WebGUI irc logs from: 2010-03.log

--- Log opened Mon Mar 01 00:00:51 2010
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SDuensin_	Greetings.	16:31
+bartjol	morning	16:33
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SDuensin_	AH HA! Got rid of him!	16:38
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Diggy	hi, folks. hope at least 1 webgui dev is here	17:27
SDuensin	Probably more like a dozen.	17:27
Diggy	Q - are there any plans to produce an up-to-date webgui VM?	17:27
Diggy	a dozen! yikes	17:28
Diggy	perhaps a VM for the 7.8 series?	17:29
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SDuensin	Hey perlDreamer!	17:29
+perlDreamer	bartjol, you are excused from all current, future and past comments about LOI	17:29
SDuensin	Diggy has a good question...	17:29
+perlDreamer	Diggy, what's your question this morning?	17:30
SDuensin	Any chance of the VM being updated for 7.8?	17:30
Diggy	about plans for an updated webgui VM	17:30
Diggy	last vm was done in early '09, IIRC	17:30
bartjol	perlDreamer: so no more info needed, too bad...	17:30
+perlDreamer	the VM can be updated manually by downloading the current one and running the webgui updater	17:30
+perlDreamer	bartjol, what's the red thing?	17:31
bartjol	an expension barrel for the heating	17:31
Diggy	unfortunately, my attempts at updating it have failed	17:31
SDuensin	Diggy - Oh? How so?	17:31
+perlDreamer	how are you updating it, Diggy?	17:31
+perlDreamer	and what errors do you get?	17:31
Diggy	with the wre. it's been a while since i last tried	17:31
+perlDreamer	you can only update via the WRE if you stay up to date with it	17:32
Diggy	again, apologies, as it's been a while since i tried to upgrade	17:32
+perlDreamer	otherwise, you have to manually download and upgrade	17:32
+perlDreamer	it wouldn't hurt us to update that, though	17:33
SDuensin	You should be able to run the webguiupdate script and then the testEnvironment script.	17:33
+perlDreamer	SD, not really	17:33
SDuensin	No?	17:33
+perlDreamer	webguiupdate is not smart enough to stop at the right points	17:33
+perlDreamer	it downloads the latest and greatest and tries that	17:33
+perlDreamer	which will fail miserably	17:33
Diggy	i did use the script. IRC channel users helped me, but in the end, failure :-(	17:33
* SDuensin sighs		17:33
+perlDreamer	so, if you start at 7.6.32	17:33
+perlDreamer	you update to 7.6.35	17:33
+perlDreamer	then 7.7.33	17:34
+perlDreamer	then 7.8.13	17:34
SDuensin	Glad I had this little talk prior to going to 7.8.x. :-)	17:34
bartjol	ah, scott, you need some other talks?	17:34
+perlDreamer	I wonder if the wiki has that little gem of info	17:34
+perlDreamer	there is an open bug to fix that	17:34
SDuensin	bartjol, I need all the help I can get. :-D	17:35
Diggy	are you recommending that i try that sequence?	17:35
+perlDreamer	Diggy, sure	17:35
+perlDreamer	also, Diggy, would you please file a bug about updating the VM?	17:35
Diggy	ok. will try (as soon as time permits :-) ), and report back	17:36
+perlDreamer	that will raise it to the attention of the proper people	17:36
Diggy	sure, i'll file a bug report	17:36
Diggy	thanks, and ttfn	17:36
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SDuensin	There's too many interesting cool package formats out there. I want WebGUI in all of them for people!	17:37
SDuensin	VMware appliance, OpenVZ template, that application standard thing - not to mention the usual DEB, RPM, etc.	17:37
+perlDreamer	bartjol, in the -930 picture, what are all those pipes for?	17:42
+perlDreamer	doesn't a sink have hot, cold, and drain, and that's it?	17:42
bartjol	eeeh, i'll have a look	17:43
bartjol	and then make fun of you	17:44
* perlDreamer braces for public humiliation		17:44
bartjol	well, that's my heating thingy	17:44
+perlDreamer	so that's not the bottom of the sink	17:45
+perlDreamer	makes much more sense	17:45
bartjol	so it has to have piping for gas, cold water (in), warm water (out) heating in and out	17:45
bartjol	yeah	17:45
* perlDreamer will take the children to school, and ponder more		17:45
bartjol	955 is the sink	17:45
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+perlDreamer	bartjol: I knew that 955 was the sink, but 930 looks like it's from the same place, in the corner	17:57
bartjol	it is more just above 952	18:00
bartjol	or better maybe: http://www.bartjol.nl/home/fotoalbums/fortos/klus20091116/dsc00678	18:01
+perlDreamer	ah, yes	18:06
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+perlDreamer	we have one of those tankless water heaters, too	18:12
+perlDreamer	very efficient	18:12
SDuensin	Database design hurts my head.	18:15
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r587f080 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Subscribable aspect should propagate result of purge, instead of always returning false. Fixes bug #11446 - http://bit.ly/97WdkX	18:31
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb462ce0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Subscribable aspect should propagate result of purge, instead of always returning false. Fixes bug #11446 - http://bit.ly/bSzWKC	18:31
+perlDreamer	preaction: ping	18:42
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+perlDreamer	patspam, you up for a dev level idea bouncing talk?	18:45
+patspam	shoot	18:45
+perlDreamer	it's the spectre bug	18:46
+perlDreamer	with the mail workflow	18:46
+patspam	got the number on hand?	18:46
+perlDreamer	two of them	18:46
+perlDreamer	this is the "latest" one: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11444	18:46
+perlDreamer	and here's the historical one: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/10189	18:47
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+patspam	yep, I've experienced that too	18:49
+perlDreamer	okay, so this is my theory	18:49
+perlDreamer	Spectre recognizes that it's time to run the cron job	18:49
+perlDreamer	and calls www_runCronJob in Operation/Cron	18:49
+perlDreamer	www_runCronJob builds an instance of the workflow	18:50
+perlDreamer	and tries to talk to spectre	18:50
+perlDreamer	but it can't	18:50
+perlDreamer	the instance is NEVER cleaned up	18:50
+perlDreamer	so it sits in the db, blocking all further invocations, since it's a singleton workflow	18:50
+perlDreamer	the core problem seems to be that the return value of $instance->start(1) is not checked	18:51
+patspam	I've never really trawled through the spectre code, but that sounds reasonable	18:52
+perlDreamer	I'll see if I can outfit a few sites with some test code, and then disable their spectre restart cron cobs	18:53
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+perlDreamer	if this is right, there's about 1 day of spectre relating hacking that needs to be done	19:00
+perlDreamer	since none of the spectre comm code returns a status	19:00
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+patspam	sorry, doing some bug triaging here too	19:03
+patspam	the kind where people report something, and then when you look everything appears perfectly fine	19:04
bartjol	but I thought Martin made spectre, how can there be errors?	19:04
+perlDreamer	I thought JT wrote spectre, and that Martin just named it	19:05
bartjol	mmm, that might be, explains a lot :)	19:05
+perlDreamer	;)	19:05
+perlDreamer	patspam, I hate those kinds of bugs	19:06
+perlDreamer	we had one of those today	19:06
+perlDreamer	with deleting a wiki	19:06
+perlDreamer	if you delete a wiki and purge it, it works fine	19:06
+perlDreamer	but try deleting a page containing a wiki, and it's not	19:06
bartjol	but it's laundry time, I am even looking forward to it	19:06
+patspam	fun	19:06
+perlDreamer	martien, kimd, faxioman have definitely joined elnino in the bug reporting elite	19:07
+perlDreamer	they are thoughtful, detailed, and patient	19:07
+patspam	yeah that's awesome	19:07
+patspam	I wish my clients were like that	19:07
bartjol	actually testing, instead of getting back a year later with a mention that "it is all broken"	19:08
bartjol	that'd be nice	19:08
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@Haarg	perlDreamer, the getCache asset method can't be merged into webgui 8 directly. i was thinking of replacing it with a getViewCacheKey method.	19:26
+perlDreamer	why can't it be merged?	19:27
+perlDreamer	also, I thought getCache was a session method	19:28
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc0d45e0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove workarounds in WeatherData. Fixes bug #11401. - http://bit.ly/drRnhH	19:58
@Haarg	it can't be merged because it returns a cache object with a specific key. but you don't construct a cache object per key anymore.	20:00
+perlDreamer	patspam: the TAP modules required by the Survey cannot be installed piecemeal, correct? You have to fully upgrade to Test::Harness 3.x	20:01
+perlDreamer	Haarg, it sounds like it can be removed, and replace by session->getCache	20:02
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* perlDreamer goes out for errands		20:34
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+perlDreamer	well, at least the guts of Asset->getCache could be removed.	21:40
@Haarg	getting rid of the duplicate code is a good idea, it's just that the cache api is going to be very different. which is why i was thinking getViewCacheKey.	21:42
@Haarg	although it would be better if the cache api was finalized	21:42
@Haarg	we could have $asset->computeViewCache(sub { }, $timeout)	21:43
@Haarg	or something along those lines	21:43
+perlDreamer	anyway we can abstract that out, and keep it insultated from this change, and future changes, will help	21:44
@Haarg	does computeViewCache sound like a good idea? or would there be a better name for it?	21:45
@Haarg	or does getViewCacheKey sound like a better approach?	21:46
+perlDreamer	if it's returning a key, it should have that in the name	21:46
+perlDreamer	so I vote for getViewCacheKey	21:46
@Haarg	well, computeViewCache would be returning the cache data	21:46
@Haarg	or calling the sub if there was no cache data	21:47
@Haarg	and storing the return from the sub in the cache	21:47
+perlDreamer	yes, but in some view methods getCache is used to grab a cache object to stuff data into it	21:48
+perlDreamer	not just access what might (or might not) be there	21:48
@Haarg	i'm not sure i follow. that is exactly the case i am talking about.	21:48
@Haarg	with computeViewCache, it would first try to get the cache data and return it if it was available	21:49
@Haarg	if it wasn't, it would call the sub that was passed in to generate the needed output, then store that in the cache and return it	21:49
+perlDreamer	ah, I missed the last part	21:49
+perlDreamer	and the method used to generate the needed output would not be $self->view, but $self->view minus the permission checks, cache code, etc.	21:50
@Haarg	yeah, basically	21:51
+perlDreamer	seems odd to push down one level like that. Almost like we could replace prepareView with that, or something	21:55
+perlDreamer	Haarg: how do I make a clone of the metaclass-roles branch to try and tinker with it?	22:02
@Haarg	do you have my repo as a remote?	22:02
+perlDreamer	yes	22:02
+perlDreamer	but this: git checkout -b metaclass-roles --track haarg/metaclass-roles	22:03
+perlDreamer	does this: fatal: git checkout: updating paths is incompatible with switching branches	22:03
@Haarg	what about just git checkout -t haarg/metaclass-roles	22:03
@Haarg	?	22:03
+perlDreamer	same thing	22:04
@Haarg	git --version	22:04
+perlDreamer	1.6.3.3	22:04
@Haarg	git remote update	22:05
+perlDreamer	updated, but the checkout still doesn't work	22:06
+perlDreamer	maybe I misconfigured the remote?	22:06
@Haarg	git branch -r \| grep haarg	22:06
+perlDreamer	haarg/bart-i18n	22:06
@Haarg	git remote haarg \| nopaste	22:07
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/318755	22:08
@Haarg	git fetch haarg	22:09
+perlDreamer	k	22:09
@Haarg	i'm really not sure why it isn't updating	22:09
+perlDreamer	I'll go running and see if maybe it's some github transient issue	22:10
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+perlDreamer	haarg, I figured it out	23:55
@Haarg	oh?	23:56
+perlDreamer	when I created the remote, I used the -t switch	23:56
+perlDreamer	it would only use the bart-i18n branch	23:56
+perlDreamer	so I dropped that remote and added a new one	23:56
@Haarg	ah	23:56
@Haarg	making an attempt at merging master into WebGUI8	23:57
+perlDreamer	good luck	23:58
--- Day changed Tue Mar 02 2010
+perlDreamer	mlri's server, server36	00:25
+perlDreamer	every config file has that in it	00:25
@preaction	perlDreamer: the ^StorageUrl(); macro can be given a storageId and will return a URL (for use in SQLReports and the like)	00:37
+perlDreamer	really?!	00:37
@preaction	yep	00:37
@preaction	it's even got some nice config options for various things	00:38
+perlDreamer	must be time for me to review all the macros again	00:38
+perlDreamer	what if there are multiple files in the storage location, though?	00:40
@preaction	it grabs the first one fsvo first	00:41
@preaction	perlbot fsvo	00:42
@preaction	perlbot fsvo is For Some Value Of	00:42
@preaction	perlbot botsnack	00:42
@preaction	perlbot fsvo	00:42
@preaction	... wtf	00:42
@preaction	perlbot, fsvo	00:42
perlbot	preaction: For Some Value Of	00:42
@preaction	ah	00:43
+perlDreamer	the first one "asciibetically", according to the POD ;)	00:44
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reea83d5 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix macro issues, missing FilePump, HASH entry. Fixes bug #11449. - http://bit.ly/9TSsZJ	01:02
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r9256928 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix macro issues, missing FilePump, HASH entry. Fixes bug #11449. - http://bit.ly/dmMdVC	01:04
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* perlDreamer has to go pick up the kids from school, back in 30		01:17
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+perlDreamer	Haarg: http://gist.github.com/318965	02:07
+perlDreamer	it's almost like we have different versions of Moose installed	02:09
+perlDreamer	those subs don't exist, and the options have different names	02:09
+perlDreamer	this one's cleaner, and has more option corrections http://gist.github.com/318976	02:21
+perlDreamer	I love the Moose stack trace, but it would be so much nicer if the reference were pretty printed	02:36
+perlDreamer	Haarg: this patch gets all the way down into the Shortcut asset, then dies due to a missing fieldType in a property http://gist.github.com/318994	02:44
+perlDreamer	the fieldType is defined in the property, and it's the first one called so it seems like someplace the fieldType is getting lost	02:44
+perlDreamer	I think the problem is Definition::Meta::Class, _build_property_metaclass	03:11
+perlDreamer	it's not setting the property metaclass correctly	03:11
+perlDreamer	this causes everything to be stuck inside form	03:11
+perlDreamer	and not get to the property, which then complains about not getting a fieldType	03:11
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I got it!	03:28
+perlDreamer	I'll paste a patch after dinner	03:28
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+perlDreamer	Haarg: http://gist.github.com/319042	04:02
+perlDreamer	the last piece was, inside add_property, it was calling $prop_meta->meta	04:02
@Haarg	where are you seeing the for vs for_class change needed?	04:02
+perlDreamer	in the calls to the Utility methods	04:02
+perlDreamer	it's in the patch	04:03
@Haarg	looks like it should just be for given the Moose::Util::MetaRole docs	04:03
@Haarg	what version of Moose do you have installed?	04:04
+perlDreamer	0.93	04:04
@Haarg	i have 0.98	04:04
+perlDreamer	let's change testEnvironment.pl, and I'll upgrade to your version	04:05
+perlDreamer	with that change, the only change needed should be removing the inherited is from Meta::Property::Asset	04:06
+perlDreamer	and the $prop_meta->meta thing	04:06
+perlDreamer	I wonder if that's going to happen everywhere the sub names were different	04:08
+perlDreamer	and option names	04:08
@Haarg	option names?	04:08
+perlDreamer	metaclass_roles vs class_metaroles	04:09
@Haarg	http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Moose-0.98/lib/Moose/Util/MetaRole.pm	04:09
+perlDreamer	we're going to have to watch Moose very carefully	04:10
+perlDreamer	okay, now I'm getting exactly what you said earlier	04:18
+perlDreamer	the property meta isn't being set correctly for Assets	04:18
@Haarg	what happens with your full patch applied but the new moose version?	04:18
+perlDreamer	don't know	04:20
+perlDreamer	massive chaos, since the sub names and options are all from the earlier version	04:20
+perlDreamer	that's what I would guess	04:20
@Haarg	the earlier stuff all still works	04:21
@Haarg	i'm trying to finish up this section of the merge i'm working on so i can test stuff out.	04:21
@Haarg	perlDreamer, i applied your patch and it fails with the tableName problem	04:42
+perlDreamer	that's running t/Definition/Asset.t	05:02
@Haarg	yes	05:03
+perlDreamer	Definition's init_meta gets called after Definition:Asset's init_meta	05:06
+perlDreamer	unless that's a testing artifact	05:07
@Haarg	Definition::Asset->init_meta calls Definition->init_meta	05:08
+perlDreamer	yes, but it's getting called a 2nd time somehow	05:10
+perlDreamer	and when it gets called the 2nd time, it's overwriting the applied classes, removing the ones set up by WebGUI::Definition::Asset	05:13
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Definition is a role	05:29
+perlDreamer	and it's used by Definition::Asset;	05:30
+perlDreamer	I think it's applying the init_meta to every class that uses Definition::Asset	05:30
+perlDreamer	so that it gets called	05:30
+perlDreamer	so it calls Definition::Asset, which calls Definition and then does it's specific configuration	05:30
+perlDreamer	then it calls Definition's init_meta again, and that overwrites the base role and metaroles	05:31
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elnino	hi!	05:52
elnino	when you put in multiple anchors in an article, is there a GUI way to link to it from another article?	05:53
elnino	does that make sense?	05:55
+perlDreamer	it does, but there's no GUI way to link to any of them	05:55
+perlDreamer	not that I know of	05:55
elnino	ok. I didn't think so, but thought I'd ask anyway	05:56
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, the second call to WebGUI::Definition->init_meta is being provided by Moose::Exporter	08:08
+perlDreamer	it's like it's calling init_meta up the stack	08:08
+perlDreamer	using linearized_isa	08:08
@Haarg	well, it can't be that because there is no inheritance	08:09
@Haarg	it's probably the 'with'	08:09
@Haarg	sorry, 'also'	08:10
+perlDreamer	removing also removes the sugar	08:13
+perlDreamer	what I don't get is that we have an init_meta inside WG::D::A	08:13
+perlDreamer	so why do we get 2?	08:13
+perlDreamer	it's there because it's a role	08:33
@Haarg	because what is a role?	08:33
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Definition	08:34
@Haarg	not realy	08:34
+perlDreamer	with no inheritance, how else could there be two of them?	08:34
@Haarg	two of what?	08:34
+perlDreamer	init_meta methods	08:35
@Haarg	WebGUI::Definition's gets called because of the 'also'	08:36
@Haarg	and because we explicitly call it	08:36
+perlDreamer	I'm shot	08:41
+perlDreamer	I'm going to call it a night.	08:41
@Haarg	i've been confusing myself some	08:41
@Haarg	paying attention to how the role is applied to the metaclass	08:42
@Haarg	forgetting that it's the propery metaclass that is the problem	08:42
+perlDreamer	that's okay, I'm still confused with how you get 2 init_meta methods in 1 package's namespace, without using inheritance	08:43
@Haarg	in one package namespace?	08:43
@Haarg	they don't get exported to the class they are used in	08:43
@Haarg	they are called by import	08:43
@Haarg	ok	08:44
+perlDreamer	so it does keep track of the classes, and calls init_meta in each one	08:45
@Haarg	i changed some other things and was getting the same failures	08:45
@Haarg	remove the + from has 'property_metaroles' and everything works	08:45
@Haarg	(almost)	08:45
@Haarg	not really deep tracking	08:45
@Haarg	WebGUI::Definition::Asset has also => 'WebGUI::Definition'	08:46
@Haarg	so when WebGUI::Definition::import gets called	08:46
@Haarg	it calls the generated $import method	08:46
+perlDreamer	what other changes do you have, that aren't committed	08:46
+perlDreamer	if I remove the +, I get missing fieldType warnings	08:46
@Haarg	which calls init_meta in WebGUI::Definition::Asset because it is defined there, and init_meta in WebGUI::Definition because of the also	08:47
@Haarg	i'm going to try to minimize the changes	08:47
@Haarg	pushed my changes	08:50
+perlDreamer	only 1 failing test	08:52
+perlDreamer	way better than before	08:52
@Haarg	yeah	08:53
@Haarg	that one is likely something i broke when making changes	08:53
@Haarg	some places where it was doing ->isa and i had to do the checks different because ->does and ->does_role weren't working right	08:54
@Haarg	they only work on Moose classes and it seems like some of the metaclasses end up getting created as Class::MOP classes	08:54
@Haarg	and don't have the extra tracking for roles	08:54
+perlDreamer	is that due to the anonymous classes that are created?	08:56
@Haarg	something like that	08:56
@Haarg	if you have a Moose class and apply a role to it that stuff is tracked, but it seems like some of the metaclasses don't.	08:57
+perlDreamer	you think it's a bug?	08:57
@Haarg	i'm not really familiar with cmp_deeply, but it will need to do a different type of check than an isa	08:57
@Haarg	i have no idea	08:57
@Haarg	also, i don't really love the _property_metaclass thing i have in there, but it worked so i left it	08:59
+perlDreamer	we'll have to build something for cmp_deeply, it only provides an isa method by default	09:04
+perlDreamer	but we should be able to construct something that does ->can fairly easily	09:04
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:38
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+bartjol	hi	16:51
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+perlDreamer	bartjol: definitely	17:03
+bartjol	ah, bien	17:05
+bartjol	because I suppose, my part fixes the part of getting the correct language and the replacement of the files the other stuff	17:06
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+bartjol	perlDreamer: my fix works, but might it not be better to create the i18n object, which should be able to provide the abbreviation?	17:09
+perlDreamer	yes, that would probably be better	17:10
+perlDreamer	do you want to alter your patch to do that?	17:10
+bartjol	yes	17:12
+bartjol	I was going to that, but Koen interrupted me by telephone :)	17:13
+perlDreamer	that's what you get for giving him your phone number	17:16
+bartjol	well, it was the number of procolix	17:18
+bartjol	well, it can be very short:	17:23
+bartjol	my $sessionLanguage = $i18n->{_language};	17:24
+bartjol	my $language = $i18n->getLanguage($sessionLanguage,"languageAbbreviation");	17:24
+bartjol	the i18n object is already created before :)	17:24
+bartjol	useless to copy that code from sub new in international.pm	17:24
+perlDreamer	there's a way to get ->{_language} through the object, too, yes?	17:25
+bartjol	well, the line I posted	17:25
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+bartjol	you can skip the first line and replace $sessionLanguage in the second line by $i18n->{_language}	17:26
+bartjol	that's the shortest	17:26
+bartjol	and	17:26
+bartjol	the lines with the unless ($language} are obsolete I believe	17:27
+bartjol	new defaults to english I believe	17:27
+perlDreamer	I mean, there must be a way through the API to get $i18n->{_language} without peeking inside the object	17:27
+bartjol	oh, you mean like a real get method	17:27
+bartjol	not sure, I was trying to find that	17:28
+perlDreamer	there isn't	17:29
+perlDreamer	I see	17:29
+bartjol	ah, and I was wrong about new	17:29
+perlDreamer	we don't need to pass the language in	17:29
+bartjol	we need the abbreviation	17:30
+perlDreamer	$language = $i18n->get('', 'languageAbbreviation');	17:30
+bartjol	oh	17:30
+bartjol	sure	17:30
+bartjol	indeed	17:30
+perlDreamer	which means the language should be the 2nd argument	17:30
+bartjol	mmm, maybe there are other circumstances where the 1st is better	17:31
+perlDreamer	there shouldn't be, the property name is required, and the language is optional	17:31
+perlDreamer	hash based would work okay, too	17:31
+bartjol	well	17:31
+bartjol	I can't really overview the complications	17:32
+bartjol	my $language = $i18n->getLanguage($i18n->{_language},"languageAbbreviation"); looks nice and readable to me though	17:33
+bartjol	and it works	17:36
+perlDreamer	I think the unless code is there to handle broken language packs, without making the rich editor crash	17:36
+bartjol	and spanish isn't my best alnguage	17:36
+perlDreamer	no, it doesn't have any TinyMCE translations	17:37
+bartjol	the default stuff is there	17:37
+bartjol	but not webgui plugin stuff	17:38
+bartjol	but, are we gonna renew all getLanguage calls?	17:39
+perlDreamer	renew?	17:39
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbeb1337 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/RichEdit.pm): Make the RichEditor obey the new session overrides for language settings. Fixes bug #11443. - http://bit.ly/d2uvmd	17:40
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r85dd7cc / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/RichEdit.pm): Make the RichEditor obey the new session overrides for language settings. Fixes bug #11443. - http://bit.ly/8YBGSn	17:40
+bartjol	if you wanna swap language and the translation ID	17:40
+perlDreamer	oh, no. That would have to happen in WebGUI 8	17:41
+perlDreamer	and for all I know Haarg has plans to completely change that	17:41
+bartjol	yeah, well, I grepped throuh the code, it's only about 10 entries	17:42
+bartjol	but still	17:42
+bartjol	ok	17:42
+perlDreamer	yes, we could fix the core, but completely break all the custom code out there	17:42
+perlDreamer	which, might help with budgets in the future, but would not make customers happy	17:43
+bartjol	customers? since when are those important?	17:43
+bartjol	well that seems fixed in my site	17:45
+perlDreamer	I went with '' instead of $i18n->{_language}	17:45
+bartjol	and less code in total	17:45
+bartjol	I saw it in git	17:45
+perlDreamer	time to take the kiddos to school	17:45
+bartjol	have fun	17:45
+perlDreamer	okay, kids are taken care of	18:02
+perlDreamer	bartjol is happy	18:02
+perlDreamer	time to work with rogier	18:02
+bartjol	but, any specific reason to let out the $i18n->{_language} ? because it is shorter or quicker?	18:03
+bartjol	just interested	18:03
+bartjol	it is not better readable	18:03
+bartjol	sorry for reopening :)	18:03
+perlDreamer	it breaks object encapsulation, and isn't needed	18:04
+perlDreamer	it's better to use the bad API design than to peek inside the object like that	18:04
+bartjol	I believe you	18:04
+bartjol	not sure why yet	18:04
+bartjol	it is only looking	18:05
+bartjol	it's a matter of not being best practises I suppose	18:06
+perlDreamer	yes	18:07
+perlDreamer	peeking inside objects (when not needed) is bad	18:07
+perlDreamer	because if the object changes, your peeking may break	18:07
+perlDreamer	and then you have to hunt all through the code base to find the breakage	18:08
+perlDreamer	because we don't have enough tests to cover all the code	18:08
+bartjol	doesn't rogier's bug solution also indicated that or used tempalted can't be deleted, or automatical setting change at removal	18:08
+bartjol	ah, ok	18:08
+perlDreamer	there should be a fallback for "critical" operations	18:08
+perlDreamer	so that users don't break their sites badly	18:09
+perlDreamer	so we fix the login templates, but create account and the others will just stay broken	18:09
+perlDreamer	since you could login and fix those	18:09
+bartjol	yeah	18:10
+bartjol	just a way of preventing people like rogier to lock themselves out	18:10
+bartjol	:)	18:10
+bartjol	I suppose I'm one of them cruel sysadmins	18:10
+bartjol	time to go	18:12
+bartjol	thanks for the explanation perlDreamer	18:12
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rc31110d / (4 files in 3 dirs): Try to fallback to a default login template if the configured one won't work. Fixes bug #11450. - http://bit.ly/9Ucgvs	18:51
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r119d513 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Try to fallback to a default login template if the configured one won't work. Fixes bug #11450. - http://bit.ly/9zFOpo	18:52
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dionak	Hi all	19:05
+perlDreamer	hey, dionak!	19:05
dionak	how are things in WG land?	19:05
+perlDreamer	not too bad	19:06
+perlDreamer	we just released 7.8-stable	19:06
+perlDreamer	WebGUI 8 work continues on	19:06
dionak	yes, i noticed that. congrads!	19:06
dionak	speaking of upgrades & releases. Quick upgrade question. I'm upgrade a site from 7.5.40 to 7.7.20. I'm following what I think is the prescribed upgrade path. 7.5.40->7.6.35->7.7.20. Did I miss any step?	19:07
dionak	i'm getting the following error: Adding comments asset aspect...DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'assetAspectComments' already exists	19:07
+perlDreamer	how many times did you go through the upgrade?	19:07
dionak	a couple now. i've restored the database and the lib & doc files when starting over	19:08
+perlDreamer	at which step in the upgrade does that happen?	19:08
dionak	copied a fresh version from production (7.5.40)	19:08
dionak	hrspotlight_com 7.5.40-7.6.10	19:08
dionak	the script makes several db alters before failing on this one	19:08
+perlDreamer	in the 7.5.40, does the assetAspectsComments table exist in the 7.5.40 database?	19:09
+perlDreamer	the other thing that can happen is that when restoring the database, it has to be dropped.	19:10
+perlDreamer	because importing the backup will not delete the newly created tables	19:10
dionak	ah, that's the issue.	19:10
dionak	thanks. i'll make a note	19:10
+perlDreamer	we should stick that in the wiki somewhere	19:11
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, spent most of the morning doing core bug fixing	19:17
+perlDreamer	I'll have a go at the wg8 tests when I come back from the gym	19:17
@Haarg	cool	19:18
@Haarg	the good part of that test failure in the roles stuff is that it is only a rest failure and the code itself is working afaik	19:18
dionak	i stuck that note in a wiki entry. thanks for the pointer perlDreamer	19:20
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dionak	another question. while running the upgrade from 7.6.35-7.7.17 I get: Reverting use packed... Invalid asset id 'pGyXTw9lAizHICubVyYqEQ' requested! at upgrade_7.6.35-7.7.17.pl line 1448	19:50
dionak	Is there a utility tool anywhere to check the validity of assetIds?	19:50
dionak	or method?	20:05
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+perlDreamer	dionak, we need a tool like that	20:40
+perlDreamer	it should be a Cron job that runs weekly and alerts admins to broken assets in their sites	20:41
+perlDreamer	that way, they can fix them _before_ doing upgrades	20:41
dionak	yea, that would be handy. i'll keep that in mind	20:49
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, it would be nice if the classes were sane, but I agree that it's better that they're functional then pretty :)	20:59
+perlDreamer	Haarg: here's the test patch-> http://gist.github.com/319799	21:02
+perlDreamer	after this, can we merge and start role hackery?	21:03
ckotil	where are you using roles?	21:05
@preaction	the old AssetAspects are becoming Moose::Roles	21:06
ckotil	ah. ive never heard of either :)	21:06
+perlDreamer	AssetAspects provide things like RssFeeds	21:07
+perlDreamer	Installability	21:07
+perlDreamer	Subscribability	21:07
+perlDreamer	etc.	21:07
+perlDreamer	in WebGUI8, they do all that, and more	21:07
@preaction	reusable bits of asset functionality	21:07
ckotil	ah cool	21:08
+perlDreamer	preaction: what's involved in update the VM for WebGUI?	21:25
@preaction	i don't know, never made one	21:26
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@preaction	perlDreamer: my real solution to that login template problem is to put the default webGUI templates on the filesystem, so that they simply cannot be edited OR deleted	22:49
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+perlDreamer	we could just lock them down in the database so they can't be deleted through the UI	22:55
