WebGUI irc logs from: 2011-02.log

--- Log opened Tue Feb 01 00:00:12 2011
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@preactionahh... so after 30 minutes i figure out that WebGUI can only upload files if you have JS enabled. so not through Mechanize...00:22
@preactionso now we'll add one that JS can override if it's enabled00:24
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elninoI saw that the 7.9 is going to use plack?02:21
elnino(If I remember correctly....)02:21
elninohow soon is 7.9 coming out as stable?02:22
@preactionyou mean 8?02:25
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elninopreaction.. sure.. version 8 -thats the one that patrick talked about during the conference? being able to run on "cheap" hosts?02:43
@preactionable, perhaps, just not well02:46
@preactionthis summer, most likely02:46
elninoI think this is a wonderful thing!!!! people will get hooked.  I think it's imporant that somehow we get linked in with cpanel, or make it cpanalable, alot of these companies use that, do you think that will be possible?02:48
@preactionit's possible, of course. will it be done? that's anybody's guess02:48
elninois that something that has to be written? or something we have to talk to cpanel people about?02:50
@preactiona cpanel plugin would just have to be written afaik02:51
@preactionbut webgui doesn't perform well under CGI, so you'd have to fix that too02:51
@preactionreally, that isn't my target audience anyway. i prefer the medium to large businesses02:52
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@preactionalso, timezones need to die. that is all.03:51
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CIA-78webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf077c28 / (2 files in 2 dirs): migrate EMS www_importEvents to FormBuilder (+9 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/dVPXUd04:39
@preactionEMS is hard to migrate04:41
@preactionHaarg: if you have a minute sometime, could you look at https://github.com/plainblack/webgui/commit/03f64cbf1a93b6cb6b24627d031bee7af077e522 and tell me if i'm doing something evil or wrong?04:41
@preactioni needed that commit for https://github.com/plainblack/webgui/commit/be3052ce6dadbd193a0a08ac2922761cdccaaf0104:42
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+perlDreamerpreaction: got time for some Underground CSS talk?04:44
@preactioni can try, go for it04:44
+perlDreamerthe CSS has a label : { display: block; } in it04:45
+perlDreamerthis is messing up radio boxes, check lists04:46
+perlDreamerfor fun, I removed it in Firebug, and everything looked fine on the site04:46
+perlDreamerand label doesn't seem to be used anywhere else04:46
+perlDreamersince you ported over the original design, any clue as to why that's in there?04:46
@preactionlabel is probably used everywhere, it is at least used in the new forms, the ones without tables04:46
@preactionand there it will need to be block04:47
@preactionis there a way to determine if it's a label for a checkbox or radio button and act accordingly?04:47
+perlDreamerI don't think so04:47
@preactioni.e. do we have a class name for the field type?04:48
@preactionthat might be a good idea, as otherwise we'll have problems in 804:49
@preactionthough for 7, it shouldn't matter, and for 8 we can fix it then04:49
@preactionwhich file is it in? i only edited the underground-webgui.css04:50
+perlDreamerit's in undeground.css04:50
@preactionthe other one is just straight from the source. if you want to change anything, add it to underground-webgui.css04:50
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8ae16ba / (8 files in 8 dirs): (log message trimmed)05:06
CIA-78webgui: Have the Calendar iCal feed pass along the timeZone of events. Fixes bug #12030.05:06
CIA-78webgui: Squashed commit of the following:05:06
CIA-78webgui: commit ce957db5311c7fb11c7d780b9f63c1b0adc17cda05:06
CIA-78webgui: Author: Colin Kuskie <colink@perldreamer.com>05:06
CIA-78webgui: Date: Mon Jan 31 19:00:23 2011 -080005:06
CIA-78webgui:  Changelog notice for the ical bugfix with timezones.05:06
+perlDreamergood thing squashed commits get truncated05:06
+perlDreamerCIA could have been kicked for flooding05:07
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r6b0d7c1 / (8 files in 8 dirs): (log message trimmed)05:08
CIA-78webgui: Have the Calendar iCal feed pass along the timeZone of events. Fixes bug #12030.05:08
CIA-78webgui: Squashed commit of the following:05:08
CIA-78webgui: commit ce957db5311c7fb11c7d780b9f63c1b0adc17cda05:08
CIA-78webgui: Author: Colin Kuskie <colink@perldreamer.com>05:08
CIA-78webgui: Date: Mon Jan 31 19:00:23 2011 -080005:08
CIA-78webgui:  Changelog notice for the ical bugfix with timezones.05:08
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rdc63a19 / lib/WebGUI/ICal.pm : Add POD for WebGUI::ICal - http://bit.ly/fK4vWr05:26
+perlDreamerpreaction, I just outdated your newly released WRE05:26
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7b700d0 / lib/WebGUI/ICal.pm : Add POD for WebGUI::ICal - http://bit.ly/gEWkqS05:26
@preactioneh, it doesn't have everything anyway, it was more the ability to compile cpan modules that was added05:27
+perlDreamerthe dependencies weren't upgraded?05:28
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@preactionthere was no real release05:38
@preactioni mean, i did what i could, but they haven't changed since koen changed them, unless they failed to compile, then i updated them05:38
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CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8d36e79 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.21 release - http://bit.ly/evw1rl06:35
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r94b6f89 / lib/WebGUI/ICal.pm : no parent yet, use base instead. - http://bit.ly/gA0rf207:05
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf107468 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.22 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/gMEE6l07:18
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Haargpreaction, re: the change you asked about, i don't like it but i don't know if there are any other options.10:31
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SDuensinGreetings from the frozen midwest!16:40
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CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reb8fa8f / lib/WebGUI/ICal.pm : no parent yet, use base instead. - http://bit.ly/e4n8yO18:22
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scrottie013,000 lines of garbage in Log::Log4perl.23:39
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--- Day changed Wed Feb 02 2011
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CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5b07ab3 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm): Allow anyone who can edit an asset to create a shortcut to it. - http://bit.ly/euGs2i00:27
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rdca29b9 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm): Allow anyone who can edit an asset to create a shortcut to it. - http://bit.ly/ifbc5a00:27
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CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra0867dd / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Fork/ProgressBar.pm): Show different styles based on whether a user is in admin mode, or not. Fixes bug #12032. - http://bit.ly/evxV8k02:39
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+perlDreamerpreaction, is 3 weeks long enough to wait for a reply to a bug?02:44
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scrottie0hey socks!02:58
sockshey scrottie!02:58
socksI done got disconnected over thar.02:58
scrottie0looks like something went wrong with the 'new server tab' bit02:58
socksI clicked the wrong menu option.02:59
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socksCan you remind me of the whole sequence for weehours again?02:59
socksoh no, wait, nevermind02:59
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elninohey. What does mod_proxy do in regards to webgui?06:47
@preactionserves static content quickly and efficiently06:47
elninostatic content? like cached?06:47
@preactionanything in /extras and /uploads06:49
elninooh. yep, that makes sense. Thanks.06:50
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+perlDreamerbartjol: people are saying mean things about the Dutch again18:03
+bartjolwho are?18:03
+perlDreamerAP news18:05
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5c57e33 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix rendering issues with radio buttons and checkbox lists in the Underground style. - http://bit.ly/fVZHOI18:21
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * ra3db5dc / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix rendering issues with radio buttons and checkbox lists in the Underground style. - http://bit.ly/ibxmju18:22
+bartjolstrange people18:31
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CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7cb1fa9 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Update versions of *::Packer to get rid of regexp variables that slow down all regexen. Fixes bug #11704. - http://bit.ly/e8YhJe21:01
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8da15e2 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Update versions of *::Packer to get rid of regexp variables that slow down all regexen. Fixes bug #11704. - http://bit.ly/gVphNl21:03
+perlDreamerpreaction: if I ask a question back on a bug report, and get no answer back for 2-3 weeks, can I close it out?21:10
+perlDreamerI'd like to have that on the board itself, but it's locked by someone with an uncommitted version tag21:12
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+perlDreamerfrodwith, you rock!22:18
+perlDreamerFork/ProgressBar is exactly what I need22:18
+perlDreamernow, if it was only written in Perl so I could understand it22:18
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@preactionand with this push, all the EMS www_ forms are tested. 23:26
CIA-78webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r0d45c66 / t/supporting_collateral/ems_events.csv : forgot test collateral file - http://bit.ly/gRccHr23:26
CIA-78webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r0a67593 / (2 files in 2 dirs): migrate EMS manageRegistrant to FormBuilder - http://bit.ly/gMktjk23:26
@preactionthe work continues!23:26
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scrottie0hrm.  HandlerSocker is almost twice as fast as DBI for doing Asset::assetDbProperties, even with multiple round trip requests to get data from each table.00:37
scrottie0too bad it doesn't do compound keys.00:38
@preactionhmm... if we added a versionId, it wouldn't need a compound key. versionId would be unique00:39
@preaction100% speedup is something worth fighting for00:40
scrottie0I don't like your choice of name but technically that would work.00:40
@preactionwe've been kicking around the idea for a while, the asset table would refer to the currentRevisionId and then assetData would have revisionId and so would the other tables00:40
scrottie0that feels a lot cleaner.00:41
@preactionless work than doing a subselect, more sane, and apparently easier to translate to even better stuff like this thing00:41
scrottie0call it an 'instance', implying a specific instance of a given asset, maybe.00:42
scrottie0version vs revision is just going to bring about confusion.00:42
@preactionit'd be revision, sorry. my other system uses "version" instead of "revision"00:43
@preactionrevisionId, and currentRevisionId00:43
scrottie0https://github.com/scrottie/webgui/commit/ca454ecdf73974e0df20efba6e307e5399ea6de5 # fwiw00:52
@preactiondanke. i'll add it to my new list of stuff for the future00:53
@preactionis handlersocket easy to install?00:54
scrottie0I found it easy to be, yeah.00:54
@preactionif it's performance we're going for, i don't want it to be optional, but if it can't be relied on across our supported infra, we'll have to make it conditional00:55
@preactionwhich i suppose isn't a problem if we keep one socket open for the server process and then if we don't have it, go back to SQL00:56
@preactionwhich sounds like something that should be hidden away, deep and dark, in some instantiation routine00:56
scrottie0you're going to need a DBI connection for anything non-trivial anyway.00:56
@preactionright, but we may or may not have the handlersocket connection00:57
scrottie0using one of two (or more) assetDbProperties implementies and optimizing some WebGUI::SQL cases seems to make sense.00:57
@preactionso in order of performance, we have the cache (post-processed db data), handlersocket (nosql db data), dbi (sql data)00:57
scrottie0er, conditionally optimizing them.00:58
@preactionyeah, it'll be well-hidden and DTRT as possible00:58
@preactionjust makes me wish we had a standard Model class that could hide this for everything. groups/users would be even better for performance, they're accessed multiple times per asset00:58
@preactionbut anyway, wishes and fishes00:59
scrottie0yeah.  sometimes it seems like WebGUI's mission in life is to compute SQL.00:59
@preactionyeah, marketing guys call that "Data-driven"00:59
scrottie0I don't see any good way of abstracting that out.00:59
@preactionnot in our current situation, no01:00
scrottie0you could do the "template class" thing and push the implementation of the data fetching methods to the subclasses and use factories to come up with the right one... but that would be like snorting kittens.01:02
scrottie0 http://i.imgur.com/4t9Jd.gif01:02
@preactionmmm kitten huffing. the orange ones fuck you up REAL GOOD01:02
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+perlDreamerscrottie0: how does HandlerSocket get username and password for the db?01:48
@preactionprobably doesn't. localhost only i'd suspect02:09
@preactionlike memcached does it02:12
+perlDreamerit must ride on top of an existing socket02:14
+perlDreamerletting DBI make the connection and authenticate it02:14
@preactionno, creates its own socket02:14
+perlDreamerso on a shared hosting account, you could snarf someone else's database?02:14
@preactionif you had shell access, probably02:16
@preactionbut if you had a shell, you could get at a lot of things02:16
+perlDreamerbut there's a PHP version of this thing, too02:17
@preactioneh, doesn't concern me. doesn't seem like a shared hosting kind of thing anyway02:17
@preactionso we should probably make it optional just for that reason02:17
@preactionbut if you had it, performance baby!02:18
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scrottie0sorry, wandered into another window.  yeah, there's no auth.03:17
scrottie0if you can connect to the port, you have unlimited read/write privs.03:17
scrottie0it isn't even restricted to localhost.03:18
scrottie0hrm, this is kinda begging for just a little less minimalism on it03:18
scrottie0it reads some parameters from my.conf.  the interfaces to listen on should be among them, but as far as I know, aren't.  the thing is on github.  I say we fork it.03:20
scrottie0oh, heh, the XS is C++.03:36
scrottie0and they have their own string package named after their company, DeNA.03:37
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elninoI don't have a webgui server accessible to me anymore,  but I need to give instruction to someone who does.... is wre.conf in /data/wre/etc?06:33
elninoand if I change any of the settings in the wre.conf, how do I make those chagnes effective?06:36
scrottie0 /data/wre/etc/wre.conf06:37
scrottie0don't know.  I'm guessing the commands that use the wre.conf look at it when you invoke them...06:38
scrottie0sorry, on my way out06:38
elninothat's ok. Thanks scrottie006:38
elninohi. is there anyone at webgui that could figure out what hte new urls for the following may possibly be?06:48
elninoI don't know if those were links to a forum, or documentation or what.06:48
elninoah. it appears that there used to be a install/upgrade help forum.. Where did it go?06:51
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym18:47
* scrottie0 reads HandlerSocket source code...19:07
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CIA-78webgui: Paul Driver master * r4a5196a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetExportHtml.pm): fixed #12033: scratch variable problems during export - http://bit.ly/fTsWzT21:51
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TrexHey folks. I have a question about group caching for visitors: any chance of disabling it, or is that feature too deeply ingrained in how WebGUI works?22:39
TrexI'd be happy with either disabling it on a site-wide basis, though per-server would be OK for my current situation.22:39
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TrexSorry...was trying the latest Trillian for IRC on a new laptop, but seemed to be having problems.22:44
TrexDid my question about caching and visitor groups make it through?22:44
@preactionwhy would the visitor group be cached? visitor = !registered user22:44
@preactionor do you mean the site's browser cache for visitors?22:45
TrexSorry...I guess I wasn't clear enough -- the groups that visitors may belong to, via scratch variables, for example.22:45
@preactionin later versions, there's a global cache timeout setting that you can set22:46
@preactiona scratch-only group should probably set the cache timeout to something small22:46
TrexWhen I was chatting with you folks about the visitor group bug that was fixed a handful of versions ago, one of you said that visitors' group memberships are cached by default for 1 minute...if I recall correct.22:46
Haargwhat is the problem you are having that you want to solve?22:47
TrexPerhaps this will help illustrate the problem: http://dev.sofawolf.com/22:47
TrexThe "Show adult content" link in the upper right should allow visitors to toggle into and out of a group that allows them to opt in/out of viewing certain content.22:48
TrexIt works great for authenticated users, who are shown the group-add and group-delete links, but most of our site visitors are going to be visitors.22:48
TrexFor them, I'm using a scratch variable, but it only seems to work about 1/2 the time.22:49
Trex(Don't worry, there is no adult content to be viewed on this page. It's just a demo)22:49
TrexThe graphic to the right should switch to show whether the user has opted to view adult content.22:50
Haargwhat are you using to detect the scratch value?22:50
TrexThe scratch value is used to allow the visitor to join a group. So the group membership of the visitor's session determines what is viewed.22:51
Trex...also, I should mention that because I thought group memberships for visitors were cached for a minute, I have added a bit of javascript that hides the link to toggle back for a minute, to avoid confusion for users.22:52
Trex(I should also note that I've checked the cache settings on the group itself and also the snippet that addes the toggle link and graphic to the template.)22:55
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Haargah, scratch users.  never noticed that feature before somehow.22:57
TrexI'd be happy to try another approach, but since WebGUI already has this great buit-in ability to manage what you see on the page (including sub-secitons of the page) via groups, I planned on using the group-to-view property to manage what people see, and then let them opt in/out by joining/leaving the group.23:01
TrexHowever, you can't use the group-add and group-delete macros for vistors, which is why I went to scratch variables.23:01
@preactioni'd build a custom macro that would use two groups: one for registered users, one for visitors using session scratch and having a tiny cache timeout23:02
Haargthere should be a cache timeout setting on each group23:03
Haargyou should be able to edit that for the groups you are dealing with23:04
TrexI have the cache for the current group set to 0 seconds. It shouldn't be caching anything.23:04
@preactionthe page caches its contents for 60 seconds23:04
TrexI'm also digging through the IRC logs to see if I can find where someone said that visitor groups are cached for a certain amount of time, regardles...23:04
@preactionand the site probably is using the browser cache stuff23:04
Trex...ah, that may be what I was thinking of...23:04
TrexPreaction: Can you explain how this macro would be used? Are you talking about something that would wrap around content and take over WebGUI's group-to-view capabilities? Or are you just talking about the toggle link to opt in/out?23:07
+perlDreamerTrex: In the Page Layout, content is cached for 60 seconds23:07
@preactionjust the toggle link. visitors would be in one group, registered users in another group. make a top-level group for "Adult Content" that contains the two groups and you should be fine23:08
+perlDreamerso it's not a group membership cache in that case23:08
@preactionthough i'm not sure how cascading cache timeouts work23:08
@preactionif one group has 0 cache, but is contained by a group that has 10 minutes, with the cache last 10 minutes?23:08
@preactionmaybe our cache strategy is just wrong. maybe we should keep a cache of group memberships by session instead23:09
@preactioni do want to eventually promote more anonymous interaction with websites, esp. in the case of Forums23:10
TrexperlDreamer: when you say content is cached for 60s in the Layout, is that per user session, or in general? If, for example, one visitor clicked the opt-in button, would the cached content be seen by other visitors, or just that visitor's session?23:11
Haargpreaction, group memberships are cached per session for visitors23:11
@preactionah, nm then23:12
Haargbut stuff like scratch variables don't know to invalidate that cache23:12
Haargthe page caching strategy is wrong, but that's not as easy to solve23:12
@preactionbut the custom macro could invalidate the cache as needed, which would eliminate the need for the two groups and allow you to set a long cache timeout23:13
TrexWhat about allowing visitors to join a group directly, with the GroupAdd and GroupDelete macros? Would that bypass any of these issues? Or is there something fundamental about visitors that you can't have them joining groups that way?23:14
@preactionvisitor is one user id. if visitor joins a group, all people who are "visitor" are joined to that group23:15
@preactionvisitor is not a real user, it's a representation of the state of not being a user, which is useful when you need the not-logged-in people to be able to do things23:15
Haargfrom the sound of it, what you are doing is already taking care of the group membership problem23:15
Haargi remember one problem i was having that resulted in being logged in as visitor.  that was an odd one.23:16
Trexpreaction: I'm willing to try the macro, but I'm not familiar with the caching API at all. Is there a straight forward way to clear out the cache for a particular session?23:18
@preaction$group->deleteCache iirc23:18
@preactionor uncache or something23:18
TrexThat would clear the cache for the whole group at once?23:19
@preactionso your macro would be something like "ShowGroupToggle(groupId,html_to_enable,html_to_disable);"23:19
@preactionhm... crap. just being a macro wouldn't work would it? you'd need a page to go to that could perform the actual action23:19
@preactionisn't that what the self-adding groups operations do?23:20
@preactionbut it adds the user, not the session...23:20
Haargit still sounds more likely that the page caching is causing your problems23:20
Haargand even if it isn't it will likely cause problems once the group issues are sorted23:22
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TrexHaarg: Yes, that seems likely. It's great fun trying to figure out whether caching issues are on the browser or server end, too.23:25
TrexThe 60s Page Layout caching -- that's just for the visitors, right?23:27
Haarg60 second page layout caching is for visitors only.  if there are any query parameters, it will not be used.  it is cached for the entire site, so different users coming the the same address within 60 seconds will see the same content.23:29
Haargso your two options are to not use page layouts, or to turn on prevent proxy caching (ugh)23:30
TrexOh fun! I did that (prevent proxy caching) a while back -- caused more confusion among users than it prevented.23:31
Trex...and your comment about caching to users coming from the same address explains some of my confusion when testing the toggle link with two different browsers on the same computer. I wondered if that might be the case.23:32
TrexI was going to ask about content not viewed in a page layout, like Products, for example. Those would not suffer the same problem?23:33
Haargif they are viewed on their own they aren't effected23:34
TrexHmmm...there are some parts of the site that would be a challenge to implement without page layouts.23:38
Haarghow is this site hosted?23:40
TrexWhen you say that Page Layouts are cached, does that mean just the Page Layout container (but not the content) is cached, or is the whole page as rendered cached, if the page happens to use the Page Layout asset?23:42
Haargthe entire rendered page23:42
Haargah.  i don't know the timetable for a stable 7.10 release or a hosting upgrade, but you might convince someone to add some simple options like turning off the 60 second page cache.23:43
TrexI have some karma to spend. :)23:44
TrexWould it be easier or better to make disabling of the 60 second cache conditional -- only for visitors in certain groups, or only visitors for whom scratch variables have been set?23:45
Haargit would give you more power but would add a lot of complexity23:45
Haargand calculating groups is potentially expensive, where the point of the cache is to make those kinds of page accesses really simple.23:46
Haargan option to disable the page cache would be pretty simple to add if they would accept it.23:47
TrexI presume that the caching was added in the first place because it improved efficiency of sites --especially busy ones...23:47
TrexDo you think it would have much of a performance hit on a generally low-traffic site?23:48
Haargprobably not23:48
Haargpreaction would know when 7.10 will go stable and if it is likely to make it onto hosting servers in a time frame that works for you23:49
@preaction7.10 goes stable when 8.0 goes beta23:49
@preactionso, Summer23:49
Haargi was thinking 7.10 had been around for a while but i haven't been keeping track23:50
TrexIt's not an option for 7.9 because it would break the API?23:50
Haargit's a new feature, and new features don't go into stable releases23:51
@preactionit has been around for a while23:51
TrexI guess I'll go ahead and put in an RFE for it and dump in my karma...23:53
TrexOur site is still undergoing development, but I'm hoping to take it live by spring.23:54
Haargso did you verify that the group cache timeout on all of the groups you are working with is set to 0?23:54
TrexPB folks: is this something that we could perhaps contract out to get a 7.9 patch for, if added to 7.10?23:54
Haarga change like that would apply to 7.9 just as easily as it would to 7.1023:55
Haargit's just not the kind of thing that gets added to a stable release23:55
TrexSo once implemented, we could look at the diffs and monkeypatch until 7.10?23:56
scrottie0Trex, how much access to this site?23:56
@preactionif you're installing prerelease features, you need your own server. we don't monkeypatch our shared servers23:56
scrottie0preaction answered my question.23:57
Trexpreaction: we have a VM, so I could handle the monkeypatching myself.23:57
TrexI forgot that not everyone hosted by PB has the same arrangement, so I forgot to mention that.23:57
scrottie0or not.23:58
Haargin that case, yeah it would be pretty easy to backport a change like that23:58
TrexOK, cool...so going all the way back to the issue that brought up this discussion, once page layouts are no longer cached, I believe my problems should be resolved...23:59
--- Day changed Fri Feb 04 2011
Haargnot quite i don't think00:00
TrexVisitors can join/leave the group using scratch variables, and authenticated users can join/leave the same (or another) group.00:00
Haargthe basic approach you are using should work00:00
Haargbut something isn't working quite right on your site00:00
@preactioni wouldn't ask for a contract to just change the page caching. i'd ask for a contract to do exactly what you need. it may not be the page caching at all00:00
Haargeven aside from the page caching00:00
TrexWell, I haven't tested the link on a non-page-layout page. Hold on a few while I do that.00:01
Haargif you go the contract route it would probably be best to just get something that is exactly what you want, yeah00:01
Haargthe page caching doesn't happen if there are any query variables00:02
TrexAll the other content on the site is locked down for the moment, so I'll have to find a product or something, make it visible to everyone and test the toggle link.00:02
scrottie0or if isExporting is set in scratch ;)00:02
Haargso when you click the link, the next page has the ?op=setScratch;scratchName=adult_visitor;scratchValue=1 stuff on it00:02
Haargso it won't use the 60 second cache for that page view00:03
