| --- Log opened Thu Jul 01 00:00:04 2010 | ||
| +perlDreamer | thanks for that tip | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| +perlDreamer | btw, merging pass 2 is proceeding well | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | some test is leaking carts | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | and I forgot to change the ENV code in Group.t | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | but we're up to 7.9.7 | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | and we should be fully up to speed by friday | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | probably earlier | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll just start merging after every 7.9 release | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | and that way, you won't get slammed with all my test editing, session work, indent changes and the like, too | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, what happens when you do this: git co master; wgd reset --config; git co WebGUI8; wgd reset -d | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I get session complaints during the upgrade that it can't start a cache object because there aren't any cache settings | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | which makes sense, since they haven't been added yet | 00:10 |
| @preaction | fun! | 00:10 |
| Haarg | yay session die die die | 00:12 |
| Haarg | anyway, my upgrades branch will fix that | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | am i still here? | 00:14 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 00:14 |
| Haarg | did you have any other thoughts on that upgrades reporting thing? | 00:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | no, the output is fine | 00:35 |
| * perlDreamer takes the kids to the dentist, I won't be back online until later tonight, maybe | 00:56 | |
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| @preaction | Which is it? Which way do we want to deal with JSON in asset data? As text or as an arrayref? | 01:10 |
| @preaction | or just half one half the other? that sounds good | 01:10 |
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| Haarg | i'm a big fan of inconsistency. | 02:03 |
| @scrottie | yeah, sometimes I am too. | 02:04 |
| Haarg | seems like BUILDARGS should be deserializing the data | 02:05 |
| Haarg | write is serializing the data | 02:06 |
| Haarg | so that seems kind of bad | 02:06 |
| Haarg | the Serialize attribute trait currently does nothing, but is just used as a marker | 02:07 |
| Haarg | which tells it to serialize data before writing it. but i don't see where it deserializes the data. | 02:08 |
| Haarg | both behaviors should probably be pushed into the trait itself, and have BUILDARGS and write call that | 02:08 |
| @scrottie | http://www.webgui.org/webgui/tv ... 404. I wanna watch videos! | 02:13 |
| Haarg | http://www.webgui.org/wgtv | 02:14 |
| @scrottie | thanks. | 02:14 |
| Haarg | where did you get that link from? | 02:14 |
| @scrottie | http://www.webgui.org/community ... first paragraph under the "webgui community" heading | 02:15 |
| Haarg | filed a bug for you http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11694 | 02:19 |
| @scrottie | ah, thanks. | 02:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: WebGUI::Type has a type for coercing Strings into JSON types | 03:47 |
| +perlDreamer | also, two tests away from a full 7.9.7 merge | 03:51 |
| +perlDreamer | last test fixed, again | 04:24 |
| +perlDreamer | time to run the suite | 04:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | all passing! | 04:44 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5e502fe / : Merge commit '17ce3572bfa4daf61c60d75dc49d6cc758f97b0b' into WebGUI8. All tests passing. - http://bit.ly/d4bZMG | 04:44 |
| +perlDreamer | merging 7.9.8 next | 04:48 |
| @scrottie | perlDreamer++ | 04:49 |
| @scrottie | you rock. | 04:49 |
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| @scrottie | I see template escapes. This is not good. | 06:07 |
| @scrottie | try again tomorrow I guess. | 06:07 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, what are template escapes? | 06:55 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 15:57 |
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| mducharme | dammit dammit dammit | 17:55 |
| mducharme | i'm in trouble with my boss... | 17:55 |
| mducharme | stupid spectre | 17:55 |
| @preaction | Haarg: i'm talking in 7.9. I'm trying to write a form control that produces and consumes serialized JSON, but if the field in the asset is also set the "serialized => 1" then my field (and Asset.pm) chokes on it | 17:55 |
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| @preaction | so both asset and my field need to be able to handle both situations, either you get the ref to serialize OR you get the string already serialized | 17:56 |
| Haarg | ah | 17:56 |
| @preaction | which, imho, just invites a whole shitton of problems | 17:56 |
| @preaction | mducharme: what's up? | 17:56 |
| mducharme | when I do webgui upgrades, I just use the webgui service to restart it afterwards.. it never told me that spectre didn't start properly | 17:56 |
| mducharme | this was months ago | 17:56 |
| mducharme | yesterday I noticed that spectre wasn't running.. started it, then we suddenly got like 6 months of backed-up "contact us" page emails all at once | 17:57 |
| @preaction | are you running the wremonitor.pl? it would have tried to restart i think | 17:57 |
| mducharme | no, I'm not | 17:57 |
| mducharme | obviously | 17:57 |
| mducharme | the issue was definately after an upgrade, because there was a missing comma from spectre, conf | 17:58 |
| mducharme | er spectre.conf | 17:58 |
| @preaction | add to root crontab: */3 * * * * /data/wre/sbin/wremonitor.pl | 17:58 |
| @preaction | i might be missing a *, forget how many you need | 17:58 |
| mducharme | who does that email to | 17:58 |
| @preaction | M H D M DM, no i'm right | 17:58 |
| @preaction | check wre.conf, it's in there | 17:58 |
| @preaction | but really, i'd get a real monitoring solution. wremonitor.pl will hold you over until you install and set up zabbix | 17:59 |
| @preaction | mental note: I should write a blog post to help set up zabbix to monitor WebGUI services | 17:59 |
| @preaction | zabbix is amazing. just amazing. i have 20 servers, they don't go down, and i get paged maybe once a month | 17:59 |
| mducharme | boss is mad at me now, he's like "I am not impressed, how do I know anything you do is working?" | 18:00 |
| mducharme | now I know for sure after an upgrade I will use wreservice.pl to start the services instead of just using the service script | 18:00 |
| mducharme | because the wreservice.pl told me spectre failed, the service script told me nothing | 18:01 |
| Haarg | strange | 18:01 |
| mducharme | yeah, I start the service with /etc/init.d/webgui start and it looks like everything is peachy | 18:01 |
| @preaction | but seriously, there is a right answer to his question: "You know because you can log in to zabbix and see the status of everything on our server" | 18:02 |
| mducharme | if I start the service with /data/wre/sbin/wreservice.pl --start all , it shows SPECTRE failed | 18:02 |
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| mducharme | preaction that looks like it would be something too big and complex for this business... | 18:04 |
| @preaction | but right now you have nothing. your server could go down in the middle of the night and nobody would know until morning | 18:04 |
| @preaction | i'm just saying. | 18:04 |
| @preaction | the alternative: we could host you, then i'd be in charge of keeping webgui up (and we'd monitor with zabbix) ;) | 18:05 |
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| mducharme | preaction - we have webgui hosting our browser start page | 18:16 |
| mducharme | people know right away if webgui isn't running because the browser start page won't appear :) | 18:16 |
| @preaction | right, but the idea w/ zabbix is that an Admin knows before a User knows. if the User tells the Admin, that's a failure | 18:16 |
| @preaction | in my situation, it's a pissed-off client | 18:16 |
| mducharme | I know that | 18:17 |
| mducharme | however, the person who I am transfering my admin responsibilities too | 18:17 |
| mducharme | er to | 18:17 |
| mducharme | she is supposed to be managing all of the systems | 18:18 |
| mducharme | she previously worked in a computer store setting up windows boxes and never touched a server | 18:18 |
| mducharme | she doesn't even know how to install webgui yet, so I've been managing the box | 18:18 |
| mducharme | setting up zabbix would just be one other system that she doesn't yet know how to manage | 18:18 |
| mducharme | it would cause more problems than it is worth | 18:18 |
| mducharme | if she was at a higher level, I would say it is fine | 18:19 |
| mducharme | but at the level she is at, she can't handle it | 18:19 |
| mducharme | I'm trying to make everything as simple as possible for her | 18:20 |
| +perlDreamer | mducharme, in that kind of situation, easiest is having someone else host and monitor the box | 18:26 |
| +bartjol | or use a monitoring system | 18:30 |
| +bartjol | we use nagios | 18:31 |
| @preaction | yeah, i suggested zabbix | 18:31 |
| @preaction | mducharme, you'd set up zabbix and she'd just get paged when something gets wrong. much like how perlDreamer gets paged, but i'm the one who configures | 18:31 |
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| +bartjol | aah, you get Colin to clean up your mess | 18:32 |
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| * perlDreamer doesn't mind | 18:49 | |
| +perlDreamer | preaction never yells | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction++ | 18:50 |
| +bartjol | ah, only JT does | 18:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | JT doesn't yell at me either | 18:50 |
| +bartjol | oh, only at me then ;) | 18:51 |
| @preaction | we pulled his fangs. all bark and no bite | 18:51 |
| +bartjol | ah, didn't know that | 18:52 |
| @preaction | they were getting long, interfering with his eating | 18:53 |
| @preaction | that's what happens when you keep JTs in captivity too long | 18:53 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, don't know if you backlogged last night or not. We're merged up to 7.9.7 | 18:53 |
| +perlDreamer | 7.9.8 will be today | 18:53 |
| @preaction | yep, good job | 18:53 |
| +perlDreamer | and then I'll merge every other week to keep us up to date | 18:53 |
| @preaction | once we start making 8 releases we'll need to keep up-to-date | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | hopefully we won't start making 8 releases until after 7.9 is stable | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | so we only have to maintain two branches | 18:54 |
| @preaction | actually, we need to do it around the same time | 18:54 |
| @preaction | and we'll have a 7.10. we have to | 18:55 |
| @preaction | otherwise where would we put new features that people want to actually use? | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | why for? | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 18:55 |
| @preaction | 8 won't be stable until well past Jan | 18:55 |
| @preaction | Jan it'll be beta | 18:55 |
| @preaction | we might even have a 7.11 | 18:55 |
| @preaction | (oh thank heaven) | 18:55 |
| @preaction | but from where i'm sitting now, 7.10 is necessary | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | you're been dying to say that, haven't you? | 18:55 |
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| @preaction | no, i just came to this realization like two or three days ago as i was planning 7.9 stable | 18:57 |
| @preaction | but yes | 18:58 |
| * perlDreamer sighs, but resolves to do the three branch dance | 18:58 | |
| +bartjol | oooh, I wanna have a movie of that | 18:58 |
| @preaction | if things go according to plan, we'll probably be doing a three-branch dance during all of 9 | 18:58 |
| @preaction | 8 had a huge time where we were completely unable to release | 18:59 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll be practiced by then | 18:59 |
| @preaction | huge changes that broke everything | 18:59 |
| @preaction | i want 9 to be much more subtle | 18:59 |
| @preaction | finesse | 18:59 |
| +bartjol | I get it, I don't get to touch it | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, you're welcome to come hack if you wish | 19:00 |
| @preaction | there's plenty of tasks for 8 and we're willing to mentor | 19:00 |
| @preaction | little things like running perltidy and making sure it doesn't break tests, running Perl::Critic and doing what it says, etc... | 19:01 |
| +bartjol | oh, I can do that. | 19:01 |
| @preaction | but every task that someone else can do leaves the big heads more time to work on special stuff (or even extra stuff) | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be cool to work in the database state/status stuff | 19:02 |
| +bartjol | do I need constant internet, or is a working local instaal enough, so I can post results later | 19:02 |
| @preaction | a working local 8 will be just fine | 19:02 |
| +perlDreamer | just like WebGUI 7 work | 19:02 |
| +bartjol | ah, haven't tried that yet | 19:02 |
| @preaction | might want to set up a WebGUI fork on github though, and commit your stuff to a new branch (that way you can get comments before you commit to mainline 8) | 19:02 |
| @preaction | and we can help with that too | 19:02 |
| +bartjol | excellent, but unfortunately I'm off on 2 weeks vacation | 19:03 |
| +perlDreamer | where are you sailing to? | 19:03 |
| +bartjol | Servia | 19:03 |
| @preaction | and it'll be here when you get back, no worries there ;) | 19:03 |
| +bartjol | I thought you guys were fast | 19:03 |
| @preaction | we are, but there's so much to do | 19:03 |
| @preaction | we're adding stuff faster than we're removing it, and we won't get to it all (that's part of the plan) | 19:04 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, are you sailing all the way around Spain into the Mediterranean? | 19:04 |
| +bartjol | well, I try to install 8 this weekend then, I suppose the wre won't work | 19:04 |
| +bartjol | no, we go by bus | 19:04 |
| @preaction | no, but it's a lot easier. you don't even need apache anymore | 19:05 |
| @preaction | just mysql, imagemagick, testEnvironment.pl, and then "cd /data/WebGUI; plackup app.psgi" | 19:05 |
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| +bartjol | well, building an environment is good for my skills | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: have you seen this: http://neography.com/experiment/circles/solarsystem/ | 19:05 |
| +bartjol | is that a native mysql install? | 19:06 |
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| @preaction | doesn't matter how mysql is installed | 19:06 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: nice | 19:06 |
| @preaction | pluto's inaccurate, but still very nice | 19:06 |
| +bartjol | cool, no problems there then | 19:07 |
| +bartjol | I'll be a WG8-janitor | 19:07 |
| +bartjol | but it is feeding time | 19:08 |
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| @preaction | yay! about time i got someone else helping me push this cart | 19:08 |
| @preaction | wait, do we ever test Asset->update? | 19:09 |
| @preaction | i mean, it looks like we have coverage from the myriad of stuff we test that actually uses update | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I think t/Asset.t has an update test | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | but if you wish, you can add something to t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm, too | 19:12 |
| @preaction | you mean t/Asset/Asset.t | 19:12 |
| @preaction | i'm still working in 7.9 | 19:12 |
| @preaction | humph. 8 would let me add stuff to the object's metaclass to test serialize => 1 | 19:13 |
| @preaction | instead, in 7.9, i'd have to add a WebGUI::Asset::TestAsset package in the test script to create a definition that exercises the definition / update relationship stuff | 19:14 |
| @preaction | at least, recently, i haven't been complaining as much about needing to write tests. i've been enjoying it | 19:15 |
| @preaction | something else i thought about today: Would it be better to wrap WebGUI inside of Catalyst, or would it be better to wrap Catalyst inside of WebGUI? | 19:17 |
| @preaction | i'm leaning towards the latter right now, wrapping Cat makes us able to support legacy Assets and Catalyst at the same time (and then, later, move to Catalyst-based applications exclusively) | 19:17 |
| @preaction | (if, of course, we decide to move to Cat) | 19:17 |
| * perlDreamer doesn't know enough about Catalyst to respond | 19:21 | |
| @preaction | nor do i, which is why i'm not Sure | 19:21 |
| @preaction | but it would be a huge increase in flexibility for WebGUI if it could dispatch to Catalyst apps | 19:22 |
| @preaction | and then we could add our own helpers to make things RAD | 19:22 |
| @preaction | or use what's available | 19:22 |
| @preaction | the idea being to reduce the amount of code we have to maintain in a vaccuum and use the best of the Perl community | 19:22 |
| -!- carogray [~Caroline@c-75-68-17-12.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #webgui | 19:23 | |
| +perlDreamer | I'd almost rather we reimplement in Catalyst | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | so that Catalyst could take advantage of things like our Users, Group and other classes | 19:28 |
| @preaction | they'd be able to either way, really | 19:28 |
| @preaction | WebGUI would give Catalyst $c object a way to reach the stuff it needs to | 19:29 |
| @preaction | the problem with reimplementation is always time, we've never had it, we never will | 19:29 |
| @preaction | which is why Auth has not been touched in years, not even touched "oh, we'll reimplement"... WHEN? | 19:29 |
| @preaction | but if we make ways to slowly migrate to better systems, that will happen. not all at once, but as we have time | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | sure, that makes sense | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | like adopting Moose and CHI now | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | DBIx later | 19:32 |
| @preaction | right | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and opting for other things down the road | 19:32 |
| @preaction | Moose was drastic, CHI not so much (which is why it's in 7.9 as well) | 19:32 |
| @preaction | PSGI was drastic, but enables a lot of this migration stuff | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | in 7.9 it's different though | 19:33 |
| @preaction | the code is different, a little, but the configuration is the same (so you can move right to 8) | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | we'll be fixing Merge problems from WebGUI::Cache to CHI for a long time, until we leave the 7.9 series compeletly | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, did you get the export controls email from SF? | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we qualify for reducing export controls on WebGUI itself | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | but many of the CPAN modules that we use won't | 19:44 |
| @preaction | i got the e-mail, and yes we don't directly implement encryption | 19:45 |
| @scrottie | there's a lot of overlap between WebGUI and Catalyst in the dispatch and presentation department. try to mix them and there will be lots of spare screws and nuts laying around on the floor and things hanging off of things. making things interoperate between them though would be awesome. | 19:51 |
| @scrottie | mducharme, I had a situation like that once years ago. It sucked, but it was a good learning experience. now if something needs to be up, at the very minimum, there's a cron placing a test order with WWW::Mechanize or the like daily and the client is told that if the daily test order doesn't come in, call me. | 19:52 |
| @preaction | yeah, the idea i have is making WebGUI have a single entry point to the asset system (a dispatch method), which could then be overridden to allow Catalyst-based assets | 19:52 |
| @scrottie | fun, fun, fun. | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, what were you talking about last night when you mentioned "template escapes"? | 19:54 |
| @preaction | right now, cat is possible, it's just not pretty and you don't get much of WebGUI's other stuff unless you build it yourself. (open a session yourself, load the webgui libs, etc...) | 19:54 |
| @scrottie | oh, that. | 19:54 |
| @scrottie | my alumni dev setup's user manager doesn't have form controls but instead has text like this: User Name [% form_username %] | 19:55 |
| @scrottie | [% FOREACH program IN user.alumni_programs_loop %][% program.name %] (^ConvertUTCToTZ('UTC','%b-%Y',[% program.startDate %]); | 19:55 |
| @scrottie | etc, etc. | 19:55 |
| @scrottie | it worked before I tried to upgrade. | 19:55 |
| @scrottie | I'm not excited about the prospect of trying to load the database again. that's an all day affair. granted I could have started it before I took off last night. | 19:56 |
| @scrottie | mducharme, btw, I noticed that behavior... spectre detaching *before* verfying everything was in order... and made a note to myself to fix that. | 19:57 |
| @scrottie | I have yet to touch part of this system that hasn't blown up on me. | 20:07 |
| @scrottie | on my first try. | 20:08 |
| @scrottie | perlDreamer, I'm interested in your thoughts on that before I blow this away and try again. | 20:09 |
| @preaction | perhaps the Template Toolkit template driver isn't enabled in your config file? | 20:10 |
| @preaction | templateParsers : [ ... ], should have 'TemplateToolkit' in it | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, are you talking about Spectre, or TT? | 20:10 |
| @scrottie | talking about two things at once. responding to mducharme's comments from earlier. also talking about my mucked up alumni install. | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | mucked up alumni install can come from many, many sources | 20:12 |
| @preaction | i'd almost say grab the config file from the alumni servers, editing dbuser, dbpass, and dsn appropriately | 20:13 |
| +perlDreamer | we are merged! | 20:13 |
| @scrottie | "WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit" is in templateParsers... close enough? | 20:13 |
| @scrottie | perlDreamer, nice. | 20:13 |
| @preaction | scrottie: yeah. guess i was wrong | 20:14 |
| @scrottie | successive approximation is often a good strategy. | 20:14 |
| @scrottie | slightly closer to correct is often very helpful. | 20:14 |
| @preaction | bump your etc/log.conf log level to INFO instead of ERROR or WARN and try again, it might have some more information | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, since I've been on, you haven't pasted anything close to whatever errors you're seeing either | 20:15 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r565cf95 / : Merge commit '469c2b72b4ee2eb3828f36123d7f731cf317a6d2' into WebGUI8. All tests passing. - http://bit.ly/aAq1DK | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | so successive approximation is the only tool you've left us | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, if you'd give WebGUI8 the once over with your usual rigor for the previous merges, I'd appreciate it | 20:16 |
| @scrottie | perlDreamer, I'm not seeing errors, I'm seeing unprocessed template tags in the HTML output. I did paste a few examples of it into here and I'd be happy to post a screenshot or whatever. | 20:16 |
| @scrottie | <scrottie> [% FOREACH program IN user.alumni_programs_loop %][% program.name %] (^ConvertUTCToTZ('UTC','%b-%Y',[% program.startDate %]); | 20:17 |
| @scrottie | I hope that's not "haven't pasted anything close" | 20:17 |
| @preaction | wait, the macro didn't get parsed either? | 20:17 |
| @preaction | that's weird | 20:17 |
| @scrottie | yuppers. | 20:17 |
| @preaction | yes, bump your log level up, there should be something in there | 20:17 |
| @preaction | at the very least, the macro will whine about not being able to do what it was supposed to do | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | also, check for the ConvertUTCToTZ macro in your config | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe the two are related | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | but who knows? | 20:18 |
| @preaction | do we have a "How to debug WebGUI" checklist somewhere? | 20:18 |
| @scrottie | "ConvertUTCToTZ" : "ConvertUTCToTZ", | 20:18 |
| @preaction | i mean, we've got the "Performance" one | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | in H::T, template stuff disappears when variables are undefined, or the template pukes | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, if we do have one, it would be on the webgui.org wiki | 20:19 |
| @preaction | right, but since H::T looks like HTML to browsers, things just go missing. TT isn't like HTML, so that happens | 20:19 |
| @scrottie | I haven't touched these templaters in ages. | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: can I use Definition to get rid of Class::InsideOut? | 20:23 |
| @preaction | why do we need Definition? will normal Moose not work? | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | well... :) | 20:24 |
| @preaction | Haarg was saying Definition may not be a good idea outside of Asset, but i'll let him elaborate | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | we need to build forms | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and it gives us the standard get/set/update/write interfaces | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and, it will give us practical experience with using Definition outside of Assets, so if it needs to evolve, we'll learn | 20:25 |
| @scrottie | I'd still like to see those methods moved up the inheritance tree rather than mixed in. | 20:25 |
| @scrottie | let things subclass a WebGUI::Settable or something. | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | mixing them in is the right way to do it | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | inheritance is so 2003 | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | :P | 20:26 |
| @scrottie | argh | 20:26 |
| @scrottie | so tautological | 20:26 |
| @preaction | i had planned a WebGUI::Model or something. and when we adopt DBIC (or other ORM) there will probably have to be a small layer inbetween WebGUI and the ORM (for session, or what-have-you) | 20:27 |
| @preaction | but we're not doing that now, we're getting ready for it | 20:27 |
| @preaction | and i thought we were moving away from get() update() write() stuff? or is that just the internal API and not the public one? | 20:27 |
| +perlDreamer | get/set, yes. It's too easy to pass update an hashref and know that it will DTRT | 20:28 |
| +perlDreamer | also, it gives 3rd party code a chance of working. | 20:28 |
| @scrottie | I had a rather nice and rather extended conversation about inheritance with doy at YAPC (well, at Varsity Club). Inheritance is not dead. People are merely distracted by shiny things. I'd like to think that KISS never gets old. | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | like getting all the object properties by calling ->get() | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, roles are easier | 20:29 |
| @scrottie | maintaining huge messes of code from people who had way too much fun writing it without regard for it being read *does* get old though. | 20:29 |
| @scrottie | sure they're easier. | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | it's like ordering pizza | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | you don't order a pizza->cheese->pepperoni->sausage | 20:29 |
| @preaction | right, but ->get() just wraps Moose's meta stuff. all Definition is just a wrapper around Moose meta stuff | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | you order a pizza->[cheese, pepperoni, sausage] | 20:30 |
| @scrottie | C++ has a lot of history there. a lot of smart people made a lot of things really easy and then made a lot of big balls of mud. then they sobered up and started asking good, hard questions about *why* that happened and wrote a lot of good books on OODA. | 20:30 |
| @scrottie | good tools do not keep you from creating big messes. | 20:30 |
| @preaction | well, take an easier example: Animal, Dog, Cat. Roles have their part in an environment, just as inheritance does | 20:30 |
| @scrottie | quite they opposite. they're narcotic. they let you do it without even noticing. | 20:30 |
| @preaction | Role is something you DO, inheritance is something you Are | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, you just repeated the most popular argument against Perl | 20:30 |
| @preaction | i am an animal, i do flying | 20:31 |
| @preaction | i am a bird | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not the tool, it's the wielder | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: you are a bat | 20:31 |
| @scrottie | if you have food->crusty stuff->crusty stuff with toppings, you have a hierarchy. | 20:31 |
| @preaction | i am an animal, i am a mammal, i do flying, i'm a bat ;) | 20:31 |
| @scrottie | if you have toppings that get mixed and matched, not so much. | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, I think we're really arguing the same thing here, from different sides | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | pure, in memory objects don't need get/set/update/write | 20:32 |
| @preaction | middle road people! middle road! | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | but persistent objects do | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and that's where it makes sense to add a role | 20:32 |
| @scrottie | in general, if something can be pushed down the inheritance tree, I personal would prefer to see that happen. | 20:32 |
| @scrottie | I'd also like to see people who are so excited about Moose to go read some C++ post-fallout OODA lit. | 20:33 |
| @preaction | down into derived classes? or up into parents? | 20:33 |
| @scrottie | up into the parents. towards the roots. | 20:33 |
| @preaction | k. two ways of looking at the tree ;) | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | but why clutter up the children with things that they wouldn't use? | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | look at Wobject.pm for example | 20:33 |
| @scrottie | and no, I'm not saying tools are bad; I'm saying smart people with good tools do create messes. | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | why does Article need to handle database collateral | 20:33 |
| @preaction | well, wobject was stupid. the collateral stuff is a role, but the Style stuff is inherited | 20:34 |
| @preaction | wobject is basically "this asset can control an entire page" | 20:34 |
| @scrottie | put smart people into any role and if they're divorced from good history, they make bad decisions. intelligence is not enough. | 20:34 |
| @scrottie | yeah, I can't comment on a lot of this design stuff. | 20:34 |
| @preaction | but again, we're doing both, and the touchstone is "AM vs. DO" | 20:34 |
| @scrottie | only make generalizations. | 20:34 |
| @preaction | I am a Wobject, I do Collateral | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | but Wobject also means, "description, style, and other things" | 20:35 |
| @scrottie | that's the result, sure. but the construction is another matter. | 20:35 |
| +perlDreamer | or, take Sku for an example | 20:35 |
| +perlDreamer | every sku has settings for shipping | 20:35 |
| +perlDreamer | even coupons! | 20:35 |
| @scrottie | I don't have a problem with the result. but anything resembling a mess of #includes is going to give me pause. | 20:35 |
| @scrottie | yuck. | 20:35 |
| @preaction | so wobject is an assembly of things we do, but if i'm a wobject i want to do all those things | 20:35 |
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| @preaction | i just don't like the idea of, yeah, 8 "with ROLE" in every single Asset I make | 20:36 |
| @preaction | because then we get "with MY::ROLE::BUNDLE" | 20:37 |
| @preaction | or, eventually, "extends MY::SUPERCLASS::WITH::MY::ROLE::BUNDLE" | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, when we do that, then you have to bust the bundles, or not use inheritcance, or write roles which overwrite roles | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | but, in any case, let me make the original question pointed | 20:38 |
| @preaction | you're thinking 100%, i'm thinking 90% | 20:38 |
| @preaction | there's always a way to get that last 10% | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | it's been historic WebGUI style to have ->get return all props, and ->update set all props and write to the db | 20:38 |
| @preaction | but if we make 90% as easy as one line, we're good | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | it's everywhere through the packages | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | Definition provides that | 20:38 |
| @scrottie | I am so god damn tempted right now to make this thing work under Continuity so I can debug and inspect it as it runs a web hit so I can try to figure out interactively why stuff isn't being templated rather than trying to go back to first principles and deduce why it isn't working. | 20:39 |
| @preaction | well, before that it was individual accessors, then ->get and ->update, now individual accessors AND ->get and ->update | 20:39 |
| @scrottie | I guess that's the gist of it. I'm cranky right now because 2010 is way too late to be trying to ever deduce from first principles why anything in code isn't working, ever. | 20:39 |
| @preaction | really wishing Haarg would chime in on why he was saying Definition shouldn't be used for anything other than Asset | 20:39 |
| @preaction | because i don't remember | 20:39 |
| +perlDreamer | was it in channel? | 20:39 |
| @preaction | no, at YAPC | 20:40 |
| * perlDreamer sighs | 20:40 | |
| @scrottie | hell, I almost ditched work and went to a programmable logic class. even in Verilog you don't try to deduce from reading through stuff why stuff doesn't work. you interactively debug. | 20:40 |
| @preaction | scrottie: there's a way to get the debugger working inside mod_perl / apache, and it's not too awful. | 20:40 |
| @preaction | i've had to use it a couple times | 20:40 |
| @scrottie | I've certainly run mod_perl under gdb. that's awful. | 20:41 |
| @preaction | but did upping the log level and trying again show any fun info or warn-level messages? | 20:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we distracted him with a good debate | 20:41 |
| @scrottie | yeah. bad data going into the macro. | 20:41 |
| @scrottie | but nothing about why TT isn't working. | 20:41 |
| @scrottie | no, I distracted myself. but then I realized that on a meta level I had a solid argument. | 20:42 |
| @scrottie | and I'm still tempted to get this all going under Continuity. | 20:42 |
| @preaction | figures. we do some fucked-up capturing of real errors and never end up displaying the message | 20:42 |
| @scrottie | bad. | 20:42 |
| @preaction | is the template set to use Template Toolkit? | 20:42 |
| @scrottie | hell if I know. | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | edit it, and look at the Template Parser setting | 20:42 |
| @scrottie | it worked before I tried to upgrade. | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | or, check the db | 20:42 |
| @preaction | if you edit the asset, you should be able to get at its templates (in the Display tab). there's an Edit button next to it | 20:43 |
| @scrottie | alright. | 20:43 |
| @preaction | sorry to mention something maybe obvious, but Template is installed right? i'd think it'd be more vocal about that, but i've been wrong before | 20:44 |
| @preaction | there's a reason why 8 has "Normalize error messages" in its task list. debugging is a bitch. we don't yell about real problems, and scream about things that we have no control over (user input, for example) | 20:45 |
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| kayiwa | I recently inherited a WebGUI 7.5.40 and I've had three failed attempts. My understanding is the "stop point" is 7.6.10 then 7.6.35 | 20:47 |
| kayiwa | I attempted manual to 7.6.10 unsuccessfully | 20:47 |
| kayiwa | with this as the constant error | 20:47 |
| kayiwa | Deleting AdminBar templates... Can't call method "setScratch" on an undefined value at ../lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm line 256. | 20:47 |
| kayiwa | Processing upgrade executable failed! | 20:47 |
| @preaction | you can go from 7.5.40 directly to 7.6.34 | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | kayiwa, that's a bad asset in the database | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | mmmm... | 20:48 |
| @preaction | no, that's a bad workflowId | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 20:48 |
| kayiwa | so kill the workflow and attempt this? | 20:48 |
| @preaction | no, remove from settings table where name="purgeWorkflow" and try again | 20:49 |
| @preaction | but seriously, you can go to 7.6.34 right away | 20:49 |
| +perlDreamer | DELETE from settings where name="purgeWorkflow" | 20:49 |
| kayiwa | okay | 20:50 |
| @preaction | pfft, that was left as an exercise for the reader, to make them understand to NEVER execute a SQL snippet from an IRC channel without understanding what it does ;) | 20:50 |
| * perlDreamer pokes Haarg again in the hope he'll talk about Definition | 20:52 | |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, should AssetTrash log an error if that happens again? | 20:53 |
| @preaction | yes, it should log an error and not explode | 20:54 |
| @preaction | looks like it currently will still explode | 20:54 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdb96547 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt docs/gotcha.txt): Add missing docs about needing Net::Twitter. - http://bit.ly/c2bAiY | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, isn't kayiwa going to need that workflow later? | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | well, I guess it's been deleted, so it won't matter at this point | 21:04 |
| @preaction | it doesn't exist, yeah | 21:04 |
| @preaction | it's gone, no coming back | 21:04 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r61008c8 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm): Check that the Purge workflow exists before trying to run it. Fixes bug #11698 - http://bit.ly/9CwI7A | 21:09 |
| @preaction | you know, a lot of this definition stuff in Asset is completely untested | 21:09 |
| @preaction | allowEmpty? | 21:09 |
| @preaction | displayOnly? | 21:10 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rbe8a502 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm): Check that the Purge workflow exists before trying to run it. Fixes bug #11698 - http://bit.ly/90Heua | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | fixed | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, not only is it untested, but it won't even be used in 8 | 21:10 |
| @preaction | which means i'll make the test its own commit, because it won't merge | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | ugh | 21:12 |
| @preaction | well, it'll merge, but it won't pass | 21:12 |
| @preaction | also, i'll merge 7.9 into 8 after i push, because i need what i just did in 8 (so you won't have to deal with it! | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | this is how I do that | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | merge | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | then fix all *.pm files | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | run t/00_compile.t to check everything | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | then fix any tests | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | after that, you have to fix the upgrade stuff | 21:14 |
| @preaction | i'll have to do it tomorrow morning, gotta drive to oshkosh to maybe meet someone about the apt. | 21:15 |
| +perlDreamer | got a renter? | 21:16 |
| @preaction | not yet, trying to | 21:16 |
| @preaction | it's fun, because people seem interested, then they don't return my callbacks or e-mails | 21:16 |
| @preaction | makes me want to hire a management agency, but that'd destroy my already slim margins | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | they'd just up your rates, anyway | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: is this what you were thinking of for the demise of Session->Env: http://gist.github.com/460338 ? | 21:20 |
| @preaction | gallery no longer able to be instanciated? | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | http://gist.github.com/460340 | 21:22 |
| @preaction | why not request->getIp? getIp doesn't just do REMOTE_ADDR | 21:22 |
| @preaction | it also does X_FORWARDED_FOR | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | it does? | 21:22 |
| Haarg | not any more | 21:22 |
| @preaction | ah | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg! | 21:22 |
| @preaction | then yes | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | brb, I have to watch Tim do a 180 | 21:23 |
| Haarg | $session->request->address | 21:23 |
| @scrottie | [Thu Jul 01 09:10:34 2010] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] File does not exist: /data/domains/alumni.state.gov/public/extras/wobject/Alumni, referer: http://alumni.state.gov:8000/manageusers ... I rsync'd extras from the source tarball. where would alumni specific extras come from? | 21:23 |
| @preaction | symlinks from the dosalumni repository i think | 21:24 |
| @scrottie | ah, duh. | 21:24 |
| Haarg | preaction, x-forwarded-for is currently unhandled because it is dependent on your server setup how it should be done. Plack::Middleware::ReverseProxy is what we'll want to use for that though. | 21:25 |
| @preaction | ahh | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | If Session->open isn't passed an PSGI env hash, should it make one? | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | where should the burden of doing that rest? | 21:33 |
| @preaction | i'd think to open an existing session you'd need to know at least which session you were opening. is that handled by the env hash or is the id passed before that? | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | for this particular case, it's during upgrades | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | so it's a brand new session | 21:36 |
| @preaction | so it'd be Session->new right? and new could do the hash if no hash existed | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | there is no session->new | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | only open | 21:36 |
| @preaction | no create? | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | strike two! | 21:37 |
| @preaction | then the answer depends on haarg's progress with WebGUI::Site, but probably means "yes, autocreate for now" | 21:37 |
| * preaction goes to Oshkosh | 21:37 | |
| +perlDreamer | good drive, dude | 21:38 |
| Haarg | in the past, we just did without a request object if we weren't given one. | 21:40 |
| Haarg | what upgrade thing are you dealing with specifically? | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | globally, in 8 I did s/->env->getIp/->request->address/; | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | this included a line in Session/Var.pm | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | sub start: lastIP => $session->request->address, | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | start is called by Session->open | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | so now every Session needs to have a valid request | 21:42 |
| Haarg | for now i guess just make a fake one. alternatively change that one case to $session->request && $session->request->address | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | I made a fake one, like WebGUI::Test does | 21:44 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, any comments on using Definition for non-assets? | 21:44 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction mentioned that, during YAPC, it might not be best | 21:44 |
| Haarg | it was designed with that in mind | 21:45 |
| Haarg | but it may be over complicating things | 21:45 |
| kayiwa | FWIW I get the same result after deleting purgeWorkflow | 21:45 |
| Haarg | where did you have in mind? | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | Shop/Vendor | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | and any other class that uses Class::InsideOut and has get/set/update methods | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | I did Shop/Pay.pm and Shop/Ship.pm in pure Moose because they're only basically objects in that they have 1 method and session | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | but these other ones have real accessors and mutators | 21:47 |
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| Haarg | instead of using definition, i think using just moose would be better | 21:48 |
| Haarg | for that case at least | 21:49 |
| Haarg | we may want to separate out the ->set/->get/->update stuff to make it a role that could be used outside of definition | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | with get_all_settable_list that won't be easy | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | we could just stick a simple one in WebGUI::Role::Object | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | actually, to be explicitly clear and to distinguish it from WebGUI::Definition::Role::Object, it should be WebGUI::Role::WebGUIObject | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | time to make lunch for kiddos | 22:06 |
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| * perlDreamer is back | 23:01 | |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r005b9da / (20 files in 10 dirs): Move session->env->getIp into session->request->address - http://bit.ly/dhb7zA | 23:12 |
| Haarg | preaction, have you seen github's new organizations thing? | 23:13 |
| Haarg | looks perfect for plainblack | 23:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, he drove to oshkosh | 23:18 |
| Haarg | oh yeah | 23:19 |
| * Haarg dum | 23:19 | |
| +perlDreamer | nah, you just need to eat some lunch/dinner | 23:19 |
| Haarg | in progress | 23:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | you know, I'm no longer convinced that Americans are the most culturally insensive nation in the world | 23:20 |
| +perlDreamer | expecting everyone, everywhere to speak English | 23:20 |
| +perlDreamer | that all changed when I started getting SPAM in UTF-8 | 23:21 |
| +perlmonkey2 | If you think Americans are culturally insensitive, you should meet a Texan. | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | at least they speak english :) | 23:24 |
| Haarg | i get a lot of russian spam | 23:25 |
| Haarg | at one point i was wondering what it was all about, so i translated one of them | 23:25 |
| Haarg | they were trying to sell their spam sending service | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | lol | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought you were going to say it was a Nigerian bank account scam | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | Found in URL.pm: $self->session->url->page :/ | 23:27 |
| +perlDreamer | to be exact, WebGUI::Session::Url | 23:27 |
| Haarg | yeah | 23:32 |
| Haarg | i've seen that in a few other places as well | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | sometimes I wonder why you guys keep me around | 23:32 |
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| * perlDreamer takes kiddos for a bike ride while prove bubbles | 23:44 | |
| +perlDreamer | when the whole family comes to madcity, I think we may need to bring bikes! | 23:44 |
| Haarg | you should | 23:45 |
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| +perlDreamer | I've been trying to get the kids on bikes for years | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | and they finally got it about two weeks ago | 00:09 |
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| +perlDreamer | turns out that killing Session::Env is more fun than pulling weeds | 01:29 |
| +perlDreamer | prepare a Eulogy for Session::Env | 02:11 |
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| @scrottie | Session::Env, I hardly knew ye. | 03:21 |
| @scrottie | bah. all of the things this upgrade were supposed to fix in alumni are still broken. | 03:21 |
| @scrottie | was supposed | 03:22 |
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| @scrottie | sshfs isn't going to cut it. I have to download all of these uploads folder items. | 03:35 |
| @scrottie | hrmrmrmmm. | 03:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Session::Env is dead | 03:41 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re0177dc / (27 files in 14 dirs): Remove Session::Env, migrate code to Plack::Request object in Session, and WebGUI::Session::Request - http://bit.ly/cUb5zm | 03:41 |
| * perlDreamer goes out to get a new battery for the laptop | 03:41 | |
| @scrottie | again? | 05:05 |
| +perlDreamer | had to order it | 05:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | and it arrived today | 05:35 |
| +perlDreamer | we went by bicycle and light rail to go get it | 05:36 |
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| SDuensin | FRIDAY! | 16:22 |
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| knowmad | morning all | 17:32 |
| @preaction | morning | 17:32 |
| knowmad | i'm hoping for some advice on upgrading from 7.7 to 7.8 and having macros go missing | 17:32 |
| knowmad | i don't see anything in gotchas and no errors in logs; macros are just being output to the page | 17:34 |
| knowmad | we did make sure that they're plugged in -- they are defined in conf file | 17:34 |
| knowmad | nm, we found it -- custom path for preload.custom that didn't get copied over to the new directory | 17:35 |
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| +perlDreamer | so, after trying to write WebGUI::Role::WebGUIObject, I see what you mean about Definition being overkill for simple objects, Haarg | 22:03 |
| +perlDreamer | time for lunch, and to crash the battery | 22:17 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc159067 / (docs/migration.txt lib/WebGUI/Shop/Vendor.pm t/Shop/Vendor.t): Remove Class::InsideOut from Shop/Vendor.t Update migration notes, tests and POD. - http://bit.ly/9VE4E3 | 01:18 |
| +perlDreamer | patspam, preaction, Haarg: please have a look at c159067 and let me know if that's an acceptable compromise for the change from Class::InsideOut, to WebGUI::Definition | 01:18 |
| +perlDreamer | it's compatible with what was there before, with the difference of having to manually serialize the newly created object to the db. | 01:19 |
| +perlDreamer | if y'all are okay with that, I'll start migrating the 19 other classes to it | 01:24 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc687ec6 / lib/WebGUI/Keyword.pm : Convert WebGUI::Keyword to use Moose. - http://bit.ly/aIQV0T | 02:26 |
| Haarg | perlDreamer, moose things should probably all have weak_ref on session | 02:28 |
| +perlDreamer | why, Haarg? | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | we aren't likely to make a loop of Shop/Ship.pm to Session and back | 02:29 |
| Haarg | i was mainly thinking for consistency | 02:30 |
| +perlDreamer | but if we weaken it unnecessarily, won't it get cleaned up too early? | 02:30 |
| Haarg | only if the main reference to it would go away | 02:31 |
| Haarg | which it won't in any normal situation | 02:32 |
| Haarg | might want to ask preaction what he thinks | 02:34 |
| Haarg | i know i've talked to him about this stuff before, but i don't remember what our full conclusion was | 02:35 |
| +perlDreamer | y'all need to carry tape recorders | 02:37 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r97b6a58 / lib/WebGUI/Friends.pm : Move WebGUI::Friends over to Moose from Class::InsideOut - http://bit.ly/cd2wGo | 02:39 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3807197 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Admin.pm : Move WebGUI::Shop::Admin from Class::InsideOut over to Moose. - http://bit.ly/csfjUA | 02:44 |
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| scrottie | what makes the default install do that lovely thing where it shows the queries it runs in-line in the page? | 03:56 |
| scrottie | I'd go peek at the template but I don't want to shut this thing down and fire that up again. | 03:56 |
| scrottie | incidentally, this takes for ever to do anything. it's maddening. | 03:57 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, that's debug mode | 04:02 |
| +perlDreamer | It's in the settings | 04:02 |
| +perlDreamer | Admin Console -> Settings -> Miscellaneous | 04:02 |
| +perlDreamer | or, via wgd ... | 04:02 |
| scrottie | hrm. | 04:02 |
| +perlDreamer | wgd setting debugMode=1 (I think) | 04:02 |
| scrottie | I set that and changed log level to DEBUG in log.conf but output goes to the log file, not the browser. | 04:03 |
| scrottie | alright, let's see... | 04:03 |
| +perlDreamer | do you have debug restricted to any IP address? | 04:03 |
| +perlDreamer | also, for certain kinds of output, it will omit debugMode | 04:04 |
| +perlDreamer | since that would break things like RSS and JSON | 04:04 |
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| scrottie | yeah. I also went digging around in ErrorHandler.pm trying to figure it out and saw that. | 04:05 |
| +perlDreamer | holler if you have more questions, I'll be in and out most of the night so I can pot-shoot problems as you raise them | 04:05 |
| scrottie | still no go. bleah. | 04:07 |
| scrottie | thanks though. | 04:07 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie, I hate to ask this, but it trips everybody up | 04:14 |
| +perlDreamer | browser side caching? | 04:14 |
| scrottie | cache is off. | 04:14 |
| +perlDreamer | on your side? | 04:15 |
| scrottie | yup. I'm running entirely without a cache. it's just plain off. | 04:33 |
| scrottie | in the browser. | 04:33 |
| scrottie | it kills me but I think I have to move dev over to the fast machines. the laptop is just too small and slow. | 04:33 |
| * scrottie sighs | 04:34 | |
| scrottie | looks like 127.0.0.1 doesn't match for some reason. hardcoded a 'return 1;' into canShowBasedOnIP(). *that* made it go. | 04:39 |
| scrottie | alright. thanks again, and have a good evening. I better stop. | 04:41 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbf7c7aa / t/Asset/Wobject/InOutBoard.t : Make the view test more robust. It has been failing randomly. - http://bit.ly/a9d4cf | 19:41 |
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| @scrottie | http://nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/161493 fwiw | 02:35 |
