WebGUI irc logs from: 2011-03.log

--- Log opened Tue Mar 01 00:00:12 2011
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CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbb655e2 / (t/Form/TimeField.t t/Form/TimeField.pm): Rename the test to be a test. - http://bit.ly/eLpsAH	00:59
* perlDreamer takes the kids for piano lessons		00:59
+perlDreamer	bbl	00:59
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elnino	just popping my head in. Hi.	01:02
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CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r99f613b / t/Form/TimeField.t : Update test for CSRF token. - http://bit.ly/flSO26	05:24
CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7091ced / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Add the column headers back to the CSV file exported from a Thing. Fixes bug #12062. - http://bit.ly/eRnznJ	05:24
CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * re419e7f / (t/Form/TimeField.t t/Form/TimeField.pm): Rename the test to be a test. - http://bit.ly/fz3EwN	05:25
CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r747cb10 / t/Form/TimeField.t : Update test for CSRF token. - http://bit.ly/elkpv8	05:25
CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0e3e47d / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Add the column headers back to the CSV file exported from a Thing. Fixes bug #12062. - http://bit.ly/dUvwwg	05:25
CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r79ab978 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix the URL to the user after exporting a Thing in CSV format. The URL needs to contain the thingId to see non-default things. Fixes bug #12063 - http://bit.ly/ewLniq	06:34
CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r1088665 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix the URL to the user after exporting a Thing in CSV format. The URL needs to contain the thingId to see non-default things. Fixes bug #12063 - http://bit.ly/fVnvhZ	06:35
CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rde6cf58 / (3 files in 3 dirs):	06:44
CIA-98	webgui: Fix the Time field. Provide a getValueAsHtml method. Use it when displaying	06:44
CIA-98	webgui: the form, so that the JS works correctly in displaying values. Fixes bug #12054	06:44
CIA-98	webgui: and works swell in the Thingy. The Thingy is my favorite asset now. -	06:44
CIA-98	webgui: http://bit.ly/emj1YD	06:44
CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf12f282 / (3 files in 3 dirs):	06:46
CIA-98	webgui: Fix the Time field. Provide a getValueAsHtml method. Use it when displaying	06:46
CIA-98	webgui: the form, so that the JS works correctly in displaying values. Fixes bug #12054	06:46
CIA-98	webgui: and works swell in the Thingy. The Thingy is my favorite asset now. -	06:46
CIA-98	webgui: http://bit.ly/eg3kHf	06:46
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CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r07207b3 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.23 release. - http://bit.ly/fSgVqU	07:15
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CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r78d6161 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.24 development. - http://bit.ly/eynu5H	07:44
@preaction	if anyone sees khenn again, i've got a WRE that will work for him	07:44
@preaction	OS X was choking on the shared libs the WRE was providing	07:45
@preaction	so i had to statically link imagemagick and remove the shared libs. this might actually help the WRE remain unobtrusive, if we statically link everything that we can	07:45
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SDuensin	Morning.	17:01
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--- Day changed Wed Mar 02 2011
CIA-98	wrebuild: Doug Bell master * rbc7cb39 / build.sh :	00:11
CIA-98	wrebuild: disable shared ImageMagick prereqs to fix OSX 10.6	00:11
CIA-98	wrebuild: Problem is in dyld finding the wrong versions trying to load an	00:11
CIA-98	wrebuild: OS X native library (ImageIO) - http://bit.ly/gtXcYD	00:11
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KlausH	Hi,	00:52
KlausH	I have a problem/question with i18n in an older WebGUI version, it's 7.2.2	00:52
KlausH	(yes, I should upgrade...)	00:53
KlausH	In calendar the character encoding of the months is not correct. the site uses utf8, but the umlaut in March(M�rz) is encoded in Windows-1252 I think.	00:53
KlausH	Where can I find the internationalized names of the month in the calendar asset?	00:53
KlausH	in i18n/German/Datetime.pm I've changed the entry - but with no effect. Any other places where the wrong month can come from?	00:53
@preaction	it most likely comes from perl's DateTime module based on the i18n/German/Asset_Calendar.pm locale entry	00:54
@preaction	wait, 7.2.2 has the old calendar	00:54
@preaction	i dunno	00:55
+perlDreamer	it could be coming directly from the CPAN module used for dates	00:55
+perlDreamer	we used to do that, pull i18n data out of the module	00:55
+perlDreamer	it was...	00:56
+perlDreamer	Date::Manip?	00:56
* sbaur is amazed someone is using an older version than I am		00:57
+perlDreamer	on the forums, not too long ago, some asked a WebGUI 5 question	00:58
KlausH	in WebGUI 7.2.2 it's Asset_EventsCalendar.pm and that has no locale entry :-(	01:01
+perlDreamer	according to /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/EventsCalendar.pm	01:06
+perlDreamer	line 442	01:06
+perlDreamer	the monthName comes from $session->datetime	01:06
+perlDreamer	my ($year, $monthName) = split(' ', $dt->epochToHuman($month, '%y %c'));	01:06
+perlDreamer	and monthName comes from the DateTime module	01:07
KlausH	I'm just trying to change /data/wre/prereqs/perl/lib/site_perl/5.8.8/DateTime/Locale/de.pm and de_DE.pm	01:07
+perlDreamer	I'm guessing that DateTime is locale sensitive by default, or it's picking up a locale when an object is created	01:07
KlausH	Great! Thank you! Done. DateTime/Locale/de.p changed - problem solved.	01:13
KlausH	@sbaur: never change a running system :-)	01:23
+perlDreamer	tell that to someone with small children ;)	01:24
@preaction	i think AssetHelpers now need to be able to return a WebGUI::Fork ID from process()	01:30
@preaction	then we could poll that fork for progress, but we could also simply hide the whole thing and the user could continue on their merry way	01:31
@preaction	like you can minimize a copy window on your OS, you don't have to watch it as it completes	01:31
@preaction	and then i can get rid of copyInFork cutInFork and those InFork functions from the Asset, putting them in the Helper instead	01:32
@preaction	and also be more flexible about how i show progress of these tasks. right now our ProgressBar requires that I show it in an iframe or some other page it has control over	01:32
@preaction	ProgressBar is obsolete now that we have Fork	01:33
@preaction	well, and because Fork has its own way of determining % of the task that is done	01:34
+perlDreamer	so, if you want to do something in a script, it has to fork?	01:38
+perlDreamer	or is it something you request?	01:38
@preaction	it'd be something you request, in the case of certain asset helpers, they have to fork, so you would return the fork ID from process() and then the Admin Console would poll that fork for progress until it finished	01:39
@preaction	the idea here is that if you need a ProgressBar for a long-running task, you don't want it to die. but you can still kill a task like that, by closing the http connection forcefully. Fork gets around that, but not caring if http is involved at all	01:40
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure I was really clear, let me try again	01:40
+perlDreamer	if I want to write a test that calls cut, it has to talk to the Fork to make sure that Fork is finished before it continues with the test?	01:40
+perlDreamer	or, some utility script?	01:40
+perlDreamer	I can't think of any asset helper operation that would matter to a script, instead of a web plugin	01:41
@preaction	no, just AssetHelper::Cut	01:41
@preaction	Asset->cut() doesn't care	01:41
+perlDreamer	ah, cool	01:41
@preaction	and we already have WebGUI::Test->waitforallforks	01:41
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CIA-98	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf683195 / (lib/WebGUI/Admin.pm www/extras/admin/admin.js): start on Tree buttons to call Asset Helpers - http://bit.ly/f0Jlin	03:17
CIA-98	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r7a8c9bb / docs/migration.txt : reformat and rearrange migration docs - http://bit.ly/f5TtO7	03:17
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CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdcfce60 / (14 files in 5 dirs): Change class => className where func=add. - http://bit.ly/hHx7xh	04:45
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:36
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CIA-98	wgdev: Graham Knop master * rba7788c / lib/WGDev/Command/Export/Branch.pm : fix -t/--to option on export-branch - http://bit.ly/g8RFaT	21:46
@pbcj	So far I'm excellent at finding, um... "suppressed features"	21:50
@preaction	sshhhh, they're not supposed to know they're features. they might get big heads	21:50
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+perlDreamer	if CSS files are best served as static files out of /extras, how does the CSS itself call something from /extras, when it's programmable in the WebGUI config file?	22:29
@preaction	relative paths	22:30
+perlDreamer	brilliant	22:32
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+perlDreamer	preaction: I updated the templates best practice page with that info, and how to handle getting extras in javascript	22:50
+perlDreamer	should we start a CSS/JS best practices page	22:50
+perlDreamer	with that stuff, and new things as we come across them?	22:50
@preaction	a Best Practices page in general would be nice, yes	22:50
+perlDreamer	one best practices category coming right up!	22:57
@preaction	we might want to start a discussion on the dev list about making sure everything is in there too maybe	23:02
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xdanger	so whats with the mysql 5.5? DBD::mysql doesn't build, create.sql doesn't import (error in : 'TYPE=MyISAM CHARSET=utf8' at line 14)	00:34
xdanger	I haven't followed their progress	00:34
scrottie0	no idea, but http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/introduction-to-mysql-55.html suggests that MyISAM is essentially gone	00:42
+perlDreamer	I thought that said that InnoDB is the new default	00:45
+perlDreamer	not that MyISAM is gone	00:45
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scrottie0	the wording about getting rid of plugins is what I took as implying that	00:53
xdanger	why don't we just move to drizzle =)	00:54
+perlDreamer	you'd have to ask the architect about that one, xdanger	00:55
scrottie0	I would love to see a core that was database agnostic and didn't require a relational database even though most of the assets would.	00:55
xdanger	I imported wg8 db in drizzle and it worked =)	00:56
+perlDreamer	it'd be nice to do devel in SQLite	00:56
@preaction	i've heard good things about Percona	00:57
xdanger	goddammit! I installed 5.5.9 on my mac, and now 5.1.55 won't install becousa it thinks I have a newer version...	00:57
@preaction	i would also prefer to see something more agnostic so that it doesn't matter what the better db is	00:58
xdanger	postgresql \o/	00:59
+perlDreamer	xdanger, it only takes someone auditing every piece of code that we've written, and it can happen	01:00
@preaction	why couldn't we just run the tests using a sqlite dsn? and/or a pg dsn?	01:01
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't assume that the tests cover everything	01:01
+perlDreamer	especially relating to user profile fields	01:01
+perlDreamer	Thingy	01:01
+perlDreamer	Admin console functions	01:01
+perlDreamer	asset www methods	01:01
@preaction	nor would I, but it would be a start	01:01
+perlDreamer	Shop	01:01
xdanger	how much would you think that there is "mysqlism" in the sql used in wg?	01:02
@preaction	those are better covered by the 8 test suite too	01:02
+perlDreamer	true dat	01:02
@preaction	Thingy probably not. User Profile and Auth and such though	01:02
@preaction	xdanger: honestly? probably not that much. maybe some of the fancy joins we're doing might need changing	01:03
xdanger	O just remembered.. Did I do the rfe about returnUrl for thingy?	01:03
+perlDreamer	returnUrl?	01:03
xdanger	so you could build a sqlreport and have a edit link in it to thingy and after www_save it returned to the sqlreport	01:04
xdanger	I did it already for my client	01:04
+perlDreamer	why would you use a sqlreport for reporting instead of the Thingy view?	01:05
xdanger	maybe a join, or some custom stuff	01:05
+perlDreamer	makes sense	01:05
xdanger	and thingy view isn't that pretty	01:05
xdanger	and since much of the "other editing" is done in the site where the data is, I build it there	01:06
xdanger	ok, the secret to uninstall mysql 5.5 is: sudo rm /var/db/receipts/com.mysql.mysql.*	01:14
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CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re7e8cd4 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix the currentUrl used by the thingy for making URLs with action, like pagination and sorting, in the search screen. Fixes bug #12055. - http://bit.ly/etaZqR	02:42
CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r16b9839 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix the currentUrl used by the thingy for making URLs with action, like pagination and sorting, in the search screen. Fixes bug #12055. - http://bit.ly/h8ZVsK	02:42
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@preaction	2011/03/02 20:25:22 - ERROR - localhost.conf - WebGUI::handle[155] - WebGUI::Asset:1831 - SCALAR(0x2de34c0) is not of type SCALAR at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/namespace/clean.pm line 56, <DATA> line 1. <- anyone got this running 8?	04:26
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:32
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+perlDreamer	bartjol, today we try again	18:06
+perlDreamer	the noble goal has not been forgotten	18:06
+bartjol	ah, the svn of the i18n server?	18:07
+perlDreamer	yes	18:07
+bartjol	or rewriting WebGUI in php?	18:07
+perlDreamer	oh no, that's the ignoble goal	18:08
+perlDreamer	rewriting WebGUI in PHP is like filling your pillow full of cow poo	18:08
+perlDreamer	yes, it's all nice and soft but it's stinky	18:08
+bartjol	so if you have a terrible cold, it is acceptable	18:09
+perlDreamer	terrible cold and no wife/girlfriend	18:10
+bartjol	mmm, that would be an option for me atm	18:10
+perlDreamer	it would be better to get a wife/girlfriend	18:10
+perlDreamer	have you filled out the correct paperwork?	18:11
+bartjol	oh, it is just an application/order form?	18:16
+perlDreamer	In The Netherlands, I figured it would be next to the papework for new houses	18:17
+bartjol	Thought it had something to do with seduction and buying useless stuff for a woman	18:17
+bartjol	and dinners	18:18
+perlDreamer	you can buy useful stuff, too	18:19
+bartjol	aha, but where are the form downloads?	18:20
+perlDreamer	now see, if The Hague used WebGUI I could answer that question	18:21
* SDuensin is highly amused at this thread		18:22
xdanger	o joy... I just looked a little into converting to postgresql friendly sql... we would have to write about every query since we use camelCase... in pg userSession = usersession in the database, you have to use "userSession" in every query for the table and columns...	18:22
+bartjol	the hague? what has Sarah been telling you?	18:22
SDuensin	xdanger, no way to override that?	18:22
xdanger	none that I have found	18:23
+bartjol	well there is a perl module that automatically does that I believe	18:23
xdanger	http://sql-info.de/postgresql/postgres-gotchas.html#1_2	18:26
+bartjol	ah, I understand better now	18:28
+perlDreamer	pretty yucky, xdanger	18:29
+bartjol	mmm, like join("\" \"", split ($SQL), but that won't do either	18:29
+bartjol	and the split should split on spaces	18:30
+bartjol	procolix@host:/data/wre/etc$ grep -R select /data/WebGUI \|wc -l	18:31
+bartjol	14385	18:31
+bartjol	and that is only select	18:31
SDuensin	!!!!!!!!	18:31
SDuensin	14835?!	18:31
+perlDreamer	yeah, no coumns	18:31
+perlDreamer	no joins	18:31
+bartjol	procolix@host297:/data/wre/etc$ grep -R SELECT /data/WebGUI \|wc -l	18:31
+bartjol	1044	18:31
+bartjol	procolix@host297:/data/wre/etc$ grep -Ri update /data/WebGUI \|wc -l	18:31
+bartjol	44327	18:31
+perlDreamer	bartjol: grep -Ri select /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI	18:32
+bartjol	ok, only lib should be done, And I know that I can search for case insensitive strings, just forgot the first time	18:33
xdanger	but if you put select "assetId" it won't work in mysql =)	18:33
+bartjol	joy	18:33
xdanger	learned something new today :)	18:34
+bartjol	and for the perl itself, it won't be necessary either	18:34
+perlDreamer	would select `assetId` do the right thing in Postgres?	18:34
+perlDreamer	this works pretty good: http://www.americancorner.org.tw/en/resource.html �	18:34
+perlDreamer	uh	18:34
+perlDreamer	ack -i '\b(?:select\|update)\b' . \| wc -l	18:34
+bartjol	don't use posgresql for wegbui?	18:34
+bartjol	uuuh, I don't understand your link	18:36
+bartjol	are you making fun of my english?	18:36
xdanger	perlDreamer: doesn't work	18:36
+perlDreamer	the link was a bad paste	18:36
+perlDreamer	there's really no way to build a simple SQL query that works in both MySQL and PostgreSQL?	18:37
xdanger	if you use lowercase =)	18:37
xdanger	but then we'd have to change the case in the hash variables also	18:37
xdanger	and that's about everywhere =)	18:38
xdanger	There has to be someone who has solved this problem	18:38
* perlDreamer waits for frodwith to wake up		18:39
+bartjol	well, postgresql was supported in 4 and maybe 5 I belive	18:39
xdanger	yeah.. the solution is "use ORM" =)	18:40
xdanger	was wg5s tables in lowercase	18:40
+bartjol	dunno, maybe we still have an instance	18:41
+perlDreamer	xdanger, you can grab a copy of WebGUI 5 from git	18:41
+perlDreamer	thanks to Haarg's awesome translation effort	18:41
+bartjol	nope	18:42
+bartjol	camecase it is	18:42
+bartjol	in 5.5.4	18:42
@scrottie	hrm? most queries should work on MySQL and Postgres. there's some module on CPAN that attempts translations in other cases... where is that...	18:43
+perlDreamer	xdanger, maybe we're okay as long as there aren't columns and table names in both cases?	18:44
+perlDreamer	so that if we don't have Asset and asset, it's okay?	18:44
xdanger	perlDreamer: I was wondering about the cases where you dump a sql to a has and map that to something in perl	18:45
+bartjol	http://sqlfairy.sourceforge.net/	18:45
xdanger	s/has/hash/	18:45
+perlDreamer	If you can put it into PostgresQL and the test suite passes, there's a pretty good chance that it's okay	18:45
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@scrottie	more tests could be written too if coverage isn't felt to be adequate.	18:46
+perlDreamer	oh yeah	18:47
+perlDreamer	more tests!	18:47
+perlDreamer	I like the sound of that	18:47
@scrottie	anyway, I'm trying to figure out how to reduce the overhead of using a database as a backing store. DBIx would increase it. regardless of how nice that is for developers, it sucks for users.	18:47
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@scrottie	back to whipping old horses. sorry.	18:49
pbcj_	I didn't just quit	18:49
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@scrottie	mutt's pager likes to put +'s before continued lines. this damages URLs and interferes with pasting. anyone know how to turn that off?	18:55
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+perlDreamer	haven't used mutt in 3 years	18:57
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scrottie0	aha. quick rtfm: set markers=no	19:01
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xdanger	ou, this just keeps getting better... in some functions DBD::Pg automaticly quotes the table names... so it didn't matter that I converted the db to lowercase	19:59
--- Log closed Thu Mar 03 20:00:03 2011
--- Log opened Thu Mar 03 22:13:17 2011
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@preaction	I just stumbled across an asset i wrote that clocks in at over 4500 lines	22:17
@preaction	and we just got a contract to make it even BIGGER! yay!	22:18
+perlDreamer	Is it the Calendar?	22:24
+perlDreamer	it's not in the core	22:24
+perlDreamer	nothing in core is that big	22:24
@preaction	it's not in core, no	22:27
@preaction	to be fair, the app has an ORM and a messload of different formatting and printing options inside of it, but it could be broken up into about 5 different assets and an ORM-based set of classes	22:27
+perlDreamer	preaction, instead of having dozens of i18n objects for Forms, and applications and stuff, couldn't register a global one and have each sub-app register what namespaces and items it wants?	22:37
+perlDreamer	just 1 ajax request instead of lots?	22:37
@preaction	it'd still end up being a few ajax requests, but a global WebGUI.i18n object is a good idea	22:37
@preaction	well, wg.i18n or something, WebGUI.i18n being the object constructor	22:38
+perlDreamer	sure	22:38
+perlDreamer	I'll try to draw up an idea and post it to the RFE board for approval or smiting	22:38
@preaction	wg.asset is the current asset, wg.session holds session stuff, etc...	22:38
+perlDreamer	in 8	22:39
@preaction	no, just in my head	22:39
* perlDreamer sharpens his axe and considers a better look at all this hidden knowledge		22:39
+perlDreamer	I'm going to go get some lunch	22:39
xdanger	ou, this just keeps getting better... in some functions DBD::Pg automaticly quotes the table names... so it didn't matter that I converted the db to lowercase	22:59
xdanger	I give up =)	22:59
scrottie0	why did you convert the database to lowercase? that sounds like a bad idea.	23:00
xdanger	because if in psql you do select * from userSession it looks for a table called usersession, not userSession	23:43
xdanger	I just can't think why =)	23:44
xdanger	O found a solution... tweak the posgresql source in scan.l file... that's nice, but not very useful for deployment	23:54
--- Day changed Fri Mar 04 2011
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+perlDreamer	I'm about ready to try some things with the SVN server	00:13
+perlDreamer	I'll do them around 5:00pm CST	00:13
+perlDreamer	plainblack.com and webgui.org may be up and down a bit	00:14
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+perlDreamer	well, unless preaction and Haarg say no	00:14
@preaction	go ahead	00:14
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Baub	hello	00:17
+perlDreamer	howdy, Baub	00:17
Baub	for what it's worth i figured i'd come in here and confuse everyone	00:17
Baub	i'm trying to install webgui on gentoo	00:18
CIA-98	webgui: root master * rd72d369 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Removed the ugly time setting pop-up and replaced it with clean JS. Fixes bug #12061 - http://bit.ly/e0Ty6z	00:18
CIA-98	webgui: Chris Hanson master * rd1531da / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm):	00:18
CIA-98	webgui: Merge branch 'master' of git://github.com/plainblack/webgui	00:18
CIA-98	webgui: Conflicts:	00:18
CIA-98	webgui: docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt - http://bit.ly/hzKFoH	00:18
xdanger	yeah, every oss system that has the ability to use postgres and mysql as db, that I quickly looked at uses lowercase table & column names	00:19
xdanger	Baub: good luck with that ;)	00:20
Baub	i get this:	00:20
Baub	emerge : there are no ebuilds to satisfy ">=dev-perl/IO-Zlib-1.01"	00:20
xdanger	I have no knowledge of gentoo, but you might try to install directly from cpan	00:21
xdanger	the IO::Zlib I mean, not the whole webgui	00:22
@preaction	er... there's an emerge WebGUI?	00:22
Baub	yea you have to use layman to find it	00:23
@preaction	what version do they have? you might be far better off with a source install or a WRE	00:24
Baub	7.4.15	00:24
@preaction	yeah, that's a couple years old	00:25
Baub	oic, hrmm...	00:26
* Baub looks, 'oh you're on 7.9 now		00:27
@preaction	nearing 8.0 yeah	00:27
Baub	ok, i do have another 'soon to be turned into a' box. It's pretty much going to only do webgui, and a browser. Any suggestions on distro to use?	00:30
Baub	^linux box	00:31
+perlDreamer	ubuntu	00:31
+perlDreamer	centos	00:31
@pbcj	made my first commit.. fingers crossed	00:31
xdanger	which is going to be awesome... 8.0 I mean	00:31
@preaction	plain black uses the latest centos mostly	00:31
xdanger	debian =)	00:31
xdanger	ok, if it's a desktop then ubuntu	00:32
xdanger	you can just apt-get install webgui =)	00:32
Baub	well that's 2 votes for ubuntu	00:35
Baub	think i'll just do that, and keep my gentoo box for a toy	00:35
xdanger	use what you know, install the prebuild wre (webgui running enviroment) it includes the software needed to run webgui	00:37
Baub	tnx :)	00:38
xdanger	you might need to update the perl modules, but the testEnviroment.pl does that for you	00:39
+perlDreamer	well, so much for that idea...	00:59
+perlDreamer	time to start reading the SVN book on how to setup apache with svn	01:05
@scrottie	slackware.	02:09
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Baub	ubuntu and mint appear to have version 7.7.30 while debian has 7.9.21	02:44
@scrottie	I give the WRE good odds of running WebGUI on your Gentoo box.	02:54
CIA-98	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r675dfec / lib/WebGUI/Form/TimeField.pm : Add i18n requirements for the TimeField, so it works if used without other plugins requiring them. - http://bit.ly/fH50Ap	02:56
@preaction	if i want to update an asset via a JSON service, should I create a tag, create a revision, and do autocommit if that's all enabled?	03:01
@preaction	or should I just update() unless the developer asks for a revision and/or a tag?	03:02
+perlDreamer	is this in 7 or 8?	03:07
+perlDreamer	in 7, I think it should work exactly like www_editSave	03:07
+perlDreamer	in 8, well, you'd know that better than I do	03:07
@preaction	it's in 8, but still	03:09
@scrottie	update unless developer asks for a revision and/or tag.	03:19
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@preaction	sounds good	03:21
@preaction	and i don't even have to do that being able to ask for revision/tag yet, yay!	03:22
CIA-98	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r399aa53 / (lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm lib/WebGUI/Fork/ProgressTree.pm): update docs on Fork - http://bit.ly/fba9AJ	03:29
CIA-98	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rb27bc19 / (14 files in 4 dirs): Tree view buttons now work. Changed progress bar helpers to use fork. Added forkId option to AssetHelpers. Added updateAsset service to Admin. - http://bit.ly/hHtLuM	03:29
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preaction	Here's a question nobody is awake enough to answer: If we build a JS API around Asset, does that make one more or less inclined to use Asset as the ORM?	09:32
preaction	though we could just embrace an orm and build the JS api around that...	09:32
@scrottie	good question.	10:05
@scrottie	storing data in a tree view, filtering through children, and moving things around is a powerful idiom. being able to kick out new assets easily could make this more powerful. there could be a meta-asset that stores its definition in one table and creates logical subclasses of itself on the fly based on definitions in there.	10:10
@scrottie	then people could use assets as arbitrary sorts of records with built in CRUD.	10:11
@scrottie	I'm trying to figure out how to bridge the gap to collateral data.	10:11
@scrottie	some of the Asset methods let you join against other tables but in a limited fashion.	10:12
@scrottie	moving to a one id in place of (assetId, revisionDate) would help matters there immensely.	10:12
@scrottie	asset being its own ORM leaves the door open for nosql databases, lazy writes back to the database, handlersocket, and other cool stuff. banging the database 300 times in a hit is a direction we need to reverse from, not try really hard not to creep further down. that's not adequate.	10:15
@scrottie	my goal is to get a Coro friendly forks.pm going, get WebGUI8 running on the Corona Plack server, and institute a cross-process global object cache with lazy database writes.	10:17
@scrottie	built on top of the threads API plus multiple concurrent requests per process.	10:18
@scrottie	needless to say, DBIx::Class gets in the way of this plan.	10:19
@scrottie	easier than hacking up forks would be doing local RPC to keep each object in memory once.	10:20
@scrottie	100 processes each with the same 1/1000th of the database doesn't do much to accomplish the ideal of having the database in RAM.	10:20
@scrottie	er, 1/1000th of the database cached	10:20
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SDuensin	FrIdAy!	16:31
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+perlDreamer	bartjol: not good svn news	17:49
+perlDreamer	newest SVN requires a newer version of SQLite than is available on the servers	17:49
+perlDreamer	and I can't use the existing SVN binaries for CentOS	17:49
xdanger	what are you using the svn for?	18:01
+perlDreamer	the translations are still in svn	18:01
+perlDreamer	I'm thinking that we should move it to git and call it good	18:02
xdanger	=)	18:02
Haarg	i've tried to update the translation server to git a couple times but i end up hating the code too much to keep using it	18:02
+perlDreamer	right now, for sake of expediency, I'm thinking of just doing a direct import and update	18:03
+perlDreamer	suck the whole translation thing into git as 1 repo	18:03
+perlDreamer	and then instead of using svn command lines, use git	18:03
+perlDreamer	once it's in git, then we can make it awesome sometime later	18:03
+perlDreamer	but it's important to get that thing back up and running	18:03
