| --- Log opened Tue Feb 01 00:00:12 2011 | ||
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| @preaction | ahh... so after 30 minutes i figure out that WebGUI can only upload files if you have JS enabled. so not through Mechanize... | 00:22 |
|---|---|---|
| @preaction | so now we'll add one that JS can override if it's enabled | 00:24 |
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| elnino | hi! | 02:21 |
| elnino | I saw that the 7.9 is going to use plack? | 02:21 |
| elnino | (If I remember correctly....) | 02:21 |
| elnino | how soon is 7.9 coming out as stable? | 02:22 |
| @preaction | you mean 8? | 02:25 |
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| elnino | preaction.. sure.. version 8 -thats the one that patrick talked about during the conference? being able to run on "cheap" hosts? | 02:43 |
| @preaction | able, perhaps, just not well | 02:46 |
| @preaction | this summer, most likely | 02:46 |
| elnino | I think this is a wonderful thing!!!! people will get hooked. I think it's imporant that somehow we get linked in with cpanel, or make it cpanalable, alot of these companies use that, do you think that will be possible? | 02:48 |
| @preaction | it's possible, of course. will it be done? that's anybody's guess | 02:48 |
| elnino | is that something that has to be written? or something we have to talk to cpanel people about? | 02:50 |
| @preaction | a cpanel plugin would just have to be written afaik | 02:51 |
| @preaction | but webgui doesn't perform well under CGI, so you'd have to fix that too | 02:51 |
| @preaction | really, that isn't my target audience anyway. i prefer the medium to large businesses | 02:52 |
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| @preaction | also, timezones need to die. that is all. | 03:51 |
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| CIA-78 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf077c28 / (2 files in 2 dirs): migrate EMS www_importEvents to FormBuilder (+9 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/dVPXUd | 04:39 |
| @preaction | EMS is hard to migrate | 04:41 |
| @preaction | Haarg: if you have a minute sometime, could you look at https://github.com/plainblack/webgui/commit/03f64cbf1a93b6cb6b24627d031bee7af077e522 and tell me if i'm doing something evil or wrong? | 04:41 |
| @preaction | i needed that commit for https://github.com/plainblack/webgui/commit/be3052ce6dadbd193a0a08ac2922761cdccaaf01 | 04:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: got time for some Underground CSS talk? | 04:44 |
| @preaction | i can try, go for it | 04:44 |
| +perlDreamer | the CSS has a label : { display: block; } in it | 04:45 |
| +perlDreamer | this is messing up radio boxes, check lists | 04:46 |
| +perlDreamer | for fun, I removed it in Firebug, and everything looked fine on the site | 04:46 |
| +perlDreamer | and label doesn't seem to be used anywhere else | 04:46 |
| +perlDreamer | since you ported over the original design, any clue as to why that's in there? | 04:46 |
| @preaction | label is probably used everywhere, it is at least used in the new forms, the ones without tables | 04:46 |
| @preaction | and there it will need to be block | 04:47 |
| @preaction | is there a way to determine if it's a label for a checkbox or radio button and act accordingly? | 04:47 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think so | 04:47 |
| @preaction | i.e. do we have a class name for the field type? | 04:48 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 04:48 |
| @preaction | that might be a good idea, as otherwise we'll have problems in 8 | 04:49 |
| @preaction | though for 7, it shouldn't matter, and for 8 we can fix it then | 04:49 |
| @preaction | which file is it in? i only edited the underground-webgui.css | 04:50 |
| +perlDreamer | it's in undeground.css | 04:50 |
| @preaction | the other one is just straight from the source. if you want to change anything, add it to underground-webgui.css | 04:50 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8ae16ba / (8 files in 8 dirs): (log message trimmed) | 05:06 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Have the Calendar iCal feed pass along the timeZone of events. Fixes bug #12030. | 05:06 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Squashed commit of the following: | 05:06 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: commit ce957db5311c7fb11c7d780b9f63c1b0adc17cda | 05:06 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Author: Colin Kuskie <colink@perldreamer.com> | 05:06 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Date: Mon Jan 31 19:00:23 2011 -0800 | 05:06 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Changelog notice for the ical bugfix with timezones. | 05:06 |
| +perlDreamer | good thing squashed commits get truncated | 05:06 |
| +perlDreamer | CIA could have been kicked for flooding | 05:07 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r6b0d7c1 / (8 files in 8 dirs): (log message trimmed) | 05:08 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Have the Calendar iCal feed pass along the timeZone of events. Fixes bug #12030. | 05:08 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Squashed commit of the following: | 05:08 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: commit ce957db5311c7fb11c7d780b9f63c1b0adc17cda | 05:08 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Author: Colin Kuskie <colink@perldreamer.com> | 05:08 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Date: Mon Jan 31 19:00:23 2011 -0800 | 05:08 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Changelog notice for the ical bugfix with timezones. | 05:08 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rdc63a19 / lib/WebGUI/ICal.pm : Add POD for WebGUI::ICal - http://bit.ly/fK4vWr | 05:26 |
| +perlDreamer | crap | 05:26 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I just outdated your newly released WRE | 05:26 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7b700d0 / lib/WebGUI/ICal.pm : Add POD for WebGUI::ICal - http://bit.ly/gEWkqS | 05:26 |
| @preaction | yay! | 05:26 |
| @preaction | eh, it doesn't have everything anyway, it was more the ability to compile cpan modules that was added | 05:27 |
| +perlDreamer | the dependencies weren't upgraded? | 05:28 |
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| @preaction | there was no real release | 05:38 |
| @preaction | i mean, i did what i could, but they haven't changed since koen changed them, unless they failed to compile, then i updated them | 05:38 |
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| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8d36e79 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.21 release - http://bit.ly/evw1rl | 06:35 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r94b6f89 / lib/WebGUI/ICal.pm : no parent yet, use base instead. - http://bit.ly/gA0rf2 | 07:05 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf107468 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.22 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/gMEE6l | 07:18 |
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| Haarg | preaction, re: the change you asked about, i don't like it but i don't know if there are any other options. | 10:31 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings from the frozen midwest! | 16:40 |
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| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reb8fa8f / lib/WebGUI/ICal.pm : no parent yet, use base instead. - http://bit.ly/e4n8yO | 18:22 |
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| scrottie0 | 13,000 lines of garbage in Log::Log4perl. | 23:39 |
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| --- Day changed Wed Feb 02 2011 | ||
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| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5b07ab3 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm): Allow anyone who can edit an asset to create a shortcut to it. - http://bit.ly/euGs2i | 00:27 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rdca29b9 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm): Allow anyone who can edit an asset to create a shortcut to it. - http://bit.ly/ifbc5a | 00:27 |
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| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra0867dd / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Fork/ProgressBar.pm): Show different styles based on whether a user is in admin mode, or not. Fixes bug #12032. - http://bit.ly/evxV8k | 02:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, is 3 weeks long enough to wait for a reply to a bug? | 02:44 |
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| scrottie0 | hey socks! | 02:58 |
| socks | hey scrottie! | 02:58 |
| socks | I done got disconnected over thar. | 02:58 |
| scrottie0 | looks like something went wrong with the 'new server tab' bit | 02:58 |
| scrottie0 | yeah. | 02:58 |
| socks | I clicked the wrong menu option. | 02:59 |
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| socks | Can you remind me of the whole sequence for weehours again? | 02:59 |
| socks | oh no, wait, nevermind | 02:59 |
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| elnino | hey. What does mod_proxy do in regards to webgui? | 06:47 |
| @preaction | serves static content quickly and efficiently | 06:47 |
| elnino | static content? like cached? | 06:47 |
| @preaction | anything in /extras and /uploads | 06:49 |
| elnino | oh. yep, that makes sense. Thanks. | 06:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | bartjol: people are saying mean things about the Dutch again | 18:03 |
| +bartjol | who are? | 18:03 |
| +perlDreamer | http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_0_0_t&usg=AFQjCNFJrnmbReN0DANRJWPWCkRwz5LsJg&cid=17593856005715&ei=sYBJTYCFKJ_AlASPm8MC&rt=SEARCH&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fhostednews%2Fap%2Farticle%2FALeqM5i1YeBmzSamxIjr7VVrvAQ268hVqA%3FdocId%3D41ad47535aba44aa967d5f5c8066399d | 18:05 |
| +perlDreamer | AP news | 18:05 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5c57e33 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix rendering issues with radio buttons and checkbox lists in the Underground style. - http://bit.ly/fVZHOI | 18:21 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * ra3db5dc / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix rendering issues with radio buttons and checkbox lists in the Underground style. - http://bit.ly/ibxmju | 18:22 |
| +bartjol | well | 18:31 |
| +bartjol | strange people | 18:31 |
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| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7cb1fa9 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Update versions of *::Packer to get rid of regexp variables that slow down all regexen. Fixes bug #11704. - http://bit.ly/e8YhJe | 21:01 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8da15e2 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Update versions of *::Packer to get rid of regexp variables that slow down all regexen. Fixes bug #11704. - http://bit.ly/gVphNl | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: if I ask a question back on a bug report, and get no answer back for 2-3 weeks, can I close it out? | 21:10 |
| @preaction | yep | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | w00t! | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd like to have that on the board itself, but it's locked by someone with an uncommitted version tag | 21:12 |
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| scrottie0 | buu-! | 22:15 |
| scrottie0 | buu_! | 22:15 |
| +perlDreamer | frodwith, you rock! | 22:18 |
| +perlDreamer | Fork/ProgressBar is exactly what I need | 22:18 |
| +perlDreamer | now, if it was only written in Perl so I could understand it | 22:18 |
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| @preaction | and with this push, all the EMS www_ forms are tested. | 23:26 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r0d45c66 / t/supporting_collateral/ems_events.csv : forgot test collateral file - http://bit.ly/gRccHr | 23:26 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r0a67593 / (2 files in 2 dirs): migrate EMS manageRegistrant to FormBuilder - http://bit.ly/gMktjk | 23:26 |
| @preaction | the work continues! | 23:26 |
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| --- Day changed Thu Feb 03 2011 | ||
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| scrottie0 | hrm. HandlerSocker is almost twice as fast as DBI for doing Asset::assetDbProperties, even with multiple round trip requests to get data from each table. | 00:37 |
| scrottie0 | too bad it doesn't do compound keys. | 00:38 |
| @preaction | hmm... if we added a versionId, it wouldn't need a compound key. versionId would be unique | 00:39 |
| @preaction | 100% speedup is something worth fighting for | 00:40 |
| scrottie0 | I don't like your choice of name but technically that would work. | 00:40 |
| @preaction | we've been kicking around the idea for a while, the asset table would refer to the currentRevisionId and then assetData would have revisionId and so would the other tables | 00:40 |
| scrottie0 | that feels a lot cleaner. | 00:41 |
| @preaction | less work than doing a subselect, more sane, and apparently easier to translate to even better stuff like this thing | 00:41 |
| scrottie0 | call it an 'instance', implying a specific instance of a given asset, maybe. | 00:42 |
| scrottie0 | version vs revision is just going to bring about confusion. | 00:42 |
| @preaction | it'd be revision, sorry. my other system uses "version" instead of "revision" | 00:43 |
| @preaction | revisionId, and currentRevisionId | 00:43 |
| scrottie0 | https://github.com/scrottie/webgui/commit/ca454ecdf73974e0df20efba6e307e5399ea6de5 # fwiw | 00:52 |
| @preaction | danke. i'll add it to my new list of stuff for the future | 00:53 |
| @preaction | is handlersocket easy to install? | 00:54 |
| scrottie0 | I found it easy to be, yeah. | 00:54 |
| @preaction | if it's performance we're going for, i don't want it to be optional, but if it can't be relied on across our supported infra, we'll have to make it conditional | 00:55 |
| @preaction | which i suppose isn't a problem if we keep one socket open for the server process and then if we don't have it, go back to SQL | 00:56 |
| @preaction | which sounds like something that should be hidden away, deep and dark, in some instantiation routine | 00:56 |
| scrottie0 | you're going to need a DBI connection for anything non-trivial anyway. | 00:56 |
| @preaction | right, but we may or may not have the handlersocket connection | 00:57 |
| scrottie0 | using one of two (or more) assetDbProperties implementies and optimizing some WebGUI::SQL cases seems to make sense. | 00:57 |
| @preaction | so in order of performance, we have the cache (post-processed db data), handlersocket (nosql db data), dbi (sql data) | 00:57 |
| scrottie0 | er, conditionally optimizing them. | 00:58 |
| @preaction | yeah, it'll be well-hidden and DTRT as possible | 00:58 |
| @preaction | just makes me wish we had a standard Model class that could hide this for everything. groups/users would be even better for performance, they're accessed multiple times per asset | 00:58 |
| @preaction | but anyway, wishes and fishes | 00:59 |
| scrottie0 | yeah. sometimes it seems like WebGUI's mission in life is to compute SQL. | 00:59 |
| @preaction | yeah, marketing guys call that "Data-driven" | 00:59 |
| scrottie0 | I don't see any good way of abstracting that out. | 00:59 |
| @preaction | not in our current situation, no | 01:00 |
| scrottie0 | you could do the "template class" thing and push the implementation of the data fetching methods to the subclasses and use factories to come up with the right one... but that would be like snorting kittens. | 01:02 |
| scrottie0 | http://i.imgur.com/4t9Jd.gif | 01:02 |
| @preaction | mmm kitten huffing. the orange ones fuck you up REAL GOOD | 01:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie0: how does HandlerSocket get username and password for the db? | 01:48 |
| @preaction | probably doesn't. localhost only i'd suspect | 02:09 |
| @preaction | like memcached does it | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | it must ride on top of an existing socket | 02:14 |
| +perlDreamer | letting DBI make the connection and authenticate it | 02:14 |
| @preaction | no, creates its own socket | 02:14 |
| +perlDreamer | so on a shared hosting account, you could snarf someone else's database? | 02:14 |
| @preaction | if you had shell access, probably | 02:16 |
| @preaction | but if you had a shell, you could get at a lot of things | 02:16 |
| +perlDreamer | but there's a PHP version of this thing, too | 02:17 |
| @preaction | eh, doesn't concern me. doesn't seem like a shared hosting kind of thing anyway | 02:17 |
| @preaction | so we should probably make it optional just for that reason | 02:17 |
| @preaction | but if you had it, performance baby! | 02:18 |
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| scrottie0 | sorry, wandered into another window. yeah, there's no auth. | 03:17 |
| scrottie0 | if you can connect to the port, you have unlimited read/write privs. | 03:17 |
| scrottie0 | it isn't even restricted to localhost. | 03:18 |
| scrottie0 | hrm, this is kinda begging for just a little less minimalism on it | 03:18 |
| scrottie0 | it reads some parameters from my.conf. the interfaces to listen on should be among them, but as far as I know, aren't. the thing is on github. I say we fork it. | 03:20 |
| scrottie0 | oh, heh, the XS is C++. | 03:36 |
| scrottie0 | and they have their own string package named after their company, DeNA. | 03:37 |
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| elnino | I don't have a webgui server accessible to me anymore, but I need to give instruction to someone who does.... is wre.conf in /data/wre/etc? | 06:33 |
| elnino | and if I change any of the settings in the wre.conf, how do I make those chagnes effective? | 06:36 |
| scrottie0 | /data/wre/etc/wre.conf | 06:37 |
| scrottie0 | don't know. I'm guessing the commands that use the wre.conf look at it when you invoke them... | 06:38 |
| scrottie0 | sorry, on my way out | 06:38 |
| elnino | that's ok. Thanks scrottie0 | 06:38 |
| elnino | hi. is there anyone at webgui that could figure out what hte new urls for the following may possibly be? | 06:48 |
| elnino | http://www.webgui.org/install/upgrade_help/sslsessioncache-help | 06:48 |
| elnino | http://www.webgui.org/install/upgrade_help/problems-with-wremonitor | 06:48 |
| elnino | I don't know if those were links to a forum, or documentation or what. | 06:48 |
| elnino | ah. it appears that there used to be a install/upgrade help forum.. Where did it go? | 06:51 |
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| * perlDreamer goes to the gym | 18:47 | |
| * scrottie0 reads HandlerSocket source code... | 19:07 | |
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| CIA-78 | webgui: Paul Driver master * r4a5196a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetExportHtml.pm): fixed #12033: scratch variable problems during export - http://bit.ly/fTsWzT | 21:51 |
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| Trex | Hey folks. I have a question about group caching for visitors: any chance of disabling it, or is that feature too deeply ingrained in how WebGUI works? | 22:39 |
| Trex | I'd be happy with either disabling it on a site-wide basis, though per-server would be OK for my current situation. | 22:39 |
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| Trex | Sorry...was trying the latest Trillian for IRC on a new laptop, but seemed to be having problems. | 22:44 |
| Trex | Did my question about caching and visitor groups make it through? | 22:44 |
| Haarg | yes | 22:44 |
| @preaction | why would the visitor group be cached? visitor = !registered user | 22:44 |
| @preaction | or do you mean the site's browser cache for visitors? | 22:45 |
| Trex | Sorry...I guess I wasn't clear enough -- the groups that visitors may belong to, via scratch variables, for example. | 22:45 |
| @preaction | in later versions, there's a global cache timeout setting that you can set | 22:46 |
| @preaction | a scratch-only group should probably set the cache timeout to something small | 22:46 |
| Trex | When I was chatting with you folks about the visitor group bug that was fixed a handful of versions ago, one of you said that visitors' group memberships are cached by default for 1 minute...if I recall correct. | 22:46 |
| Haarg | what is the problem you are having that you want to solve? | 22:47 |
| Trex | Perhaps this will help illustrate the problem: http://dev.sofawolf.com/ | 22:47 |
| Trex | The "Show adult content" link in the upper right should allow visitors to toggle into and out of a group that allows them to opt in/out of viewing certain content. | 22:48 |
| Trex | It works great for authenticated users, who are shown the group-add and group-delete links, but most of our site visitors are going to be visitors. | 22:48 |
| Trex | For them, I'm using a scratch variable, but it only seems to work about 1/2 the time. | 22:49 |
| Trex | (Don't worry, there is no adult content to be viewed on this page. It's just a demo) | 22:49 |
| Trex | The graphic to the right should switch to show whether the user has opted to view adult content. | 22:50 |
| Haarg | what are you using to detect the scratch value? | 22:50 |
| Trex | The scratch value is used to allow the visitor to join a group. So the group membership of the visitor's session determines what is viewed. | 22:51 |
| Trex | ...also, I should mention that because I thought group memberships for visitors were cached for a minute, I have added a bit of javascript that hides the link to toggle back for a minute, to avoid confusion for users. | 22:52 |
| Trex | (I should also note that I've checked the cache settings on the group itself and also the snippet that addes the toggle link and graphic to the template.) | 22:55 |
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| Haarg | ah, scratch users. never noticed that feature before somehow. | 22:57 |
| Trex | I'd be happy to try another approach, but since WebGUI already has this great buit-in ability to manage what you see on the page (including sub-secitons of the page) via groups, I planned on using the group-to-view property to manage what people see, and then let them opt in/out by joining/leaving the group. | 23:01 |
| Trex | However, you can't use the group-add and group-delete macros for vistors, which is why I went to scratch variables. | 23:01 |
| @preaction | i'd build a custom macro that would use two groups: one for registered users, one for visitors using session scratch and having a tiny cache timeout | 23:02 |
| Haarg | there should be a cache timeout setting on each group | 23:03 |
| Haarg | you should be able to edit that for the groups you are dealing with | 23:04 |
| Trex | I have the cache for the current group set to 0 seconds. It shouldn't be caching anything. | 23:04 |
| @preaction | the page caches its contents for 60 seconds | 23:04 |
| Trex | I'm also digging through the IRC logs to see if I can find where someone said that visitor groups are cached for a certain amount of time, regardles... | 23:04 |
| @preaction | and the site probably is using the browser cache stuff | 23:04 |
| Trex | ...ah, that may be what I was thinking of... | 23:04 |
| Trex | Preaction: Can you explain how this macro would be used? Are you talking about something that would wrap around content and take over WebGUI's group-to-view capabilities? Or are you just talking about the toggle link to opt in/out? | 23:07 |
| +perlDreamer | Trex: In the Page Layout, content is cached for 60 seconds | 23:07 |
| @preaction | just the toggle link. visitors would be in one group, registered users in another group. make a top-level group for "Adult Content" that contains the two groups and you should be fine | 23:08 |
| +perlDreamer | so it's not a group membership cache in that case | 23:08 |
| @preaction | though i'm not sure how cascading cache timeouts work | 23:08 |
| @preaction | if one group has 0 cache, but is contained by a group that has 10 minutes, with the cache last 10 minutes? | 23:08 |
| @preaction | maybe our cache strategy is just wrong. maybe we should keep a cache of group memberships by session instead | 23:09 |
| @preaction | i do want to eventually promote more anonymous interaction with websites, esp. in the case of Forums | 23:10 |
| Trex | perlDreamer: when you say content is cached for 60s in the Layout, is that per user session, or in general? If, for example, one visitor clicked the opt-in button, would the cached content be seen by other visitors, or just that visitor's session? | 23:11 |
| Haarg | preaction, group memberships are cached per session for visitors | 23:11 |
| @preaction | ah, nm then | 23:12 |
| Haarg | but stuff like scratch variables don't know to invalidate that cache | 23:12 |
| Haarg | the page caching strategy is wrong, but that's not as easy to solve | 23:12 |
| @preaction | but the custom macro could invalidate the cache as needed, which would eliminate the need for the two groups and allow you to set a long cache timeout | 23:13 |
| Trex | What about allowing visitors to join a group directly, with the GroupAdd and GroupDelete macros? Would that bypass any of these issues? Or is there something fundamental about visitors that you can't have them joining groups that way? | 23:14 |
| @preaction | visitor is one user id. if visitor joins a group, all people who are "visitor" are joined to that group | 23:15 |
| @preaction | visitor is not a real user, it's a representation of the state of not being a user, which is useful when you need the not-logged-in people to be able to do things | 23:15 |
| Haarg | from the sound of it, what you are doing is already taking care of the group membership problem | 23:15 |
| Haarg | i remember one problem i was having that resulted in being logged in as visitor. that was an odd one. | 23:16 |
| Trex | preaction: I'm willing to try the macro, but I'm not familiar with the caching API at all. Is there a straight forward way to clear out the cache for a particular session? | 23:18 |
| @preaction | $group->deleteCache iirc | 23:18 |
| @preaction | or uncache or something | 23:18 |
| Trex | That would clear the cache for the whole group at once? | 23:19 |
| Haarg | yes | 23:19 |
| @preaction | so your macro would be something like "ShowGroupToggle(groupId,html_to_enable,html_to_disable);" | 23:19 |
| @preaction | hm... crap. just being a macro wouldn't work would it? you'd need a page to go to that could perform the actual action | 23:19 |
| @preaction | isn't that what the self-adding groups operations do? | 23:20 |
| @preaction | but it adds the user, not the session... | 23:20 |
| Haarg | it still sounds more likely that the page caching is causing your problems | 23:20 |
| Haarg | and even if it isn't it will likely cause problems once the group issues are sorted | 23:22 |
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| Trex | Haarg: Yes, that seems likely. It's great fun trying to figure out whether caching issues are on the browser or server end, too. | 23:25 |
| Trex | The 60s Page Layout caching -- that's just for the visitors, right? | 23:27 |
| @preaction | yes | 23:29 |
| Haarg | 60 second page layout caching is for visitors only. if there are any query parameters, it will not be used. it is cached for the entire site, so different users coming the the same address within 60 seconds will see the same content. | 23:29 |
| Haarg | so your two options are to not use page layouts, or to turn on prevent proxy caching (ugh) | 23:30 |
| Trex | Oh fun! I did that (prevent proxy caching) a while back -- caused more confusion among users than it prevented. | 23:31 |
| Trex | ...and your comment about caching to users coming from the same address explains some of my confusion when testing the toggle link with two different browsers on the same computer. I wondered if that might be the case. | 23:32 |
| Trex | I was going to ask about content not viewed in a page layout, like Products, for example. Those would not suffer the same problem? | 23:33 |
| Haarg | if they are viewed on their own they aren't effected | 23:34 |
| Trex | Hmmm...there are some parts of the site that would be a challenge to implement without page layouts. | 23:38 |
| Haarg | how is this site hosted? | 23:40 |
| Trex | PlainBlack! | 23:40 |
| Trex | When you say that Page Layouts are cached, does that mean just the Page Layout container (but not the content) is cached, or is the whole page as rendered cached, if the page happens to use the Page Layout asset? | 23:42 |
| Haarg | the entire rendered page | 23:42 |
| Haarg | ah. i don't know the timetable for a stable 7.10 release or a hosting upgrade, but you might convince someone to add some simple options like turning off the 60 second page cache. | 23:43 |
| Trex | I have some karma to spend. :) | 23:44 |
| Trex | Would it be easier or better to make disabling of the 60 second cache conditional -- only for visitors in certain groups, or only visitors for whom scratch variables have been set? | 23:45 |
| Haarg | it would give you more power but would add a lot of complexity | 23:45 |
| Haarg | and calculating groups is potentially expensive, where the point of the cache is to make those kinds of page accesses really simple. | 23:46 |
| Haarg | an option to disable the page cache would be pretty simple to add if they would accept it. | 23:47 |
| Trex | I presume that the caching was added in the first place because it improved efficiency of sites --especially busy ones... | 23:47 |
| Trex | Do you think it would have much of a performance hit on a generally low-traffic site? | 23:48 |
| Haarg | probably not | 23:48 |
| Haarg | preaction would know when 7.10 will go stable and if it is likely to make it onto hosting servers in a time frame that works for you | 23:49 |
| @preaction | 7.10 goes stable when 8.0 goes beta | 23:49 |
| @preaction | so, Summer | 23:49 |
| Haarg | ah | 23:49 |
| Haarg | i was thinking 7.10 had been around for a while but i haven't been keeping track | 23:50 |
| Trex | It's not an option for 7.9 because it would break the API? | 23:50 |
| Haarg | it's a new feature, and new features don't go into stable releases | 23:51 |
| @preaction | it has been around for a while | 23:51 |
| Trex | I guess I'll go ahead and put in an RFE for it and dump in my karma... | 23:53 |
| Trex | Our site is still undergoing development, but I'm hoping to take it live by spring. | 23:54 |
| Haarg | so did you verify that the group cache timeout on all of the groups you are working with is set to 0? | 23:54 |
| Trex | PB folks: is this something that we could perhaps contract out to get a 7.9 patch for, if added to 7.10? | 23:54 |
| Haarg | a change like that would apply to 7.9 just as easily as it would to 7.10 | 23:55 |
| Haarg | it's just not the kind of thing that gets added to a stable release | 23:55 |
| Trex | So once implemented, we could look at the diffs and monkeypatch until 7.10? | 23:56 |
| scrottie0 | Trex, how much access to this site? | 23:56 |
| @preaction | if you're installing prerelease features, you need your own server. we don't monkeypatch our shared servers | 23:56 |
| scrottie0 | preaction answered my question. | 23:57 |
| Trex | preaction: we have a VM, so I could handle the monkeypatching myself. | 23:57 |
| Trex | I forgot that not everyone hosted by PB has the same arrangement, so I forgot to mention that. | 23:57 |
| scrottie0 | or not. | 23:58 |
| Haarg | in that case, yeah it would be pretty easy to backport a change like that | 23:58 |
| Trex | OK, cool...so going all the way back to the issue that brought up this discussion, once page layouts are no longer cached, I believe my problems should be resolved... | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Fri Feb 04 2011 | ||
| Haarg | not quite i don't think | 00:00 |
| Trex | Visitors can join/leave the group using scratch variables, and authenticated users can join/leave the same (or another) group. | 00:00 |
| Haarg | the basic approach you are using should work | 00:00 |
| Haarg | but something isn't working quite right on your site | 00:00 |
| @preaction | i wouldn't ask for a contract to just change the page caching. i'd ask for a contract to do exactly what you need. it may not be the page caching at all | 00:00 |
| Haarg | even aside from the page caching | 00:00 |
| Trex | Well, I haven't tested the link on a non-page-layout page. Hold on a few while I do that. | 00:01 |
| Haarg | if you go the contract route it would probably be best to just get something that is exactly what you want, yeah | 00:01 |
| Haarg | the page caching doesn't happen if there are any query variables | 00:02 |
| Trex | All the other content on the site is locked down for the moment, so I'll have to find a product or something, make it visible to everyone and test the toggle link. | 00:02 |
| scrottie0 | or if isExporting is set in scratch ;) | 00:02 |
| Haarg | so when you click the link, the next page has the ?op=setScratch;scratchName=adult_visitor;scratchValue=1 stuff on it | 00:02 |
| Haarg | so it won't use the 60 second cache for that page view | 00:03 |
| Haarg | and the link still doesn't seem to be toggling correctly | 00:03 |
| scrottie0 | Trex, are you confident in Perl source code files on this server? I could describe a manual change to disable caching. | 00:03 |
| Haarg | so there are a few things it could be. it might be that one of the groups you are using has a cache timeout > 0 set. | 00:04 |
| Trex | Haarg: I think I misunderstood something you said earlier about the caching being unaffected by the query string, then. | 00:04 |
| scrottie0 | er, disable caching on the Layout. | 00:04 |
| Haarg | or it could be something in how you are adding it to the page | 00:04 |
| Haarg | like if you were assetproxying in a snippet or something | 00:04 |
| Haarg | if there is a query string, it doesn't use the page cache | 00:05 |
| Trex | scrottie0: I have monkeypatched before, so I'd be willing to give your manual change a look. | 00:05 |
| Trex | Haarg: the links are part of a snippet...but I've checked that the snipped has cache set to 0 seconds. | 00:06 |
| Haarg | so as long as there is a query string (like when clicking the link a bunch to toggle it), that part of the problem won't show up. of course, an actual visitor will view pages without a query string so it still needs to be solved. | 00:07 |
| scrottie0 | in /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm, search for "sub www_view". a few lines in is a comment "slashdot / burst protection hack" and then an if statement after that. inside of the if's ( ), right before the closing ), add: && 0 | 00:07 |
| scrottie0 | on its own line. | 00:07 |
| scrottie0 | that should kill page layout caching, site-wide. | 00:07 |
| * perlDreamer shudders. One does not lightly kill WebGUI! | 00:08 | |
| scrottie0 | one doesn't lightly kill caching either. | 00:08 |
| Haarg | what scrottie0 is describing might be a good way to test stuff if nothing else | 00:08 |
| Trex | Hmmm...the snippet is placed within the crumb trail navigation menu, which is what generates the "Home Demo" link on the left... | 00:09 |
| Trex | So it's a snippet in a navigation template in a page layout. I'd forgotten it got that deep. | 00:09 |
| Trex | Navigations don't have a cache setting you can manage. | 00:10 |
| Haarg | what is url to that snippet? | 00:10 |
| Trex | https://dev.sofawolf.com/visitor_adult_links | 00:13 |
| Trex | There's a modproxy rule to shunt everything except the home page through https at the moment. | 00:14 |
| Trex | ...and a self-signed certificate, so your browser may squack at you. | 00:14 |
