WebGUI irc logs from: 2010-05.log

--- Log opened Sat May 01 00:00:02 2010
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rcb8c8da / (2 files in 2 dirs): Per item shipping. - http://bit.ly/cjR4ML	02:42
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0179930 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm : Give the perItem dropdowns the same class name. - http://bit.ly/9oWXbZ	02:45
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bsdwarrior2	What is the most common used/working os/distro for webgui? have been having trouble installing under freebsd	04:08
+perlDreamer	bsdwarrior2, most people use either a red hat-ish, or a debian-ish	04:22
+perlDreamer	a lot of the devs use Mac OS X	04:22
bsdwarrior2	i downloaded the freebsd binary and it bombs all over the place .specifically about config::json	04:22
+perlDreamer	hm, that's actually good news	04:23
+perlDreamer	the WRE does not contain EVERY module that WebGUI needs	04:23
+perlDreamer	but only those that were needed when it was last released	04:23
+perlDreamer	did you try running the testEnvironment.pl script, in /data/WebGUI/sbin?	04:23
+perlDreamer	pass it the --simpleReport switch to get a listing of what is out of data for the installed version of WebGUI	04:25
bsdwarrior2	dont have that script only have setenvironment.pl	04:25
+perlDreamer	do you have a /data/WebGUI directory?	04:25
bsdwarrior2	yes	04:25
+perlDreamer	and, inside it, there's a sbin sub-directory?	04:25
bsdwarrior2	yes	04:25
+perlDreamer	/data/WebGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl	04:25
+perlDreamer	that's what you want	04:26
+perlDreamer	you have to run it from that directory	04:26
+perlDreamer	it's kind of picky that way	04:26
bsdwarrior2	that file does not exist in wre-0.9.3-freebsd-6.2-ia32.tar.gz	04:27
bsdwarrior2	plus Im already running perl & mysql. I dont need to run that two times on my system. It almost seems like this software should be put in a vm.	04:28
+perlDreamer	you could run it in a vm	04:28
+perlDreamer	also, you don't have to run the WRE to use WebGUI	04:29
+perlDreamer	but it's very tightly integrated and tuned to work well	04:29
+perlDreamer	so it's either all or none	04:29
+perlDreamer	can't use just pieces of the WRE	04:29
bsdwarrior2	which distro is the most updated? debian, ubuntu?	04:30
+perlDreamer	neither, both?	04:31
+perlDreamer	they're all released as a set	04:31
+perlDreamer	for all platforms	04:31
+perlDreamer	you might want to check out these instructions for installing the WRE: http://www.webgui.org/wiki/wre-installation	04:32
+perlDreamer	there's also a wiki page for building the WRE on BSD	04:32
bsdwarrior2	well it dont work on freebsd 8.0 this does not seem very freebsd friendly. Will have to put this in a vm with linux. I can't have this software take over a production system. Dont mean to be a smart ass, thanks for the help	04:34
+perlDreamer	well, like I mentioned earlier, you don't have to use the WRE to use WebGUI	04:35
+perlDreamer	but as you will.	04:35
bsdwarrior2	the source still packages perl mysql,etc. what good does that do me?	04:36
+perlDreamer	that's the WRE source	04:38
+perlDreamer	try downloading the WebGUI source itself	04:38
bsdwarrior2	ok	04:38
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kimd	Morning preaction! Logging the channel? Or did you fall asleep in front of your computer?	10:29
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+perlDreamer	upgraded to Ubuntu 10.4	19:47
+perlDreamer	not too shabby	19:47
+perlDreamer	but the debian webgui package was a big pain	19:47
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--- Day changed Sun May 02 2010
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r69a2710 / t/Shop/TaxDriver/EU.t : Update the EU tax test for new Cart code. - http://bit.ly/cCGxR9	08:57
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd2d50d8 / lib/WebGUI/Content/Wizard.pm : POD for Content/Wizard - http://bit.ly/cFymaL	09:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3eb479c / lib/WebGUI/Content/Setup.pm : Fix module usage. - http://bit.ly/cwlPvs	09:26
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb2cf1cc / docs/upgrades/packages-7.9.4/greenportal.wgpkg : Fix bad extras in the greenportal package. - http://bit.ly/cieVnH	09:30
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rcbad514 / (3 files): Fix bad gateway macros in the new style templates. - http://bit.ly/9GYKNm	09:35
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6a77eb0 / docs/upgrades/packages-7.9.4/greenportal.wgpkg : Fix bad extras macros in the greenportal style. - http://bit.ly/cq126J	09:37
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r884e61a / lib/WebGUI/Help/PayDriver_ITransact.pm : Fix broken ITransact template variable help - http://bit.ly/bERZ2r	09:39
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r02c4c5c / (t/Macro/MiniCart.t t/Shop/PayDriver.t): Cleanup tests that were leaking carts. - http://bit.ly/9I1uVs	09:54
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc6b3438 / t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm : Add cleanup for Workflow Instances. - http://bit.ly/blZuLj	10:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdbca5b3 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Cleanup more tests that are leaking carts due to address book useId issues. - http://bit.ly/9iKGFU	10:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4a9a46f / (lib/WebGUI/Cache/CHI.pm t/Cache/CHI.t): Add missing module to Cache::CHI. Fix tests to add a cache config if the current config file does not have one. - http://bit.ly/dbbQmW	10:28
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8fe4c33 / t/Content/Setup.t : Update Content::Setup test for new WebGUI::Wizard - http://bit.ly/bUUvip	10:37
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r29d0d72 / t/Shop/PayDriver/Ogone.t : Fix a syntax error I introduced into the Ogone test. - http://bit.ly/bm87JW	10:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r42a6b61 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a bad delete button in the view inbox template. Fixes bug #11547 - http://bit.ly/baIQLd	10:56
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r5df334b / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a bad delete button in the view inbox template. Fixes bug #11547 - http://bit.ly/9zIxDC	10:58
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb9c2a3b / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make the Date macro handle leading and trailing whitespace. Fixes bug #11542. - http://bit.ly/cdSPjq	11:08
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r0f4066c / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make the Date macro handle leading and trailing whitespace. Fixes bug #11542. - http://bit.ly/d3pGma	11:08
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rdc60d01 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Really make the wiki sort by popularity (then lineage). Fixes bug #11537 - http://bit.ly/9AKae2	11:18
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1c70821 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Really make the wiki sort by popularity (then lineage). Fixes bug #11537 - http://bit.ly/910Mva	11:18
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@preaction	what if the WRE did not include the CPAN dependencies?	02:43
+perlDreamer	the WRE needs some base modules to start with, like Config::JSON	02:45
+perlDreamer	JSON	02:45
+perlDreamer	It would prevent people from trying to install the WRE and then start WebGUI right away	02:45
+perlDreamer	what other advantage do you see?	02:45
+perlDreamer	it would slow down the install though	02:46
@preaction	it would allow me to make the WRE. right now I can't	02:50
@preaction	unless we drop OS X as a supported WRE platform	02:51
+perlDreamer	what won't build on Mac OS X now?	03:09
@preaction	Class::MOP in 32-bit compatibility mode	03:12
@preaction	but then it's been a few months since i've tried	03:12
+perlDreamer	preaction: just as a heads up	03:38
+perlDreamer	spent about an hour last night cleaning up the new style	03:38
+perlDreamer	bad macros, bad URLs and other issues	03:38
@preaction	which new style?	03:38
+perlDreamer	crystalx, underground, and the green one	03:38
+perlDreamer	none of them were i18n'ed	03:38
+perlDreamer	and still aren't	03:38
+perlDreamer	also, they're currently all deployed into the root/import	03:39
+perlDreamer	is that where they should live hierarchially, or should them be in some sub-folder?	03:39
@preaction	i don't know what's been decided yet, the TWG thread has been dead since i posted that i had completed my work	03:39
+perlDreamer	we need to make a decision before Tuesday's release	03:44
+perlDreamer	I'll bump the thread tomorrow	03:44
@preaction	i'm not even sure those styles will remain in the distro at all	03:45
+perlDreamer	so they'll be out before Tuesday?	03:46
@preaction	no, because nobody from TWG has responded to me	03:46
+perlDreamer	something that totally blows me away	04:12
+perlDreamer	having the formatCurrency method in the cart throw an exception if it is passed an empty string or undef has exposed tons of cart bugs	04:13
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd92347b / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm : Use a method rather than reinventing the getPaymentGateway method. - http://bit.ly/cJGPR0	04:13
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+bartjol	aaah sometimes I forget features of webgui	18:22
+perlDreamer	it _is_ big	18:27
ckotil	and beautiful	18:31
+bartjol	I almost volunteered for writing a plugin (it's a syndication project), till I realized a httpproxy wobject would do the trick	18:35
+bartjol	ah, and I see that I conclude the same as other people on the anonymous registration forum posts	18:36
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@scrottie	life is good.	20:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r24b1682 / (3 files in 2 dirs): i18n for the PayDriver summary variables. - http://bit.ly/cl0J8h	20:27
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@preaction	good is okay, but amazing would be good	20:30
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r127e963 / docs/upgrades/packages-7.9.4/shopping-cart-collateral-items.wgpkg : Change location of yesNo and i18n for chooseing same shipping and billing addresses. - http://bit.ly/cFimRH	20:49
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9e2e39c / docs/upgrades/packages-7.9.4/shopping-cart-collateral-items.wgpkg : Fix a template typo. - http://bit.ly/cd9J7j	20:53
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0c4cb91 / (3 files in 2 dirs): Update template variables for ITransact payment driver. - http://bit.ly/9AixML	23:45
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--- Day changed Tue May 04 2010
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r36169ef / (3 files in 2 dirs): Template variable help docs for the Ogone template. - http://bit.ly/aV348f	00:06
kimd	Is it possible to execute macros in "extra head tags" under metadata?	00:08
+perlDreamer	I can't remember in which order that's done, kimd	00:09
kimd	At the moment, macros seem to return nothing.	00:09
kimd	The problem I have is that I want to add meta data to my site for sharing functions.	00:10
+perlDreamer	they can't return nothing unless they're being executed	00:10
kimd	Well, in that case they seem to be executed.	00:10
kimd	I have the following in the header section:	00:11
kimd	<meta name="description" content="<tmpl_var synopsis escape="html">" />	00:11
kimd	And I get the following in the page source:	00:11
kimd	<meta name="description" content="" />	00:11
+perlDreamer	that means there is no synopsis for the page	00:11
kimd	Ah. I meant tamplate vars, of course.	00:11
kimd	Nothing to do with macros at all.	00:12
+perlDreamer	no	00:12
+perlDreamer	and in a style template, synopsis would probably be the synopsis of the template	00:12
kimd	But isn't the synopsis auto-generated? I am talking about the collaboration system here.	00:12
+perlDreamer	not the page that's using it	00:12
kimd	Hm. Anyway I can get the synopsis of the thread being rendered into the html header?	00:13
kimd	Any way ...	00:13
+perlDreamer	yes	00:14
kimd	?	00:14
+perlDreamer	thinking...	00:14
kimd	Am I supposed to think?	00:14
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kimd	I am no longer capable of doing that. It is past 11 over here and I spent two hours on finding a solution for this.	00:15
+perlDreamer	In Asset.pm, processStyle adds the synopsis to the style template automatically	00:15
+perlDreamer	so it surprises me that it isn't happening already	00:15
kimd	Are you saying, that the template var should get replaced with the synopsis in fact?	00:16
+perlDreamer	no	00:16
+perlDreamer	it should show up along with all the other automatically made extra head tags	00:16
kimd	Why should it show up in head tags? It is definitely not there. Only a title element providing some information.	00:17
kimd	And that is auto-generated.	00:17
+perlDreamer	so, for a little context, you built a CS	00:18
+perlDreamer	added threads and posts	00:18
+perlDreamer	and when you view a post, you want to see the synopsis from the post show up in the head tags?	00:19
xdanger	^Page(synopsis); ?	00:19
kimd	perlDreamer, that is exactly what I want to do.	00:20
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re21ce2c / (2 files in 2 dirs): Template variable help docs for the Cash plugin - http://bit.ly/c006Hd	00:21
kimd	When using AddThis.com sharing functionality expects the respective information provided via head meta tags.	00:21
kimd	Facebook expects...	00:21
+perlDreamer	kimd, I'd have to build one (probably using a demo site) to see what's going on.	00:22
+perlDreamer	If it doesn't show the Synopsis from the Thread in the head tags, it is definitely a bug	00:22
+perlDreamer	but WebGUI doesn't let you display just 1 post	00:22
+perlDreamer	so if it's the Post you're looking for, it will not work	00:23
+perlDreamer	whenever you view a post, it always shows the Thread that contains it	00:23
kimd	No, it's fine to get the synopsis of the thread.	00:23
kimd	But the respective template var seems to be empty.	00:23
+perlDreamer	it wouldn't show up in the synopsis variable	00:24
+perlDreamer	it would show up in...	00:24
kimd	@xdanger: ^Page(synopsis); returns the expected result, btw	00:24
+perlDreamer	head.tags template variable	00:25
kimd	Ok. So, it's not possible to access regular template variables of an arbitrary asset in the extra head tags session?	00:26
+perlDreamer	no, because those template variables aren't available there	00:27
kimd	Oh, that is making everything a lot more complicated. In addition to the synopsis I would require thumbnails as well.	00:28
kimd	But the page macro should work, correct?	00:28
+perlDreamer	you sure you don't want an RSS Feed?	00:28
kimd	No. Definitely not. These are in place already. Some users have requested "Share on..." functionality.	00:28
kimd	AddThis is taking care of pretty much everything. Except for thumbnails.	00:29
kimd	Those need to be specified in the header.	00:29
@preaction	you could override getMetaDataAsTemplateVariables in the asset you're using to put some template vars in the head block	00:31
kimd	Ok. Going to bed. Thanks for your time, perlDreamer. Very much appreciated.	00:31
kimd	I am going to write a few tests in return ;-)	00:31
+perlDreamer	I wish I had a better answer for you, kimd	00:32
+perlDreamer	I'm sorry	00:32
@preaction	but really, why don't we have the same set of vars in the head block as the body?	00:32
@preaction	it would take like 5 minutes to do	00:32
+perlDreamer	preaction, they're _supposed_ to be in the head tags already, from what I can see	00:32
+perlDreamer	both prepareView and processStyle add the synopsis	00:32
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4933e5d / (5 files in 2 dirs): Template variable help for the Pay Pal modules, and name the ITransact template better. - http://bit.ly/918Kbp	00:33
@preaction	i'm looking at WebGUI::Asset::Template->prepare	00:33
+perlDreamer	Asset->processStyle says the synopsis is added	00:36
+perlDreamer	likewise with prepareView	00:36
kimd	preaction, would that be possible? Should I submit an RFE on that?	00:41