@preaction	yeah, but still annoying to edit default templates and no way to patch / track	22:55
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+perlDreamer	preaction, in 7.9 I'm planning on adding testHarness 3.17 to testEnvironment.pl. Any issues, concerns, worries, directives or comments?	23:52
@preaction	as an optional install correct?	23:52
+perlDreamer	parts of the Survey won't work without it	23:53
@preaction	okay, go ahead	23:53
@preaction	if it's necessary for normal operation it's required, if it's only necessary for testing, it's optional	23:53
@preaction	that should be true for all our requirements	23:53
+perlDreamer	well, in that case	23:54
+perlDreamer	it's used for testing the Survey, from inside the Survey	23:54
@preaction	right, but it's an end-user utility	23:54
+perlDreamer	instead of t/test.t	23:54
+perlDreamer	got it	23:54
@preaction	we've got five types of users: Devs, Admins, Designers, Content Managers, and Visitors. only Devs are concerned about the unit tests, and only devs will take the time to learn how to install the optional components	23:56
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@preaction	we should just Do The Right Thing when it comes to Admins, Designers, Content Managers, and Visitors	23:56
@preaction	Admins should never have to concern themselves with Dev problems, Designers with Admin problems, Content Managers with Designer problems, etc..	23:56
* preaction should draw up a UI guideline document someday		23:57
+perlDreamer	definitely	23:57
+perlDreamer	documentation is good	23:57
@preaction	we'd be able to simplify the UI if we specified the rules under which certain things should happen	23:57
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8128f54 / (4 files in 4 dirs): WebGUI now needs Test::Harness 3.17 or higher for the Survey. Fixes bug #11402. - http://bit.ly/aPGJYt	23:59
@preaction	wait, is that really a bug?	23:59
@preaction	if it's a bug, we can add the additional requirements to the 7.8 series	23:59
+perlDreamer	it was supposed to go into 7.8, but was added late	23:59
--- Day changed Wed Mar 03 2010
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+perlDreamer	so the change was backed out, with the condition it could go into 7.9	00:00
+perlDreamer	so not really a bug	00:00
@preaction	ahh	00:00
@preaction	ok	00:00
+perlDreamer	but I didn't want to forget it, so I posted a bug about it	00:00
+perlDreamer	I did something similar with WeatherData	00:00
@preaction	yeah, that's no problem. just making sure	00:00
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+perlDreamer	speaking of the man himself!	00:01
+perlDreamer	yo, patspam	00:01
+perlDreamer	Did you detect a disturbance in the Survey?	00:01
+perlDreamer	I need to go pick up the kids from school	00:04
+perlDreamer	bbl	00:04
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CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r13b7538 / (5 files in 4 dirs): start of conversion to metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/abUtee	01:35
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra2f0cbe / (6 files in 3 dirs): fix more things for metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/aByuWi	01:35
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r12fcdf2 / (6 files in 5 dirs): almost working using metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/bSq7DV	01:35
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra5f54a7 / (4 files in 3 dirs): mostly working definition roles - http://bit.ly/9m9rC4	01:35
+perlDreamer	Haarg, the tests work, but Asset.pm is not in good shape	01:54
@Haarg	what kind of problems are you running into?	01:54
+perlDreamer	around blocks, and mixing property and has	01:55
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/320132	01:56
@Haarg	when are you getting that?	01:57
@Haarg	i just updated WebGUI8 and i'm not getting errors like that	01:58
@Haarg	perl -Ilib -mWebGUI::Asset -wce1 works fine	01:58
+perlDreamer	that's perl -wc -I /data/WebGUI/lib Asset.pm	01:59
@Haarg	re-including the same file is what is messing it up	02:00
@Haarg	does that normally work for you? or does it normally work but with errors?	02:01
@Haarg	err	02:01
@Haarg	but with warnings	02:01
+perlDreamer	it normally works, with no syntax errors, sometimes I get warnings about subroutines being redefined	02:01
+perlDreamer	but all the Asset modules include one another incestuously	02:01
@Haarg	yeah, but that is fine	02:01
@Haarg	the problem is that you are giving it just the file	02:02
+perlDreamer	I'll rewrite my vim bindkeys	02:02
@Haarg	so it goes through Asset.pm, which includes WebGUI::AssetLineage, which includes WebGUI::Asset, which perl doesn't know it loaded already	02:02
+perlDreamer	how do I use the new/improved Definition to build a role now?	02:03
@Haarg	that's a good question.	02:03
+perlDreamer	you mean the goal of doing this wasn't to make making roles possible?	02:06
@Haarg	it was	02:06
@Haarg	it's just not complete yet	02:06
@Haarg	the first problem is that it tries to apply WebGUI::Definition::Role::Asset to the role class	02:10
@Haarg	http://gist.github.com/320151 not perfect but at least gets RssFeed compiling	02:20
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+perlDreamer	what causes the metaclass of RssFeed to be different?	02:24
@Haarg	it is a role	02:24
+perlDreamer	ah, use Moose::Role	02:24
@Haarg	i can't get Asset::Wobject to load right now	02:25
+perlDreamer	is that because it uses extends?	02:25
@Haarg	possibly	02:25
@Haarg	is something broken with extends?	02:26
+perlDreamer	can't use extends with roles	02:26
+perlDreamer	I think	02:26
@Haarg	oh. you can't use them in roles	02:26
@Haarg	but you can still have inheritance with your non-role classes	02:26
@Haarg	asset itself works	02:27
@Haarg	but all subclasses are borken	02:27
@Haarg	man that's a seriously screwed up error	02:29
+perlDreamer	could you commit the gist patch?	02:30
@Haarg	yeah. i want to clean that up eventually but it's a good enough start.	02:30
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r38e2e09 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): apply correct roles/metaroles to roles - http://bit.ly/c6UmhX	02:31
+perlDreamer	thanks :)	02:32
+perlDreamer	wait a sec	02:33
+perlDreamer	the thing with extends should only fail if Asset.pm is a Role	02:33
+perlDreamer	which it isn't	02:33
@Haarg	exactly	02:33
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CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rd932543 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject.pm : clean up Wobject includes - http://bit.ly/cJN2Pt	02:35
+perlDreamer	when you say it won't load, what does that mean?	02:35
@Haarg	Asset::Wobject (or any other Asset subclass) fails to compile	02:36
+perlDreamer	perl -I/data/WebGUI/lib -mWebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Article -wce1	02:36
+perlDreamer	like that?	02:36
+perlDreamer	Article compiles for me	02:37
+perlDreamer	and until the most recent commit, Wobject compiled okay for me too	02:37
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doc777	I seem to have gotten 2 sites that have "cross linked" themselves. Each seems to be looking for files in the "other" domains folder and cannot find them. using the latest wre. Any clues as to what I have done wrong?	02:44
+perlDreamer	check the config files	02:45
+perlDreamer	uploadsPath	02:45
doc777	ok, thanks :o)	02:45
doc777	uploadsURL is /uploads should that be something else? The uploads path looks correct. But site A looks for files in site B dir according to modproxy-error.	02:48
+perlDreamer	uploadsURL can be anything	02:49
@preaction	DocumentRoot in the modproxy files?	02:50
* perlDreamer takes the kids to piano lessons. I should be back online at 6pm or so		02:52
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doc777	They seem correct. Everything was fine on site A, then I added site B and suddenly noticed site A was wrecked. Checking the log file show that site A is looking at site Bs upload folder.	02:53
doc777	I think it is this: RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://127.0.0.1:8081/$1	02:55
@preaction	oh, old WRE	03:06
@preaction	you need ProxyPreserveHost On	03:06
doc777	Ah, let me check that out :)	03:09
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* patspam emerges from under a rock		05:06
@preaction	yay!	05:06
@preaction	how was it?	05:06
+patspam	cosy :)	05:06
+patspam	I installed linux based firmware (dd-wrt) on my router today, yay!	05:07
+perlDreamer	patspam: no more TAP hacks in Survey	05:07
+patspam	tell me more	05:07
+perlDreamer	well, we have WebGUI 7.9 now, so I made Test::Harness 3.x a requirement	05:10
+perlDreamer	so no more eval { require TAP::MOD } or show_error_message;	05:11
+patspam	sweet!	05:12
+patspam	dang, I just transcoded a dvd of old family footage and the resulting avi file was bigger than the original vob files	05:13
+perlDreamer	oy	05:17
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r644b74c / docs/create.sql : Ready for 7.8.14 release. - http://bit.ly/by7wyx	07:09
+perlDreamer	all done	07:37
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rca0d7cc / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.15 development. - http://bit.ly/b5rt3E	07:37
-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.7.33-stable \| 7.8.14-stable \| WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com		07:41
+perlDreamer	thanks, Radix_	07:42
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+perlDreamer	bartjol, you are internationally happy today?	17:03
+bartjol	eeeh, hevan't looked yet	17:06
+bartjol	oh, I did	17:06
+bartjol	but only at the macro	17:06
+bartjol	and I had all stuff installed already	17:06
+bartjol	richedit is great too	17:07
+bartjol	and i18n still at 100%	17:10
SDuensin	Hey gang. Does the new 7.8.14 upgrade correctly?	17:18
+bartjol	mine did	17:18
SDuensin	I know it had missing packages or something last time, so I waited.	17:18
+bartjol	haven't found any yet	17:18
+bartjol	but I installed them with the script	17:19
+bartjol	so that is not complete certainty	17:19
+bartjol	i.e: I took another route	17:19
SDuensin	I'll quit asking you then. :-P	17:20
SDuensin	I fear upgrades enough as it is.	17:20
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+bartjol	but what you can do	17:22
+bartjol	to copy my path	17:22
+bartjol	is upgrade to 7.8.13, run the packages script and then upgrade to 7.8.14	17:23
+bartjol	SDuensin: just as easy :)	17:23
SDuensin	True.	17:24
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+bartjol	and don't follow rogiers directions on login templates	17:25
+perlDreamer	7.8.14 is all fixed up	17:27
+perlDreamer	the missing templates are added back in	17:28
+perlDreamer	and yeah, don't let rogier muck with your login templates	17:28
+perlDreamer	otherwise bartjol the mean admin will laugh at you	17:28
+bartjol	I know, but I just didn't test it the "normal" way	17:28
+perlDreamer	bartjol, do you have the screen program installed on your servers?	17:29
+bartjol	oh, yeah, you asked silly questions, let me ponder on how to lay my wrath opun you	17:29
SDuensin	perlDreamer - So pop to the latest 7.7.x and then on up?	17:29
+bartjol	bart@host116~> which screen	17:29
+bartjol	/usr/bin/screen	17:29
+bartjol	I do apparently	17:29
SDuensin	SCREEN!	17:29
* SDuensin loves that program.		17:30
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, what version are you on now?	17:30
SDuensin	Uh. Looking.	17:30
+bartjol	but maybe not all	17:31
SDuensin	7.7.32	17:31
+bartjol	today is a day of dumb people asking questions	17:31
+perlDreamer	so, upgrade to 7.7.33	17:31
+perlDreamer	then go to 7.8.13	17:31
+bartjol	bbiam	17:31
SDuensin	7.8.13?	17:32
+perlDreamer	7.8.13	17:34
+perlDreamer	well,7.8.14	17:34
+perlDreamer	but the upgrade path is 7.7.x to 7.7.33 to 7.8.13 to 7.8.14	17:34
SDuensin	Ok. Didn't know there was a stop at 13.	17:34
+perlDreamer	there's not a stop, but instead of going from 7.7.33 to 7.8.0, it will shunt you up to 7.8.13	17:36
SDuensin	ok.	17:38
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r53d63bc / (docs/create.sql docs/previousVersion.sql): Fix SQL scripts for the next beta release. - http://bit.ly/aCFPNU	18:23
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, why does WebGUI::Definition::Meta::Class need to install the properties into a new anonymous class?	19:18
+perlDreamer	and oose.pm is just evil	19:18
@Haarg	it needs to have an instance of the attribute metaclass to check for which sub-attributes to stick in 'form'	19:28
+perlDreamer	so, before the recent set of patches, Moose was building one for us?	19:30
@Haarg	we weren't using a role but specifying a class. so there was no need to construct the class, we already had it.	19:38
+perlDreamer	would it be easier to duplicate the Definition code in another class that is the base class for Roles, instead of trying to build a dual purpose solution?	19:43
@Haarg	possibly	19:44
@Haarg	having the if condition i added in seems to work for that part though.	19:45
+perlDreamer	sure. I was just thinking about the Asset subclasses not being able to load the anonymous meta classes	19:47
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r122bd26 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset.t): Add keywords accessor for looking up Asset keywords. - http://bit.ly/deCsLs	21:04
+perlDreamer	Haarg, did you try using any of the Asset subclasses, or just syntax check them?	21:06
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0a0b655 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Eval and error handling for processTemplate. - http://bit.ly/dn2zKg	21:10
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r44c6048 / t/Asset/Wobject/Shelf.t : Update test for exception handling. - http://bit.ly/a48MoX	21:10
+perlDreamer	I just realized I've been running wobject tests for the last 20 minutes	21:10
@Haarg	looks like maybe i'm only getting warnings	21:10
+perlDreamer	I saw the same thing, and figured they were errors	21:11
+perlDreamer	shelf works, btw	21:11
@Haarg	very strange warnings though	21:12
@Haarg	and if i try to load WebGUI::Asset::File i get a warning	21:12
@Haarg	but if i try to load WebGUI::Asset::File::Image i don't	21:12
+perlDreamer	I see that, too	21:13
+perlDreamer	ZipArchive has warnings	21:14
@Haarg	what i'm wondering is why Asset is getting an anonymous superclass	21:39
* perlDreamer quotes Bart Simpson, "I didn't do it!"		21:41
+perlDreamer	shouldn't the anonymous superclass be the class for the role that is added?	21:41
@Haarg	i guess	21:43
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rd7b0d93 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): Apply Definition roles properly to eliminate warnings - http://bit.ly/8Y0ouh	21:49
@Haarg	Collaboration is compiling with RssFeed as a role. haven't tried to do any testing though.	21:50
+perlDreamer	testing I can do	21:52
+perlDreamer	brilliant API design and implementation I leave to my betters	21:52
+perlDreamer	however, right now I'm leaving my betters to go running	21:52
@Haarg	'brilliant' may be stretching it a bit. at this point i'm hoping i haven't invented something too complex.	21:53
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb4a790a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/fileImport.pl): Fix handling filenames with space with overwrite=1 in fileImport.pl. Fixes bug #11453 - http://bit.ly/dxU23B	23:28
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r446403c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/fileImport.pl): Fix handling filenames with space with overwrite=1 in fileImport.pl. Fixes bug #11453 - http://bit.ly/9bMUUN	23:28
+perlDreamer	Haarg: the role seems to be adopting the table of the consumer	23:30
+perlDreamer	but that may be an artifact of the way I wrote write	23:31
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/321054	23:32
kimd	preaction, do you have time for a quick JS question?	23:52
kimd	How can access the id of an element?	23:52
kimd	el.id doesn't work.	23:52
kimd	Or does someone else know?	23:54
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@Haarg	perlDreamer, probably because of the way the get_all_tables method works	00:04
kimd	Ok, I got it. No need to answer.	00:04
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, it's both	00:27
+perlDreamer	since roles inject themselves into the class	00:27
+perlDreamer	inspecting the class metas is flawed	00:27
+perlDreamer	I think someone mentioned that to me at one point	00:27
@preaction	version tags serve two purposes: staging content and history/rollback, correct?	00:39
@preaction	for the most part, users don't want staging content unless they actually know they want it, then they could take an extra step or two to create a "stage"	00:40
@preaction	and history/rollback can be done without staging content	00:41
@preaction	three purposes: approval	00:42
+perlDreamer	approval is a side effect of staging	00:42
+perlDreamer	and has little to do with the tags themselves	00:42
+perlDreamer	at least, that's the way that version tags are built today	00:43
@preaction	right	00:43
@preaction	i'm just thinking that websites keep evolving, everybody wants to add content and admins want that content added in a structured way	00:45
@preaction	and if we could do it all again... what would we do?	00:46
+perlDreamer	Haarg has this idea about versions versus revisions	00:47
+perlDreamer	right now an asset can contain both	00:47
+perlDreamer	well, not really versions versus revisions, but versioned and non-versioned data	00:47
+perlDreamer	and that you should be able to access them independently	00:47
@preaction	well, in a DBIC world there'd be a DBIC::Versioned or whatever	00:48
@preaction	or a WebGUI::Model::Role::Versioned	00:49
@preaction	and in a perfect world i'd have a pony	00:51
+perlDreamer	in a perfect world, I'd give you the pony	00:52
+perlDreamer	I think WebGUI's version system works okay	00:52
+perlDreamer	it could be implemented better though	00:52
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+perlDreamer	and it would be nice if it versioned everything	00:53
+perlDreamer	but I know that's much more challenging	00:53
@preaction	would anyone object if Folder had a checkbox to "Commit added files automatically"	00:54
+perlDreamer	how about if it has a user selectable workflow in the edit properties?	00:55
@preaction	of course it would need that	00:55
+perlDreamer	it won't work	00:55
@preaction	but then what about subfolders?	00:55
+perlDreamer	they inherit from the parent, or you can override	00:56
+perlDreamer	it won't work because the children don't check the parent for the autocommit tag	00:56
@preaction	this just opens a nice big huge can of worms	00:56
+perlDreamer	yes	00:56
+perlDreamer	what that person wants is per branch configuration of commit workflow	00:56
@preaction	why does it always seem like i could reduce WebGUI to like 5 assets?	00:58
+perlDreamer	they'd be 5 very fat assets, not like the beautiful ones we have now :P	00:58
@preaction	which ones are those?	01:00
@preaction	we'd need a Folder, a Calendar, a RawContent, a RichContent, and a File	01:00
+perlDreamer	What about Sku's?	01:00
+perlDreamer	and the DataForm?	01:01
+perlDreamer	or forum?	01:01
@preaction	Form of course	01:01
@preaction	forum is a folder of folders of richcontents	01:01
@preaction	gallery is a folder of folders of files	01:01
@preaction	blog is a folder of richcontents	01:01
@preaction	richcontent would have useful, individually-placed attachments	01:02
@preaction	wiki is a folder of richcontents editable by anyone	01:02
+perlDreamer	Poll?	01:03
@preaction	form with a proper set of reporting features	01:03
+perlDreamer	Sku?	01:04
@preaction	would have to be its own asset as part of shop, but that's an entire subsystem of its own	01:04
@preaction	and a subclass of RichContent, of course	01:04
+perlDreamer	Sku is a role	01:06
+perlDreamer	so that you can buy or sell any of the other ones	01:06
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't doubt that you could do what you're talking about	01:10
+perlDreamer	I think we'd end up with "deep" sets of assets, instead of "wide" ones	01:10
+perlDreamer	where there are lots of subclasses, instead of siblings	01:10
+perlDreamer	preaction: how about a CommitMyChanges macro?	01:16
+perlDreamer	that would work outside of TurnAdminOn	01:16
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@preaction	they're normal users though, they don't know about version tags or committing or anything like that	01:17
+perlDreamer	you could make the label say anything	01:17
+perlDreamer	You must check-in your files after uploading	01:17
+perlDreamer	or whatever	01:17
+perlDreamer	the thing is, what the user really needs is access to the commit link	01:17
@preaction	well, what the user really needs is for the Gallery to allow any file uploads	01:18
@preaction	or to use a Collaboration System, or something	01:18
+perlDreamer	could you style a gallery to look like a folder	01:19
+perlDreamer	without albums and thumbnails and the like?	01:19
@preaction	of course	01:19
+perlDreamer	wel	01:22
+perlDreamer	Folder is such a nice, small, Asset though	01:22
+perlDreamer	Gallery is big!	01:22
@preaction	yes, but Gallery is only big because it has to deal with normal user input and versioning. if Folder had to, it would be big too	01:24
+perlDreamer	can you deep nest albums, like Folders?	01:25
@preaction	if we let anyone add files to a folder, we have to control it, filter it, secure it, and etc...	01:25
@preaction	no, but that's not out of the question as a feature	01:25
@preaction	just, nobody asked for it. nobody ever asks for it	01:26
+perlDreamer	Haarg: new write method for Asset -> http://gist.github.com/321187	01:27
+perlDreamer	I need to expand the tests to consider roles	01:27
+perlDreamer	preaction, it seems to be a dance between implementing so many features that we're too big to use, and not having enough features for people to get work done	01:31
@preaction	yes. we add too little for the feature to matter to people to want to use it	01:32
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure about that	01:35
@preaction	i've heard a dozen times people don't use Gallery simply because they can't nest albums	01:36
+perlDreamer	they why don't they file an RFE to get it done?	01:38
+perlDreamer	or pay to get it done?	01:38
+perlDreamer	or just write it themselves?	01:38
@preaction	because they aren't invested enough, they'd rather go find something that works	01:38
@preaction	they'd rather get their job done instead of merely telling someone else to do it	01:39
+perlDreamer	then we have to be psychic enough to know what people are going to need before we write stuff	01:40
@preaction	that's easy though: look at what everyone else is doing	01:40
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4d3d031 / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Asset.pm : remove copy/paste variable names. - http://bit.ly/ahADuf	01:46
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf88c18e / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Fix the write method to iterate over each property to get the table names instead of looking in the class metaproperties. - http://bit.ly/aQbbjK	01:46
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3d52c45 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Changes to Post and Collaboration, for new Asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/auSYje	01:46
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rda57427 / asset_status.ods : Collaboration tests are passing now. - http://bit.ly/9Yl3Ke	01:46
+perlDreamer	everyone else is using PHP :D	01:46
@preaction	but we can copy their features	02:02
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+perlDreamer	t/00_compile.t can be run!	02:32
+perlDreamer	github is down	02:33
+perlDreamer	a large portion of developers all leave for coffee	02:33
+perlDreamer	on the way out, they smile sadly at their boss and say, "Sorry, boss. But with github down we can do any work."	02:35
+perlDreamer	and the Boss scratches his head and says, "I thought that GitHub allowed offline work, which is why they spend all that time in the coffee shop...'	02:36
@preaction	and then they remember that git is distributed and allows pushing directly to production	02:36
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r814c2af / (55 files in 6 dirs): Change calls to new to newById across Asset/ - http://bit.ly/c9rLvt	02:41
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8f6c20d / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix lots of syntax errors and bad definition configuration. - http://bit.ly/d8XcR7	02:41
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r65a5053 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm : Fix a missing label in the WikiPage - http://bit.ly/9xWi9c	02:41
+perlDreamer	Today is a big day, preaction	02:41
+perlDreamer	t/00_compile.t runs clean	02:41
@preaction	yay!	02:42
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+perlDreamer	I think that in 2-3 weeks we could use an alpha server up and running for wg8	02:43
+perlDreamer	is that doable?	02:43
@preaction	we also need every action a user is allowed to do to be configurable... because that is eventually what they want	02:43
+perlDreamer	in wg8?	02:44
@preaction	no, 7	02:44
* perlDreamer is having a hard time with the context change		02:44
+perlDreamer	what kind of actions, and what kind of configurability?	02:44
@preaction	sorry, i'm approving RFEs, since we're unfrozen again	02:44
+perlDreamer	I warned you about those german language RFEs	02:45
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9b4a9be / (7 files in 2 dirs): Remove usage of Class:C3 in favor of roles. - http://bit.ly/bkzcjG	03:59
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@preaction	so many things are easy to do when you're first building an app, and absolutely impossible when you've got it deployed	04:10
@preaction	and so braindead as to wonder WHY it wasn't added in the first place	04:10
@preaction	i swear to god one day i'm gonna burn this place to the ground	04:16
@preaction	wonderful. i can't approve any other RFEs because i Can't find them. HelpDesk doesn't save sorting through pages	04:31
+perlDreamer	sounds like we should fix the sorting bug in the HelpDesk, sooner rather than later?	04:38
@preaction	frodwith will be doing so once he's finished with automat, so hopefully April	04:42
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7e673d4 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/RssFeed.pm : Don't need no stinkin' strict anymore! - http://bit.ly/ajKdGK	04:43
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5dc0299 / (4 files in 3 dirs): First cut at moving Subscribable to an Asset. - http://bit.ly/cffoTM	04:43
@preaction	that's the new tack: make paul do it	04:45
+perlDreamer	can you wait that long?	04:46
+perlDreamer	in any case, while we're working on the helpdesk, we need to display the time that a ticket was submited	04:47
@preaction	yeah, nobody's gonna be putting anything into 7.9 anyway	04:47
+perlDreamer	I think you may be surprised about that...	04:47
+perlDreamer	Luke Robinson's Login form code is a nice addition	04:47
@preaction	i know arjan has a couple things	04:47
+perlDreamer	and I may have a few pDC things to add as well	04:47
+perlDreamer	like the Folder DataForm template	04:48
@preaction	folder dataform template?	04:48
+perlDreamer	I'll get you a URL	04:48
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/file-manager-style-template-for-folder	04:49
+perlDreamer	the other thing I'd like to work on is the Asset manager pop-up menu rewrite	04:49
+perlDreamer	where we use 1 menu and pop it up in the right place, instead of making 25-50 of them	04:49
+perlDreamer	should really speed things up for loading	04:49
+perlDreamer	whaddya think?	04:51
+perlDreamer	(about the folder)	04:51
@preaction	sounds fine to me	04:51
+perlDreamer	also, knowing patspam, I wouldn't doubt there's something that couldn't be worked in wG 7.9 from SDH	04:53
+perlDreamer	maybe the template usage search and replace code	04:53
@preaction	heh, yeah, not seeing that happening	04:54
@preaction	webgui 7 just needs to go away	04:54
@preaction	and 8 too	04:54
@preaction	we need WebGUI X	04:54
@preaction	(that's 10, not Ecks)	04:54
+perlDreamer	8 will be good stuff	04:57
+perlDreamer	I just hope we don't get the huge turnover that happened with 6-7	04:57
+perlDreamer	I think we should do 1 high profile RFE, though	04:58
+perlDreamer	even if we have to do it off hours	04:58
+perlDreamer	it was a promise PB made to the community	04:58
@preaction	but WebGUI 8 has to be ready, period	04:59
+patspam	I'm hanging out for wg11	05:01
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra37b1c7 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Cleanup for moose accessors. - http://bit.ly/dhSLHD	05:02
+perlDreamer	I don't think there will ever be a WebGUI bigger than 8	05:02
+perlDreamer	Gooey is out of tentacles	05:02
@preaction	if i have complete authority for 2 major versions, i can make something totally awesome	05:05
+perlDreamer	If you'd make a Trait for JSON in an Asset property that would be totally awesome now	05:10
@preaction	but i don't like JSON in assets	05:11
@preaction	would even go so far as to say i hate it	05:11
+perlDreamer	how would you do it differently?	05:11
@preaction	normalized	05:13
+perlDreamer	see, you're using one of those CS terms that I don't understand	05:15
@preaction	a joined table	05:15
+perlDreamer	Is the Installable AssetAspect used anywhere?	05:16
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2b39e16 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Rough conversion of Comments and Installable to Moose. - http://bit.ly/bs75wc	05:22
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r36b6081 / (3 files): Update 3 Form plugins for Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/anQQE5	05:31
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra62e7b7 / lib/WebGUI/Session/Style.pm : Update Session for new Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/aLKgIO	05:35
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4137b19 / lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm : Update Account/Inbox plugin for new Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/bKZK8f	05:38
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r913802f / lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm : And again... - http://bit.ly/c9OvDh	05:39
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * raab930a / lib/WebGUI/Content/AssetDiscovery.pm : Update Content handlers for wg8. - http://bit.ly/bx3kSX	05:43
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r19d4e6d / lib/WebGUI/AdminConsole.pm : Update AdminConsole for instaniators. - http://bit.ly/dpzvbo	05:43
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd9e2816 / lib/WebGUI/Operation/Help.pm : Update Operation/Help for new asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/bcHo2a	05:44
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * red58eba / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : More instanciator cleanup in Asset.pm - http://bit.ly/bN71T4	05:48
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+patspam	night all	06:15
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re759890 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Update TrashExpiredEvents to wg8. - http://bit.ly/bNahwL	06:45
+perlDreamer	select assetId from EventsCalendar_event where eventEndDate < ?	06:45
@preaction	sounds awesome	06:47
+perlDreamer	aside from the table not existing	06:47
+perlDreamer	I'm guessing this is another one of those low usage workflow activities	06:47
@preaction	probably	06:48
+perlDreamer	I want to convert all the other classes over to Moose now	06:49
+perlDreamer	well, either that or write tests for 6 weeks non-stop	06:50
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1706747 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Fix this completely broken Workflow Activity. - http://bit.ly/bZIsPc	06:50
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3471f62 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Fix this completely broken Workflow Activity. - http://bit.ly/ceCmlw	06:50
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rcd2c1f5 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/GetSyndicatedContent.pm : Update workflow activity for wg8. - http://bit.ly/9eHw7P	06:53
