WebGUI irc logs from: 2014-07.log

--- Log opened Tue Jul 01 00:00:42 2014
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zylopfaCheers Webguians!04:49
zylopfascrottie, awesome awesome awesome initiative with the kickstarter project!!!04:51
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kaare__I can't 08:40
kaare__I can't seem to find a description of the flow through WebGUI of a web request. Does such a thing exist?08:41
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@scrottiehi kaare_22:41
@scrottiehi zylopfa22:41
@scrottieI *should* have written something up on that.  I took a lot of starting programmers through it.22:41
@scrottiecontent handlers first maybe.  one of them serves assets.22:42
@scrottienot quiet here right now22:50
kaare_I'm used to node based CMS'es where the node type together with the node's data defines the actions. Not sure how WebGUI knows what to do with at request. That's why I asked.23:16
@scrottiefor each URL, there's an asset type stored in the form of the class name of the Perl package that implements it23:20
@scrottiebut that's for assets.  things happen before that gets there.  one content handler does auth stuff first, for example.23:20
@scrottieit goes down the list of content handlers listed in the .conf file and gives each a go at the request.  the asset handler is just one of those.23:20
kaare_So you list the urls where, in a config file?23:23
kaare_or how does it know that /shovel/green should invoke Foo::Bar with 'shovel' as the article and 'green' as a parameter (if it can do that)?23:40
@scrottiethe URLs aren't in the config file.23:44
@scrottieif you an edit an asset, the URL is one of the fields23:44
@scrottie(turn admin on, and then click the "edit" link by a piece of content on the page; each individual piece of content has its own edit link)23:45
@scrottieusually only Page Layouts have URLs that matter23:49
@scrottiethe system auto-generates them for content that gets added to those, though they can be edited23:50
@scrottiebtw, in case anyone missed it:  https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2083389021/create-perl-competition-to-the-php-content-managem23:50
kaare_o i c, thanks23:58
@scrottiesure thing23:59
--- Day changed Wed Jul 02 2014
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zylopfaCheers webguians00:08
@scrottieheeeey zylopfa00:08
zylopfaAwesome with the kickstarter scrottie !!00:09
@scrottiethank you00:09
zylopfaI so hope it comes through00:09
zylopfaI donated myself ofcourse00:09
@scrottiedouble thank you00:09
zylopfaTripple thanks to you!00:09
@scrottieI'm surprised the Perl community got behind it as much as they had00:09
zylopfaI hope it will get overfunded00:10
@scrottieI'm trying to reach out to places that use wG now00:10
@scrottieor used it in the recent past00:10
zylopfaIts bullshit that all out there is some obscure php hacks00:10
zylopfaI like the aproach that you made installer for osx00:11
zylopfaimportant with the designers to get onboard also00:11
@scrottiedoesn't support OSX yet.  need to do that.  but yeah.  that was a much requested feature.  people wanted to test and develop locally.00:11
zylopfaI use wg 7 professionlly myself for hosting 00:11
zylopfaHavent gotten much experience with wg8 yet00:12
@scrottieno one seems to like the admin, and danny_mk is working on reworking that with modern JS toolkits00:12
zylopfaIn wg7 i like the api00:12
@scrottieI'm hoping to be able to help him do that00:12
@scrottieAPI is really the same in 8.  request/response stuff got split out a bit rather than all just being in request.00:13
zylopfaAhh awesome scrottie 00:13
@scrottiemostly stuff was directly translated to use Moose.  asset definitions look like this:  http://slowass.net/~scott/tmp/Battleship.pm.txt00:13
zylopfaI am doing a CMS system atm using webgui 7, mostly I use content handlers and then jquery on the client side00:14
zylopfasorry i mean a CRM system00:14
zylopfaall those 3 letter abbrevs00:14
@scrottieyou should use 8.00:14
zylopfayeah true00:14
@scrottiethe API/core of 8 is pretty stable, thanks to really good unit tests.00:14
zylopfaYeah the testing is awesome00:15
@scrottiemost of the bugs are related to the admin.  but actually I fixed a lot of those.00:15
zylopfacan i ask a novice question?00:15
@scrottiesweet.  mind if I tell twitter about http://www.duxclouding.dk/?00:15
@scrottiesure thing00:15
zylopfaSure go ahead scrottie 00:15
zylopfaWhy postgres?00:15
zylopfaIs it better than mysql?00:15
@scrottieI think it's a lot better, yeah.00:15
@scrottieMySQL tends to crash on busy sites.00:16
@scrottiethere's kind of a running joke about it.00:16
zylopfahaaa damn00:16
zylopfahahaaha thanks for the enlightenment00:16
@scrottieand that definitely happend a lot on some busy sites I worked on for PlainBlack.00:16
@scrottieand MySQL has a lot of bugs and just general lameness00:16
@scrottiethere's no set of arguments you can give mysqldump that will give you a dump that you can for sure load again00:16
zylopfaIs it bad that oracle manages it?00:16
@scrottieyou can dump it once and try to undump it and see that it has one problem, fix that, do it again, hit another problem, and so on, and eventually get to a point where the problem it has, you can't fix.00:17
zylopfahaa damnn thats bad00:17
@scrottieyeah, Oracle has been bad.  they've been ramming features through even more quickly with less testing, and making the code quality worse.00:17
@scrottiethings like subqueries will return incorrect results.00:17
zylopfahaaa thats insane00:17
@scrottieso a lot of people hate MySQL.00:17
zylopfayeah i can see why that is00:17
@scrottieI don't hate it, I just like Postgres a lot better ;)00:17
zylopfaIsn't postgres a better licence model also?00:18
zylopfai read it was more lax00:18
@scrottieI don't know.  different people prefer different license models so I don't know if one is always better.  but I don't know Postgres' is00:18
kaare_It's BSD style.00:18
zylopfaahh ok00:19
zylopfaI realll really hope the kickstarter will go well00:19
kaare_Means you can do anything with it, commercially00:19
@scrottieI think I prefer GPL over BSD, but I'm also not a company00:19
@scrottieany help spreading the word is appreciated.00:20
kaare_I'm not a fan of any particular license. As long as it's open source00:20
zylopfado you have many contacts in perl community scrottie ?00:20
zylopfaI only know myself here in denmrk, who love perl00:20
@scrottieyeah.  I'm not part of the inner circle, but I've given talks at about five or six different YAPCs and I wrote a Perl book once.00:20
zylopfaWooo sweet00:20
kaare_zylopfa: Where in Denmark?00:20
@scrottiehrm.  I've heard of a Nordic Perl Workshop but never made it there myself.  not sure how many Danes go to that.00:21
zylopfaIn copenhagen00:21
kaare_scrottie: I think around 40 last attendance00:21
zylopfaI dont kmnow what i would so without perls regex <300:21
zylopfabuild in and easy accessible in the language00:21
kaare_zylopfa: We are a few Danish Perlers :-)00:22
zylopfanot some shit you need to create objects on first00:22
zylopfaOiii nicee kaare_ !!!00:22
zylopfaGood to see!!00:22
kaare_You have Perl work, or it's a personal interest?00:22
zylopfaYeah i got m y own company, working on a CRM system at the moment, using webgui 7's api00:23
zylopfaits a system to manage small business's 00:23
zylopfawith invoicing, bills, mail system, dashboard, work plan etc.00:24
kaare_Nice login box there :-)00:24
zylopfaNot using wobjects though , but using the auth system, group system and content manager etc.00:24
zylopfahaa thanks00:24
zylopfathe main site to show it is: http://www.duxclouding.dk00:24
kaare_ok, so how's business?00:24
zylopfaIts ok but not much perl work other than the project i work on00:25
@scrottieI've seen some really large wG sites built mostly out of content handlers.  and surveys, in one case.00:25
zylopfaI like the auith api and the group api 00:25
zylopfaand many of the other nifty features00:25
zylopfaEach customer of my crm system, has his own webgui site00:26
@scrottieI did a talk once on using wG as an app framework.  having accounts, messaging system, groups, password recovery, etc out of the box saves a lot of time re-inventing wheels.00:26
zylopfaso i have scripts that setup email and the domain etc.00:26
zylopfaYou can see the underlying crm system, here, its not much there yet, its being re-designed00:30
zylopfalogin: test password: passw0rd000:30
kaare_Svend Tveskæg is your customer? Cool!00:32
zylopfahaa yeah good old test data!00:32
zylopfaI madre a complete mail system for it also, kinda like gmail00:33
zylopfaso it can handle corporate mail00:33
zylopfaBut its not up in the new design yet00:33
zylopfaMannnnyyy quirks when making a mailsystem :(00:33
kaare_scrottie: How many corporate customers using WebGUI do you know of?00:33
kaare_Coukd you approach some of them to sponsor your request?00:34
kaare_zylopfa: Been there. Don't want to go there again :-!00:34
zylopfahaa yeah!!00:35
zylopfaand ofc m$ has its own format for mail attachments called .dat or somehing where they package atachments, so have to handle that also00:35
kaare_handling MIME and especially Microsofts versions of same00:36
zylopfaThink I ironed most of the things out, got 10 beta customers on it now00:36
zylopfabeen running a year with 1 big customer00:36
zylopfaAnd handeling all sorts of webmail that is not following the standard to the letter00:37
zylopfanot specifying encoding and the like00:37
kaare_Being a perlist you should use qpsmtpd for smtp, btw00:38
zylopfakaare_, when the company gets mail, it also handle any attachents and OCR scan them, so the data can be used in the invoice system00:39
zylopfawhen the company gets bills in the mail00:39
kaare_zylopfa: Impressive!00:39
zylopfathen it automatically ocr scan it and put the data in the billing module, so they can be signed off on 00:39
zylopfaAnd every mail as it comes in gets attached to a customer in the system00:40
zylopfaso you can always see in the customer profile the correspondance00:40
zylopfaand you can see if its reply to one of the bills you send to customers or if its reply to a quote you gave the customer00:41
zylopfaeverything gets auto-labeled so you can always track it00:42
kaare_Nice talking to you guys. I've got some things to do before nightie night. So l8r00:46
zylopfatake care kaare_ nice to meet a danish perlie!!00:46
@scrottielater kaare_!00:46
kaare_And zylopfa, check in on cph.pm sometime. Or perhaps we can talk business.00:46
zylopfasure thign! will do!00:47
zylopfathanks a lot00:47
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@scrottiehowdy, vanstyn22:15
vanstynhowdy :)22:16
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jabberwokall mimsy were the borogoves!  Greetings, all15:08
jabberwokTopic is broken.   http://wiki.webgui.org   --> 404 ??   And http://webgui.pastebin.com  seems to go just to pastebin.  15:15
ckotilyeah the vhost looks busted for the wiki. however, http://www.webgui.org/wiki16:08
ckotiland the pastebin.com url is just a wildcard it looks like http://jabberwok.pastebin.com16:08
jabberwokgracias, mi amigo.  ... i've been a WordPress sorta-developer for a few years now and am itching to get back to Perl. WP is going in all the wrong directions imho. and ruby-on-rails fried my brain for a few months, run away sir robin!16:12
ckotilwebgui is a solid platform. the sky is the limit to what you can accomplish. and it's all perl :)16:13
ckotilthere hasnt been much new development work on it however. 16:14
jabberwokhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2083389021/create-perl-competition-to-the-php-content-managem   ... i've known scrottie since FreeBSD 3 days, we worked on a few projects before the .com_bust 16:16
jabberwoki moved from phx to jacksonville florida and find that the .pm here has been moribund for years, ... i'm out to change that16:18
ckotilmmm scrottie16:19
ckotilheck yeah. he's a good guy16:19
ckotilhas helped me out a lot over the years in here16:19
jabberwokstill trying to wrap my brain around Moose and all the "new" perl-isms16:32
ckotili installed 8 pry 2-3 yrs ago now. never did anything with it. im an 8 noob16:33
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-!- scrottie changed the topic of #webgui to: Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com17:53
@scrottiedo people read the topic ever anywhere anymore?17:53
-!- scrottie changed the topic of #webgui to: Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com Wiki: http://webgui.org/wiki Ask, we're lonely17:53
@scrottiejabberwok was talking about working on a WB->wG converter, which would be awesome.  I think Paul Driver or haarg or someone *started* one but I dont' remember who.17:55
@scrottiedid anyone happen to notice on the forums?17:55
jabberwokre: topic, cheers scrottie.17:58
@scrottiejabberwok, if you have some time, maybe ask around?  that would be an awesome bit of hype fuel for the Kickstarter17:58
@scrottieI love the thing that make people go "oh, shit" like that17:59
@scrottieI gave an Atari 2600 programming talk, and then in the comments, showed off Perl->6502 code translation17:59
@scrottiejust to try to convince people I was crazy17:59
@scrottiethen they learn to pay attention =)18:00
@scrottieso we need this.18:00
@scrottiespeaking of crazy, I have to walk over to the motorcycle shop to talk to them about Princess TinyCar that I left parked in their lot18:00
@scrottiebbiaf, one way or another18:00
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ToApolytoXaosgreetings everyone.18:49
* ToApolytoXaos added webgui channel to favorites ;)18:49
-!- ichesnokov_ is now known as ichesnokov18:55
ToApolytoXaosi am still learning Perl but it's not that hard comparing other languages I have used already. Thus far, I can honestly say I *think* I now understand how archaeologists feel when they discover a new script and try to decipher it; that's how i feel with Perl. every single character has a meaning and you better understand its logic; that's wickedly brilliant!18:59
ToApolytoXaosbtw, is there a suggestion page anywhere online to share a few thoughts?18:59
ichesnokovabout what?19:00
ichesnokovwebgui or Perl itself? :)19:01
ToApolytoXaosthings that wG could adapt and attract new people19:01
ToApolytoXaosas a well known and inspiring figure once said (Steve Jobs that is), "if there is no need, create one; we call it cult!"19:02
ToApolytoXaoslet's see how can we attract people: what most of us, human beings, adore is usually a good looking shinny object; either that is a pair of shoes, a car, a furniture.19:04
ToApolytoXaosWordPress conceived that need quite early and introduced it in the form of theme. wG is admitted doing so, but based on official website, the site looks...old :/19:05
ToApolytoXaosi would like, with the first chance i start feeling comfortable with my Perl knowledge, to import existing themes from WordPress to wG.19:06
ToApolytoXaosthis way i could start making a living offering my theming services lol19:06
ToApolytoXaosbut i haven't found an article with wG's syntax.19:07
ichesnokovI'm wondering why scrottie's kickstarter campaign is not in this channel's topic19:10
ToApolytoXaosi have it opened and just read it19:13
ToApolytoXaosthe description is brilliant, but the video not very convincing lol19:13
ichesnokovheh, right.19:13
ToApolytoXaosi'm not a designer, but i think the official website should change to a flat design URGENTLY19:13
ichesnokovAs I understand the official owner (plain black corp) does not give a s..t.19:14
ckotili wonder what they're doing these days to stay relevant 19:16
ckotilbc im sure the webgui support contracts are drying up19:16
ichesnokovI also dislike that the site constantly states that installing webgui is hard. If I'd had a plain list of "apt-get install $something" and a list of Perl packages that should be installed directly from CPAN, I'd install it in 5 minutes.19:20
ckotilwre ftw19:21
ckotili did the source thing for a while tho19:21
ichesnokovwre is only for CentOS, isn't it?19:22
ckotilthey offer a 32bit build for centos19:22
ichesnokovSounds funny these days.19:22
ckotilbut there is a guide to build it from source for centos and ubuntu19:22
ckotili was in the middle of building the latest for 64bit centos, when our openstack cluster went tits up19:22
ckotilDell is replacing the mobo tomororw 19:23
ToApolytoXaoshow about scrottie ask Plain Black Corp to either transfer rights to a free foundation so community start evolving?19:25
ToApolytoXaosbecause frankly as things currently are, are not the best imho19:25
ToApolytoXaosin worst case scenario is to do what he had suggested in kickstarter by forking the project19:29
ToApolytoXaosIn my opinion that should have been in the first place19:29
ichesnokovBtw, how do I start Spectre if I did a source install?19:30
ToApolytoXaosfirst create the new project with a catchy name, then create a foundation around it in order to protect it, and then start bringing in people and money19:30
ichesnokovOk, found it in the docs.19:39
@scrottieToApolytoXaos, yeah, I'm not super great at video and stuff.  I need to try to redo that.  but that was take about #30.19:49
@scrottiesome of the earlier ones were less smooth but had more energy19:49
@scrottiehelp welcome too19:49
@scrottiere: what PlainBlack is doing these days, they did thegamecrafter.com and a few other cool things19:50
@scrottieclient development work is okay, and supporting an open source system commercialy is okay, but creating your own ideas is better.19:50
-!- scrottie changed the topic of #webgui to: http://webgui.pastebin.com to share code, http://webgui.org/wiki for docs, https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2083389021/create-perl-competition-to-the-php-content-managem to finish wG819:51
@scrottiesince you requested =)19:51
@scrottieI can't solve every problem at once, and fixing webgui.org is lower on my list of priorities than making wG itself look good.  if I do that, PB could theoretically upgrade.19:55
ichesnokovscrottie, do tests currently pass (on any branch)?19:56
ToApolytoXaosi think it would be wiser to fork wG and continue as you wish without depending on a corporation or any form of company19:56
@scrottieToApolytoXaos, perhaps.  I'm not in a hurry to do that.  and asking for funding for six months is already ambitious.  perhaps too ambitious.19:57