kimd	One could at least add those variables provided through prepareView, right?	00:41
@preaction	yes, but it changes where the computationally expensive stuff happens	00:42
@preaction	i would say it's a bug in AddThis that they require something from the head block and can't get it passed in	00:42
@preaction	alternatively, you could add the extra tag in the head block through javascript	00:43
kimd	In fact, it seems to be an issue with facebook. There is a mechanism for passing such data. The "description" metadata, however, is being ignored. And for thumbnails you need to link them inside the header.	00:45
kimd	Very stupid, very inconvenient to handle.	00:45
kimd	But JS may be a solution to that. I will have a look at it tomorrow.	00:46
@preaction	so it's facebook grabbing the page and grepping for a meta tag with the image?	00:46
@preaction	if so, JS won't work, as it probably won't be a web browser	00:46
kimd	It seems so.	00:46
kimd	Hm. If you look at it that way. Yeah, you are right.	00:47
kimd	Does it make sense to submit that RFE? Or would it get rejected due to performance issues?	00:47
@preaction	this would make a good rfe though: http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Facebook_Share/Specifying_Meta_Tags	00:47
@preaction	being able to specify extra head tags stuff. you could just write it directly in prepareView	00:48
kimd	I cannot follow. Do you suggest to have these tags be auto-generated?	00:49
@preaction	yes. have the asset generate the tags itself	00:49
kimd	Can we have that in the core? I mean, it's only facebook and probably a view community sites that require those tags. And possible Google...	00:50
@preaction	it's one of those things probably nobody thought to ask for, they don't know they want it yet	00:52
kimd	Well, I will write an RFE tomorrow and wait for your / JTs reply.	00:53
kimd	But now I am definitely going to bed. Good night everyone.	00:53
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+perlDreamer	preaction, I'm still neck deep in Cart 1.5, and soon the wiki, but I think that what he wants should already work	00:53
@preaction	it doesn't. only metadata variables are available in the extra head tags block of a template	00:54
+perlDreamer	synopsis is treated like a metadata variable	00:54
@preaction	but synopsis doesn't have the storage location	00:55
+perlDreamer	that's a separate problem, and one that can be solved with a macro?	00:56
+perlDreamer	^Page(storageId);	00:56
@preaction	but why force users to go through that when they just want facebook sharing to work?	00:57
@preaction	and it's more: ^StorageUrl(^Page(storageId);,"thumb");	00:57
+perlDreamer	sure, once you have the storageId it's all downhill from there	00:57
+perlDreamer	about users, I guess it's just a balance between how much processing it takes, how much extra data it is to download, versus how many people use it	00:58
+perlDreamer	you wouldn't see many intranet pages being posted on Facebook :)	00:58
@preaction	that could be a config setting "enable social networking features"	01:00
+perlDreamer	yeah	01:02
+perlDreamer	or like mobileStyle	01:02
@preaction	i think it might be a good idea to have packs of these kinds of things, mixins that extend current asset behaviors. plack middlewares will make this easy, as long as we pass around objects instead of HTML	01:05
@preaction	that way you can have a bare-bones WebGUI with nothing, or you can layer on features you want and leave out features you don't	01:05
+perlDreamer	I like that	01:08
@preaction	imagine being able to hack additional template tags into an existing asset without having to subclass or edit the asset itself	01:13
+perlDreamer	like via a role?	01:13
+perlDreamer	I guess that's editing the asset...	01:13
@preaction	well, you could force extra stuff into the class, but i was thinking more like pre- or post-processing to change behaviors	01:14
@preaction	it's... kinda possible in the 7x, but it's easier in Plack, and even easier once we get really lazy about how a response is constructed	01:15
+perlDreamer	the cat's out of the bag, now	01:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rec2d6a8 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt docs/gotcha.txt): Document Shop and Cart changes for users. - http://bit.ly/aqkASW	01:17
* perlDreamer heads out to pick up da kiddoz		01:21
* scrottie squints his ears.		01:25
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* perlDreamer looks, and scrottie still looks like he has ears, squinty or not		02:08
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CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * re26723f / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm www/extras/shop/cart.js): handling per-item shipping dropdowns in js - http://bit.ly/cCzhV1	03:06
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * ra6a7c6c / www/extras/shop/cart.js : fixing possible price summary update bug -	03:24
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * r10d86db / www/extras/shop/cart.js : send billing info as shipping in updateSummary if box is checked -	03:33
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * ref53ad0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add the missing documentation for the by keyword template in the WikiMaster. - http://bit.ly/9zjcbh	04:55
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb2dd613 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add the missing documentation for the by keyword template in the WikiMaster. - http://bit.ly/aQuTP1	05:10
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5afdefe / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.pm : Foundational work for wiki sub-keywords. - http://bit.ly/ar3lCt	05:10
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3ea9f29 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.pm : add a method to save the new keywords from the from in www_byKeyword. - http://bit.ly/atJcsw	05:30
@preaction	Dancer got a lot of things right, but it's got a lot of growing to do	05:57
@preaction	and damnit, like everyone else it seems to think "app == site"	06:01
+perlDreamer	you like app == url better, right?	06:18
ckotil	im content with app=iphone	06:22
ckotil	and spirit rocks. for jailbreaking my stupid phone	06:22
ckotil	i accidentally let it uprgrade itself a few months ago, and ive been unable to jailbreak it until today	06:23
@preaction	i like "app == set of URLs"	06:28
@preaction	app == way to display content. site == set of apps	06:28
ckotil	an app to me is a set of tool(s) that does what i need	06:31
@preaction	well that could describe a site too, so what's unique about an app?	06:34
ckotil	nothing. a site can be ana pp	06:41
ckotil	app too	06:41
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@preaction	"can be", yes, but not "must be". so a site has other things that distinguish it from just an app (like, perhaps, other apps)	06:42
ckotil	yeah	06:58
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7dd02d6 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.pm : Pull hierarchial keywords from the wiki, instead of pages in it. - http://bit.ly/98aBIa	07:28
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3096054 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Template variable help for the new wiki sub-keywords. - http://bit.ly/ao5FXg	07:34
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SDuensin	Howdy.	17:15
+bartjol	rawhide!	17:19
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CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop no-utility * r869efbe / (101 files in 29 dirs): remove WebGUI::Utility - http://bit.ly/doWyxX	19:46
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9840031 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Shade the buttons with CSS. Don't show per-item shipping if there's only 1 item in the cart. - http://bit.ly/bNPcvf	20:21
+perlDreamer	I learned something new about WebGUI today	20:21
+perlDreamer	for years, I've set ID's on HTML form elements using the extras parameter	20:21
+perlDreamer	extras => q\|id="myId"\|	20:21
+perlDreamer	but today I learned that you can set it directly	20:21
+perlDreamer	id => "myId"	20:22
+perlDreamer	Form::Control takes that and does the right thing	20:22
+perlDreamer	and, unlike the extras, if you give the form element a name, it won't override the id	20:23
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Diggy	greetz to all!	20:57
+perlDreamer	yo, Diggy	20:57
* perlDreamer is heading to the library, be back in a bit		20:58
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Diggy	brb	21:00
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Diggy	yeesh, i had to work!	21:23
Diggy	ok, i'm ready to pull the trigger on buying a couple of webgui books	21:24
Diggy	using OPM, of course	21:24
Diggy	but, i forgot which ones would be most useful	21:25
Diggy	(sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll have killed off all but 3 brain cells)	21:26
Diggy	i think pD mentioned Content Manager's Guide, and the Designer's Guide	21:26
Diggy	i DO need the steenkeeng manuals!	21:27
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@bopbop	diggy: what is your role... what kind of work will you be doing on the site? Content Managers will give instructions on how to use all the assets and give a brief intro to workflow. Design Guide will give tips for templating said assets.	21:28
Diggy	well, we're a 75-person (and growing) shop, so i do it all	21:28
Diggy	i thing Designer's Guide, for sure	21:29
@bopbop	you can get a preview of each on lulu-- it'll give you glimpse at the table of contents for each	21:29
@bopbop	might help	21:29
Diggy	i'll do that	21:29
Diggy	at least i'm fairly sure that i'll get the Designer's Guide	21:30
Diggy	btw, do any of the proceeds from sale of books go to support the project?	21:30
@bopbop	to be honest, there isn't much overhead	21:31
@bopbop	they're really expensive to publish	21:31
Diggy	ok. i do like to support foss when i can	21:32
@bopbop	but yes, anything you purchase from plainblack does funnel back in - in some way or the other	21:32
Diggy	good 2 know	21:32
Diggy	just took a look at the toc's of the various books	21:38
Diggy	i guess Administrator's Guide would be useful, 2	21:38
Diggy	(2 books blows my budget :-)	21:39
@bopbop	yeah- it's a bit outdated, but still relevant	21:39
Diggy	do you have any idea how often they're updated?	21:39
@bopbop	normally, we update about once a year- the admin guide has been about two years	21:39
@bopbop	however, it's still current enough	21:40
Diggy	ok	21:40
@bopbop	there aren't too many major changes	21:40
Diggy	as i mentioned last chat, i need to get up 2 speed pretty quickly	21:41
Diggy	am just smart enough to figure many thing out myself	21:41
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Diggy	sorry i can't chat some more; gotta do work	22:15
Diggy	l8r	22:15
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@preaction	perlDreamer: did you merge the spectre fix into the last 7.8 release?	22:50
+perlDreamer	I believe so	22:50
@preaction	k, just wondering	22:50
* perlDreamer will check the changelog		22:50
+perlDreamer	18b679d2	22:51
+perlDreamer	that's it	22:51
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@tavisto	perlDreamer, is this interesting to you? http://packages.ubuntu.com/hu/lucid/webgui	23:22
@tavisto	This looks like a Master of the Universe @ Ubuntu devs is maintaining a wG package?	23:23
@tavisto	dionak, I wonder if William knows about this	23:24
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carogray	hi	23:25
dionak	hi carogray	23:25
dionak	perlDreamer, I'll mention it to him	23:25
carogray	can you remove sort order from a folder and organize files according to how you want	23:25
carogray	hi Dionak!	23:25
dionak	you are on my list to email.	23:25
carogray	me too	23:26
carogray	on the phone with someone who needs my help	23:26
carogray	know the answer to this one?	23:26
dionak	i think what you're looking for can be accomplished by using Rank	23:27
carogray	we did that - it works if you are logged in, but not logged in just does ascending order.	23:27
carogray	tried clearing cache - no luck	23:27
dionak	off the top of my head, i'm not sure	23:28
dionak	anyone else?	23:28
carogray	also when she first tried this, she made the new file be 1 in rank, WebGUI assigned it null!	23:30
carogray	also - this does not seem to be versioned	23:30
dionak	are you using a folder asset or the asset manager?	23:30
carogray	files are in folder	23:31
dionak	or a folder asset in the asset manager?	23:31
carogray	using asset manager for folder	23:31
dionak	k	23:31
carogray	to rank files	23:31
carogray	not sure how to do it in folder on page	23:31
carogray	cannot drag	23:32
dionak	to rank, update the numbers and click 'update'	23:34
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+perlDreamer	carogray, you cannot change the "real" order of files in a folder	23:41
+perlDreamer	the folder will only display them in lineage order (rank) or alphabetically	23:41
+perlDreamer	dionak is right on with changing the order using the AssetManager	23:42
--- Day changed Wed May 05 2010
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xdanger	Was there at some point a way to have user assigned richeditors? I have a vague memory of something like that, but was that in an older version that was dropped out or just on some design plan?	00:07
+perlDreamer	xdanger, that was back in WebGUI 5	00:09
+perlDreamer	in 7 and above, it's sitewide	00:09
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@preaction	well, sitewide unless an asset allows for its own	00:11
xdanger	was there a reason for this?	00:13
xdanger	I have a client who wants to have different for adminis and content managers	00:13
carogray	back again	00:19
carogray	I used rank in asset manager	00:19
carogray	when logged in files display in order I ranked them	00:20
carogray	when I log out files displayed only in ascending order	00:20
carogray	have to drain potatoes back in sec	00:20
carogray	back	00:25
+perlDreamer	carogray, sounds like site caching	00:33
+perlDreamer	or, browser caching	00:33
+perlDreamer	maybe both?	00:33
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r39b4450 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Finish wiki sub-category API code, with upgrade sub and tests. - http://bit.ly/cvFYLC	01:05
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r960ff22 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Tests, bugfixes, and adding synopsis to the byKeyword template. - http://bit.ly/9CJuHf	01:50
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CIA-104	webgui: khenn master * rac7ce44 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/i18n/English.pm): Added support for utf-8 characters in urls for English language pack - http://bit.ly/a0EEQl	02:46
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carogray	anyone home	03:24
carogray	?	03:24
@scrottie	carogray, ask the question. someone will answer if and when they can.	03:26
carogray	I would like to know if, in a data form, there is a way not to have the yes no form field default to either answer, even if the answer is required AND if I have a date field if it can display as empty also. At the minute the yes no field defaults to no and the date field is already filled with today's date. I would prefer to have the date completely empty and let people pick yes or no rather than have one answer already in	03:28
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r491c302 / (6 files in 4 dirs): Finish rework of hierarchial keywords/categories. - http://bit.ly/arWK0y	06:44
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r16cca1f / t/Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.t : Update the test for the isTopLevel variables. - http://bit.ly/dBaWzJ	07:11
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd055474 / (167 files in 79 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.4 release - http://bit.ly/btuDKE	07:18
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+perlDreamer	ah, preaction	07:39
+perlDreamer	the excitement of the upgrade keeping you awake, too?	07:39
@preaction	not really, i should be in bed.	07:40
+perlDreamer	I'd like to be there myself	08:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r41575d2 / (4 files in 4 dirs): ready for 7.9.5 development - http://bit.ly/aUQt0f	08:19
