WebGUI irc logs from: 2010-04.log

kimd
--- Log opened Thu Apr 01 00:00:55 2010
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kimd	Hey preaction, back at work? (Or still relaxing at home :)	00:19
@preaction	back at work, no rest for the weary around here	00:20
kimd	Good. Received my pull request?	00:23
@preaction	yes	00:27
kimd	Good. That's all I wanted to know. Back to work now! (Can you hear the whip?)	00:28
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kimd	Servus KlausH, wie geht's wie steht's?	01:33
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@Haarg	http://www.anxietyapp.com/ finally found a todo tracker i like. lightweight and uses ical on the back end.	03:21
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r195218c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm): when purging from system trash, return to system trash. Fixes bug #11509. - http://bit.ly/bMMspb	03:24
@preaction	oh, god, yes, thank you Haarg	03:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r8669097 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm): when purging from system trash, return to system trash. Fixes bug #11509. - http://bit.ly/d2Z2ro	03:24
+perlDreamer	scratch variables need to die	03:36
+perlDreamer	forever	03:36
@preaction	why? i think they serve a useful purpose	03:38
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11510	03:41
+perlDreamer	this is one example of their badness	03:41
+perlDreamer	just one example, I should say	03:41
+perlDreamer	they need to have expiration times on them	03:41
+perlDreamer	because now I get to write an upgrade sub which tries to fix the mess that has been created	03:41
@Haarg	i think that's more an example of the cs sorting code being dumb	03:41
@Haarg	the fact that you have to give it a sql column name is rather horrible	03:42
@Haarg	or a table.column name	03:42
+perlDreamer	I can fix that	03:43
@Haarg	i tried to fix that at one point when i found the sql injection problem it used to have, but was overruled	03:44
@preaction	uh.. sql injection?	03:45
@preaction	oh	03:45
@preaction	right, that	03:45
@Haarg	it used to just stick the form param into the order by clause	03:45
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@Haarg	preaction, patspam, your thoughts on wgdev and webgui 8? it's going to be hard to keep it entirely compatible. so i can either fork it entirely, or try for having it compatible.	04:31
@Haarg	making the commands themselves compatible would be possible in a lot of cases, so those could maybe list their compatible versions	04:32
@Haarg	but making the core work across versions is going to be annoying so i would possible need to add a command line option to note that you are using webgui 8, have a different executable, or try to do something else that i'm not sure about.	04:33
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:32
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mech422	morning all - quick question - on the user profile page, I want to add a field whose default value is based on the users email address - how do I fill in the default value box on the form to pass the email address to my code ?	17:41
mech422	(is it something like WebGui::foo::bar($email) )	17:42
+bartjol	in a form field, can't you set a default value, this should be the tmpl_var containg the users e-mail	17:43
+bartjol	?	17:43
+bartjol	or are you making new code	17:44
+bartjol	I was thinking html	17:44
mech422	I was trying to do it thru-the-web using's webgui's built in profile field editor ... I suppose I could hack up the profile page template if needed, but then I'd need to call my custom code from a template ?	17:45
+bartjol	ah	17:45
mech422	I believe webgui does something similiar for translating the labels... I'd have to look again. I just wasnt sure what the email field was called	17:46
+bartjol	well, you can get far with a macro I suppose, which also can have it's own template	17:46
mech422	WebGUI::International::get(314,"WebGUI");	17:48
mech422	thats how labels get translated	17:49
mech422	I need WebGUI::foo::bar($user->email); or some such	17:49
+bartjol	$user->get("email") I think	17:52
+bartjol	http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.8.16-stable/api/User.html	17:52
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+MrHairgrease	tavisto: you should really brush up your Dutch	17:53
@tavisto	no way, my Google Dutch is great	17:54
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+MrHairgrease	well unless you think I'm beer, something is not working out exactly as planned I guess.	17:55
+bartjol	at the most, you are a beer container, but not beer	17:56
@tavisto	yeah I do think you are mostly beer	17:56
+patspam	do we get to deprecate IE6 in wg8?	17:57
@tavisto	I thought the goal of every Dutchmen was to eventually become 100% beer.. Blood is for wimps	17:57
+perlDreamer	it is a well known fact that MrHairgrease is 70% water	17:57
+bartjol	patspam: I hope so, but I don't believe it is the roadmap	17:57
+MrHairgrease	hmm, I dunno... some skin would be handy I guess	17:57
+perlDreamer	with several trace elements, alcohol, hops, carbonation	17:58
+MrHairgrease	hehe	17:58
+perlDreamer	patspam: YES!	17:58
+bartjol	whoohoo!	17:58
+perlDreamer	IE6 dies a horrible, bloody death in wG8	17:58
+perlDreamer	or so I've been told	17:58
* MrHairgrease has deprecated ie6 long ago		17:58
+patspam	woooh!	17:58
+MrHairgrease	awesome	17:58
+patspam	I was wondering because Doug just mentioned IE6 in an email to the template working group	17:58
+bartjol	too bad IE 5 will still be supported	17:59
+perlDreamer	those templates are not for wg8, but for wg 7, so they must work in 1994 browsers	17:59
+MrHairgrease	only 1994?	18:00
+MrHairgrease	there are millions of browsers out there	18:00
+MrHairgrease	it might be a good idea to support a few more than 1994	18:00
mech422	morning all - quick question - on the user profile page, I want to add a field whose default value is based on the users email address - how do I fill in the default value box on the form to pass the email address to my code ? labels get translated via WebGUI::International::get(314,"WebGUI"); can I do a WebGUI::foo::bar($user->email); or something ?	18:00
+perlDreamer	mech422, we only allow a limited subset of things that get evaluated as perl code	18:02
+perlDreamer	it should have used macros instead, but there you go	18:02
@Haarg	the WebGUI::International::get(314,"WebGUI") form isn't actually even evaluated	18:03
mech422	perlDreamer: is that a "you can't get here from there" ?	18:03
@Haarg	it is matched with a regex	18:03
+perlDreamer	'fraid so, dude	18:03
mech422	kk - thanks	18:03
mech422	I'll have to hack up the profile template then	18:03
+MrHairgrease	mech422, afaik you can use macros inlabels	18:04
mech422	or can I 'short circuit' it by creating a wrapper function that looks up the user's email and passes it to bar() ? WebGUI::foo::barWrapper() ?	18:05
@tavisto	noooooo! I still lovvvvvvvvvve IE6!	18:05
@tavisto	don't kill it!	18:05
@Haarg	patspam, perlDreamer, http://gist.github.com/351903	18:05
+MrHairgrease	mech422: why not use ^User(email)	18:05
mech422	MrHairgrease: I'm trying to use it in the default value box - basically trying to get the default value for one field to depend on another field	18:05
+MrHairgrease	oh	18:06
+MrHairgrease	my mistake	18:06
+MrHairgrease	that's not gonna work	18:06
+patspam	Haarg: I reckon fork it and make the wg7 branch maintenance only	18:06
mech422	thanks though - didn't know you could use macros in hte label :-)	18:06
+perlDreamer	can't use macros in profile fields	18:06
+patspam	I don't reckon it's worth the overhead of trying to keep it compatible	18:07
* perlDreamer has to agree with patspam		18:07
mech422	perlDreamer: would barWrapper() method work, or is getting my code access to wg values more work then hacking the template ?	18:08
@Haarg	that's kind of how i was leaning as well. i may try to keep the command api the same between the two so if the command is written correctly it could work with either.	18:09
+perlDreamer	mech422, I don't understand the question, and it would be much more work than hacking the template	18:09
+MrHairgrease	mech422: your best bet might be adding some js to the template that sets the fields to whatever value	18:09
+patspam	yeah, obviously only change the command API if there's a compelling reason to do it	18:09
mech422	Hmm... ok - thanks guys - I'm gonna go percolate	18:10
@Haarg	i have my WebGUI::Paths changes basically complete but they will break wgdev pretty badly, which is why i've held off merging them	18:11
+perlDreamer	maybe we could have wgd, and wg8d	18:11
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mech422	if I have a custom WebGUI::foo module, is there something I can require to get access to the wg user info ? require WebGUI::User or something ?	18:33
+bartjol	use WebGUI::User;	18:33
+MrHairgrease	you get the current user via $session->user	18:33
+MrHairgrease	otherwise do $user = WebGU::User->new( $session, $userId );	18:34
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+patspam	pre tags are evil	18:53
+patspam	even with fluid layout they will look horrible if a single line is long enough	18:54
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@Haarg	overflow helps but it's not always perfect	19:04
+perlDreamer	looking at it with hindsight, the editing controls for the tickets should be on the left	19:06
+perlDreamer	maybe we could look at stripping out PRE tags, or limiting their width	19:07
+perlDreamer	eh, maybe, maybe not	19:07
+perlDreamer	I think I'm just being old and grumpy again	19:07
+perlDreamer	I'll go to the gym, and have the grumpiness beaten out of me	19:08
+perlDreamer	nothing like doing 150 pushups to change your attitude	19:08
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+perlDreamer	man, the OSCON schedule this year reads like an advertisement for Django	20:45
@preaction	eh, Django is the new baby	20:45
@preaction	last year it was Drupal, no?	20:45
@preaction	and I do like a lot of Django's style, even though it's exactly like Catalyst: there's no real app to speak of, it's just a framework	20:46
@tavisto	Hey all, just wanted to let you know that all WebGUI Guides are on sale today only! 10% off @ Lulu.com. Details available @ http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/all-webgui-books-10-off---april-1st-only	20:52
clifmo	yay, hook me up tavisto	21:11
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@tavisto	Yeah, that's a pretty good deal Clifmo. I've never seen Lulu do discounts system-wide before.	21:12
clifmo	Good to know those resources exist, doubt I could get the purchase through today	21:14
@tavisto	The Primer Guide is free so you'll definitely want to download that one. Just a basics guide to get people started with the software	21:14
+perlDreamer	yes, FilePump should be used with the new styles	22:20
+perlDreamer	especially after it's more tightly integrated with the template	22:20
@preaction	and attachments	22:20
+perlDreamer	Doesn't FilePump do everything that Attachments can do, and more?	22:21
+perlDreamer	FilePump is less granular	22:21
@preaction	filepump bundles should show up as attachments to a template	22:21
+perlDreamer	it'd be nice if you could take an existing set of JS and CSS attachments to a template, and say, "Make this a bundle for me"	22:22
+perlDreamer	attachments are nice because you don't have to add the macro to you template	22:23
+perlDreamer	of course, if you knew it was a style template	22:23
+perlDreamer	and it had a FilePump bundle	22:23
+perlDreamer	you could automatically insert the CSS to the top, and the JS to the bottom	22:23
+perlDreamer	you wouldn't have as much control as with the macro for placement	22:24
+perlDreamer	hoy, patspam!	22:24
+patspam	hola	22:24
+perlDreamer	back log and bit and tell me if the idea for style templates handling attached FilePump bundles is any good or not	22:25
@preaction	perlDreamer: FilePump bundles should be able to be attached to the template like normal Attachments can	22:26
@preaction	any template at all	22:26
+perlDreamer	sure, but for a style template, you might be able to avoid the (very small) hassle of sticking in the FilePump macro	22:26
+perlDreamer	since it's attached, you don't need to know the name for the macro	22:26
+perlDreamer	it's the style template, so you know where the head and body/bottom are	22:27
@preaction	i don't understand. if there was a FilePump area when you edit a template where you could check the box of any FilePump bundles, there's no need for the macro anymore at all, is this what we're both saying?	22:28
+perlDreamer	no	22:28
+perlDreamer	maybe	22:28
+perlDreamer	if you made a FilePump bundle for an Article template	22:29
+perlDreamer	you'd really like the CSS link to be up in the HEAD block	22:29
+perlDreamer	that's one thing that FilePump wouldn't allow you to do as it stands now	22:29
@preaction	yes, which is where Templates being aware of FilePump comes in	22:29
@preaction	you say "Hello Article template, Include this FilePump bundle!"	22:29
@preaction	"And this one too while you're at it!"	22:30
@preaction	"Oh, and also add this attachment why not"	22:30
+perlDreamer	and the Template is smart enough to put the CSS into the head_tags	22:30
+perlDreamer	and the JS into a body_tag, which is wisely put at the bottom of the style template	22:30
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+perlDreamer	now I think we're saying the same thing	22:31
@preaction	well, the JS would have to be set for "Top" or "Bottom"	22:31
+perlDreamer	FilePump is a "bottom JS" Nazi	22:31
+perlDreamer	well, by intent, not required by design or implementation	22:31
@preaction	it'd have to be changed, it should be changed. not all JS works at the bottom.	22:32
+perlDreamer	non-bottom JS could just be an attachment	22:33
@preaction	but why force them to forgoe the benefits of filepump just because someone else's JS sucks	22:34
+perlDreamer	good point	22:34
+perlDreamer	is this a hypothetical question, or does WebGUI have that problem?	22:35
@preaction	JS that only works when placed before the content? it's everywhere. making JS work when deferred is not a common technique	22:36
+perlDreamer	most of the JS I've seen is all in yui-webgui, and it all works as deferred	22:37
* perlDreamer should get out more :)		22:37
@preaction	random JS that doesn't use frameworks usually doesn't work like that, so newbie JS	22:40
@Haarg	also, doing deferred js is usually really annoying without a framework	22:41
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+patspam	back again	23:10
+patspam	yeah what preaction said, the list of available template attachements should include filepump bundles	23:11
+patspam	I wouldn't mind forcing people to put JS at the bottom	23:11
+patspam	newbies probably wouldn't be using filepump anyway	23:12
+patspam	but I suppose a top/bottom checkbox is more friendly	23:12
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+patspam	filepump wiki page is rockin now	00:23
+patspam	only about a year overdue	00:24
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CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r8f4024a / (3 files in 2 dirs): initial commit: new admin console - http://bit.ly/aE1N9n	00:58
+perlDreamer	preaction, what do you think about the Project Manager and Time Tracker being pulled out of the core and moved into their own repository?	01:19
@preaction	why?	01:19
+perlDreamer	I'm guessing that it's low usage.	01:19
@preaction	yes, but let's wait until i'm really pulling the strings around here	01:22
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mech422	hey pd - is there something 'funky' about how Account 'plugins' are handled ? I had to totally rename my module before modperl would detect it changed ? (then it went away, and renaming it back brough it back with the changes..)	01:36
+perlDreamer	mech422, it's all driven by the config file, and requires an apache restart	01:48
+perlDreamer	to see new code	01:48
mech422	perlDreamer: ahh - not just a 'modperl' restart from the web panel ?	01:50
mech422	I was just restarting mod_perl and mod_proxy	01:51
+perlDreamer	you only need to restart mod_perl	01:51
mech422	yeah.. that didn't seem to do it..ah well - maybe it was something funky with my browser cache or whatnot	01:51
mech422	its seeing the new code now, so I'm happy	01:52
mech422	btw - I scrapped profile fields and just went with an Account plugin - seems like it'll be easier for what I need	01:52
+perlDreamer	cool	01:53
+perlDreamer	mech422, are you really, finally doing a WebGUI project?	02:12
mech422	LOL - yeah :-P	02:12
mech422	Hmm - I got the dropdown boxes to select a style and layout for my module - but no 'edit' or 'manage' buttons ?	02:25
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+perlDreamer	for edit and manage buttons, you have to specify a default	03:11
mech422	ahh - thanks - that was driving me a bit bonkers	03:12
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mech422	pd - thanks for all the help :-) Time for meatloaf !! :-D	04:19
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+perlDreamer	preaction: http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2010/03/aaa_ready_for_great_battery_ro.html	05:47
+perlDreamer	you gotta watch the video	05:47
+perlDreamer	well, you don't have to watch the video at the end	05:58
+perlDreamer	unless you like watching batteries being chopped up by lightsabers	05:58
+perlDreamer	if that's not your thing, just ignore the video	05:58
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@preaction	OMG an old school game boy!	06:03
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CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r33315ad / lib/WGDev.pm : add option to set_environment to not save the env in case you want to localize it yourself - http://bit.ly/aOmQBG	12:53
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r75eba2a / lib/WGDev/X.pm : add inflate method to WGDev::X that will rethrow a passed in object, or create a new exception for a string - http://bit.ly/aqf77j	12:53
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r6979ba0 / lib/WGDev/Command/For/Each.pm :	12:53
CIA-104	wgdev: add more options to for-each command and allow multiple subcommands to	12:53
CIA-104	wgdev: be used - http://bit.ly/cDtvbO	12:53
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SDuensin	FRIIIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDAAAAAYYYYYYYY!!!!	16:09
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kimd	preaction, I am fixing the missing cancel button bug submitted by Kristi.	23:02
kimd	Is it ok to let JS do the job?	23:02
kimd	Or do we need a fallback in www_edit in case JS is disabled?	23:03
kimd	Haarg?	23:03
@preaction	you probably need a fallback, since there has been bugs previously about the JS-only solution failing	23:03
kimd	I see. But then there is another problem already.	23:04
kimd	The submit button seems to rely on JS for redirection to www_editSave.	23:04
kimd	Or do I miss something?	23:04
@preaction	if you do "history.go(-1)" twice, you will keep jumping between two pages, that's what i meant by failing	23:06
kimd	Hm. I don't think that can happen here. But still, does that mean I should avoid JS and use regular form processing?	23:07
@preaction	if you don't think it can happen, the go ahead. the only time it really happens is when you click on an Edit button for a template when viewing the edit page of an asset	23:09
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kimd	preaction, something else: Do we prefer tabs or space for indentation?	23:18
kimd	I would like to correct indentation in Post.pm since it's very confusing.	23:18
@preaction	there's a .perltidyrc file and there's a wiki entry (4 spaces)	23:18
kimd	Particularly the www_edit method.	23:18
kimd	Cool. Thanks!	23:19
@preaction	i wouldn't, use perltidy to make it look how you need and then put it back (it will screw up merging attempts)	23:19
kimd	I see.	23:19
kimd	Good night everyone!	23:40
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--- Day changed Sat Apr 03 2010
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@preaction	i like that the Blank Style isn't really blank and that the Empty Style doesn't show head tags...	01:18
* preaction didn't really want to get anything done the easy way, honest injun!		01:18
SDuensin	Whoa! Life!	01:26
* SDuensin is currently disgruntled with the WebGUI blog.		01:30
@preaction	webgui has a blog?	01:31
SDuensin	EXACTLY!	01:31
* SDuensin wants a nice tag-cloud of topics!		01:32
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mech422	hi all - anyone know what table this should hit : $setting->set("dmnStyleTemplateId", $form->process("dmnStyleTemplateId","template")); ?	02:15
mech422	it appears not to be getting updated so I thought I'd just query the db manually ...	02:15
@preaction	the settings table	02:16
@preaction	you have to have a setting that already exists with that name, otherwise you have to use "add"	02:16
mech422	doh! I should have guessed that table name :-P	02:16
mech422	oh? So how do you get the 'first' record into the table then ?	02:16
mech422	(this is from the skeleton code btw...)	02:17
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@preaction	$setting->add("name","value");	02:20
mech422	sorry - better question would be, is there a 'install' routine thats called so you can add that setting when you put in a new account object ?	02:20
mech422	err... new account 'module' ?? or whatever the plugin is called	02:21
@preaction	see sbin/installClass.pl if you want, it is an installer for classes	02:24
@Haarg	i hate how that works with settings	02:26
@preaction	yep. likewise	02:26
mech422	preaction: that fixed it - changed all the $setting->set() to $setting->add(), hit the settings form and saved stuff, then changed it back to $settings->set()	02:26
mech422	might be worth a comment in the skeleton code - it's sorta unintuiative	02:27
@Haarg	$t = $setting->get('key'); $t = $value if !defined $t; $setting->delete('key'); $setting->add('key', $t);	02:27
mech422	Haarg: Icck	02:28
@Haarg	yeah	02:28
mech422	any votes for $setting->updateOrAdd() ? :-P	02:28
mech422	or maybe addOrUpdate() ?	02:29
@preaction	no. update() should do "REPLACE INTO" and add() should call update	02:29
@Haarg	there's really no reason ->set shouldn't add the value if it doesn't exist	02:30
mech422	eh - either way - but the current skeleton code basically fails silently, which would be a bit disconcerting to new developers	02:30
@preaction	yep	02:30
mech422	I spent hours looking for an upstream proxy cache cuz the page wouldn't change from the default :-P	02:31
@Haarg	preaction, any reason for me not to change that right now?	02:33
mech422	Haarg: if you adding the comment to the skeleton - could you add one saying that you need a default value for the templates for the 'edit' and 'manage' buttons to appear, please.	02:34
@preaction	Haarg: none whatsoever	02:35
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r9113760 / t/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo/navigation.t : quiet photo navigation test and add better cleanup - http://bit.ly/buwx68	02:35
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r3b07f83 / t/_test.skeleton : remove END section from test skeleton - http://bit.ly/byk1mR	02:35
@Haarg	and should add just be an alias for set then?	02:36
@preaction	yes, for backcompat for now	02:36
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * rd0bc628 / lib/WebGUI/Session/Setting.pm : make setting set/add update or replace existing settings - http://bit.ly/a097DB	02:39
mech422	oh cool - thanks :-)	02:42
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r5e77a94 / (lib/WebGUI/Admin.pm lib/WebGUI/Content/Admin.pm): Bare minimum working - http://bit.ly/byF3sS	02:45
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+patspam	hello weekend warriors	20:11
+patspam	has there been any talk of lightning talks for the WUC this year?	20:11
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+patspam	Haarg, preaction: have you used local::lib to install wre modules?	21:18
@preaction	not yet no	21:18
@preaction	i want it though, for future WebGUI such	21:18
+patspam	I'm just deciding where to place the containing folder	21:19
+patspam	maybe: /data/wre/prereqs/perl5	21:19
+patspam	equiv to the default: ~/perl5	21:19
+patspam	which will end up with bin/ lib/ and man/ inside it	21:21
+patspam	it will be nice to have user-installed cpan modules separated from bundled wre cpan modules	21:22
+patspam	especially for dev - easy to see what you've installed extra to the wre	21:22
+patspam	i really hate setenvironment.sh	21:33
@preaction	likewise. i don't even use WRE anymore because of that.	21:35
+patspam	since I started using wgd I mostly stopped having to use it	21:35
kimd	Didn't JT once write that not using the wre is a stupid decision ;-)	21:36
+patspam	setenvironment should something that only other scripts need (like sbin/services/redhat/wre-apache)	21:37
kimd	Hm. Not sure how you would achieve that.	21:38
+patspam	kimd: what do you find yourself using setenvironment for at the moment?	21:40
kimd	I need to call it before I run utility scripts.	21:40
kimd	And use perl apps like perldoc	21:40
+patspam	for utility scripts I use: wgd util	21:41
+patspam	for mysql client I use: wgd db	21:41
kimd	Ok. But why is that better?	21:41
+patspam	doesn't pollute your current environment	21:41
kimd	wgd util makes 8 letters+	21:42
kimd	I would prefer to have up-to-date debian packages and get rid of wre completely.	21:42
kimd	That would keep your environment really clean.	21:42
+patspam	I wouldn't want that - I use my dev box for more than just webgui	21:42
kimd	Different people, different preferences.	21:43
kimd	You could still virtualize it.	21:43
kimd	But then again, you could use the image already provided.	21:43
+patspam	yeah. I want to keep everything webgui related separate from my system, and as close to my production environment as possible	21:43
kimd	Maybe that is the best solution.	21:43
+patspam	what image?	21:44
kimd	There is virtual machine image based on ...	21:44
kimd	I do not remember. It was something redhat related.	21:44
+patspam	eek no, I don't want to run webgui in a vm	21:44
+patspam	too slow and cumbersome	21:45
kimd	Why not? It's a very clean way to do your development.	21:45
kimd	Not cumbersome at all.	21:45
+patspam	I did it for over a year when my OS was windows	21:45
kimd	Have to set it up only once.	21:45
kimd	Instead of installing the wre you download the image and install that.	21:46
kimd	Then you use ssh and sshfs for everything else.	21:46
kimd	No problem at all. In particular not when working with gnome or kde.	21:46
kimd	Performance should not be a problem.	21:46
kimd	Our productive site is running on a vm.	21:47
+patspam	and when you're editing webgui core files?	21:48
+patspam	or just your own code on the vm	21:48
+patspam	you have to do it over ssh	21:48
+patspam	slow	21:48
+patspam	and you waste a whole lot of memory running the vm	21:48
kimd	gnome-vfs is your friend.	21:48
kimd	Come on, have you ever run short of memory on your development system?	21:48
+patspam	sure	21:49
kimd	Never happened to me. I have 2 GB installed and that has always been sufficient.	21:49
kimd	patspam, are you installing the vm already after having heard my convincing arguments?	21:59
+patspam	ha no, sorry	21:59
kimd	Doesn't matter. I am used to people not listening to me ;-)	22:00
kimd	My daughter is worst.	22:00
+patspam	kimd: I'm listening but like I said I've been down the vm route and I didn't like it	22:03
kimd	That's because the image supplied is terrible.	22:04
kimd	And configuration is a pain when you do it for the first time.	22:04
kimd	I am not using virtualization myself for development.	22:04
kimd	But I really believe that this is going to be the future.	22:05
kimd	Spend not time on installing something, but rather start immediately.	22:05
+patspam	no that's not the reason, I used to create my own vm from scratch customised exactly how I like it	22:05
+patspam	the problem was the vm	22:05
+patspam	I hated that barrier	22:05
+patspam	it's only a thin barrier but it was enough to annoy me on a daily basis	22:06
kimd	But there are little barriers these days as network integration is getting better and better.	22:06
kimd	Admittedly, on windows it is still a pain.	22:07
+patspam	typing 'wgd' before certain commands is much less pain, especially since I do a lot of other things via wgd plugins	22:07
kimd	I very much love linux in this respect.	22:07
kimd	What I do is using separate tabs in my gnome shell.	22:07
kimd	In one I run the setenvironment script.	22:07
+patspam	yeah I used to do that too, but every now and then I'd forget which shell I was in, and accidentally install a new cpan module into the wrong site_perl etc..	22:09
kimd	I see. So the problem is your memory, not the wre :-P	22:10
+patspam	so instead I have a 'wrecpan' alias for installing cpan modules into the wre, and for everything else stick to wgd (which runs in a different perl to the wre)	22:10
+patspam	ha yeah, and that's something I can't hack a solution for ;)	22:10
@Haarg	i used to never run setenvironment, but had a script 'wre' that would run setenvironment then whatever you gave it as parameters	22:12
+patspam	and now?	22:13
@Haarg	not using the wre at all	22:13
+patspam	ha, I can see a pattern here..	22:13
@Haarg	we've still had problems compiling it on os x 10.6 iirc.	22:14
kimd	Are there a lot of mac users among devs?	22:17
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@Haarg	everyone at plain black is on mac	22:18
@preaction	yes, i can't compile the damned thing on 10.6	22:18
+patspam	even now that koen has a mac?	22:22
kimd	Why is that? Does it have any advantages or are you all trying to be slick?	22:22
kimd	Ok. Enough for today. Happy hacking everyone! And enjoy your fancy macs ;-)	22:27
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michaleR	on a fresh install - just finished doing the first config - I get "unable to instantiate your style template" What's the usual cause for this?	23:28
Getty	party!	23:54
Getty	here is action	23:54
--- Day changed Sun Apr 04 2010
@preaction	michaleR: type ?func=edit at the end of the URL and then click "Save". it should never happen, ever.	00:08
michaleR	preaction: thank you, trying now, see I need to log in ... going to fail safe mode	00:12
michaleR	login and still get permission denied.	00:12
michaleR	hmmmm	00:12
michaleR	OK, I've got the Edit Template up...	00:20
michaleR	and the default template is blank...But I've saved it and now It's displaying ugly but functional. Thank you,	00:23
michaleR	This implies that the templates were null in the db. Yes?	00:29
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michaleR	Turn Admin On - Logs the user out? At least in Firefox and Chrome... ??	04:36
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kimd	Haarg, is that 1 am at the place where you live?	10:30
@Haarg	it's 2:35AM right now	10:36
kimd	Oh. I hope you have a big pot of strong coffee.	10:36
kimd	Important deadlines to meet?	10:36
@Haarg	not really	10:43
@Haarg	not doing much at all really. my schedule is always messed up on the weekends though.	10:43
kimd	:-)	10:48
kimd	I guess I can safely put into the category "night active human being".	10:48
kimd	put you...	10:48
kimd	Btw, do webgui devs work from home?	10:53
@Haarg	mostly	10:55
@Haarg	i work from the office because i am terrible at working from home	10:55
kimd	I totally understand. It's nice to have some colleagues around.	10:56
kimd	Haarg, I wish you a good night. We are heading towards the family. Eastern is calling...	11:33
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+perlDreamer	morning, Haarg	18:02
@Haarg	morning	18:02
+perlDreamer	Haarg: have you read the release notes for JSON 2.21?	18:05
@Haarg	i haven't, no	18:06
+perlDreamer	http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/MAKAMAKA/JSON-2.21/Changes	18:06
@Haarg	the encoding thing?	18:07
+perlDreamer	I was more thinking about the "infinite loop" in relaxed mode	18:07
@Haarg	i'm not sure how to read that exactly	18:09
@Haarg	it was a fix in 2.17	18:09
@Haarg	but the note makes it sound like it was only a problem in 2.16+	18:09
@Haarg	which would mean it was only a problem in 2.16	18:10
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+perlDreamer	yeah, I'm wondering if we need to bump our requirements for JSON, so users don't get bit by it	18:12
+perlDreamer	of course, our JSON is emitted by JSON.pm as well, so we're probably safe	18:12
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CIA-104	WebGUI: jt * r12465 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/.pm: Removing strange i18n file.	18:38
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r8327e35 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove i18n cruft in Dutch and Spanish. Fixes bug #11506 - http://bit.ly/cKIx6h	18:41
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2de75ea / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove i18n cruft in Dutch and Spanish. Fixes bug #11506 - http://bit.ly/bUEkZe	18:43
+perlDreamer	Haarg, re our talk last week about CS and sort scratch variables: http://gist.github.com/356500	18:53
@Haarg	it might be good to have it use 'revisionDate' instead of 'assetData.revisionDate' for the form param	18:59
+perlDreamer	true. there's no need to use assetData's over Thread's	19:00
+perlDreamer	do you think I should add in any other fields?	19:00
+perlDreamer	prior to this fix, _any_ valid post field could be used	19:01
@Haarg	which is intentional, but not particularly useful	19:01
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kimd	Happy Easter!	20:20
+perlDreamer	Happy Easter, kimd	20:20
kimd	Everyone painted his or her eggs?	20:21
+perlDreamer	yup	20:21
kimd	Good. That's more than I did.	20:21
