WebGUI irc logs from: 2010-07.log

--- Log opened Thu Jul 01 00:00:04 2010
+perlDreamerthanks for that tip00:06
+perlDreamerbtw, merging pass 2 is proceeding well00:07
+perlDreamersome test is leaking carts00:07
+perlDreamerand I forgot to change the ENV code in Group.t00:07
+perlDreamerbut we're up to 7.9.700:07
+perlDreamerand we should be fully up to speed by friday00:08
+perlDreamerprobably earlier00:08
+perlDreamerI'll just start merging after every 7.9 release00:08
+perlDreamerand that way, you won't get slammed with all my test editing, session work, indent changes and the like, too00:08
+perlDreamerHaarg, what happens when you do this: git co master; wgd reset --config; git co WebGUI8; wgd reset -d00:09
+perlDreamerI get session complaints during the upgrade that it can't start a cache object because there aren't any cache settings00:10
+perlDreamerwhich makes sense, since they haven't been added yet00:10
Haargyay session die die die00:12
Haarganyway, my upgrades branch will fix that00:12
+perlDreameram i still here?00:14
Haargdid you have any other thoughts on that upgrades reporting thing?00:19
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+perlDreamerno, the output is fine00:35
* perlDreamer takes the kids to the dentist, I won't be back online until later tonight, maybe00:56
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@preactionWhich is it? Which way do we want to deal with JSON in asset data? As text or as an arrayref?01:10
@preactionor just half one half the other? that sounds good01:10
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Haargi'm a big fan of inconsistency.02:03
@scrottieyeah, sometimes I am too.02:04
Haargseems like BUILDARGS should be deserializing the data02:05
Haargwrite is serializing the data02:06
Haargso that seems kind of bad02:06
Haargthe Serialize attribute trait currently does nothing, but is just used as a marker02:07
Haargwhich tells it to serialize data before writing it.  but i don't see where it deserializes the data.02:08
Haargboth behaviors should probably be pushed into the trait itself, and have BUILDARGS and write call that02:08
@scrottiehttp://www.webgui.org/webgui/tv ... 404.  I wanna watch videos!02:13
Haargwhere did you get that link from?02:14
@scrottiehttp://www.webgui.org/community ... first paragraph under the "webgui community" heading02:15
Haargfiled a bug for you http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/1169402:19
@scrottieah, thanks.02:22
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+perlDreamerpreaction: WebGUI::Type has a type for coercing Strings into JSON types03:47
+perlDreameralso, two tests away from a full 7.9.7 merge03:51
+perlDreamerlast test fixed, again04:24
+perlDreamertime to run the suite04:24
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+perlDreamerall passing!04:44
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5e502fe / : Merge commit '17ce3572bfa4daf61c60d75dc49d6cc758f97b0b' into WebGUI8. All tests passing. - http://bit.ly/d4bZMG04:44
+perlDreamermerging 7.9.8 next04:48
@scrottieyou rock.04:49
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@scrottieI see template escapes.  This is not good.06:07
@scrottietry again tomorrow I guess.06:07
+perlDreamerscrottie, what are template escapes?06:55
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mducharmedammit dammit dammit17:55
mducharmei'm in trouble with my boss...17:55
mducharmestupid spectre17:55
@preactionHaarg: i'm talking in 7.9. I'm trying to write a form control that produces and consumes serialized JSON, but if the field in the asset is also set the "serialized => 1" then my field (and Asset.pm) chokes on it17:55
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@preactionso both asset and my field need to be able to handle both situations, either you get the ref to serialize OR you get the string already serialized17:56
@preactionwhich, imho, just invites a whole shitton of problems17:56
@preactionmducharme: what's up?17:56
mducharmewhen I do webgui upgrades, I just use the webgui service to restart it afterwards.. it never told me that spectre didn't start properly17:56
mducharmethis was months ago17:56
mducharmeyesterday I noticed that spectre wasn't running.. started it, then we suddenly got like 6 months of backed-up "contact us" page emails all at once17:57
@preactionare you running the wremonitor.pl? it would have tried to restart i think17:57
mducharmeno, I'm not17:57
mducharmethe issue was definately after an upgrade, because there was a missing comma from spectre, conf17:58
mducharmeer spectre.conf17:58
@preactionadd to root crontab: */3 * * * * /data/wre/sbin/wremonitor.pl17:58
@preactioni might be missing a *, forget how many you need17:58
mducharmewho does that email to17:58
@preactionM H D M DM, no i'm right17:58
@preactioncheck wre.conf, it's in there17:58
@preactionbut really, i'd get a real monitoring solution. wremonitor.pl will hold you over until you install and set up zabbix17:59
@preactionmental note: I should write a blog post to help set up zabbix to monitor WebGUI services17:59
@preactionzabbix is amazing. just amazing. i have 20 servers, they don't go down, and i get paged maybe once a month17:59
mducharmeboss is mad at me now, he's like "I am not impressed, how do I know anything you do is working?"18:00
mducharmenow I know for sure after an upgrade I will use wreservice.pl to start the services instead of just using the service script18:00
mducharmebecause the wreservice.pl told me spectre failed, the service script told me nothing18:01
mducharmeyeah, I start the service with /etc/init.d/webgui start and it looks like everything is peachy18:01
@preactionbut seriously, there is a right answer to his question: "You know because you can log in to zabbix and see the status of everything on our server"18:02
mducharmeif I start the service with /data/wre/sbin/wreservice.pl --start all , it shows SPECTRE failed18:02
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mducharmepreaction that looks like it would be something too big and complex for this business...18:04
@preactionbut right now you have nothing. your server could go down in the middle of the night and nobody would know until morning18:04
@preactioni'm just saying. 18:04
@preactionthe alternative: we could host you, then i'd be in charge of keeping webgui up (and we'd monitor with zabbix) ;)18:05
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mducharmepreaction - we have webgui hosting our browser start page18:16
mducharmepeople know right away if webgui isn't running because the browser start page won't appear :)18:16
@preactionright, but the idea w/ zabbix is that an Admin knows before a User knows. if the User tells the Admin, that's a failure18:16
@preactionin my situation, it's a pissed-off client18:16
mducharmeI know that18:17
mducharmehowever, the person who I am transfering my admin responsibilities too18:17
mducharmeer to18:17
mducharmeshe is supposed to be managing all of the systems18:18
mducharmeshe previously worked in a computer store setting up windows boxes and never touched a server18:18
mducharmeshe doesn't even know how to install webgui yet, so I've been managing the box18:18
mducharmesetting up zabbix would just be one other system that she doesn't yet know how to manage18:18
mducharmeit would cause more problems than it is worth18:18
mducharmeif she was at a higher level, I would say it is fine18:19
mducharmebut at the level she is at, she can't handle it18:19
mducharmeI'm trying to make everything as simple as possible for her18:20
+perlDreamermducharme, in that kind of situation, easiest is having someone else host and monitor the box18:26
+bartjolor use a monitoring system18:30
+bartjolwe use nagios18:31
@preactionyeah, i suggested zabbix18:31
@preactionmducharme, you'd set up zabbix and she'd just get paged when something gets wrong. much like how perlDreamer gets paged, but i'm the one who configures18:31
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+bartjolaah, you get Colin to clean up your mess18:32
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* perlDreamer doesn't mind18:49
+perlDreamerpreaction never yells18:49
+bartjolah, only JT does18:50
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+perlDreamerJT doesn't yell at me either18:50
+bartjoloh, only at me then ;)18:51
@preactionwe pulled his fangs. all bark and no bite18:51
+bartjolah, didn't know that18:52
@preactionthey were getting long, interfering with his eating18:53
@preactionthat's what happens when you keep JTs in captivity too long18:53
+perlDreamerpreaction, don't know if you backlogged last night or not.  We're merged up to 7.9.718:53
+perlDreamer7.9.8 will be today18:53
@preactionyep, good job18:53
+perlDreamerand then I'll merge every other week to keep us up to date18:53
@preactiononce we start making 8 releases we'll need to keep up-to-date18:54
+perlDreamerhopefully we won't start making 8 releases until after 7.9 is stable18:54
+perlDreamerso we only have to maintain two branches18:54
@preactionactually, we need to do it around the same time18:54
@preactionand we'll have a 7.10. we have to18:55
@preactionotherwise where would we put new features that people want to actually use?18:55
+perlDreamerwhy for?18:55
@preaction8 won't be stable until well past Jan18:55
@preactionJan it'll be beta18:55
@preactionwe might even have a 7.1118:55
@preaction(oh thank heaven)18:55
@preactionbut from where i'm sitting now, 7.10 is necessary18:55
+perlDreameryou're been dying to say that, haven't you?18:55
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@preactionno, i just came to this realization like two or three days ago as i was planning 7.9 stable18:57
@preactionbut yes18:58
* perlDreamer sighs, but resolves to do the three branch dance18:58
+bartjoloooh, I wanna have a movie of that18:58
@preactionif things go according to plan, we'll probably be doing a three-branch dance during all of 918:58
@preaction8 had a huge time where we were completely unable to release18:59
+perlDreamerI'll be practiced by then18:59
@preactionhuge changes that broke everything18:59
@preactioni want 9 to be much more subtle18:59
+bartjolI get it, I don't get to touch it19:00
+perlDreamerbartjol, you're welcome to come hack if you wish19:00
@preactionthere's plenty of tasks for 8 and we're willing to mentor19:00
@preactionlittle things like running perltidy and making sure it doesn't break tests, running Perl::Critic and doing what it says, etc...19:01
+bartjoloh, I can do that.19:01
@preactionbut every task that someone else can do leaves the big heads more time to work on special stuff (or even extra stuff)19:01
+perlDreamerit would be cool to work in the database state/status stuff19:02
+bartjoldo I need constant internet, or is a working local instaal enough, so I can post results later19:02
@preactiona working local 8 will be just fine19:02
+perlDreamerjust like WebGUI 7 work19:02
+bartjolah, haven't tried that yet19:02
@preactionmight want to set up a WebGUI fork on github though, and commit your stuff to a new branch (that way you can get comments before you commit to mainline 8)19:02
@preactionand we can help with that too19:02
+bartjolexcellent, but unfortunately I'm off on 2 weeks vacation19:03
+perlDreamerwhere are you sailing to?19:03
@preactionand it'll be here when you get back, no worries there ;)19:03
+bartjolI thought you guys were fast19:03
@preactionwe are, but there's so much to do19:03
@preactionwe're adding stuff faster than we're removing it, and we won't get to it all (that's part of the plan)19:04
+perlDreamerbartjol, are you sailing all the way around Spain into the Mediterranean?19:04
+bartjolwell, I try to install 8 this weekend then, I suppose the wre won't work19:04
+bartjolno, we go by bus19:04
@preactionno, but it's a lot easier. you don't even need apache anymore19:05
@preactionjust mysql, imagemagick, testEnvironment.pl, and then "cd /data/WebGUI; plackup app.psgi"19:05
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+bartjolwell, building an environment is good for my skills19:05
+perlDreamerpreaction: have you seen this: http://neography.com/experiment/circles/solarsystem/19:05
+bartjolis that a native mysql install?19:06
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@preactiondoesn't matter how mysql is installed19:06
@preactionperlDreamer: nice19:06
@preactionpluto's inaccurate, but still very nice19:06
+bartjolcool, no problems there then19:07
+bartjolI'll be a WG8-janitor19:07
+bartjolbut it is feeding time19:08
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@preactionyay! about time i got someone else helping me push this cart19:08
@preactionwait, do we ever test Asset->update?19:09
@preactioni mean, it looks like we have coverage from the myriad of stuff we test that actually uses update19:10
+perlDreamerpreaction, I think t/Asset.t has an update test19:11
+perlDreamerbut if you wish, you can add something to t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm, too19:12
@preactionyou mean t/Asset/Asset.t19:12
@preactioni'm still working in 7.919:12
@preactionhumph. 8 would let me add stuff to the object's metaclass to test serialize => 119:13
@preactioninstead, in 7.9, i'd have to add a WebGUI::Asset::TestAsset package in the test script to create a definition that exercises the definition / update relationship stuff19:14
@preactionat least, recently, i haven't been complaining as much about needing to write tests. i've been enjoying it19:15
@preactionsomething else i thought about today: Would it be better to wrap WebGUI inside of Catalyst, or would it be better to wrap Catalyst inside of WebGUI?19:17
@preactioni'm leaning towards the latter right now, wrapping Cat makes us able to support legacy Assets and Catalyst at the same time (and then, later, move to Catalyst-based applications exclusively)19:17
@preaction(if, of course, we decide to move to Cat)19:17
* perlDreamer doesn't know enough about Catalyst to respond19:21
@preactionnor do i, which is why i'm not Sure19:21
@preactionbut it would be a huge increase in flexibility for WebGUI if it could dispatch to Catalyst apps19:22
@preactionand then we could add our own helpers to make things RAD19:22
@preactionor use what's available19:22
@preactionthe idea being to reduce the amount of code we have to maintain in a vaccuum and use the best of the Perl community19:22
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+perlDreamerI'd almost rather we reimplement in Catalyst19:28
+perlDreamerso that Catalyst could take advantage of things like our Users, Group and other classes19:28
@preactionthey'd be able to either way, really19:28
@preactionWebGUI would give Catalyst $c object a way to reach the stuff it needs to19:29
@preactionthe problem with reimplementation is always time, we've never had it, we never will19:29
@preactionwhich is why Auth has not been touched in years, not even touched "oh, we'll reimplement"... WHEN?19:29
@preactionbut if we make ways to slowly migrate to better systems, that will happen. not all at once, but as we have time19:31
+perlDreamersure, that makes sense19:32
+perlDreamerlike adopting Moose and CHI now19:32
+perlDreamerDBIx later19:32
+perlDreamerand opting for other things down the road19:32
@preactionMoose was drastic, CHI not so much (which is why it's in 7.9 as well)19:32
@preactionPSGI was drastic, but enables a lot of this migration stuff19:33
+perlDreamerin 7.9 it's different though19:33
@preactionthe code is different, a little, but the configuration is the same (so you can move right to 8)19:33
+perlDreamerwe'll be fixing Merge problems from WebGUI::Cache to CHI for a long time, until we leave the 7.9 series compeletly19:33
+perlDreamerpreaction, did you get the export controls email from SF?19:44
+perlDreamerI think we qualify for reducing export controls on WebGUI itself19:44
+perlDreamerbut many of the CPAN modules that we use won't19:44
@preactioni got the e-mail, and yes we don't directly implement encryption19:45
@scrottiethere's a lot of overlap between WebGUI and Catalyst in the dispatch and presentation department.  try to mix them and there will be lots of spare screws and nuts laying around on the floor and things hanging off of things.  making things interoperate between them though would be awesome.19:51
@scrottiemducharme, I had a situation like that once years ago.  It sucked, but it was a good learning experience.  now if something needs to be up, at the very minimum, there's a cron placing a test order with WWW::Mechanize or the like daily and the client is told that if the daily test order doesn't come in, call me.19:52
@preactionyeah, the idea i have is making WebGUI have a single entry point to the asset system (a dispatch method), which could then be overridden to allow Catalyst-based assets19:52
@scrottiefun, fun, fun.19:53
+perlDreamerscrottie, what were you talking about last night when you mentioned "template escapes"?19:54
@preactionright now, cat is possible, it's just not pretty and you don't get much of WebGUI's other stuff unless you build it yourself. (open a session yourself, load the webgui libs, etc...)19:54
@scrottieoh, that.19:54
@scrottiemy alumni dev setup's user manager doesn't have form controls but instead has text like this:  User Name [% form_username %]19:55
@scrottie[% FOREACH program IN user.alumni_programs_loop %][% program.name %] (^ConvertUTCToTZ('UTC','%b-%Y',[% program.startDate %]); 19:55
@scrottieetc, etc.19:55
@scrottieit worked before I tried to upgrade.19:55
@scrottieI'm not excited about the prospect of trying to load the database again.  that's an all day affair.  granted I could have started it before I took off last night.19:56
@scrottiemducharme, btw, I noticed that behavior... spectre detaching *before* verfying everything was in order... and made a note to myself to fix that.19:57
@scrottieI have yet to touch part of this system that hasn't blown up on me.20:07
@scrottieon my first try.20:08
@scrottieperlDreamer, I'm interested in your thoughts on that before I blow this away and try again.20:09
@preactionperhaps the Template Toolkit template driver isn't enabled in your config file?20:10
@preactiontemplateParsers : [ ... ], should have 'TemplateToolkit' in it20:10
+perlDreamerscrottie, are you talking about Spectre, or TT?20:10
@scrottietalking about two things at once.  responding to mducharme's comments from earlier.  also talking about my mucked up alumni install.20:12
+perlDreamermucked up alumni install can come from many, many sources20:12
@preactioni'd almost say grab the config file from the alumni servers, editing dbuser, dbpass, and dsn appropriately20:13
+perlDreamerwe are merged!20:13
@scrottie "WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit" is in templateParsers... close enough?20:13
@scrottieperlDreamer, nice.20:13
@preactionscrottie: yeah. guess i was wrong20:14
@scrottiesuccessive approximation is often a good strategy.20:14
@scrottieslightly closer to correct is often very helpful.20:14
@preactionbump your etc/log.conf log level to INFO instead of ERROR or WARN and try again, it might have some more information20:15
+perlDreamerscrottie, since I've been on, you haven't pasted anything close to whatever errors  you're seeing either20:15
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r565cf95 / : Merge commit '469c2b72b4ee2eb3828f36123d7f731cf317a6d2' into WebGUI8. All tests passing. - http://bit.ly/aAq1DK20:15
+perlDreamerso successive approximation is the only tool you've left us20:15
+perlDreamerHaarg, if you'd give WebGUI8 the once over with your usual rigor for the previous merges, I'd appreciate it20:16
@scrottieperlDreamer, I'm not seeing errors, I'm seeing unprocessed template tags in the HTML output.  I did paste a few examples of it into here and I'd be happy to post a screenshot or whatever.20:16
@scrottie<scrottie> [% FOREACH program IN user.alumni_programs_loop %][% program.name %] (^ConvertUTCToTZ('UTC','%b-%Y',[% program.startDate %]); 20:17
@scrottieI hope that's not "haven't pasted anything close"20:17
@preactionwait, the macro didn't get parsed either?20:17
@preactionthat's weird20:17
@preactionyes, bump your log level up, there should be something in there20:17
@preactionat the very least, the macro will whine about not being able to do what it was supposed to do20:18
+perlDreameralso, check for the ConvertUTCToTZ macro in your config20:18
+perlDreamermaybe the two are related20:18
+perlDreamerbut who knows?20:18
@preactiondo we have a "How to debug WebGUI" checklist somewhere?20:18
@scrottie      "ConvertUTCToTZ" : "ConvertUTCToTZ",20:18
@preactioni mean, we've got the "Performance" one20:18
+perlDreamerin H::T, template stuff disappears when variables are undefined, or the template pukes20:18
+perlDreamerpreaction, if we do have one, it would be on the webgui.org wiki20:19
@preactionright, but since H::T looks like HTML to browsers, things just go missing. TT isn't like HTML, so that happens20:19
@scrottieI haven't touched these templaters in ages.20:19
+perlDreamerpreaction: can I use Definition to get rid of Class::InsideOut?20:23
@preactionwhy do we need Definition? will normal Moose not work?20:24
+perlDreamerwell... :)20:24
@preactionHaarg was saying Definition may not be a good idea outside of Asset, but i'll let him elaborate20:24
+perlDreamerwe need to build forms20:24
+perlDreamerand it gives us the standard get/set/update/write interfaces20:24
+perlDreamerand, it will give us practical experience with using Definition outside of Assets, so if it needs to evolve, we'll learn20:25
@scrottieI'd still like to see those methods moved up the inheritance tree rather than mixed in.20:25
@scrottielet things subclass a WebGUI::Settable or something.20:26
+perlDreamermixing them in is the right way to do it20:26
+perlDreamerinheritance is so 200320:26
@scrottieso tautological20:26
@preactioni had planned a WebGUI::Model or something. and when we adopt DBIC (or other ORM) there will probably have to be a small layer inbetween WebGUI and the ORM (for session, or what-have-you)20:27
@preactionbut we're not doing that now, we're getting ready for it20:27
@preactionand i thought we were moving away from get() update() write() stuff? or is that just the internal API and not the public one?20:27
+perlDreamerget/set, yes.  It's too easy to pass update an hashref and know that it will DTRT20:28
+perlDreameralso, it gives 3rd party code a chance of working.20:28
@scrottieI had a rather nice and rather extended conversation about inheritance with doy at YAPC (well, at Varsity Club).  Inheritance is not dead.  People are merely distracted by shiny things.  I'd like to think that KISS never gets old.20:29
+perlDreamerlike getting all the object properties by calling ->get()20:29
+perlDreamerscrottie, roles are easier20:29
@scrottiemaintaining huge messes of code from people who had way too much fun writing it without regard for it being read *does* get old though.20:29
@scrottiesure they're easier.20:29
+perlDreamerit's like ordering pizza20:29
+perlDreameryou don't order a pizza->cheese->pepperoni->sausage20:29
@preactionright, but ->get() just wraps Moose's meta stuff. all Definition is just a wrapper around Moose meta stuff20:30
+perlDreameryou order a pizza->[cheese, pepperoni, sausage]20:30
@scrottieC++ has a lot of history there.  a lot of smart people made a lot of things really easy and then made a lot of big balls of mud.  then they sobered up and started asking good, hard questions about *why* that happened and wrote a lot of good books on OODA.20:30
@scrottiegood tools do not keep you from creating big messes.20:30
@preactionwell, take an easier example: Animal, Dog, Cat. Roles have their part in an environment, just as inheritance does20:30
@scrottiequite they opposite.  they're narcotic.  they let you do it without even noticing.20:30
@preactionRole is something you DO, inheritance is something you Are20:30
+perlDreamerscrottie, you just repeated the most popular argument against Perl20:30
@preactioni am an animal, i do flying20:31
@preactioni am a bird20:31
+perlDreamerit's not the tool, it's the wielder20:31
+perlDreamerpreaction: you are a bat20:31
@scrottieif you have food->crusty stuff->crusty stuff with toppings, you have a hierarchy.20:31
@preactioni am an animal, i am a mammal, i do flying, i'm a bat ;)20:31
@scrottieif you have toppings that get mixed and matched, not so much.20:31
+perlDreamerscrottie, I think we're really arguing the same thing here, from different sides20:32
+perlDreamerpure, in memory objects don't need get/set/update/write20:32
@preactionmiddle road people! middle road!20:32
+perlDreamerbut persistent objects do20:32
+perlDreamerand that's where it makes sense to add a role20:32
@scrottiein general, if something can be pushed down the inheritance tree, I personal would prefer to see that happen.20:32
@scrottieI'd also like to see people who are so excited about Moose to go read some C++ post-fallout OODA lit.20:33
@preactiondown into derived classes? or up into parents?20:33
@scrottieup into the parents.  towards the roots.20:33
@preactionk. two ways of looking at the tree ;)20:33
+perlDreamerbut why clutter up the children with things that they wouldn't use?20:33
+perlDreamerlook at Wobject.pm for example20:33
@scrottieand no, I'm not saying tools are bad; I'm saying smart people with good tools do create messes.20:33
+perlDreamerwhy does Article need to handle database collateral20:33
@preactionwell, wobject was stupid. the collateral stuff is a role, but the Style stuff is inherited20:34
@preactionwobject is basically "this asset can control an entire page"20:34
@scrottieput smart people into any role and if they're divorced from good history, they make bad decisions.  intelligence is not enough.20:34
@scrottieyeah, I can't comment on a lot of this design stuff.20:34
@preactionbut again, we're doing both, and the touchstone is "AM vs. DO"20:34
@scrottieonly make generalizations.20:34
@preactionI am a Wobject, I do Collateral20:34
+perlDreamerbut Wobject also means, "description, style, and other things"20:35
@scrottiethat's the result, sure.  but the construction is another matter.  20:35
+perlDreameror, take Sku for an example20:35
+perlDreamerevery sku has settings for shipping20:35
+perlDreamereven coupons!20:35
@scrottieI don't have a problem with the result.  but anything resembling a mess of #includes is going to give me pause.20:35
@preactionso wobject is an assembly of things we do, but if i'm a wobject i want to do all those things20:35
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@preactioni just don't like the idea of, yeah, 8 "with ROLE" in every single Asset I make20:36
@preactionbecause then we get "with MY::ROLE::BUNDLE"20:37
@preactionor, eventually, "extends MY::SUPERCLASS::WITH::MY::ROLE::BUNDLE"20:37
+perlDreamerpreaction, when we do that, then you have to bust the bundles, or not use inheritcance, or write roles which overwrite roles20:37
+perlDreamerbut, in any case, let me make the original question pointed20:38
@preactionyou're thinking 100%, i'm thinking 90%20:38
@preactionthere's always a way to get that last 10%20:38
+perlDreamerit's been historic WebGUI style to have ->get return all props, and ->update set all props and write to the db20:38
@preactionbut if we make 90% as easy as one line, we're good20:38
+perlDreamerit's everywhere through the packages20:38
+perlDreamerDefinition provides that20:38
@scrottieI am so god damn tempted right now to make this thing work under Continuity so I can debug and inspect it as it runs a web hit so I can try to figure out interactively why stuff isn't being templated rather than trying to go back to first principles and deduce why it isn't working.20:39
@preactionwell, before that it was individual accessors, then ->get and ->update, now individual accessors AND ->get and ->update20:39
@scrottieI guess that's the gist of it.  I'm cranky right now because 2010 is way too late to be trying to ever deduce from first principles why anything in code isn't working, ever.20:39
@preactionreally wishing Haarg would chime in on why he was saying Definition shouldn't be used for anything other than Asset20:39
@preactionbecause i don't remember20:39
+perlDreamerwas it in channel?20:39
@preactionno, at YAPC20:40
* perlDreamer sighs20:40
@scrottiehell, I almost ditched work and went to a programmable logic class.  even in Verilog you don't try to deduce from reading through stuff why stuff doesn't work.  you interactively debug.20:40
@preactionscrottie: there's a way to get the debugger working inside mod_perl / apache, and it's not too awful.20:40
@preactioni've had to use it a couple times20:40
@scrottieI've certainly run mod_perl under gdb.  that's awful.20:41
@preactionbut did upping the log level and trying again show any fun info or warn-level messages?20:41
+perlDreamerI think we distracted him with a good debate20:41
@scrottieyeah.  bad data going into the macro.20:41
@scrottiebut nothing about why TT isn't working.20:41
@scrottieno, I distracted myself.  but then I realized that on a meta level I had a solid argument.20:42
@scrottieand I'm still tempted to get this all going under Continuity.20:42
@preactionfigures. we do some fucked-up capturing of real errors and never end up displaying the message20:42
@preactionis the template set to use Template Toolkit?20:42
@scrottiehell if I know.20:42
+perlDreameredit it, and look at the Template Parser setting20:42
@scrottieit worked before I tried to upgrade.20:42
+perlDreameror, check the db20:42
@preactionif you edit the asset, you should be able to get at its templates (in the Display tab). there's an Edit button next to it20:43
@preactionsorry to mention something maybe obvious, but Template is installed right? i'd think it'd be more vocal about that, but i've been wrong before20:44
@preactionthere's a reason why 8 has "Normalize error messages" in its task list. debugging is a bitch. we don't yell about real problems, and scream about things that we have no control over (user input, for example)20:45
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kayiwaI recently inherited a WebGUI 7.5.40 and I've had three failed attempts. My understanding is the "stop point" is 7.6.10 then 7.6.3520:47
kayiwaI attempted manual to 7.6.10 unsuccessfully20:47
kayiwawith this as the constant error20:47
kayiwaDeleting AdminBar templates... Can't call method "setScratch" on an undefined value at ../lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm line 256.20:47
kayiwaProcessing upgrade executable failed!20:47
@preactionyou can go from 7.5.40 directly to 7.6.3420:47
+perlDreamerkayiwa, that's a bad asset in the database20:48
@preactionno, that's a bad workflowId20:48
kayiwaso kill the workflow and attempt this?20:48
@preactionno, remove from settings table where name="purgeWorkflow" and try again20:49
@preactionbut seriously, you can go to 7.6.34 right away20:49
+perlDreamerDELETE from settings where name="purgeWorkflow"20:49
@preactionpfft, that was left as an exercise for the reader, to make them understand to NEVER execute a SQL snippet from an IRC channel without understanding what it does ;)20:50
* perlDreamer pokes Haarg again in the hope he'll talk about Definition20:52
+perlDreamerpreaction, should AssetTrash log an error if that happens again?20:53
@preactionyes, it should log an error and not explode20:54
@preactionlooks like it currently will still explode20:54
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdb96547 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt docs/gotcha.txt): Add missing docs about needing Net::Twitter. - http://bit.ly/c2bAiY21:03
+perlDreamerpreaction, isn't kayiwa going to need that workflow later?21:04
+perlDreamerwell, I guess it's been deleted, so it won't matter at this point21:04
@preactionit doesn't exist, yeah21:04
@preactionit's gone, no coming back21:04
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r61008c8 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm): Check that the Purge workflow exists before trying to run it. Fixes bug #11698 - http://bit.ly/9CwI7A21:09
@preactionyou know, a lot of this definition stuff in Asset is completely untested21:09
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rbe8a502 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm): Check that the Purge workflow exists before trying to run it. Fixes bug #11698 - http://bit.ly/90Heua21:10
