| --- Log opened Mon Mar 01 00:00:51 2010 | ||
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| SDuensin_ | Greetings. | 16:31 |
|---|---|---|
| +bartjol | morning | 16:33 |
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| SDuensin_ | AH HA! Got rid of him! | 16:38 |
| -!- SDuensin_ is now known as SDuensin | 16:42 | |
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| -!- Diggy [~dyioulos@65.105.102.162.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #webgui | 17:26 | |
| Diggy | hi, folks. hope at least 1 webgui dev is here | 17:27 |
| SDuensin | Probably more like a dozen. | 17:27 |
| Diggy | Q - are there any plans to produce an up-to-date webgui VM? | 17:27 |
| Diggy | a dozen! yikes | 17:28 |
| Diggy | perhaps a VM for the 7.8 series? | 17:29 |
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| SDuensin | Hey perlDreamer! | 17:29 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, you are excused from all current, future and past comments about LOI | 17:29 |
| SDuensin | Diggy has a good question... | 17:29 |
| +perlDreamer | Diggy, what's your question this morning? | 17:30 |
| SDuensin | Any chance of the VM being updated for 7.8? | 17:30 |
| Diggy | about plans for an updated webgui VM | 17:30 |
| Diggy | last vm was done in early '09, IIRC | 17:30 |
| bartjol | perlDreamer: so no more info needed, too bad... | 17:30 |
| +perlDreamer | the VM can be updated manually by downloading the current one and running the webgui updater | 17:30 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, what's the red thing? | 17:31 |
| bartjol | an expension barrel for the heating | 17:31 |
| Diggy | unfortunately, my attempts at updating it have failed | 17:31 |
| SDuensin | Diggy - Oh? How so? | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | how are you updating it, Diggy? | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | and what errors do you get? | 17:31 |
| Diggy | with the wre. it's been a while since i last tried | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | you can only update via the WRE if you stay up to date with it | 17:32 |
| Diggy | again, apologies, as it's been a while since i tried to upgrade | 17:32 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise, you have to manually download and upgrade | 17:32 |
| +perlDreamer | it wouldn't hurt us to update that, though | 17:33 |
| SDuensin | You should be able to run the webguiupdate script and then the testEnvironment script. | 17:33 |
| +perlDreamer | SD, not really | 17:33 |
| SDuensin | No? | 17:33 |
| +perlDreamer | webguiupdate is not smart enough to stop at the right points | 17:33 |
| +perlDreamer | it downloads the latest and greatest and tries that | 17:33 |
| +perlDreamer | which will fail miserably | 17:33 |
| Diggy | i did use the script. IRC channel users helped me, but in the end, failure :-( | 17:33 |
| * SDuensin sighs | 17:33 | |
| +perlDreamer | so, if you start at 7.6.32 | 17:33 |
| +perlDreamer | you update to 7.6.35 | 17:33 |
| +perlDreamer | then 7.7.33 | 17:34 |
| +perlDreamer | then 7.8.13 | 17:34 |
| SDuensin | Glad I had this little talk prior to going to 7.8.x. :-) | 17:34 |
| bartjol | ah, scott, you need some other talks? | 17:34 |
| +perlDreamer | I wonder if the wiki has that little gem of info | 17:34 |
| +perlDreamer | there is an open bug to fix that | 17:34 |
| SDuensin | bartjol, I need all the help I can get. :-D | 17:35 |
| Diggy | are you recommending that i try that sequence? | 17:35 |
| +perlDreamer | Diggy, sure | 17:35 |
| +perlDreamer | also, Diggy, would you please file a bug about updating the VM? | 17:35 |
| Diggy | ok. will try (as soon as time permits :-) ), and report back | 17:36 |
| +perlDreamer | that will raise it to the attention of the proper people | 17:36 |
| Diggy | sure, i'll file a bug report | 17:36 |
| Diggy | thanks, and ttfn | 17:36 |
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| SDuensin | There's too many interesting cool package formats out there. I want WebGUI in all of them for people! | 17:37 |
| SDuensin | VMware appliance, OpenVZ template, that application standard thing - not to mention the usual DEB, RPM, etc. | 17:37 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, in the -930 picture, what are all those pipes for? | 17:42 |
| +perlDreamer | doesn't a sink have hot, cold, and drain, and that's it? | 17:42 |
| bartjol | eeeh, i'll have a look | 17:43 |
| bartjol | and then make fun of you | 17:44 |
| * perlDreamer braces for public humiliation | 17:44 | |
| bartjol | well, that's my heating thingy | 17:44 |
| +perlDreamer | so that's not the bottom of the sink | 17:45 |
| +perlDreamer | makes much more sense | 17:45 |
| bartjol | so it has to have piping for gas, cold water (in), warm water (out) heating in and out | 17:45 |
| bartjol | yeah | 17:45 |
| * perlDreamer will take the children to school, and ponder more | 17:45 | |
| bartjol | 955 is the sink | 17:45 |
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| +perlDreamer | bartjol: I knew that 955 was the sink, but 930 looks like it's from the same place, in the corner | 17:57 |
| bartjol | it is more just above 952 | 18:00 |
| bartjol | or better maybe: http://www.bartjol.nl/home/fotoalbums/fortos/klus20091116/dsc00678 | 18:01 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, yes | 18:06 |
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| +perlDreamer | we have one of those tankless water heaters, too | 18:12 |
| +perlDreamer | very efficient | 18:12 |
| SDuensin | Database design hurts my head. | 18:15 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r587f080 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Subscribable aspect should propagate result of purge, instead of always returning false. Fixes bug #11446 - http://bit.ly/97WdkX | 18:31 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb462ce0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Subscribable aspect should propagate result of purge, instead of always returning false. Fixes bug #11446 - http://bit.ly/bSzWKC | 18:31 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: ping | 18:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | patspam, you up for a dev level idea bouncing talk? | 18:45 |
| +patspam | shoot | 18:45 |
| +perlDreamer | it's the spectre bug | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | with the mail workflow | 18:46 |
| +patspam | got the number on hand? | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | two of them | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | this is the "latest" one: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11444 | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | and here's the historical one: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/10189 | 18:47 |
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| +patspam | yep, I've experienced that too | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, so this is my theory | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | Spectre recognizes that it's time to run the cron job | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | and calls www_runCronJob in Operation/Cron | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | www_runCronJob builds an instance of the workflow | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | and tries to talk to spectre | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | but it can't | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | the instance is NEVER cleaned up | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | so it sits in the db, blocking all further invocations, since it's a singleton workflow | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | the core problem seems to be that the return value of $instance->start(1) is not checked | 18:51 |
| +patspam | I've never really trawled through the spectre code, but that sounds reasonable | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll see if I can outfit a few sites with some test code, and then disable their spectre restart cron cobs | 18:53 |
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| +perlDreamer | if this is right, there's about 1 day of spectre relating hacking that needs to be done | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | since none of the spectre comm code returns a status | 19:00 |
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| +patspam | sorry, doing some bug triaging here too | 19:03 |
| +patspam | the kind where people report something, and then when you look everything appears perfectly fine | 19:04 |
| bartjol | but I thought Martin made spectre, how can there be errors? | 19:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought JT wrote spectre, and that Martin just named it | 19:05 |
| bartjol | mmm, that might be, explains a lot :) | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | ;) | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | patspam, I hate those kinds of bugs | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | we had one of those today | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | with deleting a wiki | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | if you delete a wiki and purge it, it works fine | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | but try deleting a page containing a wiki, and it's not | 19:06 |
| bartjol | but it's laundry time, I am even looking forward to it | 19:06 |
| +patspam | fun | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | martien, kimd, faxioman have definitely joined elnino in the bug reporting elite | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | they are thoughtful, detailed, and patient | 19:07 |
| +patspam | yeah that's awesome | 19:07 |
| +patspam | I wish my clients were like that | 19:07 |
| bartjol | actually testing, instead of getting back a year later with a mention that "it is all broken" | 19:08 |
| bartjol | that'd be nice | 19:08 |
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| @Haarg | perlDreamer, the getCache asset method can't be merged into webgui 8 directly. i was thinking of replacing it with a getViewCacheKey method. | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | why can't it be merged? | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | also, I thought getCache was a session method | 19:28 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc0d45e0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove workarounds in WeatherData. Fixes bug #11401. - http://bit.ly/drRnhH | 19:58 |
| @Haarg | it can't be merged because it returns a cache object with a specific key. but you don't construct a cache object per key anymore. | 20:00 |
| +perlDreamer | patspam: the TAP modules required by the Survey cannot be installed piecemeal, correct? You have to fully upgrade to Test::Harness 3.x | 20:01 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, it sounds like it can be removed, and replace by session->getCache | 20:02 |
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| * perlDreamer goes out for errands | 20:34 | |
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| +perlDreamer | well, at least the guts of Asset->getCache could be removed. | 21:40 |
| @Haarg | getting rid of the duplicate code is a good idea, it's just that the cache api is going to be very different. which is why i was thinking getViewCacheKey. | 21:42 |
| @Haarg | although it would be better if the cache api was finalized | 21:42 |
| @Haarg | we could have $asset->computeViewCache(sub { }, $timeout) | 21:43 |
| @Haarg | or something along those lines | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | anyway we can abstract that out, and keep it insultated from this change, and future changes, will help | 21:44 |
| @Haarg | does computeViewCache sound like a good idea? or would there be a better name for it? | 21:45 |
| @Haarg | or does getViewCacheKey sound like a better approach? | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | if it's returning a key, it should have that in the name | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | so I vote for getViewCacheKey | 21:46 |
| @Haarg | well, computeViewCache would be returning the cache data | 21:46 |
| @Haarg | or calling the sub if there was no cache data | 21:47 |
| @Haarg | and storing the return from the sub in the cache | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but in some view methods getCache is used to grab a cache object to stuff data into it | 21:48 |
| +perlDreamer | not just access what might (or might not) be there | 21:48 |
| @Haarg | i'm not sure i follow. that is exactly the case i am talking about. | 21:48 |
| @Haarg | with computeViewCache, it would first try to get the cache data and return it if it was available | 21:49 |
| @Haarg | if it wasn't, it would call the sub that was passed in to generate the needed output, then store that in the cache and return it | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, I missed the last part | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | and the method used to generate the needed output would not be $self->view, but $self->view minus the permission checks, cache code, etc. | 21:50 |
| @Haarg | yeah, basically | 21:51 |
| +perlDreamer | seems odd to push down one level like that. Almost like we could replace prepareView with that, or something | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg: how do I make a clone of the metaclass-roles branch to try and tinker with it? | 22:02 |
| @Haarg | do you have my repo as a remote? | 22:02 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 22:02 |
| +perlDreamer | but this: git checkout -b metaclass-roles --track haarg/metaclass-roles | 22:03 |
| +perlDreamer | does this: fatal: git checkout: updating paths is incompatible with switching branches | 22:03 |
| @Haarg | what about just git checkout -t haarg/metaclass-roles | 22:03 |
| @Haarg | ? | 22:03 |
| +perlDreamer | same thing | 22:04 |
| @Haarg | git --version | 22:04 |
| +perlDreamer | 1.6.3.3 | 22:04 |
| @Haarg | git remote update | 22:05 |
| +perlDreamer | updated, but the checkout still doesn't work | 22:06 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe I misconfigured the remote? | 22:06 |
| @Haarg | git branch -r | grep haarg | 22:06 |
| +perlDreamer | haarg/bart-i18n | 22:06 |
| @Haarg | git remote haarg | nopaste | 22:07 |
| +perlDreamer | http://gist.github.com/318755 | 22:08 |
| @Haarg | git fetch haarg | 22:09 |
| +perlDreamer | k | 22:09 |
| @Haarg | i'm really not sure why it isn't updating | 22:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll go running and see if maybe it's some github transient issue | 22:10 |
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| +perlDreamer | haarg, I figured it out | 23:55 |
| @Haarg | oh? | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | when I created the remote, I used the -t switch | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | it would only use the bart-i18n branch | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | so I dropped that remote and added a new one | 23:56 |
| @Haarg | ah | 23:56 |
| @Haarg | making an attempt at merging master into WebGUI8 | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | good luck | 23:58 |
| --- Day changed Tue Mar 02 2010 | ||
| +perlDreamer | mlri's server, server36 | 00:25 |
| +perlDreamer | every config file has that in it | 00:25 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: the ^StorageUrl(); macro can be given a storageId and will return a URL (for use in SQLReports and the like) | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | really?! | 00:37 |
| @preaction | yep | 00:37 |
| @preaction | it's even got some nice config options for various things | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | must be time for me to review all the macros again | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | what if there are multiple files in the storage location, though? | 00:40 |
| @preaction | it grabs the first one fsvo first | 00:41 |
| @preaction | perlbot fsvo | 00:42 |
| @preaction | perlbot fsvo is For Some Value Of | 00:42 |
| @preaction | perlbot botsnack | 00:42 |
| @preaction | perlbot fsvo | 00:42 |
| @preaction | ... wtf | 00:42 |
| @preaction | perlbot, fsvo | 00:42 |
| perlbot | preaction: For Some Value Of | 00:42 |
| @preaction | ah | 00:43 |
| +perlDreamer | the first one "asciibetically", according to the POD ;) | 00:44 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reea83d5 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix macro issues, missing FilePump, HASH entry. Fixes bug #11449. - http://bit.ly/9TSsZJ | 01:02 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r9256928 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix macro issues, missing FilePump, HASH entry. Fixes bug #11449. - http://bit.ly/dmMdVC | 01:04 |
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| * perlDreamer has to go pick up the kids from school, back in 30 | 01:17 | |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg: http://gist.github.com/318965 | 02:07 |
| +perlDreamer | it's almost like we have different versions of Moose installed | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | those subs don't exist, and the options have different names | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | this one's cleaner, and has more option corrections http://gist.github.com/318976 | 02:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I love the Moose stack trace, but it would be so much nicer if the reference were pretty printed | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg: this patch gets all the way down into the Shortcut asset, then dies due to a missing fieldType in a property http://gist.github.com/318994 | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | the fieldType is defined in the property, and it's the first one called so it seems like someplace the fieldType is getting lost | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I think the problem is Definition::Meta::Class, _build_property_metaclass | 03:11 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not setting the property metaclass correctly | 03:11 |
| +perlDreamer | this causes everything to be stuck inside form | 03:11 |
| +perlDreamer | and not get to the property, which then complains about not getting a fieldType | 03:11 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, I got it! | 03:28 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll paste a patch after dinner | 03:28 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg: http://gist.github.com/319042 | 04:02 |
| +perlDreamer | the last piece was, inside add_property, it was calling $prop_meta->meta | 04:02 |
| @Haarg | where are you seeing the for vs for_class change needed? | 04:02 |
| +perlDreamer | in the calls to the Utility methods | 04:02 |
| +perlDreamer | it's in the patch | 04:03 |
| @Haarg | looks like it should just be for given the Moose::Util::MetaRole docs | 04:03 |
| @Haarg | what version of Moose do you have installed? | 04:04 |
| +perlDreamer | 0.93 | 04:04 |
| @Haarg | i have 0.98 | 04:04 |
| +perlDreamer | let's change testEnvironment.pl, and I'll upgrade to your version | 04:05 |
| +perlDreamer | with that change, the only change needed should be removing the inherited is from Meta::Property::Asset | 04:06 |
| +perlDreamer | and the $prop_meta->meta thing | 04:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I wonder if that's going to happen everywhere the sub names were different | 04:08 |
| +perlDreamer | and option names | 04:08 |
| @Haarg | option names? | 04:08 |
| +perlDreamer | metaclass_roles vs class_metaroles | 04:09 |
| @Haarg | http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Moose-0.98/lib/Moose/Util/MetaRole.pm | 04:09 |
| +perlDreamer | we're going to have to watch Moose very carefully | 04:10 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, now I'm getting exactly what you said earlier | 04:18 |
| +perlDreamer | the property meta isn't being set correctly for Assets | 04:18 |
| @Haarg | what happens with your full patch applied but the new moose version? | 04:18 |
| +perlDreamer | don't know | 04:20 |
| +perlDreamer | massive chaos, since the sub names and options are all from the earlier version | 04:20 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what I would guess | 04:20 |
| @Haarg | the earlier stuff all still works | 04:21 |
| @Haarg | i'm trying to finish up this section of the merge i'm working on so i can test stuff out. | 04:21 |
| @Haarg | perlDreamer, i applied your patch and it fails with the tableName problem | 04:42 |
| +perlDreamer | that's running t/Definition/Asset.t | 05:02 |
| @Haarg | yes | 05:03 |
| +perlDreamer | Definition's init_meta gets called after Definition:Asset's init_meta | 05:06 |
| +perlDreamer | unless that's a testing artifact | 05:07 |
| @Haarg | Definition::Asset->init_meta calls Definition->init_meta | 05:08 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but it's getting called a 2nd time somehow | 05:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and when it gets called the 2nd time, it's overwriting the applied classes, removing the ones set up by WebGUI::Definition::Asset | 05:13 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI::Definition is a role | 05:29 |
| +perlDreamer | and it's used by Definition::Asset; | 05:30 |
| +perlDreamer | I think it's applying the init_meta to every class that uses Definition::Asset | 05:30 |
| +perlDreamer | so that it gets called | 05:30 |
| +perlDreamer | so it calls Definition::Asset, which calls Definition and then does it's specific configuration | 05:30 |
| +perlDreamer | then it calls Definition's init_meta again, and that overwrites the base role and metaroles | 05:31 |
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| elnino | hi! | 05:52 |
| elnino | when you put in multiple anchors in an article, is there a GUI way to link to it from another article? | 05:53 |
| elnino | does that make sense? | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | it does, but there's no GUI way to link to any of them | 05:55 |
| +perlDreamer | not that I know of | 05:55 |
| elnino | ok. I didn't think so, but thought I'd ask anyway | 05:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, the second call to WebGUI::Definition->init_meta is being provided by Moose::Exporter | 08:08 |
| +perlDreamer | it's like it's calling init_meta up the stack | 08:08 |
| +perlDreamer | using linearized_isa | 08:08 |
| @Haarg | well, it can't be that because there is no inheritance | 08:09 |
| @Haarg | it's probably the 'with' | 08:09 |
| @Haarg | sorry, 'also' | 08:10 |
| +perlDreamer | removing also removes the sugar | 08:13 |
| +perlDreamer | what I don't get is that we have an init_meta inside WG::D::A | 08:13 |
| +perlDreamer | so why do we get 2? | 08:13 |
| +perlDreamer | it's there because it's a role | 08:33 |
| @Haarg | because what is a role? | 08:33 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI::Definition | 08:34 |
| @Haarg | not realy | 08:34 |
| +perlDreamer | with no inheritance, how else could there be two of them? | 08:34 |
| @Haarg | two of what? | 08:34 |
| +perlDreamer | init_meta methods | 08:35 |
| @Haarg | WebGUI::Definition's gets called because of the 'also' | 08:36 |
| @Haarg | and because we explicitly call it | 08:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm shot | 08:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm going to call it a night. | 08:41 |
| @Haarg | i've been confusing myself some | 08:41 |
| @Haarg | paying attention to how the role is applied to the metaclass | 08:42 |
| @Haarg | forgetting that it's the propery metaclass that is the problem | 08:42 |
| +perlDreamer | that's okay, I'm still confused with how you get 2 init_meta methods in 1 package's namespace, without using inheritance | 08:43 |
| @Haarg | in one package namespace? | 08:43 |
| @Haarg | they don't get exported to the class they are used in | 08:43 |
| @Haarg | they are called by import | 08:43 |
| @Haarg | ok | 08:44 |
| +perlDreamer | so it does keep track of the classes, and calls init_meta in each one | 08:45 |
| @Haarg | i changed some other things and was getting the same failures | 08:45 |
| @Haarg | remove the + from has 'property_metaroles' and everything works | 08:45 |
| @Haarg | (almost) | 08:45 |
| @Haarg | not really deep tracking | 08:45 |
| @Haarg | WebGUI::Definition::Asset has also => 'WebGUI::Definition' | 08:46 |
| @Haarg | so when WebGUI::Definition::import gets called | 08:46 |
| @Haarg | it calls the generated $import method | 08:46 |
| +perlDreamer | what other changes do you have, that aren't committed | 08:46 |
| +perlDreamer | if I remove the +, I get missing fieldType warnings | 08:46 |
| @Haarg | which calls init_meta in WebGUI::Definition::Asset because it is defined there, and init_meta in WebGUI::Definition because of the also | 08:47 |
| @Haarg | i'm going to try to minimize the changes | 08:47 |
| @Haarg | pushed my changes | 08:50 |
| +perlDreamer | only 1 failing test | 08:52 |
| +perlDreamer | way better than before | 08:52 |
| @Haarg | yeah | 08:53 |
| @Haarg | that one is likely something i broke when making changes | 08:53 |
| @Haarg | some places where it was doing ->isa and i had to do the checks different because ->does and ->does_role weren't working right | 08:54 |
| @Haarg | they only work on Moose classes and it seems like some of the metaclasses end up getting created as Class::MOP classes | 08:54 |
| @Haarg | and don't have the extra tracking for roles | 08:54 |
| +perlDreamer | is that due to the anonymous classes that are created? | 08:56 |
| @Haarg | something like that | 08:56 |
| @Haarg | if you have a Moose class and apply a role to it that stuff is tracked, but it seems like some of the metaclasses don't. | 08:57 |
| +perlDreamer | you think it's a bug? | 08:57 |
| @Haarg | i'm not really familiar with cmp_deeply, but it will need to do a different type of check than an isa | 08:57 |
| @Haarg | i have no idea | 08:57 |
| @Haarg | also, i don't really love the _property_metaclass thing i have in there, but it worked so i left it | 08:59 |
| +perlDreamer | we'll have to build something for cmp_deeply, it only provides an isa method by default | 09:04 |
| +perlDreamer | but we should be able to construct something that does ->can fairly easily | 09:04 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:38 |
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| +bartjol | hi | 16:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | bartjol: definitely | 17:03 |
| +bartjol | ah, bien | 17:05 |
| +bartjol | because I suppose, my part fixes the part of getting the correct language and the replacement of the files the other stuff | 17:06 |
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| +bartjol | perlDreamer: my fix works, but might it not be better to create the i18n object, which should be able to provide the abbreviation? | 17:09 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, that would probably be better | 17:10 |
| +perlDreamer | do you want to alter your patch to do that? | 17:10 |
| +bartjol | yes | 17:12 |
| +bartjol | I was going to that, but Koen interrupted me by telephone :) | 17:13 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what you get for giving him your phone number | 17:16 |
| +bartjol | well, it was the number of procolix | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | well, it can be very short: | 17:23 |
| +bartjol | my $sessionLanguage = $i18n->{_language}; | 17:24 |
| +bartjol | my $language = $i18n->getLanguage($sessionLanguage,"languageAbbreviation"); | 17:24 |
| +bartjol | the i18n object is already created before :) | 17:24 |
| +bartjol | useless to copy that code from sub new in international.pm | 17:24 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a way to get ->{_language} through the object, too, yes? | 17:25 |
| +bartjol | well, the line I posted | 17:25 |
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| +bartjol | you can skip the first line and replace $sessionLanguage in the second line by $i18n->{_language} | 17:26 |
| +bartjol | that's the shortest | 17:26 |
| +bartjol | and | 17:26 |
| +bartjol | the lines with the unless ($language} are obsolete I believe | 17:27 |
| +bartjol | new defaults to english I believe | 17:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I mean, there must be a way through the API to get $i18n->{_language} without peeking inside the object | 17:27 |
| +bartjol | oh, you mean like a real get method | 17:27 |
| +bartjol | not sure, I was trying to find that | 17:28 |
| +perlDreamer | there isn't | 17:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I see | 17:29 |
| +bartjol | ah, and I was wrong about new | 17:29 |
| +perlDreamer | we don't need to pass the language in | 17:29 |
| +bartjol | we need the abbreviation | 17:30 |
| +perlDreamer | $language = $i18n->get('', 'languageAbbreviation'); | 17:30 |
| +bartjol | oh | 17:30 |
| +bartjol | sure | 17:30 |
| +bartjol | indeed | 17:30 |
| +perlDreamer | which means the language should be the 2nd argument | 17:30 |
| +bartjol | mmm, maybe there are other circumstances where the 1st is better | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | there shouldn't be, the property name is required, and the language is optional | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | hash based would work okay, too | 17:31 |
| +bartjol | well | 17:31 |
| +bartjol | I can't really overview the complications | 17:32 |
| +bartjol | my $language = $i18n->getLanguage($i18n->{_language},"languageAbbreviation"); looks nice and readable to me though | 17:33 |
| +bartjol | and it works | 17:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I think the unless code is there to handle broken language packs, without making the rich editor crash | 17:36 |
| +bartjol | and spanish isn't my best alnguage | 17:36 |
| +perlDreamer | no, it doesn't have any TinyMCE translations | 17:37 |
| +bartjol | the default stuff is there | 17:37 |
| +bartjol | but not webgui plugin stuff | 17:38 |
| +bartjol | but, are we gonna renew all getLanguage calls? | 17:39 |
| +perlDreamer | renew? | 17:39 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbeb1337 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/RichEdit.pm): Make the RichEditor obey the new session overrides for language settings. Fixes bug #11443. - http://bit.ly/d2uvmd | 17:40 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r85dd7cc / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/RichEdit.pm): Make the RichEditor obey the new session overrides for language settings. Fixes bug #11443. - http://bit.ly/8YBGSn | 17:40 |
| +bartjol | if you wanna swap language and the translation ID | 17:40 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, no. That would have to happen in WebGUI 8 | 17:41 |
| +perlDreamer | and for all I know Haarg has plans to completely change that | 17:41 |
| +bartjol | yeah, well, I grepped throuh the code, it's only about 10 entries | 17:42 |
| +bartjol | but still | 17:42 |
| +bartjol | ok | 17:42 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, we could fix the core, but completely break all the custom code out there | 17:42 |
| +perlDreamer | which, might help with budgets in the future, but would not make customers happy | 17:43 |
| +bartjol | customers? since when are those important? | 17:43 |
| +bartjol | well that seems fixed in my site | 17:45 |
| +perlDreamer | I went with '' instead of $i18n->{_language} | 17:45 |
| +bartjol | and less code in total | 17:45 |
| +bartjol | I saw it in git | 17:45 |
| +perlDreamer | time to take the kiddos to school | 17:45 |
| +bartjol | have fun | 17:45 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, kids are taken care of | 18:02 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol is happy | 18:02 |
| +perlDreamer | time to work with rogier | 18:02 |
| +bartjol | but, any specific reason to let out the $i18n->{_language} ? because it is shorter or quicker? | 18:03 |
| +bartjol | just interested | 18:03 |
| +bartjol | it is not better readable | 18:03 |
| +bartjol | sorry for reopening :) | 18:03 |
| +perlDreamer | it breaks object encapsulation, and isn't needed | 18:04 |
| +perlDreamer | it's better to use the bad API design than to peek inside the object like that | 18:04 |
| +bartjol | I believe you | 18:04 |
| +bartjol | not sure why yet | 18:04 |
| +bartjol | it is only looking | 18:05 |
| +bartjol | it's a matter of not being best practises I suppose | 18:06 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 18:07 |
| +perlDreamer | peeking inside objects (when not needed) is bad | 18:07 |
| +perlDreamer | because if the object changes, your peeking may break | 18:07 |
| +perlDreamer | and then you have to hunt all through the code base to find the breakage | 18:08 |
| +perlDreamer | because we don't have enough tests to cover all the code | 18:08 |
| +bartjol | doesn't rogier's bug solution also indicated that or used tempalted can't be deleted, or automatical setting change at removal | 18:08 |
| +bartjol | ah, ok | 18:08 |
| +perlDreamer | there should be a fallback for "critical" operations | 18:08 |
| +perlDreamer | so that users don't break their sites badly | 18:09 |
| +perlDreamer | so we fix the login templates, but create account and the others will just stay broken | 18:09 |
| +perlDreamer | since you could login and fix those | 18:09 |
| +bartjol | yeah | 18:10 |
| +bartjol | just a way of preventing people like rogier to lock themselves out | 18:10 |
| +bartjol | :) | 18:10 |
| +bartjol | I suppose I'm one of them cruel sysadmins | 18:10 |
| +bartjol | time to go | 18:12 |
| +bartjol | thanks for the explanation perlDreamer | 18:12 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rc31110d / (4 files in 3 dirs): Try to fallback to a default login template if the configured one won't work. Fixes bug #11450. - http://bit.ly/9Ucgvs | 18:51 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r119d513 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Try to fallback to a default login template if the configured one won't work. Fixes bug #11450. - http://bit.ly/9zFOpo | 18:52 |
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| dionak | Hi all | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | hey, dionak! | 19:05 |
| dionak | how are things in WG land? | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | not too bad | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | we just released 7.8-stable | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI 8 work continues on | 19:06 |
| dionak | yes, i noticed that. congrads! | 19:06 |
| dionak | speaking of upgrades & releases. Quick upgrade question. I'm upgrade a site from 7.5.40 to 7.7.20. I'm following what I think is the prescribed upgrade path. 7.5.40->7.6.35->7.7.20. Did I miss any step? | 19:07 |
| dionak | i'm getting the following error: Adding comments asset aspect...DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'assetAspectComments' already exists | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | how many times did you go through the upgrade? | 19:07 |
| dionak | a couple now. i've restored the database and the lib & doc files when starting over | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | at which step in the upgrade does that happen? | 19:08 |
| dionak | copied a fresh version from production (7.5.40) | 19:08 |
| dionak | hrspotlight_com 7.5.40-7.6.10 | 19:08 |
| dionak | the script makes several db alters before failing on this one | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | in the 7.5.40, does the assetAspectsComments table exist in the 7.5.40 database? | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | the other thing that can happen is that when restoring the database, it has to be dropped. | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | because importing the backup will not delete the newly created tables | 19:10 |
| dionak | ah, that's the issue. | 19:10 |
| dionak | thanks. i'll make a note | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | we should stick that in the wiki somewhere | 19:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, spent most of the morning doing core bug fixing | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll have a go at the wg8 tests when I come back from the gym | 19:17 |
| @Haarg | cool | 19:18 |
| @Haarg | the good part of that test failure in the roles stuff is that it is only a rest failure and the code itself is working afaik | 19:18 |
| dionak | i stuck that note in a wiki entry. thanks for the pointer perlDreamer | 19:20 |
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| dionak | another question. while running the upgrade from 7.6.35-7.7.17 I get: Reverting use packed... Invalid asset id 'pGyXTw9lAizHICubVyYqEQ' requested! at upgrade_7.6.35-7.7.17.pl line 1448 | 19:50 |
| dionak | Is there a utility tool anywhere to check the validity of assetIds? | 19:50 |
| dionak | or method? | 20:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | dionak, we need a tool like that | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | it should be a Cron job that runs weekly and alerts admins to broken assets in their sites | 20:41 |
| +perlDreamer | that way, they can fix them _before_ doing upgrades | 20:41 |
| dionak | yea, that would be handy. i'll keep that in mind | 20:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, it would be nice if the classes were sane, but I agree that it's better that they're functional then pretty :) | 20:59 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg: here's the test patch-> http://gist.github.com/319799 | 21:02 |
| +perlDreamer | after this, can we merge and start role hackery? | 21:03 |
| ckotil | where are you using roles? | 21:05 |
| @preaction | the old AssetAspects are becoming Moose::Roles | 21:06 |
| ckotil | ah. ive never heard of either :) | 21:06 |
| +perlDreamer | AssetAspects provide things like RssFeeds | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | Installability | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | Subscribability | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | etc. | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | in WebGUI8, they do all that, and more | 21:07 |
| @preaction | reusable bits of asset functionality | 21:07 |
| ckotil | ah cool | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: what's involved in update the VM for WebGUI? | 21:25 |
| @preaction | i don't know, never made one | 21:26 |
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| @preaction | perlDreamer: my real solution to that login template problem is to put the default webGUI templates on the filesystem, so that they simply cannot be edited OR deleted | 22:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | we could just lock them down in the database so they can't be deleted through the UI | 22:55 |
| @preaction | yeah, but still annoying to edit default templates and no way to patch / track | 22:55 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, in 7.9 I'm planning on adding testHarness 3.17 to testEnvironment.pl. Any issues, concerns, worries, directives or comments? | 23:52 |
| @preaction | as an optional install correct? | 23:52 |
| +perlDreamer | parts of the Survey won't work without it | 23:53 |
| @preaction | okay, go ahead | 23:53 |
| @preaction | if it's necessary for normal operation it's required, if it's only necessary for testing, it's optional | 23:53 |
| @preaction | that should be true for all our requirements | 23:53 |
| +perlDreamer | well, in that case | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | it's used for testing the Survey, from inside the Survey | 23:54 |
| @preaction | right, but it's an end-user utility | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | instead of t/test.t | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | got it | 23:54 |
| @preaction | we've got five types of users: Devs, Admins, Designers, Content Managers, and Visitors. only Devs are concerned about the unit tests, and only devs will take the time to learn how to install the optional components | 23:56 |
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| @preaction | we should just Do The Right Thing when it comes to Admins, Designers, Content Managers, and Visitors | 23:56 |
| @preaction | Admins should never have to concern themselves with Dev problems, Designers with Admin problems, Content Managers with Designer problems, etc.. | 23:56 |
| * preaction should draw up a UI guideline document someday | 23:57 | |
| +perlDreamer | definitely | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | documentation is good | 23:57 |
| @preaction | we'd be able to simplify the UI if we specified the rules under which certain things should happen | 23:57 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8128f54 / (4 files in 4 dirs): WebGUI now needs Test::Harness 3.17 or higher for the Survey. Fixes bug #11402. - http://bit.ly/aPGJYt | 23:59 |
| @preaction | wait, is that really a bug? | 23:59 |
| @preaction | if it's a bug, we can add the additional requirements to the 7.8 series | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | it was supposed to go into 7.8, but was added late | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Wed Mar 03 2010 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | so the change was backed out, with the condition it could go into 7.9 | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | so not really a bug | 00:00 |
| @preaction | ahh | 00:00 |
| @preaction | ok | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | but I didn't want to forget it, so I posted a bug about it | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I did something similar with WeatherData | 00:00 |
| @preaction | yeah, that's no problem. just making sure | 00:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | speaking of the man himself! | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | yo, patspam | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | Did you detect a disturbance in the Survey? | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | I need to go pick up the kids from school | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | bbl | 00:04 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r13b7538 / (5 files in 4 dirs): start of conversion to metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/abUtee | 01:35 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra2f0cbe / (6 files in 3 dirs): fix more things for metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/aByuWi | 01:35 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r12fcdf2 / (6 files in 5 dirs): almost working using metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/bSq7DV | 01:35 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra5f54a7 / (4 files in 3 dirs): mostly working definition roles - http://bit.ly/9m9rC4 | 01:35 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, the tests work, but Asset.pm is not in good shape | 01:54 |
| @Haarg | what kind of problems are you running into? | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | around blocks, and mixing property and has | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | http://gist.github.com/320132 | 01:56 |
| @Haarg | when are you getting that? | 01:57 |
| @Haarg | i just updated WebGUI8 and i'm not getting errors like that | 01:58 |
| @Haarg | perl -Ilib -mWebGUI::Asset -wce1 works fine | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | that's perl -wc -I /data/WebGUI/lib Asset.pm | 01:59 |
| @Haarg | re-including the same file is what is messing it up | 02:00 |
| @Haarg | does that normally work for you? or does it normally work but with errors? | 02:01 |
| @Haarg | err | 02:01 |
| @Haarg | but with warnings | 02:01 |
| +perlDreamer | it normally works, with no syntax errors, sometimes I get warnings about subroutines being redefined | 02:01 |
| +perlDreamer | but all the Asset modules include one another incestuously | 02:01 |
| @Haarg | yeah, but that is fine | 02:01 |
| @Haarg | the problem is that you are giving it just the file | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll rewrite my vim bindkeys | 02:02 |
| @Haarg | so it goes through Asset.pm, which includes WebGUI::AssetLineage, which includes WebGUI::Asset, which perl doesn't know it loaded already | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | how do I use the new/improved Definition to build a role now? | 02:03 |
| @Haarg | that's a good question. | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | you mean the goal of doing this wasn't to make making roles possible? | 02:06 |
| @Haarg | it was | 02:06 |
| @Haarg | it's just not complete yet | 02:06 |
| @Haarg | the first problem is that it tries to apply WebGUI::Definition::Role::Asset to the role class | 02:10 |
| @Haarg | http://gist.github.com/320151 not perfect but at least gets RssFeed compiling | 02:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | what causes the metaclass of RssFeed to be different? | 02:24 |
| @Haarg | it is a role | 02:24 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, use Moose::Role | 02:24 |
| @Haarg | i can't get Asset::Wobject to load right now | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | is that because it uses extends? | 02:25 |
| @Haarg | possibly | 02:25 |
| @Haarg | is something broken with extends? | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | can't use extends with roles | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | I think | 02:26 |
| @Haarg | oh. you can't use them in roles | 02:26 |
| @Haarg | but you can still have inheritance with your non-role classes | 02:26 |
| @Haarg | asset itself works | 02:27 |
| @Haarg | but all subclasses are borken | 02:27 |
| @Haarg | man that's a seriously screwed up error | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | could you commit the gist patch? | 02:30 |
| @Haarg | yeah. i want to clean that up eventually but it's a good enough start. | 02:30 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r38e2e09 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): apply correct roles/metaroles to roles - http://bit.ly/c6UmhX | 02:31 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks :) | 02:32 |
| +perlDreamer | wait a sec | 02:33 |
| +perlDreamer | the thing with extends should only fail if Asset.pm is a Role | 02:33 |
| +perlDreamer | which it isn't | 02:33 |
| @Haarg | exactly | 02:33 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rd932543 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject.pm : clean up Wobject includes - http://bit.ly/cJN2Pt | 02:35 |
| +perlDreamer | when you say it won't load, what does that mean? | 02:35 |
| @Haarg | Asset::Wobject (or any other Asset subclass) fails to compile | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | perl -I/data/WebGUI/lib -mWebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Article -wce1 | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | like that? | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Article compiles for me | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | and until the most recent commit, Wobject compiled okay for me too | 02:37 |
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| doc777 | I seem to have gotten 2 sites that have "cross linked" themselves. Each seems to be looking for files in the "other" domains folder and cannot find them. using the latest wre. Any clues as to what I have done wrong? | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | check the config files | 02:45 |
| +perlDreamer | uploadsPath | 02:45 |
| doc777 | ok, thanks :o) | 02:45 |
| doc777 | uploadsURL is /uploads should that be something else? The uploads path looks correct. But site A looks for files in site B dir according to modproxy-error. | 02:48 |
| +perlDreamer | uploadsURL can be anything | 02:49 |
| @preaction | DocumentRoot in the modproxy files? | 02:50 |
| * perlDreamer takes the kids to piano lessons. I should be back online at 6pm or so | 02:52 | |
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| doc777 | They seem correct. Everything was fine on site A, then I added site B and suddenly noticed site A was wrecked. Checking the log file show that site A is looking at site Bs upload folder. | 02:53 |
| doc777 | I think it is this: RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://127.0.0.1:8081/$1 | 02:55 |
| @preaction | oh, old WRE | 03:06 |
| @preaction | you need ProxyPreserveHost On | 03:06 |
| doc777 | Ah, let me check that out :) | 03:09 |
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| * patspam emerges from under a rock | 05:06 | |
| @preaction | yay! | 05:06 |
| @preaction | how was it? | 05:06 |
| +patspam | cosy :) | 05:06 |
| +patspam | I installed linux based firmware (dd-wrt) on my router today, yay! | 05:07 |
| +perlDreamer | patspam: no more TAP hacks in Survey | 05:07 |
| +patspam | tell me more | 05:07 |
| +perlDreamer | well, we have WebGUI 7.9 now, so I made Test::Harness 3.x a requirement | 05:10 |
| +perlDreamer | so no more eval { require TAP::MOD } or show_error_message; | 05:11 |
| +patspam | sweet! | 05:12 |
| +patspam | dang, I just transcoded a dvd of old family footage and the resulting avi file was bigger than the original vob files | 05:13 |
| +perlDreamer | oy | 05:17 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r644b74c / docs/create.sql : Ready for 7.8.14 release. - http://bit.ly/by7wyx | 07:09 |
| +perlDreamer | all done | 07:37 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rca0d7cc / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.15 development. - http://bit.ly/b5rt3E | 07:37 |
| -!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.7.33-stable | 7.8.14-stable | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com | 07:41 | |
| +perlDreamer | thanks, Radix_ | 07:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | bartjol, you are internationally happy today? | 17:03 |
| +bartjol | eeeh, hevan't looked yet | 17:06 |
| +bartjol | oh, I did | 17:06 |
| +bartjol | but only at the macro | 17:06 |
| +bartjol | and I had all stuff installed already | 17:06 |
| +bartjol | richedit is great too | 17:07 |
| +bartjol | and i18n still at 100% | 17:10 |
| SDuensin | Hey gang. Does the new 7.8.14 upgrade correctly? | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | mine did | 17:18 |
| SDuensin | I know it had missing packages or something last time, so I waited. | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | haven't found any yet | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | but I installed them with the script | 17:19 |
| +bartjol | so that is not complete certainty | 17:19 |
| +bartjol | i.e: I took another route | 17:19 |
| SDuensin | I'll quit asking you then. :-P | 17:20 |
| SDuensin | I fear upgrades enough as it is. | 17:20 |
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| +bartjol | but what you can do | 17:22 |
| +bartjol | to copy my path | 17:22 |
| +bartjol | is upgrade to 7.8.13, run the packages script and then upgrade to 7.8.14 | 17:23 |
| +bartjol | SDuensin: just as easy :) | 17:23 |
| SDuensin | True. | 17:24 |
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| +bartjol | and don't follow rogiers directions on login templates | 17:25 |
| +perlDreamer | 7.8.14 is all fixed up | 17:27 |
| +perlDreamer | the missing templates are added back in | 17:28 |
| +perlDreamer | and yeah, don't let rogier muck with your login templates | 17:28 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise bartjol the mean admin will laugh at you | 17:28 |
| +bartjol | I know, but I just didn't test it the "normal" way | 17:28 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, do you have the screen program installed on your servers? | 17:29 |
| +bartjol | oh, yeah, you asked silly questions, let me ponder on how to lay my wrath opun you | 17:29 |
| SDuensin | perlDreamer - So pop to the latest 7.7.x and then on up? | 17:29 |
| +bartjol | bart@host116~> which screen | 17:29 |
| +bartjol | /usr/bin/screen | 17:29 |
| +bartjol | I do apparently | 17:29 |
| SDuensin | SCREEN! | 17:29 |
| * SDuensin loves that program. | 17:30 | |
| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, what version are you on now? | 17:30 |
| SDuensin | Uh. Looking. | 17:30 |
| +bartjol | but maybe not all | 17:31 |
| SDuensin | 7.7.32 | 17:31 |
| +bartjol | today is a day of dumb people asking questions | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | so, upgrade to 7.7.33 | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | then go to 7.8.13 | 17:31 |
| +bartjol | bbiam | 17:31 |
| SDuensin | 7.8.13? | 17:32 |
| +perlDreamer | 7.8.13 | 17:34 |
| +perlDreamer | well,7.8.14 | 17:34 |
| +perlDreamer | but the upgrade path is 7.7.x to 7.7.33 to 7.8.13 to 7.8.14 | 17:34 |
| SDuensin | Ok. Didn't know there was a stop at 13. | 17:34 |
| +perlDreamer | there's not a stop, but instead of going from 7.7.33 to 7.8.0, it will shunt you up to 7.8.13 | 17:36 |
| SDuensin | ok. | 17:38 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r53d63bc / (docs/create.sql docs/previousVersion.sql): Fix SQL scripts for the next beta release. - http://bit.ly/aCFPNU | 18:23 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, why does WebGUI::Definition::Meta::Class need to install the properties into a new anonymous class? | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | and oose.pm is just evil | 19:18 |
| @Haarg | it needs to have an instance of the attribute metaclass to check for which sub-attributes to stick in 'form' | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | so, before the recent set of patches, Moose was building one for us? | 19:30 |
| @Haarg | we weren't using a role but specifying a class. so there was no need to construct the class, we already had it. | 19:38 |
| +perlDreamer | would it be easier to duplicate the Definition code in another class that is the base class for Roles, instead of trying to build a dual purpose solution? | 19:43 |
| @Haarg | possibly | 19:44 |
| @Haarg | having the if condition i added in seems to work for that part though. | 19:45 |
| +perlDreamer | sure. I was just thinking about the Asset subclasses not being able to load the anonymous meta classes | 19:47 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r122bd26 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset.t): Add keywords accessor for looking up Asset keywords. - http://bit.ly/deCsLs | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, did you try using any of the Asset subclasses, or just syntax check them? | 21:06 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0a0b655 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Eval and error handling for processTemplate. - http://bit.ly/dn2zKg | 21:10 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r44c6048 / t/Asset/Wobject/Shelf.t : Update test for exception handling. - http://bit.ly/a48MoX | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I just realized I've been running wobject tests for the last 20 minutes | 21:10 |
| @Haarg | looks like maybe i'm only getting warnings | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I saw the same thing, and figured they were errors | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | shelf works, btw | 21:11 |
| @Haarg | very strange warnings though | 21:12 |
| @Haarg | and if i try to load WebGUI::Asset::File i get a warning | 21:12 |
| @Haarg | but if i try to load WebGUI::Asset::File::Image i don't | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | I see that, too | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | ZipArchive has warnings | 21:14 |
| @Haarg | what i'm wondering is why Asset is getting an anonymous superclass | 21:39 |
| * perlDreamer quotes Bart Simpson, "I didn't do it!" | 21:41 | |
| +perlDreamer | shouldn't the anonymous superclass be the class for the role that is added? | 21:41 |
| @Haarg | i guess | 21:43 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rd7b0d93 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): Apply Definition roles properly to eliminate warnings - http://bit.ly/8Y0ouh | 21:49 |
| @Haarg | Collaboration is compiling with RssFeed as a role. haven't tried to do any testing though. | 21:50 |
| +perlDreamer | testing I can do | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | brilliant API design and implementation I leave to my betters | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | however, right now I'm leaving my betters to go running | 21:52 |
| @Haarg | 'brilliant' may be stretching it a bit. at this point i'm hoping i haven't invented something too complex. | 21:53 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb4a790a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/fileImport.pl): Fix handling filenames with space with overwrite=1 in fileImport.pl. Fixes bug #11453 - http://bit.ly/dxU23B | 23:28 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r446403c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/fileImport.pl): Fix handling filenames with space with overwrite=1 in fileImport.pl. Fixes bug #11453 - http://bit.ly/9bMUUN | 23:28 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg: the role seems to be adopting the table of the consumer | 23:30 |
| +perlDreamer | but that may be an artifact of the way I wrote write | 23:31 |
| +perlDreamer | http://gist.github.com/321054 | 23:32 |
| kimd | preaction, do you have time for a quick JS question? | 23:52 |
| kimd | How can access the id of an element? | 23:52 |
| kimd | el.id doesn't work. | 23:52 |
| kimd | Or does someone else know? | 23:54 |
| --- Day changed Thu Mar 04 2010 | ||
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| @Haarg | perlDreamer, probably because of the way the get_all_tables method works | 00:04 |
| kimd | Ok, I got it. No need to answer. | 00:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, it's both | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | since roles inject themselves into the class | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | inspecting the class metas is flawed | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I think someone mentioned that to me at one point | 00:27 |
| @preaction | version tags serve two purposes: staging content and history/rollback, correct? | 00:39 |
| @preaction | for the most part, users don't want staging content unless they actually know they want it, then they could take an extra step or two to create a "stage" | 00:40 |
| @preaction | and history/rollback can be done without staging content | 00:41 |
| @preaction | three purposes: approval | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | approval is a side effect of staging | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | and has little to do with the tags themselves | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | at least, that's the way that version tags are built today | 00:43 |
| @preaction | right | 00:43 |
| @preaction | i'm just thinking that websites keep evolving, everybody wants to add content and admins want that content added in a structured way | 00:45 |
| @preaction | and if we could do it all again... what would we do? | 00:46 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg has this idea about versions versus revisions | 00:47 |
| +perlDreamer | right now an asset can contain both | 00:47 |
| +perlDreamer | well, not really versions versus revisions, but versioned and non-versioned data | 00:47 |
| +perlDreamer | and that you should be able to access them independently | 00:47 |
| @preaction | well, in a DBIC world there'd be a DBIC::Versioned or whatever | 00:48 |
| @preaction | or a WebGUI::Model::Role::Versioned | 00:49 |
| @preaction | and in a perfect world i'd have a pony | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | in a perfect world, I'd give you the pony | 00:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I think WebGUI's version system works okay | 00:52 |
| +perlDreamer | it could be implemented better though | 00:52 |
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| +perlDreamer | and it would be nice if it versioned everything | 00:53 |
| +perlDreamer | but I know that's much more challenging | 00:53 |
| @preaction | would anyone object if Folder had a checkbox to "Commit added files automatically" | 00:54 |
| +perlDreamer | how about if it has a user selectable workflow in the edit properties? | 00:55 |
| @preaction | of course it would need that | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | it won't work | 00:55 |
| @preaction | but then what about subfolders? | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | they inherit from the parent, or you can override | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | it won't work because the children don't check the parent for the autocommit tag | 00:56 |
| @preaction | this just opens a nice big huge can of worms | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | what that person wants is per branch configuration of commit workflow | 00:56 |
| @preaction | why does it always seem like i could reduce WebGUI to like 5 assets? | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | they'd be 5 very fat assets, not like the beautiful ones we have now :P | 00:58 |
| @preaction | which ones are those? | 01:00 |
| @preaction | we'd need a Folder, a Calendar, a RawContent, a RichContent, and a File | 01:00 |
| +perlDreamer | What about Sku's? | 01:00 |
| +perlDreamer | and the DataForm? | 01:01 |
| +perlDreamer | or forum? | 01:01 |
| @preaction | Form of course | 01:01 |
| @preaction | forum is a folder of folders of richcontents | 01:01 |
| @preaction | gallery is a folder of folders of files | 01:01 |
| @preaction | blog is a folder of richcontents | 01:01 |
| @preaction | richcontent would have useful, individually-placed attachments | 01:02 |
| @preaction | wiki is a folder of richcontents editable by anyone | 01:02 |
| +perlDreamer | Poll? | 01:03 |
| @preaction | form with a proper set of reporting features | 01:03 |
| +perlDreamer | Sku? | 01:04 |
| @preaction | would have to be its own asset as part of shop, but that's an entire subsystem of its own | 01:04 |
| @preaction | and a subclass of RichContent, of course | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | Sku is a role | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | so that you can buy or sell any of the other ones | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I wouldn't doubt that you could do what you're talking about | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we'd end up with "deep" sets of assets, instead of "wide" ones | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | where there are lots of subclasses, instead of siblings | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: how about a CommitMyChanges macro? | 01:16 |
