WebGUI irc logs from: 2010-05.log

--- Log opened Sat May 01 00:00:02 2010
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rcb8c8da / (2 files in 2 dirs): Per item shipping. - http://bit.ly/cjR4ML	02:42
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0179930 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm : Give the perItem dropdowns the same class name. - http://bit.ly/9oWXbZ	02:45
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bsdwarrior2	What is the most common used/working os/distro for webgui? have been having trouble installing under freebsd	04:08
+perlDreamer	bsdwarrior2, most people use either a red hat-ish, or a debian-ish	04:22
+perlDreamer	a lot of the devs use Mac OS X	04:22
bsdwarrior2	i downloaded the freebsd binary and it bombs all over the place .specifically about config::json	04:22
+perlDreamer	hm, that's actually good news	04:23
+perlDreamer	the WRE does not contain EVERY module that WebGUI needs	04:23
+perlDreamer	but only those that were needed when it was last released	04:23
+perlDreamer	did you try running the testEnvironment.pl script, in /data/WebGUI/sbin?	04:23
+perlDreamer	pass it the --simpleReport switch to get a listing of what is out of data for the installed version of WebGUI	04:25
bsdwarrior2	dont have that script only have setenvironment.pl	04:25
+perlDreamer	do you have a /data/WebGUI directory?	04:25
bsdwarrior2	yes	04:25
+perlDreamer	and, inside it, there's a sbin sub-directory?	04:25
bsdwarrior2	yes	04:25
+perlDreamer	/data/WebGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl	04:25
+perlDreamer	that's what you want	04:26
+perlDreamer	you have to run it from that directory	04:26
+perlDreamer	it's kind of picky that way	04:26
bsdwarrior2	that file does not exist in wre-0.9.3-freebsd-6.2-ia32.tar.gz	04:27
bsdwarrior2	plus Im already running perl & mysql. I dont need to run that two times on my system. It almost seems like this software should be put in a vm.	04:28
+perlDreamer	you could run it in a vm	04:28
+perlDreamer	also, you don't have to run the WRE to use WebGUI	04:29
+perlDreamer	but it's very tightly integrated and tuned to work well	04:29
+perlDreamer	so it's either all or none	04:29
+perlDreamer	can't use just pieces of the WRE	04:29
bsdwarrior2	which distro is the most updated? debian, ubuntu?	04:30
+perlDreamer	neither, both?	04:31
+perlDreamer	they're all released as a set	04:31
+perlDreamer	for all platforms	04:31
+perlDreamer	you might want to check out these instructions for installing the WRE: http://www.webgui.org/wiki/wre-installation	04:32
+perlDreamer	there's also a wiki page for building the WRE on BSD	04:32
bsdwarrior2	well it dont work on freebsd 8.0 this does not seem very freebsd friendly. Will have to put this in a vm with linux. I can't have this software take over a production system. Dont mean to be a smart ass, thanks for the help	04:34
+perlDreamer	well, like I mentioned earlier, you don't have to use the WRE to use WebGUI	04:35
+perlDreamer	but as you will.	04:35
bsdwarrior2	the source still packages perl mysql,etc. what good does that do me?	04:36
+perlDreamer	that's the WRE source	04:38
+perlDreamer	try downloading the WebGUI source itself	04:38
bsdwarrior2	ok	04:38
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kimd	Morning preaction! Logging the channel? Or did you fall asleep in front of your computer?	10:29
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+perlDreamer	upgraded to Ubuntu 10.4	19:47
+perlDreamer	not too shabby	19:47
+perlDreamer	but the debian webgui package was a big pain	19:47
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--- Day changed Sun May 02 2010
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r69a2710 / t/Shop/TaxDriver/EU.t : Update the EU tax test for new Cart code. - http://bit.ly/cCGxR9	08:57
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd2d50d8 / lib/WebGUI/Content/Wizard.pm : POD for Content/Wizard - http://bit.ly/cFymaL	09:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3eb479c / lib/WebGUI/Content/Setup.pm : Fix module usage. - http://bit.ly/cwlPvs	09:26
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb2cf1cc / docs/upgrades/packages-7.9.4/greenportal.wgpkg : Fix bad extras in the greenportal package. - http://bit.ly/cieVnH	09:30
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rcbad514 / (3 files): Fix bad gateway macros in the new style templates. - http://bit.ly/9GYKNm	09:35
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6a77eb0 / docs/upgrades/packages-7.9.4/greenportal.wgpkg : Fix bad extras macros in the greenportal style. - http://bit.ly/cq126J	09:37
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r884e61a / lib/WebGUI/Help/PayDriver_ITransact.pm : Fix broken ITransact template variable help - http://bit.ly/bERZ2r	09:39
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r02c4c5c / (t/Macro/MiniCart.t t/Shop/PayDriver.t): Cleanup tests that were leaking carts. - http://bit.ly/9I1uVs	09:54
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc6b3438 / t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm : Add cleanup for Workflow Instances. - http://bit.ly/blZuLj	10:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdbca5b3 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Cleanup more tests that are leaking carts due to address book useId issues. - http://bit.ly/9iKGFU	10:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4a9a46f / (lib/WebGUI/Cache/CHI.pm t/Cache/CHI.t): Add missing module to Cache::CHI. Fix tests to add a cache config if the current config file does not have one. - http://bit.ly/dbbQmW	10:28
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8fe4c33 / t/Content/Setup.t : Update Content::Setup test for new WebGUI::Wizard - http://bit.ly/bUUvip	10:37
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r29d0d72 / t/Shop/PayDriver/Ogone.t : Fix a syntax error I introduced into the Ogone test. - http://bit.ly/bm87JW	10:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r42a6b61 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a bad delete button in the view inbox template. Fixes bug #11547 - http://bit.ly/baIQLd	10:56
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r5df334b / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a bad delete button in the view inbox template. Fixes bug #11547 - http://bit.ly/9zIxDC	10:58
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb9c2a3b / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make the Date macro handle leading and trailing whitespace. Fixes bug #11542. - http://bit.ly/cdSPjq	11:08
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r0f4066c / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make the Date macro handle leading and trailing whitespace. Fixes bug #11542. - http://bit.ly/d3pGma	11:08
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rdc60d01 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Really make the wiki sort by popularity (then lineage). Fixes bug #11537 - http://bit.ly/9AKae2	11:18
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1c70821 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Really make the wiki sort by popularity (then lineage). Fixes bug #11537 - http://bit.ly/910Mva	11:18
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@preaction	what if the WRE did not include the CPAN dependencies?	02:43
+perlDreamer	the WRE needs some base modules to start with, like Config::JSON	02:45
+perlDreamer	JSON	02:45
+perlDreamer	It would prevent people from trying to install the WRE and then start WebGUI right away	02:45
+perlDreamer	what other advantage do you see?	02:45
+perlDreamer	it would slow down the install though	02:46
@preaction	it would allow me to make the WRE. right now I can't	02:50
@preaction	unless we drop OS X as a supported WRE platform	02:51
+perlDreamer	what won't build on Mac OS X now?	03:09
@preaction	Class::MOP in 32-bit compatibility mode	03:12
@preaction	but then it's been a few months since i've tried	03:12
+perlDreamer	preaction: just as a heads up	03:38
+perlDreamer	spent about an hour last night cleaning up the new style	03:38
+perlDreamer	bad macros, bad URLs and other issues	03:38
@preaction	which new style?	03:38
+perlDreamer	crystalx, underground, and the green one	03:38
+perlDreamer	none of them were i18n'ed	03:38
+perlDreamer	and still aren't	03:38
+perlDreamer	also, they're currently all deployed into the root/import	03:39
+perlDreamer	is that where they should live hierarchially, or should them be in some sub-folder?	03:39
@preaction	i don't know what's been decided yet, the TWG thread has been dead since i posted that i had completed my work	03:39
+perlDreamer	we need to make a decision before Tuesday's release	03:44
+perlDreamer	I'll bump the thread tomorrow	03:44
@preaction	i'm not even sure those styles will remain in the distro at all	03:45
+perlDreamer	so they'll be out before Tuesday?	03:46
@preaction	no, because nobody from TWG has responded to me	03:46
+perlDreamer	something that totally blows me away	04:12
+perlDreamer	having the formatCurrency method in the cart throw an exception if it is passed an empty string or undef has exposed tons of cart bugs	04:13
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd92347b / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm : Use a method rather than reinventing the getPaymentGateway method. - http://bit.ly/cJGPR0	04:13
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+bartjol	aaah sometimes I forget features of webgui	18:22
+perlDreamer	it _is_ big	18:27
ckotil	and beautiful	18:31
+bartjol	I almost volunteered for writing a plugin (it's a syndication project), till I realized a httpproxy wobject would do the trick	18:35
+bartjol	ah, and I see that I conclude the same as other people on the anonymous registration forum posts	18:36
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@scrottie	life is good.	20:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r24b1682 / (3 files in 2 dirs): i18n for the PayDriver summary variables. - http://bit.ly/cl0J8h	20:27
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@preaction	good is okay, but amazing would be good	20:30
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r127e963 / docs/upgrades/packages-7.9.4/shopping-cart-collateral-items.wgpkg : Change location of yesNo and i18n for chooseing same shipping and billing addresses. - http://bit.ly/cFimRH	20:49
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9e2e39c / docs/upgrades/packages-7.9.4/shopping-cart-collateral-items.wgpkg : Fix a template typo. - http://bit.ly/cd9J7j	20:53
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0c4cb91 / (3 files in 2 dirs): Update template variables for ITransact payment driver. - http://bit.ly/9AixML	23:45
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--- Day changed Tue May 04 2010
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r36169ef / (3 files in 2 dirs): Template variable help docs for the Ogone template. - http://bit.ly/aV348f	00:06
kimd	Is it possible to execute macros in "extra head tags" under metadata?	00:08
+perlDreamer	I can't remember in which order that's done, kimd	00:09
kimd	At the moment, macros seem to return nothing.	00:09
kimd	The problem I have is that I want to add meta data to my site for sharing functions.	00:10
+perlDreamer	they can't return nothing unless they're being executed	00:10
kimd	Well, in that case they seem to be executed.	00:10
kimd	I have the following in the header section:	00:11
kimd	<meta name="description" content="<tmpl_var synopsis escape="html">" />	00:11
kimd	And I get the following in the page source:	00:11
kimd	<meta name="description" content="" />	00:11
+perlDreamer	that means there is no synopsis for the page	00:11
kimd	Ah. I meant tamplate vars, of course.	00:11
kimd	Nothing to do with macros at all.	00:12
+perlDreamer	no	00:12
+perlDreamer	and in a style template, synopsis would probably be the synopsis of the template	00:12
kimd	But isn't the synopsis auto-generated? I am talking about the collaboration system here.	00:12
+perlDreamer	not the page that's using it	00:12
kimd	Hm. Anyway I can get the synopsis of the thread being rendered into the html header?	00:13
kimd	Any way ...	00:13
+perlDreamer	yes	00:14
kimd	?	00:14
+perlDreamer	thinking...	00:14
kimd	Am I supposed to think?	00:14
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kimd	I am no longer capable of doing that. It is past 11 over here and I spent two hours on finding a solution for this.	00:15
+perlDreamer	In Asset.pm, processStyle adds the synopsis to the style template automatically	00:15
+perlDreamer	so it surprises me that it isn't happening already	00:15
kimd	Are you saying, that the template var should get replaced with the synopsis in fact?	00:16
+perlDreamer	no	00:16
+perlDreamer	it should show up along with all the other automatically made extra head tags	00:16
kimd	Why should it show up in head tags? It is definitely not there. Only a title element providing some information.	00:17
kimd	And that is auto-generated.	00:17
+perlDreamer	so, for a little context, you built a CS	00:18
+perlDreamer	added threads and posts	00:18
+perlDreamer	and when you view a post, you want to see the synopsis from the post show up in the head tags?	00:19
xdanger	^Page(synopsis); ?	00:19
kimd	perlDreamer, that is exactly what I want to do.	00:20
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re21ce2c / (2 files in 2 dirs): Template variable help docs for the Cash plugin - http://bit.ly/c006Hd	00:21
kimd	When using AddThis.com sharing functionality expects the respective information provided via head meta tags.	00:21
kimd	Facebook expects...	00:21
+perlDreamer	kimd, I'd have to build one (probably using a demo site) to see what's going on.	00:22
+perlDreamer	If it doesn't show the Synopsis from the Thread in the head tags, it is definitely a bug	00:22
+perlDreamer	but WebGUI doesn't let you display just 1 post	00:22
+perlDreamer	so if it's the Post you're looking for, it will not work	00:23
+perlDreamer	whenever you view a post, it always shows the Thread that contains it	00:23
kimd	No, it's fine to get the synopsis of the thread.	00:23
kimd	But the respective template var seems to be empty.	00:23
+perlDreamer	it wouldn't show up in the synopsis variable	00:24
+perlDreamer	it would show up in...	00:24
kimd	@xdanger: ^Page(synopsis); returns the expected result, btw	00:24
+perlDreamer	head.tags template variable	00:25
kimd	Ok. So, it's not possible to access regular template variables of an arbitrary asset in the extra head tags session?	00:26
+perlDreamer	no, because those template variables aren't available there	00:27
kimd	Oh, that is making everything a lot more complicated. In addition to the synopsis I would require thumbnails as well.	00:28
kimd	But the page macro should work, correct?	00:28
+perlDreamer	you sure you don't want an RSS Feed?	00:28
kimd	No. Definitely not. These are in place already. Some users have requested "Share on..." functionality.	00:28
kimd	AddThis is taking care of pretty much everything. Except for thumbnails.	00:29
kimd	Those need to be specified in the header.	00:29
@preaction	you could override getMetaDataAsTemplateVariables in the asset you're using to put some template vars in the head block	00:31
kimd	Ok. Going to bed. Thanks for your time, perlDreamer. Very much appreciated.	00:31
kimd	I am going to write a few tests in return ;-)	00:31
+perlDreamer	I wish I had a better answer for you, kimd	00:32
+perlDreamer	I'm sorry	00:32
@preaction	but really, why don't we have the same set of vars in the head block as the body?	00:32
@preaction	it would take like 5 minutes to do	00:32
+perlDreamer	preaction, they're _supposed_ to be in the head tags already, from what I can see	00:32
+perlDreamer	both prepareView and processStyle add the synopsis	00:32
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4933e5d / (5 files in 2 dirs): Template variable help for the Pay Pal modules, and name the ITransact template better. - http://bit.ly/918Kbp	00:33
@preaction	i'm looking at WebGUI::Asset::Template->prepare	00:33
+perlDreamer	Asset->processStyle says the synopsis is added	00:36
+perlDreamer	likewise with prepareView	00:36
kimd	preaction, would that be possible? Should I submit an RFE on that?	00:41
kimd	One could at least add those variables provided through prepareView, right?	00:41
@preaction	yes, but it changes where the computationally expensive stuff happens	00:42
@preaction	i would say it's a bug in AddThis that they require something from the head block and can't get it passed in	00:42
@preaction	alternatively, you could add the extra tag in the head block through javascript	00:43
kimd	In fact, it seems to be an issue with facebook. There is a mechanism for passing such data. The "description" metadata, however, is being ignored. And for thumbnails you need to link them inside the header.	00:45
kimd	Very stupid, very inconvenient to handle.	00:45
kimd	But JS may be a solution to that. I will have a look at it tomorrow.	00:46
@preaction	so it's facebook grabbing the page and grepping for a meta tag with the image?	00:46
@preaction	if so, JS won't work, as it probably won't be a web browser	00:46
kimd	It seems so.	00:46
kimd	Hm. If you look at it that way. Yeah, you are right.	00:47
kimd	Does it make sense to submit that RFE? Or would it get rejected due to performance issues?	00:47
@preaction	this would make a good rfe though: http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Facebook_Share/Specifying_Meta_Tags	00:47
@preaction	being able to specify extra head tags stuff. you could just write it directly in prepareView	00:48
kimd	I cannot follow. Do you suggest to have these tags be auto-generated?	00:49
@preaction	yes. have the asset generate the tags itself	00:49
kimd	Can we have that in the core? I mean, it's only facebook and probably a view community sites that require those tags. And possible Google...	00:50
@preaction	it's one of those things probably nobody thought to ask for, they don't know they want it yet	00:52
kimd	Well, I will write an RFE tomorrow and wait for your / JTs reply.	00:53
kimd	But now I am definitely going to bed. Good night everyone.	00:53
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+perlDreamer	preaction, I'm still neck deep in Cart 1.5, and soon the wiki, but I think that what he wants should already work	00:53
@preaction	it doesn't. only metadata variables are available in the extra head tags block of a template	00:54
+perlDreamer	synopsis is treated like a metadata variable	00:54
@preaction	but synopsis doesn't have the storage location	00:55
+perlDreamer	that's a separate problem, and one that can be solved with a macro?	00:56
+perlDreamer	^Page(storageId);	00:56
@preaction	but why force users to go through that when they just want facebook sharing to work?	00:57
@preaction	and it's more: ^StorageUrl(^Page(storageId);,"thumb");	00:57
+perlDreamer	sure, once you have the storageId it's all downhill from there	00:57
+perlDreamer	about users, I guess it's just a balance between how much processing it takes, how much extra data it is to download, versus how many people use it	00:58
+perlDreamer	you wouldn't see many intranet pages being posted on Facebook :)	00:58
@preaction	that could be a config setting "enable social networking features"	01:00
+perlDreamer	yeah	01:02
+perlDreamer	or like mobileStyle	01:02
@preaction	i think it might be a good idea to have packs of these kinds of things, mixins that extend current asset behaviors. plack middlewares will make this easy, as long as we pass around objects instead of HTML	01:05
@preaction	that way you can have a bare-bones WebGUI with nothing, or you can layer on features you want and leave out features you don't	01:05
+perlDreamer	I like that	01:08
@preaction	imagine being able to hack additional template tags into an existing asset without having to subclass or edit the asset itself	01:13
+perlDreamer	like via a role?	01:13
+perlDreamer	I guess that's editing the asset...	01:13
@preaction	well, you could force extra stuff into the class, but i was thinking more like pre- or post-processing to change behaviors	01:14
@preaction	it's... kinda possible in the 7x, but it's easier in Plack, and even easier once we get really lazy about how a response is constructed	01:15
+perlDreamer	the cat's out of the bag, now	01:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rec2d6a8 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt docs/gotcha.txt): Document Shop and Cart changes for users. - http://bit.ly/aqkASW	01:17
* perlDreamer heads out to pick up da kiddoz		01:21
* scrottie squints his ears.		01:25
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* perlDreamer looks, and scrottie still looks like he has ears, squinty or not		02:08
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CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * re26723f / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm www/extras/shop/cart.js): handling per-item shipping dropdowns in js - http://bit.ly/cCzhV1	03:06
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * ra6a7c6c / www/extras/shop/cart.js : fixing possible price summary update bug -	03:24
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * r10d86db / www/extras/shop/cart.js : send billing info as shipping in updateSummary if box is checked -	03:33
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * ref53ad0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add the missing documentation for the by keyword template in the WikiMaster. - http://bit.ly/9zjcbh	04:55
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb2dd613 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add the missing documentation for the by keyword template in the WikiMaster. - http://bit.ly/aQuTP1	05:10
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5afdefe / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.pm : Foundational work for wiki sub-keywords. - http://bit.ly/ar3lCt	05:10
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3ea9f29 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.pm : add a method to save the new keywords from the from in www_byKeyword. - http://bit.ly/atJcsw	05:30
@preaction	Dancer got a lot of things right, but it's got a lot of growing to do	05:57
@preaction	and damnit, like everyone else it seems to think "app == site"	06:01
+perlDreamer	you like app == url better, right?	06:18
ckotil	im content with app=iphone	06:22
ckotil	and spirit rocks. for jailbreaking my stupid phone	06:22
ckotil	i accidentally let it uprgrade itself a few months ago, and ive been unable to jailbreak it until today	06:23
@preaction	i like "app == set of URLs"	06:28
@preaction	app == way to display content. site == set of apps	06:28
ckotil	an app to me is a set of tool(s) that does what i need	06:31
@preaction	well that could describe a site too, so what's unique about an app?	06:34
ckotil	nothing. a site can be ana pp	06:41
ckotil	app too	06:41
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@preaction	"can be", yes, but not "must be". so a site has other things that distinguish it from just an app (like, perhaps, other apps)	06:42
ckotil	yeah	06:58
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7dd02d6 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.pm : Pull hierarchial keywords from the wiki, instead of pages in it. - http://bit.ly/98aBIa	07:28
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3096054 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Template variable help for the new wiki sub-keywords. - http://bit.ly/ao5FXg	07:34
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SDuensin	Howdy.	17:15
+bartjol	rawhide!	17:19
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CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop no-utility * r869efbe / (101 files in 29 dirs): remove WebGUI::Utility - http://bit.ly/doWyxX	19:46
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9840031 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Shade the buttons with CSS. Don't show per-item shipping if there's only 1 item in the cart. - http://bit.ly/bNPcvf	20:21
+perlDreamer	I learned something new about WebGUI today	20:21
+perlDreamer	for years, I've set ID's on HTML form elements using the extras parameter	20:21
+perlDreamer	extras => q\|id="myId"\|	20:21
+perlDreamer	but today I learned that you can set it directly	20:21
+perlDreamer	id => "myId"	20:22
+perlDreamer	Form::Control takes that and does the right thing	20:22
+perlDreamer	and, unlike the extras, if you give the form element a name, it won't override the id	20:23
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Diggy	greetz to all!	20:57
+perlDreamer	yo, Diggy	20:57
* perlDreamer is heading to the library, be back in a bit		20:58
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Diggy	brb	21:00
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Diggy	yeesh, i had to work!	21:23
Diggy	ok, i'm ready to pull the trigger on buying a couple of webgui books	21:24
Diggy	using OPM, of course	21:24
Diggy	but, i forgot which ones would be most useful	21:25
Diggy	(sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll have killed off all but 3 brain cells)	21:26
Diggy	i think pD mentioned Content Manager's Guide, and the Designer's Guide	21:26
Diggy	i DO need the steenkeeng manuals!	21:27
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@bopbop	diggy: what is your role... what kind of work will you be doing on the site? Content Managers will give instructions on how to use all the assets and give a brief intro to workflow. Design Guide will give tips for templating said assets.	21:28
Diggy	well, we're a 75-person (and growing) shop, so i do it all	21:28
Diggy	i thing Designer's Guide, for sure	21:29
@bopbop	you can get a preview of each on lulu-- it'll give you glimpse at the table of contents for each	21:29
@bopbop	might help	21:29
Diggy	i'll do that	21:29
Diggy	at least i'm fairly sure that i'll get the Designer's Guide	21:30
Diggy	btw, do any of the proceeds from sale of books go to support the project?	21:30
@bopbop	to be honest, there isn't much overhead	21:31
@bopbop	they're really expensive to publish	21:31
Diggy	ok. i do like to support foss when i can	21:32
@bopbop	but yes, anything you purchase from plainblack does funnel back in - in some way or the other	21:32
Diggy	good 2 know	21:32
Diggy	just took a look at the toc's of the various books	21:38
Diggy	i guess Administrator's Guide would be useful, 2	21:38
Diggy	(2 books blows my budget :-)	21:39
@bopbop	yeah- it's a bit outdated, but still relevant	21:39
Diggy	do you have any idea how often they're updated?	21:39
@bopbop	normally, we update about once a year- the admin guide has been about two years	21:39
@bopbop	however, it's still current enough	21:40
Diggy	ok	21:40
@bopbop	there aren't too many major changes	21:40
Diggy	as i mentioned last chat, i need to get up 2 speed pretty quickly	21:41
Diggy	am just smart enough to figure many thing out myself	21:41
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Diggy	sorry i can't chat some more; gotta do work	22:15
Diggy	l8r	22:15
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@preaction	perlDreamer: did you merge the spectre fix into the last 7.8 release?	22:50
+perlDreamer	I believe so	22:50
@preaction	k, just wondering	22:50
* perlDreamer will check the changelog		22:50
+perlDreamer	18b679d2	22:51
+perlDreamer	that's it	22:51
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@tavisto	perlDreamer, is this interesting to you? http://packages.ubuntu.com/hu/lucid/webgui	23:22
@tavisto	This looks like a Master of the Universe @ Ubuntu devs is maintaining a wG package?	23:23
@tavisto	dionak, I wonder if William knows about this	23:24
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carogray	hi	23:25
dionak	hi carogray	23:25
dionak	perlDreamer, I'll mention it to him	23:25
carogray	can you remove sort order from a folder and organize files according to how you want	23:25
carogray	hi Dionak!	23:25
dionak	you are on my list to email.	23:25
carogray	me too	23:26
carogray	on the phone with someone who needs my help	23:26
carogray	know the answer to this one?	23:26
dionak	i think what you're looking for can be accomplished by using Rank	23:27
carogray	we did that - it works if you are logged in, but not logged in just does ascending order.	23:27
carogray	tried clearing cache - no luck	23:27
dionak	off the top of my head, i'm not sure	23:28
dionak	anyone else?	23:28
carogray	also when she first tried this, she made the new file be 1 in rank, WebGUI assigned it null!	23:30
carogray	also - this does not seem to be versioned	23:30
dionak	are you using a folder asset or the asset manager?	23:30
carogray	files are in folder	23:31
dionak	or a folder asset in the asset manager?	23:31
carogray	using asset manager for folder	23:31
dionak	k	23:31
carogray	to rank files	23:31
carogray	not sure how to do it in folder on page	23:31
carogray	cannot drag	23:32
dionak	to rank, update the numbers and click 'update'	23:34
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+perlDreamer	carogray, you cannot change the "real" order of files in a folder	23:41
+perlDreamer	the folder will only display them in lineage order (rank) or alphabetically	23:41
+perlDreamer	dionak is right on with changing the order using the AssetManager	23:42
--- Day changed Wed May 05 2010
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xdanger	Was there at some point a way to have user assigned richeditors? I have a vague memory of something like that, but was that in an older version that was dropped out or just on some design plan?	00:07
+perlDreamer	xdanger, that was back in WebGUI 5	00:09
+perlDreamer	in 7 and above, it's sitewide	00:09
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@preaction	well, sitewide unless an asset allows for its own	00:11
xdanger	was there a reason for this?	00:13
xdanger	I have a client who wants to have different for adminis and content managers	00:13
carogray	back again	00:19
carogray	I used rank in asset manager	00:19
carogray	when logged in files display in order I ranked them	00:20
carogray	when I log out files displayed only in ascending order	00:20
carogray	have to drain potatoes back in sec	00:20
carogray	back	00:25
+perlDreamer	carogray, sounds like site caching	00:33
+perlDreamer	or, browser caching	00:33
+perlDreamer	maybe both?	00:33
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r39b4450 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Finish wiki sub-category API code, with upgrade sub and tests. - http://bit.ly/cvFYLC	01:05
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r960ff22 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Tests, bugfixes, and adding synopsis to the byKeyword template. - http://bit.ly/9CJuHf	01:50
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CIA-104	webgui: khenn master * rac7ce44 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/i18n/English.pm): Added support for utf-8 characters in urls for English language pack - http://bit.ly/a0EEQl	02:46
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carogray	anyone home	03:24
carogray	?	03:24
@scrottie	carogray, ask the question. someone will answer if and when they can.	03:26
carogray	I would like to know if, in a data form, there is a way not to have the yes no form field default to either answer, even if the answer is required AND if I have a date field if it can display as empty also. At the minute the yes no field defaults to no and the date field is already filled with today's date. I would prefer to have the date completely empty and let people pick yes or no rather than have one answer already in	03:28