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2147d7f / lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm : Update getAssetsInTrash method for wg8 instanciations and exception handling. - http://bit.ly/bXXPG2	06:55
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3e7e2c4 / lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm : And again. - http://bit.ly/bCsrWR	06:56
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r03427ee / lib/WebGUI/ProgressBar.pm : Update ProgressBar for new wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/cHZT0a	06:57
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * recc71d4 / (6 files in 3 dirs): Update Shop for new instanciators and for exception handling. - http://bit.ly/9QH7bt	07:08
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdfc388f / (2 files in 2 dirs): More Subscribable fixes. - http://bit.ly/9SPg94	07:08
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbf1cb7b / (7 files in 2 dirs): Aspect to Role renaming - http://bit.ly/cO4Ytq	07:10
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r26e50b9 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/RssFeed.pm : Fix POD typo. - http://bit.ly/a0GpLn	07:26
+perlDreamer	Haarg, preaction, the SC asset is currently broke in wg8. I'll be fixing it tomorrow.	07:26
@preaction	it's okay, nobody's gonna use the SC asset in WG8 for a while	07:26
+perlDreamer	hopefully not too long	07:29
+perlDreamer	of course, there's still all the editing interfaces to work on	07:29
+perlDreamer	but building wg8 may be one of the best things to ever happen to wg7	07:29
+perlDreamer	since we're literally crawling through all the code	07:29
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:44
+MrHairgrease	Greasings	16:45
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+patspam	morning perlDreamer	17:31
+perlDreamer	howdy, patspam	17:31
+perlDreamer	big milestone in WebGUI 8 last night	17:31
+perlDreamer	the syntax check ran clean	17:31
+perlDreamer	and Roles seem to be working for the most part	17:31
+perlDreamer	needs more testing though	17:32
SDuensin	Whaaa? Cool!	17:32
+perlDreamer	and ahead of us, is the new CHI caching infratructure	17:32
+perlDreamer	and change to automated form building in all assets	17:32
SDuensin	Is there a roadmap anywhere? Just curious as to what you're planning for 8.	17:33
+perlDreamer	there was a roadmap presented at the WUC	17:39
+perlDreamer	it's changed since then, though	17:39
+perlDreamer	you could try asking preaction, or searching through the Black Blog for the older announcements	17:39
SDuensin	I know how that is. My roadmap changes direction like a flag in a thunderstorm.	17:39
+MrHairgrease	SDuensin: http://www.webgui.org/use/wgtv/wgtv/2009-state-of-webgui#idgV-xaRzZhRqX-3hbNo5Jhw	17:40
SDuensin	Thanks! I was just headed to the TV area to look around!	17:40
+MrHairgrease	I think that the initial wg 8 roadmap was reveiled there	17:40
SDuensin	(Buffering!)	17:41
SDuensin	This is kind of an obvious URL, now that I see it... http://www.webgui.org/roadmap	17:42
ckotil	heh	17:47
SDuensin	I like this statement: "WebGUI 8 is about strengthening the platform for the future, and about improving the user experience."	17:48
SDuensin	The hardest part I have in selling WebGUI to people is the appearance. Not to be cruel, but the default look is ugly at best.	17:48
SDuensin	You put an out-of-the-box WebGUI next to something like Liferay and it just makes WebGUI look old.	17:49
SDuensin	Unfortunately, people don't realize the "problem" isn't a problem until they've run off with something else and find out it sucks. :-/	17:50
+perlDreamer	gosh, that turd sure looked purdy	18:00
+MrHairgrease	hmmm	18:00
* MrHairgrease is not sure he wants to know...		18:01
SDuensin	hehe	18:01
+MrHairgrease	and what is purdy	18:01
SDuensin	People like all the snazzy AJAXy crap.	18:02
+perlDreamer	purdy is slang for pretty	18:03
+perlDreamer	with a southern drawl	18:03
* ckotil plucks the banjo		18:03
+MrHairgrease	oh if it's pretty then I'm all ears	18:04
+MrHairgrease	tell us about the pretty turd	18:04
+perlDreamer	well, gosh, it has that nice thing where it gets all blinky	18:04
+perlDreamer	and when I start to type, it already knows what I'm going to say	18:05
+perlDreamer	all the corners are roundy	18:05
+perlDreamer	it just looks cool	18:05
SDuensin	Yes! Roundy!	18:05
* SDuensin wrote a roundy corner thing for WebGUI.		18:05
+perlDreamer	I couldn't get it to do anything useful, but it's sure purdy	18:05
+MrHairgrease	seems like general eurotrash to me	18:06
+MrHairgrease	=)	18:06
+perlDreamer	that would be a euroturd	18:06
+MrHairgrease	hehe	18:06
SDuensin	Look! Roundy test! http://allplay.jaegertech.net/	18:06
+bartjol	what, is there a generic solution for that?	18:08
+perlDreamer	yes, it's called CSS	18:08
SDuensin	I'm trying.	18:08
+MrHairgrease	hmm, the style seems to be a mix between modern realism and postapocalyptic neopurdyism	18:08
+bartjol	that'll put 30% of all webbuilders without work	18:08
+bartjol	which css?	18:09
+perlDreamer	WebGUI itself doesn't care what it looks like	18:09
+perlDreamer	it's all just styling	18:09
+MrHairgrease	bart: http://allplay.jaegertech.net/purdyroundies.css	18:09
+bartjol	nice	18:10
SDuensin	It's some javascript/css stuff I found and then I did an article template that lets you easily set the style.	18:10
+perlDreamer	I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a business of selling WebGUI style packages	18:10
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, sounds like a great thing to put in the Bazaar	18:10
SDuensin	Once it no longer sucks, sure. :-)	18:10
+perlDreamer	ah	18:11
+perlDreamer	I put up the sortable DataForm template before it was done	18:11
+perlDreamer	and some people actually fixed the bugs for me	18:11
SDuensin	Freaky.	18:11
+perlDreamer	Don't sit on it until it's perfect, otherwise it'll never get done	18:11
SDuensin	Right now, you put the extra style details in the "Summary" field of the article.	18:12
SDuensin	Just feels "hacky" to me.	18:13
+perlDreamer	why not put it in the extraHeadTags?	18:13
+perlDreamer	or in the template itself?	18:13
SDuensin	Because it's per-article.	18:14
SDuensin	WTF is Swiftysite? Google doesn't know them.	18:14
+perlDreamer	Swiftysite is someone peeling off the top of WebGUI, restyling it, and selling cheap website in the Netherlands	18:14
+perlDreamer	very, very nice people	18:14
+perlDreamer	you should come to a WUC and meet them	18:14
SDuensin	I'd like to. But they should talk to Google, too!	18:15
+perlDreamer	well, if any of the guys come into the IRC room, I'll point that out to them	18:18
+perlDreamer	hang on	18:18
+perlDreamer	when I type in swiftysite into google, it's the first result	18:18
+perlDreamer	alphamegahosting.com	18:18
+perlDreamer	that's them	18:18
+MrHairgrease	here as well	18:18
+perlDreamer	maybe SDuensin has thick fingers or something	18:18
SDuensin	Really? Trying again!	18:19
SDuensin	Ok, you guys just added it. :-P	18:20
+bartjol	yeah, we plugged into googles db	18:20
ckotil	swiftysite is powered by webgui?	18:21
ckotil	that's awesome. ive used it a time or two. dont understand a lick of it, but it makes great websites	18:21
SDuensin	hehe	18:21
+perlDreamer	yay! slow support day. I'm going to get tons of hacking done	18:24
SDuensin	HaCkInG!	18:25
+perlDreamer	well, for me, it is haCKing	18:26
SDuensin	The Wrath of Koen!	18:26
+perlDreamer	I try not to begrudge Calvin Klein the use of my initials	18:26
+bartjol	we lumberjack with it	18:26
ckotil	pd! you to?	18:26
+MrHairgrease	well, have fun with your purdy turds	18:27
* MrHairgrease is off!		18:27
* bartjol follows him on the feet		18:27
+perlDreamer	me, too ckotil	18:27
+perlDreamer	later, you Nederlanderin	18:28
+bartjol	we're male	18:28
ckotil	we share initials with the mild manner Clark Kent too	18:28
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+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease, should I have said Nederlanderer?	18:29
+MrHairgrease	Nederlanders	18:30
+MrHairgrease	and now	18:30
+MrHairgrease	its	18:30
+MrHairgrease	time	18:30
+MrHairgrease	to GO and enjoy my free time!	18:30
+MrHairgrease	woot	18:30
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r35e1e8c / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SyndicatedContent.pm : Fix SC use of RssFeed role. - http://bit.ly/bRsiNQ	18:38
SDuensin	Free time? Wazzat?	18:40
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf17fc5c / (12 files): Update Macros for wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/be1S8Z	18:48
+perlDreamer	that's when you work on Free Software projects and drink beer	18:48
SDuensin	Must be nice.	18:49
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r360acb5 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Use wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/ak9xmy	18:51
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3d9006b / (3 files in 2 dirs): Update Auth system for wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/bR4sER	18:53
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd5dd260 / (2 files in 2 dirs): More instanciator cleanup. - http://bit.ly/9iW39m	18:55
SDuensin	There he goes talking about WebGUI FS again. Evil tease!	18:56
+perlDreamer	ah, quit griping, break out yer keyboard and start hackin'	18:56
SDuensin	I know, I know!	18:57
SDuensin	I have a list of things I want to do to WebGUI that's a mile long.	18:58
SDuensin	Run CNN.com through the story manager? Does CNN know about this? :-)	18:59
mducharme-work	holy	18:59
mducharme-work	when did 7.8 go stable	18:59
SDuensin	Last week, I believe.	19:00
mducharme-work	I've been out of it for a few weeks and suddenly everything changes	19:00
mducharme-work	any gotchas for upgrading from 7.7.30 up through the current 7.8?	19:00
+perlDreamer	any known ones where fixed in 7.8.14 2 days ago	19:01
SDuensin	Yes. You have to make a stop at 7.7.33, I believe. Whatever the last 7.7.x is.	19:01
+perlDreamer	we need more brave souls to test upgrading on live sites for us	19:01
SDuensin	I was going to be brave last night, but the kids had other plans.	19:01
+perlDreamer	preaction: I'd really like to use Test::Sweet, but prove doesn't like i	19:05
+perlDreamer	it	19:05
mducharme-work	ok, upgrading to 7.7.33	19:13
+perlDreamer	SD, if you want a project to help WebGUI out, start a wiki page with a list of all known upgrade points and stop versions.	19:15
SDuensin	That'll be a short list. I only remember 7.7.33!	19:16
mducharme-work	hrm	19:25
mducharme-work	I'm trying to install Locales::Country like mentioned in the gotchas	19:25
mducharme-work	cpan says no such package found	19:25
mducharme-work	is that the wrong name for it?	19:26
@preaction	mducharme-work: just use testEnvironment.pl, if that works, Webgui will work	19:27
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mducharme-work	7.8.3 -------------------------------------------------------------------- * WebGUI now requires Locales::Country 0.05 or higher to use the UPS shipping driver.	19:30
mducharme-work	guys, that is a typo in the gotchas	19:31
mducharme-work	that should say Locale::Country	19:31
mducharme-work	I think	19:31
mducharme-work	because I'm able to install "Locale::Country" but "Locales::Country" does not exist	19:31
mducharme-work	should I open a ticket for the typo?	19:33
* SDuensin sighs - the roadmap wants to move configs out of the database and into the config files. Go the other way!		19:36
mducharme-work	oops.. not a typo, a newer gotcha says that was replaced with an older one	19:36
SDuensin	:-)	19:36
mducharme-work	this really should be simpler	19:36
mducharme-work	I hate parsing manually through gotcha files desparately trying to make sure I do not miss any perl module requirements	19:36
mducharme-work	7.8.14 here I come	19:40
SDuensin	:-)	19:41
mducharme-work	any new storymanager templates in 7.8.x by any chance??	19:42
* SDuensin has no idea.		19:46
mducharme-work	woo, everything works	19:46
mducharme-work	upgrade went very smooth	19:47
mducharme-work	now to upgrade my other client's server	19:47
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SDuensin	Sweet!	19:59
mducharme-work	all done	20:07
mducharme-work	all my servers are at 7.8.14 now	20:07
SDuensin	Nice! Now you're making me feel lazy!	20:09
+perlDreamer	mducharme-work, Locales::Country should have been replace by Locales...	20:28
+perlDreamer	let me check on that	20:28
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mducharme-work	perldreamer yeah it was but the old gotcha is still there	20:36
mducharme-work	thjat says to install Locales::Country, so I was trying to do that	20:36
+perlDreamer	hm, perhaps the newer one should be made clearer	20:36
mducharme-work	I go through the gotchas in sequence from oldest to newest when I am looking at what to upgrade	20:36
mducharme-work	so I saw the older module before the newer one	20:37
+perlDreamer	I'll put a note about the change next to the older one, as well	20:39
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r109f06c / docs/gotcha.txt : Make the replacement of Locale::Country with Locales more clear, w.r.t the 7.8.3 gotcha. - http://bit.ly/ciTQVf	20:54
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kimd	Evening, everyone!	21:47
+perlDreamer	yo, kimd	21:47
kimd	perlDreamer, I like your WNN!	21:49
kimd	Subscribed to the RSS feed yesterday.	21:49
kimd	Keep on writing!	21:49
+perlDreamer	thanks :). Unfortunately, it's languished for a long time.	21:49
kimd	You should advertise it a bit more.	21:49
+perlDreamer	When I started a year ago, I did	21:51
kimd	I must have missed that.	21:52
kimd	No readers?	21:52
+perlDreamer	no, just lack of time	21:53
+perlDreamer	when my wife started school full time, I lost lots of my spare time	21:53
kimd	Hm, spare time is a precious good.	21:54
kimd	I wished I had more.	21:54
kimd	But now to something completely unrelated:	21:54
kimd	Is there a switch statement in perl?	21:54
+perlDreamer	in 5.10 there is	21:54
@preaction	there is in 5.10, given/when	21:54
+perlDreamer	and in 5.8, there is a perl module called Switch, but it's a source filter and can suffer from performance and other issues	21:55
kimd	Does that mean I should not use it?	21:56
kimd	I mean, the Switch module?	21:57
kimd	We are still using 5.8 in the wre, correct?	21:57
@preaction	5.10 actually	21:57
@preaction	but we only require 5.8	21:58
@preaction	WebGUI 8 can require 5.10	21:58
kimd	I assume that means I should not use given/when yet?	21:59
+perlDreamer	if you want to make custom code for your own server, go ahead and use it	21:59
+perlDreamer	but any 5.10 specific features have to wait until WebGUI 8	21:59
+perlDreamer	no say, smart match, given/when, regexp improvements, etc	21:59
kimd	I see. Thanks for your answer.	22:00
+perlDreamer	it's a bummer, for sure. which is why we should all work hard on getting WebGUI 8 out as soon as possible	22:02
kimd	Just having my first git experience.	22:21
kimd	Why did we switch from svn to git? I found that svn was alright.	22:22
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kimd	Now I have to learn the next versioning tool.	22:22
kimd	Not that I want to complain...	22:23
kimd	It's all about flexibility these days.	22:23
+perlDreamer	that's one of the reasons we switched	22:23
+perlDreamer	git is very flexible, and it's incredibly fast compared to svn	22:24
+perlDreamer	there are some very nice tutorials for svn users who want to switch to git	22:24
kimd	Well, since I have no choice... Learning keeps you young, doesn't it?	22:28
+perlDreamer	Yeah, it does	22:40
+perlDreamer	although sometimes it can make you prematurely old	22:41
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r669f803 / t/Definition/Asset.t : check for get, set, update in Definition/Asset.t - http://bit.ly/crtio9	22:45
+perlDreamer	Haarg, somehow in Definition/Asset we're losing get, set and update from Definition::Role::Object	22:46
+perlDreamer	I committed a test to check that	22:46
+perlDreamer	and will soon be converting the Definition tests over to Test::Class for more robust testing up and down the chain	22:46
@Haarg	http://gist.github.com/322094 does this help?	22:48
+perlDreamer	no	22:50
+perlDreamer	and I'm kind of glad it didn't, because that would mean no composite roles	22:51
* perlDreamer takes a lunch break		22:52
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kimd	A question for the template experts:	23:07
kimd	What happens if a hash value set to undef is passed to template processors.	23:08
kimd	Will that cause problems are just result in an empty template var?	23:08
kimd	I am asking because I have a template var previousFile that may be empty if there is not previous file.	23:09
kimd	no	23:09
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kimd	Ok, let's leave this question open for today.	23:29
kimd	Good night everyone!	23:29
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--- Day changed Fri Mar 05 2010
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+perlDreamer	yo, rizen	01:14
@rizen	howdy	01:25
@rizen	sorry for the delay, just having a chat with stevan	01:26
+perlDreamer	no sweat	01:28
+perlDreamer	I was almost ready to ship you a liver	01:28
@rizen	ooh, me like liver. at least if it's from a child of no more than 12 years	01:29
+perlDreamer	this one is 11, so a little old	01:29
@rizen	still tender though	01:29
+perlDreamer	what happens at 12?	01:29
@rizen	they go sour	01:29
@rizen	at that point just grind them up and make dog food	01:29
+perlDreamer	well, the current liver owner is shaping up, so perhaps I'll have to order and the Frau some takeout Thai food	01:31
@rizen	amazing, i was just thinking that myself	01:32
+perlDreamer	lean a little closer to the screen, and I can tell you what you want, too	01:33
+perlDreamer	no, closer still	01:34
+perlDreamer	Sarah wants Pad Thai	01:34
+perlDreamer	hm	01:34
+perlDreamer	something interfering with the pickup	01:35
@rizen	actually she doesn't	01:35
@rizen	she's been getting other stuff lately	01:35
@rizen	i think she must be sick	01:35
+perlDreamer	definitely	01:35
@rizen	the pad thai is sooooooo good	01:35
+perlDreamer	Pad Khee Mao is better	01:35
@rizen	next time i'm in oregon i'll make you prove it	01:35
@rizen	gotta go	01:36
+perlDreamer	You're on.	01:36
@rizen	ttyl	01:36
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf5f1839 / (t/run_asset.t t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm): Begin converting t/Asset.t over to Test::Class - http://bit.ly/aZZ7a4	01:37
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r006bda8 / t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm : More Test::Class tests for AssetBase.pm - http://bit.ly/bykELB	02:08
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r053b5a8 / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Asset.pm : Rework get_tables to check each and every property. - http://bit.ly/dajC5c	02:08
+perlDreamer	Haarg: even if I just try to apply Definition::Role::Object in Definition/Asset, it still doesn't provide get/set/update/etc	02:09
+perlDreamer	they're not applying in Definition.pm, either	02:12
+perlDreamer	at least it's consistent	02:17
+perlDreamer	it was the d7b0d93a commit	02:23
+perlDreamer	so now we have no warnings, but no roles, either	02:23
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+patspam	how advanced is wG's static html exporting capabilities/	03:40
+patspam	?	03:40
@preaction	pretty advanced, the entire US embassy websites use it	03:41
@preaction	what do you need?	03:42
@preaction	there's even the Widget macro to get little parts of dynamic content inside all the static content	03:42
+patspam	sorry phone rang	03:58
+patspam	can it export a tree of page layouts and articles?	03:58
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@preaction	of course	04:05
* patspam reads AssetExportHtml.pm		04:06
+patspam	one day I should sit down and scan the source code from top to bottom, there's lots of stuff in here i never knew existed	04:06
@preaction	heh, yeah, there's a whole lot in there that i forget about ;)	04:15
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+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease, I thought you might be at the Dutch perl workshop today	18:06
+MrHairgrease	I was planning on going	18:07
+MrHairgrease	but I ended up staying in Delft	18:07
+MrHairgrease	Better luck next year	18:07
+MrHairgrease	and I _am_ going to the yapc	18:07
+MrHairgrease	eu that is	18:07
+perlDreamer	where is it this year?	18:10
+MrHairgrease	Pisa!	18:11
+perlDreamer	Do you drive, train or fly to get there?	18:14
+MrHairgrease	If I attach my vacation I'll prolly go by car	18:15
+MrHairgrease	otherwise I'll fly	18:15
+MrHairgrease	it's about a two day drive I gues	18:15
+perlDreamer	13 hours, 9 minutes	18:17
+MrHairgrease	too much for one day anyway	18:18
+perlDreamer	gotta go and help Kathy, bbl	18:18
+MrHairgrease	oki	18:18
+MrHairgrease	bye	18:19
+perlDreamer	she lost her phone at the train station	18:45
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@Haarg	finally figuring out POE a bit better. using it for a silly personal project.	19:14
@frodwith	POE++	19:21
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+perlDreamer	What do you all think of that post on the webgui.org forums, about the site redesign for the dating site?	20:19
+perlDreamer	SPAM, or legitimate request for help?	20:19
+perlDreamer	Haarg, what does the init_meta method do?	20:25
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3c790d9 / t/Definition.t : Add Role presence tests. - http://bit.ly/coUsoK	20:29
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * recd3158 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): Applying class metaroles before the other roles seems to do the right thing. - http://bit.ly/bjIRXl	20:29
@Haarg	it initializes the metaclass instance for the class	20:30
+perlDreamer	that's the problem	20:30
+perlDreamer	we can't apply roles yet	20:31
+perlDreamer	there's no meatclass	20:31
@Haarg	by the time our code gets called, there is a metaclass. but altering it definitely could interfere with the roles.	20:32
+perlDreamer	well, when I applied the metaclass roles first, it started working	20:32
+perlDreamer	tests pass	20:32
+perlDreamer	I'm going to add some role analysis code to the Definition tests	20:33
+perlDreamer	next question has to do with JSON in the database.	20:34
+perlDreamer	The subscribable asset does this by interfering with get and update	20:34
+perlDreamer	I was thinking that perhaps a Trait would be better	20:34
@Haarg	probably	20:36
@Haarg	not sure the best way to do that though	20:36
+perlDreamer	me either.	20:39
+perlDreamer	we could use around around each property that stores the JSON	20:40
+perlDreamer	but that seems like a hassle	20:40
+perlDreamer	coercion and via look nice, but they're only one way	21:32
+perlDreamer	you can put it in as a datastructure, but you get back JSON	21:32
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@frodwith	Trait that arounds the accessor sounds like the way to go to me.	22:56
@frodwith	why is it a hassle?	22:57
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@Haarg	i probably need to do some extra work for that. traits on properties don't work right now.	23:16
@Haarg	shouldn't be too bad to fix though.	23:16
+perlDreamer	as long as the trait puts it around the property, that's fine.	23:54
+perlDreamer	if I have to do it one by one, that's not so fine	23:54
--- Day changed Sat Mar 06 2010
+perlDreamer	I had a different idea while cooking dinner	00:00
+perlDreamer	if properties had a trait called 'should_serialize', then the write method would query the property, and then it would know whether to call the standard accessor, or the serialized accessor	00:00
+perlDreamer	that way, you can get to the raw data, and not have to jump through hoops with the write method needing to manually serialize the data	00:01
+perlDreamer	I was thinking of Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::ArrayRef::JSON	00:01
+perlDreamer	and similarly for HashRef::JSON	00:02
+perlDreamer	and then we have something we can give back to the community via CPAN	00:02
+perlDreamer	any way, I need to go pick up my sons at school	00:02
+perlDreamer	see you all later	00:02
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb5e03dd / lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm : Remove dead method with the same name as a property. - http://bit.ly/afusHD	00:42
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6f9b891 / t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm : Convert more tests over to Test::Class - http://bit.ly/bFsCFd	01:17
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r029655d / asset_status.ods : Add a sheet to track Roles. - http://bit.ly/9KVKsz	01:17
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--- Day changed Sun Mar 07 2010
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Getty	before i do something bad, can i install it via CPAN? cause the webpage "recommends" to use that but i dont know if that includes cpan way of install	03:39
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+perlDreamer	Getty, you cannot install WebGUI from CPAN.	05:09
+perlDreamer	you can download a full VM, you can download the WRE (which is basically application level install with full software stack) or you do a "source install" where you download the WebGUI source, install the modules, configure apache, mysql, set up the filesystem and run it yourself.	05:10
Getty	the middle version, please, where is the exit? ;) j/k	05:11
Getty	ok so i got already a running environment	05:11
Getty	then i should prefer the source install if i know what i do in general? ;)	05:12
Getty	i wanted to install it via CPAN on a local::lib path for the webserver vhost, so that would be then source install of modules + local::lib with the same result, right?	05:13
Getty	or is there anything special that blocks that plan?	05:13
+perlDreamer	for the WebGUI modules, no	05:16
+perlDreamer	but several of the support scripts expect to be close to the lib directory	05:16
+perlDreamer	as in ../lib only	05:16
+perlDreamer	if you know what you're doing in general, you can do a source install	05:16
+perlDreamer	although one other reason to use the WRE is performance	05:16
+perlDreamer	it sets up two different servers, one small one as reverse proxy and static file server, and one "heavy" one to handle mod_perl	05:17
Getty	but it would collide with my personal install?	05:17
+perlDreamer	you can set your environment to keep them separate, except for MySQL	05:18
+perlDreamer	it depends on what you want to do with it	05:18
+perlDreamer	if you want to tinker, a source install is best	05:18
Getty	actually microsite, private, no hits	05:18
Getty	i just want to use a perl CMS	05:18
+perlDreamer	a source install is right up your alley then	05:18
+perlDreamer	download WebGUI	05:18
Getty	and start doing what i prayed now on the cebit for 1 week	05:18
+perlDreamer	untar it in /data	05:18
+perlDreamer	run /data/WebGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl to check for requirements and/or install them	05:19
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/wiki/source-install	05:20
+perlDreamer	that page has all the gory details	05:20
Getty	cool	05:22
Getty	a little bad that noone actually told me about WebGUI before the CeBIT	05:22
+perlDreamer	Why?	05:22
Getty	cause the "CMS" stuff was a theme from time to time and we didnt had any suggestion beside Bruccolage or how its written	05:23
Getty	i was there representing perl	05:23
+perlDreamer	our promotional efforts for WebGUI wax and wane	05:24
+perlDreamer	two years ago they did the whole conference tour in the US	05:24
+perlDreamer	and came to YAPC EU in portugal last summer	05:24
Getty	oh cool, so that isnt that bad for you	05:24
+perlDreamer	no, but more users is always better	05:24
Getty	yeah but CeBIT is actually really big as you know probably	05:24
Getty	actually we took lots of contacts with us of people and companies who wanna do more with perl	05:24
Getty	and now i got WebGUI as something to show, actually with that installer process you said its really an awesome idea	05:25
Getty	but i must dive into it to REALLY value it, cause i also do own CMS activities (which i didnt promoted on CeBIT ;) ) and do the CMS agency business since the stuff is there, i'm very critic	05:26
+perlDreamer	well, feel free to come back with questions, comments and criticisms	05:26
Getty	i stay here :-P	05:26
* Getty never leaves ;)		05:26
+perlDreamer	well, feel free to say here and ask questions, too ;)	05:27
Getty	hehe ;)	05:27
Getty	its 4:30 here, at 8:30 i must getup for the "last breakfast" with all other perl dudes of cebit before we leave hannover	05:27
Getty	and i didnt slept more then 4-5 hours the last 5 days	05:28
Getty	i'm so wasted	05:28
+perlDreamer	is that pretty common for a CeBIT?	05:28
Getty	if you want to promote perl AT ALL COST, yes	05:28
Getty	i did many contacts via drinking at the after show parties	05:28
Getty	that was actually my speciality of the crew	05:28
Getty	but that way i opened up a dialog to IBM, lets see whats come out there	05:29
Getty	and russia and macedonien	05:29
+perlDreamer	cool. Someone was been adding to the Russian WebGUI translation recently, but it is still low in overall coverage	05:29
Getty	on russia i got mainly contact to research and development of russia, dont know how much "CMS" they actually need	05:30
Getty	we are also more there to open a dialog	05:30
Getty	its about knowing what is missing for more perl on business	05:30
Getty	btw: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl-Staff	05:30
+perlDreamer	cool, open-source conference staffing	05:36
Getty	i made the t-shirts and will make more for other events	05:37
Getty	i like webgui, i mean the presentation is awesome	05:42
Getty	i need sleep n8	05:44
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elnino	so. I have an article asset, with a flv and a jpg attachemnt. I was hoping I could get the flv by using attachment.url and the image by using image.url, or do I have to use the attachment loop, and chech for isimage and assume that when false, it's the flv? Make sense?	07:51
@preaction	heh, CeBIT sounds like the last WUC I was at	08:41
* preaction only missed 4 hours of presentations due to hangover		08:41
@preaction	which reminds me i have to register for the next YAPC	08:41
@preaction	elnino: use the loop, it's more reliable	08:42
elnino	ok. thanks preaction.	08:42
* preaction wishes you could just put those attachments inside the article yourself		08:42
elnino	I remember such conversation not to long ago.	08:42
@preaction	yeah, it still hurts	08:43
elnino	=)	08:43
@preaction	it will hurt until it gets fixed	08:43
@preaction	if i could nuke all of WebGUI 7 and 8 and rebuild it all from scratch...	08:43
@preaction	oh wait, i'm already doing it... http://github.com/preaction/modern-webgui	08:43
elnino	you are a very busy person.	08:44
@preaction	not really, haven't worked on that in 3 months :'(	08:47
elnino	perhaps that is true at github, but I know here you are.	08:48
@preaction	well, yeah i'm working on other stuff	08:48
elnino	I'm calling it quits. Too much fun for the weekend. Putting video site together using flowplayer. kinda cool.	08:49
@preaction	heard good things about flowplayer, but yeah, it's sunday now, get some rest sheesh	08:49
elnino	so is github the new sourceforge?	08:49
@preaction	pretty much yeah	08:49
@preaction	git is soooooo much nicer than svn	08:49
@preaction	like ten thousand percent nicer	08:50
elnino	hmm. I'll look at git later.. Good night!	08:52
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Getty	so... finally home from cebit, now i can checkout webgui and check if i can make a webpage with blog in an hour ;)	20:05
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doc777	Hello friends. We recently upgraded to 7.7.33-stable and all our log in boxes, most of the user profile boxes, and the create account boxes are at 100 pixels now. They scroll off the side of the page. This seems to be the case in admin settings as well. Did I miss something?	21:24
Getty	LOL that is really purposed that if i do: perl testEnvironment.pl --help i get the source in my viewer? ;)	21:38
Getty	ah no, i see, its a debian workaround for people who dont have perl-doc, so ok :) never came to that	21:41
doc777	Anyone know why our username boxes all went to 100 px after our upgrade? The text boxes scroll off the side the page :o)	22:23
doc777	I upgraded to 7.8.14 to see if it would help but they are still the same looks like.	22:24
Getty	damn it, the parser cant read my config	22:58