+Radix_	hey guys.. question for you.. I've currently got both the modproxy and modperl logging to the same file - and it means I'm getting heaps of 127.0.0.1 references in there. Should I just point modperl to another file or is there a way to turn it off?	08:30
+Radix_	save to /dev/null I guess	08:37
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+perlDreamer	Radix_: I would try the apache docs: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/logs.html	08:42
+perlDreamer	looks like you can setup filters	08:42
+perlDreamer	check out the "Conditional logs" entry	08:42
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+Radix_	Cool - that seems to work a treat :)	08:50
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kaare_	Can I find any documentation about the dispatcher in Webgui?	12:19
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12487 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_MapPoint.pm Asset_WikiMaster.pm Asset_WikiPage.pm): Updating German on translation server	12:31
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12488 /translations/German/German/Asset_Template.pm: Updating German on translation server	12:31
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12489 /translations/German/German/Shop.pm: Updating German on translation server	13:32
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SDuensin	Drinko de Mayo!	17:09
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+perlDreamer	morning, folks	18:35
@preaction	morning perlDreamer!	18:42
* perlDreamer is waiting for the big one to drop		18:42
@preaction	so am i, but i have to wait to use the restroom	18:48
+perlDreamer	having problems with the new house?	18:52
@preaction	no, just need more coffee and to work	18:52
@tavisto	preaction, the new wizard.. I've never seen languages listed as Nederlands and Deutsch in the software that I've used in the past. Is that common these days? I normally see them listed as Dutch and German	18:52
@preaction	tavisto: eh, i didn't touch that part, those are set by the translators	18:53
@tavisto	I'm guessing that those words are the titles in the respective languages, but I've just never seen that before	18:53
@tavisto	the translation server shows Dutch and German for the languages	18:54
+perlDreamer	that's because the translation server works in English only	18:54
@preaction	different choices, i dunno. that was the choice made by the developer of the dropdown thing	18:54
SDuensin	This is kinda crazy and cool: http://narwhaljs.org/	18:55
@tavisto	Well, IMHO, it's strange and not standard	18:56
@preaction	OS X displays language names in their native text / language	18:57
SDuensin	Seems to be becoming one.	18:57
@tavisto	I guess as long as the dutch team thinks it's fine, then it's irrelevant what I think	18:57
SDuensin	Oh. Wrong conversation. :-)	18:57
@tavisto	yep good point, they do	18:58
@tavisto	perlDreamer, Australian is close at 98.9%	18:59
+perlDreamer	we do have them slotted for inclusion, but they need to show they can keep it well translated first	18:59
@tavisto	yep, I'm glad to see Russian and Polish starting to come up too	19:00
+perlDreamer	Arabic is still in freefall	19:00
+perlDreamer	hard to believe it used to be 90%	19:00
@tavisto	yeah ehab must not be very active	19:01
@preaction	there's an arabic guy on the forums right now, maybe he'll put it back up	19:01
@tavisto	preaction, that wG logo in the startup wizard is really pixelated around the edge..looks nasty on my screen	19:09
@preaction	yes, because it's supposed to have a white background, and i'm supposed to have a designer.	19:09
@preaction	transparent gifs/pngs simply do not work	19:10
@tavisto	do you mean that the purple is going away and will be white?	19:18
@preaction	no, i mean that someone's gonna have to look at it with a designer's eye, and i don't have one (or anyone with one)	19:18
@tavisto	or just that the original background on the logo was white. I have enough designer experience where I can still fix things like that	19:18
+perlDreamer	dangerous words, tavisto	19:21
+perlDreamer	run for the hills!	19:21
@tavisto	yeah well back in the day I was chief designer, developer, and consultant	19:22
+perlDreamer	developer?	19:23
+perlDreamer	you code, too?	19:23
@tavisto	unfortunately, I've moved away from all that kinda stuff these days but I still dabble when needed.. And there's much to do with Doug's new toys	19:23
@tavisto	HTML/CSS yeah	19:23
+perlDreamer	hack on, brother	19:23
@tavisto	not real programming languages though.. I leave Perl and C++ and VB to the uber nerds	19:23
@tavisto	<--- poser	19:23
+perlDreamer	aw, hackin' is hackin'	19:24
+perlDreamer	only true hackers deserve Brazilian BBQ	19:24
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+perlDreamer	seems like a year ago I was working on WebGUI 88, which is our port to Elk, or something like that	19:46
@preaction	que?	19:51
+perlDreamer	no, it was definitely WebGUI 8	19:52
+perlDreamer	it's been so long...	19:52
+perlDreamer	and not Elk, but Antelope	20:04
+perlDreamer	Deer	20:04
+perlDreamer	Oqapi?	20:04
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+perlDreamer	hi, patspam	20:15
+patspam	hey perlDreamer	20:15
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+perlDreamer	you missed all the excitement	20:15
+perlDreamer	we hacked the Cart	20:15
+perlDreamer	and rewrote the wiki keywords/sub-categories thing	20:15
+patspam	cool!	20:15
+perlDreamer	and WebGUI will do UTF-8 urls	20:16
@preaction	and redid the setup wizard completely	20:16
+perlDreamer	and added new style templates	20:16
+patspam	far out!	20:16
+patspam	you guys have been busy	20:16
+perlDreamer	how are you doing?	20:16
@preaction	oh, and a new cache driver for 7.x that supports FastMmap and memcached	20:17
+patspam	sleepy :)	20:17
+patspam	I flew in from australia last night	20:17
+patspam	preaction: looking forward to playing with that	20:17
+patspam	I brought my road bike over this time	20:19
+perlDreamer	now you're talking!	20:21
+perlDreamer	okay, I think this finalizes it	20:24
+perlDreamer	Australian people are funnier than Americans	20:24
+perlDreamer	http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2010/05/australian_distracted-driving.html	20:24
@tavisto	how much did that cost patspam!!!	20:26
@tavisto	on the airplane?	20:26
+patspam	free!	20:26
+patspam	counted as one of my bags	20:27
@tavisto	wow, that's amazing.	20:27
@tavisto	you fly Quantas?	20:27
+patspam	yeah	20:27
+patspam	I used their official bike box (cardboard)	20:27
@tavisto	they got decent rates from NYC?	20:27
+patspam	was pretty paranoid they were going to damage my bike, packed it full of padding	20:27
@tavisto	yeah I would definitely think that as well	20:27
@tavisto	and I didnt know they made special bike boxes.. hehe	20:27
+patspam	yeah it was really cheap this time around, about 1k return	20:27
+patspam	bought with about 3 days notice!	20:28
@tavisto	WOW!!!!	20:28
+patspam	I was expected 2-3 times that for such short notice	20:28
@tavisto	You realize that a normal flight from say.. Michigan to NYC last minute... would run about 1k	20:28
+patspam	must've been lucky with the season	20:28
@tavisto	let alone... an international flight	20:28
+patspam	webjet.com ftw!	20:28
@tavisto	dang.	20:29
+patspam	my last flight in feb was about 1600, and that was bought 2 months ahead of time	20:29
+perlDreamer	speaking of which, I need to set one of those up for the September time frame	20:29
+patspam	Portland -> NY -> MSN	20:30
+patspam	=p	20:30
+perlDreamer	how many bottles of scotch did you want?	20:30
+patspam	heh just one!	20:30
+patspam	people will think I'm an alcoholic ;)	20:30
+perlDreamer	at those prices, it's an investment	20:31
@tavisto	yeah best bet on flights is to keep watching from like 3 months out. Best deals are typically in between the 1-2 month time out	20:31
+patspam	interesting.. didn't know that	20:31
@tavisto	I watched George Clooney in "Up in the Air" and was like.... Yeah, this is how I try to live my life.	20:31
@tavisto	well that's the case with Delta anyway. I typically only fly with them cuz I've got status	20:31
@tavisto	although since the merger with NWA they have been absolutely dreadful most of the time...	20:32
@tavisto	NWA was a great airline. I miss it dearly.	20:32
+perlDreamer	preaction: does WebGUI8 still need Memcached::libmemcached ?	20:33
@preaction	no	20:33
+patspam	tavisto: I flew them a few times to Aus, they were cheap and good but I switched to qantas because delta don't fly direct to Melbourne	20:34
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd758bce / sbin/testEnvironment.pl : Remove unneeded module from testEnvironment.pl - http://bit.ly/bs2JEW	20:34
@tavisto	Quantas has cooler planes so I would rather fly with them... Their first class cabins look AMAZING (although I don't have $5-8k burning a hole in my pocket so I wouldn't do it)	20:36
@tavisto	speaking of cool, my old mighty mouse died and I got one of the new mice from apple. The touch sensors are amazing.... if anyone was doubting, definitely pick one up and give it a whirl. You'll love it	20:37
+patspam	does it have more than one button?	20:38
+perlDreamer	patspam: I upgraded to Ubuntu 10.04	20:41
+perlDreamer	it doesn't like the WebGUI package any longer	20:41
+patspam	oh dang	20:41
+patspam	yeah I upgraded this morning too	20:41
+perlDreamer	now, after every package I add or upgrade, I get dpkq errors and warnings	20:41
+patspam	spent 10 minutes playing with empathy's IRC support and then went back to Pidgin	20:41
+patspam	hmm that's weird	20:41
+patspam	webgui borked your system?	20:42
+perlDreamer	that's the odd part	20:42
+perlDreamer	everything works	20:42
+perlDreamer	it just seems to be line noise	20:42
+patspam	what's the error?	20:42
+perlDreamer	I'll make and paste one	20:42
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+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/391158	20:45
+patspam	wrong return code?	20:46
+perlDreamer	probably	20:47
+patspam	or maybe that's legit - looks like it couldn't start apache and mysql wasn't running	20:47
+perlDreamer	they're both currently running	20:47
+perlDreamer	I've been using them this morning	20:48
+patspam	oh right, mysql running, but access denied	20:48
+patspam	was something else bound to port 80?	20:48
+perlDreamer	I don't think so, but I'll ask netstat	20:49
+perlDreamer	nope	20:50
+patspam	weird	20:50
+patspam	does "/etc/init.d/apache2 restart" work now?	20:51
+perlDreamer	nope	20:51
+patspam	that's possibly a good thing - you can debug it	20:52
+patspam	those Cart improvements sound really good	20:53
+patspam	oh nice! I like underscore.js	20:54
+perlDreamer	the problem is my WebGUI8 branch install is messed up	20:55
+patspam	ah	20:55
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Paths	20:56
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+perlDreamer	WebGUI 8 is in good shape. Only 3 failing tests from the Test::Class suite, and all in WebGUI::Asset::Story	21:10
@preaction	awesome	21:11
@preaction	you're in a race to doing the psgi test work ;), if Scott starts before you're ready, you'll be doing it together	21:11
@preaction	though perhaps that will be nice	21:11
+perlDreamer	psgi test work?	21:12
+perlDreamer	you mean for the merge?	21:12
@preaction	WebGUI::PseudoRequest needs to mock Plack::Request not Apache2::Request	21:12
+perlDreamer	ah	21:12
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@preaction	and we may have other fun things to do with the testing stuff once that happens (like no "LIVE TESTS" anymore)	21:13
+perlDreamer	you sure about that? Isn't there a null server request for Plack?	21:13
@preaction	well, there are methods that plack expects that we don't have	21:13
@preaction	"logger" is the one it's currently hung up on	21:13
+perlDreamer	between Scrottie's Perl and Plack awesomeness, and my WebGUI knowledge, we'll get it done	21:19
@preaction	well, plus you can help him navigate the weirdnesses, and hopefully you'll both come out with some ideas to fix them (or at least some troublespots to look at)	21:20
+perlDreamer	what, WebGUI and weirdness? I know not of what you speak.	21:25
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@scrottie	oh, stop...	21:36
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3e168b1 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Trap calls to newById inside getParent. StoryArchive should use cloneFromDb. - http://bit.ly/bMzJZ5	21:51
+perlDreamer	that's it, we're all passing now again	21:51
+perlDreamer	except for that stupid attempt to try and run the support library	21:51
+perlDreamer	preaction, I would hazard a guess at this point, that WebGUI 8 will make content	21:52
+perlDreamer	do we need to take a step back, evaluate what's ahead of us and current status?	21:52
@preaction	no, there's a problem with the admin interface and version tags	21:52
+perlDreamer	well, I'll see about the regular test suite then	21:53
+perlDreamer	and I can add more tests to the Test::Class suite, too	21:53
+perlDreamer	between both suites, we have a fair amount of coverage of the core API	21:53
+perlDreamer	so having it working would be nice	21:54
@preaction	i think it has something to do with changes i made to www_editSave, and will be making more	21:54
@preaction	we're close, yes, very close, but not quite	21:54
* perlDreamer goes running, bbiaw		21:57
+perlDreamer	note, everything is off today	21:57
+perlDreamer	truck is at the shop	21:58
+perlDreamer	dog is at the vet's office	21:58
+perlDreamer	kid's come home early	21:58
+perlDreamer	so I'll be in and out all day	21:58
@preaction	k	21:58
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CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * ra9b4ba1 / (3 files in 2 dirs): added new wg logo - http://bit.ly/cIMekB	22:18
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CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * r38d4631 / (3 files in 2 dirs): startup cleaning - http://bit.ly/diGQaw	23:02
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+perlDreamer	rats, going to have to bodge it	23:36
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--- Day changed Thu May 06 2010
+patspam	perlDreamer: when you're back, I'd like to map out a plan for merging psgi into WebGUI8	00:12
+patspam	plenty of work still to be done so don't want to merge too early, but keen to do it to keep the momentum up	00:15
* patspam goes back to reassembling his bike		00:15
@preaction	it almost looks as if update() isn't working at all	00:16
@preaction	in 8	00:16
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+perlDreamer	preaction, which update?	00:19
@preaction	Asset->update	00:19
@preaction	delegated to WebGUI::Definition::Role::Object	00:19
@preaction	or maybe it's the write that isn't working	00:19
@preaction	like, i can't run the site starter, it sets the style template ID to wrong	00:20
+perlDreamer	I have tests for it	00:20
+perlDreamer	and it verifies some data written and read back	00:20
+perlDreamer	preaction, I'd extend the test suite to duplicate what it's doing to see if we can isolate it	00:21
@preaction	of course	00:21
@preaction	no, i see. the starter is setting it to "", and webgui is accepting it	00:25
@preaction	and this is the old starter, so i should probably merge master again	00:26
@tavisto	PERLDREAMER	00:27
@tavisto	tavis frowns and points at perlDreamer	00:27
@tavisto	you can run but you can't hide pD	00:29
@preaction	if i'm adding tests to Test::WebGUI::Asset, what's $tag in test->getAnchoredAsset?	00:48
@preaction	nm, found it	00:49
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@preaction_	perlDreamer: if I commit a failing test, can you help? (not necessarily now, later is fine too)	00:57
+perlDreamer	if you commit a failing test, it costs 1 tooth	01:31
@preaction_	it looks like the session is getting completely cleared out between each call to ->session	01:32
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@preaction_	the real problem is that addRevision creates a new version tag, even though there is a current working tag	01:34
+perlDreamer	addRevision shouldn't do that	01:34
+perlDreamer	it should use the existing tag	01:34
@preaction_	right, but the session->stow doesn't have the existing tag, and neither does session->scratch	01:35
@preaction_	and the damned session object is too huge to debug.	01:36