Haargand the link still doesn't seem to be toggling correctly00:03
scrottie0Trex, are you confident in Perl source code files on this server?  I could describe a manual change to disable caching.00:03
Haargso there are a few things it could be.  it might be that one of the groups you are using has a cache timeout > 0 set.00:04
TrexHaarg: I think I misunderstood something you said earlier about the caching being unaffected by the query string, then.00:04
scrottie0er, disable caching on the Layout.00:04
Haargor it could be something in how you are adding it to the page00:04
Haarglike if you were assetproxying in a snippet or something00:04
Haargif there is a query string, it doesn't use the page cache00:05
Trexscrottie0: I have monkeypatched before, so I'd be willing to give your manual change a look.00:05
TrexHaarg: the links are part of a snippet...but I've checked that the snipped has cache set to 0 seconds.00:06
Haargso as long as there is a query string (like when clicking the link a bunch to toggle it), that part of the problem won't show up.  of course, an actual visitor will view pages without a query string so it still needs to be solved.00:07
scrottie0in /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm, search for "sub www_view".  a few lines in is a comment "slashdot / burst protection hack" and then an if statement after that.  inside of the if's ( ), right before the closing ), add:  && 000:07
scrottie0on its own line.00:07
scrottie0that should kill page layout caching, site-wide.00:07
* perlDreamer shudders. One does not lightly kill WebGUI!00:08
scrottie0one doesn't lightly kill caching either.00:08
Haargwhat scrottie0 is describing might be a good way to test stuff if nothing else00:08
TrexHmmm...the snippet is placed within the crumb trail navigation menu, which is what generates the "Home Demo" link on the left...00:09
TrexSo it's a snippet in a navigation template in a page layout. I'd forgotten it got that deep.00:09
TrexNavigations don't have a cache setting you can manage.00:10
Haargwhat is url to that snippet?00:10
TrexThere's a modproxy rule to shunt everything except the home page through https at the moment.00:14
Trex...and a self-signed certificate, so your browser may squack at you.00:14
Haargso as long as that snippet has its cache timeout set to 0 you should be able to use that to test even without doing anything to the perl code00:16
TrexThe image is outside the snippet because this is only for visitors. Authenticated users have different links that show. And then which image is displayed depends on the GroupText macro00:16
TrexHaarg: if anything, your suggestion to look at the snippet alone has made it much easier to track what's going on with the HTTP headers.00:32
TrexWhen the query string is one that the browser has seen before,  it sends a query with an "If-Modified-Since", and the server returns a 304 Content Not Modified.00:33
+perlDreameryou could turn on prevent proxy cache00:34
+perlDreamerbut i'll give you ugly URLS00:34
TrexperlDreamer: that's kind of what I'm testing now, only adding random query parameters only to the query string that sets the scratch values, leaving the rest of the site's links alone.00:35
Trex...but turning on preventing proxy cache is a good idea to try first.00:35
+perlDreamerya, and it will do that typing for you00:35
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scrottie0Trex, http://slowass.net/~scott/tmp/nocache.diff01:26
* scrottie0 keeps getting distracted and has to go afk now =|01:26
TrexThanks for your help, scrottie0!01:26
TrexI'm still digging away at things here...leaning back to groups being cached for visitors, actually...01:27
scrottie0caching is something I have strong mixed feelings about.01:28
scrottie0preaction, comments about adding yet another knob to 7.10?01:37
@preactionis that also bypassing the burst cache thing?01:40
sbaurI know I've solved this problem before, but I can't remember how at the moment. I'm getting the error "Response for www.csumathsuccess.org.conf-pbcron0000000000000004 was redirected." This is on a dev server I just setup, not my live server, so I'm sure it has something to do with my setup. running spectre with --run --debug did not produce any helpful output02:09
sbaurI've gone over my site.modproxy and site.modperl conf files, but didn't see anything that wasn't correct. Any ideas?02:13
sbaurspectre.pl --test has no problems either02:13
sbaurthis is still on 7.5.4002:14
sbauroh well. I'll look at it in the morning again. Maybe my brain will work then.02:16
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TrexOK, this might be instructive: https://dev.sofawolf.com/visitor_adult_links_demo102:21
TrexThe top link is the same one I was showing you before, only with a noCache parameter added manually, the second line uses the GroupText macro to show whether or not you are in the group that the scratch variable is supposed to join you to...02:22
TrexThe third line shows the scratch value itself, and the last line has a link with a noCache parameter to allow you to refresh the information without (as much) fear of browser caching.02:23
TrexThe content is in a snippet that has caching set to 0 seconds.02:23
TrexIf you click the toggle link and the scratch value changes, but the group does not, start a stop watch and refresh the page with the bottom link.02:25
TrexAfter a minute from when the group membership was initially set, you'll see that the group and scratch value come back into synch.02:26
+perlDreamerscrottie0, your patch also needs an update sub02:26
+perlDreamerotherwise, it's going to puke when you try to write to the db02:26
TrexWhat's interesting is that I have seen a similar delay when logged in, though once the group membership is set, it seems to become permanent, and destroying the session variable doesn't remove you from the group.02:28
TrexCould it be that there's a 60 second cache set on session variable-based groups in general?02:29
+perlDreamerTrex, you should be able to build a simple test to validate that.02:36
+perlDreamercreate a user to get a userId02:36
+perlDreamercreate a group that works with scratch variables02:37
+perlDreamercheck group membership for the user, it should say "not in group"02:37
+perlDreamergive the session that scratch variable02:37
+perlDreamercheck again, should say, "in group"02:37
+perlDreamerthen, remove it, and check a third time02:37
+perlDreamerif group caching has been disabled, it should say, "not in group"02:37
TrexUnfortunately, I have not had a chance to learn testing in WebGUI (if you're talking about writing actual command line perl tests), and I don't have time to learn before I have to leave.02:41
TrexWhen you say "if group caching has been disabled" are you talking about the cache setting in the group's settings?02:42
scrottie0from what I'm reading, layout only has one cache on content.02:42
+perlDreamerso, when you create the group, set it to 002:42
scrottie0that is the burst cache.  unless I'm misunderstanding what is what.02:42
scrottie0er, re: preaction02:43
TrexWell, I can assure you that the group in question has had the cache setting for 0 seconds (OK, it defaults to "Year(s)") this whole time.02:44
TrexSo if you're saying that scratch-filter-based groups should also follow this setting, then we're talking about a potential bug?02:44
+perlDreamereither that or we don't understand the group code as well as we think we do02:45
+perlDreamerthat happens with collaboratively written code02:45
Trex*nod* Understood02:45
+perlDreameralso, a well written and documented test is about the best way I can think of to get immediate attention02:45
+perlDreamerbecause I don't have to set up a site02:45
+perlDreamerI don't have to reverse engineer what you ahve02:45
+perlDreameryou hand me a piece of code, and we go from there02:45
TrexWhat if I set up a site on the demo server that replicated my current setup and left the default admin password? You could at least go in and check out the configurations until the site got recycled.02:47
+perlDreamerthen I have to look at it within 24 hours02:47
+perlDreamerand I have to remotely log into the server and restart it to get new debug code going02:47
TrexYes, that is the limitation with that.02:47
+perlDreamerand, if we write the test, it stays fixed forever02:48
+perlDreamerbecause when somebody commits code that breaks tests, then I start raising flags and sending emails and PM's02:48
TrexHow late will you be online? Will you still be here in a couple hours?02:49
TrexAnd would you be willing to help get me started with writing tests? I promise not to ask too many stupid questions. ;)02:49
TrexOK...then let's plan on that. Thank you for your assistance...now and in the future.02:50
+perlDreameryou bet :)02:50
TrexAll right, catch you all later then!02:51
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TrexI have returned...hopefully to learn something about the magic arts of WebGUI tests.04:09
* perlDreamer is back!04:43
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elninowhere can I find the irc logs? electricity went out, and I don't know if people answered my question from last night. =(04:45
TrexHeh. I was just there: http://www.mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/2011-02.log.html04:45
elninothanks trex04:46
elninonope... so.. it appears that there used to be a install/upgrade help forum.. Where did it go?04:47
+perlDreamerit was merged into etc04:51
+perlDreamerjust one forum, more attention for your question04:51
elninowell, I linked to two threads to that forum from my wiki and those pages seem to be gone.04:52
+perlDreameryou'll probably need to update the URLs then04:52
elninoI'd like to, hence the question. =)04:52
elninoI'll look for them there, or maybe it will be as easy as replaceing /install/upgrade with etc.  04:53
elninofingers crossed04:53
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elninook plainblack. I think you're going to get a agency customer. Don't fail me..  =) 05:46
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elninostill trying to find http://www.webgui.org/install/upgrade_help/sslsessioncache-help - where did it go? were some forums archived?06:09
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+patspamhey elnino06:22
elninoway to go with the plasck thing. I'm so excited for webgui!06:22
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+bartjolso, fixed another issue in backup.pl14:56
+bartjolaccept my pull request!15:09
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+bartjolis it?16:48
+bartjolbut.... tomorrow fosdem16:48
SDuensinVery cool.  I knew it sounded familiar.16:51
SDuensinSadly, I'm from the USA where we like to arrest people for sharing knowledge.16:51
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+bartjolaha, mmm, I should be carefull then if I go to the wuc this year17:01
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+bartjolSDuensin: oh, and you can have the premiere of my supercool renewed and improved backup script17:25
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+bartjolperlDreamer: goodmorning17:32
+bartjolsubmitted a bugfix again17:32
+perlDreamergood morning, bartjol17:32
+perlDreamergood man!17:32
+perlDreamerI think next week I'll work on a "core-only" wre release17:33
+perlDreamerwhere we fix bugs in scripts17:33
+perlDreamerbut don't update anything else17:33
+bartjolok, well I changed File.pm17:33
+bartjolto supress tar warnings17:33
+perlDreamerI'll merge it on Monday17:33
+bartjoldo you agree with the bug status, btw?17:34
+perlDreamerwe'll need to test it with and without absolute paths in the backupDir to check it though17:36
+perlDreameror have you done that already?17:36
+bartjolwell, I thought preload.custom only had absolute paths17:38
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+bartjolit depends on how it is loaded whether it is necessary for WebGUI17:39
+bartjolbut the backup script onlyy takes paths beginning with /17:39
+bartjolso I can inform you that it doesn't work on relative paths17:40
+bartjolthat was by design17:40
+bartjolit will even skip it the line begins with a whitespace17:40
+bartjol$line =~ /^\// is what is casuing that17:43
+perlDreamermaybe we better step through this bit by bit17:44
+perlDreamerwhat's the original problem?17:44
+perlDreameryou start explaining, and I'll eat this breakfast which is sitting next to me17:44
+bartjolthat the custom dirs cannot be backupped17:44
+bartjolwith the default backup script17:45
+bartjolso I added a method to backup.pl17:45
+bartjolwhich reads the lines in preload.custom17:45
+bartjoland then backups that dirs17:46
+bartjoland in preload.custom there are commented lines, so I have to separate lines that should be taken into account and those who don't17:47
+perlDreamerthe git commit that is posted only shows 2 changed lines of code that handle a new absPath variable17:47
+perlDreamerthat's why I'm confused17:48
+perlDreamerthat, and the lack of breakfast ;)17:48
+bartjolthe rest is in https://github.com/BartJol/wrebuild/blob/master/wre/sbin/backup.pl17:49
+perlDreamerit's all right :)17:49
+bartjolI thought backup.pl was also in that commit\17:49
+perlDreamerhaving backup.pl read preload.custom is a great idea though17:49
+perlDreamerwhy don't you submit it in a separate ticket17:50
+perlDreamerand we'll put both of them in?17:50
+bartjolwell, I don't see them separate17:53
+bartjolfile.pm change was needed for the backup.pl script in the new state17:53
+bartjolso, I can add a commit to the bug report17:53
+perlDreamerI get nightly emails full of "removing / from paths" during backups17:54
+perlDreamerso I think they could be separate17:54
+perlDreamerbut, in any case, please open a separate ticket for the preload.custom stuff17:54
+perlDreamerfor tracking17:54
+bartjolI just see to much connection17:54
+bartjolI create a problem with my solution, so I have to include that second problem as part of the first :)17:55
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+bartjolbut the tar method can use abs paths from now, which might cause some other inconvenience-fixes17:56
+perlDreamerthat's why I was asking about the testing17:56
+bartjolok, I'll throw in another ticket17:56
+bartjolyou can't really mix it for a mehtod that does abolute and relative paths17:57
+bartjolok, added an extra bug report18:00
+perlDreameryou rock!18:01
+perlDreameryou're awesome18:01
+perlDreameryou should take the rest of the day off and go sailing18:01
+bartjolthere is to much wind here18:02
+bartjolwell I fix my own problems and share my solutions18:03
+bartjoland, most important: I am more than my terminals (apparently)18:03
+perlDreamerI always thought your terminal was /dev/pts/018:04
+bartjolit is an inside joke18:04
+bartjolbetween me and Andy18:04
+bartjolstrangly enough he isn't online18:05
+perlDreamerit's a bad time for Australian peoples18:14
+bartjolit is a good time for aussies: beertime!18:14
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scrottie0skiing got cancelled.  bah.19:44
@frodwithhey perlDreamer, I wonder if I could bother you for a favor19:45
+perlDreamerwhatcha need, sir?19:45
@frodwithgetShortcutByCriteria doesn't seem to have any tests at all19:46
@frodwithand I'm working on some code that needs to touch it19:46
@frodwithcould you maybe write some tests for it?19:46
+perlDreamerwhen do you need them?19:46
+perlDreamerand what do you need to do it?19:46
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daviddelikat1very cool: http://www.amazon.com/ProMini-Wireless-Bluetooth-Keyboard-TouchPad/dp/B003ZJEUBI/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1296947501&sr=1-401:14
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xdangerzomg! new Debian stable released =)21:45
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Gettyi got now 100< of the webgui marketing flyer here ;)00:37
Gettyawesome layout :) like it00:37
Gettyok not really hundred, but 30-4000:38
Gettythe ones left from the fosdem, so to spread them on the regional events00:38
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elninodid the packers win?05:25
elninoI'm assuming you are in WI05:27
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elninogood nite06:08
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+perlDreamerpatspam, what did you do with BartJol?17:25
+patspamhey perlDreamer!17:35
+patspamanyone else running irssi+screen?17:36
+patspamI just switched, so that I can stay connected17:36
+patspamhaven't figured out how to get it to notify me when I get mentioned yet..17:37
+perlDreamerI've always used gaim/pidgin17:37
+perlDreameralthough, preaction may have a setup like that17:38
* perlDreamer is about to run kids to school, so expect some delays in responses17:38
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+perlDreamerall righty17:55
+perlDreamerkids are at school17:56
+perlDreamerwith lunches17:56
+perlDreamerand clothes17:56
sbaurand so ends another episode of Successful Parenting17:56
Haargi prefer using a gui irc client so i use znc to stay connected continually.18:01
Haargand also on my phone the irc client works a lot better than ssh/screen would19:00
@preactionpatspam: i hear irssi has a proxy feature like znc or dircproxy so that you can connect to your irssi with a gui irc client and get those notifications19:37
@preactionotherwise, there's a Desktop::Notify perl module19:37
sbaurcan anyone point me at an example of a webgui template toolkit template using an INCLUDE?19:45
+perlDreamersbaur, are you asking for something outside of the TT docs?19:46
+perlDreameror do you think there's a problem with doing it in WebGUI?19:46
@preactionare you trying to include a file or another asset?19:49
sbaurstill learning about TT. I think we want to include another asset, but probably would need to know how to do files as well19:50
@preactionfrodwith is the one who knows how to include assets, he wrote a plugin for it19:51
sbaurif both are possible19:51
+perlDreamerwouldn't the good ol' fashioned assetProxy macro work for including another asset?19:52
@preactionno, because macros are processed after template variables. include means "process this as a template"19:52
@preactionbut i'm not seeing it in his cpan list19:53
@frodwiththat's because I never put it on cpan19:53
@preactionwell then you suck and i hate you19:53
+perlDreamerthe number of WebGUI related modules of cpan is similar to 1/X19:53
@frodwithbecause it uses padwalker to walk the call stack looking for a webgui session19:53
@frodwithand it's a really ugly hack19:53
@preactionit's like the Switch.pm module, it'll work and generate interest so we can decide if we want something better19:54
+perlDreamersounds like a virtue #3 violation19:54
Haargit would be pretty simple to have WebGUI's TT module stick the session into the stash to allow TT plugins access to it19:56
@frodwithyes it would19:57
+perlDreamerI thought we didn't want that, though?19:57
+perlDreamerotherwise, template users would get access to the database19:57
+perlDreamerusernames, passwords, etc.19:57
@frodwithnot available as a template variable19:57
Haargno, underscore prefixed variables aren't accessible19:57
Haargif you stick the session in as _webgui_session, template users can't get to it, but a plugin like frodwith's could19:58
+perlDreamerthat's cool19:58
@preactioni'm down with that, if frodwith wants to use that method instead of padwalker20:04
@frodwithwell, could do that and fallback on the padwalker thing20:04
@preactioncould, i suppose sbaur is running a rather old version of webgui20:05
@preactionbut she could also just install the new template parser as well20:05
+perlDreameror she could upgrade20:05
Haargor use monkey patching as a fallback.  not sure which is worse.20:05
sbaurindeed i am20:05
sbaurworking on the upgrade process, really (and yes, i realize i've been saying that for a long time, but custom code's a bitch)20:06
+perlDreameryes.  It gets easier with good tests, but still not easy20:07
sbaurespecially custom code that started life in the 5 series20:07
sbaurso any examples of INCLUDE with files, since assets seems to be a major pain :-)20:07
Haargi really wish javascript had a profiler as good as nytprof20:08
sbaurjust checked the 7.10.8 beta code and didn't find anything. Not conversant in github, so not sure how to search the 8 codebase20:10
+perlDreamersbaur, nothing in the core is moved over to TT yet20:10
+perlDreamerit was one of the features that was dropped last year20:10
+perlDreamerdue to scheduling issues20:10
+perlDreamerwe so want to be on TT20:11
+perlDreamermakes life much easier all around20:11
+perlDreamerbut when you've got limited resources, what can you do?20:11
sbaurwe've slowly started embracing TT -- but still at the baby steps stage20:12
+perlDreamerisn't it nice how you don't have to invent 20 or 30 template variables for conditionals now?20:13
+perlDreamerand you can talk to objects directly20:13
+perlDreamerthe loop features rock20:13
+perlDreamerwith a bunch of work, we could probably drop the macro system in favor of TT plugins20:14
Haargmacros still make sense for user content in some places, but not often20:17
@preaction7.9 had the new cart layout, right?20:36
sbaurso my very basic, quick testing seems to show that I cannot use INCLUDE in TT with webgui either with an asset or a filesystem file. Is that correct?20:40
@preactionyou should be able to include files, i'm just not sure what the TT include_path is going to end up being20:41
sbaur(I tested with putting a bit of text in a snippet, and also by putting a file with a bit of text in extras20:41
sbaurif i tried to include a URL, i got an error about not having a provider for http20:42
sbaurtried an absolute path and got - absolute paths are not allowed (set ABSOLUTE option)20:43
sbaurnot a good thing to set because then you could change /etc/passwd, for example20:44
sbaurhmmm, maybe i can set an include path20:45
sbaurhmm, but where do i set it? can I set TT options in the webgui conf file, or do i need to go digging into my wre20:47
@preactionyou'd need to set it in the template parser itself i believe20:48
sbauroh, yay, another patch to carry forward :-)20:49
sbaurso, unless i can figure out what specific directory it think's it's in when it's looking for files, there is no way to use INCLUDE and webgui without some sort of core code change20:51
sbaurs/and webgui/in TT/20:52
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sbauroh, and relative paths are not allowed (set RELATIVE option) either20:56
@preactioni'd be open to allowing you to set TT options from the config file, that was part of the plan when we were still going to move to it20:57
+perlDreamerour H::T plugin doesn't allow includes at all21:02
+perlDreamerit has no_includes => 1 set21:04
ckotilIm at 7.8.20 and while looking at the upgrade scripts included in 7.9.21 I dont see any script that will take me into 7.9.x21:07
ckotilis there a trick to upgrading past 7.8.20 ?21:07
@preaction.20 is not the last 7.821:07
+perlDreamerupgrade to 7.8.24 first? http://www.webgui.org/wiki/stop-versions21:07
sbaurI think I missed something big. WebGUI is no longer moving to TT? we are staying with HTML:Template? for the 8 series? forever?21:08
ckotilgotcha. thanks21:08
+perlDreamersbaur, I was wondering if we'd allow includes in the core21:08
+perlDreamersince we don't now21:08
@preactionsbaur: we aren't moving to TT for 8.0, which means we cannot remove H::T during 8.x because of compatibility guarantees21:08
ckotilphew. i dont have to rewrite my templates for TT for a while.21:09
+perlDreamerckotil, there's an online translator for them21:09
+perlDreamershould be effortless21:09
sbaurbut converting templates is going to be happening during 821:09
sbaurperlDreamer: famous last words21:09
+perlDreamerconversion will be effortless21:09
+perlDreamerflawless conversion, on the other hand...21:10
@preactioni didn't say it was going to be happening in 821:10
+perlDreamerit was that way for the original plans in 8, though21:10
@preactioni was more speaking to sbaur's comment. i can't be sure we'll have the resources to do it21:11
sbaurok, fair enough21:12
@preactionsurely we could force any new asset dev to be using TT, but how many of those are going to happen?21:12
+perlDreamerit's not only the assets, it's also the addons, like Admin plugins, content handlers, anything that's like an operation21:37
+perlDreamerbut that could be made to use TT as well21:37
+perlDreameror, XSlate21:37
ckotilupgrade from 7.8.20 to 7.9.21 went smooth. im just in dependency hell right now.23:23
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8aee259 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix an issue where the default cache time of WebGUI::Cache would cause Groups with caches disabled (groupCacheTimeout=0) to actually be cached for 60 seconds. Fixes bug #12038. - http://bit.ly/gKHhrC23:38
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r40728d8 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix an issue where the default cache time of WebGUI::Cache would cause Groups with caches disabled (groupCacheTimeout=0) to actually be cached for 60 seconds. Fixes bug #12038. - http://bit.ly/dWJOw523:38
@preactionNote To Self: Any module bigger than 3000 lines probably needs refactoring23:38
scrottie0speaking of back compat, how bad would the universe break if WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WikiMaster::www_search started using (newly written) options in WebGUI::Search and Paginator to restrict results based on canView?23:48
scrottie0why is asking questions so apetite stimulating?  nothing stimulates me to get up and fry something like having had asked a question.23:49
+perlDreamerscrottie0: lots and lots of tests23:50
@preactionshouldn't be a problem. realistically i'd like to remove all www_search and have a button "Add Search To This Asset" which creates a Search asset and configures it and adds it to the template or something 23:50
* scrottie0 nods slowly23:51
+perlDreameroooh, a Search Role for assets?23:51
@preactionor maybe a role or whatever23:51
@preactionor just attach a search asset via dispatch() and searchAssetId property23:51
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@preactionworking in python all weekend has got me not adding semi-colons to my lines :p00:42
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+perlDreamerpreaction: when do you rest?00:56
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@preactionwait, sunday is housework day.00:59
+perlDreamerya, d00d00:59
@preactionhmm.. let me get back to you on that00:59
+perlDreamerdon't make me come out there and father you00:59
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@preactionperlDreamer: got 10 minutes to talk about crud and definition?01:34
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@preactionanyone know what getHtmlWithModuleWrapper actually does in Thingy?01:50
@preactionand anyone know if i can code for 15 minutes without coming up with things i cannot easily migrate to FormBuilder?01:50
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+perlDreamerpreaction, what about Crud and Definition?01:58
@preactioni'm trying to fix crud_form to use FormBuilder, but it seems that crud_getProperties doesn't get all the properties necessary for a form field01:58
+perlDreamerwhat things do you see are missing?02:00
+perlDreamerand where?02:00
+perlDreamerseems odd, since crud_form generates a form using the old WebGUI::HTMLForm->dynamic form02:00
@preactionbut the new properites don't have real data until you get a session02:02
@preactionand the $property->form only has certain things, not everything02:02
+perlDreameryou're right, it doesn't work in the general case02:03
+perlDreamerbut in the specific case of stuff in the core, it does02:03
+perlDreamerstuff built with crud doesn't have parents02:03
+perlDreamerso you don't have to do a db lookup02:03
+perlDreamerI spent a bunch of time thinking about the Crud/WebGUI::Definition change02:04
@preactioni'm trying to get Survey.pm www_editTest to work02:04
+perlDreamerwhat does www_editTest need?02:05
@preactioncrud_form, that's it02:05
@preactionso crud_form needs to be FormBuilder-aware, which i've done, but the fields don't get created properly02:05
+perlDreamerdid you try it before it was using FormBuilder?02:05
+perlDreamercrud_form takes an object for introspection, data02:06
+perlDreamerand really, it's just a wrapper around WebGUI::HTMLForm->dynamicForm02:07
@preactionthere, tested and it gets the same error i got previously: 02:07
@preactionCouldn't call method www_editTestSave on asset for url: /root/import/untitled2/untitled Root cause: Can't use string ("3") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at /Users/doug/WebGUI_Core/lib/WebGUI/Crud.pm line 94702:07
@preactiongetProperties thinks get_all_property_list returns a hashref, but it returns an arrayref02:08
+perlDreamerif you mean crud_getProperties, I don't think so02:09
+perlDreamermy @property_names = $class->meta->get_all_property_list();02:09
+perlDreamermaybe you're thinking updateFromFormPost ?02:09
@preactionyeah, that02:10
@preactionbut i fixed that, and it seems to set the properties, but still no row exists in my database02:10
@preactionbecause the fields aren't getting created right, so mech can't add data to them02:11