| Haarg | so as long as that snippet has its cache timeout set to 0 you should be able to use that to test even without doing anything to the perl code | 00:16 |
| Trex | The image is outside the snippet because this is only for visitors. Authenticated users have different links that show. And then which image is displayed depends on the GroupText macro | 00:16 |
| Trex | Haarg: if anything, your suggestion to look at the snippet alone has made it much easier to track what's going on with the HTTP headers. | 00:32 |
| Trex | When the query string is one that the browser has seen before, it sends a query with an "If-Modified-Since", and the server returns a 304 Content Not Modified. | 00:33 |
| +perlDreamer | you could turn on prevent proxy cache | 00:34 |
| +perlDreamer | but i'll give you ugly URLS | 00:34 |
| Trex | perlDreamer: that's kind of what I'm testing now, only adding random query parameters only to the query string that sets the scratch values, leaving the rest of the site's links alone. | 00:35 |
| Trex | ...but turning on preventing proxy cache is a good idea to try first. | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | ya, and it will do that typing for you | 00:35 |
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| scrottie0 | Trex, http://slowass.net/~scott/tmp/nocache.diff | 01:26 |
| * scrottie0 keeps getting distracted and has to go afk now =| | 01:26 | |
| Trex | Thanks for your help, scrottie0! | 01:26 |
| Trex | I'm still digging away at things here...leaning back to groups being cached for visitors, actually... | 01:27 |
| scrottie0 | caching is something I have strong mixed feelings about. | 01:28 |
| scrottie0 | preaction, comments about adding yet another knob to 7.10? | 01:37 |
| @preaction | is that also bypassing the burst cache thing? | 01:40 |
| sbaur | I know I've solved this problem before, but I can't remember how at the moment. I'm getting the error "Response for www.csumathsuccess.org.conf-pbcron0000000000000004 was redirected." This is on a dev server I just setup, not my live server, so I'm sure it has something to do with my setup. running spectre with --run --debug did not produce any helpful output | 02:09 |
| sbaur | I've gone over my site.modproxy and site.modperl conf files, but didn't see anything that wasn't correct. Any ideas? | 02:13 |
| sbaur | spectre.pl --test has no problems either | 02:13 |
| sbaur | this is still on 7.5.40 | 02:14 |
| sbaur | oh well. I'll look at it in the morning again. Maybe my brain will work then. | 02:16 |
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| Trex | OK, this might be instructive: https://dev.sofawolf.com/visitor_adult_links_demo1 | 02:21 |
| Trex | The top link is the same one I was showing you before, only with a noCache parameter added manually, the second line uses the GroupText macro to show whether or not you are in the group that the scratch variable is supposed to join you to... | 02:22 |
| Trex | The third line shows the scratch value itself, and the last line has a link with a noCache parameter to allow you to refresh the information without (as much) fear of browser caching. | 02:23 |
| Trex | The content is in a snippet that has caching set to 0 seconds. | 02:23 |
| Trex | If you click the toggle link and the scratch value changes, but the group does not, start a stop watch and refresh the page with the bottom link. | 02:25 |
| Trex | After a minute from when the group membership was initially set, you'll see that the group and scratch value come back into synch. | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie0, your patch also needs an update sub | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise, it's going to puke when you try to write to the db | 02:26 |
| Trex | What's interesting is that I have seen a similar delay when logged in, though once the group membership is set, it seems to become permanent, and destroying the session variable doesn't remove you from the group. | 02:28 |
| Trex | Could it be that there's a 60 second cache set on session variable-based groups in general? | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | Trex, you should be able to build a simple test to validate that. | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | create a user to get a userId | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | create a group that works with scratch variables | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | check group membership for the user, it should say "not in group" | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | give the session that scratch variable | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | check again, should say, "in group" | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | then, remove it, and check a third time | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | if group caching has been disabled, it should say, "not in group" | 02:37 |
| Trex | Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to learn testing in WebGUI (if you're talking about writing actual command line perl tests), and I don't have time to learn before I have to leave. | 02:41 |
| Trex | When you say "if group caching has been disabled" are you talking about the cache setting in the group's settings? | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 02:42 |
| scrottie0 | from what I'm reading, layout only has one cache on content. | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | so, when you create the group, set it to 0 | 02:42 |
| scrottie0 | that is the burst cache. unless I'm misunderstanding what is what. | 02:42 |
| scrottie0 | er, re: preaction | 02:43 |
| Trex | Well, I can assure you that the group in question has had the cache setting for 0 seconds (OK, it defaults to "Year(s)") this whole time. | 02:44 |
| Trex | So if you're saying that scratch-filter-based groups should also follow this setting, then we're talking about a potential bug? | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | either that or we don't understand the group code as well as we think we do | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | that happens with collaboratively written code | 02:45 |
| Trex | *nod* Understood | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | also, a well written and documented test is about the best way I can think of to get immediate attention | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | because I don't have to set up a site | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't have to reverse engineer what you ahve | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | you hand me a piece of code, and we go from there | 02:45 |
| Trex | What if I set up a site on the demo server that replicated my current setup and left the default admin password? You could at least go in and check out the configurations until the site got recycled. | 02:47 |
| +perlDreamer | then I have to look at it within 24 hours | 02:47 |
| +perlDreamer | and I have to remotely log into the server and restart it to get new debug code going | 02:47 |
| Trex | Yes, that is the limitation with that. | 02:47 |
| +perlDreamer | and, if we write the test, it stays fixed forever | 02:48 |
| +perlDreamer | because when somebody commits code that breaks tests, then I start raising flags and sending emails and PM's | 02:48 |
| Trex | How late will you be online? Will you still be here in a couple hours? | 02:49 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 02:49 |
| Trex | And would you be willing to help get me started with writing tests? I promise not to ask too many stupid questions. ;) | 02:49 |
| +perlDreamer | sure! | 02:49 |
| Trex | OK...then let's plan on that. Thank you for your assistance...now and in the future. | 02:50 |
| +perlDreamer | you bet :) | 02:50 |
| Trex | All right, catch you all later then! | 02:51 |
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| Trex | I have returned...hopefully to learn something about the magic arts of WebGUI tests. | 04:09 |
| * perlDreamer is back! | 04:43 | |
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| elnino | where can I find the irc logs? electricity went out, and I don't know if people answered my question from last night. =( | 04:45 |
| Trex | Heh. I was just there: http://www.mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/2011-02.log.html | 04:45 |
| elnino | thanks trex | 04:46 |
| elnino | nope... so.. it appears that there used to be a install/upgrade help forum.. Where did it go? | 04:47 |
| +perlDreamer | it was merged into etc | 04:51 |
| +perlDreamer | just one forum, more attention for your question | 04:51 |
| elnino | well, I linked to two threads to that forum from my wiki and those pages seem to be gone. | 04:52 |
| +perlDreamer | you'll probably need to update the URLs then | 04:52 |
| elnino | I'd like to, hence the question. =) | 04:52 |
| elnino | I'll look for them there, or maybe it will be as easy as replaceing /install/upgrade with etc. | 04:53 |
| elnino | fingers crossed | 04:53 |
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| elnino | ok plainblack. I think you're going to get a agency customer. Don't fail me.. =) | 05:46 |
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| elnino | still trying to find http://www.webgui.org/install/upgrade_help/sslsessioncache-help - where did it go? were some forums archived? | 06:09 |
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| +patspam | ahoy | 06:22 |
| elnino | hey! | 06:22 |
| +patspam | hey elnino | 06:22 |
| elnino | way to go with the plasck thing. I'm so excited for webgui! | 06:22 |
| +patspam | yay! | 06:23 |
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| +bartjol | so, fixed another issue in backup.pl | 14:56 |
| +bartjol | accept my pull request! | 15:09 |
| +bartjol | NOW | 15:09 |
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| SDuensin | FrIdAy! | 16:33 |
| +bartjol | is it? | 16:48 |
| +bartjol | but.... tomorrow fosdem | 16:48 |
| SDuensin | fosdem? | 16:49 |
| +bartjol | http://fosdem.org/2011/ | 16:50 |
| SDuensin | Very cool. I knew it sounded familiar. | 16:51 |
| SDuensin | Sadly, I'm from the USA where we like to arrest people for sharing knowledge. | 16:51 |
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| +bartjol | aha, mmm, I should be carefull then if I go to the wuc this year | 17:01 |
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| +bartjol | SDuensin: oh, and you can have the premiere of my supercool renewed and improved backup script | 17:25 |
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| +bartjol | perlDreamer: goodmorning | 17:32 |
| +bartjol | submitted a bugfix again | 17:32 |
| +perlDreamer | good morning, bartjol | 17:32 |
| +perlDreamer | good man! | 17:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I think next week I'll work on a "core-only" wre release | 17:33 |
| +perlDreamer | where we fix bugs in scripts | 17:33 |
| +perlDreamer | but don't update anything else | 17:33 |
| +bartjol | ok, well I changed File.pm | 17:33 |
| +bartjol | to supress tar warnings | 17:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll merge it on Monday | 17:33 |
| +bartjol | cool | 17:33 |
| +bartjol | do you agree with the bug status, btw? | 17:34 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 17:35 |
| +perlDreamer | we'll need to test it with and without absolute paths in the backupDir to check it though | 17:36 |
| +perlDreamer | or have you done that already? | 17:36 |
| +bartjol | well, I thought preload.custom only had absolute paths | 17:38 |
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| +bartjol | it depends on how it is loaded whether it is necessary for WebGUI | 17:39 |
| +bartjol | but the backup script onlyy takes paths beginning with / | 17:39 |
| +bartjol | so I can inform you that it doesn't work on relative paths | 17:40 |
| +bartjol | that was by design | 17:40 |
| +bartjol | it will even skip it the line begins with a whitespace | 17:40 |
| +bartjol | $line =~ /^\// is what is casuing that | 17:43 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we better step through this bit by bit | 17:44 |
| +perlDreamer | what's the original problem? | 17:44 |
| +perlDreamer | you start explaining, and I'll eat this breakfast which is sitting next to me | 17:44 |
| +bartjol | that the custom dirs cannot be backupped | 17:44 |
| +bartjol | with the default backup script | 17:45 |
| +bartjol | so I added a method to backup.pl | 17:45 |
| +bartjol | which reads the lines in preload.custom | 17:45 |
| +bartjol | and then backups that dirs | 17:46 |
| +bartjol | and in preload.custom there are commented lines, so I have to separate lines that should be taken into account and those who don't | 17:47 |
| +perlDreamer | the git commit that is posted only shows 2 changed lines of code that handle a new absPath variable | 17:47 |
| +bartjol | oh | 17:47 |
| +perlDreamer | https://github.com/BartJol/wrebuild/commit/cc70f55e0b34028171a350f66c76c7c798c65acf | 17:47 |
| +bartjol | oh | 17:47 |
| +perlDreamer | that's why I'm confused | 17:48 |
| +perlDreamer | that, and the lack of breakfast ;) | 17:48 |
| +bartjol | the rest is in https://github.com/BartJol/wrebuild/blob/master/wre/sbin/backup.pl | 17:49 |
| +bartjol | sorry | 17:49 |
| +perlDreamer | it's all right :) | 17:49 |
| +bartjol | I thought backup.pl was also in that commit\ | 17:49 |
| +perlDreamer | having backup.pl read preload.custom is a great idea though | 17:49 |
| +perlDreamer | why don't you submit it in a separate ticket | 17:50 |
| +perlDreamer | and we'll put both of them in? | 17:50 |
| +bartjol | well, I don't see them separate | 17:53 |
| +bartjol | file.pm change was needed for the backup.pl script in the new state | 17:53 |
| +bartjol | so, I can add a commit to the bug report | 17:53 |
| +perlDreamer | I get nightly emails full of "removing / from paths" during backups | 17:54 |
| +perlDreamer | so I think they could be separate | 17:54 |
| +bartjol | ah | 17:54 |
| +bartjol | ok | 17:54 |
| +perlDreamer | but, in any case, please open a separate ticket for the preload.custom stuff | 17:54 |
| +perlDreamer | for tracking | 17:54 |
| +bartjol | I just see to much connection | 17:54 |
| +bartjol | I create a problem with my solution, so I have to include that second problem as part of the first :) | 17:55 |
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| +bartjol | but the tar method can use abs paths from now, which might cause some other inconvenience-fixes | 17:56 |
| +perlDreamer | that's why I was asking about the testing | 17:56 |
| +bartjol | ok, I'll throw in another ticket | 17:56 |
| +bartjol | you can't really mix it for a mehtod that does abolute and relative paths | 17:57 |
| +bartjol | ok, added an extra bug report | 18:00 |
| +bartjol | http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/12037 | 18:01 |
| +perlDreamer | you rock! | 18:01 |
| +perlDreamer | you're awesome | 18:01 |
| +perlDreamer | you should take the rest of the day off and go sailing | 18:01 |
| +bartjol | there is to much wind here | 18:02 |
| +bartjol | well I fix my own problems and share my solutions | 18:03 |
| +bartjol | and, most important: I am more than my terminals (apparently) | 18:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I always thought your terminal was /dev/pts/0 | 18:04 |
| +bartjol | it is an inside joke | 18:04 |
| +bartjol | between me and Andy | 18:04 |
| +bartjol | strangly enough he isn't online | 18:05 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a bad time for Australian peoples | 18:14 |
| +bartjol | it is a good time for aussies: beertime! | 18:14 |
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| scrottie0 | skiing got cancelled. bah. | 19:44 |
| @frodwith | hey perlDreamer, I wonder if I could bother you for a favor | 19:45 |
| +perlDreamer | whatcha need, sir? | 19:45 |
| @frodwith | getShortcutByCriteria doesn't seem to have any tests at all | 19:46 |
| @frodwith | and I'm working on some code that needs to touch it | 19:46 |
| @frodwith | could you maybe write some tests for it? | 19:46 |
| +perlDreamer | when do you need them? | 19:46 |
| +perlDreamer | and what do you need to do it? | 19:46 |
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| daviddelikat1 | very cool: http://www.amazon.com/ProMini-Wireless-Bluetooth-Keyboard-TouchPad/dp/B003ZJEUBI/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1296947501&sr=1-4 | 01:14 |
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| xdanger | zomg! new Debian stable released =) | 21:45 |
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| Getty | i got now 100< of the webgui marketing flyer here ;) | 00:37 |
| Getty | awesome layout :) like it | 00:37 |
| Getty | ok not really hundred, but 30-40 | 00:38 |
| Getty | the ones left from the fosdem, so to spread them on the regional events | 00:38 |
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| elnino | did the packers win? | 05:25 |
| @preaction | yes'm | 05:26 |
| elnino | congrats | 05:26 |
| elnino | I'm assuming you are in WI | 05:27 |
| @preaction | yes'm | 05:36 |
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| elnino | good nite | 06:08 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 17:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | patspam, what did you do with BartJol? | 17:25 |
| +patspam | hey perlDreamer! | 17:35 |
| +patspam | anyone else running irssi+screen? | 17:36 |
| +patspam | I just switched, so that I can stay connected | 17:36 |
| +patspam | haven't figured out how to get it to notify me when I get mentioned yet.. | 17:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I've always used gaim/pidgin | 17:37 |
| +perlDreamer | although, preaction may have a setup like that | 17:38 |
| * perlDreamer is about to run kids to school, so expect some delays in responses | 17:38 | |
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| +perlDreamer | all righty | 17:55 |
| +perlDreamer | kids are at school | 17:56 |
| +perlDreamer | with lunches | 17:56 |
| +perlDreamer | and clothes | 17:56 |
| sbaur | and so ends another episode of Successful Parenting | 17:56 |
| Haarg | i prefer using a gui irc client so i use znc to stay connected continually. | 18:01 |
| +patspam | interesting.. | 18:37 |
| Haarg | and also on my phone the irc client works a lot better than ssh/screen would | 19:00 |
| @preaction | patspam: i hear irssi has a proxy feature like znc or dircproxy so that you can connect to your irssi with a gui irc client and get those notifications | 19:37 |
| @preaction | otherwise, there's a Desktop::Notify perl module | 19:37 |
| sbaur | can anyone point me at an example of a webgui template toolkit template using an INCLUDE? | 19:45 |
| +perlDreamer | sbaur, are you asking for something outside of the TT docs? | 19:46 |
| +perlDreamer | or do you think there's a problem with doing it in WebGUI? | 19:46 |
| @preaction | are you trying to include a file or another asset? | 19:49 |
| sbaur | still learning about TT. I think we want to include another asset, but probably would need to know how to do files as well | 19:50 |
| @preaction | frodwith is the one who knows how to include assets, he wrote a plugin for it | 19:51 |
| sbaur | if both are possible | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | wouldn't the good ol' fashioned assetProxy macro work for including another asset? | 19:52 |
| @preaction | no, because macros are processed after template variables. include means "process this as a template" | 19:52 |
| @preaction | but i'm not seeing it in his cpan list | 19:53 |
| @frodwith | that's because I never put it on cpan | 19:53 |
| @preaction | well then you suck and i hate you | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | the number of WebGUI related modules of cpan is similar to 1/X | 19:53 |
| @frodwith | because it uses padwalker to walk the call stack looking for a webgui session | 19:53 |
| @frodwith | and it's a really ugly hack | 19:53 |
| @preaction | it's like the Switch.pm module, it'll work and generate interest so we can decide if we want something better | 19:54 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds like a virtue #3 violation | 19:54 |
| @frodwith | https://github.com/frodwith/template-plugin-webgui-asset | 19:56 |
| Haarg | it would be pretty simple to have WebGUI's TT module stick the session into the stash to allow TT plugins access to it | 19:56 |
| @frodwith | yes it would | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought we didn't want that, though? | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise, template users would get access to the database | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | usernames, passwords, etc. | 19:57 |
| @frodwith | not available as a template variable | 19:57 |
| Haarg | no, underscore prefixed variables aren't accessible | 19:57 |
| Haarg | if you stick the session in as _webgui_session, template users can't get to it, but a plugin like frodwith's could | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | that's cool | 19:58 |
| @preaction | i'm down with that, if frodwith wants to use that method instead of padwalker | 20:04 |
| @frodwith | well, could do that and fallback on the padwalker thing | 20:04 |
| @preaction | could, i suppose sbaur is running a rather old version of webgui | 20:05 |
| @preaction | but she could also just install the new template parser as well | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | or she could upgrade | 20:05 |
| Haarg | or use monkey patching as a fallback. not sure which is worse. | 20:05 |
| sbaur | indeed i am | 20:05 |
| sbaur | working on the upgrade process, really (and yes, i realize i've been saying that for a long time, but custom code's a bitch) | 20:06 |
| +perlDreamer | yes. It gets easier with good tests, but still not easy | 20:07 |
| sbaur | especially custom code that started life in the 5 series | 20:07 |
| sbaur | so any examples of INCLUDE with files, since assets seems to be a major pain :-) | 20:07 |
| Haarg | i really wish javascript had a profiler as good as nytprof | 20:08 |
| sbaur | just checked the 7.10.8 beta code and didn't find anything. Not conversant in github, so not sure how to search the 8 codebase | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | sbaur, nothing in the core is moved over to TT yet | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | it was one of the features that was dropped last year | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | due to scheduling issues | 20:10 |
| sbaur | ohhh | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | we so want to be on TT | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | makes life much easier all around | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | but when you've got limited resources, what can you do? | 20:11 |
| sbaur | we've slowly started embracing TT -- but still at the baby steps stage | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | isn't it nice how you don't have to invent 20 or 30 template variables for conditionals now? | 20:13 |
| +perlDreamer | and you can talk to objects directly | 20:13 |
| +perlDreamer | the loop features rock | 20:13 |
| +perlDreamer | with a bunch of work, we could probably drop the macro system in favor of TT plugins | 20:14 |
| Haarg | macros still make sense for user content in some places, but not often | 20:17 |
| @preaction | 7.9 had the new cart layout, right? | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 20:37 |
| sbaur | so my very basic, quick testing seems to show that I cannot use INCLUDE in TT with webgui either with an asset or a filesystem file. Is that correct? | 20:40 |
| @preaction | you should be able to include files, i'm just not sure what the TT include_path is going to end up being | 20:41 |
| sbaur | (I tested with putting a bit of text in a snippet, and also by putting a file with a bit of text in extras | 20:41 |
| sbaur | if i tried to include a URL, i got an error about not having a provider for http | 20:42 |
| sbaur | tried an absolute path and got - absolute paths are not allowed (set ABSOLUTE option) | 20:43 |
| sbaur | not a good thing to set because then you could change /etc/passwd, for example | 20:44 |
| sbaur | hmmm, maybe i can set an include path | 20:45 |
| sbaur | hmm, but where do i set it? can I set TT options in the webgui conf file, or do i need to go digging into my wre | 20:47 |
| @preaction | you'd need to set it in the template parser itself i believe | 20:48 |
| sbaur | oh, yay, another patch to carry forward :-) | 20:49 |
| sbaur | so, unless i can figure out what specific directory it think's it's in when it's looking for files, there is no way to use INCLUDE and webgui without some sort of core code change | 20:51 |
| sbaur | s/and webgui/in TT/ | 20:52 |
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| sbaur | oh, and relative paths are not allowed (set RELATIVE option) either | 20:56 |
| @preaction | i'd be open to allowing you to set TT options from the config file, that was part of the plan when we were still going to move to it | 20:57 |
| +perlDreamer | our H::T plugin doesn't allow includes at all | 21:02 |
| +perlDreamer | it has no_includes => 1 set | 21:04 |
| ckotil | Im at 7.8.20 and while looking at the upgrade scripts included in 7.9.21 I dont see any script that will take me into 7.9.x | 21:07 |
| ckotil | is there a trick to upgrading past 7.8.20 ? | 21:07 |
| @preaction | .20 is not the last 7.8 | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | upgrade to 7.8.24 first? http://www.webgui.org/wiki/stop-versions | 21:07 |
| sbaur | I think I missed something big. WebGUI is no longer moving to TT? we are staying with HTML:Template? for the 8 series? forever? | 21:08 |
| ckotil | gotcha. thanks | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | sbaur, I was wondering if we'd allow includes in the core | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | since we don't now | 21:08 |
| @preaction | sbaur: we aren't moving to TT for 8.0, which means we cannot remove H::T during 8.x because of compatibility guarantees | 21:08 |
| ckotil | phew. i dont have to rewrite my templates for TT for a while. | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil, there's an online translator for them | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | should be effortless | 21:09 |
| sbaur | but converting templates is going to be happening during 8 | 21:09 |
| ckotil | awesome. | 21:09 |
| sbaur | perlDreamer: famous last words | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | conversion will be effortless | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | flawless conversion, on the other hand... | 21:10 |
| @preaction | i didn't say it was going to be happening in 8 | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | it was that way for the original plans in 8, though | 21:10 |
| @preaction | i was more speaking to sbaur's comment. i can't be sure we'll have the resources to do it | 21:11 |
| sbaur | ok, fair enough | 21:12 |
| @preaction | surely we could force any new asset dev to be using TT, but how many of those are going to happen? | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not only the assets, it's also the addons, like Admin plugins, content handlers, anything that's like an operation | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | but that could be made to use TT as well | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | or, XSlate | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | lunch | 21:58 |
| ckotil | upgrade from 7.8.20 to 7.9.21 went smooth. im just in dependency hell right now. | 23:23 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8aee259 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix an issue where the default cache time of WebGUI::Cache would cause Groups with caches disabled (groupCacheTimeout=0) to actually be cached for 60 seconds. Fixes bug #12038. - http://bit.ly/gKHhrC | 23:38 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r40728d8 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix an issue where the default cache time of WebGUI::Cache would cause Groups with caches disabled (groupCacheTimeout=0) to actually be cached for 60 seconds. Fixes bug #12038. - http://bit.ly/dWJOw5 | 23:38 |
| @preaction | Note To Self: Any module bigger than 3000 lines probably needs refactoring | 23:38 |
| scrottie0 | speaking of back compat, how bad would the universe break if WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WikiMaster::www_search started using (newly written) options in WebGUI::Search and Paginator to restrict results based on canView? | 23:48 |
| scrottie0 | why is asking questions so apetite stimulating? nothing stimulates me to get up and fry something like having had asked a question. | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie0: lots and lots of tests | 23:50 |
| @preaction | shouldn't be a problem. realistically i'd like to remove all www_search and have a button "Add Search To This Asset" which creates a Search asset and configures it and adds it to the template or something | 23:50 |
| * scrottie0 nods slowly | 23:51 | |
| +perlDreamer | oooh, a Search Role for assets? | 23:51 |
| @preaction | or maybe a role or whatever | 23:51 |
| @preaction | or just attach a search asset via dispatch() and searchAssetId property | 23:51 |
| --- Day changed Tue Feb 08 2011 | ||
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| @preaction | working in python all weekend has got me not adding semi-colons to my lines :p | 00:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: when do you rest? | 00:56 |
| @preaction | sunday | 00:56 |
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| @preaction | wait, sunday is housework day. | 00:59 |
| +perlDreamer | ya, d00d | 00:59 |
| @preaction | hmm.. let me get back to you on that | 00:59 |
| +perlDreamer | don't make me come out there and father you | 00:59 |
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| @preaction | perlDreamer: got 10 minutes to talk about crud and definition? | 01:34 |
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| @preaction | anyone know what getHtmlWithModuleWrapper actually does in Thingy? | 01:50 |
| @preaction | and anyone know if i can code for 15 minutes without coming up with things i cannot easily migrate to FormBuilder? | 01:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, what about Crud and Definition? | 01:58 |
| @preaction | i'm trying to fix crud_form to use FormBuilder, but it seems that crud_getProperties doesn't get all the properties necessary for a form field | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | what things do you see are missing? | 02:00 |
| +perlDreamer | and where? | 02:00 |
| +perlDreamer | seems odd, since crud_form generates a form using the old WebGUI::HTMLForm->dynamic form | 02:00 |
| @preaction | but the new properites don't have real data until you get a session | 02:02 |
| @preaction | and the $property->form only has certain things, not everything | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | you're right, it doesn't work in the general case | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | but in the specific case of stuff in the core, it does | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | stuff built with crud doesn't have parents | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | so you don't have to do a db lookup | 02:03 |
| @preaction | huh? | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I spent a bunch of time thinking about the Crud/WebGUI::Definition change | 02:04 |
| @preaction | i'm trying to get Survey.pm www_editTest to work | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | what does www_editTest need? | 02:05 |
| @preaction | crud_form, that's it | 02:05 |
| @preaction | so crud_form needs to be FormBuilder-aware, which i've done, but the fields don't get created properly | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | did you try it before it was using FormBuilder? | 02:05 |
| @preaction | nope | 02:06 |
| +perlDreamer | crud_form takes an object for introspection, data | 02:06 |
| +perlDreamer | and really, it's just a wrapper around WebGUI::HTMLForm->dynamicForm | 02:07 |
| @preaction | there, tested and it gets the same error i got previously: | 02:07 |
| @preaction | Couldn't call method www_editTestSave on asset for url: /root/import/untitled2/untitled Root cause: Can't use string ("3") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at /Users/doug/WebGUI_Core/lib/WebGUI/Crud.pm line 947 | 02:07 |
| @preaction | getProperties thinks get_all_property_list returns a hashref, but it returns an arrayref | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | if you mean crud_getProperties, I don't think so | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | my @property_names = $class->meta->get_all_property_list(); | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe you're thinking updateFromFormPost ? | 02:09 |
| @preaction | yeah, that | 02:10 |
| @preaction | but i fixed that, and it seems to set the properties, but still no row exists in my database | 02:10 |
| @preaction | because the fields aren't getting created right, so mech can't add data to them | 02:11 |
| @preaction | i'm trying to use $class->getFormProperties, but that keeps complaining i'm not passing in a property name or something | 02:11 |
| @preaction | ... because it could be not a class, it could be $self... | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | getFormProperties returns the form properties, for one attribute | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | not for all of them | 02:12 |
| @preaction | and that's what i want | 02:12 |
| @preaction | i can get a list, and then get the properties | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | yup, for one field at a time | 02:12 |
| @preaction | but the problem seems to be that crud_form is called both as a class and an object method, because whatever | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | there are cases where you don't have an object yet | 02:14 |
| +perlDreamer | and you don't want to create one, because that writes to the db automatically | 02:14 |
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| @preaction | yes, i understand, but then you still have to pass in an object for some reason. and getFormProperties needs a session no matter what. | 02:14 |
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| @preaction | the problem is that it's being called $class, when it is not | 02:14 |
| +perlDreamer | you can call a variable whatever you like | 02:14 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not used | 02:14 |
| +perlDreamer | well, except to call crud_getProperties | 02:15 |
| @preaction | but I need the class, not an object. it's called class, it should be a class! | 02:15 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't want to argue about this | 02:15 |
| +perlDreamer | if it's broken, then it should be fixed | 02:15 |
| +perlDreamer | if you don't like it, rewrite it | 02:15 |
| @preaction | i'm sorry, i'm just frustrated that i lost 2 hours because of my own ineptitude | 02:16 |
| +perlDreamer | In 5 years, I've never found you to be inept. | 02:16 |
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| CIA-78 | wrebuild: BartJol master * red6d6c1 / wre/sbin/backup.pl : added customdir backup - http://bit.ly/idWO36 | 02:28 |
| CIA-78 | wrebuild: BartJol master * r480fdca / (wre/lib/WRE/File.pm wre/sbin/backup.pl): supressed leading slash tar warning - http://bit.ly/f1TyBq | 02:28 |
| @preaction | yay! it works now. | 02:35 |
| @preaction | now... Thingy... i think the getHtmlWithModuleWrapper is for yui drag-drop, but i'm not sure... | 02:35 |