@preaction_	ah. failing versiontag tests	01:37
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@preaction_	do we have to always say "our $CONFIG_FILE" when we want a var declared with our now?	01:44
@preaction_	ah. now i see: the tag was never setWorking	01:47
@preaction_	duh.	01:47
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+perlDreamer	preaction: why does the calendar stores view types and start dates in the scratch?	01:59
@preaction_	probably in case the user looks at an event or adds an event so they go back to the right place	02:00
+perlDreamer	that's a good reason	02:00
@preaction_	but perhaps it should store such in a specific way to avoid the problem susan is having?	02:03
@preaction_	and now, for some reason, version tags are working again, though i have not changed any code.	02:04
@preaction_	ah. spoke too soon. it worked for one page view, but it must still be pending or something.	02:04
+perlDreamer	preaction_: using the calendar ical system, you can essentially do the same thing as the shortcut, without the interaction	02:06
@preaction_	oh jesus... if it is the caching i am going to be very annoyed	02:22
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CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * rda8ebb9 / www/extras/shop/cart.js : no forms[0], we will use a real id - http://bit.ly/akATn0	02:36
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r113c44a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm): Give the cart an id for the JS to work with. - http://bit.ly/afBzmQ	02:51
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reb9d32f / lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm : Log the correct transaction data on a $0 checkout. - http://bit.ly/dj7wNb	03:28
+perlDreamer	dinner time for old hackers	03:29
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf04cf29 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm): Fix display of the shop credit deduction when there's a recurring item in the cart. Fixes bug #11557 - http://bit.ly/98SJcB	04:30
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r6926217 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm): Fix display of the shop credit deduction when there's a recurring item in the cart. Fixes bug #11557 - http://bit.ly/d7Wybv	04:30
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r17841c8 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Credit.pm lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Shop.pm): Better messaging and error handling in the Shop/Credit screen. Cannot give credit to Visitor. - http://bit.ly/cK1r0Y	04:49
+perlDreamer	later,a ll	04:50
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:43
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+perlDreamer	morning, good WebGUI folks	17:57
+bartjol	hi	17:59
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Haarg	the more i think about WebGUI::Session the more i hate it	19:49
Haarg	it's like three different objects mushed together into one	19:50
Haarg	there is the site (config, database, cache), the user session (var, stash) and the request (asset, user, request, etc)	19:53
Haarg	it should really be separated out into separate classes	19:53
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Haarg	preaction, do you see any reason to let i18n modules filter URLs given that we are allowing utf8 now?	20:10
@preaction	that's what i was telling Frank yesterday: i18n shouldn't give one rat's ass what the URL is	20:12
Haarg	ok	20:12
Haarg	i'll change that then	20:13
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+perlDreamer	preaction: did you test any of the new site styles to make sure they work with modern WebGUI?	20:58
@preaction	modern?	20:58
@preaction	they worked on the default content, otherwise no	20:58
+perlDreamer	modern like all the templating and style sheet work from TWG	20:59
@preaction	nope	20:59
@preaction	they weren't supposed to stay there for long, TWG was supposed to replace them with something else	20:59
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+perlDreamer	patspam, got the urge to talk about merge?	21:53
SDuensin	Whew. The first time I read that, I saw "marriage".	21:55
+perlDreamer	You need professional help, SDuensin	21:56
SDuensin	Yea, but that's expensive!	21:56
@preaction	so's marriage	21:57
SDuensin	Well, I already did that.	21:58
+perlDreamer	marriage is much more expensive	22:00
SDuensin	Actually costs less than my technology habit. :-)	22:01
+perlDreamer	yay!	22:01
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc1cc94f / t/tests/My/Test/Class.pm : Do not run the test suite on the support class. - http://bit.ly/cPgici	22:01
+perlDreamer	All Test::Class tests pass	22:02
Haarg	perlDreamer, what merge are you referring to?	22:02
+perlDreamer	patspam wanted to talk about the upcoming psgi merge	22:02
Haarg	ah	22:02
ckotil	The workflow activity NotifyAdminsWithOpenVersionTags is confusing. the name suggest an email is sent to the admins notifying about an old version tag (default 3 days old), but in the description it reads 'This sends out notifications to all users that have an uncommitted tag. It only does this if the version tags are empty...' i can tell from reading the code that it does in fact send a notice to admins.	22:13
ckotil	id like to send out notices directly to the user with the uncommitted tag	22:13
ckotil	looks like ill need to modify the existing activity and make a new one.	22:14
ckotil	a lot of users new to webgui will edit an asset, and forget to commit, even tho i have big annoying button at the top of the page that says DONT FORGET TO COMMIT	22:14
+perlDreamer	eh, just write a workflow that begins to charge their credit card	22:16
SDuensin	Ooo! I want that one!	22:16
ckotil	hehe	22:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r28f4605 / t/Session/Style.t : Update test due to the removal of the headBlock. - http://bit.ly/ayqrki	22:19
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd7ee5f0 / t/Session/Style.t : Update test due to the removal of the headBlock. -	22:20
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r65f3904 / t/Session/Style.t : Update test due to the removal of the headBlock.	22:20
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r396f0cd / t/Session/Style.t : More headBlock => extraHeadTags cleanup - http://bit.ly/9Nr8RS	22:21
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re71a6be / t/Session/Style.t : More headBlock => extraHeadTags cleanup - http://bit.ly/dopcAi	22:21
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd46dcaa / t/Session/Style.t : More headBlock => extraHeadTags cleanup - http://bit.ly/abEBob	22:22
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb7b91a3 / t/Session/Url.t : Update test for property manipulation. - http://bit.ly/boPgMw	22:24
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+perlDreamer	preaction, how does the new caching system work with compound keys?	22:32
@preaction	the compound key must be calculated beforehand	22:33
+perlDreamer	was that done as part of the cache switch?	22:33
@preaction	yes	22:33
+perlDreamer	a test or two may have been missed	22:34
@preaction	quite possibly	22:34
+perlDreamer	All session tests are now passing	22:35
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5bf7f42 / t/Session/Var.t : Update the test for the new caching scheme. - http://bit.ly/an0bOi	22:35
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+perlDreamer	lunch time	22:58
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--- Day changed Fri May 07 2010
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@preaction	if we move to nginx, should we also start doing ESI? it would mean writing or updating an ESI plugin for nginx, but it would make many http accelerators very very happy	00:40
SDuensin_	WTF is ESI?	00:42
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@preaction	Edge-Side Includes. it lets a proxy cache the entire page with <esi:*> directives, then just request the esi stuff as dynamic	00:42
@preaction	so like if your site had only a "Hello <user>", it would only fetch THAT for each page load	00:42
@preaction	or it would fetch only the navs	00:43
@preaction	basically, the dynamic part that may change with different users or different times viewing the same page, but the rest is just cached	00:43
@preaction	akamai uses it, which would mean webgui sites could run on akamai's CDN	00:44
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2fe34a2 / t/ProfileField.t : more ProfileField tests -	00:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1aeb75b / (4 files in 3 dirs): Fix POD whitespace problems. -	00:52
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * r40d11e8 / (5 files in 5 dirs): more sorting options for SyndicatedContent - http://bit.ly/c1Og83	01:05
+perlDreamer	He even wrote tests!	01:07
@frodwith	how else would I know if it works?	01:18
@frodwith	:-p	01:18
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12490 /translations/German/German/ (PayDriver_PayPalStd.pm Asset_WikiMaster.pm): Updating German on translation server	01:22
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12491 /translations/German/German/PayDriver_PayPalStd.pm: Updating German on translation server	01:22
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1c4ea8e / t/ProfileField.t : more ProfileField tests - http://bit.ly/a9oIaP	01:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7032e86 / (lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm t/SQL.t t/User.t): Change cache strategy for User.t. Fix setRow in SQL.pm to accept overrides in row identifiers. - http://bit.ly/b5daGj	01:51
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+patspam	perlDreamer: ping	03:18
+patspam	got users reporting that wg site email footer not included in emails	03:20
+patspam	my guess it's broken email clients	03:20
+patspam	multipart email: html contents + text/plain footer	03:20
+patspam	gmail and thunderbird show it fine	03:20
+patspam	time to boot up a windows vm and try outlook	03:21
+patspam	yes indeed	03:25
+patspam	outlook doesn't show the footer, adds it as a .txt attachment instead	03:26
+patspam	example at: https://gist.github.com/c25b1c0b5d2e7cc97ccf	03:39
+patspam	anyone think this is a bug? or reasonable behaviour?	03:39
@preaction	perhaps we should also send "content-disposition: inline"?	03:40
+patspam	that sounds promising	03:41
+patspam	looks like outlook might ignore that though: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/814111	03:42
+perlDreamer	it's definitely a bug	03:44
+perlDreamer	the user should install thunderbird immediately	03:44
+patspam	heh	03:44
+perlDreamer	and here I thought you wanted to talk about something important	03:44
+perlDreamer	like the psgi merge	03:44
+patspam	oh yeah!	03:44
+patspam	been too busy to think about that for the past 24hrs	03:45
+perlDreamer	All of Session/*.t are passing	03:45
+patspam	in 8?	03:45
+perlDreamer	yes	03:45
+patspam	ok, let's set the bar for merging psgi	03:45
+patspam	all the same tests passing	03:45
+patspam	plus..?	03:45
+perlDreamer	okay	03:45
+patspam	I started adding some psgi specific tests	03:46
+perlDreamer	that's good	03:46
+patspam	most apache request/response stuff isn't tested	03:46
+perlDreamer	can we say minimum 75% test coverage of the new psgi code?	03:46
+patspam	ok	03:46
+patspam	there isn't a whole lot of new code	03:46
+perlDreamer	well, in that case	03:46
+perlDreamer	lets say minimum 90% coverage of new code	03:47
+perlDreamer	:D	03:47
+patspam	the stuff that really needs tests is all the apache req/response stuff that needs to be ported to Plack req/response methods	03:47
+patspam	there's likely to be lots of easily fixable bugs in there	03:47
+patspam	but I haven't got enough time to do all that on my own	03:47
+perlDreamer	I think I can help with that	03:48
+patspam	awesome	03:48
+perlDreamer	unless there's another emergency like last week	03:48
+perlDreamer	and the week before	03:48
+patspam	I hear ya	03:48
+patspam	the question is, do we require all that stuff to be tested before we merge?	03:48
+perlDreamer	definitely	03:48
+perlDreamer	that way we can pick up merge problems with the tests	03:48
+patspam	there won't be merge problems, since psgi is tracking 8	03:49
+patspam	e.g. it should be a fast-foward merge	03:50
+perlDreamer	okay	03:50
+perlDreamer	so what's the status of the psgi branch?	03:50
+patspam	heh so to rephrase the above question, should wg8 devs be shielded from req/response bugs?	03:51
+perlDreamer	there are only 4 wg8 devs	03:51
+patspam	exactly	03:51
+patspam	status.. untouched for past 10 days	03:51
+patspam	by me at least	03:51
@preaction	once it's merged, we're all responsible	03:51
+patspam	exactly =p	03:52
+perlDreamer	I think it would still be best to have the tests in place before we merge	03:52
+perlDreamer	maybe not for full coverage	03:52
+patspam	yeah I think you're probably right	03:52
+perlDreamer	but to cover base functionality	03:52
+patspam	but if you can help me with the new tests that'd be ace	03:52
+patspam	I don't want momentum to drop off with it so close to being ready	03:52
+perlDreamer	won't we also need to change WebGUI::PseudoRequest into something else?	03:52
+patspam	it will disappear	03:53
+patspam	Plack::Test	03:53
+perlDreamer	that's still a lot of test rework	03:53
+patspam	maybe we can refactor WebGUI::PseudoRequest as a first step	03:54
+perlDreamer	Plack::Test is still request/response based	03:54
+perlDreamer	none of the PseudoRequest code works like that	03:54
+perlDreamer	maybe it's better that it works that way	03:55
+perlDreamer	but none of the code that is tested will return response objects	03:55
+perlDreamer	there ought to be some good examples in Session/Url.t	03:57
+patspam	I think it will fall out nicely	03:57
+patspam	Url.t creates a PseudoRequest and stores it in $session->{_request}	03:58
+perlDreamer	which we don't really need anymore	03:58
+patspam	instead, we can create a real WebGUI::Session::Request	03:58
+perlDreamer	the manual work isn't needed anymore because it's done for us by WebGUI::Test	03:59
+perlDreamer	okay, so we create a real WebGUI::Session::Request	03:59
+perlDreamer	but how does it get a request object that we can manipulate?	03:59
+patspam	WebGUI::Session::Request isa Plack::Request	03:59
+patspam	that's the response object	03:59
+patspam	er, request	04:00
+patspam	instead of being some funky xs apache thing it's a pure perl object	04:00
+patspam	created from a simple $env hash	04:00
+perlDreamer	that will be nice	04:00
+perlDreamer	and the resultant object is rw?	04:00
+patspam	sure	04:00
+patspam	but most likely you wouldn't modify the request object	04:01
+patspam	because so easy to create a new one on demand	04:01
+patspam	Plack::Request makes its accessors read-only	04:01
+perlDreamer	so we should have some sugar in WebGUI::Test for making new request objects in the session	04:02
+patspam	yeah something like that	04:02
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Test->reRequest($session, %newHash);	04:02
+patspam	similar to the way Plack::Test lets you do it with HTTP::Request/Response objects	04:02
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+patspam	Plack::Test is pretty cool in that by setting environment variables you can get it to run the requests through an actual plack server of your choice	04:04
+perlDreamer	I need to go run some errands, but I'll keep thinking about this	04:06
+patspam	cool, ttyl	04:06
+Radix_	So.. apt-get in ubuntu server.. or wre - hard choice	04:51
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+Radix_	apt-get webgui on lucid:	05:07
+Radix_	webgui: Depends: libpoe-component-client-http-perl (>= 0.88) but it is not installable	05:07
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+Radix_	debian sid works fine though	05:30
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@preaction	Radix_: i think you need to send a message to the masters of the universe (motu@ubuntu.org iirc)	05:33
+Radix_	looks like the libpoe component has either been removed or no longer available or something.. that's the only dependency missing	05:34
+Radix_	okey.. need some advice.. what's the best way to migrate a 7.0.8 version of webgui to 7.8.18	05:37
+Radix_	I have an existing site with 6738 assets, 287 templates, 15551 users, and 1993 groups	05:38
