WebGUI irc logs from: 2010-03.log

--- Log opened Mon Mar 01 00:00:51 2010
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SDuensin_	Greetings.	16:31
+bartjol	morning	16:33
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SDuensin_	AH HA! Got rid of him!	16:38
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Diggy	hi, folks. hope at least 1 webgui dev is here	17:27
SDuensin	Probably more like a dozen.	17:27
Diggy	Q - are there any plans to produce an up-to-date webgui VM?	17:27
Diggy	a dozen! yikes	17:28
Diggy	perhaps a VM for the 7.8 series?	17:29
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SDuensin	Hey perlDreamer!	17:29
+perlDreamer	bartjol, you are excused from all current, future and past comments about LOI	17:29
SDuensin	Diggy has a good question...	17:29
+perlDreamer	Diggy, what's your question this morning?	17:30
SDuensin	Any chance of the VM being updated for 7.8?	17:30
Diggy	about plans for an updated webgui VM	17:30
Diggy	last vm was done in early '09, IIRC	17:30
bartjol	perlDreamer: so no more info needed, too bad...	17:30
+perlDreamer	the VM can be updated manually by downloading the current one and running the webgui updater	17:30
+perlDreamer	bartjol, what's the red thing?	17:31
bartjol	an expension barrel for the heating	17:31
Diggy	unfortunately, my attempts at updating it have failed	17:31
SDuensin	Diggy - Oh? How so?	17:31
+perlDreamer	how are you updating it, Diggy?	17:31
+perlDreamer	and what errors do you get?	17:31
Diggy	with the wre. it's been a while since i last tried	17:31
+perlDreamer	you can only update via the WRE if you stay up to date with it	17:32
Diggy	again, apologies, as it's been a while since i tried to upgrade	17:32
+perlDreamer	otherwise, you have to manually download and upgrade	17:32
+perlDreamer	it wouldn't hurt us to update that, though	17:33
SDuensin	You should be able to run the webguiupdate script and then the testEnvironment script.	17:33
+perlDreamer	SD, not really	17:33
SDuensin	No?	17:33
+perlDreamer	webguiupdate is not smart enough to stop at the right points	17:33
+perlDreamer	it downloads the latest and greatest and tries that	17:33
+perlDreamer	which will fail miserably	17:33
Diggy	i did use the script. IRC channel users helped me, but in the end, failure :-(	17:33
* SDuensin sighs		17:33
+perlDreamer	so, if you start at 7.6.32	17:33
+perlDreamer	you update to 7.6.35	17:33
+perlDreamer	then 7.7.33	17:34
+perlDreamer	then 7.8.13	17:34
SDuensin	Glad I had this little talk prior to going to 7.8.x. :-)	17:34
bartjol	ah, scott, you need some other talks?	17:34
+perlDreamer	I wonder if the wiki has that little gem of info	17:34
+perlDreamer	there is an open bug to fix that	17:34
SDuensin	bartjol, I need all the help I can get. :-D	17:35
Diggy	are you recommending that i try that sequence?	17:35
+perlDreamer	Diggy, sure	17:35
+perlDreamer	also, Diggy, would you please file a bug about updating the VM?	17:35
Diggy	ok. will try (as soon as time permits :-) ), and report back	17:36
+perlDreamer	that will raise it to the attention of the proper people	17:36
Diggy	sure, i'll file a bug report	17:36
Diggy	thanks, and ttfn	17:36
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SDuensin	There's too many interesting cool package formats out there. I want WebGUI in all of them for people!	17:37
SDuensin	VMware appliance, OpenVZ template, that application standard thing - not to mention the usual DEB, RPM, etc.	17:37
+perlDreamer	bartjol, in the -930 picture, what are all those pipes for?	17:42
+perlDreamer	doesn't a sink have hot, cold, and drain, and that's it?	17:42
bartjol	eeeh, i'll have a look	17:43
bartjol	and then make fun of you	17:44
* perlDreamer braces for public humiliation		17:44
bartjol	well, that's my heating thingy	17:44
+perlDreamer	so that's not the bottom of the sink	17:45
+perlDreamer	makes much more sense	17:45
bartjol	so it has to have piping for gas, cold water (in), warm water (out) heating in and out	17:45
bartjol	yeah	17:45
* perlDreamer will take the children to school, and ponder more		17:45
bartjol	955 is the sink	17:45
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+perlDreamer	bartjol: I knew that 955 was the sink, but 930 looks like it's from the same place, in the corner	17:57
bartjol	it is more just above 952	18:00
bartjol	or better maybe: http://www.bartjol.nl/home/fotoalbums/fortos/klus20091116/dsc00678	18:01
+perlDreamer	ah, yes	18:06
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+perlDreamer	we have one of those tankless water heaters, too	18:12
+perlDreamer	very efficient	18:12
SDuensin	Database design hurts my head.	18:15
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r587f080 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Subscribable aspect should propagate result of purge, instead of always returning false. Fixes bug #11446 - http://bit.ly/97WdkX	18:31
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb462ce0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Subscribable aspect should propagate result of purge, instead of always returning false. Fixes bug #11446 - http://bit.ly/bSzWKC	18:31
+perlDreamer	preaction: ping	18:42
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+perlDreamer	patspam, you up for a dev level idea bouncing talk?	18:45
+patspam	shoot	18:45
+perlDreamer	it's the spectre bug	18:46
+perlDreamer	with the mail workflow	18:46
+patspam	got the number on hand?	18:46
+perlDreamer	two of them	18:46
+perlDreamer	this is the "latest" one: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11444	18:46
+perlDreamer	and here's the historical one: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/10189	18:47
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+patspam	yep, I've experienced that too	18:49
+perlDreamer	okay, so this is my theory	18:49
+perlDreamer	Spectre recognizes that it's time to run the cron job	18:49
+perlDreamer	and calls www_runCronJob in Operation/Cron	18:49
+perlDreamer	www_runCronJob builds an instance of the workflow	18:50
+perlDreamer	and tries to talk to spectre	18:50
+perlDreamer	but it can't	18:50
+perlDreamer	the instance is NEVER cleaned up	18:50
+perlDreamer	so it sits in the db, blocking all further invocations, since it's a singleton workflow	18:50
+perlDreamer	the core problem seems to be that the return value of $instance->start(1) is not checked	18:51
+patspam	I've never really trawled through the spectre code, but that sounds reasonable	18:52
+perlDreamer	I'll see if I can outfit a few sites with some test code, and then disable their spectre restart cron cobs	18:53
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+perlDreamer	if this is right, there's about 1 day of spectre relating hacking that needs to be done	19:00
+perlDreamer	since none of the spectre comm code returns a status	19:00
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+patspam	sorry, doing some bug triaging here too	19:03
+patspam	the kind where people report something, and then when you look everything appears perfectly fine	19:04
bartjol	but I thought Martin made spectre, how can there be errors?	19:04
+perlDreamer	I thought JT wrote spectre, and that Martin just named it	19:05
bartjol	mmm, that might be, explains a lot :)	19:05
+perlDreamer	;)	19:05
+perlDreamer	patspam, I hate those kinds of bugs	19:06
+perlDreamer	we had one of those today	19:06
+perlDreamer	with deleting a wiki	19:06
+perlDreamer	if you delete a wiki and purge it, it works fine	19:06
+perlDreamer	but try deleting a page containing a wiki, and it's not	19:06
bartjol	but it's laundry time, I am even looking forward to it	19:06
+patspam	fun	19:06
+perlDreamer	martien, kimd, faxioman have definitely joined elnino in the bug reporting elite	19:07
+perlDreamer	they are thoughtful, detailed, and patient	19:07
+patspam	yeah that's awesome	19:07
+patspam	I wish my clients were like that	19:07
bartjol	actually testing, instead of getting back a year later with a mention that "it is all broken"	19:08
bartjol	that'd be nice	19:08
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@Haarg	perlDreamer, the getCache asset method can't be merged into webgui 8 directly. i was thinking of replacing it with a getViewCacheKey method.	19:26
+perlDreamer	why can't it be merged?	19:27
+perlDreamer	also, I thought getCache was a session method	19:28
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc0d45e0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove workarounds in WeatherData. Fixes bug #11401. - http://bit.ly/drRnhH	19:58
@Haarg	it can't be merged because it returns a cache object with a specific key. but you don't construct a cache object per key anymore.	20:00
+perlDreamer	patspam: the TAP modules required by the Survey cannot be installed piecemeal, correct? You have to fully upgrade to Test::Harness 3.x	20:01
+perlDreamer	Haarg, it sounds like it can be removed, and replace by session->getCache	20:02
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* perlDreamer goes out for errands		20:34
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+perlDreamer	well, at least the guts of Asset->getCache could be removed.	21:40
@Haarg	getting rid of the duplicate code is a good idea, it's just that the cache api is going to be very different. which is why i was thinking getViewCacheKey.	21:42
@Haarg	although it would be better if the cache api was finalized	21:42
@Haarg	we could have $asset->computeViewCache(sub { }, $timeout)	21:43
@Haarg	or something along those lines	21:43
+perlDreamer	anyway we can abstract that out, and keep it insultated from this change, and future changes, will help	21:44
@Haarg	does computeViewCache sound like a good idea? or would there be a better name for it?	21:45
@Haarg	or does getViewCacheKey sound like a better approach?	21:46
+perlDreamer	if it's returning a key, it should have that in the name	21:46
+perlDreamer	so I vote for getViewCacheKey	21:46
@Haarg	well, computeViewCache would be returning the cache data	21:46
@Haarg	or calling the sub if there was no cache data	21:47
@Haarg	and storing the return from the sub in the cache	21:47
+perlDreamer	yes, but in some view methods getCache is used to grab a cache object to stuff data into it	21:48
+perlDreamer	not just access what might (or might not) be there	21:48
@Haarg	i'm not sure i follow. that is exactly the case i am talking about.	21:48
@Haarg	with computeViewCache, it would first try to get the cache data and return it if it was available	21:49
@Haarg	if it wasn't, it would call the sub that was passed in to generate the needed output, then store that in the cache and return it	21:49
+perlDreamer	ah, I missed the last part	21:49
+perlDreamer	and the method used to generate the needed output would not be $self->view, but $self->view minus the permission checks, cache code, etc.	21:50
@Haarg	yeah, basically	21:51
+perlDreamer	seems odd to push down one level like that. Almost like we could replace prepareView with that, or something	21:55
+perlDreamer	Haarg: how do I make a clone of the metaclass-roles branch to try and tinker with it?	22:02
@Haarg	do you have my repo as a remote?	22:02
+perlDreamer	yes	22:02
+perlDreamer	but this: git checkout -b metaclass-roles --track haarg/metaclass-roles	22:03
+perlDreamer	does this: fatal: git checkout: updating paths is incompatible with switching branches	22:03
@Haarg	what about just git checkout -t haarg/metaclass-roles	22:03
@Haarg	?	22:03
+perlDreamer	same thing	22:04
@Haarg	git --version	22:04
+perlDreamer	1.6.3.3	22:04
@Haarg	git remote update	22:05
+perlDreamer	updated, but the checkout still doesn't work	22:06
+perlDreamer	maybe I misconfigured the remote?	22:06
@Haarg	git branch -r \| grep haarg	22:06
+perlDreamer	haarg/bart-i18n	22:06
@Haarg	git remote haarg \| nopaste	22:07
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/318755	22:08
@Haarg	git fetch haarg	22:09
+perlDreamer	k	22:09
@Haarg	i'm really not sure why it isn't updating	22:09
+perlDreamer	I'll go running and see if maybe it's some github transient issue	22:10
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+perlDreamer	haarg, I figured it out	23:55
@Haarg	oh?	23:56
+perlDreamer	when I created the remote, I used the -t switch	23:56
+perlDreamer	it would only use the bart-i18n branch	23:56
+perlDreamer	so I dropped that remote and added a new one	23:56
@Haarg	ah	23:56
@Haarg	making an attempt at merging master into WebGUI8	23:57
+perlDreamer	good luck	23:58
--- Day changed Tue Mar 02 2010
+perlDreamer	mlri's server, server36	00:25
+perlDreamer	every config file has that in it	00:25
@preaction	perlDreamer: the ^StorageUrl(); macro can be given a storageId and will return a URL (for use in SQLReports and the like)	00:37
+perlDreamer	really?!	00:37
@preaction	yep	00:37
@preaction	it's even got some nice config options for various things	00:38
+perlDreamer	must be time for me to review all the macros again	00:38
+perlDreamer	what if there are multiple files in the storage location, though?	00:40
@preaction	it grabs the first one fsvo first	00:41
@preaction	perlbot fsvo	00:42
@preaction	perlbot fsvo is For Some Value Of	00:42
@preaction	perlbot botsnack	00:42
@preaction	perlbot fsvo	00:42
@preaction	... wtf	00:42
@preaction	perlbot, fsvo	00:42
perlbot	preaction: For Some Value Of	00:42
@preaction	ah	00:43
+perlDreamer	the first one "asciibetically", according to the POD ;)	00:44
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reea83d5 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix macro issues, missing FilePump, HASH entry. Fixes bug #11449. - http://bit.ly/9TSsZJ	01:02
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r9256928 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix macro issues, missing FilePump, HASH entry. Fixes bug #11449. - http://bit.ly/dmMdVC	01:04
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* perlDreamer has to go pick up the kids from school, back in 30		01:17
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+perlDreamer	Haarg: http://gist.github.com/318965	02:07
+perlDreamer	it's almost like we have different versions of Moose installed	02:09
+perlDreamer	those subs don't exist, and the options have different names	02:09
+perlDreamer	this one's cleaner, and has more option corrections http://gist.github.com/318976	02:21
+perlDreamer	I love the Moose stack trace, but it would be so much nicer if the reference were pretty printed	02:36
+perlDreamer	Haarg: this patch gets all the way down into the Shortcut asset, then dies due to a missing fieldType in a property http://gist.github.com/318994	02:44
+perlDreamer	the fieldType is defined in the property, and it's the first one called so it seems like someplace the fieldType is getting lost	02:44
+perlDreamer	I think the problem is Definition::Meta::Class, _build_property_metaclass	03:11
+perlDreamer	it's not setting the property metaclass correctly	03:11
+perlDreamer	this causes everything to be stuck inside form	03:11
+perlDreamer	and not get to the property, which then complains about not getting a fieldType	03:11
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I got it!	03:28
+perlDreamer	I'll paste a patch after dinner	03:28
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+perlDreamer	Haarg: http://gist.github.com/319042	04:02
+perlDreamer	the last piece was, inside add_property, it was calling $prop_meta->meta	04:02