| +perlDreamer | it looks like a copy of getHtmlWithWrapper from Form.pm and its ilk | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | but customized to work with the Thing add/edit field interface | 02:37 |
| @preaction | yeah, it adds <div class="bd"> | 02:37 |
| @preaction | which i think is the dragdrop part | 02:37 |
| @preaction | which mucks things up for me and FormBuilder and "The Correct Way" | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe, it also looks like the dialog interface | 02:38 |
| +perlDreamer | hd for header | 02:38 |
| +perlDreamer | bd for body of the dialog | 02:38 |
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| @preaction | i suppose i can't get around this one, i'll have to actually test the frontend... | 02:41 |
| * perlDreamer goes to the gym | 02:41 | |
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| +perlDreamer | ekennedy! long time no IRC | 05:02 |
| ekennedy | Si Senor. I was pretty maxed out through the end of last year. How are you doing. | 05:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I've been busy, too | 05:06 |
| +perlDreamer | in fact, it's time for me to go hang out with the family | 05:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll be back on later tonight to release the next version of WebGUI | 05:09 |
| ekennedy | Good hearing from you. Have a good evening! | 05:09 |
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| SuperTech | hello | 05:40 |
| SuperTech | am new to webgui | 05:40 |
| SuperTech | can you help me with some thing where are the file to extract to put on ftp | 05:40 |
| SuperTech | am lost | 05:40 |
| @preaction | do you have a shell access to your web host? | 05:42 |
| SuperTech | i got a ftp hosting | 05:42 |
| @preaction | does that mean you have a shell? can you log in and run commands? | 05:42 |
| SuperTech | i dont have shell i got a basic web hosting fot web site i got mysql databse and every thing | 05:43 |
| @preaction | if you don't have a shell, you can't do everything needed to run webgui | 05:43 |
| SuperTech | ok | 05:43 |
| SuperTech | i looking for a cms for school i have try search many but i dont think am the good way to look | 05:44 |
| SuperTech | i have try and search name | 05:44 |
| @preaction | cmsmatrix.org has better methods of searching | 05:44 |
| SuperTech | and on this website can we have many like good cms for school | 05:45 |
| SuperTech | webgui is nice one i have see customer website made by webgui it nice cms | 05:45 |
| @preaction | i'm not sure i understand that sentence. cmsmatrix lets you find a CMS that fits your needs | 05:46 |
| SuperTech | ok thanks for the help sir | 05:47 |
| SuperTech | i will check this out | 05:47 |
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| +perlDreamer | this is a major bummer | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | all the simple bugs seem to be gone | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | the only ones left are the big ones | 06:29 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rcf72a9f / (29 files in 15 dirs): Preparing for 7.10.9 release. - http://bit.ly/i4zNVt | 06:45 |
| +perlDreamer | stoopid sourceforge! | 07:01 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1df5429 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.10 development - http://bit.ly/hvvXU5 | 07:14 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:48 |
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| Trex | There's probably a collective groan when I show up, because that usually means there's a bug report coming. :) | 19:24 |
| Trex | I've found that the default email password recovery template is not playing well with Gmail. In trying to fix it, I'm having some problems with the email template itself. | 19:25 |
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| Trex | Hey perlDreamer -- thanks for the help fixing the group cache bug! | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | You're welcome Trex. | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks for that great test | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I added it, in abbreviated form, to the core | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | so if this breaks at some point in the future, we'll find it | 19:28 |
| Trex | Cool. Now that you've got me started with testing, you may have created a monster. ;) | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | testing has really changed the way that I code, for the better | 19:29 |
| Trex | But in the meantime, I've found a new bug that's outside WebGUI's testing capabilities. | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | are you sure? :) | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | what is it? | 19:29 |
| Trex | In the email-based password recovery process, clicking on the link in the email fails in Gmail. | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | really? what does "fail" mean? | 19:30 |
| Trex | You get sent back to the home page and webgui.log sees "Visitor (1) connecting from xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx attempted to execute an invalid operation: auth;method=emailResetPassword;token=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | odd, is Gmail mangling the URL somehow? | 19:31 |
| Trex | However, if you copy and paste the link directly, it works fine. | 19:31 |
| Trex | It's possible. I see that in the raw HTML of the email, the semicolons are replaced with "3D", but they display properly in Gmail. | 19:32 |
| Trex | Also, the WebGUI log records them as semicolons. | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | so, if the problem is that the URL is being URL encoded, that's testable | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | you have have to trigger the email generation, and then pull it out of the mailQueue | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | there are examples of that in t/Workflow/Activity/SendNewsletters.t | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | or, you can try to intercept it as the templated email is being built | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | by mocking the template and then grabbing the template variables out of it | 19:33 |
| Trex | But the email link works fine if you click on it in another email program, like Thunderbird. | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | right, but it might be "helping you out" | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | whereas something more strict might not | 19:34 |
| Trex | Well, tmpl_var recoverPasswordUrl is definitely doing some encoding of the URL. Whether that's an "error" in email standards I can't say. | 19:36 |
| Trex | Also, if it's a problem for WebGUI to process the query string, it's still properly un-encoding the URL before logging the error. | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | is it doing the encoding of the URL in the template? | 19:42 |
| Trex | I can't say. I guess that's where some tests or digging into the API would help. | 19:43 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what I would do | 19:46 |
| ckotil | hehe, Selenium. reminds me of that movie from 2001, Evolution. | 19:49 |
| Trex | Ahhh... When creating new templates, especially for admin type stuff, it helps to commit your changes before trying to use them. | 19:57 |
| Trex | The encoding issue still exists, but in trying to debug it, I forgot to commit my testing templates. | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | do you use wgd? | 19:59 |
| Trex | No. I looked into it at one point, but the initial learning curve was too steep. I couldn't really figure out what to do with it. | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | well, let's suppose you want to edit a template... :) | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | wgd edit templateUrl | templateAssetId | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | it pops the template up in your favorite | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | editor, and then saves it and commits it for you | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | now, let's say you really like your template, and want a package of it for later | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | wgd package templateUrl | templateAssetId | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | or, you'd like to clear the cache for a site | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | wgd reset --delCache | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | and that wgd edit command? It works on more than templates | 20:07 |
| +perlDreamer | it will work on ANY asset | 20:07 |
| Trex | Well, the main problem with that is that the number of sites and templates that I work on are so high that I rarely can remember the URL or ID of whatever it is I need to work on, so I end up browsing through the asset tree to find what I'm looking for...and once I'm there, I have no problem working in the web interface for things like editing templates. | 20:08 |
| Trex | The command line is great for people with better short-term memories than I have. :) | 20:10 |
| sbaur | should support board tickets come up as search results when someone who has access to the boards does a search on plainblack.com? (wondering if I found a bug, or a feature request) | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | sbaur, I've never searched for tickets on without using the support board's search | 20:28 |
| sbaur | well, i was specifically looking for a package that you uploaded ages ago, and I couldn't remember where it was. So I did a sitewide search on both plainblack.com and webgui.org and couldn't find it. but, when i went into the various boards, (support and bugs) I did eventually find it with the same search term that failed on the sitewide | 20:40 |
| sbaur | so, is the sitewide search designed to search the helpdesks, or do I need to request it as a feature. | 20:42 |
| sbaur | oh, and google doesn't seem to be able to search inside the helpdsks either | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | the support board is privileged | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | but the bug board stuff should show up | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | well... | 20:43 |
| sbaur | my search term is PBtmpl0000000000000132 | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | by default, it pops up as part of a JS based DataTable | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | so maybe not? | 20:43 |
| sbaur | i'd humbly point out that google not being able to search the bug board will make it harder for folks to find answers to already solved problems -- thereby creating more work for you | 20:44 |
| +perlDreamer | for a public bug board, I'd agree with you | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | so we need a workaround for that | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | but as to the WebGUI Search asset not knowing about Tickets and stuff, it could definitely be a bug | 20:46 |
| sbaur | ok, i'll report as such | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | so, I'd suggest filing it, and then we'll let the powers that be determine if it's a bug or an RFE | 20:46 |
| sbaur | :D | 20:46 |
| sbaur | submitted | 20:53 |
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| scrottie0 | hrm. does sendMessage() in Workflow/Activity/RequestApprovalForVersionTag.pm run as the result of a hit from spectre? and if so, wouldn't $self->session->url->getSiteURL fail to realize that the site is running on https, not http, when it calls $self->session->env->sslRequest to try to figure that fact out? | 23:26 |
| scrottie0 | yes, I could test this theory. or I could generate chatter. | 23:26 |
| @preaction | sendMessage could be sent via spectre, yes | 23:26 |
| @preaction | it's a tossup really, a workflow tries to run in realtime for a few seconds, or until some workflow returns WAITING or ERROR | 23:27 |
| scrottie0 | ahh, hrm. | 23:27 |
| scrottie0 | I don't see a clean to fix this one. the first thing that comes to mind is recording the \%ENV and stuffing that in the database, and rigging WebGUI::Session::Env to use that instead when running inside spectre, but that's nasty. | 23:29 |
| @preaction | what's the problem? that it comes in on http and doesn't get redirected to https via the apache config? | 23:30 |
| scrottie0 | it does get redirected as it should. | 23:30 |
| scrottie0 | so the problem is really quite small. | 23:31 |
| scrottie0 | cosmetic, even. in this case. | 23:31 |
| scrottie0 | I just hate responding to tickets as "will not fix" without a good hashing through of it. | 23:31 |
| @preaction | there are some other ways we could fix it, adding a config option for it or something | 23:32 |
| Haarg | the other option is to always assume something like that should be ssl if ssl is enabled for the site | 23:32 |
| Haarg | that seems kind of dangerous though | 23:32 |
| @preaction | one of the ways i want to do certain things in the future is make sitename into a full mountpoint: https://example.com/mount | 23:32 |
| @preaction | which would fix this problem too | 23:32 |
| scrottie0 | yeah. custom options are generally a poor solution too but a "this entire site is on HTTPS and only HTTPS" option wouldn't be a bad one. | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds like a documentation problem to me | 23:32 |
| @preaction | yeah, if we made an option, that'd be it: We are an SSL site. Ever. Always. That's It. Done. Finito. Over. | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | "no matter what the URL says, we have set it up so that you will always use SSL. You needn't worry about this" | 23:33 |
| --- Day changed Wed Feb 09 2011 | ||
| @preaction | wonderful. it seems that mysql doesn't have 5.0 packages on their site anymore | 00:20 |
| @preaction | oh, there they are. 4 clicks deep | 00:20 |
| +perlDreamer | is it bad to use a newer mysql? | 00:24 |
| +perlDreamer | or is Oracle twisting your arm? | 00:24 |
| @preaction | maybe | 00:24 |
| Trex | Well, I believe I've finally worked out the Gmail problem with password recovery. | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | awesome! | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | what is it? | 00:33 |
| Trex | When you click a link in Gmail, the request that gets sent to the server has all the semicolons converted into "%3B" | 00:33 |
| Trex | WebGUI doesn't seem to like this. | 00:33 |
| @preaction | because semicolons are also query param seperator characters | 00:34 |
| @preaction | but gmail encoding them removes their seperator ability | 00:34 |
| @preaction | hotmail also does this | 00:34 |
| Trex | If you convert the semicolon into ampersands, the link works in Gmail. | 00:34 |
| @preaction | i don't know why, as semicolons are valid, and in fact RECOMMENDED because & is an HTML entity that must be encoded as & | 00:34 |
| Trex | Is there anything WebGUI can do on its end to catch and convert these characters in the query string of GET requests? | 00:35 |
| @preaction | no. webgui uses ; everywhere. webgui doesn't use & anywhere | 00:36 |
| @preaction | well, yes, but it'd be a messload of work | 00:36 |
| Trex | In another system I was working on, they actually had separate email templates for Gmail. I"d hate to have to do the same thing in WebGUI. | 00:36 |
| @preaction | but it's just more proof that the W3C's members pick and choose what standards to adhere to | 00:37 |
| Trex | What about adding an alternate template variable in the email password template that uses ampersands rather than semicolons? | 00:37 |
| @preaction | that might fix your current problem, but it doesn't fix the greater problem | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | why not file a bug report with Gmail? | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | and ask them why they're doing this? | 00:38 |
| @preaction | i'm about that right now, i want to see their reply | 00:38 |
| Trex | For them, this is surely not a bug but a feature. | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | Trex, this is like using tables for simple style layouts | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not the way things are supposed to be done anymore | 00:38 |
| @preaction | this is a bug, they are not parsing URLs correctly, as written by the URL RFC | 00:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=418189.0 | 00:39 |
| +perlDreamer | that says that it's only a problem with IE and Gmail | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | and not Gmail alone | 00:40 |
| @preaction | so it's IE doing it | 00:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | surprise surprise | 00:40 |
| @preaction | nope, not at all... | 00:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | that makes me so mad I'm going to bake muffins | 00:40 |
| Trex | Nope. I've tested with both Gmail in Chrome and Firefox. | 00:40 |
| Trex | I can show you the access.log entries. | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I believe you | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | well, it just means it's time to try and ask Gmail then | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | Getting better: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=22d109fb7993f610&hl=en | 00:41 |
| Trex | That's recent. I wonder if it's a recent development then. | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | must be | 00:42 |
| Trex | The earliest complaint I have of someone not able to log in was Feb 1st. | 00:42 |
| @preaction | hotmail and others have been doing it forever | 00:42 |
| @preaction | maybe because of browser bugs causing phishing attacks? | 00:43 |
| Trex | Heh. My university just switched from in-house email to Gmail to save money on $IT. Google just cost them one day of my productivity! | 00:45 |
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| +perlDreamer | ah, but think how much more WebGUI you've learned! | 00:59 |
| Haarg | also, it's something happening in the onclick handler for the links. if you right click on one and open in new tab/window it doesn't do the extra encoding. | 01:04 |
| Trex | OK, thanks for the entertainment, folks! Time to head home, have some supper, and go work on another WebGUI site. | 01:23 |
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| sbaur | ok, i just ran into something odd when test updating my site from 7.5.40 to 7.6.35 (using the wre, but an old one) | 02:23 |
| sbaur | Although it replaced all sorts of entries in my conf file with ^International(); it didn't actually add the International macro to the lists of macros | 02:24 |
| sbaur | the upgrade for this site did not give me any errors | 02:24 |
| sbaur | very odd | 02:26 |
| @preaction | the International macro should have already been part of your site | 02:26 |
| sbaur | it's not, and I don't know why, cuz we are actually using it, but not getting errors, i'm very confused | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, that's worth a double check | 02:27 |
| sbaur | definitely no international macro in the mathsuccess conf file on server39 | 02:31 |
| sbaur | but, maybe we aren't actually using it there | 02:32 |
| +perlDreamer | it's used in templates | 02:33 |
| +perlDreamer | but maybe you're not using those either? | 02:33 |
| sbaur | maybe not | 02:39 |
| sbaur | I'll investigate more tomorrow, when i am a little less flummoxed | 02:39 |
| sbaur | g'night all | 02:39 |
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| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbb584ec / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix stories linking to keyword pages after export. Fixes bug #12035. - http://bit.ly/gfe8b8 | 05:12 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0f49494 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix stories linking to keyword pages after export. Fixes bug #12035. - http://bit.ly/hA3iak | 05:13 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: what do you think about a Group To Add group for the Folder? | 06:04 |
| @preaction | would probably be a good idea | 06:04 |
| @preaction | as well as getting rid of the addGroup stuff in the config file, imho | 06:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I was thinking specifically of the Folder asset instead of a more general purpose solution for all assets | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | mainly because it's 7.10-able | 06:05 |
| +perlDreamer | but we can put in a ticket for wg8 to do the whole magilla | 06:05 |
| @preaction | right, i'm saying addGroup is just one big hassle for the content manager who doesn't expect it | 06:05 |
| @preaction | we could add Group To Add to folder, but you'd still need to edit addGroup, as it defaults to 12 | 06:06 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, and it puts it in the reach of users by making it part of the UI | 06:06 |
| +perlDreamer | we also might have to update the Folder templates | 06:06 |
| @preaction | no, addGroup is a different check, doesn't happen with an asset instance, happens with just a session | 06:06 |
| @preaction | addGroup in the config file | 06:07 |
| +perlDreamer | Folder can override canAdd? | 06:07 |
| @preaction | no | 06:07 |
| @preaction | nothing can | 06:07 |
| +perlDreamer | how are posts added by non-admins? | 06:07 |
| @preaction | and it'd be File's canAdd | 06:07 |
| @preaction | Post's canAdd is overridden to be 7 always | 06:07 |
| +perlDreamer | yuck | 06:09 |
| +perlDreamer | we definitely need to fix that in 8, and to fix it the right way | 06:12 |
| +perlDreamer | because I don't want to do that for File, Image and anything else that people that to put in a Folder | 06:12 |
| +perlDreamer | either that, or override www_add :P | 06:15 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 16:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: I need the power! | 18:14 |
| @rizen | don't give it to him! | 18:20 |
| @rizen | perlDreamer is part of the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow Society | 18:20 |
| +perlDreamer | where a better society is one under my Iron Thumb! | 18:20 |
| +perlDreamer | and we have tea and cookies at 4:00pm every day, Pacific time | 18:20 |
| @rizen | does your trainer know about these cookies? | 18:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't have control of the society yet, so there's still time to lose weight | 18:22 |
| +perlDreamer | besides, maybe they're sugar-free, whole-wheat cookies | 18:22 |
| @rizen | what would be the point? | 18:23 |
| @rizen | might as well eat rice cakes | 18:23 |
| +perlDreamer | you may have rice cakes if you wish | 18:24 |
| * perlDreamer will prefer cookies | 18:24 | |
| * rizen will prefer pie | 18:24 | |
| +perlDreamer | now you're talking! | 18:25 |
| @rizen | the dancer limitation we discussed last night will be resolved next week according to franck and saywer | 18:25 |
| +perlDreamer | awesome! | 18:26 |
| +perlDreamer | so what do you do in the meantime? | 18:26 |
| @rizen | keep working on wing | 18:27 |
| @rizen | forget about the web part of it for now | 18:27 |
| @rizen | when the new version comes out | 18:28 |
| @rizen | then look at web | 18:28 |
| @rizen | make sure they fixed everything | 18:28 |
| +BartJol | oh dear | 18:29 |
| @rizen | i smell something dutch | 18:29 |
| +BartJol | yeah, well I already submitted 2 bugfixes last month, so I have been a good boy | 18:29 |
| +BartJol | don't hurt me | 18:30 |
| +perlDreamer | and a feature | 18:30 |
| +BartJol | we only need a new wre now... | 18:30 |
| +perlDreamer | we can make script-only releases of the WRE fairly easily | 18:31 |
| @rizen | tacos or burgers for lunch today? | 18:36 |
| @rizen | i'm feeling the need for something greasy, can you tell? | 18:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Teddywedgers! | 18:36 |
| -!- BugSlasherMcGurk [~rizen@69.71.243.241] has joined #webgui | 18:38 | |
| -!- rizen [~rizen@69.71.243.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 18:38 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o BugSlasherMcGurk] by ChanServ | 18:38 | |
| @BugSlasherMcGurk | too far to walk in -8 temperature | 18:38 |
| -!- BugSlasherMcGurk is now known as rizen | 18:38 | |
| +perlDreamer | think of all the calories you'll burn on the way there! | 18:38 |
| @rizen | that was weird | 18:38 |
| @rizen | when i'm dead? | 18:38 |
| +perlDreamer | dead?? phaw | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | merely waiting to be thawed and reanimated | 18:39 |
| @rizen | it's nearly a mile 1 way at -8F | 18:39 |
| @rizen | heh | 18:39 |
| +BartJol | how much C is that? | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | -20, I think | 18:39 |
| @rizen | -22.222222 | 18:40 |
| @rizen | C | 18:40 |
| @rizen | 250.927777778K | 18:40 |
| +BartJol | ok, that is quite cold | 18:43 |
| @rizen | It's going to be balmy here on Friday, getting all the way up to 20F (-6.66667C). maybe i'll walk it then | 18:45 |
| SDuensin | Holy crap. rizen is here. | 18:45 |
| @rizen | Holy crap SD is here! | 18:45 |
| SDuensin | Like I ever leave! | 18:46 |
| @rizen | I'm always here in spirit. | 18:46 |
| SDuensin | Aww, we know. | 18:46 |
| @rizen | It's just the perlDreamer is such a slave driver that I don't have much time to physically be here. | 18:46 |
| @rizen | s/the/that/ | 18:47 |
| SDuensin | Hey, you're still welcome to pay me fat bank to help out. :-P | 18:47 |
| +BartJol | and you are the nice, friendly workerbee rizen? | 18:47 |
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| -!- BugSlasherMcGurk is now known as rizen | 18:47 | |
| @rizen | apparently my internet connection isn't stable enough to even do irc at the moment | 18:47 |
| +BartJol | has the earth's magnetic field keeeled over? | 18:48 |
| SDuensin | Probably frozen. | 18:48 |
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| -!- BugSlasherMcGurk is now known as rizen | 18:49 | |
| @frodwith | rizen: what Dancer limitation? | 18:49 |
| SDuensin | Yup. Frozen. | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | you got the hiccups rizen? | 18:49 |
| @rizen | they have before/after handlers (kind of like moose), but for request processing | 18:50 |
| @rizen | and right now when you apply them they are global | 18:50 |
| @frodwith | sort of like plack middleware | 18:52 |
| @frodwith | only | 18:52 |
| @frodwith | less flexible | 18:52 |
| @rizen | yup | 18:52 |
| @rizen | you can also apply plack middleware to dancer | 18:52 |
| @frodwith | so what are they doing to fix it? | 18:53 |
| @rizen | but the beauty of the before/after stuff is that it allows you to manipulate the request during processing | 18:53 |
| @rizen | after deserialization | 18:53 |
| @rizen | and before serialization | 18:53 |
| @rizen | they're adding a new subsystem called hooks | 18:53 |
| @rizen | and hooks can have filters | 18:53 |
| @rizen | so i can say something like | 18:53 |
| @rizen | before_serialization '/user' => sub {} | 18:54 |
| @rizen | so routes that start with /user | 18:54 |
| @rizen | will be affected | 18:54 |
| @frodwith | Mmm! | 18:54 |
| @frodwith | and to do that with plack middleware, you'd have to be able to hook into dancer's routing | 18:54 |
| @frodwith | which would be annoying | 18:55 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r702de1e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the missing template variables for userDefined fields in the Map Point. - http://bit.ly/gtfjb6 | 19:10 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r1e00e1e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the missing template variables for userDefined fields in the Map Point. - http://bit.ly/flIIn8 | 19:10 |
| +BartJol | well, nice to see some tcp packets of you agian rizen, but, I'm leaving | 19:42 |
| -!- BartJol [~bartjol@D57D69B5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 19:43 | |
| -!- rizen [~rizen@69.71.243.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 19:52 | |
| @frodwith | so, I've got some changes to the way metadata works done, and since it's a somewhat major change, if anyone wants to comment on it before I commit it to trunk, here 'tis: https://github.com/frodwith/webgui/commit/c752e0556aee2bd3be675d7c2c9f94963e4468b9. Particularly want to hear from perlDreamer and preaction. | 20:01 |
| @preaction | frodwith: looks good to me, but for one nitpick | 20:23 |
| @preaction | i don't think there should be a listAll argument to getMetaDataFields. a new sub would probably work better | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | frodwith: before I start reading, have you run the entire test suite (including WEBGUI_LIVE tests) on this branch? | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and to be clear, the entire test suite including LIVE tests on a 0.9.3 WRE site | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | POD docs for getTemplateVariables don't show the argument list, and that it will accept either hashes or hashrefs | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | the two copies of the template variables are going to slow down HTML::Template a lot. Also, the "flat list" does not include all the keyword variables that ->get provides. | 20:27 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: we can't accept this | 20:28 |
| +perlDreamer | there are too many serious changes to the way that template variables are created | 20:28 |
| +perlDreamer | title and url are not getTitle and getUrl any more | 20:29 |
| @preaction | as far as processTemplate was concerned, they never were | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | what? | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I think you should read the patch more closely (or maybe I should) | 20:29 |
| @preaction | look at what processTemplate does in current versions, and then look at what the patch does | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | processTemplate explicitly overrode title and url with getTitle and getUrl, and does that now | 20:30 |
| @preaction | ah, then that'll have to be fixed in the patch | 20:30 |
| @frodwith | that can be changed | 20:31 |
| @frodwith | easily enough | 20:31 |
| @preaction | frodwith: why aren't you calling $self->get btw? | 20:31 |
| @frodwith | why would I be? | 20:31 |
| @frodwith | that's not what processTemplate did, is the short answer | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | because you reimplemented it inside getTemplateVariables? | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and if we change what get does, we'll need to track down every place that does things like that, and fix them too? | 20:32 |
| @preaction | in the version i'm looking at, processTemplate calls get() | 20:32 |
| @preaction | must be an 8 thing | 20:32 |
| @frodwith | that's assuming you want to change getTemplateVariables to match what get() does | 20:32 |
| @frodwith | but I don't see any real problem with calling get() | 20:33 |
| @frodwith | perlDreamer: what do you mean about slowing down HTML::Template? | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | HTML::Template's speed is directly related to the # of template variables you give it | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | even if they aren't used | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | we ran some experiements 2 years ago with template variables with i18n labels | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | vs putting in more macros to do the same thing | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | by removing the i18n labels as template variables and changing them to macros, we got good speedups in template processing | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | this is going to slow WebGUI down | 20:35 |
| +perlDreamer | and, I don't think any of these extra variables would even work in HTML::Template | 20:35 |
| +perlDreamer | since you can't make deep calls like one can in H::T::Dot and TT | 20:35 |
| @frodwith | They would work fine with template variable downgrading | 20:35 |
| +perlDreamer | so, in H::T and any other plugin, remove them? | 20:36 |
| @preaction | no, downgrading is more useful than that | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | then we need to go through and document in every set of template variable help which ones are available in which plugins | 20:36 |
| @frodwith | no, the docs for how downgrading work are in the processor base class | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | if we were using TT, I'd say this is a great idea | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | great enough that we ought to go rewrite all the templates to use it | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | and the template help | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | but it has nothing to do with the metadata variable revisioning | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | and I think we should pull it out and put it on the side for now | 20:37 |
| @frodwith | not -nothing- to do | 20:37 |
| @frodwith | because of the metadata stuff inside getTemplateVariables | 20:38 |
| @frodwith | but | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 20:38 |
| @frodwith | point taken | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | the metadata stuff would live okay outside getTemplateVariables | 20:38 |
| @frodwith | right | 20:38 |
| @frodwith | but anyways, have a look at how variable downgrading works. The variables would be just as available in H::T. | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | where should I look for this? | 20:40 |
| @frodwith | WebGUI::Asset::Template::Processor, I believe | 20:40 |
| @frodwith | Parser rather | 20:41 |
| sbaur | perlDreamer: fyi i just bounced the webserver on server39 | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks sbaur! | 20:43 |
| sbaur | in case something squaks | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | life would be so much easier if we were already on TT | 20:44 |
| +perlDreamer | having multiple template parsers with different philosophies means a ton of work | 20:44 |
| @preaction | yes, but there will always be a better template system | 20:45 |
| @preaction | just as there will always be a better dispatch system | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | of course, but right now I'm thinking of keeping the template variable docs up to date | 20:45 |
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| @preaction | the downgrade is programmatic, can't the docs be processed? | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | we have dotted template variables that are changed to _'s | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | and with this, we'll have dotted template variables that work correctly in both parsers | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe, instead of rewriting them to _'s originally, we should have build hashes of template variables | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | like downgrade does, but calling it upgrade | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | there's too much backwards compatibility in the system | 20:49 |
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| elnino | hi. according to this http://www.webgui.org/forums/install/apache-modproxy-restart/stop-failure, am I to assume that the testEnvironment.pl now installes missing modules automatically? | 20:53 |
| elnino | That's a nice new feature! | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | testEnvironment.pl has done that for a while | 20:55 |
| elnino | oh. had a pretty old version.. =) and currently do not have a webgui server.. Say, does it restart the services too? | 20:55 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 20:55 |
| elnino | I think I had 7.4 | 20:55 |
| elnino | ok. | 20:55 |
| +perlDreamer | because you can run WebGUI outside of the wre | 20:56 |
| elnino | good to know. | 20:56 |