@preaction	the normal way: stop at the highest 7.0, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4, 7.5, 7.6, 7.7, and then 7.8 versions	05:38
@preaction	and be prepared for template changes	05:38
+perlDreamer	with all the stop versions in the middle	05:39
+perlDreamer	I started a wiki page to keep track of stop version, but it only goes back to 7.5	05:39
+Radix_	heh	05:39
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/wiki/stop-versions	05:40
+Radix_	stop versions are?	05:40
@preaction	versions you have to stop at	05:40
+Radix_	oh.. page explains	05:40
+perlDreamer	:)	05:40
+perlDreamer	Radix_: if you learn about any other ones, could you keep good notes and maybe update the wiki page?	05:40
+Radix_	haha.. yeah sure	05:40
+Radix_	I'm going omg.. do I really want to do this atm	05:41
+Radix_	will latest WRE run all of the versions from 7.1-7.8?	05:42
+perlDreamer	no	05:42
+perlDreamer	there are JSON problems in 7.4.3	05:42
+Radix_	so I'll need to step up versions of wre too then	05:43
+perlDreamer	not necessarily, just perl modules	05:44
+Radix_	and how would I know what to use and what not?	05:44
+Radix_	why is the upgrade path for webgui so insanely complicated still?	05:44
@preaction	... because we have one	05:45
+perlDreamer	well, to be fair, since 7.5 there is only one "extra" stop version	05:45
+perlDreamer	and that's 7.7.22	05:45
@preaction	if you were on any other system, you'd be dumping and remerging sites by now	05:45
+perlDreamer	otherwise, there's just one stop point per minor version	05:45
+perlDreamer	oy, something in 8 is badly broken	05:50
+perlDreamer	it's wiping out groupNames	05:50
@preaction	fun	05:53
@preaction	maybe that's why version tag names are missing too	05:54
+perlDreamer	I didn't know that those parts of WebGUI were touched in 8	05:54
+perlDreamer	but I'm finding lots of little things	05:54
+perlDreamer	like the bug in setRow	05:54
+perlDreamer	If we had time, I'd love to shut down WebGUI 8 for 2 days, and fix every broken bug and test	05:54
+perlDreamer	then we could start running test regressions	05:55
@preaction	well, i'm stalled until i can fix the problems with version tags and committing	05:55
+perlDreamer	they seem to work in WebGUI8	05:58
+perlDreamer	can you revert to find out what's changed in your branch?	05:58
@preaction	no, wayyyyy too far ahead. lot of work. i think i know what happened (i changed getEditForm and processPropertiesFromFormPost)	06:01
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re830e92 / t/User.t : Update test for new cache system. - http://bit.ly/avH1oy	06:08
+perlDreamer	this could supersede that kind of work	06:17
+perlDreamer	Users and Groups are both broken	06:18
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+perlDreamer	preaction: could you please run the User.t test and tell me if it fails for you?	06:37
+perlDreamer	preaction, I think I know why you're having problems	06:43
+perlDreamer	if I'm right, it should be fixed in about 15 minutes	06:43
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rad88c37 / lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm : Revert back to the old setRow that handles sparse updates, like the one used by Group. - http://bit.ly/cRMMP5	06:49
+perlDreamer	I'm going to pack it in for tonight	06:56
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rae43a10 / t/User.t : Update this test for the new caching system. - http://bit.ly/9BPyMi	06:59
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CIA-104	webgui: martin master * rcc7b3fe / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.9.4-7.9.5.pl : Fix a bug in upgrade script where session was not passed. - http://bit.ly/d31dkk	14:03
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ckotil	Good Morning	16:42
ckotil	im looking at my show running workflows page, and ive got a bunch of suspended workflows named (no title). Id like to just delete them, but I cant find them in the database anywhere. any idea where I should look?	16:43
SDuensin	FrIdAy!	16:46
+MrHairgrease	ckotil	16:51
+MrHairgrease	they should be in the WorkflowActivityINstance table	16:51
+MrHairgrease	or somthing like that	16:52
ckotil	ive scoured those tables.	16:54
ckotil	even dumped the db and grepped for the instanceId i see in the show running workflows page.	16:54
+MrHairgrease	weird	16:54
+MrHairgrease	maybe spectre caches some stuff and has gotten out of sync somehow?	16:54
ckotil	yeah, so i dont understand how these siuspended workflows are even sticking around. unless spectre has a hold on them	16:55
+MrHairgrease	try crtl-f5 on the show running workflows page	16:55
+MrHairgrease	if that doen't help see if restarting spectre does	16:55
ckotil	k	16:55
ckotil	the restart did it	16:57
+MrHairgrease	ok	16:58
+MrHairgrease	dunnno what caused this though	16:58
+MrHairgrease	did you recently upgrade?	16:58
ckotil	i added a new activity im working on to the hourly workflow so i can run it manually via the scheduler. well i had a bug in the activity and it caused the workflow to error	16:58
+MrHairgrease	ah	16:58
ckotil	when i ran another instance of the hourly workflow it got out of sync	16:58
+MrHairgrease	that's prolly what caused the problem	16:59
ckotil	then i have to manually run each activity. when its done it shows up as no title	16:59
ckotil	when the workflow has finished all the activities that is	16:59
ckotil	there's probably a better way to develop and debug a workflow activity, but i dunno what it is :)	16:59
+MrHairgrease	yeah, let other people do ot for you =)	17:00
ckotil	i can do small things.	17:00
ckotil	the activity im working on will email users about uncommitted version tags	17:01
ckotil	hopefully i can contribute it	17:01
+MrHairgrease	you do take into account that activities can only run for about a minute at a time right?	17:02
ckotil	i wasnt aware of that.	17:03
+MrHairgrease	just grep for getTTL in WebGUI/Workflow?activity	17:04
+MrHairgrease	for examples	17:04
ckotil	but this activity just queries for all uncommitted tags, then loops through them to get the owner, tagId, and email. then sends an email with a link. shouldnt take that long. even if there are 20 uncommitted tags	17:04
+MrHairgrease	true	17:04
+MrHairgrease	espescially if you just queue the emails instead of sending them	17:05
+MrHairgrease	are you returning COMPLETE?	17:05
ckotil	ah, queuing, good idea.	17:05
ckotil	ok, i see the ttl, i can add that to my activity	17:05
+MrHairgrease	sure	17:05
ckotil	yes.	17:05
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carogray	forms question:Is it possible for a questions with a required answer of either yes or no, not to have a default answer?	18:05
carogray	I want to ask people if it is safe to get back to them? I want to make sure that they answer question - do not submit the form without answering. At the same time I do not want to have a pre-filled answer already	18:06
carogray	We could miss out on helping some people if the answer is no, and if the default answer is yes, we could be endangering others.	18:07
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+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease!	18:14
+perlDreamer	Greasings, euro-hacker	18:14
+MrHairgrease	May the Grease be with you!	18:14
+perlDreamer	is that offer for Shop/Cart help still good?	18:15
+perlDreamer	I don't have an easy way to verify the changes I made to the Ogone plugin, in 7.9.4	18:15
+perlDreamer	I don't suppose you could do some kind of test checkout with it, to make sure it still all works correctly?	18:16
+MrHairgrease	Today I won't have time for that anymore. But I can check next wednesday	18:17
+MrHairgrease	is that ok?	18:18
+MrHairgrease	I don't have a test account handy, so I'll have to request one	18:18
+perlDreamer	that's fine. You're way more familiar with it than I am.	18:18
+MrHairgrease	Where did you get that idea =)	18:19
+perlDreamer	It's an acknowledgement of your superior sub-micron and programming skillz	18:19
+perlDreamer	Have you read the release notes and gotchas for 7.9.4?	18:20
+perlDreamer	The cart is now a 2 screen process	18:20
+perlDreamer	in screen 1, you enter in all billing and (optionally) shipping info	18:20
+perlDreamer	you also select the shipping method, and the billing gateway.	18:21
+perlDreamer	then you hit the checkout button	18:21
+perlDreamer	in screen 2, you get a summary of all charges, and a checkout button	18:21
+MrHairgrease	ok	18:21
+MrHairgrease	I've looked into it a bit	18:21
+MrHairgrease	but I'll go through it more thouroughly next wednesday	18:22
+MrHairgrease	anyway	18:23
+MrHairgrease	gotta go	18:23
+MrHairgrease	bye	18:23
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym		19:14
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@preaction	we need to clean up the WebGUI github	22:40
@preaction	DataTable needs gone. crypt needs moved to a personal fork. fb needs gone. flux needs moved to personal fork. gh-pages i don't even know what it is. improved-asset-state needs moved to a personal fork or merged into mainline. plebgui needs moved to personal fork. psgi personal fork. template_usage dunno what is. thingy_defaultView_maxEntries seriously? usereditgroup what?	22:45
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+perlDreamer	template_usage is useful	23:25
+perlDreamer	it lets you diff changes in templates across different WebGUI versions	23:25
@preaction	so it should be merged then?	23:26
@preaction	really, if we can get wgdev to be WebGUI::Command, then we can enhance the wgpkg format to accept the wgdev file format	23:26
+perlDreamer	no, not merged	23:28
+perlDreamer	just keep track of it	23:28
+perlDreamer	in fact, it's a little out of date	23:28
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I need a brief overview of the WebGUI::Paths change	23:39
+perlDreamer	Session->open doesn't need a root dir anymore	23:39
+perlDreamer	All methods in WebGUI::Paths are class methods	23:39
+perlDreamer	anything else?	23:39
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd0b17ac / lib/WebGUI/Asset/EMSSubmission.pm : Update EMSSubmission to Moose. - http://bit.ly/chok8c	23:43
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5992a1d / sbin/changeIobStatus.pl : Update changeIobStatus for WebGUI::Paths - http://bit.ly/djhH8D	23:43
+perlDreamer	first complete test suite run on WebGUI 8 is running	23:48
+perlDreamer	it has at least half a chance of finishing...	23:48
--- Day changed Sat May 08 2010
+perlDreamer	for anyone who's curious: http://gist.github.com/394002	00:14
+perlDreamer	there's still a lot of work to be done	00:14
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r22f9a20 / t/i18n/help.t : Update this test for new code in Operation/Help - http://bit.ly/aCpN4O	01:03
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rea17973 / (t/Cache.t t/Cache/Database.t t/Cache/FileCache.t): There aren't any cache modules any longer. - http://bit.ly/bAPMpn	01:03
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra29c6ae / t/mandatory_template_vars.t : Update mandatory_template_vars test for new Asset code. -	01:09
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r45e1c01 / t/Help/compiled.t : Update Help/compiled for new operational code. - http://bit.ly/cgoEUp	01:12
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc8075d9 / lib/WebGUI/Form/Email.pm : Add a missing module use line. - http://bit.ly/aD67Gc	01:21
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SDuensin	Evening!	03:11
@preaction	perlbot .ar	03:15
perlbot	preaction: .ar is Argentina	03:15
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+perlDreamer	Whatssup, SDuensin?	03:40
SDuensin	Reading about cool network stuff and dealing with an overtired 1 year old.	03:41
SDuensin	http://www.ntop.org/n2n/	03:41
+perlDreamer	http://www.skorks.com/2010/05/what-every-developer-should-know-about-urls/?	03:45
SDuensin	Nice. Not as cool as my URL though. :-)	03:48
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9162bd6 / t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm : Return the correct path for the WebGUI lib directory in WebGUI::Test. Should probably just use WebGUI::Path instead. - http://bit.ly/bvmFMs	03:53
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6154044 / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Class.pm : when using goto on objects, must restore $self into @_... - http://bit.ly/aod6lp	03:56
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r855b59f / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Asset.pm : Similar changes as to Definition::Meta::Class in --::Asset - http://bit.ly/aVQGbw	03:58
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2fad20d / lib/WebGUI/FilePump/Bundle.pm : Exception handling when trying to get assets for their content. - http://bit.ly/cgGCMf	04:02
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r361299e / t/Storage.t : Use the right location for the WebGUI.pm fake file in Storage testing. - http://bit.ly/cGAvdZ	04:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3d34cf3 / t/VersionTag.t : Fix typos in VersionTag.t - http://bit.ly/9KV9fi	04:18
+perlDreamer	preaction: all VersionTag.t tests are passing	04:18
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1450d13 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix POD problems -	04:28
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CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r30ed305 / (lib/WebGUI/Session/Url.pm lib/WebGUI/i18n/English.pm): put all url validation in WebGUI::Session::Url instead of i18n - http://bit.ly/cQfqbc	20:24
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r04ee8f0 / t/Group.t : Fix the Group tests. - http://bit.ly/bLXyfJ	23:51
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--- Day changed Mon May 10 2010
+perlDreamer	Haarg: seeing Moosey weirdness: http://gist.github.com/395400	00:00
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0bef2b2 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Change the core to use newById instead of new. - http://bit.ly/a3DlC8	00:31
+perlDreamer	nm, that error is caused by having a method called new	00:33
+perlDreamer	like the one installed WebGUI::Test when we mock asset instanciators	00:37
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8272c2b / t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm : Do not intstall a wrapper around new in Asset.pm - http://bit.ly/9Z84fH	00:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc471cd1 / t/Shop/AddressBook.t : Fix a test I broke. - http://bit.ly/aiUInJ	00:59
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r10d96d3 / t/Help/related.t : Update help for new operational code. - http://bit.ly/cVlUFJ	01:06
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2c80c50 / lib/WebGUI/Macro/FileUrl.pm : Test assets for valid methods before calling them. - http://bit.ly/bm0MZV	01:06
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rab64760 / lib/WebGUI/Group.pm : Add missing module use line to Group.pm - http://bit.ly/a1QURL	01:08
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4ecc8dc / lib/WebGUI/AssetLineage.pm : AssetLineage should throw exceptions. - http://bit.ly/dkzZyq	01:28
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra2feddc / lib/WebGUI/Macro/PickLanguage.pm : Exception handling. - http://bit.ly/aUXtLu	01:35
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r97d5caa / lib/WebGUI/Macro/Thumbnail.pm : Exception handling for Thumbnail macro. - http://bit.ly/attTrb	01:37
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8bbf758 / t/Shop/ShipDriver/FlatRate.t : Update FlatRate test. - http://bit.ly/9gsazd	02:15
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r69a1b4e / t/Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutLowStock.t : Update test for new asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/dbPbzP	03:25
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd57ee62 / t/Workflow/Activity/RemoveOldCarts.t : Fixed this test. - http://bit.ly/9tjuXZ	03:32
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r057260f / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm : fix a ->get conversion typo. - http://bit.ly/9OZPLg	04:04
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5be85b9 / t/Asset/Wobject/Survey.t : Cache update for a test - http://bit.ly/d2DQA6	04:10