| +perlDreamer | that would work outside of TurnAdminOn | 01:16 |
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| @preaction | they're normal users though, they don't know about version tags or committing or anything like that | 01:17 |
| +perlDreamer | you could make the label say anything | 01:17 |
| +perlDreamer | You must check-in your files after uploading | 01:17 |
| +perlDreamer | or whatever | 01:17 |
| +perlDreamer | the thing is, what the user really needs is access to the commit link | 01:17 |
| @preaction | well, what the user really needs is for the Gallery to allow any file uploads | 01:18 |
| @preaction | or to use a Collaboration System, or something | 01:18 |
| +perlDreamer | could you style a gallery to look like a folder | 01:19 |
| +perlDreamer | without albums and thumbnails and the like? | 01:19 |
| @preaction | of course | 01:19 |
| +perlDreamer | wel | 01:22 |
| +perlDreamer | Folder is such a nice, small, Asset though | 01:22 |
| +perlDreamer | Gallery is big! | 01:22 |
| @preaction | yes, but Gallery is only big because it has to deal with normal user input and versioning. if Folder had to, it would be big too | 01:24 |
| +perlDreamer | can you deep nest albums, like Folders? | 01:25 |
| @preaction | if we let anyone add files to a folder, we have to control it, filter it, secure it, and etc... | 01:25 |
| @preaction | no, but that's not out of the question as a feature | 01:25 |
| @preaction | just, nobody asked for it. nobody ever asks for it | 01:26 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg: new write method for Asset -> http://gist.github.com/321187 | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I need to expand the tests to consider roles | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, it seems to be a dance between implementing so many features that we're too big to use, and not having enough features for people to get work done | 01:31 |
| @preaction | yes. we add too little for the feature to matter to people to want to use it | 01:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not sure about that | 01:35 |
| @preaction | i've heard a dozen times people don't use Gallery simply because they can't nest albums | 01:36 |
| +perlDreamer | they why don't they file an RFE to get it done? | 01:38 |
| +perlDreamer | or pay to get it done? | 01:38 |
| +perlDreamer | or just write it themselves? | 01:38 |
| @preaction | because they aren't invested enough, they'd rather go find something that works | 01:38 |
| @preaction | they'd rather get their job done instead of merely telling someone else to do it | 01:39 |
| +perlDreamer | then we have to be psychic enough to know what people are going to need before we write stuff | 01:40 |
| @preaction | that's easy though: look at what everyone else is doing | 01:40 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4d3d031 / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Asset.pm : remove copy/paste variable names. - http://bit.ly/ahADuf | 01:46 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf88c18e / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Fix the write method to iterate over each property to get the table names instead of looking in the class metaproperties. - http://bit.ly/aQbbjK | 01:46 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3d52c45 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Changes to Post and Collaboration, for new Asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/auSYje | 01:46 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rda57427 / asset_status.ods : Collaboration tests are passing now. - http://bit.ly/9Yl3Ke | 01:46 |
| +perlDreamer | everyone else is using PHP :D | 01:46 |
| @preaction | but we can copy their features | 02:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | t/00_compile.t can be run! | 02:32 |
| +perlDreamer | github is down | 02:33 |
| +perlDreamer | a large portion of developers all leave for coffee | 02:33 |
| +perlDreamer | on the way out, they smile sadly at their boss and say, "Sorry, boss. But with github down we can do any work." | 02:35 |
| +perlDreamer | and the Boss scratches his head and says, "I thought that GitHub allowed offline work, which is why they spend all that time in the coffee shop...' | 02:36 |
| @preaction | and then they remember that git is distributed and allows pushing directly to production | 02:36 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r814c2af / (55 files in 6 dirs): Change calls to new to newById across Asset/ - http://bit.ly/c9rLvt | 02:41 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8f6c20d / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix lots of syntax errors and bad definition configuration. - http://bit.ly/d8XcR7 | 02:41 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r65a5053 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm : Fix a missing label in the WikiPage - http://bit.ly/9xWi9c | 02:41 |
| +perlDreamer | Today is a big day, preaction | 02:41 |
| +perlDreamer | t/00_compile.t runs clean | 02:41 |
| @preaction | yay! | 02:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | I think that in 2-3 weeks we could use an alpha server up and running for wg8 | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | is that doable? | 02:43 |
| @preaction | we also need every action a user is allowed to do to be configurable... because that is eventually what they want | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | in wg8? | 02:44 |
| @preaction | no, 7 | 02:44 |
| * perlDreamer is having a hard time with the context change | 02:44 | |
| +perlDreamer | what kind of actions, and what kind of configurability? | 02:44 |
| @preaction | sorry, i'm approving RFEs, since we're unfrozen again | 02:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I warned you about those german language RFEs | 02:45 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9b4a9be / (7 files in 2 dirs): Remove usage of Class:C3 in favor of roles. - http://bit.ly/bkzcjG | 03:59 |
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| @preaction | so many things are easy to do when you're first building an app, and absolutely impossible when you've got it deployed | 04:10 |
| @preaction | and so braindead as to wonder WHY it wasn't added in the first place | 04:10 |
| @preaction | i swear to god one day i'm gonna burn this place to the ground | 04:16 |
| @preaction | wonderful. i can't approve any other RFEs because i Can't find them. HelpDesk doesn't save sorting through pages | 04:31 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds like we should fix the sorting bug in the HelpDesk, sooner rather than later? | 04:38 |
| @preaction | frodwith will be doing so once he's finished with automat, so hopefully April | 04:42 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7e673d4 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/RssFeed.pm : Don't need no stinkin' strict anymore! - http://bit.ly/ajKdGK | 04:43 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5dc0299 / (4 files in 3 dirs): First cut at moving Subscribable to an Asset. - http://bit.ly/cffoTM | 04:43 |
| @preaction | that's the new tack: make paul do it | 04:45 |
| +perlDreamer | can you wait that long? | 04:46 |
| +perlDreamer | in any case, while we're working on the helpdesk, we need to display the time that a ticket was submited | 04:47 |
| @preaction | yeah, nobody's gonna be putting anything into 7.9 anyway | 04:47 |
| +perlDreamer | I think you may be surprised about that... | 04:47 |
| +perlDreamer | Luke Robinson's Login form code is a nice addition | 04:47 |
| @preaction | i know arjan has a couple things | 04:47 |
| +perlDreamer | and I may have a few pDC things to add as well | 04:47 |
| +perlDreamer | like the Folder DataForm template | 04:48 |
| @preaction | folder dataform template? | 04:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll get you a URL | 04:48 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/file-manager-style-template-for-folder | 04:49 |
| +perlDreamer | the other thing I'd like to work on is the Asset manager pop-up menu rewrite | 04:49 |
| +perlDreamer | where we use 1 menu and pop it up in the right place, instead of making 25-50 of them | 04:49 |
| +perlDreamer | should really speed things up for loading | 04:49 |
| +perlDreamer | whaddya think? | 04:51 |
| +perlDreamer | (about the folder) | 04:51 |
| @preaction | sounds fine to me | 04:51 |
| +perlDreamer | also, knowing patspam, I wouldn't doubt there's something that couldn't be worked in wG 7.9 from SDH | 04:53 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe the template usage search and replace code | 04:53 |
| @preaction | heh, yeah, not seeing that happening | 04:54 |
| @preaction | webgui 7 just needs to go away | 04:54 |
| @preaction | and 8 too | 04:54 |
| @preaction | we need WebGUI X | 04:54 |
| @preaction | (that's 10, not Ecks) | 04:54 |
| +perlDreamer | 8 will be good stuff | 04:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I just hope we don't get the huge turnover that happened with 6-7 | 04:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we should do 1 high profile RFE, though | 04:58 |
| +perlDreamer | even if we have to do it off hours | 04:58 |
| +perlDreamer | it was a promise PB made to the community | 04:58 |
| @preaction | but WebGUI 8 has to be ready, period | 04:59 |
| +patspam | I'm hanging out for wg11 | 05:01 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra37b1c7 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Cleanup for moose accessors. - http://bit.ly/dhSLHD | 05:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think there will ever be a WebGUI bigger than 8 | 05:02 |
| +perlDreamer | Gooey is out of tentacles | 05:02 |
| @preaction | if i have complete authority for 2 major versions, i can make something totally awesome | 05:05 |
| +perlDreamer | If you'd make a Trait for JSON in an Asset property that would be totally awesome now | 05:10 |
| @preaction | but i don't like JSON in assets | 05:11 |
| @preaction | would even go so far as to say i hate it | 05:11 |
| +perlDreamer | how would you do it differently? | 05:11 |
| @preaction | normalized | 05:13 |
| +perlDreamer | see, you're using one of those CS terms that I don't understand | 05:15 |
| @preaction | a joined table | 05:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Is the Installable AssetAspect used anywhere? | 05:16 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2b39e16 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Rough conversion of Comments and Installable to Moose. - http://bit.ly/bs75wc | 05:22 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r36b6081 / (3 files): Update 3 Form plugins for Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/anQQE5 | 05:31 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra62e7b7 / lib/WebGUI/Session/Style.pm : Update Session for new Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/aLKgIO | 05:35 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4137b19 / lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm : Update Account/Inbox plugin for new Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/bKZK8f | 05:38 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r913802f / lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm : And again... - http://bit.ly/c9OvDh | 05:39 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * raab930a / lib/WebGUI/Content/AssetDiscovery.pm : Update Content handlers for wg8. - http://bit.ly/bx3kSX | 05:43 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r19d4e6d / lib/WebGUI/AdminConsole.pm : Update AdminConsole for instaniators. - http://bit.ly/dpzvbo | 05:43 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd9e2816 / lib/WebGUI/Operation/Help.pm : Update Operation/Help for new asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/bcHo2a | 05:44 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * red58eba / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : More instanciator cleanup in Asset.pm - http://bit.ly/bN71T4 | 05:48 |
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| +patspam | night all | 06:15 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re759890 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Update TrashExpiredEvents to wg8. - http://bit.ly/bNahwL | 06:45 |
| +perlDreamer | select assetId from EventsCalendar_event where eventEndDate < ? | 06:45 |
| @preaction | sounds awesome | 06:47 |
| +perlDreamer | aside from the table not existing | 06:47 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm guessing this is another one of those low usage workflow activities | 06:47 |
| @preaction | probably | 06:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I want to convert all the other classes over to Moose now | 06:49 |
| +perlDreamer | well, either that or write tests for 6 weeks non-stop | 06:50 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1706747 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Fix this completely broken Workflow Activity. - http://bit.ly/bZIsPc | 06:50 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3471f62 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Fix this completely broken Workflow Activity. - http://bit.ly/ceCmlw | 06:50 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rcd2c1f5 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/GetSyndicatedContent.pm : Update workflow activity for wg8. - http://bit.ly/9eHw7P | 06:53 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2147d7f / lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm : Update getAssetsInTrash method for wg8 instanciations and exception handling. - http://bit.ly/bXXPG2 | 06:55 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3e7e2c4 / lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm : And again. - http://bit.ly/bCsrWR | 06:56 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r03427ee / lib/WebGUI/ProgressBar.pm : Update ProgressBar for new wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/cHZT0a | 06:57 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * recc71d4 / (6 files in 3 dirs): Update Shop for new instanciators and for exception handling. - http://bit.ly/9QH7bt | 07:08 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdfc388f / (2 files in 2 dirs): More Subscribable fixes. - http://bit.ly/9SPg94 | 07:08 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbf1cb7b / (7 files in 2 dirs): Aspect to Role renaming - http://bit.ly/cO4Ytq | 07:10 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r26e50b9 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/RssFeed.pm : Fix POD typo. - http://bit.ly/a0GpLn | 07:26 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, preaction, the SC asset is currently broke in wg8. I'll be fixing it tomorrow. | 07:26 |
| @preaction | it's okay, nobody's gonna use the SC asset in WG8 for a while | 07:26 |
| +perlDreamer | hopefully not too long | 07:29 |
| +perlDreamer | of course, there's still all the editing interfaces to work on | 07:29 |
| +perlDreamer | but building wg8 may be one of the best things to ever happen to wg7 | 07:29 |
| +perlDreamer | since we're literally crawling through all the code | 07:29 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 16:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | Greasings | 16:45 |
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| +patspam | morning perlDreamer | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | howdy, patspam | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | big milestone in WebGUI 8 last night | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | the syntax check ran clean | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | and Roles seem to be working for the most part | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | needs more testing though | 17:32 |
| SDuensin | Whaaa? Cool! | 17:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and ahead of us, is the new CHI caching infratructure | 17:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and change to automated form building in all assets | 17:32 |
| SDuensin | Is there a roadmap anywhere? Just curious as to what you're planning for 8. | 17:33 |
| +perlDreamer | there was a roadmap presented at the WUC | 17:39 |
| +perlDreamer | it's changed since then, though | 17:39 |
| +perlDreamer | you could try asking preaction, or searching through the Black Blog for the older announcements | 17:39 |
| SDuensin | I know how that is. My roadmap changes direction like a flag in a thunderstorm. | 17:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | SDuensin: http://www.webgui.org/use/wgtv/wgtv/2009-state-of-webgui#idgV-xaRzZhRqX-3hbNo5Jhw | 17:40 |
| SDuensin | Thanks! I was just headed to the TV area to look around! | 17:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | I think that the initial wg 8 roadmap was reveiled there | 17:40 |
| SDuensin | (Buffering!) | 17:41 |
| SDuensin | This is kind of an obvious URL, now that I see it... http://www.webgui.org/roadmap | 17:42 |
| ckotil | heh | 17:47 |
| SDuensin | I like this statement: "WebGUI 8 is about strengthening the platform for the future, and about improving the user experience." | 17:48 |
| SDuensin | The hardest part I have in selling WebGUI to people is the appearance. Not to be cruel, but the default look is ugly at best. | 17:48 |
| SDuensin | You put an out-of-the-box WebGUI next to something like Liferay and it just makes WebGUI look old. | 17:49 |
| SDuensin | Unfortunately, people don't realize the "problem" isn't a problem until they've run off with something else and find out it sucks. :-/ | 17:50 |
| +perlDreamer | gosh, that turd sure looked purdy | 18:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | hmmm | 18:00 |
| * MrHairgrease is not sure he wants to know... | 18:01 | |
| SDuensin | hehe | 18:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | and what is purdy | 18:01 |
| SDuensin | People like all the snazzy AJAXy crap. | 18:02 |
| +perlDreamer | purdy is slang for pretty | 18:03 |
| +perlDreamer | with a southern drawl | 18:03 |
| * ckotil plucks the banjo | 18:03 | |
| +MrHairgrease | oh if it's pretty then I'm all ears | 18:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | tell us about the pretty turd | 18:04 |
| +perlDreamer | well, gosh, it has that nice thing where it gets all blinky | 18:04 |
| +perlDreamer | and when I start to type, it already knows what I'm going to say | 18:05 |
| +perlDreamer | all the corners are roundy | 18:05 |
| +perlDreamer | it just looks cool | 18:05 |
| SDuensin | Yes! Roundy! | 18:05 |
| * SDuensin wrote a roundy corner thing for WebGUI. | 18:05 | |
| +perlDreamer | I couldn't get it to do anything useful, but it's sure purdy | 18:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | seems like general eurotrash to me | 18:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 18:06 |
| +perlDreamer | that would be a euroturd | 18:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | hehe | 18:06 |
| SDuensin | Look! Roundy test! http://allplay.jaegertech.net/ | 18:06 |
| +bartjol | what, is there a generic solution for that? | 18:08 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, it's called CSS | 18:08 |
| SDuensin | I'm trying. | 18:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | hmm, the style seems to be a mix between modern realism and postapocalyptic neopurdyism | 18:08 |
| +bartjol | that'll put 30% of all webbuilders without work | 18:08 |
| +bartjol | which css? | 18:09 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI itself doesn't care what it looks like | 18:09 |
| +perlDreamer | it's all just styling | 18:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | bart: http://allplay.jaegertech.net/purdyroundies.css | 18:09 |
| +bartjol | nice | 18:10 |
| SDuensin | It's some javascript/css stuff I found and then I did an article template that lets you easily set the style. | 18:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a business of selling WebGUI style packages | 18:10 |
| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, sounds like a great thing to put in the Bazaar | 18:10 |
| SDuensin | Once it no longer sucks, sure. :-) | 18:10 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I put up the sortable DataForm template before it was done | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | and some people actually fixed the bugs for me | 18:11 |
| SDuensin | Freaky. | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | Don't sit on it until it's perfect, otherwise it'll never get done | 18:11 |
| SDuensin | Right now, you put the extra style details in the "Summary" field of the article. | 18:12 |
| SDuensin | Just feels "hacky" to me. | 18:13 |
| +perlDreamer | why not put it in the extraHeadTags? | 18:13 |
| +perlDreamer | or in the template itself? | 18:13 |
| SDuensin | Because it's per-article. | 18:14 |
| SDuensin | WTF is Swiftysite? Google doesn't know them. | 18:14 |
| +perlDreamer | Swiftysite is someone peeling off the top of WebGUI, restyling it, and selling cheap website in the Netherlands | 18:14 |
| +perlDreamer | very, very nice people | 18:14 |
| +perlDreamer | you should come to a WUC and meet them | 18:14 |
| SDuensin | I'd like to. But they should talk to Google, too! | 18:15 |
| +perlDreamer | well, if any of the guys come into the IRC room, I'll point that out to them | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | hang on | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | when I type in swiftysite into google, it's the first result | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | alphamegahosting.com | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | that's them | 18:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | here as well | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe SDuensin has thick fingers or something | 18:18 |
| SDuensin | Really? Trying again! | 18:19 |
| SDuensin | Ok, you guys just added it. :-P | 18:20 |
| +bartjol | yeah, we plugged into googles db | 18:20 |
| ckotil | swiftysite is powered by webgui? | 18:21 |
| ckotil | that's awesome. ive used it a time or two. dont understand a lick of it, but it makes great websites | 18:21 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 18:21 |
| +perlDreamer | yay! slow support day. I'm going to get tons of hacking done | 18:24 |
| SDuensin | HaCkInG! | 18:25 |
| +perlDreamer | well, for me, it is haCKing | 18:26 |
| SDuensin | The Wrath of Koen! | 18:26 |
| +perlDreamer | I try not to begrudge Calvin Klein the use of my initials | 18:26 |
| +bartjol | we lumberjack with it | 18:26 |
| ckotil | pd! you to? | 18:26 |
| +MrHairgrease | well, have fun with your purdy turds | 18:27 |
| * MrHairgrease is off! | 18:27 | |
| * bartjol follows him on the feet | 18:27 | |
| +perlDreamer | me, too ckotil | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | later, you Nederlanderin | 18:28 |
| +bartjol | we're male | 18:28 |
| ckotil | we share initials with the mild manner Clark Kent too | 18:28 |
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| +perlDreamer | MrHairgrease, should I have said Nederlanderer? | 18:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | Nederlanders | 18:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | and now | 18:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | its | 18:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | time | 18:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | to GO and enjoy my free time! | 18:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | woot | 18:30 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r35e1e8c / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SyndicatedContent.pm : Fix SC use of RssFeed role. - http://bit.ly/bRsiNQ | 18:38 |
| SDuensin | Free time? Wazzat? | 18:40 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf17fc5c / (12 files): Update Macros for wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/be1S8Z | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | that's when you work on Free Software projects and drink beer | 18:48 |
| SDuensin | Must be nice. | 18:49 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r360acb5 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Use wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/ak9xmy | 18:51 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3d9006b / (3 files in 2 dirs): Update Auth system for wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/bR4sER | 18:53 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd5dd260 / (2 files in 2 dirs): More instanciator cleanup. - http://bit.ly/9iW39m | 18:55 |
| SDuensin | There he goes talking about WebGUI FS again. Evil tease! | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, quit griping, break out yer keyboard and start hackin' | 18:56 |
| SDuensin | I know, I know! | 18:57 |
| SDuensin | I have a list of things I want to do to WebGUI that's a mile long. | 18:58 |
| SDuensin | Run CNN.com through the story manager? Does CNN know about this? :-) | 18:59 |
| mducharme-work | holy | 18:59 |
| mducharme-work | when did 7.8 go stable | 18:59 |
| SDuensin | Last week, I believe. | 19:00 |
| mducharme-work | I've been out of it for a few weeks and suddenly everything changes | 19:00 |
| mducharme-work | any gotchas for upgrading from 7.7.30 up through the current 7.8? | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | any known ones where fixed in 7.8.14 2 days ago | 19:01 |
| SDuensin | Yes. You have to make a stop at 7.7.33, I believe. Whatever the last 7.7.x is. | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | we need more brave souls to test upgrading on live sites for us | 19:01 |
| SDuensin | I was going to be brave last night, but the kids had other plans. | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I'd really like to use Test::Sweet, but prove doesn't like i | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | it | 19:05 |
| mducharme-work | ok, upgrading to 7.7.33 | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | SD, if you want a project to help WebGUI out, start a wiki page with a list of all known upgrade points and stop versions. | 19:15 |
| SDuensin | That'll be a short list. I only remember 7.7.33! | 19:16 |
| mducharme-work | hrm | 19:25 |
| mducharme-work | I'm trying to install Locales::Country like mentioned in the gotchas | 19:25 |
| mducharme-work | cpan says no such package found | 19:25 |
| mducharme-work | is that the wrong name for it? | 19:26 |
| @preaction | mducharme-work: just use testEnvironment.pl, if that works, Webgui will work | 19:27 |
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| mducharme-work | 7.8.3 -------------------------------------------------------------------- * WebGUI now requires Locales::Country 0.05 or higher to use the UPS shipping driver. | 19:30 |
| mducharme-work | guys, that is a typo in the gotchas | 19:31 |
| mducharme-work | that should say Locale::Country | 19:31 |
| mducharme-work | I think | 19:31 |
| mducharme-work | because I'm able to install "Locale::Country" but "Locales::Country" does not exist | 19:31 |
| mducharme-work | should I open a ticket for the typo? | 19:33 |
| * SDuensin sighs - the roadmap wants to move configs out of the database and into the config files. Go the other way! | 19:36 | |
| mducharme-work | oops.. not a typo, a newer gotcha says that was replaced with an older one | 19:36 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 19:36 |
| mducharme-work | this really should be simpler | 19:36 |
| mducharme-work | I hate parsing manually through gotcha files desparately trying to make sure I do not miss any perl module requirements | 19:36 |
| mducharme-work | 7.8.14 here I come | 19:40 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 19:41 |
| mducharme-work | any new storymanager templates in 7.8.x by any chance?? | 19:42 |
| * SDuensin has no idea. | 19:46 | |
| mducharme-work | woo, everything works | 19:46 |
| mducharme-work | upgrade went very smooth | 19:47 |
| mducharme-work | now to upgrade my other client's server | 19:47 |
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| SDuensin | Sweet! | 19:59 |
| mducharme-work | all done | 20:07 |
| mducharme-work | all my servers are at 7.8.14 now | 20:07 |
| SDuensin | Nice! Now you're making me feel lazy! | 20:09 |
| +perlDreamer | mducharme-work, Locales::Country should have been replace by Locales... | 20:28 |
| +perlDreamer | let me check on that | 20:28 |
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| mducharme-work | perldreamer yeah it was but the old gotcha is still there | 20:36 |
| mducharme-work | thjat says to install Locales::Country, so I was trying to do that | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, perhaps the newer one should be made clearer | 20:36 |
| mducharme-work | I go through the gotchas in sequence from oldest to newest when I am looking at what to upgrade | 20:36 |
| mducharme-work | so I saw the older module before the newer one | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll put a note about the change next to the older one, as well | 20:39 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r109f06c / docs/gotcha.txt : Make the replacement of Locale::Country with Locales more clear, w.r.t the 7.8.3 gotcha. - http://bit.ly/ciTQVf | 20:54 |
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| kimd | Evening, everyone! | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | yo, kimd | 21:47 |
| kimd | perlDreamer, I like your WNN! | 21:49 |
| kimd | Subscribed to the RSS feed yesterday. | 21:49 |
| kimd | Keep on writing! | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks :). Unfortunately, it's languished for a long time. | 21:49 |
| kimd | You should advertise it a bit more. | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | When I started a year ago, I did | 21:51 |
| kimd | I must have missed that. | 21:52 |
| kimd | No readers? | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | no, just lack of time | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | when my wife started school full time, I lost lots of my spare time | 21:53 |
| kimd | Hm, spare time is a precious good. | 21:54 |
| kimd | I wished I had more. | 21:54 |
| kimd | But now to something completely unrelated: | 21:54 |
| kimd | Is there a switch statement in perl? | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | in 5.10 there is | 21:54 |
| @preaction | there is in 5.10, given/when | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | and in 5.8, there is a perl module called Switch, but it's a source filter and can suffer from performance and other issues | 21:55 |
| kimd | Does that mean I should not use it? | 21:56 |
| kimd | I mean, the Switch module? | 21:57 |
| kimd | We are still using 5.8 in the wre, correct? | 21:57 |
| @preaction | 5.10 actually | 21:57 |
| @preaction | but we only require 5.8 | 21:58 |
| @preaction | WebGUI 8 can require 5.10 | 21:58 |
| kimd | I assume that means I should not use given/when yet? | 21:59 |
| +perlDreamer | if you want to make custom code for your own server, go ahead and use it | 21:59 |
| +perlDreamer | but any 5.10 specific features have to wait until WebGUI 8 | 21:59 |
| +perlDreamer | no say, smart match, given/when, regexp improvements, etc | 21:59 |
| kimd | I see. Thanks for your answer. | 22:00 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a bummer, for sure. which is why we should all work hard on getting WebGUI 8 out as soon as possible | 22:02 |
| kimd | Just having my first git experience. | 22:21 |
| kimd | Why did we switch from svn to git? I found that svn was alright. | 22:22 |
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| kimd | Now I have to learn the next versioning tool. | 22:22 |
| kimd | Not that I want to complain... | 22:23 |
| kimd | It's all about flexibility these days. | 22:23 |
| +perlDreamer | that's one of the reasons we switched | 22:23 |
| +perlDreamer | git is very flexible, and it's incredibly fast compared to svn | 22:24 |
| +perlDreamer | there are some very nice tutorials for svn users who want to switch to git | 22:24 |
| kimd | Well, since I have no choice... Learning keeps you young, doesn't it? | 22:28 |
| +perlDreamer | Yeah, it does | 22:40 |
| +perlDreamer | although sometimes it can make you prematurely old | 22:41 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r669f803 / t/Definition/Asset.t : check for get, set, update in Definition/Asset.t - http://bit.ly/crtio9 | 22:45 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, somehow in Definition/Asset we're losing get, set and update from Definition::Role::Object | 22:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I committed a test to check that | 22:46 |
| +perlDreamer | and will soon be converting the Definition tests over to Test::Class for more robust testing up and down the chain | 22:46 |
| @Haarg | http://gist.github.com/322094 does this help? | 22:48 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 22:50 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'm kind of glad it didn't, because that would mean no composite roles | 22:51 |
| * perlDreamer takes a lunch break | 22:52 | |
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| kimd | A question for the template experts: | 23:07 |
| kimd | What happens if a hash value set to undef is passed to template processors. | 23:08 |
| kimd | Will that cause problems are just result in an empty template var? | 23:08 |
| kimd | I am asking because I have a template var previousFile that may be empty if there is not previous file. | 23:09 |
| kimd | no | 23:09 |
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| kimd | Ok, let's leave this question open for today. | 23:29 |
| kimd | Good night everyone! | 23:29 |
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| --- Day changed Fri Mar 05 2010 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | yo, rizen | 01:14 |
| @rizen | howdy | 01:25 |
| @rizen | sorry for the delay, just having a chat with stevan | 01:26 |
| +perlDreamer | no sweat | 01:28 |
| +perlDreamer | I was almost ready to ship you a liver | 01:28 |
| @rizen | ooh, me like liver. at least if it's from a child of no more than 12 years | 01:29 |
| +perlDreamer | this one is 11, so a little old | 01:29 |
| @rizen | still tender though | 01:29 |
| +perlDreamer | what happens at 12? | 01:29 |
| @rizen | they go sour | 01:29 |
| @rizen | at that point just grind them up and make dog food | 01:29 |
| +perlDreamer | well, the current liver owner is shaping up, so perhaps I'll have to order and the Frau some takeout Thai food | 01:31 |
| @rizen | amazing, i was just thinking that myself | 01:32 |
| +perlDreamer | lean a little closer to the screen, and I can tell you what you want, too | 01:33 |
| +perlDreamer | no, closer still | 01:34 |
| +perlDreamer | Sarah wants Pad Thai | 01:34 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 01:34 |
| +perlDreamer | something interfering with the pickup | 01:35 |
| @rizen | actually she doesn't | 01:35 |
| @rizen | she's been getting other stuff lately | 01:35 |
| @rizen | i think she must be sick | 01:35 |
| +perlDreamer | definitely | 01:35 |
| @rizen | the pad thai is sooooooo good | 01:35 |
| +perlDreamer | Pad Khee Mao is better | 01:35 |
| @rizen | next time i'm in oregon i'll make you prove it | 01:35 |
| @rizen | gotta go | 01:36 |
| +perlDreamer | You're on. | 01:36 |
| @rizen | ttyl | 01:36 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf5f1839 / (t/run_asset.t t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm): Begin converting t/Asset.t over to Test::Class - http://bit.ly/aZZ7a4 | 01:37 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r006bda8 / t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm : More Test::Class tests for AssetBase.pm - http://bit.ly/bykELB | 02:08 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r053b5a8 / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Asset.pm : Rework get_tables to check each and every property. - http://bit.ly/dajC5c | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg: even if I just try to apply Definition::Role::Object in Definition/Asset, it still doesn't provide get/set/update/etc | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | they're not applying in Definition.pm, either | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | at least it's consistent | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | it was the d7b0d93a commit | 02:23 |
| +perlDreamer | so now we have no warnings, but no roles, either | 02:23 |
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| +patspam | how advanced is wG's static html exporting capabilities/ | 03:40 |
| +patspam | ? | 03:40 |
| @preaction | pretty advanced, the entire US embassy websites use it | 03:41 |
| @preaction | what do you need? | 03:42 |
| @preaction | there's even the Widget macro to get little parts of dynamic content inside all the static content | 03:42 |
| +patspam | sorry phone rang | 03:58 |
| +patspam | can it export a tree of page layouts and articles? | 03:58 |
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| @preaction | of course | 04:05 |
| * patspam reads AssetExportHtml.pm | 04:06 | |
| +patspam | one day I should sit down and scan the source code from top to bottom, there's lots of stuff in here i never knew existed | 04:06 |
| @preaction | heh, yeah, there's a whole lot in there that i forget about ;) | 04:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | MrHairgrease, I thought you might be at the Dutch perl workshop today | 18:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | I was planning on going | 18:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | but I ended up staying in Delft | 18:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | Better luck next year | 18:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | and I _am_ going to the yapc | 18:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | eu that is | 18:07 |
| +perlDreamer | where is it this year? | 18:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | Pisa! | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | Do you drive, train or fly to get there? | 18:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | If I attach my vacation I'll prolly go by car | 18:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | otherwise I'll fly | 18:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's about a two day drive I gues | 18:15 |
| +perlDreamer | 13 hours, 9 minutes | 18:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | too much for one day anyway | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | gotta go and help Kathy, bbl | 18:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | oki | 18:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | bye | 18:19 |
| +perlDreamer | she lost her phone at the train station | 18:45 |
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| @Haarg | finally figuring out POE a bit better. using it for a silly personal project. | 19:14 |
| @frodwith | POE++ | 19:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | What do you all think of that post on the webgui.org forums, about the site redesign for the dating site? | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | SPAM, or legitimate request for help? | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, what does the init_meta method do? | 20:25 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3c790d9 / t/Definition.t : Add Role presence tests. - http://bit.ly/coUsoK | 20:29 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * recd3158 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): Applying class metaroles before the other roles seems to do the right thing. - http://bit.ly/bjIRXl | 20:29 |
| @Haarg | it initializes the metaclass instance for the class | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the problem | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | we can't apply roles yet | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | there's no meatclass | 20:31 |
| @Haarg | by the time our code gets called, there is a metaclass. but altering it definitely could interfere with the roles. | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | well, when I applied the metaclass roles first, it started working | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | tests pass | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm going to add some role analysis code to the Definition tests | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | next question has to do with JSON in the database. | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | The subscribable asset does this by interfering with get and update | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | I was thinking that perhaps a Trait would be better | 20:34 |
| @Haarg | probably | 20:36 |
| @Haarg | not sure the best way to do that though | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | me either. | 20:39 |
| +perlDreamer | we could use around around each property that stores the JSON | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | but that seems like a hassle | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | coercion and via look nice, but they're only one way | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | you can put it in as a datastructure, but you get back JSON | 21:32 |
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| @frodwith | Trait that arounds the accessor sounds like the way to go to me. | 22:56 |
| @frodwith | why is it a hassle? | 22:57 |
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| @Haarg | i probably need to do some extra work for that. traits on properties don't work right now. | 23:16 |
| @Haarg | shouldn't be too bad to fix though. | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | as long as the trait puts it around the property, that's fine. | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | if I have to do it one by one, that's not so fine | 23:54 |
| --- Day changed Sat Mar 06 2010 | ||
| +perlDreamer | I had a different idea while cooking dinner | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | if properties had a trait called 'should_serialize', then the write method would query the property, and then it would know whether to call the standard accessor, or the serialized accessor | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | that way, you can get to the raw data, and not have to jump through hoops with the write method needing to manually serialize the data | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | I was thinking of Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::ArrayRef::JSON | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | and similarly for HashRef::JSON | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | and then we have something we can give back to the community via CPAN | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | any way, I need to go pick up my sons at school | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | see you all later | 00:02 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb5e03dd / lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm : Remove dead method with the same name as a property. - http://bit.ly/afusHD | 00:42 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6f9b891 / t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm : Convert more tests over to Test::Class - http://bit.ly/bFsCFd | 01:17 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r029655d / asset_status.ods : Add a sheet to track Roles. - http://bit.ly/9KVKsz | 01:17 |
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| --- Day changed Sun Mar 07 2010 | ||
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| Getty | before i do something bad, can i install it via CPAN? cause the webpage "recommends" to use that but i dont know if that includes cpan way of install | 03:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | Getty, you cannot install WebGUI from CPAN. | 05:09 |
| +perlDreamer | you can download a full VM, you can download the WRE (which is basically application level install with full software stack) or you do a "source install" where you download the WebGUI source, install the modules, configure apache, mysql, set up the filesystem and run it yourself. | 05:10 |
| Getty | the middle version, please, where is the exit? ;) j/k | 05:11 |
| Getty | ok so i got already a running environment | 05:11 |
| Getty | then i should prefer the source install if i know what i do in general? ;) | 05:12 |
| Getty | i wanted to install it via CPAN on a local::lib path for the webserver vhost, so that would be then source install of modules + local::lib with the same result, right? | 05:13 |
| Getty | or is there anything special that blocks that plan? | 05:13 |
| +perlDreamer | for the WebGUI modules, no | 05:16 |
| +perlDreamer | but several of the support scripts expect to be close to the lib directory | 05:16 |
| +perlDreamer | as in ../lib only | 05:16 |
| +perlDreamer | if you know what you're doing in general, you can do a source install | 05:16 |
| +perlDreamer | although one other reason to use the WRE is performance | 05:16 |
| +perlDreamer | it sets up two different servers, one small one as reverse proxy and static file server, and one "heavy" one to handle mod_perl | 05:17 |
| Getty | but it would collide with my personal install? | 05:17 |
| +perlDreamer | you can set your environment to keep them separate, except for MySQL | 05:18 |
| +perlDreamer | it depends on what you want to do with it | 05:18 |
| +perlDreamer | if you want to tinker, a source install is best | 05:18 |
| Getty | actually microsite, private, no hits | 05:18 |
| Getty | i just want to use a perl CMS | 05:18 |
| +perlDreamer | a source install is right up your alley then | 05:18 |
| +perlDreamer | download WebGUI | 05:18 |
| Getty | and start doing what i prayed now on the cebit for 1 week | 05:18 |
| +perlDreamer | untar it in /data | 05:18 |
| +perlDreamer | run /data/WebGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl to check for requirements and/or install them | 05:19 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.webgui.org/wiki/source-install | 05:20 |
| +perlDreamer | that page has all the gory details | 05:20 |
| Getty | cool | 05:22 |
| Getty | a little bad that noone actually told me about WebGUI before the CeBIT | 05:22 |
| +perlDreamer | Why? | 05:22 |
| Getty | cause the "CMS" stuff was a theme from time to time and we didnt had any suggestion beside Bruccolage or how its written | 05:23 |
| Getty | i was there representing perl | 05:23 |
| +perlDreamer | our promotional efforts for WebGUI wax and wane | 05:24 |
| +perlDreamer | two years ago they did the whole conference tour in the US | 05:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and came to YAPC EU in portugal last summer | 05:24 |
| Getty | oh cool, so that isnt that bad for you | 05:24 |
| +perlDreamer | no, but more users is always better | 05:24 |
| Getty | yeah but CeBIT is actually really big as you know probably | 05:24 |
| Getty | actually we took lots of contacts with us of people and companies who wanna do more with perl | 05:24 |
| Getty | and now i got WebGUI as something to show, actually with that installer process you said its really an awesome idea | 05:25 |
| Getty | but i must dive into it to REALLY value it, cause i also do own CMS activities (which i didnt promoted on CeBIT ;) ) and do the CMS agency business since the stuff is there, i'm very critic | 05:26 |
| +perlDreamer | well, feel free to come back with questions, comments and criticisms | 05:26 |
| Getty | i stay here :-P | 05:26 |
| * Getty never leaves ;) | 05:26 | |
| +perlDreamer | well, feel free to say here and ask questions, too ;) | 05:27 |
| Getty | hehe ;) | 05:27 |
| Getty | its 4:30 here, at 8:30 i must getup for the "last breakfast" with all other perl dudes of cebit before we leave hannover | 05:27 |
| Getty | and i didnt slept more then 4-5 hours the last 5 days | 05:28 |
| Getty | i'm so wasted | 05:28 |
| +perlDreamer | is that pretty common for a CeBIT? | 05:28 |
| Getty | if you want to promote perl AT ALL COST, yes | 05:28 |
| Getty | i did many contacts via drinking at the after show parties | 05:28 |
| Getty | that was actually my speciality of the crew | 05:28 |
| Getty | but that way i opened up a dialog to IBM, lets see whats come out there | 05:29 |
| Getty | and russia and macedonien | 05:29 |
| +perlDreamer | cool. Someone was been adding to the Russian WebGUI translation recently, but it is still low in overall coverage | 05:29 |
| Getty | on russia i got mainly contact to research and development of russia, dont know how much "CMS" they actually need | 05:30 |
| Getty | we are also more there to open a dialog | 05:30 |
| Getty | its about knowing what is missing for more perl on business | 05:30 |
| Getty | btw: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl-Staff | 05:30 |
| +perlDreamer | cool, open-source conference staffing | 05:36 |
| Getty | i made the t-shirts and will make more for other events | 05:37 |
| Getty | i like webgui, i mean the presentation is awesome | 05:42 |
| Getty | i need sleep n8 | 05:44 |
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| elnino | so. I have an article asset, with a flv and a jpg attachemnt. I was hoping I could get the flv by using attachment.url and the image by using image.url, or do I have to use the attachment loop, and chech for isimage and assume that when false, it's the flv? Make sense? | 07:51 |
| @preaction | heh, CeBIT sounds like the last WUC I was at | 08:41 |
| * preaction only missed 4 hours of presentations due to hangover | 08:41 | |
| @preaction | which reminds me i have to register for the next YAPC | 08:41 |
| @preaction | elnino: use the loop, it's more reliable | 08:42 |
| elnino | ok. thanks preaction. | 08:42 |
| * preaction wishes you could just put those attachments inside the article yourself | 08:42 | |
| elnino | I remember such conversation not to long ago. | 08:42 |
| @preaction | yeah, it still hurts | 08:43 |
| elnino | =) | 08:43 |
| @preaction | it will hurt until it gets fixed | 08:43 |
| @preaction | if i could nuke all of WebGUI 7 and 8 and rebuild it all from scratch... | 08:43 |
| @preaction | oh wait, i'm already doing it... http://github.com/preaction/modern-webgui | 08:43 |
| elnino | you are a very busy person. | 08:44 |
| @preaction | not really, haven't worked on that in 3 months :'( | 08:47 |
| elnino | perhaps that is true at github, but I know here you are. | 08:48 |
| @preaction | well, yeah i'm working on other stuff | 08:48 |
| elnino | I'm calling it quits. Too much fun for the weekend. Putting video site together using flowplayer. kinda cool. | 08:49 |
| @preaction | heard good things about flowplayer, but yeah, it's sunday now, get some rest sheesh | 08:49 |
| elnino | so is github the new sourceforge? | 08:49 |
| @preaction | pretty much yeah | 08:49 |
| @preaction | git is soooooo much nicer than svn | 08:49 |
| @preaction | like ten thousand percent nicer | 08:50 |
| elnino | hmm. I'll look at git later.. Good night! | 08:52 |
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| Getty | so... finally home from cebit, now i can checkout webgui and check if i can make a webpage with blog in an hour ;) | 20:05 |
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| doc777 | Hello friends. We recently upgraded to 7.7.33-stable and all our log in boxes, most of the user profile boxes, and the create account boxes are at 100 pixels now. They scroll off the side of the page. This seems to be the case in admin settings as well. Did I miss something? | 21:24 |
| Getty | LOL that is really purposed that if i do: perl testEnvironment.pl --help i get the source in my viewer? ;) | 21:38 |
| Getty | ah no, i see, its a debian workaround for people who dont have perl-doc, so ok :) never came to that | 21:41 |
| doc777 | Anyone know why our username boxes all went to 100 px after our upgrade? The text boxes scroll off the side the page :o) | 22:23 |
| doc777 | I upgraded to 7.8.14 to see if it would help but they are still the same looks like. | 22:24 |
| Getty | damn it, the parser cant read my config | 22:58 |
| doc777 | lol, there is a setting in the Admin > setting >ui now for Text Box Size and it was set to 100. After an hour of digging through templates and macros I found it :o) | 22:59 |
| Getty | bad question: does it actually require 5.8? or does it also work with 5.10 | 23:01 |
| doc777 | What are you trying to do? :o) | 23:03 |
| @preaction | Getty: 5.10 is fine | 23:03 |
| Getty | http://paste.debian.net/63039/ | 23:04 |
| Getty | i dont get it, what he has as problem, the json itself looks fine | 23:07 |
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| @preaction | Getty: paste your config file | 23:13 |
| Getty | yeah mom | 23:14 |
| @preaction | trailing commas is usually the culprit | 23:14 |
| Getty | http://paste.debian.net/63043/ | 23:14 |
| Getty | the last trailing comma? | 23:14 |
| Getty | cause i put it in cause it was also on the page | 23:14 |
| @preaction | that's your entire config file? | 23:15 |
| Getty | i do a source install | 23:15 |
| Getty | going after the help in the wiki | 23:15 |
| @preaction | yes, but you have to start from WebGUI.conf.original | 23:15 |
| @preaction | otherwise here you have no assets, no admin console items, no nothing really | 23:16 |
| Getty | AH! i missed that step | 23:16 |
| Getty | ok thta would explain it probably ;) | 23:16 |
| @preaction | also, the entire thing is a hash, so it should be surrounded with { ... } | 23:16 |
| Getty | true, but my brain is just half working, i just went after the doc | 23:17 |
| Getty | and missed one step ;) | 23:17 |
| Getty | classic | 23:17 |
| @preaction | it happens. problem is that most of this stuff is easy to determine (or easy to ask for), so we should really have a script to create site configs (and generate apache or other configs from a wg site config) | 23:18 |
| Getty | yeah its all a bit shacky, but you guys seem to concentrated on the features ;) cause it took hours to install all the modules ;) | 23:20 |
| Getty | for example i was confused that this preload script really needs a fix of the path | 23:21 |
| @preaction | yeah, that's my biggest pet peeve | 23:22 |
| Getty | OH! | 23:22 |
| Getty | now i got a problem | 23:22 |
| Getty | jhehe | 23:22 |
| Getty | i now have it working, and it directly startups the config (logical).. and i made that all on my live site hehe | 23:23 |
| Getty | i mean i stopped it now | 23:23 |
| Getty | aehm.,... mmhh.. must allow my ip only.. baeh stress.... | 23:23 |
| Getty | or wait, can i force that with the adminip? | 23:23 |
| Getty | so that noone else get the admin? | 23:23 |
| Getty | i mean that init stuff | 23:23 |
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| @preaction | i think that's what that is for | 23:24 |
| Getty | ok lets see | 23:24 |
| @preaction | and when you change config, remember to restart apache | 23:24 |
| Getty | bad to test hehe | 23:25 |
| Getty | its stopped right now anyway | 23:25 |
| Getty | spectre actually only uses spectre.conf right? | 23:25 |
| Getty | so restarting of him is not often required? or what is the regular way to go for him? | 23:26 |
| Getty | dont know what that daemon does | 23:26 |
| @preaction | no, it reads the other configs to know where to go, but unless you change the sitename or spectreIp or spectreSubnets you don't need to restart spectre | 23:26 |
| @preaction | spectre is the offline execution engine, like cronjobs but also things that take too long to do in realtime with the user waiting for a page response | 23:26 |
| Getty | ah nice idea | 23:27 |
| Getty | does it really use IKC? cause i saw that module on the list of required stuff | 23:28 |
| @preaction | yes, in order to pull status requests from outside (using the same spectre.pl script you can get the status of spectre) | 23:28 |
| Getty | it doesnt work with the admin subnet | 23:31 |
| Getty | i tried it with lynx on the server and still so the init config :-/ | 23:32 |
| @preaction | oh, the admin bar doesn't work with lynx, it's javascript-only | 23:32 |
| @preaction | admin mode requires javascript | 23:32 |
| @preaction | however, a quick ssh tunnel could fix that up for you | 23:32 |
| @preaction | that's usually what i do when i need to get around The Big Firewall to administer some stuff | 23:33 |
| Getty | wait wait | 23:35 |
| Getty | i'm still at the config | 23:35 |
| Getty | first startup | 23:35 |
| Getty | that i wanted to have blocked to a specific IP | 23:36 |
| Getty | cause i do that all here on a live system (my private site, so who cares) | 23:36 |
| Getty | but i got regulary hits | 23:36 |
| Getty | dont want someone else to config my stuff ;) | 23:36 |
| Getty | now i made allow/deny in the apache2 | 23:36 |
| Getty | wowowowowoowowowowoww | 23:47 |
| Getty | that stuff is heavy | 23:47 |
| Getty | awesome work | 23:47 |
| Getty | i'm impressed | 23:47 |
| Getty | right now i just got total overflow, now idea where to start really | 23:49 |
| Getty | but ok it runs... ;) | 23:49 |
| Getty | but the admin menu is totally confusing and actually now i got even an error about the display | 23:52 |
| @preaction | https://www.plainblack.com/services/training/webgui-primer <- free webgui primer might help | 23:55 |
| @preaction | but the error, pastebin that and i'll see what's up | 23:55 |
| Getty | its just displaying error, the cascading failed, or it was just to slow loading, dont know, didnt happened so far | 23:58 |
| Getty | but the menu is confusing, that always the left side "goes away" and you stand in the middle of nowhere | 23:58 |
| Getty | actually i have totally no idea how i edit the menu so remove add new files there or delete the existing one | 23:59 |
| Getty | ah that is no error | 23:59 |
| Getty | if i watch the navigation emnu .. yeah ok.. i get it | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Mon Mar 08 2010 | ||
| Getty | ey is there a "make anything empty" button? ;) lol | 00:00 |
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| Getty | re good morning and all :) more activity now? | 10:36 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 18:13 |
| +perlDreamer | Hey, SDuensin | 18:14 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: what kind of evaluation did you do with HTML::Packer when used with HTML::Template? | 19:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | bartjol: I did some remodeling work this weekend. | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | I still hurt | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | No pictures are available, either | 19:27 |
| +bartjol | ah, | 19:27 |
| +bartjol | how did it hurt? | 19:27 |
| +bartjol | on your eyes? | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | no, crawling on rafters in the attic | 19:28 |
| +perlDreamer | hands, knees, elbows | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | neck, back, legs | 19:29 |
| +bartjol | aah | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | I needed to reroute some electricity to a new outlet | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | for a new microwave | 19:32 |
| +bartjol | in the big hole in the wall | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | because we killed the old microwave by putting it on a heavily loaded circuit | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | fortunately, no big holes | 19:32 |
| +bartjol | I thought you made the hole, to fit the microwave in | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | we took out part of a cabinet | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | this weekend, during the install, I'll take some pictures | 19:33 |
| +bartjol | nice | 19:34 |
| +bartjol | I mainly stuggled with a driver today, but I won! | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | driver? Van, bus, bicycle or car? | 19:37 |
| +bartjol | bluetooth computer driver | 19:38 |
| dionak | are you remodeling your kitchen perlDreamer? | 19:38 |
| +perlDreamer | we are adding a new microwave over the stove | 19:38 |
| +bartjol | but I'm off, have fun | 19:38 |
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| dionak | we're prepping to gut our entire kitchen at home. maybe starting april or may | 19:44 |
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| dreamersgirl | it's quiet today. | 20:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | dionak, we'd like to do that too | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | something about rough finished plywood cabinetry from the '60s is just not that appealing anymore :) | 21:04 |
| dionak | yea, we're feeling the same perlDreamer. | 21:06 |
| dionak | must have been cool & hip at the time | 21:06 |
| * perlDreamer is thinking "cheap", "quick" and "easy" | 21:07 | |
| +perlDreamer | none of the cabinet or drawer faces have trim work. so the plywood has chipped | 21:07 |
| dionak | we've already done the cheap, quick and easy. it's time to do a bigger overhaul so we can quit getting annoyed by not being able to walk through the kitchen when the fridge is open. ;) | 21:13 |
| dionak | it's going to be an undertaking to say the least.. | 21:13 |
| dionak | quick question... | 21:13 |
| dionak | could the upgrade of WebGUI be enhanced to check to see if tables exist before trying to create them? | 21:14 |
| dionak | seems like that would make upgrading easier | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | it would certainly help with repeating upgrades, or handling hand backported code | 21:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | and it would be more of an enforcement check than anything | 21:16 |
| +perlDreamer | since so many different authors contribute code | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | we'd have to review the table insert code by hand | 21:17 |
| dionak | you mean table create? | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 21:18 |
| dionak | true... | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | are you still having upgrade hiccups? | 21:18 |
| dionak | i'm thinking that before anything is done, a sub should execute to check that any table creations do not already exist | 21:18 |
| dionak | yes | 21:18 |
| dionak | damn thing is working now when it should be broken. ;) | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | I hate it when that happens | 21:19 |
| dionak | lol, yea | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | like when I do electrical work at home, and it works the first time | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know whether to be proud, or suspicious... | 21:19 |
| dionak | exactly! | 21:19 |