doc777	lol, there is a setting in the Admin > setting >ui now for Text Box Size and it was set to 100. After an hour of digging through templates and macros I found it :o)	22:59
Getty	bad question: does it actually require 5.8? or does it also work with 5.10	23:01
doc777	What are you trying to do? :o)	23:03
@preaction	Getty: 5.10 is fine	23:03
Getty	http://paste.debian.net/63039/	23:04
Getty	i dont get it, what he has as problem, the json itself looks fine	23:07
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@preaction	Getty: paste your config file	23:13
Getty	yeah mom	23:14
@preaction	trailing commas is usually the culprit	23:14
Getty	http://paste.debian.net/63043/	23:14
Getty	the last trailing comma?	23:14
Getty	cause i put it in cause it was also on the page	23:14
@preaction	that's your entire config file?	23:15
Getty	i do a source install	23:15
Getty	going after the help in the wiki	23:15
@preaction	yes, but you have to start from WebGUI.conf.original	23:15
@preaction	otherwise here you have no assets, no admin console items, no nothing really	23:16
Getty	AH! i missed that step	23:16
Getty	ok thta would explain it probably ;)	23:16
@preaction	also, the entire thing is a hash, so it should be surrounded with { ... }	23:16
Getty	true, but my brain is just half working, i just went after the doc	23:17
Getty	and missed one step ;)	23:17
Getty	classic	23:17
@preaction	it happens. problem is that most of this stuff is easy to determine (or easy to ask for), so we should really have a script to create site configs (and generate apache or other configs from a wg site config)	23:18
Getty	yeah its all a bit shacky, but you guys seem to concentrated on the features ;) cause it took hours to install all the modules ;)	23:20
Getty	for example i was confused that this preload script really needs a fix of the path	23:21
@preaction	yeah, that's my biggest pet peeve	23:22
Getty	OH!	23:22
Getty	now i got a problem	23:22
Getty	jhehe	23:22
Getty	i now have it working, and it directly startups the config (logical).. and i made that all on my live site hehe	23:23
Getty	i mean i stopped it now	23:23
Getty	aehm.,... mmhh.. must allow my ip only.. baeh stress....	23:23
Getty	or wait, can i force that with the adminip?	23:23
Getty	so that noone else get the admin?	23:23
Getty	i mean that init stuff	23:23
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@preaction	i think that's what that is for	23:24
Getty	ok lets see	23:24
@preaction	and when you change config, remember to restart apache	23:24
Getty	bad to test hehe	23:25
Getty	its stopped right now anyway	23:25
Getty	spectre actually only uses spectre.conf right?	23:25
Getty	so restarting of him is not often required? or what is the regular way to go for him?	23:26
Getty	dont know what that daemon does	23:26
@preaction	no, it reads the other configs to know where to go, but unless you change the sitename or spectreIp or spectreSubnets you don't need to restart spectre	23:26
@preaction	spectre is the offline execution engine, like cronjobs but also things that take too long to do in realtime with the user waiting for a page response	23:26
Getty	ah nice idea	23:27
Getty	does it really use IKC? cause i saw that module on the list of required stuff	23:28
@preaction	yes, in order to pull status requests from outside (using the same spectre.pl script you can get the status of spectre)	23:28
Getty	it doesnt work with the admin subnet	23:31
Getty	i tried it with lynx on the server and still so the init config :-/	23:32
@preaction	oh, the admin bar doesn't work with lynx, it's javascript-only	23:32
@preaction	admin mode requires javascript	23:32
@preaction	however, a quick ssh tunnel could fix that up for you	23:32
@preaction	that's usually what i do when i need to get around The Big Firewall to administer some stuff	23:33
Getty	wait wait	23:35
Getty	i'm still at the config	23:35
Getty	first startup	23:35
Getty	that i wanted to have blocked to a specific IP	23:36
Getty	cause i do that all here on a live system (my private site, so who cares)	23:36
Getty	but i got regulary hits	23:36
Getty	dont want someone else to config my stuff ;)	23:36
Getty	now i made allow/deny in the apache2	23:36
Getty	wowowowowoowowowowoww	23:47
Getty	that stuff is heavy	23:47
Getty	awesome work	23:47
Getty	i'm impressed	23:47
Getty	right now i just got total overflow, now idea where to start really	23:49
Getty	but ok it runs... ;)	23:49
Getty	but the admin menu is totally confusing and actually now i got even an error about the display	23:52
@preaction	https://www.plainblack.com/services/training/webgui-primer <- free webgui primer might help	23:55
@preaction	but the error, pastebin that and i'll see what's up	23:55
Getty	its just displaying error, the cascading failed, or it was just to slow loading, dont know, didnt happened so far	23:58
Getty	but the menu is confusing, that always the left side "goes away" and you stand in the middle of nowhere	23:58
Getty	actually i have totally no idea how i edit the menu so remove add new files there or delete the existing one	23:59
Getty	ah that is no error	23:59
Getty	if i watch the navigation emnu .. yeah ok.. i get it	23:59
--- Day changed Mon Mar 08 2010
Getty	ey is there a "make anything empty" button? ;) lol	00:00
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Getty	re good morning and all :) more activity now?	10:36
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SDuensin	Greetings.	18:13
+perlDreamer	Hey, SDuensin	18:14
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+perlDreamer	preaction: what kind of evaluation did you do with HTML::Packer when used with HTML::Template?	19:02
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+perlDreamer	bartjol: I did some remodeling work this weekend.	19:26
+perlDreamer	I still hurt	19:26
+perlDreamer	No pictures are available, either	19:27
+bartjol	ah,	19:27
+bartjol	how did it hurt?	19:27
+bartjol	on your eyes?	19:27
+perlDreamer	no, crawling on rafters in the attic	19:28
+perlDreamer	hands, knees, elbows	19:29
+perlDreamer	neck, back, legs	19:29
+bartjol	aah	19:31
+perlDreamer	I needed to reroute some electricity to a new outlet	19:32
+perlDreamer	for a new microwave	19:32
+bartjol	in the big hole in the wall	19:32
+perlDreamer	because we killed the old microwave by putting it on a heavily loaded circuit	19:32
+perlDreamer	fortunately, no big holes	19:32
+bartjol	I thought you made the hole, to fit the microwave in	19:33
+perlDreamer	we took out part of a cabinet	19:33
+perlDreamer	this weekend, during the install, I'll take some pictures	19:33
+bartjol	nice	19:34
+bartjol	I mainly stuggled with a driver today, but I won!	19:34
+perlDreamer	driver? Van, bus, bicycle or car?	19:37
+bartjol	bluetooth computer driver	19:38
dionak	are you remodeling your kitchen perlDreamer?	19:38
+perlDreamer	we are adding a new microwave over the stove	19:38
+bartjol	but I'm off, have fun	19:38
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dionak	we're prepping to gut our entire kitchen at home. maybe starting april or may	19:44
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dreamersgirl	it's quiet today.	20:13
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+perlDreamer	dionak, we'd like to do that too	21:04
+perlDreamer	something about rough finished plywood cabinetry from the '60s is just not that appealing anymore :)	21:04
dionak	yea, we're feeling the same perlDreamer.	21:06
dionak	must have been cool & hip at the time	21:06
* perlDreamer is thinking "cheap", "quick" and "easy"		21:07
+perlDreamer	none of the cabinet or drawer faces have trim work. so the plywood has chipped	21:07
dionak	we've already done the cheap, quick and easy. it's time to do a bigger overhaul so we can quit getting annoyed by not being able to walk through the kitchen when the fridge is open. ;)	21:13
dionak	it's going to be an undertaking to say the least..	21:13
dionak	quick question...	21:13
dionak	could the upgrade of WebGUI be enhanced to check to see if tables exist before trying to create them?	21:14
dionak	seems like that would make upgrading easier	21:14
+perlDreamer	it would certainly help with repeating upgrades, or handling hand backported code	21:15
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+perlDreamer	and it would be more of an enforcement check than anything	21:16
+perlDreamer	since so many different authors contribute code	21:17
+perlDreamer	we'd have to review the table insert code by hand	21:17
dionak	you mean table create?	21:17
+perlDreamer	yes	21:18
dionak	true...	21:18
+perlDreamer	are you still having upgrade hiccups?	21:18
dionak	i'm thinking that before anything is done, a sub should execute to check that any table creations do not already exist	21:18
dionak	yes	21:18
dionak	damn thing is working now when it should be broken. ;)	21:19
+perlDreamer	I hate it when that happens	21:19
dionak	lol, yea	21:19
+perlDreamer	like when I do electrical work at home, and it works the first time	21:19
+perlDreamer	I don't know whether to be proud, or suspicious...	21:19
dionak	exactly!	21:19
dionak	or if it will come back to bite me later	21:20
+perlDreamer	yeah	21:20
+perlDreamer	Am I having deja vu, or didn't we talk about this last week or so?	21:20
+perlDreamer	the solution was to drop the database before rerunning the upgrade	21:20
+perlDreamer	since importing the backup code will not remove the new tables	21:21
dionak	yea, we did. this is the first chance i've had to work on it. it's more of a data corruption issue with orphaned assetIds in the db	21:21
dionak	i've been writing a script to find orphans so i can address them and either 1) find a home or 2) remove them	21:21
dionak	.. by either	21:21
dionak	e.g. - there's an entry in assetData but not asset for an ID	21:22
+perlDreamer	seems like there are so many cases	21:22
+perlDreamer	asset, but not assetData	21:22
+perlDreamer	assetData, but not Asset	21:22
+perlDreamer	... not Wobject	21:22
dionak	yes	21:22
+perlDreamer	or not table specific	21:22
+perlDreamer	or in those tables, but not asset;	21:22
+perlDreamer	and the worst will be Photo, or Newsletter	21:23
dionak	why's that?	21:23
+perlDreamer	since they are Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo (4 tables)	21:23
dionak	ugh	21:23
+perlDreamer	Asset/Wobect/Collaboration/Newsletter (also 4 tables)	21:23
dionak	ok, now you're just pushing me away perlDreamer :/	21:24
+perlDreamer	no, I don't mean to do that	21:24
dionak	kidding	21:24
dionak	it's a pita	21:24
dionak	(not kidding)	21:24
+perlDreamer	exactly	21:24
+perlDreamer	one of the wg8 suggestions was to flatten the tables	21:25
+perlDreamer	and make them non-, uh	21:25
+perlDreamer	hm	21:25
+perlDreamer	unnormalized	21:25
dionak	what about innodb?	21:25
+perlDreamer	innodb is slower in performance, I believe	21:25
+perlDreamer	the goal of this was actually to speed it up	21:25
+perlDreamer	by not spreading the data across several tables and thereby dropping the joins	21:26
+perlDreamer	I want to say it was 8x faster	21:26
dionak	how much slower is it to work with given the added complexity? or does it make it simplier?	21:26
+perlDreamer	it's simpler	21:27
+perlDreamer	writing only writes to 1 table	21:27
+perlDreamer	and reading only reads from 1 table	21:27
+perlDreamer	no joins	21:27
+perlDreamer	searching is now much more difficult	21:27
dionak	ls	21:27
dionak	oops	21:27
dionak	i definitely think that asset and assetData could collapse	21:28
dionak	theoretically	21:29
+perlDreamer	wouldn't it be weird to have versioned and unversioned data in the same table?	21:31
dionak	hm, you're right	21:33
dionak	i have a script now that mostly figures out orphaned data. going to test it on a staging server now	21:33
* dionak needs coffee		21:36
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd0884af / (10 files in 3 dirs): Do not remove newlines from Templates (or Snippets) since HTML::Packer does not handle newlines with H::T syntax. Fixes bug #11458 - http://bit.ly/du0jQ9	21:39
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1e4fb86 / (10 files in 3 dirs): Do not remove newlines from Templates (or Snippets) since HTML::Packer does not handle newlines with H::T syntax. Fixes bug #11458 - http://bit.ly/ayCW6v	21:39
+perlDreamer	Haarg, it happened again, only backwards this time	21:41
+perlDreamer	on the 7.7 upgrade, since there was no import node in the package none of the isPackage or isDefault properties were set	21:42
+perlDreamer	now, since there is an import node, EVERY asset below import had isPackage turned off, and isDefault set to 1	21:43
+perlDreamer	what we need is metadata out of the package	21:45
+perlDreamer	a list of all assetIds that it touched	21:45
+perlDreamer	and then we post process those alone	21:46
+perlDreamer	so it no uses lineage at all	21:46
+perlDreamer	we could also add more options to importAssetData, like "clearPackageFlag" and "setDefaultTemplate"	21:53
+perlDreamer	Haarg, preaction, I'm leaning pretty heavily toward adding options. In lieu of any feedback, I'll decide when I come back from a run.	22:01
@preaction	the options sounds fine to me	22:01
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--- Day changed Tue Mar 09 2010
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CIA-58	webgui: Luke Robinson master * rc61e745 / (8 files in 4 dirs): An Ajax check on the username field at registration - http://bit.ly/9aF0WD	01:25
CIA-58	webgui: Luke Robinson master * rc03bcc3 / (3 files in 3 dirs):	01:25
CIA-58	webgui: use the FormHelper instead of the Auth system for the Ajax check	01:25
CIA-58	webgui: on Username - http://bit.ly/az9kKr	01:25
CIA-58	webgui: Luke Robinson master * r240eb10 / www/extras/form/fieldCheck.js : call getWebguiProperty('extrasURL') - http://bit.ly/ckBI7A	01:25
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CIA-58	webgui: Doug Bell master * rc8ad650 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : added changelog entry - http://bit.ly/9OFNuE	01:29
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rcf43e5e / (6 files in 3 dirs): Reset the isDefault flag on core assets only, and provide a final way fix this crap once and for all. - http://bit.ly/9KUaFI	02:32
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3113905 / (3 files): Prune duplicate code for post package work. - http://bit.ly/9GqmMQ	02:32
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r84704d2 / (4 files): Fix syntax errors, and remove duplicate code from the skeleton. - http://bit.ly/9Lebud	02:32
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfe31cc9 / (5 files in 3 dirs): Reset the isDefault flag on core assets only, and provide a final way fix this crap once and for all. - http://bit.ly/dBPDML	02:37
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdf31846 / (2 files): Prune duplicate code for post package work. - http://bit.ly/ahh2Zb	02:37
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2053d3e / (3 files): Fix syntax errors, and remove duplicate code from the skeleton. - http://bit.ly/dbNxFm	02:37
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r35492ca / (3 files in 2 dirs): Remove old WebGUI 7.7 files - http://bit.ly/9yt3Vo	02:37
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8f95101 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Allow the default Search root to be overridden by a form variable. Adds RFE #11460. - http://bit.ly/bPBryq	03:09
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:25
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+bartjol	morning scott	16:30
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+bartjol	cool, someone tried to sell us virtual servers	17:59
+perlDreamer	bartjol, you _need_ virtual servers	17:59
+perlDreamer	they are so much better than real servers	18:00
+bartjol	well, we need them allright, otherwise we haven't got anything to sell	18:00
+bartjol	oh, and a conscience question: which bathroom looks better, mine, or Tavis's?	18:01
+perlDreamer	I've never been in Tavis's bathroom, so I couldn't say	18:02
+perlDreamer	is he advertising it somewhere?	18:02
+perlDreamer	you bathroom is much better than any of mine, however	18:02
+bartjol	it was also on facebook	18:02
+bartjol	any of yours....	18:03
+bartjol	patser	18:03
+perlDreamer	bartjol, I don't have a facebook account	18:03
+bartjol	your wife has	18:03
+bartjol	just hack into her account	18:03
+perlDreamer	afaik, hacking (even into a wife's account) is illegal	18:04
Getty	legal, illegal....	18:04
Getty	"details"	18:04
+bartjol	smetails	18:04
+perlDreamer	legal, illegal	18:04
+perlDreamer	good, evil	18:04
+perlDreamer	matter, antimatter	18:05
+perlDreamer	polar opposites	18:05
Getty	jedi, sith	18:05
+perlDreamer	now, dead vs partially dead is about details	18:05
Getty	its not all black & white, be darth vader!	18:05
+perlDreamer	or should I say "mostly dead"	18:05
Getty	hey, i installed btw webgui now	18:05
+bartjol	mostly harmless	18:05
Getty	directly run into one big "security" problem	18:05
+bartjol	ah	18:05
Getty	about first time install	18:05
+bartjol	which is?	18:05
Getty	i'm a geek, so i used my own live site for the direct install, so.... must i talk further?	18:06
+bartjol	mmm	18:06
Getty	i had to make Allow/Deny stuff	18:06
Getty	to prevent others from reaching my vhost	18:06
Getty	the admin-network setting doesnt work for the install	18:06
+bartjol	in modproxy you mean?	18:06
Getty	with apache stuff, is that modproxy? dont know	18:07
+bartjol	yes	18:07
Getty	<Directory /> Deny....	18:07
Getty	you know what i mean	18:07
+bartjol	yeah	18:07
Getty	i tried before with the admin-network setting in webgui	18:07
Getty	and tested	18:07
Getty	but this doesnt protect it	18:07
+bartjol	is that a default apache directive?	18:09
Getty	no no i mean in webgui.conf	18:13
Getty	there i can setup an admin-network-range	18:13
Getty	this is ignored for install, which is bad if you do it directly on a known site	18:13
+bartjol	well, if you set such a thing, you want it to work	18:15
+bartjol	I haven't used that option yet	18:15
+perlDreamer	except it doens't cover that	18:15
+perlDreamer	"admin network" is the network setting that allows/prevents people to go into Admin mode	18:16
+perlDreamer	it does not cover setup/install	18:16
+bartjol	ooh	18:16
+perlDreamer	but that sounds like a good feature to add	18:16
+perlDreamer	Getty, development for our next version is currently open, so if you want to file an RFE at webgui.org/rfe, it will be considered	18:16
+perlDreamer	of course, RFEs filed with patches are much more likely to get added more quickly	18:17
+bartjol	well, since that is always on a port 60834, we open that only in our firewall for ourselves, which might not be very save as default	18:17
+perlDreamer	bartjol, this is WebGUI install, not wreconsole	18:17
+bartjol	ah	18:17
+bartjol	I thought that used the same port, learned something again	18:18
+perlDreamer	no, all that stuff is served over port 80 via a content handler	18:18
+bartjol	ah	18:18
+bartjol	well, then it isn't a very save feature	18:19
-!- stDavid [~stDavid@static-72-64-138-146.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzzzzz]		18:19
+perlDreamer	maybe we should consider it a bug	18:19
+perlDreamer	it seems low risk, since you have a limited window of opportunity	18:20
+bartjol	but I always do a "mail to all" when I install webgui	18:20
+bartjol	sorry	18:20
+bartjol	time of day I suppose	18:21
Getty	perlDreamer: i'm involved into many projects and go more and more into the "oh dudes i fill up your bugtracker all day so that you will hate me" dude, even tho i dont see much wrong on your side so far	18:22
Getty	the other "big problem" i see and which you probably already know is your <censored> admin interface	18:22
Getty	its totally confusing where to find what and if you edit something its different again, that is a bit chaotic	18:23
Getty	i think this has historical reasons ;)	18:23
Getty	but dudes, when i started this stuff now, i want to startup clean, or lets say, i want to setup step by step what i want, that premade site confuses me.... i worked with some commercial CMS with generally followed your concept of coordination for the data, so its all very clear i think when i get into the first steps	18:25
+perlDreamer	Getty, I'm not sure what you mean by "when you edit something it's different again"	18:26
+perlDreamer	and we never hate people who file bugs	18:27
+perlDreamer	if more people filed bugs, WebGUI would be better	18:27
+bartjol	perlDreamer loves to solve bugs, he eats them for breakfast	18:27
Getty	yeah and i will fill bugs, but i think its a good choice, even tho i got my own concepts running, WebGUI should be something that gives a "second leg"	18:27
Getty	hehehe	18:27
Getty	yummie	18:27
+perlDreamer	the only problem we've had in the past is what some people consider bugs are really enhancements	18:27
+perlDreamer	and if so, we move them to the RFE board instead of the bug board	18:28
Getty	oh i think i will make the definitions right at that point, doing that stuff long enough	18:28
Getty	but so tell me... how i would actually get my site empty and can start defining "first page"? or probably i could say what i want in final cause i dont need much	18:28
Getty	but i made so much contacts on the cebit and need definitly fast a good page best with a perl CMS so that i can also promote that i did it with WebGUI	18:29
Getty	someone else just suggested me FosWIKI and i dont want to go with kindergarten stuff, i'm enterprise (even for my homepage) hehe	18:29
+bartjol	in the settings you can define your homepage	18:29
+perlDreamer	to clear the default content, log in as an admin	18:29
+perlDreamer	turn on admin mode	18:29
+perlDreamer	go to Assets	18:29
+perlDreamer	go to the Root node	18:29
+perlDreamer	select the home page	18:30
+perlDreamer	and trash it	18:30
Getty	sounds like a plan	18:30
+perlDreamer	that will remove all the default content	18:30
+bartjol	and empty the trash, that's looks nice for your lineage	18:30
Getty	good :)	18:30
+perlDreamer	and frees up the URLs, too	18:30
+perlDreamer	good call bartjol	18:30
+bartjol	Getty: you will get stuck with those articles on each site you add	18:30
Getty	mh?	18:31
Getty	dont get that you wanna say with this?	18:31
Getty	oh	18:31
Getty	yes	18:31
+bartjol	ah, that every time you add a site	18:31
Getty	you mean its there on every startup	18:31
Getty	yeah logical :)	18:31
+bartjol	those articles will be there to be deleted	18:31
+bartjol	indeed :)	18:31
Getty	but i think i can bring on a WebGUI module which gives me the chance to say: hey i want my own startup definition, right?	18:32
+bartjol	sure you can make that	18:32
Getty	see, problem solved	18:32
Getty	technology owns!	18:32
+perlDreamer	you'd have to alter create.sql	18:32
+perlDreamer	so it's a little more complex than that	18:32
+bartjol	but after an upgrade the default file is overridden	18:32
Getty	i would actually modify the install procedure that way	18:32
+perlDreamer	it would be better to run a post-install script that does the dirty work for you	18:32
+bartjol	well, I considered that part as logical for a geek :P	18:33
+perlDreamer	removing the default content, and installing some other package	18:33
+bartjol	that would be a lovely script	18:33
Getty	well as professional i would consider as most luxury if i could define my own "install procedure way" which also automatically installs the DB tables without doing any create.sql insert by my own	18:33
Getty	yeah i'm the one with the evil wishes	18:34
+perlDreamer	no, other people have wished for that as well	18:34
Getty	can we actually do this with a module?	18:34
+perlDreamer	no	18:34
Getty	or would that go to deep?	18:34
Getty	so its a bug	18:34
Getty	lol	18:34
+perlDreamer	the default content is installed with create.sql	18:34
+perlDreamer	along with the default users, groups, templates, css, settings, etc.	18:35
* bartjol is thinking utility script		18:35
Getty	yeah but i dont want to put the create.sql myself	18:35
Getty	i'm lazy	18:35
+perlDreamer	that's what the WRE is for :)	18:35
Getty	i want to give him database user/password and he does that for me	18:35
+perlDreamer	addsite.pl	18:35
+bartjol	he? JT?	18:35
Getty	yeah but i'm also offering it on my own facilities ;)	18:35
Getty	even tho i LOVE the idea of WRE	18:36
+perlDreamer	that's the tradeoff you make	18:36
Getty	its awesome	18:36
+perlDreamer	but I'm sure the WRE utilities could be changed to work outside the WRE	18:37
+bartjol	but goodday to you sirs	18:38
Getty	ok i will go to the bank now and then get some red bull	18:38
+perlDreamer	later, house-hacker	18:38
Getty	then i will try that with cleaning up the content	18:38
Getty	andstartup my site	18:38
+bartjol	someone elses house today	18:38
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Getty	perlDreamer: you stay here? ;)	18:39
* perlDreamer will be in and out all day long		18:39
+perlDreamer	I go the gym, then work	18:39
+perlDreamer	eat lunch, then work	18:39
+perlDreamer	pick up the children from school, then work	18:39
+perlDreamer	fix dinner, then work	18:39
+perlDreamer	it's PWM for employment	18:39
Getty	i'm fat, no gym	18:40
Getty	i got a dude who cooks for me, eating at computer	18:40
Getty	i dont have kids	18:40
Getty	and i also work from home	18:40
Getty	so.. actually	18:40
Getty	why i stand up? oh yes toilet	18:40
+perlDreamer	and to get red bull	18:40
Getty	yes!	18:40
Getty	but thats flying ;)	18:40
Getty	so back on track	18:52
Getty	ok i startup the WebGUI again on my site	18:52
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rf4f3f0c / (2 files in 2 dirs): Handle the edge case when a subscription group has been deleted, but the the Subscribable entry has not been cleaned up. Fixes bug #11456. - http://bit.ly/b9aiWr	18:52
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf55acec / (2 files in 2 dirs): Handle the edge case when a subscription group has been deleted, but the the Subscribable entry has not been cleaned up. Fixes bug #11456. - http://bit.ly/aOVFUI	18:53
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r58c25e3 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Fix changelog formatting. - http://bit.ly/daFOmB	18:53
Getty	now its suddenly german?!	19:02
Getty	i dont get it, when i installed it, i choosed german, then it was german, then it was suddenly english everything and now its german again... mh	19:02
+perlDreamer	Getty, language settings are user dependent	19:03
Getty	i just used one user so far	19:04
Getty	on the default install	19:04
Getty	what is the root node? isnt it "getting started"?	19:04
Getty	cause deleting that one wasnt any effect	19:04
+perlDreamer	no, go into the Admin Console and select Assets	19:04
Getty	yeah	19:04
Getty	i am there	19:04
+perlDreamer	On the top there's a crumb trail. Choose Root	19:05
Getty	AH!	19:05
Getty	a bit small ok get it	19:05
Getty	Home then delete ok	19:05
+perlDreamer	then Admin Console->Trash	19:05
+perlDreamer	then select and purge	19:05
Getty	wait	19:05
Getty	its still there	19:05
Getty	yeah tried it again	19:06
Getty	no effect	19:06
Getty	clicked on "Home" then Delete	19:06
+perlDreamer	check your log files	19:06
Getty	and he does something	19:06
Getty	you say that so easy mom	19:06
+perlDreamer	sorry, standard user debug flow	19:07
Getty	webgui.log doesnt throws an error	19:07
Getty	i had to search where i have put the logfile ;) i did the install 2 days ago	19:07
+perlDreamer	it's the log level, it's set too high	19:07
+perlDreamer	the problem is that /home is set to be the default page for the site	19:07
+perlDreamer	create some other page for now, in the Settings, choose the other page	19:08
+perlDreamer	then it will let you delete the default content	19:08
Getty	ok	19:08
+perlDreamer	either that, or just delete all content below the home page	19:08
+perlDreamer	takes more clicks	19:08
Getty	ok i made a new page	19:09
Getty	but it doesnt have the "+"	19:09
Getty	i think that is what it needs, or?	19:09
Getty	ah no that is just there is something under it, ok	19:09
Getty	now i'M getting it	19:10
+perlDreamer	right, + means the asset has children	19:10
+perlDreamer	have you downloaded and read the WebGUI Starter guide?	19:10
Getty	http://www.raudssus.de/ :D	19:11
Getty	i want to ;)	19:11
+perlDreamer	that gives me a 403 error	19:12
Getty	oh yes wait	19:12
Getty	reload ;)	19:12
+perlDreamer	much better	19:15
+perlDreamer	now, go to the marketplace page on webgui.org and download a good looking style to install	19:16
* perlDreamer goes to the gym for punishment		19:16
Getty	have fun	19:16
Getty	mh	19:18
Getty	where to upload it now	19:18
Getty	i always get error on extracting :-/	19:26
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+perlDreamer	Getty, if the package is very old, it may not work on recent WebGUI's	20:17
+perlDreamer	also, it would be good to examine the log files to see what the problem was	20:18
+perlDreamer	a very common user problem is permissions on the upload directory	20:18
+perlDreamer	the upload directory and all children need to be writable by the apache process owner	20:18
Getty	i had it now with 2 themes	20:21
Getty	actually the only 2 themes which i like really	20:21
Getty	mh ok probably its just that	20:21
Getty	let me check log	20:22
Getty	yes it is that ;)	20:22
Getty	AH! wait!	20:22
Getty	he suggest wrong path	20:22
Getty	ok got it	20:22
Getty	damn it again	20:23
+perlDreamer	a whole series from Damian about vim scripting: http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2010/03/whats-the-mad-doctor-doing.html	20:28
Getty	i dont get this step: Click on the "class icon" of the page layout asset that is your home page. The Layout asset is very similar to a page and has an icon on the far left side of the edit toolbar that resembles a piece of paper. If you hover over this icon, it will say "Page Layout". This icon is called the "class icon"	20:28
Getty	i'm at the page layout asset, and edited it but i dont see that piece of paper icon?	20:28
+perlDreamer	It's a little obtuse	20:31
+perlDreamer	The class icon is displayed with the other toolbar icons	20:31
+perlDreamer	cut, copy, paste, delete, make shortcut, edit	20:31
+perlDreamer	if you actually edit it, you won't get the class icon with the drop down menu	20:31
+perlDreamer	that will be changed in WebGUI 8	20:31
@preaction	did we fix the bug that puts "HASH(0xDEADBEEF)" : null, in the config files?	20:37
@preaction	looks like it's in the macros part	20:38
@preaction	there's also a "null" in the workflowActivities part	20:38
+perlDreamer	we did fix that bug	20:39
@preaction	you know, why the hell do we define which macros and workflow activities ARE in the config, when we should be defining the ones that AREN'T	20:39
+perlDreamer	it's just historical	20:39
Getty	i still cant see it, but i must reboot my PC now have to cleanup my mess of desk, i be back in 5 minutes, if you could have a screenshot which links to the icon it would be awesome LOL ;)	20:40
Getty	so bbl	20:40
+perlDreamer	if you want a "lean site", you'll exclude a lot	20:40
+perlDreamer	it's just another aspect of the same problem	20:40
@preaction	but most people don't want that, ever	20:40
@preaction	the most likely configuration is "everything installed"	20:40
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't assume that	20:41
+perlDreamer	preaction, which site are you seeing the bad config data?	20:41
@preaction	our config file has 715 lines in it	20:41
@preaction	this is for PIRG	20:41
@preaction	over SEVEN HUNDRED LINES in the config file	20:41
+perlDreamer	that's because they have a bunch of CDN stuff in it	20:42
@preaction	WebGUI.conf.original has over 1000 lines	20:42
+perlDreamer	the macros HASH bug was fixed in 7.8.14	20:42
ckotil	662 /data/WebGUI/etc/globalnoc.iu.edu.conf	20:42
+perlDreamer	that's with documentation	20:42
@preaction	the point being if this was a perl module, i'd be ripping it to shreds right now	20:43
@preaction	and to hell with debian's default editor of "nano"...	20:46
+perlDreamer	The Underground style from the bazaar is very nice	20:48
@preaction	don't thank me, thank the guy who designed it. i just put it into webgui	20:48
+perlDreamer	that's another bummer bout the bazaar, no attribution of authorship	20:50
+perlDreamer	at one point, wasn't there a "more by <username>" link?	20:51
Getty	re	21:00
Getty	btw are you guys actually interested bringing WebGUI to a (Free) Cloud Service?	21:00
+perlDreamer	WebGUI is already being used in a Cloud Service	21:01
+perlDreamer	people run it on EC2	21:01
Getty	ah ok, the cloud service i talk about is making it very easy to manage anything, its really cool kodingen.com	21:02
Getty	its at the startup, but they have "drag & drop" install of stuff (like wordpress, drupal and so on)	21:03