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r96108ff / t/Group.t : Remove an old cache line. - http://bit.ly/bjNAxU	04:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r95fe1e6 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Module use, and cache updates. - http://bit.ly/d0UmEx	04:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r923e03f / (lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): Add a method for getViewCacheKey. Update number of tests. - http://bit.ly/cw8e7N	05:03
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4c3b615 / t/Asset/AssetLineage.t : Update this test for exception handling. - http://bit.ly/bJja5q	05:08
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8be3592 / lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm : Drop session from get data generated by exportAssetData - http://bit.ly/cyNy3M	05:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra203ab4 / t/Asset/AssetPackage.t : Use a static time to remove 2 second sleep. Update test for new asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/ciILPu	05:17
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * recf1c52 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/EventManagementSystem.pm : Updates for Moose. - http://bit.ly/clKW83	07:04
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r50b2b11 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Updated to Moose, and test updates. - http://bit.ly/b71vsi	07:04
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+perlDreamer	Haarg: late night ping	07:38
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7ba3051 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Snippet.pm t/Asset/Snippet.t): Set a trigger for the snippet. Update tests for snippet packing. - http://bit.ly/boO5k3	07:45
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I've decided for all future bugs, I'm going to come into IRC	07:45
+perlDreamer	and try and ask you a question	07:45
+perlDreamer	you just ignore me for about an hour	07:45
+perlDreamer	and I'll have it figured out by then	07:45
+perlDreamer	if not, then I'll ask again, and then you can answer it	07:45
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc2cbec2 / t/VersionTag.t : Attempt to make this test more robust. - http://bit.ly/bQlhPv	08:32
+perlDreamer	There are only about 74 failing tests in WebGUI8	08:34
+perlDreamer	some of them are collateral damage	08:34
+perlDreamer	where the tests are sensitive and need a sterile environment to run as planned	08:35
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12492 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (4 files): Updating Dutch on translation server	14:21
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12493 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_WikiMaster.pm: Updating Dutch on translation server	15:56
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SDuensin	Somebody wake me when it's over.	16:34
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+bartjol	SDuensin: what must be over?	16:42
SDuensin	Work!	16:42
+bartjol	oh, I'll be sleeping by then I guess	16:42
SDuensin	:-P	16:42
+bartjol	just 1.7 hours left for today	16:43
SDuensin	I just got here.	16:43
SDuensin	So, like 7.1 for me. :-)	16:43
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12494 /translations/German/German/ (PayDriver_Cash.pm PayDriver.pm): Updating German on translation server	17:41
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+perlDreamer	good morning, WebGUI folks	18:12
Haarg	morning perlDreamer	18:12
@preaction	morning!	18:12
@frodwith	mornin'	18:12
+perlDreamer	we're down to only 74 failing test files in WebGUI 8	18:12
+bartjol	afternoon	18:14
+bartjol	good	18:15
+bartjol	how much is that in percentage?	18:15
+bartjol	just interested	18:15
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12495 /translations/German/German/ (PayDriver_ExpressCheckout.pm PayDriver_Ogone.pm): Updating German on translation server	18:15
+perlDreamer	there are 324 files, so about 20%	18:16
+perlDreamer	a lot of those are simple cases of updating tests, or WebGUI packages	18:17
+perlDreamer	some of them are serious bugs caused by WebGUI 8	18:17
+bartjol	all in all, it sounds quite reasonable	18:17
+bartjol	good job fellows!	18:17
+bartjol	back to my failing filepump thingy, let's read the bug report	18:18
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r19e497f / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix some copy/paste errors in the Cash i18n. Fixes bug #11561 - http://bit.ly/bCx6UO	18:20
+perlDreamer	failing filepump?	18:20
+bartjol	http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/error-could-not-load-webguicontentfilepump	18:23
+bartjol	it was a forum post	18:23
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * ra7a522c / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix copy paste errors in the Cash i18n. Fixes bug #11561. - http://bit.ly/aWhbMo	18:24
+bartjol	not sure whether it appeared earlier (did an upgrade from 7.7.22 to 7.9.4)	18:25
+bartjol	but I see I do miss perl modules	18:27
+bartjol	adding, then, I'll let you know the result	18:28
+perlDreamer	I'm fixing core bugs all day	18:32
+perlDreamer	so if you find something, let me know	18:32
+perlDreamer	better yet, post a patch ;)	18:32
+bartjol	well, if it is just due to not reading gotcha's, I'll just have to tell him that	18:33
+bartjol	it might be that the gotcha's miss some modules, because I saw them in testenvironment, but not encountered them in the gotcha	18:34
+perlDreamer	that could definitely be a problem	18:35
+perlDreamer	we've had too much of that recenty	18:35
+perlDreamer	recently	18:35
+bartjol	mmm, CHI	18:35
+bartjol	seems to be a problem, lot of dpendancies too	18:36
+perlDreamer	CHI is a massive problem	18:36
+perlDreamer	HUGE	18:36
+perlDreamer	it requires Moose	18:36
+bartjol	ah	18:36
@preaction	so does Config::JSON	18:36
+perlDreamer	Config::JSON's Moose version is only a requirement for WebGUI 8	18:36
+perlDreamer	not 7	18:36
+bartjol	I do have moose	18:37
+perlDreamer	but if you do a new install, you get it anyway	18:37
@preaction	if you install the latest Config::JSON, you install moose	18:37
+bartjol	0.93	18:37
+bartjol	well, I installed 3 of the 4 missing modules, I'll have a look whether that specific error is gone now	18:38
+bartjol	mmm, after a restart I don't get it anymore	18:39
@preaction	i think the real problem is preloading modules that never get used, and thus preloading all their dependencies	18:40
+bartjol	I don't see it in my other install, the difference was Javascript::Packer an DateTime::Format::HTTP	18:43
+bartjol	I thought those were included in koen's beta wre, apparently not	18:46
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+bartjol	I have reported a bug about the missing in the gotcha	18:54
+perlDreamer	I shall fix it!	18:56
+perlDreamer	uh, after I try to eat something	18:56
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+bartjol	hey kathy	18:57
dreamersgirl	Hi!	18:57
dreamersgirl	How are ya?	18:58
+bartjol	well, a bit hungry actually	18:59
+bartjol	but I had some laugs when Koen fell in the water last friday	18:59
+bartjol	too bad it was a bit coldish to do it with all his clothes on	18:59
dreamersgirl	how'd that happen?	19:00
dreamersgirl	and where?	19:00
+bartjol	he slipped on a boat during a sailing race	19:00
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+bartjol	in Friesland	19:00
dreamersgirl	Oh, bummer.	19:00
Haarg	morning patspam	19:00
dreamersgirl	Did you get any pictures, though?	19:00
+bartjol	it was around here: http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&ie=UTF8&ll=52.924946,5.789108&spn=0.086205,0.239468&z=13	19:01
+bartjol	no pics	19:03
+patspam	hola!	19:04
+patspam	haarg: moved house again on the weekend	19:05
+patspam	spent the last 2 days cleaning	19:05
dreamersgirl	cleaning = not fun	19:05
+patspam	but on the upside- I now have decent coffee shops within walking distance	19:05
dreamersgirl	with free wifi?	19:05
+patspam	dreamersgirl - yeah my back is sore now!	19:05
+patspam	I think so.. although I prefer to escape in the middle of the day with a book and stay offline	19:06
+patspam	dreamersgirl = kathy?>	19:06
dreamersgirl	i've become rather fond of coffeeshops with wifi	19:06
dreamersgirl	:) yes	19:07
+bartjol	yes	19:07
+patspam	hi!	19:07
dreamersgirl	Hi!	19:07
+patspam	coming to madison this year?	19:07
dreamersgirl	There's a great one near our house called Insomnia.	19:07
+patspam	very appropriate ;)	19:07
dreamersgirl	Have to see. That's finals week for me, but I don't think I have any finals!	19:07
+patspam	ah	19:07
dreamersgirl	It also depends on whether or not we have someone to watch kids.	19:07
+patspam	Helen is planning on coming on the last day and staying for the weekend	19:08
dreamersgirl	You still thinking of coming to OSCON?	19:08
+bartjol	eeh how "required" is CHI?	19:08
+perlDreamer	bartjol, optional	19:08
@preaction	bartjol: it's not	19:08
+bartjol	ah	19:08
+patspam	didn't get an email from them about my Healthcare Tech talk but it's showing as "not accepted" so I think not :(	19:09
+bartjol	good	19:09
@preaction	hence my desire to see unused WebGUI modules NOT preloaded	19:09
+perlDreamer	bummer, patspam	19:09
dreamersgirl	:(	19:09
+bartjol	theni'll let it pass for now	19:09
+perlDreamer	preaction, but how do you know if they're not used?	19:09
+patspam	yeah, really sucks!	19:09
+perlDreamer	you'd have to scan every config file	19:09
@preaction	the config file	19:09
@preaction	and we DO that during preload.perl	19:09
@preaction	we preload them	19:10
dreamersgirl	Patspam: if I make it to the WUC, you'll have to give me a dumbed-down, nutshell version of your Healthcare Tech Talk. Sounds interesting.	19:10
dreamersgirl	Much more interesting than the Healthcare talk I'm currently listening to. :)	19:11
+bartjol	aah. listening and IM-ing again? bad girl ;)	19:11
+patspam	I thought I'd hit on the secret success strategy of NOT mentioning Perl or WebGUI in my proposal	19:11
dreamersgirl	she's a great speaker, just an unfortunate topic	19:12
dreamersgirl	"Oregon Nurse Practice Act: Division 47 Rules for Registered Nurse Delegation"	19:12
+perlDreamer	pay attention, dreamersgirl	19:16
+perlDreamer	there will be a test	19:16
dreamersgirl	There was. I passed. :0	19:16
+bartjol	mmm, testEnvironment borks over the missing CHI, quite irritating	19:16
dreamersgirl	Part of the test last Friday talked about delegation. Joanne at the Virginia Garcia Clinic taught me all I know	19:16
dreamersgirl	bartjol: are you coming to the WUC this year?	19:17
+perlDreamer	it would appear that the only running I'm doing today is into the bathroom...	19:17
dreamersgirl	Oh, no!	19:18
+perlDreamer	good thing there are no children here	19:18
+perlDreamer	pushups would be handed out gratuitously	19:18
+bartjol	dreamersgirl: it is my intention	19:18
+perlDreamer	dirty little germ spreading offspring!	19:18
dreamersgirl	:)	19:18
+bartjol	but my environment has to be cooperating	19:19
+bartjol	now, it is dinner time	19:19
@preaction	is there a way we can get rid of WebGUI::Pluggable? it's annoying me today (and most days)	19:20
dreamersgirl	I say get rid of it. :) Annoying preaction is strictly not allowed.	19:20
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+bartjol	yeah, well I don't mind if doug's annoyed, I like it most when he is annoyed by Koen (less change I am :))	19:21
+bartjol	?	19:21
+bartjol	who is scrottie, did I miss something?	19:22
@preaction	bartjol: new hire. but he can introduce himself if he's so inclined	19:22
+bartjol	new pb employee?	19:22
@scrottie	hi bartjol	19:23
+bartjol	yeah, but my hunger isn't fading	19:23
+bartjol	hi	19:23
+perlDreamer	scrottie, bartjol is part of the Dutch team. He hacks, helps people and does the Dutch translation	19:23
Haarg	hello scrottie	19:23
@scrottie	hi Haarg	19:23
@preaction	awesome. WebGUI::pluggable doesn't like modules with more than one package (or a test script that includes its own test package)	19:24
+bartjol	cool stuff :)	19:24
+perlDreamer	modules shouldn't have more than one package. It's not WGBP	19:24
Haarg	there are lots of places that will run into problems like that preaction	19:25
@preaction	it's a test script that includes its own package.	19:25
+bartjol	well, have fun	19:25
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@scrottie	bartjol, I haven't technically started yet. I wanted to wrap up some personal projects. But I thought I'd come soak up some flavor here. my official start date is May 17.	19:25
+perlDreamer	packages should be put into t/lib/WebGUI...	19:25
Haarg	easiest solution is probably $INC{'WebGUI/Blah.pm'} = 1	19:25
@preaction	bah. it's 4 damned lines!	19:25
@preaction	ooooooooh good idear	19:25
@scrottie	eek.	19:25
@preaction	no?	19:26
+perlDreamer	Test::Mock ?	19:26
@scrottie	no, not that... bartjol leaving abruptly = eek.	19:26
Haarg	Test::MockObject->fake_module would possibly do it	19:26
Haarg	but it often refuses to	19:26
@preaction	refuses. i like that...	19:27
Haarg	well, it won't work for packages that are already loaded	19:28
Haarg	but it also won't work for a package with a sub-package that is already loaded	19:28
Haarg	not certain if that is a bug or not	19:28
@preaction	setting the $INC{} works, and i'll leave a comment for posterity	19:28
@preaction	97.7% coverage! yay!	19:30
@preaction	now if only we got rid of old definition in form controls in favor of new definition. that'll probably have to be one of the cleanup tasks	19:31
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * ra3266eb / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/Spectre/Workflow.pm): If a sitename is passed, filter based on sitename for spectre status. Fixes bug #11541. - http://bit.ly/bnOSd0	19:56
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re6ab688 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/Spectre/Workflow.pm): If a sitename is passed, filter based on sitename for spectre status. Fixes bug #11541. - http://bit.ly/9QeSgS	19:57
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rfc59716 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm): When a version tag is deleted, delete it's workflow instance, if it exists. Fixes bug #11544. - http://bit.ly/ar5qAN	20:40
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra03e13e / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm): When a version tag is deleted, delete it's workflow instance, if it exists. Fixes bug #11544. - http://bit.ly/9jaLKB	20:43
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r007391d / (3 files in 3 dirs): Label the form field for entering in sub-keywords. - http://bit.ly/8YyIqD	20:55
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r06d61ec / (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: UserList asset has SQL injection bug - http://bit.ly/bNN1JG	21:07
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CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * r87f5df5 / (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: UserList asset has SQL injection bug - http://bit.ly/dfiKTZ	21:08
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * ra3da060 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/UserList.pm : forgot to pass param - http://bit.ly/9S4dNA	21:13
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * rc11d195 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/UserList.pm : forgot to pass param - http://bit.ly/dchPkk	21:13
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dionak	perlDreamer, I'm running into an issue that you might be able to help me with. I think it's more of a combination of the rich text editor and RSS than story manager.	21:25
+perlDreamer	what's the issue?	21:25
dionak	We have a story mgr setup on www.mcpolymers.com/news and a RSS feed on the homepage for the story mgr	21:25
dionak	when i edit an article, I always get a line break in the source of the html for the article which cuts off the text of the first paragraph on the home RSS feed	21:26
dionak	Can't seem to resolve this	21:26
dionak	and the issue is starting to spread into other articles	21:26
dionak	it's a pita :)	21:26
dionak	The syndicated content asset doesn't seem to read HTML markup	21:27
dionak	and treat the first html paragraph like a full paragraph. if a line break exists in the html src, that ends the first paragraph	21:27