+perlDreamer	uh oh. Is the young one upset?	20:21
kimd	No. We have enough chocolate to compensate :-D	20:22
kimd	preaction, have I mentioned that I start to like git?	20:24
kimd	git question: Does git pull also pull changes from an upstream repository (if configured of course)?	20:33
@preaction	yes, provided you specify which remote and branch you want to pull from	20:35
+perlDreamer	you can set each local branch to track an upstream repo, so it's handled automatically when you do git pull	20:35
kimd	I followed instructions in the wiki and did	20:37
kimd	git config remote.origin.url git@github.com:plainblack/webgui.git	20:37
kimd	Does that cause pulls from the original webgui repo for all branches?	20:37
kimd	Ah, no. My mistake.	20:37
+perlDreamer	preaction, re CS sorting fields	20:38
+perlDreamer	$self is not a CS	20:38
+perlDreamer	and building a prototypical one via newByPropertyHashRef you have to list all the fields	20:38
+perlDreamer	since it doesn't provide defaults from the Definition	20:38
+perlDreamer	I could walk the definition and build a set of fields	20:38
+perlDreamer	but an preferring to just whitelist the fields that we allow people to use as defaults from the definition	20:39
@preaction	okay, go with the whitelist	20:39
+perlDreamer	btw, getThreadsPaginator.t is awesome	20:39
@preaction	thanks. it was step 1 in fixing the four different ways to get threads	20:40
+perlDreamer	newByPropertyHashRef WILL d.r.t in WebGUI 8 and not just have sparse properties	20:46
+perlDreamer	I can see the cognitive dissonance forming even now	20:46
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6990f52 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bug #11510, allowing non-valid sort fields in the form params to CS. - http://bit.ly/aud7qA	20:47
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r776f0c4 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bug #11510, allowing non-valid sort fields in the form params to CS. - http://bit.ly/bO5cS1	20:48
+perlDreamer	kimd, from what I'm seeing in the revision log for RequestApprovalForVersionTag, it's always been plain text	20:52
kimd	Hm. Maybe, it was my e-mail client then automatically recognizing the URL.	20:53
+perlDreamer	I would guess that is it	20:53
kimd	I am going to repost as RFE. Ok?	20:53
+perlDreamer	No. If you post that as an RFE, it will be approved and accepted	20:53
+perlDreamer	we shall fix it as a UI improvement	20:54
+perlDreamer	A copy of that message goes into the Inbox	20:54
+perlDreamer	and it should be a real link anyway	20:54
+perlDreamer	because a browser won't autodetect it as a link	20:54
kimd	Ok. You want to do it? Or should I do it?	20:54
kimd	I should have time by tomorrow evening.	20:55
+perlDreamer	I think I'll do it right now	20:55
kimd	That's fine. I won't argue :-)	20:55
kimd	Still I have to bug you with git again.	20:56
kimd	I have the following lines in my config:	20:56
kimd	remote.upstream.url=git://github.com/plainblack/webgui.git	20:56
kimd	remote.upstream.fetch=+refs/heads/:refs/remotes/upstream/	20:56
kimd	Still, git pull only seems to pull from my fork and not the upstream repository.	20:56
+perlDreamer	I believe that for all new branches that it will set the right things for you	20:56
kimd	For instance, I cannot see your latest commit.	20:57
kimd	What about my master branch?	20:57
+perlDreamer	for branches that already exist, you may have to set them to track automatically	20:57
kimd	Where to look for instructions?	20:57
+perlDreamer	man git-branch	20:57
kimd	Hm. I am stuck.	21:02
kimd	According to documentation, my fork is automatically set as upstream repository for my local master branch.	21:02
kimd	That is why I get nothing when I do git pull.	21:03
kimd	I can do git pull upstream master.	21:03
kimd	But that has caused divergence in the past.	21:03
kimd	This is really confusing.	21:03
kimd	Is there anyone online working with a fork of the webgui repository?	21:03
kimd	How did you handle this?	21:03
+perlDreamer	I think people usually pull from the original (forked from) repo by hand	21:04
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3417650 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix #11511. URLs in version tag approval emails should be links. - http://bit.ly/cPtuBT	21:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1df580f / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix #11511. URLs in version tag approval emails should be links. - http://bit.ly/apm0sz	21:05
kimd	You mean "git pull upstream master" in combination with the upstream configuration I have posted before?	21:06
+perlDreamer	I don't think you need the additional configuration to do git pull otherRepo otherBranch	21:08
@preaction	provided "otherRepo" is already set up as a remote, no, it should just work	21:08
kimd	preaction, I believe I somehow screwed my master branch.	21:20
kimd	I am going to re-create it and see what happens.	21:20
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* perlDreamer heads off for a run		22:07
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@Haarg	kimd, your local master branch may not be configured as a tracking branch	22:49
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+patspam	perlDreamer: back from your run yet?	23:24
+perlDreamer	yes sir!	23:32
@tavisto	I don't think jogging to your fridge to grab a beer counts as "a run"	23:40
+perlDreamer	tavisto, technically that's wobbling to the fridge and back	23:41
+perlDreamer	the extra motion burns more calories	23:41
@tavisto	I suppose the wobbling gets worse depending on how many trips you've made :)	23:42
+perlDreamer	definitely	23:42
kimd	perlDreamer, I went out for a run today, too!	23:44
kimd	It felt good.	23:44
+perlDreamer	I like running	23:44
kimd	Was the first in two years.	23:44
kimd	I like it too. But I usually get bored after 40 minutes.	23:45
@preaction	fft, biking will always be better	23:45
kimd	fft?	23:45
+perlDreamer	fft ~~ meh	23:45
kimd	meh?	23:45
kimd	Don't confuse me.	23:45
+perlDreamer	wisconsin based sound used to denigrate other people's opinions	23:45
+perlDreamer	either that, or one of preaction's bike tires are leaking air	23:46
kimd	Ah, it's not an abbreviation for anything.	23:46
+perlDreamer	or, perhaps preaction himself is leaking air	23:46
kimd	Where is it stored in his body?	23:46
+perlDreamer	hmmmm	23:46
kimd	But I agree. Biking is also nice.	23:47
+perlDreamer	well, primary storage is two pulmonary sacs in the chest cavity	23:47
kimd	Did I mention I am going to live near the black forest?	23:47
kimd	That's good biking terrain.	23:47
kimd	Secondary storage?	23:47
+perlDreamer	that's good terrain for everything	23:47
kimd	Ther must be a backup.	23:47
+perlDreamer	nasal cavities, and gastro-intestinal	23:47
+perlDreamer	however, gas exchange does not happen in those area	23:48
+perlDreamer	where near the black forest, kimd?	23:48
kimd	Basel	23:48
kimd	L�rrach, actually, on the German side.	23:48
kimd	Ever been there?	23:48
+perlDreamer	may have driver through it on the way to Hausach or Wolfach	23:49
kimd	Do you have friends there?	23:49
kimd	Btw, I solved my git problems.	23:50
kimd	I had to reset to the commit before the commit causing conflicts.	23:51
kimd	After that I mirrored to my remote repo and pulled in changes from the webgui repo.	23:51
kimd	Now it seems to be working.	23:51
kimd	Fantastic.	23:51
kimd	Still, this is really complicated.	23:51
+perlDreamer	this is embarrassing, I can't remember the name of the town	23:53
+perlDreamer	although, to get there by train we had to go through Switzerland	23:53
+patspam	yay, just submitted my WUC talk proposal	23:59
+perlDreamer	cool! What's up patspam?	23:59
--- Day changed Tue Apr 06 2010
+patspam	ah not much, I was going to ask you if you thought I was mad to try to pitch my talk as Intermediate, but I decided to go with Advanced in the end	00:00
+perlDreamer	yeah, plack is definitely advanced	00:01
+perlDreamer	or are we calling it wackgui now?	00:01
+patspam	heh	00:01
kimd	What's plack, btw?	00:01
kimd	I read that word before in the chat.	00:01
kimd	Maybe I should join the talk.	00:02
+perlDreamer	plack is a technology that lets you write web-apps without worrying about what's running underneath you	00:02
+patspam	the implications are worth communicating to the non-Advanced crowd - e.g. business owners can start contemplating new types of innovative webgui-powered sites	00:02
+perlDreamer	so you can run on FCGI mode, or apache/mod-perl, or just about anything	00:02
+patspam	but I guess it's too early for that	00:02
kimd	Will that be the future?	00:03
kimd	Is it something an average user will have to worry about?	00:03
@Haarg	it is also meant to make it easy to combine multiple plack apps and run them together	00:03
+perlDreamer	patspam, I could use a TWG consult.	00:03
@Haarg	plack itself is mainly concerned with IO stuff	00:03
+perlDreamer	I need to supply a default font color for all account plugins	00:04
+perlDreamer	should I stuff that into wg-base.css, or create an account.css?	00:04
@Haarg	kimd: http://search.cpan.org/~miyagawa/PSGI-1.03/PSGI/FAQ.pod if you want to read about it	00:04
+perlDreamer	and, if only we'd used File Pump, I could put this into 1 place, instead of into each and every template...	00:04
+patspam	yeah!	00:04
kimd	Thanks, Haarg!	00:05
kimd	I am going to have a look at it.	00:05
+patspam	I think you could go either way, since account plugins are core in a sense	00:05
@Haarg	i've been using plack for a few personal projects and am loving it more and more.	00:05
+patspam	as long as it has some sort of account-specific selector on it this time around I'm sure the TWG will be happy	00:05
@Haarg	i set up a plack server running inside x-chat the other day (something a friend wanted to do). it feels wrong for it to be so easy.	00:06
kimd	I still have only a vague idea what it does.	00:06
kimd	All this abstract technical stuff is causing me headaches.	00:07
+patspam	Haarg: yeah I've been using Tatsumaki a bit for random projects, I like the way it unifies blocking and non-blocking into one API	00:07
+perlDreamer	that's exactly it, though, kimd	00:08
+perlDreamer	it's about abstraction	00:08
@Haarg	have you used anyevent much patspam?	00:08
+perlDreamer	no longer being tied to a particular implementation, like modperl	00:08
kimd	I figured that. It's all that layering stuff.	00:08
kimd	To be honest, I don't even know what modperl does.	00:09
+patspam	Haarg: first exposure to it was Tatsumaki	00:09
kimd	I have never dealt with that part of WebGUI.	00:09
+perlDreamer	we've done a pretty good job of encapsulating it	00:09
kimd	I assume it's the interface between the web server and WebGUI?	00:09
+perlDreamer	inside Session.pm and it's subclasses	00:09
+patspam	seems really nice though	00:09
kimd	I am glad I do not have to deal with it.	00:09
kimd	Good job indeed.	00:10
kimd	Ok, guys. It's bed time for me. Have a productive time!	00:10
kimd	Good night.	00:10
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@Haarg	i started working with poe recently, and have been trying to figure out anyevent now. i keep trying to figure out how you would do something like poe's yield in anyevent. i haven't really tried much though.	00:11
+perlDreamer	there's an account.css... that helps a lot	00:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r977036f / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix #11513, account text follows site defaults. Set a default font color for Account content in root/import/account/account.css - http://bit.ly/b0vrVG	00:19
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r6e25265 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix #11513, account text follows site defaults. Set a default font color for Account content in root/import/account/account.css - http://bit.ly/99ebYP	00:22
+perlDreamer	what's that thing you're supposed to do after you run?	00:25
+perlDreamer	...	00:25
+perlDreamer	oh yeah, eat	00:25
* perlDreamer slumps in his chair		00:25
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mech422	hey pd - in profile.pm, an edit form gets built dynamically and the template loops over profile_fields_loop - but I can't see profile_fields_loop getting built anywhere? is there some magic in the super class that builds it ?	00:59
+perlDreamer	mech422: try looking in User.pm	01:07
+perlDreamer	no, it's all done in Account/Profile.pm	01:09
+perlDreamer	the actual form building is done in www_edit	01:09
+perlDreamer	but it's passed off to another subroutine, where it sets the template variables	01:09
mech422	I'm specifically trying to figure out how it 'knows' what XX_fields_loop to build? so I can do the same in my account module... looking at the www_edit method, I see it mucking with $var->{'profile_category_loop'} (but not appending any categories to it?) but nothing for the profile_fields_loop	01:14
mech422	so I was guessing a 'magic' var got build based on module name ? (MODULE_fields_loop ?)	01:15
+perlDreamer	no	01:15
+perlDreamer	keep tracing the code, www_edit, appendCategoryVars and appendCommonVars	01:16
+perlDreamer	that should be all you need	01:16
mech422	kk	01:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9b36e44 / (5 files in 5 dirs): Added JS-type cancel button to edit view of WebGUI::Asset::Post (Bug #11514) - http://bit.ly/9jVL2i	01:19
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r01f0250 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Proper bug attribution to Bernd. - http://bit.ly/9J39Kq	01:19
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r9b2fff7 / (5 files in 5 dirs): Added JS-type cancel button to edit view of WebGUI::Asset::Post (Bug #11514) - http://bit.ly/c2XFiL	01:20
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rd6f4073 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Proper bug attribution to Bernd. - http://bit.ly/diYQJp	01:20
mech422	oh crap, I'm an idgit...thanks pd	01:21
+perlDreamer	probably smoked too much zope in your ill-spent youth	01:21
+perlDreamer	:)	01:22
mech422	yeah - got tunnel vision looking at the www_edit, and settings routines	01:22
mech422	prolly should look at the other 90% of the file too :-P	01:22
* perlDreamer heads off to pick up kiddos from school		01:23
+perlDreamer	back in 20	01:24
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elnino	anyone here from the template group?	01:43
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+perlDreamer	elnino, any feedback on those gallery bugs?	01:59
elnino	oh lordy. no.	02:00
* perlDreamer prepares to quote Mr. Filch		02:07
mech422	http://www.nakidness.com/images/funny/people/kids/full_brazilian/	02:07
mech422	whoops - wrong channel :-P	02:07
+perlDreamer	no nudie pictures mech422!	02:07
mech422	actually, its not :-P I'm not that kind of Mech	02:08
mech422	its more a "wishing for nudie" picture	02:08
mech422	here ya go pd - you'll think this is cute : http://www.nakidness.com/images/funny/pets/dogs/crocodile_dog_suit/	02:21
mech422	kk - the dog in the croc suit made my afternoon :-)	02:24
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elnino	anyone here familiar with temlates? I'm trying to do several layouts using the wg's sidebyside and rightcolumn. but i'm not getting any position blocks to show.	02:47
elnino	s/several/nested	02:47
elnino	what does * html do in css?	02:52
elnino	and how do you google "*"?	02:53
@preaction	elnino: "ghost root hack"	02:55
elnino	heh?	02:55
@Haarg	it's a rule that only applies to IE	02:56
elnino	I have no idea what that means preaction	02:56
@preaction	google that instead of "*"	02:56
@Haarg	it's a css hack that depends on a peculiarity of ie's DOM	02:57
elnino	hm.. ok.	03:00
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * rc356a7a / (8 files in 8 dirs): DateTime::Event::ICal in Calendar, workflow to extend recurrence - http://bit.ly/8Y9zEr	03:12
+perlDreamer	frodwith, all new modules have to be documented in docs/gotchas.txt. Could you do that, please?	03:16
@frodwith	damnit preaction	03:17
@frodwith	perldreamer: yes, I noted it in the changelog	03:17
@preaction	what? you said you did that	03:17
@frodwith	perldreamer: putting it in gotchas now	03:17
+perlDreamer	thanks, sir!	03:17
elnino	ok. let me ask this. anyone know what might cause two position blocks in a page layout to be black when hovering/moving an asset?	03:17
+perlDreamer	nice tests, btw	03:17
+perlDreamer	elnino, black is supposed to be the highlight color	03:18
+perlDreamer	maybe you could paste the layout templates?	03:18
+perlDreamer	are they core ones, or custom?	03:18
elnino	yes, im trying to do nested layouts. like rightcolumn and one column does a twooverone type thing	03:18
elnino	but I'm not sure what the layout and wg-content-position class identifiers do.	03:19
* perlDreamer heads back to the kitchen, bbiaw		03:19
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * r89b07a4 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt docs/gotcha.txt): Noted new dependancy in the wrong place - http://bit.ly/cadmrz	03:19
elnino	for clrarity: http://pastebin.com/Aips5HRT - the actual template code is way too long.	03:27
elnino	Im pretty sure wg doesn; like e using the layout idenitfer more than once.	03:28
mech422	Is there an easy way to see/dump what vars are available at a given template scope ?	03:57
mech422	<tmpl_loop all> or something ?	03:57
@Haarg	not really mech422.	04:00
@Haarg	you could do it with Template::Toolkit	04:00
mech422	blah - I have no idea where my var is going... I didn't give it permission to wander off and leave the rest of the template!!	04:01
mech422	I have : http://pastebin.com/LwUe2P15	04:03
mech422	and template: http://pastebin.com/hszGxF8h	04:04
mech422	it appears <tmpl_loop dmn_account_loop> is evaluating to an empty loop as the dmn_test message doesn't display	04:04
+perlDreamer	you commented out the code that does the magic, mech422	04:08
+perlDreamer	you let out the magic smoke	04:08
mech422	pd -what magic ? I basically inlined appendCategoryVars ?	04:09
mech422	I _thought_ any element of $var got exposed to template, but it appears more complicated then that ?	04:10
+perlDreamer	it's a loop of loops	04:12
+perlDreamer	can you remind me what the top level goal of this is?	04:12
+perlDreamer	maybe you can get what you want a simpler way	04:12
mech422	I don't really need the nested loops - I just need a fields for a single 'tab'	04:14
mech422	so I thought I'd just do something like $var->fields (array)	04:14
mech422	but that didn't work to good	04:15
+perlDreamer	you can make a custom template that drops the tabbed interface	04:15
+perlDreamer	and set the profile fields to be invisible and uneditable	04:15
mech422	actually - I got the tabs across the top working...	04:15
mech422	its the template for 'my' module (1 radio box!!) thats the problem	04:16
+perlDreamer	elnino, that looks like rendered code	04:16
+perlDreamer	mech422, go up another level	04:16
+perlDreamer	what are you trying to do?	04:16
mech422	should any keys/elements added to $var be available to the template ?	04:16
+perlDreamer	mech422, if you're at the same level or lower, yes	04:17
+perlDreamer	if you just want to add a radio button, you can add more profile fields	04:17
mech422	I'm adding an 'account' module that will eventually function as a 'dashboard' for our site specific user stuff - subscription, newsletter subsciption, access to paid services, etc. Right now, it just needs a single 'subscribe to newsletter' radio button	04:18
+perlDreamer	then you shouldn't build this like the profile module	04:19
mech422	tried adding it as a profile field - but can't set the profile field defaults using arbitrary perl code - I need to go out to our mass email provider, and query the subscription database to 'get' an accounts current status, and need to send updates back if the user changes the status	04:19
+perlDreamer	for that, you make a custom Form plugin	04:19
+perlDreamer	and set it to be Profile Enabled	04:19
+perlDreamer	then you can add it as a profile field	04:19
+perlDreamer	see, now we're getting somewhere	04:20
mech422	and I do that for every custom field initializer I want to add later ?	04:20
mech422	that sounds counter productive	04:20
+perlDreamer	sometimes yes, sometimes no	04:20
+perlDreamer	but basing that kind of code on the Profile module is not wise	04:21
+perlDreamer	it's designed to be automatically extensible and flexible	04:21
+perlDreamer	you don't need all that in this case	04:21
mech422	I actually went with the 'account plugin' because I'll have a bunch of external systems to talk to - and getting to build the form myself just seemed easier..	04:21
+perlDreamer	it would be much easier	04:21
mech422	I'm not really 'basiing' it on profile - I'm using profile to try and figure out how the form/template stuff works	04:22
+perlDreamer	it's two steps that are interrelated	04:22
mech422	I hand build the form field using Form:Radio	04:22
+perlDreamer	yeah just get rid of all the loop stuff	04:22
+perlDreamer	pass the Template a hashref of variables	04:22
mech422	kk - trying that now	04:23
elnino	perlDreamer, yes, the template code is too long. I wanted people to see the div classes I've choosen to use. - that is what Im trying to accomplish, but I dont think wg likes me using nested "layout" identifiers like that.	04:36
elnino	I think Im just going to use tables.	04:36
mech422	pd - this look better ? http://pastebin.com/s2prxeMW (I have 2 test elements, and a loop element getting added for testing...)	04:37
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Form::Radio is a class name	04:40
+perlDreamer	you need to call a method in it to do anything useful	04:40
mech422	poop - just guessed there...	04:41
+perlDreamer	I suggest WebGUI::Form::radio, which is a subroutine in the WebGUI::Form package	04:41
mech422	but dmn_test and dmn_test1 don't appear to be available... or is that cuz the form field is horked	04:41
mech422	http://pastebin.com/cBZSd7JK	04:41
elnino	by "not like", wg thinks the nested positions with in the oute position are all the same, and all turn black when I attempted to move an asset to posistion.	04:42
+perlDreamer	I'd need to see the template code to tell one way or the other, elnino	04:43
+perlDreamer	but you do have those nested div with the same class	04:43
+perlDreamer	that could be very bad	04:43
elnino	ok ill post it just a sec	04:43
+perlDreamer	mech422, the template itself looks okay. drop the call to SUPER::appendCommonVars and see what it says	04:45
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mech422	still nothing	04:48
mech422	let me remove the horked form field and just try it with the test keys	04:49
+perlDreamer	mech422, have you checked the apache error log, and the webgui log?	04:52
mech422	http://pastebin.com/UKLwrfxG	04:52
mech422	let me check again...	04:52
mech422	modperl error log looks ok - webgui log looks ok	04:53
mech422	template: http://pastebin.com/30cdZcrx I just expected to see 'DMN TEST' and 'DMN TEST1' in logs	04:54
mech422	err... in page	04:55
+perlDreamer	are you using the right template?	04:55
elnino	perlDreamer http://pastebin.com/ny4TCdMN - but don't worry abou tit much. I'm going with tables at this oint. I have a deadline.	04:55
mech422	if I change the string literal at the top of the page - it changes when I refresh	04:56
mech422	so it appears to be correct	04:56
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mech422	http://pastebin.com/8mKdfYVb <- cut it down to 9 lines, still nothing	05:00
+perlDreamer	mech422, could you paste the whole account plugin, please?	05:03
+perlDreamer	something doesn't seem right	05:03
+perlDreamer	like, are you sure that you're calling the edit method?	05:03
mech422	I thought www_edit was hardcoded or something - do I configure the method name somewhere ?	05:05
mech422	http://pastebin.com/TnjBMcR3 <- full plugin	05:06
+perlDreamer	mech422, www_view is hardcoded	05:10
+perlDreamer	www_edit has to be called specifically	05:10
+perlDreamer	now we're getting down to it	05:10
mech422	ah-ha!	05:10
+perlDreamer	to call www_edit, you need to have op=account;method=edit (I think)	05:11
+perlDreamer	put all that code into www_view instead	05:11
mech422	Woot! that did it !	05:12
+perlDreamer	now are you in business?	05:13
+perlDreamer	also, if you want a simple yes/no field, use WebGUI::Form::yesNo	05:13
+perlDreamer	it will do the right thing already, and is internationalized to boot	05:13
mech422	thanks pd !! :-)	05:14
mech422	yeah - I looked at WebGUI:Form and WebGUI::Form::Radio - but couldn't puzzle them out...	05:15
+perlDreamer	Radio is 1 radio button	05:15
+perlDreamer	not very useful	05:15
+perlDreamer	RadioList is several buttons for the same form variable name	05:15
+perlDreamer	YesNo is special Radio List with only two buttons, yes and no	05:15
+perlDreamer	Form is a dispatcher to any of the form fields, using AUTOLOAD	05:16
mech422	ahh - I thought there might be some perl voodoo in there	05:16
mech422	let me go look at YesNo...	05:16
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:59
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+bartjol	morning SDuensin	17:51
SDuensin	Hey bartjol	17:51
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kimd	Native speakers, would you prefer the label "rotate left" or "rotate counter clockwise"?	18:56
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+perlDreamer	morning, folks	19:50
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@preaction	if it is a good morning which i doubt	19:54
@preaction	http://www.break.com/index/math-teacher-shadow-trick-during-lecture.html	19:56
+perlDreamer	what kind of calamity do we need to cause this morning, preaction?	19:58
@preaction	we could always blow up the urth	19:58
+perlDreamer	if we blow it up, we couldn't rule it, though	19:59
@preaction	who would want to rule it? i have enough trouble just living on it	19:59
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+perlDreamer	nice video, preaction	20:07
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+perlDreamer	patspam, I fixed the Survey multi-slider!	21:14
+patspam	congrats!	21:14
+patspam	perlDreamer++	21:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r33c54b6 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bug #11469, multi-allocation slider doesn't work. Make sure that allocMax is set in all cases. - http://bit.ly/aSnWgW	21:15
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r0bac357 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bug #11469, multi-allocation slider doesn't work. Make sure that allocMax is set in all cases. - http://bit.ly/afeHUh	21:15
+perlDreamer	next week is a very big week	21:17
+patspam	why is that?	21:17
+perlDreamer	that's the end of the 6 week beta testing period for the spectre bug fix	21:18
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+patspam	oooh	21:18
+perlDreamer	so, if it works, no more spectre restarts	21:18
kimd	perlDreamer, are you familiar with thumbnail generation?	21:28
kimd	I have a strange phenomenon here.	21:28
+perlDreamer	too familiar, kimd	21:28
kimd	That's good.	21:28
kimd	I cannot get an updated thumbnail after rotating all pictures attached to a photo asset.	21:29
kimd	The pictures (that is all resolutions) are rotated properly.	21:29
+perlDreamer	but the thumbnail isn't updated	21:29
+perlDreamer	it stays in the original orientation?	21:29
kimd	The thumbnail, however, remains unchanged after calling ->generateThumbnail.	21:29
kimd	You are typing too fast :-)	21:30
kimd	Yes, exactly.	21:30
+perlDreamer	Does the same thing happen with an Image Asset?	21:30
kimd	I get no error messages.	21:30
kimd	Not sure. I am working with the gallery only at the moment.	21:30
kimd	It's about RFE #620.	21:31
kimd	Any idea or hint?	21:31
kimd	I checked generateThumbnail already.	21:31
kimd	It does a call to WebGUI::Storage::generateThumbnail.	21:31
kimd	I do not see why it should not work.	21:32
+perlDreamer	where does the call happen?	21:32
kimd	Could this be a browser caching issue?	21:32
kimd	Wait, I am going to put the code into a pastebin.	21:32
+perlDreamer	it could be a browser caching issue	21:33
kimd	perlDreamer, check http://webgui.pastebin.com/tLd9kDiZ	21:33
kimd	One moment, please. I need to bring my daughter to bed.	21:34
+perlDreamer	the next thing I would check is the timestamp on the thumbnail file, and make sure it is being updated correctly without using a browser	21:36
kimd	perlDreamer, can that be true? It's magically working now.	21:40
kimd	You must have some extraordinary powers.	21:41
+perlDreamer	extraordinary powers only available in the United States, and Germany. All rights reserved. For more information on extraordinary powers, please visit www.perldreamer.com	21:41
+perlDreamer	kimd, what can we do about the Shortcut metadata filter hoverhelp to make it clearer?	21:42
kimd	Hm. Good question.	21:49
kimd	Let me have a look.	21:49
kimd	I will try to come up with something useful.	21:49
kimd	perlDreamer, I guess one thing that would help is graying out elements if the filter is not enabled. The current appearance suggests, that filters and additional meta data gui elements are not related.	21:51
kimd	In addition I would add a line of help between the filter text box and meta data fields.	21:51
kimd	Something like "Use meta data fields to construct filter rules."	21:52
kimd	Does that make sense?	21:52
+perlDreamer	yes	21:52
+perlDreamer	I don't know about adding the extra line of help	21:52
+perlDreamer	it does have hoverhelp	21:52
kimd	That's true. But the hoverhelp does not cover meta data form elements.	21:53
kimd	Maybe you could extend hoverhelp with some instructions?	21:53
+perlDreamer	definitely	21:53
+perlDreamer	also, the meta field form elements should be disabled unless "Shortcut by alternate criteria" is selected.	21:53
kimd	Ah. I was too fast. In fact there is already a sentence at the end.	21:53
kimd	Exactly.	21:53
+perlDreamer	the text area grays out, but the builder still works	21:54
kimd	True.	21:54
kimd	Should I add that to my bug report?	21:54
+perlDreamer	yes, please	21:54
+perlDreamer	we could expand the hoverhelp with better instructions, too	21:54
+perlDreamer	one sentence is a little terse for something that complex	21:55
kimd	You are the native speaker and documentation expert. I leave that up to you ;-)	21:57
-!- Getty is now known as _Getty		21:57
-!- _Getty is now known as Getty		21:58
+perlDreamer	kimd, I'm surprised that you didn't notice the i18n bug in there	22:00
+perlDreamer	the Add button in the Shortcut form, it says "Add", right?	22:00
kimd	Wait. I just switched to English.	22:01
kimd	perlDreamer, you are right. Forms apparently are not internationalized.	22:02
kimd	I am going to add another bug report.	22:02
+perlDreamer	they're supposed to be	22:02
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r08b662b / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm): Internationalize the Add button in the Criteria builder for the Shortcut. - http://bit.ly/8ZElxy	22:02
kimd	Ah, damn! You are really fast!	22:02
+perlDreamer	I only did the Add button	22:02
+perlDreamer	do AND and OR need it, too?	22:03
kimd	One moment. My daughter is complaining.	22:03
+perlDreamer	nope, AND and OR are i18n'ed	22:04
kimd	perlDreamer, that's correct. German translation is there already.	22:08
kimd	perlDreamer, thanks for applying the cancel button bug fix. And I am sorry for forgetting about all the other post forms. Were you able to pull my commit without problems?	22:13
+perlDreamer	oh yeah, it worked great	22:13
+perlDreamer	git remote add spunky spunky_git_url	22:14
+perlDreamer	git cherry-pick commitspec	22:14
+perlDreamer	that was all it took	22:14
+perlDreamer	then, wgd edit 5 times	22:14
+perlDreamer	wgd package -u	22:14
+perlDreamer	and done!	22:14
kimd	wgd edit allows you to edit templates directly? Cool!	22:15
kimd	Btw, I accidently re-opened the bug report :-/	22:15
+perlDreamer	wgd edit lets you edit _any_ asset	22:16
+perlDreamer	but it's very handy for templates	22:16
+perlDreamer	kimd, what do you think of this for hoverhelp: http://gist.github.com/357966	22:17
kimd	Yeah, that's great. I would understand now :-)	22:18
* perlDreamer takes a lunch break		22:19
kimd	preaction, do you think drag'n'drop sorting for the gallery is going to make it into 7.9.2?	22:51
@preaction	i'm trying to get through my inbox today, so probably	22:51
kimd	Cool. Let me know if I need to do more.	22:54
kimd	Enough for today. Good night everyone!	22:54
-!- kimd [~spunky@p549F46D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]		22:54
+perlDreamer	what's the DOM command for grabbing elements by class?	23:08
@preaction	there is none.	23:13
@preaction	YUI has one. YUI.util.Dom.getElementsByClassName() i believe	23:13
+perlDreamer	yup, that is i	23:22
+perlDreamer	t	23:22
-!- mech422 [~steve@c-69-181-119-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		23:31
+perlDreamer	almost got it	23:46
+perlDreamer	It would be nice to know why element.concat(YUI.util.Dom.getElementsByClassName()) didn't do the right thing	23:46
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r64f7bd9 / (1004 files in 4 dirs): more work on Admin. added FamFamFam icon set - http://bit.ly/a8kASw	23:47
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rf32f209 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix shortcut hoverhelp, javascript, and criteria builder usability. Fixes bug #11516 - http://bit.ly/c8eJd1	23:53
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r982e511 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix shortcut hoverhelp, javascript, and criteria builder usability. Fixes bug #11516 - http://bit.ly/b8SaPZ	23:54
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf06ce2e / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm): Internationalize the Add button in the Criteria builder for the Shortcut. - http://bit.ly/adjBzw	23:54
--- Day changed Wed Apr 07 2010
