WebGUI irc logs from: 2011-01.log

--- Log opened Sat Jan 01 00:00:12 2011
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mducharme	Happy New Year	08:00
SDuensin	YES!!!! Just hit 2011 here, too!	08:00
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advancedalarmtec	hello all, is there someone online that could ask a question of?	09:59
advancedalarmtec	that I could ask a question of*	10:00
advancedalarmtec	I will try later, night	10:06
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advancedalarmtec	Happy New Year everyone	18:32
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CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r505d6ac / sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl : Ham handed attempt to try and find the maximum revision date. - http://bit.ly/fIiRd2	22:12
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rdd72479 / sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl : Close all statement handles. - http://bit.ly/dIkcpL	22:12
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * re9bfa17 / (3 files in 3 dirs):	22:12
CIA-71	webgui: Duplicating events should duplicate relatedLinks. Add tests for setting and	22:12
CIA-71	webgui: getting relatedLinks. Make recurrence use duplicate instead of addChild so that	22:12
CIA-71	webgui: all collateral information like storageIds and relatedLinks are also duplicated.	22:12
CIA-71	webgui: Fixes bug #12010. - http://bit.ly/dGs7nQ	22:12
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r416b45f / (3 files in 3 dirs):	22:13
CIA-71	webgui: Duplicating events should duplicate relatedLinks. Add tests for setting and	22:13
CIA-71	webgui: getting relatedLinks. Make recurrence use duplicate instead of addChild so that	22:13
CIA-71	webgui: all collateral information like storageIds and relatedLinks are also duplicated.	22:13
CIA-71	webgui: Fixes bug #12010. - http://bit.ly/hkqzAr	22:13
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advancedalarmtec	hello all, is there someone online that could help me troubleshoot an issue I'm having with a source install of WebGUI 7.9.18-stable on ubuntu 10.10 server?	06:35
advancedalarmtec	anyone online?	06:50
@preaction	perlbot ask	06:54
perlbot	preaction: Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers.	06:54
advancedalarmtec	I am getting the following two errors in my webgui.log file:	07:02
advancedalarmtec	2011/01/01 01:53:45 - ERROR - www.advancedalarmtec.com.conf - WebGUI::Asset::loadModule[1837] - Couldn't compile asset package: WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Survey. Root cause: Attempt to reload WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm aborted.	07:02
advancedalarmtec	Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 1834.	07:02
advancedalarmtec	source install of webgui 7.9.18-stable on ubuntu 10.10 server	07:03
@preaction	run the testEnvironment.pl	07:04
advancedalarmtec	it completes without any errors	07:04
@preaction	then restart and look for the first error from that module	07:04
advancedalarmtec	it seems to happen when when I go to admin mode, admin console, settings, and change the default style template for the site	07:30
advancedalarmtec	no matter what I set the default template to, it stays on style 3 which is what I set the site up as in the beginning	07:30
@preaction	did you restart? did you look at what the first error from that module was?	07:31
advancedalarmtec	yes I rebooted the computer, that's the first and only error that showed up	07:42
@preaction	you don't need to reboot the entire computer, just restart webgui.	07:43
@preaction	and no, it's not. something is preventing Survey from loading. that error is the second attempt to load it, Perl will not load a module that has failed to load already	07:43
@preaction	you could go find the Survey.pm module and check it with perl -c WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm	07:44
advancedalarmtec	it failed...line 16	07:50
advancedalarmtec	line 16 says use WebGUI::Form::File;	07:52
@preaction	okay, so there's something that's preventing that module from loading	07:55
advancedalarmtec	how do I fix that?	07:59
@preaction	first you might want to figure out what's preventing that module from loading	07:59
@preaction	also, you did not give me the actual error	07:59
advancedalarmtec	root@w-webserver:/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject# sudo perl -c Survey.pm	08:00
advancedalarmtec	Can't locate WebGUI/International.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at Survey.pm line 16.	08:00
@preaction	you're in the wrong directory	08:01
@preaction	you need to be in /data/WebGUI/lib for that command to work	08:01
advancedalarmtec	root@w-webserver:/data/WebGUI/lib# sudo perl -c WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm	08:02
advancedalarmtec	Can't locate JSON/PP.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/Test.pm line 7.	08:02
advancedalarmtec	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/Test.pm line 7.	08:02
advancedalarmtec	Compilation failed in require at WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm line 22.	08:02
advancedalarmtec	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm line 22.	08:02
advancedalarmtec	Compilation failed in require at WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ExpressionEngine.pm line 24.	08:02
advancedalarmtec	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ExpressionEngine.pm line 24.	08:02
advancedalarmtec	Compilation failed in require at WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/SurveyJSON.pm line 54.	08:02
advancedalarmtec	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/SurveyJSON.pm line 54.	08:02
advancedalarmtec	Compilation failed in require at WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm line 20.	08:02
advancedalarmtec	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm line 20.	08:02
@preaction	stop	08:02
@preaction	don't paste into the channel	08:02
@preaction	use a pastebin	08:02
advancedalarmtec	ok, sorry	08:03
@preaction	Can't locate JSON/PP.pm in @INC <- there is your problem. the JSON module is not installed correctly	08:03
advancedalarmtec	would it not give me an error when I run the testEnvironment?	08:04
@preaction	it probably should, yes, unless the testenvironment.pl script is being run under different circumstances from WebGUI itself	08:05
advancedalarmtec	how would I manually install the JSON module correctly?	08:06
@preaction	probably using cpan	08:07
@preaction	or using apt-get linjson-perl	08:07
@preaction	er.. libjson-perl	08:07
advancedalarmtec	ok, rebooting now	08:10
@preaction	what? why/	08:10
advancedalarmtec	I did the aptitude install libjson-perl	08:10
@preaction	okay?	08:10
@preaction	you don't reboot the entire computer after you install something	08:10
advancedalarmtec	just needed to reload apache and spectre?	08:12
@preaction	yes	08:13
advancedalarmtec	it's still acting the same way I described before, but it's not throwing any errors in the webgui.log file	08:26
@preaction	change your log level to INFO, instead of ERROR, and see if anything gets logged	09:01
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advancedalarmtec	do I just paste the output from the file to pastebin.webgui.com?	09:23
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CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r789a347 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : The Account system should show Visitor a login instead of an insufficient privilege screen. Fixes bug #12012 - http://bit.ly/h4oDXm	22:39
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * re671398 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : The Account system should show Visitor a login instead of an insufficient privilege screen. Fixes bug #12012 - http://bit.ly/gd6K99	22:39
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r5e7e660 / lib/WebGUI/Content/Account.pm : Uh, and the code change for Visitor Account privileges. - http://bit.ly/er2ItX	22:42
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r648ea28 / lib/WebGUI/Content/Account.pm : Uh, and the code change for Visitor Account privileges. - http://bit.ly/eIEfQZ	22:42
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3e0da41 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Allow for File and Image subclasses to be handled gracefully by the Thingy. - http://bit.ly/hqL00Y	22:59
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r51126f7 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Allow for File and Image subclasses to be handled gracefully by the Thingy. - http://bit.ly/fF99li	22:59
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advancedalarmtec	If there is someone online that could help please take a look at the error I posted in http://webgui.pastebin.com Thank you!	08:14
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advancedalarmtec	does webgui 7.10.6-beta use json version 1.x or 2.x?	10:29
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:38
+bartjol	howdy, good year	16:39
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advancedalarmtec	is there someone online that could help me troubleshoot an issue I'm having with webgui 7.10.6-beta running on ubuntu 10.10 server?	16:53
advancedalarmtec	I posted the error on http://webgui.pastebin.com	16:55
+bartjol	hey	17:18
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+perlDreamer	bartjol, I have an ignorant English speaking question for you	18:16
+perlDreamer	Is there a Dutch equivalent for N/A (the abbreviation for Not Applicable)?	18:17
+bartjol	yes	18:18
+bartjol	n.v.t.	18:18
+bartjol	niet van toepassing	18:18
+perlDreamer	mmmm	18:21
+perlDreamer	I'm guessing that you've never used the WeatherData asset?	18:22
+perlDreamer	it's full of hard-coded english :(	18:22
+bartjol	well I used it once as a test	18:22
Haarg	hopefully nobody ever used the weatherdata asset	18:22
+bartjol	and my testsite is englisgh	18:22
+bartjol	so I wouldn't notice	18:22
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, I can say that 1 person will be using the WeatherData asset	18:24
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+bartjol	perlDreamer: would that be you?	18:43
+perlDreamer	no, I am immune to weather	18:43
+perlDreamer	because in Oregon, we only have two kinds of weather	18:43
+perlDreamer	wet and rainy, and wet and sunny	18:43
+perlDreamer	9 months out of the year, it is wet and rainy	18:44
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+bartjol	ah, it's like dutch weather	18:48
+perlDreamer	Don't y'all get a lot of ice and snow?	18:48
+bartjol	most is gone already	18:48
+bartjol	we have some cold periods, but the don't last	18:49
+bartjol	btw the error in http://webgui.pastebin.com/mr8MhPZ6 looks like a misconfiguration, right?	18:50
+bartjol	a guy called advancedalarmtec: had the problem	18:50
+perlDreamer	yeah, it looks like spectre tried to call WebGUI, but WebGUI returned the a page instead of JSON data	18:50
+perlDreamer	could be bad spectre.conf, webgui.conf, DNS or several other things	18:51
+bartjol	I had the problem quite often with DNS	18:51
+bartjol	but do you need a Dutch translation for weatherdata?	19:02
+bartjol	and you want to make that translation?	19:02
+perlDreamer	I just noticed that it was full of hardcoded English	19:02
+perlDreamer	which in general is a no-no for WebGUI	19:02
+perlDreamer	even if it won't do international sites, there are still people who prefer languages other than English in the U.S.A.	19:03
+bartjol	well let's find the guilty person and attack him/her with something really scary: too much friendliness	19:03
+bartjol	will it be there in wg 8?	19:04
+perlDreamer	I think the long term plan is to move StockData, WeatherAsset and the Dashboard into a separate repository	19:04
+perlDreamer	so it won't be in core	19:04
+bartjol	well, maybe an asset cleanup can't harm	19:05
+bartjol	I do remember a poll for the most popular asset	19:05
+bartjol	depends on the number of enties how usefull that was for such elimination	19:06
+bartjol	s	19:06
+perlDreamer	yeah, I don't remember how many people voted	19:06
+bartjol	problem is with eliminating stuff like that is that the hoster will get more requests for installions of those assets	19:07
+bartjol	would be cool if that could be front end plugins	19:08
+bartjol	but we will do that in webgui starter	19:10
+bartjol	which is coming along now	19:10
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@preaction	damn, he just left before i could explain the plan	19:12
+perlDreamer	you could blog about it preaction	19:12
+perlDreamer	he'd be sure to read that	19:12
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advancedalarmtec	is there anyone online that I could ask a question of?	19:56
Haarg	possibly	19:56
Haarg	the issue you were having earlier is most likely because spectre is reaching the wrong site when it tries to connect to webgui	19:56
advancedalarmtec	that would cause the malformed json string?	19:58
Haarg	it uses the first item in the 'sitename' config entry to connect. so that hostname needs to resolve properly on the server, and needs to direct to the correct site in apache	19:58
Haarg	yeah. it expects webgui to serve a json string, but instead it is receiving an HTML file.	19:59
advancedalarmtec	if I'm trying to host multiple sites does it matter which host name I mention first on the hosts file?	20:00
@preaction	all of them, the first one in the sitename config entry	20:00
@preaction	spectre connects to all the websites	20:00
+perlDreamer	advancedalarmtec: the order in the hosts file doesn't matter, but the order in the WebGUI config file matters a lot	20:05
advancedalarmtec	in the www.site1.com.conf file I have the: "spectreSubnets" : ["127.0.0.1/32","123.123.123.123/32"],	20:10
advancedalarmtec	is the 123.123.123.123 supposed to be the local ip of the computer	20:12
Haarg	if spectreSubnets was wrong, you would be getting a different error	20:14
advancedalarmtec	I have put the host names of the sites I'm hosting first on the list, ex: 127.0.0.1 site1.com www.site1.com site2.com www.site2.com site3.com www.site3.com ... localhost	20:38
Haarg	the order of stuff in the hosts file doesn't matter	20:38
advancedalarmtec	I'm still getting the same error after restarting apache and sptectre	20:39
Haarg	what is sitename in the site's config file?	20:39
Haarg	and try doing 'curl http://www.site1.com/' on the server	20:40
advancedalarmtec	"sitename" : [ "www.site1.com","site1.com" ],	20:40
@preaction	and that is what Apache thinks the sitename is? ServerName and/or ServerAlias?	20:41
advancedalarmtec	in apache2 VirtualHost block: ServerName www.site1.com ServerAlias site1.com	20:42
@preaction	and cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl spectre.pl --test; # reports everything is okay?	20:43
advancedalarmtec	@preaction: it gives an error, it appears that when I try to go to http://www.site1.com it brings up the default "It works" apache html file, but if I go to http://site1.com it brings up the webgui page	20:46
@preaction	then something is wrong with everything we've been talking about	20:47
advancedalarmtec	what do you mean?	20:49
@preaction	don't PM without asking.	20:57
@preaction	ServerName/ServerAlias, webgui sitename, and DNS/name need to all be synced up, as was said at the beginning. going to http://www.site1.com on the server WebGUI is on should bring up the site	20:58
advancedalarmtec	I'm sorry @preaction, I did not intend to offend.	20:59
advancedalarmtec	in the hosts file do you put the site1.com www.site1.com ect under the 127.0.0.1 address or the 127.0.1.1 address?	21:00
@preaction	whatever address apache is bound to	21:04
* perlDreamer goes afk		21:19
@preaction	if i were to start blogging about webgui 8, should i use blogs.perl.org like everyone else and just link to it from webgui.org and the plainblack twitter account?	21:23
advancedalarmtec	I deleted the site that was giving me problems along with it's config file, when I run: perl spectre.pl --test everything tests out ok. I tried to go into admin console, settings, account, and changed all the style templates to a different one, hit save, and it doesn't change the template of the site. In the webgui.log it shows: WARN - www.site2.com.conf - WebGUI::Asset::newByUrl[2066] -	21:46
advancedalarmtec	The URL favicon.ico was requested, but does not exist in your asset tree.	21:46
@preaction	did you commit your version tag? did you clear your browser cache? the warning in the log has nothing to do with this problem	21:47
advancedalarmtec	I do not have any pending version tags, yes i cleared out browser cache	21:57
advancedalarmtec	I assume to commit a version tag if one exists is to go to admin console, version tag, manage pending versions. If that's the case there are no version tags that are created when I go to settings and try to change the default style template of the website.	22:13
@preaction	Pending versions are versions working through the commit process. Open version tags are tags not yet committed	22:16
advancedalarmtec	ok I guess my question would be, after going to settings and changing the style for the site and hitting save, what is the next step to commit the change to the site	22:24
@preaction	if there is an open version tag, commit the version tag. otherwise it should be done	22:25
advancedalarmtec	there are no open version tags, yet the changes were not made to the site. There are no errors in the webgui.log, only the warning I posted earlier. How do I go about troubleshooting this?	22:27
@preaction	is loglevel at info? going back to the edit page, are the changes in the form? is the log level at INFO?	22:29
@preaction	hmm... must be monday after vacation...	22:29
advancedalarmtec	log lvl is on INFO	22:30
advancedalarmtec	the changes stay on the form, say I go back to to settings and account, it shows the style that I selected previously	22:31
@preaction	wait, settings?	22:32
@preaction	account?	22:32
@preaction	the Admin Console template isn't changable. the Account style templates are configured in the Account tab in the Settings	22:33
advancedalarmtec	yes, when I'm logged into the site, I go Admin Console, Settings, Account tab	22:33
advancedalarmtec	from the account tab I select the different style template that I want to change the site to	22:34
@preaction	each individual account plugin has its own style template, are you changing them all? did you also change the User Function Style in the UI tab?	22:34
advancedalarmtec	I did change all yes, no I did not change anything in UI	22:35
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TheSeparator	Happy WebGUI8 year to all of you!	22:36
advancedalarmtec	I just changed the style template in UI to the same I have selected in the Account tab, cleared browser cache, still no change	22:36
@preaction	then what is the exact URL you're seeing no change on?	22:40
advancedalarmtec	after making style template changes to the UI tab and Account Tab, I click save. After I click save I log out. Close my web browser. Clear my browser's cache. Open it back up and go to www.site1.com. It loads www.site1.com/home (home is still the old style template). I click log in, it loads another page to log in (http://www.site1.com/home?op=auth;method=init) this page shows the updated	22:47
advancedalarmtec	style template that I chose. After I type in my log in info it takes me back to the home page with the old style template	22:47
@preaction	okay, the home page is a different style template. that's not in settings, you have to Turn Admin On and edit the page to change your style	22:56
@preaction	that should all be covered in the Content Manager's Guide http://www.webgui.org/user-guides	22:57
advancedalarmtec	thank you @preaction. I will take a better look at the user-guides. I believe all the errors I was having earlier are fixed. I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much. May I PM you real quickly?	22:59
@preaction	no, i'm in and out, trying to get work done	22:59
advancedalarmtec	ok, I didn't know what correct protocal is for donating, if it goes directly to you, or if I should go to webgui.org and donate there. I didn't want to make a taboo and do the wrong thing, I was just wanting to donate towards the cause in appreciation of your time	23:01
@preaction	we don't really take donations. more valuable would be spreading the word about WebGUI's awesomeness. a simple "Powered by" link on your site, or just word-of-mouth. helping users here or at the webgui.org forums would be greatly appreciated as well	23:05
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advancedalarmtec	@preaction: sure will, thanks again!	00:54
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@preaction	now that i'm all caught up from the vacation, i get 3 solid hours in which to bugfix Webgui 7! yay!	01:25
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+perlDreamer	preaction, do you think it matters which user owns a version tag?	01:35
+perlDreamer	for example, extra events created by the ExtendCalendarRecurrence workflow would be owned by Visitor	01:36
@preaction	it only matters if the tag will be interrupted by approval, which ExtendCalendarRecurrence never will be	01:41
@preaction	in fact, it should probably bypass approval in 8	01:41
* perlDreamer hasn't learned about content approval/workflow changes in 8 yet		01:42
@preaction	when did you want to do the release? i'm bugfixing until then	01:44
+perlDreamer	9:00pm my time	01:44
@preaction	okay, so i got plenty of time	01:45
+perlDreamer	oh yeah	01:45
+perlDreamer	hack on, brother!	01:45
+perlDreamer	in case it isn't obvious, I'm working on the calendar recurrence bug	01:46
@preaction	i'm working on the isDuplicate performance problem, and then back up the bug list from oldest to newest	01:52
+perlDreamer	k	01:52
@preaction	i hope to hit iccbba's bug before the night is out, so i can give them some good news for the new year	01:52
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CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb911f05 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Commit events created by the ExtendCalendarRecurrences workflow activity. Fixes bug #11994. - http://bit.ly/hVy8vH	03:02
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r77c4a47 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Commit events created by the ExtendCalendarRecurrences workflow activity. Fixes bug #11994. - http://bit.ly/dGIy7N	03:02
+perlDreamer	preaction, when do entries in the Event_recur table get cleaned up?	03:12
@preaction	uh... good question	03:12
* preaction wants to remove recurrence individual events and calculate occurences on-the-fly		03:13
+perlDreamer	sounds slow	03:14
@preaction	prove it. i didn't. i think it would be comparable to instantiating the events from the database	03:14
@preaction	but i'd like to see the benchmarks first	03:14
@preaction	also, WebGUI::User::validateProfileDataFromForm needs to die :(	03:16
+perlDreamer	agreed	03:17
+perlDreamer	re events, it would have to instanciate more events, since you'd have to instanciate all previous events, back to time==0	03:18
+perlDreamer	and, whereas now we delete those, you'd have to check to see if they have a recurrence pattern and keep those around	03:18
+perlDreamer	if the pattern hasn't expired yet	03:18
+perlDreamer	maybe it could trade off	03:18
+perlDreamer	but I'm skeptical	03:18
@preaction	i'd do it just for the maintenance benefit, if the performance doesn't suffer too much	03:19
@preaction	say, 100 daily, weekly, and monthly events forever. if it can handle that at reasonable speeds, and if speed decreases linearly as more events are added, i'd be perfectly happy	03:19
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra083737 / (3 files in 3 dirs):	03:25
CIA-71	webgui: Do not extend recurrent for events in the trash. Do not extend them in the	03:25
CIA-71	webgui: clipboard either, since it'll either make a mess in the clipboard or pop them up	03:25
CIA-71	webgui: on the calendar automatically. Fixes bug #11995 - http://bit.ly/heM63t	03:25
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf0b2ec3 / (3 files in 3 dirs):	03:26
CIA-71	webgui: Do not extend recurrent for events in the trash. Do not extend them in the	03:26
CIA-71	webgui: clipboard either, since it'll either make a mess in the clipboard or pop them up	03:26
CIA-71	webgui: on the calendar automatically. Fixes bug #11995 - http://bit.ly/eIvaXB	03:26
@preaction	http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11947 <- what else does this need to do?	03:26
Haarg	would probably be good to take care of #12004 if you are working on bugs	03:28
+perlDreamer	preaction: after that, we need to make sure they are passed through to PayPal to charge to the user.	03:32
+perlDreamer	based on how convoluted passing shipping costs were, I doubt they work correctly and there's probably no documentation on how to do it properly, either	03:33
+perlDreamer	preaction: what kind of invalid dates are being passed from Finance::Quote, inside the StockData asset?	03:35
@preaction	2009-10-10, no time, iirc	03:35
+perlDreamer	ick	03:35
+perlDreamer	hang on, that's an ISO date format	03:38
+perlDreamer	but we expect English date formats	03:38
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rcb7ffb3 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Make sure that the StockData asset doesn't die when handling various date formats. Fixes bug #11986. - http://bit.ly/fDRkZW	04:01
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0980526 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Make sure that the StockData asset doesn't die when handling various date formats. Fixes bug #11986. - http://bit.ly/gg64fc	04:01
+perlDreamer	3 bugs killed, in progress on #4	04:04
+perlDreamer	off to dinner	04:04
+perlDreamer	back from dinner	04:36
@preaction	testing is fun and good for you!	04:52
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+perlDreamer	I've been thinking about writing a series of blog articles about why testing sucks	04:55
@preaction	say it ain't so, joe!	04:56
+perlDreamer	yeah	04:56
+perlDreamer	it would be slightly tongue in cheek	04:56
+perlDreamer	for example, testing sucks because some people think it's a silver bullet	04:56
+perlDreamer	when it truth, tests can suck just as bad as code	04:56
+perlDreamer	tests have non-zero cost	04:57
@preaction	sure, but the net cost of a project with testing is lower than one without	04:57
@preaction	i fix these four bugs here, and i know i never have to fix these exact four bugs again, and most likely nothing like them	04:57
+perlDreamer	yes, but the time to write those tests has to be factored into a project	04:58
+perlDreamer	it's short-term vs long-term viewing	04:58
@preaction	indeed, and i think COBOL has proven that all software is long-term	04:59
* perlDreamer better take out more insurance		05:12
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rc5ecf3f / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix bad characters in the price column when importing products into a Shelf. Fixes bug #12001. - http://bit.ly/e8BGhF	05:12
+perlDreamer	are you going to commit some test fixes tonight preaction?	05:13
@preaction	yes, i've got one more bug i'm gonna fix and then i'll merge	05:13
* perlDreamer waves his hand before preaction, "You _will_ merge your code so that I can regress."		05:14
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6726466 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix bad characters in the price column when importing products into a Shelf. Fixes bug #12001. - http://bit.ly/goLyVf	05:14
@preaction	you think i won't test myself? for shame, pd. for shame.	05:16
+perlDreamer	I know you'll test yourself	05:16
+perlDreamer	it's the code I worry about ;)	05:16
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andyiomoon	evening/morning/afternoon all... wherever you may be	05:30
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+perlDreamer	howdy, andyiomoon	05:33
andyiomoon	hey there Colin!	05:36
andyiomoon	I am writing to you from my new office - I started as Operations Manager at NeTC (Swinburne) today	05:36
+perlDreamer	Congratulations!	05:37
andyiomoon	many thanks	05:37
+perlDreamer	is it hard switching back to office-mode from home-mode?	05:37
andyiomoon	actually, no... working at home there are so many distractions and it takes a lot of effort to ignore them and get some solid work done	05:37
andyiomoon	this definitely has its benefit - and working at a university again means I get to work at university pace	05:38
andyiomoon	sloooow and eassssy	05:38
andyiomoon	I have a quick webgui related Q if you can be bothered...	05:39
+perlDreamer	sure	05:39
+perlDreamer	bring it on!	05:39
andyiomoon	I am trying to set up an admin user with the ability to add users to groups. I have added them to the "secondary admin" group and I have set the permissions for "groups" and "users" on the account > permissions tab to "secondary admin" but...	05:40
andyiomoon	they cannot see all the groups when it comes time to add a user to those groups... they can only see the groups they have permissions to...	05:41
andyiomoon	do I just need to add them to all the groups - is it that simple?	05:41
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+perlDreamer	actually, what you described, I think it should work	05:43
+perlDreamer	let me look at some code...	05:43
andyiomoon	WebGUI Build Version:7.7.21-stable	05:44
+perlDreamer	that would be 3 year old code	05:44
andyiomoon	...they can only see the groups to which they have been added...	05:44
andyiomoon	that's what I should have said	05:44
andyiomoon	3 years old!	05:44
+perlDreamer	yup, about 6 months per sub-version	05:45
+perlDreamer	and we're working on 7.10	05:45
+perlDreamer	wait, 18 months old	05:45
@preaction	the Secondary Admins group is special. what permissions in the Permissions tab do they have?	05:45
@preaction	do they have full access to Users and Groups? or just the limited access. it sounds like the limited access	05:45
@preaction	or maybe the check is wrong and checks for the limited access before the full access	05:46
andyiomoon	Groups, Users and Users (add only)	05:46
andyiomoon	the latter because I was getting desperate and mashing a whole lot of buttons	05:46
+perlDreamer	that's what I usually do	05:46
+perlDreamer	the Group privilege code looks the same between 7.10 and 7.7	05:47
andyiomoon	(hello Doug btw)	05:47
+perlDreamer	Andy, can you duplicate that on a demo site?	05:48
andyiomoon	I could certainly try and get back to you	05:48
+perlDreamer	[sidebar canEditAll -> groupIdAdminGroup]	05:48
+perlDreamer	[canView => groupIdAdminGroupAdmin]	05:48
andyiomoon	what is special about the Secondary Admin group?	05:50
+perlDreamer	I thought we'd gotten rid of the specialness	05:51
@preaction	that's what the "Users (add only)" and "Groups (limited)" are, the special Secondary Admin stuff	05:52
+perlDreamer	but with Settings->Privileges, those are all just defaults now	05:53
+perlDreamer	aren't they?	05:53
+perlDreamer	andyiomoon, are the users in the Secondary Admins group also part of Turn Admin On?	05:54
andyiomoon	let me check...	05:54
+perlDreamer	I did this very quickly on a dev site, and it worked.	05:54
+perlDreamer	I created joeuser, put them into Secondary Admin (and Turn On Admin to get them to the Admin Bar)	05:54
andyiomoon	they are not	05:55
andyiomoon	let me add them and see if that works	05:55
+perlDreamer	how do they get to the Group screen in the admin console if they can't turn on Admin?	05:55
andyiomoon	first - adding them to the Turn On Admin group made no difference...	05:56
+perlDreamer	on my end, removing them didn't change things either, the user can still see all groups	05:56
andyiomoon	hmmm - so you can't replicate my problem	05:57
+perlDreamer	no	05:57
+perlDreamer	but I may be setting things up differently as well	05:57
andyiomoon	I presume by having them as part of the secondary admin group gives them turn on abilities by default	05:57
+perlDreamer	no	05:58
+perlDreamer	you have to be in TOA	05:58
+perlDreamer	there are two other things to consider...	05:58