+perlDreamer	which news article has a line break in it already?	21:28
dionak	Mallard Creek Polymers, Inc. Participates in Industry Conferences	21:28
dionak	it cuts off after part of a sentence where it says "Take a New Look" in bold	21:28
+perlDreamer	yup, there's the line break	21:29
dionak	on this page, http://www.mcpolymers.com/news, you can see it's happening in multiple articles	21:29
+perlDreamer	and this only happens when an existing article is edited?	21:29
+perlDreamer	which browser/OS ? and which version of WebGUI?	21:30
dionak	that's my current use-case. FF 3.6.3/Mac OS X 10.5	21:30
dionak	checking WG	21:31
+perlDreamer	7.7.22	21:31
dionak	yes	21:31
dionak	is it a bug?	21:32
dionak	or an 'undocumented feature'? ;)	21:32
+perlDreamer	it's yet another reason to replace TinyMCE with YUI Editor	21:33
+perlDreamer	offhand, I'd guess it's a bug in TinyMCE that we'll have to workaround in the SyndicatedContent	21:34
+perlDreamer	in the item_loop in the SC template, which description template variable is being used?	21:34
dionak	descriptionFirstParagraph	21:35
dionak	it looks like \n is being stripped via a regex in SyndicatedContent.pm	21:37
dionak	maybe it needs a \r or \r\n	21:37
dionak	in addition	21:37
dionak	in sub getTemplateVariables	21:38
+perlDreamer	I think that's the problem	21:38
+perlDreamer	the paragraphs are ASCII based, instead of HTML based	21:39
+perlDreamer	are you talking line 295, dionak?	21:40
dionak	in 7.7.22 source on that server, I think it could be done on line 284 for descriptionFirst2paragraphs b/c that's used for the value of descriptionFirstParagraph on the next line down	21:42
dionak	my perl's a bit rusty when it comes to the regex	21:43
+perlDreamer	it's a non-greedy regex, pulling two sets of characters followed by a newline	21:43
+perlDreamer	dionak, it's definitely a bug	21:49
+perlDreamer	because it can make bad HTML without closing tags	21:50
dionak	good point. do you know if tinymce would use \n or \r\n in this case?	21:50
dionak	i'd like to strip that out	21:50
dionak	before it becomes a client issue	21:50
+perlDreamer	I have no idea why it's doing that	21:50
dionak	k, thanks for the help. i'll file it	21:51
dionak	probably needs a test	21:51
dionak	to expose the bug	21:51
+perlDreamer	it wouldn't hurt	21:52
+perlDreamer	and since we can use file based RSS feeds in the SC test, it should be easy to expose	21:52
dionak	um, yea..	21:53
dionak	:)	21:53
dionak	stated like a master tester.	21:54
+perlDreamer	oh, a little testing never hurt anyone	21:54
+perlDreamer	especially someone who writes tests like the Knowmad crew	21:55
dionak	yea, you're right. I'll work on fixing my local install so i can test again.	21:55
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf3d95f9 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Change how the query is persisted in Wiki search results. Fixes bug #11558. - http://bit.ly/dpFDRW	23:23
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rd070da3 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Change how the query is persisted in Wiki search results. Fixes bug #11558. - http://bit.ly/bHT2LD	23:24
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf3010db / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm): Persist data entered by the user in the registration form, but keep falling back to user profile field defaults if no user input is given. Fixes bug #11533. - http://bit.ly/9rFiCI	00:12
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * re401985 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm): Persist data entered by the user in the registration form, but keep falling back to user profile field defaults if no user input is given. Fixes bug #11533. - http://bit.ly/d1hhXd	00:13
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@frodwith	perlDreamer, did you write WebGUI::ProgressBar?	00:47
+perlDreamer	Guilty as charged, frodwith	00:47
@frodwith	perlDreamer++. I like it.	00:47
+perlDreamer	it was really a collaboration between 4 people	00:48
+perlDreamer	rizen, patspam, preaction and me	00:48
@preaction	eh, all i did was say how JS could be used to keep updating the thing	00:48
@frodwith	$_++ for qw(rizen patspam preaction perlDreamer)	00:48
@frodwith	then	00:48
@frodwith	:)	00:49
+perlDreamer	more of WebGUI needs to be updated to use it	00:49
+perlDreamer	yeah, and all JT did was come up the original idea	00:50
+perlDreamer	and all patspam did was show us how to beat the buffering	00:50
+perlDreamer	and when we all worked together, out came something great	00:50
Haarg	preaction, with yui on a cdn, do you have an idea on how you want the API to work?	00:52
@preaction	that will be frodwith's boat. more than likely we'll have a set of JS stuff in every page that will initialize the YUI 3 loader / gallery stuff with the proper variables	00:54
Haarg	we still need a mechanism to determine the URLs to use though	00:55
@preaction	those will be in the config file	00:55
Haarg	two issues with that	00:56
Haarg	one is http vs https	00:56
@preaction	scheme-less URL	00:56
Haarg	second is using the correct version	00:56
Haarg	might make sense to just force people to include the version number in a local copy like the cdn versions do	00:57
@preaction	well, the utility we provide to set up the local copy could do so for them	01:05
Haarg	it would also help with caching	01:06
Haarg	would never have to worry about the browser using outdated yui files	01:06
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+perlDreamer	did we ever make a plan to convert the utility scripts over to being wgd run friendly?	02:07
Haarg	what problems currently exist?	02:11
Haarg	there is also wgd util	02:12
+perlDreamer	that's what I was thinking of	02:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6965611 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Shop/AddressBook.pm): Make the state field required in cart addresses. Fixes bug #11564. - http://bit.ly/dcsgsw	02:15
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r18301e3 / lib/WebGUI/Shop/AddressBook.pm : Make address form fields less sticky. If you want data saved, you must choose the Update address option. - http://bit.ly/bzNjsN	02:44
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+perlDreamer	stoopid flow-through logic cases	03:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r22d6806 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Shop.pm): Better UI for changing addresses. Prevent bad things from happening if the user delete required fields. - http://bit.ly/amol8m	03:19
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbd41360 / (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Shop.pm): Internationalize all cart error messages. - http://bit.ly/dhhnFh	05:22
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd1559c0 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt docs/gotcha.txt): Document new required modules. - http://bit.ly/clCC5y	05:28
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+perlDreamer	preaction, if it's optional, we can always seed preload.exclude	07:32
@preaction	then someone adds the WebGUI::Cache::CHI driver to their config and it's not preloaded	07:33
@preaction	do we add all the cache drivers? preventing preloading of them?	07:33
+perlDreamer	I'd say only the new ones	07:33
+perlDreamer	and if they can access and alter their config file, they can also change preload.exclude	07:34
@preaction	okay, so we let everyone know that "if you want something new, you can't just enable it, you also have to disable the preventing of it preloading"	07:34
+perlDreamer	yes	07:34
@preaction	unless there is no other, better solution, i don't like it	07:35
@preaction	but i'm going to bed, hence the e-mail discussion	07:35
+perlDreamer	read chromatic's recent discussion of LWP::UserAgent	07:36
+perlDreamer	I think it's applicable	07:36
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dc813	can anyone tell me what is the op= to see a password recovery page?	17:21
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ckotil	op=auth;method=emailResetPassword ?	17:30
ckotil	or this op=auth;method=recoverPassword	17:31
dc813	thanks	17:33
dc813	it tells me "The function you are attempting to call is not available for this authentication module"	17:33
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ckotil	yeah i get that too. but im using a custom auth module for my SSO	17:36
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ckotil	in op=editSettings under auth do you have password recovery enabled?	17:38
dc813	yes	17:41
dc813	nm figured it out	17:59
dc813	thanks ckotil	17:59
dc813	i had the auth type set to ldap not webgui	17:59
dc813	thanks for the help	17:59
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SDuensin	Here at last!	18:01
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r67a6664 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Cache/CHI.pm): CHI requires a switch to keep track of cache size. Also, flush should be mapped to CHI's clear method. Fixes bug #11565.	20:11
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+perlDreamer	this is funny: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/websites_stop	21:13
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ckotil	heh	21:25
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@scrottie	(tom oatmeal)++	21:52
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Haarg	oh cool, i just noticed virtualbox can do branching snapshots now	22:30
Haarg	don't have to keep 3 different vms around just for ie	22:30
+perlDreamer	nice!	22:30
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Haarg	perlDreamer, for setRow, i'm thinking we need it to attempt an insert, and if that fails attempt an update	23:11
+perlDreamer	Haarg, if you think that's best, it's okay	23:14
+perlDreamer	but it absolutely must be able to handle sparse data	23:14
+perlDreamer	since there are WebGUI subsystems that use that	23:14
Haarg	yeah	23:14
+perlDreamer	the way that it was working, large parts of WebGUI were broken	23:19
+perlDreamer	so I took the most expedient solution, which was to bring over the code from master	23:19
+perlDreamer	what's wrong with using REPLACE INTO, Haarg/	23:19
Haarg	that won't handle sparse updates	23:20
Haarg	afaik	23:20
+perlDreamer	it won't	23:21
Haarg	might be able to use ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE though	23:21
+perlDreamer	but the whole set of code works, even if the current code doesn't	23:21
+perlDreamer	it only does REPLACE INTO if the key is new	23:22
Haarg	yes, but that doesn't work if there are constraints	23:22
+perlDreamer	what kind of constraints?	23:23
Haarg	foreign keys or other types of things	23:23
+perlDreamer	we don't use any of those now, do we?	23:24
Haarg	we want to	23:24
+perlDreamer	ah, okay	23:24
+perlDreamer	i thought I was missing something	23:24
+perlDreamer	(again)	23:24
Haarg	my initial suggestion of insert or update on failure won't work either	23:24
Haarg	so i guess ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE is going to be the way to go	23:25
+perlDreamer	we should extend the test suite to check the sparse setRow call	23:25
+perlDreamer	I get to work on wg8 tomorrow, and I'll do that first	23:26
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--- Day changed Wed May 12 2010
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+perlDreamer	hm	00:06
+perlDreamer	a public spectre method called "runItNowDamnIt" would be frowned upon, wouldn't it?	00:07
@preaction	prolly	00:07
+perlDreamer	I want a spectre method that can be called by approveVersionTag	00:08
+perlDreamer	it should be a thin wrapper around returnInstanceToRunnableState	00:08
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+patspam	hola	00:51
+perlDreamer	hey, patspam!	00:51
+patspam	I have cafes within walking distance again, wooh!	00:51
+patspam	re: #11560	00:52
+patspam	mail footer not appearing in Outlook due to its handling of multipart/mixed	00:52
+perlDreamer	yes?	00:52
+patspam	it seems that the footer should be concatenated with the email body in Send.pm	00:53
+patspam	rather than using addText()	00:53
+patspam	but for that to work, you want the footer to be in html when the email body is in html	00:53
+patspam	(in Message.pm actually)	00:53
+patspam	WebGUI::Inbox::Message::create	00:54
+perlDreamer	sidebar - preaction: the caching performance needs to be rechecked, since I had to turn on 'is_size_aware' in order to make the Operation/Cache work	00:55
@preaction	i just installed the latest version on the alumni site, and it's still 20% faster	00:55
+perlDreamer	latest as in not released yet?	00:56
@preaction	yes	00:56
+perlDreamer	awesome!	00:56
@preaction	it's more faster because the alumni DB is on app2, and i benched from app1	00:56
+patspam	guh, addText/Html followed by addFooter happens in 9 different places	00:56
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+perlDreamer	patspam, Inbox & Mail/Send are crufty	00:56
@preaction	yep!	00:56
+perlDreamer	preaction, what if addFooter didn't add a footer, but actually appended to the end of addText/Html instead?	00:57
@preaction	what if we didn't use multipart/mixed and instead only used multipart for alternatives?	00:58
+patspam	so how about this.. if it's currently addText($body) followed by addFooter, we turn it into addText($body . getFooter), and if it's addHtml(body) we turn do the same but translate \n into <br>?	00:58
@preaction	what if you addText twice? two footers?	00:59
+patspam	I mean in the places where addFooter is currently being called	00:59
@preaction	shouldn't addFooter be called automatically by send?	00:59
+patspam	should, yes!	01:00
@preaction	so let's fix it that way and anyone who has a problem with footers in outlook because of custom code can fix it that way too?	01:00
+patspam	fix it which way?	01:00
+patspam	make it called automatically?	01:01
Haarg	that's strange that outlook isn't able to handle multipart/mixed at all for signatures. doing that is fairly standard behavior.	01:01
@preaction	well, it is an old version of outlook we're talking about	01:01
+perlDreamer	Haarg: error: expectation of "standard behavior" in conjunction with Microsoft products	01:01
+patspam	I'm testing on Outlook 2007	01:01
@preaction	that's the latest?	01:02
+patspam	no.. there's that weird version with "ribbons"	01:02
+perlDreamer	Outlook 2010	01:03
+perlDreamer	why do we send approval notices to the person who commited a tag, instead of the person who created the tag?	01:05
@preaction	because there may be more than one person who could possible commit the tag	01:06
+patspam	I'll try it in Outlook 2010 and report back	01:06
+perlDreamer	preaction: i had a fix for the "Viewing pending assets in the trash bug"	01:11
+perlDreamer	but it breaks notifying the user who committed the tag	01:12
+perlDreamer	since it allows an admin to unlock the tag, join it, and cruise the site	01:13
+perlDreamer	and then they can commit it after making edits and such	01:13
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * r503a378 / (6 files in 5 dirs): ProgressBar::run and now Asset->www_copy has a bar - http://bit.ly/94nf7U	01:35
+perlDreamer	frodwith, any reason that all of the progress bar code couldn't be refactored to use ->run	02:08
@frodwith	nope, that's an excellent idea	02:08
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r55d55b4 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Install better error handling code into RequestApprovalForVersionTag. Do not generate leading commas in workflow instance scratch data. - http://bit.ly/ad5Rvk	02:21
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r429b0bf / (3 files in 3 dirs): Install better error handling code into RequestApprovalForVersionTag. Do not generate leading commas in workflow instance scratch data. - http://bit.ly/cGUZh3	02:25
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r34115eb / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Group.pm): Fix typos in recursive Group->getAllUsers calls. Fixes bug #11566 - http://bit.ly/cFEtw8	04:41
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r18de531 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Group.pm): Fix typos in recursive Group->getAllUsers calls. Fixes bug #11566 - http://bit.ly/al9sXC	04:41