xdanger	but git is awesome ;)	18:03
+perlDreamer	from what I can tell, perl interfaces to git are not awesome	18:04
xdanger	noticed that too	18:04
xdanger	I'm starting in a 12year old project next monday that still host in cvs and runs on cgi-bin	18:05
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xdanger	I'm afraid =) I want to move them to git, plack, tempates, moose, etc...	18:06
+perlDreamer	webgui? :)	18:06
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xdanger	we'll see =)	18:09
xdanger	it's a system for administrating a school, includes forums, calendars, etc. A big intranet kinda	18:11
+perlDreamer	sounds exactly like WebGUI	18:11
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xdanger	I know, but I don't yet know what other functionality there is in it... And they only have limited hour for me to work on it	18:14
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+bartjol	oh	18:20
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Baub	ok after debian failed, i got mint installed	18:31
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Baub	and installing webgui from the software manager	18:34
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knoppix_	not familiar with "mint". at least I'm not sure I am. MiNT was a Unix-like system for Atari ST computers.	19:01
knoppix_	xchat, you suck.	19:01
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xdanger	it's a ubuntu fork	19:01
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Baub	ok help me out	19:14
Baub	it did webgui install from the software manager	19:14
Baub	now i'm sure there's some startup scripts and other setup stuff i should be running	19:15
Baub	where might i find out what i am supposed to be doing?	19:15
xdanger	if it's based on the debian/ubuntu package... you have /etc/init.d/webgui and apache2, but before that you have to add a site	19:16
xdanger	read /usr/share/doc/webgui/README.Debian.gz	19:20
xdanger	or something like that	19:21
xdanger	hehe, I'm on a bus, building wre... That eats the battery quick =)	19:26
Baub	tnx xdanger, i'll try that as soon as it starts responding again	19:27
@frodwith	sort of annoying that testEnvironment wants you to be root	19:35
@frodwith	in order to install any modules	19:35
+perlDreamer	frodwith, I use --simpleReport and install stuff by hand with cpan	19:36
@frodwith	thanks perlDreamer, didn't know about simpleReport	19:36
@frodwith	perl testEnvironment.pl \| grep 'Not installed' \| sed 's/Checking for module //' \| awk '{ print $1 }' \| sed 's/:$//' \| xargs cpanm	19:36
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+perlDreamer	perlTestenvironment.pl \| perl -lane '$F[3] =~ tr/://d; print $F[3];' \| xargs cpanm ?	19:38
+perlDreamer	whups	19:38
@frodwith	my one-liner fu is weak	19:39
+perlDreamer	perlTestenvironment.pl \| perl -lane 'if (/Not installed/){$F[3] =~ tr/://d; print $F[3];}' \| xargs cpanm ?	19:39
@frodwith	i don't know what the pretty flags do	19:39
+perlDreamer	-e is eval this stuff	19:39
@frodwith	always have to look it up	19:39
+perlDreamer	ah	19:39
@frodwith	e I know :)	19:40
+perlDreamer	I used to do lots of 1-liners for hacking netlists and harnesses	19:40
@frodwith	what's l?	19:40
+perlDreamer	-l means "handle Line endings"	19:40
+perlDreamer	automatically strips $/ and puts it back on anything that's printed	19:40
@frodwith	so like... auto-chomp?	19:40
+perlDreamer	yeah, with auto-append for printing	19:40
@frodwith	ah! nice :)	19:41
+perlDreamer	I memorize phrases, if that helps	19:41
+perlDreamer	-lne is a filter	19:41
+perlDreamer	-lpe is a modifying filter	19:41
+perlDreamer	-lane is like cut	19:41
@frodwith	cut?	19:41
+perlDreamer	that awk line does the same thing as the unix command cut	19:41
+perlDreamer	cut cuts arbitrarily delimited columns	19:42
@frodwith	squints at it	19:43
+perlDreamer	yeah, not my best writing there	19:44
+perlDreamer	"cut" will cut arbitrarily delimited columns	19:44
+perlDreamer	man cut	19:44
+perlDreamer	info cut	19:44
+perlDreamer	I never remember the syntax for cut, so I use perl instead	19:45
@frodwith	yeah i'm reading the man page	19:45
@frodwith	that's what I'm squinting at	19:45
+perlDreamer	ah	19:45
+perlDreamer	just came across a nasty HTML export bug	19:45
@frodwith	do share	19:46
+perlDreamer	is you call macros inside of snippets which are asset proxied into a style, and you export	19:46
+perlDreamer	it looks like $session->asset is not set correctly	19:46
+perlDreamer	or some kind of odd caching is happening	19:46
+perlDreamer	'nothing Thingy bug, too	19:47
+perlDreamer	Thingy uses www_export for exporting CSV	19:47
@frodwith	$session->asset is set right at the beginning of the export process iirc	19:47
+perlDreamer	I know, that's what's odd about it	19:47
+perlDreamer	and it works inconsistently	19:47
+perlDreamer	not every page is wrong	19:48
+perlDreamer	I'll work up a package that I can attach to a bug report to make it easy to duplicate	19:50
@frodwith	cut seems to suck at complicated field delimiters	19:50
@frodwith	at least on my system	19:50
@frodwith	anything other than single characters is a no	19:51
+perlDreamer	that's why I use perl :)	19:51
@frodwith	if I can remember these handy flags	19:59
@frodwith	my big old sed/awk/grep mishmashes from hell will get a lot tidier	19:59
+perlDreamer	dang it!	20:03
+perlDreamer	now I can't duplicate the problem any longer	20:03
+perlDreamer	so maybe I was mistaken in the first place	20:03
+perlDreamer	I think it's also past time for cleaning up the export content of the RSS AssetAspect	20:06
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CIA-20	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r73a95e9 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix the accidental overriding of www_export in the Thing. Fixes bug #12066. - http://bit.ly/fpuOTg	20:46
CIA-20	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r32d8aeb / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix the accidental overriding of www_export in the Thing. Fixes bug #12066. - http://bit.ly/fdCBpt	20:46
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@pbcj	why doesn't webgui do housework? it does everything else! new feature for wg8....	20:01
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Getty	its like a good wife, if you want the housework done, she gets a headache	21:49
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scrottie0	9:07 Monday morning, the cell phone starts ringing.	18:11
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scrottie0	we need to hire a PC desktop support specialist and project managers. lots and lots of project managers.	18:28
+perlDreamer	project managers cost money	18:31
scrottie0	sir perlDreamer, MotO =)	18:32
* scrottie0 resists remarks about how much or little he costs =)		18:32
+perlDreamer	scrottie0 is worth every penny he's paid	18:33
scrottie0	shucks	18:33
+perlDreamer	and he rocks the 'hawk	18:33
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8a527f8 / lib/WebGUI/Form/TimeField.pm : Fix sytax errors in the new TimeField code. - http://bit.ly/g2l74A	18:36
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2c0334d / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Thingy asset collateral import does not need to check for existance of the asset. If the asset doesn't exist, package import will create it or it will die. Fixes bug #12060. - http://bit.ly/i1VNBz	18:36
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r25d6f4a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Thingy asset collateral import does not need to check for existance of the asset. If the asset doesn't exist, package import will create it or it will die. Fixes bug #12060. - http://bit.ly/elRPt2	18:36
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+perlDreamer	I'm an idiot	18:39
scrottie0	making mistakes is a necessary but not sufficient condition of being an idiot.	18:40
+perlDreamer	what else must I do to be an idiot, scrottie0?	18:49
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rab20d1d / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm):	18:50
CIA-71	webgui: Revert "Thingy asset collateral import does not need to check for existance of the asset. If the asset doesn't exist, package import will create it or it will die. Fixes bug #12060."	18:50
CIA-71	webgui: This reverts commit 25d6f4a53735584a25a5fe7916f2e70736a59ce6. - http://bit.ly/eSSxw2	18:50
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r78d27ad / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm):	18:51
CIA-71	webgui: Revert "Thingy asset collateral import does not need to check for existance of the asset. If the asset doesn't exist, package import will create it or it will die. Fixes bug #12060."	18:51
CIA-71	webgui: This reverts commit 2c0334d709faf51ab65d29add6c554ae333be459. - http://bit.ly/igWXPt	18:51
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+bartjol	mmm, how do I get an optional limit in a buildArray statement, something like $db->buildArray($sql,[$param1,{limit=>$limit}) (allthough this fails off course	19:13
+perlDreamer	stick it into the SQL	19:13
@scrottie	$db->buildArray( $sql . ' LIMIT 100' ) ...	19:13
+perlDreamer	$sql .= "limit 50"	19:13
+perlDreamer	yes, exactly	19:14
+bartjol	aaah	19:14
+perlDreamer	although, if you combine that with pagination it will wreak havoc	19:14
+perlDreamer	so, if you're really building a paginator, use WebGUI::Paginator	19:14
* perlDreamer goes to the gym		19:18
CIA-71	webgui: Chris Hanson webgui-7.9 * r96f5cdf / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Form/TimeField.pm): Corrected element selection technique for TimeField in 7.9. Fixes bug #12061 - http://bit.ly/fXMNwi	19:20
Haarg	why do i find more security flaws every time i look for them? :(	19:28
scrottie0	it's a function of the relative amount of time looking for (or even being watchful of) security flaws versus wearing other hats. it's an under-worn hat.	19:31
@preaction	i think then the solution is to stop looking for security flaws, so that they don't exist	19:34
@preaction	after all, if i don't see it, it isn't there, right?	19:34
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elnino	hi everyone is tavis on vacation?	20:20
+perlDreamer	tavis was on vacation last week	20:21
elnino	ah. I thought he was ignoring me. good to know. thanks.	20:21
+perlDreamer	but if you have business questions, you shouldn't email him personally, you should use one of the email aliases	20:22
+perlDreamer	so that whoever is covering for him can help	20:22
elnino	that would be my mistake then.	20:22
@preaction	https://github.com/preaction/modern-webgui/blob/master/lib/WebGUIx/Model.pm <- should this go into WebGUI 7.10 as a replacement for WebGUI::CRUD (which is deprecated in 8)?	20:32
+perlDreamer	no	20:33
@preaction	why not	20:33
+perlDreamer	because 7.10 should be as stable as we can make it	20:33
+perlDreamer	unstable, new, untried things should go into 8	20:33
@preaction	but there are contracts to fill	20:33
+perlDreamer	huh?	20:33
@preaction	there is a contract that needs an ORM and the associated app to manage the ORM classes	20:33
+perlDreamer	is part of the contract to rewrite all apps in WebGUI that use CRUD?	20:34
+perlDreamer	if so, then I have few valid complaints against doing it in 7.10	20:34
@preaction	uh, no apps in WebGUI use CRUD	20:34
@preaction	but we clearly cannot ourselves use CRUD, because as i said it's deprecated in 8	20:35
+perlDreamer	and that observation is why it shouldn't go into 7.10	20:35
+perlDreamer	because I can name 2 off the top of my head in the core	20:35
+perlDreamer	FilePump, and Survey	20:35
@preaction	so because we cannot upgrade everything that uses it, we should not create a replacement?	20:36
+perlDreamer	not in 7.10	20:36
@preaction	the alternative to putting that class into 7.10 is building the client something new from scratch	20:36
@preaction	which then goes into 7.10	20:37
+perlDreamer	I have no opposition to using something old vs new, I have an opposition to putting in something brand spanking new and large	20:37
+perlDreamer	why 7.10 vs 8?	20:37
@preaction	or, i suppose we could keep it out of a core webgui until 8	20:37
@preaction	also, it's not very big, as you see. it'd just be that class and the two moose traits it exports	20:38
@preaction	it'd use existing WebGUI::Form::Control and such	20:38
+perlDreamer	not only size-wise, but concept wise	20:38
+bartjol	well, that is one more macro in the webgui world	20:39
@preaction	sure, it is adding DBIC to WebGUI	20:39
@preaction	another problem: it does require that you write your models to be WebGUI::Model, not DBIx::Class	20:42
@preaction	so it wouldn't be a simple "pick up and go" thing	20:42
+perlDreamer	is it a wrapped module, or subclassed?	20:43
@preaction	it's a subclass of DBIC	20:43
+perlDreamer	sub-classing happens all the time, especially in 8	20:43
@preaction	but it uses moose for the attribute stuff	20:43
+perlDreamer	in 8, that sounds great! Assets already use Moose	20:44
@preaction	so you can't take a simple DBIC model, add the form information to it, and present it to the user. you have to use the WebGUI::Model way: moose attributes	20:44
@preaction	and yes, that might be good for the deeper parts of WebGUI, but this ORM app should be "We already have business logic and data in our DBIC models, now we want to add a website to manage that stuff"	20:45
@preaction	in short, i think forcing users into a WebGUI-specific ORM (either CRUD or WebGUI::Model) is not a good idea for this app	20:46
@preaction	yay, crisis averted	20:46
+bartjol	hooray!	20:50
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elnino	did I hear at one point that the collaboration asset is going aaway?	22:49
@preaction	the idea of the collaboration asset is going away: the idea that one application can fulfill every need	23:06
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elnino	preaction - I think it's a great asset, but to make it a choice for customer is overwhelming. I like the idea of packaging it in various forms and giving those as options instead. faq, link list, forum, etc.	00:35
@preaction	that's already possible, but there's a problem: it doesn't do all the Blog features of WordPress, or all the Forum features of PHPBB, or all the...	00:44
@preaction	and in trying to be more than one thing, it presents a bewildering number of options to the end-user, many of which do not apply to their current situation	00:44
elnino	yep have are you changing how that works in 8?	00:46
@preaction	no, i don't have the time right now	00:47
elnino	I didn't mean YOU. =)	00:47
@preaction	8.0 is more about providing the APIs and toolset needed to build the next generation of webgui apps	00:47
@preaction	right now, it's mostly me	00:47
elnino	ah.	00:47
elnino	oh.	00:47
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@preaction	so i get flexibility, don't have to defend myself or follow someone else's orders, but i'm limited to what i can myself personally produce	00:48
@preaction	in spite of that, we're getting close	00:48
elnino	Thats good! Keep up the good work. I finally signed up for hosting with you! So I get to play again!	00:50
@preaction	ooh fun	00:52
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CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * refcc4fe / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm): www_editSave needs permission checks to prevent extra assets from being added by unprivileged users. Partial fix for #12068. - http://bit.ly/eD0Kuz	05:07
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rcd483f8 / docs/gotcha.txt : Put the notice about the changed TimeField form in a note for the correct version. - http://bit.ly/dZa9Bm	05:07
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r23b403d / t/Asset/Wobject/Thingy/duplicate.t : Add a test to make sure that duplicating a Thingy does not leak rows or things. - http://bit.ly/hrfZLV	05:07
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r41ebf01 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): There's no need to check again if the asset exists when importing asset collateral data. Fixes bug #12060. - http://bit.ly/g1qNww	05:08
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra78e0ea / t/Form/TimeField.t : Fix the test to track changes in the TimeField form. - http://bit.ly/gEwSXA	05:08
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r3887700 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm): www_editSave needs permission checks to prevent extra assets from being added by unprivileged users. Partial fix for #12068. - http://bit.ly/gPusd7	05:11
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r162c9ba / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): There's no need to check again if the asset exists when importing asset collateral data. Fixes bug #12060. - http://bit.ly/fUz56u	05:11
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8078792 / t/Form/TimeField.t : Fix the test to track changes in the TimeField form. - http://bit.ly/eVdHXv	05:11
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra76b5a5 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.10.11 release - http://bit.ly/hsdynr	06:40
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6ac8c49 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.12 development. - http://bit.ly/eI7pKS	06:56
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8a8a9c8 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Better handling for collateral assets in the Product sku. Fixes bug #12072. - http://bit.ly/gFqWaP	07:21
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdae7a14 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Better handling for collateral assets in the Product sku. Fixes bug #12072. - http://bit.ly/fRiase	07:21
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xdanger	preaction: did you do some work on presenting a url for every thing that was in a thingy?	12:42
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elnino	Hello. I'm looking for an asset that pagenates.. is that only the CS asset at this time?	16:48
+bartjol	elnino: no, the search also paginates	16:52
+bartjol	and maybe more	16:52
elnino	I'm looking for something that can paginate my content. customer has a lot of info. and as much as I don't like long pages, I really don't like paginated articles either. So I really don't know how to proceed on this. suggestions?	16:53
elnino	I did see the prev/next macro in the bazzar, maybe I should do that.	16:54
+bartjol	mmm, well best is to look in the template help or the code, which template uses paginating	16:55
+bartjol	the prev next might also work	16:55
+bartjol	that looks for the next lineage I believe	16:55
+bartjol	used that macro once for a wuc presentation	16:56
+bartjol	but it has some border features that might not be what you want	16:56
+bartjol	border as in the last and first pages	16:57
elnino	border? I'll have to look at it again. It's been awile. Thanks.	16:58
elnino	I'll be away for a while now.	16:59
ckotil	http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/wallaby/ export flash to html5	17:02
+bartjol	ckotil: your link looks to be broken	17:31
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ckotil	works for me	18:02
+bartjol	strange, now it does	18:02
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@preaction	xdanger: no, but 7.9 brought the asset dispatch() sub, which would allow you to do it if you override dispatch() inside Thingy	18:57
xdanger	so would it have a url like /thingy/thing1 ? or can it be anything? how does it integrate to assets url dispatch?	18:58
@preaction	it has to have the asset's URL at the beginning, so /thingy/<something>, but <something> can be anything at all, the thing ID, some field from the thing, etc...	18:59
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@preaction	should we (eventually) replace our custom workflow system with this? http://search.cpan.org/~jonasbn/Workflow/	19:52
@preaction	i had wanted to when i first saw this, but now it looks too complicated to me	19:52
scrottie0	no, we should eventually replace it with nothingmutch's serializable continuations.	19:59
scrottie0	nothingmuch's.	20:00
scrottie0	lack of continuations does ugly things to code, sort of lack of objects or lack of closures do.	20:02
scrottie0	current designs for workflow systems have state machines inside of state machines, all just to get execution back to where it needs to resume.	20:02
scrottie0	that problem vanishes utterly, completely and instantly when you apply continuations to it.	20:02
scrottie0	continuations let code (or coderefs) pause at a point, returning control to their caller, but resume execution at the next statement when next called.	20:03
scrottie0	serializable ones do the same thing but you can serialize the whole coderef to a string and store it to disc... just as Storable will serialize ordinary continuations.	20:04
scrottie0	er, ordinary coderefs.	20:04
scrottie0	and the lexical environment stays in tact, of course.	20:05
@preaction	looks and sounds interesting	20:06
@preaction	my other idea (well, paul's idea) was a message queue, which afaik is your state machine that runs another state machine	20:07
@preaction	though this continuations thing would only apply to certain tasks really	20:07
@preaction	no matter what, we're getting rid of using http as a channel for the workflow task stuff	20:07
scrottie0	workflows would have to do some sort of cooperative multitasking in that they would have to yield (litterally, call yield()) now and then	20:10
@preaction	right now they already do that when they complete a single task	20:10
@preaction	though i suppose with continuations, they could do that more often and without requring any custom state-saving routines	20:11
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@preaction	though really isn't that just moving the state-saving somewhere else? though i do like more the idea of taking the entire lexical scope and saving that instead of having to explicitly save stuff	20:12
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scrottie0	yup, it is moving it somewhere else.	20:15
scrottie0	you can write OO in a non-OO language, but it's ugly. same idea, from my point of view.	20:15
@preaction	but it would be nice to just say "yield()" and have it return to the same place with the same data	20:15
@preaction	true	20:15
@preaction	case-in-point: what many people use C structs for	20:16
scrottie0	right.	20:16
@preaction	and the continuation stuff looks like it could be added rather simply	20:17
scrottie0	checking up on nothingmuch's progress, it looks like he's pretty well stalled out since last I looked.	20:20
scrottie0	too bad. there was a nice flurry of activity at one point on p5p where the porters decided to move the APIs he needed to core.	20:20
scrottie0	Marc Lehmann's Coro is still the well maintained beast that it always was.	20:21
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CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r79aa44c / sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl : Add a switch to disable the progress bar for capturing the output of findBrokenAssets. - http://bit.ly/i92PHq	21:32
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rd6d55f5 / sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl : Add a switch to disable the progress bar for capturing the output of findBrokenAssets. - http://bit.ly/hfe2aj	21:32
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elnino	hi quick question.	22:45
elnino	when I make a thingy. is there a GUID that i can reference when doing a one to many relationship?	22:45
elnino	or do I have to make my own?	22:45
elnino	oh. I see my thingy is listed in the addfield popup box.	22:47
elnino	cool	22:47
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elnino	opps. how do I do a many to many relationship?	22:58
elnino	Is there a way to make the combination of the two IDs unique?	22:59
+perlDreamer	elnino, re your earlier question about pagination, the Article asset will automatically paginate content	23:05
+perlDreamer	you can read about how to do it in the wiki on webgui.org	23:05
elnino	it will?	23:05
+perlDreamer	yup	23:05
elnino	cool	23:05
+perlDreamer	I have no idea about Thingy, but it may not do 1 to many	23:05
elnino	1 to many it does.	23:06
+perlDreamer	beyond linking to other Things in the same Thingy	23:06
+perlDreamer	yeah, okay	23:06
elnino	it may not enforce any primary keys per se	23:06
elnino	at least I dont' see that option.	23:06
elnino	now that I have your attention....	23:06
elnino	I need o make reports now from my new thingy's data.	23:06
+perlDreamer	you're stuck with either the search screen, or using SQL Report	23:07
elnino	is there a way to figure out the table structure and fieldnames somewhere?	23:07
elnino	right, sql reprt is what I wanted to use	23:07
+perlDreamer	if you know the GUID for a thing, the table is uses is Thingy_GUID	23:07
elnino	ok.	23:09
elnino	perlDreamer.. oh dear. I wrote that article wiki page. I should have known!!	23:18
+perlDreamer	I'd forgotten that :)	23:18
+perlDreamer	but WebGUI is big	23:18
elnino	it sure is.	23:19
@preaction	WebGUI's DBI cache suffers from miss storms :( it's fun to watch a site blow up under it	23:45
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@preaction	perlDreamer: if you're interested, you can watch. i can't fix it just yet. it's on the alumni database server: 20 requests trying to REPLACE INTO `cache` for the same cache key, and every request for the same page blocked up behind them	23:50
@preaction	they only take a second or so, but 20 of them causes 20 seconds of wait...	23:52
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure I follow you, preaction	23:54
+perlDreamer	but I've got my head deeply into 3 projects at the same time	23:55
+perlDreamer	how did you track that down?	23:55
--- Day changed Wed Mar 09 2011
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elnino	in thingy, the table and fields have a quid which sometimes contains a - which is illegal apparantly in sql field names.	00:48
elnino	so i'm surroundin them iwth tick marks, but I can't seem to make it work still.	00:48
elnino	what's wrong with this??? http://pastebin.com/FvugTSy5	00:49
elnino	minus the comma, still doesn't work.	00:54
@preaction	elnino: turn on the debug mode thing for the SQLReport, it should report an error	00:56
elnino	I do.	00:56
elnino	hold on. i'm makeing a new pastebin	00:56
elnino	http://pastebin.com/ukUjNuum	00:58
elnino	I got rid of aliases, because it just wouldn't work.	00:58
elnino	and used thingDataId in the innerjoin because those were WG's fields.	00:58
elnino	in the error, it's dropping tick marks.	00:59
elnino	it works fine (wiout error) if I remove the fields and replace with a *	01:00
elnino	Of course I dont' get data that way, because I used thingDataId =)	01:02
elnino	ok. I'm getting somewhere now... enver mind.	01:05
+perlDreamer	we need a better solution for sslEnabled	01:13
+perlDreamer	if the user manages to set encryptLogin=1 in the settings	01:14
+perlDreamer	and then sets sslEnabled=0 in the config file	01:14
+perlDreamer	then the form is not shown in Settings any longer	01:14
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scrottie0	ugh.	02:45
scrottie0	I know a good sysadmin who is looking for work, by the way.	02:45
scrottie0	or maybe I need to get bigbrother running on one of these babies on top of an overhead projector: http://cgi.ebay.com/Infocus-480GS-PC-Viewer-LCD-PROJECTION-PANEL-w-cables-/230593963308?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b078a52c	02:46
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@preaction	so it's like a document projector, only for an LCD?	03:06
@preaction	i've wanted myself to just break off and do a bunch of sysadmin work to unify and expand our capability for auditing and troubleshooting, but it's all development right now	03:08
scrottie0	before you could go out and buy a data projector, this is what a data projector was.	03:31
scrottie0	you threw it on top of an overhead projector and got 640x480 greyscale, or, if you were lucky, color video projected onto a screen.	03:31
@preaction	yeah, like one of those opaque document projectors, only with an LCD	03:33
@preaction	and for $10, why not	03:33
scrottie0	I have so much crazy stuff in my closet already...	03:36
scrottie0	but it's still tempting.	03:36
scrottie0	I'm having flashbacks to a client I had that wanted crazy amounts of code work done and I wound up repeatedly neglecting sysadmin tasks. I didn't set up RAID. spamassassan proved to open a port that was DoSable and in the process of being DoS'd, the HD failed. backups weren't recent enough. PGP stopped encrypting orders (this was a long time ago) because its license had expired.	03:40
scrottie0	one thing after another.	03:40
@preaction	yes, there are nights where i lay awake with all the wonderful possibilities that i don't know are happening because i cannot look	03:42
@preaction	our little security scare, for instance	03:42
@preaction	and the one server i didn't rebuild from scratch, but merely replaced the kernel and sshd	03:43
@preaction	damnit, now you reminded me of those :p	03:43
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@preaction	http://bit.ly/g4J2EM The full story of the cache stampede problem!	07:01
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elnino	in the sqlreort template, does the <tmpl_if query3.hasNest> HAVE to be in the <tmpl_loop query3.rows_loop>?	07:59
elnino	I don't want them to look like they are nesting. and my brain isn't wrapping around this too clearly.	08:00
@preaction	if you're not using a 4th query, you don't need that at all, iirc	08:00
elnino	when I tried to take it out of the query3 loop, the query4 didn't dispaly	08:00
elnino	i need the query4	08:00
@preaction	then yes, it has to be in the rows loop. every query is run once against each row of the previous query	08:01
elnino	basically, I have my first query. and query 2,3,4 all are returning info based on query1's id.	08:01