+perlDreamerpreaction, not only is it untested, but it won't even be used in 821:10
@preactionwhich means i'll make the test its own commit, because it won't merge21:11
@preactionwell, it'll merge, but it won't pass21:12
@preactionalso, i'll merge 7.9 into 8 after i push, because i need what i just did in 8 (so you won't have to deal with it!21:13
+perlDreamerthis is how I do that21:14
+perlDreamerthen fix all *.pm files21:14
+perlDreamerrun t/00_compile.t to check everything21:14
+perlDreamerthen fix any tests21:14
+perlDreamerafter that, you have to fix the upgrade stuff21:14
@preactioni'll have to do it tomorrow morning, gotta drive to oshkosh to maybe meet someone about the apt.21:15
+perlDreamergot a renter?21:16
@preactionnot yet, trying to21:16
@preactionit's fun, because people seem interested, then they don't return my callbacks or e-mails21:16
@preactionmakes me want to hire a management agency, but that'd destroy my already slim margins21:17
+perlDreamerthey'd just up your rates, anyway21:18
+perlDreamerpreaction: is this what you were thinking of for the demise of Session->Env: http://gist.github.com/460338 ?21:20
@preactiongallery no longer able to be instanciated?21:21
@preactionwhy not request->getIp? getIp doesn't just do REMOTE_ADDR21:22
@preactionit also does X_FORWARDED_FOR21:22
+perlDreamerit does?21:22
Haargnot any more21:22
@preactionthen yes21:23
+perlDreamerbrb, I have to watch Tim do a 18021:23
@scrottie[Thu Jul 01 09:10:34 2010] [error] [client] File does not exist: /data/domains/alumni.state.gov/public/extras/wobject/Alumni, referer: http://alumni.state.gov:8000/manageusers ... I rsync'd extras from the source tarball.  where would alumni specific extras come from?21:23
@preactionsymlinks from the dosalumni repository i think21:24
@scrottieah, duh.21:24
Haargpreaction, x-forwarded-for is currently unhandled because it is dependent on your server setup how it should be done.  Plack::Middleware::ReverseProxy is what we'll want to use for that though.21:25
+perlDreamerIf Session->open isn't passed an PSGI env hash, should it make one?21:33
+perlDreamerwhere should the burden of doing that rest?21:33
@preactioni'd think to open an existing session you'd need to know at least which session you were opening. is that handled by the env hash or is the id passed before that?21:34
+perlDreamerfor this particular case, it's during upgrades21:36
+perlDreamerso it's a brand new session21:36
@preactionso it'd be Session->new right? and new could do the hash if no hash existed21:36
+perlDreamerthere is no session->new21:36
+perlDreameronly open21:36
@preactionno create?21:37
+perlDreamerstrike two!21:37
@preactionthen the answer depends on haarg's progress with WebGUI::Site, but probably means "yes, autocreate for now"21:37
* preaction goes to Oshkosh21:37
+perlDreamergood drive, dude21:38
Haargin the past, we just did without a request object if we weren't given one.21:40
Haargwhat upgrade thing are you dealing with specifically?21:41
+perlDreamerglobally, in 8 I did s/->env->getIp/->request->address/;21:41
+perlDreamerthis included a line in Session/Var.pm21:41
+perlDreamersub start:         lastIP       => $session->request->address,21:42
+perlDreamerstart is called by Session->open21:42
+perlDreamerso now every Session needs to have a valid request21:42
Haargfor now i guess just make a fake one.  alternatively change that one case to $session->request && $session->request->address21:43
+perlDreamerI made a fake one, like WebGUI::Test does21:44
+perlDreamerHaarg, any comments on using Definition for non-assets?21:44
+perlDreamerpreaction mentioned that, during YAPC, it might not be best21:44
Haargit was designed with that in mind21:45
Haargbut it may be over complicating things21:45
kayiwaFWIW I get the same result after deleting purgeWorkflow21:45
Haargwhere did you have in mind?21:45
+perlDreamerand any other class that uses Class::InsideOut and has get/set/update methods21:45
+perlDreamerI did Shop/Pay.pm and Shop/Ship.pm in pure Moose because they're only basically objects in that they have 1 method and session21:47
+perlDreamerbut these other ones have real accessors and mutators21:47
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Haarginstead of using definition, i think using just moose would be better21:48
Haargfor that case at least21:49
Haargwe may want to separate out the ->set/->get/->update stuff to make it a role that could be used outside of definition21:49
+perlDreamerwith get_all_settable_list that won't be easy21:52
+perlDreamerwe could just stick a simple one in WebGUI::Role::Object21:53
+perlDreameractually, to be explicitly clear and to distinguish it from WebGUI::Definition::Role::Object, it should be WebGUI::Role::WebGUIObject21:57
+perlDreamertime to make lunch for kiddos22:06
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* perlDreamer is back23:01
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r005b9da / (20 files in 10 dirs): Move session->env->getIp into session->request->address - http://bit.ly/dhb7zA23:12
Haargpreaction, have you seen github's new organizations thing?23:13
Haarglooks perfect for plainblack23:13
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+perlDreamerHaarg, he drove to oshkosh23:18
Haargoh yeah23:19
* Haarg dum23:19
+perlDreamernah, you just need to eat some lunch/dinner23:19
Haargin progress23:19
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+perlDreameryou know, I'm no longer convinced that Americans are the most culturally insensive nation in the world23:20
+perlDreamerexpecting everyone, everywhere to speak English23:20
+perlDreamerthat all changed when I started getting SPAM in UTF-823:21
+perlmonkey2If you think Americans are culturally insensitive, you should meet a Texan.23:24
+perlDreamerat least they speak english :)23:24
Haargi get a lot of russian spam23:25
Haargat one point i was wondering what it was all about, so i translated one of them23:25
Haargthey were trying to sell their spam sending service23:25
+perlDreamerI thought you were going to say it was a Nigerian bank account scam23:25
+perlDreamerFound in URL.pm: $self->session->url->page :/23:27
+perlDreamerto be exact, WebGUI::Session::Url23:27
Haargi've seen that in a few other places as well23:32
+perlDreamersometimes I wonder why you guys keep me around23:32
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* perlDreamer takes kiddos for a bike ride while prove bubbles23:44
+perlDreamerwhen the whole family comes to madcity, I think we may need to bring bikes!23:44
Haargyou should23:45
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+perlDreamerI've been trying to get the kids on bikes for years00:09
+perlDreamerand they finally got it about two weeks ago00:09
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+perlDreamerturns out that killing Session::Env is more fun than pulling weeds01:29
+perlDreamerprepare a Eulogy for Session::Env02:11
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@scrottieSession::Env, I hardly knew ye.03:21
@scrottiebah.  all of the things this upgrade were supposed to fix in alumni are still broken.03:21
@scrottiewas supposed03:22
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@scrottiesshfs isn't going to cut it.  I have to download all of these uploads folder items.03:35
+perlDreamerSession::Env is dead03:41
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re0177dc / (27 files in 14 dirs): Remove Session::Env, migrate code to Plack::Request object in Session, and WebGUI::Session::Request - http://bit.ly/cUb5zm03:41
* perlDreamer goes out to get a new battery for the laptop03:41
+perlDreamerhad to order it05:29
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+perlDreamerand it arrived today05:35
+perlDreamerwe went by bicycle and light rail to go get it05:36
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knowmadmorning all17:32
knowmadi'm hoping for some advice on upgrading from 7.7 to 7.8 and having macros go missing17:32
knowmadi don't see anything in gotchas and no errors in logs; macros are just being output to the page17:34
knowmadwe did make sure that they're plugged in -- they are defined in conf file17:34
knowmadnm, we found it -- custom path for preload.custom that didn't get copied over to the new directory17:35
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+perlDreamerso, after trying to write WebGUI::Role::WebGUIObject, I see what you mean about Definition being overkill for simple objects, Haarg22:03
+perlDreamertime for lunch, and to crash the battery22:17
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc159067 / (docs/migration.txt lib/WebGUI/Shop/Vendor.pm t/Shop/Vendor.t): Remove Class::InsideOut from Shop/Vendor.t Update migration notes, tests and POD. - http://bit.ly/9VE4E301:18
+perlDreamerpatspam, preaction, Haarg: please have a look at c159067 and let me know if that's an acceptable compromise for the change from Class::InsideOut, to WebGUI::Definition01:18
+perlDreamerit's compatible with what was there before, with the difference of having to manually serialize the newly created object to the db.01:19
+perlDreamerif y'all are okay with that, I'll start migrating the 19 other classes to it01:24
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc687ec6 / lib/WebGUI/Keyword.pm : Convert WebGUI::Keyword to use Moose. - http://bit.ly/aIQV0T02:26
HaargperlDreamer, moose things should probably all have weak_ref on session02:28
+perlDreamerwhy, Haarg?02:29
+perlDreamerwe aren't likely to make a loop of Shop/Ship.pm to Session and back02:29
Haargi was mainly thinking for consistency02:30
+perlDreamerbut if we weaken it unnecessarily, won't it get cleaned up too early?02:30
Haargonly if the main reference to it would go away02:31
Haargwhich it won't in any normal situation02:32
Haargmight want to ask preaction what he thinks02:34
Haargi know i've talked to him about this stuff before, but i don't remember what our full conclusion was02:35
+perlDreamery'all need to carry tape recorders02:37
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r97b6a58 / lib/WebGUI/Friends.pm : Move WebGUI::Friends over to Moose from Class::InsideOut - http://bit.ly/cd2wGo02:39
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3807197 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Admin.pm : Move WebGUI::Shop::Admin from Class::InsideOut over to Moose. - http://bit.ly/csfjUA02:44
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scrottiewhat makes the default install do that lovely thing where it shows the queries it runs in-line in the page?03:56
scrottieI'd go peek at the template but I don't want to shut this thing down and fire that up again.03:56
scrottieincidentally, this takes for ever to do anything.  it's maddening.03:57
+perlDreamerscrottie, that's debug mode04:02
+perlDreamerIt's in the settings04:02
+perlDreamerAdmin Console -> Settings -> Miscellaneous04:02
+perlDreameror, via wgd ...04:02
+perlDreamerwgd setting debugMode=1 (I think)04:02
scrottieI set that and changed log level to DEBUG in log.conf but output goes to the log file, not the browser.04:03
scrottiealright, let's see...04:03
+perlDreamerdo you have debug restricted to any IP address?04:03
+perlDreameralso, for certain kinds of output, it will omit debugMode04:04
+perlDreamersince that would break things like RSS and JSON04:04
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scrottieyeah.  I also went digging around in ErrorHandler.pm trying to figure it out and saw that.04:05
+perlDreamerholler if you have more questions, I'll be in and out most of the night so I can pot-shoot problems as you raise them04:05
scrottiestill no go.  bleah.04:07
scrottiethanks though.04:07
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+perlDreamerscrottie, I hate to ask this, but it trips everybody up04:14
+perlDreamerbrowser side caching?04:14
scrottiecache is off.04:14
+perlDreameron your side?04:15
scrottieyup.  I'm running entirely without a cache.  it's just plain off.04:33
scrottiein the browser.04:33
scrottieit kills me but I think I have to move dev over to the fast machines.  the laptop is just too small and slow.04:33
* scrottie sighs04:34
scrottielooks like doesn't match for some reason.  hardcoded a 'return 1;' into canShowBasedOnIP().  *that* made it go.04:39
scrottiealright.  thanks again, and have a good evening.  I better stop.04:41
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbf7c7aa / t/Asset/Wobject/InOutBoard.t : Make the view test more robust. It has been failing randomly. - http://bit.ly/a9d4cf19:41
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@scrottiehttp://nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/161493 fwiw02:35
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@preactionsweet. i could totally make a script that syncs a webgui wiki with a git repo (webgui's assets have workflows, the workflow could sync to the git repo, then a periodic sync from the repo)03:10
@preactionHaarg: is your WGD asset format in a module I can consume somehow?03:10
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Haargpreaction, it's in WGDev::Asset.  a rough combination of yaml and other formatting.  nothing more general than that.15:20
Haargi had intended to set up that automatic dump of the default webgui content to a git repo but never got it quite worked out15:21
Haargwgd has a export-branch command though which could be used to dump out an entire wiki to files15:22
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r90f0a9b / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix date field type detection during import. Fixes bug #11692. - http://bit.ly/bdBDY319:03
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rf3abbf3 / t/Asset/Wobject/InOutBoard.t : Make the view test more robust. It has been failing randomly. - http://bit.ly/a2P2yM19:03
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rdd25201 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix date field type detection during import. Fixes bug #11692. - http://bit.ly/cOO4JP19:04
+perlDreamerit's very quiet this morning19:04
+perlDreameris everybody on holiday?19:04
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r40e6d70 / t/Mail/Send.t : Add a test for UTF-8 handling in the subject. - http://bit.ly/cvDSg020:22
+perlDreamermorning, scrottie20:27
@scrottieheya perlDreamer.20:29
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * raed2c13 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix double body encoding when sending emails. Added tests. Fixes bug #11672. - http://bit.ly/dpAyfV21:57
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rc9ed278 / t/Mail/Send.t : Add a test for UTF-8 handling in the subject. - http://bit.ly/bMQlfL21:58
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r8fd1d83 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix double body encoding when sending emails. Added tests. Fixes bug #11672. - http://bit.ly/biujXG21:58
+perlDreamerpatspam, and all you other foreign language speakers...21:59
+perlDreameryou may want to merge that bugfix back to better handle UTF-8 in emails21:59
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+perlDreamerwell, it seems that I've been wrong all this time23:32
+perlDreamerthere are two CMSes built with Catalyst23:32
+perlDreamerthere's Web site in a box: http://code.google.com/p/websiteinabox/source/list23:33
+perlDreamernot touched on Google code since 200823:33
+perlDreamerand EasyCMS2, http://easycms2.palle.net/23:34
+perlDreamerwhich doesn't seem to be touched since 200723:34
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@scrottiethis rsync is still going and one rsync is enough to make DSL suck.01:06
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+perlDreamerHaarg, I could use some utf8 help with this sometime: http://gist.github.com/46475401:22
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+perlDreamernm, I didn't tell Perl to consider those as UTF-8, and they were borked as they were written out to the DB.02:15
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@preactionso we can be the third CMS that uses catalyst! yay!09:26
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SDuensinHey man.16:30
SDuensinHow's things in your corner of the world?16:31
+MrHairgreasepretty good16:32
+MrHairgreaseand in yours?16:32
SDuensinOff to a day of suck so far.  :-(16:32
+MrHairgreaseThat won't be too bad16:33
+MrHairgreaseif you like suck16:33
SDuensinMostly just me.  Kind of in a foul mood.16:35
+MrHairgreasethat's okay16:39
+MrHairgreaseif you like foul =)16:39
SDuensinI had a disk scan running for almost three days...  Until MS rebooted me for an update.16:40
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+perlDreamerthis just seems kind of flawed to me: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=194775&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1441534&highlight=19:32
+perlDreamerChipotle, the restaurant chain, says they'll send $10K to a charity organization for every 100K email messages they get19:32
+perlDreamerseems like the geeks of the world could bankrupt them pretty easily :)19:33
* perlDreamer heads home from the coffee shop. Back in 20.19:41
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+perlDreamerpreaction: http://search.cpan.org/~samv/MooseX-Timestamp-0.06/lib/MooseX/TimestampTZ.pm20:01
+perlDreamerMoose timestamp type, in our favorite MySQL format, with full timezone support20:01
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1abe035 / (lib/WebGUI/Session/Url.pm t/Session/Url.t): Refactor test to move makeCompliant tests out of urlize. Tweak makeCompliant for speed and clarity. - http://bit.ly/cmDAJF20:24
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r655efc4 / t/Asset/Post/notification.t : Add tests for double encoding of UTF8 content in Posts and email notificaitons. - http://bit.ly/aJEhTn20:24
+perlDreameryo, scrottie!20:25
+perlDreamerhow's the alumni stuff?20:25
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r39738a4 / t/Asset/Post/notification.t : Add tests for double encoding of UTF8 content in Posts and email notificaitons. - http://bit.ly/9yNXL220:25
@scrottiethe photo approval screen makes no sense to me whatsoever.20:26
@scrottieall of this was way too slow on the Linux laptop.  I got everything going on the big machine just yesterday.  stuff is still rsycning down.  FUSE didn't allow for write.20:27
@scrottieI'm looking at API for programmatically resizing all of the thumbnails.  shouldn't be too bad.20:27
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@scrottiedon't know what the procedure is for exporting templates and importing them elsewhere.  I saw something about exporting assets.  that might be it.20:28
+patspamscrottie: wgd package20:29
@scrottieabout half of the time, the answer is wgd.20:29
@scrottiemornin' patspam.20:29
+patspamheya :)20:29
@preactionwgd is the faster way to do just about everything20:32
+perlDreamer<3 wgd20:33
+perlDreamersomeone needs to make a T-shirt for that20:33
+perlDreamerscrottie, in general, to move any asset from one site to another, you use packages.20:33
+perlDreamerEdit the asset, in the Metadata tab, set "Make package" to yes.20:34
+perlDreamerthen, in the Asset Manager, you can export it as a .wgpkg file (.tar.gz aliased)20:34
@scrottiethen a package pops out?20:34
+perlDreamernext, in the other site, import the package file in the Asset Manager.20:34
+perlDreamerIt will be instanced where the Asset Manager is pointing, so choose carefully20:34
@scrottieis the basic operation there a replace or add-child?20:37
+perlDreamerif the asset already exists, it is replace current20:37
@preactioni thought it was addRevision20:38
+perlDreamerI think.. if the asset doesn't exist (by checking assetId), it does addChild20:39
+perlDreamerotherwise, it does addRev20:39
@scrottiereplaced if the assetId matches?20:39
+perlDreameryes, although there are also issues with the revisionDate20:39
@scrottiereplaced/addRev'd if the assetId already exists?20:39
+perlDreamerif the asset exists on the site, and there is a newer revision than what the package contains, you'll never see the imported revision20:39
+perlDreamertechnically, what you're importing as a package isn't an asset, it is a revision of an asset20:40
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r4366871 / t/Asset/Post/notification.t : UTF-8 urls are not allowed in WebGUI 7.8. - http://bit.ly/9kw9IJ21:03
@preactionwell, an asset doesn't really exist w/o a revision21:03
@preactionaddChild == INSERT INTO asset (...), addRevision21:04
+perlDreamerexactly, but it's possible to import a package, and not see the content show up due to revision control21:04
+perlDreamerthat was the source of all the 7.8 upgrade issues21:04
@preactionright, that's one of a few pitfalls of packages that i hope to address someday21:04
@preactionHaarg: are there any docs on the new upgrade system? I'm about to ask you a question i swear i've asked twice before: how does it handle stop versions?21:06
+perlDreamerI added a switch to importPackage for upgrades to handle that issue21:06
+perlDreamer(not stop versions, but revision issues on packages)21:06
@preactionam i wrong, or should an OS reload take about 20 minutes? how long does it take to install CentOS 5?21:26
@preactionit's been 3 hours.21:26
+perlDreamerhave to format the partitions?21:26
@preactiona quick format takes like 30 seconds21:27
+perlDreameris this a real box, or a VM?21:27
@preactiona real box21:27
+perlDreamerall packages locally available, or a internet based install?21:27
@preactionit is a default CentOS 5 DVD afaik21:28
+perlDreamerRed Hat-like installs can suffer from dependency hell with conflict resolution on some boxes21:28
+perlDreamerare you sure it's actually doing anything, or just spinning?21:28
@preactionbut remind me next time, we'll start moving systems to EC2 as they die. it would take less than half the time...21:28
@preactioni don't know, i ask them, they install the OS21:28
* perlDreamer is not impressed by the EC2 boxen that I've seen21:28
@preactionyeah, they did it wrong. we have one, and we did it right21:29
SquOnkIs there are reason for the userSession table to grow unbounded?21:44
+perlDreamerSquOnk, what do you mean by that?21:45
+perlDreamerlots and lots of sessions?21:45
SquOnkperlDreamer: Yes. Old sessions not being removed ever.21:45
+perlDreamerWhat's the session timeout set to in settings?21:46
+perlDreamerand is the ExpireOldSessions workflow running?21:46
SquOnkperlDreamer: Let me check21:48
SquOnkperlDreamer: Session timeout is set at 5 minutes.21:50
+perlDreamerwhich version of WebGUI is it running?21:50
SquOnkI have Delete Expired Sessions in Hourly Maintenance, is that it?21:52
+perlDreameryes, make sure the cron job for that still exists21:52
SquOnkperlDreamer: It's there21:52
+perlDreamerwell, the most likely problem is that some activity is causing a problem so that the Delete Expired Sessions is never run21:53
+perlDreamerso webgui log file check next21:53
SquOnkBut looking at the code for DeleteExpiredSessions...21:53
SquOnk...there's no "DELETE FROM userSession" at all21:54
+perlDreamerno, that would be bad21:54
+perlDreamer"Use the API, SquOnk"21:54
SquOnkperlDreamer: Right.21:55
SquOnkperlDreamer: Use the API for the other confusing deletes there, then.21:55
+perlDreamerYou can't21:55
+perlDreamerit only does the direct SQL when there's breakage21:55
SquOnkperlDreamer: All right, so the probable cause is a previous activity not succeeding... I'll check into that.21:56
+perlDreameryou can also try running t/Workflow/Activity/DeleteExpiredSessions.t21:56
+perlDreamerand make sure it passes21:56
* perlDreamer takes a lunch break22:22
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Haargpreaction, new upgrade system doesn't have anything for stop versions right now23:02
SquOnkHaarg: 3-1 looks enough23:12
SquOnkHaarg: Netherlands over Uruguay, WC semi-finals23:14
SquOnkHaarg: But now I realize I wrote to the wrong window anyway...23:15
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+perlDreamerI could become a Netherlands soccer fan for a little while23:38
SquOnkperlDreamer: Meh... it was over for me when Germany crushed Argentina :923:39
SquOnk...worst defeat in WC since Netherlands beat us 4-0 in 197423:39
+perlDreameroy, much testing badness23:41
+perlDreamerthe tests don't work correctly on the WRE23:41
--- Day changed Wed Jul 07 2010
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SquOnkWhat does it mean for a workflow to be 'waiting 1'?00:22
SquOnkShows as 'running' but never ends...00:22
+perlDreamerthat's usually a signal that it was running00:22
+perlDreamerthen ran out of time, so it releases for a second00:23
+perlDreamerthen picks up again00:23
+perlDreamerif you have a huge backlog of sessions to delete, it could run for a very, very long time00:23
+perlDreamertry monitoring the number of sessions in userSession, and make sure they keep going down00:23
SquOnkperlDreamer: I see. So it's normal behaviour.00:23
+perlDreamerperhaps, yes00:23
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mducharme-laptopany idea on when there will be a 64-bit WRE?00:29
SquOnkperlDreamer: When you say 'picks up' you mean _restarts_ or _continues from the point where it was suspended_?00:30
+perlDreamerSquOnk, good question00:30
+perlDreamermducharme-laptop, no 64-bit WRE has been released00:30
+perlDreamerbut there are patches and contributions that show how to make one, onesself00:31
+perlDreamerSquOnk, it reinvokes the same query again00:31
+perlDreamerwhich means it starts scanning from the top of the list00:32
+perlDreamerbut there's no explicit order given00:32
+perlDreamerIt would probably be more efficient if it did something like...00:32
+perlDreamerselect sessionId, lastPageView from userSession where expires<? order by expires DESC00:32
+perlDreamerso that it starts from the "END" and works its way back to more recent sessions00:33
+perlDreamerSquOnk: is the number of sessions decreasing over time?00:33
SquOnkperlDreamer: Sloooowly. This site has a LOT of users coming in and out for very brief periods of time...00:34
SquOnkperlDreamer: ...with changing IP addresses.00:34
+perlDreamerare they logging in?00:34
SquOnkperlDreamer: Yes.00:35
SquOnkperlDreamer: They have to. It's an internet banking application.00:35
+perlDreamerand that's the reason for the strict 10 minute timeout00:36
+perlDreameruh, 5 minute session timeout00:36
SquOnkperlDreamer: Exactly00:36
+perlDreamerhow many sessions are in the table?00:37
SquOnkperlbot: 4690000:37
+perlDreamerwell, if you delete them directly with SQL, it will leave thousands of orphaned records in other tables which would all have to be cleaned up by hand00:38
+perlDreamerso I don't recommend that you do that00:38
+perlDreamerSpectre and WebGUI are trying to do the best they can to keep up with your influx and the strict timeout00:38
SquOnkperlDreamer: We did a truncate of the table on saturday :/00:40
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SquOnkperlDreamer: We had like 350k rows then00:40
SquOnkperlDreamer: Where should we look for cruft?00:41
SquOnkperlDreamer: We truncated that too.00:41
+perlDreamerby row, or by matchind sessionIds?00:41
SquOnkperlDreamer: truncate as in truncate everything :-)00:42
+perlDreamerthat would certainly do it :)00:42
+perlDreamerplaces to look for cruft00:42
+perlDreamer1) The query for selecting sessionIds00:43
+perlDreamerlike I suggested, it may be faster to sort them in reverse order and deal with them from the end each time00:43
SquOnkperlDreamer: How can we run the workflow "one shot" without it being interrupted and restarted?00:43
+perlDreamerI don't think it's the restarting that's killing you00:44
+perlDreamersince it will run for 55 seconds before hitting the timeout00:44
+perlDreamerand then sleep for 1 second00:44
+perlDreamerand then keep running until the activity returns done00:44
+perlDreamerhow many sessions is it closing, per second, on average?00:45
mducharme-laptopperlDreamer I know there are patches.. but it would be nice to have a compiled option00:48
mducharme-laptopme and my colleagues at other shops are only deploying 64-bit servers these days00:48
mducharme-laptop32-bit is so 20th century :)00:49
mducharme-laptopeven if the compiled option is only for one platform, like centos, at least that's something00:49
mducharme-laptopI'm running 32-bit wre on 64-bit centos 5.5 for now00:50
+perlDreamerwon't the 32-bit code run on the 64-bit servers?00:50
mducharme-laptopyup but there is a performance hit00:50
Haargin what way?00:51
mducharme-laptopat least the servers we have, they process 32-bit code more slowly than the matching 64-bit00:51
mducharme-laptopthere has been noticable improvement going from 32-bit apache and tomcat etc to 64-bit on servers.. I do not know how webgui would be impacted but I imagine similarly00:52
mducharme-laptopso, I think you should have more of an effort for official supported 64-bit00:54
mducharme-laptopthat is easy to install and does not require patches00:54
Haargwhat kind of servers are they?00:54
mducharme-laptopI have a bunch of IBM servers and sun servers00:54
mducharme-laptopI can really notice the performance difference going up to 64-bit00:55
mducharme-laptopI think that perhaps the servers are just so tweaked for running 64-bit code00:55
mducharme-laptopthat they do the 32-bit stuff more slowly00:55
+perlDreamerSquOnk, I see several places where repeated, chained method calls could be stripped out by using dedicated variables00:57
+perlDreamerbut I wouldn't want to make those kind of changes without some real performance data for comparisons00:57
mducharme-laptopI'm sure if you did some surveys you would find out that the majority of your users are mostly setting up 64-bit servers..00:58
mducharme-laptopfor new installs00:58
SquOnkperlDreamer: We've just cleaned up userSession and userSessionScratch by hand to about 300 sessions...00:59
SquOnkperlDreamer: ...and we'll see if the workflow can keep up01:00
SquOnkperlDreamer: We'll probably have to run it more often.01:00
Haargpreaction, perlDreamer, any opposition to merging my upgrades stuff?01:01
+perlDreamergiven how spectre works, that won't matter01:01
@preactiongo head01:01
+perlDreamerSquOnk, if you try to run it more often, and it's falling behind, it won't spawn more processes01:01
mducharme-laptopin fact, I would amost go so far to say that there is probably not much need anymore for a continued 32-bit version of the WRE..01:02
+perlDreamerSquOnk: it will keep running until there are no more sessions to clean up01:02
SquOnkperlDreamer: True. But if running it more frequently than hourly keeps the amount of work short, it has a better chance to keep up with the new sessions, don't you think?01:02
+perlDreamerbecause, once invoked, it will keep running until they are all cleaned up01:03
+perlDreamerrunning it more frequently is like the child in the back seat saying, "Are we there yet?"01:03
+perlDreamer"Are we there yet?"01:03
+perlDreamer"Are we there yet?"01:03
+perlDreamerno effect on throughput01:04
+perlDreamerthe factors affecting throughput are:01:04
+perlDreamerNumber of sessions created per second01:04
+perlDreamerNumber of sessions to clean up (set by session timeout - 5 minutes)01:04
+perlDreamerspeed of session cleanup (set by activity code)01:04
SquOnkperlDreamer: The activity code is based on iterating over the query result.01:05
+perlDreamerspeed of data being sorted by mysql01:05
SquOnkperlDreamer: If the query result is kept smaller it has a better chance of finishing than trying to iterate over an ever increasing data set.01:05
+perlDreamerSquOnk, exactly01:05
+perlDreamerbut attempting to reinvoke an activity that isn't done running yet won't help :)01:06
SquOnkperlDreamer: I understand that. My point is that running the cleanup more often than _hourly_ has a better chance of keeping the data set smaller.01:06
+perlDreamerSquOnk, no, it does not01:06
+perlDreamerevery hour, spectre will attempt to rerun the workflow01:06
+perlDreamerif it's still running from the previous hour, it won't do anythine extra01:07
+perlDreamerand that's the scenario that you just described01:07
SquOnkperlDreamer: So it's better to wait an hour for, say 1000 sessions to clean, than to run every 6 minutes hoping to clean 100 each run?01:07
+perlDreamerSquOnk, it's all rate dependent, yes?01:07
SquOnkperlDreamer: The overhead to handle 1000 rows is noticeable more than 100 rows.01:07
