about? I only see the bug report. | 19:25 |
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| knowmad | #9036 | 19:26 |
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| knowmad | rizen: you're getting v-e-r-y sleepy; cannot resist dionak's demands... | 19:26 |
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| knowmad | poof, there she is | 19:27 |
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| @rizen | noooooooooOOOOOOO! diona is my kryptonite | 19:27 |
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| dionak | hm, my ears were burning | 19:27 |
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| knowmad | i've threatened to put you after him if he doesn't approve my RFE (#9036) | 19:27 |
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| knowmad | i knew he wouldn't say no to you :) | 19:27 |
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| knowmad | it's lunchtime! | 19:28 |
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| knowmad | ttyl | 19:28 |
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| dionak | yea, rizen finds my voice irresistable. | 19:28 |
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| dionak | lol | 19:29 |
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| elnino | anyone know when checkboxes will be added to the survey? I"m using 7.5.24, and they aren't in there. I tried every question type. | 19:32 |
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| @rizen | 7.6.3 | 19:33 |
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| @rizen | survey is completely rewritten | 19:33 |
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| @rizen | and contains multi-answer types | 19:33 |
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| elnino | is there a way to have two instances of webgui installed? | 19:34 |
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| elnino | on the same server. | 19:34 |
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| elnino | oh. 7.6.3 sin't out yet... | 19:35 |
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| elnino | and if I remember correctly, 76 sn't stable until jan? | 19:36 |
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| -!- ryuu_ro [n=rory@5ED1308E.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #webgui | 19:38 |
| @rizen | there is a way to do it, but neither i nor any of my staff would ever tell you how to do it | 19:41 |
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| @rizen | because it's just a very terrible idea | 19:42 |
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| @rizen | yes, 7.6 will be stable in january | 19:42 |
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| -!- ryuu_ro [n=rory@5ED1308E.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] | 19:42 |
| elnino | I won't hold you to the terrible idea.. I would like hear it, because by boss needs something now. Otherwise, we'll just use survey monkey. =( | 19:43 |
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| elnino | I could probably just write one.. but that would be a waste of time, since you guys rewrote it all. | 19:44 |
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| @rizen | elnino...seriously, i'm not going to tell you | 19:45 |
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| @rizen | it's so bad that i'd rather you use survey monkey | 19:45 |
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| @rizen | it = installing 2 webgui's on the same production server, not the new survey in 7.6 | 19:45 |
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| elnino | if it's installing manually and changing the default installation location (from /data).. I've done that - our product is runnign that way... and I suspect that is what you were going to tell me.... | 19:46 |
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| @rizen | that's not what i was going to tell you | 19:47 |
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| @rizen | and even if it was, i still wouldn't admit it | 19:47 |
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| @rizen | don't do it | 19:47 |
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| @rizen | you are in for a nightmare | 19:47 |
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| elnino | I know. | 19:47 |
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| elnino | and top it off, i did it on a 64 bit machine. | 19:48 |
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| topsub | sending message threw inbox has agroupId so that means i can send a message to everyone in a group? | 20:08 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8254 /tools/deArchiveCSPosts.pl: This script will dearchive posts for all CSs on a site from a given date. | 21:06 |
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| -!- elnino [n=elnino@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 21:08 |
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| +perlDreamer | Should the sitemap generator create a sitemap for this url: www.example.com/sitemap.xml/page2 ? | 22:12 |
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| @rizen | no | 22:13 |
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| @rizen | did frank mess up his regex? | 22:13 |
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| @rizen | and i believe it's siteindex.xml | 22:14 |
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| +perlDreamer | It's just missing an anchor at the end. | 22:14 |
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| +perlDreamer | $p =~ m/siteindex\.xml/i | 22:14 |
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| @rizen | you fixing or should i? | 22:14 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'll get it. | 22:14 |
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| @rizen | pd i have some amazing news for you | 22:14 |
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| +perlDreamer | You can hire me? | 22:15 |
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| @rizen | i discovered something (which you may have already known) | 22:15 |
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| @rizen | "theshawshankredemption" is exactly 22 characters | 22:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | no way | 22:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | That's great! | 22:15 |
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| @rizen | i used it as a test guid today | 22:15 |
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| @rizen | in crud.t | 22:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | We have to do better than that | 22:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | It should be the UID for the root node. | 22:15 |
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| @rizen | oooh | 22:15 |
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| @preaction | it's sitemap.xml | 22:15 |
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| @rizen | except...that could screw with backward compatibility | 22:16 |
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| @rizen | so we'll have to wait until webgui 8 to do it | 22:16 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, that was a paste from the file | 22:16 |
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| @rizen | preaction? according to the spec on sitemaps.org? | 22:16 |
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| @preaction | i was reading the FAQ on google | 22:16 |
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| @preaction | which is a copy of http://sitemaps.org/protocol.php | 22:17 |
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| @rizen | it looks like khenn is a giant fuckup then =) | 22:18 |
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| +perlDreamer | Hey now, no khenn bashing. | 22:24 |
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| @rizen | you know what | 22:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | Yeah. Nice guy. Plays second base. | 22:24 |
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| @rizen | we could change the parentId of the root asset to "theshawshankredemption" | 22:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | What a great idea! | 22:25 |
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| @rizen | the problem is 2 fold though | 22:25 |
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| +perlDreamer | but what about backwards compatibility | 22:25 |
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| @rizen | nothing uses the parent id of root | 22:25 |
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| @rizen | so it's not an issue | 22:25 |
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| @rizen | however | 22:25 |
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| @rizen | 1) shawshank's playground is supposed to be in testing, not in the rest of webgui | 22:26 |
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| @rizen | 2) if we start using 'theshawshankredemption' out in regular webgui, then we can't use it as a testing guid | 22:26 |
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| @rizen | what do you say about that mr pd? | 22:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | Shawshank is so great it can transcend it's use as solely fodder for testing in this one instance. | 22:27 |
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| @rizen | see i was thinking we should use: thedarkknightisabadass | 22:28 |
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| @rizen | which is also 22 characters | 22:28 |
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| @rizen | =) | 22:28 |