elnino	query 2,3,4 aren't related to eachother.	08:01
elnino	only to query 1	08:01
elnino	does that make sense?	08:01
@preaction	but that's the way SQLReport does it	08:01
elnino	I suppose I can break them up into separate reports and put them on a page laytou.	08:02
elnino	they are essently running off a form id.	08:03
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elnino	I thought there was a isfirst and islast option in the loops?	08:30
@preaction	__FIRST__ and __LAST__ i think	08:31
elnino	ok i'll try those. I can't find it in the tmeplate help. I thought it was in there somewhere.	08:32
@preaction	no, it's added as part of HTML::Template's default behaviors	08:32
elnino	ah. I could have used <TMPL_IF query2> rather than if hasnested.	08:35
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@preaction	anyone have an idea why we md5 hash the cache keys to make them bigger?	19:31
+perlDreamer	You'd have to ATA, preaction	20:21
+perlDreamer	from what I'm seeing through the history, I think the idea was that any reference to any object was supposed to be a GUID	20:26
+perlDreamer	so everything as MD5'ed	20:26
+perlDreamer	of course, on the other side, it pretty much prevents you from figuring out who is putting what into the Cache at any given time, either	20:38
scrottie	makes it more difficult, for sure. you could build a translation of md5 hashes back to the original keys, stuff it in a table, and relate on it.	20:52
scrottie	which would, of course, be dumb.	20:52
+perlDreamer	sounds like a ranbox table	20:53
+perlDreamer	uh, rainbox table	20:53
+perlDreamer	rainbow table	20:53
scrottie	part of the mojo of the rainbow table versus an ordinary "crack dictionary" is that NT LAN Manager and Novell before it busted the password up into 8 character chunks and hashed each individually.	20:55
scrottie	so it's possible to store on just a few CD-ROMs every possible 8 characters behind each hash and therefore every possible password.	20:55
scrottie	not to be pedantic or anything >=)~	20:56
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theBrettman	hi. thinking of using webgui and using the demo. I have some questions	21:37
@preaction	ask away!	21:40
theBrettman	first, I don't know if it's cuz of the demo but the clipboard and other menu items aren't showing	21:40
+perlDreamer	do you have anything in the clipboard yet?	21:41
+perlDreamer	is admin mode turned on?	21:41
theBrettman	yes, admin mode is on and all that is on it is Admin Console and New Content	21:42
+perlDreamer	well, until you put something in the clipboard, that item won't show in the Admin Bar	21:42
+perlDreamer	I just created a demo site, and cut something to the clipboard, and it added the Clipboard tab	21:43
+perlDreamer	you can have a look at it here, if you wish: http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1299702731_836/	21:45
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theBrettman_	sorry about that, I used some chrome extension, lol	21:46
+perlDreamer	sure, did you get my comment about the clipboard not showing up, until you put something into it?	21:47
theBrettman_	yes	21:47
theBrettman_	but other things are missing too	21:47
+perlDreamer	ah, like what?	21:47
theBrettman_	it only has Admin Console and New Content	21:47
+perlDreamer	well, if you don't have any Version Tags open, then that tab will be missing as well	21:48
theBrettman_	cool	21:48
+perlDreamer	so, I think you're really doing okay	21:48
theBrettman_	I deleted the home page and it would still go to the home page?	21:48
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theBrettman_	I put the homepage back and it doesn't show on the navigation	21:49
+perlDreamer	what's the URL for your demo site?	21:49
theBrettman_	and I also want to change the order of the navigation	21:49
+perlDreamer	Navigation order is controlled by the order of the Assets in the Asset Manager	21:49
theBrettman_	http://demo.webgui.org/demo1299696324_211/home	21:49
theBrettman_	wow, that asset manager is cool!	21:50
+perlDreamer	thanks :)	21:51
+perlDreamer	all kudos go to preaction	21:51
+perlDreamer	about deleting the home page	21:51
+perlDreamer	WebGUI has a setting for what the "Default home page" is	21:51
theBrettman_	ok, so is there an easy way to show upcoming events from the calendar on the front page limited to 3?	21:51
theBrettman_	where do I find that setting?	21:52
+perlDreamer	in Admin Console/Settings	21:52
+perlDreamer	for the calendar, you have a couple of choices	21:52
+perlDreamer	1) build a shortcut of the Calendar, and override the default view to be list, and the amount of events to be 3, and probably need a good template as well	21:53
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+perlDreamer	2) Build a 2nd calendar that pulls the ical feed from the first, and then overrides the default view and the other settings	21:53
theBrettman_	yeah, I can make my own templates pretty easy, right?	21:53
+perlDreamer	oh sure	21:53
+perlDreamer	have you read the documentation on webgui.org yet?	21:54
theBrettman_	this is the mockup http://apsurge.com/mockups/stjohn/	21:54
theBrettman_	I started reading the documentation but I only get a day for a demo so I wanna build this site real quick and see if I run into any problems	21:54
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+perlDreamer	have you tried using the WebGUI Virtual Machine?	21:55
+perlDreamer	you'd need a copy of VMWare, or Virtual Box for that	21:55
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+perlDreamer	but then you can have a persistent WebGUI for tinkering, right on your own computer	21:55
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theBrettman_	cool	21:56
theBrettman_	I got 4GB of ram so I guess I could do that	21:56
theBrettman_	hm... vmware or virtual box?	21:57
+perlDreamer	the WebGUI VM will run in either of them	21:57
theBrettman_	so how much does webgui cost?	21:57
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+perlDreamer	$0 to download, use and customize it	21:57
preaction_	it's free	21:57
theBrettman_	really?	21:58
+perlDreamer	yeah	21:58
theBrettman_	wow!	21:58
theBrettman_	ok, it's final, we're using this!	21:58
+perlDreamer	and if you need support, design work, templating, training, customized code or hosting, then there are companies that do that	21:58
theBrettman_	well, we are a web development company	21:58
theBrettman_	and this has an api and everything	21:58
+perlDreamer	yes	21:59
theBrettman_	goodbye to dreamweaver and visual studio pretty much, lol	21:59
theBrettman_	cool so how exactly do I put it on the server?	22:00
+perlDreamer	it only runs on Apache	22:01
+perlDreamer	and will not run easily (if at all) on Windows	22:01
+perlDreamer	that's one of the reasons we make the VM available	22:01
theBrettman_	oh crap. the boss isn't gonna like that, lol. we got MS	22:01
+perlDreamer	well, you can drop the VM and run it in production, right next to your MS ISS server	22:02
theBrettman_	so I could just put the vm on the server?	22:02
theBrettman_	cool	22:02
+perlDreamer	yes, running inside VMWare or Virtual Box	22:02
* perlDreamer needs to wander off and have lunch with my wife		22:02
+perlDreamer	bbiaw	22:02
theBrettman_	thx	22:02
preaction_	i wouldn't suggest using the vm in production if you have a real linux server around	22:05
preaction_	but for dev the vm works just fine	22:05
theBrettman_	wow, what if we got a dedicated server?	22:05
preaction_	a linode would work fine	22:05
theBrettman_	idk if we can install that on it	22:05
theBrettman_	what's a linode?	22:05
preaction_	linode.com	22:06
theBrettman_	we already have hosting tho	22:06
theBrettman_	and I don't know if we can put a virtual machine on it or if it already has it or what	22:07
theBrettman_	I don't think the boss will let us change hosting either	22:07
preaction_	do you have a shell on that hosted system?	22:08
theBrettman_	yes, I guess we have complete control over it	22:09
theBrettman_	the thing is, we're hosting other sites we made	22:09
preaction_	then you can install webgui on that	22:09
theBrettman_	but it has iis	22:09
preaction_	so it's a windows server	22:09
theBrettman_	yes	22:09
preaction_	you poor thing	22:10
theBrettman_	and they said no to the virtual machine cuz of resources	22:10
theBrettman_	grr	22:10
theBrettman_	I say we need another server	22:10
theBrettman_	we were using sitefinity and now we're using wordpress cuz it's alot lighter	22:11
theBrettman_	sitefinity was hogging all the memory	22:12
theBrettman_	I wonder how much memory webgui uses compared to wordpress?	22:12
theBrettman_	so I shouldn't need the vm on my laptop cuz I got xampp, right?	22:13
preaction_	you need the vm because webgui doesn't work well on windows servers. you'd have to install from scratch	22:13
theBrettman_	is there a verse of the day widget?	22:16
theBrettman_	that fetches from Bible Gateway verso of the day?	22:17
preaction_	it seems the verse of the day is available via RSS, so you could use a syndicated content asset to pull it from their site	22:18
theBrettman_	sweet	22:19
theBrettman_	do u know if webgui uses a lot of memory?	22:19
preaction_	depends on what you consider a lot	22:20
preaction_	mod_php and mod_perl use about the same amount of memory iirc	22:20
theBrettman_	well, wordpress is good on memory. do u know how it compares?	22:20
preaction_	i've never run a wordpress site	22:20
theBrettman_	check this out: http://vschart.com/compare/wordpress/vs/webgui	22:21
preaction_	we recommend a server with 2G of RAM: 1G for the OS, 300M for mysql, and the rest to make sure you have enough apache/mod_perl processes to serve pages	22:21
theBrettman_	u can prolly fill that out, lol	22:22
preaction_	meh	22:22
preaction_	seems biased towards wordpress, which is a blog	22:22
theBrettman_	I'm sure u know what goes where all the ? are	22:22
preaction_	i'm sure i do too	22:22
theBrettman_	that's cuz they didn't know what to put I bet	22:22
theBrettman_	it lets u edit it	22:23
theBrettman_	is there a way to measure how much memory it's going to use?	22:29
theBrettman_	hm... I got an idea. there's free servers out there I can test this on, lol	22:30
preaction_	as i mentioned, we recommend a server with 2G of ram	22:30
theBrettman_	do u work for plain black or?	22:38
preaction_	yes	22:38
theBrettman_	I wonder if there's any free hosting that has webgui installed?	22:41
preaction_	not that i know of	22:41
theBrettman_	that way I can play with it on there	22:41
theBrettman_	maybe I can talk one of the free hosts into it	22:41
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scrottie	I'm starting to think that I need to re-up with Qwest but for voice service, not data. they're good at that. then I can dial up when other stuff is down.	22:48
+perlDreamer	maybe pigeons, scrottie?	23:13
+perlDreamer	very low bandwidth, but environmentally friendly	23:14
scrottie	someone actually did do TCP-over-pigeon.	23:20
+perlDreamer	I know, and if it can be done, I figure that you're the man to do it	23:21
+perlDreamer	the problem is that TCPOP is much too close to TCPOOP	23:23
+perlDreamer	which can happen when you try to route too many packets simultaneously	23:23
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theBrettman_	so to change the order of the navigation, I change its rank in assets?	23:42
+perlDreamer	yes	23:42
theBrettman_	is there a way to just make it go up?	23:42
theBrettman_	so I don't have to change the number of every rank?	23:42
+perlDreamer	for example, you want to make #5 into #3?	23:42
+perlDreamer	just change the 5 to a 3, and WebGUI will do the hard work for you	23:43
theBrettman_	ok	23:43
+perlDreamer	a click and drag interface would be nice	23:43
+perlDreamer	and preaction may have plans for that in the new version 8 that's coming out	23:43
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theBrettman_	how do u rollback changes?	23:46
+perlDreamer	in WebGUI, some asset changes are not versioned	23:47
+perlDreamer	cut, delete, rank and purge are not revisioned	23:48
+perlDreamer	however, all changes to asset properties (rather than states) are revisioned	23:48
theBrettman_	I mean if I wanted to put the site back the way it was when it was first created?	23:49
xdanger	in the edit screen you have revions in the right site, you can then save an older revision as a new	23:49
+perlDreamer	also, if the Admin Bar, there's an option called Versions	23:49
+perlDreamer	you can rollback revisions that you made	23:50
+perlDreamer	however, once rolled back, they're gone forever	23:50
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xdanger	I'm fucked... I upgraded my jailbroken iphone to the newest version and now I can't downgrade, or jailbreak the new version... Why o why wasn't I paying attention when I installed the stock firmware...	23:52
theBrettman_	what way is the revisions sorted?	23:53
theBrettman_	descending or ascending?	23:53
theBrettman_	cuz they all say 2hrs, lol	23:53
xdanger	sorry for my language =)	23:53
+perlDreamer	brettman, it's most recent at the top	23:54
theBrettman_	oh, I don't see the versions thingy	23:54
+perlDreamer	It's called Version Tags	23:54
+perlDreamer	2nd to last entry	23:55
theBrettman_	it says: You are currently working under a tag called: None.	23:55
+perlDreamer	Go to Committed Versions (link on the right)	23:56
theBrettman_	yay!	23:56
theBrettman_	what do I do now?	23:57
theBrettman_	I clicked rollback, do I need to do anything else?	23:57
--- Day changed Thu Mar 10 2011
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theBrettman_	anyone here?	00:14
scrottie	I'm here twice.	00:14
preaction_	I'm only here once, but I got a tail	00:14
theBrettman_	when u do a rollback, after u click rollback, do u have to do anything else?	00:14
scrottie	shouldn't. I'm stronger on the internal API side than the CMS side though so, grain of salt.	00:15
preaction_	what else would one have to do? what is the goal you're trying to reach?	00:16
theBrettman_	it didn't work	00:16
theBrettman_	trying to start over	00:16
preaction_	what didn't work?	00:17
theBrettman_	I tried to rollback to the beginning but it didn't work	00:17
preaction_	beginning of what? what did you do that you are now trying to roll back?	00:18
theBrettman_	deleted the homepage and when I put it back, I can't get it to show on the navigation	00:18
theBrettman_	and I can't find it in assets	00:18
scrottie	from the asset manager, look in the trash.	00:19
theBrettman_	can't find the home layout in assets	00:19
theBrettman_	I don't see a trash in the assets manager	00:19
scrottie	going to previous versions refers to edits to the config (including text inside of) an asset, not to where it is	00:19
+perlDreamer	Trash is an entry in the Admin Bar, or the Admin Console	00:20
scrottie	sorry, right.	00:20
+perlDreamer	when an Asset is deleted, it goes to the Trash	00:21
+perlDreamer	scrottie, you need more UI time :P	00:21
scrottie	I do.	00:21
theBrettman_	I know, I restored it from the trash	00:21
theBrettman_	but it won't show up as an asset for some dumb reason	00:21
scrottie	can you view it if you type in its url directly?	00:21
theBrettman_	I see a page layout on the page tho	00:22
scrottie	do you know its url?	00:22
+perlDreamer	the site has a home page	00:22
scrottie	page layouts are trixy.	00:22
+perlDreamer	so I'm not sure what you're talking about theBrettman_	00:22
theBrettman_	it has 2 homepages, lol	00:22
+perlDreamer	yes	00:23
theBrettman_	I deleted the original home page layout	00:23
+perlDreamer	no, you didn't	00:23
+perlDreamer	it's still there	00:23
theBrettman_	when I went to put it back	00:23
theBrettman_	that's cuz I restored it	00:23
theBrettman_	but it doesn't show in the navigation	00:23
theBrettman_	and so I went to find it in assets	00:23
theBrettman_	and it doesn't show the page layout	00:23
theBrettman_	only the one for home2	00:23
+perlDreamer	that's because the navigation is not configured to show the home page	00:24
+perlDreamer	only the pages below home	00:24
+perlDreamer	if you want Home in the Navigation, you need to find the Navigation asset, and change its configuration	00:24
theBrettman_	assets only shows page layouts and articles right now	00:25
theBrettman_	how do I show the navigation?	00:25
+perlDreamer	navigations are handled specially	00:26
+perlDreamer	the navigation is off one the side, and its content is copied (proxied) into the style template	00:26
+perlDreamer	to find out where it, here's what to do	00:26
+perlDreamer	Edit a Page Layout asset	00:26
+perlDreamer	select the Display tab	00:26
+perlDreamer	Find the entry for the Style Template, and click on the Edit button next to it	00:27
+perlDreamer	that will take you to the Style Template	00:27
+perlDreamer	in the Style Template, you are looking for an AssetProxy macro	00:27
+perlDreamer	it will have the URL for the navigation in it	00:27
theBrettman_	AssetProxy(crystalx/crystalx_navigation);	00:28
+perlDreamer	that's it	00:28
+perlDreamer	so, in the Asset Manager, on the top, there's a crumb trail navigation	00:28
+perlDreamer	select Root	00:28
+perlDreamer	then, after the page reload, select Import from the list below	00:29
+perlDreamer	page reload again	00:29
+perlDreamer	then, you'll find the crystalx folder, and click on it to enter it	00:29
theBrettman_	aha!	00:29
theBrettman_	cool	00:29
+perlDreamer	find the navigation, and change the configuration	00:29
+perlDreamer	in that style, though, there's a home page link on the site's logo	00:29
+perlDreamer	so most people skip it	00:29
+perlDreamer	especially for a wide navigation like CrystalX	00:30
theBrettman_	oh, that's not good	00:30
theBrettman_	it says it's corrupt?	00:30
theBrettman_	when I click import	00:30
+perlDreamer	sorry, wrong import	00:31
+perlDreamer	don't use the button	00:31
+perlDreamer	when you clicked on Root	00:31
+perlDreamer	the list of assets displayed has an Import folder link	00:31
theBrettman_	well, I really just wanna make my own template	00:33
theBrettman_	how do I do like a header and footer?	00:34
+perlDreamer	that's done in the style template	00:37
theBrettman_	maybe I can look at the style 3 one for an example but I'm not sure where it is, lol	00:38
+perlDreamer	it's in the Import node	00:38
theBrettman_	I'll figure it out in a sec tho	00:38
+perlDreamer	oh, before I forget	00:38
+perlDreamer	here's an example of a school website built with WebGUI: http://www.forsythtech.edu/	00:38
theBrettman_	wow, sweet site!	00:40
theBrettman_	I looked in the import node for it but I don't see it	00:40
+perlDreamer	I think that's in WebGUI 7 Style 3	00:41
+perlDreamer	you can also use the search feature in the Asset Manager to find it	00:41
theBrettman_	oh, ok. I g2g. time to leave work. I'll get back on when I get home...	00:41
theBrettman_	oh that's cool. I'll just use search from now on	00:42
theBrettman_	ttyl	00:42
preaction_	lesson learned today: sometimes, spreading load from 1 server to 2 servers bring more than 100% performance increase	00:44
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+perlDreamer	preaction, do you have a few minutes?	00:49
+perlDreamer	Firefox seems to think that the WebGUI i18n object is recursively defined	00:49
+perlDreamer	Firebug, rather	00:49
+perlDreamer	you can grab a copy of WebGUI.i18n, and open the constructor	00:49
+perlDreamer	which shows a copy of prototype	00:49
+perlDreamer	which has a constructor	00:49
+perlDreamer	which has a prototype	00:49
+perlDreamer	and so on...	00:50
scrottie0	huh. prompt() is part of ExtUtils::MakeMaker.	00:50
preaction_	perlDreamer: that's how JS objects work. they all have constructors, which have prototypes, which have constructors, etc...	00:51
+perlDreamer	I hate JS	00:52
+perlDreamer	that is totally stupid	00:52
preaction_	why?	00:52
preaction_	it means making a new object is as easy as copying the constructor's prototype into a container, and then running the constructor on it	00:52
scrottie0	except for the copying bit, it isn't that different from @ISA	00:53
+perlDreamer	sure, but the recursive structure contained in EVERY object is just memory leak waiting to happen	00:53
scrottie0	generally, you don't want parents that are in use to go away.	00:53
preaction_	recursive structures aren't hard to remove	00:53
+perlDreamer	tell that to perl's GC	00:53
preaction_	java's method of GC (i forget what it is, but it's not refcount) does recursive cleanup better, at the cost of being more complicated and slower (iirc)	00:54
scrottie0	mark-sweep, generally.	00:55
preaction_	yeah, that's it	00:55
scrottie0	generational mark-sweep.	00:55
scrottie0	I saw a circular reference detector the other day	00:55
scrottie0	for Perl	00:55
scrottie0	I've got something I've been playing with, too, for compacting Perl memory. it's... uh, Acme potential.	00:57
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+perlDreamer	hm, I think a new laptop is in my wife's future	01:27
+perlDreamer	she just spilled a whole cup of chai latte onto it	01:27
+perlDreamer	I told her that if she really wanted a new laptop, she just had to ask	01:27
+perlDreamer	there's no need to nuke the old one	01:27
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scrottie	get her one of these: http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/business-rugged-toughbook-C1-convertible-tablet-pc.asp	01:49
scrottie	it features this business: http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/img/productTechnology/bizrug-spill-resistant.gif	01:50
+perlDreamer	the laptop appears to be toast	02:23
+perlDreamer	won't turn on	02:23
+perlDreamer	I guess that makes it lactose intolerant	02:23
+perlDreamer	:)	02:23
scrottie	I imagine a chai latte has a pretty low electrical resistance.	02:23
+perlDreamer	yeah	02:41
+perlDreamer	I'm like 70% sure it's toasted	02:41
+perlDreamer	I've been opening up things like mad	02:41
+perlDreamer	and now I'm off to the computer store to get a hard drive enclosure so we can check out the drive	02:41
+perlDreamer	thank goodness for old, usable laptops laying around the house!	02:42
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scrottie	oh, HandlerSocket does support compound keys. you just use the name of the index on those compound keys. duurr...	04:43
@preaction_	interesting	04:46
@preaction_	might be even more useful now	04:46
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theBrettman	u know what would be cool? line numbers and intellesense for the text editor!!! and maybe a drop down for finding classes and methods...	05:25
@preaction_	theBrettman: you're joking right?	05:27
theBrettman	that would be awesome. not that it's gonna be done tomorrow but...	05:27
@preaction_	for 2 minor versions we had line numbers and syntax highlighting, and they just about lynched me for it	05:27
@preaction_	so i removed it	05:28
theBrettman	y didn't they like it?	05:28
@preaction_	because it's impossible to make one without some fairly significant bugs, due to the way browsers treat contentEditable iframes	05:29
theBrettman	oh. u mean due to internet explorer lol	05:29
@preaction_	not only IE. IE did some funky things, but Safari also (doesn't support <table> in contentEditable iframes, or at least didn't)	05:30
theBrettman	I was gonna install fedora on an old box I had laying around and then realized it only has 256MB ram... not enough to run WebGUI :(	05:30
@preaction_	not well, at least. you might be able to tweak mysql down to fit	05:31
theBrettman	my dad has an old box with an athlon and I got 2gb ram for it so maybe I'll get my hands on it	05:31
theBrettman	what do u think is better chrome or firebug?	05:32
theBrettman	I still like firebug better but I like chrome better than FF	05:32
@preaction_	chrome is a browser, firebug is a plugin, but i prefer webkit's (chrome/safari) web inspector to firebug or IE's	05:32
@preaction_	webkit's inspector doesn't slow down the browser, also it doesn't break when the browser releases a new version	05:33
theBrettman	yes, I know. I just said chrome for short instead of whatever their tool is called	05:33
theBrettman	lol	05:33
theBrettman	I wish they would make the padding and margins show purple or yellow like firebug tho	05:34
@preaction_	that's how firefox lost me as a user 3 years ago: FF3 came out, but firebug didn't work in it. took them months to get it fixed	05:34
theBrettman	and firebug pops up a ruler now too when u look in metrics	05:34
theBrettman	but their ruler kinda sucks	05:35
theBrettman	maybe webkit will add that stuff soon	05:35
theBrettman	that would be sweet	05:35
scrottie0	holy snot... t/CHIDriverTests-MySQLHandlerSocket.t .. ok	06:43
scrottie0	I really should write a domain specific language for these squirrely little data lists Net::HandlerSocket takes.	06:46
@preaction_	or something... this API looks rather... spartan	06:47
scrottie0	lack of replace into / insert if not exist / whatever is an annoyance. I have a delete and an insert stacked in one packet with execute_multi() but that's kludgey.	06:49
scrottie0	I wonder if it would be faster to stack an insert and an update.	06:50
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CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r88797c1 / (42 files in 21 dirs):	07:35
CIA-68	webgui: Add Asset Dashlets to Dashboard. Add required and static properties to	07:35
CIA-68	webgui: Dashboard Assets. Add caching to StockData and WeatherData assets. Add	07:35
CIA-68	webgui: LastModifiedBy macro. Add GroupManager to the Group form control. -	07:35
CIA-68	webgui: http://bit.ly/hFbsZQ	07:35
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scrottie	rscync'ing down the wre source to the linux laptop... will try to build there in the morning, since building on dev is failing horribly.	09:24
scrottie	CHI::Driver::HandlerSocket got pushed to CPAN. there were no real prospects for merging in HandlerSocket support to Handler::Socket::DBI.	09:26
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Haarg	preaction_, i read in your blog post that memcached isn't supported in WebGUI 7. why not? wouldn't the CHI driver be able to do that?	20:58
@preaction_	iirc it's the deleteChunk that doesn't work	20:59
Haarg	ah, makes sense	20:59
@preaction_	really i don't remember why, just that i tried and failed	20:59
* perlDreamer heads off to pick up kids from school		21:06
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, have you ever tried the github SVN import for opening a new git repo?	21:58
Haarg	no	21:58
* perlDreamer briefly considers making the standalone svn server try to work instead of modperl integration to try it		21:59
Haarg	is any part of the translation server up?	22:01
Haarg	and if not, when was svn last up?	22:01
+perlDreamer	July 2009	22:02
Haarg	9?	22:02
+perlDreamer	yeah	22:03
+perlDreamer	when the big server move happened	22:03
+perlDreamer	well, maybe it was '10	22:04
Haarg	https://github.com/haarg/webgui-translations	22:04
+perlDreamer	serious?	22:04
Haarg	yeah	22:05
Haarg	part of one of a few attempts i made at a new translation server	22:05
+perlDreamer	hm	22:06
+perlDreamer	if I can sync what's in there now, with what's on the server for a catch-u	22:06
+perlDreamer	catch-up	22:06
+perlDreamer	then all that's left to do is translate svn command lines to git command lines	22:06
Haarg	that should have everything that was in svn, so do whatever you like with it	22:07
+perlDreamer	I'll clone it for tinkering purposes	22:07
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CIA-68	webgui: Mary Hoerr master * ree40a71 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Removed caching from www_export() Fixes bug #12050. - http://bit.ly/hqn11A	01:12
CIA-68	webgui: Mary Hoerr webgui-7.9 * r8311e8a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm):	01:12
CIA-68	webgui: Removed caching from www_export() Fixes bug #12050.	01:12
CIA-68	webgui: Conflicts:	01:12
CIA-68	webgui: docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt - http://bit.ly/em3KzM	01:12
+perlDreamer	yay Mary!	01:17
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CIA-68	webgui: Scott Walters master * r14cac88 / (3 files in 2 dirs): first untested pass at merging changes to Story/StoryTopic/StoryArchive from AEIF - http://bit.ly/fKi8Lz	03:07
CIA-68	webgui: Scott Walters master * r055fdba / (3 files in 2 dirs):	03:07
CIA-68	webgui: Revert "first untested pass at merging changes to Story/StoryTopic/StoryArchive from AEIF"	03:07
CIA-68	webgui: ... should have been in a branch	03:07
CIA-68	webgui: This reverts commit 14cac88fd11f91a6eb6faa7abc11d735551d05d2. - http://bit.ly/hIHT34	03:07
CIA-68	webgui: Scott Walters master * re1259e3 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Cache/CHI.pm):	03:07
CIA-68	webgui: Let CHI modules other than just DBI get their hands on dbh and perhaps other things in the future;	03:07
CIA-68	webgui: add an "args" : [ "dbh" ] entry to the "cache" : { } config block - http://bit.ly/fgKKKX	03:07
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scrottie	come back! dammit.	03:41
@preaction_	NEVER!	03:41
@preaction_	hmm... apparently cmake is better than autotools	03:42
scrottie	eventually, I'm going to break something really bad today if I keep at this.	03:44
CIA-68	webgui: Scott Walters master * r1942ccc / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Cache/CHI.pm):	03:45
CIA-68	webgui: Let CHI modules other than just DBI get their hands on dbh and perhaps other things in the future;	03:45
CIA-68	webgui: add an "args" : [ "dbh" ] entry to the "cache" : { } config block - http://bit.ly/fHb0Z9	03:45
scrottie	I've rolled the --force and -rf dice way too many times the past two days.	03:45
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@preaction_	yeah, i was doing manual db editing without a backup. put a few wrong semi-colons and almost hit enter: bam! entire group gone	04:27
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@pbcj	I seem to be missing WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit	18:17
@pbcj	ha.. rtfm ftw	18:27
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elnino	good morning!	18:28
+perlDreamer	hey, elnino!	18:30
elnino	hi!	18:30
elnino	I stayed up very late and I think I found a bug with sql report.	18:30