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| @preaction | sweet. i could totally make a script that syncs a webgui wiki with a git repo (webgui's assets have workflows, the workflow could sync to the git repo, then a periodic sync from the repo) | 03:10 |
| @preaction | Haarg: is your WGD asset format in a module I can consume somehow? | 03:10 |
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| Haarg | preaction, it's in WGDev::Asset. a rough combination of yaml and other formatting. nothing more general than that. | 15:20 |
| Haarg | i had intended to set up that automatic dump of the default webgui content to a git repo but never got it quite worked out | 15:21 |
| Haarg | wgd has a export-branch command though which could be used to dump out an entire wiki to files | 15:22 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r90f0a9b / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix date field type detection during import. Fixes bug #11692. - http://bit.ly/bdBDY3 | 19:03 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rf3abbf3 / t/Asset/Wobject/InOutBoard.t : Make the view test more robust. It has been failing randomly. - http://bit.ly/a2P2yM | 19:03 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rdd25201 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix date field type detection during import. Fixes bug #11692. - http://bit.ly/cOO4JP | 19:04 |
| +perlDreamer | it's very quiet this morning | 19:04 |
| +perlDreamer | is everybody on holiday? | 19:04 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r40e6d70 / t/Mail/Send.t : Add a test for UTF-8 handling in the subject. - http://bit.ly/cvDSg0 | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | morning, scrottie | 20:27 |
| @scrottie | heya perlDreamer. | 20:29 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * raed2c13 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix double body encoding when sending emails. Added tests. Fixes bug #11672. - http://bit.ly/dpAyfV | 21:57 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rc9ed278 / t/Mail/Send.t : Add a test for UTF-8 handling in the subject. - http://bit.ly/bMQlfL | 21:58 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r8fd1d83 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix double body encoding when sending emails. Added tests. Fixes bug #11672. - http://bit.ly/biujXG | 21:58 |
| +perlDreamer | patspam, and all you other foreign language speakers... | 21:59 |
| +perlDreamer | you may want to merge that bugfix back to better handle UTF-8 in emails | 21:59 |
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| +perlDreamer | well, it seems that I've been wrong all this time | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | there are two CMSes built with Catalyst | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | there's Web site in a box: http://code.google.com/p/websiteinabox/source/list | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | not touched on Google code since 2008 | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | and EasyCMS2, http://easycms2.palle.net/ | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | which doesn't seem to be touched since 2007 | 23:34 |
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| --- Day changed Tue Jul 06 2010 | ||
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| @scrottie | this rsync is still going and one rsync is enough to make DSL suck. | 01:06 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, I could use some utf8 help with this sometime: http://gist.github.com/464754 | 01:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | nm, I didn't tell Perl to consider those as UTF-8, and they were borked as they were written out to the DB. | 02:15 |
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| @preaction | so we can be the third CMS that uses catalyst! yay! | 09:26 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 16:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | GREASINGS!!! | 16:30 |
| SDuensin | Hey man. | 16:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | howdy!] | 16:31 |
| SDuensin | How's things in your corner of the world? | 16:31 |
| +MrHairgrease | pretty good | 16:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | and in yours? | 16:32 |
| SDuensin | Off to a day of suck so far. :-( | 16:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | That won't be too bad | 16:33 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you like suck | 16:33 |
| SDuensin | Mostly just me. Kind of in a foul mood. | 16:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | that's okay | 16:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you like foul =) | 16:39 |
| SDuensin | I had a disk scan running for almost three days... Until MS rebooted me for an update. | 16:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | this just seems kind of flawed to me: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=194775&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1441534&highlight= | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Chipotle, the restaurant chain, says they'll send $10K to a charity organization for every 100K email messages they get | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | seems like the geeks of the world could bankrupt them pretty easily :) | 19:33 |
| * perlDreamer heads home from the coffee shop. Back in 20. | 19:41 | |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: http://search.cpan.org/~samv/MooseX-Timestamp-0.06/lib/MooseX/TimestampTZ.pm | 20:01 |
| +perlDreamer | Moose timestamp type, in our favorite MySQL format, with full timezone support | 20:01 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1abe035 / (lib/WebGUI/Session/Url.pm t/Session/Url.t): Refactor test to move makeCompliant tests out of urlize. Tweak makeCompliant for speed and clarity. - http://bit.ly/cmDAJF | 20:24 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r655efc4 / t/Asset/Post/notification.t : Add tests for double encoding of UTF8 content in Posts and email notificaitons. - http://bit.ly/aJEhTn | 20:24 |
| @scrottie | mornin. | 20:25 |
| +perlDreamer | yo, scrottie! | 20:25 |
| +perlDreamer | how's the alumni stuff? | 20:25 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r39738a4 / t/Asset/Post/notification.t : Add tests for double encoding of UTF8 content in Posts and email notificaitons. - http://bit.ly/9yNXL2 | 20:25 |
| @scrottie | the photo approval screen makes no sense to me whatsoever. | 20:26 |
| @scrottie | all of this was way too slow on the Linux laptop. I got everything going on the big machine just yesterday. stuff is still rsycning down. FUSE didn't allow for write. | 20:27 |
| @scrottie | I'm looking at API for programmatically resizing all of the thumbnails. shouldn't be too bad. | 20:27 |
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| @scrottie | don't know what the procedure is for exporting templates and importing them elsewhere. I saw something about exporting assets. that might be it. | 20:28 |
| +patspam | scrottie: wgd package | 20:29 |
| @scrottie | ahh. | 20:29 |
| @scrottie | about half of the time, the answer is wgd. | 20:29 |
| @scrottie | mornin' patspam. | 20:29 |
| +patspam | heya :) | 20:29 |
| @preaction | wgd is the faster way to do just about everything | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | <3 wgd | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | someone needs to make a T-shirt for that | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, in general, to move any asset from one site to another, you use packages. | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | Edit the asset, in the Metadata tab, set "Make package" to yes. | 20:34 |
| @scrottie | cool. | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | then, in the Asset Manager, you can export it as a .wgpkg file (.tar.gz aliased) | 20:34 |
| @scrottie | then a package pops out? | 20:34 |
| @scrottie | awesome. | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | next, in the other site, import the package file in the Asset Manager. | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | It will be instanced where the Asset Manager is pointing, so choose carefully | 20:34 |
| @scrottie | ieeee!! | 20:37 |
| @scrottie | is the basic operation there a replace or add-child? | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | depends | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | if the asset already exists, it is replace current | 20:37 |
| @preaction | i thought it was addRevision | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | I think.. if the asset doesn't exist (by checking assetId), it does addChild | 20:39 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise, it does addRev | 20:39 |
| @scrottie | replaced if the assetId matches? | 20:39 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, although there are also issues with the revisionDate | 20:39 |
| @scrottie | replaced/addRev'd if the assetId already exists? | 20:39 |
| +perlDreamer | if the asset exists on the site, and there is a newer revision than what the package contains, you'll never see the imported revision | 20:39 |
| +perlDreamer | technically, what you're importing as a package isn't an asset, it is a revision of an asset | 20:40 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r4366871 / t/Asset/Post/notification.t : UTF-8 urls are not allowed in WebGUI 7.8. - http://bit.ly/9kw9IJ | 21:03 |
| @preaction | well, an asset doesn't really exist w/o a revision | 21:03 |
| @preaction | addChild == INSERT INTO asset (...), addRevision | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | exactly, but it's possible to import a package, and not see the content show up due to revision control | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | that was the source of all the 7.8 upgrade issues | 21:04 |
| @preaction | right, that's one of a few pitfalls of packages that i hope to address someday | 21:04 |
| @preaction | Haarg: are there any docs on the new upgrade system? I'm about to ask you a question i swear i've asked twice before: how does it handle stop versions? | 21:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I added a switch to importPackage for upgrades to handle that issue | 21:06 |
| +perlDreamer | (not stop versions, but revision issues on packages) | 21:06 |
| @preaction | am i wrong, or should an OS reload take about 20 minutes? how long does it take to install CentOS 5? | 21:26 |
| @preaction | it's been 3 hours. | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | have to format the partitions? | 21:26 |
| @preaction | a quick format takes like 30 seconds | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | is this a real box, or a VM? | 21:27 |
| @preaction | a real box | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | all packages locally available, or a internet based install? | 21:27 |
| @preaction | it is a default CentOS 5 DVD afaik | 21:28 |
| +perlDreamer | Red Hat-like installs can suffer from dependency hell with conflict resolution on some boxes | 21:28 |
| +perlDreamer | are you sure it's actually doing anything, or just spinning? | 21:28 |
| @preaction | but remind me next time, we'll start moving systems to EC2 as they die. it would take less than half the time... | 21:28 |
| @preaction | i don't know, i ask them, they install the OS | 21:28 |
| * perlDreamer is not impressed by the EC2 boxen that I've seen | 21:28 | |
| @preaction | yeah, they did it wrong. we have one, and we did it right | 21:29 |
| SquOnk | Greetings. | 21:43 |
| SquOnk | Is there are reason for the userSession table to grow unbounded? | 21:44 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, what do you mean by that? | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | lots and lots of sessions? | 21:45 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Yes. Old sessions not being removed ever. | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | What's the session timeout set to in settings? | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | and is the ExpireOldSessions workflow running? | 21:46 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Let me check | 21:48 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Session timeout is set at 5 minutes. | 21:50 |
| +perlDreamer | which version of WebGUI is it running? | 21:50 |
| SquOnk | 7.8.18 | 21:50 |
| SquOnk | I have Delete Expired Sessions in Hourly Maintenance, is that it? | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, make sure the cron job for that still exists | 21:52 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: It's there | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | well, the most likely problem is that some activity is causing a problem so that the Delete Expired Sessions is never run | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | so webgui log file check next | 21:53 |
| SquOnk | But looking at the code for DeleteExpiredSessions... | 21:53 |
| SquOnk | ...there's no "DELETE FROM userSession" at all | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | no, that would be bad | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | $session->close | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | "Use the API, SquOnk" | 21:54 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Right. | 21:55 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Use the API for the other confusing deletes there, then. | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | You can't | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | it only does the direct SQL when there's breakage | 21:55 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: All right, so the probable cause is a previous activity not succeeding... I'll check into that. | 21:56 |
| +perlDreamer | you can also try running t/Workflow/Activity/DeleteExpiredSessions.t | 21:56 |
| +perlDreamer | and make sure it passes | 21:56 |
| * perlDreamer takes a lunch break | 22:22 | |
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| Haarg | preaction, new upgrade system doesn't have anything for stop versions right now | 23:02 |
| @preaction | ok | 23:03 |
| SquOnk | Haarg: 3-1 looks enough | 23:12 |
| Haarg | ? | 23:14 |
| SquOnk | Haarg: Netherlands over Uruguay, WC semi-finals | 23:14 |
| SquOnk | Haarg: But now I realize I wrote to the wrong window anyway... | 23:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | I could become a Netherlands soccer fan for a little while | 23:38 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Meh... it was over for me when Germany crushed Argentina :9 | 23:39 |
| SquOnk | ...worst defeat in WC since Netherlands beat us 4-0 in 1974 | 23:39 |
| +perlDreamer | oy, much testing badness | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | the tests don't work correctly on the WRE | 23:41 |
| --- Day changed Wed Jul 07 2010 | ||
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| SquOnk | What does it mean for a workflow to be 'waiting 1'? | 00:22 |
| SquOnk | Shows as 'running' but never ends... | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | that's usually a signal that it was running | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | then ran out of time, so it releases for a second | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | then picks up again | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | if you have a huge backlog of sessions to delete, it could run for a very, very long time | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | try monitoring the number of sessions in userSession, and make sure they keep going down | 00:23 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: I see. So it's normal behaviour. | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | perhaps, yes | 00:23 |
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| mducharme-laptop | any idea on when there will be a 64-bit WRE? | 00:29 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: When you say 'picks up' you mean _restarts_ or _continues from the point where it was suspended_? | 00:30 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, good question | 00:30 |
| SquOnk | lol | 00:30 |
| +perlDreamer | mducharme-laptop, no 64-bit WRE has been released | 00:30 |
| +perlDreamer | but there are patches and contributions that show how to make one, onesself | 00:31 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, it reinvokes the same query again | 00:31 |
| +perlDreamer | which means it starts scanning from the top of the list | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | but there's no explicit order given | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | It would probably be more efficient if it did something like... | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | select sessionId, lastPageView from userSession where expires<? order by expires DESC | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | so that it starts from the "END" and works its way back to more recent sessions | 00:33 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk: is the number of sessions decreasing over time? | 00:33 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Sloooowly. This site has a LOT of users coming in and out for very brief periods of time... | 00:34 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: ...with changing IP addresses. | 00:34 |
| +perlDreamer | are they logging in? | 00:34 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Yes. | 00:35 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: They have to. It's an internet banking application. | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | and that's the reason for the strict 10 minute timeout | 00:36 |
| +perlDreamer | uh, 5 minute session timeout | 00:36 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Exactly | 00:36 |
| +perlDreamer | how many sessions are in the table? | 00:37 |
| SquOnk | perlbot: 46900 | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | well, if you delete them directly with SQL, it will leave thousands of orphaned records in other tables which would all have to be cleaned up by hand | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | so I don't recommend that you do that | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | Spectre and WebGUI are trying to do the best they can to keep up with your influx and the strict timeout | 00:38 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: We did a truncate of the table on saturday :/ | 00:40 |
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| SquOnk | perlDreamer: We had like 350k rows then | 00:40 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Where should we look for cruft? | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | userSessionScratch | 00:41 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: We truncated that too. | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | by row, or by matchind sessionIds? | 00:41 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: truncate as in truncate everything :-) | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | that would certainly do it :) | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | places to look for cruft | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | 1) The query for selecting sessionIds | 00:43 |
| +perlDreamer | like I suggested, it may be faster to sort them in reverse order and deal with them from the end each time | 00:43 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: How can we run the workflow "one shot" without it being interrupted and restarted? | 00:43 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think it's the restarting that's killing you | 00:44 |
| +perlDreamer | since it will run for 55 seconds before hitting the timeout | 00:44 |
| +perlDreamer | and then sleep for 1 second | 00:44 |
| +perlDreamer | and then keep running until the activity returns done | 00:44 |
| +perlDreamer | how many sessions is it closing, per second, on average? | 00:45 |
| mducharme-laptop | perlDreamer I know there are patches.. but it would be nice to have a compiled option | 00:48 |
| mducharme-laptop | me and my colleagues at other shops are only deploying 64-bit servers these days | 00:48 |
| mducharme-laptop | 32-bit is so 20th century :) | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | ha! | 00:49 |
| mducharme-laptop | even if the compiled option is only for one platform, like centos, at least that's something | 00:49 |
| mducharme-laptop | I'm running 32-bit wre on 64-bit centos 5.5 for now | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | won't the 32-bit code run on the 64-bit servers? | 00:50 |
| mducharme-laptop | yup but there is a performance hit | 00:50 |
| Haarg | in what way? | 00:51 |
| mducharme-laptop | at least the servers we have, they process 32-bit code more slowly than the matching 64-bit | 00:51 |
| Haarg | odd | 00:51 |
| mducharme-laptop | there has been noticable improvement going from 32-bit apache and tomcat etc to 64-bit on servers.. I do not know how webgui would be impacted but I imagine similarly | 00:52 |
| mducharme-laptop | so, I think you should have more of an effort for official supported 64-bit | 00:54 |
| mducharme-laptop | that is easy to install and does not require patches | 00:54 |
| Haarg | what kind of servers are they? | 00:54 |
| mducharme-laptop | I have a bunch of IBM servers and sun servers | 00:54 |
| mducharme-laptop | I can really notice the performance difference going up to 64-bit | 00:55 |
| mducharme-laptop | I think that perhaps the servers are just so tweaked for running 64-bit code | 00:55 |
| mducharme-laptop | that they do the 32-bit stuff more slowly | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, I see several places where repeated, chained method calls could be stripped out by using dedicated variables | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | but I wouldn't want to make those kind of changes without some real performance data for comparisons | 00:57 |
| mducharme-laptop | I'm sure if you did some surveys you would find out that the majority of your users are mostly setting up 64-bit servers.. | 00:58 |
| mducharme-laptop | for new installs | 00:58 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: We've just cleaned up userSession and userSessionScratch by hand to about 300 sessions... | 00:59 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: ...and we'll see if the workflow can keep up | 01:00 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: We'll probably have to run it more often. | 01:00 |
| Haarg | preaction, perlDreamer, any opposition to merging my upgrades stuff? | 01:01 |
| +perlDreamer | given how spectre works, that won't matter | 01:01 |
| @preaction | nope | 01:01 |
| @preaction | go head | 01:01 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, if you try to run it more often, and it's falling behind, it won't spawn more processes | 01:01 |
| mducharme-laptop | in fact, I would amost go so far to say that there is probably not much need anymore for a continued 32-bit version of the WRE.. | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk: it will keep running until there are no more sessions to clean up | 01:02 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: True. But if running it more frequently than hourly keeps the amount of work short, it has a better chance to keep up with the new sessions, don't you think? | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | because, once invoked, it will keep running until they are all cleaned up | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | running it more frequently is like the child in the back seat saying, "Are we there yet?" | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | "Are we there yet?" | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | "Are we there yet?" | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | no effect on throughput | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | the factors affecting throughput are: | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | Number of sessions created per second | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | Number of sessions to clean up (set by session timeout - 5 minutes) | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | speed of session cleanup (set by activity code) | 01:04 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: The activity code is based on iterating over the query result. | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | speed of data being sorted by mysql | 01:05 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: If the query result is kept smaller it has a better chance of finishing than trying to iterate over an ever increasing data set. | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, exactly | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | but attempting to reinvoke an activity that isn't done running yet won't help :) | 01:06 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: I understand that. My point is that running the cleanup more often than _hourly_ has a better chance of keeping the data set smaller. | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, no, it does not | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | every hour, spectre will attempt to rerun the workflow | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | if it's still running from the previous hour, it won't do anythine extra | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | and that's the scenario that you just described | 01:07 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: So it's better to wait an hour for, say 1000 sessions to clean, than to run every 6 minutes hoping to clean 100 each run? | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, it's all rate dependent, yes? | 01:07 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: The overhead to handle 1000 rows is noticeable more than 100 rows. | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm saying, let's not conjecture | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | Let's measure instead | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | and discuss data, instead of arguing opinions | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | what you're proposing would be a good experiment | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | but my instincts are telling me that it won't make any difference, if spectre's rate of cleaning things up is way slower than the rate of session creation | 01:10 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: The workflow uses $sth->array... | 01:10 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: ...that has to pull the entire result set into a Perl array, not lazily and memory hungry. | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | that pulls one row into an array | 01:10 |
| mducharme-laptop | this is all to work around that bug that hasn't been found where the sessions dont get cleaned up? | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | $sth is an iterator | 01:10 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Sorry, my bad | 01:10 |
| SquOnk | :-( | 01:10 |
| * mducharme-laptop sets up a liferay portal | 01:11 | |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, I could be wrong about that | 01:14 |
| * perlDreamer is madly readying DBI pod | 01:14 | |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: DBD::mysql works with mysql_store_result by default which is memory hungry because it reads the _full_ query result. | 01:16 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: So, sth is an iterator over a big chunk of memory that has the whole dataset. | 01:16 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, in that case, it's worth our time to limit the number of rows returned to a number that we know that WebGUI can handle in 55 seconds | 01:16 |
| SquOnk | Is there a way to cancel a workflow? | 01:18 |
| +perlDreamer | if you edit it, WebGUI will tell spectre to stop it, and reschedule it to run again | 01:18 |
| +perlDreamer | but in this case, just stopping spectre should work fine | 01:19 |
| +perlDreamer | remember, spectre is the controller, and it calls WebGUI to do the heavy work | 01:19 |
| +perlDreamer | DBI says we can use something like this to limit the amount of data returned: http://gist.github.com/466009 | 01:22 |
| +perlDreamer | but who knows if DBD::mysql uses it or not? | 01:23 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: fetchrow_* happens above the result set. MySQL will have fetched everything to memory. It doesn't have real cursor or lazy reads like Pg. | 01:24 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: The only advantage would be no array-to-array copying inside Perl. The dataset will still be huge. | 01:24 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: If I stop spectre and start it again, the workflow is still there waiting to run again. | 01:26 |
| +perlDreamer | the instance is still in the db | 01:26 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: That's what I meant by 'removing' :-) | 01:26 |
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| * perlDreamer takes a bicycle break | 01:43 | |
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| SquOnk | perlDreamer: We found the culprit. A missing index. | 02:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, spectre is keeping up (or ahead) now? | 02:56 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: The activity was too slow. | 03:03 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: So we added an index | 03:03 |
| SquOnk | create index on userloginlog ( sessionid ) | 03:03 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: It flies now :-) | 03:03 |
| +perlDreamer | good to know | 03:03 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Yes. That index is needed, definitely. | 03:04 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: We're running the activity every five minutes, takes a few _seconds_ to finish and cleans up roughly 25-30% of the expired sessions. | 03:05 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: And it also reduced the load on the database. | 03:05 |
| SquOnk | All right, I gotta go :-) | 03:06 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Talk to you later if I can. | 03:07 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r751aa21 / t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm : when intercepting logging for tests, set all test levels to be true. - http://bit.ly/cmM6Kl | 03:13 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r553b4cb / t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm : when intercepting logging for tests, set all test levels to be true. - http://bit.ly/9V8qNY | 03:13 |
| +perlDreamer | so much for one afternoon's time | 03:13 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbc33063 / (t/Search.t t/Search/Index.t): Use code that works with the WRE's mysql for detecting ft_min_word_len - http://bit.ly/bxKcDJ | 03:36 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r48cde5f / (t/Search.t t/Search/Index.t): Use code that works with the WRE's mysql for detecting ft_min_word_len - http://bit.ly/at44n0 | 03:36 |
| +perlDreamer | that's not at all pleasant, either | 03:36 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r86ea723 / (121 files in 61 dirs): Preparing for 7.8.23 release - http://bit.ly/bKbYrw | 07:35 |
| +perlDreamer | stoopid demo sites! | 08:01 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r82e0fc7 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.24 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/bJxl4M | 08:22 |
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| -!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.8.23-stable | 7.9.8-beta | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com | 08:43 | |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * recec483 / lib/WebGUI/Paths.pm : prevent preloading of upgrade modules (+22 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/95FQK3 | 10:40 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * re530222 / lib/WebGUI/Config.pm : remove internal cache of WebGUI::Config objects - http://bit.ly/a5aUaB | 10:52 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r8943853 / (4 files in 4 dirs): remove code trying to prevent caching of config objects - http://bit.ly/9PYHCj | 10:52 |
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| spacebat | I'm wondering why the source install of webgui is said to run a lot slower than the binary packages | 11:01 |
| spacebat | if we're to use it, I doubt we'll be able to get new machines to do so, in which case we'd be running it on machines that already have a fairly extensive perl ecosystem | 11:03 |
| spacebat | also we'd likely be hacking and pushing our own upgrades onto it, which makes me think the source install is what we'd want | 11:04 |
| Haarg | it's basically just that the build options used for the wre are adjusted to work better with webgui | 11:05 |
| Haarg | i doubt it makes much real difference though | 11:06 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * re4792fe / (19 files in 8 dirs): move var -> share - http://bit.ly/aESQLH | 11:07 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:23 |
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| +perlDreamer | nice find, Haarg! | 17:51 |
| @khenn | what are you supposed to add to your Moose class when you extend a non Moose class? | 17:57 |
| +perlDreamer | isn't is MooseX:Nonmoose, or something like that? | 17:58 |
| @khenn | not sure | 17:59 |
| @khenn | trying to find it on google | 17:59 |
| @frodwith | There is a MooseX::NonMoose that is supposed to transparently handle any strangeness | 18:00 |
| @khenn | ah ok | 18:01 |
| +perlDreamer | khenn, there are also Moose docs about extending non-Moose objects with Moose | 18:01 |
| +perlDreamer | start with perldoc Moose::Manual | 18:01 |
| @khenn | yeah I'm looking there now | 18:01 |
| @frodwith | http://search.cpan.org/dist/Moose/lib/Moose/Cookbook/Basics/Recipe11.pod | 18:01 |
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| @preaction | okay, i've changed the WebGUI 8 ticket tracker to be postable / editable / closable by webgui 8 developers. if you need permissions, let me know | 18:25 |
| @preaction | Haarg: you can close and edit tickets now | 18:25 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra7b8d94 / share/upgrades/7.9.8-8.0.0/addMaintenancePageToConfig.pl : Fix syntax error in an upgrade script - http://bit.ly/ddRXEc | 18:50 |
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| @scrottie | hi everyone. afk. | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | howdy, scrottie | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | breakfast, bbl | 19:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | hey, kimd! | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | How was the move? | 20:12 |
| kimd | Hey, pearldreamer! That was quick. | 20:12 |
| kimd | The move was ok. | 20:12 |
| kimd | We are still struggling with all the boxes. | 20:13 |
| +perlDreamer | didn't you just move a little while ago? | 20:13 |
| kimd | At least we are connected with the world again. | 20:13 |
| kimd | Jun 21, actually. But it always takes longer than expected. | 20:13 |
| kimd | So, what's up in the webgui world? | 20:14 |
| kimd | Did I miss anything important? | 20:14 |
| +perlDreamer | Lots of UTF-8 bugs | 20:14 |
| +perlDreamer | some fixed, some in progress | 20:14 |
| +perlDreamer | Lots of WebGUI 8 work | 20:14 |
| +perlDreamer | patspam, Haarg and preaction went to YAPC 2010, and came back full of new perly goodness | 20:15 |
| kimd | What does that mean exactly? | 20:15 |
| kimd | New practices? | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Yes, and positive attitude and energy | 20:15 |
| kimd | That's good. preaction seemed a bit fatalistic, recently. | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | He's got a very hard job | 20:16 |
| kimd | I assume he has. | 20:16 |
| kimd | WebGUI 8 making good progress? | 20:16 |
| kimd | Is it possible to run it already? | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a new public page for tracking WebGUI8 work | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | webgui.org/8 | 20:17 |
| kimd | I have seen that one. | 20:17 |
| kimd | I was wondering whether I should continue to work on the gallery or rather contribute to WebGUI 8. | 20:17 |
| kimd | What is your opinion on that? | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | we'd love to have some help on 8, but there's a lot to learn | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | you may find yourself more productive on master | 20:18 |
| kimd | I am afraid I would not be very efficient. | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | on our side, we're not concerned about efficiency | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | but we don't want to burn you out | 20:18 |
| kimd | My regular job is already good for that. | 20:19 |
| kimd | I will have very little time in the near future anyhow. | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | $dayJob really busy? | 20:19 |
| kimd | Towards the end of the year it should get better. | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | and didn't you move another time, within the last year or so? | 20:19 |
| kimd | Extreme. Vacation time at the moment and we need to fill all the gaps. | 20:19 |
| kimd | I did. The current job is a lot safer and better paid. | 20:20 |
| kimd | It was a good decision. | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | excellent! | 20:20 |
| kimd | However, I have more responsibility and need to work a lot. | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | bummer | 20:20 |
| kimd | Sometimes, I wished I could hide somewhere and just do what I love to do. | 20:21 |
| kimd | No more time for lab work. It's all desk work now. | 20:21 |
| kimd | Still, no reason to complain. | 20:21 |
| kimd | What about you? Business going well? Kids developing? | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | Kids just learned to ride bicycles | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | so we've gone out almost every day on rides | 20:22 |
| kimd | Hey! That is probably exciting. | 20:22 |
| kimd | I like that. | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | my older boy and I are planning on doing "The Bridge Pedal" in Portland | 20:22 |
| kimd | We live now near the black forest, btw. | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | http://blog.bridgepedal.com/ | 20:22 |
| kimd | Good terrain for bike tours. | 20:22 |
| kimd | Nice. I hope it's a webgui site. | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | no :( | 20:23 |
| kimd | Then you should boycott. | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm a strong WebGUI fan, but I'm a larger Peter Kuskie fan | 20:25 |
| +perlDreamer | the boy wants to bike, and that's something we encourage :) | 20:25 |
| kimd | Alright. I get your point. I think we can have an exception there. But only this time!!! | 20:26 |
| kimd | Enjoy the ride. | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | we're going to do the 5 bridge ride | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | it will be very fun | 20:26 |
| kimd | Think about buying a tandem. It's fun. | 20:27 |
| +perlDreamer | We used to use trailer bikes, which are tandem attachments for kids | 20:27 |
| +perlDreamer | but they got big, and heavy | 20:27 |
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| kimd | That is exactly what I was having in mind. Have seen it before on the streets. | 20:29 |
| kimd | I definitely want one for me and my daughter. | 20:29 |
| kimd | Can't wait for it. | 20:29 |
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| SquOnk | Greetings. | 20:30 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: The index made the difference. | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk: if you file a bug for that, I'll add it to the core on bugfixing day next week. | 20:32 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: All right. | 20:32 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: I'll do it after lunch. | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | kimd, Trek makes a trailer bike attachment | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I happen to have two used ones, but I'd guess it'd be cheaper to buy one in Germany rather than ship it to you | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | they are bulky, and relatively heavy | 20:33 |
| kimd | Probably. I need to check which brands they sell over here. | 20:33 |
| kimd | It can't be that expensive. But sometimes you are surprised. | 20:33 |
| kimd | We can have a trailer exchange once we bought one. | 20:33 |
| kimd | I mean, in terms of experience. | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | we just went down to the local bike shop and bought them | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | bicycling is very popular in portland | 20:34 |
| kimd | Will check. There are many bike stores around. | 20:35 |
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| +perlDreamer | I need a Property metaclass name that means, "Does not get written to the db", so that we can have read/write methods in objects that are object only, like $cart->error | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | any suggestions? | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Definition::Meta::NoPersist | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Definition::Meta::ObjectOnly | 21:31 |
| @preaction | has? why does it need to be a property? | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I wrote some sloppy write methods that essentially do | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | $self->session->db->setRow(table, identifier, $self->get()); | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and I need a way to distinguish which object attributes get persisted to the db, and which don't | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | for example, the cart has an attribute for storing an error | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | that never gets written to the db | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't want to stuff it into the object hash directly | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | so I need a way to tag it | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | we have a way to tag attributes to work with set, Definition::Meta::Settable | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | ooh! Definition::Meta::Writable | 21:34 |
| @preaction | why would self->get return anything that was not created with a property keyword? | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | $self->get('assetId') | 21:34 |
| @preaction | well, property or define keyword | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | we do things like $self->get('lineage') | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | which is defined with has | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | are you going nutz, preaction? | 21:43 |
| thepacmanfan | is http://www.america.gov/ still running on WebGUI? | 21:44 |
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| @preaction | thepacmanfan: view-source, look for <meta name="generator" value="WebGUI X.X.X" /> | 21:45 |
| thepacmanfan | niiiiiice. magic :P | 21:46 |
| thepacmanfan | thanks | 21:46 |
| thepacmanfan | so i'm looking for a CMS to run alongside Magento. | 21:53 |
| thepacmanfan | at this point i'm looking at Drupal, MODx, and WebGUI. | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | what kind of features are you looking for in a CMS? | 21:56 |
| thepacmanfan | it's for a manufacturer. it'll primarily be static content (product spec pages with fluff), with lots of images and embedded videos. we have a wordpress blog, but we may end up wanting to integrate the blog with the CMS down the road. | 21:56 |
| thepacmanfan | we don't want a clunky back end (i'm looking at you, Joomla) | 21:57 |
| @rizen | doesn't magento have a built in CMS? | 21:57 |
| @rizen | the reason i ask is, what features are you looking for that it doesn't have? | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI has a built-in commerce system. It's not as feature-full as magento's, but it uses all of the WebGUI permissions, users, groups and templating system | 21:57 |
| thepacmanfan | rizen, it does, but i hate to box ourselves in by doing CMS stuff in an ecommerce app | 21:58 |
| @rizen | fair enough | 21:59 |
| thepacmanfan | Magento makes it dificult to put out "just content" pages | 21:59 |
| @rizen | that's sort of like the ecommerce system in webgui | 21:59 |
| @rizen | it's there if you need simple ecommerce | 21:59 |
| @rizen | with your cms | 21:59 |
| +perlDreamer | you've got CMS in my Ecommerce! | 21:59 |
| @rizen | so it's probably the inverse with magento | 21:59 |
| +perlDreamer | __you've__ got Ecommerce in my CMS | 22:00 |
| thepacmanfan | you have to dump your content into a static block, and associate that block with a category, to get your content page on the menu | 22:00 |
| @rizen | i see | 22:00 |
| thepacmanfan | rizen: it would do what we wanted if it didn't want you to associate any prominent content with a category | 22:00 |
| thepacmanfan | but oh well | 22:01 |
| @rizen | well webgui can almost certainly handle any content management problem you throw at it. people have billions of pages of content in their WebGUI sites | 22:01 |
| @rizen | Billions isn't an exaggeration btw. We have some clients that are approaching a billion pages by themselves. | 22:01 |
| thepacmanfan | so one of my biggest concerns is themeing... the Magento and CMS integrations need to be seamless. | 22:02 |
| thepacmanfan | billions? holy cow. nice. | 22:02 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI's style is templatable | 22:02 |
| @rizen | http://www.webgui.org/sightings | 22:03 |
| @rizen | webgui can look like anything | 22:03 |
| @rizen | the sightings page can show you just how different they can look | 22:03 |
| thepacmanfan | most of those aren't that notable to be... america.gov looks awesome | 22:03 |
| +perlDreamer | it won't use the same templating system as Magento, but that's just a question of coding and maintenance | 22:03 |
| thepacmanfan | but i see a flexibility there | 22:03 |
| thepacmanfan | *to me | 22:03 |
| thepacmanfan | well, i guess at this point i might as well install it and get my hands dirty | 22:04 |
| thepacmanfan | does it run on Lightspeed? | 22:05 |
| @preaction | it's apache/mod_perl specifically, but the WRE's install uses a reverse proxy to the mod_perl httpd | 22:06 |
| thepacmanfan | what is WRE? | 22:06 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI Runtime Enviroment | 22:06 |
| @preaction | WebGUI Runtime Environment, a recommended way to install and run WebGUI | 22:06 |
| thepacmanfan | hmm, we probably won't want to run it on our Magento server then. | 22:06 |
| thepacmanfan | thanks for the info :) | 22:07 |
| @preaction | litespeed themselves recommend using litespeed to reverse proxy to an apache/mod_perl instance | 22:07 |
| @preaction | http://www.litespeedtech.com/faq.html#modpl | 22:08 |
| thepacmanfan | true, i'd forgotten about that | 22:08 |
| thepacmanfan | are there any particular reasons you prefer WebGUI over MODx? | 22:08 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI has a huge set of built-in applications | 22:09 |
| +perlDreamer | that all talk to one another | 22:09 |
| @preaction | and those built-in apps are fully-supported | 22:09 |
| @preaction | http://turnkeye.com/blog/2010/04/nginx-vs-litespeed-test-magento/ <- benchmarks of magento on nginx vs. litespeed | 22:10 |
| @rizen | also, all of webgui's templating is web based | 22:10 |
| @rizen | and last thing i knew, you had to edit PHP files directly on the server for MODx | 22:10 |
| @rizen | it makes templating a lot easier for regular peeps | 22:10 |
| @preaction | no PHP or Perl required to edit templates in webgui. | 22:11 |
| @preaction | just HTML | 22:11 |
| thepacmanfan | hmm... that might be nice | 22:11 |
| thepacmanfan | i'm so used to Magento's system, i feel like i can jump into anything now | 22:12 |
| thepacmanfan | but either way | 22:12 |
| @rizen | the only down side to webgui is that it's so big that there is a small but managable learning curve | 22:12 |
| thepacmanfan | i think i will give WebGUI a try | 22:12 |
| @preaction | you'd have the same curve in anything else | 22:12 |
| thepacmanfan | does it look like it'll stay active for years to come? | 22:13 |
| +perlDreamer | we sure hope so! | 22:13 |
| @rizen | it's been alive since June 2001 | 22:13 |
| @rizen | so no reason that it wouldn't continue | 22:13 |
| @rizen | and it has a huge user base | 22:13 |
| thepacmanfan | the forums and IRC look relatively quiet... | 22:13 |
| @rizen | our users are mostly business customers, and therefore aren't very active in the community | 22:14 |
| @rizen | most of the activity is in the paid support forums | 22:14 |
| +perlDreamer | and the bug board | 22:14 |
| @rizen | heh | 22:14 |
| @rizen | yeah, and the bug board | 22:14 |
| +perlDreamer | and recently, the RFE board | 22:14 |
| thepacmanfan | i see | 22:14 |
| @rizen | you could try it before you install it at http://demo.webgui.org | 22:15 |
| @rizen | post back here if you have questions during the demo | 22:16 |
| thepacmanfan | are you part of the team? | 22:16 |
| @preaction | we're also hard at work on a major version upgrade, http://webgui.org/8 | 22:16 |
| @rizen | yup | 22:16 |
| thepacmanfan | cool :) | 22:16 |
| @preaction | anyone here in #webgui with +o (@ in front of the name) is an employee of Plain Black Corp, the holders of the copyright to WebGUI | 22:16 |
| thepacmanfan | that's a nice change from Magento! | 22:16 |
| thepacmanfan | how many total devs work on it? | 22:17 |
| +perlDreamer | The webgui wiki also has a bunch of information about setting up and using WebGUI | 22:17 |
| @preaction | we've got 5, plus perlDreamer, kimd, patspam, and haarg | 22:17 |
| +perlDreamer | and MrHairgrease, SynQ, joeri, the Knowmad team | 22:17 |
| +perlDreamer | rogier, martien | 22:17 |
| thepacmanfan | awesome | 22:17 |
| @preaction | haven't heard much from the Dutch teams recently, but there are at least 6 devs there (among the businesses that use WebGUI) | 22:18 |
| +perlDreamer | I think they're as busy as we are | 22:18 |
| +perlDreamer | lots of WebGUI mobile work, if anything can be gleaned from their upcoming conference talks | 22:19 |
| @preaction | most likely, things are looking up in the economy, people looking to repair websites they were unable to repair previously | 22:19 |
| +perlDreamer | thepacmanfan: the WebGUI Primer is a good booklet for an introduction to WebGUI, and it's downloadable and free | 22:19 |
| thepacmanfan | alright, thanks perlDreamer | 22:19 |
| thepacmanfan | brb. coke time. ;) | 22:20 |
| @preaction | and of course, we're always here, though most of us are on US time | 22:20 |
| +perlDreamer | https://www.plainblack.com/services/training/webgui-primer | 22:20 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re5a2af0 / t/Shop/Vendor.t : Add test for new with properties. - http://bit.ly/9BBNLa | 22:26 |
| thepacmanfan | yeah, i'm here 8-4 CST so that works well :) | 22:30 |
| +perlDreamer | what kind of manufacturing are you in? | 22:32 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r416f62f / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Vendor.pm t/Shop/Vendor.t): Fix problems with Moose style object creation. - http://bit.ly/b6MZ4J | 22:32 |
| thepacmanfan | concrete engraving tools and supplies | 22:32 |
| thepacmanfan | electric saws, air chisel tools, recirculating sandblasters, etc | 22:33 |
| +perlDreamer | that's an unusual one | 22:33 |
| thepacmanfan | yeah, it's a bit of a niche market, i think. very cool company, though | 22:34 |
| +perlDreamer | cool! | 22:34 |
| thepacmanfan | we market to contractors who engrave and stain existing concrete, as opposed to most companies that can only do stuff with new concrete | 22:35 |
| +perlDreamer | that would definitely give them an advantage in bidding | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | it's way cheaper to rework what you have, rather then rip up what's there and pour in new | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | to get color, or textures and shapes | 22:37 |
| thepacmanfan | yeah... one area it really shines is guys that are out there laying paving stone | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | like for walkways and patios? | 22:38 |
| thepacmanfan | and driveways even | 22:39 |
| * perlDreamer takes a lunch break. Be back in a little while. | 22:39 | |
| thepacmanfan | lots of stone layers have to tear out old concrete before they can put down sand and lay pavers... well, one i talked to a while back said he currently bids that work at $25-30/sq ft.... the dude was all excited because he could just get a saw and a few attachments, and cut grooves and stain the existing concrete instead of tearing it out | 22:40 |
| thepacmanfan | he fully expected his costs would drop by 300-400%, and he could drop his prices by 25-30% and pocket the remainder... and of course make a killing ;) | 22:41 |
| thepacmanfan | err, his costs would drop ~75% | 22:42 |
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| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Hey there. Just filed the bug :-) | 23:04 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, SquOnk! | 23:18 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: back to Roles and attributes and get | 23:46 |
| +perlDreamer | Maybe we should mark them at Gettable, instead of assuming that they can all be used? | 23:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | actually, it would be better to assume that everything is gettable, and we should mark those to exclude | 23:51 |
| @preaction | no, it would be better to mark the properties in the database, but i don't know | 23:53 |
| @preaction | we're tripping over everything because we just had to keep the schema as-is... | 23:53 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe this is an issue I'm creating by the way I'm moving things from Class::InsideOut to Moose | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | the classic WebGUI object has | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | session and properties | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | get returns properties, update/set sets propeties and may also write it to the db | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | when I moved it Moose, I flattened it | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | get already manually screens out session, but now it has to screen out arbitrary attributes | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | that's why I thought of marking things as Gettable, Settable, Writable | 23:57 |