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r491c302 / (6 files in 4 dirs): Finish rework of hierarchial keywords/categories. - http://bit.ly/arWK0y	06:44
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r16cca1f / t/Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.t : Update the test for the isTopLevel variables. - http://bit.ly/dBaWzJ	07:11
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd055474 / (167 files in 79 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.4 release - http://bit.ly/btuDKE	07:18
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+perlDreamer	ah, preaction	07:39
+perlDreamer	the excitement of the upgrade keeping you awake, too?	07:39
@preaction	not really, i should be in bed.	07:40
+perlDreamer	I'd like to be there myself	08:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r41575d2 / (4 files in 4 dirs): ready for 7.9.5 development - http://bit.ly/aUQt0f	08:19
+Radix_	hey guys.. question for you.. I've currently got both the modproxy and modperl logging to the same file - and it means I'm getting heaps of 127.0.0.1 references in there. Should I just point modperl to another file or is there a way to turn it off?	08:30
+Radix_	save to /dev/null I guess	08:37
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+perlDreamer	Radix_: I would try the apache docs: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/logs.html	08:42
+perlDreamer	looks like you can setup filters	08:42
+perlDreamer	check out the "Conditional logs" entry	08:42
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+Radix_	Cool - that seems to work a treat :)	08:50
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kaare_	Can I find any documentation about the dispatcher in Webgui?	12:19
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12487 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_MapPoint.pm Asset_WikiMaster.pm Asset_WikiPage.pm): Updating German on translation server	12:31
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12488 /translations/German/German/Asset_Template.pm: Updating German on translation server	12:31
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12489 /translations/German/German/Shop.pm: Updating German on translation server	13:32
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SDuensin	Drinko de Mayo!	17:09
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+perlDreamer	morning, folks	18:35
@preaction	morning perlDreamer!	18:42
* perlDreamer is waiting for the big one to drop		18:42
@preaction	so am i, but i have to wait to use the restroom	18:48
+perlDreamer	having problems with the new house?	18:52
@preaction	no, just need more coffee and to work	18:52
@tavisto	preaction, the new wizard.. I've never seen languages listed as Nederlands and Deutsch in the software that I've used in the past. Is that common these days? I normally see them listed as Dutch and German	18:52
@preaction	tavisto: eh, i didn't touch that part, those are set by the translators	18:53
@tavisto	I'm guessing that those words are the titles in the respective languages, but I've just never seen that before	18:53
@tavisto	the translation server shows Dutch and German for the languages	18:54
+perlDreamer	that's because the translation server works in English only	18:54
@preaction	different choices, i dunno. that was the choice made by the developer of the dropdown thing	18:54
SDuensin	This is kinda crazy and cool: http://narwhaljs.org/	18:55
@tavisto	Well, IMHO, it's strange and not standard	18:56
@preaction	OS X displays language names in their native text / language	18:57
SDuensin	Seems to be becoming one.	18:57
@tavisto	I guess as long as the dutch team thinks it's fine, then it's irrelevant what I think	18:57
SDuensin	Oh. Wrong conversation. :-)	18:57
@tavisto	yep good point, they do	18:58
@tavisto	perlDreamer, Australian is close at 98.9%	18:59
+perlDreamer	we do have them slotted for inclusion, but they need to show they can keep it well translated first	18:59
@tavisto	yep, I'm glad to see Russian and Polish starting to come up too	19:00
+perlDreamer	Arabic is still in freefall	19:00
+perlDreamer	hard to believe it used to be 90%	19:00
@tavisto	yeah ehab must not be very active	19:01
@preaction	there's an arabic guy on the forums right now, maybe he'll put it back up	19:01
@tavisto	preaction, that wG logo in the startup wizard is really pixelated around the edge..looks nasty on my screen	19:09
@preaction	yes, because it's supposed to have a white background, and i'm supposed to have a designer.	19:09
@preaction	transparent gifs/pngs simply do not work	19:10
@tavisto	do you mean that the purple is going away and will be white?	19:18
@preaction	no, i mean that someone's gonna have to look at it with a designer's eye, and i don't have one (or anyone with one)	19:18
@tavisto	or just that the original background on the logo was white. I have enough designer experience where I can still fix things like that	19:18
+perlDreamer	dangerous words, tavisto	19:21
+perlDreamer	run for the hills!	19:21
@tavisto	yeah well back in the day I was chief designer, developer, and consultant	19:22
+perlDreamer	developer?	19:23
+perlDreamer	you code, too?	19:23
@tavisto	unfortunately, I've moved away from all that kinda stuff these days but I still dabble when needed.. And there's much to do with Doug's new toys	19:23
@tavisto	HTML/CSS yeah	19:23
+perlDreamer	hack on, brother	19:23
@tavisto	not real programming languages though.. I leave Perl and C++ and VB to the uber nerds	19:23
@tavisto	<--- poser	19:23
+perlDreamer	aw, hackin' is hackin'	19:24
+perlDreamer	only true hackers deserve Brazilian BBQ	19:24
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+perlDreamer	seems like a year ago I was working on WebGUI 88, which is our port to Elk, or something like that	19:46
@preaction	que?	19:51
+perlDreamer	no, it was definitely WebGUI 8	19:52
+perlDreamer	it's been so long...	19:52
+perlDreamer	and not Elk, but Antelope	20:04
+perlDreamer	Deer	20:04
+perlDreamer	Oqapi?	20:04
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+perlDreamer	hi, patspam	20:15
+patspam	hey perlDreamer	20:15
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+perlDreamer	you missed all the excitement	20:15
+perlDreamer	we hacked the Cart	20:15
+perlDreamer	and rewrote the wiki keywords/sub-categories thing	20:15
+patspam	cool!	20:15
+perlDreamer	and WebGUI will do UTF-8 urls	20:16
@preaction	and redid the setup wizard completely	20:16
+perlDreamer	and added new style templates	20:16
+patspam	far out!	20:16
+patspam	you guys have been busy	20:16
+perlDreamer	how are you doing?	20:16
@preaction	oh, and a new cache driver for 7.x that supports FastMmap and memcached	20:17
+patspam	sleepy :)	20:17
+patspam	I flew in from australia last night	20:17
+patspam	preaction: looking forward to playing with that	20:17
+patspam	I brought my road bike over this time	20:19
+perlDreamer	now you're talking!	20:21
+perlDreamer	okay, I think this finalizes it	20:24
+perlDreamer	Australian people are funnier than Americans	20:24
+perlDreamer	http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2010/05/australian_distracted-driving.html	20:24
@tavisto	how much did that cost patspam!!!	20:26
@tavisto	on the airplane?	20:26
+patspam	free!	20:26
+patspam	counted as one of my bags	20:27
@tavisto	wow, that's amazing.	20:27
@tavisto	you fly Quantas?	20:27
+patspam	yeah	20:27
+patspam	I used their official bike box (cardboard)	20:27
@tavisto	they got decent rates from NYC?	20:27
+patspam	was pretty paranoid they were going to damage my bike, packed it full of padding	20:27
@tavisto	yeah I would definitely think that as well	20:27
@tavisto	and I didnt know they made special bike boxes.. hehe	20:27
+patspam	yeah it was really cheap this time around, about 1k return	20:27
+patspam	bought with about 3 days notice!	20:28
@tavisto	WOW!!!!	20:28
+patspam	I was expected 2-3 times that for such short notice	20:28
@tavisto	You realize that a normal flight from say.. Michigan to NYC last minute... would run about 1k	20:28
+patspam	must've been lucky with the season	20:28
@tavisto	let alone... an international flight	20:28
+patspam	webjet.com ftw!	20:28
@tavisto	dang.	20:29
+patspam	my last flight in feb was about 1600, and that was bought 2 months ahead of time	20:29
+perlDreamer	speaking of which, I need to set one of those up for the September time frame	20:29
+patspam	Portland -> NY -> MSN	20:30
+patspam	=p	20:30
+perlDreamer	how many bottles of scotch did you want?	20:30
+patspam	heh just one!	20:30
+patspam	people will think I'm an alcoholic ;)	20:30
+perlDreamer	at those prices, it's an investment	20:31
@tavisto	yeah best bet on flights is to keep watching from like 3 months out. Best deals are typically in between the 1-2 month time out	20:31
+patspam	interesting.. didn't know that	20:31
@tavisto	I watched George Clooney in "Up in the Air" and was like.... Yeah, this is how I try to live my life.	20:31
@tavisto	well that's the case with Delta anyway. I typically only fly with them cuz I've got status	20:31
@tavisto	although since the merger with NWA they have been absolutely dreadful most of the time...	20:32
@tavisto	NWA was a great airline. I miss it dearly.	20:32
+perlDreamer	preaction: does WebGUI8 still need Memcached::libmemcached ?	20:33
@preaction	no	20:33
+patspam	tavisto: I flew them a few times to Aus, they were cheap and good but I switched to qantas because delta don't fly direct to Melbourne	20:34
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd758bce / sbin/testEnvironment.pl : Remove unneeded module from testEnvironment.pl - http://bit.ly/bs2JEW	20:34
@tavisto	Quantas has cooler planes so I would rather fly with them... Their first class cabins look AMAZING (although I don't have $5-8k burning a hole in my pocket so I wouldn't do it)	20:36
@tavisto	speaking of cool, my old mighty mouse died and I got one of the new mice from apple. The touch sensors are amazing.... if anyone was doubting, definitely pick one up and give it a whirl. You'll love it	20:37
+patspam	does it have more than one button?	20:38
+perlDreamer	patspam: I upgraded to Ubuntu 10.04	20:41
+perlDreamer	it doesn't like the WebGUI package any longer	20:41
+patspam	oh dang	20:41
+patspam	yeah I upgraded this morning too	20:41
+perlDreamer	now, after every package I add or upgrade, I get dpkq errors and warnings	20:41
+patspam	spent 10 minutes playing with empathy's IRC support and then went back to Pidgin	20:41
+patspam	hmm that's weird	20:41
+patspam	webgui borked your system?	20:42
+perlDreamer	that's the odd part	20:42
+perlDreamer	everything works	20:42
+perlDreamer	it just seems to be line noise	20:42
+patspam	what's the error?	20:42
+perlDreamer	I'll make and paste one	20:42
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+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/391158	20:45
+patspam	wrong return code?	20:46
+perlDreamer	probably	20:47
+patspam	or maybe that's legit - looks like it couldn't start apache and mysql wasn't running	20:47
+perlDreamer	they're both currently running	20:47
+perlDreamer	I've been using them this morning	20:48
+patspam	oh right, mysql running, but access denied	20:48
+patspam	was something else bound to port 80?	20:48
+perlDreamer	I don't think so, but I'll ask netstat	20:49
+perlDreamer	nope	20:50
+patspam	weird	20:50
+patspam	does "/etc/init.d/apache2 restart" work now?	20:51
+perlDreamer	nope	20:51
+patspam	that's possibly a good thing - you can debug it	20:52
+patspam	those Cart improvements sound really good	20:53
+patspam	oh nice! I like underscore.js	20:54
+perlDreamer	the problem is my WebGUI8 branch install is messed up	20:55
+patspam	ah	20:55
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Paths	20:56
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+perlDreamer	WebGUI 8 is in good shape. Only 3 failing tests from the Test::Class suite, and all in WebGUI::Asset::Story	21:10
@preaction	awesome	21:11
@preaction	you're in a race to doing the psgi test work ;), if Scott starts before you're ready, you'll be doing it together	21:11
@preaction	though perhaps that will be nice	21:11
+perlDreamer	psgi test work?	21:12
+perlDreamer	you mean for the merge?	21:12
@preaction	WebGUI::PseudoRequest needs to mock Plack::Request not Apache2::Request	21:12
+perlDreamer	ah	21:12
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@preaction	and we may have other fun things to do with the testing stuff once that happens (like no "LIVE TESTS" anymore)	21:13
+perlDreamer	you sure about that? Isn't there a null server request for Plack?	21:13
@preaction	well, there are methods that plack expects that we don't have	21:13
@preaction	"logger" is the one it's currently hung up on	21:13
+perlDreamer	between Scrottie's Perl and Plack awesomeness, and my WebGUI knowledge, we'll get it done	21:19
@preaction	well, plus you can help him navigate the weirdnesses, and hopefully you'll both come out with some ideas to fix them (or at least some troublespots to look at)	21:20
+perlDreamer	what, WebGUI and weirdness? I know not of what you speak.	21:25
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@scrottie	oh, stop...	21:36
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3e168b1 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Trap calls to newById inside getParent. StoryArchive should use cloneFromDb. - http://bit.ly/bMzJZ5	21:51
+perlDreamer	that's it, we're all passing now again	21:51
+perlDreamer	except for that stupid attempt to try and run the support library	21:51
+perlDreamer	preaction, I would hazard a guess at this point, that WebGUI 8 will make content	21:52
+perlDreamer	do we need to take a step back, evaluate what's ahead of us and current status?	21:52
@preaction	no, there's a problem with the admin interface and version tags	21:52
+perlDreamer	well, I'll see about the regular test suite then	21:53
+perlDreamer	and I can add more tests to the Test::Class suite, too	21:53
+perlDreamer	between both suites, we have a fair amount of coverage of the core API	21:53
+perlDreamer	so having it working would be nice	21:54
@preaction	i think it has something to do with changes i made to www_editSave, and will be making more	21:54
@preaction	we're close, yes, very close, but not quite	21:54
* perlDreamer goes running, bbiaw		21:57
+perlDreamer	note, everything is off today	21:57
+perlDreamer	truck is at the shop	21:58
+perlDreamer	dog is at the vet's office	21:58
+perlDreamer	kid's come home early	21:58
+perlDreamer	so I'll be in and out all day	21:58
@preaction	k	21:58
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CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * ra9b4ba1 / (3 files in 2 dirs): added new wg logo - http://bit.ly/cIMekB	22:18
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CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * r38d4631 / (3 files in 2 dirs): startup cleaning - http://bit.ly/diGQaw	23:02
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+perlDreamer	rats, going to have to bodge it	23:36
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--- Day changed Thu May 06 2010
+patspam	perlDreamer: when you're back, I'd like to map out a plan for merging psgi into WebGUI8	00:12
+patspam	plenty of work still to be done so don't want to merge too early, but keen to do it to keep the momentum up	00:15
* patspam goes back to reassembling his bike		00:15
@preaction	it almost looks as if update() isn't working at all	00:16
@preaction	in 8	00:16
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+perlDreamer	preaction, which update?	00:19
@preaction	Asset->update	00:19
@preaction	delegated to WebGUI::Definition::Role::Object	00:19
@preaction	or maybe it's the write that isn't working	00:19
@preaction	like, i can't run the site starter, it sets the style template ID to wrong	00:20
+perlDreamer	I have tests for it	00:20
+perlDreamer	and it verifies some data written and read back	00:20
+perlDreamer	preaction, I'd extend the test suite to duplicate what it's doing to see if we can isolate it	00:21
@preaction	of course	00:21
@preaction	no, i see. the starter is setting it to "", and webgui is accepting it	00:25
@preaction	and this is the old starter, so i should probably merge master again	00:26
@tavisto	PERLDREAMER	00:27
@tavisto	tavis frowns and points at perlDreamer	00:27
@tavisto	you can run but you can't hide pD	00:29
@preaction	if i'm adding tests to Test::WebGUI::Asset, what's $tag in test->getAnchoredAsset?	00:48
@preaction	nm, found it	00:49
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@preaction_	perlDreamer: if I commit a failing test, can you help? (not necessarily now, later is fine too)	00:57
+perlDreamer	if you commit a failing test, it costs 1 tooth	01:31
@preaction_	it looks like the session is getting completely cleared out between each call to ->session	01:32
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@preaction_	the real problem is that addRevision creates a new version tag, even though there is a current working tag	01:34
+perlDreamer	addRevision shouldn't do that	01:34
+perlDreamer	it should use the existing tag	01:34
@preaction_	right, but the session->stow doesn't have the existing tag, and neither does session->scratch	01:35
@preaction_	and the damned session object is too huge to debug.	01:36
@preaction_	ah. failing versiontag tests	01:37
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@preaction_	do we have to always say "our $CONFIG_FILE" when we want a var declared with our now?	01:44
@preaction_	ah. now i see: the tag was never setWorking	01:47
@preaction_	duh.	01:47
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+perlDreamer	preaction: why does the calendar stores view types and start dates in the scratch?	01:59
@preaction_	probably in case the user looks at an event or adds an event so they go back to the right place	02:00
+perlDreamer	that's a good reason	02:00
@preaction_	but perhaps it should store such in a specific way to avoid the problem susan is having?	02:03
@preaction_	and now, for some reason, version tags are working again, though i have not changed any code.	02:04
@preaction_	ah. spoke too soon. it worked for one page view, but it must still be pending or something.	02:04
+perlDreamer	preaction_: using the calendar ical system, you can essentially do the same thing as the shortcut, without the interaction	02:06
@preaction_	oh jesus... if it is the caching i am going to be very annoyed	02:22
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CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * rda8ebb9 / www/extras/shop/cart.js : no forms[0], we will use a real id - http://bit.ly/akATn0	02:36
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r113c44a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm): Give the cart an id for the JS to work with. - http://bit.ly/afBzmQ	02:51
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reb9d32f / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm : Log the correct transaction data on a $0 checkout. - http://bit.ly/dj7wNb	03:28
+perlDreamer	dinner time for old hackers	03:29
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf04cf29 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm): Fix display of the shop credit deduction when there's a recurring item in the cart. Fixes bug #11557 - http://bit.ly/98SJcB	04:30
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r6926217 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm): Fix display of the shop credit deduction when there's a recurring item in the cart. Fixes bug #11557 - http://bit.ly/d7Wybv	04:30
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r17841c8 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Credit.pm lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Shop.pm): Better messaging and error handling in the Shop/Credit screen. Cannot give credit to Visitor. - http://bit.ly/cK1r0Y	04:49
+perlDreamer	later,a ll	04:50
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:43
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+perlDreamer	morning, good WebGUI folks	17:57
+bartjol	hi	17:59
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Haarg	the more i think about WebGUI::Session the more i hate it	19:49
Haarg	it's like three different objects mushed together into one	19:50
Haarg	there is the site (config, database, cache), the user session (var, stash) and the request (asset, user, request, etc)	19:53
Haarg	it should really be separated out into separate classes	19:53
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Haarg	preaction, do you see any reason to let i18n modules filter URLs given that we are allowing utf8 now?	20:10
@preaction	that's what i was telling Frank yesterday: i18n shouldn't give one rat's ass what the URL is	20:12
Haarg	ok	20:12
Haarg	i'll change that then	20:13
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+perlDreamer	preaction: did you test any of the new site styles to make sure they work with modern WebGUI?	20:58
@preaction	modern?	20:58
@preaction	they worked on the default content, otherwise no	20:58
+perlDreamer	modern like all the templating and style sheet work from TWG	20:59
@preaction	nope	20:59
@preaction	they weren't supposed to stay there for long, TWG was supposed to replace them with something else	20:59
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+perlDreamer	patspam, got the urge to talk about merge?	21:53
SDuensin	Whew. The first time I read that, I saw "marriage".	21:55
+perlDreamer	You need professional help, SDuensin	21:56
SDuensin	Yea, but that's expensive!	21:56
@preaction	so's marriage	21:57
SDuensin	Well, I already did that.	21:58
+perlDreamer	marriage is much more expensive	22:00
SDuensin	Actually costs less than my technology habit. :-)	22:01
+perlDreamer	yay!	22:01
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc1cc94f / t/tests/My/Test/Class.pm : Do not run the test suite on the support class. - http://bit.ly/cPgici	22:01
+perlDreamer	All Test::Class tests pass	22:02
Haarg	perlDreamer, what merge are you referring to?	22:02
+perlDreamer	patspam wanted to talk about the upcoming psgi merge	22:02
Haarg	ah	22:02
ckotil	The workflow activity NotifyAdminsWithOpenVersionTags is confusing. the name suggest an email is sent to the admins notifying about an old version tag (default 3 days old), but in the description it reads 'This sends out notifications to all users that have an uncommitted tag. It only does this if the version tags are empty...' i can tell from reading the code that it does in fact send a notice to admins.	22:13
ckotil	id like to send out notices directly to the user with the uncommitted tag	22:13
ckotil	looks like ill need to modify the existing activity and make a new one.	22:14
ckotil	a lot of users new to webgui will edit an asset, and forget to commit, even tho i have big annoying button at the top of the page that says DONT FORGET TO COMMIT	22:14
+perlDreamer	eh, just write a workflow that begins to charge their credit card	22:16
SDuensin	Ooo! I want that one!	22:16
ckotil	hehe	22:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r28f4605 / t/Session/Style.t : Update test due to the removal of the headBlock. - http://bit.ly/ayqrki	22:19
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd7ee5f0 / t/Session/Style.t : Update test due to the removal of the headBlock. -	22:20
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r65f3904 / t/Session/Style.t : Update test due to the removal of the headBlock.	22:20
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r396f0cd / t/Session/Style.t : More headBlock => extraHeadTags cleanup - http://bit.ly/9Nr8RS	22:21
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re71a6be / t/Session/Style.t : More headBlock => extraHeadTags cleanup - http://bit.ly/dopcAi	22:21
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd46dcaa / t/Session/Style.t : More headBlock => extraHeadTags cleanup - http://bit.ly/abEBob	22:22
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb7b91a3 / t/Session/Url.t : Update test for property manipulation. - http://bit.ly/boPgMw	22:24
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+perlDreamer	preaction, how does the new caching system work with compound keys?	22:32
@preaction	the compound key must be calculated beforehand	22:33
+perlDreamer	was that done as part of the cache switch?	22:33
@preaction	yes	22:33
+perlDreamer	a test or two may have been missed	22:34
@preaction	quite possibly	22:34
+perlDreamer	All session tests are now passing	22:35
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5bf7f42 / t/Session/Var.t : Update the test for the new caching scheme. - http://bit.ly/an0bOi	22:35
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+perlDreamer	lunch time	22:58
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--- Day changed Fri May 07 2010
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@preaction	if we move to nginx, should we also start doing ESI? it would mean writing or updating an ESI plugin for nginx, but it would make many http accelerators very very happy	00:40
SDuensin_	WTF is ESI?	00:42
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@preaction	Edge-Side Includes. it lets a proxy cache the entire page with <esi:*> directives, then just request the esi stuff as dynamic	00:42
@preaction	so like if your site had only a "Hello <user>", it would only fetch THAT for each page load	00:42
@preaction	or it would fetch only the navs	00:43
@preaction	basically, the dynamic part that may change with different users or different times viewing the same page, but the rest is just cached	00:43
@preaction	akamai uses it, which would mean webgui sites could run on akamai's CDN	00:44
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2fe34a2 / t/ProfileField.t : more ProfileField tests -	00:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1aeb75b / (4 files in 3 dirs): Fix POD whitespace problems. -	00:52
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * r40d11e8 / (5 files in 5 dirs): more sorting options for SyndicatedContent - http://bit.ly/c1Og83	01:05
+perlDreamer	He even wrote tests!	01:07
@frodwith	how else would I know if it works?	01:18
@frodwith	:-p	01:18
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12490 /translations/German/German/ (PayDriver_PayPalStd.pm Asset_WikiMaster.pm): Updating German on translation server	01:22
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12491 /translations/German/German/PayDriver_PayPalStd.pm: Updating German on translation server	01:22
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1c4ea8e / t/ProfileField.t : more ProfileField tests - http://bit.ly/a9oIaP	01:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7032e86 / (lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm t/SQL.t t/User.t): Change cache strategy for User.t. Fix setRow in SQL.pm to accept overrides in row identifiers. - http://bit.ly/b5daGj	01:51
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+patspam	perlDreamer: ping	03:18
+patspam	got users reporting that wg site email footer not included in emails	03:20
+patspam	my guess it's broken email clients	03:20
+patspam	multipart email: html contents + text/plain footer	03:20
+patspam	gmail and thunderbird show it fine	03:20
+patspam	time to boot up a windows vm and try outlook	03:21
+patspam	yes indeed	03:25
+patspam	outlook doesn't show the footer, adds it as a .txt attachment instead	03:26
+patspam	example at: https://gist.github.com/c25b1c0b5d2e7cc97ccf	03:39
+patspam	anyone think this is a bug? or reasonable behaviour?	03:39
@preaction	perhaps we should also send "content-disposition: inline"?	03:40
+patspam	that sounds promising	03:41
+patspam	looks like outlook might ignore that though: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/814111	03:42
+perlDreamer	it's definitely a bug	03:44
+perlDreamer	the user should install thunderbird immediately	03:44
+patspam	heh	03:44
+perlDreamer	and here I thought you wanted to talk about something important	03:44
+perlDreamer	like the psgi merge	03:44
+patspam	oh yeah!	03:44
+patspam	been too busy to think about that for the past 24hrs	03:45
+perlDreamer	All of Session/*.t are passing	03:45
+patspam	in 8?	03:45
+perlDreamer	yes	03:45
+patspam	ok, let's set the bar for merging psgi	03:45
+patspam	all the same tests passing	03:45
+patspam	plus..?	03:45
+perlDreamer	okay	03:45
+patspam	I started adding some psgi specific tests	03:46
+perlDreamer	that's good	03:46
+patspam	most apache request/response stuff isn't tested	03:46
+perlDreamer	can we say minimum 75% test coverage of the new psgi code?	03:46
+patspam	ok	03:46
+patspam	there isn't a whole lot of new code	03:46
+perlDreamer	well, in that case	03:46
+perlDreamer	lets say minimum 90% coverage of new code	03:47
+perlDreamer	:D	03:47
+patspam	the stuff that really needs tests is all the apache req/response stuff that needs to be ported to Plack req/response methods	03:47
+patspam	there's likely to be lots of easily fixable bugs in there	03:47
+patspam	but I haven't got enough time to do all that on my own	03:47
+perlDreamer	I think I can help with that	03:48
+patspam	awesome	03:48
+perlDreamer	unless there's another emergency like last week	03:48
+perlDreamer	and the week before	03:48
+patspam	I hear ya	03:48
+patspam	the question is, do we require all that stuff to be tested before we merge?	03:48
+perlDreamer	definitely	03:48
+perlDreamer	that way we can pick up merge problems with the tests	03:48
+patspam	there won't be merge problems, since psgi is tracking 8	03:49
+patspam	e.g. it should be a fast-foward merge	03:50
+perlDreamer	okay	03:50
+perlDreamer	so what's the status of the psgi branch?	03:50
+patspam	heh so to rephrase the above question, should wg8 devs be shielded from req/response bugs?	03:51
+perlDreamer	there are only 4 wg8 devs	03:51
+patspam	exactly	03:51
+patspam	status.. untouched for past 10 days	03:51
+patspam	by me at least	03:51
@preaction	once it's merged, we're all responsible	03:51
+patspam	exactly =p	03:52
+perlDreamer	I think it would still be best to have the tests in place before we merge	03:52
+perlDreamer	maybe not for full coverage	03:52
+patspam	yeah I think you're probably right	03:52
+perlDreamer	but to cover base functionality	03:52
+patspam	but if you can help me with the new tests that'd be ace	03:52
+patspam	I don't want momentum to drop off with it so close to being ready	03:52
+perlDreamer	won't we also need to change WebGUI::PseudoRequest into something else?	03:52
+patspam	it will disappear	03:53
+patspam	Plack::Test	03:53
+perlDreamer	that's still a lot of test rework	03:53
+patspam	maybe we can refactor WebGUI::PseudoRequest as a first step	03:54
+perlDreamer	Plack::Test is still request/response based	03:54
+perlDreamer	none of the PseudoRequest code works like that	03:54
+perlDreamer	maybe it's better that it works that way	03:55
+perlDreamer	but none of the code that is tested will return response objects	03:55
+perlDreamer	there ought to be some good examples in Session/Url.t	03:57
+patspam	I think it will fall out nicely	03:57
+patspam	Url.t creates a PseudoRequest and stores it in $session->{_request}	03:58
+perlDreamer	which we don't really need anymore	03:58
+patspam	instead, we can create a real WebGUI::Session::Request	03:58
+perlDreamer	the manual work isn't needed anymore because it's done for us by WebGUI::Test	03:59
+perlDreamer	okay, so we create a real WebGUI::Session::Request	03:59
+perlDreamer	but how does it get a request object that we can manipulate?	03:59
+patspam	WebGUI::Session::Request isa Plack::Request	03:59
+patspam	that's the response object	03:59
+patspam	er, request	04:00
+patspam	instead of being some funky xs apache thing it's a pure perl object	04:00