+perlDreamer	that's quite possible	18:31
elnino	but I'm looking to see if there is any documentaton on sqlreport on the site and there really doesn't seem to be.	18:31
+perlDreamer	whaddya seein' ?	18:31
elnino	well.	18:31
elnino	when I designed my report. I'm using all 5 queries.	18:31
elnino	probaby my first mistake. =)	18:31
elnino	the first query is my "main" query that returns a primary ID	18:32
elnino	the queryes 2-5 are all one to many to that first query.	18:32
elnino	so each of those stand on their own returning multiple records based on the ID returned by the first query.	18:32
elnino	with me?	18:32
+perlDreamer	I think so	18:32
elnino	My first query returns a song list.	18:33
elnino	my second query returns all the languages it was translated to.	18:33
elnino	for example.	18:33
+perlDreamer	okay	18:33
+perlDreamer	got you	18:33
elnino	and so on.	18:33
elnino	query2-5 are not related to eachother.	18:33
+perlDreamer	oh	18:34
elnino	when I look at the template does.	18:34
elnino	s/does/docs	18:34
+perlDreamer	I think that's your problem right there	18:34
+perlDreamer	all the queries nest	18:34
+perlDreamer	so if they have to be related	18:34
elnino	well. hold on.. Only in your default template do they nest.	18:34
elnino	I have to go get my boy.. just a sec	18:34
+perlDreamer	no, in the code they nest, and the template is built to reflect that	18:34
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+perlDreamer	I have to make a phone call, I'll be back in a while	18:35
elnino	well. in your template documntation it appears	18:35
elnino	that they shouldn't be that way.	18:35
elnino	because it allows you to test each query independatnly	18:35
elnino	I woudl argue that the code is wrong.	18:36
elnino	you should be able to make them act nested via templates or not.	18:36
elnino	just to make sure we're on the same page: This is how I think sqlreports are designed:	18:43
elnino	query1 returns a list of CDs	18:43
elnino	query 2 returns songs listed on cd	18:43
elnino	query 3 lists the lanaguage for each of those songs for each cd	18:43
elnino	query 4 would list performers for each language for each song found on each cd.	18:43
elnino	What I want is this:	18:43
elnino	query 1 returns songid	18:43
elnino	query 2 returns languages each songid was translated into	18:43
elnino	query 3 returns all the instruments for each songid	18:43
elnino	languages and instruments have nothing todo with eachother. where as the performers probably change if the song was translated in to different languages	18:45
elnino	I'm displaying this in a table, so each song starts a row, and q2-3 are displayed in their own column as a comma delimited list.	18:46
elnino	and the documentation indicates that I should be able to do <tmpl_if query2>loop here</tmpl_if> followed by <tmpl_if query3>loop here.</tmpl_if>	18:47
elnino	if there is no data in query2 query 3 shoudl still be able to be run and display data - and that's my problem. which obviously is how thecode was written as you stated before.	18:51
elnino	s/how/not how	18:57
elnino	so I'm trying to figure out how to do this. I wonder if I can I do nested sqlreports?	18:58
elnino	with Assetproxy or somethign.	18:58
+perlDreamer	elnino, that's exactly how the SQL Report is designed	19:17
+perlDreamer	so you can't build the alternate query	19:17
+perlDreamer	you'd use multiple reports to do that	19:18
elnino	and I would argue, that that is a flawed design. =)	19:19
+perlDreamer	how would you tell WebGUI that you want sequential queries, vs. nested one?	19:20
elnino	it's all based on the parameters used.	19:20
+perlDreamer	so you want WebGUI to analyze your queries and try to guess what you want?	19:21
+perlDreamer	remember, you're just giving form fields a bunch of text	19:21
elnino	if the parameter is query1:thingDataId, then it's obvious.	19:21
elnino	or is there something I'm missing?	19:22
+perlDreamer	yes	19:22
elnino	ok. I'm listening. =)	19:23
+perlDreamer	that would be used _either_ by nested, or by sequential queries	19:23
elnino	well, mine are "nested" so it's all how you define it right? query2 is nested in query1, query3 is nested in query1, query 4 is nested in query1 and query5 is nested in query1	19:24
elnino	not just 1->2->3->4-> 5	19:24
+perlDreamer	so, really you're arguing that by looking at the placeholder params, you can define arbitrary sequences of nested and sequential queries	19:26
elnino	I'm thinking. =)	19:26
elnino	y..e..s... but I don't know how you'd implement it... lol	19:27
+perlDreamer	well...	19:28
elnino	there's gotta be a way...	19:28
elnino	you guys are smart...	19:28
+perlDreamer	first, you'd write a bunch of tests to test the way that it works now	19:28
+perlDreamer	then, you'd start to look at the placeholder params and figure out which queries depend on each other	19:28
+perlDreamer	you'd add constraints and checks so that you can't do circular lookups, or refer to queries that don't exist	19:28
+perlDreamer	and then you'd write new tests to validate all the work	19:29
+perlDreamer	however, it's a new feature and not a currently built-in one	19:29
elnino	OR	19:30
elnino	you could change how the "add query" button works, and give the option of "nested" or "sequential"	19:31
elnino	just like report software does it, you add a "sub query" or just a nother "query"	19:31
+perlDreamer	when you type that word "change", I see "RFE" :)	19:31
elnino	yes yes. point taken.	19:32
elnino	lol	19:32
+perlDreamer	it's a particular failing of mine :)	19:32
elnino	so... how do I do a table? Can I do assetproxy with sqlreport tempatle?	19:32
+perlDreamer	instead of nesting queries in the SQL Report, how about using more gnarly SQL ?	19:33
elnino	I've done gnarly sql before....	19:34
elnino	but its been a while	19:35
elnino	anything is possible though.	19:35
elnino	I suppose.	19:36
elnino	I'm going to have to add more columns I think.	19:36
elnino	becaus for the subquerys they returned more than one result.	19:37
elnino	I'm not sure how else to deal with those other than making them additional columns.	19:37
+perlDreamer	I'd use subqueries in the SQL itself	19:38
+perlDreamer	select CONCAT(",", (select blah from elsewhere)) as languages	19:38
+perlDreamer	but my sql foo is weak	19:38
elnino	I was wondering if something like that could be done. Off to google I go.	19:39
elnino	sweet - easier than that.. group_concat - http://mahmudahsan.wordpress.com/2008/08/27/mysql-the-group_concat-function/	19:41
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@preaction_	well, WebGUI will soon be a lot better at surviving in multi-master environments	21:26
+perlDreamer	how so?	21:34
scrottie	chainmail.	21:34
@preaction_	making the update/insert statements play more nicely when the databases may be a few seconds behind each other	21:38
@preaction_	lineage being the most egregious offender...	21:39
+perlDreamer	preaction: I was looking at something that Chris mentioned about the Developer Best Practices	22:06
+perlDreamer	it recommends using Tie::CPhash still	22:06
+perlDreamer	do you want me to take a first pass as the really bad stuff and have you follow up?	22:06
+perlDreamer	or would you rather do it?	22:07
* perlDreamer will go eat lunch and give you time to ponder that deep philosophical question		22:07
@preaction_	go ahead, i've got bigger fish to fry right now	22:10
scrottie	nginx doesn't seem to have much in the way of docs on their main web site...	22:16
@preaction_	no, it's at wiki.nginx.org i thingk	22:22
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@preaction_	just like our server crashes of spring 2010 made me a damn expert in linux sysadmin, now does the mysql fiasco of 2011 make me a damn mysql expert :p	23:48
@preaction_	note the positioning of the adjective "damn", this is not coincidence or chance	23:48
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elnino	OK!!! I'm ready for my next step. Does the yahoo api thingy that webgui use, have the ability to sort tables? and where would I look? or should I just use jquery?	06:59
elnino	of course it does. you use it all the time. Never mind. silly. look.	07:02
elnino	anyone here?	08:14
@preaction_	nope!	08:14
elnino	gotta question about YUI	08:15
elnino	ok.	08:15
elnino	I got the YUI thing working,and I cansort my table just wonderfully.	08:15
elnino	except for a couple columns that have HTML in them.	08:15
elnino	I had to get rid of those.	08:15
elnino	but apparatnly YUI has some formater functions? but I cant seem to sfind if they have one to parse HTML properly.	08:16
@preaction_	you could write a formatter that would just spit out the html directly	08:16
elnino	and none of the examples I see of theirs have this in their data.	08:16
elnino	well, that's too smart.	08:16
@preaction_	elCell.innerHTML = oResponse["responsekey"]	08:16
@preaction_	i think	08:16
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elnino	then my question is, is my javascript table in the correct format.. because I'm dealing with nested quotes and stuff.	08:17
elnino	do I need to escape them with \?	08:17
elnino	right now, the line of data looks like this: songfilelinks:"<a href="/aaam4a">m4a</a>",	08:18
@preaction_	you probably just have to assign innerHTML, but i don't know, never did this	08:24
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elnino	preaction_ yes, you are correct but I also had to have single quotes around the data instead of normal quotes. Thanks!	08:43
elnino	Good night	08:43
elnino	btw, I tried just using single quotes eariler, but that didn't work.	08:44
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@frodwith	as near as I can tell, there's no way to get display images embedded with media:content with the SyndicatedContent wobject. Does that sync up with everyone else's experience?	16:56
@frodwith	s/get//	16:57
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+perlDreamer	frodwith, looks like you're right	17:26
+perlDreamer	frodwith: there are lots of RFEs about attachment handling in WebGUI, both for the creation of, and parsing and display of RSS feeds	17:49
@frodwith	xml::feedpp doesn't have any way of generically getting those types of things is the problem. "problem."	17:58
+perlDreamer	hm	18:01
+perlDreamer	calls to the generic accessor won't work, or it plain won't work with things in the media namespace?	18:01
+perlDreamer	" There are NO native methods for any other external modules, such as media:*. But set() and get() methods are available to get/set the value of any elements or attributes for these modules."	18:02
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r9de558d / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Fix changelog. - http://bit.ly/gccaUe	18:07
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfe2d078 / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.10.11-7.10.12.pl : Fix typo in upgrade script sub name. - http://bit.ly/gLYqyQ	18:20
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2195a7b / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Remove debug logging from www_editSave. - http://bit.ly/f818Tq	19:03
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+perlDreamer	this is great	20:19
+perlDreamer	IE won't encode UTF-8 URLs when making asyncRequests	20:19
+perlDreamer	and if you encode the URI, then it will encode the %'s for you	20:19
Haarg	what version of ie are you talking about?	20:23
+perlDreamer	all of them	20:23
+perlDreamer	well, 6-8	20:23
+perlDreamer	I could try a YUI upgrade to 2.8.2	20:24
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+perlDreamer	lunch time	20:51
Haarg	perlDreamer, i can't reproduce that behavior	21:07
Haarg	unencoded URIs don't work, but encoded URIs are left alone	21:07
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@preaction_	maybe it's only POSTs	21:44
@preaction_	during XmlHttpRequest	21:45
@preaction_	frodwith: everyone wants those features, if you're needing them. i believe elnino went so far as to add <media:> output to CS, but i don't know whatever became of that	21:46
Haarg	tested ie7 and ie8, GET and POST. same results.	21:54
+perlDreamer	Haarg, knowing me and JS, I could have made a mistake	22:03
+perlDreamer	or two	22:03
+perlDreamer	or three	22:03
Haarg	how were you encoding the url?	22:03
+perlDreamer	encodeURI	22:04
Haarg	hmm	22:04
+perlDreamer	let me explain more	22:04
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/869764	22:04
+perlDreamer	this is against i18n.js	22:04
+perlDreamer	and most of the time, a URL is not set	22:04
+perlDreamer	so I used location.href as a default	22:05
+perlDreamer	maybe I should just use location.pathname instead..	22:05
Haarg	well, if location.href is already uri encoded that won't work	22:06
Haarg	you could do something really hacky like encodeURI(url).replace(/%25/g,'%')	22:09
Haarg	i can't think of a good way to do utf-8 encoding only and leaving already escaped stuff alone	22:10
+perlDreamer	you could walk the string and manually encode given a character range	22:11
+perlDreamer	but I don't want to do that	22:11
Haarg	yeah, there are a few ways i can think to do it but they are all pretty shitty	22:12
scrottie0	you guys are going to start calling me grinch.	22:16
+perlDreamer	are you serving roast beast?	22:18
+perlDreamer	Haarg: the thing that really has me is that I don't get why YUI doesn't do this for us	22:18
+perlDreamer	it's like I'm missing something really basic, and important here	22:18
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Haarg	it does seem like something that yui could handle	22:23
+perlDreamer	this seems to be working well: http://gist.github.com/869764	22:25
+perlDreamer	however, the consequences of it are kinda scary	22:25
Haarg	why?	22:25
+perlDreamer	it means reviewing all the JS and encoding all URLs that we use	22:25
+perlDreamer	The same guy who reported this also talked about Thingy	22:26
Haarg	wait	22:26
Haarg	encodeUri?	22:26
+perlDreamer	yes	22:26
Haarg	shouldn't it be encodeURI?	22:27
+perlDreamer	that's what I used	22:27
+perlDreamer	encodeURI	22:27
+perlDreamer	it's in the diff I sent	22:27
Haarg	Uri != URI	22:28
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/869801	22:28
+perlDreamer	sorry, old version of the patch	22:28
+perlDreamer	-801 works	22:28
Haarg	so location.* values are in decoded form?	22:30
+perlDreamer	in checking FF 3.6.13 and IE8, yes	22:30
+perlDreamer	works in chrome	22:31
+perlDreamer	works in Safari (on Vista)	22:32
+perlDreamer	I'll try IE6 next	22:33
+perlDreamer	if there's going to be a problem...	22:33
+perlDreamer	However, like I was saying earlier	22:33
+perlDreamer	if it affects Thingy	22:33
+perlDreamer	it'll touch everything else	22:33
+perlDreamer	including Survey	22:33
Haarg	does survey use ajax stuff?	22:34
+perlDreamer	oh yaeh	22:34
+perlDreamer	everything in Survey is AJAX driven	22:34
+perlDreamer	uh	22:34
+perlDreamer	the editing stuff for sure is	22:34
+perlDreamer	and I think the form building stuff used in the survey is, too	22:34
+perlDreamer	however, now that I know how to make it happen	22:35
+perlDreamer	it's easy to trace	22:35
+perlDreamer	maybe patspam did the right thing	22:35
+perlDreamer	or perlmonkey2	22:35
+perlDreamer	hm	22:37
+perlDreamer	on IE6 I get double encoding	22:38
+perlDreamer	hang on, it doesn't work on iE8	22:41
+perlDreamer	lack of error pop-up does not mean success :/	22:41
+perlDreamer	yeah, of course not	22:44
+perlDreamer	once the i18n passes, you have to fix the DataForm request URL	22:44
+perlDreamer	and so on	22:44
+perlDreamer	and so on...	22:45
+perlDreamer	I guess the other problem is that the browser itself handles UTF-8 links	22:46
+perlDreamer	it must just be the underlying JS engine that doesn't?	22:46
+perlDreamer	preaction, is the top-level WebGUI meta-object going away in 8?	22:47
+perlDreamer	the one that provides all the constants like pageURL, and so on?	22:47
@preaction_	no, i plan on extending it to be better, but not going away	22:48
@preaction_	and afaik it only gives you pageURL and extrasURL, that's it	22:48
+perlDreamer	firstDayOfWeek	22:48
+perlDreamer	and something else, too	22:48
+perlDreamer	no, just those 3	22:49
@preaction_	i may move things around to more closely mimick the perl API (WebGUI.session, WebGUI.asset, whatever)	22:49
@preaction_	but it'll be backward compatible, as i have not deprecated anything yet	22:50
* perlDreamer hands preaction_ the pruning shears		22:50
+perlDreamer	when you're done	22:50
+perlDreamer	it needs to look like an octopus riding on a camel	22:50
+perlDreamer	juggling several software logos	22:50
+perlDreamer	this touches the Shop	23:03
+perlDreamer	Account plugins like Friend Manager	23:03
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CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r038001f / www/extras/yui-webgui/build/swaplist/swaplist.js : Remove dead code that used to be for the CodeArea. - http://bit.ly/gzcZ9a	05:40
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd927f27 / www/extras/yui-webgui/build/form/groupManager.js : Code cleanup for groupManager JS - http://bit.ly/ijwXmJ	05:40
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7b2ccde / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.10.12 release - http://bit.ly/f4N3Va	05:40
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1e422f3 / docs/create.sql :	05:41
CIA-68	webgui: Revert "Preparing for 7.10.12 release"	05:41
CIA-68	webgui: This reverts commit 7b2ccde17f40382a75fb980828d85e753a0b288e. - http://bit.ly/eG96v2	05:41
+perlDreamer	no, sorry	05:43
+perlDreamer	wrong branch this week	05:43
+perlDreamer	it's supposed to be 7.9	05:43
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rd9f15bf / www/extras/yui-webgui/build/swaplist/swaplist.js : Remove dead code that used to be for the CodeArea. - http://bit.ly/iakizc	05:56
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r1c69531 / t/Form/TimeField.t : Fix test to look for the correct # of input fields. - http://bit.ly/f5rEdz	05:56
CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rfd2f89e / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.24 release. - http://bit.ly/ft3eHv	05:57
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CIA-68	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r55fc595 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.25 development. - http://bit.ly/hyq993	06:16
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SDuensin	Ugh. Morning.	15:31
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newbie	hiya	16:20
newbie	quick question?	16:20
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Guest61071	?	16:21
Guest61071	ah	16:21
Guest61071	:)	16:21
Guest61071	ok, quick question	16:21
Guest61071	why isn't there an easy apt-get solution for webgui?	16:22
Guest61071	on ubuntu 10.10 btw	16:22
Guest61071	it's almost like a deliberately contrived process	16:22
Guest61071	and yes, i still cant get it to work (via apt, or manually)	16:22
Guest61071	anyone?	16:23
Guest61071	hellooo.....	16:23
Guest61071	and the forum/wiki searches yield zero help	16:24
Guest61071	is is _really_ that hard that no one here knows?	16:26
Guest61071	is it worth bothering with it?	16:26
ckotil	run a VM	16:27
@pbcj	it installs nicely on ubuntu	16:28
@pbcj	but ckotil is right, if you want to see what it's all about with almost no setup, I'd recommend downloading the VM appplicance	16:28
@pbcj	appliance, even	16:29
Guest61071	theres no vmx file in the vm	16:29
Guest61071	appliances are .vmx files	16:30
Guest61071	and as for 'installs nicely on ubuntu'... ??!!!	16:30
@pbcj	http://sourceforge.net/projects/pbwebgui/files/VMWare%20Appliances/WebGUI%207.8.24%20WRE%200.9.3%20CentOS%205/	16:32
ckotil	yeah, im running the VM on a centos5 box at home. vmplayer then navigate to the .vmx file using the GUI	16:35
Guest61071	i'd rather avaid the vm anyhow, i have setup a linux box for the purpose...	16:36
Guest61071	avaid=avoid...	16:36
Guest61071	where's the nice ububtu install then?	16:37
ckotil	http://sourceforge.net/projects/pbwebgui/files/WebGUI%20Runtime%20Environment/WRE%200.9.3/	16:38
ckotil	ubuntu or from source, i think.	16:38
Guest61071	doesn't work, on 10.10 anyhow	16:39
@pbcj	by that I mean, I'm an ubuntu-er, and my first install using the directions went pretty smoothly, from source	16:39
ckotil	i built mine from source on a rhel5 box, bc i had probs with the rhel5 package	16:39
Guest61071	i did ask for an easy way	16:39
Guest61071	even the site recommends _against_ the source install for speed	16:40
@pbcj	easiest way... have plainblack host it for you ;)	16:40
Guest61071	thats where i figured it was a deliberately contrived process...	16:41
@pbcj	no, it's an open source project	16:41
Guest61071	and every other one has installed without any issues...	16:42
@pbcj	it's linux, there's always issues	16:42
Guest61071	if they really want to spread the word they should make it easier to install	16:42
Guest61071	never had many, other than a good few years back	16:43
Guest61071	shearch the forums, i can just feel the despondency	16:43
Guest61071	shearch=search...	16:43
Guest61071	need coffee	16:43
* ckotil tabs away		16:44
Guest61071	thats a heavy appliance, it's coming in at 1.5gb...	16:44
Guest61071	so, the appliance available to download is not really an appliance then	16:45
Guest61071	available that is, on the webgui site download page	16:45
@pbcj	the link seems to need updating	16:46
Guest61071	...	16:47
Guest61071	i would have tried the os x version of the wre, but i happen to have a 10.4 ppc box and the release is for 10.5 intel	16:49
Guest61071	unless i go for the 2007 download...	16:50
Guest61071	so, no takers for the ubuntu easy install?	16:52
Guest61071	even the synaptic version poops	16:53
Guest61071	figures	16:57
Guest61071	well, thanks	16:59
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qwebirc23618	hiya	17:39
qwebirc23618	me again of the 'easy ubuntu install' question	17:39
qwebirc23618	tried the centos vm: corrupted files	17:39
qwebirc23618	so: i did the synaptic, didnt work	17:40
qwebirc23618	i did the manual, it didnt work	17:40
qwebirc23618	the vm on the site is no vm	17:41
qwebirc23618	the centos vm is broken	17:41
qwebirc23618	does _anyone_ have an easy ubuntu 10.x install?!	17:41
qwebirc23618	that works!?	17:42
qwebirc23618	c'mon, really? no-one?	17:44
qwebirc23618	tried the 8.5 os x ppc version	17:46
qwebirc23618	guess what: didnt work	17:46
qwebirc23618	i haven't seen anything this bad to install	17:47
qwebirc23618	correction, to not install	17:48
qwebirc23618	i genuinely want to use this, as the online demo was the clincher. i was even considering going for the plain black agency hosting package, but these troubles just stink	17:49
qwebirc23618	so i'm having second thoughts and have to trawl the net for something that works	17:49
qwebirc23618	someone, convince me i'm wrong!	17:49
@pbcj	I should maybe clarify	17:57
@pbcj	it's not apt-get easy, but it worked the first time through. You can pull the ubuntu6 prebuilt wre and run a few commands and it should work.	17:58
@pbcj	then you can just git the latest copy of the front-end	17:59
@pbcj	there are some commands to run, but generally speaking the ubuntu install went easiest for me. once familiar with the software I also did a macosx install with relative ease.	18:00
@pbcj	however, if your intention is just to play with it, you can use the demo site ;)	18:00
@pbcj	http://demo.webgui.org/	18:01
qwebirc23618	i did the ubuntu6 too, followed everything to the letter, didnt work	18:05
qwebirc23618	i already tried the demo, like i said, that was the clincher	18:06
@pbcj	what does "didn't work" mean? what the logs say? chances are it's just a matter of fixing whatever is wrong	18:06
qwebirc23618	the "./wreconsole.pl" specifically	18:08
@pbcj	there's a few key points to running wre. make sure you did ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh". run /data/WebGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl	18:08
@pbcj	also, check /data/wre/var/logs to see what wreconsole is failing on	18:09
qwebirc23618	i did those, as stated in the wre install help page on the site	18:16
qwebirc23618	i've just turned the linux box off, tired of trying most of today to get it to work	18:17
qwebirc23618	that, and the unanswered requests i found in the forum search slowly ground on my persistence	18:19
qwebirc23618	check this: http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/installing-webgui-on-ubuntu-10_04/3?pn=1#idx2XZvJFiVRJNOefJO1DXnA	18:20
qwebirc23618	yes, that's the 'apt' version, still, all other queries meet with the same lack of a response	18:22
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qwebirc23618	why is it so broken and not easy to install? all other stuff i've tested has worked with _no_ problems, none whatsoever	18:25
qwebirc23618	this severely taints my even considering plain black hosting	18:26
qwebirc23618	well, that's my answer then...	18:31
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ckotil	good riddance	18:34
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xdanger	has anyone had problems with tinymce popups not working?	00:31
@preaction_	the full window popups? or did you change it to use the internal popups?	00:31
xdanger	both don't work	00:34
xdanger	the window popup doesn't get any content, only a "template"	00:34
xdanger	the inline popups don't insert the text, just reloads a empty popup	00:35
+perlDreamer	which browser, xdanger, and which version wG?	00:36
xdanger	7.9.21, webkit + gecko browsers	00:37
+perlDreamer	webkit, like Safari?	00:38
+perlDreamer	or webkit, like KHtml?	00:38
+perlDreamer	er, Konqueror	00:38
xdanger	in chrome the popup window gets the content rendered, but it doesn't paste anything to the content area	00:38
xdanger	chrome + safari	00:39
xdanger	and I've tested with a webkit browser called stainless =)	00:39
xdanger	it works on a different site, on the same server	00:40
@preaction_	no error messages?	00:40
xdanger	nope... I'll try upgrading the tinymce to 3.4 and see what that does	00:43
xdanger	jsconsole got: Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'apply' of undefined	00:44
@preaction_	missing a function maybe?	00:44
xdanger	how?	00:44
xdanger	it's the same webgui installation =)	00:44
@preaction_	i don't know, but apply() is a method of Function	00:45
xdanger	we'll with 3.4 tinymce it works	00:46
@preaction_	that's good at least	00:47
xdanger	maybe there was an old version in my browser cache or something...	00:47
xdanger	how often do we upgrade tinymce ? or yui for that matter?	00:47
@preaction_	only when necessary, really	00:48
xdanger	dam.. I have a different webserver with mod_proxy and for some sites it server the extras folder localy and for some it proxys the webgui servers folder	00:50
xdanger	that was the problem, my extras folder was left behind for a few versions	00:50
xdanger	but, it seems that tinymce 3.4 works just dropping it in =)	00:51
xdanger	but maybe I'll stick with the webgui sanctioned version	00:51
xdanger	3.4 has a lot of fixes since 3.2.7	00:54
@preaction_	i'd stay with 3.4 personally	00:56
+perlDreamer	we're running 3.2.7 now	00:57
+perlDreamer	3.4 has a lot of fixes, but there was a user running the Debian WebGUI, with a newer TinyMCE that couldn't insert international characters correctly	00:57
xdanger	I'll have to update the translations... the new paste as plaintext is better (no popup anymore)	00:57
xdanger	perlDreamer: was there some language that didn't work? Just triend arabic and scandinavian umlauts	01:01
+perlDreamer	it's an open bug on the webgui bug tracker	01:02
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11357	01:04
+perlDreamer	slovakian characters	01:04
+perlDreamer	however, we did rule the bug irreproducible and closed it	01:05
xdanger	"TinyMCE 3.0.5 while Debian Sid ships with TinyMCE 3.2.7." that is old bug and you've upgraded since	01:07
xdanger	sorry "WebGUI ships with TinyMCE 3.0.5..."	01:08
xdanger	in 3.3: Fixed bug where Input Method for non western languages didn't work correctly.	01:09
@preaction_	sounds like we'll need to upgrade then	01:12
xdanger	debian has 3.3.8	01:16
xdanger	you could btw. include the translations for tinymce fot languages that you include in webgui	01:17
xdanger	s/fot/for/	01:18
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+perlDreamer	I can try an upgrade, but not for at least a week	01:47
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+perlDreamer	bartjo1, I have a git repo of the translations	16:56
+perlDreamer	now I just need time to change the translation server to use git system commands instead of svn	16:56
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+perlDreamer	time is going to be in short supply for a while though	16:57
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bartjol1	aah, cool	18:17
+perlDreamer	well, only cool in that there's some progress, not that it's done yet	18:17
bartjol1	progress is good	18:17
bartjol1	but, I have to go	18:19
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+perlDreamer	argh!	20:35
+perlDreamer	wretched style designers	20:35
+perlDreamer	I will find you and grind your lousy laptops into dust!	20:35
@preaction_	derp?	20:36
sbaur	glad I'm not one	20:36
+perlDreamer	I've spent 1 hour trying to debug a code issue with Search	20:36
+perlDreamer	when it's the hacked up search box in a style template	20:36
@preaction_	ah, fun	20:38
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+perlDreamer	time for lunch in PDX-land	21:04
+perlDreamer	bbiaw	21:04
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scrottie0	here too my stomach is telling me	21:15
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Haarg	thank you internet explorer for caching xhr requests no matter what headers are set, even if the method changes.	23:19
+perlDreamer	nice one	23:20
+perlDreamer	is that all IE's?	23:20
Haarg	ie8 is what i'm testing	23:20
Haarg	my favorite part is that it will give me the cached response to a GET request when making a POST request. even though POST requests can't be cached by spec.	23:34
+perlDreamer	well, technically it didn't cache a POST	23:37