@preactioni'm trying to use $class->getFormProperties, but that keeps complaining i'm not passing in a property name or something02:11
@preaction... because it could be not a class, it could be $self...02:11
+perlDreamergetFormProperties returns the form properties, for one attribute02:12
+perlDreamernot for all of them02:12
@preactionand that's what i want02:12
@preactioni can get a list, and then get the properties02:12
+perlDreameryup, for one field at a time02:12
@preactionbut the problem seems to be that crud_form is called both as a class and an object method, because whatever02:12
+perlDreamerthere are cases where you don't have an object yet02:14
+perlDreamerand you don't want to create one, because that writes to the db automatically02:14
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@preactionyes, i understand, but then you still have to pass in an object for some reason. and getFormProperties needs a session no matter what. 02:14
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@preactionthe problem is that it's being called $class, when it is not02:14
+perlDreameryou can call a variable whatever you like02:14
+perlDreamerit's not used02:14
+perlDreamerwell, except to call crud_getProperties02:15
@preactionbut I need the class, not an object. it's called class, it should be a class!02:15
+perlDreamerI don't want to argue about this02:15
+perlDreamerif it's broken, then it should be fixed02:15
+perlDreamerif you don't like it, rewrite it02:15
@preactioni'm sorry, i'm just frustrated that i lost 2 hours because of my own ineptitude02:16
+perlDreamerIn 5 years, I've never found you to be inept.02:16
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CIA-78wrebuild: BartJol master * red6d6c1 / wre/sbin/backup.pl : added customdir backup - http://bit.ly/idWO3602:28
CIA-78wrebuild: BartJol master * r480fdca / (wre/lib/WRE/File.pm wre/sbin/backup.pl): supressed leading slash tar warning - http://bit.ly/f1TyBq02:28
@preactionyay! it works now.02:35
@preactionnow... Thingy... i think the getHtmlWithModuleWrapper is for yui drag-drop, but i'm not sure...02:35
+perlDreamerit looks like a copy of getHtmlWithWrapper from Form.pm and its ilk02:36
+perlDreamerbut customized to work with the Thing add/edit field interface02:37
@preactionyeah, it adds <div class="bd">02:37
@preactionwhich i think is the dragdrop part02:37
@preactionwhich mucks things up for me and FormBuilder and "The Correct Way"02:37
+perlDreamermaybe, it also looks like the dialog interface02:38
+perlDreamerhd for header02:38
+perlDreamerbd for body of the dialog02:38
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@preactioni suppose i can't get around this one, i'll have to actually test the frontend...02:41
* perlDreamer goes to the gym02:41
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+perlDreamerekennedy!  long time no IRC05:02
ekennedySi Senor.  I was pretty maxed out through the end of last year.  How are you doing.05:05
+perlDreamerI've been busy, too05:06
+perlDreamerin fact, it's time for me to go hang out with the family05:08
+perlDreamerI'll be back on later tonight to release the next version of WebGUI05:09
ekennedyGood hearing from you.  Have a good evening!05:09
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SuperTecham new to webgui 05:40
SuperTechcan you help me with some thing where are the file to extract to put on ftp05:40
SuperTecham lost05:40
@preactiondo you have a shell access to your web host?05:42
SuperTechi got a ftp hosting 05:42
@preactiondoes that mean you have a shell? can you log in and run commands?05:42
SuperTechi dont have shell i got a basic web hosting fot web site i got mysql databse and every thing05:43
@preactionif you don't have a shell, you can't do everything needed to run webgui05:43
SuperTechi looking for a cms for school i have try search many but i dont think am the good way to look05:44
SuperTechi have try and search name 05:44
@preactioncmsmatrix.org has better methods of searching05:44
SuperTechand on this website can we have many like good cms for school05:45
SuperTechwebgui is nice one i have see customer website made by webgui it nice cms05:45
@preactioni'm not sure i understand that sentence. cmsmatrix lets you find a CMS that fits your needs05:46
SuperTechok thanks for the help sir05:47
SuperTechi will check this out05:47
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+perlDreamerthis is a major bummer06:29
+perlDreamerall the simple bugs seem to be gone06:29
+perlDreamerthe only ones left are the big ones06:29
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rcf72a9f / (29 files in 15 dirs): Preparing for 7.10.9 release. - http://bit.ly/i4zNVt06:45
+perlDreamerstoopid sourceforge!07:01
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1df5429 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.10 development - http://bit.ly/hvvXU507:14
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TrexThere's probably a collective groan when I show up, because that usually means there's a bug report coming. :)19:24
TrexI've found that the default email password recovery template is not playing well with Gmail. In trying to fix it, I'm having some problems with the email template itself.19:25
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TrexHey perlDreamer -- thanks for the help fixing the group cache bug!19:27
+perlDreamerYou're welcome Trex.19:27
+perlDreamerthanks for that great test19:27
+perlDreamerI added it, in abbreviated form, to the core19:27
+perlDreamerso if this breaks at some point in the future, we'll find it19:28
TrexCool. Now that you've got me started with testing, you may have created a monster. ;)19:28
+perlDreamertesting has really changed the way that I code, for the better19:29
TrexBut in the meantime, I've found a new bug that's outside WebGUI's testing capabilities.19:29
+perlDreamerare you sure? :)19:29
+perlDreamerwhat is it?19:29
TrexIn the email-based password recovery process, clicking on the link in the email fails in Gmail.19:30
+perlDreamerreally?  what does "fail" mean?19:30
TrexYou get sent back to the home page and webgui.log sees "Visitor (1) connecting from xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx attempted to execute an invalid operation: auth;method=emailResetPassword;token=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"19:30
+perlDreamerodd, is Gmail mangling the URL somehow?19:31
TrexHowever, if you copy and paste the link directly, it works fine.19:31
TrexIt's possible. I see that in the raw HTML of the email, the semicolons are replaced with "3D", but they display properly in Gmail.19:32
TrexAlso, the WebGUI log records them as semicolons.19:32
+perlDreamerso, if the problem is that the URL is being URL encoded, that's testable19:32
+perlDreameryou have have to trigger the email generation, and then pull it out of the mailQueue19:33
+perlDreamerthere are examples of that in t/Workflow/Activity/SendNewsletters.t19:33
+perlDreameror, you can try to intercept it as the templated email is being built19:33
+perlDreamerby mocking the template and then grabbing the template variables out of it19:33
TrexBut the email link works fine if you click on it in another email program, like Thunderbird.19:34
+perlDreamerright, but it might be "helping you out"19:34
+perlDreamerwhereas something more strict might not19:34
TrexWell, tmpl_var recoverPasswordUrl is definitely doing some encoding of the URL. Whether that's an "error" in email standards I can't say.19:36
TrexAlso, if it's a problem for WebGUI to process the query string, it's still properly un-encoding the URL before logging the error.19:37
+perlDreameris it doing the encoding of the URL in the template?19:42
TrexI can't say. I guess that's where some tests or digging into the API would help.19:43
+perlDreamerthat's what I would do19:46
ckotilhehe, Selenium. reminds me of that movie from 2001, Evolution.19:49
TrexAhhh... When creating new templates, especially for admin type stuff, it helps to commit your changes before trying to use them.19:57
TrexThe encoding issue still exists, but in trying to debug it, I forgot to commit my testing templates.19:59
+perlDreamerdo you use wgd?19:59
TrexNo. I looked into it at one point, but the initial learning curve was too steep. I couldn't really figure out what to do with it.20:03
+perlDreamerwell, let's suppose you want to edit a template... :)20:03
+perlDreamerwgd edit templateUrl | templateAssetId20:04
+perlDreamerit pops the template up in your favorite20:04
+perlDreamereditor, and then saves it and commits it for you20:04
+perlDreamernow, let's say you really like your template, and want a package of it for later20:04
+perlDreamerwgd package templateUrl | templateAssetId20:04
+perlDreameror, you'd like to clear the cache for a site20:05
+perlDreamerwgd reset --delCache20:05
+perlDreamerand that wgd edit command?  It works on more than templates20:07
+perlDreamerit will work on ANY asset20:07
TrexWell, the main problem with that is that the number of sites and templates that I work on are so high that I rarely can remember the URL or ID of whatever it is I need to work on, so I end up browsing through the asset tree to find what I'm looking for...and once I'm there, I have no problem working in the web interface for things like editing templates.20:08
TrexThe command line is great for people with better short-term memories than I have. :)20:10
sbaurshould support board tickets come up as search results when someone who has access to the boards does a search on plainblack.com? (wondering if I found a bug, or a feature request)20:11
+perlDreamersbaur, I've never searched for tickets on without using the support board's search20:28
sbaurwell, i was specifically looking for a package that you uploaded ages ago, and I couldn't remember where it was. So I did a sitewide search on both plainblack.com and webgui.org and couldn't find it. but, when i went into the various boards, (support and bugs) I did eventually find it with the same search term that failed on the sitewide20:40
sbaurso, is the sitewide search designed to search the helpdesks, or do I need to request it as a feature. 20:42
sbauroh, and google doesn't seem to be able to search inside the helpdsks either20:42
+perlDreamerthe support board is privileged20:43
+perlDreamerbut the bug board stuff should show up20:43
sbaurmy search term is PBtmpl000000000000013220:43
+perlDreamerby default, it pops up as part of a JS based DataTable20:43
+perlDreamerso maybe not?20:43
sbauri'd humbly point out that google not being able to search the bug board will make it harder for folks to find answers to already solved problems -- thereby creating more work for you20:44
+perlDreamerfor a public bug board, I'd agree with you20:45
+perlDreamerso we need a workaround for that20:45
+perlDreamerbut as to the WebGUI Search asset not knowing about Tickets and stuff, it could definitely be a bug20:46
sbaurok, i'll report as such20:46
+perlDreamerso, I'd suggest filing it, and then we'll let the powers that be determine if it's a bug or an RFE20:46
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scrottie0hrm.  does sendMessage() in Workflow/Activity/RequestApprovalForVersionTag.pm run as the result of a hit from spectre?  and if so, wouldn't $self->session->url->getSiteURL fail to realize that the site is running on https, not http, when it calls $self->session->env->sslRequest to try to figure that fact out?23:26
scrottie0yes, I could test this theory.  or I could generate chatter.23:26
@preactionsendMessage could be sent via spectre, yes23:26
@preactionit's a tossup really, a workflow tries to run in realtime for a few seconds, or until some workflow returns WAITING or ERROR23:27
scrottie0ahh, hrm.23:27
scrottie0I don't see a clean to fix this one.  the first thing that comes to mind is recording the \%ENV and stuffing that in the database, and rigging WebGUI::Session::Env to use that instead when running inside spectre, but that's nasty.23:29
@preactionwhat's the problem? that it comes in on http and doesn't get redirected to https via the apache config?23:30
scrottie0it does get redirected as it should.23:30
scrottie0so the problem is really quite small.23:31
scrottie0cosmetic, even.  in this case.23:31
scrottie0I just hate responding to tickets as "will not fix" without a good hashing through of it.23:31
@preactionthere are some other ways we could fix it, adding a config option for it or something23:32
Haargthe other option is to always assume something like that should be ssl if ssl is enabled for the site23:32
Haargthat seems kind of dangerous though23:32
@preactionone of the ways i want to do certain things in the future is make sitename into a full mountpoint: https://example.com/mount23:32
@preactionwhich would fix this problem too23:32
scrottie0yeah.  custom options are generally a poor solution too but a "this entire site is on HTTPS and only HTTPS" option wouldn't be a bad one.23:32
+perlDreamersounds like a documentation problem to me23:32
@preactionyeah, if we made an option, that'd be it: We are an SSL site. Ever. Always. That's It. Done. Finito. Over.23:33
+perlDreamer"no matter what the URL says, we have set it up so that you will always use SSL.  You needn't worry about this"23:33
--- Day changed Wed Feb 09 2011
@preactionwonderful. it seems that mysql doesn't have 5.0 packages on their site anymore00:20
@preactionoh, there they are. 4 clicks deep00:20
+perlDreameris it bad to use a newer mysql?00:24
+perlDreameror is Oracle twisting your arm?00:24
TrexWell, I believe I've finally worked out the Gmail problem with password recovery.00:32
+perlDreamerwhat is it?00:33
TrexWhen you click a link in Gmail, the request that gets sent to the server has all the semicolons converted into "%3B"00:33
TrexWebGUI doesn't seem to like this.00:33
@preactionbecause semicolons are also query param seperator characters00:34
@preactionbut gmail encoding them removes their seperator ability00:34
@preactionhotmail also does this00:34
TrexIf you convert the semicolon into ampersands, the link works in Gmail.00:34
@preactioni don't know why, as semicolons are valid, and in fact RECOMMENDED because & is an HTML entity that must be encoded as &amp;00:34
TrexIs there anything WebGUI can do on its end to catch and convert these characters in the query string of GET requests?00:35
@preactionno. webgui uses ; everywhere. webgui doesn't use & anywhere00:36
@preactionwell, yes, but it'd be a messload of work00:36
TrexIn another system I was working on, they actually had separate email templates for Gmail. I"d hate to have to do the same thing in WebGUI.00:36
@preactionbut it's just more proof that the W3C's members pick and choose what standards to adhere to00:37
TrexWhat about adding an alternate template variable in the email password template that uses ampersands rather than semicolons?00:37
@preactionthat might fix your current problem, but it doesn't fix the greater problem00:38
+perlDreamerwhy not file a bug report with Gmail?00:38
+perlDreamerand ask them why they're doing this?00:38
@preactioni'm about that right now, i want to see their reply00:38
TrexFor them, this is surely not a bug but a feature.00:38
+perlDreamerTrex, this is like using tables for simple style layouts00:38
+perlDreamerit's not the way things are supposed to be done anymore00:38
@preactionthis is a bug, they are not parsing URLs correctly, as written by the URL RFC00:39
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+perlDreamerthat says that it's only a problem with IE and Gmail00:40
+perlDreamerand not Gmail alone00:40
@preactionso it's IE doing it00:40
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+perlDreamersurprise surprise00:40
@preactionnope, not at all...00:40
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+perlDreamerthat makes me so mad I'm going to bake muffins00:40
TrexNope. I've tested with both Gmail in Chrome and Firefox.00:40
TrexI can show you the access.log entries.00:40
+perlDreamerI believe you00:40
+perlDreamerwell, it just means it's time to try and ask Gmail then00:40
+perlDreamerGetting better: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=22d109fb7993f610&hl=en00:41
TrexThat's recent. I wonder if it's a recent development then.00:42
+perlDreamermust be00:42
TrexThe earliest complaint I have of someone not able to log in was Feb 1st.00:42
@preactionhotmail and others have been doing it forever00:42
@preactionmaybe because of browser bugs causing phishing attacks?00:43
TrexHeh. My university just switched from in-house email to Gmail to save money on $IT. Google just cost them one day of my productivity!00:45
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+perlDreamerah, but think how much more WebGUI you've learned!00:59
Haargalso, it's something happening in the onclick handler for the links.  if you right click on one and open in new tab/window it doesn't do the extra encoding.01:04
TrexOK, thanks for the entertainment, folks! Time to head home, have some supper, and go work on another WebGUI site.01:23
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sbaurok, i just ran into something odd when test updating my site from 7.5.40 to 7.6.35 (using the wre, but an old one)02:23
sbaurAlthough it replaced all sorts of entries in my conf file with ^International(); it didn't actually add the International macro to the lists of macros02:24
sbaurthe upgrade for this site did not give me any errors02:24
sbaurvery odd02:26
@preactionthe International macro should have already been part of your site02:26
sbaurit's not, and I don't know why, cuz we are actually using it, but not getting errors, i'm very confused02:27
+perlDreameryeah, that's worth a double check02:27
sbaurdefinitely no international macro in the mathsuccess conf file on server3902:31
sbaurbut, maybe we aren't actually using it there 02:32
+perlDreamerit's used in templates02:33
+perlDreamerbut maybe you're not using those either?02:33
sbaurmaybe not02:39
sbaurI'll investigate more tomorrow, when i am a little less flummoxed 02:39
sbaurg'night all02:39
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CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbb584ec / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix stories linking to keyword pages after export. Fixes bug #12035. - http://bit.ly/gfe8b805:12
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0f49494 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix stories linking to keyword pages after export. Fixes bug #12035. - http://bit.ly/hA3iak05:13
+perlDreamerpreaction: what do you think about a Group To Add group for the Folder?06:04
@preactionwould probably be a good idea06:04
@preactionas well as getting rid of the addGroup stuff in the config file, imho06:04
+perlDreamerI was thinking specifically of the Folder asset instead of a more general purpose solution for all assets06:05
+perlDreamermainly because it's 7.10-able06:05
+perlDreamerbut we can put in a ticket for wg8 to do the whole magilla06:05
@preactionright, i'm saying addGroup is just one big hassle for the content manager who doesn't expect it06:05
@preactionwe could add Group To Add to folder, but you'd still need to edit addGroup, as it defaults to 1206:06
+perlDreameryes, and it puts it in the reach of users by making it part of the UI06:06
+perlDreamerwe also might have to update the Folder templates06:06
@preactionno, addGroup is a different check, doesn't happen with an asset instance, happens with just a session06:06
@preactionaddGroup in the config file06:07
+perlDreamerFolder can override canAdd?06:07
@preactionnothing can06:07
+perlDreamerhow are posts added by non-admins?06:07
@preactionand it'd be File's canAdd06:07
@preactionPost's canAdd is overridden to be 7 always06:07
+perlDreamerwe definitely need to fix that in 8, and to fix it the right way06:12
+perlDreamerbecause I don't want to do that for File, Image and anything else that people that to put in a Folder06:12
+perlDreamereither that, or override www_add :P06:15
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+perlDreamerpreaction: I need the power!18:14
@rizendon't give it to him!18:20
@rizenperlDreamer is part of the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow Society18:20
+perlDreamerwhere a better society is one under my Iron Thumb!18:20
+perlDreamerand we have tea and cookies at 4:00pm every day, Pacific time18:20
@rizendoes your trainer know about these cookies?18:21
+perlDreamerI don't have control of the society yet, so there's still time to lose weight18:22
+perlDreamerbesides, maybe they're sugar-free, whole-wheat cookies18:22
@rizenwhat would be the point?18:23
@rizenmight as well eat rice cakes18:23
+perlDreameryou may have rice cakes if you wish18:24
* perlDreamer will prefer cookies18:24
* rizen will prefer pie18:24
+perlDreamernow you're talking!18:25
@rizenthe dancer limitation we discussed last night will be resolved next week according to franck and saywer18:25
+perlDreamerso what do you do in the meantime?18:26
@rizenkeep working on wing18:27
@rizenforget about the web part of it for now18:27
@rizenwhen the new version comes out18:28
@rizenthen look at web18:28
@rizenmake sure they fixed everything18:28
+BartJoloh dear18:29
@rizeni smell something dutch18:29
+BartJolyeah, well I already submitted 2 bugfixes last month, so I have been a good boy18:29
+BartJoldon't hurt me18:30
+perlDreamerand a feature18:30
+BartJolwe only need a new wre now...18:30
+perlDreamerwe can make script-only releases of the WRE fairly easily18:31
@rizentacos or burgers for lunch today?18:36
@rizeni'm feeling the need for something greasy, can you tell?18:36
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@BugSlasherMcGurktoo far to walk in -8 temperature18:38
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+perlDreamerthink of all the calories you'll burn on the way there!18:38
@rizenthat was weird18:38
@rizenwhen i'm dead?18:38
+perlDreamerdead?? phaw18:39
+perlDreamermerely waiting to be thawed and reanimated18:39
@rizenit's nearly a mile 1 way at -8F18:39
+BartJolhow much C is that?18:39
+perlDreamer-20, I think18:39
+BartJolok, that is quite cold18:43
@rizenIt's going to be balmy here on Friday, getting all the way up to 20F (-6.66667C). maybe i'll walk it then18:45
SDuensinHoly crap.  rizen is here.18:45
@rizenHoly crap SD is here!18:45
SDuensinLike I ever leave!18:46
@rizenI'm always here in spirit.18:46
SDuensinAww, we know.18:46
@rizenIt's just the perlDreamer is such a slave driver that I don't have much time to physically be here.18:46
SDuensinHey, you're still welcome to pay me fat bank to help out.  :-P18:47
+BartJoland you are the nice, friendly workerbee rizen?18:47
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@rizenapparently my internet connection isn't stable enough to even do irc at the moment18:47
+BartJolhas the earth's magnetic field keeeled over?18:48
SDuensinProbably frozen.18:48
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@frodwithrizen: what Dancer limitation?18:49
SDuensinYup.  Frozen.18:49
+perlDreameryou got the hiccups rizen?18:49
@rizenthey have before/after handlers (kind of like moose), but for request processing18:50
@rizenand right now when you apply them they are global18:50
@frodwithsort of like plack middleware18:52
@frodwithless flexible18:52
@rizenyou can also apply plack middleware to dancer18:52
@frodwithso what are they doing to fix it?18:53
@rizenbut the beauty of the before/after stuff is that it allows you to manipulate the request during processing18:53
@rizenafter deserialization18:53
@rizenand before serialization18:53
@rizenthey're adding a new subsystem called hooks18:53
@rizenand hooks can have filters18:53
@rizenso i can say something like18:53
@rizenbefore_serialization '/user' => sub {}18:54
@rizenso routes that start with /user18:54
@rizenwill be affected18:54
@frodwithand to do that with plack middleware, you'd have to be able to hook into dancer's routing18:54
@frodwithwhich would be annoying18:55
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r702de1e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the missing template variables for userDefined fields in the Map Point. - http://bit.ly/gtfjb619:10
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r1e00e1e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the missing template variables for userDefined fields in the Map Point. - http://bit.ly/flIIn819:10
+BartJolwell, nice to see some tcp packets of you agian rizen, but, I'm leaving19:42
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@frodwithso, I've got some changes to the way metadata works done, and since it's a somewhat major change, if anyone wants to comment on it before I commit it to trunk, here 'tis: https://github.com/frodwith/webgui/commit/c752e0556aee2bd3be675d7c2c9f94963e4468b9.  Particularly want to hear from perlDreamer and preaction.20:01
@preactionfrodwith: looks good to me, but for one nitpick20:23
@preactioni don't think there should be a listAll argument to getMetaDataFields. a new sub would probably work better20:23
+perlDreamerfrodwith: before I start reading, have you run the entire test suite (including WEBGUI_LIVE tests) on this branch?20:24
+perlDreamerand to be clear, the entire test suite including LIVE tests on a 0.9.3 WRE site20:24
+perlDreamerPOD docs for getTemplateVariables don't show the argument list, and that it will accept either hashes or hashrefs20:26
+perlDreamerthe two copies of the template variables are going to slow down HTML::Template a lot.  Also, the "flat list" does not include all the keyword variables that ->get provides.20:27
+perlDreamerpreaction: we can't accept this20:28
+perlDreamerthere are too many serious changes to the way that template variables are created20:28
+perlDreamertitle and url are not getTitle and getUrl any more20:29
@preactionas far as processTemplate was concerned, they never were20:29
+perlDreamerI think you should read the patch more closely (or maybe I should)20:29
@preactionlook at what processTemplate does in current versions, and then look at what the patch does20:29
+perlDreamerprocessTemplate explicitly overrode title and url with getTitle and getUrl, and does that now20:30
@preactionah, then that'll have to be fixed in the patch20:30
@frodwiththat can be changed20:31
@frodwitheasily enough20:31
@preactionfrodwith: why aren't you calling $self->get btw?20:31
@frodwithwhy would I be?20:31
@frodwiththat's not what processTemplate did, is the short answer20:32
+perlDreamerbecause you reimplemented it inside getTemplateVariables?20:32
+perlDreamerand if we change what get does, we'll need to track down every place that does things like that, and fix them too?20:32
@preactionin the version i'm looking at, processTemplate calls get()20:32
@preactionmust be an 8 thing20:32
@frodwiththat's assuming you want to change getTemplateVariables to match what get() does20:32
@frodwithbut I don't see any real problem with calling get()20:33
@frodwithperlDreamer: what do you mean about slowing down HTML::Template?20:33
+perlDreamerHTML::Template's speed is directly related to the # of template variables you give it20:33
+perlDreamereven if they aren't used20:33
+perlDreamerwe ran some experiements 2 years ago with template variables with i18n labels20:34
+perlDreamervs putting in more macros to do the same thing20:34
+perlDreamerby removing the i18n labels as template variables and changing them to macros, we got good speedups in template processing20:34
+perlDreamerthis is going to slow WebGUI down20:35
+perlDreamerand, I don't think any of these extra variables would even work in HTML::Template20:35
+perlDreamersince you can't make deep calls like one can in H::T::Dot and TT20:35
@frodwithThey would work fine with template variable downgrading20:35
+perlDreamerso, in H::T and any other plugin, remove them?20:36
@preactionno, downgrading is more useful than that20:36
+perlDreamerthen we need to go through and document in every set of template variable help which ones are available in which plugins20:36
@frodwithno, the docs for how downgrading work are in the processor base class20:36
+perlDreamerif we were using TT, I'd say this is a great idea20:37
+perlDreamergreat enough that we ought to go rewrite all the templates to use it20:37
+perlDreamerand the template help20:37
+perlDreamerbut it has nothing to do with the metadata variable revisioning20:37
+perlDreamerand I think we should pull it out and put it on the side for now20:37
@frodwithnot -nothing- to do20:37
@frodwithbecause of the metadata stuff inside getTemplateVariables20:38
@frodwithpoint taken20:38
+perlDreamerthe metadata stuff would live okay outside getTemplateVariables20:38
@frodwithbut anyways, have a look at how variable downgrading works.  The variables would be just as available in H::T.20:40
+perlDreamerwhere should I look for this?20:40
@frodwithWebGUI::Asset::Template::Processor, I believe20:40
@frodwithParser rather20:41
sbaurperlDreamer: fyi i just bounced the webserver on server3920:42
+perlDreamerthanks sbaur!20:43
sbaurin case something squaks20:43
+perlDreamerlife would be so much easier if we were already on TT20:44
+perlDreamerhaving multiple template parsers with different philosophies means a ton of work20:44
@preactionyes, but there will always be a better template system20:45