@scrottiethe thing is, I have to eat too.19:57
@scrottieit's easy to say "I'm going to fix everything", but actually doing it requires resources.19:57
ToApolytoXaosi don't disagree with this; on the contrary, i understand exactly your point and how you feel about it19:57
@scrottiewhat I'm hoping to see is if I can get a few basics taken care of and do some coordination, then other people can step up and help with things -- designing a replacement for webgui.org and things like that19:58
* ichesnokov is trying to run tests on master... and gets a bunch of failed ones19:59
ToApolytoXaosbut for sure i can honestly say people would pay a visit to official website and be like "naaah, not looking good; plus it's in Perl!"19:59
ToApolytoXaosfor some reason people adapted the "ugly" with Perl in web terms lol19:59
@scrottieyeah, tests aren't fantastic.  Doug kept breaking things (fixing, breaking, fixing, breaking)19:59
@scrottieand generally not finishing it.19:59
@scrottiescope creep.19:59
@scrottiethe kickstarter needs a kick in the pants.20:00
@scrottiejaberwok's proposed wordpress->wg upgarder might do that.20:00
@scrottiegenerate some buzz.20:00
@scrottieI've been trying to reach out to various major Perl using hosting companies trying to get them to buy in, in their own interest, but they're not talking to me.20:00
ckotilwe're an all perl shop20:02
@scrottieckotil, my logic was that hosting places like Pair make a lot of money hosting WordPress sites for people.  if they helped fund wG8 and the wG8 community dev site (to be created) featured their banner, that could create business for them.  but apparently they don't see it that way.  still, if IU wants to support this, they're more than welcome to.20:04
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, people tend to sell "look" and not functionality. at least, that's the logic wordpress is using. that's why you see everywhere wordpress "experts" all over the place.20:05
@scrottieToApolytoXaos, absolutely.  luckily, some people like ckotil have themed wG beautifully. 20:05
@scrottiewould you like to put together a placeholder community site?20:05
@scrottieyup =)20:06
ToApolytoXaoslike, where exactly?20:06
ichesnokovscrottie, are you going to release v8 as a result of you campaign? 20:06
@scrottieichesnokog, yes.20:06
ToApolytoXaosi mean, you have a specific location or you mean to create a site and create community around it?20:06
ckotilscrottie: yeah, it would be nice for big names to buy into wG (again)20:06
@scrottieToApolytoXaos, your name is hard to type.  I'm thinking:  you create something like this:   http://www.hipstersandhamptonites.com/ or whatever looks good.  tell the story visually and briefly.  I can register a domain.20:07
@scrottiebuilding community is part of the kickstarter.20:07
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, what IRC client are you using? does not it support tab completion? lol20:08
ichesnokovhm, yeah, it's really not so hard to type - it's just to<tab> :)20:08
@scrottieincidentally, a friend is working on this:  https://powerbulletin.com/20:08
@scrottieichesnokov, goal is to finish the installer I started (it mostly worked but probably needs attention; danny_mk has videos of it in action on youtube), make wG8 look nice (update themes and rework admin, collaborating with danny_mk)20:09
@scrottiefix major bugs (actually I fixed a lot of bugs in the current admin... it might actually be usable now... feedback welcome)20:10
@scrottieand get a community development process going20:10
@scrottiewhich mostly means cheerleading and documenting things and empowering people20:10
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, is it okay if i continue with my Perl education so I could feel more confident about my knowledge and then offer my help?20:10
ichesnokovscrottie, out of interest - why do you think the installer is needed - why not to install everything manually using just apt-get and e.g. cpanm / Makefile.PL?20:10
@scrottiegiving people like ckotil and danny_mk commit bits to the community repo20:11
@scrottieichesnokov, it has to do things like load a mysql database (which includes installing mysql/maria/percona using the system package manager), replacing ImageMagick with somethuing that *can* be installed reliably (that's a huge problem spot right now), running wG upgrades (needed even on a fresh wG8 install)20:12
ichesnokovHmm, ok. 20:12
@scrottiereplacing ImageMagick is the hold up on putting things on CPAN20:12
@scrottieso, lots of fussy little things that we've wanted to do for years but haven't gotten to20:12
ichesnokovYeah, I know that installing ImageMagick from CPAN can be a problem.20:13
ichesnokov(although it's usually possible to use a package manager)20:13
ichesnokovscrottie, how could I contribute?20:13
@scrottieyeah.  the Perl module has to track the exact apt/yum version or it won't build.20:13
@scrottieichesnokov, contributions to the kickstarter are welcome, of course, but as far as code, making a good looking portal (which I suggested for ToApolytoXaos since they thought it was important) would be good20:14
ToApolytoXaosokay. let me continue with my learning process with Perl and I will be around wG, have no worries about it20:15
@scrottiesomeone started a WordPress->wG importer (convert your WordPress site to a wG one).  I don't remember who.  it was one of my old coworkers at PlainBlack.  tracking that down on github and finishing it (or getting it to a good stopping point and documenting its limitations) would be really awesome20:15
ichesnokovscrottie, I think I could write some code to make wG 8 closer.20:15
@scrottieI want to take advantage of mst's work on deployment systems and my installer logic to create a web site where you type in your hostname, username, and password, and it ssh's in and install wG for you =)20:16
@scrottieichesnokov, cool.  http://webgui.org/8 is the bug tracker.  http://github.com/scrottie/webgui (master branch) is the closest we have to a community repo at the moment.  fork that and send me pull requests.  20:16
ichesnokovscrottie, but I take it the newest branch is WebGUI8, right?20:17
@scrottiehelp with the installer would be most welcome.  the link to it is on the kickstarter at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2083389021/create-perl-competition-to-the-php-content-managem.  that's in a gist on github right now.20:17
@scrottiecorrect.  master is wG820:17
ichesnokovscrottie, why not to add an installer to a separate branch btw? 20:18
@scrottiethat's a good idea.20:19
@scrottiebtw, historically, there was a "webgui runtime environment" -- a cross-Linux self contained build of all of the deps20:19
@scrottiebuild from source20:19
ToApolytoXaosquestion: if rights are the installing issue with ImageMagick, how about using perlbrew? should not this resolve this? i hope i'm not talking nonsense here.20:20
@scrottieit took a lot of work to maintain that.  one of the documented install processes uses that.  so part of the work is getting rid of references to that and deps on that, which includes various scripts20:20
@scrottiedoes perlbrew wrange Debian/CentOS packages?  even if it did, it couldn't really fix version mismatches20:21
ichesnokovToApolytoXaos, perlbrew allows to manage different versions of Perl, I'm not sure how it can help installing ImageMagick20:22
@scrottieactually, as with a lot of things, someone started the work.  in one of wG forks on github, I think it was haarg mostly replaced ImageMagick with Imager20:22
ToApolytoXaosi haven't used it myself; just read more about it online, but i guess it's like virtualenv for Python and RVM for Ruby20:22
ToApolytoXaosichesnokov, it ImageMagick needs admin rights, perlbrew won't need them in order to install it20:23
@scrottiehelp tracking down these pieces and finishing them would be awesokme20:23
ichesnokovToApolytoXaos, you'll need admin rights to install ImageMagick headers I think. 20:24
ToApolytoXaosokay. my current Perl level is at hashes :D does this count or my past PHP knowledge could help a bit?20:24
ichesnokovToApolytoXaos, no, it only hurts :D20:24
@scrottieToApolytoXaos, how are you with git?20:24
ichesnokov(PHP knowledge, i mean)20:24
ToApolytoXaoswell, i'm a git for sure! LOL20:24
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, to use git you mean? i'm doing kind of good, but i'm scared of its merge procedure20:25
ToApolytoXaosand these >>>>> <<<<< characters if you do something wrong20:25
ToApolytoXaoshate my guts of it20:25
@scrottieI think there are visual tools to do merges20:25
ichesnokovscrottie, another idea that came into my mind is to add a couple of wiki pages to GitHub, documenting some steps: installing (either manually or using a tool, or both), testing etc.20:26
@scrottiebut I'm not proposing making you do that20:26
ToApolytoXaosi haven't tested it under Debian20:26
ToApolytoXaosslowly-slowly and i will be using wG exclusively20:26
ToApolytoXaoseven though i really want to see this project with a different name20:26
@scrottieichesnokov, let's keep using the webgui.org wiki for now, even though it's not pretty.  let's wait to fork things until we have the resources.  otherwise we're just spreading thinner.20:26
ToApolytoXaosit is too generic as terms to search on engines :/20:26
@scrottiebut help updating install instructions would be fantastic.  there are some install docs in the webgui git repo.  getting that right would be a good first step.20:27
ichesnokovBTW, Imager has 64 issues on rt.cpan.org, while Image::Magick only 20 :)20:27
@scrottieToApolytoXaos, a code-name for the community project wouldn't be bad.  feel free to suggest one.   but again, I want to wait until we have some momentum before taking any leaps.20:27
ichesnokov(although the number of good reviews is also high)20:28
@scrottieI didn't pick Imager.  if it were up to me, I'd probably have picked NetPBM20:28
@scrottieokay, as long as there are a bunch of smart people here at the same time... what's the first step for including *you*?20:28
@scrottieshould there be a mailing list?20:28
@scrottiefor dev stuff?20:29
ichesnokovYeah, I think having a mailing list would not hurt.20:29
@scrottiethe forums on webgui.org will also happily send you mail if you turn that on20:29
@scrottieI haven't set up a mail list in a long time.  is there a site I should use...?20:30
ckotilchatbot's are useful too for commits20:30
@scrottiewe used to have that running in here.20:30
@scrottieor is it easier just to coordinate via IRC?  that's my inclination but I want to accomodate people too20:30
@scrottieeven though I use irc-II, I'm pretty good at backlogging20:30
ckotilim screen + irssi20:31
ckotilit keeps about a week of backlog20:31
ckotilthen im pretty sure someone here logs online too20:31
ichesnokovscrottie, I think the current trend is google groups :)20:32
@scrottieToApolytoXaos, if you'd like to, fork http://github.com/scrottie/webgui, find the gist of the installer on the kickstarter, copy the related files in, and update the docs.20:32
@scrottiegah.  okay, what's less obnoxious than Google and should be more popular?20:32
@scrottieI think I need to write a todo/how to get involved doc right now20:32
* scrottie nods20:32
ichesnokovscrottie, this is what github's wiki can be useful for btw - such docs20:33
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, okay. but to be fair to you and to the entire community i will continue with my Perl studies so I can do a pretty good job, not just a messy chaos.20:33
ichesnokovHow to get involved etc.20:33
ichesnokovMaybe it is even would be useful to add that to README.pm20:33
@scrottieToApolytoXaos, okay20:33
ichesnokoverr, README.md20:33
@scrottieand you all should fork it and send me pull requests =)20:33
ckotili may do that. there are a lot of things i want to get back into the core20:34
ckotilmakes my upgrade process easier :)20:34
* ichesnokov goes to make a fork20:34
ckotiltho, you're saying pul to wg8?20:34
ckotilnot sure how much of my 7.9.whatever will go back into 820:34
@scrottieckotil, how many custom assets do you have?20:34
ckotiltechincally zero20:35
@scrottiethe new Moose based asset syntax is the largest problem for upgrades20:35
@scrottiethat and lack of testing for upgrades20:35
ckotilbut ive modified a few (i know bad bad)20:35
ckotilbut ive got a lot of custom workflow activities and macros20:35
@scrottienormally PB would upgrade its own sites, and then various customer sites on dev and then staging servers, fix all of the problems found, and *then* encourage other people to upgrade (after backing up)20:35
@scrottiebut we don't have the benefit of all of that testing now20:35
@scrottieso we have to generate our own testing20:35
ckotilyeah, ive always done my own testing on separate 'dev' instances20:36
@scrottieokay.  upgrading might work... caveats about testing aside20:36
ckotilhourly backups of my db in addition to daily's20:36
@scrottie8 ships with a 7 database and upgrades it to 8 so that while we're working on stuff we notice the moment we break that upgrade process20:36
ckotilby daily FS backups. hourly rsyncs to a hot backup host w/ mysql db slave20:36
@scrottieis someone creating a README.md right now or should I start it?20:37
ckotiloh not me. im neck deep in rebuilding a DNS server offsite :/20:37
ckotilyeah, provider didnt have snapshots in their vmware cluster :/20:38
ckotilso im updating an anciate bind install to centos6 chrooted20:38
ckotilancient too20:38
ToApolytoXaosscrottie: is it okay if I suggest a name for project in case you fork it?20:40
@scrottieToApolytoXaos:  of course!20:40
ToApolytoXaosAllion, the ancient Greek name for common onion: Allium Cepa20:40
ToApolytoXaossince it's in Perl and has the onion logo (not the camel; it belongs to O'Reilly)20:41
@scrottiethank you.  I'll create a ticket for that on github.  are you the same name on github?20:41
ckotilah that's pretty good20:41
ToApolytoXaoswe could of course call it Allium Cepa as its code name, but it's too long20:42
ichesnokovscrottie, there is a README file already btw, and it already uses some markdown, so you could just rename it to README.md and add new sections20:42
ToApolytoXaosi wanted something to include "onion" and "green"; this way we could attract Perl developers and Green IT :D20:42
ToApolytoXaoslike cPanel!20:42
* ckotil shudders20:43
ckotilcPanel is fine. but it gets in my way a lot20:43
ckotili'd rather just turn it off20:43
ckotilbut customers seem to like it20:43
@scrottieckotil, are you ckotil on github too?20:44
@scrottieI might wind up working there.  my experience is full time jobs suck all of my energy out and hacking grinds to a halt =(20:44
ckotilscrottie: yes20:45
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, you could work for Duckduckgo20:45
ToApolytoXaosor booking.com20:45
@scrottieichesnokov, I'm thinking of using the "github pages" feature instead of the github wiki.  that would allow for more polish and avoid prematurely duplicating the existing wiki.20:45
@scrottiea full time job would still bringing my hacking to a haul.20:46
@scrottieichesnokov, are you ichesnokov on github as well?20:46
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, thanks for addition. i wanted to ask; does it work only with apache or with other web servers as well?20:48
@scrottie7.x works with Apache20:48
@scrottie8.x is plack, so it runs its own server, but it's a really good idea to put another server in front of it to serve static content (nginx, Apache, whatever)20:49
ToApolytoXaosdarn it...i really need to make it work with Lighttpd20:49
ToApolytoXaosah yeah, i forgot about Plack :D20:49
@scrottieand then proxy dynamic requests (everything except extras/ and uploads/) to the plack server20:49
ToApolytoXaosvery nice20:49
ToApolytoXaostime for a break. brb20:50
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, still interested to find a job? I have found something interesting for you21:44
@scrottieI don't think I made myself adequately21:52
@scrottieI *don't* want a full time job21:52
@scrottiebecause then I can't hack any more21:52
@scrottiedrains me too much21:52
@scrottieidea is, I *don't* work full time for six months but do this instead =)21:55
ToApolytoXaosah i see21:55
ToApolytoXaospart time job then?21:56
@scrottieor consulting work21:56
@scrottieor this kickstarter gets funded21:56
ToApolytoXaosyou need to find someone to create an attractive video...for free or by buy him a beer LOL21:57
@scrottieare you volunteering?21:57
@scrottieI can buy you a beer.21:57
@scrottieor two.21:57
ToApolytoXaoshey, if i knew how to edit a video i would be a billionaire by now :D i have so many ideas running through my head that Pixar would do its best to purchase my brain hahahahaha :D21:59
@scrottieI can never get any of the Linux video editing tools to work21:59
ToApolytoXaoshave you tried blender?21:59
@scrottieI've even downloaded isos ove LiveCDs of editing software, and the video editing software *still* didn't work21:59
ToApolytoXaosblender would do22:00
@scrottiehaven't tried to use it to edit video... I know it as an animation program22:00
@scrottieI bought software for my Mac, but it turns out the Mac is too old22:00
ToApolytoXaosyou could try this tutorial http://www.blendernation.com/2013/11/08/introduction-of-video-editing-in-blender/22:01
ToApolytoXaosthe only apple i would buy is a real one...fresh!22:01
@scrottieI was using something called videoeditmaster on Windows that worked *fine*, but then after something like 12 years of service, Microsoft Windows Server 2000 decided it was an unlicensed copy and commit suicide22:02
@scrottiewtf, Microsoft?22:02
@scrottieI'm 99.9% sure I *paid* for that thing, and then one day, it just jumps off a cliff.22:03
ToApolytoXaosno more window user here..only at work as troubleshooter22:03
@scrottiewell, here either now =|22:04
ToApolytoXaoseven my computer has GNU / Debian testing at work22:04
@scrottieI actually kind of liked 200022:04
ToApolytoXaosyeah, 2000 pro were the best.22:04
ToApolytoXaosit could run just fine with 64MB ram22:04
@scrottiedidn't constantly nag me with stupid BS22:04
ToApolytoXaosi loved it, honestly.22:05
ToApolytoXaosbut issues were issues.22:05
ichesnokovscrottie, yeah, I'm ichesnokov at github as well. 22:05