| @preaction | you mean update/set has to screen them out | 23:57 |
| CIA-59 | WebGUI: translation * r12529 /translations/German/German/ (Auth_Twitter.pm Asset_Post.pm Shop.pm Asset_Thingy.pm): Updating German on translation server | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, set uses the Settable property to screen stuff | 23:57 |
| @preaction | get won't cause an error if something isn't gettable, update/set will | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, but when get is used to return a hash, it checks for all attributes | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | which could return a session object | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | and pass it to the template | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | and in TT, that's bad | 23:58 |
| @preaction | okay, wait, let's back up here. what is the real problem? | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we're getting there :) | 23:58 |
| @preaction | we aren't using TT, we don't need to care about it | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | sidebar, isn't TT planned for 8.0-alpha? | 23:58 |
| @preaction | i don't. we started at "A property that shouldn't be written to the database" | 23:59 |
| @preaction | no | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | but it's an optional plugin anyway | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Thu Jul 08 2010 | ||
| +perlDreamer | and get has never returned session before, and it shouldn't start now | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | in any case, the general problem | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI needs a way to mark attributes as being gettable or not, settable or not, and probably, writable to the db, or not | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | gettable, settable, persistable | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | gettable, for blocking things that shouldn't be gotten, like session (any class) or error (Shop/Cart) | 00:03 |
| +perlDreamer | settable, for things like lineage, parentId, etc in Asset | 00:03 |
| @preaction | why shouldn't error be gotten? | 00:03 |
| @preaction | settable == Moose's readonly? | 00:03 |
| +perlDreamer | that may work | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | error is a problem because I wrote a schlocky write method for Shop/Cart | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | $self->session->db->setRow(table, identifier, $self->get()); | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | but that can be fixed by getting all the attributes, and checking them 1 by 1 | 00:04 |
| CIA-59 | WebGUI: translation * r12530 /translations/German/German/Shop.pm: Updating German on translation server | 00:11 |
| CIA-59 | WebGUI: translation * r12531 /translations/German/German/Auth_Twitter.pm: Updating German on translation server | 00:11 |
| carogray | head tags in metadata of page/article and assets on page? | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | say what, carogray? | 00:23 |
| carogray | I just put Martinez v. Astrue in the head tags under the metadata for a whole branch of pages | 00:23 |
| carogray | edited the branch | 00:23 |
| carogray | when I look at the source code | 00:24 |
| carogray | I get | 00:24 |
| carogray | Martinez v. Astrue settlement Martinez v. Astrue settlementMartinez v. Astrue settlementMartinez v. Astrue settlementMartinez v. Astrue settlementMartinez v. Astrue settlement | 00:24 |
| carogray | only wanted it once | 00:24 |
| carogray | what should I have done? | 00:24 |
| +perlDreamer | each asset has a chance to put their own metadata into the head tags | 00:24 |
| @preaction | all of a Page Layout's assets' metadata are added to the full page | 00:24 |
| +perlDreamer | so maybe just put it into the Page Layouts, and not the other kinds of assets | 00:24 |
| carogray | aah ok thought that might be it, just wanted confirmation thanks | 00:25 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, I'm getting test failures for many of the newly merged modules | 01:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Paths, Upgrades | 01:32 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra1f1bf4 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm t/Shop/Cart.t): | 01:32 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Move Cart to Moose. | 01:32 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Remove the global AddressBook cache, replace it with a per-object cache. Merge create into | 01:32 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: new, but leave a create stub for legacy code. - http://bit.ly/bnF62B | 01:32 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re617567 / t/Whitespace.t : The first line of a file is allowed to be POD. Change initial conditions of internal flags to allow this. - http://bit.ly/a5eJQ5 | 01:36 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra60a2cc / sbin/testEnvironment.pl : Document new module required for testing. - http://bit.ly/bScY4X | 01:40 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry, Haarg. The undocumented module got me. | 01:44 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4cbbed3 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm : Allow creationDate to be settable in the Cart. - http://bit.ly/cIA8XN | 01:53 |
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| SquOnk | Greetings | 05:03 |
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| elnino | hi! | 08:09 |
| elnino | bye! | 08:10 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:25 |
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| CIA-59 | WebGUI: translation * r12532 /translations/Swedish/ (20 files in 2 dirs): Updating Swedish on translation server | 17:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | morning, folks | 19:00 |
| Haarg | morning | 19:00 |
| @preaction | mornin! | 19:01 |
| * perlDreamer prepares to wreak havoc with the AddressBook API | 19:24 | |
| thepacmanfan | mornin' | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | hey, thepacmanfan! | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | did you have a chance to check out the demo server for WebGUI? | 19:25 |
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| SquOnk | Greetings | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | yo, SquOnk | 19:35 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: The index thing... huge win! | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | awesome. We'll put it into 7.9.9 core, and 7.8.24 the week after | 19:40 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Now I'm escalating the json.js license thing... the original author is, well, "uncooperative" | 19:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | as preaction mentioned in "the bug that is not a bug", isn't YUI already in Debian? | 19:42 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9ebcc0a / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/AddressBook.pm lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm): Finish C::IO cleanup, strip out create guts. - http://bit.ly/bhIbNv | 19:45 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, preaction, should we have a GUID type for Moose. | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | ? | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd like to have one, because I'm seeing places where we want a userId, but don't allow the userId to be visitor | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | like in the AddressBook | 20:21 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: I wrote to the bug with additional details. | 20:21 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Yes, YUI is in Debian. Yes, Debian's YUI has been tagged with that as a bug. | 20:22 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: I just opened a ticket on YUI 2.8.1 to see if they fix that for 2.8.2 | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | What does it mean when you say "Debian must provide pristine sources"? | 20:22 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Unmodified sources. | 20:22 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Exactly what you provide for download. | 20:23 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: In general, exactly what upstream provides for download for any given package distributed by Debian. | 20:23 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: When I download from WebGUI's site, I rename it to webgui_7.8.23.orig.tar.gz | 20:23 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: My packaging is a patch pristine sources. | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | so, a Debian package for WebGUI would have our YUI, plus whatever patches Debian adds to it | 20:24 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: My patch _removes_ the YUI part from the _binary_ and links to Debian's YUI package. | 20:24 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: But the pristine source still have the oddly licensed file. | 20:24 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Debian must provide the binary _and_ the source. But the source is rendered non-free by that single file. | 20:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I applaud Debian's commitment to it's own rules, but it seems over the top in this case | 20:25 |
| +perlDreamer | Anything as vague as "Do no evil" would never stand up to the rigor applied to the GPL | 20:25 |
| +perlDreamer | evil is relative | 20:26 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: There's always someone that finds it over the top :-) | 20:26 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: That's the problem. Being vague renders it non-free. | 20:26 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: What you consider Good might be considered Evil by me. | 20:26 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: And every villain is a hero in his own movie ;-) | 20:26 |
| @preaction | someone could litigate that clause, that's the problem | 20:26 |
| @preaction | "The US Government uses WebGUI! They're evil! They're not allowed to use YUI!" | 20:27 |
| +perlDreamer | usually, vague language is thrown out by courts | 20:27 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Turns out that clause was sort of a 'joke' on the "let's fight Evil" proposition of GWB. | 20:27 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Then the software doesn't have a license, thus it becomes unusable without clarification. | 20:27 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: And the owner of the copyright just answered (in writing) "if you don't like my license, don't use the software". | 20:28 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Even funny: about three months ago he posted a replacement that's in the Public Domain... but didn't announce it nor mentioned it in the many places he's been bugged about it. | 20:29 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: As I said, I just filed a bug with YUI. Let see how it goes. | 20:29 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: The Debian bugs are 'RC' (Release Critical) meaning there will be no Debian stable release unless those bugs are resolved or changed priority. I don't think their priorities will change in the foreseeable future, though. | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | so no Debian stable until YUI fixes this | 20:30 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: And there are a _lot_ of bugs on Perl modules, JavaScript libraries, PHP applications and whatnot using the same json.js | 20:30 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Or no YUI, WebGUI in Debian stable unless those bugs get fixed. | 20:31 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: The Release Team has the ability to pull packages out of the release if the pending RC bugs don't have a clear resolution. | 20:31 |
| Haarg | preaction, did we ever decide what we wanted to do wrt invalid GUIDs? | 20:31 |
| SquOnk | ...any RC bug, not only licensing-related ones. | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | no YUI, WebGUI, perl modules, JS libs, PHP apps, ruby apps, etc | 20:32 |
| @preaction | SquOnk: w/o yui in stable, webgui can't work. we're trying to get rid of that dependency, but it's gonna take time | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, what would we in place of YUI? | 20:33 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: YUI from CDN | 20:33 |
| SquOnk | preaction: Oh, but it will get solved... | 20:33 |
| @preaction | installing YUI locally is optional | 20:33 |
| SquOnk | ...see it's just _one_ file in an _example_. | 20:33 |
| SquOnk | It's not even part of the YUI api. | 20:33 |
| @preaction | so problem solved, delete the entire examples directory | 20:34 |
| @preaction | we certainly do not need it | 20:34 |
| SquOnk | preaction: In WebGUI's tarball, yes. | 20:34 |
| @preaction | sounds good to me. objections from anyone else? | 20:34 |
| SquOnk | preaction: In YUI, get rid of that file or replace with the alternative I suggested. | 20:34 |
| @preaction | really, why are they using that json.js when YUI includes a completely different JSON API | 20:35 |
| SquOnk | preaction: Beats me. Hopefully, they'll notice with my bug and get rid of it :-) | 20:35 |
| @preaction | better idea, i'm an attention whore, so i'll do it and ask for a pull | 20:36 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6d03092 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Convert AddressBook to Moose. - http://bit.ly/chCstY | 20:37 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1193785 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/AddressBook.pm : Remove C::IO line - http://bit.ly/bM8RC6 | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | every single Cart module uses Class::InsideOut | 20:40 |
| thepacmanfan | did i understand correctly that a source install will not run on LiteSpeed? | 21:08 |
| @preaction | WebGUI runs on Apache/mod_perl only at the moment | 21:09 |
| @preaction | the 8.x branch runs on Plack, which you would reverse proxy from litespeed (same as apache/mod_perl, but much faster and more resource efficient) | 21:10 |
| thepacmanfan | alright | 21:10 |
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| @khenn | is WikiMasterKeywords a new table (new in WebGUI 7.8+) ? | 21:28 |
| @khenn | it must be | 21:29 |
| @khenn | not in 7.7.31 | 21:29 |
| @preaction | it's a 7.9 feature | 21:31 |
| @khenn | k | 21:32 |
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| MrHairgrease1 | howdy! | 22:40 |
| MrHairgrease1 | Has anybody ever heard of cs's putting aache in a endless loop? | 22:40 |
| MrHairgrease1 | ie. 100% cpu tme for ever and ever | 22:40 |
| MrHairgrease1 | in the child process | 22:41 |
| MrHairgrease1 | this is in 7.7.33 | 22:41 |
| MrHairgrease1 | bt it's hard to reproduce | 22:41 |
| @khenn | not seen it | 23:00 |
| @khenn | I have a site running around 300 CSs on 7.7.31 and never had that issue pop up | 23:00 |
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| SquOnk | perlDreamer: http://yuilibrary.com/projects/yui2/ticket/2529037 | 23:35 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: They're on to it. I'm betting they will simply delete the thing :-) | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds good to me! | 23:35 |
| --- Day changed Fri Jul 09 2010 | ||
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| SquOnk | perlDreamer: The bug has been dealt with :-) | 00:53 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: It's set for YUI 2.9.0 | 00:53 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: ...and they just deleted it <g> | 00:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | awesome | 01:01 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: what are the rules for using MySQL syntax? | 01:03 |
| @preaction | rules? what do you need to do? | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I did this in an upgrade, CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS WikiMasterKeywords | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | and someone's reporting that it didn't work | 01:04 |
| @preaction | are you sure it was a problem? | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 01:04 |
| @preaction | are you sure he didn't just miss the error in the upgrade that happened? | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | but I can't think of what else may have happened | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | 'tis possible, but how to prove it? | 01:05 |
| @preaction | it worked fine for me a couple weeks ago | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I reran the whole upgrade, from 7.9.0 to 7.9.9, and it worked fine | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | but that's with very new MySQL | 01:06 |
| @preaction | try going back to 7.7.31? | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll do that next, after i close out a ticket | 01:06 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, is there any way to remove all tags in a repo, and reimport them all from the remote origin? | 01:57 |
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| ckotil | I think one of my users found a bug with tinymce. when adding a link to an image, then center it, then turn off centering. it looses the link. | 16:25 |
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| SDuensin | FRIDAY!!!!! | 17:04 |
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| thepacmanfan | i have to have root access to run the WRE, right? | 17:29 |
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| SDuensin | Only if you want to use ports < 1000 (or is it 1024?). | 17:36 |
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| SDuensin | Mine all runs as "webgui". | 17:38 |
| thepacmanfan | yeah, but i have to have root access to create a new user don't i? | 17:41 |
| thepacmanfan | i'm just trying to figure out if i can run WRE on a bog standard shared hosting account. | 17:41 |
| SDuensin | Probably not. | 17:41 |
| thepacmanfan | heh | 17:41 |
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| thepacmanfan | oh, i guess i need root access to install from source, either.... | 17:44 |
| thepacmanfan | that's a Big Deal. | 17:44 |
| thepacmanfan | =\ | 17:44 |
| SDuensin | WebGUI really isn't fit for a low-end web host. | 17:44 |
| thepacmanfan | wonder if Drupal would run better... | 17:45 |
| SDuensin | Hey, watch your language. :-P | 17:45 |
| thepacmanfan | :o sorry | 17:45 |
| SDuensin | Honestly though, Drupal was designed with low-end hosting in mind. | 17:45 |
| thepacmanfan | i'm afraid it's going to be like pulling teeth to get a VPS just for WebGUI. | 17:46 |
| * SDuensin is glad to be off Drupal & Joomla, personally. | 17:46 | |
| thepacmanfan | yeah, i was looking forward to trying WebGUI... however, i need a CMS that can run on shared hosting. | 17:46 |
| SDuensin | There are quite a few WebGUI hosts that take care of running the software for you. PlainBlack, myself, etc. | 17:47 |
| thepacmanfan | did you prefer Drupal or Joomla? | 17:48 |
| SDuensin | That's like asking if I'd rather be shot or stabbed. | 17:49 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 17:49 |
| thepacmanfan | well, generally i'd rather be stabbed than shot, but that's just me ;) | 17:49 |
| SDuensin | Drupal seems more mature, but we just didn't see eye-to-eye. | 17:49 |
| thepacmanfan | i see | 17:50 |
| thepacmanfan | anything else out there that you'd consider? | 17:50 |
| SDuensin | Are you trying to stay within a budget or just as low as you can go? | 17:51 |
| SDuensin | Outside WebGUI? Not that I've found. I look all the time just to keep up with what else is out there. I remain WebGUI's #1 fan. :-) | 17:51 |
| thepacmanfan | i don't have a particular budget, but i'd have to get approval for it, which will be kind of tricky just for a development server at this point | 17:54 |
| SDuensin | Run it in a VM. How long do you need a test/dev box? | 17:55 |
| thepacmanfan | looking at Plain Black's hosting, we'll need the Mini VPS, but that's way above what we want to spend. | 17:55 |
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| thepacmanfan | i'd be looking for < $50/mo | 17:55 |
| thepacmanfan | but i would be tempted just to pick up a VPS from ServInt and run it myself | 17:55 |
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| SDuensin | I do WebGUI hosting for $30. Just WebGUI and DNS though. Nothing fancy. | 17:56 |
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| thepacmanfan | hmm... we may try a VPS. that way we can run other sites on it too. | 18:21 |
| SDuensin | Yup. WebGUI is worth it. :-D | 18:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | thepacmanfan, if you go with a VPS, just intstall the very minimum on the OS, drop in the WRE, and you're good to go | 18:33 |
| thepacmanfan | k | 18:33 |
| +perlDreamer | there are OS specific install notes in the WRE | 18:33 |
| +perlDreamer | like, on Red Hat-like OSes, you have to install libgomp | 18:33 |
| thepacmanfan | it's running CentOS 5... <3 CentOS | 18:33 |
| +perlDreamer | There was a poll from last year, and CentOS was the most popular OS for hosting WebGUI | 18:34 |
| thepacmanfan | ah | 18:35 |
| thepacmanfan | i'm pretty comfortable with CentOS these days... but maybe i'm kidding myself | 18:35 |
| thepacmanfan | :P | 18:35 |
| +perlDreamer | I used RedHat and Fedora for over 10 years, then I switched over to Ubuntu | 18:40 |
| +perlDreamer | there's even a WebGUI package in Debian | 18:42 |
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| SDuensin | UBUNTU! | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | OQAPI! | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | now, where's my beer? | 18:55 |
| SDuensin | I'm on MegaUpload.com reading their FAQ and had an interesting thought... For $199 you can get unlimited up/down/storage for life. Why has no-one used this as a filesystem yet? | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | because it's $200? | 18:57 |
| @preaction | because nobody's written the fuse plugin for it? | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg: http://gist.github.com/469641 | 18:59 |
| +perlDreamer | Paths.t fails | 18:59 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfc345f5 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/AddressBook.pm : Fix some POD typos, copy/paste. - http://bit.ly/bsLnW4 | 19:05 |
| @preaction | wow, merging 7.9 with 8 is ever so much fun! | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, don't do that | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll take care of it next wednesday, after the release | 19:24 |
| @preaction | i need it to continue, otherwise i can't do anything until then | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 19:25 |
| @preaction | i put some stuff in 7.9 because it could, but it's really needed for 8 | 19:25 |
| @preaction | that way it'll be better vetted when the time comes | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | vette | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | vette | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | well, it's been vetted twice so far | 19:59 |
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| @scrottie | blrahhghghg. | 20:25 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie, is that Arizone slang for TGIF? | 20:30 |
| @scrottie | hmm. not exactly. | 20:31 |
| @scrottie | I'm very confused. as usual. and I'm sitting in a coffee shop in San Francisco. which is unusual. | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, San Francisco not being in Arizona | 20:32 |
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| +perlDreamer | but what are you confused about? | 20:37 |
| @scrottie | $asset->getStorageLocation->getPath($asset->get('filename')) isn't matching where the files are actually stored. I have something inconsistent here. actually, two things aren't jivving. even what comes back for filename often doesn't exist in the copy on dusk. yet, somehow, the same of stuff I rsync'd down appears to work. there's stuff in the photo gallery. | 20:37 |
| @scrottie | maybe Frank changed what's on the dusk and stuff changed that much between snapshots, but I have a hard time imagining FileAsset records changing that much unless they completely deleted and recreated galleries. | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | every version has a new storage location | 20:38 |
| @scrottie | okay. would WebGUI::Asset::File::GalleryFile::Photo likely ever get versions? | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | if someone edited it | 20:39 |
| @scrottie | photos seem like something that would be uploaded, approved, then ignored. | 20:39 |
| +perlDreamer | titles and descriptions change | 20:39 |
| @scrottie | mmm. | 20:39 |
| +perlDreamer | in general you're right | 20:39 |
| +perlDreamer | but we're talking about the behavior of users | 20:39 |
| +perlDreamer | which falls into a finite distribution between "mostly predicatble" and "why did they do that" | 20:40 |
| @scrottie | no, what you're saying is helpful. I needed to loosen my premises, and in a direction I almost suspected. | 20:40 |
| @scrottie | heh | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | one way to check that is to look at the revisionDates in the db | 20:40 |
| @scrottie | this almost makes sense but attempts to confirm my understanding keep contradicting my understanding. | 20:40 |
| @scrottie | having assetData.revisionDate = max(assetData.revisionDate) ... I've been doing that a lot. | 20:41 |
| @scrottie | in fact, looking at the SQL output, I was kinda wanting to change code around to do that to combine queries down. | 20:41 |
| +perlDreamer | the only sure way to take a synchronized snapshot of a site is to shut off Apache and spectre, then take a db dump and a copy of the uploads | 20:41 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, all core changes require tests | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | so tread carefully :) | 20:42 |
| @scrottie | I don't have logins to the dev or production machines. all I have to work with is Frank's dumps. | 20:42 |
| @scrottie | yeah. this was slightly blue-sky. if I can't find my arse with both hands, I'm certainly not going to go changing stuff. | 20:42 |
| @scrottie | "it would be easier to rewrite this than to figure it out" is an insult I save for very bad code =) | 20:43 |
| @preaction | scrottie: uh, why don't you have logins yet? | 20:43 |
| @scrottie | I'm going to decline to answer that question. | 20:43 |
| @scrottie | if it's okay. | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, that would be taking the 25th | 20:44 |
| @scrottie | let's just say that the reasons are the same as why I'm asking Colin alumni questions. | 20:44 |
| +perlDreamer | the right not to incriminate oneself in an open IRC channel :) | 20:44 |
| @scrottie | heh | 20:44 |
| @scrottie | I know the first rule of IRC (never IRC drunk, ie, don't be Randal) but I'm not sure of 2..24. | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | rule #2 is "Don't ask for permission to ask, just ask" | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | rule #3 is "Be patient waiting for answers" | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | rule #4 is "Be polite" | 20:46 |
| @scrottie | don't paste. | 20:46 |
| @scrottie | don't hang out in #netsex and a work channel at the same time because eventually you will ww. | 20:46 |
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| @scrottie | and hitting #netsex with code is a complete buzz kill. | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | Read the FAQ, wiki and search the forums | 20:49 |
| @scrottie | $asset->getLineage(['descendants'], { returnObjects => 1, } ) ... the objects I get from that I would expect to be able to do getStorageLocation on and have a file. | 20:54 |
| @preaction | yes, they're just instantiated assets of the most recent revision (depending on your version tag) | 20:55 |
| @scrottie | just like the query finding the latest revision, it should be the latest revision... | 20:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie, that's "the latest revision this user can see" | 21:00 |
| +perlDreamer | pending version tags and such | 21:00 |
| @scrottie | oh, I have to look for approved status | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | not necessarily | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | if the user can see a pending version tag, then they should see the assets in it | 21:01 |
| @scrottie | right | 21:03 |
| @scrottie | update asset set className = 'WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Layout::AlumniLayout' where className = 'WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::AlumniLayout'; # I'm about to that. that just reeks of desperation. | 21:25 |
| @scrottie | just thought I'd share. | 21:26 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: is WebGUI::Test->cleanupAdminInbox a new thing or something that was removed in 8? | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | should not have been removed in 8, probably not merged in yet | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | either that, or it's been moved somewhere | 21:29 |
| @preaction | okay, so i messed up a bit | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | but I ran the whole suite this morning, and all the expected tests passed | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | it's way easy to do | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | that's why i'm going to do it every two weeks from now on | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | so they don't diverge so far again | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | also so Haarg doesn't get stuck dealing with all the indenting and session work that I keep doing | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | that was totally not fair to do to him | 21:31 |
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| * perlDreamer takes an extended lunch break | 21:55 | |
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| * perlDreamer is back | 23:38 | |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r73da9e3 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Convert Address to Moose. - http://bit.ly/8ZzxXz | 23:50 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0560de2 / lib/WebGUI/Friends.pm : Use module line. - http://bit.ly/dp7sOX | 23:51 |
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| --- Day changed Sat Jul 10 2010 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, I'm halfway through the Class::InsideOut conversion work | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | another week, perhaps two, and it'll be done | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know how to handle CRUD easily | 00:09 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r09767a4 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Pay.pm : Remove commented out module use line. - http://bit.ly/dprTY6 | 00:27 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r49182ae / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Credit.pm : Convert Shop::Credit to Moose - http://bit.ly/aT3vNA | 00:27 |
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| @scrottie | grr. X has locked up twice today. | 00:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | patspam, do you have any hackathon projects? | 01:01 |
| @scrottie | ^AlumniImageFromStorage(BVK3Nudsi85FNvGSBIQSww) ... this appears literally in output of my SQLQuery. "Preprocess macros on query?" is Yes. I have no idea what that option actually does. I'm generating the ^Template output using concat on literal strings and the argument: select ... concat('^AlumniImageFromStorage(', FileAsset.storageId, ')'), ... | 01:11 |
| @scrottie | any suggestions before I start reading the code to see how this works? | 01:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie, make sure that the Macro is in the config file | 01:13 |
| +perlDreamer | make sure that all required modules are present | 01:13 |
| +perlDreamer | and then check the WebGUI log file for more love notes | 01:14 |
| @scrottie | done, done, done. | 01:14 |
| @scrottie | thanks. alrighty. let's see... | 01:14 |
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| @scrottie | yup. macros are processed before the query is run, not on the output of the query. | 01:34 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie, are the macros in a template? | 01:53 |
| @scrottie | they wind up as template variables. | 01:54 |
| @scrottie | er, in template variables. | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, that could definitely be a problem | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | nope, seems to work okay | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1278694770_191/home/untitled | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | works with and without asset focus | 01:57 |
| @scrottie | I'm trying to find the code that parses the ^macro stuff out to figure out what the rules are for being recognized... | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | check out that link I posted above | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | standard webgui admin login | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | this is the query I used: select userId, username, concat(userId," ^u;") as trial from users | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | and I get evaluated macros in the output | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | what kind of output are you looking for? | 01:59 |
| +perlDreamer | HTML, download, CSV? | 01:59 |
| @scrottie | HTML | 02:00 |
| @scrottie | concat(userId," ^u;") ... not familiar with the 111 ^u syntax | 02:01 |
| @scrottie | er, 111 ^u; | 02:01 |
| +perlDreamer | ^u; is the company url macro | 02:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | I just needed a macro that I could test for evaluation | 02:01 |
| +perlDreamer | although, I suspect that macros are being evaluated in a second pass | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | Can't remember the execution order | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | if it's template, than macros, or the other way around | 02:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | in any case, that simple test case seems to be working | 02:03 |
| @scrottie | it sure as heck is. | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | but that's also on 7.8.22 | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | client site is likely running something else | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | so it could be a bug that will be fixed with an upgrade | 02:04 |
| @scrottie | nope. | 02:04 |
| @scrottie | concat('^AlumniImageFromStorage(', FileAsset.storageId, ')'), # wrong | 02:04 |
| @scrottie | concat('^AlumniImageFromStorage(', FileAsset.storageId, ');'), # much better | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, semicolon required | 02:05 |
| @scrottie | (trivial test)++ | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | parens are optional, but not the semicolon, or the caret | 02:05 |
| @scrottie | I failed to remember after reading that and then did a bad cargo cult job from another template. | 02:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | happy weekend! | 02:52 |
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| eiro | hello all | 14:49 |
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| eiro | re | 15:01 |
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| @rizen | pat are you here? | 20:09 |
| @rizen | patspam, nah-nah-nah-nah-nah-nah, patspam | 20:10 |
| @rizen | it's like batman only not | 20:10 |
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| --- Day changed Sun Jul 11 2010 | ||
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| CIA-59 | WebGUI: translation * r12533 /translations/German/German/Auth_Twitter.pm: Updating German on translation server | 21:41 |
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| @preaction | so i keep thinking more and more that we need Spectre to just DO THINGS instead of passing off to the server | 22:03 |
| @preaction | ex: Say i make a RemoteVideo asset that accepts a movie file and eventually uploads it to Viddler for you. if the viddler upload takes longer than 60 seconds, it can't be done during commit. but that is where it needs to be done. | 22:04 |
| @preaction | no, wait, nm, it needs to be done before commit | 22:04 |
| @preaction | which is probably worse | 22:04 |
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| carogray | Spain won the world cup! 1-0 in about 27 minutes overtime | 00:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, IMO, video submit would be handled by a completely different workflow, that is triggered after the user "commits" the new asset. | 01:23 |
| +perlDreamer | also, re soccer if the Dutch government used more WebGUI, they would have won the cup. | 01:24 |
| +perlDreamer | Just sayin' | 01:24 |
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| fokat | preaction, Yeah, Spectre should _do_. | 05:39 |
| fokat | preaction, This allows for decoupled tasks where only the result is interesting for WG. | 05:40 |
| fokat | Also, it could run on a separate machine if needed. | 05:40 |
| +perlDreamer | bah | 06:20 |
| +perlDreamer | you can already run spectre on a separate machine | 06:20 |
| +perlDreamer | spectre was designed to be small, and not to take up any memory | 06:21 |
| +perlDreamer | if you make it do things, it will take up memory | 06:21 |
| @preaction | right, but i need something truly async, we don't have anything like that yet | 06:21 |
| +perlDreamer | async from what? | 06:21 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:34 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5fdb8e3 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Shop.pm): fix copy/paste error with shop template variables. Fixes bug #11709 - http://bit.ly/ca1onJ | 19:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: regarding the YUI licensing issue, we're just nuking the examples directory for now, yes? | 19:30 |
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| @preaction | yes | 19:31 |
| @preaction | it's not necessary | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, if the code editor bugs were fixed, we _could_ release 7.9 as stable | 19:32 |
| @preaction | there's a half-dozen non-code-editor-related bugs | 19:34 |
| @preaction | the first page or two | 19:34 |
| @preaction | the last two pages are all HelpDesk and unfixables | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | I may be able to reduce that number over the next few days... | 19:37 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8938685 / (1186 files in 101 dirs): Purge YUI example code due to license issues with Debian*. Fixes bug #11710. - http://bit.ly/9LY86d | 19:37 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r6128c0d / (1186 files in 101 dirs): Remove YUI example code due to licensing issues with Debian*. Fixes bug #11710. - http://bit.ly/aDjsO0 | 19:39 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: you'll also have scrottie, so if you can both hammer the hell out of them, we can get in a good position | 19:41 |
| +perlDreamer | suit him up and send him over. | 19:41 |
| +perlDreamer | He'll fix bugs, oh yes he well! | 19:42 |
| @preaction | i still have one feature i want to put in to 7.9, so i may have you do that if you're up to it | 19:42 |
| +perlDreamer | feature? Which one? | 19:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I was thinking of implementing the satyam recommended Asset Manager speed-up, but priorities. | 19:43 |
| @preaction | asset-based dispatch, moving the guts of WebGUI::Content::Asset to WebGUI::Asset->dispatch() | 19:43 |
| +perlDreamer | What's the advantage of doing it that way? | 19:44 |
| @preaction | it can be overridden | 19:45 |
| @preaction | i override dispatch() to provide my own implementation of ?func= | 19:45 |
| +perlDreamer | so this is for compatibility with M::WG? | 19:46 |
| @preaction | there's also a change to how WebGUI picks which asset is dispatched to, it checks multiple assets which can either handle it or pass it on. this way we have dirhandlers, and the RssFeed aspect can control .rss | 19:46 |
| @preaction | ?func= needs to die, but slowly | 19:47 |
| @preaction | no, this is just for greater power and flexibility | 19:47 |
| @preaction | and i hope for compatibility with Catalyst (Catalyst-based Assets anyone?) | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | NO! | 19:47 |
| @preaction | but like so many things, we have to start by making it POSSIBLE | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | if you write up a loose spec of what you want, then it will be done | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | or, just write up a failing test suite with good comments, and I'll make it pass | 19:48 |
| @preaction | then slowly make it easier until it's the preferred method, then remove the old busted method | 19:48 |
| Haarg | preaction, did we ever decide how to best handle invalid GUIDs | 19:48 |
| @preaction | k, i'll get that done today or tomorrow | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | what's going on in WebGUI these days? | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | uh WebGUI 8, that is | 19:48 |
| @preaction | Haarg: no we didn't. because the question remains about custom code | 19:49 |
| @preaction | 8 is waiting for me really, i've been busy / lazy | 19:49 |
| @preaction | i'm merging 7.9 again, and then i'm pushing all my getEditForm changes | 19:49 |
| Haarg | custom code and stuff in the db kind of | 19:50 |
| @preaction | then we have to get ready for the Grand Show in two months | 19:50 |
| @preaction | yeah | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | 6 weeks | 19:50 |
| Haarg | the GUID thing probably needs to go into 7.10 | 19:50 |
| @preaction | can't we hash the ID (hash the hash...) for the "Sphinx ID"? | 19:50 |
| @preaction | yeah, it should be vetted | 19:51 |
| Haarg | we could, but it's kind of a shitty way to handle it since we should just be able to use the GUID | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | would it be easier if we switched to hexIds everywhere? | 19:52 |
| Haarg | no | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | people are less likely to try and forge them | 19:52 |
| @preaction | but there is no better way: assets have a way to be inserted in upgrades with a given GUID, but otherwise it's the programmer giving us a GUID | 19:53 |
| Haarg | because the problem ids don't have valid hex ids | 19:53 |
| @preaction | no, the problem is "PBAsset0000000000000001" | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, PBAsset\d+$ | 19:53 |
| Haarg | i guess we need to decide if we can rely on the GUIDs having uniform randomness | 19:53 |
| @preaction | and then "PBAsset00000000000000002" <- the first significant bits aren't unique enough for the smaller Sphinx ID | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | in other words, just about 1/3-1/2 of them | 19:53 |
| @preaction | and the last significant bits are, but only for those. what about others? | 19:54 |
| @preaction | yeah, and not just assets, groups, workflows, activities, users, etc... | 19:54 |
| @preaction | oh, wait, assets are the only ones we care about | 19:54 |
| Haarg | if we don't want to rely on that, we need to either hash the id, or otherwise combine the entire thing | 19:54 |
| @preaction | we're not going to index workflow activities :p | 19:55 |
| Haarg | like, if we wanted something faster than a hash (although it probably isn't important) we could xor the first and second half | 19:55 |
| @preaction | we know already we can't rely on it having enough significant bits, unless we change them | 19:55 |
| Haarg | but that wouldn't work for the busted IDs either | 19:56 |
| Haarg | the other problem is that if we don't use the GUID as it is exactly we have to store the search ID anyway | 19:57 |
| @preaction | i think if we limit it to assets, and can scan custom assets and give the author a problem report (and offer to switch to a valid GUID for them if they update their code with the new one), it would work | 19:58 |
| Haarg | i think it's going to have to be compatible with 7.x though | 19:59 |
| @preaction | no, if we can calculate it from the search ID and keep the asset ID in a field in sphinx, it'll be fine. the only time we need the search ID is when WebGUI is telling sphinx what's up. otherwise sphinx will give us back the real asset ID | 19:59 |
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| @preaction | at least, from what i understood of the presentation | 20:00 |
| +perlDreamer | what is the "Sphinx ID"? | 20:00 |
| Haarg | ah yeah | 20:00 |
| @preaction | in which we can't break stuff as drastically as this would... | 20:00 |
| Haarg | was forgetting the extra fields | 20:00 |
| @preaction | the Sphinx search engine requires a numeric ID | 20:00 |
| @preaction | a small numeric ID | 20:01 |
| Haarg | sphinx uses a 64-bit id | 20:01 |
| Haarg | which is half of our GUID | 20:01 |
| Haarg | for anything generated by Session::Id, we can just use half of the GUID | 20:01 |
| +perlDreamer | but it's not numeric | 20:01 |
| Haarg | but that doesn't work for manually constructed IDs | 20:02 |
| Haarg | yes it is | 20:02 |
| Haarg | it's just a 128-bit number encoded as base64 | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | let me be specific, $session->id doesn't currently provide a way to get things with only numbers | 20:07 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0e91941 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add index to userLoginLog so that DeleteExpiredSessions can scale. Fixes bug #11708 - http://bit.ly/aJp0w3 | 20:09 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rffe9b8a / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add index to userLoginLog so that DeleteExpiredSessions can scale. Fixes bug #11708 - http://bit.ly/cqGxmf | 20:10 |
| Haarg | no, but perl can't handle numbers that big well anyway | 20:10 |
| Haarg | so since we only need to convert from GUID to search id | 20:11 |
| Haarg | we can either hash the GUID and use that | 20:12 |
| Haarg | or try to detect a 'real' guid, hash if not, and use that | 20:12 |
| @preaction | considering it only needs to be used by WebGUI::Search, sounds like a plan | 20:13 |
| Haarg | the problem with the latter is if someone manually constructs an ID that appears valid but isn't random | 20:13 |
| @preaction | can't save against malice | 20:14 |
| Haarg | which would you prefer? | 20:14 |
| @preaction | the solution that requires the least amount of WTFs | 20:14 |
| @preaction | i think the "detect valid and hash if not" will work fine | 20:15 |
| Haarg | probably the former then | 20:15 |
| Haarg | ok | 20:15 |
| @preaction | then we can push "require valid" to a later date | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Valid is great for WebGUI 8! | 20:15 |
| Haarg | yeah, that is the main advantage of it. makes it simpler to enforce valid GUIDs at some point. | 20:16 |
| @preaction | damnit. my proxy must be lagging me... because freenode kept killing me for "Excess Flood" because Colloquy just has to flood the damned server... | 20:16 |
| Haarg | although the code for it will be more complicated | 20:16 |
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| Haarg | (but not by much) | 20:16 |
| @preaction | and we can document the kludge and remove it later | 20:17 |
| Haarg | we could also guard against less than random IDs | 20:18 |
| Haarg | by xoring the first and second half. not sure if that is a good idea or not | 20:18 |
| Haarg | seems to just be adding complexity that if we were going to do we might as well go with the hash everything route | 20:19 |
| @preaction | perhaps when we drink our own kool-aid we can tell if it'll be necessary? | 20:19 |
| Haarg | i suppose | 20:20 |
| Haarg | i should write up a script to do some checks for this stuff | 20:20 |
| Haarg | and you can run it on alumni or something | 20:20 |
| Haarg | that site probably has more of this kind of thing than any other webgui site | 20:21 |
| @preaction | pb.com or webgui.org might actually have more assets | 20:21 |
| Haarg | more assets | 20:21 |
| @preaction | but yeah, alumni probably has more violations | 20:21 |
| Haarg | but they are all going to have valid GUIDs | 20:22 |
| @preaction | damn i hate having my name attached to some of that code :p | 20:22 |
| Haarg | but it would be good to run it on both | 20:22 |
| @preaction | ooh! With Asset Dispatch, the Thingy could be made to suck less! | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | is that an actual reduction in suckage, or just the appearance of it? | 20:23 |
| @preaction | each Thing could have a URL component, and even each item | 20:23 |
| @preaction | people don't like ?func=viewThing ?func=viewThingItem, etc... | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | makes sense, kind of like ?func=viewRss | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | the old RSS asset was not good, but it did do that right | 20:26 |
| @preaction | exactly, but we could do it without another asset. one asset -> one url is a horrible paradigm | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | with the many to 1 paradigm, you could almost throw out the redirect asset | 20:28 |
| @preaction | or the Shortcut asset | 20:28 |
| +perlDreamer | no, the Shortcut asset does too many other things | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | like overrides | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | and Dashboard stuff | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | and whatever the Shortcut by metadata stuff is | 20:29 |
| @preaction | well, shortcuts could work differently. it could proxy the dispatch() so that a shortcutted asset does what it should (Collab Thread/Post keep top-level shortcut URL, for example) | 20:30 |
| @preaction | a major problem people have with the shortcuts, gone | 20:31 |
| Haarg | preaction, if you have a chance, i could use some feedback on a few 8 issues: http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11668 http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11664 http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11685 http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11706 | 20:31 |
| @preaction | k, one sec | 20:32 |
| Haarg | it should be possible to have a shortcut load the original asset object, then mix in a trait | 20:33 |
| Haarg | that would adjust its behavior in whatever ways are needed | 20:33 |
| Haarg | so it would essentially be the original asset, but with the needed changes applied | 20:33 |
| Haarg | instead of the other way around | 20:33 |
| @preaction | Haarg: what do you need for the Dist::Zilla feedback? it all sounds good to me | 20:38 |
| Haarg | actually i don't think i meant to link that one | 20:38 |
| Haarg | also, do we care about sql logging aside from the debug panel? | 20:41 |
| @preaction | not really, but to be honest i don't even care about it in there | 20:42 |
| @preaction | it's not a way i debug, but it may be for someone else | 20:42 |
| @preaction | but i don't think we need to send that crap to Log4Perl | 20:42 |
| @preaction | (or i don't know what you're talking about) | 20:43 |
| Haarg | it's mainly a sanity check for me | 20:43 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * ra05692c / (4 files in 4 dirs): Note in several packages when the gateway URL is appended to input. Fixes bug #11621 - http://bit.ly/bBhVg5 | 20:43 |
| Haarg | that was basically the question | 20:43 |
| Haarg | log4perl logging is mostly useless imo | 20:43 |
| Haarg | if you need that kind of logging mysql can do it for you | 20:44 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5ced1c3 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Note in several packages when the gateway URL is appended to input. Fixes bug #11621 - http://bit.ly/aXOkcH | 20:44 |
| @preaction | well, that may be a function of how we use it | 20:44 |
| Haarg | but the debug output has shown me problems a few times | 20:44 |
| @preaction | it does help me find massive amounts of redirects, not using FileUrl macro, broken SC feeds, and some other stuff | 20:44 |
| Haarg | like when we started querying user profile default values for every call | 20:45 |
| @preaction | ohh, you mean SQL logging to log4perl | 20:45 |
| Haarg | i specifically meant for sql | 20:45 |
| Haarg | the log4perl output generally isn't useful for dev for me, but certainly for server admin stuff | 20:46 |
| Haarg | anyway, i think i can fix my mysqltrace module to at least be usable | 20:46 |
| Haarg | or maybe not | 20:47 |
| Haarg | bleh | 20:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | patspam, have you seen this: http://search.cpan.org/~shiriru/Javascript-Closure-1.00/lib/Javascript/Closure.pm ? | 21:56 |
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| Haarg | preaction, updated http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/11706 (a bunch of the other stuff i'd like to do is dependent on how that is handled) | 22:02 |
| Haarg | perlDreamer, do you see any problem with removing previousVersion.sql? | 22:06 |
| +perlDreamer | what's the plan for testing upgrades without it? | 22:07 |
| +perlDreamer | what benefit does removing it provide? | 22:07 |
| +perlDreamer | In light of all you young advocates of change, you leave me no choice but to the be the Old Stick in the Mud | 22:07 |
| Haarg | git checkout -- share/create.sql | 22:07 |
| Haarg | the only reason it exists is to duplicate what version control already provides | 22:08 |
| @preaction | if WGD or WG::Command does the checkout for you, then why not? | 22:09 |
| Haarg | the reason it was created btw was so that if a dev updated create.sql in svn, the changes would be ignored | 22:10 |
| @preaction | which sounds like, again, a duplication of a VCS features | 22:11 |
| Haarg | exactly | 22:11 |
| Haarg | and silent failure is bad policy | 22:12 |
| @preaction | it's also convenient, but if we can hide the inconvenience then i'm cool with it | 22:12 |
| +perlDreamer | if someone manually changed create.sql now, we'd revert the change and scold them | 22:13 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't see any problems with removing it | 22:13 |
| +perlDreamer | I would really like to see reasons for all these proposals being plainly stated up front, though. | 22:13 |
| @preaction | agreed. the reasons for things are usually never apparent to me | 22:15 |
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| Haarg | the reason for most things is 'remove cruft' or 'remove boilerplate' | 22:15 |