@Haarg	where are you seeing the for vs for_class change needed?	04:02
+perlDreamer	in the calls to the Utility methods	04:02
+perlDreamer	it's in the patch	04:03
@Haarg	looks like it should just be for given the Moose::Util::MetaRole docs	04:03
@Haarg	what version of Moose do you have installed?	04:04
+perlDreamer	0.93	04:04
@Haarg	i have 0.98	04:04
+perlDreamer	let's change testEnvironment.pl, and I'll upgrade to your version	04:05
+perlDreamer	with that change, the only change needed should be removing the inherited is from Meta::Property::Asset	04:06
+perlDreamer	and the $prop_meta->meta thing	04:06
+perlDreamer	I wonder if that's going to happen everywhere the sub names were different	04:08
+perlDreamer	and option names	04:08
@Haarg	option names?	04:08
+perlDreamer	metaclass_roles vs class_metaroles	04:09
@Haarg	http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Moose-0.98/lib/Moose/Util/MetaRole.pm	04:09
+perlDreamer	we're going to have to watch Moose very carefully	04:10
+perlDreamer	okay, now I'm getting exactly what you said earlier	04:18
+perlDreamer	the property meta isn't being set correctly for Assets	04:18
@Haarg	what happens with your full patch applied but the new moose version?	04:18
+perlDreamer	don't know	04:20
+perlDreamer	massive chaos, since the sub names and options are all from the earlier version	04:20
+perlDreamer	that's what I would guess	04:20
@Haarg	the earlier stuff all still works	04:21
@Haarg	i'm trying to finish up this section of the merge i'm working on so i can test stuff out.	04:21
@Haarg	perlDreamer, i applied your patch and it fails with the tableName problem	04:42
+perlDreamer	that's running t/Definition/Asset.t	05:02
@Haarg	yes	05:03
+perlDreamer	Definition's init_meta gets called after Definition:Asset's init_meta	05:06
+perlDreamer	unless that's a testing artifact	05:07
@Haarg	Definition::Asset->init_meta calls Definition->init_meta	05:08
+perlDreamer	yes, but it's getting called a 2nd time somehow	05:10
+perlDreamer	and when it gets called the 2nd time, it's overwriting the applied classes, removing the ones set up by WebGUI::Definition::Asset	05:13
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Definition is a role	05:29
+perlDreamer	and it's used by Definition::Asset;	05:30
+perlDreamer	I think it's applying the init_meta to every class that uses Definition::Asset	05:30
+perlDreamer	so that it gets called	05:30
+perlDreamer	so it calls Definition::Asset, which calls Definition and then does it's specific configuration	05:30
+perlDreamer	then it calls Definition's init_meta again, and that overwrites the base role and metaroles	05:31
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elnino	hi!	05:52
elnino	when you put in multiple anchors in an article, is there a GUI way to link to it from another article?	05:53
elnino	does that make sense?	05:55
+perlDreamer	it does, but there's no GUI way to link to any of them	05:55
+perlDreamer	not that I know of	05:55
elnino	ok. I didn't think so, but thought I'd ask anyway	05:56
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, the second call to WebGUI::Definition->init_meta is being provided by Moose::Exporter	08:08
+perlDreamer	it's like it's calling init_meta up the stack	08:08
+perlDreamer	using linearized_isa	08:08
@Haarg	well, it can't be that because there is no inheritance	08:09
@Haarg	it's probably the 'with'	08:09
@Haarg	sorry, 'also'	08:10
+perlDreamer	removing also removes the sugar	08:13
+perlDreamer	what I don't get is that we have an init_meta inside WG::D::A	08:13
+perlDreamer	so why do we get 2?	08:13
+perlDreamer	it's there because it's a role	08:33
@Haarg	because what is a role?	08:33
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Definition	08:34
@Haarg	not realy	08:34
+perlDreamer	with no inheritance, how else could there be two of them?	08:34
@Haarg	two of what?	08:34
+perlDreamer	init_meta methods	08:35
@Haarg	WebGUI::Definition's gets called because of the 'also'	08:36
@Haarg	and because we explicitly call it	08:36
+perlDreamer	I'm shot	08:41
+perlDreamer	I'm going to call it a night.	08:41
@Haarg	i've been confusing myself some	08:41
@Haarg	paying attention to how the role is applied to the metaclass	08:42
@Haarg	forgetting that it's the propery metaclass that is the problem	08:42
+perlDreamer	that's okay, I'm still confused with how you get 2 init_meta methods in 1 package's namespace, without using inheritance	08:43
@Haarg	in one package namespace?	08:43
@Haarg	they don't get exported to the class they are used in	08:43
@Haarg	they are called by import	08:43
@Haarg	ok	08:44
+perlDreamer	so it does keep track of the classes, and calls init_meta in each one	08:45
@Haarg	i changed some other things and was getting the same failures	08:45
@Haarg	remove the + from has 'property_metaroles' and everything works	08:45
@Haarg	(almost)	08:45
@Haarg	not really deep tracking	08:45
@Haarg	WebGUI::Definition::Asset has also => 'WebGUI::Definition'	08:46
@Haarg	so when WebGUI::Definition::import gets called	08:46
@Haarg	it calls the generated $import method	08:46
+perlDreamer	what other changes do you have, that aren't committed	08:46
+perlDreamer	if I remove the +, I get missing fieldType warnings	08:46
@Haarg	which calls init_meta in WebGUI::Definition::Asset because it is defined there, and init_meta in WebGUI::Definition because of the also	08:47
@Haarg	i'm going to try to minimize the changes	08:47
@Haarg	pushed my changes	08:50
+perlDreamer	only 1 failing test	08:52
+perlDreamer	way better than before	08:52
@Haarg	yeah	08:53
@Haarg	that one is likely something i broke when making changes	08:53
@Haarg	some places where it was doing ->isa and i had to do the checks different because ->does and ->does_role weren't working right	08:54
@Haarg	they only work on Moose classes and it seems like some of the metaclasses end up getting created as Class::MOP classes	08:54
@Haarg	and don't have the extra tracking for roles	08:54
+perlDreamer	is that due to the anonymous classes that are created?	08:56
@Haarg	something like that	08:56
@Haarg	if you have a Moose class and apply a role to it that stuff is tracked, but it seems like some of the metaclasses don't.	08:57
+perlDreamer	you think it's a bug?	08:57
@Haarg	i'm not really familiar with cmp_deeply, but it will need to do a different type of check than an isa	08:57
@Haarg	i have no idea	08:57
@Haarg	also, i don't really love the _property_metaclass thing i have in there, but it worked so i left it	08:59
+perlDreamer	we'll have to build something for cmp_deeply, it only provides an isa method by default	09:04
+perlDreamer	but we should be able to construct something that does ->can fairly easily	09:04
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:38
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+bartjol	hi	16:51
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+perlDreamer	bartjol: definitely	17:03
+bartjol	ah, bien	17:05
+bartjol	because I suppose, my part fixes the part of getting the correct language and the replacement of the files the other stuff	17:06
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+bartjol	perlDreamer: my fix works, but might it not be better to create the i18n object, which should be able to provide the abbreviation?	17:09
+perlDreamer	yes, that would probably be better	17:10
+perlDreamer	do you want to alter your patch to do that?	17:10
+bartjol	yes	17:12
+bartjol	I was going to that, but Koen interrupted me by telephone :)	17:13
+perlDreamer	that's what you get for giving him your phone number	17:16
+bartjol	well, it was the number of procolix	17:18
+bartjol	well, it can be very short:	17:23
+bartjol	my $sessionLanguage = $i18n->{_language};	17:24
+bartjol	my $language = $i18n->getLanguage($sessionLanguage,"languageAbbreviation");	17:24
+bartjol	the i18n object is already created before :)	17:24
+bartjol	useless to copy that code from sub new in international.pm	17:24
+perlDreamer	there's a way to get ->{_language} through the object, too, yes?	17:25
+bartjol	well, the line I posted	17:25
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+bartjol	you can skip the first line and replace $sessionLanguage in the second line by $i18n->{_language}	17:26
+bartjol	that's the shortest	17:26
+bartjol	and	17:26
+bartjol	the lines with the unless ($language} are obsolete I believe	17:27
+bartjol	new defaults to english I believe	17:27
+perlDreamer	I mean, there must be a way through the API to get $i18n->{_language} without peeking inside the object	17:27
+bartjol	oh, you mean like a real get method	17:27
+bartjol	not sure, I was trying to find that	17:28
+perlDreamer	there isn't	17:29
+perlDreamer	I see	17:29
+bartjol	ah, and I was wrong about new	17:29
+perlDreamer	we don't need to pass the language in	17:29
+bartjol	we need the abbreviation	17:30
+perlDreamer	$language = $i18n->get('', 'languageAbbreviation');	17:30
+bartjol	oh	17:30
+bartjol	sure	17:30
+bartjol	indeed	17:30
+perlDreamer	which means the language should be the 2nd argument	17:30
+bartjol	mmm, maybe there are other circumstances where the 1st is better	17:31
+perlDreamer	there shouldn't be, the property name is required, and the language is optional	17:31
+perlDreamer	hash based would work okay, too	17:31
+bartjol	well	17:31
+bartjol	I can't really overview the complications	17:32
+bartjol	my $language = $i18n->getLanguage($i18n->{_language},"languageAbbreviation"); looks nice and readable to me though	17:33
+bartjol	and it works	17:36
+perlDreamer	I think the unless code is there to handle broken language packs, without making the rich editor crash	17:36
+bartjol	and spanish isn't my best alnguage	17:36
+perlDreamer	no, it doesn't have any TinyMCE translations	17:37
+bartjol	the default stuff is there	17:37
+bartjol	but not webgui plugin stuff	17:38
+bartjol	but, are we gonna renew all getLanguage calls?	17:39
+perlDreamer	renew?	17:39
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbeb1337 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/RichEdit.pm): Make the RichEditor obey the new session overrides for language settings. Fixes bug #11443. - http://bit.ly/d2uvmd	17:40
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r85dd7cc / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/RichEdit.pm): Make the RichEditor obey the new session overrides for language settings. Fixes bug #11443. - http://bit.ly/8YBGSn	17:40
+bartjol	if you wanna swap language and the translation ID	17:40
+perlDreamer	oh, no. That would have to happen in WebGUI 8	17:41
+perlDreamer	and for all I know Haarg has plans to completely change that	17:41
+bartjol	yeah, well, I grepped throuh the code, it's only about 10 entries	17:42
+bartjol	but still	17:42
+bartjol	ok	17:42
+perlDreamer	yes, we could fix the core, but completely break all the custom code out there	17:42
+perlDreamer	which, might help with budgets in the future, but would not make customers happy	17:43
+bartjol	customers? since when are those important?	17:43
+bartjol	well that seems fixed in my site	17:45
+perlDreamer	I went with '' instead of $i18n->{_language}	17:45
+bartjol	and less code in total	17:45
+bartjol	I saw it in git	17:45
+perlDreamer	time to take the kiddos to school	17:45
+bartjol	have fun	17:45
+perlDreamer	okay, kids are taken care of	18:02
+perlDreamer	bartjol is happy	18:02
+perlDreamer	time to work with rogier	18:02
+bartjol	but, any specific reason to let out the $i18n->{_language} ? because it is shorter or quicker?	18:03
+bartjol	just interested	18:03
+bartjol	it is not better readable	18:03
+bartjol	sorry for reopening :)	18:03
+perlDreamer	it breaks object encapsulation, and isn't needed	18:04
+perlDreamer	it's better to use the bad API design than to peek inside the object like that	18:04
+bartjol	I believe you	18:04
+bartjol	not sure why yet	18:04
+bartjol	it is only looking	18:05
+bartjol	it's a matter of not being best practises I suppose	18:06
+perlDreamer	yes	18:07
+perlDreamer	peeking inside objects (when not needed) is bad	18:07
+perlDreamer	because if the object changes, your peeking may break	18:07
+perlDreamer	and then you have to hunt all through the code base to find the breakage	18:08
+perlDreamer	because we don't have enough tests to cover all the code	18:08
+bartjol	doesn't rogier's bug solution also indicated that or used tempalted can't be deleted, or automatical setting change at removal	18:08
+bartjol	ah, ok	18:08
+perlDreamer	there should be a fallback for "critical" operations	18:08
+perlDreamer	so that users don't break their sites badly	18:09
+perlDreamer	so we fix the login templates, but create account and the others will just stay broken	18:09
+perlDreamer	since you could login and fix those	18:09
+bartjol	yeah	18:10
+bartjol	just a way of preventing people like rogier to lock themselves out	18:10
+bartjol	:)	18:10
+bartjol	I suppose I'm one of them cruel sysadmins	18:10
+bartjol	time to go	18:12
+bartjol	thanks for the explanation perlDreamer	18:12
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rc31110d / (4 files in 3 dirs): Try to fallback to a default login template if the configured one won't work. Fixes bug #11450. - http://bit.ly/9Ucgvs	18:51
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r119d513 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Try to fallback to a default login template if the configured one won't work. Fixes bug #11450. - http://bit.ly/9zFOpo	18:52
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dionak	Hi all	19:05
+perlDreamer	hey, dionak!	19:05
dionak	how are things in WG land?	19:05
+perlDreamer	not too bad	19:06
+perlDreamer	we just released 7.8-stable	19:06
+perlDreamer	WebGUI 8 work continues on	19:06
dionak	yes, i noticed that. congrads!	19:06
dionak	speaking of upgrades & releases. Quick upgrade question. I'm upgrade a site from 7.5.40 to 7.7.20. I'm following what I think is the prescribed upgrade path. 7.5.40->7.6.35->7.7.20. Did I miss any step?	19:07
dionak	i'm getting the following error: Adding comments asset aspect...DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'assetAspectComments' already exists	19:07
+perlDreamer	how many times did you go through the upgrade?	19:07
dionak	a couple now. i've restored the database and the lib & doc files when starting over	19:08
+perlDreamer	at which step in the upgrade does that happen?	19:08
dionak	copied a fresh version from production (7.5.40)	19:08
dionak	hrspotlight_com 7.5.40-7.6.10	19:08
dionak	the script makes several db alters before failing on this one	19:08
+perlDreamer	in the 7.5.40, does the assetAspectsComments table exist in the 7.5.40 database?	19:09
+perlDreamer	the other thing that can happen is that when restoring the database, it has to be dropped.	19:10
+perlDreamer	because importing the backup will not delete the newly created tables	19:10
dionak	ah, that's the issue.	19:10
dionak	thanks. i'll make a note	19:10
+perlDreamer	we should stick that in the wiki somewhere	19:11
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, spent most of the morning doing core bug fixing	19:17
+perlDreamer	I'll have a go at the wg8 tests when I come back from the gym	19:17
@Haarg	cool	19:18
@Haarg	the good part of that test failure in the roles stuff is that it is only a rest failure and the code itself is working afaik	19:18
dionak	i stuck that note in a wiki entry. thanks for the pointer perlDreamer	19:20