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| @khenn | eh I had that bug fixed in one of my other 1000 copies of WebGUI. I just pasted the wrong one =p | 22:28 |
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| @khenn | it was pointed out during the WUC | 22:28 |
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| +perlDreamer | whysoseriousbatmandude? | 22:29 |
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| @rizen | hehe | 22:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | -whysoseriousbatman- | 22:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | --batmandude has 24 characters. I miscounted | 22:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | idonthaveherinmypants- | 22:30 |
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| @rizen | __why-so-serious-sa__ | 22:30 |
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| @rizen | andimgonnagiveittoem- | 22:31 |
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| -!- Bernd_ [n=spunky@tmo-100-32.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #webgui | 22:32 |
| Bernd_ | perlDreamer, have you seen the patches for the UsersOnline macro? | 22:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | No, Bernd_. Are they attached to the bug report? | 22:36 |
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| Bernd_ | Yes. There are two of them actually. | 22:36 |
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| Bernd_ | One is for the testing function. | 22:36 |
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| Bernd_ | The other is an upgrade script for creating a new profile field. | 22:36 |
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| Bernd_ | Let me look up the URLs... | 22:37 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'll try to have both of them done by tonight. | 22:37 |
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| +perlDreamer | $dayJob is keeping me very busy these days | 22:37 |
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| Bernd_ | Cool! | 22:37 |
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| Bernd_ | Me, too! | 22:37 |
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| Bernd_ | It is so stressful to be working again :-) | 22:37 |
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| +perlDreamer | Yeah | 22:38 |
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| Bernd_ | So it's the same on the other side of the globe? | 22:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | Last Thursday, I worked 11 hours | 22:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | I worked 5 more on Saturday | 22:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | and on average, a 9-11 hours per day last week | 22:38 |
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| Bernd_ | And how much on Sunday? | 22:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | I took sunday off | 22:38 |
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| Bernd_ | Sounds great... | 22:38 |
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| Bernd_ | for your employer! | 22:38 |
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| Bernd_ | Do you want me to pitty you? | 22:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | indeed | 22:39 |
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| Bernd_ | Sunday off? | 22:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | No, I want you to hire me to work on wG full time | 22:39 |
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| Bernd_ | Hm, I am not sure if you would work for the salary I am able to pay. | 22:39 |
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| Bernd_ | What is your regular job then? | 22:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | I design chips for batteries. | 22:40 |
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| Bernd_ | Chips in batteries? | 22:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | Yeah | 22:40 |
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| Bernd_ | For charging? | 22:40 |
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| Bernd_ | Or what kind of chips? | 22:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | They keep track of serial numbers, monitor battery safety | 22:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | Do remaining capacity | 22:40 |
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| Bernd_ | Oh, you mean like notebook and cell phone batteries? | 22:40 |
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| Bernd_ | Does not sound too bad. | 22:41 |
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| Bernd_ | Deadline ahead? | 22:41 |
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| Bernd_ | Or what is keeping you busy? | 22:41 |
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| @rizen | perlDreamer: i'll offer you a job for $200k per year | 22:41 |
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| @rizen | but i can only hire you on a limited term contract of 1 week | 22:41 |
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| @rizen | =) | 22:41 |
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| Bernd_ | Is that a $200 000? | 22:41 |
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| @preaction | perlbot math 200000 / 52 | 22:42 |
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| perlbot | 3846.15384615385 | 22:42 |
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| @preaction | uh... i'll take it | 22:42 |
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| @rizen | in that one week i need you to accomplish a year's worth of work | 22:42 |
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| @rizen | do we have a deal? | 22:42 |
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| @preaction | oh... now he says | 22:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | Bernd_: Deadline passed many weeks ago. | 22:42 |
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| Bernd_ | What is the equivalent of a year's work? | 22:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | My part of the chip is finished | 22:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | but I'm trying to help others out now | 22:43 |
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| @rizen | 40*52 hours | 22:43 |
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| Bernd_ | perlDreamer, but then time does not matter any longer! | 22:43 |
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| Bernd_ | I mean, once you have started postponing it... | 22:43 |
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| Bernd_ | you can do it again and again! | 22:43 |
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| Bernd_ | That is how we usually handle it :-) | 22:43 |
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| +perlDreamer | Oh yes it does. They later the chip is, the more the bosses start yelling and swearing | 22:43 |
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| Bernd_ | I forgot you have a hire and fire system in the US. | 22:44 |
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| Bernd_ | Not going to take more of your time. | 22:44 |
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| Bernd_ | Need to get up early again. | 22:44 |
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| Bernd_ | But something else concerning all the devs: | 22:45 |
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| Bernd_ | Has anyone started to fix the UserList asset yet? | 22:45 |
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| Bernd_ | If not I will be trying to fix it during my train ride home on Friday. | 22:46 |
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| Bernd_ | So, anyone? | 22:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | I don't have any plans to work on the UserList asset. You would be doing UK a favor by fixing it for them. | 22:47 |
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| +perlDreamer | You would do us all a favor if you rewrote it from scratch. | 22:47 |
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| Bernd_ | Is it so bad? | 22:48 |
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| @preaction | there's even a Report framework you could use to rewrite it | 22:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | I don't think it's a question of badness, just lack of goodness. | 22:49 |
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| Bernd_ | One momen, I was not talking about rewriting it. | 22:49 |
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| Bernd_ | What is the reporting framework? | 22:49 |
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| Bernd_ | Can that be done in about three hours? | 22:49 |
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| @preaction | an experimental piece i've written, and probably not three hours, no | 22:49 |
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| Bernd_ | perlDreamer, that seems to be the same to me?! | 22:49 |
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| Bernd_ | In that case, I am only going to attempt to fix it. | 22:50 |
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| Bernd_ | Never mind. | 22:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | It's probably for the best. | 22:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | (just to fix) | 22:50 |
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| Bernd_ | Alright. | 22:50 |
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| Bernd_ | Let's see how far I can get. | 22:50 |
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| Bernd_ | Good night! | 22:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | Gute Nacht | 22:50 |