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1599c24 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.8.19 release. - http://bit.ly/cgWZwW	04:51
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r084fee6 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.20 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/ci1MsH	05:22
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+perlDreamer	Lost is on	07:00
+perlDreamer	Later!	07:00
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r78426b7 / t/Asset/AssetExportHtml.t : Update test assets for export tests. - http://bit.ly/9ltHuU	08:08
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2a6e50b / lib/WebGUI/Asset/EMSSubmissionForm.pm : Make this code readable. - http://bit.ly/9beaDo	08:13
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12496 /translations/German/German/Shop.pm: Updating German on translation server	10:57
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+bartjol	Morning	17:07
SDuensin	AM HERE!	17:11
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SquOnk	Greetings	17:16
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+bartjol	aah, free in an hour, gamenight	17:35
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* bartjol is here to annoy people that just started working		17:36
* perlDreamer hugs bartjol, because SynQ is not here to do it		17:37
+bartjol	perlDreamer: what are the troubles with CHI, except the dependancies when installing manually?	17:37
+bartjol	just curious	17:37
+perlDreamer	troubles?	17:37
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+perlDreamer	there was a bug fixed yesterday about working with the Cache i the UI	17:38
+bartjol	complications?	17:38
+bartjol	ah	17:38
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I have a suggestion for the upgrade script. I was hit with a couple of "border cases" today :-)	17:39
SquOnk	perlDreamer: One, if the scripts cannot connect to the database, it bombs out like there's no tomorrow...	17:39
+perlDreamer	SquOnk, that's a known WebGUI bug	17:40
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...I had 7.8.17 installed without a database an attempted to upgrade it to 7.8.18 :-)	17:40
+perlDreamer	posted on the boards	17:40
+bartjol	other question, at the moment the wre upgrade script does not include an update for custom perl modules, might there be some options to include those	17:41
+bartjol	?	17:41
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Two, if the script connects to the database, but it isn't a webgui database, it bombs out in an even uglier way...	17:41
SquOnk	perlDreamer: So WebGUI is bombing out, not upgrade.pl?	17:41
+perlDreamer	SquOnk: WebGUI::SQL has a tizzy fit and throws a fatal error	17:42
+perlDreamer	bartjol: it could be made to do that, by running testEnvironment.pl maybe?	17:42
+perlDreamer	SquOnk: I could be wrong about that	17:43
+bartjol	if it first looks for the custom modules and reinstalls them	17:43
+bartjol	mmm, I have to discuss this with Koen, he prefers to install modules manually	17:43
+bartjol	and this way I suppose you require CPAN	17:44
+perlDreamer	time for me to take kids to school	17:45
+perlDreamer	bbiaw	17:45
+perlDreamer	I'm back	18:03
+bartjol	yeah, you missed the most interesting discussion :)	18:03
+perlDreamer	don't y'all talk if I'm not here?	18:03
+bartjol	nope	18:04
+perlDreamer	It's not the perlDreamer channel, you know	18:04
+bartjol	yeah, but in dutch daytime it is very quiet	18:04
+bartjol	those southern americans that wanted us to do their jobs where always the first to come online	18:05
+bartjol	not meaning Squonk off course	18:05
SquOnk	lol	18:05
+bartjol	but, was I right about that cpan statement?	18:08
+perlDreamer	I didn't understand what you meant about requiring CPAN	18:13
+perlDreamer	do you mean CPAN.pm?	18:13
+perlDreamer	or access to CPAN?	18:13
+perlDreamer	or something else?	18:13
+bartjol	ah	18:14
+bartjol	because the wre upgrade scripts only reset your version setting	18:14
@preaction	bartjol: Haarg is working on a new upgrade system that would be easy to plug in extra scripts and packages	18:15
+bartjol	and if you update, let's say the perl version, it is just untarred over the old one	18:15
+bartjol	aaah	18:15
+bartjol	lovely	18:15
+bartjol	but, finishing my sentence: the custom modules don't work with the new perl and have to be reinstalled	18:16
+bartjol	had that recently	18:16
+bartjol	but I mean that if you want it the automated, you need cpan.	18:17
@preaction	yeah, nothing we can do about that	18:18
+bartjol	no, well	18:18
+bartjol	then I have to tell Koen that wre upgrading costs me hours of work	18:18
+perlDreamer	many, many hours	18:18
+perlDreamer	that could be better spent doing other things	18:18
+perlDreamer	like sailing	18:18
+bartjol	depending on the amount of custom modules	18:18
@preaction	i would like to have a better way of describing our perl module requirements, in a plaintext file or something, so that there can be a "requires.custom" file or something that testEnvironment.pl can pick up on	18:18
@preaction	because i have many sites that i don't know what it requires, and the people who do know are either gone or just away	18:19
+bartjol	like a json file with the module and optional version?	18:19
@preaction	something like that yeah	18:19
@preaction	with one file being "requires.modules" and another being "requires.custom"	18:20
@preaction	so requires.modules is WebGUI, requires.custom is anything else	18:20
+bartjol	is there also a way to actually look for obsolete modules, like checking the webgui requirements and comparing them with perldoc perllocoal?	18:21
@preaction	not automatically, but you could do it manually	18:21
+bartjol	ah, that sounds like a joyfull work	18:22
@preaction	it does indeed	18:22
@preaction	but it doesn't matter, they're just taking up a minor amount of disk space, they aren't being loaded into memory	18:22
+perlDreamer	we're reinventing the various distribution tools	18:22
+perlDreamer	Dist::Zilla, for example	18:22
@preaction	we can't use Dist::Zilla, koen won't use CPAN	18:23
+bartjol	well it might very well be that is a "tough luck" situation for me	18:25
+bartjol	I can imagine that just "reattaching" modules to a new perl isn't the way to go, if that is pssible at all	18:26
@preaction	it isn't possible	18:27
+bartjol	very well	18:27
+bartjol	well, I just dont wake up in the middle of the night, screaming "wget; tar; cd; perl Makefile.pl; make;make test;makeinstall; aaaaah another dependancy"	18:29
+bartjol	ohh, that last is earlier in the process	18:29
Haarg	i would really like to convert testEnvironment.pl to Build.PL	18:30
Haarg	that would make installing (most of) the dependancies really easy	18:30
Haarg	but there are some unresolved issues that i haven't figured out the best way to resolve yet	18:31
+bartjol	ah, but the start sounds fine	18:31
@preaction	but Build.PL probably relies on CPAN.pm to pull deps	18:32
Haarg	yes it does	18:32
Haarg	but i don't really see that as a problem	18:32
@preaction	i don't, but koen does. poor bart :(	18:32
Haarg	for a developer or similar they can use ./Build installdeps	18:32
Haarg	and if they don't want to use that	18:33
Haarg	you still have META.{yml,json} to read out the deps and handle them however you like	18:33
+bartjol	well, if the reasons for manual install are good I don't really mind	18:33
@preaction	but CPAN.pm does exactly what you describe, only it does it for you instead of making you do it manually	18:34
Haarg	yes	18:34
@preaction	Haarg: any way for developer to add custom requirements?	18:34
Haarg	they could have their own Build.PL	18:35
@preaction	ok	18:35
Haarg	hell, we could build a WebGUI::Build module they could use	18:35
Haarg	and it could automatically add paths to preload.custom	18:35
Haarg	i would really like to have everything work as standard CPAN modules, but there are problems with that	18:36
+bartjol	grmbl, I have to go, interesting stuff	18:37
+bartjol	thanks, don't worry about me too much, weeds and vermin don't get exterminated that easily	18:38
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Trex	perlDramer: I thought I'd pop online if you wanted to ask questions about the IP-group bug we've been exchanging messages on via the bug tracker.	19:13
Trex	Sorry, perlDreamer	19:14
+perlDreamer	Trex, that would be great	19:17
+perlDreamer	although I don't really have the ability to work from machines with multiple IP's	19:17
+perlDreamer	so the fact that you say that you still get cached content, after clearing the cache, sounds funny to me	19:17
+perlDreamer	either the cache isn't being cleared, or there's something in the middle which is caching for you	19:18
Trex	Yes, that is what makes me wonder whether the sessions or group memberships aren't behaving as expected.	19:18
+perlDreamer	the group memberships are cached as memory (a hash) in the session	19:18
+perlDreamer	I don't think it's possible for it to carry over from request to request	19:19
+perlDreamer	and it definitely won't carry over between different sessions	19:19
Trex	Here's a quick demo of what I was describing in my last post...	19:20
Trex	http://demo.webgui.org/demo1273673029_123/home/new-test-snippet	19:20
Trex	You should see a permission denied page.	19:20
+perlDreamer	yup	19:20
Trex	And now you should seen teh snippet's contents.	19:20
+perlDreamer	yes	19:21
Trex	...and back to permission denied.	19:21
+perlDreamer	let's try this	19:22
+perlDreamer	in the snippet, add a macro which uses the groupText macro to print out either IN or OUT	19:22
+perlDreamer	IN if you're in the group, OUT if you're not	19:22
Trex	Can you give me the syntax for that?	19:23
Trex	(Otherwise I'd have to go look it up)	19:23
+perlDreamer	^GroupText(groupName,IN,OUT);	19:23
+perlDreamer	and you reset it back to permission denied by clearing the cache?	19:23
Trex	OK, try now.	19:26
+perlDreamer	I see IN	19:27
Trex	The view permission and group membership macro are both set to the IP group that is based on an IP that I DO have access to.	19:27
Trex	Same here...from a variety of IPs.	19:27
Trex	OK, try again. You should see OUT	19:28
Trex	The view permissions on the snippet are the same, but the macro has been changed to the IP that no one has used.	19:28
+perlDreamer	I'm going to add some more macros to that sites config file	19:29
+perlDreamer	Let's get some more debug output, to check again for content caching versus group caching	19:29
+perlDreamer	Please add these:	19:29
+perlDreamer	^Env(REMOTE_ADDR);	19:29
+perlDreamer	^Env(HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR);	19:30
Trex	OK. I left the default admin login, so you can modify the snippet yourself if you like...but I'll proceed with these.	19:30
+perlDreamer	^SessionId;	19:30
Trex	Those three have been added.	19:31
+perlDreamer	Is this the sessionId that you see: Uzh7J6wrtI9ckfSBgyf8BQ	19:31
Trex	Nope. I've got x_bcUxiHus6saP7SJT9WdA	19:31
+perlDreamer	I also see "OUT"	19:32
Trex	Yes, I still see OUT	19:32
Trex	The group macro is still set to the "random" IP group.	19:33
Trex	169.99.179.39/32	19:33
+perlDreamer	okay, I'm convinced, it's gotta be group caching somehow	19:33
Trex	Unfortunately, that's where my ability to help out probably ends. I don't have any experience with how WebGUI's caching system works.	19:35
+perlDreamer	the caching system has 3 components	19:38
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Cache, which caches either to the filesystem or the db	19:39
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Session::Stow, which is an in-memory cache in the Session	19:39
+perlDreamer	and WebGUI::Session::Stow, which is a database cache tied to the session, and persists as long as the session does	19:39
+perlDreamer	that last one is really WebGUI::Session::Scratch	19:40
+perlDreamer	user membership is cached in Stow	19:40
+perlDreamer	so if you ask WebGUI if a user is a member of a group, that cache only lasts for the duration of the request	19:40
+perlDreamer	but...	19:40
+perlDreamer	the set of members in a group is cached in WebGUI::Cache	19:41
Trex	Is the set of members in WebGUI::Cache session-agnostic?	19:45
Trex	The behavior seems to be that when WebGUI is deciding whether a request has permission to view content, it's checking against usernames in general, and ignoring specific sessions.	19:46
Trex	Either that, or once a user becomes a member of an IP-based group, that membership is applied to all sessions for that visitor, regardless of IP for the sessions.	19:48
+perlDreamer	It's done by userId lookup	19:51
+perlDreamer	the problem being that in almost all cases, userId is unique to a session	19:51
+perlDreamer	except for Visitor	19:51
+perlDreamer	preaction ping for future reference, or feel free to chime in	19:54
+perlDreamer	one very, very simple solution to this would be to NEVER cache Visitor in the group lookups	19:54
+perlDreamer	and to force reverification on every visitor request	19:55
+perlDreamer	but that's not going to help WebGUI go fast	19:55
+perlDreamer	a second way would be not do list of users for Scratch or IP users, and instead return sets of requirements that have to be met	19:57
Trex	Would it be possible to add some sort of condition on rendering of content that IF the view restriction is an IP or Scratch-based group and IF user is Visitor, THEN go confirm IP/Scratch for that session?	19:59
Trex	That way you'd only have a hit on WebGUI's speed if someone were using these types of groups, and then only for visitors.	19:59
+perlDreamer	that's not a bad compromise, but there are also cases where people share logins, and you still want the IP/Scratch requirements to be met in those cases as well	20:00
+perlDreamer	so having it only work for Visitor is not the most correct solution	20:00
+perlDreamer	and, while I tested that IP validation code very thoroughly, I didn't test using the SAME user from different IP addresses	20:02
Trex	You said that userId is unique to a session, except for Visitor -- so with users who share logins, would the different sessions for the same user be already taken care of?	20:02
+perlDreamer	yes, it's a rare case though	20:03
+perlDreamer	people should not do that	20:03
+perlDreamer	and I'm starting to think that people should not use scratch or IP based groups	20:03
Trex	Sadly, both are WebGUI features that I had hopes of using in various projects.	20:04
+perlDreamer	this is usually the point where patspam jumps in to advocate his WebGUI mod	20:06
+perlDreamer	because it would work perfectly in this case	20:06
Trex	What does the mod do?	20:07
+perlDreamer	it extends the basic WebGUI permission system to allow "other" kinds of membership activities	20:07
+perlDreamer	Flux!	20:08
+perlDreamer	that's what it's called	20:08
+perlDreamer	with it, you can say things like	20:10
+perlDreamer	this user is a member of a group if they're from this IP range	20:10
+perlDreamer	and have a scratch variable	20:11
+perlDreamer	and put an entry into a Thingy over there	20:11
+perlDreamer	and has at least 25 karma from this forum	20:11
+perlDreamer	and so on	20:11
+perlDreamer	very, very generalized	20:11
Trex	Is it something more complicated to implement than your average bazaar contribution?	20:12
Trex	(Just looked to see if there was an entry for "flux" there.)	20:12
+perlDreamer	it's a rework of the codebase	20:12
+perlDreamer	so it is more complicated than a plugin	20:12
Trex	Ah. Gotcha.	20:12
+perlDreamer	also has the side-effect of moving you out of core code	20:13
Trex	So...if I wanted to add functionality to a site where visitors could opt-in to seeing content that is normally not shown, that would have been something scratch variable groups could be used for...	20:14
Trex	Is there a way to have such functionality a different way?	20:14
Trex	(opting in would last the remainder of the visitor's session)	20:15
Trex	Would the session scratch variables that are available within the templating system separate from this group issue?	20:18
Trex	So if I used a <tmpl_if session.scratch.optin><tmpl_else> within various templates to show/hide content, would that remain unique to each visitor session and avoid the group membership issues?	20:20
Trex	Sadly not -- just checked, and even the scratch values in templates are shared between visitor sessions.	20:29
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