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dionak	another question. while running the upgrade from 7.6.35-7.7.17 I get: Reverting use packed... Invalid asset id 'pGyXTw9lAizHICubVyYqEQ' requested! at upgrade_7.6.35-7.7.17.pl line 1448	19:50
dionak	Is there a utility tool anywhere to check the validity of assetIds?	19:50
dionak	or method?	20:05
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+perlDreamer	dionak, we need a tool like that	20:40
+perlDreamer	it should be a Cron job that runs weekly and alerts admins to broken assets in their sites	20:41
+perlDreamer	that way, they can fix them _before_ doing upgrades	20:41
dionak	yea, that would be handy. i'll keep that in mind	20:49
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, it would be nice if the classes were sane, but I agree that it's better that they're functional then pretty :)	20:59
+perlDreamer	Haarg: here's the test patch-> http://gist.github.com/319799	21:02
+perlDreamer	after this, can we merge and start role hackery?	21:03
ckotil	where are you using roles?	21:05
@preaction	the old AssetAspects are becoming Moose::Roles	21:06
ckotil	ah. ive never heard of either :)	21:06
+perlDreamer	AssetAspects provide things like RssFeeds	21:07
+perlDreamer	Installability	21:07
+perlDreamer	Subscribability	21:07
+perlDreamer	etc.	21:07
+perlDreamer	in WebGUI8, they do all that, and more	21:07
@preaction	reusable bits of asset functionality	21:07
ckotil	ah cool	21:08
+perlDreamer	preaction: what's involved in update the VM for WebGUI?	21:25
@preaction	i don't know, never made one	21:26
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@preaction	perlDreamer: my real solution to that login template problem is to put the default webGUI templates on the filesystem, so that they simply cannot be edited OR deleted	22:49
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+perlDreamer	we could just lock them down in the database so they can't be deleted through the UI	22:55
@preaction	yeah, but still annoying to edit default templates and no way to patch / track	22:55
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+perlDreamer	preaction, in 7.9 I'm planning on adding testHarness 3.17 to testEnvironment.pl. Any issues, concerns, worries, directives or comments?	23:52
@preaction	as an optional install correct?	23:52
+perlDreamer	parts of the Survey won't work without it	23:53
@preaction	okay, go ahead	23:53
@preaction	if it's necessary for normal operation it's required, if it's only necessary for testing, it's optional	23:53
@preaction	that should be true for all our requirements	23:53
+perlDreamer	well, in that case	23:54
+perlDreamer	it's used for testing the Survey, from inside the Survey	23:54
@preaction	right, but it's an end-user utility	23:54
+perlDreamer	instead of t/test.t	23:54
+perlDreamer	got it	23:54
@preaction	we've got five types of users: Devs, Admins, Designers, Content Managers, and Visitors. only Devs are concerned about the unit tests, and only devs will take the time to learn how to install the optional components	23:56
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@preaction	we should just Do The Right Thing when it comes to Admins, Designers, Content Managers, and Visitors	23:56
@preaction	Admins should never have to concern themselves with Dev problems, Designers with Admin problems, Content Managers with Designer problems, etc..	23:56
* preaction should draw up a UI guideline document someday		23:57
+perlDreamer	definitely	23:57
+perlDreamer	documentation is good	23:57
@preaction	we'd be able to simplify the UI if we specified the rules under which certain things should happen	23:57
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8128f54 / (4 files in 4 dirs): WebGUI now needs Test::Harness 3.17 or higher for the Survey. Fixes bug #11402. - http://bit.ly/aPGJYt	23:59
@preaction	wait, is that really a bug?	23:59
@preaction	if it's a bug, we can add the additional requirements to the 7.8 series	23:59
+perlDreamer	it was supposed to go into 7.8, but was added late	23:59
--- Day changed Wed Mar 03 2010
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+perlDreamer	so the change was backed out, with the condition it could go into 7.9	00:00
+perlDreamer	so not really a bug	00:00
@preaction	ahh	00:00
@preaction	ok	00:00
+perlDreamer	but I didn't want to forget it, so I posted a bug about it	00:00
+perlDreamer	I did something similar with WeatherData	00:00
@preaction	yeah, that's no problem. just making sure	00:00
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+perlDreamer	speaking of the man himself!	00:01
+perlDreamer	yo, patspam	00:01
+perlDreamer	Did you detect a disturbance in the Survey?	00:01
+perlDreamer	I need to go pick up the kids from school	00:04
+perlDreamer	bbl	00:04
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CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r13b7538 / (5 files in 4 dirs): start of conversion to metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/abUtee	01:35
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra2f0cbe / (6 files in 3 dirs): fix more things for metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/aByuWi	01:35
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r12fcdf2 / (6 files in 5 dirs): almost working using metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/bSq7DV	01:35
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra5f54a7 / (4 files in 3 dirs): mostly working definition roles - http://bit.ly/9m9rC4	01:35
+perlDreamer	Haarg, the tests work, but Asset.pm is not in good shape	01:54
@Haarg	what kind of problems are you running into?	01:54
+perlDreamer	around blocks, and mixing property and has	01:55
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/320132	01:56
@Haarg	when are you getting that?	01:57
@Haarg	i just updated WebGUI8 and i'm not getting errors like that	01:58
@Haarg	perl -Ilib -mWebGUI::Asset -wce1 works fine	01:58
+perlDreamer	that's perl -wc -I /data/WebGUI/lib Asset.pm	01:59
@Haarg	re-including the same file is what is messing it up	02:00
@Haarg	does that normally work for you? or does it normally work but with errors?	02:01
@Haarg	err	02:01
@Haarg	but with warnings	02:01
+perlDreamer	it normally works, with no syntax errors, sometimes I get warnings about subroutines being redefined	02:01
+perlDreamer	but all the Asset modules include one another incestuously	02:01
@Haarg	yeah, but that is fine	02:01
@Haarg	the problem is that you are giving it just the file	02:02
+perlDreamer	I'll rewrite my vim bindkeys	02:02
@Haarg	so it goes through Asset.pm, which includes WebGUI::AssetLineage, which includes WebGUI::Asset, which perl doesn't know it loaded already	02:02
+perlDreamer	how do I use the new/improved Definition to build a role now?	02:03
@Haarg	that's a good question.	02:03
+perlDreamer	you mean the goal of doing this wasn't to make making roles possible?	02:06
@Haarg	it was	02:06
@Haarg	it's just not complete yet	02:06
@Haarg	the first problem is that it tries to apply WebGUI::Definition::Role::Asset to the role class	02:10
@Haarg	http://gist.github.com/320151 not perfect but at least gets RssFeed compiling	02:20
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+perlDreamer	what causes the metaclass of RssFeed to be different?	02:24
@Haarg	it is a role	02:24
+perlDreamer	ah, use Moose::Role	02:24
@Haarg	i can't get Asset::Wobject to load right now	02:25
+perlDreamer	is that because it uses extends?	02:25
@Haarg	possibly	02:25
@Haarg	is something broken with extends?	02:26
+perlDreamer	can't use extends with roles	02:26
+perlDreamer	I think	02:26
@Haarg	oh. you can't use them in roles	02:26
@Haarg	but you can still have inheritance with your non-role classes	02:26
@Haarg	asset itself works	02:27
@Haarg	but all subclasses are borken	02:27
@Haarg	man that's a seriously screwed up error	02:29
+perlDreamer	could you commit the gist patch?	02:30
@Haarg	yeah. i want to clean that up eventually but it's a good enough start.	02:30
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r38e2e09 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): apply correct roles/metaroles to roles - http://bit.ly/c6UmhX	02:31
+perlDreamer	thanks :)	02:32
+perlDreamer	wait a sec	02:33
+perlDreamer	the thing with extends should only fail if Asset.pm is a Role	02:33
+perlDreamer	which it isn't	02:33
@Haarg	exactly	02:33
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CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rd932543 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject.pm : clean up Wobject includes - http://bit.ly/cJN2Pt	02:35
+perlDreamer	when you say it won't load, what does that mean?	02:35
@Haarg	Asset::Wobject (or any other Asset subclass) fails to compile	02:36
+perlDreamer	perl -I/data/WebGUI/lib -mWebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Article -wce1	02:36
+perlDreamer	like that?	02:36
+perlDreamer	Article compiles for me	02:37
+perlDreamer	and until the most recent commit, Wobject compiled okay for me too	02:37
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doc777	I seem to have gotten 2 sites that have "cross linked" themselves. Each seems to be looking for files in the "other" domains folder and cannot find them. using the latest wre. Any clues as to what I have done wrong?	02:44
+perlDreamer	check the config files	02:45
+perlDreamer	uploadsPath	02:45
doc777	ok, thanks :o)	02:45
doc777	uploadsURL is /uploads should that be something else? The uploads path looks correct. But site A looks for files in site B dir according to modproxy-error.	02:48
+perlDreamer	uploadsURL can be anything	02:49
@preaction	DocumentRoot in the modproxy files?	02:50
* perlDreamer takes the kids to piano lessons. I should be back online at 6pm or so		02:52
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doc777	They seem correct. Everything was fine on site A, then I added site B and suddenly noticed site A was wrecked. Checking the log file show that site A is looking at site Bs upload folder.	02:53
doc777	I think it is this: RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://127.0.0.1:8081/$1	02:55
@preaction	oh, old WRE	03:06
@preaction	you need ProxyPreserveHost On	03:06
doc777	Ah, let me check that out :)	03:09
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* patspam emerges from under a rock		05:06
@preaction	yay!	05:06
@preaction	how was it?	05:06
+patspam	cosy :)	05:06
+patspam	I installed linux based firmware (dd-wrt) on my router today, yay!	05:07
+perlDreamer	patspam: no more TAP hacks in Survey	05:07
+patspam	tell me more	05:07
+perlDreamer	well, we have WebGUI 7.9 now, so I made Test::Harness 3.x a requirement	05:10
+perlDreamer	so no more eval { require TAP::MOD } or show_error_message;	05:11
+patspam	sweet!	05:12
+patspam	dang, I just transcoded a dvd of old family footage and the resulting avi file was bigger than the original vob files	05:13
+perlDreamer	oy	05:17
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r644b74c / docs/create.sql : Ready for 7.8.14 release. - http://bit.ly/by7wyx	07:09
+perlDreamer	all done	07:37
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rca0d7cc / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.15 development. - http://bit.ly/b5rt3E	07:37
-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.7.33-stable \| 7.8.14-stable \| WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com		07:41
+perlDreamer	thanks, Radix_	07:42
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+perlDreamer	bartjol, you are internationally happy today?	17:03
+bartjol	eeeh, hevan't looked yet	17:06
+bartjol	oh, I did	17:06
+bartjol	but only at the macro	17:06
+bartjol	and I had all stuff installed already	17:06
+bartjol	richedit is great too	17:07
+bartjol	and i18n still at 100%	17:10
SDuensin	Hey gang. Does the new 7.8.14 upgrade correctly?	17:18
+bartjol	mine did	17:18
SDuensin	I know it had missing packages or something last time, so I waited.	17:18
+bartjol	haven't found any yet	17:18
+bartjol	but I installed them with the script	17:19
+bartjol	so that is not complete certainty	17:19
+bartjol	i.e: I took another route	17:19
SDuensin	I'll quit asking you then. :-P	17:20
SDuensin	I fear upgrades enough as it is.	17:20
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+bartjol	but what you can do	17:22
+bartjol	to copy my path	17:22
+bartjol	is upgrade to 7.8.13, run the packages script and then upgrade to 7.8.14	17:23
+bartjol	SDuensin: just as easy :)	17:23
SDuensin	True.	17:24
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+bartjol	and don't follow rogiers directions on login templates	17:25
+perlDreamer	7.8.14 is all fixed up	17:27
+perlDreamer	the missing templates are added back in	17:28
+perlDreamer	and yeah, don't let rogier muck with your login templates	17:28
+perlDreamer	otherwise bartjol the mean admin will laugh at you	17:28
+bartjol	I know, but I just didn't test it the "normal" way	17:28
+perlDreamer	bartjol, do you have the screen program installed on your servers?	17:29
+bartjol	oh, yeah, you asked silly questions, let me ponder on how to lay my wrath opun you	17:29
SDuensin	perlDreamer - So pop to the latest 7.7.x and then on up?	17:29
+bartjol	bart@host116~> which screen	17:29
+bartjol	/usr/bin/screen	17:29
+bartjol	I do apparently	17:29
SDuensin	SCREEN!	17:29
* SDuensin loves that program.		17:30
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, what version are you on now?	17:30
SDuensin	Uh. Looking.	17:30
+bartjol	but maybe not all	17:31
SDuensin	7.7.32	17:31
+bartjol	today is a day of dumb people asking questions	17:31
+perlDreamer	so, upgrade to 7.7.33	17:31
+perlDreamer	then go to 7.8.13	17:31
+bartjol	bbiam	17:31
SDuensin	7.8.13?	17:32
+perlDreamer	7.8.13	17:34
+perlDreamer	well,7.8.14	17:34
+perlDreamer	but the upgrade path is 7.7.x to 7.7.33 to 7.8.13 to 7.8.14	17:34
SDuensin	Ok. Didn't know there was a stop at 13.	17:34
+perlDreamer	there's not a stop, but instead of going from 7.7.33 to 7.8.0, it will shunt you up to 7.8.13	17:36
SDuensin	ok.	17:38
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r53d63bc / (docs/create.sql docs/previousVersion.sql): Fix SQL scripts for the next beta release. - http://bit.ly/aCFPNU	18:23
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, why does WebGUI::Definition::Meta::Class need to install the properties into a new anonymous class?	19:18
+perlDreamer	and oose.pm is just evil	19:18
@Haarg	it needs to have an instance of the attribute metaclass to check for which sub-attributes to stick in 'form'	19:28
+perlDreamer	so, before the recent set of patches, Moose was building one for us?	19:30
@Haarg	we weren't using a role but specifying a class. so there was no need to construct the class, we already had it.	19:38
+perlDreamer	would it be easier to duplicate the Definition code in another class that is the base class for Roles, instead of trying to build a dual purpose solution?	19:43
@Haarg	possibly	19:44
@Haarg	having the if condition i added in seems to work for that part though.	19:45
+perlDreamer	sure. I was just thinking about the Asset subclasses not being able to load the anonymous meta classes	19:47
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r122bd26 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset.t): Add keywords accessor for looking up Asset keywords. - http://bit.ly/deCsLs	21:04
+perlDreamer	Haarg, did you try using any of the Asset subclasses, or just syntax check them?	21:06