+perlDreamerI'm saying, let's not conjecture01:09
+perlDreamerLet's measure instead01:09
+perlDreamerand discuss data, instead of arguing opinions01:09
+perlDreamerwhat you're proposing would be a good experiment01:09
+perlDreamerbut my instincts are telling me that it won't make any difference, if spectre's rate of cleaning things up is way slower than the rate of session creation01:10
SquOnkperlDreamer: The workflow uses $sth->array...01:10
SquOnkperlDreamer: ...that has to pull the entire result set into a Perl array, not lazily and memory hungry.01:10
+perlDreamerthat pulls one row into an array01:10
mducharme-laptopthis is all to work around that bug that hasn't been found where the sessions dont get cleaned up?01:10
+perlDreamer$sth is an iterator01:10
SquOnkperlDreamer: Sorry, my bad01:10
* mducharme-laptop sets up a liferay portal01:11
+perlDreamerSquOnk, I could be wrong about that01:14
* perlDreamer is madly readying DBI pod01:14
SquOnkperlDreamer: DBD::mysql works with mysql_store_result by default which is memory hungry because it reads the _full_ query result.01:16
SquOnkperlDreamer: So, sth is an iterator over a big chunk of memory that has the whole dataset.01:16
+perlDreamerSquOnk, in that case, it's worth our time to limit the number of rows returned to a number that we know that WebGUI can handle in 55 seconds01:16
SquOnkIs there a way to cancel a workflow?01:18
+perlDreamerif you edit it, WebGUI will tell spectre to stop it, and reschedule it to run again01:18
+perlDreamerbut in this case, just stopping spectre should work fine01:19
+perlDreamerremember, spectre is the controller, and it calls WebGUI to do the heavy work01:19
+perlDreamerDBI says we can use something like this to limit the amount of data returned: http://gist.github.com/46600901:22
+perlDreamerbut who knows if DBD::mysql uses it or not?01:23
SquOnkperlDreamer: fetchrow_* happens above the result set. MySQL will have fetched everything to memory. It doesn't have real cursor or lazy reads like Pg.01:24
SquOnkperlDreamer: The only advantage would be no array-to-array copying inside Perl. The dataset will still be huge.01:24
SquOnkperlDreamer: If I stop spectre and start it again, the workflow is still there waiting to run again.01:26
+perlDreamerthe instance is still in the db01:26
SquOnkperlDreamer: That's what I meant by 'removing' :-)01:26
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* perlDreamer takes a bicycle break01:43
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SquOnkperlDreamer: We found the culprit. A missing index.02:20
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+perlDreamerSquOnk, spectre is keeping up (or ahead) now?02:56
SquOnkperlDreamer: The activity was too slow.03:03
SquOnkperlDreamer: So we added an index03:03
SquOnkcreate index on userloginlog ( sessionid )03:03
SquOnkperlDreamer: It flies now :-)03:03
+perlDreamergood to know03:03
SquOnkperlDreamer: Yes. That index is needed, definitely.03:04
SquOnkperlDreamer: We're running the activity every five minutes, takes a few _seconds_ to finish and cleans up roughly 25-30% of the expired sessions.03:05
SquOnkperlDreamer: And it also reduced the load on the database.03:05
SquOnkAll right, I gotta go :-)03:06
SquOnkperlDreamer: Talk to you later if I can.03:07
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r751aa21 / t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm : when intercepting logging for tests, set all test levels to be true. - http://bit.ly/cmM6Kl03:13
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r553b4cb / t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm : when intercepting logging for tests, set all test levels to be true. - http://bit.ly/9V8qNY03:13
+perlDreamerso much for one afternoon's time03:13
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbc33063 / (t/Search.t t/Search/Index.t): Use code that works with the WRE's mysql for detecting ft_min_word_len - http://bit.ly/bxKcDJ03:36
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r48cde5f / (t/Search.t t/Search/Index.t): Use code that works with the WRE's mysql for detecting ft_min_word_len - http://bit.ly/at44n003:36
+perlDreamerthat's not at all pleasant, either03:36
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r86ea723 / (121 files in 61 dirs): Preparing for 7.8.23 release - http://bit.ly/bKbYrw07:35
+perlDreamerstoopid demo sites!08:01
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r82e0fc7 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.24 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/bJxl4M08:22
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-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.8.23-stable | 7.9.8-beta | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com08:43
CIA-59webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * recec483 / lib/WebGUI/Paths.pm : prevent preloading of upgrade modules (+22 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/95FQK310:40
CIA-59webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * re530222 / lib/WebGUI/Config.pm : remove internal cache of WebGUI::Config objects - http://bit.ly/a5aUaB10:52
CIA-59webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r8943853 / (4 files in 4 dirs): remove code trying to prevent caching of config objects - http://bit.ly/9PYHCj10:52
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spacebatI'm wondering why the source install of webgui is said to run a lot slower than the binary packages11:01
spacebatif we're to use it, I doubt we'll be able to get new machines to do so, in which case we'd be running it on machines that already have a fairly extensive perl ecosystem11:03
spacebatalso we'd likely be hacking and pushing our own upgrades onto it, which makes me think the source install is what we'd want11:04
Haargit's basically just that the build options used for the wre are adjusted to work better with webgui11:05
Haargi doubt it makes much real difference though11:06
CIA-59webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * re4792fe / (19 files in 8 dirs): move var -> share - http://bit.ly/aESQLH11:07
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+perlDreamernice find, Haarg!17:51
@khennwhat are you supposed to add to your Moose class when you extend a non Moose class?17:57
+perlDreamerisn't is MooseX:Nonmoose, or something like that?17:58
@khennnot sure17:59
@khenntrying to find it on google17:59
@frodwithThere is a MooseX::NonMoose that is supposed to transparently handle any strangeness18:00
@khennah ok18:01
+perlDreamerkhenn, there are also Moose docs about extending non-Moose objects with Moose18:01
+perlDreamerstart with perldoc Moose::Manual18:01
@khennyeah I'm looking there now18:01
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@preactionokay, i've changed the WebGUI 8 ticket tracker to be postable / editable / closable by webgui 8 developers. if you need permissions, let me know18:25
@preactionHaarg: you can close and edit tickets now18:25
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra7b8d94 / share/upgrades/7.9.8-8.0.0/addMaintenancePageToConfig.pl : Fix syntax error in an upgrade script - http://bit.ly/ddRXEc18:50
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@scrottiehi everyone.  afk.19:25
+perlDreamerhowdy, scrottie19:31
+perlDreamerbreakfast, bbl19:46
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+perlDreamerhey, kimd!20:12
+perlDreamerHow was the move?20:12
kimdHey, pearldreamer! That was quick.20:12
kimdThe move was ok.20:12
kimdWe are still struggling with all the boxes.20:13
+perlDreamerdidn't you just move a little while ago?20:13
kimdAt least we are connected with the world again.20:13
kimdJun 21, actually. But it always takes longer than expected.20:13
kimdSo, what's up in the webgui world? 20:14
kimdDid I miss anything important?20:14
+perlDreamerLots of UTF-8 bugs20:14
+perlDreamersome fixed, some in progress20:14
+perlDreamerLots of WebGUI 8 work20:14
+perlDreamerpatspam, Haarg and preaction went to YAPC 2010, and came back full of new perly goodness20:15
kimdWhat does that mean exactly?20:15
kimdNew practices?20:15
+perlDreamerYes, and positive attitude and energy20:15
kimdThat's good. preaction seemed a bit fatalistic, recently.20:16
+perlDreamerHe's got a very hard job20:16
kimdI assume he has.20:16
kimdWebGUI 8 making good progress?20:16
kimdIs it possible to run it already?20:17
+perlDreamerthere's a new public page for tracking WebGUI8 work20:17
kimdI have seen that one.20:17
kimdI was wondering whether I should continue to work on the gallery or rather contribute to WebGUI 8.20:17
kimdWhat is your opinion on that?20:17
+perlDreamerwe'd love to have some help on 8, but there's a lot to learn20:18
+perlDreameryou may find yourself more productive on master20:18
kimdI am afraid I would not be very efficient.20:18
+perlDreameron our side, we're not concerned about efficiency20:18
+perlDreamerbut we don't want to burn you out20:18
kimdMy regular job is already good for that.20:19
kimdI will have very little time in the near future anyhow.20:19
+perlDreamer$dayJob really busy?20:19
kimdTowards the end of the year it should get better.20:19
+perlDreamerand didn't you move another time, within the last year or so?20:19
kimdExtreme. Vacation time at the moment and we need to fill all the gaps.20:19
kimdI did. The current job is a lot safer and better paid.20:20
kimdIt was a good decision.20:20
kimdHowever, I have more responsibility and need to work a lot.20:20
kimdSometimes, I wished I could hide somewhere and just do what I love to do.20:21
kimdNo more time for lab work. It's all desk work now.20:21
kimdStill, no reason to complain.20:21
kimdWhat about you? Business going well? Kids developing?20:21
+perlDreamerKids just learned to ride bicycles20:22
+perlDreamerso we've gone out almost every day on rides20:22
kimdHey! That is probably exciting.20:22
kimdI like that.20:22
+perlDreamermy older boy and I are planning on doing "The Bridge Pedal" in Portland20:22
kimdWe live now near the black forest, btw.20:22
kimdGood terrain for bike tours.20:22
kimd Nice. I hope it's a webgui site.20:23
+perlDreamerno :(20:23
kimdThen you should boycott.20:24
+perlDreamerI'm a strong WebGUI fan, but I'm a larger Peter Kuskie fan20:25
+perlDreamerthe boy wants to bike, and that's something we encourage :)20:25
kimdAlright. I get your point. I think we can have an exception there. But only this time!!!20:26
kimdEnjoy the ride.20:26
+perlDreamerwe're going to do the 5 bridge ride20:26
+perlDreamerit will be very fun20:26
kimdThink about buying a tandem. It's fun.20:27
+perlDreamerWe used to use trailer bikes, which are tandem attachments for kids20:27
+perlDreamerbut they got big, and heavy20:27
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kimdThat is exactly what I was having in mind. Have seen it before on the streets.20:29
kimdI definitely want one for me and my daughter.20:29
kimdCan't wait for it.20:29
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SquOnkperlDreamer: The index made the difference.20:31
+perlDreamerSquOnk: if you file a bug for that, I'll add it to the core on bugfixing day next week.20:32
SquOnkperlDreamer: All right.20:32
SquOnkperlDreamer: I'll do it after lunch.20:32
+perlDreamerkimd, Trek makes a trailer bike attachment20:32
+perlDreamerI happen to have two used ones, but I'd guess it'd be cheaper to buy one in Germany rather than ship it to you20:32
+perlDreamerthey are bulky, and relatively heavy20:33
kimdProbably. I need to check which brands they sell over here.20:33
kimdIt can't be that expensive. But sometimes you are surprised.20:33
kimdWe can have a trailer exchange once we bought one.20:33
kimdI mean, in terms of experience.20:34
+perlDreamerwe just went down to the local bike shop and bought them20:34
+perlDreamerbicycling is very popular in portland20:34
kimdWill check. There are many bike stores around.20:35
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+perlDreamerI need a Property metaclass name that means, "Does not get written to the db", so that we can have read/write methods in objects that are object only, like $cart->error21:30
+perlDreamerany suggestions?21:31
@preactionhas? why does it need to be a property?21:32
+perlDreamerI wrote some sloppy write methods that essentially do21:32
+perlDreamer$self->session->db->setRow(table, identifier, $self->get());21:32
+perlDreamerand I need a way to distinguish which object attributes get persisted to the db, and which don't21:33
+perlDreamerfor example, the cart has an attribute for storing an error21:33
+perlDreamerthat never gets written to the db21:33
+perlDreamerI don't want to stuff it into the object hash directly21:33
+perlDreamerso I need a way to tag it21:33
+perlDreamerwe have a way to tag attributes to work with set, Definition::Meta::Settable21:34
+perlDreamerooh!  Definition::Meta::Writable21:34
@preactionwhy would self->get return anything that was not created with a property keyword?21:34
@preactionwell, property or define keyword21:34
+perlDreamerwe do things like $self->get('lineage')21:35
+perlDreamerwhich is defined with has21:35
+perlDreamerare you going nutz, preaction?21:43
thepacmanfanis http://www.america.gov/ still running on WebGUI?21:44
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@preactionthepacmanfan: view-source, look for <meta name="generator" value="WebGUI X.X.X" />21:45
thepacmanfanniiiiiice. magic :P21:46
thepacmanfanso i'm looking for a CMS to run alongside Magento.21:53
thepacmanfanat this point i'm looking at Drupal, MODx, and WebGUI.21:54
+perlDreamerwhat kind of features are you looking for in a CMS?21:56
thepacmanfanit's for a manufacturer. it'll primarily be static content (product spec pages with fluff), with lots of images and embedded videos. we have a wordpress blog, but we may end up wanting to integrate the blog with the CMS down the road.21:56
thepacmanfanwe don't want a clunky back end (i'm looking at you, Joomla)21:57
@rizendoesn't magento have a built in CMS?21:57
@rizenthe reason i ask is, what features are you looking for that it doesn't have?21:57
+perlDreamerWebGUI has a built-in commerce system.  It's not as feature-full as magento's, but it uses all of the WebGUI permissions, users, groups and templating system21:57
thepacmanfanrizen, it does, but i hate to box ourselves in by doing CMS stuff in an ecommerce app21:58
@rizenfair enough21:59
thepacmanfanMagento makes it dificult to put out "just content" pages21:59
@rizenthat's sort of like the ecommerce system in webgui21:59
@rizenit's there if you need simple ecommerce21:59
@rizenwith your cms21:59
+perlDreameryou've got CMS in my Ecommerce!21:59
@rizenso it's probably the inverse with magento21:59
+perlDreamer__you've__ got Ecommerce in my CMS22:00
thepacmanfanyou have to dump your content into a static block, and associate that block with a category, to get your content page on the menu22:00
@rizeni see22:00
thepacmanfanrizen: it would do what we wanted if it didn't want you to associate any prominent content with a category22:00
thepacmanfanbut oh well22:01
@rizenwell webgui can almost certainly handle any content management problem you throw at it. people have billions of pages of content in their WebGUI sites22:01
@rizenBillions isn't an exaggeration btw. We have some clients that are approaching a billion pages by themselves.22:01
thepacmanfanso one of my biggest concerns is themeing... the Magento and CMS integrations need to be seamless.22:02
thepacmanfanbillions? holy cow. nice.22:02
+perlDreamerWebGUI's style is templatable22:02
@rizenwebgui can look like anything22:03
@rizenthe sightings page can show you just how different they can look22:03
thepacmanfanmost of those aren't that notable to be... america.gov looks awesome22:03
+perlDreamerit won't use the same templating system as Magento, but that's just a question of coding and maintenance22:03
thepacmanfanbut i see a flexibility there22:03
thepacmanfan*to me22:03
thepacmanfanwell, i guess at this point i might as well install it and get my hands dirty22:04
thepacmanfandoes it run on Lightspeed?22:05
@preactionit's apache/mod_perl specifically, but the WRE's install uses a reverse proxy to the mod_perl httpd22:06
thepacmanfanwhat is WRE?22:06
+perlDreamerWebGUI Runtime Enviroment22:06
@preactionWebGUI Runtime Environment, a recommended way to install and run WebGUI22:06
thepacmanfanhmm, we probably won't want to run it on our Magento server then.22:06
thepacmanfanthanks for the info :)22:07
@preactionlitespeed themselves recommend using litespeed to reverse proxy to an apache/mod_perl instance22:07
thepacmanfantrue, i'd forgotten about that22:08
thepacmanfanare there any particular reasons you prefer WebGUI over MODx?22:08
+perlDreamerWebGUI has a huge set of built-in applications22:09
+perlDreamerthat all talk to one another22:09
@preactionand those built-in apps are fully-supported22:09
@preactionhttp://turnkeye.com/blog/2010/04/nginx-vs-litespeed-test-magento/ <- benchmarks of magento on nginx vs. litespeed22:10
@rizenalso, all of webgui's templating is web based22:10
@rizenand last thing i knew, you had to edit PHP files directly on the server for MODx22:10
@rizenit makes templating a lot easier for regular peeps22:10
@preactionno PHP or Perl required to edit templates in webgui.22:11
@preactionjust HTML22:11
thepacmanfanhmm... that might be nice22:11
thepacmanfani'm so used to Magento's system, i feel like i can jump into anything now22:12
thepacmanfanbut either way22:12
@rizenthe only down side to webgui is that it's so big that there is a small but managable learning curve22:12
thepacmanfani think i will give WebGUI a try22:12
@preactionyou'd have the same curve in anything else22:12
thepacmanfandoes it look like it'll stay active for years to come?22:13
+perlDreamerwe sure hope so!22:13
@rizenit's been alive since June 200122:13
@rizenso no reason that it wouldn't continue22:13
@rizenand it has a huge user base22:13
thepacmanfanthe forums and IRC look relatively quiet...22:13
@rizenour users are mostly business customers, and therefore aren't very active in the community22:14
@rizenmost of the activity is in the paid support forums22:14
+perlDreamerand the bug board22:14
@rizenyeah, and the bug board22:14
+perlDreamerand recently, the RFE board22:14
thepacmanfani see22:14
@rizenyou could try it before you install it at http://demo.webgui.org22:15
@rizenpost back here if you have questions during the demo22:16
thepacmanfanare you part of the team?22:16
@preactionwe're also hard at work on a major version upgrade, http://webgui.org/822:16
thepacmanfancool :)22:16
@preactionanyone here in #webgui with +o (@ in front of the name) is an employee of Plain Black Corp, the holders of the copyright to WebGUI22:16
thepacmanfanthat's a nice change from Magento!22:16
thepacmanfanhow many total devs work on it?22:17
+perlDreamerThe webgui wiki also has a bunch of information about setting up and using WebGUI22:17
@preactionwe've got 5, plus perlDreamer, kimd, patspam, and haarg22:17
+perlDreamerand MrHairgrease, SynQ, joeri, the Knowmad team22:17
+perlDreamerrogier, martien22:17
@preactionhaven't heard much from the Dutch teams recently, but there are at least 6 devs there (among the businesses that use WebGUI)22:18
+perlDreamerI think they're as busy as we are22:18
+perlDreamerlots of WebGUI mobile work, if anything can be gleaned from their upcoming conference talks22:19
@preactionmost likely, things are looking up in the economy, people looking to repair websites they were unable to repair previously22:19
+perlDreamerthepacmanfan: the WebGUI Primer is a good booklet for an introduction to WebGUI, and it's downloadable and free22:19
thepacmanfanalright, thanks perlDreamer 22:19
thepacmanfanbrb. coke time. ;)22:20
@preactionand of course, we're always here, though most of us are on US time22:20
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re5a2af0 / t/Shop/Vendor.t : Add test for new with properties. - http://bit.ly/9BBNLa22:26
thepacmanfanyeah, i'm here 8-4 CST so that works well :)22:30
+perlDreamerwhat kind of manufacturing are you in?22:32
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r416f62f / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Vendor.pm t/Shop/Vendor.t): Fix problems with Moose style object creation. - http://bit.ly/b6MZ4J22:32
thepacmanfanconcrete engraving tools and supplies22:32
thepacmanfanelectric saws, air chisel tools, recirculating sandblasters, etc22:33
+perlDreamerthat's an unusual one22:33
thepacmanfanyeah, it's a bit of a niche market, i think. very cool company, though22:34
thepacmanfanwe market to contractors who engrave and stain existing concrete, as opposed to most companies that can only do stuff with new concrete22:35
+perlDreamerthat would definitely give them an advantage in bidding22:37
+perlDreamerit's way cheaper to rework what you have, rather then rip up what's there and pour in new22:37
+perlDreamerto get color, or textures and shapes22:37
thepacmanfanyeah... one area it really shines is guys that are out there laying paving stone22:37
+perlDreamerlike for walkways and patios?22:38
thepacmanfanand driveways even22:39
* perlDreamer takes a lunch break. Be back in a little while.22:39
thepacmanfanlots of stone layers have to tear out old concrete before they can put down sand and lay pavers... well, one i talked to a while back said he currently bids that work at $25-30/sq ft.... the dude was all excited because he could just get a saw and a few attachments, and cut grooves and stain the existing concrete instead of tearing it out22:40
thepacmanfanhe fully expected his costs would drop by 300-400%, and he could drop his prices by 25-30% and pocket the remainder... and of course make a killing ;)22:41
thepacmanfanerr, his costs would drop ~75%22:42
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SquOnkperlDreamer: Hey there. Just filed the bug :-)23:04
+perlDreamerthanks, SquOnk!23:18
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+perlDreamerpreaction: back to Roles and attributes and get23:46
+perlDreamerMaybe we should mark them at Gettable, instead of assuming that they can all be used?23:46
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+perlDreameractually, it would be better to assume that everything is gettable, and we should mark those to exclude23:51
@preactionno, it would be better to mark the properties in the database, but i don't know23:53
@preactionwe're tripping over everything because we just had to keep the schema as-is...23:53
+perlDreamermaybe this is an issue I'm creating by the way I'm moving things from Class::InsideOut to Moose23:55
+perlDreamerthe classic WebGUI object has23:55
+perlDreamersession and properties23:56
+perlDreamerget returns properties, update/set sets propeties and may also write it to the db23:56
+perlDreamerwhen I moved it Moose, I flattened it23:56
+perlDreamerget already manually screens out session, but now it has to screen out arbitrary attributes23:57
+perlDreamerthat's why I thought of marking things as Gettable, Settable, Writable23:57
@preactionyou mean update/set has to screen them out23:57
CIA-59WebGUI: translation * r12529 /translations/German/German/ (Auth_Twitter.pm Asset_Post.pm Shop.pm Asset_Thingy.pm): Updating German on translation server23:57
+perlDreamerpreaction, set uses the Settable property to screen stuff23:57
@preactionget won't cause an error if something isn't gettable, update/set will23:57
+perlDreamerah, but when get is used to return a hash, it checks for all attributes23:58
+perlDreamerwhich could return a session object23:58
+perlDreamerand pass it to the template23:58
+perlDreamerand in TT, that's bad23:58
@preactionokay, wait, let's back up here. what is the real problem?23:58
+perlDreamerI think we're getting there :)23:58
@preactionwe aren't using TT, we don't need to care about it23:58
+perlDreamersidebar, isn't TT planned for 8.0-alpha?23:58
@preactioni don't. we started at "A property that shouldn't be written to the database"23:59
+perlDreamerbut it's an optional plugin anyway23:59
--- Day changed Thu Jul 08 2010
+perlDreamerand get has never returned session before, and it shouldn't start now00:01
+perlDreamerin any case, the general problem00:01
+perlDreamerWebGUI needs a way to mark attributes as being gettable or not, settable or not, and probably, writable to the db, or not00:02
+perlDreamergettable, settable, persistable00:02
+perlDreamergettable, for blocking things that shouldn't be gotten, like session (any class) or error (Shop/Cart)00:03
+perlDreamersettable, for things like lineage, parentId, etc in Asset00:03
@preactionwhy shouldn't error be gotten?00:03
@preactionsettable == Moose's readonly?00:03
+perlDreamerthat may work00:04
+perlDreamererror is a problem because I wrote a schlocky write method for Shop/Cart00:04
+perlDreamer$self->session->db->setRow(table, identifier, $self->get());00:04
+perlDreamerbut that can be fixed by getting all the attributes, and checking them 1 by 100:04
CIA-59WebGUI: translation * r12530 /translations/German/German/Shop.pm: Updating German on translation server00:11
CIA-59WebGUI: translation * r12531 /translations/German/German/Auth_Twitter.pm: Updating German on translation server00:11
carograyhead tags in metadata of page/article and assets on page?00:23
+perlDreamersay what, carogray?00:23
carograyI just put Martinez v. Astrue in the head tags under the metadata for a whole branch of pages00:23
carograyedited the branch00:23
carograywhen I look at the source code 00:24
carograyI get00:24
carograyMartinez v. Astrue settlement Martinez v. Astrue settlementMartinez v. Astrue settlementMartinez v. Astrue settlementMartinez v. Astrue settlementMartinez v. Astrue settlement00:24
carograyonly wanted it once00:24
carograywhat should I have done?00:24
+perlDreamereach asset has a chance to put their own metadata into the head tags00:24
@preactionall of a Page Layout's assets' metadata are added to the full page00:24
+perlDreamerso maybe just put it into the Page Layouts, and not the other kinds of assets00:24
carograyaah ok thought that might be it, just wanted confirmation thanks00:25
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+perlDreamerHaarg, I'm getting test failures for many of the newly merged modules01:32
+perlDreamerPaths, Upgrades01:32
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra1f1bf4 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm t/Shop/Cart.t): 01:32
CIA-59webgui: Move Cart to Moose.01:32
CIA-59webgui: Remove the global AddressBook cache, replace it with a per-object cache. Merge create into01:32
CIA-59webgui: new, but leave a create stub for legacy code. - http://bit.ly/bnF62B01:32
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re617567 / t/Whitespace.t : The first line of a file is allowed to be POD. Change initial conditions of internal flags to allow this. - http://bit.ly/a5eJQ501:36
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra60a2cc / sbin/testEnvironment.pl : Document new module required for testing. - http://bit.ly/bScY4X01:40
+perlDreamersorry, Haarg.  The undocumented module got me.01:44
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4cbbed3 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm : Allow creationDate to be settable in the Cart. - http://bit.ly/cIA8XN01:53
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CIA-59WebGUI: translation * r12532 /translations/Swedish/ (20 files in 2 dirs): Updating Swedish on translation server17:49
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+perlDreamermorning, folks19:00
* perlDreamer prepares to wreak havoc with the AddressBook API19:24
+perlDreamerhey, thepacmanfan!19:25
+perlDreamerdid you have a chance to check out the demo server for WebGUI?19:25
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+perlDreameryo, SquOnk19:35
SquOnkperlDreamer: The index thing... huge win!19:40
+perlDreamerawesome.  We'll put it into 7.9.9 core, and 7.8.24 the week after19:40
SquOnkperlDreamer: Now I'm escalating the json.js license thing... the original author is, well, "uncooperative"19:42
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+perlDreameras preaction mentioned in "the bug that is not a bug", isn't YUI already in Debian?19:42
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9ebcc0a / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/AddressBook.pm lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm): Finish C::IO cleanup, strip out create guts. - http://bit.ly/bhIbNv19:45
+perlDreamerHaarg, preaction, should we have a GUID type for Moose.20:20
+perlDreamerI'd like to have one, because I'm seeing places where we want a userId, but don't allow the userId to be visitor20:20
+perlDreamerlike in the AddressBook20:21
SquOnkperlDreamer: I wrote to the bug with additional details.20:21
SquOnkperlDreamer: Yes, YUI is in Debian. Yes, Debian's YUI has been tagged with that as a bug.20:22
SquOnkperlDreamer: I just opened a ticket on YUI 2.8.1 to see if they fix that for 2.8.220:22
+perlDreamerWhat does it mean when you say "Debian must provide pristine sources"?20:22
SquOnkperlDreamer: Unmodified sources.20:22
SquOnkperlDreamer: Exactly what you provide for download.20:23
SquOnkperlDreamer: In general, exactly what upstream provides for download for any given package distributed by Debian.20:23
SquOnkperlDreamer: When I download from WebGUI's site, I rename it to webgui_7.8.23.orig.tar.gz20:23
SquOnkperlDreamer: My packaging is a patch pristine sources.20:24
+perlDreamerso, a Debian package for WebGUI would have our YUI, plus whatever patches Debian adds to it20:24
SquOnkperlDreamer: My patch _removes_ the YUI part from the _binary_ and links to Debian's YUI package.20:24
SquOnkperlDreamer: But the pristine source still have the oddly licensed file.20:24
SquOnkperlDreamer: Debian must provide the binary _and_ the source. But the source is rendered non-free by that single file.20:25
+perlDreamerI applaud Debian's commitment to it's own rules, but it seems over the top in this case20:25
+perlDreamerAnything as vague as "Do no evil" would never stand up to the rigor applied to the GPL20:25
+perlDreamerevil is relative20:26
SquOnkperlDreamer: There's always someone that finds it over the top :-)20:26
SquOnkperlDreamer: That's the problem. Being vague renders it non-free.20:26
SquOnkperlDreamer: What you consider Good might be considered Evil by me.20:26
SquOnkperlDreamer: And every villain is a hero in his own movie ;-)20:26
@preactionsomeone could litigate that clause, that's the problem20:26
@preaction"The US Government uses WebGUI! They're evil! They're not allowed to use YUI!"20:27
+perlDreamerusually, vague language is thrown out by courts20:27
SquOnkperlDreamer: Turns out that clause was sort of a 'joke' on the "let's fight Evil" proposition of GWB.20:27
SquOnkperlDreamer: Then the software doesn't have a license, thus it becomes unusable without clarification.20:27
SquOnkperlDreamer: And the owner of the copyright just answered (in writing) "if you don't like my license, don't use the software".20:28
SquOnkperlDreamer: Even funny: about three months ago he posted a replacement that's in the Public Domain... but didn't announce it nor mentioned it in the many places he's been bugged about it.20:29
SquOnkperlDreamer: As I said, I just filed a bug with YUI. Let see how it goes.20:29
SquOnkperlDreamer: The Debian bugs are 'RC' (Release Critical) meaning there will be no Debian stable release unless those bugs are resolved or changed priority. I don't think their priorities will change in the foreseeable future, though.20:30
+perlDreamerso no Debian stable until YUI fixes this20:30
SquOnkperlDreamer: And there are a _lot_ of bugs on Perl modules, JavaScript libraries, PHP applications and whatnot using the same json.js20:30
SquOnkperlDreamer: Or no YUI, WebGUI in Debian stable unless those bugs get fixed.20:31
SquOnkperlDreamer: The Release Team has the ability to pull packages out of the release if the pending RC bugs don't have a clear resolution.20:31
Haargpreaction, did we ever decide what we wanted to do wrt invalid GUIDs?20:31
SquOnk...any RC bug, not only licensing-related ones.20:31
+perlDreamerno YUI, WebGUI, perl modules, JS libs, PHP apps, ruby apps, etc20:32
@preactionSquOnk: w/o yui in stable, webgui can't work. we're trying to get rid of that dependency, but it's gonna take time20:32
+perlDreamerpreaction, what would we in place of YUI?20:33
@preactionperlDreamer: YUI from CDN20:33