@scrottiethings made sense rather than having vague descriptions with cutsey icons that make you search all over everywhere because you don't know what anything is22:05
ToApolytoXaosi liked the NT idea22:05
ToApolytoXaosit felt too safe and was so at the same time while using it22:06
@scrottieI had Windows NT 4.0 at work for a while and developed on it.  it needed a lot of reboots and a lot of re-installs.22:06
@scrottiebut 2000 got things working very very well.22:06
ToApolytoXaosi remember testing the early NT versions...i don't remember how i found it, but i surely remember destroying hardware with wrong commands22:06
ToApolytoXaosi don't recall what i did...but server room smell burned plastic22:07
@scrottiehrm.  odd.22:07
@scrottieNT 3.51 would be a fun dinosaur to resurrect.  NT kernel, 3.11 desktop22:07
ToApolytoXaosthat's what i thought, but my face look like this O_O22:07
ToApolytoXaosthey should have released windows source code in the first place. nothing of this today would existed22:09
ToApolytoXaosbtw scrottie, do you know of any website that uses both Perl as front-end and back-end exclusively, without the help of other back-ends, like made with Go, D, C#, Java, and so forth to name a few?22:15
@scrottieplenty.  do you want something popular or that looks good or...?22:16
ichesnokovPerl for the frontend? Hmm, instead of HTML/CSS/JS?22:16
ichesnokovbtw, there are some Perl sites listed at http://www.builtinperl.com22:17
ckotilthink cgi. it's still html/css/js to the client browser22:17
ckotilpretty slick site22:17
@scrottiehttps://github.com/scrottie/webgui ... updated22:21
@scrottieapparently master there was behind.  whoops.  caught it up.22:21
-!- ichesnokov is now known as ichesnokov_22:23
-!- ichesnokov__ [~Ilya@] has joined #webgui22:24
-!- ichesnokov__ is now known as ichesnokov22:24
-!- ichesnokov_ [~Ilya@gateway.uk2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]22:28
ToApolytoXaosichesnokov, yeah i know about buildinperl.com; i have it bookmarked already ;)22:30
ToApolytoXaoswhat i forgot to mention is an important word: *large* websites22:31
ToApolytoXaoslike booking.com, but i'm sure they use multiple technologies as their back-end22:31
@scrottiebooking is well known for using Lisp in their AI backend22:34
ToApolytoXaosno shit! O_o22:35
ToApolytoXaosthat's wicked!22:35
ToApolytoXaosthe parenthesis chaos :D22:35
ToApolytoXaosstill, a powerful language22:35
@scrottiehttps://github.com/scrottie/webgui ... README.md updated.  patches welcome ;)23:40
jabberwoki am _so_ ready to trash my virtualmin+apache+wordpress stack.  just got thru eradicating some rogue php implanted script.23:45
jabberwokhas anyone tried a fresh install on centos 7 ?   23:46
* ToApolytoXaos is a GNU / Debian user; sorry jabberwok :(23:51
jabberwokreading a day's scroll in reverse order, it's like listening to a tape reel in reverse, quite fun once you get the hang of it... i wonder, has anyone ever released a movie shot entirely in reverse action?23:55
ToApolytoXaosthere are a few directors that did so in Europe if I remember correctly23:57
ToApolytoXaosbut it has a name this concept which i cannot remember right now23:57
ToApolytoXaosthat is, to start from back to forth23:57
jabberwokhmm... ?? ??????? ????  ... i got most of that without even google translate.23:59
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jabberwokit almost sounds like, in spanish, « á pollito caucho » - a rubber chicken00:04
ToApolytoXaosit's an obvious nickname jabberwok 00:04
ToApolytoXaosi got it one day i was dealing with a PHP bug, a C++ template crashing report, and attempting to read Ruby.00:05
ToApolytoXaosany questions thus far? :D00:05
jabberwok?mysql_real_escape_string! ( struct bork <0> { static const noise = !signal; } )00:07
jabberwoki only write Python scripts in Acme::Bleach00:10
ToApolytoXaosthe only negative thing with Python is its indentations. i truly like them, but piss me off when have to deal with copy / paste00:22
ToApolytoXaosthat's a pop corn moment for some people to see someone go crazy!00:22
@scrottiejabberwok, that WordPress->wG import script would be really really good.  I can answer questions about wG's database schema.  2 cent version is everything gets an entry in asset.  assetData gets an entry for each version of the asset (so at least one entry), then Wobject usually gets an entry (because most assets inherit WebGUI::Asset::Wobject, and the table inheritance matches the code inheritance), and then whatever other table the asset uses.00:43
@scrottieif you look at the code for the asset, it defines the fields and specifies the table that things restore/save to.00:43
@scrottieeven just getting some of the major settings and the articles with tags would be really really nice.00:46
@scrottiejabberwok, are you on github?00:46
jabberwoki am... lemme see here00:46
jabberwokhttps://github.com/lindleyw  -and-  https://bitbucket.org/wlindley/00:47
@scrottiehave a commit bit =)00:48
@scrottieif you wanted to just do the skeleton and read the WP data, I could do the other half and stuff it into wG.  that is, if you can hand it to me in a way that I can understand.00:49
@scrottieI'm all about the 2 cent solution to start with.00:50
jabberwokabsolutely.  first lemme get this all installed so i can poke sharp sticks at it00:51
@scrottieI tried to track down the rumored start of this but couldn't find it01:03
@scrottiemight send an email01:03
jabberwoki saw a few msgs and a mention or two on the irc-log about wordpress from 2010-ish but nothing concrete01:04
@scrottiedid you notice who was talking about doing the work?01:05
jabberwokfinal: brazil 1, germany 7 (!)01:05
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jabberwok"elnino" asked «if someone has a wordpress site, is there a importer that we can use to transfer it into webgui?» http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/2010-08.log.html ... +perlDreamerelnino: « I don't know of such a beast...but, I'd help you write it »01:10
jabberwok- Q: one wG install, can serve multiple virtual hosts?  versus wp where you really need a whole nother copy for each site/blog?01:13
@scrottiemmm... if you set up a wG to serve multiple domains, a lot of stuff is shared.01:13
@scrottiethe theme can be made domain specific.  I did that on one site I worked on.  that's not too bad.01:14
@scrottieusers/groups are global across sites.01:14
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@scrottieat the apache proxy or nginx level, you can send people to different start pages, or redirect them in wG, but there isn't a built-in concept of home page per domain name.  that could be added pretty easily though.01:15
jabberwokah. - i have about 20 (used to be 50) *.com/*.org with wp, on a single linode vps; eventually i'd like to administer a single software install, albeit with varying db connections and themes for each domain. and then have a super-admin ncurses interface, no more web admin holes even. - but that's Later.01:21
@scrottiewebgui has 'wgd', a command line tool that lets you do just about anything =)01:22
@scrottieif the only change is different themes and the page people get redirected to, that's easily done.01:23
jabberwokexcellent. it's absurd to devote a 4core xeon with 4GB ram to run a measly few dozen sleepy websites.01:24
ToApolytoXaoshow about WP plugins? will those data going to be exported / migrated as well?01:44
ToApolytoXaoshow about WP sites that have multisite enabled?01:44
ToApolytoXaoswill wG be able to handle such thing? that's the challenging part.01:45
@scrottieonly talking about the absolutely most basic case right now, but feel free to submit patches!01:45
jabberwokthat's the $7 version not the 2¢01:45
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, i saw a few Perl files that use 5.008 as the default Perl version. is there a reason? should not we move such code to 5.012 the minimum?01:47
@scrottiesaying use 5.008 doesn't mean that exactly 5.008 is used but rather at least 5.008 is used01:48
@scrottiethere are places that require 5.010 and 5.01201:48
jabberwokperlbrew to the rescue01:48
@scrottieactually, I think nothing requires anything later than 5.010 because CentOS was stuck on that for a long time01:49
ToApolytoXaosif I remember correctly, companies that use cPanel got stuck with 5.00801:50
ToApolytoXaosi know because of a friend that use BlueHost01:50
jabberwokmy condolences01:51
jabberwokat least they're better than godaddy01:51
ToApolytoXaoshahaha :D01:52
jabberwokscrottie: remember that one host that was still running Perl4 on Solaris?01:52
ToApolytoXaosthe funny thing with shared hosting is that they charge too much for too little01:52
ToApolytoXaos180 USD for 12 months with 128MB ram01:52
ToApolytoXaoswhat's the point?!01:52
ToApolytoXaoswith 60 dollars i get 512MB DigitalOcean01:53
jabberwokfor $120, 1GB ram, 24GB ssd linode.02:06
ToApolytoXaoslol...this website looks so much like '90s02:40
@scrottieisn't it awesome?  check out what s/he wrote here:  http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/project-to-finish-wg8#idO2EYOHAiCiyX2zklp9pkdg02:50
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sany_okCan somebody please suggest me a how to modify links on each page automatically at runtime?05:14
sany_okWhich pl file shall be modified?05:14
sany_okI would like to have a signle out page to improve my PR05:15
sany_okI will do the mod public05:15
sany_okalready done a simple one:05:16
sany_okneed your help guys05:16
sany_okif you read this later and would like to help, please write to webgui [at] aulix.com05:17
@scrottiehi sany_ok06:17
@scrottieno simple, direct way to do that.06:18
@scrottieyou could write a new template parser plugin based on the existing one and add that feature there.  that would get most of the links.06:18
ckotilmod rewrite?06:39
ckotili do somuch rewrite it make my head spin06:40
sany_okI tried mod_rewrite and it did not work for me06:41
sany_okfor other purpose, looks like WG request go besides mod_rewrite06:41
ckotilthey allhu06:42
sany_okWas anybody able to use mod_rewrite with WG successfully?06:42
ckotilthey all hit mod proxy first06:42
ckotili use it extensivly. ican share examples tomorrow06:42
sany_oksomeone suggested to use the same method like it is used for noCache, is it a good idea?06:43
sany_okI have made many searched through the source perl files with a help of PADRE IDE06:43
sany_okseen functions like gateway06:43
ckotildunno aboutno cache.tell us what u want to do06:43
ckotilim dropping offline. ill be back tomorrow06:44
sany_okjust a moment06:45
sany_oklooking for threads in community06:45
sany_okanother about almost the same06:46
sany_okCreate a special page with a macro which redirects other links to external sites. This page will receive a lot of weight due to internal linkage after rewriting external links and we can place a lot of advertisment on this link and the link will not pass any weight outside because all urls will be passed dynamically06:46
sany_okIs it a good idea?06:46
sany_okCan <a >'s on page be rewritten through some apache mods to avoid deeping into WebGUI source?06:46
sany_okckotil, please e-mail me example of mod_rewrite to webgui at aulix.com06:51
sany_okor a link where you share them06:51
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sany_okChad, I have sent a e-mail to your iu.edu address, please read when you have a minute06:38
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ckotilive been trying to build a new wre from source for 64bit centos 6 host. but im unable to get perl to build with threaded support. anyone run into this before? 19:44
ckotil'-Dusethreads -Duseithreads' should do it, but no matter what I do , my build is left with this: useithreads=undef19:44
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@scrottiedon't use threads20:43
@scrottienone of the code needs them and they only cause pain and suffering20:44
@scrottieDebian and CentOS build with them by default even though the install docs say not to use them20:44
@scrottiethat makes people think that they're supposed to be built in but they really, really aren't20:44
@scrottiejust got off of a long phone call with the owner of Donor.com.  donor.com is built on wG, and offerse a customized wG for clients to build their platforms on as well that servers as an interface to their backend API20:47
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kaare_scrottie: So they'll support you? ;-)20:50
@scrottiehe's thinking about it but like a lot of people who use wG, it would be difficult for them to upgrade20:51
@scrottielots of custom code20:51
@scrottieI need more stuff to show people.  in this case, a community development portal with spaces for banners.20:52
@scrottieI've taken the leak of promising banners in exchange for large donations20:53
@scrottieI mean20:53
@scrottiehey, jabberwok, can you get me the WP half of the WP->wG script today?20:53
jabberwokwell i can create a 'standard' export file from wordpress, for starters.  i've decided that's the easiest place to drive the first arrow into the beast.20:55
@scrottieis it a file format you can parse?20:55
jabberwokan xml variant, so... "yes" with moderate values of "ugh"20:56
@scrottieI think if I can tell the Perl community about a skeletal WP->wG converter before the Kickstarter ends, that will impress them a lot and convince them that this is for real20:57
@scrottiesince attacking the WP market is one of the basic premises20:57
jabberwokhttp://wlindley.com/img/blog.wlindley.com.wordpress.2014-07-10.xml   is an example,   a full backup from http://blog.wlindley.com ... it's marked as rss-2.0 but with lots of custom extensions.  everything _is_ in there, somewhere21:00
jabberwok./title EPROM Programmer Arrested for Flashing Firm-Ware in Public21:01
jabberwokwhere "everything" does not include any images or "attached" files, just what is in the wp database.21:03
* scrottie groans21:05
@scrottiehrm, that might be all I need21:05
jabberwokwp has this annoying habit of storing «<p> ...stuff... </p>» as «stuff» surrounded by newlines, and embedding «[shortcodes]» in the text21:06
@scrottiethought it might be helpful if I ask questions about what some of the stuff is and you're able to tell me21:06
@scrottiethat's gibberish on my irc-II client21:06
@scrottienopaste that?21:06
jabberwokhttp://nopaste.info/0211a6bebb.html    21:10
jabberwoki double checked to verify there weren't any passwords or such silliness in it.21:11
@scrottieoh, I meant the "habit of storing" bit21:11
@scrottienot the XML21:11
jabberwoki could send a smaller file but this one has lots of warts and leftover bits as an inherited from constant upgrades from circa-2006 wp versions21:11
@scrottiewhatever you typed didn't come across on irc-II21:11
jabberwokAh, --- i used unicode quotes21:12
jabberwoki had a writeup of the Post/page format here somewhere, lemme  find it21:12
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@scrottiehey pvanthony21:16
jabberwokat minimum, in the <content:encoded> data you will want to convert "\n\n" to "<p>", although that isn't proper valid html.  the actual php handler is in function wpautop() //// line 245 in https://core.trac.wordpress.org/browser/tags/3.9.1/src/wp-includes/formatting.php#L021:23
jabberwokwhich does a perl regex replacement, as:     preg_replace('|<br />\s*<br />|', "\n\n"   ......    (line 278)21:24
@scrottieeasily fixed21:24
jabberwok*nod*  there's a couple dozen "special case exceptions" in that mess of code.   21:25
@scrottieof course.21:25
@scrottieI want to use mst's remote deployment code to vomit out wG installs onto remote hosts.  i want to create a site where you type your login info and hostname, and it ssh's in and deploys everything for you.21:26
@scrottiethe TX DOT website is the prettiest and easist to use of any I've seen.  https://txpros.txdot.gov/21:28
@scrottieI also have a TPF grant proposal.  someone care to proof read this and give me feedback?21:31
@scrottieshould be able to fork that if you like21:37
jabberwokaside:  i always wanted to write a module, Curses::FoiledAgain21:44
ckotilscrottie: ok, i wont. it's just the build.sh script was building modperl that wanted threading. i can pry disable it in modperl21:45
@scrottieoh.  don't know about mod_perl and what it needs.21:46
jabberwokre: Bootstrap, i looked at that but wound up preferring Foundation. either/both are good to steal^H^H^H^H import other peoples themes21:46
@scrottiejabberwok, I don't know that space well enough to have an opinion.21:46
jabberwokok, i'll dredge up my bootstrap-vs-foundation notes and send you a link to them later.21:47
@scrottieuh, ... not sure when I'd get to processing that either21:47
@scrottiebut you're welcome tos end it21:48
jabberwokminor: under "Benefits to the Perl Community" in the next line change "affects" -> "effects"21:48
jabberwoki like the concept of being able to write "meta-admin" capabilites with a curses interface so the Really Powerful Stuff isn't even web-accessible21:51
@scrottiewell, the wgd command line utility does that right now21:51
@scrottiethe curses thing is just the installer21:51
@scrottieI probably wouldn't have made it curses except I felt it very important that it have a progress bar21:51
@scrottiewgd uses $EDITOR to edit YAML versions of assets, and it has commands to edit groups, users, settings, etc21:52
@scrottieimport/export assets21:52
@scrottieand asset trees21:52
@scrottieHUGELY helpful when working on a site21:52
@scrottieI forget where things ever are in the web based admin21:53
jabberwok(( trying not to get sidetracked by Battleship.pm ))21:56
@scrottieit's short at least21:56
jabberwokunder Completeness, first bullet has "featues" --> features21:58
jabberwokgood stuff. -- btw the Jax. pub_library has a copy of Perl6 Now.21:59
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@scrottieoh man.22:00
@scrottieno major changes then?22:00
@scrottiethanks for reading through that22:00
jabberwokas far as easy deployment ... i saw some talk of a Docker container; now that CentOS 7 includes Docker, that might be a good way to distribute the whole enchilada relatively painlessly22:00
ckotilyeah that should pry happen22:01
@scrottieproblem with package systems is there are so many of them22:01
@scrottieI'd love to support that, but linode instances are probably the largest target22:01
ckotilim going to try upgradgin my centos65 box to 7 at home. suppposedly you can do a straight upgrade22:01