| @frodwith | so perlDreamer, this patch would need to document the availability of the additional template variables somewhere | 21:10 |
| @frodwith | and the extra variables will make H::T slower | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | everywhere | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | based on what we learned earlier, yes | 21:11 |
| @frodwith | well, I'll do some benchmarking to see what kind of slowdown we're talking about | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | one of the hopes of the template variable list was that someday, with a complete list of available variables you could build a WYSIWIG template editors with integrated help | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | so if you drop down a loop, it would tell you what variables are available in the loop | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | and so on | 21:12 |
| @frodwith | I don't think that's going to happen for the 7 series | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | no, I'd agree | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | and it's pretty iffy on 8 as well | 21:12 |
| @frodwith | i'd probably stave that off until we're on One True Templating System | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | It's like Heinz ketchup | 21:13 |
| @frodwith | what do you mean about documenting it "everywhere" though? | 21:13 |
| @frodwith | wouldn't it just be in the help for asset? | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | probably needs to be in the help for each asset | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | since each asset has a unique set of variables | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | and no one will read Asset.pm's template help, to find out help for the Article | 21:14 |
| @frodwith | well, we could throw in a note | 21:15 |
| @frodwith | on every help page | 21:15 |
| @frodwith | "here are some special template variables that are available everywhere" | 21:15 |
| +perlDreamer | but every help template doesn't use getTemplateVariables, only view methods? | 21:15 |
| @frodwith | well, everyone that uses processTemplate | 21:15 |
| @frodwith | uses it | 21:15 |
| @frodwith | which, admittedly, isn't everything. | 21:16 |
| @frodwith | if they did, though, use either processTemplate or getTemplateVariables | 21:20 |
| @frodwith | -then- we could put in such a note, eh? | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | totally | 21:21 |
| @preaction | and as i discussed with frodwith as he started this, eventually processTemplate itself won't exist, as we'll be returning the template, not the output of the template | 21:22 |
| @preaction | and that might be sooner rather than later, as www_edit will be rather annoying without that | 21:22 |
| @frodwith | in 8 | 21:23 |
| @preaction | yes | 21:23 |
| @frodwith | obviously it will always work this way in 7 | 21:23 |
| @preaction | unless i decide to backport it to 7.10, even if i don't actually use it anywhere | 21:23 |
| @frodwith | but regardless | 21:23 |
| @frodwith | if I pull getTemplateVariables out of this patch | 21:23 |
| @frodwith | and someone.... doug.... | 21:23 |
| @frodwith | does an audit of the existing template processing to make sure they all use getTemplateVariables | 21:24 |
| @frodwith | or processTemplate | 21:24 |
| @frodwith | then this could go in, -assuming- it isn't too much of a slowdown. | 21:24 |
| @frodwith | which I will be determining momentarily | 21:24 |
| @frodwith | but perlDreamer, if the getTemplateVariables stuff is undone from this patch, the metadata stuff is good? | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I got mired in getTV,I'll keep reading | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | did you run the whole test suite on a CentOS WRE, including live tests? | 21:26 |
| @frodwith | first I was told run the whole test suite. Then run it on a particular wre version. Then it has to be on centos, also. | 21:26 |
| @frodwith | This is where I complain. | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | most WebGUI users use that setup | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | there have been cases of database table case naming | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | test module versioning issues | 21:28 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm pretty sure the subtest won't work on a WRE'd WebGUI | 21:28 |
| @frodwith | I ran the whole test suite, not including the live tests because the metadata shouldn't effect them at all, and I'm not setting up a vm to run the test suite on. And if that's the commit policy, then it's no wonder no one contributes any code to this project. | 21:28 |
| @preaction | it's not and never has been our policy to require a clean test run on a specific setup. i don't even run the WRE anymore | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | so how do we vette code that crashes our production servers when it's installed? | 21:30 |
| @preaction | the same way we've always done. we can't protect against everything | 21:31 |
| @preaction | yes, this is potentially a dramatic change, but not so dramatic that i think there will be cause for alarm | 21:35 |
| @preaction | versioned metadata might cause more problems than getTemplateVariables, honestly | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | all the right code is in there, purgeRev, addRev, etc | 21:44 |
| +perlDreamer | need to make sure that's all tested in the tests, though | 21:45 |
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| +perlDreamer | frodwith, when an asset is duplicated, does it copy over all the metadata, or just the latest version? | 21:45 |
| @frodwith | it should just be the latest version, I would think | 21:46 |
| @frodwith | doesn't duplicate only do one revision? | 21:46 |
| @frodwith | or does it do all of them? | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | duplicate just does one | 21:46 |
| @preaction | afaik duplicate is the latest revision | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm reading the patch quickly, but are there tests for purgeRev, duplicate, and so on that verify their behavior with versioned metadata? | 21:47 |
| @frodwith | There are tests to make sure that metadata is versioned, but not that purgeRev deletes metadata for that revision | 21:47 |
| @frodwith | I can certainly add such a test | 21:48 |
| +perlDreamer | or duplicate only takes the latest version? | 21:48 |
| @frodwith | ditto for duplicate | 21:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll have to backport the Story.pm changes to 7.9. Not having the metadata variables in the edit form is a bug. | 21:50 |
| @frodwith | probably need template help for those as well in some fashion? | 21:51 |
| +perlDreamer | only that they exist | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | the system has no way of knowing which ones are available | 21:52 |
| @frodwith | right | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | but again, that's my bad since I didn't put them in there in the first place | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | kind of like the broken links in the keywords when exporting a story | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | that should have worked in the first place | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | so I upgraded that to a bug, and fixed it (today) | 21:52 |
| @frodwith | Can't get everything right the first time | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | I like your test collateral | 21:54 |
| @frodwith | mm? | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | Wisconsin country and city names? | 21:55 |
| @frodwith | ah ;) | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | frodwith, I'm sorry that I tried to make you run tests with more requirement than I should have. | 22:15 |
| @frodwith | that's okay perlDreamer. | 22:21 |
| -!- kaare_ [~kaare@91.100.9.242.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:03 | |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: little CS email checking problem | 23:03 |
| @preaction | sup | 23:03 |
| +perlDreamer | it uses the Interval form control, which lets you set small intervals | 23:03 |
| +perlDreamer | which WebGUI interprets as 0 minutes | 23:03 |
| +perlDreamer | via Cron | 23:03 |
| +perlDreamer | so it never checks for email for CS'es, ever | 23:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm tempted to fix this with some hoverhelp which no one will ever read, and a minimum set via pffpp | 23:04 |
| +perlDreamer | either that, or a switch to the Interval form plugin to not allow anything smaller than 1 minute | 23:05 |
| @preaction | couldn't we say 0 minutes is every minute when changing the cron? | 23:07 |
| @preaction | if we want it to never check, we'd disable it | 23:07 |
| +perlDreamer | so, inside the CS, we make interval < 1 minute == 1 minute | 23:08 |
| @preaction | well, i'd say inside the CS, if it's less than 1 minute, we just change "minuteOfHour" to be * instead of */something | 23:09 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe it's worse than that | 23:14 |
| +perlDreamer | if minuteOfHour isn't an integer, does it break? | 23:14 |
| @preaction | probably. dunno | 23:14 |
| ckotil | will there ever be fine grained access control in the wiki pages contained within the wiki asset? | 23:17 |
| +perlDreamer | fine grained how? | 23:18 |
| @preaction | and why? | 23:18 |
| ckotil | the wiki child pages adhear to the wiki assets permissions. viewably by and able to edit. | 23:18 |
| ckotil | let's say a wiki page i want to be available to everyone, but the wiki asset already says that group foo is the only group to view it | 23:18 |
| +perlDreamer | if we exposed that as a form variable to the wiki edit interface | 23:20 |
| +perlDreamer | then, you'd have to modify just about every web facing method in the wiki master to support it | 23:20 |
| +perlDreamer | since they don't check per-asset permissions on wiki pages | 23:21 |
| ckotil | so a lot of work | 23:22 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but doable | 23:22 |
| ckotil | it's not a big deal to me. I dont use it. one of my user bases do use it. but I told them from the start about the limited access controls in the wiki. | 23:22 |
| ckotil | just wondering if this was the intentional design for the wiki, or an oversight. | 23:23 |
| @preaction | intentional, to mimic mediawiki | 23:24 |
| ckotil | cool | 23:24 |
| @preaction | your best bet would be to copy the content into an article, really | 23:24 |
| @preaction | our best bet might be to allow Asset Report to bypass permissions, if it even checks them | 23:25 |
| ckotil | im hoping i can use the shortcut asset to override the permissions | 23:25 |
| ckotil | IF the situation arises where I have to make a wiki page public or viewable to another group. | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | that might work | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | as long as calls to getParent call back to the parent wiki | 23:26 |
| sbaur | so I'm only looking at 7.6 stuff at the moment, but did later versions start documenting database changes somewhere (i have a vague recollection of migration.txt as a possible name)? | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | instead of the shortcut's parent | 23:26 |
| ckotil | pd: yeah. ill try it out and let you all know. | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | sbaur: migration.txt was for the 6 to 7 transition | 23:27 |
| +perlDreamer | it doesn't exist in the repository any longer | 23:27 |
| @preaction | sbaur: migration.txt is for code migration. there is a latest schema document, but otherwise we don't guarantee db schema | 23:27 |
| +perlDreamer | other than that, you best bet is to check the upgrade subroutines | 23:27 |
| sbaur | ick, but ok | 23:27 |
| +perlDreamer | is there something in particular that you're looking for, or just general info for education? | 23:28 |
| sbaur | one of my test migrations sites is blowing up because survey_id got renamed to assetId in the survey_response table | 23:28 |
| +perlDreamer | was 7.6 the new Survey asset? | 23:28 |
| sbaur | nope | 23:28 |
| sbaur | i think 7.5 was | 23:29 |
| sbaur | just means my upgrades are harder to coordinate because I have to switch codebases for my custom code as well as upgrading the site | 23:30 |
| +perlDreamer | no, it was 7.6 | 23:30 |
| sbaur | 7.6.4. i see it now | 23:32 |
| sbaur | hmmm, maybe that's why i never got my sites upgraded last year | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | were we careful and put a notice in the 7.6 gotchas file about the new Survey? | 23:33 |
| sbaur | The Survey system has been completely updated. Please make sure you | 23:33 |
| sbaur | create full backups of your survey results and export them as needed. | 23:33 |
| sbaur | Results will not be imported into the new Survey system. Your old surveys | 23:33 |
| sbaur | will be imported into the new survey system. | 23:33 |
| ckotil | w00t. shortcut overrides work to override permissions of wiki children. | 23:34 |
| ckotil | fyi | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, nothing as thorough as, "Any custom code you've written for the old Survey will no longer work." | 23:34 |
| sbaur | um, no | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | but "completely updated" should give one pause | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil: is the new shortcut inside the WikiMaster, or outside it? | 23:35 |
| sbaur | yes, but unfortunately i read them while concentrating on one site, not really thinking about the other "little" site | 23:35 |
| ckotil | outside | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | that's understandable, and something more clear wouldn't hurt | 23:38 |
| ckotil | and i just made a shortcut of a wiki page. not the master. | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil, I'd guess that inside the Master that it wouldn't work, since it only gets assets of class WikiPage | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | still, cool that you can work around the system that way | 23:39 |
| ckotil | yeah. good work around to have in the arsenal | 23:40 |
| ckotil | bc I know it's only a matter of time before my wiki users want to make a page public. even though they assured me before starting to use the wiki that they wouldnt. | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | that would make a good wiki entry in the WebGUI wiki | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | seems ironic... | 23:42 |
| ckotil | heh | 23:45 |
| ckotil | i noticed i also can't override the style template of the wiki child. | 23:47 |
| +perlDreamer | well, you can, but it doesn't matter | 23:47 |
| +perlDreamer | it looks that up in the parent | 23:47 |
| ckotil | ah. ok. | 23:47 |
| +perlDreamer | $self->getWiki->processStyle($self->view); | 23:47 |
| sbaur | Is there any resource (besides the actual code) where I (the non programmer) can get an understanding of what changes where made to Survey in 7.6? | 23:48 |
| @preaction | so if i'm making templates into objects passed back up the chain, what should we do with styles? call it wrapper and try to mimic TT as much as possible? | 23:49 |
| @preaction | sbaur: it was rewritten from scratch. nothing remains. destroyed completely. | 23:49 |
| sbaur | well, that's something I guess | 23:49 |
| sbaur | :) | 23:49 |
| @preaction | you can try it out on a demo site | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | I think she was looking for a way to update her custom code on that aforementioned little site | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | and docs would help with that | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | unfortunately, all we have is tribal knowledge | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | sbaur, if you have specific questions, we could probably answer them | 23:51 |
| @preaction | what does the custom code do? | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | but it was a complete rewrite | 23:51 |
| sbaur | luckily, my macro was easy to update, but the responses viewing, i have to dig into a bit | 23:52 |
| ckotil | thanks guys. have a good night. | 23:52 |
| +perlDreamer | later, ckotil | 23:52 |
| sbaur | I think I'll tackle, the "why is my style showing ^admintoggle... first -- my guess is a nested macro | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | no, that sounds like a bug that was fixed | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | macro processing was missing from some of the templates | 23:55 |
| sbaur | so fixed in 7.7 somewhere? | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't remember which version it was fixed in | 23:55 |
| sbaur | I'm at the latest 7.6 | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd grab a webgui-7.9 docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt and search for macro | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | or, try the bug board | 23:56 |
| sbaur | it's definitely part of a nested macro, which I know was a problem with 7.5 to 7.6 | 23:56 |
| sbaur | if I take it out of the "nest" it works fine | 23:57 |
| sbaur | so if it was a bug, it got fixed in 7.6 somewhere | 23:57 |
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| --- Day changed Thu Feb 10 2011 | ||
| sbaur | is there some trick to figuring out which assets are using a particular style template? short of grepping a db dump? | 00:24 |
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| xdanger | patspam: just reading the backlog and noticed that you asked about screen+irssi with desktop notify. Did you find a solution yet? | 00:45 |
| @preaction | sbaur: the db dump will be your easiest option | 00:46 |
| sbaur | my 600 mb db, makes it not quite so easy | 00:47 |
| sbaur | but yeah, i was afraid of that | 00:47 |
| @preaction | well, SELECT title, url FROM assetData JOIN wobject USING (assetId, revisionDate) WHERE styleTemplateId="" | 00:47 |
| @preaction | better when the dump is inside the DB, really | 00:47 |
| sbaur | w00t, that got me a place to look and see if our old nested macro fix added extra single quotes into the live site or not | 00:49 |
| sbaur | and, it does add some extra quotes. oh well. I think I will live with them instead of having to change all my templates after the upgrade | 00:53 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: you and your fancy shmancy sql queries that are actually useful to users | 01:32 |
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| daniel_b | Hi. Does anyone run WebGUI on PostgreSQL? Or does it have to many MySQL-isms to do that? | 09:12 |
| @preaction | most likely it has too many mysql-specific sql to work in pg | 09:14 |
| daniel_b | Too bad. | 09:15 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:38 |
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| +danny_mk | Good day, under new templates I only get "Add New Value->" something must be broken someplace, any hints? | 17:58 |
| +danny_mk | I am referring to the Namespace field | 17:59 |
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| scrottie0 | what's the end of the URL that you're looking at? eg for http://foo.com/bar/baz?quux, what's bar/baz?quux ? | 18:18 |
| +danny_mk | scrottie0: are you addressing me or someone else? | 18:21 |
| scrottie0 | danny_mk, you. | 18:26 |
| scrottie0 | I'm trying to figure out what screen you're looking at. | 18:26 |
| +danny_mk | When I go to create a new template the only choice I get is "Add New Value->" in the template field. The url is: https://www.mywebsite.com/root/templates?noCache=12:1297355344;func=add;class=WebGUI::Asset::Template | 18:29 |
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| scrottie0 | hey perlDreamer. | 18:31 |
| +perlDreamer | hey scrottie0 | 18:31 |
| +perlDreamer | you're up early today :) | 18:31 |
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| scrottie0 | not really. | 18:33 |
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| scrottie0 | danny_mk, yeah, that sounds messed up to me. what does your /root/import look like? | 18:44 |
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| +danny_mk | scrottie0: in WebGUI or filesystem? | 19:28 |
| +danny_mk | in webgui it looks fine | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | if no namespaces show up in that dropdown, it's bad | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | since WebGUI is building a list of existing namespaces from the template table | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | it needs those to help display a list of template that is context aware | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | so, if you only want Article templates, it only shows you article templates | 19:34 |
| +danny_mk | right, what do I check? Should I just make sure that the template table has valid namespaces? | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | if it does, then it may be some other kind of issue | 19:36 |
| +danny_mk | what would be an invalid namespace? would null be invalid? | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | null would be invalid, especially since, in your note above, you said that all of them were blank | 19:36 |
| +danny_mk | I only have two choices "leave blank" or "add new value" that is it. I will check the template table now | 19:38 |
| scrottie0 | next step, I'd pull up one of the templates in root/import (yeah, WebGUI, not the filesystem) and see what it has for a namespace, if anything. I'm not sure how the templates would continue to exist but with nothing for namespaces. | 19:40 |
| scrottie0 | I guess MySQL is capable of anything with regards to database corruption. | 19:41 |
| scrottie0 | also let me know if you're able to open up a mysql shell (I'm not sure how you have this hosted). | 19:44 |
| +danny_mk | OK, one of the templates had a null namespace. Field definition in the table: namespace | varchar(35) | YES | MUL | Page | 19:51 |
| +danny_mk | that is not cool | 19:51 |
| +danny_mk | I fixed the one null record and whalla! got what I expected, problem fixed. | 19:51 |
| scrottie0 | strange. | 19:59 |
| scrottie0 | I'd expect one null option in the list of valid values, in that case. | 20:00 |
| +danny_mk | sounds like I should put in a bug report, what do you think? | 20:01 |
| scrottie0 | wouldn't bother me any. I don't see offhand what would cause that behavior. er, it wouldn't bother me if you filled a report. | 20:03 |
| scrottie0 | I'm glad that the data is basically still all there in your database. | 20:05 |
| +danny_mk | put one null value in the namespace field of one of your templates. A field that allows nulls should not break the dropdown box options. | 20:06 |
| scrottie0 | doesn't seem to be a problem with WebGUI::Form::Combo. | 20:17 |
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| +danny_mk | Hmmm... I have tried to reproduce this behavior on three different servers using the current version and none of them seem affected, must have been a problem with that one system. | 23:04 |
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| sbaur | perlDreamer: once upon a long time ago, you put a 7.6.35.2 version into the bazaar. Any idea how I can actually get the search to find it for me? (I get one non related hit searching for 7.6.35.2 no hits when searching for 7.6.35) | 23:34 |
| sbaur | Looks like it fixes a bug we are running into | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | I think there's also a copy on sourceforge | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | under community releases? | 23:35 |
| sbaur | oh cool | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | http://sourceforge.net/projects/pbwebgui/files/Community%20Releases/7.6.35.2/ | 23:36 |
| sbaur | nope, nothing comes back with community releases on either the bazaar search or the sitewide search | 23:36 |
| sbaur | you rock! | 23:36 |
| sbaur | oh, the community releases comment was for SF... | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah :) | 23:37 |
| @preaction | should we just give Ning a direct line to put her templates into WebGUI? http://www.webgui.org/addons/theme:-design-studio | 23:57 |
| --- Day changed Fri Feb 11 2011 | ||
| +perlDreamer | if we don't have to worry about i18n, good macro usage, and cross-style layout issues (like the one that was just fixed in Underground), then no | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | but I don't think we have any standards for those right now anyway, aside from the test suite | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | which a designer isn't likely set up to run | 00:07 |
| sbaur | Did you guys have to do a lot of work to the 7.6 survey in 7.7? Because it hates me in 7.6 | 00:20 |
| +perlDreamer | using grep, there are 47 mentions of the survey since 7.7.0 | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | there's some overlap in the 7.7 serries, since survey patches were made in 7.7 beta AND 7.6 stable at the same time | 00:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and that's based on looking at the changelog | 00:24 |
| sbaur | i just tried to create a 2 question multiple choice survey using all default templates, and the result is not usable (e.g. i do not even see my question text) | 00:25 |
| sbaur | I will go read the bugs/etc, but I'm starting to think it'll be less work to take the old survey forward under a new name... | 00:26 |
| +perlDreamer | that could work | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe you could upgrade further? | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | have you tried a demo site to check out a recent survey? | 00:27 |
| sbaur | not yet, that was going to be part of the etc | 00:27 |
| sbaur | otoh, taking the other site on that server even up to 7.7 is going to require some more fixing of our custom code, which we do not have time for at least until summer | 00:28 |
| +perlDreamer | what other changes happened in 7.7 that are going to affect your code? | 00:29 |
| sbaur | my one test upgrade to 7.7 left me with the "omg this is a lot of work" impression, but it may not be as bad as i think | 00:29 |
| +perlDreamer | iirc, 7.7, 7.8 and 7.9 include upgrades to default templates | 00:29 |
| sbaur | um, i'm not remembering right at the moment | 00:29 |
| +perlDreamer | :q | 00:30 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, okay | 00:30 |
| sbaur | well, it seems to work on demo, though it's possible my editing somehow fubared it on my test env. | 00:39 |
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| @preaction | this is what comes of not having easily extended applications :( | 00:50 |
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| sbaur | perhaps why i thought the 7.6 survey hated me. It defaults to only letting people take it once, so did not show me anything useful after my first time through | 01:36 |
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| +perlDreamer | sbaur, I think that's a setting in the survey | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | and it defaults to 1 | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | it's called maxResponsesPerUser | 02:30 |
| sbaur | it is, and i found it, and it doesn't hate me nearly as much, though i'm wishing for an easy way to turn boxes into circles. but that's why we have designers on staff | 02:31 |
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| @preaction | new idea: every error message that gets shown to the user should also show up in the logs. agree/disagree? | 02:41 |
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| inkvizitor68sl | hi all | 02:55 |
| inkvizitor68sl | i have webgui installed from .deb | 02:55 |
| inkvizitor68sl | where i can find it via web-face ? | 02:55 |
| inkvizitor68sl | oops | 02:56 |
| * inkvizitor68sl found README | 02:56 | |
| inkvizitor68sl | sorry for noise >_> | 02:56 |
| @preaction | no worries, we're here if you need us | 02:57 |
| @preaction | i don't think too many of us here have actually used the debian package, haven't seen ernesto around in a while (unless i'm missing his nick) | 02:58 |
| inkvizitor68sl | hm.. it could be good idea to move /usr/share/doc/webgui/README.Debian.gz to man =) | 02:58 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, definitely agree | 03:03 |
| @preaction | ok, if i find more, i'll keep logging them | 03:03 |
| @preaction | migrating to FormBuilder is really. really. boring. | 03:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought it would be challenging and massively frustrating | 03:04 |
| @preaction | it's boring because i'm rewriting something i know i'll be rewriting again later | 03:04 |
| @preaction | when i actually make progress, it's fun! | 03:04 |
| @preaction | like migrating Operation::Settings, was not bad at all | 03:04 |
| @preaction | next up is Operation::User, should be the same, pretty simple, even though i get to migrate Profile and more Auth bits | 03:05 |
| @preaction | it's the places that do ->raw() that are the evil ones | 03:05 |
| @preaction | and most of those places are apps that we want to rewrite with a revision | 03:05 |
| +perlDreamer | "rewrite with a revision" ? | 03:07 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * ra3a5d44 / (6 files in 3 dirs): migrate Settings operation to FormBuilder (+14 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/dO5pNs | 03:07 |
| +perlDreamer | like 8.1 ? | 03:07 |
| @preaction | during 8.x or 9.x yes | 03:08 |
| @preaction | Project Manager, for instance, i'm skipping. Matrix too. | 03:09 |
| @preaction | other apps I don't know what our plans are. | 03:09 |
| +perlDreamer | Project Manager, Time Tracker, EMS | 03:10 |
| +perlDreamer | Dashboard | 03:10 |
| @preaction | exactly | 03:10 |
| @preaction | so if we're going to rewrite them completely (again, in some cases), why am I rewriting all their form stuff? | 03:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought we were going to repo-ify them | 03:11 |
| +perlDreamer | and not rewrite them | 03:11 |
| @preaction | some of them yes, but does that mean they need FormBuilder? | 03:11 |
| @preaction | anyway, sushi time | 03:12 |
| +perlDreamer | fish on! | 03:12 |
| @preaction | the most important bit is making sure the APIs that require bits of FormBuilder forms to be returned are working, the rest... is it really necessary? | 03:12 |
| +perlDreamer | you'd learn a lot by converting them | 03:12 |
| +perlDreamer | since people with custom code may be in the same boat | 03:12 |
| +perlDreamer | and I don't know how likely they are to do a rewrite vs an upgrade | 03:13 |
| +perlDreamer | in any case, you have fish, seaweed and rice waiting for you | 03:13 |
| +perlDreamer | and I have to cook dinner for The Thundering Hoard | 03:14 |
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| SDuensin | fRiDaY!! | 16:37 |
| +bartjol | any ideas to insert a macro in HTMLForm code? | 17:06 |
| +bartjol | as a form element? | 17:08 |
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| scrottie0 | https://github.com/blog/793-introducing-the-file-finder | 18:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | very nice. Thanks for the tip, scrottie0! | 18:36 |
| * scrottie0 tips his imaginary hat | 18:39 | |
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| --- Day changed Sat Feb 12 2011 | ||
| @preaction | why does git cherry-pick insist on updating a huge portion of the changelog file? | 00:02 |
| @preaction | trying to cherrypick a commit from 7.10 to 7.5 means the changelog gets updated with all the data between | 00:02 |
| @preaction | is it trying to establish the context? | 00:02 |
| scrottie0 | my understanding is that it has to rebase all changes past the cherry-pick | 00:10 |
| scrottie0 | hrm. wait. what? | 00:11 |
| @preaction | nm, now it's not doing it for some reason, i fixed the way i was specifying the list of commits to cherry-pick | 00:12 |
| @preaction | but i get a double patch or something. one sec | 00:12 |
| scrottie0 | hrm. makes something like git checkout old-branch; git diff new-branch path/file | patch -p1;git add path/file;git commit tempting. | 00:13 |
| @preaction | https://gist.github.com/823149 <- how do I fix conflicts there? there's two levels of patching. wtf? | 00:14 |
| scrottie0 | I guess it needs the stuff the change is relative to, and the stuff those changes are relative to, and so on. if the cherry-pick modifies the same commit in both branches, then it doesn't need anything extra. | 00:14 |
| scrottie0 | if you're cherry-picking onto something that was modified, then you have history and conflicts. | 00:14 |
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| @preaction | but it wasn't modified, it's the base 7.5.40 tag | 00:15 |
| @preaction | then i git cherry-pick -n 41ac1f153e2ab03c80f08206ce61825324d3c51d..61245baaaadf71f401c5b057a54ca1bd20b31a4e | 00:15 |
| @preaction | which gives me the diff i pasted to gist | 00:15 |
| scrottie0 | if the commit is on top of the same commit, why would you have a conflict? im-poss-e-ble'! | 00:16 |
| @preaction | and i must really be crazy, because that isn't how the file looks. | 00:16 |
| scrottie0 | er, the cherry pick commit is on top of the... | 00:16 |
| scrottie0 | yes, git causes insanity. | 00:16 |
| scrottie0 | if the cherry-pick doesn't apply entirely to the same base commit in both branches/versions, then I wouldn't cherry-pick. I'd make a diff and apply it, manually if needed. | 00:17 |
| scrottie0 | but it seems like veryone gits a bit differently. | 00:17 |
| @preaction | actually, i was just freaking out over a weird looking git diff. the files were normal, i did the merge, committed the result, and everything's fine | 00:19 |
| scrottie0 | brimstone and damnation, I'm telling ya! | 00:21 |
| @preaction | indeed. thyre by dragyns | 00:22 |
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| elnino | when we move sites to plainblack, do we give the files to you> or are you willign to login to the old server and grab the files? is there a fee for that? | 05:38 |
| @preaction | you have to make the db dump and the uploads tarball. we can help with what commands to run | 05:40 |
| elnino | ok. thanks. | 05:40 |
| elnino | do you have a ftp site we can upload them too? | 05:40 |
| @preaction | we can set something up, but i would suggest Dropbox | 05:40 |
| elnino | ok. Ill see how that works. | 05:41 |
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| @khenn | anyone around? | 20:25 |
| @khenn | wondering if anyone else is having trouble with this module: PerlIO::eol | 20:25 |
| @khenn | I installed it and cpan finds it | 20:25 |
| @khenn | but when I run testEnvironment WebGUI is telling me it's not installed | 20:25 |
| @khenn | and when I start modperl I get this: | 20:26 |
| @khenn | Error loading WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Thingy: Could not load WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Thingy because Can't load '/data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.0/darwin-2level/auto/PerlIO/eol/eol.bundle' for module PerlIO::eol: dlopen(/data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.0/darwin-2level/auto/PerlIO/eol/eol.bundle, 1): no suitable image found. | 20:26 |
| Haarg | seems like it didn't compile correctly | 20:49 |
| Haarg | possibly 64-bit problems | 20:49 |
| @khenn | yeah there are cpan reports about issues with 64 bit machines | 21:03 |
| @khenn | I'm going to have to comment the code out for now | 21:03 |
| @khenn | just affects Thingy I guess | 21:03 |
| @khenn | might want to think about a different module | 21:04 |
| @khenn | I manually updated XSLoader and now I can get to the tests | 21:08 |
| @khenn | but the test are failing | 21:08 |
| @khenn | heh | 21:08 |
| @khenn | piece of crap | 21:08 |