+perlDreamer	it cached a GET	23:37
+perlDreamer	at the risk of furthering my bigotry	23:37
+perlDreamer	it's classic Microsoft reinterpretation of rules	23:37
+perlDreamer	like that UTF-8 URL encoding thing	23:38
+perlDreamer	if it encodes through the UI, why not the backend?	23:38
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+perlDreamer	what the heck is s7.addthis.com ?	00:34
+perlDreamer	and why is it interrupting all my browsering?	00:34
sbaur	dns cache poisoning?	00:35
+perlDreamer	it's the thing that adds the little bookmark app to a page	00:38
+perlDreamer	and apparently s7.addthis.com is hung or something	00:38
sbaur	It's possible I've been reading too much security stuff recently...	00:39
scrottie0	I think addthis is a company that gives other site operators a little "share this on facebook! share this on twitter!" toolbar to put on their site, and datamines, sets cookies and tracks end users using it	00:42
scrottie0	at least that's the conclusion I reached when I actually looked at it	00:43
+perlDreamer	yeah, that's what I think too	00:45
+perlDreamer	and apparently, both webgui.org and dev.mysql.com use it	00:45
+perlDreamer	which sucks, since s7.addthis.com is not working	00:45
+perlDreamer	and the page won't render otherwise	00:45
+perlDreamer	maybe I can block it!	00:45
* scrottie0 runs NoScript by default		00:46
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--- Log opened Thu Mar 17 01:37:46 2011
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--- Log opened Thu Mar 17 03:47:45 2011
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+danny_mk	Good day	16:14
+danny_mk	I am having a bit of trouble getting WebGUI8 from github.	16:16
+danny_mk	if I do a git branch I can see that WebGUI8 is my current branch	16:16
+danny_mk	when I try doing a "git pull" I get "You asked me to pull without telling me which branch you..." blah blah blah...	16:17
+danny_mk	not having time to become a git master I thought one of you could give me a quick hint on how to get a current version of WebGUI8	16:18
+danny_mk	I use SVN and CVS, git is a little elusive at this time	16:18
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scrottie0	hi danny_mk	16:52
scrottie0	you want something like git branch webgui8 -r origin/webgui8	16:52
scrottie0	and yeah, git is highly idiomatic.	16:53
scrottie0	it also does the least amount of work necessary so if you often have to tell it to do things. in this case, you're creating a branch and telling it to set that branch to track a remote branch.	16:53
scrottie0	then you can git checkout webgui8, git pull, git push	16:54
+danny_mk	fatal: -a and -r options to 'git branch' do not make sense with a branch name	16:54
scrottie0	oh. hang on.	16:54
scrottie0	sorry, -t, not -r	16:54
scrottie0	for --track	16:54
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* scrottie0 waves to perlDreamer		16:54
+danny_mk	fatal: A branch named 'webgui8' already exists.	16:55
+perlDreamer	scrottie0! You're up early today	16:55
scrottie0	I'm usually up early. I'm just not online for a bit.	16:55
scrottie0	I'm going to make breakfast and feed chickens in a few here.	16:55
+perlDreamer	git checkout -b webgui8 --track origin/WebGUI8	16:55
+danny_mk	fatal: git checkout: branch webgui8 already exists	16:56
+perlDreamer	git branch -a	16:56
+perlDreamer	and see if you have one already	16:56
+danny_mk	* WebGUI8	16:56
+danny_mk	remotes/origin/WebGUI8	16:56
+danny_mk	I am assuming you only want to see those two entries	16:56
+perlDreamer	git checkout -b --track webgui8 origin/WebGUI8	16:57
scrottie0	... or at least I don't admit to being around, quite often.	16:57
+danny_mk	fatal: git checkout: updating paths is incompatible with switching branches.	16:57
+danny_mk	I am starting to hate git :\	16:58
+danny_mk	well, until I learn it :-)	16:58
+danny_mk	maybe a quick intro to answer questions during the next WUC would be in order	16:59
scrottie0	perhaps delete your existing webgui8 branch unless you can checkout it and pull in it and see WG8 there	17:00
scrottie0	unless perlDreamer is working on a command for you and wants us to hold off	17:00
* perlDreamer is tapped and on the phone		17:00
+danny_mk	OK, deleting	17:01
+danny_mk	alright starting with a clean slate	17:01
+danny_mk	first step: git clone https://github.com/plainblack/webgui.git	17:02
scrottie0	did you rm -rf the directory or just git branch -d? hoping the latter ;)	17:02
scrottie0	but up to you	17:02
scrottie0	okay	17:02
+danny_mk	nah, starting from scratch	17:02
scrottie0	okay, I was wrong about the name... there's webgui-7.9 and then there's WebGUI8	17:03
scrottie0	git branch WebGUI8 -t origin/WebGUI8 # seems to be working for me	17:04
+danny_mk	git branch -a	17:04
scrottie0	then git checkout WebGUI8 # does the pull	17:04
+danny_mk	* master	17:04
scrottie0	git branch -r # should show WebGUI8 on the remote side	17:04
scrottie0	or -a	17:04
+danny_mk	Switched to a new branch 'WebGUI8'	17:05
scrottie0	for what it's worth, any time docs or people say "just do this command in git", it never seems to work for me. I learned git but corner people who knew it better than I did and harassing them until they managed to come up with a command that worked and then going back and trying to figure out why that worked when the others didn't.	17:06
scrottie0	er, by cornering people	17:06
scrottie0	git can get itself in a fantastic number of states.	17:06
scrottie0	er, learned what I know of git.	17:07
+danny_mk	OK, I will buy you a few beers if I am ever at the same place	17:07
scrottie0	haha, awesome.	17:07
+danny_mk	make sure you remind me as I am quick to forget what I say :-P	17:08
scrottie0	creating little git repos from gist.github.com is a lot of fun, though. I have a few mini apps that live inside gist ;)	17:08
scrottie0	the only thing I will ever remember about you is that you owe me a beer. I hope you're happy =\|	17:08
+danny_mk	LOL	17:09
+danny_mk	scrottie0: Thank you for your help, got a working copy now.	17:13
scrottie0	glad to hear. no problem.	17:14
scrottie0	are you hacking on WebGUI8 or trying to deploy it?	17:14
+danny_mk	now if I could just get Image::Magick installed on my Mac that would be great!	17:14
scrottie0	that's a dep that we'd all like to go away...	17:15
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+danny_mk	what are the options?	17:15
+danny_mk	it is a great tool	17:15
scrottie0	someone was saying Cairo but I don't know the options well... I like to use NetPBM ;)	17:15
+perlDreamer	I love Ubuntu, but this kernel upgrade every week thing is getting old	17:21
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plainhao	danny_mk: bash < <( curl https://github.com/maddox/magick-installer/raw/master/magick-installer.sh )	21:11
+danny_mk	plainhao: did you actually get it to compile using that script?	21:12
plainhao	yep	21:12
plainhao	the sudo installation step will prompt you for your admin password	21:12
plainhao	so run it under a user with sudo privs	21:13
+danny_mk	OK, I will give that a try, been working on this installation for the last 4 hrs	21:13
plainhao	the only reason i can think of where it might barf is if you had macports previously install junk for you	21:14
plainhao	but i recently switched whole-hog to homebrew, macports was causing all kinds of badness for me	21:14
+danny_mk	I installed ImageMagick no problem but having all kinds of problems installing PerlMagick, hopefully this script will help	21:15
+danny_mk	running it now	21:15
scrottie0	are you using the wre...?	21:17
+danny_mk	Nope	21:18
plainhao	why not? :)	21:18
+danny_mk	running WebGUI8 on my Mac, on the rest of the systems I do use the WRE	21:18
scrottie0	if you were, I'd ask you some questions about how you were building things.	21:19
scrottie0	that's all.	21:19
scrottie0	feel free to comment on how you're building things anyway though.	21:19
scrottie0	my Mac knowledge is limited.	21:19
+danny_mk	so is mine but I am learning, just got this system in Dec	21:19
ckotil	i bet that was a pain to build webgui8 from source not using hte wre.	21:20
+danny_mk	I am more of a Linux guy	21:20
scrottie0	yeah, extrapolating from what I know about building stuff on Linux, I'm guessing ExtUtils::MakeMaker would likely need to be pointed at the libs and headers to get the Perl module to build against the shared library	21:21
+danny_mk	I never ran into major problems even when I did not use the WRE	21:21
+danny_mk	I actually installed it without WRE on one of our main servers because the "DBA" did not want to give me root access	21:21
+danny_mk	just installed mysql, configured apache and did the virtual host in apache thing	21:22
scrottie0	locally, I have source installs of apache, mysql, perl, etc that I develop against when I am developing locally.	21:24
+danny_mk	Can't load '/Users/daniel/Downloads/ImageMagick-6.6.7-7/PerlMagick/blib/arch/auto/Image/Magick/Magick.bundle' for module Image::Magick: dlopen(/Users/daniel/Downloads/ImageMagick-6.6.7-7/PerlMagick/blib/arch/auto/Image/Magick/Magick.bundle, 2): Symbol not found: _AcquireCacheView	21:40
+danny_mk	Failed 27/27 test programs. 27/27 subtests failed.	21:41
+danny_mk	Why can't I ever catch a break?	21:41
plainhao	wow	21:41
plainhao	clear your LD_LIBRARY_PATH	21:41
plainhao	check your environment, eliminate any path variables that might confuse the installation	21:42
+danny_mk	;ainhao: http://pastebin.com/Df1qefQe	21:47
+danny_mk	plainhao: http://pastebin.com/WmQ5rrQR	21:49
+danny_mk	look at both of those	21:49
plainhao	looks like you're using macports	21:50
plainhao	danny_mk: are you having trouble with perlmagick only?	21:52
+danny_mk	yes	21:52
+danny_mk	everything else works fine	21:52
+danny_mk	its just perlmagick	21:52
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+danny_mk	plainhao: sorry, got disconnected	21:59
+danny_mk	suggestions?	21:59
plainhao	danny_mk, try this: http://pastebin.com/x8sDEzcS	22:01
plainhao	i just noticed the without-perl option in the earlier script i forwarded	22:02
scrottie0	one suggestion, if all else fails, is grab the WRE sources and see what the build script does.	22:05
@preaction_	grab the WRE source from github, not from the tarball. the tarball is extremely out of date	22:08
+danny_mk	plainhao: http://pastebin.com/4FdrfEUJ	22:08
@preaction_	er... that's your system perl, no?	22:09
+danny_mk	yes	22:10
+danny_mk	plackup uses: #!/usr/bin/perl	22:12
+danny_mk	hmmm... Image::Magick seems to be fine when I use /opt/local/bin/perl	22:15
plainhao	probably both were built using /opt/local libraries	22:17
+danny_mk	OK, too many perl binaries on the system, may have to break down and install WRE	22:17
+danny_mk	really did not want to go that route but may be easiest option at this point	22:17
scrottie0	make sure that you're running the Makefile.PL with the perl whose lib you want to install the module into and everything should be fine	22:19
scrottie0	other than I remember Doug having some problems with library search path for shared libraries on OSX.	22:19
+danny_mk	syntax error at testEnvironment.pl line 441, near "$answer ~"	22:22
+danny_mk	trying to just run testPerl with /opt/local/bin/perl generates that error	22:22
+danny_mk	hmmm... I think I will just do all my webgui stull on a linux system, I will limit Perl development on the Mac for stuff that I can run without problems	22:24
+danny_mk	stull = stuff	22:25
scrottie0	mmm, what does /opt/local/bin/perl -v say?	22:26
+danny_mk	This is perl, v5.8.9 built for darwin-2level	22:27
scrottie0	$answer ~~ @answers ... that's awesome and great, but testEnvironment needs a 'use v5.010;'	22:28
scrottie0	let's do that now. whee!	22:28
scrottie0	~~ is a 5.10 feature	22:28
+danny_mk	AH!!!	22:29
+danny_mk	hmmm.... failAndExit("Please upgrade to 5.8 or later! Cannot continue without Perl 5.8 or higher.");	22:30
+danny_mk	shouldn't that be updated?	22:30
scrottie0	yeah.	22:30
@preaction_	in 8, yes	22:30
CIA-68	webgui: root WebGUI8 * rdf31c13 / sbin/testEnvironment.pl : some naughty creature started using smartmatch so now the floodgates are open. unless someone closes them again. check for perl 5.10 instead of 5.8. - http://bit.ly/dS22N2	22:38
scrottie0	great. I committed as root.	22:38
+danny_mk	thanks for all your help guys, have to reboot my system.	22:38
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+perlDreamer	frontier has a big boo-boo	22:57
+perlDreamer	networkin in oregon is badly broken	22:57
+perlDreamer	random sites are being blocked	23:01
+perlDreamer	like that bookmarking place from yesterday	23:01
+perlDreamer	paypal	23:01
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+danny_mk	Not really sure I am liking this Mac as a development system. I have problems with Padre and many other assorted Perl stuff	23:16
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plainhao	danny_mk: you could run linux on it instead?	23:39
+danny_mk	yes I could do that too	23:39
@preaction_	ubuntu works quite well on macs last i tried	23:39
+danny_mk	you mean virtual system or actually replacing the Mac OS with ubuntu?	23:40
@preaction_	dual-booting OSX / Ubuntu	23:40
@preaction_	you have to dual-boot because OSX is the only thing that can do firmware updates	23:40
* sbaur is confused again		23:42
sbaur	on a 7.5.40 site, I'm trying to change the page users can go to for recovering passwords	23:43
sbaur	the page is reached by op=auth;method=recoverPassword	23:43
sbaur	now it seemed to me that that page's template should be chosen by the template in the settings for "Password Recovery Template"	23:44
sbaur	but I make a change there, and it doesn't seem to effect the form users see,	23:44
sbaur	or, I'm a dufus and didn't click save	23:45
sbaur	grrr	23:45
+perlDreamer	could also be in an uncommitted version tag	23:46
+perlDreamer	that's another popular one	23:46
sbaur	I think when I committed the version tag for the change, i just assumed it would work, not realizing, that it was on the default template and I'd changed a copy	23:46
sbaur	s/realizing/remembering/	23:47
--- Day changed Fri Mar 18 2011
@preaction_	that might be a compliment, most of the time that does Just Work	00:00
@preaction_	for assets, at least	00:00
@preaction_	we might be able to do some crazy stuff so it works on settings too	00:00
+perlDreamer	yeah	00:01
+perlDreamer	too many ops/funcs etc	00:01
@preaction_	given a template namespace and a URL to find a definition()-like sub, we can do it	00:01
@preaction_	for settings though, a template namespace would do it	00:02
+perlDreamer	the secret is to set "goBackToPage"	00:02
+perlDreamer	that oughta do it	00:02
@preaction_	yeah, i wrote that bit for the assets	00:02
@preaction_	but it'd have to be fixed for Settings	00:02
+perlDreamer	you know, this is a quick read through	00:03
+perlDreamer	but it should work	00:03
+perlDreamer	already	00:03
+perlDreamer	uh, no	00:03
+perlDreamer	grrr	00:03
@preaction_	yeah, last i knew it specifically got an asset	00:04
+perlDreamer	Settings has a definition though	00:04
@preaction_	it would have to grep for op=editSettings, grab the settings definition, look for the template, fail to find it, look in Auth's editUserSettingsForm, fail to find it, look in Account's editUserSettingsForm, fail to find it, etc...	00:05
+perlDreamer	this just means that our introspection capabilities suck	00:05
+perlDreamer	or	00:05
+perlDreamer	no, it means they suck	00:06
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+perlDreamer	frodwith, have you ever tested Fork from an Asset with a UTF-8 URL, using IE?	02:10
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ekennedy	I'm trying to modify the definition of an existing WebGUI Asset. I've update the labels on a couple of fields and restarted modperl, however, the changes are not displayed on the objects edit screen. I would think it isn't be loaded but if I include an invalid statement in the code it fails with a compilation error when I try to view the object. Any suggestions why I might not see my changes to the object?	03:42
@preaction_	ekennedy: did you edit the asset code directly?	03:45
@preaction_	what asset exactly?	03:45
ekennedy	Yes. It is a custom Sku asset.	03:45
@preaction_	dunno. pastebin code perhaps?	03:47
ekennedy	Would you expect that it could be related to the setting of "autoGenerateForms"?	03:50
@preaction_	it could be, sure	03:50
ekennedy	Let me look at that. Funny thing is that the hover help and labels match what was originally in the code. I'll poke around some more. Thanks for the input.	03:51
@preaction_	browser cache?	03:51
ekennedy	I've restarted modperl, cleared the webgui cache, and the browser cache.	03:52
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+bartjol	anyone wanna listen to my music open network stream http://host294.procolix.com:8000/usr/share/icecast2/wev/razo.ogg	18:21
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sbaur	in the password recovery template, (in 7.5.40 at least) there is a <tmpl_var recoverMessage> defined. How do I add something into this var? I searched the wiki without finding anything, and if it's in the help somewhere, it's not under password or recover.	19:08
scrottie0	how do you add to the var...?	19:09
scrottie0	whatever asset or account plugin that displays that template sets it...	19:09
sbaur	where can I supply text for it. If it's a var, seems like it should be coming from somewhere	19:09
sbaur	I edit it from settings	19:09
scrottie0	what url brings this page up?	19:10
sbaur	any url with op=auth;method=recoverPassword in the query string	19:10
sbaur	seems like something was created on the backend that was never implemented on the front end, but, i'm not sure :)	19:13
scrottie0	entirely possible...	19:13
scrottie0	that kicks execution to WebGUI::Operation::Auth which kicks execution to WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI (probably; nothing else defines a the recoverPassword method)... that kicks over to one of two methods, www_emailRecoverPassword being one of them... it takes an optional argument and if it gets it, it sets that template variable to it.	19:16
scrottie0	nothing that calls it sets that argument.	19:16
scrottie0	around line 868 in WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI is this: $vars->{'recoverMessage'} = $_[0] if ($_[0]);	19:16
scrottie0	making that come from settings would probably make more sense.	19:17
sbaur	were you checking in current codebase or 7.5.40? just so i know if I should file a bug, or if I need to do more research first	19:17
scrottie0	current	19:18
sbaur	kewl, thanks	19:18
scrottie0	no problem. it's probably the same in yours but it would be a good idea to look.	19:18
sbaur	it's not a huge deal, I'll just add text into the template. But it seems like a nice to have :-)	19:19
scrottie0	most likely, the current design was intended for subclasses to override the method and add that... hrm.	19:19
scrottie0	editing the template directly would make sense.	19:19
* sbaur wishing I didn't have to commit changes to the password recovery template to test them -- waiting for my template preview backport		19:21
scrottie0	I want the template diff feature!	19:22
sbaur	that would be awesome	19:24
scrottie0	http://blog.reddit.com/2011/03/why-reddit-was-down-for-6-of-last-24.html # replication can fail in Postgres too... if your SAN malfunctions and loses writes.	20:29
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sbaur	scrottie0: looks like that tmpl var is used by the code if someone puts in a bad address. That's where the "We have no record of a user matching the information you have given" gets displayed	22:10
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scrottie0	ah. okay, I was sloppy, as usual. one of the calls to that function does set it.	01:02
sbaur	I can't say it was named in a way to make that obvious, but oh well, I guess I can't have everything after all	01:03
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SDuensin	Morning.	15:45
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scrottie0	yarrrrrrrrrr.	19:35
@preaction_	yo ho me heartie!	19:39
sbaur	preaction_: The file you asked me to email is at http://pastebin.com/GqLk4H7r . When I tried to email it, it was rejected as spam. go figure :-/	20:14
sbaur	everyone.net just hates me...	20:15
@preaction_	sbaur: thanks, i'll get this to them	20:17
sbaur	thanks, and OMG is it annoying	20:17
sbaur	thank goodness for IRC	20:17
@preaction_	did any more logwatches get marked as spam?	20:18
@preaction_	or rather, did the ones after this one make it to you?	20:18
sbaur	nope, that seems to have been the last one	20:19
sbaur	but, they were making it to me fine, they just weren't making it to you and colin	20:20
scrottie0	I have on my (personal) todo list to make an anti-spam-filter message encoding format to submit to the IETF as a standard.	20:34
scrottie0	using a few dozen "safe" words such as meeting, office, carpool, billables and so forth, it would encode arbitrary messages.	20:34
scrottie0	I worked for a company for quite a while doing video slots and video poker machines for the Vegas market. they outsourced email to Yahoo!. damned heck if we could ever get an email message through there.	20:35
@preaction_	sigh, why is outsourced email only slightly less stupid and less work than hosting your own	20:36
scrottie0	I was away from the computer all weekend... was starting to think this morning that I wouldn't be caught up on email until Wednesday.	20:36
scrottie0	now I'm hungry and haven't accomplished a single damn thing.	20:37
@preaction_	wow, you must get more e-mail than i do	20:37
scrottie0	you'd think that these email companies would figure out that if they get a message back with an Message-Id, and it's to the person who sent the email that they generated the Message-Id for, and they haven't seen that Message-Id more than a few times, it PROBABLY isn't spam.	20:38
scrottie0	er a message-id they generated	20:38
@preaction_	or if the address the message is from has sent daily messages for 6 years and never been marked as spam?	20:39
scrottie0	... or other simple stats like that, yeah.	20:39
scrottie0	email volume is temporary and related to a number of projects all starting at the same time.	20:40
@preaction_	i prefer openbsd's spamd approach: greylist, tell them to try back in 4 hours, if they try back sooner, or don't try back within 48, blacklist them and set their bandwidth to 1bps	20:40
scrottie0	as well as dangling nits from recent performance upgrades.	20:40
scrottie0	greymilter, yeah.	20:40
@preaction_	ah yes, i still have to set up proper monitoring of the slave situation	20:40
scrottie0	that kind of runs afoul of my experimental sendmail replacement, which doesn't queue anything. it sits there trying to deliver it, and if it fails, it spits out all of the errors on stderr, which mutt faithfully displays to the user.	20:41
@preaction_	but the slaves haven't desynced, which means the problem there is fixed	20:41
@preaction_	yeah, temporary fails have to be handled :p	20:41
scrottie0	I haven't implemented this yet, but ultimately, I want my sendmail replacement to attempt to deliver by authenticated IMAPS signons on the mail provider the mail was sent from... so it would take a list of accounts... google, yahoo, work, etc, etc... if you mail someone with a gmail account, it signs in there and emails locally rather than ever touching SMTP, if it can avoid it.	20:43
scrottie0	sure the sender address might change but who cares.	20:43
scrottie0	personal email was backlogged too.	20:44
scrottie0	I've got something for you... just one minute...	20:44
@preaction_	has anyone tested WebGUI with LWP 6? I keep hearing horror stories about the new stricter SSL requirements	21:48
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scrottie0	stricker SSL requirements? it actually checks the cert now?	21:54
scrottie0	stricter?	21:54
@preaction_	it requires the certs have a chain of trust, yeah	21:55
scrottie0	well, I hope they deprected the slop mode, but otherwise, sounds good	21:56
@preaction_	i think there's a flag to restore the old mode	21:57
Haarg	there's an env var that can be set so it doesn't do the certificate checks, and if you don't install some additional modules it doesn't have the CAs to check against.	22:03
@preaction_	but afaik if you don't have the CAs, it just fails out period	22:03
Haarg	if you install IO::Socket::SSL and Mozilla::CA it should work fine for any properly configured host	22:03
@preaction_	even self-signed?	22:04
Haarg	no	22:12
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CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r5e6483e / (4 files in 4 dirs): add lineage increment_step and _offset for multi-master DB clusters - http://bit.ly/hcDYGm	01:27
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CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r2a519d5 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Group.pm): change group INSERT to REPLACE to prevent merge problems in multi-master DB clusters - http://bit.ly/eKpisj	01:50
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r0e48d22 / (2 files in 2 dirs): add 12078 Add alt tag to default Image template - http://bit.ly/hvSR05	01:57
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CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r5f090fe / (2 files in 2 dirs):	02:27
CIA-74	webgui: fix 12077 Carousel update not possible	02:27
CIA-74	webgui: We have to make sure the TinyMCE updates the underlying	02:27
CIA-74	webgui: textarea before we grab the text from it - http://bit.ly/dVkLkQ	02:27
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@preaction_	CIA-74: you like spam don't you?	02:29
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@preaction_	er... how is t/Storage/utf8_filenames.t testing utf-8 filenames? the \x sequences are below chr(256), and perldoc perluniintro says that those are converted to 8-bit characters	03:26
@preaction_	i have a test failure where the ? is converted to something that looks exactly like it, but is apparently a different character	03:27
@preaction_	i would not doubt that OSX is doing it on me...	03:29
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scrottie0	how much should I be afraid of rebuildLineage.pl ?	03:58
@preaction_	not very, but do not run it while users are allowed to add things to the site	04:00
@preaction_	it's got built-in sanity checks, it tries to make sure it can actually rebuild before it goes	04:00
@preaction_	makes sure there's no circular references, and will put any orphans in a nice place	04:00
@preaction_	but make a backup anyway	04:01
* scrottie0 nods		04:01
@preaction_	i will admit that last Monday morning when I ran it on alumni, i did not make a backup, but I do not recommend that I repeat my actions ;)	04:01
scrottie0	some days we wear asbestos long johns, some days we wear chaps.	04:02
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r35811a2 / t/Asset/File/Image.t : fix image rotate test to really test if it was rotated, not just "changed" - http://bit.ly/gEKVI7	04:05
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r906fa4a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/rebuildLineage.pl): try to reconnect to the DB if rebuildLineage.pl takes a long time - http://bit.ly/f0jtC4	04:05
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * rcdda20f / t/Storage/utf8_filenames.t :	04:05
CIA-74	webgui: add better diag and fix test.	04:05
CIA-74	webgui: I think OSX is altering the UTF-8 chars to a different codepoint on me. - http://bit.ly/eEMK41	04:05
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * rb13064b / t/Macro/FilePump.t : clean up the FilePump bundle after the test - http://bit.ly/g4tO3h	04:05
@preaction_	I think CIA-74 and I agree that I have been a busy little bee today!	04:06
scrottie0	preaction_++	04:12
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CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r29b2b49 / docs/create.sql : preparing for 7.10.12 release - http://bit.ly/e5rSTl	05:18
-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.9.24-stable \| 7.10.12-beta \| WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com		05:58
+Radix_	I keep updating the topic.. but one of these days I need to upgrade our webserver from 7.0.8-stable	06:03
+Radix_	Assets: 7174, Packages: 3, Templates: 289, Active Sessions: 1010, Users: 17976, Groups: 2340	06:04
@preaction_	oh wow	06:04
@preaction_	that shouldn't be too bad	06:04
@preaction_	but wow, that's a bit old man ;)	06:04
+Radix_	haha	06:04
+Radix_	it's still working well - we've had no reason to change it or do anything with it	06:04
@preaction_	that's good at least	06:05
+Radix_	we update it for every software release.. and got users signing up for free academic versions and customers logging in for updates and whatnot all the time	06:05
@preaction_	and if you're using Calendar in particular, there might be some unwelcome changes	06:05
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * rcd425b9 / (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.10.13 dev - http://bit.ly/gtC9Zu	06:05
@preaction_	they're good changes, and they're fine changes, and together we're getting over this bad patch!	06:06
@preaction_	AIE! The wound again!	06:06
+Radix_	nah, don't use calendar	06:06
@preaction_	then it's all additions, nothing really evil	06:06
@preaction_	you'll pardon my question, but what is your business again?	06:06
+Radix_	but I know all the assets will need to be revamped.. and we have some custom code for adding users via script	06:06
@preaction_	that shouldn't be affected, the custom user script at least	06:07
@preaction_	unless you're not using the API, then maybe	06:07
+Radix_	https://www.formsys.com/ - We develop CAD/CAM for the marine and structural design industries	06:07
@preaction_	7.5 changed the userProfileData table schema	06:07
@preaction_	oh nice	06:07
+Radix_	nah, I used the api :)	06:07
+Radix_	err.. cad cam software I meant tot say	06:07
@preaction_	then the changes are transparent	06:08
@preaction_	Rhino3d plugin even? I used that back when I was playing around with POV-RAY	06:09
+Radix_	rhino's come along way since	06:09