@scrottiecan you run a docker app inside of a linode instance?22:01
@scrottieguess I should ask GOOG22:02
ckotilhttps://blog.linode.com/2014/01/03/docker-on-linode/ yes22:02
@scrottiewrong paste =P22:02
jabberwokif the linode runs centos 7, yes.  theoretically one docker container should work equally under centos, ubuntu, debian, arch.22:02
ckotilare you aware of cloudatcost.com ?22:02
ckotilive had 2 for about 9 months now. 22:02
ckotilthere has been some downtime. but for a dev host. it's been great!22:03
ckotilive got a $35 one, and a $70 one22:03
ckotilerr no. ive got 2x $35 22:03
@scrottiewelp, there has to be at least two installers anyway because lots and lots of people want to do local dev/testing on OSX22:04
@scrottieand wG makes developing on dev and moving to production easy with wgpkgs22:04
@scrottieso naturally people want to use their laptop as the dev machine22:04
jabberwokegads, that's cheap.  way cheaper than fixing up the pile of xeon servers (non-VT, u320 scsi drives) that i halfway inherited22:04
@scrottieI've got a $20 lindoe.22:04
@scrottiethough I like "lindoe".  a deer and a penguin?22:05
jabberwokYES where's a graphic artist for that, when you need one22:05
@scrottiethey doubled the RAM included and quadrupled the disc included but I didn't take advantage of it for over a year until a migration forced me to reboot22:08
@scrottiebut then three days before the migration, the instance locked up22:08
* scrottie scratches his head22:08
@scrottiecoincidence?  I DOUBT IT22:08
@scrottie$10 plan22:09
jabberwokat these prices, it's not worth bothering with physical hardware, despite loving to kick boxes round22:11
@scrottielinode has been good, but I detest AWS.  during busy parts of the day, it's like being teleported back in time (shut up, I'll mix metaphores if I want to) and telneting into a shared Sun 3 box where everyone is trying to compile their homework at the same time22:12
ckotili cant find doc's for in place upgrade from centos6.5 to 722:12
@scrottiepeople saying "cloud" still makes me want to punch them in the face22:13
@scrottiehrm.  if I didn't extend the disk, I could have downgraded to that plan =P22:14
jabberwokckotil: the 6.5 -> 7 upgrade script is listed was "to appear later" in the release notes somewhere22:14
ckotilah ok22:15
jabberwokscrottie:  on linode, resize the disk down, create a new node at the $10 rate, and use the Clone feature to copy your old disks to the new node.  change dns records,, shutdown old node, done.22:15
@scrottiechanging DNS records would be a big project.  it's a registered host.  it serves DNS.22:16
@scrottiesame old story.22:16
ckotiljabberwok: found it. thanks22:16
jabberwokcheers, ckotil22:16
jabberwoki'm translating that wpautop function into Perl. Gah, the fact that all this runs with _every render_ of _each post/page_ all the time, no wonder wp is such a pig23:09
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ToApolytoXaosscrottie, from your gist file you meant "cmsmatrix.org" instead of "cmsmatrix.com" about wG's high ranking?01:03
ToApolytoXaosif yes, then this sentence becomes too biased, because cmsmatrix.org belongs to Plain Black Corp.01:05
@scrottieI know, totally biased, but such a wonderful little lie01:13
@scrottiebut okay, maybe deceit isn't appropriate in this case01:14
ToApolytoXaosnot for those who know a bit of SEO and use a few tools within a browser01:14
ToApolytoXaospeople want honesty and those who *do* see such things whether they truly want to help / promote this project or not, they will think twice to do so01:15
ToApolytoXaosi'm sure because i have been there with deception as a SEO-wannabe in the past.01:15
ToApolytoXaosas soon as i started playing the game by the rules, i would bring in my company 3500 euros per customer and i had 150 customers in 1 year..that's a lot of money, isn't it?01:16
ToApolytoXaosi think i did my job as an employee pretty decently.01:17
ToApolytoXaoswhat i'm trying to say is don't promote plain black corp unless you are a benefit out of it01:17
ToApolytoXaosmy suggestion would be, try to take its ownership and pass it to a non-profit organization that would project it01:18
@scrottieit would be impossible for them not to benefit from me promoting WebGUI since they paid for almost all of the work in it.01:18
@scrottiewG8 cost about $300,000.01:18
ToApolytoXaosthere's only one thing missing01:18
@scrottiewhy should I care if they benefit anyway?01:18
@scrottiewe benefit from the code they wrote being GPL.01:19
@scrottiewe benefit from being able to use the name, to the degree that they permit it.01:19
ToApolytoXaosyeah, i forgot it's GPL and not BSD...01:19
ToApolytoXaoswell, all that is left is to form a non-profit organization that controls it, like what Python is doing as also Django01:20
@scrottiecreating a non-profit is a long ways off.  we don't have regular contributors at this point.01:20
@scrottiebut given an active project, a non-profit makes sense.01:20
ToApolytoXaosit will attract people01:21
ToApolytoXaoswe tend to get scared of the word "Corporation"01:21
ToApolytoXaoswe think big names like, Oracle, Microsoft, and such01:21
@scrottieno, I know what's involved in a non-profit.  that's not a good use of my time righ tnow.01:21
ToApolytoXaosyou know what's best then.01:22
ToApolytoXaoswhatever that is, i will support it01:22
@scrottieI don't have six months to spare right now, and if I did, I'd use it writing code.01:23
@scrottiecould really use a good looking site ;)01:23
@scrottiebtw:  http://www.biketempe.org/about/01:23
ToApolytoXaosby the way, let me find that link about WordPress that shares some good points that we *should* take an advantage of it01:23
ToApolytoXaoswhat about it scrottie?01:24
@scrottieI'm on the board of directors of a non-profit.  that's all.01:24
@scrottiethey use WordPress =P01:25
@scrottieI've been spending my time recently contacting companies that use and host wG and talking to them about sponsorship01:25
@scrottieand but a good looking community project site would let them imagine sponsorship a lot more easily01:26
@scrottieand a WP->wG import tool would let the Perl community imagine taking on WP a lot more easily ;)01:26
@scrottieso those are my priorities right now01:26
@scrottieI also have some homework to do01:26
@scrottieand I need to register for classes and I'm hoping to start doing some consulting work so I need to come up to speed on that.  whee!01:27
ToApolytoXaosone thing though you should read if you haven't done already is this http://mor10.com/wordpress-at-10-time-for-a-fork/01:27
@scrottieand I wrote a grant proposal for TPF founding the other day01:27
ToApolytoXaoswhen you say classes...for a PhD?01:28
@scrottie"As much as I hate to say it, WordPress is not really a CMS but rather an extremely built-out blogging platform." ... no kidding01:29
@scrottieno, I never finished my undergrad, and since I made jack last year doing TBAG (tempe bicycle action group) stuff full time, I'm eligable for student aid, so I thought I'd take advantage of it, but I'm also doing an online certificate track.01:29
@scrottieI have no judgment whatsoever and no one should ever listen to me.01:29
ToApolytoXaosif you say so...that would be what we call oxymoron01:30
ToApolytoXaosa person that has no judgment tries to persuade people to use wG8 :D hahahaha01:31
@scrottie"Sit down with a novice WordPress user and you'll see what I mean: What was once considered a simple and straight forward blogging tool has become a stunningly complex application with some blogging features." it's nice how assets in wG encapsulate a lot of this.  the base install is too complicated still, but if you want to use it as an app layer, you can ignore all of the blogging stuff.  01:31
@scrottieyou don't even see it unless you start adding related assets01:31
ToApolytoXaosif wG8 is a pure CMS it should remain like this01:32
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@scrottieit's a CMS that people tend to use to build big applications on top of.  so it's part CMS, part app framework.01:33
@scrottiebut I don't think that's too much at this point.  especially given the modularity.01:33
ToApolytoXaosif however, there are plans to let the user choose how he or she wants to set up it, then we definitely need an installing wizard to generate the appropriate project01:33
@scrottiethere's already a new site wizard.  more could be done with that.  assets need to be taken out of core and just live on CPAN.  I talked about some of that already.01:33
ToApolytoXaosi have so many ideas in my Pandora Box (my chaotic mind, that is)01:34
@scrottiegood article.  thank you for that!01:34
ToApolytoXaosno worries scrottie :) i knew you would need it, that's why i shared it01:34
@scrottieI had a long converastion with the CEO of donor.com today.01:35
@scrottiehe was thrilled at the chance to talk about wG with someone close to it01:35
ToApolytoXaosmy original concept before turned to Perl-hacker-wanna-be, i was using PHP and I hated it so bad01:35
ToApolytoXaosno kidding01:35
ToApolytoXaosthat's so awesome01:35
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@scrottiehe went on a big bender about how fantastic a lot of things are and how what they've been able to do for their major hosted clients with it01:35
@scrottie... but then he used that as a launch point to talk about the *pain* he had using it01:36
@scrottieupgrades often don't work01:36
@scrottiehe has major hosted sites still on 6 and early versions of 701:36
@scrottiethey modified core and it would be hard for them to adapt that to 801:36
@scrottieit's too complicated for their users01:36
@scrottieif you're a major non-profit like the Red Cross, you can use their platform which runs wG but gives you a backend API to all of their services for handling donations and managing donors and campaigns01:37
ToApolytoXaosi see01:38
@scrottieI know a lot of other people had upgrade problems with 7.  PB officially supported upgrades but changes made were just too ambitious and we made it too hard for people that weren't huge outfits with lots of programmers on staff.01:38
@scrottieso it seems clear to me right now that an easy install is just the first step.  an important first step...01:38
ToApolytoXaosit would be brilliantly clever and attractive to let the user "design" his site with the help of your installer01:39
ToApolytoXaosfor instance01:39
@scrottieanyway.  buying myself some time to get this to a very basic level of usability is my top goal right now.01:39
@scrottiethe new site wizard lets you pick a theme =)01:39
ToApolytoXaosi will be referring to the general user as "he"01:39
@scrottieand it asks which of a few popular assets you want on the front page to get started =)01:40
ToApolytoXaoshe *should* be able to create a site based on his needs. for example, the user might be only interested in blogging01:40
ToApolytoXaosor an ecommerce01:40
ToApolytoXaosi'm sure you already know that the majority of WP websites you see around are woocommerce01:40
@scrottienope, didn't know that01:42
ToApolytoXaoswell, now you do lol01:42
ToApolytoXaoswoocommerce is by far the easiest setup ever and the shittiest thing to organize lol01:42
ToApolytoXaoswhat a logical web developer would create all these widgets that you have to drag aaaaaall the way up and if for some reason your hand went numb and unclicked the button, you have to repeat it again?!01:43
ToApolytoXaosi mean...seriously01:43
@scrottiewill you please make me a GitHub Pages page?  >=)01:44
ToApolytoXaosthe monitor on a laptop has a certain resolution and you expect me to scroll all time to page to find a hidden widget?01:44
@scrottieI dunno!  The design I design looks like garbage.01:44
@scrottieer, when I design things it looks like garbage01:44
ToApolytoXaosi'm not a designer, but we could use something ready01:45
ToApolytoXaosunless you announce this in Perl mailing list and kindly ask for a quick support01:45
ToApolytoXaosand treat then a candy01:45
ToApolytoXaosa promotional design, a flat design, a corporation design?01:46
@scrottiesome ready sounds good01:49
@scrottiemmm.  not too corporate.  fun, very simple.  moble-ish maybe just to be cool.  two goals:  distribute (soon forthcoming) community beta, get new developers started, and thank commercial sponsors.  three sir!01:50
ToApolytoXaoswould you like that with fries and coke?01:50
* ToApolytoXaos laughs my ass off01:51
@scrottieugh, McDonalds.  no, I require expensive Italian food.01:51
ToApolytoXaosi prefer my own cuisine; Greek.01:52
@scrottieEthiopian, Indian... lots of good stuff =)01:53
ToApolytoXaosi think my country's cuisine covers almost everything :D01:54
ToApolytoXaosby the way, just to let you know about github pages01:54
ToApolytoXaoseverything is automated for you, so...01:55
ToApolytoXaosheytitle suggested this http://jekyllthemes.org/01:55
@scrottie I need to create an account other than scrottie01:55
ToApolytoXaoswhy's that?01:56
@scrottieneed a different fork/page/account01:56
ToApolytoXaosi said "why" not "who"01:56
@scrottieI didn't read about Jeckyll at all.  figured I (or whoever) would use HTML but whatever works01:56
@scrottienot sure01:56
ToApolytoXaosyou can use markdown + HTML and will work just fine01:56
@scrottieshouldn't be scrottie.github.io/webgui01:57
@scrottiethat's not ideal01:57
ToApolytoXaosbut you have to place it to github.io01:57
ToApolytoXaosyou need to create a PROJECT not another user01:57
ToApolytoXaosthat would be, anniumcepa.github.io01:57
@scrottieokay, I need to figure out how to create a project then01:58
ToApolytoXaosit's at your right as soon as you login01:58
@scrottieI think I have to create an Organization in order for it to not say "scrottie"02:02
ToApolytoXaosyou see the problem now?02:03
ToApolytoXaoswith Plain Black Corp in the middle? :/02:03
* scrottie sighs02:03
ToApolytoXaosyou have to give it a code name02:03
@scrottieI need more time to talk to people about how they feel about stuff than I have.02:04
@scrottieright.  I did ask the same person who suggested a name.02:04
@scrottiewhat did I expect.02:04
ToApolytoXaoshow about wgng?02:05
@scrottieand then wgvoyager after that?02:06
ToApolytoXaoswell, you have to find a name that *should* stick with the entire project for many years to come, no matter how things will end up02:06
@scrottieyeah.  and "ng" quickly gets dated.02:07
ToApolytoXaosnext generation?02:07
ToApolytoXaoshow come?02:07
@scrottieif New Coke hadn't been killed and we were still calling it New Coke 20 years later, that would be awkward02:08
@scrottieyou almost have to kill something with "new" or "next gen" in its name02:08
@scrottiejust so you don't have to suffer that name for the rest of forever02:08
ToApolytoXaosok, call it wgunofficialtrunk02:09
ToApolytoXaossounds better?02:09
@scrottieI'm leaning towards a codename but not sure how this will shake out02:09
ToApolytoXaosremember how Centos shook waters when it first came out as an alternative to RHLE?02:10
@scrottiepeople cared about RedHat.  they don't care about wG.02:11
ToApolytoXaosthen, follow the Apache concept02:12
@scrottiescott@Microknoppix:/data/WebGUI8$ git push allium master02:13
ToApolytoXaosi thought you said the ticket reply -_-02:13
ToApolytoXaosallium is garlic...allium CEPA is the common onion02:14
ToApolytoXaosallium actually unoffocially means the onion genus02:14
ToApolytoXaosi thought you *READ*02:15
* ToApolytoXaos upgrades his fingers' AI autonomous typing software...02:15
@scrottiehrm.  maybe transferring ownership is what I wanted to do instead.  oh well.  have to recreate open tickets, worst case.02:15
@scrottieI just named it allium in my .git/config.  you can call it whatever you want.02:16
ToApolytoXaosvery nice02:16
ToApolytoXaosi have so many things to learn02:17
ToApolytoXaosi'm a total newbie to such things02:17
ToApolytoXaosi haven't studies wG yet in depth; only saw it thoroughly...is it going to be bumpy ride for me?02:18
@scrottieyou should be able to do this to push content:  https://gist.github.com/scrottie/d7bc303d518b038841a602:18
@scrottiethere's some learning curve, but narrowing the focus will help a *lot*02:19
ToApolytoXaosi think my PHP experience, plus Python, C, C++ will help a bit02:20
@scrottieso, still down for hobbling together a site? =)02:20
ToApolytoXaoshere it's 02:22 and as you can see, i type nonsense :D02:20
@scrottiesimple and pretty.  I posted tickets for the community process.02:20
ToApolytoXaoswhat time is it over there02:20
ToApolytoXaosokay, i will experiment with jekyll a bit tomorrow and i will provide you my feedback02:21
ToApolytoXaosfair enough?02:21
@scrottiesounds lovely.02:21
@scrottiesleep well.  if you decide to sleep.02:21
ToApolytoXaosany favorite coloring with wG?02:21
@scrottiewell, the octopus mascot is purple.  see http://twitter.com/scrottie if you need any fodder.  I've been flooding it.02:22
ToApolytoXaosit has to match current logo i would say02:22
@scrottienot having wG in the name makes it harder sell to sponsors.02:22
ToApolytoXaosyeah, i understand02:23
ToApolytoXaosoh well...tomorrow is going to be a big day then :)02:23
ToApolytoXaosalso there's weekend02:23
ToApolytoXaos"the natives"?02:25
@scrottieeg "the natives are restless"02:25
@scrottierandom people concerned02:25
ToApolytoXaosah i see02:25
ToApolytoXaosif they don't like it, call it "Stew"02:26
@scrottienice.  issues transferred over.  https://github.com/AlliumCepa/webgui02:27
@scrottieNOT "scrottie".  HUGE IMPROVEMENT.02:27
ToApolytoXaosawesome :D02:27
ToApolytoXaosI'm sure they will like it as soon as they search for the name those who don't know it02:28
ToApolytoXaosalso, the codename for recipes could be called "stew recipes" :D02:29
ToApolytoXaoshahahaha :D that's so awesome02:29
ToApolytoXaosanyway scrottie, have a lovely evening by me, and goodnight. rest well yourself and hopefully tomorrow we continue our adventure02:32
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jabberwokhttp://blog.wlindley.com/2014/07/interpreting-a-wordpress-export-xml-file/  for scrottie15:47
jabberwok^^ brain-dump from 7 years of WP fun15:48
jabberwokincluding my insightful and sarcastic comments as to the WP merry mischmasch of malprogramming.16:00
ckotilvery nice. i bet it will be useful to someone 16:00