andyiomoon	they are part of a group called managers... this may have Turn On Admin in it....	05:58
+perlDreamer	I'm actually looking at 7.7.33	05:59
+perlDreamer	and your 7.7.21 isn't core, it's Flux	05:59
andyiomoon	ahh	05:59
andyiomoon	good ol' Flux	05:59
+perlDreamer	getting similar results with 7.7.21 - core	06:00
andyiomoon	that is no doubt confusing matters	06:00
+perlDreamer	well, it's just one potential reason why I can't duplicate what you're doing	06:00
andyiomoon	yes	06:00
andyiomoon	Flux was meant to manage users and groups in a different way to the standard WebGUI way...	06:00
andyiomoon	but we are not using it	06:00
andyiomoon	that is, it is not switched on	06:01
+perlDreamer	then it shouldn't make a difference	06:01
* perlDreamer has to step out and be fatherly distracted for about an hour		06:01
* andyiomoon will be afk for a while too		06:02
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell master * rad8f123 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/search.pl): fix 11985 Search.pl should warn on bad asset (+5 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/geLLba	06:15
@preaction	perlDreamer: all done. you may fire when ready, gridley	06:24
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r8760795 / (4 files in 4 dirs): fix 11945 slow sql for duplicate email lookup - http://bit.ly/fHJdGR	06:25
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * ra454fcf / (2 files in 2 dirs): fix 11960 cart address fields marked as mandatory - http://bit.ly/hLpLZR	06:25
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r19e4c58 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Search.pm t/Asset/Wobject/Search.t): fix 11976 use container url gives permission denied - http://bit.ly/fN0EcR	06:25
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * ree6fd02 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/search.pl): fix 11985 Search.pl should warn on bad asset - http://bit.ly/fueP0Q	06:25
+perlDreamer	test ho!	06:34
+perlDreamer	preaction: I've started looking into Test::MockTime to shave off some test time for free	06:44
+perlDreamer	it works very well	06:44
+perlDreamer	and we shouldn't ever have to call sleep again in tests	06:44
Haarg	only issue with that module is that it has to be loaded before anything else. usually not a problem though.	06:47
+perlDreamer	yeah, I learned that the hard way	06:47
+perlDreamer	that, and Paul has used Test::Deep inside the Event asset	06:47
Haarg	Test::Deep is rather annoying. very powerful and useful but a number of annoying issues as well.	06:48
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r75ddd84 / (2 files): Update tests to handle new data being returned from USPS, for both domestic and international shipping. No driver changes required so far. - http://bit.ly/fC9Lf3	06:57
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rec9e081 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.17 release. - http://bit.ly/gcx8R6	07:00
+perlDreamer	all done!	07:15
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CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r5b318bd / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.20 release - http://bit.ly/gADr84	07:16
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:34
+bartjol	hi scott	16:34
SDuensin	Hey bartjol	16:36
+bartjol	what's up? (or down)	16:37
SDuensin	Blood pressure, stuff I work on. In that order. :-)	16:40
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+perlDreamer	preaction: I'm handing off a project to Obiora, then going to the gym	18:51
+perlDreamer	when I come back, I'd like to 8 it up	18:52
+perlDreamer	I think the best place for me to start would be to get us sync'ed back up to the master branch	18:52
+perlDreamer	but if you think it would be better to work on something else, please holler	18:53
neil___	Need confirmation. Will RFE #12016 incorporate the 'read more' feature from the collaboration system?	18:59
+perlDreamer	"read more" is just a link that you can add to the "summary" view of the CS	19:05
+perlDreamer	so, if you displayed only the synopsis or highlights of a story, then you could put a link to the full content	19:05
+perlDreamer	it may or may not be included in default templates	19:05
* perlDreamer goes to the gym		19:12
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+perlDreamer	preaction: I think I'll start just by making all the old tests work again	20:45
@preaction	actually, we've got a few tasks to complete before we can do anything close to a release	20:45
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r78a12c1 / t/Asset/Story.t : No debug in Test::More, using diag instead. - http://bit.ly/hwmsHY	20:46
@preaction	http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11751 <- here's a good one. if gatewayUrl doesn't work, we can't have a beta	20:46
@preaction	http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11838 <- another good one. if http basic auth doesn't work, can't have a beta	20:47
+perlDreamer	it's hard to do safe development with 14 tests failing	20:47
+perlDreamer	like that last commit	20:48
@preaction	i know, but i'm out of time. everybody's all pissed off that they asked me to do an impossible task with zero resources and i couldn't complete it	20:48
+perlDreamer	very well	20:48
@preaction	if you stumble across why those tests are failing, go ahead and fix them, but iirc they're pretty deep	20:49
+perlDreamer	did you look at my last commit?	20:49
@preaction	i'll be going over everything using WebGUI::Form and updating it to FormBuilder, so i might hit those tests too	20:49
@preaction	sunnuva, THAT was the problem?	20:49
+perlDreamer	ya	20:50
+perlDreamer	how about we both burn 2-4 hours fixing up the tests, and then go crazy hacking?	20:50
+perlDreamer	and then, let me know on what kind of schedule you want master merged in	20:51
@preaction	alright, we'll try it your way. i'll get the AssetHelper tests	20:51
+perlDreamer	I got Session/Url.t	20:51
+perlDreamer	now that Story isn't failing, the AssetHelper tests may be passing again	20:51
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CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r25b981b / t/Session/Url.t : Import node can't be used to test getBackToSiteURL since that forces the user back to the default asset. - http://bit.ly/gLbUpz	20:57
+perlDreamer	the USPS and USPSInternational tests will fail until we merge master into 8	20:57
Freyal2	Does anyone know if is it possible to install webgui on a regular hosting package without root access like godaddy hosting plans?	20:57
+perlDreamer	you have to have root access to run WebGUI	20:57
Freyal2	damn ok thanks	20:58
+perlDreamer	to start the spectre program	20:58
+perlDreamer	either that, or find a WebGUI hoster who will take care of those details for you	20:58
+perlDreamer	preaction, from what I'm seeing, most of these tests are failing due to the conversion to WebGUI::Test->asset	21:10
+perlDreamer	sometimes, you really do need something that's not a child of a Layout, or the Import node	21:10
+perlDreamer	although in general for tests, we have assets scattered all over the place	21:11
@preaction	which tests and why?	21:11
+perlDreamer	Session/Url.t	21:11
+perlDreamer	if the current asset is in the import node, the back to site URL takes you to the default asset	21:12
+perlDreamer	and in Session/Style.t, the snippet is below a layout	21:12
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+perlDreamer	and since it has a printable style template, the test to see what happens when a template can't be found fails	21:12
@preaction	Session/Style.t is easy, WebGUI::Test->asset( className => 'WebGUI::Asset::Snippet' );	21:13
@preaction	wait. doesn't printableStyleTemplate climb the entire tree?	21:13
+perlDreamer	yes :)	21:13
@preaction	okay, then those tests don't have to use Test->asset	21:13
@preaction	it just saves some code and auto-cleans. i also added a user one recently	21:14
+perlDreamer	they're both handy	21:14
+perlDreamer	VersionTag.t is passing	21:24
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd1a9bd9 / t/VersionTag.t : No more session->var. - http://bit.ly/etcSa5	21:25
+perlDreamer	I've got Session/Style.t passing, but it's leaking assets	21:25
+perlDreamer	preaction, maybe you better talk me through the new VersionTag API, because my old, outdated familiar code for making and cleaning up assets doesn't seem to work	21:28
@preaction	you just need to clean up the asset. you don't need a tag anymore, at all	21:28
@preaction	assets are automatically approved	21:28
+perlDreamer	how do I make an unapproved asset for testing?	21:31
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra7623ed / t/Session/Style.t : Remove debug comments, make sure that the snippets do not have parent assets with style templates and that they get cleaned up. - http://bit.ly/g7co1O	21:33
+perlDreamer	Session/Style.t is passing, moving on the Keywords	21:33
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@preaction	you set the tagId and status => "pending", then commit the version tag	21:34
@preaction	so, in other words, everything is explicit now, not implicit	21:34
+perlDreamer	can I set that via calls to addChild, or do I have to do it afterwards?	21:35
@preaction	yes, you can do it via addChild	21:35
@preaction	some of the tests do that, because of the commit() sub	21:35
+perlDreamer	Keywords.t is passing	21:36
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfe18190 / t/Keyword.t : Do checks for keywords without order. - http://bit.ly/eAUsYv	21:36
+perlDreamer	on to RootTitle	21:37
+perlDreamer	RootTitle.t is working	21:47
+perlDreamer	on to the SiteIndex	21:47
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra8fcce6 / t/Macro/RootTitle.t : Testing assets have to be based off the root node, so the lineage works right. Change this, and clean them all up. - http://bit.ly/hY4F7I	21:47
+perlDreamer	I've spent 5 years shoe horning the old, convoluted, difficult API into my head, and now you go make it simple! What were you thinking preaction?	21:48
@preaction	sometimes i don't even know myself	21:48
+perlDreamer	SiteIndex.t is working	21:50
+perlDreamer	preaction, you've got the last 3 tests	21:50
@preaction	ok	21:50
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0e93c33 / t/Content/SiteIndex.t : Cleanup the hidden asset directly, since it's not created in a version tag. - http://bit.ly/ijwD85	21:50
+perlDreamer	I'm going to rerun the whole suite, with DEBUG turned on to look for leakers, but since the tests are all passing I don't expect anything	21:50
+perlDreamer	then I'll quit griping at you and start on 8 dev	21:51
@preaction	wasn't there going to be some kind of style guide for webgui? or do i just keep talking and not doing?	22:31
@preaction	http://oksushi.com/test/list-form/ <- for example. same markup, different CSS for 4 different form types	22:32
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@preaction	the group changes in 7.8/7.9 are all code changes, correct? i've got an ldap client that might benefit if i can backport them	22:57
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+perlDreamer	group changes are all code changes	23:21
+perlDreamer	Style Guide was another promise from TWG	23:21
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+perlDreamer	They did start a style guide on the TWG website, but I don't think it was only partially implemented.	23:36
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4881b83 / t/Asset/Story.t : Refix the Story.t test to handle a different parent. - http://bit.ly/e6g0nO	23:44
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+perlDreamer	preaction: the leak check shows 1 of 2 (or maybe more) things	23:57
+perlDreamer	either the test cleanup is bad (but it works in 7.x) for version tags	23:58
+perlDreamer	or, when an asset is purged, it's not cleaning up the tag that it belongs to if there are no other assets in the tag	23:58
* perlDreamer will check later, since they don't seem to be interfering with the other tests right now		23:58
+perlDreamer	for reference: http://gist.github.com/765521	23:59
+perlDreamer	on to gateway-isms	23:59
--- Day changed Wed Jan 05 2011
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+perlDreamer	URL->query_form looks very nice	00:45
@preaction	the URI::URL module is great. or is that not the module you're talking about?	00:47
+perlDreamer	just the idea of passing query data around as arrays, or hashes instead of strings	00:48
+perlDreamer	any thoughts on what I posted to the gatewayUrl wG8 ticket?	00:48
@preaction	let me check quick	00:49
@preaction	paul made a new shiny and was looking for RFE approval / input	00:49
+perlDreamer	aren't we deadline limited?	00:50
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@preaction	paul is not	00:52
@preaction	paul works for chris	00:52
+perlDreamer	gotcha	00:56
@preaction	and yes, you're correct in your implementation details	00:56
+perlDreamer	sweet, I'll code it, test it and if it passes, close it out	00:56
@preaction	in the future, we might do "base" or "mountpoint" so one can do "http://mysite.com/subsite" directly in the config file, but for now it's unnecessary	00:56
+perlDreamer	okay	00:57
+perlDreamer	it would be fun to rewrite WebGUI to use URI natively instead of Session/Url, but later...	00:58
@preaction	indeed	00:58
@preaction	also this: http://warpspire.com/posts/url-design/ <- today is just full of style best practices	01:06
+perlDreamer	Didn't gnat blog about that last week?	01:07
+perlDreamer	http://radar.oreilly.com/2010/12/four-short-links-29-december-2-1.html	01:08
@preaction	alester just got around to tweeting it then	01:17
* perlDreamer wants to ignorantly assume that we always have a request object		01:34
+perlDreamer	isn't that safe now that we have Plack?	01:34
@preaction	not when testing, i found out, but when testing you can just add one	01:36
+perlDreamer	the session returned by WebGUI::Test always has one, but there are probably other ways that sessions are created. :/	01:37
+perlDreamer	That's something else that sucks about tests	01:38
+perlDreamer	Test maintenance is a hassle	01:38
+perlDreamer	you might come up with an awesome new idea for testing	01:38
+perlDreamer	but then you have to refactor 50K lines of tests to make it worth it	01:38
* perlDreamer runs off to get kids from school		01:40
+perlDreamer	I'm also out of ideas for dinner and am open to suggestions from the floor	01:40
@preaction	scalloped potatoes and ham	01:40
sbaur	burritos	01:40
@preaction	easy and tasty! corn and rolls on the side	01:40
@preaction	I blame this code i wrote on frodwith: $wait = 1 if grep { !$_->isFinished } map { WebGUI::Fork->new( $session, $_ ) } @forkIds;	01:58
@preaction	much map/grep in his code	01:58
@preaction	yay! much updates from me today!	02:01
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rdccfc59 / t/AssetHelper/ExportHtml.t : fix exporthtml assethelper test to wait for forks (+14 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/dXcxkw	02:02
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+perlDreamer	preaction must be a carbo-loader. If they ate that, they'd starch their shorts!	02:11
@preaction	actually, i'm just cheap. potatoes are like $3 for 10lbs around here	02:12
@preaction	the meat's expensive though	02:12
+perlDreamer	I see, so it's potatoes,ham, corn and rolls	02:13
+perlDreamer	for a sec, I thought corn and rolls was another meal suggestion all by themselves	02:13
@preaction	no, it's side-dishes. there are good, cheap, brown and serve rolls out there, and corn is corn	02:15
@preaction	chicken parmesan is pretty easy too, crackers and parmesan and italian seasoning to bread and fry chicken, then simmer in tomato sauce and serve over noodles.	02:16
@preaction	there's a simple alfredo made of a stick of butter, 4 oz of sour cream, and 4 oz of parmesan	02:16
@preaction	margerine works for that alfredo as well, but it doesn't work for much else.	02:17
@preaction	tried baking a yellow cake with margerine once... did not end well...	02:17
sbaur	pork chops are tasty too. I just slather them in dijon mustard and cook in frying pan 5 min per side... a little applesauce, a salad, and presto, tasty meal	02:19
@preaction	ooh, you could do stuffed chops too	02:20
* sbaur is getting hungry		02:20
@preaction	perlDreamer: is Content/SiteIndex.t passing for you? or is that the third failing test i was supposed to look at?	02:23
* perlDreamer will stash and double check		02:23
+perlDreamer	it's passing for me stand alone...	02:23
+perlDreamer	but failing en masse	02:24
+perlDreamer	probably due to leaky tests	02:24
+perlDreamer	how are the AssetHelper tests coming?	02:24
@preaction	they're fixed, go ahead and pull	02:24
@preaction	i also added a messton of derps though	02:24
+perlDreamer	what are derps?	02:25
@preaction	WebGUI::Deprecate::derp	02:30
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@preaction	perlDreamer: what was that new test thing you were talking about previously? that would require the refactoring?	03:25
+perlDreamer	Test::MockTime?	03:43
@preaction	[17:38] <perlDreamer> but then you have to refactor 50K lines of tests to make it worth it	03:46
@preaction	or was that just an idle comment	03:46
+perlDreamer	oh, I was talking about new things like WebGUI::Test->asset and stuff	03:46
+perlDreamer	they're great additions	03:46
+perlDreamer	but managing large test suites is like managing large application codebases	03:46
+perlDreamer	so, it gives one pause before just wading in and doing it	03:46
@preaction	yes. luckily for me i had an actual code change to make	03:47
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf323c80 / lib/WebGUI/Account/FriendManager.pm : Clean up syntax warning about double my in FriendManager. - http://bit.ly/frTewP	03:53
@preaction	uh, didn't i already do that?	03:53
@preaction	yep, didn't push though. fixed	03:54
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r4919c1d / lib/WebGUI/Account/FriendManager.pm : fix warning from friendManager - http://bit.ly/gqBKt1	03:54
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r6bb5ab9 / (lib/WebGUI/Account.pm lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm): Account::Inbox editSettingsForm to FormBuilder - http://bit.ly/gpWe9b	03:54
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r8bd2dea / (3 files in 3 dirs): initial base of Account test classes - http://bit.ly/gHrVNF	03:54
+perlDreamer	yay, more Test::Class tests	03:55
+perlDreamer	ugh, now we have problems	03:56
+perlDreamer	I have tests that are passing stand-alone but not in the suite	03:56
+perlDreamer	which means those leaks that I so quickly passed over earlier are more important than thought	03:56
+perlDreamer	well, we know they pass if run standalone, it's just more work for now	03:58
@preaction	my thoughts exactly	03:58
@preaction	i've got 1500 lines in a quickfix window to go through... yay... mechanical substitution of one value for another... 500 to get through by Friday.	03:59
+perlDreamer	huh?	03:59
@preaction	migratinge verything to FormBuilder. every use of HTMLForm, TabForm, and WebGUI::Form::AUTOLOAD	04:00
@preaction	everything	04:00
@preaction	and adding tests for all code i touch	04:00
@preaction	because i'm tired of not having tests to check my stability against	04:00
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re87358d / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm : No need to check out separate tags for auxiliary assets like Folders inside the Story Archive. - http://bit.ly/hw1pVu	04:07
+perlDreamer	looks like adding Test::MockTime will save us close to 6-10 seconds	04:28
+perlDreamer	which doesn't seem like a lot	04:29
@preaction	per asset test in run_asset.t?	04:30
+perlDreamer	oh no, I missed that	04:31
+perlDreamer	there's a 2 second per asset penalty in run_asset.t right now	04:31
+perlDreamer	which comes out to 2 minutes	04:31
+perlDreamer	since we have about 60 assets	04:31
@preaction	i got rid of some sleeps iirc, replaced with arguments to addRevision/addChild	04:32
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6665e9f / t/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.t : Escape the assetId everytime - is encountered, not just the first. - http://bit.ly/gbCrEq	04:33
+perlDreamer	preaction, there's no fork table in WebGUi	04:34
@preaction	uh... there better be, WebGUI::Fork needs it	04:35
+perlDreamer	on most operating systems, it's Fork	04:35
+perlDreamer	and with that uppercased, it seems to loop for at least 5 seconds	04:36
@preaction	huh?	04:36
+perlDreamer	I changed the tablename from fork to Fork	04:36
+perlDreamer	and now the test seems to stall	04:36
+perlDreamer	but not reliably	04:37
+perlDreamer	grrr	04:37
@preaction	and yes, it's going to wait like that, it has to	04:37
+perlDreamer	how about a fork bomb and BAIL_OUT with a 20 second timeout?	04:37
@preaction	that's one drawback to having seperate processes, especially a detatched process like WebGUI::Fork creates	04:37
@preaction	sounds good	04:38
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6032319 / lib/WebGUI/Test.pm : Uppercased table name for WebGUI::Fork test method. - http://bit.ly/g7GdEq	04:38
+perlDreamer	I think that'll do it	04:39
+perlDreamer	16 modules are missing POD	04:39
+perlDreamer	USPS drivers need updates from master	04:39
+perlDreamer	EMSSubmission fails	04:39
+perlDreamer	here's are some recent leak results for reference http://gist.github.com/765846	04:42
+perlDreamer	lots of email	04:42
+perlDreamer	1 LDAP link	04:42
+perlDreamer	some assets	04:42
+perlDreamer	some workflow instances	04:42
+perlDreamer	not too shabby	04:42
* perlDreamer is going to switch to Daddy mode, I'll be back in a couple of hours		04:42
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@preaction	if i wanted to add chat (again) to webgui, how would you expect it to work?	07:08
@preaction	would one Chat asset be one room?	07:08
+perlDreamer	that would allow for fine grained permissions	07:08
@preaction	i want something awesome for the WebGUI 8 presentation i'm giving in Feb. reworking my old Chat asset into an 8 asset would suffice for me	07:09
@preaction	i'm also thinking of adding Djabberd support, using WebGUI::Fork and custom plugins to connect to Chat assets using any XMPP client	07:09
+perlDreamer	URI is absolutely awful about handling UTF8 content	07:09
@preaction	really?	07:09
+perlDreamer	yeah	07:09
@preaction	don't we use it to handle UTF8 stuff though?	07:10
+perlDreamer	no	07:10
+perlDreamer	even Plack seems to avoid it	07:10
+perlDreamer	it's more likely that I don't know what I'm doing	07:10
+perlDreamer	and we need some kind of decode when we're done	07:10
+perlDreamer	I thought I'd build a URI object for removing the gateway from the incoming URL	07:12
+perlDreamer	not fun	07:12
@preaction	you shouldn't have to though, graham says plack will do that for you	07:24
@preaction	you just have to mount '/base'	07:24
* perlDreamer doesn't believe that, and I've read through the Plack::Request code		07:24
+perlDreamer	it just works with or without SCRIPT_NAME	07:25
+perlDreamer	it won't ever give you a URL without SCRIPT_NAME added to it	07:25
@preaction	$request->base should have the mountpoint in it, but then i haven't tried anything	07:25
+perlDreamer	it does have the mountpoint in it	07:25
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+perlDreamer	however, what's really useful for a mounted app is to have the gateway/SCRIPT_NAME automatically removed for you	07:26
+perlDreamer	I don't think Plack does that	07:26
@preaction	ahh	07:26
@preaction	you can't just match $request->base and remove it?	07:26
@preaction	anyway, i'll stop telling you your business	07:26
@preaction	and instead marvel at how CLI programs used to be, and how much i hate them for that	07:27
+perlDreamer	no you can, and i wanted to do that with URI, since you can construct a relative URL from an arbitrary URL, like $request->base, but then you run into UTF-8 problems	07:27
@preaction	CLI programs should be App:: modules that accept configuration as methods, so one can use it as a module, or on the command-line	07:28
@preaction	ahh	07:28
+perlDreamer	I'd love to have an hour of Haarg's time to walk through this with me, just to make sure I'm not missing something, especially with the encoding/decoding	07:29
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+perlDreamer	hm, so the only way to test app.psgi is to run plack?	07:33
+perlDreamer	no test magic?	07:34
@preaction	maybe the Plack module has a way to load any random psgi file?	07:35
@preaction	or you could, in theory, use "my $app = do file"	07:35
@preaction	i think	07:35
@preaction	looks like Plack::Runner->run() is what you want maybe?	07:36
+perlDreamer	we need to do something, otherwise, pseudo-live testing in Plack won't ever use the gateway URL	07:36
+perlDreamer	and it needs to be added to WebGUI::Test::Mechanize	07:37
+perlDreamer	that alone may be the best reason to scrap this idea, since this implementation of the gateway depends on mounting the app	07:37
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:26
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+perlDreamer	morning everybody!	19:03
+perlDreamer	dreamersgirl, shouldn't you be paying attention to class?	19:03
dreamersgirl	I am...	19:04
dreamersgirl	Lecturer was late, so I signed on during break. :)	19:04
Haarg	perlDreamer, if you want to talk about gateway stuff at some point let me know	19:06
+perlDreamer	yeah, let's talk gateway	19:06
+perlDreamer	it's not all that common for us both to be around at the same time anymore, so I'll take advantage of it now	19:07
+perlDreamer	I'll build a patch so you can see what I'm doing	19:08
+perlDreamer	I'd love to use URI more, but it gives me problems with UTF-8 urls	19:09
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+perlDreamer	Haarg: this is what I've done http://gist.github.com/766604	19:11
+perlDreamer	it's little more than s/config->get('gateway')/request->base->path_info/	19:12
Haarg	looks like the patch is reversed?	19:13
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/766609	19:16
+perlDreamer	I reversed the args on the command line	19:16
+perlDreamer	Open questions that I have:	19:16
+perlDreamer	1) I know that you originally intended on doing a lot of this work yourself. Is the way that I did it what you had in mind?	19:17
+perlDreamer	2) I don't see how, using Test::WWW::Mechanize::PSGI how to test mount paths/points.	19:18
Haarg	1) not quite. instead of trying to figure the gateway and using that, we should just use what Plack::Request provides	19:21
Haarg	to get the requested URL, use $request->path	19:21
Haarg	and then, to generate URLs to use, use something along the lines of what is in the Plack::Request dispatching example	19:22
+perlDreamer	but that takes me to #2, where I can't test that	19:22
Haarg	is there any need to?	19:22
+perlDreamer	well yeah, I'd like to build test to make sure it works now, and keeps working	19:23
Haarg	i guess i kind of see it as testing third part code, but you could certainly make something with URLMap that could test it	19:24
+perlDreamer	Isn't URLMap built into Plack now, or are you thinking it would just let me build an app for testing?	19:24
Haarg	it is built into plack, and it would allow you to build an app to do testing	19:25
Haarg	the way it should work in my mind is that sitename and gateway are only used by app.psgi and spectre	19:29
+perlDreamer	so, inside WebGUI itself, we should use $request->base->path_info and $request->base->host?	19:31
Haarg	and to change the hostToUse setting to a choice between default (based on $req->base) and a user defined address	19:31
Haarg	$req->path_info and $req->base	19:32
Haarg	no reason to care about the host specifically on the base address	19:32
+perlDreamer	a bare sitename is used in places in WebGUI	19:35
+perlDreamer	like the UID for events in ical feeds	19:35
Haarg	it probably shouldn't be	19:35
+perlDreamer	probably, in that particular case it wouldn't hurt to use the hostname and gateway	19:36
+perlDreamer	and in the other uses I'm seeing, it's a violation of the gateway policy	19:36
+perlDreamer	like in Widgets	19:36
+perlDreamer	ITransact paydriver	19:36
+perlDreamer	Snippet export URL path	19:37
+perlDreamer	also, regarding testing 3rd party software, I completely agree, what I'd be testing is the way that I'm using it, to make sure I've done it correctly	19:39
CIA-71	webgui: Paul Driver master * r41ac1f1 / (5 files in 5 dirs): Template Preview button - http://bit.ly/htAnMr	20:42
CIA-71	webgui: Paul Driver master * r9f9cac0 / www/extras/templatePreview.js : whoops, forgot the js - http://bit.ly/hOPAz6	20:44
+perlDreamer	frodwith++ for i18n :)	20:45
CIA-71	webgui: Paul Driver master * rcdda623 / www/extras/templatePreview.js : jslinting the preview js - http://bit.ly/dHQ57Y	20:48
@preaction	uh. our image annotation thing doesn't actually add the text to the image? it just uses JS to work?	21:01
@preaction	does anyone know how it was supposed to work? i suspect i'm supposed to fix it	21:02
Haarg	the person who wrote it didn't really know what they were doing	21:07
dreamersgirl	wasn't me. ;)	21:09
+perlDreamer	preaction, that's correct, it's all JS based	21:17
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@preaction	but, afaik, it was supposed to add the text to the image itself, no?	21:26
Haarg	you'd have to ask jt	21:27
+perlDreamer	yeah	21:27
+perlDreamer	why are you supposed to fix it?	21:27
Haarg	doing that would probably require storing an extra copy of the image as well as the annotation information	21:27
@preaction	because it's crap code and i'm supposed to fix crap code, not perpetuate it	21:28
advancedalarmtec	which version of the wre would you guys recomend installing on ubuntu 10.10 server?	21:38
+perlDreamer	0.9.3	21:39
@preaction	as long as it's not 64-bit, if it is, you'll want to compile yourself from the latest git version	21:40
advancedalarmtec	32 bit version. I have tried downloading and installing wre-0.9.3-ubuntu-6server-ia32.tar.gz I followed the instructions listed on the webgui website for the install. After I create the site and try to restart services for the life of me I can't get mod_perl or mod_proxy to start. Is there something that I'm missing that I need to do? On the ubuntu 10.10 server I don't have anything	21:45
advancedalarmtec	installed, it's a fresh install with no other software downloaded or installed.	21:45
+perlDreamer	maybe that's the problem?	21:45
+perlDreamer	you're missing libraries?	21:45
+perlDreamer	or you have mysql installed?	21:45
+perlDreamer	or you're not running setenvironment.sh	21:46
@preaction	did you run testEnvironment from webgui after running wre's setenvironment?	21:46
advancedalarmtec	after running the wre I run the testEnvironment	21:48
advancedalarmtec	the wre downloads and installs webgui...therefore I can't run the testEnvirnment before the wre unless I manually download webgui and run it before hand	21:48
+perlDreamer	does testEnvironment run clean?	21:49
+perlDreamer	have you looked in the error logs (/data/wre/var/logs/modperl.error.log and ...modproxy.error.log) to see why they aren't starting?	21:50
advancedalarmtec	no, I have a list of modules I have to manually install before the testEnvironment runs clean, but yes I can eventually make the testEnvirnment runt clean	21:50
+perlDreamer	that's normal, the WRE usually lags behind what WebGUI needs in modules	21:51
+perlDreamer	how about the error logs?	21:51
advancedalarmtec	no, I didn't know there was another location for the modperl or modproxy error log, I thought they were all in the /var/webgui.log file...I will check the others and find out what they say	21:52
* perlDreamer wanders off for some lunch		21:53
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advancedalarmtec	are you supposed to install apache2 prior to running ./wreconsole.pl ?	22:01
@preaction	the WRE includes apache	22:01
@preaction	but wreconsole uses its own http server	22:01
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advancedalarmtec	if you are using wre, does webgui use the http server that the wre uses?	22:03