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0a0b655 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Eval and error handling for processTemplate. - http://bit.ly/dn2zKg	21:10
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r44c6048 / t/Asset/Wobject/Shelf.t : Update test for exception handling. - http://bit.ly/a48MoX	21:10
+perlDreamer	I just realized I've been running wobject tests for the last 20 minutes	21:10
@Haarg	looks like maybe i'm only getting warnings	21:10
+perlDreamer	I saw the same thing, and figured they were errors	21:11
+perlDreamer	shelf works, btw	21:11
@Haarg	very strange warnings though	21:12
@Haarg	and if i try to load WebGUI::Asset::File i get a warning	21:12
@Haarg	but if i try to load WebGUI::Asset::File::Image i don't	21:12
+perlDreamer	I see that, too	21:13
+perlDreamer	ZipArchive has warnings	21:14
@Haarg	what i'm wondering is why Asset is getting an anonymous superclass	21:39
* perlDreamer quotes Bart Simpson, "I didn't do it!"		21:41
+perlDreamer	shouldn't the anonymous superclass be the class for the role that is added?	21:41
@Haarg	i guess	21:43
CIA-58	webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rd7b0d93 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): Apply Definition roles properly to eliminate warnings - http://bit.ly/8Y0ouh	21:49
@Haarg	Collaboration is compiling with RssFeed as a role. haven't tried to do any testing though.	21:50
+perlDreamer	testing I can do	21:52
+perlDreamer	brilliant API design and implementation I leave to my betters	21:52
+perlDreamer	however, right now I'm leaving my betters to go running	21:52
@Haarg	'brilliant' may be stretching it a bit. at this point i'm hoping i haven't invented something too complex.	21:53
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb4a790a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/fileImport.pl): Fix handling filenames with space with overwrite=1 in fileImport.pl. Fixes bug #11453 - http://bit.ly/dxU23B	23:28
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r446403c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/fileImport.pl): Fix handling filenames with space with overwrite=1 in fileImport.pl. Fixes bug #11453 - http://bit.ly/9bMUUN	23:28
+perlDreamer	Haarg: the role seems to be adopting the table of the consumer	23:30
+perlDreamer	but that may be an artifact of the way I wrote write	23:31
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/321054	23:32
kimd	preaction, do you have time for a quick JS question?	23:52
kimd	How can access the id of an element?	23:52
kimd	el.id doesn't work.	23:52
kimd	Or does someone else know?	23:54
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@Haarg	perlDreamer, probably because of the way the get_all_tables method works	00:04
kimd	Ok, I got it. No need to answer.	00:04
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, it's both	00:27
+perlDreamer	since roles inject themselves into the class	00:27
+perlDreamer	inspecting the class metas is flawed	00:27
+perlDreamer	I think someone mentioned that to me at one point	00:27
@preaction	version tags serve two purposes: staging content and history/rollback, correct?	00:39
@preaction	for the most part, users don't want staging content unless they actually know they want it, then they could take an extra step or two to create a "stage"	00:40
@preaction	and history/rollback can be done without staging content	00:41
@preaction	three purposes: approval	00:42
+perlDreamer	approval is a side effect of staging	00:42
+perlDreamer	and has little to do with the tags themselves	00:42
+perlDreamer	at least, that's the way that version tags are built today	00:43
@preaction	right	00:43
@preaction	i'm just thinking that websites keep evolving, everybody wants to add content and admins want that content added in a structured way	00:45
@preaction	and if we could do it all again... what would we do?	00:46
+perlDreamer	Haarg has this idea about versions versus revisions	00:47
+perlDreamer	right now an asset can contain both	00:47
+perlDreamer	well, not really versions versus revisions, but versioned and non-versioned data	00:47
+perlDreamer	and that you should be able to access them independently	00:47
@preaction	well, in a DBIC world there'd be a DBIC::Versioned or whatever	00:48
@preaction	or a WebGUI::Model::Role::Versioned	00:49
@preaction	and in a perfect world i'd have a pony	00:51
+perlDreamer	in a perfect world, I'd give you the pony	00:52
+perlDreamer	I think WebGUI's version system works okay	00:52
+perlDreamer	it could be implemented better though	00:52
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+perlDreamer	and it would be nice if it versioned everything	00:53
+perlDreamer	but I know that's much more challenging	00:53
@preaction	would anyone object if Folder had a checkbox to "Commit added files automatically"	00:54
+perlDreamer	how about if it has a user selectable workflow in the edit properties?	00:55
@preaction	of course it would need that	00:55
+perlDreamer	it won't work	00:55
@preaction	but then what about subfolders?	00:55
+perlDreamer	they inherit from the parent, or you can override	00:56
+perlDreamer	it won't work because the children don't check the parent for the autocommit tag	00:56
@preaction	this just opens a nice big huge can of worms	00:56
+perlDreamer	yes	00:56
+perlDreamer	what that person wants is per branch configuration of commit workflow	00:56
@preaction	why does it always seem like i could reduce WebGUI to like 5 assets?	00:58
+perlDreamer	they'd be 5 very fat assets, not like the beautiful ones we have now :P	00:58
@preaction	which ones are those?	01:00
@preaction	we'd need a Folder, a Calendar, a RawContent, a RichContent, and a File	01:00
+perlDreamer	What about Sku's?	01:00
+perlDreamer	and the DataForm?	01:01
+perlDreamer	or forum?	01:01
@preaction	Form of course	01:01
@preaction	forum is a folder of folders of richcontents	01:01
@preaction	gallery is a folder of folders of files	01:01
@preaction	blog is a folder of richcontents	01:01
@preaction	richcontent would have useful, individually-placed attachments	01:02
@preaction	wiki is a folder of richcontents editable by anyone	01:02
+perlDreamer	Poll?	01:03
@preaction	form with a proper set of reporting features	01:03
+perlDreamer	Sku?	01:04
@preaction	would have to be its own asset as part of shop, but that's an entire subsystem of its own	01:04
@preaction	and a subclass of RichContent, of course	01:04
+perlDreamer	Sku is a role	01:06
+perlDreamer	so that you can buy or sell any of the other ones	01:06
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't doubt that you could do what you're talking about	01:10
+perlDreamer	I think we'd end up with "deep" sets of assets, instead of "wide" ones	01:10
+perlDreamer	where there are lots of subclasses, instead of siblings	01:10
+perlDreamer	preaction: how about a CommitMyChanges macro?	01:16
+perlDreamer	that would work outside of TurnAdminOn	01:16
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@preaction	they're normal users though, they don't know about version tags or committing or anything like that	01:17
+perlDreamer	you could make the label say anything	01:17
+perlDreamer	You must check-in your files after uploading	01:17
+perlDreamer	or whatever	01:17
+perlDreamer	the thing is, what the user really needs is access to the commit link	01:17
@preaction	well, what the user really needs is for the Gallery to allow any file uploads	01:18
@preaction	or to use a Collaboration System, or something	01:18
+perlDreamer	could you style a gallery to look like a folder	01:19
+perlDreamer	without albums and thumbnails and the like?	01:19
@preaction	of course	01:19
+perlDreamer	wel	01:22
+perlDreamer	Folder is such a nice, small, Asset though	01:22
+perlDreamer	Gallery is big!	01:22
@preaction	yes, but Gallery is only big because it has to deal with normal user input and versioning. if Folder had to, it would be big too	01:24
+perlDreamer	can you deep nest albums, like Folders?	01:25
@preaction	if we let anyone add files to a folder, we have to control it, filter it, secure it, and etc...	01:25
@preaction	no, but that's not out of the question as a feature	01:25
@preaction	just, nobody asked for it. nobody ever asks for it	01:26
+perlDreamer	Haarg: new write method for Asset -> http://gist.github.com/321187	01:27
+perlDreamer	I need to expand the tests to consider roles	01:27
+perlDreamer	preaction, it seems to be a dance between implementing so many features that we're too big to use, and not having enough features for people to get work done	01:31
@preaction	yes. we add too little for the feature to matter to people to want to use it	01:32
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure about that	01:35
@preaction	i've heard a dozen times people don't use Gallery simply because they can't nest albums	01:36
+perlDreamer	they why don't they file an RFE to get it done?	01:38
+perlDreamer	or pay to get it done?	01:38
+perlDreamer	or just write it themselves?	01:38
@preaction	because they aren't invested enough, they'd rather go find something that works	01:38
@preaction	they'd rather get their job done instead of merely telling someone else to do it	01:39
+perlDreamer	then we have to be psychic enough to know what people are going to need before we write stuff	01:40
@preaction	that's easy though: look at what everyone else is doing	01:40
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4d3d031 / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Asset.pm : remove copy/paste variable names. - http://bit.ly/ahADuf	01:46
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf88c18e / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Fix the write method to iterate over each property to get the table names instead of looking in the class metaproperties. - http://bit.ly/aQbbjK	01:46
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3d52c45 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Changes to Post and Collaboration, for new Asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/auSYje	01:46
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rda57427 / asset_status.ods : Collaboration tests are passing now. - http://bit.ly/9Yl3Ke	01:46
+perlDreamer	everyone else is using PHP :D	01:46
@preaction	but we can copy their features	02:02
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+perlDreamer	t/00_compile.t can be run!	02:32
+perlDreamer	github is down	02:33
+perlDreamer	a large portion of developers all leave for coffee	02:33
+perlDreamer	on the way out, they smile sadly at their boss and say, "Sorry, boss. But with github down we can do any work."	02:35
+perlDreamer	and the Boss scratches his head and says, "I thought that GitHub allowed offline work, which is why they spend all that time in the coffee shop...'	02:36
@preaction	and then they remember that git is distributed and allows pushing directly to production	02:36
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r814c2af / (55 files in 6 dirs): Change calls to new to newById across Asset/ - http://bit.ly/c9rLvt	02:41
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8f6c20d / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix lots of syntax errors and bad definition configuration. - http://bit.ly/d8XcR7	02:41
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r65a5053 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm : Fix a missing label in the WikiPage - http://bit.ly/9xWi9c	02:41
+perlDreamer	Today is a big day, preaction	02:41
+perlDreamer	t/00_compile.t runs clean	02:41
@preaction	yay!	02:42
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+perlDreamer	I think that in 2-3 weeks we could use an alpha server up and running for wg8	02:43
+perlDreamer	is that doable?	02:43
@preaction	we also need every action a user is allowed to do to be configurable... because that is eventually what they want	02:43
+perlDreamer	in wg8?	02:44
@preaction	no, 7	02:44
* perlDreamer is having a hard time with the context change		02:44
+perlDreamer	what kind of actions, and what kind of configurability?	02:44
@preaction	sorry, i'm approving RFEs, since we're unfrozen again	02:44
+perlDreamer	I warned you about those german language RFEs	02:45
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9b4a9be / (7 files in 2 dirs): Remove usage of Class:C3 in favor of roles. - http://bit.ly/bkzcjG	03:59
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@preaction	so many things are easy to do when you're first building an app, and absolutely impossible when you've got it deployed	04:10
@preaction	and so braindead as to wonder WHY it wasn't added in the first place	04:10
@preaction	i swear to god one day i'm gonna burn this place to the ground	04:16
@preaction	wonderful. i can't approve any other RFEs because i Can't find them. HelpDesk doesn't save sorting through pages	04:31
+perlDreamer	sounds like we should fix the sorting bug in the HelpDesk, sooner rather than later?	04:38
@preaction	frodwith will be doing so once he's finished with automat, so hopefully April	04:42
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7e673d4 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/RssFeed.pm : Don't need no stinkin' strict anymore! - http://bit.ly/ajKdGK	04:43
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5dc0299 / (4 files in 3 dirs): First cut at moving Subscribable to an Asset. - http://bit.ly/cffoTM	04:43
@preaction	that's the new tack: make paul do it	04:45
+perlDreamer	can you wait that long?	04:46
+perlDreamer	in any case, while we're working on the helpdesk, we need to display the time that a ticket was submited	04:47
@preaction	yeah, nobody's gonna be putting anything into 7.9 anyway	04:47
+perlDreamer	I think you may be surprised about that...	04:47
+perlDreamer	Luke Robinson's Login form code is a nice addition	04:47
@preaction	i know arjan has a couple things	04:47
+perlDreamer	and I may have a few pDC things to add as well	04:47
+perlDreamer	like the Folder DataForm template	04:48
@preaction	folder dataform template?	04:48
+perlDreamer	I'll get you a URL	04:48
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/file-manager-style-template-for-folder	04:49
+perlDreamer	the other thing I'd like to work on is the Asset manager pop-up menu rewrite	04:49
+perlDreamer	where we use 1 menu and pop it up in the right place, instead of making 25-50 of them	04:49
+perlDreamer	should really speed things up for loading	04:49
+perlDreamer	whaddya think?	04:51
+perlDreamer	(about the folder)	04:51
@preaction	sounds fine to me	04:51
+perlDreamer	also, knowing patspam, I wouldn't doubt there's something that couldn't be worked in wG 7.9 from SDH	04:53
+perlDreamer	maybe the template usage search and replace code	04:53
@preaction	heh, yeah, not seeing that happening	04:54
@preaction	webgui 7 just needs to go away	04:54
@preaction	and 8 too	04:54
@preaction	we need WebGUI X	04:54
@preaction	(that's 10, not Ecks)	04:54
+perlDreamer	8 will be good stuff	04:57
+perlDreamer	I just hope we don't get the huge turnover that happened with 6-7	04:57
+perlDreamer	I think we should do 1 high profile RFE, though	04:58
+perlDreamer	even if we have to do it off hours	04:58
+perlDreamer	it was a promise PB made to the community	04:58
@preaction	but WebGUI 8 has to be ready, period	04:59
+patspam	I'm hanging out for wg11	05:01