+perlDreamer	i love it when I can write javascript	00:00
* perlDreamer heads off to savor the glory, and to pick up the kids from school		00:02
-!- vayde [~vayde@70-59-73-116.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]		00:04
+patspam	riddle me this	00:06
+patspam	why does modperl drop from 180 req/s to 65 req/s when I turn off Apache2::SizeLimit?	00:06
@preaction	that's an excellent question	00:07
@preaction	immediately? or after a while?	00:07
+patspam	immediately	00:07
+patspam	something else is killing child processes?	00:07
@preaction	well there's MaxRequestsPerChild	00:07
+patspam	it's bizarre, even with that commented out or set to 10000	00:08
+patspam	I still hit MaxClients	00:08
+patspam	I'm using ab to benchmark it	00:09
+patspam	with: ab -t 3 -c 10 -k	00:09
+patspam	so, should be 10 concurrent clients	00:09
+patspam	and I have StartServers, MinSpareServers, MaxSpareServers all set to 12	00:10
+patspam	and MaxClients set to 15	00:10
@preaction	10 concurrent clients, but do they request the page collateral too?	00:11
@preaction	also, i might try using siege instead	00:11
+patspam	ab should just do a single GET request i think	00:12
+patspam	it's just bizarre	00:14
+patspam	I set -c set to something smaller like 5, so ab should do 5 concurrent requests, still get 65 req/s, but if I turn on Apache2::SizeLimit, immediately get 100 more reqs/sec	00:15
@preaction	perlDreamer: did you pull from kimd for the bugfix he did?	00:19
+patspam	it's specifically the $Apache2::SizeLimit::CHECK_EVERY_N_REQUESTS setting	00:20
+patspam	the higher I set that, the better my reqs/s become	00:20
+patspam	5 => 160, 20 => 250, 1000 => 350...	00:21
@preaction	that sounds like a good blog entry. perhaps you could do me a favor?	00:24
+patspam	yes?	00:24
@preaction	could you graph a number of points and find an optimal setting before the returns become too much?	00:24
+patspam	sure - except it's likely to be machine dependent right?	00:24
+patspam	I'm interested in modperl performance metrics so that i can do fair comparisons to PSGI	00:26
@preaction	ok	00:27
@preaction	perhaps we could make a script that grabs some data points and then graph them and see if we can find some correlations?	00:28
@preaction	i like performance enhancement almost as much as i like performance measuring	00:28
+patspam	yeah, it'd have to rewrite modperl.pl and restart modperl to get each data point	00:29
@preaction	just a fun (well, interesting to me at least) exercise if you want to do it. some of the other devs might be interested in a quick way to improve performance on their sites too	00:29
+perlDreamer	preaction: yes	00:31
mech422	patspam: according to this http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/api/Apache2/SizeLimit.html thats expected behavior (eg overhead in checkign process size ?)	00:33
+perlDreamer	mech422, but (see head of thread) the funky behavior is with SizeLimit off	00:33
+patspam	hey mech422! yeah it makes sense with SizeLimit enabled.. the thing that confuses me is.. yeah what perlDreamer said!	00:33
mech422	apache has process size limiting 'built in' doesn't it ?	00:34
-!- SDuensin [~scott@173-28-73-10.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]		00:34
* perlDreamer doesn't think so		00:34
mech422	SizeLimit is just 'better' then the default ...	00:34
+perlDreamer	just number of children	00:34
+perlDreamer	number of requests for each child	00:34
+perlDreamer	etc	00:34
mech422	could have sworn it had some max_memory type thing ?	00:34
mech422	ahh well	00:34
mech422	so if there's no max - your trashing?	00:35
mech422	err.. thrashing ?	00:35
-!- SDuensin [~Scott@173-28-73-10.client.mchsi.com] has joined #webgui		00:36
-!- preaction [~doug@207.200.236.230] has quit [Quit: preaction]		00:36
+patspam	I think there's something else killing child processes.. maybe a built-in apache thing or a stray config option somewhere in the depths of the wre	00:36
+perlDreamer	you limit memory usage by limiting the number of children, and the number of requests each child should handle before being reaped	00:36
+patspam	not thrashing, still plenty of memory free	00:37
mech422	so you have plenty of memory, and check_every_NN stops if from doing something that burns cpu cycles...	00:38
+patspam	yeah, that part makes sense	00:38
mech422	killing/respawning processes or what have you	00:38
+patspam	but when Apache2::SizeLimit is supposedly turned off	00:38
+patspam	I still hit MaxClients	00:39
+patspam	and performance drops by 100 req/s	00:39
+patspam	sounds like something less efficient that Apache2::SizeLimit is killing children	00:39
mech422	hmm - define 'turned off' ? it needs to be removed from the perlCleanuphandler in httpd.conf right ?	00:39
mech422	or maybe your setting it to 0 and its busy looping ?	00:40
+patspam	ah maybe that's it!	00:40
+perlDreamer	maybe it's still doing something, even though it's disabled	00:40
+patspam	I'm just commenting out modperl.pl	00:40
mech422	coolio - try that and see if it works ?	00:41
+patspam	mech422++	00:41
+patspam	400 req/s	00:41
mech422	acck - I've been replaced !!	00:41
mech422	Help help !! I'm too cute to increment !!	00:41
+patspam	heh you have to rename your alias to mech423 now	00:42
+perlDreamer	perlbot: karma mech422	00:42
perlbot	perlDreamer: mech422 has karma of 1	00:42
+perlDreamer	as long as we can access his counter, we can still use arithmetic to find mech422	00:43
+perlDreamer	mech422, how's yer plugin comin'?	00:43
mech422	Hmm - does this make me stack based ?	00:43
mech422	pd - good thanks :-) I'm working on the iContact connection now	00:44
+perlDreamer	pointer referencing	00:44
+patspam	awesome, I've got a real target to aim at now for the PSGI branch	00:44
mech422	pd - thanks for all the help yesterday :-) I was really getting a bit confuzzled	00:44
+perlDreamer	you're welcome, mech422	00:44
+perlDreamer	it would be worth doing some code review in Content/Account	00:45
+perlDreamer	to better understand how method calling works	00:45
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re724275 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm : Fix merge problem - http://bit.ly/a8wEKS	00:48
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2ce0ab7 / t/Workflow/Activity/ExtendCalendarRecurrences.t : Case sensitive tables in the ExtendCalendarRecurrences test. - http://bit.ly/diih5b	00:53
+patspam	current best benchmark I can get for WebGUI8 is 30 req/s	01:13
+patspam	whereas master (7.9) is >400 req/s	01:14
+perlDreamer	hm	01:15
+perlDreamer	is this WebGUI8 with plack and Moose, or just WebGUI8 with moose, patspam?	01:16
+patspam	just moose	01:16
+perlDreamer	ouch	01:16
+perlDreamer	13X slower	01:16
+patspam	the WebGUI8 branch in git	01:16
+patspam	do I need to do anything to configure memcached?	01:16
+perlDreamer	I always just run it from the command line	01:16
+perlDreamer	memcached -d	01:16
+perlDreamer	as root	01:16
+patspam	it's running.. how do I tell if webgui is using it?	01:17
+perlDreamer	if it can't find a memcached instance, it will crash badly	01:17
+perlDreamer	so I'd say you're good	01:17
+perlDreamer	although I have heard preaction say that the cache code is slower in wg8	01:18
+perlDreamer	but still, 13X slower is not good	01:18
+perlDreamer	given that wg8 was supposed to be about performance	01:18
+patspam	try running: ab -t 1 -c 10 -k http://dev.localhost.localdomain:8081/ \| grep Req	01:18
+patspam	or equivalent	01:18
+patspam	with StartServers, MinSpareServers, MaxSpareServers, MaxClients all set to 10 in modperl.conf	01:19
+patspam	assuming you're running preform MPM	01:20
+perlDreamer	in Master, I get ~75/sec	01:23
+perlDreamer	in WebGUI8, I get 0.33/sec	01:23
+patspam	do you have $Apache2::SizeLimit::CHECK_EVERY_N_REQUESTS set to something big like 1000?	01:24
+patspam	I was getting 65/sec in Master before I increased it	01:24
+perlDreamer	that's with a source install	01:24
+perlDreamer	and 1/2/5/150 for Start, MinSpare, MaxSpare and MaxClients	01:24
+perlDreamer	hang on	01:27
+perlDreamer	I had it stuck in as a clean-up handler	01:27
+perlDreamer	with no additional configuration	01:27
+perlDreamer	let me comment it out and try again	01:27
+perlDreamer	with the Apache::SizeLimit commented out, I still get about ~75 on the top end	01:30
+perlDreamer	for master	01:30
+perlDreamer	but in WebGUI8 the data varies from 0.6 to 2.6	01:30
+perlDreamer	(range wise)	01:30
+perlDreamer	the average is probably 0.8	01:30
+patspam	PSGI branch gets 20/sec using Starman as the server	01:33
+patspam	for WebGUI8	01:33
+perlDreamer	you win!	01:33
+patspam	heh no, I get 30/sec via modperl	01:33
+patspam	but it's catching up	01:33
+patspam	that's with starman --workers 10	01:33
+patspam	so roughly equivalent to modperl with 10 child processes	01:33
+patspam	except that each starman prefork is only 30 Mb whereas the modperl ones are 70 Mb	01:34
+patspam	although shared memory blah blah	01:34
* perlDreamer tries not to get laptop envy		01:35
mech422	Umm - if your gonna throw in hooks to purge memcached on updates - perhaps it could be generalized to use Varnish as a front-end cache ?	01:38
mech422	(you purge varnish objects by using http requests)	01:39
mech422	if you want mind blowing performance - varnish is where its at :-D	01:39
mech422	hmm - I wonder if there's a modperl thingy for nginx ?	01:46
+perlDreamer	mech422, I think nginx will work in FCGI mode, with a persistent perl interpreter	01:47
+perlDreamer	without the full monte overhead of mod_perl	01:47
* perlDreamer is still shocked at the overhead of Moose		01:48
mech422	yeah - ngnix does FCGI - but can modperl run in a 'normal' perl vm ?	01:48
* mech422 has no clue what modperl 'rules' are or what it changes		01:49
Getty	mod_perl is an apache module.........................	01:49
Getty	so......	01:49
mech422	err...I mean can modperl based code run in a 'normal' perl vm	01:49
Getty	it depends on what features you use, probably	01:49
Getty	mod_perl can be used to just start it like a fastcgi and sets some var / vhosts	01:50
Getty	that can be easily done different in other webservers	01:50
Getty	thats why god invented stuff like catalyst to abstract that problem	01:50
mech422	does modperl have issues with something like this: bless($self, $class_name); $foo = $self->bar() ; blah blah ; return $self	02:10
mech422	(eg can I use $self->method() inside the creator if $self is already blessed ? )	02:11
+perlDreamer	no, and yes	02:11
mech422	Hmm - it keeps looking for bar() in package main	02:12
+perlDreamer	are you inheriting from anything?	02:12
mech422	Umm - Account	02:12
mech422	wait, no	02:13
+perlDreamer	:)	02:13
mech422	I'm use'ing my module from a module based on Account	02:13
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdee5bbe / (8 files in 3 dirs): Proper Moose setup for addRevision... - http://bit.ly/agWSrL	02:13
mech422	and I get:	02:14
mech422	Unable to run www_view on dmnaccount: Can't locate object method "get" via package "main" at /data/DMN/lib/WebGUI/iContactV2.pm line 61.	02:14
mech422	at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Content/Account.pm line 171	02:14
+perlDreamer	does iContactV2 have a get method?	02:15
mech422	yes - and it worked as a standalone module	02:15
* perlDreamer says "hm" and takes a small break		02:16
* mech422 says blah and takes a double shot :-)		02:16
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* mech422 starts gutting code		02:30
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-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		03:08
+patspam	ok this is promising	03:08
+patspam	if I short-circuit contentHandlers in both WebGUI8 and PSGI branches so that they return 200 without doing any work beyond the initial setup	03:09
+patspam	modperl achieves 800 requests/s	03:09
+patspam	PSGI (starman) achieves 1100/sec	03:09
+patspam	so PSGI is now beating modperl, in terms of the basic overhead	03:10
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+patspam	that makes me happy :)	03:12
-!- preaction [~doug@66-168-66-52.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]		03:12
-!- preaction_ is now known as preaction		03:12
mech422	patspam: I'm happy too - I beat my code bloody with a big stick, and it now talks XML to iContact from within a WG 'Account' module :-)	03:27
+patspam	yay!	03:27
+patspam	preaction: you about?	03:27
@preaction	yeah, fixing a compy. sup	03:27
+patspam	WebGUI::Session::Output	03:28
+patspam	does it really need to handle STDOUT and file handles?	03:28
+patspam	not sure if it will be a problem or not, but trying to understand why we have it	03:29
+patspam	and if we will still need it afterwards	03:30
+patspam	the only thing I can see that uses $session->output->setHandle is AssetExportHtml	03:32
+patspam	I don't think we'll need it once we go psgi	03:33
@preaction	we have to have HTML export, absolutely must. doesn't matter how we do it, just that we can do it (and that it can be triggered from the UI)	03:38
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* Getty underlines that		03:41
+patspam	agreed	03:44
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mech422	g'nite all	03:53
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-!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ		04:14
+perlDreamer	patspam++	04:14
+perlDreamer	curse you preaction, and your GalleryFile hacker!	04:15
@preaction	heh	04:15
@preaction	sorry, fixing compy for familia	04:15
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r18466ca / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_GalleryFile.pm : Stubbed out i18n file for Asset_GalleryFile - http://bit.ly/azOYjp	04:25
+perlDreamer	oh, I see	04:27
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re03fdef / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/EMSRibbon.pm : i18n fix for EMSRibbon definition - http://bit.ly/c3LdEh	04:27
+perlDreamer	while I slave away over a hot text editor all day long, you're gallavanting along in the spring-time evenings	04:27
+patspam	woot, just got streaming response body working	04:28
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r54ea1f6 / lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm : Catch exceptions when making assets to commit. - http://bit.ly/dciNj0	04:49
+perlDreamer	curse you again, preaction!	04:54
+perlDreamer	you and your defaultless templateId!	04:55
+perlDreamer	may you grow hair out of your nose and ears	04:55
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1860408 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm :	04:59
CIA-104	webgui: Set a default template for the Subscription role.	04:59
CIA-104	webgui: use WebGUI::Mail::Send, too. - http://bit.ly/cwiYVa	04:59
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc549803 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Article.pm : Reindent Article.pm - http://bit.ly/9FFb36	05:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rce39ad6 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Article.pm : Must set cache after updating, since the attribute clears the cache if the ids are different. - http://bit.ly/aoE5QV	05:11
+perlDreamer	yay! All tests are passing.	05:11
+perlDreamer	all 2794 of them	05:11
+perlDreamer	first time ev_ar	05:12
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r45b6f45 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add tests for Article->getStorageLocation, call addToCleanup by classname. - http://bit.ly/da7B4Y	05:28
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r794b26d / (2 files in 2 dirs): Moose override commit in Thread and CS. - http://bit.ly/cORcVb	05:31
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+patspam	perlDreamer++ congrats!	06:25
+perlDreamer	thanks :)	06:34
+perlDreamer	patspam, you're a very lucky fellow.	06:38
+perlDreamer	Kathy is showing me pictures	06:38
+patspam	of?	06:38
+perlDreamer	You and Helen	06:38
+patspam	ha ow man! facebook?	06:38
+perlDreamer	yeah	06:39
+patspam	ha, I haven't seen them yet, helen just messaged me a few minutes ago saying that someone had tagged some with us in them	06:39
+perlDreamer	you've been outted	06:41
+perlDreamer	programmer, business owner, New York socialite	06:41
+patspam	drunkard =p	06:41
+perlDreamer	"classy" drunkard	06:49
+perlDreamer	not everyone get drunk on fine Oregon wine and Scotch	06:50
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb8a0130 / lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/Subscribable.pm : Provide a default templateId so the magic buttons work. - http://bit.ly/cioK0j	06:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3d593c6 / (61 files in 31 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.2 release - http://bit.ly/chnpuW	06:55
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2e7b230 / (80 files in 40 dirs): Add new uploads. - http://bit.ly/aYxwo2	06:57
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r83ffaf9 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.3 development - http://bit.ly/a15Awz	07:56
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-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.8.15-stable \| 7.9.2-beta \| WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com		09:12
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12466 /translations/German/German/Activity_ExtendCalendarRecurrences.pm: Updating German on translation server	11:29
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12467 /translations/German/German/Asset_Calendar.pm: Updating German on translation server	11:29
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12468 /translations/German/German/ (4 files): Updating German on translation server	11:29
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12469 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (5 files): Updating Dutch on translation server	12:02
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12470 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Photo.pm: Updating Dutch on translation server	12:02
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12471 /translations/German/German/Asset_Photo.pm: Updating German on translation server	12:02
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:56
+perlDreamer	yo, SDuensin	16:56
ckotil	anyone know if the bug has been fixed where search results paginate for results that are not viewable by the user?	16:58
ckotil	example here: http://tinyurl.com/ygnlbwf	16:58
+perlDreamer	there's a bug for that?	17:00
+perlDreamer	ckotil, that page requires a login	17:03
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@preaction	on which page? the Shelf asset? that's not a bu	17:04
@preaction	g	17:04
ckotil	oh, hangon.	17:06
ckotil	http://tinyurl.com/ybqpfpg	17:07
ckotil	forgot i was still on https.	17:07
ckotil	we require login for any https connection	17:07
ckotil	the SSO does anyway	17:07
+patspam	morning	17:18
+patspam	has anyone tested on Perl 5.12.0 yet?	17:18
+perlDreamer	not I	17:20
+perlDreamer	perhaps patspam	17:20
+patspam	no way that guy never does anything productive	17:21
+perlDreamer	ckotil, that is indeed odd	17:21
+perlDreamer	but are you willing to trade large amounts of performance to fix that bug?	17:21
+perlDreamer	preaction: indications are that we have indeed fixed the long-term spectre bug	17:22
@preaction	yay!	17:22
@preaction	what did it end up being?	17:22
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/358934	17:23
+perlDreamer	no return value checking on starting a cron job	17:24
+perlDreamer	if out tester continues to experience no problems, that patch will be included in 7.9.3	17:24
+perlDreamer	and 7.8.18	17:24
@preaction	so then webgui would think it was started, when it never was, and it would never get started again because they're all singleton	17:25
+perlDreamer	right	17:25
@preaction	nice	17:25
ckotil	perlDreamer: nah, its not a real bad bug. just annoying. and noone has even mentioned it yet.	17:25
+perlDreamer	it's definitely ugly	17:25
@preaction	ckotil: the problem is that the search asset only prefilters by group ID, where canView can do anything	17:26
ckotil	ok. makes sense	17:27
ckotil	This sort of thing will be resolved in the greate search rewrite that is webgui8?	17:27
@preaction	there is no great search rewrite	17:33
ckotil	oh. i thought i read that on the todo list.	17:33
+patspam	maybe in wg9 the WRE should bundle kinosearch or something	17:38
@preaction	it was. it got bumped because we didn't have time	17:38
@preaction	how the heck do i merge kimd's branch? i tried "git merge" but then when i go to rebase so i can push it goes all wonky and makes me manually add everything	17:39
ckotil	ah	17:39
+patspam	perlDreamer: just to make you jealous..	17:41
+perlDreamer	the problem isn't the actual search, it's the display code	17:41
+patspam	..I'm running webgui and viewing debug/warnings through inside padre	17:42
+patspam	with clickable line numbers for warns	17:43
+perlDreamer	is that just a special tail -f, or is there additional padre magin involved?	17:43
+patspam	it's via the Plack plugin	17:44
+patspam	the console lets me start/stop/configure the server, and does an equivalent to tail on the output	17:44
+patspam	and detects line number references to make them clickable	17:44
+perlDreamer	I'm not in love with the editor (because it isn't vim) but that's a very nice feature	17:45
+perlDreamer	back in 20	17:45
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+bartjol	mmm, anyone seen an sqlreport complain about empty queries?	18:03
+perlDreamer	only in debug mode, bartjol	18:04
+bartjol	query1 is doing it's job, only query2 (which indeed is empty) fills up the error log	18:05
@Haarg	i believe it's due to the code editor	18:05
@preaction	bartjol: upgrade. that was a problem with the code editor adding "\n" to empty items and sqlreport	18:05
+bartjol	aah, upgrading	18:06
+bartjol	ok, well, not a job for this moment	18:06
+perlDreamer	patspam, are you running the latest kernel on ubuntu?	18:06
+patspam	yeah I think so	18:06
+perlDreamer	having any CDROM problems?	18:07
+bartjol	I had mine crash once I believe	18:07
+bartjol	not sure whether that was the cause	18:07
+patspam	I haven't used my cdrom in months!	18:08
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r9d760ee / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SQLReport.pm : don't warn about white space only in SQLReport queries - http://bit.ly/93kdbx	18:08
+bartjol	so, I'm the best you've got perlDreamer	18:08
+bartjol	It was a DVD, not a cdrom btw	18:09
+perlDreamer	yeah, my bad on that. It's a combo drive	18:10
+perlDreamer	it worked fine until this latest kernel upgrade	18:10
+perlDreamer	now I got no tunes :(	18:10
+bartjol	oh, well, my sound worked fine	18:11
+bartjol	with vlc	18:11
@Haarg	it's been years since i listened to music directly from a cd	18:11
+perlDreamer	Haarg, the library would think badly of me if I started ripping their media :/	18:13
@preaction	they don't gots to knows about it	18:15
* perlDreamer is mercilessly honest		18:15
+perlDreamer	besides, I can't read from it, so I couldn't rip it anyway	18:15
@preaction	well there is that	18:15
+bartjol	oh, preaction you know what version that bug was resolved (+/- 2), don't go searching for it, I can do that too	18:19
@preaction	it was in the 7.7 series, near the end i think	18:19
+bartjol	ok, thanks	18:19
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CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * reee547b / (6 files in 4 dirs): Add drag'n'drop sorting to the Gallery Album Edit View (RFE 11007). - http://bit.ly/bAfv2f	19:54
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * r2023e9c / (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed JS comment in head tags. added credits - http://bit.ly/aQpdnw	19:54
@preaction	yay! finally!	19:54
@preaction	stupid rebase causing problems...	19:54
+perlDreamer	nice work, dude	19:56
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * r528c0e8 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SQLReport.pm : don't warn about white space only in SQLReport queries - http://bit.ly/dCZcVW	19:58
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@preaction	kimd: your change didn't get into 7.9.2 because git decided to yank me around (and minor family emergency). but it's merged now	20:03
kimd	preaction, no problem.	20:04
kimd	I actually came to the chat to ask whether I can make changes you requested before merging the patch.	20:04
kimd	Did you modify the code according to your suggestions?	20:05
kimd	Actually, it's only about the ( something ) && do part.	20:06
@preaction	no, i didn't change it, but go ahead and i can pull that commit too	20:06
@preaction	i fixed the JS comment problem though	20:06
kimd	I think I will do next time I add an action to the www_ajax method.	20:13
@preaction	anyone see this 2 in 3 YUI thing? http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2010/03/31/announcing-yui-3-1-0/ <- lets you load YUI2 components and use them inside of YUI3 code	20:15
@preaction	I.E. we could "transition" to YUI3 and keep all our existing code	20:15
kimd	What's new in YUI3?	20:15
@preaction	it's a ground-up rewrite. a better question is "what isn't new?"	20:16
kimd	I mean like "killer features" in you opinion.	20:16
kimd	Well, I certainly cannot judge this. But I like YUI. If there is a better YUI, why not use it?	20:17
@preaction	it's less annoying to code with. the Gallery/Loader	20:17
@preaction	the Gallery is the real killer app. anyone can put a component into the Gallery and then load it from any site using YUI.use('some-component-name');	20:17
kimd	I will check that. Sounds interesting.	20:20
kimd	preaction, thanks for processing my RFEs. I am quite happy with your answers :-)	20:25
+perlDreamer	Haarg: it turns out there is a very good reason not to use override/super	20:26
@Haarg	oh?	20:26
+perlDreamer	if you have an Asset that uses it	20:26
@preaction	kimd: np, i figured i better so you don't end up slacking off and finding another project ;)	20:26
+perlDreamer	you cannot use _that_ module in another module that also super's the same method	20:26
+perlDreamer	so, for example, I just setup indexContent in all modules with override/super	20:26
+perlDreamer	and now, almost no module will compile, throwing this error: Couldn't load class (WebGUI::Definition::Role::Asset) because: Couldn't load class (WebGUI::Definition::Role::Object) because: You cannot override 'indexContent' because it has no super method at /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.0/Moose/Meta/Class.pm line 315	20:27
+perlDreamer	the bummer is that using override/super saves you some boilerplate code compared to around/orig/self	20:28
@Haarg	can you paste the changes you made that led to that error?	20:29
+perlDreamer	sure, although I did them en masse	20:29
+perlDreamer	and it's mixed in with some spelling typo changes	20:30
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/359164	20:30
@Haarg	weee more code editor bugs	21:02
+perlDreamer	more?	21:04
+perlDreamer	haven't seen any reproducible ones in a while	21:04
@preaction	the "huge file" one	21:10
+perlDreamer	if that's the one in the helpdesk, I couldn't duplicate it	21:14
+perlDreamer	not only that, but the anonymous registration template is not 400 lines long, it's only 35 or so	21:14
+perlDreamer	so I think somebody hit the wrong button in the wrong place	21:14
@preaction	or perhaps its an old version where there were problems? are they on 7.7?	21:15
+perlDreamer	.32, and .33	21:15
+perlDreamer	preaction: if an asset behaves differently based on Asset focus, is that a bug?	21:21
@Haarg	i can't say for certain the thing i'm dealing with is due to the code editor	21:23
@preaction	perlDreamer: Snippet does so explicitly. what's the problem?	21:26
+perlDreamer	Take a Thingy, give it a default thing and set the default view to search	21:27
+perlDreamer	look at the Thingy on a page, and you get a blank search form	21:27
+perlDreamer	look at the Thingy directly, and you get a blank search form, and the results of a search for '*'	21:27
@preaction	that's probably a bug	21:29
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+perlDreamer	In 7.9, it always displays the search results, regardless of the mode	21:40
+perlDreamer	focus	21:40
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* perlDreamer goes for a run		21:52
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@Haarg	patspam, thank you for filter on wgd ls. had to do a mass edit of templates and that made it much easier.	22:27
+patspam	woot	22:27
+patspam	now I only owe you 499 beers instead of 500	22:28
@Haarg	heh	22:28
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CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r8559d7b / Build.PL : move test modules to build_requires - http://bit.ly/9CxgYj	23:04
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * rd30e92d / (3 files in 3 dirs): attempt to load help pod from *DATA to allow for fatpacked style script - http://bit.ly/9aFn9o	23:04
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r5157294 / (43 files in 12 dirs): use __DATA__ instead of __END__ to allow easier pod access - http://bit.ly/dbC5Ka	23:04
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r4cd332f / inc/WGDev/Builder.pm : use fatpack to generate single file dist - http://bit.ly/bEwX39	23:04
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r97421e0 / lib/WGDev/Command/Ls.pm : fix typo in ls command - http://bit.ly/9TxegH	23:04
@Haarg	at one point i wrote up a change to version tag naming to work better with autocommit. another one of those things i probably should have finished.	23:09
@preaction	i'd like to remove the autocommit setting entirely. let the content manager choose if they'd like to save a draft or publish immediately	23:17
* perlDreamer loves autocommit		23:18
+perlDreamer	you can't get rid of it!	23:18
@preaction	instead of clicking Save you'd click Publish, that would autocommit. but you'd have the option to click Save and create a version tag	23:19
@preaction	right now its either On or Off, you don't have a choice	23:19
@Haarg	unless you enable the save and commit button	23:20
@preaction	right, but even then if you enable autocommit in the settings, you've basically overridden the conf (save just autocommits, save and commit does too, wait what?)	23:21
+patspam	is the WUC website supposed to send email confirmation that your proposal was received?	23:43
@preaction	i don't know, but that'd be a good RFE (it's a new feature in the EMS)	23:43
+patspam	ah	23:43
@preaction	it probably will if it gets accepted or rejected (it uses the same content approval system as everyting else i think)	23:44
+patspam	perlDreamer and I were discussing the other day that it'd be awesome if there were lightning talk sessions	23:44
+patspam	we just need to source a gong	23:44
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+patspam	I've submitted Lightning Talks as a WUC presentation proposal so that it's in the mix when the powers that be are deciding on the schedule	23:53
+perlDreamer	a gong is good, because if the talk is bad, we can ring it again	23:59
--- Day changed Thu Apr 08 2010
+perlDreamer	and make the talker fall down into a secret trapdoor	00:00
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, any feedback on the override/super indexContent patch?	00:35
@Haarg	seems rather weird that it would break like that	00:36
+perlDreamer	it does	00:39
+perlDreamer	and it's one that we have to fix	00:42
+perlDreamer	since around has the same problem	00:42
@Haarg	ok, that's very odd	00:44
+perlDreamer	the stack trace from Article is a little cleaner	00:47
+perlDreamer	it reminds me of that run-around issue that I had with running perl -wc Asset.pm	00:47
+perlDreamer	instead of using -mModule -wce1	00:47
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra0253fa / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Remove really old code from the old Rss From Parent asset. - http://bit.ly/9kHV7m	00:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r22f1a07 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Remove really old code from the old Rss From Parent asset. - http://bit.ly/d84L0h	00:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf01abc4 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Remove really old code from the old Rss From Parent asset. - http://bit.ly/9lwHKK	00:51
@Haarg	perlDreamer, how are you testing the brokenness, just trying to load the Article class?	00:53
+perlDreamer	perl -mWebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Article -wce1 -I/data/WebGUI/lib	00:54
+perlDreamer	but the Test::Class tests fail, too	00:55
+perlDreamer	here's a patch for around, instead of override: http://gist.github.com/359517	00:56
@Haarg	circular dependancies	00:56
@Haarg	WebGUI::Asset use's other stuff	00:56
@Haarg	which use's WebGUI::Asset::Template	00:56
@Haarg	which tries to do around etc	00:57
@Haarg	but Asset hasn't finished loading yet	00:57
+perlDreamer	do we break the circularness by doing require before the other stuff is used?	00:57
@Haarg	probably by changing use to require for a bunch of stuff in asset	00:58
+perlDreamer	and by asset, you lib/WebGUI/Asset*.pm	00:59
@Haarg	i mean either WebGUI::Asset needs to require instead of use WebGUI::Session	01:00
@Haarg	or WebGUI::Session::Style needs to require instead of use WebGUI::Asset::Template	01:00
@Haarg	and doing the same for any other circular dependancies	01:01
+perlDreamer	this works pretty well for Article: http://gist.github.com/359520	01:01
+perlDreamer	and the CS	01:02
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r953df9d / (3 files): Remove a bunch of circular dependencies, based on using WebGUI::Asset::Template - http://bit.ly/cum3sy	01:04
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc786395 / (13 files in 3 dirs): Moose overriding for indexContent. - http://bit.ly/bR2hoM	01:07