@preactionjust as there will always be a better dispatch system20:45
+perlDreamerof course, but right now I'm thinking of keeping the template variable docs up to date20:45
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@preactionthe downgrade is programmatic, can't the docs be processed?20:46
+perlDreamerwe have dotted template variables that are changed to _'s20:46
+perlDreamerand with this, we'll have dotted template variables that work correctly in both parsers20:46
+perlDreamermaybe, instead of rewriting them to _'s originally, we should have build hashes of template variables20:48
+perlDreamerlike downgrade does, but calling it upgrade20:48
+perlDreamerthere's too much backwards compatibility in the system20:49
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elninohi. according to this http://www.webgui.org/forums/install/apache-modproxy-restart/stop-failure, am I to assume that the testEnvironment.pl now installes missing modules automatically?20:53
elninoThat's a nice new feature!20:53
+perlDreamertestEnvironment.pl has done that for a while20:55
elninooh. had a pretty old version.. =) and currently do not have a webgui server.. Say, does it restart the services too?20:55
elninoI think I had 7.420:55
elninook. 20:55
+perlDreamerbecause you can run WebGUI outside of the wre20:56
elninogood to know.20:56
@frodwithso perlDreamer, this patch would need to document the availability of the additional template variables somewhere21:10
@frodwithand the extra variables will make H::T slower21:11
+perlDreamerbased on what we learned earlier, yes21:11
@frodwithwell, I'll do some benchmarking to see what kind of slowdown we're talking about21:11
+perlDreamerone of the hopes of the template variable list was that someday, with a complete list of available variables you could build a WYSIWIG template editors with integrated help21:11
+perlDreamerso if you drop down a loop, it would tell you what variables are available in the loop21:12
+perlDreamerand so on21:12
@frodwithI don't think that's going to happen for the 7 series21:12
+perlDreamerno, I'd agree21:12
+perlDreamerand it's pretty iffy on 8 as well21:12
@frodwithi'd probably stave that off until we're on One True Templating System21:13
+perlDreamerIt's like Heinz ketchup21:13
@frodwithwhat do you mean about documenting it "everywhere" though?21:13
@frodwithwouldn't it just be in the help for asset?21:13
+perlDreamerprobably needs to be in the help for each asset21:14
+perlDreamersince each asset has a unique set of variables21:14
+perlDreamerand no one will read Asset.pm's template help, to find out help for the Article21:14
@frodwithwell, we could throw in a note21:15
@frodwithon every help page21:15
@frodwith"here are some special template variables that are available everywhere"21:15
+perlDreamerbut every help template doesn't use getTemplateVariables, only view methods?21:15
@frodwithwell, everyone that uses processTemplate21:15
@frodwithuses it21:15
@frodwithwhich, admittedly, isn't everything.21:16
@frodwithif they did, though, use either processTemplate or getTemplateVariables21:20
@frodwith-then- we could put in such a note, eh?21:21
@preactionand as i discussed with frodwith as he started this, eventually processTemplate itself won't exist, as we'll be returning the template, not the output of the template21:22
@preactionand that might be sooner rather than later, as www_edit will be rather annoying without that21:22
@frodwithin 821:23
@frodwithobviously it will always work this way in 721:23
@preactionunless i decide to backport it to 7.10, even if i don't actually use it anywhere21:23
@frodwithbut regardless21:23
@frodwithif I pull getTemplateVariables out of this patch21:23
@frodwithand someone....  doug....21:23
@frodwithdoes an audit of the existing template processing to make sure they all use getTemplateVariables21:24
@frodwithor processTemplate21:24
@frodwiththen this could go in, -assuming- it isn't too much of a slowdown.21:24
@frodwithwhich I will be determining momentarily21:24
@frodwithbut perlDreamer, if the getTemplateVariables stuff is undone from this patch, the metadata stuff is good?21:25
+perlDreamerI got mired in getTV,I'll keep reading21:26
+perlDreamerdid you run the whole test suite on a CentOS WRE, including live tests?21:26
@frodwithfirst I was told run the whole test suite.  Then run it on a particular wre version.  Then it has to be on centos, also.21:26
@frodwithThis is where I complain.21:27
+perlDreamermost WebGUI users use that setup21:27
+perlDreamerthere have been cases of database table case naming21:27
+perlDreamertest module versioning issues21:28
+perlDreamerI'm pretty sure the subtest won't work on a WRE'd WebGUI21:28
@frodwithI ran the whole test suite, not including the live tests because the metadata shouldn't effect them at all, and I'm not setting up a vm to run the test suite on. And if that's the commit policy, then it's no wonder no one contributes any code to this project.21:28
@preactionit's not and never has been our policy to require a clean test run on a specific setup. i don't even run the WRE anymore21:29
+perlDreamerso how do we vette code that crashes our production servers when it's installed?21:30
@preactionthe same way we've always done. we can't protect against everything21:31
@preactionyes, this is potentially a dramatic change, but not so dramatic that i think there will be cause for alarm21:35
@preactionversioned metadata might cause more problems than getTemplateVariables, honestly21:35
+perlDreamerall the right code is in there, purgeRev, addRev, etc21:44
+perlDreamerneed to make sure that's all tested in the tests, though21:45
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+perlDreamerfrodwith, when an asset is duplicated, does it copy over all the metadata, or just the latest version?21:45
@frodwithit should just be the latest version, I would think21:46
@frodwithdoesn't duplicate only do one revision?21:46
@frodwithor does it do all of them?21:46
+perlDreamerduplicate just does one21:46
@preactionafaik duplicate is the latest revision21:46
+perlDreamerI'm reading the patch quickly, but are there tests for purgeRev, duplicate, and so on that verify their behavior with versioned metadata?21:47
@frodwithThere are tests to make sure that metadata is versioned, but not that purgeRev deletes metadata for that revision21:47
@frodwithI can certainly add such a test21:48
+perlDreameror duplicate only takes the latest version?21:48
@frodwithditto for duplicate21:48
+perlDreamerI'll have to backport the Story.pm changes to 7.9.  Not having the metadata variables in the edit form is a bug.21:50
@frodwithprobably need template help for those as well in some fashion?21:51
+perlDreameronly that they exist21:52
+perlDreamerthe system has no way of knowing which ones are available21:52
+perlDreamerbut again, that's my bad since I didn't put them in there in the first place21:52
+perlDreamerkind of like the broken links in the keywords when exporting a story21:52
+perlDreamerthat should have worked in the first place21:52
+perlDreamerso I upgraded that to a bug, and fixed it (today)21:52
@frodwithCan't get everything right the first time21:53
+perlDreamerI like your test collateral21:54
+perlDreamerWisconsin country and city names?21:55
@frodwithah ;)21:55
+perlDreamerfrodwith, I'm sorry that I tried to make you run tests with more requirement than I should have.22:15
@frodwiththat's okay perlDreamer.22:21
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+perlDreamerpreaction: little CS email checking problem23:03
+perlDreamerit uses the Interval form control, which lets you set small intervals23:03
+perlDreamerwhich WebGUI interprets as 0 minutes23:03
+perlDreamervia Cron23:03
+perlDreamerso it never checks for email for CS'es, ever23:04
+perlDreamerI'm tempted to fix this with some hoverhelp which no one will ever read, and a minimum set via pffpp23:04
+perlDreamereither that, or a switch to the Interval form plugin to not allow anything smaller than 1 minute23:05
@preactioncouldn't we say 0 minutes is every minute when changing the cron?23:07
@preactionif we want it to never check, we'd disable it23:07
+perlDreamerso, inside the CS, we make interval < 1 minute == 1 minute23:08
@preactionwell, i'd say inside the CS, if it's less than 1 minute, we just change "minuteOfHour" to be * instead of */something23:09
+perlDreamermaybe it's worse than that23:14
+perlDreamerif minuteOfHour isn't an integer, does it break?23:14
@preactionprobably. dunno23:14
ckotilwill there ever be fine grained access control in the wiki pages contained within the wiki asset? 23:17
+perlDreamerfine grained how?23:18
@preactionand why?23:18
ckotilthe wiki child pages adhear to the wiki assets permissions. viewably by and able to edit. 23:18
ckotillet's say a wiki page i want to be available to everyone, but the wiki asset already says that group foo is the only group to view it23:18
+perlDreamerif we exposed that as a form variable to the wiki edit interface23:20
+perlDreamerthen, you'd have to modify just about every web facing method in the wiki master to support it23:20
+perlDreamersince they don't check per-asset permissions on wiki pages23:21
ckotilso a lot of work23:22
+perlDreameryes, but doable23:22
ckotilit's not a big deal to me. I dont use it. one of my user bases do use it. but I told them from the start about the limited access controls in the wiki.23:22
ckotiljust wondering if this was the intentional design for the wiki, or an oversight.23:23
@preactionintentional, to mimic mediawiki23:24
@preactionyour best bet would be to copy the content into an article, really23:24
@preactionour best bet might be to allow Asset Report to bypass permissions, if it even checks them23:25
ckotilim hoping i can use the shortcut asset to override the permissions23:25
ckotilIF the situation arises where I have to make a wiki page public or viewable to another group.23:25
+perlDreamerthat might work23:26
+perlDreameras long as calls to getParent call back to the parent wiki23:26
sbaurso I'm only looking at 7.6 stuff at the moment, but did later versions start documenting database changes somewhere (i have a vague recollection of migration.txt as a possible name)?23:26
+perlDreamerinstead of the shortcut's parent23:26
ckotilpd: yeah. ill try it out and let you all know.23:26
+perlDreamersbaur: migration.txt was for the 6 to 7 transition23:27
+perlDreamerit doesn't exist in the repository any longer23:27
@preactionsbaur: migration.txt is for code migration. there is a latest schema document, but otherwise we don't guarantee db schema23:27
+perlDreamerother than that, you best bet is to check the upgrade subroutines23:27
sbaurick, but ok23:27
+perlDreameris there something in particular that you're looking for, or just general info for education?23:28
sbaurone of my test migrations sites is blowing up because survey_id got renamed to assetId in the survey_response table23:28
+perlDreamerwas 7.6 the new Survey asset?23:28
sbauri think 7.5 was23:29
sbaurjust means my upgrades are harder to coordinate because I have to switch codebases for my custom code as well as upgrading the site23:30
+perlDreamerno, it was 7.623:30
sbaur7.6.4. i see it now23:32
sbaurhmmm, maybe that's why i never got my sites upgraded last year23:33
+perlDreamerwere we careful and put a notice in the 7.6 gotchas file about the new Survey?23:33
sbaurThe Survey system has been completely updated.  Please make sure you23:33
sbaur     create full backups of your survey results and export them as needed.23:33
sbaur     Results will not be imported into the new Survey system.  Your old surveys23:33
sbaur     will be imported into the new survey system.23:33
ckotilw00t. shortcut overrides work to override permissions of wiki children.23:34
+perlDreamerhm, nothing as thorough as, "Any custom code you've written for the old Survey will no longer work."23:34
sbaurum, no23:34
+perlDreamerbut "completely updated" should give one pause23:34
+perlDreamerckotil: is the new shortcut inside the WikiMaster, or outside it?23:35
sbauryes, but unfortunately i read them while concentrating on one site, not really thinking about the other "little" site23:35
+perlDreamerthat's understandable, and something more clear wouldn't hurt23:38
ckotiland i just made a shortcut of a wiki page. not the master.23:38
+perlDreamerckotil, I'd guess that inside the Master that it wouldn't work, since it only gets assets of class WikiPage23:38
+perlDreamerstill, cool that you can work around the system that way23:39
ckotilyeah. good work around to have in the arsenal23:40
ckotilbc I know it's only a matter of time before my wiki users want to make a page public. even though they assured me before starting to use the wiki that they wouldnt.23:41
+perlDreamerthat would make a good wiki entry in the WebGUI wiki23:41
+perlDreamerseems ironic...23:42
ckotili noticed i also can't override the style template of the wiki child.23:47
+perlDreamerwell, you can, but it doesn't matter23:47
+perlDreamerit looks that up in the parent23:47
ckotilah. ok.23:47
sbaurIs there any resource (besides the actual code) where I (the non programmer) can get an understanding of what changes where made to Survey in 7.6?23:48
@preactionso if i'm making templates into objects passed back up the chain, what should we do with styles? call it wrapper and try to mimic TT as much as possible?23:49
@preactionsbaur: it was rewritten from scratch. nothing remains. destroyed completely.23:49
sbaurwell, that's something I guess23:49
@preactionyou can try it out on a demo site23:50
+perlDreamerI think she was looking for a way to update her custom code on that aforementioned little site23:50
+perlDreamerand docs would help with that23:51
+perlDreamerunfortunately, all we have is tribal knowledge23:51
+perlDreamersbaur, if you have specific questions, we could probably answer them23:51
@preactionwhat does the custom code do?23:51
+perlDreamerbut it was a complete rewrite23:51
sbaurluckily, my macro was easy to update, but the responses viewing, i have to dig into a bit23:52
ckotilthanks guys. have a good night.23:52
+perlDreamerlater, ckotil23:52
sbaurI think I'll tackle, the "why is my style showing ^admintoggle... first -- my guess is a nested macro23:54
+perlDreamerno, that sounds like a bug that was fixed23:55
+perlDreamermacro processing was missing from some of the templates23:55
sbaurso fixed in 7.7 somewhere?23:55
+perlDreamerI don't remember which version it was fixed in23:55
sbaurI'm at the latest 7.623:55
+perlDreamerI'd grab a webgui-7.9 docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt and search for macro23:56
+perlDreameror, try the bug board23:56
sbaurit's definitely part of a nested macro, which I know was a problem with 7.5 to 7.623:56
sbaurif I take it out of the "nest" it works fine23:57
sbaurso if it was a bug, it got fixed in 7.6 somewhere23:57
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sbauris there some trick to figuring out which assets are using a particular style template? short of grepping a db dump?00:24
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xdangerpatspam: just reading the backlog and noticed that you asked about screen+irssi with desktop notify. Did you find a solution yet?00:45
@preactionsbaur: the db dump will be your easiest option00:46
sbaurmy 600 mb db, makes it not quite so easy00:47
sbaurbut yeah, i was afraid of that00:47
@preactionwell, SELECT title, url FROM assetData JOIN wobject USING (assetId, revisionDate) WHERE styleTemplateId=""00:47
@preactionbetter when the dump is inside the DB, really00:47
sbaurw00t, that got me a place to look and see if our old nested macro fix added extra single quotes into the live site or not00:49
sbaurand, it does add some extra quotes. oh well. I think I will live with them instead of having to change all my templates after the upgrade00:53
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+perlDreamerpreaction: you and your fancy shmancy sql queries that are actually useful to users01:32
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daniel_bHi. Does anyone run WebGUI on PostgreSQL? Or does it have to many MySQL-isms to do that?09:12
@preactionmost likely it has too many mysql-specific sql to work in pg09:14
daniel_bToo bad.09:15
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+danny_mkGood day, under new templates I only get "Add New Value->" something must be broken someplace, any hints?17:58
+danny_mkI am referring to the Namespace field17:59
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scrottie0what's the end of the URL that you're looking at?  eg for http://foo.com/bar/baz?quux, what's bar/baz?quux ?18:18
+danny_mkscrottie0: are you addressing me or someone else?18:21
scrottie0danny_mk, you.18:26
scrottie0I'm trying to figure out what screen you're looking at.18:26
+danny_mkWhen I go to create a new template the only choice I get is "Add New Value->" in the template field.  The url is:  https://www.mywebsite.com/root/templates?noCache=12:1297355344;func=add;class=WebGUI::Asset::Template18:29
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scrottie0hey perlDreamer.18:31
+perlDreamerhey scrottie018:31
+perlDreameryou're up early today :)18:31
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scrottie0not really.18:33
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scrottie0danny_mk, yeah, that sounds messed up to me.  what does your /root/import look like?18:44
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+danny_mkscrottie0: in WebGUI or filesystem?19:28
+danny_mkin webgui it looks fine19:32
+perlDreamerif no namespaces show up in that dropdown, it's bad19:33
+perlDreamersince WebGUI is building a list of existing namespaces from the template table19:33
+perlDreamerit needs those to help display a list of template that is context aware19:33
+perlDreamerso, if you only want Article templates, it only shows you article templates19:34
+danny_mkright, what do I check?  Should I just make sure that the template table has valid namespaces?19:36
+perlDreamerif it does, then it may be some other kind of issue19:36
+danny_mkwhat would be an invalid namespace?  would null be invalid?19:36
+perlDreamernull would be invalid, especially since, in your note above, you said that all of them were blank19:36
+danny_mkI only have two choices "leave blank" or "add new value" that is it.  I will check the template table now19:38
scrottie0next step, I'd pull up one of the templates in root/import (yeah, WebGUI, not the filesystem) and see what it has for a namespace, if anything.  I'm not sure how the templates would continue to exist but with nothing for namespaces.19:40
scrottie0I guess MySQL is capable of anything with regards to database corruption.19:41
scrottie0also let me know if you're able to open up a mysql shell (I'm not sure how you have this hosted).19:44
+danny_mkOK, one of the templates had a null namespace.   Field definition in the table:  namespace | varchar(35)  | YES  | MUL | Page19:51
+danny_mkthat is not cool19:51
+danny_mkI fixed the one null record and whalla!  got what I expected, problem fixed.19:51
scrottie0I'd expect one null option in the list of valid values, in that case.20:00
+danny_mksounds like I should put in a bug report, what do you think?20:01
scrottie0wouldn't bother me any.  I don't see offhand what would cause that behavior.  er, it wouldn't bother me if you filled a report.20:03
scrottie0I'm glad that the data is basically still all there in your database.20:05
+danny_mkput one null value in the namespace field of one of your templates.  A field that allows nulls should not break the dropdown box options.20:06
scrottie0doesn't seem to be a problem with WebGUI::Form::Combo.20:17
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+danny_mkHmmm... I have tried to reproduce this behavior on three different servers using the current version and none of them seem affected, must have been a problem with that one system.23:04
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sbaurperlDreamer: once upon a long time ago, you put a version into the bazaar. Any idea how I can actually get the search to find it for me? (I get one non related hit searching for no hits when searching for 7.6.35)23:34
sbaurLooks like it fixes a bug we are running into23:34
+perlDreamerI think there's also a copy on sourceforge23:34
+perlDreamerunder community releases?23:35
sbauroh cool 23:35
sbaurnope, nothing comes back with community releases on either the bazaar search or the sitewide search23:36
sbauryou rock!23:36
sbauroh, the community releases comment was for SF...23:37
+perlDreameryeah :)23:37
@preactionshould we just give Ning a direct line to put her templates into WebGUI? http://www.webgui.org/addons/theme:-design-studio23:57
--- Day changed Fri Feb 11 2011
+perlDreamerif we don't have to worry about i18n, good macro usage, and cross-style layout issues (like the one that was just fixed in Underground), then no00:07
+perlDreamerbut I don't think we have any standards for those right now anyway, aside from the test suite00:07
+perlDreamerwhich a designer isn't likely set up to run00:07
sbaurDid you guys have to do a lot of work to the 7.6 survey in 7.7? Because it hates me in 7.600:20
+perlDreamerusing grep, there are 47 mentions of the survey since 7.7.000:23
+perlDreamerthere's some overlap in the 7.7 serries, since survey patches were made in 7.7 beta AND 7.6 stable at the same time00:24
+perlDreamerand that's based on looking at the changelog00:24
sbauri just tried to create a 2 question multiple choice survey using all default templates, and the result is not usable (e.g. i do not even see my question text)00:25
sbaurI will go read the bugs/etc, but I'm starting to think it'll be less work to take the old survey forward under a new name...00:26
+perlDreamerthat could work00:27
+perlDreamermaybe you could upgrade further?00:27
+perlDreamerhave you tried a demo site to check out a recent survey?00:27
sbaurnot yet, that was going to be part of the etc00:27
sbaurotoh, taking the other site on that server even up to 7.7 is going to require some more fixing of our custom code, which we do not have time for at least until summer00:28
+perlDreamerwhat other changes happened in 7.7 that are going to affect your code?00:29
sbaurmy one test upgrade to 7.7 left me with the "omg this is a lot of work" impression, but it may not be as bad as i think00:29
+perlDreameriirc, 7.7, 7.8 and 7.9 include upgrades to default templates00:29
sbaurum, i'm not remembering right at the moment00:29
+perlDreamerah, okay00:30
sbaurwell, it seems to work on demo, though it's possible my editing somehow fubared it on my test env.00:39
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@preactionthis is what comes of not having easily extended applications :(00:50
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sbaurperhaps why i thought the 7.6 survey hated me. It defaults to only letting people take it once, so did not show me anything useful after my first time through01:36
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+perlDreamersbaur, I think that's a setting in the survey02:29
+perlDreamerand it defaults to 102:29
+perlDreamerit's called maxResponsesPerUser02:30
sbaurit is, and i found it, and it doesn't hate me nearly as much, though i'm wishing for an easy way to turn boxes into circles. but that's why we have designers on staff02:31
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@preactionnew idea: every error message that gets shown to the user should also show up in the logs. agree/disagree?02:41
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inkvizitor68slhi all02:55
inkvizitor68sli have webgui installed from .deb 02:55
inkvizitor68slwhere i can find it via web-face ? 02:55
* inkvizitor68sl found README02:56
inkvizitor68slsorry for noise >_>02:56
@preactionno worries, we're here if you need us02:57
@preactioni don't think too many of us here have actually used the debian package, haven't seen ernesto around in a while (unless i'm missing his nick)02:58
inkvizitor68slhm.. it could be good idea to move /usr/share/doc/webgui/README.Debian.gz to man =) 02:58
+perlDreamerpreaction, definitely agree03:03
@preactionok, if i find more, i'll keep logging them03:03
@preactionmigrating to FormBuilder is really. really. boring.03:03
+perlDreamerI thought it would be challenging and massively frustrating03:04
@preactionit's boring because i'm rewriting something i know i'll be rewriting again later03:04
@preactionwhen i actually make progress, it's fun!03:04
@preactionlike migrating Operation::Settings, was not bad at all03:04
@preactionnext up is Operation::User, should be the same, pretty simple, even though i get to migrate Profile and more Auth bits03:05
@preactionit's the places that do ->raw() that are the evil ones03:05
@preactionand most of those places are apps that we want to rewrite with a revision03:05
+perlDreamer"rewrite with a revision" ?03:07
CIA-78webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * ra3a5d44 / (6 files in 3 dirs): migrate Settings operation to FormBuilder (+14 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/dO5pNs03:07
+perlDreamerlike 8.1 ?03:07
@preactionduring 8.x or 9.x yes03:08
@preactionProject Manager, for instance, i'm skipping. Matrix too.03:09
@preactionother apps I don't know what our plans are.03:09
+perlDreamerProject Manager, Time Tracker, EMS03:10
@preactionso if we're going to rewrite them completely (again, in some cases), why am I rewriting all their form stuff?03:11
+perlDreamerI thought we were going to repo-ify them03:11
+perlDreamerand not rewrite them03:11
@preactionsome of them yes, but does that mean they need FormBuilder?03:11
@preactionanyway, sushi time03:12
+perlDreamerfish on!03:12
@preactionthe most important bit is making sure the APIs that require bits of FormBuilder forms to be returned are working, the rest... is it really necessary?03:12
+perlDreameryou'd learn a lot by converting them03:12
+perlDreamersince people with custom code may be in the same boat03:12
+perlDreamerand I don't know how likely they are to do a rewrite vs an upgrade03:13
+perlDreamerin any case, you have fish, seaweed and rice waiting for you03:13
+perlDreamerand I have to cook dinner for The Thundering Hoard03:14
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+bartjolany ideas to insert a macro in HTMLForm code?17:06
+bartjolas a form element?17:08
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+perlDreamervery nice.  Thanks for the tip, scrottie0!18:36
* scrottie0 tips his imaginary hat18:39
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--- Day changed Sat Feb 12 2011
@preactionwhy does git cherry-pick insist on updating a huge portion of the changelog file?00:02
@preactiontrying to cherrypick a commit from 7.10 to 7.5 means the changelog gets updated with all the data between00:02
@preactionis it trying to establish the context?00:02
scrottie0my understanding is that it has to rebase all changes past the cherry-pick00:10
scrottie0hrm.  wait.  what?00:11
@preactionnm, now it's not doing it for some reason, i fixed the way i was specifying the list of commits to cherry-pick00:12
@preactionbut i get a double patch or something. one sec00:12
scrottie0hrm.  makes something like git checkout old-branch; git diff new-branch path/file | patch -p1;git add path/file;git commit tempting.00:13
@preactionhttps://gist.github.com/823149 <- how do I fix conflicts there? there's two levels of patching. wtf?00:14
scrottie0I guess it needs the stuff the change is relative to, and the stuff those changes are relative to, and so on.  if the cherry-pick modifies the same commit in both branches, then it doesn't need anything extra.00:14
scrottie0if you're cherry-picking onto something that was modified, then you have history and conflicts.00:14
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@preactionbut it wasn't modified, it's the base 7.5.40 tag00:15
@preactionthen i git cherry-pick -n 41ac1f153e2ab03c80f08206ce61825324d3c51d..61245baaaadf71f401c5b057a54ca1bd20b31a4e00:15
@preactionwhich gives me the diff i pasted to gist00:15
scrottie0if the commit is on top of the same commit, why would you have a conflict?  im-poss-e-ble'!00:16
@preactionand i must really be crazy, because that isn't how the file looks.00:16
scrottie0er, the cherry pick commit is on top of the...00:16
scrottie0yes, git causes insanity.00:16
scrottie0if the cherry-pick doesn't apply entirely to the same base commit in both branches/versions, then I wouldn't cherry-pick.  I'd make a diff and apply it, manually if needed.00:17
scrottie0but it seems like veryone gits a bit differently.00:17
@preactionactually, i was just freaking out over a weird looking git diff. the files were normal, i did the merge, committed the result, and everything's fine00:19
scrottie0brimstone and damnation, I'm telling ya!00:21
@preactionindeed. thyre by dragyns00:22
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elninowhen we move sites to plainblack, do we give the files to you> or are you willign to login to the old server and grab the files? is there a fee for that?05:38
@preactionyou have to make the db dump and the uploads tarball. we can help with what commands to run05:40
elninook. thanks.05:40
elninodo you have a ftp site we can upload them too?05:40