advancedalarmtec	or do you have to install apache2 and manually set up the virtual hosts?	22:04
@preaction	the WRE includes apache and the WRE sets up WebGUI to use its apache/mysql/perl stack	22:04
advancedalarmtec	ok, so since i'm trying to install the wre I should not install apache2 or mysql prior to running the ./wreconsole.pl	22:05
@preaction	correct	22:07
@preaction	i suppose if i would redo the annotation thing, the problem would be fonts. where are they? how do i add more?	22:24
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advancedalarmtec	I have a stupid question...it appears that when I run ./testEnvironment.pl when it fails, I find the equivalent aptitude install xxxxxxxxx. Would it be better if all the perl modules were installed using aptitude since it doesn't appear to ever fail installing things?	22:48
@preaction	no, aptitude installs for your system perl, not the WRE's perl	22:49
advancedalarmtec	so when when the ./testEnvironemtn fails, I shouldn't use aptitude to get the package?	22:50
@preaction	no	22:50
advancedalarmtec	oh...that must be what I'm doing wrong...what's my other option then?	22:50
@preaction	cpan force install?	22:51
advancedalarmtec	I will do that instead...thank you @preaction I didn't know there was a difference...that may be what was wrong with me installing it from source previously	22:52
advancedalarmtec	when I get this installed finally, and working 100% I'm going to write the complete idiot's guide to installing webgui ;) lol	22:59
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advancedalarmtec	if a force install of a module fails, the only thing left to do is download the source and compile/install it from there?	23:38
@preaction	what module?	23:40
advancedalarmtec	DBI	23:41
advancedalarmtec	ls	23:42
@preaction	do you have build-essential on your system?	23:43
advancedalarmtec	I don't believe so, it's a fresh install	23:44
@preaction	without build-essential you can't install most anything from cpan	23:44
@preaction	the /data/wre/docs/install.txt explains what you need	23:44
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advancedalarmtec	once again thank you #preaction, I have read that file and it doesn't say anything about installing build-essential that I saw. DBI has installed without any problems, moving forward to the others	23:56
--- Day changed Thu Jan 06 2011
advancedalarmtec	DBD::mysql failed, even with a force install any ideas?	00:00
scrottie0	you have mysql installed? paste the output of running make into gist.github.com?	00:02
advancedalarmtec	mysql was installed using the ./wreconsole.pl	00:02
scrottie0	and you're building DBD::mysql against your own local perl?	00:03
scrottie0	you'll have to tell it where in /data/wre to find the MySQL that came with the WRE.	00:03
advancedalarmtec	would it be the location of the my.cnf file in the wre folder?	00:06
scrottie0	don't remember. I'd have to look at the docs. ditto for the perl Makefile.PL arg name.	00:08
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advancedalarmtec	I know I can run: sudo aptitude install libdbd-mysql-perl, but @preaction said that if you install via aptitude it won't work with webgui or wre	00:14
+perlDreamer	that won't install it in the WRE	00:15
+perlDreamer	and the WRE should already provide that	00:15
scrottie0	if you build your own perl, at a minimum you're going to have to also build a new mod_perl against the apache in the WRE as well as building your own DBD::mysql against the mysql in there.	00:17
@preaction	if the WRE doesn't appear to provide that, you might not be working in the WRE's environment	00:17
scrottie0	there are docs for source installs and for WRE installs but not really any for a hybrid install like that.	00:17
@preaction	type "which perl" and what comes up? it should be /data/wre/prereqs/bin/perl	00:17
advancedalarmtec	it shows /data/wre/prereqs/bin/perl	00:18
scrottie0	that should already have a DBD::mysql though things might be non-operational now.	00:19
scrottie0	was the WRE just not working for some reason and you're doing this to fix it? or is your goal to use a newer/custom build of perl...?	00:20
advancedalarmtec	I ran the wre	00:21
advancedalarmtec	after I ran the wre, mod_perl and mod_proxy wouldn't work, so I went to the WebGUI/sbin folder and ran the testEnvironment	00:22
advancedalarmtec	am I not supposed to run the testEnvironment on an wre installation?	00:23
sbaur	you definitely should run testEnvironment on a WRE install	00:28
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advancedalarmtec	I've gotta head out, I'll be back later. Thank you all for your help	00:30
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CIA-71	webgui: Paul Driver master * rb3a1e6c / www/extras/templatePreview.js : IE fixes for preview, modal dialog instead of popup window - http://bit.ly/e1T3VV	00:33
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cj	scrottie0: moo	00:36
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@preaction	yo know what i wish? that the matrix had tests	01:30
* preaction writes some		01:31
@preaction	my wish CAN come true!	01:31
scrottie0	heya cj	01:32
scrottie0	I left my cell phone charger somewhere in eastern Washington, btw.	01:33
+perlDreamer	eastern Washington is a nice place for cell phone chargers, radioactive rabbits and skiing	01:45
+perlDreamer	matrix has _some_ tests, just not lots	01:45
@preaction	MatrixListing.t had two tests: making sure addChild returned the right classes that were just created :p	01:48
+perlDreamer	ugh	01:54
+perlDreamer	now maybe I can get back to 8	02:07
@preaction	yay!	02:08
@preaction	sub editAttributeSave in the matrix is awesome! check out that privilege check, and then check out how the sub is used	02:16
+perlDreamer	awesomeness will have to wait for a return from the garage	02:21
+perlDreamer	back in 75	02:21
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+perlDreamer	preaction, I see what you mean	04:55
+perlDreamer	perhaps return 0 would be better	04:55
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SDuensin	Hey all.	16:23
+bartjol	hi lonely person	16:37
SDuensin	That'd be me. :-/	16:38
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+bartjol	howdy perlDreamer	17:40
+perlDreamer	hey bartjol	17:51
+perlDreamer	more WRE script fixing?	17:51
+bartjol	well, as you prolly have seen	17:52
+perlDreamer	oh yes, much email in the inbox	17:53
+bartjol	sorry, sometimes forget to right it in one go	17:56
+bartjol	write it	17:56
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+perlDreamer	eh, it happens to me all the time	18:03
+perlDreamer	which is why I write tests :)	18:03
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+bartjol	hey, I do the pull request in a normal manner nowadays	18:05
+perlDreamer	you do, and it's great	18:08
+perlDreamer	but, should we pull them both, or just the one?	18:09
+bartjol	both	18:09
+bartjol	or	18:09
+bartjol	wait, the last one is correct	18:09
+bartjol	the first one has a bug	18:09
+bartjol	so the latest one should be in good order	18:10
+perlDreamer	okay	18:12
+bartjol	btw are there any wre plans for wg 8? or will it be basically be the same, considering the wre-scripts?	18:19
+bartjol	off course the apache stuff will be replaced by Plack	18:21
+bartjol	and wreservice script should change	18:22
+perlDreamer	modperl => plack	18:23
+perlDreamer	modproxy => nginx, I think	18:23
+perlDreamer	however, now that we're not using two different apaches, there's no reason for us not to use native packages	18:24
+perlDreamer	that's just my opinion, I have never been a big fan of the WRE	18:24
+perlDreamer	I'd just as soon install a native distribution package from a private repo	18:24
+bartjol	well, pro's cons etc	18:25
+perlDreamer	yeah, like perl module versions	18:25
+perlDreamer	TinyMCE version	18:25
+perlDreamer	etc.	18:25
+bartjol	it does make it easier to replicate erros	18:25
+bartjol	have you been told about the webgui starter project?	18:26
+perlDreamer	I've heard little snippets	18:26
+perlDreamer	but nothing with a lot of details recently	18:26
+perlDreamer	the idea to build a $5 hosted WebGUI site?	18:27
+bartjol	yeah, without people intervening	18:28
+bartjol	we have the technical side mostly done	18:28
+perlDreamer	nice!	18:29
+bartjol	the restarting of the webservers was one of the holdups, you don't wannna have your webuser to have (indirect) root rights	18:29
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym to keep that hope that I can beat bartjol in the WUC 2011 Great Arm Wrestling Contest		19:15
+bartjol	eeh we have never done that competition	19:16
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+perlDreamer	words to the wise	20:33
+perlDreamer	if your request for help starts with, "Your software sucks, how can I do this in your software"	20:34
+perlDreamer	then you should expect to receive an answer like, "Build it yourself, since our software sucks"	20:34
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CIA-71	webgui: Paul Driver master * r61245ba / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix template preview to work with chunked content and template post-processing (in Layout, for instance) - http://bit.ly/eF9DO8	22:43
@frodwith	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3tWmdHviZg	23:25
+perlDreamer	now you're just bragging :)	23:29
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qwebirc193057	hello all	23:31
+perlDreamer	howdy	23:31
qwebirc193057	when you run the testEnvironment for the first time do you want cpan to use the automatic configuration, or should we enter the dialog with it?	23:36
sbaur	frodwith: that looks very cool	23:37
@frodwith	:)	23:37
sbaur	you say it should be pretty easy to backport... all the way back to 7.5.40?	23:38
sbaur	though I really need to get my sites updated	23:39
@preaction	qwebirc193057: i tend to exit out of the testEnvironment.pl at that stage, because the autoconfig will not do some things because it's not in the shell mode	23:41
@preaction	running "cpan" from the command-line, doing "o conf init" and letting it autosetup is what i usually do	23:42
@preaction	then i fix "o conf prerequisites_policy follow" and "o conf auto_commit yes" and finally do as it asks "o conf init urllist"	23:42
+perlDreamer	I usually run testEnvironment.pl --simpleReport, which will tell you which modules are missing	23:44
qwebirc193057	perlDreamer: then use cpan to manually install each module that's not installed?	23:45
+perlDreamer	yes, doing the same configuration that preaction talked about to make using cpan easier	23:46
+perlDreamer	preaction, if getRequestedUrl all of a sudden started returning URLs with initial slashes, do you think that would be bad?	23:49
+perlDreamer	$session->getRequestedUrl to be precise	23:49
@preaction	perlDreamer: i can't see why, as newByUrl always strips them off anyway	23:49
@preaction	we've taken "Be liberal in what you expect" to buggy heights	23:49
+perlDreamer	yeah, that's what I'm thinking too, just need to update some tests	23:50
--- Day changed Fri Jan 07 2011
+perlDreamer	okay, time to relearn Encode and URI again	00:00
@frodwith	sbaur: for some definition of "easy", yes	00:09
@frodwith	it should be backportable	00:09
@frodwith	you'll have to sort through the patches	00:09
@frodwith	but it's not relying on anything recent that I'm aware of	00:09
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qwebirc193057	in configuring cpan is there any extra url i should add to the list other than the ones they list when running o conf init urllist?	00:50
@preaction	any standard cpan mirror is fine	00:51
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@preaction	hell. zabbix CAN do maintenance periods. i'll start using them now i guess	01:02
@preaction	ooh, you can even set up recurring maintenance periods	01:04
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+perlDreamer	hm, a watched turkey never boils	03:14
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qwebirc193057	anyone have any tips on installing DBD::mysql? it keeps failing using cpan	09:28
qwebirc193057	mysql was installed using the wre 0.9.3	09:30
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SDuensin	FrIdAy!	16:26
+bartjol	is that an automated post?	16:26
+bartjol	but indeed friday afternoon, upgrade time :)	16:27
SDuensin	hehe	16:27
SDuensin	It's a finger macro. :-)	16:28
qwebirc193057	anyone have any tips on installing DBD::mysql? it keeps failing using cpan	16:38
qwebirc193057	mysql was installed using the wre 0.9.3	16:38
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SDuensin	qwebirc193057: Did you remember to setEnvironment before running cpan?	16:46
qwebirc193057	yes	16:51
SDuensin	Well, there goes my big idea. :-)	16:52
SDuensin	What's the error?	16:52
qwebirc193057	i got it, went to souce file and had to run: sudo perl Makefile.PL --mysql_config /data/wre/prereqs/bin/mysql_config	16:53
SDuensin	cool	16:54
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+bartjol	strange though, I haven't seen that problem before	17:22
+bartjol	but, it might need root rights and sudo-ing does change the environment again	17:24
+bartjol	you do habe it in the correct perl now?	17:25
+bartjol	so in wre perl, not system perl?	17:26
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+perlDreamer	hey, bartjol!	18:48
bartjol	hey	18:52
bartjol	what's up	18:52
bartjol	gonna crack my code?	18:53
+perlDreamer	Probably on Monday	18:54
+perlDreamer	Monday is now super bug fixing and code merging day	18:54
@preaction	indeed	18:54
bartjol	ah, so I can supply you with work wrint bad code	18:55
bartjol	or bad english	18:55
bartjol	the only thing that might not be good is that when I check for rotations I get it from the config and then comapre it as a string	18:56
+perlDreamer	why not compare it as a number?	18:57
bartjol	but that is more a taste matter	18:57
bartjol	just was my first go	18:57
* perlDreamer likes Sriracha with his strings :)		18:57
bartjol	didn't think about it till later	18:57
bartjol	testing now	19:00
bartjol	hot saucce?	19:01
+perlDreamer	oh yes	19:01
bartjol	commited to github	19:03
bartjol	do I need to make a new pull request?	19:03
bartjol	perlDreamer: ?or will that be included automatically?	19:05
+perlDreamer	it would be handy to know which revision to pull, so another pull request would be appreciated	19:05
bartjol	well,there are 3 revisions now	19:06
bartjol	do you want the commit url here and now or shall I put it in the bug report?	19:07
+perlDreamer	bug report, please	19:07
bartjol	there you go	19:08
bartjol	and here I go	19:09
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* scrottie0 waves hullo		19:21
+perlDreamer	welcome back, scrottie0	19:22
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scrottie0	heya perlDreamer.	19:36
scrottie0	thanks.	19:36
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@scrottie	seems like skype still isn't very stable.	22:28
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+Radix_	scrottie: their new super mega nodes need to be ultra boosted before they'll work reliably I heard. But don't worry.. their Ultimate Awesome nodes are coming online soon to replace them.	04:58
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CIA-71	webgui: Paul Driver master * r82c6c58 / (3 files in 3 dirs): rfe #12016: add more functionality to story_loop - http://bit.ly/fVVIbI	18:33
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CIA-71	webgui: Paul Driver master * r5fc7b42 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Template help for the additional topic variables - http://bit.ly/h2aNv1	19:32
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+perlDreamer	preaction: I'm working on closing out Arjan's maximumAsset bugs	20:08
@preaction	ok	20:08
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CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r33698fc / lib/WebGUI/Session/Form.pm : Remove old debugging code for validToken. - http://bit.ly/gmk2pB	20:18
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdfffaf3 / t/Asset/maximum_assets.t : Add a test for tripping maximum assets to make sure it works. We will depend on the live tests for www_editSave to determine the opposite case. - http://bit.ly/f7sqIs	20:18
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r96eb9bb / lib/WebGUI/Session/Form.pm : Remove old debugging code for validToken. - http://bit.ly/fifU7N	20:18
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rd111b55 / t/Asset/maximum_assets.t : Add a test for tripping maximum assets to make sure it works. We will depend on the live tests for www_editSave to determine the opposite case. - http://bit.ly/ffCvHU	20:18
+perlDreamer	preaction, moving on to Squonk's userLoginLog bug	20:21
+perlDreamer	are you still working bottom up?	20:21
@preaction	i will be, once i finish these e-mails and followups	20:21
@preaction	but i will also assign the bugs to myself before i start working on them, as always	20:21
+perlDreamer	cool, after I add the indeces, I'm going to the doctor	20:21
@preaction	ok	20:22
+perlDreamer	remember when I was sick in December?	20:22
@preaction	yes	20:22
@preaction	it's back?	20:22
+perlDreamer	According to my sinuses, it's still December	20:22
@preaction	ouch, feel better	20:23
CIA-71	webgui: Paul Driver master * r28f4b1b / (4 files in 3 dirs): rfe #10521: Use monospaced font in template edit textarea - http://bit.ly/fMDfiv	20:33
CIA-71	webgui: Paul Driver master * r702d00b / (lib/WebGUI/Session/Form.pm t/Asset/maximum_assets.t): Merge branch 'master' of github.com:plainblack/webgui - http://bit.ly/gZBJav	20:33
+perlDreamer	preaction, what do you think about promoting that RFE to a bug to help the people out in 7.9?	20:38
@preaction	the monospaced font one?	20:38
+perlDreamer	yes, and tab	20:38
@preaction	sure	20:38
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r727e45c / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add indeces to the userLoginLog to help with cleanup. Fixes bug #12008 - http://bit.ly/gVf375	20:40
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf305cdd / (3 files in 2 dirs): Add indeces to the userLoginLog to help with cleanup. Fixes bug #12008 - http://bit.ly/fZ2xAN	20:42
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CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf78961d / (4 files in 3 dirs): rfe #10521: Use monospaced font in template edit textarea. Promoted to a bug to help the people in 7.9 - http://bit.ly/hQaK2w	20:43
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+perlDreamer	preaction: your blog feed isn't in the ironman feed	21:00
@preaction	it won't be. bi-weekly. i can't support weekly	21:00
@preaction	or does that not matter?	21:01
* perlDreamer doesn't think it matters		21:01
@preaction	i'm subscribed to blogs.perl.org's top-level RSS	21:01
+perlDreamer	no one reads that	21:01
@preaction	and apparently i've got replies that i didn't get notified about too...	21:02
+perlDreamer	just 3	21:02
+perlDreamer	CGI is really only a novelty, since it isn't a gateway to running WebGUI on cheap hosting yet	21:03
+perlDreamer	due to spectre	21:03
+perlDreamer	but that shall change too, yes?	21:03
@preaction	i'm hoping, yes. actually, most of WebGUI works w/o spectre, except the damnable maintenance tasks	21:03
@preaction	and yes, novelty only. but i was surprised at how well it performed. 2.5wallclock seconds to render a page, on my crap laptop	21:04
@preaction	0.9 user seconds. far longer than users would like, but far faster than i expected	21:04
@preaction	added to ironman, thanks	21:05
sbaur	hi everyone	21:17
+perlDreamer	hey sbaur!	21:17
sbaur	how long should it take dns changes in automat to apply? I've just made 3, 2 of which happened almost instantly, the third, i'm still waiting for...	21:18
sbaur	I'm adding 1 cname to 3 different domains	21:18
@preaction	depends on how long the TTL is, 86400 is 24h	21:18
@scrottie	DNS caches failure. don't cache failure.	21:19
@preaction	the TTL is how long the DNS should cache the result. dig @worldwidedns.net yourdomain <- should verify the change will get replicated	21:19
+perlDreamer	I think our default TTL is 4 hours	21:20
@preaction	yes	21:20
+perlDreamer	preaction: have you read this bug: Errors parsing JSON for EXIF in Gallery��(#12002)	21:22
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/12002	21:22
@preaction	huh. looks like a JSON encoder bug, but we should definitely plan for it	21:23
sbaur	thanks for your help	21:23
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@preaction	perlDreamer: what's the schedule for release looking like?	23:21
* perlDreamer is very boring		23:21
+perlDreamer	9:00pm tonight, my time	23:21
+perlDreamer	that's usually when I do it	23:21
+perlDreamer	right after kids go to bed	23:21
+perlDreamer	that way, I can do the release and sleep sound with the knowledge that websites all over the world are less buggy	23:22
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra96a9c3 / (2 files): Update tests to handle new data being returned from USPS, for both domestic and international shipping. No driver changes required so far. - http://bit.ly/fLjasS	23:26
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra0119e9 / (2 files in 2 dirs): When setting photo JSON, wrap the json serialization in an eval to trap errors. Addresses bug #12002. - http://bit.ly/faMhoV	23:26
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r88c6c32 / (2 files in 2 dirs): When setting photo JSON, wrap the json serialization in an eval to trap errors. Addresses bug #12002. - http://bit.ly/gyIwiS	23:26
+perlDreamer	sorry about that, preaction, I forgot to port the test fixes in 7.9 to master sooner	23:27
+perlDreamer	if your USPS tests are failing, that's why	23:27
@preaction	np, i'm still catching up on e-mail and making design decisions for paul's RFEs	23:27
@preaction	also trying to make sure i'm maximizing my marketing of the blog posts about WebGUI, as i'll be making more of them and want them to have some impact. i've languished on this front for 12 months too long	23:29
Haarg	i'm confused by that exif/json change. how would that address the bug?	23:30
+perlDreamer	it won't die any more	23:31
+perlDreamer	but it won't set the JSON either	23:31
Haarg	unless i'm missing something, it didn't die before	23:31
Haarg	it died when it tried to decode it	23:31
Haarg	which is already trapped with an eval	23:31
Haarg	the broken json wouldn't have made it into the database if the encode process died	23:32
Haarg	would be good to get arjan's JSON and JSON::XS versions	23:33
+perlDreamer	I'll back out those commits	23:37
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc65fd19 / (2 files in 2 dirs):	23:54
CIA-71	webgui: There was no dying due to this bug, it was trapped during deserialization, not serialization.	23:54
CIA-71	webgui: This reverts commit a0119e9e82adc4e10482d34f50734a7fcb32139a. - http://bit.ly/idt7op	23:54
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r6fa0aaf / (2 files in 2 dirs):	23:55
CIA-71	webgui: There was no dying due to this bug, it was trapped during deserialization, not serialization.	23:55
CIA-71	webgui: This reverts commit 88c6c329b1d3c545dd7d09e3eca86800d78f195d. - http://bit.ly/dFvzlO	23:55
--- Day changed Tue Jan 11 2011
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CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6f34c25 / (4 files in 4 dirs):	00:09
CIA-71	webgui: Prevent SSO fixation attacks against WebGUI by modifying Operation/SSO to log	00:09
CIA-71	webgui: the user in as the user with a different session, and to require a flag in the	00:09
CIA-71	webgui: config file to enable it. This feature will be removed in WebGUI 8. Fixes bug	00:09
CIA-71	webgui: #12004. - http://bit.ly/epGqLt	00:09
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r688000b / (4 files in 4 dirs):	00:11
CIA-71	webgui: Prevent SSO fixation attacks against WebGUI by modifying Operation/SSO to log	00:11
CIA-71	webgui: the user in as the user with a different session, and to require a flag in the	00:11
CIA-71	webgui: config file to enable it. This feature will be removed in WebGUI 8. Fixes bug	00:11
CIA-71	webgui: #12004. - http://bit.ly/g2oBmH	00:11
@preaction	finally! now 3 hours of bugfixing times!	00:34
+perlDreamer	yay, bugfixing!	00:40
@preaction	just wow. Map doesn't work with CrystalX style...	00:55
@preaction	i didn't think it possible...	00:55
+perlDreamer	Have you seen the forms on the Underground site?	00:56
+perlDreamer	All forms get built vertically, due to the Underground CSS	00:56
+perlDreamer	for radio button and checkbox lists	00:56
@preaction	yay!	01:02
@preaction	so i need to make a CSS class so the style can be overridden, but if i make it a class it's very non-specific so the bug won't be fixed if it's overridden by a more-specific selector	01:10
@preaction	but i can't make it an ID and keep it overridable. and if i make it an inline style, it would be specific enough to fix the bug, but not overridable	01:10
@preaction	oh... duh... !important	01:11
+perlDreamer	so this is my solution to us working on the same bug at the same time	01:12
+perlDreamer	if you work on it, you should assign it to yourself	01:12
+perlDreamer	if I work on it, I'll assign it to you, too	01:12
+perlDreamer	that way, you'll see that you're already working on the bug, and won't start working on it!	01:12
@preaction	ooh good idea!	01:13
@preaction	but i assigned this one!	01:13
@preaction	i'm working on the mappoint one	01:13
@preaction	there's 5 others exactly like it	01:13
+perlDreamer	that's okay, because you assigned it to yourself and starting working on it	01:14
@preaction	ahhh	01:14
+perlDreamer	and you can have the 5 others, too	01:27
+perlDreamer	but you'll have to assign them to yourself, otherwise you won't work on them	01:27
@preaction	indeed	01:31
@preaction	what's your projected time for the release?	01:31
+perlDreamer	(01:21:32 PM) perlDreamer: 9:00pm tonight, my time	01:32
@preaction	ah, sorry. good, then i may have time to eat	01:33
+perlDreamer	oh yes	01:33
+perlDreamer	hack on	01:33
+perlDreamer	eat on	01:33
+perlDreamer	all is on	01:33
* perlDreamer recommends http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine		01:34
+perlDreamer	saw it on Iron Chef America last night, made with lobster	01:34
@preaction	poutine with lobster?	01:35
+perlDreamer	yes	01:35
@preaction	i've got a canadian friend, so i eat poutine lots. it's awesome the way mac and cheese is awesome	01:35
+perlDreamer	that particular dish may even have won it for the challenger	01:35
@preaction	ooh, carne asada frites! (mexican poutine)	01:36
@preaction	instead of tortilla chips / nachos, french fries! my mind == BLOWN	01:37
@preaction	so, essentially, ground beef, sour cream, and cheese over fries. like Brass Ring has chili fries	01:38
+perlDreamer	nacho fries	01:38
@preaction	yeah	01:39
@preaction	and that's led me to burritos and now i want burritos	01:39
@preaction	i make excellent san-fran-style burritos, lime/cilantro rice, black beans, ground beef, cheese, sour cream	01:40
@preaction	only wish they sold 16" burrito shells at my local grocer, or i was patient enough to make my own	01:41
+perlDreamer	how do you make your lime/cilantro rice?	01:42
+perlDreamer	is it Chipotle (TM) style?	01:42
@preaction	pretty much	01:42
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf1dd08c / (3 files in 3 dirs): If there are missing, required fields when saving data to a thing, do not write it to the db. Fixes bug #11996. - http://bit.ly/gBIgIS	02:01
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0bc42cf / (3 files in 3 dirs): If there are missing, required fields when saving data to a thing, do not write it to the db. Fixes bug #11996. - http://bit.ly/gNmcRE	02:01
+perlDreamer	preaction: should we add script/type/src to the valid elements: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11992 ?	02:09
@preaction	i guess, if we allow script at all, then src should probably be allowed	02:10
@preaction	but that could just as easily go in the head tags	02:10
+perlDreamer	good ponit	02:13
+perlDreamer	good point, too	02:13
@preaction	i'd say allow src= in the Content Manager's Rich Editor. we already have the other ways to get rid of JS in the normal user areas	02:15
+perlDreamer	too late	02:15
+perlDreamer	I already closed the bug	02:15
@preaction	okay, but i'd expect, when i have HTML source, being the power user I am, that I could put whatever i care to in it, provided it's valid html	02:16
@preaction	power-user, non-programmer	02:16
+perlDreamer	it is valid HTML, and if users want to change it, they can modify the Rich Editor	02:16
+perlDreamer	our power users, being well educated and properly trained, should use head tags	02:17
@preaction	so it's broken by default, but to fix it you can just ...?	02:17
@preaction	actually, why do we disallow anything in the CM's rich edit?	02:18
+perlDreamer	so people don't make ugly content?	02:20
@preaction	many places say "Add us to your page, paste this snippet into your website!" When that doesn't work in an Article, who's fault is it?	02:21
+perlDreamer	do you want it enchanged, oh empowered one?	02:22
@preaction	i think that it would stop anyone from posting that bug again, so yes	02:22
* perlDreamer bows deeply, "Slim-jim-salad-shim"		02:24
+perlDreamer	actually, in the default CM rich editor we don't block anything	02:27
+perlDreamer	strong/b[],em/i[],[]	02:27
+perlDreamer	that lists strong and b as synonyms (prefer strong), similarly with em/i	02:27
+perlDreamer	and allows all other elements	02:27
@preaction	then... what's causing his problem?	02:28
* perlDreamer doesn't know, but I can duplicate it pretty easily		02:29
+perlDreamer	I think it's a bug in TinyMCE itself	02:29
+perlDreamer	because if I change the order of those 3 items, I can get it to do different things	02:29
+perlDreamer	maybe we _should_ look into that TinyMCE upgrade	02:31
+perlDreamer	hm, adding the script directly to the ruleset works	02:35
+perlDreamer	but it also has [], which is supposed to match everything	02:35
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@preaction	ooh, then survey could be a special type of dataform with actions and conditionals and other simple scripting!	03:08
@preaction	to start at the beginning: Side note for future development: DataForm without tabs should not exist. By default, it should have one tab called Default or something. Moving fields that are or are not inside tabs starts getting complicated quickly. I imagine someone will post a bug about how tabbed fields move in relation to the list view.	03:08
@preaction	Or, better idea, instead of editing the form in Admin Mode, a special "Form Editor" view. Then nobody would expect to edit the form in either data entry or list views.	03:08
@preaction	but again we define sections by their implementation. pages, tabs, and fieldsets	03:09
@preaction	sometimes we want inline editing, other times we don't. how do we decide?	03:11
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CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell master * r9be6da4 / (2 files in 2 dirs): fix 11987 map displays white text on white bg - http://bit.ly/ggdBVs	04:28
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell master * r2808a19 / (4 files in 4 dirs): fix 11988 dataform list view missing field control - http://bit.ly/exjcIv	04:28
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell master * rc0d5cc9 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataForm.pm : fix dataform jumping between views when moving fields - http://bit.ly/dIPQZ4	04:28
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell master * r6397f20 / t/Asset/Wobject/DataForm/viewList.t : fix test for new controls param - http://bit.ly/hA4iw2	04:28
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell master * r2e3ee7e / (2 files in 2 dirs):	04:28
CIA-71	webgui: fix 11989 Calendar list view isn't uniform and missing fields	04:28
CIA-71	webgui: also fixed timezone problem with the list view sections - http://bit.ly/dQWB6I	04:28
@preaction	yay! proof i did work today!	04:28
+perlDreamer	backport ? :)	04:28
@preaction	working on it, after test run	04:29
@preaction	though i didn't change much code, mostly templates	04:29