| @preaction | and i agree with those reasons, just easier for you to say that than for me to have to figure it out by code-diving or brain-diving | 22:16 |
| Haarg | yeah, i should probably do a better job of that. half of the stuff i'm just throwing on the list so i don't forget it. | 22:16 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * rda9517a / lib/WGDev/Version.pm : fix exception for db file version check - http://bit.ly/cehYYy | 22:17 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * rbadde24 / lib/WGDev/Command/Util.pm : fix documentation for util command - http://bit.ly/bOjCfy | 22:17 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * r79c7c81 / lib/WGDev/Command/For/Each.pm : fix for-each command and add better docs - http://bit.ly/aJnFiS | 22:17 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * r0323c5b / (3 files in 2 dirs): follow WebGUI 8 API for DB script - http://bit.ly/cWE4Xq | 22:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we need a wgdev plugin that automatically downloads the latest wgd and builds the bundled app. | 22:18 |
| +perlDreamer | that way, on a server where it is deployed in a home directory you could say wgd refresh-self, or something similar | 22:18 |
| @preaction | well, wgd will eventually be included with WebGUI as WebGUI::Command | 22:19 |
| +perlDreamer | in 7? | 22:19 |
| Haarg | 8 | 22:19 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know about you guys, but in my job I'll be supporting wg7 websites for a while yet | 22:20 |
| @preaction | well, whenever really | 22:20 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r80d62fc / (4 files in 3 dirs): move create.sql file and remove previousVersion.sql - http://bit.ly/cZxWad | 22:21 |
| Haarg | WebGUI::Command as i see it will depend pretty heavily on WebGUI::Paths and WebGUI::Site/new session stuff if i get that built | 22:21 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, is t/Paths.t passing on your box? | 22:25 |
| * Haarg is a bad person | 22:26 | |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r1b8b90c / t/Paths.t : fix WebGUI::Paths test - http://bit.ly/9oYCH3 | 22:26 |
| +perlDreamer | Repentance is the first step to forgiveness and reconciliation ;) | 22:27 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I'd like to re-release 7.8.13 to fix an upgrade bug for people who want to upgrade to beta | 22:27 |
| @preaction | so frank's bug was real? | 22:28 |
| +perlDreamer | not so far :/ | 22:28 |
| +perlDreamer | I found this bug in 7.8.13 which prevents me from going farther | 22:28 |
| @preaction | then what's the problem? | 22:28 |
| +perlDreamer | There's a check performed to make sure that a workflow activity isn't added twice to the Daily Workflow | 22:29 |
| +perlDreamer | it uses getActivities to get all the activities | 22:29 |
| +perlDreamer | but one of them returns undef | 22:29 |
| +perlDreamer | that, in and of itself, is a problem | 22:29 |
| +perlDreamer | but the upgrade script should catch it, say something useful, and then die | 22:29 |
| @preaction | so there's an undef, in the config file | 22:29 |
| +perlDreamer | no, it would be from WebGUI::Workflow::Activity->new() | 22:30 |
| @preaction | the upgrade worked just fine for me, my sites were on 7.7.30, now they're on 7.9.8 | 22:30 |
| +perlDreamer | $workflow->getActivities() | 22:30 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm using a customer dump to duplicate khenn's bug | 22:30 |
| @preaction | so a workflow has an activity that doesn't exist anymore | 22:31 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what it sounds like | 22:31 |
| +perlDreamer | it still needs to die, but it should die nicely | 22:31 |
| +perlDreamer | broken workflow activities are bad | 22:31 |
| @preaction | yes, historically we've never handled that situation well | 22:31 |
| +perlDreamer | I guess it's a pretty rare case | 22:32 |
| +perlDreamer | but it'll need to be fixed for the horde of people on the stable track | 22:32 |
| @preaction | i'm all for fixing it, just not so much on the re-releasing | 22:32 |
| +perlDreamer | anyone who is a beta early adopter is probably smart enough to work around it | 22:33 |
| @preaction | though why have we been against patching old builds? | 22:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | I don't understand that last statement, dude. | 22:33 |
| @preaction | we don't re-release (which really means patching an old build and uploading the new tarball) | 22:34 |
| @preaction | but why? | 22:34 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know. We've released patches to fix problems in the past against old versions | 22:35 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe that's the better solution | 22:35 |
| +perlDreamer | It must be lunctime | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | this dump references custom code which I don't have | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | without a core snapshot, this is worthless | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | grrr | 22:37 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * r833a08a / (MANIFEST.SKIP lib/WGDev/Command/Upgrade.pm): add rudimentary self-upgrade command - http://bit.ly/atVSXq | 23:12 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * r0fe2cb3 / (4 files in 4 dirs): update changes file and version - http://bit.ly/bUtzU4 | 23:12 |
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| Haarg | perlDreamer, curl -O http://haarg.org/wgd && chmod +x wgd && wgd upgrade | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, you are awesome | 23:23 |
| Haarg | the upgrade command only works with the self-contained version | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the only way that it makes sense | 23:27 |
| @preaction | the EMSSubmission test fails right? | 23:30 |
| Haarg | bleh. just noticed that fatpacker breaks wgd's command list. | 23:32 |
| Haarg | and i can't really think of a solution for that | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, yeah | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | we need in-memory assets for that one to work | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | since it needs not only the form field, but the default value | 23:34 |
| @preaction | uh, have we been updating the upgrade script? | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, and no | 23:35 |
| @preaction | or wait, i should've merged ... wait | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | :) | 23:36 |
| @preaction | we can't merge with 8 until a release is made | 23:36 |
| @preaction | because that updates create.sql | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: prove output from my box: http://pastie.org/1041501 | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | InOutBoard has a wonky test | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Wednesday's merge will fix that finally | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | t/i18n/template.t needs wgd to work in 8 | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | Search.t is some issue with utf8 on my laptop | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | POD.t, Form*, EMSSubmission are realy failurs | 23:37 |
| @preaction | right, which means i broke Template with my merge, but as mentioned, i can't merge 7.9 into 8 until we release | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | Path.t was fixed today | 23:37 |
| @preaction | because of create.sql. right now it doesn't have attachmentsJson for Template, and i can't put it in the upgrade script | 23:38 |
| @preaction | we have a 7.8 release this week, correct? | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | no, 7.9 this week | 23:38 |
| @preaction | then i guess i'll wait until you release and merge 7.9 again | 23:40 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * r2c02c41 / (2 files in 2 dirs): rename self upgrade command - http://bit.ly/9GeX2P | 23:41 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * rfbbd2c9 / lib/WGDev/Command/Self/Upgrade.pm : fix self upgrade package name - http://bit.ly/bRSpyk | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I was planning on merging on Wednesday morn. Is that early enough for you, or do you need it sooner? | 23:41 |
| Haarg | perlDreamer, i change the upgrade command for wgd to self-upgrade | 23:42 |
| @preaction | i already have it all done up to Friday, so I might as well just finish it myself Wednesday morning | 23:42 |
| +perlDreamer | that's more descriptive | 23:42 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, preaction, you da man for da merge | 23:43 |
| * perlDreamer takes a bike riding break, back in 25 | 23:45 | |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * rf50edcb / MANIFEST.SKIP : update MANIFEST.SKIP for new file name - http://bit.ly/beGjKV | 23:45 |
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| @preaction | yay for another "focus doesn't follow eyeball" failure! | 23:52 |
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| --- Day changed Tue Jul 13 2010 | ||
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| @preaction | two questions: are subpackages a necessary feature? (a package within a package). is the isPackage flag necessary and would a /packages top-level folder work better? | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd rather have an isPackage marker, than a location | 00:14 |
| +perlDreamer | which, I think, makes the nested packages question moot, since they can exist without any problem. | 00:14 |
| Haarg | i'd rather merge the concept with prototypes | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | how would that work with a hierarchial package, Haarg? | 00:15 |
| @preaction | merging with prototypes is a good idea | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | would you only get to edit the top asset? | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | or all of them 1 by 1? | 00:16 |
| @preaction | deploying a package would have an intermediate step perhaps? allowing you to edit before the full deploy happens? | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | but what if you want to deploy a large package/prototype, like that school district? | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | they deploy an entire school site | 00:17 |
| @preaction | i don't see how that's a problem | 00:18 |
| +perlDreamer | you can deploy a package with 40 assets in it | 00:18 |
| +perlDreamer | then 2 or 3 people can work on customizing them | 00:18 |
| +perlDreamer | prototypes force 1 person to edit them, 1 by 1 | 00:19 |
| Haarg | import/export is completely separate from the package flag. i think it would make more sense to move the deploy feature into prototypes. there are two things to handle at that point though. deep vs shallow copy, and whether to show an edit screen. | 00:19 |
| @preaction | i'm saying there's a pre-deploy phase where you can edit things, which is what a prototype is, then you can edit things normally, like a package | 00:20 |
| @preaction | a prototype is a package you can edit before you deploy. or a package is a prototype you can't edit before you deploy | 00:20 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * re0a6602 / lib/WGDev/Asset.pm : make edit command work in WebGUI 8 - http://bit.ly/aDXIDi | 00:21 |
| Haarg | perlDreamer, when you get a chance, try that ^ out | 00:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I can do that now | 00:21 |
| +perlDreamer | since there's no way I'll be testing khenn's upgrade problem | 00:21 |
| @preaction | webgui 8 has a way to determine what types of content can be added to a given asset, correct? | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | so does 7 | 00:22 |
| @preaction | what if the new content menu only showed what you could add? or said "no content can be added here" or something | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | that would be good | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | similarly with Clipboard | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | anything that can't be pasted should be grayed out/disabled | 00:23 |
| @preaction | right. if a piece cannot be added, strikethrough or grey it out or something | 00:24 |
| +perlDreamer | It should blink! | 00:25 |
| Haarg | perlDreamer, i got a response on JavaScript::Packer. should be fixed soon. | 00:25 |
| +perlDreamer | nice! | 00:25 |
| +perlDreamer | There are lots of CSS and JS packers in CPAN | 00:25 |
| +perlDreamer | but no HTML packers | 00:25 |
| +perlDreamer | someone should write the appropriate HTML::Minifier::XS | 00:26 |
| +perlDreamer | that dispatches to {JavaScript,CSS}::Minifier::XS | 00:26 |
| Haarg | no response on the JavaScript::Minifier::XS bug | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | wgd edit works | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | wgd package -u doesn't | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | but that's only a nicety | 00:27 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0fe3887 / share/upgrades/7.9.8-8.0.0/root_import_default-asset-subscription.wgpkg : Fix the namespace in the subscription template. - http://bit.ly/clQA9l | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Updated the 8 test ticket, too. | 00:33 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * rb256e0a / lib/WGDev/Command/Package.pm : fix -u flag for package command in WebGUI 8 - http://bit.ly/c7EYJ5 | 00:34 |
| +perlDreamer | yup, that works | 00:37 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re66be2a / (5 files in 5 dirs): Add a minimum height to the Carousel due to further rendering problems. Fixes bug #11457. - http://bit.ly/dCYd4g | 00:50 |
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| @scrottie | preaction, got your email. | 00:56 |
| @scrottie | meant to do a less quick flyby here. arg. | 00:59 |
| @scrottie | today kind of spiraled out of control. | 01:00 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r7cedb14 / (6 files in 6 dirs): Add a minimum height to the Carousel due to further rendering problems. Fixes bug #11457. - http://bit.ly/cX2Rdz | 01:00 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r848e903 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move thingy search template to the correct location. - http://bit.ly/9nhSeI | 01:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | off for errands, be back later | 01:18 |
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| @preaction | scrottie: no worries. there isn't much more explanation required, just need to keep the 7.x buglist clear and then work on whatever WebGUI 8 tickets meet your fancy | 01:32 |
| @preaction | colin says the buglist is almost clear, but we're still going to give time for new features before we go stable | 01:33 |
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| wgGuest02 | Hi, have a question about installing CPAN modules. I upgraded to 7.9.8-beta (RHEL5/WRE 0.9.3). Installing "CHI" and "Cache::FastMmap" via testEnvironment.pl gives errors... | 01:55 |
| -!- wgGuest02 is now known as jmack | 01:56 | |
| jmack | Something goes wrong... busy with it for 3-4 hours now | 01:56 |
| jmack | I alwys used to install them manually or via testEnvironment. Always without errors.. someone has a suggestion? | 01:58 |
| @preaction | CHI in RedHat needs Test::Log::Dispatch iirc | 02:02 |
| @preaction | otherwise you can force install them from the cpan shell | 02:03 |
| @preaction | otherwise you can add WebGUI::Cache::CHI to sbin/preload.exclude and skip the requirements | 02:04 |
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| jmack | Hi preaction.. it seems something else goes wrong. Can't even install this module. CPAN[1]> install force Test::Log::Dispatch | 02:26 |
| @preaction | force install Test::Log::Dispatch | 02:26 |
| @preaction | what's the error you get? | 02:26 |
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| jmack | Is there a way to start from scratch with CPAN modules? JSWATX/Test-Log-Dispatch-0.0.3.tar.gz: make_test FAILED but failure ignored because 'force' in effect | 02:36 |
| jmack | Installing cpan-modules went always very smooth until I upgraded to RHEL 5.5 | 02:37 |
| @preaction | jmack: that "error" said it succeeded. | 02:38 |
| jmack | Try now: force install CHI and see what it does? | 02:39 |
| jmack | I will take a long time... if I follow all requirements?!? | 02:40 |
| jmack | CHI same as Test::Log::Dispatch. But when force install Cache::FastMmap, it says: Make had returned bad status, install seems unpossible. Failed during this command ROBM/Cache-FastMmap-1.35.tar.gz : make NO | 02:44 |
| jmack | Somehow I get the idea that Redhats perl is conflicting. Had this 1-2 years back as well. Although during cpan install I see path like /wre/prereqs etc.. (have put setenvironment in the bash_profile) | 02:52 |
| +perlDreamer | jmack, did you run setenvironement.sh? | 02:55 |
| jmack | yes | 02:55 |
| jmack | manually and in the root bash_profile | 02:56 |
| +perlDreamer | what happens when you try to install Cache::FastMmap by hand, using the CPAN shell? | 02:57 |
| jmack | All last install actions above I did by hand. perl -MCPAN -e shell | 02:58 |
| +perlDreamer | well, then at some point in the terminal history it will tell you why it failed | 02:59 |
| +perlDreamer | you may be missing some memcached devel RPM | 02:59 |
| +perlDreamer | or it could be a missing dependency | 02:59 |
| jmack | I started with testEnvironment.. thats where it started. Is there a way back? Can I copy and paste some directory from a backup? and start over again? | 03:01 |
| +perlDreamer | Aside from an operating system backup, there's no way to start over again | 03:02 |
| +perlDreamer | you need to fix the current problem | 03:02 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfd153b8 / (11 files in 3 dirs): Always use good macro form when using the Extras macro. Fixes bug #11455. - http://bit.ly/b1Kwqa | 03:14 |
| +perlDreamer | After fixing the bad Extras macros, /me makes dinner | 03:15 |
| jmack | @PerlDreamer, can Redhats SELinux have to do with it? It's not disabled.. but permissive. | 03:21 |
| jmack | This file was blocked earlier /data/wre/prereqs/modules/mod_perl.so (now after some commands it shouldn't?!?) | 03:23 |
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| +perlDreamer | jmack, I've used Fedora with permissive SELinux before, and it worked fine | 03:44 |
| jmack | Ok.. I'll look tomorrow further to it. See if I can get back to the point where it went wrong... Tnx for the help! | 03:56 |
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| elnino | good morning! | 08:14 |
| elnino | does the store handel "e downloads"? | 08:14 |
| elnino | s/handel/handle | 08:16 |
| elnino | customer wants limited access to the download they purchased, and/or timed access to download the product they purchase, or even perhaps, the product emailed to the customer. | 08:17 |
| +perlDreamer | elnino, see if you can run a workflow when they checkout | 08:20 |
| +perlDreamer | have that workflow add them to a group, with expire time of 15 minutes | 08:20 |
| elnino | oh. that's clever. | 08:21 |
| +perlDreamer | alternately, the workflow could email a file | 08:21 |
| +perlDreamer | but I don't think we have that activity yet | 08:21 |
| +perlDreamer | how are you with flash content? | 08:21 |
| elnino | adobe? I don't. I use powerbullet instead. And I'm not terribly creative when it comes to graphics and moving things around on the screen | 08:22 |
| elnino | sometimes I do get a creative idea. so it depends. | 08:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I have a flash file that I can't make go | 08:23 |
| +perlDreamer | helping someone move to WebGUI | 08:23 |
| elnino | OH I see. | 08:23 |
| elnino | I had the same problem. | 08:23 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI's default flash templates aren't doing anything useful | 08:24 |
| elnino | it was weird. I used my own object code and it didn't work. but then I simply loaded up as a file, and it worked. | 08:24 |
| elnino | I think I hvae my own flasah template. | 08:24 |
| elnino | I don't remember who's it was. | 08:24 |
| elnino | I can give it to you. it worked for my flash | 08:25 |
| +perlDreamer | please! | 08:25 |
| elnino | I feel like I've been gone so long... should I use pastebin? | 08:26 |
| +perlDreamer | please | 08:26 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, where have you been? | 08:26 |
| elnino | Oh, we sold our house, bought a forclosed one. | 08:26 |
| * elnino shakes her head | 08:26 | |
| * elnino sighs. | 08:26 | |
| +perlDreamer | lots of fixup work? | 08:26 |
| * elnino is very tired. | 08:26 | |
| elnino | yes. more than I anticipated. | 08:27 |
| elnino | that was two months ago | 08:27 |
| * elnino looks for the template | 08:27 | |
| elnino | oh. this isn't my template. but it works. Mine is from 7.7.27 | 08:30 |
| elnino | you want it still? | 08:30 |
| +perlDreamer | please, I'm stumped | 08:30 |
| +perlDreamer | paste at webgui.pastebin.com | 08:30 |
| elnino | ok. so I did make a modification, so I'll give you 7.7.27 and mine. I have no idea what the difference is. | 08:31 |
| * elnino wishes there was a diff utility in wg | 08:31 | |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, that would be nice | 08:32 |
| elnino | 7.7.27: http://webgui.pastebin.com/0R2ByD3k | 08:34 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, I'm very familiar with the guts of that one | 08:35 |
| +perlDreamer | I have no idea how it works, but it's in the core | 08:35 |
| elnino | oh. I modified the size of the flash. that's the only difference. | 08:35 |
| elnino | between my template and 7.7.27s | 08:35 |
| elnino | and that doesn't work for you? | 08:36 |
| +perlDreamer | nope | 08:36 |
| elnino | hmm | 08:36 |
| elnino | ah. hold on. | 08:36 |
| elnino | ok. so you've come acrss what I've come accross. | 08:38 |
| elnino | And I have NO idea what the heck AC_RunActiveContent.js | 08:39 |
| +perlDreamer | me either | 08:39 |
| +perlDreamer | looks like it handles writing browser specific object code | 08:39 |
| elnino | so I rip all that out from the original site, and simply upload the flash as a file using the flash file template and it works. | 08:39 |
| elnino | so get rid of that ac_thing | 08:40 |
| elnino | I *suspect* that it is case sensitive. | 08:40 |
| elnino | the ac thing is messign thigns up. I don't know how it works on the original site, but it seems uncessary, because it works fine without it. | 08:41 |
| elnino | that's what I did. | 08:41 |
| +perlDreamer | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1278999620_282/home | 08:41 |
| +perlDreamer | no flash :( | 08:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I changed the size on the default template, too | 08:43 |
| elnino | http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1278999620_282/uploads/5d/d7/5dd7753452424d4921a7d0b8f86eeac1/slideshow.swf doesn't seem to be working. is the file being chopped? or is it my internet? | 08:44 |
| elnino | you should be able to go to it directly. | 08:44 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe it has some kind of download protection | 08:46 |
| +perlDreamer | anyway that I download that file, and upload it, I end up with badness | 08:46 |
| elnino | I went to your webgui fog site, and am attempting to access the swf file directly. it's still waiting. | 08:47 |
| elnino | the original site's original file works. So I'm thinking it's the file, nothing you're doing. | 08:47 |
| +perlDreamer | I've tried downloading the file several different ways | 08:48 |
| +perlDreamer | wget | 08:48 |
| +perlDreamer | firefox | 08:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I get the same checksum on the file every time | 08:48 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe I'll need to pull it via FTP or something | 08:49 |
| elnino | I don't know how it can have a download protection - never heard of such thing. | 08:49 |
| +perlDreamer | me either | 08:49 |
| elnino | do you want me to try? | 08:49 |
| +perlDreamer | sure! | 08:49 |
| +perlDreamer | you can use that same demo site | 08:49 |
| +perlDreamer | nuke what I put up, it's broken anyway | 08:49 |
| elnino | I'm goign to try my site... | 08:50 |
| elnino | hold on | 08:50 |
| +perlDreamer | there are 12 images in the rotation, but the downloaded flash file is only 2966 bytes | 08:52 |
| +perlDreamer | something is screwy | 08:52 |
| elnino | hmm. maybe they didn't embed the images into the flash file. | 08:53 |
| elnino | mine just sits there "waiting" | 08:53 |
| +perlDreamer | so the flash file calls back to the original server, and gets a list of images from somewhere | 08:54 |
| +perlDreamer | that would explain what's going on | 08:54 |
| +perlDreamer | the flash _is_ working, but not doing anything useful | 08:54 |
| elnino | OR.... | 08:54 |
| elnino | bummer | 08:55 |
| elnino | I thought maybe we were both seeing a animated gif and the swf NEVER worked. | 08:55 |
| +perlDreamer | that would be nice... | 08:56 |
| elnino | but I do see allowScriptAccess="sameDomain", which leads me to believe that the somethign is accessing something somewhere. | 08:56 |
| elnino | I dont' think that tag is in the flash file template | 08:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I built a custom template that calls it | 08:57 |
| +perlDreamer | and it still doesn't do anything useful | 08:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I even inlined the JS into a snippet | 08:57 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the 604 site | 08:58 |
| elnino | I've tried those too. I could never get the ac_ thing to work, but I've always been able to get the swf file to work. but you'res is a little different somehow I"m afraid. | 08:59 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 09:01 |
| elnino | well. I do need to get going. we're living with my parents untill we get this house in working order. tomorrow I'm up earily. I'm sorry to be leaving you with an unresolved problem. | 09:01 |
| +perlDreamer | re the short time download, you may have more success using a subscription asset instead of a product | 09:01 |
| +perlDreamer | since it will add a user to a group by default | 09:01 |
| elnino | hmm. true. Thanks! I ahve to read up on all this, I have much to catch up on. you guys ahve been busy with upgrades. | 09:02 |
| +perlDreamer | good night, elnino, and thanks for the help | 09:03 |
| elnino | I tried at least. thanks for the ideas - gnite | 09:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | hey, KlausH | 10:49 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm actually heading off to bed, but I wanted to say hi real quick | 10:49 |
| +perlDreamer | good night :) | 10:49 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 16:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | morning, folks | 19:03 |
| Haaarg | morning | 19:04 |
| SDuensin | hey | 19:07 |
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| scrottie | yarrr. | 19:48 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfd834a5 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Handle the case of an empty field name when adding user profile fields. Fixes bug #11715. - http://bit.ly/9QzY04 | 19:49 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1c6b269 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Handle the case of an empty field name when adding user profile fields. Fixes bug #11715. - http://bit.ly/ccVxg0 | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | ahoy, scrottie, ya scurvy dawg | 19:53 |
| @scrottie | avast ye! | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | we're quickly running out of fixable bugs | 19:54 |
| @preaction | yay! | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, will you have time to look at the code editor whitespace bug? | 19:56 |
| @preaction | not really, no. i know what the problem is, the HTML parser inside there doesn't handle whitespace | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | the external HTML parser package that we added? | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | bummer | 19:57 |
| @preaction | but i need to focus on the Admin Console, as it's the only thing about webgui 8 that any user will really care about | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll check to see if there have been any updates to the parser | 19:57 |
| @preaction | well, it's fixable, just have to fix it | 19:57 |
| @preaction | it's probably not the parser, but how i'm using it. whitespace in html is supposed to be ignored, and so i'm ignoring it. not sure if it's a stream parser that i could modify to allow whitespace in the stream or not | 20:01 |
| @preaction | but really his problem is he hasn't upgraded to the version that lets you disable the area for a little while in order to paste stuff in | 20:01 |
| +perlDreamer | there hasn't been any updates to the parser | 20:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | I did some copy and paste work last night in the editor, and it worked fine | 20:14 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe I'll test it again, more carefully, and tell him to upgrade to get the bug fixed | 20:14 |
| @preaction | it could be the IE-specific code | 20:14 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll try that, too | 20:14 |
| @preaction | the HTML parser is only really needed because IE fucks with the HTML that's pasted into a contentEditable iframe. and i mean fucks bad. | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | the only thing I hate less than IE in this job, is flash | 20:15 |
| @preaction | i swear it looks like they're trying to parse HTML with regexp, as it changes <a href="http://example.com">Some link</a> to <a href="<a href="http://example.com">http://example.com">Some Link</a> | 20:16 |
| @preaction | it's really weird | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I remember that code | 20:16 |
| @preaction | i'm sure it's for some kind of Office integration | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | tavisto: http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/mobile/07/13/iphone.4.duct.tape/index.html?hpt=Sbin | 20:22 |
| @tavisto | hah, people are still grinding on that | 20:23 |
| @tavisto | i see it on engadget, gizmodo, macrumors, and ZDnet | 20:24 |
| @tavisto | but, most people have a case on their phone anyway.... just like the previous models.... and... the phone has already been performing well in the troubled NY and SF areas... Huge improvement on preventing drop calls and voice quality..... Not to mention the iPhone's camera and screen are the #1 rated items in the smartphone world right now. So, for me.. I love my new iPhone4... with it's black bumper and Zagg invisible skin on t | 20:26 |
| @tavisto | front and back. It rocks | 20:26 |
| * perlDreamer unpacks the duct tape he'd planned on sending | 20:27 | |
| @tavisto | \ end of fanboy spewage | 20:27 |
| +perlDreamer | tavisto, I'm in an awkward situation | 20:27 |
| +perlDreamer | there aren't any other fixable bugs in WebGUI to work on | 20:28 |
| @tavisto | yeah right. | 20:28 |
| +perlDreamer | and despite beatings and threats, the online editors won't be fixed | 20:28 |
| +perlDreamer | I guess I'll have to work on CMS Matrix bugs next | 20:28 |
| @tavisto | good man | 20:28 |
| @tavisto | i sent you a few things to look at | 20:29 |
| @tavisto | i haven't had time to test/confirm them but they sound legit | 20:29 |
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| @scrottie | I'm thinking of buying an iPhone with a cracked screen off of eBay. everyone seems to have a cracked screen anyway so I thought I'd just buy it that way and save money. it's worthless as an mp3 player requiring iTunes and all but the GPS would be really handy for trips and if I jailbreak it, I think I can tether. | 20:50 |
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| @preaction | yes, Spirit lets you wirelessly jailbreak and the tether app is like $10 | 20:59 |
| @preaction | but doesn't gPod or Rhythmbox work with ipod / iphone? | 21:00 |
| +perlDreamer | Rhythmbox works on the iphone | 21:00 |
| @scrottie | that's good. but there's the danger that the next firmware update will kill that and it's really nice just to be able to rsync music. also the amp in the iPhones have no umph and battery life is terrible. | 21:03 |
| @scrottie | and the mp3 player software on the iPhone itself bangs the flash constantly with music play stats and burns them out. | 21:04 |
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| @scrottie | burns it out | 21:05 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r60a8131 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm : migrate attachments to JsonTable - http://bit.ly/bHponK | 21:13 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r65e9902 / (4 files in 4 dirs): migrate to JsonTable to edit template attachments - http://bit.ly/aJVpUq | 21:13 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r69b7fe0 / (4 files in 4 dirs): fix jsontable and use it for Calendar feeds - http://bit.ly/9a2sbP | 21:13 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell master * rab7e98d / t/Asset/Asset.t : test changes to updating serialize asset props - http://bit.ly/atK3Mk | 21:13 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell master * ref319ea / t/Asset/Asset.t : fix cleanup - http://bit.ly/dk8Mry | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, looks like it's time to update and prove | 21:16 |
| @preaction | oh, you think just because I committed something I didn't test everything? you're so mean! | 21:16 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'm right | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | syntax errors in the upgrade script | 21:17 |
| @preaction | that doesn't make you any less mean | 21:17 |
| @preaction | got it | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | you've been talking to my children, haven't you? | 21:17 |
| @preaction | don't need to, we all know how mean you are | 21:18 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell master * rf78386d / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.9.8-7.9.9.pl : fix merge - http://bit.ly/b9oF7x | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: http://gist.github.com/474282 | 21:19 |
| @preaction | fun. | 21:20 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r0b87ce3 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm : fix package import problem - http://bit.ly/bkcZBM | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | yay! upgrading works again | 21:22 |
| @preaction | oh. what about packages made with template attachments before attachmentsJson? | 21:22 |
| @preaction | gott im himmel | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, it would suck if we just broke all the packages in The Bazaar | 21:25 |
| Haaarg | or all the packages in 7.9 | 21:26 |
| @preaction | eh, nobody uses attachments | 21:26 |
| @preaction | or packing | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | or filepump | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | :( | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | if we converted the core to use them, people might start | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | that could be a fun project | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | parse the HEAD blocks for script and links, and convert them to attachments | 21:32 |
| @preaction | i had tried that in the beginning, but since it broke plainblack.com, i was told not to (when it turns out that was a bug in how i was doing it, not a problem in the packed template) | 21:33 |
| @preaction | yes, that is in the plan for the future | 21:33 |
| * SDuensin doesn't even know WTF attachments or the filepump are for. | 21:33 | |
| +perlDreamer | template attachments are a way to prevent files from being downloaded more than once | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI can keep track of which files you include, for JS and CSS | 21:34 |
| @preaction | template attachments are an explicit way of adding <link> and <script src=""> tags. that way you don't add them twice and dependencies can be calculated for future use | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | but sticking script and link tags into the head breaks that | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | so template attachments fixes that | 21:34 |
| SDuensin | Are these in some of those document things anywhere? :-) | 21:34 |
| @preaction | so when we move to CDN stuff, it'll be easy to make CDN links from those attachments | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | file pump takes that concept in a different direction | 21:34 |
| @preaction | probably not | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | file pump is documented on the wiki | 21:34 |
| SDuensin | Could be why nobody uses it. | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | so I'll let you read about it there | 21:35 |
| SDuensin | I can do that. | 21:35 |
| @preaction | filepump takes a bunch of attachments and concatenates them together so they only require one http request to grab | 21:35 |
| * SDuensin is currently VERY bandwidth challenged though. | 21:35 | |
| +perlDreamer | and it also minimizes them | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | strips out comments and whitespace | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, prove says "You did good" | 21:36 |
| @preaction | it says for me that t/Operation/Auth.t fails | 21:36 |
| @preaction | and t/Search/Index.t has a bad plan | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | regarding search, you have two problems | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | your mysql is not setup correctly for search | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | and the skip says to skip two tests, but there's only one | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | ft_min_word_len needs to be 2 | 21:39 |
| @preaction | ah | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | I fixed the skip | 21:40 |
| @preaction | i believe i've fixed the Operation/Auth.t test too. wasn't using ->originalConfig when changing the config file | 21:40 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb24f73f / t/Search/Index.t : Fix the plan for skipping tests when ideographic search won't work. - http://bit.ly/c60WP7 | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | originalConfig won't be necessary in 8 | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg fixed it so that it creates a temporary, throwaway config file that can be hacked ad nauseum | 21:41 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rb8559a5 / t/Search/Index.t : Fix the plan for skipping tests when ideographic search won't work. - http://bit.ly/9zlUD8 | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | without affecting the original, source config file | 21:41 |
| @preaction | yeah, i had thought that was in 7.9 too | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | it didn't work well | 21:41 |
| Haaarg | we tried to stick it in | 21:41 |
| @preaction | ah | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I couldn't make it work, so it got reverted | 21:41 |
| Haaarg | but 7.x assumes you can get the config by just using the bare filename | 21:42 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r129251f / t/Operation/Auth.t : fix test to clean up config properly - http://bit.ly/cksfh7 | 21:42 |
| Haaarg | we probably could have made it work actually | 21:42 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell master * rb4f47db / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm : read template attachments from prior versions - http://bit.ly/aONMqq | 21:42 |
| Haaarg | by sticking the temp files in the etc directory | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I had thought that you didn't do that in the first place because it wasn't safe to assume that the user could write there | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | but tests are for devs | 21:43 |
| SDuensin | Trix are for kids. | 21:43 |
| SDuensin | Sorry. I'm _really_ bored. | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | and Kicks are for Trids, silly Rabbi | 21:44 |
| Haaarg | do you think it is worth making a separate module to automatically find t/lib or should i just stick it in WebGUI::Test after moving it to lib? | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | I still think it's working making a separate module | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | besides, you can always use some more CPAN cred, right? | 21:45 |
| Haaarg | maybe, but then i have to find a name for it | 21:46 |
| @preaction | TestLib :p | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | tlib | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | like blib, but for tests | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | use tlib; | 21:46 |
| Haaarg | lower case = no | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | but it's a pragma! | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, in WGDev, how are dependencies specified? | 21:48 |
| Haaarg | dependancies for what? | 21:48 |
| +perlDreamer | App::FatPacker | 21:49 |
| Haaarg | still not quite following you | 21:49 |
| Haaarg | i don't pack any dependancies | 21:50 |
| +perlDreamer | but I couldn't build a packed wgd without | 21:50 |
| +perlDreamer | perl Build distexec didn't work | 21:50 |
| Haaarg | ah | 21:50 |
| Haaarg | distexec is a special case, mainly meant for me | 21:50 |
| Haaarg | so there is no real place to put it | 21:50 |
| Haaarg | probably worth having a better error message though | 21:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I have that extra command module for doing pre-release package checks | 21:51 |
| +perlDreamer | and I've convinced myself that pushrelease needs to be a wgd command, too | 21:51 |
| +perlDreamer | because it's smart enough to figure out which branch and version to use | 21:51 |
| Haaarg | i'm probably going to have to steal the code from fatpacker and modify it | 21:53 |
| Haaarg | annoying | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | speaking of annoying... | 22:00 |
| +perlDreamer | ./wgd self-upgrade | 22:00 |
| +perlDreamer | No WebGUI root directory available. | 22:00 |
| Haaarg | oop | 22:00 |
| +perlDreamer | did that on a site where the user does not have a WEBGUI_CONFIG or .wgdev | 22:00 |
| +perlDreamer | and, in the POD s/wgd upgrade/wgd self-upgrade/ | 22:01 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * rde28c82 / lib/WGDev/Command/Self/Upgrade.pm : no root needed for self-upgrade - http://bit.ly/dCLk5G | 22:03 |
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| * perlDreamer takes a lunch break to feed to critters | 22:27 | |
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| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * r19d33c6 / (.gitignore MANIFEST.SKIP inc/WGDev/Builder.pm): just use "wgd" for distexec script name - http://bit.ly/dCDNkf | 22:38 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * rd063c74 / (inc/WGDev/Builder.pm lib/WGDev/Command.pm): fix command list for distexec script - http://bit.ly/doNdJ3 | 22:38 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * r2826eb2 / lib/WGDev/Command/Self/Upgrade.pm : correct self-upgrade docs - http://bit.ly/btiXEN | 22:38 |
| @preaction | did we write the Accordian Menu for YUI? | 22:42 |
| @preaction | if we did, I'm rewriting it. if we didn't, I may rewrite it anyway. | 22:42 |
| @preaction | i love how it captures every click everywhere. | 22:42 |
| @preaction | i love how it doesn't really allow multiple instances | 22:43 |
| @preaction | actually, looks like it captures every mouseover and mouseout too | 22:43 |
| @preaction | which might explain why the debugger goes wonky on me a lot | 22:43 |
| Haaarg | as in the menu used for the admin bar? | 22:45 |
| @preaction | yes | 22:45 |
| Haaarg | jt used some stuff he found online and hacked it together | 22:45 |
| @preaction | great | 22:46 |
| @preaction | http://blog.davglass.com/files/yui/tab4/ <- better? completely using YUI's TabView and some custom CSS + animations | 22:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | hold on a sec, preaction. Isn't that the same guy who wrote editor? | 23:07 |
| @preaction | yes, Dav Glass | 23:07 |
| +perlDreamer | the same editor that gives us fits in the code-editor? | 23:08 |
| @preaction | in his defense, it's because Editor isn't very robust. that example isn't in yui core, and TabView isn't his code | 23:08 |
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| --- Day changed Wed Jul 14 2010 | ||
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| @preaction | i like how POD is built-in to Perl, even if it kinda sucks. other languages you need to go look for a doc builder, and then you have to pick the right one | 00:03 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r10e4afa / (2 files in 2 dirs): Manually constructed URL's have to manually URI encode parameters. Fixes bug #11718. - http://bit.ly/cUem8Z | 01:08 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfd394db / (2 files in 2 dirs): Manually constructed URL's have to manually URI encode parameters. Fixes bug #11718. - http://bit.ly/cnooVX | 01:10 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbcecfec / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade package to the right location. - http://bit.ly/9ogVX1 | 01:10 |
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| * scrottie tries to figure out how to link to an asset (HTML a href style) from a SQL report | 01:29 | |
| @preaction | if you have the URL, you can use the gateway macro: ^/(assetUrl); <- that's the most correct method | 01:31 |
| @scrottie | trying to go the other way... URL from an assetId | 01:32 |
| @scrottie | but let me look at that | 01:33 |
| @preaction | join the assetData table, only real way: JOIN assetData USING (assetId, revisionDate) ... GROUP BY (assetId) HAVING MAX(revisionDate) | 01:33 |
| @scrottie | oh, heh, url is right there. duh. thanks. | 01:34 |
| @preaction | you'll still need to add a leading "/" to that URL (or more accurately, the gatewayUrl from the config file) | 01:36 |
| @preaction | (which incidentally is what the gateway macro does, it's just slower than knowing what the gatewayUrl really is) | 01:36 |
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| +perlDreamer | the need for the gateway macro, when designing for a particular site, is pretty low | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | but for core stuff, you have to use it | 02:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | we will now entertain motions from the floor to hold off tonight's beta release | 04:52 |
| +perlDreamer | absent any motions from the floor, the release will commence | 04:57 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r987ee3e / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.9.8-7.9.9.pl : When processing templates during an upgrade, it has to be done after importing packages. - http://bit.ly/cjdpIy | 05:18 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbd241af / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.9 release. - http://bit.ly/9NxB5H | 05:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | all done | 06:00 |
| @scrottie | nice. | 06:00 |
| @scrottie | looks like exporting packages doesn't grab assets contained inside that asset, only the asset itself? | 06:01 |
| +perlDreamer | nope | 06:01 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r18da6a8 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.10 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/atukJ5 | 06:01 |
| +perlDreamer | exporting as a package takes the package, and all children | 06:01 |
| +perlDreamer | if it doesn't something is badly broken | 06:02 |
| @scrottie | hrm. I'll try again. | 06:02 |
| @scrottie | was it wrong of me to mark the children exportable too first? | 06:02 |
| +perlDreamer | are we talking about the same thing? | 06:03 |
| +perlDreamer | exportable as HTML | 06:03 |
| +perlDreamer | versus packaging? | 06:03 |
| @scrottie | ah. no. | 06:03 |
| +perlDreamer | ok :) | 06:03 |
| +perlDreamer | which one are we talking about? | 06:03 |
| -!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.8.23-stable | 7.9.9-beta | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com | 06:03 | |
| @scrottie | my confusing the two was the problem. wgd package apparently exports the assets for import elsewhere. wgd export does something else. | 06:06 |
| @scrottie | wgd package includes the children. | 06:06 |
| +perlDreamer | export serializes it to a text file | 06:07 |
| @scrottie | so it seems. | 06:07 |
| +perlDreamer | package is an interface to the WebGUI package system | 06:07 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, did you have a go at the purported upgrade bug? | 06:08 |
| @scrottie | not exactly... I started the non-upgraded database loading again and then set out to finish up what I was doing while it loaded. | 06:08 |
| @scrottie | looks like it's still going. and that's on the fast machine. if I were around the fast machine and it wasn't crashed out, I'd have set that off last night. | 06:09 |
| @scrottie | arg. but it's not using any cpu. | 06:10 |
| @scrottie | but last time I killed it, it reported being on some high line number. dammit. | 06:10 |
| @scrottie | 69423 1 scott 14 -2 32496 17m 3704 S 0.6 24:19.00 mysqld | 06:11 |
| @scrottie | well, I guess I'm done with $other_thing, so I was hoping this would be ready for me now. | 06:14 |
| @scrottie | it took ages on the slower Linux laptop but it also pegged the CPU. | 06:16 |
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| elnino | hey! perlDreamer, did youfigure out the flash? | 06:40 |
| elnino | need to bouce an idea regarding products. | 06:40 |
| elnino | we have content that is deliverable in a book, cd, and ebook. Are the book, cd, and ebook going to be product assets? or are they variants? | 06:41 |
| +perlDreamer | No clue with the flash | 06:43 |
| +perlDreamer | if the end goal is to download one of more files, they'll need to be Subscription assets | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | so that you can add them to a group | 06:44 |
| elnino | perlDreamer, oh yeah, I forgot about that... ok. so they are all different products/subscriptions. | 06:59 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 06:59 |
| +perlDreamer | that is, unless you can get the Product Asset to run a workflow on checkout | 06:59 |
| elnino | they currently have yahoo store and the three choices are in a drop list, so I had variants stuck in my head. | 06:59 |
| elnino | it would be more presentable that way if they were variants I think. | 07:00 |
| elnino | and I forget..each of these variants can have their own weights, prices, isbn, and inventory tracking by default? or do I define that in my custom product asset? | 07:02 |
| +perlDreamer | variants can have, and do track, all of those | 07:06 |
| +perlDreamer | hang on | 07:07 |
| +perlDreamer | a variant has: weight, price, quantity, sku and a description | 07:07 |
| +perlDreamer | sku could be ISBN, it's not used for much except synchronizing with external brick and mortar inventory programs | 07:08 |
| elnino | so then I probably would need a custom product to add a flag for delivery method or something. | 07:10 |
| elnino | ok. now I just have to find my webgui books in my boxes. =) | 07:10 |
| elnino | thanks! and good night! | 07:11 |
| +perlDreamer | good night, and good hunting, elnino | 07:11 |
| +perlDreamer | if you need help, holler | 07:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I owe you one after last night | 07:11 |
| elnino | but you didn't resolve the issue... I still owe you I believe. | 07:12 |
| +perlDreamer | well, okay. I'll help you anyway | 07:12 |
| elnino | ... oh.. I forgot.. the vender payout... | 07:13 |
| +perlDreamer | yes? | 07:14 |
| elnino | is that per product basis? or a set percentage per vendor? | 07:14 |
| +perlDreamer | you can set a vendor for each product | 07:14 |
| elnino | yep. | 07:14 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know how the percentages work | 07:14 |
| elnino | ok. no problem. | 07:15 |
| +perlDreamer | but I know they do, since a large WebGUI company uses them | 07:15 |
| elnino | did the store checkout process get reworked? I know it was in the process at one time. | 07:16 |
| +perlDreamer | it was reworked quite heavily in 7.9 | 07:16 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a worth creating a beta demo site to look at | 07:17 |
| elnino | ok. I look forward to it! I"m assuming the new templates went into 7.9 as well? | 07:17 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 07:17 |
| elnino | so 7.8 hasn't change much from 7.7? | 07:17 |
| +perlDreamer | no, just big fixes | 07:18 |
| +perlDreamer | uh, bug fixes | 07:18 |
| elnino | =) | 07:18 |
| elnino | ok. Good to know. Now I'm ready to sleep. | 07:18 |
| elnino | bye! | 07:18 |
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| +perlDreamer | I read a lot of blogs and articles online | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'm amazed at how generally nice WebGUI people seem to be | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | no flame wars | 07:19 |
| +perlDreamer | no shouting | 07:19 |
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| @scrottie | I LIKE PUDDING. | 07:28 |
| +perlDreamer | and then there's scrottie... | 07:43 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie! | 08:47 |
| +perlDreamer | Long time no IRC | 08:47 |
| +perlDreamer | how's the pudding? | 08:47 |
| scrottie | wish I had some =( | 08:48 |
| +perlDreamer | why isn't there a pudding delivery service? | 09:05 |
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| zylopfa | Hello all | 15:15 |
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| zylopfa | I am making an email system in webgui, will put it on the bazzar if anyone is interested | 15:18 |
| zylopfa | Its utilizing a new Article like wobject called Email and a new folder type called EmailFolder | 15:19 |
| SDuensin | Morning. | 15:30 |
| zylopfa | Good morning! | 15:31 |
| SDuensin | Hey zylopfa | 15:39 |
| SDuensin | Email system? Sounds interesting. | 15:40 |
| zylopfa | yeah i am making it with things webgui has already, email folders instead of the folder asset | 15:40 |
| zylopfa | and Email instead of Article asset | 15:40 |
| SDuensin | Just internal mail, or actual POP/IMAP kinda stuff? | 15:41 |
| zylopfa | yeah pop style mail | 15:42 |
| SDuensin | Very cool. | 15:42 |
| zylopfa | you set up a workflow i have made with: what server ip, what account, password etc | 15:42 |
| zylopfa | and then it will fetch mail there into a mailfolder you want | 15:43 |
| zylopfa | and all the mails becomes Email assets inside the mail folder which is a MailFolder asset | 15:43 |