@preactionwe can set something up, but i would suggest Dropbox05:40
elninook. Ill see how that works.05:41
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@khennanyone around?20:25
@khennwondering if anyone else is having trouble with this module: PerlIO::eol20:25
@khennI installed it and cpan finds it20:25
@khennbut when I run testEnvironment WebGUI is telling me it's not installed20:25
@khennand when I start modperl I get this:20:26
@khennError loading WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Thingy: Could not load WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Thingy because Can't load '/data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.0/darwin-2level/auto/PerlIO/eol/eol.bundle' for module PerlIO::eol: dlopen(/data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.0/darwin-2level/auto/PerlIO/eol/eol.bundle, 1): no suitable image found.20:26
Haargseems like it didn't compile correctly20:49
Haargpossibly 64-bit problems20:49
@khennyeah there are cpan reports about issues with 64 bit machines21:03
@khennI'm going to have to comment the code out for now21:03
@khennjust affects Thingy I guess21:03
@khennmight want to think about a different module21:04
@khennI manually updated XSLoader and now I can get to the tests21:08
@khennbut the test are failing21:08
@khennpiece of crap21:08
Haargit's probably an issue with your wre setup21:11
Haargi think preaction has that stuff fixed but i don't know if it's been released21:12
@khennwhat would my wresetup have to do with it?21:12
@preactionyes, what platform you need it for/21:12
@preactioni've got a set for a few things21:13
@preactionlet me check quick21:13
Haargthe wre you have is probably 32bit, but you are on a 64bit machine21:13
Haargso some of the stuff doesn't compile right21:13
@khennso I'm running a 32bit version of Perl?21:13
Haargmost likely21:13
@preactionhttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/226725/wre-0.9.4-macosx-10.6-prereqs.tar.gz <- here's a /data/wre/prereqs directory that should work21:14
@khenncan I copy this over my old wre folder or should I back up and create a new one?21:17
@preactionyou can copy it over your old prereqs folder21:17
@preactionwell, no, move it and create a new one, sorry21:17
@khennI'll have to move mysql data21:17
@khennan config fiels I guess21:17
@preactionjust the prereqs21:17
@preactionjust /data/wre/prereqs21:17
@khennall my data is in /data/wre/var/mysqldata21:18
@khennI see what you are saying21:18
@khennleave the existing wre folder21:18
@khennand copy prereqs from the new file21:19
@khennk thx21:19
@khennCan't load '/data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/darwin-2level/auto/Image/Magick/Magick.bundle' for module Image::Magick: dlopen(/data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/darwin-2level/auto/Image/Magick/Magick.bundle, 1): Symbol not found: __cg_DGifGetLine\n21:24
@khennlooks like it's not installed21:25
@khennI'll update some of this stuff and see what happenes21:25
@khennseems like there are worse problems with this one unfortunately21:27
@khennApache2::Request won't even install here21:27
@preactionyou do have OSX 10.6, right?21:30
@khenner no21:30
@khennyeah 10.6.621:30
@khennI moved prereqs21:31
@khenndeflated the tar into a clean prereqs21:31
@khennand then ran setEnvironment again to be safe21:31
@khennand testEnvironment is dumping that a number of modules are missing:21:32
@khennChecking for module Image::Magick:                Not installed, but you're not root, so you need to ask your administrator to install it.21:32
@khennChecking for module Apache2::Request:             Not installed, but you're not root, so you need to ask your administrator to install it.21:32
@khennthose are the biggies21:32
@khennthe others are minor21:32
@khennwhen I try to install Image::Magick cpan is telling me 6.6.6 is already installed21:32
@preactionbecause it is, it just can't load21:32
@khennthen I assume the same is true for Apache2::Request21:33
@preactionmost likely21:34
@preactionyou can try checking out the WRE source and building it yourself, i'm still not sure why OSX's compiler reports certain things21:35
@preactionlet me do a checkin quick though21:35
CIA-78wrebuild: Doug Bell master * r5db8e32 / (build.sh getperlmodules.sh getsource.sh): update perlcfgopts and some outdated sources - http://bit.ly/i7mEjL21:43
@preactionshould work now, though the standard warnings about getsource and getperlmodules apply21:43
@preactionif getperlmodules fails with a CPANMIRROR, change it to a BACKPANMIRROR and it should work21:43
@preactiongetsource, if it fails, you'll have to go looking for it21:43
@preactionnext version of WRE isn't going to be so dependent on version numbers strewn about the scripts21:44
carograyHi all, can anyone answer a "web server" question?21:48
carograywe have Meebo IM embedded on page on our WebGUI site, which is on virtual server at PB21:49
carograysomeone outside of my website group has asserted that our webserver should be able to log - keep track of - the number of times our users actually chat using the Meebo widget.21:50
carograyTo me this is like asking our Plain Back server to keep track of the number of times a user looks at YouTube videos embedded on our site. Is this possible?21:50
@khennawstats I believe can track some of that21:51
@preactionno. none of the meebo traffic travels through the webgui site, so the webgui site cannot track it21:51
@khennI stand corrected21:52
@preactionit's like the chat on thegamecrafter.com or thelacunaexpanse.com21:52
@khennoh right21:52
@khennthey are external requests21:52
scrottie0PerlIO::eol ... I vaguely remember upgrading version of something else to fix this22:17
scrottie0short of dynamically re-writing HTML, like some of these "anonymous browse" proxies do, yeah, ...22:18
@khennwell if you can think of what you upgraded ...23:28
@khennI'm all ears23:28
@khennnot having much luck building the wre23:28
@khennthat's more likely a motivational issue however =)23:28
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scrottie0http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/A/AU/AUDREYT/PerlIO-eol-0.14.tar.gz ... what version do you have?02:00
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danny_mkhello everyone, how can I suppress the ?noCache... at the end of the ^PageUrl; macro?17:17
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danny_mkalright, if anyone knows the answer please send me a message to my box on the webgui.org site.  gotta run, thanks.18:13
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+perlDreamerpreaction: what do you think of sidestepping the whole "reindex Thing and progeny in editSave" in favor or a workflow activity that we kick off on commit?23:40
@preactionyou could use webgui fork and then not care about the output23:43
+perlDreamerright now, Fork only seems to be used for Progress Bars and their ilk23:45
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+perlDreamerpreaction, with the DBI, and statement handle that goes out of scope does automatically call finish, right?00:49
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@khennscrottie, I have 0.1417:02
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+danny_mkhello everyone18:05
sbaurHi danny_mk18:06
+perlDreamerHey, danny_mk18:06
+danny_mkis there a way to supress the noCache after the url when using the PageUrl macro?18:06
+perlDreamerturn it off in the admin console?18:06
+danny_mkthat turns it off for the entire site, I sometimes get weird problems when I do that18:07
+perlDreamerWebGUI doesn't provide a way to turn it on and off selectively18:14
+danny_mkDarn, that is too bad18:15
+perlDreamerI'm sure one could be written18:15
+danny_mkyup, I am sure, however I have my hands full with some other stuff right now18:16
+danny_mkthank you for the answer18:16
+perlDreamersorry, danny_mk, I wish I had a better one for you18:16
+danny_mkthank you for the help.18:16
+danny_mk8 will take a while huh?18:17
+danny_mkreally looking forward to that version18:17
+perlDreamerwe keep beating on preaction to work faster18:17
+perlDreamerbut he has become strong, and resists them18:17
+danny_mkI bet18:17
+danny_mkI really wish an ORM was strongly considered for that version18:18
+perlDreamerwe do, too18:18
+danny_mkthat reminds me, I have to do lots of work on the OpenId module18:19
+danny_mkmy users are complaining about some issues when recovering passwords...18:19
+perlDreamerhowdy patspam18:39
patspam_how's thing perlDreamer?18:39
+perlDreamermega busy18:40
patspam_good busy?18:40
+perlDreameryes, just lots and lots of it :)18:41
+perlDreamerhow are things in New York?18:41
+perlDreamerNo gas problems?18:41
patspam_heh no18:41
patspam_this weekend I will partake in my favourite new york hobby18:42
patspam_moving apartments!18:42
+perlDreamerall right, time to start a pool18:42
+perlDreamerLength of time for patspam's next apartment occupation18:43
+perlDreamerI'll take 6 months, for $518:43
patspam_heh this time it's easier, because I have a lease18:43
patspam_we're moving around the corner from our current place18:43
+perlDreameroh, that's not a bad move18:43
patspam_yeah, super excited18:44
patspam_new place has a separate study for Helen18:44
patspam_and less cramped kitchen18:44
+perlDreamernice.  So it's bigger than the last one?18:44
patspam_yeah, proper 2Br this time18:45
patspam_== room for guests to stay!18:46
+perlDreamerwas that a hint?18:46
patspam_especially wG friends :)18:46
+perlDreamerI hear they do have trains in New York18:46
patspam_I think you need to try them out18:46
+perlDreamera real vacation from home would be nice18:49
+perlDreameralthough, the way kathy's program is going, she's not going to get a break for a while19:02
+perlDreamerthey keep adding extra lectures and practicums19:02
+bartjolwell no NY plans for me in the near future19:06
+perlDreamerhow about DE or FR plans?19:08
+bartjolI'v been in belgium last week19:09
+bartjol saturday the 5th that is that19:09
+perlDreameranother sailing race?19:09
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+bartjolnope, have been to the fosdem19:18
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CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r016df9a / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add the Job Description column to the Job List template for the CS. Fixes bug #12045. - http://bit.ly/dRLhPd19:58
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rae14332 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add the Job Description column to the Job List template for the CS. Fixes bug #12045. - http://bit.ly/dX3Gzt19:59
+perlDreamerpreaction: the CS getMailInterval is seriously broken20:12
+perlDreamerthe code is only hooked up to minuteOfHour20:13
+perlDreamerbut the form will let you enter in any valid WebGUI interval20:13
+perlDreamerdo you see any problems with me changing this to limit it from once very minute, to once every hour?20:13
scrottie0all mail must be broken.  it's an unwritten rule.20:14
@preactioni don't see any problem, but i don't know20:15
+perlDreamerckotil, sbaur: please wake up and read the backlog about the CS problem20:19
+perlDreamerI'm going to make changes, and if you use the feature to send email to a CS, I'd appreciate your feedback20:19
sbaurI don't think i have a good enough understanding of what's being talked about and possibly changed20:20
sbaurand i don't have any of my CSs set to retrieve mail, only send mail out20:20
+perlDreamerI'll reiterate the whole problem20:21
+perlDreamerin a CS, you can ask it to check an email account and import emails as posts20:21
+perlDreamerand it will check for new posts, replies and so on20:21
+perlDreamerthe code is setup to take a duration in seconds, divide it by 60, and check for email that many times per hour20:21
+perlDreamerso interval/6020:21
+perlDreamerhowever, the interval can be set to less than 60, which means it never checks20:22
+perlDreameror it can be set to absurdly large values like daily, which ends up forcing the system to check way, way too often20:22
+perlDreamerso we need to limit what the user can enter20:23
ckotilperlDreamer: Im not using the CS. 20:23
+perlDreamerand I think that a valid range would be from once per minute, to once per hour20:23
+perlDreamerno CS?20:23
+perlDreamermy my20:23
ckotilyeah :)20:23
+perlDreamerno forums?20:23
ckotilIve never really spent much time using it.20:24
ckotilthe idea has been tossed around, but... the need isnt really there yet. for my group to use it.20:24
sbaurthat range sounds reasonable to me, but i could see where someone might think once per hour was still too often, especially for a low traffic sort of forum20:24
+perlDreamerwell, from an application point of view, frequency == loading20:25
ckotilwe're in the process of a CMS overhaul. so forums might be a new requirement.20:25
+perlDreamerso at anything below 1/hour kind of falls into the noise level20:25
+perlDreamerand if you want to hammer WebGUI but have very responsive lists, you set it to 1/minute20:25
sbaurand i never felt comfortable setting up the email linkage, so wound up just using an external archived mailman mailing list for the reply to message of stuff the CS sent out, and that worked fine for our particular low traffic use20:25
+perlDreamerI'll add in an every other hour option20:28
scrottie0ah, hrm.20:37
+perlDreamerbetter dissent now, scrottie0, (or khenn or frodwith)20:37
@frodwithhuh, wha?20:37
+perlDreamersoon the code will be written, and too late to dissent20:37
+perlDreamerif you have 5 minutes, would you backlog and read about the CS time interval for email snafu?20:37
scrottie0sorry, that ah, hrm, was supposed to be a privmsg.20:38
scrottie0how embarassing.20:38
scrottie0it's too Monday for me to argue with the voice of insanity.  fix the stupid thing.20:38
scrottie0I have some confetti I'll bust out.20:39
scrottie0or maybe it's punch card chad.  I'm not sure.20:39
@frodwithperldreamer: why don't you just make it an actual interval and let people set it to whatever they want?20:41
+perlDreamerwell, Spectre only works on a minute timescale right now20:42
+perlDreamerso you can set it to something illegal20:42
+perlDreamerand, the effort of figuring out the interval 123789412320:42
+perlDreamerin terms of minuteOfHour, hourOfDay, dayOfWeek20:42
+perlDreamerwould suck20:43
@frodwithyou could sort of20:43
@khennperlDreamer, once per hour might be too slow for certain clients20:43
@frodwithround it20:43
+perlDreamerkhenn, it would go as fast as every minute20:43
@khennthen I don't think there's a problem =)20:43
+perlDreamerreally, I just want to stop using the interval form control since it lets you set ridiculous things in this context20:44
@khennscrottie0:  Do you recall how you fixed that PerlIO::eol problem?20:54
scrottie0khenn:  no.20:55
@khennDoug pointed me to the WRE source, I guess I'll just have to try to build it20:55
scrottie0khenn:  do you have the latest PerlIO::eol module?20:55
@khennit simply won't install20:55
scrottie0whaddyamean it won't install?20:55
scrottie0I'm pretty sure that one way or another, I had to install it.20:55
@khennhaarg and preaction say it's due to the fact that I'm likely running a 32 bit Perl on a 64 bit machine20:55
@khennyeah I installed it from cpan20:55
scrottie0I've been abusing WREs with cpanm regularly20:55
@khennI could try cpanm20:56
@khenndon't have that installed yet20:56
@khennnot sure if it will be any different though20:56
scrottie0oh, right.  then you need to set some CFLAGS... such export CFLAGS='-m32'20:56
@khennsame packages20:56
scrottie0before perl Makefile.PL.  and then if it isn't using ExtUtils::MakeMaker, which WORKS CORRECTLY and THAT'S WHY IT'S COMPLICATED (STOP TRYING TO REWRITE IT EVERYONE PLEASE OKAY THANKS) then that won't work.20:56
Haargi don't think cpanm will make any difference20:56
scrottie0then you have to edit the build materials and insert that arg at the strategic point.20:57
@khennHaarg:  I didn't think it would20:57
scrottie0or edit the Makefile if it's MakeMaker and add it to whatever CFLAGS get called in there.20:57
scrottie0but yeah, if you let perl build XS extensions for 64 bit when you have a 32 bit perl, it won't work.20:57
@khennthat's a little above my head for now, but I'll do a bit o research later20:58
scrottie0export CFLAGS='-m32'20:58
scrottie0right before `make`20:58
scrottie0then do `make`20:58
scrottie0erm.  in order to that, you'd probably want to find cpanm's or CPAN(PLUS)?'s copy of PerlIO::eol, or else download the tar.gz from cpan.org, and do export CFLAGS='-m32' && perl Makefile.PL && make && make test && make install yourself21:00
scrottie0sorry, CFLAGS before perl Makefile.PL.21:01
@khennyeah I tried it via cpan21:01
@khennbut cpan is telling me it's already been made21:01
@khennwill have to do it manually later I guess21:01
scrottie0perl Makefile.PL also lets you pass args... what is that... aha.  perl Makefile.PL CCFLAGS='-m32'21:02
scrottie0two Cs.21:02
scrottie0again, that's assuming ExtUtils::MakerMaker.21:02
@khennok thanks21:03
@khennI'll give it a shot21:03
scrottie0well, shot it in the face when you do.21:05
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scrottie0does anyone know offhand if it's a common problem with a common fix for a Mac to just completely lose the ability to normal/left click things, both on the touchpad and with a mouse plugged in?21:07
scrottie0sorry for being off-topic.21:08
@khennthat's not normal21:08
sbaurnot normal at all21:09
sbauroutside chance it has something to do with accessibility options getting turned on by accident21:11
* scrottie0 nods21:11
scrottie0I'll Google that.  thanks for the suggestion.  if I have to hold a key to left click, that would at least give me the power to change the setting.21:12
+perlDreamertab keys and enter/space bar?21:12
scrottie0with that and right clicking, you can't ever get a lot of dialogue boxes into focus.21:13
scrottie0if I could right click, I could probably change the focus rules.21:13
@khenncontrol click doesn't do it?21:13
scrottie0uh, dunno.  let me power the thing back up.21:14
+perlDreamerscrottie0, it's a Mac.  It's a diva.  It's jealous of the other laptop in the house.21:15
+perlDreamergive it a Snickers bar and move on21:15
scrottie0which other laptop?  the R1, the Aero, the CF-27, the Wallstreet, the T3, the RD3D, or the P-1120?21:19
+perlDreamerno wonder it's jealous.  You have a whole techno-harem!21:20
scrottie0is control click supposed to be a right click?21:25
scrottie0that doesn't get things into focus.21:25
Haargusually two finger click is right click21:28
@khenncontrol click is supposed to right click21:28
Haargand control click, yeah21:28
@khennthat works too21:28
@khennor should21:28
@khennmethinks you need to make a trip to the apple store21:28
Haargcontrol f2 should get you into the menu21:30
scrottie0often the right click menu doesn't bring things into focus, and if I can't bring some dialogues into focus, I can't proceed with the application.  or with the powerdown, except by holding the power button down and non-gracefully powering off.  and so on.21:30
scrottie0yeah.  I don't want to become one of those Mac users who makes monthly trips to the "Genuis Bar".  having to beg my ISPs and my cell provider to keep their stuff working is about all I can handle.21:31
+danny_mkThat happens to me when I enable the bluetooth wireless mouspad21:32
scrottie0mmm.  candid question here.  how often do you guys with Macs find you have to reinstall the OS?  this sure seems like a software problem.  I managed to tell it to ignore the built-in Touchpad when an external mouse is present, tried two mice, and it still does it.21:32
Haargi've never had to reinstall the OS to fix a problem.21:33
Haargi've done it anyway just to wipe the machine, but i've never been forced to21:33
sbaurI've haven't had to since os 10.2 came out. Do you have the same problem if booted off of CD? If so, then it's hardware.21:34
+perlDreamerscrottie0, did you do anything to the box today  (aside from turn it on)?  Upgrade, install, configure, insert?21:35
@preactionrestart didn't fix that problem?21:35
scrottie0this wasn't today.  this was a while ago.  no, restart doesn't fix.  it might have been after updates.  I can't remember.21:36
@preactionyeah. i'd take it in21:37
scrottie0sbaur, good question.21:41
@khennI've never had to reinstall the os on my mac21:41
@khennonly problem I've ever had was that I had a hard drive go out on me21:41
scrottie0Apple actually uses the (formerly) IBM "Deathstar" Deskstar drive in the Time Capsule.  that blows my mind.21:44
@preactionapple takes cheap stuff and charges expensive prices. not news :p21:44
@preactionthey take cheap RAM and charge $50 / stick for it21:44
scrottie0bah.  booted into the install disc, it has the same problem.  I'm unclear how such a hardware failure could affect both the built-in touchpad and an external mouse with the built-in touchpad disabled.21:46
+perlDreamercan you reenable the touchpad?21:46
@preactionmaybe it thinks the mouse is being held down?21:46
scrottie0touchpad is only disabled while mouse is plugged in, automatically.21:46
scrottie0tried two mice and fresh boots.21:46
+perlDreamertime for some lunch21:56
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sbaurThis is probably a silly question, but... In a 7.6 dataform, how do I edit/remove the email fields? They do not show up when I view all data, but they do show up in the JSON that's in the database in the DataForm_entry table. (I need to report out some datafom data and it being there is cluttering stuff up)02:18
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sbaurit's a stumper. I'm going to try to get around it by making a lovely elaborate template toolkit template for the sql report. Luckily I translated the default report ages ago and have that as a base to work with. I 'll let you all know later in the week if I was successful or not02:31
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CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf3e340f / (4 files in 4 dirs): Rework the CS mail fetching interval so that it can't have crazy values like never, every second or yearly. Fixes bug #12043 - http://bit.ly/hHIiUt03:40
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6865fda / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/Spectre/Cron.t): Build a test to verify checkSegment. Addresses bug #12044. - http://bit.ly/hROztv03:40
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r820f285 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Rework the CS mail fetching interval so that it can't have crazy values like never, every second or yearly. Fixes bug #12043 - http://bit.ly/gmRGUB03:40
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r2de1a61 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/Spectre/Cron.t): Build a test to verify checkSegment. Addresses bug #12044. - http://bit.ly/hXo63A03:40
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CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r90dec24 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Prevent an empty AssetProxy macro from causing an infinite loop. Fixes bug #12046. Thanks to Trex for the patch! - http://bit.ly/hy80kr03:50
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * ree26bfc / (3 files in 3 dirs): Prevent an empty AssetProxy macro from causing an infinite loop. Fixes bug #12046. Thanks to Trex for the patch! - http://bit.ly/fxuRmM03:51
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+perlDreamerpreaction: any objections to an early software release tonight?05:00
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r6d77fa9 / (29 files in 15 dirs): Ready for 7.9.22 release. - http://bit.ly/dPxbil05:03
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+perlDreameryou are a kind and benevolent free software dictator05:03
@preactionin fact, if you'll remember, i keep telling you to release it earlier, so you don't have to worry about it when there are better things to do, like hang out with the kids, or eat05:03
+perlDreamerwell, ironically05:04
+perlDreamerthere is a kid at the table throwing a food fit about eating05:04
+perlDreamerso a software release, with all its inherent danger and frustration is a welcome break05:04
@preactionah, mais oui05:04
+perlDreamermaybe you'd like some?  It's chicken parmesan alfredo05:06
+perlDreamerwith french cut green beans05:06
+perlDreamernow, if I was serving the kid chorizo black bean soup, or oysters, or something odd I could see the fit05:07
@preactioni'd eat it, but i just got done eating scalloped potatos and ham05:07
+perlDreamerstoopid SF boogers05:08
+perlDreamerthey won't reset my account05:08
+perlDreamerI mean, really, who is going to guess the old password is S00perUltr@MegaH0Oser, anyway?05:09
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+perlDreamerall done06:38
+perlDreamerRadix_: we're at 7.9.22 and 7.10.10 this week06:38
CIA-78webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb866584 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.23 development. - http://bit.ly/eK0AHX06:39
-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.9.22-stable | 7.10.10-beta | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com06:50
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xdangerWhy did you change the format of http://update.webgui.org/latest-version.txt and why isn't the newest version in http://update.webgui.org/7.x.x/ ?15:37
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+bartjolxdanger: I think it was an accident16:03
+bartjolit happened before and then it wasn't intentional16:03
+bartjolstill, not very good practise16:04
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+bartjolaah, it is da perl lumberjack17:11
* perlDreamer is a perl lumberjack, and I don't care17:12
+perlDreamerHe sleeps in late and combs his hair17:12
+perlDreamerapparently, he also forgets to type in the right command line options17:12
+perlDreamerand causes xdanger great distress17:12
+bartjolyesterday, someone even trusted me with a razor on his face...17:12
+bartjoldon't read the irc logs, because we totally bashed you17:16
+perlDreameryou only say that to taunt me into reading them!17:16
+bartjolwell, it wasn't that bad17:21
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SDuensinHey, what are you Mac folks using for an IRC client these days?  I've never found anything I'm completely happy with.  :-(17:59
xdangerirssi ;)17:59
@frodwithI'm using adium beta17:59
@frodwithconnected through an irssi proxy17:59
SDuensinAdium is causing me headaches with ZNC and my iPad.17:59
@frodwithI used Colloquy for a while, wasn't too bad.18:00
sbaurAdium (non beta) has been good for me on my desktops18:00
@khennI use Colloquy18:00
xdangeryou could try a mac "gui" for irssi: http://www.sysctl.co.uk/#macirssi18:02
xdangerirssi has perl bindings =)18:03
SDuensinMac GUI?  Uh, ok.  :-D18:04
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@frodwithhmmmm...Growl support with event-based notification control and selective per-channel notification.18:05
@frodwiththat sounds awfully nice18:05
* SDuensin loves growl.18:05
+perlDreamernew IRC client?18:05
@frodwithdunno how new it is, but I've never tried it18:06
xdangerI have screen + irssi at a server and I have a ssh tunnel for notifications to growl18:06
xdangerit's older than the current mainline irssi18:06
@frodwithso, here's a question for y'all.  I just built a CentOS vm and dropped the WRE on it.  Running testEnvironment.pl to get my modules up to speed, it chokes on trying to install Image::Magick with a bunch of compile errors. Anyone had this experience?18:07
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xvaarajust testing macirssi =)18:08
+perlDreamerthat sounds like the libgomp problem18:08
@frodwithso, install libgomp from somewhere and all will be well?18:08
+perlDreamerthat should do it.  yum install libgomp18:09
+perlDreamerit should be in the install instructions18:09
+perlDreamerI also like to do yum install screen18:09
+perlDreamerand cpan App:::Ack18:09
+perlDreamerand wget http://haarg.org/wgd18:10
+perlDreamerand I'm pretty sure that the latest VM image on SF has all that done already18:10
@frodwithPackage libgomp-4.4.0-6.el5.i386 already installed and latest version18:11
@frodwithOh, there's a vm image18:11
+perlDreameryes, but it's stripped down for people evaluating WebGUI18:11
+perlDreamerno graphics18:11
@frodwithall I want it for is a clean testing environment18:12
+perlDreamerthen you should be good to go18:12
+perlDreamerthere's a 7.8.24 on sf.net18:12
+perlDreamerit won't have git on it18:12
@frodwithoh hang on, it just doesn't want to install the latest Image::Magick18:17
@frodwiththe one that's in there is fine18:17
@frodwithalthough it won't install Net::Twitter.18:18
+perlDreamerthat's due to bad testing18:18
+perlDreamerthe account that he setup for testing was shut down18:19
+perlDreamerso the tests fail18:19
+perlDreameryou have to force install it by hand18:19
@frodwithi kind of wish the wre's perl was configured such that you could easily restore the perl modules to a "clean" state (whatever came with the wre). Or is it, I wonder?18:23
@frodwithI seem to remember there being some sort of distinction in the perl config process between like...  dist_perl and site_perl18:24