| dionak | or if it will come back to bite me later | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | Am I having deja vu, or didn't we talk about this last week or so? | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | the solution was to drop the database before rerunning the upgrade | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | since importing the backup code will not remove the new tables | 21:21 |
| dionak | yea, we did. this is the first chance i've had to work on it. it's more of a data corruption issue with orphaned assetIds in the db | 21:21 |
| dionak | i've been writing a script to find orphans so i can address them and either 1) find a home or 2) remove them | 21:21 |
| dionak | .. by either | 21:21 |
| dionak | e.g. - there's an entry in assetData but not asset for an ID | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | seems like there are so many cases | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | asset, but not assetData | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | assetData, but not Asset | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | ... not Wobject | 21:22 |
| dionak | yes | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | or not table specific | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | or in those tables, but not asset; | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | and the worst will be Photo, or Newsletter | 21:23 |
| dionak | why's that? | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | since they are Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo (4 tables) | 21:23 |
| dionak | ugh | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | Asset/Wobect/Collaboration/Newsletter (also 4 tables) | 21:23 |
| dionak | ok, now you're just pushing me away perlDreamer :/ | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | no, I don't mean to do that | 21:24 |
| dionak | kidding | 21:24 |
| dionak | it's a pita | 21:24 |
| dionak | (not kidding) | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | exactly | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | one of the wg8 suggestions was to flatten the tables | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | and make them non-, uh | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | unnormalized | 21:25 |
| dionak | what about innodb? | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | innodb is slower in performance, I believe | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | the goal of this was actually to speed it up | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | by not spreading the data across several tables and thereby dropping the joins | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | I want to say it was 8x faster | 21:26 |
| dionak | how much slower is it to work with given the added complexity? or does it make it simplier? | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | it's simpler | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | writing only writes to 1 table | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | and reading only reads from 1 table | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | no joins | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | searching is now much more difficult | 21:27 |
| dionak | ls | 21:27 |
| dionak | oops | 21:27 |
| dionak | i definitely think that asset and assetData could collapse | 21:28 |
| dionak | theoretically | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | wouldn't it be weird to have versioned and unversioned data in the same table? | 21:31 |
| dionak | hm, you're right | 21:33 |
| dionak | i have a script now that mostly figures out orphaned data. going to test it on a staging server now | 21:33 |
| * dionak needs coffee | 21:36 | |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd0884af / (10 files in 3 dirs): Do not remove newlines from Templates (or Snippets) since HTML::Packer does not handle newlines with H::T syntax. Fixes bug #11458 - http://bit.ly/du0jQ9 | 21:39 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1e4fb86 / (10 files in 3 dirs): Do not remove newlines from Templates (or Snippets) since HTML::Packer does not handle newlines with H::T syntax. Fixes bug #11458 - http://bit.ly/ayCW6v | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, it happened again, only backwards this time | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | on the 7.7 upgrade, since there was no import node in the package none of the isPackage or isDefault properties were set | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | now, since there is an import node, EVERY asset below import had isPackage turned off, and isDefault set to 1 | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | what we need is metadata out of the package | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | a list of all assetIds that it touched | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | and then we post process those alone | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | so it no uses lineage at all | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | we could also add more options to importAssetData, like "clearPackageFlag" and "setDefaultTemplate" | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, preaction, I'm leaning pretty heavily toward adding options. In lieu of any feedback, I'll decide when I come back from a run. | 22:01 |
| @preaction | the options sounds fine to me | 22:01 |
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| --- Day changed Tue Mar 09 2010 | ||
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Luke Robinson master * rc61e745 / (8 files in 4 dirs): An Ajax check on the username field at registration - http://bit.ly/9aF0WD | 01:25 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Luke Robinson master * rc03bcc3 / (3 files in 3 dirs): | 01:25 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: use the FormHelper instead of the Auth system for the Ajax check | 01:25 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: on Username - http://bit.ly/az9kKr | 01:25 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Luke Robinson master * r240eb10 / www/extras/form/fieldCheck.js : call getWebguiProperty('extrasURL') - http://bit.ly/ckBI7A | 01:25 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Doug Bell master * rc8ad650 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : added changelog entry - http://bit.ly/9OFNuE | 01:29 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rcf43e5e / (6 files in 3 dirs): Reset the isDefault flag on core assets only, and provide a final way fix this crap once and for all. - http://bit.ly/9KUaFI | 02:32 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3113905 / (3 files): Prune duplicate code for post package work. - http://bit.ly/9GqmMQ | 02:32 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r84704d2 / (4 files): Fix syntax errors, and remove duplicate code from the skeleton. - http://bit.ly/9Lebud | 02:32 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfe31cc9 / (5 files in 3 dirs): Reset the isDefault flag on core assets only, and provide a final way fix this crap once and for all. - http://bit.ly/dBPDML | 02:37 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdf31846 / (2 files): Prune duplicate code for post package work. - http://bit.ly/ahh2Zb | 02:37 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2053d3e / (3 files): Fix syntax errors, and remove duplicate code from the skeleton. - http://bit.ly/dbNxFm | 02:37 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r35492ca / (3 files in 2 dirs): Remove old WebGUI 7.7 files - http://bit.ly/9yt3Vo | 02:37 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8f95101 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Allow the default Search root to be overridden by a form variable. Adds RFE #11460. - http://bit.ly/bPBryq | 03:09 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 16:25 |
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| +bartjol | morning scott | 16:30 |
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| +bartjol | cool, someone tried to sell us virtual servers | 17:59 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, you _need_ virtual servers | 17:59 |
| +perlDreamer | they are so much better than real servers | 18:00 |
| +bartjol | well, we need them allright, otherwise we haven't got anything to sell | 18:00 |
| +bartjol | oh, and a conscience question: which bathroom looks better, mine, or Tavis's? | 18:01 |
| +perlDreamer | I've never been in Tavis's bathroom, so I couldn't say | 18:02 |
| +perlDreamer | is he advertising it somewhere? | 18:02 |
| +perlDreamer | you bathroom is much better than any of mine, however | 18:02 |
| +bartjol | it was also on facebook | 18:02 |
| +bartjol | any of yours.... | 18:03 |
| +bartjol | patser | 18:03 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, I don't have a facebook account | 18:03 |
| +bartjol | your wife has | 18:03 |
| +bartjol | just hack into her account | 18:03 |
| +perlDreamer | afaik, hacking (even into a wife's account) is illegal | 18:04 |
| Getty | legal, illegal.... | 18:04 |
| Getty | "details" | 18:04 |
| +bartjol | smetails | 18:04 |
| +perlDreamer | legal, illegal | 18:04 |
| +perlDreamer | good, evil | 18:04 |
| +perlDreamer | matter, antimatter | 18:05 |
| +perlDreamer | polar opposites | 18:05 |
| Getty | jedi, sith | 18:05 |
| +perlDreamer | now, dead vs partially dead is about details | 18:05 |
| Getty | its not all black & white, be darth vader! | 18:05 |
| +perlDreamer | or should I say "mostly dead" | 18:05 |
| Getty | hey, i installed btw webgui now | 18:05 |
| +bartjol | mostly harmless | 18:05 |
| Getty | directly run into one big "security" problem | 18:05 |
| +bartjol | ah | 18:05 |
| Getty | about first time install | 18:05 |
| +bartjol | which is? | 18:05 |
| Getty | i'm a geek, so i used my own live site for the direct install, so.... must i talk further? | 18:06 |
| +bartjol | mmm | 18:06 |
| Getty | i had to make Allow/Deny stuff | 18:06 |
| Getty | to prevent others from reaching my vhost | 18:06 |
| Getty | the admin-network setting doesnt work for the install | 18:06 |
| +bartjol | in modproxy you mean? | 18:06 |
| Getty | with apache stuff, is that modproxy? dont know | 18:07 |
| +bartjol | yes | 18:07 |
| Getty | <Directory /> Deny.... | 18:07 |
| Getty | you know what i mean | 18:07 |
| +bartjol | yeah | 18:07 |
| Getty | i tried before with the admin-network setting in webgui | 18:07 |
| Getty | and tested | 18:07 |
| Getty | but this doesnt protect it | 18:07 |
| +bartjol | is that a default apache directive? | 18:09 |
| Getty | no no i mean in webgui.conf | 18:13 |
| Getty | there i can setup an admin-network-range | 18:13 |
| Getty | this is ignored for install, which is bad if you do it directly on a known site | 18:13 |
| +bartjol | well, if you set such a thing, you want it to work | 18:15 |
| +bartjol | I haven't used that option yet | 18:15 |
| +perlDreamer | except it doens't cover that | 18:15 |
| +perlDreamer | "admin network" is the network setting that allows/prevents people to go into Admin mode | 18:16 |
| +perlDreamer | it does not cover setup/install | 18:16 |
| +bartjol | ooh | 18:16 |
| +perlDreamer | but that sounds like a good feature to add | 18:16 |
| +perlDreamer | Getty, development for our next version is currently open, so if you want to file an RFE at webgui.org/rfe, it will be considered | 18:16 |
| +perlDreamer | of course, RFEs filed with patches are much more likely to get added more quickly | 18:17 |
| +bartjol | well, since that is always on a port 60834, we open that only in our firewall for ourselves, which might not be very save as default | 18:17 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, this is WebGUI install, not wreconsole | 18:17 |
| +bartjol | ah | 18:17 |
| +bartjol | I thought that used the same port, learned something again | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | no, all that stuff is served over port 80 via a content handler | 18:18 |
| +bartjol | ah | 18:18 |
| +bartjol | well, then it isn't a very save feature | 18:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | maybe we should consider it a bug | 18:19 |
| +perlDreamer | it seems low risk, since you have a limited window of opportunity | 18:20 |
| +bartjol | but I always do a "mail to all" when I install webgui | 18:20 |
| +bartjol | sorry | 18:20 |
| +bartjol | time of day I suppose | 18:21 |
| Getty | perlDreamer: i'm involved into many projects and go more and more into the "oh dudes i fill up your bugtracker all day so that you will hate me" dude, even tho i dont see much wrong on your side so far | 18:22 |
| Getty | the other "big problem" i see and which you probably already know is your <censored> admin interface | 18:22 |
| Getty | its totally confusing where to find what and if you edit something its different again, that is a bit chaotic | 18:23 |
| Getty | i think this has historical reasons ;) | 18:23 |
| Getty | but dudes, when i started this stuff now, i want to startup clean, or lets say, i want to setup step by step what i want, that premade site confuses me.... i worked with some commercial CMS with generally followed your concept of coordination for the data, so its all very clear i think when i get into the first steps | 18:25 |
| +perlDreamer | Getty, I'm not sure what you mean by "when you edit something it's different again" | 18:26 |
| +perlDreamer | and we never hate people who file bugs | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | if more people filed bugs, WebGUI would be better | 18:27 |
| +bartjol | perlDreamer loves to solve bugs, he eats them for breakfast | 18:27 |
| Getty | yeah and i will fill bugs, but i think its a good choice, even tho i got my own concepts running, WebGUI should be something that gives a "second leg" | 18:27 |
| Getty | hehehe | 18:27 |
| Getty | yummie | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | the only problem we've had in the past is what some people consider bugs are really enhancements | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | and if so, we move them to the RFE board instead of the bug board | 18:28 |
| Getty | oh i think i will make the definitions right at that point, doing that stuff long enough | 18:28 |
| Getty | but so tell me... how i would actually get my site empty and can start defining "first page"? or probably i could say what i want in final cause i dont need much | 18:28 |
| Getty | but i made so much contacts on the cebit and need definitly fast a good page best with a perl CMS so that i can also promote that i did it with WebGUI | 18:29 |
| Getty | someone else just suggested me FosWIKI and i dont want to go with kindergarten stuff, i'm enterprise (even for my homepage) hehe | 18:29 |
| +bartjol | in the settings you can define your homepage | 18:29 |
| +perlDreamer | to clear the default content, log in as an admin | 18:29 |
| +perlDreamer | turn on admin mode | 18:29 |
| +perlDreamer | go to Assets | 18:29 |
| +perlDreamer | go to the Root node | 18:29 |
| +perlDreamer | select the home page | 18:30 |
| +perlDreamer | and trash it | 18:30 |
| Getty | sounds like a plan | 18:30 |
| +perlDreamer | that will remove all the default content | 18:30 |
| +bartjol | and empty the trash, that's looks nice for your lineage | 18:30 |
| Getty | good :) | 18:30 |
| +perlDreamer | and frees up the URLs, too | 18:30 |
| +perlDreamer | good call bartjol | 18:30 |
| +bartjol | Getty: you will get stuck with those articles on each site you add | 18:30 |
| Getty | mh? | 18:31 |
| Getty | dont get that you wanna say with this? | 18:31 |
| Getty | oh | 18:31 |
| Getty | yes | 18:31 |
| +bartjol | ah, that every time you add a site | 18:31 |
| Getty | you mean its there on every startup | 18:31 |
| Getty | yeah logical :) | 18:31 |
| +bartjol | those articles will be there to be deleted | 18:31 |
| +bartjol | indeed :) | 18:31 |
| Getty | but i think i can bring on a WebGUI module which gives me the chance to say: hey i want my own startup definition, right? | 18:32 |
| +bartjol | sure you can make that | 18:32 |
| Getty | see, problem solved | 18:32 |
| Getty | technology owns! | 18:32 |
| +perlDreamer | you'd have to alter create.sql | 18:32 |
| +perlDreamer | so it's a little more complex than that | 18:32 |
| +bartjol | but after an upgrade the default file is overridden | 18:32 |
| Getty | i would actually modify the install procedure that way | 18:32 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be better to run a post-install script that does the dirty work for you | 18:32 |
| +bartjol | well, I considered that part as logical for a geek :P | 18:33 |
| +perlDreamer | removing the default content, and installing some other package | 18:33 |
| +bartjol | that would be a lovely script | 18:33 |
| Getty | well as professional i would consider as most luxury if i could define my own "install procedure way" which also automatically installs the DB tables without doing any create.sql insert by my own | 18:33 |
| Getty | yeah i'm the one with the evil wishes | 18:34 |
| +perlDreamer | no, other people have wished for that as well | 18:34 |
| Getty | can we actually do this with a module? | 18:34 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 18:34 |
| Getty | or would that go to deep? | 18:34 |
| Getty | so its a bug | 18:34 |
| Getty | lol | 18:34 |
| +perlDreamer | the default content is installed with create.sql | 18:34 |
| +perlDreamer | along with the default users, groups, templates, css, settings, etc. | 18:35 |
| * bartjol is thinking utility script | 18:35 | |
| Getty | yeah but i dont want to put the create.sql myself | 18:35 |
| Getty | i'm lazy | 18:35 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what the WRE is for :) | 18:35 |
| Getty | i want to give him database user/password and he does that for me | 18:35 |
| +perlDreamer | addsite.pl | 18:35 |
| +bartjol | he? JT? | 18:35 |
| Getty | yeah but i'm also offering it on my own facilities ;) | 18:35 |
| Getty | even tho i LOVE the idea of WRE | 18:36 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the tradeoff you make | 18:36 |
| Getty | its awesome | 18:36 |
| +perlDreamer | but I'm sure the WRE utilities could be changed to work outside the WRE | 18:37 |
| +bartjol | but goodday to you sirs | 18:38 |
| Getty | ok i will go to the bank now and then get some red bull | 18:38 |
| +perlDreamer | later, house-hacker | 18:38 |
| Getty | then i will try that with cleaning up the content | 18:38 |
| Getty | andstartup my site | 18:38 |
| +bartjol | someone elses house today | 18:38 |
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| Getty | perlDreamer: you stay here? ;) | 18:39 |
| * perlDreamer will be in and out all day long | 18:39 | |
| +perlDreamer | I go the gym, then work | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | eat lunch, then work | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | pick up the children from school, then work | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | fix dinner, then work | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | it's PWM for employment | 18:39 |
| Getty | i'm fat, no gym | 18:40 |
| Getty | i got a dude who cooks for me, eating at computer | 18:40 |
| Getty | i dont have kids | 18:40 |
| Getty | and i also work from home | 18:40 |
| Getty | so.. actually | 18:40 |
| Getty | why i stand up? oh yes toilet | 18:40 |
| +perlDreamer | and to get red bull | 18:40 |
| Getty | yes! | 18:40 |
| Getty | but thats flying ;) | 18:40 |
| Getty | so back on track | 18:52 |
| Getty | ok i startup the WebGUI again on my site | 18:52 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rf4f3f0c / (2 files in 2 dirs): Handle the edge case when a subscription group has been deleted, but the the Subscribable entry has not been cleaned up. Fixes bug #11456. - http://bit.ly/b9aiWr | 18:52 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf55acec / (2 files in 2 dirs): Handle the edge case when a subscription group has been deleted, but the the Subscribable entry has not been cleaned up. Fixes bug #11456. - http://bit.ly/aOVFUI | 18:53 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r58c25e3 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Fix changelog formatting. - http://bit.ly/daFOmB | 18:53 |
| Getty | now its suddenly german?! | 19:02 |
| Getty | i dont get it, when i installed it, i choosed german, then it was german, then it was suddenly english everything and now its german again... mh | 19:02 |
| +perlDreamer | Getty, language settings are user dependent | 19:03 |
| Getty | i just used one user so far | 19:04 |
| Getty | on the default install | 19:04 |
| Getty | what is the root node? isnt it "getting started"? | 19:04 |
| Getty | cause deleting that one wasnt any effect | 19:04 |
| +perlDreamer | no, go into the Admin Console and select Assets | 19:04 |
| Getty | yeah | 19:04 |
| Getty | i am there | 19:04 |
| +perlDreamer | On the top there's a crumb trail. Choose Root | 19:05 |
| Getty | AH! | 19:05 |
| Getty | a bit small ok get it | 19:05 |
| Getty | Home then delete ok | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | then Admin Console->Trash | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | then select and purge | 19:05 |
| Getty | wait | 19:05 |
| Getty | its still there | 19:05 |
| Getty | yeah tried it again | 19:06 |
| Getty | no effect | 19:06 |
| Getty | clicked on "Home" then Delete | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | check your log files | 19:06 |
| Getty | and he does something | 19:06 |
| Getty | you say that so easy mom | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry, standard user debug flow | 19:07 |
| Getty | webgui.log doesnt throws an error | 19:07 |
| Getty | i had to search where i have put the logfile ;) i did the install 2 days ago | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | it's the log level, it's set too high | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | the problem is that /home is set to be the default page for the site | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | create some other page for now, in the Settings, choose the other page | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | then it will let you delete the default content | 19:08 |
| Getty | ok | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | either that, or just delete all content below the home page | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | takes more clicks | 19:08 |
| Getty | ok i made a new page | 19:09 |
| Getty | but it doesnt have the "+" | 19:09 |
| Getty | i think that is what it needs, or? | 19:09 |
| Getty | ah no that is just there is something under it, ok | 19:09 |
| Getty | now i'M getting it | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | right, + means the asset has children | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | have you downloaded and read the WebGUI Starter guide? | 19:10 |
| Getty | http://www.raudssus.de/ :D | 19:11 |
| Getty | i want to ;) | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | that gives me a 403 error | 19:12 |
| Getty | oh yes wait | 19:12 |
| Getty | reload ;) | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | much better | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | now, go to the marketplace page on webgui.org and download a good looking style to install | 19:16 |
| * perlDreamer goes to the gym for punishment | 19:16 | |
| Getty | have fun | 19:16 |
| Getty | mh | 19:18 |
| Getty | where to upload it now | 19:18 |
| Getty | i always get error on extracting :-/ | 19:26 |
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| +perlDreamer | Getty, if the package is very old, it may not work on recent WebGUI's | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | also, it would be good to examine the log files to see what the problem was | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | a very common user problem is permissions on the upload directory | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | the upload directory and all children need to be writable by the apache process owner | 20:18 |
| Getty | i had it now with 2 themes | 20:21 |
| Getty | actually the only 2 themes which i like really | 20:21 |
| Getty | mh ok probably its just that | 20:21 |
| Getty | let me check log | 20:22 |
| Getty | yes it is that ;) | 20:22 |
| Getty | AH! wait! | 20:22 |
| Getty | he suggest wrong path | 20:22 |
| Getty | ok got it | 20:22 |
| Getty | damn it again | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | a whole series from Damian about vim scripting: http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2010/03/whats-the-mad-doctor-doing.html | 20:28 |
| Getty | i dont get this step: Click on the "class icon" of the page layout asset that is your home page. The Layout asset is very similar to a page and has an icon on the far left side of the edit toolbar that resembles a piece of paper. If you hover over this icon, it will say "Page Layout". This icon is called the "class icon" | 20:28 |
| Getty | i'm at the page layout asset, and edited it but i dont see that piece of paper icon? | 20:28 |
| +perlDreamer | It's a little obtuse | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | The class icon is displayed with the other toolbar icons | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | cut, copy, paste, delete, make shortcut, edit | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | if you actually edit it, you won't get the class icon with the drop down menu | 20:31 |
| +perlDreamer | that will be changed in WebGUI 8 | 20:31 |
| @preaction | did we fix the bug that puts "HASH(0xDEADBEEF)" : null, in the config files? | 20:37 |
| @preaction | looks like it's in the macros part | 20:38 |
| @preaction | there's also a "null" in the workflowActivities part | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | we did fix that bug | 20:39 |
| @preaction | you know, why the hell do we define which macros and workflow activities ARE in the config, when we should be defining the ones that AREN'T | 20:39 |
| +perlDreamer | it's just historical | 20:39 |
| Getty | i still cant see it, but i must reboot my PC now have to cleanup my mess of desk, i be back in 5 minutes, if you could have a screenshot which links to the icon it would be awesome LOL ;) | 20:40 |
| Getty | so bbl | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | if you want a "lean site", you'll exclude a lot | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | it's just another aspect of the same problem | 20:40 |
| @preaction | but most people don't want that, ever | 20:40 |
| @preaction | the most likely configuration is "everything installed" | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I wouldn't assume that | 20:41 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, which site are you seeing the bad config data? | 20:41 |
| @preaction | our config file has 715 lines in it | 20:41 |
| @preaction | this is for PIRG | 20:41 |
| @preaction | over SEVEN HUNDRED LINES in the config file | 20:41 |
| +perlDreamer | that's because they have a bunch of CDN stuff in it | 20:42 |
| @preaction | WebGUI.conf.original has over 1000 lines | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | the macros HASH bug was fixed in 7.8.14 | 20:42 |
| ckotil | 662 /data/WebGUI/etc/globalnoc.iu.edu.conf | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | that's with documentation | 20:42 |
| @preaction | the point being if this was a perl module, i'd be ripping it to shreds right now | 20:43 |
| @preaction | and to hell with debian's default editor of "nano"... | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | The Underground style from the bazaar is very nice | 20:48 |
| @preaction | don't thank me, thank the guy who designed it. i just put it into webgui | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | that's another bummer bout the bazaar, no attribution of authorship | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | at one point, wasn't there a "more by <username>" link? | 20:51 |
| Getty | re | 21:00 |
| Getty | btw are you guys actually interested bringing WebGUI to a (Free) Cloud Service? | 21:00 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI is already being used in a Cloud Service | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | people run it on EC2 | 21:01 |
| Getty | ah ok, the cloud service i talk about is making it very easy to manage anything, its really cool kodingen.com | 21:02 |
| Getty | its at the startup, but they have "drag & drop" install of stuff (like wordpress, drupal and so on) | 21:03 |
| Getty | i just imagined if there would be a drag&drop for WebGUI ;) | 21:03 |
| Getty | i already made a link to the developers and they already offered a dedicated server where we can "setup" the required setup and they can analyze it for integration into the cloud | 21:03 |
| Getty | even tho its not really a cloud service so far, more an open platform for web | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | hey, if it lets people use WebGUI, that's great | 21:07 |
| Getty | they wouldnt block it, the question is what is required | 21:09 |
| Getty | i think a standard user cant get WebGUI running on this env for easy | 21:09 |
| Getty | but we could tell them an easy way to make it one of the "one click installer" gadgets | 21:10 |
| Getty | dont know, i'm not a webgui dude | 21:10 |
| Getty | but they offered testing environments if we need | 21:10 |
| Getty | wait must restart my pc.... again..... | 21:10 |
| @preaction | WebGUI requires a shell and root access to install | 21:10 |
| @preaction | but to run, just needs the prereqs | 21:10 |
| Getty | yeah, lets talk about this in 2 minutes ;) | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, we need to do something about webguiupdate.pl | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | it lets people nuke their sites by skipping the upgrade steps | 21:19 |
| Getty | re | 21:19 |
| Getty | so.. where is this icon now? | 21:32 |
| Getty | i see the assets before me, so admin console => assets | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Getty, what is it you're trying to do? | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | Apply the style template to the site? | 21:33 |
| Getty | about using the page layout | 21:33 |
| Getty | yes | 21:33 |
| Getty | so i need to find that "class icon" | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, the class icon is right on the main page | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | on the left | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | next to the big red X icon | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | you don't need to go into the Admin Console to do this, although you can if you wish | 21:34 |
| Getty | i feel stupid, i dont know what you mean with main page | 21:34 |
| Getty | AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH | 21:35 |
| Getty | NOW i get it! | 21:35 |
| Getty | yes yes ok | 21:35 |
| Getty | no... | 21:35 |
| Getty | i mean | 21:35 |
| Getty | i see the icon now | 21:35 |
| Getty | but when i click i just get a dropdown | 21:35 |
| Getty | what function i must click now? | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Edit Branch | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | which instructions are you following? | 21:36 |
| -!- SDuensin [~Scott@mobile-166-137-139-141.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 21:36 | |
| Getty | Aha! | 21:36 |
| Getty | there it is | 21:36 |
| Getty | i used the on the wiki about adding theme | 21:36 |
| Getty | just need to reopen it now | 21:36 |
| Getty | but now i get it | 21:36 |
| Getty | its a bit confusing to find it | 21:36 |
| Getty | but now i get the concept more | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | you can access the same set of instructions from the Asset Manager | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | in the Asset manager, there are two labeled links | 21:37 |
| Getty | its on! :) http://www.raudssus.de/ | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | Edit, which allows you to edit the asset | 21:37 |
| Getty | yeah i was in that menu before, but didnt knew i was right | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | and More, which drops down the same menu as the class icon | 21:37 |
| Getty | the way bringing people to the "class icon" is probably a bit hard | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | it's faster to use the class icon | 21:37 |
| Getty | yeah but if you are new you think more of the admin interface | 21:37 |
| Getty | then really clicking into the page | 21:37 |
| Getty | if you want to change the complete layout | 21:38 |
| Getty | its not logical to click something on the "content" of the page to change the "complete page" | 21:38 |
| Getty | or lets say, that confused me ;) i was on the page searching the icon, but i searched it "at the border of the page" | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe the wiki needs some images to clarify it | 21:39 |
| Getty | or that, yes | 21:39 |
| Getty | definitly | 21:39 |
| Getty | ok......... now i see there is no blog content right out of the box | 21:41 |
| Getty | but i suggest there is some plugin right? :;) | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | to build a blog, you use the Collaboration System | 21:41 |
| Getty | or should i use some other content module which has the same resulting effect like a blog? | 21:41 |
| Getty | ok | 21:41 |
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| Getty | ok so just for understanding, i just go to the homepage and add the collaboration system? | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | then, configure it to use the Weblog templates | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not a beautiful blog, but it works | 21:42 |
| Getty | mh | 21:42 |
| Getty | i'm a bit confused | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | what is "mh"? | 21:42 |
| Getty | but ok i will first add it and then see | 21:42 |
| Getty | mh is an empty word | 21:42 |
| Getty | its like "mh" => i think about something, "mh!" => i got an idea, "mh?" => what you say? | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, like "hm" in english | 21:43 |
| Getty | yes | 21:43 |
| Getty | we german just do it just other around | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | we can forgive you for that. We owe you for landjaegerwurst | 21:44 |
| Getty | heheheh | 21:44 |
| Getty | and beer | 21:44 |
| Getty | without our high quality beer you all would be dead already! | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm more of a fan of the high quality wurst and baked goods, but since beer is made with grain we can call it good. | 21:51 |
| Getty | lol | 21:51 |
| Getty | i dont drink beer actually | 21:51 |
| +perlDreamer | you should, German bier is great! | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | especially when it's chasing down some bierwurst, kartoffelsalat und brotchen | 21:53 |
| Getty | i prefer vodka | 21:56 |
| Getty | made much business with vodka | 21:56 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, I think I'm going to move uiLevel from define to a property, since I want assets to be able to inherit the default uiLevel. | 22:03 |
| +perlDreamer | actually, that's another good delimiter between the two. | 22:04 |
| +perlDreamer | properties are inheritable, while defines are not | 22:04 |
| +perlDreamer | in any case, I'm off for lunch | 22:05 |
| Getty | can i get a more full fledge RTE? | 22:39 |
| +perlDreamer | Getty, the RTE to use is configurable in the Collaboration System | 22:41 |
| Getty | ok | 22:51 |
| Getty | so... the intropage of the collaboration system "s***", that "table" with the entries | 22:51 |
| Getty | can we make it more blogstyle? or just that he lists the entries? | 22:52 |
| Getty | no idea, something to customize | 22:52 |
| +perlDreamer | Getty, that would be another template :) | 22:53 |
| +perlDreamer | have a look at perlDreamer.com/blog | 22:53 |
| Getty | mh ok i dont wanna do anything for now | 22:53 |
| Getty | i got my first blog entry | 22:53 |
| Getty | cool | 22:53 |
| Getty | gimme that! | 22:53 |
| Getty | ;) | 22:53 |
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| +perlDreamer | it's just a default template with my site's style added. | 22:58 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra3614f5 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Move uiLevel from a define to a property so it can be inherited. - http://bit.ly/cp1QD2 | 22:59 |
| Getty | perlDreamer: and which default template? i mean i use the default collaboration system | 23:01 |
| Getty | is yours not the same? | 23:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | nope, it's a different template | 23:01 |
| +perlDreamer | try the "weblog" template | 23:01 |
| +perlDreamer | whoa! | 23:02 |
| +perlDreamer | wgd works with WebGUI8 | 23:02 |
| +perlDreamer | nice work, Haarg | 23:02 |
| +perlDreamer | well, to be specific, wgd ls root/import/collaboration worked fine | 23:03 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra3aeae9 / (8 files in 2 dirs): Continue change from define uiLevel to has uiLevel. | 23:07 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3b0e893 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Add T::C tests for File and Snippet. | 23:08 |
| Getty | oh man i feel a bit fixed | 23:16 |
| Getty | having own application framework and doing all stuff self normally, means always "taking back yourself" if you want to use another system | 23:16 |
| Getty | actually i just do it to promote perl, i need to use something from perl ;) | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | we all suffer from that | 23:17 |
| Getty | let me guess | 23:17 |
| Getty | cause i used this design now | 23:17 |
| Getty | having a sidebar | 23:17 |
| Getty | would be a more complex act | 23:17 |
| Getty | right? | 23:17 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be a different style template | 23:18 |
| +perlDreamer | it depends on what content you want in the sidebar | 23:18 |
| +perlDreamer | it it's a navigation (like used in Underground), it's fairly simple | 23:18 |
| +perlDreamer | if it's more complex, like an RSS feed, twitter stream, etc. | 23:19 |
| +perlDreamer | then it takes a little bit more work | 23:19 |
| Getty | mh | 23:19 |
| Getty | i dont know | 23:19 |
| Getty | i dont know what i want at all somehow now | 23:19 |
| +perlDreamer | if you want a different layout (two column, three column,), that's another template used by the Page Layout | 23:19 |
| Getty | being forced to make a webpage makes sick ;) i dont have a target | 23:19 |
| +perlDreamer | and no change to the Style at all | 23:20 |
| Getty | ah ok | 23:20 |
| Getty | so i can make it 2 col now? | 23:20 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 23:20 |
| +perlDreamer | Edit the Page Layout | 23:20 |
| +perlDreamer | Select the Display tab | 23:20 |
| Getty | ok wait | 23:20 |
| Getty | i think i dont do it | 23:20 |
| Getty | and try to make a footer stuff... or more menu points | 23:20 |
| Getty | dont know | 23:20 |
| Getty | nah i got my blog that is for first something | 23:20 |
| Getty | i still got a problem about your URLs... | 23:20 |
| Getty | i got my first "SEO-cry" | 23:21 |
| Getty | / and /root/home are the same | 23:21 |
| +perlDreamer | why is some bot crawling though the root node? | 23:22 |
| Getty | i mean, there is no redirect | 23:22 |
| Getty | one should redirect to the other | 23:22 |
| Getty | no matter which direction | 23:22 |
| Getty | cause there shouldnt be 2 urls with the same content | 23:22 |
| +perlDreamer | remember the default asset that we talked about earlier? | 23:22 |
| Getty | yeah | 23:22 |
| Getty | there i explicit didnt set an URL | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what causing that | 23:23 |
| Getty | aha? | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | I think not | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | there's another function | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | Not Found Page | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | the url /root/home does not exist | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | so WebGUI is redirecting you to the page it was told to in the Settings | 23:24 |
| Getty | mh | 23:24 |
| Getty | but the headline is linking to it | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | which headline? | 23:24 |
| Getty | http://www.raudssus.de/ | 23:24 |
| Getty | the headline links to /root/home | 23:24 |
| Getty | and /root/home shows the same page again | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | try this... | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | Admin, Turn Admin on... | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | Admin Console, Settings | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | wait | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | Admin, Turn Admin On | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | Edit the main page | 23:25 |
| +perlDreamer | change the URL to just home | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | now, Admin Console->Settings | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | Default Asset => home | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | now /home and / will be the same asset, and no root | 23:26 |
| Getty | in which tab is that? | 23:26 |
| +perlDreamer | 2nd or 3rd? | 23:27 |
| +perlDreamer | from the left | 23:27 |
| Getty | ah got it | 23:27 |
| Getty | Standard Homepage its translated | 23:27 |
| Getty | but still the problem | 23:29 |
| Getty | i think you dont get really what i mean | 23:29 |
| -!- vayde [~vayde@70-59-73-116.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:29 | |
| Getty | i did lots of SEO stuff in my last companies, actually it was so deep that i was puking all day caring about the details | 23:29 |
| Getty | one important detail is that one page is not allowed to have 2 URLs, that everything should be unique | 23:29 |
| Getty | so right now i got 2 URLs (/ and /home) which gives the right content | 23:30 |
| Getty | that "lowers" the value for google a little bit | 23:30 |
| +perlDreamer | so if a page works as /index.html and /, that's bad too? | 23:30 |
| Getty | yes | 23:30 |
| Getty | correct | 23:30 |
| Getty | you have to optimize that away | 23:30 |
| Getty | (if you want to be "TOP" SEO) | 23:30 |
| +perlDreamer | that's ridiculous | 23:30 |
| Getty | dont tell me ;) | 23:30 |
| Getty | i just tell what i was told | 23:30 |
| Getty | for example | 23:30 |
| Getty | you know ?page=1 ? | 23:30 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 23:30 |
| Getty | ?page=2 ?page=3 ?page=4 | 23:31 |
| Getty | there is alos the same | 23:31 |
| Getty | you got: /list and /list?page=1 which shows the same | 23:31 |
| Getty | so you have to code your list to NOT give a link to ?page=1 | 23:31 |
| Getty | instead always to /list | 23:31 |
| Getty | elsewhere => 2 urls same content | 23:31 |
| Getty | an SEO optimizer will critic that | 23:31 |
| Getty | so best would be if the internal stuff is really redirecting | 23:31 |
| Getty | for example the "not found" asset of course generates TONS of that | 23:32 |
| Getty | so you MUST redirect to the not found page actually | 23:32 |
| Getty | so technical i think its easy for WebGUI to optimize that in | 23:32 |
| Getty | it just needs to redirect to the asset | 23:32 |
| Getty | instead of loading it internal | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I think you'd be surprised... | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | but if you really want that, the Requests for Enhancement board is over at webgui.org/rfe | 23:33 |
| Getty | i actually dont care much, if i dont make a webgui "top seo" site so far, but i think i mention it for you guys cause its some stuff that an SEO company would tell the company that uses WebGUI and this makes bad reputation again :-/ | 23:34 |
| Getty | the people give companies 5000 EUR < or more to make a report that just is full of that shit | 23:34 |
| Getty | and the so called "double content" mistake is always "on top" | 23:34 |
| Getty | i will add it to the RFE so that its "listed | 23:35 |
| Getty | " | 23:35 |
| Getty | but i already see the 32746243278 comments who says "that is bullshit" | 23:35 |
| Getty | if i wouldnt have been in that mess, i would comment the same ;) | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | they won't do that | 23:35 |
| Getty | hehe ok | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | we have several people who sell WebGUI for SEO | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | they'll probably vote for it | 23:36 |
| Getty | wow a totally open registration? no approval link? no check? :) | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | nope, we trust you | 23:38 |
| Getty | http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11462 | 23:43 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r87c00d4 / (8 files in 3 dirs): appending to an attribute must quote the + - | 23:43 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbc71165 / (6 files): Add T::C tests for Redirect, RichEdit,Shortcut,Sku, Template and Wobject. - http://bit.ly/9apyrS | 23:44 |
| Getty | is it allowed to make negative comments about the webpage layout of webgui.org? ;) | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | sure, as long as they're accompanied with patches :D | 23:51 |
| Getty | hehehe | 23:51 |
| Getty | i could give you a really really cool hint... | 23:51 |
| Getty | there is a tool out there | 23:51 |
| Getty | which... lets say.... | 23:51 |
| Getty | "kicks ass" in making layouts | 23:52 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rffb7945 / (5 files in 3 dirs): Remove leftover definition sub stubs. - http://bit.ly/d1tKmJ | 23:52 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb60149d / (3 files in 2 dirs): Tests for Image, ZipArchive - http://bit.ly/bFPWyg | 23:52 |
| Getty | of course its not the tool for very flexible design and the special ones, but it gives out minimum layouts which are a bit nicer then this one you got ;) | 23:52 |
| Getty | its called Artisteer, you probably heard of | 23:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I hadn't heard of it, but I'm very perl centric | 23:53 |
| Getty | i integrated it somehow in my framework, so we can make artisteer templates, just copy the css/images and then define the "layout metastuff" in some config | 23:53 |
| Getty | its just a tool, you use it gets html and done, actually its even not free or opensource | 23:53 |
| Getty | but its just to good | 23:53 |
| Getty | but just a fast suggestion, actually i thought that if you support some much web, someone would have sponsored a better layout :) | 23:55 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdb60905 / (t/run_asset.t t/tests/Test/Asset/File/GalleryFile.pm): Add a test for GalleryFile - http://bit.ly/aJkUB2 | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Wed Mar 10 2010 | ||
| * perlDreamer will be back in a bit | 00:01 | |
| -!- perlDreamer [~colink@pool-98-108-135-77.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 00:01 | |
| @preaction | Bad Idea of the day: We should lock certain template namespaces to only allow Template Toolkit templates, paving the way for WebGUI to do TT only | 00:04 |
| Getty | dont do that | 00:06 |
| Getty | just a big small whatever warning, dont force yourself to TT | 00:07 |
| @preaction | why not? | 00:08 |
| @preaction | H::T is a horrible template engine, H::T::E even moreso | 00:08 |
| Getty | i just say that TT is not the end of the line | 00:08 |
| Getty | actually at the CeBIT we had the TT theme | 00:09 |
| @preaction | TT allows developers to give objects directly to template, forgoing the necessity for translation | 00:09 |
| Getty | and i found 2 other perl dudes who also see the problem that TT is mostly a template language for developers not for the designers | 00:09 |
| @preaction | i will agree there | 00:09 |
| Getty | oh in other languages that is normal for template engines, so actually its just that one step TT does right which others does right all the time | 00:09 |
| Getty | so you cant take this argument and say TT is the most awesome, there will be another one | 00:10 |
| @preaction | well, the other "standard" perl template engine is H::T, which is complete crap | 00:10 |
| Getty | right now i took one of those dudes and we want to make Template::Toolkit::Smarty, to make TT be parseable like Smarty | 00:10 |
| Getty | (to bring over PHP coder and also gain advantage of the knowledge that many template developer already invested in the smarty concept) | 00:10 |
| Getty | could be that this must be splitted up totally | 00:10 |
| Getty | i agree that anything beside TT in the perl world is crap | 00:11 |
| Getty | but i tell you that TT will not stay alone longtime | 00:11 |
| Getty | it will not attract people, as i said, its made from developers for developers | 00:11 |
| Getty | probably the only point the "stupid php coders" can do better, just cause they arent real developers | 00:11 |
| @preaction | looking at smarty's syntax, i'm not a fan. it doesn't seem much better than TT's syntax | 00:12 |
| Getty | there are slightly differences which just make it more easy for many people in that sector | 00:12 |
| Getty | checkout "Dwoo" | 00:12 |
| Getty | which is a next-step of smarty | 00:13 |
| @preaction | {section ... loop=$theloopvar} <- really? | 00:13 |
| Getty | LOL! | 00:13 |
| Getty | section is deprecated | 00:13 |
| Getty | its just historical there | 00:13 |
| Getty | still they are stupid php coders ;) | 00:13 |
| Getty | its not about the functions | 00:13 |
| @preaction | uh... so then why is it in the "Crash Course" | 00:13 |
| Getty | its about the syntax | 00:13 |
| Getty | cause they are lazy coders, the crash course was made very ver early and noone made a new one i guess | 00:14 |
| Getty | actually i dont have read the crash course at all | 00:14 |
| Getty | and i also dont care, smarty developers are very closed | 00:14 |
| Getty | the gag is, i can introduce smarty to a non-developer faster then TT (i actually had the chance to test this several times) | 00:14 |
| Getty | one big problem is the missing $ | 00:14 |
| Getty | $var is something non-developers understand more then just put in var, especially if they do the same for a command, it just confuses them | 00:15 |
| Getty | of course its "cool" | 00:15 |
| Getty | but just for a developer who anyway switch just the "internal brain parser" for templates | 00:15 |
| @preaction | okay, now i'm looking at Dwoo and it looks like TT with different characters | 00:15 |
| @preaction | sigils would be nice in TT, yes | 00:15 |
| Getty | yeah thats why we think it gets easy to make a TT with Smarty/Dwoo syntax | 00:15 |
| Getty | we just need that $ | 00:16 |
| Getty | that is what the other dude is working on | 00:16 |
| Getty | i personal HATE TT i must say | 00:16 |
| Getty | i worked with smarty now several years, and TT just S*** for me... | 00:16 |
| Getty | i see the power, i dont say its bad | 00:16 |
| @preaction | provided you just add sigils, that'd be perfect | 00:16 |
| Getty | its just bad for ME ;) | 00:16 |
| Getty | you could help him, or probably help us bringing that in | 00:16 |
| @preaction | well, i think a lot of times developers don't think about how their objects will be used in the template | 00:16 |
| Getty | actually on PHP the people use objects to massive | 00:17 |
| Getty | cause for example | 00:17 |
| Getty | there is one big problem with objects usage in template | 00:17 |
| @preaction | i can't replace H::T in webgui yet. it's an 8+1 thing, not an 8 thing | 00:17 |
| Getty | one very very big | 00:17 |
| Getty | template parsing cant have proper error handling | 00:17 |
| @preaction | well, obviously one can't have a template cause a side-effect, ever. never direct db access | 00:17 |
| Getty | so if your object triggers a DB call and the DB call fails it would be a very "fucked up" moment inside the template | 00:17 |
| @preaction | uh... why not? you shouldn't be able to do anything to CAUSE an error, that's the thing | 00:17 |
| Getty | yeah | 00:18 |
| Getty | but lets think in a bigger scale | 00:18 |
| Getty | you got 100 developers | 00:18 |
| @preaction | you should never be able to write to the DB, and reading should be through existing methods | 00:18 |
| Getty | and now you change a common function of an object | 00:18 |
| Getty | to use the DB | 00:18 |
| Getty | another coder might not know | 00:18 |
| Getty | and use that function of the object in template | 00:18 |
| @preaction | there's the wrong thing right there. you should probably be using an ORM | 00:18 |
| Getty | wait wait | 00:18 |
| Getty | forget ORM forget anything | 00:18 |
| Getty | replace DB with "otherServiceThatCouldCauseError" | 00:19 |
| Getty | its a general thing | 00:19 |
| Getty | the Object can do whatever the object wants todo | 00:19 |
| Getty | if you hang it into the template | 00:19 |
| Getty | you can never CONTROL that | 00:19 |
| @preaction | i understand, i do. laziness causes deferred errors | 00:19 |
| Getty | cause its job of the object | 00:19 |
| Getty | what would be cool | 00:19 |
| Getty | and perfect | 00:19 |
| Getty | is 2 objects | 00:19 |
| Getty | like you got one and if the object goes to template it gets converted | 00:19 |
| Getty | OR | 00:19 |
| Getty | you make a "switch" inside the object concept | 00:19 |
| Getty | i thought about both once | 00:19 |
| Getty | but both are a bit "crazy" | 00:19 |
| Getty | but it would be important to define a "rule" for that | 00:20 |
| Getty | so that this never can happen | 00:20 |
| Getty | "out of concept" | 00:20 |
| Getty | (beside someone breaks the concept) | 00:20 |
| Getty | if you just say "use objects in template" you cant prevent that problem | 00:20 |
| Getty | there must be a bit more of a ruleset for that | 00:20 |
| Getty | so that both sides (people who uses object just before the template and the people who uses it in template) never run into that error | 00:20 |
| @preaction | i've thought the same, most likely i'll have the Model objects have a method to tell the template which bits are available, which are not, etc... | 00:20 |
| Getty | one way | 00:20 |
| Getty | which is most easy | 00:21 |
| Getty | would be ->TemplateFunction() | 00:21 |
| Getty | so if you call: $obj->function() in template | 00:21 |
| Getty | it calls: $obj->template_function() | 00:21 |
| Getty | if its not there it calls ->function() | 00:21 |
| Getty | so you can "block" functions out | 00:21 |
| Getty | which would cause active action | 00:21 |
| Getty | or other around | 00:21 |
| Getty | you can deny that he search for ->function() | 00:21 |
| Getty | and you need to define what is exported | 00:21 |
| Getty | that was my smallest solution | 00:21 |
| Getty | so be very very careful about what you "propagate" | 00:23 |
| Getty | if you once start to push massivly on the object into template train | 00:23 |
| Getty | you cant stop it | 00:24 |
| Getty | it is like giving people PHP | 00:24 |
| Getty | more and more code goes into the template (or is called at template level) | 00:24 |
| @preaction | except for, as mentioned, templates will never be able to modify anything. a template on one page request cannot affect any other page request | 00:24 |
| @preaction | that's the rule | 00:24 |
| Getty | if you "just have object" inside the template | 00:25 |
| Getty | you cant prevent it | 00:25 |
| @preaction | getters, not setters | 00:25 |
| Getty | you cant prevent it | 00:25 |
| Getty | (sadly) | 00:25 |
| @preaction | it's a translated object, but translated automatically | 00:25 |
| Getty | yeah but then you can just call ->toArray() on all objects | 00:25 |
| Getty | that is what i do inside my framework, i dont assign objects (only "Text" objects) | 00:25 |
| -!- dionak [~dionak@97.66.185.250] has quit [Quit: dionak] | 00:25 | |
| @preaction | so yes, there is a translation to set up, a TT context or what-have-you, but the idea is that to the Developer, it's done automatically, and to the Designer, it just works | 00:26 |
| Getty | yes of course, but then its not more or less then arrays in the template | 00:26 |
| Getty | even tho, if you "think perl" its just a blessed hash ;) and this is an object so.. yes ok | 00:27 |
| Getty | if i think other around its more logical | 00:27 |
| Getty | it just needs a special way of objects | 00:27 |
| Getty | like XX::XX goes to XX::XX::Template | 00:27 |
| Getty | so that you can add custom function to the template object | 00:27 |
| Getty | if you dont have ::Template, then its just a hash | 00:27 |
| Getty | this would be something very acceptable in my eyes, and very powerful | 00:28 |
| Getty | if that was something you thought about | 00:28 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4beab18 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm : Fix uiLevel in Folder. - | 00:58 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rffe4e7f / (13 files in 4 dirs): fix uiLevel tests, and loading multiple sessions. - | 00:58 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: you were gone: any opinion on making certain template namespaces TT-only | 01:12 |
| +perlDreamer | why? | 01:12 |
| +perlDreamer | in 8, or 7? | 01:12 |
| @preaction | so we can do things in the templates that only TT allows | 01:12 |
| @preaction | in 8, for the Admin Console template | 01:12 |
| +perlDreamer | I had thought that the TT conversion was dropped for 8? | 01:13 |
| @preaction | it is | 01:13 |
| @preaction | that's why i want this, so I can make a new template that is TT only and use TT features | 01:13 |
| @preaction | and we can slowly move our templates to TT-only, and then finally remove the other engines | 01:14 |
| +perlDreamer | that sounds more painful than doing it before the release | 01:14 |
| @preaction | there are two "floating features" for the 8 cycle. TT and Auth | 01:14 |
| +perlDreamer | brb | 01:15 |
| @preaction | what about it sounds painful? i need dissenting opinions | 01:15 |
| @preaction | it is a little bit of work up-front, but it enables us to start making our new apps and templates TT-based, and then shove everything old into TT-land | 01:16 |
| +perlDreamer | so the plan would be to have new namespaces, that only TT templates could be placed into | 01:18 |
| @preaction | correct | 01:18 |
| +perlDreamer | and on every site, we're going to enable the TT plugin via templateParsers | 01:19 |
| @preaction | correct, TT would now be absolutely required to run WebGUI | 01:19 |
| @preaction | considering 8 as a transition period | 01:20 |
| @preaction | which is really what it is, and always has been | 01:20 |
| +perlDreamer | if I was a user, and you told me I had to learn two template systems for 2 years, I'd be frustrated | 01:20 |
| @preaction | just like 6 was, only hopefully not as chaotic | 01:20 |
| @preaction | yeah, that would be a down side | 01:20 |
| * perlDreamer opines for all or none | 01:21 | |
| @preaction | so is that the problem? our default templates are H::T and the cargo-culting is keeping us locked in? | 01:22 |
| +perlDreamer | no, doing a two-year transition on something difficult like a templating language | 01:22 |
| @preaction | so do it quickly like pulling off a band-aid | 01:23 |
| +perlDreamer | right, all, or none | 01:23 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a fairly good H::T translator out on the net, already | 01:25 |
| +perlDreamer | the missing piece is the variable translation | 01:25 |
| +perlDreamer | but I'm confident that since we know the namespace, and the user of the namespace that it can all be fixed, automatically | 01:26 |
| @frodwith | i thought the difficulty is that we have a huge legacy codebase of H::T templates that we don't want to convert | 01:26 |
| +perlDreamer | any custom template, yes | 01:27 |
| @preaction | we Do want, we don't have time for right now | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | right | 01:27 |
| @preaction | well, yes, custom templates as well | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | the core templates are easy | 01:27 |
| @frodwith | oh I see the difficulty | 01:27 |
| @frodwith | we'd have to at the very least provide an automated converter to people | 01:28 |
| @preaction | it's either this, or during 8.1, 8.2, 8.5 we make all the default templates into TT templates and then say "yeah, fix your templates cuz 9 will make TT only" | 01:28 |
| +perlDreamer | if we do that, I think we'll lose users by the droves | 01:28 |
| @preaction | i want to give them TT template examples or some INCENTIVE to migrate before we drop the hammer | 01:28 |
| +perlDreamer | the TT conversion alone is going to be difficult, but forcing them to use both at the same time? | 01:28 |
| +perlDreamer | it'll drive them nutso | 01:28 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4fa1e00 / (10 files in 2 dirs): Add Wobject tests. - | 01:30 |
| @preaction | well, for example we had the Shop migration in 7 | 01:31 |
| @preaction | and we're planning on the same for Auth in 8 | 01:31 |
| +perlDreamer | but that's all in 1 shot | 01:32 |
| +perlDreamer | not staged in pieces | 01:32 |
| +perlDreamer | we didn't part of Shop | 01:32 |
| +perlDreamer | then another part | 01:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and then a 3rd part | 01:32 |
| +perlDreamer | imo, people think about the templates as 1 chunk, not broken out by namespace | 01:32 |
| @preaction | right, but there are 100x more custom templates than there are custom shop or auth modules | 01:32 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 01:32 |
| +perlDreamer | undoubtedly | 01:33 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe it could be done in 2 chunks | 01:34 |
| +perlDreamer | admin console templates | 01:34 |
| +perlDreamer | and asset templates | 01:34 |
| +perlDreamer | but I don't think it can be done namespace by namespace | 01:34 |
| @preaction | right, but you're also saying that we shouldn't make the default set TT and still allow H::T | 01:34 |
| @preaction | in one shot | 01:34 |
| @preaction | this isn't something we got to figure out now, i just wanted to get to use some of the TT features. nobody changes the AC template, mainly because it's easy to break | 01:35 |
| @frodwith | it doesn't really matter what the default is, does it? | 01:35 |
| +perlDreamer | If I came across that way, I apologize. What I meant to object to was a long transition period between the 2. I think it should be one point release. | 01:35 |
| @frodwith | point is as long as we support H::T, our TT implentation must be crippled | 01:35 |
| @preaction | but you still feel that it could be an 8.x release | 01:36 |
| @preaction | yes, i'd be bypassing the WG::A::T::TemplateToolkit | 01:36 |