Getty	i just imagined if there would be a drag&drop for WebGUI ;)	21:03
Getty	i already made a link to the developers and they already offered a dedicated server where we can "setup" the required setup and they can analyze it for integration into the cloud	21:03
Getty	even tho its not really a cloud service so far, more an open platform for web	21:04
+perlDreamer	hey, if it lets people use WebGUI, that's great	21:07
Getty	they wouldnt block it, the question is what is required	21:09
Getty	i think a standard user cant get WebGUI running on this env for easy	21:09
Getty	but we could tell them an easy way to make it one of the "one click installer" gadgets	21:10
Getty	dont know, i'm not a webgui dude	21:10
Getty	but they offered testing environments if we need	21:10
Getty	wait must restart my pc.... again.....	21:10
@preaction	WebGUI requires a shell and root access to install	21:10
@preaction	but to run, just needs the prereqs	21:10
Getty	yeah, lets talk about this in 2 minutes ;)	21:11
+perlDreamer	preaction, we need to do something about webguiupdate.pl	21:19
+perlDreamer	it lets people nuke their sites by skipping the upgrade steps	21:19
Getty	re	21:19
Getty	so.. where is this icon now?	21:32
Getty	i see the assets before me, so admin console => assets	21:32
+perlDreamer	Getty, what is it you're trying to do?	21:33
+perlDreamer	Apply the style template to the site?	21:33
Getty	about using the page layout	21:33
Getty	yes	21:33
Getty	so i need to find that "class icon"	21:33
+perlDreamer	okay, the class icon is right on the main page	21:33
+perlDreamer	on the left	21:33
+perlDreamer	next to the big red X icon	21:34
+perlDreamer	you don't need to go into the Admin Console to do this, although you can if you wish	21:34
Getty	i feel stupid, i dont know what you mean with main page	21:34
Getty	AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH	21:35
Getty	NOW i get it!	21:35
Getty	yes yes ok	21:35
Getty	no...	21:35
Getty	i mean	21:35
Getty	i see the icon now	21:35
Getty	but when i click i just get a dropdown	21:35
Getty	what function i must click now?	21:36
+perlDreamer	Edit Branch	21:36
+perlDreamer	which instructions are you following?	21:36
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Getty	Aha!	21:36
Getty	there it is	21:36
Getty	i used the on the wiki about adding theme	21:36
Getty	just need to reopen it now	21:36
Getty	but now i get it	21:36
Getty	its a bit confusing to find it	21:36
Getty	but now i get the concept more	21:37
+perlDreamer	you can access the same set of instructions from the Asset Manager	21:37
+perlDreamer	in the Asset manager, there are two labeled links	21:37
Getty	its on! :) http://www.raudssus.de/	21:37
+perlDreamer	Edit, which allows you to edit the asset	21:37
Getty	yeah i was in that menu before, but didnt knew i was right	21:37
+perlDreamer	and More, which drops down the same menu as the class icon	21:37
Getty	the way bringing people to the "class icon" is probably a bit hard	21:37
+perlDreamer	it's faster to use the class icon	21:37
Getty	yeah but if you are new you think more of the admin interface	21:37
Getty	then really clicking into the page	21:37
Getty	if you want to change the complete layout	21:38
Getty	its not logical to click something on the "content" of the page to change the "complete page"	21:38
Getty	or lets say, that confused me ;) i was on the page searching the icon, but i searched it "at the border of the page"	21:38
+perlDreamer	maybe the wiki needs some images to clarify it	21:39
Getty	or that, yes	21:39
Getty	definitly	21:39
Getty	ok......... now i see there is no blog content right out of the box	21:41
Getty	but i suggest there is some plugin right? :;)	21:41
+perlDreamer	to build a blog, you use the Collaboration System	21:41
Getty	or should i use some other content module which has the same resulting effect like a blog?	21:41
Getty	ok	21:41
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Getty	ok so just for understanding, i just go to the homepage and add the collaboration system?	21:41
+perlDreamer	yes	21:42
+perlDreamer	then, configure it to use the Weblog templates	21:42
+perlDreamer	it's not a beautiful blog, but it works	21:42
Getty	mh	21:42
Getty	i'm a bit confused	21:42
+perlDreamer	what is "mh"?	21:42
Getty	but ok i will first add it and then see	21:42
Getty	mh is an empty word	21:42
Getty	its like "mh" => i think about something, "mh!" => i got an idea, "mh?" => what you say?	21:43
+perlDreamer	ah, like "hm" in english	21:43
Getty	yes	21:43
Getty	we german just do it just other around	21:43
+perlDreamer	we can forgive you for that. We owe you for landjaegerwurst	21:44
Getty	heheheh	21:44
Getty	and beer	21:44
Getty	without our high quality beer you all would be dead already!	21:45
+perlDreamer	I'm more of a fan of the high quality wurst and baked goods, but since beer is made with grain we can call it good.	21:51
Getty	lol	21:51
Getty	i dont drink beer actually	21:51
+perlDreamer	you should, German bier is great!	21:53
+perlDreamer	especially when it's chasing down some bierwurst, kartoffelsalat und brotchen	21:53
Getty	i prefer vodka	21:56
Getty	made much business with vodka	21:56
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I think I'm going to move uiLevel from define to a property, since I want assets to be able to inherit the default uiLevel.	22:03
+perlDreamer	actually, that's another good delimiter between the two.	22:04
+perlDreamer	properties are inheritable, while defines are not	22:04
+perlDreamer	in any case, I'm off for lunch	22:05
Getty	can i get a more full fledge RTE?	22:39
+perlDreamer	Getty, the RTE to use is configurable in the Collaboration System	22:41
Getty	ok	22:51
Getty	so... the intropage of the collaboration system "s***", that "table" with the entries	22:51
Getty	can we make it more blogstyle? or just that he lists the entries?	22:52
Getty	no idea, something to customize	22:52
+perlDreamer	Getty, that would be another template :)	22:53
+perlDreamer	have a look at perlDreamer.com/blog	22:53
Getty	mh ok i dont wanna do anything for now	22:53
Getty	i got my first blog entry	22:53
Getty	cool	22:53
Getty	gimme that!	22:53
Getty	;)	22:53
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+perlDreamer	it's just a default template with my site's style added.	22:58
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra3614f5 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Move uiLevel from a define to a property so it can be inherited. - http://bit.ly/cp1QD2	22:59
Getty	perlDreamer: and which default template? i mean i use the default collaboration system	23:01
Getty	is yours not the same?	23:01
-!- SDuensin [~Scott@mobile-166-137-137-049.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]		23:01
+perlDreamer	nope, it's a different template	23:01
+perlDreamer	try the "weblog" template	23:01
+perlDreamer	whoa!	23:02
+perlDreamer	wgd works with WebGUI8	23:02
+perlDreamer	nice work, Haarg	23:02
+perlDreamer	well, to be specific, wgd ls root/import/collaboration worked fine	23:03
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra3aeae9 / (8 files in 2 dirs): Continue change from define uiLevel to has uiLevel.	23:07
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3b0e893 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Add T::C tests for File and Snippet.	23:08
Getty	oh man i feel a bit fixed	23:16
Getty	having own application framework and doing all stuff self normally, means always "taking back yourself" if you want to use another system	23:16
Getty	actually i just do it to promote perl, i need to use something from perl ;)	23:16
+perlDreamer	we all suffer from that	23:17
Getty	let me guess	23:17
Getty	cause i used this design now	23:17
Getty	having a sidebar	23:17
Getty	would be a more complex act	23:17
Getty	right?	23:17
+perlDreamer	it would be a different style template	23:18
+perlDreamer	it depends on what content you want in the sidebar	23:18
+perlDreamer	it it's a navigation (like used in Underground), it's fairly simple	23:18
+perlDreamer	if it's more complex, like an RSS feed, twitter stream, etc.	23:19
+perlDreamer	then it takes a little bit more work	23:19
Getty	mh	23:19
Getty	i dont know	23:19
Getty	i dont know what i want at all somehow now	23:19
+perlDreamer	if you want a different layout (two column, three column,), that's another template used by the Page Layout	23:19
Getty	being forced to make a webpage makes sick ;) i dont have a target	23:19
+perlDreamer	and no change to the Style at all	23:20
Getty	ah ok	23:20
Getty	so i can make it 2 col now?	23:20
+perlDreamer	sure	23:20
+perlDreamer	Edit the Page Layout	23:20
+perlDreamer	Select the Display tab	23:20
Getty	ok wait	23:20
Getty	i think i dont do it	23:20
Getty	and try to make a footer stuff... or more menu points	23:20
Getty	dont know	23:20
Getty	nah i got my blog that is for first something	23:20
Getty	i still got a problem about your URLs...	23:20
Getty	i got my first "SEO-cry"	23:21
Getty	/ and /root/home are the same	23:21
+perlDreamer	why is some bot crawling though the root node?	23:22
Getty	i mean, there is no redirect	23:22
Getty	one should redirect to the other	23:22
Getty	no matter which direction	23:22
Getty	cause there shouldnt be 2 urls with the same content	23:22
+perlDreamer	remember the default asset that we talked about earlier?	23:22
Getty	yeah	23:22
Getty	there i explicit didnt set an URL	23:23
+perlDreamer	that's what causing that	23:23
Getty	aha?	23:23
+perlDreamer	I think not	23:23
+perlDreamer	there's another function	23:23
+perlDreamer	Not Found Page	23:23
+perlDreamer	the url /root/home does not exist	23:24
+perlDreamer	so WebGUI is redirecting you to the page it was told to in the Settings	23:24
Getty	mh	23:24
Getty	but the headline is linking to it	23:24
+perlDreamer	which headline?	23:24
Getty	http://www.raudssus.de/	23:24
Getty	the headline links to /root/home	23:24
Getty	and /root/home shows the same page again	23:25
+perlDreamer	try this...	23:25
+perlDreamer	Admin, Turn Admin on...	23:25
+perlDreamer	Admin Console, Settings	23:25
+perlDreamer	wait	23:25
+perlDreamer	Admin, Turn Admin On	23:25
+perlDreamer	Edit the main page	23:25
+perlDreamer	change the URL to just home	23:26
+perlDreamer	now, Admin Console->Settings	23:26
+perlDreamer	Default Asset => home	23:26
+perlDreamer	now /home and / will be the same asset, and no root	23:26
Getty	in which tab is that?	23:26
+perlDreamer	2nd or 3rd?	23:27
+perlDreamer	from the left	23:27
Getty	ah got it	23:27
Getty	Standard Homepage its translated	23:27
Getty	but still the problem	23:29
Getty	i think you dont get really what i mean	23:29
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Getty	i did lots of SEO stuff in my last companies, actually it was so deep that i was puking all day caring about the details	23:29
Getty	one important detail is that one page is not allowed to have 2 URLs, that everything should be unique	23:29
Getty	so right now i got 2 URLs (/ and /home) which gives the right content	23:30
Getty	that "lowers" the value for google a little bit	23:30
+perlDreamer	so if a page works as /index.html and /, that's bad too?	23:30
Getty	yes	23:30
Getty	correct	23:30
Getty	you have to optimize that away	23:30
Getty	(if you want to be "TOP" SEO)	23:30
+perlDreamer	that's ridiculous	23:30
Getty	dont tell me ;)	23:30
Getty	i just tell what i was told	23:30
Getty	for example	23:30
Getty	you know ?page=1 ?	23:30
+perlDreamer	yes	23:30
Getty	?page=2 ?page=3 ?page=4	23:31
Getty	there is alos the same	23:31
Getty	you got: /list and /list?page=1 which shows the same	23:31
Getty	so you have to code your list to NOT give a link to ?page=1	23:31
Getty	instead always to /list	23:31
Getty	elsewhere => 2 urls same content	23:31
Getty	an SEO optimizer will critic that	23:31
Getty	so best would be if the internal stuff is really redirecting	23:31
Getty	for example the "not found" asset of course generates TONS of that	23:32
Getty	so you MUST redirect to the not found page actually	23:32
Getty	so technical i think its easy for WebGUI to optimize that in	23:32
Getty	it just needs to redirect to the asset	23:32
Getty	instead of loading it internal	23:32
+perlDreamer	I think you'd be surprised...	23:32
+perlDreamer	but if you really want that, the Requests for Enhancement board is over at webgui.org/rfe	23:33
Getty	i actually dont care much, if i dont make a webgui "top seo" site so far, but i think i mention it for you guys cause its some stuff that an SEO company would tell the company that uses WebGUI and this makes bad reputation again :-/	23:34
Getty	the people give companies 5000 EUR < or more to make a report that just is full of that shit	23:34
Getty	and the so called "double content" mistake is always "on top"	23:34
Getty	i will add it to the RFE so that its "listed	23:35
Getty	"	23:35
Getty	but i already see the 32746243278 comments who says "that is bullshit"	23:35
Getty	if i wouldnt have been in that mess, i would comment the same ;)	23:35
+perlDreamer	they won't do that	23:35
Getty	hehe ok	23:35
+perlDreamer	we have several people who sell WebGUI for SEO	23:35
+perlDreamer	they'll probably vote for it	23:36
Getty	wow a totally open registration? no approval link? no check? :)	23:37
+perlDreamer	nope, we trust you	23:38
Getty	http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11462	23:43
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r87c00d4 / (8 files in 3 dirs): appending to an attribute must quote the + -	23:43
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbc71165 / (6 files): Add T::C tests for Redirect, RichEdit,Shortcut,Sku, Template and Wobject. - http://bit.ly/9apyrS	23:44
Getty	is it allowed to make negative comments about the webpage layout of webgui.org? ;)	23:49
+perlDreamer	sure, as long as they're accompanied with patches :D	23:51
Getty	hehehe	23:51
Getty	i could give you a really really cool hint...	23:51
Getty	there is a tool out there	23:51
Getty	which... lets say....	23:51
Getty	"kicks ass" in making layouts	23:52
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rffb7945 / (5 files in 3 dirs): Remove leftover definition sub stubs. - http://bit.ly/d1tKmJ	23:52
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb60149d / (3 files in 2 dirs): Tests for Image, ZipArchive - http://bit.ly/bFPWyg	23:52
Getty	of course its not the tool for very flexible design and the special ones, but it gives out minimum layouts which are a bit nicer then this one you got ;)	23:52
Getty	its called Artisteer, you probably heard of	23:52
+perlDreamer	I hadn't heard of it, but I'm very perl centric	23:53
Getty	i integrated it somehow in my framework, so we can make artisteer templates, just copy the css/images and then define the "layout metastuff" in some config	23:53
Getty	its just a tool, you use it gets html and done, actually its even not free or opensource	23:53
Getty	but its just to good	23:53
Getty	but just a fast suggestion, actually i thought that if you support some much web, someone would have sponsored a better layout :)	23:55
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdb60905 / (t/run_asset.t t/tests/Test/Asset/File/GalleryFile.pm): Add a test for GalleryFile - http://bit.ly/aJkUB2	23:59
--- Day changed Wed Mar 10 2010
* perlDreamer will be back in a bit		00:01
-!- perlDreamer [~colink@pool-98-108-135-77.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]		00:01
@preaction	Bad Idea of the day: We should lock certain template namespaces to only allow Template Toolkit templates, paving the way for WebGUI to do TT only	00:04
Getty	dont do that	00:06
Getty	just a big small whatever warning, dont force yourself to TT	00:07
@preaction	why not?	00:08
@preaction	H::T is a horrible template engine, H::T::E even moreso	00:08
Getty	i just say that TT is not the end of the line	00:08
Getty	actually at the CeBIT we had the TT theme	00:09
@preaction	TT allows developers to give objects directly to template, forgoing the necessity for translation	00:09
Getty	and i found 2 other perl dudes who also see the problem that TT is mostly a template language for developers not for the designers	00:09
@preaction	i will agree there	00:09
Getty	oh in other languages that is normal for template engines, so actually its just that one step TT does right which others does right all the time	00:09
Getty	so you cant take this argument and say TT is the most awesome, there will be another one	00:10
@preaction	well, the other "standard" perl template engine is H::T, which is complete crap	00:10
Getty	right now i took one of those dudes and we want to make Template::Toolkit::Smarty, to make TT be parseable like Smarty	00:10
Getty	(to bring over PHP coder and also gain advantage of the knowledge that many template developer already invested in the smarty concept)	00:10
Getty	could be that this must be splitted up totally	00:10
Getty	i agree that anything beside TT in the perl world is crap	00:11
Getty	but i tell you that TT will not stay alone longtime	00:11
Getty	it will not attract people, as i said, its made from developers for developers	00:11
Getty	probably the only point the "stupid php coders" can do better, just cause they arent real developers	00:11
@preaction	looking at smarty's syntax, i'm not a fan. it doesn't seem much better than TT's syntax	00:12
Getty	there are slightly differences which just make it more easy for many people in that sector	00:12
Getty	checkout "Dwoo"	00:12
Getty	which is a next-step of smarty	00:13
@preaction	{section ... loop=$theloopvar} <- really?	00:13
Getty	LOL!	00:13
Getty	section is deprecated	00:13
Getty	its just historical there	00:13
Getty	still they are stupid php coders ;)	00:13
Getty	its not about the functions	00:13
@preaction	uh... so then why is it in the "Crash Course"	00:13
Getty	its about the syntax	00:13
Getty	cause they are lazy coders, the crash course was made very ver early and noone made a new one i guess	00:14
Getty	actually i dont have read the crash course at all	00:14
Getty	and i also dont care, smarty developers are very closed	00:14
Getty	the gag is, i can introduce smarty to a non-developer faster then TT (i actually had the chance to test this several times)	00:14
Getty	one big problem is the missing $	00:14
Getty	$var is something non-developers understand more then just put in var, especially if they do the same for a command, it just confuses them	00:15
Getty	of course its "cool"	00:15
Getty	but just for a developer who anyway switch just the "internal brain parser" for templates	00:15
@preaction	okay, now i'm looking at Dwoo and it looks like TT with different characters	00:15
@preaction	sigils would be nice in TT, yes	00:15
Getty	yeah thats why we think it gets easy to make a TT with Smarty/Dwoo syntax	00:15
Getty	we just need that $	00:16
Getty	that is what the other dude is working on	00:16
Getty	i personal HATE TT i must say	00:16
Getty	i worked with smarty now several years, and TT just S*** for me...	00:16
Getty	i see the power, i dont say its bad	00:16
@preaction	provided you just add sigils, that'd be perfect	00:16
Getty	its just bad for ME ;)	00:16
Getty	you could help him, or probably help us bringing that in	00:16
@preaction	well, i think a lot of times developers don't think about how their objects will be used in the template	00:16
Getty	actually on PHP the people use objects to massive	00:17
Getty	cause for example	00:17
Getty	there is one big problem with objects usage in template	00:17
@preaction	i can't replace H::T in webgui yet. it's an 8+1 thing, not an 8 thing	00:17
Getty	one very very big	00:17
Getty	template parsing cant have proper error handling	00:17
@preaction	well, obviously one can't have a template cause a side-effect, ever. never direct db access	00:17
Getty	so if your object triggers a DB call and the DB call fails it would be a very "fucked up" moment inside the template	00:17
@preaction	uh... why not? you shouldn't be able to do anything to CAUSE an error, that's the thing	00:17
Getty	yeah	00:18
Getty	but lets think in a bigger scale	00:18
Getty	you got 100 developers	00:18
@preaction	you should never be able to write to the DB, and reading should be through existing methods	00:18
Getty	and now you change a common function of an object	00:18
Getty	to use the DB	00:18
Getty	another coder might not know	00:18
Getty	and use that function of the object in template	00:18
@preaction	there's the wrong thing right there. you should probably be using an ORM	00:18
Getty	wait wait	00:18
Getty	forget ORM forget anything	00:18
Getty	replace DB with "otherServiceThatCouldCauseError"	00:19
Getty	its a general thing	00:19
Getty	the Object can do whatever the object wants todo	00:19
Getty	if you hang it into the template	00:19
Getty	you can never CONTROL that	00:19
@preaction	i understand, i do. laziness causes deferred errors	00:19
Getty	cause its job of the object	00:19
Getty	what would be cool	00:19
Getty	and perfect	00:19
Getty	is 2 objects	00:19
Getty	like you got one and if the object goes to template it gets converted	00:19
Getty	OR	00:19
Getty	you make a "switch" inside the object concept	00:19
Getty	i thought about both once	00:19
Getty	but both are a bit "crazy"	00:19
Getty	but it would be important to define a "rule" for that	00:20
Getty	so that this never can happen	00:20
Getty	"out of concept"	00:20
Getty	(beside someone breaks the concept)	00:20
Getty	if you just say "use objects in template" you cant prevent that problem	00:20
Getty	there must be a bit more of a ruleset for that	00:20
Getty	so that both sides (people who uses object just before the template and the people who uses it in template) never run into that error	00:20
@preaction	i've thought the same, most likely i'll have the Model objects have a method to tell the template which bits are available, which are not, etc...	00:20
Getty	one way	00:20
Getty	which is most easy	00:21
Getty	would be ->TemplateFunction()	00:21
Getty	so if you call: $obj->function() in template	00:21
Getty	it calls: $obj->template_function()	00:21
Getty	if its not there it calls ->function()	00:21
Getty	so you can "block" functions out	00:21
Getty	which would cause active action	00:21
Getty	or other around	00:21
Getty	you can deny that he search for ->function()	00:21
Getty	and you need to define what is exported	00:21
Getty	that was my smallest solution	00:21
Getty	so be very very careful about what you "propagate"	00:23
Getty	if you once start to push massivly on the object into template train	00:23
Getty	you cant stop it	00:24
Getty	it is like giving people PHP	00:24
Getty	more and more code goes into the template (or is called at template level)	00:24
@preaction	except for, as mentioned, templates will never be able to modify anything. a template on one page request cannot affect any other page request	00:24
@preaction	that's the rule	00:24
Getty	if you "just have object" inside the template	00:25
Getty	you cant prevent it	00:25
@preaction	getters, not setters	00:25
Getty	you cant prevent it	00:25
Getty	(sadly)	00:25
@preaction	it's a translated object, but translated automatically	00:25
Getty	yeah but then you can just call ->toArray() on all objects	00:25
Getty	that is what i do inside my framework, i dont assign objects (only "Text" objects)	00:25
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@preaction	so yes, there is a translation to set up, a TT context or what-have-you, but the idea is that to the Developer, it's done automatically, and to the Designer, it just works	00:26
Getty	yes of course, but then its not more or less then arrays in the template	00:26
Getty	even tho, if you "think perl" its just a blessed hash ;) and this is an object so.. yes ok	00:27
Getty	if i think other around its more logical	00:27
Getty	it just needs a special way of objects	00:27
Getty	like XX::XX goes to XX::XX::Template	00:27
Getty	so that you can add custom function to the template object	00:27
Getty	if you dont have ::Template, then its just a hash	00:27
Getty	this would be something very acceptable in my eyes, and very powerful	00:28
Getty	if that was something you thought about	00:28
-!- perlDreamer [~colink@pool-98-108-135-77.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui		00:39
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4beab18 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm : Fix uiLevel in Folder. -	00:58
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rffe4e7f / (13 files in 4 dirs): fix uiLevel tests, and loading multiple sessions. -	00:58
@preaction	perlDreamer: you were gone: any opinion on making certain template namespaces TT-only	01:12
+perlDreamer	why?	01:12
+perlDreamer	in 8, or 7?	01:12
@preaction	so we can do things in the templates that only TT allows	01:12
@preaction	in 8, for the Admin Console template	01:12
+perlDreamer	I had thought that the TT conversion was dropped for 8?	01:13
@preaction	it is	01:13
@preaction	that's why i want this, so I can make a new template that is TT only and use TT features	01:13
@preaction	and we can slowly move our templates to TT-only, and then finally remove the other engines	01:14
+perlDreamer	that sounds more painful than doing it before the release	01:14
@preaction	there are two "floating features" for the 8 cycle. TT and Auth	01:14
+perlDreamer	brb	01:15
@preaction	what about it sounds painful? i need dissenting opinions	01:15
@preaction	it is a little bit of work up-front, but it enables us to start making our new apps and templates TT-based, and then shove everything old into TT-land	01:16
+perlDreamer	so the plan would be to have new namespaces, that only TT templates could be placed into	01:18
@preaction	correct	01:18
+perlDreamer	and on every site, we're going to enable the TT plugin via templateParsers	01:19
@preaction	correct, TT would now be absolutely required to run WebGUI	01:19
@preaction	considering 8 as a transition period	01:20
@preaction	which is really what it is, and always has been	01:20
+perlDreamer	if I was a user, and you told me I had to learn two template systems for 2 years, I'd be frustrated	01:20
@preaction	just like 6 was, only hopefully not as chaotic	01:20
@preaction	yeah, that would be a down side	01:20
* perlDreamer opines for all or none		01:21
@preaction	so is that the problem? our default templates are H::T and the cargo-culting is keeping us locked in?	01:22
+perlDreamer	no, doing a two-year transition on something difficult like a templating language	01:22
@preaction	so do it quickly like pulling off a band-aid	01:23
+perlDreamer	right, all, or none	01:23
+perlDreamer	there's a fairly good H::T translator out on the net, already	01:25
+perlDreamer	the missing piece is the variable translation	01:25
+perlDreamer	but I'm confident that since we know the namespace, and the user of the namespace that it can all be fixed, automatically	01:26
@frodwith	i thought the difficulty is that we have a huge legacy codebase of H::T templates that we don't want to convert	01:26
+perlDreamer	any custom template, yes	01:27
@preaction	we Do want, we don't have time for right now	01:27
+perlDreamer	right	01:27
@preaction	well, yes, custom templates as well	01:27
+perlDreamer	the core templates are easy	01:27
@frodwith	oh I see the difficulty	01:27
@frodwith	we'd have to at the very least provide an automated converter to people	01:28
@preaction	it's either this, or during 8.1, 8.2, 8.5 we make all the default templates into TT templates and then say "yeah, fix your templates cuz 9 will make TT only"	01:28
+perlDreamer	if we do that, I think we'll lose users by the droves	01:28
@preaction	i want to give them TT template examples or some INCENTIVE to migrate before we drop the hammer	01:28
+perlDreamer	the TT conversion alone is going to be difficult, but forcing them to use both at the same time?	01:28
+perlDreamer	it'll drive them nutso	01:28
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4fa1e00 / (10 files in 2 dirs): Add Wobject tests. -	01:30
@preaction	well, for example we had the Shop migration in 7	01:31
@preaction	and we're planning on the same for Auth in 8	01:31
+perlDreamer	but that's all in 1 shot	01:32
+perlDreamer	not staged in pieces	01:32
+perlDreamer	we didn't part of Shop	01:32
+perlDreamer	then another part	01:32
+perlDreamer	and then a 3rd part	01:32
+perlDreamer	imo, people think about the templates as 1 chunk, not broken out by namespace	01:32
@preaction	right, but there are 100x more custom templates than there are custom shop or auth modules	01:32
+perlDreamer	sure	01:32
+perlDreamer	undoubtedly	01:33
+perlDreamer	maybe it could be done in 2 chunks	01:34
+perlDreamer	admin console templates	01:34
+perlDreamer	and asset templates	01:34
+perlDreamer	but I don't think it can be done namespace by namespace	01:34
@preaction	right, but you're also saying that we shouldn't make the default set TT and still allow H::T	01:34
@preaction	in one shot	01:34
@preaction	this isn't something we got to figure out now, i just wanted to get to use some of the TT features. nobody changes the AC template, mainly because it's easy to break	01:35
@frodwith	it doesn't really matter what the default is, does it?	01:35
+perlDreamer	If I came across that way, I apologize. What I meant to object to was a long transition period between the 2. I think it should be one point release.	01:35
@frodwith	point is as long as we support H::T, our TT implentation must be crippled	01:35
@preaction	but you still feel that it could be an 8.x release	01:36
@preaction	yes, i'd be bypassing the WG::A::T::TemplateToolkit	01:36
+perlDreamer	sure, like 8.0.5, or 8.0.6, but not more than one point	01:36
+perlDreamer	the TT implementation will always be crippled, until we decide which path we're going to take	01:36
@preaction	well, it'd probably have to be a minor release, not a bugfix point	01:37
+perlDreamer	do we put logic in the template, or not?	01:37
@preaction	and Auth is still on the table for a minor release of its own	01:37
@preaction	"logic" is a misnomer, there's always logic in the template	01:37
@preaction	it's the policy of "no side effects"	01:37
@preaction	but even that... we allow Macros to have side effects :p	01:37
@frodwith	well, TT templates can happily munge data	01:37
@frodwith	H::T can't do much in that area.	01:38
@frodwith	so you have to mangle your template variables to make it happy	01:38
@preaction	and munging is fine, good even. anything in the template should not affect any other page request ever	01:38
@frodwith	if we threw out H::T support, we could stop mangling our template vars.	01:38
+perlDreamer	how are the template variables "mangled"?	01:40
@preaction	instead of having to make all the year, month, day, monthDay, dayOfWeek, etc... we could just give a Date object (or whatevz)	01:42
@preaction	we also have to translate from arrays into arrays of hashrefs, because that's all H::T can do	01:42
@frodwith	[ { key => 'foo', val => 'bar'}, { key => 'baz', val => 'qux' } ] instead of { 'foo' => 'bar', 'baz', 'qux' }	01:42
@frodwith	comes to mind	01:42
@preaction	it can't do hashes, or just normal arrays	01:42
@preaction	there's also more laziness we can do, instead of generating everything even if nobody ever uses it	01:43
@frodwith	not to mention the horrific things you have to do in H::T in that situation if you want to access something in there by its key	01:43
+perlDreamer	how many users do we have doing that?	01:43
@preaction	ah yes, the "field.noloop.<fieldname>"	01:43
@preaction	the DataForm does it everywhere	01:43
@preaction	Thingy also comes to mind	01:44
@frodwith	before I talked hDP into switching to TT for all their stuff, it was all over their stuff	01:44
@preaction	ooh, didn't know about that one	01:44
@frodwith	I mean, it's not like it takes too much time to compute that stuff, but it makes the code more complicated than it has to be.	01:45
+perlDreamer	and moves that code into the templates	01:46
+perlDreamer	where users have to deal with it	01:46
@frodwith	in what way?	01:46
+perlDreamer	I don't think that's a good solution	01:46
@preaction	no, the code is still in the module, it just only gets evaluated when the template wants it	01:46
@preaction	but in any case: I will not be adding a namespace-locking to allow me to get around our current horrible template practices	01:47
@frodwith	the only reason we create the noloop crap and the arrays of hashes stuff is to get around H::T being unable to represent them.	01:47
@frodwith	you wouldn't have to include the logic in the templates, you'd just use the hashes directly	01:47
@frodwith	(or the arrays, or what-have-you)	01:48
+perlDreamer	if that's the extent of it, just variable access, that doesn't sound that bad	01:48