+patspam	created from a simple $env hash	04:00
+perlDreamer	that will be nice	04:00
+perlDreamer	and the resultant object is rw?	04:00
+patspam	sure	04:00
+patspam	but most likely you wouldn't modify the request object	04:01
+patspam	because so easy to create a new one on demand	04:01
+patspam	Plack::Request makes its accessors read-only	04:01
+perlDreamer	so we should have some sugar in WebGUI::Test for making new request objects in the session	04:02
+patspam	yeah something like that	04:02
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Test->reRequest($session, %newHash);	04:02
+patspam	similar to the way Plack::Test lets you do it with HTTP::Request/Response objects	04:02
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+patspam	Plack::Test is pretty cool in that by setting environment variables you can get it to run the requests through an actual plack server of your choice	04:04
+perlDreamer	I need to go run some errands, but I'll keep thinking about this	04:06
+patspam	cool, ttyl	04:06
+Radix_	So.. apt-get in ubuntu server.. or wre - hard choice	04:51
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+Radix_	apt-get webgui on lucid:	05:07
+Radix_	webgui: Depends: libpoe-component-client-http-perl (>= 0.88) but it is not installable	05:07
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+Radix_	debian sid works fine though	05:30
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@preaction	Radix_: i think you need to send a message to the masters of the universe (motu@ubuntu.org iirc)	05:33
+Radix_	looks like the libpoe component has either been removed or no longer available or something.. that's the only dependency missing	05:34
+Radix_	okey.. need some advice.. what's the best way to migrate a 7.0.8 version of webgui to 7.8.18	05:37
+Radix_	I have an existing site with 6738 assets, 287 templates, 15551 users, and 1993 groups	05:38
@preaction	the normal way: stop at the highest 7.0, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4, 7.5, 7.6, 7.7, and then 7.8 versions	05:38
@preaction	and be prepared for template changes	05:38
+perlDreamer	with all the stop versions in the middle	05:39
+perlDreamer	I started a wiki page to keep track of stop version, but it only goes back to 7.5	05:39
+Radix_	heh	05:39
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/wiki/stop-versions	05:40
+Radix_	stop versions are?	05:40
@preaction	versions you have to stop at	05:40
+Radix_	oh.. page explains	05:40
+perlDreamer	:)	05:40
+perlDreamer	Radix_: if you learn about any other ones, could you keep good notes and maybe update the wiki page?	05:40
+Radix_	haha.. yeah sure	05:40
+Radix_	I'm going omg.. do I really want to do this atm	05:41
+Radix_	will latest WRE run all of the versions from 7.1-7.8?	05:42
+perlDreamer	no	05:42
+perlDreamer	there are JSON problems in 7.4.3	05:42
+Radix_	so I'll need to step up versions of wre too then	05:43
+perlDreamer	not necessarily, just perl modules	05:44
+Radix_	and how would I know what to use and what not?	05:44
+Radix_	why is the upgrade path for webgui so insanely complicated still?	05:44
@preaction	... because we have one	05:45
+perlDreamer	well, to be fair, since 7.5 there is only one "extra" stop version	05:45
+perlDreamer	and that's 7.7.22	05:45
@preaction	if you were on any other system, you'd be dumping and remerging sites by now	05:45
+perlDreamer	otherwise, there's just one stop point per minor version	05:45
+perlDreamer	oy, something in 8 is badly broken	05:50
+perlDreamer	it's wiping out groupNames	05:50
@preaction	fun	05:53
@preaction	maybe that's why version tag names are missing too	05:54
+perlDreamer	I didn't know that those parts of WebGUI were touched in 8	05:54
+perlDreamer	but I'm finding lots of little things	05:54
+perlDreamer	like the bug in setRow	05:54
+perlDreamer	If we had time, I'd love to shut down WebGUI 8 for 2 days, and fix every broken bug and test	05:54
+perlDreamer	then we could start running test regressions	05:55
@preaction	well, i'm stalled until i can fix the problems with version tags and committing	05:55
+perlDreamer	they seem to work in WebGUI8	05:58
+perlDreamer	can you revert to find out what's changed in your branch?	05:58
@preaction	no, wayyyyy too far ahead. lot of work. i think i know what happened (i changed getEditForm and processPropertiesFromFormPost)	06:01
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re830e92 / t/User.t : Update test for new cache system. - http://bit.ly/avH1oy	06:08
+perlDreamer	this could supersede that kind of work	06:17
+perlDreamer	Users and Groups are both broken	06:18
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+perlDreamer	preaction: could you please run the User.t test and tell me if it fails for you?	06:37
+perlDreamer	preaction, I think I know why you're having problems	06:43
+perlDreamer	if I'm right, it should be fixed in about 15 minutes	06:43
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rad88c37 / lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm : Revert back to the old setRow that handles sparse updates, like the one used by Group. - http://bit.ly/cRMMP5	06:49
+perlDreamer	I'm going to pack it in for tonight	06:56
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rae43a10 / t/User.t : Update this test for the new caching system. - http://bit.ly/9BPyMi	06:59
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CIA-104	webgui: martin master * rcc7b3fe / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.9.4-7.9.5.pl : Fix a bug in upgrade script where session was not passed. - http://bit.ly/d31dkk	14:03
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ckotil	Good Morning	16:42
ckotil	im looking at my show running workflows page, and ive got a bunch of suspended workflows named (no title). Id like to just delete them, but I cant find them in the database anywhere. any idea where I should look?	16:43
SDuensin	FrIdAy!	16:46
+MrHairgrease	ckotil	16:51
+MrHairgrease	they should be in the WorkflowActivityINstance table	16:51
+MrHairgrease	or somthing like that	16:52
ckotil	ive scoured those tables.	16:54
ckotil	even dumped the db and grepped for the instanceId i see in the show running workflows page.	16:54
+MrHairgrease	weird	16:54
+MrHairgrease	maybe spectre caches some stuff and has gotten out of sync somehow?	16:54
ckotil	yeah, so i dont understand how these siuspended workflows are even sticking around. unless spectre has a hold on them	16:55
+MrHairgrease	try crtl-f5 on the show running workflows page	16:55
+MrHairgrease	if that doen't help see if restarting spectre does	16:55
ckotil	k	16:55
ckotil	the restart did it	16:57
+MrHairgrease	ok	16:58
+MrHairgrease	dunnno what caused this though	16:58
+MrHairgrease	did you recently upgrade?	16:58
ckotil	i added a new activity im working on to the hourly workflow so i can run it manually via the scheduler. well i had a bug in the activity and it caused the workflow to error	16:58
+MrHairgrease	ah	16:58
ckotil	when i ran another instance of the hourly workflow it got out of sync	16:58
+MrHairgrease	that's prolly what caused the problem	16:59
ckotil	then i have to manually run each activity. when its done it shows up as no title	16:59
ckotil	when the workflow has finished all the activities that is	16:59
ckotil	there's probably a better way to develop and debug a workflow activity, but i dunno what it is :)	16:59
+MrHairgrease	yeah, let other people do ot for you =)	17:00
ckotil	i can do small things.	17:00
ckotil	the activity im working on will email users about uncommitted version tags	17:01
ckotil	hopefully i can contribute it	17:01
+MrHairgrease	you do take into account that activities can only run for about a minute at a time right?	17:02
ckotil	i wasnt aware of that.	17:03
+MrHairgrease	just grep for getTTL in WebGUI/Workflow?activity	17:04
+MrHairgrease	for examples	17:04
ckotil	but this activity just queries for all uncommitted tags, then loops through them to get the owner, tagId, and email. then sends an email with a link. shouldnt take that long. even if there are 20 uncommitted tags	17:04
+MrHairgrease	true	17:04
+MrHairgrease	espescially if you just queue the emails instead of sending them	17:05
+MrHairgrease	are you returning COMPLETE?	17:05
ckotil	ah, queuing, good idea.	17:05
ckotil	ok, i see the ttl, i can add that to my activity	17:05
+MrHairgrease	sure	17:05
ckotil	yes.	17:05
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carogray	forms question:Is it possible for a questions with a required answer of either yes or no, not to have a default answer?	18:05
carogray	I want to ask people if it is safe to get back to them? I want to make sure that they answer question - do not submit the form without answering. At the same time I do not want to have a pre-filled answer already	18:06
carogray	We could miss out on helping some people if the answer is no, and if the default answer is yes, we could be endangering others.	18:07
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+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease!	18:14
+perlDreamer	Greasings, euro-hacker	18:14
+MrHairgrease	May the Grease be with you!	18:14
+perlDreamer	is that offer for Shop/Cart help still good?	18:15
+perlDreamer	I don't have an easy way to verify the changes I made to the Ogone plugin, in 7.9.4	18:15
+perlDreamer	I don't suppose you could do some kind of test checkout with it, to make sure it still all works correctly?	18:16
+MrHairgrease	Today I won't have time for that anymore. But I can check next wednesday	18:17
+MrHairgrease	is that ok?	18:18
+MrHairgrease	I don't have a test account handy, so I'll have to request one	18:18
+perlDreamer	that's fine. You're way more familiar with it than I am.	18:18
+MrHairgrease	Where did you get that idea =)	18:19
+perlDreamer	It's an acknowledgement of your superior sub-micron and programming skillz	18:19
+perlDreamer	Have you read the release notes and gotchas for 7.9.4?	18:20
+perlDreamer	The cart is now a 2 screen process	18:20
+perlDreamer	in screen 1, you enter in all billing and (optionally) shipping info	18:20
+perlDreamer	you also select the shipping method, and the billing gateway.	18:21
+perlDreamer	then you hit the checkout button	18:21
+perlDreamer	in screen 2, you get a summary of all charges, and a checkout button	18:21
+MrHairgrease	ok	18:21
+MrHairgrease	I've looked into it a bit	18:21
+MrHairgrease	but I'll go through it more thouroughly next wednesday	18:22
+MrHairgrease	anyway	18:23
+MrHairgrease	gotta go	18:23
+MrHairgrease	bye	18:23
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym		19:14
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@preaction	we need to clean up the WebGUI github	22:40
@preaction	DataTable needs gone. crypt needs moved to a personal fork. fb needs gone. flux needs moved to personal fork. gh-pages i don't even know what it is. improved-asset-state needs moved to a personal fork or merged into mainline. plebgui needs moved to personal fork. psgi personal fork. template_usage dunno what is. thingy_defaultView_maxEntries seriously? usereditgroup what?	22:45
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+perlDreamer	template_usage is useful	23:25
+perlDreamer	it lets you diff changes in templates across different WebGUI versions	23:25
@preaction	so it should be merged then?	23:26
@preaction	really, if we can get wgdev to be WebGUI::Command, then we can enhance the wgpkg format to accept the wgdev file format	23:26
+perlDreamer	no, not merged	23:28
+perlDreamer	just keep track of it	23:28
+perlDreamer	in fact, it's a little out of date	23:28
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I need a brief overview of the WebGUI::Paths change	23:39
+perlDreamer	Session->open doesn't need a root dir anymore	23:39
+perlDreamer	All methods in WebGUI::Paths are class methods	23:39
+perlDreamer	anything else?	23:39
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd0b17ac / lib/WebGUI/Asset/EMSSubmission.pm : Update EMSSubmission to Moose. - http://bit.ly/chok8c	23:43
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5992a1d / sbin/changeIobStatus.pl : Update changeIobStatus for WebGUI::Paths - http://bit.ly/djhH8D	23:43
+perlDreamer	first complete test suite run on WebGUI 8 is running	23:48
+perlDreamer	it has at least half a chance of finishing...	23:48
--- Day changed Sat May 08 2010
+perlDreamer	for anyone who's curious: http://gist.github.com/394002	00:14
+perlDreamer	there's still a lot of work to be done	00:14
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r22f9a20 / t/i18n/help.t : Update this test for new code in Operation/Help - http://bit.ly/aCpN4O	01:03
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rea17973 / (t/Cache.t t/Cache/Database.t t/Cache/FileCache.t): There aren't any cache modules any longer. - http://bit.ly/bAPMpn	01:03
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra29c6ae / t/mandatory_template_vars.t : Update mandatory_template_vars test for new Asset code. -	01:09
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r45e1c01 / t/Help/compiled.t : Update Help/compiled for new operational code. - http://bit.ly/cgoEUp	01:12
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc8075d9 / lib/WebGUI/Form/Email.pm : Add a missing module use line. - http://bit.ly/aD67Gc	01:21
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SDuensin	Evening!	03:11
@preaction	perlbot .ar	03:15
perlbot	preaction: .ar is Argentina	03:15
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+perlDreamer	Whatssup, SDuensin?	03:40
SDuensin	Reading about cool network stuff and dealing with an overtired 1 year old.	03:41
SDuensin	http://www.ntop.org/n2n/	03:41
+perlDreamer	http://www.skorks.com/2010/05/what-every-developer-should-know-about-urls/?	03:45
SDuensin	Nice. Not as cool as my URL though. :-)	03:48
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9162bd6 / t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm : Return the correct path for the WebGUI lib directory in WebGUI::Test. Should probably just use WebGUI::Path instead. - http://bit.ly/bvmFMs	03:53
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6154044 / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Class.pm : when using goto on objects, must restore $self into @_... - http://bit.ly/aod6lp	03:56
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r855b59f / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Asset.pm : Similar changes as to Definition::Meta::Class in --::Asset - http://bit.ly/aVQGbw	03:58
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2fad20d / lib/WebGUI/FilePump/Bundle.pm : Exception handling when trying to get assets for their content. - http://bit.ly/cgGCMf	04:02
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r361299e / t/Storage.t : Use the right location for the WebGUI.pm fake file in Storage testing. - http://bit.ly/cGAvdZ	04:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3d34cf3 / t/VersionTag.t : Fix typos in VersionTag.t - http://bit.ly/9KV9fi	04:18
+perlDreamer	preaction: all VersionTag.t tests are passing	04:18
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1450d13 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix POD problems -	04:28
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CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r30ed305 / (lib/WebGUI/Session/Url.pm lib/WebGUI/i18n/English.pm): put all url validation in WebGUI::Session::Url instead of i18n - http://bit.ly/cQfqbc	20:24
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r04ee8f0 / t/Group.t : Fix the Group tests. - http://bit.ly/bLXyfJ	23:51
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--- Day changed Mon May 10 2010
+perlDreamer	Haarg: seeing Moosey weirdness: http://gist.github.com/395400	00:00
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0bef2b2 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Change the core to use newById instead of new. - http://bit.ly/a3DlC8	00:31
+perlDreamer	nm, that error is caused by having a method called new	00:33
+perlDreamer	like the one installed WebGUI::Test when we mock asset instanciators	00:37
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8272c2b / t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm : Do not intstall a wrapper around new in Asset.pm - http://bit.ly/9Z84fH	00:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc471cd1 / t/Shop/AddressBook.t : Fix a test I broke. - http://bit.ly/aiUInJ	00:59
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r10d96d3 / t/Help/related.t : Update help for new operational code. - http://bit.ly/cVlUFJ	01:06
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2c80c50 / lib/WebGUI/Macro/FileUrl.pm : Test assets for valid methods before calling them. - http://bit.ly/bm0MZV	01:06
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rab64760 / lib/WebGUI/Group.pm : Add missing module use line to Group.pm - http://bit.ly/a1QURL	01:08
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4ecc8dc / lib/WebGUI/AssetLineage.pm : AssetLineage should throw exceptions. - http://bit.ly/dkzZyq	01:28
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra2feddc / lib/WebGUI/Macro/PickLanguage.pm : Exception handling. - http://bit.ly/aUXtLu	01:35
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r97d5caa / lib/WebGUI/Macro/Thumbnail.pm : Exception handling for Thumbnail macro. - http://bit.ly/attTrb	01:37
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8bbf758 / t/Shop/ShipDriver/FlatRate.t : Update FlatRate test. - http://bit.ly/9gsazd	02:15
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r69a1b4e / t/Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutLowStock.t : Update test for new asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/dbPbzP	03:25
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd57ee62 / t/Workflow/Activity/RemoveOldCarts.t : Fixed this test. - http://bit.ly/9tjuXZ	03:32
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r057260f / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm : fix a ->get conversion typo. - http://bit.ly/9OZPLg	04:04
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5be85b9 / t/Asset/Wobject/Survey.t : Cache update for a test - http://bit.ly/d2DQA6	04:10
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r96108ff / t/Group.t : Remove an old cache line. - http://bit.ly/bjNAxU	04:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r95fe1e6 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Module use, and cache updates. - http://bit.ly/d0UmEx	04:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r923e03f / (lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): Add a method for getViewCacheKey. Update number of tests. - http://bit.ly/cw8e7N	05:03
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4c3b615 / t/Asset/AssetLineage.t : Update this test for exception handling. - http://bit.ly/bJja5q	05:08
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8be3592 / lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm : Drop session from get data generated by exportAssetData - http://bit.ly/cyNy3M	05:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra203ab4 / t/Asset/AssetPackage.t : Use a static time to remove 2 second sleep. Update test for new asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/ciILPu	05:17
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * recf1c52 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/EventManagementSystem.pm : Updates for Moose. - http://bit.ly/clKW83	07:04
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r50b2b11 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Updated to Moose, and test updates. - http://bit.ly/b71vsi	07:04
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+perlDreamer	Haarg: late night ping	07:38
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7ba3051 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Snippet.pm t/Asset/Snippet.t): Set a trigger for the snippet. Update tests for snippet packing. - http://bit.ly/boO5k3	07:45
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I've decided for all future bugs, I'm going to come into IRC	07:45
+perlDreamer	and try and ask you a question	07:45
+perlDreamer	you just ignore me for about an hour	07:45
+perlDreamer	and I'll have it figured out by then	07:45
+perlDreamer	if not, then I'll ask again, and then you can answer it	07:45
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc2cbec2 / t/VersionTag.t : Attempt to make this test more robust. - http://bit.ly/bQlhPv	08:32
+perlDreamer	There are only about 74 failing tests in WebGUI8	08:34
+perlDreamer	some of them are collateral damage	08:34
+perlDreamer	where the tests are sensitive and need a sterile environment to run as planned	08:35
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12492 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (4 files): Updating Dutch on translation server	14:21
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12493 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_WikiMaster.pm: Updating Dutch on translation server	15:56
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SDuensin	Somebody wake me when it's over.	16:34
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+bartjol	SDuensin: what must be over?	16:42
SDuensin	Work!	16:42
+bartjol	oh, I'll be sleeping by then I guess	16:42
SDuensin	:-P	16:42
+bartjol	just 1.7 hours left for today	16:43
SDuensin	I just got here.	16:43
SDuensin	So, like 7.1 for me. :-)	16:43
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12494 /translations/German/German/ (PayDriver_Cash.pm PayDriver.pm): Updating German on translation server	17:41
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+perlDreamer	good morning, WebGUI folks	18:12
Haarg	morning perlDreamer	18:12
@preaction	morning!	18:12
@frodwith	mornin'	18:12
+perlDreamer	we're down to only 74 failing test files in WebGUI 8	18:12
+bartjol	afternoon	18:14
+bartjol	good	18:15
+bartjol	how much is that in percentage?	18:15
+bartjol	just interested	18:15
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12495 /translations/German/German/ (PayDriver_ExpressCheckout.pm PayDriver_Ogone.pm): Updating German on translation server	18:15
+perlDreamer	there are 324 files, so about 20%	18:16
+perlDreamer	a lot of those are simple cases of updating tests, or WebGUI packages	18:17
+perlDreamer	some of them are serious bugs caused by WebGUI 8	18:17
+bartjol	all in all, it sounds quite reasonable	18:17
+bartjol	good job fellows!	18:17
+bartjol	back to my failing filepump thingy, let's read the bug report	18:18
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r19e497f / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix some copy/paste errors in the Cash i18n. Fixes bug #11561 - http://bit.ly/bCx6UO	18:20
+perlDreamer	failing filepump?	18:20
+bartjol	http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/error-could-not-load-webguicontentfilepump	18:23
+bartjol	it was a forum post	18:23
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * ra7a522c / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix copy paste errors in the Cash i18n. Fixes bug #11561. - http://bit.ly/aWhbMo	18:24
+bartjol	not sure whether it appeared earlier (did an upgrade from 7.7.22 to 7.9.4)	18:25
+bartjol	but I see I do miss perl modules	18:27
+bartjol	adding, then, I'll let you know the result	18:28
+perlDreamer	I'm fixing core bugs all day	18:32
+perlDreamer	so if you find something, let me know	18:32
+perlDreamer	better yet, post a patch ;)	18:32
+bartjol	well, if it is just due to not reading gotcha's, I'll just have to tell him that	18:33
+bartjol	it might be that the gotcha's miss some modules, because I saw them in testenvironment, but not encountered them in the gotcha	18:34
+perlDreamer	that could definitely be a problem	18:35
+perlDreamer	we've had too much of that recenty	18:35
+perlDreamer	recently	18:35
+bartjol	mmm, CHI	18:35
+bartjol	seems to be a problem, lot of dpendancies too	18:36
+perlDreamer	CHI is a massive problem	18:36
+perlDreamer	HUGE	18:36
+perlDreamer	it requires Moose	18:36
+bartjol	ah	18:36
@preaction	so does Config::JSON	18:36
+perlDreamer	Config::JSON's Moose version is only a requirement for WebGUI 8	18:36
+perlDreamer	not 7	18:36
+bartjol	I do have moose	18:37
+perlDreamer	but if you do a new install, you get it anyway	18:37
@preaction	if you install the latest Config::JSON, you install moose	18:37
+bartjol	0.93	18:37
+bartjol	well, I installed 3 of the 4 missing modules, I'll have a look whether that specific error is gone now	18:38
+bartjol	mmm, after a restart I don't get it anymore	18:39
@preaction	i think the real problem is preloading modules that never get used, and thus preloading all their dependencies	18:40
+bartjol	I don't see it in my other install, the difference was Javascript::Packer an DateTime::Format::HTTP	18:43
+bartjol	I thought those were included in koen's beta wre, apparently not	18:46
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+bartjol	I have reported a bug about the missing in the gotcha	18:54
+perlDreamer	I shall fix it!	18:56
+perlDreamer	uh, after I try to eat something	18:56
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+bartjol	hey kathy	18:57
dreamersgirl	Hi!	18:57
dreamersgirl	How are ya?	18:58
+bartjol	well, a bit hungry actually	18:59
+bartjol	but I had some laugs when Koen fell in the water last friday	18:59
+bartjol	too bad it was a bit coldish to do it with all his clothes on	18:59
dreamersgirl	how'd that happen?	19:00
dreamersgirl	and where?	19:00
+bartjol	he slipped on a boat during a sailing race	19:00
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+bartjol	in Friesland	19:00
dreamersgirl	Oh, bummer.	19:00
Haarg	morning patspam	19:00
dreamersgirl	Did you get any pictures, though?	19:00
+bartjol	it was around here: http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&ie=UTF8&ll=52.924946,5.789108&spn=0.086205,0.239468&z=13	19:01
+bartjol	no pics	19:03
+patspam	hola!	19:04
+patspam	haarg: moved house again on the weekend	19:05
+patspam	spent the last 2 days cleaning	19:05
dreamersgirl	cleaning = not fun	19:05
+patspam	but on the upside- I now have decent coffee shops within walking distance	19:05
dreamersgirl	with free wifi?	19:05
+patspam	dreamersgirl - yeah my back is sore now!	19:05
+patspam	I think so.. although I prefer to escape in the middle of the day with a book and stay offline	19:06
+patspam	dreamersgirl = kathy?>	19:06
dreamersgirl	i've become rather fond of coffeeshops with wifi	19:06
dreamersgirl	:) yes	19:07
+bartjol	yes	19:07
+patspam	hi!	19:07
dreamersgirl	Hi!	19:07
+patspam	coming to madison this year?	19:07
dreamersgirl	There's a great one near our house called Insomnia.	19:07
+patspam	very appropriate ;)	19:07
dreamersgirl	Have to see. That's finals week for me, but I don't think I have any finals!	19:07
+patspam	ah	19:07
dreamersgirl	It also depends on whether or not we have someone to watch kids.	19:07
+patspam	Helen is planning on coming on the last day and staying for the weekend	19:08
dreamersgirl	You still thinking of coming to OSCON?	19:08
+bartjol	eeh how "required" is CHI?	19:08
+perlDreamer	bartjol, optional	19:08
@preaction	bartjol: it's not	19:08
+bartjol	ah	19:08
+patspam	didn't get an email from them about my Healthcare Tech talk but it's showing as "not accepted" so I think not :(	19:09
+bartjol	good	19:09
@preaction	hence my desire to see unused WebGUI modules NOT preloaded	19:09
+perlDreamer	bummer, patspam	19:09
dreamersgirl	:(	19:09
+bartjol	theni'll let it pass for now	19:09
+perlDreamer	preaction, but how do you know if they're not used?	19:09
+patspam	yeah, really sucks!	19:09
+perlDreamer	you'd have to scan every config file	19:09
@preaction	the config file	19:09
@preaction	and we DO that during preload.perl	19:09
@preaction	we preload them	19:10
dreamersgirl	Patspam: if I make it to the WUC, you'll have to give me a dumbed-down, nutshell version of your Healthcare Tech Talk. Sounds interesting.	19:10
dreamersgirl	Much more interesting than the Healthcare talk I'm currently listening to. :)	19:11
+bartjol	aah. listening and IM-ing again? bad girl ;)	19:11
+patspam	I thought I'd hit on the secret success strategy of NOT mentioning Perl or WebGUI in my proposal	19:11
dreamersgirl	she's a great speaker, just an unfortunate topic	19:12
dreamersgirl	"Oregon Nurse Practice Act: Division 47 Rules for Registered Nurse Delegation"	19:12
+perlDreamer	pay attention, dreamersgirl	19:16
+perlDreamer	there will be a test	19:16
dreamersgirl	There was. I passed. :0	19:16
+bartjol	mmm, testEnvironment borks over the missing CHI, quite irritating	19:16
dreamersgirl	Part of the test last Friday talked about delegation. Joanne at the Virginia Garcia Clinic taught me all I know	19:16
dreamersgirl	bartjol: are you coming to the WUC this year?	19:17
+perlDreamer	it would appear that the only running I'm doing today is into the bathroom...	19:17
dreamersgirl	Oh, no!	19:18
+perlDreamer	good thing there are no children here	19:18
+perlDreamer	pushups would be handed out gratuitously	19:18
+bartjol	dreamersgirl: it is my intention	19:18
+perlDreamer	dirty little germ spreading offspring!	19:18
dreamersgirl	:)	19:18
+bartjol	but my environment has to be cooperating	19:19
+bartjol	now, it is dinner time	19:19
@preaction	is there a way we can get rid of WebGUI::Pluggable? it's annoying me today (and most days)	19:20
dreamersgirl	I say get rid of it. :) Annoying preaction is strictly not allowed.	19:20
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+bartjol	yeah, well I don't mind if doug's annoyed, I like it most when he is annoyed by Koen (less change I am :))	19:21
+bartjol	?	19:21
+bartjol	who is scrottie, did I miss something?	19:22
@preaction	bartjol: new hire. but he can introduce himself if he's so inclined	19:22
+bartjol	new pb employee?	19:22
@scrottie	hi bartjol	19:23
+bartjol	yeah, but my hunger isn't fading	19:23
+bartjol	hi	19:23
+perlDreamer	scrottie, bartjol is part of the Dutch team. He hacks, helps people and does the Dutch translation	19:23
Haarg	hello scrottie	19:23
@scrottie	hi Haarg	19:23
@preaction	awesome. WebGUI::pluggable doesn't like modules with more than one package (or a test script that includes its own test package)	19:24
+bartjol	cool stuff :)	19:24
+perlDreamer	modules shouldn't have more than one package. It's not WGBP	19:24
Haarg	there are lots of places that will run into problems like that preaction	19:25
@preaction	it's a test script that includes its own package.	19:25
+bartjol	well, have fun	19:25
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@scrottie	bartjol, I haven't technically started yet. I wanted to wrap up some personal projects. But I thought I'd come soak up some flavor here. my official start date is May 17.	19:25
+perlDreamer	packages should be put into t/lib/WebGUI...	19:25
Haarg	easiest solution is probably $INC{'WebGUI/Blah.pm'} = 1	19:25
@preaction	bah. it's 4 damned lines!	19:25
@preaction	ooooooooh good idear	19:25
@scrottie	eek.	19:25
@preaction	no?	19:26
+perlDreamer	Test::Mock ?	19:26
@scrottie	no, not that... bartjol leaving abruptly = eek.	19:26
Haarg	Test::MockObject->fake_module would possibly do it	19:26
Haarg	but it often refuses to	19:26
@preaction	refuses. i like that...	19:27
Haarg	well, it won't work for packages that are already loaded	19:28
Haarg	but it also won't work for a package with a sub-package that is already loaded	19:28
Haarg	not certain if that is a bug or not	19:28
@preaction	setting the $INC{} works, and i'll leave a comment for posterity	19:28
@preaction	97.7% coverage! yay!	19:30
@preaction	now if only we got rid of old definition in form controls in favor of new definition. that'll probably have to be one of the cleanup tasks	19:31