| +perlDreamer | sure, like 8.0.5, or 8.0.6, but not more than one point | 01:36 |
| +perlDreamer | the TT implementation will always be crippled, until we decide which path we're going to take | 01:36 |
| @preaction | well, it'd probably have to be a minor release, not a bugfix point | 01:37 |
| +perlDreamer | do we put logic in the template, or not? | 01:37 |
| @preaction | and Auth is still on the table for a minor release of its own | 01:37 |
| @preaction | "logic" is a misnomer, there's always logic in the template | 01:37 |
| @preaction | it's the policy of "no side effects" | 01:37 |
| @preaction | but even that... we allow Macros to have side effects :p | 01:37 |
| @frodwith | well, TT templates can happily munge data | 01:37 |
| @frodwith | H::T can't do much in that area. | 01:38 |
| @frodwith | so you have to mangle your template variables to make it happy | 01:38 |
| @preaction | and munging is fine, good even. anything in the template should not affect any other page request ever | 01:38 |
| @frodwith | if we threw out H::T support, we could stop mangling our template vars. | 01:38 |
| +perlDreamer | how are the template variables "mangled"? | 01:40 |
| @preaction | instead of having to make all the year, month, day, monthDay, dayOfWeek, etc... we could just give a Date object (or whatevz) | 01:42 |
| @preaction | we also have to translate from arrays into arrays of hashrefs, because that's all H::T can do | 01:42 |
| @frodwith | [ { key => 'foo', val => 'bar'}, { key => 'baz', val => 'qux' } ] instead of { 'foo' => 'bar', 'baz', 'qux' } | 01:42 |
| @frodwith | comes to mind | 01:42 |
| @preaction | it can't do hashes, or just normal arrays | 01:42 |
| @preaction | there's also more laziness we can do, instead of generating everything even if nobody ever uses it | 01:43 |
| @frodwith | not to mention the horrific things you have to do in H::T in that situation if you want to access something in there by its key | 01:43 |
| +perlDreamer | how many users do we have doing that? | 01:43 |
| @preaction | ah yes, the "field.noloop.<fieldname>" | 01:43 |
| @preaction | the DataForm does it everywhere | 01:43 |
| @preaction | Thingy also comes to mind | 01:44 |
| @frodwith | before I talked hDP into switching to TT for all their stuff, it was all over their stuff | 01:44 |
| @preaction | ooh, didn't know about that one | 01:44 |
| @frodwith | I mean, it's not like it takes too much time to compute that stuff, but it makes the code more complicated than it has to be. | 01:45 |
| +perlDreamer | and moves that code into the templates | 01:46 |
| +perlDreamer | where users have to deal with it | 01:46 |
| @frodwith | in what way? | 01:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think that's a good solution | 01:46 |
| @preaction | no, the code is still in the module, it just only gets evaluated when the template wants it | 01:46 |
| @preaction | but in any case: I will not be adding a namespace-locking to allow me to get around our current horrible template practices | 01:47 |
| @frodwith | the only reason we create the noloop crap and the arrays of hashes stuff is to get around H::T being unable to represent them. | 01:47 |
| @frodwith | you wouldn't have to include the logic in the templates, you'd just use the hashes directly | 01:47 |
| @frodwith | (or the arrays, or what-have-you) | 01:48 |
| +perlDreamer | if that's the extent of it, just variable access, that doesn't sound that bad | 01:48 |
| @preaction | http://gist.github.com/327301 <- here's an example based on WebGUIx::Form and editing assets | 01:48 |
| @frodwith | well, TT buys us some other stuff (being able to pass in coderefs or locked down blessed objects, which is very handy) | 01:49 |
| @preaction | forms <- all the forms. forms.edit_asset <- the asset edit form | 01:49 |
| @frodwith | none of which we can use while we support H::T because of lowest-common-denominator. | 01:49 |
| @frodwith | here's a stupid idea: we could provide a set of backcompat variables for the core classes that we'd like to change, as mixins or roles or something, and tell everyone to change them because those are going to go out of date in X point releases | 01:51 |
| @frodwith | and then eventually just drop them | 01:51 |
| @frodwith | or stop distributing them anyways | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | if time is important, I don't think we should spend it refactoring the code into addons that we're just going to drop. | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | we should spend that time doing translation | 01:52 |
| @preaction | yeah, if we're really gonna shake up the core of WebGUI in 8+1, we may not even have a translation path at all | 01:53 |
| @frodwith | i guess no one is forced to upgrade until they can fix their templates | 01:53 |
| +perlDreamer | we've always helped people with that in the past | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | would you want to hand edit 100's of templates? | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | or even dozens? | 01:55 |
| @frodwith | no, ugh. | 01:55 |
| @preaction | and we'll help them in the future, but depending on how drastic the internal changes it may be difficult | 01:55 |
| @frodwith | well. what about this: mechanically translate everything to TT without changing any of the variables in one release | 01:56 |
| +perlDreamer | that sounds good | 01:56 |
| @frodwith | and drop support for H::T. that gets us all using TT at least. | 01:56 |
| +perlDreamer | we can always make individual changes in other releases | 01:56 |
| @frodwith | yes. | 01:56 |
| +perlDreamer | and do it one at a time. DataForm, Thingy, Profile, etc | 01:56 |
| +perlDreamer | just one at a time, and all in the same system | 01:56 |
| @frodwith | *nod* | 01:56 |
| +perlDreamer | but that's back to what preaction said that we don't have the time to do | 01:57 |
| @frodwith | mechanical translation from H::T to TT is automatable | 01:57 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfe5085f / (3 files in 2 dirs): Tests for Gallery and HttpProxy - http://bit.ly/9Gsf8s | 01:58 |
| @frodwith | and we could provide a service for people to do their custom templates with, as well. | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | when you throw in the variable translation (taking out the dots) it becomes more difficult | 01:58 |
| @preaction | well, we can have 8.1 do the TT conversion, 8.2 do CS, Thingy, DataForm, 8.3 do Layout, Article, etc..., 8.4 do ..., 8.5 ... etc... | 01:58 |
| @frodwith | I have a script that managed it for all of HDP's templates that works remarkably well | 01:58 |
| @frodwith | with just regexes | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | then it sounds like we're done :) | 01:58 |
| @frodwith | I'm sure there's cases where it breaks, but generally speaking | 01:59 |
| +perlDreamer | wait a sec | 01:59 |
| @preaction | but that still leaves me at using H::T for the new AC templates | 01:59 |
| +perlDreamer | we've only been talking about two of the axes | 01:59 |
| +perlDreamer | we also need to handle H::T::Expr | 01:59 |
| @frodwith | none of the core templates rely on that little bastard, do they? | 01:59 |
| +perlDreamer | no, but it's a core plugin that we've encouraged people to use in the past | 02:00 |
| @preaction | no, the AC template is one of those "Hyre Be Dragyns" one | 02:00 |
| @preaction | ohh, hte | 02:00 |
| @frodwith | ah, so lots of people use it, meaning we'd want to provide a mechanical translation for that as well | 02:00 |
| +perlDreamer | that was the original goal, complete mechanical translation of H::T{,::E} to T::T with variable name changes | 02:00 |
| @frodwith | that doesn't sound too technically difficult, you could get it perfect if you wrote a real parser | 02:01 |
| @frodwith | variable renaming is just dots to underscores, right? | 02:01 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I think you could design a new AC template using TT, but it would have to use the existing variable set, or be prepared to upgrade custom templates (SwiftySite, etc.) | 02:01 |
| +perlDreamer | frodwith, I think so | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | i was going to use the list of template variables in the Help/ to figure out what needed to be translated, for efficiency | 02:02 |
| @preaction | the new AC template is not compatible with the old, at all | 02:02 |
| @frodwith | that's where you were going with namespace locking, eh preaction? | 02:02 |
| @preaction | yes | 02:02 |
| @frodwith | Can't use H::T for AC templates | 02:03 |
| @preaction | exactly | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | we've done things like that in the past, haven't we? | 02:03 |
| * perlDreamer looks in the gotchas | 02:03 | |
| @frodwith | well, if first release of 8 was TT only, here's a translator for your old templates | 02:03 |
| @frodwith | you could do AC temnplates in whatever style you pleased | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | check out the note in 7.7. | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | 7.7.5 | 02:04 |
| @frodwith | since new AC isn't backwards compatible with the old one at all | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | in 7.6.4, we deleted all custom profile templates in favor of the new Account system | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | in 7.6.3 we reworked the SC, and migrated templates | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | 7.5.0 changed the Event templates and didn't translate | 02:06 |
| @frodwith | and there's expectation for some breakage in a new major rev | 02:07 |
| @frodwith | even outside of the history | 02:07 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, I think you can nuke the old AC templates | 02:07 |
| +perlDreamer | just be sure to update the template variable help | 02:07 |
| +perlDreamer | frodwith, re breakage, I submit the WebGUI 6.x series | 02:08 |
| * preaction vomits uncontrollably at the mention of 6.x | 02:08 | |
| * frodwith hasn't been around that long, thank God. | 02:08 | |
| +perlDreamer | where we lost a large fraction of developers | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | and I don't know how many customers | 02:08 |
| @preaction | neither was I, but i've dealt with the fallout | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | and the difficulty in upgrading 5.x to 7.x sites | 02:09 |
| @frodwith | well there's -some- breakage and there's breaking everything gratuitously | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | totally | 02:09 |
| @preaction | well, we're also stating outright exactly what is going to break and how | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe all of my thinking isn't as generous as I'd like to believe | 02:09 |
| +perlDreamer | just not wanting to have to get stuck doing it myself | 02:10 |
| @frodwith | do we have a lot of folks customizing the AC extensively? | 02:10 |
| @frodwith | he asked curiously? | 02:10 |
| @preaction | no, they shouldn't ever. it's not really possible without breaking things | 02:10 |
| @preaction | the new one will be less fickle than that | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I wouldn't doubt that AMH does | 02:11 |
| @frodwith | who? | 02:11 |
| @preaction | but that's because the template will be loaded once, then everything will happen inside of it | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | AlphaMegaHosting | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | the SwiftySite folks | 02:11 |
| @frodwith | oh | 02:11 |
| @preaction | they did the SwitfySite | 02:11 |
| @preaction | eah | 02:11 |
| * preaction is slow | 02:11 | |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: why not break out the partner's list and ask? | 02:11 |
| @frodwith | yes, probably. but they're also really smart. | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | muy | 02:11 |
| @preaction | no, it's not an "ask" thing. it's happening. no matter how i have to do it the AC is being rebuilt | 02:11 |
| @preaction | they've all known since last year | 02:12 |
| @preaction | there were the specs released and everything | 02:12 |
| @frodwith | oh, preaction. So young, so naive. | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | true, but at that point they also thought we were doing a full automated translation | 02:12 |
| @frodwith | "If I warn them a year ahead of time, they can't possibly complain!" | 02:12 |
| @preaction | uh... to what? | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | H::T{,::E} to T::T | 02:12 |
| @preaction | frodwith: not that, but there's no "asking". they were told, i don't ask anymore | 02:13 |
| @preaction | ah, well, that... is just unfortunate | 02:13 |
| @preaction | complaints can be directed to the nearest brick wall, which will be more responsive than I | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we need to give the community at large an update in changes to plans? | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | to remind and reset expectations? | 02:13 |
| @frodwith | that's probably the least customized set of templates, I'd imagine | 02:13 |
| @preaction | perhaps a "State of Eight"? | 02:13 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 02:14 |
| +perlDreamer | also, isn't it WUC announcement time? | 02:14 |
| @frodwith | but then, I haven't worked with most of our users. | 02:14 |
| * perlDreamer hits the showers, I'll backlog later | 02:14 | |
| @preaction | wait, i think one of our customers changed the blue in the AC to the older blue because people didn't like the new, darker blue | 02:14 |
| @frodwith | that's not even a template change, is it? | 02:15 |
| @frodwith | just css? | 02:15 |
| @preaction | right, but the only way to get to it is the template | 02:21 |
| @preaction | yay! | 02:21 |
| +perlDreamer | just wait til TWG gets their hands on it | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | they'll fix it | 02:43 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8806883 / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.8.13-7.9.0.pl : Fix a synax error in the upgrade file. - http://bit.ly/9s2ArF | 02:47 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, I could use some help with uft8 issues in 7.9 | 03:01 |
| +perlDreamer | going to see if I can duplicate it with the WRE | 03:01 |
| +perlDreamer | but on Ubuntu, we added a new test failure this week | 03:01 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8e253e5 / t/Content/SiteIndex.t : Remove unused diagnostics. - http://bit.ly/bzWKIF | 04:46 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4df0c51 / t/Content/Setup.t : Finish clean-up testing. - http://bit.ly/caXmDg | 04:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | I think it's funny that the Apache request object has an assbackwards method | 05:08 |
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| +perlDreamer | SynQ_: do you have your new car? | 05:22 |
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| elnino | since when was there a separate login template? - is there a way for it just to defaul to the site's template? | 06:19 |
| elnino | oh. they really messed this up. I see.. | 06:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | unless there are any objections from the floor, I'm going to release 7.9.0 | 07:01 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7b40c8b / (3 files in 2 dirs): fix upgrade script, and SQL scripts. - http://bit.ly/bK82PX | 07:08 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ref81e69 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.0 release. - http://bit.ly/9GW8wH | 07:08 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reccf6a5 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.1 development. - http://bit.ly/9gKUSq | 07:45 |
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| -!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.8.14-stable | 7.9.0-beta | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com | 08:29 | |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 16:23 |
| +bartjol | morning | 16:36 |
| +bartjol | SDuensin: do you perhaps know where I could have found that the 7.8.13->14 upgrade wasn't very wise to do, if I want to go beta? | 16:40 |
| +bartjol | not that I didn't manage offcourse | 16:41 |
| +bartjol | but it takes more troubles | 16:41 |
| SDuensin | No idea bud. I think going beta at any time is trouble. | 16:41 |
| +bartjol | well, it is only for my test server | 16:41 |
| +bartjol | so I know what problems to expect later | 16:42 |
| +bartjol | and become less of a problem | 16:42 |
| +bartjol | pro-active error making :) | 16:42 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 16:42 |
| * SDuensin has still been too lazy to even get to 7.8. | 16:42 | |
| +bartjol | Ah, I wanted that awesome language features | 16:43 |
| +bartjol | the guy that made those must be a superhero | 16:43 |
| SDuensin | Other than English, I only speak programming languages. | 16:43 |
| SDuensin | :-P | 16:43 |
| +bartjol | ah, but you can practise to speak webgui in 4 languages, not very convenient in bars... | 16:44 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 16:45 |
| +bartjol | hey baby, Enter the attribute that should be used for each record in LDAP to uniquely identify a user. This field is used for auto creating user accounts for users already in your LDAP repository when they attempt to log in and for finding users who sign up for the site via the anonymous registration feature if it is enabled. In almost all cases this attribute is 'dn' and should be entered as such. | 16:46 |
| +bartjol | nope, not a very catchy opening phrase | 16:46 |
| SDuensin | Yea, but if she understands it - keep her! | 16:47 |
| ckotil | heh | 16:47 |
| -!- Diggy [~dyioulos@65.105.102.162.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #webgui | 16:48 | |
| Diggy | hi, all | 16:48 |
| SDuensin | Hey Diggy | 16:49 |
| Diggy | a few weeks ago, i got on the channel to ask about plans for a new VM version of webgui | 16:49 |
| Diggy | i've had problems upgrading my VM version | 16:50 |
| * SDuensin remembers | 16:50 | |
| * bartjol not | 16:50 | |
| Diggy | some kind soul on the channel suggested upgrading to v. 7.6.35 first | 16:51 |
| Diggy | today i'm trying that, and have run into problems | 16:51 |
| +bartjol | what kind? | 16:51 |
| +bartjol | what version are/were you at before? | 16:52 |
| Diggy | get through the upgrade process, but when firing off spectre.pl --daemon, got the following: | 16:52 |
| Diggy | "Use of uninitialized value $pidFileName in -e at spectre.pl line 104. No pidfile specified in spectre.conf" | 16:53 |
| Diggy | huh? | 16:53 |
| SDuensin | Yea. That's actually a known issue. | 16:53 |
| Diggy | can i fix? | 16:53 |
| SDuensin | You need to find the conf file for it and add that line. | 16:53 |
| * SDuensin doesn't remember offhand where it is. Will try and find it! | 16:53 | |
| +bartjol | /data/WebGUI/etc | 16:54 |
| +bartjol | for the conf file | 16:54 |
| Diggy | btw, going from v. 7.6.20 to v 7.6.35 | 16:54 |
| +bartjol | and WebGUI must be able to write where you put the pid file | 16:54 |
| +bartjol | the webgui user that is | 16:54 |
| SDuensin | Yea. Open /data/WebGUI/etc/spectre.conf and add a line... | 16:55 |
| +bartjol | maybe root writes it | 16:55 |
| SDuensin | The last line in mine prior to the new one is "ignoreEnvProxy". Put a comma at the end of that line... | 16:55 |
| SDuensin | On the next line, put: | 16:55 |
| SDuensin | "pidFile" : "/tmp/spectre.pid" | 16:55 |
| SDuensin | The last line in the file should just be a closing brace: } | 16:56 |
| Diggy | no, WebGUI writes to it | 16:56 |
| Diggy | beautiful, that worked! | 16:57 |
| Diggy | thanks so much | 16:58 |
| * SDuensin cheers! | 16:58 | |
| +bartjol | we are awesome | 16:58 |
| SDuensin | Our pleasure. | 16:58 |
| Diggy | now, can i upgrade 7.6.35 to the very latest? | 16:58 |
| Diggy | and you a r awesome! | 16:58 |
| +bartjol | well there is at least a stop at 7.7.33 | 16:58 |
| SDuensin | I think so. Might want to snapshot that VM first. :-) | 16:58 |
| Diggy | ok. any gotchas? | 16:59 |
| +bartjol | probably | 16:59 |
| SDuensin | OH! I misread that! 7.6.x to latest, no! What bartjol said. | 16:59 |
| Diggy | great ;-( | 16:59 |
| +bartjol | look in github at 7.7.33 | 16:59 |
| Diggy | ok. thanks for the tip on snapshotting the vm. didn't think of that :-0 | 17:00 |
| +bartjol | http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/blob/webgui-7.7/docs/gotcha.txt | 17:00 |
| Diggy | will do. this is a giant step for me-kind, tho | 17:00 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 17:01 |
| SDuensin | WebGUI is worth the effort. | 17:01 |
| Diggy | i agree! that's why i've been so bummed at my inability to upgrade | 17:01 |
| +bartjol | oh, i see that in that gotcha it only goes to 7.6.11 | 17:01 |
| +bartjol | so there'll be an overlap | 17:01 |
| Diggy | i do like the rapid development afforded by the vm | 17:02 |
| Diggy | i don't understand bartjol's point | 17:02 |
| +bartjol | that there will be some steps that you've already taken | 17:03 |
| +bartjol | in that gotcha | 17:03 |
| Diggy | so, those are behind me then? | 17:03 |
| +bartjol | yeah, but only partially | 17:03 |
| +bartjol | so get the 7.6.35 and 7.7.33 gotchas next to each other and compare | 17:04 |
| * ckotil takes note. | 17:04 | |
| ckotil | im at 7.6.35 | 17:04 |
| ckotil | been stuck for a while | 17:04 |
| Diggy | looking at gotchas for 7.7, i see that a fair number of perl mods have changed/are required | 17:06 |
| Diggy | scary, ew scary :-) | 17:07 |
| +bartjol | we've heard some problems about testEnvironment not installing modules probably | 17:07 |
| +bartjol | so manual might be better | 17:07 |
| SDuensin | Really, bartjol ? | 17:08 |
| +bartjol | yeah | 17:08 |
| +bartjol | afraid so | 17:08 |
| +bartjol | some forum posts I believe | 17:08 |
| SDuensin | :-/ | 17:08 |
| +bartjol | not sure, maybe that is for specific wre buiilds | 17:08 |
| Diggy | erm, does that mean that if i do a manual install 0f 7.7.33, that testEnvironment wiil fetch the proper modules (sorry if that's a dumb*ssed question) | 17:09 |
| +bartjol | it should | 17:10 |
| Diggy | i might as well give it a rip | 17:10 |
| +bartjol | but you have to run it :P | 17:10 |
| Diggy | ok | 17:10 |
| +bartjol | if it failes, switch to manual | 17:10 |
| Diggy | uh, sorry again, i don't understand. i'm prepared to do a manual install of 7.7.33 | 17:11 |
| +bartjol | no, manual perl module installation | 17:11 |
| Diggy | yeah, of course | 17:11 |
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| SDuensin | Just try it and see what happens. If it doesn't work, we can help you with cpan. | 17:12 |
| Diggy | hopefully, Dag repo has them. CPAN can be a PITA at times | 17:12 |
| Diggy | appreciate the offer | 17:12 |
| SDuensin | Dag? | 17:12 |
| Diggy | yeah. well known repo for CentOS/RHEL packages | 17:13 |
| Diggy | aka rpmforge | 17:13 |
| Diggy | you could look it up :-) | 17:14 |
| +bartjol | oh, the build-essentials package is essential for debian | 17:14 |
| SDuensin | Oh. I don't do RPM. :-) | 17:14 |
| +bartjol | for the make program | 17:14 |
| Diggy | ah. well, the webgui vm appears to be built on CentOS 5 | 17:14 |
| +bartjol | ah, I don't have any routine with that | 17:16 |
| Diggy | a repo RPM is available from the repository. it creates the repo file needed for yum to get to Dag repo | 17:17 |
| Diggy | then "yum install pkgname" | 17:17 |
| Diggy | or,, grab individual perl modules (if available) manually, and use rpm to install | 17:18 |
| Diggy | quite simple, really | 17:18 |
| Diggy | ok, so i've got the 7.7.33 tarball | 17:19 |
| Diggy | ready to try manual install (cheers and encouragement :-) ?) | 17:20 |
| SDuensin | Is that the next stop point? | 17:21 |
| * SDuensin doesn't know. | 17:21 | |
| Diggy | you mean, is 7.7.33 the next stop point? from what bartjol said above, it is | 17:22 |
| * bartjol thinks so | 17:22 | |
| SDuensin | Then rock on! You're very safe with a snapshot. Remember the snapshot? :-) | 17:22 |
| +bartjol | if there isn't anything else in the gotcha | 17:22 |
| Diggy | snapshotting as we speak | 17:25 |
| +bartjol | hey patspam, wre 0.9.4 is being copied | 17:26 |
| SDuensin | Oh no! That means more upgrades! :-P | 17:27 |
| +patspam | bartjol++ | 17:28 |
| +bartjol | SDuensin: that is a trial version, only for nice people :P | 17:28 |
| SDuensin | Oh, I won't be nice then. :-D | 17:28 |
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| @Haarg | patspam, what kind of condition is your plack webgui in? i've been messing with plack a bit recently and was thinking about spending some spare time on that. | 17:38 |
| +patspam | hey haarg | 17:38 |
| +patspam | I started playing with it again the other day | 17:38 |
| @Haarg | i looked around at the code a bit but wasn't sure how close to fully working it was | 17:38 |
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| +patspam | the Plack::Request api changed, so the old version was broken | 17:38 |
| +patspam | but Plack::Request is stable now | 17:38 |
| +patspam | for PlebGUI I localised the changes as much as possible | 17:39 |
| +patspam | most of wG still thought it was using Apache2::Request etc.. | 17:40 |
| +patspam | for wg8 we should rip out a lot more of the guts | 17:40 |
| @Haarg | yeah, i gathered there was a lot of compatibility code which we will hopefully do away with | 17:40 |
| +patspam | it's going to be mostly straight forward | 17:40 |
| +patspam | the only time consuming part I found was trying to find documentation on what the APR methods do, to try to map them to equivalent Plack::Request methods | 17:41 |
| -!- perlDreamer [~colink@pool-98-108-135-77.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui | 17:42 | |
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| +patspam | I'll push up what I've done recently | 17:42 |
| +patspam | the other thing is | 17:44 |
| +bartjol | for next time, where is it announced that there will be an upgrade script from stable to the first beta, I can manage to get it done easily, but I do have to read the scripts to see what is already done | 17:44 |
| +patspam | plebgui was branched off 7.8.1 | 17:44 |
| @Haarg | luckily most of the large scale webgui 8 changes have been in assets so merging shouldn't prove too difficult | 17:45 |
| Diggy | update - d*mn CPAN barfed! --> "Install of CSS::Minifier::XS failed!" | 17:45 |
| Diggy | shall i try to install from CPAN shell with "force"? | 17:46 |
| SDuensin | Be nice about it first. :-) | 17:46 |
| @Haarg | was that in the CPAN client or through testEnvironment? | 17:47 |
| Diggy | yes (sorry for the swearing :-) - sanity thing | 17:47 |
| SDuensin | "Tension breaker! Had to be done!" | 17:47 |
| Diggy | oh, sorry, testEnvironment | 17:47 |
| Diggy | true dat | 17:48 |
| @Haarg | frodwith, i should probably file a bug for it but the tests for POE::Component::Server::PSGI seem to fail on windows | 17:48 |
| @Haarg | try installing it with the CPAN shell, and if it fails pastebin the results | 17:48 |
| Diggy | ok, trying now | 17:49 |
| Diggy | eek. first CSS::Minifier::XS u=install barfed because YAML wasn't installed. did that. | 17:53 |
| Diggy | then it barfed for some other reason. see pastebin/ieAzYujw | 17:54 |
| @Haarg | you have an actual link i can use? | 17:57 |
| @Haarg | either that or it didn't post correctly | 17:58 |
| Diggy | sorry about that. try freebsd.pastebin.com/rVsKFfA9 | 18:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | you don't have a c compiler | 18:02 |
| Diggy | really | 18:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | what distro are you on | 18:03 |
| SDuensin | MrHairgrease - It's the WebGUI VM. | 18:03 |
| SDuensin | CENTOS | 18:03 |
| Diggy | CentOS 5.x. This is the WebGUI-provided VM | 18:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 18:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | i see | 18:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | you can try 'which cc' | 18:04 |
| +MrHairgrease | but that'll prolly tell you you don't have one | 18:04 |
| Diggy | i note that gcc is not install. will do that now and see if it helps | 18:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | yup | 18:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | that would help =) | 18:05 |
| Diggy | i'm so exited | 18:05 |
| Diggy | ok, a little exited | 18:05 |
| +bartjol | i just can't hide it | 18:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | you can from me bart | 18:05 |
| Diggy | those'd make snappy tune lyrics :-) | 18:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | biertje baidewai? | 18:06 |
| +bartjol | njou, dasj lekkah | 18:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | oki hang on | 18:06 |
| Diggy | just out of curiosity, what language is that? | 18:07 |
| +bartjol | very terrible dutch | 18:07 |
| Diggy | i knew that ... no | 18:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | terrible indeed... | 18:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | but then again it's passed 5 so who can blame us | 18:08 |
| Diggy | i wouldn't know terrible dutch from good dutch, so i'm impressed :-) | 18:09 |
| +bartjol | yeah, we speak it fluently | 18:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | Most Dutch people don't know the difference either | 18:09 |
| Diggy | ok, gcc is installed. should i try installing CSS::Minifier::XS via CPAN shell, or try testEnvironment again | 18:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | hey perlDreamer: remember those Moose attribute problems I had? | 18:10 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 18:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | I made a moosex trait for it | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | sweet | 18:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://github.com/martink/moosex-slaveattribute/blob/master/lib/MooseX/SlaveAttribute.pm | 18:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | Moose is awesome | 18:11 |
| Diggy | mint, CSS::Minifier::XS installed. now, shoudl i run testEnvironment again? | 18:12 |
| Getty | Moose owns | 18:12 |
| Getty | its the best method to bring java dudes to perl ;) | 18:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | Diggy yes | 18:13 |
| Diggy | and leave the poor moose alone! (i couldn't resist) | 18:13 |
| +MrHairgrease | Getty, I don't think Java dudes can handle the dynamic sweetness that is perl =) | 18:13 |
| Getty | hehe they can, they can | 18:13 |
| Getty | its just that they didnt know about it ;) | 18:13 |
| Getty | but there are some that dont | 18:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | Diggy, you have mooses enough in Norway | 18:14 |
| Diggy | I'm north american. plenty here, too | 18:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | what's the pluar of Moose anyway? Meese? | 18:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | Oh, my bad | 18:15 |
| SDuensin | Moosi | 18:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | you're connected to a freenode server in Olso | 18:15 |
| Diggy | moosi | 18:15 |
| Diggy | the world is flat! | 18:15 |
| +MrHairgrease | no | 18:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | the world is round... | 18:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | ...like a pancake | 18:16 |
| Diggy | hey, ur helping me, so i won't argue the point :-) | 18:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | hehe | 18:16 |
| SDuensin | Smart lad. | 18:17 |
| Diggy | mama didn't raise any fools | 18:18 |
| Diggy | gonna step away for a cig (don't judge me) while CPAN does its thing | 18:21 |
| SDuensin | JUDGEMENT COMEITH! | 18:21 |
| Diggy | hey, it's the opiate of the masses | 18:21 |
| SDuensin | My is coffee. | 18:22 |
| +perlDreamer | My wife is in school to be a nurse. | 18:23 |
| +perlDreamer | This term she is doing oncology (cancer treatment) | 18:23 |
| +perlDreamer | all of her patients are smokers or ex-smokers | 18:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCZPPGlVS6s | 18:23 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWXbVsMkz1U | 18:25 |
| Diggy | i said "don't judge me", didn't i? :-) | 18:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm not judging anyone | 18:28 |
| +bartjol | MrHairgrease has smoke coming from every orifice of his body | 18:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | Funny, never noticed that | 18:31 |
| +bartjol | well, that invisible smoke yesterday almost killed Roberto and me | 18:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | hehe | 18:32 |
| +bartjol | roti, yeah right, Colin Powell has pictures of you! | 18:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | hmmm, roti... | 18:33 |
| -!- fokat [~lem@200.84.99.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 18:34 | |
| -!- fokat [~lem@200.84.99.228] has joined #webgui | 18:35 | |
| Diggy | update - upgrade seemed to work. but when i try to go into admin mode, i get a "Problem with Request" page | 18:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | did you restart modperl? | 18:36 |
| +bartjol | a lot of times | 18:36 |
| +bartjol | oh, sorry | 18:37 |
| Diggy | as in restart apache? | 18:37 |
| +bartjol | not me | 18:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | yup | 18:37 |
| +bartjol | no | 18:37 |
| +bartjol | only apache isn't enough, is it? | 18:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | /data/wre/sbin/wreservice --restart modperl | 18:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | or /data/wre/sbin/wreservice --restart modperl specre | 18:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | err | 18:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | /data/wre/sbin/wreservice --restart modperl spectre | 18:38 |
| Diggy | many thanks, that did it! | 18:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | no problem | 18:41 |
| Diggy | i'm psyched, oh yeah. i'm psyched, oh yeah (does a liitle dance) | 18:41 |
| Diggy | NOW can i upgrade to latest and greatest? | 18:42 |
| Diggy | Yes? No? (everyone must have gone out on a cig break ;-) ) | 18:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | i dunno what version you're at | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | so I cannot tell | 18:47 |
| Diggy | 7.7.33 | 18:47 |
| +bartjol | what, I actually had some work to do | 18:47 |
| +MrHairgrease | I guess you can then upgrade to th e7.8 series | 18:47 |
| +bartjol | I try to avoid that, but hey | 18:47 |
| +bartjol | yes | 18:47 |
| +bartjol | maybe some perl modules | 18:48 |
| +MrHairgrease | just look in the gotchas.txt file if there are some extra stoppoints on th eroad | 18:48 |
| +bartjol | read the 7.8 gotcha | 18:48 |
| +bartjol | maybe 7.8.13 | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | you can upgrade from 7.7.33 to 7.8.14 with no hiccups | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | just extra module requirements | 18:48 |
| +bartjol | ah | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | we're trying to minimize mid-stream hiccups on the shunt path | 18:48 |
| +bartjol | but if you want to go to beta, stop at 7.8.13 | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | but going to 7.9.0 is for heffalumps and woozils | 18:49 |
| +bartjol | like me | 18:49 |
| Diggy | oh yeah, work. ok, i'll give 7.8.14 a whirl | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol is a jagular | 18:49 |
| Diggy | and, bartjol, take it easy on yourself :-) | 18:50 |
| +bartjol | I will, but I had some moments today that I took pride in myself too much | 18:50 |
| +bartjol | gotta keep the balance | 18:51 |
| Diggy | been there. then i do something completely idiotic, and it slaps me back to reality | 18:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I worked with a guy who said, "All those atta-boys are killed by one aw shit." | 18:51 |
| +bartjol | yeah, but for the few seconds it lasts, it is nice | 18:51 |
| Diggy | and, as we all know, reality bites | 18:52 |
| +bartjol | therefore, I wear steel underwear | 18:52 |
| Diggy | yeah, a brief endorphin rush | 18:52 |
| Diggy | perlDreamer, that one is going into my book of notable quotes | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I miss working with Jim, he was a good guy | 18:56 |
| Diggy | update - i'm now running the latest-and-greatest WebGUI!!! | 19:02 |
| Diggy | except for a couple of angst-filled moments, it was all pretty painless | 19:02 |
| Diggy | that is, thanks to your help | 19:03 |
| Diggy | i have 2 more questions: | 19:03 |
| +bartjol | yes we wear skirts | 19:03 |
| +bartjol | oops | 19:03 |
| +bartjol | go ahaid, yhat 1 beer hit a spot | 19:04 |
| Diggy | 1. as part of the upgrade process, the instructions, i'm to restart apache | 19:04 |
| +bartjol | well, mainly modperl | 19:04 |
| Diggy | but when i try, i get an error saying that httpd.conf can't be found | 19:04 |
| +bartjol | that is a mention in the output of the update script | 19:04 |
| +bartjol | ah | 19:04 |
| +bartjol | did you set the environment? | 19:04 |
| Diggy | oops, so much for RTFM | 19:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | are you restarting the system apache? | 19:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | beacuse you shgouldn't do that | 19:05 |
| Diggy | don't honestly know | 19:05 |
| +bartjol | well he seems to try that | 19:05 |
| Diggy | anyway, seems benign | 19:05 |
| +bartjol | perl wreservice.pl --restart modproxy | 19:05 |
| +MrHairgrease | if you use /data/wre/sbin/wreservice you don't have to worry about those things | 19:05 |
| +bartjol | that wreservice indeed | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | it's better to hjust run it as /data/wre/sbin/wreservice | 19:06 |
| Diggy | 2. somewhere i saw that i can check the WebGUI version from the admin console | 19:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | that way you don't need to set the environment in advance | 19:06 |
| Diggy | but i don't see where | 19:06 |
| +bartjol | it's in the statistics | 19:06 |
| Diggy | and, ok to answers for #1 | 19:06 |
| Diggy | (sheepishly) i haven't really set up the site yet. is "statistics" in the admin console? | 19:07 |
| SDuensin | yup | 19:08 |
| Diggy | it's probably staring me in the face | 19:08 |
| SDuensin | Little picture of a bar graph. | 19:08 |
| +bartjol | it's somewhere at words that start with an "S" | 19:08 |
| Diggy | uh, oh, i don't see that | 19:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | are you admin? | 19:09 |
| Diggy | yup | 19:09 |
| +bartjol | you're not at the new content, are you? | 19:09 |
| Diggy | see, my installation luck was too good to be true :-) | 19:10 |
| Diggy | yes, new content | 19:10 |
| +bartjol | that is not good | 19:10 |
| +bartjol | sorry | 19:10 |
| Diggy | ah, NOW i see it. arrgh | 19:10 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 19:10 |
| +bartjol | 1 click away | 19:11 |
| CIA-58 | WebGUI: translation * r12450 /translations/German/German/ (4 files): Updating German on translation server | 19:11 |
| +bartjol | perlDreamer: have you recomitted dutch to? | 19:11 |
| Diggy | hmm, odd. says WebGUI Build Version 7.7.33. Latest version available 7.8.14 | 19:11 |
| +bartjol | too? | 19:11 |
| -!- noroute [~noroute@z2f73.pia.fu-berlin.de] has quit [Quit: noroute] | 19:12 | |
| Diggy | i just installed 7.8.14 (didn't i?) | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, I just did German as a test | 19:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok, have fun with your new wg install, I have to go to the bar | 19:12 |
| +bartjol | ok, want another test? I won't touch it then | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | Diggy, you can check the WebGUI version from any page | 19:12 |
| -!- MrHairgrease [~martin@194.171.50.69] has left #webgui [] | 19:12 | |
| +perlDreamer | I'll commit yer stuff, bartjol | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | go chase after MrHairgrease | 19:12 |
| Diggy | if i were there, i'd buy you a tall frosty one | 19:12 |
| +bartjol | eeeh, beer | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | there you go | 19:13 |
| * SDuensin is closer, Diggy. :-P | 19:13 | |
| +bartjol | duck, you suckers, eeeh, I mean: so long dear people | 19:13 |
| -!- bartjol [~bartjol@kantoor.procolix.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 19:14 | |
| Diggy | what a nice person | 19:14 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol is good people | 19:14 |
| Diggy | perlDreamer, any idea why i'm not seeing 7.8.14 as installed? | 19:15 |
| SDuensin | I think I need cheeseburgers. | 19:15 |
| SDuensin | What do you see? | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | SDuensin: u can haz cheezbrgrz | 19:15 |
| Diggy | 7.7.13 is the Build Version reported | 19:15 |
| SDuensin | Uh oh. | 19:15 |
| Diggy | i could stand a burger, too | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | Diggy, what's the version in /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI.pm ? | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | right near the top of the file, first 10-15 lines or so | 19:16 |
| Diggy | and what do you mean, "uh, oh". not a confidence builder | 19:16 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | SDuensin: u can haz cheezbrgr | 19:16 |
| SDuensin | perlDreamer: Yea, but I gotta go get cheezbrgr. | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | but only if you stop scaring the newbies | 19:17 |
| Diggy | yeash, stop scaring the newbies! WebGUI.pm says "our $VERSION = '7.8.14'" | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, Diggy, here's what you need to do | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | Log into the site as Admin, Turn On Admin, Admin Console, Cache, clear cache | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | clear the cache in your browser | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | restart modperl again | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | turn around three times while chanting "WebGUI ROCKS!!" while holding a small purple octopus over your head | 19:21 |
| Diggy | used an armadillo for the dance, instead. it worked! | 19:23 |
| SDuensin | I've done that. It works. | 19:23 |
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| Diggy | if i had the octopus, i'd have eaten it | 19:24 |
| * SDuensin bought one to watch over his server. | 19:25 | |
| Diggy | first of all, to be completely semi-serious, thank you all so much for your help and your patience | 19:25 |
| Diggy | not only do i have a working latest-and-greatest, but i've had fun getting there | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | awesome :) | 19:26 |
| * SDuensin cheers! | 19:26 | |
| CIA-58 | WebGUI: translation * r12451 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset_SQLReport.pm Form_Username.pm Form.pm): Updating Dutch on translation server | 19:26 |
| SDuensin | See? You should hang out. We're fun. | 19:26 |
| Diggy | i'd like to drop in every once-in-a-while to do just that | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | Diggy, here's a little more advice | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | browse the wiki | 19:26 |
| Diggy | ? | 19:26 |
| Diggy | ok | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | download the WebGUI starter guide from plainblack.com and read it cover to cover | 19:27 |
| SDuensin | Yea. What he said. | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | report bugs when you find them, and answer questions to your bugs promptly | 19:27 |
| Diggy | reading! oh, no. | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | search the forum for questions/answers | 19:27 |
| SDuensin | Hehe | 19:27 |
| SDuensin | It has pictures! | 19:27 |
| Diggy | whew | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | if you do these things, the WebGUI support community will smile and bless you | 19:27 |
| Diggy | i can use all the help i can get! | 19:27 |
| Diggy | i'll do as advised | 19:28 |
| Diggy | now that i have a brand spankin' new install, i'll go at it in earnest | 19:28 |
| Diggy | ... i don't think earnest will mind | 19:28 |
| SDuensin | SNAPSHOT IT! | 19:29 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 19:29 |
| Diggy | will do | 19:29 |
| * SDuensin loves VMs. | 19:29 | |
| +perlDreamer | run your backups daily | 19:29 |
| Diggy | so does Diggy | 19:29 |
| Diggy | wait a minute here, there's real work involved here :-) | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | the WRE is setup to run backups for you | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | just setup the correct cron job | 19:30 |
| Diggy | good to know | 19:30 |
| Diggy | i can do that | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | I think the list of cron jobs is in the wiki | 19:32 |
| Diggy | the wiki seems like a must | 19:32 |
| Diggy | i'm just kinda noodlin' around the admin console now. how kewl | 19:32 |
| Trex | Hi folks. I have some simple questions about using preload.custom -- questions that appear not to be anwered in the wiki. | 19:33 |
| Diggy | well, back to work | 19:33 |
| SDuensin | Take your time. Don't get frustrated. | 19:33 |
| Diggy | as i said earlier, reality bites | 19:33 |
| SDuensin | Frustration leads you to do dumb things. Like when I installed Drupal and Joomla. | 19:33 |
| SDuensin | OK, I'm going for food at last. Back soon! | 19:34 |
| Diggy | SDuensin, i learned a long time ago that if u want to success in IT, u have to be patient | 19:34 |
| Diggy | anyway, thanks to all again | 19:34 |
| Trex | For example, I want to add a couple template variables to Calendar.pm, specifically to the month view... | 19:34 |
| Diggy | ttfn | 19:34 |
| -!- Diggy [~dyioulos@65.105.102.162.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 19:35 | |
| Trex | To do this with preload.custom, do you have to copy the entire Calendar.pm file over, or just the subroutines that you wish to modify (like viewMonth)? | 19:35 |
| Trex | In other words, does preload.custom replace everything within the original Calendar.pm file if it sees it in the custom directory, or does it give you more fine control over specific subroutines? | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | Trex: you'd subclass Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm, and just override the subroutines that you need to | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | custom.preload just adds directories to @INC | 19:38 |
| +perlDreamer | everything else is vanilla perl | 19:38 |
| +perlDreamer | what kind of variables do you want to add? | 19:38 |
| +perlDreamer | if you just want more date formats, I would use a Macro instead of changing code | 19:39 |
| Trex | Thanks, pearlDreamer. I don't suppose you could point me to a simple example that would show the syntax for how you would sublcass something. I can do some damage in Perl, but I'm hardly an expert. :) | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | it's pretty simple | 19:40 |
| Trex | What I would like is a "previousMonthUrl" and "nextMonthUrl" variable. Right now you just get a loop of months and links to them, so it seems a bit complex to try to build a marco that would generate these links from the available template variables. | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | use base qw/WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Calendar/; #for sub classing | 19:41 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1427692 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix direct linking to posts and threads when their pagination is set to 0. Fixes bug #11464. - http://bit.ly/aH0GC5 | 19:45 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r21e3210 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix direct linking to posts and threads when their pagination is set to 0. Fixes bug #11464. - http://bit.ly/cEWaYy | 19:45 |
| Trex | With subclassing, would I then be making an entire alternate variation of the Calendar (a whole new asset) in which my changes would be available, or does this make the changes available within the standard WebGUI Calendar asset? | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | well, if you subclass, it's a whole new asset | 20:01 |
| +perlDreamer | but if you monkey-patch, it would alter the default Calendar | 20:01 |
| Trex | Monkey-patching referring going into the API and modifying it yourself? | 20:01 |
| * perlDreamer suggests just patching the regular Calendar, and making an RFE to move the code into the core | 20:01 | |
| +perlDreamer | in monkey patching, you overwrite subroutines in another module | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | it's kind of like pulling weeds in your neighbors yards | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | it gets rid of the weeds, but isn't the best thing to be doing | 20:02 |
| Trex | I was hoping that preload.custom was a way to create custom mods that would apply to the core, but would be outside the upgrade path. | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | it is, but only as new assets, not by changing existing ones | 20:03 |
| Trex | And yes, I was planning on submitting an RFE, but wanted to test my code first under the preload.custom model -- at least how I thought it worked. | 20:03 |
| SDuensin | What about this? http://www.webgui.org/wgtv/the-swiftysite-technique (Or is that "monkey patching"?) | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not sure how they built it, SD. I didn't attend that session last year | 20:06 |
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| SDuensin | It's interesting. Some Perl-fu I've not seen before. (Which isn't hard to find.) | 20:06 |
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| Trex | Thanks for the help, perlDreamer! I must be off again. | 20:14 |
| -!- Trex [~Dale@x-160-94-170-39.borg.umn.edu] has left #webgui [] | 20:14 | |
| +patspam | Haarg: I pushed up the Plack code as the "plebgui" branch | 20:44 |
| +perlDreamer | patspam: my son Peter says there is good wine tasting on the trains at Mt. Hood | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not sure if he's trying to get a ride out of it, or wanting to try some wine (kid is only 10!), or authentically trying to be helpful | 20:47 |
| +patspam | either way... totally awesome! | 20:47 |
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| @preaction | patspam: does that mean plebgui is ready for prime-time? | 22:16 |
| +patspam | well.. | 22:16 |
| +patspam | I think I hacked it back to functional post-Plack::Request api changes | 22:16 |
| +patspam | but the next step would be to rewrite it | 22:17 |
| +patspam | ripping out Apache::Request altogether | 22:17 |
| +patspam | lib/WebGUI/Session/Plack.pm fakes the parts of Apache::Request API that webgui uses | 22:19 |
| @preaction | ahh | 22:19 |
| +patspam | really we should rip the guts out of WebGUI.pm, use middleware instead of content handlers, and refactor $session->request to be more naturally PSGI | 22:20 |
| @preaction | oh yes, but that would be far outside the scope of 8, and that is my plan for eventually (which, if i have my way, means 9) | 22:21 |
| @preaction | though that means we're once again playing catchup | 22:21 |
| +patspam | how much is within scope? | 22:22 |
| @preaction | ripping out Apache::Request is fine, i don't think that any asset-level custom code should be using $session->request. so any changes to that should be fine | 22:23 |
| @preaction | but using plack middleware not as fine, it's another set of changes and stuff we don't have time for | 22:24 |
| @preaction | though having a way to use plack middleware would be fine, then we could migrate at our leisure | 22:24 |
| @preaction | the main thing is we need to start having preview releases of WG8 in the next 3-4 months | 22:25 |
| +patspam | ok, so we keep support for content & url handlers in WebGUI.pm | 22:26 |
| @preaction | for now, yes | 22:26 |
| +patspam | I started converting the core handlers to middleware for plebgui, it's mostly an easy translation | 22:26 |
| +patspam | middleware will be possible as soon as we support PSGI | 22:27 |
| @preaction | okay | 22:27 |
| @preaction | anything to get rid of apache as soon as possible | 22:27 |
| @preaction | well, not apache, but modperl, but whatevz | 22:27 |
| +patspam | what's the plan for modproxy? | 22:28 |
| +patspam | did you say something about nginx + wgaccess the other day? | 22:29 |
| @preaction | nginx, yes | 22:29 |
| +patspam | sweet | 22:29 |
| @preaction | i'd really really really like to see if we can make WebGUI entirely async, but that might be more of a research project for a GSOC or something | 22:29 |
| +patspam | now you're talking! | 22:29 |
| @preaction | JT wanted carrier grade, I want to deliver ;) | 22:30 |
| +patspam | sweet. I've been playing with tatsumaki quite a bit lately | 22:30 |
| @preaction | interesting | 22:32 |
| +patspam | I'm bolt bussing to boston tonight (4hrs), I might see about ripping out Apache::Request | 22:32 |
| +patspam | the thing that was slowing me down was not knowing where to look up docs for the APR api | 22:32 |
| +patspam | I can never find the damn methods in cpan | 22:33 |
| @preaction | yeah, you gotta go to modperl.apache.org or whatever | 22:33 |
| +patspam | it's so annoying that you have to guess which package the method is in | 22:36 |
| +patspam | Apache2::RequestRec, Apache2::RequestUtil, .. | 22:36 |
| -!- carogray [~Caroline@72-59-50-141.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #webgui | 22:39 | |
| +patspam | I don't know if there's any sane way to keep the content and url handlers API | 22:39 |
| +patspam | because they're coupled to Apache request | 22:40 |
| @preaction | oh, right, of course | 22:41 |
| @preaction | well, URL handlers can go | 22:41 |
| @preaction | better idea: just make it a Plack::Request object instead and we'll make people change | 22:42 |
| +patspam | yeah that's much more preferable | 22:42 |
| +patspam | Asset is the only content handler that is coupled to Apache | 22:43 |
| +patspam | for streaming uploads | 22:43 |
| @preaction | ah, yeah that'll have to change | 22:43 |
| +patspam | but apart from that, we can preserve the contentHandler api | 22:44 |
| +patspam | url handlers will be so much nicer as middleware anyway | 22:44 |
| @preaction | indeed | 22:44 |
| +patspam | the one ugly hack i can remember in plebgui is that it buffers output | 22:45 |
| +patspam | but once we rip out Apache::Request I think we can fix that | 22:46 |
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| -!- patspam [~patspam@ool-182e18a7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 23:10 | |
| -!- patspam [~patspam@ool-182e18a7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #webgui | 23:17 | |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v patspam] by ChanServ | 23:17 | |
| +perlDreamer | patspam, there's some apache module which will tell you in which other modules the docs live | 23:20 |
| +perlDreamer | it was posted to the dev list a long time ago | 23:20 |
| +patspam | hmm can't find it | 23:25 |
| +patspam | well, with any luck I'll have internet access on the bus, so maybe chat to you guys later on | 23:30 |
| * patspam heads to boston | 23:30 | |
| -!- patspam [~patspam@ool-182e18a7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 23:30 | |
| * perlDreamer heads off to pick up the kids | 23:32 | |
| +perlDreamer | then I'll see about finding that Apache documentation module | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | it was perl -MApache:::Something -e 'find method_name;' | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | very simple | 23:33 |
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| --- Day changed Thu Mar 11 2010 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | ha! found it | 00:53 |
| +perlDreamer | http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/api/ModPerl/MethodLookup.html | 00:53 |
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| Getty | stupid question, someone asked me, can WebGUI run as (Fast)CGI? i dont think so, or? | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 01:12 |
| +perlDreamer | right now it only runs as modpel | 01:13 |
| +perlDreamer | modperl | 01:13 |
| +perlDreamer | in WebGUI 8, it might run as FastCGI through the magic of Plack | 01:13 |
| +perlDreamer | but we shall see | 01:13 |
| @preaction | Getty: if you want to help patspam with the plack translation, i'm sure he'd be appreciative (and so would i) | 01:19 |
| @preaction | if you can backport it to 7.x that'd be wonderful as well. | 01:19 |
| Getty | magic of Plack... ok ;) | 01:20 |
| Getty | nah, just curious.... is there mod_perl for lighttpd? so far i avoided mod_perl in general cause it made very strange errors in the past | 01:20 |
| +perlDreamer | we've been using it for quite a while now | 01:21 |
| +perlDreamer | and aside from using lots of memory, it's been fine | 01:21 |
| @preaction | it's not mod_perl so much as Apache::Request <- that's the big part | 01:21 |
| Getty | (for example long time mod_perl had the bug to disable parsing off .htaccess files with a path longer then 128 chars, whatever mod_perl was active for the vhost/dir or not) | 01:21 |
| Getty | if you had such kind of bugs you avoid that software for a longer time ;) | 01:22 |
| @preaction | the WRE puts a mod_proxy instance in front to serve static content or normal CGI stuff, the idea being to get rid of the problems of mod_perl from standard serving | 01:22 |
| @preaction | you could use lighty or nginx as the proxy | 01:22 |
| Getty | varnish and/or lighttpd should be the highest front | 01:22 |
| Getty | varnish + ESI... owns... | 01:22 |
| Getty | you REALLY should dive into this if you dont know it | 01:22 |
| Getty | its the concept akamai works on | 01:23 |
| @preaction | it's something to look at, but first we have to get rid of the reliance on apache | 01:26 |
| Getty | actually, if you use varnish + esi you could not care about that anymore | 01:27 |
| Getty | seriously | 01:27 |
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| Getty | patspam: we just talked about you :-P | 01:28 |
| @preaction | apache/mod_perl really hampers us when it comes to performance, real performance | 01:28 |
| +patspam | I felt my ears burning | 01:28 |
| +perlDreamer | it was better than CGI | 01:28 |
| +patspam | yay for bolt bus interwebs | 01:28 |
| Getty | preaction: yeah but you gain so much performance with that concept... you know it at all? i always wanted to set it up but my newest employer is actually not in the size for the requirement ;) at my old one they was to less into new technology (thats why i left) | 01:29 |
| @preaction | the ESI stuff would probably require a whole bunch of work, and may not even be viable for our model, where an entire page can be completely dependent on the user who is viewing it (not RESTful, but we've never enforced it in the past) | 01:29 |
| Getty | the caching of specific layers is something that already boosts much | 01:30 |
| Getty | even tho i know what you mean | 01:30 |
| @preaction | i'm not saying we can't do it, i'm saying we've got priorities, and our internals are so horrible that i'd rather straighten those out than try to build something on top of it | 01:30 |
| Getty | understandable | 01:30 |
| Getty | i just say that its worth to have a deeper look at it before you do some more internal rework | 01:31 |
| @preaction | i'd love to just scrap the entire project and build something fully modern on a completely async stack with sharding and caching and replication in mind on the full backend, but... well... | 01:31 |
| Getty | i know what you mean, 100% | 01:31 |
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| Getty | but i'm a rapid developer and i always tell: have one proof of concept so that you got it in mind, and probably "something happens" | 01:31 |
| Getty | and you guys are actually the best targets for that concept with that massive control about the env with WRE | 01:32 |
| @preaction | well, that's what the Plack stuff is for, to reduce our deps on WRE. that being said, I still want the WRE to be the "Best Way To Deploy WebGUI" | 01:33 |
| Getty | yeah it is | 01:33 |
| @preaction | but it'd still be nice to "cpan> install WebGUI" | 01:33 |
| Getty | yes of course | 01:33 |
| Getty | "whatever the user fits best" | 01:33 |
| Getty | but its awesome that you even THINK (thought) about WRE | 01:33 |
| Getty | that you made it | 01:33 |
| Getty | and see it as something that you can offer the user | 01:33 |
| @preaction | but then we're back to "so much to do, no manpower" | 01:33 |
| Getty | that is really "nextgen" in my eyes | 01:33 |
| @preaction | you'd be surprised at the naysayers, even i don't run WRE on my dev box anymore (lib incompatibilities with standard OS X stuff) | 01:34 |
| @preaction | but local::lib and perlswitch might work nicely with what we have | 01:34 |
| Getty | my resources i give out are mostly concentrated on Padre and lower level libraries (like Webframeworks where you build stuff like WebGUI ;) ) | 01:34 |
| Getty | yeah | 01:34 |
| Getty | i use it that way | 01:34 |
| Getty | no wait, i lie i dont | 01:34 |
| Getty | but it owuld work | 01:34 |
| Getty | no libs you use are incompatible with local::lib | 01:35 |
| @preaction | well, WebGUI is its own framework (which i'm trying to fix, see http://github.com/preaction/modern-webgui | 01:35 |
| Getty | i just wasnt sure how i use local::lib + mod_Perl and i didnt wanted to try out | 01:35 |
| Getty | of course you got your own framework :) | 01:35 |
| Getty | i didnt suggested anything else | 01:35 |
| Getty | :) | 01:35 |
| @preaction | i mean, i like Cat, but it doesn't mesh with the ideas of CMS very well (imho) | 01:35 |
| Getty | oh.... i will now start official my learning of Catalyst to port my (dont say one word) PHP Webframework to Perl | 01:36 |
| Getty | cause actually i still use it cause there is nothing like that on CPAN ;) | 01:36 |
| @preaction | new door | 01:36 |
| @preaction | (wow, that joke might be way too inside for anyone to get) | 01:37 |
| Getty | and i thought: whatever i do, i should make it on top of Catalyst, cause its made by some of the most experienced CPAN developers and so it should be a good base | 01:37 |
| @preaction | new door is an anagram for "one word". | 01:37 |
| Getty | sounds like you also like good tea ;) | 01:37 |
| @preaction | indeed. it's an app framework, and a CMS could be considered an app | 01:37 |
| Getty | catalyst is an app framework? | 01:37 |
| Getty | i totally considered it so far as framework | 01:38 |
| @preaction | well, web app framework | 01:38 |
| Getty | well wait... | 01:38 |
| +patspam | Getty: I used local::lib to deploy plebgui on shared hosting | 01:38 |
| Getty | mh where i can say the porder | 01:38 |
| Getty | aehm border | 01:38 |
| Getty | lets say i define an app framework more like something that does something even if you does nothing | 01:38 |