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| nuba | i cant believe im reading this on wikipedia: "The issues of caging lists and other techniques of voter suppression which gave rise to many 2004 United States election voting controversies have not been addressed by further legislation or a regulatory crackdown, and are predicted by Greg Palast (an American BBC reporter who has investigated these controversies) to recur to the extent that they could swing the result.[11]" | 22:52 |
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| nuba | from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2008 | 22:52 |
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| nuba | is that accurate? | 22:53 |
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| @preaction | yes | 22:53 |
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| @preaction | 100% accurate | 22:53 |
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| @preaction | 20% of the voters were purged from voter rolls in one state | 22:53 |
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| @preaction | (for this election i mean, not 2004) | 22:53 |
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| -!- Bernd_ [n=spunky@tmo-100-32.customers.d1-online.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] | 22:53 |
| nuba | also, am I understanding right that this election starts today and goes on for many weeks? | 22:54 |
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| nuba | so its not a single-day event? | 22:54 |
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| @preaction | no, you have until 8pm most places to vote | 22:55 |
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| @preaction | today | 22:55 |
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| @preaction | there was pre-voting, so-called "absentee ballots", but up to 50% of those are rejected for one reason or another | 22:55 |
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| +perlDreamer | nuba, it will take a while to count and double check all the counts. | 22:55 |
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| @preaction | usually the losing candidate concedes the election tonight | 22:55 |
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| @preaction | otherwise, yes, it will take a while | 22:56 |
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| nuba | no electronic ballot there? | 22:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | unless he pouts and throws a fit and tries to overturn it in the courts | 22:56 |
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| @preaction | nuba, yes, some are, but those electronic ballots have proven to be unreliable (and highly inaccurate) | 22:56 |
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| @preaction | in fact, in one state in 04, almost 5% of the votes for Kerry were counted for Bush, which is more than the percentage bush won that state by | 22:57 |
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| @preaction | http://www.truthout.org/110308A <- how mccain could win | 22:57 |
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| nuba | I once met the guy who was responsible for the criptographic routines (signing, hashing, etc) in the brazilian electronic ballot | 22:57 |
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| nuba | they're in production since 2000 or so. | 22:58 |
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| nuba | and there were some people from the US coming over every once in a while to see how it was going | 22:58 |
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| nuba | so i was hoping electronic ballots would be widely used in the US by now | 22:58 |
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| @Haarg | i don't really see the advantage to purely electronic voting | 22:59 |
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| nuba | its been working fine here, and there are some international entities who audit the process | 22:59 |
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| @preaction | i don't think the majority of the US has cared about democracy in a very long time | 22:59 |
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| apeiron | Ideally, electronic voting saves time. Ideally. | 22:59 |
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| @preaction | ha! international oversight is something we would NEVER accept | 22:59 |
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| @preaction | but it IS something that we NEED | 23:00 |
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| @tavisto | interesting how the controversies on that wikipedia page only include the incorrect purging of voters.. I wonder why it doesn't mention anything about registering new false voters as that's clearly a controversy as well. | 23:00 |
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| @preaction | tavisto, registering new false voters doesn't matter, as they can't vote | 23:00 |
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| @preaction | purging existing voters is a problem, since they can't vote | 23:01 |
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| @tavisto | I'm aware preaction, but false votes can easily be tallied when they're pooled into provisional vote pools | 23:02 |
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| nuba | oh just to clarify, international entities dont have sovereignity over the election process, they're just invited as independent auditors | 23:02 |
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| @tavisto | why do you think there was so much stink about the ACORN deal. If the votes had no chance of counting then it would make no sense to pull off the fraud. | 23:02 |
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| @preaction | provisional ballots don't get counted, even provisional ballots from legitimate people | 23:03 |
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| @Haarg | i don't really think electronic voting is much faster than a well designed ballot | 23:03 |
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| nuba | preaction: (im unsure if by oversight you mean having authority over the process) | 23:03 |
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| @preaction | nuba, i just mean auditing | 23:03 |
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| nuba | okay | 23:03 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: colin * r8255 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Content/SiteIndex.pm: anchor the URL for checking whether or not to generate a sitemap | 23:03 |
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| @tavisto | I think WebGUI should be used for all voting machines | 23:03 |
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| nuba | hah! then by unknown reasons it turns out a guy named JT was elected.... | 23:04 |
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| @tavisto | Preaction, provisional ballots are counted but just not until a few days after the election night | 23:05 |
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| @tavisto | so if the race is too close based on regular eligible votes then these very much affect the election. | 23:05 |
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| @preaction | "The great unreported story of the 2004 election was that there were more than three million voters shunted to provisional ballots. Over a million (1,090,000) were never counted, just chucked in the dumpster." | 23:06 |
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| @tavisto | The scary thing is for the system is that the provisional votes cast really lack good methods of scrutiny and verification. According to both sides | 23:06 |
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| @Haarg | that's not really important preaction | 23:06 |
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| @Haarg | the reason they aren't counted is because they couldn't effect the outcome | 23:07 |
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| @preaction | uh... those were in battleground states where kerry lost by a small margin | 23:07 |
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| @preaction | anyway, instead of pontificating here, i'm going to go vote | 23:08 |
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| @tavisto | Yep, there were tons of votes that were tossed in 2004. If I remember right there were tons of ineligible votes for various reasons. It happens in every election. I'm not saying it's right and I'd like to see a better system. | 23:08 |
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| @Haarg | there are lots of other problems with the voting process | 23:09 |
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| @tavisto | absolutely. It's one big mess. | 23:10 |
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| @preaction | indeed, too much partisan play on both sides | 23:10 |
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| @tavisto | absolutely | 23:11 |
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| @preaction | which is why independant international oversight / auditing would benefit us immensely | 23:11 |
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| @preaction | in addition to spending money on better equipment | 23:11 |
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| @preaction | this won't happen, because partisan politics likes the fuzzy system | 23:11 |
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| @Haarg | the equipment doesn't even need to be very complex | 23:11 |