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * ra3266eb / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/Spectre/Workflow.pm): If a sitename is passed, filter based on sitename for spectre status. Fixes bug #11541. - http://bit.ly/bnOSd0	19:56
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re6ab688 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/Spectre/Workflow.pm): If a sitename is passed, filter based on sitename for spectre status. Fixes bug #11541. - http://bit.ly/9QeSgS	19:57
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rfc59716 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm): When a version tag is deleted, delete it's workflow instance, if it exists. Fixes bug #11544. - http://bit.ly/ar5qAN	20:40
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra03e13e / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm): When a version tag is deleted, delete it's workflow instance, if it exists. Fixes bug #11544. - http://bit.ly/9jaLKB	20:43
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r007391d / (3 files in 3 dirs): Label the form field for entering in sub-keywords. - http://bit.ly/8YyIqD	20:55
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r06d61ec / (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: UserList asset has SQL injection bug - http://bit.ly/bNN1JG	21:07
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CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * r87f5df5 / (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: UserList asset has SQL injection bug - http://bit.ly/dfiKTZ	21:08
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * ra3da060 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/UserList.pm : forgot to pass param - http://bit.ly/9S4dNA	21:13
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * rc11d195 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/UserList.pm : forgot to pass param - http://bit.ly/dchPkk	21:13
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dionak	perlDreamer, I'm running into an issue that you might be able to help me with. I think it's more of a combination of the rich text editor and RSS than story manager.	21:25
+perlDreamer	what's the issue?	21:25
dionak	We have a story mgr setup on www.mcpolymers.com/news and a RSS feed on the homepage for the story mgr	21:25
dionak	when i edit an article, I always get a line break in the source of the html for the article which cuts off the text of the first paragraph on the home RSS feed	21:26
dionak	Can't seem to resolve this	21:26
dionak	and the issue is starting to spread into other articles	21:26
dionak	it's a pita :)	21:26
dionak	The syndicated content asset doesn't seem to read HTML markup	21:27
dionak	and treat the first html paragraph like a full paragraph. if a line break exists in the html src, that ends the first paragraph	21:27
+perlDreamer	which news article has a line break in it already?	21:28
dionak	Mallard Creek Polymers, Inc. Participates in Industry Conferences	21:28
dionak	it cuts off after part of a sentence where it says "Take a New Look" in bold	21:28
+perlDreamer	yup, there's the line break	21:29
dionak	on this page, http://www.mcpolymers.com/news, you can see it's happening in multiple articles	21:29
+perlDreamer	and this only happens when an existing article is edited?	21:29
+perlDreamer	which browser/OS ? and which version of WebGUI?	21:30
dionak	that's my current use-case. FF 3.6.3/Mac OS X 10.5	21:30
dionak	checking WG	21:31
+perlDreamer	7.7.22	21:31
dionak	yes	21:31
dionak	is it a bug?	21:32
dionak	or an 'undocumented feature'? ;)	21:32
+perlDreamer	it's yet another reason to replace TinyMCE with YUI Editor	21:33
+perlDreamer	offhand, I'd guess it's a bug in TinyMCE that we'll have to workaround in the SyndicatedContent	21:34
+perlDreamer	in the item_loop in the SC template, which description template variable is being used?	21:34
dionak	descriptionFirstParagraph	21:35
dionak	it looks like \n is being stripped via a regex in SyndicatedContent.pm	21:37
dionak	maybe it needs a \r or \r\n	21:37
dionak	in addition	21:37
dionak	in sub getTemplateVariables	21:38
+perlDreamer	I think that's the problem	21:38
+perlDreamer	the paragraphs are ASCII based, instead of HTML based	21:39
+perlDreamer	are you talking line 295, dionak?	21:40
dionak	in 7.7.22 source on that server, I think it could be done on line 284 for descriptionFirst2paragraphs b/c that's used for the value of descriptionFirstParagraph on the next line down	21:42
dionak	my perl's a bit rusty when it comes to the regex	21:43
+perlDreamer	it's a non-greedy regex, pulling two sets of characters followed by a newline	21:43
+perlDreamer	dionak, it's definitely a bug	21:49
+perlDreamer	because it can make bad HTML without closing tags	21:50
dionak	good point. do you know if tinymce would use \n or \r\n in this case?	21:50
dionak	i'd like to strip that out	21:50
dionak	before it becomes a client issue	21:50
+perlDreamer	I have no idea why it's doing that	21:50
dionak	k, thanks for the help. i'll file it	21:51
dionak	probably needs a test	21:51
dionak	to expose the bug	21:51
+perlDreamer	it wouldn't hurt	21:52
+perlDreamer	and since we can use file based RSS feeds in the SC test, it should be easy to expose	21:52
dionak	um, yea..	21:53
dionak	:)	21:53
dionak	stated like a master tester.	21:54
+perlDreamer	oh, a little testing never hurt anyone	21:54
+perlDreamer	especially someone who writes tests like the Knowmad crew	21:55
dionak	yea, you're right. I'll work on fixing my local install so i can test again.	21:55
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf3d95f9 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Change how the query is persisted in Wiki search results. Fixes bug #11558. - http://bit.ly/dpFDRW	23:23
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rd070da3 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Change how the query is persisted in Wiki search results. Fixes bug #11558. - http://bit.ly/bHT2LD	23:24
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf3010db / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm): Persist data entered by the user in the registration form, but keep falling back to user profile field defaults if no user input is given. Fixes bug #11533. - http://bit.ly/9rFiCI	00:12
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * re401985 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm): Persist data entered by the user in the registration form, but keep falling back to user profile field defaults if no user input is given. Fixes bug #11533. - http://bit.ly/d1hhXd	00:13
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@frodwith	perlDreamer, did you write WebGUI::ProgressBar?	00:47
+perlDreamer	Guilty as charged, frodwith	00:47
@frodwith	perlDreamer++. I like it.	00:47
+perlDreamer	it was really a collaboration between 4 people	00:48
+perlDreamer	rizen, patspam, preaction and me	00:48
@preaction	eh, all i did was say how JS could be used to keep updating the thing	00:48
@frodwith	$_++ for qw(rizen patspam preaction perlDreamer)	00:48
@frodwith	then	00:48
@frodwith	:)	00:49
+perlDreamer	more of WebGUI needs to be updated to use it	00:49
+perlDreamer	yeah, and all JT did was come up the original idea	00:50
+perlDreamer	and all patspam did was show us how to beat the buffering	00:50
+perlDreamer	and when we all worked together, out came something great	00:50
Haarg	preaction, with yui on a cdn, do you have an idea on how you want the API to work?	00:52
@preaction	that will be frodwith's boat. more than likely we'll have a set of JS stuff in every page that will initialize the YUI 3 loader / gallery stuff with the proper variables	00:54
Haarg	we still need a mechanism to determine the URLs to use though	00:55
@preaction	those will be in the config file	00:55
Haarg	two issues with that	00:56
Haarg	one is http vs https	00:56
@preaction	scheme-less URL	00:56
Haarg	second is using the correct version	00:56
Haarg	might make sense to just force people to include the version number in a local copy like the cdn versions do	00:57
@preaction	well, the utility we provide to set up the local copy could do so for them	01:05
Haarg	it would also help with caching	01:06
Haarg	would never have to worry about the browser using outdated yui files	01:06
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+perlDreamer	did we ever make a plan to convert the utility scripts over to being wgd run friendly?	02:07
Haarg	what problems currently exist?	02:11
Haarg	there is also wgd util	02:12
+perlDreamer	that's what I was thinking of	02:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6965611 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Shop/AddressBook.pm): Make the state field required in cart addresses. Fixes bug #11564. - http://bit.ly/dcsgsw	02:15
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r18301e3 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/AddressBook.pm : Make address form fields less sticky. If you want data saved, you must choose the Update address option. - http://bit.ly/bzNjsN	02:44
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+perlDreamer	stoopid flow-through logic cases	03:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r22d6806 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Shop.pm): Better UI for changing addresses. Prevent bad things from happening if the user delete required fields. - http://bit.ly/amol8m	03:19
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbd41360 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Shop.pm): Internationalize all cart error messages. - http://bit.ly/dhhnFh	05:22
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd1559c0 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt docs/gotcha.txt): Document new required modules. - http://bit.ly/clCC5y	05:28
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+perlDreamer	preaction, if it's optional, we can always seed preload.exclude	07:32
@preaction	then someone adds the WebGUI::Cache::CHI driver to their config and it's not preloaded	07:33
@preaction	do we add all the cache drivers? preventing preloading of them?	07:33
+perlDreamer	I'd say only the new ones	07:33
+perlDreamer	and if they can access and alter their config file, they can also change preload.exclude	07:34
@preaction	okay, so we let everyone know that "if you want something new, you can't just enable it, you also have to disable the preventing of it preloading"	07:34
+perlDreamer	yes	07:34
@preaction	unless there is no other, better solution, i don't like it	07:35
@preaction	but i'm going to bed, hence the e-mail discussion	07:35
+perlDreamer	read chromatic's recent discussion of LWP::UserAgent	07:36
+perlDreamer	I think it's applicable	07:36
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dc813	can anyone tell me what is the op= to see a password recovery page?	17:21
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ckotil	op=auth;method=emailResetPassword ?	17:30
ckotil	or this op=auth;method=recoverPassword	17:31
dc813	thanks	17:33
dc813	it tells me "The function you are attempting to call is not available for this authentication module"	17:33
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ckotil	yeah i get that too. but im using a custom auth module for my SSO	17:36
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ckotil	in op=editSettings under auth do you have password recovery enabled?	17:38
dc813	yes	17:41
dc813	nm figured it out	17:59
dc813	thanks ckotil	17:59
dc813	i had the auth type set to ldap not webgui	17:59
dc813	thanks for the help	17:59
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SDuensin	Here at last!	18:01
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r67a6664 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Cache/CHI.pm): CHI requires a switch to keep track of cache size. Also, flush should be mapped to CHI's clear method. Fixes bug #11565.	20:11
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+perlDreamer	this is funny: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/websites_stop	21:13
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ckotil	heh	21:25
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@scrottie	(tom oatmeal)++	21:52
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Haarg	oh cool, i just noticed virtualbox can do branching snapshots now	22:30
Haarg	don't have to keep 3 different vms around just for ie	22:30
+perlDreamer	nice!	22:30
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Haarg	perlDreamer, for setRow, i'm thinking we need it to attempt an insert, and if that fails attempt an update	23:11
+perlDreamer	Haarg, if you think that's best, it's okay	23:14
+perlDreamer	but it absolutely must be able to handle sparse data	23:14
+perlDreamer	since there are WebGUI subsystems that use that	23:14
Haarg	yeah	23:14
+perlDreamer	the way that it was working, large parts of WebGUI were broken	23:19
+perlDreamer	so I took the most expedient solution, which was to bring over the code from master	23:19
+perlDreamer	what's wrong with using REPLACE INTO, Haarg/	23:19
Haarg	that won't handle sparse updates	23:20
Haarg	afaik	23:20
+perlDreamer	it won't	23:21
Haarg	might be able to use ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE though	23:21
+perlDreamer	but the whole set of code works, even if the current code doesn't	23:21
+perlDreamer	it only does REPLACE INTO if the key is new	23:22
Haarg	yes, but that doesn't work if there are constraints	23:22
+perlDreamer	what kind of constraints?	23:23
Haarg	foreign keys or other types of things	23:23
+perlDreamer	we don't use any of those now, do we?	23:24
Haarg	we want to	23:24
+perlDreamer	ah, okay	23:24
+perlDreamer	i thought I was missing something	23:24
+perlDreamer	(again)	23:24
Haarg	my initial suggestion of insert or update on failure won't work either	23:24
Haarg	so i guess ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE is going to be the way to go	23:25
+perlDreamer	we should extend the test suite to check the sparse setRow call	23:25
+perlDreamer	I get to work on wg8 tomorrow, and I'll do that first	23:26
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--- Day changed Wed May 12 2010
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+perlDreamer	hm	00:06
+perlDreamer	a public spectre method called "runItNowDamnIt" would be frowned upon, wouldn't it?	00:07
@preaction	prolly	00:07
+perlDreamer	I want a spectre method that can be called by approveVersionTag	00:08
+perlDreamer	it should be a thin wrapper around returnInstanceToRunnableState	00:08
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+patspam	hola	00:51
+perlDreamer	hey, patspam!	00:51
+patspam	I have cafes within walking distance again, wooh!	00:51
+patspam	re: #11560	00:52
+patspam	mail footer not appearing in Outlook due to its handling of multipart/mixed	00:52
+perlDreamer	yes?	00:52
+patspam	it seems that the footer should be concatenated with the email body in Send.pm	00:53
+patspam	rather than using addText()	00:53
+patspam	but for that to work, you want the footer to be in html when the email body is in html	00:53
+patspam	(in Message.pm actually)	00:53
+patspam	WebGUI::Inbox::Message::create	00:54
+perlDreamer	sidebar - preaction: the caching performance needs to be rechecked, since I had to turn on 'is_size_aware' in order to make the Operation/Cache work	00:55
@preaction	i just installed the latest version on the alumni site, and it's still 20% faster	00:55
+perlDreamer	latest as in not released yet?	00:56
@preaction	yes	00:56
+perlDreamer	awesome!	00:56
@preaction	it's more faster because the alumni DB is on app2, and i benched from app1	00:56
+patspam	guh, addText/Html followed by addFooter happens in 9 different places	00:56
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+perlDreamer	patspam, Inbox & Mail/Send are crufty	00:56
@preaction	yep!	00:56
+perlDreamer	preaction, what if addFooter didn't add a footer, but actually appended to the end of addText/Html instead?	00:57
@preaction	what if we didn't use multipart/mixed and instead only used multipart for alternatives?	00:58
+patspam	so how about this.. if it's currently addText($body) followed by addFooter, we turn it into addText($body . getFooter), and if it's addHtml(body) we turn do the same but translate \n into <br>?	00:58
@preaction	what if you addText twice? two footers?	00:59
+patspam	I mean in the places where addFooter is currently being called	00:59
@preaction	shouldn't addFooter be called automatically by send?	00:59
+patspam	should, yes!	01:00
@preaction	so let's fix it that way and anyone who has a problem with footers in outlook because of custom code can fix it that way too?	01:00
+patspam	fix it which way?	01:00
+patspam	make it called automatically?	01:01
Haarg	that's strange that outlook isn't able to handle multipart/mixed at all for signatures. doing that is fairly standard behavior.	01:01
@preaction	well, it is an old version of outlook we're talking about	01:01
+perlDreamer	Haarg: error: expectation of "standard behavior" in conjunction with Microsoft products	01:01
+patspam	I'm testing on Outlook 2007	01:01
@preaction	that's the latest?	01:02
+patspam	no.. there's that weird version with "ribbons"	01:02
+perlDreamer	Outlook 2010	01:03
+perlDreamer	why do we send approval notices to the person who commited a tag, instead of the person who created the tag?	01:05
@preaction	because there may be more than one person who could possible commit the tag	01:06
+patspam	I'll try it in Outlook 2010 and report back	01:06
+perlDreamer	preaction: i had a fix for the "Viewing pending assets in the trash bug"	01:11
+perlDreamer	but it breaks notifying the user who committed the tag	01:12
+perlDreamer	since it allows an admin to unlock the tag, join it, and cruise the site	01:13
+perlDreamer	and then they can commit it after making edits and such	01:13
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * r503a378 / (6 files in 5 dirs): ProgressBar::run and now Asset->www_copy has a bar - http://bit.ly/94nf7U	01:35
+perlDreamer	frodwith, any reason that all of the progress bar code couldn't be refactored to use ->run	02:08
@frodwith	nope, that's an excellent idea	02:08
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r55d55b4 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Install better error handling code into RequestApprovalForVersionTag. Do not generate leading commas in workflow instance scratch data. - http://bit.ly/ad5Rvk	02:21
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r429b0bf / (3 files in 3 dirs): Install better error handling code into RequestApprovalForVersionTag. Do not generate leading commas in workflow instance scratch data. - http://bit.ly/cGUZh3	02:25
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r34115eb / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Group.pm): Fix typos in recursive Group->getAllUsers calls. Fixes bug #11566 - http://bit.ly/cFEtw8	04:41
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r18de531 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Group.pm): Fix typos in recursive Group->getAllUsers calls. Fixes bug #11566 - http://bit.ly/al9sXC	04:41
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1599c24 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.8.19 release. - http://bit.ly/cgWZwW	04:51
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r084fee6 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.20 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/ci1MsH	05:22
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+perlDreamer	Lost is on	07:00
+perlDreamer	Later!	07:00
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r78426b7 / t/Asset/AssetExportHtml.t : Update test assets for export tests. - http://bit.ly/9ltHuU	08:08
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2a6e50b / lib/WebGUI/Asset/EMSSubmissionForm.pm : Make this code readable. - http://bit.ly/9beaDo	08:13
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12496 /translations/German/German/Shop.pm: Updating German on translation server	10:57
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+bartjol	Morning	17:07
SDuensin	AM HERE!	17:11
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SquOnk	Greetings	17:16
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+bartjol	aah, free in an hour, gamenight	17:35
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* bartjol is here to annoy people that just started working		17:36
* perlDreamer hugs bartjol, because SynQ is not here to do it		17:37
+bartjol	perlDreamer: what are the troubles with CHI, except the dependancies when installing manually?	17:37
+bartjol	just curious	17:37
+perlDreamer	troubles?	17:37
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+perlDreamer	there was a bug fixed yesterday about working with the Cache i the UI	17:38
+bartjol	complications?	17:38
+bartjol	ah	17:38
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I have a suggestion for the upgrade script. I was hit with a couple of "border cases" today :-)	17:39
SquOnk	perlDreamer: One, if the scripts cannot connect to the database, it bombs out like there's no tomorrow...	17:39
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, that's a known WebGUI bug	17:40
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...I had 7.8.17 installed without a database an attempted to upgrade it to 7.8.18 :-)	17:40
+perlDreamer	posted on the boards	17:40
+bartjol	other question, at the moment the wre upgrade script does not include an update for custom perl modules, might there be some options to include those	17:41
+bartjol	?	17:41
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Two, if the script connects to the database, but it isn't a webgui database, it bombs out in an even uglier way...	17:41
SquOnk	perlDreamer: So WebGUI is bombing out, not upgrade.pl?	17:41
+perlDreamer	SquOnk: WebGUI::SQL has a tizzy fit and throws a fatal error	17:42
+perlDreamer	bartjol: it could be made to do that, by running testEnvironment.pl maybe?	17:42
+perlDreamer	SquOnk: I could be wrong about that	17:43
+bartjol	if it first looks for the custom modules and reinstalls them	17:43
+bartjol	mmm, I have to discuss this with Koen, he prefers to install modules manually	17:43
+bartjol	and this way I suppose you require CPAN	17:44
+perlDreamer	time for me to take kids to school	17:45
+perlDreamer	bbiaw	17:45
+perlDreamer	I'm back	18:03
+bartjol	yeah, you missed the most interesting discussion :)	18:03
+perlDreamer	don't y'all talk if I'm not here?	18:03
+bartjol	nope	18:04
+perlDreamer	It's not the perlDreamer channel, you know	18:04
+bartjol	yeah, but in dutch daytime it is very quiet	18:04
+bartjol	those southern americans that wanted us to do their jobs where always the first to come online	18:05
+bartjol	not meaning Squonk off course	18:05
SquOnk	lol	18:05
+bartjol	but, was I right about that cpan statement?	18:08
+perlDreamer	I didn't understand what you meant about requiring CPAN	18:13
+perlDreamer	do you mean CPAN.pm?	18:13
+perlDreamer	or access to CPAN?	18:13
+perlDreamer	or something else?	18:13
+bartjol	ah	18:14
+bartjol	because the wre upgrade scripts only reset your version setting	18:14
@preaction	bartjol: Haarg is working on a new upgrade system that would be easy to plug in extra scripts and packages	18:15
+bartjol	and if you update, let's say the perl version, it is just untarred over the old one	18:15
+bartjol	aaah	18:15
+bartjol	lovely	18:15
+bartjol	but, finishing my sentence: the custom modules don't work with the new perl and have to be reinstalled	18:16
+bartjol	had that recently	18:16
+bartjol	but I mean that if you want it the automated, you need cpan.	18:17
@preaction	yeah, nothing we can do about that	18:18
+bartjol	no, well	18:18
+bartjol	then I have to tell Koen that wre upgrading costs me hours of work	18:18
+perlDreamer	many, many hours	18:18
+perlDreamer	that could be better spent doing other things	18:18
+perlDreamer	like sailing	18:18
+bartjol	depending on the amount of custom modules	18:18
@preaction	i would like to have a better way of describing our perl module requirements, in a plaintext file or something, so that there can be a "requires.custom" file or something that testEnvironment.pl can pick up on	18:18
@preaction	because i have many sites that i don't know what it requires, and the people who do know are either gone or just away	18:19
+bartjol	like a json file with the module and optional version?	18:19
@preaction	something like that yeah	18:19
@preaction	with one file being "requires.modules" and another being "requires.custom"	18:20
@preaction	so requires.modules is WebGUI, requires.custom is anything else	18:20
+bartjol	is there also a way to actually look for obsolete modules, like checking the webgui requirements and comparing them with perldoc perllocoal?	18:21
@preaction	not automatically, but you could do it manually	18:21
+bartjol	ah, that sounds like a joyfull work	18:22
@preaction	it does indeed	18:22
@preaction	but it doesn't matter, they're just taking up a minor amount of disk space, they aren't being loaded into memory	18:22
+perlDreamer	we're reinventing the various distribution tools	18:22
+perlDreamer	Dist::Zilla, for example	18:22
@preaction	we can't use Dist::Zilla, koen won't use CPAN	18:23
+bartjol	well it might very well be that is a "tough luck" situation for me	18:25
+bartjol	I can imagine that just "reattaching" modules to a new perl isn't the way to go, if that is pssible at all	18:26
@preaction	it isn't possible	18:27
+bartjol	very well	18:27
+bartjol	well, I just dont wake up in the middle of the night, screaming "wget; tar; cd; perl Makefile.pl; make;make test;makeinstall; aaaaah another dependancy"	18:29
+bartjol	ohh, that last is earlier in the process	18:29
Haarg	i would really like to convert testEnvironment.pl to Build.PL	18:30
Haarg	that would make installing (most of) the dependancies really easy	18:30
Haarg	but there are some unresolved issues that i haven't figured out the best way to resolve yet	18:31
+bartjol	ah, but the start sounds fine	18:31
@preaction	but Build.PL probably relies on CPAN.pm to pull deps	18:32
Haarg	yes it does	18:32
Haarg	but i don't really see that as a problem	18:32
@preaction	i don't, but koen does. poor bart :(	18:32
Haarg	for a developer or similar they can use ./Build installdeps	18:32
Haarg	and if they don't want to use that	18:33
Haarg	you still have META.{yml,json} to read out the deps and handle them however you like	18:33
+bartjol	well, if the reasons for manual install are good I don't really mind	18:33
@preaction	but CPAN.pm does exactly what you describe, only it does it for you instead of making you do it manually	18:34
Haarg	yes	18:34
@preaction	Haarg: any way for developer to add custom requirements?	18:34
Haarg	they could have their own Build.PL	18:35
@preaction	ok	18:35
Haarg	hell, we could build a WebGUI::Build module they could use	18:35
Haarg	and it could automatically add paths to preload.custom	18:35
Haarg	i would really like to have everything work as standard CPAN modules, but there are problems with that	18:36
+bartjol	grmbl, I have to go, interesting stuff	18:37
+bartjol	thanks, don't worry about me too much, weeds and vermin don't get exterminated that easily	18:38
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Trex	perlDramer: I thought I'd pop online if you wanted to ask questions about the IP-group bug we've been exchanging messages on via the bug tracker.	19:13
Trex	Sorry, perlDreamer	19:14
+perlDreamer	Trex, that would be great	19:17
+perlDreamer	although I don't really have the ability to work from machines with multiple IP's	19:17
+perlDreamer	so the fact that you say that you still get cached content, after clearing the cache, sounds funny to me	19:17
+perlDreamer	either the cache isn't being cleared, or there's something in the middle which is caching for you	19:18
Trex	Yes, that is what makes me wonder whether the sessions or group memberships aren't behaving as expected.	19:18
+perlDreamer	the group memberships are cached as memory (a hash) in the session	19:18
+perlDreamer	I don't think it's possible for it to carry over from request to request	19:19
+perlDreamer	and it definitely won't carry over between different sessions	19:19
Trex	Here's a quick demo of what I was describing in my last post...	19:20
Trex	http://demo.webgui.org/demo1273673029_123/home/new-test-snippet	19:20
Trex	You should see a permission denied page.	19:20
+perlDreamer	yup	19:20
Trex	And now you should seen teh snippet's contents.	19:20
+perlDreamer	yes	19:21
Trex	...and back to permission denied.	19:21
+perlDreamer	let's try this	19:22
+perlDreamer	in the snippet, add a macro which uses the groupText macro to print out either IN or OUT	19:22
+perlDreamer	IN if you're in the group, OUT if you're not	19:22
Trex	Can you give me the syntax for that?	19:23
Trex	(Otherwise I'd have to go look it up)	19:23
+perlDreamer	^GroupText(groupName,IN,OUT);	19:23
+perlDreamer	and you reset it back to permission denied by clearing the cache?	19:23
Trex	OK, try now.	19:26
+perlDreamer	I see IN	19:27
Trex	The view permission and group membership macro are both set to the IP group that is based on an IP that I DO have access to.	19:27
Trex	Same here...from a variety of IPs.	19:27
Trex	OK, try again. You should see OUT	19:28
Trex	The view permissions on the snippet are the same, but the macro has been changed to the IP that no one has used.	19:28
+perlDreamer	I'm going to add some more macros to that sites config file	19:29
+perlDreamer	Let's get some more debug output, to check again for content caching versus group caching	19:29
+perlDreamer	Please add these:	19:29
+perlDreamer	^Env(REMOTE_ADDR);	19:29
+perlDreamer	^Env(HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR);	19:30
Trex	OK. I left the default admin login, so you can modify the snippet yourself if you like...but I'll proceed with these.	19:30
+perlDreamer	^SessionId;	19:30
Trex	Those three have been added.	19:31
+perlDreamer	Is this the sessionId that you see: Uzh7J6wrtI9ckfSBgyf8BQ	19:31
Trex	Nope. I've got x_bcUxiHus6saP7SJT9WdA	19:31
+perlDreamer	I also see "OUT"	19:32
Trex	Yes, I still see OUT	19:32
Trex	The group macro is still set to the "random" IP group.	19:33
Trex	169.99.179.39/32	19:33
+perlDreamer	okay, I'm convinced, it's gotta be group caching somehow	19:33
Trex	Unfortunately, that's where my ability to help out probably ends. I don't have any experience with how WebGUI's caching system works.	19:35
+perlDreamer	the caching system has 3 components	19:38
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Cache, which caches either to the filesystem or the db	19:39
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Session::Stow, which is an in-memory cache in the Session	19:39
+perlDreamer	and WebGUI::Session::Stow, which is a database cache tied to the session, and persists as long as the session does	19:39
+perlDreamer	that last one is really WebGUI::Session::Scratch	19:40
+perlDreamer	user membership is cached in Stow	19:40
+perlDreamer	so if you ask WebGUI if a user is a member of a group, that cache only lasts for the duration of the request	19:40
+perlDreamer	but...	19:40
+perlDreamer	the set of members in a group is cached in WebGUI::Cache	19:41
Trex	Is the set of members in WebGUI::Cache session-agnostic?	19:45
Trex	The behavior seems to be that when WebGUI is deciding whether a request has permission to view content, it's checking against usernames in general, and ignoring specific sessions.	19:46
Trex	Either that, or once a user becomes a member of an IP-based group, that membership is applied to all sessions for that visitor, regardless of IP for the sessions.	19:48