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ree725b0 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm : Moose override for cut (Post only) - http://bit.ly/bF2Jqs	01:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7ba8924 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm : Moose override for paste (Post only) - http://bit.ly/bMbsAJ	01:25
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+perlDreamer	howdy, elnino!	02:02
elnino	hi!	02:02
elnino	any body have any recommendations for home insurance?	02:04
+perlDreamer	we use State Farm	02:08
* perlDreamer is starting to think that purge should just call purgeRevision, one revision at a time		02:34
+perlDreamer	instead of duplicating the revision cleanup code in both places	02:35
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+perlDreamer	elnino, not to hound you, but do you have any comment on my feedback about last two gallery bugs?	02:44
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r616d5cc / (36 files in 6 dirs): Moose overrides for purge, purgeRevision, and purgeCache. - http://bit.ly/9tStAJ	04:31
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd69ed84 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm : Fix the POST purge override call to super. - http://bit.ly/cedR8l	04:31
elnino	perlDreamer, I just commented on one, but I don't know of another gallery rfe?	04:51
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elnino	found the other.	04:55
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+perlDreamer	thanks, elnino_	05:44
elnino_	np	05:45
elnino_	sorry it took me so long. I'm sure there are many others i haven't responded.	05:45
+perlDreamer	no, just the one labeled album title	05:45
elnino_	ok. i'll look.	05:47
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11489	05:48
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12472 /translations/RedNeck/RedNeck/ (5 files): Updating RedNeck on translation server	15:12
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+bartjol	mmm, the upgrade to 7.7.33 didn't do much for empty sql query fields in the sqlreport	16:56
+bartjol	I suppose the upgrade story continues, right after the backup	16:56
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+patspam	morning	16:59
+bartjol	morning	17:02
+patspam	all of a sudden the weather is hot here in ny	17:03
+bartjol	we have nice weather too	17:04
+MrHairgrease	yay for nice weather!	17:05
+bartjol	boo for long backups	17:07
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+bartjol	whoohoo, it is compressing	17:37
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elnino_	good morning!	17:39
+MrHairgrease	Greasings!	17:39
elnino_	when I deploy a package, then make changes to the original (add files/delete files/etc) and repackage it and redloy it,	17:39
elnino_	it's supposed to update right?	17:39
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+bartjol	elnino_: I'm not completely sure about that, it might also be that the url's are "protected" and the next deployment is put next to the old one	17:55
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+perlDreamer	is it safe to run myisamchk on a live database?	18:07
+MrHairgrease	dunno	18:07
+patspam	perlDreamer: ask Socrates- or SynQ	18:10
+bartjol	both not really present I think	18:11
+perlDreamer	the manpage says "take a backup first", so I'm guessing that it is sort of okay	18:11
+patspam	given that it's mysql.. I'd be cautious	18:11
+bartjol	a foresighted man counts as two	18:13
* patspam is excited about the Paris-Roubaix this sunday		18:14
+perlDreamer	bartjol, what is the threshold for including a language with the core?	18:14
+perlDreamer	isn't it 95%?	18:14
+bartjol	oh, well, we talked about that	18:15
+bartjol	and there isn't a definite answer I believe	18:15
+bartjol	the 3 complete language have been put in	18:16
+bartjol	is redneck also complete? I saw a commit	18:16
+perlDreamer	no, just 1 commit	18:19
+perlDreamer	I hope the fellow from Sweden takes on the grueling task of translating WebGUi	18:19
+MrHairgrease	taking it on is the easy part	18:20
+MrHairgrease	surving it with you mind still intact not so much	18:21
+perlDreamer	I think this wiki page needs some updating: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/translating-webgui	18:21
+perlDreamer	hopefully bartjol, KlausH and SquOnk have rounded off enough corners that newcomers can come out only partially damaged	18:25
+bartjol	MrHairgrease: do you have any comments about the intactness of my mind?	18:25
+MrHairgrease	none that you can understand	18:26
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elnino_	bartjol, oh that would be bad.	18:34
+perlDreamer	bartjol, are you going to let him talk to you that way?	18:34
+bartjol	aah	18:35
+perlDreamer	if I were you, I'd go over to his house, drink his beer and start remodeling his house	18:35
+bartjol	voices!	18:35
elnino_	about the packaging... that is, I have no idea what you guys are talking about.	18:36
+bartjol	well, I never tried it, neither read the code	18:36
+bartjol	so don't put too much value in that statement, I can only see that that would be another option	18:36
+bartjol	eeeh, remodelling martin's house... but marijn will be mad	18:40
+perlDreamer	eh, drink her beer, too.	18:40
+perlDreamer	if she can't keep him under control, she'll have to deal with the consequences	18:40
+bartjol	but colin, I just opened the door, so he could kick it in	18:42
* perlDreamer goes to the gym and ponders additional ways of affecting WebGUI's performance		18:44
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ckotil	webgui uses MyISAM as the default mysql engine, correct?	20:21
+perlDreamer	yes, ckotil	20:22
ckotil	k. im gonna once and for all get all these InnoDB tables out of here. bc it causes me soo many headaches during upgrades.	20:22
ckotil	i must have had the default engine in my.cnf set to innodb when i was running from source before going to the wre	20:23
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I didn't realize how fragile the loading process was.	20:28
+perlDreamer	Using Moose has made this a big problem	20:28
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@Haarg	yeah, the way we've been handling it can be very problematic	20:29
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+perlDreamer	I've spent the last 2 hours debugging stuff just related to Asset.pm	20:30
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+patspam	so how are you supposed to enable a language after installing it? just change a user's language preference?	20:53
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+patspam	never mind	21:04
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+patspam	can I send someone a tgz of a new webgui language?	21:48
+patspam	webgui.svn.org doesn't like me	21:48
+patspam	er	21:48
+patspam	svn.webgui.org neither	21:48
+patspam	i18n.webgui.org doesn't have an "import .tgz" button	21:51
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+perlDreamer	sure, patspam	21:53
+perlDreamer	I can set that up for you	21:53
+patspam	ta :)	21:53
+patspam	email on the way	21:55
* patspam wanders off to get lunch		21:57
+perlDreamer	good idea	21:58
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CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * rfe2b817 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Search/Index.pm): add 11477: Don't fill in a default synopsis - http://bit.ly/bqcx74	22:42
+perlDreamer	preaction, do we need an upgrade sub to clear out existing default synopses, or a note that people should reindex their site in the gotchas, or anything like that?	22:54
@preaction	good question	22:56
@preaction	i'll write an upgrade sub to reindex the site	22:58
ckotil	im working through the 7.7.18-7.7.19 upgrade, and in the removeOrphanedVersionTags it fails, but doesnt tell you the bad version tags. I think i have a query that would help with that.	22:58
+perlDreamer	hm	22:59
+perlDreamer	we aren't releasing any new 7.7's	22:59
+perlDreamer	but we could always do a community release	22:59
ckotil	i searched the forums for anyone else seeing this problem. but coudlnt find any posts	22:59
+perlDreamer	ckotil: I guess you're just lucky? :/	23:04
ckotil	:)	23:04
ckotil	and the upgrade proceeds. :)	23:10
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * r8a9fc6c / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.9.2-7.9.3.pl : reindex the site to clear default synopsis - http://bit.ly/9mqbdh	23:10
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12473 /translations/ (200 files in 3 dirs): Updating Australian on translation server	23:11
ckotil	http://www.pastebin.org/141866 if your interested in the query	23:15
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+perlDreamer	Haarg: by what process are old translation files removed from the translation server?	23:17
@Haarg	no idea	23:18
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+perlDreamer	I guess that would mean "manually" :)	23:19
--- Log opened Fri Apr 09 12:06:43 2010
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--- Log opened Fri Apr 09 17:43:29 2010
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+patspam	bartjol: it's not my fault australian is similar to american =p	17:53
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+bartjol	but there are definitely missing australian words	17:54
+patspam	heh yeah I like the s/friends/mates/	17:54
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+patspam	I'll work that in	17:54
+bartjol	ok	17:56
+bartjol	You just want to join the l33t group of trnsaltors	17:56
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CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r4519f55 / docs/gotcha.txt : fixed gotchas to remove memcached - http://bit.ly/aQP1mQ	18:58
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rb6b5e6c / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm : fix deep recursion on getContentLastModified - http://bit.ly/ciujBq	19:13
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@Haarg	morning perlDreamer	19:23
+perlDreamer	morning, Haarg	19:23
+perlDreamer	patspam, I need a resend of your email of this morning, please	19:24
+patspam	oh?	19:24
+perlDreamer	it was nested in between a bunch of spam, and it was accidently deleted	19:26
+patspam	heh your spam filter detects australian content as spam?	19:27
+perlDreamer	no, it was collateral spammage	19:28
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+perlDreamer	perhaps later today I'll whip up a Test::Deep script that tells me just how Australian your translation really is	19:31
+patspam	the output will be: crikey!	19:33
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+perlDreamer	to be precise, "Crikey! This translation is chock-a-block full of little beauties!"	19:49
+patspam	I was disappointed at the limited scope for dropping in slang, we need more colourful i18n source messages	19:53
+patspam	things like: "your submission has been accepted, isn't that fantastic?"	19:54
+patspam	so that we can translate: "yep, got it, bloody ripper!"	19:54
+perlDreamer	patspam: MySQL to MongoDB migration notes: http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/04/mongodb-experts-model-the-move.html	19:55
+perlDreamer	you can always build a custom translation full of slang	19:55
+perlDreamer	like RedNeck	19:56
+patspam	yeah Andy Oram was at the NoSQL Live conference in boston a few weeks back	19:56
+perlDreamer	patspam, updated translation installed	20:10
+perlDreamer	it could use an SVN commit through the interface to update it	20:10
+patspam	would it be easy for me to get svn access to I don't have to keep bothering you	20:12
+patspam	?	20:12
+perlDreamer	1) it's no bother	20:14
+perlDreamer	2) you'd have to ask those in charge	20:14
* perlDreamer only pawn... in game of life		20:15
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0c00308 / (3 files): Moose overrides in Event, File, Post - http://bit.ly/9zp3yt	20:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc35f3b9 / (6 files): Moose subclassing for Asset/*.pm. - http://bit.ly/b04Ccq	20:31
+patspam	in that case..	20:34
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd3a3c4d / (4 files in 2 dirs): Moose subclassing for Asset/File/* - http://bit.ly/bf9lYt	20:36
+perlDreamer	Haarg, preaction, with that last commit, the phrase SUPER has been eliminated from all Assets with the following exceptions:	20:37
+perlDreamer	1) the email y'all haven't responded to yet	20:37
+perlDreamer	2) odd cases when you're calling SUPER::someMethod from someOtherMethod	20:37
+perlDreamer	I'll wait 'til Monday on (1) then I'm going to implement it	20:38
+perlDreamer	on (2), I think I can convert some existing tests to verify how it will work	20:38
@Haarg	patspam, the only issue with giving svn access to translations is i don't remember how the translation server deals with that	20:38
@Haarg	more specifically, i don't think it does, and that can be problematic.	20:39
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, translationServer.cgi, line 431	20:40
@Haarg	well, that's something i guess	20:41
+perlDreamer	I don't know how it handles conflict resolution, but I remember thinking we made the translation server the canonical reference, so that conflicts were dropped in its favor	20:42
@Haarg	yeah	20:43
@Haarg	still less than ideal because it doesn't see the changes until someone tries to change something	20:43
+perlDreamer	definitely	20:44
+perlDreamer	the other thing I remember is that we'd decided to freeze the CGI until two things happened	20:44
+perlDreamer	- we could move it to git	20:44
+perlDreamer	- it was integrated as an Asset to give people karma for translating	20:44
@Haarg	yeah	20:45
@Haarg	moving it to git will most likely be much easier in webgui 8	20:46
@Haarg	well, moving it to git will be much easier if i can use moose	20:46
+perlDreamer	why?	20:47
@Haarg	http://search.cpan.org/~bobtfish/Git-PurePerl-0.46/lib/Git/PurePerl.pm	20:47
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r943ae9f / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Only delete a group if it exists. - http://bit.ly/d8hF6i	21:19
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4210d06 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Removed unneeded use module line. - http://bit.ly/aWsRke	21:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5399eb2 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataTable.pm : Use the right i18n namespace for DataTable's assetName - http://bit.ly/b6XFKb	21:46
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf36a30f / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Refactor out code to build an asset with a real parent. Add purge tests. - http://bit.ly/9ScPkO	21:47
* perlDreamer goes running		22:03
+patspam	frogwith: ping	22:44
+patspam	er	22:44
+patspam	fordwith: ping	22:44
+patspam	damnit!	22:44
+patspam	can't type	22:44
@frodwith	pastapm: wut	22:44
+patspam	you've been playing with plack?	22:46
@frodwith	nodnod	22:46
+patspam	have you looked at the psgi branch recently?	22:46
+patspam	I've been hacking on it quite a lot this week	22:46
@frodwith	not this week, I haven't	22:47
@frodwith	what've you been up to in there?	22:47
+patspam	the foundation is mostly in place now	22:47
+patspam	yesterday I put in some middleware that opens/closes the session	22:48
+patspam	so that all wG middleware and the wG app itself can just use it throughout the request cycle	22:48
@frodwith	http://search.cpan.org/~frodwith/WebGUI-PSGI-0.2/lib/WebGUI/URL/PSGI.pm	22:48
@frodwith	have you looked at this at all?	22:48
@frodwith	there's some session mddielware in there	22:48
@frodwith	*middleware, too.	22:49
@frodwith	in that dist, anywho	22:49
+patspam	yeah, I saw WebGUI::PSGI::Middleware::Session	22:49
+patspam	I've gotten the basic architecture roughly how I like it (http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/blob/psgi/README)	22:50
+patspam	the next phase is working through the cascading effect on the rest of wG	22:51
+patspam	TODO is at:	22:51
+patspam	http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/blob/psgi/TODO	22:51
@frodwith	this is a wg8 branch?	22:52
+patspam	yep	22:52
+patspam	benchmarks are good too	22:52
+patspam	compared to WebGUI8 anyway ;)	22:52
+patspam	getting close to parity	22:52
+patspam	WebGUI8 is 30 req/s whereas the psgi branch is 23 req/s	22:53
@frodwith	nods	22:53
@frodwith	have you profiled at all?	22:53
+patspam	yeah	22:53
+patspam	really easy to NYTProf it now that there's no more modperl	22:53
@frodwith	curses at modperl	22:54
+patspam	the promising thing is that if you insert a static contentHandler so that only the scaffolding is doing any work, it's actually about 20% faster than WebGUI8	22:54
+patspam	anyway, I could really do with other people hacking on it and adding new ideas	22:55
@frodwith	if you what now?	22:55
@frodwith	this is the part where you convince preaction that I should be paid to hack on this :-p	22:56
* patspam does a jedi wave in front of preaction's face		22:56
@frodwith	running things under a plack server pays dividends in terms of development time alone	22:58
@frodwith	easier to profile, non-buggy changes without restarting the server, other things I'm sure	22:58
+patspam	yeah, perlDreamer is going to have a field day with Plack::Test	22:58
+patspam	I'm most excited about the new deployment options	22:59
@frodwith	have you been following miyagawa's cloud thing? sunaba, is it?	22:59
+patspam	yeah, insane	23:00
+patspam	I guess the biggest props go to dankogai for implementing the sandbox	23:00
@frodwith	ah. I just got a general idea from miyagawa's tweets, haven't look at the implementation or anything	23:01
@frodwith	but running psgi apps in the cloud = awesome.	23:02
+patspam	yeah, I have extreme heroku envy so it's a welcome development	23:03
@Haarg	preaction, do you have any problem with me making WebGUI::SQL a DBI subclass?	23:12
clifmo	should i have apache & mysql installed before installing with wre?	23:25
+patspam	http://www.flickr.com/photos/patspam/4505694655/sizes/o/in/set-72157623692891097/	23:48
@frodwith	>:^)	23:49
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+perlDreamer	clifmo, the WRE will provide apache and mysql for you	00:24
+perlDreamer	you do not need to have it installed	00:24
+perlDreamer	in fact, if mysql is already installed, it can interfere with the WRE	00:24
+perlDreamer	but there are instructions in the wiki on how to handle that	00:24
+perlDreamer	patspam: you're installed again	00:26
+patspam	perlDreamer++	00:28
+patspam	wooh, back to 100%	00:28
+perlDreamer	what's Plack::Test?	00:28
+patspam	http://advent.plackperl.org/2009/12/day-13-use-placktest-to-test-your-application.html	00:30
+perlDreamer	nice	00:32
+perlDreamer	sounds like we could drop WebGUI::PseudoRequest	00:32
+patspam	off a cliff	00:34
+perlDreamer	are you hating on my faux test module?	00:34
+patspam	hehe no	00:35
+perlDreamer	WebGUI8's new assets aren't looking that bad so far	00:56
+perlDreamer	there is some hangup with purging Wiki related assets	00:56
+perlDreamer	...and then I ran the paste test	01:01
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r69904f6 / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Tests for cut. Total of 3081 tests so far. - http://bit.ly/axgGaL	01:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4895b14 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : hm, actually need that WebGUI::Asset::Shortcut thing - http://bit.ly/daYyM2	01:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * racded27 / lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm : Pass myself along as the asset to check for valid parentage. - http://bit.ly/bCrYqW	01:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8e946aa / lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/GalleryFile.pm : Fix a typo in getCurrentRevisionDate. - http://bit.ly/dnI1FX	01:13
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra598c13 / lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm : Do not pass myself off as a parent. - http://bit.ly/de1nug	01:22
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra79f813 / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Add tests for paste. Be sure to setup session->asset for canPaste tests. - http://bit.ly/9ZwOrO	01:22
+perlDreamer	have a good weekend everyone!	01:23
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CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * rf22020c / (7 files in 5 dirs):	01:44
CIA-104	webgui: Turned on Debug middleware	01:44
CIA-104	webgui: Removed unnecessary $session->close() now that we have WebGUI::Middleware::Session	01:44
CIA-104	webgui: Fixed Content-Type bug - http://bit.ly/ccUkvt	01:44
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r2bac95f / (TODO app.psgi lib/WebGUI/Session/ErrorHandler.pm): Mostly decoupled WebGUI from Log4perl - http://bit.ly/d12RlM	01:44
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Mech422	Mech's stupid question of the day - anyone know why this renders with 'no' checked ? :	02:04
Mech422	my $fieldForm = WebGUI::Form::YesNo($session, {	02:05
Mech422	name => "dmn_subscribed",	02:05
Mech422	value => 1, #$var->{'subscribe'},	02:05
Mech422	label => 'subscribed',	02:05
Mech422	});	02:05
@preaction	Mech422: don't do that. use a pastebin.	02:05
Mech422	I've also tried it with defaultValue=>1	02:05
Mech422	preaction: sorry - figured 5 lines was small enough... mea culpa	02:05
Mech422	btw - Image.pm uses -name and -value ?	02:07
@preaction	i don't know what's wrong with the yesno, and i don't know what the question is about Image.pm?	02:08
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Mech422	preaction: I guess the question is - Is Image.pm using the 'wrong' parm names, or are there 2 sets of parms ? ('name', '-name') ? or is one deprecated ?	02:10
@preaction	name and -name are the same, -name is deprecated	02:11
Mech422	ahh cool	02:11
Mech422	on the bright side, the xml comms with iContact work pretty well :-) I thought modperl might get upset about me doing http calls and stuff - but it seems pretty happy	02:14
Mech422	have I just been lucky or is modperl generally considered 'mashup' friendly ?	02:15
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * ra759848 / (3 files in 2 dirs): initial locationbar commit - http://bit.ly/bpX51h	02:15
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ottoshmidt	I am an absolute noob to webgui, installed from debian package manager and now I don't know how to run it	16:28
ottoshmidt	can anyone help?	16:28
ottoshmidt	Radix_, are you here?	16:30
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Getty	can someone here probably help me?	22:01
Getty	aehm with a catalyst i18n problem...	22:02
Getty	i totally dont get it...	22:03
--- Day changed Mon Apr 12 2010
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r716bdae / (7 files in 5 dirs):	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Added exception handling	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Added error doc mapping	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Moved more logic into Session middleware	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Added Credit example to app.psgi	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Made StackTrace and Debug panel automatically turn on when debug mode enabled	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Fixed errorHandler - http://bit.ly/c80Whv	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r42c1a8e / (6 files in 4 dirs): Made $session->log->fatal() message pass through - http://bit.ly/9fwfmt	00:29
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+perlDreamer	preaction: do you want me pester you now or later about Location Bar i18n?	05:58
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r873c07a / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Must return the state of the call to super() in Subscribable's purge. - http://bit.ly/9Ypclk	05:58
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2d4d95a / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Add 1 basic test for canPaste. - http://bit.ly/8Zivih	06:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re8d196c / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Produced assets should be refreshed from the db. - http://bit.ly/auFqtm	06:35
@preaction	perlDreamer: later will be fine, since everyone else is already pestering me about something	06:38
+perlDreamer	okay, preaction, when is a good time for you?	06:41
+perlDreamer	Late next week?	06:41
@preaction	try early next year how about?	06:42
@preaction	or the day after i'm fired for whatever it is i do wrong these days	06:42
+perlDreamer	it's gotta be fixed before wg8 release, otherwise my boss will be very upset	06:42
@preaction	yes, yes he will	06:42
@preaction	but i thought we were revisiting i18n entirely	06:42
+perlDreamer	only from an API standpoint	06:42
+perlDreamer	not from the need to make sure that all labels aren i18n'ed	06:43
@preaction	right, but if the API changes, the way i'd get my i18n values would change	06:43
+perlDreamer	no, you'll still make a call through the JS API	06:43
@preaction	it will be i18n, once i convince TMRFE that i'm actually accomplishing something	06:43
+perlDreamer	I thought you were TMRFE	06:45
@preaction	so did i	06:45
@preaction	spooky noise	06:45
+perlDreamer	well, if you're still employed later, I'll pester you about it	06:49
+perlDreamer	unless I'm not employed either	06:49
* perlDreamer gulps and sweats		06:49
@preaction	that is true, then nobody needs to care about anything! yay!	06:49
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+perlDreamer	Guest61322, you can ask WebGUI questions in this channel, whatever your nick is	08:11
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1593996 / (7 files in 2 dirs): Add better comment rating icons. They still have smiley faces, but they're cleaned and trimmed up. - http://bit.ly/d9M1Il	08:20
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SDuensin	Greetings and stuff.	16:53
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+bartjol	cool stuff?	16:54
SDuensin	Yea, actually. :-)	16:57
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+bartjol	very good	17:16
SDuensin	Just need to get enough coffee in me to deal with SQL today.	17:18
+bartjol	ah, and that is a measure in gallons?	17:21
SDuensin	It may be before this is over. Dredging up old knowledge and trying to make it work again.	17:22
SDuensin	I'm building an app that runs on the web, but I want to have everything needed to test it live in my IDE. So no external web server, no SQL server, etc.	17:25
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+perlDreamer	SDuensin, check out Plack, and Padre	17:59
SDuensin	I don't think they'll do Jack for Java. :-D	17:59
+perlDreamer	dude, if you write it in Java, it's your own fault	18:00
SDuensin	For being productive, it's still my favorite. And with GWT, I use the same language for the entire project - UI and all.	18:00
@preaction	it sounds good on paper, but how does it perform in the Real World?	18:02
SDuensin	Extremely well.	18:02
SDuensin	The new JVMs are FAST.	18:02
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kimd	Hi folks! I would like to get some opinions on RFE #620 (http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/gallery-rotate-photos).	20:40
kimd	Should I add buttons for flipping photos?	20:40
kimd	Does that make sense?	20:41
kimd	Or is 90� clockwise and counterclockwise sufficient?	20:41
@preaction	kimd: however you want. the RFE only specifies the CW and CCW, but if you want flip go for it	20:43
kimd	That is I would be allowed to do that?	20:43
@preaction	yes	20:44
kimd	Ok. I will think about it.	20:44
kimd	preaction, perlDreamer, I have another (testing-related) question.	20:45
+perlDreamer	bring it on!	20:45
kimd	I am using the rotate method provided by WebGUI::Storage	20:45
kimd	There is no testing code yet.	20:45
kimd	I would like to add some.	20:46
+perlDreamer	okay	20:46
kimd	Do I have to test in WebGUI::Storage and WebGUI::File::GalleryFile::Photo?	20:46
+perlDreamer	no	20:46
@preaction	just in the Storage one	20:46
+perlDreamer	yup	20:46
kimd	Actually, testing in WebGUI::File::GalleryFile::Photo would catch any error in WebGUI::Storage as well.	20:47
kimd	The coverage would be better. However, testing would be more indirect.	20:47
+perlDreamer	it should be tested at the source	20:47
+perlDreamer	then you can trust that it works there, and everywhere else	20:47
kimd	Ok. I will do it there then.	20:47
@preaction	and it would only test for Photo, not for Image, or any other random class that uses the rotate() method	20:47
@preaction	that's why you should only test the code in the method, not any related methods (it doesn't matter HOW the job gets done, just that it gets done)	20:48
@preaction	this is so later we can completely refactor that method, not use Storage->rotate(), and the tests will still pass (and Storage->rotate() will still be tested, even though we don't use it in Photo anymore)	20:48
+perlDreamer	was that just an example, or would we really support multiple rotate methods?	20:50
kimd	No. The difference is that in the photo asset rotate will rotate all files in storage and re-create the thumbnail.	20:50
@preaction	that's just an example	20:50
kimd	But it uses the rotate method of the storage for individual files.	20:50
kimd	How would I test the rotate method of the photo asset then?	20:51
kimd	I would have to look at pixels of files as well.	20:51
kimd	Or am I missing something?	20:51
+perlDreamer	no, you're right	20:51
+perlDreamer	because you have to check that it was rotated	20:51
+perlDreamer	rather	20:51
+perlDreamer	that every file in the storage location was rotated	20:52
+perlDreamer	so you check to make sure that Storage->rotate does the right thing	20:52
+perlDreamer	and that Photo->www_rotate also does the right thing	20:52
kimd	Alright. I think I know what to do.	20:52
+perlDreamer	I would upload a rectangular image, and then check the aspect ratio before and after rotating	20:53
kimd	Hey, pearlDreamer! You are genious!	20:54
kimd	That is much easier.	20:54
kimd	However, that doesn't catch the difference between rotating clockwise and counter-clockwise.	20:54
kimd	But both is probably good: checking the aspect ratio and individual pixels.	20:55
+perlDreamer	for that, I would upload a rectangular image that contains a small square in 1 corner	20:57
+perlDreamer	by checking the area around the corner of a rotated image, you can see whether or not it rotated the correct way	20:57
kimd	Done.	20:58
kimd	:-)	20:58
+perlDreamer	I'm not the only genius here, kimd :)	20:59
+perlDreamer	You are really dedicated to working on the Gallery	20:59
kimd	Well, it's my favorite asset (or soon to be).	20:59
kimd	For a community site it is probably one of the most important functions.	20:59
kimd	I want to get people contribute images.	21:00
kimd	At the moment activity is close to zero.	21:00
@preaction	yes, we have had a problem with "bare minimum" lately.	21:01
@preaction	i mean, why use WebGUI's gallery when there's Flickr or Photobucket?	21:01
kimd	That's true.	21:02
kimd	preaction, ever thought about using Flickr or related services as a backend?	21:02
+perlDreamer	preaction, I think that's one of the really big WebGUI problems	21:02
+perlDreamer	Why use WebGUI's gallery when there's Flickr, etc.	21:03
@preaction	we've thought about making import/export from Flickr / Photobucket, but nobody's funded it	21:03
kimd	Users are totally spoiled.	21:03
+perlDreamer	Why use WebGUI's wiki, when there's mediawiki and others	21:03
kimd	That would be also very nice to have.	21:03
+perlDreamer	Why use WebGUI's forums, when there's phpBB, et. al.	21:03
+perlDreamer	WebGUI addresses a small niche market where people want an integrated solution	21:03
kimd	Ideally, there would be a lot more community members implementing RFEs.	21:03
@preaction	i think the bigger problem is that it's not Easy to develop for WebGUI.	21:03
@preaction	that niche market is shrinking, with these hosted sites providing APIs	21:04
kimd	In fact, I would say it is.	21:04
kimd	The initial learning curve is shallow, though.	21:04
kimd	That may in part be because of missing free documentation.	21:04
@preaction	if it were EASY to develop for WebGUI, there could be more time being spent on Application Features instead of bugfixing	21:04
kimd	Good point.	21:05
kimd	Still I think it is not that complicated.	21:05
kimd	I mean, I managed to contribute some code.	21:05
kimd	And I am only a spare time programmer.	21:05
+perlDreamer	I think it's more our programming style	21:05
+perlDreamer	it's often fast, furious, sloppy and not well tested or documented	21:05
kimd	Hm. Maybe, that as well.	21:06
kimd	Still, I would think it is a lack of documentation.	21:06
+perlDreamer	_I_ wrote most of the POD in WebGUI	21:06
kimd	Not talking about POD, perlDreamer.	21:06
kimd	The POD is very good. You have done a great job.	21:07
+perlDreamer	It takes a lot of time to write books, kimd	21:07
kimd	I know.	21:07
@preaction	that's why i want a larger seperation between the Base APIs (Model, Template, Request, User, Group) and the Core Apps / APIs (Shop, Asset, Workflow, LDAP, Auth)	21:07
@preaction	the Base APIs should be under 100% lockdown, tight control, fully tested and documented	21:07
kimd	What we would need is a tutorial on programming.	21:08
@preaction	then the Core apps can be more lenient, using the Base APIs to achieve their goals	21:08
kimd	Essentials on the API including good examples.	21:08
kimd	Something that lowers the initial hurdles for getting started.	21:08
@preaction	i'd like to know Why to use a method, not What the method does	21:08
@preaction	Why is not always apparent, esp. when you're starting out	21:08
kimd	But that's done best by giving examples.	21:09
kimd	Don't you think so, preaction?	21:09