| Getty | if you get what i mean | 01:38 |
| Getty | even tho i must insist that definition is not that good, even tho its hard to make a REAL border | 01:39 |
| @preaction | ah, yes. WebGUI without the core asset set | 01:39 |
| @preaction | Catalyst is a framework | 01:39 |
| Getty | yeah you need to code an app with it | 01:39 |
| @preaction | Django is an app framework (has the admin stuff built-in) | 01:39 |
| Getty | yeah | 01:39 |
| Getty | that is what i meant | 01:39 |
| Getty | my framework does also nearly nothing when you dont do anything | 01:39 |
| Getty | but it gives you an error which template is missing ;) so you directly know where to start | 01:39 |
| Getty | hehe | 01:39 |
| @preaction | modern-webgui is heavily django-influenced (<3 django, but it really needs to start adding to the "app" part) | 01:40 |
| Getty | but its just the content template, the complete structure of the page in standard divs is already there blabla you know what i mean | 01:40 |
| Getty | its more "app" | 01:40 |
| Getty | i got an awesome form management, which now definitly needs refactoring, and i said: fuck that shit i directly convert now to perl | 01:41 |
| Getty | my boss is also hot for perl | 01:41 |
| Getty | so.... we defined 1 day / week i go now for the perl startup so that we got something in some weeks | 01:41 |
| Getty | its so ugly situation if you got something awesome to work with and its just in the wrong language... but its my fault so i cant blame anyone | 01:41 |
| Getty | my only big problem still is that i need smarty syntax templates... its still p.d. the best non-coder syntax style, i know you can bend TT much to behave much like that but it seems impossible to make it "$var" instead of "var" | 01:42 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r913fa9a / (58 files in 20 dirs): clean up Tie::IxHash imports - http://bit.ly/bBzkwl | 13:25 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra22162b / (11 files in 4 dirs): clean up Tie::CPHash imports - http://bit.ly/anYS7t | 13:25 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r2af4c4d / (47 files in 15 dirs): clean up WebGUI::Utility imports - http://bit.ly/atTsk0 | 13:25 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r45ca61b / (6 files in 2 dirs): more import cleanups - http://bit.ly/cZk5IY | 13:25 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:19 |
| +bartjol | hey scott | 16:22 |
| SDuensin | Hey bartjol | 16:24 |
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| +bartjol | oh, yeah, a customer called | 16:55 |
| +bartjol | strange people | 16:55 |
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| +perlDreamer | morning, folks | 17:34 |
| SDuensin | Hey perlDreamer | 17:35 |
| @Haarg | morning | 17:36 |
| @Haarg | is there any reason to keep the 7.7 upgrades in WebGUI8 i'm not thinking of? | 17:39 |
| +perlDreamer | none | 17:43 |
| +perlDreamer | I just got through pruning the 7.7 upgrades out of 7.8 and 7.9 | 17:43 |
| SDuensin | Crap. Out of coffee. | 17:43 |
| +perlDreamer | taking kids to school, be back in 20 | 17:43 |
| * SDuensin will still be here. | 17:43 | |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rb24978e / (182 files in 23 dirs): removing old upgrades - http://bit.ly/bfFTRX | 17:46 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, what do you think about removing the form magic from property, and requiring people to put things into form directly? | 17:56 |
| @Haarg | i was thinking about that. the magic is becoming more problematic. | 17:57 |
| @Haarg | but it also seems like it should work fine to continue having the magic | 17:58 |
| +perlDreamer | what about the thing with adding traits and the meta_property? | 17:58 |
| +perlDreamer | it seems like we need to have a class with the trait applied to see what the attribute will do | 17:59 |
| +perlDreamer | so then we're building some anonymous throwaway metaclass just to do that | 17:59 |
| @Haarg | kind of | 17:59 |
| @Haarg | but it caches the metaclass it builds | 18:00 |
| @Haarg | based on the traits applied | 18:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, in order to apply the roles to the anon class, I need to get it inside the buidler for _property_metaclass | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | but builder methods don't get arguments, other than $self | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | I think that means we need to flatten it into add_property | 18:19 |
| +perlDreamer | "it" being _property_metaclass | 18:19 |
| @Haarg | yeah, we might just want to do away with _property_metaclass | 18:20 |
| +perlDreamer | are you going to talk about Moose at the WUC this year, Haarg? | 18:27 |
| @Haarg | no. i don't remember if someone else was planning on talking about it. | 18:28 |
| @Haarg | ugh i hate UNIVERSAL::(isa|can) so much | 18:37 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | if it would just shut up, it would be a little more tolerable | 18:40 |
| @Haarg | i would be fine with the warnings if they weren't all false positives | 18:40 |
| @Haarg | like this | 18:41 |
| @Haarg | Called UNIVERSAL::isa() as a function, not a method at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/UNIVERSAL/can.pm line 43 | 18:41 |
| +perlDreamer | any thoughts on this: http://gist.github.com/329325 | 18:45 |
| @Haarg | where is that trait supposed to be from? | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::Trait::Array | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I think that's the problem | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | there's magic in traits to expand Array into Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::Trait::Array | 18:48 |
| @Haarg | yeah | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | $perlDreamer->invoke('dispel magic', 'WebGUI::Definition::add_property'); | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | crud | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | You have to be a level 3 magic user to do that | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | or was it level 5? | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | it's been too long ago | 18:52 |
| @Haarg | that may be the best way to go | 18:57 |
| @Haarg | there are two other alternatives. first is using Moose::Meta::Class->interpolate_class(_and_new)? to make the metaclass object | 18:58 |
| @Haarg | and the other 'better' solution that we don't have time for, which is making traits for all of the form types | 18:58 |
| +perlDreamer | that would mean that I'd need to build a form type for handling JSON in the db, for things that never send the JSON to a form | 18:59 |
| +perlDreamer | but I agree that we need a type system, and have our forms interact with that | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | and, personally, I think we should base it on native Moose type, and build around that, rather than the other way around | 19:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | I think that's a typo | 19:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't see an interpolate_class in Moose::Meta::Class | 19:04 |
| @Haarg | i guess it isn't in the pod | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not in the code, either | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | it's actually in Moose::Meta::Attribute | 19:05 |
| @Haarg | err | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | and it does resolve trait names | 19:05 |
| @Haarg | yeah, that's the one | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | the farther back we push into Moose, the more susceptible we're going to be to future change | 19:06 |
| @Haarg | especially for undocumented methods | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | that's just a typo, I'll track down their repo and submit a doc patch | 19:08 |
| @Haarg | typo? | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | in the docs, it says to call Moose::Meta::Class->interp.... | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | it should be Moose::Meta::Attribute->interp | 19:09 |
| @Haarg | Moose::Meta::Attribute->interpolate_class is undocumented though | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | right, the only one that's documented is interpolate_class_and_new | 19:10 |
| * perlDreamer goes to the gym | 19:13 | |
| @Haarg | unfortunately, interpolate_class is the one we want | 19:20 |
| @Haarg | perlDreamer, completely untested but i was thinking something like this http://gist.github.com/329395 | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | it looks exactly right, codewise | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll see what the tests say | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe a quick pop into #moose to ask about that method? | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | 'cuz I'd be happy to make them a doc patch for it | 20:17 |
| Getty | whats the problem? | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | and to find out if it's going to be, expected to be deprecated | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | this method: Moose::Meta::Attribute->interpolate_class | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | is not documented in the POD | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | from previous, painful experience, that means it might not be wise to use it, Getty | 20:18 |
| Getty | there are many not documented in the POD cause they are used internal or shouldnt be used by users who have no idea | 20:18 |
| Getty | yeah | 20:18 |
| Getty | those functions are 99% sure to be changed or dropped | 20:18 |
| Getty | i even think that i know of interpolate_class that its not the right way | 20:19 |
| @Haarg | not the right way for what? | 20:24 |
| @Haarg | perlDreamer, i think i have my WebGUI::Paths branch working properly. the only things that still refer to the WebGUI lib directory are the POD/Perl::Critic tests. api breaks on WebGUI::Session->open and WebGUI::Config->new. | 20:28 |
| +perlDreamer | those are low usage API methods, and we're in 8 anyway | 20:28 |
| @Haarg | yeah | 20:28 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, does changing ownership of a file leave a timestamp somewhere I can check? | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | in the filesystem? | 20:29 |
| @Haarg | don't believe so | 20:29 |
| @Haarg | why? | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | Getty, why is interpolate_class the wrong way to do it? | 20:42 |
| Getty | its just somehting that pops into my mind if i remember | 20:42 |
| Getty | i must check into it what it does again, then i probably remember my case | 20:42 |
| Getty | but i did some deeper stuff in moose and that is function-ape-jungle-hopping ;) | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I'll do some googling, then ask in #moose real quick | 21:07 |
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| +perlDreamer | hey, tavisto! | 21:17 |
| @tavisto | hey brotah | 21:17 |
| @tavisto | er brotha | 21:17 |
| @tavisto | how's life? | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | very busy | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | kids, jobs, wife | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | cooking, cleaning, laundry | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | remodeling, electrical work, appliance installs | 21:19 |
| @Haarg | hey tavisto, did you see that steam + valve's games are coming to mac? | 21:22 |
| @Haarg | no more rebooting needed for tf2 | 21:23 |
| @tavisto | yeah, been busy here too. Craziness. hehe I've been working on my house a lot as well. | 21:23 |
| @tavisto | Just finished my taxes so that's a good thing to check off my list. And no I hadn't heard about steam coming to mac.. That rocks!!! | 21:24 |
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| @tavisto | Haarg, you enjoying your MBP upgrade? I like this sooo much better. | 21:32 |
| @Haarg | it is quite nice, yeah | 21:32 |
| @tavisto | really nice when I have to jump into windows on VMware | 21:33 |
| @tavisto | Does anyone know why my ^AdSpace(); macro would just print out on a style template rather than showing an ad? | 21:33 |
| @tavisto | I'm sitting here thinking... there's nothing to it.... or am I just having a brain fart | 21:34 |
| @Haarg | not sure. where is this? | 21:34 |
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| +perlDreamer | the Ad in the AdSpace could have a problem | 21:35 |
| @Haarg | i hope they make 85W power adapters with the new connector at some point http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC461LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDEwMQ&mco=MTMzODAwMDI | 21:35 |
| @Haarg | would be much more convenient than the current ones | 21:35 |
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| @tavisto | Haarg, perlDreamer it's on the TGC Forums (bugs) | 21:39 |
| @tavisto | instead of rendering the ad, it just prints out the macro on the page | 21:39 |
| @tavisto | I'm 99% sure that macro is enabled by default | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | we can check that | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | nope, it's not | 21:41 |
| +perlDreamer | you want it added, tavisto? | 21:41 |
| @tavisto | oh crap then that's why | 21:42 |
| @tavisto | could you enable that on TGC | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 21:42 |
| @tavisto | thanks, I'm sitting here wondering what the heck is going on | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, please give her a retry | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | oh yeah | 21:45 |
| @tavisto | booyah grandma | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | normally we don't do support for clients over IRC, but we always make an exception for you, tavisto | 21:48 |
| @tavisto | gee thanks | 21:53 |
| @tavisto | I have a special support package | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | It's the Brazilian BBQ+ package | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | speaking of which, it is definitely time for lunch | 22:04 |
| +perlDreamer | bbiaw | 22:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, that returns a meta class of the class Moose::Meta::Attribute | 23:21 |
| +perlDreamer | and technically, it only returns a class name | 23:22 |
| +perlDreamer | and now Definition.t passes: http://gist.github.com/329691 | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll try the others next | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | all right! | 23:44 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf4467cb / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Class.pm : Attempt #1 to pass traits through property. - http://bit.ly/91yb6D | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | we have traits | 23:44 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r570eea7 / t/Definition.t : Add test for passing through traits. - http://bit.ly/atojzC | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | now I just have to write some | 23:44 |
| --- Day changed Fri Mar 12 2010 | ||
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| CIA-58 | WebGUI: translation * r12452 /translations/ (201 files in 3 dirs): Updating Czech on translation server | 10:58 |
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| SynQhome | bah | 14:33 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:17 |
| +bartjol | hey scott, learned dutch already? | 16:20 |
| SDuensin | Voorjen! | 16:23 |
| SDuensin | That close? | 16:23 |
| +bartjol | voorjen? what kind of dialect is that? | 16:25 |
| SDuensin | It had double vowels and a J in a strange place. Looked Dutch to me. :-P | 16:26 |
| +bartjol | it looks like it, but does not sound like it, so it is not a duck | 16:29 |
| SDuensin | Then it's not a witch. | 16:30 |
| SDuensin | Oh! Amazing! I get IE7 on March 15th! | 16:31 |
| * SDuensin can't stand stupid corporate America. | 16:31 | |
| +bartjol | eeeh, where are you located? | 16:31 |
| * bartjol means : where in time | 16:31 | |
| +bartjol | and they're not going for the full ie8 in one go? | 16:32 |
| SDuensin | In time? 2010. :-P | 16:32 |
| SDuensin | Government contractor dude. I'm surprised I get 7. | 16:32 |
| SDuensin | (Although I already have 8 and Chrome on my machine.) | 16:32 |
| +bartjol | it is an improvement, and soon I will get the browser choice screen microsoft update | 16:33 |
| +bartjol | european regulations++ | 16:33 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 16:33 |
| +bartjol | mmm, 500 karma left to spend from my pile of karma | 16:38 |
| +bartjol | and, I spend it all | 16:40 |
| SDuensin | Got an odd question... Ever lock down WebGUI pages based on the browser's user-agent? | 16:40 |
| +bartjol | well, I wanted to one time, but I never came around to do so | 16:40 |
| +bartjol | actually, when using ie, i wanted to show a solitair jumping cards video and a text: use another browser, or go play games | 16:41 |
| SDuensin | I'm building a rather interesting service and wanted to use WebGUI to provide a lot of the generic functions (user management, billing, forums, etc) but I don't want them being accessed outside my custom client. | 16:42 |
| SDuensin | Hehe | 16:42 |
| +bartjol | mmm, that does a bit like monopolising | 16:42 |
| SDuensin | I used to embed a script in all my sites that helped people get away from IE6 if they were using it. Then the bastards at Microsoft bought the domain that was doing the anti-IE6 campaign and took the script down! | 16:43 |
| +bartjol | what, even microsoft wants people to upgrade, stupid mrrpprgfffpowhfp | 16:43 |
| SDuensin | Well, I'm not going to lock down the entire site. Just the pages that require my browser to properly render. | 16:44 |
| +bartjol | and when they use the wrong browser they got redirected to a site that says, please use <my browser> for viewing this page | 16:46 |
| +bartjol | ? | 16:46 |
| SDuensin | No, just back to the home page of the site. | 16:46 |
| +bartjol | well, that are details | 16:46 |
| SDuensin | Only way they'd ever even be able to try and access one of those custom browser pages with a different browser is if they're poking around and doing things they shouldn't be doing. :-) | 16:47 |
| +bartjol | eeeh, I am think of a contenthandler that sets scratch variable, and when it exists on the page there is a macro that redirects you | 16:48 |
| +bartjol | but that may be to late | 16:48 |
| +bartjol | you'l get a blink of the scrteen | 16:48 |
| SDuensin | What about even before WebGUI gets it? Make Apache do the filtering? | 16:49 |
| +bartjol | off course, but I was thinking more generically | 16:49 |
| SDuensin | Generic is good. :-) | 16:50 |
| +bartjol | because, you'll have to set each url | 16:50 |
| +bartjol | my way, you can make a template: | 16:50 |
| +bartjol | <tmpl_if my_scratch>then redirect<tmpl_else>all my cool html</tmpl_if> | 16:50 |
| +bartjol | but | 16:51 |
| SDuensin | Interesting. | 16:51 |
| +bartjol | problem | 16:51 |
| +bartjol | you only want to do that once per session | 16:51 |
| +bartjol | so | 16:51 |
| +bartjol | only at first access | 16:52 |
| SDuensin | Where would "my_scratch" come from? | 16:52 |
| +bartjol | the first request in of the session must call the method to set it | 16:53 |
| +bartjol | which requests meddling in the session code | 16:54 |
| +bartjol | eq "undesirable" | 16:54 |
| SDuensin | Yea. That'd be bad. | 16:54 |
| +bartjol | don\'t fiddle with session or die; | 16:55 |
| +bartjol | well | 16:55 |
| SDuensin | I'd rather tweak Apache than WebGUI code. | 16:56 |
| +bartjol | yeah | 16:56 |
| +bartjol | thinking of a contenthandler that always is called, but does nothing if sessioncookie exists | 16:56 |
| +bartjol | that already sounds better\ | 16:56 |
| SDuensin | For the most part, I can just "hide" the URLs. However, I know some goober out there is going to snoop them with a proxy of some kind and go poking around. | 16:57 |
| +bartjol | but you'll have to set each apache request to use that handler, and also be able to caal other handlers | 16:57 |
| +bartjol | arg | 16:57 |
| +bartjol | people like me | 16:58 |
| SDuensin | What about just using rewrite to bounce requests targeted for a specific sub-folder of the site? | 16:58 |
| +bartjol | in apache? | 16:58 |
| SDuensin | Yea | 16:58 |
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| SDuensin | Hey perlDreamer | 16:59 |
| +perlDreamer | morning, SDuensin | 16:59 |
| +bartjol | well, during thinking of other solutions, this is starting to sound better and better | 16:59 |
| +perlDreamer | what's up? | 16:59 |
| SDuensin | bartjol - hehe | 16:59 |
| +bartjol | SD wants to lock out ie6 users | 16:59 |
| SDuensin | perlDreamer - Trying to make WebGUI do things it's not intended to do. :-) | 16:59 |
| +perlDreamer | et tu, SD? | 16:59 |
| SDuensin | Actually, I want to lock out *ALL* standard browser users. | 16:59 |
| +perlDreamer | why? | 17:00 |
| SDuensin | You're in the USA, right? Ever hear of "Steam"? | 17:00 |
| +perlDreamer | Yeah, some game company, right? | 17:00 |
| SDuensin | Well, Valve is the company. Steam is their client. But yea... | 17:01 |
| SDuensin | Basically, half their client is delivered as HTML. Makes it very easy for them to update content... | 17:01 |
| SDuensin | I'm doing the same thing and don't want non-client users poking around on the special pages intended to be rendered inside the client software. | 17:01 |
| +perlDreamer | should be very easy to do | 17:03 |
| +perlDreamer | add browser rejection via a URL Handler | 17:03 |
| SDuensin | So enlighten us, oh master. :-P | 17:03 |
| * perlDreamer will ponder briefly | 17:03 | |
| +perlDreamer | it was a very long night last night for support calls | 17:03 |
| SDuensin | NP | 17:04 |
| SDuensin | No rush. Domain isn't even online yet. | 17:04 |
| SDuensin | This is a brand-spankin' new project. | 17:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I think the best way to do this is actually via Apache | 17:10 |
| +perlDreamer | where you put rules in the vhost section that requires a certain client to access the site | 17:11 |
| SDuensin | That's what I was thinking. Just wanted more opinions. | 17:11 |
| SDuensin | And it's not even the entire site - just a branch of it. | 17:11 |
| +bartjol | oh, I thought it were some random pages throuhout | 17:16 |
| +bartjol | a branche makes it better | 17:16 |
| SDuensin | Nope. I can contain them into one area. | 17:16 |
| * bartjol is getting very good at thinking of too complicated solutions | 17:17 | |
| SDuensin | Hehe | 17:17 |
| SDuensin | You might be perfect for this project! | 17:17 |
| +bartjol | well, you can hire me probably | 17:17 |
| SDuensin | Sure. I pay $0 a day. | 17:17 |
| +bartjol | ah, Koen will not agree with that | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | how much by the hour? | 17:18 |
| +perlDreamer | $0/8 | 17:18 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | that would be a very nice cooperation, I think of too complicated solutions all day, and you'll do it with the easy one in 5 minutes | 17:19 |
| +perlDreamer | are you going to submit a WUC talk, bartjol? | 17:29 |
| +bartjol | well | 17:30 |
| +bartjol | I'd like to, but | 17:30 |
| +bartjol | not sure whether I can come yet | 17:31 |
| +bartjol | I'd actually thought of webgui cluster building | 17:31 |
| +bartjol | which might be a bit too easy maybe | 17:31 |
| +bartjol | and to linux focussed | 17:31 |
| SDuensin | Bah. Who cares about Windows hippies. :-) | 17:32 |
| +bartjol | or apples | 17:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I wouldn't worry about linux focus, few people run WebGUI on windows anymore | 17:32 |
| +bartjol | yeah | 17:32 |
| +bartjol | well | 17:32 |
| +bartjol | first see whether I can come | 17:32 |
| +bartjol | some organisational limits I'm bumping into | 17:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I think someone spammed the Czech translation on the server | 17:39 |
| +bartjol | may very well be | 17:40 |
| +perlDreamer | try translating the notes.txt file | 17:41 |
| +bartjol | mmm, what is submitted looks quite normal to me | 17:43 |
| +bartjol | are it not just the files being added? | 17:44 |
| +perlDreamer | no, some of the files have actually been translated, and they're okay | 17:45 |
| +perlDreamer | brb, have to take kids to school | 17:45 |
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| +perlDreamer | back | 17:55 |
| SDuensin | Me too. :-) | 17:55 |
| * SDuensin lost his tether. Thanks, AT&T. | 17:55 | |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r953df35 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum.pm : Remove duplicate accessor method. - | 18:07 |
| * bartjol knows that html is not css and has done his best to brak the news in a subtle manner | 18:07 | |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3ea797b / (7 files in 2 dirs): Wobject tests, through letter M. - http://bit.ly/bLH3MC | 18:07 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol: who is the recipient of the bad news? | 18:08 |
| +bartjol | a very well appreciated colleague of mr patspam | 18:10 |
| +bartjol | well everybody's got his own comfort zone | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I need some bash command line help | 18:14 |
| +perlDreamer | I want to do this: | 18:14 |
| +perlDreamer | for file in (`ls /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject`) do; cp template $file; done | 18:14 |
| SDuensin | So do it. :-) | 18:15 |
| SDuensin | May want to toss a "-1" (dash one) behind the ls. | 18:15 |
| +perlDreamer | -1 ? | 18:15 |
| +bartjol | small L> | 18:15 |
| +perlDreamer | whenever I've piped ls into anything, it's always done that for | 18:17 |
| +perlDreamer | me | 18:17 |
| SDuensin | "dash one" just gives a list of filenames, no other output. | 18:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | time to take some time to read Ovid's complete Test::Class tutorial | 18:23 |
| +perlDreamer | because there must be an easier way than listing each test class in the run script | 18:23 |
| +bartjol | mmm, custom workflow giving errors | 18:32 |
| +bartjol | debug code can be removed after debugging | 18:34 |
| +perlDreamer | or use $session->log->debug('debug comment'); | 18:35 |
| +perlDreamer | then you can leave it in, and enable it via log.conf | 18:36 |
| +bartjol | well, i just made a comment to see whther it run at all | 18:36 |
| +bartjol | it does apparently | 18:36 |
| +bartjol | just a bit lazy | 18:37 |
| +bartjol | ok, now for Unable to load WebGUI::i18n::English::Dutch | 18:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | The correct class name for that module would be WebGUI::i18n::Denglish | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | You sure it isn't WebGUI::i18n::Engutch? | 18:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | No, we call the Anglified Dutch Denglish in the NL | 18:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | Just like we have Chinglish for Chinese-English | 18:41 |
| +bartjol | I'm not doing that translation as well | 18:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | holy crap | 18:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | both perldreamer and patspam commenting on blogs.perl.com! | 18:41 |
| +perlDreamer | huh? | 18:41 |
| +perlDreamer | who, me? | 18:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah you | 18:42 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re0e71a5 / t/run_asset.t : Add Navigation, Poll, ProjectManager to run script. - http://bit.ly/9PQGEz | 18:42 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8209de7 / (23 files in 4 dirs): Add tests for most other wobjects. Block broken code in Role/Asset/Comments. Refactor run_asset.t - http://bit.ly/cV7l7P | 18:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | on the 100% test coverage thread | 18:42 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, 100% test coverage is misleading | 18:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I wrote 2000 tests in the last 3 days | 18:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | wow | 18:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | you have been busy... | 18:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I cheated | 18:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I used Test::Class | 18:42 |
| +bartjol | mmm i tried loading dutch twice | 18:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | double ducth | 18:44 |
| +bartjol | it sure is | 18:44 |
| +perlDreamer | where is patspam's comment on blogs.perl.org? | 18:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://blogs.perl.org/users/sawyer_x/2010/03/measuring-the-progress-of-ui.html#comments | 18:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | last comments | 18:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | s/s// | 18:45 |
| +bartjol | so long, it's beer o clock | 18:49 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2997471 / (3 files in 3 dirs): fix assetName calls for Asset and Wobject. - http://bit.ly/auNa6s | 18:55 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf56523c / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : add lastUpdated stamp for mobile style labels. - http://bit.ly/9Tewlr | 18:56 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rc57e40e / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : add lastUpdated stamp for mobile style labels. - http://bit.ly/b97AIA | 18:56 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r85121c5 / (98 files in 8 dirs): Move Test::Asset* to Test::WebGUI::Asset* - http://bit.ly/bkHoqU | 19:01 |
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| elnino | good evening! | 06:49 |
| elnino | I'm trying to implement this: http://javascript.internet.com/miscellaneous/browser-correct-download-instructions.html | 06:49 |
| elnino | but instead of getting the strings that I'm supposed to be getitng, I get: /*<![CDATA[*//*]]>*/ as the output | 06:49 |
| elnino | I created a snippet to create the download.js, cache 1 second | 06:50 |
| elnino | type javascript/text | 06:50 |
| elnino | and put the script in the head | 06:50 |
| elnino | and then copied the call to the function in another snippet, cache 1 sec. | 06:50 |
| elnino | I've done things like this before, but getting CDATA is throwin gme for a loop. | 06:50 |
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| CIA-58 | WebGUI: translation * r12453 /translations/German/German/Asset_Survey.pm: Updating German on translation server | 16:55 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * rad176a9 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Ready to start thinking about IO bound delayed response - | 18:32 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf7589e6 / (48 files in 5 dirs): Refactoring to remove putting className into each test class. WIP. - http://bit.ly/9E5vxG | 06:06 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r20507ee / (47 files in 5 dirs): Calculate class to load. Remove class method from each test file. Fix typos. - http://bit.ly/bGVefh | 06:06 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r790ccbe / t/run_asset.t : Fix script to work and load the utility test module. - http://bit.ly/cxDw0I | 06:06 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r41fffba / (46 files in 4 dirs): Remove FindBin from test class sub-modules. - http://bit.ly/ayCAOm | 06:06 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd4eae41 / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo.pm : Add a test for Photo - http://bit.ly/c2HWxl | 06:23 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3a2f94f / (4 files): Test for some Sku's. - http://bit.ly/9JevaZ | 06:27 |
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| CIA-58 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * r38fba2d / (34 files in 11 dirs): update copyright year - http://bit.ly/bBJ2t6 | 15:49 |
| CIA-58 | wgdev: Graham Knop master * r8dfd618 / lib/WGDev/Command/For/Each.pm : add for-each command - http://bit.ly/8Z4RJ6 | 15:49 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rae31597 / t/tests/My/Test/Class.pm : Forgot the custom test subclass. - http://bit.ly/9PXPOr | 18:04 |
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| +patspam | preaction: ping | 00:27 |
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| @preaction | patspam: sup | 03:07 |
| +patspam | I am knee-deep in psgi | 03:07 |
| +patspam | about halfway through ripping out apache and re-psgi-ifying webgui8 | 03:07 |
| @preaction | yay | 03:08 |
| +patspam | the really juicy question is what to do about streaming | 03:08 |
| @preaction | okay, what's the problem and what are our options? | 03:09 |
| +patspam | I'm tempted to steal the Tatsumaki approach, which supports both blocking streaming and asynchronous streaming, with a unified API | 03:09 |
| +patspam | but I'm trying to be conservative | 03:10 |
| @preaction | so the problem is our "ability" to stream files through WebGUI | 03:10 |
| +patspam | just content at this stage, not files | 03:10 |
| +patspam | e.g. ProgressBar | 03:10 |
| @preaction | ahhh | 03:11 |
| +patspam | e.g. for (1..10) { $session->output->print($_); sleep 1 } | 03:11 |
| @preaction | well, that's a solution to a different problem. if there's another solution we can implement it will be fine | 03:11 |
| +patspam | yeah true | 03:12 |
| @preaction | i hate to go this way, but would tying ourselves to POE be a bad thing? | 03:14 |
| @preaction | actually, JT might have some insight | 03:15 |
| @preaction | he mentioned dealing with the async/blocking problem when developing SimpleDB::Class | 03:15 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * rb63d1eb / (6 files in 6 dirs): mid-way commit - http://bit.ly/aywoIR | 04:10 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r76d8ecf / (8 files in 7 dirs): Demo site loads - http://bit.ly/c0BVvB | 04:10 |
| +patspam | preaction: I think using AnyEvent is the preferred approach | 04:10 |
| +patspam | anyway, enough for today, talk more tomorrow | 04:10 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 15:19 |
| +bartjol | might it oh, hi scott | 15:29 |
| +bartjol | mmm, SDuensin, I submitted an rfe, but I'm wondering whether I wouldn't call it a bug | 15:37 |
| +bartjol | mm, better ask colin later, he has the power to move that stuff | 15:38 |
| SDuensin | I like bugs. Bugs get fixed. RFEs get whined over. :-) | 15:39 |
| +bartjol | well, missing POD might be considered a bug | 15:46 |
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| +bartjol | morning colin | 16:21 |
| +bartjol | I was wondering whether my rfe might be considered a bug: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11474 | 16:21 |
| +perlDreamer | definitely | 16:22 |
| +perlDreamer | let's fix it now | 16:22 |
| +perlDreamer | upload the docs you want, and we'll include it in the next WRE release | 16:22 |
| +bartjol | ah | 16:23 |
| +perlDreamer | this last batch of remodeling went very well | 16:23 |
| +bartjol | cool | 16:23 |
| +bartjol | pictures? | 16:23 |
| +perlDreamer | forthcoming | 16:23 |
| +bartjol | well, I've read the code a bit, but I'm not sure yet what the input should be exactly | 16:24 |
| +bartjol | A line which says: | 16:25 |
| +bartjol | # Put your dir names that should not be included in the backup below. Just the dir name and 1 per line. | 16:25 |
| +bartjol | I'm not sure whether the path can be included | 16:25 |
| +bartjol | reading wre:file.pm now | 16:28 |
| +bartjol | ah | 16:29 |
| +bartjol | I see, it uses the tar --exclude-from option | 16:30 |
| +bartjol | so patterns are excluded | 16:30 |
| +bartjol | something like: # Put in patterns, one per line, that should not be included in the backup. These options are passed into the --exclude-from option from tar. Therefore a complete path is not needed. | 16:35 |
| +perlDreamer | will it exclude lines with comments in there, or do they need to be stripped out? | 16:37 |
| +bartjol | yeah, I was wondering that | 16:37 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we should put it into the POD for backup.pl, if there is any? | 16:38 |
| +bartjol | well, backup.pl --help doesn't do anything, I'll have a look | 16:38 |
| +bartjol | hmpg: :~$ perldoc /data/wre/sbin/backup.pl | 16:39 |
| +bartjol | No documentation found for "/data/wre/sbin/backup.pl". | 16:39 |
| +perlDreamer | since it's in the WRE, we should assign it to SynQhome | 16:40 |
| +bartjol | added a note with the proposed comment (slightly altered) | 16:41 |
| +bartjol | he isn't at home | 16:41 |
| +bartjol | I changed the wiki on the site | 16:41 |
| +perlDreamer | if you have a bit, can you try to duplicate this bug: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11473 | 16:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | I don't know how he's doing it, but I'm not able to hit it in 7.9 | 16:42 |
| +bartjol | sure | 16:42 |
| +bartjol | mmm, at first I cannot reproduce it either | 16:46 |
| +perlDreamer | martien's bug hit rate is about 60% (subjectively), and he runs custom code in the core | 16:46 |
| +bartjol | aaah wait | 16:46 |
| +perlDreamer | going to have to discount this one, probably, or ask him how he does that | 16:46 |
| +bartjol | I have seen that | 16:46 |
| +perlDreamer | brb, have to take kids to school | 16:46 |
| +bartjol | mmm, I believe it is the isDefault field in the template table | 16:57 |
| +bartjol | which is 0 in the duplicated template | 16:57 |
| +bartjol | but I have seen this behaviour | 16:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I remember a bug about it, but it was a long time ago | 17:01 |
| +perlDreamer | not in recent code | 17:01 |
| +bartjol | mmm, I believe I mainly ignored those messages | 17:10 |
| +bartjol | martien posted something | 17:10 |
| +bartjol | ah, well, I must wait till 7.9.1 | 17:11 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a duplicate of an earlier bug, #11459 | 17:15 |
| +perlDreamer | the upgrade to 7.9.0 marked every template as duplicate by accident | 17:16 |
| +perlDreamer | which was the opposite of the upgrade to 7.8.0, which marked no new templates added by WebGUI as duplicates. | 17:16 |
| +bartjol | ah | 17:17 |
| +perlDreamer | and I think I've fixed both problems from here on out | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | duplicate? not default? | 17:19 |
| +bartjol | why should a template been marked as duplicate anyway, from the duplication on, it is just an asset | 17:21 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry, not as duplicates, but as default | 17:21 |
| +bartjol | you're just trying to confuse me | 17:23 |
| * perlDreamer is sleep deprived due to daylight savings changes | 17:25 | |
| +bartjol | was that this weekend? | 17:29 |
| SDuensin | yup | 17:30 |
| +perlDreamer | ugh, yes | 17:30 |
| SDuensin | I say we all boycott when they try and change back. | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, why go back to daylight wasting time? | 17:31 |
| SDuensin | I have no idea dude. Government decision. | 17:31 |
| +bartjol | we first have to get rid of timezones | 17:34 |
| +bartjol | daylight saving only starts at the 28th of march | 17:40 |
| +perlDreamer | President Bush extended it, so that it starts earlier and goes later in the year for us | 17:42 |
| +bartjol | what a genius mind | 17:43 |
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| SDuensin | I'm rocketing into the future today! I get XP Service Pack 3! | 17:50 |
| +perlDreamer | watch out for whiplash, SDuensin | 18:05 |
| SDuensin | IE7, here I come! | 18:06 |
| +bartjol | you employer doesn't really care about safety, does he SDuensin? | 18:09 |
| SDuensin | My employer is a contractor to the government. Stupid is as stupid does. | 18:10 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, bunch of calendar i18n coming your way tomorrow | 18:42 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rce08b3d / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : Fix a syntax error in the wobject i18n file. - http://bit.ly/aTh6C5 | 18:43 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc4b3e1e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the calendar month template variables. Fixes bug #11472. - http://bit.ly/cIk03W | 18:43 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * re4299c6 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the calendar month template variables. Fixes bug #11472. - http://bit.ly/dmIoF8 | 18:44 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1637840 / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : Fix a syntax error in the wobject i18n file. - http://bit.ly/9o7D0N | 18:44 |
| +bartjol | ah | 18:46 |
| +bartjol | np | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | 8-12 new entries, and 4 edits | 18:46 |
| +bartjol | there goes my morning | 18:48 |
| +bartjol | at least, half an hour of it | 18:48 |
| +bartjol | maybe | 18:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I can make some tweaks to the transalation CGI if you want it to take more time | 18:49 |
| +bartjol | no thanks | 18:51 |
| +perlDreamer | as you wish | 18:51 |
| +bartjol | I finally spend all ning's karma | 18:51 |
| +bartjol | and, does backup.pl already has POD? | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 18:52 |
| +bartjol | why not? | 18:53 |
| +bartjol | and now? | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | because you haven't written it yet? | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | :) | 18:54 |
| +bartjol | ah | 18:54 |
| +bartjol | well, there I go | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | that's why we should file a bug and assign it to SynQ | 18:54 |
| +bartjol | I can do that at home tonight | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | do you have commit access to that repo? | 18:56 |
| +bartjol | of copurse not | 18:57 |
| +bartjol | but I can make it, and give it to someone who does | 18:57 |
| +bartjol | I don have any commit access | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | post it as a bug, or drop me an email and it will be added | 18:59 |
| +bartjol | can you move rfe? to bug status, and assign it to me | 19:00 |
| +bartjol | ? | 19:00 |
| +bartjol | that link I pasted | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 19:02 |
| +bartjol | excellent | 19:03 |
| +bartjol | well, I suppose it? feeding time | 19:06 |
| +bartjol | I must change my keyboard settings... | 19:06 |
| +bartjol | pod writing tonight | 19:08 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4fa04a2 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix CSS and HTML errors in the Event Edit template. Fixes bug #11471. - http://bit.ly/dw2WMV | 19:25 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5869cfe / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Proper bug annotation. - http://bit.ly/dxCJAN | 19:26 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r5efa9bc / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix CSS and HTML errors in the Event Edit template. Fixes bug #11471. - http://bit.ly/bnuK6B | 19:27 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rea3d7e0 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Proper bug annotation. - http://bit.ly/aGEf0o | 19:27 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r5463f96 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move the package to the right directory - http://bit.ly/dddnGK | 19:27 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0a00583 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm): Force inheritPermissionsFromParent to work in all import scenarios. Also, fix handling of clearPackageFlag and setDefaultTemplate. - http://bit.ly/aSiDVR | 20:22 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rb526340 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm): Force inheritPermissionsFromParent to work in all import scenarios. Also, fix handling of clearPackageFlag and setDefaultTemplate. - http://bit.ly/bDzpR7 | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | deleting a remote tag is surprisingly difficult | 20:41 |
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| @Haarg | really? | 21:04 |
| @Haarg | can't you just git push origin :tag-name ? | 21:05 |
| +perlDreamer | nope | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, wait | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I didn't try with a colon | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I had to do this: git push origin :refs/tags/v7.8.13 | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | but I didn't try git push origin :v7.8.13 | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | bopbop: why do you think there should be a red X next to the attachment in a post? | 21:12 |
| @bopbop | because otherwise I have to save the post in order to get it to delete | 21:13 |
| @bopbop | so it gets emailed out again | 21:13 |
| @bopbop | then I have to edit, reattach, and save again | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | the X used to be there? | 21:13 |
| @bopbop | so it gets emailed out yet again | 21:13 |
| @bopbop | I believe so | 21:13 |
| @bopbop | before, you confirmed you wanted to delete the attachment then clicked the red X | 21:13 |
| @bopbop | the attachment went away and the browse field returned | 21:14 |
| @bopbop | all in the same screen... no saving | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll start checking old versions and see what happened | 21:14 |
| @bopbop | check in 7.5ish | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, it's not in 7.6 for sure | 21:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | No X in 7.5.40 | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | but there is an X next to an article | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | article attachment | 21:18 |
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| +perlDreamer | hm, but there's a note about it being removed | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | from the Post | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | apparently I pulled it out because it bypasses revision control | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | but that's the rub | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | if it starts obeying revision control again, then it will send out notices when the attachments are updated | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | bopbop: this is the bug in question: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9260 | 21:22 |
| @bopbop | well, I think it was a mistake | 21:23 |
| @bopbop | I don't think it needs to be deleted from the uploads directory | 21:23 |
| @bopbop | just the cs post | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | the cs post stores its attachments in the uploads directory | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | all attachments go in there | 21:24 |
| @bopbop | well, I can go ahead and do it how it has to be done now, I just don't appreciate the backlash from the users who are going to email me with "stop spamming my email" replies | 21:24 |
| @bopbop | after they get the email three times so I can change the image | 21:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | try changing the commit workflow to commit with approval | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | that may not send out the notification until it's approved | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | and would let you edit it several times | 21:25 |
| @bopbop | alright... I understand why this particular person wanted it changed, but I think the "fix" had larger implications for other users | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | We can always ask Doug to look at the larger situation and decide if we should change it. | 21:29 |
| * perlDreamer goes for a run | 21:30 | |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r16a2e4e / www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey.js : Fix some more surve JS i18n. - http://bit.ly/9Y815T | 23:21 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r6e5a437 / www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey.js : Fix some more surve JS i18n. - http://bit.ly/bRXmyf | 23:31 |
| --- Day changed Tue Mar 16 2010 | ||
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| Edlik | can anyone recommend a free hosting service for webGUI or does anyone know if 000webhost.com can host it? I havent been able to find out what os they use. | 14:23 |
| +bartjol | ah | 14:25 |
| +bartjol | well, there aren't many free webgui hosters I'm afraid | 14:25 |
| +bartjol | I don't know about 000webhost.com | 14:25 |
| +bartjol | root access isn't mentioned | 14:26 |
| +bartjol | So Edlik, I'm afraid you'll have to look somewhere else | 14:28 |
| +bartjol | you at least will have to go for the 5$/month, ssh access is included | 14:34 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 15:31 |
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| +bartjol | hey scott | 15:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | good morning, good WebGUI folks | 17:15 |
| +bartjol | hi | 17:22 |
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| +bartjol | perlDreamer: I'd like somefeedback on the implementation of the documentation I made | 17:39 |
| +perlDreamer | did you want informed feedback, or do you want me to wing it? | 17:40 |
| +bartjol | eeeh, the first sounds better, but "wing it" is unfamiliar to me | 17:40 |
| +bartjol | if it means "take over from you" that's ok ofcourse :P | 17:41 |
| +bartjol | no, I'll finish the stuff | 17:41 |
| +perlDreamer | wing it == shoot from the hip == improvise | 17:41 |
| +perlDreamer | for the wre.conf examples, this is what I would do | 17:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I would describe each option stand alone, which no hash syntax | 17:42 |
| +bartjol | I, I improvised | 17:42 |
| +bartjol | ah | 17:42 |
| +perlDreamer | then I would show a sample pieice of wre.conf in the correct format | 17:42 |
| +bartjol | so a bit like I did, but without the out-of-place hash syntax | 17:43 |
| +bartjol | and an examle | 17:43 |
| +bartjol | well, it is better than it was | 17:43 |
| +perlDreamer | totally | 17:44 |
| +perlDreamer | just having the POD is 80% of the solution | 17:44 |
| +perlDreamer | in fact, I can take what you wrote and do the tweaking that I'm suggesting | 17:45 |
| +perlDreamer | sound okay? | 17:45 |
| +bartjol | oh, well | 17:47 |
| +bartjol | depends whether you're looking for work or not | 17:47 |
| +bartjol | maybe for just one | 17:48 |
| +bartjol | so we have a nice cooperated example | 17:48 |
| +bartjol | and I can alter the rest of the scripts in wre/sbin | 17:48 |
| +bartjol | from POD view those are crap | 17:48 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, I'll do the backup one and commit it | 17:49 |
| +bartjol | great | 17:49 |
| +bartjol | I won't have the time for it till thursday | 17:50 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 17:54 |
| +bartjol | but it is missing for years | 17:54 |
| +bartjol | I dunno when the next official release of the wre will be | 17:55 |
| +bartjol | I should ask Koen I suppose | 17:55 |
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| +bartjol | he Tiler Parker | 17:56 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, maybe instead of putting wre.conf POD into lots of scripts, we should make one POD file for the whole wre.conf, and only document script options in each script? | 17:59 |
| +bartjol | I agree that the explanations might as well be in the conf | 18:01 |
| +bartjol | only, even with no options, you'll need a redirect from the POD of the script files | 18:01 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, we'll have to say something like | 18:01 |
| +perlDreamer | please see the BACKUP options part of wre.conf.pod | 18:01 |
| +bartjol | very large | 18:02 |
| +bartjol | that'd be ok | 18:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll pull the wre.conf stuff out of backup.pl, and start a wre.conf.pod file | 18:02 |
| +perlDreamer | then we can add to it pieces when needed | 18:02 |
| +bartjol | ah, that wre.conf file pod will be large :) | 18:03 |
| CIA-58 | wrebuild: Colin Kuskie master * r9250085 / wre/sbin/backup.pl : Add baseline POD to backup.pl - http://bit.ly/dtZB6d | 18:08 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, POD added | 18:08 |
| CIA-58 | wrebuild: Colin Kuskie master * r1f146da / wre/sbin/wre.conf.pod : Begin documenting the wre.conf file. - http://bit.ly/cClgyr | 18:08 |
| +bartjol | cool | 18:10 |
| * perlDreamer goes to the gym. I'll add the other files when I come back | 18:15 | |
| +bartjol | oh well, I have to go too | 18:16 |
| +bartjol | I'll see the results, but don't overdo it | 18:16 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, sir! | 18:16 |
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| CIA-58 | wrebuild: Colin Kuskie master * r78edb05 / (wre/sbin/logrotate.pl wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl): Add POD to logrotate and wreconsole scripts. - http://bit.ly/bNevDR | 19:46 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfb14f13 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm): Add labels to the Layout templates so they show up in Shortcut overrides. Fixes bug #11476. - http://bit.ly/cYdKzw | 20:05 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r2465da4 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm): Add labels to the Layout templates so they show up in Shortcut overrides. Fixes bug #11476. - http://bit.ly/ddqrDa | 20:05 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop master * r1919973 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm): fixed: Unable to add threads with permission to edit CS but not in post group - http://bit.ly/bafugN | 20:21 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * r34967f7 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm): fixed: Unable to add threads with permission to edit CS but not in post group - http://bit.ly/9Sf1tT | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | nice find, haarg | 20:28 |
| @Haarg | i finally added a thing to wgdev for running across multiple sites | 20:43 |
| @Haarg | so if you had a package to install on every site, you can do wgd for-each --exec="wgd package -i ~/fix.wgpkg" | 20:44 |
| +perlDreamer | nice! | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I really want to install wgd on the servers I have to maintain | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | at least for the ease of saying wgd db --config myConfig.conf | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | I hate having to find the db auth info in the config files | 20:47 |
| @Haarg | ./Build distexec && scp wgd-v0.5.0 server:wgd | 20:48 |
| @Haarg | i usually end up sticking the single-file version on servers i'm working on | 20:48 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not the mechanics, it's the permissions issue | 20:48 |
| @Haarg | how so? | 20:49 |
| +perlDreamer | well, I just don't know whether or not I'm allowed to install software on the sites that I maintain | 20:49 |
| @Haarg | ah | 20:49 |
| @Haarg | well, that's why i just stick it leaving it in my home directory | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | that would work | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | did you get my reply about Paths? | 20:51 |
| @Haarg | i got a reply and responded | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | so for people who are not WRE users (and there seem to be more and more of these), they'd just need to setup PERL5LIB themselves | 20:53 |
| @Haarg | yes | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | in that case, I don't have any other questions or issues | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | just impatient to get it! | 20:53 |
| @Haarg | and the apache config would need to be adjusted somewhat | 20:53 |
| @Haarg | but it's basically just setting the perl include path | 20:53 |
| @Haarg | instead of setting the WebGUI root path | 20:54 |
| +perlDreamer | that's not bad. It should be in the migration instructions | 20:54 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9810b57 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix double slash removal in FilePump macro. Fixes bug #11478. - http://bit.ly/b1jv9I | 21:07 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r01267d2 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix double slash removal in FilePump macro. Fixes bug #11478. - http://bit.ly/d6vqcb | 21:09 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf8dba07 / lib/WebGUI/FilePump/Bundle.pm : Remove debug code from FilePump. - http://bit.ly/dpz1QR | 21:27 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r57f9f8e / lib/WebGUI/FilePump/Bundle.pm : Remove debug code from FilePump. - http://bit.ly/cASCTJ | 21:27 |
| +patspam | perlDreamer++ | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks man :) | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | It had me day dreaming about a small, slow, pure perl HTTP daemon that I could use for writing live WebGUI tests | 21:30 |
| +patspam | it's here! | 21:30 |
| +patspam | the psgi branch + Plack::Test | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | psgi branch? Not PlebGUI? | 21:31 |
| +patspam | the psgi branch is branched off wg8 | 21:32 |
| +patspam | with apache ripped out altogether | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I see. | 21:32 |
| +patspam | it's about 1/3rd done | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | so, in wg8 we will have live testing goodness, but for now we live with the sweet dreams and devious testing plans | 21:33 |
| +patspam | it's a true story | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | have you seen the recent Test::Class work in the wg8 branch? | 21:35 |
| +patspam | no - I haven't had time to look at wg8 at all | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm 90% done with setting up a framework for testing base asset methods in every asset. | 21:36 |
| +patspam | awesome | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Ovid's Test::Class tutorial helped a lot | 21:37 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r90cd1ac / docs/upgrades/packages-7.9.1/root_import_survey_default-survey-edit.wgpkg : change connect to connection in the edit survey template. | 22:38 |
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| * perlDreamer heads out to pick up kids from school | 23:05 | |
| +perlDreamer | oy | 23:42 |
| --- Day changed Wed Mar 17 2010 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | later, everyone :) | 01:58 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra7b4fbc / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix thread search URLs when threads are archived, or trashed. Location in the pagination is now found by interrupted linear search. - http://bit.ly/cRYQIL | 03:30 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1126228 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix thread search URLs when threads are archived, or trashed. Location in the pagination is now found by interrupted linear search. - http://bit.ly/bIctZD | 03:53 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r47bd383 / t/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.t : Always skip the autocommit. Did this in response to an unrepeatable test failure. - http://bit.ly/bsr1XR | 03:53 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r570cdfd / t/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.t : Always skip the autocommit. Did this in response to an unrepeatable test failure. - http://bit.ly/b94Buc | 03:53 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rbe8fe94 / docs/upgrades/packages-7.8.15/root_import_survey_default-survey-edit.wgpkg : Fix a bad path in included YUI JS. connect => connection - http://bit.ly/9HFUym | 03:56 |
| +perlDreamer | yo, tavisto | 03:57 |
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| +patspam | WebGUI::Definition::Meta::Class::get_attributes line 157 spent 4.90s making 104600 calls to Class::MOP::Class::find_attribute_by_name | 05:04 |
| +patspam | (that's for 100 requests) | 05:05 |
| +patspam | measuring across 100 requests to the front page of the default site, half the response time is spent in WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Navigation::view | 05:17 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r1080d3a / lib/WebGUI.pm : WebGUI is now a one-liner ;) - http://bit.ly/a3y3uB | 05:27 |
| +patspam | starting a local webgui server is now reduced to: plackup -MWebGUI -e 'WebGUI->new' | 05:28 |
| +patspam | or: plackup -MWebGUI -e 'WebGUI->new("site.com.conf")' | 05:29 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r41d84c3 / (etc/dev.localhost.localdomain.psgi benchmark.pl): Added benchmark script for NYTProf-ing - http://bit.ly/bzl5yQ | 05:35 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1ca8dc1 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.8.15 release. - http://bit.ly/dp2A6L | 05:37 |
| +perlDreamer | mmmm, placky goodness | 05:41 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * re5c786e / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.16 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/crM3AD | 06:07 |
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| SquOnk | Greetings. | 15:09 |
| SquOnk | I found a .DS_Store file in the released tarball :/ | 15:10 |
| SquOnk | lib/WebGUI/i18n/Dutch/.DS_Store | 15:10 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 15:43 |
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| SDuensin | Quiet today. | 17:40 |
| +perlDreamer | very | 17:47 |
| SDuensin | They must all know I have odd questions to ask and are HIDING! | 17:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I fear thee not | 17:58 |
| SDuensin | Good. :-) | 17:59 |
| SDuensin | I need to do a single-sign on from WebGUI to another system. | 17:59 |
| +perlDreamer | can the other system do remote database queries for Auth? | 18:06 |
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| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, did you see my earlier question back about SSO? | 19:50 |
| SDuensin | Yes, the other system can query the MySQL database. However, I don't want to just auth against the data from WebGUI, I want to know if the user is logged *in* on WebGUI. | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | why? | 19:54 |
| SDuensin | Because it's the auth provider. Guess it doesn't have to be. | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | being able to authenticate against WebGUI is different from knowing whether or not the user is currently logged into WebGUI | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | that's meta info, and not really related to the question of Auth | 19:58 |