SquOnkpreaction: Oh, but it will get solved...20:33
@preactioninstalling YUI locally is optional20:33
SquOnk...see it's just _one_ file in an _example_.20:33
SquOnkIt's not even part of the YUI api.20:33
@preactionso problem solved, delete the entire examples directory20:34
@preactionwe certainly do not need it20:34
SquOnkpreaction: In WebGUI's tarball, yes.20:34
@preactionsounds good to me. objections from anyone else?20:34
SquOnkpreaction: In YUI, get rid of that file or replace with the alternative I suggested.20:34
@preactionreally, why are they using that json.js when YUI includes a completely different JSON API20:35
SquOnkpreaction: Beats me. Hopefully, they'll notice with my bug and get rid of it :-)20:35
@preactionbetter idea, i'm an attention whore, so i'll do it and ask for a pull20:36
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6d03092 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Convert AddressBook to Moose. - http://bit.ly/chCstY20:37
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1193785 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/AddressBook.pm : Remove C::IO line - http://bit.ly/bM8RC620:38
+perlDreamerevery single Cart module uses Class::InsideOut20:40
thepacmanfandid i understand correctly that a source install will not run on LiteSpeed?21:08
@preactionWebGUI runs on Apache/mod_perl only at the moment21:09
@preactionthe 8.x branch runs on Plack, which you would reverse proxy from litespeed (same as apache/mod_perl, but much faster and more resource efficient)21:10
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@khennis WikiMasterKeywords a new table (new in WebGUI 7.8+) ?21:28
@khennit must be21:29
@khennnot in 7.7.3121:29
@preactionit's a 7.9 feature21:31
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MrHairgrease1Has anybody ever heard of cs's putting aache in a endless loop?22:40
MrHairgrease1ie. 100% cpu tme for ever and ever22:40
MrHairgrease1in the child process22:41
MrHairgrease1this is in 7.7.3322:41
MrHairgrease1bt it's hard to reproduce22:41
@khennnot seen it23:00
@khennI have a site running around 300 CSs on 7.7.31 and never had that issue pop up23:00
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SquOnkperlDreamer: http://yuilibrary.com/projects/yui2/ticket/252903723:35
SquOnkperlDreamer: They're on to it. I'm betting they will simply delete the thing :-)23:35
+perlDreamersounds good to me!23:35
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SquOnkperlDreamer: The bug has been dealt with :-)00:53
SquOnkperlDreamer: It's set for YUI 2.9.000:53
SquOnkperlDreamer: ...and they just deleted it <g>00:54
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+perlDreamerpreaction: what are the rules for using MySQL syntax?01:03
@preactionrules? what do you need to do?01:04
+perlDreamerI did this in an upgrade, CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS WikiMasterKeywords01:04
+perlDreamerand someone's reporting that it didn't work01:04
@preactionare you sure it was a problem?01:04
@preactionare you sure he didn't just miss the error in the upgrade that happened?01:05
+perlDreamerbut I can't think of what else may have happened01:05
+perlDreamer'tis possible, but how to prove it?01:05
@preactionit worked fine for me a couple weeks ago01:05
+perlDreamerI reran the whole upgrade, from 7.9.0 to 7.9.9, and it worked fine01:05
+perlDreamerbut that's with very new MySQL01:06
@preactiontry going back to 7.7.31?01:06
+perlDreamerI'll do that next, after i close out a ticket01:06
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+perlDreamerHaarg, is there any way to remove all tags in a repo, and reimport them all from the remote origin?01:57
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ckotilI think one of my users found a bug with tinymce. when adding a link to an image, then center it, then turn off centering. it looses the link. 16:25
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thepacmanfani have to have root access to run the WRE, right?17:29
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SDuensinOnly if you want to use ports < 1000 (or is it 1024?).17:36
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SDuensinMine all runs as "webgui".17:38
thepacmanfanyeah, but i have to have root access to create a new user don't i?17:41
thepacmanfani'm just trying to figure out if i can run WRE on a bog standard shared hosting account.17:41
SDuensinProbably not.17:41
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thepacmanfanoh, i guess i need root access to install from source, either....17:44
thepacmanfanthat's a Big Deal.17:44
SDuensinWebGUI really isn't fit for a low-end web host.17:44
thepacmanfanwonder if Drupal would run better...17:45
SDuensinHey, watch your language.  :-P17:45
thepacmanfan:o sorry17:45
SDuensinHonestly though, Drupal was designed with low-end hosting in mind.17:45
thepacmanfani'm afraid it's going to be like pulling teeth to get a VPS just for WebGUI.17:46
* SDuensin is glad to be off Drupal & Joomla, personally.17:46
thepacmanfanyeah, i was looking forward to trying WebGUI... however, i need a CMS that can run on shared hosting.17:46
SDuensinThere are quite a few WebGUI hosts that take care of running the software for you.  PlainBlack, myself, etc.17:47
thepacmanfandid you prefer Drupal or Joomla?17:48
SDuensinThat's like asking if I'd rather be shot or stabbed.17:49
thepacmanfanwell, generally i'd rather be stabbed than shot, but that's just me ;)17:49
SDuensinDrupal seems more mature, but we just didn't see eye-to-eye.17:49
thepacmanfani see17:50
thepacmanfananything else out there that you'd consider?17:50
SDuensinAre you trying to stay within a budget or just as low as you can go?17:51
SDuensinOutside WebGUI?  Not that I've found.  I look all the time just to keep up with what else is out there.  I remain WebGUI's #1 fan.  :-)17:51
thepacmanfani don't have a particular budget, but i'd have to get approval for it, which will be kind of tricky just for a development server at this point17:54
SDuensinRun it in a VM.  How long do you need a test/dev box?17:55
thepacmanfanlooking at Plain Black's hosting, we'll need the Mini VPS, but that's way above what we want to spend.17:55
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thepacmanfani'd be looking for < $50/mo17:55
thepacmanfanbut i would be tempted just to pick up a VPS from ServInt and run it myself17:55
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SDuensinI do WebGUI hosting for $30.  Just WebGUI and DNS though.  Nothing fancy.17:56
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thepacmanfanhmm... we may try a VPS. that way we can run other sites on it too.18:21
SDuensinYup.  WebGUI is worth it.  :-D18:21
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+perlDreamerthepacmanfan, if you go with a VPS, just intstall the very minimum on the OS, drop in the WRE, and you're good to go18:33
+perlDreamerthere are OS specific install notes in the WRE18:33
+perlDreamerlike, on Red Hat-like OSes, you have to install libgomp18:33
thepacmanfanit's running CentOS 5... <3 CentOS18:33
+perlDreamerThere was a poll from last year, and CentOS was the most popular OS for hosting WebGUI18:34
thepacmanfani'm pretty comfortable with CentOS these days... but maybe i'm kidding myself18:35
+perlDreamerI used RedHat and Fedora for over 10 years, then I switched over to Ubuntu18:40
+perlDreamerthere's even a WebGUI package in Debian18:42
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+perlDreamernow, where's my beer?18:55
SDuensinI'm on MegaUpload.com reading their FAQ and had an interesting thought...  For $199 you can get unlimited up/down/storage for life.  Why has no-one used this as a filesystem yet?18:56
+perlDreamer because it's $200?18:57
@preactionbecause nobody's written the fuse plugin for it?18:57
+perlDreamerHaarg: http://gist.github.com/46964118:59
+perlDreamerPaths.t fails18:59
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfc345f5 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/AddressBook.pm : Fix some POD typos, copy/paste. - http://bit.ly/bsLnW419:05
@preactionwow, merging 7.9 with 8 is ever so much fun!19:24
+perlDreamerdude, don't do that19:24
+perlDreamerI'll take care of it next wednesday, after the release19:24
@preactioni need it to continue, otherwise i can't do anything until then19:25
@preactioni put some stuff in 7.9 because it could, but it's really needed for 819:25
@preactionthat way it'll be better vetted when the time comes19:25
+perlDreamerwell, it's been vetted twice so far19:59
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+perlDreamerscrottie, is that Arizone slang for TGIF?20:30
@scrottiehmm.  not exactly.20:31
@scrottieI'm very confused.  as usual.  and I'm sitting in a coffee shop in San Francisco.  which is unusual.20:31
+perlDreameryes, San Francisco not being in Arizona20:32
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+perlDreamerbut what are you confused about?20:37
@scrottie $asset->getStorageLocation->getPath($asset->get('filename')) isn't matching where the files are actually stored.  I have something inconsistent here.  actually, two things aren't jivving.  even what comes back for filename often doesn't exist in the copy on dusk.  yet, somehow, the same of stuff I rsync'd down appears to work.  there's stuff in the photo gallery.20:37
@scrottiemaybe Frank changed what's on the dusk and stuff changed that much between snapshots, but I have a hard time imagining FileAsset records changing that much unless they completely deleted and recreated galleries.20:38
+perlDreamerevery version has a new storage location20:38
@scrottieokay.  would WebGUI::Asset::File::GalleryFile::Photo likely ever get versions?20:38
+perlDreamerif someone edited it20:39
@scrottiephotos seem like something that would be uploaded, approved, then ignored.20:39
+perlDreamertitles and descriptions change20:39
+perlDreamerin general you're right20:39
+perlDreamerbut we're talking about the behavior of users20:39
+perlDreamerwhich falls into a finite distribution between "mostly predicatble" and "why did they do that"20:40
@scrottieno, what you're saying is helpful.  I needed to loosen my premises, and in a direction I almost suspected.20:40
+perlDreamerone way to check that is to look at the revisionDates in the db20:40
@scrottiethis almost makes sense but attempts to confirm my understanding keep contradicting my understanding.20:40
@scrottiehaving assetData.revisionDate = max(assetData.revisionDate) ... I've been doing that a lot.20:41
@scrottiein fact, looking at the SQL output, I was kinda wanting to change code around to do that to combine queries down.20:41
+perlDreamerthe only sure way to take a synchronized snapshot of a site is to shut off Apache and spectre, then take a db dump and a copy of the uploads20:41
+perlDreamerscrottie, all core changes require tests20:42
+perlDreamerso tread carefully :)20:42
@scrottieI don't have logins to the dev or production machines.  all I have to work with is Frank's dumps.20:42
@scrottieyeah.  this was slightly blue-sky.  if I can't find my arse with both hands, I'm certainly not going to go changing stuff.20:42
@scrottie"it would be easier to rewrite this than to figure it out" is an insult I save for very bad code =)20:43
@preactionscrottie: uh, why don't you have logins yet?20:43
@scrottieI'm going to decline to answer that question.20:43
@scrottieif it's okay.20:43
+perlDreamerscrottie, that would be taking the 25th20:44
@scrottielet's just say that the reasons are the same as why I'm asking Colin alumni questions.20:44
+perlDreamerthe right not to incriminate oneself in an open IRC channel :)20:44
@scrottieI know the first rule of IRC (never IRC drunk, ie, don't be Randal) but I'm not sure of 2..24.20:45
+perlDreamerrule #2 is "Don't ask for permission to ask, just ask"20:45
+perlDreamerrule #3 is "Be patient waiting for answers"20:45
+perlDreamerrule #4 is "Be polite"20:46
@scrottiedon't paste.20:46
@scrottiedon't hang out in #netsex and a work channel at the same time because eventually you will ww.20:46
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@scrottieand hitting #netsex with code is a complete buzz kill.20:47
+perlDreamerRead the FAQ, wiki and search the forums20:49
@scrottie$asset->getLineage(['descendants'], { returnObjects => 1, } ) ... the objects I get from that I would expect to be able to do getStorageLocation on and have a file.20:54
@preactionyes, they're just instantiated assets of the most recent revision (depending on your version tag)20:55
@scrottiejust like the query finding the latest revision, it should be the latest revision...20:56
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+perlDreamerscrottie, that's "the latest revision this user can see"21:00
+perlDreamerpending version tags and such21:00
@scrottieoh, I have to look for approved status21:01
+perlDreamernot necessarily21:01
+perlDreamerif the user can see a pending version tag, then they should see the assets in it21:01
@scrottieupdate asset set className = 'WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Layout::AlumniLayout' where className = 'WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::AlumniLayout'; # I'm about to that.  that just reeks of desperation.21:25
@scrottiejust thought I'd share.21:26
@preactionperlDreamer: is WebGUI::Test->cleanupAdminInbox a new thing or something that was removed in 8?21:29
+perlDreamershould not have been removed in 8, probably not merged in yet21:29
+perlDreamereither that, or it's been  moved somewhere21:29
@preactionokay, so i messed up a bit21:29
+perlDreamerbut I ran the whole suite this morning, and all the expected tests passed21:29
+perlDreamerit's way easy to do21:30
+perlDreamerthat's why i'm going to do it every two weeks from now on21:30
+perlDreamerso they don't diverge so far again21:30
+perlDreameralso so Haarg doesn't get stuck dealing with all the indenting and session work that I keep doing21:31
+perlDreamerthat was totally not fair to do to him21:31
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* perlDreamer takes an extended lunch break21:55
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* perlDreamer is back23:38
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r73da9e3 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Convert Address to Moose. - http://bit.ly/8ZzxXz23:50
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0560de2 / lib/WebGUI/Friends.pm : Use module line. - http://bit.ly/dp7sOX23:51
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+perlDreamerpreaction, I'm halfway through the Class::InsideOut conversion work00:08
+perlDreameranother week, perhaps two, and it'll be done00:09
+perlDreamerI don't know how to handle CRUD easily00:09
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r09767a4 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Pay.pm : Remove commented out module use line. - http://bit.ly/dprTY600:27
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r49182ae / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Credit.pm : Convert Shop::Credit to Moose - http://bit.ly/aT3vNA00:27
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@scrottiegrr.  X has locked up twice today.00:40
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+perlDreamerpatspam, do you have any hackathon projects?01:01
@scrottie^AlumniImageFromStorage(BVK3Nudsi85FNvGSBIQSww) ... this appears literally in output of my SQLQuery.  "Preprocess macros on query?" is Yes.  I have no idea what that option actually does.  I'm generating the ^Template output using concat on literal strings and the argument:  select ... concat('^AlumniImageFromStorage(', FileAsset.storageId, ')'), ...01:11
@scrottieany suggestions before I start reading the code to see how this works?01:11
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+perlDreamerscrottie, make sure that the Macro is in the config file01:13
+perlDreamermake sure that all required modules are present01:13
+perlDreamerand then check the WebGUI log file for more love notes01:14
@scrottiedone, done, done.01:14
@scrottiethanks.  alrighty.  let's see...01:14
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@scrottieyup.  macros are processed before the query is run, not on the output of the query.01:34
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+perlDreamerscrottie, are the macros in a template?01:53
@scrottiethey wind up as template variables.01:54
@scrottieer, in template variables.01:55
+perlDreameroh, that could definitely be a problem01:55
+perlDreamernope, seems to work okay01:57
+perlDreamerworks with and without asset focus01:57
@scrottieI'm trying to find the code that parses the ^macro stuff out to figure out what the rules are for being recognized...01:57
+perlDreamercheck out that link I posted above01:58
+perlDreamerstandard webgui admin login01:58
+perlDreamerthis is the query I used: select userId, username, concat(userId," ^u;") as trial from  users01:58
+perlDreamerand I get evaluated macros in the output01:58
+perlDreamerwhat kind of output are you looking for?01:59
+perlDreamerHTML, download, CSV?01:59
@scrottieconcat(userId," ^u;") ... not familiar with the 111 ^u syntax02:01
@scrottieer, 111 ^u;02:01
+perlDreamer^u; is the company url macro02:01
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+perlDreamerI just needed a macro that I could test for evaluation02:01
+perlDreameralthough, I suspect that macros are being evaluated in a second pass02:02
+perlDreamerCan't remember the execution order02:02
+perlDreamerif it's template, than macros, or the other way around02:02
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+perlDreamerin any case, that simple test case seems to be working02:03
@scrottieit sure as heck is.02:04
+perlDreamerbut that's also on 7.8.2202:04
+perlDreamerclient site is likely running something else02:04
+perlDreamerso it could be a bug that will be fixed with an upgrade02:04
@scrottieconcat('^AlumniImageFromStorage(', FileAsset.storageId, ')'), # wrong02:04
@scrottieconcat('^AlumniImageFromStorage(', FileAsset.storageId, ');'), # much better02:05
+perlDreameryeah, semicolon required02:05
@scrottie(trivial test)++02:05
+perlDreamerparens are optional, but not the semicolon, or the caret02:05
@scrottieI failed to remember after reading that and then did a bad cargo cult job from another template.02:05
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+perlDreamerhappy weekend!02:52
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eirohello all 14:49
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@rizenpat are you here?20:09
@rizenpatspam, nah-nah-nah-nah-nah-nah, patspam20:10
@rizenit's like batman only not20:10
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CIA-59WebGUI: translation * r12533 /translations/German/German/Auth_Twitter.pm: Updating German on translation server21:41
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@preactionso i keep thinking more and more that we need Spectre to just DO THINGS instead of passing off to the server22:03
@preactionex: Say i make a RemoteVideo asset that accepts a movie file and eventually uploads it to Viddler for you. if the viddler upload takes longer than 60 seconds, it can't be done during commit. but that is where it needs to be done.22:04
@preactionno, wait, nm, it needs to be done before commit22:04
@preactionwhich is probably worse22:04
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carograySpain won the world cup! 1-0 in about 27 minutes overtime00:19
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+perlDreamerpreaction, IMO, video submit would be handled by a completely different workflow, that is triggered after the user "commits" the new asset.01:23
+perlDreameralso, re soccer if the Dutch government used more WebGUI, they would have won the cup.01:24
+perlDreamerJust sayin'01:24
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fokatpreaction, Yeah, Spectre should _do_.05:39
fokatpreaction, This allows for decoupled tasks where only the result is interesting for WG.05:40
fokatAlso, it could run on a separate machine if needed.05:40
+perlDreameryou can already run spectre on a separate machine06:20
+perlDreamerspectre was designed to be small, and not to take up any memory06:21
+perlDreamerif you make it do things, it will take up memory06:21
@preactionright, but i need something truly async, we don't have anything like that yet06:21
+perlDreamerasync from what?06:21
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5fdb8e3 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Shop.pm): fix copy/paste error with shop template variables. Fixes bug #11709 - http://bit.ly/ca1onJ19:15
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+perlDreamerpreaction: regarding the YUI licensing issue, we're just nuking the examples directory for now, yes?19:30
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@preactionit's not necessary19:32
+perlDreamerpreaction, if the code editor bugs were fixed, we _could_ release 7.9 as stable19:32
@preactionthere's a half-dozen non-code-editor-related bugs19:34
@preactionthe first page or two19:34
@preactionthe last two pages are all HelpDesk and unfixables19:34
+perlDreamerI may be able to reduce that number over the next few days...19:37
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8938685 / (1186 files in 101 dirs): Purge YUI example code due to license issues with Debian*. Fixes bug #11710. - http://bit.ly/9LY86d19:37
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r6128c0d / (1186 files in 101 dirs): Remove YUI example code due to licensing issues with Debian*. Fixes bug #11710. - http://bit.ly/aDjsO019:39
@preactionperlDreamer: you'll also have scrottie, so if you can both hammer the hell out of them, we can get in a good position19:41
+perlDreamersuit him up and send him over.19:41
+perlDreamerHe'll fix bugs, oh yes he well!19:42
@preactioni still have one feature i want to put in to 7.9, so i may have you do that if you're up to it19:42
+perlDreamerfeature?  Which one?19:42
+perlDreamerI was thinking of implementing the satyam recommended Asset Manager speed-up, but priorities.19:43
@preactionasset-based dispatch, moving the guts of WebGUI::Content::Asset to WebGUI::Asset->dispatch()19:43
+perlDreamerWhat's the advantage of doing it that way?19:44
@preactionit can be overridden19:45
@preactioni override dispatch() to provide my own implementation of ?func=19:45
+perlDreamerso this is for compatibility with M::WG?19:46
@preactionthere's also a change to how WebGUI picks which asset is dispatched to, it checks multiple assets which can either handle it or pass it on. this way we have dirhandlers, and the RssFeed aspect can control .rss19:46
@preaction?func= needs to die, but slowly19:47
@preactionno, this is just for greater power and flexibility19:47
@preactionand i hope for compatibility with Catalyst (Catalyst-based Assets anyone?)19:47
@preactionbut like so many things, we have to start by making it POSSIBLE19:47
+perlDreamerif you write up a loose spec of what you want, then it will be done19:48
+perlDreameror, just write up a failing test suite with good comments, and I'll make it pass19:48
@preactionthen slowly make it easier until it's the preferred method, then remove the old busted method19:48
Haargpreaction, did we ever decide how to best handle invalid GUIDs19:48
@preactionk, i'll get that done today or tomorrow19:48
+perlDreamerwhat's going on in WebGUI these days?19:48
+perlDreameruh WebGUI 8, that is19:48
@preactionHaarg: no we didn't. because the question remains about custom code19:49
@preaction8 is waiting for me really, i've been busy / lazy19:49
@preactioni'm merging 7.9 again, and then i'm pushing all my getEditForm changes19:49
Haargcustom code and stuff in the db kind of19:50
@preactionthen we have to get ready for the Grand Show in two months19:50
+perlDreamer6 weeks19:50
Haargthe GUID thing probably needs to go into 7.1019:50
@preactioncan't we hash the ID (hash the hash...) for the "Sphinx ID"?19:50
@preactionyeah, it should be vetted19:51
Haargwe could, but it's kind of a shitty way to handle it since we should just be able to use the GUID19:51
+perlDreamerwould it be easier if we switched to hexIds everywhere?19:52
+perlDreamerpeople are less likely to try and forge them19:52
@preactionbut there is no better way: assets have a way to be inserted in upgrades with a given GUID, but otherwise it's the programmer giving us a GUID19:53
Haargbecause the problem ids don't have valid hex ids19:53
@preactionno, the problem is "PBAsset0000000000000001"19:53
+perlDreameryeah, PBAsset\d+$19:53
Haargi guess we need to decide if we can rely on the GUIDs having uniform randomness19:53
@preactionand then "PBAsset00000000000000002" <- the first significant bits aren't unique enough for the smaller Sphinx ID19:53
+perlDreamerin other words, just about 1/3-1/2 of them19:53
@preactionand the last significant bits are, but only for those. what about others?19:54
@preactionyeah, and not just assets, groups, workflows, activities, users, etc...19:54
@preactionoh, wait, assets are the only ones we care about19:54
Haargif we don't want to rely on that, we need to either hash the id, or otherwise combine the entire thing19:54
@preactionwe're not going to index workflow activities :p19:55
Haarglike, if we wanted something faster than a hash (although it probably isn't important) we could xor the first and second half19:55
@preactionwe know already we can't rely on it having enough significant bits, unless we change them19:55
Haargbut that wouldn't work for the busted IDs either19:56
Haargthe other problem is that if we don't use the GUID as it is exactly we have to store the search ID anyway19:57
@preactioni think if we limit it to assets, and can scan custom assets and give the author a problem report (and offer to switch to a valid GUID for them if they update their code with the new one), it would work19:58
Haargi think it's going to have to be compatible with 7.x though19:59
@preactionno, if we can calculate it from the search ID and keep the asset ID in a field in sphinx, it'll be fine. the only time we need the search ID is when WebGUI is telling sphinx what's up. otherwise sphinx will give us back the real asset ID19:59
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@preactionat least, from what i understood of the presentation20:00
+perlDreamerwhat is the "Sphinx ID"?20:00
Haargah yeah20:00
@preactionin which we can't break stuff as drastically as this would...20:00
Haargwas forgetting the extra fields20:00
@preactionthe Sphinx search engine requires a numeric ID20:00
@preactiona small numeric ID20:01
Haargsphinx uses a 64-bit id20:01
Haargwhich is half of our GUID20:01
Haargfor anything generated by Session::Id, we can just use half of the GUID20:01
+perlDreamerbut it's not numeric20:01
Haargbut that doesn't work for manually constructed IDs20:02
Haargyes it is20:02
Haargit's just a 128-bit number encoded as base6420:02
+perlDreamerlet me be specific, $session->id doesn't currently provide a way to get things with only numbers20:07
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0e91941 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add index to userLoginLog so that DeleteExpiredSessions can scale. Fixes bug #11708 - http://bit.ly/aJp0w320:09
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rffe9b8a / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add index to userLoginLog so that DeleteExpiredSessions can scale. Fixes bug #11708 - http://bit.ly/cqGxmf20:10
Haargno, but perl can't handle numbers that big well anyway20:10
Haargso since we only need to convert from GUID to search id20:11
Haargwe can either hash the GUID and use that20:12
Haargor try to detect a 'real' guid, hash if not, and use that20:12
@preactionconsidering it only needs to be used by WebGUI::Search, sounds like a plan20:13
Haargthe problem with the latter is if someone manually constructs an ID that appears valid but isn't random20:13
@preactioncan't save against malice20:14
Haargwhich would you prefer?20:14
@preactionthe solution that requires the least amount of WTFs20:14
@preactioni think the "detect valid and hash if not" will work fine20:15
Haargprobably the former then20:15
@preactionthen we can push "require valid" to a later date20:15
+perlDreamerValid is great for WebGUI 8!20:15
Haargyeah, that is the main advantage of it.  makes it simpler to enforce valid GUIDs at some point.20:16
@preactiondamnit. my proxy must be lagging me... because freenode kept killing me for "Excess Flood" because Colloquy just has to flood the damned server...20:16
Haargalthough the code for it will be more complicated20:16
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Haarg(but not by much)20:16
@preactionand we can document the kludge and remove it later20:17
Haargwe could also guard against less than random IDs20:18
Haargby xoring the first and second half.  not sure if that is a good idea or not20:18
Haargseems to just be adding complexity that if we were going to do we might as well go with the hash everything route20:19
@preactionperhaps when we drink our own kool-aid we can tell if it'll be necessary?20:19
Haargi suppose20:20
Haargi should write up a script to do some checks for this stuff20:20
Haargand you can run it on alumni or something20:20
Haargthat site probably has more of this kind of thing than any other webgui site20:21
@preactionpb.com or webgui.org might actually have more assets20:21
Haargmore assets20:21
@preactionbut yeah, alumni probably has more violations20:21
Haargbut they are all going to have valid GUIDs20:22
@preactiondamn i hate having my name attached to some of that code :p20:22
Haargbut it would be good to run it on both20:22
@preactionooh! With Asset Dispatch, the Thingy could be made to suck less!20:22
+perlDreameris that an actual reduction in suckage, or just the appearance of it?20:23
@preactioneach Thing could have a URL component, and even each item20:23
@preactionpeople don't like ?func=viewThing ?func=viewThingItem, etc...20:24
+perlDreamermakes sense, kind of like ?func=viewRss20:26
+perlDreamerthe old RSS asset was not good, but it did do that right20:26
@preactionexactly, but we could do it without another asset. one asset -> one url is a horrible paradigm20:26
+perlDreamerwith the many to 1 paradigm, you could almost throw out the redirect asset20:28
@preactionor the Shortcut asset20:28
+perlDreamerno, the Shortcut asset does too many other things20:29
+perlDreamerlike overrides20:29
+perlDreamerand Dashboard stuff20:29
+perlDreamerand whatever the Shortcut by metadata stuff is20:29
@preactionwell, shortcuts could work differently. it could proxy the dispatch() so that a shortcutted asset does what it should (Collab Thread/Post keep top-level shortcut URL, for example)20:30
@preactiona major problem people have with the shortcuts, gone20:31
Haargpreaction, if you have a chance, i could use some feedback on a few 8 issues: http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11668 http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11664 http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11685 http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11706 20:31
@preactionk, one sec20:32
Haargit should be possible to have a shortcut load the original asset object, then mix in a trait20:33
Haargthat would adjust its behavior in whatever ways are needed20:33
Haargso it would essentially be the original asset, but with the needed changes applied20:33
Haarginstead of the other way around20:33
@preactionHaarg: what do you need for the Dist::Zilla feedback? it all sounds good to me20:38
Haargactually i don't think i meant to link that one20:38
Haargalso, do we care about sql logging aside from the debug panel?20:41
@preactionnot really, but to be honest i don't even care about it in there20:42
@preactionit's not a way i debug, but it may be for someone else20:42
@preactionbut i don't think we need to send that crap to Log4Perl20:42
@preaction(or i don't know what you're talking about)20:43
Haargit's mainly a sanity check for me20:43
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * ra05692c / (4 files in 4 dirs): Note in several packages when the gateway URL is appended to input. Fixes bug #11621 - http://bit.ly/bBhVg520:43
Haargthat was basically the question20:43
Haarglog4perl logging is mostly useless imo20:43
Haargif you need that kind of logging mysql can do it for you20:44