@preaction	eh, i've been reading AS3 examples, and they just do nothing for me. they assume I know other things about the code that I do not know	21:09
kimd	Well, you need to start somewhere.	21:10
+perlDreamer	but different people learn different ways	21:10
+perlDreamer	some people just want an API reference	21:10
kimd	I don't think it will be possible to get people started in a day or two.	21:10
+perlDreamer	some want examples	21:10
kimd	But do we agree that it's mostly about documentation?	21:10
@preaction	no	21:11
kimd	Ok. Features?	21:11
@preaction	the API is all convoluted and messy	21:11
@preaction	version tags are made always, you have to explicitly tell WebGUI to not make one	21:11
kimd	Hm. But are there any better solutions?	21:11
@preaction	yes, ground-up rewrite using Perl Best Practices and Task::Kenshi	21:11
kimd	Isn't the API rather a strength of webgui?	21:11
kimd	I mean existing solutions.	21:11
@preaction	er.. Task::Kensho	21:12
@preaction	I think Django has the start of a right idea API-wise, but they don't have a core set of useful apps. Same with Catalyst	21:12
kimd	Will there a be a ground-up rewrite in WebGUI 8?	21:12
@preaction	Catalyst i think offers too many options to ever coalesce into a core set of useful apps	21:13
kimd	Are Django and Catalyst written in perl?	21:13
@preaction	8 has a set of tasks and features that I was engaged to produce	21:13
@preaction	Catalyst is a Perl Web Framework. Django is a Python Web Framework	21:13
kimd	preaction, is it possible that you are too much of a purist (no offense!).	21:14
kimd	Or are my standards just low.	21:14
kimd	I mean, WebGUI 7 is definitely not perfect.	21:14
kimd	But I always had the impression the API is fairly clean.	21:14
@preaction	no, i want the Perl community to join us. They refuse, because we are not in line with the current set of Perl Best Practices	21:14
kimd	I see.	21:14
kimd	More purists ;-)	21:15
+perlDreamer	kimd, in a way, yes	21:15
+perlDreamer	but standards are good	21:15
@preaction	to be fair, you haven't had to rip the API apart to get what you want done. addArchive() in GalleryAlbum is just one exercise in how the API gets in your way	21:15
kimd	True. I have done only minor changes.	21:15
@preaction	you have to set aside a current tag, if any. prevent the new tag from being committed until you're done adding photos, and finally commit your new tag and replace the old tag	21:15
kimd	I imagine it can become very difficult.	21:15
@preaction	and that's just "add multiple child assets to an existing asset". sounds simple, no?	21:16
kimd	Well, let us hope for a much better WebGUI 8.	21:16
@preaction	there are no fewer than 5 major pitfalls the Random Joe Coder will fall into the first time they try it	21:16
kimd	Very simple.	21:16
@preaction	version tags being only part. parent asset's object cache is another fun one	21:17
kimd	But now you have solved it others can do cut & paste programming.	21:17
kimd	That is how I usually solve problems :-D	21:17
@preaction	requiring cut & paste programming is why RoR is derided as a horrible framework (and it is)	21:17
kimd	Ok. I will no longer argue with you.	21:18
kimd	What is RoR?	21:18
@preaction	Ruby on Rails	21:18
kimd	Ah.	21:18
kimd	Try to find the balance between rewriting the API and adding new features.	21:18
kimd	Otherwise, no one will enjoy your rewrite afterwards.	21:19
@preaction	well, the way i have it, the rewritten API and the existing API will exist side-by-side to allow for gradual migration of custom code	21:19
kimd	Sounds good.	21:20
kimd	I am looking forward to it.	21:20
@preaction	so am i. i haven't had the chance to work on it for months: http://github.com/preaction/modern-webgui	21:21
kimd	Insert less bugs ;-)	21:21
@preaction	that's the plan: everything's tested to start with	21:21
+perlDreamer	to be specific, modern-webgui is not WebGUI 8	21:21
@preaction	yes, modern-webgui is my fancy-pants attempt at rewriting webgui	21:21
@preaction	personal, fancy-pants attempt	21:22
+perlDreamer	it's an attempt to rewrite WebGUI 7 using Moose, DBIx-Class, and other top-class modules	21:22
@preaction	not a PB-sponsored project (and probably never will be)	21:22
+perlDreamer	except for Catalyst	21:22
kimd	But, do you think there will be a community for modern-webgui?	21:22
@preaction	well, we reimplement cat	21:22
@preaction	no, it doesn't exist yet. it's only half-done	21:23
+perlDreamer	I think eventually that modern-webgui will converge with WebGUI 9	21:23
kimd	Good luck with your project anyway.	21:23
@preaction	if i have my way, yes, 9 will converge with this project	21:23
@preaction	with more than a couple fundamental changes (since 8 introduces a lot of stuff I want but don't have in WebGUIx)	21:23
kimd	Enough dreaming. I will focus on RFE #620 again. That's all I can do at the moment.	21:24
kimd	I hope you will migrate to modern-webgui as well ;-)	21:25
kimd	Ah. Preaction, one more thing:	21:27
kimd	Do you know what Helmut Schmidt said about people having visions?	21:27
kimd	(Helmut Schmidt = well-known and admired former Chancellor of Germany)	21:28
@frodwith	People who have a vision should go see a doctor.	21:28
@bopbop	frodwith: you beat me to it!	21:29
@preaction	i'm working on it. gotta move to Madison first. better doctors there	21:29
kimd	Hey, who said that in the States?	21:29
kimd	I wasn't aware Helmut stole it from someone else.	21:30
+perlDreamer	Mathematicians who have visions should go to see doctors	21:31
+perlDreamer	People who have visions should learn how to make them come true	21:31
kimd	Something else: What does this mean "If configured for CDN, add deletion of this storage location to CDN queue."?	21:34
kimd	CDN?	21:35
@preaction	Content Delivery Network (google can tell you more)	21:35
kimd	Hm. I will ignore it for the moment.	21:37
kimd	Time for a glass of red wine. Anyone going to join?	21:37
@preaction	sorry, it's 2:00pm :(	21:38
kimd	preaction, it's never too late :-D	21:39
@preaction	too early you mean?	21:40
kimd	No, that was on purpose. But you totally missed my joke :-(	21:41
@preaction	sorry, been a long day already	21:42
+perlDreamer	and it's not going to get any easier...	21:43
+perlDreamer	we have server moves to do tonight	21:44
@preaction	no, next week	21:44
kimd	Good luck!	21:44
@preaction	i gave two weeks' notice, not just one	21:45
+perlDreamer	cool!	21:45
+perlDreamer	I hate doing server moves with an upset stomach	21:46
kimd	I believe I encountered an error in the testing template.	21:47
+perlDreamer	What is it?	21:47
kimd	It contains a line 'use lib "$FindBin::Bin/lib";' which should actually be 'use lib "$FindBin::Bin/../lib";'	21:48
kimd	Can you confirm?	21:48
+perlDreamer	yes, and no :)	21:48
@preaction	it has to be adjusted for every script	21:48
kimd	Ok. My fault then.	21:48
kimd	Add that to your changes in perfect-webgui.	21:48
@preaction	perhaps a note should go there at least?	21:48
kimd	Very good suggestion indeed.	21:48
+perlDreamer	I think Haarg is working on a way to make it happen	21:48
@preaction	well, the Perfect WebGUI would not require to be placed in /data/WebGUI	21:49
@preaction	and yes, i think that's in haarg's head right now	21:49
@Haarg	kind of	21:49
@Haarg	test scripts will always need to have something like that	21:49
@Haarg	FindBin is a shitty way to do it, but the alternative won't be any shorter	21:49
+perlDreamer	maybe we need something like blib	21:49
+perlDreamer	only called tlib	21:49
@preaction	i thought prove automatically added lib, blib, and t/lib?	21:51
* perlDreamer inserts standard disclaimer about running tests without prove		21:51
+perlDreamer	and in various places in the test hierarchy	21:52
@preaction	well, i use wgd test, which uses App::Prove	21:55
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@Haarg	prove doesn't add anything automatically	22:16
@Haarg	it does have options for adding lib and or blib though	22:17
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@Haarg	a better version of that FindBin construct would probably be http://gist.github.com/363905	22:24
@Haarg	but it's even longer and uglier	22:25
@preaction	eh, it means not having to edit it at all, so maybe...	22:26
@Haarg	well, it still has the same issue we have to deal with now. it's just more 'proper' and doesn't use the shitty FindBin module.	22:31
@Haarg	making something actually search up the directory tree is possible too. i could certainly stick something like that in if you though it was a good idea.	22:32
@preaction	something to make that error go away and never come back: it's not something that someone should have to deal with if they use the skeleton	22:37
@preaction	i mean, kimd is one of our main targets when it comes to community members. if he has a problem, many times it's something we should correct	22:37
@Haarg	http://gist.github.com/363924	22:44
@preaction	yum.	22:52
@preaction	anyone else want a WebGUIx::Runnable like MooseX::Runnable?	22:52
@preaction	where is the setting to make TinyMCE use FileUrl macro instead of Image URLs?	22:53
@preaction	ahh. richEditorsUseAssetUrls	22:53
@preaction	why is that set to 1 by default? wtf	22:53
@Haarg	why not?	22:57
@Haarg	set to 0 by default means people's sites randomly break somewhere down the line for no apparent reason	22:57
@preaction	ah. fun.	22:58
@preaction	why don't we do something smart like use the FileURL macro instead?	22:58
@Haarg	because that would have to be filtered out on save, or the rich editor wouldn't be able to display the images inline	22:59
@preaction	yay.	22:59
@preaction	just. yay.	22:59
@preaction	if we were using a different rich editor, we might be able to post-filter macros and have WebGUI execute them and give us the content	23:00
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kimd	Sorry for interrupting. Anyone ever tried to access pixels directly with PerlMagick?	23:03
@preaction	no interruption: just ask / say whatever you need whenever you need	23:04
kimd	I tried "$image->GetAuthenticPixels( {x=>0, y=>0} )"	23:04
@preaction	there's usually three or four threads of conversation at any given time	23:04
@preaction	but no, i've never tried to get the color value of a certain pixel	23:04
kimd	But that results in Can't locate auto/Image/Magick/GetVirtualP.al in @INC (@INC contains: /data/WebGUI_kimd/t/Storage/../lib /data/WebGUI/lib /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.10.0/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.10.0 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.0/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.0 . /data/WebGUI_kimd/lib) at Rotate.pm line 55	23:04
kimd	According to documentation the method name should be correct (check http://www.imagemagick.org/script/perl-magick.php).	23:05
kimd	Unfortunately, there is no example code.	23:05
@preaction	kimd: how about trying the GetPixel method instead?	23:07
@preaction	it's part of the top bit, different from the bottom bit. it looks like the bottom bit might not work on your system (or maybe anybody's system)	23:08
kimd	At least it doesn't produce an error upon compile time.	23:09
kimd	Let's see how far I can get with getPixel. Thanks for the hint.	23:09
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+perlDreamer	kimd, I think I do some work like that in the making a thumbnail checking code	23:37
kimd	I will check. Thanks.	23:38
+perlDreamer	Macro/Thumbnail.t	23:38
+perlDreamer	I used ->GetPixels	23:38
kimd	Now that mention it I got it to work.	23:38
kimd	Again you inspire me :-)	23:38
kimd	that you mention	23:38
+perlDreamer	Haarg, preaction, http://gist.github.com/363924 <== that's the tlib thing I was talking about	23:39
kimd	perlDreamer, you have that aura around you.	23:39
+perlDreamer	unfortunately, now you have to find tlib	23:39
kimd	Cool. Test test for WebGUI::Storage::rotate seems to work.	23:44
+perlDreamer	kimd, I hope that aura isn't the fact that I went running, and need a shower :/	23:44
kimd	The test..	23:44
kimd	Odor function is turned off on my computer at the moment.	23:45
kimd	I will enable an override that changes it to the smell of roses.	23:45
kimd	Acceptable?	23:45
kimd	Good night everyone!	23:47
kimd	perlDreamer, enjoy your shower.	23:48
+perlDreamer	thanks, man :)	23:48
kimd	And thanks to everyone for helping me.	23:48
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--- Day changed Tue Apr 13 2010
@preaction	WTF of the day: 2010/04/12 -- Reimplementing join() http://gist.github.com/364000	00:11
@Haarg	D:	00:12
@preaction	and now for some happy reason modperl refuses to restart	00:17
@Haarg	'happy'	00:17
@preaction	it has to be a happy reason, because i am not.	00:18
@preaction	fine. kill dash nine it is.	00:21
@preaction	i should make a hip-hop group called the kill dash nine.	00:21
@preaction	wtf. i kill -9 and the site is STILL UP?	00:22
@preaction	ah, i didn't salt the earth afterward...	00:27
@preaction	ah. i see. orbital ion cannon. can't merely salt the earth or nuke it from orbit. need to lay waste to the planet.	00:30
@preaction	i love having to reboot a system to load new WebGUI code.	00:30
@Haarg	'happy' indeed	00:35
@preaction	reboot didn't work: it's an old WRE, so if you kill -9 you have to remove the .pid lockfile or else apache will sit and spin until it's removed.	00:35
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@preaction	which, imho, if the process identified by the pid (a) does not exist and (b) is not the same program, the pid should be considered wrong and deleted OR the logfile should be notified "httpd is already running or delete the httpd.pid file"	00:38
@preaction	anyone happen to know how i can adjust a recurring transaction to point to a different user?	00:55
@preaction	or do i have to edit the database?	00:56
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SquOnk	Greetings!	00:57
@preaction	evening	00:58
SquOnk	I think I'm going to make it to the WUC	00:58
@preaction	awesome	00:58
SquOnk	My visa appointment is for aug 2nd (my b'day)	00:58
SquOnk	I wanted to submit a talk, but I rather wait until I'm sure :-)	00:59
SquOnk	I'm writing a Macro to "turn into e-book"	00:59
SquOnk	As in MOBI file for Kindle and similar toys.	00:59
SquOnk	Non-DRM e-book :-)	01:00
SquOnk	preaction: But my REAL mission is getting DBIx::Class and PostgreSQL support <g>	01:00
@preaction	i've got DBIx::Class started (7-style, but 8 isn't too much of a stretch)	01:01
@preaction	well, i say started, but that part of it works just fine	01:01
@preaction	it's the UI stuff i worked on that doesn't	01:01
+perlDreamer	preaction, you have to edit the db	01:04
+perlDreamer	no way to reassign anything in transactions	01:04
@preaction	yeah, i've been poking around to see how the whole thing's tied together	01:04
+perlDreamer	Haarg, any objection to me turning your gist snippet into the world's worst CPAN module?	01:05
+perlDreamer	I promise not to mention your name in it	01:05
@Haarg	fine with me	01:06
@preaction	there are worse ones :p	01:06
@Haarg	although you'll want to use caller(1)[1] instead of __FILE__	01:06
@preaction	though maybe ask #perl if they know of an existing implementation?	01:06
@Haarg	and technically that snippet isn't specific to tests at all	01:07
+perlDreamer	true	01:09
@Haarg	it might make sense for it to work like the blib module instead	01:10
@Haarg	searching upward for a 't' directory then adding t/lib	01:10
@Haarg	i don't know	01:10
+perlDreamer	if I'm going to call it tlib, then definitely, Haarg	01:34
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * reb97a8d / (t/SQL.t t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm): allow arbitrary subs to be added to test cleanup - http://bit.ly/94816s	01:44
@Haarg	perlDreamer, would this be useful? http://gist.github.com/364095	01:51
+perlDreamer	definitely, Haarg	01:54
+perlDreamer	for a second I thought you pulled out the sub stuff in favor of the SQL, but I see it's in addition to	01:55
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r88e8fe7 / (t/SQL.t t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm): allow SQL statements to be added to test cleanup - http://bit.ly/cYnHyP	01:57
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * r0923789 / (t/SQL.t t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm): allow arbitrary subs to be added to test cleanup - http://bit.ly/bIpiS1	01:58
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * r547f914 / (t/SQL.t t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm): allow SQL statements to be added to test cleanup - http://bit.ly/9warNH	01:58
+perlDreamer	how is the 7->8 merge coming?	01:58
@Haarg	haven't worked on it for a while	01:58
@Haarg	but i had up to 7.8.10 merged	01:59
@Haarg	it's becoming more and more of a problem though so i really need to get it done	01:59
@preaction	eh, i'm not on the hook for 7->8 merge. i'm on the hook for releasable/testable 8	02:00
@preaction	MY PROBLEMS BECOME YOUR PROBLEMS, I AM MANAGER HEAR ME WHIMPER	02:00
+perlDreamer	we either do it now, or later, dudely-sir-type-persion	02:02
@preaction	i'd prefer later. we've got everyone working on tasks that require everyone else's tasks to be done	02:03
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CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop webgui-8.0-merge * r531bf55 / (858 files in 244 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into WebGUI8 - http://bit.ly/cMupuR	15:56
xdanger	preaction: Just read your blog post and was wondering that doesn't using /uploads urls directly (withour FileUrl macro) break the versioning of the File assets? Doesn't every revision get a new storageId and a new /uploads url?	16:27
+bartjol	xdanger: if you use the fileurl macro that shouldn't happen	16:29
xdanger	I know	16:29
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xdanger	but the richtexteditor doesn't use it	16:29
+bartjol	wait, I'll have a better look at doug's post	16:29
+bartjol	aah, well, we might consider that buggy	16:30
SDuensin	Welcome to Tuesday.	16:31
+bartjol	buggy tuesday?	16:31
SDuensin	Not here! (For once!)	16:31
+bartjol	wat isn't, can still come	16:32
xdanger	couldn't the tinyMCE be modfied to include the fileUrl macro if "richEditorsUseAssetUrls" : 1 if set	16:33
xdanger	s/if set/is set/	16:33
+bartjol	I suppose so	16:33
+bartjol	not sure how much trouble that is	16:33
xdanger	Or has this been done in newer versions, I'm runnign 7.6 still	16:33
+bartjol	I'm at 7.9.2, let me have a look	16:34
+bartjol	nope	16:37
xdanger	the link to asset tree adds ^/(url);	16:37
xdanger	that do breaks if someone changes the url	16:37
xdanger	it should be something like ^/(^Asset(url,assetId);); imho...	16:38
+bartjol	and the option which turns off asset url's does insert direct paths, so you are absolutely right	16:40
xdanger	but if you use ^FileUrl in tinyMCE the picture doesn't show in the editor, because the macro isn't being executed	16:44
+bartjol	ah, no, that won't happen, choices choices	16:45
xdanger	I was thinking that we should build a better frontside proxy for webgui, one that does internal redirects and caches them. Using something like varnish. That would be great	16:45
xdanger	Of cource inteligent frontside proxy breaks passive logging among other things	16:46
xdanger	but could be made to work =)	16:47
+bartjol	mmm, that utility script might be one of the better solutions. On saving an asset, the script is executed in that workflow	16:49
+bartjol	but maybe not	16:50
+bartjol	second time editing will get confusing	16:50
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@preaction	xdanger: as haarg pointed out to me, the FileUrl macro breaks the display in the TinyMCE. so we'd need a custom tinymce module	17:26
@preaction	there are two things to do: make that module, make it so files only create new uploads locations when a new file is uploaded (and only delete when nobody's using it anymore)	17:26
@steveo_aa	I'd like to discuss WebGUI cache control, specificaly the document meta tag control.	17:27
@steveo_aa	In core Cache-Control is set to content="no-cache" which only works part-time on browsers.	17:28
@steveo_aa	I'd suggest that content="no-store" for more widely recognized control.	17:28
@steveo_aa	Or some method for the style system to select which it desires.	17:30
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym		19:17
* perlDreamer wobbles back to the chair, and sinks into it gratefully		20:41
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7390497 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Change how the locked flag is displayed, so that it isn't inline with the content, but just above it. Fixes bug #11520 - http://bit.ly/d6PwDR	20:56
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r55ceb57 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add missing template help for the WikiPage view template. - http://bit.ly/avA9SG	20:56
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r640adde / (2 files in 2 dirs): Change how the locked flag is displayed, so that it isn't inline with the content, but just above it. Fixes bug #11520 - http://bit.ly/caIonA	20:58
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r42c6714 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add missing template help for the WikiPage view template. - http://bit.ly/blb87d	20:58
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1395fcc / (5 files in 5 dirs):	21:07
CIA-104	webgui: Add RFE #10944, keyword pages.	21:07
CIA-104	webgui: Keyword pages are any page where the title is exactly the same as any keyword	21:07
CIA-104	webgui: for any page in the wiki. Keyword pages work the same as any wiki page, but	21:07
CIA-104	webgui: also may display a list of pages that are tagged with the keyword. - http://bit.ly/cNul1p	21:07
* patspam is watching the vienna perl qa workshop highlights package		21:15
+patspam	we should totally do a multi-day hackathon like they did	21:15
+patspam	progress stand-up videos are a great idea too	21:18
+perlDreamer	not a bad idea	21:20
+perlDreamer	any idea for flagship projects?	21:20
+patspam	WebGUI::whateverExcitesMe	21:24
+perlDreamer	$patspam->enumerate_excitations; # Padre, Psgi, and other things with capital P	21:27
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7fe8116 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Bug fixes, changes to default wikipage template for keyword pages, and template var clarifications. - http://bit.ly/cdsQ0H	21:29
+patspam	preaction's plans for post-wg8	21:29
@Haarg	my next webgui 8 project (for off hours) is WebGUI::Command	21:31
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Command?	21:31
+perlDreamer	is that like Missile Command?	21:32
@Haarg	basically, WGDev in core	21:32
+patspam	ooooh	21:32
+perlDreamer	I thought there were license incompatibilities?	21:32
@Haarg	there are	21:32
@Haarg	but i can get over those	21:32
@Haarg	taking the existing sbin script and some of the WGDev commands and making them as core modules	21:33
@Haarg	probably build it with App::Cmd instead of what WGDev does	21:33
+patspam	or MooseX::App::Cmd?	21:34
@Haarg	since a lot of extra work WGDev does i already have or will be sticking in core in some fashion	21:34
@Haarg	possibly. i haven't looked extensively at the moose sugar for it.	21:34
+perlDreamer	patspam, would it be easy to repeat your benchmark data for to only compare 1 fetch for each branch?	21:34
+perlDreamer	I think the huge difference is due to caching	21:35
@Haarg	then WGDev will instead be a set of plugins for WebGUI::Command targetted at developers	21:35
@Haarg	since parts of it won't make sense to include in core	21:35
+perlDreamer	like wgd build, dist, release-utilities	21:35
@Haarg	yeah	21:36
+perlDreamer	but wgd db should be standard everywhere	21:36
+patspam	yeah, I want all the wgdev wg-specific extra features available in core	21:36
+perlDreamer	and edit, package, ls	21:36
+perlDreamer	maybe at the hackathon I could try and hack the AssetManager to use a shared menu	21:36
+patspam	perlDreamer: what do you want to compare? master and WebGUI8?	21:36
+perlDreamer	yup	21:36
+perlDreamer	like I said, I'm hoping the 30X speed difference is due to master caching, and WebGUI8 not	21:37
+perlDreamer	if it's really 30X slower, we've missed a major point of WebGUI8, which is performance	21:37
+patspam	or my benchmarks are not only unscientific but also broken	21:38
* perlDreamer thinks too highly of you for that		21:38
@Haarg	there are other things in webgui 8 that could be slowing it down that may be really easy to deal with	21:38
+perlDreamer	meta mutability?	21:39
@Haarg	yeah	21:39
@Haarg	and we could easily do more internal caching of some of that stuff	21:39
@Haarg	or things like ->get may be really slow but easy to fix by having it more lax	21:39
@Haarg	would have to profile it some	21:40
+perlDreamer	I purged most of the get methods out of WebGUI 8	21:40
@Haarg	yeah	21:40
+perlDreamer	which likely contributed to a lot of your merge issues	21:40
@Haarg	yes :)	21:40
* perlDreamer adds a note to send Haarg something baked		21:40
@Haarg	whitespace cleanups were the most annoying bit	21:40
@Haarg	but stuff like %{ $self->get } for template variables is still used	21:40
@Haarg	and that's on display, where we care more about perf	21:41
@Haarg	compared to ->update etc	21:41
+perlDreamer	sure, but there's no easy way around that (yet)	21:41
@Haarg	yeah	21:41
@Haarg	but the built in meta-immutability would help	21:41
+perlDreamer	maybe preaction is close to the Cache::CHI integration	21:42
@Haarg	and the list of things to include in ->get could be computed at immutable time as well	21:42
+perlDreamer	or, TT style objects	21:43
@Haarg	yeah	21:43
@Haarg	although that's a tricky one	21:43
@Haarg	we can't just stick the objects in there	21:43
@Haarg	we would still need to have a list of acceptable methods	21:43
@Haarg	and a proxy object	21:43
+perlDreamer	definitely	21:43
@Haarg	so there are plenty of places to look for perf once we have a handle on how slow it actually is	21:44
@Haarg	and checking in a profiler will go a long way	21:44
+perlDreamer	patspam that with Plack that using Devel::NYTProf is easy	21:44
@Haarg	it's pretty easy with Apache as well	21:44
+patspam	perlDreamer: with caching turned off, master runs at about the same speed as WebGUI8	21:50
+patspam	but I don't know how to turn off caching for WebGUI8	21:50
+patspam	so that's comparing master-no-cache vs. WebGUI-with-cache	21:50
+perlDreamer	I believe that is handled for you, as it seems to be currently broken	21:51
+patspam	heh, it's a feature?	21:51
+perlDreamer	uh...	21:51
+perlDreamer	YES!	21:51
+patspam	ha well that's interesting	21:52
+patspam	if I stop memcached on my server, WebGUI8's benchmarks don't change	21:52
+perlDreamer	that is interesting, I couldn't get much in wg8 to work without memcached being started	21:53
@Haarg	of all of the things i would like to change about webgui, i think not using inline pod is at the top of my list	21:53
+perlDreamer	really?	21:54
+perlDreamer	not higher test coverage?	21:54
+perlDreamer	not different version control?	21:54
+patspam	Haarg: have you tried Dist::Zilla? I'm loving how much boilerplate I can just delete from distros, including POD boilerplate	21:54
@Haarg	i messed with it a bit for wgdev but it annoyed me in a few ways and has just about no documentation	21:55
+patspam	rjbs has been doing a lot of work on it recently for his TPF grant	21:55
@Haarg	yeah, i've been reading the blog posts	21:55
+patspam	documentation is still the last major remaining thing, definitely	21:55
+patspam	but I love deleting all the cruft	21:56
@preaction	Haarg, perlDreamer: I was talking with frodwith quite a bit about how to implement TT as easily as possible. one of the solutions thrown out was a ::Template internal package that could prevent access to any "bad" methods	21:56
@preaction	with the default ::Template package changing all mutators into simple accessors	21:56
@preaction	but there are probably plenty of ways to do so	21:57
+patspam	oh boy!	21:59
+patspam	400 req/sec with WebGUI8!	21:59
+patspam	all I had to do was remove the socket option from cacheServers in the site conf	22:00
@preaction	using Plack's dev server?	22:00
+patspam	no, using WebGUI8 branch	22:00
+patspam	hold your breath, I'll try plack	22:00
@preaction	so WebGUI8 branch and Apache?	22:00
+patspam	yep	22:00
@preaction	nice	22:00
+patspam	e.g. same as master	22:00
+patspam	prior to that I was getting 30 req/sec	22:01
@preaction	i'd like to see how Plack's FastCGI and nginx frontend perform	22:01
@preaction	cacheServers? oh. right. memcached isn't out of there yet.	22:01
+patspam	I was playing with that the other day	22:01
+patspam	took me about 15 minutes to deploy webgui under nginx	22:01
+patspam	and that was because I'd never used nginx before	22:01
@preaction	nice	22:02
@preaction	i'm doing an nginx install right now for a round-robin load balancer	22:02
+perlDreamer	preaction: what's the status on CHI integration for wg8?	22:06
@preaction	nothing. i've got stuff doing, you've got stuff doing, and graham's got stuff doing	22:06
@Haarg	what needs to be done for that? it seems like it should be pretty simple, since the majority of the work has already been done.	22:07
@preaction	just gotta take out WebGUI::Cache, add a cache : { ... } key to the config file, pass that directly to a new CHI object, created and returned by $session->cache	22:07
+perlDreamer	just time and testing?	22:08
@preaction	unless someone can convince me otherwise, i don't want any wrappers around the CHI wrapper	22:08
@preaction	basically	22:08
@Haarg	i don't see any good reason to add a wrapper.	22:09
+perlDreamer	CHI itself _is_ a wrapper around multiple interface, isn't it?	22:09
@preaction	CHI is like DBI for caching	22:09
@Haarg	i'm very close to having WebGUI::SQL be a subclass of DBI too.	22:10
@preaction	which is step one in getting it the frack out	22:10
@Haarg	yeah	22:10
* perlDreamer is going to step out for a bit, and think about how to avoid infinite loops in hierarchial wiki page keywords		22:10
@Haarg	everything is working except the logging	22:10
@Haarg	well, technically that is working too	22:11
@Haarg	but it's a bad solution	22:11
@Haarg	relies on the internals of DBD::mysql	22:11
@preaction	i don't mind bad solutions if they lead to good ones and are well-documented as "DIS BE BAD"	22:12
@Haarg	well, wrapping is probably a better solution	22:12
@Haarg	or we could go with DBIx::Log4perl	22:12
@Haarg	which does the same thing i'm doing but more extensive/configurable	22:13
@preaction	rats, but that keeps us tied to log4perl. which one of these days i'd like to benchmark	22:13
@preaction	eh, if it works it works	22:19
+patspam	psgi branch mostly decouples webgui from log4perl	22:23
@preaction	yay!	22:28
@preaction	patspam: how's that's going btw? any chance of merging in the next 6-8 weeks?	22:30
+patspam	preaction: it could be merged now really	22:57
@preaction	then i guess i'll try it. does testEnvironment.pl have the new deps? does any config file need to be changed?	22:58
+patspam	the main thing left to do is to go through WebGUI::Session::Http and mark everything as deprecated and find equivalent methods in Plack::Request/Response	22:59
@preaction	awesome. awesome to the max	22:59
+patspam	i just started adding tests	22:59
+patspam	using Plack::Test	22:59
+patspam	I should probably do one or two more commits before you merge	22:59
+patspam	there are lots of little design decisions I've made along the way that could easily be changed if people have different ideas	23:00
+patspam	I'm looking forward to merging it in with Haarg's WebGUI::Paths thing too, that would be beneficial	23:01
@preaction	okay. i've got to merge the master->8 merged branch too, so no worries	23:01
+patspam	I've refactored it so that WebGUI::Config is per-app, not per-request	23:02
+patspam	it's really nice to be able to do that.. separate out the per-request and the app-static stuff	23:03
@preaction	indeed	23:04
+patspam	Log4perl is just another middleware	23:05
+patspam	I've moved Session opening/closing into an outer layer middleware too, so that any wg middleware you insert between that outer layer and the wg app itself has the open session at its disposal	23:06
+patspam	and webgui doesn't need to worry about calling $session->close() anywhere	23:06
+patspam	because it gets closed automatically on the way out through the middleware onion layers	23:07
+patspam	there a lots of other little extras too	23:08
+patspam	exceptions get converted into http error codes	23:08
@preaction	yeah, that's how i want Content and URL handlers handled: as middleware, which will happen eventually	23:08
@preaction	i want to decimate the WG codebase	23:08
+patspam	http error codes can be mapped to custom error docs, etc..	23:08
@preaction	nice	23:09
+patspam	url handlers have been decimated	23:09
+patspam	they're really simple to convert to middleware	23:10
+patspam	I enabled Plack::Middleware::Debug a few days ago, that one is really nice	23:11
@preaction	i saw the screens, looks very nice	23:11
+patspam	should be really simple to turn wG's debug output into a plugin for that	23:11
+patspam	much more sexy that appending it to the end of the html doc	23:11
@preaction	indeed. and fewer problems	23:11
+patspam	there will be lots of rough edges, but everything seems solvable at this point	23:12
+patspam	moving cookie handling to middleware looks interesting too, I haven't investigated that yet	23:13
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@Haarg	patspam, how useful is the DBI trace panel in Plack::Middleware::Debug?	23:26
+patspam	to be honest I haven't played with it yet	23:26
+patspam	too many shiny toys, too little time	23:26
@Haarg	i'm just wondering if there is even a reason to have WebGUI::SQL log anything	23:27
+patspam	yeah true!	23:27
@Haarg	sql logging is certainly useful in the inline debug, but i've never wanted to actually log it	23:27
+patspam	I can't wait till we get the psgi branch rolled in and you guys start playing with it, so many low-hanging fruit	23:28