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* perlDreamer switches to Daddy mode for ~ 2 hours		05:08
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@preaction	perlDreamer: when you return from better things, I'm done for the day, so no waiting on me for release	05:16
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r8bf3cb6 / (2 files in 2 dirs): fix 11987 map displays white text on white bg - http://bit.ly/ekISJQ	05:16
CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r134cee2 / (4 files in 4 dirs): fix 11988 dataform list view missing field control - http://bit.ly/hLt46e	05:16
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+perlDreamer	preaction: you rock!	06:37
andyiomoon	why exactly does preaction rock?	06:52
andyiomoon	I don't doubt he does - I just want to see if we have the same reasons	06:52
+perlDreamer	How does preaction rock? let me count the ways	06:56
+perlDreamer	He wrote new tests	06:56
+perlDreamer	he ran the test suite	06:56
+perlDreamer	he fixed bugs	06:56
+perlDreamer	he wrote thoughtful responses to challenging emails about future code	06:56
+perlDreamer	he told me he was done so that I could release the code	06:57
+perlDreamer	he trusts me	06:57
+perlDreamer	that's fix for now	06:57
+perlDreamer	uh, six for now	06:57
andyiomoon	ok... I don't have any of those...	06:58
andyiomoon	but I will add them to my list	06:58
+perlDreamer	what did you have?	06:58
andyiomoon	he has a nice beard	06:58
andyiomoon	that	06:58
andyiomoon	is all	06:58
+perlDreamer	well, between us we got 7	06:58
andyiomoon	that's gunna be hard to top	06:59
andyiomoon	have you ever had cause to use passive analytics?	06:59
andyiomoon	he says, changing the subject	07:00
+perlDreamer	use it? no, but I did write it	07:00
andyiomoon	heh - whoops!	07:00
andyiomoon	so you did	07:00
andyiomoon	well - it has only taken a couple of years but I think Swinburne may be ready to use it :)	07:00
+perlDreamer	good deal!	07:01
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd5abe32 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.10.7 release - http://bit.ly/ea3gHl	07:02
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+perlDreamer	did you have some questions about what PA does and how it works, andyiomoon?	07:05
andyiomoon	I probably will have perlDreamer but I will wait until I get the definitive list of the questions Swinburne want to ask of the data before getting back to you.	07:10
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* perlDreamer will be around :)		07:10
andyiomoon	I can see it is all regex-ified... so we will most likely need someone who can turn a bunch of questions like "what is the average length of time a person spends in a program?" into a regex expression	07:11
andyiomoon	I'm not expecting it to be a trivial task :)	07:12
+perlDreamer	kind of	07:12
+perlDreamer	you can create different bins from the URLs that each person uses, and it tracks how long they spend in the bins	07:12
andyiomoon	can you assign groups of URls to a single bin?	07:14
andyiomoon	for example /programs/gad/ and all its children?	07:14
andyiomoon	perhaps we can talk about this some more when I have the list of Qs they want to ask	07:16
+perlDreamer	yes, based on the regexp	07:16
andyiomoon	cool	07:16
+perlDreamer	are the nippers and the boffins treating you well?	07:17
andyiomoon	heh - yes, both groups are behaving themselves	07:19
andyiomoon	I trust the same can be said of you	07:19
+perlDreamer	yes, kids went back to school and I am surviving so far	07:20
+perlDreamer	kathy also went back to school	07:20
+perlDreamer	now that her classes have little to do with general nursing, I'm less tense	07:20
+perlDreamer	she carries around sharp pointy things from time to time	07:21
+perlDreamer	and I'm very attached to the integrity of my skin	07:21
+perlDreamer	there's not much chance that she'll do a pelvic exam on me	07:21
andyiomoon	hah - not much chance sounds entirely like too much of a chance for my comfort!	07:23
+perlDreamer	well, hopefully at this stage in her training she knows that those with copious amounts of chest hair have "outdoor plumbing", which don't require pelvic exams	07:23
+perlDreamer	if not, I'll try to tell her before it gets too uncomfortable	07:24
andyiomoon	nice to have a backup plan at least	07:24
andyiomoon	and on that rather interesting note I shall bid you adieu... chat soon	07:24
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CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r006c27f / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.8 development. - http://bit.ly/eD2Aqc	07:35
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buu	Ah-ha	07:39
+perlDreamer	yes, buu, you've found us.	07:43
buu	^_^	07:45
buu	More people to stalk	07:45
+perlDreamer	you have WebGUI questions, perhaps?	07:45
@scrottie	oh, piss.	07:45
@scrottie	hey, buu, get a haircut.	07:46
buu	Hey, your hair is longer than mine	07:47
+perlDreamer	but scrottie rocks the 'hawk, so we permit it	07:48
buu	Hey now, my hair is pretty rocking	07:48
buu	Although honestly I haven't shaved in weeks so I'm more rocking the homeless bum thing	07:48
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carogray	Is there a way to change a bunch of URL's automatically?	15:19
carogray	That is if we posted a book - Each page layout is something like income-benefits/tafdc-advocacy-guide/ch1/q1-eligibility	15:19
carogray	income-benefits/tafdc-advocacy-guide/ch1/q2-do-i-qualify	15:20
carogray	income-benefits/tafdc-advocacy-guide/ch1/q3-denials	15:20
carogray	and each main article on these pages is the same URL as the page layout, but just has -article at the end i.e. income-benefits/tafdc-advocacy-guide/ch1/q1-eligibility-article	15:21
carogray	Then the following year we want to stick in income-benefits/tafdc-advocacy-guide/ch1/q2-how-do-i-apply and then renumber ...q2-do-i-qualifyto ...q3-do-i-qualify, and ...q3-denials to ...q4-denials both on page layouts and articles - is there some macro or other way to do this?	15:24
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+bartjol	carogray: sorry I wouldn't know, I don't think so, allthough you might wanna run a test with edit branch, that is closest at the moment	16:19
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CIA-71	webgui: Paul Driver master * r2208864 / (4 files in 4 dirs): rfe #12016 for the top story as well - http://bit.ly/gTniCe	18:11
buu	Hey, quick question if anyone wouldn't mind, I've got a default install set up, with an empty top menu (I didn't choose to create a default set of pages), but when I create a new 'article' it shows up 'inside' the index page and has no entry in the menu? Does this mean it's somehow a child of whatever the index page is? How can I see this relationship and how do I create articles that show up in the nav?	18:12
+bartjol	articles are default not shown in menu's	18:14
buu	bartjol: I saw the option for 'hide from navigation', but I disabled that	18:14
+bartjol	you have to choose no there	18:15
+bartjol	ok	18:15
+bartjol	depending on the navigation template, different levels are shown	18:15
buu	Right	18:15
buu	I just created a new wiki, it has 'Hide From Naviation? [no]'	18:16
buu	But no menu entry..	18:16
buu	bartjol: It's like I'm creating these entries as children of that other page?	18:16
+bartjol	you can check that in the asset view (via the admin console	18:17
+bartjol	there it is shown which object is which object's child	18:17
buu	assetManager?	18:17
+bartjol	that one	18:17
buu	They appear to be children of 'Home'	18:17
+bartjol	and did you check the navigation/menu?	18:19
buu	What about it?	18:19
buu	I 'cut' and 'pasted' them into the top level	18:19
buu	'Root' I guess	18:19
buu	But still a sadly empty menu.	18:19
buu	OH	18:20
buu	I take it back!	18:20
buu	I'm missing background images..	18:21
+bartjol	ok, well good luck, I really have to go, but other people prolly will help too	18:21
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buu	Now I've got 9000 things in my menu haha	18:23
neil___	I currently have ver 7.9.18 installed , is it possible to 'upgrade' to 7.10.7 beta?	18:28
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@preaction	neil___: not presently, no. you have to wait until 7.10 goes stable, then there will be an upgrade path	19:00
neil___	Any idea how long of a wait?	19:03
@preaction	well, 7.10 won't stable until 8.0 goes beta, and that's most likely this summer	19:04
+perlDreamer	slog slog toil toil	19:05
@preaction	unfortunately, our releases got messed up since 8.0 got delayed by a bit. 7.10 was supposed to stabilize in jan/feb here	19:05
neil___	Can a beta get updated with a newer beta version?	19:07
+perlDreamer	sure	19:07
buu	preaction: Hey, do items always get created as a parent of whatever page I happen to be on?	19:08
@preaction	most likely yes, except for some very special circumstances	19:08
@preaction	everything is an Asset in webgui, so everything goes in the Asset tree	19:09
buu	preaction: And the index page is an Asset named Home	19:10
@preaction	right, which is set in the settings ("Default page")	19:10
buu	By the by, is there a suggestion someplace for a 'news' type page? Is it just a newsletter?	19:10
@preaction	i would do a Collaboration System, that thing is pretty much any type of threaded messaging system, Forum, Blog, even FAQ or weird stuff	19:11
@preaction	there's a News template for it as well	19:11
buu	Hrm	19:13
+perlDreamer	There's also the Story Manager	19:13
buu	What's the difference between Collaboration System and "Message board"?	19:14
@preaction	which may or may not be more complicated than you need.	19:14
@preaction	Message Board holds a bunch of Collaboration Systems for the individual "Forums"	19:14
* perlDreamer goes to the gym		19:14
buu	Oh	19:14
buu	How recursive	19:15
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sandraqu	Hello. Do any of WebGUI have a WebObject that creates a book format with numbered chapters and subchapters? Else, is there a way to dynamically add numbers?	19:53
@preaction	http://webgui.org/user_guides <- we've used the wiki to do it, but the organization is all manual	19:54
@preaction	you could use a Collaboration and/or a Message Board depending on how deep you want to go	19:54
@preaction	Folders and Articles would work as well, using a custom template to number the items	19:55
@preaction	but unfortunately, nothing super simple	19:55
@preaction	oh, Thingy could do it as well, but getting a nicely-formatted result for the visitors might be a bit tricky	19:56
sandraqu	Thank you. Let me try another angle.	19:56
@preaction	i'd probably go with Folders and Articles myself	19:56
@preaction	i wanted to make a nice docbook-oriented system for webgui, but time and time and time is time and time	19:57
sandraqu	I know I can add custom fields. Can I add a custom field to the Editing window and put a number there... call the number in the URL?	19:57
buu	Hrm.	19:58
@preaction	not if i think i know what you're saying: use a custom field for "Chapter/Subchapter" like "1.1.17", and then have the URL automatically use that number?	19:58
sandraqu	Is my question clearly worded?	19:58
buu	What's the relation between /data/webugi/www and /data/webgui/domains/domain.com/public	19:58
sandraqu	@preaction, yes	19:58
sandraqu	via a variable that is	19:59
@preaction	buu: /data/webgui/www/extras is shared between all sites. /data/webgui/www/uploads is the base that gets copied to /data/domains/www.domain.com/public/uploads	19:59
@preaction	then www.domain.com/public/uploads is used to upload files to that site	19:59
buu	preaction: Well I just noticed the captcha system was creating files in /data/webgui/www/uploads/temp	20:00
@preaction	sandraqu: no, but webgui will build a URL based on the title or menu title if one is not supplied	20:00
@preaction	buu: hmm... you should make sure your uploadsPath in the config file is set to the /data/domains/.../public/uploads directory	20:00
buu	Ohh	20:01
buu	You're right, thanks.	20:01
sandraqu	Is there a way to add hidden field values into a page that i could search for? hidden tags?	20:03
sandraqu	as a way to incorporate the chapter number, and be able to search for it.	20:05
@preaction	sandraqu: yes, you could add it to the "keywords" field on the metadata tab, or you could put it in the title or synopsis fields, all will get added to the search index	20:05
sandraqu	:) grand.	20:05
sandraqu	thank you.	20:09
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buu	Hrm.	20:18
buu	preaction: Can I somehow insert a nav element into a forum/messageboard?	20:18
@preaction	the Redirect asset is pretty good for simply adding nav elements in whatever place you want	20:19
buu	My mind is blown	20:19
@preaction	otherwise, you'll probably have to look at the Navigation's settings on how it looks up what assets to include	20:19
@preaction	it gets pretty hairy pretty quickly, not all assets want to be in nav, nav has to fetch and instance the asset which takes time and can affect page responsiveness, etc...	20:20
buu	preaction: Well I mean, when I'm looking at an individual forum there's no breadcrumb	20:21
buu	Like forums > board > thread	20:21
@preaction	oh, make your breadcrumb nav Show Hidden Pages	20:21
buu	Er, do I have a br..	20:21
@preaction	unless you don't have one yet, then you'll need to make a new nav. the Designer's guide probably has more information about how to build navs	20:22
@preaction	as it's complex, and CMs never have to really do it	20:22
buu	I'll go read that	20:22
buu	heh	20:22
@preaction	it's something like "Start Point: Relative to Root, +1", "Include: Ancestors, Self", Template: Breadcrumb	20:22
@preaction	and that reminds me of just how long it's been since i've actually USED a webgui site, much less built one. too busy in the code	20:23
+perlDreamer	yeah, it's shocking sometimes isn't it?	20:24
buu	Hah	20:25
buu	preaction: Well I mean, I've got a top-nav, at the top..	20:25
* buu messes		20:25
+perlDreamer	buu, by default, Posts and Threads are hidden from navigations	20:26
+perlDreamer	otherwise, think what a top-level dropdown would look like!	20:26
+perlDreamer	so, just enable it in your crumb and all will be well	20:26
+perlDreamer	you can see an example of that in the WebGUI forums on webgui.org	20:26
buu	perlDreamer: Well, I created a crumb type nav, I think	20:28
buu	But how do I get it to show up someplace?	20:28
+perlDreamer	You use an AssetProxy macro to drop it into a style template	20:28
+perlDreamer	you have the Collaboration System use that style template	20:29
buu	So do I need to edit the template or can I do that from the gui?	20:29
+perlDreamer	The recommended way to edit the style template is through the GUI	20:31
CIA-71	webgui: Paul Driver master * r7c9d086 / t/Asset/Wobject/StoryTopic.t : Tests for the new topic template variable - http://bit.ly/hqmBaD	20:48
@preaction	okay, so the matrix memory problem is probably the view method of a MatrixListing, but I can't see anything in there that looks completely insane except for building both the form and the table then only using one of them	20:50
@preaction	that's not 150M, and i can reliably get the process to use 150M more by viewing any matrix listing	20:51
+perlDreamer	is it building tons of assets in memory?	20:51
@preaction	nope, no assets at all. just form fields and storage locations	20:51
+perlDreamer	that doesn't make any sense at all	20:52
@preaction	well, it gets its parent, but no other ma... maybe the matrix is the hog	20:52
+perlDreamer	if it was the matrix, wouldn't it happen on every page view?	20:53
@preaction	nope. matrix can do everything it wants to without tanking memory	20:53
@preaction	yeah, i was just verifying, not assuming ;)	20:53
@preaction	when your assumptions get proven wrong as often as mine, you learn to never assume	20:53
@preaction	and there's another one. matrixlisting view, 150M jump... it doesn't seem to matter WHICH listing is being viewed, so it's at least consistent	20:54
+perlDreamer	check the comments	20:55
+perlDreamer	maybe somebody dumped 150M of comment spam into it	20:55
@preaction	nope, comments are pretty standard	20:55
@preaction	looks like i'm pulling a copy of cmsmatrix and reproducing locally... drat...	20:56
+perlDreamer	watch, cmsmatrix won't be the problem	20:57
@preaction	no, it is. i've been watching via server-status and top	20:57
@preaction	after top reports a memory jump, server-status reports the last request for that PID as a matrix request	20:57
@preaction	remind me to write a blog post about this debugging process ;)	20:58
+perlDreamer	I will	20:58
@preaction	in fact i'll start keeping notes right now, if at least for internal uses	20:59
+perlDreamer	can you use something like classLoadTest and have it print out Memory used and asset size for each asset in addition to load times?	21:03
@preaction	as of right now, no	21:04
@preaction	but that would be awesome	21:04
@preaction	let me drag up my old perl memory debugging informationses	21:04
+perlDreamer	when do URLs have to be encoded?	21:04
@preaction	before display to the user, so either in the template or in the template vars	21:05
@preaction	i'd say in the vars. you're more likely to need to encode URLs than you would decode to do something fancy	21:05
+perlDreamer	that makes this <a href="url">url</a> kind of difficult though	21:06
+perlDreamer	and I've seen constructs like that in our templates	21:06
@preaction	heh. yeah that would be a problem...	21:06
@preaction	but that'd be a problem either way	21:06
+perlDreamer	if it's unencoded, then you do <a href="<tmpl_var url ESCAPE="URL">"><tmpl_var url></a>	21:07
@preaction	right, but then you need to ... i guess for MOST urls, escaping isn't a problem. the browser can DTRT unless it's an HTML special char in there like > or "	21:08
+perlDreamer	yeah	21:08
@preaction	so for our default template set, we can remember to ESCAPE="URL", but for custom templates, doesn't matter if the designer remembers until there's a problem	21:09
@preaction	why is url being used as a link in this instance? no title or menu title to go on?	21:09
* perlDreamer doesn't remember		21:09
@preaction	that'd be ideal, no urls as links. most browsers have ways to select a url and right-click to go to the page	21:10
+perlDreamer	I hate URI	21:23
+perlDreamer	I hate UTF-8	21:23
+perlDreamer	I hate Session/Url.pm	21:23
@preaction	no, tell us what you really think	21:23
+perlDreamer	I like that Auburn won :)	21:24
@preaction	and memory settings seem completely different on OS X kernel... don't know why i didn't expect that...	21:28
@scrottie	did someone say memory? feed the output of Devel::Gladiator to Devel::Size and sort that.	21:29
@preaction	yeah, i'm looking at Devel::Arena. i just need Total Memory Usage Before, and After	21:29
@scrottie	Devel::LeakTrace?	21:32
@scrottie	that installs custom ops that track where in the program memory was allocated, helping you find leaks even if the data moves around.	21:32
@preaction	i don't think they're leaks, i think it's actually being used correctly, it's just too much	21:32
@scrottie	right, but same principles apply.	21:33
@preaction	i suppose. i'll build this stuff into classLoadTest.pl and see what i can see see see	21:33
@scrottie	if it were a leak, you'd have (probably) lots of small scalars all created in the same place. in this case, you might have a few large scalars.	21:33
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@preaction	so if i'm correct, Devel::Size/Devel::Gladiator will give me the actual size of the stuff being used, not the amount allocated that appears in RES in top, right?	21:38
@preaction	well, i suppose i could TIAS	21:39
+perlDreamer	TIAS?	21:39
+perlDreamer	oh yaeh	21:39
+perlDreamer	gotcha	21:39
@scrottie	"actual size" is the amount of water displaced by your DIMM when you put it in a measuring cup.	21:40
@scrottie	Devel::Size reports how much was requested from the memory allocator.	21:40
@preaction	is that while it's powered and used? do electrons displace volumes of water?	21:40
@scrottie	that doesn't include waste as a result of quick-fit over best-fit optimizations in the allocator, fragmentation, and so on.	21:41
@scrottie	run enough electrons through water and you get oxygen and hydrogen =)	21:41
@preaction	ooh, and then BOOMs! i like it	21:41
@scrottie	something like for(1..1_000_000_000) { push @a, 1; pop @a; } will gobble up bunches of memory. Devel::Size reports this correctly.	21:43
+perlDreamer	electrons have measurable volume	21:46
+perlDreamer	it's just that the little buggers are so repulsive that you can't get them close enough together to measure lots of them	21:47
* perlDreamer goes to lunch		21:49
@preaction	okay, i am now far over my head: keeping the same session open for every request in classLoadTest caused memory numbers to go up up up until they'd reset -200k and start over, so i decided to do all the individual work of one test in a forked child	22:15
@preaction	which gives me the results i expect, but that's a shitty method: do something until you get the results you expect? wtf am i? an intelligent-design advocate?	22:15
@preaction	https://gist.github.com/775041 <- anyone have some time to check this out and see if i'm wacked in the noggin?	22:16
@preaction	total_size( walk_arena ); segfaulted every time, probably because i keep getting a warning about Attempt to free unreferenced scalar: ... at Log::Log4perl::Logger.pm line 92	22:17
@scrottie	yeah, you can't copy anything you find in the arena.	22:18
@scrottie	my $x = is right out.	22:18
@scrottie	it's fickle.	22:18
@scrottie	http://slowass.net/~scott/tmp/membitch.pl.txt # example	22:19
@scrottie	esp you want to skip things with REIFY, without REAL, that are SPECIAL	22:21
@scrottie	for your purposes, you want to skip references, too.	22:22
@scrottie	er, wait. we're talking about different things.	22:23
@scrottie	I saw segfault and blamed Gladiator.	22:23
@preaction	yeah, most likely it's Devel::Size complaining	22:24
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@scrottie	hrm. yeah. Devel::Size isn't going to pinpoint where the memory is going in this case anyway...	22:26
@scrottie	it'll just confirm that your session is really big, or isn't.	22:26
@scrottie	still, that should be the most stable of the lot.	22:26
@scrottie	why not Devel::LeakTrace?	22:26
@preaction	oh, now that i fork it would do what i wanted at child END	22:27
@scrottie	anyway, that's probably a perl core bug.	22:27
@preaction	Devel::LeakTrace doesn't detect i have a glib installed, because OS X doesn't have glib-config. let's see if macports's glib2 will work	22:28
@scrottie	hrm. right.	22:29
@scrottie	Devel::Leak might be easier.	22:29
@scrottie	and it lets you set your low water mark and then check it at will.	22:29
@preaction	er.. make that glib1	22:29
@preaction	ooh, that sounds promising	22:29
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@preaction	new hotness: spectre binds to 127/32, but appears to come from a random IP attached to eth0. one of 6 IPs. which are not defined by a single CIDR	22:58
Haarg	usually it would come from whatever ip corresponds to the sitename, but if sitename resolves to 127.0.0.1 it should always come from the loopback	23:04
@preaction	yeah, i added all the hostnames to /etc/hosts resolved to 127.0.0.1, no change	23:05
@preaction	i should probably check resolv.conf	23:05
+perlDreamer	how's the memory thing?	23:08
@preaction	dunno, this is phone support	23:08
@preaction	host.conf says hosts,bind, so it checks /etc/hosts first	23:08
@scrottie	ignorant question. if I have a bunch of articles in a folder or whatever other sort of container, and each has different permissions for who can view it, is there an easy way to include links of whichever of them the current user can see onto another page?	23:10
@preaction	a navigation would do it	23:10
@preaction	navs check permissions, unless you tell them not to	23:11
@scrottie	waiter, one navigation! with extra caramel sause!	23:11
@scrottie	I swear I'll read the Content Manager's Guide one day soon.	23:11
* perlDreamer copies that down for future reference/blackmailing		23:12
buu	So do 'page layouts' automatically include all their children?	23:15
buu	Unless you hide them..	23:16
@preaction	right	23:17
buu	Hrm	23:19
buu	"You're attempting to remove a vital component of the WebGUI system. If you were allowed to continue WebGUI may cease to function." !	23:19
+perlDreamer	bad buu!	23:20
buu	Why is /home so vital?	23:20
+perlDreamer	put that asset back where you found it	23:20
+perlDreamer	In the settings, it's the Default Asset	23:20
buu	You mean the one that appears if you go to / ?	23:20
@preaction	yeah	23:21
@preaction	you cant' remove it until you change the Default Page to something else	23:21
buu	Ah	23:21
@preaction	same with the Not Found Page	23:21
buu	preaction: It's kind of annoying because everything goes under /home and home is one of those pesky things that just displays a giant list of everything in it	23:22
buu	I guess uh	23:22
@preaction	you could organize the site into subsections	23:22
@scrottie	put something else under /home. the URL doesn't have to bare a resemblence to the asset heirarchy.	23:22
buu	Yeah...	23:23
buu	Interesting	23:24
buu	preaction: So I have the top-nav configured to do "descendents under specific url: /home" but the first link in the nav is a button that says "Home" that links to /	23:25
buu	Wait	23:25
buu	I take it back =]	23:26
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+perlDreamer	hey tavisto!	23:27
@tavisto	hey perldreamer	23:36
* perlDreamer has been drooling over a Verizon iPhone		23:37
@tavisto	CDMA only. junk	23:37
+perlDreamer	if I can afford to go overseas, I'll buy another one :)	23:37
@tavisto	no, meaning slow 3g until you have to buy a new LTE phone	23:38
+perlDreamer	ah, in that case, I'll wait until the 4G comes out	23:38
+perlDreamer	or, I'll get an android	23:38
@tavisto	yeah it's unfortunate. If they had thought ahead and not been greedy (but it's apple) they could have put in a SIM card slot and LTE uses them	23:39
@tavisto	making it possible to be upgradeable	23:39
@scrottie	it would still need the newer, more expensive radio.	23:42
+perlDreamer	radios are small	23:44
@scrottie	and covered by crazy numbers of patents.	23:45
@tavisto	yeah, that goes without saying :)	23:49
--- Day changed Wed Jan 12 2011
buu	How fast is cdma?	00:01
sbaur	the non-simultaneous voice and data is the deal breaker for me...	00:02
@tavisto	depends on your location/signal strength. Most people see 750k-1.5mb	00:02
@tavisto	well beyond that.. there's no upgrade path from cdma. You are stuck until you get LTE service. However with AT&T there is HSPA 7.2 and then HSPA+ which is capable of 14mb 3G service	00:03
@tavisto	then of course LTE once they deploy it	00:03
Haarg	cdma is shitty but there are lots of areas around here where at&t has no coverage at all	00:08
Haarg	so until that changes verizon or us cellular are pretty much the only options for me	00:09
@tavisto	yep and that's the issue with AT&T they don't have as as much 3G coverage. However, that's been changing pretty quickly.. even here in Michigan. My parents had the same problem and had no real broadband internet options.. So I got them a mifi2200 on verizon and they get around 2Mb consistently.. A close tower with low demand obviously. I was impressed	00:11
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I think I'm going to punt on the idea of making a "url_for" like method for Session/Url	00:27
+perlDreamer	I either get UTF-8 url-encoded when I don't want it	00:27
+perlDreamer	or I get unsafe characters leaking through	00:27
Haarg	can you review the problem quick?	00:29
+perlDreamer	If the base method is used from Plack::Request, it returns a URI object	00:29
+perlDreamer	if you shove UTF-8 into that, it url-encodes it by default	00:29
+perlDreamer	no simple way to turn it off	00:30
+perlDreamer	so, that leaves you the option of url-decoding the output of $uri->path	00:30
+perlDreamer	however, gateway takes an optional pageUrl argument which can contain unsafe characters	00:30
+perlDreamer	that you don't want decoded	00:30
+perlDreamer	while encoding will take a list of characters for encoding	00:31
+perlDreamer	I can't get to the one inside Plack::Request	00:31
+perlDreamer	and decoding (unescaping) does them all	00:31
Haarg	is it just utf8 characters that you want unencoded?	00:32
+perlDreamer	that's the current thing that's causing tests to fail.	00:32
+perlDreamer	however, I'm finding that everything I try breaks some other test downline that also does UTF-8 testing with URLs	00:32
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Haarg	well, a few thoughts. leaving utf8 stuff unencoded should probably work, but could cause problems with old browsers. HTML::Template can't do the encoding.	00:37
Haarg	places where people want to display the url in unencoded form are probably out of luck unless there are separate variables for that.	00:38
+perlDreamer	We don't encode UTF-8 currently	00:38
Haarg	have you tried the ->as_iri method on the URIs?	00:39
+perlDreamer	I believe that gives you the entire uri, instead of only the path	00:39
Haarg	probably yes	00:40
+perlDreamer	URI is a funny class	00:40
+perlDreamer	it's a blessed scalar	00:40
+perlDreamer	which is the URL	00:40
+perlDreamer	anytime you do an operation on a part, it breaks it down with a regex, does the operation, the reassembles	00:40
+perlDreamer	consequently you can't override or subclass a method without having to rewrite the whole thing	00:42
Haarg	why is that?	00:42
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+perlDreamer	well, suppose I wanted to override path to not encode its incoming arguments	00:42
scrottie0	stupid aqua-xchat.	00:43
+perlDreamer	I have to duplicate the internal, gnarly regex for breaking the string into parts	00:43
+perlDreamer	which doesn't sound like fun for maintenance	00:43
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Haarg	i'd probably need to see an example of what you are trying to do and how it is failing to help much. even if doing everything through URI doesn't work it shouldn't be hard to make something that accomplishes roughly the same as uri_for	00:47
+perlDreamer	that's what I had earlier, except you didn't like it?	00:47
+perlDreamer	it avoided using URI completely	00:48
Haarg	not quite	00:48
Haarg	let me see if i can find the conversation.	00:48
+perlDreamer	instead of calling make_urlmap_work, it called $session->request->base->path	00:49
+perlDreamer	and then appended the pageUrl to it	00:49
+perlDreamer	that way, that part of it is never escaped/unescaped or handled by URI	00:50
Haarg	well, there's basically two parts to this. first is getting the requested url.	00:53
Haarg	if you just use $request->path, does that cause any problems?	00:54
+perlDreamer	that's what it does now	00:55
+perlDreamer	no problems	00:55
Haarg	then, for generating urls, make_urlmap_work seems like shouldn't be needed	00:59
Haarg	my first thought is to try to use URI for url manipulation, but if that isn't going to work i don't see a problem with doing it ourselves.	01:03
+perlDreamer	I'll revert back to what I had earlier. Then maybe you could review it again and look for holes	01:04
Haarg	sorry for throwing things out there without explaining more. if there's ever stuff like that isn't clear feel free to ignore me. :)	01:05
+perlDreamer	I think you actually did a pretty good job of explaining, just stuck between WebGUI historical behavior and URI behavior	01:08
+perlDreamer	but yeah, the sitename stuff should have been a separate ticket	01:08
* perlDreamer is off to pick up kids from school, more URLing later today		01:37
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buu	Man	03:25
buu	This is really cool	03:26
buu	Hey, random question since I haven't gotten to it in my readings yet, but is there a way to disable to "Your post has been submitted, please click here to go back to the website" type pages, especially for forums?	03:47
@scrottie	sure. monkey-patch www_editSave.	03:50
@scrottie	or subclass assets.	03:51
@scrottie	but no! wait, there's a better offer!	03:51