| Haarg | it's probably an issue with your wre setup | 21:11 |
| Haarg | i think preaction has that stuff fixed but i don't know if it's been released | 21:12 |
| @khenn | what would my wresetup have to do with it? | 21:12 |
| @preaction | yes, what platform you need it for/ | 21:12 |
| @khenn | macosx | 21:13 |
| @khenn | 64bit | 21:13 |
| @preaction | i've got a set for a few things | 21:13 |
| @preaction | let me check quick | 21:13 |
| Haarg | the wre you have is probably 32bit, but you are on a 64bit machine | 21:13 |
| @khenn | ah | 21:13 |
| Haarg | so some of the stuff doesn't compile right | 21:13 |
| @khenn | so I'm running a 32bit version of Perl? | 21:13 |
| Haarg | most likely | 21:13 |
| @preaction | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/226725/wre-0.9.4-macosx-10.6-prereqs.tar.gz <- here's a /data/wre/prereqs directory that should work | 21:14 |
| @khenn | alrgiht | 21:14 |
| @khenn | can I copy this over my old wre folder or should I back up and create a new one? | 21:17 |
| @preaction | you can copy it over your old prereqs folder | 21:17 |
| @preaction | well, no, move it and create a new one, sorry | 21:17 |
| @khenn | k | 21:17 |
| @khenn | I'll have to move mysql data | 21:17 |
| @preaction | no | 21:17 |
| @khenn | an config fiels I guess | 21:17 |
| @preaction | just the prereqs | 21:17 |
| @preaction | just /data/wre/prereqs | 21:17 |
| @khenn | all my data is in /data/wre/var/mysqldata | 21:18 |
| @khenn | wait | 21:18 |
| @khenn | nm | 21:18 |
| @khenn | I see what you are saying | 21:18 |
| @khenn | leave the existing wre folder | 21:18 |
| @khenn | and copy prereqs from the new file | 21:19 |
| @preaction | right | 21:19 |
| @khenn | k thx | 21:19 |
| @khenn | Can't load '/data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/darwin-2level/auto/Image/Magick/Magick.bundle' for module Image::Magick: dlopen(/data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/darwin-2level/auto/Image/Magick/Magick.bundle, 1): Symbol not found: __cg_DGifGetLine\n | 21:24 |
| @khenn | looks like it's not installed | 21:25 |
| @khenn | I'll update some of this stuff and see what happenes | 21:25 |
| @khenn | seems like there are worse problems with this one unfortunately | 21:27 |
| @khenn | Apache2::Request won't even install here | 21:27 |
| @preaction | you do have OSX 10.6, right? | 21:30 |
| @khenn | er no | 21:30 |
| @khenn | wait | 21:30 |
| @khenn | yeah 10.6.6 | 21:30 |
| @khenn | I moved prereqs | 21:31 |
| @khenn | deflated the tar into a clean prereqs | 21:31 |
| @khenn | and then ran setEnvironment again to be safe | 21:31 |
| @khenn | and testEnvironment is dumping that a number of modules are missing: | 21:32 |
| @khenn | Checking for module Image::Magick: Not installed, but you're not root, so you need to ask your administrator to install it. | 21:32 |
| @khenn | Checking for module Apache2::Request: Not installed, but you're not root, so you need to ask your administrator to install it. | 21:32 |
| @khenn | those are the biggies | 21:32 |
| @khenn | the others are minor | 21:32 |
| @khenn | when I try to install Image::Magick cpan is telling me 6.6.6 is already installed | 21:32 |
| @preaction | because it is, it just can't load | 21:32 |
| @khenn | ah | 21:33 |
| @khenn | then I assume the same is true for Apache2::Request | 21:33 |
| @preaction | most likely | 21:34 |
| @preaction | you can try checking out the WRE source and building it yourself, i'm still not sure why OSX's compiler reports certain things | 21:35 |
| @preaction | let me do a checkin quick though | 21:35 |
| @khenn | k | 21:42 |
| CIA-78 | wrebuild: Doug Bell master * r5db8e32 / (build.sh getperlmodules.sh getsource.sh): update perlcfgopts and some outdated sources - http://bit.ly/i7mEjL | 21:43 |
| @preaction | should work now, though the standard warnings about getsource and getperlmodules apply | 21:43 |
| @preaction | if getperlmodules fails with a CPANMIRROR, change it to a BACKPANMIRROR and it should work | 21:43 |
| @preaction | getsource, if it fails, you'll have to go looking for it | 21:43 |
| @preaction | next version of WRE isn't going to be so dependent on version numbers strewn about the scripts | 21:44 |
| @khenn | ok | 21:46 |
| carogray | Hi all, can anyone answer a "web server" question? | 21:48 |
| carogray | we have Meebo IM embedded on page on our WebGUI site, which is on virtual server at PB | 21:49 |
| carogray | someone outside of my website group has asserted that our webserver should be able to log - keep track of - the number of times our users actually chat using the Meebo widget. | 21:50 |
| carogray | To me this is like asking our Plain Back server to keep track of the number of times a user looks at YouTube videos embedded on our site. Is this possible? | 21:50 |
| @khenn | awstats I believe can track some of that | 21:51 |
| @preaction | no. none of the meebo traffic travels through the webgui site, so the webgui site cannot track it | 21:51 |
| @khenn | I stand corrected | 21:52 |
| @preaction | it's like the chat on thegamecrafter.com or thelacunaexpanse.com | 21:52 |
| @khenn | oh right | 21:52 |
| @khenn | they are external requests | 21:52 |
| scrottie0 | PerlIO::eol ... I vaguely remember upgrading version of something else to fix this | 22:17 |
| scrottie0 | short of dynamically re-writing HTML, like some of these "anonymous browse" proxies do, yeah, ... | 22:18 |
| @khenn | well if you can think of what you upgraded ... | 23:28 |
| @khenn | I'm all ears | 23:28 |
| @khenn | not having much luck building the wre | 23:28 |
| @khenn | that's more likely a motivational issue however =) | 23:28 |
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| --- Day changed Sun Feb 13 2011 | ||
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| scrottie0 | http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/A/AU/AUDREYT/PerlIO-eol-0.14.tar.gz ... what version do you have? | 02:00 |
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| danny_mk | hello everyone, how can I suppress the ?noCache... at the end of the ^PageUrl; macro? | 17:17 |
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| danny_mk | alright, if anyone knows the answer please send me a message to my box on the webgui.org site. gotta run, thanks. | 18:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: what do you think of sidestepping the whole "reindex Thing and progeny in editSave" in favor or a workflow activity that we kick off on commit? | 23:40 |
| @preaction | you could use webgui fork and then not care about the output | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | right now, Fork only seems to be used for Progress Bars and their ilk | 23:45 |
| --- Day changed Mon Feb 14 2011 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, with the DBI, and statement handle that goes out of scope does automatically call finish, right? | 00:49 |
| @preaction | yes | 00:49 |
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| @khenn | scrottie, I have 0.14 | 17:02 |
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| +danny_mk | hello everyone | 18:05 |
| sbaur | Hi danny_mk | 18:06 |
| +perlDreamer | Hey, danny_mk | 18:06 |
| +danny_mk | is there a way to supress the noCache after the url when using the PageUrl macro? | 18:06 |
| +perlDreamer | turn it off in the admin console? | 18:06 |
| +danny_mk | that turns it off for the entire site, I sometimes get weird problems when I do that | 18:07 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI doesn't provide a way to turn it on and off selectively | 18:14 |
| +danny_mk | Darn, that is too bad | 18:15 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm sure one could be written | 18:15 |
| +danny_mk | yup, I am sure, however I have my hands full with some other stuff right now | 18:16 |
| +danny_mk | thank you for the answer | 18:16 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry, danny_mk, I wish I had a better one for you | 18:16 |
| +danny_mk | thank you for the help. | 18:16 |
| +danny_mk | 8 will take a while huh? | 18:17 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 18:17 |
| +danny_mk | really looking forward to that version | 18:17 |
| +perlDreamer | we keep beating on preaction to work faster | 18:17 |
| +perlDreamer | but he has become strong, and resists them | 18:17 |
| +danny_mk | I bet | 18:17 |
| +danny_mk | I really wish an ORM was strongly considered for that version | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | we do, too | 18:18 |
| +danny_mk | that reminds me, I have to do lots of work on the OpenId module | 18:19 |
| +danny_mk | my users are complaining about some issues when recovering passwords... | 18:19 |
| patspam_ | morning | 18:38 |
| +perlDreamer | howdy patspam | 18:39 |
| patspam_ | how's thing perlDreamer? | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | mega busy | 18:40 |
| patspam_ | good busy? | 18:40 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, just lots and lots of it :) | 18:41 |
| patspam_ | :) | 18:41 |
| +perlDreamer | how are things in New York? | 18:41 |
| +perlDreamer | No gas problems? | 18:41 |
| patspam_ | cold! | 18:41 |
| patspam_ | heh no | 18:41 |
| patspam_ | this weekend I will partake in my favourite new york hobby | 18:42 |
| patspam_ | moving apartments! | 18:42 |
| +perlDreamer | all right, time to start a pool | 18:42 |
| +perlDreamer | Length of time for patspam's next apartment occupation | 18:43 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll take 6 months, for $5 | 18:43 |
| patspam_ | heh this time it's easier, because I have a lease | 18:43 |
| patspam_ | we're moving around the corner from our current place | 18:43 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, that's not a bad move | 18:43 |
| patspam_ | yeah, super excited | 18:44 |
| patspam_ | new place has a separate study for Helen | 18:44 |
| patspam_ | and less cramped kitchen | 18:44 |
| +perlDreamer | nice. So it's bigger than the last one? | 18:44 |
| patspam_ | yeah, proper 2Br this time | 18:45 |
| patspam_ | == room for guests to stay! | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | was that a hint? | 18:46 |
| patspam_ | especially wG friends :) | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I hear they do have trains in New York | 18:46 |
| patspam_ | I think you need to try them out | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | a real vacation from home would be nice | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | although, the way kathy's program is going, she's not going to get a break for a while | 19:02 |
| +perlDreamer | they keep adding extra lectures and practicums | 19:02 |
| +bartjol | ah | 19:06 |
| +bartjol | well no NY plans for me in the near future | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | how about DE or FR plans? | 19:08 |
| +bartjol | nope | 19:08 |
| +bartjol | I'v been in belgium last week | 19:09 |
| +bartjol | saturday the 5th that is that | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | another sailing race? | 19:09 |
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| +bartjol | nope, have been to the fosdem | 19:18 |
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| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r016df9a / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add the Job Description column to the Job List template for the CS. Fixes bug #12045. - http://bit.ly/dRLhPd | 19:58 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rae14332 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add the Job Description column to the Job List template for the CS. Fixes bug #12045. - http://bit.ly/dX3Gzt | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: the CS getMailInterval is seriously broken | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | the code is only hooked up to minuteOfHour | 20:13 |
| @preaction | yes | 20:13 |
| +perlDreamer | but the form will let you enter in any valid WebGUI interval | 20:13 |
| +perlDreamer | do you see any problems with me changing this to limit it from once very minute, to once every hour? | 20:13 |
| scrottie0 | all mail must be broken. it's an unwritten rule. | 20:14 |
| @preaction | i don't see any problem, but i don't know | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil, sbaur: please wake up and read the backlog about the CS problem | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm going to make changes, and if you use the feature to send email to a CS, I'd appreciate your feedback | 20:19 |
| sbaur | I don't think i have a good enough understanding of what's being talked about and possibly changed | 20:20 |
| sbaur | and i don't have any of my CSs set to retrieve mail, only send mail out | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll reiterate the whole problem | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | in a CS, you can ask it to check an email account and import emails as posts | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | and it will check for new posts, replies and so on | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | the code is setup to take a duration in seconds, divide it by 60, and check for email that many times per hour | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | so interval/60 | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | however, the interval can be set to less than 60, which means it never checks | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | or it can be set to absurdly large values like daily, which ends up forcing the system to check way, way too often | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | so we need to limit what the user can enter | 20:23 |
| ckotil | perlDreamer: Im not using the CS. | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | and I think that a valid range would be from once per minute, to once per hour | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | no CS? | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | my my | 20:23 |
| ckotil | yeah :) | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | no forums? | 20:23 |
| ckotil | Ive never really spent much time using it. | 20:24 |
| ckotil | none. | 20:24 |
| ckotil | the idea has been tossed around, but... the need isnt really there yet. for my group to use it. | 20:24 |
| sbaur | that range sounds reasonable to me, but i could see where someone might think once per hour was still too often, especially for a low traffic sort of forum | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | well, from an application point of view, frequency == loading | 20:25 |
| ckotil | we're in the process of a CMS overhaul. so forums might be a new requirement. | 20:25 |
| +perlDreamer | so at anything below 1/hour kind of falls into the noise level | 20:25 |
| +perlDreamer | and if you want to hammer WebGUI but have very responsive lists, you set it to 1/minute | 20:25 |
| sbaur | and i never felt comfortable setting up the email linkage, so wound up just using an external archived mailman mailing list for the reply to message of stuff the CS sent out, and that worked fine for our particular low traffic use | 20:25 |
| sbaur | s/message/address/ | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll add in an every other hour option | 20:28 |
| scrottie0 | ah, hrm. | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | better dissent now, scrottie0, (or khenn or frodwith) | 20:37 |
| @frodwith | huh, wha? | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | soon the code will be written, and too late to dissent | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | if you have 5 minutes, would you backlog and read about the CS time interval for email snafu? | 20:37 |
| scrottie0 | sorry, that ah, hrm, was supposed to be a privmsg. | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | gotcha | 20:38 |
| scrottie0 | how embarassing. | 20:38 |
| scrottie0 | it's too Monday for me to argue with the voice of insanity. fix the stupid thing. | 20:38 |
| scrottie0 | I have some confetti I'll bust out. | 20:39 |
| scrottie0 | or maybe it's punch card chad. I'm not sure. | 20:39 |
| @frodwith | perldreamer: why don't you just make it an actual interval and let people set it to whatever they want? | 20:41 |
| +perlDreamer | well, Spectre only works on a minute timescale right now | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | so you can set it to something illegal | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | and, the effort of figuring out the interval 1237894123 | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | in terms of minuteOfHour, hourOfDay, dayOfWeek | 20:42 |
| @frodwith | oh | 20:43 |
| @frodwith | right | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | would suck | 20:43 |
| @frodwith | you could sort of | 20:43 |
| @khenn | perlDreamer, once per hour might be too slow for certain clients | 20:43 |
| @frodwith | round it | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | khenn, it would go as fast as every minute | 20:43 |
| @khenn | then I don't think there's a problem =) | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | really, I just want to stop using the interval form control since it lets you set ridiculous things in this context | 20:44 |
| @khenn | scrottie0: Do you recall how you fixed that PerlIO::eol problem? | 20:54 |
| scrottie0 | khenn: no. | 20:55 |
| @khenn | Doug pointed me to the WRE source, I guess I'll just have to try to build it | 20:55 |
| scrottie0 | khenn: do you have the latest PerlIO::eol module? | 20:55 |
| @khenn | yes | 20:55 |
| @khenn | 0.14 | 20:55 |
| @khenn | it simply won't install | 20:55 |
| scrottie0 | whaddyamean it won't install? | 20:55 |
| scrottie0 | I'm pretty sure that one way or another, I had to install it. | 20:55 |
| @khenn | haarg and preaction say it's due to the fact that I'm likely running a 32 bit Perl on a 64 bit machine | 20:55 |
| @khenn | yeah I installed it from cpan | 20:55 |
| scrottie0 | I've been abusing WREs with cpanm regularly | 20:55 |
| @khenn | I could try cpanm | 20:56 |
| @khenn | don't have that installed yet | 20:56 |
| @khenn | not sure if it will be any different though | 20:56 |
| scrottie0 | oh, right. then you need to set some CFLAGS... such export CFLAGS='-m32' | 20:56 |
| @khenn | same packages | 20:56 |
| @khenn | ? | 20:56 |
| scrottie0 | before perl Makefile.PL. and then if it isn't using ExtUtils::MakeMaker, which WORKS CORRECTLY and THAT'S WHY IT'S COMPLICATED (STOP TRYING TO REWRITE IT EVERYONE PLEASE OKAY THANKS) then that won't work. | 20:56 |
| Haarg | i don't think cpanm will make any difference | 20:56 |
| scrottie0 | then you have to edit the build materials and insert that arg at the strategic point. | 20:57 |
| @khenn | Haarg: I didn't think it would | 20:57 |
| scrottie0 | or edit the Makefile if it's MakeMaker and add it to whatever CFLAGS get called in there. | 20:57 |
| @khenn | heh | 20:57 |
| @khenn | alright | 20:57 |
| scrottie0 | but yeah, if you let perl build XS extensions for 64 bit when you have a 32 bit perl, it won't work. | 20:57 |
| @khenn | that's a little above my head for now, but I'll do a bit o research later | 20:58 |
| scrottie0 | export CFLAGS='-m32' | 20:58 |
| scrottie0 | right before `make` | 20:58 |
| scrottie0 | then do `make` | 20:58 |
| scrottie0 | erm. in order to that, you'd probably want to find cpanm's or CPAN(PLUS)?'s copy of PerlIO::eol, or else download the tar.gz from cpan.org, and do export CFLAGS='-m32' && perl Makefile.PL && make && make test && make install yourself | 21:00 |
| scrottie0 | sorry, CFLAGS before perl Makefile.PL. | 21:01 |
| @khenn | yeah I tried it via cpan | 21:01 |
| @khenn | but cpan is telling me it's already been made | 21:01 |
| @khenn | will have to do it manually later I guess | 21:01 |
| scrottie0 | perl Makefile.PL also lets you pass args... what is that... aha. perl Makefile.PL CCFLAGS='-m32' | 21:02 |
| scrottie0 | two Cs. | 21:02 |
| scrottie0 | again, that's assuming ExtUtils::MakerMaker. | 21:02 |
| @khenn | ok thanks | 21:03 |
| @khenn | I'll give it a shot | 21:03 |
| scrottie0 | well, shot it in the face when you do. | 21:05 |
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| scrottie0 | does anyone know offhand if it's a common problem with a common fix for a Mac to just completely lose the ability to normal/left click things, both on the touchpad and with a mouse plugged in? | 21:07 |
| scrottie0 | sorry for being off-topic. | 21:08 |
| @khenn | no | 21:08 |
| @khenn | that's not normal | 21:08 |
| sbaur | not normal at all | 21:09 |
| sbaur | outside chance it has something to do with accessibility options getting turned on by accident | 21:11 |
| * scrottie0 nods | 21:11 | |
| scrottie0 | I'll Google that. thanks for the suggestion. if I have to hold a key to left click, that would at least give me the power to change the setting. | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | tab keys and enter/space bar? | 21:12 |
| scrottie0 | with that and right clicking, you can't ever get a lot of dialogue boxes into focus. | 21:13 |
| scrottie0 | if I could right click, I could probably change the focus rules. | 21:13 |
| @khenn | control click doesn't do it? | 21:13 |
| scrottie0 | uh, dunno. let me power the thing back up. | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie0, it's a Mac. It's a diva. It's jealous of the other laptop in the house. | 21:15 |
| +perlDreamer | give it a Snickers bar and move on | 21:15 |
| scrottie0 | which other laptop? the R1, the Aero, the CF-27, the Wallstreet, the T3, the RD3D, or the P-1120? | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | no wonder it's jealous. You have a whole techno-harem! | 21:20 |
| scrottie0 | is control click supposed to be a right click? | 21:25 |
| scrottie0 | that doesn't get things into focus. | 21:25 |
| Haarg | usually two finger click is right click | 21:28 |
| @khenn | control click is supposed to right click | 21:28 |
| Haarg | and control click, yeah | 21:28 |
| @khenn | that works too | 21:28 |
| @khenn | or should | 21:28 |
| @khenn | methinks you need to make a trip to the apple store | 21:28 |
| Haarg | control f2 should get you into the menu | 21:30 |
| scrottie0 | often the right click menu doesn't bring things into focus, and if I can't bring some dialogues into focus, I can't proceed with the application. or with the powerdown, except by holding the power button down and non-gracefully powering off. and so on. | 21:30 |
| scrottie0 | yeah. I don't want to become one of those Mac users who makes monthly trips to the "Genuis Bar". having to beg my ISPs and my cell provider to keep their stuff working is about all I can handle. | 21:31 |
| +danny_mk | That happens to me when I enable the bluetooth wireless mouspad | 21:32 |
| scrottie0 | mmm. candid question here. how often do you guys with Macs find you have to reinstall the OS? this sure seems like a software problem. I managed to tell it to ignore the built-in Touchpad when an external mouse is present, tried two mice, and it still does it. | 21:32 |
| scrottie0 | interesting. | 21:32 |
| Haarg | i've never had to reinstall the OS to fix a problem. | 21:33 |
| Haarg | i've done it anyway just to wipe the machine, but i've never been forced to | 21:33 |
| sbaur | I've haven't had to since os 10.2 came out. Do you have the same problem if booted off of CD? If so, then it's hardware. | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie0, did you do anything to the box today (aside from turn it on)? Upgrade, install, configure, insert? | 21:35 |
| @preaction | restart didn't fix that problem? | 21:35 |
| scrottie0 | this wasn't today. this was a while ago. no, restart doesn't fix. it might have been after updates. I can't remember. | 21:36 |
| @preaction | yeah. i'd take it in | 21:37 |
| scrottie0 | sbaur, good question. | 21:41 |
| @khenn | I've never had to reinstall the os on my mac | 21:41 |
| @khenn | only problem I've ever had was that I had a hard drive go out on me | 21:41 |
| scrottie0 | Apple actually uses the (formerly) IBM "Deathstar" Deskstar drive in the Time Capsule. that blows my mind. | 21:44 |
| @preaction | apple takes cheap stuff and charges expensive prices. not news :p | 21:44 |
| @preaction | they take cheap RAM and charge $50 / stick for it | 21:44 |
| scrottie0 | bah. booted into the install disc, it has the same problem. I'm unclear how such a hardware failure could affect both the built-in touchpad and an external mouse with the built-in touchpad disabled. | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | can you reenable the touchpad? | 21:46 |
| @preaction | maybe it thinks the mouse is being held down? | 21:46 |
| scrottie0 | touchpad is only disabled while mouse is plugged in, automatically. | 21:46 |
| scrottie0 | tried two mice and fresh boots. | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | time for some lunch | 21:56 |
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| --- Day changed Tue Feb 15 2011 | ||
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| sbaur | This is probably a silly question, but... In a 7.6 dataform, how do I edit/remove the email fields? They do not show up when I view all data, but they do show up in the JSON that's in the database in the DataForm_entry table. (I need to report out some datafom data and it being there is cluttering stuff up) | 02:18 |
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| sbaur | it's a stumper. I'm going to try to get around it by making a lovely elaborate template toolkit template for the sql report. Luckily I translated the default report ages ago and have that as a base to work with. I 'll let you all know later in the week if I was successful or not | 02:31 |
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| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf3e340f / (4 files in 4 dirs): Rework the CS mail fetching interval so that it can't have crazy values like never, every second or yearly. Fixes bug #12043 - http://bit.ly/hHIiUt | 03:40 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6865fda / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/Spectre/Cron.t): Build a test to verify checkSegment. Addresses bug #12044. - http://bit.ly/hROztv | 03:40 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r820f285 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Rework the CS mail fetching interval so that it can't have crazy values like never, every second or yearly. Fixes bug #12043 - http://bit.ly/gmRGUB | 03:40 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r2de1a61 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/Spectre/Cron.t): Build a test to verify checkSegment. Addresses bug #12044. - http://bit.ly/hXo63A | 03:40 |
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| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r90dec24 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Prevent an empty AssetProxy macro from causing an infinite loop. Fixes bug #12046. Thanks to Trex for the patch! - http://bit.ly/hy80kr | 03:50 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * ree26bfc / (3 files in 3 dirs): Prevent an empty AssetProxy macro from causing an infinite loop. Fixes bug #12046. Thanks to Trex for the patch! - http://bit.ly/fxuRmM | 03:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: any objections to an early software release tonight? | 05:00 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r6d77fa9 / (29 files in 15 dirs): Ready for 7.9.22 release. - http://bit.ly/dPxbil | 05:03 |
| @preaction | nope | 05:03 |
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| +perlDreamer | you are a kind and benevolent free software dictator | 05:03 |
| @preaction | in fact, if you'll remember, i keep telling you to release it earlier, so you don't have to worry about it when there are better things to do, like hang out with the kids, or eat | 05:03 |
| +perlDreamer | well, ironically | 05:04 |
| +perlDreamer | there is a kid at the table throwing a food fit about eating | 05:04 |
| +perlDreamer | so a software release, with all its inherent danger and frustration is a welcome break | 05:04 |
| @preaction | ah, mais oui | 05:04 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe you'd like some? It's chicken parmesan alfredo | 05:06 |
| +perlDreamer | with french cut green beans | 05:06 |
| +perlDreamer | now, if I was serving the kid chorizo black bean soup, or oysters, or something odd I could see the fit | 05:07 |
| @preaction | i'd eat it, but i just got done eating scalloped potatos and ham | 05:07 |
| +perlDreamer | stoopid SF boogers | 05:08 |
| +perlDreamer | they won't reset my account | 05:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I mean, really, who is going to guess the old password is S00perUltr@MegaH0Oser, anyway? | 05:09 |
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| +Radix_ | http://www.bash.org/?244321 | 05:25 |
| +perlDreamer | all done | 06:38 |
| +perlDreamer | Radix_: we're at 7.9.22 and 7.10.10 this week | 06:38 |
| CIA-78 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb866584 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.23 development. - http://bit.ly/eK0AHX | 06:39 |
| -!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.9.22-stable | 7.10.10-beta | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com | 06:50 | |
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| xdanger | Why did you change the format of http://update.webgui.org/latest-version.txt and why isn't the newest version in http://update.webgui.org/7.x.x/ ? | 15:37 |
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| +bartjol | xdanger: I think it was an accident | 16:03 |
| +bartjol | it happened before and then it wasn't intentional | 16:03 |
| +bartjol | still, not very good practise | 16:04 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:35 |
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| +bartjol | aah, it is da perl lumberjack | 17:11 |
| * perlDreamer is a perl lumberjack, and I don't care | 17:12 | |
| +perlDreamer | He sleeps in late and combs his hair | 17:12 |
| +perlDreamer | apparently, he also forgets to type in the right command line options | 17:12 |
| +perlDreamer | and causes xdanger great distress | 17:12 |
| +bartjol | yesterday, someone even trusted me with a razor on his face... | 17:12 |
| +bartjol | :) | 17:13 |
| +bartjol | don't read the irc logs, because we totally bashed you | 17:16 |
| +bartjol | :P | 17:16 |
| +perlDreamer | you only say that to taunt me into reading them! | 17:16 |
| +bartjol | well, it wasn't that bad | 17:21 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:26 |
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| SDuensin | Hey, what are you Mac folks using for an IRC client these days? I've never found anything I'm completely happy with. :-( | 17:59 |
| xdanger | irssi ;) | 17:59 |
| @frodwith | I'm using adium beta | 17:59 |
| sbaur | Adium | 17:59 |
| @frodwith | connected through an irssi proxy | 17:59 |
| SDuensin | Adium is causing me headaches with ZNC and my iPad. | 17:59 |
| @frodwith | I used Colloquy for a while, wasn't too bad. | 18:00 |
| sbaur | Adium (non beta) has been good for me on my desktops | 18:00 |
| @khenn | I use Colloquy | 18:00 |
| xdanger | you could try a mac "gui" for irssi: http://www.sysctl.co.uk/#macirssi | 18:02 |
| xdanger | irssi has perl bindings =) | 18:03 |
| SDuensin | Mac GUI? Uh, ok. :-D | 18:04 |
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| @frodwith | hmmmm...Growl support with event-based notification control and selective per-channel notification. | 18:05 |
| @frodwith | that sounds awfully nice | 18:05 |
| * SDuensin loves growl. | 18:05 | |
| +perlDreamer | new IRC client? | 18:05 |
| @frodwith | dunno how new it is, but I've never tried it | 18:06 |
| xdanger | I have screen + irssi at a server and I have a ssh tunnel for notifications to growl | 18:06 |
| xdanger | it's older than the current mainline irssi | 18:06 |
| @frodwith | so, here's a question for y'all. I just built a CentOS vm and dropped the WRE on it. Running testEnvironment.pl to get my modules up to speed, it chokes on trying to install Image::Magick with a bunch of compile errors. Anyone had this experience? | 18:07 |
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| xvaara | just testing macirssi =) | 18:08 |
| +perlDreamer | that sounds like the libgomp problem | 18:08 |
| @frodwith | so, install libgomp from somewhere and all will be well? | 18:08 |
| +perlDreamer | that should do it. yum install libgomp | 18:09 |
| +perlDreamer | it should be in the install instructions | 18:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I also like to do yum install screen | 18:09 |
| +perlDreamer | and cpan App:::Ack | 18:09 |
| +perlDreamer | and wget http://haarg.org/wgd | 18:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'm pretty sure that the latest VM image on SF has all that done already | 18:10 |
| @frodwith | Package libgomp-4.4.0-6.el5.i386 already installed and latest version | 18:11 |
| @frodwith | hmm. | 18:11 |
| @frodwith | Oh, there's a vm image | 18:11 |
| @frodwith | ? | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but it's stripped down for people evaluating WebGUI | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | no graphics | 18:11 |
| @frodwith | all I want it for is a clean testing environment | 18:12 |
| +perlDreamer | then you should be good to go | 18:12 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a 7.8.24 on sf.net | 18:12 |
| +perlDreamer | it won't have git on it | 18:12 |
| @frodwith | oh hang on, it just doesn't want to install the latest Image::Magick | 18:17 |
| @frodwith | the one that's in there is fine | 18:17 |
| @frodwith | although it won't install Net::Twitter. | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | that's due to bad testing | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | the account that he setup for testing was shut down | 18:19 |
| +perlDreamer | so the tests fail | 18:19 |
| +perlDreamer | you have to force install it by hand | 18:19 |
| @frodwith | i kind of wish the wre's perl was configured such that you could easily restore the perl modules to a "clean" state (whatever came with the wre). Or is it, I wonder? | 18:23 |
| @frodwith | I seem to remember there being some sort of distinction in the perl config process between like... dist_perl and site_perl | 18:24 |
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| @frodwith | Mmph. macirsii's per-channel growl notification is not what I envisioned. | 18:49 |
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| @frodwith | Basically you set up your notification prefs, and then you can silence them for certain channels. Which is not at all what I want. | 18:49 |
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| @frodwith | I want to be able to say... show me any time anyone talks in #webgui, but only when I'm mentioned in #perl (etc) | 18:50 |
| @frodwith | which probably means I'd need to write a plugin or something | 18:51 |
| +perlDreamer | good thing you're a programmer | 18:52 |
| @frodwith | yeah the question is do I want it badly enough to figure out how to do it | 18:52 |
| @preaction | frodwith: i could certainly make the base WRE perl modules install to dist_perl, but usually all you need is to replace the prereqs directory | 19:19 |
| @preaction | xdanger: i recommend irssi proxy for when you're at your computer: http://irssi.org/documentation/proxy | 19:20 |
| @frodwith | preaction: It'd be nice if they went to dist_perl, for the next wre release maybe? I guess not a big priority. | 19:20 |
| Haarg | you mean vendor_perl? | 19:20 |
| @frodwith | maybe that's what I mean | 19:20 |
| Haarg | you make sense. that's pretty much the point of vendor_perl | 19:21 |
| Haarg | s/you/would/ | 19:21 |
| @preaction | yeah, i can certain try to make that happen | 19:21 |