@preaction	right! but you just told me not to :(	23:29
+patspam	hehe	23:29
@Haarg	based on what i've seen though, the output from DBI->trace is of questionable utility	23:29
@Haarg	it has the needed information, but the formatting is not exactly friendly	23:29
+patspam	we could fix that	23:29
@Haarg	preaction, thoughts on that?	23:30
+patspam	currently the plugin just dumps the output of DBI->trace	23:30
@Haarg	do we even want logging information from SQL queries ever or do we only care about it in the inline debug?	23:30
@preaction	looking at it, it sounds like if we could take the Trace level 2 and reformat it into Plack::Middleware::Debug to make it nice	23:30
@Haarg	DBD::mysql tracing is relatively easy to reformat to be friendly	23:31
@Haarg	built in DBI stuff less so	23:31
@preaction	since we're working more closely with the major players in Perl, we're gonna have to start getting dirty with patches	23:31
+patspam	the source for the plugin is here: http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/MIYAGAWA/Plack-Middleware-Debug-0.07/lib/Plack/Middleware/Debug/DBITrace.pm	23:31
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop dbi-subclass * r174d438 / lib/WebGUI/SQL/Trace.pm : skip more classes in DBI tracing - http://bit.ly/93JKnj	23:32
@preaction	looks like we could make our own debug panel if it comes down to it	23:33
@Haarg	http://github.com/haarg/webgui/blob/dbi-subclass/lib/WebGUI/SQL/Trace.pm	23:33
@Haarg	and http://github.com/haarg/webgui/blob/dbi-subclass/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm#L843	23:33
@Haarg	that only works for DBD::mysql though. i haven't really gotten anywhere with just the output from DBI core.	23:34
@Haarg	but the filtering process is relatively straightforward at least	23:35
@preaction	it's just debug info. i mean, if we can squeak out more performance and cleaner code, it's worth it	23:36
@preaction	otherwise, that looks fine for now. we can always remove it in favor of a custom (or future) Plack::M::Debug	23:36
+patspam	preaction: is there a deliberate push to try to integrate more with the perl community?	23:37
@preaction	that's my goal, yes	23:38
+patspam	preaction++ # love it	23:38
@preaction	it's a whole huge group of advocates that so far has remained untapped	23:38
@preaction	(or worse, actively against us)	23:38
+perlDreamer	more like passively against us	23:38
+perlDreamer	won't even look at wG because you have to write SQL and accessors	23:39
+perlDreamer	grrr	23:39
@Haarg	they often don't get that far	23:39
+patspam	when I was at YAPC::EU 2008 most people hadn't even heard of webgui	23:39
@preaction	the knowledge they use in their other, everyday perl does not apply to webgui (except for syntax)	23:40
@Haarg	they see things like WebGUI::SQL and think we've re-invented an ORM when in fact we don't have anything that nice	23:40
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::SQL would be a great name for an ORM	23:40
@preaction	not imho. DBIx::Class is a better name for an ORM	23:40
+perlDreamer	isn't that already taken?	23:43
@preaction	hmm... it IS! why don't we just use that?	23:44
+perlDreamer	the guy in charge of wg8 development won't let us use it yet	23:44
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@preaction	that jerk. the guy in charge of him should let him adjust timelines and priorities to put it in	23:44
* perlDreamer feels the need to iron his hands		23:45
+patspam	well kudos to everyone behind the new direction, it's really awesome	23:45
* mech422 wonders why one would iron their hands ? wrinkles ? too long in the pool ?		23:46
@preaction	we're trying. more to come, provided i can stay in charge	23:46
+perlDreamer	mech422, ask dobby	23:47
mech422	were you a naughty house gnome ?	23:49
--- Day changed Wed Apr 14 2010
+perlDreamer	time to go pick up the kids, back in 30	00:03
+patspam	psgi branch is currently getting 370 req/sec	00:05
+patspam	c.f. 430/sec for WebGUI8 branch	00:06
+patspam	c.f. 430/sec for 7.9 master branch	00:06
@preaction	well, it's good that 8 isn't slower than 7	00:08
+patspam	for the front page at least	00:08
+perlDreamer	-15% isn't too shabby at all	00:33
@preaction	what with the opening for more performance enhancement than ever before?	01:00
@preaction	plus, master has caching. 8 does not (at least, it doesn't work)	01:00
+perlDreamer	not sure, but I'm guessing that the 7.9 numbers are cacheless	01:03
@preaction	hmm... just saw the 5.12 deltas. should we try to target that instead?	01:04
+perlDreamer	no	01:06
@Haarg	patspam: http://gist.github.com/365178	01:19
@Haarg	needs more stuff but seems like a good replacement for the thing we do now	01:20
+patspam	sweet as!	01:20
+patspam	I'm tweaking the logging stuff right now, trying to get it right	01:20
+patspam	that debug plugin will slot in perfectly	01:21
+patspam	I'm using the Log4perl middleware so that people can choose to use something else for logging if they like	01:22
+patspam	but have to still accommodate webgui being called outside a web context	01:22
+patspam	not sure what would be the elegant way to handle that in WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler.. right now I'm getting it to fall-back to Log4perl	01:22
@preaction	that's fine for now	01:28
@preaction	but in the future i don't know if we should put messages in the log when running a utility script or otherwise. it's just another place to have to look when something goes wrong	01:28
+perlDreamer	where else would they go?	01:29
+patspam	yeah, in general this will make use be more clear about the differences between web and non-web contexts	01:29
@preaction	perlDreamer: STDERR	01:29
+patspam	STDERR might be more appr.. yeah	01:29
+perlDreamer	that's not going to make testing more friendly, if there are 1e8 extra logging messages showing up	01:29
+patspam	testing can install its own logger	01:30
@preaction	it would be configurable	01:30
@preaction	or that too	01:30
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elnino_laptop	hi al!	01:41
elnino_laptop	s/al/all	01:41
elnino_laptop	=)	01:41
+perlDreamer	hey, elnino_laptop	01:56
+perlDreamer	should we call you betty?	01:56
elnino_laptop	you know here?	02:01
elnino_laptop	s/here/her?	02:01
elnino_laptop	I think I"m missing the reference.	02:02
elnino_laptop	I"m related to a betty.	02:02
+perlDreamer	Well, I figured if you called us Al, we should call you Betty.	02:04
elnino_laptop	ah	02:04
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r7ef963e / (5 files in 4 dirs): Logging fallback - http://bit.ly/cqwqHc	02:33
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r82ce333 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Added tests for WebGUI PSGI app exceptions - http://bit.ly/cDHi6C	02:33
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * rb1ab828 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Added WebGUI::Middleware::WGAccess for .wgaccess-aware static serving on dev servers - http://bit.ly/cYKE1X	02:33
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@preaction	Haarg: can you think of any reason i shouldn't just delete the webgui-8.0-merge branch?	03:23
@Haarg	as long as it looks fine to stick it in WebGUI8, i see no reason to keep it	03:23
@preaction	the merge with 8 went fine. i didn't run any tests, but i'm not sure at all what works and what don't	03:24
@Haarg	yeah, that's why i was deferring to perlDreamer. i'm not certain what tests to expect failures on.	03:24
@preaction	well, either way we don't need the branch itself anymore now that it's merged	03:25
@Haarg	yeah	03:25
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r531bf55 / (858 files in 244 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into WebGUI8 - http://bit.ly/cMupuR	03:25
@preaction	patspam: i noticed you did one or two more commits, any objections to me merging psgi into mainline 8?	03:28
+patspam	is it ok if it breaks stuff?	03:29
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@preaction	sure, provided other work can continue. you can view an asset i assume?	03:32
@preaction	www_* methods work?	03:32
@preaction	otherwise we could merge 8 into psgi, see how things work, and if everything's good merge psgi back into 8	03:34
@preaction	if that even works	03:34
+patspam	I haven't tested much beyond viewing the front page	03:44
@preaction	ah. then we shall wait for now	03:47
@preaction	but soon... very soon...	03:47
* preaction wrings hands menacingly		03:48
+patspam	haarg: http://www.flickr.com/photos/patspam/4519587704/sizes/l/	03:58
@Haarg	heh	03:59
@Haarg	i'm working on basically the same thing	03:59
+patspam	I stole your gist	03:59
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r2d7c8e6 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Adds Plack::Middleware::Debug::WgLogger - http://bit.ly/997uYo	04:00
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop simple-logging * r6dde072 / (3 files in 3 dirs): remove webgui specific dbi tracing code, simplify errorhandler - http://bit.ly/bPxMpu	04:03
@Haarg	patspam, http://github.com/haarg/webgui/tree/simple-logging	04:03
@Haarg	combination of making WebGUI::SQL a DBI subclass, and adding a logging and MySQL trace middleware	04:04
@Haarg	removes sql from normal logging stuff	04:05
@Haarg	i made the log messages show per severity like the current webgui debug stuff	04:05
@Haarg	but now that i think about it that probably isn't a great idea	04:06
@Haarg	i also submitted a patch to Plack::Middleware::Log4perl to have it increment $caller_depth by one so we only have to care about out own stuff	04:07
@Haarg	one thing i had to do to get the logging working correctly was change how ErrorHandler calculated its logger	04:08
@Haarg	in a rather nasty way	04:08
@Haarg	but otherwise it doesn't pick up on the change to the psgix.logger properly	04:08
@Haarg	given that this moves all the inline debug stuff out of errorhandler, it doesn't make much sense to have the ip/setting checks in there	04:09
@Haarg	and if i move that i may be able to undo the change i made to the logger init	04:10
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r9b4e67b / (lib/WebGUI.pm lib/WebGUI/Session/ErrorHandler.pm): Removed showDebug() in favour of new logger panel - http://bit.ly/9AAYK4	04:17
+patspam	great, you would have seen that I left the $Log::Log4perl::caller_depth munging in ErrorHandler for now	04:23
@Haarg	yeah	04:23
+patspam	but I'd love to get rid of it so that we can decouple completely from Log4perl	04:23
@Haarg	in that simple-logging branch i changed it to use gotos	04:24
@Haarg	so that eliminates the wrapper level for any logger backend	04:24
+patspam	nice	04:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r998a3ce / t/Asset/Asset.t : Update tests to go with the code that I removed from Asset.pm - http://bit.ly/c8HeOj	04:25
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@Haarg	patspam, ping	04:46
@preaction	woohoo! navigation inside the ?op=admin iframe works	04:46
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop simple-logging * r092d9dc / (3 files in 3 dirs): clean up debug logger - http://bit.ly/bzu82r	04:46
@Haarg	preaction, this is what i have in simple-logging right now http://haarg.org/sql-trace.png http://haarg.org/logger.png	05:27
@preaction	looks great! much much much much better than what we used to has	05:28
@Haarg	yeah	05:29
@Haarg	the best part being that the code is much simpler	05:29
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+perlDreamer	ladies and gentlemen, as we prepare for the release of WebGUI 7.8.17, please commit all pending code	06:40
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rf6ee94e / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.8.17 release - http://bit.ly/aLPirQ	06:52
* preaction seat back and tray table are in their full up-right-and-locked position		06:57
elnino_laptop	weeee!	06:58
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elnino_laptop	have fun - bye.	06:59
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+perlDreamer	this is just a little bit of turbulence folks	07:04
@preaction	WE'RE ALL GONNA DIEEEEEEE	07:05
+perlDreamer	the pilot will adjust the number of demosites and the upgrade will proceed apace	07:05
+perlDreamer	thank you all for flying perlDreamer Airlines, flight 815 from Madison to Portland	07:27
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r2190a77 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.18 development. - http://bit.ly/d6K0Gp	07:28
+perlDreamer	we hope that you enjoyed your upgrade, and that you'll choose perlDreamer Airlines for your future WebGUI support and development	07:28
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lingon	Hi	14:12
lingon	Does anybody here know how to handle subdomains / prefix to domains with webgui?	14:13
+bartjol	you want a subdomain with another root?	14:35
+bartjol	or is a redirect to /something ok?	14:35
lingon	good question as somewhat of a beginner I am not entirely sure of the difference	14:37
lingon	my thought was to have something.com and then have multiple other anna.something.com / arne.something.com	14:38
lingon	It would be best if it was not a redirect to something.com/anna	14:39
+bartjol	well, that is a matter of setting apache	14:40
+bartjol	but	14:40
+bartjol	not sure, because mostly in one site you have only one root	14:40
lingon	ok	14:40
+bartjol	so multiple subdomains with references to another URI is not a problem	14:41
+bartjol	but to let them finish at / is another problem	14:41
+bartjol	I have the apache rewrite rules for the first part	14:42
lingon	does ending at / imply multiple roots?	14:42
+bartjol	I'm afraid so	14:42
+bartjol	http://webgui.pastebin.com/pDR2PEsA	14:44
lingon	It sounds like there is a downside to multiple roots. Does it complicate everything a lot?	14:44
+bartjol	the /root/anna can be changed to whatever you want	14:44
+bartjol	I never dived that far into it, but as far as I can see, it complicated matters quite a bit	14:45
+bartjol	mmm, maybe you can setup different multiple hosts in your apache conf	14:47
+bartjol	and with hosts I mean VirtualHost	14:48
lingon	yes, perhaps	14:48
+bartjol	but I never tried something like it	14:49
+bartjol	doubting whether that would work	14:49
+bartjol	because you can send it to othe locations, but you do need the same documenst	14:50
+bartjol	and it gets redirected to modperl anyway	14:51
lingon	what happens if I duplicate the root>home asset and rename it to root>anna?	14:51
+bartjol	root/home has thhe URI /home	14:52
+bartjol	so you would get /anna	14:52
lingon	ok	14:52
+bartjol	maybe it is possible to cover up the /anna bit, but you'll have to read some documentation for that	14:53
lingon	well, reading some documentation has never hurt anyone	14:54
lingon	do you have something perticular in mind?	14:57
+bartjol	this might be a start: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/mod/mod_rewrite.html	14:58
+bartjol	oh, that is 1.2, you'll need 2.x	14:58
+bartjol	http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_rewrite.html	14:59
+bartjol	But I do not assure garanty and you might not get it better than my pastbin post	15:00
lingon	have I understood it corectly if I think that the pastebin post does this:	15:02
lingon	a request for anna.domain.com is serverd by /anna	15:03
+bartjol	serverd?	15:03
lingon	served	15:03
+bartjol	any URL that starts with anna.domain.com is redirected to /anna unless you are already at /anna	15:04
lingon	ok, that was what I was trying to explain :)	15:04
+bartjol	in other words	15:04
lingon	it apparently did not go that well :)	15:05
+bartjol	so I thought you understood corretcly :)	15:05
+bartjol	but wasn't sure by the word served	15:05
+bartjol	it rewrites the request	15:05
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lingon	what will it say in the addressbar of the browser? Will it go to /anna	15:06
lingon	ok	15:06
+bartjol	I think it will show: http://anna.domain.com/anna	15:06
+bartjol	yes, look at http://eelco.gizzing.nl	15:07
+bartjol	it are those rewrite rules	15:07
+bartjol	...	15:07
+bartjol	terrific Dunglish again	15:08
lingon	well that is perhaps reasonable and acceptable if the root part is not included	15:08
lingon	and if the rewrite rules work as on the original site where for example root>home> site map is shown as /site_map	15:10
+bartjol	well that is not a problem, but if you go to anna.domain.com/site_map you might be rewritten to anna.domain.com/anna/site_map	15:11
+bartjol	but with or without www, you are fine	15:12
lingon	ok, I see your point	15:12
lingon	to always have the /anna/ part is to complicate the address for the user a bit to much	15:13
+bartjol	wait, I can test that	15:14
+bartjol	nope, it does not do that	15:15
+bartjol	it depends on your rewite conditions, apparently, I got that right	15:16
+bartjol	but it is a while ago that I wrote those	15:16
lingon	ok	15:17
+bartjol	so I did not remember whether I took notice of that effect at the moment	15:18
lingon	no problem	15:19
lingon	but just so that I have understood correctly. The rewrite conditions and rules should be placed in the domain.modproxy conf file	15:20
lingon	do I have to change anything in my /etc/hosts as well?	15:21
+bartjol	yes, you'll have to modify that conf file	15:22
+bartjol	maybe explicitly mention the other hostnames	15:22
lingon	I had to change the last line in your example. RewriteRule ^(.)$ /root/anna$1 [R=301,L] to RewriteRule ^(.)$ /anna$1 [R=301,L] so that it pointed corectly	15:34
lingon	thank you for your help	15:35
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+bartjol	ah, ok	15:52
+bartjol	very nice	15:52
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lingon	It is a nice and simple solution but .... the more I think about it in general and in terms of scalability and without really knowing the issues a multiple root solution seems better.	16:00
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lingon	it might be hard to convince people that http://anna.domain.com/anna is much better than http://www.domain.com/anna	16:05
+bartjol	well, Idon't know thepeople you're working with :)	16:06
lingon	You know, the usual lot. Those with a lot of opinions and no money.	16:14
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+bartjol	lingon: aah, the "I want it yesterday, for free and more of it"-type	16:39
lingon	yes, something along those general lines	16:40
+bartjol	typical	16:41
+bartjol	we have a customer, SDH consulting, they are like that ;)	16:41
+bartjol	no, patspam is a nice customer	16:42
* patspam ruffles bartjol's hair		16:43
+MrHairgrease	now patspam has to wash his hands...	16:43
+bartjol	nope, just washed it today	16:44
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:50
+MrHairgrease	Greasings!	16:51
+patspam	I'm surprised there isn't an RFE for Inbox attachments	17:06
+MrHairgrease	maybe it wasnt attached	17:07
* SDuensin rushes off to add one!		17:07
+MrHairgrease	har har har	17:07
+patspam	MrHairgrease will be here all week	17:13
+patspam	make sure you buy a drink from the bar	17:13
+MrHairgrease	wher will I be?	17:13
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+MrHairgrease	patspam: okay!	17:13
@Haarg	patspam: in my simple-logging branch, i have Plack::Middleware::Debug::(Logging\|MySQLTrace). they don't really depend on webgui at all so it would probably make sense to make them CPAN modules. ::Logging is basically the same as your ::WgLogger, but removes the hack for the errorhandler. i moved some of the code into Middleware::Session so it isn't needed.	17:17
+patspam	sweet	17:17
+patspam	cpan it!	17:17
@Haarg	also, ::Debug plugins are really just middleware, so they could be named WebGUI:: etc	17:18
@Haarg	they just wouldn't be able to be loaded with the 'panels' param,	17:18
+patspam	yeah	17:18
+patspam	I was planning on patching that so that it uses Plack::Util::load	17:18
+patspam	which allows for '+My::Namespace'	17:18
@Haarg	and my log4perl change is in the latest Plack release	17:19
+patspam	well, it actually does use that already, but it forcibly adds 'Debug::' at the front ;)	17:19
@Haarg	heh	17:19
+patspam	sweeeeeet	17:19
+patspam	the caller depth thing?	17:19
@Haarg	yeah	17:19
+patspam	Haarg++	17:20
@Haarg	so now i just have to fix performance indicators and my simple-logging should be as ready for merge into psgi	17:20
@Haarg	s/ as//	17:20
+patspam	cool, feel free to merge it whenever you're ready	17:21
+patspam	I'm keen to get psgi merged into WebGUI8 as soon as possible	17:22
@Haarg	yeah	17:22
+patspam	how many people are hacking on WebGUI8 atm?	17:22
+patspam	we'll need to give people a heads-up on how to run psgi apps via plackup	17:22
@Haarg	preaction, perlDreamer, you, me	17:22
+patspam	ok, that's a non-issue then ;)	17:23
@Haarg	hmm	17:25
@Haarg	i wonder if it might be good to rip out the current performance indicators and make them into a Debug panel instead	17:25
+patspam	seems reasonable	17:25
@Haarg	it stuffs them inline in the page currently, which helps you see what asset they are related to	17:25
+MrHairgrease	are the performance indicaters actually being used?	17:26
+MrHairgrease	especially now tht we have NYTProf	17:26
@Haarg	it helps you debug on a different level	17:26
+MrHairgrease	but iirc it is some sort of profiler right?	17:26
@Haarg	like to see about navigations that are problematic. and you can turn them on and off without dealing with the server side.	17:26
+MrHairgrease	hmm	17:27
@Haarg	we have two performance profiler things	17:27
+MrHairgrease	yeah that's true	17:27
@Haarg	one of them - the sub level one - is gone	17:27
@Haarg	but for content, the performance indicators are useful	17:27
+MrHairgrease	oh, didn;t know that. I only knew the sub level thing	17:28
+MrHairgrease	I guess I've been out of the loop for too long...	17:28
@Haarg	i think it makes more sense as a debug panel though. it could have links each asset and could even be made sortable or something eventually.	17:29
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ckotil	"Anticipating what could be a very long wait for Perl 6, the Perl 5 developers have overhauled the date functions in 5.12 so that it can handle dates that are further in the future than 2038."	18:14
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+perlDreamer	Perl 6 is like popcorn popping	18:26
+perlDreamer	the last kernel will never pop	18:26
+perlDreamer	but you can still enjoy what's there	18:26
ckotil	nice	18:29
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+perlDreamer	and, since they're backporting tons of it to Perl 5, you can enjoy it now	18:38
+perlDreamer	the smart match operator, the native switch statement (given/when), regexp enhancements, MRO choice/plugins, the "say" statement	18:38
+perlDreamer	those are all influenced by Perl 6	18:38
+perlDreamer	so are things like Moose	18:38
+patspam	perlDreamer: I installed perl 5.12.0 via perlbrew last night to try it out with wg	18:41
+perlDreamer	how did it go?	18:41
+patspam	first I made this cpan package to simplify installing all the dependencies	18:42
+patspam	http://search.cpan.org/~pdonelan/Task-WebGUI-1.101040/lib/Task/WebGUI.pm	18:42
+patspam	(see: http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/PDONELAN/Task-WebGUI-1.101040/dist.ini)	18:42
+patspam	I'm just trying to track down what ubuntu dev packages I need to install to allow PerlMagick to build	18:43
+perlDreamer	is this WebGUI8, or 7.9?	18:44
+patspam	psgi :)	18:44
+perlDreamer	okay, that's a modified, and much desired, WebGUI8	18:45
+patspam	yeah - did you see the new debug panels haarg added last night?	18:46
+perlDreamer	no	18:46
+patspam	http://www.flickr.com/photos/patspam/4519587704/	18:46
+patspam	we're writing plugins for Plack's 'Debug' middleware	18:47
+MrHairgrease	cpan question for you gurus	18:47
+patspam	see also http://www.flickr.com/photos/patspam/4505694655/	18:47
+perlDreamer	I like it!	18:47
+patspam	yeah it's really nice	18:47
+MrHairgrease	how do you determine what version of a dependency you need	18:47
+patspam	only appears when debug mode is on	18:47
+MrHairgrease	eg. in http://github.com/martink/moosex-slaveattribute/blob/master/dist.ini	18:47
+perlDreamer	I don't suppose there's good CLI access for that?	18:47
+MrHairgrease	I now have Moose = 0	18:47
+patspam	and very pluggable	18:48
+MrHairgrease	the debug panel looks nice btw!	18:48
+patspam	MrHairgrease: you're using dzil? yay!	18:48
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease, it's probably best to set that to the version of Moose that you used to develop it	18:48
+MrHairgrease	hmm, yeah well that's the most recent most of the time	18:49
+MrHairgrease	I tend to update a lot	18:49
@Haarg	http://haarg.org/logger.png http://haarg.org/sql-trace.png http://haarg.org/perf-log.png	18:50
+patspam	mmmmm	18:50
+patspam	tasty	18:50
+MrHairgrease	patspam: yeah, I have two cpan things in the works, and I ended up using those to try out new perl stuff	18:51
+MrHairgrease	dzil is one of em	18:51
+perlDreamer	why haven't we done this earlier? patspam, you need to be more outspoken!	18:51
+perlDreamer	either that, or we need to be less resistant to change	18:51
+MrHairgrease	nice!	18:51
@Haarg	with that performance panel, it removes the need for the performance indicators setting. it can just always be on.	18:52
+perlDreamer	Haarg, WebGUI8 merge has what looks like only a few boogers. Probably won't take longer than a few hours to resolve them	18:52
@Haarg	cool	18:53
+perlDreamer	this is what I'm using to run base asset tests now: perl run_asset.t > ran 2>&1	18:53
+perlDreamer	and !?run_ass to do it multiple times	18:53
+perlDreamer	it uses Test::Class to run ~3200 tests like ->new, cut, paste, purge, duplicate, addRev etc	18:55
+perlDreamer	also some parent checks and other things	18:55
+MrHairgrease	ok guys	18:58
+MrHairgrease	I have to abide the bar/beer thing patspam told me to do	18:58
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+perlDreamer	I need to win the lottery and hire Paul Johnson fix Devel::Cover	19:04
+patspam	I think they were doing work on it at the vienna QA hackathon over the weekend?	19:05
+perlDreamer	some, but PCJ's video report on day #2 said that he was just starting to attack the RT queue	19:07
+perlDreamer	and the constant handling in various code statements definitely needs to be approved	19:07
+perlDreamer	improved	19:10
+perlDreamer	Test::Builder 2.x uses Mouse!??!	19:10
+perlDreamer	at some point, they're going to put Mo[ou]se into the core of Perl 5	19:12
+perlDreamer	you heard it here first, folks	19:12
+perlDreamer	patspam, if we do one of these videos, we need to post process the video to add in subtitles with names of people and bullet point summaries of what the person says	19:16
+patspam	that would be awesome.. but aren't we too lazy?	19:17
+perlDreamer	maybe a nice blog posting would do	19:17
+patspam	how much effort do you reckon it'd take to add inbox attachments?	19:18
+patspam	I have a client who might be interested in funding it	19:18
+perlDreamer	hm	19:19
+perlDreamer	at the API level, it should be quite simple	19:20
+perlDreamer	you're just adding a storage location to each inbox message	19:20
+perlDreamer	but the UI may be a little involved	19:20
+patspam	yeah ok	19:21
+perlDreamer	I think I need to face the fact that I'm graphics impaired	19:22
+patspam	impaired?	19:22
+perlDreamer	API and CLI makes tons of sense to me	19:23
+perlDreamer	but my UI leaves a lot to be desired	19:23
+perlDreamer	which seems odd for a web developer	19:23
+patspam	that's why we have people like andyiomoon around	19:24
+patspam	where does the wre source repo live?	19:25
+patspam	ah, github	19:25
+perlDreamer	it's on PB's github	19:25
+patspam	hmm, looks like Image::Magick is going to stop me from being able to test wg against perl 5.12.0	19:29
+perlDreamer	it's really new, their team may not have done any testing against it yet	19:31
+perlDreamer	you can be the first to post the RT bug!	19:31
+perlDreamer	does this help: https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=56345	19:32
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5282a12 / (docs/gotcha.txt sbin/testEnvironment.pl): Note Test::Deep is required due to usage in Survey::Test and Asset::Event. - http://bit.ly/d2Gcm5	19:35
+patspam	ah I think maybe it's because PerlMagick on CPAN is version 6.59	19:35
+patspam	whereas ubuntu's ImageMagick is 6.5.1	19:35
+perlDreamer	are the version numbers tied together?	19:36
+patspam	yeah, seems to be suggested at http://www.imagemagick.org/script/perl-magick.php	19:36
+patspam	who else is going to YAPC::NA this year?	19:51
+perlDreamer	sorry, my travel budget is pretty dominated by the WUC this year	19:55
+perlDreamer	I'm hoping to squeeze in an OSCON tutorial, but we shall see	19:56
@Haarg	i'm planning to patspam	20:09
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+patspam	Haarg: great	21:26
+patspam	I got perl 5.12.0 installed	21:26
+patspam	site loaded but got: Unable to process macro 'AdminBar'	21:26
+patspam	will investigate more some other time	21:27
@preaction	the AdminBar is going away. but i don't know why it doesn't work right now unfortunately	21:28
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1cd7d8f / (t/Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster/featured.t t/Macro/PageUrl.t): Remove dead END blocks from some tests. - http://bit.ly/cMICBD	21:41
+patspam	I vote we migrate to 5.12 for the sake of the size of the webgui tarball	21:42
+patspam	think how much space we can save by deleting all those 'use strict's!	21:42
+perlDreamer	patspam is now President of the Society for the Conservation of Bits	21:43
+perlDreamer	uh, has anyone looked at the "appendMostPopular" method in WikiMaster?	21:47
@preaction	nope	21:47
+perlDreamer	I'm not seeing any kind of popularity weighing in on which assets are selected, or their order	21:47
* perlDreamer goes running, and ponders an implementation of breadth-first versus depth-first recursion, and its impact on hierarchial keyword displays		22:03
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CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r30a2c09 / (11 files in 4 dirs): URL handlers are now completely replaced by Middleware - http://bit.ly/bBsYXa	23:25
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rb38847b / (4 files in 3 dirs): back button/menu working - http://bit.ly/czzmfj	23:33
ckotil	When did the YUI vertical menu get introduced? it seems to do somethign wierd to <h1> tags	23:40
--- Day changed Thu Apr 15 2010
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* patspam just added preloading to psgi branch		00:37
+patspam	WebGUI under Starman uses about 10Mb per child worker	00:37
+patspam	with fixed additional overhead of about 100Mb	00:38
+patspam	so running 10 workers = ~200Mb	00:38
+patspam	20 works = 300M	00:38
+patspam	etc..	00:38
+patspam	there's still a lot of unnecessary cruft being preloaded (Apache2::Request etc..) so I'm sure we can trim it further	00:41
+perlDreamer	I though you had Unrequested the psgi branch?	00:41
+patspam	unrequested?	00:42
+perlDreamer	removed Apache2::Request	00:45
+patspam	oooh	00:45
+patspam	yeah I have, but there's still a few mentions of it in random bits of code that need to be cleaned up	00:45
+perlDreamer	ack to the rescue!	01:05
+perlDreamer	It's probably Session, and maybe Session/Http	01:05
+patspam	plus some weird ones like UsersOnline and SendWebguiStats	01:06
+perlDreamer	I get WebGUI.pm, Storage	01:06
+perlDreamer	and PerformanceProfiler	01:07
+perlDreamer	but that's in the master branch, not WebGUI8	01:07
+patspam	also HttpProxy	01:08
+perlDreamer	Apache2::Request?	01:09
+patspam	Apache2::Upload	01:09
+perlDreamer	I see, I should ack 'Apache2::'	01:09
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+patspam	sweet, I've got it down to under 10Mb per child worker	01:18
+patspam	with only one child your total cost is 98M	01:18
+patspam	with 10x child workers your total cost is 163M	01:18
+perlDreamer	dude, that's still massively less than Apache/mod_perl	01:19
+patspam	20x --> 235M, 30x --> 265M	01:19
+patspam	yeah!	01:19
+perlDreamer	we tell Apache to kill them at 150 Mb each	01:19
+perlDreamer	and they do get killed	01:19
+perlDreamer	hey, how does LeakTrace work with Plack/psgi?	01:19
+patspam	have't tried it	01:19
+patspam	I started playing with Test::Memory::Cycle last night	01:20
+perlDreamer	Andy Lester is a genius	01:21
+patspam	what's the best LeakTrace module to use?	01:21
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+patspam	Devel::LeakTrace::Fast?	01:22
+perlDreamer	Andy Armstrong is also a genius	01:23
+patspam	heh	01:23
+perlDreamer	what is with people named Andy and geniusness?	01:23
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+patspam	have you used any of the LeakTrace modules in the past?	01:26
+perlDreamer	no	01:27
+perlDreamer	patspam, in your dream implementation of wiki categories, are sub-categories defined in the keyword pages?	01:41
+patspam	um	01:44
+patspam	sorry, trying to remember	01:46
+patspam	how do you create subcategories in wikipedia? by adding categories to a category page?	01:46
+perlDreamer	I did a little reading into that,and that sounds right.	01:47
+perlDreamer	it isn't very clearly laid out	01:47
+patspam	ah, I see, other way around to what I was thinking	01:48
+patspam	you tag the sub-category as being in the parent category	01:48
+patspam	so for us, on a keyword page you tag it with the parent keyword to establish the hierarchy	01:48
+perlDreamer	right, in the parent (wiki), we give it a list of keywords. Those link, in turn, to pages where the title matches that keyword	01:50
+perlDreamer	but from there down, it's up to us to determine how to find the next level	01:50
+patspam	say I want to have: Administration > Performance > FilePump	01:50
+patspam	that's: top-level cat, sub-cat, article	01:51
+patspam	we like Administration in the wiki settings so that it knows it's a top-level cat	01:51