@preaction_	wow, they've changed their scope immensely since then	06:09
@preaction_	but that was 12 years ago, i was freshman in high school :p	06:10
+Radix_	it's more a competitor for us now, especially with it being so cheap, but we're more focused on ship design	06:10
@preaction_	yeah, you've got the value-add for that stuff	06:10
+Radix_	for our structural stuff we even do earthquake analsysis.. but who needs that eh?	06:11
@preaction_	nobody anywhere ever, really. earthquakes are extinct like volcanoes and the dodo bird	06:11
@preaction_	i see, so this is structural testing in software. very cool	06:12
+Radix_	Yeah, checks your design against local steel design codes and generates a report, etc	06:12
+Radix_	we support all the US codes, UK, EU, etc	06:13
+Radix_	Well I'd better grab some lunch.. afk :)	06:14
@preaction_	temperature maps for simulated stresses? wow	06:14
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+danny_mk	This is probably a FAQ and I am pretty sure I have asked it before but here it goes: How does one change the "content/type" on an asset (template/Macro/Wobject).	17:56
+danny_mk	$session->http->setMimeType('application/json'); does not seem to be the right answer	17:58
+danny_mk	If I include a macro that contains that code in an article I am sure the article mime type will come before the macro sets the mime type	17:59
scrottie0	screw purl and perlbot and even screw gumbybrain... we need to talk to IBM about getting Watson in here answering questions.	18:24
scrottie0	now, you aren't sending that (perl API call to WebGUI's API) to the browser as if it were HTML/JS, are you?	18:25
scrottie0	"include a macro that contains that code"... you created a macro, right?	18:26
scrottie0	in which case, it just isn't running early enough in the request	18:26
scrottie0	and what's wrong with the text/html content type you get already?	18:27
scrottie0	you could add a <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/xml"> to the extra head tags of the asset in its properties/edit screen but that may or may not work depending on the content type you're trying to go to, how it's being used, what browsers are fetching it, and so on	18:29
scrottie0	otherwise, you need to subclass the asset	18:29
Haarg	using macros to run code as opposed to inserting or transforming text will almost certainly fail in many cases	18:29
Haarg	the way i'd generally go about returning something with a custom content type is to create a snippet, set its content type, and have it AssetProxy the content from somewhere	18:30
+danny_mk	Yes, I created a macro	18:30
+danny_mk	OK, so set the snippet content type as part of the extra head tags right?	18:31
Haarg	no, snippets can set the content type directly	18:32
+danny_mk	alright let me try that	18:33
Haarg	trying to supply a different content type for an article does seem a bit weird though. what kind of content are you actually dealing with?	18:33
+danny_mk	JSON feeding to a YUI datatable	18:33
Haarg	but the information is in an article?	18:35
+danny_mk	OK, here it goes, first things first, I wanted to make sure the json part works firts. I created a macro that returns json	18:36
+danny_mk	I placed that macro in an article, the macro works fine and does return a json string but it is displayed in the article	18:37
+danny_mk	now, I will use a snippet instead and see if that works	18:37
scrottie0	preaction has been bolting this stuff on to WebGUI... not sure if he's working on 7 or 8... adding base methods for fetching asset data as JSON and updating it and creating assets from spec... you might talk to him about beta testing his work	18:38
Haarg	ok. yeah, a snippet is what you want for that kind of thing. it will let you set the content type, and will serve content directly without wrapping it in a style template.	18:38
+danny_mk	OK, trying the snippet	18:39
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+danny_mk	Excellent, looks good so far. Thanks for your help.	18:52
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scrottie0	heya pbcj. how goes stuff?	19:51
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ckotil	is there a newbie guide to creating content using the article asset, or something better so that it is easy for a new user (or me) to upload an image to the site with a SEO url? Id like to be able to then reuse the image elsewhere. ive been using webgui for a few years now and this simple task eludes me.	21:01
ckotil	the upload image form for the article asset just inserts a link to the image. doesnt let you (easily) integrate the image into the article asse.t	21:01
ckotil	and the insert webgui image button in the richeditor is no good because the user first has to upload the image into the media folder, or wherever	21:01
@preaction_	most of the people i know have multiple folders they upload images to before using them with Article	21:12
ckotil	that's what we do now. but my users hate it	21:12
@preaction_	but what you describe is one of the major problems I have with webgui as a CMS (specifically, as my personal blog)	21:12
ckotil	citing, too many clicks	21:12
ckotil	yeah.	21:12
@preaction_	you do realize that URLs do not get parsed for keywords, right? SEO does not apply	21:13
@preaction_	also, using the short URL causes a performance decrease right now, because we have not yet implemented X-Sendfile	21:13
@preaction_	so it has to Redirect, which takes more effort than the /uploads URL	21:13
ckotil	yeah, and that's OK. bc the benefits of the SEO, at least when using the file asset outweigh's the performance hit.	21:14
ckotil	its great to use a single URL that will never go away. just update the file asset with your new image , and you're all set.	21:14
@preaction_	right, but I just mentioned that SEO does not apply here	21:14
@preaction_	and yes, that works to a point, but there are site performance optimizations that work best when the image URL changes if the URL itself changes: setting 10-year cache times, for example	21:15
@preaction_	i do want to fix the number of clicks it takes to attach an image to a Rich Text Editor, but because it's difficult, not because of SEO	21:15
@preaction_	the image will still be added using an /uploads URL, unless someone also gets to implementing X-Sendfile, which removes the performance problem, then we may try going back to using the asset URL for normal cases	21:16
ckotil	i think that change alone would really help webgui's acceptance among the 'easy to use' CMSs	21:17
@preaction_	the abnormal cases being the 10-year cache times	21:17
@preaction_	i agree ten thousand percent, i even know how i want to do it. if i can get to it is another matter entirely	21:17
ckotil	yeah.	21:17
@preaction_	i imagine a WebGUI article that knows every file attached to it, every file is an asset, and you can quickly search and filter all attachments to all assets to find the one you want	21:18
ckotil	that sounds like a winner to me.	21:18
@preaction_	i sometimes lump any random URL into the "attachments" boat, and now i even forgot what I thought that was brilliant at the time	21:18
ckotil	heh	21:18
@preaction_	probably having to do with the Related Links area of the Event asset and getting rid of it for something more uniform	21:19
@preaction_	because what is a Related Link but an Attachment as a URL instead of as a file. WebGUI could even precache that URL, if it's an image or file and not an html page, and show that to the user instead of the link	21:19
@preaction_	ah yes, that was it	21:19
ckotil	ah. too much emphasize on performance and not enough on ease of use	21:20
@preaction_	no, the ease of use bit is this: User enters a URL for a file, WebGUI grabs that file, makes a file asset, and attaches it to the Article	21:22
@preaction_	no uploading required there	21:22
ckotil	ok, so it is easy. just not flexible.	21:23
@preaction_	uploading is still possible of course, but if the file is already out on the web, the Internet is going to be much faster than your random residential internet	21:23
@preaction_	huh? that's just the URL bit, the normal files work exactly as they would	21:23
@preaction_	there would be a sidebar on the right side of the Rich Text Editor that says Attachments. There'd be two tabs or something: One for "This Asset" other for "All Assets", there'd be a text box to filter by keyword, and clicking would add the file in some way to the editor	21:24
@preaction_	then at the bottom there'd be a way to add new, by either URL or upload	21:24
ckotil	yeah but to uplaod your own image to the system requires you to leave the edit article interface, create a file asset, uplaod the image. then go back to your article asset and reference the new file asset. tedious.	21:24
ckotil	oh this is your vision for the way it will work. not the way it currently works. i missed that part.	21:25
@preaction_	right	21:25
ckotil	yeah, that sounds very useful. we need it!	21:26
ckotil	I wonder if my group uses webgui differently than anyone else? we have the public facing web stuff that everyone has, but also inline with that , there's a documentation system. Documentation that needs to be accompanied by images or even video become difficult to manage currently. because of too many clicks, and organizing said images and video to be referenced from the article/layout asset.	21:27
ckotil	the biggest pitfall of our current system is that it requires training for anyone to use it well.	21:28
@preaction_	our two biggest clients (well, one, in two departments) use Kristi extensively for personal training. I use her for ideas and finding newbie hangups	21:29
ckotil	we're updating our website/doc system requirements right now. the big questions we have yet to answer are do we keep the combined website/doc system? (most likely) and, is there anything out there that will make creating documentation easier than webgui.	21:30
ckotil	im advocating sticking with webgui , and overhauling our templates to make it easier for users to manage documentation.	21:31
ckotil	it's gonna be tough.	21:31
@preaction_	all the PB books that we've updated over the years are now available for free from http://webgui.org/user-guides	21:31
ckotil	yeah, but users have to read 'em.	21:32
@preaction_	you're going to get that with any system, really	21:32
@preaction_	but i will always be interested in ideas to make everything more intuitive	21:33
@preaction_	8, for example, has a far more intuitive approval/versiontag system	21:33
ckotil	ive done my best at abstracting away all of the webgui admin console qwerks. all of the 'add content' links are in the style templates. which then take you to the edit article/layout/file/whatever interfaces. but it's thins like having to add a file first, then add the article to reference that file which makes the system difficult to use	21:34
@preaction_	in 8, the admin console and the asset edit page will be templatable, so that may help you out	21:35
ckotil	and for the version tag approval system, we use, no approval, just direct commits. and when there is a tag a user must commit. i throw up a huge 'COMMIT ME NOW!' button at hte top of the page. then emails go out after a week with an approval URL if they forget.	21:35
@preaction_	though i will say that avoiding the AC entirely is not really going to help me make it better :p	21:35
ckotil	i use the AC all time. love it.	21:35
@preaction_	there is an Auto Commit Immediately mode now, or doesn't that work for your purposes?	21:35
ckotil	well we like the commit messages	21:36
ckotil	have an rss feed on that to keep up with changes	21:36
@preaction_	you can still have commit messages with autocommit, webgui just puts them right on the commit message screen	21:36
@preaction_	at least it should, in the most recent version	21:37
ckotil	ah. i see commit automaticall. but we're doing multiple per user.	21:37
@preaction_	8 goes one step further: no more version tag modes, if you can approve content, you pick if the content is approved for commit right there as you save it	21:37
ckotil	the versioning stuff has been working out well. no big complaints there.	21:38
@preaction_	multiple per user is the "default" version tag mode, the old one	21:38
ckotil	and we've even leveraged the approval workflow to manage weekly reports for various things. report is submitted to webgui via the api (well a cgi script), then a tag is created , emails go out, and users must approve the tag before it gets commited.	21:39
@preaction_	on another note: our e-mail provider told me I am not allowed to have a log sent via e-mail to tell me that some forbidden domain has tried to spam me, because that log telling me that the forbidden domain is spamming me is itself marked as spam	21:39
ckotil	heh	21:39
ckotil	whitelist it?	21:40
@preaction_	actually, yes, 8's Admin interface will help you a bit	21:40
@preaction_	that is what I asked them to do, and that was their response to me	21:40
ckotil	yeah, any improvement to the approval/versioning would be good. tho the current system works nicely	21:41
@preaction_	i wish more people shared your opinion of it :p	21:42
@preaction_	but the templating of the edit screen and the asset helpers should assist you as well	21:42
ckotil	cool	21:42
@preaction_	i think I made an RFE somewhere with my proposal for the Attachments thing, let me dig it up if you want to add to the discussion (of which there has probably been none)	21:42
ckotil	do you think Kristi would be able to point me to some newbie guides for adding content containing images/video?	21:43
ckotil	k	21:43
ckotil	i think since ive been using webgui for 3 years now , my method for doing simple tasks in webgui is very differnet from a new users.	21:43
@preaction_	i don't know, for all the work I do I spend very little time actually using webgui, which is why I rely on her and users like you to tell me when the UI sucks	21:46
@preaction_	as i tell everyone else, i spend 14 hours a day in a text editor	21:46
@preaction_	which reminds me, those other 2 hours are spent getting food and coffee!	21:47
ckotil	heh, do it.	21:48
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scrottie0	start to feel like this after a while? I know I do. http://slowass.net/~scott/tmp/playpen.jpg	21:51
@preaction_	yes, i tend to act out when that happens: add some bell or whistle that solves some pet peeve of mine	21:52
@preaction_	or today, i'm gonna do this: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/12079 it'll take 10 minutes, and it's a good idea	21:52
scrottie0	I meant with respect to being couped up at the computer, not hampered by WebGUI.	21:52
@preaction_	either way	21:52
@preaction_	otherwise cooking, making a big production out of it, tends to help me stay the hell away from the screen for a while	21:53
@preaction_	trying to perfect a recipe for french toast right now. needs more vanilla i think	21:55
ckotil	fyi , new webgui users. http://noc.nwave.noaa.gov/	22:01
@preaction_	ooh! we can add NOAA to our list?	22:02
ckotil	we let the NOAA web developers create the templates and everything. the intergration with the rest of sites is a little wonky, but it works OK	22:02
ckotil	Im not sure.	22:02
ckotil	I could check with the managers.	22:03
ckotil	tho, since this site is public facing, you guys could pry do a screen cap, and call it a day.	22:03
@preaction_	eh, if you have an e-mail address i can forward to tavis (sales@plainblack.com) that'd be enough. we're also usually looking for success stories and the like, though i'm not sure if his new duties allow time for that anymore	22:04
ckotil	our main site is up there. http://globalnoc.iu.edu	22:04
scrottie0	which new duties are these?	22:09
@preaction_	Project Manager	22:10
scrottie0	fg	22:10
scrottie0	fg	22:10
scrottie0	argh, curse you, ptty!	22:11
@preaction_	^Zdisown\n	22:11
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scrottie0	after extensive research, I have purchased four pieces of hardware related to skype. This is one of those "I'm going to hell for this" things.	22:16
* scrottie0 sighs		22:16
@preaction_	good wow god	22:16
scrottie0	quite often I wonder what the heck I'm doing in the technology sector.	22:16
scrottie0	I can barely operate Lego bricks.	22:16
@preaction_	join the club man	22:16
@preaction_	every cellphone anyone ever gives me just baffles me	22:17
scrottie0	I had a turn-of-the-cellphone-century Nokia with a black and white screen that worked fine but it got smashed (which is _hard_ to do) so I'm back on the Motorola phone I got because it offered GPRS tethering. It's also a dino but it's color. Miserable.	22:20
scrottie0	it's a flip phone but it has side buttons that change the ringer.	22:20
scrottie0	it's always a crap shoot whether it's super extra loud or completely off.	22:20
scrottie0	I could go on for hours for about the miserable misfeatures and general idiocy of the user interface but I'll leave it at that.	22:20
@preaction_	i might get labelled a fanboy, but the only cellphone interface i've seen and actually enjoyed was the iphone	22:21
scrottie0	I want to learn Spanish just so that I can find out why the heck I get two or three wrong numbers from Spanish speakers.	22:22
scrottie0	er, a day.	22:22
@preaction_	it's cheaper to re-use old numbers than issue new ones?	22:22
scrottie0	in general, I hate cell phones.	22:23
scrottie0	which is a major reason I don't own a nice one. if it didn't get smashed on accident, it would happen eventually on purpose. cell phones are barely above alarm clocks in my view.	22:23
@preaction_	i hate what they are becoming: the new Ma Bell, along with the most personal object people carry with them everywhere	22:24
scrottie0	yeah. I miss my two way pager. I'm always trying to figure out how I can arrange to get by with just that. it was awesome. you call an 800 number. a human picks up and transcribes the message. I get a page that isn't a mangled translation.	22:25
scrottie0	they even learned the correct capitalization of various pieces of technology I was being paged about.	22:25
scrottie0	now they have an SMS gateway running so I could text from my two way pager. all I have to do is ditch the cell!	22:26
scrottie0	and of course there's the email gateway, still.	22:27
scrottie0	if present attempts at making skype portable fail, I'll go for a cheap, small Android tablet or an iPod Touch.	22:33
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CIA-74	webgui: Chris Hanson master * r73ff2b8 / www/extras/templatePreview.js : Corrected minor javascript bug in template preview: "k is not a function" - http://bit.ly/hpvEt2	01:10
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ckotil	preaction: Kristi pointed me at the upload images in the webgui collateral image manager. this could work with a slight mod. I need to have it allow uploading of images anywhere on the site (well almost anywhere), and not just the /root/media folder.	15:27
ckotil	however , not being able to add metadata for the images uploaded via the collateral image manager is limiting.	15:28
ckotil	I may have to try and hack that in there.	15:28
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@khenn	yay back on IRC!	16:46
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sandraqu	hello. is there an session.var.AdminOff ? or a tmpl_if NOT ... ?	18:32
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@khenn	sandraqu: <tmpl_unless >	18:42
sbaur	she already left	18:42
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@khenn	ah well, I tired	18:43
@khenn	tried even	18:43
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ckotil	in WebGUI 8 with the introduction of templating the admin interfaces, will it be possible to add a metadata field ot the file pile asset? or would that require more work in the backend?	19:18
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@preaction	that'd require work on the backend	19:21
@preaction	and honestly, File Pile needs to die	19:21
ckotil	heh. k	19:21
@preaction	a better JS-based interface would probably be faster and easier and allow for extending	19:24
ckotil	and the ability to bring it inline with layour/article/etc.. assets.	19:25
@preaction	yes	19:25
@preaction	how often does one really upload files when they're not editing other content?	19:26
ckotil	depends on the audience.	19:28
ckotil	but for normal users, rarely.	19:29
ckotil	tho, the way I use webgui, i store images/files outside of /root/media, so file pile is pretty much a requirement.	19:30
ckotil	which requires first uploadng the image, then editing the image to add metadata (tags, summary, content profile fields)	19:31
@preaction	there should be a regular Image in the new content list	19:31
ckotil	make it more generic, to support other file types	19:32
ckotil	which takes you back to file pile replacement	19:32
@preaction	there should be a regular File in the new content list too	19:33
ckotil	im digging this Collateral Image Manager.	19:40
ckotil	hacking away.	19:40
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@khenn	this is a bit OT but does anyone know where you handle user input errors in a true MVC framework?	19:56
@khenn	I think it's in the controller	19:56
@khenn	but not positive	19:56
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@preaction	Model should probably bitch	20:06
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@preaction	so if the model sees bad data, it should throw and controller should catch	20:09
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elnino	is this http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/multiple-sites-/-different-webgui-versions-on-one-system explaining how to do more than one site with one mysql database?	20:19
sbaur	more or less, yes. We have that setup on one of our servers	20:23
elnino	ok that's what I thought, there are pros and cons to this, and I wanted to make sure that people understand those before making this decision.	20:23
elnino	so I wante to make sure I had the right wiki.	20:24
sbaur	though, in my mind, the bottom section of the article, about 2 versions of webgui should be it's own article	20:25
elnino	that's what I thought too, I didn't think it was realted, but in a sense it is, it's a "pro". I thought at one point there were two wikis.	20:25
elnino	so that's why I was kinda confused.	20:25
elnino	ok. I hope my pros and cons make sense. feel free to modify I tried to make sense. client has it installed this way, and I hate it!	20:34
@preaction	we could make webgui share more data between sites	20:36
@preaction	like users, settings, workflows, etc...	20:36
elnino	well, it's the urls that are the problem.	20:37
elnino	"go back home" goes to /home	20:37
@preaction	exactly	20:37
elnino	which is only for the site I'm not working on.	20:37
@preaction	so if there were two webgui sites that just shared everything except assets, there wouldn't be this problem	20:37
elnino	right. I dont' think it's worth it.	20:38
elnino	in my opinon.	20:38
@preaction	i've also thought about having a "Site" asset or something. or perhaps treating any Layout under /root as a "Home Page"	20:38
@preaction	i think there are a few other RFEs for potential solutions	20:38
elnino	I guess I really don't see the benes of sharing, unless one is doing it because they are doing a bunch of "landing pages" (ie: one page sites)	20:39
elnino	but if they are separate companies, separate products, separate content.	20:39
elnino	I see no value - at least I'm not convinced yet.	20:39
elnino	just makes one big db.	20:39
sbaur	we do it to share a userbase, and the sites are related, and structured very similarly, it's just that one is math, and the other English	20:40
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sbaur	and I use apache redirects to have diferent "home" pages for the sites	20:41
elnino	see, yep, if they are related sites I can see some benefits, but just the "go back home" link used everywhere in webgui would drive me nuts. or did you get around that some how?	20:43
* elnino goes to lunch quick		20:43
sbaur	heads to lunch too	20:44
* preaction stands alone, hi-ho-the-derry-oh		20:46
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daniel_b	Hello. Where is the git repo for webgui 8?	20:52
@preaction	it's a branch in the github, WebGUI8	20:53
daniel_b	Great, thanks.	20:53
elnino	so, sbaur, did you figure out a way to fool the "go back home" link in webgui's ui?	21:32
sbaur	the apache redirects take care of it	21:49
sbaur	and, it's only our small group that ever see it. Our users do not see most of the UI	21:50
sbaur	and very few of them see any of it	21:51
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@preaction	for anyone with working knowledge of versioning: If we change to using a "currentRevisionId" field in the asset table to choose which revision instead of a subselect MAX(revisionDate), would there be any crazy problems?	23:22
@preaction	I can't see any, except in the rare cases where MAX(revisionDate) != currentRevisionId, and then only in custom SQLReports for assets	23:23
@preaction	i'm trying to figure out the work involved, i think it would be relatively simple, but i keep doing that and getting caught in some edge cases i never expected	23:24
@preaction	reminds me, I should get rid of WaitUntil and set up a periodic task to check for post-dated version tags	23:26
scrottie0	if there are crazy problems, it's because something else is pathological and needs to be fixed.	23:30
scrottie0	I'd be curoius to hear what the edge cases are. I won't say they don't exist.	23:31
scrottie0	and, yes.	23:31
scrottie0	I think that's a rule of programming: never check every time if you can check periodically, and never check periodically if you can intercept the appriopriate event.	23:31
@preaction	it's worse: WaitUntil leaves a running workflow until the time of the tag is ready, and if it has expiration, until the tag expires	23:32
@preaction	running workflows are checked rather often by comparison to a scheduled task that can be altered to check at whatever interval you want	23:33
scrottie0	huh.	23:33
@preaction	it's an extremely artificial way of adding a delay to a commit	23:33
@preaction	and it requires the stars to align, your commit workflow to actually do the wait, etc...	23:33
@preaction	instead, any Commit workflow could say "Not time yet, fuck you, i'm quiting"	23:34
@preaction	and a later workflow could say "Bring unto me the tags who are pending commit and have past their time"	23:34
@preaction	and then run the version tag's workflow again	23:34
scrottie0	I know this is #WebGUI, but could we please talk about something else? This is making me kind of uncomfortable.	23:36
@preaction	er... so how about those Cubs?	23:38
scrottie0	I'm not sure why I keep paying money to the mafia to intimidate them so that I can bet against them without worry. It seems so unnecessary when I say it.	23:39
@preaction	eh, mafia are people too, and in chicago, they need all the money they can get	23:39
scrottie0	I wonder if the mafia does birthdays. That would be kinda awesome.	23:44
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@preaction	Let's mafia things up a bit. Joey burn down the ship. Clamps burn down the crew.	07:59
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virgomoon	I've been fighting something most of the morning that perhaps someone here can help me with. I've created a new template which seems to be working well so far, but when I turn on the Admin, all the admin functions are up at the top of the page unformatted. I noticed in one of the crystalx style files, there are 'extra' head files (some script and stylesheets, as I recall). Is there any documentation on what files I need to reference to convince the adm	19:32
virgomoon	in bar to behave?	19:32
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scrottie0	you're changing the site style? I'd suggest copying and modifying, keeping existing stuff, unless you know what it is	19:41
virgomoon	like completely copy one that is given and drop in my own css/html?	19:46
virgomoon	no, that just makes too much sense, lol	19:46
scrottie0	and take stuff out too... but only if you can figure out what it is ;)	19:46
virgomoon	yeah, let me try that route .. thx, scrottie0	19:47
scrottie0	sure.	19:47
scrottie0	let us know how it goes.	19:47
virgomoon	will do .. once I find the motivation	19:48
scrottie0	YOU CAN DO IT!	19:48
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@pbcj	besides the padre plugin, which did not cooperate too well, are there any other external asset editors?	20:54
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@preaction	wgd edit	21:06
@pbcj	heh, awesome	21:13
virgomoon	hmph .. same problem, scrottie0 .. I'm obviously doing something wrong here, lol	21:14
@preaction	virgomoon: when you turn admin on, there should be another CSS file, adminBar.css iirc	21:18
virgomoon	inserted in to the <head>?	21:18
@preaction	make that "macro/AdminBar/slidePanel.css"	21:18
@preaction	yes	21:18
virgomoon	k .. lemme poke around a sec	21:18
@preaction	that gets automatically inserted into head when the ^AdminBar; macro gets run while Admin Mode is on	21:19
@preaction	your style also needs an ^AdminBar; macro in it too	21:19
virgomoon	that, it has	21:19
@preaction	if it doesn't have one already	21:19
virgomoon	yea, I've got the ^AdminBar; in there right under <body> .. but no slidePanel.css that I'm seeing	21:20
virgomoon	in the rendered page, I mean	21:20
@preaction	is Admin Mode on?	21:20
virgomoon	yes	21:20
virgomoon	let me double-check, though	21:20
virgomoon	ya .. admin's on, but no slidebar.css	21:20
@preaction	the admin stuff won't show up at all if it's not, the AdminBar macro absolutely checks	21:20
@preaction	okay, are there any html/css errors in your style template? use the w3c's validator to check	21:21
virgomoon	would that kill the addition of the slidebar.css?	21:21
@preaction	that could, yes	21:21
virgomoon	that's possible .. let me check that	21:21
virgomoon	the site I jacked this template from had the 'transitional' xml designator, so there might be	21:22
@preaction	what would <link rel="stylesheet" href="something"<link rel="stylesheet" href="the_right_thing.css"/> <- get parsed as? who knows	21:22