buu	Why scrottie, what's behind door number 3?!	03:53
@scrottie	pass proceed=viewParent or goBackToPage to editParent or else the name of a www_ method (without the www_ bit on it) and it'll do that... er, but the stock www_editSave doesn't do that message.	03:53
@scrottie	which asset are you using?	03:53
buu	Um. Collaboration system?	03:53
@scrottie	looks like Story.pm, Post.pm, WikiPage do this...	03:54
@scrottie	and Photo.pm	03:54
buu	"Your post has been received and is being processed so it can be added to the site. Please be patient."	03:55
buu	Is that Post.pm?	03:55
@scrottie	use WebGUI::Asset::Post; WebGUI::Asset::Post::www_showConformiation = WebGUI::Asset::Post::www_view; ... in /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.custom	03:56
@scrottie	nonono. no raw perl in preload.custom. hrm.	03:56
@scrottie	i18n/English/Asset_Post.pm has that message, and that's the i18n for Post.pm, so looks like it.	03:57
@scrottie	and it looks like that's used form www_showConfirmation.	03:57
@scrottie	you could probably copy and edit a template and then tell that instance of that asset to use that template instead, and have the template do something else other than func=showConfirmation	03:58
@preaction	i think www_editSave specifically goes to showConfirmation	03:59
@scrottie	yeah. edit sets an isSubscribedToCs (I have no idea) template variable that contains a hidden form of proceed=showConfirmation.	03:59
buu	Oh that's icky	03:59
buu	Link to webgui page?	04:00
@scrottie	so edit the template, drop use of isSubscribedToCs and replace it with <input type="hidden" name="proceed" value="view">	04:00
@preaction	yeah, because anything in proceed= that doesn't match a set of predefined vars is guessed is a www_* method	04:00
buu	scrottie: That is quite scary.	04:00
@scrottie	the edit form tells the thing what to show the user.	04:00
@scrottie	I eat scarier things on my cheerios.	04:01
@scrottie	oh, I misread this. isSubcribedToCs is something different. form.header is the proceed hidden form.	04:02
@scrottie	someone used tabs. indenting fooled me.	04:02
@scrottie	I am stupid enough that I am routinely duped by 7 bit characters.	04:03
buu	scrottie: So essentially I would just have the template auto-redirect to the page instead of showing a form?	04:03
@scrottie	hmm? I don't think so. The edit form has a hidden field that tells WebGUI what to show the user after the form submits.	04:03
buu	Also what's with /data, why not /usr or /usr/local or something	04:03
@scrottie	the form still goes to www_editSave, but then www_editSave kicks the user somewhere else.	04:04
buu	scrottie: Ohhh	04:04
buu	scrottie: So I pass a different value to editSave which says 'instead of showing confirm, go here'	04:04
@scrottie	"historic reasons". ie, it's JT Smith's fault.	04:04
@scrottie	right.	04:04
buu	And on a similar train of thought, if I wanted to modify what buttons my 'rich text editor' shows I assume there's just a template for that someplace I mess with?	04:05
@scrottie	good question.	04:05
@scrottie	maybe Doug can answer it.	04:05
@preaction	the Rich Editor configuration is an asset, actually. in Settings, under UI, there are two rich editor settings	04:05
buu	Right	04:06
@preaction	Collaboration and some other user-facing edit forms have the same kind of settings	04:06
@preaction	but it's a Rich Edit asset that does the configurating	04:06
@scrottie	if you have shell on the machine hosting this, get the wgd utilility. you can wgd edit <url\|assetId> and it'll fire up $EDITOR on the thing.	04:06
buu	!	04:06
buu	Nice!	04:06
@scrottie	haarg.org/wgd I think it is	04:06
@preaction	yeah, WGDev on github	04:06
@preaction	i think it's on cpan too	04:06
buu	scrottie: I spent about a month writing something fairly similar to webgui once	04:06
buu	And that was the first thing I wrote	04:06
Haarg	not on cpan	04:06
@scrottie	buu: I think a lot of people have, and I think that makes it hard for us to look at other people's versions. I had a CMS called "webwanker" and then a library called "TransientBaby". the latter was functional rather than OO. the former was... well, it's a whole story.	04:08
@scrottie	I should stop and look at EverythingEngine one of these days too.	04:08
buu	Heh, I've been wanting to rewrite the everythingengine ever since I first saw chromatic's(?) post about profiling perlmonks and how an average page was using like 200 sql queries	04:08
@scrottie	heh.	04:09
@scrottie	ahem.	04:09
buu	scrottie: I've spent the last couple of weeks messing with plone actually	04:09
buu	I like the design, but doing anything requires editing like 5 different xml files	04:09
buu	It's literally mind blowing	04:09
@scrottie	mindblowing good or mindblowing bad?	04:10
@scrottie	someone was ranting to me about Zope once, and how it exposes everything via RPC. that inspired me to write Acme::RPC.	04:10
@scrottie	when Doug isn't looking, I'm doing to add that to WebGUI.	04:10
@preaction	this doesn't look like a bad idea at all	04:11
buu	scrottie: bad	04:11
@scrottie	it's a TERRIBLE idea!	04:11
buu	Haha, I meant plone	04:11
buu	But yes, your world of Acme is also scary	04:11
buu	preaction: Anyway I'm looking at settings > ui > rich text editor	04:12
buu	But I don't see anyway to actually touch that asset	04:12
buu	Unless you meant just via asset manager..	04:12
buu	Also why doesn't the asset manager have a search =[	04:13
@scrottie	I gave Haarg a patch for wgd to dump everything in a pretty ASCII tree view but I'm not sure what came of that.	04:13
@preaction	buu: it does, look in upper-right above table	04:14
buu	OH	04:14
buu	That's too eas	04:14
buu	y	04:14
buu	preaction: You know what would be really useful? Someway to see an asset's parent from inside the asset edit page	04:14
@scrottie	buu, you should check out WebGUI8 from github and run that instead.	04:15
buu	Oh, should I?	04:15
buu	Will it explode and make fairies come out my nose?	04:15
@scrottie	I'm wagering a guess there. Perhaps you actually do want something more stable.	04:15
@scrottie	Yes.	04:15
Haarg	i think i was being overly purist about things and also lazy and didn't include it. i should look for that again and try to put in.	04:15
@preaction	oh jeez, just kill him too why don't you?	04:16
buu	Well, stability isn't that high on my list of attributes..	04:16
buu	scrottie: Give me a pitch, why do I want this webgui8 instead? =]	04:17
@preaction	8 isn't quite... usably stable	04:17
buu	I do actually need to use it at some point	04:17
@scrottie	it hasn't been around long enough for us to start hating it yet?	04:17
buu	-_-	04:17
buu	haha	04:17
@preaction	pfft, speak for yourself :p	04:18
@scrottie	because you're more likely than the average user to be annoyed by the same thing we were annoyed at and Doug fixed.	04:18
buu	I'll buy that	04:18
@scrottie	and backwards compat isn't a concern for you.	04:18
buu	But my nose can't handle that many more fairies	04:19
@scrottie	and you'll have better odds at getting things to work that get hung up for some reason.	04:19
@scrottie	you might not want to snort this dust then.	04:19
buu	Where's the link anyway?	04:19
@scrottie	thought I'd put that out there. also, it would be pretty cool to have you submitting fixes for WebGUI8. selfish motive.	04:19
@scrottie	github.com/plainblack/WebGUI, WebGUI8 branch	04:19
buu	And did anyone answer my question about /data/	04:20
@scrottie	yes. "historic reasons. IE, JT's fault"	04:20
buu	Ohh	04:21
buu	Didn't realize what that was in response to	04:21
buu	Uh oh, I'm entering the land of plack.	04:28
buu	Any chance I can run WG8 against my existing test database?	04:34
@scrottie	it should go. WG8's database should be the same as a recent 7.x	04:35
buu	Oh. Cool.	04:35
buu	scrottie: Have you seen" http://search.cpan.org/~sakoht/UR-v0.19/lib/UR/Manual/Overview.pod	04:36
@preaction	actually 8.0 requires a pretty extensive upgrade, but there's an upgrade script	04:37
@scrottie	" it is possible to query for an object by specifying the class and the matching characteristics" ... that sounds familiar.	04:38
@scrottie	there's a lot of talk in here about how large parts of WebGUI could be replaced by even larger parts from else where.	04:38
@scrottie	nope, haven't seen that.	04:38
@scrottie	right. upgrade scripts. wgd is handy there too.	04:38
buu	I don't know much about Ur but noticed the upload and it seemed surprisingly sane and coherent	04:43
@preaction	huh, it does look interesting	04:47
@preaction	not sure what UR::Command is though	04:50
@scrottie	I'd like to eventually see web apps getting away from using the database as essentially their RAM.	04:51
@scrottie	and, for that matter, other message passing interfaces. that's so 1970.	04:52
* scrottie sighs		04:52
+perlDreamer	scrottie, it's only going to get worse	04:55
+perlDreamer	the next step is to use non-relational databases	04:55
@scrottie	one of the Ruby VMs knows how to transparently share objects between processes.	04:55
@scrottie	perlDreamer, worst of both worlds! brilliant!	04:55
+perlDreamer	look at it this way	04:56
+perlDreamer	You'll never have to complain about MySQL again!	04:56
@preaction	you'll welcome mysql compared to some of those things :p	04:56
buu	hey now, I am a devout prophet of the church of the mongodb	04:58
+perlDreamer	is mongodb open source?	05:00
buu	yes	06:56
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:46
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+bartjol	bopbop: I got you mail, I hope to remember my laptop tomorrow, the I can send you the file/files	17:04
@bopbop	great - thanks bartjol	17:05
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+perlDreamer	dang it, is skype all jacked up again?	17:54
@preaction	maybe? anything is possible	17:54
+bartjol	well, that's ok, I don't use skype	17:56
+perlDreamer	you have to use skype, it's the only way to see video of Emma and Huub	17:56
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+bartjol	well, I think when I ask Koen he'll show me	18:04
+perlDreamer	you have yet another advantage over me	18:11
+bartjol	eeh, proximity to Koen?	18:16
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+perlDreamer	not only that, but it's probably much easier to get stroopwaffeln	18:26
sbaur	sounds yummy	18:31
+bartjol	stroopwafels	18:32
+bartjol	but they are good	18:32
+perlDreamer	I keep using german pluralization	18:32
+bartjol	yeah, well we were almost german	18:32
sbaur	then you thought better of it :-)	18:32
+bartjol	it wasn't my decision, I like beer and bratwurst	18:33
+perlDreamer	german or dutch?	18:34
+bartjol	german	18:35
+perlDreamer	is your house finished now, bartjol?	18:37
+bartjol	no, not yet	18:37
CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rfd9c192 / lib/WebGUI/Form/Codearea.pm : form headTags only exists in 7.10 and higher. - http://bit.ly/gSItpG	18:37
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@preaction	Haarg: persuant to our conversation last friday about the php float bug: http://blog.andreas.org/display?id=9	19:41
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@preaction	continuing my adventure from yesterday, the arena doubles in quantity after calling www_view on matrix listing. comparing the actual contents of the arena is proving slow. there's 1,000,000 records to compare against 500,000. i think maybe once i find a match in one, i should remove it...	20:25
+perlDreamer	it builds lists of MatrixListings	20:27
+perlDreamer	nm, limit => 1	20:28
@preaction	layout has the same increase, so it has to be the contents...	20:29
+perlDreamer	could it be the gnarly SQL?	20:29
@preaction	no, but i could think of some optimizations i could make	20:31
@preaction	i just don't want to do anything until i can test what my optimizations DO	20:31
@preaction	http://zrusin.blogspot.com/2007/09/git-cheat-sheet.html <- ooh prutty	20:32
+perlDreamer	very nice!	20:34
+perlDreamer	can we put it on TGC and get hardcopy?	20:34
@preaction	probably, it is CC	20:34
+perlDreamer	it's 3 years old!	20:35
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scrottie0	git: The Board Game! Amaze your friends with conflicts! Surprise everyone with force pushes! Revert patches people have edited! Go for the show stopping three-way-merge!	21:25
+perlDreamer	You rolled a 5, you will have to rebase your commit and manually merge :(	21:30
@preaction	i'm trying to track down a memory issue. how can i get a unique ID for an object? some objects overload stringification, others overload + so I can't do 0+$obj to get the memory location.	21:33
scrottie0	B. my $sv = B::svref_2object($i);	21:34
@preaction	danke	21:34
scrottie0	$$sv should be the memory address of the thing then.	21:34
scrottie0	no problem. always eager for a chance to lure people into the dark corners of Perl's VM where they can be beaten and molested.	21:35
@preaction	even though a stringification run seems to have spit out an even worse glut of information, difficult to decipher...	21:35
+perlDreamer	what about running it through the debugger and watch memory concurrently?	21:35
+perlDreamer	you could write a small test to manually instance the right asset from the db	21:35
@preaction	i mean, do i need to care how many undef SVs are in there? or how deep the references to undef are?	21:35
@preaction	ah, i could compile the entire list and let Data::Dumper sort out the duplications	21:37
@preaction	and say whatever you will about perl, hash lookups are fast	21:40
@preaction	1 million, 2 seconds	21:40
scrottie0	you can bless stashes into themselves and populate them with closures.	21:41
@preaction	hooray for logging taking the place of debugging. i now have a million lines of logfile to look through to find out why something failed...	22:36
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@preaction	and this logfile has random numbers with no labels. wonder what they mean...	22:52
@preaction	on to spectre issue: the lo interface is getting all the spectre traffic, but webgui still thinks spectre is coming from an IP on eth0. how does that work?	23:17
@preaction	doing wget sitename/?op=spectreGetSiteData shows wget connecting to 127.0.0.1 and returns the correct data, no errors	23:20
@preaction	netstat -nl shows spectre is bound to 127.0.0.1, but it shows apache is bound to [::]:80, does that include all ipv4 addresses? does that include 127.0.0.1?	23:23
scrottie0	you can't make connections from [::]:80. that's listening, I'm sure... listening on all IPs.	23:24
scrottie0	spectre does incoming and outgoing... it's perfectly possible for it to be listening on 127.0.0.1:whatever but then make outgoing connections from another IP.	23:24
@preaction	right, listening, i just remember a freebsd problem where [::] did not include 0.0.0.0	23:24
scrottie0	what does ifconfig for lo0 look like?	23:25
@preaction	but why only on this system?	23:25
@preaction	full ifconfig: https://gist.github.com/776914	23:26
scrottie0	dunno. if0 not configured or configured strange, or has a metric or ...	23:26
scrottie0	RX bytes:2604272447 (2.4 GiB) TX bytes:2604272447 (2.4 GiB) # well, it is being used...	23:26
scrottie0	iptables doing something funky...?	23:27
scrottie0	spectre is trying to contact 127.0.0.1:80, right?	23:27
@preaction	it's trying www.example.com:8081	23:28
scrottie0	127.0.0.1 isn't routable... you can't connect to a real IP address from it. so the thing will try to use a real IP address.	23:28
scrottie0	127/8 is only useful for talking to 127/8 on.	23:29
@preaction	but only if that lookup gives a real IP. the lookup gives 127.0.0.1	23:29
scrottie0	oh. split horizon? or hosts?	23:29
@preaction	hosts	23:29
@preaction	side-note: changing the config file, without restarting the server, removes spectre's ability to talk to the server	23:30
@preaction	but configs are cached in memory for the duration of the process	23:30
scrottie0	hrm. www.whatever.com generally should't map to 127.0.0.1... I think that's considered bad.	23:30
scrottie0	shouldn't	23:30
+perlDreamer	on the server, it's a very good idea	23:31
scrottie0	maybe /etc/nsswitch.conf is telling it to resolve first, try hosts.txt second.	23:31
scrottie0	but it confuses certain nntp clients!	23:31
@preaction	nope, hosts is first, bind second in nsswitch.conf	23:31
+perlDreamer	since that way it won't reach out through firewalls and proxies to get back in touch with itself	23:31
* perlDreamer stops quibitzing and goes to pick up the kids		23:31
scrottie0	... like it is trying to do now.	23:31
@preaction	but only when spectre is doing it, not wget simulating what spectre does	23:32
scrottie0	I'd have to look at code... and put debug statements into code...	23:32
@preaction	god that's even weirder. config is being reloaded automatically, no restart required.	23:33
@preaction	oh well, it's working, i've got scripts that will add the right subnets, and i can't debug this deeply as i already wasted two days on these little issues.	23:34
scrottie0	oh, spectre uses POE. I keep forgetting that fact.	23:34
scrottie0	I was looking for a connect() call.	23:34
scrottie0	blame POE.	23:34
@preaction	sounds good to me	23:35
@preaction	i don't mind bad behavior as long as it's predictably bad...	23:35
@preaction	just give me predictably bad, i don't ask for much	23:35
scrottie0	hrm. ip travels pretty sanely from the config file, to create_ikc_client into POE::Component::IKC::ClientLite into connect() in there to IO::Socket::INET	23:38
scrottie0	no point me inserting debug statements on my non-problematic system.	23:44
@preaction	i'd put money on it being some feature of the xen-ified kernel	23:53
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scrottie0	ooooooh.	23:59
--- Day changed Thu Jan 13 2011
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andyiomoon	perlDreamer - are you about?	00:34
scrottie0	"* perlDreamer stops quibitzing and goes to pick up the kids"	00:35
scrottie0	maybe an hour ago? no timestamps here.	00:35
andyiomoon	thanks Scott... perlDreamer, when you get back can you pop into our Skype conversation re Swinburne RCT work... thanks mate	00:38
SDuensin	Off topic, but is anyone here a BASH expert?	00:40
+perlDreamer	preaction is very bashy	00:40
+perlDreamer	but just ask, SD	00:41
+perlDreamer	maybe one of us amateurs can help	00:41
SDuensin	Why does this script stop iterating through files and directories when it runs 'vcs-1.12.2.bash' (also a BASH script)? http://pastebin.com/kTNTQG9y If I comment out that line, it echos as expected.	00:41
+perlDreamer	vcs-1.12.2.bash never returns	00:42
+perlDreamer	aka stops executing	00:42
SDuensin	Why does it replace my current bash process?	00:42
SDuensin	I've tried pre-pending the line with "bash " as well as making it a ( subprocess ) with no luck.	00:42
+perlDreamer	you invoked it when you ran it	00:42
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SDuensin	So calling a bash script from another bash script is going to terminate the caller?	00:43
+perlDreamer	no, it starts a child process	00:44
SDuensin	Right.	00:44
scrottie0	does your bash process vanish from ps? or can you just not get back to it?	00:46
scrottie0	echo $$; ./annoying_command (in another window, ps -ax and look for whatever pid)	00:46
SDuensin	Let me try and explain what it's doing...	00:47
SDuensin	Say I have a folder full of other folders named A, B, C...	00:47
SDuensin	In each of those are videos named 1, 2, 3...	00:47
SDuensin	If I run my script against the parent, it'll create contact sheets (vcs = video contact sheet) for A/1, B/1, and C/1. It ignores all the others.	00:48
SDuensin	Which, IMHO, is really f'ed up. :-)	00:48
SDuensin	Anybody? Anybody? Bueler?	01:02
scrottie0	sorry, I cannot relate that question to bash. actually, that description doesn't contain a question.	01:03
SDuensin	It goes along with the pastebin I posted.	01:04
scrottie0	just a guess, but when you run it, then wait a minute, and then in another window type 'top', is bash at 99.9% CPU?	01:05
SDuensin	Nope. Most I see is 3%.	01:06
scrottie0	no idea. rewrite it in perl?	01:06
SDuensin	lol	01:07
scrottie0	how about ruby?	01:08
SDuensin	Seems to have something to do with the return code of the called script.	01:10
+perlDreamer	something is blocking inside the vcs thing	01:10
+perlDreamer	like, it's waiting for STDIN	01:10
SDuensin	No, it doesn't hang. It just quits.	01:10
Haarg	what is its exit value?	01:11
SDuensin	I'm not entirely sure. My script never gets control again.	01:12
SDuensin	It's behaving as if I used "exec" to run the child script.	01:12
scrottie0	afk a bit	01:15
Haarg	try running it on the command line then checking $?	01:15
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* perlDreamer concurs with the delegate from Wisconsin		01:19
+perlDreamer	the problem is the vcs script	01:19
SDuensin	Right, but there should be a way to launch it and not care what happens after that.	01:20
@preaction	fork?	01:20
SDuensin	Maybe. Now I'm finding things on Google that say not to do "ls" in a bash script.	01:22
SDuensin	My bash-fu is weak.	01:22
+perlDreamer	you don't want to make a script that recurses and forks a process for eachone	01:32
+perlDreamer	that would be a small fork-bomb	01:32
SDuensin	At this point, I don't really care. I'm about ready to do that.	01:35
@preaction	it could fork and wait	01:35
SDuensin	The 'vcs' task takes some time to execute.	01:35
SDuensin	Fork & wait is the next try.	01:37
SDuensin	YES!!!!!	01:38
SDuensin	That works! Thank you!	01:38
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@preaction	now to wait 4 more hours as a TGC order rebuilds to figure out why certain pages don't get generated, with no errors, and no useful log output	02:45
@preaction	yay	02:45
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+perlDreamer	pages?	02:53
+perlDreamer	boards?	02:53
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@preaction	card oages	02:56
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+perlDreamer	hm, Norma, a Moose friendly ORM	03:18
+perlDreamer	uses load to grab stuff from the db	03:23
buu	Oh I was going to make an amusing comment about relational databases	03:36
buu	They remind me of very early computers	03:37
buu	They're pretty cool and obviously powerful, but we can't use them yet	03:37
+perlDreamer	dinner time, bbl all	03:40
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scrottie0	relational databases are great for reporting on structured data. too bad no one ever does that any more.	03:45
buu	scrottie0: Well I mean, like, it feels like asm programming	04:56
buu	Sure it's cool and all, but we could do so much more with a compiler	04:56
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buu	Hrm	09:29
buu	testEnvironment is failing on trying to install Net::Twitter..	09:29
buu	Oh, how amusing.	09:35
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buu	Somehow namespace::clean got broken.	09:35
buu	Also something is missing a dependency on UUID::Tiny	09:39
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buu	Also uh	09:50
buu	I can't create assets under wg8, heh.	09:50
buu	Also I can't access assets that are under root	09:53
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+perlDreamer	dang, the DOE and now the House of Representatives are now moving over to Drupal	18:03
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+bartjol	Rory know drupal	18:19
+perlDreamer	hm, Rory knows drupal, and Obama knows drupal	18:24
+perlDreamer	does that mean that Rory knows Obama?	18:24
* perlDreamer goes to the gym		18:42
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+bartjol	almost	18:44
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scrottie0	yarrrrr.	19:54
+perlDreamer	ahoy, scrottie0	19:55
preaction	arrr matey!	19:56
+perlDreamer	well shiver my keyboard, if it isn't me old matey preaction	19:58
preaction	ahh ya scurvy sea-dog, hars da family?	19:58
+perlDreamer	I shipped them off to one of those schools this morning an' the ships been quiet ever since	20:00
preaction	har! dere be da way to do it!	20:00
preaction	also, i'm going to rape and murder the person who wrote this code. fair warning, if any of you get called to testify at my trial, THEY HAD IT COMING	20:01
+perlDreamer	oh no matey, we were sailing out on the Monona that day	20:01
scrottie0	aye, let the little buccaneer pillage someone elses galley.	20:01
+perlDreamer	I remember it well	20:01
+perlDreamer	clear skies, but ice in the riggin'	20:01
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* sbaur wonders when talk like a pirate day moved to January		20:02
+perlDreamer	sorry, miss, but with your accent yer a bit hard to understand	20:02
scrottie0	lessie jimlad... me thinks it began when rum became a breakfest beverage	20:02
@preaction	i don't need me rum when i got me coffee! tis truly the devils drink!	20:03
+perlDreamer	aye! Keeps the eyes poppin', the stomach churnin' and it'll clean stains off yer plates and decks	20:03
* preaction wonders who thought to make a file with a guid name instead of an ordered incremental meaningful name		20:06
+perlDreamer	what're ye talkin' about?	20:06
@preaction	imagemagick.<timestamp>.<pid>.mpc <- seriously? SERIOUSLY?	20:06
+perlDreamer	you said the words "imagemagick" and some associated positive adjective. Those things don't go together.	20:07
@preaction	these intermediate files for TGC, I can leave them around to test whyt he PDFs aren't being made from them, but I can't reproduce exactly the PDFs because I don't know the order of the files, the order is lost	20:07
@preaction	so another rebuild. another 3 hours lost.	20:07
@preaction	day 3	20:07
* preaction might just be a little frustrated with this		20:07
+perlDreamer	these files wouldn't be in /tmp would they?	20:07
@preaction	they're the ones in /data/games/tmp	20:08
+perlDreamer	oh, okay	20:08
@preaction	they're all there, but only some of the PDFs were made from them	20:08
+perlDreamer	there's that cron job to clean up older image magick files in /tmp	20:08
+perlDreamer	but it only deletes those that are older than 4-6 hours, iirc	20:08
@preaction	so now i'm just gonna try making the PDFs, and see why some fail. i imagine it won't matter what pdf is being built and/or what it contains	20:09
@preaction	lucky for me, i made a script that would scan a dir and make a pdf of all the files (made pdfs of my comic book^W^Wgraphic novels for my ipod)	20:10
+perlDreamer	now you can read your comic books while you wait?	20:14
@preaction	no, someone stole my iphone	20:14
+perlDreamer	did you replace it?	20:17
@preaction	nope, can't afford another iphone. since i bought the iphone4 a few months ago to replace my 3gs that broke, they won't give me the upgrade/discount price, so even the least expensive iphone is $300	20:18
@preaction	so PB bought me a little cheap samsung phone that runs java everything. not a bad phone, but not an iphone or android or anything cool	20:18
@preaction	however, it has got me interested in samsung as a phone company, the Galaxy S looks awesome	20:18
scrottie0	how's the 3gs? is it just the broken screen that's the problem? if so, I think those can be replaced inexpensively.	20:22
@preaction	i tried to replace the screen and broke the LCD, it's done	20:22
+perlDreamer	ouch	20:22
scrottie0	eep.	20:22
@preaction	i mean, i suppose i might be able to get it repaird, but it'd be far more expensive now. at the time, i figured it was less expensive than upgrading (which was like $200 for the upgrade price)	20:23
@preaction	or if not less expensive, at least i'd have the upgrade, right?	20:23
@preaction	replace the LCD, probably $100. for twice as much, i have a whole new nicer phone.	20:23
scrottie0	the Chinese iPhone knock-offs that run WinCE are strangely compelling to me... mostly because it would be a tool to piss off Apple loyalists.	20:29
scrottie0	they can be had from about $76.	20:29
scrottie0	if you're good at keeping a straight face, take one of those into the Genius Bar for help.	20:31
+perlDreamer	dude, if you run WinCE you have to shave your head	20:31
scrottie0	even if I'm running it ironically?	20:31
@preaction	especially if you're running it ironically	20:32
+perlDreamer	technically, for just mentioning it you should get a haircut	20:32
scrottie0	I do have split ends.	20:32
@preaction	doesn't Herbal Essences help against those?	20:32
+perlDreamer	I liked it better when we talked like pirates	20:34
buu	perlDreamer: I don't know if this is useful, but ATT had refurb 3gs phones on their site for pretty cheap	20:35
+perlDreamer	might help preaction more than I, but thanks for the pointer!	20:36
buu	er	20:36
buu	preaction: ^	20:36
buu	I WAS TRYING.	20:36
buu	7\4	20:36
buu	And that would be my cat.	20:36
@preaction	7 shillings 4pence?	20:36
@preaction	A VERY MERRY UNBIRTHDAY TO YOU	20:36
buu	o.O	20:36
buu	preaction: So I tried running sbin/upgrade on my 8.0.x install, but naturally it claimed there was no upgrade path	20:37
buu	Is there anything else I need to run?	20:37
+perlDreamer	you have to upgrade from an older version of 7.10	20:37
@preaction	yeah, that	20:37
buu	er	20:37
+perlDreamer	look in share/upgrade/....	20:37
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buu	7.10.4-8.0.0 ?	20:38
+perlDreamer	yup, that's it	20:38
buu	My mind is blown	20:38
+perlDreamer	it's alpha code, and I'm behind in merging things from 7.10	20:38
buu	How do I tell what version I'm even on?	20:38
+perlDreamer	/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI.pm	20:39
+perlDreamer	or, Admin -> Statistics from the Admin Console	20:39
+perlDreamer	or, look in the source of a page from the site for the generator meta tag	20:39
buu	Ah	20:39
buu	Good to know	20:39
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buu	perlDreamer: So it says 7.9.19, do I need ot upgrade to 7.10 then upgrade to 8?	20:40
+perlDreamer	yes, and no	20:40
+perlDreamer	you can't upgrade from 7.9.19 to 7.10 yet	20:41
+perlDreamer	there's no upgrade path	20:41
+perlDreamer	buu, that extended silence isn't due frustrated sobbing, is it?	20:44
buu	perlDreamer: Scrottie totally told me to!	20:44
* scrottie0 sighs		20:44
buu	Haha, I was looking for my x-wing book	20:44
scrottie0	last time I touched it, it was running off of current 7.x databases. that was a while ago, it seems.	20:44
buu	Anyway, I don't have any data in the 7.9 install anyway, I can just replace it	20:44
+perlDreamer	ya, just go straight to a 8.0	20:45
scrottie0	er, there was an upgrade path from it.	20:45
+perlDreamer	scrottie0, you can go from 7.10.4 to 8.0	20:45
+perlDreamer	but you can't go from 7.9.19 to 7.10	20:45
+perlDreamer	you either had to go earlier (when 7.10 branched)	20:45
scrottie0	7.10.4 comes with a database dump, I assume, but does 8.0?	20:45
+perlDreamer	or you have to wait for the 7.10 to go stable	20:45
+perlDreamer	8.0 comes with a dump, too	20:46
+perlDreamer	same procedure for building a new site with it	20:46
scrottie0	okay, buu doesn't have any data in there yet, so use a different database name and run both side by side.	20:46
scrottie0	or serially, at least.	20:46
scrottie0	muck with 8, give up, go back to 7, etc.	20:46
+perlDreamer	you could run 8 inside a VM	20:47
+perlDreamer	but, if all you want to do is tinker, you can use the appliance, or a demo site	20:47
buu	perlDreamer: with create.sql?	20:47
@preaction	yeah, i think 8 has too many problems to use right now. we haven't even made sure all the assets actually work, which just shows our test coverage is lacking	20:47
@preaction	yes, share/create.sql	20:47
* perlDreamer is wounded		20:47
+perlDreamer	... not enough tests	20:47
* perlDreamer steps off to iron his hands		20:47
+perlDreamer	Dobby, give me that iron, will ya buddy?	20:48
@preaction	perlDreamer: not for our lack of trying, but i'm still coming across code added after our "test everything protocol" that do not have tests	20:48
@preaction	you want the 5-iron or the 3-iron?	20:48
+perlDreamer	TEP was suspended in october 2009	20:48
@preaction	wait, what?	20:48
+perlDreamer	for irons, whichever one comes with autostarching	20:51
buu	preaction: So, on a scale of 1 to WindowsME, what is the likelyhood of 8.0 blowing up and killing my entire family?	20:52
scrottie0	how large is your family, and do any of them live overseas?	20:53