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra37b1c7 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Cleanup for moose accessors. - http://bit.ly/dhSLHD	05:02
+perlDreamer	I don't think there will ever be a WebGUI bigger than 8	05:02
+perlDreamer	Gooey is out of tentacles	05:02
@preaction	if i have complete authority for 2 major versions, i can make something totally awesome	05:05
+perlDreamer	If you'd make a Trait for JSON in an Asset property that would be totally awesome now	05:10
@preaction	but i don't like JSON in assets	05:11
@preaction	would even go so far as to say i hate it	05:11
+perlDreamer	how would you do it differently?	05:11
@preaction	normalized	05:13
+perlDreamer	see, you're using one of those CS terms that I don't understand	05:15
@preaction	a joined table	05:15
+perlDreamer	Is the Installable AssetAspect used anywhere?	05:16
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2b39e16 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Rough conversion of Comments and Installable to Moose. - http://bit.ly/bs75wc	05:22
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r36b6081 / (3 files): Update 3 Form plugins for Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/anQQE5	05:31
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra62e7b7 / lib/WebGUI/Session/Style.pm : Update Session for new Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/aLKgIO	05:35
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4137b19 / lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm : Update Account/Inbox plugin for new Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/bKZK8f	05:38
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r913802f / lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm : And again... - http://bit.ly/c9OvDh	05:39
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * raab930a / lib/WebGUI/Content/AssetDiscovery.pm : Update Content handlers for wg8. - http://bit.ly/bx3kSX	05:43
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r19d4e6d / lib/WebGUI/AdminConsole.pm : Update AdminConsole for instaniators. - http://bit.ly/dpzvbo	05:43
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd9e2816 / lib/WebGUI/Operation/Help.pm : Update Operation/Help for new asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/bcHo2a	05:44
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * red58eba / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : More instanciator cleanup in Asset.pm - http://bit.ly/bN71T4	05:48
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+patspam	night all	06:15
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re759890 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Update TrashExpiredEvents to wg8. - http://bit.ly/bNahwL	06:45
+perlDreamer	select assetId from EventsCalendar_event where eventEndDate < ?	06:45
@preaction	sounds awesome	06:47
+perlDreamer	aside from the table not existing	06:47
+perlDreamer	I'm guessing this is another one of those low usage workflow activities	06:47
@preaction	probably	06:48
+perlDreamer	I want to convert all the other classes over to Moose now	06:49
+perlDreamer	well, either that or write tests for 6 weeks non-stop	06:50
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1706747 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Fix this completely broken Workflow Activity. - http://bit.ly/bZIsPc	06:50
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3471f62 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Fix this completely broken Workflow Activity. - http://bit.ly/ceCmlw	06:50
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rcd2c1f5 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/GetSyndicatedContent.pm : Update workflow activity for wg8. - http://bit.ly/9eHw7P	06:53
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2147d7f / lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm : Update getAssetsInTrash method for wg8 instanciations and exception handling. - http://bit.ly/bXXPG2	06:55
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3e7e2c4 / lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm : And again. - http://bit.ly/bCsrWR	06:56
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r03427ee / lib/WebGUI/ProgressBar.pm : Update ProgressBar for new wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/cHZT0a	06:57
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * recc71d4 / (6 files in 3 dirs): Update Shop for new instanciators and for exception handling. - http://bit.ly/9QH7bt	07:08
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdfc388f / (2 files in 2 dirs): More Subscribable fixes. - http://bit.ly/9SPg94	07:08
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbf1cb7b / (7 files in 2 dirs): Aspect to Role renaming - http://bit.ly/cO4Ytq	07:10
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r26e50b9 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/RssFeed.pm : Fix POD typo. - http://bit.ly/a0GpLn	07:26
+perlDreamer	Haarg, preaction, the SC asset is currently broke in wg8. I'll be fixing it tomorrow.	07:26
@preaction	it's okay, nobody's gonna use the SC asset in WG8 for a while	07:26
+perlDreamer	hopefully not too long	07:29
+perlDreamer	of course, there's still all the editing interfaces to work on	07:29
+perlDreamer	but building wg8 may be one of the best things to ever happen to wg7	07:29
+perlDreamer	since we're literally crawling through all the code	07:29
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:44
+MrHairgrease	Greasings	16:45
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+patspam	morning perlDreamer	17:31
+perlDreamer	howdy, patspam	17:31
+perlDreamer	big milestone in WebGUI 8 last night	17:31
+perlDreamer	the syntax check ran clean	17:31
+perlDreamer	and Roles seem to be working for the most part	17:31
+perlDreamer	needs more testing though	17:32
SDuensin	Whaaa? Cool!	17:32
+perlDreamer	and ahead of us, is the new CHI caching infratructure	17:32
+perlDreamer	and change to automated form building in all assets	17:32
SDuensin	Is there a roadmap anywhere? Just curious as to what you're planning for 8.	17:33
+perlDreamer	there was a roadmap presented at the WUC	17:39
+perlDreamer	it's changed since then, though	17:39
+perlDreamer	you could try asking preaction, or searching through the Black Blog for the older announcements	17:39
SDuensin	I know how that is. My roadmap changes direction like a flag in a thunderstorm.	17:39
+MrHairgrease	SDuensin: http://www.webgui.org/use/wgtv/wgtv/2009-state-of-webgui#idgV-xaRzZhRqX-3hbNo5Jhw	17:40
SDuensin	Thanks! I was just headed to the TV area to look around!	17:40
+MrHairgrease	I think that the initial wg 8 roadmap was reveiled there	17:40
SDuensin	(Buffering!)	17:41
SDuensin	This is kind of an obvious URL, now that I see it... http://www.webgui.org/roadmap	17:42
ckotil	heh	17:47
SDuensin	I like this statement: "WebGUI 8 is about strengthening the platform for the future, and about improving the user experience."	17:48
SDuensin	The hardest part I have in selling WebGUI to people is the appearance. Not to be cruel, but the default look is ugly at best.	17:48
SDuensin	You put an out-of-the-box WebGUI next to something like Liferay and it just makes WebGUI look old.	17:49
SDuensin	Unfortunately, people don't realize the "problem" isn't a problem until they've run off with something else and find out it sucks. :-/	17:50
+perlDreamer	gosh, that turd sure looked purdy	18:00
+MrHairgrease	hmmm	18:00
* MrHairgrease is not sure he wants to know...		18:01
SDuensin	hehe	18:01
+MrHairgrease	and what is purdy	18:01
SDuensin	People like all the snazzy AJAXy crap.	18:02
+perlDreamer	purdy is slang for pretty	18:03
+perlDreamer	with a southern drawl	18:03
* ckotil plucks the banjo		18:03
+MrHairgrease	oh if it's pretty then I'm all ears	18:04
+MrHairgrease	tell us about the pretty turd	18:04
+perlDreamer	well, gosh, it has that nice thing where it gets all blinky	18:04
+perlDreamer	and when I start to type, it already knows what I'm going to say	18:05
+perlDreamer	all the corners are roundy	18:05
+perlDreamer	it just looks cool	18:05
SDuensin	Yes! Roundy!	18:05
* SDuensin wrote a roundy corner thing for WebGUI.		18:05
+perlDreamer	I couldn't get it to do anything useful, but it's sure purdy	18:05
+MrHairgrease	seems like general eurotrash to me	18:06
+MrHairgrease	=)	18:06
+perlDreamer	that would be a euroturd	18:06
+MrHairgrease	hehe	18:06
SDuensin	Look! Roundy test! http://allplay.jaegertech.net/	18:06
+bartjol	what, is there a generic solution for that?	18:08
+perlDreamer	yes, it's called CSS	18:08
SDuensin	I'm trying.	18:08
+MrHairgrease	hmm, the style seems to be a mix between modern realism and postapocalyptic neopurdyism	18:08
+bartjol	that'll put 30% of all webbuilders without work	18:08
+bartjol	which css?	18:09
+perlDreamer	WebGUI itself doesn't care what it looks like	18:09
+perlDreamer	it's all just styling	18:09
+MrHairgrease	bart: http://allplay.jaegertech.net/purdyroundies.css	18:09
+bartjol	nice	18:10
SDuensin	It's some javascript/css stuff I found and then I did an article template that lets you easily set the style.	18:10
+perlDreamer	I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a business of selling WebGUI style packages	18:10
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, sounds like a great thing to put in the Bazaar	18:10
SDuensin	Once it no longer sucks, sure. :-)	18:10
+perlDreamer	ah	18:11
+perlDreamer	I put up the sortable DataForm template before it was done	18:11
+perlDreamer	and some people actually fixed the bugs for me	18:11
SDuensin	Freaky.	18:11
+perlDreamer	Don't sit on it until it's perfect, otherwise it'll never get done	18:11
SDuensin	Right now, you put the extra style details in the "Summary" field of the article.	18:12
SDuensin	Just feels "hacky" to me.	18:13
+perlDreamer	why not put it in the extraHeadTags?	18:13
+perlDreamer	or in the template itself?	18:13
SDuensin	Because it's per-article.	18:14
SDuensin	WTF is Swiftysite? Google doesn't know them.	18:14
+perlDreamer	Swiftysite is someone peeling off the top of WebGUI, restyling it, and selling cheap website in the Netherlands	18:14
+perlDreamer	very, very nice people	18:14
+perlDreamer	you should come to a WUC and meet them	18:14
SDuensin	I'd like to. But they should talk to Google, too!	18:15
+perlDreamer	well, if any of the guys come into the IRC room, I'll point that out to them	18:18
+perlDreamer	hang on	18:18
+perlDreamer	when I type in swiftysite into google, it's the first result	18:18
+perlDreamer	alphamegahosting.com	18:18
+perlDreamer	that's them	18:18
+MrHairgrease	here as well	18:18
+perlDreamer	maybe SDuensin has thick fingers or something	18:18
SDuensin	Really? Trying again!	18:19
SDuensin	Ok, you guys just added it. :-P	18:20
+bartjol	yeah, we plugged into googles db	18:20
ckotil	swiftysite is powered by webgui?	18:21
ckotil	that's awesome. ive used it a time or two. dont understand a lick of it, but it makes great websites	18:21
SDuensin	hehe	18:21
+perlDreamer	yay! slow support day. I'm going to get tons of hacking done	18:24
SDuensin	HaCkInG!	18:25
+perlDreamer	well, for me, it is haCKing	18:26
SDuensin	The Wrath of Koen!	18:26
+perlDreamer	I try not to begrudge Calvin Klein the use of my initials	18:26
+bartjol	we lumberjack with it	18:26
ckotil	pd! you to?	18:26
+MrHairgrease	well, have fun with your purdy turds	18:27
* MrHairgrease is off!		18:27
* bartjol follows him on the feet		18:27
+perlDreamer	me, too ckotil	18:27
+perlDreamer	later, you Nederlanderin	18:28
+bartjol	we're male	18:28
ckotil	we share initials with the mild manner Clark Kent too	18:28
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+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease, should I have said Nederlanderer?	18:29
+MrHairgrease	Nederlanders	18:30
+MrHairgrease	and now	18:30
+MrHairgrease	its	18:30
+MrHairgrease	time	18:30
+MrHairgrease	to GO and enjoy my free time!	18:30
+MrHairgrease	woot	18:30
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r35e1e8c / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SyndicatedContent.pm : Fix SC use of RssFeed role. - http://bit.ly/bRsiNQ	18:38
SDuensin	Free time? Wazzat?	18:40
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf17fc5c / (12 files): Update Macros for wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/be1S8Z	18:48
+perlDreamer	that's when you work on Free Software projects and drink beer	18:48
SDuensin	Must be nice.	18:49
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r360acb5 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Use wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/ak9xmy	18:51
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3d9006b / (3 files in 2 dirs): Update Auth system for wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/bR4sER	18:53
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd5dd260 / (2 files in 2 dirs): More instanciator cleanup. - http://bit.ly/9iW39m	18:55
SDuensin	There he goes talking about WebGUI FS again. Evil tease!	18:56
+perlDreamer	ah, quit griping, break out yer keyboard and start hackin'	18:56
SDuensin	I know, I know!	18:57
SDuensin	I have a list of things I want to do to WebGUI that's a mile long.	18:58
SDuensin	Run CNN.com through the story manager? Does CNN know about this? :-)	18:59
mducharme-work	holy	18:59
mducharme-work	when did 7.8 go stable	18:59
SDuensin	Last week, I believe.	19:00
mducharme-work	I've been out of it for a few weeks and suddenly everything changes	19:00
mducharme-work	any gotchas for upgrading from 7.7.30 up through the current 7.8?	19:00
+perlDreamer	any known ones where fixed in 7.8.14 2 days ago	19:01
SDuensin	Yes. You have to make a stop at 7.7.33, I believe. Whatever the last 7.7.x is.	19:01
+perlDreamer	we need more brave souls to test upgrading on live sites for us	19:01
SDuensin	I was going to be brave last night, but the kids had other plans.	19:01
+perlDreamer	preaction: I'd really like to use Test::Sweet, but prove doesn't like i	19:05
+perlDreamer	it	19:05
mducharme-work	ok, upgrading to 7.7.33	19:13
+perlDreamer	SD, if you want a project to help WebGUI out, start a wiki page with a list of all known upgrade points and stop versions.	19:15
SDuensin	That'll be a short list. I only remember 7.7.33!	19:16
mducharme-work	hrm	19:25
mducharme-work	I'm trying to install Locales::Country like mentioned in the gotchas	19:25
mducharme-work	cpan says no such package found	19:25
mducharme-work	is that the wrong name for it?	19:26
@preaction	mducharme-work: just use testEnvironment.pl, if that works, Webgui will work	19:27
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mducharme-work	7.8.3 -------------------------------------------------------------------- * WebGUI now requires Locales::Country 0.05 or higher to use the UPS shipping driver.	19:30
mducharme-work	guys, that is a typo in the gotchas	19:31
mducharme-work	that should say Locale::Country	19:31
mducharme-work	I think	19:31
mducharme-work	because I'm able to install "Locale::Country" but "Locales::Country" does not exist	19:31
mducharme-work	should I open a ticket for the typo?	19:33
* SDuensin sighs - the roadmap wants to move configs out of the database and into the config files. Go the other way!		19:36
mducharme-work	oops.. not a typo, a newer gotcha says that was replaced with an older one	19:36
SDuensin	:-)	19:36