+perlDreamer	It's done by userId lookup	19:51
+perlDreamer	the problem being that in almost all cases, userId is unique to a session	19:51
+perlDreamer	except for Visitor	19:51
+perlDreamer	preaction ping for future reference, or feel free to chime in	19:54
+perlDreamer	one very, very simple solution to this would be to NEVER cache Visitor in the group lookups	19:54
+perlDreamer	and to force reverification on every visitor request	19:55
+perlDreamer	but that's not going to help WebGUI go fast	19:55
+perlDreamer	a second way would be not do list of users for Scratch or IP users, and instead return sets of requirements that have to be met	19:57
Trex	Would it be possible to add some sort of condition on rendering of content that IF the view restriction is an IP or Scratch-based group and IF user is Visitor, THEN go confirm IP/Scratch for that session?	19:59
Trex	That way you'd only have a hit on WebGUI's speed if someone were using these types of groups, and then only for visitors.	19:59
+perlDreamer	that's not a bad compromise, but there are also cases where people share logins, and you still want the IP/Scratch requirements to be met in those cases as well	20:00
+perlDreamer	so having it only work for Visitor is not the most correct solution	20:00
+perlDreamer	and, while I tested that IP validation code very thoroughly, I didn't test using the SAME user from different IP addresses	20:02
Trex	You said that userId is unique to a session, except for Visitor -- so with users who share logins, would the different sessions for the same user be already taken care of?	20:02
+perlDreamer	yes, it's a rare case though	20:03
+perlDreamer	people should not do that	20:03
+perlDreamer	and I'm starting to think that people should not use scratch or IP based groups	20:03
Trex	Sadly, both are WebGUI features that I had hopes of using in various projects.	20:04
+perlDreamer	this is usually the point where patspam jumps in to advocate his WebGUI mod	20:06
+perlDreamer	because it would work perfectly in this case	20:06
Trex	What does the mod do?	20:07
+perlDreamer	it extends the basic WebGUI permission system to allow "other" kinds of membership activities	20:07
+perlDreamer	Flux!	20:08
+perlDreamer	that's what it's called	20:08
+perlDreamer	with it, you can say things like	20:10
+perlDreamer	this user is a member of a group if they're from this IP range	20:10
+perlDreamer	and have a scratch variable	20:11
+perlDreamer	and put an entry into a Thingy over there	20:11
+perlDreamer	and has at least 25 karma from this forum	20:11
+perlDreamer	and so on	20:11
+perlDreamer	very, very generalized	20:11
Trex	Is it something more complicated to implement than your average bazaar contribution?	20:12
Trex	(Just looked to see if there was an entry for "flux" there.)	20:12
+perlDreamer	it's a rework of the codebase	20:12
+perlDreamer	so it is more complicated than a plugin	20:12
Trex	Ah. Gotcha.	20:12
+perlDreamer	also has the side-effect of moving you out of core code	20:13
Trex	So...if I wanted to add functionality to a site where visitors could opt-in to seeing content that is normally not shown, that would have been something scratch variable groups could be used for...	20:14
Trex	Is there a way to have such functionality a different way?	20:14
Trex	(opting in would last the remainder of the visitor's session)	20:15
Trex	Would the session scratch variables that are available within the templating system separate from this group issue?	20:18
Trex	So if I used a <tmpl_if session.scratch.optin><tmpl_else> within various templates to show/hide content, would that remain unique to each visitor session and avoid the group membership issues?	20:20
Trex	Sadly not -- just checked, and even the scratch values in templates are shared between visitor sessions.	20:29
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Trex	Wait! No, I was wrong. The template variables seem more robust -- I just forgot to set caching to 0 when setting up a new test snippet. facepalm	20:32
Trex	http://demo.webgui.org/demo1273673029_123/home/scratch-snippet?op=setScratch;scratchName=optin;scratchValue=0	20:33
Trex	vs...	20:33
Trex	http://demo.webgui.org/demo1273673029_123/home/scratch-snippet?op=setScratch;scratchName=optin;scratchValue=1	20:33
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Trex	Thanks for your help, perlDreamer. Sorry to have pointed out what appears to be a rather challenging bug to deal with.	20:56
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+perlDreamer	eh, we'd rather find and fix them	20:56
+perlDreamer	than have them out there broken	20:56
@tavisto	yeah whatever perlDreamer, you never fix em	20:56
+perlDreamer	I'll fix you, you trash talking marketroid!	20:57
@tavisto	hehe	20:57
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+perlDreamer	were your ears burning this morning patspam?	21:21
+patspam	ooh, should I find the online backlogs?	21:22
+perlDreamer	mentalhouse.net	21:23
+perlDreamer	we were talking about flux	21:24
+patspam	ah yeah	21:24
+patspam	sleeping in a room with no windows is evil	21:25
+patspam	I accidentally overslept by 5hrs this morning	21:25
+perlDreamer	oy!	21:25
+patspam	helen was doing an all-nighter so she didn't mind	21:26
+patspam	I'm going to buy one of those sunrise simulator alarm clocks	21:26
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Haarg	preaction, perlDreamer, i thought of a possible solution to having to use FindBin in test scripts	21:29
+perlDreamer	I liked your tlib idea	21:29
+perlDreamer	but what do you have now?	21:29
Haarg	we could move WebGUI::Test into lib	21:29
+perlDreamer	I don't like that idea	21:29
Haarg	which also means you can use it easier if for any custom code	21:29
Haarg	it would need to not be preloaded, but that's pretty easy to resolve	21:30
Haarg	something that has to be solved anyway for my upgrades and WebGUI::Command stuff	21:30
Haarg	what do you not like about it?	21:31
+perlDreamer	it's like oil and water	21:31
+perlDreamer	production code and testing code	21:31
+perlDreamer	should be kept apart	21:31
Haarg	well, if it were just to due to the FindBin thing i would agree	21:32
Haarg	but it is a useful general purpose library for writing tests (against webgui)	21:32
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Haarg	custom code would be able to use it directly without doing some kind of even uglier search for WebGUI's t/lib	21:33
+perlDreamer	this is true	21:33
+perlDreamer	it would be nicer if WebGUI::Paths did the work for you, for that	21:34
Haarg	especially if we ever get closer to a CPAN style distro in which case t/ probably wouldn't even exist anymore.	21:34
+perlDreamer	huh?	21:34
+perlDreamer	t is like the defacto standard for tests	21:34
Haarg	an installed cpan module doesn't have t - it only exists during the install phase	21:34
+perlDreamer	mmmm, good point	21:35
Haarg	i'm not certain it is the way to go, but i seems reasonable	21:36
Haarg	*it	21:36
* perlDreamer goes for a walk		21:49
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SDuensin	Hey all you PB guys with Macs... Time to interrupt actual work. Both CrossOver Games 9.0 AND Steam released for the Mac today! Valve has 62 titles ready to go!	22:35
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+perlDreamer	The sacrifices I make for my wife	23:21
+perlDreamer	take care of home and family so she can attend school	23:22
+perlDreamer	make her lunches	23:22
+perlDreamer	and today, today almost broke the bank	23:22
+perlDreamer	she borrowed my laptop speakers	23:22
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@tavisto	yeah I installed Steam a few minutes ago while eating lunch	23:35
@tavisto	from what I've read, the performance and everything is about equal to the PC version. I am expecting better than PC results though :)	23:36
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb1221a8 / (2 files in 2 dirs): DataTable pagination is not by page, but by result number. Fixes bug #11567. - http://bit.ly/d6x7vU	23:48
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r122b5b7 / (2 files in 2 dirs): DataTable pagination is not by page, but by result number. Fixes bug #11567. - http://bit.ly/bdO8Y4	23:49
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--- Day changed Thu May 13 2010
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sbaur	Hi everyone	02:02
sbaur	sorry if this is a total newb question (I am not a programmer), but does the WG API provide any help with sorting JSON? specifically DataForm entries by field value?	02:04
Haarg	the webgui api itself doesn't but it should be pretty simple to do	02:08
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sbaur	Haarg- we may have different definitions of simple :-)	02:22
sbaur	I'd be curious how you would approach sorting data form entries by a specific field	02:24
sbaur	Heading home now. If I have a chance, I'll pop back in tomorrow. Good night all!	02:33
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+patspam	http://www.webgui.org/wiki/passive-analytics	03:21
+patspam	another belated wiki article	03:21
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+perlDreamer	patspam, your documentation skills rock!	03:47
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@tavisto	wow yeah nice wiki post brotha	04:13
@tavisto	i agree on the charts and graphs	04:13
+perlDreamer	tavisto, you code that right up	04:15
+perlDreamer	and we'll fast track it into the core	04:15
@tavisto	no prob	04:15
+perlDreamer	you think you can hit next Tuesday's release?	04:15
+perlDreamer	or do you need extra time?	04:16
@tavisto	lets see... =sum(D4-D16)	04:16
@tavisto	er sorry.... "What is =sum(D4-D6)"	04:16
+perlDreamer	try this one instead, tavisto: =sum(DU-MM1)	04:16
@tavisto	hmm? I dunt git it....	04:16
@tavisto	Tavisto acts like Sean Connery on SNL Celebrity Jeopardy	04:17
+perlDreamer	=sum(DU-MMY)	04:17
@tavisto	"that's the sound your motha made last night.... Trebek!"	04:17
@tavisto	"I'll take the rapists for $400 alex"	04:17
+perlDreamer	completely unable to faze the market man, perlDreamer is sent to the showers by the manager	04:17
@tavisto	muwhaha!	04:18
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SDuensin	Howdy all.	16:51
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+perlDreamer	I think it's time to buy a new battery	18:26
+perlDreamer	I just unplugged the charger for a second, and it suspended to disk automatically	18:26
+perlDreamer	either that, or Ubuntu and my Vostro are having another disagreement	18:26
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* perlDreamer will be gone a while		19:14
+perlDreamer	I have to drive Kathy to the school	19:14
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+perlDreamer	yay, back	21:18
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, do you have any objects about moving getFormProperties from Def::Object::Role into the meta class/	22:19
+perlDreamer	let met try that again in English...	22:20
+perlDreamer	Do you have any objections to moving getFormProperties in the meta class?	22:20
Haarg	doesn't seem like it could be moved into the meta class	22:21
Haarg	it needs an object ref	22:21
+perlDreamer	there are some classes that do introspection into Definition	22:22
+perlDreamer	Group.pm, for cleaning up groups	22:22
+perlDreamer	EMSSubmissionForm, for building a form	22:22
+perlDreamer	it's possible that the current user could not build an Asset to do that with	22:22
+perlDreamer	and I'm not sure if a "code-only" asset (without anything in the db) would work, since properties can make calls to getParent	22:23
Haarg	where in EMSSubmissionForm are you referring to	22:23
+perlDreamer	www_editSubmissionForm	22:23
Haarg	and adding in-memory assets is needed and plannet	22:23
Haarg	*planned	22:23
Haarg	i have partial code for it somewhere	22:24
+perlDreamer	maybe I should hold off on updating the SubmissionForm for 8 until that's in	22:24
+perlDreamer	there's no lack of other tests to fix :)	22:24
Haarg	the more i work on this stuff the more i want a WebGUI::Site object that has config/db/settings/cache/maybe other things from session.	22:28
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, how's that different from having Session itself?	23:15
Haarg	no user session	23:16
Haarg	and no io stuff	23:16
+perlDreamer	and no http stuff	23:16
+perlDreamer	I see	23:16
+perlDreamer	just lighter	23:16
Haarg	it's primarily the user session stuff though	23:16
Haarg	for upgrades for example, i need to interact with settings	23:18
Haarg	but that isn't possible on an api level currently without dealing with userSession	23:18
+perlDreamer	I guess I'm so used to doing that that I don't think about it much	23:22
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7f23c28 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Change newByDynamicClass to newById. - http://bit.ly/c5XbNC	23:50
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc892e51 / (3 files): Update tests for wg8 and better cleanup. - http://bit.ly/djcMGx	23:58
--- Day changed Fri May 14 2010
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6dbd389 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo.pm : Remove dead code in the Photo asset. - http://bit.ly/c0nUcA	00:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r100ed48 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo.pm : Remove dead code in the Photo asset. - http://bit.ly/bzoKdC	00:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8a9e4c7 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo.pm : Remove dead code in the Photo asset. - http://bit.ly/94TOQ8	00:06
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7db971d / t/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo/exif.t : Better clean-up. - http://bit.ly/awlZKm	00:07
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CIA-104	webgui: khenn master * rb0c7c11 / (6 files in 6 dirs): Added sendNotification flag to WebGUI::Friends::rejectAddRequest. Added setting which supresses friend rejection notices from the inbox. - http://bit.ly/ahh434	01:18
CIA-104	webgui: khenn master * rcdc2ea2 / (2 files in 2 dirs): forgot to save a bug fix - http://bit.ly/bOn28f	01:21
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7258e11 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm : Move Shortcut definition methods to Moose methods. - http://bit.ly/cpFoL1	01:29
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4fef8cb / lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo.pm : Fix a bad sort. Clarify some POD in the Photo. - http://bit.ly/annci1	01:42
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r420cc3e / (4 files): A bunch of fixed Photo tests. - http://bit.ly/ckUZWc	01:43
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2521387 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo.pm : Fix a bad sort. Clarify some POD in the Photo. - http://bit.ly/98dw0U	01:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r96a41d1 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo.pm : Fix a bad sort. Clarify some POD in the Photo. - http://bit.ly/9KCXRW	01:51
* perlDreamer is out for a while		01:58
+perlDreamer	Haarg, thoughts on the test output from t/Asset/File/Image.t would be appreciated	01:59
Haarg	i'm out for a bit but i'll take a look when i get back	02:02
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r427fd5e / lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image.pm : Removing more dead code. There is no maxImageSize property. - http://bit.ly/dAD5mG	05:47
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc748943 / (t/Asset/File/Image/setfile.t t/Asset/File/setfile.t): Update these tests for file locations and better clean-up. - http://bit.ly/chW94d	05:47
+perlDreamer	preaction: WebGUI::Test::Maker seemed to survive the WebGUI 8 transition quite well	06:02
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5140ece / (17 files in 10 dirs): Large batch of test fixes, most for newByDynamicClass -> newById - http://bit.ly/aqwv4x	06:03
+perlDreamer	from 74 to 50 failing tests in two days	06:42
+perlDreamer	not too shabby	06:42
+perlDreamer	and a lot of those failures are due to fragile tests that need sterile environments to pass	06:42
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd690148 / lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm : Fix a syntax error in the SQL to get shortcuts in the trash. - http://bit.ly/bmpxFe	07:03
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r01ba820 / t/Asset/Shortcut/010-linked-asset.t : Update test for exception handling - http://bit.ly/cJfnub	07:06
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf3c1c0e / lib/WebGUI/AssetLineage.pm : Better handling of calling validParent without an asset, somewhere. - http://bit.ly/bPamw7	07:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re69a26d / t/Asset/Story.t : Update test to remove use_ok, SKIP. - http://bit.ly/avdxyo	07:14
+perlDreamer	hm	07:46
+perlDreamer	you can't build an asset from scratch with keywords	07:46
+perlDreamer	the keywords get dropped	07:46
+perlDreamer	because I disabled the init_arg for the keywords property	07:46
+perlDreamer	because it's really a placeholder for a WebGUI::Keywords object	07:47
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+perlDreamer	yo, tavisto	07:59
+perlDreamer	please tell me you're not looking for my cheerios bowl?	07:59
@tavisto	hah, no I saw your message and I need to try it	07:59
@tavisto	just got back from Ironman 2.. Was great!	07:59
+perlDreamer	really?	07:59
+perlDreamer	cool	07:59
@tavisto	not sure why people thought it wasn't as good. Was great with good action all the way through	07:59
@tavisto	I was expecting to be disappointed but was definitely not.	08:00
+perlDreamer	well, time for this old man to get to bed	08:00
+perlDreamer	WebGUI 8 is very tiring	08:00
@tavisto	nite nite :)	08:01
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SDuensin	FrIdAy!	16:25
+bartjol	well done, you made it!	16:25
SDuensin	It was close!	16:26
SDuensin	And a quote from Star Trek: "We're looking good so far, but we're not out yet."	16:27
+bartjol	:)	16:29
+bartjol	skyspeed is not a holiday in the USA?	16:30
SDuensin	Skyspeed?	16:30
+bartjol	mmm, I don't know the english name, the cristian celebration of jesus who goes to meet his maker	16:31
SDuensin	Nope.	16:31
+bartjol	ah "Ascension of Jesus"	16:32
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SDuensin	And here, that's messed up - we already had Easter, which is supposed to be the celebration of his resurrection.	16:32
+bartjol	Eatre, that's when hares start laying eggs right, when they became birds?	16:33
+bartjol	s/Eatre/Easter/	16:33
SDuensin	Pretty much. It's when "The Church" decided they'd stomp on yet another Pagan holiday. :-)	16:37
+bartjol	aah, they love that like little boys	16:42
SDuensin	hehehe	16:43
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+patspam	hey bartjol	17:25
+bartjol	hey	17:26
+bartjol	what's up	17:26
+bartjol	what can I do you for?	17:26
+patspam	can you do my programming for today?	17:27
+patspam	I'd like to go sit in the sun	17:27
+bartjol	eeh, is it a problem if you get very little work done?	17:27
+patspam	and drink coffee	17:27
+bartjol	ah, it's beer o"clock already	17:28
+bartjol	so I think, I'll skip on the coffee	17:28
+bartjol	oh	17:28
+bartjol	what kind of programming? I can make you a macro that says: "Tough luck, I'm sitting in the sun and won't do any work"	17:29
+patspam	as long as it's exportable to SPSS that will be fine	17:30
+bartjol	mmm	17:31
+bartjol	I'm better at useless WebGUI macro'd	17:31
+bartjol	my hands are to big for my keyboard	17:31
+patspam	you're programming on an iphone?	17:32
+bartjol	no, a normal keyboard	17:32
+bartjol	arg, my own code bites me in the ass	17:33
+patspam	pity Ruud Van Nistelrooy didn't get asked to join the dutch world cup squad	17:39
+bartjol	oh, I haven't looked at the selection yet	17:44
+patspam	he offered to come out of international retirement for the world cup	17:44
+bartjol	and it would be a nice addition to have a real forward	17:46
+bartjol	but the selection for forwards doesn't look that bad	17:46
+patspam	no doubt better than australia's selection ;)	17:48
+bartjol	probably, and the ego of 1 dutch player is at least as big as that from the whole australian selection	17:49
+patspam	hehe	17:50
+bartjol	and who wrote that horrible i18n code for switching languages, it gives you some features, but in the end you have to change it all	17:51
+bartjol	worthless bastard that did that :)	17:51
+patspam	heh don't feel bad, that's true for everything.. just look what we're doing for wg8	17:53
+patspam	and perl6	17:54
+bartjol	you're rewrting perl?	17:54
+patspam	heh no, that was the collective "we"	17:55
+bartjol	ah	17:57
+bartjol	mmm, let's see whether we indeed have an extra tempvar	18:02
+bartjol	aaah, that's better	18:20
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* perlDreamer makes lunch for the kiddos		22:01
+perlDreamer	patspam, if you're around this afternoon, I'd like to talk about the possibility of Flux-lite being added to the core, to fix a bug.	22:01
+patspam	now there's a sledge-hammer approach to bug fixing if ever I heard one ;)	22:02
+patspam	what would be in flux-lite?	22:02
+patspam	or fluxminus?	22:03
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+perlDreamer	patspam, for reference: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11552	22:42
+perlDreamer	the problem is that we cache by userId	22:42
+perlDreamer	and userId 1 isn't unique	22:43
+perlDreamer	also, Groups have transitory methods for membership	22:43
+perlDreamer	by IP address	22:43
+perlDreamer	and by scratch variable	22:43
+perlDreamer	the by database, by LDAP methods are more trustworthy	22:43
+perlDreamer	and we check for group membership by returning the set of all users for the group in questions, hierarchially	22:44
+perlDreamer	that's the right thing to do for native WebGUI groups, LDAP groups, and database groups	22:44
+perlDreamer	but for IP and Scratch groups, you just want to test to see if they meet the right criteria	22:44
+perlDreamer	I think that's where something flux like should come in	22:44
+perlDreamer	I'm thinking that a group could return an object	22:47
+perlDreamer	the object accepts a user object, and checks to see whether the object meets the criteria for inclusion in the group	22:47
+perlDreamer	by IP, by scratch, etc.	22:48
+perlDreamer	that reminded me of Flux	22:48
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+patspam	awesome bug report	23:39
+patspam	trex++	23:39
+perlDreamer	totally	23:39
+perlDreamer	and he was very patient as I tried to shoot it down from every angle, too	23:40
+patspam	yeah	23:40
+perlDreamer	so new we fix it :)	23:40
+perlDreamer	er, now we fix it	23:40
+patspam	my first reaction is that visitor should be handled specially, and in other cases sharing user account for multiple users is bad practice	23:41
+patspam	or if we are to support that, there should be an option to control per-user caching of IP-based permissions	23:41
+perlDreamer	group lookups are expensive, they need to be as cached or as fast as possible.	23:42
+perlDreamer	I've recently heard of a site where uncached lookups for groups take 9 seconds	23:43
+patspam	yeah, so site user probably needs to accept some form of trade-off	23:43
+patspam	so by flux-lite you're saying some sort of simple generic mechanism for controlling dynamic/transient groups?	23:44
+perlDreamer	yes	23:45
+perlDreamer	but I may be miscontruing the original idea behind flux	23:46
+patspam	well, that's certainly the problem that flux tackles	23:46
+patspam	but you wouldn't try to port flux to do this, since it's only about 2% of flux	23:46
+patspam	flux was mainly targeted towards giving users the ability to define the dynamic rules via a UI	23:47
+patspam	but it would give us an interesting bridge towards flux	23:47
+perlDreamer	having the skeleton in place would be a good first step	23:48
+patspam	what does wG currently support for transient groups?	23:48
+perlDreamer	IP addresses, and scratch variables	23:48
+patspam	and in terms of caching?	23:48
+perlDreamer	there are two levels	23:48
+perlDreamer	level 1 is caching the set of members of the group	23:48
+perlDreamer	level 2 is the caching of whether a user is in the group, or not	23:49
+perlDreamer	level 1 is done in WebGUI::Cache, which is the problem	23:49
+perlDreamer	level 2 is done in Session->Stow	23:49
+perlDreamer	the level 1 cache is the complete set of userIds in the group	23:50
+perlDreamer	and since userId 1 isn't unique to a user....	23:50
+perlDreamer	that's what gave me the idea of segregating static vs transient membership	23:50
+patspam	so Group needs to pull out the list of users from the L1 cache, and then apply the dynamic contraints to that list	23:50
+perlDreamer	exactly	23:51
+perlDreamer	well, mostly exactly	23:51
+patspam	which should be fairly cheap to do right?	23:51
+perlDreamer	what I'm proposing is that we no longer return a set of userIds from groups defined by transient methods	23:51
+perlDreamer	instead, we should get a set of userIds of people who belong to the group	23:51
+perlDreamer	and an object which will tell you if a user is allowed in the group	23:52
+perlDreamer	static vs transient	23:52
+patspam	object as in a filter function?	23:52
+perlDreamer	yes	23:52
+patspam	does the caller need to be able to see the filtered and unfiltered sets?	23:52
+perlDreamer	not from the context of $user->isInGroup	23:53
+perlDreamer	the filter function could be cached as well	23:53
+perlDreamer	so it only has to be generated periodically	23:53
+perlDreamer	that would be fast	23:53
+perlDreamer	except we don't seem to be able to freeze code references right now	23:54
+patspam	I don't understand why you need the filter function	23:54
+perlDreamer	so imagine we have a group of 10 groups with various hierarchy	23:54
+perlDreamer	we want to see if a member is in any group	23:54
+perlDreamer	we get a set of users from the group, where users are defined as coming from WebGUI groups natively, from LDAP, and from external databases	23:55
+perlDreamer	the user fails those checks	23:55
+perlDreamer	now we need to check IP addresses, and scratch variables	23:55
+perlDreamer	these users no longer get returned in the set of members	23:55
+perlDreamer	so they have to be checked in a boolean fashion, per group, per user	23:56
+perlDreamer	that's where the filter function comes in	23:56
+perlDreamer	the group returns it, and it contains a serialized set of checks like	23:57
+perlDreamer	return 1 if WebGUI::Utility::isInSubnet($group1->getIp, $user->session->lastIp);	23:57
+perlDreamer	return 1 if $user->session->scratch->get($group2->getScratchVar);	23:58
+perlDreamer	...	23:58
+perlDreamer	...	23:58
+perlDreamer	...	23:58
+perlDreamer	return 0	23:58
--- Day changed Sat May 15 2010
+perlDreamer	the function would be built up as you walk through the groups to get the set of members	00:00
+perlDreamer	and would need a user object when it's done	00:00
+patspam	this is for a call to: $user->isInGroup($group_containing_10_other_groups) ?	00:01
+perlDreamer	yes	00:01
+patspam	each transient check is relevant to the specific group	00:02
+perlDreamer	yes	00:03
+perlDreamer	and could be empty/blank/null	00:03
+perlDreamer	if the group doesn't define membership via those methods	00:03
+patspam	yeah ok, I see it now	00:04
+patspam	seems we just need to cache the per-group transient checks	00:04
+patspam	then as you recurse through each group or sub-group, you pull the list of users and transient checks out of the cache, and apply the test	00:05
+perlDreamer	yeah	00:06
+perlDreamer	except that the cache doesn't let us store code references	00:06
+patspam	you could just cache the check info the same way it's stored in the db	00:06
+patspam	doesn't need to be a generic system, since the semantics about what the checks mean is already embedded in Group.pm	00:07
+perlDreamer	sure, and then deserialize and regenerate the code dynamically	00:07
+perlDreamer	yes, but if it's generic, it's extensible	00:07
+patspam	yeah, if you were making it flux you'd want it generic	00:07
+patspam	but all you're doing here is just moving the logic around a bit	00:07
+patspam	I think you'd want a bigger payoff than just this to cover the cost of serialising generic checks	00:09
+perlDreamer	I have a secret in my backpocket	00:09
+perlDreamer	someone has come up with a way to speed up the static membership checks by 14X	00:09
+patspam	noice!	00:10
+perlDreamer	and I think it can be leveraged to get the list of groups that have dynamic checks	00:10
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+perlDreamer	so it's a really big win speedwise	00:10
+perlDreamer	but, for now, IP and Scratch is just a good way to let anyone into your site's content	00:10
+patspam	sweet	00:11
+patspam	I think the non-generic approach is the correct first step to fixing IP/Scratch behaviour	00:11
+patspam	and then turning that into generic support for dynamic group checks is the logic next step	00:11
+patspam	and then once we have support for generic tests we could seriously think about adding user-driven rules	00:12
+perlDreamer	makes sense to me	00:13
+patspam	the only caching support flux currently has is "sticky" rules	00:13
+patspam	for linear progression through a site	00:13
+patspam	e.g. once you pass a rule, we never check again	00:13
+perlDreamer	how is the caching done?	00:14
+perlDreamer	in the session, in the session object, or in the WebGUI cache?	00:14
+patspam	caching as in, we don't process the flux logic for you anymore	00:14
+patspam	because I had complex, nested flux rules	00:14
+patspam	it's not really caching	00:14
+perlDreamer	any flux logic, or the currently valid set?	00:14
+patspam	the flux rule being evaluated	00:15
+patspam	for example, I might set view permissions on a page to be controlled by a flux rule that is dependent on 10 other rules	00:15
+patspam	I keep running all 10 checks until you pass, and then I just record in the database that you've made it	00:15
+perlDreamer	and how do you tell who I am?	00:16
+patspam	it hooks in at the $user->canView level	00:16
+patspam	content manager can choose flux rules instead of groups from the wG Security tab	00:17
+perlDreamer	right, but is it by userId, or sessionId?	00:17
+patspam	user	00:17
+perlDreamer	so it has exactly the same problem as the dynamic groups do now	00:18
+perlDreamer	once some Visitor has validated, they all validate?	00:18
+patspam	yeah, it just never applied to my sites because flux checks were for registered users only	00:18
+perlDreamer	that's a great idea	00:18
+patspam	and I hadn't done any IP-based stuff	00:19
+patspam	it was mostly time, group and Survey based	00:19
+perlDreamer	but groups have IP based memberships	00:19
+patspam	e.g. is in group X, and completed Survey Y at least 2 weeks ago	00:19
+perlDreamer	well, can have	00:19
+patspam	yeah, you're absolutely right	00:19
+perlDreamer	but still, if it's limited to registered users, you're safe	00:19
+perlDreamer	it's only the potential for abuse	00:19
+perlDreamer	Frank just came up with another fix	00:20
+perlDreamer	that's to add sessionId to the equation	00:20
+perlDreamer	userId and sessionId together are unique	00:20
+patspam	yeah that solves IP checks	00:20
+patspam	wouldn't be enough for generic checks though right?	00:21
+patspam	like if we had time-based ones	00:21
+perlDreamer	no, that would require a wholly different, new subsystem	00:21
+patspam	you need the dynamic checks done on every lookup (unless you have Flux-inspired sticky checks)	00:21
+patspam	(for a generic system)	00:22
+perlDreamer	yes, which means that the dynamic checks need to be fast	00:23