@preaction	I'd say it's about a Vista on that scale, prettier, much prettier, but clearly needs some polish before it was forced on unsuspecting users. it's fine if you don't have to support really weird stuff, but if you do you might end up killing somebody	20:53
buu	preaction: Well, it's a brand new install with very vanilla requirements	20:54
buu	And I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of goats for pretty	20:54
scrottie0	if I add an IRC asset really quick, the chances of buu fixing bugs in WebGUI8 radically go up.	20:54
buu	haha	20:54
buu	So very true	20:54
buu	Man, if I could post assets from IRC	20:55
+perlDreamer	perlbot: bug post "buu needs IRC badly"	20:55
perlbot	perlDreamer: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [buu's website]	20:55
+perlDreamer	perlbot: buu's website	20:55
perlbot	perlDreamer: http://www.feminist.org	20:55
buu	o.O	20:55
buu	perlbot: revisions buu's website	20:56
perlbot	buu: [3435 by perlbot: buu's website is http://www.feminist.org]	20:56
@preaction	hah	20:56
+perlDreamer	yargh pink burns my eyes!	20:56
buu	You know, something that has continued to confuse me is that 'company url' in the setup screens	21:04
buu	Is that just for display in the footer?	21:04
+perlDreamer	it's for quick and easy use on the site	21:05
+perlDreamer	it's exposed via a macro, so you can change it in 1 place and have it change everywhere on the site	21:05
buu	perlDreamer: I guess the intention is for people using webgui as a small component of a large company site	21:06
buu	?	21:06
+perlDreamer	no, you could use it as a whole company site	21:06
buu	Sure	21:06
buu	But that's why the url confuses me	21:06
buu	Heh	21:06
+perlDreamer	laziness	21:06
+perlDreamer	do you want to handcode http://www.mycompany.com everywhere?	21:06
+perlDreamer	or just do ^c;	21:07
+perlDreamer	or is that ^u; ?	21:07
+perlDreamer	yeah, ^u; is URL	21:07
+perlDreamer	^c is company name	21:07
+perlDreamer	and ^e is default contact email	21:07
buu	haha	21:10
buu	perlDreamer: Um. How do I get plack/starman to tell me more details when it fails to find a file?	21:10
buu	As in GET /uploads/12/14/1214f00781409cb64f9fe7ed75edfd68/bg.gif HTTP/1.1" 404	21:10
@preaction	the webgui log might have more info	21:11
+perlDreamer	well, uploads is supposed to map to a directory like /data/domains/www.mycompany.com/public/uploads	21:11
+perlDreamer	so 1) Check the uploadsPath entry in the config file	21:11
+perlDreamer	2) check that the file permissions allow starman to see that file, and make sure it exists	21:11
+perlDreamer	stooopid skype!	21:12
buu	I have "uploadsPath" set	21:13
buu	Maybe it's not using this config file?	21:13
buu	It'd be nice to see where it's looking	21:13
buu	Oh, hrm.	21:14
buu	Is there anyway to change the template after the site has been installed?	21:17
@preaction	which one? and yes of course	21:17
@preaction	oh, the style template?	21:17
buu	Yeah	21:17
buu	The original "which style do you want to use"	21:17
@preaction	what you want to probably do is Edit Branch when on the home page, that will let you recursively edit some stuff, like style template	21:17
buu	preaction: Well the problem is, I think, I had a missconfiguration so it failed to write the correct template files into uploads/	21:18
@preaction	that Edit Branch shows up in More menu on the Tree view in the Admin (8) or in the Asset Manager	21:18
buu	So I'm trying to get it to re-do that op	21:18
@preaction	templates aren't files, they're in the DB	21:18
buu	preaction: Well, I'm missing the /uploads/foo/bar/12312312312312/bg.gif	21:18
@preaction	if uploads is missing something, you can re-copy from /data/WebGUI/share/uploads (in 8)	21:18
buu	Oh, uh	21:19
buu	OH	21:19
@preaction	or, it may be that it was part of the upgrade. the create.sql that's included with 8 isn't ... really... 8.0.0, it's more... 7.10.4 (iirc)	21:19
buu	Oh, nope.	21:20
@preaction	create.sql is created by our release process, but 8.0.0 hasn't been released	21:20
buu	preaction: My log has a bunch of 2011/01/13 14:07:08 - ERROR - sc2gg.conf - WebGUI::Storage::_addError[107] - Couldn't create storage location	21:20
buu	Which was a permission error	21:20
@preaction	ah	21:20
buu	I'm assuming that was part of the template thing	21:20
buu	(Because I'm missing files like bg.gif)	21:20
@preaction	maybe, most likely	21:20
* buu re-runs		21:21
scrottie0	uploads should get copied into your webroot, and the webgui.conf should point to the copy in there, if I'm not mistaken.	21:22
@preaction	yep	21:22
buu	preaction: Also as a minor note I'm pretty sure I chose 'don't add additional templates' but I got an about-us page anyway	21:23
@preaction	oh, there are pages that are in there by default	21:23
@preaction	and then theres others that can be added	21:23
@preaction	that whole wizard thing needs a re-look, the dichotomy is: it's a 1-time feature, but it's the most visible to new users	21:24
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buu	preaction: Yep	21:27
buu	Certainly it's the part I've seen the most	21:28
@preaction	yeah, but once your site is running, it's absolutely useless, you'll never see it again	21:28
buu	Hrm, nope, no bg images	21:28
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buu	I'm using plackup -E development -s Starman --workers 10 --disable-keepalive app.psgi	21:29
buu	Where would my errors show up?	21:29
@preaction	do you have wgd? try to use "wgd reset -b" to restore	21:29
@preaction	they'd show up in the webgui.log, if anywhere	21:29
@preaction	and as development, they'd show in the debug console maybe	21:29
buu	preaction: in log.conf?	21:30
@preaction	yeah, log.conf describes where webgui.log will be	21:30
@preaction	also, make sure log.conf is at INFO level, not ERROR level, you'll get better error messages	21:30
@preaction	or at least, more of them, so you can feel like you've got better ones	21:30
buu	heh	21:31
buu	You mean the log4perl.logger = ERROR, mainlog should be INFO?	21:31
@preaction	yep	21:32
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@preaction	log4perl is nice, but it could be a little less incomprehensible to configure sometimes...	21:32
buu	Hrm, no output	21:32
buu	It's creating a log file..	21:32
* buu mutters		21:32
buu	Let me go get wgd	21:33
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buu	Ack	21:38
+perlDreamer	that's a good tell, install it while you're working on wgd	21:39
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buu	perlDreamer: I installed wgd and windows crashed	21:42
+perlDreamer	windows?	21:42
buu	Also what is WEBGUI_CONFIG supposed to point to?	21:42
+perlDreamer	the whole path to a WebGUI config file	21:42
buu	oh	21:42
buu	Hrm	21:42
buu	Well it worked just specifying the local name	21:42
buu	=]	21:42
Haarg	wgd intro has a decent summary of the config/root/sitename options	21:43
buu	For this, you	21:43
buu	can either use the "WEBGUI_ROOT" and "WEBGUI_CONFIG"/"WEBGUI_SITENAME" environment variables, setting the	21:43
buu	Oh wait, it did actually answer that question, I just skimmed over it	21:43
buu	^_^	21:43
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buu	Augh, I has no image files.	21:45
+perlDreamer	preaction, almost ready to merge and push "gateway" changes	21:47
+perlDreamer	we'll know after lunch	21:47
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@preaction	yay!	21:48
@preaction	more yay: the pdf files i'm creating are succeeding, but they fail reliably with the other process doing exactly the same thing.	21:51
@preaction	which mean i get to rewrite the other process, as i've wanted to do since it was written the first time...	21:51
buu	preaction: I'm going to do try a complete re-do of the install process using wg8, do I follow the exact same steps as the source install excepting the apache stuff?	21:53
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@preaction	should work, yes, but you're the first	21:54
@preaction	well, maybe second	21:54
buu	-_-	21:54
@preaction	no wait, THIRD!	21:54
buu	I just want my pretty underground style pictures.	21:54
@preaction	wgd reset -b not work?	21:54
buu	Sadly no	21:55
@preaction	hrmph	21:55
buu	No errors or anything, but the files didn't get created	21:56
@preaction	hells bells	21:56
buu	I might have had a configuration error someplace, I copied some of the files from my wg7 install	21:56
@preaction	oh, right, you need -b --config	21:56
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buu	preaction: Super basic git question, but once I clone it I just need git checkout --track -b webgui8 origin/WebGUI8; right	21:58
@preaction	i think so yes. looks right at least	21:58
buu	hehe	21:58
buu	Well I have an app.psgi and stuff	21:59
@preaction	yep, that'll be it	21:59
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buu	preaction: Is "uploadsPath" : "/data/WebGUI/www/uploads" supposed to be the 'global' webgui www/uploads	22:06
buu	Or domains/site/public/uploads	22:06
@preaction	the domains/site one	22:06
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buu	Oh my god this config file goes on forever	22:08
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@preaction	yeah, yeah it does. Morpheus might eventually help us with that	22:10
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buu	preaction: When I run plackup ...; how does it know which site.conf file to use?	22:14
buu	Does it use all of them somehow?	22:14
buu	Is that what the 'domain' setting is for, vhosting?	22:14
@preaction	app.psgi uses WebGUI::Path to find and load all the config files	22:14
@preaction	well, WebGUI::Path to find the place, WebGUI::Config->loadAllConfigs to load all the conf files	22:15
@preaction	each config is then loaded using share/site.psgi	22:15
buu	preaction: But when I visit foo.com:5000; which conf file is that using?	22:15
@preaction	sitename in the config file	22:15
buu	preaction: You mean the config file that has foo.com as a sitename?	22:15
Haarg	yes	22:15
@preaction	yep	22:15
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buu	Okily dokily	22:15
Haarg	if it doesn't match one of the sitenames, it uses the first config file it found	22:15
buu	I've done a clean check out, created my db users, run create.sql, added a new conf file, run spectre, copied some upload directories around...	22:16
Haarg	you need to run the upgrade too	22:17
buu	!	22:17
buu	Wait waht	22:17
Haarg	create.sql and such aren't updated until there is a release	22:17
@preaction	create.sql is made during a release, but 8 hasnt' been released, so create.sql is one version behind	22:17
buu	RAWR	22:17
plainhao	so the release of wg8 is this summer?	22:19
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buu	preaction: So what do I run to upgrade?	22:19
@preaction	that's the plan, subject to change	22:19
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@preaction	buu: cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl upgrade.pl --doit	22:19
@preaction	i think	22:19
buu	Oh	22:19
buu	Right	22:19
@preaction	we have a new upgrade system, dunno if the script takes the same args or not	22:20
buu	Upgrades complete.	22:20
@preaction	did it do something?	22:20
buu	preaction: Wait, should I run upgrade before or after I run through the 'new site wizard', or does it matter	22:20
Haarg	upgrade script takes basically the same args as the old version	22:21
@preaction	shouldn't matter	22:21
buu	And yes, it gave me a bunch of stuff	22:21
@preaction	ok, then you should be good to go	22:21
* buu goes		22:21
buu	I'm selecting [style] underground..	22:21
buu	No thanks Page Builder	22:22
buu	And still no images!	22:22
buu	http://erxz.com:5000/uploads/12/14/1214f00781409cb64f9fe7ed75edfd68/bg.gif	22:22
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buu	Nothing particularly interesting is showing up in the log..	22:24
@preaction	does that path exist in domains/public/uploads?	22:25
buu	Nope	22:25
buu	I have a webgui/www/uploads/12/14/1214f00781409cb64f9ff7ed75edfd68/bg.gif	22:25
buu	(Which isn't the same string)	22:25
plainhao	is there a todo list for wg8?	22:26
@preaction	plainhao: http://webgui.org/8 yep	22:26
plainhao	thanks, preaction	22:26
@preaction	wtf, it varied by one character?	22:26
buu	Yep	22:26
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buu	f9fe -> f9ff	22:27
@preaction	that a hex of a hash, built from the base64 of the hash	22:28
buu	preaction: Is this file supposed to be existing in www/uploads or is it created at runtime somehow?	22:28
@preaction	it should exist as-is	22:28
buu	Well	22:28
@preaction	a WebGUI::Storage is created, given a guid, the guid is stored in the database as base64, and then hexed to get the disk location because base64 fails on case-insensitive filesystems	22:29
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buu	And the path in the underground.css is static?	22:31
buu	So can you check if background: #FFF url(/uploads/12/14/1214f00781409cb64f9fe7ed75edfd68/bg.gif) repeat-x; in underground.css matches your upload dir?	22:31
@preaction	it shoul dbe a ^FileUrl macro, when you view the snippet	22:31
buu	Oh	22:31
@preaction	i'm gonna check some things myself quick too	22:32
buu	I can give you access to this install if you want	22:34
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@preaction	not yet, mine works, so there has to be a difference	22:34
@preaction	huh. mine doesn't work either. exacty the same output	22:35
buu	=]	22:36
@preaction	and we did change how we made GUIDs...	22:37
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buu	Oh my	22:39
buu	This admin thingy is hiny	22:39
@preaction	danke	22:39
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buu	preaction: Except the 'main' window displaying the actual page is like 200px high	22:40
@preaction	Haarg: got a minute? the base64 -> hex has changed, so uploads dirs don't line up anymore	22:40
@preaction	buu: yeah, i haven't tested it in anything except Chrome, so there's probably some fun problems w/ the JS/CSS	22:41
Haarg	give me a minute. working on fixing a wgd problem.	22:41
@preaction	np	22:41
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buu	preaction: <div id="viewTab" class="" style="height: 100%;"><iframe name="view" src="/home"></iframe></div>	22:43
buu	(I added the height:)	22:44
buu	And it fixed the problem	22:44
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@preaction	k, i'll merge that (and test on some of the other browsers too)	22:44
@preaction	is that FF?	22:44
buu	Yep	22:45
buu	preaction: You might need a height: 100%; on the #wrapper .yui-content {} block as well	22:46
buu	I had to add it to both of those	22:46
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@preaction	k, i'll try	22:47
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Haarg	preaction, my wgdev problem turns out to have been using an old version. looking at hex encoding now.	22:48
buu	Anyway, I need to go pick people up, I shall return.	22:48
@preaction	i'm checking it too, comparing against the old code, which is almost the same. so much the same...	22:49
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@preaction	it's URLSafe doing it.	22:50
Haarg	that's what i would think	22:50
@preaction	i restore the old tr{} we had, and it works	22:50
Haarg	but i don't how	22:50
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Haarg	*know how	22:52
@preaction	it does something different to + looks like	22:52
@preaction	it does + as -, we do + as _	22:52
Haarg	yeah, it has them reversed from how we do them	22:53
Haarg	ugh	22:53
Haarg	my fault	22:53
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@preaction	no worries. i'll remove it and add tests for future generations	22:54
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Haarg	would probably be good to have tests to validate how we handle >128-bit guids	22:56
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@preaction	buu: that push fixed it	23:01
@preaction	oh, right, height: 100% stuff	23:02
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CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rbcb14ea / (lib/WebGUI/GUID.pm t/Session/Id.t): remove MIME::Base64::URLSafe as they do it reversely (+15 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/haWw5w	23:04
@preaction	... then why is it still broken...	23:06
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+perlDreamer	ours is not to reason why...	23:11
@preaction	ours is but to do and die	23:11
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@preaction	ah, it was broken because -d does not rebuild the uploads, but -b does	23:16
@preaction	because most of the time, devs don't care about rebuilding uploads	23:16
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Haarg	uh, -d does rebuild uploads	23:19
@preaction	hmm	23:21
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@preaction	then i don't know. maybe i explicitly had to rm -rf uploads	23:22
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CIA-71	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r8ba07e0 / www/extras/admin/admin.css : fix admin view tab height problem in FF - http://bit.ly/eamf3p	23:29
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CIA-71	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * reb16ecb / t/Asset/EMSSubmissionForm.t : Another (probably last) leaky test fixed. (+12 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/hxB1J8	23:34
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+perlDreamer	preaction: didn't you do this one: http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11720 ?	23:44
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@preaction	yes, except for what is left in the ticket	23:45
@preaction	the profilefield api is broken and easily causes death to databases and websites	23:45
+perlDreamer	kind of like Weasley's wand	23:47
+perlDreamer	we'll be sending WebGUI home in a matchbox	23:47
@preaction	yep	23:47
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+perlDreamer	preaction, now that gateway is done, I'll look into the Basic Auth thing next	23:55
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@preaction	3 days later, the problem with TGC is spectre running /bin/cp -R on a directory containing over 4 gigabytes. spectre gets killed after 60 seconds. WHO DO YOU THINK WINS THE RACE?	23:58
@preaction	that this took 3 days to track down is a testament to how spaghetti this code really is...	23:58
+perlDreamer	what's running cp -R ?	23:59
@preaction	the gameorders workflow activity	23:59
+perlDreamer	ugh	23:59
@preaction	it does everything else in an external process, except for THIS	23:59
--- Day changed Fri Jan 14 2011
+perlDreamer	I'm not going to ask why, because it won't matter	00:00
@preaction	also, i'm assuming, only assuming this is the problem. i just have a better idea that it's this than anything else	00:00
@preaction	because my test PDF generation worked fine, no errrors. the PDFs are fine	00:00
@preaction	and i don't even know how to make this a cronjob, i don't	00:01
+perlDreamer	I can help with that :)	00:01
@preaction	there's a state machine in here that makes no sense	00:01
@preaction	in theory, i could just rip the whole thing apart, take execute and make it the main sub in a script, substituting the definition for something else	00:02
@preaction	... or i could fork	00:06
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+perlDreamer	something doesn't feel right	00:06
+perlDreamer	spectre shouldn't be killed after 60 seconds	00:06
+perlDreamer	that's the job of the activity	00:06
+perlDreamer	maybe it's the http timeout in spectre talking to wG that's the problem?	00:07
@preaction	5 minutes then, eventually spectre will die	00:07
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@preaction	what would happen if i system("nohup cp -R ... &")?	00:13
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@preaction	it does get backgrounded, but what happens if the apache process dies?	00:13
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+perlDreamer	can't that part of the process be moved into the cron job?	00:14
+perlDreamer	or, if it's just the moving, we could put a tag file into the directory	00:15
+perlDreamer	and then run a 2nd cron job just to move stuff	00:15
@preaction	i dont' know, seriously this code is completely fucked up	00:15
@preaction	i mean, in theory, sure, but the debug process is going to take a while	00:15
+perlDreamer	yeah, 4 hours per whack	00:16
+perlDreamer	and people complain about running the test suite!	00:16
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buu	preaction: Hey, what else do I need to do to get the fix besides git pull; and restarting plack?	00:16
@preaction	worse, there's so much spaghetti here i don't think it'll be just 6 tries	00:16
@preaction	buu: you might need to wgd reset -b	00:16
@preaction	how about this? I disable the build process and try to get this one to build until the end of the day. if i can't, i try to fork and daemonize	00:18
+perlDreamer	daemonize?	00:19
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@preaction	remove the process from the terminal, assign it to init, all the stuff that means "i don't get killed when the apache process gets restarted as it always does"	00:20
+perlDreamer	I think as long as the build team knows that it'll be offline for a while, you can do what you need	00:21
+perlDreamer	does zabbix record disk used so we can trend it?	00:21
@preaction	maybe?	00:22
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buu	preaction: That appears to have worked	00:24
@preaction	yay!	00:24
@preaction	one ounce of sunlight in a long ton of manure	00:24
buu	=]	00:24
buu	Is it just me or does plack/starman feel incredibly slow	00:25
buu	Can I still run it under mp?	00:25
@preaction	you can run under mp, yes	00:25
buu	Oh and uh	00:25
buu	How do I turn admin off?	00:25
@preaction	heh, yeah, about that...	00:25
buu	=O	00:26
@preaction	logout will do it, right now the only way is to set adminOff in the database for your session, but the new AC doesn't have an "off", because the new AC is just "when you're in it, you're in admin"	00:26
@preaction	so as a corner-cutting, i just set admin on, knowing that before 8.0.0 is released, i'll fix that	00:26
@preaction	logout will set adminOn to 0 in the userSession table for your session	00:27
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buu	preaction: Can't you have a button that does adminOn=0 in the session then?	00:30
@preaction	there could be, but as mentioned, it won't matter. there will be no switching of state at all, you're either in the ?op=admin shell, or you're not. it'll be some fancy JS getting into the iframe and doing what it needs to do	00:31
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@preaction	adding the toolbars and the page object mover things	00:31
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@preaction	but yeah, you could add an entry to adminConsole in the config file that goes to the url ?op=switchOffAdmin iirc	00:32
@preaction	there might be one still, in fact	00:32
+perlDreamer	I thought we had one of those already?	00:32
@preaction	yes, but in 8, there is no "mode", so i may have removed it	00:32
buu	preaction: Hrm. In the admin console, I added a 'forum object' as a child under /home, then navigated to it, then clicked 'add a forum', I get a page load from the browser, but no form to add anything	00:33
@preaction	check the error log. collaboration is probably broken	00:33
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@preaction	"can't call method" will be the likely error message	00:34
buu	WebGUI::Asset::dispatch[699] - Couldn't call method www_add on asset for url: /forum Root cause: Not a WebGUI::Asset class	00:34
@preaction	that's a new one. why does it think that...	00:34
@preaction	oh... did class= get passed in the URL?	00:34
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buu	http://erxz.com:5000/forum?func=add;class=WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration	00:35
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+perlDreamer	buu, try this please	00:36
+perlDreamer	perl -wc -I /data/WebGUI/lib /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm	00:37
+perlDreamer	and see what it says	00:37
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buu	buu@erxz$ perl -wc -I lib lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm	00:39
buu	lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm syntax OK	00:39
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+perlDreamer	that's good	00:39
@preaction	i'd put money on it being a bad check in www_add	00:40
+perlDreamer	that error comes from loadModule	00:40
buu	Yeah	00:41
+perlDreamer	it's the wrong variable name	00:41
@preaction	oh, right, i changed it	00:42
@preaction	because it's className everywhere else, and class for www_add	00:42
+perlDreamer	maybe the opposite of that	00:42
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+perlDreamer	in www_add it's className, too	00:42
@preaction	but perhaps the URLs inside WebGUI that use class= aren't changed	00:42
@preaction	well, it used to be class=	00:42
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@preaction	it should be className, because that's the db's column and the addRevision property and everything else	00:43
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@preaction	http://erxz.com:5000/forum?func=add;className=WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration <- works better, but i'm not empowered	00:43
buu	Yeah, if I change to className it works	00:43
buu	Although I get giant whitespace	00:44
@preaction	is there a form beneath it?	00:44
buu	Yep	00:45
@preaction	i think some of the edit forms add styles that they shouldn't. that's a known bug, but i keep forgetting to document them, which i shall do presently	00:45
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+perlDreamer	preaction: where does it create those URLs?	00:49
+perlDreamer	is it it the JS?	00:49
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@preaction	i think they're either in the template vars, or they're in the template	00:50
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+perlDreamer	very odd	00:51
+perlDreamer	all the URLs look correct to me	00:51
+perlDreamer	func=add;className=...	00:51
+perlDreamer	buu, if you'd file a ticket for us at http://www.webgui.org/8, we'll look at it	00:52
@preaction	i already did	00:53
@preaction	nothing seems to be func=add in the import node either	00:53
@preaction	nope, there it is, MessageBoard.pm line 150	00:54
@preaction	form.add.url	00:54
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@preaction	er.. forum.add.url	00:54
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+perlDreamer	maybe we should have a method for a class to add itself?	00:55
+perlDreamer	so we only have to change it 1 place?	00:55
@preaction	like getUrlAdd or something?	00:57
+perlDreamer	maybe	00:57
+perlDreamer	I just get tired of doing code forensics, trying to hunt stuff down	00:57
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@preaction	eh, ack is perfect for it, and :grep in vim of course	00:58
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* perlDreamer is off to pick up kids from school, bbiaw		01:39
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buu	wow	01:53
+perlDreamer	back	02:15
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andyiomoon	hola perlDreamer	03:32
+perlDreamer	ahoy, sir!	03:32
andyiomoon	are you seeing my latest Skype comments?	03:32
+perlDreamer	no	03:32
andyiomoon	damn skype at the horse it rode in on	03:32
+perlDreamer	totally	03:33
andyiomoon	I see - it has "pending" written next to it	03:33
andyiomoon	I have posted in our other skype chat window - any luck there?	03:33
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+perlDreamer	I have a PM directly from you, but nothing in the group chat	03:34
+perlDreamer	last message in my group chat is 2:37PM my time, about 3 hours ago	03:34
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andyiomoon	ok	03:35
+perlDreamer	did you stop chatting, or are you awaiting an answer?	03:40
andyiomoon	I stopped chatting	03:41
+perlDreamer	phew	03:42
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buu	Is a 'redirect asset' literally just a link to an outside domain	03:47
@preaction	a link to anything, really	03:50
buu	What is the "Import Node"?	04:06
@preaction	it's the place where the default set of images, templates, and css/js snippets goes	04:07
@preaction	also, /root/import	04:07
buu	I'm wandering through the designer's guide and " 5.	04:09
buu	You're done! You now have your workspace created in the Import Node. Put all of your files here.	04:09
buu	Is it just a convention?	04:10
@preaction	yeah, if you're in the Tree, you can breadcrumb your way back to root, under root there are "home", "import", "media", and "tempspace". import is the default stuff, and a good place to put your other templates and junk. media is attachments uploaded through the rich editor, tempspace is temporary	04:10
@preaction	yeah, pretty much	04:10
@preaction	but it's there, it has to be, system won't let you delete it, so might as well use it	04:10
buu	Hrm	04:11
@preaction	over time i want to allow templates on the filesystem instead of only as assets, and then all the default stuff will be files, not assets	04:11
@preaction	then no need for an import node	04:11
buu	preaction: I ran into a problem earlier, the actual "site" assets, "about us", "forums", "etc" are all under /home, which is fine, but when you click on the Home button you go to /; which means a new asset you create ends up under /root	04:11
@preaction	hmm... that must be an 8 issue	04:12
buu	Well	04:12
buu	Let me reverify	04:12
@preaction	/ is never /root, only /root is /root, but it's possible that www_add doesn't know what, or that the new URL handling stuff we do with Plack doesn't know what	04:13
@preaction	it's weird either way	04:13
buu	I take it back, I can't reproduce it currently	04:14
buu	I might have messed with it somehow.	04:14
@preaction	eh, if it happens again, just let us know	04:15
buu	preaction: I think what I was most curious is how to change what /home displays	04:18
@preaction	like, what assets are on home? add/remove whatever you'd like. you could also create shortcuts to other pages' assets (the little arrow icon in the toolbar next to most assets)	04:20
buu	preaction: Well, I mean, by default it displays every single asset under /home right?	04:20
@preaction	except pages	04:20
@preaction	if you edit any page, you can hide what's displayed	04:21
@preaction	and in Admin mode, you can move them around	04:21
buu	Um.	04:21
@scrottie	/home is a WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Layout. this is what you want. be happy.	04:22
buu	This isn't what I want! I'm not happy!	04:23
@scrottie	you only don't want it because you can't not have it!	04:23
@preaction	ahhhh. make something new inside /root, whatever you want, then go to Settings > Content > Default Page, and select your new thing	04:23
@preaction	whatever that new thing is will be /, and then you can delete the existing /home (and make sure to purge your trash) and call the new thing /home	04:24
@preaction	but that last bit isn't really necessary	04:24
buu	Um.	04:24
@scrottie	there's this WebGUI Content Manager's Guide online that I need to read. it explains the reasoning and functioning behind the various types of assets included (and then there's the Developer's Guide should you decide you want to make your own)	04:24
buu	scrottie: I just read it!	04:25
buu	Actually	04:25
@scrottie	really!	04:25
buu	Yeah	04:25
buu	I'm working on the designer's guide	04:25
@scrottie	buu++.	04:25
buu	scrottie: Honestly 50% of that guide is just repeating an explanation of what all the various check boxes do in the edit pages	04:25
@scrottie	I'm curious then, what kind of asset do you want for /home?	04:25
@scrottie	yeah.	04:26
@scrottie	I'd love to spend some time with those.	04:26
@preaction	yeah. it's less of a "Here's how you build a website." and more of a "Here's what you can use to build a website."	04:26
buu	scrottie: At the moment I just want an Article	04:27
buu	It seems like the basic desire for a website	04:27