ckotilre: unable to build perl in the wre from source w/ threads. i tried a newer version of perl src than what's in the build scripts, and that worked for me.16:17
ckotili notice in getsources.sh that openssl is not patched for heartbleed16:17
* scrottie sighs16:48
@scrottieckotil, can you open a ticket with PB for that?  or else I can.16:49
@scrottiethanks, jabberwok16:49
ckotilyeah i will16:49
ckotilive got a few other notes from this build process too16:50
ckotilvarious new packages16:50
ckotilill include them as well16:50
ckotiland apache 2.4 doenst work with mod_perl2 ;)16:50
@scrottiejabberwok, btw, I'm going to try to implement that the first half of next week16:51
jabberwokas for mysql-as-used-by-php, i can't count the times i've seen people store the strings "true" and "false" in a db instead of using a boolean or numeric field. i am expecting to one day have to debug "oh, here's your problem, you have 'true' in Chinese Simplified instead of Chinese Traditional."18:16
jabberwok11 upvotes18:34
jabberwokand let's hope a couple contributors.18:34
* jabberwok hands ckotil a t-shirt: "I work at Google. I get to have a '-1' button."18:36
ckotilg+ lets you downvote?18:36
jabberwokno.  unless you're a google dba?18:36
ckotilthey need one. or a dislike button18:39
jabberwokYah, when someone posts "My dog was hit by a car last night, my wife left me this morning, I was fired, and I came home to a mailbox full of summons" -- am I supposed to "Like" that?18:41
ckotilexactly. and just the other night. a good friends crazy ex wife went all suicidal cry for help on fb... you can't like that! tho i wanted to say 'do it' :/18:42
jabberwok=sigh=  "I hate to encourage suicide, but... could you write me into your will?"18:43
jabberwokthe telescripts i write, they wouldn't show on PBS.18:44
ckotilhaha. nice one18:44
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ToApolytoXaosgreetings scrottie. just found time to sit in front of PC; sorry :/ i had things to arrange for home.19:23
ToApolytoXaosi haven't done anything with the website.19:24
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@scrottieToAp, s'ok.  if you manage to find time, that would be awesome.  I'm pretty snowed in myself.21:10
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ToApolytoXaoscan i just do it manually then instead of using jekyll?22:38
ToApolytoXaosthat would be preferable i would say22:38
ToApolytoXaosare you there scrottie?22:47
ToApolytoXaosyesterday you sent me this https://gist.github.com/scrottie/d7bc303d518b038841a622:47
ToApolytoXaosis this the process to pull / push content to alliumcepa?22:48
ToApolytoXaosi can't push to AlliumCepa scrottie; permission denied23:03
@scrottieokay, let me see23:15
ToApolytoXaosjust give me a second, because the problem lies in the way i'm pushing things23:16
ToApolytoXaosi used https whereas it should be ssh for some reason23:16
ToApolytoXaosyour git example is to create a directory of my choice and initialize a project in there, and not how to clone even an empty repository23:16
ToApolytoXaosOK, let me experiment a bit more...brb23:18
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@scrottiewith organiations, you do need to create a new repo, I think23:20
@scrottiedistinct from any other repo23:20
@scrottielagg lag lag23:20
@scrottieHouston traffic on GPRS23:20
@scrottieso I might have to create that new repo23:20
ToApolytoXaosdarn it...23:22
ToApolytoXaosthat's why i get permission denied (publickey)?23:22
ToApolytoXaoswhy people like complicating our lives..?23:23
ToApolytoXaosgood evening ichesnokov 23:23
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, i got "mad" now...i will got and eat a candy to calm down lol23:24
@scrottienope, already done23:25
@scrottiegit clone https://github.com/username/username.github.io23:25
@scrottiegot like a ten minute ping time23:25
@scrottiewhere username is alliumcepa23:26
@scrottiewell, make sure your current pub key is plugged into your account on github23:26
@scrottieits just going to get worse when I hit the airport23:29
ToApolytoXaosso, should I follow the gist procedure or the standard one?23:33
@scrottieI think23:34
ToApolytoXaosremote: Permission to alliumcepa/alliumcepa.github.io.git denied to ToApolytoXaos. fatal: unable to access 'https://github.com/alliumcepa/alliumcepa.github.io/': The requested URL returned error: 40323:35
@scrottieaccording to pages.github.com, the pages do live in the AlliumCepa.github.io repo23:36
@scrottieyeah, you need a git@ ssh style URL23:36
@scrottienot sure why pages.github.com gives that https:// one23:36
ToApolytoXaosso git clone is wrong23:36
@scrottieis what you want to git clone23:37
ToApolytoXaosshould i repeat that again?23:37
* scrottie tests that23:37
@scrottiewarning: You appear to have cloned an empty repository.23:38
@scrottieotherwise it works23:38
ToApolytoXaosthat was the message i got too23:38
@scrottieokay, well, add stuff to it and push... but make sure the url for the origin is set to git@github.com:/AlliumCepa/AlliumCepa.github.io23:38
@scrottienot the https non-sense23:38
@scrottieedit .git/config if you need to and replace it in there23:40
ToApolytoXaosit does not work; i have tried it23:40
ToApolytoXaosi will repeat the cloning procedure23:40
@scrottie<ToApolytoXaos> remote: Permission to alliumcepa/alliumcepa.github.io.git denied to ToApolytoXaos. fatal: unable to access23:40
@scrottie+'https://github.com/alliumcepa/alliumcepa.github.io/': The requested URL returned error: 40323:40
@scrottiethats the wrong url23:41
@scrottieyou need a git@ thing, not an https thing23:41
@scrottiedid you change that and try again to push?23:41
@scrottieyou can edit it in your .git/config23:41
ToApolytoXaosi did as you said23:41
ToApolytoXaosbefore i mean23:41
@scrottiesorry, I was wrokng23:41
ToApolytoXaosnow i will redo things from the start23:41
@scrottietrying to correct myself here23:41
ToApolytoXaosi get permission denied for my publickey for some reason23:43
@scrottiecan you do 'git pull' on other repos of yours on github?23:43
ToApolytoXaoslet me check23:43
@scrottieie, does the key work elsewhere on github...23:43
ToApolytoXaosi'm currently pulling neovim23:45
@scrottiehrm.  did I add the wrong ToApolytoXaos to the project?  let me see23:45
ToApolytoXaosno, the problem is with what options you have set for cloning23:47
@scrottieokay, try now.  I'm new to this part of git.  I thought I gave you access to everything but apparently there's another step23:47
ToApolytoXaoswith ssh or https?23:47
@scrottiehttps might work.  I always use ssh.23:47
ToApolytoXaosssh won't work23:48
ToApolytoXaoslet me check with https23:48
ToApolytoXaoshttps worked23:48
ToApolytoXaosit works!23:50
@scrottiewhy would ssh not work?23:55
@scrottieI use it all the time23:55
ToApolytoXaosi honestly don't know23:57
ToApolytoXaosit must be something with my public key for some reason23:58
@scrottieI created a "team" that has read/write access and added you to the team, but I didn't realize I had to add that team to that repo23:58
@scrottieguess "teams" were pointless extra complexity in this case.  should just add people directly to repos.23:58
ToApolytoXaosnow i'm thinking of a good design...23:58
ToApolytoXaosfor some reason wG's logo reminds that of Rolling Stone :S23:59
--- Day changed Sat Jul 12 2014
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ToApolytoXaosby the way, are you on holidays or for business trip?00:03
@scrottiejob interview00:12
ToApolytoXaosgood luck mate00:13
ToApolytoXaosi'm sure it will go well00:14
@scrottiewell, on my way back from it now00:14
@scrottieI'm sure I came across strange and babbley00:14
@scrottiejust because I always do00:14
ToApolytoXaosno need to worry00:14
@scrottiebad at small talk00:14
@scrottieand I can't do this and that at the same time00:14
ToApolytoXaosfor sure :D00:15
jabberwokhttp://marc.info/?l=openbsd-announce&m=140510513704996&w=2  ... first LibreSSL Portable released, builds on linux, solaris, osx, freebsd.01:06
@scrottiegotta put the lappy to sleep.  out of batteries to shove in the thing.01:20
ToApolytoXaosanyway folks, it's time for me to get some sleep as well01:21
@scrottiedidn't make it very far on my homework.  had to upgrade R and reinstall all of the packages becuase a package I needed didn't like my old version that Debian installed.01:21
@scrottieg'night, ToApo!01:21
ToApolytoXaosif not tomorrow, Sunday we shall talk again01:21
@scrottieSunday for me01:21
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@scrottieheya e1z015:41
jabberwok=pours coffee=16:03
e1z0can i run webgui with apache and without mod_perl ? just as fastcgi ?16:39
@scrottieif you run wG8, yes, though that would be slightly indirect17:14
@scrottierunning mod_proxy under apache would be more direct with wG817:14
@scrottieor if you're just doing dev, you can run wG8 without any other webserver17:14
e1z0i see17:15
@scrottieor low volume hosting17:16
@scrottieit runs on Plack17:16
@scrottiewG7 requires mod_perl unless you get the PlebGUI branch which does Plack17:16
e1z0i have my own dedicated server for that17:17
e1z0thats no problem, i can run it with mod_proxy or standalone17:17
e1z0thats no matter, i think i will use it with apache mod_proxy17:17
@scrottie7 is the stable branch but it's pretty old by now17:18
@scrottieand 8 is alpha17:18
e1z0is it stable for production use ?17:21
@scrottiewhich one?18:22
@scrottie"stable" is stable.  "alpha" is alpha.18:22
@scrottiewhat are you doing with it?18:22
@scrottieI recommend either running 8 if you want community support and don't care about a lot of rough edges, or else 7 if're going to get commercial support18:23
jabberwokis http://preaction.github.io/WebGUI/8-apps.html   worth linking to?18:44
@scrottiesure, why not.18:58
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ToApolytoXaosgreetings everyone. scrottie, how did it go, your job interview that is...14:27
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jabberwokKS:   76 Backers    $2,611   pledged of $10,000 goal  ... 10 days to go.14:59
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@scrottieyeah.  TPF grant route is my best option.19:07
@scrottieToApolytoXaos, job interview went well.  catching up on email.  was out the last 1.5 days.19:07
@scrottiethis is rough because I'd really, really like to work with Reini on the Perl compiler toolchain.19:07
@scrottieI know it's crazy, but sometimes I go do things away from the computer for more than a day at a time.19:08
jabberwokeagds. you're not one of those people without a smartphone?    (( jabberwok hides his ancient nokia (capable only of text msgs, barely) ))19:09
@scrottieI had a rotary phone hooked up to a VoIP adapter using a SIP->Google Voice gateway on the 'net, but Google killed interoperation on Jabber and broke that little setup19:10
jabberwok:-)  i have that 1955 model 500 yet, of course19:10
@scrottieso I got a little old Nokia so I could make calls, but I still carry the two way pager (which have SMS gateways now days)19:10
@scrottiemaybe I can hook the rotary up to cell19:11
* jabberwok ponders, --- there's no reason wG can't talk to an asterisk instance... (later, later)19:13
jabberwoki'm still preparing to get a wG instance up.  keep getting sidetracked, reading too much documentation on too many different bits.  my primary goal is to write a blog post that documents the entire process, from barefoot (virtual) machine to up-and-running19:18
@scrottieI'm hoping that little of that will stay relavent for long19:33
@scrottiemy installer mostly worked about a year ago19:34
@scrottiegoing to try to do the importer tomorrow19:34
@scrottietoday looks like catching up on email after being out the weekend19:35
@scrottieand nagging ToApolytoXaos19:35
jabberwokhttps://raw.github.com/gist/2973558/webgui_installer.pl     40419:54
jabberwokerr, 400  Bad Request19:55
jabberwokusing:  [[  wget https://raw.github.com/gist/2973558/webgui_installer.pl --no-check-certificate  ]] from https://gist.github.com/scrottie/297355819:56
@scrottiehttps://gist.githubusercontent.com/scrottie/2973558/raw/cae81f3f15f4670ab3a9398fffc3d1b952e0dd2f/webgui_installer.pl but I don't see a way to permalink to a gist file20:00
haarggithub has a lot of urls like that that aren't linked anywhere, so i often just try to guess20:03
@scrottieproblem is those change with time.  the other link used to work.20:04
jabberwokoh the joys of using Someone Else's System20:05
jabberwokit's working!  (at least, not crashing)20:09
jabberwokhttps://gist.github.com/scrottie/2973558/raw/webgui_installer.pl     should allegedly be canonical20:13
jabberwokper:  https://gist.github.com/atenni/560461520:13
--- Day changed Tue Jul 15 2014
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@scrottieshit is going down.02:12
@scrottieserious shit is going down.  ToApolytoXaos, I need your help.  or someone's help.02:12
@scrottieckotil, xdanger, if ToApolytoXaos can't, can you hook me up with a quickie but good looking site?02:30
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ToApolytoXaoshey scrottie, how are you? i have sent you a messages a couple of days ago.22:50
ToApolytoXaoshow did the interview go?22:51
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@scrottieit went well23:09
@scrottienow I have to figure out what to do with that23:10
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ToApolytoXaosby the way, i have visited many websites to get ideas, but you did not tell me what content to place into the website and basically i got stuck lol23:20
@scrottieif I take that job, I can't do this23:20
ToApolytoXaosnot even during weekends?23:21
@scrottieyeah I did =P23:21
ToApolytoXaosyou did what exactly?23:21
@scrottiespace for banners for major backers, instructions for developers to get started, and link/instructions for beta23:21
@scrottie"instructions" could be very brief pointers23:22
@scrottiemake sense?23:22
ToApolytoXaosyeah, but have they responded to such request?23:24
ToApolytoXaosi mean the clients you were calling23:24
@scrottieone of them gave me a maybe23:25
ToApolytoXaosa maybe...hmm23:26
ToApolytoXaosso, is it going to be a dead end or with a "maybe in the near future" motto?23:26
@scrottieand them something kind of crazy just happened a few minutes ago23:27
ToApolytoXaosyou won the lottery?23:27
ToApolytoXaosso, you won't continue with wg8?23:33
@scrottiedidn't say that.  I said I have to figure out what I am doing.23:33
ToApolytoXaoswell, you need to make a living, correct?23:34
@scrottieand I've been avoiding a full time corporate job because I like my side projects too much, and my experience is that 40 hours of intense development leaves me completely drained23:34
ToApolytoXaosthen work full time for a certain amount of time, save some money, and then stop from work to concentrate on your side projects23:34
ToApolytoXaossounds fair like that23:34
@scrottie"Heads up:The dinosaurs didn't "die out." They were all taken into heaven during the velocirapture."23:35
ToApolytoXaosnever heard that before23:35
@scrottiethat was kind of my plan, but I failed to get any interviews in Tempe for Perl or Java, and I don't want to do that to Reini and cPanel.23:35
@scrottiethat's more for jabberwok23:36
@scrottiealso, it would be dumb to relocate to TX just to bail soon afterwards.  unless I really really hated TX.  23:36
ToApolytoXaoswhy not work remotely scrottie?23:38
@scrottiethat's still full time development, and I actually failed to find anything.23:38
@scrottielet's talk about websites.23:38
ToApolytoXaosfailed to find anything?! O_o23:39
@scrottiedoing Perl anyway23:39
ToApolytoXaosi have found so many Perl jobs to work remotely23:39
@scrottiebut YAPC gave me leads, and this KickStarter gave me leads23:39
ToApolytoXaosi see23:40
@scrottiecPanel would be cool because I'd be working on the perl compiler.23:40
ToApolytoXaosin C you mean?23:40
ToApolytoXaosto maintain version 5.8.x?23:40
ToApolytoXaosbut it's too damn old23:41
ToApolytoXaosat least they could take it to 5.1223:41
@scrottieer, not 5.8, 5.1423:42
@scrottieReini is targeting 5.14 then 5.2023:42
@scrottieI am apparently absolutely kicking ass at raising funds but I need your help with the site =)23:42
ToApolytoXaoswell, i did my research and i did not know what to do23:43
ToApolytoXaosbecause i'm a programmer, not a designer23:43
ToApolytoXaosi could clone another site or even use some WP themes to work around23:43
ToApolytoXaosbut i don't know what you have in mind23:44
ToApolytoXaosfor example, you did not mention what to place to "About" "Contact" "Mission" and such23:44
ToApolytoXaosyou have to provide me something like wireframe23:44
@scrottieyeah, I'm not a designer either.23:45
ToApolytoXaosi think the WP logic sounds better, since it's GPL-ed23:46
ToApolytoXaosbut it would be assembled as static pages23:46
ToApolytoXaospure html5 and css323:47
ToApolytoXaosalso, i would like to clarify something; i'm perfectionist and that causes me tremendous pressure23:47
@scrottiehere's a good looking site:  http://cartodb.github.io/odyssey.js/23:47
ToApolytoXaosespecially when i feel i disappoint someone23:47
@scrottiemaybe I'll clone that and change the image and button23:47
@scrottiedoesn't need "about" or anything.  just links to other things.23:49
@scrottiebut at this point, there's no "if" about whether it is needed23:49
@scrottieor very little23:49
ToApolytoXaosyeah, why not23:50
ToApolytoXaosyou know better than me :/23:50
@scrottiebut you are more than welcome to clone that for me and stick another image in there and make it link to our stuff =P23:51
ToApolytoXaosokay let me try that hopefully tomorrow at work23:52
ToApolytoXaosit's fully js things23:52
@scrottieshould take about an hour23:52
ToApolytoXaosokay, send me an email (you have it through github) with the things you need to share on the website, and i will arrange a couple of themes i would find appealing23:56
@scrottiemsg me your email again?23:57
--- Day changed Wed Jul 16 2014
ToApolytoXaosokay let me check it00:01
ToApolytoXaosbanner dimensions? you did not share00:01
@scrottieI said "some standard medium size" which pretty clearly leaves the task of figuring that out to you.00:02
@scrottiejust has to look okay.00:03
ToApolytoXaosi will take my time to find a decent theme and copy it00:04
ToApolytoXaosif you don't mind that is00:04
ToApolytoXaostake your time to concentrate on your work and i will take things slowly but progressively00:04