| zylopfa | Its good if you setup business sites, then they can handle business from the site itself | 15:44 |
| SDuensin | I do, and I agree. Right now I bounce them from the WebGUI part to a RoundCube server. | 15:45 |
| * SDuensin runs way too many servers. | 15:45 | |
| zylopfa | haa yeah :( | 15:45 |
| zylopfa | I currently run 2 production ones and a test one | 15:45 |
| SDuensin | Building more RIGHT NOW, too. :-D | 15:45 |
| zylopfa | haa sweet! | 15:45 |
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| zylopfa | webgui is genious! when building applications for it | 18:27 |
| SDuensin | Isn't it? :-) | 18:28 |
| * SDuensin is WebGUI's #1 fan. | 18:28 | |
| zylopfa | ;D yeah | 18:29 |
| zylopfa | Gonna get this on the bazaar, but you need to install a lot of stuf | 18:31 |
| zylopfa | Email.pm and EmailFolder assets and a getEmail workflow activity | 18:32 |
| SDuensin | Write good docs. :-) | 18:32 |
| zylopfa | yeah | 18:32 |
| zylopfa | there is automatic installation of the assets but it wont work for the workflow activity | 18:33 |
| zylopfa | its just a line in the config file though but has to be explained | 18:33 |
| zylopfa | Does php programmers use object oriented programming? | 18:35 |
| +perlDreamer | zylopfa, yes | 18:37 |
| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, I think zylopfa may qualify for WebGUI's #1 European fan | 18:37 |
| Haaarg | it's kind of similar to perl for that. people mix and match oo and procedural code. | 18:37 |
| zylopfa | ok, always thought of php as a ripoff of perl with much less power | 18:37 |
| zylopfa | haa yeah Haaarg | 18:38 |
| +perlDreamer | zylopfa, it suffered from very bad security issues in its youth | 18:38 |
| +perlDreamer | but it's matured really well, and has several advantages over perl, especially in the web space | 18:38 |
| +perlDreamer | like, easy deployment | 18:38 |
| +perlDreamer | built in database connections | 18:38 |
| Haaarg | it still suffers from lots of its early design decisions | 18:38 |
| zylopfa | yeah and bad programmer education with injections and xss and so on, but thats not the languages fault | 18:38 |
| zylopfa | I have my 3rd project for the bazaar finished soon. an pop3 email tool, for getting and sending email from webgui | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | that sounds like a good Account plugin | 18:39 |
| zylopfa | Its pretty smart, its a workflow activity, that gets the email from the server you choose | 18:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I mean the user interface, that would be a good Account plugin | 18:40 |
| zylopfa | then it makes the Inbox,MailTemplate,Sentmail folders as EmailFolder | 18:40 |
| +perlDreamer | that way it's part of the user's account system, like Inbox, Profile, Contributions, and so on | 18:40 |
| zylopfa | and it creates the email in there as an Email asset | 18:40 |
| zylopfa | yeah perlDreamer i wanted to make it integrated with the mailbox | 18:41 |
| zylopfa | but it would be hacking to much at things that already is | 18:41 |
| zylopfa | I made 2 new assets one for EmailFolder and one for Email (a modified Article) | 18:41 |
| +perlDreamer | Adding it to the inbox would be a big challenge, yeah | 18:41 |
| zylopfa | I try to use as much as webguis things as i can | 18:42 |
| zylopfa | without changing existing code | 18:42 |
| zylopfa | perlDreamer, i can add the mails locally to the inbox, but i cant send out from the webgui mail system to email addresses directly | 18:43 |
| * SDuensin wishes he had more time to hack on WebGUI. | 18:44 | |
| +perlDreamer | no, the inbox only sends to another inbox | 18:44 |
| +perlDreamer | well, the way it works now anyway | 18:44 |
| SDuensin | Instead I'm doing dumb things like reading the instructions before loading software. Obviously this is the wrong way of doing things. The instructions don't work, but blindly clicking things seems to be making progress. | 18:45 |
| +perlDreamer | yay for blind clicking! | 18:46 |
| zylopfa | haa :D | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, I don't recommend that approach for emails or random web pages | 18:47 |
| zylopfa | btw is the api for webgui changed much in version 8? | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | zylopfa: http://gist.github.com/475603 | 18:47 |
| zylopfa | Seems the assets has been changed a lot | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | internally, yes | 18:51 |
| +perlDreamer | from the outside, only in very small ways that are very easy to change | 18:51 |
| zylopfa | Will see if i migrate my stuff to version 8, propably will though | 18:51 |
| zylopfa | perlDreamer, do you know how often the api will change? | 18:51 |
| +perlDreamer | well, the last time there was a major change it was 7.0.0 | 18:52 |
| zylopfa | yeah thats some time ago | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | from 7.0.0 'til now, only in ways that are mandated by bug fixes | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | but, at 7.0.0 there was a promise made to the developers | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | 5 years of stability | 18:52 |
| zylopfa | ahh nice | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | that promise expires this year | 18:52 |
| zylopfa | imba | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | so I don't know what life will be like going forward | 18:53 |
| zylopfa | Well the code i made can easy be changed into the new one | 18:53 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction would be a good person to ask about that | 18:53 |
| zylopfa | perlDreamer, may I ask you about some programmatical stuff? | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | of course! | 18:54 |
| zylopfa | I have this new asset Email.pm, which is basically a Article asset with other fields | 18:55 |
| zylopfa | such as subject,from,to,sendby,headers,message etc | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 18:55 |
| @preaction | i'm making a similar promise: the 8.x API will remain compatible | 18:56 |
| zylopfa | each Email is an email (ofc) from the mail server, and i store them in an EmailFolder.p, | 18:56 |
| zylopfa | The Email asset is however not only a container for emails | 18:56 |
| zylopfa | you can also send emails from an Email asset | 18:56 |
| zylopfa | it has www methods for that | 18:56 |
| zylopfa | so forexample you can make "Stationarys" | 18:57 |
| zylopfa | by creating Email assets in the stationary folder with predefined fields | 18:57 |
| zylopfa | and for sending them you can use its www method | 18:57 |
| zylopfa | And the question! | 18:57 |
| zylopfa | Is it stupid to make the Email asset more than a container of email data? Is it stupid to also put functionality into it? | 18:58 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not necessarily stupid | 18:58 |
| @preaction | well if you delete an Email asset, it should probably delete it from the server. | 18:59 |
| zylopfa | the workflow that handle that, will fetch mail from a given pop3 server at a given interval | 18:59 |
| @preaction | but my tactic for this would not have been to make an e-mail asset at all really. I'd just use IMAP and store everything on the remote server | 18:59 |
| zylopfa | the emails fetched will be stored in a EmailFolder as Email assets | 18:59 |
| +perlDreamer | zylopfa, the question is did you have to do something bad to make that work? | 18:59 |
| +perlDreamer | did you copy and paste code? | 18:59 |
| zylopfa | no no | 19:00 |
| zylopfa | I make my own assets | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I think you may misunderstand me | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | in Email.pm, there is code for sending email. | 19:00 |
| zylopfa | but as Folder.pm only show things native to folders, i need an EmailFolder asset that show things native to emails | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | and in EmailFolder.pm, there is code for sending email | 19:01 |
| zylopfa | perlDreamer, yeah the Email.pm asset i made myself, its like the article asset but it has also www functions to send email | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | if you copy and pasted the code from Email.pm to EmailFolder.pm, then there are two copies of the same code | 19:01 |
| zylopfa | the EmiaFolder has no code for sending mail | 19:01 |
| zylopfa | no no | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, in that case, no worries | 19:01 |
| zylopfa | :D | 19:01 |
| zylopfa | Its cause the normal Folder.pm asset of webgui cant show other things than files | 19:02 |
| zylopfa | and in my email list i need t show emails, which have subjects and from and date received etc. | 19:02 |
| zylopfa | I think its smart to use the WebGUI stuff already in there and then make the thing work with different templates | 19:03 |
| zylopfa | I will show my project soon in the bazaar | 19:03 |
| * perlDreamer goes to the gym | 19:14 | |
| zylopfa | take care! | 19:22 |
| scrottie | grr. the only dump of alumni I can find that hasn't already been upgraded successfully was dumped incorrectly, not working around MySQL nits, and doesn't preserve the triggers. | 19:35 |
| @preaction | i don't think mysqldump preserves triggers | 19:36 |
| @preaction | in fact, mysqldump has a big long list of "Yeah, this doesn't really work, but use it for backups" | 19:36 |
| scrottie | /*!50003 TRIGGER `insert_groupings` AFTER INSERT ON `groupings` FOR EACH ROW BEGIN ... | 19:46 |
| @preaction | hm. weird | 19:46 |
| scrottie | --skip-extended-insert | 19:47 |
| scrottie | Frank's suggestion. | 19:47 |
| scrottie | http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11711 ... any suggestions on trying to replicate that one using an already upgraded database? my backup plan is to just restore one of these (I just blew the last restore away), drop that table, and go through the series, but that seems kind of weak. | 19:48 |
| @preaction | it won't be possible, upgrades change the schema, can't go back and can't re-run | 19:49 |
| @preaction | unfortunately Frank decided to not keep an eye on the upgrades, and we don't keep an upgrade log | 19:50 |
| @preaction | there's no way it just MAGICALLY did not get created, something happened to kill a single upgrade script, the one where the table was added, before the table was added | 19:50 |
| @preaction | the upgrade.pl runner should have stopped there, but sometimes it just goes on its merry way like nothing happened | 19:51 |
| scrottie | hmm. | 19:51 |
| @preaction | it's not the best upgrade system, but it's far better than anyone else's :p | 19:51 |
| @preaction | most likely it's a db integrity issue that wasn't accounted for in the script: assuming an asset exists (WebGUI::Asset->new or otherwise must always be checked for undef), or assuming something else exists | 19:52 |
| scrottie | it seems quite sane to me. a system of limited scope beats a system of limited scope with a thousand half-assed fixes piled on top of it. | 19:52 |
| @preaction | usually it's assuming an asset can be instantiated. since we return undef instead of throwing, you have to be careful when instantiating a huge list of unknown assets | 19:52 |
| scrottie | hmm. | 19:52 |
| @preaction | indeed, and it works. unlike many CMS products that simply do not have an upgrade path at all | 19:53 |
| @preaction | i'd say use the alumni dev site, after you ask Frank so he can notify the client. just save the current db and restore it after you're done | 19:57 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer mentioned it might be something with the "IF NOT EXISTS" clause | 19:57 |
| scrottie | my MySQL accepted the syntax. creating the table when it didn't exist and ignoring it when it did both worked. but I don't know what minimum versions are. | 19:58 |
| scrottie | if I don't have an older SQL dump from before this upgrade then I'm not sure what the dev machine will buy me. | 19:58 |
| @preaction | 5.0.44 i believe is the minimum we require | 19:58 |
| scrottie | I've got two machines here more or less set up to run this. | 19:58 |
| @preaction | the dev site might accept the dump (can't be 100% sure, being mysql) | 19:59 |
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| scrottie | well, I can restore the slightly older dump, but fixing the breakage would be involved. | 20:00 |
| scrottie | in fact, doing just that without realizing the scope of it consumed most of my earlier efforts in setting up an alumni dev install. | 20:00 |
| @preaction | you could pull a new dump from app1 if you wanted, though if the current one doesn't work not sure what a new one would do | 20:00 |
| scrottie | but the breakage there could be probably be ignored for the purpose of that ticket. | 20:01 |
| scrottie | the current one works, but it's current. its currentness is the problem. | 20:01 |
| scrottie | oh, from app1. | 20:01 |
| scrottie | production? | 20:01 |
| @preaction | the alumni production site shouldn't be at 7.9 yet | 20:01 |
| @preaction | yeah | 20:01 |
| scrottie | ahh. | 20:01 |
| scrottie | right. | 20:01 |
| @preaction | app1's mysql is a slave to app2, and is only used to pull dumps / backups | 20:01 |
| scrottie | okay, I haven't touched that machine yet. | 20:02 |
| @preaction | stupid myisam table locks | 20:02 |
| scrottie | ... and I don't seem to have a login. could I talk you into pulling a dump over to dusk or else setting me up so I can? either way. | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, if you don't run that upgrade on a mirror or alumni, all the way down to WRE, it won't do the job | 20:17 |
| scrottie | argh. oh, boy. | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | khenn has a dump of that on alumni | 20:18 |
| @preaction | most likely. it could be any number of variables. | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | we just need to copy it over to dusk for scrottie to pull down | 20:18 |
| @preaction | i gave him a login, he's got it | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | wunderbahr | 20:19 |
| scrottie | I think I'm going to do a dry run on my local machine here. then I'll try to match the WRE version if necessary. I can't think of anything else to replicate from that environment. | 20:20 |
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| @preaction | looks like 8 just got one more major feature: fixing versioning | 21:31 |
| @preaction | addRevision will no longer create tags automatically, tags will be smarter, and content approval will be easier to deal with | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | awesome! | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | how did you shoehorn that in? | 21:34 |
| @preaction | JT, Frank, and I have wanted it forever, so I shuffled Paul's YUI3 project back (as we've never promised anything in re JS) | 21:35 |
| @preaction | YUI3 can go in after January, np | 21:35 |
| @preaction | but breaking versioning API cannot | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | let's be sure it has really, really good tests | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | and let frodwith know that I'm available for extra bandwidth | 21:35 |
| @frodwith | someone said my name | 21:36 |
| @frodwith | it was YOU, wasn't it! | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | changing the versioning API will have a nasty downstream effect on tests | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | and other ripples | 21:36 |
| @preaction | he's not done w/ helpdesk v2 r1 yet, but after that he'll probably be doing this, or someone else will while he takes on other 8 tasks | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | so if you need extra fixing bandwidth, please holler | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | removing Class::InsideOut is a nice hobby | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | but we can live with it for a long time | 21:36 |
| @preaction | no, we need to reduce our dep load. it's out of control :p | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think we can pull C::IO out of Crud | 21:37 |
| @preaction | damn. | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | but it will be the last one that I do | 21:38 |
| @preaction | well, we've got a plan for replacing Crud w/ DBIC which will happen during the 8.x cycle | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'll have a change to see what it does to in-core modules | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | if it's not too bad, it's still doable | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | but CRUD is, cruddy | 21:38 |
| @preaction | extending a CIO object shouldn't require CIO, and shouldn't break if the original object isn't CIO anymore. that's the point of CIO i thought | 21:39 |
| @frodwith | yeah, what's the issue with Crud? | 21:40 |
| @frodwith | the crux of the crud, if you will | 21:40 |
| @preaction | it's not DBIC | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | it's the accessors | 21:40 |
| @frodwith | what about them? | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | we'd have to live with the ->get interface, forever | 21:40 |
| @frodwith | I don't follow. | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | one of the goals of moving to Moose is to have real accessors | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | $self->title | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | instead of $self->get('title') | 21:41 |
| @frodwith | right | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I can convert Crud over to using Moose with no problem | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | but I don't know what it will do Crud's accessors, and introspection | 21:42 |
| @frodwith | does crud -have- accessors, or does it just use the get interface? | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | it just has get | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | and WebGUI::Definition does provide ->get as a compatibility measure | 21:42 |
| @frodwith | I don't think CIO has introspection | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | No, but Crud does | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | for building, removing and altering tables | 21:43 |
| @frodwith | I'm not seeing how that's related to CIO | 21:44 |
| +perlDreamer | perhaps it's not | 21:44 |
| +perlDreamer | but it won't be as straight forward as working with the other 12 modules that I've changed from C::IO to Moose | 21:44 |
| +perlDreamer | hence, "I don't think we can pull C::IO from Crud" | 21:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I would really like to be wrong | 21:44 |
| +perlDreamer | but I have nasty suspicions otherwise | 21:44 |
| @frodwith | well, I don't know what's been involved in the other guys, but Crud's introspection is all based on crud_definition, which would be real easy to port | 21:46 |
| @frodwith | I mean, naively port. Giving it a nice syntax and whatnot, a la what you guys have done with assets, would be harder. | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | probably | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we should just do that, and then do the real thing when we get DBIC | 21:47 |
| @frodwith | well, if we're trying to get rid of the dep on CIO | 21:48 |
| @frodwith | it's a step in the right direction | 21:48 |
| @preaction | bam! nestable AdminBar accordions! | 21:48 |
| @frodwith | I didn't know you had a spiceweasel, preaction. | 21:49 |
| @preaction | I bought one to kick it up another notch! | 21:49 |
| +patspam | lol @ haarg | 21:56 |
| +patspam | I just tried out Devel::SawAmpersand on the wg codebase | 21:57 |
| +patspam | found that we were hit by it | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | *::Packer, yes? | 21:57 |
| +patspam | traced it back to JavaScript::Packer (and hence HTML::Packer) | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | or is it internal? | 21:57 |
| +patspam | went into cpan to report the bug | 21:57 |
| +patspam | and found that haarg reported it 13hrs ago ;) | 21:57 |
| +patspam | https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=59249 | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | patspam, did you know that there is no XS equivalent of HTML::Packer? | 21:58 |
| +patspam | dang | 21:58 |
| +perlDreamer | like, JavaScript::Minifier::XS | 21:58 |
| +perlDreamer | if there was, it could be a big speed-up for WebGUI | 21:58 |
| +perlDreamer | and it wouldn't use $& :) | 21:58 |
| @preaction | there are other lower-hanging fruit :p | 21:58 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but this would be a benefit to lots of people | 22:05 |
| +perlDreamer | but writing "yet another" HTML parser, in XS and C, might not be very fun either | 22:06 |
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| SDuensin | Any of you done much research into proxy-type software for placing web servers behind a firewall? | 22:46 |
| SDuensin | I want such a simple proxy that it *has* to already exist. Why rewrite it if it does? | 22:47 |
| @preaction | you want just an HTTP proxy? | 22:47 |
| @preaction | Varnish or Nginx | 22:47 |
| SDuensin | Basically, I want a single box that can accept connections on port 80/443/whatever and use the HTTP header to determine which back end server to send it to. | 22:47 |
| @preaction | Varnish has a few more features for "HTTP Accelerator", and nginx i believe has more features for load balancing, round-robin, and dropping bad nodes | 22:48 |
| @preaction | i'd probably take nginx then | 22:48 |
| @preaction | best part: they're both faster than any other httpd out there | 22:48 |
| SDuensin | I just want to be able to point a ton of web sites at the same IP and still host each web site on it's own box internally. Make sense? | 22:48 |
| @preaction | squid or nginx are your choices probably | 22:49 |
| @preaction | squid is a specialized proxy, so might have more towards what you need | 22:49 |
| @preaction | but to clarify: you want to point a domain at your proxy IP, you want the proxy to do an internal IP lookup of the incoming domain and fetch the requested page from the internal server <- note two different DNS views here | 22:52 |
| SDuensin | Exactly. | 22:52 |
| @preaction | mod_proxy could technically do that, provided /etc/hosts and/or DNS views were set up correctly | 22:52 |
| @preaction | the main thing is going to be making sure DNS is set up correctly | 22:53 |
| SDuensin | It will be. I'm smaert. :-) | 22:53 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: we build the releases on plainblack.com correct? | 23:10 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 23:10 |
| +perlDreamer | but what do you mean by "build the releases"? | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a step, wgd build | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | which makes the new database and uploads | 23:11 |
| @preaction | we don't do the final build of the release on frozen? making the tarball | 23:11 |
| @preaction | wgd build is on frozen, no? | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | wgd build does not make tarballs | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | wgd dist does, and it is done on frozen | 23:11 |
| @preaction | ah | 23:11 |
| @preaction | basically we need to take default.plainblack.com and update the 7.9.x releases with it every week | 23:14 |
| @preaction | well, every release | 23:14 |
| @preaction | would it be wrong to do wgd build on frozen? | 23:14 |
| +perlDreamer | you'd need a database | 23:15 |
| +perlDreamer | a clean one | 23:15 |
| +perlDreamer | but that'll nuke the current default content, yes? | 23:15 |
| @preaction | define clean | 23:15 |
| @preaction | yes | 23:15 |
| +perlDreamer | "clean" = "create.sql" | 23:15 |
| +perlDreamer | do you just want me to upgrade that server? | 23:16 |
| @preaction | default. is on frozen | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | now I'm totally confused | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | how about we do this vocally? | 23:17 |
| +perlDreamer | let me grab a headset | 23:17 |
| @preaction | ok | 23:17 |
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| scrottie | I am developing a profound dislike for MySQL. | 23:56 |
| @preaction | how was the new Post notification stuff implemented? | 23:56 |
| @preaction | it seems that t/Asset/Post/notification.t would never pass: the first commit sends a notification, the second commit sends one too | 23:57 |
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| --- Day changed Thu Jul 15 2010 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | they're set to skipNotification for the first commit? | 00:01 |
| @preaction | ah that could be why, they didn't look to be | 00:02 |
| @preaction | also, all these "installCollateral();" subs that copy files from t/supporting_collateral. were they supposed to have been changed to modifying @INC instead? | 00:03 |
| @preaction | like t/Help/isa.t | 00:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | yes | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm pretty sure they were merged into WebGUI8:HEAD | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, they were | 00:12 |
| @preaction | yeah probably were | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | no installCollateral in 8 | 00:12 |
| @preaction | and i happened to unmerge them :p | 00:12 |
| * perlDreamer wants patspams Template Change wizard | 00:13 | |
| @preaction | is there a t/VersionTag.t test failing on 8? something about can't read the temp config file? | 00:23 |
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| +perlDreamer | nope | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | here's the list of failing test: http://gist.github.com/476110 | 00:28 |
| +perlDreamer | Search.t is failing on my dev box due to a UTF-8 issue that is Ubuntu specific | 00:28 |
| @preaction | Paths.t doesn't fail for me | 00:29 |
| @preaction | nor InOutBoart.t | 00:30 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, must be an older run | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | InOutBoard will stop failing after it's merged, and it's intermittent anyway | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | Graham fixes Paths.t | 00:40 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r04a16ed / (5 files in 3 dirs): Move Shop/Transaction to Moose. Change core modules to suit. - http://bit.ly/bQFfBQ | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I need to rerun the suite after that last change, I'll repost the results when it is done. | 00:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I also need to eat two oreos | 00:52 |
| +perlDreamer | bbiab | 00:52 |
| @preaction | k, i'm doing a full run myself | 00:52 |
| +perlDreamer | want to race? | 01:02 |
| @preaction | http://gist.github.com/476165 <- done! | 01:05 |
| @preaction | 1047 wallclock sec :( | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, with the addition of several thousand Class::Test tests for assets, it added about 8-10 minutes to the test run | 01:08 |
| * perlDreamer is confused | 01:08 | |
| +perlDreamer | EMSSubmissionForm.t should still be failing | 01:09 |
| @preaction | it is, and the formbuilder ones too | 01:09 |
| @preaction | but otherwise that's them all | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | VersionTag, run_asset should not | 01:09 |
| @preaction | well once i finish another rebase i'll push | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | 1057 wallclock seconds | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and it looks like I broke the ITransact test | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what I get for not eating my oreo's | 01:10 |
| @preaction | wtf. i fix the merge, i add the change, but when i git rebase --continue is says i didn't | 01:13 |
| * perlDreamer goes to pick up the tactical 11-year old from science camp | 01:16 | |
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| +perlDreamer | ITransact test is fixed | 01:47 |
| @preaction | so i get to go through another rebase? yay! | 01:47 |
| +perlDreamer | no, just cherry-pick it | 01:48 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r934a93a / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Transaction.pm t/Shop/PayDriver/ITransact.t): Fix bugs from the Transaction.pm Moose work. - http://bit.ly/dhmKmY | 01:48 |
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| @preaction | i wonder if we have more testing code than actual code | 01:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | It's possible, but I doubt it | 01:50 |
| @preaction | Renaming t/Cache/CHI.t => t/i18n/critic_labels.t <- Really? | 01:56 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 01:56 |
| @preaction | well it did it | 01:56 |
| +perlDreamer | it shouldn't have | 01:57 |
| +perlDreamer | that's not the way 8 is | 01:57 |
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| +perlDreamer | git does weird crap | 01:58 |
| @preaction | yeah. aborted the last hour's worth of work and just did a normal merge. | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | ugh | 02:13 |
| @preaction | http://gist.github.com/476243 <_ WTF | 02:21 |
| @preaction | whatever. i'll push tomorrow after i merge whatever everyone else does again... | 02:24 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I'll hold off pushing any more C::IO work | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | until I see your commit | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | that way, I can handle merging anything that I do | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | and it should ease up on what you need to do to get done | 02:26 |
| @preaction | nm. it worked. now i get to merge all my getEditForm changes tomorrow... i will probably not be in a good mood... | 02:27 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r708b47d / (169 files in 58 dirs): (log message trimmed) | 02:29 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Merge remote branch 'upstream/WebGUI8' into 8-merge | 02:29 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Conflicts: | 02:29 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: docs/gotcha.txt | 02:29 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: docs/previousVersion.sql | 02:29 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum.pm | 02:29 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Navigation.pm | 02:29 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r3ae21d6 / (6 files in 4 dirs): Merge remote branch 'upstream/WebGUI8' into 8-merge - http://bit.ly/c1CvNh | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | awesome, I'm up to date | 02:34 |
| +perlDreamer | and there are only 10 more modules to convert to Moose! | 02:40 |
| +perlDreamer | later, all | 02:40 |
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| scrottie | " Re-indexing site to clear out default synopses..."... that's taking a while, unsurprisingly. maybe it'll be done in the morning. | 11:56 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | Greasings! | 16:42 |
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| zylopfa | Greasings indeed! | 16:47 |
| SDuensin | Nooooooooooooooooo! MS extended support for XP until 2020! | 16:49 |
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| zylopfa | yeah i heard its a disaster! | 16:53 |
| SDuensin | It's bad enough they support Windows 7. :-) | 16:53 |
| zylopfa | heard!! | 16:53 |
| * SDuensin thinks he likes this zylopfa fella. | 16:54 | |
| zylopfa | also internet exploder 6 will be more dominant with the extended support for xp | 16:54 |
| SDuensin | Exploder! Yes! A second person using the term! | 16:54 |
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| zylopfa | Its true words :D | 16:56 |
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| SDuensin | MS does it again. Not only are XP and IE6 going to live on, but something *WORTH* keeping is now dead. Although nobody here cares, there will be no third season of "1 vs. 100" on Live. :-( | 18:02 |
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| zylopfa | Greetings Webguians! | 18:25 |
| SDuensin | ReHi | 18:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | morning, webgui folks | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | due to my recent bout of work-related sleeplessness | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I've been wondering if, in WebGUI 8, we should rethink our hard-line No-Windows stance | 19:21 |
| SDuensin | Lots of moron^H^H^H^H^H^Hcompanies insist on it. | 19:23 |
| zylopfa | Greetings perlDreamer | 19:24 |
| zylopfa | you seriously need some rest I think | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | indeed, zylopfa | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, we've recently had a 100% increase in the # of windows customers | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | from 1, to 2 | 19:24 |
| zylopfa | why would you wanna run it on windows? | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | you can't ignore those growth numbers | 19:25 |
| SDuensin | That many, huh? Wow! | 19:25 |
| zylopfa | the wre is genious, so its piece of cake installing it on a linux server | 19:25 |
| zylopfa | I know cause i have done it both ways, both the "compile all the things needed from source" and installing with wre | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | zylopfa, but there are still people who are stuck on Windows, due to corporate policy, or whatever | 19:26 |
| zylopfa | yeah :( I am stuck on windows on my work pc also but at home and at my own business i am linux | 19:27 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: last i knew, knowmad was slowly migrating away, and our other support client is in the process as well | 19:27 |
| @preaction | from windows, not webgui | 19:27 |
| zylopfa | people just have to get used to that webgui is not just a shitty cms system, its a freaking development platform for the net with a brilliant api | 19:28 |
| @preaction | it's nice to hear that, usually all us devs who've been drinking the koolaid for a long time have plenty of gripes to make ;) | 19:28 |
| @preaction | er.. wait, "shitty cms"? :( | 19:28 |
| zylopfa | well the more i work with programming things for webgui the more i think its genious | 19:29 |
| * perlDreamer loves webgui as it is. It's only you young malcontents that stir the pot. | 19:29 | |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: it is stipulated, webgui is a crappy CMS, it's just less crappy than everything else out there | 19:29 |
| zylopfa | preaction, you take it out of context!#¤&¤&#&¤ | 19:29 |
| @preaction | and yes, it is mainly "it does what needs doing, but it could do so better" | 19:29 |
| @preaction | zylopfa: just messing with you ;) | 19:29 |
| zylopfa | yeah i can tell somehow ;D | 19:29 |
| zylopfa | I am so happy with webgui that when one of my client asked why he couldnt get the work he needed in joomla | 19:30 |
| zylopfa | I told him, fine go make it in joomla, and come back to me when you need it to work in webgui | 19:30 |
| @preaction | heh | 19:31 |
| @preaction | i've had a few of my friends wax philosophical on joomla's suck | 19:31 |
| zylopfa | I am the european webgui ambassador! | 19:31 |
| zylopfa | preaction, I dont know about joomla to be honest | 19:31 |
| @preaction | and every week i come across somebody trying to solve a problem that WebGUI has solved years ago, simply and elegantly | 19:31 |
| @preaction | nor i, just what other people have told me | 19:32 |
| zylopfa | just that everyone else who dont know about cms systems talk about it cause they heard of it | 19:32 |
| @preaction | or drupal | 19:32 |
| zylopfa | yeah :( | 19:32 |
| zylopfa | Once in my young days 10 years ago i tried to make something like webgui | 19:32 |
| zylopfa | as i loved perl | 19:32 |
| @preaction | those two have the mind-share, but that's really all they have | 19:32 |
| zylopfa | and when i work now with webgui i can see there has been thought of everything from the api point of view | 19:33 |
| zylopfa | sure i was pissed off in the start with webgui, but then i learned to read the developers guide, and from then on i can say there is nothing at all i cant program for webgui | 19:33 |
| zylopfa | also i love the testing that is done with webgui | 19:35 |
| +perlDreamer | zylopfa, you're always free to add more testing code ;) | 19:41 |
| @preaction | the testing is what has allowed us to really push boundaries with 7.9 and 8.0 while still maintaining stability and, in some respects with 8, backwards compatibility | 19:41 |
| zylopfa | you are the testing pro Colin! are you gonna make a test section in the new developer book for v.8? | 19:41 |
| +perlDreamer | if they let me! | 19:42 |
| zylopfa | they will!! | 19:42 |
| @preaction | i thought the current one had a test section | 19:42 |
| zylopfa | there will be a book for the 8 right? | 19:42 |
| @preaction | and we haven't yet figured out what we're doing for the dev guide for 8 | 19:43 |
| zylopfa | yeah but thats the 7. | 19:43 |
| zylopfa | are you gonna make one preaction ? | 19:43 |
| @preaction | make one what? | 19:43 |
| zylopfa | a developers guide for webgui 8 | 19:44 |
| @preaction | most likely, but as mentioned, we haven't discussed how and when | 19:44 |
| zylopfa | you have one buyer already ;D | 19:44 |
| @preaction | the books are a huge amount of work for us that have little real gain (we're talking 200 hours of work, if we billed at $80 an hour...) | 19:45 |
| zylopfa | yeah i know its lame little you get out of it :( | 19:45 |
| @preaction | and what little we get out of it we get to feel guilty over because it's not free :p | 19:46 |
| zylopfa | ahhh it shouldnt be free | 19:46 |
| @preaction | "Oh, WebGUI is free but you have to buy the documentation" has been shouted by many many people | 19:46 |
| zylopfa | its the best book investment i ever done | 19:46 |
| zylopfa | well preaction , they have the choice of reading the source code to understand or reading a book by the developers on how it works | 19:47 |
| @preaction | their other argument is that it shouldn't be necessary, that because it's necessary WebGUI is too complex and difficult to learn | 19:47 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we could release every other line as free docs, and let people pay for the ones in-between? | 19:47 |
| @preaction | which is funny because every other CMS / framework has their own book, a few published by O'Reilly | 19:47 |
| @preaction | i'll admit that our source code needs better docs, but even that isn't a comprehensive how-to guide like the book is | 19:48 |
| zylopfa | well who said it should be easy to understand the api if you come from a php background? | 19:48 |
| zylopfa | perldoc is their friend also | 19:48 |
| @preaction | even hardcore Perlers, used to things like Catalyst | 19:48 |
| zylopfa | the docs are fine but the developer book makes you learn the system by example | 19:48 |
| zylopfa | whats Catalyst? | 19:49 |
| zylopfa | other than a cicco switch? | 19:49 |
| @preaction | the Perl MVC framework | 19:49 |
| @preaction | i do mean THE | 19:49 |
| @preaction | but hopefully we'll be allowing Cat-based assets in the next few weeks here | 19:49 |
| zylopfa | "No complicated object hierarchies" that put me off | 19:50 |
| zylopfa | from the catalyst site | 19:50 |
| zylopfa | "ou don't have to care much about session handling or authorization. " | 19:50 |
| zylopfa | Are they writing a api that is the complete opposite of webgui? | 19:51 |
| @preaction | not everyone likes MVC, i think it has some problems, but I'd like the flexibility of allowing people to move their already catalyst-based apps into a WebGUI site | 19:51 |
| zylopfa | yeah i guess preaction | 19:51 |
| @preaction | no, catalyst allows you to build apps. WebGUI takes a larger approach and controls an entire site | 19:51 |
| @preaction | catalyst is just a framework, webgui is a CMS | 19:51 |
| zylopfa | isnt webgui a framework also? | 19:52 |
| @preaction | yes, there are plugin points | 19:52 |
| zylopfa | Catalyst will make web development something you had never expected it to be: Fun, rewarding and quick. | 19:53 |
| zylopfa | I thought it was that already with webgui though | 19:54 |
| @preaction | they're two different ways of looking at things: WebGUI packs all functionality into Assets. Catalyst separates the concerns into Model, View, and Controller | 19:54 |
| @preaction | both have their merits | 19:55 |
| zylopfa | yeah i guess | 19:55 |
| @preaction | but Catalyst doesn't have a CMS | 19:56 |
| zylopfa | no and imo you need it for web apps | 19:56 |
| @preaction | it's another different way of looking at things: Catalyst tends to power more focused websites, WebGUI tends to power broader websites | 19:57 |
| zylopfa | Still webgui is so much more than a cms, thats my least concern when i push it on my customers | 19:57 |
| zylopfa | http://www.investeringsguld.dk/ i am making atm with webgui, its a gold investment site | 19:58 |
| CIA-59 | wgdev: Doug Bell master * raeea562 / lib/WGDev/Command/Reset.pm : allow reset to work with CHI - http://bit.ly/9XMNCt | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | zylopfa, you should post some of your sites to the WebGUI Sightings page | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | tavisto loves to add new WebGUI sites up there | 19:59 |
| zylopfa | yeah sure thing | 19:59 |
| zylopfa | I will do that | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | and it would get you some more attention in the WebGUI community | 19:59 |
| zylopfa | yeah true | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | currently, only the IRC folk know you well | 19:59 |
| @preaction | and do you have a company website? or an e-mail address? | 20:00 |
| zylopfa | I am working on my new thing for the bazaar | 20:00 |
| zylopfa | I am under tha name Peter Bryde in the bazaar | 20:00 |
| zylopfa | Made 1 most downloaded thing and one sms from forms tool | 20:00 |
| zylopfa | I am working on a pop3 webmail system now, which is soon done | 20:01 |
| scrottie | people hate technologies that make them feel stupid. MVCs are simple enough that people can quickly understand them and then quickly visualize how to make a blog in it. then all they have to do is convince themselves that a blog is all of the CMS they need. WebGUI is opposite there too. people have to convince themselves that all of these features aren't going to get in the way. that's an extraordinary unlikelyhood. features almost alwa | 20:01 |
| scrottie | ys get in the way. | 20:01 |
| scrottie | I need coffee. | 20:01 |
| * perlDreamer hooks up another bag to scrotties IV feed | 20:01 | |
| scrottie | thanks. | 20:01 |
| zylopfa | scrottie, yeah I myself are VERY fond of the dataform asset and the fact that you can make Workflows when forms are submitted | 20:02 |
| @preaction | agreed. Asset is huge, and that's a problem. | 20:02 |
| zylopfa | and the whole Cron system is genious | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | Asset is huge, but you only have to use as much of it as you want | 20:02 |
| @preaction | but the rest will prevent it from working if it's not handled correctly | 20:03 |
| @preaction | and/or cannot be overridden if you want to do something else entirely | 20:03 |
| scrottie | it would be an interesting experiment to run the underlaying architecture by people -- objects that present themselves for edit, view, etc, know how to aggregate data with their parents, fit into a tree structure, add children to themselves, etc -- independent of what has been implemented on it. it would be interesting to hear people's thoughts on developing on that rather than developing on a codebase built on top of that. | 20:03 |
| zylopfa | well you basically have to know a little bit about oop and how the definitions work then you are good to go | 20:03 |
| @tavisto | zylopfa, you can also email me a list of sites that you've worked on or know that are wG-powered | 20:05 |
| @preaction | heh, get them to agree to the theory, then say "Well, here's an implementation!" | 20:05 |
| zylopfa | tavisto, i have some frisky sites also, dont know if its appropriate, some erotic story sites | 20:05 |
| @tavisto | info@plainblack.com will work and I'll see it in the queue | 20:06 |
| zylopfa | sounds awesome! | 20:06 |
| @tavisto | well Doug will certainly want to see them | 20:06 |
| @preaction | indeed | 20:06 |
| zylopfa | one of my story sites has 10k users | 20:06 |
| zylopfa | and 15k stories | 20:06 |
| @tavisto | he's been trying to reach out to the pornographic industry so that they become addicted to wG and pour billions of dollars into the development of it | 20:06 |
| scrottie | or offer an implementation with only simple example examples and a lot of sub-packages on CPAN. | 20:06 |
| zylopfa | haa priceless | 20:06 |
| @preaction | and WG is perfect for it! it already has paid subscription plans built-in | 20:07 |
| @preaction | easy-to-use image galleries | 20:07 |
| zylopfa | yeah preaction ! | 20:07 |
| @preaction | just need to add video support and we're golden! | 20:07 |
| zylopfa | tRUE WORDS | 20:07 |
| zylopfa | i made my own story handeling assets though before webgui got one | 20:07 |
| @preaction | and i've got a friend who develops for Viddler, i've been asking him for help with hooking into Viddler's API to have it host video for WebGUI sites | 20:08 |
| zylopfa | that sounds awesome | 20:08 |
| scrottie | companies like ccbill.com do a good job of payment processing, dealing with payment customer service for you, helping you into resoprocity agreements with other content providers, login-protecting your site (attached to the payment/subscription system)... they even ssh into your host and set things up for you. | 20:08 |
| zylopfa | yeah i tried ccbill, ibill, paypal, stormpay for my site | 20:09 |
| zylopfa | but when it comes to payment they go bankrupt it seems, atleast ibill did | 20:09 |
| zylopfa | and i forgot to read the disclaimer on paypal regarding frisky content | 20:09 |
| zylopfa | so now the site is free use and has a point system ranking users among eachother, using the karma system and some leveling schemes | 20:10 |
| @preaction | do you have a content reporting system in place? for blatant spamming or objectionable content? | 20:11 |
| @preaction | i think we wrote one a while back but never got around to adding it to core webgui | 20:11 |
| zylopfa | i have editors to check the stories before they get submitted to the site | 20:12 |
| @preaction | that works too | 20:12 |
| zylopfa | but yeah a general content reporting tool would be good | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, there's a spamStopWords thing you can put in the config file | 20:12 |
| @preaction | hm... now why isnt' that documented? | 20:13 |
| zylopfa | still its a somewhat erotic site so i let the users moderate if there are some loonies | 20:13 |
| @preaction | it's not in WebGUI.conf.original | 20:13 |
| zylopfa | also with user to user mail, you can ban people | 20:13 |
| @tavisto | JT made that for me for the matrix | 20:13 |
| @preaction | heh, it's not in the matrix, it's in Post and WikiPage | 20:14 |
| @preaction | but still, it's not in conf.original, which means it doesn't exist :p | 20:14 |
| * preaction files bug | 20:15 | |
| zylopfa | http://www.thefirsttime.com is the site btw. will not put it on webgui site ofc. | 20:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Oh! A new bug | 20:18 |
| * perlDreamer grieves | 20:19 | |
| zylopfa | :O what happend | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a bug in WebGUI | 20:19 |
| zylopfa | :O WHERE?? | 20:19 |
| zylopfa | TELL ME PERLDREAMER!#¤%#¤& | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction posted it | 20:20 |
| zylopfa | :O | 20:20 |
| @preaction | don't make me out to be the bad guy here! | 20:22 |
| zylopfa | poor preaction | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I guess it's better to grieve than to be ignorant | 20:23 |
| @preaction | better the bug you know than the bug you don't! | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | indeed | 20:24 |
| zylopfa | tavisto, I will send a list with the sites that are webgui, then you can sort the inapropriate ones out | 20:25 |
| @tavisto | sounds godo | 20:26 |
| @tavisto | good even | 20:26 |
| zylopfa | send it now Tavis | 20:36 |
| zylopfa | sent ^ | 20:37 |
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| scrottie | hrm. well, that did finish running during the night. the problem in the bug as reported didn't come up. that part went off fine. but immediately afterwards, it blew up as a result of trying to add a primary key to data that contains exactly one duplicate record. | 20:46 |
| @preaction | fun! | 20:47 |
| scrottie | if that had happened before, I could plausibly blame that for keeping the WikiMaster table from being created. but no. | 20:47 |
| @preaction | so can't reproduce one bug, but discovered a different ont :p | 20:47 |
| scrottie | yes. | 20:47 |
| scrottie | monthly backup snapshots would help reproduce bugs as well as give a fallback in case the system clobbers critical data and no one notices for a while. | 20:48 |
| scrottie | it would be interesting to run this upgrade process on a few of those and see what else shakes loose. | 20:49 |
| @preaction | yes, our backup strategy is not ideal. that's something i want to address while we're moving to EC2 | 20:49 |
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| @preaction | i am finally merged up to date with 8! yay! | 20:55 |
| * preaction waits for the spam | 20:56 | |
| zylopfa | :O | 20:56 |
| @preaction | wait for it! | 20:56 |
| zylopfa | are you running 8 on production? | 20:56 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r2561195 / t/Asset/Wobject/InOutBoard.t : fix syntax error in InOutBoard test. still fails (+22 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/9rZ0fy | 20:56 |
| @preaction | aww... that was disappointing | 20:56 |
| @preaction | zylopfa: gott no. 8 is barely alpha-ready. many broken things | 20:57 |
| @preaction | many more incomplete things | 20:57 |
| zylopfa | yeah i thiought there wasnt, just saw the changes in the api yesterday | 20:57 |
| @preaction | i just finally merged a rather large changeset i made to 7.9 and 8. taken me 2 days | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, the InOutBoard test should not fail after the merge | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | it doesn't fail in master anymore | 20:58 |
| @preaction | so now i can finally write some tests to give to colin so he can do some 7.9 work and i can get back to fixing Asset Helpers | 20:58 |
| zylopfa | sweet preaction :D | 20:58 |
| @preaction | it does | 20:58 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: i'll check it out and reconcile | 20:59 |
| zylopfa | Colin is the testmaster or monster | 20:59 |
| @preaction | but if it's any consolation, i think we have fixed a few more tests with the merges | 20:59 |
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| zylopfa | is there any thoughts about webgui and html5? | 21:01 |
| zylopfa | thats more in the template department though | 21:01 |
| @preaction | it would not be supported by IE6-7 or even 8, so we can't migrate | 21:01 |
| zylopfa | but also the new html5 socket things that sounds fun in html5 | 21:02 |
| zylopfa | true preaction | 21:02 |
| zylopfa | and internet exploder will go on for 2020 or so | 21:02 |
| @preaction | WebSockets, but that's not as much HTML5 as it is JavaScript, and can be used without having an HTML5 doctype afaik | 21:02 |
| zylopfa | yeah but on the server side you have to have some socket things? some things that use sockets, like socket enabled assets? | 21:03 |
| @preaction | you'd need another daemon running, WebGUI is HTTP | 21:03 |
| zylopfa | how does the sockets work though? isnt it a major addon to the webserver? | 21:03 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r79fa8ca / t/Asset/Wobject/InOutBoard.t : reconcile IOB test with working version in master - http://bit.ly/cMQjeM | 21:03 |
| @preaction | you could make a handler that responds to the socket init request and spawns or notifies the socket daemon | 21:04 |
| zylopfa | yeah | 21:04 |
| zylopfa | its too bad in the web world that you have to wait for microsofts outdated technology to die | 21:05 |
| @preaction | yeah, esp. in the business world, which is our "target market" | 21:05 |
| zylopfa | yeah | 21:06 |
| zylopfa | lynx is rendering html way better than ms ie | 21:06 |
| zylopfa | apart from the pictures, but then again ms ie 6 cant render png's | 21:06 |
| SDuensin | (01:06:30 PM) zylopfa: lynx is rendering html way better than ms ie <-- hehehe | 21:09 |
| zylopfa | haa yeah! | 21:09 |
| * SDuensin prefers "links". | 21:09 | |
| zylopfa | damn it i gotta go for today, i hail from europe and its getting lateish here :( atleast as i have to be at work tomorrow | 21:12 |
| zylopfa | take care fellow webguians! | 21:12 |
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| Haaarg | my enter button just broke in half | 21:16 |
| Haaarg | fun | 21:16 |
| @preaction | heh | 21:17 |
| @preaction | on the laptop? | 21:17 |
| Haaarg | yeah | 21:22 |
| @preaction | we still got that non-functioning one i think if you want a new enter key | 21:23 |
| * perlDreamer is out for a bit | 21:26 | |
| -!- perlDreamer [~colink@pool-173-50-255-102.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 21:26 | |
| Haaarg | i'm glueing it right now, we'll see how it turns out | 21:31 |
| @preaction | if you were working with the Admin Console, would you be annoyed if you had to refresh the entire screen to see any new Asset Helpers that were enabled? | 21:58 |
| @preaction | or would you be more annoyed with waiting for an AJAX call to return to give you a list of Asset Helpers available for the current asset? | 21:58 |
| @preaction | IOW: should I put all the helpers in the HTML, or make them be grabbed via ajax? | 21:58 |
| @preaction | Fun! getAssetsInClipboard will instantiate all those assets before returning them, which is completely unnecessary... | 22:04 |
| @preaction | More fun! I need an asset to get the clipboard assets, but it needs to instantiate the root asset to call getLineage | 22:05 |
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| CIA-59 | WebGUI: translation * r12534 /translations/German/German/Shop.pm: Updating German on translation server | 22:56 |
| CIA-59 | WebGUI: translation * r12535 /translations/German/German/Asset_Carousel.pm: Updating German on translation server | 22:56 |
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| @preaction | is it possible to have more than one CSRF token active? would that be a bad idea? | 23:27 |
| @preaction | www_pasteList requires a CSRF token, www_paste is deprecated, but I need to be able to have as many active paste links as possible | 23:29 |