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5ced1c3 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Note in several packages when the gateway URL is appended to input. Fixes bug #11621 - http://bit.ly/aXOkcH20:44
@preactionwell, that may be a function of how we use it20:44
Haargbut the debug output has shown me problems a few times20:44
@preactionit does help me find massive amounts of redirects, not using FileUrl macro, broken SC feeds, and some other stuff20:44
Haarglike when we started querying user profile default values for every call20:45
@preactionohh, you mean SQL logging to log4perl20:45
Haargi specifically meant for sql20:45
Haargthe log4perl output generally isn't useful for dev for me, but certainly for server admin stuff20:46
Haarganyway, i think i can fix my mysqltrace module to at least be usable20:46
Haargor maybe not20:47
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+perlDreamerpatspam, have you seen this: http://search.cpan.org/~shiriru/Javascript-Closure-1.00/lib/Javascript/Closure.pm ?21:56
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Haargpreaction, updated http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11706 (a bunch of the other stuff i'd like to do is dependent on how that is handled)22:02
HaargperlDreamer, do you see any problem with removing previousVersion.sql?22:06
+perlDreamerwhat's the plan for testing upgrades without it?22:07
+perlDreamerwhat benefit does removing it provide?22:07
+perlDreamerIn light of all you young advocates of change, you leave me no choice but to the be the Old Stick in the Mud22:07
Haarggit checkout -- share/create.sql22:07
Haargthe only reason it exists is to duplicate what version control already provides22:08
@preactionif WGD or WG::Command does the checkout for you, then why not?22:09
Haargthe reason it was created btw was so that if a dev updated create.sql in svn, the changes would be ignored22:10
@preactionwhich sounds like, again, a duplication of a VCS features22:11
Haargand silent failure is bad policy22:12
@preactionit's also convenient, but if we can hide the inconvenience then i'm cool with it22:12
+perlDreamerif someone manually changed create.sql now, we'd revert the change and scold them22:13
+perlDreamerI don't see any problems with removing it22:13
+perlDreamerI would really like to see reasons for all these proposals being plainly stated up front, though.22:13
@preactionagreed. the reasons for things are usually never apparent to me22:15
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Haargthe reason for most things is 'remove cruft' or 'remove boilerplate'22:15
@preactionand i agree with those reasons, just easier for you to say that than for me to have to figure it out by code-diving or brain-diving22:16
Haargyeah, i should probably do a better job of that.  half of the stuff i'm just throwing on the list so i don't forget it.22:16
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * rda9517a / lib/WGDev/Version.pm : fix exception for db file version check - http://bit.ly/cehYYy22:17
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * rbadde24 / lib/WGDev/Command/Util.pm : fix documentation for util command - http://bit.ly/bOjCfy22:17
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * r79c7c81 / lib/WGDev/Command/For/Each.pm : fix for-each command and add better docs - http://bit.ly/aJnFiS22:17
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * r0323c5b / (3 files in 2 dirs): follow WebGUI 8 API for DB script - http://bit.ly/cWE4Xq22:17
+perlDreamerI think we need a wgdev plugin that automatically downloads the latest wgd and builds the bundled app.22:18
+perlDreamerthat way, on a server where it is deployed in a home directory you could say wgd refresh-self, or something similar22:18
@preactionwell, wgd will eventually be included with WebGUI as WebGUI::Command22:19
+perlDreamerin 7?22:19
+perlDreamerI don't know about you guys, but in my job I'll be supporting wg7 websites for a while yet22:20
@preactionwell, whenever really22:20
CIA-59webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r80d62fc / (4 files in 3 dirs): move create.sql file and remove previousVersion.sql - http://bit.ly/cZxWad22:21
HaargWebGUI::Command as i see it will depend pretty heavily on WebGUI::Paths and WebGUI::Site/new session stuff if i get that built22:21
+perlDreamerHaarg, is t/Paths.t passing on your box?22:25
* Haarg is a bad person22:26
CIA-59webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r1b8b90c / t/Paths.t : fix WebGUI::Paths test - http://bit.ly/9oYCH322:26
+perlDreamerRepentance is the first step to forgiveness and reconciliation ;)22:27
+perlDreamerpreaction, I'd like to re-release 7.8.13 to fix an upgrade bug for people who want to upgrade to beta22:27
@preactionso frank's bug was real?22:28
+perlDreamernot so far :/22:28
+perlDreamerI found this bug in 7.8.13 which prevents me from going farther22:28
@preactionthen what's the problem?22:28
+perlDreamerThere's a check performed to make sure that a workflow activity isn't added twice to the Daily Workflow22:29
+perlDreamerit uses getActivities to get all the activities22:29
+perlDreamerbut one of them returns undef22:29
+perlDreamerthat, in and of itself, is a problem22:29
+perlDreamerbut the upgrade script should catch it, say something useful, and then die22:29
@preactionso there's an undef, in the config file22:29
+perlDreamerno, it would be from WebGUI::Workflow::Activity->new()22:30
@preactionthe upgrade worked just fine for me, my sites were on 7.7.30, now they're on 7.9.822:30
+perlDreamerI'm using a customer dump to duplicate khenn's bug22:30
@preactionso a workflow has an activity that doesn't exist anymore22:31
+perlDreamerthat's what it sounds like22:31
+perlDreamerit still needs to die, but it should die nicely22:31
+perlDreamerbroken workflow activities are bad22:31
@preactionyes, historically we've never handled that situation well22:31
+perlDreamerI guess it's a pretty rare case22:32
+perlDreamerbut it'll need to be fixed for the horde of people on the stable track22:32
@preactioni'm all for fixing it, just not so much on the re-releasing22:32
+perlDreameranyone who is a beta early adopter is probably smart enough to work around it22:33
@preactionthough why have we been against patching old builds?22:33
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+perlDreamerI don't understand that last statement, dude.22:33
@preactionwe don't re-release (which really means patching an old build and uploading the new tarball)22:34
@preactionbut why?22:34
+perlDreamerI don't know.  We've released patches to fix problems in the past against old versions22:35
+perlDreamermaybe that's the better solution22:35
+perlDreamerIt must be lunctime22:37
+perlDreamerthis dump references custom code which I don't have22:37
+perlDreamerwithout a core snapshot, this is worthless22:37
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * r833a08a / (MANIFEST.SKIP lib/WGDev/Command/Upgrade.pm): add rudimentary self-upgrade command - http://bit.ly/atVSXq23:12
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * r0fe2cb3 / (4 files in 4 dirs): update changes file and version - http://bit.ly/bUtzU423:12
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HaargperlDreamer, curl -O http://haarg.org/wgd && chmod +x wgd && wgd upgrade23:23
+perlDreamerdude, you are awesome23:23
Haargthe upgrade command only works with the self-contained version23:25
+perlDreamerthat's the only way that it makes sense23:27
@preactionthe EMSSubmission test fails right?23:30
Haargbleh.  just noticed that fatpacker breaks wgd's command list.23:32
Haargand i can't really think of a solution for that23:33
+perlDreamerpreaction, yeah23:34
+perlDreamerwe need in-memory assets for that one to work23:34
+perlDreamersince it needs not only the form field, but the default value23:34
@preactionuh, have we been updating the upgrade script?23:35
+perlDreameryes, and no23:35
@preactionor wait, i should've merged ... wait23:36
@preactionwe can't merge with 8 until a release is made23:36
@preactionbecause that updates create.sql23:36
+perlDreamerpreaction: prove output from my box: http://pastie.org/104150123:36
+perlDreamerInOutBoard has a wonky test23:36
+perlDreamerWednesday's merge will fix that finally23:37
+perlDreamert/i18n/template.t needs wgd to work in 823:37
+perlDreamerSearch.t is some issue with utf8 on my laptop23:37
+perlDreamerPOD.t, Form*, EMSSubmission are realy failurs23:37
@preactionright, which means i broke Template with my merge, but as mentioned, i can't merge 7.9 into 8 until we release23:37
+perlDreamerPath.t was fixed today23:37
@preactionbecause of create.sql. right now it doesn't have attachmentsJson for Template, and i can't put it in the upgrade script23:38
@preactionwe have a 7.8 release this week, correct?23:38
+perlDreamerno, 7.9 this week23:38
@preactionthen i guess i'll wait until you release and merge 7.9 again23:40
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * r2c02c41 / (2 files in 2 dirs): rename self upgrade command - http://bit.ly/9GeX2P23:41
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * rfbbd2c9 / lib/WGDev/Command/Self/Upgrade.pm : fix self upgrade package name - http://bit.ly/bRSpyk23:41
+perlDreamerI was planning on merging on Wednesday morn.  Is that early enough for you, or do you need it sooner?23:41
HaargperlDreamer, i change the upgrade command for wgd to self-upgrade23:42
@preactioni already have it all done up to Friday, so I might as well just finish it myself Wednesday morning23:42
+perlDreamerthat's more descriptive23:42
+perlDreamerokay, preaction, you da man for da merge23:43
* perlDreamer takes a bike riding break, back in 2523:45
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * rf50edcb / MANIFEST.SKIP : update MANIFEST.SKIP for new file name - http://bit.ly/beGjKV23:45
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@preactionyay for another "focus doesn't follow eyeball" failure!23:52
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@preactiontwo questions: are subpackages a necessary feature? (a package within a package). is the isPackage flag necessary and would a /packages top-level folder work better?00:09
+perlDreamerI'd rather have an isPackage marker, than a location00:14
+perlDreamerwhich, I think, makes the nested packages question moot, since they can exist without any problem.00:14
Haargi'd rather merge the concept with prototypes00:15
+perlDreamerhow would that work with a hierarchial package, Haarg?00:15
@preactionmerging with prototypes is a good idea00:15
+perlDreamerwould you only get to edit the top asset?00:15
+perlDreameror all of them 1 by 1?00:16
@preactiondeploying a package would have an intermediate step perhaps? allowing you to edit before the full deploy happens?00:16
+perlDreamerbut what if you want to deploy a large package/prototype, like that school district?00:17
+perlDreamerthey deploy an entire school site00:17
@preactioni don't see how that's a problem00:18
+perlDreameryou can deploy a package with 40 assets in it00:18
+perlDreamerthen 2 or 3 people can work on customizing them00:18
+perlDreamerprototypes force 1 person to edit them, 1 by 100:19
Haargimport/export is completely separate from the package flag.  i think it would make more sense to move the deploy feature into prototypes.  there are two things to handle at that point though.  deep vs shallow copy, and whether to show an edit screen.00:19
@preactioni'm saying there's a pre-deploy phase where you can edit things, which is what a prototype is, then you can edit things normally, like a package00:20
@preactiona prototype is a package you can edit before you deploy. or a package is a prototype you can't edit before you deploy00:20
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * re0a6602 / lib/WGDev/Asset.pm : make edit command work in WebGUI 8 - http://bit.ly/aDXIDi00:21
HaargperlDreamer, when you get a chance, try that ^ out00:21
+perlDreamerI can do that now00:21
+perlDreamersince there's no way I'll be testing khenn's upgrade problem00:21
@preactionwebgui 8 has a way to determine what types of content can be added to a given asset, correct?00:22
+perlDreamerso does 700:22
@preactionwhat if the new content menu only showed what you could add? or said "no content can be added here" or something00:23
+perlDreamerthat would be good00:23
+perlDreamersimilarly with Clipboard00:23
+perlDreameranything that can't be pasted should be grayed out/disabled00:23
@preactionright. if a piece cannot be added, strikethrough or grey it out or something00:24
+perlDreamerIt should blink!00:25
HaargperlDreamer, i got a response on JavaScript::Packer.  should be fixed soon.00:25
+perlDreamerThere are lots of CSS and JS packers in CPAN00:25
+perlDreamerbut no HTML packers00:25
+perlDreamersomeone should write the appropriate HTML::Minifier::XS00:26
+perlDreamerthat dispatches to {JavaScript,CSS}::Minifier::XS00:26
Haargno response on the JavaScript::Minifier::XS bug00:27
+perlDreamerwgd edit works00:27
+perlDreamerwgd package -u doesn't00:27
+perlDreamerbut that's only a nicety00:27
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0fe3887 / share/upgrades/7.9.8-8.0.0/root_import_default-asset-subscription.wgpkg : Fix the namespace in the subscription template. - http://bit.ly/clQA9l00:32
+perlDreamerUpdated the 8 test ticket, too.00:33
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * rb256e0a / lib/WGDev/Command/Package.pm : fix -u flag for package command in WebGUI 8 - http://bit.ly/c7EYJ500:34
+perlDreameryup, that works00:37
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re66be2a / (5 files in 5 dirs): Add a minimum height to the Carousel due to further rendering problems. Fixes bug #11457. - http://bit.ly/dCYd4g00:50
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@scrottiepreaction, got your email.00:56
@scrottiemeant to do a less quick flyby here.  arg.00:59
@scrottietoday kind of spiraled out of control.01:00
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r7cedb14 / (6 files in 6 dirs): Add a minimum height to the Carousel due to further rendering problems. Fixes bug #11457. - http://bit.ly/cX2Rdz01:00
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r848e903 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move thingy search template to the correct location. - http://bit.ly/9nhSeI01:00
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+perlDreameroff for errands, be back later01:18
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@preactionscrottie: no worries. there isn't much more explanation required, just need to keep the 7.x buglist clear and then work on whatever WebGUI 8 tickets meet your fancy01:32
@preactioncolin says the buglist is almost clear, but we're still going to give time for new features before we go stable01:33
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wgGuest02Hi, have a question about installing CPAN modules. I upgraded to 7.9.8-beta (RHEL5/WRE 0.9.3). Installing "CHI" and "Cache::FastMmap" via testEnvironment.pl gives errors...01:55
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jmackSomething goes wrong... busy with it for 3-4 hours now01:56
jmackI alwys used to install them manually or via testEnvironment. Always without errors.. someone has a suggestion?01:58
@preactionCHI in RedHat needs Test::Log::Dispatch iirc02:02
@preactionotherwise you can force install them from the cpan shell02:03
@preactionotherwise you can add WebGUI::Cache::CHI to sbin/preload.exclude and skip the requirements02:04
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jmackHi preaction.. it seems something else goes wrong. Can't even install this module. CPAN[1]> install force Test::Log::Dispatch02:26
@preactionforce install Test::Log::Dispatch02:26
@preactionwhat's the error you get?02:26
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jmackIs there a way to start from scratch with CPAN modules? JSWATX/Test-Log-Dispatch-0.0.3.tar.gz:    make_test FAILED but failure ignored because 'force' in effect02:36
jmackInstalling cpan-modules went always very smooth until I upgraded to RHEL 5.502:37
@preactionjmack: that "error" said it succeeded.02:38
jmackTry now: force install CHI and see what it does?02:39
jmackI will take a long time... if I follow all requirements?!?02:40
jmackCHI same as Test::Log::Dispatch. But when force install Cache::FastMmap, it says: Make had returned bad status, install seems unpossible. Failed during this command ROBM/Cache-FastMmap-1.35.tar.gz    : make NO02:44
jmackSomehow I get the idea that Redhats perl is conflicting. Had this 1-2 years back as well. Although during cpan install I see path like /wre/prereqs etc.. (have put setenvironment in the bash_profile)02:52
+perlDreamerjmack, did you run setenvironement.sh?02:55
jmackmanually and in the root bash_profile02:56
+perlDreamerwhat happens when  you try to install Cache::FastMmap by hand, using the CPAN shell?02:57
jmackAll last install actions above I did by hand. perl -MCPAN -e shell02:58
+perlDreamerwell, then at some point in the terminal history it will tell you why it failed02:59
+perlDreameryou may be missing some memcached devel RPM02:59
+perlDreameror it could be a missing dependency02:59
jmackI started with testEnvironment.. thats where it started. Is there a way back? Can I copy and paste some directory from a backup? and start over again?03:01
+perlDreamerAside from an operating system backup, there's no way to start over again03:02
+perlDreameryou need to fix the current problem03:02
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfd153b8 / (11 files in 3 dirs): Always use good macro form when using the Extras macro. Fixes bug #11455. - http://bit.ly/b1Kwqa03:14
+perlDreamerAfter fixing the bad Extras macros, /me makes dinner03:15
jmack@PerlDreamer, can Redhats SELinux have to do with it? It's not disabled.. but permissive.03:21
jmackThis file was blocked earlier /data/wre/prereqs/modules/mod_perl.so  (now after some commands it shouldn't?!?)03:23
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+perlDreamerjmack, I've used Fedora with permissive SELinux before, and it worked fine03:44
jmackOk.. I'll look tomorrow further to it. See if I can get back to the point where it went wrong... Tnx for the help!03:56
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elninogood morning!08:14
elninodoes the store handel "e downloads"?08:14
elninocustomer wants limited access to the download they purchased, and/or timed access to download the product they purchase, or even perhaps, the product emailed to the customer.08:17
+perlDreamerelnino, see if you can run a workflow when they checkout08:20
+perlDreamerhave that workflow add them to a group, with expire time of 15 minutes08:20
elninooh. that's clever.08:21
+perlDreameralternately, the workflow could email a file08:21
+perlDreamerbut I don't think we have that activity yet08:21
+perlDreamerhow are you with flash content?08:21
elninoadobe? I don't. I use powerbullet instead. And I'm not terribly creative when it comes to graphics and moving things around on the screen08:22
elninosometimes I do get a creative idea. so it depends.08:22
+perlDreamerI have a flash file that I can't make go08:23
+perlDreamerhelping someone move to WebGUI08:23
elninoOH I see. 08:23
elninoI had the same problem. 08:23
+perlDreamerWebGUI's default flash templates aren't doing anything useful08:24
elninoit was weird. I used my own object code and it didn't work. but then I simply loaded up as a file, and it worked.08:24
elninoI think I hvae my own flasah template. 08:24
elninoI don't remember who's it was.08:24
elninoI can give it to you. it worked for my flash08:25
elninoI feel like I've been gone so long... should I use pastebin?08:26
+perlDreameryeah, where have you been?08:26
elninoOh, we sold our house, bought  a forclosed one.08:26
* elnino shakes her head08:26
* elnino sighs.08:26
+perlDreamerlots of fixup work?08:26
* elnino is very tired.08:26
elninoyes. more than I anticipated.08:27
elninothat was two months ago08:27
* elnino looks for the template08:27
elninooh. this isn't my template. but it works. Mine is from 7.7.2708:30
elninoyou want it still?08:30
+perlDreamerplease, I'm stumped08:30
+perlDreamerpaste at webgui.pastebin.com08:30
elninook.  so I did make a modification, so I'll give you 7.7.27 and mine. I have no idea what the difference is. 08:31
* elnino wishes there was a diff utility in wg08:31
+perlDreameryeah, that would be nice08:32
elnino7.7.27: http://webgui.pastebin.com/0R2ByD3k08:34
+perlDreameryes, I'm very familiar with the guts of that one08:35
+perlDreamerI have no idea how it works, but it's in the core08:35
elninooh.  I modified the size of the flash. that's the only difference.08:35
elninobetween my template and 7.7.27s08:35
elninoand that doesn't work for you?08:36
elninoah.  hold on.08:36
elninook. so you've come acrss what I've come accross.08:38
elninoAnd I have NO idea what the heck AC_RunActiveContent.js08:39
+perlDreamerme either08:39
+perlDreamerlooks like it handles writing browser specific object code08:39
elninoso I rip all that out from the original site, and simply upload the flash as a file using the flash file template and it works.08:39
elninoso get rid of that ac_thing08:40
elninoI *suspect* that it is case sensitive.08:40
elninothe ac thing is messign thigns up. I don't know how it works on the original site, but it seems uncessary, because it works fine without it.08:41
elninothat's what I did.08:41
+perlDreamerno flash :(08:42
+perlDreamerI changed the size on the default template, too08:43
elninohttp://demo.plainblack.com/demo1278999620_282/uploads/5d/d7/5dd7753452424d4921a7d0b8f86eeac1/slideshow.swf doesn't seem to be working. is the file being chopped? or is it my internet?08:44
elninoyou should be able to go to it directly.08:44
+perlDreamermaybe it has some kind of download protection08:46
+perlDreameranyway that I download that file, and upload it, I end up with badness08:46
elninoI went to your webgui fog site, and am attempting to access the swf file directly.  it's still waiting.08:47
elninothe original site's original file works. So I'm thinking it's the file, nothing you're doing.08:47
+perlDreamerI've tried downloading the file several different ways08:48
+perlDreamerI get the same checksum on the file every time08:48
+perlDreamermaybe I'll need to pull it via FTP or something08:49
elninoI don't know how it can have a download protection - never heard of such thing. 08:49
+perlDreamerme either08:49
elninodo you want me to try?08:49
+perlDreameryou can use that same demo site08:49
+perlDreamernuke what I put up, it's broken anyway08:49
elninoI'm goign to try my site...08:50
elninohold on08:50
+perlDreamerthere are 12 images in the rotation, but the downloaded flash file is only 2966 bytes08:52
+perlDreamersomething is screwy08:52
elninohmm. maybe they didn't embed the images into the flash file.08:53
elninomine just sits there "waiting"08:53
+perlDreamerso the flash file calls back to the original server, and gets a list of images from somewhere08:54
+perlDreamerthat would explain what's going on08:54
+perlDreamerthe flash _is_ working, but not doing anything useful08:54
elninoI thought maybe we were both seeing a animated gif and the swf NEVER worked.08:55
+perlDreamerthat would be nice...08:56
elninobut I do see allowScriptAccess="sameDomain", which leads me to believe that the somethign is accessing something somewhere.08:56
elninoI dont' think that tag is in the flash file template08:56
+perlDreamerI built a custom template that calls it08:57
+perlDreamerand it still doesn't do anything useful08:57
+perlDreamerI even inlined the JS into a snippet08:57
+perlDreamerthat's the 604 site08:58
elninoI've tried those too. I could never get the ac_ thing to work, but I've always been able to get the swf file to work. but you'res is a little different somehow I"m afraid.08:59
elninowell. I do need to get going. we're living with my parents untill we get this house in working order. tomorrow I'm up earily. I'm sorry to be leaving you with an unresolved problem.09:01
+perlDreamerre the short time download, you may have more success using a subscription asset instead of a product09:01
+perlDreamersince it will add a user to a group by default09:01
elninohmm. true. Thanks! I ahve to read up on all this, I have much to catch up on. you guys ahve been busy with upgrades.09:02
+perlDreamergood night, elnino, and thanks for the help09:03
elninoI tried at least. thanks for the ideas - gnite09:04
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+perlDreamerhey, KlausH10:49
+perlDreamerI'm actually heading off to bed, but I wanted to say hi real quick10:49
+perlDreamergood night :)10:49
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+perlDreamermorning, folks19:03
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfd834a5 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Handle the case of an empty field name when adding user profile fields. Fixes bug #11715. - http://bit.ly/9QzY0419:49
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1c6b269 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Handle the case of an empty field name when adding user profile fields. Fixes bug #11715. - http://bit.ly/ccVxg019:52
+perlDreamerahoy, scrottie, ya scurvy dawg19:53
@scrottieavast ye!19:53
+perlDreamerwe're quickly running out of fixable bugs19:54
+perlDreamerpreaction, will you have time to look at the code editor whitespace bug?19:56
@preactionnot really, no. i know what the problem is, the HTML parser inside there doesn't handle whitespace19:56
+perlDreamerthe external HTML parser package that we added?19:57
@preactionbut i need to focus on the Admin Console, as it's the only thing about webgui 8 that any user will really care about19:57
+perlDreamerI'll check to see if there have been any updates to the parser19:57
@preactionwell, it's fixable, just have to fix it19:57
@preactionit's probably not the parser, but how i'm using it. whitespace in html is supposed to be ignored, and so i'm ignoring it. not sure if it's a stream parser that i could modify to allow whitespace in the stream or not20:01
@preactionbut really his problem is he hasn't upgraded to the version that lets you disable the area for a little while in order to paste stuff in20:01
+perlDreamerthere hasn't been any updates to the parser20:02
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+perlDreamerI did some copy and paste work last night in the editor, and it worked fine20:14
+perlDreamermaybe I'll test it again, more carefully, and tell him to upgrade to get the bug fixed20:14
@preactionit could be the IE-specific code20:14
+perlDreamerI'll try that, too20:14
@preactionthe HTML parser is only really needed because IE fucks with the HTML that's pasted into a contentEditable iframe. and i mean fucks bad.20:15
+perlDreamerthe only thing I hate less than IE in this job, is flash20:15
@preactioni swear it looks like they're trying to parse HTML with regexp, as it changes <a href="http://example.com">Some link</a> to <a href="<a href="http://example.com">http://example.com">Some Link</a>20:16
@preactionit's really weird20:16
+perlDreamerI remember that code20:16
@preactioni'm sure it's for some kind of Office integration20:17
+perlDreamertavisto: http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/mobile/07/13/iphone.4.duct.tape/index.html?hpt=Sbin20:22
@tavistohah, people are still grinding on that20:23
@tavistoi see it on engadget, gizmodo, macrumors, and ZDnet20:24
@tavistobut, most people have a case on their phone anyway.... just like the previous models.... and... the phone has already been performing well in the troubled NY and SF areas... Huge improvement on preventing drop calls and voice quality..... Not to mention the iPhone's camera and screen are the #1 rated items in the smartphone world right now. So, for me.. I love my new iPhone4... with it's black bumper and Zagg invisible skin on t20:26
@tavistofront and back. It rocks20:26
* perlDreamer unpacks the duct tape he'd planned on sending20:27
@tavisto\ end of fanboy spewage20:27
+perlDreamertavisto, I'm in an awkward situation20:27
+perlDreamerthere aren't any other fixable bugs in WebGUI to work on20:28
@tavistoyeah right.20:28
+perlDreamerand despite beatings and threats, the online editors won't be fixed20:28
+perlDreamerI guess I'll have to work on CMS Matrix bugs next20:28
@tavistogood man20:28
@tavistoi sent you a few things to look at20:29
@tavistoi haven't had time to test/confirm them but they sound legit20:29
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@scrottieI'm thinking of buying an iPhone with a cracked screen off of eBay.  everyone seems to have a cracked screen anyway so I thought I'd just buy it that way and save money.  it's worthless as an mp3 player requiring iTunes and all but the GPS would be really handy for trips and if I jailbreak it, I think I can tether.20:50
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@preactionyes, Spirit lets you wirelessly jailbreak and the tether app is like $1020:59
@preactionbut doesn't gPod or Rhythmbox work with ipod / iphone?21:00
+perlDreamerRhythmbox works on the iphone21:00
@scrottiethat's good.  but there's the danger that the next firmware update will kill that and it's really nice just to be able to rsync music.  also the amp in the iPhones have no umph and battery life is terrible.21:03
@scrottieand the mp3 player software on the iPhone itself bangs the flash constantly with music play stats and burns them out.21:04
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@scrottieburns it out21:05
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CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell master * r60a8131 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm : migrate attachments to JsonTable - http://bit.ly/bHponK21:13
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell master * r65e9902 / (4 files in 4 dirs): migrate to JsonTable to edit template attachments - http://bit.ly/aJVpUq21:13
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell master * r69b7fe0 / (4 files in 4 dirs): fix jsontable and use it for Calendar feeds - http://bit.ly/9a2sbP21:13
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell master * rab7e98d / t/Asset/Asset.t : test changes to updating serialize asset props - http://bit.ly/atK3Mk21:13
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell master * ref319ea / t/Asset/Asset.t : fix cleanup - http://bit.ly/dk8Mry21:13
+perlDreamerhm, looks like it's time to update and prove21:16
@preactionoh, you think just because I committed something I didn't test everything? you're so mean!21:16
+perlDreamerand I'm right21:17
+perlDreamersyntax errors in the upgrade script21:17
@preactionthat doesn't make you any less mean21:17
@preactiongot it21:17
+perlDreameryou've been talking to my children, haven't you?21:17
@preactiondon't need to, we all know how mean you are21:18
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell master * rf78386d / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.9.8-7.9.9.pl : fix merge - http://bit.ly/b9oF7x21:18
+perlDreamerpreaction: http://gist.github.com/47428221:19
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell master * r0b87ce3 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm : fix package import problem - http://bit.ly/bkcZBM21:21
+perlDreameryay! upgrading works again21:22
@preactionoh. what about packages made with template attachments before attachmentsJson? 21:22
@preactiongott im himmel21:22
+perlDreameryeah, it would suck if we just broke all the packages in The Bazaar21:25
Haaargor all the packages in 7.921:26
@preactioneh, nobody uses attachments21:26
@preactionor packing21:26
+perlDreameror filepump21:32
+perlDreamerif we converted the core to use them, people might start21:32
+perlDreamerthat could be a fun project21:32
+perlDreamerparse the HEAD blocks for script and links, and convert them to attachments21:32
@preactioni had tried that in the beginning, but since it broke plainblack.com, i was told not to (when it turns out that was a bug in how i was doing it, not a problem in the packed template)21:33
@preactionyes, that is in the plan for the future21:33
* SDuensin doesn't even know WTF attachments or the filepump are for.21:33
+perlDreamertemplate attachments are a way to prevent files from being downloaded more than once21:33
+perlDreamerWebGUI can keep track of which files you include, for JS and CSS21:34