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@frodwithMmph.  macirsii's per-channel growl notification is not what I envisioned.18:49
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@frodwithBasically you set up your notification prefs, and then you can silence them for certain channels.  Which is not at all what I want.18:49
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@frodwithI want to be able to say...  show me any time anyone talks in #webgui, but only when I'm mentioned in #perl (etc)18:50
@frodwithwhich probably means I'd need to write a plugin or something18:51
+perlDreamergood thing you're a programmer18:52
@frodwithyeah the question is do I want it badly enough to figure out how to do it18:52
@preactionfrodwith: i could certainly make the base WRE perl modules install to dist_perl, but usually all you need is to replace the prereqs directory19:19
@preactionxdanger: i recommend irssi proxy for when you're at your computer: http://irssi.org/documentation/proxy19:20
@frodwithpreaction: It'd be nice if they went to dist_perl, for the next wre release maybe? I guess not a big priority.19:20
Haargyou mean vendor_perl?19:20
@frodwithmaybe that's what I mean19:20
Haargyou make sense.  that's pretty much the point of vendor_perl19:21
@preactionyeah, i can certain try to make that happen19:21
xdangerpreaction: I have proxy, but I only use it when connecting from a mobile phone. I'm just used to use terminal and ssh ;)19:21
@preactionit might be easier to get it to connect to growl if you have a local instance running and use the Desktop::Notify perl module or something19:22
xdangerI've cut back on my irc usage in the last few years19:22
xdangersure, but I already have this setup so why fix if it isn't broken =)19:23
@preactionbecause we're geeks! we always need to do it better!19:23
xdangeryou say that tunneling irssi notifications via ssh tunnel to a perl-server process to do growl notifications isn't geeky ?19:24
xdangerand using autossh to keep the connection open even if I jump from wifi to 3g =)19:24
@preactionno, i'm saying it isn't better. seems fragile to me19:24
xdangerId say its more robust than irc-connection19:25
+perlDreamerif we use vendor_perl, then it might make it easier someday to drop the WRE specific perl, as well19:26
+perlDreamerif we don't need modperl, then we likely don't need to custom compile a perl anymore either19:26
+perlDreamerand that makes our system easier for the distro packagers.19:26
xdangerI just can't wait for ditching modperl for plack =)19:27
Haargeven with mod_perl there's no reason we need our own perl19:27
Haargexcept to force a specific perl version19:27
+perlDreamerI read most of the perl delta files as they come out, and I haven't seen anything yet that would prevent us from using a newer perl19:28
+perlDreamerbut I may have missed stuff, too19:28
Haargin the past i think it was more to force an up to date perl19:28
Haargstill is really19:29
Haargwebgui 8 needs 5.10, and there are tons of systems that isn't available with system packages19:29
+perlDreameryeah, but when we compile our own perl, then we also have to live with problems like the module dependency thing that pops up with CHI/Moose/Log::Dispatch etc19:30
xdangerhas anyone tested this with webgui 9.x: http://search.cpan.org/~pmakholm/Plack-App-WrapApacheReq-0.01/lib/Plack/App/WrapApacheReq.pm19:30
+perlDreamerxdanger, patspam_ did a project called PlebGUI, which is similar to that but specific to WebGUI19:31
+perlDreameryou can find details of it on his blog at www.patspam.org19:31
+perlDreameror com19:31
+perlDreamerit's slow, but it works19:31
HaargperlDreamer, re: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/1179519:31
xdangerthat I know19:32
Haargdid a presentation on character encoding yesterday.  when looking into it, found that LWP got fixed at some point.19:32
Haargin earlier versions, it decoded things badly, thus needing that utf8::downgrade hack19:32
Haargmodern versions don't have the problem19:33
+perlDreameras a pet owner, "fixed" has variable meanings, so I'm glad you detailed that19:33
+perlDreamerwhat version do we need to have to be beyond that point?19:33
Haarg5.828 fixed it19:33
Haargwhich is newer than what the wre has of course19:34
+perlDreamerthat can be fixed19:35
+perlDreamerI have permission to make "text-only" releases of the WRE at need19:35
+perlDreamerto fix problems in scripts19:36
+perlDreamerso I don't see why putting a new LWP into the WRE without recompiling everything wouldn't be allowed19:36
Haargi was rather confused when i started looking at it because i knew LWP had been doing the wrong thing, but couldn't see how it would.  then i remembered that i use up to date modules.19:39
+perlDreameryeah, until we repeat the great JSON 1.x/2.x API fiasco19:40
scrottie0dammit, I keep wishing that I had learned to use Hyperscope.19:49
@preactiondoes anyone else here even like programming in JS?19:51
+perlDreamerafter reading "JavaScript, the Good Parts", I like JS19:51
+perlDreamerI don't like using it in a browser19:51
scrottie0when I'm not going stupid dynamic Web forms, yeah.19:51
@preactionbut then you're doing node.js or something, which you may as well be writing Perl19:52
scrottie0I was in the process of retooling to be an ActionScript developer before I stepped in WebGUI.19:52
@preactionjust for the job opportunities? or did you actually like it?19:52
scrottie0most guys who do ActionScript are terrible and they make lots of money.  usually when you're terrible and make lots of money, you have to use Microsoft stuff.19:53
scrottie0well, I kinda got a taste of it at the previous gig, writing games.19:53
@preactioni mean, i like it, except for its java affectations (class-based doesn't have to mean java-like), but it doesn't seem like your cuppa ;)19:53
scrottie0the API pre 10 is inconsistent and full of terrible surprises, but programming Flash I found to be surprisingly fun.19:53
scrottie0I went and found a bunch of AtariBASIC and started portered it ;)19:54
scrottie0lots of great flashbacks there19:54
@preactionyeah, AS3 really turned over a new leaf, and the flash vm's new capabilities with regards to C linking is awesome19:54
scrottie0I've been trying to get off of the Perl sinking ship for *years*19:54
@preactionwell, listing to port definitely19:54
scrottie0linking to C?  no kidding?  nice!19:55
@preactionyeah, they took the OSS Doom and compiled it to run in the flash vm in a browser plugin19:55
@preactionworks a little wonkey due to no right-click, but AIR doesn't have that problem19:55
scrottie0dammit, that's what I should be playing with... wiring that up to the MUD.19:55
@preactionhttp://labs.adobe.com/technologies/alchemy/ <- alchemy, that's it19:58
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+perlDreamerI think we need warnings for WebGUI like these: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/02/sparkfuns-funny-take-on-obligatory-product-safety-warnings.html20:21
@preactionthat it's called the "Sparkfun Heaterizer XL3000" is enough for me20:25
@preactioni'll heaterize it! i'll heaterize the crap outta it!20:25
+perlDreamerthat's what I need, a good session with the heaterizer to work out those sore muscles20:26
scrottie0250?  bah.  a "moderate" oven is 350.  brownies bake at 350-375.20:27
@preactionmight be why you shouldn't heat food with it20:27
+perlDreamerit's only for spot heating20:27
scrottie0speaking of food vs electronics, I know people who do solder reflow for surface mount electronics with a bloody toaster oven.20:28
ckotildunno , supposedlly the Red Ring of Death xbox 360's can be fixed by running them for a long time and get really hot so the soldier reflows20:30
ckotili tried it with mine a couple years ago. Wrapped it in a town, and left it on for a whole day. It still works to this day.20:31
ckotilThat was after returning two to microsft. Ive had bad luck with that console. meanwhile my day1 xbox1 is still running strong.20:31
ckotilerr, s/town/towl20:32
+perlDreamerckotil, before you corrected that, I had all kinds of new respect for you :)20:32
+perlDreamerI mean, the NOC stuff is pretty cool, but wrapping stuff in a town!  You had me seriously geeking out there.20:33
ckotili would have left it for you, but i dont know how I could have explained wrapping the 360 in a town.20:33
+perlDreamertowns are very insulating20:34
@preactionyeah, the original xbox was that big, but not a 36020:34
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@frodwithAdium has a plugin that lets you pipe events through any external program, and gives you the chat name, the sender nick, and the message.  So my quest is complete.20:47
@frodwithIt's called Pipe Event, if anyone's interested20:49
@frodwiththat plus this: http://gist.github.com/82990620:50
@preactioni don't think you're allowed to do that20:50
@frodwithdo what?20:50
@frodwithwhy amn't I?20:51
plainhaofrodwith is allowed to do anything he wants21:05
@preactionwho am i to say what i can and cannot do?21:06
@preactionthat's it! i'm putting myself on notice!21:06
plainhaois frodwith a daddy now?21:06
@frodwithno hao....  we had a miscarriage in december21:09
plainhaoi'm sorry21:09
@frodwithme too :-/21:12
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@khennI miss Perl =(22:23
plainhaoi miss khenn22:29
@frodwithplainhao: You're clearly mad.22:29
plainhaomad with love22:30
plainhaokhenn, have you tried scala?22:32
@khennno I have not22:33
@khennis that what you are up to lately?22:34
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plainhaono, i attended (and filmed) a talk on scala22:34
plainhaoit compiles down to jvm22:35
plainhaoand can use java classes22:35
@frodwith*and produce java classes, I think22:35
@frodwithsee also clojure22:35
plainhaowell, there's a catch there22:35
@khennit looks like the bastard child of VB and Java22:35
@frodwithkhenn: looks can be decieving22:35
plainhaojava doesn't have certain things, like first class functions22:36
@frodwithit's an FP thing22:36
plainhaoso if you plan on using scala objects from java, you need to plan accordingly22:36
@khennhmm so it compiles to bytecode eh?22:37
plainhaoscala is functional-object-oriented :)22:37
@frodwithlots of things do that these days22:37
plainhaoyeah, clojure looks interesting too22:37
plainhaotoo distracted by all these new toys lately22:37
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sbaurI need some template toolkit help. I'm not getting something basic. I am using TT to iterate over the columns_loop in DataForm. I want to do something when I get to the data_entry column. I can't figure out how to write the comparison so it works. 01:25
sbaurmy first stab at it was [% IF ( [% column_name%] = "data_entry" ) %] but that complains about an unexpected token (%)01:25
@preactionyou don't need the inner [% %], just column_name01:26
Haargi think you'll also want == instead of =01:28
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sbauroh, yeah, i did figure out the ==01:29
sbaurok, so then i'm running into a string comparison issue. Have to figure out what whitespace is coming back with data_entry01:30
@preactionhow is your loop constructed?01:32
sbaurjust pasted it into http://webgui.pastebin.com/regWW4Z701:33
@preactioni think you want something more like: [% FOREACH col IN columns_loop %] and then [% IF col.column_name == "data_entry" %]01:34
sbauras soon as i change it to [% FOREACH col IN columns_loop %] it skips the loop completely01:35
@preactionnm then01:35
sbaur<- is an idiot01:41
sbaurI saw entryData and wrote it as data_entry, probably because I was looking at table names earlier01:42
sbaurthank you for your help01:42
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xdangerdoes anyone know why ins and del htmltags don't render in some browsers?18:28
xdangerI did a diff for webgui revisions, but it doesn't render in some browsers18:31
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@frodwithis there an option to testEnvironment.pl to install optional modules?18:51
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@scrottieperl -MAcme::Intraweb testEnvironment.pl18:53
@frodwithah ho, ah he, ah ha ha ha18:53
xdangerIs there any interest in WebGUI::Operation::Diff that I made out there? it's kinda clunky, but does something =)18:54
+perlDreamerwhat does it do, xdanger?18:55
xdangerit has function: www_diffAssetRevisions18:55
+perlDreamerwhat's the clunky part of it?18:55
xdangerI't not for html, so it does a diff and render the html encoded in a <pre> tag18:57
+perlDreamerit also says that it work with Oriental languages18:57
+perlDreamerso it's better off as a plugin18:57
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@scrottiethat looks really handy.19:02
@frodwithyes it does19:02
+perlDreamerxdanger, if you make it a Content handler, it's easier to configure19:08
+perlDreamersince you don't have to add code to Operation.pm19:08
+perlDreamerjust config file stuff19:08
+perlDreamerand all that can be automated with an install script19:09
@frodwithwhat does it working with Oriental languages have to do with it being better off as a plugin?19:09
+perlDreamereverything that goes into WebGui has to be fully i18n-able19:09
xdangerI'll take a look at it this night19:10
+perlDreamerand Text::WordDiff says it doesn't work well with Oriental languages19:10
+perlDreamerthat's from a skim of the module19:10
+perlDreamerwhich bums me out19:10
xdangerit's just regexp19:10
+perlDreamersince I'd add it in now otherwise, if preaction approved19:10
@frodwithyou left out a doesn't19:10
@frodwithi was confused19:10
+perlDreamermust need some coffee19:10
@frodwithI understand now19:10
@frodwithsomething based on Text::Diff though19:11
xdangerif there is a better diff library (or a small program) I'd like to know =)19:11
@frodwithwould be almost as handy19:11
xdangerI't based on that19:11
xdangerbut now to training -->19:12
@frodwithright, but a line-oriented diff wouldn't have the same i18n limitations19:12
@frodwithand we could put it in core ^^19:12
+perlDreamerand a core level diff function for assets would rock!19:12
@frodwithyesindeedy.  I find myself copy-and-pasting to files and running plain-old-unix-diff on assets from time to time19:13
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sbaurI find myself doing that with templates an awful lot of the time19:14
+perlDreamerfrodwith, with wgd you can speed that up a bit, but it's still clunky19:14
+perlDreamerwgd export url19:15
@frodwithactually that wouldn't make a bad wgd plugin either.  wgd diff asset_specifier, menu: select two revisions.  Bam.19:15
@frodwithbut it'd be cooler with a web interface.19:16
+perlDreamerand more accessible to users19:16
@frodwiths/cooler/more accessible to users/19:17
+perlDreamerI think it'd be nice if we did the same amount of diff though, as the command-line version19:17
@frodwithhow d'you mean?19:17
+perlDreamerwhat changed between these?  style templates, users, groups, storages, etc19:17
+perlDreameryou get all of that with the wgd/diff 19:17
+perlDreamerbut we can add that later19:17
+perlDreamerright now, content/templates is most useful19:17
@frodwithactually that's a wonderful idea19:17
@frodwiththe other wouldn't be hard to do, you just need a canonical dump19:18
@frodwithto diff19:18
@frodwithwhich would be what, something like YAML::Dump($asset->get)19:18
+perlDreameryeah, something like that19:19
+perlDreamerI was thinking cmp_deeply19:19
+perlDreamerand skip the serialize step altogether19:19
@frodwiththat wouldn't diff as nicely though19:19
@frodwithi mean, for the big content sections19:19
+perlDreameryeah, I see what you mean19:19
@scrottiexdanger, if you want to give me a .diff, I'll beta test it for you >=)19:20
@frodwithif this was going into core19:23
@frodwithhow about adding it to Asset.pm, rather than as a content handler19:23
+perlDreamerthat's cool with me, but preaction would need to give the final nod19:24
+perlDreamerit doesn't have to be templated19:24
+perlDreamerbut output needs i18n19:24
+perlDreamerand a few simple tests for diff19:24
+perlDreamernot the UI level, but the content it provides19:24
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+perlDreamerso it'd be best if there was a www_ method19:24
+perlDreamerand a content generation method19:25
@scrottiewhat's wrong with it being a content handler?  Asset is cluttered.19:25
@frodwithbecause it's intrinsically an asset function19:25
@scrottiearen't lots of other content handlers?  assetManager comes to mind =P19:26
+perlDreamerassetManager is a manager for assets19:26
+perlDreamerand it calls methods from the assets19:26
@scrottieit makes sense to me to bust out the core APIs from the tools (and their UIs) that operate on them.19:26
@frodwithI think an argument could be made for the asset manager to be functions on the Asset class.19:27
@scrottiethe fact that some of the core UI stuff is commingled in doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea to try to keep them apart.19:27
@frodwithI mean, I agree with what you're saying scrottie19:28
@frodwithbut that's not the convention in the WebGUI code base.19:28
@frodwithinsofar as there is a convention.19:28
+perlDreamerthere's a convention!19:28
+perlDreamerWe got a file, and everthing goes in it!19:29
+perlDreamerso, aside from huge, messy unmaintainable files, what's not to like about that?19:29
@frodwithI guess if we wanted to be Real Conventional, we'd make an AssetDiff.pm with package WebGUI::Asset at the top19:29
@frodwithlargeness of files isn't what makes for unmaintainability19:30
+perlDreameroh, please don't do that19:30
@frodwiththe problem is...  not enough separation of concerns19:30
+perlDreamerit's hard enough for the POD checker as it is19:30
@frodwithtools for operating on assets over -->19:30
@frodwithcore asset logic over <----19:30
+perlDreamerthat sounds awesome19:30
+perlDreamereven if only the www methods were pulled out, it would be better19:31
@frodwithright, but we're not refactoring the whole codebase, so we might as well be consistent19:31
@scrottiethere's no need to refactor this plugin.  it's fine as it is.  don't de-factor it.19:31
@frodwiththe need is that it's not consistent with the rest of core.19:32
@preactionit shouldn't go in Asset in 8. it would be an AssetHelper19:32
@preactionwe're trying to get rid of the Asset has everything stuff19:32
@frodwithwholeheartedly agree.19:32
+perlDreamerso, does it go into 7.10, or 8, or both?19:33
@frodwithwho is xdanger In Real Life?19:34
@preactionxdanger: why not String::Diff instead of Text::WordDiff?19:34
+perlDreamerxdanger is Jukka19:35
+perlDreamerhe also keeps all of our IRC logs for us at mentalhouse.net19:35
+perlDreamervery nice fellow, and a good hacker19:35
@preactionand if you're interested, i have a branch of WebGUI with tests written for an asset diff function, if you want to take a peek19:35
@frodwithdon't think I've met him though. Pity.19:35
+perlDreameryeah, I don't think he's made a WUC yet19:36
@frodwithwhat part of the world is he from?19:36
@frodwithsounds like europe19:36
@frodwithfinnish maybe19:36
@preactionah, looks like i had planned it being part of Operation::VersionTag19:38
@preactionwell, one part of it19:38
@preactionthen the other part would be in asset, but doesn't matter where that is19:39
@frodwithah, like, "what did this version tag do"19:39
@frodwithI think a similar inteface in both places for 819:39
@frodwithand just on asset for 7.1019:39
+perlDreamergood call, frodwith, he's in Finland19:41
@frodwithanyone else getting test failures on master for t/Workflow/Activity/CalendarUpdateFeeds.t?19:44
+perlDreamerall modules installed?19:44
+perlDreamerbecause it ran clean for last week's release19:44
@frodwithas near as I can tell.19:44
+perlDreamerhm, it's not leap year19:45
+perlDreamerwhat's the failure?19:45
@frodwiththis might just be my branch that's failing though19:48
+perlDreamerI'll check it vs master19:48
@frodwithmm, fails on master for me too, on a different machine19:49
+perlDreamerrunning clean on my source install/master19:50
@frodwithmy setups are mac os/wre something and centos 5.5 wre/latest19:51
+perlDreamerI'll check my CentOS VM19:52
+perlDreamerit's also clean on the VM19:55
+perlDreamerwhich may mean module version differences, or something else19:55
+perlDreameris the webgui.log file clean19:55
+perlDreamerhm, while the VM's up, might as well run a regression19:56
+perlDreamerthe least we can do is make that test more failure friendly19:57
+perlDreamerno sense running all the inside tests if we didn't get an event19:57
+perlDreamerI wish there was a SKIP_REST function for Test::More19:58
+perlDreamerand why isn't there a done_skipping function, like done_testing?20:00
+perlDreamerand why don't I write patches instead of griping about stuff like this?20:00
@frodwithdoes TAP support "skip the rest of the tests"?20:00
+perlDreamergood question.  I would guess not20:01
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+perlDreamerbut if done_testing can be mode to work... ?20:01
scrottie0if memory serves, you have to generate output for the tests being skipped.  so you have to know which tests you're skipping, or how many there are at least.20:01
@frodwithi think dying is the right thing20:01
@frodwithwell, done_testing just outputs a plan at the end20:02
+perlDreamersometimes in interferes with test cleanup20:02
@frodwiththen if you don't see a plan, that's an error20:02
scrottie0there's some logic in there about the highest numbered test it has seen.20:02
@frodwithperldreamer, how come this test requires --live to be on?20:03
+perlDreameruh, it talks to a WebGUI site instance to suck ICAL data out of it?20:03
+perlDreamerso it does a complete test from end to end20:04
+perlDreamerno mockery20:04
@frodwithah i see20:04
+perlDreamerthis all gets easier in 8, with WebGUI::Test::Mechanize, built on top of WWW::Mech::Plack20:04
+perlDreamerWEBGUI_LIVE goes away completely20:05
@frodwithyeah, much easier to fake requests20:05
+perlDreamersince it will hot up a server for us on command20:05
@frodwithone of the very cool things about psgi is the test-friendliness20:06
@frodwithso what seems to be happening, is newEvents comes back with nothing in it20:06
@frodwithperlDreamer: perl -MData::ICal -e 'print $Data::ICal::VERSION'20:11
@frodwithI've got 0.1620:11
+perlDreamerme, too20:11
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@frodwithhmm, nothing funny in the logs.20:13
+perlDreamerhang on, in the VM I was on the wrong branch20:14
+perlDreamerokay, I still get a test failure, but it's not due to not getting an event20:18
+perlDreamerthere's a wrapping issue in the returned data20:18
+perlDreamerwhat I'm seeing might be a problem with Text::vFile::asData20:24
+perlDreamerhm it's not that20:29
+perlDreamerno, I forgot to restart apache when I switched branches20:32
+perlDreameryeah, much better20:32
@frodwithno test failures now, or getting the same one I am?20:32
+perlDreamernow I have no test failures at all for that test20:33
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@frodwithit's failing because i'm not listening on port 8020:47
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+perlDreamerWRE setup problem?20:51
@frodwithadding webServerPort : 8080 to the config file fixes it20:52
@frodwithokay, that's that then :)20:53
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+perlDreamerpreaction: is the AssetManager search interface supposed to be the same as the regular interface with a YUI DataForm and so on?20:57
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+perlDreamernow that's odd21:07
+perlDreamersearching for WebGUI on that site brings up "Visual WebGUI"21:07
+perlDreamerah, there is no WebGUI site in the top 10,000 sites on the internet perhaps?21:08
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mdhoerrInstalled CentOS vmdk21:26
mdhoerrNow I'm trying to download the latest webgui repo21:26
mdhoerrFrom /data/ I run21:27
mdhoerrgit clone https://github.com/plainblack/webgui.git21:27
mdhoerrI get Cloning into webgui ...21:28
mdhoerrfatal: Unable to find remote helper for 'https'21:28
@frodwithyour git is compiled without http support21:29
mdhoerrhow do I compile with http support?21:29
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@frodwithsudo yum install curl-devel.i386, go to git src, ./configure, make, sudo make install21:30
mdhoerrhmm, I installed curl but not curl-devel.i38621:30
@frodwithright, git can't link against libcurl without the headers.21:31
mdhoerrI get curl-devel-7.15.5-9.e15.i386 already installed and latest version Nothing to do21:32
@frodwithgo recompile/reinstall git then21:33
mdhoerrRecompiled and reinstalled. Still get the same error. Does it have something to do with https vs http?21:40
@frodwithI don't think so. libcurl can handle both.21:41
@frodwithwhat's `which git` give you?21:41
+perlDreamerprobably missing openssl support in the VM?21:41
mdhoerrwhich git gives me /data/wre/prereqs/bin/git21:42
mdhoerrI think I have two versions of git21:42
@frodwithyeah, is that where you installed it?21:42
@frodwithlike, ./configure --prefix=/data/wre/prereqs21:43
@frodwithif it's not, try /usr/local/bin/git clone (etc)21:43
@frodwithoh it is21:43
mdhoerrI was going to say no, but that is the ./configure I used21:43
mdhoerrIs there a command to show me all locations of git on my system?21:45
mdhoerrOpenSSl support on my VM? How do I check for that?21:45
@frodwithwhich git shows you the one you get when you type 'git'21:46
@frodwithso, it doesn't matter if you have other ones21:46
@frodwithcentos's curl package should ahve open ssl support21:46
@frodwithbut, simple test, try to clone an http git repo21:46
mdhoerrwhich openssl gives me /data/wre/prereqs/bin/openssl21:46
mdhoerrCan I do the webgui line with http instead of https?21:47
@khennwhat is the difference between cpan and cpanm?21:47
@khennis cpanm really a better version?21:47
@frodwithkhenn: they're completely different codebases.21:47
@khennyeah but the do the same thing right?21:48
@frodwithkhenn: no. cpanm does a lot less.21:48
@khennyeah it seems cpanm was written for linode21:48
mdhoerrNo, I get the same fatal error with http.21:48
@frodwiththe idea is it's a bunch simpler, asks you a lot fewer questions, and works for 90% of the things you would use CPAN.pm for21:49
@frodwithmdhoerr: can you nopaste the output of your ./configure invocation?21:49
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mdhoerrI'm sorry. What does that mean? nopaste?21:52
+perlDreamermdhoerr, I still think that you've exhausted the idea of using the WebGUI vm for doing dev, and should do a new VM with CentOS 5.521:52
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@frodwithmdhoerr: pastebin.com, pastie.com, gist.github.com, something like that.21:53
@frodwithpastie.org rather.  com is parked.21:53
mdhoerrOK. I guess I should used CentOS 5.521:54
@frodwithI don't think which centos you have is the problem, but it couldn't hurt.21:55
CIA-25webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r64eafc6 / t/Workflow/Activity/CalendarUpdateFeeds.t : Skip testing the anniversay event if we didn't get one in the CalendarUpdateFeeds test. - http://bit.ly/gCHurp21:57
CIA-25webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rcfba2e9 / t/Workflow/Activity/CalendarUpdateFeeds.t : Skip testing the anniversay event if we didn't get one in the CalendarUpdateFeeds test. - http://bit.ly/e9mz4e21:57
xdangerfrodwith: yes, I'm from could Finland =)21:57
mdhoerrI'm not really good with command line yet. To use nopaste, you'd have to give the whole command line.21:58
xdanger-25.1 C and I was at karate practice by bicycle =)21:58
@frodwithmdhoerr: I mean, copy the output of the command and slap it into one of those paste services, then paste us the resulting url21:59
@frodwithcommon IRC convention so that you don't clutter the room with the paste21:59
@frodwithlol, putting the port in the config file makes session/url.t fail22:02
@frodwithoh boy22:02
xdangerpreaction: I just searched for diff html and found Text::WordDiff::HTML, I'll have a look at String::Diff... do you have a plan for the diff function?22:04
@preactionxdanger: check the commits in the https://github.com/preaction/webgui/commits/diff repo. there are a couple Asset API methods, one VersionTag API method, and two www_ pages22:05
CIA-25webgui: Paul Driver master * radd2553 / t/Session/Url.t : ignore webServerPort in session/url.t - http://bit.ly/hQnpxR22:11
+perlDreamerwhat's the name of that non-free HTML to PDF converter that used to have a WebGUI plugin?22:18
@khennpreaction:  Will WebGUI run under Perl 5.12?  I assume it will22:18
@preactionmaybe, probably22:18
@khennsorta what I figured22:18
@khenngonna find out soon!22:18
Haargalmost certainly22:25
+perlDreamerit's htmldoc22:25
Haargmdhoerr, you could probably clone using the git: url instead of https22:26
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@khennmeh, can't get Image::Magick to install for some reason.  Punting ...22:44
@scrottieI think I'm doing it but I'm not sure.22:53
@scrottieand I think I might have punted on that too.22:53
@frodwithrevisiting versioned asset metadata: https://github.com/frodwith/webgui/commit/ae3e49d62220bd43ea7d3aa723d1e23c1004fbb322:54