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| @preaction | oh, crap you weren't here :p | 23:43 |
| @preaction | i need more than one CSRF token, is that a bad idea? | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | huh? | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | why? | 23:43 |
| @preaction | www_pasteList requires a CSRF token, www_paste is deprecated, but I need to be able to have as many active paste links as possible | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | the token validates the whole form | 23:44 |
| @preaction | i'm doing the Clipboard tab of the AdminBar right now | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | you can use the same token multiple times | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | it validates the user's content, not any particular action | 23:44 |
| @preaction | but if an edit form is created, it would have a new CSRF token and invalidate all my old paste links | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | it uses the CSRF token from the user's session | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | which stays the same for the whole session | 23:45 |
| @preaction | ahhh | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | one session, one token | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | new session, new token | 23:45 |
| @preaction | okay, awesome | 23:45 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2410ee2 / lib/WebGUI/Types.pm : Add a Hash type to go along with Array types for handling JSON. - http://bit.ly/9IrcNv | 23:53 |
| +perlDreamer | why do I keep typing: git diss SomeFile.pm? | 23:53 |
| @preaction | you frontin essé? | 23:53 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r229e8e1 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Transaction.pm : Document that there are no automatic writes anymore. - http://bit.ly/a3UvDe | 23:57 |
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| --- Day changed Fri Jul 16 2010 | ||
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3bc6548 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Transaction.pm : Fix a typo in the error message. - http://bit.ly/b30jId | 00:29 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd28397f / (3 files in 2 dirs): Move TransactionItem to Moose. - http://bit.ly/cdWp0O | 00:29 |
| +perlDreamer | time to celebrate | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | A bug was closed in 8! | 00:36 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6072188 / (18 files in 3 dirs): Remove upgrade files in wrong location. Update upgrade directory to 8. - http://bit.ly/dlrwpm | 00:36 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r13c5614 / (7 files in 2 dirs): Fix bootstrapping problem with upgrade into WebGUI8 - http://bit.ly/9INucB | 00:36 |
| @preaction | yay! | 00:36 |
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| +perlDreamer | so, with URL dispatch | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | url.rss should call www_viewRss | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | would url.edit call www_edit? | 00:38 |
| @preaction | not currently | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | I guess what I'm asking is, don't we have to be careful when the system starts taking over URLs? | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | we've always let people use pretty much anything | 00:38 |
| @preaction | i don't plan to change anything with the current dispatch system, just add the .rss in the RssFeed aspect and see how things happen | 00:38 |
| @preaction | yes, i have a plan | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | awesome | 00:39 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll get the Faceman and Murdock together | 00:39 |
| @preaction | all questions shall be answered by the robust tests i shall write! | 00:39 |
| +perlDreamer | hah, robust! | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | They don't even pass!' | 00:40 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rad6cd05 / (12 files in 2 dirs): Refix the upgrade version. - http://bit.ly/9XgP64 | 00:40 |
| @preaction | does perl have a diff engine module? preferably one that doesn't rely on `diff` | 00:43 |
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| +perlDreamer | Algorithm::Diff? | 00:51 |
| @preaction | perfect | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | are you actually doing it? | 00:56 |
| @preaction | now we just need to be able to generate pretty diffs of paragraphs | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a nice formatter in SVN::WEb | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe Diff::Formatter::Html? | 00:57 |
| @preaction | i hope to. given two revisions calculate the differences | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | awesome | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | it's overdue | 00:57 |
| @preaction | String::Diff uses Algorithm::Diff to do exactly what we want | 00:58 |
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| @preaction | yep. perfect. absolutely perfect. | 01:00 |
| * perlDreamer is off to retrieve the Tactical Eleven Year-Old | 01:00 | |
| +perlDreamer | back in a while | 01:00 |
| @preaction | might add this to 7.9 too, just for shits and giggles | 01:00 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah! | 01:00 |
| @preaction | you sure he hasn't been upgraded to a Strategic Eleven Year-Old? | 01:01 |
| +perlDreamer | oh yeah, definitely tactical | 01:01 |
| +perlDreamer | you drop him into a situation, and you are assured victory due to excessive damage caused | 01:01 |
| +perlDreamer | when his self-guidance module kicks in, we'll upgrade him | 01:02 |
| @preaction | ah, so his devastation is limited to a skirmish. it's not a theatre-changer | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | no, not yet | 01:02 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r2e15891 / (lib/WebGUI/Session/Style.pm www/extras/admin/admin.js): display asset helpers (+11 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/9mObcs | 01:21 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * radfa7be / (3 files in 2 dirs): make Asset Helpers panel pretty - http://bit.ly/aMf5EN | 01:33 |
| @preaction | Haaarg: i added the improved upgrade system to the "Feature Status" page, is there anything else you added that I may have missed? | 01:35 |
| @preaction | well, anything that isn't part of the WebGUI 8 tickets | 01:36 |
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| +perlDreamer | reorganized file system locations | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I don't suppose you have a copy of Office 2007 for the Mac? | 02:00 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: nope | 02:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie, what's this other upgrade error that you reported? | 02:14 |
| @scrottie | was just putting together a ticket... let me push up my code. that's probably easist. | 02:14 |
| +perlDreamer | how about pasting a diff? | 02:15 |
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| @scrottie | http://github.com/scrottie/webgui/commit/b9032b3685388a39eb9eebdb6921e58e4ec1c372 | 02:25 |
| @scrottie | had to add an rsa public key for the fast machine to github. | 02:25 |
| @scrottie | I guess I could make sure that that actually exists in the database there and isn't an artifact of MySQL's dumping/undumping. | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | that wouldn't hurt | 02:28 |
| +perlDreamer | you're not supposed to be able to add a group to a group twice | 02:28 |
| +perlDreamer | so it's worth tracking down to see if maybe you've found 2 bugs, instead of 1 | 02:28 |
| @scrottie | webapps chronically suffer from race conditions. | 02:28 |
| +perlDreamer | the odds of two different admins adding the same group as a member of a 2nd group is pretty slim | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | and there's no automated process for doing that in WebGUI, in the core | 02:29 |
| @scrottie | ah. not automatic. hmm. | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | users to groups, perhaps | 02:30 |
| +perlDreamer | groups to groups, no | 02:30 |
| +perlDreamer | also, remember that khenn did that upgrade once, and only reported the 1 problem | 02:30 |
| +perlDreamer | although, it does seem odd that everyone who tries to run an upgrade on that dumpfile encounters __some__ kind of error | 02:31 |
| +perlDreamer | just not repeatable from person to person | 02:31 |
| @scrottie | yeah. earlier, I had to stop myself from suggesting that people attach database dumps to bug reports they file ;) | 02:31 |
| +perlDreamer | as long as you're buying the diskspace.... | 02:32 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r404498c / lib/WebGUI/Account.pm : Move Account over to Moose. - http://bit.ly/97Md6k | 02:33 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9d4d303 / lib/WebGUI/Account.pm : Really remove Class::InsideOut from Account.pm - http://bit.ly/b6Xdo5 | 02:34 |
| @scrottie | anyway, my dump was different from his. | 02:34 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a scatological joke in that statement, somewhere | 02:35 |
| @scrottie | muahaha | 02:35 |
| @scrottie | select count(*) as num, groupId, inGroup from groupGroupings group by groupId, inGroup having num > 1 ... yup, there's one (probably the same one, didn't look) over there too. it wasn't just dump/undump. | 02:38 |
| +perlDreamer | does it seem odd to you that khenn would not have come across that same, fatal error when doing his upgrade? | 02:39 |
| @scrottie | yes. | 02:39 |
| +perlDreamer | to me, that leads to one, and only one conclusion | 02:39 |
| @scrottie | the only reasonable explanation is that this problem developed very recently. | 02:39 |
| @scrottie | there are other unreasonable explanations. | 02:39 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, but his dump has the same info in it? | 02:39 |
| @scrottie | no. | 02:39 |
| @scrottie | I didn't get a copy of his dump. I had to ...er... take my own. | 02:40 |
| @scrottie | earlier today, I was lamenting not having his dump. | 02:40 |
| @scrottie | actually, I didn't know who else reported that problem. I only knew that someone had a problem and Frank posted the ticket. | 02:40 |
| @scrottie | I guess now that I know who had the problem, I could ask for a copy of his/her dump. | 02:40 |
| @scrottie | I'm really getting the feeling here though that monthly snapshots and testing against each of those would be a good idea. large datasets are great for shaking out bugs. | 02:41 |
| @scrottie | but there's a lot to do. alas. | 02:41 |
| @scrottie | khenn, are you around? do you monitor this channel? | 02:42 |
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| @scrottie | perlDreamer, are you thinking that rather than my opening a ticket and pushing that fix, I should just go through channels to have it manually fixed at the source and assume it to be a one time fluke? I'm happy with either way. | 02:43 |
| @scrottie | or as happy as I can be dealing with MySQL ;) | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | no, I'm thinking that your patch does the right thing | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | but we need to know how the duplicate got added in the first place | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | which means, more test writing | 02:44 |
| @scrottie | ieee! | 02:44 |
| @scrottie | run-time tests or unit test? | 02:44 |
| @scrottie | if this happened exactly once on a busy site, I'm guessing I won't have the instincts to figure out how to manage a unit test that does it in any except intentionally and directly. | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | unit tests | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | do your best | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | or die like the rest | 02:45 |
| * perlDreamer likes abusing movie quotes :) | 02:45 | |
| @scrottie | not to be difficult, but this sort of thing is generally a big project. | 02:45 |
| * scrottie usually doesn't get the reference... | 02:45 | |
| +perlDreamer | it's from Hackers | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | and this is 1-2 hours of test writing | 02:45 |
| @scrottie | ah. that's been a long time. | 02:45 |
| @scrottie | to replicate this bug? | 02:46 |
| +perlDreamer | to attempt to replicate this bug | 02:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd spend one hour on triage of the current dump | 02:46 |
| +perlDreamer | which group was it added to | 02:46 |
| +perlDreamer | when was it added | 02:46 |
| +perlDreamer | that may give you a clue on how to write the tests | 02:46 |
| @scrottie | okay. | 02:47 |
| @scrottie | I can look at it. | 02:47 |
| @scrottie | I don't remember, does khenn generally monitor this channel? what's a good way to get his attention. | 02:47 |
| +perlDreamer | he doesn't follow very closely. Skype/email | 02:48 |
| +perlDreamer | cell phone | 02:48 |
| +perlDreamer | knocking on his front door | 02:48 |
| +perlDreamer | trashing his Essentia | 02:48 |
| +perlDreamer | actually, right now I think he is in channel, cursing at us for not being smart enough to figure out the bug | 02:51 |
| +perlDreamer | and he's working on trying to do it himself | 02:51 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, how set are you about constructors throwing exceptions for missing sessions? | 02:54 |
| +perlDreamer | Moose will throw a conniption, but not an exception | 02:54 |
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| ITIL_Guy | Hello. | 03:07 |
| +perlDreamer | howdy | 03:07 |
| +perlDreamer | got a quick question? | 03:07 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm about to head out to dinner | 03:07 |
| ITIL_Guy | Anybody know where I can see if WebGUI can meet an RFP I'm trying to fill... | 03:08 |
| ITIL_Guy | ?? I have requriements... Just no familiarity with WebGUI. | 03:08 |
| +perlDreamer | have you checked out the feature list on webgui.org? | 03:08 |
| +perlDreamer | read the wiki? | 03:08 |
| +perlDreamer | searched the forums? | 03:09 |
| ITIL_Guy | Yeah... but I needed some specifics... | 03:09 |
| +perlDreamer | well, I do need to go, but there are other people in channel who can help out | 03:09 |
| ITIL_Guy | For instance, does it have performance monitoring (metrics, KPIs, CSFs, etc...) | 03:09 |
| ITIL_Guy | Change management, Release Management, etc??? | 03:09 |
| ITIL_Guy | I have about 40 different requirements... Is there a more detailed "features" list somewhere? | 03:11 |
| ITIL_Guy | Thanks for your help, BTW. :) | 03:11 |
| @scrottie | ITIL_Guy, hang tight. during EST business hours tomorrow in this channel is probably your best bet. I think a lot of people are at dinner right now. | 03:11 |
| ITIL_Guy | I didn't want to "cut'n paste" here... Not good IRC netiquiette, I'd presume. ;) | 03:12 |
| @scrottie | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com # from the /topic | 03:12 |
| ITIL_Guy | 10-4 Scrottie. I'll check back in then. Thanks for the heads' up. | 03:12 |
| @scrottie | ITIL_Guy, no problem. or if you hang around now, likely someone will unidle. just be patient =) | 03:13 |
| @khenn | ITIL_Guy: Send the requirements to jamie@plainblack.com | 03:13 |
| @khenn | or tavis@plainblack.com | 03:13 |
| ITIL_Guy | Will do. Sending now... | 03:13 |
| @khenn | we'll probably be in touch tomorrow during regular business hours | 03:13 |
| @scrottie | hey khenn, did you want me to try to replicate http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11711 from your dump? I'd be happy to try. | 03:13 |
| ITIL_Guy | Thanks everyone. Be well. | 03:23 |
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| @scrottie | http://gist.github.com/477806 ... told me I was up to date, then it told me I couldn't fast forward, then it couldn't rebase, now it can't pull. grr. | 04:40 |
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| @scrottie | looks like github is having a bad day. | 04:53 |
| @preaction | why would two openssh servers magically die on the same day and require updating? | 04:58 |
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| @scrottie | those Debian system? | 05:00 |
| @preaction | no, CentOS. probably 4 | 05:00 |
| @scrottie | hmm. well, this one bit me yesterday: http://www.webopius.com/content/350/solution-to-error-command-line-line-0-bad-configuration-option-permitlocalcommand | 05:00 |
| @preaction | nope, 5.0 | 05:00 |
| @scrottie | I certainly hadn't given apt permission to muck with ssh. | 05:01 |
| @preaction | http://gist.github.com/477819 <- that's the error. looks like I should remove pam_loginuid.so from pam.conf, but for some reason upgrading openssh fixed it | 05:05 |
| @scrottie | the idea of critical Unix apps mucking up their internal state horrifies me. so far, I've almost completely managed to avoid Windows. I certainly don't want to see Linux become a Windows reincarnate. | 05:11 |
| @scrottie | at least with regards to the corrupting itself thing. | 05:25 |
| * scrottie gives up and fetches a fresh clone | 05:53 | |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Scott Walters master * rc95ef7a / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.9.4-7.9.5.pl : | 06:32 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Remove duplicates before adding a primary key to groupGroupings. | 06:32 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Fixes #11723. - http://bit.ly/dxSsRe | 06:32 |
| @scrottie | yeah, there really is one point of entry for this... WebGUI::Group::addGroups() with only that one admin using it. I'll write a trivial test or two tomorrow. packing it up here. | 06:35 |
| @scrottie | the group that got double added was 'Junior Admin'. that matches one of the groups in an asset I imported but I don't see any earthly way referencing that group in the asset could, in the import logic, cause the group to be double added. | 06:36 |
| * scrottie thinks outloud. or doesn't think, outloud. one or the other. | 06:36 | |
| @scrottie | and I don't see anything in the upgrade scripts, at a quick ack, that would bang that. the unit tests though are another story... | 06:38 |
| @scrottie | but off the top of my head, none of those reference that group. hmm. | 06:38 |
| @scrottie | the other dump that does trigger that apparently is still around. I'll try that in the morning too. | 06:41 |
| @scrottie | goodnight... | 06:41 |
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| SDuensin | FRIIIIIIIIIDAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY! | 17:20 |
| +MrHairgrease | yep | 17:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | only one hour to go | 17:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | and the it's weekend! | 17:30 |
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| * perlDreamer heads out for coffee, bbiab | 18:32 | |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra7cc369 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t): Update Tax.pm for Moose. - http://bit.ly/bA7bSj | 19:03 |
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| zylopfa | Greetings webguians | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | hola, zylopfa | 19:11 |
| @preaction | mornin | 19:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | morning, scrottie | 19:36 |
| @scrottie | morning, perlDreamer | 19:36 |
| zylopfa | Greetings fine scrottie | 19:36 |
| @scrottie | howdy zylopfa | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, Haaarg, you JavaScript::Packer patch was accepted and released | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | but no nows on CSS::Packer and HTML::Packer | 19:37 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r0647287 / www/extras/admin/admin.js : remove kludge by updating location manually - http://bit.ly/cKnmIW | 19:39 |
| zylopfa | I made an Email.pm asset, to delete all email assets (there are no collateral tables), is it enough just to delete the Email table in the database? | 19:53 |
| zylopfa | or are their assetId's stored in other tables aswell? | 19:53 |
| @preaction | asset, assetData, and if you inherited from wobject, wobject | 19:54 |
| @preaction | you should really delete assets from the API using ->purge | 19:54 |
| zylopfa | its because i wanna uninstall my pop3 mail system and try to install it like a user would | 19:54 |
| @preaction | or, 7.8 and 7.9 include a sbin/fixBrokenAssets.pl script that can delete them for you if they get corrupted | 19:54 |
| @preaction | are you using the sbin/installClass.pl? your uninstall sub should do this: | 19:55 |
| zylopfa | sweet, you are fast to answer correctly! | 19:55 |
| @preaction | for ( WebGUI::Asset::Email->getIsa( ) ) { $_->purge } | 19:55 |
| zylopfa | ohh sweet then it deletes them all in a good way | 19:55 |
| @preaction | you'll ahve to look up getIsa, it's in WebGUI::Asset somewhere | 19:55 |
| @preaction | right | 19:56 |
| @preaction | getIsa returns an iterator, which is a fancy way of saying "subref that returns a single item when called" | 19:56 |
| zylopfa | So i reckon it will look through the system of all the Email assets and their corresponding assetId | 19:56 |
| @preaction | so it's more like: my $iter = getIsa(...); while ( my $asset = $iter->() ) { $asset->purge } | 19:56 |
| @preaction | it will instantiate every Email asset in the system and then purge them | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | and you need to handle undef, and exceptions inside the loop | 19:56 |
| @preaction | we have an example somewhere, no? | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | perldoc Asset.pm, /getIsa | 19:57 |
| @preaction | also, boilerplate needs to die. die. die. die. die. die. die. die. | 19:57 |
| zylopfa | my popo3 email system is soon finished | 19:57 |
| zylopfa | pop3 even | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, if you can design out the need for handling undef and exceptions, I'm all for it | 19:57 |
| zylopfa | its a light weight webmail system that gets emails from pop3 | 19:57 |
| @preaction | if you intend to release to bazaar, i highly suggest looking at sbin/installClass.pl for your install procedure | 19:58 |
| zylopfa | isnt that for 7.9 or so? | 19:58 |
| zylopfa | I found some install class | 19:58 |
| zylopfa | where oyu inherrit from installable | 19:58 |
| @preaction | installClass.pl has been around since 7.6 i believe | 19:58 |
| @preaction | yes, that one | 19:58 |
| zylopfa | ahh yeah i was wanting to do that yeah sweet | 19:58 |
| @preaction | best thing is that it magically installs the asset by introspecting the definition | 19:59 |
| zylopfa | as far as Workflow Activities you have to install em normally right? or i can make an install wrapper | 19:59 |
| zylopfa | yeah preaction I read it yesterday its damn sweet | 19:59 |
| @preaction | add the install for those to sub install { } in your asset | 19:59 |
| zylopfa | all you need to do is purge the collatteral or make the colatteral if you got | 19:59 |
| @preaction | so by installing the asset, they install all the collateral workflow activities and template packages | 20:00 |
| zylopfa | I want the installation of the system to be no sweat to the users | 20:00 |
| zylopfa | The system i make isnt complete but its a very good pointer so people can see what you can do with webgui, making the things work together and not re-inventing everything | 20:01 |
| zylopfa | Its kind of wierd my design desission to have Email assets also contain functions to send the mail | 20:02 |
| zylopfa | The idea at first was to make it only contain email data and no functionality | 20:03 |
| zylopfa | like the Article asset | 20:03 |
| zylopfa | but then i thought you can let the user make Email.pm assets with predefined content for stationarys and such and call | 20:03 |
| zylopfa | EMailAssetThing?func=emailForm | 20:04 |
| zylopfa | to send email using the Emails predefined fields | 20:04 |
| zylopfa | gotta explain my aproach thouroughly though in the manual | 20:04 |
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| zylopfa | welcome plainhao | 21:06 |
| plainhao | hi, zylopfa | 21:06 |
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| zylopfa | Anyone know this. I am making a form_message template variable in my code as a html area | 21:38 |
| zylopfa | but somehow it wont accept the value i give it | 21:38 |
| zylopfa | Well it will kind of, it will show it in the textarea html box, but if i edit the box to put additional text it will not submit it when i submit its form | 21:39 |
| zylopfa | it will only submit the predefined text, and not the additional added by the user | 21:40 |
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| ITILGuy | Hello Everyone... | 21:47 |
| ITILGuy | Anyone know where I can get a detailed details list? | 21:47 |
| ITILGuy | Huh... "detailed details" list = "detailed FEATURES" list... sorry... no caffeine today. ;o) | 21:48 |
| @bopbop | ITILGuy - I can email you one | 21:48 |
| @bopbop | you can send me your email address at kristi@plainblack.com | 21:48 |
| ITILGuy | You rock, bopbop. | 21:48 |
| @bopbop | I've got a pdf I can pass along | 21:48 |
| ITILGuy | Will do. | 21:48 |
| ITILGuy | Sending now... Done. | 21:49 |
| ITILGuy | Thanks again, bopbop. | 21:49 |
| @bopbop | no problem | 21:49 |
| ITILGuy | Adios... | 21:50 |
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| zylopfa | Does anyone know how i can pass a value to a HTMLArea, where this value contains HTML | 22:40 |
| zylopfa | when i do it in the code the resulting htmlarea form gets corrupted | 22:41 |
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| zylopfa | Anone who can help with a small problem? | 23:17 |
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| @scrottie | zylopfa, you can try pasting a snippet of code showing what you're doing. | 00:07 |
| zylopfa | I figured it out now friend, was some instance of my Email asset i had in the folder that didnt have some of the new field descriptions | 00:09 |
| zylopfa | but thanks a lot | 00:09 |
| zylopfa | its gonna be a kick ass webmail system i am making | 00:11 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Paul Driver master * r35efc69 / lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm : reduce memory usage while importing packages - http://bit.ly/9MGPQZ | 01:40 |
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| @scrottie | hrhrmm. | 01:49 |
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| zylopfa | Anyone familiar with adding a "workflowActivity" to the config file? | 15:32 |
| zylopfa | I have seen how you add a Asset to it in code but i cant figure out how to add a workflow activity | 15:33 |
| zylopfa | I fail at the datastructure thing :( | 15:33 |
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| @preaction | zylopfa: you need to choose what kind of object the workflowactivity works against and then: $config->addToHash( 'workflowActivities/My::Object::Type', 'My::Activity::Type' ); | 18:08 |
| zylopfa | Greetings fine preaction !! | 18:08 |
| zylopfa | I found out myself, not so elegant but i did | 18:09 |
| zylopfa | my $value = $config->get("workflowActivities"); | 18:09 |
| zylopfa | my $array = $value->{"None"}; | 18:09 |
| zylopfa | push @$array,"$class"; | 18:09 |
| zylopfa | $value->{"None"} = $array; | 18:09 |
| zylopfa | $config->set("workflowActivities",$value); | 18:09 |
| zylopfa | I am making documentation now for my pop3 webmail system and some installation script | 18:10 |
| zylopfa | finished the pop3 webmailer for webgui now if anyone would care to check it out | 20:40 |
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| daviddelikat | anybody know if I can just put a new version of WRE code over an old version and go, or is there some recommended upgrade process? | 02:53 |
| @preaction | what version of WRE? | 02:57 |
| @preaction | if it's pre 0.8, there is a special procedure | 02:57 |
| daviddelikat | I'm going from 9.1 to 9.3 | 03:00 |
| daviddelikat | ( 0.9.1 --> 0.9.3 ) | 03:01 |
| @preaction | then just lay it over the top and run sbin/wreupgrade.pl | 03:01 |
| daviddelikat | thanks | 03:01 |
| @preaction | check docs/upgrade.txt too | 03:01 |
| daviddelikat | k | 03:02 |
| ColinHarman | Question: when doing ui layout for web, do you use photoshop, fireworks, or something else? Why? | 03:04 |
| @preaction | i use omnigraffle, because it works for me | 03:04 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 17:03 |
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| @scrottie | the setup wizard won't go away in my WebGUI8. just for context, how much has the UI been worked out on this thing? I know tests are in horrifyingly good shape. | 22:52 |
| @preaction | the UI hasn't been worked out very well | 22:53 |
| @preaction | delete from settings where name="specialState"; <- should work | 22:54 |
| @preaction | oh, and put a bug on http://webgui.org/8 if you can. if you can't i'll add you | 22:54 |
| @scrottie | hrm. I don't see a link to open a ticket on webgui.org/8 but I know I have access to the other one. different? yeah, add me when you get a chance. | 22:58 |
| @preaction | k | 23:16 |
| @preaction | done | 23:18 |
| * scrottie gives a tip of the imaginary hat | 23:19 | |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Scott Walters WebGUI8 * rf2561a7 / lib/WebGUI/HTMLForm.pm : Don't AUTOLOAD calls to DESTROY. Avoids Could not load WebGUI::Form::DESTROY because Can't locate WebGUI/Form/DESTROY.pm in /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Pluggable.pm line 247. - http://bit.ly/92EKxK | 01:18 |
| @scrottie | let me know if that isn't too minor for a helpdesk ticket. | 01:18 |
| @frodwith | scrottie: does autoload catch perl's DESTROY calls, or was something calling DESTROY explicitly? | 01:51 |
| @preaction | no, that's not too minor, but that might be 7.x bugworthy. | 01:51 |
| @preaction | 8.x is getting rid of WebGUI::Form thank god | 01:52 |
| @scrottie | frodwith, AUTOLOAD gets DESTROY events. | 01:55 |
| @scrottie | it's annoying. | 01:55 |
| @frodwith | another reason not to use AUTOLOAD. | 01:56 |
| @preaction | http://gist.github.com/482174 <- does this make logical sense? i think i got it right | 01:56 |
| @frodwith | I think that one might actually be cited in PBP, now that I think of it | 01:56 |
| @preaction | it is, that's one more reason WebGUI::Form's going away | 01:56 |
| @frodwith | You could do it more sanely with whatever that module is that loads all the modules in a particular namespace, then installing subs in WebGUI::Form for the right ones | 01:58 |
| @preaction | Module::Pluggable, or WebGUI::Pluggable | 01:58 |
| @preaction | yeah, but i want ::Form gone. it's not introspectable, it's not editable (it works with raw HTML for crap's sake) | 01:58 |
| @frodwith | yeah, no argument here | 01:58 |
| @frodwith | *hates it* | 01:59 |
| @scrottie | would it be bad form to write a command line script to create and close bugs, tagged with a commit hash? | 01:59 |
| @frodwith | Sounds to me like -excellent- form. | 01:59 |
| @preaction | no, that'd be great | 01:59 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Scott Walters WebGUI8 * ra8e179a / lib/WebGUI/Wizard/Setup.pm : We call directly into WebGUI::Wizard::HomePage, but it isn't necessary loaded it. 'use' it. - http://bit.ly/bvp8lL | 02:06 |
| @scrottie | hrm. still not seeing a link on http://www.webgui.org/8 to open a ticket. do I need to relog or anything silly like that? | 02:11 |
| @preaction | you shouldn't have to, but try it? | 02:21 |
| @preaction | or perhaps browser cache | 02:21 |
| @scrottie | I run without a cache just so that's not a possibility ;) | 02:22 |
| @scrottie | nope. maybe I need to enable ActiveScripting. | 02:24 |
| * scrottie snickers | 02:24 | |
| @scrottie | we can deal with this later too. | 02:25 |
| @scrottie | 'scottwalters' on that site, btw. | 02:26 |
| @preaction | yeah, you're in the right group | 02:26 |
| @preaction | i could clear the server cache, that might clear it up | 02:26 |
| @preaction | okay, try now | 02:27 |
| @scrottie | no go. the link should be right by the subscribe/unsubscribe link. at least that's where I'm looking for it. | 02:28 |
| @preaction | yeah | 02:28 |
| @preaction | are you logged in? | 02:29 |
| @scrottie | "Hello scottwalters" | 02:31 |
| @preaction | damn. i became you and i can see it | 02:32 |
| @preaction | oh well, i'll diagnose that one more tomorrow | 02:32 |
| @scrottie | strange. alright. no problem. | 02:32 |
| @preaction | gotta get these offsite backups working so we aren't naked in the breeze if the brand-new servers spontaneously explode | 02:32 |
| @scrottie | yes. | 02:34 |
| @scrottie | don't worry about this. I'll remind you later. | 02:34 |
| @scrottie | pie. | 02:56 |
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| spacebat | hi, I'm trying to get webgui running on a server that's running other things, so I'm not using the WRE | 06:07 |
| spacebat | the one hiccup I'm having trouble with is setting the location of log.conf | 06:08 |
| spacebat | though my apache2 config points to the right place PerlSetVar WebguiRoot /usr/local/webgui | 06:09 |
| spacebat | for some reason apache fails to start with that site enabled, because /data/WebGUI/etc/log.conf cannot be found | 06:09 |
| spacebat | all instances of /data/WebGUI in the config have been replaced with /usr/local/webgui | 06:10 |
| spacebat | so its a bit mysterious why /data/WebGUI is coming up at all | 06:11 |
| @preaction | including in /usr/local/webgui/sbin/preload.perl ? | 06:11 |
| spacebat | I'll have a look | 06:12 |
| @preaction | you could just put WebGUI in /data/WebGUI and just let it alone | 06:12 |
| spacebat | I'm not a fan of creating random directories under / | 06:13 |
| @preaction | you'd rather edit the WebGUI source each time you upgrade | 06:13 |
| spacebat | you're right, preload.perl had /data/WebGUI hard coded | 06:13 |
| spacebat | I'd rather run something that relied on a config file for that | 06:13 |
| @preaction | though i hope by 8 we'll be away from that stupid /data/WebGUI jazz | 06:13 |
| spacebat | and where possible uses DRY to avoid jumping around keeping files consistent | 06:14 |
| spacebat | yes I hope so | 06:14 |
| @preaction | well 8 uses plack, no more mod_perl requirement | 06:14 |
| @preaction | ooodles faster, working on complete installation from CPAN | 06:15 |
| spacebat | nice | 06:15 |
| @preaction | i'd prefer a /webroot/sitename/webgui.conf sort of thing, but that's in the future | 06:15 |
| spacebat | we're a mod_perl shop | 06:15 |
| spacebat | but plack can work with MP2 I think | 06:15 |
| @preaction | yes | 06:15 |
| spacebat | where do the speed improvements come from? | 06:16 |
| @preaction | just won't be as fast as say, starman | 06:16 |
| @preaction | just from being away from mod_perl2 is a huge improvement | 06:16 |
| spacebat | oh | 06:16 |
| @preaction | using nginx as the reverse proxy is a huge improvement too | 06:16 |
| @preaction | new caching mechanism in 8 (also in 7.9, but you have to configure it) | 06:16 |
| spacebat | we'll not be able to use nginx - the uni I work for is conservative | 06:17 |
| @preaction | i mean, apache/modperl2 can still be in front of the plack server, but it slows things down (modperl2 is more than just serving web requests, it's apache modules in Perl) | 06:17 |
| @preaction | eh, apache mod_proxy works just as well | 06:17 |
| spacebat | yes | 06:17 |
| @preaction | or even psgi as a CGI if you want ;) | 06:17 |
| @preaction | now all we need to do is get away from the mysql requirement | 06:18 |
| spacebat | we're restricted in what underlying tech we can use, eg must be on redhat enterprise | 06:18 |
| spacebat | not my first choice :) | 06:18 |
| @preaction | and be installable from CPAN of course (which implies relocatable root) | 06:18 |
| @preaction | eh, i'd prefer debian, but i maintain a dozen centos 5 boxen that aren't so bad | 06:19 |
| @preaction | apt > yum no question though | 06:19 |
| @preaction | but yes, that one place in preload.perl should be the only place /data/WebGUI is hardcoded | 06:19 |
| @preaction | and there might be a way to set the webguiRoot from the Apache config file before preload.perl is run, getting rid of the problem (i'll accept that patch) | 06:20 |
| @preaction | we've just never had anyone care enough yet to actually do it and test it and everything | 06:20 |
| @preaction | hell, i think right now i'm running a symlink from /Users/.../WebGUI to /data/WebGUI just so i don't have to deal with it when I update from git | 06:21 |
| spacebat | :) | 06:22 |
| spacebat | next up spectre was looking for its config in /usr/local/etc not /usr/local/webgui/etc but I worked around that with a symlink | 06:22 |
| spacebat | now it can't connect to the database, probably need to fiddle with the mysql server now | 06:23 |
| @preaction | is spectre in /usr/local/webgui/sbin? | 06:23 |
| spacebat | yes | 06:23 |
| @preaction | hmm... then it should look in ../etc | 06:24 |
| @preaction | did you run it from cd /usr/local/webgui/sbin? | 06:24 |
| spacebat | ah, I ran it from /usr/local/webgui as etc/spectre.pl :) | 06:24 |
| spacebat | FindBin is your friend | 06:25 |
| @preaction | another thing nobody's ever cared enough to fix, but really __FILE__ would work (not sure FindBin is really necessary anymore) | 06:26 |
| @preaction | the WebGUI debian package relocates the webgui stuff, perhaps you can steal some code from them? | 06:27 |
| spacebat | ok I'm at the initial admin screen, but its all white because /extras isn't mapped properly (my bad no doubt) | 06:27 |
| spacebat | actually I'm setting this up on ubuntu, but I wanted to run the latest as our production servers are RHEL | 06:28 |
| @preaction | yeah, Alias /extras /usr/share/webgui/extras or someting | 06:29 |
| @preaction | http://packages.debian.org/sid/web/webgui <- if you download the "webgui_7.8.23-1.debian.tar.gz" there's a patches directory to show how Debian did it. you could even make an RPM out of it | 06:29 |
| @preaction | but all those patches they have to do I hope to make obsolete. all the WebGUI libs should be in @INC anyway | 06:30 |
| @preaction | that alone would do it | 06:30 |
| spacebat | thanks | 06:31 |
| spacebat | ok I've started going through the setup wizard, and its time for lunch | 06:34 |
| spacebat | cheers | 06:34 |
| spacebat | ok I'm getting a drowning sensation, will have to start RTFM | 08:06 |
| @preaction | if you need help with the UI, look up the "WebGUI Primer" | 08:21 |
| @preaction | also look up "How to give WebGUI your own style", it's a good intro to the basics | 08:22 |
| spacebat | cool | 08:34 |
| spacebat | what we've got at the moment is an in-house CMS of sorts that operates on the filesystem | 08:35 |
| spacebat | sites can be nested and permissions are by site, and can propagate to child or sub sites | 08:35 |
| spacebat | in this context a subsite is just a subdirectory that has a site definition in the database | 08:36 |
| spacebat | the database app then creates an apache config that can publish working virtual host configs, for dev/uat or production | 08:37 |
| spacebat | from my brief look at WG, it looks quite free-form; is it possible to restrict the actions of a user/group to only affect URLs in a given portion of the namespace? | 08:38 |
| spacebat | we're under threat from a java liferay/campuseai portal that is being sold as the one site to rule them all | 08:52 |
| spacebat | naturally, we'd rather stick to open source perl for our purposes and restrict the java portal to internal sites/apps | 08:54 |
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| +bartjol | mmm, I can't seem to be able to access i18n.webgui.org | 14:04 |
| +bartjol | but then in corretc language | 14:04 |
| +bartjol | correct | 14:05 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:22 |
| +bartjol | mogge | 16:24 |
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| @preaction | bartjol: it's down, give me a day or two to fix | 17:28 |
| +bartjol | ah, well, I won't come swimming to you to haunt you | 17:29 |
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| zylopfa | Greetings Webguians! | 17:54 |
| +bartjol | howdy | 17:56 |
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| -!- wue [5a02befd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.2.190.253] has joined #webgui | 18:03 | |
| wue | Hi | 18:05 |
| wue | For how many times webgui.org has been lagging? | 18:05 |
| @preaction | we're having some sign-in problems on webgui.org, we'll get them fixed shortly | 18:07 |
| zylopfa | awesome preaction | 18:07 |
| wue | Ok have you been hacked too? Cause I've been phished. I've posted on wg.org | 18:09 |
| wue | Here is a screenshot :http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4258/spamrz.png | 18:09 |
| @preaction | anyone who registers on webgui.org can post to the bug list. the url is www.plainback.com, not plainblack | 18:10 |
| wue | I know, and links are directed to an exe file. | 18:11 |
| wue | and the subject was : try the new webgui application | 18:11 |
| wue | but I haven't use my email address on any webgui related website other than wg.org | 18:12 |
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| zylopfa | preaction, isnt the backing firm | 18:22 |
| zylopfa | site plainblack.com? | 18:22 |
| @preaction | yes, our company is plain black. not plain back | 18:23 |
| zylopfa | yeah | 18:23 |
| zylopfa | why would peeps go to plainback? | 18:23 |
| @preaction | so some fun little social engineering and a spoofed from: address creates chaos | 18:24 |
| @preaction | because not everyone reads closely | 18:24 |
| zylopfa | ahh yeah ofc | 18:25 |
| @preaction | webgui.org sign-in is fixed | 18:43 |
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| zylopfa | good work :D | 18:54 |
| zylopfa | preaction, what wobject would you love to see on the bazaar? | 19:18 |
| @preaction | i don't rightly know, we've got just about anything one could want | 19:20 |
| zylopfa | yeah true words | 19:20 |
| @preaction | i had a chatbox thing that technically works but is by no means feature-complete | 19:20 |
| zylopfa | I'd love to make something for webgui though that people want | 19:20 |
| @preaction | that'd be nice to be put into WebGUI core | 19:20 |
| zylopfa | yeah or a helpline wobject | 19:20 |
| @preaction | we have HelpDesk, we're working on v2 | 19:21 |
| zylopfa | yeah but i ment chat like help line | 19:21 |
| zylopfa | could be used for many things though | 19:21 |
| @preaction | http://github.com/preaction/wg-chatbox <- there's the beginnings of one, it works, but it's not core-ready | 19:21 |
| @preaction | it has no unit tests, it's not i18ned | 19:21 |
| @preaction | and it could use a lot more features | 19:21 |
| zylopfa | ahh so just small bits | 19:21 |
| @preaction | ooh, a private-chat system would be nice as a WebGUI::Account plugin | 19:22 |
| zylopfa | yeah | 19:22 |
| zylopfa | I just made a webmail system for webgui | 19:22 |
| @preaction | WebGUI::Operation::Workflow needs a complete overhaul in the UI department | 19:22 |
| zylopfa | so you can fetch mail from pop3 and it gets into the mail system i made | 19:22 |
| zylopfa | and you can write mail out from it also | 19:22 |
| @preaction | otherwise there's the RFE list, http://webgui.org/rfe | 19:23 |
| zylopfa | yeah I think i will be more active in there | 19:23 |
| zylopfa | I go by many names perhaps i should also cut down on those | 19:23 |
| @preaction | they're ranked by "Karma", which means the top ones are the ones people want the most | 19:23 |
| zylopfa | I am Zylopfa and Peter Bryde and Titlandata | 19:23 |
| zylopfa | i will look at it preaction | 19:23 |
| zylopfa | but how can you know if you do one of them that someone is not already on it? | 19:24 |
| @preaction | because if someone's doing it they usually post to the RFE about it | 19:24 |
| zylopfa | ahh ok | 19:24 |
| @preaction | also, if you have a github account, you should fork webgui and commit to your fork so we can integrate your changes into Core | 19:24 |
| @preaction | or if you want to help out on WebGUI 8, there's http://webgui.org/8 (all backend / API stuff, but the more help we get the better 8 will be) | 19:25 |
| zylopfa | sweett | 19:25 |
| zylopfa | thanks a lot preaction ! | 19:25 |
| zylopfa | I also thought of something | 19:26 |
| @preaction | i'm sure i'll be the one thanking you soon ;) | 19:26 |
| zylopfa | but i dont know if its too risky | 19:26 |
| zylopfa | To make a package system so you could import wobjects and workflows also | 19:27 |
| zylopfa | But I guess its too risky for people to be able to do that | 19:27 |
| @preaction | not really, it's part of the plan to extend the package system like that eventually, it's just a huge amount of work | 19:27 |
| zylopfa | yeah my new contribution i tried to make an install.pl file to do it all | 19:28 |
| zylopfa | but its very difficullt to tailor to multiple versions | 19:28 |
| zylopfa | The package system for templates etc. is genious | 19:29 |
| zylopfa | Also in general the templating system is genious | 19:29 |
| zylopfa | complete seperation of code and markup | 19:29 |
| @preaction | eh, H::T sucks, TT is better, we hope to move to TT soon. http://template-toolkit.org | 19:30 |
| zylopfa | :O | 19:31 |
| zylopfa | why does it suck? | 19:31 |
| zylopfa | Does the new one have a steep learning curve? | 19:31 |
| @preaction | because it looks too much like HTML, and it's extremely ungodly slow | 19:31 |
| zylopfa | ohh :O | 19:31 |
| @preaction | it's slow to parse, it's slow to munge your data into a format that it can understand | 19:32 |
| zylopfa | well the slow part is not so good iimo | 19:32 |
| @preaction | in 8, the two biggest performance bottlenecks we have are DBI (so database queries, which is expected) and H::T | 19:32 |
| zylopfa | yeah a lot of those | 19:32 |
| @preaction | that isn't to say 8 is slow, it's oodles and oodles faster, but it can be faster still | 19:32 |
| zylopfa | i heard you shift to another database format? | 19:32 |
| @preaction | no, we're making SQLite possible so that we can get on CPANTS | 19:33 |
| zylopfa | ahh nice | 19:33 |
| zylopfa | Are you guys worried about mysql and Oracle? | 19:33 |
| @preaction | not really, there are a half-dozen forks of mysql, and we used to support postgres, it won't be hard if we have to migrate | 19:34 |
| zylopfa | Sweet | 19:34 |
| zylopfa | isnt postgres good? it used to be standard some years ago in redhat | 19:34 |
| @preaction | it's great, but it's a pain to install and set up | 19:34 |
| zylopfa | ahh :/ | 19:35 |
| @preaction | and i haven't seen anything that has changed that in recent years | 19:35 |
| zylopfa | curse it to hell!!! | 19:35 |
| zylopfa | Are you getting a lot of heat for not supporting win? | 19:35 |
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| zylopfa | welcome here perlDreamer | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | good morning, zylopfa | 19:36 |
| @preaction | zylopfa: no, we aren't. | 19:36 |
| zylopfa | good!! | 19:36 |
| zylopfa | I would give you heat if you where ;D | 19:36 |
| zylopfa | were | 19:37 |
| @preaction | and it's not that we don't support it, it's that there's no WRE for it | 19:37 |
| @preaction | 8 will actually have better support for windows | 19:37 |
| zylopfa | well it should run the best os for it imo | 19:38 |
| zylopfa | + the wre you got for linux is awesome | 19:38 |
| zylopfa | who maintains that btw? | 19:38 |
| @preaction | we do, plain black | 19:39 |
| @preaction | 8 will have better windows support because it runs on a pure-perl web server called "Starman" | 19:39 |
| @preaction | (or any other web server that supports PSGI) | 19:40 |
| zylopfa | :O wtf? | 19:40 |
| zylopfa | it doesnt run apache? | 19:40 |
| @preaction | so along with Strawberry Perl, we could probably bundle up a new windows-webgui runtime environment | 19:40 |
| @preaction | apache has a mod_psgi, and Plack has a mod_perl2 binding, so yes it can run under apache | 19:41 |
| zylopfa | but isnt pure perl as webserver eyebleeding slow? | 19:41 |
| @preaction | the point is that it doesn't have to | 19:41 |
| zylopfa | ohh | 19:41 |
| @preaction | look up the stats on Starman, you'll be surprised | 19:41 |
| @preaction | i was surprised, Starman is damn fast | 19:41 |
| zylopfa | I will look, it must be a persistant perl thing then | 19:41 |
| zylopfa | else it takes ages | 19:41 |
| @preaction | i believe starman beat apache/mod_perl2, but came in behind nginx | 19:41 |
| @preaction | (but then, nginx is only slightly slower than that kernel httpd module) | 19:42 |
| zylopfa | Thats pretty amazing stats | 19:43 |
| zylopfa | you aret laying on the lazy side in plainblack | 19:44 |
| @preaction | yeah, the 8 WRE is going to be nginx in front of a starman server for WebGUI. it's going to be awesome | 19:44 |
| zylopfa | I love that webgui is perl based, was the sole reason i sat down and got familar with it | 19:45 |
| zylopfa | I needed some cms system for business, but not anyone | 19:45 |
| zylopfa | I searched for "perl based cms" | 19:45 |
| zylopfa | And I havent looked back since | 19:45 |
| zylopfa | I feel confined in other programming languages | 19:46 |
| @preaction | yeah, there are a couple other ones out there, but nothing with the breadth of features as WebGUI | 19:46 |
| zylopfa | The thing i love with webgui is the api | 19:46 |
| zylopfa | and the dataform!!! | 19:47 |
| zylopfa | I am gonna quit my daytime job soon and concentrate on webgui | 19:47 |
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| @preaction | zylopfa: awesome | 19:47 |
| zylopfa | someone in the webbusiness took $1200 to make a "refer a friend" thing for a website | 19:48 |
| zylopfa | Its stealing, i'd have included it free in the project if i got to host it | 19:48 |
| zylopfa | I only make webgui solutions i get to host myself | 19:49 |
| zylopfa | dont know of anyone hosting webgui in my country either though | 19:49 |
| +perlDreamer | zylopfa, do people really worry about having "native" hosting in Europe? | 19:57 |
| zylopfa | not at all :D | 19:57 |
| zylopfa | Well I hope not, they never asked me where i got my servers | 19:57 |
| zylopfa | I got mine in a datacenter in germany | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | It's certainly gotta be nice though, when someone speaks your language | 19:58 |
| zylopfa | yeah true | 19:58 |
| zylopfa | My main thing is making custom apps | 19:58 |
| zylopfa | I outsource the design business | 19:58 |
| zylopfa | and the hosting bit ofc | 19:58 |
| zylopfa | i take care of myself also on rented serverspace | 19:59 |
| zylopfa | the thing that is hard with webgui i think is upgrading, if you have a lot of sites on 1 server | 20:00 |
| zylopfa | its not hard as such but much to do with backups and making sure everything works | 20:01 |
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| zylopfa | greetings plainhao | 20:05 |
| plainhao | hi, zylopfa | 20:05 |
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| zylopfa | welcome here fokat | 20:08 |
| fokat | zylopfa, thanks | 20:09 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4f02168 / etc/WebGUI.conf.original : Fix copy/paste bug in config docs. - http://bit.ly/bDRXnl | 20:26 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r4f4ad52 / etc/WebGUI.conf.original : Fix copy/paste bug in config docs. - http://bit.ly/dbZEzV | 20:27 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r7ba343a / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add spamStopWords to default WebGUI config file, and add upgrade snippet. Fixes bug #11721. - http://bit.ly/aDJQZb | 20:45 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0cfa3f9 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add spamStopWords to default WebGUI config file, and add upgrade snippet. Fixes bug #11721. - http://bit.ly/9XfXW7 | 20:46 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2e46569 / (2 files): move upgrade sub to correct version. - http://bit.ly/aRUWGT | 20:46 |
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| CIA-59 | webgui: Scott Walters master * r3f52bd3 / lib/WebGUI/HTMLForm.pm : Don't AUTOLOAD calls to DESTROY. Avoids Could not load WebGUI::Form::DESTROY because Can't locate WebGUI/Form/DESTROY.pm in /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Pluggable.pm line 247. - http://bit.ly/af7R0O | 21:47 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Scott Walters master * r031309a / (lib/WebGUI/Form.pm lib/WebGUI/FormValidator.pm): Ignore calls to DESTROY in AUTOLOAD, as a matter of policy. - http://bit.ly/a8ZhHz | 21:47 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Scott Walters WebGUI8 * re88365c / (lib/WebGUI/Form.pm lib/WebGUI/FormValidator.pm): Ignore calls to DESTROY in AUTOLOAD, as a matter of policy. - http://bit.ly/drq2F8 | 21:47 |
| @scrottie | the method signature for WebGUI8::Session::open changed but the docs didn't. is the change intentional? | 22:05 |
| @scrottie | er, WebGUI8's WebGUI::Session::open. | 22:06 |
| @scrottie | it isn't shifting webguiRoot off of the argument stack and is using what's passed as webguiRoot as the config file... boom: Couldn't parse JSON in config file '/data/WebGUI' | 22:08 |
| @scrottie | kinda yak shaving here... I really did mean to work on existing bugs but I keep tripping over stuff. | 22:09 |
| @scrottie | okay, going to "fix" it and see if tests still pass. | 22:10 |
| @preaction | open() shouldn't take a webguiroot anymore, right | 22:12 |
| @preaction | it should get it from WebGUI::Paths | 22:12 |
| @scrottie | cool. | 22:13 |
| @scrottie | in that case, docpatch. | 22:13 |
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| @scrottie | food & | 22:20 |
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| --- Day changed Wed Jul 21 2010 | ||
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| Haaarg | anyone else having problems connecting to webgui.org? i can't access it locally, but i can through a server elsewhere. | 00:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haaarg, it's working for me | 00:36 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie, it seems strange to me that in 5 years no else has seen that error or warning about HTMLForm | 00:39 |
| +perlDreamer | how did you come across it? | 00:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie, how did you come across that warning about HTMLForm? | 00:59 |
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| @scrottie | webgui.log... I stuck a Carp::confess in there to get this: | 01:01 |
| @scrottie | http://gist.github.com/483669 | 01:01 |
| @scrottie | that was a result of (on a lark) trying to use the new site wizard. no -d on wgd reset. | 01:02 |
| @scrottie | on WebGUI8. | 01:02 |
| @scrottie | waitress wouldn't let me leave until I finished all the food she brought me. ugh. and I couldn't get wifi to work. then I realized as soon as got home that I left wpa_supplicant running and that keeps dhclient from connecting to open networks. | 01:03 |