@preactiontemplate attachments are an explicit way of adding <link> and <script src=""> tags. that way you don't add them twice and dependencies can be calculated for future use21:34
+perlDreamerbut sticking script and link tags into the head breaks that21:34
+perlDreamerso template attachments fixes that21:34
SDuensinAre these in some of those document things anywhere?  :-)21:34
@preactionso when we move to CDN stuff, it'll be easy to make CDN links from those attachments21:34
+perlDreamerfile pump takes that concept in a different direction21:34
@preactionprobably not21:34
+perlDreamerfile pump is documented on the wiki21:34
SDuensinCould be why nobody uses it.21:35
+perlDreamerso I'll let you read about it there21:35
SDuensinI can do that.21:35
@preactionfilepump takes a bunch of attachments and concatenates them together so they only require one http request to grab21:35
* SDuensin is currently VERY bandwidth challenged though.21:35
+perlDreamerand it also minimizes them21:35
+perlDreamerstrips out comments and whitespace21:36
+perlDreamerpreaction, prove says "You did good"21:36
@preactionit says for me that t/Operation/Auth.t fails21:36
@preactionand t/Search/Index.t has a bad plan21:37
+perlDreamerregarding search, you have two problems21:38
+perlDreameryour mysql is not setup correctly for search21:39
+perlDreamerand the skip says to skip two tests, but there's only one21:39
+perlDreamerft_min_word_len needs to be 221:39
+perlDreamerI fixed the skip21:40
@preactioni believe i've fixed the Operation/Auth.t test too. wasn't using ->originalConfig when changing the config file21:40
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb24f73f / t/Search/Index.t : Fix the plan for skipping tests when ideographic search won't work. - http://bit.ly/c60WP721:40
+perlDreameroriginalConfig won't be necessary in 821:40
+perlDreamerHaarg fixed it so that it creates a temporary, throwaway config file that can be hacked ad nauseum21:41
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rb8559a5 / t/Search/Index.t : Fix the plan for skipping tests when ideographic search won't work. - http://bit.ly/9zlUD821:41
+perlDreamerwithout affecting the original, source config file21:41
@preactionyeah, i had thought that was in 7.9 too21:41
+perlDreamerit didn't work well21:41
Haaargwe tried to stick it in21:41
+perlDreamerI couldn't make it work, so it got reverted21:41
Haaargbut 7.x assumes you can get the config by just using the bare filename21:42
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell master * r129251f / t/Operation/Auth.t : fix test to clean up config properly - http://bit.ly/cksfh721:42
Haaargwe probably could have made it work actually21:42
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell master * rb4f47db / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm : read template attachments from prior versions - http://bit.ly/aONMqq21:42
Haaargby sticking the temp files in the etc directory21:42
+perlDreamerI had thought that you didn't do that in the first place because it wasn't safe to assume that the user could write there21:43
+perlDreamerbut tests are for devs21:43
SDuensinTrix are for kids.21:43
SDuensinSorry.  I'm _really_ bored.21:43
+perlDreamerand Kicks are for Trids, silly Rabbi21:44
Haaargdo you think it is worth making a separate module to automatically find t/lib or should i just stick it in WebGUI::Test after moving it to lib?21:45
+perlDreamerI still think it's working making a separate module21:45
+perlDreamerbesides, you can always use some more CPAN cred, right?21:45
Haaargmaybe, but then i have to find a name for it21:46
@preactionTestLib :p21:46
+perlDreamerlike blib, but for tests21:46
+perlDreameruse tlib;21:46
Haaarglower case = no21:47
+perlDreamerbut it's a pragma!21:47
+perlDreamerHaarg, in WGDev, how are dependencies specified?21:48
Haaargdependancies for what?21:48
Haaargstill not quite following you21:49
Haaargi don't pack any dependancies21:50
+perlDreamerbut I couldn't build a packed wgd without21:50
+perlDreamerperl Build distexec didn't work21:50
Haaargdistexec is a special case, mainly meant for me21:50
Haaargso there is no real place to put it21:50
Haaargprobably worth having a better error message though21:51
+perlDreamerI have that extra command module for doing pre-release package checks21:51
+perlDreamerand I've convinced myself that pushrelease needs to be a wgd command, too21:51
+perlDreamerbecause it's smart enough to figure out which branch and version to use21:51
Haaargi'm probably going to have to steal the code from fatpacker and modify it21:53
+perlDreamerspeaking of annoying...22:00
+perlDreamer./wgd self-upgrade22:00
+perlDreamerNo WebGUI root directory available.22:00
+perlDreamerdid that on a site where the user does not have a WEBGUI_CONFIG or .wgdev22:00
+perlDreamerand, in the POD s/wgd upgrade/wgd self-upgrade/22:01
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * rde28c82 / lib/WGDev/Command/Self/Upgrade.pm : no root needed for self-upgrade - http://bit.ly/dCLk5G22:03
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* perlDreamer takes a lunch break to feed to critters22:27
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CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * r19d33c6 / (.gitignore MANIFEST.SKIP inc/WGDev/Builder.pm): just use "wgd" for distexec script name - http://bit.ly/dCDNkf22:38
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * rd063c74 / (inc/WGDev/Builder.pm lib/WGDev/Command.pm): fix command list for distexec script - http://bit.ly/doNdJ322:38
CIA-59wgdev: Graham Knop master * r2826eb2 / lib/WGDev/Command/Self/Upgrade.pm : correct self-upgrade docs - http://bit.ly/btiXEN22:38
@preactiondid we write the Accordian Menu for YUI?22:42
@preactionif we did, I'm rewriting it. if we didn't, I may rewrite it anyway.22:42
@preactioni love how it captures every click everywhere.22:42
@preactioni love how it doesn't really allow multiple instances22:43
@preactionactually, looks like it captures every mouseover and mouseout too22:43
@preactionwhich might explain why the debugger goes wonky on me a lot22:43
Haaargas in the menu used for the admin bar?22:45
Haaargjt used some stuff he found online and hacked it together22:45
@preactionhttp://blog.davglass.com/files/yui/tab4/ <- better? completely using YUI's TabView and some custom CSS + animations22:51
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+perlDreamerhold on a sec, preaction.  Isn't that the same guy who wrote editor?23:07
@preactionyes, Dav Glass23:07
+perlDreamerthe same editor that gives us fits in the code-editor?23:08
@preactionin his defense, it's because Editor isn't very robust. that example isn't in yui core, and TabView isn't his code23:08
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@preactioni like how POD is built-in to Perl, even if it kinda sucks. other languages you need to go look for a doc builder, and then you have to pick the right one00:03
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r10e4afa / (2 files in 2 dirs): Manually constructed URL's have to manually URI encode parameters. Fixes bug #11718. - http://bit.ly/cUem8Z01:08
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfd394db / (2 files in 2 dirs): Manually constructed URL's have to manually URI encode parameters. Fixes bug #11718. - http://bit.ly/cnooVX01:10
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbcecfec / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade package to the right location. - http://bit.ly/9ogVX101:10
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* scrottie tries to figure out how to link to an asset (HTML a href style) from a SQL report01:29
@preactionif you have the URL, you can use the gateway macro: ^/(assetUrl); <- that's the most correct method01:31
@scrottietrying to go the other way... URL from an assetId01:32
@scrottiebut let me look at that01:33
@preactionjoin the assetData table, only real way: JOIN assetData USING (assetId, revisionDate) ... GROUP BY (assetId) HAVING MAX(revisionDate)01:33
@scrottieoh, heh, url is right there.  duh.  thanks.01:34
@preactionyou'll still need to add a leading "/" to that URL (or more accurately, the gatewayUrl from the config file)01:36
@preaction(which incidentally is what the gateway macro does, it's just slower than knowing what the gatewayUrl really is)01:36
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+perlDreamerthe need for the gateway macro, when designing for a particular site, is pretty low02:04
+perlDreamerbut for core stuff, you have to use it02:04
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+perlDreamerwe will now entertain motions from the floor to hold off tonight's beta release04:52
+perlDreamerabsent any motions from the floor, the release will commence04:57
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r987ee3e / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.9.8-7.9.9.pl : When processing templates during an upgrade, it has to be done after importing packages. - http://bit.ly/cjdpIy05:18
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbd241af / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.9 release. - http://bit.ly/9NxB5H05:19
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+perlDreamerall done06:00
@scrottielooks like exporting packages doesn't grab assets contained inside that asset, only the asset itself?06:01
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r18da6a8 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.10 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/atukJ506:01
+perlDreamerexporting as a package takes the package, and all children06:01
+perlDreamerif it doesn't something is badly broken06:02
@scrottiehrm.  I'll try again.06:02
@scrottiewas it wrong of me to mark the children exportable too first?06:02
+perlDreamerare we talking about the same thing?06:03
+perlDreamerexportable as HTML06:03
+perlDreamerversus packaging?06:03
@scrottieah.  no.06:03
+perlDreamerok :)06:03
+perlDreamerwhich one are we talking about?06:03
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@scrottiemy confusing the two was the problem.  wgd package apparently exports the assets for import elsewhere.  wgd export does something else.06:06
@scrottiewgd package includes the children.06:06
+perlDreamerexport serializes it to a text file06:07
@scrottieso it seems.06:07
+perlDreamerpackage is an interface to the WebGUI package system06:07
+perlDreamerscrottie, did you have a go at the purported upgrade bug?06:08
@scrottienot exactly... I started the non-upgraded database loading again and then set out to finish up what I was doing while it loaded.06:08
@scrottielooks like it's still going.  and that's on the fast machine.  if I were around the fast machine and it wasn't crashed out, I'd have set that off last night.06:09
@scrottiearg.  but it's not using any cpu.06:10
@scrottiebut last time I killed it, it reported being on some high line number.  dammit.06:10
@scrottie  69423 1    scott     14  -2 32496  17m 3704 S  0.6  24:19.00 mysqld                                                                                                06:11
@scrottiewell, I guess I'm done with $other_thing, so I was hoping this would be ready for me now.06:14
@scrottieit took ages on the slower Linux laptop but it also pegged the CPU.06:16
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elninohey! perlDreamer, did youfigure out the flash?06:40
elninoneed to bouce an idea regarding products.06:40
elninowe have content that is deliverable in a book, cd, and ebook. Are the book, cd, and ebook going to be product assets? or are they variants?06:41
+perlDreamerNo clue with the flash06:43
+perlDreamerif the end goal is to download one of more files, they'll need to be Subscription assets06:44
+perlDreamerso that you can add them to a group06:44
elninoperlDreamer, oh yeah, I forgot about that... ok. so they are all different products/subscriptions. 06:59
+perlDreamerthat is, unless you can get the Product Asset to run a workflow on checkout06:59
elninothey currently have yahoo store and the three choices are in a drop list, so I had variants stuck in my head.06:59
elninoit would be more presentable that way if they were variants I think.07:00
elninoand I forget..each of these variants can have their own weights, prices, isbn, and inventory tracking by default? or do I define that in my custom product asset?07:02
+perlDreamervariants can have, and do track, all of those07:06
+perlDreamerhang on07:07
+perlDreamera variant has: weight, price, quantity, sku and a description07:07
+perlDreamersku could be ISBN, it's not used for much except synchronizing with external brick and mortar inventory programs07:08
elninoso then I probably would need a custom product to add a flag for delivery method or something. 07:10
elninook.  now I just have to find my webgui books in my boxes. =)07:10
elninothanks! and good night!07:11
+perlDreamergood night, and good hunting, elnino07:11
+perlDreamerif you need help, holler07:11
+perlDreamerI owe you one after last night07:11
elninobut you didn't resolve the issue... I still owe you I believe.07:12
+perlDreamerwell, okay.  I'll help you anyway07:12
elnino... oh.. I forgot.. the vender payout...07:13
elninois that per product basis? or a set percentage per vendor?07:14
+perlDreameryou can set a vendor for each product07:14
+perlDreamerI don't know how the percentages work07:14
elninook. no problem. 07:15
+perlDreamerbut I know they do, since a large WebGUI company uses them07:15
elninodid the store checkout process get reworked? I know it was in the process at one time.07:16
+perlDreamerit was reworked quite heavily in 7.907:16
+perlDreamerit's a worth creating a beta demo site to look at07:17
elninook. I look forward to it!  I"m assuming the new templates went into 7.9 as well?07:17
elninoso 7.8 hasn't change much from 7.7?07:17
+perlDreamerno, just big fixes07:18
+perlDreameruh, bug fixes07:18
elninook.  Good to know. Now I'm ready to sleep.07:18
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+perlDreamerI read a lot of blogs and articles online07:19
+perlDreamerand I'm amazed at how generally nice WebGUI people seem to be07:19
+perlDreamerno flame wars07:19
+perlDreamerno shouting07:19
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@scrottieI LIKE PUDDING.07:28
+perlDreamerand then there's scrottie...07:43
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+perlDreamerLong time no IRC08:47
+perlDreamerhow's the pudding?08:47
scrottiewish I had some =(08:48
+perlDreamerwhy isn't there a pudding delivery service?09:05
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zylopfaHello all15:15
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zylopfaI am making an email system in webgui, will put it on the bazzar if anyone is interested15:18
zylopfaIts utilizing a new Article like wobject called Email and a new folder type called EmailFolder15:19
zylopfaGood morning!15:31
SDuensinHey zylopfa15:39
SDuensinEmail system?  Sounds interesting.15:40
zylopfayeah i am making it with things webgui has already, email folders instead of the folder asset15:40
zylopfaand Email instead of Article asset15:40
SDuensinJust internal mail, or actual POP/IMAP kinda stuff?15:41
zylopfayeah pop style mail15:42
SDuensinVery cool.15:42
zylopfayou set up a workflow i have made with: what server ip, what account, password etc15:42
zylopfaand then it will fetch mail there into a mailfolder you want15:43
zylopfaand all the mails becomes Email assets inside the mail folder which is a MailFolder asset15:43
zylopfaIts good if you setup business sites, then they can handle business from the site itself15:44
SDuensinI do, and I agree.  Right now I bounce them from the WebGUI part to a RoundCube server.15:45
* SDuensin runs way too many servers.15:45
zylopfahaa yeah :(15:45
zylopfaI currently run 2 production ones and a test one15:45
SDuensinBuilding more RIGHT NOW, too.  :-D15:45
zylopfahaa sweet!15:45
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zylopfawebgui is genious! when building applications for it18:27
SDuensinIsn't it?  :-)18:28
* SDuensin is WebGUI's #1 fan.18:28
zylopfa;D yeah18:29
zylopfaGonna get this on the bazaar, but you need to install a lot of stuf18:31
zylopfaEmail.pm and EmailFolder assets and a getEmail workflow activity18:32
SDuensinWrite good docs.  :-)18:32
zylopfathere is automatic installation of the assets but it wont work for the workflow activity18:33
zylopfaits just a line in the config file though but has to be explained18:33
zylopfaDoes php programmers use object oriented programming?18:35
+perlDreamerzylopfa, yes18:37
+perlDreamerSDuensin, I think zylopfa may qualify for WebGUI's #1 European fan18:37
Haaargit's kind of similar to perl for that.  people mix and match oo and procedural code.18:37
zylopfaok, always thought of php as a ripoff of perl with much less power18:37
zylopfahaa yeah Haaarg 18:38
+perlDreamerzylopfa, it suffered from very bad security issues in its youth18:38
+perlDreamerbut it's matured really well, and has several advantages over perl, especially in the web space18:38
+perlDreamerlike, easy deployment18:38
+perlDreamerbuilt in database connections18:38
Haaargit still suffers from lots of its early design decisions18:38
zylopfayeah and bad programmer education with injections and xss and so on, but thats not the languages fault18:38
zylopfaI have my 3rd project for the bazaar finished soon. an pop3 email tool, for getting and sending email from webgui18:39
+perlDreamerthat sounds like a good Account plugin18:39
zylopfaIts pretty smart, its a workflow activity, that gets the email from the server you choose18:40
+perlDreamerI mean the user interface, that would be a good Account plugin18:40
zylopfathen it makes the Inbox,MailTemplate,Sentmail folders as EmailFolder18:40
+perlDreamerthat way it's part of the user's account system, like Inbox, Profile, Contributions, and so on18:40
zylopfaand it creates the email in there as an Email asset18:40
zylopfayeah perlDreamer i wanted to make it integrated with the mailbox 18:41
zylopfabut it would be hacking to much at things that already is18:41
zylopfaI made 2 new assets one for EmailFolder and one for Email (a modified Article)18:41
+perlDreamerAdding it to the inbox would be a big challenge, yeah18:41
zylopfaI try to use as much as webguis things as i can18:42
zylopfawithout changing existing code18:42
zylopfaperlDreamer, i can add the mails locally to the inbox, but i cant send out from the webgui mail system to email addresses directly18:43
* SDuensin wishes he had more time to hack on WebGUI.18:44
+perlDreamerno, the inbox only sends to another inbox18:44
+perlDreamerwell, the way it works now anyway18:44
SDuensinInstead I'm doing dumb things like reading the instructions before loading software.  Obviously this is the wrong way of doing things.  The instructions don't work, but blindly clicking things seems to be making progress.18:45
+perlDreameryay for blind clicking!18:46
zylopfahaa :D18:47
+perlDreamerSDuensin, I don't recommend that approach for emails or random web pages18:47
zylopfabtw is the api for webgui changed much in version 8?18:47
+perlDreamerzylopfa: http://gist.github.com/47560318:47
zylopfaSeems the assets has been changed a lot18:50
+perlDreamerinternally, yes18:51
+perlDreamerfrom the outside, only in very small ways that are very easy to change18:51
zylopfaWill see if i migrate my stuff to version 8, propably will though18:51
zylopfaperlDreamer, do you know how often the api will change?18:51
+perlDreamerwell, the last time there was a major change it was 7.0.018:52
zylopfayeah thats some time ago18:52
+perlDreamerfrom 7.0.0 'til now, only in ways that are mandated by bug fixes18:52
+perlDreamerbut, at 7.0.0 there was a promise made to the developers18:52
+perlDreamer5 years of stability18:52
zylopfaahh nice18:52
+perlDreamerthat promise expires this year18:52
+perlDreamerso I don't know what life will be like going forward18:53
zylopfaWell the code i made can easy be changed into the new one18:53
+perlDreamerpreaction would be a good person to ask about that18:53
zylopfaperlDreamer, may I ask you about some programmatical stuff?18:54
+perlDreamerof course!18:54
zylopfaI have this new asset Email.pm, which is basically a Article asset with other fields18:55
zylopfasuch as subject,from,to,sendby,headers,message etc18:55
@preactioni'm making a similar promise: the 8.x API will remain compatible18:56
zylopfaeach Email is an email (ofc) from the mail server, and i store them in an EmailFolder.p,18:56
zylopfaThe Email asset is however not only a container for emails18:56
zylopfayou can also send emails from an Email asset18:56
zylopfait has www methods for that18:56
zylopfaso forexample you can make "Stationarys"18:57
zylopfaby creating Email assets in the stationary folder with predefined fields18:57
zylopfaand for sending them you can use its www method18:57
zylopfaAnd the question!18:57
zylopfaIs it stupid to make the Email asset more than a container of email data? Is it stupid to also put functionality into it?18:58
+perlDreamerit's not necessarily stupid18:58
@preactionwell if you delete an Email asset, it should probably delete it from the server. 18:59
zylopfathe workflow that handle that, will fetch mail from a given pop3 server at a given interval18:59
@preactionbut my tactic for this would not have been to make an e-mail asset at all really. I'd just use IMAP and store everything on the remote server18:59
zylopfathe emails fetched will be stored in a EmailFolder as Email assets18:59
+perlDreamerzylopfa, the question is did you have to do something bad to make that work?18:59
+perlDreamerdid you copy and paste code?18:59
zylopfano no19:00
zylopfaI make my own assets19:00
+perlDreamerI think you may misunderstand me19:00
+perlDreamerin Email.pm, there is code for sending email.19:00
zylopfabut as Folder.pm only show things native to folders, i need an EmailFolder asset that show things native to emails19:00
+perlDreamerand in EmailFolder.pm, there is code for sending email19:01
zylopfaperlDreamer, yeah the Email.pm asset i made myself, its like the article asset but it has also www functions to send email19:01
+perlDreamerif you copy and pasted the code from Email.pm to EmailFolder.pm, then there are two copies of the same code19:01
zylopfathe EmiaFolder has no code for sending mail19:01
zylopfano no19:01
+perlDreamerah, in that case, no worries19:01
zylopfaIts cause the normal Folder.pm asset of webgui cant show other things than files19:02
zylopfaand in my email list i need t show emails, which have subjects and from and date received etc.19:02
zylopfaI think its smart to use the WebGUI stuff already in there and then make the thing work with different templates19:03
zylopfaI will show my project soon in the bazaar19:03
* perlDreamer goes to the gym19:14
zylopfatake care!19:22
scrottiegrr.  the only dump of alumni I can find that hasn't already been upgraded successfully was dumped incorrectly, not working around MySQL nits, and doesn't preserve the triggers.19:35
@preactioni don't think mysqldump preserves triggers19:36
@preactionin fact, mysqldump has a big long list of "Yeah, this doesn't really work, but use it for backups"19:36
scrottie /*!50003 TRIGGER `insert_groupings` AFTER INSERT ON `groupings` FOR EACH ROW BEGIN ...19:46
@preactionhm. weird19:46
scrottie --skip-extended-insert19:47
scrottieFrank's suggestion.19:47
scrottiehttp://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11711 ... any suggestions on trying to replicate that one using an already upgraded database?  my backup plan is to just restore one of these (I just blew the last restore away), drop that table, and go through the series, but that seems kind of weak.19:48
@preactionit won't be possible, upgrades change the schema, can't go back and can't re-run19:49
@preactionunfortunately Frank decided to not keep an eye on the upgrades, and we don't keep an upgrade log19:50
@preactionthere's no way it just MAGICALLY did not get created, something happened to kill a single upgrade script, the one where the table was added, before the table was added19:50
@preactionthe upgrade.pl runner should have stopped there, but sometimes it just goes on its merry way like nothing happened19:51
@preactionit's not the best upgrade system, but it's far better than anyone else's :p19:51
@preactionmost likely it's a db integrity issue that wasn't accounted for in the script: assuming an asset exists (WebGUI::Asset->new or otherwise must always be checked for undef), or assuming something else exists19:52
scrottieit seems quite sane to me.  a system of limited scope beats a system of limited scope with a thousand half-assed fixes piled on top of it.19:52
@preactionusually it's assuming an asset can be instantiated. since we return undef instead of throwing, you have to be careful when instantiating a huge list of unknown assets19:52
@preactionindeed, and it works. unlike many CMS products that simply do not have an upgrade path at all19:53
@preactioni'd say use the alumni dev site, after you ask Frank so he can notify the client. just save the current db and restore it after you're done19:57
@preactionperlDreamer mentioned it might be something with the "IF NOT EXISTS" clause19:57
scrottiemy MySQL accepted the syntax.  creating the table when it didn't exist and ignoring it when it did both worked.  but I don't know what minimum versions are.19:58
scrottieif I don't have an older SQL dump from before this upgrade then I'm not sure what the dev machine will buy me.19:58
@preaction5.0.44 i believe is the minimum we require19:58
scrottieI've got two machines here more or less set up to run this.19:58
@preactionthe dev site might accept the dump (can't be 100% sure, being mysql)19:59
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scrottiewell, I can restore the slightly older dump, but fixing the breakage would be involved.20:00
scrottiein fact, doing just that without realizing the scope of it consumed most of my earlier efforts in setting up an alumni dev install.20:00
@preactionyou could pull a new dump from app1 if you wanted, though if the current one doesn't work not sure what a new one would do20:00
scrottiebut the breakage there could be probably be ignored for the purpose of that ticket.20:01
scrottiethe current one works, but it's current.  its currentness is the problem.20:01
scrottieoh, from app1.20:01
@preactionthe alumni production site shouldn't be at 7.9 yet20:01
@preactionapp1's mysql is a slave to app2, and is only used to pull dumps / backups20:01
scrottieokay, I haven't touched that machine yet.20:02
@preactionstupid myisam table locks20:02
scrottie... and I don't seem to have a login.  could I talk you into pulling a dump over to dusk or else setting me up so I can?  either way.20:03
+perlDreamerscrottie, if you don't run that upgrade on a mirror or alumni, all the way down to WRE, it won't do the job20:17
scrottieargh.  oh, boy.20:17
+perlDreamerkhenn has a dump of that on alumni20:18
@preactionmost likely. it could be any number of variables. 20:18
+perlDreamerwe just need to copy it over to dusk for scrottie to pull down20:18
@preactioni gave him a login, he's got it20:18
scrottieI think I'm going to do a dry run on my local machine here.  then I'll try to match the WRE version if necessary.  I can't think of anything else to replicate from that environment.20:20
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@preactionlooks like 8 just got one more major feature: fixing versioning21:31
@preactionaddRevision will no longer create tags automatically, tags will be smarter, and content approval will be easier to deal with21:32
+perlDreamerhow did you shoehorn that in?21:34
@preactionJT, Frank, and I have wanted it forever, so I shuffled Paul's YUI3 project back (as we've never promised anything in re JS)21:35
@preactionYUI3 can go in after January, np21:35
@preactionbut breaking versioning API cannot21:35
+perlDreamerlet's be sure it has really, really good tests21:35
+perlDreamerand let frodwith know that I'm available for extra bandwidth21:35
@frodwithsomeone said my name21:36
@frodwithit was YOU, wasn't it!21:36
+perlDreamerchanging the versioning API will have a nasty downstream effect on tests21:36
+perlDreamerand other ripples21:36
@preactionhe's not done w/ helpdesk v2 r1 yet, but after that he'll probably be doing this, or someone else will while he takes on other 8 tasks21:36
+perlDreamerso if you need extra fixing bandwidth, please holler21:36
+perlDreamerremoving Class::InsideOut is a nice hobby21:36
+perlDreamerbut we can live with it for a long time21:36
@preactionno, we need to reduce our dep load. it's out of control :p21:37
+perlDreamerI don't think we can pull C::IO out of Crud21:37
+perlDreamerbut it will be the last one that I do21:38
@preactionwell, we've got a plan for replacing Crud w/ DBIC which will happen during the 8.x cycle21:38
+perlDreamerand I'll have a change to see what it does to in-core modules21:38
+perlDreamerif it's not too bad, it's still doable21:38
+perlDreamerbut CRUD is, cruddy21:38
@preactionextending a CIO object shouldn't require CIO, and shouldn't break if the original object isn't CIO anymore. that's the point of CIO i thought21:39
@frodwithyeah, what's the issue with Crud?21:40
@frodwiththe crux of the crud, if you will21:40
@preactionit's not DBIC21:40
+perlDreamerit's the accessors21:40
@frodwithwhat about them?21:40
+perlDreamerwe'd have to live with the ->get interface, forever21:40
@frodwithI don't follow.21:40
+perlDreamerone of the goals of moving to Moose is to have real accessors21:41
+perlDreamerinstead of $self->get('title')21:41
+perlDreamerI can convert Crud over to using Moose with no problem21:41
+perlDreamerbut I don't know what it will do Crud's accessors, and introspection21:42
@frodwithdoes crud -have- accessors, or does it just use the get interface?21:42
+perlDreamerit just has get21:42
+perlDreamerand WebGUI::Definition does provide ->get as a compatibility measure21:42
@frodwithI don't think CIO has introspection21:43
+perlDreamerNo, but Crud does21:43
+perlDreamerfor building, removing and altering tables21:43
@frodwithI'm not seeing how that's related to CIO21:44
+perlDreamerperhaps it's not21:44
+perlDreamerbut it won't be as straight forward as working with the other 12 modules that I've changed from C::IO to Moose21:44
+perlDreamerhence, "I don't think we can pull C::IO from Crud"21:44
+perlDreamerI would really like to be wrong21:44
+perlDreamerbut I have nasty suspicions otherwise21:44
@frodwithwell, I don't know what's been involved in the other guys, but Crud's introspection is all based on crud_definition, which would be real easy to port 21:46
@frodwithI mean, naively port.  Giving it a nice syntax and whatnot, a la what you guys have done with assets, would be harder.21:46
+perlDreamermaybe we should just do that, and then do the real thing when we get DBIC21:47
@frodwithwell, if we're trying to get rid of the dep on CIO21:48
@frodwithit's a step in the right direction21:48
@preactionbam! nestable AdminBar accordions!21:48
@frodwithI didn't know you had a spiceweasel, preaction.21:49
@preactionI bought one to kick it up another notch!21:49
+patspamlol @ haarg21:56
+patspamI just tried out Devel::SawAmpersand on the wg codebase21:57
+patspamfound that we were hit by it21:57
+perlDreamer*::Packer, yes?21:57
+patspamtraced it back to JavaScript::Packer (and hence HTML::Packer)21:57
+perlDreameror is it internal?21:57
+patspamwent into cpan to report the bug21:57
+patspamand found that haarg reported it 13hrs ago ;)21:57
+perlDreamerpatspam, did you know that there is no XS equivalent of HTML::Packer?21:58
+perlDreamerlike, JavaScript::Minifier::XS21:58
+perlDreamerif there was, it could be a big speed-up for WebGUI21:58
+perlDreamerand it wouldn't use $& :)21:58
@preactionthere are other lower-hanging fruit :p21:58
+perlDreameryes, but this would be a benefit to lots of people22:05
+perlDreamerbut writing "yet another" HTML parser, in XS and C, might not be very fun either22:06
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SDuensinAny of you done much research into proxy-type software for placing web servers behind a firewall?22:46
SDuensinI want such a simple proxy that it *has* to already exist.  Why rewrite it if it does?22:47
@preactionyou want just an HTTP proxy?22:47
@preactionVarnish or Nginx22:47