ToApolytoXaosi'm also learning Perl at a thorough level, therefore i would appreciate it if you could show some sympathy to a "newbie"00:05
@scrottieplease don't take your time.00:05
@scrottieit can also be fixed later.00:05
@scrottiebut the KickStarter ends in a few days, and I have a situation where three people *might* put in a lot of money but none want to go first.  the site would help with that a lot.00:06
@scrottiewhich is why I'm about to do it myself unless you can help me out here.00:06
ToApolytoXaosoh :/ you have a dead line00:07
ToApolytoXaosthen you have to do it yourself mate, because i work during the say and have only the nights available00:07
ToApolytoXaosalso when i find time at work, i cheat a bit00:07
ToApolytoXaosi did not know you had a deadline, that's why i said "ok" when you kindly aske00:08
ToApolytoXaosi really am sorry :(00:08
ToApolytoXaosi did not know about the deadline00:09
@scrottieI'm sorry I wasn't clear about that00:09
@scrottieI was just assuming a one hour job00:09
ToApolytoXaosfor an expert, not a newbie00:11
@scrottiefor a butcher, not a perfectionist =)00:11
ToApolytoXaosif you want, you can remove the permissions from me if that's a problem mate00:13
@scrottieaww, chill out.00:14
ToApolytoXaosi'm just asking man00:15
@scrottieI don't expect you having access will cause problems, but if you don't use them for a long while, I'll remove them just to keep things tidy.  00:16
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jabberwok81 backers - $9,781 ...!00:43
* scrottie nods slowly00:44
jabberwokhere's a toast (( raising his RC Cola )) to making it00:44
@scrottiethank you00:45
@scrottie<html class=" js no-flexbox canvas canvastext webgl no-touch geolocation postmessage no-websqldatabase indexeddb hashchange history draganddrop websockets rgba hsla multiplebgs backgroundsize borderimage borderradius boxshadow textshadow opacity cssanimations csscolumns cssgradients no-cssreflections csstransforms csstransforms3d csstransitions fontface generatedcontent video audio localstorage sessionstorage webworkers applicationcache svg00:49
@scrottieinlinesvg smil svgclippaths"00:49
@scrottiejabberwok, you're crazy00:49
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@scrottieheya beppu02:22
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beppuHey there, scrottie .03:25
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ckotilscrottie: sorry but im not a very good designer 15:18
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beppuhaarg: Could you upload https://github.com/haarg/wgdev to CPAN?19:28
beppuIs the admin ui in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hb66FfnUQ8 (from 1:07) already in AlliumCepa/webgui ?  If so, how do you enable it?19:39
beppu...or is it only in dannymk's fork?  https://github.com/dannymk/webgui19:42
@scrottiesorry, yeah, danny_mk's fork19:43
@scrottieI think he moved off to another branch than the one I was watching19:43
@scrottieyou'd have to get details from him19:44
@scrottiehe also changed out JS libraries again and started going a different direction since then19:44
beppuHe changed a lot of things.  Merging that work in may be very difficult if he hasn't been tracking plainblack/webgui religiously while working on his fork.19:50
@scrottiehe hasn't been.  he's not good at git.19:51
ckotilin that video, he says the D word20:07
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beppuThey've been very successful.  I used to visit a coworking space called DropLabs and they held a lot of Drupal meetings there.  https://droplabs.net/search/node/drupal20:19
ckotiloh yeah. ive got a buddy who helps run drupalCon chicago. he's very dedicated to drupal. 20:20
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--- Day changed Thu Jul 17 2014
haargscrottie: congrats00:28
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jabberwokYOU MADE IT00:37
@scrottiethank you.01:52
* scrottie sips celebratory scotch.01:52
@scrottieany picks on a replacement background image for http://cartodb.github.io/odyssey.js/?02:28
@scrottieer, a repalcement for the one used there?  which is pretty awesome?02:29
@scrottiemaybe something more subdued?  the fogginess and desaturation in http://cartodb.github.io/odyssey.js/ works well, imo.02:56
@scrottiealso, I just realized this design doesn't really build in space for banners.02:57
beppuIs this for http://alliumcepa.github.io/ ?03:00
beppuI'm getting them from http://www.reddit.com/r/earthporn 03:17
@scrottiethat's misty all right03:25
beppuDoes https://www.thegamecrafter.com/ use webgui?05:28
@scrottieoriginal iterations did but the current iteration doesn't.06:01
@scrottiehttps://www.flickr.com/photos/26965261@N03/6261425457/sizes/l ... wouldn't work for this purpose but it's a cool photo06:06
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@scrottiehttps://alliumcepa.github.io/ ... could use some sepia/blur on the bg.  the sepia script-fu script is failing in my gimp install.  whee.  links are preliminary.  another background could be better.06:54
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beppuscrottie: You could probably achieve a blur using CSS.07:10
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beppuYou'd have to restructure your html so that the background-image wasn't on the header element.07:18
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cngCongrats on the funding! :-D07:38
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spacebatyay for funding07:50
sany_okcongrats scrottie!07:54
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kaare_Soooo... When will it be ready? hehe08:13
spacebatI suggest that once some significant improvements have been made, make a booking for an episode of the FLOSS Weekly netcast to get the word out and spur involvement09:00
k-mangood idea spacebat 09:13
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jabberwokhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGUI   updated15:41
spacebatgood stuff15:47
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ckotilsweet bg image on the github.io site15:48
@scrottiejabberwok, nice, thanks!16:14
@scrottieckotil, thanks.  I want to add some kind of a fog/sepia effect to give better contrast and make it more subdued.  file:///tmp/odyssey.js/img/rocks.jpg was the other one I was looking at.  it's lovely but way too bright and looks odd if it isn't bright, at least with my photo retouching skills.16:15
@scrottiethinking of putting banners where the get started /developers buttons are now16:17
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@scrottieokay, photo effected up the rocky craigs image.  better contrast on the wording now at least.18:20
ckotilput a border around the white text?18:30
ckotilit's getting washed out18:30
@scrottieyeah.  I thought I pushed up an image that's even more darkened but github.io is being slow or something.18:31
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ToApolytoXaosgreetings everyone.19:59
ToApolytoXaoshey scrottie, good job with the site mate.19:59
@scrottieheya ToApolytoXaos20:30
ToApolytoXaosthank wget and the right parameter combination lol20:33
@scrottiedidn't know wget could fish out links to style sheets and js libraries from HTML...20:33
ToApolytoXaosyes it can20:34
ToApolytoXaosthere you go http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/downloading-entire-web-site-wget20:35
ToApolytoXaosi did not use --domains option though, because i would have cloned the entire github.io i presume LOL!20:36
@scrottieah, forgot to commit the darker image20:41
ToApolytoXaoswhich image?20:48
ToApolytoXaosbtw, why you added that octopus-like icon for webgui?20:48
@scrottiethe background one20:56
@scrottiethe octopus is "Gooey".  s/he's the wG mascot.20:56
jabberwokthat word always makes me think of the floor of the Astrodome after Hurricane Katrina... mass. cot.21:06
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, ah bummer...it looked to my eyes that Gooey is Octopress's mascot23:21
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@scrottieinteresting.  I keep learning things.00:27
ToApolytoXaoslike what?00:28
ToApolytoXaosyou didn't know?!00:28
@scrottieand that sounds like it would have been a good way to go for spitting out a site quick00:28
@scrottieno, I've been living in a hole and working on an Atari 2600 game!00:28
ToApolytoXaosoctopress describes itself quite well on index page00:29
ToApolytoXaosdamn O_o00:30
* scrottie nods00:30
@scrottieunit tests in perl00:30
@scrottiecare of Acme::650200:30
ToApolytoXaosindeed Perl is an amazingly interesting language00:31
ToApolytoXaosthe more i dive in, the more furious i feel with myself for not learning it earlier00:31
@scrottieit is frustrating not knowing useful things, but you can't know everything or even half of it00:32
ToApolytoXaosit "looks ugly" for some, but too native to me for some reason00:32
@scrottieeveryone struggles with that00:32
ToApolytoXaosthat is the beauty of it mate00:32
@scrottiesometimes it's nice just to go hack with things you know rather than always learning something00:32
ToApolytoXaosto get lots of trials and errors to get it right00:32
ToApolytoXaosuse a notebook to take notes00:33
ToApolytoXaosa traditional handbook, not a PC lol00:33
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jabberwokQ: the biggest vulnerability of WordPress is probably that the .php files have permissions to allow modification by the running .php files themselves. Can WebGUI be configured so the effective uid/gid of the Perl script, has no Write permission to "itself" (the scripts themselves)?15:29
@scrottieyup, and I imagine WordPress could be too.15:30
jabberwoktrue; you can, mostly, but then the "automatic update" fails and users gripe that "i can't install a plugin!" =rolls eyes=15:31
@scrottieI chown'd my firefox to root.  it can't run updates either.  aww, poor firefox.15:32
jabberwokhttp://www.cmsmatrix.org/ie-cms/aloe-vera-and-diabetic?layout=flat   <-- website generated by WebGUI, discussing Allium Cepa.  fwiw.15:33
jabberwokhttps://www.plainblack.com/services/training/webgui-primer  <-- will they release the rights to those, or do we need new documentation15:36
jabberwoksame question about mascot, gooey15:36
@scrottieadd those questions to the ticket, if you don't mind16:50
@scrottievalid questions, but I want to actually make some progress before I start asking for stuff.16:50
jabberwokby 'ticket' do you mean  https://github.com/AlliumCepa/webgui/issues16:55
jabberwokand in particular #7 "work with PB to figure how much to reuse" right16:56
jabberwok"working in a group" always has an element of, well, organizational / politics.16:58
@scrottieyup, that one17:09
@scrottie"working in a group"?17:09
@scrottiethis group or on the github...?17:09
jabberwokgenerally any community effort17:09
jabberwokforum.simutrans.com/   i've contributed some graphics and even a tiny bit of code (tho it's C++, ugh)17:11
jabberwokhttp://search.cpan.org/dist/Starman/  -- 503. cpan has been down a lot lately17:11
@scrottieI guess most of perl.org was down for maintenance yesterday too.  but yeah, cpan has been having a bad time.17:12
@scrottieoh, cool... http://www.simutrans.com/en/17:16
@scrottiefrom the name, it sounded like some simulation library written in Fortran or something.17:16
jabberwokyepp, ... that's been 90% of my "gaming" experience for the past, oh, decade17:17
jabberwoknot long after Everquest ate half a year of my life.17:17
@scrottiehalf a year?  that's all.  wow.  you got off light.17:19
@scrottieI wish I had more time for games.17:19
@scrottieone of my roommates is constantly playing *something*.  it's always the greatest thing ever but sometimes it only lasts a week before the next greatest thing ever.17:20
jabberwokhttp://blog.wlindley.com/2014/07/webgui-vs-wordpress-overview/   first stab at this17:28
@scrottieyou actually got wG8 running?  and ran the upgrades?17:28
@scrottiewG uses a lot of YUI for various features.17:29
jabberwokAhh, ok.  -- and no, i started to install on a vm but got sidetracked when my shiny new 8GB memory turned out bad (yank, yank, arrgh)17:30
jabberwokhttp://yuilibrary.com/  that YUI , right17:31
@scrottielooks right, but I'm used to seeing it at a yahoo.com URL.17:31
jabberwokhm, that's listed as canonical by wikipedia.  not that i 100% trust /them/17:32
jabberwokso, YUI-Richtexteditor instead of tinyMCE18:01
@scrottieI think it mostly uses tinyMCE.18:02
jabberwokhttp://blog.wlindley.com/2014/07/interpreting-a-wordpress-export-xml-file/   Added sample code at end, to show the contents of "posts" and "pages" 18:24
jabberwoknow i just need to transmogrify the php from WP core, to equivalent perl, and output "real" html18:26
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jabberwokthis php auto-paragraph code is nasty.  scrottie: the ghost of TransientBaby... 21:03
@scrottiejust use Inline::PHP?21:03
jabberwokpossibly. or one of the existing html parsers from cpan, although that wouldn't reproduce "warts and all"21:05
@scrottieor just save the HTML rendered by a .php app21:19
jabberwokgood point.  this should only ever have to be run once (-ish).21:22
haargjabberwok: there are alternatives to search.cpan.org that have been much more reliable recently.  particularly metacpan.org22:15
haargi'm not sure what's been going on with s.c.o.  maybe the server move will help.  the maintainer of it doesn't seem particularly involved anymore.22:17
jabberwokyes... perl.org also seems to be having issues.  i usually use metacpan but when i'm lazy google tends to return s.c.o22:36
haargperl.org is down for a server move http://log.perl.org/2014/07/7182014-scheduled-maintenance-moving-day.html22:37
haargs.c.o has been having its own issues though22:37
jabberwokhttp://blog.wlindley.com/2014/07/interpreting-a-wordpress-export-xml-file/   <-- code at the end, normalizes WordPress posts/pages by running, somewhat sanely, thru HTML::TreeBuilder with appropriate handling of comments and <pre> sections.22:37
jabberwokhttps://github.com/AlliumCepa/webgui/issues/9  --- trying to stick with github for ^^ such notations22:43
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beppumetacpan ftw:  https://metacpan.org/release/Starman04:43
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@scrottie yarr.01:48
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beppucd ~/ic/ice10:25
beppucd ~/ic/ice10:25
beppusource deve10:25
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beppuwhoops wrong terminal19:19
@scrottiemetasploit whitehouse.gov19:26
@scrottiewhoops, wrong channel ;)19:26
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ToApolytoXaosgreetings everyone20:13
ToApolytoXaos"smile and wave boys, smile and wave" - Penguin from Madagascar lol21:46
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jabberwokscrottie:  speaking of HP 3000s, my login transcript from a DecWriter III on 8 Nov 1980, at my Pascal class at MIT.  http://wlindley.com/images/hp-3000-transcript-pascal.jpg14:35
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jabberwokthe installer doesn't seem to much like running inside a perlbrew environment. 15:54
jabberwokat least on Debian, apt-get install for Curses et al, doesn't help with perlbrew.  'perlbrew off' and things proceed.15:55
jabberwok.... should i put critique of installer-as-it-exists in a github issue, or discuss here?15:57
jabberwoksuch as:   sudo password  remains in plaintext on screen during entire install.15:59
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@scrottiejabberwok, if you have time and inclination, consider updating the Wikipedia page on the HP3000 series.  I got some consulting work at a place that has one.  I don't have to touch it directly, but it's very much  still in production.  I went to read about it and learned little.19:32
@scrottieand thanks for the comments on the installer.  I suspected that it had bit rotted since it didn't work for danny_mk the last time he tried it and that was a year ago.19:32
@scrottieand no, it doesn't support brewprew.  that feature could be added but I don't know if the curses based installer is the primary direction we want to take.19:33
@scrottiedid anyone catch mst's talk?  I haven't watched it yet but he told meaabout it in the hall.19:33
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zylopfaGreetings fine Webguians!19:38
ToApolytoXaosgreetings everyone.19:44
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, if i'm not mistaken you are good with Java too, isn't that right?19:45
@scrottieugh.  I'm always rusty with Java.19:46
zylopfascrottie, grats a lot on the fine campaign!!19:46
@scrottiethank you.19:46
zylopfaGrats to all of us!19:46
@scrottieJava and JavaScript I've been doing since they first came out.. but very on and off.19:46
@scrottieat this point, I'm really good at Java 1.2!19:46
ToApolytoXaosscrottie, i'm doing my revision because in 2 weeks i will be on annual leave and i will send a few CVs and i might need to revise my generics knowledge19:46
@scrottieyour revision?19:47
@scrottieI'm going to be quiet for about a week here too.  I'm hauling my car rebuild project back to AZ from TX by moving truck and wrapping up a few other odds and ends.19:48
@scrottieI won't be too much of a stranger, just not doing anything too interesting for a week.19:48
ToApolytoXaoswait a minute...you got the Texas job AND you are running the wG project at the same time?!19:49
ToApolytoXaosand studying as well?19:50
@scrottienot exactly19:51
@scrottielong story, but I've already been bouncing between TX and AZ19:51
@scrottiebut not Houston.  College Station.19:51
@scrottieseeing someone who moved out here for a postdoc research position at tamu.edu.19:51
ToApolytoXaosi suck with geography lol, let alone with US states :D19:52
@scrottieso my project while I'm in TX has been rebuilding a Honda Z600.19:52
@scrottie1,100 miles away but a straight shot by Amtrak.19:52
@scrottieAmtrak = the US's badly neglected national rail system.19:52
ToApolytoXaosdismantling a car and reconstructing from scratch?19:52
ToApolytoXaos*it from19:52
@scrottiethis country has a fetish for crumbling infrastructure.19:52
@scrottienot entirely.  not yet.  just the engine.19:53
ToApolytoXaosyeah they like BIG things19:53
@scrottieTexas is even worse in that regard.19:53
@scrottieso I didn't take the cPanel job.19:53