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| @tavisto | we need more prominent parties too. I'm tired of this left/right game. | 23:12 |
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| @rizen | i think the voting system should just be done away with and instead the "let JT decide" initiative should be enacted | 23:12 |
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| @Haarg | we'd probably need to get rid of plurality voting before third parties become viable | 23:13 |
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| @tavisto | I'd like to see the constitution party grow more. (and some other parties) | 23:14 |
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| +perlDreamer | Party at Tavisto's house | 23:16 |
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| -!- topsub [n=josh@97.66.185.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 23:16 |
| @tavisto | sure, I have the campaign HQ party this year in my big ole' home theater | 23:16 |
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| @rizen | tavis, you're kidding, right? | 23:17 |
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| @rizen | about the constitution party? | 23:17 |
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| @rizen | the constitution party is the equivalent of the christian taliban | 23:18 |
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| @rizen | they want to do away with the democracy and replace it with a government rooted in biblical law | 23:19 |
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| nuba | sounds good. | 23:20 |
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| @tavisto | no, actually I'm not kidding. But that's quite a slant you are putting to it. | 23:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | that's not what wikipedia says about it | 23:20 |
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| nuba | whipping the wrongdoers? stoning them to death? AWESOME! ;) | 23:20 |
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| @tavisto | As any political platform expands into the mainstream it gets broader and a bit more mild | 23:20 |
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| @rizen | it say's that right on their web site | 23:21 |
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| @rizen | they want a theocracy | 23:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | links? | 23:21 |
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| @rizen | http://www.constitutionparty.com/ | 23:21 |
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| @rizen | It is our goal to limit the federal government to its delegated, enumerated, Constitutional functions and to restore American jurisprudence to its original Biblical common-law foundations. | 23:21 |
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| @rizen | QUOTE FROM THEIR SITE | 23:21 |
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| @tavisto | but I like several of their core values so I'd like to see them continue to grow. | 23:21 |
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| @rizen | oops, sorry about the big letters | 23:21 |
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| nuba | well, i guess core values rooted on christianism is something very agreeable | 23:22 |
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| @tavisto | if you would read more into this and not jump to your 'Religilous' type response, you'd see they aren't as you're making them out to be. But they are definitely way more conservative than you'll ever vote. | 23:23 |
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| nuba | another thing is having that enforced on you | 23:23 |
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| @rizen | agreeable to whom? religion is hate speech. (not talking about belief in god, talking about organized religion) | 23:23 |
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| @tavisto | The proper and lawful division of governmental authority among the Federal, State and local governments was an arrangement that the Founders rightly saw as necessary to preserving freedom and justice. Only after that federal, constitutional order is restored to its proper balance can we reverse America's slide into lawlessness, corruption and tyranny. | 23:23 |
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| @tavisto | The Constitution Party is the only party which is completely pro-life, pro-gun, pro-American sovereignty and independence, and in favor of a strong national defense. It is also the only party that is anti-globalist, anti-free trade, anti-deindustrialization, and anti-unchecked immigration. We also oppose special rights for homosexuals, the constantly increasing expansion of unlawful police laws,and both foreign aid and milita | 23:23 |
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| nuba | rizen: i like the "be nice to your neighbour" thingy | 23:23 |
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| +perlDreamer | Love your neighbor | 23:23 |
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| nuba | leave his wife alone | 23:23 |
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| +perlDreamer | Take care of the widow and the orphan | 23:23 |
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| nuba | dont take his lawnmower without asking | 23:23 |
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| nuba | that kind of thing | 23:23 |
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| @tavisto | yep, loving your neighbor is exactly the right phrase. And that's biblical baby. | 23:24 |
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| @rizen | you want to make love with my neighbor | 23:24 |
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| @rizen | i can tell you he's not that way | 23:24 |
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| @tavisto | I dont see the word "make" in my sentence above. | 23:25 |
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| @rizen | hehe | 23:26 |
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| @tavisto | But more parties competing in our elections and in our government would be a good thing. | 23:26 |
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| @rizen | first 2 sentences from their party platform: The Constitution Party gratefully acknowledges the blessing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of these United States. We hereby appeal to Him for mercy, aid, comfort, guidance and the protection of His Providence as we work to restore and preserve these United States. | 23:27 |
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| @rizen | tell me they don't want a theocracy | 23:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | If Obama says that during the national prayer breakfast, I'm going to call you on it ;) | 23:27 |
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| @rizen | second paragraph: This great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been and are afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here. | 23:27 |
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| @rizen | tell me they wouldn't engage in crusades | 23:27 |
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| nuba | its a pattern, tho, that once a economic crisis sets in, people's political views swing towards, well, not very friendly parties | 23:28 |
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| nuba | like Germany | 23:28 |
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| -!- khenn_ [n=khenn@97.92.186.139] has joined #WebGUI | 23:28 |
| nuba | Italy | 23:28 |
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| nuba | did | 23:28 |
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| @tavisto | Exaggeration on your part. You know Christianity and Jesus are deeply rooted in the founding of our country. And since you don't believe it sounds extreme to you. | 23:29 |
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| @rizen | They actually aren't deeply rooted in the founding of our country. Certainly religious freedom is. But many of the founding fathers were athiests | 23:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | Given how we're arguing about religion, this seems ironic: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081104/wl_nm/us_religion_dialogue | 23:32 |
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| -!- estiven [n=estiven@201.232.58.66] has joined #webgui | 23:33 |
| nuba | well, christian values pretty much percolated thru the building of our western civilization | 23:33 |
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| nuba | in south and central america there's still plenty of mix between religion and state | 23:34 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'm not sure rizen objects to christian values, just to theocratic extremes and religious prejudice | 23:34 |
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| @rizen | i don't at all object to christian values | 23:34 |
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| @rizen | or muslim values | 23:34 |
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| @rizen | or Buddhist values | 23:34 |
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| @rizen | values are a good thing | 23:35 |
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| @rizen | morality is a good thing | 23:35 |
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| @rizen | extremism, in any form, is a bad thing | 23:35 |
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| @rizen | hate is a bad thing | 23:35 |
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| @rizen | war is a bad thing | 23:35 |