@preaction	or <style type="text/css"><link...><body> <- dunno	21:22
virgomoon	I got a couple errors .. things like "there is no attribute 'color'" .. it's using a <font color+"__"> tag .. think that would break it?	21:25
@preaction	probably not, but you should most likely fix them anyway	21:25
@preaction	do you have a URL i can look at?	21:26
virgomoon	agreed	21:26
@preaction	has anyone edited to code on your site?	21:26
virgomoon	just me	21:27
virgomoon	I PMed you the link	21:27
@preaction	uh. why did you remove the <meta name="generator" from the head tags?	21:27
virgomoon	guess that's important, eh?	21:28
virgomoon	lol	21:28
@preaction	no, but some of the other stuff in there is	21:28
virgomoon	k .. let me backtrack and put the meta tags back in from the crystalX style	21:28
@preaction	iirc, in Session/Style.pm, there's a <!-- more head --> that eventually gets replaced	21:28
@preaction	no, the only way to... wait	21:29
virgomoon	k	21:29
@preaction	you need a <tmpl_var head.tags> in your style template	21:29
virgomoon	and that would've been in the original crystalX template I used?	21:29
@preaction	yes	21:29
virgomoon	so when I deleted that I dorked it up .. gotcha	21:29
virgomoon	thank you so much .. let me go poke around some	21:30
@preaction	<tmpl_var head.tags> and <tmpl_var body.content> are the two required parts of a style template	21:30
@preaction	http://www.webgui.org/design/wiki/how-to-give-webgui-your-own-style <- best resource I know of on how to do this	21:30
virgomoon	ya, I thought I'd read that thoroughly enough .. evidently not	21:31
@preaction	some of it might be out-of-date, webgui does auto-commit for you by default now	21:31
virgomoon	I should probably do it sober, though, lol	21:31
virgomoon	there is a limit to that whole Ballmer Peak thing	21:31
@preaction	yeah, i've always preferred nicotine and caffiene when coding	21:31
virgomoon	oh, that's MUCH better, lmao	21:32
@preaction	which reminds me, i gotta go find those ecig things. nicotine vaporizer, no smoke/smell, smaller health risk	21:32
virgomoon	thank you so much, preaction	21:32
ckotil	a buddy of mine was talking about the ecig recently. how there's a deal going on , its about $200 up front but you will be smoking for a few months on that supply	21:33
ckotil	'smoking' anyway	21:33
@preaction	hm... $200 eh... maybe i won't be going to find them :p	21:34
ckotil	you know you spend that much in a few months anyway	21:34
@preaction	i don't smoke anymore. when i did, it was a pack a week	21:35
ckotil	well i dunno how much you smoke. but a pack a day would definately spend that much	21:35
@preaction	of ultralights even :p	21:35
@preaction	yeah. they got up to $60 a carton up here now, because you can just tax the heck out of smokers as much as you want, they don't mind, and if they do, it's good for them to quit anyway	21:36
ckotil	yeah, its crazy.	21:36
@preaction	i quit for my health, sure, not the cost, it just seems disingenuous to keep something legal and then prevent all consumption of it, or make people go through hell to get it	21:36
ckotil	the duty free shops in the caribean sells em for $25 a carton for marlboro. my friends were all stocking up.	21:37
@preaction	especially considering smoking is just annoying, whereas drinking is actually dangerous to others :p	21:37
@preaction	heh, nice	21:37
scrottie0	http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&nfpr=1&sa=X&ei=16KLTenzC5G8sQOHueGFCQ&ved=0CEwQBSgA&q=cigarette+fertilizer+radioactive	22:03
scrottie0	re: health and cigarettes	22:03
scrottie0	tl;dr: grow your own or buy organic.	22:03
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@khenn	perl question	23:31
@khenn	if I have a subroutine that accepts input like this:	23:31
@khenn	my ($self, @args) = @_;	23:31
@khenn	and @args coming in is actually a hash	23:31
@khenn	is there a slick way to get the items assosiatively?	23:32
@khenn	I know I can do $args[1], $args[3] etc	23:32
@khenn	I'd rather do $args{'date'}	23:33
@khenn	but if you declare it as an array, it doesn't like you referencing the thing as a hash	23:34
@khenn	I think I can do my %args = @args	23:34
@khenn	and that might work	23:34
@khenn	scrottie0 I'm sure you know	23:36
@khenn	i'm betting frodwith knows too =)	23:36
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--- Day changed Fri Mar 25 2011
@pbcj	I have a bunch of HTML being based back into a JS block as: var string = "<htmlstring>"	00:00
@pbcj	JSON->new->encode is not getting the job done... it breaks the page.. I'm guessing quoting issues	00:01
@pbcj	is there a better option for js-string-encode( this )	00:01
elnino	something spookey is happening. do sitemaps.xmls get automatically generated in webgui?	00:04
scrottie0	khenn, you mean like so: perl -e 'sub foo { my($x, %stuff) = @_; print $stuff{color}, "\n"; } foo(1, mood => "edgy", color => "red");'	00:15
elnino	I guess they do.	00:15
scrottie0	pbcj, I don't know about var string = "<tmpl_var html_string>" but var string = <tmpl_var json_string> should work... the JSON should be nicely quoted as far as JavaScript is concerned	00:16
@pbcj	yeah, I think it's a </script> in the string =(	00:17
scrottie0	pbcj, you can make a request back just to fetch the JSON datastructure in its own request but if the only objection to the current design is that it isn't working, I'd be inclined to investigate why and fix it	00:17
scrottie0	want to paste into gist.github.com the page source?	00:17
scrottie0	JavaScript doesn't give any special meaning to </script> when it appears inside quoted strings	00:18
scrottie0	document.write('</script>'); # no problemo!	00:18
@pbcj	hrm	00:18
@pbcj	well, when I regex out the < and > it stops breaking	00:18
scrottie0	or maybe I'm wrong. hmm. still, without that regex, I could offer something slightly better than a guess if I saw the HTML+JS	00:20
scrottie0	+JSON	00:20
@pbcj	cringe	00:21
@pbcj	https://gist.github.com/886025	00:21
@pbcj	It's sortof a non issue, right now the stuff that's getting put in the string in massively overkill, I need to replace the default template.. but still, I'd like to know it works no matter what	00:22
@preaction	uh, one of those points has a doctype in it. that's not legal	00:23
scrottie0	you aren't kidding... there are <script> tags inside the JSON strings.	00:23
@preaction	i might mention that this problem is why i suggested <iframe> instead	00:24
@pbcj	you might, but likely you're too humble	00:24
@pbcj	none the less, it is a non issue, making the correct template will solve it... and now it's just a gotcha. unless you would like an iframe, which I could do if bribed.	00:25
@preaction	khenn: yes, that is perfectly legal: %args = @args, provided of course @args has an even number of elements, and Perl will warn you if it does not	00:25
@preaction	pbcj: no, it's most likely too late to back out now. they want what they want.	00:25
@pbcj	roger, well, we now have a macro to render thing data against a given template	00:26
@preaction	and there's really half-dozen ways to do it	00:26
@preaction	macro is one, but be careful because macros can break quite easily	00:26
scrottie0	http://slowass.net/~scott/tmp/js.html	00:26
* scrottie0 was wrong.		00:26
* scrottie0 shrugs melodramatically		00:27
@preaction	i thought you were right too, i thought only IE had the "</script>" problem	00:27
@preaction	if you encased the whole thing in a CDATA block, that should fix it	00:27
@pbcj	I wanted to believe	00:27
@pbcj	the macro just calls into Thingy.pm, really for designer purposes	00:28
@pbcj	I added &templateId=<blah> to the www_viewThingData	00:28
* pbcj waits for the backlash		00:29
@preaction	hm... does that set the style ID or the regular template ID? or if you pass that argument, does the style disappear?	00:30
elnino	when did the passthru url for sitemaps.xml get added?	00:30
@preaction	elnino: it's not passthru i don't think, it's a special URL handler	00:30
@preaction	no, it's a special content handler, so it should not be a passthru	00:31
@preaction	pbcj: wait, show me your code quick	00:32
@preaction	the macro code	00:32
elnino	thanks preaction	00:32
elnino	any idea when it was added?	00:33
elnino	had to have been within hte last 3 years. I wrote a wiki on how to create one three years ago. =)	00:33
@preaction	7.8 or 7.9 iirc	00:33
@preaction	probably 7.8	00:33
@preaction	7.6.2 actually	00:34
@preaction	2008-11-04	00:34
elnino	perfect. I'll update the wiki. thanks!	00:34
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sbaur	In the Survey (the one added in 7.6) The take survey form has little Qs and As for the question and answers. Where do they come from? Can't find them in the question template nor in the edit question interface.	01:15
@preaction	the new survey?	01:21
sbaur	well, new to me anyways :)	01:21
sbaur	i'm testing this in 7.6.35	01:22
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r6853daa / root_import_carousel_carousel-default.wgpkg : add 12079 Carousel auto play - http://bit.ly/gARUbw	01:25
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r4483346 / (2 files in 2 dirs): i don't even know... - http://bit.ly/fdD849	01:25
@preaction	wait, wtf	01:25
@preaction	git just lost my commit?	01:25
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell master * r0c1486c / (4 files in 4 dirs): Merge commit '1f0e527' - http://bit.ly/e5gL1U	01:27
sbaur	I'll ask again in the morning. bye all	01:32
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@preaction	the more i look at jquery, the more i like what they're trying to do	04:51
@preaction	YUI's not reaching the depth of the core bits that jquery is, because yui also focuses on UI components	04:51
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virgomoon	anybody in the mood to do some HTML/CSS debugging?	05:43
@preaction	i could be, if it's not too evil	05:44
virgomoon	this one should be easy for someone that knows what they're doing .. unlike myself, evidently	05:44
virgomoon	www.secularpolygamy.com	05:44
virgomoon	log in as test, password test	05:45
virgomoon	then, where it says 'Hello test' click on 'test' to bring up the user profile	05:45
virgomoon	the profile info is pushed below the left-hand div	05:45
virgomoon	there is a div w/ a clear: both right above that div	05:45
virgomoon	but, I even put that whole center block in its own div to no avail	05:46
virgomoon	the left hand column (div) is float: left, right hand is float: right	05:46
virgomoon	why is that div under the profile info tabs pushed to the bottom?	05:47
@preaction	if you float the middle column instead, that'll go away	05:47
@preaction	it's being pushed down because there's a <div style="clear:both"> in there	05:47
@preaction	that gets the tab body below the tab heads	05:47
@preaction	also, did you put back the <tmpl_var head.tags> into your style template? the home page doesn't show them	05:47
virgomoon	yes, I did	05:48
virgomoon	the admin functions work fine now, thank you	05:48
@preaction	weird	05:48
virgomoon	so .. float the middle one? what should I put on the left and right ones?	05:49
@preaction	leave them as they are	05:49
@preaction	if the CSS bot was in #css, i'd have it tell you why	05:49
virgomoon	leave as float left and right?	05:49
@preaction	but google search for "containing floats"	05:49
virgomoon	ok .. will do	05:49
virgomoon	thx, man	05:50
@preaction	np	05:50
virgomoon	this whole clear/float thing confuses the hell out of me .. likely because I don't actually do much page design, I'm more of a database guy, lol	05:54
virgomoon	I should probably actually learn it one of these days before they change the spec, lol	05:55
@preaction	it makes sense after you hammer it into your head with a brick for a few hours	05:55
virgomoon	oh, I'm sure it will	05:55
@preaction	brick not optional	05:55
virgomoon	well, I've got the general idea, but the little tricky stuff indicating a more intimate knowledge that gets me	05:57
virgomoon	(I should shut up and go back to reading, lol)	05:57
@preaction	#css is usually full of people who know what they're doing	05:58
virgomoon	didn't even think of that one	05:58
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virgomoon	would you believe that a table fixes the whole thing?	06:12
virgomoon	just enclose that middle content in a one-cell table	06:12
virgomoon	I almost feel dirty doing that	06:13
scrottie0	hey, better than position: absolute	06:14
virgomoon	screw it .. it works, lol	06:14
virgomoon	well, it looks like what was happening is that the clear:both was extending past the div boundary	06:14
virgomoon	I would've expected the clear to 'stay within that div' but that didn't seem to be the case	06:15
virgomoon	but when I enclosed it in a table, that 'broke the chain' .. that's the best way I can think to describe it	06:15
scrottie0	the browser is still trying to do a top-to-bottom layout.	06:17
virgomoon	?	06:19
virgomoon	on my site?	06:19
scrottie0	in general.	06:20
scrottie0	if it lays some stuff out, then lays out something that wants to be clear of the other stuff, things it lays out after that are going to generally be below that	06:20
virgomoon	ah .. so it doesn't actually do them as self-contained entities?	06:20
scrottie0	kind of.	06:21
virgomoon	I also do some work in java, so I was expecting the browsers to do much the same thing as the gridbaglayout	06:21
virgomoon	what happens in one container influences everything else, but only because it altered the container it's in	06:21
scrottie0	more like the FlowLayout... except with extra features... I'd say...	06:23
@preaction	the table contains the float	06:25
@preaction	another div would probably do the same thing	06:25
@preaction	floats are fairly crazy: they're allowed to leave their container, they press against some content but not others, they stack horizontally unless you tell them otherwise, etc...	06:26
virgomoon	I tried another div .. no dice	06:26
virgomoon	the table did the trick, though	06:26
scrottie0	I would only not use tables if you find yourself having to use nested tables to accomplish something.	06:27
virgomoon	agreed	06:27
virgomoon	this was more an 'isolation' tactic	06:27
scrottie0	well, it's pretty much redundant with what people use divs for.	06:28
scrottie0	you don't need your divs at all if you're using a table.	06:28
@preaction	except using tables are bad :p	06:28
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zylopfa	Greetings webguians!	13:11
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+bartjol	hi	13:25
zylopfa	that Thingy is genious	13:26
zylopfa	I am making a CRM system now with it and the awesome part is that it has json output	13:27
zylopfa	So i am using it with jquery grid	13:27
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+bartjol	zylopfa: eh, it says enough that thingy was developed by a Dutch guy :)	15:31
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SDuensin	FrIdAy!	15:46
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+bartjol	ah da scottman	16:07
SDuensin	Yep. It's me.	16:12
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zylopfa	bartjol, who invented it?	16:36
+bartjol	Yung	16:37
+bartjol	it was a request by PB, but he developed it	16:37
zylopfa	I will put a wobject out that will show thingy data in jquery grids	16:38
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+bartjol	ah, it is prolly all yui now	16:39
zylopfa	yeah	16:40
zylopfa	good thing is he made it so you can get json data out	16:40
zylopfa	ofc one could do it reasonable easy but i like when is thought in from the start	16:41
+bartjol	and you only have to change the skin	16:41
zylopfa	yeah!	16:41
+bartjol	yeah	16:41
zylopfa	I made a wobject so you only need to put the asset id of the thing which collection you want to show	16:41
zylopfa	then it display it in a sortable jquery grid	16:42
+bartjol	cool	16:42
+bartjol	from what I understand, jquery is nicer for aesthetics	16:42
+bartjol	I hardly wotk with javascript	16:43
zylopfa	yeah its pretty nice imo	16:43
+bartjol	well, I suppose that is what matters if you make your own wobject	16:55
zylopfa	yeah, its not a big wobject though just most of it its javascript that will setup the table headers and data	16:55
zylopfa	it will load the json from the thingy asset you ask	16:56
zylopfa	Thingy is genious cause the users can make their own fields	16:56
zylopfa	i am making a CRM system	16:56
zylopfa	where the customers migh want additional fields	16:57
+bartjol	yeah, Thingy looks perfect for that	16:59
+bartjol	the sqlreport used to do roughly the same, but you needed SQL skills	16:59
zylopfa	yeah i used that a lot also	17:00
+bartjol	sqlform	17:00
zylopfa	its good also	17:00
+bartjol	but it only get's data	17:00
zylopfa	yeah true, the hard thing is to make additional fields on the run	17:00
zylopfa	and thingy has got that covered	17:01
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xdanger	I think that YUI was the right choice when it was chosen, but I wish that we would have gone with jquery+extJS =)	18:16
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@preaction	ext's license doesn't allow us to ship with it	18:32
+bartjol	ext3?	18:32
scrottie0	ext-js, I'm guessing	18:33
+bartjol	Ok, I made a purposely wrong guess	18:33
@preaction	we really need to move to yui3	18:36
+bartjol	oh, is it still 2.8?	18:37
Haarg	yeah	18:40
Haarg	3 isn't backward compatible though	18:41
@preaction	yeah, that's the problem	18:41
+bartjol	ah, joy	18:41
Haarg	it's possible to mix the two, but a lot of work to convert things over even enough to support that	18:41
@preaction	it's just. 2 is so annoying to write with	18:41
+bartjol	well, haven't had to deal with that...	18:43
Haarg	you could be really evil and do something like YUI().use('yui2-calendar', function(Y) { window.YAHOO = Y.YUI2 });	18:45
Haarg	no idea if that would work at all	18:46
@preaction	i was under the idea that's what the yui3 2in3 module basically does	18:51
Haarg	per http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/3/examples/yui/yui-compat.html	18:54
Haarg	it seems like it will load yui2 modules, but when you are writing against them, you have to create the YAHOO variable yourself	18:54
Haarg	and the examples all show that by wrapping the yui2 code in the YUI().use() function	18:55
Haarg	with webgui it would be pretty difficult to wrap all the YUI2 code	18:56
Haarg	which is where my proposed 'window.YAHOO = Y.YUI2' thing would possibly help since you wouldn't have to wrap stuff	18:56
Haarg	but i have no idea if it would actually work and it's very ugly	18:57
@preaction	if only JS had local	18:58
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Haarg	even if you load a bunch of yui3 modules with script tags, they aren't available in the YUI().use() function unless you explicitly ask for them	18:59
Haarg	which is why my hack might fail entirely	19:00
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virgomoon	afternoon, all .. I'm trying to setup my site to allow for members to create an account (ok, got that part down) and allow them to add/manage their friends. From what I'm seeing, though, the ability to manage friends is an admin action which allows this manager to see the internal emails sent to/from folks (who they should not otherwise have access to) instead of the expected behavior of being able to see a list of members and sending friend invitations	20:43
virgomoon	to them, etc.	20:43
virgomoon	is what I'm talking about not the intended use of this system?	20:43
virgomoon	just trying to get a gauge of whether I should keep digging	20:43
@preaction	the way you add friends is to view someone else's profile. if they allow friending, there should be a link to ask for a friendship	20:46
virgomoon	well, you saw my site last night .. what I'm expecting is the way it's supposed to work, right? it's entirely possible I'm doing it wrong	20:47
@preaction	that being said, if there are any RFEs or improvements you want to see, i think that section of WebGUI needs a major UI overhaul	20:47
@preaction	the "Friend Manager" is an admin-only tool, yes	20:47
@preaction	i think	20:47
virgomoon	ok	20:47
virgomoon	that makes sense	20:47
virgomoon	it might be that the friends list doesn't have the link by default and that's what's throwing me off	20:48
virgomoon	lemme see if I can find the docs on that whole user list template thing and maybe I can write a custom one to do it	20:48
@preaction	is the user allowing friend invites?	20:49
virgomoon	yes	20:51
virgomoon	but, my thinking is correct, right? it's supposed to be an 'internal friend/messaging' thing akin to the facebook style, right?	20:52
@preaction	yes	20:52
virgomoon	k .. let me dork around with it some more	20:52
@preaction	no wall or anything like that, just an internal messaging. the internal messages usually get sent out via e-mail, but the internal message is still there	20:52
virgomoon	ya	20:52
virgomoon	thank you, preaction	20:53
@preaction	a wall would be possible, even easy, but is not yet being done	20:53
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virgomoon	so .. let's say someone wanted to write a custom member's list template .. where would one find the docs on the tmpl_vars available?	21:45
@preaction	in the Admin Console, there's a Help section that lists the template variables available to each template	21:46
@preaction	that is, if it's accurate. if it's missing, report a bug and it'll get fixed	21:46
virgomoon	WHOA	21:47
virgomoon	how have I missed that all this time? lol	21:47
@preaction	it's not very prominent	21:48
virgomoon	I've been sitting here for weeks thinking "wow, this is a great system, but the documentation is crap" lol	21:48
virgomoon	and, lo and behold, it was right under my nose	21:48
@preaction	eventually i want to hook the Template Preview thing in 7.10 up to the template variables help there, but that'll take some doing	21:48
@preaction	did you read the Designer's Guide from http://webgui.org/user-guides ?	21:48
virgomoon	yes	21:48
virgomoon	not, like, studied it, though	21:49
virgomoon	so I likely missed some	21:49
virgomoon	and that link is probably in there, I'm assuming	21:49
virgomoon	ya, I'm not sure how you could make that more prominent w/o it being obnoxious	21:49
@preaction	inlining it with the template preview is what i think will do it	21:50
@preaction	when you configure what values the variables have, it'd show hoverhelp describing what the variable means, or something	21:51
@preaction	or even just a link or something, who knows	21:51
@preaction	a link might be doable right now in fact...	21:51
@preaction	is there something on the right-hand box when editing a template?	21:51
virgomoon	not that I know of .. lemme look	21:51
virgomoon	no	21:52
@preaction	hm... that might be something to remedy...	21:52
virgomoon	ya, a link to that template's variable list would do .. I know I looked there at some point	21:52
@preaction	in 8, of course, when i can open a new tab with those vars	21:53
virgomoon	yeah, there's a lot of possibilities .. though I suspect you guys have a better idea of what the user base needs than one person	21:54
@preaction	humph. the changes i recently made will preclude the possibility of ordering that right-hand menu thing	21:54
virgomoon	I know for my own business, we have a lot of users that think they know best when it doesn't really fit into the paradigm of the user base as a whole .. so I try to work with what I've got and not try to push for change	21:54
@preaction	(it's different now, but it's the same purpose)	21:55
virgomoon	k	21:55
@preaction	eh, doesn't mean i can't hack something into shape there	21:55
@preaction	i'd just like to see "Variables Help" as the first link, instead of the last, sorted alphabetically	21:55
virgomoon	well, if this were something I (or you guys) were making money on, I'd likely be a bit more proactive about tweaking stuff .. but, given that I'm kinda riding on the coat tails, I just want to learn my way around	21:56
virgomoon	well, just somewhere apparent on the right would do	21:56
virgomoon	I mean, it's not a big list	21:56
virgomoon	I'm lazy, I'm not THAT lazy, lol	21:56
@preaction	it's a bigger list in 8	21:56
virgomoon	ah, ok	21:56
@preaction	every asset has 12 there. the normal Cut, Copy, etc... operations are there now	21:57
@preaction	well i can show you, one sec	21:57
@preaction	http://dl.dropbox.com/u/226725/Screen%20shot%202011-03-25%20at%202.57.05%20PM.png	21:57
@preaction	it's on the left there	21:57
virgomoon	oh, on the left .. I was like "man, there's nothing on the right"	21:58
virgomoon	lol	21:58
@preaction	everything that was on the right will be folded into that list on the left, called Asset Helpers	21:58
virgomoon	um .. I don't know .. maybe a separator space, then the help at the bottom?	21:58
virgomoon	but you said it couldn't be ordered that way	21:58
virgomoon	ah, ok	21:58
@preaction	i can make a way for ordering to work	21:58
@preaction	but seperators, that's something that might be useful too	21:58
virgomoon	just thinking something slight for it to stand out	21:59
virgomoon	the eye doesn't need much for something to be 'different'	21:59
@preaction	or being able to assign a CSS class name or something, to bold it or upsize it or something	21:59
@preaction	well, it would have an icon, but that was vetoed	21:59
@preaction	i might put them back in just because	21:59
virgomoon	ya .. icons can get confusing	21:59
virgomoon	personally, I hate icons	22:00
@preaction	depends on how they're used and mostly how they're re-used	22:00
virgomoon	they rarely convey the full meaning enough to stand on their own	22:00
virgomoon	agreed	22:00
@preaction	that i agree with	22:00
virgomoon	I mean, a folder is obvious enough	22:00
@preaction	it enhances the label, it does not REPLACE the label	22:00
virgomoon	but if you try to convey real meaning in an icon, it gets dicy	22:00
@preaction	i hate when they just put the icon and assume i know what it means	22:00
virgomoon	true	22:00
virgomoon	ya	22:00
@preaction	but it's easier to pick out an icon from a list of icons than a word from a list of text	22:00
virgomoon	but .. once you learn what the icons are, you're fine	22:00
@preaction	right	22:01
virgomoon	for example .. I play Eve online	22:01
virgomoon	not sure if you're familiar	22:01
virgomoon	but the comm list on the left is a list of icons which you can expand to icon/label	22:01
sbaur	but only if it's something you use often, otherwise, it's a repeated cycle of learn and forget	22:01
@preaction	i've heard of it, not played it. can't afford the plex	22:01
virgomoon	once you learn what is what, you can get the names out of the way and just use the icons	22:01
virgomoon	agreed, sbaur	22:01
virgomoon	ya, if you don't do it a LOT, then they lose meaning .. kinda like forgetting a password	22:02
@preaction	right	22:02
@preaction	so an icon for "Edit" would be a good thing (and you could eventually drop the label), but for "Copy Branch" not so much	22:02
virgomoon	lol .. ya	22:02
@preaction	it's been my opinion that, as a CMS, we have the worst set of requirements: it has to be easy to program for programmers, and easy to use for users <- it has to be easy for programmers to make it easy to use for users	22:03
@preaction	which leads us to the icon situation: we couldn't agree, so we dropped the subject	22:04
virgomoon	ya .. I do not envy y'all's position	22:04
virgomoon	it's a nice system, though .. gotta hand it to you	22:04
* preaction closes the tab with the screenshot he took, and gets surprised to see the same screen (the one he took the screenshot from :p)		22:04
virgomoon	lol	22:04
@preaction	it was less grainy, which threw me for a loop	22:05
virgomoon	lol	22:05
zylopfa	hail preaction !	22:18
@preaction	well met, zylopfa!	22:18
zylopfa	Greetings!!	22:18
zylopfa	I am making a jquery grid addon to thingy	22:18
@preaction	interesting	22:19
@preaction	i'm talking with pbcj about adding more vars to thingy to make it easier to do fun stuff	22:19
zylopfa	thingy you can use www methods to get json data from them	22:19
@preaction	if you can't, i'd support adding it	22:19
zylopfa	I must say preaction I LOVE THUINGY!!	22:19
zylopfa	yeah preaction i was so happy to see they was there	22:19
@preaction	heh, it's a good solution for what it does	22:19
zylopfa	else i'd hae done it myself ofc	22:19
@preaction	colin's got some ideas on how to make it even better, along with a bunch of other work to make WebGUI play nicely with other data/ORM systems	22:20
zylopfa	I make a CRM system	22:20
zylopfa	so i need users to be able to define fields to thingy is kick ass	22:20
@preaction	indeed, that's one of the use-cases we had when making Thingy	22:20
zylopfa	I will put my jquerygrid wobject for thingy on the bazaar soon	22:21
zylopfa	I was gonna do it from scratch	22:21
zylopfa	but then i looked over thingy a good deal	22:21
@preaction	yeah, the jquery grid makes me want jquery for the asset manager sometimes	22:21
zylopfa	and i must say it rocks	22:21
zylopfa	haa yeah preaction	22:21
zylopfa	what licencing is jquery in?	22:21
@preaction	LGPL iirc	22:21
@preaction	it's possible, we just didn't	22:22
sbaur	Ok, going to re-ask my question from yesterday in the hopes that someone may have an answer today. In Survey (the one added in 7.6) The take survey form has little Qs and As for the question and answers. Where do they come from? Can't find them in the question template nor in the edit question interface.	22:22
@preaction	MIT actually, which is even better	22:22
zylopfa	what you mean sbaur?	22:23
zylopfa	are there already preset questions and answers?	22:23
@preaction	sbaur: they're probably hard-coded. the default templates were designed along survey-monkey lines for statistic neutrality	22:23
sbaur	hard-coded? ouch.	22:23
@preaction	if you can't find them, at least	22:24
scrottie0	hard-coded, yay! Survey has way too much configurable.	22:24
--- Log closed Fri Mar 25 22:24:24 2011
--- Log opened Fri Mar 25 22:46:04 2011
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r698f40a / (23 files in 4 dirs):	22:46
CIA-74	webgui: add "asset" property to AssetHelpers.	22:46
CIA-74	webgui: Simplifies the API and allows us to have getForm and getUrl to make	22:46