| xdanger | preaction: I have proxy, but I only use it when connecting from a mobile phone. I'm just used to use terminal and ssh ;) | 19:21 |
| @preaction | it might be easier to get it to connect to growl if you have a local instance running and use the Desktop::Notify perl module or something | 19:22 |
| xdanger | I've cut back on my irc usage in the last few years | 19:22 |
| xdanger | sure, but I already have this setup so why fix if it isn't broken =) | 19:23 |
| @preaction | because we're geeks! we always need to do it better! | 19:23 |
| xdanger | you say that tunneling irssi notifications via ssh tunnel to a perl-server process to do growl notifications isn't geeky ? | 19:24 |
| xdanger | and using autossh to keep the connection open even if I jump from wifi to 3g =) | 19:24 |
| @preaction | no, i'm saying it isn't better. seems fragile to me | 19:24 |
| xdanger | Id say its more robust than irc-connection | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | if we use vendor_perl, then it might make it easier someday to drop the WRE specific perl, as well | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | if we don't need modperl, then we likely don't need to custom compile a perl anymore either | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | and that makes our system easier for the distro packagers. | 19:26 |
| xdanger | I just can't wait for ditching modperl for plack =) | 19:27 |
| Haarg | even with mod_perl there's no reason we need our own perl | 19:27 |
| Haarg | except to force a specific perl version | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I read most of the perl delta files as they come out, and I haven't seen anything yet that would prevent us from using a newer perl | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | but I may have missed stuff, too | 19:28 |
| Haarg | in the past i think it was more to force an up to date perl | 19:28 |
| Haarg | still is really | 19:29 |
| Haarg | webgui 8 needs 5.10, and there are tons of systems that isn't available with system packages | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, but when we compile our own perl, then we also have to live with problems like the module dependency thing that pops up with CHI/Moose/Log::Dispatch etc | 19:30 |
| xdanger | has anyone tested this with webgui 9.x: http://search.cpan.org/~pmakholm/Plack-App-WrapApacheReq-0.01/lib/Plack/App/WrapApacheReq.pm | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | xdanger, patspam_ did a project called PlebGUI, which is similar to that but specific to WebGUI | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | you can find details of it on his blog at www.patspam.org | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | or com | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | it's slow, but it works | 19:31 |
| Haarg | perlDreamer, re: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11795 | 19:31 |
| xdanger | that I know | 19:32 |
| Haarg | did a presentation on character encoding yesterday. when looking into it, found that LWP got fixed at some point. | 19:32 |
| Haarg | in earlier versions, it decoded things badly, thus needing that utf8::downgrade hack | 19:32 |
| Haarg | modern versions don't have the problem | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | as a pet owner, "fixed" has variable meanings, so I'm glad you detailed that | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | what version do we need to have to be beyond that point? | 19:33 |
| Haarg | 5.828 fixed it | 19:33 |
| Haarg | which is newer than what the wre has of course | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | that can be fixed | 19:35 |
| +perlDreamer | I have permission to make "text-only" releases of the WRE at need | 19:35 |
| +perlDreamer | to fix problems in scripts | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | so I don't see why putting a new LWP into the WRE without recompiling everything wouldn't be allowed | 19:36 |
| Haarg | i was rather confused when i started looking at it because i knew LWP had been doing the wrong thing, but couldn't see how it would. then i remembered that i use up to date modules. | 19:39 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, until we repeat the great JSON 1.x/2.x API fiasco | 19:40 |
| scrottie0 | dammit, I keep wishing that I had learned to use Hyperscope. | 19:49 |
| @preaction | does anyone else here even like programming in JS? | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | after reading "JavaScript, the Good Parts", I like JS | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't like using it in a browser | 19:51 |
| scrottie0 | when I'm not going stupid dynamic Web forms, yeah. | 19:51 |
| scrottie0 | doing | 19:51 |
| @preaction | but then you're doing node.js or something, which you may as well be writing Perl | 19:52 |
| scrottie0 | I was in the process of retooling to be an ActionScript developer before I stepped in WebGUI. | 19:52 |
| @preaction | seriously? | 19:52 |
| scrottie0 | seriously. | 19:52 |
| @preaction | just for the job opportunities? or did you actually like it? | 19:52 |
| scrottie0 | most guys who do ActionScript are terrible and they make lots of money. usually when you're terrible and make lots of money, you have to use Microsoft stuff. | 19:53 |
| scrottie0 | well, I kinda got a taste of it at the previous gig, writing games. | 19:53 |
| @preaction | i mean, i like it, except for its java affectations (class-based doesn't have to mean java-like), but it doesn't seem like your cuppa ;) | 19:53 |
| scrottie0 | the API pre 10 is inconsistent and full of terrible surprises, but programming Flash I found to be surprisingly fun. | 19:53 |
| scrottie0 | I went and found a bunch of AtariBASIC and started portered it ;) | 19:54 |
| scrottie0 | porting | 19:54 |
| scrottie0 | lots of great flashbacks there | 19:54 |
| @preaction | yeah, AS3 really turned over a new leaf, and the flash vm's new capabilities with regards to C linking is awesome | 19:54 |
| scrottie0 | I've been trying to get off of the Perl sinking ship for *years* | 19:54 |
| @preaction | well, listing to port definitely | 19:54 |
| scrottie0 | linking to C? no kidding? nice! | 19:55 |
| @preaction | yeah, they took the OSS Doom and compiled it to run in the flash vm in a browser plugin | 19:55 |
| @preaction | works a little wonkey due to no right-click, but AIR doesn't have that problem | 19:55 |
| scrottie0 | dammit, that's what I should be playing with... wiring that up to the MUD. | 19:55 |
| @preaction | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/alchemy/ <- alchemy, that's it | 19:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | I think we need warnings for WebGUI like these: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/02/sparkfuns-funny-take-on-obligatory-product-safety-warnings.html | 20:21 |
| @preaction | that it's called the "Sparkfun Heaterizer XL3000" is enough for me | 20:25 |
| @preaction | i'll heaterize it! i'll heaterize the crap outta it! | 20:25 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what I need, a good session with the heaterizer to work out those sore muscles | 20:26 |
| scrottie0 | 250? bah. a "moderate" oven is 350. brownies bake at 350-375. | 20:27 |
| @preaction | might be why you shouldn't heat food with it | 20:27 |
| +perlDreamer | it's only for spot heating | 20:27 |
| scrottie0 | speaking of food vs electronics, I know people who do solder reflow for surface mount electronics with a bloody toaster oven. | 20:28 |
| @preaction | wow | 20:29 |
| ckotil | 250C | 20:29 |
| ckotil | dunno , supposedlly the Red Ring of Death xbox 360's can be fixed by running them for a long time and get really hot so the soldier reflows | 20:30 |
| ckotil | i tried it with mine a couple years ago. Wrapped it in a town, and left it on for a whole day. It still works to this day. | 20:31 |
| ckotil | That was after returning two to microsft. Ive had bad luck with that console. meanwhile my day1 xbox1 is still running strong. | 20:31 |
| scrottie0 | oh. | 20:32 |
| ckotil | err, s/town/towl | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | ckotil, before you corrected that, I had all kinds of new respect for you :) | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I mean, the NOC stuff is pretty cool, but wrapping stuff in a town! You had me seriously geeking out there. | 20:33 |
| ckotil | i would have left it for you, but i dont know how I could have explained wrapping the 360 in a town. | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | towns are very insulating | 20:34 |
| @preaction | yeah, the original xbox was that big, but not a 360 | 20:34 |
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| @frodwith | Adium has a plugin that lets you pipe events through any external program, and gives you the chat name, the sender nick, and the message. So my quest is complete. | 20:47 |
| @preaction | yay! | 20:48 |
| @frodwith | It's called Pipe Event, if anyone's interested | 20:49 |
| @frodwith | that plus this: http://gist.github.com/829906 | 20:50 |
| @preaction | i don't think you're allowed to do that | 20:50 |
| @frodwith | do what? | 20:50 |
| @preaction | that! | 20:51 |
| @frodwith | *squint* | 20:51 |
| @frodwith | why amn't I? | 20:51 |
| plainhao | frodwith is allowed to do anything he wants | 21:05 |
| @preaction | who am i to say what i can and cannot do? | 21:06 |
| @preaction | that's it! i'm putting myself on notice! | 21:06 |
| plainhao | is frodwith a daddy now? | 21:06 |
| @frodwith | no hao.... we had a miscarriage in december | 21:09 |
| plainhao | i'm sorry | 21:09 |
| @frodwith | me too :-/ | 21:12 |
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| @khenn | I miss Perl =( | 22:23 |
| plainhao | i miss khenn | 22:29 |
| @khenn | heh | 22:29 |
| @frodwith | plainhao: You're clearly mad. | 22:29 |
| @khenn | clearly | 22:29 |
| plainhao | mad with love | 22:30 |
| plainhao | khenn, have you tried scala? | 22:32 |
| @khenn | no I have not | 22:33 |
| @khenn | is that what you are up to lately? | 22:34 |
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| plainhao | no, i attended (and filmed) a talk on scala | 22:34 |
| plainhao | it compiles down to jvm | 22:35 |
| plainhao | and can use java classes | 22:35 |
| @frodwith | *and produce java classes, I think | 22:35 |
| @frodwith | see also clojure | 22:35 |
| plainhao | well, there's a catch there | 22:35 |
| @khenn | it looks like the bastard child of VB and Java | 22:35 |
| @frodwith | khenn: looks can be decieving | 22:35 |
| plainhao | java doesn't have certain things, like first class functions | 22:36 |
| @frodwith | it's an FP thing | 22:36 |
| plainhao | so if you plan on using scala objects from java, you need to plan accordingly | 22:36 |
| @khenn | hmm so it compiles to bytecode eh? | 22:37 |
| plainhao | scala is functional-object-oriented :) | 22:37 |
| @khenn | interesting | 22:37 |
| @frodwith | lots of things do that these days | 22:37 |
| plainhao | yeah, clojure looks interesting too | 22:37 |
| plainhao | too distracted by all these new toys lately | 22:37 |
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| sbaur | I need some template toolkit help. I'm not getting something basic. I am using TT to iterate over the columns_loop in DataForm. I want to do something when I get to the data_entry column. I can't figure out how to write the comparison so it works. | 01:25 |
| sbaur | my first stab at it was [% IF ( [% column_name%] = "data_entry" ) %] but that complains about an unexpected token (%) | 01:25 |
| @preaction | you don't need the inner [% %], just column_name | 01:26 |
| Haarg | i think you'll also want == instead of = | 01:28 |
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| sbaur | oh, yeah, i did figure out the == | 01:29 |
| sbaur | ok, so then i'm running into a string comparison issue. Have to figure out what whitespace is coming back with data_entry | 01:30 |
| @preaction | how is your loop constructed? | 01:32 |
| sbaur | just pasted it into http://webgui.pastebin.com/regWW4Z7 | 01:33 |
| @preaction | i think you want something more like: [% FOREACH col IN columns_loop %] and then [% IF col.column_name == "data_entry" %] | 01:34 |
| sbaur | as soon as i change it to [% FOREACH col IN columns_loop %] it skips the loop completely | 01:35 |
| @preaction | nm then | 01:35 |
| sbaur | <- is an idiot | 01:41 |
| sbaur | I saw entryData and wrote it as data_entry, probably because I was looking at table names earlier | 01:42 |
| sbaur | d'oh | 01:42 |
| sbaur | thank you for your help | 01:42 |
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| xdanger | does anyone know why ins and del htmltags don't render in some browsers? | 18:28 |
| xdanger | I did a diff for webgui revisions, but it doesn't render in some browsers | 18:31 |
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| @frodwith | is there an option to testEnvironment.pl to install optional modules? | 18:51 |
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| @scrottie | perl -MAcme::Intraweb testEnvironment.pl | 18:53 |
| @frodwith | ah ho, ah he, ah ha ha ha | 18:53 |
| xdanger | Is there any interest in WebGUI::Operation::Diff that I made out there? it's kinda clunky, but does something =) | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | what does it do, xdanger? | 18:55 |
| xdanger | it has function: www_diffAssetRevisions | 18:55 |
| xdanger | =) | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | what's the clunky part of it? | 18:55 |
| xdanger | Text::WordDiff | 18:56 |
| xdanger | I't not for html, so it does a diff and render the html encoded in a <pre> tag | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | it also says that it work with Oriental languages | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | so it's better off as a plugin | 18:57 |
| xdanger | http://mentalhouse.fi/stuff/webgui/op-diff.png | 19:01 |
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| @scrottie | that looks really handy. | 19:02 |
| @frodwith | yes it does | 19:02 |
| +perlDreamer | xdanger, if you make it a Content handler, it's easier to configure | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | since you don't have to add code to Operation.pm | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | just config file stuff | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | and all that can be automated with an install script | 19:09 |
| xdanger | ok | 19:09 |
| @frodwith | what does it working with Oriental languages have to do with it being better off as a plugin? | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | everything that goes into WebGui has to be fully i18n-able | 19:09 |
| xdanger | I'll take a look at it this night | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and Text::WordDiff says it doesn't work well with Oriental languages | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | that's from a skim of the module | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | which bums me out | 19:10 |
| @frodwith | oh | 19:10 |
| xdanger | it's just regexp | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | since I'd add it in now otherwise, if preaction approved | 19:10 |
| @frodwith | you left out a doesn't | 19:10 |
| @frodwith | i was confused | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | must need some coffee | 19:10 |
| @frodwith | I understand now | 19:10 |
| @frodwith | something based on Text::Diff though | 19:11 |
| xdanger | if there is a better diff library (or a small program) I'd like to know =) | 19:11 |
| @frodwith | line-oriented | 19:11 |
| @frodwith | would be almost as handy | 19:11 |
| xdanger | I't based on that | 19:11 |
| xdanger | It's | 19:12 |
| xdanger | but now to training --> | 19:12 |
| @frodwith | right, but a line-oriented diff wouldn't have the same i18n limitations | 19:12 |
| @frodwith | and we could put it in core ^^ | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | and a core level diff function for assets would rock! | 19:12 |
| @frodwith | yesindeedy. I find myself copy-and-pasting to files and running plain-old-unix-diff on assets from time to time | 19:13 |
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| sbaur | I find myself doing that with templates an awful lot of the time | 19:14 |
| +perlDreamer | frodwith, with wgd you can speed that up a bit, but it's still clunky | 19:14 |
| +perlDreamer | wgd export url | 19:15 |
| @frodwith | *nod* | 19:15 |
| @frodwith | actually that wouldn't make a bad wgd plugin either. wgd diff asset_specifier, menu: select two revisions. Bam. | 19:15 |
| @frodwith | but it'd be cooler with a web interface. | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | and more accessible to users | 19:16 |
| @frodwith | s/cooler/more accessible to users/ | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I think it'd be nice if we did the same amount of diff though, as the command-line version | 19:17 |
| @frodwith | how d'you mean? | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | what changed between these? style templates, users, groups, storages, etc | 19:17 |
| @frodwith | oh | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | you get all of that with the wgd/diff | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | but we can add that later | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | right now, content/templates is most useful | 19:17 |
| @frodwith | actually that's a wonderful idea | 19:17 |
| @frodwith | the other wouldn't be hard to do, you just need a canonical dump | 19:18 |
| @frodwith | to diff | 19:18 |
| @frodwith | which would be what, something like YAML::Dump($asset->get) | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, something like that | 19:19 |
| +perlDreamer | I was thinking cmp_deeply | 19:19 |
| +perlDreamer | and skip the serialize step altogether | 19:19 |
| @frodwith | that wouldn't diff as nicely though | 19:19 |
| @frodwith | i mean, for the big content sections | 19:19 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, I see what you mean | 19:19 |
| @scrottie | xdanger, if you want to give me a .diff, I'll beta test it for you >=) | 19:20 |
| @frodwith | if this was going into core | 19:23 |
| @frodwith | how about adding it to Asset.pm, rather than as a content handler | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | that's cool with me, but preaction would need to give the final nod | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | it doesn't have to be templated | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | but output needs i18n | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and a few simple tests for diff | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | not the UI level, but the content it provides | 19:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | so it'd be best if there was a www_ method | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and a content generation method | 19:25 |
| @scrottie | what's wrong with it being a content handler? Asset is cluttered. | 19:25 |
| @frodwith | because it's intrinsically an asset function | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 19:25 |
| @scrottie | aren't lots of other content handlers? assetManager comes to mind =P | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | assetManager is a manager for assets | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | and it calls methods from the assets | 19:26 |
| @scrottie | it makes sense to me to bust out the core APIs from the tools (and their UIs) that operate on them. | 19:26 |
| @frodwith | I think an argument could be made for the asset manager to be functions on the Asset class. | 19:27 |
| @scrottie | the fact that some of the core UI stuff is commingled in doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea to try to keep them apart. | 19:27 |
| @scrottie | ugh. | 19:27 |
| @frodwith | I mean, I agree with what you're saying scrottie | 19:28 |
| @frodwith | but that's not the convention in the WebGUI code base. | 19:28 |
| @frodwith | insofar as there is a convention. | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a convention! | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | We got a file, and everthing goes in it! | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | so, aside from huge, messy unmaintainable files, what's not to like about that? | 19:29 |
| @frodwith | I guess if we wanted to be Real Conventional, we'd make an AssetDiff.pm with package WebGUI::Asset at the top | 19:29 |
| @frodwith | largeness of files isn't what makes for unmaintainability | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, please don't do that | 19:30 |
| @frodwith | the problem is... not enough separation of concerns | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | it's hard enough for the POD checker as it is | 19:30 |
| @frodwith | tools for operating on assets over --> | 19:30 |
| @frodwith | core asset logic over <---- | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | that sounds awesome | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | even if only the www methods were pulled out, it would be better | 19:31 |
| @frodwith | right, but we're not refactoring the whole codebase, so we might as well be consistent | 19:31 |
| @scrottie | there's no need to refactor this plugin. it's fine as it is. don't de-factor it. | 19:31 |
| @frodwith | the need is that it's not consistent with the rest of core. | 19:32 |
| @preaction | it shouldn't go in Asset in 8. it would be an AssetHelper | 19:32 |
| @preaction | we're trying to get rid of the Asset has everything stuff | 19:32 |
| @frodwith | wholeheartedly agree. | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | so, does it go into 7.10, or 8, or both? | 19:33 |
| @frodwith | bofe | 19:33 |
| @scrottie | bloathe! | 19:33 |
| @frodwith | who is xdanger In Real Life? | 19:34 |
| @preaction | xdanger: why not String::Diff instead of Text::WordDiff? | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | xdanger is Jukka | 19:35 |
| +perlDreamer | he also keeps all of our IRC logs for us at mentalhouse.net | 19:35 |
| +perlDreamer | very nice fellow, and a good hacker | 19:35 |
| @preaction | and if you're interested, i have a branch of WebGUI with tests written for an asset diff function, if you want to take a peek | 19:35 |
| @frodwith | don't think I've met him though. Pity. | 19:35 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, I don't think he's made a WUC yet | 19:36 |
| @frodwith | what part of the world is he from? | 19:36 |
| @frodwith | sounds like europe | 19:36 |
| @frodwith | finnish maybe | 19:36 |
| @preaction | ah, looks like i had planned it being part of Operation::VersionTag | 19:38 |
| @preaction | well, one part of it | 19:38 |
| @preaction | then the other part would be in asset, but doesn't matter where that is | 19:39 |
| @frodwith | ah, like, "what did this version tag do" | 19:39 |
| @frodwith | I think a similar inteface in both places for 8 | 19:39 |
| @frodwith | and just on asset for 7.10 | 19:39 |
| @preaction | https://github.com/preaction/webgui/tree/diff | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | good call, frodwith, he's in Finland | 19:41 |
| @frodwith | anyone else getting test failures on master for t/Workflow/Activity/CalendarUpdateFeeds.t? | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | all modules installed? | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | because it ran clean for last week's release | 19:44 |
| @frodwith | as near as I can tell. | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, it's not leap year | 19:45 |
| +perlDreamer | what's the failure? | 19:45 |
| @frodwith | https://gist.github.com/832235 | 19:47 |
| @frodwith | this might just be my branch that's failing though | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll check it vs master | 19:48 |
| @frodwith | mm, fails on master for me too, on a different machine | 19:49 |
| +perlDreamer | running clean on my source install/master | 19:50 |
| @frodwith | my setups are mac os/wre something and centos 5.5 wre/latest | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll check my CentOS VM | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | it's also clean on the VM | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | which may mean module version differences, or something else | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | is the webgui.log file clean | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, while the VM's up, might as well run a regression | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | the least we can do is make that test more failure friendly | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | no sense running all the inside tests if we didn't get an event | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I wish there was a SKIP_REST function for Test::More | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | and why isn't there a done_skipping function, like done_testing? | 20:00 |
| +perlDreamer | and why don't I write patches instead of griping about stuff like this? | 20:00 |
| +perlDreamer | :) | 20:00 |
| @frodwith | :) | 20:00 |
| scrottie0 | :)~ | 20:00 |
| @frodwith | does TAP support "skip the rest of the tests"? | 20:00 |
| +perlDreamer | good question. I would guess not | 20:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | but if done_testing can be mode to work... ? | 20:01 |
| scrottie0 | if memory serves, you have to generate output for the tests being skipped. so you have to know which tests you're skipping, or how many there are at least. | 20:01 |
| @frodwith | i think dying is the right thing | 20:01 |
| @frodwith | well, done_testing just outputs a plan at the end | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | sometimes in interferes with test cleanup | 20:02 |
| @frodwith | then if you don't see a plan, that's an error | 20:02 |
| scrottie0 | there's some logic in there about the highest numbered test it has seen. | 20:02 |
| @frodwith | perldreamer, how come this test requires --live to be on? | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | uh, it talks to a WebGUI site instance to suck ICAL data out of it? | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | so it does a complete test from end to end | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | no mockery | 20:04 |
| @frodwith | ah i see | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | this all gets easier in 8, with WebGUI::Test::Mechanize, built on top of WWW::Mech::Plack | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | WEBGUI_LIVE goes away completely | 20:05 |
| @frodwith | yeah, much easier to fake requests | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | since it will hot up a server for us on command | 20:05 |
| @frodwith | one of the very cool things about psgi is the test-friendliness | 20:06 |
| @frodwith | so what seems to be happening, is newEvents comes back with nothing in it | 20:06 |
| @frodwith | perlDreamer: perl -MData::ICal -e 'print $Data::ICal::VERSION' | 20:11 |
| @frodwith | I've got 0.16 | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | me, too | 20:11 |
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| @frodwith | hmm, nothing funny in the logs. | 20:13 |
| +perlDreamer | hang on, in the VM I was on the wrong branch | 20:14 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, I still get a test failure, but it's not due to not getting an event | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a wrapping issue in the returned data | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | what I'm seeing might be a problem with Text::vFile::asData | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | hm it's not that | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | no, I forgot to restart apache when I switched branches | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | grrr | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, much better | 20:32 |
| @frodwith | no test failures now, or getting the same one I am? | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | now I have no test failures at all for that test | 20:33 |
| @frodwith | huh. | 20:33 |
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| @frodwith | it's failing because i'm not listening on port 80 | 20:47 |
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| +perlDreamer | WRE setup problem? | 20:51 |
| @frodwith | maybe... | 20:51 |
| @frodwith | adding webServerPort : 8080 to the config file fixes it | 20:52 |
| @frodwith | okay, that's that then :) | 20:53 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: is the AssetManager search interface supposed to be the same as the regular interface with a YUI DataForm and so on? | 20:57 |
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| plainhao | http://trends.builtwith.com/cms | 21:06 |
| +perlDreamer | now that's odd | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | searching for WebGUI on that site brings up "Visual WebGUI" | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, there is no WebGUI site in the top 10,000 sites on the internet perhaps? | 21:08 |
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| mdhoerr | Installed CentOS vmdk | 21:26 |
| mdhoerr | Now I'm trying to download the latest webgui repo | 21:26 |
| mdhoerr | From /data/ I run | 21:27 |
| mdhoerr | git clone https://github.com/plainblack/webgui.git | 21:27 |
| mdhoerr | I get Cloning into webgui ... | 21:28 |
| mdhoerr | fatal: Unable to find remote helper for 'https' | 21:28 |
| mdhoerr | Help? | 21:29 |
| @frodwith | your git is compiled without http support | 21:29 |
| mdhoerr | how do I compile with http support? | 21:29 |
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| @frodwith | sudo yum install curl-devel.i386, go to git src, ./configure, make, sudo make install | 21:30 |
| mdhoerr | hmm, I installed curl but not curl-devel.i386 | 21:30 |
| @frodwith | right, git can't link against libcurl without the headers. | 21:31 |
| mdhoerr | I get curl-devel-7.15.5-9.e15.i386 already installed and latest version Nothing to do | 21:32 |
| @frodwith | go recompile/reinstall git then | 21:33 |
| mdhoerr | ok | 21:33 |
| mdhoerr | Recompiled and reinstalled. Still get the same error. Does it have something to do with https vs http? | 21:40 |
| @frodwith | I don't think so. libcurl can handle both. | 21:41 |
| @frodwith | what's `which git` give you? | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | probably missing openssl support in the VM? | 21:41 |
| mdhoerr | which git gives me /data/wre/prereqs/bin/git | 21:42 |
| mdhoerr | I think I have two versions of git | 21:42 |
| @frodwith | yeah, is that where you installed it? | 21:42 |
| @frodwith | like, ./configure --prefix=/data/wre/prereqs | 21:43 |
| @frodwith | if it's not, try /usr/local/bin/git clone (etc) | 21:43 |
| mdhoerr | yes | 21:43 |
| @frodwith | oh it is | 21:43 |
| @frodwith | hm. | 21:43 |
| mdhoerr | I was going to say no, but that is the ./configure I used | 21:43 |
| mdhoerr | Is there a command to show me all locations of git on my system? | 21:45 |
| mdhoerr | OpenSSl support on my VM? How do I check for that? | 21:45 |
| @frodwith | which git shows you the one you get when you type 'git' | 21:46 |
| @frodwith | so, it doesn't matter if you have other ones | 21:46 |
| @frodwith | centos's curl package should ahve open ssl support | 21:46 |
| @frodwith | but, simple test, try to clone an http git repo | 21:46 |
| mdhoerr | which openssl gives me /data/wre/prereqs/bin/openssl | 21:46 |
| mdhoerr | Can I do the webgui line with http instead of https? | 21:47 |
| @khenn | what is the difference between cpan and cpanm? | 21:47 |
| @khenn | is cpanm really a better version? | 21:47 |
| @frodwith | khenn: they're completely different codebases. | 21:47 |
| @khenn | yeah but the do the same thing right? | 21:48 |
| @frodwith | khenn: no. cpanm does a lot less. | 21:48 |
| @khenn | yeah it seems cpanm was written for linode | 21:48 |
| mdhoerr | No, I get the same fatal error with http. | 21:48 |
| @frodwith | the idea is it's a bunch simpler, asks you a lot fewer questions, and works for 90% of the things you would use CPAN.pm for | 21:49 |
| @frodwith | mdhoerr: can you nopaste the output of your ./configure invocation? | 21:49 |
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| mdhoerr | I'm sorry. What does that mean? nopaste? | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | mdhoerr, I still think that you've exhausted the idea of using the WebGUI vm for doing dev, and should do a new VM with CentOS 5.5 | 21:52 |
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| @frodwith | mdhoerr: pastebin.com, pastie.com, gist.github.com, something like that. | 21:53 |
| @frodwith | pastie.org rather. com is parked. | 21:53 |
| mdhoerr | OK. I guess I should used CentOS 5.5 | 21:54 |
| @frodwith | I don't think which centos you have is the problem, but it couldn't hurt. | 21:55 |
| CIA-25 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r64eafc6 / t/Workflow/Activity/CalendarUpdateFeeds.t : Skip testing the anniversay event if we didn't get one in the CalendarUpdateFeeds test. - http://bit.ly/gCHurp | 21:57 |
| CIA-25 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rcfba2e9 / t/Workflow/Activity/CalendarUpdateFeeds.t : Skip testing the anniversay event if we didn't get one in the CalendarUpdateFeeds test. - http://bit.ly/e9mz4e | 21:57 |
| xdanger | frodwith: yes, I'm from could Finland =) | 21:57 |
| mdhoerr | I'm not really good with command line yet. To use nopaste, you'd have to give the whole command line. | 21:58 |
| xdanger | -25.1 °C and I was at karate practice by bicycle =) | 21:58 |
| @frodwith | mdhoerr: I mean, copy the output of the command and slap it into one of those paste services, then paste us the resulting url | 21:59 |
| @frodwith | common IRC convention so that you don't clutter the room with the paste | 21:59 |
| @frodwith | lol, putting the port in the config file makes session/url.t fail | 22:02 |
| @frodwith | oh boy | 22:02 |
| xdanger | preaction: I just searched for diff html and found Text::WordDiff::HTML, I'll have a look at String::Diff... do you have a plan for the diff function? | 22:04 |
| @preaction | xdanger: check the commits in the https://github.com/preaction/webgui/commits/diff repo. there are a couple Asset API methods, one VersionTag API method, and two www_ pages | 22:05 |
| CIA-25 | webgui: Paul Driver master * radd2553 / t/Session/Url.t : ignore webServerPort in session/url.t - http://bit.ly/hQnpxR | 22:11 |
| +perlDreamer | what's the name of that non-free HTML to PDF converter that used to have a WebGUI plugin? | 22:18 |
| @khenn | preaction: Will WebGUI run under Perl 5.12? I assume it will | 22:18 |
| @preaction | maybe, probably | 22:18 |
| @khenn | sorta what I figured | 22:18 |
| @khenn | gonna find out soon! | 22:18 |
| Haarg | almost certainly | 22:25 |
| +perlDreamer | it's htmldoc | 22:25 |
| Haarg | mdhoerr, you could probably clone using the git: url instead of https | 22:26 |
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| @khenn | meh, can't get Image::Magick to install for some reason. Punting ... | 22:44 |
| @scrottie | I think I'm doing it but I'm not sure. | 22:53 |
| @scrottie | and I think I might have punted on that too. | 22:53 |
| @frodwith | revisiting versioned asset metadata: https://github.com/frodwith/webgui/commit/ae3e49d62220bd43ea7d3aa723d1e23c1004fbb3 | 22:54 |
| @frodwith | passes all tests with --live on on centos 5.5 with a clean wre install | 22:54 |
| @frodwith | perlDreamer, preaction: I did my best to address the concerns you brought up, thoughts? | 22:55 |
| @preaction | looks good to me, though is ->toHtml the best idea in getMetaDataAsFormFields? it's for use in the template right? | 22:57 |
| @frodwith | yeah, the idea is that someone building a custom edit form for something can just drop in [% form_fields.foobar %] | 22:58 |