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| @rizen | intollerance is a bad thing | 23:35 |
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| nuba | im uneducated about other religions' values, but I can assume they pretty much contribute to their follower's growth and I suppose at the core they're all good in providing guidelines | 23:35 |
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| @rizen | for the average person, i'm certain that belief in a deity helps them through the tough times | 23:36 |
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| @rizen | but i also know that the zealots that are in power of religious organizations | 23:37 |
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| @rizen | often abuse their power | 23:37 |
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| @rizen | and their followers often follow blindly | 23:37 |
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| @rizen | it's true of both religion and politics | 23:37 |
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| @rizen | because, as i see it, they are the same | 23:37 |
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| nuba | that could be said of sports fanatics to some extent, too | 23:38 |
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| nuba | the masses | 23:38 |
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| nuba | some people know how to play 'em | 23:38 |
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| @tavisto | I think that's a load of crap. While you might see that on a black/white level | 23:38 |
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| nuba | and these are dangerous guys | 23:38 |
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| @tavisto | my relationship with Jesus and God is not followed blindly and it surely isn't something on a level as my political beliefs. | 23:39 |
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| juan | i have the next error when i run the next job Send Queued Email Messages Every 5 Minutes | 23:40 |
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| juan | http://webgui.pastebin.com/m33109496 | 23:40 |
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| juan | so i have many email stored in my database | 23:40 |
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| nuba | oops. a on-topic issue! dammit. just when religious debate was about to get interesting!... ;) | 23:40 |
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| -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@21.sub-75-204-162.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] | 23:42 |
| @preaction | if a workflow is undefined, it might mean the workflow is disabled | 23:42 |
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| elnino | preaction: registering false voters DOES matter - they don't do checking afterwards, nor do they tie the ballot to a person, so they can't throw the vote out if they find out that it was an illegal vote. It gets counted! | 23:43 |
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| juan | the workflow is enabled | 23:43 |
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| @preaction | elnino, i'm just saying that the person has to show a photo ID at the polling place, you can't just register and have a vote count, you have to have a person to vote | 23:44 |
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| @preaction | there is the mail-in / provisional thing as well, yes | 23:44 |
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| @preaction | both of those loopholes need to be closed. both to count bad votes or to deny good ones | 23:45 |
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| -!- khenn [n=khenn@97.92.186.139] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] | 23:45 |
| @rizen | tavisto: i said nothing about your relationship with god | 23:45 |
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| @rizen | i was talking about your relationship with your religion | 23:45 |
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| @rizen | they are two different things | 23:45 |
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| @preaction | i would say, like the criminal justice system, if we have to choose, it's better to let bad votes in than to let good votes die | 23:45 |
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| elnino | I dont' want international oversight on our voting. What the international want is not necessarily good for US. - just a little late in this non-webgui related conversation- go vote if you haven't! | 23:45 |
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| -!- juan [n=juangui@201.232.58.66] has left #webgui [] | 23:46 |
| @tavisto | Rizen, we dont need to repeat this debate considering you and I have a history of like 15 years of doing it. | 23:49 |
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| @tavisto | Just realize, you're wrong, go to church blindly and be a sheep as you suggest, and join the constitutional party. The world will be a better place. Amen | 23:50 |
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| @tavisto | Oooh and release the new matrix so I can get more ad money. Amen | 23:51 |
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| elnino | I don't know. Our govenement was build with checks and balances in it. With a democratic majority in the house and senate, it only makes sense to have a republican in place for the "check and balance" The majority of the "work" of the governement is done in congress. | 23:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | Yeah, new Matrix | 23:51 |
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| @tavisto | ooh and I want a pony. amen | 23:51 |
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| elnino | preaction - yes, ID should be shown, that would help. I"m still catching up on the thread =) | 23:52 |
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| elnino | there is a lot to be improved upon, but the system was designed very well - kudo to our founding fathers. | 23:53 |
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| * preaction going voting | 23:53 |
| @rizen | tavisto: just agree that religion must die for humanity to survive and i'll buy you a pony and release matrix 2.0. =) | 23:53 |
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| @tavisto | humanity won't survive. There's an end to it. And then there could be more depending on the choices you make while you (and it) is here. | 23:55 |
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| @tavisto | But maybe perldreamer would agree to that so we can get the new matrix. | 23:56 |
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| -!- BartJol [n=plainstu@52-167.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net] has joined #webgui | 23:58 |
| --- Day changed Wed Nov 05 2008 |
| +perlDreamer | BartJol, I have an i18n bug for you to fix | 00:00 |
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| BartJol | for me? | 00:00 |
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| BartJol | ok | 00:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | I keep getting your vacation email notice in Dutch | 00:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | It needs to do an IP check on the respondant and send them an appropriately i18n'ed message ;) | 00:01 |
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| BartJol | strange, mormally it is send only once | 00:01 |
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| BartJol | :) | 00:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | Yes, once per vacation. | 00:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | That means twice in 3 months | 00:01 |
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| BartJol | you donn't wanna know that I'm free? | 00:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | Free? | 00:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | Like no cost? | 00:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | or not working? | 00:02 |
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| BartJol | not working | 00:02 |
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| BartJol | normally I'm not that expensive | 00:02 |
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| BartJol | depends on the job | 00:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | I might need a low-cost website design. You interested? | 00:03 |
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| BartJol | if you want it to be visible it was cheap, I might be you man | 00:03 |
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| BartJol | depends also whther you arrange it via ProcoliX or not | 00:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | Koen will charge me karma for it, so might be best to work with you directly ;) | 00:04 |
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| * perlDreamer heads to the showers, bbl | 00:05 |
| BartJol | so you have plenty of time and want a really ugly design? | 00:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | ugly design? I thought you were a designer who became a programmer? | 00:05 |
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| BartJol | no a translator | 00:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | oh | 00:06 |
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| BartJol | but I have designed a website | 00:06 |
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| BartJol | and my own: www.bartjol.nl and webgui.bartjol.nl | 00:06 |
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| +perlDreamer | dude, you have hair in that picture! | 00:07 |