mducharme-work	this really should be simpler	19:36
mducharme-work	I hate parsing manually through gotcha files desparately trying to make sure I do not miss any perl module requirements	19:36
mducharme-work	7.8.14 here I come	19:40
SDuensin	:-)	19:41
mducharme-work	any new storymanager templates in 7.8.x by any chance??	19:42
* SDuensin has no idea.		19:46
mducharme-work	woo, everything works	19:46
mducharme-work	upgrade went very smooth	19:47
mducharme-work	now to upgrade my other client's server	19:47
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SDuensin	Sweet!	19:59
mducharme-work	all done	20:07
mducharme-work	all my servers are at 7.8.14 now	20:07
SDuensin	Nice! Now you're making me feel lazy!	20:09
+perlDreamer	mducharme-work, Locales::Country should have been replace by Locales...	20:28
+perlDreamer	let me check on that	20:28
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mducharme-work	perldreamer yeah it was but the old gotcha is still there	20:36
mducharme-work	thjat says to install Locales::Country, so I was trying to do that	20:36
+perlDreamer	hm, perhaps the newer one should be made clearer	20:36
mducharme-work	I go through the gotchas in sequence from oldest to newest when I am looking at what to upgrade	20:36
mducharme-work	so I saw the older module before the newer one	20:37
+perlDreamer	I'll put a note about the change next to the older one, as well	20:39
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r109f06c / docs/gotcha.txt : Make the replacement of Locale::Country with Locales more clear, w.r.t the 7.8.3 gotcha. - http://bit.ly/ciTQVf	20:54
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kimd	Evening, everyone!	21:47
+perlDreamer	yo, kimd	21:47
kimd	perlDreamer, I like your WNN!	21:49
kimd	Subscribed to the RSS feed yesterday.	21:49
kimd	Keep on writing!	21:49
+perlDreamer	thanks :). Unfortunately, it's languished for a long time.	21:49
kimd	You should advertise it a bit more.	21:49
+perlDreamer	When I started a year ago, I did	21:51
kimd	I must have missed that.	21:52
kimd	No readers?	21:52
+perlDreamer	no, just lack of time	21:53
+perlDreamer	when my wife started school full time, I lost lots of my spare time	21:53
kimd	Hm, spare time is a precious good.	21:54
kimd	I wished I had more.	21:54
kimd	But now to something completely unrelated:	21:54
kimd	Is there a switch statement in perl?	21:54
+perlDreamer	in 5.10 there is	21:54
@preaction	there is in 5.10, given/when	21:54
+perlDreamer	and in 5.8, there is a perl module called Switch, but it's a source filter and can suffer from performance and other issues	21:55
kimd	Does that mean I should not use it?	21:56
kimd	I mean, the Switch module?	21:57
kimd	We are still using 5.8 in the wre, correct?	21:57
@preaction	5.10 actually	21:57
@preaction	but we only require 5.8	21:58
@preaction	WebGUI 8 can require 5.10	21:58
kimd	I assume that means I should not use given/when yet?	21:59
+perlDreamer	if you want to make custom code for your own server, go ahead and use it	21:59
+perlDreamer	but any 5.10 specific features have to wait until WebGUI 8	21:59
+perlDreamer	no say, smart match, given/when, regexp improvements, etc	21:59
kimd	I see. Thanks for your answer.	22:00
+perlDreamer	it's a bummer, for sure. which is why we should all work hard on getting WebGUI 8 out as soon as possible	22:02
kimd	Just having my first git experience.	22:21
kimd	Why did we switch from svn to git? I found that svn was alright.	22:22
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kimd	Now I have to learn the next versioning tool.	22:22
kimd	Not that I want to complain...	22:23
kimd	It's all about flexibility these days.	22:23
+perlDreamer	that's one of the reasons we switched	22:23
+perlDreamer	git is very flexible, and it's incredibly fast compared to svn	22:24
+perlDreamer	there are some very nice tutorials for svn users who want to switch to git	22:24
kimd	Well, since I have no choice... Learning keeps you young, doesn't it?	22:28
+perlDreamer	Yeah, it does	22:40
+perlDreamer	although sometimes it can make you prematurely old	22:41
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r669f803 / t/Definition/Asset.t : check for get, set, update in Definition/Asset.t - http://bit.ly/crtio9	22:45
+perlDreamer	Haarg, somehow in Definition/Asset we're losing get, set and update from Definition::Role::Object	22:46
+perlDreamer	I committed a test to check that	22:46
+perlDreamer	and will soon be converting the Definition tests over to Test::Class for more robust testing up and down the chain	22:46
@Haarg	http://gist.github.com/322094 does this help?	22:48
+perlDreamer	no	22:50
+perlDreamer	and I'm kind of glad it didn't, because that would mean no composite roles	22:51
* perlDreamer takes a lunch break		22:52
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kimd	A question for the template experts:	23:07
kimd	What happens if a hash value set to undef is passed to template processors.	23:08
kimd	Will that cause problems are just result in an empty template var?	23:08
kimd	I am asking because I have a template var previousFile that may be empty if there is not previous file.	23:09
kimd	no	23:09
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kimd	Ok, let's leave this question open for today.	23:29
kimd	Good night everyone!	23:29
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--- Day changed Fri Mar 05 2010
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+perlDreamer	yo, rizen	01:14
@rizen	howdy	01:25
@rizen	sorry for the delay, just having a chat with stevan	01:26
+perlDreamer	no sweat	01:28
+perlDreamer	I was almost ready to ship you a liver	01:28
@rizen	ooh, me like liver. at least if it's from a child of no more than 12 years	01:29
+perlDreamer	this one is 11, so a little old	01:29
@rizen	still tender though	01:29
+perlDreamer	what happens at 12?	01:29
@rizen	they go sour	01:29
@rizen	at that point just grind them up and make dog food	01:29
+perlDreamer	well, the current liver owner is shaping up, so perhaps I'll have to order and the Frau some takeout Thai food	01:31
@rizen	amazing, i was just thinking that myself	01:32
+perlDreamer	lean a little closer to the screen, and I can tell you what you want, too	01:33
+perlDreamer	no, closer still	01:34
+perlDreamer	Sarah wants Pad Thai	01:34
+perlDreamer	hm	01:34
+perlDreamer	something interfering with the pickup	01:35
@rizen	actually she doesn't	01:35
@rizen	she's been getting other stuff lately	01:35
@rizen	i think she must be sick	01:35
+perlDreamer	definitely	01:35
@rizen	the pad thai is sooooooo good	01:35
+perlDreamer	Pad Khee Mao is better	01:35
@rizen	next time i'm in oregon i'll make you prove it	01:35
@rizen	gotta go	01:36
+perlDreamer	You're on.	01:36
@rizen	ttyl	01:36
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf5f1839 / (t/run_asset.t t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm): Begin converting t/Asset.t over to Test::Class - http://bit.ly/aZZ7a4	01:37
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r006bda8 / t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm : More Test::Class tests for AssetBase.pm - http://bit.ly/bykELB	02:08
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r053b5a8 / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Asset.pm : Rework get_tables to check each and every property. - http://bit.ly/dajC5c	02:08
+perlDreamer	Haarg: even if I just try to apply Definition::Role::Object in Definition/Asset, it still doesn't provide get/set/update/etc	02:09
+perlDreamer	they're not applying in Definition.pm, either	02:12
+perlDreamer	at least it's consistent	02:17
+perlDreamer	it was the d7b0d93a commit	02:23
+perlDreamer	so now we have no warnings, but no roles, either	02:23
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+patspam	how advanced is wG's static html exporting capabilities/	03:40
+patspam	?	03:40
@preaction	pretty advanced, the entire US embassy websites use it	03:41
@preaction	what do you need?	03:42
@preaction	there's even the Widget macro to get little parts of dynamic content inside all the static content	03:42
+patspam	sorry phone rang	03:58
+patspam	can it export a tree of page layouts and articles?	03:58
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@preaction	of course	04:05
* patspam reads AssetExportHtml.pm		04:06
+patspam	one day I should sit down and scan the source code from top to bottom, there's lots of stuff in here i never knew existed	04:06
@preaction	heh, yeah, there's a whole lot in there that i forget about ;)	04:15
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+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease, I thought you might be at the Dutch perl workshop today	18:06
+MrHairgrease	I was planning on going	18:07
+MrHairgrease	but I ended up staying in Delft	18:07
+MrHairgrease	Better luck next year	18:07
+MrHairgrease	and I _am_ going to the yapc	18:07
+MrHairgrease	eu that is	18:07
+perlDreamer	where is it this year?	18:10
+MrHairgrease	Pisa!	18:11
+perlDreamer	Do you drive, train or fly to get there?	18:14
+MrHairgrease	If I attach my vacation I'll prolly go by car	18:15
+MrHairgrease	otherwise I'll fly	18:15
+MrHairgrease	it's about a two day drive I gues	18:15
+perlDreamer	13 hours, 9 minutes	18:17
+MrHairgrease	too much for one day anyway	18:18
+perlDreamer	gotta go and help Kathy, bbl	18:18
+MrHairgrease	oki	18:18
+MrHairgrease	bye	18:19
+perlDreamer	she lost her phone at the train station	18:45
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@Haarg	finally figuring out POE a bit better. using it for a silly personal project.	19:14
@frodwith	POE++	19:21
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+perlDreamer	What do you all think of that post on the webgui.org forums, about the site redesign for the dating site?	20:19
+perlDreamer	SPAM, or legitimate request for help?	20:19
+perlDreamer	Haarg, what does the init_meta method do?	20:25
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3c790d9 / t/Definition.t : Add Role presence tests. - http://bit.ly/coUsoK	20:29
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * recd3158 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): Applying class metaroles before the other roles seems to do the right thing. - http://bit.ly/bjIRXl	20:29
@Haarg	it initializes the metaclass instance for the class	20:30
+perlDreamer	that's the problem	20:30
+perlDreamer	we can't apply roles yet	20:31
+perlDreamer	there's no meatclass	20:31
@Haarg	by the time our code gets called, there is a metaclass. but altering it definitely could interfere with the roles.	20:32
+perlDreamer	well, when I applied the metaclass roles first, it started working	20:32
+perlDreamer	tests pass	20:32
+perlDreamer	I'm going to add some role analysis code to the Definition tests	20:33
+perlDreamer	next question has to do with JSON in the database.	20:34
+perlDreamer	The subscribable asset does this by interfering with get and update	20:34
+perlDreamer	I was thinking that perhaps a Trait would be better	20:34
@Haarg	probably	20:36
@Haarg	not sure the best way to do that though	20:36
+perlDreamer	me either.	20:39
+perlDreamer	we could use around around each property that stores the JSON	20:40
+perlDreamer	but that seems like a hassle	20:40
+perlDreamer	coercion and via look nice, but they're only one way	21:32
+perlDreamer	you can put it in as a datastructure, but you get back JSON	21:32
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@frodwith	Trait that arounds the accessor sounds like the way to go to me.	22:56
@frodwith	why is it a hassle?	22:57
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@Haarg	i probably need to do some extra work for that. traits on properties don't work right now.	23:16
@Haarg	shouldn't be too bad to fix though.	23:16
+perlDreamer	as long as the trait puts it around the property, that's fine.	23:54
+perlDreamer	if I have to do it one by one, that's not so fine	23:54
--- Day changed Sat Mar 06 2010
+perlDreamer	I had a different idea while cooking dinner	00:00
+perlDreamer	if properties had a trait called 'should_serialize', then the write method would query the property, and then it would know whether to call the standard accessor, or the serialized accessor	00:00
+perlDreamer	that way, you can get to the raw data, and not have to jump through hoops with the write method needing to manually serialize the data	00:01
+perlDreamer	I was thinking of Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::ArrayRef::JSON	00:01
+perlDreamer	and similarly for HashRef::JSON	00:02
+perlDreamer	and then we have something we can give back to the community via CPAN	00:02
+perlDreamer	any way, I need to go pick up my sons at school	00:02
+perlDreamer	see you all later	00:02
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb5e03dd / lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm : Remove dead method with the same name as a property. - http://bit.ly/afusHD	00:42
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6f9b891 / t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm : Convert more tests over to Test::Class - http://bit.ly/bFsCFd	01:17
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r029655d / asset_status.ods : Add a sheet to track Roles. - http://bit.ly/9KVKsz	01:17
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--- Day changed Sun Mar 07 2010
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Getty	before i do something bad, can i install it via CPAN? cause the webpage "recommends" to use that but i dont know if that includes cpan way of install	03:39
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+perlDreamer	Getty, you cannot install WebGUI from CPAN.	05:09
+perlDreamer	you can download a full VM, you can download the WRE (which is basically application level install with full software stack) or you do a "source install" where you download the WebGUI source, install the modules, configure apache, mysql, set up the filesystem and run it yourself.	05:10
Getty	the middle version, please, where is the exit? ;) j/k	05:11
Getty	ok so i got already a running environment	05:11
Getty	then i should prefer the source install if i know what i do in general? ;)	05:12
Getty	i wanted to install it via CPAN on a local::lib path for the webserver vhost, so that would be then source install of modules + local::lib with the same result, right?	05:13
Getty	or is there anything special that blocks that plan?	05:13
+perlDreamer	for the WebGUI modules, no	05:16
+perlDreamer	but several of the support scripts expect to be close to the lib directory	05:16
+perlDreamer	as in ../lib only	05:16
+perlDreamer	if you know what you're doing in general, you can do a source install	05:16
+perlDreamer	although one other reason to use the WRE is performance	05:16
+perlDreamer	it sets up two different servers, one small one as reverse proxy and static file server, and one "heavy" one to handle mod_perl	05:17
Getty	but it would collide with my personal install?	05:17
+perlDreamer	you can set your environment to keep them separate, except for MySQL	05:18
+perlDreamer	it depends on what you want to do with it	05:18
+perlDreamer	if you want to tinker, a source install is best	05:18
Getty	actually microsite, private, no hits	05:18
Getty	i just want to use a perl CMS	05:18
+perlDreamer	a source install is right up your alley then	05:18
+perlDreamer	download WebGUI	05:18