| @preaction | but then, i'm not thinking 7.x, i'm thinking 8.x where we have a better form system. so most likely toHtml is correct for 7.x | 22:58 |
| @preaction | so yep, looks great | 22:59 |
| @preaction | exactly what i wanted. we can start phasing out userDefinedField and phasing this in | 22:59 |
| @frodwith | something did occur to me earlier | 23:02 |
| @frodwith | $client tends to build assets on one site and use packages to deploy them to a bunch of other sites | 23:02 |
| @frodwith | and metadata isn't included (I don't think) in packages | 23:02 |
| @preaction | that could certainly be added | 23:03 |
| @preaction | but i think they'd really be better served with a more robust sync method, i've written notes on one under the heading WebGUI Network | 23:03 |
| @frodwith | problem is, different sites have different metadata fields | 23:03 |
| @preaction | Network would sync that | 23:04 |
| @frodwith | link? | 23:04 |
| @preaction | https://gist.github.com/f52e927f5c31659d06bc | 23:04 |
| @preaction | yay for wrapping.... | 23:05 |
| @frodwith | nothing Readability can't fix | 23:05 |
| @preaction | TL;DR - one site creates a Network, owns the network and controls it. Other sites can then use the Network as the owner allows, moving changes in content, users, settings, workflow, and etc... between sites | 23:06 |
| @preaction | it's mostly geared to replace/extend packages, but in my head it's for users, groups, settings, and everything else too | 23:07 |
| @frodwith | this is something you're planning for 8, or 9, or what/ | 23:08 |
| @preaction | nope | 23:08 |
| @preaction | just ideas | 23:08 |
| @preaction | if i can get funding, they could become reality, but i remember WebGUI Filesystem | 23:09 |
| @frodwith | it does sound like something $client would be interested in. | 23:09 |
| @preaction | they inspired most of it | 23:09 |
| @preaction | they kept telling me how they did things, and i was horrified :p | 23:10 |
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| ckotil | WGFS would be great. ive got users begging for some dropbox support | 23:58 |
| --- Day changed Fri Feb 18 2011 | ||
| ckotil | or box.net | 00:00 |
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| @preaction | anyone think it would be a bad thing for the Address Book to continually set the last-used address as the Default Address, pulled to auto-populate the next address form? | 05:53 |
| @preaction | also, would it be better to have a WebGUI::Form::Address control instead of the individual homeAddress, homeCity, homeState, homeZip profile fields? | 06:00 |
| @preaction | Form::Address being a single WebGUI::Shop::Address item, or something | 06:01 |
| @preaction | no, i don't like that. make Profile reliant on Shop | 06:01 |
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| xdanger | preaction: I'd like to have the ability to disable showing the homeState field, since it's not needed in many coutries | 07:54 |
| @preaction | you can delete that field | 08:20 |
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| SDuensin | FrIdAy! | 16:33 |
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| sbaur | hey preaction and perlDreamer, did you see the bounces from server39 when it tried to send to monitors@pb? | 18:03 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 18:03 |
| +perlDreamer | are you sending SPAM from your server? | 18:03 |
| sbaur | do you consider logwatches to be spam? | 18:03 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 18:04 |
| sbaur | a lot of students sign up with bogus/wrong email addresses, so we do get a fair amount of bounces of our welcome message, and the from address is certainly used by others to send spam | 18:05 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what I guessed happened | 18:05 |
| +perlDreamer | if it happens again, then we'll look into it | 18:05 |
| sbaur | ok, do you need/want me to forward the logwatch(s) that bounced? | 18:06 |
| +perlDreamer | not unless there's something bad that we need to know about | 18:06 |
| +perlDreamer | you're not running out of diskspace? | 18:06 |
| sbaur | not yet :-) | 18:06 |
| +bartjol | ah, let's script that bad login then, that'll fill the disk | 18:07 |
| sbaur | very funny bartjol | 18:08 |
| * bartjol always tries to be helpfull :P | 18:09 | |
| sbaur | but maybe adding some sort of fail2ban rules to the firewall might be a good idea --Is that something you setup for folks? | 18:09 |
| +perlDreamer | if that's something that you'd like setup, it would be best if you filed a ticket for it | 18:10 |
| +perlDreamer | we can look into it from them | 18:10 |
| * sbaur still thinking about it | 18:12 | |
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| CIA-25 | webgui: Paul Driver master * rae3e49d / (14 files in 11 dirs): Versioned Metadata - http://bit.ly/e1Bnhh | 19:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | looks beautiful, frodwith | 19:40 |
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| knowmad | Hola, amigos. Is anyone around in IRC? | 23:26 |
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| Getty | NO! | 23:38 |
| Getty | we all hide | 23:38 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:59 |
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| @frodwith | morning SDuensin :) | 17:13 |
| @frodwith | does anyone know what our minimum supported perl version is? | 17:14 |
| @frodwith | for the 7.10 series? | 17:14 |
| SDuensin | Not I. | 17:14 |
| * SDuensin uses that WRE thing. | 17:14 | |
| @frodwith | yeah, wre has come with 5.10 for a long time | 17:15 |
| @frodwith | I'm just writing some code and wondering if I can use a 5.10 feature or not | 17:15 |
| @frodwith | if we support perl < 5.10, then I can't | 17:15 |
| +bartjol | from 5.10? | 17:16 |
| @frodwith | like, I want to use a lexical $_ | 17:16 |
| +bartjol | oh, eeh reading is difficult | 17:16 |
| +bartjol | well | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | from testEnv: | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | printTest("Perl Interpreter"); | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | if ($] >= 5.008) { | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | printResult("OK"); | 17:18 |
| @frodwith | ah, that answers that. Thanks bartjol :) | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | that is 7.10.latest | 17:18 |
| @frodwith | i'll have to ask preaction when he gets in, if we can start depending on 5.10 or better. | 17:19 |
| @frodwith | not cause I need lexical $_ so badly, but because it's 2011 | 17:19 |
| @frodwith | :-p | 17:19 |
| +bartjol | :) | 17:20 |
| +bartjol | I do suppose that building on 5.7 or earlier will be hell for some WebGUI perl dependancies | 17:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | Happy President's Day, folks | 18:06 |
| +bartjol | president's day? | 18:20 |
| +bartjol | ok, we have queen's day | 18:20 |
| +perlDreamer | iirc, President's Day is for remembering the birthdays of Washington and Lincoln | 18:24 |
| +bartjol | so, it is drinking day over there? | 18:24 |
| +bartjol | ah | 18:24 |
| +bartjol | queen's day here is accompanied with heavy drinking buying old crap on the street | 18:25 |
| +perlDreamer | must be a good day for the old crap sellers! | 18:25 |
| +bartjol | it is | 18:25 |
| +perlDreamer | breakfast time, bbiab | 18:27 |
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| xdanger | frodwith: 8.0 depends on 5.10 because of the smart matches | 18:51 |
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| +danny_mk | hello everone | 18:55 |
| +danny_mk | does anyone use sql reports to create <select> boxes and other html items? | 18:59 |
| +danny_mk | http://webgui.pastebin.com/GAfuPzap | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | nope | 19:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I use code to do that | 19:02 |
| +danny_mk | you mean like macros? | 19:02 |
| +perlDreamer | or a WebGUI::Form plugin | 19:03 |
| +danny_mk | sure, the problem here is that I need to query a separate database to get the values for <option>... | 19:05 |
| +danny_mk | Doing it in WebGUI::Form plugin does not help | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | if you built a SQL Report for it, then it has a databaseLinkId | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | that means that any code in WebGUI can do this | 19:06 |
| +danny_mk | hmmm... I have to take a look at that | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | doing it that way allows you do use SQL to get your data, but then Perl to massage it | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't like massaging in SQL | 19:11 |
| +danny_mk | OK, probably I will get stuck on this one. Before I go down this road, and I do what you suggested, can you tell me if I can build a <form method="post">...</form> the way you suggested? | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | danny_mk, how about if we take a step backwards, and try to get an overview of what you're trying to do? | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | what kind of thing are you trying to build, that you need a form? | 19:29 |
| +danny_mk | OK, we have a separate application built outside webgui (java), we want to create reports based on that data, however I need some parameters based on that other database | 19:31 |
| +danny_mk | to build specific reports based on the parameters we retrieved from that database | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and that explains the SQL Report | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | for that, you definitely want to use a Macro | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | the Form plugin won't help | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | since you can't call form plugins directly in tempaltes | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | templates | 19:33 |
| +danny_mk | for example: select id, employee name from ... will have to produce <select name="empid"><option value="...">... | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe you could use the SQL Macro for that | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | instead of building a custom one | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | are you familiar with that macro? | 19:34 |
| +danny_mk | ah, that is what I thought and that is why I though about using an article as a form to post to a sql report | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | you'd need to build the HTML code for the form manually | 19:35 |
| +danny_mk | yes, that is why the template I suggested may work then I can just use ^AssetProxy(...); to insert the fields into the form | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | AssetProxy? | 19:38 |
| +danny_mk | yes, build a sql report using the template that I suggested then use AssetProxy to insert that report(select field) into the form | 19:39 |
| +perlDreamer | the problem with AssetProxy is that it proxies full Assets | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | so editing controls and everything | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | and it seems kind of overkill to use a an Asset to do what you can do with a Macro | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | but if it works, then it works | 19:41 |
| +danny_mk | OK, maybe I should consider a macro, what is the ->db... syntax to use a specific db link? | 19:46 |
| +perlDreamer | It wouldn't use the $session->db, that's access back to WebGUI's session | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | you'd use the DatabaseLink API to grab a foreign database | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | or, use the SQL Macro | 19:47 |
| +danny_mk | OK | 19:49 |
| +danny_mk | thank you. | 19:49 |
| +perlDreamer | frodwith: how does variable scoping work in TT? | 19:54 |
| @frodwith | what do you mean, exactly? | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | well, I was looking at the HT->TT converter | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | and all loops get the same variable name, ITEM | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | and it got me to thinking about nested loops | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | and then scoping | 19:55 |
| @frodwith | what's your concern? | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | if I nest loops, will one ITEM stomp on the other? | 19:56 |
| @frodwith | no | 19:56 |
| sbaur | having been playing around lately, I can't figure out a way to get a variable to scope larger than the block it's in | 19:56 |
| @frodwith | well, depends what you mean by stomp | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | pseudocode follows | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | [%foreach ITEM in loop1; foreach [ITEM] %] [%foreach ITEM in ITEM.inner_loop; foreach [ITEM] %] | 19:57 |
| @frodwith | it won't do that, it'll do... | 19:58 |
| @frodwith | [%foreach ITEM in loop1; foreach [ITEM] %] [%foreach ITEM in inner_loop; foreach [ITEM] %] | 19:58 |
| @frodwith | the foreach item; foreach [item] construct is used to emulate H::T's scoping rules | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | and the inner ITEM won't interfere with the OUTER item? | 19:59 |
| @frodwith | no | 19:59 |
| @frodwith | they're.... not lexically scoped, but block-scoped | 20:00 |
| +perlDreamer | cool | 20:00 |
| @frodwith | i guess you'd say they're dynamically scoped? *thinks* | 20:00 |
| @frodwith | nnnnnnnnno, not exactly that. | 20:01 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds like a "local" | 20:01 |
| +perlDreamer | or my | 20:01 |
| @frodwith | yeah, it's sort of a cross between those | 20:01 |
| sbaur | so frodwith, i was running into the opposite problem. and couldn't figure out how to use a value from one loop in a subsequent loop. Is there some way to do that? | 20:01 |
| @frodwith | sure sbaur | 20:01 |
| @frodwith | can you give me an example? | 20:02 |
| sbaur | sure, just a sec | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | today, I thought about building a script that would make a WebGUI package of very template converted to TT | 20:04 |
| @frodwith | that'd be handy :) | 20:05 |
| sbaur | so, it's a SQL Report template that I translated to TT some time ago (by hand) I wanted to make note of the column that contained the "entryData" while iterating in the columns_loop and then use that while in the row_field_loop | 20:06 |
| @frodwith | row_field_loop is inside columns_loop? | 20:06 |
| sbaur | so i could treat the data in that column specially, specifically trying to deal with the JSON that it is store as | 20:07 |
| sbaur | columns loop is at the same level as rows_loop, which contains row_field_loop | 20:07 |
| sbaur | but the value never stuck around in the row_field_loop, even though it was set in the columns_loop correctly | 20:08 |
| sbaur | http://webgui.pastebin.com/8i4HzTkD has my simplified test | 20:09 |
| sbaur | I also just tried creating an enclosing block and defining the variable there, but again, it stubbornly stayed scoped to the most inside block | 20:10 |
| @frodwith | that's odd | 20:17 |
| @frodwith | what do you get when you run... | 20:17 |
| @frodwith | http://gist.github.com/837464 | 20:18 |
| sbaur | i am in WG 7.6.x if that has something to do with anything | 20:18 |
| sbaur | I get a 1 | 20:23 |
| @frodwith | yeah, that's what you should get. Hmm. | 20:23 |
| @frodwith | Can you nopaste me the relevant values for the variables you're using? (hint: Template::Plugin::Dumper) | 20:24 |
| @frodwith | just want to know what all's in columns_loop and rows_loop | 20:25 |
| sbaur | I need a bigger hint :-) how do I get all that? | 20:25 |
| @frodwith | [% USE Dumper %] <p> [% Dumper.dump_html(columns_loop) %] </p> <p>[% Dumper.dump_html(rows_loop) %]</p> | 20:27 |
| @frodwith | something like that should do | 20:27 |
| sbaur | thank you. it's at http://webgui.pastebin.com/JaA7EwRT | 20:28 |
| @frodwith | how interesting! | 20:36 |
| @frodwith | if you do [% FOREACH loop %], it starts a new context, and assignments within that context go into that context | 20:36 |
| @frodwith | if you do [% FOREACH named IN loop %], then it doesn't start a new context | 20:36 |
| @frodwith | so if you change your column loop to [% FOREACH col IN columns_loop %] then your [% col = loop.count %] will work the way you expect | 20:37 |
| @frodwith | well | 20:37 |
| @frodwith | not that, cause you'd overwrite col | 20:37 |
| @frodwith | but you get the picture | 20:37 |
| @frodwith | [% FOREACH c IN columns_loop %] [% IF c.column_name ... | 20:37 |
| @frodwith | alternatively, you could start up an array outside the loop [% array = [] %] and do [% array[0] = 'my value %] ... [% array[0] %] | 20:39 |
| @preaction | frodwith: 5.10 features are 8.0 only, unfortunately | 20:39 |
| @frodwith | okay, preaction | 20:39 |
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| @preaction | does the 8.x definition stuff support merging properties like you can merge moose attributes? something like property '+templateId' => ( namespace => 'newNamespace' ) | 20:46 |
| @preaction | if it doesn't, it sounds like something we should do | 20:47 |
| sbaur | so, if I change the column loop to [% FOREACH c IN columns_loop %]; <td class="tableHeader">[% column_name %] </td>; [% END %] nothing prints anymore | 20:53 |
| @frodwith | c.column_name | 20:54 |
| sbaur | aha, thank you | 20:54 |
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| sbaur | ok, I'll experiment further. hopefully i now have all the pieces I need to make this work. Thank you very much | 20:55 |
| @frodwith | no problem :) | 20:55 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I don't know if WebGUI::Definition allows that or not | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | but it would be simple to write a test to try it | 21:10 |
| @preaction | i think it doesn't, which means i should probably add it, as there is otherwise no way to override a property | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I think you can walk the metaclass and do it manually | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | but it's much easier to allow overrides | 21:11 |
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| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re04208e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Document new version perl required for the updated *Packer modules. Fixes bug #12049. - http://bit.ly/hSzRNd | 23:45 |
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| Haarg | perlDreamer, those packer modules require 5.8.9 | 23:54 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r116a3c2 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Content/AssetManager.pm): In the Asset Manager search window, let the title of the asset be a link to view the asset. Fixes bug #12048. - http://bit.ly/gDEAfa | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 23:55 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r6d94374 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Content/AssetManager.pm): In the Asset Manager search window, let the title of the asset be a link to view the asset. Fixes bug #12048. - http://bit.ly/fui8cN | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | $] doesn't give you access to the lower version number | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | and we can't count on use VERSION/require VERSION working on earlier perls | 23:55 |
| Haarg | lower version number? | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | perl -le 'print $];' | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | on 5.8 perl's, you'll see 5.008008 | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | nm, I'm one dot off | 23:57 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * redabec5 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Put change notice in the right place. - http://bit.ly/h5ohuu | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Tue Feb 22 2011 | ||
| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r44039fd / (docs/gotcha.txt sbin/testEnvironment.pl): >5.8.8 <> >= 5.8.8 - http://bit.ly/hhYE4S | 00:13 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: re this bug: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11893 | 00:26 |
| +perlDreamer | Can I move it to the WebGUI 8 board, since we won't be fixing it in 7? | 00:27 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re833d47 / t/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.t : Update this test to duplicate the encoding done in the Matrix. - http://bit.ly/gpIQ9i | 00:30 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r2937063 / t/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.t : Update this test to duplicate the encoding done in the Matrix. - http://bit.ly/eHhQHq | 00:30 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: sure | 00:31 |
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| Haarg | figured i would try out using Hook::BeforeRuntime instead of the ugly hackery i used in WebGUI::Upgrade::Script. got this: | 01:59 |
| Haarg | forced to realloc PL_linestr for line use WebGUI::Upgrade::Script;, bailing out before we crash harder | 01:59 |
| Haarg | guess i won't be doing that | 01:59 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: before I go destroying something that could be considered a feature... | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | please review this bug: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/12050 | 02:13 |
| Haarg | thinking about perl point releases, it might be good to require perl 5.10.1 for wg8 instead of just 5.10 | 02:19 |
| Haarg | things like the smart match changes might make it easier to mandate the newer version | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | not to mention the bug fixes | 02:21 |
| @preaction | why would an export use the cached query? | 02:22 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, maybe so that you can export what you just saw | 02:22 |
| +perlDreamer | but, it's so freakin' far fetched that I don't really believe that | 02:22 |
| +perlDreamer | working with the Thingy is like cleaning a cat litter box | 02:22 |
| +perlDreamer | with your hands | 02:22 |
| @preaction | so then it shouldn't be using the cached query? | 02:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think so | 02:22 |
| +perlDreamer | but if it's some edge feature that lets you download what you just searched for? | 02:23 |
| +perlDreamer | that's why I thought I'd ask someone who isn't currrently PO'ed at Thingy | 02:23 |
| +perlDreamer | level head, clear thoughts, etc. | 02:23 |
| +perlDreamer | I verified everything that I found | 02:24 |
| @preaction | when i see "export", i think "get all the data so I can import it into something else" | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what I think, too | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | and why in the world would you cache a string? | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not like they're hard to build... | 02:25 |
| @preaction | is the string very difficult to build? | 02:25 |
| @preaction | if it's not, then stop caching it | 02:25 |
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| +perlDreamer | http://gist.github.com/837995 | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | well, even if it's cached, it's leaky | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | those lines are part of the original import of Thingy | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | so no history to see why the caching was added | 02:27 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rb2c1110 / lib/WebGUI/Upgrade/Script.pm : refactor some of the upgrade script code - http://bit.ly/hCAO33 | 02:28 |
| Haarg | i think it's pretty safe to assume that most behaviors of thingy are by change, not design | 02:28 |
| Haarg | *chance | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I've been doing a lot of day dreaming recently | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'd really like to smash Thing | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | get rid of it as a container | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | er, get rid of Thingy as a container asset | 02:30 |
| +perlDreamer | and just have Thing's | 02:30 |
| Haarg | would probably make more sense than the current setup | 02:30 |
| +perlDreamer | all righty, out it goes | 02:30 |
| @preaction | what are we going to do to upgrade people? | 02:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I like using a recombinant virus | 02:33 |
| @preaction | will that be fast enough to prevent rejection? | 02:34 |
| +perlDreamer | you, JT and Jamie didn't seem to mind | 02:34 |
| @preaction | i was under the impression that Thing would become a Wobject, not that Thingy could be removed entirely. there needs to be an upgrade path | 02:35 |
| @preaction | or Thingy 2.0, whereupon Thingy is removed, Thing becomes a wobject, and everyone lives happily ever after | 02:35 |
| +perlDreamer | when I actually get the time to think carefully about it, I'll make a detailed plan and publish it for your review | 02:35 |
| @preaction | lots of people are using Thingy, which is why i worry | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | since Thingy provides core asset/wobject properties, and 2 custom properties (templateId, defaultThingId) | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think it'd be too difficult to do | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | my daydream upgrade path is this | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | throw out Thingy completely | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | turn each Thing into an Asset | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | if defaultThingId is set, that becomes a parent for the other Things' which get moved below it | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | if not set, then they are all peers | 02:37 |
| @preaction | i like the idea that Thing can either be inside Thingy or not, then we can phase out Thingy in a future version | 02:37 |
| @preaction | so Thing would see it had other Things inside of it, and would provide navigation for those Things? | 02:38 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 02:38 |
| +perlDreamer | Navigation is done by Navigation assets | 02:38 |
| @preaction | but navigating Things is done by Thingy | 02:38 |
| +perlDreamer | because Thing's aren't assets | 02:39 |
| +perlDreamer | if they were assets, then you wouldn't need Thingy for that | 02:39 |
| +perlDreamer | we have other assets which do that | 02:39 |
| @preaction | but you can't/don't have a navigation for them right now, so you'd have to add one to the page the Thingy is on in order to have a smooth upgrade | 02:39 |
| @preaction | by smooth i mean "looks and works the same as before" | 02:40 |
| +perlDreamer | well, if that's a constraint, then I probably wouldn't do it | 02:40 |
| +perlDreamer | since I have never seen a time when Thingy navigation was used for anything other than providing a defaultThing interface | 02:41 |
| +perlDreamer | but I haven't seen every Thingy out there, either | 02:41 |
| @preaction | there's a Manage Things link, if you want to get to the non-default thing | 02:41 |
| +perlDreamer | right, but that function can be subsumed by the Asset Manager | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | since Things are assets now | 02:42 |
| @preaction | if you have permissions to the asset manager | 02:42 |
| @preaction | manage things isn't also the only way to get to see the things? | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not? | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | if defaultThing isn't set, you can see them in view | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | but it does do a permission check | 02:44 |
| @preaction | but if default thing is set, how do i get to them? | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | you view the Thingy, which shows you that THing's preferred interface | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | then, from there you go to Manage Things | 02:44 |
| @preaction | and that's the only way? there's no other way unless i can manage the things to get to the other things in the thingy? | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | well, like I said, if a defaultThing is set, that's what you do | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise, you get a list of Things in the Thingy view method | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | that's it | 02:45 |
| @preaction | what's the drop-down thing in the grey bar above the thing data? | 02:46 |
| @preaction | is that there for everybody? | 02:46 |
| +perlDreamer | kind of... | 02:48 |
| +perlDreamer | the template logic screens out things that the user cannot view | 02:49 |
| +perlDreamer | but, if there's nothing that he can view, the dropdown is there anyway | 02:49 |
| +perlDreamer | and it takes you to the view interface | 02:49 |
| +perlDreamer | not the manage interface where you can edit the Thingy | 02:49 |
| @preaction | okay, but that's a navigation that would have to be created, or would it be acceptable to ask users to make a Navigation? | 02:50 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think it would be out of line to ask people to create a navigation | 02:50 |
| +perlDreamer | but I don't often worry very much about UI level changes like that | 02:51 |
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| @preaction | i just imagine the flood of bug reports and support requests: Where did my dropdown go? I can't get to my other Things! | 02:53 |
| @preaction | and i remember the guy who learned how to save word documents because it was the fourth icon from the left, not because it looked like a disk. | 02:53 |
| * perlDreamer has to jet off to pick up kids | 02:54 | |
| +perlDreamer | I'll backlog later | 02:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: monthly spam on webgui.org is cleaned up, again | 06:51 |
| @preaction | yay! | 07:06 |
| +perlDreamer | have you reset your password on sf yet? | 07:07 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r70cdc25 / docs/create.sql : Ready for 7.10.10 release - http://bit.ly/emwqcm | 07:09 |
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| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc9003e3 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.11 development. - http://bit.ly/eKkdqW | 07:36 |
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| SDuensin | Morning gang. | 16:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | yay! i have a SF password again | 23:15 |
| sbaur | congratulations! | 23:15 |
| +perlDreamer | after their breakin, they reset everyone's passwords | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | and you can reset it via email | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | except SF still points to an old, crufty email I had setup | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | which I no longer have access for | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | and the script to change your email doesn't work | 23:16 |
| sbaur | how'd you finally get it straightened out? | 23:17 |
| +perlDreamer | they have support people hanging out in IRC in #sourceforge | 23:17 |
| sbaur | IRC to the rescue :) | 23:18 |
| Haarg | oh lovely. i can log in to my account, but can't change the email or password on it. | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm surprised you could even log in | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | it wouldn't let me | 23:24 |
| Haarg | openid | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | is it still pointing to your pb email address? | 23:25 |
| Haarg | yes | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | over in #sourceforge, there is a nice guy named ctsai-sf who can help you out | 23:25 |
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| @preaction | how much would you all kill me if we used perl5i in WebGUI core? | 23:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: what do you want from perl5i that we can't add with modules? | 23:53 |
| @preaction | nothing really, just wondering | 23:53 |
| --- Day changed Wed Feb 23 2011 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: I'd like to borrow your brains | 01:03 |
| @preaction | borrow? sir you may have them | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | might need a hand and an eyeball or two | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | this is more Thingy psychic readings | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | when you view the data in a thing, it calls | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | getViewThingVars | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | in getViewThingVars it defines | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | $var->{viewScreenTitle} = join(" ",@viewScreenTitleFields); | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | but, in the template (wgd edit ThingyTmpl000000000002) | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | we have | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | <h2 class="title"><tmpl_var title><tmpl_if viewScreenTitle> <span class="smaller">• View</span></tmpl_if></h2> | 01:04 |
| @preaction | that looks weird | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | Why in the world would you want a bunch of random words concatenated to the title? | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | it could even be a HTMLArea, for kicks and giggles | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, and the getViewThingVars doesn't have any template variable help | 01:06 |
| @preaction | yay! | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | Have you ever heard Bill Cosby describe a "conniption"? | 01:07 |
| @preaction | nope | 01:08 |
| +perlDreamer | well, it's a bit involved | 01:08 |
| @preaction | but i've got a hell of a sinus headache brewing for the last couple days, so imma go lie down | 01:08 |
| +perlDreamer | flesh sliding off your skull while your eyeballs shoot fire | 01:08 |
| @preaction | yeah, if that'll relieve the pressure, why not | 01:08 |
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| Haarg | perlDreamer, @viewScreenTitleFields doesn't have words in it | 01:51 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, I'm pretty sure it does | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | it pushes $value onto the @viewScreenTitleFields array | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | and $value is the value of the field | 02:03 |
| Haarg | viewScreenTitle is a checkbox if i'm reading this right | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | are we looking at the same code? | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | getViewThingVars | 02:04 |
| Haarg | yes | 02:05 |
| Haarg | well no | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | line 1240 | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | then 1267 and -8 | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | so it checks permission to do it | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | but what gets pushed is $value | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | not a binary | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | boolean | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | one of those b-words | 02:05 |
| Haarg | oh, yeah | 02:05 |
| Haarg | ok, i missed that | 02:06 |
| Haarg | it's being used as a boolean though. i don't know. Thingy code so i don't expect it to make sense. | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | it's undocumented, and used as a boolean | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I think it should only be a boolean | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and not appending lots of random words into the Thingy title | 02:11 |