+perlDreamer	right	01:51
+patspam	then as a user, I first add the FilePump article, and tag it as Performance	01:51
+patspam	then I go to the Performance keyword page, and tag that as Administration	01:51
+perlDreamer	right	01:52
@Haarg	perlDreamer, what problems did you see with the WebGUI8/master merge?	02:08
+perlDreamer	it was varied, about 32 failing tests out of 3500	02:09
+perlDreamer	couldn't call cloneFromDb, unable to look up assetId, unable to find WEBGUI_FATAL	02:09
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+perlDreamer	back when we spoke earlier, I noted which test I ran, and what how I ran it for reference	02:09
+perlDreamer	but I've been doing support and wiki hacking all day long, and haven't looked deeply at what's failing	02:10
@Haarg	ok	02:10
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r4d703ff / (7 files in 7 dirs):	02:37
CIA-104	webgui: Added preloading	02:37
CIA-104	webgui: Removed evil overload	02:37
CIA-104	webgui: Removed references to Apache2:: from codebase	02:37
CIA-104	webgui: Attempted to remove circular references - http://bit.ly/abwdds	02:37
xdanger	I haven't been following the conversation or development os WebGUI8, but you talk a lot about Plack/psgi so is WG8 going to run on Plack?	03:04
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@preaction	xdanger: yes	03:18
xdanger	great	03:18
xdanger	I did some testing on plebgui when patspam first did the blog post	03:19
@preaction	after 8, our next major step will be consolidating around Template Toolkit and DBIx::Class, probably accompanied with a huge reduction in the codebase and a not-minor restructuring	03:19
xdanger	It was great for local dev	03:19
xdanger	You should have some kind of status update every month or so	03:20
@preaction	i don't have time, else i would	03:21
xdanger	has there been any other changes/additions to the original webgui8 plans?	03:22
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@preaction	memcached is no longer required, we're going to use CHI instead (to allow memcached, but also fastmmap and other caches)	03:25
@preaction	and a bunch of stuff was deemed "too much work", since plainblack has had to cut back on staff due to the economy	03:26
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xdanger	I just love perl and cpan =)	03:34
xdanger	"There's a Cpan package for that"	03:35
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r203686f / www/extras/admin/admin.js : back/forward button/menu done - http://bit.ly/b1aJWH	03:56
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+patspam	xdanger: http://www.flickr.com/photos/patspam/4505694655/in/photostream/	04:35
+patspam	the plack branch has eye-candy now too	04:35
@preaction	i gotta try this, see if i can rip out the current "debug mode"	04:46
@preaction	or did you already do that?	04:46
@preaction	damn, colin's not here. i wanted to ask his approval to merge	04:47
+patspam	call him on the batphone	04:47
@preaction	nono, way too late for that.	04:47
@preaction	besides, he already works too much and claims too few hours	04:48
+patspam	yeah true	04:48
@preaction	can Plack::Middleware::Debug be turned on/off while the server is running?	04:50
@preaction	perhaps even on a per-user basis?	04:50
+patspam	yeah, it uses canShowDebug	04:50
@preaction	i'd like to be able to debug a live site while the live site is still live	04:50
@preaction	ah, sweet. so i could make that a session var instead of a setting (leaving the security IP subnets, or maybe putting them in config instead)	04:51
+patspam	it's middleware, so it's per-request	04:51
+patspam	yep!	04:51
@preaction	good. simplify simplify is the name of the 8 game	04:51
+patspam	http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/blob/psgi/lib/WebGUI/Middleware/Session.pm#L70	04:52
+patspam	I've got it enabling StackTrace when debug mode is on too	04:52
+patspam	preaction: http://www.flickr.com/photos/patspam/4522358884/	04:59
@preaction	and no "WEBGUI_FATAL"? no "Internal Server Bullcrap"?	05:00
@preaction	yay!	05:00
@preaction	hmm... i would say if a session doesn't get created to just give a verbose error message: something is really wrong	05:01
@preaction	but that might require changes to Session->open. damn do i wish for proper exceptions...	05:02
@Haarg	preaction, http://haarg.org/perf-log.png	05:17
@preaction	oh fucking nice	05:17
@preaction	even if the performance itself isn't so great	05:17
@Haarg	i figured that was a better way to go than the inline perf things	05:18
@preaction	indeed, much much better	05:18
@Haarg	so they can just be tied to debug mode instead of being a separate setting	05:18
@preaction	that's another huge block of spaghetti code that will Not Be Missed	05:18
@Haarg	yes	05:18
@Haarg	with the combination of what patspam and i have done, Session::ErrorHandler does almost nothing now	05:19
@preaction	awesome. awesome to the max	05:20
@preaction	which reminds me. should we put "scratch" outside and make it $session->set(...) and $session->get(...)?	05:20
@Haarg	possibly	05:20
@Haarg	there's also session->var	05:20
@preaction	which are the read-only... wait... christ...	05:21
@Haarg	yeah	05:21
@preaction	one of those does not need to exist. and maybe both.	05:21
@preaction	Var could be properties of WebGUI::Session	05:21
@preaction	or whathaveyou	05:21
@Haarg	might make sense to have var be part of session and keep scratch as it is	05:22
@preaction	yeah	05:22
@Haarg	another middleware to make i think. Plack::Middleware::ProxyHeaders	05:25
@Haarg	to have it adjust the incoming data for stuff behind a forward proxy - X-Forwared-For and X-Forwarded-Proto	05:26
+patspam	preaction: I refactored it so that WebGUI can throw exceptions	05:35
@preaction	yes, but parts of the API rely on not throwing exceptions	05:36
@preaction	perhaps i should make that a decree: any place where we formerly returned undef to say "problem", we will eventually throw an exception	05:37
+patspam	yeah, exceptions are nice now that we have StackTrace	05:37
+patspam	and when you don't have debug mode on, the exception gets caught and mapped to a http error code	05:37
+patspam	and then http errors get mapped to your custom error docs :)	05:37
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+MrHairgrease	Good morning everybody!	10:31
+bartjol	mogge	10:36
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Windows__Killer	hello	15:27
Windows__Killer	anyone help me regarding installation of WebGUI	15:29
Windows__Killer	anyone there	15:29
+MrHairgrease	what is the problem?	15:30
Windows__Killer	i have just downloaded	15:40
Windows__Killer	do u have tutorial ?	15:40
Windows__Killer	please send me	15:41
Windows__Killer	fnasry@gmail.com	15:41
+MrHairgrease	http://www.webgui.org/install/wiki/webgui-installation-table-of-contents	15:42
Windows__Killer	thanks	15:42
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SDuensin	Howdy.	16:35
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+bartjol	again a strange problem with lineage, assets are being added with an existing lineage	17:33
+bartjol	and now it acts normal again	17:33
@Haarg	patspam, something we should do in the psgi branch: make the top level app.psgi file automatically map all of the site configs by hostname	17:35
+patspam	ah yeah, I hadn't really thought about multi-site	17:39
+patspam	for some reason I was thinking along the lines of site1.psgi, site2.psgi, but that's not right	17:40
@Haarg	well, maybe	17:40
@Haarg	one thought i had was to have a file var/app.psgi	17:40
@Haarg	that handles a single site	17:40
+perlDreamer	bartjol, lineage is set to be unique in the db	17:40
+perlDreamer	if that isn't working	17:40
@Haarg	and the main level app.psgi then wraps that for each host name	17:40
+perlDreamer	then we have a MySQL bug	17:40
@Haarg	but the site config could also contain an alternate psgi file to use	17:41
@Haarg	and you would still be able to just make your own psgi that only referenced your own site if you wanted to go that route	17:41
+bartjol	perlDreamer: well, it only tries to do that, and then fails	17:41
+patspam	interesting	17:41
+perlDreamer	well, that's good then	17:41
+bartjol	so no mysql bug	17:42
+perlDreamer	it's only a WebGUI bug :P	17:42
+bartjol	:)	17:42
+perlDreamer	is this a site with heavy usage?	17:42
+bartjol	but it only happens on one site and (afaik) 1 asset	17:42
@Haarg	i may be trying to hard to make it more like our existing setup, but it seems like a reasonable approach anyway	17:42
+bartjol	no that much	17:42
+perlDreamer	which asset is it?	17:43
+bartjol	a page layout	17:44
+bartjol	quiet common	17:44
+perlDreamer	vanilla, core code?	17:44
+perlDreamer	note, have to take kids to school in T-1 minute	17:44
+patspam	haarg: the current architecture needs some refactoring in that case	17:44
@Haarg	how so?	17:45
+patspam	we need a config object per-site	17:45
+patspam	I guess we could create a WebGUI object per-site too	17:45
+patspam	I just baked preloading into the WebGUI object, which assumes it only gets run once per server	17:46
@Haarg	hmm	17:46
@Haarg	what bit of code are you referencing?	17:49
+patspam	http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/blob/psgi/lib/WebGUI.pm#L145	17:54
@Haarg	i wouldn't worry about that too much. it could probably just be left out for now until we merge in WebGUI::Paths.	17:55
+patspam	yeah, I'm dying for that	17:58
@Haarg	it's ready for merge, except it entirely breaks wgdev	17:59
+patspam	I really like the way psgi is forcing us to separate out per-server, per-site and per-request scopes	17:59
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* perlDreamer is back		18:00
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r7285454 / app.psgi : Multi-site support - http://bit.ly/bNuowk	18:00
+patspam	haard: http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/blob/psgi/app.psgi	18:00
+patspam	s/ha{2}rd/haarg/	18:01
+perlDreamer	you realize it was shorter to just type haarg, patspam?	18:01
@Haarg	perlDreamer, why did we end up using Net::CIDR::Lite instead of one of the alternatives?	18:01
+perlDreamer	I liked it better than the others	18:02
+perlDreamer	they all had the same functionality	18:02
+patspam	perlDreamer: I probably should have used s/h(a+)rd/h$1rg/	18:06
+patspam	in case he sprouts another 'a'	18:06
+perlDreamer	he does do that	18:07
+perlDreamer	right now I think he's grinding his teeth over my method for choosing modules	18:07
+patspam	damn, psgi is evil	18:07
@Haarg	no, i was just wondering	18:07
+patspam	I swore today I was going to do $work	18:07
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@Haarg	the module i'm working on needs to match ips and right now i just have it doing string matching	18:08
+patspam	it sucks you in with its shiny goodness	18:08
@Haarg	was considering adding netmask/cidr	18:08
* patspam goes back to reviewing client tickets		18:08
+perlDreamer	Net::CIDR::Lite will handle that	18:11
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym, and considers a divorce from Test::Deep		19:16
@preaction	A no-fault divorce? Be careful, it might take half your stuff	19:29
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r8206aea / (5 files in 5 dirs): enhance format of .wgaccess files to provide security for Gallery files - http://bit.ly/ciOd20	19:39
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * rb761a92 / (5 files in 5 dirs): enhance format of .wgaccess files to provide security for Gallery files - http://bit.ly/9L02M7	19:43
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mech422	/crickets	20:29
+perlDreamer	how's your Account plugin, mech422?	20:30
mech422	done - works a treat :-)	20:41
mech422	iContact is kinda borked though	20:41
mech422	if a user 'unsubscribes' from your mailing list, you can't resubscribe without going to their website... so to allow users to toggle 'receive email' back and forth you need to move them on/off a "don't bother me" list	20:42
mech422	very wierd	20:42
mech422	I'm now perusing the lovely import user script you included in the box :-)	20:43
mech422	(plone uses SSHA passwd hashes, but we decided to skip the auth plugin nad just have users reset their passwords)	20:43
mech422	got about 20k of users to import	20:44
+perlDreamer	that'll take a while	20:45
+perlDreamer	but the userImport script will let you set their username, password and all profile fields	20:45
+perlDreamer	also, initial group membership	20:45
@Haarg	finally made something posting as a cpan module, Plack::Middleware::ForwardedHeaders	20:46
mech422	yeah - its seems pretty slick :-) Do you happen to know if it handles quoted strings ? ( juser, "Joe User", somepassword )	20:47
mech422	( I guess I should write a test script and see how this works: @user{@field} = @row; -that seems to be the key piece ? )	20:49
@Haarg	it doesn't handle quoted strings, but it is a tab separated file so things with spaces should be fine unquoted	20:51
mech422	oh thanks	20:51
@Haarg	it should probably be changed to use Text::CSV_XS	20:53
mech422	I was sorta surprised there wasn't some sort of perl CSV module being used	20:53
mech422	python has a fairly nice one for working with csv	20:53
+perlDreamer	Haarg, definitely	20:54
+perlDreamer	mech422, if you want to submit a patch with that, we'd take it	20:54
+perlDreamer	give you kudos in the authors credits file	20:54
+perlDreamer	shower you with karma on webgui.org	20:54
mech422	perlDreamer: LOL - probably not the one you want making changes like that... all your import users would prolly end up with a password fo 'foobar'	20:54
+perlDreamer	mech422, don't sell youreself short :)	20:55
+perlDreamer	plus, we'd audit the patch and run some tests on it before committing	20:55
+perlDreamer	well, Test::Differences has much better debug output, but Test::Deep allows you to do things that it can't	21:00
+perlDreamer	like array checking, partial hash checking, etc	21:00
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+perlDreamer	Why in the world don't the List-type Form plugins take an array reference, instead of a hashref?	21:14
@preaction	because!	21:14
+perlDreamer	I find it hard to debate that login	21:16
+perlDreamer	err, logic	21:16
kimd	You mean, because preaction is right?	21:18
+perlDreamer	in this case, yes	21:19
mech422	wait - wasn't that one of the rules ?	21:20
mech422	don't get him wet...	21:21
@preaction	perlbot tmrfe	21:21
perlbot	preaction: The Man Responsible For Everything -- Sometimes you DO have someone to blame.	21:21
mech422	don't feed him after midnight	21:21
mech422	don't tell him he's right ?	21:21
@preaction	yeah, he might get used to it	21:21
mech422	hehe	21:21
+perlDreamer	no, we'll shoot him down, question his credibility and assault his self-esteem tomorrow	21:23
kimd	Shouldn't we assault his self-esteem before shooting him down? Otherwise it's no fun.	21:24
@preaction	awesome! i won't be here tomorrow!	21:24
kimd	Lucky you!	21:26
+patspam	http://www.flickr.com/photos/hanekomu/4517449333/	21:38
mech422	Hmm - maybe in hte new version - setenvironment could set a WEBGUI_ROOT too ?	21:40
mech422	the trick used to find the root in the userImport script means it has to be run from a specific dir	21:40
mech422	stuffing it in hte env could give a nice consistent way to find it ? or am I missing something ?	21:41
@preaction	that sounds like a good idea	21:42
@Haarg	it wouldn't be hard to just adjust all the scripts to just use a directory relative to themselves instead of the current directory.	21:43
mech422	Haarg: thats what userImport does - webguiRoot = '..'	21:44
mech422	but then you have to be in the 'right' dir when you run it	21:44
@Haarg	yeah	21:44
@Haarg	instead it should be relative to the script file itself	21:44
mech422	getting the 'real' path of a script cross platform is a bit of a PITA.. I had to do it in bash one time..	21:45
mech422	the 'easy way out' is just stuff it in a var somewhere	21:45
@Haarg	you could also use wgdev	21:45
@Haarg	http://gist.github.com/367486	21:47
@Haarg	ugly, but would work better than what we have right now	21:48
@Haarg	preaction, do you see any reason not to just make that change?	21:49
+perlDreamer	it's just one of a whole bunch of changes that need to be done to that script	21:49
@preaction	no, sounds good	21:49
+perlDreamer	like CSV_XS and everything else	21:49
@Haarg	well, that change is for all scripts	21:50
@preaction	soon enough we'll have WebGUI in @INC and all this bullshit can go away	21:50
@Haarg	yes	21:50
+perlDreamer	and all wi' be well, all manner of things wi' be well	21:54
mech422	heh - it ran, said 'starting ok' 'ending ok' but nothing imported :-P I must have been a horrible person in a former life	21:55
mech422	so iffin I gotta tear this apart - CSV_XS is the module you want to use ?	21:56
@Haarg	Text::CSV_XS	21:56
mech422	thanks :-)	21:58
+perlDreamer	mech422, it's like a format problem in your usersFile	21:58
+perlDreamer	which means converting it to Text::CSV_XS won't help	21:58
mech422	yeah - the file didn't open	22:03
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * raaa0924 / (18 files): allow running sbin scripts from any directory - http://bit.ly/clft45	22:03
mech422	needs an '\|\| die()' on the open ?	22:03
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r7c7136f / lib/WebGUI/URL/Uploads.pm : remove useless variable declaration - http://bit.ly/cjYYXY	22:03
mech422	Woot! I have users :-D	22:05
+perlDreamer	Haarg, do the recent changes to the .wgaccess file need an upgrade script to iterate and upgrade them, or will they work in both formats?	22:06
kimd	perlDreamer, how to use no plan in testing combined with testing_done?	22:08
+perlDreamer	kimd, for now, I don't recommend that you do that	22:08
kimd	Why is that?	22:08
+perlDreamer	it won't work with older perl's, and their testing infrastructure	22:09
kimd	5.0.8?	22:09
kimd	or was it 5.8?	22:09
+perlDreamer	5.8	22:09
+perlDreamer	in WebGUI 8, it won't be an issue any longer	22:09
kimd	Hm. Back to counting tests...	22:09
+perlDreamer	we mandate 5.10, and it has all the right versions of test modules to use no_plan, and testing_done	22:09
+perlDreamer	it's a big bummer, but the end is coming	22:10
@preaction	kimd: you could run the tests, it will tell you how many were run	22:10
+perlDreamer	yes	22:10
kimd	I am just not sure whether it will always remain the same.	22:10
kimd	I am running a loop on a storage location.	22:10
kimd	At the moment there should be two resolutions and a thumbnail.	22:10
kimd	But what if the code changes and there are more in the future?	22:11
kimd	(Talking about the Photo asset)	22:11
@preaction	then the test fails and someone has to update it	22:11
@preaction	i would rather have failing tests than questionable coverage	22:11
@preaction	wgd lets you do a coverage report automatically when testing though	22:12
kimd	Alright. Going to hardcode the number then.	22:12
@preaction	wait, why run a loop when you can use Test::Deep's bag or supersetof()?	22:12
+perlDreamer	kimd, that is a good 2nd option	22:13
+perlDreamer	Test::Deep will let you run "loop"-type tests on every member of data sent to it	22:13
+perlDreamer	and it only counts as 1 test	22:14
kimd	The answer is simple: I have never done it and it will take me probably 20min+ to find out how to do it.	22:14
+perlDreamer	it's your call. If you want help converting it to Test::Deep just show paste a snippet of the test	22:16
kimd	Sounds fair.	22:22
kimd	Something else first, though:	22:22
kimd	How can I push an array to an array without adding the single elements?	22:22
kimd	I want an array of arrays.	22:23
kimd	Or is that not possible in perl? Do I need to use refs?	22:24
+perlDreamer	push @array, \@array2;	22:24
+perlDreamer	so, yes to both questions :)	22:25
kimd	Aargh! I should hate you all for making me write test functions...	22:27
kimd	(But I don't).	22:27
+patspam	so if I add inbox attachments..	22:29
+patspam	only users who can read the message should be allowed to download the attachments	22:30
@preaction	patspam: the new wgaccess file format should fix that for you	22:32
+patspam	new wgaccess file format?	22:32
@preaction	just merged today to fix a security problem in the gallery	22:32
+patspam	yeah because this site has a modified WebGUI that makes Inbox::can_read dynamic	22:33
kimd	Is it possible that cmp_deeply does not check for the correct order of elements?	22:33
+patspam	more dynamic than userId and groupId anyway	22:33
@preaction	WebGUI::Storage should be able to help explain things	22:33
kimd	I mean, (1024, 768) is identical to (768, 1024)?	22:33
@preaction	kimd: yes, that's what bag() is for	22:33
+patspam	preaction: in master?	22:33
@preaction	patspam: and 7.8, yes	22:33
+patspam	yay	22:33
+patspam	perfect, multiple groups!	22:35
kimd	preaction, I think it's the other way round. I meant cmp_bag.	22:35
kimd	Working now. Thanks!	22:35
@preaction	yeah, cmp_bag = cmp_deeply( $something, bag( $expected ) )	22:36
+patspam	kimd: your PBWG photo would make your dentist proud	22:36
kimd	patspam, they are a bit yellowish, in fact. But they did a good job at plainblack :-)	22:37
kimd	Is it ok for $storage->getFiles('showAll') to return the current directory pseudo file? ('.')	22:41
+patspam	that smells bad to me	22:43
+patspam	although I've managed to mostly steer clear of WebGUI::Storage up until now, so I don't know if that would be useful or bugful	22:44
+perlDreamer	kimd, that's the way it's supposed to work	22:46
kimd	Ok. That means I have to filter it out.	22:46
* perlDreamer is out for lunch for a while		22:47
@Haarg	perlDreamer, wgaccess changes are backwards compatible	22:47
kimd	One more stupid question, is there a function to skip the current iteration of a for loop?	22:49
@preaction	kimd: perldoc -f next	22:51
@preaction	so "next if $file == ".";	22:51
kimd	Cool! Thanks.	22:51
kimd	That's almost like basic, isn't it?	22:51
@preaction	i don't know that basic has postfix notation	22:51
kimd	You are right. I was just referring to the next directive.	22:52
@preaction	but it's better than "continue" and "break", whatever those mean	22:52
@preaction	perl has "next" and "last" instead	22:52
kimd	You know, I loved to type those little basic programs when I was a teenager...	22:54
kimd	Every little game was hard work...	22:55
kimd	Why does it take me about 10x more time for implementing testing functions than implementing the actual RFE?	22:57
kimd	Is that due to my limited programming skills?	22:57
@preaction	no, it's due to not being familiar with the testing functions, and that testing really does take more time than implementation	22:57
kimd	It's very painful to be honest.	22:58
kimd	I read the idea about test-driven implementation.	22:58
kimd	I liked it in the beginning.	22:58
@preaction	but it's much better for the stability of the platform as a whole	22:58
kimd	But reality is really tough.	22:58
kimd	Still, I am making progress.	22:58
@preaction	i mean, here in WebGUI, some people get to write features and then foist the problems off on Colin or I	22:59
kimd	Yeah, I can definitely see your point.	22:59
@preaction	which is why we need to maintain standards of code contributions: everyone has to deal with the consequences of bad code	22:59
kimd	That is why I try to make better.	22:59
@preaction	right, and if i had a problem with the code it wouldn't have been merged at all	23:00
@preaction	it's just that before i would vet certain things, we let in a lot of problematic code we are still paying the maintenance costs on	23:00
kimd	On the other, the burden for contributing to webgui has become extremely high.	23:01
kimd	You almost need to be a WebGUI expert.	23:01
kimd	I assume that is the reason that so few people contribute code.	23:01
@preaction	no, people rarely contributed code before this	23:01
@preaction	they did when we paid them contracting rates mostly	23:01
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kimd	Hm. Why do believe there is so little activity? I mean, there are quite a few companies using WebGUI.	23:02
@preaction	in 7.8, we didn't have any money to pay for contractors, which is why very few features went in	23:02
kimd	Sad, isn't it?	23:02
@preaction	i don't know. i really don't. i've asked for help doing very little things, and they seem to agree, but nothing ever gets actually done	23:02
@preaction	(one was "hosting for a WRE build server")	23:03
@preaction	but i mean that's the state of the world really	23:03
kimd	No one's time for anything. But you know, time is a matter of priority.	23:03
@preaction	so what we'll do is heap as much reward and recognition as we can on those who do contribute	23:03
kimd	Well, do you really think that the people contributing are doing this for the reward and recognition?	23:04
kimd	I mean, I appreciate a nice word.	23:04
kimd	And quick response to my code.	23:04
kimd	But in fact, I am being very much selfish.	23:05
kimd	I am using WebGUI.	23:05
@preaction	Squonk got us into Debian. Elnino has tested every feature of WebGUI personally. perlDreamer needs no introduction (we're just glad we can pay him for all the work he does at the moment)	23:05
kimd	Contributing benefits me personally.	23:05
@preaction	patspam is contributing a huge amount of WebGUI 8 and has contributed other huge features to WebGUI 7	23:05
kimd	And what do you think is driving them?	23:06
@preaction	personal interest, same as what drives everyone to do anything	23:06
@preaction	its just their personal interest also benefits other people	23:06
@preaction	you don't have to contribute changes back to webgui core, at all.	23:07
kimd	Exactly. So why don't other people contribute that are making money with WebGUI?	23:07
@preaction	the only benefit you get is that the community will help fix problems and add features	23:07
@preaction	that, sir, is a question for the ages, and every F/OSS project would love an answer	23:07
kimd	For me it is very simple:	23:07
kimd	Adding features to the core reduces my work upon upgrades.	23:08
kimd	Does everyone else really prefer customized WebGUI installations?	23:08
@preaction	well, and greater exposure means "all bugs are shallow"	23:08
kimd	shallow?	23:08
@preaction	well, some places have highly specialized apps (many of our clients)	23:08
@preaction	shallow, easy to unearth (find) / debug	23:08
@preaction	Eric S Raymond explores this in "The Cathedral and the Bazaar"	23:09
kimd	I still don't get it.	23:10
kimd	If I was earning money with WebGUI I would probably dedicate a day per week to general development.	23:10
kimd	On average, of course.	23:10
kimd	What about the wre build server.	23:11
kimd	?	23:11
kimd	What is it that you need?	23:11
@preaction	nothing anymore. i can't build the WRE on OSX 10.6 because of 64-bit incompatibility problems	23:11
kimd	Anything else I might be able to do in order to help you?	23:12
@preaction	and i have to focus on WebGUI 8 development, can't waste time trying to figure out why the WRE won't build	23:12
@Haarg	preaction, which part was actually failing?	23:12
@preaction	after i got every other little issue fixed, it was Class::MOP failing to build	23:13
@preaction	i think after i removed that, SSL just didn't work (even though it compiled just fine)	23:13
@Haarg	32-bit build?	23:13
@preaction	yes	23:13
@preaction	i had to reorg a whole bunch of Build.sh to make it accept the right CC, CCFLAGS, CPP, CPPFLAGS LDFLAGS, etc...	23:14
@Haarg	perlDreamer, is there a reason we couldn't update the Test::More dependency for 7.9 to allow done_testing?	23:15
kimd	Alright, guys. It's 22:20 already. I think I need to go to bed.	23:19
kimd	Enjoy the rest of your day.	23:20
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--- Day changed Fri Apr 16 2010
+perlDreamer	Haarg, if it means revving the WRE, I'd rather not	00:03
+perlDreamer	it's pure convenience	00:03
+perlDreamer	and normally I'm a big fan of that	00:03
+perlDreamer	but counting tests is too easy	00:03
+perlDreamer	plus, I'd really rather stick it to them, all at once, in WebGUI 8	00:03
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mech422	Hmm - 64 bit is still an issue ? it works pretty well here ... thought it was all resolved ?	00:32
@Haarg	there's a few different sides to the issue	00:32
@Haarg	you can run the 32bit version on a 64bit os without problems	00:32
@Haarg	and we can compile a 64bit version on mac os x (where we do all our development)	00:33
@Haarg	bit we haven't had any luck compiling a 32bit version on os x 10.6	00:33
mech422	I have a pure 64bit build on Debian AMD64	00:33
@Haarg	*but	00:33
@Haarg	patspam, ping	00:34
+patspam	haarg: pong	00:51
@Haarg	i made the module Plack::Middleware::ForwardedHeaders to deal with X-Forwarded-For and similar headers. it adjusts REMORE_ADDR and psgi.url_scheme. do you think it's worth saving the initial values in $env somewhere?	00:52
+patspam	what's it used for?	00:54
@Haarg	what is which used for?	00:54
+patspam	X-Forwarded-For etc..	00:55
+patspam	proxies?	00:55
@Haarg	if you have your server behind a reverse proxy, the remote ip address and protocol aren't really correct. so Apache for example sends a X-Forwarded-For header specifying the original client ip that requested the page.	00:55
+patspam	ah nice	00:56
+patspam	but if the proxy does it, why do you need to do it in the webapp?	00:57
@Haarg	the proxy just adds those headers	00:57
+patspam	oh I see	00:57
@Haarg	the web app needs to specifically use them	00:57
@Haarg	so the middleware just adjusts the normal places that the information is stored based on those headers	00:57
+patspam	I don't see why you'd need to keep the original values if you're using that	00:58
@Haarg	ok	00:58
+patspam	heh but easy to add later without breaking anything if people need it :)	00:58
@Haarg	i actually already added it but i'm planning to rip it out because i don't like how it looks	00:58
@Haarg	storing in ORIGINAL_REMOTE_ADDR and original.psgi.url_scheme	00:59
@Haarg	ugly	00:59
@preaction	isn't there a PROXY_VIA or something?	01:05
@Haarg	there is also Via, but that's more for normal proxies	01:05
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CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r8b2b1bc / (lib/WGDev.pm lib/WGDev/Asset.pm lib/WGDev/Command/Reset.pm): add rudimentary support for WebGUI::Paths - http://bit.ly/aCHGKx	02:34
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r25499e9 / lib/WGDev/Command/Build.pm : enforce utf8 on tables in create.sql - http://bit.ly/bZ93ZT	02:34
+patspam	I think setenvironment.sh should completely stomp on $PERL5LIB	02:54
+patspam	if you already have something in there, say if you're using local::lib for other perl development, you don't want the wre's perl trying to use those libs	02:55
+perlDreamer	does sendmail log everything, or only problems?	02:59
@Haarg	preaction, perlDreamer, patspam i merged WebGUI::Paths in	03:14
+patspam	haarg++	03:14
@Haarg	made some small adjustments to wgdev enough so that reset works	03:14
+patspam	you game to merge it into the psgi branch?	03:19
@Haarg	not at the moment	03:20
@Haarg	tomorrow though sure	03:20
+patspam	awesome	03:20
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SDuensin	FRIIIIIIIDAAAAAAAY!	16:35
+MrHairgrease	so they say	16:35
SDuensin	Why yes they do.	16:37
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+bartjol	MrHairgrease: I? upgrading your site	16:55
+MrHairgrease	ok	16:55
+bartjol	and I will move it to the oqapi server	16:56
+MrHairgrease	ok	16:56
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CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop psgi * rf88d2b2 / (lib/WebGUI/Middleware/Session.pm var/site.psgi): move debug configuration into psgi - http://bit.ly/cqlmyY	17:07
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@Haarg	patspam, my psgi branch on github has WebGUI8(with WebGUI::Paths)+psgi merged, along with a multi-site .psgi file	17:28
+patspam	haarg++	17:28
+patspam	awesome!	17:28
+patspam	push it to pb?	17:28
@Haarg	well, there are a few things that still need to be fixed	17:29
@Haarg	session->env for one	17:29
@Haarg	and it may not be serving error pages correctly	17:29
+patspam	yeah true	17:30
+patspam	I meant push it as the new psgi branch	17:31
@Haarg	ah	17:31
@Haarg	it's probably ok for that	17:32
+patspam	yeah, env is probably broken already	17:32
@Haarg	it is	17:32
@Haarg	we may just want to get rid of it	17:32
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@Haarg	one thing i noticed was weakening config in a couple places	17:34
@Haarg	is there any real reason to do that?	17:34
@Haarg	config objects don't have references back to anything else so they should be garbage collected properly	17:34
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@Haarg	patspam, is debug mode the only reason WebGUI::Middleware::Session has special handling for Plack::Middleware::ErrorDocument?	18:14
+patspam	I baked in ErrorDocument as a general feature	18:15
+patspam	just experimenting really	18:15
@Haarg	ah, ok	18:15
@Haarg	i'd kind of like to take as much stuff as is reasonable and stick it in the .psgi file	18:16
+patspam	rather than having it in the Session middleware?	18:16
@Haarg	yeah	18:16
+patspam	yeah I agree	18:16
+patspam	stick to Plack's pluggableness	18:16
@Haarg	yeah	18:17
@Haarg	and stuff like enable_if makes is really easy to do that	18:17
+patspam	I think the reason I put error_docs into Session was because of the debug mode	18:18
@Haarg	ok, cool	18:18
@Haarg	really easy to move it then :)	18:18
+patspam	when debug mode is on, you don't want exceptions to be caught	18:18
+patspam	so that StackTrace can catch em, rather than HTTPExceptions	18:18
@Haarg	WebGUI::Middleware::Session now sets webgui.debug, so enable_if can switch out the different middlewares easily	18:19
+patspam	awesome	18:19
@Haarg	every time i take a look at another part of this, i see how plack allows you to further simplify things	18:20
+patspam	the weaken() stuff was from the other day when I was playing with Devel::Leak etc..	18:20
+patspam	again just experimenting	18:20