Getty	and start doing what i prayed now on the cebit for 1 week	05:18
+perlDreamer	untar it in /data	05:18
+perlDreamer	run /data/WebGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl to check for requirements and/or install them	05:19
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/wiki/source-install	05:20
+perlDreamer	that page has all the gory details	05:20
Getty	cool	05:22
Getty	a little bad that noone actually told me about WebGUI before the CeBIT	05:22
+perlDreamer	Why?	05:22
Getty	cause the "CMS" stuff was a theme from time to time and we didnt had any suggestion beside Bruccolage or how its written	05:23
Getty	i was there representing perl	05:23
+perlDreamer	our promotional efforts for WebGUI wax and wane	05:24
+perlDreamer	two years ago they did the whole conference tour in the US	05:24
+perlDreamer	and came to YAPC EU in portugal last summer	05:24
Getty	oh cool, so that isnt that bad for you	05:24
+perlDreamer	no, but more users is always better	05:24
Getty	yeah but CeBIT is actually really big as you know probably	05:24
Getty	actually we took lots of contacts with us of people and companies who wanna do more with perl	05:24
Getty	and now i got WebGUI as something to show, actually with that installer process you said its really an awesome idea	05:25
Getty	but i must dive into it to REALLY value it, cause i also do own CMS activities (which i didnt promoted on CeBIT ;) ) and do the CMS agency business since the stuff is there, i'm very critic	05:26
+perlDreamer	well, feel free to come back with questions, comments and criticisms	05:26
Getty	i stay here :-P	05:26
* Getty never leaves ;)		05:26
+perlDreamer	well, feel free to say here and ask questions, too ;)	05:27
Getty	hehe ;)	05:27
Getty	its 4:30 here, at 8:30 i must getup for the "last breakfast" with all other perl dudes of cebit before we leave hannover	05:27
Getty	and i didnt slept more then 4-5 hours the last 5 days	05:28
Getty	i'm so wasted	05:28
+perlDreamer	is that pretty common for a CeBIT?	05:28
Getty	if you want to promote perl AT ALL COST, yes	05:28
Getty	i did many contacts via drinking at the after show parties	05:28
Getty	that was actually my speciality of the crew	05:28
Getty	but that way i opened up a dialog to IBM, lets see whats come out there	05:29
Getty	and russia and macedonien	05:29
+perlDreamer	cool. Someone was been adding to the Russian WebGUI translation recently, but it is still low in overall coverage	05:29
Getty	on russia i got mainly contact to research and development of russia, dont know how much "CMS" they actually need	05:30
Getty	we are also more there to open a dialog	05:30
Getty	its about knowing what is missing for more perl on business	05:30
Getty	btw: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl-Staff	05:30
+perlDreamer	cool, open-source conference staffing	05:36
Getty	i made the t-shirts and will make more for other events	05:37
Getty	i like webgui, i mean the presentation is awesome	05:42
Getty	i need sleep n8	05:44
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elnino	so. I have an article asset, with a flv and a jpg attachemnt. I was hoping I could get the flv by using attachment.url and the image by using image.url, or do I have to use the attachment loop, and chech for isimage and assume that when false, it's the flv? Make sense?	07:51
@preaction	heh, CeBIT sounds like the last WUC I was at	08:41
* preaction only missed 4 hours of presentations due to hangover		08:41
@preaction	which reminds me i have to register for the next YAPC	08:41
@preaction	elnino: use the loop, it's more reliable	08:42
elnino	ok. thanks preaction.	08:42
* preaction wishes you could just put those attachments inside the article yourself		08:42
elnino	I remember such conversation not to long ago.	08:42
@preaction	yeah, it still hurts	08:43
elnino	=)	08:43
@preaction	it will hurt until it gets fixed	08:43
@preaction	if i could nuke all of WebGUI 7 and 8 and rebuild it all from scratch...	08:43
@preaction	oh wait, i'm already doing it... http://github.com/preaction/modern-webgui	08:43
elnino	you are a very busy person.	08:44
@preaction	not really, haven't worked on that in 3 months :'(	08:47
elnino	perhaps that is true at github, but I know here you are.	08:48
@preaction	well, yeah i'm working on other stuff	08:48
elnino	I'm calling it quits. Too much fun for the weekend. Putting video site together using flowplayer. kinda cool.	08:49
@preaction	heard good things about flowplayer, but yeah, it's sunday now, get some rest sheesh	08:49
elnino	so is github the new sourceforge?	08:49
@preaction	pretty much yeah	08:49
@preaction	git is soooooo much nicer than svn	08:49
@preaction	like ten thousand percent nicer	08:50
elnino	hmm. I'll look at git later.. Good night!	08:52
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Getty	so... finally home from cebit, now i can checkout webgui and check if i can make a webpage with blog in an hour ;)	20:05
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doc777	Hello friends. We recently upgraded to 7.7.33-stable and all our log in boxes, most of the user profile boxes, and the create account boxes are at 100 pixels now. They scroll off the side of the page. This seems to be the case in admin settings as well. Did I miss something?	21:24
Getty	LOL that is really purposed that if i do: perl testEnvironment.pl --help i get the source in my viewer? ;)	21:38
Getty	ah no, i see, its a debian workaround for people who dont have perl-doc, so ok :) never came to that	21:41
doc777	Anyone know why our username boxes all went to 100 px after our upgrade? The text boxes scroll off the side the page :o)	22:23
doc777	I upgraded to 7.8.14 to see if it would help but they are still the same looks like.	22:24
Getty	damn it, the parser cant read my config	22:58
doc777	lol, there is a setting in the Admin > setting >ui now for Text Box Size and it was set to 100. After an hour of digging through templates and macros I found it :o)	22:59
Getty	bad question: does it actually require 5.8? or does it also work with 5.10	23:01
doc777	What are you trying to do? :o)	23:03
@preaction	Getty: 5.10 is fine	23:03
Getty	http://paste.debian.net/63039/	23:04
Getty	i dont get it, what he has as problem, the json itself looks fine	23:07
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@preaction	Getty: paste your config file	23:13
Getty	yeah mom	23:14
@preaction	trailing commas is usually the culprit	23:14
Getty	http://paste.debian.net/63043/	23:14
Getty	the last trailing comma?	23:14
Getty	cause i put it in cause it was also on the page	23:14
@preaction	that's your entire config file?	23:15
Getty	i do a source install	23:15
Getty	going after the help in the wiki	23:15
@preaction	yes, but you have to start from WebGUI.conf.original	23:15
@preaction	otherwise here you have no assets, no admin console items, no nothing really	23:16
Getty	AH! i missed that step	23:16
Getty	ok thta would explain it probably ;)	23:16
@preaction	also, the entire thing is a hash, so it should be surrounded with { ... }	23:16
Getty	true, but my brain is just half working, i just went after the doc	23:17
Getty	and missed one step ;)	23:17
Getty	classic	23:17
@preaction	it happens. problem is that most of this stuff is easy to determine (or easy to ask for), so we should really have a script to create site configs (and generate apache or other configs from a wg site config)	23:18
Getty	yeah its all a bit shacky, but you guys seem to concentrated on the features ;) cause it took hours to install all the modules ;)	23:20
Getty	for example i was confused that this preload script really needs a fix of the path	23:21
@preaction	yeah, that's my biggest pet peeve	23:22
Getty	OH!	23:22
Getty	now i got a problem	23:22
Getty	jhehe	23:22
Getty	i now have it working, and it directly startups the config (logical).. and i made that all on my live site hehe	23:23
Getty	i mean i stopped it now	23:23
Getty	aehm.,... mmhh.. must allow my ip only.. baeh stress....	23:23
Getty	or wait, can i force that with the adminip?	23:23
Getty	so that noone else get the admin?	23:23
Getty	i mean that init stuff	23:23
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@preaction	i think that's what that is for	23:24
Getty	ok lets see	23:24
@preaction	and when you change config, remember to restart apache	23:24
Getty	bad to test hehe	23:25
Getty	its stopped right now anyway	23:25
Getty	spectre actually only uses spectre.conf right?	23:25
Getty	so restarting of him is not often required? or what is the regular way to go for him?	23:26
Getty	dont know what that daemon does	23:26
@preaction	no, it reads the other configs to know where to go, but unless you change the sitename or spectreIp or spectreSubnets you don't need to restart spectre	23:26
@preaction	spectre is the offline execution engine, like cronjobs but also things that take too long to do in realtime with the user waiting for a page response	23:26
Getty	ah nice idea	23:27
Getty	does it really use IKC? cause i saw that module on the list of required stuff	23:28
@preaction	yes, in order to pull status requests from outside (using the same spectre.pl script you can get the status of spectre)	23:28
Getty	it doesnt work with the admin subnet	23:31
Getty	i tried it with lynx on the server and still so the init config :-/	23:32
@preaction	oh, the admin bar doesn't work with lynx, it's javascript-only	23:32
@preaction	admin mode requires javascript	23:32
@preaction	however, a quick ssh tunnel could fix that up for you	23:32
@preaction	that's usually what i do when i need to get around The Big Firewall to administer some stuff	23:33
Getty	wait wait	23:35
Getty	i'm still at the config	23:35
Getty	first startup	23:35
Getty	that i wanted to have blocked to a specific IP	23:36
Getty	cause i do that all here on a live system (my private site, so who cares)	23:36
Getty	but i got regulary hits	23:36
Getty	dont want someone else to config my stuff ;)	23:36
Getty	now i made allow/deny in the apache2	23:36
Getty	wowowowowoowowowowoww	23:47
Getty	that stuff is heavy	23:47
Getty	awesome work	23:47
Getty	i'm impressed	23:47
Getty	right now i just got total overflow, now idea where to start really	23:49
Getty	but ok it runs... ;)	23:49
Getty	but the admin menu is totally confusing and actually now i got even an error about the display	23:52
@preaction	https://www.plainblack.com/services/training/webgui-primer <- free webgui primer might help	23:55
@preaction	but the error, pastebin that and i'll see what's up	23:55
Getty	its just displaying error, the cascading failed, or it was just to slow loading, dont know, didnt happened so far	23:58
Getty	but the menu is confusing, that always the left side "goes away" and you stand in the middle of nowhere	23:58
Getty	actually i have totally no idea how i edit the menu so remove add new files there or delete the existing one	23:59
Getty	ah that is no error	23:59
Getty	if i watch the navigation emnu .. yeah ok.. i get it	23:59
--- Day changed Mon Mar 08 2010
Getty	ey is there a "make anything empty" button? ;) lol	00:00
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Getty	re good morning and all :) more activity now?	10:36
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SDuensin	Greetings.	18:13
+perlDreamer	Hey, SDuensin	18:14
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+perlDreamer	preaction: what kind of evaluation did you do with HTML::Packer when used with HTML::Template?	19:02
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+perlDreamer	bartjol: I did some remodeling work this weekend.	19:26
+perlDreamer	I still hurt	19:26
+perlDreamer	No pictures are available, either	19:27
+bartjol	ah,	19:27
+bartjol	how did it hurt?	19:27
+bartjol	on your eyes?	19:27
+perlDreamer	no, crawling on rafters in the attic	19:28
+perlDreamer	hands, knees, elbows	19:29
+perlDreamer	neck, back, legs	19:29
+bartjol	aah	19:31
+perlDreamer	I needed to reroute some electricity to a new outlet	19:32
+perlDreamer	for a new microwave	19:32
+bartjol	in the big hole in the wall	19:32
+perlDreamer	because we killed the old microwave by putting it on a heavily loaded circuit	19:32
+perlDreamer	fortunately, no big holes	19:32
+bartjol	I thought you made the hole, to fit the microwave in	19:33
+perlDreamer	we took out part of a cabinet	19:33
+perlDreamer	this weekend, during the install, I'll take some pictures	19:33
+bartjol	nice	19:34
+bartjol	I mainly stuggled with a driver today, but I won!	19:34
+perlDreamer	driver? Van, bus, bicycle or car?	19:37
+bartjol	bluetooth computer driver	19:38
dionak	are you remodeling your kitchen perlDreamer?	19:38
+perlDreamer	we are adding a new microwave over the stove	19:38
+bartjol	but I'm off, have fun	19:38
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dionak	we're prepping to gut our entire kitchen at home. maybe starting april or may	19:44
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dreamersgirl	it's quiet today.	20:13
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+perlDreamer	dionak, we'd like to do that too	21:04
+perlDreamer	something about rough finished plywood cabinetry from the '60s is just not that appealing anymore :)	21:04
dionak	yea, we're feeling the same perlDreamer.	21:06
dionak	must have been cool & hip at the time	21:06
* perlDreamer is thinking "cheap", "quick" and "easy"		21:07
+perlDreamer	none of the cabinet or drawer faces have trim work. so the plywood has chipped	21:07
dionak	we've already done the cheap, quick and easy. it's time to do a bigger overhaul so we can quit getting annoyed by not being able to walk through the kitchen when the fridge is open. ;)	21:13
dionak	it's going to be an undertaking to say the least..	21:13
dionak	quick question...	21:13
dionak	could the upgrade of WebGUI be enhanced to check to see if tables exist before trying to create them?	21:14
dionak	seems like that would make upgrading easier	21:14
+perlDreamer	it would certainly help with repeating upgrades, or handling hand backported code	21:15
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+perlDreamer	and it would be more of an enforcement check than anything	21:16
+perlDreamer	since so many different authors contribute code	21:17
+perlDreamer	we'd have to review the table insert code by hand	21:17
dionak	you mean table create?	21:17
+perlDreamer	yes	21:18
dionak	true...	21:18
+perlDreamer	are you still having upgrade hiccups?	21:18
dionak	i'm thinking that before anything is done, a sub should execute to check that any table creations do not already exist	21:18
dionak	yes	21:18
dionak	damn thing is working now when it should be broken. ;)	21:19
+perlDreamer	I hate it when that happens	21:19
dionak	lol, yea	21:19
+perlDreamer	like when I do electrical work at home, and it works the first time	21:19
+perlDreamer	I don't know whether to be proud, or suspicious...	21:19
dionak	exactly!	21:19
dionak	or if it will come back to bite me later	21:20
+perlDreamer	yeah	21:20
+perlDreamer	Am I having deja vu, or didn't we talk about this last week or so?	21:20
+perlDreamer	the solution was to drop the database before rerunning the upgrade	21:20
+perlDreamer	since importing the backup code will not remove the new tables	21:21
dionak	yea, we did. this is the first chance i've had to work on it. it's more of a data corruption issue with orphaned assetIds in the db	21:21
dionak	i've been writing a script to find orphans so i can address them and either 1) find a home or 2) remove them	21:21