@scrottie	any reason you're opposed to removing everything from the layout and then just adding an article to the layout?	04:28
buu	scrottie: Well, as I understand it I could A) specifically hide every asset under it, which is lame because I would rather specifically include rather than exclude	04:30
buu	or B) move the items out from under /home	04:30
@preaction	er.. you can delete them entirely	04:30
buu	preaction: But .. I want them!	04:31
@preaction	only /home itself cannot be deleted, because it's set as your current home page	04:31
@preaction	ohhh	04:31
buu	I mean	04:31
buu	I'm fumbling around here	04:31
@preaction	ohhhh i think i see now	04:31
@scrottie	one of the wgd reset options leaves you with a bare /home, if I recall	04:31
buu	I have /home	04:31
buu	i want it to be like , "hey, welcome to my site"	04:31
buu	Then I want /wiki	04:31
buu	Preferably a child under /home/wiki	04:31
buu	See what I mean?	04:31
@preaction	if you make pages under /home, and then put the wiki on the /wiki page, and then a new page for forum and the forum on the forum page	04:31
@scrottie	you can do /wiki if you want. add the wiki and specify that as it's url in the little control panel thing you get when you edit it.	04:31
@preaction	that way they are on their own page, so they won't show up on the home page. the page shows up in the navigation, and everybody's happy	04:32
@preaction	except there's an additional layer in there, but what i don't see can't hurt me	04:33
buu	preaction: How do I get it to show up in the navigation?	04:35
@preaction	the new page? it should just happen, it has Hide from Navigation set to false by default	04:35
@preaction	otherwise that setting is on the Display tab of an asset	04:36
buu	preaction: Unless I missed something, the nav only shows things under /home	04:36
@preaction	right, the page should be under /home	04:36
@preaction	but URL has nothing to do with position in the tree, so the new page could take the /wiki URL	04:36
@scrottie	wgd reset --clear	04:37
buu	preaction: Right right	04:38
@scrottie	wgd reset --help # danger: reloads the database	04:38
buu	haha	04:38
@scrottie	er, --help doesn't.	04:38
@scrottie	wgd does.	04:38
scrottie0	should though.	04:39
* scrottie0 spits		04:39
@preaction	it would help, not sure who or what, but someone, somewhere	04:39
buu	what	04:40
buu	Anyway!	04:40
buu	preaction: I missed the part that causes "that way they are on their own page, so they won't show up on the home page"	04:41
buu	Are you saying I should delete /home then recreate it as a simple article or something?	04:41
buu	Does /home have any special meaning beyond existing as a default page?	04:41
@preaction	nono, keep home as a Page Layout, then add another Page Layout underneath home. then add the Wiki onto that new layout	04:42
@preaction	nope	04:42
buu	Er	04:43
buu	When you say 'onto that' you mean as a child?	04:44
@preaction	yep	04:44
buu	So /home/foo/wiki	04:45
@preaction	that will be the actual wiki asset, yep	04:45
buu	And /home won't display /foo because it's a page layout?	04:46
@preaction	right	04:46
buu	Magic!	04:54
buu	preaction: What if I just make /home a folder	04:54
buu	And make /home/foo my default page	04:54
buu	Or maybe /site	04:54
@preaction	might work	04:54
@preaction	doesn't matter what default page is, hell that might even be better	04:55
@preaction	just update your navigation to use the folder as its root	04:55
buu	Right	04:56
buu	Tying the nav to the default page seems kinda crude	04:56
@preaction	it's not, you can change the nav's settings	04:57
@preaction	it's just the nav that comes with that style template you're using	04:58
buu	Right	05:01
buu	But I mean	05:02
buu	Well, anyway.	05:02
buu	Oh, hrm. Here's the problem.	05:52
buu	I made a folder Site; then an article inside Site named 'Index' and set Site/Index to my Default Page	06:03
buu	So now whenever I create a new item it becomes a child of Site/Index/	06:03
buu	Which is .. annoying.	06:03
@preaction	it shouldn't	06:04
@preaction	it should become a child of the page you're currently on	06:04
@preaction	whatever page that is	06:04
buu	preaction: Well, this is creating the asset on /	06:04
scrottie0	that's a terrible name. you should name it mfcisapi.ddl/	06:04
scrottie0	dll	06:04
buu	Thanks scrottie.	06:04
buu	preaction: Which I assume is the same as being $default_page	06:04
buu	preaction: But you see what I'm trying to do right?	06:04
buu	I'm not completely insane	06:05
@preaction	yes, i'm worried that whereever you go, you put something under the default page	06:05
@preaction	is that what's happening?	06:05
@preaction	you could spend more time in Tree view, adding stuff	06:06
buu	Uh, you mean if I go to say, /wiki, which is a child of /Site/Index/ atm	06:08
buu	It will become a child of /Site/Index instead of .../wikik?	06:08
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@preaction	no, it should become a child of /wiki	06:09
@preaction	if it doesn't, that's a bug	06:09
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buu	preaction: Ok, in the asset manager, if I'm in the 'root' view, then 'Back to Site' links to /index, which is the url to my /Root/Site/Index article asset	06:13
buu	But if I go into /Root/Site; then back to site links to /site	06:13
buu	(Also I'm back on 7.9 for the record)	06:14
@preaction	yeah, "Back to site" changes around like that	06:15
@preaction	in /import, it goes somewhere else entirely	06:15
buu	wACKY.	06:17
buu	Ack, cats.	06:17
buu	I think I've managed to break a fundamental assumption	06:18
buu	preaction: Is there a way to set a default display page for a folder?	06:18
@preaction	that the system always knows best?	06:18
@preaction	a folder just displays a list of whatever's in it, but you can template that list sure	06:18
buu	Um.	06:19
@preaction	i'm not understanding you, am i?	06:19
buu	I'd rather it work like a webserver's folder, displaying an index	06:19
buu	But that's a minor concern	06:19
buu	preaction: I think essentially what I'm trying to do here is recreate a traditional website filesystem layout through the asset manager	06:19
buu	Which, given the pain I'm having, appears to be the wrong design.	06:20
buu	Ok, so I went to /wiki; created an article, and it showed up as a child	06:20
buu	It's just that / is translated to be the default page	06:20
@preaction	right, which has no bearing on the actual URL of the asset that is considered "default"	06:21
buu	preaction: What I'd like to have happen is to have a folder Site; with an index page Index that is displayed as the root page; but if you create new pages it shows up as a child of /Site	06:21
buu	There's this odd link where site assets are assumed to be children of the default page	06:22
@preaction	okay, so you'd want the folder as the default page, and then pages inside the folder, which is what you're doing, no?	06:22
buu	preaction: Close, I want an asset inside the folder to be the default displayed page	06:22
buu	So I have an article /Site/Index; and if I go to foo.com/; I want that index asset to be displayed	06:22
@preaction	ahh	06:23
buu	Am I going about this the hard way?	06:23
@preaction	a little, yeah	06:23
@preaction	what you then want is just layouts	06:23
buu	preaction: My problem is basically if I make everything the child of the 'default page' what happens if I want to change the default page?	06:23
@preaction	the home page is a layout, and everything under that is a layout	06:23
@preaction	in the tree view, it'll look like a folder, but when you go to / it's a layout	06:24
@preaction	er.. in the Asset Manager	06:24
buu	Right, I think you mentioned this before, if the default page is a Layout and I made every asset under it also a layout, it wouldn't display them.	06:24
buu	Which seems like it would be kinda painful	06:24
buu	What about subclassing whatever class implements Layout and modify how it finds children to display?	06:25
@preaction	you could, it's pretty hairy in there, but not that bad	06:25
@preaction	it wouldn't display those pages inside the first page, but you could still go to them	06:25
buu	Right	06:26
buu	preaction: but if I created a wiki; I would have to create layout, goto layout, create wiki	06:27
buu	Really the default would be fine if it just did whitelisting instead of blacklisting	06:27
@preaction	that'd be easier to change	06:27
@preaction	in my perfect future WebGUI, pages would act pretty much as you want them to: images, articles, and views of other applications would only appear when the user placed them there	06:28
@preaction	but that perfect future is a ways away at this rate	06:29
@preaction	apps wouldn't exist in a "tree", there would just be a list of pages/apps (i suppose i could use URLs to make a tree out of them)	06:30
buu	How would you associate them?	06:30
@preaction	they'd just have a URL. a page would know what was on it, but that'd be it	06:31
@preaction	so i could present the apps as a tree, but it wouldn't matter. the URL would define the tree	06:32
@preaction	which makes more sense to most people	06:32
buu	So anything under /foo/ is part of that tree?	06:32
@preaction	you could add multiple URLs to a page/app too, so it wouldn't matter	06:32
@preaction	right	06:32
buu	Yeah, allowing you to specify any url regardless of tree location is a bit odd	06:32
@preaction	/foo would show up under /, //foo/bar would show up under /foo, just by sake of being the URL	06:32
buu	I mean, it makes sense, but it creates odd things	06:32
buu	Right, but that's essentially what you're doing now	06:33
buu	Just invisible urls	06:33
@preaction	right	06:33
@preaction	the actual lineage is just in the db	06:33
buu	preaction: Heh, this reminds me of my years of pain trying to store trees in databases.	06:35
@preaction	well, it's a little more convoluted: that Article you place on the Layout has its own URL. nobody will ever know that, nobody will ever view that Article out of its Layout, but it has one just the same	06:35
@preaction	actually, the lineage system we have isn't so bad	06:35
buu	So	06:36
buu	my $childIter = $self->getLineageIterator(["children"],{excludeClasses=>["WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Layout"]});	06:36
@preaction	right	06:36
buu	So all I need to do is subclass this an add my own lineageiterator?	06:36
scrottie0	Postgres started doing fully recursive stuff somewhere in 8.x	06:37
scrottie0	you can solve minesweeper with it, render Mandlebrots, etc	06:37
@preaction	that might work, but it might be better to subclass that whole sub, or refactor that sub to have a "getAssetsToDisplay" or something that would be easier to subclass	06:37
@preaction	our old stuff wasn't very easily extensible	06:38
buu	preaction: Well, yes, but..	06:38
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@preaction	getLineageIterator is defined by the superclass, and it might be called by other things expecting certain behavior, is what i'm trying to say	06:39
buu	Just to re-iterate for myself, what I'm trying to solve here is my problem with A) Requiring all elements to be a child under something I can't change the display of	06:39
@preaction	you could switch the test of the show/hide assets thing pretty simply	06:39
buu	preaction: Yeah..	06:41
buu	if ($hidden{$assetId} \|\| ! $child->canView);	06:41
buu	Hrm.	06:43
@scrottie	Code::Splice in whatever you want.	06:43
buu	Hey, I remember that	06:44
buu	Hasn't someone murdered you for that yet?	06:44
@preaction	might want to keep your changes committed in your repo, and use git to checkout upgrades. i could fix the granularity of the layout and make this easy	06:44
@scrottie	no. typesafety.pm is what almost repeatedly got me murdered.	06:45
@scrottie	repeatedly almost got me murdered.	06:45
buu	haha	06:45
@preaction	oh god, you're not kidding. this exists	06:45
buu	haha	06:46
@scrottie	I was going around telling Python programmers that Perl was more OO. eventually someone did the same thing for Python and ruined my little troll there.	06:46
@scrottie	probably doesn't work right on recent perls. needs love.	06:47
@scrottie	think I did some work towards the end of 5.9.	06:47
@scrottie	the nit about my Whatever $foo not working got fixed and I think you can now do my Foo::Bar $whatever.	06:48
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+perlDreamer	preaction: do you prefer that WebGUI specific JS and CSS be file based, or asset based?	07:46
@preaction	file based	07:46
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+perlDreamer	preaction: is the ssh configuration the same on MacOS X as it is on Linux?	08:07
+perlDreamer	~/.ssh/config?	08:07
@preaction	yup	08:08
@preaction	wait, who's having trouble with that this time of night?	08:08
+perlDreamer	mck	08:08
+perlDreamer	how did you set her up for the last scp access to a server that she needed?	08:12
+perlDreamer	preaction?	08:12
@preaction	heh	08:12
@preaction	hehehe	08:12
@preaction	hehehehehehe	08:12
@preaction	HEEHEHEHEHEHEHE	08:12
+perlDreamer	HAHAHAHAHA ?	08:13
+perlDreamer	HOOHOOHOOHOOHOOHOOHOOO	08:13
@preaction	i talked her through setting up a key, then gave her two scp commands, one to put, one to pull	08:13
+perlDreamer	yup, she has old chat transcripts	08:13
@preaction	i tried like three other things before that, unfortunately	08:15
* perlDreamer didn't know that open would pop-up an editor		08:15
+perlDreamer	very handy :)	08:15
@preaction	open will open the default program for a file	08:15
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+bartjol	hey perldreamer can you join #procolix?	10:27
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SDuensin	FrIdAy!	17:10
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scrottie0	WebGUI is on a mission here to clobber ownerUserId. I can't find where this is in happening other than in www_add(). I can catch that and update it to what it should be afterwards. calling addChild with ownerUserId isn't enough. www_add() clobbers.	19:04
scrottie0	but I'm dealing with that.	19:04
scrottie0	what just caught me by surprise is www_editSave somehow clobbering it and this time, I don't see where in the code this hapens.	19:04
scrottie0	hints?	19:04
+bartjol	scrottie0 do you ever sleep?	19:09
+bartjol	but on the subject of your question, I don't know it directly	19:10
+bartjol	adter 5 hours of pulling network cable, code looks a bit.... alien	19:11
scrottie0	I am not proud of this past week.	19:11
+bartjol	well, the sdh stuff went well	19:12
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scrottie0	eeek, good night!	19:18
@preaction	scrottie0: processPropertiesFromFormPost is what updates the actual information in the new revision	19:48
scrottie0	yeah, didn't see anything in there that would do that. AssetVersioning.pm's addRevision has a default of 3 for new versions. that's my best lead.	19:54
scrottie0	https://gist.github.com/779981 ... trying to take a big hammer to it, I'm intercepting www_editSave. ownerUserId is correct before and after the normal www_editSave logic. but next time I look at the thing, eg with wgd, it says ownerUserId: 3	20:13
scrottie0	looks like intercepting www_editSave is unnecessary. that whole part of the request works as expected, preserving the ownerUserId. but then after that, something happens. to the best of my knowledge, it isn't set to use the clobberOwnerUserId workflow.	20:15
scrottie0	hrm, I wonder if www_add somehow gets called after that.	20:15
scrottie0	oh. I'm probably not diddling the new revision that got created.	20:17
scrottie0	duh.	20:17
@preaction	commit maybe?	20:17
scrottie0	a new version gets created with '3' instead of whatever.	20:18
scrottie0	and set published.	20:18
@preaction	right, but then processProperties should update that with the real one	20:18
@preaction	unless, the form doesn't ever give one	20:18
scrottie0	I have a rigged processPropertiesFromFormPost too but it probably isn't correct.	20:19
@preaction	then once editSave is done, it goes to spectre for commit()	20:20
scrottie0	it would be really nice if new versions of assets started as an exact copy of the previous one rather than counting on things to go through forms that probably shouldn't go through forms, like who owns the stupid thing.	20:30
scrottie0	anyway, got it, thanks for the consultation.	20:30
buu	Hrm	20:38
buu	"<tmpl_var head tags> : Place this tag between the <head> tags in your page. "	20:38
buu	Missing a period?	20:38
@preaction	yep	20:39
buu	all the tmpl vars referenced in the text appear to be missing dots	20:40
scrottie0	I know who did it!	20:48
scrottie0	Pac Man!	20:48
buu	Oh wait	20:59
buu	Can I like, ^include(/some/random/pageasset)	21:00
@preaction	^AssetProxy(some/random/pageasset) <- yep	21:00
buu	Ahh	21:00
buu	This might make the problem I was having yesterday considerably simpler.	21:00
buu	preaction: So can I make an article asset contain template code?	21:01
@preaction	that could be any asset as well	21:01
@preaction	not template code, but macros yes	21:01
@preaction	those are macros	21:01
buu	Oh um. What exactly is the difference?	21:01
@preaction	lib/WebGUI/Macro/* and the "macros" bit of the config file	21:01
buu	Aside from apparently where I can put it	21:01
buu	(As a side note I'm just really amused to see HTML::Template again, I haven't seen it in years)	21:02
@preaction	where you can put it and when it gets parsed. macros are always parsed absolutely last before the page is given to the user	21:02
@preaction	yeah, it's so legacy they're thinking about reviving Dynasty for it	21:02
buu	preaction: So is the only difference between a page layout and a folder how it displays its children?	21:03
@preaction	pretty much, yeah	21:03
buu	Hrm.	21:04
buu	preaction: You recall our earlier conversation where I was messing with folders and stuff, well, my brilliant idea is to just make the /Home thingy a regular Article, then make everything a child of that as normal, then I can just use ^AssetProxy in that article to make it look however I want	21:04
@preaction	the same could be said about many of the other assets too, Shelf displays only Products in a certain way. Collaboration displays only Threads in a certain way. Calendar displays Events in a certain way	21:05
buu	Yeah	21:05
@preaction	that might be a good idea	21:05
buu	preaction: My concern was basically wanting to be able to radically change how that 'front page' looked at any time	21:06
buu	While not losing any convenience of course	21:06
@preaction	frodwith made a way to include assets inside of TT templates without using macros (the macro parser is finicky, doesn't deal with commas or regular HTML inside of it well), one side-effect of his code is that you could indeed put template code in the article	21:06
@preaction	ahh	21:06
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@preaction	frodwith: did you ever merge that stuff? the Asset INCLUDE tt directive stuff?	21:07
+perlDreamer	yo homies	21:07
@preaction	wut up my dawg diggity	21:08
+perlDreamer	dawg is draggin badly	21:09
buu	Red dawg needs food badly?	21:10
+perlDreamer	sleep	21:11
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carogray1	about to board airplane, but are there any websites or examples you all know of that have any sort of "quiz" with instant answers?	22:38
buu	quiz?	22:42
carogray1	jorge lost his job last week, got a new job this week. Can he still get Unemployment insurance?	22:44
carogray1	a- yes	22:44
carogray1	b - no	22:44
carogray1	c he has to wait 3 weeks	22:44
carogray1	d none of the above	22:44
carogray1	user picks no	22:44
carogray1	website responds correct No he cannot get UI if he got another job right away	22:45
carogray1	or if user picks yes	22:45
carogray1	wrong! b is correct answer he cannot get UI if....	22:45
carogray1	oops! boarding - should be in Las Vegas in a couple of hours if anyone has an answer CRobinson@mlri.org, please and thank you.	22:55
buu	I'm so confused	22:56
@preaction	carogray1: Survey might do it	22:56
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sbaur	anyone have an email address for carogray1? This is what we do on our math success site. But I don't think I'll be online next time they are	23:23
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+perlDreamer	sbaur, you can see if her account on webgui.org supports private messages	23:33
+perlDreamer	but she posted her address above	23:33
+perlDreamer	CRobinson@mlri.org	23:33
sbaur	ah thanks, I must have missed that when i went to lunch :)	23:34
sbaur	or, I am just blind :-)	23:35
+perlDreamer	ah, it's Friday	23:36
buu	Hrm. Why can't the source isntall have sbin/addsite.pl?	23:41
+perlDreamer	because addsite.pl does things specific to the WRE	23:42
+perlDreamer	like setting up modperl and modproxy configurations and stuff	23:42
+perlDreamer	what would be a great wgd tool, however, if it just added a new site and database	23:42
buu	Yeah..	23:43
@preaction	and 8's WebGUI::Command will have one	23:46
Haarg	it's something i've wanted to make for a while but never got around to	23:52
buu	Man	23:56
buu	I love the complete lack of xml configuration	23:56
@preaction	xml is a failed experiment	23:56
Haarg	xml makes sense for some things, but config files are not one of them	23:57
buu	I mostly agree, but it's abused more than it has to be	23:57
--- Day changed Sat Jan 15 2011
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buu	OH MY GOD WORKFLOW WORKFLOWS	00:10
buu	Giant workflow umls	00:11
+perlDreamer	workflows are good buu, really	00:16
buu	perlDreamer: I am terrified	00:17
buu	If this was the first thing I saw I'd run screaming	00:17
+perlDreamer	that's why it's tucked into the Admin Console	00:17
buu	Haha	00:27
buu	This section has a warning against putting your websevers on a hub	00:27
buu	When was this written?	00:27
+perlDreamer	what section, buu?	00:29
buu	http://www.webgui.org/user-guides/webgui-administrators-guide/webgui-administrators-guide/performance-tuning	00:29
+perlDreamer	2-3 years ago	00:29
buu	When was the last time you saw a hub?	00:31
+perlDreamer	I have a hub in my office	00:32
sbaur	buu, I've got a USB hub right here on my desk ;-)	00:32
buu	=O	00:32
scrottie0	I have a hub.	00:32
buu	Of course you have a hub.	00:33
scrottie0	5 port D-Link 10mbps with the 5th port settable to uplink.	00:33
buu	It's probably mounted on your brontosaurus	00:33
buu	So you can watch polo	00:33
scrottie0	hey man don't diss on brontosaurus polo! that stuff's fun!	00:33
buu	I would never dream of it.	00:34
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buu	"However, if your site has forums, or lots of content, then the database cache will be the winner."	00:35
@preaction	actually, if you have 7.9 or higher, the CHI FastMMap cache will win	00:36
buu	Seems reasonable	00:36
scrottie0	turn the cache off and put your mysql database on a filesystem built on /dev/shm. way faster.	00:36
buu	So is everything related to logging controlled by apache + log.conf?	00:40
@preaction	yes	00:42
buu	And uh	00:43
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buu	preaction: So the does the [Style Template] automatically apply to its children or merely inherited on creation or does it have something to do with the initial style setting?	00:45
@preaction	changing the style template of one asset won't change its children's. you'd have to use an Edit Branch to do that	00:46
buu	preaction: So is it set when you create it?	00:46
buu	Or is it a 'all assets get this template'	00:46
@preaction	yeah, it guesses based on the parent	00:46
buu	Hrmmmmmmmmm	00:47
@preaction	same with group to edit and group to view	00:47
buu	Ah	00:48
buu	preaction: So, inherited on creation, right.	00:48
@preaction	yeah, but not updated	00:48
buu	Right	00:48
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buu	Hrm	03:31
+perlDreamer	yes?	03:37
buu	Is there someway to see what elements a navigation item will match?	03:38
+perlDreamer	you mean, aside from using the navigation?	03:39
+perlDreamer	or, a preview?	03:39
buu	Yes	03:39
buu	perlDreamer: I have a a regular asset tree, Root, then children: Import, Media, and Home	03:40
+perlDreamer	okay	03:40
buu	Now Home is an Article has a couple of children	03:40
+perlDreamer	k	03:40
buu	I want my nav to display all of the first level descendents as a menu	03:41
+perlDreamer	All children (not descendants) of the Article?	03:42
buu	Descendents of Home	03:42
+perlDreamer	in WebGUI, immediate descendants (first level) we call children	03:42
+perlDreamer	so, in the nav	03:42
buu	Yes..	03:42
+perlDreamer	set a specific URL	03:42
buu	Yes..	03:42
+perlDreamer	set it to /home	03:42
buu	Yes...	03:43
+perlDreamer	set no ancestors	03:43
+perlDreamer	set descendants to 1 level	03:43
buu	I have it set to Specific Url, Start Point: /home; Descendents; End Point: Infinity.	03:44
buu	And I only see one link in the nav	03:44
buu	'Home'	03:44
+perlDreamer	do the children have "Hide from navigation" set to Yes?	03:44
buu	Oh uh	03:44
+perlDreamer	is that like Uhoh backwards?	03:45
* perlDreamer is being called to dinner		03:45
buu	Yes =[	03:45
buu	Sadness!	03:45
+perlDreamer	you can use Edit Branch to change that	03:45
+perlDreamer	bbiaw	03:45
buu	=]	03:45
buu	Thanks	03:45
buu	How do I construct File macros?	04:10
@preaction	^FileUrl(url/to/asset); <- replaced with the url to the file in /uploads, so like:	04:13
@preaction	<img src="^FileUrl(url/to/asset);" />	04:13
buu	Right right	04:18
buu	Sorry, I mean, how do I construct the url	04:19
buu	Or do I literally use the url	04:19
buu	heh	04:19
+perlDreamer	you literally use the URL	04:29
+perlDreamer	it's pretty straight forwrd	04:29
buu	=]	04:30
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scrottie0	still at it you two...	06:34
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buu	We are?	08:16
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buu	Ha	23:49
buu	Anyone know what this macro is: ^a("View My Account","style-underground/templates/view-my-account");	23:49
buu	And while I'm at it: <a href="<tmpl_var toggle.url>"><tmpl_var toggle.text></a>	23:50
buu	(Also: freenode is retarded)	23:51
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buu	perlDreamer: Hey	23:56
+perlDreamer	yo buu	23:56
+perlDreamer	what's up?	23:56
buu	Anyone know what this macro is: ^a("View My Account","style-underground/templates/view-my-account"); <	23:56
+perlDreamer	that is the account macro	23:56
+perlDreamer	It displays some smart links to the user based on being logged in or not	23:57
+perlDreamer	"View My Account" is some text to show	23:57
buu	Ah	23:57
+perlDreamer	and the urly kind of thing is the url of a custom style template to use instead of the custom one	23:57
+perlDreamer	it's probably documented on the wiki	23:57
buu	I looked!	23:57
buu	It wasn't under the "variables and macros" section	23:57
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/wiki/macros-list-of-available	23:58
+perlDreamer	there's a link to the account macro in there	23:58
--- Day changed Sun Jan 16 2011
buu	Oh, that wiki.	00:00
+perlDreamer	ya, that's the original, user contributed wiki	00:01
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buu	Oh! There it is.	00:07
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buu	So what's a Wobject::Thingy	02:02
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@scrottie	I was told to stay clear of it, and so far I've done a really good job of that.	08:29
@preaction	it's a kind of db builder for users. like phpmyadmin, but not as straightforward. a little convoluted	08:36
scrottie0	way to kill the sense of mystery. jerk.	08:46
@preaction	by making it less of a mystery, i can say "fix it" and you can't be all like "but it's big and ominous and brooding! my mind can't take it!"	08:50
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buu	Thingy is a phpadmin!?	12:04
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scrottie0	buu, how's it going?	23:24
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--- Day changed Mon Jan 17 2011
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+perlDreamer	preaction: ping	00:18
+perlDreamer	hola, howdy, bienvenetu	00:18
* scrottie0 waves hello		00:19
+perlDreamer	yo scrottie0	00:19
+perlDreamer	scrottie0, could you please lend me 1 sunny-type day so I can take down my Christmas lights and stay dry?	00:21
scrottie0	hrm. sounds like a good reason to leave them up.	00:22
+perlDreamer	I did that last year	00:22
scrottie0	oh noes, the in-flight Internets are going to be automatically turned off	00:22
+perlDreamer	it ruins the plastic hooks	00:22
+perlDreamer	you're flying?	00:22
* scrottie0 nods		00:22
scrottie0	against my better judgement.	00:22
+perlDreamer	oh noes!	00:22
+perlDreamer	you could take the train	00:22
scrottie0	yeah, I'll have to talk to Jamie about that option.	00:23
scrottie0	a line runs from Flagstaff to Chichago and that's a major hub	00:23
+perlDreamer	if you can get to portage, it's only 25 miles from Madison	00:24
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scrottie0	d	06:25
scrottie0	I have no evidence to support this assertion, but I'm pretty sure this place is haunted.	06:31
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+perlDreamer	bartjol, today you get merged!	19:19
+perlDreamer	maybe even right now, or quite soon	19:19
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+bartjol	woohioo	19:22
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+bartjol	had a good noght sleepafter thursday night?	19:23
+perlDreamer	it was very, very late	19:27
+bartjol	perlDreamer: sorry for the comaprison typ-o, allthough it is almost a word	19:27
+perlDreamer	I like the word "comaprison"	19:28
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CIA-112	wrebuild: BartJol master * rf8b6ffe / wre/sbin/backup.pl : removing files at low rotations after backup and copytoremote - http://bit.ly/ih2bP6	19:57
CIA-112	wrebuild: BartJol master * r78614b1 / wre/sbin/backup.pl : fixed syntax error - http://bit.ly/hufW8i	19:57
CIA-112	wrebuild: BartJol master * r1e1e873 / wre/sbin/backup.pl : rotation comaprison numerical instead of string - http://bit.ly/eNQ776	19:57
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+perlDreamer	note to self, an 11-year old, in the kitchen, unsupevised, is an invitation for "post activity all kitchen clean-up"	21:34
+perlDreamer	you'd think it'd be difficult to get flour and cake batter above the 5' mark, but you'd be wrong	21:35
@preaction	fun!	21:35
+perlDreamer	I thought you were in an all-day meeting?	21:35
@preaction	yeah, still talking meeting thinging	21:35
+perlDreamer	how was lunch?	21:36
+perlDreamer	Did Mckenzie bring boots, or did JT have to give her a piggy-back ride	21:36
@preaction	scrottie can pack away an entire serving of Great Dane Macaroni and Cheese, and still want more	21:36
@preaction	and yep, but no hat. they don't have hats in texas	21:36
+perlDreamer	no hats?	21:40
+perlDreamer	not even those great big 10 gallon things?	21:40
@preaction	nope. that's all arizona	21:41
buu	Haha	21:43
buu	It's true, I never see hats here	21:43
+perlDreamer	I hate that I used to write bad code	21:46
+perlDreamer	and no amount of minesweeper playing makes that go away	21:46
scrottie0	I have a "You are Stupid and Evil and Do Not Know That You Are Stupid and Evil" sticker on my laptop. it's for me.	21:48
scrottie0	if I can look back over these years and think, "boy was that dumb", how could I possibily draw the conclusion that that's no longer the case?	21:49
+perlDreamer	in the relative sense, it must be true, the problem is that in the absolute sense it's not good enough to only be less dumb than you used to be	21:49
scrottie0	smartness isn't just defined by in terms of an optimisation problem. you can find an optimal route through a maze... through the universe though? through life?	21:50
@preaction	you don't win, you just do a little better each time	21:52
+perlDreamer	ah, but what if you believe in the 1-hot theory of existence?	21:52
CIA-112	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r889b2bc / (4 files in 4 dirs): Refix the Friend Manager pagination. Fixes bug #11965 - http://bit.ly/hU8dqg	22:00
CIA-112	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r1a0f299 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Refix the Friend Manager pagination. Fixes bug #11965 - http://bit.ly/hWqw09	22:03