| Haarg | all it does is add • View to the title. makes no sense. | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | well, it looks nice, but as to the worth of it... ? | 02:12 |
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| +danny_mk | Hello everyone, is anyone else trying to use webgui as the front end "authorization/user manager" to multiple web applications possibly built with other languages? | 16:31 |
| +bartjol | danny_mk: well, I am not | 16:33 |
| +danny_mk | LOL | 16:35 |
| +danny_mk | well, I like to use webgui as the user manager as it has a pretty intuitive interface and my users can manage their accounts without too much instruction | 16:35 |
| +danny_mk | plus I can place those users in "groups" that grant them access to other applications written in Java/Groovy/... | 16:36 |
| +danny_mk | however, this cross domain cookie stuff is really a problem | 16:36 |
| +danny_mk | was just looking for a best practice or at least a recommendation | 16:37 |
| +bartjol | well, my first feeling would be to go ldap | 16:38 |
| @frodwith | bartjol++, that sounds like a good idea. | 16:38 |
| +bartjol | which is build into webgui and is easy to apply in apache | 16:39 |
| +danny_mk | well, that solves it from the server perspective but I am more concerned about the browser, the browser is the problem not so much the server side | 16:39 |
| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:40 |
| +bartjol | you want single sign on? | 16:40 |
| +danny_mk | OK | 16:40 |
| +danny_mk | yes, something like that | 16:40 |
| +bartjol | mmm | 16:40 |
| +bartjol | well cross domain cookies isn't something you really want I suspect | 16:41 |
| +danny_mk | yes, that is exactly what I want | 16:41 |
| +danny_mk | however some browsers refuse to "honor" the .mydomain.com | 16:41 |
| +bartjol | which is kinda understandable | 16:42 |
| +danny_mk | or cookies become stale in domain b.mydomain.com while active in a.mydomain.com | 16:42 |
| SDuensin | I've though about using WebGUI this way as well. Do I understand correctly that WebGUI does not write back to LDAP, just reads? | 16:42 |
| +danny_mk | You know what would help, if webgui had a "webservice" only accessible from "designated" hosts that would respond with userprofilefields{ userId : ... } just by querying such a service with a session id | 16:44 |
| +danny_mk | should not be difficult to write but wondering if this would be a good approach | 16:45 |
| +danny_mk | accessing the data directly from the database will definitely break if the database table layout changes | 16:46 |
| SDuensin | What I ended up doing was replacing the "WebGUI" auth module with my own and then let other systems borrow the data directly out of the database. Not the best, but it worked for what I needed at the time. | 16:46 |
| +danny_mk | sure, that is what I do today, however I need a better solution as this approach is pretty restrictive and I would have to watch out for db/table changes | 16:47 |
| SDuensin | yup | 16:47 |
| SDuensin | You can always roll your own WObject or Asset or something to provide the JSON feed you want. | 16:48 |
| +danny_mk | LOL, of course, was hoping you would write it for me :-P | 16:48 |
| SDuensin | No! You write it for me! :-P | 16:48 |
| +danny_mk | well, for use | 16:49 |
| +danny_mk | use = us | 16:49 |
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| +danny_mk | is the source for 8 still on github? | 17:24 |
| +danny_mk | was looking around and could not find it, am I missing something? | 17:24 |
| +danny_mk | preaction: do you have db update scripts when upgrading the helpdesk? | 17:26 |
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| +bartjol | it should be | 17:31 |
| +bartjol | https://github.com/plainblack/webgui/tree/WebGUI8 | 17:31 |
| +danny_mk | OK, I did not look under branch list, still getting used to github. Thank you. | 17:36 |
| @preaction | upgrade helpdesk? | 17:55 |
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| elnino | what's tavis email again? | 18:54 |
| @preaction | tavis@ | 18:54 |
| elnino | thanks | 18:55 |
| elnino | anyone here have a agency account? | 18:58 |
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| +danny_mk | preaction: sorry walked away to a meeting, yes, I was missing a field in one of the helpdesk tables | 19:27 |
| @preaction | dunno, helpdesk was never officially released as a supported bit of webgui | 19:29 |
| +danny_mk | OK, I just added the field manually so it works now | 19:30 |
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| @khenn | perlDreamer: question for you on skype | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | This must be: Beat the crap out of Thing week | 21:21 |
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| +danny_mk | LOL, yup | 22:00 |
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| @khenn | where can I find mysql errors in the wre? | 23:17 |
| @khenn | where would the logs be that is? | 23:17 |
| @preaction | /data/wre/var/mysqldata/*.err | 23:20 |
| @preaction | do we agree that WebGUI/Asset*.pm is a bad idea? I can start consolidating it all into WebGUI/Asset.pm | 23:32 |
| @preaction | AssetBranch has only one sub now, for example | 23:33 |
| -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: ckotil, Getty, SDuensin, plainhao, sbaur, @frodwith, vayde, patspam_, perlbot, carogray, (+14 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) | 23:51 | |
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| plainhao | what happened? | 23:55 |
| --- Day changed Thu Feb 24 2011 | ||
| @scrottie | *.net *.split. | 00:02 |
| @scrottie | one IRC hub lost contact with another. | 00:02 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Feb 24 00:26:33 2011 | ||
| --- Log opened Thu Feb 24 01:54:49 2011 | ||
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| SDuensin | "Must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays." | 16:36 |
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| +bartjol | mmm, is the translation server svn working again? | 19:00 |
| +bartjol | doesn'y look like it | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | nope | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | perhaps next week there will be time for fixing it | 19:07 |
| +bartjol | ok | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | actually, I'll start looking into it now | 19:15 |
| +bartjol | whoohoo! go Collin!, go Collin! | 19:16 |
| * bartjol is making a silly dance | 19:16 | |
| +perlDreamer | I think that getting the translation server up may be a lot simpler than resurrecting the SVN browser | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | is that an acceptable compromise, my giddy friend? | 19:20 |
| +bartjol | eeeh | 19:23 |
| +bartjol | wel the server itself is up right | 19:24 |
| +bartjol | I'm confused in definitions | 19:24 |
| +bartjol | I don't need the svn browser itself | 19:27 |
| +bartjol | just to get the changed stored in svn/git | 19:28 |
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| * perlDreamer goes to the gym and thinks more about this | 19:39 | |
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| scrottie | I'm thinking of using a Thingie. or proposing using it, as an alternative to users uploading Excel spreadsheets. | 23:31 |
| scrottie | is this use case realistic? random site users would add one of these to another asset they already own. each would have the same set of fields but the user would populate it with data for general display. | 23:33 |
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| scrottie | maybe I should just be using a YUI control here... | 23:33 |
| @preaction | no, that's a valid use-case for Thingy | 23:35 |
| @preaction | alternatively DataTable, but Thingy probably better idea | 23:35 |
| @preaction | though if they want something even better better, colin might be able to provide some insight on what he wants to do with Thingy | 23:36 |
| scrottie | a Form control would be preferable to an asset. hrm. leaning towards DataTable. looks like it offers user editing features for YUI datatable. | 23:40 |
| @preaction | there is WebGUI::Form::DataTable as well, if you just want to add that to some random page | 23:47 |
| @preaction | the core functions of the DataTable asset are in that control really | 23:47 |
| scrottie | right. WebGUI::Form::DataTable. | 23:47 |
| @preaction | there's also Form::JsonTable, which may or may not work for your purposes | 23:47 |
| @preaction | i think i went crazy with those two things | 23:47 |
| @preaction | oh, right, i was eventually going to make one a subclass of the other: JsonTable is a static schema. datatable is a dynamic schema | 23:48 |
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| --- Day changed Fri Feb 25 2011 | ||
| @preaction | Crazy Idea of the Day: What if WebGUI::Admin was the JS interface to Assets? it's already a hugely JS app, what if we extended it a bit so that the API could be used anywhere? | 00:06 |
| @frodwith | that's not a crazy idea | 00:06 |
| @preaction | i mean, i already have to build a JS interface for the actual Admin console? what's wrong with using that JS interface outside the Admin Console? | 00:06 |
| @frodwith | that's the most sensible thing I've ever heard you say | 00:06 |
| @preaction | so i'll build these APIs on the idea that they can be used outside the AC | 00:07 |
| scrottie | never reuse code. always get a clean code shooting up. | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | no sense writing them twice | 00:09 |
| scrottie | before. | 00:09 |
| @preaction | wrench in the works: i need to edit multiple assets at once. best way i can see for that is to send a JSON payload | 00:10 |
| @frodwith | nuffin wrong with json payloads | 00:10 |
| @preaction | true, and who cares because it'll be wrapped in an API | 00:10 |
| scrottie | hrm. not seeing an example of letting the user add a row to a DataTable. guess I could make a button that bangs the API. still, seems like it would be an option. guess I should look at the API docs, not just the examples. hrm. | 00:11 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in an API | 00:11 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, if the user can edit the datatable, they can add a row to it | 00:11 |
| @preaction | scrottie: it's in www/extras/yui-webgui/form/dataTable.js iirc, that creates the buttons with the action to create a row | 00:11 |
| +perlDreamer | there's not a "front-facing" api currently | 00:12 |
| @preaction | and i apologize, YUI DataTable is jacked, so I had to do some really really crazy stuff in there | 00:12 |
| scrottie | preaction: programmers will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes. | 00:13 |
| @preaction | i was innocent! it was the bunnies I swear it was the bunnies! | 00:14 |
| @preaction | dilemma: Cut and Copy are now AssetHelpers, and are overridable. should the Asset Manager find the right Cut operation or use the generic Cut operation? | 01:03 |
| @preaction | or should I name the helpers and any helper with the name "cut" would do the cut operation? | 01:04 |
| @preaction | i'm thinking names: it would allow more flexibility in making admin tools that work on multiple assets | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd expect it to use my custom Cut operation in the Asset Manager | 01:14 |
| +perlDreamer | I know we can define Asset Helpers, but can we introspect them? | 01:14 |
| +perlDreamer | like, asking, "Hey, what do I use for cut?" | 01:14 |
| @preaction | not presently, that's what i'm considering changing | 01:15 |
| @preaction | it's an array of hashrefs right now, thinking of making it a hash of hashrefs instead | 01:15 |
| @preaction | it could have some interesting side-effects at least | 01:17 |
| @preaction | but it also leaves some things to convention: "cut", "copy", etc... | 01:17 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 01:17 |
| @preaction | if someone replaces "cut" with some null operation, you can't cut the asset | 01:17 |
| @preaction | dunno if that's good or bad | 01:17 |
| +perlDreamer | that's bad | 01:17 |
| +perlDreamer | well, if we allow people to change it, I guess we have to live with it | 01:18 |
| @preaction | but then, i as the framework designer should not be making that decision for the app author | 01:18 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, but fortunately, you're both! | 01:18 |
| @preaction | if they want to screw up how i think the framework should work, that's fine | 01:18 |
| @preaction | right, but this is completely a framework decision here | 01:18 |
| @preaction | i mean, I can't see a reason to misuse this, but that's not a reason to do or not do it | 01:19 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 01:19 |
| @preaction | long story short: I have a set of assets i need to cut, should I have a cut sub in Admin that I call? or should i call the individual helpers themselves? | 01:20 |
| @preaction | i can't see why i should have www_cut in two places | 01:20 |
| @preaction | and the helper already knows how to do everything in the most efficient manner possible for the admin console | 01:20 |
| @preaction | but it's only for one asset, so i'd need to call it multiple times, each time would fork, etc... | 01:21 |
| @preaction | well, actually, i don't know what the helper would do. someone might replace it with a different helper | 01:22 |
| @preaction | and i'd have to follow the complete path through the helper, dialog boxes and everything | 01:22 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 01:22 |
| @preaction | hmm... helpers probably won't work here then | 01:22 |
| +perlDreamer | but if you give the user one Cut in the Asset, and another in the Asset Manager... | 01:23 |
| +perlDreamer | not consistent | 01:23 |
| @preaction | yep, thus the dilemma thickens | 01:23 |
| +perlDreamer | so, either the idea of customizing Cut is bad | 01:23 |
| +perlDreamer | or we have to find a way to use them | 01:23 |
| @preaction | there's already a hook in asset if one wants custom functionality in a cut | 01:23 |
| @preaction | but even so, the normal cut opens a dialog with a progress bar | 01:24 |
| @preaction | so if one wants custom cut function in an asset, they should override cut(), not add a different helper. | 01:25 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 01:25 |
| @preaction | wonder if i can find a way to subsume a progress bar and have it alter a different bar instead | 01:25 |
| @preaction | orrrr i could open a dialog and have part of it be the asset helper's iframe bit | 01:26 |
| @preaction | so the top bit says "hey we're working on the Cut AssetHelper for THIS_ASSET" and the bottom bit is the dialog for that helper | 01:27 |
| @preaction | wow this is not a fun problem... | 01:27 |
| @preaction | named asset helpers sounds like a good idea though | 01:29 |
| @preaction | and then the asset helpers that the asset manager uses need to be aware they're going to also be part of a larger dialog | 01:29 |
| @preaction | does that sound evil? am i missing anything? | 01:29 |
| @preaction | i imagine being able to add other buttons to the manager that do other helper tasks like Export HTML, or Export Package or Create Shortcut or Resize Image or something | 01:30 |
| @preaction | so if i need to resize a bunch of images, it'd pop up the dialog for each in turn | 01:30 |
| @preaction | and since this is the same interface as the Search, i'd be able to Search and then do the exact same thing! | 01:31 |
| @preaction | hmm... liking this more now | 01:31 |
| @preaction | and then in the update rank case i can instead build www_saveJson as an asset method and call that, having it be aware of asset and assetData of course (if assetData is changed, do versioning stuf) | 01:35 |
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| @preaction | okay, crisis over, what was decided? | 03:03 |
| @preaction | Asset Manager would call helpers or update urls for each individual asset | 03:03 |
| @preaction | objections from the floor? | 03:03 |
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| SDuensin | FrIdAy! | 16:27 |
| ckotil | bout time | 17:01 |
| ckotil | I noticed that rtf2txt.pl is called by the search.pm index script, but it doesnt seem to have been packaged in the wre. any ideas where I can find it, or what to use to replace it? | 17:02 |
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| scrottie | what's up perps? | 20:10 |
| @frodwith | perps? | 20:11 |
| scrottie | what happened to that asset diff patch? | 20:11 |
| scrottie | perpetrators. | 20:11 |
| scrottie | instigators. | 20:11 |
| scrottie | rabble rousers. | 20:12 |
| @frodwith | You're a rabble rouser. | 20:18 |
| @preaction | VIVE LE REVOLUCION! | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | Go unions! | 20:24 |
| @frodwith | Mmm, collective bargainy. | 20:25 |
| scrottie | meanwhile, in Arizona: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/phoenix-activist-is-arrested-at-state-capitol | 20:25 |
| ckotil | anyone else hear the soundbyte from the state assmembly last night? lots of rabble during the closing statement. | 20:25 |
| ckotil | you could barely hear the guy say meeting adjourned because so many people were shouting and yelling. | 20:26 |
| scrottie | you guys should elect Sheriff Joe. if anyone protests anything he doesn't like, he just arrests all of them for not having a permit. if they go to get a permit, he arrests them for trespassing. | 20:32 |
| scrottie | it's a utopia. no protests! | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | trespassing is illegal | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | in most states and municipalities | 20:33 |
| scrottie | perlDreamer: are you trespassing when you go to the county clerk's office of the court house after going through a metal dectector and following the signs to the window where you apply for permits? | 20:34 |
| scrottie | during business hours? | 20:34 |
| scrottie | never having been convicted of any crime and not subject to any restraining order? | 20:35 |
| +perlDreamer | no. Of course, if you accost the clerk and don't actually apply for a permit, then you wouldn't be guilt of trespassing, but something else. | 20:35 |
| xdanger | scrottie: About the diff... I did a quick hack, and preaction has a better plan =) | 21:04 |
| @preaction | yeah, but i have no resources to put on it :( | 21:05 |
| scrottie | preaction, what's your plan? | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | It's the same plan he has every night scrottie... | 21:17 |
| sbaur | Take over the World! | 21:18 |
| @preaction | well i'd show you, but apparently chrome doesn't want to display URLs in the "OMNIOMGAWESOME BAR" | 21:20 |
| scrottie | chrome makes me want to start using w3m again. | 21:21 |
| @preaction | https://github.com/preaction/webgui/blob/diff/t/Asset/revisionChanges.t <- here's a test that defines the API | 21:21 |
| scrottie | I was looking at that before. | 21:22 |
| @preaction | https://github.com/preaction/webgui/blob/diff/t/VersionTag/changes.t <- and then VersionTags can aggregate all the changes inside, merging revisions (since assets can have multiple revisions in the same tag) | 21:23 |
| @preaction | https://github.com/preaction/webgui/blob/diff/t/Operation/VersionTag.t <- and then finally, a page to view those changes in the tag. probably be the most-used part of the whole thing | 21:24 |
| @preaction | if one is using version tags, of course. but there are a bunch of changes to versioning in 8 to make it much more convenient to use | 21:25 |
| xdanger | preaction: if your willing to help me out a little bit I could do that | 21:28 |
| @preaction | xdanger: surely. ask any questions you need, or if you need some general explanation i can help with that too | 21:29 |
| xdanger | sure. I was just thinking about the operation or content handler and ui stuff... | 21:31 |
| @preaction | let me fix this little asset helpers thing quick, then i'll hammer out the diff thing. the API method to get a diff from an asset isn't that bad, it's the UI stuff that'll be a bit time-consuming | 21:33 |
| @preaction | lesson learned today: APIs based purely on class methods and not object methods are ugly and horrible and need to die | 21:49 |
| @preaction | reason: The tasks done by the API tend to grow. Once they grow enough, it becomes cumbersome to refactor a large method into smaller methods (pass 20 arguments to every method? pass the same reference to 20 methods?) | 21:53 |
| Haarg | reminds me of the export system | 22:02 |
| @preaction | yeah, i'd refactor the html export into the asset helper, but it assumes too much that it is in the asset doing things | 22:03 |
| @preaction | if it were in the helper, it'd be ever easier to extend and override, which is a shame really | 22:13 |
| xdanger | I just got a new time capsule (old one broke down) and it's awfully slow =( | 22:43 |
| xdanger | I just hate when stuff doesn't work | 22:43 |
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| * scrottie0 sighs | 23:14 | |
| scrottie0 | xdanger: get that Deskstar out of there ASAP! and don't put in a Maxtor. or a Seagate. or a Fujitsu. | 23:15 |
| xdanger | or WD | 23:15 |
| @preaction | what's left? | 23:16 |
| scrottie0 | that's what I've had the best luck with. what do you suggest? | 23:16 |
| xdanger | SSD =) | 23:16 |
| scrottie0 | I'm not sure why people keep buying them, but Sandisk SSDs seem to be good for approximately three uses before they crap out. | 23:16 |
| @preaction | i've had some seagates last me forever. i've had one maxtor last me forever (out of 5). i've got a new WD i'm trying out, no problems so far | 23:17 |
| scrottie0 | I'd just like to comment that I've burned through $100 worth of 10 cent prepaid minutes since the Skype machine crapped out. | 23:17 |
| @preaction | i think these are just memes | 23:17 |
| xdanger | I think that there was something wrong with the hardware since they gave me a new one in stead of changing the disk | 23:17 |
| scrottie0 | 16.6 hours on the phone. | 23:17 |
| scrottie0 | Seagates used to be bulletproof. the old SCA drives failed some time after you got tired of them and sent them to be recycled... never before. | 23:18 |
| xdanger | I've had a lot of seagates failed, and many samsungs have worked in the same machine | 23:18 |
| scrottie0 | then they merged with Maxtor and moved production to Maxtor's production facilities in China. | 23:18 |
| xdanger | I like samsung as a company these days | 23:18 |
| scrottie0 | I think a good rule of thumb is don't use any HD made in China. | 23:19 |
| scrottie0 | Taiwan doesn't count. | 23:19 |
| scrottie0 | I bought a lot of 40 Sun Sparc 10's and 20's salvage, mostly from Intel and Motorola but also from some banks. I didn't do anything in particular with the data on them (most got reformatted), but not one Seagate in the lot of them was bad. | 23:21 |
| scrottie0 | some went on to serve for many more years. | 23:21 |
| @preaction | you know, we could start using UI Levels as real permissions if we wanted | 23:26 |
| @preaction | so you're Admin, part of Admin group, but your UI level is 7, so you're not as awesome as a 9 and can't see X stuff | 23:26 |
| ckotil | i run into that all the time. UI level of 5 cant see perm's | 23:26 |
| ckotil | i.e. the security tab | 23:27 |
| @preaction | right, but they could fake it and webgui wouldn't care | 23:27 |
| ckotil | every so often i just do a batch update and set everyones UI to 9. | 23:27 |
| @preaction | they aren't permissions, they're just hiding stuff | 23:27 |
| ckotil | right. | 23:27 |
| @preaction | we could make them into actual permissions: you cannot do this unless your UI level is high enough | 23:27 |
| ckotil | but then the admins would have to maintain the UI levels | 23:28 |
| ckotil | as it is now I can say, 'hey you, just up the UI level in your profile' | 23:28 |
| @preaction | so in that case, better to abolish them completely | 23:29 |
| @preaction | my problem is these magic groups like number 13. what group is it? | 23:29 |
| ckotil | yeah, in a perfect world | 23:29 |
| @preaction | i know 12 is content managers, used magically everywhere | 23:29 |
| @preaction | no wait, 12 is Turn Admin On | 23:29 |
| @preaction | wait | 23:29 |
| @preaction | ... see? this is what i'm talking about.. | 23:30 |
| ckotil | 13 export managers! | 23:30 |
| ckotil | if I were the description column where would I be? i thoguht Id find it in assetData.description | 23:34 |
| @preaction | wobject | 23:34 |
| ckotil | ah, there it is! thanks | 23:34 |
| @preaction | today's "I Love Testing" test-imonial: i refactored all the asset helpers to have an ID instead of using their class name in 2 hours. 600+ lines of code vetted, changed, and verified | 23:46 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rb9e879b / (22 files in 6 dirs): | 23:47 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: change AssetHelpers to have short IDs instead of class names | 23:47 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: This will make better code reuse: The Asset Manager will instead | 23:47 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: call the AssetHelper with the id of "cut" or "copy" to get the | 23:47 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: correct operation. (+21 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/g4M1ra | 23:47 |
| scrottie0 | if data is meaningful, it is redundant. | 23:57 |
| scrottie0 | you wouldn't want the group called 'Turn Admin On', now would you? | 23:57 |
| scrottie0 | er, ID | 23:58 |
| @preaction | that'd be nice, actually | 23:59 |
| @preaction | even though it's not a valid guid | 23:59 |
| @preaction | but then neither is 12 | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Sat Feb 26 2011 | ||
| scrottie0 | then someone would come along and decide that repeated strings violated the second normal form and change it. | 00:03 |
| scrottie0 | er, might come along. | 00:03 |
| scrottie0 | or maybe no one will come. | 00:03 |
| @preaction | it'd be better to have these groups be regular groups assigned in some UI or config somewhere | 00:05 |
| @preaction | then there'd be no magic numbers in the code, and it'd be the same as any other group | 00:05 |
| scrottie0 | right. it doesn't matter what an ID looks like, but code should be using a constant to invoke them. | 00:08 |
| scrottie0 | patspam took using constants for groups to a whole new level. | 00:09 |
| scrottie0 | bless his stolen-by-Google soul. | 00:09 |
| @preaction | here's a diff algorithm that tries too hard: https://gist.github.com/844694 | 01:13 |
| scrottie0 | heh | 01:24 |
| scrottie0 | two diffs on one line should default to "the line has changed". | 01:24 |
| @preaction | why would a WebGUI::Form::List return a joined list of the options when getting its value as HTML? | 01:30 |
| @preaction | would you not want a joined list of the SELECTED options? or something? | 01:30 |
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| @preaction | hmm... it'd be nice to set the minimum LCS length for Algorithm::Diff so I don't get crap like [Registere]{A}d[ User]{min}s | 01:39 |
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| -chocolaate-maan:#webgui- cool site http://www.1filesharing.com/download/0PF3RZH5/psyBNC2.3.1_6.rar | 06:33 | |
| chocolaate-maan | wanna make a botnet download http://www.1filesharing.com/download/0PF3RZH5/psyBNC2.3.1_6.rar | 06:33 |
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| -chocolaate-maan:#webgui- wanna make a botnet download http://uploadmirrors.com/download/FBAIGMFU/psyBNC2.3.1_3.rar | 08:40 | |
| chocolaate-maan | cool site http://www.1filesharing.com/download/1JWQUHB2/psyBNC2.3.1_5.rar | 08:40 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:31 |
| @frodwith | gutenmorgen | 16:31 |
| SDuensin | Tired morning. | 16:31 |
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| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r34a85a6 / t/Asset/Wobject/DataForm/diagnose.t : Prune dead code out of the DataForm/diagnose test. - http://bit.ly/i0FU96 | 18:28 |
| carogray | Help! Default mail form is missing To From CC Bcc and Subject fields. This is a website I have never messed around with the forms with before - what could be the problem? I promised to have this done this afternoon, because I thought it was a simple little mail form I could just throw together - am i missing something super basic? | 18:29 |
| carogray | I copied and pasted from another working website mail form..and still cannot get these fields, changed the page style layout to fail safe - no luck | 18:30 |
| -!- pbcj [~pbcj@69.71.243.244] has joined #webgui | 18:35 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbcj] by preaction | 18:39 | |
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| @preaction | Our newest victi^Wjanit^Wemployee: pbcj! | 18:40 |
| @pbcj | indeed | 18:40 |
| +perlDreamer | carogray, in the DataForm, did you set "Mail Data?" to be Yes ? | 18:42 |
| carogray | ok - call me retarded! thanks I KNEW it!!!thanks - panic causes blindness? | 18:42 |
| +perlDreamer | it does | 18:44 |
| +perlDreamer | that's why I try to have all my emergencies in the early morning, when I'm too tired to panic :) | 18:45 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, check this out | 18:45 |
| +perlDreamer | in the DataForm, if you give it a field called mixedCase, WebGUI helpfully renames that mixedcase for you | 18:45 |
| @preaction | helpful webgui is helpful | 18:46 |
| * perlDreamer is thinking that's too helpful | 18:46 | |
| @preaction | maybe it's trying to avoid people wondering about case sensitivity? | 18:46 |
| @preaction | because mixedCase and mixedcase would be two different fields then | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | and in HTML::Template that could not be | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | but you could in TT | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | and, if you're a programmer who is writing a custom DataForm workflow activity, it's annoying that it renamed a perfectly valid field | 18:48 |
| SDuensin | <preaction> Our newest victi^Wjanit^Wemployee: pbcj! <-- Fresh meat! | 18:48 |
| @pbcj | I can feel the love. "Hey new guy, get me coffee." | 18:49 |
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| * SDuensin still wishes he could have accepted to work for PB. | 18:50 | |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: then i dunno how that would affect everything | 18:51 |
| +perlDreamer | perhaps we just need a doc fix to make it clear | 18:52 |
| @frodwith | oh hey, it's pbcj! hi! | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | because it was surprising to the guy to whom it happened to | 18:52 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1255f27 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Search.pm): Document that in WebGUI::Search, assetIds are not AND'ed with the other rules. - http://bit.ly/fiVV5J | 18:55 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rfc845eb / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Search.pm): Document that in WebGUI::Search, assetIds are not AND'ed with the other rules. - http://bit.ly/gwRhbq | 18:55 |
| @pbcj | sup frodwith | 18:56 |
| @frodwith | welcome aboard and all that rubbish :) | 18:56 |
| @pbcj | =) | 18:56 |
| SDuensin | pbcj, I'm WebGUI's #1 fan (and lurker as of late). | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | yah, too much lurkage, too little fanning | 18:58 |
| @pbcj | heh s/lurker/troll/ ? | 18:59 |
| SDuensin | I'll get back to fanning the flames once you ship 8 and I break it. :-P | 18:59 |
| SDuensin | Oh, I forgot to tell you guys. I did something horrible... | 19:02 |
| SDuensin | Been working in PHP! | 19:02 |
| @preaction | ooh awesome! i've always wanted to try php | 19:02 |
| @frodwith | Nothing wrong with php. Except that it's php. | 19:02 |
| SDuensin | lol | 19:02 |
| SDuensin | I'm actually enjoying it. | 19:03 |
| SDuensin | It's got some problems, but overall it's really easy to work with. | 19:03 |
| scrottie | a programming language created by a dude who doesn't know how to program. brilliant! | 19:14 |
| scrottie | hey pbcj. how did they catch you? | 19:14 |
| scrottie | midnight raid on your village? | 19:14 |
| @pbcj | burlap sack and a pillow full of oranges | 19:15 |
| scrottie | clever. and new. | 19:15 |
| @frodwith | Shows em who's boss and won't leave a mark. | 19:15 |
| @pbcj | lol | 19:15 |
| @pbcj | I'm among friends | 19:15 |
| @preaction | I'm a well-wisher, in that I don't wish you any specific harm. | 19:17 |
| @pbcj | as of this moment, I'm sure | 19:18 |
| @pbcj | when I start introducing bugs, however | 19:18 |
| @preaction | you can't do that, you will be physically incapable of it. i will ensure it. | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | we don't put bugs into WebGUI | 19:18 |
| @frodwith | see: sack of oranges | 19:19 |
| +perlDreamer | we put features with unforeseen consequences | 19:19 |
| @preaction | WebGUI doesn't have bugs | 19:19 |
| @pbcj | sorry.. "features" | 19:19 |
| scrottie | yeah, can't add bugs. the maggots and cockroaches feeding off of its rotten center defend their turf well. | 19:19 |
| @frodwith | Dynamically purposed features. These are features whose intended purpose changes according to what they actually do. | 19:19 |
| scrottie | and lots and lots of user error. | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | new company policy | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | in protest of the US'es fiscal and monetary policies, all employees will now be paid in Essentia | 19:22 |
| @frodwith | eh heh. heh. heh. | 19:22 |
| @frodwith | That's a real leg slapper colin >:| | 19:22 |
| * perlDreamer will try to stick to fixing bugs and writing tests in the future | 19:23 | |
| scrottie | hey, there is one employee who would be perfectly happy with that. | 19:23 |
| @frodwith | Maybe we should start paying him in essentia | 19:23 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6749937 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): No direct appending of URL's, since it breaks Prevent Proxy Cache. Also, i18n the buttons. Fixes bug #12051. - http://bit.ly/goix3z | 19:33 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf10de17 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): No direct appending of URL's, since it breaks Prevent Proxy Cache. Also, i18n the buttons. Fixes bug #12051. - http://bit.ly/fWfslf | 19:33 |
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| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r331ce02 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Update the default View Thing Data template to use the viewScreenTitle variable, and i18n the word "View". Update template docs to describe what viewScreenTitle really is. Fixes bug #12053. - http://bit.ly/iarTVd | 19:45 |
| CIA-98 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r770b768 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Update the default View Thing Data template to use the viewScreenTitle variable, and i18n the word "View". Update template docs to describe what viewScreenTitle really is. Fixes bug #12053. - http://bit.ly/eNFjr8 | 19:46 |
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| carogray | perldreamer: are you there? | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, I'm here carogray, what's up? | 21:40 |
| carogray | what do I need to do so William at KNOWMAD can do his thing? I have already sent in the public key via the support board/private message | 21:41 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Mar 01 00:00:12 2011 | ||
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