| +perlDreamer | like OpenID. It doesn't care if I'm logged into Google or Yahoo or whatever | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | it just verifies I am who I am | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | or who I claim to be | 19:59 |
| SDuensin | Yea, we'll forget that part. | 20:00 |
| +perlDreamer | it's cool that you get to do some WebGUI work. Is it related to $dayJob? | 20:03 |
| SDuensin | I've leeched off the WebGUI auth database before. I just hate poking around under the hood. | 20:03 |
| SDuensin | No. $dayJob is too brain dead for decent software. | 20:03 |
| SDuensin | But this could become $dayJob if the ad revenue kicks in. | 20:04 |
| SDuensin | Some friends and I are building a Steam knock-off for classic games. | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | your other option is to try the experimental OpenID stuff from The Bazaar, and have WebGUI be an OpenID provider | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | I know it will authenticate against OpenID, but I don't know if it will work the other way around | 20:05 |
| SDuensin | Eh, I don't like OpenID. itsWay@tooClunky.com | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | or, you could write a custom URL Handler that will return the status of Auth requests against WebGUI's Auth system | 20:06 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, I'm at a dead end | 20:06 |
| SDuensin | I was hoping to stick to a stable API, but the server code that needs to talk to it is in Java. | 20:07 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't see any way to mix Moose Native Types and some kind of serialization Trait that also provides "handles" methods at the attribute level. | 20:07 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I'm going to try the more straight forward route of mixing in another Role that works at the attribute meta level | 20:08 |
| +perlDreamer | then I can say things like | 20:10 |
| +perlDreamer | if ($attribute->does('WebGUI::Definition::Meta::Property::Serialize')) { $value = $attribute->serialize_value; } | 20:10 |
| @Haarg | iirc i had problems with that | 20:14 |
| @Haarg | does wasn't working on attribute metaclasses | 20:14 |
| +perlDreamer | oy | 20:14 |
| +perlDreamer | then I'll try using ->can | 20:14 |
| +perlDreamer | did you file a bug about that? | 20:15 |
| @Haarg | no | 20:16 |
| * perlDreamer chides Haarg about not being a good open source citizen | 20:18 | |
| @Haarg | it's one of those things i wasn't sure if it was intended, and we were also doing some odd things with metaclasses | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | It would be a good way to find out just how dangerous we're being. | 20:21 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rb62c350 / lib/WebGUI/PerformanceProfiler.pm : Swap out Net::Subnets for Net::CIDR::Lite in PerformanceProfiler. - http://bit.ly/aFRWc7 | 22:25 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re77b2b9 / lib/WebGUI/PerformanceProfiler.pm : Swap out Net::Subnets for Net::CIDR::Lite in PerformanceProfiler. - http://bit.ly/bpCfEQ | 22:25 |
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| * patspam looks at Alloy UI | 23:21 | |
| +patspam | (re RFE #10611) | 23:22 |
| SDuensin | Alloy? | 23:22 |
| +patspam | it's a component library for YUI 3 | 23:22 |
| * SDuensin is a GWT fan himself. | 23:23 | |
| +patspam | secretly I want to ditch YUI for jQuery | 23:23 |
| +patspam | but jQuery doesn't have a built in UI library either | 23:23 |
| SDuensin | I used to like Ext until they went all license crazy. | 23:24 |
| +patspam | yeah me too! | 23:24 |
| +patspam | I convinced JT we should start using InputEx as a YUI forms library, but AlloyUI might be a better alternative | 23:24 |
| * patspam staggers off to recover after spending 2 hours on the phone to the IRS | 23:26 | |
| SDuensin | Ewww | 23:26 |
| SDuensin | Oh. It's from the Liferay people. Interesting. | 23:27 |
| +patspam | "Liferay Portal is an enterprise web platform for building business solutions that deliver immediate results and long-term value" | 23:29 |
| +patspam | Product X is a product that delivers a product | 23:29 |
| SDuensin | Yea, I know. It's the only other thing I seriously considered along with WebGUI. :-P | 23:30 |
| SDuensin | It keeps poking it's nose into my life because of people gluing it to Alfresco. | 23:30 |
| +patspam | ah, Java based | 23:31 |
| SDuensin | To me, that's not a drawback. :-P | 23:31 |
| +patspam | their web design is really nice | 23:32 |
| SDuensin | Liferay isn't bad. Their security system tends to be over-thought and can cause problems. Lots of stuff needs updated to work with their latest and greatest. Overall though, it looks pretty powerful. | 23:33 |
| +perlDreamer | mmm, yui Blog | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | you've been holding out on us, patspam | 23:35 |
| +patspam | I have? | 23:35 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 23:35 |
| SDuensin | Alloy looks nice. | 23:35 |
| SDuensin | Especially that inline edit. Hint, hint! | 23:35 |
| SDuensin | Ok, the Liferay site is entirely different from when I last visited. | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I didn't know that WebGUI 8 was going to use YUI 3 | 23:36 |
| +perlDreamer | especially since very few of the components we use (like DataTable) were available in YUI3 last time I checked | 23:36 |
| +patspam | I think you can use YUI2 components inside YUI3 | 23:37 |
| * perlDreamer will read more and try not to be so ignorant | 23:38 | |
| @Haarg | so i was thinking about a better way to do upgrades | 23:39 |
| +perlDreamer | PLEASE! | 23:40 |
| @Haarg | http://github.com/haarg/webgui/tree/upgrades | 23:40 |
| @Haarg | WebGUI::Upgrade is very rough, but enough to demonstrate my thoughts for upgrade scripts | 23:40 |
| SDuensin | FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YES! | 23:41 |
| @Haarg | specifically, http://github.com/haarg/webgui/blob/662e304b51698667a8de766e81a67d63d80a1dfb/var/upgrades/7.8.3-7.9.3/script2.pl | 23:41 |
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| +patspam | the boilerplate will be fondly missed | 23:42 |
| SDuensin | Not by me! | 23:42 |
| SDuensin | FOOOOOOOOD! | 23:42 |
| +patspam | heh I thought you liked Java? | 23:42 |
| @Haarg | currently has config, session, report, done. probably worth having dbh as well. only initialized when used, so you could do perl stuff against dbh without a session getting created | 23:42 |
| SDuensin | I do! It's super easy to bolt things together with it. | 23:43 |
| @Haarg | needs to also recognize wgpkg files, sql files | 23:43 |
| @Haarg | probably some other file types | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | we used to have separate SQL files, but then they were all merged together | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't remember the reason why they were merged | 23:44 |
| +perlDreamer | but what's the advantage of having them separate? | 23:44 |
| @Haarg | if you have a lot of sql it's just easier | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | can we program in stop versions? | 23:45 |
| @Haarg | probably needs something for that yes | 23:45 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't get upgrade_file_pl | 23:49 |
| @Haarg | how so? | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | it just installs the script contents into the correct namespace? | 23:49 |
| @Haarg | basically | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | why do that vs "use WebGUI::Package::Script;" | 23:49 |
| @Haarg | i don't quite follow | 23:50 |
| @Haarg | use WebGUI::Package::Script; where? | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | inside the actual scripts | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | each script needs to be able to call report, session, done, etc. | 23:50 |
| @Haarg | less boilerplate | 23:51 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 23:52 |
| +perlDreamer | could we put the versions into scripts, instead of hardcoding them by name? | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | it would make moving them between versions a lot easier | 23:54 |
| @Haarg | i don't follow what you mean by putting versions into scripts | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | right now, we figure out which scripts to run by looking at directory names | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | and the directory names have versions number in them | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | when I cherry pick between branches (major/minor WebGUI versions), they have to be renamed and/or moved | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | never mind | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | it's just shifting problems | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | if we put the version information into the files, then you'd have to edit the files when they're moved | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | which is probably easier than what we have today | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | and doesn't work for packages | 23:57 |
| @Haarg | i know that is annoying but i haven't figured out a good way to deal with it | 23:57 |
| --- Day changed Thu Mar 18 2010 | ||
| +perlDreamer | I think this will help | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | since it'll be easier to move files around rather than merge subroutines between scripts | 00:02 |
| @Haarg | and it will probably do better at merging if you are modifying existing upgrades | 00:03 |
| @Haarg | any other file types you can think of or any other util subs for the scripts? | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | the order the files in the directory are executed depends on their names? | 00:05 |
| @Haarg | yes | 00:05 |
| +perlDreamer | dbh would just be an alias for $session->db, so I wouldn't worry about that | 00:06 |
| @Haarg | i was thinking of making it a raw DBI handle, bypassing WebGUI::SQL | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't suppose you've tucked a WebGUI::SQL refactor into your schedule, have you? | 00:07 |
| @Haarg | not entirely | 00:07 |
| @Haarg | got half way done with rewriting the logging | 00:08 |
| @Haarg | so that raw dbi calls were logged just like our wrappers | 00:08 |
| @Haarg | which would eliminate the only useful part of most of the wrappers | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | totally | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I know I sound like a broken record, but it'd be way better to subclass DBI than wrap it | 00:10 |
| @Haarg | i agree | 00:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I've got a solution worked out for the JSON attributes. | 00:14 |
| +perlDreamer | Start with a type, so that we can coerce data from the db into perl datastructures automatically | 00:14 |
| +perlDreamer | then, we extend the Meta property and add a "serialize" attribute to it | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | which signals to the write method to serialize the data by hand instead of taking the raw attribute value | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | it'd be nice to extend Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::Trait::Array to add some collateral handling functions | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | but I can't find a way to extend any of the methods | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | the list that is initialized is hardcoded | 00:17 |
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| @Haarg | think it is worth making a util function somewhere for making a dbh based on a config file, or should i wait until WebGUI::SQL can be refactored to not need a session? | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd wait, it sounds like it's just a stop gap until the real work can be done | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | any thoughts on my approach to JSON in the db? | 00:49 |
| @Haarg | well, if i don't make a util function for it i have to copy-paste the code instead | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | this if for WebGUI::Upgrade? | 00:50 |
| @Haarg | yeah | 00:50 |
| @Haarg | need to be able to connect to the database without creating a session | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | I still think you should copy/paste it for now | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | less testing | 00:51 |
| @Haarg | with the json thing | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | brb | 00:52 |
| @Haarg | you are just thinking we have an extra property meta-attribute to flag a need for serialization | 00:52 |
| @Haarg | and write handles all the heavy lifting? | 00:52 |
| @Haarg | that seems good for now | 00:52 |
| @Haarg | might consider trying to move it into the attributes somehow at some point, but i'm not sure there's really any advantage to doing that | 00:53 |
| +perlDreamer | It would be nice to have the serialization encapsulated in the attribute so that we could swap it all out, or use different engines | 00:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll mock up what I'm thinking, then send you a paste | 00:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | ...after I clean up disk space on TGC again | 01:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, these tests all pass for me: http://gist.github.com/335892 | 01:56 |
| +perlDreamer | do they pass for you, too? | 01:56 |
| Getty | opera makes me sick | 01:58 |
| +perlDreamer | try rock and roll instead | 01:58 |
| Getty | hehe | 01:59 |
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| Getty | i dont get it | 02:05 |
| Getty | <div class="rapidev_form_name rapidev_form_name_auktion_Objekte_0"></div> | 02:07 |
| Getty | this is the "faulty code" | 02:07 |
| Getty | its totally next to the element that fails (not inside, or around, its totally next to it) | 02:07 |
| Getty | if i have it in, the ajax fileupload doesnt get triggered | 02:08 |
| Getty | if i remove it, it works | 02:08 |
| Getty | crazy shit... and then people ask me why i hate opera so much | 02:08 |
| Getty | ah also not really | 02:13 |
| Getty | just in small case | 02:13 |
| Getty | in bigger scale its not that again | 02:13 |
| Getty | 8-) | 02:13 |
| Getty | oh man | 02:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | hey, preaction! | 06:23 |
| +perlDreamer | ... or preaction's bot. whomever you are | 06:23 |
| @preaction | preaction has no bot. he's not cool enough | 06:23 |
| +perlDreamer | only preaction's bot would say that | 06:24 |
| +perlDreamer | he's always dissin' on preaction | 06:24 |
| @preaction | but only preaction's bot would deny being preaction's bot, so there you go | 06:24 |
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| -!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.8.15-stable | 7.9.0-beta | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com | 12:35 | |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 15:37 |
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| +bartjol | done migrating | 15:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | taking kids to school, bbiab | 16:41 |
| SDuensin | ko | 16:44 |
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| +perlDreamer | phew | 17:01 |
| +perlDreamer | last day before spring break, and they are wound up! | 17:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | bartjol, I have some Dutch culture questions for you | 17:18 |
| +perlDreamer | At the WUC, you mentioned that sometimes Dutch people are complainers. Up to the point where if there's no complaining that something is wrong. | 17:19 |
| +perlDreamer | Am I remembering correctly? | 17:19 |
| -!- cap10morgan_ is now known as cap10morgan | 17:20 | |
| +bartjol | yes | 17:20 |
| +bartjol | you are | 17:20 |
| +perlDreamer | Do Dutch people like to barter? | 17:21 |
| +perlDreamer | If we agree to something, will the Dutch come back and ask for more, and more? | 17:22 |
| +bartjol | not especially | 17:22 |
| +bartjol | but clients always do | 17:23 |
| +bartjol | if we don't barter we have more to complain about | 17:23 |
| +perlDreamer | so it's probably safe to say, "yes you can have this but it will cost extra, you compaining Dutch cheapo" ?? | 17:25 |
| +bartjol | but if there is free stuff we will come back, and complain if it isn't free anymore | 17:25 |
| +bartjol | well, maybe to the people you know you can tell it in that words | 17:26 |
| +bartjol | but to other people it might be a bit..... | 17:26 |
| +bartjol | rude | 17:26 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll try s/,.+$//; | 17:26 |
| +perlDreamer | I should hire you as a consultant on foreign relations | 17:27 |
| +bartjol | I really hate it that you also help me, otherwise I could have send an invoice | 17:28 |
| +perlDreamer | me help you? I thought I just complained about the lack of documentation | 17:28 |
| +perlDreamer | No POD | 17:28 |
| +perlDreamer | No remodeling pictures | 17:28 |
| +bartjol | and when I could have, I would complain about the cheap dollar | 17:28 |
| +bartjol | yeah, and then I got a bug assigned | 17:29 |
| +perlDreamer | You asked that it be assigned | 17:29 |
| +bartjol | that I tell you that you may assign it to me, does not mean you have to do that | 17:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I didn't know the dollar had recovered against the EU | 17:29 |
| +bartjol | I'm just being dutch | 17:30 |
| +bartjol | it didn't | 17:30 |
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| +bartjol | so, back to nice and friendly | 17:34 |
| +perlDreamer | okay :) | 17:34 |
| * SDuensin needs a channel like #InsaneProgrammers. | 17:34 | |
| +bartjol | so we wouldn't bother you here? | 17:35 |
| SDuensin | So I could get people to help me with my nutty ideas! | 17:35 |
| +bartjol | ah, we are not nutty enough for you, eh | 17:36 |
| * perlDreamer puts on his pistachio aftershave | 17:36 | |
| SDuensin | Like my "Frost" project. I've been working on an API to remotely install classic games for people. Nobody to bounce that off of to see if they think it'll work or not. | 17:37 |
| +bartjol | mmm, #vintagegames ? | 17:40 |
| SDuensin | Well, the games are, but the code is all new. :-) | 17:41 |
| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, how many people are really going to want to play Lounge Suit Larry in the Land of the Lizards? | 17:50 |
| SDuensin | ME! I even have a T-Shirt for that game! | 17:51 |
| SDuensin | On the back it says, "What do you want? Good taste or good graphics?" | 17:51 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re076ecb / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add tests for traits and coercion for JSON in the db. - http://bit.ly/d3jg6q | 18:01 |
| +perlDreamer | it works, Haarg! | 18:01 |
| @Haarg | cool | 18:04 |
| @Haarg | could probably make a short name for that trait | 18:04 |
| +perlDreamer | That would be nice. You mean an alias, or just a new name? | 18:05 |
| @Haarg | alias | 18:07 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb0cad3b / (lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Comments.pm): Remove get and update overrides in Asset::Role::Comments - http://bit.ly/cZ3d6i | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | that last bit still needs tests | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | time to review Moose::Manual::MethodModifiers, to find the equivalent of C3's next::method | 18:13 |
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| +bartjol | mmm doubting whether I feel like writing pod tonight | 18:31 |
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| kimd | preaction, are you informed about the status of template revision concerning the gallery? | 19:22 |
| kimd | I read about new templates being available for testing. | 19:22 |
| kimd | I am asking because I am working on drag'n'drop sorting again. | 19:23 |
| SDuensin | New gallery template? Ooo. | 19:23 |
| kimd | I would like to move the feature to the album edit screen. | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | kimd, nothing has been added to 7.9 yet, so it should be fine | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | just post to the RFE that you're going to do it | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | so there's no awkwardness in doing it twice | 19:24 |
| kimd | Cool! | 19:25 |
| kimd | Thanks, perlDreamer! | 19:25 |
| -!- Getty [torsten@conflictindustries.org] has joined #webgui | 19:42 | |
| +perlDreamer | kimd, do you and Getty know each other? | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | kimd, meet Getty, perl programmer and new WebGUI convert from Germany | 19:55 |
| +perlDreamer | Getty, meet kimd, professional climber, perl hacker and WebGUI user/dev from Germany | 19:56 |
| Getty | oh ok ;) | 19:59 |
| Getty | but i'm not really a convert ;) | 20:02 |
| Getty | actually i'm near to switch away from WebGUI | 20:02 |
| Getty | even tho i must say its really impressive system, but its too impressive (as in: it confuses me again hehe) | 20:02 |
| SDuensin | Don't leave! You'll only end up in tears! | 20:03 |
| Getty | its always kind of sad, that at a given level of size of a CMS its nearly impossible to stay at the "simple things done simple" way | 20:03 |
| Getty | SDuensin: hehehe, its still a good CMS :) i will always make promo for it | 20:03 |
| SDuensin | I was foolish and ran a site on Drupal. Also ran one on Joomla. <shudders> | 20:04 |
| Getty | hehehehe | 20:04 |
| Getty | when i came to my new company | 20:04 |
| Getty | my boss had a project on his todolist which he wanted to make with drupal | 20:04 |
| Getty | after 1 work-week (so just worktime!!) he was 95% done, but said he needs probably a week more for the last 5% | 20:05 |
| Getty | then i made a CMS in 1 day, and my boss remade the site in 2 days | 20:05 |
| Getty | all that CMS lag one thing: simplicity | 20:06 |
| Getty | simple things done easy | 20:06 |
| Getty | I worked the last 2 years in my old company with a "top (commercial) CMS" which brakes the market right now | 20:06 |
| Getty | it feels so dirty if you actually earn money with code that is coming straight from hell LOL ;) | 20:07 |
| SDuensin | WebGUI is easy. You just need to learn how it does things. | 20:07 |
| SDuensin | ehheheehe | 20:07 |
| Getty | webgui is at some level a bit complex and its not that easy to modify "little things" but that is somehow a logical effect out of a specific dimension | 20:08 |
| SDuensin | Like what little things? I find it quite easy to bend to my will. | 20:08 |
| Getty | could be probably i just dont know where | 20:09 |
| Getty | for example, lets take themes | 20:09 |
| Getty | what i dont get is the way to use a specific layout | 20:09 |
| Getty | especially if its bigger... dont know, probably i'M just to stupid hehe ;) | 20:09 |
| SDuensin | Every page can have it's own layout. You just select what you want in the properties of the PageLayout. | 20:09 |
| Getty | yeah | 20:10 |
| * SDuensin guesses he doesn't understand. | 20:11 | |
| Getty | i probably really should learn WebGUI, but its an act between my own will to make CMS and fixing myself to reality of someone else | 20:11 |
| Getty | hey i have a custom layout :-P i know it | 20:11 |
| Getty | http://www.raudssus.de/ | 20:11 |
| SDuensin | I set off to write my own CMS a few times. Then realized I was re-implementing WebGUI. :-D | 20:11 |
| Getty | hehehe | 20:11 |
| Getty | i would not really reimplement WebGUI | 20:12 |
| SDuensin | Your site looks fine. What do you want to do? | 20:12 |
| Getty | oh i dont know | 20:12 |
| Getty | actually i would like to make it look simple | 20:12 |
| Getty | add a twitter/facebook link, make the blog looks nice ;) | 20:13 |
| SDuensin | Well, to style the blog, you need to make a copy of the existing template that it's using and then modify the copy. | 20:13 |
| SDuensin | (That way, when you upgrade WebGUI, your changes don't get erased.) | 20:14 |
| Getty | yeah | 20:14 |
| Getty | you really want me todo anything with WebGUI, eh? ;) | 20:14 |
| SDuensin | Well, it does everything! No reason not to use it! :-D | 20:15 |
| Getty | hehe, beside its not my code!! 8-) | 20:15 |
| Getty | you should check http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/ that is running on my Framework ;) | 20:15 |
| SDuensin | Trying to load it. (My connection is terrible.) | 20:16 |
| Getty | but that points out a problem with most CMS (especially joomla and drupal hehe), its hard for a professional programmer to jump in easy. Actually if you are expert its as hard as being a beginner | 20:16 |
| Getty | that is always a big bummer for the coders (even tho not a bummer for the standard user) | 20:16 |
| SDuensin | WebGUI has a nice API. Books, too. | 20:17 |
| Getty | yeah but that doesnt fix the problem :) | 20:17 |
| Getty | you need to understand many many stuff before you can actually do things really like you used to | 20:17 |
| Getty | as i said: not really a problem, that is just cause the complexity kicks in | 20:18 |
| Getty | how long you do WebGUI? | 20:18 |
| SDuensin | Nice looking site. Wouldn't be hard to do in WebGUI at all. :-P | 20:18 |
| Getty | the page has over 1 Mio. pages | 20:18 |
| Getty | its a bit complex with the import export events at the backend | 20:18 |
| SDuensin | Long time. And I remember trying to learn it the first time. It seems strange. | 20:19 |
| Getty | but i do a real cool usage of static files | 20:19 |
| SDuensin | No way I'd build without it now. Not unless I absolutely HAD to. | 20:19 |
| Getty | i put on PHP Array on start of every page and just startup my framework, that way most pages are even served "dynamic static" 100% | 20:19 |
| Getty | if you would have my framework you wouldnt think much, cause you just do it | 20:20 |
| Getty | thats why i called it RapiDev ;) dont think, just code | 20:20 |
| SDuensin | I don't need code. I just build. | 20:20 |
| Getty | but i wanna code!!!111 ;) | 20:21 |
| SDuensin | Then help me build my crazy game network. :-P | 20:21 |
| Getty | lol i got my own game development team ;) | 20:21 |
| Getty | www.conflictindustries.org (or playerid.net :-P) | 20:21 |
| SDuensin | Nice. My team is "me". | 20:21 |
| Getty | if you need resources or technology just ask ;) thats our job hehe | 20:22 |
| Getty | with playerid.net i want to setup a central registration/playeridentity concept for general gaming | 20:22 |
| SDuensin | I always need art. Problem is, I also always need money. :-P | 20:22 |
| Getty | hehehe | 20:22 |
| Getty | i got lots of art dudes, but the problem is more to have decent coder ;) | 20:23 |
| SDuensin | Ever look at Unity3D? | 20:23 |
| Getty | dont think so.. could be | 20:24 |
| Getty | the good engine coders arent anyway somewhere public | 20:24 |
| Getty | and engine coders are morons p.d. | 20:24 |
| Getty | its really hard to make decent "contracts" with them | 20:25 |
| SDuensin | Take a look at Unity3D. It's really nice. | 20:25 |
| Getty | oh you mean the ENGINE... | 20:26 |
| Getty | but that is commercial | 20:26 |
| Getty | cant work with that | 20:26 |
| SDuensin | There's two. One is free. | 20:26 |
| Getty | conflict industries is 100% OpenSource and 100% CC | 20:26 |
| Getty | yeah but i still dont have rights to the engine | 20:27 |
| Getty | our primary target is also to LEARN about game development, if you take the shiny stuff you cant learn anything ;) hehe | 20:27 |
| SDuensin | I try and stay open as well. Not that picky though. :-) | 20:27 |
| Getty | defining workflows for game development, setting up infrastructure to manage gamedevelopers | 20:27 |
| SDuensin | Ah yea, well, I learned. Tired of writing renderers. | 20:28 |
| Getty | like sourceforge.net for games | 20:28 |
| Getty | you did write renderers? | 20:28 |
| Getty | so you are an engine developer :D | 20:28 |
| Getty | dont you wanna help? ;) | 20:28 |
| SDuensin | Not anymore. | 20:28 |
| SDuensin | I'm pre-pixel shaders and fancy GPUs. | 20:29 |
| Getty | you know cubeengine? | 20:29 |
| SDuensin | Know of it. Never programmed with it. | 20:30 |
| Getty | we started now doing a fork of assaultcube | 20:30 |
| Getty | but we are again in dispute about chnaging engine | 20:30 |
| Getty | this weekend there should be a final decision | 20:30 |
| Getty | if we go with assaultcube engine or sauerbraten engine | 20:30 |
| Getty | sauerbraten is just.... a bit more resource intensive | 20:30 |
| Getty | and our first game should be a total LOW LOW LOW power game | 20:30 |
| Getty | so that many people can get into it and also many people can develop for it | 20:30 |
| Getty | (or based on it) | 20:31 |
| Getty | NP: Battlestar Galactica (the original series) :) | 20:34 |
| SDuensin | Cool | 20:35 |
| Getty | so come on dude, help us :) | 20:35 |
| Getty | be part of conflict industries | 20:36 |
| Getty | and support game development in general | 20:36 |
| Getty | we got cookies! (aehm server) | 20:36 |
| SDuensin | I don't have time. I'm waaaaay backed up on my own projects. | 20:36 |
| Getty | hey just be there, and we will see what comes out | 20:36 |
| Getty | probably other people of the team can also help you | 20:36 |
| Getty | are you on quakenet? | 20:36 |
| SDuensin | no | 20:37 |
| Getty | why????? ;) | 20:37 |
| Getty | you do stuff with gaming and you are not on quakenet??? ;) | 20:37 |
| Getty | dude!!!! | 20:37 |
| SDuensin | Quake was 20 years ago. :-P | 20:37 |
| Getty | hehehehe | 20:37 |
| Getty | quakenet is the shit | 20:37 |
| Getty | its required for game development | 20:37 |
| Getty | nearly all developers are there | 20:37 |
| SDuensin | http://www.jaegertech.net/software/multiplayer-game-server | 20:38 |
| Getty | LOL :) | 20:38 |
| Getty | cool | 20:38 |
| Getty | oh thats by you? awesome | 20:38 |
| SDuensin | Long time ago. | 20:38 |
| SDuensin | Yea. | 20:38 |
| Getty | we definitly need you in the team ;) | 20:39 |
| SDuensin | hehe | 20:39 |
| Getty | i need more dudes who know what they do | 20:39 |
| Getty | big part of the teams are children | 20:39 |
| SDuensin | Wish I had time. Hell, if I did, I'd go do some of the games on my list that I've designed. | 20:40 |
| Getty | come please easily join us | 20:40 |
| Getty | and be on our IRC | 20:40 |
| Getty | and we will see what comes out | 20:40 |
| Getty | we dont have deadlines, or put anyone into stress | 20:40 |
| Getty | we are very slow in progress but we dont stress | 20:40 |
| SDuensin | I've got over a dozen projects on my development server alone. Plus around 20 web sites I take care of. Oh, and a real job. And two kids. :-P | 20:41 |
| Getty | lol! | 20:41 |
| Getty | still :) | 20:41 |
| @preaction | heh, you've almost reached my level of ambition ;) | 20:42 |
| Getty | just be there, even if you just can answer questions sometimes it help :) | 20:42 |
| Getty | preaction: what? :) | 20:42 |
| Getty | preaction: you wanna helP? | 20:42 |
| @preaction | dozens of projects, hundreds of websites, normal job | 20:42 |
| SDuensin | I have my own little private sourceforge like site. :-) | 20:43 |
| @preaction | sorry, i've got my hands wrapped up in a SWF MMORPG (one that doesn't suck, a tall order) | 20:43 |
| Getty | preaction: do they need resources? | 20:43 |
| SDuensin | Single White Female? | 20:43 |
| Getty | preaction: would love to help with hosting facilities | 20:43 |
| @preaction | Getty: we might, in the future. right now we just started the company | 20:43 |
| @preaction | SDuensin: SWF is the "Flash" file format. run on the flash vm (or Adobe AIR, or soon iPhone) | 20:44 |
| Getty | preaction: ah its company | 20:44 |
| SDuensin | preaction - That's funny. I have an engine for that, too. :-) | 20:44 |
| @preaction | yes. i'm the CTO, so we'll be releasing as much of the engine as possible open-source | 20:44 |
| Getty | but then we all could need the same | 20:45 |
| Getty | tools for coodination of the game development | 20:45 |
| Getty | ticket system optimized for gaming requirements, special workflow definitons and stuff | 20:45 |
| * SDuensin uses Redmine | 20:45 | |
| @preaction | http://www.ffilmation.org/website/ <- this is what we're probably gonna base our engine on, just stripped out of some of the less resource-intense options (point light, shading, etc...) | 20:45 |
| Getty | we use trac :) | 20:45 |
| @preaction | i'll be installing Trac myself. <3 Trac | 20:46 |
| Getty | cool | 20:46 |
| Getty | trac owns | 20:46 |
| Getty | but trac is... old | 20:46 |
| SDuensin | I switched from Trac to Redmine. They're both nice. | 20:46 |
| Getty | and got design flaws | 20:46 |
| @preaction | redmine is nice, but it's too much for just what I want: Ticket and release tracking | 20:46 |
| Getty | for example: translation.................. | 20:46 |
| Getty | trac never can make a decent translation concept, they "forgot" it | 20:46 |
| Getty | but redmine is dead out of concept: its PHP | 20:46 |
| SDuensin | Interesting engine. | 20:47 |
| SDuensin | Huh? Redmine is Ruby. | 20:47 |
| Getty | oh it is??? | 20:47 |
| Getty | nah, Ruby, PHP, where is the difference? | 20:47 |
| SDuensin | Yea. | 20:47 |
| Getty | in both you got 20 engines which doesnt work ;) | 20:47 |
| SDuensin | The difference is PHP crap is easier to install. :-) | 20:47 |
| SDuensin | Actually, Bitnomi has a ready-to-go Redmine stack. | 20:48 |
| Getty | reminds me on the CeBIT, where i had a professional publisher about opensource development and tried to convience him how cool perl is | 20:48 |
| Getty | other perl dudes told him then: "ask getty whatever language you want to use and he tells you why you have to switch to perl" | 20:48 |
| @preaction | yeah, redmine is Rails. bleh. | 20:48 |
| Getty | and then the professional said: "and what about ruby?" | 20:48 |
| SDuensin | Rails is bleh, but Redmine is NICE! | 20:48 |
| Getty | and i said: "gimme ONE engine then we could talk about it" | 20:49 |
| @preaction | Trac is Python, and the rest of our engine is Python (because of PyAMF and twisted and SQLAlchemy, Perl doesn't have an AMF bridge :( | 20:49 |
| Getty | AMF? | 20:49 |
| Getty | and if perl doesnt have it: code it! ;) | 20:49 |
| @preaction | Adobe Message Format -- a binary protocol for passing stuff to/from flash over sockets | 20:49 |
| Getty | ah ok | 20:50 |
| Getty | but that is a low reason, or? | 20:50 |
| @preaction | and I would, I really would, but we're already looking at a huge Time To Market, and I don't want to increase that | 20:50 |
| SDuensin | I thought AMF made bowling equipment. | 20:50 |
| Getty | lol | 20:50 |
| * SDuensin stopped working on his Flash-based engine just prior to putting in 3D. | 20:51 | |
| Getty | preaction: does your engine/core already has a cool name? ;) | 20:51 |
| SDuensin | http://bitnami.org/stack/redmine | 20:51 |
| Getty | i got one in my head which i wanted to use for a "ZakMcCracken MMORPG" game | 20:51 |
| @preaction | Getty: the engine is the ffilmation engine, linked above. anything we edit or change will go back into the engine. I don't think the guy has a github or a sf entry yet, so I might go ahead and make one | 20:52 |
| Getty | what you guys think of "ZakMcCracken" as MMORPG? :) | 20:53 |
| @preaction | i know i'll be adding the multiplayer part, and that's gonna be a biggie. i might be adding other huge parts like NPCs and Quests | 20:53 |
| SDuensin | I think Lucas will squash you. | 20:53 |
| Getty | preaction: take ape-project into concerns | 20:53 |
| @preaction | sounds like i'd BE Zak McCracken | 20:53 |
| Getty | SDuensin: its just about the style | 20:53 |
| @preaction | but if it's an MMORPG, we can't all be Zak | 20:53 |
| Getty | SDuensin: you know the "town scenes" in ZakMcCracken? | 20:53 |
| Getty | just think about a huge town | 20:53 |
| Getty | and everyone got a flat | 20:53 |
| Getty | and a character | 20:53 |
| Getty | "thats it" | 20:53 |
| Getty | but all looks like zakmccracken style | 20:53 |
| SDuensin | Wow. My Redmine is OLD. | 20:54 |
| * SDuensin really needs to get off his butt and fix that. | 20:54 | |
| SDuensin | Sounds like the old (and dead) Sierra Network. | 20:54 |
| @preaction | yeah, looks a lot like the old sierra games | 20:54 |
| Getty | there was one??? | 20:54 |
| @preaction | might want to play on that | 20:54 |
| Getty | unbelievable | 20:54 |
| Getty | they stole my idea! | 20:54 |
| Getty | btw: i wanted to call it "Maniac City Project" ;) | 20:54 |
| Getty | (shortage: MCP..... i hope there are tron fans here? ;) ) | 20:55 |
| @preaction | heh | 20:55 |
| Getty | i mean its all about putting flashs on a flash with specific X/Y | 20:55 |
| Getty | so the people could make own "equipment" very easy | 20:55 |
| Getty | NCP's for the business areas and stuff | 20:55 |
| Getty | it would be so the most awesome shitfuck ever 8-) | 20:55 |
| SDuensin | Sounds like SecondLife, but flat. | 20:56 |
| Getty | yeah but i had the idea before actually 10 years old | 20:56 |
| Getty | but i didnt had time and to less flash coders | 20:56 |
| Getty | flash coders are "gold" in some matter, so it was hard to get them to work "free" | 20:57 |
| Getty | its still nearly impossible | 20:57 |
| Getty | but dudes.... | 20:57 |
| SDuensin | Maybe I should finish my engine. | 20:57 |
| Getty | you both could really get advantage of your own projects with PlayerID.net :) | 20:57 |
| Getty | and i think you should support it | 20:57 |
| @preaction | yeah, Good flash programmers are definitely worth it, even though if you know JavaScript, AS3 is cake | 20:57 |
| Getty | You know OpenID? | 20:57 |
| @preaction | openID is awesome, yeah | 20:57 |
| Getty | SDuensin: is it good | 20:58 |
| Getty | SDuensin: is it good? | 20:58 |
| Getty | preaction: but... | 20:58 |
| Getty | preaction: you cant integrate it into a game easily | 20:58 |
| Getty | preaction: PlayerID.net wants to offer the somehow same concept like OpenID but offer is also not over HTTP | 20:58 |
| SDuensin | Oddly, my Flash engine is scripted in Lua. :-) | 20:58 |
| Getty | preaction: so that a you can just put it into the game | 20:58 |
| Getty | preaction: and the player got one ID for all games | 20:58 |
| Getty | he can have own forum, blog, youtube videos whatever he wants on his profile page, also adding all games he plays | 20:59 |
| Getty | and if the game binds to the statistics of PlayerID.net also see his stats all the time | 20:59 |
| Getty | that is the target | 20:59 |
| @preaction | that does sound interesting, but it doens't sound like something that will take off (ivory towers, and all that) | 20:59 |
| Getty | lets say..... | 20:59 |
| Getty | there are many many opensource games | 20:59 |
| @preaction | i have in my head I want to make a Flash version of SubSpace (later Continuum), and PlayerID.net would probably be perfect for that | 20:59 |
| Getty | which have a central registration or none registration at all | 20:59 |
| Getty | playerid.net offers a decentral-centralized concept | 21:00 |
| SDuensin | For open source it might work. Commercial games have Steam and SteamCloud. | 21:00 |
| Getty | so you got public and private keys, much signing and stuff | 21:00 |
| Getty | SDuensin: we are better then steam | 21:00 |
| Getty | SDuensin: cause we are independent of the "steam server" | 21:00 |
| Getty | SDuensin: playerid.net can be down and you still can play all games identified | 21:00 |
| Getty | also... | 21:01 |
| SDuensin | I can play all my Steam stuff offline. | 21:01 |
| Getty | Sduensin: but just cause they put it in, you cant play online with your steam_Id if steam is down | 21:01 |
| Getty | Sduensin: if you got a clan server, and steam is down, then you cant get the STEAM_ID | 21:01 |
| Getty | SDuensin: PlayerID.net solves this | 21:01 |
| SDuensin | Can't say I've ever tried. | 21:01 |
| Getty | so that the game is independent of its own masterserver | 21:01 |
| SDuensin | That's cool. | 21:01 |
| Getty | yeah, when i heard about the concept of divVerent a developer of Nexuiz i was shocked that it can be so easy | 21:02 |
| SDuensin | Hey! Go vote! http://bitnami.org/product/webgui | 21:02 |
| Getty | and of course | 21:02 |
| Getty | PlayerID.net will be build 100% opensource | 21:02 |
| SDuensin | Hard to believe Nexuiz grew out of the ancient Quake 1 codebase. | 21:03 |
| Getty | and also free for everybody | 21:03 |
| Getty | SDuensin: LordHavoc is a genius | 21:03 |
| Getty | SDuensin: but nexuiz will die now | 21:03 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 21:03 |
| Getty | SDuensin: Vermeuten the "owner" sold it | 21:03 |
| SDuensin | ? | 21:03 |
| Getty | yeah | 21:03 |
| Getty | he made a contract with illfonic who makes now the xbox/ps3 version of it | 21:03 |
| SDuensin | That's what forking is for. | 21:03 |
| Getty | but they have a special contract | 21:04 |
| Getty | no | 21:04 |
| Getty | its more | 21:04 |
| Getty | really SOLD | 21:04 |
| Getty | they can use the same name | 21:04 |
| Getty | so there will be 2 nexuiz | 21:04 |
| Getty | (nexuiz.com is the commercial one) | 21:04 |
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| Getty | think about the impact on the community | 21:04 |
| Getty | if the free contributions are SOLD under the same name | 21:04 |
| Getty | it took around 24h will the first people (important ones) started the fork project | 21:04 |
| Getty | so soon there will be a new nexuiz | 21:04 |
| SDuensin | Xbox and PS3? | 21:04 |
| Getty | i think so.... check on the page | 21:05 |
| Getty | they tell exactly | 21:05 |
| Getty | and they dont need to recontribute anything | 21:05 |
| Getty | so all people who distributed to nexuiz are seeing their content "stolen" | 21:05 |
| Getty | cause Illfonic doesnt need to bring it back | 21:05 |
| Getty | which would be regulary forbidden with the GPL | 21:05 |
| Getty | (thats why i said SOLD, cause fork can only be same license) | 21:05 |
| Getty | (thats why i said SOLD, cause fork can only be same license in case of GPL) | 21:06 |
| Getty | its the biggest disaster i could imagine for the open source game development at all | 21:06 |
| Getty | thats why conflict industries will make decent "contracts" | 21:07 |
| Getty | we will write down what is the target, independent of a single person | 21:07 |
| Getty | we already got a zen!!! :D | 21:07 |
| Getty | http://hq.conflictindustries.org/wiki/ConflictIndustriesZen | 21:07 |
| Getty | i think that is the most important point of conflict industries | 21:08 |
| Getty | be independent and protect the work of the coders | 21:08 |
| Getty | i dont want that everybody likes everybody in the team | 21:08 |
| Getty | we do "work" so there is aggression and fight, it just needs to fit into rules | 21:09 |
| Getty | if i talk with my dudes about progress and features i always remind them on the zen | 21:09 |
| Getty | sounds cool? :) | 21:15 |
| SDuensin | I just smack people. That's zen. | 21:16 |
| Getty | lol | 21:16 |
| @Haarg | seems odd that they would be able to get a proprietary license for nexuiz unless all the contributors gave away their copyrights | 21:17 |
| Getty | Haarg: it depends on what you define "contributors" the artist was asked special one by one | 21:17 |
| * SDuensin agrees with Haarg | 21:17 | |
| Getty | Haarg: but the code and parts of it, are licensed under the owner, cause you cant split them up really (and it depends how the owner handles it) | 21:17 |
| @Haarg | well, it seems like there were code contributors | 21:17 |
| Getty | like if you got "Copyright by Vermeuten" in every code part | 21:18 |
| Getty | and they are not allowed to add their own name there | 21:18 |
| Getty | then its still his | 21:18 |
| Getty | its the "contract" based on the workflow | 21:18 |
| Getty | like: "you accepted this with committing to it" | 21:18 |
| Getty | on graphics its more easy to split, its file by file | 21:18 |
| Getty | so there its easy to handle specific copyrights | 21:18 |
| Getty | but even there the "project leader" could make it copyright of the project or whatever, if the committer accepts | 21:19 |
| Getty | so technical: he dont need to ask everybody if he stricts it before with the remarks in code | 21:19 |
| @Haarg | well, i can't really see it as being stolen if the contributors gave away the copyright for their code | 21:20 |
| Getty | oh its more a personal thing now | 21:20 |
| Getty | "legally" vermeuten is totally right | 21:20 |
| Getty | but... | 21:20 |
| Getty | why he allowed them to use the original name and even gave them the nexuiz.com? | 21:21 |
| Getty | people contributed to the accept condition cause they thought its for a bigger opensource scale | 21:21 |
| Getty | but if now it gets "sold", then its a double sided sword | 21:21 |
| Getty | actually 90% of the guys who are pissed now said that it would be fine if the new game has another name | 21:22 |
| Getty | but that really means "selling community" | 21:22 |
| Getty | cause every nexuiz page now also promote the commercial game | 21:22 |
| Getty | "automatically" | 21:22 |
| Getty | and this is not vermeuten's work, its a big community out of thousands of people who have pages, info stuff and so on | 21:22 |
| Getty | they do it cause its for opensource (mostly) | 21:22 |
| Getty | and now the "name" and all the work is "sold" | 21:23 |
| kimd | preaction, why are you torturing me with git? | 21:31 |
| @preaction | i'm trying not to torture you, just let me know which files I need to test out | 21:31 |
| kimd | No, it's all right. I will try to create that fork. | 21:32 |
| kimd | I am still young. I can learn... | 21:32 |
| @preaction | just saying there's another way to let me know those files, but it's a little more involved | 21:32 |
| Getty | github is easy | 21:32 |
| kimd | I find that svn was much easier. | 21:32 |
| kimd | Now I spend a lot of time on understanding git. | 21:32 |
| @preaction | well, once you wrap your head around the idea (esp. if you think in SVN already) | 21:32 |
| Getty | beside that you have 2 commits ;) | 21:33 |
| kimd | Yeah, that is the problem. Too many features, too many options. | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | kimd: try this -> http://git.or.cz/course/svn.html | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | on a daily basis, I only use 5-8 different git commands | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | it's very easy to learn | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | blindingly fast | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | you will love it | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | it's better than maultaschen mit kase overbacken | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | or is that uberbacken | 21:34 |
| @preaction | the help.github.com site i find to be really usable (even if it does a lot for you) | 21:35 |
| kimd | I am vegetarian. So, I hope it is really better than that. | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | It's better than zweibelkuchen | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | ohne speck | 21:35 |
| kimd | perlDreamer, it is "überbacken". "overbacken" could be Dutch. | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what I get for talking to Dutch people... | 21:35 |
| kimd | Yummy, Zwiebelkucken is lecker!!! | 21:36 |
| kimd | But makes you lonely for a while... | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Now I can't even keep my Dutch, German, French, Hungarian and Vietnamese straight | 21:36 |
| * kimd is trying to create a fork on github for the next two hours... | 21:36 | |
| kimd | Hey, I am forking already. Cool! | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | see? Very fast. | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | we tried to make maultaschen with only spinach once | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | it didn't turn out well | 21:39 |
| Getty | i mean there is a big fat button for that ;) | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | very soggy | 21:39 |
| Getty | hehe# | 21:39 |
| Getty | thats why github owned... "1-click forking" | 21:39 |
| Getty | what i like most is the general thinking that you have to make: | 21:39 |
| Getty | instead of committing directly to teh target, you first committ to yourself and "Offer" the diff | 21:40 |
| Getty | that makes it much easier to contribute | 21:40 |
| Getty | and for developers to accept contributions | 21:40 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra3f58bd / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm : Remove override of addChild in Post, since the same check is done via www_add/canAdd/validParent. - http://bit.ly/daNTD2 | 21:41 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbc466ab / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm : Add a validParent check to Post. - http://bit.ly/axwMVc | 21:41 |
| kimd | Hm. Now I have forked the project and am able to clone the repo. | 21:41 |
| kimd | But what is that line for "git remote add upstream git://github.com/pjhyett/github-services.git"? | 21:41 |
| * kimd is referring to the online help. | 21:42 | |
| kimd | perlDreamer, forget about Maultauschen. There is much better stuff. | 21:42 |
| kimd | Btw, did you know they were invented by monks? | 21:42 |
| @preaction | kimd: that adds another "remote" for the "upstream" (which, in this case, is the WebGUI you forked from) | 21:43 |
| @preaction | upstream is up the fork tree, downstream is down the fork tree | 21:44 |
| @Haarg | it's to link in the core webgui repo so that you can pull changes from it when it is updated | 21:44 |
| @preaction | (or push changes to it if you have commit access) | 21:44 |
| @Haarg | yeah | 21:44 |
| kimd | I see. That makes sense. But first I need to solve an authentication issue. | 21:45 |
| @preaction | you don't have commit access to that repo | 21:45 |
| kimd | It seems, I have to got through the course that perlDreamer posted. | 21:45 |
| @preaction | oh, yes, you need an SSH key pair | 21:45 |
| kimd | I am still at the process of cloning the fork | 21:45 |
| @preaction | yeah, you need an SSH key pair to get the authed version of your clone | 21:46 |
| @preaction | er... fork | 21:46 |
| kimd | Hm. I knew it would be complicated. | 21:47 |
| @preaction | it's not that bad :p. you probably already have an ssh key and don't even know it | 21:48 |
| @preaction | oh, wait, are you on windows? then it might be more interesting | 21:48 |
| kimd | No, beware! I just never remember the place where public keys are stored. | 21:50 |
| kimd | But wait, do not say anything. | 21:50 |
| @preaction | ok | 21:51 |
| kimd | I want to solve this on my own. Otherwise I will feel bad. | 21:51 |
| @preaction | i know that feeling (if i don't learn something on my own, i don't remember it, so i have to end up looking it up over and over) | 21:51 |
| @Haarg | preaction, did you get a chance to look at the upgrade thing i started working on? | 21:52 |
| @preaction | Haarg: not yet, no. still working through March 16's email (and that's just the unfiltered inbox, not the support@, TGC, etc@ rfe@ bugs@ dev@ and client e-mail) | 21:53 |
| @Haarg | ok, no problem | 21:53 |
| @preaction | ... i think the e-mail i have to read just went up, not down... :( | 21:53 |
| @preaction | yep. i've read 30, i just got 35 added :p | 21:54 |
| @preaction | is the "Copy With Descendants" only available when viewing the asset? or is it also somewhere in the Asset Manager? | 21:56 |
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| kimd | preaction, I give up. | 22:03 |
| @preaction | no worries | 22:03 |
| @preaction | or give up what? | 22:03 |
| kimd | I uploaded one of my public keys. It still does not work. | 22:03 |
| @Haarg | what doesn't work? | 22:03 |
| kimd | Authentication. SSH says: | 22:04 |
| kimd | debug1: Next authentication method: publickey | 22:04 |
| kimd | debug1: Offering public key: /home/spunky/.ssh/id_dsa | 22:04 |
| kimd | debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey | 22:04 |
| kimd | debug1: Offering public key: /home/spunky/.ssh/id_rsa | 22:04 |
| kimd | debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey | 22:04 |
| kimd | debug1: Trying private key: /home/spunky/.ssh/identity | 22:04 |
| kimd | debug1: No more authentication methods to try. | 22:04 |
| kimd | But my public key was accepted by github. | 22:04 |
| @preaction | you uploaded /home/spunky/.ssh/id_rsa.pub correct? | 22:04 |
| @Haarg | what command are you running that you are getting that? | 22:04 |
| kimd | I uploaded id_rsa.pub | 22:04 |
| kimd | ssh -v spunky@github.com | 22:05 |
| @preaction | oh, you can't login that way | 22:05 |
| @tavisto | preaction, do you know if we can easily dupe an existing game in TGC? | 22:05 |
| @preaction | it's github@github.com | 22:05 |
| kimd | This is recommended by the online help to check for successful authentication. | 22:05 |
| @preaction | tavisto: i'm working on that right now | 22:05 |
| @tavisto | ok, well let me know if it's something that me or Vrby are capable of doing. We don't want to publicize that we can do it.. But for people that spend a bunch of $ with us, I'm happy to. :) | 22:06 |
| kimd | preaction, it's git@github.com. But in principle you are right. | 22:06 |
| kimd | That solves the problem. | 22:06 |
| kimd | I thought the git is just a placeholder that needs to be replaced. | 22:06 |
| kimd | Too much thinking. | 22:06 |
| @preaction | tavisto: it isn't. and i don't think i can even add a quick "Copy" button (decks, boards, games were never designed to be copied, so we probably don't copy all the storage locations and other jazz that can mess things up) | 22:07 |
| @tavisto | ugh | 22:07 |
| @preaction | yet another reason we need collateral AND storage as a role (or a better way of forming relationships in assets) | 22:07 |
| @tavisto | there goes my "this should be easy" expectation | 22:07 |
| @preaction | it's straightforward, it is. it's just a lot of things to check | 22:07 |
| @Haarg | kimd, you'll probably have to change the remote url on your clone before you can push changes | 22:10 |
| kimd | And to what? | 22:11 |
| @Haarg | well, it sounds like you used the read only url to make the clone. now that you have the ssh key set up you would want to change it to the read+write url. | 22:12 |
| kimd | Haarg, that is a misunderstanding. I was stuck at cloning the forked repo. | 22:14 |
| @Haarg | ah | 22:14 |
| kimd | But it seems to be working now. | 22:14 |
| kimd | Thanks anyway. | 22:14 |
| kimd | preaction, I have created and cloned the fork. I assume, the next step is applying my patch and pushing to the fork? | 22:16 |
| @preaction | correct | 22:16 |
| kimd | I mean the remote repo. | 22:16 |
| kimd | Good. I will try that. Is it allowed to curse on this channel? | 22:16 |
| @preaction | your wgpkg should go in the docs/upgrades/7.9.1-packages folder (and if it doesn't exist, you should create it) | 22:17 |
| @preaction | sure, go ahead | 22:17 |
| kimd | Is it a problem if I get trailing whitespace error? | 22:20 |
| @preaction | no | 22:21 |
| +perlDreamer | kimd, what is better than maultaschen? | 22:23 |
| kimd | Hm. Does it have to be related? | 22:24 |
| +perlDreamer | no, not necessarily? | 22:25 |
| kimd | I mean, something pasta-like with filling? | 22:25 |
| +perlDreamer | sure | 22:25 |
| kimd | Something German? | 22:25 |
| +perlDreamer | that would be best | 22:25 |
| +perlDreamer | since my wife loves German food and culture | 22:25 |
| +perlDreamer | which is the primary reason I drive 25 miles to get her maultaschen | 22:25 |
| kimd | What about Kohlrouladen? | 22:26 |
| +perlDreamer | from here: http://www.edelweissdeli.com/ | 22:26 |
| kimd | Very heavy though. | 22:26 |
| +perlDreamer | Kohlrouladen, is that like rinderouladen with cabbage? | 22:26 |
| kimd | Exactly. The vegetarian style... | 22:26 |
| kimd | I can translate the recipe for you. | 22:27 |
| kimd | Check out chefkoch.de | 22:27 |
| kimd | There you find lots of stuff. | 22:27 |
| Getty | i cant eat vegetarian ;) | 22:30 |
| @preaction | http://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/461721139252650/Schupfnudeln-mit-Kraut-und-Speck.html <- this looks good | 22:32 |
| +perlDreamer | that is very good | 22:33 |
| +perlDreamer | Kathy makes it | 22:33 |
| +perlDreamer | with homemade Shupfnedeln | 22:33 |
| +perlDreamer | if you asked her nicely, and got her a kitchen, she'd probably make it at the WUC | 22:34 |
| @preaction | okay, then what's gekörnte soup? | 22:34 |
| @preaction | imma try it myself, always wanted to try more German / Eastern Eurpean cooking (mostly stick to Italian and Mexican) | 22:34 |
| +perlDreamer | broth from granules, like boullion? | 22:34 |
| kimd | What's the URL to gekörnte soup? | 22:35 |
| @preaction | ahh, beef boullion, that makes sense | 22:35 |
| @preaction | or chicken boullion | 22:36 |
| +perlDreamer | kimd is sparking a revolution. First we'll be cooking German food, next we'll be climbing rocks | 22:36 |
| @preaction | <3 google translate | 22:37 |
| @preaction | looks like one of the people added grated Gouda as well, mmm | 22:37 |
| +perlDreamer | mmm, spaetzle with grated gouda and carmelized onions | 22:37 |
| kimd | What about a pre-conference cookathon? | 22:37 |
| @preaction | what is a "Tin of Sauerkraut". a can? 12oz? | 22:37 |
| kimd | It's not defined. Just a tin. | 22:37 |
| kimd | It's a lousy quantity specification. | 22:38 |
| +perlDreamer | also, be sure to get real German sauerkraut. American is too sour. | 22:38 |
| @preaction | yeah. you get used to it on internet sites ;) | 22:38 |
| @preaction | so the stuff in the green can? | 22:38 |
| kimd | May I interrupt for some serious matter? I am stuck at pushing to my remote repo. | 22:38 |
| @preaction | sure | 22:38 |
| kimd | How do I do it? git push does not work. | 22:39 |
| kimd | Or is that question too general? | 22:39 |
| @preaction | define "doesn't work", what does happen? | 22:39 |
| kimd | I get a lot of warnings and then a final error message that says: | 22:40 |
| kimd | Permission denied (publickey). | 22:40 |
| kimd | fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly | 22:40 |
| kimd | Do I need to specify the remote? | 22:40 |
| @Haarg | what do you get if you run git remote -v ? | 22:40 |
| +perlDreamer | kimd: http://help.github.com/troubleshooting-ssh/ | 22:41 |
| kimd | That can't be the reason. I have set up ssh before. | 22:41 |
| kimd | It was working when I cloned the repo. | 22:41 |
| kimd | The warning says: warning: You did not specify any refspecs to push, and the current remote | 22:41 |
| kimd | warning: has not configured any push refspecs... | 22:41 |
| @Haarg | what version of git are you using? (git --version) | 22:42 |
| @preaction | yes, you need to say "git push origin master" or you can configure the default "refspec" to push to in your <repo>/.git/config | 22:42 |
| kimd | git version 1.6.3.3 | 22:43 |
| +perlDreamer | done_testing is awesome! | 22:43 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: indeed. much nicer than planning | 22:44 |
| kimd | Ah, I am stupid. I was trying to push as root, but configured authentication only for my local user. | 22:44 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we'll move over to done_testing in wg8, totally | 22:44 |
| @preaction | ah, yep, i still do that once in a while, kimd | 22:44 |
| * kimd is banging his head on the table. | 22:45 | |
| kimd | What is done_testing? | 22:45 |
| kimd | Juhu! I am done. | 22:45 |
| kimd | How do I inform you about my changes, preaction? | 22:45 |
| kimd | Is there a slick git command for doing that? | 22:45 |
| @preaction | github.com has a "Pull Request", or you can just tell me the commit ID and i'll check your github (what's your github username?) | 22:46 |
| kimd | commit ID? Uh, it never ends. | 22:47 |
| kimd | My username is spunky. | 22:47 |
| +perlDreamer | just how many names do you have, kimd? | 22:48 |
| @preaction | kimd: usually you just need the first 6-8 characters of the commit ID | 22:49 |
| kimd | I have many lives... | 22:49 |
| kimd | I just send out a pull request. | 22:49 |
| kimd | perlDreamer, I have been using spunky as my default username for more than a decade now. I just got used to it. | 22:50 |
| kimd | I use kimd only on webgui.org. | 22:51 |
| kimd | preaction, received the pull request? | 22:51 |
| @preaction | not yet, but i've got 7 days worth of e-mail to work my way through, so even if i don't I will check your github account and take a look-see (if not today, then tomorrow or the weekend) | 22:52 |
| @Haarg | kimd, http://www.webgui.org/develop/wiki/git has a section with some recommended config settings to use to make working with git a little easier | 22:52 |
| kimd | Ok. No problem. That means I am done for today and let you do the rest :-) | 22:52 |
| kimd | Thanks, Haarg. I am going to have a look at it. | 22:53 |
| +perlDreamer | kimd, done_testing is a subroutine used to indicate that a test is done running | 22:58 |
| +perlDreamer | it's kind of a marker in the output stream | 22:58 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise, you have to use no_plan, which will not tell you if the test died early | 22:58 |
| +perlDreamer | or you have to manually count all the tests and keep track of them | 22:58 |
| +perlDreamer | done_testing is awesome | 22:58 |
| kimd | I see. Is it part of perl or the webgui core? | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | It's part of Test::More | 23:00 |
| @preaction | it's part of TAP 3.0 | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | Does anyone know how to fool perl into thinking that a module is already loaded? | 23:01 |
| @preaction | add ... uh... why? | 23:01 |
| @preaction | add an entry to %INC | 23:01 |
| +perlDreamer | I want to test the beautiful comments aspect, which requires having a package that uses it | 23:02 |
| @preaction | ahh | 23:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I could put another dummy module into t/lib/WebGUI, but would rather just declare a package in the test | 23:02 |
| @preaction | then yeah, that. just like deleting from %INC causes Perl to reload a module | 23:02 |
| @preaction | oh, if you're adding another "package" statement, you do not have to "use" the package | 23:03 |
| @preaction | it just exists | 23:03 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but WebGUI::Asset will still call loadModule, which requires the module | 23:03 |
| @preaction | you may have to Package->import; if you want to import any symbols to your main:: package | 23:03 |
| @preaction | oh.. yeah | 23:03 |
| +perlDreamer | so I need to fool it into thinking that it's already loaded | 23:04 |
| * perlDreamer uses his Jedi mind powers on Perl | 23:04 | |
| +perlDreamer | "You do not need to load this module..." | 23:04 |
| +perlDreamer | "These are not the developers that you are looking for..." | 23:04 |
| kimd | Does it work? | 23:04 |