@frodwithpasses all tests with --live on on centos 5.5 with a clean wre install22:54
@frodwithperlDreamer, preaction: I did my best to address the concerns you brought up, thoughts?22:55
@preactionlooks good to me, though is ->toHtml the best idea in getMetaDataAsFormFields? it's for use in the template right?22:57
@frodwithyeah, the idea is that someone building a custom edit form for something can just drop in [% form_fields.foobar %] 22:58
@preactionbut then, i'm not thinking 7.x, i'm thinking 8.x where we have a better form system. so most likely toHtml is correct for 7.x22:58
@preactionso yep, looks great22:59
@preactionexactly what i wanted. we can start phasing out userDefinedField and phasing this in22:59
@frodwithsomething did occur to me earlier23:02
@frodwith$client tends to build assets on one site and use packages to deploy them to a bunch of other sites23:02
@frodwithand metadata isn't included (I don't think) in packages23:02
@preactionthat could certainly be added23:03
@preactionbut i think they'd really be better served with a more robust sync method, i've written notes on one under the heading WebGUI Network23:03
@frodwithproblem is, different sites have different metadata fields23:03
@preactionNetwork would sync that23:04
@preactionyay for wrapping....23:05
@frodwithnothing Readability can't fix23:05
@preactionTL;DR - one site creates a Network, owns the network and controls it. Other sites can then use the Network as the owner allows, moving changes in content, users, settings, workflow, and etc... between sites23:06
@preactionit's mostly geared to replace/extend packages, but in my head it's for users, groups, settings, and everything else too23:07
@frodwiththis is something you're planning for 8, or 9, or what/23:08
@preactionjust ideas23:08
@preactionif i can get funding, they could become reality, but i remember WebGUI Filesystem23:09
@frodwithit does sound like something $client would be interested in.23:09
@preactionthey inspired most of it23:09
@preactionthey kept telling me how they did things, and i was horrified :p23:10
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ckotilWGFS would be great. ive got users begging for some dropbox support23:58
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@preactionanyone think it would be a bad thing for the Address Book to continually set the last-used address as the Default Address, pulled to auto-populate the next address form?05:53
@preactionalso, would it be better to have a WebGUI::Form::Address control instead of the individual homeAddress, homeCity, homeState, homeZip profile fields?06:00
@preactionForm::Address being a single WebGUI::Shop::Address item, or something06:01
@preactionno, i don't like that. make Profile reliant on Shop06:01
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xdangerpreaction: I'd like to have the ability to disable showing the homeState field, since it's not needed in many coutries07:54
@preactionyou can delete that field08:20
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sbaurhey preaction and perlDreamer, did you see the bounces from server39 when it tried to send to monitors@pb?18:03
+perlDreamerare you sending SPAM from your server?18:03
sbaurdo you consider logwatches to be spam?18:03
sbaura lot of students sign up with bogus/wrong email addresses, so we do get a fair amount of bounces of our welcome message, and the from address is certainly used by others to send spam18:05
+perlDreamerthat's what I guessed happened18:05
+perlDreamerif it happens again, then we'll look into it18:05
sbaurok, do you need/want me to forward the logwatch(s) that bounced?18:06
+perlDreamernot unless there's something bad that we need to know about18:06
+perlDreameryou're not running out of diskspace?18:06
sbaurnot yet :-)18:06
+bartjolah, let's script that bad login then, that'll fill the disk18:07
sbaurvery funny bartjol18:08
* bartjol always tries to be helpfull :P18:09
sbaurbut maybe adding some sort of fail2ban rules to the firewall might be a good idea --Is that something you setup for folks?18:09
+perlDreamerif that's something that you'd like setup, it would be best if you filed a ticket for it18:10
+perlDreamerwe can look into it from them18:10
* sbaur still thinking about it18:12
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CIA-25webgui: Paul Driver master * rae3e49d / (14 files in 11 dirs): Versioned Metadata - http://bit.ly/e1Bnhh19:30
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+perlDreamerlooks beautiful, frodwith19:40
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--- Log opened Sat Feb 19 15:09:37 2011
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knowmadHola, amigos. Is anyone around in IRC?23:26
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Gettywe all hide23:38
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--- Log opened Mon Feb 21 02:06:54 2011
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@frodwithmorning SDuensin :)17:13
@frodwithdoes anyone know what our minimum supported perl version is?17:14
@frodwithfor the 7.10 series?17:14
SDuensinNot I.17:14
* SDuensin uses that WRE thing.17:14
@frodwithyeah, wre has come with 5.10 for a long time17:15
@frodwithI'm just writing some code and wondering if I can use a 5.10 feature or not17:15
@frodwithif we support perl < 5.10, then I can't17:15
+bartjolfrom 5.10?17:16
@frodwithlike, I want to use a lexical $_17:16
+bartjoloh, eeh reading is difficult17:16
+bartjolfrom testEnv:17:18
+bartjolprintTest("Perl Interpreter");17:18
+bartjolif ($] >= 5.008) {17:18
+bartjol        printResult("OK");17:18
@frodwithah, that answers that.  Thanks bartjol :)17:18
+bartjolthat is 7.10.latest17:18
@frodwithi'll have to ask preaction when he gets in, if we can start depending on 5.10 or better.17:19
@frodwithnot cause I need lexical $_ so badly, but because it's 201117:19
+bartjolI do suppose that building on 5.7 or earlier will be hell for some WebGUI perl dependancies17:24
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+perlDreamerHappy President's Day, folks18:06
+bartjolpresident's day?18:20
+bartjolok, we have queen's day18:20
+perlDreameriirc, President's Day is for remembering the birthdays of Washington and Lincoln18:24
+bartjolso, it is drinking day over there?18:24
+bartjolqueen's day here is accompanied with heavy drinking buying old crap on the street18:25
+perlDreamermust be a good day for the old crap sellers!18:25
+bartjolit is18:25
+perlDreamerbreakfast time, bbiab18:27
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xdangerfrodwith: 8.0 depends on 5.10 because of the smart matches18:51
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+danny_mkhello everone18:55
+danny_mkdoes anyone use sql reports to create <select> boxes and other html items?18:59
+perlDreamerI use code to do that19:02
+danny_mkyou mean like macros?19:02
+perlDreameror a WebGUI::Form plugin19:03
+danny_mksure, the problem here is that I need to query a separate database to get the values for <option>...19:05
+danny_mkDoing it in WebGUI::Form plugin does not help19:05
+perlDreamerif you built a SQL Report for it, then it has a databaseLinkId19:06
+perlDreamerthat means that any code in WebGUI can do this19:06
+danny_mkhmmm... I have to take a look at that19:07
+perlDreamerdoing it that way allows you do use SQL to get your data, but then Perl to massage it19:11
+perlDreamerI don't like massaging in SQL19:11
+danny_mkOK, probably I will get stuck on this one.  Before I go down this road, and I do what you suggested, can you tell me if I can build a <form method="post">...</form> the way you suggested?19:28
+perlDreamerdanny_mk, how about if we take a step backwards, and try to get an overview of what you're trying to do?19:29
+perlDreamerwhat kind of thing are you trying to build, that you need a form?19:29
+danny_mkOK, we have a separate application built outside webgui (java), we want to create reports based on that data, however I need some parameters based on that other database19:31
+danny_mkto build specific reports based on the parameters we retrieved from that database19:32
+perlDreamerand that explains the SQL Report19:32
+perlDreamerfor that, you definitely want to use a Macro19:32
+perlDreamerthe Form plugin won't help19:32
+perlDreamersince you can't call form plugins directly in tempaltes19:33
+danny_mkfor example: select id, employee name from ...  will have to produce <select name="empid"><option value="...">...19:33
+perlDreamermaybe you could use the SQL Macro for that19:33
+perlDreamerinstead of building a custom one19:33
+perlDreamerare you familiar with that macro?19:34
+danny_mkah, that is what I thought and that is why I though about using an article as a form to post to a sql report19:34
+perlDreameryou'd need to build the HTML code for the form manually19:35
+danny_mkyes, that is why the template I suggested may work then I can just use ^AssetProxy(...); to insert the fields into the form19:36
+danny_mkyes, build a sql report using the template that I suggested then use AssetProxy to insert that report(select field) into the form19:39
+perlDreamerthe problem with AssetProxy is that it proxies full Assets19:40
+perlDreamerso editing controls and everything19:40
+perlDreamerand it seems kind of overkill to use a an Asset to do what you can do with a Macro19:40
+perlDreamerbut if it works, then it works19:41
+danny_mkOK, maybe I should consider a macro, what is the ->db... syntax to use a specific db link?19:46
+perlDreamerIt wouldn't use the $session->db, that's access back to WebGUI's session19:47
+perlDreameryou'd use the DatabaseLink API to grab a foreign database19:47
+perlDreameror, use the SQL Macro19:47
+danny_mkthank you.19:49
+perlDreamerfrodwith: how does variable scoping work in TT?19:54
@frodwithwhat do you mean, exactly?19:55
+perlDreamerwell, I was looking at the HT->TT converter19:55
+perlDreamerand all loops get the same variable name, ITEM19:55
+perlDreamerand it got me to thinking about nested loops19:55
+perlDreamerand then scoping19:55
@frodwithwhat's your concern?19:56
+perlDreamerif I nest loops, will one ITEM stomp on the other?19:56
sbaurhaving been playing around lately, I can't figure out a way to get a variable to scope larger than the block it's in19:56
@frodwithwell, depends what you mean by stomp19:56
+perlDreamerpseudocode follows19:56
+perlDreamer[%foreach ITEM in loop1; foreach [ITEM] %] [%foreach ITEM in ITEM.inner_loop; foreach [ITEM] %]19:57
@frodwithit won't do that, it'll do...19:58
@frodwith[%foreach ITEM in loop1; foreach [ITEM] %] [%foreach ITEM in inner_loop; foreach [ITEM] %]19:58
@frodwiththe foreach item; foreach [item] construct is used to emulate H::T's scoping rules19:58
+perlDreamerand the inner ITEM won't interfere with the OUTER item?19:59
@frodwiththey're....  not lexically scoped, but block-scoped20:00
@frodwithi guess you'd say they're dynamically scoped? *thinks*20:00
@frodwithnnnnnnnnno, not exactly that.20:01
+perlDreamersounds like a "local"20:01
+perlDreameror my20:01
@frodwithyeah, it's sort of a cross between those20:01
sbaurso frodwith, i was running into the opposite problem. and couldn't figure out how to use a value from one loop in a subsequent loop. Is there some way to do that?20:01
@frodwithsure sbaur20:01
@frodwithcan you give me an example?20:02
sbaursure, just a sec20:03
+perlDreamertoday, I thought about building a script that would make a WebGUI package of very template converted to TT20:04
@frodwiththat'd be handy :)20:05
sbaurso, it's a SQL Report template that I translated to TT some time ago (by hand) I wanted to make note of the column that contained the "entryData" while iterating in the columns_loop and then use that while in the row_field_loop20:06
@frodwithrow_field_loop is inside columns_loop?20:06
sbaurso i could treat the data in that column specially, specifically trying to deal with the JSON that it is store as20:07
sbaurcolumns loop is at the same level as rows_loop, which contains row_field_loop20:07
sbaurbut the value never stuck around in the row_field_loop, even though it was set in the columns_loop correctly20:08
sbaurhttp://webgui.pastebin.com/8i4HzTkD has my simplified test20:09
sbaurI also just tried creating an enclosing block and defining the variable there, but again, it stubbornly stayed scoped to the most inside block20:10
@frodwiththat's odd20:17
@frodwithwhat do you get when you run...20:17
sbauri am in WG 7.6.x if that has something to do with anything20:18
sbaurI get a 120:23
@frodwithyeah, that's what you should get.  Hmm.20:23
@frodwithCan you nopaste me the relevant values for the variables you're using? (hint: Template::Plugin::Dumper)20:24
@frodwithjust want to know what all's in columns_loop and rows_loop20:25
sbaurI need a bigger hint :-) how do I get all that?20:25
@frodwith[% USE Dumper %] <p> [% Dumper.dump_html(columns_loop) %] </p> <p>[% Dumper.dump_html(rows_loop) %]</p>20:27
@frodwithsomething like that should do20:27
sbaurthank you. it's at http://webgui.pastebin.com/JaA7EwRT20:28
@frodwithhow interesting!20:36
@frodwithif you do [% FOREACH loop %], it starts a new context, and assignments within that context go into that context20:36
@frodwithif you do [% FOREACH named IN loop %], then it doesn't start a new context20:36
@frodwithso if you change your column loop to [% FOREACH col IN columns_loop %] then your [% col = loop.count %] will work the way you expect20:37
@frodwithnot that, cause you'd overwrite col20:37
@frodwithbut you get the picture20:37
@frodwith[% FOREACH c IN columns_loop %] [% IF c.column_name ...20:37
@frodwithalternatively, you could start up an array outside the loop [% array = [] %] and do [% array[0] = 'my value %] ... [% array[0] %]20:39
@preactionfrodwith: 5.10 features are 8.0 only, unfortunately20:39
@frodwithokay, preaction20:39
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@preactiondoes the 8.x definition stuff support merging properties like you can merge moose attributes? something like property '+templateId' => ( namespace => 'newNamespace' )20:46
@preactionif it doesn't, it sounds like something we should do20:47
sbaurso, if I change the column loop to [% FOREACH c IN columns_loop %];  <td class="tableHeader">[% column_name %] </td>; [% END %] nothing prints anymore20:53
sbauraha, thank you20:54
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sbaurok, I'll experiment further. hopefully i now have all the pieces I need to make this work. Thank you very much20:55
@frodwithno problem :)20:55
+perlDreamerpreaction: I don't know if WebGUI::Definition allows that or not21:10
+perlDreamerbut it would be simple to write a test to try it21:10
@preactioni think it doesn't, which means i should probably add it, as there is otherwise no way to override a property21:10
+perlDreamerI think you can walk the metaclass and do it manually21:11
+perlDreamerbut it's much easier to allow overrides21:11
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CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re04208e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Document new version perl required for the updated *Packer modules. Fixes bug #12049. - http://bit.ly/hSzRNd23:45
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HaargperlDreamer, those packer modules require 5.8.923:54
CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r116a3c2 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Content/AssetManager.pm): In the Asset Manager search window, let the title of the asset be a link to view the asset. Fixes bug #12048. - http://bit.ly/gDEAfa23:54
CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r6d94374 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Content/AssetManager.pm): In the Asset Manager search window, let the title of the asset be a link to view the asset. Fixes bug #12048. - http://bit.ly/fui8cN23:55
+perlDreamer$] doesn't give you access to the lower version number23:55
+perlDreamerand we can't count on use VERSION/require VERSION working on earlier perls23:55
Haarglower version number?23:56
+perlDreamerperl -le 'print $];'23:56
+perlDreameron 5.8 perl's, you'll see 5.00800823:56
+perlDreamernm, I'm one dot off23:57
CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * redabec5 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Put change notice in the right place. - http://bit.ly/h5ohuu23:59
--- Day changed Tue Feb 22 2011
CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r44039fd / (docs/gotcha.txt sbin/testEnvironment.pl): >5.8.8 <> >= 5.8.8 - http://bit.ly/hhYE4S00:13
+perlDreamerpreaction: re this bug: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/1189300:26
+perlDreamerCan I move it to the WebGUI 8 board, since we won't be fixing it in 7?00:27
CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re833d47 / t/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.t : Update this test to duplicate the encoding done in the Matrix. - http://bit.ly/gpIQ9i00:30
CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r2937063 / t/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.t : Update this test to duplicate the encoding done in the Matrix. - http://bit.ly/eHhQHq00:30
@preactionperlDreamer: sure00:31
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Haargfigured i would try out using Hook::BeforeRuntime instead of the ugly hackery i used in WebGUI::Upgrade::Script.  got this:01:59
Haargforced to realloc PL_linestr for line use WebGUI::Upgrade::Script;, bailing out before we crash harder01:59
Haargguess i won't be doing that01:59
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+perlDreamerpreaction: before I go destroying something that could be considered a feature...02:13
+perlDreamerplease review this bug: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/1205002:13
Haargthinking about perl point releases, it might be good to require perl 5.10.1 for wg8 instead of just 5.1002:19
Haargthings like the smart match changes might make it easier to mandate the newer version02:20
+perlDreamernot to mention the bug fixes02:21
@preactionwhy would an export use the cached query?02:22
+perlDreamerpreaction, maybe so that you can export what you just saw02:22
+perlDreamerbut, it's so freakin' far fetched that I don't really believe that02:22
+perlDreamerworking with the Thingy is like cleaning a cat litter box02:22
+perlDreamerwith your hands02:22
@preactionso then it shouldn't be using the cached query?02:22
+perlDreamerI don't think so02:22
+perlDreamerbut if it's some edge feature that lets you download what you just searched for?02:23
+perlDreamerthat's why I thought I'd ask someone who isn't currrently PO'ed at Thingy02:23
+perlDreamerlevel head, clear thoughts, etc.02:23
+perlDreamerI verified everything that I found02:24
@preactionwhen i see "export", i think "get all the data so I can import it into something else"02:25
+perlDreamerthat's what I think, too02:25
+perlDreamerand why in the world would you cache a string?02:25
+perlDreamerit's not like they're hard to build...02:25
@preactionis the string very difficult to build?02:25
@preactionif it's not, then stop caching it02:25
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+perlDreamerwell, even if it's cached, it's leaky02:26
+perlDreamerthose lines are part of the original import of Thingy02:27
+perlDreamerso no history to see why the caching was added02:27
CIA-98webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rb2c1110 / lib/WebGUI/Upgrade/Script.pm : refactor some of the upgrade script code - http://bit.ly/hCAO3302:28
Haargi think it's pretty safe to assume that most behaviors of thingy are by change, not design02:28
+perlDreamerI've been doing a lot of day dreaming recently02:29
+perlDreamerand I'd really like to smash Thing02:29
+perlDreamerget rid of it as a container02:29
+perlDreamerer, get rid of Thingy as a container asset02:30
+perlDreamerand just have Thing's02:30
Haargwould probably make more sense than the current setup02:30
+perlDreamerall righty, out it goes02:30
@preactionwhat are we going to do to upgrade people?02:33
+perlDreamerI like using a recombinant virus02:33
@preactionwill that be fast enough to prevent rejection?02:34
+perlDreameryou, JT and Jamie didn't seem to mind02:34
@preactioni was under the impression that Thing would become a Wobject, not that Thingy could be removed entirely. there needs to be an upgrade path02:35
@preactionor Thingy 2.0, whereupon Thingy is removed, Thing becomes a wobject, and everyone lives happily ever after02:35
+perlDreamerwhen I actually get the time to think carefully about it, I'll make a detailed plan and publish it for your review02:35
@preactionlots of people are using Thingy, which is why i worry02:36
+perlDreamersince Thingy provides core asset/wobject properties, and 2 custom properties (templateId, defaultThingId)02:36
+perlDreamerI don't think it'd be too difficult to do02:36
+perlDreamermy daydream upgrade path is this02:37
+perlDreamerthrow out Thingy completely02:37
+perlDreamerturn each Thing into an Asset02:37
+perlDreamerif defaultThingId is set, that becomes a parent for the other Things' which get moved below it02:37
+perlDreamerif not set, then they are all peers02:37
@preactioni like the idea that Thing can either be inside Thingy or not, then we can phase out Thingy in a future version02:37
@preactionso Thing would see it had other Things inside of it, and would provide navigation for those Things?02:38
+perlDreamerNavigation is done by Navigation assets02:38
@preactionbut navigating Things is done by Thingy02:38
+perlDreamerbecause Thing's aren't assets02:39
+perlDreamerif they were assets, then you wouldn't need Thingy for that02:39
+perlDreamerwe have other assets which do that02:39
@preactionbut you can't/don't have a navigation for them right now, so you'd have to add one to the page the Thingy is on in order to have a smooth upgrade02:39
@preactionby smooth i mean "looks and works the same as before"02:40
+perlDreamerwell, if that's a constraint, then I probably wouldn't do it02:40
+perlDreamersince I have never seen a time when Thingy navigation was used for anything other than providing a defaultThing interface02:41
+perlDreamerbut I haven't seen every Thingy out there, either02:41
@preactionthere's a Manage Things link, if you want to get to the non-default thing02:41
+perlDreamerright, but that function can be subsumed by the Asset Manager02:42
+perlDreamersince Things are assets now02:42
@preactionif you have permissions to the asset manager02:42
@preactionmanage things isn't also the only way to get to see the things?02:42
+perlDreamerit's not?02:43
+perlDreamerif defaultThing isn't set, you can see them in view02:43
+perlDreamerbut it does do a permission check02:44
@preactionbut if default thing is set, how do i get to them?02:44
+perlDreameryou view the Thingy, which shows you that THing's preferred interface02:44
+perlDreamerthen, from there you go to Manage Things02:44
@preactionand that's the only way? there's no other way unless i can manage the things to get to the other things in the thingy?02:45
+perlDreamerwell, like I said, if a defaultThing is set, that's what you do02:45
+perlDreamerotherwise, you get a list of Things in the Thingy view method02:45
+perlDreamerthat's it02:45
@preactionwhat's the drop-down thing in the grey bar above the thing data?02:46
@preactionis that there for everybody?02:46
+perlDreamerkind of...02:48
+perlDreamerthe template logic screens out things that the user cannot view02:49
+perlDreamerbut, if there's nothing that he can view, the dropdown is there anyway02:49
+perlDreamerand it takes you to the view interface02:49
+perlDreamernot the manage interface where you can edit the Thingy02:49
@preactionokay, but that's a navigation that would have to be created, or would it be acceptable to ask users to make a Navigation? 02:50
+perlDreamerI don't think it would be out of line to ask people to create a navigation02:50
+perlDreamerbut I don't often worry very much about UI level changes like that02:51
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@preactioni just imagine the flood of bug reports and support requests: Where did my dropdown go? I can't get to my other Things!02:53
@preactionand i remember the guy who learned how to save word documents because it was the fourth icon from the left, not because it looked like a disk.02:53
* perlDreamer has to jet off to pick up kids02:54
+perlDreamerI'll backlog later02:54
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+perlDreamerpreaction: monthly spam on webgui.org is cleaned up, again06:51
+perlDreamerhave you reset your password on sf yet?07:07
CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r70cdc25 / docs/create.sql : Ready for 7.10.10 release - http://bit.ly/emwqcm07:09
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CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc9003e3 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.11 development. - http://bit.ly/eKkdqW07:36
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SDuensinMorning gang.16:33
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+perlDreameryay!  i have a SF password again23:15
+perlDreamerafter their breakin, they reset everyone's passwords23:16
+perlDreamerand you can reset it via email23:16
+perlDreamerexcept SF still points to an old, crufty email I had setup23:16
+perlDreamerwhich I no longer have access for23:16
+perlDreamerand the script to change your email doesn't work23:16
sbaurhow'd you finally get it straightened out?23:17
+perlDreamerthey have support people hanging out in IRC in #sourceforge23:17
sbaurIRC to the rescue :)23:18
Haargoh lovely.  i can log in to my account, but can't change the email or password on it.23:23
+perlDreamerI'm surprised you could even log in23:24
+perlDreamerit wouldn't let me23:24
+perlDreameris it still pointing to your pb email address?23:25
+perlDreamerover in #sourceforge, there is a nice guy named ctsai-sf who can help you out23:25
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@preactionhow much would you all kill me if we used perl5i in WebGUI core?23:39
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+perlDreamerpreaction: what do you want from perl5i that we can't add with modules?23:53
@preactionnothing really, just wondering23:53
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+perlDreamerpreaction: I'd like to borrow your brains01:03
@preactionborrow? sir you may have them01:03
+perlDreamermight need a hand and an eyeball or two01:03
+perlDreamerthis is more Thingy psychic readings01:03
+perlDreamerwhen you view the data in a thing, it calls01:03
+perlDreamerin getViewThingVars it defines01:04
+perlDreamer$var->{viewScreenTitle} = join(" ",@viewScreenTitleFields);01:04
+perlDreamerbut, in the template (wgd edit ThingyTmpl000000000002)01:04
+perlDreamerwe have01:04
+perlDreamer<h2 class="title"><tmpl_var title><tmpl_if viewScreenTitle> <span class="smaller">&bull; View</span></tmpl_if></h2>01:04
@preactionthat looks weird01:05
+perlDreamerWhy in the world would you want a bunch of random words concatenated to the title?01:05
+perlDreamerit could even be a HTMLArea, for kicks and giggles01:05
+perlDreameroh, and the getViewThingVars doesn't have any template variable help01:06
+perlDreamerHave you ever heard Bill Cosby describe a "conniption"?01:07
+perlDreamerwell, it's a bit involved01:08
@preactionbut i've got a hell of a sinus headache brewing for the last couple days, so imma go lie down01:08
+perlDreamerflesh sliding off your skull while your eyeballs shoot fire01:08
@preactionyeah, if that'll relieve the pressure, why not01:08
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HaargperlDreamer, @viewScreenTitleFields doesn't have words in it01:51
+perlDreamerHaarg, I'm pretty sure it does02:03
+perlDreamerit pushes $value onto the @viewScreenTitleFields array02:03
+perlDreamerand $value is the value of the field02:03
HaargviewScreenTitle is a checkbox if i'm reading this right02:04
+perlDreamerare we looking at the same code?02:04
Haargwell no02:05
+perlDreamerline 124002:05
+perlDreamerthen 1267 and -802:05
+perlDreamerso it checks permission to do it02:05
+perlDreamerbut what gets pushed is $value02:05
+perlDreamernot a binary02:05
+perlDreamerone of those b-words02:05
Haargoh, yeah02:05
Haargok, i missed that02:06
Haargit's being used as a boolean though.  i don't know.  Thingy code so i don't expect it to make sense.02:09
+perlDreamerit's undocumented, and used as a boolean02:10
+perlDreamerI think it should only be a boolean02:10
+perlDreamerand not appending lots of random words into the Thingy title02:11
Haargall it does is add &bull; View to the title.  makes no sense.02:11
+perlDreamerwell, it looks nice, but as to the worth of it... ?02:12
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+danny_mkHello everyone, is anyone else trying to use webgui as the front end "authorization/user manager" to multiple web applications possibly built with other languages? 16:31
+bartjoldanny_mk: well, I am not16:33
+danny_mkwell, I like to use webgui as the user manager as it has a pretty intuitive interface and my users can manage their accounts without too much instruction16:35
+danny_mkplus I can place those users in "groups" that grant them access to other applications written in Java/Groovy/...16:36
+danny_mkhowever, this cross domain cookie stuff is really a problem 16:36