+perlDreamer	or, you have to accept the speed penalty for using them	00:23
+perlDreamer	it's a fairly low usage scenario	00:23
+patspam	yeah, I think once we get to that level we'd want to have a second level of customisable caching control at the dynamic checking level	00:26
+patspam	wow, three "level"s in that last sentence	00:26
+patspam	I need to go for a ride =p	00:27
+perlDreamer	I need to scoot and take the boys back to the orthodontist	00:36
@khenn	what sort of groups do you require patspam =p	00:39
@khenn	btw, I believe I have sped up group caching by 1000%	00:39
@khenn	still testing	00:39
@khenn	new bugs came in that need solving before I can continue	00:39
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@khenn	IT'S ALIVE!!!!	21:37
Haarg	are you sure it isn't undead?	22:05
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4056d70 / t/Asset/Wobject/Calendar.t : Drop tests for putting an Article below a calendar. This is now permitted. - http://bit.ly/9bmG6b	06:31
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, why does the new Session/Url code remove sequences of consecutive dashes?	06:49
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0e7ce2c / t/Asset/Asset.t : Update Asset/Asset.t for new fixUrl code. - http://bit.ly/cQGLnZ	06:56
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0a05907 / t/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.t : This test fails randomly, on the difference between 0 and undef. Update it to use bool(). - http://bit.ly/btUlYg	06:56
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Haarg	perlDreamer, mainly so if you have something like a title like "This - thing" it gets converted to this-thing instead of this---thing	07:52
+perlDreamer	but if someone foolishly typed in ------ as a URL, we'd truncate it	07:53
+perlDreamer	even though it's legal	07:53
Haarg	yes	07:53
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Haarg	it could probably be adjusted to only collapse dashes around other things it is replacing	07:54
Haarg	$url =~ s{-?[^\w/:._-]+-?}{-}g;	07:54
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Haarg	instead of the main replace line, and removing the later -- line	07:55
+perlDreamer	it's probably not a big deal	07:56
+perlDreamer	I had used dashes in a URL for a test, and was confused as to why they were being stripped out all of a sudden	07:57
+perlDreamer	but we should at least add in a gotcha	07:57
Haarg	actually that regex i pasted wouldn't work quite right	07:58
Haarg	would need to be s{-?(?:[^\w/:._-]+-?)+}{-}g i think	07:59
+perlDreamer	I fixed my failing tests to use underscores so they'd work	07:59
+perlDreamer	then added a failing test for -----	07:59
Haarg	multiple dashes in urls are unlikely to be useful though so a gotcha may be the way to go	08:00
+perlDreamer	yeah, you're right	08:00
+perlDreamer	I'll pull the failing test, and add the gotcha	08:03
+perlDreamer	tomorrow	08:04
Haarg	if you take care of that, i'll take care of adding some more testing in for the new code	08:11
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd2b6a7f / (5 files in 4 dirs): Fix a bug in how groups using IP filters cache the user Visitor. Also, significant speedups in group lookups. Fixes bug #11552. - http://bit.ly/ampg2L	08:12
+perlDreamer	all done, Haarg	08:16
+perlDreamer	take it away	08:16
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2318327 / (docs/gotcha.txt t/Asset/Asset.t): Document change in handling sequences of dashes. - http://bit.ly/djnJTN	08:16
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CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop upgrades * r1d8adf8 / (7 files in 5 dirs): all features implemented and basic upgrades working - http://bit.ly/dusUm5	12:57
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r3ee2121 / t/Session/Url.t : test more url forms including international characters - http://bit.ly/ayLjKH	13:26
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * rf852bd8 / t/Session/Url.t : better cleanup code - http://bit.ly/cXEIuU	13:26
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+bartjol	perlDreamer: my wuc visit is a bit more certain now	17:50
+perlDreamer	awesome!	17:51
+bartjol	yeah	17:51
+bartjol	but I'll wait with extreme euforic behaviour until the ticket is booked	17:52
+perlDreamer	euphoric, even :)	17:53
+bartjol	well, I'm a dutchy, I'm allowed to make errors	17:54
+bartjol	in english	17:54
CIA-104	webgui: khenn master * rd99e4cc / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.9.4-7.9.5.pl : put checks in before alter groupGroupings table - http://bit.ly/c672gJ	18:00
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rc3ba08b / (5 files in 4 dirs): Fix a bug in how groups using IP filters cache the user Visitor. Also, significant speedups in group lookups. Fixes bug #11552. - http://bit.ly/a1iPGf	18:00
+perlDreamer	dude, in english, "dutchy" means a large piece of ground owned by a duke or duchess	18:01
+bartjol	perlDreamer: you sneaky boy, I found your easteregg: Winkelwagensamenvattingssjabloon variabelen	18:01
+bartjol	Allows user to choose a payment method. Bart Jol for Minister in 2012!	18:02
+bartjol	that one	18:02
+bartjol	copy-pasting isn't easy	18:02
+perlDreamer	huh, I figured no one read the context variables :)	18:02
+bartjol	except some people	18:03
+bartjol	I am late though	18:03
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12497 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (5 files): Updating Dutch on translation server	18:09
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12498 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Shop.pm: Updating Dutch on translation server	18:09
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r2412a8d / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.8.19-7.8.20.pl : put checks in before alter groupGroupings table - http://bit.ly/cWAA8t	18:10
+bartjol	aah, translation done again	18:15
+bartjol	ah, how is the "dutch dude" version of dutchy spelled then?	18:17
+perlDreamer	dutchie?	18:17
+perlDreamer	Dutch bro	18:17
+bartjol	ok	18:18
+bartjol	mmm, imagine, I make a small addition (an isCurrent tmpl_var) to the infamous PickLanguage macro and write tests for it, is that also an RFE?	18:23
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r414e603 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/Profile.pm): Do not allow any backdoors for Visitor to get into his account. Fixes bug #11572. - http://bit.ly/aqI93b	18:27
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r0767ba3 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/Profile.pm): Do not allow any backdoors for Visitor to get into his account. Fixes bug #11572. - http://bit.ly/bGoEtt	18:28
+perlDreamer	bartjol, it depends	18:28
+perlDreamer	is it to make it work better?	18:28
+perlDreamer	why do you want it?	18:28
+perlDreamer	in the end, it's really only a question about whether it goes into beta, or beta and stable	18:28
+bartjol	well, it sucks that all languages are shown, regardless whether they are current or not	18:29
+perlDreamer	that's a bug then	18:29
+bartjol	it isn't really a bug	18:29
+perlDreamer	the user has no way of knowing what they are currently using	18:29
+bartjol	no	18:29
+bartjol	in that line of though a <tmpl_var currentLanguage> might be a possibilty, allthough it can be created with an "if" function	18:31
+bartjol	joy, more testing	18:31
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12499 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Shop.pm: Updating Dutch on translation server	18:31
+bartjol	prolly should add a bug report	18:31
+perlDreamer	if you want to fix it as a bug, yes	18:33
+bartjol	the assign http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11573 to me	18:34
+perlDreamer	so assigned	18:35
+bartjol	I fixed it friday, "only" have to write tests	18:38
+bartjol	oh, and documentation	18:38
+perlDreamer	docs are 5 minutes	18:41
+perlDreamer	and to add tests to your current tests shouldn't take that long	18:41
+bartjol	no	18:43
+bartjol	it isn't that bad	18:43
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* perlDreamer takes the dog to the vet, bbiaw		18:53
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@scrottie	It's 10am, May 17. I've had my coffee and unclogged my mechanical pencil. I know where the keycaps on my keyboard are.	19:58
@scrottie	(Some of these facts are subjective or debatable.)	19:58
+perlDreamer	that's that I thought!	20:17
+perlDreamer	You don't HAVE a keycaps, do you!??	20:17
@scrottie	How do I check? =(	20:18
* scrottie looks under the keyboard		20:18
+perlDreamer	I have a keycaps button, but it doesn't work	20:30
+perlDreamer	whenever I hit it, the next key I hit is a control character	20:30
@scrottie	control-alt-shift-function-meta?	20:31
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+perlDreamer	hey, kimd!	21:01
kimd	Hi, perlDreamer! How's it going?	21:01
+perlDreamer	much better this week than last	21:01
+perlDreamer	last week I was experiencing I/O buffering issues	21:02
kimd	You personally? What would that translate into?	21:02
* scrottie suggests Metamusil.		21:02
@scrottie	ack, bad scrottie. bad.	21:02
+perlDreamer	kimd, that would be diarrhea	21:03
kimd	I was looking for that word.	21:03
kimd	I don't want the details.	21:03
kimd	But I am glad you are back at work :-)	21:03
+perlDreamer	me, too :)	21:03
+perlDreamer	are you interested in taking on a potentially easy gallery RFE?	21:04
kimd	Work is a good keyword. I am having a 'best practice' question here.	21:04
kimd	Maybe. Shoot!	21:04
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11569	21:05
+perlDreamer	adding comments to the Gallery asset itself	21:05
+perlDreamer	since Comments is an AssetAspect, it should, in theory, be very easy to do	21:06
kimd	You mean not the photos nor albums but the top level gallery asset?	21:06
kimd	The RFE has not been improved yet.	21:07
kimd	approved, I mean.	21:07
+perlDreamer	good point.	21:07
+perlDreamer	if it's approved, is that something that you'd be interested in taking on?	21:08
kimd	But Frank is JT's right hand, isn't he?	21:08
+perlDreamer	yes	21:08
kimd	Well, I can do. I was having different plans. But why not change priorities?	21:08
kimd	Is it urgent?	21:08
+perlDreamer	No	21:08
+perlDreamer	I think it would be a cool feature, so I thought to bring it up to the new resident Gallery hacker	21:08
kimd	Good. So let me finish the RFE I am working on at the moment and do #11569 next.	21:08
+perlDreamer	what is your best practice question?	21:09
kimd	I need to convert a date string from exif data. It's similar to ISO dates but different.	21:09
kimd	Let me get an example.	21:09
kimd	That is what the date strings look like: 2010:05:16 22:01:46+02:00	21:11
kimd	In principle, I could replace colons in the date string and use WebGUI::DateTime for conversion.	21:11
kimd	At least that seems a viable option to me.	21:11
kimd	Would that be ok=	21:11
kimd	?	21:11
+perlDreamer	is there an EXIF date parsing module on CPAN?	21:11
kimd	I will check. One moment, please...	21:12
kimd	pearlDreamer, you are a genius!!!	21:13
kimd	I have to say it once again.	21:13
+perlDreamer	well, I wasn't sure	21:14
kimd	How do I get CPAN modules into a WebGUI release?	21:14
+perlDreamer	and we do try to avoid adding in tons of modules for special purpose stuff	21:14
+perlDreamer	for a new module, you add it to testEnvironment.pl	21:14
+perlDreamer	and add a note in the gotchas	21:14
kimd	Well, but it's better than hacking the core, isn't it?	21:14
+perlDreamer	in this case, yes	21:14
kimd	Ok. I will that. Thanks a lot.	21:15
kimd	will do that.	21:15
+perlDreamer	because of things like this: 2009J04U04N09K49A08B	21:15
+perlDreamer	according to his test suite, that's valid EXIF date	21:15
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Haarg	it seems like Image::ExifTool should be able to parse the same formats	21:23
kimd	Haarg, Image::ExifTool produces the type of date strings I have given above.	21:23
kimd	At least that is all I have been able to produce at the moment.	21:24
kimd	However, what I need is an epoch timestamp.	21:24
Haarg	well, there is a sub ConvertDateTime in the code that looks like it would do what is needed	21:26
+perlDreamer	it's not documented anywhere	21:26
Haarg	but it isn't documented and the Image::ExifTool code is too horrible for me to see how you would use it	21:26
kimd	Hm. I would prefer to use that extra module from CPAN. Still ok?	21:27
Haarg	what is the actual tag you are trying to convert?	21:29
@scrottie	hi again Haarg	21:29
Haarg	hello	21:29
@scrottie	sorry I missed you last time you were on. I answered you just as you left.	21:29
kimd	time stamps returned by ExifTool have the following format: "2010:05:16 22:01:46+02:00"	21:29
@scrottie	Haarg, for what it's worth, today is my start date. I don't know what else to say about who I am but I'm happy to answer questions. I'm SWALTERS on CPAN.	21:30
Haarg	yeah, doug told me :)	21:31
@scrottie	I'm going to go offline for a bit here but should be back and on Skype within 45 minutes.	21:34
kimd	Haarg?	21:34
Haarg	?	21:34
kimd	May I use the date parsing module from CPAN?	21:36
Haarg	seems ok to me. i'm just trying to figure out wtf the exiftool code is doing	21:36
kimd	Or do you want me to stick with Image::ExifTool exclusively?	21:36
Haarg	one thing you might try though is setting $exifTool->Options('DateFormat', 'strftime string here');	21:38
Haarg	before retrieving the date, and see if that effects what it gives you	21:38
kimd	What is ''strftime string here'?	21:39
Haarg	a strftime formatting string. %s would give you the epoch time if you wanted that.	21:39
+perlDreamer	kimd: man strftime	21:40
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+perlDreamer	strftime == STRing Formatted TIME	21:40
kimd	Not there on my machine. I will google it. Thanks.	21:41
kimd	I am having another problem here. Module CHI does not install from CPAN. Is there a wre upgrade required?	21:44
Haarg	no	21:44
kimd	I end up with compilation errors.	21:44
Haarg	can you pastebin them?	21:44
kimd	Yes. One moment.	21:45
Haarg	WebGUI will work fine without CHI though	21:45
kimd	Haarg, check http://webgui.pastebin.com/kBWRE4LF	21:47
+perlDreamer	you need to manually install Test::Log::Dispatch	21:47
+perlDreamer	and any of it's requirements that also happen to fail	21:48
kimd	Ok. Why is that not included in testEnvironment.pl?	21:48
+perlDreamer	It's one of CHI's requirements	21:49
Haarg	it shouldn't need to be	21:49
Haarg	https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=57091	21:49
kimd	"cpan Test::Log::Dispatch" fails as well	21:49
+perlDreamer	it fails due to needing Test::Builder?	21:50
+perlDreamer	Haarg, that guy's response is out of line	21:50
+perlDreamer	I had the same install problem installing on Ubuntu, so it's not just the WRe	21:50
kimd	It says "Can't locate Test/Tester.pm..."	21:50
+perlDreamer	cpan Test::Tester	21:51
Haarg	well, he did test it	21:51
Haarg	and i don't really know why it is failing	21:51
kimd	Now it's ok.	21:51
kimd	And CHI can be installed as well.	21:52
kimd	So there is Test::Tester missing as a dependency.	21:52
kimd	Bug report?	21:52
+perlDreamer	I would append to the existing one Haarg pasted	21:52
Haarg	it isn't our bug	21:52
kimd	Still we could add to testEnvironment.pl temporarily?	21:53
kimd	I mean, does it hurt?	21:53
Haarg	kimd, can you check your ExtUtils::MakeMaker version?	21:54
kimd	Sure. If you tell me how to do that.	21:55
Haarg	perl -MExtUtils::MakeMaker -le"print ExtUtils::MakeMaker->VERSION"	21:55
kimd	6.48	21:56
kimd	Haarg: "$exifTool->Options('DateFormat', '%s');" is doing exactly what I need.	22:05
kimd	I will go with tha.	22:05
kimd	that.	22:05
Haarg	perlDreamer, if you have some time at some point, i could use some feedback on my upgrades code	22:08
+perlDreamer	sure	22:08
+perlDreamer	I'm just beating me head against the SC asset	22:08
Haarg	http://github.com/haarg/webgui/tree/upgrades	22:08
Haarg	it needs better documentation	22:09
Haarg	the basic idea is, WebGUI::Upgrade runs the upgrades. it looks in var/upgrades/ for directories like 7.9.3-8.0.0 to find a path between the current and code version	22:10
Haarg	and uses the WebGUI::Upgrade::File::* modules to run each file in the dir based on its extension	22:10
Haarg	WebGUI::Upgrade::Script has all the magic to make the perl upgrade scripts simple	22:10
+perlDreamer	do we need another exception handler in the core?	22:12
Haarg	what are you referring to?	22:12
+perlDreamer	Try::Tiny	22:12
Haarg	it's already a prereq via Moose	22:12
Haarg	and it isn't a replacement for Exception::Class	22:13
Haarg	it's a replacement for eval	22:13
Haarg	it can (and should) be used in conjunction with Exception::Class	22:13
+perlDreamer	inside the catch block?	22:14
Haarg	yes	22:15
Haarg	there are a number of problems with "eval { blah } or do { print 'error!' }" and "eval { blah }; if ($@) { print 'error!' }" and it works around them	22:15
+perlDreamer	even though it's a prereq for Moose, we should probably call it out directly in testEnvinroment.pl	22:17
Haarg	yeah, certainly	22:17
Haarg	there are some other prereqs i need to add as well	22:17
+perlDreamer	I see why you wanted the site object now	22:20
Haarg	WebGUI::Upgrade::Script is probably a little too magic right now but it will take some thought to come up with a better way to do things.	22:22
kimd	Hey, the 7.9 style selector really rocks!	22:27
kimd	Just used it the first time and I really like it.	22:27
+perlDreamer	preaction++	22:29
kimd	Let me add one more: preaction+++	22:29
Haarg	i should try that out at some point. i still need to install apache/mod_perl.	22:31
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ckotil	the wiki sure does create a lot of version tags in 7.6.35	22:48
ckotil	does that change at all in 7.7+ ?	22:48
+perlDreamer	ckotil, it's just like the CS	22:48
+perlDreamer	one tag per post, per edit	22:48
ckotil	ok	22:48
ckotil	im preppin to upgrade to 7.7.33-stable. removing orphan'd version tags and removing rows from assetData without a tagId in assetVersionTag.	22:50
ckotil	other wise the upgrade script fails	22:50
Haarg	perlDreamer, thoughts on http://gist.github.com/404151 ? allows you to do try { stuff; } catch { when ('WebGUI::Error::Database') { print "database error!" } }	22:50
+perlDreamer	overload ~~ will let you do that?	22:51
Haarg	yeah	22:51
+perlDreamer	how does it work?	22:53
Haarg	when does a smart match against $_	22:53
Haarg	so we override smart match to be an isa check for exception objects	22:53
Haarg	so that $error ~~ 'WebGUI::Error' is equivalent to $error->isa('WebGUI::Error')	22:54
Haarg	which is really all that WebGUI::Error->caught is doing	22:54
Haarg	it's just makes catching errors a little friendlier	22:55
Haarg	instead of having catch { if ($_->isa('WebGUI::Error::Database')) { blah; } }	22:56
+perlDreamer	I'm obviously not perl 5.10 compliant	22:56
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Haarg	http://perldoc.perl.org/perlsyn.html#Smart-matching-in-detail	22:56
Haarg	for objects though the only way a smart match will pass is if the object has it overloaded	22:57
@scrottie	what's the basis of WebGUI::Error? Error.pm has unfixable memory leaks.	22:59
Haarg	Exception::Class	22:59
Haarg	the names are a little wonky	22:59
@scrottie	not familiar with it...	22:59
Haarg	you use WebGUI::Exception but all the exception classes are in WebGUI::Error	23:00
Haarg	as far as i know there aren't any major problems with it	23:00
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rb5d5892 / lib/WebGUI/HTML.pm : Add a blank line for appearances. - http://bit.ly/bOnb4u	23:10
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rbf85930 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Better handling for paragraphs in the SC. This code needs to be refactored out and generalized into a method that anything can use. Fixes bug #11563. - http://bit.ly/doxU9Z	23:13
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3ae3684 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Better handling for paragraphs in the SC. This code needs to be refactored out and generalized into a method that anything can use. Fixes bug #11563. - http://bit.ly/bW6LdP	23:15
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+perlDreamer	Haarg: where do the environment variables get set in WebGUI::Upgrade	23:32
Haarg	WebGUI::Upgrade::File::pl	23:32
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Haarg	WebGUI::Upgrade::Script needs POD to explain how to use it and comments to explain what it is doing	23:33
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@scrottie	hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.	23:34
kimd	Good night, everyone! Happy hacking...	23:37
scrottie1	night kimd	23:37
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Haarg	perlDreamer, did you have any other thoughts on the upgrade stuff? the main issues i have with it right now is that it isn't obvious why WebGUI::Upgrade::Script is laid out how it is, and the actual trigger for the cleanup code is extremely non-obvious.	00:23
+perlDreamer	Haarg, it's magic enough that I had a hard time following it	00:25
Haarg	the trigger for the cleanup is actually when the imported sub gets deleted, which happens with the anonymous class goes out of scope.	00:26
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+MrHairgrease	howdy!	00:32
scrottie1	hiya MrHairgrease	00:33
+MrHairgrease	It used to be possible to upload images from within the richtext editor right?	00:33
+MrHairgrease	I cannot find the upload thingy anymore however.... =(	00:33
+MrHairgrease	any idea as to where it has gone	00:34
Haarg	possibly not enabled on that rich editor?	00:34
+MrHairgrease	how do I enable it?	00:35
+MrHairgrease	I looked already but couldn't find the right option	00:35
+MrHairgrease	sorry for the n00bism =)	00:35
+MrHairgrease	I thought it was WebGUI Image, which looks like the screen, but doesn't have a upload box	00:37
Haarg	that should be the one	00:37
+MrHairgrease	then I must be going insane...	00:38
Haarg	you have to go to the media folder first though	00:38
+perlDreamer	Yup	00:38
+MrHairgrease	ohhh	00:38
+MrHairgrease	right	00:38
+MrHairgrease	didn't	00:38
+MrHairgrease	know that	00:38
+perlDreamer	How much time did you spend in the bunny suit today, MrHairgrease?	00:38
+MrHairgrease	about four hours I think =)	00:39
+perlDreamer	oh yeah, way too long	00:39
+MrHairgrease	check!	00:39
+MrHairgrease	found it	00:39
+MrHairgrease	thanks	00:40
+MrHairgrease	maybe the insert webgui image should default to the media folder?	00:40
+MrHairgrease	would that make sense?	00:40
+perlDreamer	I don't think so	00:40
+MrHairgrease	ok	00:41
+MrHairgrease	it 23:45 over here so I'm not gonna argue	00:41
+MrHairgrease	and have some wine instead	00:41
+MrHairgrease	=)	00:41
+MrHairgrease	thanks and see you guys later!	00:41
+perlDreamer	later, d00d	00:41
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7afb41f / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm): Allow whitespace formatting in user invitations. Preserve text messages with newlines. Fixes bug #11538 - http://bit.ly/a8Eh9a	02:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r8da151e / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm): Allow whitespace formatting in user invitations. Preserve text messages with newlines. Fixes bug #11538 - http://bit.ly/9ml1Ko	02:15
+perlDreamer	frodwith, if I ask you if you want feedback about the new UI for the helpdesk, run screaming	02:15
@frodwith	aroo?	02:16
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SDuensin	Greetings, program!	16:52
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+bartjol	program, who's that	16:54
* SDuensin sighs		16:56
* SDuensin hands bartjol a copy of TRON.		16:56
+bartjol	do I accept?	16:57
SDuensin	Tell me you've seen TRON!	16:59
+bartjol	ok, I've seen TRON	17:00
SDuensin	Whew.	17:00
SDuensin	Was starting to be worried about you. :-)	17:01
+bartjol	but I want to see it again, can I have that copy	17:01
+bartjol	?	17:01
SDuensin	Uh. It's 4.5 gig.	17:01
* SDuensin keeps entire DVDs on his server.		17:01
+bartjol	oh, mail it then, that's what e-mail is for :)	17:02
SDuensin	hehehe	17:02
+bartjol	at least, some client seem to think that way	17:02
SDuensin	Email is "magic". People don't get it.	17:06
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+bartjol	I like the people that complain when using an old box on a new computer for the first time and start complaining that their new computer is "slow"	17:16
SDuensin	Arrgh. I'm gonna smack PayPal in the head. Why won't they give me the eCheck option?!	17:18
+bartjol	to annoy you (and you specific)	17:22
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* SDuensin had to use an old-fashioned paper check.		17:27
+bartjol	whoa, and then the receiver prolly doesn't understand it	17:29
SDuensin	I warned them. :-)	17:29
SDuensin	All this check nonsense is because the vendor is cool - since there are no credit card fees involved, they actually pass that savings on to me. $55 is worth using a check!	17:30
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ckotil	ls	17:56
ckotil	oops	17:56
+bartjol	:)	18:07
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9cf2a30 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm): Make the shortcut obey the modified permissions of its originating Asset. Fixes bug #11549. - http://bit.ly/bF6K5j	18:46
+perlDreamer	ckotil, that's your Shortcut fix	18:53
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1236eea / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm): Make the shortcut obey the modified permissions of its originating Asset. Fixes bug #11549. - http://bit.ly/aYWYPj	18:53
+perlDreamer	technically, the Group To View is redundant, since you can also use the Shortcut permissions to achieve the same thing	18:54
+perlDreamer	but it should work anyway	18:54
@preaction	but i thought a feature of shortcuts would be to allow the shortcut to be seen but not the actual content	18:55
+perlDreamer	yes, but it wasn't working correctly	18:56
+perlDreamer	the overridden Asset's permissions were not being considered for displaying it inside the Shortcut	18:56
+perlDreamer	it was a pretty simple fix, just adding canView checks	18:57
@preaction	i meant the shortcut can display the content, but the user can't view the non-shortcutted asset	18:58
+perlDreamer	that wouldn't work either	18:58
+perlDreamer	until this bugfix	18:58
+perlDreamer	well, it would work	18:58
+perlDreamer	and will continue to work	18:58
+perlDreamer	but you have to override the original Asset	18:58
+perlDreamer	instead of now, where the Group to View for the original Asset was ignored, completely	18:59
@preaction	okay, nevermind. i wasn't thinking right. $shortcut is the original asset + overrides, i get it now	18:59
dionak	perlDreamer, thanks for your work on the syndicated asset bug!	19:08
+perlDreamer	you're welcome :)	19:08
carogray	-hi all.	19:08
dionak	hey, carogray	19:08
+perlDreamer	Please tell serif that I didn't mean to step on any toes by fixing the bug before she could come up with a test case.	19:08
carogray	hi dionak:	19:09
dionak	she doesn't mind at all. ;)	19:09
dionak	but do we still need a test?	19:09
carogray	is there a quick and easy (haha) way to create one of those boxes that pops up when you leave a website?	19:09
dionak	or is that overkill?	19:09
+perlDreamer	I did write a test for that feature	19:09
dionak	oh, cool. thanks.	19:09
+perlDreamer	she's always free to write more, if she wishes	19:09
dionak	carogrey, that would be javascript	19:10
carogray	I hate those surveys that appear as soon as you get to website asking about your experience when you haven't even tried it yet.	19:10
@preaction	carogray: <body onunload="return confirm('Are you sure?')">	19:10
carogray	can you point me to an example	19:10
carogray	?	19:10
@preaction	right there, that's an example. toss that in your style template	19:10
carogray	remember, I am just a conceptual website coordinator - not actually programmer	19:10
carogray	anywhere?	19:10
@preaction	but, i might suggest, it is INCREDIBLY ANNOYING	19:10
@preaction	carogray: no, replace your existing <body> tag	19:11
@preaction	you need the onunload="..." part	19:11
carogray	go on...please	19:11
dionak	has anyone setup WebGUI on CentOS?	19:11
@preaction	dionak: yes, we do	19:11
carogray	preaction: is ther anyay to make it less annoying?	19:11
@preaction	carogray: no, the entire idea is annoying.	19:12
carogray	well, we just want it up temporarily - so much better when leaving a site than when entering	19:12
dionak	one of our clients offers an incentive for completing surveys and presents it as an Ad in the page	19:12
dionak	it's less annoying	19:12
dionak	but you may not get as many volunteering	19:13
carogray	ja.... I have just been told we haven't a penny	19:13
dionak	dunno without testing	19:13
carogray	I could always offer a weekend on the pig farm!	19:13
dionak	haha	19:13
carogray	reply now and you get to come in black fly season too! the real NH experience!	19:14
dionak	educational weekend on a quaint NH farm	19:14
dionak	;)	19:14
carogray	think I will try annoying on leaving popup boxes... for two weeks.	19:14
CIA-104	webgui: kimd master * r95e9e52 / (6 files in 6 dirs): Gallery: Allow specification of location when uploading ZIP archives (RFE 11502) - http://bit.ly/9W0dc9	19:24
CIA-104	webgui: kimd master * r8030bed / (6 files in 6 dirs): Gallery: Sorting of files uploaded in zip archives (RFE 11517) - http://bit.ly/bqOJgf	19:24
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * r96a52c5 / (7 files in 7 dirs): Merge remote branch 'spunky/rfe11517' - http://bit.ly/aRlVE1	19:24
scrottie1	preaction, good morning. I'm supposed to talk to you. I just got in... still logging in to stuff.	19:44
@preaction	np, we gotta wait until colin gets back from the gym	19:45
@preaction	but we can talk, discuss some stuff i guess	19:45
@preaction	let me get my skype working	19:45
ckotil	perlDreamer: sweet. thanks	20:12
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scrottie1	oh, boy. Chance of all tests passing 0.000%	20:21
scrottie1	Image::Magick	20:21
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scrottie1	installed my own perl long ago because very bad things happen when you try to mix and match vendor packages and modules installed from CPAN, and there's no way on earth I'm not going to install stuff from CPAN, and that usually works pretty well...	20:22
* perlDreamer is back		20:26
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scrottie1	starting to think that this is the one thing that might be the showstopper for trying to use my 5.12 install.	20:27
@preaction	imagemagick not working under 5.12? fun!	20:28
@preaction	that's our worst dependency really	20:28
+perlDreamer	5.12 is so new, I wouldn't expect lots of things to work	20:28
scrottie1	usually they watch smoke tests for important modules failing before a release and work with the module authors to get things resolved	20:29
scrottie1	5.12, they seemed to have let that practise slide a lot	20:29
scrottie1	some of my favorites are down for the count... Data::Alias, for example	20:29
+perlDreamer	you could install the WRE scrottie	20:29
+perlDreamer	it'll get you up and going quickly	20:30
scrottie	yeah, it's looking like that would be a good idea. I'd need to figure out how to use that with git checked out versions of WebGUI.	20:30
+perlDreamer	it's pretty easy	20:31
+perlDreamer	as you install the WRE, it will ask you how you want to proceed	20:31
@preaction	i've got a symlink at /data/WebGUI that points to my currently-running codebase	20:31
+perlDreamer	either to pull the latest, or to do a manual install	20:31