@scrottiemaybe after this.  we'll see.19:53
ToApolytoXaoshuge cars, huge highways, humongous burgers...19:53
@scrottiethe Z600 isn't huge ;)19:53
@scrottiehttp://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cartype.com%2Fpics%2F7213%2Ffull%2Fhonda_z600_coupe_fs_71.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cartype.com%2Fpages%2F4031%2Fhonda_z600_coupe__1971&h=656&w=900&tbnid=jxKb1iJUsxeEhM%3A&zoom=1&docid=8xt_0qqLV79w_M&ei=F5fOU4nACeOd8QGZ-oHoCA&tbm=isch&ved=0CDoQMygHMAc&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=289&page=1&start=0&ndsp=10  19:53
@scrottienot mine19:53
ToApolytoXaosthat's 6 liters engine19:54
@scrottiekind of a bizarre pic but gives a better idea of scale19:54
ToApolytoXaosit will die in the middle19:54
ToApolytoXaosthe z600 does not represent the engine power?19:55
@scrottieit does. 600cc.19:55
@scrottie= 0.6L19:55
ToApolytoXaostherefore the engine it's 6 liters of oil19:55
@scrottie2 cylinder engine19:55
ToApolytoXaosi would love to drive it!19:55
@scrottieit's fun19:56
@scrottieVolkswagen bugs tower over you19:56
ToApolytoXaosi would compete Mr. Bean's Mini19:56
@scrottieyou'd compete it?19:56
@scrottieZ600 is basically a cheap Japanese Mini knock off19:56
@scrottiebefore the Japanese stopped building disposable garbage19:57
ToApolytoXaosi love Japanese technology19:57
@scrottieme too19:57
ToApolytoXaosi would love to buy an old Toyota Corolla19:57
@scrottiebut in the early 70's, they were basically like China now19:57
ToApolytoXaoswe used to bring them here straight from Japan19:57
@scrottie'75 Corolla was my first car19:57
ToApolytoXaosthose cars are damn important19:57
ToApolytoXaoslet me tell you what we did with a friend19:57
ToApolytoXaosthe car was almost 20 years old19:58
@scrottiearound '73 and '74, they started building *quality* and doing awesome design and engineering work19:58
@scrottiebut before then, they were doing cheap knock offs19:58
ToApolytoXaosand he was forced by the government to withdraw it because of age19:58
ToApolytoXaoswe decided to make it crack19:58
ToApolytoXaoswe removed the oil from the engine19:58
ToApolytoXaosand prepared everything19:58
@scrottiejust put it in stoarage.19:59
ToApolytoXaoshelp with certain services, my pal's dad and so forth19:59
ToApolytoXaoswait :D19:59
ToApolytoXaoswe took the car a huge trip of 200km19:59
ToApolytoXaosLimassol - Nicosia and back to Limassol19:59
ToApolytoXaosit did not complain at all!!!19:59
ToApolytoXaoswe took it to the mechanic19:59
ToApolytoXaoshe opened the engine cover and realized that the engine self protected itself with a thick layer of oil, converting it in a form of grease20:00
ToApolytoXaosengine *itself20:00
ToApolytoXaosmy pal start crying and kissing the car :D20:01
ToApolytoXaosthey have been inseparable since then :D20:01
ToApolytoXaoshe pays everything coming straight from Japan20:01
ToApolytoXaosit's a living mule that car20:02
@scrottieI don't have to drive for anything (and I have a motorcycle that's more fo a daily runner than the Z600), but if I had to drive, I think I'd import one of these:  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Subaru_Sambar_Dias_001.JPG20:02
ToApolytoXaossomebody's a big Jackie Chan fan20:02
@scrottiealso Kai class.  same size as the Z600... 3 meters long20:03
@scrottiehaven't watched many Jackie Chan movies.  nope.  but it sounds like if I got one, I'd hear from them (fans)20:03
ToApolytoXaosthat's the car i have, but no diesel http://luigimotors.com/images/stock/Ford/Focus/Diesel-RF57/BIG/1.JPG20:04
@scrottiethe Focus is really common in the states.20:04
@scrottiethey're okay for a budget car.20:05
ToApolytoXaosi did not have a choice back when i bought it :/20:05
@scrottieoutside of Texas, there isn't much loyalty to American cars in the US20:05
ToApolytoXaosi want a corolla :(20:05
ToApolytoXaosthat's my pal's car20:06
ToApolytoXaosgood ol' college memories20:06
@scrottieonly other car I've ever owned20:07
@scrottie'75.  2TC engine20:07
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ToApolytoXaosaaah that too brings back so many warm child memories with family :D20:18
jabberwokscrottie: after i substituted mariadb, the installer completed normally. so now i'm at step 0 of the readme, methinks. "Start from WebGUI 7.10.23 or the example .conf and create.sql that comes with WebGUI 8." -- i'm not sure what that means or what exactly i do next.20:25
@scrottiestep 0 on which readme?  https://github.com/alliumcepa/webgui?20:28
@scrottieif the installer finished, wG8 should be installed and ready to start20:29
@scrottieand it should have left you a .sh for starting it20:29
@scrottieand told you that it did and where it is20:29
jabberwokhmm, lemme see20:30
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jabberwokreading webgui_installer.pl suggests there should be a webgui.sh but `find . -iname "*sh"` from my ~homedir only finds cleanup.sh from the installer itself. -- is there a logfile of all the decisions that the installer made?20:55
@scrottiewhat did you use for an installdir?  it should be in there.20:57
@scrottieI think it defaults to /data20:57
@scrottieif a step fails, it submits the stdout/stderr of that to a cgi on slowass.net (with permission)20:58
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jabberwokpretty sure it defaulted to /home/bill/webgui/something ... there was-and-is no /data on this system.... just did `updatedb` and then `locate webgui.sh` says there isn't one anywhere. odd.21:11
@scrottiehrm.  okay.21:13
@scrottiethanks for the reports.21:13
jabberwoki'll try it again soon and keep closer notes to see if i can grok what's happening.21:15
@scrottiehang on21:17
@scrottiejust pushed up a new version that notices and reports error when it can't open webgui.sh21:19
@scrottieso if that fails, it won't fail silently21:19
@scrottie(bad scrottie!)21:19
jabberwokc'est bon21:21
ckotilfinally got a 64bit wre (latest) going on centos621:25
jabberwokwrong window21:48
jabberwokwell i guess that password's shot now21:49
* scrottie nods slowly21:49
* scrottie points at perlbot21:49
* jabberwok social-engineers himself21:49
jabberwokat least it was only my virtual-machine one.21:52
jabberwokGlobal symbol "$installer_dir" requires explicit package name at webgui_installer.pl line 1433.  ### should be $install_dir methinks21:57
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jabberwokahh, it gets this far -->  Configuring Imager-File-PNG-0.90 ... N/A ||| ! Configure failed for Imager-File-PNG-0.90. See /root/.cpanm/work/1234.567/build.log for details.22:16
jabberwokPNG: Generic: includes not found - libraries not found22:17
jabberwokPNG: v1.6: includes not found - libraries not found22:17
jabberwokPNG: v1.5: includes not found - libraries not found   ...... etc22:17
jabberwokposted possible fix in issues page22:22
jabberwokcentos will probably need the other fix from the document i linked.22:22
@scrottieokay, thank you for your research there.  I don't think I'll be able to work on this for a week though =(22:23
jabberwokOoooo it's creating databases22:23
@scrottieheh, what else is it going to do?22:24
jabberwoktemplating out config files, couldn't open output file /etc/nginx/conf.d/webgui8.conf: ||Permission denied 22:24
@scrottiebut I could merge the installer into wG8 and make sure you have commit access if you want to commit directly =)22:24
* scrottie nods22:24
@scrottieit should probably use sudo to do that22:24
jabberwokbut it's Very Close22:24
@scrottiesudo support isn't well tested.  mostly I just ran it as root.22:24
jabberwoktried running as root... got the rpc result=22 http code=408  that i just posted in Issues.  had that happen before.  but running again as root, it halts when webgui user Already Exists.22:30
@scrottieno, that's not because the user exists... github might not throttle too many checkouts of the same repo in too short of order by the same IP22:33
@scrottiebut it looks like the git clone failed22:33
@scrottieso it should probably be smarter about that.22:33
jabberwokin general the chance to retry the same step -- after correcting the error in another vt, for example -- would be the single biggest improvement22:34
@scrottieABORT RETRY FAIL?22:34
jabberwok(( sound of floppy seeking incessantly ))  da-na da-na. da-na.  daaaaa-naaaa.22:35
jabberwokooo    Running upgrade script.... Installation is wrapping up.    ||/data/webgui.sh shows how to manually launch WebGUI. 22:36
jabberwokit works22:37
jabberwokchampage all aroudn22:38
@scrottieneeds love though.22:38
jabberwokhttp://blog.wlindley.com/2014/07/webgui8-pre-release-install/   written up 22:55
jabberwok100% functional.   splendid.22:57
ichesnokovIt would be nice to have a set of command-line parameters to install WebGUI in an "unattended" mdoe23:08
ichesnokovI.e. ./webgui_installer.pl --site www.example.com --db_user root --db_pass 123456 et23:08
ichesnokov(my 2 cents)23:09
ichesnokovNice writing btw.23:09
ichesnokovBTW moving to cpanm instead of cpan would help with installing modules under perlbrew23:10
ichesnokov(it would be nice to have comments in that blog too btw)23:12
ichesnokovOut of interest - is there a plugin for WebGUI that would implement a shop similar to Ebay? One of my former clients wants something like this and asks me about the existing solution that can be quickly set up and used. The down side is that I'm not aware of any written in Perl (nor in other language, but at least I'm pretty sure that they exist).23:13
jabberwokthe installer uses cpanm, it's just the config that's not quite perfected, methinks.  Yes, i like the installer parameters concept; did you want to open an Issue with that ?23:18
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@scrottieichesnokov, come back!23:33
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jabberwokegads, the WordPress Codex still runs MediaWiki 1.15.5 from 2010?!  (as revealed in the generator tag at codex.wordpress.org) 15:28
jabberwokeven their billion-dollar company can't keep their critical software updated.15:29
jabberwokhttp://www.cvedetails.com/vendor/7823/Webgui.html  --- only three vulnerabilities /ever/ 15:38
jabberwokcompare:  http://www.cvedetails.com/product/4096/Wordpress-Wordpress.html  177 vulns, 12 in 2014 alone15:39
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jabberwokthe biggest challenge i see is creating excellent documentation.  that's one place WordPress excels.  stuff like this:  https://make.wordpress.org/docs/plugin-developer-handbook/17:12
jabberwokhttp://blogs.perl.org/users/damien_dams_krotkine/2013/09/p5-mop.html    ... fascinating.17:26
@scrottieI'm going to need help with a lot of this stuff.  I already have an ambitious scope.  I can't really throw much more on.  I'm hoping that if we show some signs of life, we can attract more people to help.17:57
@scrottieThe README.md has a link to a few of the handbooks.  I think there are 5 total.  But you're welcome to create a ticket for taking and updating those to be correct for 8 and to be better documentation.17:58
jabberwokcheers, i hope to do as much as possible.  my last WordPress clients are acting like salted slugs, this all comes along at a good time.18:08
sany_okWhat do you think about having a Windows GUI client for posting, doing SEO optimizations, may be safe content generation, etc.?18:44
sany_okSEO tool to automate promotion of WebGUI sites as much as possible18:45
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@scrottieyo pvanthony19:30
jabberwoksany_ok: automated content and integrated seo assist would be splendid19:39
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@scrottiein my brain, SEO = spam21:00
@scrottiewG is already crawlable by search engines.  you just need content.  that gets people to link to you.  everything already works as it should.21:01
ckotilheh spamdexing21:01
@scrottieoh, he left21:01
* scrottie sighs21:01
@scrottieneed to give sany_ok a different chore21:01
jabberwokthere is a vast difference between "real" seo (real, unique, good content, well organized) versus snake-oil seo.21:49
jabberwok=sigh=  playing dirty with google only ever causes pain.  then again, using google only causes pain in the end too.  21:51
@scrottieI remember when Google used to return results that actually included some of your search terms21:51
jabberwoki would reply but i'd only sound cynical, jaded, and snarky21:54
jabberwoki preferred altavista21:54
* ToApolytoXaos recommends DuckDuckgo - it's a humongous Perl project with an amazing C++ engine ;)21:59
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jabberwokgosh the installer takes awhile on a bare debian system.  re-running to nail down my "how to install" notes.18:05
jabberwokthinking ahead to Docker: in the case of one physical server for a variety of clients, could the setup be that each client has their own independent docker container, with nginx on the "actual" machine simply talking via a port to each?18:06
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@scrottiedon't know enough about how people use Docker to say.23:00
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@scrottiein general, running on a high port still counts as running, basically23:18
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beppujabberwok scrottie :: something like this could probably be adapted to webgui:  https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-dockerise-and-deploy-multiple-wordpress-applications-on-ubuntu01:14
@scrottiewill read and/or paste into ticket01:14
beppuread all the way down to the comments, because the explanation of how to run multiple instances isn't in the article but in the comments.01:15
beppuscrottie: You should setup github so that commits to AlliumCepa/webgui are mentioned in this channel.02:18
beppuThere's a freenode example near the bottom of the instructions.02:20
jabberwoksounds like i need to redo my WP server... might make upgrades way easier05:18
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haargat some point i'm going to make a github commit reporter bot.  the thing provided by github is awful.13:38
haargsame thing with travis-ci13:39
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@scrottieseems like it would be hard to get wrong16:50
haargit joins, spews three lines, the parts16:50
@scrottieokay, not ideal.16:51
beppuhaarg scrottie / there's a way to make it send a message without joining or parting.17:57
haargchannel has to be -n though17:57
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jabberwokany suggestions on how to debug installer hang, https://github.com/AlliumCepa/webgui/issues/10 ?15:26
ckotili had issues with the 'latest' wre installer. i had to comment a lot of stuff out and install manually to complete it :/15:50
jabberwoki started in CP/M days and been programming Perl since '95, WordPress user since 2006 but I'm hoping to move to this system. Three weeks in and I haven't been able to manage to even get it running. Not sure how any mere mortal could use this.  Quite frustrating.16:01
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ckotili first installed webgui circa 2004 on freebsd16:18
ckotilthat was a chore16:18
ckotiljabberwok: try running /data/WebGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl see what it says16:22
ckotilthat will tell you if you have all the dependencies at least16:22
jabberwokall OK16:22
ckotilis this the installer for wg8?16:22
ckotili managed to get it going once about 2 yrs ago. it was foreign to me, being customed to wg716:23
jabberwokit worked once.  then i removed the user and the database/tables and rm -rf /data ... it might be stuck because the nginx config exists; that's the only complaint it gave, but it continued.  16:24
jabberwoki guess it wants to be the only thing running on the machine... whereas on any real web host, it will have to co-exist. At least with other webgui installs for multiple websites and customers.16:25
ckotilnah it can co-exist, it's just difficult16:26
jabberwoki'm thinking we can steal^H^H^H^H borrow the nginx-config-editing Perl code from webmin/virtualmin16:30
jabberwokwebmin still is mostly Perl-4-ish o.O16:31
jabberwokat least it's gpl.16:31
ckotilim trying to make an rpm of wg7, webgui part is done. now im on to wre to hopeully provide all the dependencies the webgui rpm requires :/16:44
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@scrottiedrove the moving truck to AZ, unloaded it, returned it, put away as much as I could21:14
@scrottiesorry to vanish for a bit21:14
@scrottie"any suggestions on how to debug installer hang" ... I'd suspect wre and the upgrade scripts.21:14
@scrottiejabberwok, re: why any mortal would use this, remember, 8 is alphaware and so is my installer.21:15
@scrottieyou're the second person to test it, and it has bitrotted over the last year.21:15
@scrottieI know the installer doesn't work, but if it can be made to work, it'll be a huge improvement over the install process (7's install process does work but it's time consuming and hard to get right)21:16
ckotilscrottie: im pretty close to having a drop in rpm for webgui and wre wg7 tho21:16
ckotil64bit centos621:17
ckotilfighting last few deps now21:17
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jabberwok*nod*   fortunatly, all of us here are under contract with Marvel or DC.  **wheels in box of tools**23:23
jabberwokoops, nobody's supposed to see the tool-box.23:23
jabberwok(that's what the cape is for)23:23
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@scrottieI'll take the bug reports I have in a day or two here.23:41
jabberwokcheers.  if anything i'm just overeager to get started.  23:42
@scrottieno, not at all.  it's kind of embarassing that I vanished like that right as this got funded.  timing.23:43
--- Day changed Wed Jul 30 2014
beppuYesterday, I thought I'd take a relatively easy bug and try to fix it.  I found out how little I knew about webgui.01:50
@scrottieyeah, there's some ... machenary... in palce01:52
@scrottieWebGUI/Asset*.pm somewhere (maybe Asset.pm itself) has logic for saving edits to assets.01:53
@scrottiesubclasses can hook in to that but for a bug like that that affects all assets, it's likely related to that.01:53
@scrottielogic for generating edit forms from asset schemas is in there too.01:53
beppuIt generates HTML?01:54
@scrottiethat's part of ?func=edit01:54