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| +perlDreamer | ok, I'm really going to the showers now | 00:07 |
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| @rizen | ok need opinion quick from devs that are here | 00:10 |
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| @rizen | i'm thinking about rewriting the SyndicatedContent asset this weekend | 00:10 |
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| @rizen | just for something to do | 00:10 |
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| @rizen | and i'm trying to decide between two modules: | 00:11 |
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| @rizen | http://search.cpan.org/~kawasaki/XML-FeedPP-0.36/lib/XML/FeedPP.pm | 00:11 |
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| @rizen | http://search.cpan.org/~simonw/XML-Feed-0.23/lib/XML/Feed.pm | 00:11 |
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| @rizen | the first is a pure perl version | 00:11 |
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| @rizen | the second relies on a dozen or so other libraries | 00:11 |
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| @rizen | the first is slower than the second, not that it really matters for our purposes | 00:12 |
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| BartJol | mmm, I'm not dev enough, but I do have a night of election news to go | 00:12 |
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| @rizen | the first is a self contained, small module, the second is enormous | 00:12 |
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| @rizen | the second may be more standards compliant, because it's built on the shoulders of giants | 00:12 |
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| @rizen | they both seem equally easy to use | 00:13 |
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| @rizen | both support RSS 2, 1, .9 | 00:13 |
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| @rizen | both support Atom feeds | 00:13 |
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| @rizen | the programmer in me tells me to use the one that uses a billion modules | 00:13 |
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| @rizen | the sys admin in me tells me to use the pure perl one because it will use a lot less memory | 00:14 |
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| @preaction | which of those dozen do we already use? | 00:14 |
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| @rizen | we use about 1/3 of the dozen | 00:14 |
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| @rizen | maybe as much as 1/2 | 00:14 |
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| @rizen | but certainly not more than that | 00:14 |
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| @Haarg | XML::Atom doesn't want to install for me | 00:15 |
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| @rizen | i got both to install | 00:16 |
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| @rizen | however XML::Atom does look like a pile | 00:16 |
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| @rizen | any thoughts, opinions, scathing rebuttle? | 00:17 |
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| @preaction | heh, simonw just uploaded XML::Feed 0.3 :: [16:17] * CPAN2 upload: XML-Feed-0.3 by SIMONW | 00:17 |
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| @rizen | oh and the reason i'm talking about using these two because they both have a super sweet way of merging feeds | 00:18 |
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| @preaction | depending on the amount used, most likely the XML::Feed will be more advantageous than the PP one | 00:18 |
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| @rizen | and because they both support both RSS and Atom | 00:18 |
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| @preaction | er.. amount of memory used | 00:18 |
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| @preaction | do those modules also generate feeds? | 00:19 |
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| @rizen | i guess i could write a script that tries them both out and see how big the memory difference is | 00:19 |
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| @rizen | yes | 00:19 |
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| @preaction | so whichever wins we can remove some of the other RSS modules once we create the RSSCapable aspect | 00:19 |
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| @preaction | so the total memory use might remain the same with the bigger one | 00:20 |
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| @rizen | yes | 00:20 |
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| @rizen | we'll be removing all the other RSS modules | 00:20 |
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| @rizen | but that has nothing to do with which one we choose | 00:20 |
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| @rizen | or at least shouldn't | 00:21 |
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| @rizen | i'm going to quickly write a script for each | 00:21 |
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| @rizen | and see how they do | 00:21 |
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| -!- apeiron is now known as voteobama | 00:23 |
| -!- khenn_ [n=khenn@97.92.186.139] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 00:28 |
| -!- knowmad [n=william@97.66.185.250] has left #webgui [] | 00:28 |
| -!- khenn [n=khenn@97.92.186.139] has joined #WebGUI | 00:28 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ | 00:28 |
| @rizen | ok so XML::Feed is 25% larger than XML::FeedPP | 00:32 |
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| @rizen | i suppose i should factor out perl's memory usage before i give that percentage | 00:32 |
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| @rizen | hold please | 00:32 |
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| @rizen | ok on a simple script XML::Feed is 30% larger than FeedPP | 00:34 |
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| @rizen | however | 00:35 |
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| @rizen | XML::Feed lazyloads it's prereqs | 00:35 |
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| @rizen | which means that in practice it will get bigger | 00:35 |
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| @Haarg | XML::Feed also monkey patches XML::Atom | 00:35 |
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| @rizen | XML::Feed appears to be a good module...but unfortunately it's prereq libraries are pretty terrible | 00:36 |
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| @rizen | ok from this overwhelming response, i'm going with XML::FeedPP | 00:37 |
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| @preaction | how much slower is it? just a bit or quite a bit? | 00:37 |
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| @rizen | both Haarg and I are leaning that way, and it appears to just be better | 00:37 |
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| @rizen | not noticably | 00:38 |
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| @rizen | both scripts run in under a second | 00:38 |
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| @rizen | the reason i said it would be slower is simply because it's pure perl | 00:38 |
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| @preaction | good enough for me then | 00:38 |
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| @rizen | but i'll do a Time::HiRes check on them both right now | 00:38 |
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| @rizen | to see | 00:38 |
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| @preaction | use Benchmark instead? | 00:38 |
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| @preaction | it's easier, imho | 00:38 |
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| voteobama | How large is the test data set, though? | 00:39 |
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| @rizen | ok at least on a quick test the pp one is nearly half a second faster | 00:43 |
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| @preaction | should the syndicated content asset be checking for cache integrity? as in, if the cache returns a bad object, the syndicated content asset dies (and takes the rest of the page with it) | 00:44 |
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| +perlDreamer | how about if it just logs a message and sends an email to doug@plainblack.com instead? | 00:45 |
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| @preaction | are you threatening me? i'll have your head for this! | 00:45 |
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| @rizen | XML::Feed time: 0.236068 | 00:45 |
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| @rizen | XML::FeedPP time: 0.052435 | 00:46 |
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| @rizen | that's after taking network out of it | 00:46 |
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| @preaction | dear jesus | 00:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | Has anyone rated the two modules on CPAN? | 00:46 |
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| @rizen | just loading the file from the filesystem | 00:46 |
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| @rizen | both are rated | 00:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | Are there bugs logged against them that are regularly fixed? | 00:46 |
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| @rizen | both have open bugs | 00:47 |