+perlDreamer	then use what preaction said, the symlink to a git repo, and you're golden	20:31
@preaction	wgd has a "reset" function that will fix the database after you change git branches too	20:32
@preaction	did we update the "Getting Started Hacking" guide? do we even have one?	20:32
+perlDreamer	I think it's on the wiki, preaction	20:32
scrottie	vaguely remember seeing something like that	20:33
scrottie1	testEnvironment.pl doesn't check whether you own the directories that modules get installed to, only that you are root.	20:34
@preaction	yes, that's a mild irritation (and if you want you can fix)	20:34
scrottie1	woohoo!	20:35
+perlDreamer	your first WebGUI bug	20:35
@preaction	as you go you're probably gonna find lots of these little things that we've either just learned to live with or decided we didn't have time to fix yet	20:35
* perlDreamer gets tearful		20:35
scrottie1	such is life.	20:35
@preaction	keep track of them, even add # TODO in there and commit that, we will have 2-4 months of time to go in and do all that cleaning	20:36
@preaction	after we start releasing WebGUI 8 alphas	20:36
scrottie1	amazing.	20:36
@preaction	yeah, we'll also be fixing 8 bugs, but i am damn tired of the little annoyances that add up to big problems	20:37
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* perlDreamer suspects we'll be fixing a few more than 8 bugs, preaction		21:01
@preaction	damnit! what do I pay you for!	21:01
+perlDreamer	Playing straight man?	21:02
+perlDreamer	witty reparte'?	21:02
+perlDreamer	reminding you that it's 1:00pm CDT?	21:02
@preaction	yep, getting things rdy	21:02
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scrottie1	I've been using the Cox internet but I ordered up some DSL from a local ISP for myself. that went live Friday and I did setup Monday. It doesn't work. Cox is basically awful.	21:29
@preaction	fun	21:29
+perlDreamer	FIOS ftw	21:29
scrottie1	so, just btw, hopefully some day my Internet will start not sucking so much, but we'll see.	21:29
@preaction	i think the charter around here is rebranded cox	21:29
scrottie1	I was hoping to get something better peered, too.	21:30
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+perlDreamer	hm, yet another CS template	21:34
scrottie1	should I avoid wre-0.9.3-source?	21:35
@preaction	you can try it, but that requires compiling it	21:35
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+perlDreamer	lunch time	21:49
scrottie1	time is an illusion. lunch time, doubly so.	21:49
+perlDreamer	the way the room is spinning, you could definitely be right	21:50
+perlDreamer	or left	21:51
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+perlDreamer	scrottie, you're having the hiccups	23:39
scrottie	yeah, Cox is in rare form today	23:40
scrottie	I'm actually in middle of trying to remember how to do ppp. I dug the 56k modem out of the closet.	23:41
scrottie	the local DSL provider I signed up with offers dialup too. the DSL ain't working but maybe that will.	23:41
scrottie	I paid to have this place wired for phone and by gum, I'm gunna use it! the phone wiring that was in the walls oxidized to the point where it just fell apart. depression era housing.	23:43
@preaction	fun, reminds me of my electrical	23:43
+perlDreamer	preaction, we could fix that when I'm in Mad-city	23:45
+perlDreamer	I wired my house	23:45
@preaction	i hope to have people living there before then	23:46
+perlDreamer	there == here?	23:46
@preaction	no, i don't live there anymore	23:46
+perlDreamer	ah, yes	23:46
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--- Day changed Wed May 19 2010
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scrottie0	drat, they stopped offering dialup free with DSL. they used to.	00:50
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r22a6ce3 / (13 files): Remove 7.8 upgrade files from 7.9 - http://bit.ly/aVob4x	01:59
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf1ea810 / (8 files in 8 dirs): Allow users to unsubscribe via email address, without logging in. Fixes bug #11559. - http://bit.ly/9DsdcJ	01:59
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+perlDreamer	time to make dinner for the herd	02:05
scrottie0	going to be back after that?	02:05
+perlDreamer	oh, yes	02:06
+perlDreamer	probably around 6:00pm PDT or so	02:06
scrottie0	I'm thinking of running an errand (re: DSL going). if I can get all of this up, I'm likely to have questions as I start to look at test failures	02:06
scrottie0	cool.	02:06
+perlDreamer	there will be no lack of test failures	02:06
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scrottie0	cool. enjoy dinner with the grubs.	02:07
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re485fc3 / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Collaboration.pm : Add a missing i18n label for the new unsubscribe help. - http://bit.ly/9jWDHB	03:43
+perlDreamer	hm, no preaction	03:43
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CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop upgrades * raceec73 / lib/WebGUI/Exception.pm : allow smart matching exceptions to class names - http://bit.ly/9FVmDN	04:35
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop upgrades * r68f1ed8 / (9 files in 4 dirs): more comments, support for txt and pod upgrade files - http://bit.ly/9sHmQx	04:35
Haarg	perlDreamer, i've added some comments to and reorganized WebGUI::Upgrade::Script a bit. might be more clear now.	04:36
+perlDreamer	cool	04:38
+perlDreamer	any work on the in-memory assets?	04:38
Haarg	not so far. i've been trying to get the upgrade stuff finished so i can move on to that.	04:39
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2c75bc5 / t/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum/addArchive.t : Potential test update due to ordering photos in GalleryAlbum addArchive. - http://bit.ly/aGG0Np	04:48
+perlDreamer	anyone in the channel have up to date git repo for the master branch?	04:49
+perlDreamer	I need a test verified on a different system	04:49
Haarg	i do but i don't have apache	04:49
+perlDreamer	not needed	04:56
+perlDreamer	t/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum/addArchive.t	04:56
+perlDreamer	hm	04:57
+perlDreamer	I tried it on my VM, and the fileOrder it completely indeterminate	04:57
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I expect test 9 to fail	04:57
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re76f13b / t/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum/addArchive.t : fileOrder is completely machine dependent, and the order is not determinate. Update the test to only check that all files are present, and not their order. - http://bit.ly/aczTBo	05:02
+perlDreamer	preaction: did all the tests pass when you committed the recent Gallery RFE's?	05:02
Haarg	perlDreamer, test 9 failed	05:02
+perlDreamer	thanks, Haarg	05:02
@preaction	perlDreamer: you know, I thought that because of kimd's recent success that i could skip it. i was wrong?	05:02
Haarg	i also reinstalled perl so UNIVERSAL::isa and UNIVERSAL::can are bitching at me again blah	05:02
+perlDreamer	preaction, one test is machine dependent for order	05:03
@preaction	yay!	05:03
+perlDreamer	so everything worked, but the test is wonky	05:03
@preaction	sorry	05:03
+perlDreamer	15 push-ups	05:03
@preaction	i can only make 4	05:04
+perlDreamer	try using both hands	05:05
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop upgrades * r4df2326 / (7 files in 3 dirs): upgrade files as objects - http://bit.ly/bU1WUF	05:15
Haarg	preaction, would you be up for a code review of my upgrades branch?	05:16
Haarg	needs POD but is otherwise basically complete	05:17
@preaction	can i add it to the queue for wednesday?	05:17
Haarg	sure	05:18
@preaction	spent all day inside TGC's PDF generation code. feeling dirty	05:19
Haarg	i've spent most of the day screwing with homebrew and distroprefs so i can reinstall perl and everything else i use easily and without any intervention	05:20
Haarg	including imagemagick	05:20
@preaction	how is homebrew, btw?	05:20
Haarg	pretty nice. i had previously just been compiling everything myself into /usr/local	05:21
@preaction	oh, i've been using macports	05:21
Haarg	it basically automates that process as well as providing the right patches/config switches	05:21
Haarg	and makes uninstalling easy	05:21
Haarg	not a full package management system, but it does look at prereqs when installing	05:22
+perlDreamer	all ready for release. It'll start in an hour or so after the kiddos go to bed	05:26
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4969f31 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.5 release - http://bit.ly/bSZ5ys	06:14
+perlDreamer	brb	06:15
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+perlDreamer	okay, everyone who is awake in the channel, please go hammer webgui.org	07:05
+perlDreamer	I'm looking for a subjective appraisal of speed.	07:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5a0d7dd / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.6 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/ce7v6y	07:19
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scrottie0	w00t	07:25
+perlDreamer	dude!	07:27
+perlDreamer	got some bits?	07:27
scrottie0	I sure seem to.	07:27
scrottie0	It's 9 now... I left to visit the ISP's office at 6, I think it was.	07:27
+perlDreamer	ouch	07:27
scrottie0	my DSL modem because an office curosity	07:27
scrottie0	became	07:27
+perlDreamer	Richard just got scragged!	07:29
scrottie0	who? huh?	07:31
+perlDreamer	I'm watching Lost	07:32
+perlDreamer	scrottie0: I'm getting ready to pack it in for tonight	07:42
+perlDreamer	got any last second questions?	07:42
scrottie0	/data/WebGUI/conf/mime.types	07:43
scrottie0	... it's writing an error to error_log about the lack of that... that's where I left off	07:43
scrottie0	not exactly a question but comments welcome.	07:43
scrottie0	I'm sure I can track one down but there doesn't seem to be one in the git checkout and there's no mention of it in the src install instructions... No such file or directory: could not open mime types config file /data/WebGUI/conf/mime.types	07:44
+perlDreamer	there is no conf subdirectory in WebGUI	07:45
+perlDreamer	maybe it's a problem with your apache config file?	07:45
scrottie0	hrm. oh.	07:46
scrottie0	blush yes.	07:47
+perlDreamer	scrottie0, WebGUI is extremely difficult to setup and learn	07:48
scrottie0	yeah. go to bed. hopefully I'll have this thing running by the morning.	07:48
+perlDreamer	that's one of the reasons we setup the WRE	07:48
+perlDreamer	and later, wgd	07:48
+perlDreamer	Lost is on for another 12 minutes	07:48
+perlDreamer	:)	07:48
scrottie0	heh	07:48
scrottie0	my Apache is rusty... this is the first time I've touched 2.x	07:48
+perlDreamer	would a sample config help?	07:49
scrottie0	er, no, but thanks.	07:49
scrottie0	haha! that and a module not checked by the dep installer and it's running.	07:52
scrottie0	take that!	07:52
scrottie0	afk, beer.	07:52
scrottie0	got up at 6am to go pick apricots and peaches. going to make it an early night myself here.	07:53
+perlDreamer	cool!	07:53
+perlDreamer	you have a farm?	07:53
scrottie0	that would be cool... nope. friend of a friend. place I'm staying at has figs, grapefruit, organes, pamegranites, mullberries, key limes...	07:54
scrottie0	but that's not enough for me ;)	07:54
+perlDreamer	we haven't even planted up here, yet	07:55
scrottie0	craziness. we put our summer gardens in... okra, tomatillos	07:55
scrottie0	eggplant	07:55
scrottie0	almost everything else has bolted and gone to seed.	07:56
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12500 /translations/German/German/Account_Inbox.pm: Updating German on translation server	14:41
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12501 /translations/German/German/Asset.pm: Updating German on translation server	14:41
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12502 /translations/German/German/Asset_WikiMaster.pm: Updating German on translation server	14:41
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12503 /translations/German/German/Asset_Collaboration.pm: Updating German on translation server	14:41
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12504 /translations/German/German/Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm: Updating German on translation server	14:56
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12505 /translations/German/German/Asset_SyndicatedContent.pm: Updating German on translation server	14:56
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12506 /translations/German/German/WebGUI.pm: Updating German on translation server	14:56
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kimd	Morning everybody!	15:40
kimd	Is there a reason I cannot update to the current head on github?	15:40
kimd	git always aborts with the following error message "fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly"	15:41
+bartjol	morning kimd	15:42
kimd	Hi bartjol, how is it going?	15:42
+bartjol	I'm fine, except my setup of the picklanguage macro is/was buggie	15:43
+bartjol	but I don't know about git	15:43
kimd	Hm. So everyone has his or her own problem.	15:44
kimd	Are you trying to internationalize your private page?	15:44
+bartjol	well, the fix was fast, testing takes more time (mostly because it is not my daily job to test)	15:44
+bartjol	well, I was doing some stuff for the new procolix page	15:45
+bartjol	actually, I knew it for some time, that that was missing	15:45
kimd	I see. I hate writing testing code as well. It takes me at least twice the time required to implement the feature.	15:45
+bartjol	my site is dedicated to testing and galleries	15:46
+bartjol	well, but in the end it is best that stuff is tested	15:46
kimd	Sure. I did not want to question the necessity.	15:47
+bartjol	but, soon we will not need the Getsessionlanguage anymore, that functionality is incorporated in the PickLanguage macro	15:49
kimd	Hah. Git pull is working again.	15:49
+bartjol	ah, good	15:50
kimd	Did you write the PickLanguage macro?	15:50
+bartjol	yes	15:51
kimd	Nice.	15:51
+bartjol	and the contenthandler	15:51
kimd	Contenthandler? I have to admit I am not familiar with it.	15:52
kimd	Why is it not used on webgui.org?	15:52
+bartjol	mostly because I was presenting �Internationalization� at the wuc and that part was terrible	15:52
+bartjol	so I made more features	15:52
+bartjol	the contenthandler is the thing that actually switches the language, the macro only makes linkes to the contenthandler	15:53
+bartjol	dunno why it isn used	15:53
+bartjol	you can put ?op=setLanguage;language=German at the end of the url, that will do it	15:53
kimd	Will it change the language and/or switch to another branch?	15:54
+bartjol	at webgui.org only switch the webgui language	15:54
+bartjol	there isn another branch afaik	15:54
kimd	But can it swith to another branch as well?	15:56
+bartjol	no, not the picklanguage, that was the langguagepageswitch macro	15:56
kimd	I see. In any case, webgui seems to be ready for completely internationalized web pages.	15:57
kimd	Cool!	15:57
+bartjol	it might be worth looking whther the 2 can be merged	15:57
+bartjol	but that might be hard	15:57
kimd	I am really curious for the first example of use.	15:58
+bartjol	I haven used it myself, except for my presntation	15:58
kimd	bartjol, something else: Why has it become so silent in the forum and also the chat?	15:59
+bartjol	which is online on http://www.bartjol.nl/nl/home/wuc-2009-internationalisatie/	15:59
kimd	I will have a look at it.	16:00
+bartjol	well, the amricans join the chat later	16:00
+bartjol	maybe webgui is better understandable	16:00
+bartjol	I don know	16:00
+bartjol	or the userbase is decreasing	16:00
kimd	I really have the impression that no one is posting in the forum anymore except for plainblack staff and the usual suspects.	16:01
kimd	I believe to remember that there was more activity in the past.	16:01
+bartjol	mmm, that isn good	16:01
kimd	No. Not at all.	16:02
+bartjol	I am skipping t�s today	16:02
kimd	That's all right. I can leave them out as well if you prefer.	16:02
+bartjol	no, thanks	16:03
kimd	Btw, I have a dutch colleague at Novartis. Very nice guy.	16:03
+bartjol	like most of us :)	16:03
kimd	Need to go for a beer with him.	16:03
kimd	Of course!	16:03
+bartjol	dutch guys and beer go very well together	16:04
kimd	That was my impression, too. I am still hoping to be able making a trip to the Netherlands this summer.	16:04
+bartjol	well, if you happen to come near Delft, let us know	16:05
kimd	I have a friend living there. I certainly would not pass.	16:06
kimd	I also have to pay a round for the two gooeys.	16:06
kimd	My daughter loves them by the way.	16:06
kimd	I am only worried since they were made in China. I hope the dyes are not too toxic.	16:07
+bartjol	oh	16:07
+bartjol	mmm	16:07
+bartjol	well, I don chew on them, but your daughter might	16:07
kimd	She will. But I am sure she will also survive.	16:07
+bartjol	oooh, interesting mail: I'm an orphan having $3,200,000 USD with a private trust company for safe keeping	16:08
kimd	Lucky you. That would mean no more work for procolix!	16:08
kimd	Now you can dedicate yourself full time to webgui development.	16:08
kimd	Congratulations!	16:09
+bartjol	oooh, cool	16:09
+bartjol	mmm, back to work	16:09
kimd	Yeah! Do something...	16:10
kimd	Hey, I just discovered the example image feature for templates. That is cool! Great work whoever has done it!	16:12
kimd	Someone online having experience with the "Add attachments" functionality in templates?	16:15
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+perlDreamer	bopbop, did you see the Shortcut changes in the 7.9 release yesterday?	17:49
@bopbop	no, but I'll run out and take a look	17:50
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kimd	pearlDreamer, thanks for fixing my testing code!	17:58
+perlDreamer	you're welcome, kimd	17:59
+perlDreamer	I've done the same thing	17:59
+perlDreamer	it's very frustrating when the test works "here", but not at some else's "here"	17:59
kimd	Oh, did it throw an error on your machine?	18:00
kimd	Well, must have. Otherwise you probably would not have noticed.	18:00
+perlDreamer	that particular test failed	18:00
+perlDreamer	because the order was different	18:01
+perlDreamer	so I tried it on a VM, and it was different again	18:01
kimd	Very interesting though. I wonder what is influencing file order on different machines.	18:01
+perlDreamer	No idea.	18:02
+perlDreamer	It's the order that the archive gets unpacked	18:02
kimd	That is what I would have thought.	18:02
kimd	And that should result in the same order when using the same unzip binary. Shouldn't it?	18:02
+perlDreamer	I would have thought so, but obviously it isn't	18:03
kimd	Well, doesn't matter. Most people will go with alphabetical sorting anyway.	18:03
kimd	Btw, I forgot to include a package in one of the patches. Did you see my note?	18:04
+perlDreamer	no	18:04
+perlDreamer	is it attached to one of the RFE's?	18:04
kimd	Yes. One moment, please...	18:05
kimd	It is here: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11517	18:05
+perlDreamer	how will the system work without that template, kimd?	18:06
kimd	The radio button list for sorting is missing. That's all.	18:07
kimd	It's an update. Not a new template.	18:07
+perlDreamer	Can you please open a bug for that? To let people know that the new ordering won't work until 7.9.6?	18:07
kimd	Will do.	18:07
+perlDreamer	Thanks!	18:12
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+perlDreamer	morning, preaction	18:20
@preaction	good morning perlDreamer!	18:20
kimd	morning, preaction :-)	18:20
+perlDreamer	preaction, if static navigations are so cool, should we RFE them into the core?	18:21
+perlDreamer	by adding a cache timeout field to the nav?	18:21
+perlDreamer	and maybe a "cache only for Visitor" boolean	18:21
@preaction	won't work, period. think macros, think permissions, think IP-based groups, scratch-based groups	18:21
@preaction	it's a very limited use-case	18:21
* perlDreamer hates IP-based groups and scratch based gropus		18:22
@preaction	yeah, tell me about it.	18:22
+perlDreamer	well, first, they're a horrible hack into the Group	18:22
+perlDreamer	they should be done through some other authentication method	18:22
+perlDreamer	they're hacky	18:22
+perlDreamer	and those scratch variables stay around forever	18:22
+perlDreamer	you never know when the IP addresses are going to change	18:23
@preaction	they predate pluggable auth probably	18:23
+perlDreamer	kimd, you rock!	18:23
kimd	Why is that?	18:23
+perlDreamer	for hacking on the Gallery	18:23
+perlDreamer	for suggesting that people adopt assets	18:24
+perlDreamer	for writing tests for your RFEs	18:24
+perlDreamer	for following up on things to make sure they get done	18:24
+perlDreamer	for translating WebGUI into German	18:24
kimd	Ooh. That is a long list.	18:24
kimd	Thank you, too. Basically for a lot more than that.	18:24
kimd	The "adopt an asset" thing wasn't that successful, was it?	18:25
kimd	Not a single reply. I have to say that I am quite disappointed.	18:25
@preaction	you tried, and i applaud your attempt, but trying to whip up the troops around here is pretty much null program	18:25
kimd	It has become quite silent in the forum. Or is that just my impression.	18:26
kimd	Sad but true. I really wonder where all the users have gone.	18:26
@preaction	no, i agree. there were a few projects i was working on that people seemed excited about but now that i need their help (that they agreed to) they're nowhere	18:26
kimd	Hm. I hope there will be better times. I am getting more excited about webgui every day.	18:27
+perlDreamer	we should try and recruit martien	18:27
+perlDreamer	he's very involved with WebGUI	18:27
+perlDreamer	we just need to find the projects that motivate him	18:27
kimd	Seems so. But he is not a team player.	18:27
@preaction	yeah, i feel bad i keep killing his i18n dreams, but they're just not feasible as he describes them	18:27
+perlDreamer	then we need to find another one	18:28
kimd	Don't worry. He will get over it.	18:28
+perlDreamer	maybe this WAI thing now	18:28
kimd	WAI?	18:28
+perlDreamer	small, targeted bugs with fixes would be great	18:28
+perlDreamer	Web Accessability Initiative	18:28
+perlDreamer	making sure that web pages are usable by people with disabilities	18:28
kimd	I see. You think Martien would be interested in taking over?	18:29
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd3cd81f / (2 files in 2 dirs): Upgrade the template for adding an archive to handle sorting order. Fixes bug #11577 - http://bit.ly/9M9Hxm	18:30
kimd	I really don't want to badmouth. But when I was trying to build up a German community, Martien and Klaus both let me down.	18:30
+perlDreamer	I don't know. he seems at least interested in contributing	18:30
kimd	My impression is that they are rather into their own business.	18:30
kimd	Is he contributing?	18:30
+perlDreamer	sure	18:30
+perlDreamer	forum postings	18:30
+perlDreamer	RFEs	18:31
+perlDreamer	Bazaar items	18:31
+perlDreamer	bugs	18:31
kimd	That is true. I know that he is trying to build his own German community page.	18:31
kimd	It is here: http://www.webgui-professional.de/	18:31
kimd	He preferred that instead of internationalizing webgui.org	18:32
+perlDreamer	his ideas for user-level i18n weren't accepted, so maybe he decided to go that route instead?	18:32
kimd	Not sure. I really do not understand him. We had some discussions on the German board and never came to an agreement.	18:33
kimd	It is a pitty.	18:33
+perlDreamer	definitely	18:34
kimd	It would be so much more effective to pull on the same rope.	18:34
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re03f754 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix the name of the ConvertUTCToTZ macro in config files. Fixes bug #11576. - http://bit.ly/b8KuBB	18:38
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1d08edf / (4 files in 3 dirs): Fix the name of the ConvertUTCToTZ macro in config files. Fixes bug #11576. - http://bit.ly/9CYuq9	18:40
+perlDreamer	kimd, for your next volunteer milestone, we need you to recruit a French volunteer for translating and promoting WebGUI	18:42
kimd	Maybe not all that difficult. I am living right next to the French border. And I have lots of French colleagues.	18:43
kimd	Now I only need to find a web enthusiast.	18:43
kimd	perlDreamer, preaction: What about the template working group? Any progress there? It seems to me that all the complicated templates have not been touched yet.	18:46
+perlDreamer	they've started with the basics	18:46
+perlDreamer	Article, Navigation	18:46
+perlDreamer	then they did styles	18:46
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure what their current status is	18:46
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kimd	But they are still active, are they?	18:48
+perlDreamer	oh yes	18:48
+perlDreamer	maybe we could ask patspam about TWG status?	18:48
* perlDreamer mutters the arcane words that wake patspam up from his long slumber		18:48
kimd	It seems you need to do your magic again.	18:49
* perlDreamer must be out of magic		18:49
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@khenn	So	18:51
@khenn	I was thinking about it	18:51
@khenn	and I ran it by doug	18:51
@khenn	and I think I figured out a way to fix the slowness issue with Navigations	18:52
@khenn	The only real reason we need to instantiate each asset in navigations is to check permissions	18:52
+perlDreamer	khenn, after the Group thing, I'm all over your anti-slowness campaign	18:52
@khenn	heh	18:52
@khenn	and instantiating each asset is what slows the thing down	18:53
+perlDreamer	that and making 8000 template variables for each asset	18:53
@khenn	and the reason we have to instantiate to check permissions is because every asset can have it's own "canView" method	18:53
@khenn	so	18:53
@khenn	but most assets do not have this method	18:53
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@khenn	and they call the default	18:54
@khenn	so I ran this idea by Doug and he thinks it will work	18:54
@khenn	what if, instead of instantiating every asset	18:54
@khenn	we instantiate the "base asset"	18:54
@khenn	the root asset of the nav	18:55
@khenn	call Lineage on that asset to get the children / descendants	18:55
@khenn	loop over the descendants, but instead of instantiating each one	18:55
@khenn	check the class itself for two things	18:55
@khenn	1) do I inherit directly from Wobject or from Asset	18:55
@khenn	2) do I have my own canView method	18:56
@khenn	if both of those are false	18:56
@khenn	don't bother instantiating	18:56
@khenn	just call the new isInGroup for groupIdView and groupIdEdit	18:56
@khenn	or check that the user is the owner	18:56
+perlDreamer	how do you know if the class has an overridden canView method?	18:56
@khenn	that's (2)	18:56
@preaction	*{$class."::canView"}	18:56
@khenn	you only check the class itself	18:57
@khenn	you don't check any of it's superclasses	18:57
@preaction	probably need a "no strict 'refs';" before that	18:57
+perlDreamer	symbol walking can be slow	18:57
@khenn	so you are simply checking the class for that method specifically	18:57
@preaction	you're not walking, you're just checking the one class	18:57
@khenn	yeah you are just checking for the existence of 1 class	18:57
@preaction	but of course we'd need benchmarks	18:57
@khenn	so I think that will work	18:58
+perlDreamer	it's very similar to the code that Haarg yarded out of International, that sped it up so much	18:58
@khenn	yeah	18:58
+perlDreamer	even just poking in there is slow, let alone walking	18:58
@khenn	the problem is I don't have the time to do it	18:58
@khenn	so is anyone willing to take on this side project?	18:58
@preaction	the real question is: Is a symbol table lookup faster or slower than 30+ calls to $i18n->get	18:59
@preaction	and the lookup itself could be cached	19:00
@preaction	but the call to definition() could not be	19:00
+perlDreamer	how will it scale to Moose?	19:00
@preaction	moose doesn't have the definition problem	19:00
+perlDreamer	so it's fast enough that we don't need this speed-up	19:01
@preaction	well, maybe not this particular one	19:01
@preaction	patspam said he could squeek out a few thousand requests per second more than on webgui 7	19:01
+perlDreamer	I know I'm a big downer today	19:03
+perlDreamer	but I'll believe those numbers better when wg8 actually works ;)	19:03
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r93bbe64 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm): The edit stamp should contain the name of the user who edited the post, not the original poster. Fixes bug #11578. - http://bit.ly/cVbgkF	19:15
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7608200 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm): The edit stamp should contain the name of the user who edited the post, not the original poster. Fixes bug #11578. - http://bit.ly/bDgnj5	19:15
+perlDreamer	bbiab	19:43
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@preaction	what do i need to do to get the 32-bit WRE to work on a 64-bit system?	20:21
@preaction	i'm trying to install Bundle::CPAN and it's giving me errors: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64	20:22
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@preaction	figured it out. i need "-arch x86" in my CCFLAGS	20:25
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@preaction	nope. that doesn't work unless i build all the modules by hand it seems...	20:30
+perlDreamer	can you throw that into a CCFLAGS env variable or something that the makefiles will pick up automatically?	20:31
@preaction	tried that	20:31
kimd	I am having a search problem here. Someone familiar with WebGUI::Search?	21:00
kimd	What I would like to do is include the "location" field in gallery searches.	21:00
kimd	If I understand correctly, the Photo table is joined into queries via the joinClass parameter. Correct?	21:01
kimd	So why can't I just add the following to the where clause: $where .= q{ AND Photo.location LIKE }	21:01
kimd	. $db->quote( '%' . $form->get("location") . '%' )	21:01
kimd	The search always returns nothing.	21:02
kimd	No one having a clue?	21:05
+perlDreamer	kimd, each asset has a method for adding in new data fields	21:05
+perlDreamer	it's called, something Index...?	21:05
+perlDreamer	indexContent	21:06
+perlDreamer	any asset that wants to add in more data should subclass that method	21:06
+perlDreamer	and add fields to it	21:06
kimd	The field is already there. I only want to search it.	21:06
+perlDreamer	right, but the data isn't in the search index	21:06
+perlDreamer	have a peek at WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm, sub indexContent	21:07
kimd	Ok. I will.	21:07
+perlDreamer	the Story asset adds the headline, byline, highlights, and more to the search index	21:07
+perlDreamer	so you can't search only by location using WebGUI::Search	21:07
+perlDreamer	you can only add the location fields to it	21:07
+perlDreamer	so that searches will be able to consider that field (in addition to everything else)	21:08
kimd	Are you sure? If I understand the code correctly, WebGUI::Search can join in class tables.	21:08
kimd	That would allow me to search columns directly by amending the where clause.	21:09
kimd	That is exactly how the title is searched for, for example.	21:09
kimd	Just that the title is in assetIndex	21:09
kimd	No, assetData.	21:09
kimd	The following code is used:	21:10
kimd	if ( $form->get("title") ) {	21:10
kimd	$where .= q{ AND assetData.title LIKE }	21:10
kimd	. $db->quote( '%' . $form->get("title") . '%' )	21:10
kimd	;	21:10
kimd	}	21:10
kimd	Shouldn't that work for the location as well?	21:10