@Haarg	we definitely need to stick some more weaken stuff into the session sub-objects	18:21
+patspam	yeah. I haven't found a cpan module I like for tracking down leaks yet	18:22
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ckotil	found some wierdness today when copy/pasting inside a version tag. i pasted an existing asset to a new location. it shows up even before the tag is committed. so the asset isnt accessible even through the asset manager, until you attach to the version tag	19:48
@Haarg	i'm not sure i follow	19:49
@Haarg	it was an asset that existed outside the version tag or not?	19:49
+perlDreamer	ckotil, and by "showing up" do you mean that it appeared on the site via its URL (with no revision query frag), or that it showed up in a navigation, or something else?	20:01
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ckotil	ah yeah, that would help. it showed up in a nav asset	20:19
+perlDreamer	this was a new asset, or an old one?	20:19
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ckotil	the asset existed before the version tag. i might have cut it before the new version tag was created. but definately pasted it while working in the new version tag	20:19
ckotil	old	20:20
+perlDreamer	cut/paste isn't a versioned operation	20:20
+perlDreamer	it's immediate	20:20
ckotil	ok. as long as that is expected. i just wanted to make sure that wasnt a bug	20:20
ckotil	my dead link checker found it ;)	20:20
+perlDreamer	after that recent spate of bugs on the bug list, I'm not discounting anything for a while	20:24
+perlDreamer	but I'm fairly sure that you're seeing expected behavior	20:24
+perlDreamer	ckotil, do you know much about sendmail?	20:24
ckotil	not too much.	20:36
ckotil	i know its picky when it encounters a hostname mis match. had an email bomb not long ago while renaming some hosts	20:36
+perlDreamer	does it log all email transactions, or only those that have problems?	20:37
ckotil	a ton of bounce messages stacked up, and then when sendmail was restart BOOM	20:37
ckotil	everythign should get logged to /var/log/maillog	20:37
ckotil	youll see where the message originates from and where it goes. nothign more than that tho	20:38
ckotil	no subject or body. each message is assigned an ID	20:38
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+perlDreamer	thanks, ckotil	21:45
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ckotil	ohh i like the rollback version tag status bar visual in 7.8	23:40
@frodwith	call for opinion: should calling setWorking() on a locked version tag die or just do nothing?	23:57
@Haarg	for 7 probably do nothing	23:58
--- Day changed Sat Apr 17 2010
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@frodwith	Sanity checks to make sure no one ever has a locked version tag as their working tag: look good? http://pastie.org/923866	00:39
@Haarg	seems reasonable to me	00:49
+perlDreamer	frodwith, would it be easier to just push all the checks inside setWorking?	01:04
+perlDreamer	it's encapsulated in 1 place that way	01:04
+perlDreamer	and all custom code would be covered without needing to make any changes	01:04
@frodwith	perlDreamer: while technically yes, that should be sufficient, I'm sort of trying to bulletproof the thing -- I have a client site where it really shouldn't be possible to have a locked working tag, but it's happening to them. If for instance you set stow or scratch variables properly, getWorking could return you a locked tag.	01:07
+perlDreamer	that makes sense	01:08
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * r1a77fce / (lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm t/VersionTag.t): make it impossible to have a locked working tag - http://bit.ly/cXa4Ft	01:25
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r55d2e51 / (8 files in 7 dirs): Add top-level keywords, which allows for hierarchial categorization of wiki pages. - http://bit.ly/bp5uJx	06:47
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+perlDreamer	patspam: ping	23:47
--- Day changed Sun Apr 18 2010
+patspam	perlDreamer: pong	00:20
+patspam	just back from final house inspection	00:20
+patspam	we're officially moving!	00:20
@preaction	yay!	00:21
+patspam	did you just move preaction?	00:21
+patspam	(twitter post)	00:21
@preaction	yep. all moved in madison	00:21
+patspam	yay!	00:22
@preaction	indeed!	00:22
@preaction	where's you moving to?	00:22
+patspam	Greenpoint	00:22
+patspam	still in Brooklyn, but a bit more buzzing than where we are currently	00:23
@preaction	nice	00:24
@preaction	how is new york city?	00:24
+patspam	really fun, still kinda finding my way around	00:25
@preaction	heh, i can imagine.	00:25
+patspam	just got access to a bike again, so starting to explore more	00:25
+patspam	(push bike)	00:26
@preaction	definitely the best way to explore the city	00:26
+patspam	yeah!	00:26
+patspam	just a little scary when you're used to riding on the other side of the road	00:26
@preaction	heh. no respect for bike riders eh?	00:27
@preaction	oh, right, australia	00:27
+patspam	heh yeah, the no respect for cyclists thing is universal	00:28
+perlDreamer	patspam, you're moving _again_?	00:29
+patspam	heh yeah	00:30
+patspam	we're subletting at the moment	00:30
+perlDreamer	ah	00:30
+patspam	and our area is a bit too far away from the action	00:30
+perlDreamer	my earlier ping was for some git help, but I think I have it worked out	00:30
+patspam	ah ok	00:30
+perlDreamer	I keep forgetting to to a "rebase --continue" before doing commit	00:30
+perlDreamer	if you do the commit first, all the work is in vain	00:31
+patspam	hmm I've never tried that	00:31
+perlDreamer	I don't recommend it :/	00:31
+patspam	do you have git status in your $PS1?	00:31
+perlDreamer	not any longer. I aborted the rebase and did a fresh pull	00:31
+patspam	actually I don't think that would help in this case anyway	00:32
+perlDreamer	uh, no, PS1 = ${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}\u@\h:\w\$	00:32
+patspam	but it's nice to be constantly reminded what branch you're on at least	00:32
+patspam	haarg has some crazy PS1 magic going on	00:32
+patspam	little icons for everything	00:32
+perlDreamer	the words Haarg and crazy magic are not unexpected when used together	00:32
+perlDreamer	preaction, you bought the condo next to JT, didn't ya?	00:33
+patspam	sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from haarg	00:33
+perlDreamer	if I hadn't actually seen him eat and drink, I'd guess he's just a hologram	00:34
+patspam	preaction: you going to any perl conferences this summer?	00:44
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r2bb4b0c / (7 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into WebGUI8 - http://bit.ly/aCeAia	00:53
+perlDreamer	the forced merge should be fine now	00:54
* perlDreamer takes Timmo out for a Jamba break. BBL		01:03
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CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r8b05bc9 / var/site.psgi : Temporary preloading - http://bit.ly/alLOD1	02:50
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * recc9967 / (lib/WebGUI.pm var/site.psgi): Think twice before "improving" anything Haarg has committed - http://bit.ly/chd1DS	02:50
+patspam	my lesson for the day ^^	02:50
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@preaction	perlDreamer: no, i wish. those damned things are NIIIIICE. I got an apartment about 2 blocks away	03:35
@preaction	patspam: we've all learned that lesson. now if only he would document why he's always right we could learn something ;)	03:36
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+patspam	Haarg: ping	20:18
+patspam	performance is fine, that was just me being a knucklehead	20:19
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@Haarg	patspam, cool	21:26
@Haarg	actually performance isn't fine, at least not with debug mode on	21:26
@Haarg	which is less important, but it's still a problem	21:27
+patspam	oh yeah, that's definitely true	21:30
+patspam	very slow with debug on	21:30
+patspam	but I'm not really bothered by that (yet)	21:30
+patspam	do we even need preload.custom?	21:30
+patspam	I'd rather put "use lib" into site-specific psgi files	21:31
+patspam	rather than a server-wide preload.custom, which I have to continually modify depending on which sites I'm running on my server	21:31
@Haarg	two problems with that	21:37
@Haarg	one is that the code would be loaded server wide and having it in separate psgi files could hide the impact they might have on other sites	21:37
@Haarg	more importantly though is that the custom libraries need to be loaded for utility scripts as well	21:38
+patspam	hmm true	21:39
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop psgi * r44da1e2 / (5 files in 2 dirs): fix things i broke - http://bit.ly/cj2Nfb	21:42
+patspam	might be easier if you push direct to plainblack/psgi?	21:44
@Haarg	i suppose :)	21:44
+patspam	I fixed some of those things already	21:45
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop psgi * rd667f72 / (4 files in 2 dirs): fix things i broke - http://bit.ly/99xeq7	21:46
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * rbe7e4c3 / lib/WGDev.pm : make sure cleanup doesn't swallow errors - http://bit.ly/9yWfhC	21:47
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * rf99f672 / (TODO lib/WebGUI.pm): Minor refactoring - http://bit.ly/9p6FmV	21:53
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r5c70ffb / (7 files in 5 dirs):	21:53
CIA-104	webgui: Minor improvements	21:53
CIA-104	webgui: Updated TODO	21:53
CIA-104	webgui: Enabled preloading	21:53
CIA-104	webgui: Added defaultPSGI to WebGUI::Paths	21:53
CIA-104	webgui: Added example of testing site via Plack::Test - http://bit.ly/bk9Fht	21:53
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r7510233 / (4 files in 2 dirs):	21:53
CIA-104	webgui: Merge branch 'psgi' of github.com:plainblack/webgui into psgi	21:53
CIA-104	webgui: * 'psgi' of github.com:plainblack/webgui:	21:53
CIA-104	webgui: fix things i broke	21:53
CIA-104	webgui: Conflicts:	21:53
CIA-104	webgui: lib/WebGUI/Session/ErrorHandler.pm - http://bit.ly/a6kNE2	21:53
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--- Day changed Mon Apr 19 2010
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@Haarg	patspam, been working on a number of performance enhancements. more Moose stuff than psgi stuff.	02:23
+patspam	awesome, any significant gains?	02:24
@Haarg	but i have database and templating back as the top things in nytprof's inclusive time list	02:24
@Haarg	so that's reasonable	02:24
@Haarg	also, bash alias:	02:27
@Haarg	alias nytplackup='PERL5OPT=-d:NYTProf NYTPROF=sigexit=1:start=no:$NTYPROF plackup -e "my \$app = Plack::Util::load_psgi(\$psgi \|\| \"app.psgi\"); undef \$psgi; DB::enable_profile(); \$app"'	02:27
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:42
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+bartjol	morning	16:53
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@Haarg	morning perlDreamer	17:56
+perlDreamer	morning, Haarg	17:56
+perlDreamer	today is a momentous day	17:56
@Haarg	oh?	17:56
+perlDreamer	today, we close the long standing -007 spectre bug	17:56
@Haarg	oh nice	17:57
@Haarg	question with WebGUI8 - is there a reason we aren't using ->meta->make_immutable yet?	17:58
+perlDreamer	laziness?	17:59
@preaction	not yet. we'll make a performance sweep near the end of the cycle (so Nov/Dec)	17:59
@preaction	i mean, go ahead, but we'll be poring over every inch of the code around that time	17:59
@preaction	i want all the features done before then, if possible	18:00
+perlDreamer	speaking of that, who's in charge of the form reworking in WebGUI8?	18:00
@preaction	well, we haven't gotten that far yet	18:00
@preaction	i will be working on the asset edit stuff in a couple weeks	18:00
@preaction	and when someone finishes their major task we'll assign the rest of it to them	18:01
@Haarg	http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/commits/psgi/lib/WebGUI a bunch of the latest stuff here is general WebGUI8 perf stuff	18:01
@Haarg	more ->get() conversions, make_immutable, speeding up some properties stuff for immutable classes, a couple other things	18:02
@Haarg	also perlDreamer i'd like to change ->get to use ->can instead of ->meta->find_attribute_by_name.	18:03
@Haarg	it's slightly less safe but a pretty large performance hit	18:03
+perlDreamer	hit = better performance for ->can vs ->find_attribute_by_name ?	18:04
@Haarg	err, yeah	18:04
@Haarg	stated that a bit wrong :)	18:04
+perlDreamer	I'm not opposed to that change	18:04
+bartjol	anyone here with strange functionality of the admin bar lately?	18:11
+bartjol	a client of rory was kicked out when adding an article and I had a problem, that the divisions didn't open on click	18:12
+bartjol	We were wondering whether it might be a YUI 2.8 compatibility problem	18:13
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rea5e82b / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/Cron.pm): Make sure that we can start a workflow via a cron job. Fixes bugs #11444 and #10189 - http://bit.ly/d7tUXz	18:15
+perlDreamer	I haven't had any problems with the admin bar, unless the helpdesk is on the page that I'm working on	18:15
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r18b679d / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/Cron.pm): Make sure that we can start a workflow via a cron job. Fixes bugs #11444 and #10189 - http://bit.ly/b9wXWi	18:16
+bartjol	mmmm	18:16
+bartjol	testing my problem	18:18
+perlDreamer	Haarg, would it cause problems if I started porting bug fixes by hand to WebGUI8 branch?	18:19
+perlDreamer	or is it easier to merge them en masse?	18:19
@Haarg	merging i would say	18:20
@preaction	i'd say easier to merge en masse	18:20
+perlDreamer	okay	18:20
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r6329abb / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm): Check for lack of existence of an asset before logging an error. Fixes bug #11526 - http://bit.ly/diOUq6	18:22
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc8414be / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm): Check for lack of existence of an asset before logging an error. Fixes bug #11526 - http://bit.ly/aMUQ4h	18:22
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+bartjol	mmm, cant reproduce in 7.9.2 (orig 7.8.17)	18:28
+perlDreamer	can you reproduce it in 7.8.17?	18:31
+bartjol	lemme have a look	18:31
+bartjol	adding site.....	18:34
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r54583d2 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum.pm : Fix a POD whitespace problem. - http://bit.ly/b5D5rx	18:37
+bartjol	nope, well it was friday when I saw it after a day of upgrading and migrating	18:38
+perlDreamer	and beer?	18:38
+bartjol	nope, the migration and upgrade from 7.7.21 to latest stable (migration was twice, one from the old server in production to the upgrade server and then a second migration to the new server)	18:39
+bartjol	that makes bart a dull boi	18:39
+bartjol	perlDreamer: I've got a quicky for you	18:41
+perlDreamer	okay :)	18:41
+bartjol	mmm	18:41
+bartjol	type a perl installClass	18:41
+bartjol	in WebGUI/sbin	18:41
+bartjol	and it shows a installAsset use command	18:42
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc0361fd / t/Asset/Asset.t : Remove test for old RSS method that no longer exists. - http://bit.ly/cfeTJH	18:42
+bartjol	in the POD	18:42
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+perlDreamer	bartjol: like this -> perl installClass.pl WebGUI::Asset::NothingMuch --configFile=mywebgui.conf	18:43
+bartjol	no like perl installClass.pl --help	18:44
+bartjol	or without the --help	18:44
+perlDreamer	oh, okay	18:44
+perlDreamer	is the usage statement wrong?	18:45
+bartjol	yes (installClass eq installAsset)	18:46
+bartjol	which gives 0 or no	18:47
+perlDreamer	or undef or '' or () ;)	18:47
+bartjol	exactly	18:47
+bartjol	:)	18:47
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd26a3dc / sbin/installClass.pl : Fix bad POD in the installClass utility script - http://bit.ly/aVELdz	18:48
+bartjol	oh and Rory and myself were wondering whether there is a specific reason why there isn't a --install option, mostlt for consistency	18:49
+perlDreamer	No idea, bartjol	18:50
+bartjol	people will manage, but it could be clearer	18:50
+perlDreamer	you could ask the author on that one	18:50
+bartjol	aah, that would be preaction	18:52
@preaction	because the script itself is called "installClass". the default thing to do is install something. i do not want to type all that crap out	18:53
+bartjol	fair enough, but /me believes the POD could be clearer on not needing to specifying an argument	18:54
+bartjol	but maybe /me is nagging	18:54
+perlDreamer	bartjol: patches welcome ? :)	18:54
+bartjol	ah	18:54
@preaction	indeed	18:54
+bartjol	np	18:54
+perlDreamer	just give us a paste here, and I'll slap it right in	18:55
+bartjol	indeed, I am nagging, or indeed, the POD could be better? ;)	18:55
+perlDreamer	both :D	18:55
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r033b4d7 / lib/WebGUI/Paths.pm : fix WebGUI::Paths recursion - http://bit.ly/dcbfGd	18:58
+bartjol	=item class	19:00
+bartjol	The class name of the class to install. Something like WebGUI::Asset::Yourasset	19:00
+bartjol	To install a class, only the classname and configuration file are needed. For	19:00
+bartjol	other functionality, see the options.	19:00
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r9c613ab / lib/WebGUI/Paths.pm : more WebGUI::Paths fixes - http://bit.ly/cTI3X5	19:02
@Haarg	perlDreamer, the merge that happened when you updated after the forced update i did on WebGUI8 was bad, so i removed it (another forced update)	19:03
+bartjol	or http://webgui.pastebin.com/RLK6pCqp for the complete script	19:03
+perlDreamer	Haarg, bad? Why?	19:04
+perlDreamer	I thought I was fixing merge problem, not creating them...	19:05
@Haarg	it merged in your changes, which was in effect reverting some things	19:05
@Haarg	do you have rebase turned on for pulls on WebGUI8?	19:05
+perlDreamer	how would I check?	19:06
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@Haarg	in .git/config	19:06
@Haarg	in the [branch "WebGUI8"] section	19:06
@Haarg	well	19:06
@Haarg	git config branch.WebGUI8.rebase	19:06
+perlDreamer	yes,I do have that turned on	19:07
@Haarg	hmm	19:07
@Haarg	i'm not sure then	19:07
@Haarg	can you try updating now?	19:07
+perlDreamer	I'm in the middle of a bunch of bug fixes that need to be backported to webgui-7.8	19:07
+perlDreamer	but soon :)	19:07
@Haarg	ok	19:07
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb4f7bb4 / (6 files in 3 dirs): Do not prevent Assets from being added as children by subclassing addChild. It doesn't prevent paste from working. Fixes bug #11525. - http://bit.ly/buk7BM	19:08
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r5cc2156 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum.pm : Fix a POD whitespace problem. - http://bit.ly/9hq02M	19:09
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r72a78e4 / sbin/installClass.pl : Fix bad POD in the installClass utility script - http://bit.ly/9dd45Y	19:10
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3489f5c / (6 files in 3 dirs): Do not prevent Assets from being added as children by subclassing addChild. It doesn't prevent paste from working. Fixes bug #11525. - http://bit.ly/9G38cq	19:10
+perlDreamer	okay, updating	19:11
+perlDreamer	Haarg: http://gist.github.com/371220	19:12
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r318b6e0 / (7 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into WebGUI8 - http://bit.ly/bTwfWU	19:12
@Haarg	:(	19:13
@Haarg	that's the bad commit i'm trying to get rid of	19:13
@Haarg	git pull	19:15
@Haarg	git reset --hard HEAD^	19:15
+perlDreamer	okey doke	19:15
+perlDreamer	now what?	19:16
@Haarg	git log --oneline	19:16
@Haarg	what are the top few commits?	19:16
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/371225	19:17
@Haarg	ok	19:17
@Haarg	should be good to go now	19:17
+perlDreamer	git pull ?	19:17
@Haarg	you can. it won't pull down anything new.	19:17
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, how does one handle WebGUI::Paths?	19:35
@Haarg	WebGUI/lib needs to be in your @INC somehow. the simplest way is to set PERL5LIB for command line stuff	19:36
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@preaction	perlDreamer: i put this in my main httpd.conf (not part of any VirtualHost) PerlSwitches -I/data/WebGUI/lib�	19:38
@preaction	er... without the �	19:38
+perlDreamer	I'd be happy if command line worked as a start	19:39
+perlDreamer	Couldn't load class (Config::JSON) because: Global symbol "%Config" requires explicit package name at /usr/share/perl/5.10/File/Copy.pm line 100	19:39
@Haarg	what version of Config::JSON are you using?	19:40
@preaction	anyone got the env vars they use to set up App::Nopaste to use Gist? i can't find them	19:40
+perlDreamer	NOPASTE_SERVICES=Gist Pastebin	19:40
+perlDreamer	1.3.1	19:41
@Haarg	WebGUI8 requires 1.5	19:41
+perlDreamer	well....	19:42
+perlDreamer	I got the error that I posted from trying to run testEnvironment.pl --simpleReport	19:42
@Haarg	perlDreamer, have you updated Config::JSON yet? if not, can you try something for me?	19:44
+perlDreamer	I have not updated it yet	19:45
@Haarg	install Devel::SimpleTrace if you don't have it	19:47
@Haarg	and run perl -MDevel::SimpleTrace testEnvironment.pl --simpleReport	19:47
+perlDreamer	the problem was that I set PERL5LIB to /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI	19:47
@Haarg	still a strange error	19:48
+perlDreamer	you want me to do that anyway?	19:49
@Haarg	yeah, would be good	19:49
+perlDreamer	no stack trace, just standard testEnvironment.pl output	19:51
@Haarg	did you fix PERL5LIB already?	19:52
+perlDreamer	yes	19:52
+perlDreamer	I'll break it and try again	19:52
+perlDreamer	hm	19:53
+perlDreamer	looks like perl is loading WebGUI::Config in preference to Config	19:53
+perlDreamer	so %Config doesn't exist	19:53
@Haarg	ahh	19:54
@Haarg	makes more sense then	19:54
+perlDreamer	there are only 14 failing tests in the Test::Class tests now	19:55
+perlDreamer	I want to find some kind of deliniation between Test::Class tests, and other tests	19:56
+perlDreamer	there are some things that don't need to be tested in every class, like getDefault	19:57
@preaction	anyone got time to test out the new CHI stuff?	20:00
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rd46f77b / (3 files in 2 dirs): more work on admin console - http://bit.ly/cfnUZb	20:01
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r5cdde20 / lib/WebGUI/Session.pm : initial CHI implementation - http://bit.ly/9086qT	20:01
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r30e2a85 / lib/WebGUI/Session.pm : finished adding CHI - http://bit.ly/cuaCD9	20:01
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r9015df5 / etc/WebGUI.conf.original : added new cache to original conf - http://bit.ly/b1TkOT	20:01
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * ref89051 / var/upgrades/upgrade_7.9.3-8.0.0.pl : added new cache to upgrade - http://bit.ly/aaRrxC	20:01
+perlDreamer	no tests?	20:01
@preaction	if you don't do a full wgd reset, you'll have to add the following stuff to your config file:	20:01
@preaction	not yet, no	20:01
@Haarg	oh, perlDreamer, if you haven't already you'll want to update to the latest wgdev from git	20:01
+perlDreamer	thanks, Haarg. I'll do that	20:02
+perlDreamer	although, wgd reset seems to be doing the right thing so far	20:02
@preaction	http://gist.github.com/371295 <- the new config to use	20:03
+perlDreamer	-8 tests	20:22
+perlDreamer	preaction: what's the minimum recommended version of CHI?	20:23
@preaction	the current version, 0.34 i think. i'm working on adding it to testEnvironment.pl right now	20:24
+perlDreamer	preaction: POD for Session->cache needs to be updated	20:29
@preaction	yes	20:29
@preaction	i'm ripping out the other bits of cache from other parts of codebase (setbyhttp, and other helper methods)	20:29
+perlDreamer	I'll get the POD piece then	20:31
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rcd0fbf8 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove subclassed methods validParent and addChild from GalleryFile and Gallery. - http://bit.ly/bm25rE	20:32
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rff1cd9f / lib/WebGUI/Session.pm : Update Session POD for CHI. - http://bit.ly/cFvfcA	20:32
+perlDreamer	preaction: according to t/run_assets.t, bad breakage	20:35
@preaction	yeah, there's some breaking, i'm fixing as much as i can find right now	20:35
+perlDreamer	Haarg, do you know why the skipNotification property was removed from Asset.pm?	20:43
+perlDreamer	I mean, was it part of the merge, or was it a fix for a problem, or something else?	20:43
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@preaction	it was removed because it's duplicated in the Subscribable role. it should only be part of assets that do Subscribable	20:46
+perlDreamer	but there are assets that do their own notification	20:46
@Haarg	it looks like the state of it in master is kind of messed up	20:47
@Haarg	it doesn't exist in definition anywhere	20:47
@preaction	perlDreamer: how does t/run_asset.t work?	20:47
+perlDreamer	no, it's handled outside of definition	20:47
@preaction	it's not working for me, gives me "Can't stat tests: No such file or directory"	20:47
+perlDreamer	preaction: it loads all of the tests in the tests directory, ala Test::Class	20:48
@preaction	right, but i don't have a tests directory for some reaosn	20:48
+perlDreamer	Haarg, do you have a tests directory?	20:48
@Haarg	t/tests/ yes	20:49
@preaction	does run_asset.t expect me to be in the t/ directory?	20:50
+perlDreamer	yes	20:50
@preaction	that would explain it then	20:50
+perlDreamer	back to skipNotification. It wasn't ever in the Definition	20:50
+perlDreamer	I had to add it to Asset.pm	20:50
+perlDreamer	there are Assets that handle skipNotification without using the Subscribable aspect/role	20:51
+perlDreamer	they should, but don't yet	20:52
+perlDreamer	so it needs to be there until that reworking is done	20:52
+perlDreamer	pulling it out breaks the Gallery and the CS	20:52
@Haarg	well, it got removed from Subscribable too	20:53
+perlDreamer	that's because the way it was implemented in Subscribable duplicated the exact database column name and property in the assetData table/class	20:54
+perlDreamer	and didn't work right	20:54
+perlDreamer	when I fixed that bug, I pulled the code out of Subscribable, and made it use all the correct code from Asset	20:54
+perlDreamer	the "right" way would be to now, pull the code out of Asset, put it over into Subscribable, move the database column as well, refactor all the Assets to use it.	20:56
+perlDreamer	but until that's done, we need to put it back the same (odd) way that it was	20:57
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r43413fe / (lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm lib/WebGUI/AssetVersioning.pm): Put back the skipNotification property into Asset. - http://bit.ly/aLa4b5	21:01
kimd	Hey guys, how do I find the right form when testing with Test::WWW::Mechanize if it does not have a name?	21:05
kimd	I want to test the GalleryAlbum edit screen. Unfortunately, there is a search form in the beginning. And then there is the edit form I want to test.	21:05
kimd	Of course, I could select the second form. But what if the template changes?	21:05
+perlDreamer	kimd, exactly	21:06
kimd	Hardcode using the second form?	21:06
+perlDreamer	so, you could take each form one by one and check it for the right fields	21:06
+perlDreamer	or, we update the template so that the forms are named	21:06
kimd	Hm. That certainly requires some perl magic I am not capable of. But I will try...	21:06
kimd	That would be even better!	21:07
+perlDreamer	yes, so do I	21:07
+perlDreamer	make sure the names are very, very unique	21:07
kimd	Is it possible to assign names using the standard forms?	21:07
kimd	What about "GalleryAlbum-Search-Form" and "GalleryAlbum-Edit-Form"?	21:08
kimd	Or rather all in camelCase?	21:08
+perlDreamer	camelCase	21:08
+perlDreamer	we should follow the standards set by The Template Working Gropu	21:09
+perlDreamer	Group	21:09
kimd	That means "galleryAlbumSearchForm"?	21:09
+perlDreamer	yes	21:09
kimd	Cool. Thanks for helping out!	21:10
+perlDreamer	You said the magic word...	21:10
kimd	Hey guys?	21:11
+perlDreamer	... tests	21:11
kimd	:-)	21:11
kimd	Tatatatah! My first live test using Test::WWW::Mechanize is complete and working as supposed to!	21:28
kimd	But it's damn slow.	21:28
kimd	I can click much faster than the testing functions.	21:28
+perlDreamer	yes, but you won't have to do it every week before I release a new version of WebGUI	21:29
kimd	You should hire a testing monkey in order to speed up everything.	21:30
kimd	Maybe I could train my daughter?	21:30
+perlDreamer	she'd probably get bored and hack WebGUI	21:31
+perlDreamer	safer to use actual monkeys	21:31
kimd	I believe we have some at Novartis. I will ask at the stable tomorrow.	21:32
kimd	Btw, how would you name the addArchive form?	21:32
kimd	Also "galleryAlbumEditForm"?	21:32
+perlDreamer	galleryAlbumAddArchive	21:32
+perlDreamer	different form, different name	21:32
kimd	And the edit form if it is in "add" mode?	21:33
+perlDreamer	galleryAlbumEditArchive	21:34
kimd	Archive?	21:34
kimd	I meant the regular edit view.	21:35
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kimd	But think I got it.	21:35
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kimd	Btw, wouldn't that be something for the best practices guide to require naming of forms in general?	21:37
+perlDreamer	Yes, it probably should be.	21:39
+perlDreamer	It would be best to make a posting on The Template Working Group forum	21:39
kimd	But that is a code issue, isn't it? Naming of forms has to happen upon calling of Form::formHeader.	21:40
kimd	Apart from that I am not allowed to post in that forum. At least I was not in the past...	21:42
* kimd is getting a refill for his glass of wine.		21:43
+perlDreamer	kimd, you're right, over 90% of the forms are generated via perl code	21:44
+perlDreamer	I was thinking that since it's HTML, we should check with them on naming conventions and the like, and add it to the Template Best Practices guide.	21:45
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* perlDreamer goes for a run to clear his head		21:54
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kimd	preaction, I am having a caching issue here. Rotating photos is working perfectly fine. However, the browser doesn't realize that the photo has changed. Is there a way to enforce a reload?	22:23
@preaction	you should be making a new revision. that will create a new storage location. then you rotate the photo in the new storage location. that way the user can revert if something goes wrong (even though we don't support that yet)	22:24
kimd	Hm. Creating a new storage location will change the URL and will cause the browser to reload. Correct?	22:26
@preaction	yep	22:26
kimd	So, what I have to do is "my $versionTag = WebGUI::VersionTag->getWorking($session);"	22:27
kimd	Clond the storage location and rotate the photos.	22:27
kimd	Finally, I commit by $verstionTag->commit; ?	22:27
@preaction	yes	22:27
kimd	Clone, of course	22:27
@preaction	actually, requestCommit	22:27
+patspam	awesome: http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?Dist::Zilla::Plugin::MetaNoIndex	22:27
kimd	Hey, WebGUI is so simple (and yet powerful).	22:28
@preaction	and mak... god fucking damnit	22:28
+patspam	JT is in on Dist::Zilla	22:28
@preaction	kimd: look at the code in GalleryAlbum->addArchive, that will show you how to do it properly (you have to set some variables in the version tag, the photo will have to be properly approved)	22:28
kimd	Don't curse! You are endangering your salvation.	22:28
kimd	I will. Thanks!	22:29
@preaction	oh, my salvation was a foregone conclusion a looooong time ago	22:29
kimd	Prefer to go to hell or heaven?	22:29
@preaction	perlDreamer: i'm not seeing where any of the run_asset.t tests are being caused by CHI. did you add the appropriate config stuff? (or reset -d)?	22:30
@preaction	kimd: doesn't matter which i prefer, i will be burning with the rest of them (or at least purgatory, being a virtuous non-believer)	22:30
@preaction	no, wait, not purgatory, limbo.	22:30
kimd	Hey, you are my men. We will burn together.	22:31
kimd	man	22:31
kimd	Before we burn - one more question :-)	22:38
@preaction	k, shoot	22:38
kimd	Is call to setStorageLocation without arguments sufficient?	22:38
kimd	Or should I rotate the photo and call setFile afterwards.	22:39
@preaction	no, addRevision should handle creating the new storage location for you automatically. see WebGUI::Asset::File->addRevision	22:39
kimd	Ok.	22:39
kimd	Found it. So the order is: 1. Create version tag, 2. Adopt commital workflow of parent, 3. Add revision, 4. Rotate photo, 5. Request commit?	22:41
@preaction	sounds right to me	22:41
kimd	Good. I will try that. (Did I ever say WebGUI is easy?)	22:41
@preaction	yes, but i don't believe you	22:42
kimd	It is always the same. You need an expert you can ask. How long do estimate would it have taken me to find out by myself.	22:43
kimd	?	22:43
@preaction	you wouldn't have, until you committed your code and i reviewed it and explained it	22:43
kimd	That is quite a pessimistic view, isn't it?	22:44
@preaction	or, before, if you were given a commit bit already (back when we were on SVN), you would have committed it and colin or I would have to clean it up	22:44
@preaction	no, that's optimistic compared to what it used to be	22:44
@preaction	ex: the Calendar does (or did) a lot of very bad constructs, because I saw them in old, bad parts of WebGUI and assumed they were correct	22:44
kimd	preaction, pod for addRevision says that I should use update instead.	22:47