@scrottieor ?func=edit_save01:54
@scrottieI think01:54
@scrottieI might be mangling that01:54
@scrottieAsset.pm getEditForm(), www_editSave()01:55
@scrottiewww_ in front of a function means things will automatically dispatch there when ?func=whatever is added to the asset's URL01:56
@scrottieso a good place to start would be just to see if the parameter makes it there and then if it makes it into the database if so01:56
@scrottieselect url from asset where assetId=whatever01:56
@scrottieselect assetId from assetData where url=whatever01:57
beppuThe bug report makes it sound like WebGUI::Asset should have some property that stores a value representing a templating engine.  None of the properties I saw via `grep "^property" < lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm` popped out at me as likely candidates.02:05
beppuoh wait...  webgui stores templates in the template table (in the dataase)?!02:07
@scrottiea template is just another asset.02:07
@scrottieyou can look at it directly, and it has an edit screen.02:08
@scrottiethe WebGUI::Form::Template (I think it is) control that gets used in the edit screen of other assets lets you select an asset of the correct type (there are namespaces) and it links you to the edit screen for that template asset.02:08
@scrottieas far as www_editSave(), since it saves data for all kinds of assets, including ones written by 3rd parties, the field names aren't hard-coded.02:09
@scrottieinstead, it consults the asset definition of the current asset02:09
@scrottiewhich is built out of a lot of Moose goo02:09
@scrottieand yeah, in this case, WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm has a 'parser' field02:10
@scrottie select distinct parser from template02:10
@scrottie... WebGUI::Asset::Template::HTMLTemplate ... one result.  that seems wrong.02:10
@scrottieI thought 8 made heavy use of TT.  maybe upgrades haven't run yet on this copy of the database.02:11
@scrottiewG7 sites usually added TT support and did a lot of local templates in TT but I think the built in templates are all HTMLTemplate02:11
beppuIn the config file there's a templateParsers option that lists WebGUI::Asset::Template::HTMLTemplate and WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit02:12
@scrottiesounds right02:13
beppuI imagine whatever is in that config var should be the list of choices.02:13
@scrottieI never sat that up.  I only kept walking in to large existing projects.02:14
@scrottiethat already had that set up.02:14
beppuI actually have some $work to do, but I'll come back to this bug later.02:15
@scrottiethere's probably docs out there somewhere.. let me see02:15
@scrottiehttps://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-enable-other-template-engines ... there it is02:16
@scrottie"Now, restart your WebGUI and try to add a new tempate to the system. In the Properties tab under Template Engine, you should be able to select your newly-enabled template engine." yup02:17
beppuIt looks like the old admin form had a select for Template Type.02:18
beppu(page 10 of the pdf linked to from http://www.webgui.org/wgtv/template-toolkit-introduction)02:19
beppuI think I have a fix.  The parser property was set to noFormPost => 1;  When I turned that to 0, the select showed up with the right values.02:24
@scrottiewhere was it set to noFormPost?  in Template.pm?02:24
@scrottiethat would certainly do it.02:24
beppusubmitting the form changed the value too.02:25
@scrottiehmm?  02:26
beppuI think I fxied the bug.02:26
@scrottieahh, submitting the form *after* making that change02:26
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webguicommits[webgui] beppu opened pull request #11: allow template engine selection (master...master) https://github.com/AlliumCepa/webgui/pull/1102:29
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beppunice, you set up the github <=> irc integration.02:30
* scrottie nods02:30
@scrottieyeah, thanks for pointing me at that02:30
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webguicommits[webgui] scrottie pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/AlliumCepa/webgui/compare/d9fbe40c607e...2a7a3ed1ddf002:31
webguicommitswebgui/master eb96f00 John BEPPU: allow template engine selection...02:31
webguicommitswebgui/master 2a7a3ed Scott Walters: Merge pull request #11 from beppu/master...02:31
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@scrottiekinda spammy with the join/part02:32
beppuIf you're willing to set this channel to -n, you can make it message via notices instead.  (no join or part)02:33
@scrottiewhat exactly does -n do?02:33
@scrottiejust that?  don't have to be in the channel to /msg it?02:33
beppu+n means no external messages - https://www.alien.net.au/irc/chanmodes.html02:34
beppu-n means people who aren't on this channel can send messages to it.02:34
beppuhaarg (i think) was concerned about possible spam, but #reactjs is -n, and it's not been an issue there.02:35
@scrottieI'm glad I don't ever actually have to do any real operator duties.02:36
@scrottieI'm just trying to figure out the command =P02:36
-!- mode/#webgui [-n] by scrottie02:37
beppuI'm an irc noob.  I just know enough to talk to developers on freenode.02:37
* scrottie coughs02:37
@scrottieI've written IRC clients and the MUD proxy but I don't know the stupid commands =P02:37
beppustupid commands; who needs them anyway.02:37
@scrottieoh, by the way jabberwok, I merged the installer into the main repo02:38
@scrottiein case you find things to fix02:38
beppuSo how do I close http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/12434 ?02:39
@scrottieI don't think I have access to give you access02:40
@scrottieI updated it.02:40
beppuThe ticket history is weird.  Reading it backwards, it goes from Ticket created -> Resolved -> Pending  (so it's still in the pending state).02:44
beppuOh, now it's resolved.02:45
@scrottieyeah, I just did that02:45
@scrottiethat's a bug02:45
@scrottieI marked it resolved and then posted a comment02:45
beppua metabug02:45
@scrottiethe comment post must have posted state data with respect to that drop down02:45
@scrottiefrodwith rewrote the bug tracker asset but that's still waiting to be tested/fixed/merged in.02:46
@scrottieso in that parallel universe, that bug is likely non-existant.02:46
beppu...so an asset can be something as small as a template to something as big as an application?02:49
beppuHow does URL routing work?02:50
@scrottiefundamentally, an asset is just a .pm file that inherits WebGUI::Asset.  it *probably* has its own table and declares properties to be persistent in it.02:50
@scrottieSnippets are probably the smallest asset.  they're just a bit of text that can be inserted and edited by admins, not by users.02:50
@scrottieunless permissions are set to allow users to edit them.02:50
@scrottiere: routing, "content handlers" get first crack02:51
@scrottiethey handle things like func=edit and op=turnAdminOn02:51
beppuWhile clicking around like a normal person, the URL stayed at "http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues" but it also knew how to handle the permalink, "http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/12435".02:51
@scrottie(my brain always adds sexual conotations to that op)02:51
beppu(took me a second to get it)02:52
@scrottiethe last content handler to run (and they're listed in the config file) handles assets.  it looks in assetData for the url, creates an instance of the correct object (class with the right assetId, so data is read in from the database for that assetId), and then calls www_view() on it02:52
beppugotta go back to doing $work; will send more pull requests in the future02:59
@scrottiecool.  happy hackin'.02:59
beppuIs WebGUI ever going to be uploaded to CPAN?03:18
@scrottieyeah.  I prioritized that lower than some other things.03:19
@scrottiewe've (PB developers) kind of always wanted to get rid of Image::Magick as a dep first, since it almost never installs without problems (CPAN version and debian/ubuntu/whatever system package have to exactly match or it breaks... the people who make the ImageMagick library don't understand Unix shared library versioning)03:20
@scrottiehaarg mostly reworked it to use Imager instead.  that needs to be merged in and finished or else stuff that isn't finished pushed off to the side for now.03:21
beppuWhat do you plan on tackling first?  Are you just going to work through the bug list?03:24
@scrottieI might work on the installer first since I have a fresh batch of bug reports from jabberwok.03:24
@scrottiethat was also the thing I was working on last so it would be nice to finish it.03:25
@scrottiethat would also let more people more easily install the broken wG8 so they can do things to it =P03:25
beppuRegarding installation, I'm curious to explore what docker has to offer.03:25
@scrottiethat's been a common request.03:26
beppuIf webgui installation could be reduced to a reliable shell one-liner, that would be big.03:27
@scrottieso... mst has been working on deployment logic for a while now.  he has some pretty crazy logic.03:28
@scrottieI guess ShadowCat does a lot of deployment and provisioning.03:28
@scrottiethe previous year, he demoed logic that ssh'd into a remote machine and bootstrapped stuff up with perlbrew, cpanm, etc.  it also had an interesting feature where you could specify modules that didn't get installed remotely but got faked up.03:29
@scrottiewhen the code on the remote machine tried to use that module or call in to it, it proxied the request back to the machine initiating the request.03:29
@scrottiekind of an RPC thing.03:29
@scrottieI guess he has still been working on this, apparently trying to take on puppet.03:30
@scrottieI'm thinking of re-using the logic in my installer combined with this to make a site that does remote installations for you.03:30
@scrottieyou give it your hostname, login, and password in a web form, hit go, and it deploys wG onto your server for you.03:31
@scrottieobviously a lot of people won't want to give away their root password =P03:32
@scrottiebut I suspect that a lot would.03:32
beppuIf you implement this, it should be able to do non-root installs.03:32
@scrottieyeah, possible, but it makes the idea less attractive.03:33
@scrottieI know creating sub-roots with Debian packages (for example) is possible, and the trend is creating as many copies of everything as possible, but implementing that doesn't sound like fun03:33
@scrottieit's a lot easier to use the system package manager as root.03:34
@scrottieOSX support is a higher priority.03:34
@scrottiefor me.03:34
@scrottieobviously, other people can implement whatever they like.03:34
beppuhow many people are realistically going to deploy webgui on osx though?03:35
@scrottienot for production03:35
@scrottiebut lots03:35
@scrottiealmost all of the PB developers use OSX and developed on SOX03:35
@scrottiepeople when testing it always wanted to put it on their laptop first before putting it on a server03:35
@scrottiewG also makes it easy to stage stuff03:36
beppuI'm running it now on osx for development.  I don't recall having to do anything weird or difficult.03:36
@scrottieyou can export a 'wgpkg' file of a sub-tree of assets03:36
@scrottieeg, you can export everything under /home, and then have a file that you can upload in to the admin on your real server to upload all of the work you did configuring, adding, arranging assets (building pagelayouts out of other assets, customizing styles and templates, etc, etc)03:37
@scrottieyeah.  I just need to make the installer support at least one OSX package system.03:37
webguicommits[webgui] beppu opened pull request #12: add instructions for etc/log.conf (master...master) https://github.com/AlliumCepa/webgui/pull/1203:56
webguicommits[webgui] scrottie pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/AlliumCepa/webgui/compare/2a7a3ed1ddf0...2b35fe04e79104:24
webguicommitswebgui/master c9d8715 John BEPPU: add instructions for etc/log.conf04:24
webguicommitswebgui/master 2b35fe0 Scott Walters: Merge pull request #12 from beppu/master...04:24
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beppuscrottie: This may have been mentioned before, but the installer doesn't like perlbrew.09:18
beppuI had to revert to system perl before the Curses UI worked.09:20
beppuOnce I got to the UI, I picked the option that said it would ask the Fewest Questions.09:22
beppuIt seems to be stuck in an infinite loop trying to install Percona.  (this is on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS)09:23
beppuSome packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created or been moved out of Incoming.09:24
beppu^-- error from apt-get presumably09:24
bepputhe offending package seems to be libmysqlclient18-dev09:25
beppuI think the root of the problem is that you're hardcoding "squeeze".  The codename should probably be coming from `lsb_release --codename`09:44
beppunow the error is:10:05
beppuPackage libmysqlclient18-dev is not available, but is referred to by another package.10:05
beppuI wonder if libperconaserverclient18-dev would be a better package to install if we're using percona's repo.10:12
beppuI think it depends on what version of ubuntu or debian we're dealing with.  For libmysqlclient18-dev is probably right.  For ubuntu 14.04 (trusty), libperconaserverclient18-dev is probably right.10:18
beppuI think it's only trusty that doesn't have libmysqlclient18-dev; percona's repo seems to provide it for all previous versions of ubuntu and debian.10:28
beppuIt finally installed percona and friends, but now it's stuck in an infinite loop asking me to set the password for the root database user.10:32
beppuI was able to hit enter the first time to skip it, but then it asked me again and I can't seem to give it any input anymore.10:33
beppukilling the whiptail process wasn't enough, because it just looped back to ask me the same thing.10:33
beppuI killed the next process up which was something called "frontend" and it kicked me back to the webgui installer which also wanted me to set a mysql root password.10:35
beppuThe screen that was asking me before was one of those "friendly" dpkg screens.10:36
webguicommits[webgui] beppu pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/AlliumCepa/webgui/commit/5fd24dc2a67a15923f4a53719ce11593376dbe1410:40
webguicommitswebgui/master 5fd24dc John BEPPU: context sensitivity to debian/ubuntu version...10:40
beppuI misinterpreted the mysql password situation a bit; dpkg was asking me to set the root password; webgui_installer's ui was asking me to input an already set root password;11:03
beppuwebgui didn't let me input a blank password, so I opened up another term and actually set a password and then inputted it into webgui_installer.11:04
beppuI added some code to make apt-get even less interactive, but the inability to input a blank password stopped me from progressing.11:06
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beppu! Configure failed for Imager-File-PNG-0.91. See /home/beppu/.cpanm/work/1406707848.17949/build.log for details.11:11
beppuWarning (mostly harmless): No library found for -lpng11:12
beppu(not harmless afterall)11:12
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webguicommits[webgui] beppu pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/AlliumCepa/webgui/compare/5fd24dc2a67a...e7bec57c7bc111:22
webguicommitswebgui/master 2a5424e John BEPPU: install libpng-dev11:22
webguicommitswebgui/master e7bec57 John BEPPU: a comment about DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive11:22
beppuwhen the database already exists or the install path already exists, the script balks which was annoying when rerunning the install script.  I had to manually reset the state to debug the installer.11:23
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--- Day changed Thu Jul 31 2014
jabberwokscrottie: re: merge of installer: excellent. ... hm, howzit that my slashdot uid is lower than yours?03:12
@scrottieI didn't register for slashdot for a long time... near the end of its popularity I think.03:42
@scrottienever was much of a fan.  I think I only registered to hype Perl 6 Now.03:43
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beppumy slashdot id is 3242206:08
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jabberwok62554 here.  you were twice as fast as me, beppu15:30
jabberwokhm, i wonder how much i can ebay a 5-digit uid for?15:30
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beppujabberwok: I'm just old.  :P  slashdot was my crack back in the day, too.  I think it was more fun before they had user accounts.19:18
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beppuWhat's up elnino?22:38
elninonot much checking to see how things were going. I'm helping out with webgui.org and was wondering if anyone sees an immediate need that needs to be done on the site in preparation for wb8.22:50
beppuThere's not much at http://alliumcepa.github.io/ but you might want to link to it from the homepage so that people know this project is underway.23:02
beppuYou might also want to link to https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2083389021/create-perl-competition-to-the-php-content-managem .23:02
beppuIt could be as simple as adding the links to that blue box on the homepage with news items in it.23:04
elninogreat ideas! Thanks!23:25
@scrottieelnino, was I just talking to you by email?23:52
elninoyes. thats me.23:52
@scrottietrying to correlate names.  that's all.23:52
elninoyep. 23:52
@scrottiegood to see you on here again!23:52
@scrottiefixing broken links and updating stuff is a good start, but I wouldn't mind seeing links for developers to get involved in the project23:55
@scrottiewebgui.org/8 might be linked in or not from other things (I always just type it in)23:55
@scrottieand it doesn't have much on it other than bug reports23:56
@scrottieI created a "github project" from my work for the PB webgui repo and made a README.md with some garbage in it about that that could be tidied up.23:57
bepputhe banner on http://www.webgui.org/8 that says "join the discussion on irc" links to http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/irc which 404s23:57
@scrottieprobably bigger fish to fry but they don't immediately come to mind23:57
--- Log closed Fri Aug 01 00:00:42 2014

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