SDuensinBasically, I want a single box that can accept connections on port 80/443/whatever and use the HTTP header to determine which back end server to send it to.22:47
@preactionVarnish has a few more features for "HTTP Accelerator", and nginx i believe has more features for load balancing, round-robin, and dropping bad nodes22:48
@preactioni'd probably take nginx then22:48
@preactionbest part: they're both faster than any other httpd out there22:48
SDuensinI just want to be able to point a ton of web sites at the same IP and still host each web site on it's own box internally.  Make sense?22:48
@preactionsquid or nginx are your choices probably22:49
@preactionsquid is a specialized proxy, so might have more towards what you need22:49
@preactionbut to clarify: you want to point a domain at your proxy IP, you want the proxy to do an internal IP lookup of the incoming domain and fetch the requested page from the internal server <- note two different DNS views here22:52
SDuensinExactly.  22:52
@preactionmod_proxy could technically do that, provided /etc/hosts and/or DNS views were set up correctly22:52
@preactionthe main thing is going to be making sure DNS is set up correctly22:53
SDuensinIt will be.  I'm smaert.  :-)22:53
@preactionperlDreamer: we build the releases on plainblack.com correct? 23:10
+perlDreamerbut what do you mean by "build the releases"?23:11
+perlDreamerthere's a step, wgd build23:11
+perlDreamerwhich makes the new database and uploads23:11
@preactionwe don't do the final build of the release on frozen? making the tarball23:11
@preactionwgd build is on frozen, no?23:11
+perlDreamerwgd build does not make tarballs23:11
+perlDreamerwgd dist does, and it is done on frozen23:11
@preactionbasically we need to take default.plainblack.com and update the 7.9.x releases with it every week23:14
@preactionwell, every release23:14
@preactionwould it be wrong to do wgd build on frozen?23:14
+perlDreameryou'd need a database23:15
+perlDreamera clean one23:15
+perlDreamerbut that'll nuke the current default content, yes?23:15
@preactiondefine clean23:15
+perlDreamer"clean" = "create.sql"23:15
+perlDreamerdo you just want me to upgrade that server?23:16
@preactiondefault. is on frozen23:16
+perlDreamernow I'm totally confused23:16
+perlDreamerhow about we do this vocally?23:17
+perlDreamerlet me grab a headset23:17
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scrottieI am developing a profound dislike for MySQL.23:56
@preactionhow was the new Post notification stuff implemented?23:56
@preactionit seems that t/Asset/Post/notification.t would never pass: the first commit sends a notification, the second commit sends one too23:57
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--- Day changed Thu Jul 15 2010
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+perlDreamerthey're set to skipNotification for the first commit?00:01
@preactionah that could be why, they didn't look to be00:02
@preactionalso, all these "installCollateral();" subs that copy files from t/supporting_collateral. were they supposed to have been changed to modifying @INC instead?00:03
@preactionlike t/Help/isa.t00:04
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+perlDreamerI'm pretty sure they were merged into WebGUI8:HEAD00:12
+perlDreameryes, they were00:12
@preactionyeah probably were00:12
+perlDreamerno installCollateral in 800:12
@preactionand i happened to unmerge them :p00:12
* perlDreamer wants patspams Template Change wizard00:13
@preactionis there a t/VersionTag.t test failing on 8? something about can't read the temp config file?00:23
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+perlDreamerhere's the list of failing test: http://gist.github.com/47611000:28
+perlDreamerSearch.t is failing on my dev box due to a UTF-8 issue that is Ubuntu specific00:28
@preactionPaths.t doesn't fail for me00:29
@preactionnor InOutBoart.t00:30
+perlDreamerhm, must be an older run00:40
+perlDreamerInOutBoard will stop failing after it's merged, and it's intermittent anyway00:40
+perlDreamerGraham fixes Paths.t00:40
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r04a16ed / (5 files in 3 dirs): Move Shop/Transaction to Moose. Change core modules to suit. - http://bit.ly/bQFfBQ00:51
+perlDreamerpreaction, I need to rerun the suite after that last change, I'll repost the results when it is done.00:52
+perlDreamerI also need to eat two oreos00:52
@preactionk, i'm doing a full run myself00:52
+perlDreamerwant to race?01:02
@preactionhttp://gist.github.com/476165 <- done!01:05
@preaction1047 wallclock sec :(01:05
+perlDreameryeah, with the addition of several thousand Class::Test tests for assets, it added about 8-10 minutes to the test run01:08
* perlDreamer is confused01:08
+perlDreamerEMSSubmissionForm.t should still be failing01:09
@preactionit is, and the formbuilder ones too01:09
@preactionbut otherwise that's them all01:09
+perlDreamerVersionTag, run_asset should not01:09
@preactionwell once i finish another rebase i'll push01:09
+perlDreamer1057 wallclock seconds01:10
+perlDreamerand it looks like I broke the ITransact test01:10
+perlDreamerthat's what I get for not eating my oreo's01:10
@preactionwtf. i fix the merge, i add the change, but when i git rebase --continue is says i didn't01:13
* perlDreamer goes to pick up the tactical 11-year old from science camp01:16
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+perlDreamerITransact test is fixed01:47
@preactionso i get to go through another rebase? yay!01:47
+perlDreamerno, just cherry-pick it01:48
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r934a93a / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Transaction.pm t/Shop/PayDriver/ITransact.t): Fix bugs from the Transaction.pm Moose work. - http://bit.ly/dhmKmY01:48
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@preactioni wonder if we have more testing code than actual code01:50
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+perlDreamerIt's possible, but I doubt it01:50
@preactionRenaming t/Cache/CHI.t => t/i18n/critic_labels.t <- Really?01:56
@preactionwell it did it01:56
+perlDreamerit shouldn't have01:57
+perlDreamerthat's not the way 8 is01:57
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+perlDreamergit does weird crap01:58
@preactionyeah. aborted the last hour's worth of work and just did a normal merge.01:58
@preactionhttp://gist.github.com/476243 <_ WTF02:21
@preactionwhatever. i'll push tomorrow after i merge whatever everyone else does again...02:24
+perlDreamerpreaction, I'll hold off pushing any more C::IO work02:25
+perlDreameruntil I see your commit02:26
+perlDreamerthat way, I can handle merging anything that I do02:26
+perlDreamerand it should ease up on what you need to do to get done02:26
@preactionnm. it worked. now i get to merge all my getEditForm changes tomorrow... i will probably not be in a good mood...02:27
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r708b47d / (169 files in 58 dirs): (log message trimmed)02:29
CIA-59webgui: Merge remote branch 'upstream/WebGUI8' into 8-merge02:29
CIA-59webgui: Conflicts:02:29
CIA-59webgui:  docs/gotcha.txt02:29
CIA-59webgui:  docs/previousVersion.sql02:29
CIA-59webgui:  lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum.pm02:29
CIA-59webgui:  lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Navigation.pm02:29
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r3ae21d6 / (6 files in 4 dirs): Merge remote branch 'upstream/WebGUI8' into 8-merge - http://bit.ly/c1CvNh02:29
+perlDreamerawesome, I'm up to date02:34
+perlDreamerand there are only 10 more modules to convert to Moose!02:40
+perlDreamerlater, all02:40
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scrottie" Re-indexing site to clear out default synopses..."... that's taking a while, unsurprisingly.  maybe it'll be done in the morning.11:56
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zylopfaGreasings indeed!16:47
SDuensinNooooooooooooooooo!  MS extended support for XP until 2020!16:49
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zylopfayeah i heard its a disaster!16:53
SDuensinIt's bad enough they support Windows 7.  :-)16:53
* SDuensin thinks he likes this zylopfa fella.16:54
zylopfaalso internet exploder 6 will be more dominant with the extended support for xp16:54
SDuensinExploder!  Yes!  A second person using the term!16:54
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zylopfaIts true words :D16:56
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SDuensinMS does it again.  Not only are XP and IE6 going to live on, but something *WORTH* keeping is now dead.  Although nobody here cares, there will be no third season of "1 vs. 100" on Live.  :-(18:02
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zylopfaGreetings Webguians!18:25
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+perlDreamermorning, webgui folks19:21
+perlDreamerdue to my recent bout of work-related sleeplessness19:21
+perlDreamerI've been wondering if, in WebGUI 8, we should rethink our hard-line No-Windows stance19:21
SDuensinLots of moron^H^H^H^H^H^Hcompanies insist on it.19:23
zylopfaGreetings perlDreamer 19:24
zylopfayou seriously need some rest I think19:24
+perlDreamerindeed, zylopfa19:24
+perlDreamerSDuensin, we've recently had a 100% increase in the # of windows customers19:24
+perlDreamerfrom 1, to 219:24
zylopfawhy would you wanna run it on windows?19:24
+perlDreameryou can't ignore those growth numbers19:25
SDuensinThat many, huh?  Wow!19:25
zylopfathe wre is genious, so its piece of cake installing it on a linux server19:25
zylopfaI know cause i have done it both ways, both the "compile all the things needed from source" and installing with wre19:26
+perlDreamerzylopfa, but there are still people who are stuck on Windows, due to corporate policy, or whatever19:26
zylopfayeah :( I am stuck on windows on my work pc also but at home and at my own business i am linux19:27
@preactionperlDreamer: last i knew, knowmad was slowly migrating away, and our other support client is in the process as well19:27
@preactionfrom windows, not webgui19:27
zylopfapeople just have to get used to that webgui is not just a shitty cms system, its a freaking development platform for the net with a brilliant api19:28
@preactionit's nice to hear that, usually all us devs who've been drinking the koolaid for a long time have plenty of gripes to make ;)19:28
@preactioner.. wait, "shitty cms"? :(19:28
zylopfawell the more i work with programming things for webgui the more i think its genious19:29
* perlDreamer loves webgui as it is. It's only you young malcontents that stir the pot.19:29
+perlDreamerpreaction: it is stipulated, webgui is a crappy CMS, it's just less crappy than everything else out there19:29
zylopfapreaction, you take it out of context!#¤&¤&#&¤19:29
@preactionand yes, it is mainly "it does what needs doing, but it could do so better" 19:29
@preactionzylopfa: just messing with you ;)19:29
zylopfayeah i can tell somehow ;D19:29
zylopfaI am so happy with webgui that when one of my client asked why he couldnt get the work he needed in joomla19:30
zylopfaI told him, fine go make it in joomla, and come back to me when you need it to work in webgui19:30
@preactioni've had a few of my friends wax philosophical on joomla's suck19:31
zylopfaI am the european webgui ambassador!19:31
zylopfapreaction, I dont know about joomla to be honest19:31
@preactionand every week i come across somebody trying to solve a problem that WebGUI has solved years ago, simply and elegantly19:31
@preactionnor i, just what other people have told me19:32
zylopfajust that everyone else who dont know about cms systems talk about it cause they heard of it19:32
@preactionor drupal19:32
zylopfayeah :(19:32
zylopfaOnce in my young days 10 years ago i tried to make something like webgui19:32
zylopfaas i loved perl19:32
@preactionthose two have the mind-share, but that's really all they have19:32
zylopfaand when i work now with webgui i can see there has been thought of everything from the api point of view19:33
zylopfasure i was pissed off in the start with webgui, but then i learned to read the developers guide, and from then on i can say there is nothing at all i cant program for webgui19:33
zylopfaalso i love the testing that is done with webgui19:35
+perlDreamerzylopfa, you're always free to add more testing code ;)19:41
@preactionthe testing is what has allowed us to really push boundaries with 7.9 and 8.0 while still maintaining stability and, in some respects with 8, backwards compatibility19:41
zylopfayou are the testing pro Colin! are you gonna make a test section in the new developer book for v.8?19:41
+perlDreamerif they let me!19:42
zylopfathey will!!19:42
@preactioni thought the current one had a test section19:42
zylopfathere will be a book for the 8 right?19:42
@preactionand we haven't yet figured out what we're doing for the dev guide for 819:43
zylopfayeah but thats the 7.19:43
zylopfaare you gonna make one preaction ?19:43
@preactionmake one what?19:43
zylopfaa developers guide for webgui 819:44
@preactionmost likely, but as mentioned, we haven't discussed how and when19:44
zylopfayou have one buyer already ;D19:44
@preactionthe books are a huge amount of work for us that have little real gain (we're talking 200 hours of work, if we billed at $80 an hour...)19:45
zylopfayeah i know its lame little you get out of it :(19:45
@preactionand what little we get out of it we get to feel guilty over because it's not free :p19:46
zylopfaahhh it shouldnt be free19:46
@preaction"Oh, WebGUI is free but you have to buy the documentation" has been shouted by many many people19:46
zylopfaits the best book investment i ever done19:46
zylopfawell preaction , they have the choice of reading the source code to understand or reading a book by the developers on how it works19:47
@preactiontheir other argument is that it shouldn't be necessary, that because it's necessary WebGUI is too complex and difficult to learn19:47
+perlDreamermaybe we could release every other line as free docs, and let people pay for the ones in-between?19:47
@preactionwhich is funny because every other CMS / framework has their own book, a few published by O'Reilly19:47
@preactioni'll admit that our source code needs better docs, but even that isn't a comprehensive how-to guide like the book is19:48
zylopfawell who said it should be easy to understand the api if you come from a php background?19:48
zylopfaperldoc is their friend also19:48
@preactioneven hardcore Perlers, used to things like Catalyst19:48
zylopfathe docs are fine but the developer book makes you learn the system by example19:48
zylopfawhats Catalyst?19:49
zylopfaother than a cicco switch?19:49
@preactionthe Perl MVC framework19:49
@preactioni do mean THE19:49
@preactionbut hopefully we'll be allowing Cat-based assets in the next few weeks here19:49
zylopfa"No complicated object hierarchies" that put me off19:50
zylopfafrom the catalyst site19:50
zylopfa"ou don't have to care much about session handling or authorization. "19:50
zylopfaAre they writing a api that is the complete opposite of webgui?19:51
@preactionnot everyone likes MVC, i think it has some problems, but I'd like the flexibility of allowing people to move their already catalyst-based apps into a WebGUI site19:51
zylopfayeah i guess preaction 19:51
@preactionno, catalyst allows you to build apps. WebGUI takes a larger approach and controls an entire site19:51
@preactioncatalyst is just a framework, webgui is a CMS19:51
zylopfaisnt webgui a framework also?19:52
@preactionyes, there are plugin points19:52
zylopfaCatalyst will make web development something you had never expected it to be: Fun, rewarding and quick.19:53
zylopfaI thought it was that already with webgui though19:54
@preactionthey're two different ways of looking at things: WebGUI packs all functionality into Assets. Catalyst separates the concerns into Model, View, and Controller19:54
@preactionboth have their merits19:55
zylopfayeah i guess19:55
@preactionbut Catalyst doesn't have a CMS19:56
zylopfano and imo you need it for web apps19:56
@preactionit's another different way of looking at things: Catalyst tends to power more focused websites, WebGUI tends to power broader websites19:57
zylopfaStill webgui is so much more than a cms, thats my least concern when i push it on my customers19:57
zylopfahttp://www.investeringsguld.dk/ i am making atm with webgui, its a gold investment site 19:58
CIA-59wgdev: Doug Bell master * raeea562 / lib/WGDev/Command/Reset.pm : allow reset to work with CHI - http://bit.ly/9XMNCt19:58
+perlDreamerzylopfa, you should post some of your sites to the WebGUI Sightings page19:59
+perlDreamertavisto loves to add new WebGUI sites up there19:59
zylopfayeah sure thing19:59
zylopfaI will do that19:59
+perlDreamerand it would get you some more attention in the WebGUI community19:59
zylopfayeah true19:59
+perlDreamercurrently, only the IRC folk know you well19:59
@preactionand do you have a company website? or an e-mail address?20:00
zylopfaI am working on my new thing for the bazaar20:00
zylopfaI am under tha name Peter Bryde in the bazaar20:00
zylopfaMade 1 most downloaded thing and one sms from forms tool20:00
zylopfaI am working on a pop3 webmail system now, which is soon done20:01
scrottiepeople hate technologies that make them feel stupid.  MVCs are simple enough that people can quickly understand them and then quickly visualize how to make a blog in it.  then all they have to do is convince themselves that a blog is all of the CMS they need.  WebGUI is opposite there too.  people have to convince themselves that all of these features aren't going to get in the way.  that's an extraordinary unlikelyhood.  features almost alwa20:01
scrottieys get in the way.20:01
scrottieI need coffee.20:01
* perlDreamer hooks up another bag to scrotties IV feed20:01
zylopfascrottie, yeah I myself are VERY fond of the dataform asset and the fact that you can make Workflows when forms are submitted20:02
@preactionagreed. Asset is huge, and that's a problem.20:02
zylopfaand the whole Cron system is genious20:02
+perlDreamerAsset is huge, but you only have to use as much of it as you want20:02
@preactionbut the rest will prevent it from working if it's not handled correctly20:03
@preactionand/or cannot be overridden if you want to do something else entirely20:03
scrottieit would be an interesting experiment to run the underlaying architecture by people -- objects that present themselves for edit, view, etc, know how to aggregate data with their parents, fit into a tree structure, add children to themselves, etc -- independent of what has been implemented on it.  it would be interesting to hear people's thoughts on developing on that rather than developing on a codebase built on top of that.20:03
zylopfawell you basically have to know a little bit about oop and how the definitions work then you are good to go20:03
@tavistozylopfa, you can also email me a list of sites that you've worked on or know that are wG-powered20:05
@preactionheh, get them to agree to the theory, then say "Well, here's an implementation!"20:05
zylopfatavisto, i have some frisky sites also, dont know if its appropriate, some erotic story sites20:05
@tavistoinfo@plainblack.com will work and I'll see it in the queue20:06
zylopfasounds awesome!20:06
@tavistowell Doug will certainly want to see them20:06
zylopfaone of my story sites has 10k users20:06
zylopfaand 15k stories20:06
@tavistohe's been trying to reach out to the pornographic industry so that they become addicted to wG and pour billions of dollars into the development of it20:06
scrottieor offer an implementation with only simple example examples and a lot of sub-packages on CPAN.20:06
zylopfahaa priceless20:06
@preactionand WG is perfect for it! it already has paid subscription plans built-in20:07
@preactioneasy-to-use image galleries20:07
zylopfayeah preaction !20:07
@preactionjust need to add video support and we're golden!20:07
zylopfatRUE WORDS20:07
zylopfai made my own story handeling assets though before webgui got one20:07
@preactionand i've got a friend who develops for Viddler, i've been asking him for help with hooking into Viddler's API to have it host video for WebGUI sites20:08
zylopfathat sounds awesome20:08
scrottiecompanies like ccbill.com do a good job of payment processing, dealing with payment customer service for you, helping you into resoprocity agreements with other content providers, login-protecting your site (attached to the payment/subscription system)... they even ssh into your host and set things up for you.20:08
zylopfayeah i tried ccbill, ibill, paypal, stormpay for my site20:09
zylopfabut when it comes to payment they go bankrupt it seems, atleast ibill did20:09
zylopfaand i forgot to read the disclaimer on paypal regarding frisky content20:09
zylopfaso now the site is free use and has a point system ranking users among eachother, using the karma system and some leveling schemes20:10
@preactiondo you have a content reporting system in place? for blatant spamming or objectionable content?20:11
@preactioni think we wrote one a while back but never got around to adding it to core webgui20:11
zylopfai have editors to check the stories before they get submitted to the site20:12
@preactionthat works too20:12
zylopfabut yeah a general content reporting tool would be good20:12
+perlDreamerpreaction, there's a spamStopWords thing you can put in the config file20:12
@preactionhm... now why isnt' that documented?20:13
zylopfastill its a somewhat erotic site so i let the users moderate if there are some loonies20:13
@preactionit's not in WebGUI.conf.original20:13
zylopfaalso with user to user mail, you can ban people20:13
@tavistoJT made that for me for the matrix20:13
@preactionheh, it's not in the matrix, it's in Post and WikiPage20:14
@preactionbut still, it's not in conf.original, which means it doesn't exist :p20:14
* preaction files bug20:15
zylopfahttp://www.thefirsttime.com is the site btw. will  not put it on webgui site ofc. 20:15
+perlDreamerOh!  A new bug20:18
* perlDreamer grieves20:19
zylopfa:O what happend20:19
+perlDreamerthere's a bug in WebGUI20:19
zylopfa:O WHERE??20:19
zylopfaTELL ME PERLDREAMER!#¤%#¤&20:20
+perlDreamerpreaction posted it20:20
@preactiondon't make me out to be the bad guy here!20:22
zylopfapoor preaction 20:22
+perlDreamerI guess it's better to grieve than to be ignorant20:23
@preactionbetter the bug you know than the bug you don't!20:24
zylopfatavisto, I will send a list with the sites that are webgui, then you can sort the inapropriate ones out 20:25
@tavistosounds godo20:26
@tavistogood even20:26
zylopfasend it now Tavis20:36
zylopfasent ^20:37
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scrottiehrm.  well, that did finish running during the night.  the problem in the bug as reported didn't come up.  that part went off fine.  but immediately afterwards, it blew up as a result of trying to add a primary key to data that contains exactly one duplicate record.20:46
scrottieif that had happened before, I could plausibly blame that for keeping the WikiMaster table from being created.  but no.20:47
@preactionso can't reproduce one bug, but discovered a different ont :p20:47
scrottiemonthly backup snapshots would help reproduce bugs as well as give a fallback in case the system clobbers critical data and no one notices for a while.20:48
scrottieit would be interesting to run this upgrade process on a few of those and see what else shakes loose.20:49
@preactionyes, our backup strategy is not ideal. that's something i want to address while we're moving to EC220:49
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@preactioni am finally merged up to date with 8! yay!20:55
* preaction waits for the spam20:56
@preactionwait for it!20:56
zylopfaare you running 8 on production?20:56
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r2561195 / t/Asset/Wobject/InOutBoard.t : fix syntax error in InOutBoard test. still fails (+22 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/9rZ0fy20:56
@preactionaww... that was disappointing20:56
@preactionzylopfa: gott no. 8 is barely alpha-ready. many broken things20:57
@preactionmany more incomplete things20:57
zylopfayeah i thiought there wasnt, just saw the changes in the api yesterday20:57
@preactioni just finally merged a rather large changeset i made to 7.9 and 8. taken me 2 days20:58
+perlDreamerpreaction, the InOutBoard test should not fail after the merge20:58
+perlDreamerit doesn't fail in master anymore20:58
@preactionso now i can finally write some tests to give to colin so he can do some 7.9 work and i can get back to fixing Asset Helpers20:58
zylopfasweet preaction  :D20:58
@preactionit does20:58
@preactionperlDreamer: i'll check it out and reconcile20:59
zylopfaColin is the testmaster or monster 20:59
@preactionbut if it's any consolation, i think we have fixed a few more tests with the merges20:59
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zylopfais there any thoughts about webgui and html5?21:01
zylopfathats more in the template department though21:01
@preactionit would not be supported by IE6-7 or even 8, so we can't migrate21:01
zylopfabut also the new html5 socket things that sounds fun in html521:02
zylopfatrue preaction 21:02
zylopfaand internet exploder will go on for 2020 or so21:02
@preactionWebSockets, but that's not as much HTML5 as it is JavaScript, and can be used without having an HTML5 doctype afaik21:02
zylopfayeah but on the server side you have to have some socket things? some things that use sockets, like socket enabled assets?21:03
@preactionyou'd need another daemon running, WebGUI is HTTP21:03
zylopfahow does the sockets work though? isnt it a major addon to the webserver?21:03
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r79fa8ca / t/Asset/Wobject/InOutBoard.t : reconcile IOB test with working version in master - http://bit.ly/cMQjeM21:03
@preactionyou could make a handler that responds to the socket init request and spawns or notifies the socket daemon21:04
zylopfaits too bad in the web world that you have to wait for microsofts outdated technology to die21:05
@preactionyeah, esp. in the business world, which is our "target market"21:05
zylopfalynx is rendering html way better than ms ie21:06
zylopfaapart from the pictures, but then again ms ie 6 cant render png's21:06
SDuensin(01:06:30 PM) zylopfa: lynx is rendering html way better than ms ie   <-- hehehe21:09
zylopfahaa yeah!21:09
* SDuensin prefers "links".21:09
zylopfadamn it i gotta go for today, i hail from europe and its getting lateish here :( atleast as i have to be at work tomorrow21:12
zylopfatake care fellow webguians!21:12
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Haaargmy enter button just broke in half21:16
@preactionon the laptop?21:17
@preactionwe still got that non-functioning one i think if you want a new enter key21:23
* perlDreamer is out for a bit21:26
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Haaargi'm glueing it right now, we'll see how it turns out21:31
@preactionif you were working with the Admin Console, would you be annoyed if you had to refresh the entire screen to see any new Asset Helpers that were enabled?21:58
@preactionor would you be more annoyed with waiting for an AJAX call to return to give you a list of Asset Helpers available for the current asset?21:58
@preactionIOW: should I put all the helpers in the HTML, or make them be grabbed via ajax?21:58
@preactionFun! getAssetsInClipboard will instantiate all those assets before returning them, which is completely unnecessary...22:04
@preactionMore fun! I need an asset to get the clipboard assets, but it needs to instantiate the root asset to call getLineage22:05
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CIA-59WebGUI: translation * r12534 /translations/German/German/Shop.pm: Updating German on translation server22:56
CIA-59WebGUI: translation * r12535 /translations/German/German/Asset_Carousel.pm: Updating German on translation server22:56
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@preactionis it possible to have more than one CSRF token active? would that be a bad idea?23:27
@preactionwww_pasteList requires a CSRF token, www_paste is deprecated, but I need to be able to have as many active paste links as possible23:29
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@preactionoh, crap you weren't here :p23:43
@preactioni need more than one CSRF token, is that a bad idea?23:43
@preactionwww_pasteList requires a CSRF token, www_paste is deprecated, but I need to be able to have as many active paste links as possible23:43
+perlDreamerthe token validates the whole form23:44
@preactioni'm doing the Clipboard tab of the AdminBar right now23:44
+perlDreameryou can use the same token multiple times23:44
+perlDreamerit validates the user's content, not any particular action23:44
@preactionbut if an edit form is created, it would have a new CSRF token and invalidate all my old paste links23:45
+perlDreamerit uses the CSRF token from the user's session23:45
+perlDreamerwhich stays the same for the whole session23:45
+perlDreamerone session, one token23:45
+perlDreamernew session, new token23:45
@preactionokay, awesome23:45
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2410ee2 / lib/WebGUI/Types.pm : Add a Hash type to go along with Array types for handling JSON. - http://bit.ly/9IrcNv23:53
+perlDreamerwhy do I keep typing: git diss SomeFile.pm?23:53
@preactionyou frontin essé?23:53
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r229e8e1 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Transaction.pm : Document that there are no automatic writes anymore. - http://bit.ly/a3UvDe23:57
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--- Day changed Fri Jul 16 2010
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3bc6548 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Transaction.pm : Fix a typo in the error message. - http://bit.ly/b30jId00:29
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd28397f / (3 files in 2 dirs): Move TransactionItem to Moose. - http://bit.ly/cdWp0O00:29
+perlDreamertime to celebrate00:35
+perlDreamerA bug was closed in 8!00:36
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6072188 / (18 files in 3 dirs): Remove upgrade files in wrong location. Update upgrade directory to 8. - http://bit.ly/dlrwpm00:36
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r13c5614 / (7 files in 2 dirs): Fix bootstrapping problem with upgrade into WebGUI8 - http://bit.ly/9INucB00:36
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+perlDreamerso, with URL dispatch00:37
+perlDreamerurl.rss should call www_viewRss00:37
+perlDreamerwould url.edit call www_edit?00:38
@preactionnot currently00:38
+perlDreamerI guess what I'm asking is, don't we have to be careful when the system starts taking over URLs?00:38
+perlDreamerwe've always let people use pretty much anything00:38
@preactioni don't plan to change anything with the current dispatch system, just add the .rss in the RssFeed aspect and see how things happen00:38
@preactionyes, i have a plan00:38
+perlDreamerI'll get the Faceman and Murdock together00:39
@preactionall questions shall be answered by the robust tests i shall write!00:39
+perlDreamerhah, robust!00:40
+perlDreamerThey don't even pass!'00:40
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rad6cd05 / (12 files in 2 dirs): Refix the upgrade version. - http://bit.ly/9XgP6400:40
@preactiondoes perl have a diff engine module? preferably one that doesn't rely on `diff`00:43
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+perlDreamerare you actually doing it?00:56
@preactionnow we just need to be able to generate pretty diffs of paragraphs00:56
+perlDreamerthere's a nice formatter in SVN::WEb00:57
+perlDreamermaybe Diff::Formatter::Html?00:57
@preactioni hope to. given two revisions calculate the differences00:57
+perlDreamerit's overdue00:57
@preactionString::Diff uses Algorithm::Diff to do exactly what we want00:58
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@preactionyep. perfect. absolutely perfect.01:00
* perlDreamer is off to retrieve the Tactical Eleven Year-Old01:00
+perlDreamerback in a while01:00
@preactionmight add this to 7.9 too, just for shits and giggles01:00
@preactionyou sure he hasn't been upgraded to a Strategic Eleven Year-Old?01:01
+perlDreameroh yeah, definitely tactical01:01
+perlDreameryou drop him into a situation, and you are assured victory due to excessive damage caused01:01