+perlDreamer	where is that code, kimd?	21:13
kimd	It is in the www_search method of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Gallery	21:13
kimd	Strange. I checked the join clause constructed by WebGUI::Search. The Photo tabled is joined in via 'left join Photo on assetData.assetId=Photo.assetId and assetData.revisionDate=Photo.revisionDate'.	21:23
+perlDreamer	that looks right to me	21:24
kimd	I have also checked the Photo.location column in the database. It contains the keywords I am searching for.	21:25
+perlDreamer	kimd, I'd love to see some pasted code after I come back from lunch, if you're still awake then	21:40
kimd	Sounds good. Hurry up ;-)	21:41
+perlDreamer	humph	21:43
+perlDreamer	rushing digestion could damage my fine code fixing skills	21:43
+perlDreamer	we don't want that, do we?	21:43
kimd	I would risk it :-P	21:48
@khenn	kimd you can join classes to the search	22:10
kimd	That is what I am doing. The joinClass paramter should do this job.	22:10
kimd	In addition, I have added "columns => ['Photo.location']" as a rule.	22:11
@khenn	yes	22:11
@khenn	is it working?	22:11
kimd	No.	22:11
kimd	I still get an empty result set.	22:11
kimd	I have checked the query constructed by WebGUI::Search.	22:11
kimd	It seems to be fine to me.	22:11
@khenn	pastebin the query	22:12
kimd	http://webgui.pastebin.com/uscFhaLh	22:13
kimd	I have reformatted for better understanding.	22:13
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kimd	khenn, where you able to find a bug?	22:47
@khenn	oh sorry	22:48
@khenn	I didn't see it pasted	22:48
@khenn	I'll take a look quick	22:48
@khenn	you can't join the second table	22:48
@khenn	it won't work	22:48
@khenn	it's left joining Gallery Album and then Photo	22:49
@khenn	they both can't have the same assetId	22:49
@khenn	and thus that join won't work	22:49
@khenn	you can only join one or the other	22:50
kimd	Ok. But that is what was in the code already.	22:50
+perlDreamer	where, kimd?	22:50
kimd	The join clauses are automatically generated.	22:50
kimd	http://webgui.pastebin.com/wYRT5rQF	22:50
kimd	That is my version of the www_view method.	22:51
kimd	I mean www_search method.	22:51
kimd	But the original one is simiar.	22:51
@khenn	yes	22:51
@khenn	you can't join that other table	22:51
@khenn	even though it lets you do it	22:51
kimd	Join clauses get auto-generated by WebGUI::Search due to the joinClass parameter	22:51
@khenn	try instead	22:51
@khenn	to not join either	22:51
@khenn	and search all the assets with lineage starting with the lineage of the gallery	22:52
@khenn	asset	22:52
kimd	?	22:52
@khenn	so tell it to search all the assets beneath the root that have a lineage staring with 'root_lineage%'	22:52
+perlDreamer	doesn't that say that Gallery.pm's www_search doesn't work, and that it's a bug?	22:52
@khenn	and className in ('WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::GalleryAlbum','WebGUI::Asset::File::GalleryFile::Photo' )	22:52
kimd	That is what it's doing as far as I understand.	22:52
@khenn	it is	22:53
@khenn	but it's only searching Galleries	22:53
@khenn	it's not searching photos	22:53
kimd	No. It's searching both.	22:53
kimd	Definitely.	22:53
kimd	I get both if I search by date for example.	22:53
kimd	Only searching by location does not work so far.	22:53
@khenn	hmm	22:54
@khenn	seems to me that the left join on Photos wouldn't return anything	22:54
kimd	But as you said, the reason is probably that joining does not work.	22:54
@khenn	what was the original doing?	22:54
@khenn	was it also joining Photos?	22:54
kimd	Yes.	22:55
+perlDreamer	kimd, please try to setup a simple gallery, with two albums and some photos	22:55
kimd	Responsible code is here:	22:55
kimd	#	22:55
kimd	my $p	22:55
kimd	#	22:55
kimd	= $self->getSearchPaginator( {	22:55
kimd	#	22:55
kimd	url => $url,	22:55
kimd	#	22:55
kimd	keywords => $keywords,	22:55
kimd	#	22:55
kimd	where => $where,	22:55
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kimd	#	22:55
kimd	classes => $classes,	22:55
kimd	#	22:55
+perlDreamer	kimd, stop!	22:55
kimd	joinClass => $classes,	22:55
kimd	#	22:55
kimd	columns => $columns,	22:56
+perlDreamer	the channel will kick you out	22:56
kimd	#	22:56
kimd	creationDate => $creationDate,	22:56
kimd	#	22:56
kimd	} );	22:56
kimd	Oh.	22:56
kimd	pearlDreamer, I have a test gallery in place.	22:56
kimd	What do you want me to do?	22:56
+perlDreamer	make sure the photos have titles, and descriptions	22:56
+perlDreamer	and try a search	22:56
+perlDreamer	if the seach fails, we have a bug to fix	22:56
+perlDreamer	if it works, we need to understand why	22:56
kimd	No. The search works fine.	22:56
+perlDreamer	and it returns photos?	22:57
kimd	Yes. It does.	22:57
kimd	And it returns albums.	22:57
kimd	No problem at all.	22:57
@khenn	could this be the culprit?	22:57
@khenn	and (creationDate between ? and ?)	22:57
kimd	Only if try to search Photo.location I get an empty result set.	22:57
kimd	I don't think so. Dates get auto-generated.	22:58
kimd	If you leave all other fields empty the whole gallery content is returned.	22:58
kimd	And that works perfectly.	22:58
@khenn	start taking stuff out of the where clause until it works I guess	22:58
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kimd	Ok. I will play with it.	22:59
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kimd	Hm. If I search for photos exclusively, only the Photo table gets joined. Still the result set is empty.	23:03
kimd	Could it be due to linking of revisionDates?	23:04
kimd	In the join clause we have 'left join Photo on assetData.assetId=Photo.assetId and assetData.revisionDate=Photo.revisionDate'	23:04
@khenn	take that out of the join and see what happens	23:05
@khenn	perhaps	23:05
kimd	In the where clause the revisionDate of assetData is limited to the most recent revision.	23:05
kimd	I can't that easily.	23:05
@khenn	I still think the way I suggested will work	23:05
@khenn	take all the joins off	23:05
kimd	As I said, it is auto-generated by WebGUI::Search.	23:05
kimd	I only pass in rules.	23:05
@khenn	so it's just joining asset and assetData	23:06
@khenn	give it a lineage like 'root_lineage%'	23:06
kimd	That is the default.	23:06
kimd	The lineage is set.	23:06
@khenn	and className in ('WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::GalleryAlbum','WebGUI::Asset::File::GalleryFile::Photo' )	23:06
@khenn	ok	23:06
kimd	That happens in getSearchPaginator	23:07
@khenn	so perhaps you just need to pass in that className filter	23:07
kimd	That is done by setting the class rule for WebGUI::Search	23:07
@khenn	I guess I'd really need to tinker with it to figure it out	23:07
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kimd	pearlDreamer, where is indexContent defined for the first time? Is that in WebGUI::Asset?	23:16
+perlDreamer	yes	23:17
kimd	Ok. So if Gallery does not have its own indexContent method it is inherited from there.	23:17
kimd	I believe you are right that I need to add the location to keywords.	23:18
+perlDreamer	I think it's the right thing to do	23:18
kimd	If I understand the query correctly, it is looking for both: match of the location and the keywords.	23:18
kimd	That means the location must be in the keywords as well.	23:18
kimd	Otherwise the result set will be empty.	23:19
kimd	I am going to try that.	23:19
kimd	pearlDreamer, when is indexContent called at run time?	23:36
+perlDreamer	it's called in commit	23:36
kimd	I have added the following to WebGUI::Asset::File::GalleryFile::Photo:	23:36
kimd	sub indexContent {	23:37
kimd	my $self = shift;	23:37
kimd	my $indexer = $self->SUPER::indexContent;	23:37
kimd	$indexer->addKeywords($self->get("location"));	23:37
kimd	}	23:37
kimd	Still, I cannot see the location in keywords in the database.	23:37
+perlDreamer	restarted the web server?	23:38
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kimd	No. Do I have to?	23:38
kimd	Ah. Of course!	23:39
+perlDreamer	:)	23:39
kimd	It is late already.	23:39
+perlDreamer	you should take a break, have some wine	23:39
+perlDreamer	kiss your child on the forehead	23:39
+perlDreamer	snuggle up to the wife, and go at it again tomorrow	23:39
kimd	They are both not here.	23:41
kimd	And wine is not an option since I am still feeling a bit sick. I virus caught me yesterday.	23:42
kimd	Hm. The location is still not included. I don't get it.	23:42
kimd	Ok. I am giving up for today. But this won't let me sleep anyway.	23:47
kimd	pearlDreamer, one last question:	23:47
+perlDreamer	sir?	23:47
kimd	Is it possible that indexContent in WebGUI::Asset::File::GalleryFile::Photo does not get called for some reason?	23:48
kimd	Would WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Gallery have to call it?	23:48
+perlDreamer	if Photo does not inherit commit from Asset.pm, then it is possible that it is not indexing its photos	23:48
+perlDreamer	but you have said that photos work in a search	23:48
+perlDreamer	so I don't think that's it	23:49
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kimd	Yes. But I only see the default keywords.	23:49
kimd	Wait a moment. In Story we have 'my $indexer = $self->next::method();'	23:52
kimd	In File it is 'my $indexer = $self->SUPER::indexContent;'	23:52
kimd	Does that mean anything?	23:52
+perlDreamer	it has to do with how it inherits classes	23:53
+perlDreamer	Story uses Class::C3	23:53
+perlDreamer	and File does not	23:53
kimd	Hm. I am going to bed. Will not solve it tonight, anyway.	23:54
kimd	Thanks for all the help.	23:54
kimd	Good night everyone!	23:54
scrottie1	night kimd	23:55
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+perlDreamer	time to go pick up the kids	01:45
+perlDreamer	bbiaw	01:45
* scrottie1 nods		01:46
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* perlDreamer is back		02:17
+perlDreamer	scrottie1, do you have all your bits in a row now?	02:26
scrottie1	all of my bits?	02:27
scrottie1	I fixed a trivial bug and pushed it to a WebGUI8 fork on github.	02:27
scrottie1	along with other muddlings around	02:27
+perlDreamer	cool!	02:28
scrottie1	but mostly I'm clocked out, waiting for backups to finish, and I'm going to roll the apt dice and see if I can get X to stop crashing so damn much	02:28
scrottie1	I failed to activate my Cricket CDMA data modem. Cricket says it's too old. bah.	02:28
scrottie1	I got this MiFi like device and everything so I wouldn't have to try to get it to work with Linux.	02:29
scrottie1	I should probably be pulling from your branch too..	02:39
+perlDreamer	I'm lazy, and I work directly in the WebGUI8 branch	02:41
+perlDreamer	if I have a lot of work to do, I make a small private branch, and then merge it in	02:41
+perlDreamer	but I don't do that very often	02:41
scrottie1	that's cool. as long as I'm pulling from where I should be pulling from.	02:42
* perlDreamer is out for the night, most likely		03:10
scrottie1	cool	03:10
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:36
Haarg	morning	16:36
+bartjol	howdy	16:37
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@khenn	morning	17:42
@khenn	=)	17:42
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scrottie1	I'm tempted to just do no warnings 'UNIVERSAL::isa'. would that be bad?	19:40
scrottie1	I'd be reluctant to fix the UNIVERSAL::isa($mayberef, 'Whatever') calls and UNIVERSAL::isa does its job fine making those work for overriden isa-s. modules with more black magic don't emit smoke.	19:42
@preaction	is it us calling universal or some of our prereqs?	19:46
+perlDreamer	it's Test::Deep	19:47
+perlDreamer	I think	19:47
scrottie1	ack 'UNIVERSAL::isa' => nottin'	19:48
@preaction	then we can safely ignore it. would setting no warnings 'UNIVSERAL::isa' in our test scripts even fix it? wouldn't you have to inject it into Test::Deep's scope?	19:49
@preaction	scrottie1: did you figure out if the failing test is a bad test or bad code?	19:50
scrottie1	nope, can't turn off warnings for them. Had to try that though.	19:51
scrottie1	well, I didn't change the test in the case of FormBuilder to see if that one change was all that was needed, but the test and code don't match.	19:52
scrottie1	I don't know enough about the intentions there to know if either or which could be considered bad.	19:52
+perlDreamer	WebGUI has always accepted lower case aliases for form fields	19:53
@preaction	formbuilder should be avoided right now. i've got some major changes in another branch i'm waiting to merge	19:53
+perlDreamer	and all the tests will pass before the merge? ;)	19:54
scrottie1	hrm. I could make the thing scan case insensitively but is there no point?	19:54
@preaction	yes, that's what i'm waiting for. had to do some other work but now i'm back on writing more tests and making them pass. going for 90+ coverage	19:54
+perlDreamer	awesome	19:55
scrottie1	I could also investigate plugin systems but those tend to be bulky and come with problems of their own.	19:55
+perlDreamer	scrottie1, let's avoid the formbuilder stuff for now	19:55
scrottie1	wait, all of the test in which branch?	19:55
@preaction	scrottie1: no point. i want people to STOP using that damned "feature". i want them to use full class names or uppercase	19:55
@preaction	in my working copy	19:55
scrottie1	the PGSI stuff?	19:55
@preaction	no, i'm working on Asset->getEditForm, www_edit, and the Admin Console	19:56
scrottie1	cool. just curious.	19:56
@preaction	i'm working on the biggest hangup to understanding webgui ;) i intend to break just about everything	19:57
scrottie1	preaction++	19:57
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+patspam	hmm just had to clear the cache (via admin console) on a production site so that a user would show up in the correct group	20:47
+patspam	that should never have to happen right?	20:47
+patspam	my custom code does its group manipulation via addToGroups and deleteFromGroups, which both call uncache()	20:48
+perlDreamer	patspam: that's correct	20:51
+perlDreamer	which version is it running?	20:51
+patspam	7.7.21	20:51
+patspam	can you recall any caching bugs that have been fixed in the last few months?	20:52
+perlDreamer	no	20:52
+perlDreamer	the only caching bugs I've seen are due to permission problems on the cache directory	20:52
+perlDreamer	but you used the admin console to clear it, so that shouldn't be a problem	20:52
+patspam	Group cache slip��(#11574) doesn't appear to be related (I'm not using group expiry)	20:53
+perlDreamer	no, and it's only on the back end, not the front end of joining a group	20:53
+patspam	getting slammed with these sorts of bugs at the moment, probably related to the user base exceeding 5k	20:55
@preaction	but there were Group bugs fixed recently	20:57
@preaction	you might want to upgrade for those, including huge performance gains (like, astronomical)	20:58
+perlDreamer	patspam, were the groups in question using IP or scratch	20:58
+patspam	pd: no	20:59
+perlDreamer	those were the recent Group bugs	20:59
+perlDreamer	hm	20:59
+patspam	preaction: are those performance improvements in stable yet?	20:59
+perlDreamer	no, just beta	20:59
+patspam	yeah ok, will have to wait a bit for that.. but can't wait to see if it speeds up things	20:59
+patspam	sounded really good	21:00
+perlDreamer	we had to reevaluate some of the numbers due to a wonky script	21:00
@preaction	ask frodwith how he merged the changes back to 7.x perhaps?	21:00
+perlDreamer	but it's still integer factors faster	21:00
@frodwith	sleepy grunt uh wha?	21:00
@preaction	the new method, without cache, is faster than the old method with cache	21:00
@preaction	frodwith: did you get the new group performance stuff ported to ancient webgui versions?	21:01
@frodwith	working on that right now actually	21:01
+patspam	frodwith++	21:01
@preaction	i will be very interested in knowing how you did it once it's done	21:01
@frodwith	well so far I've just got done reviewing the patch to make sure I understand it	21:02
@preaction	no rush, no worries, just blog-worthy	21:02
@frodwith	git diff v7.5.29 master -- lib/WebGUI/User.pm, edit edit edit, patched!	21:03
@frodwith	i should think	21:03
+perlDreamer	there are also changes to Group	21:04
@frodwith	well, yes	21:04
@frodwith	i meant in general	21:04
+perlDreamer	and the tests, but for a production site you won't need those	21:04
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@frodwith	that peer fellow is a real /jerk/	21:05
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@preaction	just in time	21:26
CIA-104	webgui: kimd master * r77e331a / (6 files in 6 dirs): Added more owner information to the gallery (RFE 9774) - http://bit.ly/d0rAdf	21:26
+perlDreamer	test suite	21:26
@preaction	ran it	21:26
kimd	nice	21:27
kimd	Now that you are both there - may I bug you with questions again?	21:27
+perlDreamer	sure, but I have to leave for a while	21:27
+perlDreamer	I'll be back later today	21:28
+perlDreamer	I think	21:28
kimd	preaction?	21:28
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@preaction	what? you haven't asked the question yet	21:28
kimd	No. Just wanted to check whether you are available :-)	21:28
kimd	I found out that indexContent does not get executed upon committal when added to Gallery::Asset::File::GalleryFile or Gallery::Asset::File::GalleryFile::Photo.	21:29
kimd	The last indexContent sub that seems to get executed is that of WebGUI::Asset::File.	21:29
kimd	Do you have an idea why?	21:29
@preaction	nope. did you make sure to call the SUPER::indexContent? are you trying in a test script?	21:32
@preaction	if you're in a test script you can use the Perl debugger to figure thigns out (or you can just litter the place with warn "1", warn "2", warn "3" etc...	21:33
kimd	I copied the indexContent method of WebGUI::Asset::File, removed the $indexer->addFile call and inserted $indexer->addKeywords("..."); instead.	21:35
kimd	I am adding the class names as markers in each of the three classes.	21:36
kimd	I can see the 'WebGUI::Asset::File" appear in index keywords when checking in the database.	21:36
kimd	That is how I know that the other indexContent methods do not get called.	21:37
kimd	Strange, isn't it? You would expect that execution would start with the top-level class and then go down all the inheritance tree.	21:37
kimd	Or do I have the wrong idea of perl OO?	21:38
@preaction	no, it does top-down, but you're calling the super first, before you add your keywords	21:38
@preaction	so, WebGUI::Asset::File would appear first (after WebGUI::Asset->indexContent does its thing)	21:39
kimd	Hah! And that is exactly the reason. indexContent of WebGUI::Asset::File does not return the indexer! You are a genius!!	21:40
kimd	So, now let's find the culprit. Who wrote WebGUI::Asset::File?	21:41
@preaction	everyone, it doesn't matter who did it	21:44
kimd	Just kidding.	21:44
kimd	Cool! It's really working now. Thanks a lot.	21:46
kimd	Would it be Ok to fix this bug as part of the patch implementing RFE 11504?	21:47
@preaction	yes	21:47
kimd	Or do we need a bug report + separate fix for completeness?	21:47
kimd	I mean, so that it appears in the log?	21:47
kimd	Still yes?	21:47
@preaction	still yes. it's not a problem until you try to add the RFE	21:47
kimd	I see. Will do it then.	21:48
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dionak	has anyone seen lauralyn around lately? i have forgotten her irc nick	22:02
@preaction	elnino	22:03
dionak	ah, thanks.	22:03
@preaction	and no, she's been rather absent as of the last few weeks/months	22:03
dionak	hm. know of any other skilled webgui freelancers?	22:03
@preaction	perlDreamer, kimd, patspam	22:05
kimd	here	22:05
@preaction	otherwise you're pretty limited these days	22:05
@preaction	of course, we're always available as well	22:05
@preaction	not sure, kimd do you do webgui professionally or just as a hobby?	22:05
kimd	ah, I am not a freelance though.	22:06
kimd	Not enough time. I also would have to ask my employer.	22:06
kimd	And I do not think that my supervisor would agree.	22:06
@preaction	perhaps one of the dutch teams would help dionak?	22:06
kimd	Is it something quick? Would it be of general use?	22:07
dionak	i'm looking for someone to help develop templates in the near future. nothing immediate	22:07
dionak	pretty straight-forward	22:07
kimd	Ok. Sounds like a lot of work.	22:07
kimd	What about bartjol? Is he still working full-time for procolix?	22:08
dionak	typically, it's not. we have html for a site and it gets converted into a theme	22:08
dionak	ok, i'll keep asking around. tks!	22:08
kimd	You could also ask klaus or martien. They both freelance.	22:08
dionak	ok, great.	22:09
kimd	I should have their email addresses.	22:09
kimd	Wait. I am going to search them for you.	22:09
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Haarg	preaction, you have a chance to look at my upgrades stuff?	22:24
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@preaction	Haarg: doing so now	22:36
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kimd	Is it possible to change the name of form fields via RFEs? Or is that prohibited for reasons of backward compatibility?	22:49
@preaction	backwards compatibility	22:49
kimd	Are you correcting my English? Or was that an answer?	22:49
@preaction	that's the answer	22:49
kimd	Not possible?	22:50
kimd	What about WebGUI 8?	22:50
@preaction	why?	22:50
kimd	In the Gallery we have form_keywords. But it is "tags" in the templates.	22:51
kimd	And keywords is misleading since we have keywords in the index as well.	22:51
@preaction	it will always be called keywords, because the API is called WebGUI::Keyword	22:51
kimd	Hm. But searching for keywords and searching for tags is not the same thing.	22:51
kimd	I find that very confusing.	22:52
kimd	I had to go through the code first before I was able to understand the difference.	22:52
@preaction	i don't. tags are user-entered keywords	22:52
@preaction	it's called tags only because that's what Flickr calls them and that's what the client wanted them to be called	22:52
@preaction	and calling them Tags everywhere conflicts with Version Tags	22:53
kimd	That's a good point.	22:53
kimd	What about userKeywords?	22:53
@preaction	worse	22:53
kimd	Don't get me wrong. I do not want to change that immediately.	22:53
kimd	But it would be good to have a distinction between user entered keywords and automatically generated index keywords.	22:54
kimd	still disagree?	22:54
@preaction	i don't know of any good alternatives, but i would be open to one if it were found.	22:56
@preaction	perhaps the problem is that Version Tags are called Version Tags	22:56
kimd	Hm. I will think about it.	22:56
kimd	preaction, do you think you can approve this RFE: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11571 ?	22:58
@preaction	yes, go ahead, in the manner stated (proceed=editParent)	22:58
kimd	Into WebGUI::Asset or only WebGUI::Asset::File::GalleryFile::Photo?	23:00
@preaction	into WebGUI::Asset. you can't easily override www_editSave	23:00
kimd	Alright.	23:01
kimd	One last question. Then you will have the rest of the day off :-)	23:01
kimd	There is no testing code for the Gallery asset. If I add a search feature, does that put me in charge to write it from scratch?	23:02
kimd	Gallery asset search function, I should say.	23:02
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@preaction	yes, just get as thorough as you can, doesn't have to be perfect just so long as what you added is tested	23:03
kimd	Ok. That will delay me a bit. Probably good exercise though.	23:04
kimd	Enjoy the rest of your day. Good night everyone!	23:04
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--- Day changed Fri May 21 2010
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+perlDreamer	I need to head out get the kiddos from school	00:11
+perlDreamer	be back in 30	00:11
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--- Log opened Fri May 21 01:58:33 2010
scrottie1	did you fix this thing I was looking at...?	01:58
+perlDreamer	were you looking at t/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration/getTemplateVariables.t ?	01:59
scrottie1	no, but I haven't stopped to look at that file or pull changes from you to see what you're talking about.	01:59
+perlDreamer	so, which thing were you looking at?	02:00
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rce8b1dc / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove an old database column from EMS mark 1. - http://bit.ly/axPvzR	02:01
@scrottie	asset keywords, but you listed a bunch of related things.	02:01
@scrottie	wasn't sure if that was one of them.	02:01
+perlDreamer	it isn't	02:01
@scrottie	just trying to put that statement into context before evaluating it.	02:02
+perlDreamer	If i came up with an idea related to Keywords, I'd tell you first	02:02
+perlDreamer	since we talked about it	02:02
+perlDreamer	especially before committing it	02:02
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r545fd1f / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove an old database column from EMS mark 1. - http://bit.ly/acyHV9	02:03
scrottie1	oh, heck, I can't hear you scrottie. we must be offline.	02:03
scrottie1	test?	02:03
@scrottie	yeah, except I said I was going afk to hide in a dark corner with the book ;)	02:03
+perlDreamer	not a problem	02:03
+perlDreamer	I know how to type really loud	02:04
@scrottie	heh	02:04
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r42015a3 / t/Asset/Wobject/EventManagementSystem.t : Update the test to ignore the old database column, and to add new properties returned by get. - http://bit.ly/dgz6Rf	02:06
+perlDreamer	47 failing tests and counting	02:06
+perlDreamer	time to make dinner	02:06
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@scrottie	okay, this stuff makes a little more sense now but I need to pick it up tomorrow... stepping out of the house tonight.	03:08
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SDuensin	Morning.	17:04
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Haarg	preaction, did you have any comments on the upgrades code?	19:04
@preaction	not yet, doing so now	19:07
@preaction	obvious one: documentation	19:12
Haarg	yeah	19:12
@preaction	especially answer "why", like "why need the mysql command line and can't use DBI"	19:13
@preaction	or "why should i use this method"	19:13
@preaction	do we need rm_lib? should an upgrade script ever delete a perl module?	19:16
Haarg	they do now	19:16
@preaction	i just remember back in 7.3 when i didn't delete the old EventsCalendar and it worked, but next version someone did and everything broke	19:17
@preaction	i mean, we overwrite modules all the time and that's fine, but why remo.	19:17
@preaction	oh, like Commerce	19:17
@preaction	which absolutely wouldn't work anymore at all	19:17
Haarg	it's mainly only a problem because we preload everything.	19:18
@preaction	which needs to go away	19:19
Haarg	yeah, the way it is done right now doesn't work out the best	19:20
Haarg	i wouldn't have a problem with getting rid of rm_lib - i was mainly just looking to add replacements for all of the things people do with current upgrades that are annoying or difficult to do.	19:29
@preaction	no, i was wrong, it's necessary	19:30
Haarg	aside from the docs (both for the upgrades api and the upgrade script instructions) is there anything else?	19:31
@preaction	the WebGUI::Upgrade::File::* don't seem to exist on github	19:31
@preaction	but i suspect they're just fine too	19:31
Haarg	http://github.com/haarg/webgui/tree/upgrades/lib/WebGUI/Upgrade/File/ ?	19:34
Haarg	the other code thing that needs to be dealt with is preloads. need to prevent this stuff from being loaded.	19:34
@preaction	yeah, i click on those files and they don't load	19:34
@preaction	"That page doesn't exist!"	19:34
Haarg	strange	19:35
Haarg	well, if it isn't obvious, txt and pod will display documentation and want for you to tell it to continue	19:35
Haarg	sql imports a complete sql script, wgpkg imports a package	19:36
@preaction	txt/pod will show up for every site?	19:36
Haarg	no, only once per upgrade	19:36
Haarg	there's a bit of code in WebGUI::Upgrade to deal with that	19:37
@preaction	and what about unattended upgrades? is there a flag to bypass them?	19:37
Haarg	http://gist.github.com/409059	19:37
Haarg	if you specify --quiet or if there is no terminal it won't prompt	19:38
Haarg	having a separate switch for unattended would probably be good as well though	19:38
Haarg	and possibly something for logging	19:38
+perlDreamer	yeah, logging!	19:39
@preaction	perhaps we could always make a var/upgrade.log	19:39
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Haarg	i kind of love and hate how the upgrade script cleanup works. it functions fine and mostly decouples WebGUI::Upgrade::Script from the rest, but it kind of relies on some non-obvious interactions between the two parts.	19:45
Trex___	Hi folks. I'm seeing an odd character encoding behavior that has me really puzzled. The encoding appears to change depending on not only whether I'm logged in or not, but also how I'm viewing a particular asset...	19:45
Trex___	I'd be curious what you think of this example:	19:46
Trex___	http://www.law.umn.edu/facultyprofiles/grosso.html#dX-lOokEgenQyKYN1zCL_A	19:46
Trex___	Note the name at the end of the first citation (under books): Fionnuala N� Aol�in	19:46
Trex___	Now compare that to the article that holds this content, when viewed by itself, without the page layout wrapper:	19:47
Trex___	http://www.law.umn.edu/facultyprofiles/grosso-publications.html#dX-lOokEgenQyKYN1zCL_A	19:47
@preaction	you're running 7.5. there were a lot of fixes to the UTF-8 problems in 7.6	19:47
Trex___	The name here correctly shows as Fionnuala N� Aol�in --- but the odd thing is that it shows correctly in either case when you are logged in.	19:47
Trex___	Heh. Oh? Well, that's good to know. I scanned the changelogs and didn't see anything that looked obvious for my specific problem, but I guess I was being too focused.	19:48
@preaction	Haarg would know more, he did them	19:49
@preaction	i still get completely confused by character encoding problems	19:49
Trex___	This is pulling data in from a legacy system connected in such a way that it would be pretty painful to test its behavior after upgrading.	19:49
scrottie1	umn.edu++	19:50
Trex___	You have an appreciation for the U of MN, scrottie1?	19:50
@preaction	Trex___: are you using database caching? it's possible the cache table isn't UTF-8?	19:50
Haarg	cache is all storable	19:51
Haarg	bytes	19:51
Haarg	utf8 shouldn't matter on the db side for it	19:51
Trex___	I'm not sure what is going on the cache end, but what I do know is that I can edit the citation and the edit will appear immediately, but the encoding issue will remain the same.	19:51
scrottie1	Trex___, went to school there, and worked there.	19:52
+perlDreamer	in the WRE, where does mysql log?	19:52
scrottie1	worked in JaWS, back when it was cool ;)	19:52
Haarg	in the mysql data directory	19:52
@preaction	perlDreamer: wre/var/mysqldata/`hostname`.err	19:52
+perlDreamer	err, heh	19:53
Trex___	scrottie1: that's cool. :) I'm in the Law School and we pretty much do everything our own way. I've met with other folks recently to talk up WebGUI, but there's a big Drupal community at the U that seems to draw everyone else in.	19:53
scrottie1	Trex___, you know David Naughtan in the library dept by any chance?	19:53
scrottie1	Trex___, and did you make Frozen Perl, by any other chance?	19:54
Trex___	preaction: thanks for the confirmation that there is likely an encoding issue that will likely go away if we ever get upgraded (as I really want). However, in the meantime I have a fix that will convert the special characters to HTML entities, which seems to avoid this problem.	19:55
Trex___	I wanted to bring it up here first to see if it was a known issue for our version.	19:55