| @Haarg | Test::MockObject->fake_module('WebGUI::Asset::Test::MyAsset'); or $INC{'WebGUI/Asset/Test/MyAsset.pm'} = __FILE__ | 23:05 |
| +perlDreamer | ++Haarg | 23:07 |
| @preaction | tavisto: a head's up, i'm almost done with the duplication feature | 23:10 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: Copy with Descendants only exists in the asset toolbar, not the asset manager | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be quite easy to add if you so command | 23:11 |
| @preaction | yeah, and we don't show the asset toolbar, but worse, the descendants don't duplicate their own storage locations (either as properties or deep inside JSON collateral) | 23:12 |
| +perlDreamer | uh oh | 23:12 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, I figure there's at least 1-2 manweeks of coding that site needs | 23:12 |
| @preaction | yes. but SOP is "wait until we also do the WebGUI 8 translation". then JT will be available to do it (from what I understand) | 23:14 |
| @preaction | i mean, with how wrapped up tight we are with 7, it will be pretty much ground-up rewrite | 23:14 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, whole lot of code bustin' going on | 23:15 |
| @preaction | which is exactly what it needs, PROVIDED JT follows the plan I laid out (back before TGC was hatched) | 23:15 |
| @tavisto | awesome preaction | 23:15 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, preaction, I need to create a separate file for WebGUI types. Is anyone opposed to WebGUI::Types? | 23:15 |
| @preaction | i gotta update the plan with the new print server spec/design, but otherwise it's still awesome | 23:15 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: no objection whatsoever | 23:15 |
| +perlDreamer | you can't put the print server on the Mac? | 23:15 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, can types be put into Roles? | 23:17 |
| @preaction | i can put the print server on the mac, the whole thing has to communicate with the website over http, so it can be anywhere | 23:18 |
| Getty | perlDreamer: you dont put types into Roles | 23:22 |
| Getty | perlDreamer: you put types in your Project Framework | 23:22 |
| Getty | (if we talk about the same Types ;) ) | 23:22 |
| Getty | and actually, just using them is enough anyway if you want to make it clean | 23:23 |
| kimd | I noticed it's time to go to bed again. | 23:28 |
| kimd | But only after a glass of red wine... | 23:28 |
| kimd | Enjoy your day, guys! | 23:29 |
| +perlDreamer | later, kimd | 23:29 |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra92a500 / lib/WebGUI/Types.pm : Add a file to hold WebGUI types for Moose. Note, reads from the db come back as undef, so it has to be explicitly coerced. - http://bit.ly/cDYlC2 | 23:45 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb41338c / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Pull types into its own file. - | 23:46 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd3f139d / t/Definition.t : Test WebGUI::Types | 23:46 |
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| --- Day changed Fri Mar 19 2010 | ||
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1363a86 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Serialize _to_ json in write. - http://bit.ly/d1e6j4 | 00:05 |
| CIA-58 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra8496c4 / (lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Comments.pm t/Role/Asset/Comments.t): Convert Comments role to use Types. Build a test for it. - http://bit.ly/9DO01s | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | Okay, we can now serialize to and from JSON in the db | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | we have types that support it | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | and we have tests to make sure it works | 00:07 |
| @preaction | yay! | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | is it okay to start logging bugs for WebGUI8 to the bug board? | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | I keep forgetting stuff and finding it later | 00:09 |
| @preaction | not yet, have you tried using a notepad application? i forget what it's called (it's gnome-based) | 00:13 |
| +perlDreamer | Tomboy | 00:15 |
| @preaction | yes, that one | 00:16 |
| @Haarg | i need to look into it a bit more but apparently my file-locations branch doesn't work with Config::JSON 1.5 for some reason | 00:17 |
| @Haarg | annoying | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | Isn't that the Moose one? | 00:18 |
| +perlDreamer | v1.5? | 00:18 |
| @Haarg | yes | 00:24 |
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| Getty | that is so cool | 00:40 |
| Getty | i just watch "alfred hitchcock presents" | 00:43 |
| Getty | man is that good | 00:43 |
| Getty | he is really a genius, even if he only gots 24 minutes | 00:43 |
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| @Haarg | do you think the upgrades should use one version tag per version upgrade or one per upgrade script? | 01:26 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 01:29 |
| +perlDreamer | if it was per script, it would be easier to undo small parts | 01:30 |
| @Haarg | i also have added a rm_lib sub to delete a perl module | 01:30 |
| +perlDreamer | but the upgrade process, will it let you run just 1 piece? | 01:30 |
| @Haarg | not really meant to | 01:30 |
| @Haarg | could be done by calling the methods yourself in a script | 01:31 |
| +perlDreamer | in that case, I still like granularity | 01:33 |
| @preaction | i like the granularity because it takes less time to code | 01:44 |
| @preaction | aka 0 | 01:44 |
| @Haarg | it's not particularly less time to code either way | 01:44 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: that's too granular. Have to have at least 1 version tag | 01:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, could we call __PACKAGE__->meta()->make_immutable(); in Asset.pm after the "definition" block? | 01:55 |
| @Haarg | yes | 01:55 |
| @Haarg | although it's probably better to have it at the end of the file | 01:56 |
| +perlDreamer | Moose does not support class methods | 02:00 |
| +perlDreamer | mmm, class attributes, to be specific | 02:00 |
| @Haarg | no, although there is a MooseX package for that | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I think it's overkill for what I want | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd like to make the set of classes that are valid parents for a particular asset to be class data | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | It's kind of like assetUi level. I had to make it an attribute to make it inheritable | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=690571 | 02:05 |
| @Haarg | so i have the upgrades using one version tag per upgrade file, named as "Upgrade to $version - $filename" where filename is the base filename without the extension | 02:15 |
| @Haarg | alternatively, perl upgrade scripts can request a named version tag | 02:16 |
| +perlDreamer | that would be better | 02:16 |
| @Haarg | which will be named "Upgrade to $version - $requested_name" | 02:16 |
| +perlDreamer | because I can see people having scripts and packages with the same name | 02:16 |
| +perlDreamer | oh | 02:16 |
| +perlDreamer | can it be "Upgrade to $version - $filename $enum" where $enum is "script, package, etc"? | 02:17 |
| +perlDreamer | that takes care of the naming conflict | 02:17 |
| @Haarg | yeah, i could do that or even leave the extension on | 02:17 |
| @Haarg | it also only creates/uses version tags when needed | 02:18 |
| +perlDreamer | that's handy | 02:18 |
| +perlDreamer | you think we're going to create a mess of version tags that users won't be able to follow? | 02:18 |
| +perlDreamer | I mean, the granularity is great for us, but for the common user | 02:18 |
| +perlDreamer | ? | 02:18 |
| @Haarg | probably not useful for common users | 02:18 |
| @Haarg | but then version tags are easy to ignore | 02:19 |
| +perlDreamer | true | 02:19 |
| @Haarg | and usually there are already tons of them created | 02:19 |
| +perlDreamer | the manage committed version tags interface could use an overhaul | 02:20 |
| +perlDreamer | search and sorting and useful pagination would help | 02:20 |
| @Haarg | also, for the upgrade scripts, do you think it is better to force them to always 'use' the classes they want, or would having them automatically loaded be a good thing? | 02:23 |
| Getty | Acme::Magic::Pony ftw! :D | 02:24 |
| Getty | Haarg: problem with automatic loading is the bigger collision problem, even tho could be a switch | 02:25 |
| @Haarg | bigger collision problem? | 02:25 |
| Getty | depending on the "stack" of extra addons you have installed, it could be that 2 concepts automatically loaded makes a problem | 02:25 |
| Getty | (sure, shouldnt happen, but the risk is higher if its autoloaded) | 02:26 |
| @Haarg | still don't quite get what you mean i guess | 02:27 |
| Getty | if 2 modules introduce the same function, then the autoload would make massiv mess probably ;) | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, I don't see how it would know that I want to use WebGUI::Asset, WebGUI::SQL, and WebGUI::Utility automatically | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | so I say make them "use" what they want | 02:27 |
| @Haarg | Getty, i was only thinking of this for methods, not imported functions | 02:28 |
| @Haarg | WebGUI::Utility wouldn't be able to be handled because it uses subs, not methods | 02:28 |
| @Haarg | but for the others it could detect when you made a method call | 02:29 |
| @Haarg | so that's a no to auto-loading? | 02:39 |
| @Haarg | i updated my branch on github, should handle packages and sql scripts now and handle version tags properly. | 02:40 |
| @Haarg | completely untested though | 02:41 |
| * perlDreamer signs off for tonight. time to meet with the tax lady | 02:51 | |
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| CIA-58 | webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * re5159e8 / (11 files in 6 dirs): Added URLMap support (e.g. virtual hosts and mounting) - http://bit.ly/cdvEiK | 03:39 |
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| --- Log opened Wed Mar 24 06:47:55 2010 | ||
| +perlDreamer | hopefully not out of relief | 06:47 |
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| -!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.8.15-stable | 7.9.1-beta | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com | 10:03 | |
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| CIA-104 | WebGUI: translation * r12455 /translations/German/German/Asset_Calendar.pm: Updating German on translation server | 11:28 |
| CIA-104 | WebGUI: translation * r12456 /translations/German/German/Asset_Collaboration.pm: Updating German on translation server | 11:28 |
| CIA-104 | WebGUI: translation * r12457 /translations/German/German/Asset_Post.pm: Updating German on translation server | 11:28 |
| CIA-104 | WebGUI: translation * r12458 /translations/German/German/Asset_Wobject.pm: Updating German on translation server | 11:28 |
| CIA-104 | WebGUI: translation * r12459 /translations/German/German/AuthLDAP.pm: Updating German on translation server | 11:28 |
| CIA-104 | WebGUI: translation * r12460 /translations/German/German/AuthWebGUI.pm: Updating German on translation server | 11:42 |
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| CIA-104 | WebGUI: translation * r12461 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset_Collaboration.pm Asset_Wobject.pm Asset_Post.pm): Updating Dutch on translation server | 11:58 |
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| CIA-104 | WebGUI: translation * r12462 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset_Calendar.pm AuthLDAP.pm Asset_Post.pm AuthWebGUI.pm): Updating Dutch on translation server | 15:27 |
| CIA-104 | WebGUI: translation * r12463 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Calendar.pm: Updating Dutch on translation server | 15:27 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 15:43 |
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| SDuensin | Gack. I remember how I did my WG auth integration last time... I replaced it! | 16:56 |
| +bartjol | very good | 16:59 |
| SDuensin | Not good. I don't want to have to maintain that. :-) | 17:00 |
| SDuensin | I just need to find the Java version of Digest::MD5::md5_base64. | 17:02 |
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| +bartjol | oh, sorry SDuensin, i thought it was good | 17:06 |
| +bartjol | perlDreamer: I have a bug breakfast for you | 17:07 |
| +perlDreamer | just 2 | 17:07 |
| +perlDreamer | not too bad | 17:07 |
| +bartjol | other issue | 17:07 |
| SDuensin | MMmm...bugs. | 17:07 |
| +bartjol | we noticed that in webgui, when mysql fails, you get the automated internal server error | 17:07 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 17:08 |
| +bartjol | while the problem can be more pinpointed | 17:08 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 17:08 |
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| +bartjol | ah | 17:08 |
| +perlDreamer | there is already a bug registered for this | 17:08 |
| +perlDreamer | can't be fixed until WebGUI 8 | 17:08 |
| +bartjol | does that depend on the wer httpd build? | 17:08 |
| +perlDreamer | we really want to fix it, but it just isn't possible now without making API altering changes that would shake your world | 17:08 |
| +bartjol | s/wer/wre/ | 17:08 |
| +perlDreamer | no, it's in the WebGUI core itself | 17:09 |
| +bartjol | ah | 17:09 |
| +bartjol | well, that seems to solve my problem (for now) | 17:09 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a bummer, for sure | 17:09 |
| +perlDreamer | so be very careful with your SQL code in the meantime | 17:09 |
| +perlDreamer | tons of work going on to make WebGUI work with the iPhone, sounds like | 17:11 |
| +bartjol | but, is that even so if the connection cannot be made at all? | 17:11 |
| +bartjol | if some idiot turns mysql off? | 17:12 |
| +bartjol | (not me, btw) | 17:12 |
| SDuensin | iPhone? | 17:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | you could prolly catch that in the url handler that actually opens the session | 17:12 |
| +perlDreamer | of course not, you're not an idiot | 17:12 |
| +bartjol | thanks | 17:12 |
| SDuensin | Can you be sure it arbitrarily censors random things so it's an authentic iPhone experience? :-P | 17:12 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 17:13 |
| +perlDreamer | if it can't connect, the session throws a fatal | 17:13 |
| +perlDreamer | and this message should be displayed on the screen: Couldn't connect to WebGUI database, and can't continue without it. | 17:14 |
| +perlDreamer | is that not what happens? | 17:14 |
| +bartjol | iPhone, that are those things you | 17:14 |
| +bartjol | a throw in the toilet | 17:14 |
| +bartjol | b pour tea over | 17:14 |
| +bartjol | c otherwise break it with a combination with water | 17:14 |
| +bartjol | nope | 17:14 |
| +MrHairgrease | dunno, I never shut down my db | 17:14 |
| +bartjol | i did today | 17:14 |
| * MrHairgrease is not an idiot after all =) | 17:14 | |
| +perlDreamer | of course not, MrHairgrease is eurosexual | 17:15 |
| +bartjol | http://webgui.pastebin.com/2umPzH1L | 17:15 |
| +bartjol | I did it on purpose, to check the error message | 17:15 |
| +perlDreamer | I think that's a bug, please file it, if you haven't already | 17:17 |
| +bartjol | no, not yet | 17:17 |
| +perlDreamer | if you chase it down and offer a patch, I'll offer you 500 karma | 17:17 |
| +bartjol | ah | 17:17 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise, I'll work on it on Monday, which is when I normally do bugs | 17:17 |
| @tavisto | Just say no to Bugs | 17:23 |
| +bartjol | it is http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11494 | 17:23 |
| +bartjol | tavisto: you, but that doesn't make them go away | 17:23 |
| +bartjol | s/you/yes | 17:23 |
| +perlDreamer | tavisto can make bugs go away | 17:24 |
| +perlDreamer | he does it by threatening to eat my children's livers if I don't fix them right away | 17:24 |
| @tavisto | eeew gross... | 17:24 |
| @tavisto | not liver... I hate liver... | 17:25 |
| +bartjol | kidneys? | 17:25 |
| @tavisto | better yes. | 17:25 |
| +bartjol | braaaaaiiiins | 17:26 |
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| doc777 | Hello friends. Is there a way to put a site into "Maintenance" mode ? | 17:27 |
| doc777 | Only one, and leave the others unaffected. | 17:27 |
| +perlDreamer | doc777, yes, but you need to do some manual db work | 17:27 |
| +perlDreamer | you cool doing that? | 17:27 |
| +MrHairgrease | use the utility script in s sbin | 17:27 |
| doc777 | yep | 17:27 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a script for that now? | 17:27 |
| +perlDreamer | too cool! | 17:27 |
| +perlDreamer | perl maintenanceMode.pl --configFile myconfig | 17:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | maintenanceMode.pl | 17:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | oh | 17:28 |
| +bartjol | quite a while | 17:28 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah it has been for quite some time | 17:28 |
| doc777 | In the wre or WebGUI sbin? | 17:28 |
| +bartjol | WebGUI | 17:28 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI sbin | 17:28 |
| * MrHairgrease seems to be reapeating everyone | 17:28 | |
| doc777 | Aha! Thankies, I will look at that. | 17:28 |
| @tavisto | MrHairGrease, did Oqapi work with Mirazzi Tile on their new website? | 17:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | never heardof 'em | 17:30 |
| @tavisto | er Marazzi Tile (www.marazzi.it) | 17:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | so i guess not | 17:30 |
| @tavisto | hehe yeah I guess not then. I'm trying to figure out who built their new site.. | 17:30 |
| +MrHairgrease | most of our customers ar eDutch | 17:31 |
| @tavisto | It's a great new site although no one seems to know who developed the site (we're currently working with the US division -- so hopefully I can find this out) | 17:31 |
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| @tavisto | I was looking for an opportunity to yell OQAPPPPPPPPPPI | 17:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | just a suggestion, but you might try emailing these tile guys and just ask them who built their site | 17:32 |
| doc777 | That maintenance toggle is great. Looks really nice. Is there a way to edit the site while that is being displayed? Just curious. | 17:32 |
| +MrHairgrease | but indeed: OQAPPPPPPPPPPI!!! | 17:32 |
| @tavisto | um yeah, I'm waiting to hear back from them. Thanks. :) | 17:32 |
| +bartjol | doc777: I think that is a contenthandler | 17:33 |
| +bartjol | yes | 17:33 |
| +bartjol | so you should be able to edit that | 17:33 |
| +bartjol | it is in docs/maintenance.html | 17:33 |
| +bartjol | so edit that one | 17:34 |
| +perlDreamer | while the site is in maintenance mode, the only way to edit the site itself is via script | 17:34 |
| +perlDreamer | there's no UI interface anymore, until you take it out of maintenance mode | 17:34 |
| +perlDreamer | if you want to do site work that is "hidden" while the site is live, use version tags | 17:34 |
| +bartjol | ow sorry | 17:35 |
| +bartjol | I got it wrong | 17:35 |
| doc777 | Ok thanks :o) | 17:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | another thing you can do is let the mod_proxy httpd show a maintenance mode page | 17:35 |
| +MrHairgrease | then direct your browser to your mod_perl instance directly | 17:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | ie. port 8080 or whatever it is in the wre | 17:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought you were going to suggest only showing that by incoming IP | 17:36 |
| +bartjol | normally 8081 | 17:36 |
| doc777 | Ra! Now that is an idea. But how would you do that... as far as where is that page located. | 17:36 |
| +MrHairgrease | just edit /data/wre/etc/yoursite.modproxy | 17:37 |
| +bartjol | what page? the maintenance one? in WebGUI/docs | 17:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | comment out alle the rwrite stuff | 17:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | and make sure your documentroot is correct | 17:37 |
| +MrHairgrease | and you have a index.html page overthere | 17:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | then restart mordproxy | 17:38 |
| +bartjol | moordproxy? | 17:38 |
| +MrHairgrease | then you go to your site by going to yoursite.com:8081 | 17:38 |
| doc777 | Ah, I follow you now. Thanks, that would let us work on a new site while the world sees the other. | 17:39 |
| doc777 | Perfect. | 17:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 17:39 |
| +MrHairgrease | good luck | 17:39 |
| doc777 | Thank you so much. The people alone make webgui worth using :o) | 17:39 |
| @tavisto | doc777, may I ask how/where it is you're using WebGUI? | 17:40 |
| doc777 | Its a church / school network that has a few sites on their own server. | 17:41 |
| @tavisto | Awesome, well I'm not sure if you've seen the webgui.org/sightings page, but we're always looking for more sites to list. That's the best way for us to show the world what can be done with wG | 17:42 |
| @tavisto | Feel free to shoot us an email at info@plainblack.com with your URLs and we'll get your sites listed on there if you'd like. | 17:43 |
| doc777 | Ah, will try and look into that. We would like to support webgui as much as possible. We have ordered a few of the books so far :o) | 17:43 |
| @tavisto | awesome, that's what we like to hear. :) Well when you're ready we can get the sites on sightings and even do a success story with you. Just let us know | 17:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | speaking of which, what has happened to the succes story stuff Oqapi sent in? | 17:47 |
| @tavisto | I'll check, should have been posted forever ago | 17:57 |
| @tavisto | The city of Worcester, MA just released their wG site. http://www.ci.worcester.ma.us/ | 17:58 |
| +perlDreamer | nice site | 18:29 |
| +perlDreamer | has that been in the works for a while? | 18:30 |
| +bartjol | tavis build it in 1 night | 18:30 |
| @tavisto | yeah they worked on it for several months | 18:40 |
| @tavisto | gotta line up a success story with my PoC there | 18:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | poc?? | 18:40 |
| @tavisto | WebGUI gets evaluated quite frequently for city/county/township websites so it's good to have some additional examples | 18:40 |
| @tavisto | point of contact | 18:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | aha | 18:40 |
| @tavisto | Hey, the Oqapi story is on the site... however, you couldn't see it because it's hidden in the Affiliate section of the success story listings | 18:41 |
| @tavisto | we never made that public since we were waiting on the other resellers. That's why! | 18:41 |
| @tavisto | Nobody wants to work with OQAPPPPPPPPPPPPI anyway so no big deal. | 18:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | true enough | 18:42 |
| @tavisto | :) | 18:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | but nobody can break the habit of working with us either | 18:42 |
| +bartjol | especially that short bold guy | 18:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | bartjol, you are not working for oqapi, so I dunno what you are talking about | 18:43 |
| +bartjol | yes, but I do have to put up with him 5 days a week, not 3 | 18:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | you are aware that he has grown a significant amount of hair, right? | 18:45 |
| +bartjol | yeah | 18:45 |
| +bartjol | but he is still bold in my head | 18:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | so | 18:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | I dunno what you are talking about | 18:46 |
| +bartjol | as so often | 18:46 |
| -!- bartjol [~bartjol@kantoor.procolix.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 18:52 | |
| +MrHairgrease | tavisto: too bad, i have no affiliate access | 18:57 |
| @tavisto | well I think we've got enough affiliates now that I can make that section visible. I'm fixing it up right now | 18:58 |
| @tavisto | Need to get SDH and a few others on it though | 18:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 18:58 |
| +perlDreamer | tavisto, patspam is often on IRC, just give him a poke | 19:00 |
| @tavisto | MrHairgrease, you should see it now | 19:00 |
| @tavisto | we need to get your logo up there like Knowmad has | 19:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | whoop! | 19:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | indeed | 19:01 |
| @tavisto | I suppose I can grab the one off your website and add some canvas to the sides | 19:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | I can send you a logo | 19:01 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2a7f64c / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/HttpProxy : Removing bad file. - http://bit.ly/aCyVFk | 19:01 |
| @tavisto | that works too | 19:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | but I'll do so tomorrow or Friday depending how much tim eI spend at a customer tomoorrow | 19:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | so hang on till the weekend | 19:02 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r82bc730 / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey : Remove another bad file. - http://bit.ly/aXagbc | 19:02 |
| @tavisto | nm then, I'll just grab the one on your site and pull my magic | 19:03 |
| +MrHairgrease | ok | 19:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | if it looks like crap, i can always send you a good one anyway =) | 19:08 |
| @tavisto | I'm going to make a slight modification to the Oqapi and put your head on it... and then correct the spelling to OQAPPPPPPI! | 19:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | thanks for putting the stuff up | 19:08 |
| @tavisto | Don't make me come over there | 19:08 |
| @tavisto | actually, please do | 19:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'll read it tomorrow as I now have to go to The Bar... | 19:08 |
| @tavisto | That's exactly why I need to come over | 19:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | You should come over | 19:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | We're meeting at Locus Publicus in Delft | 19:09 |
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| @tavisto | I've been a terrible friend. Yes, been trying forever.. I should just book a flight and then I have to | 19:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | http://www.locuspublicus.nl/wb/ | 19:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | you do that! | 19:09 |
| +MrHairgrease | see you | 19:09 |
| @tavisto | haha, yeah unless you've got a concorde laying around.. I don't think that's going to work tonight. Have fun | 19:09 |
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| @Haarg | bleh. style cleanups are extremely annoying when merging. | 22:21 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry | 22:22 |
| * perlDreamer went a little crazy with detabification | 22:22 | |
| @Haarg | and $self->session -> $session :) | 22:22 |
| +perlDreamer | that's not style, that's speed | 22:22 |
| @preaction | anyone for making .wgpkg no longer compressed? or work with/without compression? | 22:22 |
| +perlDreamer | why? | 22:22 |
| @Haarg | working with or without sounds reasonable, but why? | 22:23 |
| @preaction | so wgpkg can be easily version controlled | 22:23 |
| @preaction | and incidentally, edited using normal tools (instead of requiring wgd or other de-archiver) | 22:23 |
| +perlDreamer | tar zxf works pretty well :) | 22:24 |
| @Haarg | i think it would be better to make a different format for it rather than relying on tar in that case | 22:24 |
| @preaction | yes, then you have to find the right 00000100000200000030000010000040000030000020000001000003.json file to edit | 22:24 |
| @preaction | hate hate hate. should be all nicely self-contained in one file somehow | 22:24 |
| @Haarg | i agree it would be preferable to have upgrade content be in plain text | 22:25 |
| @Haarg | but i don't think tar archives are the way to go | 22:26 |
| +perlDreamer | shar? | 22:26 |
| @preaction | no, a normal JSON archive would work better | 22:26 |
| @Haarg | i personally like wgd's format, but it's kind of odd and uses YAML | 22:26 |
| @Haarg | the other problem is binary files | 22:26 |
| @Haarg | we need a way to handle them as well | 22:27 |
| @preaction | assets : { 'relative lineage' : { asset props }, 'relative lineage' : { asset props } } <- something like that | 22:27 |
| @Haarg | lineage is ignored in the packages anyway | 22:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | binary content could be uuencoded | 22:28 |
| kimd | preaction, I am trying to follow your instructions. | 22:28 |
| kimd | But I ran into a problem. | 22:28 |
| kimd | The code for RFE11412 is in a separate branch. | 22:29 |
| kimd | I switched to that branch using 'git checkout rfe11412' | 22:29 |
| kimd | and tried to revert the last commit. | 22:29 |
| kimd | That produced an error, however. | 22:30 |
| @preaction | what error? | 22:30 |
| kimd | Apparently, the files modified since then were not reset to the last status. | 22:30 |
| kimd | error: Entry 'lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum.pm' not uptodate. Cannot merge. | 22:30 |
| kimd | fatal: merging of trees 538fa7ec25b5855780bc15680fc49a20c1f7cc07 and e65258ea5386be2207bf08b8cc89efe9f9394403 failed | 22:30 |
| kimd | I tried to reset to the status after that commit with 'git reset'. | 22:31 |
| @preaction | oh, no, you want "git checkout" | 22:31 |
| kimd | Seemed to work. But I am not entirely sure. Was that correct. | 22:31 |
| @preaction | git checkout == svn reset | 22:31 |
| @preaction | "not uptodate" means there are local changes | 22:31 |
| kimd | I did checkout before. | 22:31 |
| kimd | Exactly. | 22:31 |
| kimd | I need to get rid of these or I cannot revert that particular commit. | 22:31 |
| kimd | No worries, I saved the file that had been changed. | 22:32 |
| kimd | Was 'git reset' correct? | 22:32 |
| @preaction | no, git checkout is what you want | 22:32 |
| @preaction | checkout will change the file to the last committed revision | 22:32 |
| kimd | But it doesn't restore the original state in that branch. | 22:32 |
| kimd | It only seems to change to that branch. | 22:32 |
| kimd | Local modifications remain in the working copy. | 22:32 |
| @preaction | you have to git checkout every modified file. or "git checkout ." (it's recursive by default) | 22:34 |
| kimd | Hm. | 22:34 |
| @tavisto | preaction, it's time for wG to have a new default style. We've pasted fugly now | 22:36 |
| +perlDreamer | git reset --hard HEAD | 22:36 |
| +perlDreamer | that will reset the whole thing back to the last commit | 22:36 |
| @preaction | tavisto: i concur. should we grab a dozen from the bazaar, include them in the 7.9.x series, and ask a poll for the winner of "default"? | 22:37 |
| @preaction | i figure a dozen choices should be good for a default site style, no? | 22:37 |
| @tavisto | I've been using the underground style and it's amazing.. with a few tweaks it would be wonderful | 22:37 |
| @tavisto | Kristi and I were talking and we like the Bloo style too | 22:37 |
| @tavisto | many of the ones in the bazaare not all that great | 22:37 |
| @preaction | if we can't find a dozen passable ones, we can get Dagitz on making up a couple more from the OSWD or other free ones | 22:38 |
| @tavisto | we need something web 2.0ish though.. our design almost looks kiddish | 22:38 |
| @preaction | i'm sure Swanson would appreciate the sentiment (but it was very early in his career) ;) | 22:38 |
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| @preaction | does our Site Starter Wizard allow picking from existing style templates? | 22:39 |
| @tavisto | absolutely not. That's something I've been wanting for a long time. The ability to choose one of the designs in the bazaare | 22:39 |
| @preaction | we also need to change "Site Starter" to "Home Page Wizard" (so it can be run after the initial setup) | 22:39 |
| @preaction | well, that's a LOT more difficult, but we can include a few with the default install and let ppl choose from the installed templates pretty easily | 22:40 |
| @tavisto | I think that if people could get their design included in the options for wG core, then that would be motivation to make some more.. But for starters.. replacing the default would be most excellent | 22:40 |
| @preaction | and I do need to schedule some RFE days, despite what JT says about WG8 being my only priority (the status quo must be maintained) | 22:40 |
| @tavisto | and yes, I know Steve made the last design. But it's so dated so it's not his fault | 22:41 |
| @preaction | well, adding a drop-down box with a "Preview" button is pretty easy to do | 22:41 |
| @tavisto | yeah, see that's what I'm talking about | 22:41 |
| @tavisto | I think many people find webGUI but just turn away when they see the default templates aren't pretty or "what they are used to" | 22:41 |
| +perlDreamer | the Template Style wizard is close to what y'all want | 22:41 |
| +perlDreamer | and it can be run after install | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | but the Style Wizard and Site Starter have different features | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | there's an RFE to merge that | 22:42 |
| @preaction | not really. it generates a new style template. a horrible-looking shitty style template. | 22:42 |
| @tavisto | Here's a good example... Today I had a webinar at 2:30 ... the person attending laughed when she saw the default design. | 22:42 |
| @preaction | nice | 22:42 |
| @tavisto | she said... oh my gosh.. where is THIS design from! | 22:42 |
| @tavisto | I always play it off as just an old community design... but that's gotta stop | 22:42 |
| +perlDreamer | tavisto, WebGUI ships with 3 different style already | 22:42 |
| @tavisto | yeah those can all be scrapped and replaced if you ask me | 22:43 |
| @tavisto | I change them all the time during webinars when I'm taking people through templating | 22:43 |
| @tavisto | Kristi and I are okay with going thru the default content and making adjustments too | 22:43 |
| @Haarg | http://github.com/haarg/webgui/tree/webgui-8.0-merge well, i'm up to 7.8.2 :/ | 22:43 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Graham Knop webgui-8.0-merge * rdabce3e / (368 files in 116 dirs): Merge commit 'v7.8.2' into webgui-8.0-merge - http://bit.ly/bjczc9 | 22:43 |
| @tavisto | we just want Doug's buy-in so that we can get something to replace the default. I'm ALL for making the style wizard better though... (with even a choice of 3-4 designs... or a box to insert a wgpackage) | 22:44 |
| @preaction | okay, so tavisto, between the two of you come up with a list of styles from the bazaar you think are good enough to go into core. once that's done, i'll take some of my free time and put a dropdown and preview button in (a new Style form control). we'll get this into 7.9 | 22:45 |
| @preaction | if you can't come up with an even dozen, go to OSWD or http://www.styleshout.com/free-templates.php and pick some to make the difference | 22:46 |
| @preaction | i prefer the styleshout guy's templates, but it's only one guy | 22:46 |
| @tavisto | yeah I was wondering if we could even use the converted ones from OSWD or the Styleshout ones | 22:46 |
| @tavisto | can we bundle that in wG? | 22:46 |
| +perlDreamer | only if the licenses allow it | 22:47 |
| @preaction | yes, the styleshout ones are CC-attribution. the OSWD all have different licenses but that's the idea | 22:47 |
| @preaction | Open-Source Web Designs | 22:47 |
| @tavisto | Ok, you really want to let people vote on 12 different ones? I was thinking like 3 | 22:47 |
| @preaction | and the styleshout guy would be really excited if 12 of his templates were included with WebGUI | 22:47 |
| @preaction | 3 is pathetic. not even worth the effort. | 22:47 |
| @preaction | give them some REAL choice | 22:47 |
| @tavisto | for the new default I mean | 22:47 |
| @tavisto | oh brother, I've created a monster | 22:48 |
| @preaction | oh, there's one "default", it's the one that is picked by default. but people can choose between 12 during the site starter wizard | 22:48 |
| @tavisto | Alright, yeah I'm down with the option of 12 | 22:48 |
| @preaction | so we pick the most compatible one as a default, and have the other 11 as options | 22:48 |
| @tavisto | Yeah that works | 22:49 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, you might want to run this past TWG. They just finished cleaning up Style 01, Style 02 and Style 03 templates and CSS | 22:50 |
| @preaction | heh, yeah that's probably a good idea | 22:50 |
| @preaction | maybe they'll help even | 22:50 |
| +perlDreamer | hopefully! | 22:50 |
| @tavisto | yikes, they've been working on those old junky templates... ahhhhh | 22:50 |
| @tavisto | Well Bloo was designed by Rogier | 22:50 |
| @tavisto | so that one he'd like. :) | 22:50 |
| +perlDreamer | and if you don't pick underground as the winner, you're all fools | 22:51 |
| @tavisto | exactly | 22:51 |
| @tavisto | I love the underground!!! | 22:51 |
| @tavisto | so does...wait for it.... | 22:51 |
| @preaction | and also this could be a test of the current set of TWG templates | 22:51 |
| @tavisto | KOEN! | 22:51 |
| @preaction | good god... it took me like an hour... | 22:51 |
| @tavisto | If he likes it... it's a miracle | 22:51 |
| @preaction | he uses it for webgui.nl iirc | 22:51 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 22:51 |
| @tavisto | yessir | 22:52 |
| @tavisto | that's my vote | 22:52 |
| @tavisto | but, you're right this guy at styleshout has some good ones | 22:52 |
| @preaction | underground is one of his | 22:52 |
| @tavisto | yep | 22:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd let y'all have the one for perlDreamer.com, but I like having the coolest website | 22:58 |
| @Haarg | perlDreamer, one of the things i saw when merging was a commit that converted autoGenerate=>0 to noFormPost=>0 in Product | 22:59 |
| @Haarg | am i missing something or is that the wrong way around? | 22:59 |
| +perlDreamer | there is no more autoGenerate | 22:59 |
| +perlDreamer | it's noFormPost for now | 22:59 |
| @Haarg | yes, but wouldn't it be noFormPost => 1 ? | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 23:00 |
| @Haarg | ok | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we need a pleaseFormPost option, too | 23:00 |
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| @tavisto | preaction, could wG easily support "cat" authentication through the pluggable authentication that we support? My assumption is that we could dev a plugin to handle that | 23:36 |
| @preaction | what is cat auth? | 23:37 |
| @tavisto | It was brought up a couple times in the webinar I hosted today. It's a air force base and they kept asking about it | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | it sees if you are a cat | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | if you are, it lets you in | 23:37 |
| @tavisto | well what I can find on google is that it's Cellular Authentication Token | 23:37 |
| +perlDreamer | if you're not, it unleases a dog on your sorry buttocks | 23:37 |
| @tavisto | but that doesn't seem right. Is there something close those letters | 23:37 |
| @tavisto | hmm maybe she was saying CAS | 23:40 |
| @tavisto | CAS would make more sense.. but I swear she kept saying CAT or something like ti | 23:41 |
| @tavisto | I didn't want to look like a doofus and ask her what she was talking about.. Figured I would just look it up afterwards :) | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, you're not a dev. You can safely look like a doofus | 23:48 |
| @tavisto | for something like auth I've heard just about everything... just not that. | 23:53 |
| @tavisto | I basically just tiptoed thru the convo about auth and said that our pluggable auth could support anything although some custom dev would be required | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | that's probably true | 23:54 |
| @tavisto | yep, has been in all cases in the past | 23:54 |
| @tavisto | perlDreamer, do you have paypal implemented yet? | 23:55 |
| @tavisto | the answer had better be yes! | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | no, frodwith did it last year | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | it's very nicely done, too | 23:55 |
| @frodwith | why thank you! | 23:55 |
| @tavisto | ok... and so | 23:55 |
| @tavisto | it's not in the core and ready to go for what reason | 23:55 |
| @tavisto | who do I have to karate chop into oblivion | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | it's in the core and has been for > 6 months | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | what do you want, tavisto? | 23:56 |
| @tavisto | if that's the case then what's preventing us from using it | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | Which "us" are you talking about? | 23:56 |
| @tavisto | TGC | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | a) You're not up to date enough yet | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | b) It's not setup correctly? | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | I can check on (a) | 23:57 |
| @tavisto | interesting | 23:57 |
| @tavisto | no it is listed as a payment method option | 23:57 |
| @tavisto | hmmmm..... | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | tavisto, do I need to come over there, stick my feet into your armpits and ride you like a pogo stick? | 23:58 |
| @tavisto | you need to do that to whoever hasn't enabled paypal for TGC | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | get off your lazy, potato wearing butt and set it up so we can us it already! | 23:58 |
| @tavisto | because we've had requests for that | 23:59 |
| @tavisto | I thought we were waiting on something (testing, bug fixing, etc... full implementation) | 23:59 |
| @tavisto | I'm about to go Chuck Norris on our devs for this | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | __thought__ | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | why don't you offer to buy frodwith a beverage of choice, and have him walk you through a setup? | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Thu Mar 25 2010 | ||
| @tavisto | I can't buy him anything, because PAYPAL isn't ACTIVATED | 00:00 |
| @tavisto | ;) | 00:00 |
| @Haarg | afaik there is a real reason it isn't enabled on tgc | 00:00 |
| @tavisto | *Tavisto pulls out his machine gun* | 00:00 |
| @frodwith | yeah, I remember there being a reason | 00:00 |
| @frodwith | but I don't remember what it was. | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | what's the reason, Haarg? | 00:01 |
| @tavisto | hehe, i love it | 00:01 |
| @Haarg | don't remember | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, you're next up | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | Why can't we use the PayPal driver that's in the core? | 00:01 |
| @tavisto | I'll take Random wG Questions for 400, Alex | 00:02 |
| @frodwith | The answer is: another daily double! | 00:02 |
| @tavisto | DAMN YOU AND YOUR DAILY DOUBLE YA BRIGAND! | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll wager half, Alex. | 00:03 |
| @tavisto | Despite your best efforts.... The letter V is a number.. Let's see what you wagered..... | 00:03 |
| * perlDreamer wagered half, perlDr | 00:04 | |
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| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra10e65f / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm : Use Moose method modifiers for overriding addRev in Story. - http://bit.ly/c1NiWN | 00:10 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r56fcb76 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm : Rework StoryArchive for exceptions and modifiers. - http://bit.ly/aHh0Dm | 00:10 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8a3f36a / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Article.pm : Fix an accessor name. - http://bit.ly/aXzGqG | 00:10 |
| @Haarg | eamer, have you dealt with allowEmpty in webgui 8? | 00:11 |
| +eamer | from what I'm seeing, we can't stop it from happening | 00:11 |
| +eamer | Moose accessors will happily be set to undef | 00:11 |
| @Haarg | ok | 00:12 |
| @Haarg | how it should be imo | 00:12 |
| +eamer | I concur | 00:12 |
| * eamer goes for a run to blow off steam | 00:14 | |
| @Haarg | well, i have up to 7.8.10 merged (untested) | 00:15 |
| @Haarg | going to have to take a break from that | 00:15 |
| @frodwith | i thought required on an attribute made it so undef wasn't okay | 00:25 |
| @frodwith | hmm, guess not. | 00:26 |
| @frodwith | you can do isa =.> 'Defined' thoug | 00:28 |
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| +eamer | required just means it has to be present when the object is instanciated | 01:54 |
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| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r54f0148 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Article.pm : Use lots and lots of Moose modifiers in the Article. - http://bit.ly/aDVCag | 02:01 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r237eaa9 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add a version tag so we work on a committed parent. - http://bit.ly/anUV3g | 02:02 |
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| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r743e57c / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm : Add a test for the Story asset. - http://bit.ly/cWHwmc | 03:26 |
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| carogray | In the middle of a tutorial. My content manager's version tag isn't showing up anywhere - where should I look? | 16:37 |
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| +bartjol | maybe in admin mail | 16:40 |
| +bartjol | inbox in the sitre | 16:40 |
| +bartjol | if you have configured that it should be confirmed | 16:40 |
| +bartjol | carogray: that is my first guess | 16:41 |
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| carogray | I gave up on teaching while trying to figure this out. | 16:56 |
| carogray | checking admin mail | 16:56 |
| +patspam | yay, I received my american now-we-believe-that-you-exist card | 16:57 |
| carogray | nothing in admin mail | 17:05 |
| carogray | the article is locked | 17:06 |
| carogray | I click on revisions - it takes me to committed version tags list | 17:06 |
| carogray | however the changes that were made were not made in any of those version tags | 17:06 |
| carogray | there should be an automatically created version tag somewhere, but it is not showing up anywhere. | 17:07 |
| carogray | My user is a content manager with UI level 9-guru | 17:07 |
| carogray | I have given him the ability to have multiple version tags | 17:07 |
| carogray | originally he inherited from site settings. | 17:07 |
| carogray | I changed this to various things in hopes of his version tag showing up, no luck | 17:08 |
| carogray | I cannot figure out where else to look | 17:08 |
| +bartjol | mmm | 17:13 |
| +bartjol | I would go in the db | 17:13 |
| +bartjol | but I assume that that is not an option | 17:14 |
| carogray | ok...thatmeans pb support board | 17:14 |
| +bartjol | what users are in the version tag managers group? | 17:14 |
| carogray | It is an option but it would take me forever cause I only have done it every 2-3 year and it takes all day | 17:14 |
| carogray | ah ha.. let me look | 17:14 |
| +bartjol | become one of them and look in the inbox | 17:15 |
| carogray | no one is in there | 17:15 |
| +bartjol | what are the version tag settings? | 17:15 |
| carogray | ok I am in there now | 17:16 |
| carogray | the version tag settings? | 17:16 |
| carogray | where would I find that? | 17:16 |
| +bartjol | content tab in settings | 17:16 |
| +bartjol | morning patspam | 17:16 |
| +patspam | hey bart! | 17:17 |
| +bartjol | made a nice nagios check that checks db connections for the dsn an all the slave's dsn | 17:17 |
| carogray | oh duh ...multiple version tags per user - so when he inherited site settings he already had this | 17:17 |
| +bartjol | and is approval requested? | 17:18 |
| +patspam | nice | 17:18 |
| carogray | default version tage workflow - commit without approval | 17:18 |
| +patspam | we should start a collection of wG nagios checks | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | yeah, they're starting to pile up | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | only strange thing was that on my test server, when I used a bogus IP it took forever to finish, and now on the production it finishes in seconds | 17:19 |
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| +bartjol | carogray: mmm I get a suspicion that there might be something wrong with spectre | 17:20 |
| +bartjol | something to see if you go to workflows->show running workflows? | 17:21 |
| carogray | that's what I was thinking... | 17:21 |
| carogray | Ok - sending a notice to support board now. just didn't want it to be something dumb I had overlooked. | 17:21 |
| +bartjol | oh, I suppose you also reported all your actions trying to resolve it? | 17:22 |
| carogray | yep, just did. | 17:27 |
| +bartjol | reports that only state 'it doesn't work' are so.... disappointing | 17:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | bartjol, what is the international calling prefix for The Netherlands? | 18:01 |
| +bartjol | ow | 18:01 |
| +bartjol | 0031 | 18:01 |
| +bartjol | +31 | 18:02 |
| +bartjol | so if you wanna caal me it is 0031618204196 | 18:02 |
| carogray | actually from the US it is 01131...... | 18:02 |
| +bartjol | sorry perlDreamer, I'm a bit slow today | 18:02 |
| +bartjol | ah | 18:02 |
| carogray | had to butt in International calling code from US is 011 | 18:03 |
| carogray | gets my English husband everytime and we have arguments involving the word 'stupid' | 18:03 |
| +bartjol | :) | 18:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | thanks to both of you | 18:09 |
| +perlDreamer | my Dutch customer is very happy now | 18:09 |
| @preaction | yay! | 18:09 |
| +perlDreamer | and bartjol, if I ever need to call you to see if you want to go out for a beer, now I know how | 18:09 |
| +bartjol | why do you steal dutch customers from us :P | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not stealing | 18:12 |
| +perlDreamer | they hadn't worked with you yet | 18:12 |
| +bartjol | ah | 18:13 |
| * perlDreamer goes to the gym | 18:14 | |
| +patspam | perlDreamer: $patspam->getId() returns a valid number now | 18:15 |
| +bartjol | patspam: are you a perl object? | 18:17 |
| +patspam | I aspire to be | 18:17 |
| +patspam | actually I think I'd prefer to be a first-class anonymous function | 18:18 |
| +bartjol | luckily, people here are normal | 18:19 |
| +patspam | this is fascinating: http://lumberjaph.net/blog/index.php/2010/03/25/github-explorer/ | 18:33 |
| +bartjol | cool stuff, allthough the graphs are are a bit hard to interpret | 18:54 |
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| @tavisto | perlDreamer, did Doug win 400 yesterday? | 20:03 |
| @preaction | i don't know did i? | 20:05 |
| @tavisto | did you know the reason why we couldn't use PayPal on TGC yet? | 20:05 |
| @preaction | no | 20:05 |
| @tavisto | that was the Random wG Question for 400 alex | 20:05 |
| @preaction | ahh | 20:05 |
| @preaction | i choose not to accept the assignment mr phelps | 20:05 |
| @tavisto | the payment plugin resides on the TGC site so I'm wondering why we haven't activated it | 20:06 |
| @tavisto | Mysteriously, no one seems to remember why we can't use it | 20:06 |
| +perlDreamer | tavisto: only the Shadow knows.... | 20:18 |
| @tavisto | well son of ah bee | 20:19 |
| @tavisto | that's it, I'm going to opencms | 20:19 |
| @preaction | don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out | 20:20 |
| @tavisto | ok I'm back, opencms sucks | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | how about if we just try it out? | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | make the driver private, so only Admins can use it | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and we try the checkout | 20:24 |
| @tavisto | I noticed there is a test sandbox w/ paypal | 20:25 |
| @tavisto | But I was just bringing up the question since it was requested a few times on TGC and it appears like we could enable it | 20:25 |
| +perlDreamer | Quit grousing, and test it! | 20:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, does the "+" attribute override syntax work on properties? | 22:31 |
| @Haarg | i haven't really tested it. | 22:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I was working on a Sku that doesn't do ships separately, and got to thinking how to do that in wg8, and realized I had no idea myself | 22:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll build some tests later | 22:33 |
| +perlDreamer | we can always go through the meta class to get it and modify it | 22:33 |
| @Haarg | yeah | 22:33 |
| +perlDreamer | but sugary is easier | 22:33 |
| @Haarg | the traits and form stuff may be problematic | 22:33 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 22:34 |
| +perlDreamer | traits cannot be overridden | 22:34 |
| +perlDreamer | what I'm really interested in is tab, and fieldType | 22:34 |
| @Haarg | but the property code will probably try to override the traits | 22:37 |
| @Haarg | and it won't find the correct trait list and will construct form wrong | 22:38 |
| @Haarg | overriding fieldtype sounds like a bad idea | 22:38 |
| @Haarg | not in that it will cause problems, but in that it should be handled in a different way | 22:38 |
| +perlDreamer | you're right. I think what I really mean is noFormPost. Between that, and tab (and form) we can allow designers to do a lot | 22:40 |
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| @preaction | would it be bad for us to FORCE captcha if a dataform is viewable by Everyone or Visitors? | 23:35 |
| @preaction | i keep getting spam notices from the sites i administer, some from dataforms that the admins probably don't even know about (so i don't know how the heck the spambots found them) | 23:35 |
| +perlDreamer | they're crawly little bastards | 23:36 |
| @preaction | right? so why should we give them any opportunity? isn't it the idea of WebGUI to protect the content managers from things they shouldn't have to worry about, like spambots? | 23:37 |
| @Haarg | preaction, you can see some examples of the upgrade thing i was working on at http://github.com/haarg/webgui/tree/upgrades/t/supporting_collateral/Upgrade/ although they are tests so they aren't quite normal. | 23:52 |
| @Haarg | like you said, it's not a high priority thing. just wanted to make sure i wasn't going in the wrong direction with it. | 23:56 |
| @preaction | i'll look later, right now i'm trying to figure out how to unravel PIRG's dev server. there is no way this should work at all, and yet here it is, partially working. | 23:56 |
| @Haarg | oh fun | 23:57 |
| @preaction | they've got an image that shows up, only in https mode | 23:57 |
| @preaction | there's only one https site on this apache server, and it does not have the image (document root doesn't even exist) | 23:57 |
| @preaction | wait. apache lets you have a documentroot that doesn't exist? | 23:58 |
| @preaction | yep, apparently | 23:58 |
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| --- Day changed Fri Mar 26 2010 | ||
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, is there a good solution for getting DataForm data out in CSV format? | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not thinking of anything easy | 00:17 |
| @preaction | is TSV not as good? | 00:18 |
| @Haarg | it does tab separated exports. that's about the only option. easy to convert that though. | 00:18 |
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| +perlDreamer | when was that feature added? | 00:20 |
| @Haarg | 2004 | 00:21 |
| @Haarg | it's always been part of the dataform | 00:22 |
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| @preaction | uh... so if 00_compile.t doesn't pass I don't get to run the test suite? | 02:23 |
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| +perlDreamer | Moose 1.0 is released! | 03:43 |
| +perlDreamer | with kudos for documentation patches for Haarg | 03:44 |
| +perlDreamer | nice work, dude | 03:44 |
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| CIA-104 | webgui: kimd master * r8104338 / (10 files in 7 dirs): Added additional navigation to the photo asset (RFE 11412). - http://bit.ly/aRK3Bx | 04:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | working late, dionak? | 04:12 |
| dionak | no, just popped on to check directions for a meeting tomorrow. you, perlDreamer? | 04:12 |
| dionak | must be 7pm there | 04:12 |
| +perlDreamer | pretty much every night for me | 04:12 |
| dionak | big project? | 04:12 |
| +perlDreamer | taking care of the kids during day costs me a few hours of work each night to make up for it | 04:13 |
| dionak | ah | 04:13 |
| +perlDreamer | for example, today was science project day | 04:13 |
| dionak | that must be a great lifestyle though. | 04:13 |
| +perlDreamer | I really like it | 04:13 |
| dionak | nice! :) | 04:13 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r47687a9 / (6 files in 2 dirs): moved packages to right place for 7.9.2 - http://bit.ly/9jkNmF | 04:13 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r57d6366 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : added changelog entry - http://bit.ly/bUMYik | 04:13 |
| dionak | sounds like a lot of fun | 04:13 |
| +perlDreamer | there are days, and there are days | 04:14 |
| +perlDreamer | today was a good one | 04:14 |
| dionak | i'm sure | 04:14 |
| +perlDreamer | any day you can put mentos into soda bottles you can be sure that good things will happen | 04:14 |
| dionak | you have two kids? | 04:14 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 04:14 |
| dionak | girl and a boy? | 04:15 |
| +perlDreamer | two boys | 04:15 |
| dionak | oh, wow. you have your hands full! haha | 04:15 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, yeah | 04:15 |
| dionak | are you attending the wuc again this year? we've been discussing presentations lately. | 04:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I would really like to attend this year, but budgeting is rough | 04:16 |
| +perlDreamer | especially with Kathy in school full time | 04:16 |
| dionak | yea, i think it's that way all around | 04:16 |
| +perlDreamer | is Knowmad attending in force again? | 04:16 |
| dionak | we're planning to, all three of us | 04:17 |
| +perlDreamer | awesome | 04:17 |
| dionak | hence the thoughts about presenting. it helps with the budget | 04:17 |
| dionak | and we love madison. great town | 04:17 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, it's a nice place | 04:18 |
| +perlDreamer | if all goes to plan, my family will be attending the WUC in 2013 | 04:18 |
| +perlDreamer | when they finish the train line there | 04:18 |
| dionak | nice. would love to meet them | 04:18 |
| @preaction | heh, yeah that'll never happen | 04:18 |
| +perlDreamer | bite your tongue, preaction! | 04:18 |
| +perlDreamer | they were shocked that any state's capitol would not be served by Amtrak | 04:19 |
| dionak | uh yea...with our stellar train system that is surprising ;) | 04:19 |
| dionak | how are things at PB? busy? | 04:19 |
| * perlDreamer doesn't know. perlDreamer is only a small cog in a big machine | 04:20 | |
| dionak | lol | 04:20 |
| +perlDreamer | had to slip in a Blazing Saddles quote | 04:21 |
| dionak | i've got to get to bed. i'm not an early bird and i have a 7am meeting tomorrow. | 04:21 |
| +perlDreamer | good luck :) | 04:21 |
| dionak | tks. good night to you both. hope to see you this year if you can make it to WUC | 04:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | I think I'm going to call it a night as well | 04:22 |
| +perlDreamer | good night, preaction | 04:23 |
| @preaction | night | 04:23 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 15:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | Greasings! | 15:17 |
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| +bartjol | hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm | 16:29 |
| +MrHairgrease | BartJol: alles ok? | 16:29 |
| * bartjol is trying to stay zen while updating windows with a customer breathing in my neck | 16:29 | |
| +MrHairgrease | hmmmm, customer breath | 16:30 |
| +bartjol | doing all his updates from long ago and first reaction is, "gaat het nog lang duren????" | 16:31 |
| +MrHairgrease | well, and is it? | 16:37 |
| +bartjol | it will take a long time | 16:40 |
| +bartjol | close to infinite | 16:40 |
| +MrHairgrease | close to infinite is infinite as well | 16:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | so I guess you'r missing out on the vrimibo | 16:41 |
| +bartjol | I just devide by zero, and escape via the error | 16:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | right... | 16:46 |
| SDuensin | You said "Windows". Watch your mouth! | 16:58 |
| +bartjol | SDuensin: sorry, just washed it with soap | 17:02 |
| SDuensin | Dang. The GWT compiler is slow. I don't remember it being that slow last time I used it. | 17:07 |
| +bartjol | maybe you're fast | 17:08 |
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| seriftron | does anyone know what (mis)configuration can cause the wrong webgui site to be returned on a multi-site setup? | 17:39 |
| seriftron | i've checked mod_proxy and /etc/hosts and the webgui config and things look okay. | 17:40 |
| +bartjol | maybe an /etc/hosts file issue | 17:40 |
| +bartjol | ah | 17:40 |
| seriftron | i'm using stock configs except for the addition of some serveraliases in the mod_proxy conf | 17:40 |
| seriftron | and i can tell from the mod_proxy logs that the correct document root for the hostname is being returned, just not the correct site | 17:41 |
| +MrHairgrease | seriftron: prolly the virtual host of the site doesn't have the right servername or serveralias | 17:41 |
| +bartjol | that might also happen in the moperl conf or the sitename in the webgui conf | 17:42 |
| +MrHairgrease | also, did you estart mod_proxy afeter settin the serveraliases | 17:42 |
| seriftron | yes. double-checking vhost names with the webgui.conf sitename... | 17:42 |
| +bartjol | veters? | 17:43 |
| +MrHairgrease | bart, what do you mean? | 17:43 |
| +bartjol | are they tightened? | 17:44 |
| +MrHairgrease | yup | 17:44 |
| +bartjol | oh, I stole some code from you | 17:45 |
| +MrHairgrease | right.. | 17:46 |
| +MrHairgrease | well, have fun with it | 17:46 |
| +bartjol | thanks | 17:46 |