CIA-74	webgui: asset helpers easier to build. - http://bit.ly/ghiHSJ	22:46
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf7fb7ce / (www/extras/admin/admin.css www/extras/admin/admin.js): try to make Tree view prettier - http://bit.ly/gSMXgS	22:46
CIA-74	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r4adaa09 / lib/WebGUI/FormBuilder.pm : normalize formbuilder vars - http://bit.ly/eF96Gh	22:46
zylopfa	I have a small question!!	22:47
zylopfa	When you upload say files to a thingy	22:47
zylopfa	it gets kept in /upload	22:47
zylopfa	But thats not secured with same rights as peeps have for viewing the thingy thing	22:47
zylopfa	shoul i overcome this by making a url handler?	22:48
@preaction	it should be secured by the same rights, via the .wgaccess file	22:48
@preaction	the Uploads URL handler should read the .wgaccess file to do so	22:49
zylopfa	but isnt the /upload in sick many subdirs?	22:49
zylopfa	i mean its like /upload/57wuilegqlgugy3/9yliurgh2e/file	22:49
@preaction	yes. the .wgaccess file is in every folder	22:49
@preaction	yes	22:49
zylopfa	but then i have to make a .wgaccess there also?	22:49
zylopfa	or is it created auto?	22:49
zylopfa	I will check this out	22:49
@preaction	it is automatically created if the file is not accessible by Everyone	22:51
zylopfa	ahh thanks preaction !	22:53
zylopfa	you know webgui outside in	22:53
zylopfa	and inside out	22:53
@preaction	yep. been doing this a long time	22:53
@preaction	unique out of every asset in WebGUI, Image has an Undo function that purges the most recent revision. should I change it to be part of every asset's helpers?	23:01
zylopfa	yeah would be a good think i think	23:01
zylopfa	the revision system in webgui is sick good though	23:02
zylopfa	does other cms have it?	23:02
@preaction	some do, i imagine. cmsmatrix.org might know which ones	23:02
@preaction	the big secret about cmsmatrix: JT built it to get ideas for what to put in webgui ;)	23:03
@khenn	so I just had someone tell me I'm over documenting my code. That's a first for me	23:04
scrottie0	are you making them look bad or what?	23:05
@khenn	I guess	23:06
zylopfa	ahh sick good	23:06
zylopfa	I am happy i found webgui and its in perl	23:07
zylopfa	I dont know why php got popular so fast its like perl on tranquilizers	23:07
zylopfa	haa nice khenn	23:08
zylopfa	not bad though i am sure	23:08
@preaction	depends, are the docs useful? do they explain why the function exists?	23:08
scrottie0	cultural differences, I'm guessing. they had a "there's no wrong way to do something" philosophy that put novices at ease. asking for help with PHP, you'd never be told "you're doing it wrong!".	23:09
zylopfa	but perl has the same	23:09
@khenn	nah, I think the guy just thinks it's too cluttery	23:09
zylopfa	you always said tyou can do things in 1000 ways with perl	23:10
@khenn	I do sometimes clutter up code with comments	23:10
scrottie0	people in PHP help channels don't get uppity if they can't get a clear picture of your problem but instead just guess and have you try things. it's less effective at solving problems but it gives out good vibes.	23:10
scrottie0	zylopfa, have you been in any of the #perl channels in the past ten years?	23:10
@preaction	er... last i checked, ##php was a desolate wasteland where egos reigned and nobody got help	23:11
scrottie0	only comments about the obvious to a casual observer are clutter.	23:11
scrottie0	hrm.	23:11
zylopfa	haa no guess not scrottie0	23:11
scrottie0	okay, I haven't been in a #php channel recently.	23:11
zylopfa	but all i read of perl advocated that the fun with perl is you can make things in so many ways	23:12
scrottie0	Perl is trying to be Java right now, so it makes sense that PHP would be trying to be Perl.	23:12
zylopfa	haa yeah	23:12
zylopfa	why would perl wanna be java:(	23:12
@preaction	then what's Python trying to be? C/C++?	23:12
scrottie0	zylopfa, yeah, that was the cultural attitude, but things have changed. now there's the "Perl Best Practices" movement. people like chromatic, who are well known in the community, are working hard to distance Perl's image from the bad code that people write while they're still learning.	23:13
@khenn	php people with egos	23:13
@khenn	isn't that an oxymoron?	23:13
scrottie0	I've been getting told a lot things along the lines of "if you think that, then obviously you don't know Perl!". le sigh...	23:13
zylopfa	ahh i see scrottie0	23:13
zylopfa	lol!	23:14
zylopfa	they should be a bit more kind imo	23:14
scrottie0	there are a lot of reasons to use the newest language out there. there's never any maintenance work in it. egos haven't formed yet. it doesn't have any old code to be embarassed about. everyone has a shot of fame and glory.	23:15
zylopfa	I dont dare to go to perl channel now	23:15
scrottie0	you can go to #perl, but it's full of cranky old bastards like me.	23:15
@preaction	eh, it's mostly full of rindolf, mst, and apeiron	23:15
scrottie0	Somni	23:15
@preaction	cranky young bastards	23:15
@khenn	apeiron	23:16
@khenn	heh	23:16
@khenn	the wow king	23:16
zylopfa	world of warcraft?	23:16
@khenn	I hear he got to level eleventy billion	23:16
zylopfa	:O	23:16
@khenn	heh yeah	23:16
@khenn	preaction what movie is that from? eleventy billion	23:17
@khenn	tip of my tounge	23:17
@preaction	no idea, but maybe you're thinking about Grandma's Boy	23:21
@preaction	apparently Keanu Reeves gave that as a bet on an episode of Celebrity Jeopardy	23:22
scrottie0	dammit, spent an hour fighting something that turned out to be browser cache. stupid, stupid, stupid.	23:22
@preaction	those are persistent, tricky bastards	23:23
zylopfa	haa yeah indeed	23:23
--- Log closed Fri Mar 25 23:32:20 2011
--- Log opened Sat Mar 26 00:12:09 2011
scrottie0	I hate i18n.	00:12
scrottie0	this makes unwinding spaghetti code just that much worse.	00:12
--- Log closed Sat Mar 26 01:01:44 2011
--- Log opened Sat Mar 26 11:15:48 2011
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virgomoon	I'm editing a Data Form .. how do I get the 'Default Value' to be the current user's username for a Text Field?	21:49
virgomoon	AHA!! Macros seem to work in there :)	21:53
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@khenn	afternoon!	20:11
scrottie0	mbpmppff.	20:11
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@khenn	that good eh scrottie0?	20:13
@khenn	what happened to perlDreamer?	20:17
@khenn	haven't seen him on lately	20:17
scrottie0	I assume he's around somewhere...	20:19
@khenn	yeah I got him on skype, thanks	20:20
@preaction	he was on vacation last week, the slacker	20:24
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+perlDreamer	TZ-appropriate greets to all!	20:33
@preaction	yay! he's back!	20:35
@preaction	oh thank you thankyouthankyou!	20:35
@khenn	perlDreamer++	20:35
+perlDreamer	thanks guys, it's nice to be missed	20:43
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+perlDreamer	running time	21:16
@khenn	grumble @ $SIG_DIE overriding bastards	21:39
@khenn	$SIG{__DIE__} that is	21:39
@preaction	okay, so again with an "Undo" question: should I really delete the revision in the "Undo" asset helper?	21:39
@khenn	not if you are ever planning to implement a "redo"	21:40
@khenn	otherwise, why would you save it?	21:40
@preaction	well, the only other option is that undo just replaces the current revision with the previous, but that means another undo would just swap back	21:41
@khenn	actually	21:41
@preaction	oh, wait, if i had revisionId instead of revisionDate, undo could just point the currentRevisionId to the previous revision, and then there'd be accountibility!	21:41
@khenn	there is one other option	21:41
@khenn	"undo" could add a new revision	21:42
@khenn	which is a copy of the previous revision	21:42
@khenn	but I haven't thought that through really	21:42
@khenn	so that may cause other issues	21:42
@preaction	right, that's what i was saying: what would the next undo do?	21:42
@preaction	the user would expect the next prior revision, but instead they'd get the undo undone	21:43
@khenn	rewrite versioning IMO	21:43
@khenn	=)	21:43
* khenn devil's advocate		21:43
@khenn	you know you want to	21:43
@preaction	but, if instead of picking the "current revision" based on MAX(revisionDate), we use an ID linked from the asset table as "currentRevisionId", we can do this by moving the currentRevisionId through the revisionDates in the table	21:43
@preaction	i have, largely, and if i do this, i'll have pretty much done everything there is to do to change it :p	21:44
@preaction	yeah, this goes on my list too	21:44
@preaction	but for now, undo goes away	21:45
@khenn	probably a good idea	21:45
@khenn	is deleted content versioned yet?	21:45
@preaction	no, state is still not in the assetData table	21:46
@preaction	in theory, that'd be all it would take	21:46
@preaction	but it's probably a lot more difficult than it sounds	21:46
@preaction	but with a less hairy join between asset and assetData using currentRevisionId, it might be more feasible	21:46
@preaction	hm.. but even then you've got the tagId parts of the join	21:47
@preaction	join assetData on (asset.currentRevisionId = assetData.revisionId or assetData.tagId=?)	21:48
CIA-121	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r68cc229 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image.pm : remove undo helper, will add it back when we have proper revisionId - http://bit.ly/gzQxVH	21:51
@khenn	yeah I never was a fan of the asset / assetData structure	21:52
@khenn	and thus the need for the indexContent table	21:52
@preaction	eh, there's no other good way to do it, unless you version the asset table, which isn't a problem until you start looking up assets (then you're back to MAX(revisionDate) or a "currentRevision" table)	21:53
@khenn	not that I can think of a better way to do it ...	21:53
@preaction	tags being magic is a part of the problem	21:53
@preaction	tags as a staging area, that is	21:53
@khenn	versioning is a hairy business for sure	21:53
@khenn	tbh I think it would be better to have one asset table with everything in it and manage revisions in a different table. That has it's own problems but at least it prevents join hell	21:55
@khenn	also probably makes the delete problem easy	21:56
@khenn	but ...	21:56
@khenn	again	21:56
@khenn	not sure that's a 'better' solution	21:56
@khenn	it's just a different one	21:56
@preaction	yeah, then whatever ->new sub could be hooked into to pull tags/revisions	21:58
@preaction	which could mean versioning as a role, which could be a good thing	21:58
@preaction	because then it could be genericized and used for more than just asset	21:59
@khenn	right	22:01
CIA-121	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r25fe87d / (16 files in 16 dirs): Fix for UTF8 URLs in static JS files. Next, all templated/snippet based JS has to be reviewed. Partial fix for bug#12065 - http://bit.ly/fAkycM	22:42
+perlDreamer	newsflash: IE will not encode UTF8 URLs for you when using JS	22:44
@preaction	bastards!	22:44
+perlDreamer	maybe that's a feature slotted for IE25	22:44
CIA-121	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r41f6f89 / (14 files in 14 dirs): Fix for UTF8 URLs in static JS files. Next, all templated/snippet based JS has to be reviewed. Partial fix for bug#12065 - http://bit.ly/fjsTuf	22:45
@khenn	is that really surprising?	22:49
@preaction	no, but they're still bastards	23:15
CIA-121	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r39e2c56 / (2 files in 2 dirs): migrate Crop to Asset Helper - http://bit.ly/fK5Gl5	23:21
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CIA-121	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r2054083 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image.pm :	23:44
CIA-121	webgui: change Annotate into asset helper	23:44
CIA-121	webgui: Annotate relies on a property of the asset, so it should	23:44
+perlDreamer	it should what?	23:54
@preaction	the rest of the commit message says, no?	23:57
@preaction	apparently not on github...	23:57
@preaction	it should be a role, not a helper	23:57
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--- Day changed Tue Mar 29 2011
CIA-121	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * raee00bf / (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm t/Asset/Shortcut/forms.t): fix shortcut overrides and add helper - http://bit.ly/i1rFvH	00:27
CIA-121	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rfbd573c / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Subscription.pm : move admin console links into asset helpers - http://bit.ly/dIA3a7	00:39
@preaction	committing like a BOSS	00:39
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CIA-121	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8a8c8b4 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Fix commit log entry that was accidently copied from master during merge. - http://bit.ly/f6Mnib	01:09
+perlDreamer	time to take kiddos to piano lessons	01:17
+perlDreamer	back in several hours	01:17
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Trebbor	Hi	15:31
Trebbor	Does anyone here know if there will be improvements in User management in WebGUI 8?	15:35
Trebbor	We use WebGUI a lot for making web applications, but we always have to build our own user management module because it's part of the Admin Console now and not in the site layout.	15:36
Trebbor	We are thinking of creating our own asset, but maybe we could also help to get in the core of WebGUI 8..	15:38
Trebbor	Maybe I should wait for an answer first.. :)	15:38
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scrottie0	hey Trebbor	19:56
scrottie0	no, you signed off.	19:56
scrottie0	Dutch.	19:56
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+perlDreamer	yay, virtualbox is working again	21:26
+perlDreamer	now I can use IE6	21:26
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sbaur	perldreamer, perhaps you won't have to use IE6 for too much longer - http://www.theie6countdown.com/	21:34
+perlDreamer	that would be great	21:35
+perlDreamer	if only we could get rid of it altogether	21:35
sbaur	if only <sigh>	21:36
+perlDreamer	lunchtime	22:00
Getty	supporting IE6 is really outdated	22:00
@preaction	i'm removing import and export products from Shelf, they're being moved into asset helper	22:05
@preaction	this leaves Shelf as ... nothing	22:05
@preaction	should I re-create it as a subclass of Layout or Folder?	22:06
scrottie0	ie6 rocks!	22:06
@preaction	the only thing shelf does uniquely is get products by keyword, a properly factored layout or folder would allow shelf to still do that	22:06
@preaction	and i think layout would be great, you could order the products on your shelf as you want to	22:06
scrottie0	ies4linux does ie6 well... the others, not so much. well, I gues sit does 5 and 5.5 well too.	22:07
@preaction	in fact, maybe folder should be a subclass of layout too	22:07
scrottie0	folder and layout are likely to go different directions in the future.	22:37
scrottie0	layout is kinda scary.	22:37
scrottie0	not sure folder should be tied to that. dunno.	22:38
@preaction	i'm hoping to remove that scariness in 8	22:38
@preaction	and yeah, you're probably right. layout has a different purpose than folder	22:38
@preaction	though i suspect that they'll actually converge more than diverge	22:39
+perlDreamer	you could do cool things to a shelf that you can't do to a Layout	23:15
+perlDreamer	like build an RSS feed of the items on it	23:15
+perlDreamer	shelf also allows you to build little forms on it for adding the product to the cart	23:16
+perlDreamer	without visiting the product	23:16
+perlDreamer	and layout/folder won't let you do that either	23:16
@preaction	they could be added by overriding methods of layout	23:16
@preaction	methods that don't exist yet, of course	23:17
@preaction	that's not important i guess, the most important bit is to make layout and folder worth subclassing	23:18
@preaction	frodwith: would you object if i made WebGUI::Fork->update automatically JSONify a hashref that was passed in?	23:23
@frodwith	yes	23:23
@frodwith	strongly	23:23
@preaction	why	23:24
@frodwith	because status doesn't have to be json	23:24
@preaction	but it has to be serialized to be stored in the db, no?	23:24
@frodwith	no.	23:24
@frodwith	$fork->update('working'). $fork->update('done')	23:25
@preaction	those aren't hashrefs	23:25
@frodwith	no, they aren't.	23:25
@preaction	so they wouldn't be jsonified, because they're not hashrefs	23:25
@frodwith	oh, you want it to DWIM.	23:25
@frodwith	ummm.... I don't like it	23:26
@frodwith	why do you want to do that?	23:26
@preaction	i'm trying to make the WebGUI::Fork::ProgressBar easier to use. right now i have to JSONify the { message => '', total => '', done => '', elapsed => '' } myself	23:26
@frodwith	why is that a problem?	23:26
@preaction	because it makes the example code more complicated	23:26
@frodwith	no it doesn't	23:27
@frodwith	it makes it a few characters longer	23:27
@frodwith	but not more complicated	23:27
@frodwith	I like that it wants a string, because it keeps the api simple.	23:27
@preaction	but it also accepts a coderef	23:28
@preaction	does "elapsed" mean time elapsed/	23:28
@frodwith	yeah, a coderef that returns a string	23:28
@frodwith	:\	23:29
@frodwith	but the idea is, a status is a string	23:29
@frodwith	that's nice and conceptually simple	23:29
@preaction	would $process->update({}) get stringified?	23:29
@frodwith	it'd be HASH(0x2937492) or whatever	23:29
@frodwith	and yeah, elapsed means time elapsed	23:30
@preaction	https://gist.github.com/c769fee1bc1cabfb7b00 <- here's the synopsis i'm writing for WebGUI::Fork::ProgressBar	23:31
@preaction	also, the Admin Console is going to add some things to the status hash to be used when the process is completed, but that's entirely up to the Admin Console	23:32
@frodwith	you could also write a wrapper around Fork for ProgressBar, like WebGUI::ProgressTree	23:33
@frodwith	I hesitate to call it ProgressBar, because that used to be another thing that's still there in 7	23:33
@preaction	i could, but the good namespace is taken	23:33
@preaction	and per our conversations before, i'd rather keep some measure of synchronicity between the various ways of displaying. I'd like to be able to downgrade a ProgressTree into a ProgressBar using the ProgressBar's display code	23:34
@frodwith	and you probably want to wrap any JSON->encodes in a sub {}	23:34
@frodwith	because json encoding isn't free	23:34
@preaction	sigh... more complexity...	23:34
@preaction	"hello random subref!"	23:35
@frodwith	yeah, coderefs are hard to understand. Let's go shopping!	23:35
@frodwith	it says right in the api doc.... "if your status is expensive to compute, you can wrap it in a subref. then it'll only get called if someone asks for it."	23:35
@preaction	it's not WHAT, it's WHY. and i've left some comments as to that effect	23:35
@preaction	hmm.. perhaps i should read carefully	23:37
sbaur	Question for you smart folks: I have a style template that we've just converted to template toolkit in 7.5.40. It has a [% head_tags %] in it, but it's not pulling head block stuff from the custom asset on the page in, even though when this was an HTML template with tmpl_var head.tags it pulled in the stuff from the custom asset just fine. Do I need to reference it differently?	23:38
CIA-17	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r297dd5d / lib/WebGUI/Fork/ProgressBar.pm : add synopsis for Fork ProgressBar - http://bit.ly/ieOlKA	23:39
@preaction	oh lord. doesn't the new head/body tags stuff use "head_tags" instead of "head.tags"?	23:39
@preaction	no, it's head_attachments, my bad	23:40
@frodwith	sbaur is in 7.5.40 anyway	23:40
@preaction	ah true	23:40
@frodwith	sbaur: I don't know, it looks right to me.	23:41
sbaur	sorry I keep forcing you to go back to the distant past...	23:41
@preaction	yeah, should be right	23:41
sbaur	I was afraid of that...	23:42
@frodwith	maybe you have a different problem. I don't know what that would be, but.	23:42
sbaur	well, i will poke and prod, and see if enlightenment can be achieved	23:42
@frodwith	preaction: if you're doing the stuff in that synopsis in more than one place, I'd really rather you write a wrapper.	23:43
@frodwith	I probably didn't write one because of the namespace problem....	23:43
@frodwith	but also possibly because it was only used in one place	23:43
@preaction	and i won't write one because of the same problem, the original ProgressBar isn't deprecated yet	23:43
@frodwith	and YAGNI	23:43
@frodwith	well, name it something different then	23:44
@frodwith	cause recommending that people cut and paste that trash is kind of evil	23:44
@preaction	eh, right now i only need it in two places	23:44
@frodwith	although. A wrapper wouldn't be much shorter.	23:44
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@preaction	and i've been copy/pasting a lot, leaving myself notes to go back and refactor that i'll never get to do	23:45
@frodwith	now I seem to remember going off to write a wrapper and then going.... "this isn't helping anything!"	23:45
@preaction	sorry, not a lot, but more often than i'd like, which is 0	23:45
@preaction	yeah, it's not so bad. it's just the sub { JSON->new->encode( ... ) } repetition that i wanted to remove	23:46
@preaction	and, honestly, i wonder why WebGUI::ProgressTree is seperate from WebGUI::Fork::ProgressTree	23:46
@frodwith	because one is a view and one is a model	23:46
@preaction	i think we discussed this, but i meh	23:46
@frodwith	i mean, theoretically, you could have a progresstree status and only render a progressbar	23:47
@frodwith	which i think you said you were going to do for some of your helpers	23:47
@preaction	yeah, is already being done	23:47
@preaction	only reason i'm not using tree right now is that all the products on the site are not going to come back in a nice tree at all	23:48
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--- Day changed Wed Mar 30 2011
@preaction	i can't have cute messages in webgui core can i?	00:26
@preaction	like when exporting products: "Dispensing Product..."	00:26
@preaction	http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/934386-portal/faqs/50477 <- Portal script	00:26
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+perlDreamer	dumb question: in TT, can you have variable names with spaces?	00:48
@pbcj	heh	00:49
@preaction	not that i'm aware of	00:50
@pbcj	?!!	00:50
@preaction	but maybe, using the hash syntax	00:50
+perlDreamer	we can bury it as a hash key though	00:50
@preaction	but really, thingy should stop using guids for field ids	00:51
+perlDreamer	then you have the same problem as the DataForm with making safe field names from user input	00:51
@preaction	is that problem insurmountible?	00:51
+perlDreamer	if you ask certain WebGUI users who don't like the way that's handled, yes	00:52
@pbcj	add a "field name" field to thing data?	00:52
+perlDreamer	because everyone has a different idea as to how it should be done	00:52
@preaction	having guids as the field Ids just makes thingy impossible to program against	00:52
@preaction	fieldname = lc && /[a-z_-]+/ <- done	00:52
+perlDreamer	that's what it does	00:53
+perlDreamer	they don't like that	00:53
@preaction	perfect!	00:53
@preaction	why not?	00:53
+perlDreamer	we changed the case	00:53
@preaction	oh right	00:53
@preaction	too bad	00:53
@preaction	maybe the problem is we did it without warning them?	00:53
@preaction	otherwise, we can make it ignore case in all circumstances fairly easily	00:54
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+perlDreamer	well, for the most part the end user doesn't have to deal with it	01:16
+perlDreamer	but if you want to write a custom workflow that uses the DataForm entry data	01:16
+perlDreamer	then you have to know the secret sauce for creating fieldIds from field names/labels	01:17
+perlDreamer	and that's where people are going, "Why did you muck around with my field names, suckah?"	01:17
@preaction	so there should be an API then?	01:18
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+perlDreamer	an API would do it, sure	01:58
+perlDreamer	anything that's better than $session->url->makeCompliant :)	01:59
@preaction	yes, considering it's nothing like url encoding	02:00
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@pbcj	any ops here?	03:08
@preaction	nope	03:40
@preaction	uh. you're here	03:40
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@pbcj	lol	03:57
@pbcj	s/y o/y other o/	03:57
@preaction	yo yo yo!	03:57
@pbcj	my vote is ++cuteMessages	04:00
@pbcj	you should really be able to liquidate assets	04:00
@preaction	what i want is to genericize them more. shelf's main remaining feature is getting products by keyword and adding some template variables	04:01
@pbcj	so much to learn =(	04:06
@pbcj	skus and products and variants, oh my	04:06
CIA-17	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rc214c42 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix the search box in the Underground Style template. Fixes bug #12075 - http://bit.ly/h5dddm	05:51
CIA-17	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd9bbcc3 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix the search box in the Underground Style template. Fixes bug #12075 - http://bit.ly/egN6iB	05:54
CIA-17	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r83cb3ec / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade package to the correct location. - http://bit.ly/hz5KIG	05:54
CIA-17	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * raf15289 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix text in asset icon context menu. Fixes bug #12084. - http://bit.ly/h2XH5A	05:57
CIA-17	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r6227a46 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix text in asset icon context menu. Fixes bug #12084. - http://bit.ly/eZR3xp	05:58
CIA-17	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * red83f47 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade package to the correct location. - http://bit.ly/hBYjT6	05:58
+perlDreamer	I hate it when I break my own rules	06:06
CIA-17	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rcdb903f / (47 files in 24 dirs): Ready for 7.9.25 release. - http://bit.ly/hwMoVC	06:19
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CIA-17	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rbbbed01 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.26 development. - http://bit.ly/f1B3xr	07:13
+perlDreamer	got 'er done!	07:21
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@preaction	yay!	07:24
@preaction	so did I	07:24
CIA-17	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r380b9c7 / www/extras/admin/admin.js : show fork dialog when a helper forks - http://bit.ly/egoFCH	07:27
CIA-17	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r01844b6 / (3 files in 2 dirs): migrate import and export products to Asset Helpers - http://bit.ly/hoGgOG	07:27
CIA-17	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r1ae7a3c / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Subscription.pm : fat-finger - http://bit.ly/hh9qxI	07:27
@preaction	yay!	07:27
CIA-17	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * ra45cdec / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Product.pm : add import/export helpers to the Product asset too - http://bit.ly/i02Lhn	07:29
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-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.9.25-stable \| 7.10.12-beta \| WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com		09:04
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Trebbor	Hello	10:19
xdanger	hello	12:09
xdanger	Trebbor: you had a question about user management yesterday.	12:09
Trebbor	Yes, that's right.	12:10
xdanger	I have the same problem with a project	12:10
xdanger	and with groups	12:10
Trebbor	That's nice to know.	12:10
xdanger	but I think that we could write a configurable user/group management as an content handler	12:10
xdanger	(well not that different from an asset, but still)	12:11
Trebbor	I'm looking into content handlers right now, didn't know what you meant..	12:12
@preaction	i'm going to bed, but if it's a content handler, i will find it a lot easier to make it an admin console plugin in WebGUI 8	12:14
Trebbor	But the problem now is that the admin console is a different style, not the default page style. Will this be different in WebGUI 8?	12:15
@preaction	yes, kinda. admin plugins have complete control over their page	12:15
@preaction	but then, so do operations, really	12:16
@preaction	what i'd like to do is have a default User admin plugin you could subclass for your own purposes	12:16
@preaction	and in 8, admin plugins are usable outside the "admin console", which is just a wrapper around an iframe really	12:16
Trebbor	Ah, that's cool.	12:17
@preaction	the final steps are making the admin console just another asset, and making the account system another asset too (and renaming it profile)	12:18
Trebbor	That makes sense.	12:19
@preaction	yeah, but those are long-term goals. short-term, Admin plugins are probably what you want: singleton applications	12:20
@preaction	in the 7.x parlance, it's either a Content handler or an Operation	12:20
@preaction	anyway, sleep now	12:21
Trebbor	Ok, thanks for the information. :)	12:21
Trebbor	Is there any timeframe on WebGUI 8?	12:22
Trebbor	Then I know if I just should wait for 8 or already build something for 7	12:22
Trebbor	xdagner: I looked at the content handlers, I think you then have to use it in combination with a SQL report for searching en editing users? And let the content handler just write the changes to the database?	12:31
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Trebbor	xdanger I mean.. :)	12:31
xdanger	Trebbor: you can have a whole application in a content handler. it just needs to have more functionality than an asset, since it get's none of thouse automaticaly	12:55
Trebbor	That's true, you can read also ofcourse. Like the products in your cart. That's also a content handler.	13:26
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