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| +perlDreamer | Tests suites? CPAN smoke results? | 00:47 |
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| @rizen | both see regular fixes | 00:47 |
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| @rizen | though PP is fixed more regularly | 00:47 |
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| @rizen | but it's also newer | 00:47 |
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| @rizen | so that's to be expected | 00:47 |
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| @rizen | both have nice test suites | 00:48 |
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| @preaction | i put my vote in for XML::FeedPP | 00:48 |
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| @rizen | though PP has way more tests | 00:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | XML::FeedPP++ | 00:48 |
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| @preaction | well, it also handles more internally, as opposed to relying on external modules (which have their own test suites) | 00:48 |
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| @rizen | both pass on over 20 systems | 00:48 |
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| @rizen | true preaction | 00:49 |
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| @rizen | ok XML::FeedPP it is | 00:49 |
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| @rizen | seems to have votes from everyone who has chimed in | 00:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | hm | 00:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | 9 devs in the room | 00:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | 3 votes | 00:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | 33% turnout | 00:50 |
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| @preaction | 4 | 00:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | 4? | 00:50 |
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| @preaction | my vote counts damnit | 00:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | rizen, perlDreamer, preaction and... | 00:50 |
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| @preaction | rizen, haarg, perlDreamer, preaction | 00:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | 4/9 is 44% turnout | 00:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | (sorry, Haarg) | 00:51 |
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| @preaction | that's not bad | 00:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | Let's hope the American voters do better | 00:51 |
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| @preaction | probably better than today's national election | 00:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | maybe we should require a double majority | 00:52 |
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| +perlDreamer | that would get people to turn out for the presidential election | 00:52 |
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| @preaction | not really. you can't make people care | 00:52 |
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| BartJol | I would vote, but they don't let me... | 00:53 |
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| @preaction | conscript armies have never worked | 00:53 |
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| @preaction | BartJol, you could fill out a provisional ballot, just don't expect it to get counted | 00:53 |
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| BartJol | mmm, my friend that would come by an hour ago isn't here yet | 00:53 |
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| BartJol | or he's drunk, or doesn't understand how my doorbell works (we have 1 downstairs and one at our front door on the 11th) | 00:54 |
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| @rizen | BartJol, I voted on your behalf | 00:54 |
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| BartJol | ah | 00:55 |
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| BartJol | thanks | 00:55 |
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| @rizen | instead of casting my ballot for me, which is what i would have done, i cast it for who you wanted to vote for | 00:55 |
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| @rizen | =) | 00:55 |
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| BartJol | and, was it the vaginal douche or the turd sandwich? | 00:55 |
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| @rizen | the vaginal douche of course | 00:56 |
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| @preaction | the people have spoken, and we want four more years of Douchebag! | 00:56 |
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| @rizen | at least it will be clean when we're done | 00:56 |
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| BartJol | ah, who do I want to vote for? | 00:56 |
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| @rizen | BartJol, when you were here I'm pretty sure you said Obama. | 00:56 |
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| @rizen | XML::FeedPP is so damn cool that I think the whole Syndicated Content asset could be written in about 1/4 the code | 00:57 |
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| BartJol | rizen: ok your memory is ok | 00:57 |
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| +perlDreamer | with tests? | 00:58 |
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| @rizen | no the tests would take a bit more...but not much | 00:59 |
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| @rizen | since the module itself is doing most of the work | 01:00 |
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| @rizen | not many tests would have to be written | 01:00 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: graham * r8256 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm: get setRow to work with field names with non-word characters | 01:07 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: graham * r8257 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (SQL.pm SQL/ResultSet.pm): document return values of WebGUI::SQL->write and WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet->execute | 01:07 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: graham * r8258 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetLineage.pm): sped up lineage changes significantly | 01:07 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: graham * r8259 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.6.1-7.6.2.pl: don't add javascript i18n content handler if it already exists | 01:07 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: graham * r8260 /WebGUI/t/Mail/Send.t: turn off email to log properly for mail tests | 01:07 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: graham * r8261 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (AssetLineage.pm Cache/Database.pm Operation/Friends.pm): fix lineage cache clearing, syntax warning, db cache storable usage | 01:07 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: graham * r8262 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: not allowed to add calendar events if in can edit group but not can add event group | 01:07 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: graham * r8263 /WebGUI/t/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo/view.t: update Gallery Photo test to reflect proper template variables | 01:07 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: graham * r8264 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/DataTable.t: fix DataTable test | 01:07 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: graham * r8265 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.6.2 release | 01:07 |
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| +perlDreamer | rizen: Do you want me to fix the naming problem with SiteIndex, too? | 01:28 |
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| @rizen | sure | 01:29 |
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| @rizen | although graham is in mid-release right now i think | 01:29 |
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| @Haarg | just a sec | 01:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | okay | 01:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, it might be better if you fix it yourself then. | 01:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | It's one less untracked/off time commit | 01:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | Because I don't think we should release it when it doesn't work right | 01:30 |
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| @Haarg | release is already done though | 01:30 |
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| @Haarg | what is the issue? | 01:30 |
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| @rizen | perlDreamer: that's what betas are for | 01:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | Naming problem with Content/SiteIndex.pm | 01:31 |
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| @rizen | pd it will go into the next release | 01:31 |
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| @rizen | your fix i mean | 01:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | s/siteindex/sitemap/; | 01:31 |
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| @rizen | he's already got the release done | 01:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | ah | 01:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | okay | 01:31 |
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| BartJol | strange, updat gives an error that it failed, but it did work | 01:44 |