+perlDreamerwhen his self-guidance module kicks in, we'll upgrade him01:02
@preactionah, so his devastation is limited to a skirmish. it's not a theatre-changer01:02
+perlDreamerno, not yet01:02
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CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r2e15891 / (lib/WebGUI/Session/Style.pm www/extras/admin/admin.js): display asset helpers (+11 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/9mObcs01:21
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CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * radfa7be / (3 files in 2 dirs): make Asset Helpers panel pretty - http://bit.ly/aMf5EN01:33
@preactionHaaarg: i added the improved upgrade system to the "Feature Status" page, is there anything else you added that I may have missed?01:35
@preactionwell, anything that isn't part of the WebGUI 8 tickets01:36
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+perlDreamerreorganized file system locations01:54
+perlDreamerpreaction, I don't suppose you have a copy of Office 2007 for the Mac?02:00
@preactionperlDreamer: nope02:00
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+perlDreamerscrottie, what's this other upgrade error that you reported?02:14
@scrottiewas just putting together a ticket... let me push up my code.  that's probably easist.02:14
+perlDreamerhow about pasting a diff?02:15
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@scrottiehad to add an rsa public key for the fast machine to github.02:25
@scrottieI guess I could make sure that that actually exists in the database there and isn't an artifact of MySQL's dumping/undumping.02:26
+perlDreamerthat wouldn't hurt02:28
+perlDreameryou're not supposed to be able to add a group to a group twice02:28
+perlDreamerso it's worth tracking down to see if maybe you've found 2 bugs, instead of 102:28
@scrottiewebapps chronically suffer from race conditions.02:28
+perlDreamerthe odds of two different admins adding the same group as a member of a 2nd group is pretty slim02:29
+perlDreamerand there's no automated process for doing that in WebGUI, in the core02:29
@scrottieah.  not automatic.  hmm.02:29
+perlDreamerusers to groups, perhaps02:30
+perlDreamergroups to groups, no02:30
+perlDreameralso, remember that khenn did that upgrade once, and only reported the 1 problem02:30
+perlDreameralthough, it does seem odd that everyone who tries to run an upgrade on that dumpfile encounters __some__ kind of error02:31
+perlDreamerjust not repeatable from person to person02:31
@scrottieyeah.  earlier, I had to stop myself from suggesting that people attach database dumps to bug reports they file ;)02:31
+perlDreameras long as you're buying the diskspace....02:32
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r404498c / lib/WebGUI/Account.pm : Move Account over to Moose. - http://bit.ly/97Md6k02:33
CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9d4d303 / lib/WebGUI/Account.pm : Really remove Class::InsideOut from Account.pm - http://bit.ly/b6Xdo502:34
@scrottieanyway, my dump was different from his.02:34
+perlDreamerthere's a scatological joke in that statement, somewhere02:35
@scrottieselect count(*) as num, groupId, inGroup from groupGroupings group by groupId, inGroup having num > 1 ... yup, there's one (probably the same one, didn't look) over there too.  it wasn't just dump/undump.02:38
+perlDreamerdoes it seem odd to you that khenn would not have come across that same, fatal error when doing his upgrade?02:39
+perlDreamerto me, that leads to one, and only one conclusion02:39
@scrottiethe only reasonable explanation is that this problem developed very recently.02:39
@scrottiethere are other unreasonable explanations.02:39
+perlDreamerah, but his dump has the same info in it?02:39
@scrottieI didn't get a copy of his dump.  I had to ...er... take my own.02:40
@scrottieearlier today, I was lamenting not having his dump.02:40
@scrottieactually, I didn't know who else reported that problem.  I only knew that someone had a problem and Frank posted the ticket.02:40
@scrottieI guess now that I know who had the problem, I could ask for a copy of his/her dump.02:40
@scrottieI'm really getting the feeling here though that monthly snapshots and testing against each of those would be a good idea.  large datasets are great for shaking out bugs.02:41
@scrottiebut there's a lot to do.  alas.02:41
@scrottiekhenn, are you around?  do you monitor this channel?02:42
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@scrottieperlDreamer, are you thinking that rather than my opening a ticket and pushing that fix, I should just go through channels to have it manually fixed at the source and assume it to be a one time fluke?  I'm happy with either way.02:43
@scrottieor as happy as I can be dealing with MySQL ;)02:43
+perlDreamerno, I'm thinking that your patch does the right thing02:43
+perlDreamerbut we need to know how the duplicate got added in the first place02:44
+perlDreamerwhich means, more test writing02:44
@scrottierun-time tests or unit test?  02:44
@scrottieif this happened exactly once on a busy site, I'm guessing I won't have the instincts to figure out how to manage a unit test that does it in any except intentionally and directly.02:44
+perlDreamerunit tests02:44
+perlDreamerdo your best02:45
+perlDreameror die like the rest02:45
* perlDreamer likes abusing movie quotes :)02:45
@scrottienot to be difficult, but this sort of thing is generally a big project.02:45
* scrottie usually doesn't get the reference...02:45
+perlDreamerit's from Hackers02:45
+perlDreamerand this is 1-2 hours of test writing02:45
@scrottieah.  that's been a long time.02:45
@scrottieto replicate this bug?02:46
+perlDreamerto attempt to replicate this bug02:46
+perlDreamerI'd spend one hour on triage of the current dump02:46
+perlDreamerwhich group was it added to02:46
+perlDreamerwhen was it added02:46
+perlDreamerthat may give you a clue on how to write the tests02:46
@scrottieI can look at it.02:47
@scrottieI don't remember, does khenn generally monitor this channel?  what's a good way to get his attention.02:47
+perlDreamerhe doesn't follow very closely.  Skype/email02:48
+perlDreamercell phone02:48
+perlDreamerknocking on his front door02:48
+perlDreamertrashing his Essentia02:48
+perlDreameractually, right now I think he is in channel, cursing at us for not being smart enough to figure out the bug02:51
+perlDreamerand he's working on trying to do it himself02:51
+perlDreamerpreaction, how set are you about constructors throwing exceptions for missing sessions?02:54
+perlDreamerMoose will throw a conniption, but not an exception02:54
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+perlDreamergot a quick question?03:07
+perlDreamerI'm about to head out to dinner03:07
ITIL_GuyAnybody know where I can see if WebGUI can meet an RFP I'm trying to fill...03:08
ITIL_Guy?? I have requriements... Just no familiarity with WebGUI.03:08
+perlDreamerhave you checked out the feature list on webgui.org?03:08
+perlDreamerread the wiki?03:08
+perlDreamersearched the forums?03:09
ITIL_GuyYeah... but I needed some specifics... 03:09
+perlDreamerwell, I do need to go, but there are other people in channel who can help out03:09
ITIL_GuyFor instance, does it have performance monitoring (metrics, KPIs, CSFs, etc...)03:09
ITIL_GuyChange management, Release Management, etc???03:09
ITIL_GuyI have about 40 different requirements... Is there a more detailed "features" list somewhere?03:11
ITIL_GuyThanks for your help, BTW. :)03:11
@scrottieITIL_Guy, hang tight.  during EST business hours tomorrow in this channel is probably your best bet.  I think a lot of people are at dinner right now.03:11
ITIL_GuyI didn't want to "cut'n paste" here... Not good IRC netiquiette, I'd presume. ;)03:12
@scrottiePastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com # from the /topic03:12
ITIL_Guy10-4 Scrottie. I'll check back in then. Thanks for the heads' up.03:12
@scrottieITIL_Guy, no problem.  or if you hang around now, likely someone will unidle.  just be patient =)03:13
@khennITIL_Guy:  Send the requirements to jamie@plainblack.com03:13
@khennor tavis@plainblack.com03:13
ITIL_GuyWill do. Sending now...03:13
@khennwe'll probably be in touch tomorrow during regular business hours03:13
@scrottiehey khenn, did you want me to try to replicate http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11711 from your dump?  I'd be happy to try.03:13
ITIL_GuyThanks everyone. Be well. 03:23
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@scrottiehttp://gist.github.com/477806 ... told me I was up to date, then it told me I couldn't fast forward, then it couldn't rebase, now it can't pull.  grr.04:40
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@scrottielooks like github is having a bad day.04:53
@preactionwhy would two openssh servers magically die on the same day and require updating?04:58
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@scrottiethose Debian system?05:00
@preactionno, CentOS. probably 405:00
@scrottiehmm.  well, this one bit me yesterday:  http://www.webopius.com/content/350/solution-to-error-command-line-line-0-bad-configuration-option-permitlocalcommand05:00
@preactionnope, 5.005:00
@scrottieI certainly hadn't given apt permission to muck with ssh.05:01
@preactionhttp://gist.github.com/477819 <- that's the error. looks like I should remove pam_loginuid.so from pam.conf, but for some reason upgrading openssh fixed it05:05
@scrottiethe idea of critical Unix apps mucking up their internal state horrifies me.  so far, I've almost completely managed to avoid Windows.  I certainly don't want to see Linux become a Windows reincarnate.05:11
@scrottieat least with regards to the corrupting itself thing.05:25
* scrottie gives up and fetches a fresh clone05:53
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CIA-59webgui: Scott Walters master * rc95ef7a / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.9.4-7.9.5.pl : 06:32
CIA-59webgui: Remove duplicates before adding a primary key to groupGroupings.06:32
CIA-59webgui: Fixes #11723. - http://bit.ly/dxSsRe06:32
@scrottieyeah, there really is one point of entry for this... WebGUI::Group::addGroups() with only that one admin using it.  I'll write a trivial test or two tomorrow.  packing it up here.  06:35
@scrottiethe group that got double added was 'Junior Admin'.  that matches one of the groups in an asset I imported but I don't see any earthly way referencing that group in the asset could, in the import logic, cause the group to be double added.06:36
* scrottie thinks outloud. or doesn't think, outloud. one or the other.06:36
@scrottieand I don't see anything in the upgrade scripts, at a quick ack, that would bang that.  the unit tests though are another story... 06:38
@scrottiebut off the top of my head, none of those reference that group.  hmm.06:38
@scrottiethe other dump that does trigger that apparently is still around.  I'll try that in the morning too.06:41
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+MrHairgreaseonly one hour to go17:30
+MrHairgreaseand the it's weekend!17:30
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CIA-59webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra7cc369 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t): Update Tax.pm for Moose. - http://bit.ly/bA7bSj19:03
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zylopfaGreetings webguians19:10
+perlDreamerhola, zylopfa19:11
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+perlDreamermorning, scrottie19:36
@scrottiemorning, perlDreamer19:36
zylopfaGreetings fine scrottie 19:36
@scrottiehowdy zylopfa19:37
+perlDreamerHaarg, Haaarg, you JavaScript::Packer patch was accepted and released19:37
+perlDreamerbut no nows on CSS::Packer and HTML::Packer19:37
CIA-59webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r0647287 / www/extras/admin/admin.js : remove kludge by updating location manually - http://bit.ly/cKnmIW19:39
zylopfaI made an Email.pm asset, to delete all email assets (there are no collateral tables), is it enough just to delete the Email table in the database? 19:53
zylopfaor are their assetId's stored in other tables aswell?19:53
@preactionasset, assetData, and if you inherited from wobject, wobject19:54
@preactionyou should really delete assets from the API using ->purge19:54
zylopfaits because i wanna uninstall my pop3 mail system and try to install it like a user would19:54
@preactionor, 7.8 and 7.9 include a sbin/fixBrokenAssets.pl script that can delete them for you if they get corrupted19:54
@preactionare you using the sbin/installClass.pl? your uninstall sub should do this:19:55
zylopfasweet, you are fast to answer correctly!19:55
@preactionfor ( WebGUI::Asset::Email->getIsa( ) ) { $_->purge }19:55
zylopfaohh sweet then it deletes them all in a good way19:55
@preactionyou'll ahve to look up getIsa, it's in WebGUI::Asset somewhere19:55
@preactiongetIsa returns an iterator, which is a fancy way of saying "subref that returns a single item when called"19:56
zylopfaSo i reckon it will look through the system of all the Email assets and their corresponding assetId19:56
@preactionso it's more like: my $iter = getIsa(...); while ( my $asset = $iter->() ) { $asset->purge }19:56
@preactionit will instantiate every Email asset in the system and then purge them19:56
+perlDreamerand you need to handle undef, and exceptions inside the loop19:56
@preactionwe have an example somewhere, no?19:57
+perlDreamerperldoc Asset.pm, /getIsa19:57
@preactionalso, boilerplate needs to die. die. die. die. die. die. die. die.19:57
zylopfamy popo3 email system is soon finished19:57
zylopfapop3 even19:57
+perlDreamerdude, if you can design out the need for handling undef and exceptions, I'm all for it19:57
zylopfaits a light weight webmail system that gets emails from pop319:57
@preactionif you intend to release to bazaar, i highly suggest looking at sbin/installClass.pl for your install procedure19:58
zylopfaisnt that for 7.9 or so?19:58
zylopfaI found some install class19:58
zylopfawhere oyu inherrit from installable19:58
@preactioninstallClass.pl has been around since 7.6 i believe19:58
@preactionyes, that one19:58
zylopfaahh yeah i was wanting to do that yeah sweet19:58
@preactionbest thing is that it magically installs the asset by introspecting the definition19:59
zylopfaas far as Workflow Activities you have to install em normally right? or i can make an install wrapper19:59
zylopfayeah preaction I read it yesterday its damn sweet19:59
@preactionadd the install for those to sub install { } in your asset19:59
zylopfaall you need to do is purge the collatteral or make the colatteral if you got 19:59
@preactionso by installing the asset, they install all the collateral workflow activities and template packages20:00
zylopfaI want the installation of the system to be no sweat to the users20:00
zylopfaThe system i make isnt complete but its a very good pointer so people can see what you can do with webgui, making the things work together and not re-inventing everything20:01
zylopfaIts kind of wierd my design desission to have Email assets also contain functions to send the mail20:02
zylopfaThe idea at first was to make it only contain email data and no functionality20:03
zylopfalike the Article asset20:03
zylopfabut then i thought you can let the user make Email.pm assets with predefined content for stationarys and such and call20:03
zylopfato send email using the Emails predefined fields20:04
zylopfagotta explain my aproach thouroughly though in the manual20:04
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zylopfawelcome plainhao 21:06
plainhaohi, zylopfa21:06
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zylopfaAnyone know this. I am making a form_message template variable in my code as a html area21:38
zylopfabut somehow it wont accept the value i give it21:38
zylopfaWell it will kind of, it will show it in the textarea html box, but if i edit the box to put additional text it will not submit it when i submit its form21:39
zylopfait will only submit the predefined text, and not the additional added by the user21:40
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ITILGuyHello Everyone...21:47
ITILGuyAnyone know where I can get a detailed details list?21:47
ITILGuyHuh... "detailed details" list = "detailed FEATURES" list... sorry... no caffeine today. ;o)21:48
@bopbopITILGuy - I can email you one21:48
@bopbopyou can send me your email address at kristi@plainblack.com21:48
ITILGuyYou rock, bopbop.21:48
@bopbopI've got a pdf I can pass along21:48
ITILGuyWill do.21:48
ITILGuy Sending now... Done.21:49
ITILGuyThanks again, bopbop.21:49
@bopbopno problem21:49
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zylopfaDoes anyone know how i can pass a value to a HTMLArea, where this value contains HTML22:40
zylopfawhen i do it in the code the resulting htmlarea form gets corrupted22:41
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zylopfaAnone who can help with a small problem?23:17
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@scrottiezylopfa, you can try pasting a snippet of code showing what you're doing.00:07
zylopfaI figured it out now friend, was some instance of my Email asset i had in the folder that didnt have some of the new field descriptions00:09
zylopfabut thanks a lot00:09
zylopfaits gonna be a kick ass webmail system i am making00:11
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CIA-59webgui: Paul Driver master * r35efc69 / lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm : reduce memory usage while importing packages - http://bit.ly/9MGPQZ01:40
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zylopfaAnyone familiar with adding a "workflowActivity" to the config file?15:32
zylopfaI have seen how you add a Asset to it in code but i cant figure out how to add a workflow activity15:33
zylopfaI fail at the datastructure thing :(15:33
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@preactionzylopfa: you need to choose what kind of object the workflowactivity works against and then: $config->addToHash( 'workflowActivities/My::Object::Type', 'My::Activity::Type' );18:08
zylopfaGreetings fine preaction !!18:08
zylopfaI found out myself, not so elegant but i did18:09
zylopfa my $value = $config->get("workflowActivities");18:09
zylopfa  my $array = $value->{"None"};18:09
zylopfa  push @$array,"$class";18:09
zylopfa  $value->{"None"} = $array;18:09
zylopfa  $config->set("workflowActivities",$value);18:09
zylopfaI am making documentation now for my pop3 webmail system and some installation script18:10
zylopfafinished the pop3 webmailer for webgui now if anyone would care to check it out20:40
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daviddelikatanybody know if I can just put a new version of WRE code over an old version and go, or is there some recommended upgrade process?02:53
@preactionwhat version of WRE?02:57
@preactionif it's pre 0.8, there is a special procedure02:57
daviddelikatI'm going from 9.1 to 9.303:00
daviddelikat( 0.9.1 --> 0.9.3  )  03:01
@preactionthen just lay it over the top and run sbin/wreupgrade.pl03:01
@preactioncheck docs/upgrade.txt too03:01
ColinHarmanQuestion: when doing ui layout for web, do you use photoshop, fireworks, or something else? Why?03:04
@preactioni use omnigraffle, because it works for me03:04
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@scrottiethe setup wizard won't go away in my WebGUI8.  just for context, how much has the UI been worked out on this thing?  I know tests are in horrifyingly good shape.22:52
@preactionthe UI hasn't been worked out very well22:53
@preactiondelete from settings where name="specialState"; <- should work22:54
@preactionoh, and put a bug on http://webgui.org/8 if you can. if you can't i'll add you22:54
@scrottiehrm.  I don't see a link to open a ticket on webgui.org/8 but I know I have access to the other one.  different?  yeah, add me when you get a chance.22:58
* scrottie gives a tip of the imaginary hat23:19
--- Day changed Tue Jul 20 2010
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CIA-59webgui: Scott Walters WebGUI8 * rf2561a7 / lib/WebGUI/HTMLForm.pm : Don't AUTOLOAD calls to DESTROY. Avoids Could not load WebGUI::Form::DESTROY because Can't locate WebGUI/Form/DESTROY.pm in /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Pluggable.pm line 247. - http://bit.ly/92EKxK01:18
@scrottielet me know if that isn't too minor for a helpdesk ticket.01:18
@frodwithscrottie: does autoload catch perl's DESTROY calls, or was something calling DESTROY explicitly?01:51
@preactionno, that's not too minor, but that might be 7.x bugworthy.01:51
@preaction8.x is getting rid of WebGUI::Form thank god01:52
@scrottiefrodwith, AUTOLOAD gets DESTROY events.01:55
@scrottieit's annoying.01:55
@frodwithanother reason not to use AUTOLOAD.01:56
@preactionhttp://gist.github.com/482174 <- does this make logical sense? i think i got it right01:56
@frodwithI think that one might actually be cited in PBP, now that I think of it01:56
@preactionit is, that's one more reason WebGUI::Form's going away01:56
@frodwithYou could do it more sanely with whatever that module is that loads all the modules in a particular namespace, then installing subs in WebGUI::Form for the right ones01:58
@preactionModule::Pluggable, or WebGUI::Pluggable01:58
@preactionyeah, but i want ::Form gone. it's not introspectable, it's not editable (it works with raw HTML for crap's sake)01:58
@frodwithyeah, no argument here01:58
@frodwith*hates it*01:59
@scrottiewould it be bad form to write a command line script to create and close bugs, tagged with a commit hash?01:59
@frodwithSounds to me like -excellent- form.01:59
@preactionno, that'd be great01:59
CIA-59webgui: Scott Walters WebGUI8 * ra8e179a / lib/WebGUI/Wizard/Setup.pm : We call directly into WebGUI::Wizard::HomePage, but it isn't necessary loaded it. 'use' it. - http://bit.ly/bvp8lL02:06
@scrottiehrm.  still not seeing a link on http://www.webgui.org/8 to open a ticket.  do I need to relog or anything silly like that?02:11
@preactionyou shouldn't have to, but try it?02:21
@preactionor perhaps browser cache02:21
@scrottieI run without a cache just so that's not a possibility ;)02:22
@scrottienope.  maybe I need to enable ActiveScripting.02:24
* scrottie snickers02:24
@scrottiewe can deal with this later too.02:25
@scrottie'scottwalters' on that site, btw.02:26
@preactionyeah, you're in the right group02:26
@preactioni could clear the server cache, that might clear it up02:26
@preactionokay, try now02:27
@scrottieno go.  the link should be right by the subscribe/unsubscribe link.  at least that's where I'm looking for it.02:28
@preactionare you logged in?02:29
@scrottie"Hello scottwalters"02:31
@preactiondamn. i became you and i can see it02:32
@preactionoh well, i'll diagnose that one more tomorrow02:32
@scrottiestrange.  alright.  no problem.02:32
@preactiongotta get these offsite backups working so we aren't naked in the breeze if the brand-new servers spontaneously explode02:32
@scrottiedon't worry about this.  I'll remind you later.02:34
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spacebathi, I'm trying to get webgui running on a server that's running other things, so I'm not using the WRE06:07
spacebatthe one hiccup I'm having trouble with is setting the location of log.conf06:08
spacebatthough my apache2 config points to the right place PerlSetVar WebguiRoot /usr/local/webgui06:09
spacebatfor some reason apache fails to start with that site enabled, because /data/WebGUI/etc/log.conf cannot be found06:09
spacebatall instances of /data/WebGUI in the config have been replaced with /usr/local/webgui06:10
spacebatso its a bit mysterious why /data/WebGUI is coming up at all06:11
@preactionincluding in /usr/local/webgui/sbin/preload.perl ?06:11
spacebatI'll have a look06:12
@preactionyou could just put WebGUI in /data/WebGUI and just let it alone06:12
spacebatI'm not a fan of creating random directories under /06:13
@preactionyou'd rather edit the WebGUI source each time you upgrade06:13
spacebatyou're right, preload.perl had /data/WebGUI hard coded06:13
spacebatI'd rather run something that relied on a config file for that06:13
@preactionthough i hope by 8 we'll be away from that stupid /data/WebGUI jazz06:13
spacebatand where possible uses DRY to avoid jumping around keeping files consistent06:14
spacebatyes I hope so06:14
@preactionwell 8 uses plack, no more mod_perl requirement06:14
@preactionooodles faster, working on complete installation from CPAN06:15
@preactioni'd prefer a /webroot/sitename/webgui.conf sort of thing, but that's in the future06:15
spacebatwe're a mod_perl shop06:15
spacebatbut plack can work with MP2 I think06:15
spacebatwhere do the speed improvements come from?06:16
@preactionjust won't be as fast as say, starman06:16
@preactionjust from being away from mod_perl2 is a huge improvement06:16
@preactionusing nginx as the reverse proxy is a huge improvement too06:16
@preactionnew caching mechanism in 8 (also in 7.9, but you have to configure it)06:16
spacebatwe'll not be able to use nginx - the uni I work for is conservative06:17
@preactioni mean, apache/modperl2 can still be in front of the plack server, but it slows things down (modperl2 is more than just serving web requests, it's apache modules in Perl)06:17
@preactioneh, apache mod_proxy works just as well06:17
@preactionor even psgi as a CGI if you want ;)06:17
@preactionnow all we need to do is get away from the mysql requirement06:18
spacebatwe're restricted in what underlying tech we can use, eg must be on redhat enterprise06:18
spacebatnot my first choice :)06:18
@preactionand be installable from CPAN of course (which implies relocatable root)06:18
@preactioneh, i'd prefer debian, but i maintain a dozen centos 5 boxen that aren't so bad06:19
@preactionapt > yum no question though06:19
@preactionbut yes, that one place in preload.perl should be the only place /data/WebGUI is hardcoded06:19
@preactionand there might be a way to set the webguiRoot from the Apache config file before preload.perl is run, getting rid of the problem (i'll accept that patch)06:20
@preactionwe've just never had anyone care enough yet to actually do it and test it and everything06:20
@preactionhell, i think right now i'm running a symlink from /Users/.../WebGUI to /data/WebGUI just so i don't have to deal with it when I update from git06:21
spacebatnext up spectre was looking for its config in /usr/local/etc not /usr/local/webgui/etc but I worked around that with a symlink06:22
spacebatnow it can't connect to the database, probably need to fiddle with the mysql server now06:23
@preactionis spectre in /usr/local/webgui/sbin?06:23
@preactionhmm... then it should look in ../etc06:24
@preactiondid you run it from cd /usr/local/webgui/sbin?06:24
spacebatah, I ran it from /usr/local/webgui as etc/spectre.pl :)06:24
spacebatFindBin is your friend06:25
@preactionanother thing nobody's ever cared enough to fix, but really __FILE__ would work (not sure FindBin is really necessary anymore)06:26
@preactionthe WebGUI debian package relocates the webgui stuff, perhaps you can steal some code from them?06:27
spacebatok I'm at the initial admin screen, but its all white because /extras isn't mapped properly (my bad no doubt)06:27
spacebatactually I'm setting this up on ubuntu, but I wanted to run the latest as our production servers are RHEL06:28
@preactionyeah, Alias /extras /usr/share/webgui/extras or someting06:29
@preactionhttp://packages.debian.org/sid/web/webgui <- if you download the "webgui_7.8.23-1.debian.tar.gz" there's a patches directory to show how Debian did it. you could even make an RPM out of it06:29
@preactionbut all those patches they have to do I hope to make obsolete. all the WebGUI libs should be in @INC anyway06:30
@preactionthat alone would do it06:30
spacebatok I've started going through the setup wizard, and its time for lunch06:34
spacebatok I'm getting a drowning sensation, will have to start RTFM08:06
@preactionif you need help with the UI, look up the "WebGUI Primer"08:21
@preactionalso look up "How to give WebGUI your own style", it's a good intro to the basics08:22
spacebatwhat we've got at the moment is an in-house CMS of sorts that operates on the filesystem08:35
spacebatsites can be nested and permissions are by site, and can propagate to child or sub sites08:35
spacebatin this context a subsite is just a subdirectory that has a site definition in the database08:36
spacebatthe database app then creates an apache config that can publish working virtual host configs, for dev/uat or production08:37
spacebatfrom my brief look at WG, it looks quite free-form; is it possible to restrict the actions of a user/group to only affect URLs in a given portion of the namespace?08:38
spacebatwe're under threat from a java liferay/campuseai portal that is being sold as the one site to rule them all08:52
spacebatnaturally, we'd rather stick to open source perl for our purposes and restrict the java portal to internal sites/apps08:54
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+bartjolmmm, I can't seem to be able to access i18n.webgui.org14:04
+bartjolbut then in corretc language14:04
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@preactionbartjol: it's down, give me a day or two to fix17:28
+bartjolah, well, I won't come swimming to you to haunt you17:29
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zylopfaGreetings Webguians!17:54
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wueFor how many times webgui.org has been lagging?18:05
@preactionwe're having some sign-in problems on webgui.org, we'll get them fixed shortly18:07
zylopfaawesome preaction 18:07
wueOk have you been hacked too? Cause I've been phished. I've posted on wg.org18:09
wueHere is a screenshot :http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4258/spamrz.png18:09
@preactionanyone who registers on webgui.org can post to the bug list. the url is www.plainback.com, not plainblack18:10
wueI know, and links are directed to an exe file.18:11
wueand the subject was : try the new webgui application18:11
wuebut I haven't use my email address on any webgui related website other than wg.org18:12
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zylopfapreaction, isnt the backing firm18:22
zylopfasite plainblack.com?18:22
@preactionyes, our company is plain black. not plain back18:23
zylopfawhy would peeps go to plainback?18:23
@preactionso some fun little social engineering and a spoofed from: address creates chaos18:24
@preactionbecause not everyone reads closely18:24
zylopfaahh yeah ofc18:25
@preactionwebgui.org sign-in is fixed18:43
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zylopfagood work :D18:54
zylopfapreaction, what wobject would you love to see on the bazaar?19:18
@preactioni don't rightly know, we've got just about anything one could want19:20
zylopfayeah true words19:20
@preactioni had a chatbox thing that technically works but is by no means feature-complete19:20
zylopfaI'd love to make something for webgui though that people want19:20
@preactionthat'd be nice to be put into WebGUI core19:20
zylopfayeah or a helpline wobject19:20
@preactionwe have HelpDesk, we're working on v219:21
zylopfayeah but i ment chat like help line19:21
zylopfacould be used for many things though19:21
@preactionhttp://github.com/preaction/wg-chatbox <- there's the beginnings of one, it works, but it's not core-ready19:21
@preactionit has no unit tests, it's not i18ned19:21
@preactionand it could use a lot more features19:21
zylopfaahh so just small bits19:21
@preactionooh, a private-chat system would be nice as a WebGUI::Account plugin19:22
zylopfaI just made a webmail system for webgui19:22
@preactionWebGUI::Operation::Workflow needs a complete overhaul in the UI department19:22
zylopfaso you can fetch mail from pop3 and it gets into the mail system i made19:22
zylopfaand you can write mail out from it also19:22
@preactionotherwise there's the RFE list, http://webgui.org/rfe19:23
zylopfayeah I think i will be more active in there19:23
zylopfaI go by many names perhaps i should also cut down on those19:23
@preactionthey're ranked by "Karma", which means the top ones are the ones people want the most19:23
zylopfaI am Zylopfa and Peter Bryde and Titlandata19:23
zylopfai will look at it preaction 19:23
zylopfabut how can you know if you do one of them that someone is not already on it?