CIA-112	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r05af179 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Move upgrade packages to the correct locations for the 7.9 branch. - http://bit.ly/hvh8Jt	22:03
+perlDreamer	preaction: did you close all the calendar bugs that you fixed?	22:05
@preaction	yes	22:05
@preaction	so if i were to add a json api for assets, would it be .json at the end if and only if the asset url does not already end with .json?	22:10
@preaction	or i could just expect assetUrl.json, even if assetUrl = something.json (so something.json.json)	22:11
scrottie0	even if.	22:15
@preaction	backwards compatibility and past expectations leaves everyone mad	22:15
scrottie0	perhaps the upgrader should fail if there exist any assets named *.json so that their behavior doesn't change.	22:21
+perlDreamer	how about using :json instead of .json?	22:27
+perlDreamer	I think we should take over the .json namespace, but who knows what custom code or assets may be out there	22:27
* perlDreamer is out for lunch		22:27
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qwebirc83626	I have over 400 members from approx 20 teams. Navigation - a link to each team = display list with all team members and other relevant team info. Can this be automated?	00:05
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qwbec123987	where is apache config file located on the webgui virtual appliance?	00:09
@preaction	qwbec123987: for your first question, you can use Thingy to manage the database of that if you want, or you can use SQLReport to grab the user/group data from the webgui database	00:20
@preaction	for your second question, /data/wre/etc contains all the apache confs	00:20
qwebirc83626	Team members are not WebGUI users.	00:27
@preaction	then Thingy is probably what you want	00:30
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qwebirc83626	Saw WebGUI user guide. Can I create new display forms for Thingy?	00:38
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@preaction	you should be able to, yes. it should be a template	00:40
qwebirc83626	This template, is it similar to taking a system template and re-naming it as your own?	00:42
@preaction	you should start with that, yes	00:43
qwebirc83626	Then my only concern is the Thingy database. I'm not familiar with databases. I will probably start with the example in the user guide and then modify to taste. Is there a faster way?	00:48
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@preaction	not especially, it's a db by any other name	00:57
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qwebirc83626	How can Thingy asset be available to the public? No login.	01:23
@preaction	make sure the Thing's group to view is Everyone, not Visitors or Registered Users	01:29
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qwebirc83626	Should I create a thing for each 'thing'? ex. Teams (ttl 20), Managers (ttl 20), Captains (ttl 20), Players (400+)	01:43
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@preaction	probably just Teams and Players, where Teams has three Player fields for Members, Managers, and Captains	01:46
qwebirc83626	What if a manager isn't a player. There are some such cases.	01:54
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+perlDreamer	dinner time, l8r all	03:01
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CIA-112	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r11674da / docs/create.sql : Ready for 7.9.20 release. - http://bit.ly/dJXpHy	06:59
CIA-112	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r105df4e / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.21 development. - http://bit.ly/hL0u1r	07:28
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--- Log closed Tue Jan 18 16:09:50 2011
--- Log opened Tue Jan 18 16:52:41 2011
SDuensin	Morning.	16:52
+bartjol	howdy	16:53
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+perlDreamer	bartjol, you're merged!	17:57
+bartjol	ah, I felt differnt this morning	17:58
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qwebirc50982	I have a Thingy that I need help setting up. I know what data I would like retrieved but don't know how many things to setup and what fields to create. How do I go about requesting such help?	19:07
+perlDreamer	When you come into most IRC channels, the best thing to do is just state the entire problem and wait for someone to give you an answer.	19:07
+perlDreamer	You could also try asking on the WebGUI forums, since a different audience reads those.	19:08
qwebirc50982	I think I need more help than these services offers - and it wouldn't be fair. It's best that I be recommended other channels	19:11
+perlDreamer	well, you can buy support from the company that makes WebGUI, Plain Black.	19:14
+perlDreamer	Their website is www.plainblack.com	19:14
+perlDreamer	on webgui.org there is a listing of other WebGUI partners as well, so you can research other providers	19:15
+perlDreamer	time for me to head off to the gym, I'll be back later	19:15
* perlDreamer is back		20:28
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+perlDreamer	crap, the Cwd module doesn't handle UTF-8 very well	21:27
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stDavid	Hi perlDreamer: Off the top of your head, do you know the name of dionak 's company?	23:55
+perlDreamer	knowmad technologies	23:55
stDavid	Oh, yes - Thank you very much	23:56
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andyiomoon	ping perlDreamer	00:52
+perlDreamer	pong andyiomoon	01:09
andyiomoon	howdy colin - are you able to pop into skype chat?	01:14
+perlDreamer	yup, for about 20 minutes or so	01:15
* perlDreamer steps out to pick up the kiddos from choir after school		01:34
+perlDreamer	Group question	02:17
+perlDreamer	WebGUI supports UTF-8 URLs now, and they're sent without URL escaping	02:17
+perlDreamer	so that you can see things like Viel_Spa�.txt	02:17
+perlDreamer	Would it be a problem if the UTF-8 character started being escaped?	02:18
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buu	Rawr	05:46
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buu	Hrm	05:48
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+perlDreamer	hack on, buu	05:55
buu	perlDreamer: I am no longer k-lined	05:55
buu	This is a good thing	05:55
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CIA-112	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rac3533c / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix UTF-8 handling in WebGUI::Storage class. Add tests for all methods that were checked. Fixes bug #12023. - http://bit.ly/e1XAG2	07:07
CIA-112	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r49063cf / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix UTF-8 handling in WebGUI::Storage class. Add tests for all methods that were checked. Fixes bug #12023. - http://bit.ly/gGRQsn	07:07
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SDuensin	Blah.	16:42
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+bartjol	SDuensin: no, wednesday	17:08
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@preaction_	good morning WebGUI!	17:59
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+bartjol	eeeh, you're attitude to WebGUI is as a veteran's to vietnam?	18:15
+bartjol	your	18:15
SDuensin	Yes. Keep your head down.	18:16
@preaction_	and remember to shave with cold water to help keep your skin smooth	18:18
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+perlDreamer	Did I miss something?	18:24
@preaction_	good morning WebGUI!	18:24
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+perlDreamer	whoa, you almost broke the sound barrier with that one	18:25
+perlDreamer	preaction_: I'd love to discuss http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/12024 for a bit	18:35
+perlDreamer	if you duplicate posts, threads or CS'es, then many emails can be sent out when the newly created assets are committed.	18:36
@preaction_	this should have been fixed, that's what skipNotifications as an argument to addChild/addRevision to it	18:37
+perlDreamer	I see, it's there, but not used.	18:37
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@preaction_	is shared IP not a recommended way to do HA clustering anymore/	18:52
+perlDreamer	do you mean using a front-end proxy/balancer?	18:53
@preaction_	no, two boxes that can each take control of an IP based on which one is still operational. one node goes unresponsive, and the second node can assume the old node's IP address	18:54
+perlDreamer	sounds evil, doesn't it drive the routers crazy?	18:55
@preaction_	that might be why i can't find much in the way of recent docs about it	18:55
@preaction_	but, i suppose if they're in EC2, they could use heartbeat attached to the amazon ec2 API to change the elastic IP of the box in question	18:56
@preaction_	the idea being that the box will go down, but we have to recover it	18:57
+perlDreamer	I see, for failover instead of scaling	18:57
@preaction_	right	18:58
+perlDreamer	this is where bartjol wakes up and shares deep insights from his experience with Procolix	18:58
+bartjol	?	18:58
+perlDreamer	any comments on HA clustering?	18:58
+bartjol	well, WebGUI and multiple mysql nodes for scaling aren't exactly freinds	18:59
@preaction_	scaling is nice, but it's failover that's the main issue	18:59
@preaction_	right, which is why clusterIP comes in	18:59
@preaction_	you COULD do multimaster and have a script that alters the WebGUI config	18:59
+bartjol	yeah, I call it a virtual IP	18:59
@preaction_	OR you could set up a local proxy to the mysql server which can be changed to whatever mysql server is up	19:00
@preaction_	using netcat or whatever	19:00
+bartjol	well, you can still have a read and write IP	19:00
+bartjol	and those can switch	19:00
@preaction_	yeah, but webgui only writes to one, ever	19:00
+bartjol	that is true	19:01
+bartjol	those IP can be virtual, so not tied to physical virtal machines	19:01
+bartjol	(or physical machines)	19:02
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advancedalarmtec	if we want to host a non-webgui site on a machine with the wre installation where would I put the file containing the virtualhost information? Also, does the file have to have a specific name such as site10.conf or site10.modperl ect.	19:08
+bartjol	it has to be *.modproxy and be put in the wre/etc dir	19:08
+bartjol	you will use the WebGUI apache, but that is ok	19:09
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advancedalarmtec	thank you bartjol, that got me going!	19:21
+bartjol	no problem	19:22
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advancedalarmtec	is there a reason there's no httpd.conf file located in /data/wre/etc on the webgui virtual appliance?	19:53
advancedalarmtec	without it you can't run the apachectl command	19:53
+perlDreamer	which version of the appliance, advancealarmtec?	19:55
+perlDreamer	I guess the question doesn't matter	19:56
+perlDreamer	the WRE uses 2 apache configuration files	19:56
+perlDreamer	so if you want to use apachectl instead of wreservice.pl, then you have to tell it which one to use via a command-line switch	19:57
advancedalarmtec	7.8.24	19:57
+perlDreamer	that would be your WebGUI version	19:57
+perlDreamer	so it must be the new, beta appliance	19:57
advancedalarmtec	all I did was create a blank httpd.conf file in the /wre/etc folder and it was able to run the apachectl command	19:58
+perlDreamer	sure, but did it do anything useful?	19:59
+perlDreamer	preaction, any particular reason that the Post wasn't updated to use Subscribable?	20:01
+perlDreamer	bandwidth, bad idea, ...?	20:01
advancedalarmtec	I'm not sure yet :) ultimately I'm trying to figure out how to enable ProxyPass and ProxyPassReverse so I can forward mail.site1.com to my mail server. I was trying to get apachectl to show me the list of loaded modules which is when I found out that it wouldn't run because there was no httpd.conf file locate din /data/wre/etc	20:02
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@preaction_	perlDreamer: time constraints maybe? backcompat?	20:09
+perlDreamer	advancealarmtec, the modules are different for the two apache binaries	20:09
+perlDreamer	so it's better to pass it a config file so you know the right one :)	20:10
+perlDreamer	preaction_: there are bad bugs relating to skipNotification in the CS, using Subscribable would fix them, I think...	20:10
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@preaction_	perlDreamer: iirc it was time constraints, as long as the API remains, it should work just fine	20:15
+perlDreamer	what, me, change APIs? :)	20:15
@preaction_	no no no no no nonononono yes	20:15
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advancedalarmtec	thanks perlDreamer I've got it working now	20:28
+perlDreamer	awesome!	20:41
sbaur	preaction_: I seem to recognize that line from the Vicar of Dibly character...	20:42
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@preaction_	and of course, though the WRE compiles on OSX 10.6 and Ubuntu x64, it does not compile on Centos 5.5 x64...	22:29
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@preaction_	ah, because i have an older version of autoconf that comes with centos 5.5 and one program expects a newer version...	22:57
+perlDreamer	live by the autoconf...	23:02
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+perlDreamer	morning, andyiomoon1	23:27
andyiomoon1	hello perlDreamer	23:28
andyiomoon1	looks like my machine has been connecting/disconnecting all night	23:28
andyiomoon1	apologies for the spam :)	23:28
+perlDreamer	eh, it happens	23:28
+perlDreamer	preaction_: if version tags are optional in 8, is ->commit still called on every asset?	23:30
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@preaction_	presently yes, but not automatically	23:30
andyiomoon1	I'll be heading into work shortly perlDreamer - we can catch up on bugs after that if you like	23:30
+perlDreamer	Scotty is going to be looking at the bugs	23:31
andyiomoon1	ok	23:31
andyiomoon1	ciao for now then	23:31
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* perlDreamer steps out to pick up kids at school		23:32
+perlDreamer	if I'm lucky, I'll just bring home my own	23:32
@preaction_	so apparently some make clean do not make clean enough, and a compiled config file then bitches about being built for a different autoconf	23:40
@preaction_	seriously. i mean ... seriously...	23:40
+perlDreamer	which wonderful piece of software is that?	23:58
--- Day changed Thu Jan 20 2011
@preaction_	gnutls and libxml both	00:02
@preaction_	and then mod_perl2 didn't autodetect that it needed -fPIC	00:02
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+perlDreamer	oh boy	00:13
+perlDreamer	preaction_: you're going to love this one	00:13
@preaction_	ooooh	00:13
+perlDreamer	skipNotification gets passed into duplicate	00:13
+perlDreamer	but it's never used	00:13
@preaction_	ahh fun	00:13
+perlDreamer	and, once set, it's never cleared	00:13
+perlDreamer	well, once set in the database, it's never cleared	00:13
@preaction_	wait, shouldn't that be done by the Subscribable aspect overriding those things?	00:13
+perlDreamer	i'll check for the wiki and the other places that use it	00:14
+perlDreamer	but it's not done that way for the CS and associated sub-assets	00:14
+perlDreamer	and I understand why you didn't do it for the CS	00:17
+perlDreamer	we'd have to port over all the groups, and templates into the Aspect	00:17
+perlDreamer	and remove them from the asset	00:17
@preaction_	ahhh, yeah, time constraints	00:18
+perlDreamer	it sounds like a good 8 task	00:18
@preaction_	if it were in the Subscribable aspect, we'd have an awersome Account plugin for "Subscription Manager"	00:18
+perlDreamer	can I add it to the list?	00:18
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+perlDreamer	hang on	00:33
+perlDreamer	duplicateBranch hardcodes skipNotification = 1	00:33
+perlDreamer	but duplicate allows it to be unset?	00:33
+perlDreamer	shouldn't it always be 1, regardless of the method	00:34
@preaction_	maybe? the subscribable aspect should probably set it, yes	00:34
CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbce5e6a / lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/Subscribable.pm : Subscribable aspect dies if addRevision is called without a hashref of new properties for the new revision. - http://bit.ly/i0kI2d	00:38
+perlDreamer	all righty, let's try this on for size	00:38
+perlDreamer	a regular asset calls duplicate with skipNotification => 1	00:39
+perlDreamer	duplicate calls addRevision with skipNotification => 1	00:39
+perlDreamer	skipNotification is set for the asset in the db	00:39
+perlDreamer	the asset is committed, and skipNotification is never, ever cleared again	00:39
+perlDreamer	an asset with Subscribable calls duplicate with skipNotification => 1	00:40
+perlDreamer	Subscribable subclasses duplicate the subscriptionGroup	00:41
+perlDreamer	duplicate calls addRev with skipNotification => 1	00:41
+perlDreamer	Subscribable subclasses addRev to turn off skipNotification in the asset properties so it isn't propagated forever	00:42
+perlDreamer	and then everything works as advertised	00:42
+perlDreamer	but why not just turn off skipNotification in the db in commit?	00:42
@preaction_	i was thinking that it'd be an indicator that the notification did not go out for that revision	00:49
+perlDreamer	I see, so persisting it is a good idea	00:49
@preaction_	well, if people want that ability	00:50
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+perlDreamer	I'm going to document it in the Aspect, so we know why it does that	00:52
+perlDreamer	really, I think it's a good idea	00:52
+perlDreamer	if people ask why a notifiation wasn't set, now you can check	00:53
@preaction_	yeah	00:53
CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rca54f43 / lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/Subscribable.pm : Document how skipNotification is handled by the Aspect. - http://bit.ly/gYUHXG	00:55
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CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8c2958b / (3 files in 3 dirs): Do not send emails when a Post or Thread is copied inside WebGUI. Fixes bug #12024. - http://bit.ly/gf3EzZ	04:44
CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rcb6537e / lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/Subscribable.pm : Subscribable aspect dies if addRevision is called without a hashref of new properties for the new revision. - http://bit.ly/fSPlmk	04:45
CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * ra8b5b65 / lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/Subscribable.pm : Document how skipNotification is handled by the Aspect. - http://bit.ly/gSVjlY	04:45
CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r7d6bb2c / (3 files in 3 dirs): Do not send emails when a Post or Thread is copied inside WebGUI. Fixes bug #12024. - http://bit.ly/gdsWbE	04:45
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+perlDreamer	preaction: you can't create forms inside of forms, can you?	05:08
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@preaction	and like so many things, now that we've built one for WebGUI, I find one on CPAN: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Package-DeprecationManager/lib/Package/DeprecationManager.pm	18:23
+bartjol	mmm	18:25
+bartjol	so , will it be replaced?	18:26
@preaction	probably not, it's a very simple system, WebGUI::Deprecate	18:27
@preaction	it's indeed almost the exact same system	18:27
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+perlDreamer	congrats, preaction: you got picked up by PerlBuzz's news roll-up	18:30
@preaction	oooooh	18:30
* perlDreamer sits back and watches the new perl developers pop-in		18:32
@preaction	there's been a few new people on the bug list and forums i've noticed	18:33
+perlDreamer	ya	18:38
+bartjol	new people, aaaah	18:38
+perlDreamer	7.10 doesn't go stable for a while, yes?	18:39
* perlDreamer is wondering when we should put out a new VM		18:39
@preaction	right. we're keeping 7.10 beta until 8.0 goes new beta	18:39
+bartjol	oh, I thought there was to be a 7.11	18:39
@preaction	it isn't in the cards, no	18:40
+perlDreamer	bartjol, we like old perl developers, too	18:40
+bartjol	well, I don't develop that much	18:42
+bartjol	I just critize the results of the activities of developers :)	18:42
+perlDreamer	we like that too ;)	18:43
+perlDreamer	if you feel bad about it, you can take us sailing in Madison some time	18:43
+bartjol	well, bug reporting isn't that bad	18:43
+bartjol	well, last time I tried to sail in Madison, we didn't	18:43
+perlDreamer	you sank?	18:44
+bartjol	no we just didn't go to the boat	18:45
+bartjol	there was too much waves and wind for the dingy	18:45
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym while thinking about session->style->userStyle and sendHeader		19:13
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@preaction	hmm... brand-new install of 7.9.20 requires Monkey::Patch, but it's marked as "optional" in testEnvironment.pl	20:19
@preaction	or... maybe it's just the tests that require it and i'm an idiot	20:20
* perlDreamer git blames frodwith		20:23
@preaction	i suppose with all these vms on my mac, i could almost put out a new WRE version :p	20:24
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@preaction	i can assume a released tarball should pass all tests, right?	20:31
+perlDreamer	no	20:31
@preaction	so that if it fails, it's my env... oh	20:31
+perlDreamer	some tests may fail due to extra installed languages	20:31
@preaction	ahh	20:31
@preaction	none of those here, just a vanilla 7.9.20	20:31
+perlDreamer	7.9.20 has 4 languages	20:31
+perlDreamer	spanish, english, bartjolian and German	20:32
+perlDreamer	in the tarballs	20:32
@preaction	the tests don't ... oh right because those are added to the tarballs afterward, they aren't in the repo	20:32
+perlDreamer	yup	20:32
+perlDreamer	when we can mix repos, then it'll be easier to test that kind of stuff	20:32
@preaction	well, test run almost done, so we'll see how this wre does	20:33
+perlDreamer	btw, I still think the translation server is down	20:33
@preaction	most likely	20:33
+perlDreamer	in the WebGUI content cycle, who is responsible for calling $session->http->sendHeader?	20:33
@preaction	usually, if you're writing directly to output yourself instead of returning output, you must call it yourself	20:34
@preaction	otherwise, it will eventually be called by the asset content handler, iirc	20:34
@preaction	but yeah, the end result is before any output is sent, it must have been called	20:40
+perlDreamer	wouldn't it be cool if a www method could associate a method for checking permissions to run it?	20:41
@preaction	i could see a reason to say "oh, you're calling ->session->output->print? i'll call sendHeader since you forgot you ninny" but then you could never not call it	20:41
+perlDreamer	then we could introspect it at the caller level and put all that in just 1 place	20:42
+perlDreamer	since it seems to be missing from place to place	20:42
@preaction	yes, i want that as part of any Asset::Declarative DSL	20:42
@preaction	wtf, did my test twitter creds get revoked?	20:43
+perlDreamer	I think so	20:43
+perlDreamer	they don't seem to like automated twitter tests	20:43
@preaction	... sigh...	20:44
+perlDreamer	same thing happens when installing the core Net::Twitter module	20:44
+perlDreamer	maybe they need dev accounts for stuff like this?	20:44
@preaction	the app still shows up in twitter.com...	20:46
@preaction	the key and secret are the same	20:46
@preaction	huh... weird	20:46
+perlDreamer	addChild sets the HTTP status	20:46
@preaction	yeah that should probably stop :p	20:47
@preaction	if we responded specially to a PUT request to create a resource, then that could set the http "added" code	20:47
* perlDreamer is beginning to understand the desire to completely rewrite software		20:48
@preaction	yeah, JT's had some awesome ideas on a CMS philosophy that i've started stretching and warping into a practical set of concerns	20:51
@preaction	imagine a set of CMS applications that work as Plack/PSGI apps, but also work as plugins to an administrative system that lets them work side-by-side	20:52
+perlDreamer	72 hours?	20:54
@preaction	yeah, right?	20:54
CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r973363b / (4 files in 4 dirs): Enforce viewing permissions for search and keywords in the Wiki. Fixes bug #12027 - http://bit.ly/eR2KT8	21:22
CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r4174b06 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Enforce viewing permissions for search and keywords in the Wiki. Fixes bug #12027 - http://bit.ly/hqDQH6	21:23
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@preaction	perlDreamer: that WRE as promised: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/226725/wre-latest-centos5.5-x64.tar.gz	21:52
+perlDreamer	ooooooh	21:52
+perlDreamer	kudos, dude	21:52
+perlDreamer	are we doing to do a release?	21:53
@preaction	a WRE release? not yet, i'll keep building them as-needed	21:53
+perlDreamer	cool	21:54
@preaction	the prereqs i just posted to the forums have all the modules needed, but the wre doesn't yet assemble the entire perl module prereq set, which is why i don't want to release	21:54
+perlDreamer	that makes good sense	21:54
+perlDreamer	someone just said, 'Thank you' for fixing a bug	21:55
+perlDreamer	that was so awesome, I think I'm going to go eat some lunch	21:55
@preaction	nice	21:55
qwebirc38317	Re. - Story Manager as CNN. I'm trying to add a story to the home page. Which story manager template do I duplicate?	22:02
@preaction	the home page should be a Story Topic asset	22:02
qwebirc38317	How do I get images in the story -- the story topic template doesn't have any templ_vars	22:06
@preaction	that's a new feature in the 7.10 series, iirc	22:07
qwebirc38317	The WebGUI TV video/pdf - Story Manager as CNN, doesn't distinguish WebGUI version. I'm on the current 7.10 beta and I see no other available templates or changes within available templates.	22:17
@preaction	they're not being used in the templates. maybe it's just the archive itself that has those in it by default	22:18
@preaction	i dunno, perlDreamer could answer, as he did the main dev on it	22:18
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+perlDreamer	i didn't add the new feature to 7.10 that makes those variables available in the Story Topic, but I can confirm what preaction is saying	23:01
+perlDreamer	they're not in the default templates	23:01
+perlDreamer	if you want them, qwebirc38317, you'll need to make some custom templates	23:02
* perlDreamer is off to pick up kids and run some errands		23:34
+perlDreamer	bbiaw	23:34
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qwebirc38317	Are there plans to include these variables in future builds?	00:44
@preaction	what do you mean?	00:48
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qwebirc38317	<+perlDreamer> i didn't add the new feature to 7.10 that makes those variables available in the Story Topic	00:51
+perlDreamer	yessir?	00:51
+perlDreamer	but the Story Manager is my baby	00:51
@preaction	he didn't add them, but there are in there	00:52
@preaction	someone else added them, is what he meant	00:53
+perlDreamer	ya, that's it	00:53
+perlDreamer	apparently today my Englishis as poor as my javascript, HTML and CSS all put together...	00:54
qwebirc38317	I like this feature. Will these 'custom template' ever get included in story manager / where do I begin to create them?	01:03
+perlDreamer	preaction: 2nd set of eyes, please? http://gist.github.com/788893	01:05
+perlDreamer	qwebirc, you would make a copy of the default template and add in the custom code	01:05
@preaction	yep, looks correct	01:06
+perlDreamer	I suggest you spend some time looking in the webgui wiki (http://www.webgui.org/wiki) for basics on templating	01:06
+perlDreamer	thanks dood	01:06
andyiomoon1	ping scrottie0	01:06
CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1c3b242 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Event.pm): Hide ending recurrent fields that are not used. Fixes bug #12020. - http://bit.ly/enM08o	01:07
CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r06fc3f4 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Event.pm): Hide ending recurrent fields that are not used. Fixes bug #12020. - http://bit.ly/hcllM5	01:08
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CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r62a4c5e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Force a foreground color for the calendar event view template. Fixes bug #11991. - http://bit.ly/hjlJii	01:25
CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r3e18815 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Force a foreground color for the calendar event view template. Fixes bug #11991. - http://bit.ly/dEEaU2	01:25
CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r48c834e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Move the border property from the body in the CSS for the View Event template to the surrounding table. Fixes bug #11990. - http://bit.ly/eJOjVU	01:36
CIA-27	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rcb8ae86 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Move the border property from the body in the CSS for the View Event template to the surrounding table. Fixes bug #11990. - http://bit.ly/hzAqNi	01:37
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+perlDreamer	later all	01:43
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SDuensin	FrIdAy!	16:32
+bartjol	what?	16:33
SDuensin	It's FRIDAY!	16:34
+bartjol	ah	16:37
+bartjol	http://ishetalweekend.nl/	16:38
SDuensin	lol	16:43
+bartjol	haven't seen an english version, but it is clear enough	16:50
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@preaction	uhm, did we lose the install/upgrade forum from webgui.org?	20:20
+perlDreamer	I think it was merged into etc?	20:43
+perlDreamer	as part of the last website redesign	20:43
+perlDreamer	everything was consolidated back together	20:44
@preaction	interesting bit of info for today: Auth was added in 6.0.0	21:37
@preaction	in 2003.	21:37
@preaction	when was Asset made? 6.2?	22:06
@preaction	6.3 actually, almost 2 years later... jesus	22:08
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+perlDreamer	WebGUI 6 took a very long time	23:02
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@preaction	ohh, wgd config is for wgdev config, not wg config... sigh...	02:51
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@preaction	yeah, that's confusing :(	03:10
@preaction	perhaps it should be wgd --config <- set a wgd config. and wgd config <- set a wg site config	03:11
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@preaction	new feature request; upload a .doc or .odt file and have as much formatting as possible preserved as it's imported into the sytem. there must be some file format we could take advantage of. PDF even?	08:06
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@preaction	i've been setting up a buildbot for my other company, and i think we'll set up one for webgui while i'm at it	01:59
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@preaction	webgui and WRE why not	01:59
@preaction	oh, new WRE will be built with make, not any build.sh. make is designed to do what build.sh does poorly	02:00
+SynQ	hehe	02:45
+SynQ	is there going to be a wre?	02:46
@preaction	there has to be, yes	02:46
+SynQ	why?	02:47
+SynQ	forgive my ignorance ;)	02:47
@preaction	because you still need perl, mysql, and a messton of perl modules	02:47
@preaction	also various helper stuff like the backup and other utils, done as WebGUI::Command scripts, but requiring some setup	02:47
+SynQ	if there is going to be a WRE then indeed make is the better tool	02:48
@preaction	and we're going to add nginx as a proxy for the static stuff	02:48
+SynQ	memcached?	02:48
@preaction	not in the main WRE, as FastMMap is faster in the most-common, single-server case	02:49
+SynQ	indeed	02:49
+SynQ	probably	02:49
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