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| BartJol | www_bartjol_nl 7.6.1-7.6.2 | 01:45 |
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| BartJol | Backing up www_bartjol_nl (7.6.1)...OK | 01:45 |
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| BartJol | Correcting the Manage Workflow link in configuration file... DONE! | 01:45 |
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| BartJol | Adding a pre-text property to Thingy fields... DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Duplicate column name 'pretext' at ../lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 137. | 01:45 |
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| BartJol | <h1>Problem With Request</h1> | 01:45 |
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| BartJol | We have encountered a problem with your request. Please use your back button and try again. | 01:45 |
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| BartJol | If this problem persists, please contact us with what you were trying to do and the time and date of the problem.<br /><br />Bart Jol<br />bart@bartjol.nl<br />http://www.bartjol.nlLabel not found for "last WEBGUI_FATAL" at ../lib/WebGUI/Session/ErrorHandler.pm line 235. | 01:45 |
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| BartJol | Processing upgrade executable failed! | 01:45 |
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| BartJol | The upgrade process failed and has stopped so you can either restore | 01:45 |
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| BartJol | from backup, or attempt to fix the problem and continue. | 01:45 |
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| BartJol | oops | 01:45 |
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| @tavisto | I noticed that google sitemap was added in 7.6.2. Is this configurable through an interface? | 01:46 |
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| @tavisto | er siteindex | 01:46 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: jt * r8266 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.2-beta: Release 7.6.2-beta | 01:49 |
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| BartJol | mmm it first went through the same process for the same site and then it was ok | 01:51 |
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| @rizen | tavisto: no, it's just auto generated | 01:51 |
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| @rizen | it may eventually be turned into an asset | 01:51 |
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| BartJol | ah, it sees 2 config files | 01:52 |
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| @tavisto | ah okay, so it just takes the pages in the site and formats them to be included in the site index automatically? | 01:59 |
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| @tavisto | for instance if I have a site with 30 pages, how does it know which pages to include or does it include them all by default? | 02:00 |
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| elnino | when I submit a request using a dataform shouldn't I recieve an acknowledgement email? | 02:08 |
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| @preaction | only if you're in the to, cc, or bcc field | 02:11 |
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| elnino | i'm in the "from"... and there is a template for "achknowledgement" - OH. I guess that isn't an ackknowledgement email template. my bad. Sounds like a good rfe. I'll post one. =) | 02:16 |
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| @rizen | BartJol: sarah says *kiss* | 03:19 |
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| @rizen | tavisto: sorry i didn't get back to you | 03:20 |
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| @rizen | it puts in all pages that are visible by "Everybody" | 03:20 |
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| BartJol | rizen: thanks | 03:20 |
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| SDuensin | Evening. | 03:28 |
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| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. I need to create a webgui group that consists of all the users in an existing group that don't have the user profile flag 'opt out from mailing list' checked. | 03:45 |
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| @preaction | build it from an SQL query perhaps? | 03:45 |
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| Radix-wrk | yeah, that's what I was thinking.. was going to ask if that was going to work | 03:46 |
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| Radix-wrk | then I can use the email all users in this group option to send update emails to those users | 03:46 |
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| @preaction | should work | 03:46 |
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| Radix-wrk | okey.. just need to work on the sql query then | 03:47 |
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| Radix-wrk | thanks preaction.. just needed confirmation from someone that I was down the right track :) | 03:48 |
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| Radix-wrk | okey.. this _seems_ to work.. but the numbers of optouts don't add up.. so I'm definitely missing something.. anyone care to check my sql syntax? | 04:16 |
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| Radix-wrk | http://webgui.pastebin.com/m281bef74 | 04:17 |
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| @preaction | Radix-wrk, what about when that column IS NULL? | 04:18 |
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| Radix-wrk | shouldn't c.fieldData<>1 cater for that? | 04:19 |
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| @preaction | no | 04:19 |
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| Radix-wrk | Oh.. there goes my logic then | 04:19 |
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| @preaction | it's a quirk with NULL in MySQL | 04:19 |
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| @preaction | essentially, any test against NULL is false | 04:20 |
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| @preaction | except for "IS NULL" | 04:20 |
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| Radix-wrk | so what's the check in sql - 'c.fieldData=0 or c.fieldData is null' | 04:20 |
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| @preaction | try it, it sounds like it should work | 04:20 |
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| Radix-wrk | add some parens and it works a treat.. sweet.. returned 4503 rows | 04:21 |
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| Radix-wrk | cheers.. didn't know the gotcha with nulls | 04:22 |
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| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. how often does the 'User Count' change in the group list for sql groups? | 04:48 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: patspam * r8267 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Added 2 new convenience Operators: IsEmpty and IsNotEmpty | 04:48 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: patspam * r8268 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Add new report table (and sql file), and the survey now does reporting. | 04:48 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: patspam * r8269 /branch/WebGUI_flux/Survey.sql: Added missing field to db schema: groupToEditSurvey | 04:48 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: patspam * r8270 /branch/WebGUI_flux/survey_templates.wgpkg: Individual templates probably don't need to be enabled as individual packages | 04:48 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: patspam * r8271 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (lib/WebGUI/Flux/Rule.pm t/Flux/Rule.t): | 04:48 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: Squashed a bug where Flux wouldn't update dateRuleFirstTrue for a rule that was previously false | 04:48 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: Added a test case to explicitly test this for future regressions. | 04:48 |
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| CIA-6 | WebGUI: patspam * r8272 /branch/WebGUI_flux/t/Crypt/Crypt.t: Improved WebGUI::Crypt tests | 04:48 |
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| @preaction | Radix-wrk, there's a "cache groups for how long" setting in the group configuration, that's how often | 04:49 |
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| Radix-wrk | but that indicates how long it's been cached for, no? | 04:50 |
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| Radix-wrk | at the moment my new groups say 0 | 04:50 |
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| @preaction | oh, SQL groups don't have any real members | 04:50 |
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| Radix-wrk | so wondering if the sql got mangled somehow in the group | 04:51 |
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| @preaction | a person's membership is calculated as necessary | 04:51 |
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| Radix-wrk | Any way I can test to see if it's working? | 04:51 |
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| @preaction | make a group that has you and only you and try to send an e-mail to it? | 04:51 |
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| @preaction | or use the "emailOverride" setting in the config to make sure only you get the e-mails? | 04:51 |
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| Radix-wrk | Hmm.. | 04:52 |
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