| @scrottie | bleah. | 01:03 |
| @scrottie | I didn't investigate why that (or the other bug) kept the wizard from working in 8 but not in 7. | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | odd | 01:08 |
| @scrottie | actually, now that I say that outloud, I've never attempted to use the new site wizard in WebGUI7 so it might not work for me, and it might be that 5.12 has different object tear down policies. | 01:12 |
| @scrottie | 5.12 might be breaking the new site wizard in 7 too for all I know. | 01:12 |
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| Haaarg | i ripped out a number of DESTROY subs that didn't do anything. i may have mistakenly removed that one even though it was needed due to the AUTOLOAD. | 01:25 |
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| @scrottie | I'm afraid to even ask so I'm going to ask then cover my eyes, plug my ears, and go afk before anyone can answer... but... any opinions on terrible back-compat shims in the API like this? http://github.com/scrottie/webgui/commit/0a187cc0e1602aa151c2e0040df11a018d8b0193 | 04:35 |
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| @preaction | scrottie: my opinion is usually against them, especially right now that we have the chance to fix APIs. once 8.0.0 is released, though, the API gets it's "backwards-compatible" label on it and we'll add fun little things like that again | 06:41 |
| @preaction | something i'd like to have are Perl::Critic policies that detects old API calls and suggests the new ones, for migration help | 06:42 |
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| --- Log opened Wed Jul 21 23:28:26 2010 | ||
| thepacmanfan | should i be able to access something at port 60834 after the install is done? i rebooted afterwards. | 23:28 |
| xdanger | yeay! the air coolers compressor died today at our datacenter and the only spare was about 300km away... | 23:36 |
| thepacmanfan | awesomesauce. | 23:37 |
| @preaction | thepacmanfan: no. the wreconsole only runs while you're using it. if you want it again, you have to run it | 23:40 |
| thepacmanfan | k. i'm running through testEnvironment.pl right now, and it found a bunch of modules that needed to be updated/installed... including ImageMagick. fun. | 23:41 |
| @preaction | it shouldn't have to update imagemagick | 23:45 |
| @preaction | you need to source in the WRE's environment in your shell: source /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh | 23:45 |
| thepacmanfan | i guess ImageMagick is fine... it's module Image::Magick | 23:46 |
| @preaction | it shouldn't have to | 23:46 |
| thepacmanfan | full log of testEnvironment.pl: http://pastebin.com/eWcv7mN5 | 23:48 |
| @preaction | did you source in the WRE's environment? | 23:48 |
| thepacmanfan | that looks much better... sorry man, that suggestion went right through my head :( | 23:51 |
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| @scrottie | hrm. trying to install the helpdesk under 8 was just silly. plackup starts up so much more quickly than Apache. I'm hooked on that. but helpdesk doesn't seem much happier on 7.9.9. I hate to bang the production bug tracker while testing a robot. I guess I'll just be as delicate as I can. | 03:14 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie, helpdesk is an asset | 04:20 |
| +perlDreamer | unless it's translated to Moose definitions, it'll die really badly | 04:21 |
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| elnino | hi everyone! | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | elnino! | 06:43 |
| +perlDreamer | How's stuff, and babies, and houses? | 06:43 |
| elnino | did you figure out the flash thing? | 06:43 |
| +perlDreamer | No. | 06:43 |
| +perlDreamer | we punted | 06:43 |
| elnino | good, wonderful, and slow. | 06:43 |
| elnino | bummer. | 06:43 |
| +perlDreamer | it wasn't a show stopper | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | these are very nice, simple folk that run a kindergarden | 06:44 |
| elnino | the only thing I could think of was caching issues. but I'm sure you looked at that. | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | it wasn't caching, I'm sure it was remote image fetch, like you thought | 06:44 |
| elnino | oh yeah, I forgot about that. just weird. | 06:44 |
| +perlDreamer | but their new site is up, they're happy for now, and I have to schedule an on-site training with them | 06:44 |
| elnino | good. glad things are moving along. | 06:45 |
| +perlDreamer | me, too :) | 06:45 |
| +perlDreamer | Did the file download thing work out? | 06:45 |
| * elnino thinking... | 06:45 | |
| elnino | um.. I don't remembmer. | 06:46 |
| +perlDreamer | needed to add a person to a group so they could download a file after purchase | 06:46 |
| elnino | oh... that. | 06:46 |
| elnino | well. | 06:46 |
| elnino | this is a person that keeps asking me to do things but doesn't pay me. | 06:46 |
| elnino | so I haven't done anything. | 06:47 |
| +perlDreamer | that's very wise | 06:47 |
| +perlDreamer | and unfortunate | 06:47 |
| elnino | it's getting old. | 06:47 |
| elnino | where's the apache setting that can override the attachment size setting under admin-> settings? | 06:48 |
| elnino | I keep getting errors when uploading a 5M package. | 06:48 |
| +perlDreamer | it only overrides if it's smaller, not larger | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | and you'd have to search for wiki for that one | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know it off the top of my head | 06:49 |
| elnino | ok.and.. i'm using ads and onmy server they worked great, on this other servver (newer version) it seems that it broke, or functionality haschanged. | 06:51 |
| * elnino gets the versions. | 06:51 | |
| elnino | 7.8.20 vs | 06:52 |
| elnino | 7.7.28 | 06:52 |
| elnino | the 7.7.28 works great. | 06:52 |
| elnino | 7.8.20 doesn't | 06:52 |
| +perlDreamer | what does "doesn't" mean? | 06:52 |
| +perlDreamer | what's not working? | 06:52 |
| elnino | for one thing, when I upload a image as an ad, the image doesn't show up. | 06:52 |
| elnino | when I change the title of the ad, it changes the title of the adspace instead | 06:53 |
| elnino | I can't change the mimum impresssions. | 06:53 |
| elnino | for starters. | 06:53 |
| +perlDreamer | you can file those all as bugs, and we'll have a look at them | 06:54 |
| +perlDreamer | although, tavis uses the ad stuff pretty frequently, and we'd hear about it loudly if it didn't work | 06:54 |
| elnino | the image doesn't show up - means, that I don't see them there in the "ad space" manager area, and when I click on the filename that I *do* see, it doesn't show me the image. | 06:55 |
| elnino | well, and I did all this with changes not committed, so I was wondering if that had anything to do with it. | 06:55 |
| +perlDreamer | perhaps, but the ad title, minimum impressions thing shouldn't make a difference | 06:56 |
| elnino | there was another wobject like that where you had to create it, committ it, then you could continue ith. | 06:56 |
| +perlDreamer | but Ads don't work like that | 06:56 |
| elnino | s/ith/with it. | 06:56 |
| +perlDreamer | unless you're using the Ad Sku | 06:56 |
| +perlDreamer | and selling ads on your site | 06:56 |
| elnino | I dont' think so. I just went into adverstising. | 06:56 |
| elnino | I setup a ad space, and created ads in the ad space. | 06:57 |
| elnino | no sku, no stores. | 06:57 |
| elnino | I'll play iwht it more and see what happens. Ill writeup something if it still doens't work. | 06:58 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds god | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | good | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | if you just want to fix, and post a patch, that's okay too | 07:00 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 16:20 |
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| Guest847 | Hi I'm looking for the webgui API, but it appears to have been pulled from the site. Could anybody point me in the right direction? | 18:01 |
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| @preaction | Guest847: we're working on it. if you have WebGUI installed you have the API docs on your computer. cd /data/WebGUI/lib; perldoc WebGUI::Asset | 18:04 |
| Guest847 | Thanks | 18:04 |
| @preaction | i believe there's also a "perldochtml" command, or a way to export perldoc into HTML (pod2html perhaps?) | 18:05 |
| Guest847 | There doesn't appear to be in my distro | 18:11 |
| Guest847 | Ah, pod2html worked out well though | 18:13 |
| Guest847 | thanks | 18:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | hey, patspam! | 20:09 |
| +patspam | hi perlDreamer! sorry, been under the pump lately | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | it costs money to pay for bikes, coffee and oregon scotch ;) | 20:10 |
| +patspam | heh | 20:11 |
| +patspam | mmm oregon scotch! | 20:11 |
| +patspam | looking forward to that | 20:11 |
| +patspam | meanwhile, guess who's moving house again....... | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | no way! | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | what's up with that? | 20:11 |
| +patspam | well, this was just a 3 month lease | 20:11 |
| +patspam | we took it because we thought it'd be fun to live in Greenpoint for the summer | 20:12 |
| +patspam | which is is/was | 20:12 |
| +patspam | but it was never going to last - awesome house but our bedroom has no windows | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | good for privacy, bad for light | 20:12 |
| +patspam | yeah | 20:13 |
| +perlDreamer | so where do you go next in your tour of New York? | 20:13 |
| +patspam | might be staying on in the same building, finding out today | 20:13 |
| +patspam | really want to move into manhattan to experience the crazyness, but seems a bit out of our price range | 20:13 |
| * perlDreamer has no idea what the prices are like, but I can imagine | 20:15 | |
| +patspam | the biggest killer is that most of the share-houses aren't big enough to accommodate a couple | 20:15 |
| +patspam | unlike Brooklyn | 20:15 |
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| -!- ColinHarman|||| is now known as ColinHarman | 20:42 | |
| @preaction | i wonder if anyone knows that it's possible to add a workflow activity that would approve DataForm entries before they're added to the list? | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I didn't know that | 21:08 |
| @preaction | if you have saveData No in the dataform, the Add Item workflow still gets run with the correct data (and can then save the data) | 21:09 |
| @preaction | it's clever, which is bad, but it's possible | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | Sounds like a quick, evil wiki article | 21:15 |
| @preaction | you know what'd be nice? if i had 12 months to completely re-do all the documentation in and of webgui. content manager, designer, admin, and developer | 21:17 |
| @preaction | there are a lot of things that are possible and nobody knows are possible | 21:17 |
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| -!- ColinHarman is now known as ColinHarman| | 22:35 | |
| * perlDreamer is taking a lunch break | 23:01 | |
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| +perlDreamer | ColinHarman||, is the number of pipes in your name significant? | 23:30 |
| ColinHarman|| | perlDreamer: no, Linkinus keeps adding them each time I come back from away. Rather obnoxious really. | 23:31 |
| -!- ColinHarman|| is now known as ColinHarman | 23:31 | |
| +perlDreamer | some people do stuff to their nic's to indicate status (here, away, etc) | 23:31 |
| ColinHarman | ya, I know typically it's setting me as "away" but not sure why it doesn't change it back whence I get back | 23:32 |
| ColinHarman | what IRC client are you in | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Pidgin, on Linux | 23:33 |
| ColinHarman | ah nice | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | interesting development in the legal world, http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/07/22/1935248/WordPress-Creator-GPL-Says-WP-Template-Must-Be-GPLd?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+Reader | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | Themes and templates inherit the license of the framework | 23:34 |
| @preaction | no, a wordpress theme is not a webgui template | 23:34 |
| @preaction | a wordpress theme is a php program that depends on wordpress | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | and a webgui template is a template that's worthless without WebGUI | 23:35 |
| @preaction | a webgui template is HTML that does not rely on WebGUI. it's processed by webgui to replace certain strings | 23:35 |
| @preaction | but you could use that HTML outside of WebGUI just fine | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 23:35 |
| @preaction | in fact, if that weren't true, we wouldn't be able to take open-source templates and adapt them for use in WebGUI | 23:35 |
| @preaction | so, someone could sell webgui templates if they wanted to | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | as long as they're GPL'ed you could | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | you can sell GPL material | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | you're just limited in the costs you can charge | 23:36 |
| @preaction | and could copyright them and license them under restrictive licenses that are not GPL-compatible | 23:36 |
| @preaction | no, you're not. the only rule of the GPL is that derivative code must be distributed under the GPL | 23:37 |
| @preaction | you can charge a million dollars, but you must give them the source | 23:37 |
| @preaction | someone could make their own build of WebGUI, call it WebFUI, sell it for a billion dollars, and as long as they gave the source they would not be bitten | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, at one point I read the GPL from end to end, and I'm pretty sure it says you can't charge for more than distribution and shipping costs | 23:39 |
| @preaction | now, it'd be different if you wrote JS code against WebGUI's JS, that JS code would have to be GPLed if you decided to distribute | 23:39 |
| +perlDreamer | and that's why people do dual licensing, as well as for subsequent redistribution | 23:39 |
| @preaction | http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html | 23:40 |
| @scrottie | no reason you can't GPL and distribute incomplete, non-working code. | 23:40 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: you might be referring to the second-to-last paragraph on that page, which doesn't apply to WebGUI (no binaries) | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | like I said, this would have been the mid-90's, and there was language about not charging excessively to get the source | 23:42 |
| +perlDreamer | in any case, since it's not PHP, it's probably not as clear | 23:42 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, all the historical builds are restored on frozen | 23:43 |
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| * perlDreamer is off to the library | 23:57 | |
| --- Day changed Fri Jul 23 2010 | ||
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| @khenn | can anyone get to webgui.org ? | 00:05 |
| Haarg | yes | 00:07 |
| @scrottie | khenn, DNS records recently changed. what do you get for a 'host webgui.org'? | 00:10 |
| @preaction | i just changed them, because they were wrong | 00:10 |
| @khenn | I've mapped it | 00:10 |
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| @scrottie | hrm. 174.133.63.34 here, for what it's worth. | 00:11 |
| @scrottie | I'm thinking of taking in DEFCON. | 00:11 |
| @scrottie | it's kind of juvenile but I always run into a bunch of people I used to know. which I suppose says something about my friends. and me. | 00:12 |
| @preaction | eh, it's something i've always wanted to go to, but since i am not and never will be that kind of computer person it didn't seem feasible | 00:13 |
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| @scrottie | hrm? what kind of computer person? and why would it be infeasible to go if you're the wrong type? | 00:14 |
| @scrottie | it's a mix of white hats, black hats, work-a-day sysadmin types, programmers who just want to try to keep current on topics, FBI agents looking for certain people who have warrants out, EFF types, ... | 00:15 |
| @preaction | hardware, electronics, security. and because i've got a hard enough time being around people I actually do share interests with ;) | 00:15 |
| @scrottie | haha | 00:15 |
| @preaction | i mean, i respect the hardware hackers, wish i had some extra time to start | 00:16 |
| @preaction | best i got was the time i spliced an atari 2600 into a nintendo's RF box to get it to work on my TV | 00:16 |
| @scrottie | some of the talks amuse me. the Shmoo Group used WiFi triangulation to automatically aim a (mock) riffle at people "stealing wifi", as a sort of dramatized proof of concept. someone took the snort ruleset and generated packets progrommatically to match each of the rules to set off every possible alarm at a target site running snort... | 00:17 |
| @scrottie | I watch hardware from a safe distance. | 00:17 |
| @preaction | they're fun, and they reveal real problems. it's something most tech talks should aspire to | 00:18 |
| @scrottie | one person demonstrated an attack where they convinced a site that it was under attack from the root DNS servers, which made it a lot easier to carry out DNS poisoning attacks against that site. no longer a race... more like shooting fish in a barrel. upshot, blacklisting sites in response to IDs reports can backfire. | 00:19 |
| @scrottie | one talk was using sequence alignment dataprocessing tools developed for bioinfomatics to compute family trees of binary protocols to help in reverse engineering protocols. | 00:19 |
| @scrottie | it turns out that big companies like Microsoft use a lot of now obscure but previously known commercial protocols to build their products out of. | 00:20 |
| @scrottie | it lets me corner kids and tell "back in my day" stories. | 00:21 |
| @preaction | heh, i sometimes think we're missing something when we aren't programming via punchcard or on lisp machines | 00:21 |
| @scrottie | punchcard dataprocessing is fascinating history | 00:22 |
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| @scrottie | let me know if I missed anything juicy. | 01:43 |
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| @scrottie | http://gist.github.com/477806 ... that's a bit hairy; the last step (of forcing the form submit to create the ticket) is as of yet untested for want of my own helpdesk install; the last step (of optionally/automatically closing the newly created ticket) hasn't been written yet, partially related to the previous nit. | 05:19 |
| @scrottie | that's enough of that for now. feedback welcome. | 05:20 |
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| SDuensin | FrIdAy! | 16:14 |
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| SDuensin | Sweet. Darth Vader robbed a bank in Long Island, New York yesterday. | 16:52 |
| @tavisto | guess he's low on the force | 17:01 |
| @tavisto | I was disappointed he wasn't using the new handheld lightsaber from wickedlasers.com | 17:02 |
| SDuensin | The whaaaaaaaaaa? | 17:06 |
| * SDuensin runs off to browse | 17:06 | |
| +bartjol | well, real villains use the 11 dimensional vortexmace | 17:07 |
| SDuensin | Crap! That laser jumps from $198 to $300 at midnight tonight! | 17:08 |
| @tavisto | it's a great way to set someone's flesh on fire | 17:10 |
| @tavisto | if you're looking for that. | 17:10 |
| SDuensin | I love the "Warning: Extremely Dangerous is an understatement" | 17:10 |
| +bartjol | dangerous, drinking beer with the dutch team is dangerous | 17:12 |
| SDuensin | Holy crap. The default mode for that laser is to run it at 1% maximum power. That's still enough to take out your eyes. | 17:13 |
| @tavisto | yep it's brutal | 17:14 |
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| SDuensin | I'd kind of like to have that instead of a firearm. | 17:15 |
| SDuensin | Hehe - http://cgi.ebay.com/LUCASFILM-CEASE-AND-DESIST-LETTER-REAL-LIFE-LIGHTSABER-/360281016040?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e26c06e8 | 17:19 |
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| +bartjol | well, installing wg 8 now | 18:05 |
| +bartjol | image magick seem to bork | 18:05 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, for the most part, it uses the same WRE as before | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | shouldn't have problems with Image::Magick | 18:11 |
| Haarg | perlDreamer, if you know the current state of the tests in 8, it might be good to post separate bugs for them now and close the initial one. | 18:16 |
| +perlDreamer | good idea, Haarg | 18:17 |
| +perlDreamer | but I haven't looked at 8 in over a week | 18:17 |
| +perlDreamer | or 7 | 18:17 |
| Haarg | i haven't really either | 18:18 |
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| +bartjol | ok, back to wg8 after some dns stuff | 18:26 |
| +perlDreamer | don't say that word, bartjol | 18:27 |
| +bartjol | dns? | 18:29 |
| +bartjol | stuff? | 18:29 |
| +bartjol | back? | 18:29 |
| +perlDreamer | The "d" word | 18:30 |
| +bartjol | well, a client was stressing over a hostname that didn't resolve except on his desktop. typical case of /ets/hosts file | 18:30 |
| +bartjol | b7ut a manual install also fails | 18:35 |
| +bartjol | it breaks on the make | 18:40 |
| +perlDreamer | is this the perl module, or the C library bartjol? | 18:45 |
| +bartjol | the perl module | 18:46 |
| +bartjol | mmm, the first is depending on the second prolly? | 18:46 |
| +bartjol | well, I skipped it teporarily and om installing the other modules | 18:47 |
| +bartjol | which is not a solution, I am aware of that | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, the latest perl module may require a newer version of the C lib | 18:51 |
| +bartjol | well, I just installed it | 18:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I think preaction came across that problem last week, but I don't remember for sure | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | the last week is very hazy | 18:54 |
| +bartjol | dazed and confused | 18:55 |
| +bartjol | any special reasons? | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | It's related to the D word, that shall not be spoken in polite company | 18:56 |
| +bartjol | aaah | 18:56 |
| +bartjol | mm, changelog of my IM C lib says last upda5te nov 2009 | 18:57 |
| +bartjol | but working with the D word is simple, other people complicate it, so you have a people problem | 18:57 |
| @scrottie | yarr. | 18:59 |
| +bartjol | martin fixed it for me | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, what was the problem? | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | all software is afraid of MrHairgrease | 19:06 |
| +bartjol | using native perl combined with cpan | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | heck, I'm afraid of martin sometimes | 19:12 |
| +bartjol | well, with Martin and me, the feeling is mutual | 19:13 |
| +bartjol | just rob him from his glasses and he can't do anytthing | 19:13 |
| +bartjol | well, it is too late, working furtheron thos monday (or when I feel like it, in the weekend) | 19:24 |
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| * perlDreamer is off for lunch | 21:38 | |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Scott Walters master * rd17d096 / (4 files in 4 dirs): | 21:59 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: StoryArchive optional sorting by title. | 21:59 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Fwiw, this code was written a while ago but seems to have gotten | 21:59 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: misplaced. - http://bit.ly/9ndOXs | 21:59 |
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| --- Day changed Sat Jul 24 2010 | ||
| @scrottie | oh, heck... | 00:14 |
| @scrottie | ah. nevermind. | 00:15 |
| @scrottie | http://gist.github.com/488077 ... does this always happen on StoryTopics that have no stories in them? | 00:40 |
| -!- ColinHarman [~ColinHarm@mail.blue-ridge.org] has quit [Quit: ZZzzzZzZzz...] | 00:44 | |
| @preaction | scrottie: it shouldn't. it should detect if there are no topics and show a message to the user in that case | 00:46 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, the default Story Topic will not do that | 01:24 |
| +perlDreamer | if there are no stories, the loop is skipped at line 191 | 01:25 |
| +perlDreamer | and, if it gets some wonky value, the conditional at line 193 will back it up | 01:25 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, in addition to the upgrade sub, you have to make a changelog entry describing that you added a new feature to WebGUI | 01:31 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, how do you set a breakpoint in a different module than the one you're currently working on? | 02:37 |
| @scrottie | hrm. subroutine name breakpoint or line breakpoint? b Some::Module::someSub should work for the former. | 02:42 |
| @scrottie | you can navigate the view (which is different than the current point of execution) and set a line number break point it looks like but I don't know the commands to navigate the view around... | 02:43 |
| @scrottie | / searches forward in the current file, f <filename> switches the view to that file. says <filename> can be a regex matched against %INC | 02:44 |
| * perlDreamer will check the perldoc | 02:44 | |
| @scrottie | f Whatever.pm and then b <num> should be adequate but perhaps not ideal. | 02:45 |
| @scrottie | argh. no, that error didn't go away when I reloaded the database. | 02:53 |
| +perlDreamer | do you have a test that exposes that? how are you seeing this bug? | 02:58 |
| @scrottie | I haven't narrowed it down. it happens with with changes in and with them stashed, both with a fresh database. that's as far as I've gotten. | 03:00 |
| @scrottie | if appropriate, I'll submit a test. ie, if it isn't just me doing something stupid. | 03:01 |
| @scrottie | s/submit/commit/. | 03:03 |
| @scrottie | looking at the code though, it'll plug in [ ] for the story loop, then happily try to ->[0]->getTitle on that. | 03:04 |
| @scrottie | I get that when I click on the 'Read more stories'. hmm. | 03:05 |
| +perlDreamer | So, create a story archive, add no stories | 03:06 |
| +perlDreamer | create a story topic, give it a keyword that no other asset shares | 03:06 |
| +perlDreamer | view the Topic, see a link that says "Read more stories" | 03:06 |
| +perlDreamer | then click the link and BAM | 03:07 |
| @scrottie | I know. I'm working on it... and a few other things =( | 03:07 |
| +perlDreamer | ? | 03:07 |
| @scrottie | ah, thought those were instructions for writing a test. sorry. | 03:07 |
| @scrottie | it doesn't blow up when it's aggregated into another view, just when you view that asset by itself | 03:07 |
| @scrottie | I haven't looked at the code paths to figure out why yet. | 03:08 |
| +perlDreamer | it's also a bug that there's a link to see more stories, when there aren't any more stories! | 03:08 |
| +perlDreamer | so that would be 2 :( | 03:08 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rffe4b8f / (3 files in 2 dirs): Better handling of an empty spamStopWords entry in the config file, for WikiPage and Post. - http://bit.ly/9d2jSK | 03:10 |
| @scrottie | dag nabbit, I have to go afk for a bit here... | 03:10 |
| CIA-59 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r51e0f50 / (3 files in 2 dirs): Better handling of an empty spamStopWords entry in the config file, for WikiPage and Post. - http://bit.ly/b4KDM1 | 03:10 |
| @scrottie | it's starting to look like I have to come back to this Sunday. I hate being interrupted when I'm enjoying a good interruption from being interrupted from what I'm working on. | 03:13 |
| +perlDreamer | do what ya gotta do, man | 04:11 |
| @scrottie | bide my time. | 04:26 |
| * scrottie rubs his hands together | 04:26 | |
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| elnino | hey, I got an email from plainblack thru TAF? I'm sure you've heard about it? | 06:09 |
| elnino | The links go to http://alinuxshell.com and they are broken. was this not from pb? | 06:10 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:45 |
| +bartjol | howdy | 17:01 |
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| elnino | hi all! | 18:08 |
| +perlDreamer | hey, elnino! | 18:08 |
| elnino | I think I asked this, but I don't remember how best to accomplish this....my customer wants a "brief" product asset, that then clicks to a "more detailed product page" which to me sounds like a need for two product templates, I think what I did before, was use shortcuts everywhere, but that requires a lot of shortcuts to be made when dealing with 100's of books. | 18:11 |
| elnino | does the new 7.8 store do something similar? | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | If you use a Shelf, you can get an abbreviated template, in 7.8 or earlier. | 18:12 |
| +perlDreamer | Or, you can use a Shortcut to override the Product template | 18:12 |
| elnino | ok. | 18:13 |
| +bartjol | whoohoo, testenviroment for wg 8 us complete | 18:21 |
| elnino | your right, how did I miss that?? | 18:21 |
| elnino | to perlDreamer about the shelf. | 18:22 |
| elnino | I'm making no sense. I'm signing off. =( | 18:22 |
| +bartjol | it's not that bad | 18:22 |
| +perlDreamer | hang tougn, elnino | 18:23 |
| +bartjol | tougn? | 18:23 |
| +perlDreamer | tough | 18:23 |
| +bartjol | must brush up my english | 18:23 |
| * perlDreamer needs to type more carefully | 18:24 | |
| +bartjol | since I am coming to america! | 18:24 |
| +perlDreamer | w00t! | 18:24 |
| +perlDreamer | what are you going to do, bartjol? | 18:24 |
| +bartjol | presentation in wg8 | 18:24 |
| +bartjol | flying | 18:24 |
| +bartjol | but prolly about WG cluster setup | 18:26 |
| +bartjol | but testEnvironment recommends 7.8.23 | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | it's the lastest stable version | 18:28 |
| +perlDreamer | it does that in 7.9, too | 18:28 |
| +bartjol | ;P | 18:28 |
| +bartjol | I know that | 18:28 |
| +bartjol | too early for you for stupid jokes, I gather | 18:28 |
| +perlDreamer | I've been keeping late hours | 18:29 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry, bartjol | 18:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I'm really in UTF+10 these days | 18:29 |
| +bartjol | oooh , not good | 18:29 |
| +bartjol | work is picking up again? | 18:29 |
| +perlDreamer | that, and the heat make is hard to get to sleep early | 18:30 |
| +bartjol | mmm, I should have paid more attention to Patrick's talks about plack, figuring out how to start webgui | 18:31 |
| +perlDreamer | I think there's a readme file somewhere about how to do that | 18:31 |
| +bartjol | aah, in WebGUI | 18:32 |
| +bartjol | well, now I can play with it hopefully | 18:34 |
| +perlDreamer | don't try to edit an asset | 18:34 |
| +perlDreamer | that's a deprecated feature, currently | 18:34 |
| +perlDreamer | prevents the user from breaking their website | 18:35 |
| +bartjol | is it still possible to use apache? | 18:35 |
| +bartjol | aaah | 18:35 |
| +bartjol | cool | 18:35 |
| +perlDreamer | supposedly | 18:35 |
| +bartjol | no nagging customers | 18:35 |
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| +perlDreamer | it really optimizes caching | 18:35 |
| +bartjol | wait, why don't we go back to html | 18:37 |
| +perlDreamer | back to html? | 18:37 |
| +bartjol | like html files | 18:37 |
| +bartjol | loose the interactive bits | 18:37 |
| +perlDreamer | those are so 1990's | 18:37 |
| +bartjol | well, I'm from the seventies | 18:38 |
| +bartjol | so 20 year ahead | 18:38 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, are you telling me you actually went on a vacation this summer that did not involve sailing? | 18:43 |
| +bartjol | yeah, I've done that more than once actually | 18:44 |
| +bartjol | but all involve beer | 18:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought there'd be a consistent thread there | 18:44 |
| +bartjol | but, you're saying no presentation in WG 8 possible this wuc? | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I hope I'm not saying that | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | since I'm giving one, too! | 18:47 |
| +bartjol | ah, well 7.9.9 or 10 is fine too | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | what I'm saying is that today, assets cannot be edited through the UI | 18:48 |
| +bartjol | ok | 18:48 |
| +bartjol | well still have to start working on my presentation | 18:48 |
| +bartjol | prolly get angry mails from vrby soon | 18:48 |
| +bartjol | kill -9 | 18:49 |
| +bartjol | mm, but I guess I'm lucky to have backups from my old laptop install | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | it died? | 18:50 |
| +bartjol | no, I through everything away for my wg 8 install | 18:51 |
| +bartjol | threw | 18:51 |
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| +bartjol | well, I'm gonna play with it tonight, first it is dinner time | 18:56 |
| +bartjol | perlDreamer: any hopes for assets to be editable? | 18:56 |
| +bartjol | and I mean a momen t that you hope it works | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | such a moment will exist | 18:58 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise, wg8 is just an interesting research project | 18:58 |
| +bartjol | so, what's the timeline? | 18:58 |
| +bartjol | this afternoon? | 18:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know what the timeline for that part of the project is | 18:59 |
| +bartjol | ok, well, I'll see the moment pass sometime then | 19:00 |
| +bartjol | goodday | 19:01 |
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| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5426ea4 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Fix location of changelog notice. - http://bit.ly/bmLoGX | 19:09 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5bc83c4 / (3 files in 3 dirs): If the User Function Style template is cut or deleted, use the Fail Safe template instead. Fixes bug #11729 - http://bit.ly/c2YYo5 | 19:10 |
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| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r38e0e7e / (3 files in 3 dirs): If the User Function Style template is cut or deleted, use the Fail Safe template instead. Fixes bug #11729 - http://bit.ly/dl0zKE | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I like that the new WebGUI setup logs you right in | 19:26 |
| @preaction | yeah, that's just a side-effect really: the Home Page wizard requires Admin (user 3) | 19:28 |
| * perlDreamer takes the kids to piano lessons, I'll be back later this morning | 19:56 | |
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| @preaction | every different type of web application that one can build in WebGUI is just a different type of dispatch system: Asset, Account, Operation, FormHelper/WorkflowHelper/*Helper, Wizard | 20:02 |
| @preaction | why do they need to be different dispatch systems? why can't WebGUI handle the differences and the applications handle the application part? | 20:02 |
| @preaction | WebGUI decides which application(s) to dispatch to, the application decides if/how it should handle the request | 20:03 |
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| @preaction | anyone remember Half-Life 2: Episode 3? | 22:41 |
| scrottie | Sorry, I'm not into Pokemon. | 23:05 |
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| @scrottie | grr. X--. | 02:00 |
| elnino | hi. | 02:31 |
| elnino | in 7.8.23-stable, are people having issues with importing or uploading images? | 02:32 |
| @preaction | not that i'm aware, what's the issue? | 02:32 |
| elnino | Ive created a site, and handing it over toa customer server, and the images aren't being importe via package, and I cant create ads of the image type. whenyou try to view the image, it gives me the missing page message. | 02:33 |
| elnino | I'm not convinced they know what they are doing, it isn't my server.. so I don't know what to do.... | 02:34 |
| @preaction | what do the error logs say? my first guess would be permissions on the uploads folder | 02:34 |
| elnino | don't know. I don't ahve access. I'll ask him to send them. That's kinda what I was thinking at one point.. | 02:35 |
| elnino | I'll be back later. | 02:35 |
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| @scrottie | I've gotta cook for the Scrabble Society tonight. the StoryTopics thing seems to work (that was quick and easily) but the tests are a mess from trying to chase down this one bug. it got to the point where I'm running kompare on full Devel::Trace logs, trying to figure out what the difference is. | 03:01 |
| @scrottie | so far, I've only been able to recreate it in the running system, not from the tests... *except* I dumped out the state of the StoryTopics object using Dumper, sucked it back it to an object, repopulated with session and so forth, invoke the www_view method on it, and *that* blows up in exactly the same way. | 03:02 |
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| @scrottie | so I guess I need to figure out how the object is getting into this state. merely not having stories in the story loop is not adequate. | 03:02 |
| @scrottie | I'll create a ticket for it tomorrow. I haven't done that yet. | 03:03 |
| @scrottie | also, I did go for airline tickets for DEFCON, leaving Thurs eve, so I'll be out Friday. | 03:05 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 15:56 |
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| +bartjol | tavisto: are you already mentally preparing for the dutch guys? | 17:43 |
| @tavisto | Not sure I have to anymore, the Dutch team has settled down quite a bit | 17:44 |
| @tavisto | bartjol is still quite the party animal though | 17:45 |
| +bartjol | not me, and all guys will be liberated from their domestic ties | 17:46 |
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| +bartjol | oh, sorry patspam, I reported a bug about something you made, nothing serious though | 18:04 |
| +bartjol | you are not mad at me now, I hope | 18:04 |
| @tavisto | haha, nice | 18:07 |
| +bartjol | well, it's a dirty job, but someone gotta do it | 18:08 |
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| CIA-61 | webgui: khenn master * r078bc0e / (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed #11745: Pagination doesn't work in DataForm list mode - http://bit.ly/a07dGA | 19:21 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: khenn webgui-7.8 * r23c95e1 / (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed #11745: Pagination doesn't work in DataForm list mode - http://bit.ly/cdwaHB | 19:23 |
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| @scrottie | mornin'. | 19:55 |
| @preaction | mornin | 19:55 |
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| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r16173f8 / lib/WebGUI/AssetLineage.pm : Don't call newByLineage, if we know there's no lineage. - http://bit.ly/b33M1r | 20:34 |
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| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfd79c77 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Correct carousel height hoverhelp copy/paste problems. Fixes bug #11741 - http://bit.ly/c5Q71P | 21:05 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rdc50a55 / lib/WebGUI/AssetLineage.pm : Don't call newByLineage, if we know there's no lineage. - http://bit.ly/c7bHIs | 21:05 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * ra04b879 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Correct carousel height hoverhelp copy/paste problems. Fixes bug #11741 - http://bit.ly/acfrt8 | 21:05 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, are you going to get mad if I tell you \r\n bug is really an RFE? :) | 21:08 |
| @preaction | it's not. right now only \n is really supported, so \r is probably on the end of every CSV record imported into thingy (assuming most users are on windows boxes and most servers are linux) | 21:08 |
| Haarg | bleh. i have viminfo set in my vimrc but apparently it is entirely ignored. | 21:24 |
| Haarg | but i can set it while vim is running and it works fine | 21:25 |
| @preaction | i can backup the entire plainblack.com server, database and uploads folder, in 13 minutes | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | wow | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | is that new hardware, or new software? | 21:31 |
| @preaction | using rsync locally is pwn | 21:31 |
| @preaction | new software | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | isn't that what the rsync script that I wrote does? | 21:31 |
| @preaction | plus we're using hardlinks now, so far less disk space being used | 21:32 |
| @preaction | the rsyncbackup.sh script on frozen? looks like it just does a standard copy | 21:33 |
| @preaction | it doesn't use the --link-dest or --compare-dest options to reduce the amount of data copied | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | it does a standard rsync locally, which is better than cp -r | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | but obviously not as good as --link-dest, or --compare-dest | 21:34 |
| @preaction | i'm kinda worried that the mysqldump for the entire server only takes 2 minutes | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I noticed that for backups run by hand, too | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | but it's far faster to dump out, than suck in | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | new hardware go zoom fast! | 21:38 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r6526e32 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make the FilePump macro return valid XHTML. Fixes bug #11742. - http://bit.ly/9XrZ9v | 21:45 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r26484f3 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make the FilePump macro return valid XHTML. Fixes bug #11742. - http://bit.ly/c2LJjF | 21:45 |
| Haarg | perlDreamer, self closing tags end with / not \ | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, Haarg | 21:50 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbba978f / (lib/WebGUI/Macro/FilePump.pm t/Macro/FilePump.t): Use the correct end tag identifier character. - http://bit.ly/dfLtqs | 21:51 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r9550094 / (lib/WebGUI/Macro/FilePump.pm t/Macro/FilePump.t): Use the correct end tag identifier character. - http://bit.ly/ciWxe9 | 21:51 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, in WebGUI, at which point is the generated page converted from perl's internal encoding to UTF-8? | 21:54 |
| Haarg | well | 21:54 |
| Haarg | apache does that i think, but it may just be outputting the internal encoding | 21:54 |
| Haarg | might be worth checking | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | a bug was filed relating to i18n URLs | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | they work "fine" in asset "mode" | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | but when the AdminConsole is used, they're all poorly encoded | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | I couldn't find anywhere were WebGUI encodes the output | 21:55 |
| Haarg | can you reproduce it? | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | oh yeah | 21:56 |
| +perlDreamer | add a cs | 21:56 |
| Haarg | admin console as in asset manager? | 21:56 |
| Haarg | or edit screen? | 21:56 |
| +perlDreamer | put a post in it with this: URL with UTF8 (for äÄöÖüÜß) | 21:56 |
| +perlDreamer | then, from that post, access anything in the admin console | 21:56 |
| +perlDreamer | every URL will have badly encoded characters in it | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | except 1, the Admin Console toggle for showing the Console itself, versus the specific screen | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | For example, if you choose Version Tags | 21:57 |
| +perlDreamer | Manage Pending Versions, Manage Committed Versions, Back to Site, Turn Admin Off, are all bad | 21:58 |
| +perlDreamer | but Show Admin Console works | 21:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm going to fix one other small bug for khenn, then I'm going to head back into looking at it | 21:58 |
| Haarg | i doubt that is a problem with encoding then | 21:58 |
| Haarg | with output encoding i mean | 21:58 |
| Haarg | also | 21:59 |
| Haarg | the default content needs to be fixed | 21:59 |
| Haarg | links to sites that aren't using webgui | 21:59 |
| +perlDreamer | new default content comes out tonight | 21:59 |
| Haarg | ah | 21:59 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, is that right? New default content comes out tonight? | 22:00 |
| @preaction | yep | 22:00 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r699688c / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add pagination control to the default DataForm list template. Fixes bug #11744. - http://bit.ly/bU5Kck | 22:06 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra5fab79 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add pagination control to the default DataForm list template. Fixes bug #11744. - http://bit.ly/9J6ZM3 | 22:07 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc92d182 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade package to correct location - http://bit.ly/96DaMG | 22:07 |
| Haarg | perlDreamer, i'd guess that session->request->uri isn't decoding the uri to characters | 22:07 |
| +perlDreamer | that makes sense | 22:08 |
| +perlDreamer | and it's pretty easy to test for | 22:08 |
| Haarg | in WebGUI::Session::Url->getRequestedUrl | 22:08 |
| +perlDreamer | at some point, isn't session->request->uri called for every page request? | 22:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll need to go through Content/URL and WebGUI.pm and URL/* to see when it's being called | 22:10 |
| +perlDreamer | because assets are instanced via newByUrl | 22:10 |
| Haarg | mysql might be fudging it | 22:11 |
| Haarg | i hate mysql so much | 22:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't see how one link could be right, but all the others be wrong | 22:23 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm wondering if it's because we append to the URL using . | 22:24 |
| +perlDreamer | isn't $utf8 . $perl_enc => $perl_end ? | 22:24 |
| Haarg | if the url is pulled from the asset, it is correct | 22:25 |
| Haarg | if it is pulled from the current url, it is wrong | 22:25 |
| +perlDreamer | there it is | 22:27 |
| Haarg | and the show admin console link just uses a fragment | 22:27 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Scott Walters WebGUI8 * r0a187cc / lib/WebGUI/Session.pm : | 22:28 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Don't document open() as takeing webguiRoot; if passed (as the API in | 22:28 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: 7.x specified), throw it away. - http://bit.ly/9vuV0y | 22:28 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Scott Walters master * r1c443ee / (7 files in 7 dirs): Sort order option for StoryTopic, similar to the new option for StoryArchive. - http://bit.ly/b27rPa | 22:28 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, there's a preload.perl in your master branch commit | 22:29 |
| @scrottie | eek, and eek on that other thing isn't supposed to go up | 22:29 |
| @scrottie | no one commit anything for a few minutes | 22:29 |
| Haarg | scrottie, you might want git config --global push.default tracking | 22:30 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, in the Keyword test, if you alter a default asset, you have to return it to its original state | 22:31 |
| +perlDreamer | other tests may (for better or worse) depend on that title | 22:31 |
| Haarg | i would recommend never relying on the default content in any way in a test | 22:31 |
| Haarg | (home page content that is, not import node content) | 22:31 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 22:32 |
| Haarg | best to always generate temp assets | 22:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I was lazy when I wrote that test | 22:34 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, Session::Url->page wraps getRequestedUrl in uri_escape_utf8 | 22:36 |
| Haarg | yes | 22:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I think that should be moved _inside_ getRequestedUrl | 22:36 |
| Haarg | which is correct | 22:36 |
| Haarg | no | 22:36 |
| Haarg | that's for encoding it as a % string | 22:36 |
| Haarg | but it's not being decoded properly | 22:37 |
| Haarg | so when that % encoding is being done it generates the wrong result | 22:37 |
| Haarg | i guess i shouldn't say 'no'; it may be good to move it, but that's not the problem in this case. | 22:37 |
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| +perlDreamer | so really, we have two problems | 22:47 |
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| Haarg | actually, it definitely shouldn't be moved into getRequestedUrl | 22:56 |
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| Haarg | getRequestedUrl is for getting the incoming url | 22:56 |
| Haarg | not for outputting a url | 22:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | you're right, Haarg | 23:32 |
| -!- scrottie [~scrottie@dsl01-ppp-5119.fastq.com] has joined #webgui | 23:33 | |
| scrottie | okay, HEADs should be back to where they were. of course, the 'net vanishes as soon as I muck up git. | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | tavisto, when can I start buying TGC swag? | 23:40 |
| +perlDreamer | These guys got a shop: http://www.chocomize.com/ | 23:40 |
| @tavisto | interesting | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | where do I get my TGC shirt? | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | My Game, My Way! | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | You could hold a design contest | 23:43 |
| +perlDreamer | winner get a free T-shirt signed by the crew, and $50 in TGC credit | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | or, their own customized chocolate bar | 23:44 |
| @khenn | hey scrottie or perlDreamer: do you guys know where the Story Topic changes that were done last week are? | 23:48 |
| @khenn | I don't see them in the commit history for that asset | 23:48 |
| +perlDreamer | khenn, they were committed, and then rolled back due to some problems | 23:48 |
| +perlDreamer | technically, last week was Story Archive | 23:48 |
| +perlDreamer | those changes are in now | 23:48 |
| +perlDreamer | it's just the topic with a few, small hiccups | 23:49 |
| @khenn | tests? | 23:49 |
| @khenn | or were there actual problems with the code? | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | it had good tests | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | but a preload.perl file was in the commit | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | it needs to be removed | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie's working on it as we speak | 23:50 |
| @khenn | ok | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm confident that it will be in tonight's release, if that's important | 23:50 |
| @khenn | no I need the commit to manually patch a client server | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | If you need it now, you can probably pull the commit from scrottie's repo | 23:53 |
| -!- vayde [~vayde@63-226-177-159.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:56 | |
| --- Day changed Wed Jul 28 2010 | ||
| * scrottie sighs | 00:03 | |
| scrottie | after a cherry-pick -n, things are already add'ed. how do I un-add them so I can git diff and see what exactly is in the cherry pick? | 00:04 |
| @preaction | git reset to un-add | 00:04 |
| scrottie | thanks | 00:04 |
| Haarg | or git diff --cached | 00:04 |
| Haarg | if you just need to see the diff | 00:04 |
| scrottie | Haarg, cool. thank you. | 00:05 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg: http://gist.github.com/492863 | 00:09 |
| scrottie | perlDreamer, thanks for fielding that one for me. git requires all of my concentration and more. khenn, sorry to ignore you there. | 00:09 |
| scrottie | http://github.com/scrottie/webgui/commit/8a40859eed316b14bd70d230f91f172987be0407 | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, I always have your back | 00:09 |
| Haarg | perlDreamer, that's what i had in mind | 00:10 |
| @khenn | scrottie: no problem | 00:10 |
| @khenn | found what I was looking for | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | now the problem is, how to test it, and how to migrate 8 to using it | 00:10 |
| @khenn | hey perlDreamer | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | yo, khenn? | 00:10 |
| @khenn | take a look at the changes scrottie made to Keywords API: | 00:10 |
| @khenn | specifically this: | 00:10 |
| @khenn | my $sortOrder = $options->{sortOrder} || 'Chronologically'; | 00:11 |
| @khenn | my $orderBy = $sortOrder eq 'Alphabetically' ? ' order by upper(title), lineage' : ' order by creationDate desc, lineage'; | 00:11 |
| scrottie | picking stuff out of the reflog like that could be dangerous. | 00:11 |
| @khenn | methinks that logic belongs in StoryTopic | 00:11 |
| @khenn | and sortOrder should just be the column you want to order by | 00:11 |
| scrottie | I'm thinking it would be bad API design to pass in fragments of SQL like that. | 00:11 |
| @khenn | you wouldn't | 00:12 |
| scrottie | magical values (strings) to identify which sort order you want isn't great either. | 00:12 |
| @khenn | you'd pass in: | 00:12 |
| @khenn | title | 00:12 |
| @khenn | menuTitle | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | khenn, that's still a column name | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | it's better to wrap it in the API | 00:12 |
| @khenn | ok | 00:12 |
| scrottie | it then it would be doing UPPER(title) to fold case. | 00:12 |
| @khenn | doesn't matter to me really | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | that way, we can change it behind the scenes | 00:12 |
| +perlDreamer | and only change it in one place | 00:12 |
| @khenn | but someone somewhere is going to want to sort keywords by creationDate | 00:13 |
| @khenn | or some other field | 00:13 |
| @khenn | and the current implementation will not support that | 00:13 |
| @khenn | it seems | 00:13 |
| Haarg | it's nasty to support that safely | 00:13 |
| scrottie | it's a valid question. there was one sort order. now there are two. perhaps there should be a package full of constants you can pass in to pick which of many and a library of SQL fragments. I don't know. | 00:13 |
| @preaction | but we aren't solving that possible future problem, we're solving a real current problem | 00:13 |