@preaction	http://gist.github.com/327301 <- here's an example based on WebGUIx::Form and editing assets	01:48
@frodwith	well, TT buys us some other stuff (being able to pass in coderefs or locked down blessed objects, which is very handy)	01:49
@preaction	forms <- all the forms. forms.edit_asset <- the asset edit form	01:49
@frodwith	none of which we can use while we support H::T because of lowest-common-denominator.	01:49
@frodwith	here's a stupid idea: we could provide a set of backcompat variables for the core classes that we'd like to change, as mixins or roles or something, and tell everyone to change them because those are going to go out of date in X point releases	01:51
@frodwith	and then eventually just drop them	01:51
@frodwith	or stop distributing them anyways	01:52
+perlDreamer	if time is important, I don't think we should spend it refactoring the code into addons that we're just going to drop.	01:52
+perlDreamer	we should spend that time doing translation	01:52
@preaction	yeah, if we're really gonna shake up the core of WebGUI in 8+1, we may not even have a translation path at all	01:53
@frodwith	i guess no one is forced to upgrade until they can fix their templates	01:53
+perlDreamer	we've always helped people with that in the past	01:54
+perlDreamer	would you want to hand edit 100's of templates?	01:55
+perlDreamer	or even dozens?	01:55
@frodwith	no, ugh.	01:55
@preaction	and we'll help them in the future, but depending on how drastic the internal changes it may be difficult	01:55
@frodwith	well. what about this: mechanically translate everything to TT without changing any of the variables in one release	01:56
+perlDreamer	that sounds good	01:56
@frodwith	and drop support for H::T. that gets us all using TT at least.	01:56
+perlDreamer	we can always make individual changes in other releases	01:56
@frodwith	yes.	01:56
+perlDreamer	and do it one at a time. DataForm, Thingy, Profile, etc	01:56
+perlDreamer	just one at a time, and all in the same system	01:56
@frodwith	nod	01:56
+perlDreamer	but that's back to what preaction said that we don't have the time to do	01:57
@frodwith	mechanical translation from H::T to TT is automatable	01:57
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfe5085f / (3 files in 2 dirs): Tests for Gallery and HttpProxy - http://bit.ly/9Gsf8s	01:58
@frodwith	and we could provide a service for people to do their custom templates with, as well.	01:58
+perlDreamer	when you throw in the variable translation (taking out the dots) it becomes more difficult	01:58
@preaction	well, we can have 8.1 do the TT conversion, 8.2 do CS, Thingy, DataForm, 8.3 do Layout, Article, etc..., 8.4 do ..., 8.5 ... etc...	01:58
@frodwith	I have a script that managed it for all of HDP's templates that works remarkably well	01:58
@frodwith	with just regexes	01:58
+perlDreamer	then it sounds like we're done :)	01:58
@frodwith	I'm sure there's cases where it breaks, but generally speaking	01:59
+perlDreamer	wait a sec	01:59
@preaction	but that still leaves me at using H::T for the new AC templates	01:59
+perlDreamer	we've only been talking about two of the axes	01:59
+perlDreamer	we also need to handle H::T::Expr	01:59
@frodwith	none of the core templates rely on that little bastard, do they?	01:59
+perlDreamer	no, but it's a core plugin that we've encouraged people to use in the past	02:00
@preaction	no, the AC template is one of those "Hyre Be Dragyns" one	02:00
@preaction	ohh, hte	02:00
@frodwith	ah, so lots of people use it, meaning we'd want to provide a mechanical translation for that as well	02:00
+perlDreamer	that was the original goal, complete mechanical translation of H::T{,::E} to T::T with variable name changes	02:00
@frodwith	that doesn't sound too technically difficult, you could get it perfect if you wrote a real parser	02:01
@frodwith	variable renaming is just dots to underscores, right?	02:01
+perlDreamer	preaction: I think you could design a new AC template using TT, but it would have to use the existing variable set, or be prepared to upgrade custom templates (SwiftySite, etc.)	02:01
+perlDreamer	frodwith, I think so	02:02
+perlDreamer	i was going to use the list of template variables in the Help/ to figure out what needed to be translated, for efficiency	02:02
@preaction	the new AC template is not compatible with the old, at all	02:02
@frodwith	that's where you were going with namespace locking, eh preaction?	02:02
@preaction	yes	02:02
@frodwith	Can't use H::T for AC templates	02:03
@preaction	exactly	02:03
+perlDreamer	we've done things like that in the past, haven't we?	02:03
* perlDreamer looks in the gotchas		02:03
@frodwith	well, if first release of 8 was TT only, here's a translator for your old templates	02:03
@frodwith	you could do AC temnplates in whatever style you pleased	02:04
+perlDreamer	check out the note in 7.7.	02:04
+perlDreamer	7.7.5	02:04
@frodwith	since new AC isn't backwards compatible with the old one at all	02:04
+perlDreamer	in 7.6.4, we deleted all custom profile templates in favor of the new Account system	02:05
+perlDreamer	in 7.6.3 we reworked the SC, and migrated templates	02:05
+perlDreamer	7.5.0 changed the Event templates and didn't translate	02:06
@frodwith	and there's expectation for some breakage in a new major rev	02:07
@frodwith	even outside of the history	02:07
+perlDreamer	yeah, I think you can nuke the old AC templates	02:07
+perlDreamer	just be sure to update the template variable help	02:07
+perlDreamer	frodwith, re breakage, I submit the WebGUI 6.x series	02:08
* preaction vomits uncontrollably at the mention of 6.x		02:08
* frodwith hasn't been around that long, thank God.		02:08
+perlDreamer	where we lost a large fraction of developers	02:08
+perlDreamer	and I don't know how many customers	02:08
@preaction	neither was I, but i've dealt with the fallout	02:08
+perlDreamer	and the difficulty in upgrading 5.x to 7.x sites	02:09
@frodwith	well there's -some- breakage and there's breaking everything gratuitously	02:09
+perlDreamer	totally	02:09
@preaction	well, we're also stating outright exactly what is going to break and how	02:09
+perlDreamer	maybe all of my thinking isn't as generous as I'd like to believe	02:09
+perlDreamer	just not wanting to have to get stuck doing it myself	02:10
@frodwith	do we have a lot of folks customizing the AC extensively?	02:10
@frodwith	he asked curiously?	02:10
@preaction	no, they shouldn't ever. it's not really possible without breaking things	02:10
@preaction	the new one will be less fickle than that	02:10
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't doubt that AMH does	02:11
@frodwith	who?	02:11
@preaction	but that's because the template will be loaded once, then everything will happen inside of it	02:11
+perlDreamer	AlphaMegaHosting	02:11
+perlDreamer	the SwiftySite folks	02:11
@frodwith	oh	02:11
@preaction	they did the SwitfySite	02:11
@preaction	eah	02:11
* preaction is slow		02:11
+perlDreamer	preaction: why not break out the partner's list and ask?	02:11
@frodwith	yes, probably. but they're also really smart.	02:11
+perlDreamer	muy	02:11
@preaction	no, it's not an "ask" thing. it's happening. no matter how i have to do it the AC is being rebuilt	02:11
@preaction	they've all known since last year	02:12
@preaction	there were the specs released and everything	02:12
@frodwith	oh, preaction. So young, so naive.	02:12
+perlDreamer	true, but at that point they also thought we were doing a full automated translation	02:12
@frodwith	"If I warn them a year ahead of time, they can't possibly complain!"	02:12
@preaction	uh... to what?	02:12
+perlDreamer	H::T{,::E} to T::T	02:12
@preaction	frodwith: not that, but there's no "asking". they were told, i don't ask anymore	02:13
@preaction	ah, well, that... is just unfortunate	02:13
@preaction	complaints can be directed to the nearest brick wall, which will be more responsive than I	02:13
+perlDreamer	maybe we need to give the community at large an update in changes to plans?	02:13
+perlDreamer	to remind and reset expectations?	02:13
@frodwith	that's probably the least customized set of templates, I'd imagine	02:13
@preaction	perhaps a "State of Eight"?	02:13
+perlDreamer	sure	02:14
+perlDreamer	also, isn't it WUC announcement time?	02:14
@frodwith	but then, I haven't worked with most of our users.	02:14
* perlDreamer hits the showers, I'll backlog later		02:14
@preaction	wait, i think one of our customers changed the blue in the AC to the older blue because people didn't like the new, darker blue	02:14
@frodwith	that's not even a template change, is it?	02:15
@frodwith	just css?	02:15
@preaction	right, but the only way to get to it is the template	02:21
@preaction	yay!	02:21
+perlDreamer	just wait til TWG gets their hands on it	02:42
+perlDreamer	they'll fix it	02:43
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8806883 / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.8.13-7.9.0.pl : Fix a synax error in the upgrade file. - http://bit.ly/9s2ArF	02:47
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, I could use some help with uft8 issues in 7.9	03:01
+perlDreamer	going to see if I can duplicate it with the WRE	03:01
+perlDreamer	but on Ubuntu, we added a new test failure this week	03:01
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8e253e5 / t/Content/SiteIndex.t : Remove unused diagnostics. - http://bit.ly/bzWKIF	04:46
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4df0c51 / t/Content/Setup.t : Finish clean-up testing. - http://bit.ly/caXmDg	04:48
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+perlDreamer	I think it's funny that the Apache request object has an assbackwards method	05:08
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+perlDreamer	SynQ_: do you have your new car?	05:22
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elnino	since when was there a separate login template? - is there a way for it just to defaul to the site's template?	06:19
elnino	oh. they really messed this up. I see..	06:22
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+perlDreamer	unless there are any objections from the floor, I'm going to release 7.9.0	07:01
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7b40c8b / (3 files in 2 dirs): fix upgrade script, and SQL scripts. - http://bit.ly/bK82PX	07:08
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ref81e69 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.0 release. - http://bit.ly/9GW8wH	07:08
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reccf6a5 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.1 development. - http://bit.ly/9gKUSq	07:45
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-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.8.14-stable \| 7.9.0-beta \| WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com		08:29
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:23
+bartjol	morning	16:36
+bartjol	SDuensin: do you perhaps know where I could have found that the 7.8.13->14 upgrade wasn't very wise to do, if I want to go beta?	16:40
+bartjol	not that I didn't manage offcourse	16:41
+bartjol	but it takes more troubles	16:41
SDuensin	No idea bud. I think going beta at any time is trouble.	16:41
+bartjol	well, it is only for my test server	16:41
+bartjol	so I know what problems to expect later	16:42
+bartjol	and become less of a problem	16:42
+bartjol	pro-active error making :)	16:42
SDuensin	:-)	16:42
* SDuensin has still been too lazy to even get to 7.8.		16:42
+bartjol	Ah, I wanted that awesome language features	16:43
+bartjol	the guy that made those must be a superhero	16:43
SDuensin	Other than English, I only speak programming languages.	16:43
SDuensin	:-P	16:43
+bartjol	ah, but you can practise to speak webgui in 4 languages, not very convenient in bars...	16:44
SDuensin	hehe	16:45
+bartjol	hey baby, Enter the attribute that should be used for each record in LDAP to uniquely identify a user. This field is used for auto creating user accounts for users already in your LDAP repository when they attempt to log in and for finding users who sign up for the site via the anonymous registration feature if it is enabled. In almost all cases this attribute is 'dn' and should be entered as such.	16:46
+bartjol	nope, not a very catchy opening phrase	16:46
SDuensin	Yea, but if she understands it - keep her!	16:47
ckotil	heh	16:47
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Diggy	hi, all	16:48
SDuensin	Hey Diggy	16:49
Diggy	a few weeks ago, i got on the channel to ask about plans for a new VM version of webgui	16:49
Diggy	i've had problems upgrading my VM version	16:50
* SDuensin remembers		16:50
* bartjol not		16:50
Diggy	some kind soul on the channel suggested upgrading to v. 7.6.35 first	16:51
Diggy	today i'm trying that, and have run into problems	16:51
+bartjol	what kind?	16:51
+bartjol	what version are/were you at before?	16:52
Diggy	get through the upgrade process, but when firing off spectre.pl --daemon, got the following:	16:52
Diggy	"Use of uninitialized value $pidFileName in -e at spectre.pl line 104. No pidfile specified in spectre.conf"	16:53
Diggy	huh?	16:53
SDuensin	Yea. That's actually a known issue.	16:53
Diggy	can i fix?	16:53
SDuensin	You need to find the conf file for it and add that line.	16:53
* SDuensin doesn't remember offhand where it is. Will try and find it!		16:53
+bartjol	/data/WebGUI/etc	16:54
+bartjol	for the conf file	16:54
Diggy	btw, going from v. 7.6.20 to v 7.6.35	16:54
+bartjol	and WebGUI must be able to write where you put the pid file	16:54
+bartjol	the webgui user that is	16:54
SDuensin	Yea. Open /data/WebGUI/etc/spectre.conf and add a line...	16:55
+bartjol	maybe root writes it	16:55
SDuensin	The last line in mine prior to the new one is "ignoreEnvProxy". Put a comma at the end of that line...	16:55
SDuensin	On the next line, put:	16:55
SDuensin	"pidFile" : "/tmp/spectre.pid"	16:55
SDuensin	The last line in the file should just be a closing brace: }	16:56
Diggy	no, WebGUI writes to it	16:56
Diggy	beautiful, that worked!	16:57
Diggy	thanks so much	16:58
* SDuensin cheers!		16:58
+bartjol	we are awesome	16:58
SDuensin	Our pleasure.	16:58
Diggy	now, can i upgrade 7.6.35 to the very latest?	16:58
Diggy	and you a r awesome!	16:58
+bartjol	well there is at least a stop at 7.7.33	16:58
SDuensin	I think so. Might want to snapshot that VM first. :-)	16:58
Diggy	ok. any gotchas?	16:59
+bartjol	probably	16:59
SDuensin	OH! I misread that! 7.6.x to latest, no! What bartjol said.	16:59
Diggy	great ;-(	16:59
+bartjol	look in github at 7.7.33	16:59
Diggy	ok. thanks for the tip on snapshotting the vm. didn't think of that :-0	17:00
+bartjol	http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/blob/webgui-7.7/docs/gotcha.txt	17:00
Diggy	will do. this is a giant step for me-kind, tho	17:00
SDuensin	hehe	17:01
SDuensin	WebGUI is worth the effort.	17:01
Diggy	i agree! that's why i've been so bummed at my inability to upgrade	17:01
+bartjol	oh, i see that in that gotcha it only goes to 7.6.11	17:01
+bartjol	so there'll be an overlap	17:01
Diggy	i do like the rapid development afforded by the vm	17:02
Diggy	i don't understand bartjol's point	17:02
+bartjol	that there will be some steps that you've already taken	17:03
+bartjol	in that gotcha	17:03
Diggy	so, those are behind me then?	17:03
+bartjol	yeah, but only partially	17:03
+bartjol	so get the 7.6.35 and 7.7.33 gotchas next to each other and compare	17:04
* ckotil takes note.		17:04
ckotil	im at 7.6.35	17:04
ckotil	been stuck for a while	17:04
Diggy	looking at gotchas for 7.7, i see that a fair number of perl mods have changed/are required	17:06
Diggy	scary, ew scary :-)	17:07
+bartjol	we've heard some problems about testEnvironment not installing modules probably	17:07
+bartjol	so manual might be better	17:07
SDuensin	Really, bartjol ?	17:08
+bartjol	yeah	17:08
+bartjol	afraid so	17:08
+bartjol	some forum posts I believe	17:08
SDuensin	:-/	17:08
+bartjol	not sure, maybe that is for specific wre buiilds	17:08
Diggy	erm, does that mean that if i do a manual install 0f 7.7.33, that testEnvironment wiil fetch the proper modules (sorry if that's a dumb*ssed question)	17:09
+bartjol	it should	17:10
Diggy	i might as well give it a rip	17:10
+bartjol	but you have to run it :P	17:10
Diggy	ok	17:10
+bartjol	if it failes, switch to manual	17:10
Diggy	uh, sorry again, i don't understand. i'm prepared to do a manual install of 7.7.33	17:11
+bartjol	no, manual perl module installation	17:11
Diggy	yeah, of course	17:11
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SDuensin	Just try it and see what happens. If it doesn't work, we can help you with cpan.	17:12
Diggy	hopefully, Dag repo has them. CPAN can be a PITA at times	17:12
Diggy	appreciate the offer	17:12
SDuensin	Dag?	17:12
Diggy	yeah. well known repo for CentOS/RHEL packages	17:13
Diggy	aka rpmforge	17:13
Diggy	you could look it up :-)	17:14
+bartjol	oh, the build-essentials package is essential for debian	17:14
SDuensin	Oh. I don't do RPM. :-)	17:14
+bartjol	for the make program	17:14
Diggy	ah. well, the webgui vm appears to be built on CentOS 5	17:14
+bartjol	ah, I don't have any routine with that	17:16
Diggy	a repo RPM is available from the repository. it creates the repo file needed for yum to get to Dag repo	17:17
Diggy	then "yum install pkgname"	17:17
Diggy	or,, grab individual perl modules (if available) manually, and use rpm to install	17:18
Diggy	quite simple, really	17:18
Diggy	ok, so i've got the 7.7.33 tarball	17:19
Diggy	ready to try manual install (cheers and encouragement :-) ?)	17:20
SDuensin	Is that the next stop point?	17:21
* SDuensin doesn't know.		17:21
Diggy	you mean, is 7.7.33 the next stop point? from what bartjol said above, it is	17:22
* bartjol thinks so		17:22
SDuensin	Then rock on! You're very safe with a snapshot. Remember the snapshot? :-)	17:22
+bartjol	if there isn't anything else in the gotcha	17:22
Diggy	snapshotting as we speak	17:25
+bartjol	hey patspam, wre 0.9.4 is being copied	17:26
SDuensin	Oh no! That means more upgrades! :-P	17:27
+patspam	bartjol++	17:28
+bartjol	SDuensin: that is a trial version, only for nice people :P	17:28
SDuensin	Oh, I won't be nice then. :-D	17:28
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@Haarg	patspam, what kind of condition is your plack webgui in? i've been messing with plack a bit recently and was thinking about spending some spare time on that.	17:38
+patspam	hey haarg	17:38
+patspam	I started playing with it again the other day	17:38
@Haarg	i looked around at the code a bit but wasn't sure how close to fully working it was	17:38
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+patspam	the Plack::Request api changed, so the old version was broken	17:38
+patspam	but Plack::Request is stable now	17:38
+patspam	for PlebGUI I localised the changes as much as possible	17:39
+patspam	most of wG still thought it was using Apache2::Request etc..	17:40
+patspam	for wg8 we should rip out a lot more of the guts	17:40
@Haarg	yeah, i gathered there was a lot of compatibility code which we will hopefully do away with	17:40
+patspam	it's going to be mostly straight forward	17:40
+patspam	the only time consuming part I found was trying to find documentation on what the APR methods do, to try to map them to equivalent Plack::Request methods	17:41
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+patspam	I'll push up what I've done recently	17:42
+patspam	the other thing is	17:44
+bartjol	for next time, where is it announced that there will be an upgrade script from stable to the first beta, I can manage to get it done easily, but I do have to read the scripts to see what is already done	17:44
+patspam	plebgui was branched off 7.8.1	17:44
@Haarg	luckily most of the large scale webgui 8 changes have been in assets so merging shouldn't prove too difficult	17:45
Diggy	update - d*mn CPAN barfed! --> "Install of CSS::Minifier::XS failed!"	17:45
Diggy	shall i try to install from CPAN shell with "force"?	17:46
SDuensin	Be nice about it first. :-)	17:46
@Haarg	was that in the CPAN client or through testEnvironment?	17:47
Diggy	yes (sorry for the swearing :-) - sanity thing	17:47
SDuensin	"Tension breaker! Had to be done!"	17:47
Diggy	oh, sorry, testEnvironment	17:47
Diggy	true dat	17:48
@Haarg	frodwith, i should probably file a bug for it but the tests for POE::Component::Server::PSGI seem to fail on windows	17:48
@Haarg	try installing it with the CPAN shell, and if it fails pastebin the results	17:48
Diggy	ok, trying now	17:49
Diggy	eek. first CSS::Minifier::XS u=install barfed because YAML wasn't installed. did that.	17:53
Diggy	then it barfed for some other reason. see pastebin/ieAzYujw	17:54
@Haarg	you have an actual link i can use?	17:57
@Haarg	either that or it didn't post correctly	17:58
Diggy	sorry about that. try freebsd.pastebin.com/rVsKFfA9	18:02
+MrHairgrease	you don't have a c compiler	18:02
Diggy	really	18:03
+MrHairgrease	what distro are you on	18:03
SDuensin	MrHairgrease - It's the WebGUI VM.	18:03
SDuensin	CENTOS	18:03
Diggy	CentOS 5.x. This is the WebGUI-provided VM	18:03
+MrHairgrease	oh	18:03
+MrHairgrease	i see	18:03
+MrHairgrease	you can try 'which cc'	18:04
+MrHairgrease	but that'll prolly tell you you don't have one	18:04
Diggy	i note that gcc is not install. will do that now and see if it helps	18:05
+MrHairgrease	yup	18:05
+MrHairgrease	that would help =)	18:05
Diggy	i'm so exited	18:05
Diggy	ok, a little exited	18:05
+bartjol	i just can't hide it	18:05
+MrHairgrease	you can from me bart	18:05
Diggy	those'd make snappy tune lyrics :-)	18:06
+MrHairgrease	biertje baidewai?	18:06
+bartjol	njou, dasj lekkah	18:06
+MrHairgrease	oki hang on	18:06
Diggy	just out of curiosity, what language is that?	18:07
+bartjol	very terrible dutch	18:07
Diggy	i knew that ... no	18:08
+MrHairgrease	terrible indeed...	18:08
+MrHairgrease	but then again it's passed 5 so who can blame us	18:08
Diggy	i wouldn't know terrible dutch from good dutch, so i'm impressed :-)	18:09
+bartjol	yeah, we speak it fluently	18:09
+MrHairgrease	Most Dutch people don't know the difference either	18:09
Diggy	ok, gcc is installed. should i try installing CSS::Minifier::XS via CPAN shell, or try testEnvironment again	18:10
+MrHairgrease	hey perlDreamer: remember those Moose attribute problems I had?	18:10
+perlDreamer	yes	18:11
+MrHairgrease	I made a moosex trait for it	18:11
+perlDreamer	sweet	18:11
+MrHairgrease	http://github.com/martink/moosex-slaveattribute/blob/master/lib/MooseX/SlaveAttribute.pm	18:11
+MrHairgrease	Moose is awesome	18:11
Diggy	mint, CSS::Minifier::XS installed. now, shoudl i run testEnvironment again?	18:12
Getty	Moose owns	18:12
Getty	its the best method to bring java dudes to perl ;)	18:13
+MrHairgrease	Diggy yes	18:13
Diggy	and leave the poor moose alone! (i couldn't resist)	18:13
+MrHairgrease	Getty, I don't think Java dudes can handle the dynamic sweetness that is perl =)	18:13
Getty	hehe they can, they can	18:13
Getty	its just that they didnt know about it ;)	18:13
Getty	but there are some that dont	18:14
+MrHairgrease	Diggy, you have mooses enough in Norway	18:14
Diggy	I'm north american. plenty here, too	18:14
+MrHairgrease	what's the pluar of Moose anyway? Meese?	18:14
+MrHairgrease	Oh, my bad	18:15
SDuensin	Moosi	18:15
+MrHairgrease	you're connected to a freenode server in Olso	18:15
Diggy	moosi	18:15
Diggy	the world is flat!	18:15
+MrHairgrease	no	18:16
+MrHairgrease	the world is round...	18:16
+MrHairgrease	...like a pancake	18:16
Diggy	hey, ur helping me, so i won't argue the point :-)	18:16
+MrHairgrease	hehe	18:16
SDuensin	Smart lad.	18:17
Diggy	mama didn't raise any fools	18:18
Diggy	gonna step away for a cig (don't judge me) while CPAN does its thing	18:21
SDuensin	JUDGEMENT COMEITH!	18:21
Diggy	hey, it's the opiate of the masses	18:21
SDuensin	My is coffee.	18:22
+perlDreamer	My wife is in school to be a nurse.	18:23
+perlDreamer	This term she is doing oncology (cancer treatment)	18:23
+perlDreamer	all of her patients are smokers or ex-smokers	18:23
+MrHairgrease	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCZPPGlVS6s	18:23
+MrHairgrease	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWXbVsMkz1U	18:25
Diggy	i said "don't judge me", didn't i? :-)	18:28
+MrHairgrease	I'm not judging anyone	18:28
+bartjol	MrHairgrease has smoke coming from every orifice of his body	18:30
+MrHairgrease	Funny, never noticed that	18:31
+bartjol	well, that invisible smoke yesterday almost killed Roberto and me	18:32
+MrHairgrease	hehe	18:32
+bartjol	roti, yeah right, Colin Powell has pictures of you!	18:32
+MrHairgrease	hmmm, roti...	18:33
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Diggy	update - upgrade seemed to work. but when i try to go into admin mode, i get a "Problem with Request" page	18:36
+MrHairgrease	did you restart modperl?	18:36
+bartjol	a lot of times	18:36
+bartjol	oh, sorry	18:37
Diggy	as in restart apache?	18:37
+bartjol	not me	18:37
+MrHairgrease	yup	18:37
+bartjol	no	18:37
+bartjol	only apache isn't enough, is it?	18:37
+MrHairgrease	/data/wre/sbin/wreservice --restart modperl	18:37
+MrHairgrease	or /data/wre/sbin/wreservice --restart modperl specre	18:38
+MrHairgrease	err	18:38
+MrHairgrease	/data/wre/sbin/wreservice --restart modperl spectre	18:38
Diggy	many thanks, that did it!	18:41
+MrHairgrease	no problem	18:41
Diggy	i'm psyched, oh yeah. i'm psyched, oh yeah (does a liitle dance)	18:41
Diggy	NOW can i upgrade to latest and greatest?	18:42
Diggy	Yes? No? (everyone must have gone out on a cig break ;-) )	18:46
+MrHairgrease	i dunno what version you're at	18:47
+MrHairgrease	so I cannot tell	18:47
Diggy	7.7.33	18:47
+bartjol	what, I actually had some work to do	18:47
+MrHairgrease	I guess you can then upgrade to th e7.8 series	18:47
+bartjol	I try to avoid that, but hey	18:47
+bartjol	yes	18:47
+bartjol	maybe some perl modules	18:48
+MrHairgrease	just look in the gotchas.txt file if there are some extra stoppoints on th eroad	18:48
+bartjol	read the 7.8 gotcha	18:48
+bartjol	maybe 7.8.13	18:48
+perlDreamer	you can upgrade from 7.7.33 to 7.8.14 with no hiccups	18:48
+perlDreamer	just extra module requirements	18:48
+bartjol	ah	18:48
+perlDreamer	we're trying to minimize mid-stream hiccups on the shunt path	18:48
+bartjol	but if you want to go to beta, stop at 7.8.13	18:48
+perlDreamer	yes	18:48
+perlDreamer	but going to 7.9.0 is for heffalumps and woozils	18:49
+bartjol	like me	18:49
Diggy	oh yeah, work. ok, i'll give 7.8.14 a whirl	18:49
+perlDreamer	bartjol is a jagular	18:49
Diggy	and, bartjol, take it easy on yourself :-)	18:50
+bartjol	I will, but I had some moments today that I took pride in myself too much	18:50
+bartjol	gotta keep the balance	18:51
Diggy	been there. then i do something completely idiotic, and it slaps me back to reality	18:51
+perlDreamer	I worked with a guy who said, "All those atta-boys are killed by one aw shit."	18:51
+bartjol	yeah, but for the few seconds it lasts, it is nice	18:51
Diggy	and, as we all know, reality bites	18:52
+bartjol	therefore, I wear steel underwear	18:52
Diggy	yeah, a brief endorphin rush	18:52
Diggy	perlDreamer, that one is going into my book of notable quotes	18:54
+perlDreamer	I miss working with Jim, he was a good guy	18:56
Diggy	update - i'm now running the latest-and-greatest WebGUI!!!	19:02
Diggy	except for a couple of angst-filled moments, it was all pretty painless	19:02
Diggy	that is, thanks to your help	19:03
Diggy	i have 2 more questions:	19:03
+bartjol	yes we wear skirts	19:03
+bartjol	oops	19:03
+bartjol	go ahaid, yhat 1 beer hit a spot	19:04
Diggy	1. as part of the upgrade process, the instructions, i'm to restart apache	19:04
+bartjol	well, mainly modperl	19:04
Diggy	but when i try, i get an error saying that httpd.conf can't be found	19:04
+bartjol	that is a mention in the output of the update script	19:04
+bartjol	ah	19:04
+bartjol	did you set the environment?	19:04
Diggy	oops, so much for RTFM	19:05
+MrHairgrease	are you restarting the system apache?	19:05
+MrHairgrease	beacuse you shgouldn't do that	19:05
Diggy	don't honestly know	19:05
+bartjol	well he seems to try that	19:05
Diggy	anyway, seems benign	19:05
+bartjol	perl wreservice.pl --restart modproxy	19:05
+MrHairgrease	if you use /data/wre/sbin/wreservice you don't have to worry about those things	19:05
+bartjol	that wreservice indeed	19:06
+MrHairgrease	it's better to hjust run it as /data/wre/sbin/wreservice	19:06
Diggy	2. somewhere i saw that i can check the WebGUI version from the admin console	19:06
+MrHairgrease	that way you don't need to set the environment in advance	19:06
Diggy	but i don't see where	19:06
+bartjol	it's in the statistics	19:06
Diggy	and, ok to answers for #1	19:06
Diggy	(sheepishly) i haven't really set up the site yet. is "statistics" in the admin console?	19:07
SDuensin	yup	19:08
Diggy	it's probably staring me in the face	19:08
SDuensin	Little picture of a bar graph.	19:08
+bartjol	it's somewhere at words that start with an "S"	19:08
Diggy	uh, oh, i don't see that	19:09
+MrHairgrease	are you admin?	19:09
Diggy	yup	19:09
+bartjol	you're not at the new content, are you?	19:09
Diggy	see, my installation luck was too good to be true :-)	19:10
Diggy	yes, new content	19:10
+bartjol	that is not good	19:10
+bartjol	sorry	19:10
Diggy	ah, NOW i see it. arrgh	19:10
SDuensin	:-)	19:10
+bartjol	1 click away	19:11
CIA-58	WebGUI: translation * r12450 /translations/German/German/ (4 files): Updating German on translation server	19:11
+bartjol	perlDreamer: have you recomitted dutch to?	19:11
Diggy	hmm, odd. says WebGUI Build Version 7.7.33. Latest version available 7.8.14	19:11
+bartjol	too?	19:11
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Diggy	i just installed 7.8.14 (didn't i?)	19:12
+perlDreamer	bartjol, I just did German as a test	19:12
+MrHairgrease	ok, have fun with your new wg install, I have to go to the bar	19:12
+bartjol	ok, want another test? I won't touch it then	19:12
+perlDreamer	Diggy, you can check the WebGUI version from any page	19:12
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+perlDreamer	I'll commit yer stuff, bartjol	19:12
+perlDreamer	go chase after MrHairgrease	19:12
Diggy	if i were there, i'd buy you a tall frosty one	19:12
+bartjol	eeeh, beer	19:12
+perlDreamer	there you go	19:13
* SDuensin is closer, Diggy. :-P		19:13
+bartjol	duck, you suckers, eeeh, I mean: so long dear people	19:13
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Diggy	what a nice person	19:14
+perlDreamer	bartjol is good people	19:14
Diggy	perlDreamer, any idea why i'm not seeing 7.8.14 as installed?	19:15
SDuensin	I think I need cheeseburgers.	19:15
SDuensin	What do you see?	19:15
+perlDreamer	SDuensin: u can haz cheezbrgrz	19:15
Diggy	7.7.13 is the Build Version reported	19:15
SDuensin	Uh oh.	19:15
Diggy	i could stand a burger, too	19:16
+perlDreamer	Diggy, what's the version in /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI.pm ?	19:16
+perlDreamer	right near the top of the file, first 10-15 lines or so	19:16
Diggy	and what do you mean, "uh, oh". not a confidence builder	19:16
SDuensin	:-)	19:16
+perlDreamer	SDuensin: u can haz cheezbrgr	19:16
SDuensin	perlDreamer: Yea, but I gotta go get cheezbrgr.	19:17
+perlDreamer	but only if you stop scaring the newbies	19:17
Diggy	yeash, stop scaring the newbies! WebGUI.pm says "our $VERSION = '7.8.14'"	19:18
+perlDreamer	okay, Diggy, here's what you need to do	19:20
+perlDreamer	Log into the site as Admin, Turn On Admin, Admin Console, Cache, clear cache	19:20
+perlDreamer	clear the cache in your browser	19:20
+perlDreamer	restart modperl again	19:20
+perlDreamer	turn around three times while chanting "WebGUI ROCKS!!" while holding a small purple octopus over your head	19:21
Diggy	used an armadillo for the dance, instead. it worked!	19:23
SDuensin	I've done that. It works.	19:23
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Diggy	if i had the octopus, i'd have eaten it	19:24
* SDuensin bought one to watch over his server.		19:25
Diggy	first of all, to be completely semi-serious, thank you all so much for your help and your patience	19:25
Diggy	not only do i have a working latest-and-greatest, but i've had fun getting there	19:25
+perlDreamer	awesome :)	19:26
* SDuensin cheers!		19:26
CIA-58	WebGUI: translation * r12451 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset_SQLReport.pm Form_Username.pm Form.pm): Updating Dutch on translation server	19:26
SDuensin	See? You should hang out. We're fun.	19:26
Diggy	i'd like to drop in every once-in-a-while to do just that	19:26
+perlDreamer	Diggy, here's a little more advice	19:26
+perlDreamer	browse the wiki	19:26
Diggy	?	19:26
Diggy	ok	19:26
+perlDreamer	download the WebGUI starter guide from plainblack.com and read it cover to cover	19:27