+danny_mkwas just looking for a best practice or at least a recommendation16:37
+bartjolwell, my first feeling would be to go ldap16:38
@frodwithbartjol++, that sounds like a good idea.16:38
+bartjolwhich is build into webgui and is easy to apply in apache16:39
+danny_mkwell, that solves it from the server perspective but I am more concerned about the browser, the browser is the problem not so much the server side16:39
+bartjolyou want single sign on?16:40
+danny_mkyes, something like that16:40
+bartjolwell cross domain cookies isn't something you really want I suspect16:41
+danny_mkyes, that is exactly what I want16:41
+danny_mkhowever some browsers refuse to "honor" the .mydomain.com 16:41
+bartjolwhich is kinda understandable16:42
+danny_mkor cookies become stale in domain b.mydomain.com while active in a.mydomain.com16:42
SDuensinI've though about using WebGUI this way as well.  Do I understand correctly that WebGUI does not write back to LDAP, just reads?16:42
+danny_mkYou know what would help, if webgui had a "webservice" only accessible from "designated" hosts that would respond with userprofilefields{ userId : ... } just by querying such a service with a session id16:44
+danny_mkshould not be difficult to write but wondering if this would be a good approach16:45
+danny_mkaccessing the data directly from the database will definitely break if the database table layout changes16:46
SDuensinWhat I ended up doing was replacing the "WebGUI" auth module with my own and then let other systems borrow the data directly out of the database.  Not the best, but it worked for what I needed at the time.16:46
+danny_mksure, that is what I do today, however I need a better solution as this approach is pretty restrictive and I would have to watch out for db/table changes16:47
SDuensinYou can always roll your own WObject or Asset or something to provide the JSON feed you want.16:48
+danny_mkLOL, of course, was hoping you would write it for me :-P16:48
SDuensinNo!  You write it for me!  :-P16:48
+danny_mkwell, for use16:49
+danny_mkuse = us16:49
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+danny_mkis the source for 8 still on github?17:24
+danny_mkwas looking around and could not find it, am I missing something?17:24
+danny_mkpreaction: do you have db update scripts when upgrading the helpdesk?17:26
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+bartjolit should be17:31
+danny_mkOK, I did not look under branch list, still getting used to github.  Thank you.17:36
@preactionupgrade helpdesk?17:55
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elninowhat's tavis email again?18:54
elninoanyone here have a agency account?18:58
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+danny_mkpreaction: sorry walked away to a meeting, yes, I was missing a field in one of the helpdesk tables19:27
@preactiondunno, helpdesk was never officially released as a supported bit of webgui19:29
+danny_mkOK, I just added the field manually so it works now19:30
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@khennperlDreamer:  question for you on skype21:18
+perlDreamerThis must be: Beat the crap out of Thing week21:21
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+danny_mkLOL, yup22:00
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@khennwhere can I find mysql errors in the wre?23:17
@khennwhere would the logs be that is?23:17
@preactiondo we agree that WebGUI/Asset*.pm is a bad idea? I can start consolidating it all into WebGUI/Asset.pm23:32
@preactionAssetBranch has only one sub now, for example23:33
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plainhaowhat happened?23:55
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SDuensin"Must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays."16:36
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+bartjolmmm, is the translation server svn working again?19:00
+bartjoldoesn'y look like it19:01
+perlDreamerperhaps next week there will be time for fixing it19:07
+perlDreameractually, I'll start looking into it now19:15
+bartjolwhoohoo! go Collin!, go Collin!19:16
* bartjol is making a silly dance19:16
+perlDreamerI think that getting the translation server up may be a lot simpler than resurrecting the SVN browser19:20
+perlDreameris that an acceptable compromise, my giddy friend?19:20
+bartjolwel the server itself is up right19:24
+bartjolI'm confused in definitions19:24
+bartjolI don't need the svn browser itself19:27
+bartjoljust to get the changed stored in svn/git19:28
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym and thinks more about this19:39
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scrottieI'm thinking of using a Thingie.  or proposing using it, as an alternative to users uploading Excel spreadsheets.23:31
scrottieis this use case realistic?  random site users would add one of these to another asset they already own.  each would have the same set of fields but the user would populate it with data for general display.23:33
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scrottiemaybe I should just be using a YUI control here...23:33
@preactionno, that's a valid use-case for Thingy23:35
@preactionalternatively DataTable, but Thingy probably better idea23:35
@preactionthough if they want something even better better, colin might be able to provide some insight on what he wants to do with Thingy23:36
scrottiea Form control would be preferable to an asset.  hrm.  leaning towards DataTable.  looks like it offers user editing features for YUI datatable.23:40
@preactionthere is WebGUI::Form::DataTable as well, if you just want to add that to some random page23:47
@preactionthe core functions of the DataTable asset are in that control really23:47
scrottieright.  WebGUI::Form::DataTable.23:47
@preactionthere's also Form::JsonTable, which may or may not work for your purposes23:47
@preactioni think i went crazy with those two things23:47
@preactionoh, right, i was eventually going to make one a subclass of the other: JsonTable is a static schema. datatable is a dynamic schema23:48
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@preactionCrazy Idea of the Day: What if WebGUI::Admin was the JS interface to Assets? it's already a hugely JS app, what if we extended it a bit so that the API could be used anywhere?00:06
@frodwiththat's not a crazy idea00:06
@preactioni mean, i already have to build a JS interface for the actual Admin console? what's wrong with using that JS interface outside the Admin Console?00:06
@frodwiththat's the most sensible thing I've ever heard you say00:06
@preactionso i'll build these APIs on the idea that they can be used outside the AC00:07
scrottienever reuse code.  always get a clean code shooting up.00:09
+perlDreamerno sense writing them twice00:09
@preactionwrench in the works: i need to edit multiple assets at once. best way i can see for that is to send a JSON payload00:10
@frodwithnuffin wrong with json payloads00:10
@preactiontrue, and who cares because it'll be wrapped in an API00:10
scrottiehrm.  not seeing an example of letting the user add a row to a DataTable.  guess I could make a button that bangs the API.  still, seems like it would be an option.  guess I should look at the API docs, not just the examples.  hrm.00:11
+perlDreamerit's a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in an API00:11
+perlDreamerscrottie, if the user can edit the datatable, they can add a row to it00:11
@preactionscrottie: it's in www/extras/yui-webgui/form/dataTable.js iirc, that creates the buttons with the action to create a row00:11
+perlDreamerthere's not a "front-facing" api currently00:12
@preactionand i apologize, YUI DataTable is jacked, so I had to do some really really crazy stuff in there00:12
scrottiepreaction:  programmers will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.00:13
@preactioni was innocent! it was the bunnies I swear it was the bunnies!00:14
@preactiondilemma: Cut and Copy are now AssetHelpers, and are overridable. should the Asset Manager find the right Cut operation or use the generic Cut operation?01:03
@preactionor should I name the helpers and any helper with the name "cut" would do the cut operation?01:04
@preactioni'm thinking names: it would allow more flexibility in making admin tools that work on multiple assets01:06
+perlDreamerI'd expect it to use my custom Cut operation in the Asset Manager01:14
+perlDreamerI know we can define Asset Helpers, but can we introspect them?01:14
+perlDreamerlike, asking, "Hey, what do I use for cut?"01:14
@preactionnot presently, that's what i'm considering changing01:15
@preactionit's an array of hashrefs right now, thinking of making it a hash of hashrefs instead01:15
@preactionit could have some interesting side-effects at least01:17
@preactionbut it also leaves some things to convention: "cut", "copy", etc...01:17
@preactionif someone replaces "cut" with some null operation, you can't cut the asset01:17
@preactiondunno if that's good or bad01:17
+perlDreamerthat's bad01:17
+perlDreamerwell, if we allow people to change it, I guess we have to live with it01:18
@preactionbut then, i as the framework designer should not be making that decision for the app author01:18
+perlDreamerah, but fortunately, you're both!01:18
@preactionif they want to screw up how i think the framework should work, that's fine01:18
@preactionright, but this is completely a framework decision here01:18
@preactioni mean, I can't see a reason to misuse this, but that's not a reason to do or not do it01:19
@preactionlong story short: I have a set of assets i need to cut, should I have a cut sub in Admin that I call? or should i call the individual helpers themselves?01:20
@preactioni can't see why i should have www_cut in two places01:20
@preactionand the helper already knows how to do everything in the most efficient manner possible for the admin console01:20
@preactionbut it's only for one asset, so i'd need to call it multiple times, each time would fork, etc...01:21
@preactionwell, actually, i don't know what the helper would do. someone might replace it with a different helper01:22
@preactionand i'd have to follow the complete path through the helper, dialog boxes and everything01:22
@preactionhmm... helpers probably won't work here then01:22
+perlDreamerbut if you give the user one Cut in the Asset, and another in the Asset Manager...01:23
+perlDreamernot consistent01:23
@preactionyep, thus the dilemma thickens01:23
+perlDreamerso, either the idea of customizing Cut is bad01:23
+perlDreameror we have to find a way to use them01:23
@preactionthere's already a hook in asset if one wants custom functionality in a cut01:23
@preactionbut even so, the normal cut opens a dialog with a progress bar01:24
@preactionso if one wants custom cut function in an asset, they should override cut(), not add a different helper.01:25
@preactionwonder if i can find a way to subsume a progress bar and have it alter a different bar instead01:25
@preactionorrrr i could open a dialog and have part of it be the asset helper's iframe bit01:26
@preactionso the top bit says "hey we're working on the Cut AssetHelper for THIS_ASSET" and the bottom bit is the dialog for that helper01:27
@preactionwow this is not a fun problem...01:27
@preactionnamed asset helpers sounds like a good idea though01:29
@preactionand then the asset helpers that the asset manager uses need to be aware they're going to also be part of a larger dialog01:29
@preactiondoes that sound evil? am i missing anything?01:29
@preactioni imagine being able to add other buttons to the manager that do other helper tasks like Export HTML, or Export Package or Create Shortcut or Resize Image or something01:30
@preactionso if i need to resize a bunch of images, it'd pop up the dialog for each in turn01:30
@preactionand since this is the same interface as the Search, i'd be able to Search and then do the exact same thing!01:31
@preactionhmm... liking this more now01:31
@preactionand then in the update rank case i can instead build www_saveJson as an asset method and call that, having it be aware of asset and assetData of course (if assetData is changed, do versioning stuf)01:35
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@preactionokay, crisis over, what was decided?03:03
@preactionAsset Manager would call helpers or update urls for each individual asset03:03
@preactionobjections from the floor?03:03
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ckotilbout time17:01
ckotilI noticed that rtf2txt.pl is called by the search.pm index script, but it doesnt seem to have been packaged in the wre. any ideas where I can find it, or what to use to replace it?17:02
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scrottiewhat's up perps?20:10
scrottiewhat happened to that asset diff patch?20:11
scrottierabble rousers.20:12
@frodwithYou're a rabble rouser.20:18
@preactionVIVE LE REVOLUCION!20:19
+perlDreamerGo unions!20:24
@frodwithMmm, collective bargainy.20:25
scrottiemeanwhile, in Arizona:  http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/phoenix-activist-is-arrested-at-state-capitol20:25
ckotilanyone else hear the soundbyte from the state assmembly last night? lots of rabble during the closing statement.20:25
ckotilyou could barely hear the guy say meeting adjourned because so many people were shouting and yelling.20:26
scrottieyou guys should elect Sheriff Joe.  if anyone protests anything he doesn't like, he just arrests all of them for not having a permit.  if they go to get a permit, he arrests them for trespassing.20:32
scrottieit's a utopia.  no protests!20:32
+perlDreamertrespassing is illegal20:32
+perlDreamerin most states and municipalities20:33
scrottieperlDreamer:  are you trespassing when you go to the county clerk's office of the court house after going through a metal dectector and following the signs to the window where you apply for permits?20:34
scrottieduring business hours?20:34
scrottienever having been convicted of any crime and not subject to any restraining order?20:35
+perlDreamerno.  Of course, if you accost the clerk and don't actually apply for a permit, then you wouldn't be guilt of trespassing, but something else.20:35
xdangerscrottie: About the diff... I did a quick hack, and preaction has a better plan =)21:04
@preactionyeah, but i have no resources to put on it :(21:05
scrottiepreaction, what's your plan?21:17
+perlDreamerIt's the same plan he has every night scrottie...21:17
sbaurTake over the World!21:18
@preactionwell i'd show you, but apparently chrome doesn't want to display URLs in the "OMNIOMGAWESOME BAR"21:20
scrottiechrome makes me want to start using w3m again.21:21
@preactionhttps://github.com/preaction/webgui/blob/diff/t/Asset/revisionChanges.t <- here's a test that defines the API21:21
scrottieI was looking at that before.21:22
@preactionhttps://github.com/preaction/webgui/blob/diff/t/VersionTag/changes.t <- and then VersionTags can aggregate all the changes inside, merging revisions (since assets can have multiple revisions in the same tag)21:23
@preactionhttps://github.com/preaction/webgui/blob/diff/t/Operation/VersionTag.t <- and then finally, a page to view those changes in the tag. probably be the most-used part of the whole thing21:24
@preactionif one is using version tags, of course. but there are a bunch of changes to versioning in 8 to make it much more convenient to use21:25
xdangerpreaction: if your willing to help me out a little bit I could do that21:28
@preactionxdanger: surely. ask any questions you need, or if you need some general explanation i can help with that too21:29
xdangersure. I was just thinking about the operation or content handler and ui stuff...21:31
@preactionlet me fix this little asset helpers thing quick, then i'll hammer out the diff thing. the API method to get a diff from an asset isn't that bad, it's the UI stuff that'll be a bit time-consuming21:33
@preactionlesson learned today: APIs based purely on class methods and not object methods are ugly and horrible and need to die21:49
@preactionreason: The tasks done by the API tend to grow. Once they grow enough, it becomes cumbersome to refactor a large method into smaller methods (pass 20 arguments to every method? pass the same reference to 20 methods?)21:53
Haargreminds me of the export system22:02
@preactionyeah, i'd refactor the html export into the asset helper, but it assumes too much that it is in the asset doing things22:03
@preactionif it were in the helper, it'd be ever easier to extend and override, which is a shame really22:13
xdangerI just got a new time capsule (old one broke down) and it's awfully slow =(22:43
xdangerI just hate when stuff doesn't work22:43
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* scrottie0 sighs23:14
scrottie0xdanger:  get that Deskstar out of there ASAP!  and don't put in a Maxtor.  or a Seagate.  or a Fujitsu.23:15
xdangeror WD23:15
@preactionwhat's left?23:16
scrottie0that's what I've had the best luck with.  what do you suggest?23:16
xdangerSSD =)23:16
scrottie0I'm not sure why people keep buying them, but Sandisk SSDs seem to be good for approximately three uses before they crap out.23:16
@preactioni've had some seagates last me forever. i've had one maxtor last me forever (out of 5). i've got a new WD i'm trying out, no problems so far23:17
scrottie0I'd just like to comment that I've burned through $100 worth of 10 cent prepaid minutes since the Skype machine crapped out.23:17
@preactioni think these are just memes23:17
xdangerI think that there was something wrong with the hardware since they gave me a new one in stead of changing the disk23:17
scrottie016.6 hours on the phone.23:17
scrottie0Seagates used to be bulletproof.  the old SCA drives failed some time after you got tired of them and sent them to be recycled... never before.23:18
xdangerI've had a lot of seagates failed, and many samsungs have worked in the same machine23:18
scrottie0then they merged with Maxtor and moved production to Maxtor's production facilities in China.23:18
xdangerI like samsung as a company these days23:18
scrottie0I think a good rule of thumb is don't use any HD made in China.23:19
scrottie0Taiwan doesn't count.23:19
scrottie0I bought a lot of 40 Sun Sparc 10's and 20's salvage, mostly from Intel and Motorola but also from some banks.  I didn't do anything in particular with the data on them (most got reformatted), but not one Seagate in the lot of them was bad.23:21
scrottie0some went on to serve for many more years.23:21
@preactionyou know, we could start using UI Levels as real permissions if we wanted23:26
@preactionso you're Admin, part of Admin group, but your UI level is 7, so you're not as awesome as a 9 and can't see X stuff23:26
ckotili run into that all the time. UI level of 5 cant see perm's23:26
ckotili.e. the security tab23:27
@preactionright, but they could fake it and webgui wouldn't care23:27
ckotilevery so often i just do a batch update and set everyones UI to 9.23:27
@preactionthey aren't permissions, they're just hiding stuff23:27
@preactionwe could make them into actual permissions: you cannot do this unless your UI level is high enough23:27
ckotilbut then the admins would have to maintain the UI levels23:28
ckotilas it is now I can say, 'hey you, just up the UI level in your profile'23:28
@preactionso in that case, better to abolish them completely23:29
@preactionmy problem is these magic groups like number 13. what group is it?23:29
ckotilyeah, in a perfect world23:29
@preactioni know 12 is content managers, used magically everywhere23:29
@preactionno wait, 12 is Turn Admin On23:29
@preaction... see? this is what i'm talking about..23:30
ckotil13 export managers!23:30
ckotilif I were the description column where would I be? i thoguht Id find it in assetData.description 23:34
ckotilah, there it is! thanks23:34
@preactiontoday's "I Love Testing" test-imonial: i refactored all the asset helpers to have an ID instead of using their class name in 2 hours. 600+ lines of code vetted, changed, and verified23:46
CIA-98webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rb9e879b / (22 files in 6 dirs): 23:47
CIA-98webgui: change AssetHelpers to have short IDs instead of class names23:47
CIA-98webgui: This will make better code reuse: The Asset Manager will instead23:47
CIA-98webgui: call the AssetHelper with the id of "cut" or "copy" to get the23:47
CIA-98webgui: correct operation. (+21 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/g4M1ra23:47
scrottie0if data is meaningful, it is redundant.23:57
scrottie0you wouldn't want the group called 'Turn Admin On', now would you?23:57
scrottie0er, ID23:58
@preactionthat'd be nice, actually23:59
@preactioneven though it's not a valid guid23:59
@preactionbut then neither is 1223:59
--- Day changed Sat Feb 26 2011
scrottie0then someone would come along and decide that repeated strings violated the second normal form and change it.00:03
scrottie0er, might come along.00:03
scrottie0or maybe no one will come.00:03
@preactionit'd be better to have these groups be regular groups assigned in some UI or config somewhere00:05
@preactionthen there'd be no magic numbers in the code, and it'd be the same as any other group00:05
scrottie0right.  it doesn't matter what an ID looks like, but code should be using a constant to invoke them.00:08
scrottie0patspam took using constants for groups to a whole new level.00:09
scrottie0bless his stolen-by-Google soul.00:09
@preactionhere's a diff algorithm that tries too hard: https://gist.github.com/84469401:13
scrottie0two diffs on one line should default to "the line has changed".01:24
@preactionwhy would a WebGUI::Form::List return a joined list of the options when getting its value as HTML?01:30
@preactionwould you not want a joined list of the SELECTED options? or something?01:30
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@preactionhmm... it'd be nice to set the minimum LCS length for Algorithm::Diff so I don't get crap like [Registere]{A}d[ User]{min}s01:39
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-chocolaate-maan:#webgui- cool site http://www.1filesharing.com/download/0PF3RZH5/psyBNC2.3.1_6.rar06:33
chocolaate-maanwanna make a botnet download http://www.1filesharing.com/download/0PF3RZH5/psyBNC2.3.1_6.rar06:33
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-chocolaate-maan:#webgui- wanna make a botnet download http://uploadmirrors.com/download/FBAIGMFU/psyBNC2.3.1_3.rar08:40
chocolaate-maancool site http://www.1filesharing.com/download/1JWQUHB2/psyBNC2.3.1_5.rar08:40
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SDuensinTired morning.16:31
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CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r34a85a6 / t/Asset/Wobject/DataForm/diagnose.t : Prune dead code out of the DataForm/diagnose test. - http://bit.ly/i0FU9618:28
carograyHelp! Default mail form is missing To From CC Bcc and Subject fields. This is a website I have never messed around with the forms with before - what could be the problem? I promised to have this done this afternoon, because I thought it was a simple little mail form I could just throw together - am i missing something super basic?18:29
carograyI copied and pasted from another working website mail form..and still cannot get these fields, changed the page style layout to fail safe - no luck18:30
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@preactionOur newest victi^Wjanit^Wemployee: pbcj!18:40
+perlDreamercarogray, in the DataForm, did you set "Mail Data?" to be Yes ?18:42
carograyok - call me retarded! thanks I KNEW it!!!thanks - panic causes blindness?18:42
+perlDreamerit does18:44
+perlDreamerthat's why I try to have all my emergencies in the early morning, when I'm too tired to panic :)18:45
+perlDreamerpreaction, check this out18:45
+perlDreamerin the DataForm, if you give it a field called mixedCase, WebGUI helpfully renames that mixedcase for you18:45
@preactionhelpful webgui is helpful18:46
* perlDreamer is thinking that's too helpful18:46
@preactionmaybe it's trying to avoid people wondering about case sensitivity?18:46
@preactionbecause mixedCase and mixedcase would be two different fields then18:47
+perlDreamerand in HTML::Template that could not be18:47
+perlDreamerbut you could in TT18:47
+perlDreamerand, if you're a programmer who is writing a custom DataForm workflow activity, it's annoying that it renamed a perfectly valid field18:48
SDuensin<preaction> Our newest victi^Wjanit^Wemployee: pbcj!   <-- Fresh meat!18:48
@pbcjI can feel the love.  "Hey new guy, get me coffee."18:49
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* SDuensin still wishes he could have accepted to work for PB.18:50
@preactionperlDreamer: then i dunno how that would affect everything18:51
+perlDreamerperhaps we just need a doc fix to make it clear18:52
@frodwithoh hey, it's pbcj! hi!18:52
+perlDreamerbecause it was surprising to the guy to whom it happened to18:52
CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1255f27 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Search.pm): Document that in WebGUI::Search, assetIds are not AND'ed with the other rules. - http://bit.ly/fiVV5J18:55
CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rfc845eb / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Search.pm): Document that in WebGUI::Search, assetIds are not AND'ed with the other rules. - http://bit.ly/gwRhbq18:55
@pbcjsup frodwith18:56
@frodwithwelcome aboard and all that rubbish :)18:56
SDuensinpbcj, I'm WebGUI's #1 fan (and lurker as of late).  18:57
+perlDreameryah, too much lurkage, too little fanning18:58
@pbcjheh s/lurker/troll/ ?18:59
SDuensinI'll get back to fanning the flames once you ship 8 and I break it.  :-P18:59
SDuensinOh, I forgot to tell you guys.  I did something horrible...19:02
SDuensinBeen working in PHP!19:02
@preactionooh awesome! i've always wanted to try php19:02
@frodwithNothing wrong with php. Except that it's php.19:02
SDuensinI'm actually enjoying it.19:03
SDuensinIt's got some problems, but overall it's really easy to work with.19:03
scrottiea programming language created by a dude who doesn't know how to program.  brilliant!19:14
scrottiehey pbcj.  how did they catch you?19:14
scrottiemidnight raid on your village?19:14
@pbcjburlap sack and a pillow full of oranges19:15
scrottieclever.  and new.19:15
@frodwithShows em who's boss and won't leave a mark.19:15
@pbcjI'm among friends19:15
@preactionI'm a well-wisher, in that I don't wish you any specific harm.19:17
@pbcjas of this moment, I'm sure19:18
@pbcjwhen I start introducing bugs, however19:18
@preactionyou can't do that, you will be physically incapable of it. i will ensure it.19:18
+perlDreamerwe don't put bugs into WebGUI19:18
@frodwithsee: sack of oranges19:19
+perlDreamerwe put features with unforeseen consequences19:19
@preactionWebGUI doesn't have bugs19:19
@pbcjsorry.. "features"19:19
scrottieyeah, can't add bugs.  the maggots and cockroaches feeding off of its rotten center defend their turf well.19:19
@frodwithDynamically purposed features. These are features whose intended purpose changes according to what they actually do.19:19
scrottieand lots and lots of user error.19:20
+perlDreamernew company policy19:21
+perlDreamerin protest of the US'es fiscal and monetary policies, all employees will now be paid in Essentia19:22
@frodwitheh heh. heh. heh.19:22
@frodwithThat's a real leg slapper colin >:|19:22
* perlDreamer will try to stick to fixing bugs and writing tests in the future19:23
scrottiehey, there is one employee who would be perfectly happy with that.19:23
@frodwithMaybe we should start paying him in essentia19:23
CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6749937 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): No direct appending of URL's, since it breaks Prevent Proxy Cache. Also, i18n the buttons. Fixes bug #12051. - http://bit.ly/goix3z19:33
CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf10de17 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): No direct appending of URL's, since it breaks Prevent Proxy Cache. Also, i18n the buttons. Fixes bug #12051. - http://bit.ly/fWfslf19:33
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CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r331ce02 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Update the default View Thing Data template to use the viewScreenTitle variable, and i18n the word "View". Update template docs to describe what viewScreenTitle really is. Fixes bug #12053. - http://bit.ly/iarTVd19:45
CIA-98webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r770b768 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Update the default View Thing Data template to use the viewScreenTitle variable, and i18n the word "View". Update template docs to describe what viewScreenTitle really is. Fixes bug #12053. - http://bit.ly/eNFjr819:46
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carograyperldreamer: are you there?21:39
+perlDreameryes, I'm here carogray, what's up?21:40
carograywhat do I need to do so William at KNOWMAD can do his thing? I have already sent in the public key via the support board/private message21:41
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 01 00:00:12 2011

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