| @khenn | ok | 00:13 |
| @khenn | that's fair | 00:13 |
| @khenn | just making sure we weren't cornering ourselves | 00:14 |
| +perlDreamer | khenn, the current sort order was added by me for the StoryManager | 00:14 |
| +perlDreamer | it was impossible to test because the order was random | 00:14 |
| @khenn | k | 00:14 |
| +perlDreamer | if someone wants a new ordering option, it's a small, 30 line patch with changelog and tests | 00:14 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise, we fall back to sorting like in the CS, which is a nightmare | 00:15 |
| scrottie | if this opens a floodgate, the code isn't ready for it. more structure is needed. | 00:15 |
| @preaction | or they could order after they get them | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | not in conjunction with a paginator, preaction | 00:15 |
| scrottie | already this one little extra sort order got copied into two places. | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | it would have to be done beforehand | 00:15 |
| @preaction | heh, there is no structure to much of this. never has been. no planning. no design :p | 00:15 |
| @preaction | that's what i'm about changing | 00:16 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: before it's sent to the paginator, sure | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | has anyone thought about using Memoize for doing all our method caching? | 00:17 |
| scrottie | khenn: don't know if you saw any of what I typed up from the other night, but I spent 1.5 days chasing a bug that I still haven't solved that was interfering with my manual testing of this in the web UI. | 00:17 |
| scrottie | argh | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, post it as a bug with detailed instructions on how to reproduce it on a demo site | 00:18 |
| scrottie | preaction, make things immutable and that and a lot of other strategies will open up. | 00:18 |
| scrottie | perlDreamer, yeah, yesterday I said I'd do that this morning. | 00:18 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: i believe it was rejected based on Memoize's caveats. the cache methods we use are sufficient | 00:18 |
| @khenn | scrottie: I did not see that | 00:18 |
| @preaction | either that or it was because Memoize wouldn't be able to be used very much really | 00:18 |
| scrottie | khenn: sorry I didn't have that to you more promptly. I gotten eaten by grue. | 00:19 |
| +perlDreamer | seems like we should use something for all the places in Session/*.pm that look like | 00:19 |
| @khenn | scrottie: no problem. They aren't expecting it till tomorrow | 00:19 |
| @khenn | so I'll tell you shortly if it works or not | 00:19 |
| @khenn | =) | 00:19 |
| +perlDreamer | my $self = shift; return $self->{_privateKey} if exists $self->{_privateKey}; #calculate key return $self->{_privateKey} | 00:19 |
| @preaction | scrottie: which things need to be immutable? we're going away from the mutable definition() stuff and moving to immutable introspection with Moose, that kinda thing? | 00:20 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: ah, so memoize isn't persistent between object instances? | 00:20 |
| +perlDreamer | don't know | 00:20 |
| scrottie | preaction, anything that would be an input to memoization. | 00:21 |
| scrottie | input to something memoized. | 00:21 |
| scrottie | it's too easy with aggressive caching strategies to just wind up with 1000 copies of the same stuff in RAM in 1000 processes on 300 computers. | 00:22 |
| scrottie | caching often winds up just being a desperate, ineffectual use of RAM. | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, I don't think that applies to this case. | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | this is 1 object caching expensive operations | 00:23 |
| scrottie | I think web programmers have been fantastically insular about scaling lately, re-inventing wheels solved much better previously. | 00:24 |
| scrottie | the field of web programming is too large and too detached. | 00:24 |
| @preaction | well, everyone wants to be facebook/myspace/google/whathaveyou | 00:24 |
| @preaction | "we need google-level scalability" how many users do you expect? "our dog-washing web page will make us all millionaires!" | 00:25 |
| scrottie | generating a web page with a couple of widgets on it shouldn't take this much CPU. I think we can agree there. but I think it is premature to turn to caching to fix this mess. | 00:25 |
| scrottie | caching is a one time linear improvement. | 00:25 |
| scrottie | the situation should be made radically better before that card is invoked. | 00:25 |
| scrottie | I don't know. I've got a 3ghz quad Phenon here and it amazes me how long it takes to render a page on it | 00:26 |
| scrottie | Phenom. or whatever. | 00:26 |
| scrottie | I can't help thinking of the good old days tweaking LPC so that we could get 100 players going concurrently on a 16mhz DEC 3100. | 00:26 |
| @preaction | shouldn't take longer than 0.1 to render a fairly busy page | 00:26 |
| @preaction | it's Navigations that suffer the most, instantiating dozens, hundreds of assets just to get a few little bits of data | 00:27 |
| scrottie | I decided the other day that all web apps (or a good approximation of them) should be written as Postgres procs, including using Perl as the PL | 00:27 |
| scrottie | yeah. and memoizing is a better strategy than some. at least you don't have a disaster for an API because of your caching strategy. | 00:28 |
| scrottie | dunno. that might win out just because of the generality of it. | 00:28 |
| scrottie | I was kind of imagining invariant folding generating the SQL to initialize the state of large numbers of objects in one query. | 00:30 |
| scrottie | taking a sort of compiler approach. | 00:30 |
| scrottie | that would require API changes. | 00:31 |
| scrottie | hmm. I seem to have killed the conversation. I always do that. | 00:32 |
| @preaction | i'm not sure i understand what that is, but it's something to look at when we start messing with the schema in 9 | 00:32 |
| scrottie | DBIx::Class is nice in terms of being a DSL for querying, but I think how it's set up would be a bad match WebGUI. I think it would result in even more queries each with smaller and lesser scope. | 00:33 |
| @preaction | 9 i suspect will look completely different: fewer Assets, more simple SQL relationships | 00:33 |
| scrottie | the idea of keeping instantiated objects around in memory is, by comparison, a fantastic one. I have opinions about how that should be done. | 00:34 |
| scrottie | hmm. | 00:34 |
| scrottie | keeping lots of object representations around in memory starts to suck when you have a lot of processes going. Coro based webservers such as Stardust warrant consideration... then a bunch of users can all draw from one pool of objects. | 00:35 |
| scrottie | but that doesn't scale beyond one CPU. | 00:35 |
| scrottie | have you looked at KiokuDB at all? I wouldn't advocating using it for this task as it precludes being able to do old fashioned SQL reporting. | 00:37 |
| scrottie | aside from storing objects opaquely, it's a good example of automatically serializing and unserializing objects to disc. | 00:37 |
| @preaction | i haven't personally evaluated it, but i've been looking at nosql databases with increasing reluctance: relational databases are good, even if the SQL-parsing bit is slow | 00:39 |
| scrottie | hrm. KiokuDB isn't its own database... it's a layer in front of it. unlike DBIx::Class, you don't wind up with two objects... WebGUI::Asset and DBIx::Class::ResultSet::Asset or whatever and that schism. | 00:42 |
| scrottie | your object is the resultset. but it doesn't store things in normalized SQL... objects are opaque, with some metadata attached. | 00:43 |
| scrottie | not sure regarding nosql databases either. most apps don't really use the relational features of the database, in which case they really might as well use something KiokuDB storing to couchdb or whatever is fashionable now. | 00:44 |
| scrottie | I really hate how disjointed distributed caching, session persistence, and application data persistence are. | 00:45 |
| @preaction | reading the perldoc, kiokudb looks like exactly what i'm looking for, provided the Backend::DBI matures by the time we're ready | 00:48 |
| scrottie | alright. fwiw, in short, immutables are a really good idea and open lots of doors, DBIx::Class closes a lot of doors, check out .. oops, Stardust is something else. Corono is what I was thinking of. | 00:48 |
| @preaction | though a BDB backend wouldn't be evil | 00:48 |
| scrottie | that would interface well with Corono. | 00:49 |
| scrottie | Corona. | 00:50 |
| scrottie | argh. | 00:50 |
| @preaction | and then with a little finagling we could have async WebGUI (or a close approximation) | 00:56 |
| scrottie | Kioku storing things opaquely might be a show stopper. having to unserialize entire objects to get any data about them might also be. but it's a good illustration of what DBIx::Class isn't. | 01:00 |
| scrottie | if there were a strong movement to go nosql, DBIx::Class would be especially mismatched. | 01:01 |
| scrottie | don't know. too many possibilities. head hurts. | 01:01 |
| @preaction | yeah, that's why i like the "we'll evaluate when we're ready" | 01:01 |
| scrottie | I'd also be reluctant to bet the farm on one technology. in Perl as in Java, things don't stay in fashion too long. | 01:04 |
| @preaction | yeah, that's why we backed away from requiring memcached and used CHI, another reason I want SOMETHING instead of writing MySQL-SQL | 01:05 |
| Haarg | for anyone using os x, http://haarg.org/firefox-standalone.tar.gz | 01:19 |
| Haarg | extract, right click on the extracted file, show package contents, open Contents/MacOS | 01:20 |
| Haarg | drop in any Firefox bundle | 01:21 |
| Haarg | and run, it will use an internal profile and run concurrently with other firefox executables | 01:22 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r49374b4 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Operations should be able to handle UTF-8 urls, too. Fixes bug #11683 - http://bit.ly/ai4iOL | 01:38 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rb939b4b / (3 files in 3 dirs): Operations should be able to handle UTF-8 urls, too. Fixes bug #11683 - http://bit.ly/cIllf1 | 01:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie, preaction, khenn, frodwith, I'm going to start the release tonight | 03:58 |
| @preaction | why is mail server address a setting anyway? it should probably be config, considering Settings are designed for the end-user, Config is designed for the Admin only | 03:58 |
| +perlDreamer | do you have any pending commits? | 03:58 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, it's a setting so that __you__ don't have to change it | 03:59 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: could you let people know that next 7.9 release (7.9.11) will be the feature freeze? | 03:59 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 03:59 |
| @khenn | preaction: I think it's a setting because back in the days of Brunswick, they used to switch SMTP servers regularly to test stuff | 03:59 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: ah. but it'd be easy to implement SSL SMTP and authentication if we just pass the arguments directly to Net::SMTP instead of having to create the correct form stuff | 04:00 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I agree | 04:00 |
| +perlDreamer | but unless you want to login to everyone's hosted website.... | 04:00 |
| @preaction | if it's config, i don't have to log in | 04:01 |
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| scrottie | not sure if I should rush to get this in. | 04:01 |
| scrottie | probably not, I'm guessing. | 04:01 |
| +perlDreamer | I wouldn't rush it, scrottie | 04:01 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, how do end-users update their WebGUI config file? | 04:02 |
| +perlDreamer | on a hosted site? | 04:02 |
| @preaction | they don't | 04:02 |
| +perlDreamer | You do, right? | 04:02 |
| @preaction | yep | 04:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I know it's an extra db hit, but I'd rather have EVERYTHING in settings | 04:02 |
| +perlDreamer | so that I never have to touch a config file again | 04:02 |
| @preaction | our localhost sendmail daemon just relays everything anyway, there's no reason to not use it | 04:03 |
| +perlDreamer | wow! | 04:05 |
| +perlDreamer | that's really interesting | 04:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I just imported the new default content | 04:06 |
| +perlDreamer | and the stupid FLASH is still showing up | 04:06 |
| +perlDreamer | does importing a package preserve lineage? | 04:08 |
| +perlDreamer | it must not | 04:08 |
| @preaction | no, it doesn't | 04:21 |
| @preaction | can't, actually | 04:21 |
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| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r30f3897 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm : Handle import of templates with old attachments the correct way. - http://bit.ly/d0SZQm | 04:32 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9bc367d / (8 files in 5 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.10 release. - http://bit.ly/aXrw9m | 04:32 |
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| +perlDreamer | note to everyone: the release is going to take several hours longer than normal | 04:57 |
| +perlDreamer | please don't make any commits until tomorrow morning, to be safe | 04:57 |
| scrottie | okay for me to push to WebGUI8 branch? | 04:58 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 04:58 |
| +perlDreamer | but if you push to master... | 04:58 |
| +perlDreamer | POW, right in the IO channel | 04:58 |
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| CIA-61 | webgui: Scott Walters WebGUI8 * ra21da25 / lib/WebGUI/Session.pm : Don't document WebGUI::Session as taking webguiConfig as it no longer does - http://bit.ly/9SmQVX | 05:43 |
| * scrottie sighs | 05:46 | |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Scott Walters WebGUI8 * r87cf17e / lib/WebGUI/Session.pm : Don't document WebGUI::Session::open as taking webguiRoot as it no longer does - http://bit.ly/c5aYgu | 05:46 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, why change from assignment to @_, to shift? | 05:50 |
| scrottie | first iteration of that either did or didn't shift, heuristically, for backwards compat. | 05:53 |
| scrottie | then I modified the patch and forgot what it used to look like. | 05:53 |
| scrottie | so, no good reason. | 05:53 |
| scrottie | yeah, that's a crummy docpatch. | 05:54 |
| +perlDreamer | every time we make a stylistic change to the code, it makes merging with master more difficult | 05:54 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Scott Walters WebGUI8 * r887ef78 / lib/WebGUI/Session.pm : Don't document WebGUI::Session as taking webguiConfig as it no longer does - http://bit.ly/dtSKAs | 05:57 |
| +perlDreamer | and we're done! | 06:34 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8504f65 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.11 development. This will be the freeze version for 7.9. - http://bit.ly/aLQ1RS | 06:35 |
| scrottie | yay! | 06:42 |
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| elnino | using the carousel - I hope that in the newer versions I can simultaniously upload/insert my own image rather than uploading the images separately and providing the url to it?? | 06:46 |
| +perlDreamer | Nope | 06:56 |
| +perlDreamer | carousel has few users | 06:56 |
| +perlDreamer | and it uses the YUI Editor for adding content, which doesn't have any webgui plugins for handy things like uploading images | 06:56 |
| elnino | bummer, bucause it's getting to be pretty popular...http://www.randomhouse.com/ | 06:57 |
| elnino | Yes, I REALLY do not like YUI. I wish that decision to switch wasn't made. | 06:57 |
| +perlDreamer | are you serious? _the_ Random House? | 06:57 |
| @preaction | yui 3 is much better, honest injun | 06:57 |
| elnino | customer wants what random has. | 06:58 |
| @preaction | that one is flash | 06:58 |
| elnino | no no, I'm not that big. | 06:58 |
| elnino | yep. | 06:58 |
| +perlDreamer | carousel is flash | 06:58 |
| elnino | oh. | 06:58 |
| elnino | didnt' know that. | 06:58 |
| @preaction | our carousel isn't flash | 06:58 |
| +perlDreamer | yes it is | 06:58 |
| elnino | ok. you guys fight it out. | 06:58 |
| elnino | I'll be back after I look | 06:59 |
| elnino | if it is, I dont' see the flash code. | 07:00 |
| +perlDreamer | down in the bowels of the carousel page, it says "for example, current versions of the iPhone's Safari browser do not support Flash" | 07:01 |
| +perlDreamer | if it was pure JS, you wouldn't care about flash | 07:01 |
| @preaction | i added a carousel to a page and there are no instances of <embed or <object, so no flash | 07:02 |
| elnino | I see what preaction sees. | 07:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I recant | 07:03 |
| @preaction | or... do you mean that's on YUI's Carousel page? that's just an example | 07:03 |
| +perlDreamer | in the docs, it used to say prominently that Carousel depended on Flash | 07:04 |
| elnino | hmm. next topic. another customer wants http://www.drjenniferlevine.com/gallery_nasal.php type of gallery, but the pictures on the left do not match the picture on the right. I know how I can modify the templates to do this only if the left and right pictures were the same, but not if they are different. Any creatiive ideas? | 07:07 |
| elnino | did that come thru? xchat is looking weird. | 07:07 |
| +perlDreamer | elnino, it's all about how the thumbnails are displayed | 07:08 |
| elnino | can you crop on the fly? | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but no in the gallery | 07:09 |
| elnino | well, css. right? | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, set overflow:hidden and some other stuff, and it should tile | 07:09 |
| elnino | ok. I'll look into that. | 07:10 |
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| scrottie | http://github.com/scrottie/webgui/commit/b42116647b16331234f625d21aad16805ce69662 ... | 07:38 |
| scrottie | http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11747 | 07:39 |
| scrottie | I was doing something stupid. Eventually the stupidity occurred to me from staring at it perl -d long enough. | 07:41 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, there are more changes that precede that commit, yes? | 07:41 |
| scrottie | line 327 shouldn't be there. I'm really sucking at git today. | 07:42 |
| scrottie | but no, for that bug/test, that's it. | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I wouldn't change the standAlone mode variable | 07:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd just prevent it from entering the block at line 210 | 07:43 |
| +perlDreamer | if ($self->{_standAlone} && @{ $storyIds } ) | 07:43 |
| +perlDreamer | you don't know what else the user may be using the standAlone variable for in their template | 07:44 |
| +perlDreamer | so smallest possible impact is best | 07:44 |
| scrottie | the alternative would be to set $var->{standAlone} and leave $self->{_standAlone} alone... | 07:45 |
| scrottie | that would be more of a code change (which isn't necessarily bad), but without that variable being correct, the template is going to try to template in a lot of data that isn't there. | 07:45 |
| +perlDreamer | the loop will be empty, the variables will be empty | 07:46 |
| +perlDreamer | and they may have styling completely unrelated to that | 07:46 |
| scrottie | alright. fair enough. | 07:47 |
| scrottie | why can't I unstash changes on a dirty working tree? bah. | 07:52 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, bother | 07:53 |
| +perlDreamer | merge with master is 1/2 done | 08:04 |
| +perlDreamer | just running the suite to check the state of the code | 08:04 |
| scrottie | just in case anyone missed it, http://gist.github.com/477806 basically, mostly works. | 08:15 |
| scrottie | as always, requests happily considered. | 08:16 |
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| +perlDreamer | hm, first pass didn't go so well | 08:32 |
| +perlDreamer | time to fix a few | 08:32 |
| +perlDreamer | now, if only it took less than 20 minutes to run the whole suite | 08:34 |
| +perlDreamer | 'night, all | 08:39 |
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| scrottie | ... goodnight... | 08:40 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r49374b4 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Operations should be able to handle UTF-8 urls, too. Fixes bug #11683 - http://bit.ly/ai4iOL | 08:57 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r30f3897 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm : Handle import of templates with old attachments the correct way. - http://bit.ly/d0SZQm | 08:57 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9bc367d / (8 files in 5 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.10 release. - http://bit.ly/aXrw9m | 08:57 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8504f65 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.11 development. This will be the freeze version for 7.9. - http://bit.ly/aLQ1RS | 08:57 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rca9a3bd / (40 files in 22 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into WebGUI8, up to 7.9.10. Some tests failing due to changes in default content. - http://bit.ly/dzfb93 | 08:57 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf2a9dc2 / lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm : Fix a bug with temporary config files, and opening a new session. - http://bit.ly/cUlQrP | 08:59 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r33592f9 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/TransactionItem.pm : Fix taking address information, and the right fields in the transaction item. - http://bit.ly/b60PQQ | 09:03 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r058d3ef / lib/WebGUI/Shop/TransactionItem.pm : Fix taking address information, and the right fields in the transaction item. - http://bit.ly/aqjGpp | 09:03 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1689353 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/TransactionItem.pm : Fix a TransactionItem bug inherited from master. - http://bit.ly/ajRTu7 | 09:04 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:18 |
| +bartjol | hi | 16:28 |
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| * perlDreamer goes to the gym | 18:49 | |
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| SquOnk | Greetings | 18:49 |
| @preaction | morning | 18:49 |
| SquOnk | I just noticed that the spanish translation of tinymce-webgui stuff is not in spanish :-) | 18:50 |
| SquOnk | I'm just translating it for 7.8 altough I believe is the same for 7.9 | 18:51 |
| @preaction | probably | 18:51 |
| SquOnk | Should I push it in GIT or you guys prefer a bug with patch? | 18:51 |
| @preaction | i'm not sure if the tinymce stuff is handled by i18n.webgui.org or not | 18:51 |
| @preaction | might have to ask colin when he gets back from the gym, but most likely it's just a push to git | 18:52 |
| SquOnk | preaction: No, it isn't | 18:52 |
| SquOnk | preaction: Hold. Not sure actually | 18:53 |
| SquOnk | preaction: The GIT repo only has a single en.js file. The tarball has {es|de|nl}.js, all identical to the en.js | 18:53 |
| @preaction | yeah, colin will know, or Haarg | 18:54 |
| SquOnk | preaction: Well. Translation done and working beautifully :-) | 18:58 |
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| Haarg | i'm pretty sure that is handled by the translation server | 19:31 |
| SquOnk | Haarg: Let me see | 19:42 |
| SquOnk | Haarg: I'm talking about the es.js and es_dlg.js files in tinymce-plugins/*/langs | 19:43 |
| SquOnk | Haarg: I see nothing regarding tinymce on i18n.webgui.org | 19:44 |
| +perlDreamer | It has to be manually added to the translation server, so please file a ticket for it, and we'll go from there | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | something strange happened with last night's release | 19:58 |
| @preaction | well that's not good | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | the default mailFooter was changed | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | all the line endings went from \n to \r\n | 19:58 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: All right. I'll file a ticket in a minute. | 19:58 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Edited with VIM in dosmode. | 19:58 |
| @preaction | hmm... weird | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, I don't think so. | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | I think it's due to an updated version of firefox | 19:59 |
| SquOnk | All right, Spanish translation is at 100% again. | 20:00 |
| SquOnk | Now to file the tinymce-webgui bug | 20:00 |
| +perlDreamer | yep, it's firefox | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | the last update must have changed the default line endings | 20:03 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Good. | 20:05 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Bug has been filed with the translation attached. | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | it will be done by next Tuesday's release | 20:06 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Great. | 20:06 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: That would be 7.8.24, right? | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk: yes | 20:10 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: don't forget about the dispatch stuff. has to be in by next 7.9 release | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll setup a branch right now | 21:12 |
| @preaction | pull from preaction/webgui/dispatch | 21:12 |
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| @preaction | ... yay for focus follows eyeballs and colloquy's bugginess | 21:16 |
| @preaction | http://github.com/preaction/webgui/tree/dispatch | 21:16 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Scott Walters master * re033192 / (6 files in 6 dirs): StoryTopic 'Alphabetically' sort order - http://bit.ly/bstLNv | 21:19 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Scott Walters master * rca5ca46 / (2 files in 2 dirs): | 21:19 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Don't call methods on the first story item when there are no story items. | 21:19 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Fixes #11747. - http://bit.ly/8Xr6t3 | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: where is the dispatch specific stuff in that repo? | 21:20 |
| @preaction | the t/Asset/dispatch.t and t/Content/Asset.t | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | have they been committed and pushed? | 21:21 |
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| @preaction | perlDreamer: there, now they are | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, now let's talk through getUrlPermutation | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | is dispatch supposed to try each one of those, one by one? | 21:31 |
| @preaction | WebGUI::Content::Asset->dispatch should try each permutation starting with the longest, yes | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | and Asset->dispatch replace the tryMethod code in Content/Asset | 21:36 |
| @preaction | hmm.. i didn't handle the case where an asset turns down a request | 21:36 |
| @preaction | WebGUI::Asset->dispatch will do tryMethod, yes | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: will $fragment include query params in it, or will they still be pulled out of the session? | 21:42 |
| @preaction | query params will be pulled out | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we better do this in meatspace, and you can explain how you want it to work on a high level | 21:43 |
| @preaction | ok | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie: please backport the empty StoryTopic bug fix to webgui-7.8 branch | 22:15 |
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| scrottie | sure thing. | 22:20 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Scott Walters webgui-7.8 * r60e8aa6 / (2 files in 2 dirs): | 22:27 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Don't call methods on the first story item when there are no story items. | 22:27 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Fixes #11747. - http://bit.ly/cHiO3V | 22:27 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, scrottie | 22:28 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll keep taking care of WebGUI8 merging | 22:28 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Scott Walters master * r57a92dd / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Changelog entry for "Empty StoryTopics throw a fatal error when viewed (#11747)" - http://bit.ly/9gAzgq | 22:34 |
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| scrottie | changelog entries got lost in the shuffle. | 22:36 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Scott Walters webgui-7.8 * r06c15d4 / (3 files in 3 dirs): | 22:36 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Don't call methods on the first story item when there are no story items. | 22:36 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Fixes #11747. - http://bit.ly/8YCk0E | 22:36 |
| scrottie | no problem, and thank you. | 22:36 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: i added more tests for what should happen when the first asset declines the request | 23:04 |
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| Haarg | preaction, it's probably worth switching plain black over to an organization on github | 23:42 |
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| @preaction | yay focus! | 23:44 |
| @preaction | Haarg: yes, soon i hope | 23:44 |
| --- Day changed Thu Jul 29 2010 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: I don't think the @INC hackery worked correctly | 00:22 |
| @preaction | you mean %INC? | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | that either | 00:22 |
| +perlDreamer | try to run the test with this patch to fix the WebGUI::Test stuff: http://gist.github.com/496352 | 00:24 |
| @preaction | ah, because it should be in a BEGIN block probably | 00:24 |
| @preaction | oh, and it should be WebGUI/Asset/TestDispatch.pm | 00:24 |
| @preaction | i'll fix | 00:24 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, much better | 00:25 |
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| @preaction | keep forgetting that %INC is checked by require, not use, so we need to use what require would get | 00:26 |
| Haarg | preaction, it might be good to add some stuff to the wg8 issue tracker for target version and if it is a blocker | 00:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: I'd like to strip out the leading slash on those URLs. You cool with that? | 00:53 |
| @preaction | no, it's there for a reason: to make sure the system handles it correctly | 00:53 |
| @preaction | i have this dream where all URLs in webgui begin with a slash, so that "/" is a valid, unique URL | 00:54 |
| @preaction | (and is reserved for the one and only home page) | 00:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I think you and the gatewayUrl are going to have to armwrestle about that one | 00:54 |
| @preaction | gatewayUrl would no longer end with a slash (trailing slash would be deleted) | 00:55 |
| @preaction | so "" would mean "yeah, I own this site up in here" | 00:55 |
| @preaction | and "/webgui" would mean "hmm... i'm not fully ready to commit to the awesome of WebGUI, but i'm pretty close" | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I think we do this pretty well. | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | You get to be the young, dynamic motivator for change | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and I get to be the old, stodgy proponent of stability | 01:10 |
| @preaction | i resent that... "young"... | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | Young, as in, less than 0x32 | 01:10 |
| @preaction | 3*16+2? you're 54? | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | time to refactor | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I guess I'm really 0x28 | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | 050? | 01:11 |
| @preaction | ah, better | 01:12 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a relative designation, so don't be offended by it | 01:12 |
| Haarg | i should also mention | 01:12 |
| Haarg | gateway shouldn't exist anymore really | 01:13 |
| Haarg | should be removed in 8 | 01:13 |
| +perlDreamer | why, Haarg? | 01:13 |
| @preaction | it's handled by a middleware? | 01:13 |
| @preaction | "There's a middleware for that!" | 01:13 |
| +perlDreamer | URL translation? Cool! | 01:13 |
| Haarg | plack already handles it, yeah | 01:13 |
| +perlDreamer | file a bug for it | 01:14 |
| @preaction | sounds good to me! love pressing "dd" | 01:14 |
| Haarg | we only needed it due to some particulars in the apache response phases | 01:14 |
| +perlDreamer | all we'll need to do is figure out how to migrate from WebGUI.conf to plack.middle | 01:14 |
| Haarg | if you use mount '/webgui/ => $webgui_app in Plack::Builder | 01:15 |
| Haarg | $request->base is '/webgui/' | 01:16 |
| Haarg | basically | 01:16 |
| Haarg | roughly | 01:16 |
| Haarg | it's actually a URI object and there are some other particulars of how to make the url | 01:17 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, we need better dispatch tests | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | this made 6/7 pass: sub dispatch { | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | my ($self, $fragment) = @_; | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | if (! $fragment ) { | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | return $self->www_view; | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | } | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | } | 01:49 |
| +perlDreamer | http://gist.github.com/496612 | 01:50 |
| @preaction | and it won't make that last one pass until you get ?func working | 01:50 |
| @preaction | and does that one make the Content::Asset.t tests pass? | 01:51 |
| +perlDreamer | good question... | 01:51 |
| @preaction | the Asset/dispatch.t tests test a single asset's behavior. the Content/Asset.t test multiple assets' behaviors | 01:51 |
| +perlDreamer | nope, they don't | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | because Content::Asset::dispatch is just a stub | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I just think it's funny that 6/7 tests pass with 5 lines of code | 01:52 |
| @preaction | eh, that's most of what dispatch is, right there | 01:52 |
| @preaction | if func doesn't exist, and no fragment exists, you're just viewing the asset | 01:52 |
| @preaction | ah, it isn't www_edit, but it isn't anything else either. i'll add a couple more tests quick, those'll probably fail | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I need to fork your branch, so I can push someplace you can see | 01:55 |
| @preaction | new tests added, still not sure if we should show the not found page. historically that's been a horrible page to put users on (since by default it's the home page) | 02:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | 7.9 _is_ the time to break stuff | 02:15 |
| @preaction | heh, well, NotFound for now, but the tests leave the option open | 02:34 |
| scrottie | thunder! rain! | 02:42 |
| scrottie | it's been a long, hot summer here. | 02:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | all tests passing except for NotFound | 02:50 |
| +perlDreamer | really need a place to push, but that will come tomorrow | 02:50 |
| +perlDreamer | in the meantime, I'll be working offline at a summer concert. | 02:50 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: i'm going to port some of the exception handling stuff out of tryAssetMethod into Asset->dispatch | 02:51 |
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| scrottie | http://blogs.perl.org/users/josh_ben_jore/2010/07/the-mod-perl-debugger-youve-always-wanted.html | 03:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | I live in the coolest city in the whole United States | 05:50 |
| +perlDreamer | the Zoo has free wireless in the summer concert area | 05:50 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm jammin' out to Celtic Rock, and hacking! | 05:51 |
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| elnino | is here a way to find out who commited my version tag? | 05:54 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a committed by field | 05:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I think? | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | so, it would show up in the version tag screen, elnino | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | manage committed versions | 05:55 |
| elnino | I dont' see it. 7.7.x | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | Turn On Admin | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | Version Tags from admin console | 05:56 |
| +perlDreamer | Manage committed versions | 05:56 |
| elnino | oh. I see. but it's my name, I didn't do it. | 05:56 |
| +perlDreamer | which approval workflow are you using? | 05:57 |
| elnino | umm.. hold on | 05:57 |
| +perlDreamer | with, or without approval | 05:57 |
| +perlDreamer | what kind of asset was this? | 05:57 |
| +perlDreamer | details, elnino! I need details! :) | 05:57 |
| elnino | Im on the phone.. too... sorry. | 05:58 |
| * perlDreamer will wait :) | 05:59 | |
| elnino | =) | 05:59 |
| elnino | she's rambling.... I had a versoin tag with a boatload of changes and it got commiteteed by who I assume was victor.. but it says my name. | 06:14 |
| +perlDreamer | what's the workflow? Could he have become you to do this? | 06:15 |
| elnino | no, he doesn't have my password, nor is he admin. | 06:15 |
| elnino | the workflow is... | 06:15 |
| elnino | commit without approval. | 06:15 |
| elnino | multiple tags per user. | 06:16 |
| +perlDreamer | elnino, the committedBy field in the tag is populated by $session->user->userId | 06:17 |
| +perlDreamer | in 7.7, there's no way around that, unless you manually manipulate the tag | 06:17 |
| elnino | wow. I'm *pretty* sure I didn't. but I suppose I could have during her ramblings on the phone. | 06:18 |
| elnino | just call me crazy. wg doesn't lie. | 06:18 |
| +perlDreamer | oh no. wG can lie | 06:19 |
| +perlDreamer | you just have to tell it to | 06:19 |
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| melinda | hola | 06:21 |
| elnino | =) | 06:22 |
| +perlDreamer | howdy :) | 06:22 |
| +perlDreamer | melinda, have you come to wow us with a perplexing WebGUI question? | 06:23 |
| melinda | yes | 06:24 |
| melinda | i would like to know how can i install tab | 06:26 |
| +perlDreamer | what is "tab"? | 06:26 |
| melinda | tabs | 06:27 |
| +perlDreamer | what do you want tabs in? | 06:27 |
| melinda | is like menu bar | 06:27 |
| melinda | some pages can red in the same template | 06:28 |
| melinda | read | 06:28 |
| @preaction | sounds like either a carousel, or a custom folder or custom page layout template | 06:29 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, or a custom nav or something. but the nav already has a "tabbed" interface | 06:29 |
| melinda | Could you check this: http://www.machupicchutours.travel/inca-trails-2-days | 06:31 |
| melinda | i use this tabs but with java script | 06:31 |
| melinda | my boss wants a very nices tabs like this http://www.webgui.org/8 | 06:32 |
| @preaction | that's the YUI2 tabview widget | 06:33 |
| +perlDreamer | it's very cool | 06:33 |
| @preaction | (being used by the Helpdesk asset) | 06:33 |
| melinda | somebody can help me with this | 06:33 |
| @preaction | it supports loading content via AJAX, so you could pretty much just drop it into what you have now | 06:33 |
| @preaction | the #yui channel can help you with YUI. otherwise http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/tabview/ | 06:34 |
| elnino | melinda. I use the bullet list navigation template, and then style it like tabs. | 06:35 |
| +perlDreamer | elnino, that link she posted uses YUI tabs to do dynamic fetch of the links | 06:35 |
| +perlDreamer | it's more than a tabbed nav | 06:35 |
| +perlDreamer | but you could do the same thing with a custom template, or use YUI tabview, like preaction said | 06:36 |
| melinda | i tryed with bullet list but it doesn't work as tab | 06:37 |
| elnino | http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/ - is where I get the css code | 06:37 |
| +perlDreamer | zoo concert is ending, I'm heading home | 06:37 |
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| elnino | melinda - iI've been corrected, what I'm talking about is strickly for the navigation asset. | 06:37 |
| elnino | what I think you are looking at is more in the content of the page. | 06:38 |
| elnino | i careated a page layout template once that took all the articles and tabbed it all up like http://www.machupicchutours.travel/inca-trails-2-days | 06:38 |
| elnino | unfortunately, I dn't have that code anymore. | 06:38 |
| melinda | did you do that by yourself or did you get that code online | 06:40 |
| melinda | code | 06:40 |
| elnino | I found a site that I liked, and rewrote it for webgui as a template. | 06:41 |
| elnino | I have reason to belive that http://www.machupicchutours.travel/inca-trails-2-days is a webgui site... they may be able to give you that template if you know the people. | 06:42 |
| melinda | do you know how can i to configure webguil to do like this http://www.webgui.org/8 | 06:43 |
| * elnino looks | 06:43 | |
| melinda | yes i have been working in webgui system sice 1 year and i did the design and program the code icluding the tab but | 06:44 |
| melinda | this tab download fron the internet i have the code but my boss what to do everything automaticly that's why i am looking for the right way to do in webgui | 06:46 |
| melinda | can you help me with that | 06:47 |
| elnino | I would do it the same way as I did before. Create a pagelayout template that has all the YUI components in it, and make a article template that wraps the content the way it needs to be. | 06:47 |
| melinda | i was thinking problably i to need cofigurante something in PER code and data base... | 06:48 |
| elnino | no. I wouldn't. | 06:48 |
| elnino | others may have a different idea here though. there are often many ways to accomplish things in wg | 06:49 |
| elnino | so when your boss says do it "webgui's way" you probably already are. =) | 06:49 |
| elnino | unless he means use YUI. | 06:50 |
| elnino | where di dyou get the "tab download code" from the internet? | 06:50 |
| melinda | let see | 06:51 |
| elnino | ---- there is no need to change core code of webgui to do tabs. it's all in the templates. the YUI files are already included in webgui - so that would be "webgui's way" | 06:51 |
| melinda | here you are http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex17/ajaxtabscontent/ajaxtabs_suppliment.htm | 06:53 |
| elnino | oh. yeah, your tabs are pulling external html files. not really "webgui's way". =) | 06:55 |
| elnino | I dont' really konw how to help you do this online, other than doing it myself. | 06:56 |
| elnino | what timeframe are you looking at? | 06:56 |
| melinda | no i did in webguil it look link in html but i did using snipped | 06:57 |
| elnino | that's one way of doing it. that works. | 06:57 |
| elnino | but I suspect she/he wants artcicle assets. | 06:57 |
| elnino | brb | 06:59 |
| melinda | yes you right | 06:59 |
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| elnino | melinda. I need to help someone move very heavy furniture. I'll be back in about 1/2 hour - fourty five. | 07:14 |
| elnino | but before I go. | 07:14 |
| melinda | thanks bye | 07:15 |
| elnino | what I did was. used a 1 over 3 pagelayout template. and I used the three positions as the content for the three tabs. in the situation what I did, was they always had 3 tabs. will you have a consistnat number of tabs at all times? that would be easiest. or maybe if we are really creative we can get around that. | 07:16 |
| elnino | think about it, I'll be back. | 07:16 |
| melinda | could you give me you mail adress to write because i will try to do that you tell me | 07:17 |
| melinda | i did that before but i have a website really big | 07:21 |
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| scrottie0 | I set up a squid proxy listening on port 443. T-Mobile *still* intercepted HTTP traffic to it and gave me the nastygram. | 07:43 |
| * scrottie0 sighs.... | 07:43 | |
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| elnino | can I create a sqlreort agains a datatable asset? I suspect not... so I suppose I should use thingy and use a sql report on that... | 09:04 |
| elnino | what formats can I import into thingy? | 09:10 |
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| @preaction | so if i were to add a diff engine to be able to see differences between asset revisions, how would you expect that to be used? being able to see individual asset revision diffs, yes, but perhaps also being able to see a diff of a whole version tag? | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | assets | 19:21 |
| @preaction | but only assets? you only work with single assets? or do you also work with entire version tags to approve? | 19:22 |
| @preaction | this is really a helpful function for approvers | 19:22 |
| @preaction | well, and the Wiki | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I would expect it to only work on assets | 19:22 |
| @preaction | of course, but VersionTag is a collection of assets | 19:22 |
| @preaction | or rather, a collection of revisions of assets | 19:22 |
| @preaction | so i could collect all the changes and display all the changes in a tag | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | from tag to tag however, I don't think many assets would be shared | 19:23 |
| @preaction | no, you wouldn't diff two tags | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | or are you saying you'd find each asset in the tag, and diff them against rev-1 of each asset? | 19:23 |
| @preaction | like how github lets you see an entire commit | 19:23 |
| @preaction | and then you can drill down and see each file's changes in that commit | 19:24 |
| @preaction | so you have two choices: the entire commit diff, or just a single file's revision diff | 19:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | that sounds like a cool idea | 19:51 |
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| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8246b7e / sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl : Also find assets that are missing entries in their class hierarchy, as well as in asset and assetData. - http://bit.ly/cEkozd | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, is there any good reason webgui-7.8 shouldn't have findBrokenAssets.pl? | 20:32 |
| @preaction | nope | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I just fixed a bug in it, and tried to backport the changes to 7.8 | 20:33 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rbbb222b / sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl : Add findBrokenAssets script. - http://bit.ly/aTDTed | 20:33 |
| @preaction | do we really need to keep every revision in a version tag? can the tag just update the revision inside it? | 20:47 |
| @preaction | i have a feeling this diff thing will get ugly otherwise | 20:47 |
| @preaction | i could change three words, have three revisions, but really i only care that it used to not have those words, and now it does. i don't care that it took three revisions to get to that point inside the same version tag | 20:48 |
| Haarg | i was always unsure of that, but you could easily work around it for the diff thing | 20:54 |
| Haarg | just compare the most recent version in each tag | 20:54 |
| @preaction | right, it's just one more thing the implementor has to do | 20:58 |
| @preaction | so easy to test, but difficult to implement | 20:58 |
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| * scrottie waves to patspam1 | 21:03 | |
| patspam1 | hola! | 21:03 |
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| @preaction | Haarg: don't we need to know the gateway in order to generate URLs? | 21:35 |
| Haarg | $request->base | 21:35 |
| @preaction | ahh | 21:36 |
| Haarg | i did file an issue for that | 21:36 |
| @preaction | i think i built this whole admin console without taking gateways into account | 21:36 |
| @preaction | nor CSRF tokens, but that one should be easy | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, if this dispatch stuff works, I'm going to add the dispatch override to the RSS plugin to get .rss URLs. | 22:15 |
| +perlDreamer | there's already a test for that AssetAspect | 22:16 |
| +perlDreamer | this should be a snap | 22:16 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, preaction. dispatch should return undef if it wants the getNotFound page to be displayed | 22:18 |
| @preaction | why undef specifically? why not just return; ? | 22:18 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI may call the handler in list context | 22:19 |
| +perlDreamer | we had that problem earlier, when we were trying to get PerlCritic compliant | 22:19 |
| +perlDreamer | so return undef is the law; | 22:19 |
| @preaction | uh... in what universe? | 22:19 |
| +perlDreamer | It was about 3 years ago | 22:19 |
| +perlDreamer | it's in WGBP on the wiki | 22:20 |
| @preaction | i remember the problem | 22:20 |
| @preaction | ok, for now | 22:20 |
| @scrottie | hmm? if(my @arr = sub { return undef } ) { print "true\n" } | 22:21 |
| @scrottie | I'm probably missing something in the sense of the conversation, but return without undef is the law, if you ask the PBP/perlcritic people. | 22:22 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, I would suggest reading WebGUI's wiki, for the pages that talk about development best practices | 22:22 |
| +perlDreamer | there is a very, very good reason that WebGUI does not use bare returns | 22:23 |
| +perlDreamer | it has to do with the choice of coding style | 22:23 |
| +perlDreamer | as preaction alluded, it will change in the future | 22:23 |
| @preaction | because if an empty list is returned while inside a hashref constructor, you get a hashref with an odd number | 22:23 |
| @scrottie | oi. | 22:23 |
| @preaction | sub myValue { return }; my $hashref = { one => myValue(), two => "something" } <- not a valid hashref | 22:24 |
| @preaction | unless you one => scalar myValue(), | 22:24 |
| Haarg | it | 22:25 |
| Haarg | 's a style decision but too much existing code relies on a scalar return | 22:25 |
| @scrottie | eek | 22:27 |
| * scrottie missed a ->() anyway | 22:27 | |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: the new cart changes in 7.9 are just code and template right? no alterations to DB schema? | 22:43 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, changes to schema | 23:10 |
| +perlDreamer | the Cart schema changed | 23:10 |
| @preaction | hell | 23:11 |
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| @preaction | i made a promise before i found out if i could keep it | 23:11 |
| @preaction | well, i suppose i can just upgrade TGC as soon as 7.9 goes stable | 23:11 |
| @preaction | but i have to have the cart changes right now :( | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | also, the addressBook schema changed | 23:14 |
| @preaction | switching gears: Asset helpers, is there any reason why you would NOT want them to be modal? | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | if there aren't any carts in the db, the change won't hurt anything | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | what is "modal" in that context, preaction? | 23:16 |
| @preaction | if you're using one, you should either finish or cancel before doing anything else | 23:16 |
| @preaction | modal, blocking any other action in the admin console until it's either finished or cancelled | 23:17 |
| @preaction | change url, for example, should be finished before anything else is done | 23:17 |
| @preaction | rotate image, same deal | 23:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think it's a big problem. If I needed to do something else, I'll just open another browser window. | 23:17 |
| @preaction | i'm just thinking that there should be an "openDialog" target, instead of "openTab" | 23:18 |
| @preaction | but to keep things simple, it'll still be an iframe inside that dialog. otherwise the admin console could be damaged by the code in the dialog | 23:22 |
| @preaction | if you want something different, there's the scriptFile, scriptFunction, scriptArgs thing | 23:22 |
| +perlDreamer | patspam: http://radar.oreilly.com/2010/07/redesigning-the-new-york-city.html | 23:27 |
| CIA-61 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r3be9ca7 / lib/WebGUI/Admin.pm : add processAssetHelper method to process helpers (+9 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/arUSsF | 23:51 |
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| @preaction | who did we make these cart changes for? | 00:36 |
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| @tavisto | what do you mean? | 00:58 |
| @preaction | just wondering why there are bugs in it that haven't been reported yet | 01:00 |
| @preaction | or maybe it's because i'm hacking the new stuff in | 01:00 |
| @tavisto | Well Colin has gone over the cart several times and the paypal one was one that I discovered like a day or two ago.. but that doesn't necessarily relate to the cart's functionality | 01:01 |
| @tavisto | it's probably due to your hackery | 01:01 |
| @preaction | since there wasn't an upgrade path to 7.9.10 from 7.8.17, i did some jiggery-pokery that'll need to be undone when 7.9 goes stable | 01:01 |
| @preaction | but that's what i get for promising something on my assumption that I specifically upgraded to 7.8.13 and no further for a very specific reason | 01:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | the paypal bug is not caused by the cart changes | 01:17 |
| @tavisto | preaction: I'm going to gut perlDreamer and grill his entrails for dinner tonight. | 01:21 |
| @tavisto | tavisto: don't do it doug, he's a nice man and has a family | 01:22 |
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| CIA-61 | webgui: Doug Bell master * rc931cab / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm): fix #11755: New cart does not update shipping - http://bit.ly/acfLMy | 01:34 |
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| scrottie0 | I bet perlDreamer is tough and stringy. | 02:43 |
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