SDuensin	Yea. What he said.	19:27
+perlDreamer	report bugs when you find them, and answer questions to your bugs promptly	19:27
Diggy	reading! oh, no.	19:27
+perlDreamer	search the forum for questions/answers	19:27
SDuensin	Hehe	19:27
SDuensin	It has pictures!	19:27
Diggy	whew	19:27
+perlDreamer	if you do these things, the WebGUI support community will smile and bless you	19:27
Diggy	i can use all the help i can get!	19:27
Diggy	i'll do as advised	19:28
Diggy	now that i have a brand spankin' new install, i'll go at it in earnest	19:28
Diggy	... i don't think earnest will mind	19:28
SDuensin	SNAPSHOT IT!	19:29
SDuensin	:-)	19:29
Diggy	will do	19:29
* SDuensin loves VMs.		19:29
+perlDreamer	run your backups daily	19:29
Diggy	so does Diggy	19:29
Diggy	wait a minute here, there's real work involved here :-)	19:30
+perlDreamer	the WRE is setup to run backups for you	19:30
+perlDreamer	just setup the correct cron job	19:30
Diggy	good to know	19:30
Diggy	i can do that	19:31
+perlDreamer	I think the list of cron jobs is in the wiki	19:32
Diggy	the wiki seems like a must	19:32
Diggy	i'm just kinda noodlin' around the admin console now. how kewl	19:32
Trex	Hi folks. I have some simple questions about using preload.custom -- questions that appear not to be anwered in the wiki.	19:33
Diggy	well, back to work	19:33
SDuensin	Take your time. Don't get frustrated.	19:33
Diggy	as i said earlier, reality bites	19:33
SDuensin	Frustration leads you to do dumb things. Like when I installed Drupal and Joomla.	19:33
SDuensin	OK, I'm going for food at last. Back soon!	19:34
Diggy	SDuensin, i learned a long time ago that if u want to success in IT, u have to be patient	19:34
Diggy	anyway, thanks to all again	19:34
Trex	For example, I want to add a couple template variables to Calendar.pm, specifically to the month view...	19:34
Diggy	ttfn	19:34
-!- Diggy [~dyioulos@65.105.102.162.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]		19:35
Trex	To do this with preload.custom, do you have to copy the entire Calendar.pm file over, or just the subroutines that you wish to modify (like viewMonth)?	19:35
Trex	In other words, does preload.custom replace everything within the original Calendar.pm file if it sees it in the custom directory, or does it give you more fine control over specific subroutines?	19:37
+perlDreamer	Trex: you'd subclass Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm, and just override the subroutines that you need to	19:37
+perlDreamer	custom.preload just adds directories to @INC	19:38
+perlDreamer	everything else is vanilla perl	19:38
+perlDreamer	what kind of variables do you want to add?	19:38
+perlDreamer	if you just want more date formats, I would use a Macro instead of changing code	19:39
Trex	Thanks, pearlDreamer. I don't suppose you could point me to a simple example that would show the syntax for how you would sublcass something. I can do some damage in Perl, but I'm hardly an expert. :)	19:40
+perlDreamer	it's pretty simple	19:40
Trex	What I would like is a "previousMonthUrl" and "nextMonthUrl" variable. Right now you just get a loop of months and links to them, so it seems a bit complex to try to build a marco that would generate these links from the available template variables.	19:40
+perlDreamer	use base qw/WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Calendar/; #for sub classing	19:41
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1427692 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix direct linking to posts and threads when their pagination is set to 0. Fixes bug #11464. - http://bit.ly/aH0GC5	19:45
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r21e3210 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix direct linking to posts and threads when their pagination is set to 0. Fixes bug #11464. - http://bit.ly/cEWaYy	19:45
Trex	With subclassing, would I then be making an entire alternate variation of the Calendar (a whole new asset) in which my changes would be available, or does this make the changes available within the standard WebGUI Calendar asset?	19:59
+perlDreamer	well, if you subclass, it's a whole new asset	20:01
+perlDreamer	but if you monkey-patch, it would alter the default Calendar	20:01
Trex	Monkey-patching referring going into the API and modifying it yourself?	20:01
* perlDreamer suggests just patching the regular Calendar, and making an RFE to move the code into the core		20:01
+perlDreamer	in monkey patching, you overwrite subroutines in another module	20:02
+perlDreamer	it's kind of like pulling weeds in your neighbors yards	20:02
+perlDreamer	it gets rid of the weeds, but isn't the best thing to be doing	20:02
Trex	I was hoping that preload.custom was a way to create custom mods that would apply to the core, but would be outside the upgrade path.	20:02
+perlDreamer	it is, but only as new assets, not by changing existing ones	20:03
Trex	And yes, I was planning on submitting an RFE, but wanted to test my code first under the preload.custom model -- at least how I thought it worked.	20:03
SDuensin	What about this? http://www.webgui.org/wgtv/the-swiftysite-technique (Or is that "monkey patching"?)	20:04
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure how they built it, SD. I didn't attend that session last year	20:06
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SDuensin	It's interesting. Some Perl-fu I've not seen before. (Which isn't hard to find.)	20:06
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Trex	Thanks for the help, perlDreamer! I must be off again.	20:14
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+patspam	Haarg: I pushed up the Plack code as the "plebgui" branch	20:44
+perlDreamer	patspam: my son Peter says there is good wine tasting on the trains at Mt. Hood	20:46
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure if he's trying to get a ride out of it, or wanting to try some wine (kid is only 10!), or authentically trying to be helpful	20:47
+patspam	either way... totally awesome!	20:47
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@preaction	patspam: does that mean plebgui is ready for prime-time?	22:16
+patspam	well..	22:16
+patspam	I think I hacked it back to functional post-Plack::Request api changes	22:16
+patspam	but the next step would be to rewrite it	22:17
+patspam	ripping out Apache::Request altogether	22:17
+patspam	lib/WebGUI/Session/Plack.pm fakes the parts of Apache::Request API that webgui uses	22:19
@preaction	ahh	22:19
+patspam	really we should rip the guts out of WebGUI.pm, use middleware instead of content handlers, and refactor $session->request to be more naturally PSGI	22:20
@preaction	oh yes, but that would be far outside the scope of 8, and that is my plan for eventually (which, if i have my way, means 9)	22:21
@preaction	though that means we're once again playing catchup	22:21
+patspam	how much is within scope?	22:22
@preaction	ripping out Apache::Request is fine, i don't think that any asset-level custom code should be using $session->request. so any changes to that should be fine	22:23
@preaction	but using plack middleware not as fine, it's another set of changes and stuff we don't have time for	22:24
@preaction	though having a way to use plack middleware would be fine, then we could migrate at our leisure	22:24
@preaction	the main thing is we need to start having preview releases of WG8 in the next 3-4 months	22:25
+patspam	ok, so we keep support for content & url handlers in WebGUI.pm	22:26
@preaction	for now, yes	22:26
+patspam	I started converting the core handlers to middleware for plebgui, it's mostly an easy translation	22:26
+patspam	middleware will be possible as soon as we support PSGI	22:27
@preaction	okay	22:27
@preaction	anything to get rid of apache as soon as possible	22:27
@preaction	well, not apache, but modperl, but whatevz	22:27
+patspam	what's the plan for modproxy?	22:28
+patspam	did you say something about nginx + wgaccess the other day?	22:29
@preaction	nginx, yes	22:29
+patspam	sweet	22:29
@preaction	i'd really really really like to see if we can make WebGUI entirely async, but that might be more of a research project for a GSOC or something	22:29
+patspam	now you're talking!	22:29
@preaction	JT wanted carrier grade, I want to deliver ;)	22:30
+patspam	sweet. I've been playing with tatsumaki quite a bit lately	22:30
@preaction	interesting	22:32
+patspam	I'm bolt bussing to boston tonight (4hrs), I might see about ripping out Apache::Request	22:32
+patspam	the thing that was slowing me down was not knowing where to look up docs for the APR api	22:32
+patspam	I can never find the damn methods in cpan	22:33
@preaction	yeah, you gotta go to modperl.apache.org or whatever	22:33
+patspam	it's so annoying that you have to guess which package the method is in	22:36
+patspam	Apache2::RequestRec, Apache2::RequestUtil, ..	22:36
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+patspam	I don't know if there's any sane way to keep the content and url handlers API	22:39
+patspam	because they're coupled to Apache request	22:40
@preaction	oh, right, of course	22:41
@preaction	well, URL handlers can go	22:41
@preaction	better idea: just make it a Plack::Request object instead and we'll make people change	22:42
+patspam	yeah that's much more preferable	22:42
+patspam	Asset is the only content handler that is coupled to Apache	22:43
+patspam	for streaming uploads	22:43
@preaction	ah, yeah that'll have to change	22:43
+patspam	but apart from that, we can preserve the contentHandler api	22:44
+patspam	url handlers will be so much nicer as middleware anyway	22:44
@preaction	indeed	22:44
+patspam	the one ugly hack i can remember in plebgui is that it buffers output	22:45
+patspam	but once we rip out Apache::Request I think we can fix that	22:46
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+perlDreamer	patspam, there's some apache module which will tell you in which other modules the docs live	23:20
+perlDreamer	it was posted to the dev list a long time ago	23:20
+patspam	hmm can't find it	23:25
+patspam	well, with any luck I'll have internet access on the bus, so maybe chat to you guys later on	23:30
* patspam heads to boston		23:30
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* perlDreamer heads off to pick up the kids		23:32
+perlDreamer	then I'll see about finding that Apache documentation module	23:33
+perlDreamer	it was perl -MApache:::Something -e 'find method_name;'	23:33
+perlDreamer	very simple	23:33
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+perlDreamer	ha! found it	00:53
+perlDreamer	http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/api/ModPerl/MethodLookup.html	00:53
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Getty	stupid question, someone asked me, can WebGUI run as (Fast)CGI? i dont think so, or?	01:06
+perlDreamer	no	01:12
+perlDreamer	right now it only runs as modpel	01:13
+perlDreamer	modperl	01:13
+perlDreamer	in WebGUI 8, it might run as FastCGI through the magic of Plack	01:13
+perlDreamer	but we shall see	01:13
@preaction	Getty: if you want to help patspam with the plack translation, i'm sure he'd be appreciative (and so would i)	01:19
@preaction	if you can backport it to 7.x that'd be wonderful as well.	01:19
Getty	magic of Plack... ok ;)	01:20
Getty	nah, just curious.... is there mod_perl for lighttpd? so far i avoided mod_perl in general cause it made very strange errors in the past	01:20
+perlDreamer	we've been using it for quite a while now	01:21
+perlDreamer	and aside from using lots of memory, it's been fine	01:21
@preaction	it's not mod_perl so much as Apache::Request <- that's the big part	01:21
Getty	(for example long time mod_perl had the bug to disable parsing off .htaccess files with a path longer then 128 chars, whatever mod_perl was active for the vhost/dir or not)	01:21
Getty	if you had such kind of bugs you avoid that software for a longer time ;)	01:22
@preaction	the WRE puts a mod_proxy instance in front to serve static content or normal CGI stuff, the idea being to get rid of the problems of mod_perl from standard serving	01:22
@preaction	you could use lighty or nginx as the proxy	01:22
Getty	varnish and/or lighttpd should be the highest front	01:22
Getty	varnish + ESI... owns...	01:22
Getty	you REALLY should dive into this if you dont know it	01:22
Getty	its the concept akamai works on	01:23
@preaction	it's something to look at, but first we have to get rid of the reliance on apache	01:26
Getty	actually, if you use varnish + esi you could not care about that anymore	01:27
Getty	seriously	01:27
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Getty	patspam: we just talked about you :-P	01:28
@preaction	apache/mod_perl really hampers us when it comes to performance, real performance	01:28
+patspam	I felt my ears burning	01:28
+perlDreamer	it was better than CGI	01:28
+patspam	yay for bolt bus interwebs	01:28
Getty	preaction: yeah but you gain so much performance with that concept... you know it at all? i always wanted to set it up but my newest employer is actually not in the size for the requirement ;) at my old one they was to less into new technology (thats why i left)	01:29
@preaction	the ESI stuff would probably require a whole bunch of work, and may not even be viable for our model, where an entire page can be completely dependent on the user who is viewing it (not RESTful, but we've never enforced it in the past)	01:29
Getty	the caching of specific layers is something that already boosts much	01:30
Getty	even tho i know what you mean	01:30
@preaction	i'm not saying we can't do it, i'm saying we've got priorities, and our internals are so horrible that i'd rather straighten those out than try to build something on top of it	01:30
Getty	understandable	01:30
Getty	i just say that its worth to have a deeper look at it before you do some more internal rework	01:31
@preaction	i'd love to just scrap the entire project and build something fully modern on a completely async stack with sharding and caching and replication in mind on the full backend, but... well...	01:31
Getty	i know what you mean, 100%	01:31
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Getty	but i'm a rapid developer and i always tell: have one proof of concept so that you got it in mind, and probably "something happens"	01:31
Getty	and you guys are actually the best targets for that concept with that massive control about the env with WRE	01:32
@preaction	well, that's what the Plack stuff is for, to reduce our deps on WRE. that being said, I still want the WRE to be the "Best Way To Deploy WebGUI"	01:33
Getty	yeah it is	01:33
@preaction	but it'd still be nice to "cpan> install WebGUI"	01:33
Getty	yes of course	01:33
Getty	"whatever the user fits best"	01:33
Getty	but its awesome that you even THINK (thought) about WRE	01:33
Getty	that you made it	01:33
Getty	and see it as something that you can offer the user	01:33
@preaction	but then we're back to "so much to do, no manpower"	01:33
Getty	that is really "nextgen" in my eyes	01:33
@preaction	you'd be surprised at the naysayers, even i don't run WRE on my dev box anymore (lib incompatibilities with standard OS X stuff)	01:34
@preaction	but local::lib and perlswitch might work nicely with what we have	01:34
Getty	my resources i give out are mostly concentrated on Padre and lower level libraries (like Webframeworks where you build stuff like WebGUI ;) )	01:34
Getty	yeah	01:34
Getty	i use it that way	01:34
Getty	no wait, i lie i dont	01:34
Getty	but it owuld work	01:34
Getty	no libs you use are incompatible with local::lib	01:35
@preaction	well, WebGUI is its own framework (which i'm trying to fix, see http://github.com/preaction/modern-webgui	01:35
Getty	i just wasnt sure how i use local::lib + mod_Perl and i didnt wanted to try out	01:35
Getty	of course you got your own framework :)	01:35
Getty	i didnt suggested anything else	01:35
Getty	:)	01:35
@preaction	i mean, i like Cat, but it doesn't mesh with the ideas of CMS very well (imho)	01:35
Getty	oh.... i will now start official my learning of Catalyst to port my (dont say one word) PHP Webframework to Perl	01:36
Getty	cause actually i still use it cause there is nothing like that on CPAN ;)	01:36
@preaction	new door	01:36
@preaction	(wow, that joke might be way too inside for anyone to get)	01:37
Getty	and i thought: whatever i do, i should make it on top of Catalyst, cause its made by some of the most experienced CPAN developers and so it should be a good base	01:37
@preaction	new door is an anagram for "one word".	01:37
Getty	sounds like you also like good tea ;)	01:37
@preaction	indeed. it's an app framework, and a CMS could be considered an app	01:37
Getty	catalyst is an app framework?	01:37
Getty	i totally considered it so far as framework	01:38
@preaction	well, web app framework	01:38
Getty	well wait...	01:38
+patspam	Getty: I used local::lib to deploy plebgui on shared hosting	01:38
Getty	mh where i can say the porder	01:38
Getty	aehm border	01:38
Getty	lets say i define an app framework more like something that does something even if you does nothing	01:38
Getty	if you get what i mean	01:38
Getty	even tho i must insist that definition is not that good, even tho its hard to make a REAL border	01:39
@preaction	ah, yes. WebGUI without the core asset set	01:39
@preaction	Catalyst is a framework	01:39
Getty	yeah you need to code an app with it	01:39
@preaction	Django is an app framework (has the admin stuff built-in)	01:39
Getty	yeah	01:39
Getty	that is what i meant	01:39
Getty	my framework does also nearly nothing when you dont do anything	01:39
Getty	but it gives you an error which template is missing ;) so you directly know where to start	01:39
Getty	hehe	01:39
@preaction	modern-webgui is heavily django-influenced (<3 django, but it really needs to start adding to the "app" part)	01:40
Getty	but its just the content template, the complete structure of the page in standard divs is already there blabla you know what i mean	01:40
Getty	its more "app"	01:40
Getty	i got an awesome form management, which now definitly needs refactoring, and i said: fuck that shit i directly convert now to perl	01:41
Getty	my boss is also hot for perl	01:41
Getty	so.... we defined 1 day / week i go now for the perl startup so that we got something in some weeks	01:41
Getty	its so ugly situation if you got something awesome to work with and its just in the wrong language... but its my fault so i cant blame anyone	01:41
Getty	my only big problem still is that i need smarty syntax templates... its still p.d. the best non-coder syntax style, i know you can bend TT much to behave much like that but it seems impossible to make it "$var" instead of "var"	01:42
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CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r913fa9a / (58 files in 20 dirs): clean up Tie::IxHash imports - http://bit.ly/bBzkwl	13:25
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra22162b / (11 files in 4 dirs): clean up Tie::CPHash imports - http://bit.ly/anYS7t	13:25
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r2af4c4d / (47 files in 15 dirs): clean up WebGUI::Utility imports - http://bit.ly/atTsk0	13:25
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r45ca61b / (6 files in 2 dirs): more import cleanups - http://bit.ly/cZk5IY	13:25
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:19
+bartjol	hey scott	16:22
SDuensin	Hey bartjol	16:24
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+bartjol	oh, yeah, a customer called	16:55
+bartjol	strange people	16:55
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+perlDreamer	morning, folks	17:34
SDuensin	Hey perlDreamer	17:35
@Haarg	morning	17:36
@Haarg	is there any reason to keep the 7.7 upgrades in WebGUI8 i'm not thinking of?	17:39
+perlDreamer	none	17:43
+perlDreamer	I just got through pruning the 7.7 upgrades out of 7.8 and 7.9	17:43
SDuensin	Crap. Out of coffee.	17:43
+perlDreamer	taking kids to school, be back in 20	17:43
* SDuensin will still be here.		17:43
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rb24978e / (182 files in 23 dirs): removing old upgrades - http://bit.ly/bfFTRX	17:46
+perlDreamer	Haarg, what do you think about removing the form magic from property, and requiring people to put things into form directly?	17:56
@Haarg	i was thinking about that. the magic is becoming more problematic.	17:57
@Haarg	but it also seems like it should work fine to continue having the magic	17:58
+perlDreamer	what about the thing with adding traits and the meta_property?	17:58
+perlDreamer	it seems like we need to have a class with the trait applied to see what the attribute will do	17:59
+perlDreamer	so then we're building some anonymous throwaway metaclass just to do that	17:59
@Haarg	kind of	17:59
@Haarg	but it caches the metaclass it builds	18:00
@Haarg	based on the traits applied	18:00
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, in order to apply the roles to the anon class, I need to get it inside the buidler for _property_metaclass	18:18
+perlDreamer	but builder methods don't get arguments, other than $self	18:18
+perlDreamer	I think that means we need to flatten it into add_property	18:19
+perlDreamer	"it" being _property_metaclass	18:19
@Haarg	yeah, we might just want to do away with _property_metaclass	18:20
+perlDreamer	are you going to talk about Moose at the WUC this year, Haarg?	18:27
@Haarg	no. i don't remember if someone else was planning on talking about it.	18:28
@Haarg	ugh i hate UNIVERSAL::(isa\|can) so much	18:37
+perlDreamer	yeah	18:39
+perlDreamer	if it would just shut up, it would be a little more tolerable	18:40
@Haarg	i would be fine with the warnings if they weren't all false positives	18:40
@Haarg	like this	18:41
@Haarg	Called UNIVERSAL::isa() as a function, not a method at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/UNIVERSAL/can.pm line 43	18:41
+perlDreamer	any thoughts on this: http://gist.github.com/329325	18:45
@Haarg	where is that trait supposed to be from?	18:48
+perlDreamer	Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::Trait::Array	18:48
+perlDreamer	I think that's the problem	18:48
+perlDreamer	there's magic in traits to expand Array into Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::Trait::Array	18:48
@Haarg	yeah	18:49
+perlDreamer	$perlDreamer->invoke('dispel magic', 'WebGUI::Definition::add_property');	18:50
+perlDreamer	crud	18:50
+perlDreamer	You have to be a level 3 magic user to do that	18:50
+perlDreamer	or was it level 5?	18:52
+perlDreamer	it's been too long ago	18:52
@Haarg	that may be the best way to go	18:57
@Haarg	there are two other alternatives. first is using Moose::Meta::Class->interpolate_class(_and_new)? to make the metaclass object	18:58
@Haarg	and the other 'better' solution that we don't have time for, which is making traits for all of the form types	18:58
+perlDreamer	that would mean that I'd need to build a form type for handling JSON in the db, for things that never send the JSON to a form	18:59
+perlDreamer	but I agree that we need a type system, and have our forms interact with that	19:00
+perlDreamer	and, personally, I think we should base it on native Moose type, and build around that, rather than the other way around	19:00
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+perlDreamer	I think that's a typo	19:04
+perlDreamer	I don't see an interpolate_class in Moose::Meta::Class	19:04
@Haarg	i guess it isn't in the pod	19:05
+perlDreamer	it's not in the code, either	19:05
+perlDreamer	it's actually in Moose::Meta::Attribute	19:05
@Haarg	err	19:05
+perlDreamer	and it does resolve trait names	19:05
@Haarg	yeah, that's the one	19:05
+perlDreamer	the farther back we push into Moose, the more susceptible we're going to be to future change	19:06
@Haarg	especially for undocumented methods	19:07
+perlDreamer	that's just a typo, I'll track down their repo and submit a doc patch	19:08
@Haarg	typo?	19:08
+perlDreamer	in the docs, it says to call Moose::Meta::Class->interp....	19:09
+perlDreamer	it should be Moose::Meta::Attribute->interp	19:09
@Haarg	Moose::Meta::Attribute->interpolate_class is undocumented though	19:09
+perlDreamer	right, the only one that's documented is interpolate_class_and_new	19:10
* perlDreamer goes to the gym		19:13
@Haarg	unfortunately, interpolate_class is the one we want	19:20
@Haarg	perlDreamer, completely untested but i was thinking something like this http://gist.github.com/329395	19:32
+perlDreamer	it looks exactly right, codewise	20:17
+perlDreamer	I'll see what the tests say	20:17
+perlDreamer	maybe a quick pop into #moose to ask about that method?	20:17
+perlDreamer	'cuz I'd be happy to make them a doc patch for it	20:17
Getty	whats the problem?	20:18
+perlDreamer	and to find out if it's going to be, expected to be deprecated	20:18
+perlDreamer	this method: Moose::Meta::Attribute->interpolate_class	20:18
+perlDreamer	is not documented in the POD	20:18
+perlDreamer	from previous, painful experience, that means it might not be wise to use it, Getty	20:18
Getty	there are many not documented in the POD cause they are used internal or shouldnt be used by users who have no idea	20:18
Getty	yeah	20:18
Getty	those functions are 99% sure to be changed or dropped	20:18
Getty	i even think that i know of interpolate_class that its not the right way	20:19
@Haarg	not the right way for what?	20:24
@Haarg	perlDreamer, i think i have my WebGUI::Paths branch working properly. the only things that still refer to the WebGUI lib directory are the POD/Perl::Critic tests. api breaks on WebGUI::Session->open and WebGUI::Config->new.	20:28
+perlDreamer	those are low usage API methods, and we're in 8 anyway	20:28
@Haarg	yeah	20:28
+perlDreamer	Haarg, does changing ownership of a file leave a timestamp somewhere I can check?	20:29
+perlDreamer	in the filesystem?	20:29
@Haarg	don't believe so	20:29
@Haarg	why?	20:29
+perlDreamer	Getty, why is interpolate_class the wrong way to do it?	20:42
Getty	its just somehting that pops into my mind if i remember	20:42
Getty	i must check into it what it does again, then i probably remember my case	20:42
Getty	but i did some deeper stuff in moose and that is function-ape-jungle-hopping ;)	20:43
+perlDreamer	I think I'll do some googling, then ask in #moose real quick	21:07
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+perlDreamer	hey, tavisto!	21:17
@tavisto	hey brotah	21:17
@tavisto	er brotha	21:17
@tavisto	how's life?	21:18
+perlDreamer	very busy	21:18
+perlDreamer	kids, jobs, wife	21:19
+perlDreamer	cooking, cleaning, laundry	21:19
+perlDreamer	remodeling, electrical work, appliance installs	21:19
@Haarg	hey tavisto, did you see that steam + valve's games are coming to mac?	21:22
@Haarg	no more rebooting needed for tf2	21:23
@tavisto	yeah, been busy here too. Craziness. hehe I've been working on my house a lot as well.	21:23
@tavisto	Just finished my taxes so that's a good thing to check off my list. And no I hadn't heard about steam coming to mac.. That rocks!!!	21:24
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@tavisto	Haarg, you enjoying your MBP upgrade? I like this sooo much better.	21:32
@Haarg	it is quite nice, yeah	21:32
@tavisto	really nice when I have to jump into windows on VMware	21:33
@tavisto	Does anyone know why my ^AdSpace(); macro would just print out on a style template rather than showing an ad?	21:33
@tavisto	I'm sitting here thinking... there's nothing to it.... or am I just having a brain fart	21:34
@Haarg	not sure. where is this?	21:34
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+perlDreamer	the Ad in the AdSpace could have a problem	21:35
@Haarg	i hope they make 85W power adapters with the new connector at some point http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC461LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDEwMQ&mco=MTMzODAwMDI	21:35
@Haarg	would be much more convenient than the current ones	21:35
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@tavisto	Haarg, perlDreamer it's on the TGC Forums (bugs)	21:39
@tavisto	instead of rendering the ad, it just prints out the macro on the page	21:39
@tavisto	I'm 99% sure that macro is enabled by default	21:39
+perlDreamer	we can check that	21:40
+perlDreamer	nope, it's not	21:41
+perlDreamer	you want it added, tavisto?	21:41
@tavisto	oh crap then that's why	21:42
@tavisto	could you enable that on TGC	21:42
+perlDreamer	sure	21:42
@tavisto	thanks, I'm sitting here wondering what the heck is going on	21:42
+perlDreamer	okay, please give her a retry	21:43
+perlDreamer	oh yeah	21:45
@tavisto	booyah grandma	21:46
+perlDreamer	normally we don't do support for clients over IRC, but we always make an exception for you, tavisto	21:48
@tavisto	gee thanks	21:53
@tavisto	I have a special support package	21:53
+perlDreamer	It's the Brazilian BBQ+ package	21:54
+perlDreamer	speaking of which, it is definitely time for lunch	22:04
+perlDreamer	bbiaw	22:04
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, that returns a meta class of the class Moose::Meta::Attribute	23:21
+perlDreamer	and technically, it only returns a class name	23:22
+perlDreamer	and now Definition.t passes: http://gist.github.com/329691	23:38
+perlDreamer	I'll try the others next	23:38
+perlDreamer	all right!	23:44
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf4467cb / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Class.pm : Attempt #1 to pass traits through property. - http://bit.ly/91yb6D	23:44
+perlDreamer	we have traits	23:44
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r570eea7 / t/Definition.t : Add test for passing through traits. - http://bit.ly/atojzC	23:44
+perlDreamer	now I just have to write some	23:44
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CIA-58	WebGUI: translation * r12452 /translations/ (201 files in 3 dirs): Updating Czech on translation server	10:58
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SynQhome	bah	14:33
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:17
+bartjol	hey scott, learned dutch already?	16:20
SDuensin	Voorjen!	16:23
SDuensin	That close?	16:23
+bartjol	voorjen? what kind of dialect is that?	16:25
SDuensin	It had double vowels and a J in a strange place. Looked Dutch to me. :-P	16:26
+bartjol	it looks like it, but does not sound like it, so it is not a duck	16:29
SDuensin	Then it's not a witch.	16:30
SDuensin	Oh! Amazing! I get IE7 on March 15th!	16:31
* SDuensin can't stand stupid corporate America.		16:31
+bartjol	eeeh, where are you located?	16:31
* bartjol means : where in time		16:31
+bartjol	and they're not going for the full ie8 in one go?	16:32
SDuensin	In time? 2010. :-P	16:32
SDuensin	Government contractor dude. I'm surprised I get 7.	16:32
SDuensin	(Although I already have 8 and Chrome on my machine.)	16:32
+bartjol	it is an improvement, and soon I will get the browser choice screen microsoft update	16:33
+bartjol	european regulations++	16:33
SDuensin	hehe	16:33
+bartjol	mmm, 500 karma left to spend from my pile of karma	16:38
+bartjol	and, I spend it all	16:40
SDuensin	Got an odd question... Ever lock down WebGUI pages based on the browser's user-agent?	16:40
+bartjol	well, I wanted to one time, but I never came around to do so	16:40
+bartjol	actually, when using ie, i wanted to show a solitair jumping cards video and a text: use another browser, or go play games	16:41
SDuensin	I'm building a rather interesting service and wanted to use WebGUI to provide a lot of the generic functions (user management, billing, forums, etc) but I don't want them being accessed outside my custom client.	16:42
SDuensin	Hehe	16:42
+bartjol	mmm, that does a bit like monopolising	16:42
SDuensin	I used to embed a script in all my sites that helped people get away from IE6 if they were using it. Then the bastards at Microsoft bought the domain that was doing the anti-IE6 campaign and took the script down!	16:43
+bartjol	what, even microsoft wants people to upgrade, stupid mrrpprgfffpowhfp	16:43
SDuensin	Well, I'm not going to lock down the entire site. Just the pages that require my browser to properly render.	16:44
+bartjol	and when they use the wrong browser they got redirected to a site that says, please use <my browser> for viewing this page	16:46
+bartjol	?	16:46
SDuensin	No, just back to the home page of the site.	16:46
+bartjol	well, that are details	16:46
SDuensin	Only way they'd ever even be able to try and access one of those custom browser pages with a different browser is if they're poking around and doing things they shouldn't be doing. :-)	16:47
+bartjol	eeeh, I am think of a contenthandler that sets scratch variable, and when it exists on the page there is a macro that redirects you	16:48