| seriftron | hm, everything looks alright. i guess i will turn up logging for mod_perl and mod_proxy and continue debugging | 17:49 |
| seriftron | thanks guys | 17:49 |
| +bartjol | ok, good luck | 17:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | indeed | 17:50 |
| +MrHairgrease | good luck | 17:50 |
| seriftron | thanks | 17:50 |
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| +bartjol | hey kimd, already have a Gooey? | 17:57 |
| kimd | Yes! I got one. Kind gift from oqapi. | 17:57 |
| kimd | They sent me two in fact. | 17:57 |
| kimd | My daughter loves hers. | 17:57 |
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| kimd | As soon as I get to it, I will post a photo of mine. | 17:58 |
| kimd | How is business going? | 17:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | business is almost weekend! | 17:58 |
| +MrHairgrease | which is good | 17:58 |
| kimd | Weekend is always good. Mine has started already. | 17:58 |
| * MrHairgrease envies kimd | 17:59 | |
| kimd | Don't be envious. It is my single week of vacation before I need to move and start work at my new employer. | 18:00 |
| kimd | I was pretty worn out the week before. | 18:00 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm not really. | 18:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | We have beer here | 18:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | =) | 18:01 |
| kimd | I see. Is that the typical Friday afternoon? Casual Friday? | 18:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | Nope. | 18:01 |
| +MrHairgrease | Just Friday | 18:01 |
| kimd | So, where is that where you get served beer at work on Friday afternoons? | 18:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | At Oqapi of course =) | 18:02 |
| +MrHairgrease | and the boss is serving | 18:03 |
| kimd | Ah, cool! Thanks for the two Gooeys! | 18:03 |
| kimd | I love mine already. | 18:03 |
| kimd | It's hanging right next to me. | 18:04 |
| kimd | A true source of inspiration. | 18:04 |
| * kimd is getting thirsty. (Too much talking of beer) | 18:04 | |
| +MrHairgrease | I understand completely | 18:04 |
| kimd | We will have beer tomorrow. Lots of beer. | 18:06 |
| kimd | If you don't mind to come all the way over here you are invited, of course! | 18:06 |
| kimd | We are going to have a small farewell party with friends. | 18:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | tomorrow will be kind of difficult | 18:06 |
| +MrHairgrease | too bad... | 18:07 |
| kimd | Next time in Basel, then. | 18:07 |
| kimd | You could even fly there (in contrast to Heidelberg). | 18:07 |
| +MrHairgrease | I'm going to Swiss in september, and then we'll be driving through basel | 18:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | so who knows | 18:08 |
| +MrHairgrease | but you are moving down south then? | 18:09 |
| kimd | We should have moved completely and be ready for guests in September. | 18:10 |
| kimd | Drop me a note before you travel. | 18:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | who knows | 18:10 |
| +MrHairgrease | are you going to the wuc? | 18:10 |
| kimd | No, unfortunately not. The flight + extras is too expensive for me. | 18:11 |
| kimd | I do not have an employer covering it. | 18:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | i see | 18:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | yeah, that's my luck | 18:11 |
| kimd | Maybe, I will combine the wuc with some nice holiday trip in the future. | 18:11 |
| +MrHairgrease | otherwise it wou;d've nbeen very expensove for me as well | 18:12 |
| kimd | But if the dutch community should organize something in the Netherlands, I would not hesitate to join... | 18:12 |
| +MrHairgrease | I you happen to pass through the netherlands, just let us know. | 18:13 |
| +bartjol | beer will be cold | 18:14 |
| +bartjol | at oqapi | 18:14 |
| +bartjol | not at procolix | 18:14 |
| kimd | Does that mean I should bring my own beer? | 18:15 |
| kimd | Or at least some dry ice? | 18:15 |
| +bartjol | well, we are next to oqapi | 18:16 |
| +bartjol | so if we smile polite and ask for a beer, you are ok | 18:16 |
| +MrHairgrease | scerw that, we'll go to the bar | 18:17 |
| kimd | Good news. At oqapi then. | 18:17 |
| kimd | Even better. | 18:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | my idea | 18:17 |
| +bartjol | now? | 18:17 |
| +MrHairgrease | uhm | 18:18 |
| +MrHairgrease | about 30 mins ok | 18:18 |
| kimd | Have fun! I will go groceries shopping now. | 18:19 |
| kimd | Everyone a nice weekend! | 18:19 |
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| ckotil | anyone have an addon for webgui to mimic git or svn for file management? | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | What kind of files, ckotil? | 20:02 |
| +perlDreamer | Asset files, or collateral support files? | 20:02 |
| ckotil | asset file | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I've never heard of anything like that | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | rizen has done some work with DAV, but nothing with git/svn | 20:03 |
| ckotil | yeah, ive been following that closely. its been stalled. | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | it needs a dev | 20:04 |
| ckotil | it would be nice to have an svn interface so you could say `svn diff local.file webgui.asset` | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | you could look into Padre for that | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | patspam has been a wonderful WebGUI plugin that may do just that | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | the diff part, anyway | 20:06 |
| ckotil | cool | 20:06 |
| +patspam | or you can use wgd to serialise your assets to local files, and turn that into a local repo | 20:07 |
| ckotil | that's not a bad idea. | 20:07 |
| +patspam | I showed how to do it at the wuc last year | 20:08 |
| +perlDreamer | wgd requires you to be on the server. Will Padre let users do that from their desktops? | 20:08 |
| +patspam | I think graham built a plugin for wgd to do the serialising properly now too | 20:08 |
| +patspam | Padre lets you edit remotely | 20:08 |
| +patspam | so you can e.g. edit templates with a html-aware editor | 20:09 |
| +patspam | it can show you diffs between saved/unsaved, but it doesn't (yet) have support to pull out old revisions | 20:09 |
| +patspam | that would be cool | 20:09 |
| +patspam | probably wouldn't be that hard either | 20:09 |
| +perlDreamer | not if it can already talk to WebGUI | 20:10 |
| +patspam | it shows you the remote site's asset tree inside padre, and already has context-menu support | 20:10 |
| ckotil | sounds promising, ill have to check it out | 20:10 |
| +patspam | currently the only 2 options are "Edit" and "Info" (that just shows you meta-data for the asset) | 20:10 |
| +patspam | you could have another that shows you the list of revisions for the asset, then lets you open that revision, or directly launch the diff etc.. | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe I should try some Padre hackery | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | is the GUI stuff hard to learn? | 20:12 |
| ckotil | patspam: if i were to use wgd to serialize assets to local files, could i then sync those files back to my assets? | 20:17 |
| +patspam | yes | 20:18 |
| +patspam | perlDreamer: the only hard part is that the WxPerl docs really suck | 20:18 |
| ckotil | i can envision svn kicking off the workflow to do that :) | 20:18 |
| +patspam | most Padre plugins live in Alias' svn repo, so mostly I just ack for similar examples to what I want to do | 20:19 |
| +patspam | or ask on #padre | 20:19 |
| +patspam | ckotil: that would be awesome | 20:19 |
| +patspam | Haarg invented a YAML-based serialisation format for assets | 20:20 |
| +patspam | "wgd edit" uses it to allow you to edit assets and their meta-data via your $EDITOR | 20:20 |
| +patspam | it serialises, then spawns an editor with the text-based serialisation for you to edit, then deserialises and commits back to your site as a new revision | 20:21 |
| +patspam | when I was doing it I was using my own wgd plugin called snapshot | 20:23 |
| +patspam | but I think export-branch is the new plugin for doing it | 20:23 |
| ckotil | ohh nice. | 20:23 |
| +patspam | combined with "wgd import" | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, export-branch sounds right | 20:24 |
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| * perlDreamer goes running, and ponders code organization and roles | 21:02 | |
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| +patspam | sounds like a dangerous combination | 22:24 |
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| +patspam | wonderful, paypal has changed their API so that if the cmd=_xclick form you POST to them contains unrecognised params, it no longer works | 23:29 |
| +patspam | webguiCsrfToken, for example | 23:29 |
| @Haarg | wonderful | 23:30 |
| +patspam | https://www.x.com/thread/42018 | 23:30 |
| +patspam | one solution is to change the form method from POST to GET | 23:30 |
| +patspam | which is kinda ugly | 23:30 |
| +patspam | I'm going to patch my WebGUI::Form::getHeader to make the CSRF thing controllable | 23:31 |
| +patspam | actually getting rid of webguiCsrfToken doesn't fix it, so far the only thing that works for me is changing POST to GET | 23:38 |
| +perlDreamer | patspam, O'Reilly just put out a CFP for Open Source in Health Care | 23:39 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a whole track about it at OSCON this year | 23:40 |
| +perlDreamer | http://radar.oreilly.com/2010/03/why-health-care-is-coming-to-t.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+oreilly%2Fradar%2Fatom+%28O%27Reilly+Radar%29 | 23:40 |
| +patspam | cool! | 23:40 |
| +patspam | ah nailed it! | 23:45 |
| +patspam | paypal now refuses POST with enctype="multipart/form-data" | 23:45 |
| +patspam | which is the default for WebGUI::Form::formHeader unless you provide an explicit enctype | 23:45 |
| +patspam | changing it to 'application/x-www-form-urlencoded' works, and you don't need to remove the webguiCsrfToken | 23:46 |
| +perlDreamer | phew | 23:48 |
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| --- Day changed Sat Mar 27 2010 | ||
| kimd | perlDreamer, here (http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/10994) you say that you added a progress bar to the gallery when uploading zip archives. | 00:20 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, kimd | 00:20 |
| kimd | I just updated to 7.8.15. | 00:20 |
| kimd | There is no progress bar. | 00:20 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 00:20 |
| kimd | Is that a templating issue? | 00:20 |
| kimd | I am not using the default templates. | 00:21 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0a49321 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Donation.pm : Fix typo in POD - http://bit.ly/adWaoE | 00:21 |
| +perlDreamer | it is a core issue | 00:21 |
| +perlDreamer | perhaps it did not get backported | 00:21 |
| * perlDreamer will check | 00:21 | |
| kimd | You wrote "fixed in 7.7.21 and 7.8.1" | 00:21 |
| kimd | My current version is 7.8.15 | 00:21 |
| +perlDreamer | this is odd, all the correct code is there | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | let's set up a site and try importing an archive | 00:23 |
| kimd | I will do that. | 00:24 |
| kimd | I have an archive ready. | 00:24 |
| kimd | Give me 5 minutes. | 00:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I created a site from scratch (since I don't any sites to upgrade 7.8.15 | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | i added a Gallery, and put an album in the gallery | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I clicked the Add Photo link, then Add Archive | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | Uploaded an archive, and a I got a Progress Bar | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | quite beautiful and informative, if I do say so myself | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | What have you done the Gallery, kimd? | 00:28 |
| kimd | perlDreamer, I am stupid :-/ | 00:28 |
| kimd | I have a custom version of GalleryAlbum.pm installed. | 00:28 |
| kimd | That must be the reason. | 00:28 |
| kimd | I need to merge changes first. | 00:28 |
| kimd | I am sorry for stealing your time. | 00:28 |
| +perlDreamer | no sweat, dude | 00:28 |
| +perlDreamer | what's custom about your Album? | 00:28 |
| +perlDreamer | is it the drag and drop sorting, or something more? | 00:29 |
| kimd | Exactly. Plus the navigation in the photo view. | 00:29 |
| kimd | The stuff I want to submit to the core. | 00:29 |
| +perlDreamer | this is a picture of my sons, at OSCON 2008 http://imagebin.ca/view/47Sn9qQ.html | 00:30 |
| +perlDreamer | Has the navigation RFE been approved yet, kimd? | 00:31 |
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| kimd | preaction was planning to include it in 7.9.1 | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | cool | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | that's in two weeks, so there's lots of time for merging | 00:32 |
| kimd | I have seen the commit in the webgui repo already. | 00:32 |
| +perlDreamer | even better :) | 00:32 |
| kimd | I am looking forward to it. There is so much work still to do on the gallery. | 00:33 |
| kimd | I want it to become a really cool asset. | 00:33 |
| kimd | pearlDreamer, where did you add that progress bar code? | 00:35 |
| kimd | Is it the photo asset? | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | it's in the album | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | you can find the commit number in the bug report | 00:37 |
| kimd | Hm, I cannot find it when comparing my version with the core version. | 00:38 |
| kimd | The diff only returns my changes. | 00:38 |
| kimd | Very strange. | 00:38 |
| kimd | perlDreamer, when is the progress bar supposed to appear? | 00:40 |
| kimd | After uploading or during uploading? | 00:40 |
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| kimd | Ok, the progress bar is there. I just never got it to see because my archive was too big. | 00:51 |
| kimd | modperl exited with the following error message: | 00:51 |
| kimd | /home/spunky/Desktop/Steinbruch Schriesheim.zip | 00:51 |
| kimd | [Fri Mar 26 23:16:39 2010] [error] [client 81.169.168.193] (20014)Internal error: Content-Length header (80392582) exceeds configured max_body limit (6710886 | 00:52 |
| kimd | 4), referer: http://www.klettern-md.de/home/geschichten/bunte-bilder/schriesheimer-steinbruch?func=addArchive | 00:52 |
| kimd | Everything is fine then. Sorry again. | 00:52 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ | 22:56 | |
| +perlDreamer | howdy, preaction | 23:11 |
| @preaction | sup holme | 23:11 |
| * perlDreamer is plotting to take over the world | 23:11 | |
| @preaction | so, standard sunday afternoon then? | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | pretty much | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | you? | 23:11 |
| @preaction | waging a war against the forces of influenza | 23:12 |
| @preaction | i'm using unfair tactics: dayquil, nyquil, and vitamin supplements | 23:12 |
| @preaction | but she's not going down without salting the earth after her... | 23:13 |
| +perlDreamer | nasty | 23:13 |
| +perlDreamer | Kathy's been fighting off an enterovirus for the last week and a half | 23:13 |
| @preaction | in other news, IE9 supports SVG, yay! | 23:13 |
| +perlDreamer | 'bout time, losers | 23:13 |
| @preaction | i know right? and they don't say nothings about HTML5 or CSS3 modules | 23:14 |
| +perlDreamer | you can bet that IE9 will not support SVG | 23:15 |
| +perlDreamer | it will support SVT(TM) | 23:15 |
| @preaction | but SVT will be backwards-compatible with SVG | 23:15 |
| +perlDreamer | my optimism is low today | 23:21 |
| Getty | you guys know chatroulette? | 23:41 |
| Getty | its really impressive how one little idea makes a bang of new ideas that you can do with that concept... its always amazing | 23:42 |
| +perlDreamer | never heard of chatroulette | 23:43 |
| Getty | its random webcam chatting | 23:45 |
| Getty | people make hilarious fun out of that, like that one, giving a concert for random people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfamTmY5REw&feature=player_embedded | 23:45 |
| --- Day changed Mon Mar 29 2010 | ||
| +perlDreamer | preaction: it's good to be an international behemoth that can ignore standards... | 00:37 |
| @preaction | isn't it? | 00:38 |
| @preaction | it's been almost two weeks. i assume they are not going to "fix" it | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | no, not likely at all | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | but I wonder if anyone reported a bug about it? | 00:49 |
| @preaction | in webgui? probably not yet | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | no, I mean in PayPal | 00:50 |
| @preaction | read the thread, people who are reporting bugs are being told that their software is out of date and sending nasty letters to the software developers who have no idea of what's going on | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | ugh | 00:51 |
| @preaction | it is clever though, the users have no idea that nobody was notified. just tell them "the software is using an outdated method of connecting that never should have been used" and they'll never believe that you were doing it in a standards-acceptable way | 00:54 |
| +perlDreamer | read down to page 7 | 01:39 |
| +perlDreamer | it sounds like they are trying to come up with a workaround, but don't have an ETA | 01:39 |
| * perlDreamer suspects they need more testing | 01:40 | |
| +perlDreamer | not accepting &'s anymore is a pretty basic change | 01:40 |
| +perlDreamer | of course, we only emit ;'s now | 01:40 |
| @preaction | a workaround for what? they should be rolling back the changes | 01:40 |
| @preaction | and not accepting & is breaking every web standard | 01:40 |
| +perlDreamer | then why do we use ;'s ? | 01:41 |
| @preaction | because the standard says [&;] and & doesn't require escaping inside HTML (&) | 01:42 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 01:42 |
| +perlDreamer | you know that feeling you get when you're writing code, that something just isn't right somewhere? | 01:43 |
| @preaction | that's what i feel all the time, yes | 01:43 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think today's effort to take over the world will be successful | 01:44 |
| @preaction | there's always tomorrow night, Brain | 01:45 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, but what does that have to do with Rita Hayworth's brand of dental floss? | 01:45 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Graham Knop master * r445486e / (4 files in 4 dirs): added: Sort Items switch to Syndicated Content asset - http://bit.ly/bfm7nk | 02:13 |
| @Haarg | preaction, have a minute? | 02:19 |
| @preaction | sorta kinda, dealing with flu right now, but go ahead | 02:20 |
| @Haarg | do you see any problem with adding a setting for another group to edit users that would be able to edit all non-admin users, and be able to add users to all non-admin groups | 02:21 |
| @Haarg | where admin in this case means the group to edit that we currently have | 02:22 |
| @preaction | in addition to the former "Secondary Admin" group? | 02:22 |
| @Haarg | yeah | 02:22 |
| @preaction | or instead of? because i really hate the weird divisions that Secondary Admin group has | 02:22 |
| @Haarg | well, secondary admins can only add users to groups they are a member of | 02:23 |
| @preaction | i don't see a real problem, no, but it does just cement my belief that we need more fine-grained control over permissions | 02:23 |
| @preaction | so yeah, sounds good. go ahead | 02:23 |
| @Haarg | i'll have to see if i can get some tests written for this. operation testing is ugly. | 02:23 |
| @Haarg | it's already written for a client i just wanted to make sure it would be acceptable | 02:24 |
| @preaction | you could refactor "getGroupsToAdd" and "getGroupsToRemove" methods and make sure they return the right groups | 02:24 |
| @preaction | but yes, rather ugly | 02:24 |
| @Haarg | i did clean that up a little already but it's still nasty | 02:25 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Graham Knop usereditgroup * r445486e / (4 files in 4 dirs): added: Sort Items switch to Syndicated Content asset - http://bit.ly/bfm7nk | 02:25 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Graham Knop usereditgroup * r4ee656b / (7 files in 6 dirs): added: Group to Edit users setting - http://bit.ly/b1bOpj | 02:26 |
| @Haarg | i'll wait to stick it in core until i do a bit more cleanup and tests | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, that's a separate branch | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | my bad, dude | 02:26 |
| @Haarg | no, i stuck the sc change in master | 02:27 |
| @Haarg | and it does need tests. i have another branch sitting around that refactors the sc tests some, i should try to get that merged as well. | 02:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I've been working on a 1-page checkout for WebGUI, and my eyes are crossed | 02:28 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: is this something Frank has you doing? otherwise we're working on fixing the 6-step process too | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | no, it's a separate gig | 02:29 |
| +perlDreamer | hey, can I put mini-cd's into a slot loading cd on a laptop? | 02:46 |
| @preaction | uh... maybe? | 02:49 |
| @preaction | i would google to make sure, i remember hearing one major expensive component of the Wii was a dual-size DVD reader | 02:49 |
| +perlDreamer | turns out, no, you can't | 02:52 |
| +perlDreamer | especially if you have a MacOSX | 02:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll download the driver from Logitech, and then... | 02:52 |
| +perlDreamer | Be prepared for Lego Star Wars greatness! | 02:52 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: are we supposed to autogenerate every form in wg8, or only edit forms? | 02:58 |
| @preaction | you're not supposed to use WebGUI::Form::Controls by themselves if that's what you're asking | 03:06 |
| +perlDreamer | this would be illegal, anywhere: $var->{username} = WebGUI::Form::username($session, ...); | 03:08 |
| +perlDreamer | and it's counterpart $username = $session->form->get('username', 'username'); | 03:08 |
| @preaction | $session->form->get(...) still fine (you may not be using WebGUI to send the form. but WebGUI::Form::username not fine | 03:10 |
| @preaction | and WebGUI::Form::Username->new() also not fine | 03:11 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 03:11 |
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| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rff0821d / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix typos in some calendar help. Fixes bug #11493 - http://bit.ly/aRBI7G | 08:21 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r400d94e / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix typos in some calendar help. Fixes bug #11493 - http://bit.ly/cE8JQW | 08:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | good morning, wonderful WebGUI folk! | 17:24 |
| +perlDreamer | today is a very good day | 17:24 |
| kimd | Good morning, perlDreamer! I am glad you enjoy the day. | 17:35 |
| +perlDreamer | the children are going to school today, which means peace and quiet in the house | 17:35 |
| kimd | How pleasant. I am on my own myself and finally able to do some fun work this afternoon. | 17:36 |
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| +perlDreamer | kimd, are you starting your new job soon? | 17:42 |
| kimd | Tuesday next week. Would that be soon? | 17:42 |
| +perlDreamer | that's pretty soon | 17:43 |
| kimd | It's ok. I have had a week of vacation already. | 17:43 |
| * perlDreamer will be back soon. I have to drop the kids off at school | 17:46 | |
| +perlDreamer | all right | 18:01 |
| +perlDreamer | time to hack! | 18:01 |
| kimd | Good hacking! | 18:03 |
| * bartjol takes cover | 18:05 | |
| +perlDreamer | today's hacking will involve the Gallery | 18:05 |
| -!- patspam1 [~patspam@ool-182e18a7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #webgui | 18:05 | |
| +perlDreamer | which has about 5 bugs posted against it | 18:05 |
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| kimd | Cool! Don't insert new ones. | 18:07 |
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| kimd | preaction, were you able to find my second commit? | 18:09 |
| kimd | I noticed, my patch didn't make it into 7.9.1. | 18:10 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r14b5897 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm): RSS links from Gallery need to include sitename. Fixes bug #11496 - http://bit.ly/9E4Phz | 18:25 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r0073826 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm): RSS links from Gallery need to include sitename. Fixes bug #11496 - http://bit.ly/donnRO | 18:25 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 18:28 |
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| kimd | preaction, are you online now? Or is that just your computer being left on? | 18:35 |
| @tavisto | preaction is sick, but yes he normally is logged into IRC even when he's not present at his computer | 18:36 |
| +perlDreamer | kimd, he has a server with a persistent client | 18:36 |
| +perlDreamer | then he pings it every so often | 18:36 |
| kimd | I see. But what's the purpose? Does he want to log everything? | 18:36 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 18:37 |
| @tavisto | he is an IRC nerd | 18:37 |
| @tavisto | hehe j | 18:37 |
| @tavisto | k | 18:37 |
| +perlDreamer | the xdanger bot used to log everything, but it has become spotty | 18:37 |
| kimd | spotty? | 18:37 |
| +perlDreamer | sometimes on, sometimes off | 18:37 |
| kimd | I understand. No one submitted a bug report? | 18:37 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not submittable | 18:38 |
| +perlDreamer | it's done by a volunteer from east europe | 18:38 |
| kimd | Oh. | 18:38 |
| @tavisto | perlDreamer, who owns xdanger | 18:45 |
| +perlDreamer | not sure of his full name | 18:45 |
| @tavisto | and when is xdreamer being released | 18:45 |
| +perlDreamer | Jukka... | 18:45 |
| @tavisto | ah okay | 18:45 |
| +perlDreamer | the fact that he's logged our channel for so long is very generous | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | just wish it was more consistent | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | instead of xdreamer, it will be called tavistox | 18:46 |
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| +bartjol | mmm, that sounds toxic | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | could be a good name for a strong beer | 18:54 |
| kimd | Sorry for interrupting. But how can I check for the first entry in a loop? | 18:56 |
| kimd | Was it something like <tmpl_if FIRST> ? | 18:57 |
| +bartjol | I've some Romanian booze, | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | __FIRST__ | 18:57 |
| kimd | Ah, cool! | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | perldoc HTML::Template will tell all | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | __FIRST__, __LAST__, __EVEN__, __ODD__ | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | that's all of them, I think | 18:57 |
| @tavisto | yikes. a friend just sent me a link to the story about the bombing in Moscow.. The general news pictures are GRAPHIC | 18:57 |
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| +bartjol | ow, perlDreamer, more pictures: http://www.bartjol.nl/home/fotoalbums/fortos/data/klus2010-02-28 | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm such a slacker, I still owe you pictures | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | dude! You have hair! | 19:33 |
| +bartjol | yeah, I only make those pictures to make you feel guilty | 19:33 |
| +bartjol | yeah, it grows on me | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | electrical work this weekend? | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | I see lots of wire nuts | 19:34 |
| +bartjol | well, that should be coming soon | 19:34 |
| +bartjol | and after that, a floor for my storage space | 19:35 |
| +bartjol | (the place where you se me in the pictures) | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | the new microwave made it past the 4 day mark, so we're quite happy with it | 19:36 |
| +bartjol | most critical phase for microwaves :) | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | at my house it is ;) | 19:38 |
| +bartjol | you have an energy sink in your house, a black hole for microwaves, you might say | 19:39 |
| +bartjol | feeding time | 19:42 |
| -!- bartjol [~bartjol@kantoor.procolix.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 19:42 | |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdab004c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Form/RadioList.pm): Let RadioLists take array refs for default values. Fixes bug #11497. - http://bit.ly/dxTPvg | 20:08 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * raf71b50 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Form/RadioList.pm): Let RadioLists take array refs for default values. Fixes bug #11497. - http://bit.ly/cQ1Zt0 | 20:09 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Graham Knop improved-asset-state * r6cfa7c3 / (5 files in 3 dirs): working on improving asset creation - http://bit.ly/bwM9BI | 20:14 |
| @preaction | kimd: it made it into 7.9.2, and i adjusted everything accordingly | 20:23 |
| kimd | Cool! Thank you very much. | 20:23 |
| kimd | preaction, still interested in the Schriesheim quarry climbing photos? | 20:35 |
| kimd | Ah no, I meant perlDreamer. | 20:35 |
| kimd | Check http://www.klettern-md.de/home/geschichten/bunte-bilder/schriesheimer-steinbruch | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks! | 20:36 |
| kimd | Try the slideshow feature ("Diashow"). It's very nice. | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I didn't see the festung in the pictures from the floor of the quarry, is it on the other side of the ridge? | 20:44 |
| kimd | No. But it is much lower and more to the right. | 20:47 |
| kimd | It's a 20 minutes walk to the quarry. | 20:47 |
| -!- danny_mk is now known as danny_mk_IsAway | 21:22 | |
| -!- danny_mk_IsAway is now known as danny_mk | 21:31 | |
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| * perlDreamer goes running, and ponders that woeful status of international banking and monetary transfers | 21:58 | |
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| * perlDreamer comes back a wet, wretched mess | 23:36 | |
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| --- Day changed Tue Mar 30 2010 | ||
| kimd | perlDreamer, still fixing the gallery? | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | no, off on some customer support issues | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | it may have to wait until later tonight, perhaps tomorrow | 00:07 |
| kimd | I think I have another bug. | 00:07 |
| kimd | When adding zip archives, the owner is always Admin. | 00:07 |
| kimd | Has that one been reported before? | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't believe so | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | Please file it | 00:08 |
| kimd | Ok, I am going to create a ticket. Thanks. | 00:08 |
| +perlDreamer | or, better yet, fix it :) | 00:08 |
| kimd | One thing after the other. | 00:12 |
| kimd | I can put it on my list. But I need to create the ticket anyhow. | 00:13 |
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| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r4ee08b1 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bad template, macro code in Gallery File view template. Fixes bug #11492. - http://bit.ly/dfKOyC | 05:51 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb538884 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bad template, macro code in Gallery File view template. Fixes bug #11492. - http://bit.ly/9q7bkR | 05:54 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5b35b8f / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix package imported from 7.8 for GalleryFile view template. Fixes bug #11492 - http://bit.ly/9dG63d | 05:54 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r713baf0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix owner privileges on photos created via uploading an archive. Fixes bug #11503 - http://bit.ly/aPoK2I | 06:44 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r03eeefe / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix owner privileges on photos created via uploading an archive. Fixes bug #11503 - http://bit.ly/aSMaw9 | 06:44 |
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| carogray | good morning | 13:58 |
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| kimd | Hey bartjol, late afternoon start? | 15:50 |
| +bartjol | ow, just forgot to join the channel | 15:50 |
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| doc777 | Hello friends. Is there a way to set the default template using the wre when a new site is created? | 17:32 |
| +bartjol | I suppose if you use the site setup tool, that might be doen automatically | 17:35 |
| doc777 | Aye, but if you click don't then it sets it to webgui 7? That is what I would like to set. | 17:37 |
| +bartjol | mmm, not sure what template is used | 17:39 |
| doc777 | If you choose to not use the site builder a complete webgui site is put into place, with ads, flash images... the works ;o) It is pretty but all this has to be removed each time a site is created. Was just looking for a way to swap that out with a minimal customized template. | 17:41 |
| +bartjol | aah | 17:43 |
| doc777 | Thinking in terms of a school with student sites. Repeating it 100 times. :o) | 17:44 |
| +bartjol | I believe this in the default db | 17:44 |
| doc777 | hrm... sounds obscure | 17:45 |
| +bartjol | yeah | 17:45 |
| doc777 | But, nevertheless, If I can find the location I can import a minimal template and wala :o) | 17:47 |
| +bartjol | yeah, that safes a lot of work | 17:48 |
| +bartjol | I believe that db file is create.sql | 17:48 |
| doc777 | Is the default template pulled from WebGui or in the wre? | 17:48 |
| +bartjol | /data/WebGUI/docs/create.sql | 17:48 |
| +bartjol | so it is webgui | 17:49 |
| +bartjol | just a file | 17:49 |
| doc777 | Ah, yea, that is what I was looking at. Thank you so much for your help bartjol :o) | 17:49 |
| +bartjol | it's all in a days work for bicycle repair man | 17:50 |
| doc777 | Well, it did not seem to work. It still created the Red / Black webgui site though I changed out the create.sql with a custom export. | 17:58 |
| doc777 | Wonder if it is the /data/WebGui/www/uploads folder as well as the db? | 18:00 |
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| +bartjol | doc777: I believe the uploads folder is site specific | 18:06 |
| doc777 | In theory, if I have a minimal site, and copy the DB and domain folder over the db and domain folder of the newly created site, then the new site should look like the old site. :o) | 18:08 |
| doc777 | But accomplishing this at creation time would be ideal... and even smart. | 18:08 |
| +bartjol | yeah | 18:09 |
| +bartjol | mare, tabee | 18:15 |
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| clifmo | hello, just discovered webgui yesterday and am evaluating the virtual appliance | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | don't judge us too harshly by that, it hasn't been updated with a recent version of WebGUI for a while | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | the demo sites (demo.webgui.org, and beta.webgui.org) are also good, even though they're limited to 24 hours | 19:08 |
| clifmo | I noticed it was a bit outdated, still intriguing though and a good way to get my feet wet before sitting in your webinar | 19:09 |
| clifmo | I represent a municipal govt currently using a proprietary CMS thats looking for open source alternatives | 19:13 |
| +perlDreamer | lots of people in government use WebGUI | 19:14 |
| +perlDreamer | it scales well | 19:14 |
| * perlDreamer heads off to the gym | 19:16 | |
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| +perlDreamer | hey, preaction. How are you doing? | 20:22 |
| @preaction | still down | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I got you covered today, so take it easy | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | do something light and relaxing, like rewriting the cache plugin or something | 20:24 |
| @preaction | riiiiiight | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | :D | 20:25 |
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| doc777 | Question: When using the wre console to add a new site, skip the site builder, and you have a default red, black and white webgui site. Can this "default" template be changed to something else? I cannot find where it is being pulled from. | 22:03 |
| +perlDreamer | doc777, that's the style template | 22:04 |
| +perlDreamer | you can add others, and change them as you wish | 22:04 |
| +perlDreamer | use the Edit Branch feature to change all the assets at once | 22:04 |
| @preaction | it's set in the create.sql, you can substitute your own create.sql, but you'd have to update it for each upgrade | 22:05 |
| doc777 | Think of a school with 100 student sites. Each site has to be changed and all the flash pictures and such removed each time. | 22:05 |
| doc777 | I changed the /data/WebGui/docs/create.sql and it still gave me the red and black site. unless it was cached somehow.... | 22:06 |
| @preaction | the flash pictures and stuff are part of the www/uploads folder (the default uploads that get copied) | 22:06 |
| doc777 | Well I guess what I would like to accomplish is this: We set up a bare minimalistic template. And would like that to be the default when a new site is created. | 22:07 |
| doc777 | So if I replace the /data/Webgui/www/uploads and the default create.sql this should do it? | 22:08 |
| @preaction | try it and see | 22:09 |
| doc777 | Will do :o) | 22:09 |
| doc777 | I saw the posts on adding templates into the site builder. That looks great! | 22:10 |
| doc777 | Replacing create.sql and the uploads folder did the trick. Thanks for all the help :o) | 22:28 |
| doc777 | I have noticed that when I add a site the DB user is created with % hosts. I just need local hosts. Can this be changed? | 22:43 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg: have you seen this before -> [Tue Mar 30 12:59:12 2010] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] Label not found for "last WEBGUI_FATAL" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/ErrorHandler.pm line 252.\n | 23:05 |
| @Haarg | not in a web request | 23:08 |
| +perlDreamer | you can get it by turning off mysql and making a request | 23:09 |
| +perlDreamer | it interferes with the normal reporting for a bad mysql connection | 23:09 |
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| --- Day changed Wed Mar 31 2010 | ||
| +perlDreamer | Haarg: http://gist.github.com/349588 | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | It seems as though you can't last LABEL backwards through an eval | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | and since all handlers are wrapped with evals, it doesn't work | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | Haven't thought about how to test this in the normal dying case yet | 00:00 |
| * perlDreamer cowardly runs off to pick up kids from school | 00:01 | |
| @Haarg | is this for webgui 8 | 00:01 |
| @Haarg | ? | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | nope, it's for a webgui 7 bugfix | 00:02 |
| @Haarg | i don't think we can change that | 00:07 |
| @Haarg | the last WEBGUI_FATAL thing is horrible but there is no way to do it well | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | if fatal dies, and it's caught by any of the evals in either URL/Content, or WebGUI.pm, I don't see the difference | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | and the last isn't working in all cases | 00:41 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r52162f6 / lib/WebGUI/Form/Slider.pm : fix typos in error message - http://bit.ly/c2VyG4 | 00:43 |
| @Haarg | because it gets caught elsewhere before it gets to the content handlers | 00:47 |
| @Haarg | what is a case where the last isn't working? | 00:47 |
| +perlDreamer | startup apache, but turn off mysql | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | make a page request | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | the error I posted earlier about no label named WEBGUI_FATAL will be in the apache error log | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | and you'll get a standard 500 error page | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | instead of our customized error page for no database connection, from ErrorHandler->fatal | 00:50 |
| @Haarg | seems like the session open needs to be inside the WEBGUI_FATAL block | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the funny thing | 00:52 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not session open that seems to be causing the problem | 00:53 |
| +perlDreamer | because it will iterate through the URL handlers | 00:53 |
| +perlDreamer | even though the stack trace says otherwise | 00:53 |
| @Haarg | how are you seeing it iterate through the url handlers? | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I put a warn statement inside the URL handler loop that prints out each handler's name as it tries to run | 00:57 |
| @Haarg | content is the last handler though | 00:57 |
| @Haarg | so it would go through the others first before getting the fatal error | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | so you think it would be better to put a dummy block around session->open and the foreach? | 00:58 |
| @Haarg | yes | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | like this: http://gist.github.com/349650 | 01:05 |
| @Haarg | yeah | 01:06 |
| @Haarg | what does that eval around the db connect do? | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | I suspected that it was die'ing | 01:07 |
| @Haarg | fatal really is broken by design, but what are you going to do | 01:08 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be nice if it threw a particular kind of exception, which would only be handled up at the top | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | anyone that catches that exception should rethrow it | 01:10 |
| @Haarg | that's how all exceptions should be handled | 01:11 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3b3347c / (3 files in 3 dirs): Restore ErrorHandler->fatal handling of no DB connection. Fixes bug #11494. - http://bit.ly/aMQ6fr | 01:12 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * ra3e1176 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Restore ErrorHandler->fatal handling of no DB connection. Fixes bug #11494. - http://bit.ly/c3RGjJ | 01:12 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r116f159 / lib/WebGUI/Form/Slider.pm : fix typos in error message - http://bit.ly/c0UynU | 01:13 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks for your help, Haarg | 01:15 |
| +perlDreamer | where help == doing almost all the work except for writing the code | 01:15 |
| @Haarg | well, what you wanted to do would have made more sense, if it was possible for fatal to make sense | 01:21 |
| +perlDreamer | now, let's see if I can take elnino's latest bug and nuke demo.webgui.org with it | 01:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | patspam: does the Survey leak? | 05:16 |
| +patspam | leak what? | 05:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I added a question | 05:16 |
| +perlDreamer | then deleted it | 05:16 |
| +perlDreamer | cleared server side and client side caches | 05:16 |
| +perlDreamer | and when I take the survey, it still shows that question | 05:16 |
| +patspam | it's revision controlled | 05:17 |
| +patspam | so if you started a response | 05:17 |
| +patspam | you'll still see the question | 05:17 |
| +patspam | same goes for structure changes | 05:17 |
| +patspam | you won't see them until the next fresh response | 05:17 |
| +perlDreamer | that makes tons of sense | 05:18 |
| +patspam | with the way it's currently written, things would go very bad (tm) if the structure changed during a response | 05:18 |
| +patspam | because sections/questions/answers do not have guids | 05:18 |
| +patspam | their Id is their order in the strucutre | 05:19 |
| +patspam | which really sucks | 05:19 |
| +perlDreamer | it's cheap and easy | 05:19 |
| +patspam | the revisioning thing catches people out all the time, because sometimes you don't even realise you've started a response | 05:19 |
| +perlDreamer | but fragile | 05:19 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, I was just displaying the first question | 05:20 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm learning more about the multi-slider allocate guy, and i think it can be saved | 05:20 |
| +patspam | it makes changing the structure of a big complex questionnaire rather painful | 05:20 |
| +patspam | well, actually it doesn't because it revisions everything | 05:20 |
| +patspam | but I don't like it | 05:20 |
| +patspam | I have a love-hate relationship with survey | 05:21 |
| +patspam | and would really love to throw away every line of existing code and rewrite it "properly" | 05:21 |
| +perlDreamer | WG8 FTW! | 05:22 |
| +patspam | exactly! | 05:22 |
| +perlDreamer | speaking of FTW, any news on the OSCON front? | 05:22 |
| +patspam | I was thinking if I can put aside a week or two, I might try to at least design Survey3, and discuss it with people at the WUC | 05:23 |
| +patspam | it would make for a rather bizarre talk | 05:23 |
| +patspam | my OSCON talks didn't get up | 05:24 |
| +patspam | no real surprise | 05:24 |
| +patspam | but that new Health track looks promising, I'm tempted to submit a talk for that | 05:24 |
| +perlDreamer | You should. Moodswings is a great example of leveraging OS | 05:24 |
| +patspam | yeah I probably have a better chance talking about health than I do talking about per | 05:24 |
| +patspam | l | 05:24 |
| +perlDreamer | piano lessons are ending, time to trek home | 05:25 |
| +perlDreamer | bbl8r | 05:25 |
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| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rb7ddc03 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/MatrixListing.pm : Don't build i18n object since it isn't needed. - http://bit.ly/aEwfmE | 06:54 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r765cfc0 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.8.16 release - http://bit.ly/btDVk3 | 07:10 |
| +perlDreamer | yay, new release is out | 08:11 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r50b8a0e / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.17 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/97svBp | 08:11 |
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| kimd | Morning bartjol! | 14:27 |
| kimd | And everyone else as well, of course. | 14:27 |
| +bartjol | morning kimd | 14:28 |
| +bartjol | I really have the tendency to call you bernd | 14:28 |
| kimd | That's ok. But I won't get an alert. | 14:29 |
| kimd | Maybe, I should reconfigure my client? | 14:29 |
| kimd | It must have an option for keyword highlighting. | 14:29 |
| * bartjol is having an awstats day | 14:30 | |
| kimd | Ok, done. Bartjol, can you try writing to bernd? | 14:30 |
| +bartjol | bernd | 14:30 |
| kimd | Cool! It works. | 14:30 |
| +bartjol | tabbing doesn't work | 14:30 |
| kimd | Call me bernd then. | 14:30 |
| kimd | Or Bernd, to be precise. | 14:30 |
| +bartjol | I'm very much obliged | 14:30 |
| +bartjol | ah capital crazy Germans :P | 14:31 |
| kimd | Something else: Is the YUI code editor also slow in your browser? | 14:33 |
| kimd | I am trying to write some JS code and it's a pain. | 14:34 |
| +bartjol | the normal code editor? Let me have a look | 14:34 |
| kimd | Open a larger template or snippet and try to modify something. | 14:35 |
| +bartjol | oh, yeah I've encountered some slugginess in that | 14:35 |
| +bartjol | the idea is nice, but it doesn't work ideally | 14:36 |
| kimd | Ok. So it's not my browser or anything system related. | 14:36 |
| kimd | I believe it used to be more responsive in the past. | 14:36 |
| +bartjol | and the invisibilty of my cursor also makes it .... exciting? | 14:37 |
| kimd | Need to talk to preaction. I believe he hacked the code editor quite a bit due to compatibility problems. | 14:37 |
| kimd | Random templates? | 14:37 |
| kimd | Just change something and have a look at the results. | 14:37 |
| kimd | Do this 1,000,000 times and remove the grab. | 14:38 |
| kimd | We will call this evolutionary template development. | 14:38 |
| +bartjol | cool | 14:41 |
| +bartjol | quite some work | 14:41 |
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| aronchi | Hi | 15:04 |
| aronchi | I have set a user defined in my cs to be a date | 15:05 |
| aronchi | with ^FormRender(Date,"{ name => 'userDefined2', value => '[% userDefined2 %]' }"); | 15:05 |
| aronchi | and I want to format it in CS list, but the Date macro takes only epoch | 15:05 |
| aronchi | is it possible? | 15:06 |
| kimd | aronchi, do you mean a user defined field? | 15:07 |
| aronchi | yes | 15:07 |
| aronchi | it's stored correctly | 15:07 |
| aronchi | but in ISO format | 15:07 |
| aronchi | I need epoch to pass it to Date Macro | 15:07 |
| kimd | And you want to reformat for display? | 15:07 |
| aronchi | yes | 15:07 |
| aronchi | I'm using template toolkit | 15:08 |
| kimd | Hm. Let me check the data macro briefly. | 15:08 |
| kimd | Oh. I don't have any experience with that. | 15:08 |
| aronchi | it's the same, if I find a way | 15:08 |
| aronchi | I can translate it to TT | 15:09 |
| kimd | You are right about the date macro. But why not modify it? | 15:09 |
| aronchi | the date macro? | 15:09 |
| kimd | You could extend it to accept any kind of date string. | 15:09 |
| kimd | Yes. | 15:09 |
| kimd | It should not be too difficult. | 15:10 |
| kimd | That might even be a feature for the core. | 15:10 |
| kimd | Add a third argument specifying the type of input date. | 15:10 |
| kimd | And extend the code accordingly. | 15:11 |
| kimd | Another possibility would be to use JS on the client side?! | 15:11 |
| +bartjol | yeah, only the timezones are on obstruction | 15:12 |
| +bartjol | do you take system or user | 15:12 |
| +bartjol | that is the question | 15:12 |
| aronchi | the system | 15:13 |
| +bartjol | You might want to look at the Form code for the input then, I suppose that has date to epoch conversion somewhere | 15:14 |
| +bartjol | or Date::Time | 15:14 |
| +bartjol | Dorry DateTime | 15:15 |
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| kimd | git experts, how can I create a new branch in my fork of webgui on github? | 17:12 |
| kimd | Haarg, do you know? | 17:12 |
| @Haarg | you create a local branch, then push it to github | 17:13 |
| @Haarg | so git checkout -b my-new-branch | 17:13 |
| @Haarg | git push remote-name my-new-branch | 17:13 |
| @Haarg | using whatever you have the remote named for your github fork | 17:14 |
| kimd | Cool! That seems to work. | 17:14 |
| kimd | And it's there indeed. | 17:14 |
| kimd | Thank you! | 17:14 |
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| SquOnk | Greetings | 18:28 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Hey there. There's a stray .DS_Store file in lib/WebGUI/i18n/Dutch | 18:28 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks for the heads up, SquOnk | 18:28 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: You're welcome | 18:28 |
| +patspam | morning team | 18:28 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: BTW, 7.8 already made it into Debian Squeeze, so we'll have an official Debian WebGUI package for the next Debian Stable release. | 18:29 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: It took a year longer than expected, but we're there :-) | 18:29 |
| +patspam | SquOnk++ | 18:29 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk: good news | 18:29 |
| * SquOnk is listening to: Gershwin - Greatest Hits - Rhapsody in Blue - (0:02/16:20) | 18:29 | |
| +patspam | ha meanwhile padre is having issues with debian packing, apparently their dev cycle is too fast | 18:30 |
| SquOnk | Sorry! Wrong key, wrong window :-) | 18:30 |
| +bartjol | nice info though :P | 18:30 |
| SquOnk | patspam: Yep. Padre is a moving target... more or less what happened to Catalyst a couple of years ago. | 18:30 |
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| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Are you going to clean up the .tar.gz right away or wait for 7.8.17 to do it? | 18:31 |
| * perlDreamer will wait | 18:31 | |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Good. | 18:31 |
| +perlDreamer | republishing the .tar.gz isn't an option | 18:31 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: I assumed that. I'll frob the debian/rules so the .DS_Store file doesn't make it | 18:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Actually, on installed sites it will need to be manually cleaned up, so just fixing the .tar.gz won't work | 18:32 |
| +perlDreamer | could you file a bug for that, please? | 18:32 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Sure | 18:32 |
| SquOnk | Man, I love this piece... | 18:33 |
| SquOnk | What would be THE programmer's reference one needs to have to understand WebGUI internals? | 18:35 |
| SquOnk | We're hiring a couple of Perl developers to work out some custom Assets for a local bank | 18:35 |
| SquOnk | m.banesco.net | 18:36 |
| +perlDreamer | For Assets, macros, workflows and pluggable points, the WebGUI Developers guide | 18:36 |
| SquOnk | (running WebGUI for their Mobile Banking Application :) | 18:36 |
| +perlDreamer | however, it doesn't cover the whole API | 18:36 |
| +perlDreamer | just not enough room for it | 18:36 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: I see. Well, I'll spend some karma on it :-) | 18:36 |
| +perlDreamer | each release does have a full API guide in perldoc | 18:36 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: How about writing custom Auth modules? | 18:37 |
| +perlDreamer | black magic, see existing code and pray heavily | 18:37 |
| SquOnk | perlDreamer: Oh, it's not that bad... been there, done that, got a t-shirt | 18:38 |
| +bartjol | ah thunderbird starts to work normal again | 18:44 |
| +bartjol | ah, that DS_Store file, might that be a reason I get messages that English.Dutch.pm is not installed> | 18:54 |
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| clifmo | is WebGUI a good choice for a severely under-staffed organization? ie im the sole developer | 18:58 |
| +bartjol | clifmo: it depends what you want to do | 19:01 |
| SquOnk | Ok, Spanish is back at 100% | 19:02 |
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| clifmo | bartjol: going to start with just an intranet website, but down the road hosting ~10 production websites | 19:07 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, did you see the pictures on Facebook? | 19:08 |
| +bartjol | WebGUI might be an idea, as long as you don't have to do all front and backend | 19:08 |
| +bartjol | kathy's? | 19:08 |
| +bartjol | no | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | clifmo, at one church, we taught a 70-year old bible teacher how to edit content | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol: yes | 19:08 |
| +bartjol | that has come oout nicely | 19:09 |
| +bartjol | I miss the big pile of old microwaves though :) | 19:10 |
| +bartjol | but it is time now | 19:10 |
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| clifmo | perlDreamer, i will have a few octogenerians to teach | 19:10 |
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| CIA-104 | WebGUI: translation * r12464 /translations/Spanish/ (134 files in 2 dirs): Updating Spanish on translation server | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | clifmo, PlainBlack does have an awesome trainer if you need help with that | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | and the reference books are well written | 19:12 |
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| clifmo | Im doing a webinar soon, our organization is 100% invested in MS right now, id be making myself the only linux admin | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | clifmo, is this for a website, or an intranet? | 19:19 |
| +perlDreamer | and you don't have to be a linux sysadmin to edit content in WebGUi | 19:19 |
| +perlDreamer | it's pretty WYSIWIG | 19:19 |
| +perlDreamer | if this is for a website, you might want to consider having someone else do the hosting for you | 19:19 |
| +perlDreamer | there are several hosters available, there's a list on webgui.org | 19:20 |
| clifmo | we'll be hosting | 19:20 |
| clifmo | it'll be for municipal websites | 19:21 |
| clifmo | im not so concerned for the content editors, they'll be fine :P its my hide im worried about | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | be sure to ask the person doing the webinar, but I think Plain Black hosts municipal websites for other municipalities | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | and the hosters also sell support options if you get stuck | 19:25 |
| clifmo | definitely worth inquiring, thanks for the tips... been a while since i used Perl | 19:29 |
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| CIA-104 | webgui: Graham Knop master * r9dc6c29 / (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: Viewing a Gallery File with non-ASCII keywords crashes - http://bit.ly/9m9JMy | 19:50 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * r2a0c4cf / (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: Viewing a Gallery File with non-ASCII keywords crashes - http://bit.ly/aR6Y34 | 19:59 |
| kimd | perlDreamer, how is life? | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | right now, too busy | 20:03 |
| +perlDreamer | looking forward to a long, punishing run later today | 20:03 |
| kimd | You became a long distance runner? | 20:04 |
| kimd | Or are you continuously decreasing your running speed? | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | every year, my running partner and I vary between 2 miles and 6 miles in runs | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | training up to a 10K in August/September | 20:04 |
| kimd | You plan to win or just participate? | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | kimd, I'm 40 years old and 35 pounds overweight. I just run for the sheer enjoyment of it | 20:05 |
| kimd | How much is that in percent based on the ideal weight? | 20:06 |
| +perlDreamer | 30% | 20:06 |
| kimd | Ooh, you should start running immediately :-P | 20:07 |
| * perlDreamer should stop eating so much :D | 20:07 | |
| kimd | That's another approach. | 20:07 |
| kimd | Well, I am done with my WebGUI work for today. | 20:08 |
| kimd | Enjoy yours! Bye everyone. | 20:08 |
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| CIA-104 | webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.8 * r6945391 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/Spectre/Workflow.pm): fix 11507 Spectre Reports wrong workflow count - http://bit.ly/afos5q | 20:31 |
| CIA-104 | webgui: Doug Bell master * rdefc821 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/Spectre/Workflow.pm): fix 11507 Spectre Reports wrong workflow count - http://bit.ly/bNq2AG | 20:32 |
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| @preaction | should we put "Change URL and Content handlers to be called as class methods instead of subs" in our todo list while we're breaking APIs? | 20:47 |
| ckotil | can you easily exclude a single asset from search results? its a .swf file | 20:48 |
| @preaction | not that i know of | 20:49 |
| ckotil | k | 20:49 |
| @preaction | you could delete its item from the index | 20:49 |
| @preaction | but that'd have to be done each time the file was edited | 20:49 |
| ckotil | yeah, might have to. | 20:49 |
| ckotil | right. | 20:49 |
| +perlDreamer | you could set it up as a custom workflow that runs every so often | 20:56 |
| +perlDreamer | delete from assetIndex where assetId="..."; | 20:58 |
| @tavisto | Hi Clifmo, this is Tavis. I just sent your webinar info for tomorrow | 21:04 |
| @preaction | would you guys kill me if i put a template in a __DATA__ block and released it that way? | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | you'll read from the handle, and create it on the fly? | 21:19 |
| @preaction | yes | 21:20 |
| @preaction | mainly because there is absolutely no reason to edit the Admin Console template, and I don't feel like putting it into the database (horrible to edit in there...) | 21:20 |
| @preaction | i'd really like a set of default templates that resided on the filesystem, but i can't have that yet | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | you don't think ISPs like SwiftySite would want to edit the template? | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the route the dashboard took, and look where it ended up | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | albeit, perhaps for more reasons than that | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | in sql, can you do an update where the WHERE clause depends on conditions on two tables, without doing a sub-query? | 21:30 |
| @preaction | not that i'm aware of | 21:31 |
| @tavisto | yeah preaction where is my WGFS! | 21:33 |
| @tavisto | I want it noooooooooooooow! | 21:33 |
| @preaction | tavisto: find me $100k and you can have it | 21:34 |
| @tavisto | *tavisto looks around* | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | there, behind the couch | 21:34 |
| @tavisto | ooooh! monopoly money counts... you didn't say 100k USD | 21:34 |
| @tavisto | Good eye pD | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | now, how do you feel about a mass publish of CMSMatrix threads and clean-up party? | 21:35 |
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| +patspam | $_++ for qw(aperion haarg) # AssetExportHtml is a joy to read | 23:44 |
| +patspam | ckotil: rather than using wgd export-branch, you could also use the in-website Export feature to export your site to a version controlled dir | 23:50 |
| +patspam | that would give a more meaningful version history in terms of what end users see | 23:50 |
| +patspam | but you'd lose the ability to re-import old versions | 23:51 |
| ckotil | patspam: ok | 23:56 |
| --- Log closed Thu Apr 01 00:00:55 2010 | ||
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