+bartjol	but that may be to late	16:48
+bartjol	you'l get a blink of the scrteen	16:48
SDuensin	What about even before WebGUI gets it? Make Apache do the filtering?	16:49
+bartjol	off course, but I was thinking more generically	16:49
SDuensin	Generic is good. :-)	16:50
+bartjol	because, you'll have to set each url	16:50
+bartjol	my way, you can make a template:	16:50
+bartjol	<tmpl_if my_scratch>then redirect<tmpl_else>all my cool html</tmpl_if>	16:50
+bartjol	but	16:51
SDuensin	Interesting.	16:51
+bartjol	problem	16:51
+bartjol	you only want to do that once per session	16:51
+bartjol	so	16:51
+bartjol	only at first access	16:52
SDuensin	Where would "my_scratch" come from?	16:52
+bartjol	the first request in of the session must call the method to set it	16:53
+bartjol	which requests meddling in the session code	16:54
+bartjol	eq "undesirable"	16:54
SDuensin	Yea. That'd be bad.	16:54
+bartjol	don\'t fiddle with session or die;	16:55
+bartjol	well	16:55
SDuensin	I'd rather tweak Apache than WebGUI code.	16:56
+bartjol	yeah	16:56
+bartjol	thinking of a contenthandler that always is called, but does nothing if sessioncookie exists	16:56
+bartjol	that already sounds better\	16:56
SDuensin	For the most part, I can just "hide" the URLs. However, I know some goober out there is going to snoop them with a proxy of some kind and go poking around.	16:57
+bartjol	but you'll have to set each apache request to use that handler, and also be able to caal other handlers	16:57
+bartjol	arg	16:57
+bartjol	people like me	16:58
SDuensin	What about just using rewrite to bounce requests targeted for a specific sub-folder of the site?	16:58
+bartjol	in apache?	16:58
SDuensin	Yea	16:58
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SDuensin	Hey perlDreamer	16:59
+perlDreamer	morning, SDuensin	16:59
+bartjol	well, during thinking of other solutions, this is starting to sound better and better	16:59
+perlDreamer	what's up?	16:59
SDuensin	bartjol - hehe	16:59
+bartjol	SD wants to lock out ie6 users	16:59
SDuensin	perlDreamer - Trying to make WebGUI do things it's not intended to do. :-)	16:59
+perlDreamer	et tu, SD?	16:59
SDuensin	Actually, I want to lock out ALL standard browser users.	16:59
+perlDreamer	why?	17:00
SDuensin	You're in the USA, right? Ever hear of "Steam"?	17:00
+perlDreamer	Yeah, some game company, right?	17:00
SDuensin	Well, Valve is the company. Steam is their client. But yea...	17:01
SDuensin	Basically, half their client is delivered as HTML. Makes it very easy for them to update content...	17:01
SDuensin	I'm doing the same thing and don't want non-client users poking around on the special pages intended to be rendered inside the client software.	17:01
+perlDreamer	should be very easy to do	17:03
+perlDreamer	add browser rejection via a URL Handler	17:03
SDuensin	So enlighten us, oh master. :-P	17:03
* perlDreamer will ponder briefly		17:03
+perlDreamer	it was a very long night last night for support calls	17:03
SDuensin	NP	17:04
SDuensin	No rush. Domain isn't even online yet.	17:04
SDuensin	This is a brand-spankin' new project.	17:04
+perlDreamer	I think the best way to do this is actually via Apache	17:10
+perlDreamer	where you put rules in the vhost section that requires a certain client to access the site	17:11
SDuensin	That's what I was thinking. Just wanted more opinions.	17:11
SDuensin	And it's not even the entire site - just a branch of it.	17:11
+bartjol	oh, I thought it were some random pages throuhout	17:16
+bartjol	a branche makes it better	17:16
SDuensin	Nope. I can contain them into one area.	17:16
* bartjol is getting very good at thinking of too complicated solutions		17:17
SDuensin	Hehe	17:17
SDuensin	You might be perfect for this project!	17:17
+bartjol	well, you can hire me probably	17:17
SDuensin	Sure. I pay $0 a day.	17:17
+bartjol	ah, Koen will not agree with that	17:18
+bartjol	how much by the hour?	17:18
+perlDreamer	$0/8	17:18
SDuensin	:-)	17:18
+bartjol	that would be a very nice cooperation, I think of too complicated solutions all day, and you'll do it with the easy one in 5 minutes	17:19
+perlDreamer	are you going to submit a WUC talk, bartjol?	17:29
+bartjol	well	17:30
+bartjol	I'd like to, but	17:30
+bartjol	not sure whether I can come yet	17:31
+bartjol	I'd actually thought of webgui cluster building	17:31
+bartjol	which might be a bit too easy maybe	17:31
+bartjol	and to linux focussed	17:31
SDuensin	Bah. Who cares about Windows hippies. :-)	17:32
+bartjol	or apples	17:32
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't worry about linux focus, few people run WebGUI on windows anymore	17:32
+bartjol	yeah	17:32
+bartjol	well	17:32
+bartjol	first see whether I can come	17:32
+bartjol	some organisational limits I'm bumping into	17:33
+perlDreamer	I think someone spammed the Czech translation on the server	17:39
+bartjol	may very well be	17:40
+perlDreamer	try translating the notes.txt file	17:41
+bartjol	mmm, what is submitted looks quite normal to me	17:43
+bartjol	are it not just the files being added?	17:44
+perlDreamer	no, some of the files have actually been translated, and they're okay	17:45
+perlDreamer	brb, have to take kids to school	17:45
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+perlDreamer	back	17:55
SDuensin	Me too. :-)	17:55
* SDuensin lost his tether. Thanks, AT&T.		17:55
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r953df35 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum.pm : Remove duplicate accessor method. -	18:07
* bartjol knows that html is not css and has done his best to brak the news in a subtle manner		18:07
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3ea797b / (7 files in 2 dirs): Wobject tests, through letter M. - http://bit.ly/bLH3MC	18:07
+perlDreamer	bartjol: who is the recipient of the bad news?	18:08
+bartjol	a very well appreciated colleague of mr patspam	18:10
+bartjol	well everybody's got his own comfort zone	18:11
+perlDreamer	I need some bash command line help	18:14
+perlDreamer	I want to do this:	18:14
+perlDreamer	for file in (`ls /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject`) do; cp template $file; done	18:14
SDuensin	So do it. :-)	18:15
SDuensin	May want to toss a "-1" (dash one) behind the ls.	18:15
+perlDreamer	-1 ?	18:15
+bartjol	small L>	18:15
+perlDreamer	whenever I've piped ls into anything, it's always done that for	18:17
+perlDreamer	me	18:17
SDuensin	"dash one" just gives a list of filenames, no other output.	18:19
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+perlDreamer	time to take some time to read Ovid's complete Test::Class tutorial	18:23
+perlDreamer	because there must be an easier way than listing each test class in the run script	18:23
+bartjol	mmm, custom workflow giving errors	18:32
+bartjol	debug code can be removed after debugging	18:34
+perlDreamer	or use $session->log->debug('debug comment');	18:35
+perlDreamer	then you can leave it in, and enable it via log.conf	18:36
+bartjol	well, i just made a comment to see whther it run at all	18:36
+bartjol	it does apparently	18:36
+bartjol	just a bit lazy	18:37
+bartjol	ok, now for Unable to load WebGUI::i18n::English::Dutch	18:38
+MrHairgrease	The correct class name for that module would be WebGUI::i18n::Denglish	18:39
+perlDreamer	You sure it isn't WebGUI::i18n::Engutch?	18:40
+MrHairgrease	No, we call the Anglified Dutch Denglish in the NL	18:40
+MrHairgrease	Just like we have Chinglish for Chinese-English	18:41
+bartjol	I'm not doing that translation as well	18:41
+MrHairgrease	holy crap	18:41
+MrHairgrease	both perldreamer and patspam commenting on blogs.perl.com!	18:41
+perlDreamer	huh?	18:41
+perlDreamer	who, me?	18:41
+MrHairgrease	yeah you	18:42
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re0e71a5 / t/run_asset.t : Add Navigation, Poll, ProjectManager to run script. - http://bit.ly/9PQGEz	18:42
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8209de7 / (23 files in 4 dirs): Add tests for most other wobjects. Block broken code in Role/Asset/Comments. Refactor run_asset.t - http://bit.ly/cV7l7P	18:42
+MrHairgrease	on the 100% test coverage thread	18:42
+perlDreamer	yeah, 100% test coverage is misleading	18:42
+perlDreamer	I wrote 2000 tests in the last 3 days	18:42
+MrHairgrease	wow	18:42
+MrHairgrease	you have been busy...	18:42
+perlDreamer	I cheated	18:42
+perlDreamer	I used Test::Class	18:42
+bartjol	mmm i tried loading dutch twice	18:44
+MrHairgrease	double ducth	18:44
+bartjol	it sure is	18:44
+perlDreamer	where is patspam's comment on blogs.perl.org?	18:45
+MrHairgrease	http://blogs.perl.org/users/sawyer_x/2010/03/measuring-the-progress-of-ui.html#comments	18:45
+MrHairgrease	last comments	18:45
+MrHairgrease	s/s//	18:45
+bartjol	so long, it's beer o clock	18:49
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2997471 / (3 files in 3 dirs): fix assetName calls for Asset and Wobject. - http://bit.ly/auNa6s	18:55
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf56523c / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : add lastUpdated stamp for mobile style labels. - http://bit.ly/9Tewlr	18:56
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rc57e40e / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : add lastUpdated stamp for mobile style labels. - http://bit.ly/b97AIA	18:56
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r85121c5 / (98 files in 8 dirs): Move Test::Asset* to Test::WebGUI::Asset* - http://bit.ly/bkHoqU	19:01
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elnino	good evening!	06:49
elnino	I'm trying to implement this: http://javascript.internet.com/miscellaneous/browser-correct-download-instructions.html	06:49
elnino	but instead of getting the strings that I'm supposed to be getitng, I get: /<![CDATA[//]]>/ as the output	06:49
elnino	I created a snippet to create the download.js, cache 1 second	06:50
elnino	type javascript/text	06:50
elnino	and put the script in the head	06:50
elnino	and then copied the call to the function in another snippet, cache 1 sec.	06:50
elnino	I've done things like this before, but getting CDATA is throwin gme for a loop.	06:50
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CIA-58	WebGUI: translation * r12453 /translations/German/German/Asset_Survey.pm: Updating German on translation server	16:55
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CIA-58	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * rad176a9 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Ready to start thinking about IO bound delayed response -	18:32
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf7589e6 / (48 files in 5 dirs): Refactoring to remove putting className into each test class. WIP. - http://bit.ly/9E5vxG	06:06
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r20507ee / (47 files in 5 dirs): Calculate class to load. Remove class method from each test file. Fix typos. - http://bit.ly/bGVefh	06:06
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r790ccbe / t/run_asset.t : Fix script to work and load the utility test module. - http://bit.ly/cxDw0I	06:06
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r41fffba / (46 files in 4 dirs): Remove FindBin from test class sub-modules. - http://bit.ly/ayCAOm	06:06
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd4eae41 / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo.pm : Add a test for Photo - http://bit.ly/c2HWxl	06:23
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3a2f94f / (4 files): Test for some Sku's. - http://bit.ly/9JevaZ	06:27
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CIA-58	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r38fba2d / (34 files in 11 dirs): update copyright year - http://bit.ly/bBJ2t6	15:49
CIA-58	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r8dfd618 / lib/WGDev/Command/For/Each.pm : add for-each command - http://bit.ly/8Z4RJ6	15:49
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rae31597 / t/tests/My/Test/Class.pm : Forgot the custom test subclass. - http://bit.ly/9PXPOr	18:04
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+patspam	preaction: ping	00:27
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@preaction	patspam: sup	03:07
+patspam	I am knee-deep in psgi	03:07
+patspam	about halfway through ripping out apache and re-psgi-ifying webgui8	03:07
@preaction	yay	03:08
+patspam	the really juicy question is what to do about streaming	03:08
@preaction	okay, what's the problem and what are our options?	03:09
+patspam	I'm tempted to steal the Tatsumaki approach, which supports both blocking streaming and asynchronous streaming, with a unified API	03:09
+patspam	but I'm trying to be conservative	03:10
@preaction	so the problem is our "ability" to stream files through WebGUI	03:10
+patspam	just content at this stage, not files	03:10
+patspam	e.g. ProgressBar	03:10
@preaction	ahhh	03:11
+patspam	e.g. for (1..10) { $session->output->print($_); sleep 1 }	03:11
@preaction	well, that's a solution to a different problem. if there's another solution we can implement it will be fine	03:11
+patspam	yeah true	03:12
@preaction	i hate to go this way, but would tying ourselves to POE be a bad thing?	03:14
@preaction	actually, JT might have some insight	03:15
@preaction	he mentioned dealing with the async/blocking problem when developing SimpleDB::Class	03:15
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CIA-58	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * rb63d1eb / (6 files in 6 dirs): mid-way commit - http://bit.ly/aywoIR	04:10
CIA-58	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r76d8ecf / (8 files in 7 dirs): Demo site loads - http://bit.ly/c0BVvB	04:10
+patspam	preaction: I think using AnyEvent is the preferred approach	04:10
+patspam	anyway, enough for today, talk more tomorrow	04:10
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SDuensin	Greetings.	15:19
+bartjol	might it oh, hi scott	15:29
+bartjol	mmm, SDuensin, I submitted an rfe, but I'm wondering whether I wouldn't call it a bug	15:37
+bartjol	mm, better ask colin later, he has the power to move that stuff	15:38
SDuensin	I like bugs. Bugs get fixed. RFEs get whined over. :-)	15:39
+bartjol	well, missing POD might be considered a bug	15:46
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+bartjol	morning colin	16:21
+bartjol	I was wondering whether my rfe might be considered a bug: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11474	16:21
+perlDreamer	definitely	16:22
+perlDreamer	let's fix it now	16:22
+perlDreamer	upload the docs you want, and we'll include it in the next WRE release	16:22
+bartjol	ah	16:23
+perlDreamer	this last batch of remodeling went very well	16:23
+bartjol	cool	16:23
+bartjol	pictures?	16:23
+perlDreamer	forthcoming	16:23
+bartjol	well, I've read the code a bit, but I'm not sure yet what the input should be exactly	16:24
+bartjol	A line which says:	16:25
+bartjol	# Put your dir names that should not be included in the backup below. Just the dir name and 1 per line.	16:25
+bartjol	I'm not sure whether the path can be included	16:25
+bartjol	reading wre:file.pm now	16:28
+bartjol	ah	16:29
+bartjol	I see, it uses the tar --exclude-from option	16:30
+bartjol	so patterns are excluded	16:30
+bartjol	something like: # Put in patterns, one per line, that should not be included in the backup. These options are passed into the --exclude-from option from tar. Therefore a complete path is not needed.	16:35
+perlDreamer	will it exclude lines with comments in there, or do they need to be stripped out?	16:37
+bartjol	yeah, I was wondering that	16:37
+perlDreamer	maybe we should put it into the POD for backup.pl, if there is any?	16:38
+bartjol	well, backup.pl --help doesn't do anything, I'll have a look	16:38
+bartjol	hmpg: :~$ perldoc /data/wre/sbin/backup.pl	16:39
+bartjol	No documentation found for "/data/wre/sbin/backup.pl".	16:39
+perlDreamer	since it's in the WRE, we should assign it to SynQhome	16:40
+bartjol	added a note with the proposed comment (slightly altered)	16:41
+bartjol	he isn't at home	16:41
+bartjol	I changed the wiki on the site	16:41
+perlDreamer	if you have a bit, can you try to duplicate this bug: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11473	16:42
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+perlDreamer	I don't know how he's doing it, but I'm not able to hit it in 7.9	16:42
+bartjol	sure	16:42
+bartjol	mmm, at first I cannot reproduce it either	16:46
+perlDreamer	martien's bug hit rate is about 60% (subjectively), and he runs custom code in the core	16:46
+bartjol	aaah wait	16:46
+perlDreamer	going to have to discount this one, probably, or ask him how he does that	16:46
+bartjol	I have seen that	16:46
+perlDreamer	brb, have to take kids to school	16:46
+bartjol	mmm, I believe it is the isDefault field in the template table	16:57
+bartjol	which is 0 in the duplicated template	16:57
+bartjol	but I have seen this behaviour	16:57
+perlDreamer	I remember a bug about it, but it was a long time ago	17:01
+perlDreamer	not in recent code	17:01
+bartjol	mmm, I believe I mainly ignored those messages	17:10
+bartjol	martien posted something	17:10
+bartjol	ah, well, I must wait till 7.9.1	17:11
+perlDreamer	it's a duplicate of an earlier bug, #11459	17:15
+perlDreamer	the upgrade to 7.9.0 marked every template as duplicate by accident	17:16
+perlDreamer	which was the opposite of the upgrade to 7.8.0, which marked no new templates added by WebGUI as duplicates.	17:16
+bartjol	ah	17:17
+perlDreamer	and I think I've fixed both problems from here on out	17:18
+bartjol	duplicate? not default?	17:19
+bartjol	why should a template been marked as duplicate anyway, from the duplication on, it is just an asset	17:21
+perlDreamer	sorry, not as duplicates, but as default	17:21
+bartjol	you're just trying to confuse me	17:23
* perlDreamer is sleep deprived due to daylight savings changes		17:25
+bartjol	was that this weekend?	17:29
SDuensin	yup	17:30
+perlDreamer	ugh, yes	17:30
SDuensin	I say we all boycott when they try and change back.	17:31
+perlDreamer	yeah, why go back to daylight wasting time?	17:31
SDuensin	I have no idea dude. Government decision.	17:31
+bartjol	we first have to get rid of timezones	17:34
+bartjol	daylight saving only starts at the 28th of march	17:40
+perlDreamer	President Bush extended it, so that it starts earlier and goes later in the year for us	17:42
+bartjol	what a genius mind	17:43
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SDuensin	I'm rocketing into the future today! I get XP Service Pack 3!	17:50
+perlDreamer	watch out for whiplash, SDuensin	18:05
SDuensin	IE7, here I come!	18:06
+bartjol	you employer doesn't really care about safety, does he SDuensin?	18:09
SDuensin	My employer is a contractor to the government. Stupid is as stupid does.	18:10
+perlDreamer	bartjol, bunch of calendar i18n coming your way tomorrow	18:42
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rce08b3d / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : Fix a syntax error in the wobject i18n file. - http://bit.ly/aTh6C5	18:43
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc4b3e1e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the calendar month template variables. Fixes bug #11472. - http://bit.ly/cIk03W	18:43
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * re4299c6 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the calendar month template variables. Fixes bug #11472. - http://bit.ly/dmIoF8	18:44
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1637840 / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : Fix a syntax error in the wobject i18n file. - http://bit.ly/9o7D0N	18:44
+bartjol	ah	18:46
+bartjol	np	18:46
+perlDreamer	8-12 new entries, and 4 edits	18:46
+bartjol	there goes my morning	18:48
+bartjol	at least, half an hour of it	18:48
+bartjol	maybe	18:48
+perlDreamer	I can make some tweaks to the transalation CGI if you want it to take more time	18:49
+bartjol	no thanks	18:51
+perlDreamer	as you wish	18:51
+bartjol	I finally spend all ning's karma	18:51
+bartjol	and, does backup.pl already has POD?	18:52
+perlDreamer	no	18:52
+bartjol	why not?	18:53
+bartjol	and now?	18:54
+perlDreamer	because you haven't written it yet?	18:54
+perlDreamer	:)	18:54
+bartjol	ah	18:54
+bartjol	well, there I go	18:54
+perlDreamer	that's why we should file a bug and assign it to SynQ	18:54
+bartjol	I can do that at home tonight	18:54
+perlDreamer	do you have commit access to that repo?	18:56
+bartjol	of copurse not	18:57
+bartjol	but I can make it, and give it to someone who does	18:57
+bartjol	I don have any commit access	18:57
+perlDreamer	post it as a bug, or drop me an email and it will be added	18:59
+bartjol	can you move rfe? to bug status, and assign it to me	19:00
+bartjol	?	19:00
+bartjol	that link I pasted	19:00
+perlDreamer	yes	19:02
+bartjol	excellent	19:03
+bartjol	well, I suppose it? feeding time	19:06
+bartjol	I must change my keyboard settings...	19:06
+bartjol	pod writing tonight	19:08
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4fa04a2 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix CSS and HTML errors in the Event Edit template. Fixes bug #11471. - http://bit.ly/dw2WMV	19:25
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5869cfe / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Proper bug annotation. - http://bit.ly/dxCJAN	19:26
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r5efa9bc / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix CSS and HTML errors in the Event Edit template. Fixes bug #11471. - http://bit.ly/bnuK6B	19:27
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rea3d7e0 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Proper bug annotation. - http://bit.ly/aGEf0o	19:27
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r5463f96 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move the package to the right directory - http://bit.ly/dddnGK	19:27
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0a00583 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm): Force inheritPermissionsFromParent to work in all import scenarios. Also, fix handling of clearPackageFlag and setDefaultTemplate. - http://bit.ly/aSiDVR	20:22
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rb526340 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm): Force inheritPermissionsFromParent to work in all import scenarios. Also, fix handling of clearPackageFlag and setDefaultTemplate. - http://bit.ly/bDzpR7	20:22
+perlDreamer	deleting a remote tag is surprisingly difficult	20:41
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@Haarg	really?	21:04
@Haarg	can't you just git push origin :tag-name ?	21:05
+perlDreamer	nope	21:10
+perlDreamer	oh, wait	21:10
+perlDreamer	I didn't try with a colon	21:10
+perlDreamer	I had to do this: git push origin :refs/tags/v7.8.13	21:10
+perlDreamer	but I didn't try git push origin :v7.8.13	21:11
+perlDreamer	bopbop: why do you think there should be a red X next to the attachment in a post?	21:12
@bopbop	because otherwise I have to save the post in order to get it to delete	21:13
@bopbop	so it gets emailed out again	21:13
@bopbop	then I have to edit, reattach, and save again	21:13
+perlDreamer	the X used to be there?	21:13
@bopbop	so it gets emailed out yet again	21:13
@bopbop	I believe so	21:13
@bopbop	before, you confirmed you wanted to delete the attachment then clicked the red X	21:13
@bopbop	the attachment went away and the browse field returned	21:14
@bopbop	all in the same screen... no saving	21:14
+perlDreamer	I'll start checking old versions and see what happened	21:14
@bopbop	check in 7.5ish	21:14
+perlDreamer	okay, it's not in 7.6 for sure	21:15
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+perlDreamer	No X in 7.5.40	21:17
+perlDreamer	but there is an X next to an article	21:18
+perlDreamer	article attachment	21:18
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+perlDreamer	hm, but there's a note about it being removed	21:20
+perlDreamer	from the Post	21:20
+perlDreamer	apparently I pulled it out because it bypasses revision control	21:21
+perlDreamer	but that's the rub	21:21
+perlDreamer	if it starts obeying revision control again, then it will send out notices when the attachments are updated	21:21
+perlDreamer	bopbop: this is the bug in question: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9260	21:22
@bopbop	well, I think it was a mistake	21:23
@bopbop	I don't think it needs to be deleted from the uploads directory	21:23
@bopbop	just the cs post	21:23
+perlDreamer	the cs post stores its attachments in the uploads directory	21:24
+perlDreamer	all attachments go in there	21:24
@bopbop	well, I can go ahead and do it how it has to be done now, I just don't appreciate the backlash from the users who are going to email me with "stop spamming my email" replies	21:24
@bopbop	after they get the email three times so I can change the image	21:24
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+perlDreamer	try changing the commit workflow to commit with approval	21:25
+perlDreamer	that may not send out the notification until it's approved	21:25
+perlDreamer	and would let you edit it several times	21:25
@bopbop	alright... I understand why this particular person wanted it changed, but I think the "fix" had larger implications for other users	21:26
+perlDreamer	We can always ask Doug to look at the larger situation and decide if we should change it.	21:29
* perlDreamer goes for a run		21:30
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r16a2e4e / www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey.js : Fix some more surve JS i18n. - http://bit.ly/9Y815T	23:21
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r6e5a437 / www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey.js : Fix some more surve JS i18n. - http://bit.ly/bRXmyf	23:31
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Edlik	can anyone recommend a free hosting service for webGUI or does anyone know if 000webhost.com can host it? I havent been able to find out what os they use.	14:23
+bartjol	ah	14:25
+bartjol	well, there aren't many free webgui hosters I'm afraid	14:25
+bartjol	I don't know about 000webhost.com	14:25
+bartjol	root access isn't mentioned	14:26
+bartjol	So Edlik, I'm afraid you'll have to look somewhere else	14:28
+bartjol	you at least will have to go for the 5$/month, ssh access is included	14:34
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SDuensin	Morning.	15:31
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+bartjol	hey scott	15:49
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+perlDreamer	good morning, good WebGUI folks	17:15
+bartjol	hi	17:22
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+bartjol	perlDreamer: I'd like somefeedback on the implementation of the documentation I made	17:39
+perlDreamer	did you want informed feedback, or do you want me to wing it?	17:40
+bartjol	eeeh, the first sounds better, but "wing it" is unfamiliar to me	17:40
+bartjol	if it means "take over from you" that's ok ofcourse :P	17:41
+bartjol	no, I'll finish the stuff	17:41
+perlDreamer	wing it == shoot from the hip == improvise	17:41
+perlDreamer	for the wre.conf examples, this is what I would do	17:42
+perlDreamer	I would describe each option stand alone, which no hash syntax	17:42
+bartjol	I, I improvised	17:42
+bartjol	ah	17:42
+perlDreamer	then I would show a sample pieice of wre.conf in the correct format	17:42
+bartjol	so a bit like I did, but without the out-of-place hash syntax	17:43
+bartjol	and an examle	17:43
+bartjol	well, it is better than it was	17:43
+perlDreamer	totally	17:44
+perlDreamer	just having the POD is 80% of the solution	17:44
+perlDreamer	in fact, I can take what you wrote and do the tweaking that I'm suggesting	17:45
+perlDreamer	sound okay?	17:45
+bartjol	oh, well	17:47
+bartjol	depends whether you're looking for work or not	17:47
+bartjol	maybe for just one	17:48
+bartjol	so we have a nice cooperated example	17:48
+bartjol	and I can alter the rest of the scripts in wre/sbin	17:48
+bartjol	from POD view those are crap	17:48
+perlDreamer	okay, I'll do the backup one and commit it	17:49
+bartjol	great	17:49
+bartjol	I won't have the time for it till thursday	17:50
+perlDreamer	okay	17:54
+bartjol	but it is missing for years	17:54
+bartjol	I dunno when the next official release of the wre will be	17:55
+bartjol	I should ask Koen I suppose	17:55
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+bartjol	he Tiler Parker	17:56
+perlDreamer	bartjol, maybe instead of putting wre.conf POD into lots of scripts, we should make one POD file for the whole wre.conf, and only document script options in each script?	17:59
+bartjol	I agree that the explanations might as well be in the conf	18:01
+bartjol	only, even with no options, you'll need a redirect from the POD of the script files	18:01
+perlDreamer	yes, we'll have to say something like	18:01
+perlDreamer	please see the BACKUP options part of wre.conf.pod	18:01
+bartjol	very large	18:02
+bartjol	that'd be ok	18:02
+perlDreamer	I'll pull the wre.conf stuff out of backup.pl, and start a wre.conf.pod file	18:02
+perlDreamer	then we can add to it pieces when needed	18:02
+bartjol	ah, that wre.conf file pod will be large :)	18:03
CIA-58	wrebuild: Colin Kuskie master * r9250085 / wre/sbin/backup.pl : Add baseline POD to backup.pl - http://bit.ly/dtZB6d	18:08
+perlDreamer	okay, POD added	18:08
CIA-58	wrebuild: Colin Kuskie master * r1f146da / wre/sbin/wre.conf.pod : Begin documenting the wre.conf file. - http://bit.ly/cClgyr	18:08
+bartjol	cool	18:10
* perlDreamer goes to the gym. I'll add the other files when I come back		18:15
+bartjol	oh well, I have to go too	18:16
+bartjol	I'll see the results, but don't overdo it	18:16
+perlDreamer	yes, sir!	18:16
-!- bartjol [~bartjol@kantoor.procolix.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]		18:16
CIA-58	wrebuild: Colin Kuskie master * r78edb05 / (wre/sbin/logrotate.pl wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl): Add POD to logrotate and wreconsole scripts. - http://bit.ly/bNevDR	19:46
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfb14f13 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm): Add labels to the Layout templates so they show up in Shortcut overrides. Fixes bug #11476. - http://bit.ly/cYdKzw	20:05
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r2465da4 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm): Add labels to the Layout templates so they show up in Shortcut overrides. Fixes bug #11476. - http://bit.ly/ddqrDa	20:05
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop master * r1919973 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm): fixed: Unable to add threads with permission to edit CS but not in post group - http://bit.ly/bafugN	20:21
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * r34967f7 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm): fixed: Unable to add threads with permission to edit CS but not in post group - http://bit.ly/9Sf1tT	20:21
+perlDreamer	nice find, haarg	20:28
@Haarg	i finally added a thing to wgdev for running across multiple sites	20:43
@Haarg	so if you had a package to install on every site, you can do wgd for-each --exec="wgd package -i ~/fix.wgpkg"	20:44
+perlDreamer	nice!	20:46
+perlDreamer	I really want to install wgd on the servers I have to maintain	20:46
+perlDreamer	at least for the ease of saying wgd db --config myConfig.conf	20:47
+perlDreamer	I hate having to find the db auth info in the config files	20:47
@Haarg	./Build distexec && scp wgd-v0.5.0 server:wgd	20:48
@Haarg	i usually end up sticking the single-file version on servers i'm working on	20:48
+perlDreamer	it's not the mechanics, it's the permissions issue	20:48
@Haarg	how so?	20:49
+perlDreamer	well, I just don't know whether or not I'm allowed to install software on the sites that I maintain	20:49
@Haarg	ah	20:49
@Haarg	well, that's why i just stick it leaving it in my home directory	20:50
+perlDreamer	that would work	20:50
+perlDreamer	did you get my reply about Paths?	20:51
@Haarg	i got a reply and responded	20:52
+perlDreamer	so for people who are not WRE users (and there seem to be more and more of these), they'd just need to setup PERL5LIB themselves	20:53
@Haarg	yes	20:53
+perlDreamer	in that case, I don't have any other questions or issues	20:53
+perlDreamer	just impatient to get it!	20:53
@Haarg	and the apache config would need to be adjusted somewhat	20:53
@Haarg	but it's basically just setting the perl include path	20:53
@Haarg	instead of setting the WebGUI root path	20:54
+perlDreamer	that's not bad. It should be in the migration instructions	20:54