dionak	.. by either	21:21
dionak	e.g. - there's an entry in assetData but not asset for an ID	21:22
+perlDreamer	seems like there are so many cases	21:22
+perlDreamer	asset, but not assetData	21:22
+perlDreamer	assetData, but not Asset	21:22
+perlDreamer	... not Wobject	21:22
dionak	yes	21:22
+perlDreamer	or not table specific	21:22
+perlDreamer	or in those tables, but not asset;	21:22
+perlDreamer	and the worst will be Photo, or Newsletter	21:23
dionak	why's that?	21:23
+perlDreamer	since they are Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo (4 tables)	21:23
dionak	ugh	21:23
+perlDreamer	Asset/Wobect/Collaboration/Newsletter (also 4 tables)	21:23
dionak	ok, now you're just pushing me away perlDreamer :/	21:24
+perlDreamer	no, I don't mean to do that	21:24
dionak	kidding	21:24
dionak	it's a pita	21:24
dionak	(not kidding)	21:24
+perlDreamer	exactly	21:24
+perlDreamer	one of the wg8 suggestions was to flatten the tables	21:25
+perlDreamer	and make them non-, uh	21:25
+perlDreamer	hm	21:25
+perlDreamer	unnormalized	21:25
dionak	what about innodb?	21:25
+perlDreamer	innodb is slower in performance, I believe	21:25
+perlDreamer	the goal of this was actually to speed it up	21:25
+perlDreamer	by not spreading the data across several tables and thereby dropping the joins	21:26
+perlDreamer	I want to say it was 8x faster	21:26
dionak	how much slower is it to work with given the added complexity? or does it make it simplier?	21:26
+perlDreamer	it's simpler	21:27
+perlDreamer	writing only writes to 1 table	21:27
+perlDreamer	and reading only reads from 1 table	21:27
+perlDreamer	no joins	21:27
+perlDreamer	searching is now much more difficult	21:27
dionak	ls	21:27
dionak	oops	21:27
dionak	i definitely think that asset and assetData could collapse	21:28
dionak	theoretically	21:29
+perlDreamer	wouldn't it be weird to have versioned and unversioned data in the same table?	21:31
dionak	hm, you're right	21:33
dionak	i have a script now that mostly figures out orphaned data. going to test it on a staging server now	21:33
* dionak needs coffee		21:36
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd0884af / (10 files in 3 dirs): Do not remove newlines from Templates (or Snippets) since HTML::Packer does not handle newlines with H::T syntax. Fixes bug #11458 - http://bit.ly/du0jQ9	21:39
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1e4fb86 / (10 files in 3 dirs): Do not remove newlines from Templates (or Snippets) since HTML::Packer does not handle newlines with H::T syntax. Fixes bug #11458 - http://bit.ly/ayCW6v	21:39
+perlDreamer	Haarg, it happened again, only backwards this time	21:41
+perlDreamer	on the 7.7 upgrade, since there was no import node in the package none of the isPackage or isDefault properties were set	21:42
+perlDreamer	now, since there is an import node, EVERY asset below import had isPackage turned off, and isDefault set to 1	21:43
+perlDreamer	what we need is metadata out of the package	21:45
+perlDreamer	a list of all assetIds that it touched	21:45
+perlDreamer	and then we post process those alone	21:46
+perlDreamer	so it no uses lineage at all	21:46
+perlDreamer	we could also add more options to importAssetData, like "clearPackageFlag" and "setDefaultTemplate"	21:53
+perlDreamer	Haarg, preaction, I'm leaning pretty heavily toward adding options. In lieu of any feedback, I'll decide when I come back from a run.	22:01
@preaction	the options sounds fine to me	22:01
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--- Day changed Tue Mar 09 2010
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CIA-58	webgui: Luke Robinson master * rc61e745 / (8 files in 4 dirs): An Ajax check on the username field at registration - http://bit.ly/9aF0WD	01:25
CIA-58	webgui: Luke Robinson master * rc03bcc3 / (3 files in 3 dirs):	01:25
CIA-58	webgui: use the FormHelper instead of the Auth system for the Ajax check	01:25
CIA-58	webgui: on Username - http://bit.ly/az9kKr	01:25
CIA-58	webgui: Luke Robinson master * r240eb10 / www/extras/form/fieldCheck.js : call getWebguiProperty('extrasURL') - http://bit.ly/ckBI7A	01:25
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CIA-58	webgui: Doug Bell master * rc8ad650 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : added changelog entry - http://bit.ly/9OFNuE	01:29
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rcf43e5e / (6 files in 3 dirs): Reset the isDefault flag on core assets only, and provide a final way fix this crap once and for all. - http://bit.ly/9KUaFI	02:32
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3113905 / (3 files): Prune duplicate code for post package work. - http://bit.ly/9GqmMQ	02:32
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r84704d2 / (4 files): Fix syntax errors, and remove duplicate code from the skeleton. - http://bit.ly/9Lebud	02:32
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfe31cc9 / (5 files in 3 dirs): Reset the isDefault flag on core assets only, and provide a final way fix this crap once and for all. - http://bit.ly/dBPDML	02:37
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdf31846 / (2 files): Prune duplicate code for post package work. - http://bit.ly/ahh2Zb	02:37
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2053d3e / (3 files): Fix syntax errors, and remove duplicate code from the skeleton. - http://bit.ly/dbNxFm	02:37
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r35492ca / (3 files in 2 dirs): Remove old WebGUI 7.7 files - http://bit.ly/9yt3Vo	02:37
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CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8f95101 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Allow the default Search root to be overridden by a form variable. Adds RFE #11460. - http://bit.ly/bPBryq	03:09
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:25
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+bartjol	morning scott	16:30
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+bartjol	cool, someone tried to sell us virtual servers	17:59
+perlDreamer	bartjol, you _need_ virtual servers	17:59
+perlDreamer	they are so much better than real servers	18:00
+bartjol	well, we need them allright, otherwise we haven't got anything to sell	18:00
+bartjol	oh, and a conscience question: which bathroom looks better, mine, or Tavis's?	18:01
+perlDreamer	I've never been in Tavis's bathroom, so I couldn't say	18:02
+perlDreamer	is he advertising it somewhere?	18:02
+perlDreamer	you bathroom is much better than any of mine, however	18:02
+bartjol	it was also on facebook	18:02
+bartjol	any of yours....	18:03
+bartjol	patser	18:03
+perlDreamer	bartjol, I don't have a facebook account	18:03
+bartjol	your wife has	18:03
+bartjol	just hack into her account	18:03
+perlDreamer	afaik, hacking (even into a wife's account) is illegal	18:04
Getty	legal, illegal....	18:04
Getty	"details"	18:04
+bartjol	smetails	18:04
+perlDreamer	legal, illegal	18:04
+perlDreamer	good, evil	18:04
+perlDreamer	matter, antimatter	18:05
+perlDreamer	polar opposites	18:05
Getty	jedi, sith	18:05
+perlDreamer	now, dead vs partially dead is about details	18:05
Getty	its not all black & white, be darth vader!	18:05
+perlDreamer	or should I say "mostly dead"	18:05
Getty	hey, i installed btw webgui now	18:05
+bartjol	mostly harmless	18:05
Getty	directly run into one big "security" problem	18:05
+bartjol	ah	18:05
Getty	about first time install	18:05
+bartjol	which is?	18:05
Getty	i'm a geek, so i used my own live site for the direct install, so.... must i talk further?	18:06
+bartjol	mmm	18:06
Getty	i had to make Allow/Deny stuff	18:06
Getty	to prevent others from reaching my vhost	18:06
Getty	the admin-network setting doesnt work for the install	18:06
+bartjol	in modproxy you mean?	18:06
Getty	with apache stuff, is that modproxy? dont know	18:07
+bartjol	yes	18:07
Getty	<Directory /> Deny....	18:07
Getty	you know what i mean	18:07
+bartjol	yeah	18:07
Getty	i tried before with the admin-network setting in webgui	18:07
Getty	and tested	18:07
Getty	but this doesnt protect it	18:07
+bartjol	is that a default apache directive?	18:09
Getty	no no i mean in webgui.conf	18:13
Getty	there i can setup an admin-network-range	18:13
Getty	this is ignored for install, which is bad if you do it directly on a known site	18:13
+bartjol	well, if you set such a thing, you want it to work	18:15
+bartjol	I haven't used that option yet	18:15
+perlDreamer	except it doens't cover that	18:15
+perlDreamer	"admin network" is the network setting that allows/prevents people to go into Admin mode	18:16
+perlDreamer	it does not cover setup/install	18:16
+bartjol	ooh	18:16
+perlDreamer	but that sounds like a good feature to add	18:16
+perlDreamer	Getty, development for our next version is currently open, so if you want to file an RFE at webgui.org/rfe, it will be considered	18:16
+perlDreamer	of course, RFEs filed with patches are much more likely to get added more quickly	18:17
+bartjol	well, since that is always on a port 60834, we open that only in our firewall for ourselves, which might not be very save as default	18:17
+perlDreamer	bartjol, this is WebGUI install, not wreconsole	18:17
+bartjol	ah	18:17
+bartjol	I thought that used the same port, learned something again	18:18
+perlDreamer	no, all that stuff is served over port 80 via a content handler	18:18
+bartjol	ah	18:18
+bartjol	well, then it isn't a very save feature	18:19
-!- stDavid [~stDavid@static-72-64-138-146.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzzzzz]		18:19
+perlDreamer	maybe we should consider it a bug	18:19
+perlDreamer	it seems low risk, since you have a limited window of opportunity	18:20
+bartjol	but I always do a "mail to all" when I install webgui	18:20
+bartjol	sorry	18:20
+bartjol	time of day I suppose	18:21
Getty	perlDreamer: i'm involved into many projects and go more and more into the "oh dudes i fill up your bugtracker all day so that you will hate me" dude, even tho i dont see much wrong on your side so far	18:22
Getty	the other "big problem" i see and which you probably already know is your <censored> admin interface	18:22
Getty	its totally confusing where to find what and if you edit something its different again, that is a bit chaotic	18:23
Getty	i think this has historical reasons ;)	18:23
Getty	but dudes, when i started this stuff now, i want to startup clean, or lets say, i want to setup step by step what i want, that premade site confuses me.... i worked with some commercial CMS with generally followed your concept of coordination for the data, so its all very clear i think when i get into the first steps	18:25
+perlDreamer	Getty, I'm not sure what you mean by "when you edit something it's different again"	18:26
+perlDreamer	and we never hate people who file bugs	18:27
+perlDreamer	if more people filed bugs, WebGUI would be better	18:27
+bartjol	perlDreamer loves to solve bugs, he eats them for breakfast	18:27
Getty	yeah and i will fill bugs, but i think its a good choice, even tho i got my own concepts running, WebGUI should be something that gives a "second leg"	18:27
Getty	hehehe	18:27
Getty	yummie	18:27
+perlDreamer	the only problem we've had in the past is what some people consider bugs are really enhancements	18:27
+perlDreamer	and if so, we move them to the RFE board instead of the bug board	18:28
Getty	oh i think i will make the definitions right at that point, doing that stuff long enough	18:28
Getty	but so tell me... how i would actually get my site empty and can start defining "first page"? or probably i could say what i want in final cause i dont need much	18:28
Getty	but i made so much contacts on the cebit and need definitly fast a good page best with a perl CMS so that i can also promote that i did it with WebGUI	18:29
Getty	someone else just suggested me FosWIKI and i dont want to go with kindergarten stuff, i'm enterprise (even for my homepage) hehe	18:29
+bartjol	in the settings you can define your homepage	18:29
+perlDreamer	to clear the default content, log in as an admin	18:29
+perlDreamer	turn on admin mode	18:29
+perlDreamer	go to Assets	18:29
+perlDreamer	go to the Root node	18:29
+perlDreamer	select the home page	18:30
+perlDreamer	and trash it	18:30
Getty	sounds like a plan	18:30
+perlDreamer	that will remove all the default content	18:30
+bartjol	and empty the trash, that's looks nice for your lineage	18:30
Getty	good :)	18:30
+perlDreamer	and frees up the URLs, too	18:30
+perlDreamer	good call bartjol	18:30
+bartjol	Getty: you will get stuck with those articles on each site you add	18:30
Getty	mh?	18:31
Getty	dont get that you wanna say with this?	18:31
Getty	oh	18:31
Getty	yes	18:31
+bartjol	ah, that every time you add a site	18:31
Getty	you mean its there on every startup	18:31
Getty	yeah logical :)	18:31
+bartjol	those articles will be there to be deleted	18:31
+bartjol	indeed :)	18:31
Getty	but i think i can bring on a WebGUI module which gives me the chance to say: hey i want my own startup definition, right?	18:32
+bartjol	sure you can make that	18:32
Getty	see, problem solved	18:32
Getty	technology owns!	18:32
+perlDreamer	you'd have to alter create.sql	18:32
+perlDreamer	so it's a little more complex than that	18:32
+bartjol	but after an upgrade the default file is overridden	18:32
Getty	i would actually modify the install procedure that way	18:32
+perlDreamer	it would be better to run a post-install script that does the dirty work for you	18:32
+bartjol	well, I considered that part as logical for a geek :P	18:33
+perlDreamer	removing the default content, and installing some other package	18:33
+bartjol	that would be a lovely script	18:33
Getty	well as professional i would consider as most luxury if i could define my own "install procedure way" which also automatically installs the DB tables without doing any create.sql insert by my own	18:33
Getty	yeah i'm the one with the evil wishes	18:34
+perlDreamer	no, other people have wished for that as well	18:34
Getty	can we actually do this with a module?	18:34
+perlDreamer	no	18:34
Getty	or would that go to deep?	18:34
Getty	so its a bug	18:34
Getty	lol	18:34
+perlDreamer	the default content is installed with create.sql	18:34
+perlDreamer	along with the default users, groups, templates, css, settings, etc.	18:35
* bartjol is thinking utility script		18:35
Getty	yeah but i dont want to put the create.sql myself	18:35
Getty	i'm lazy	18:35
+perlDreamer	that's what the WRE is for :)	18:35
Getty	i want to give him database user/password and he does that for me	18:35
+perlDreamer	addsite.pl	18:35
+bartjol	he? JT?	18:35
Getty	yeah but i'm also offering it on my own facilities ;)	18:35
Getty	even tho i LOVE the idea of WRE	18:36
+perlDreamer	that's the tradeoff you make	18:36
Getty	its awesome	18:36
+perlDreamer	but I'm sure the WRE utilities could be changed to work outside the WRE	18:37
+bartjol	but goodday to you sirs	18:38
Getty	ok i will go to the bank now and then get some red bull	18:38
+perlDreamer	later, house-hacker	18:38
Getty	then i will try that with cleaning up the content	18:38
Getty	andstartup my site	18:38
+bartjol	someone elses house today	18:38
-!- bartjol [~bartjol@kantoor.procolix.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]		18:38
Getty	perlDreamer: you stay here? ;)	18:39
* perlDreamer will be in and out all day long		18:39
+perlDreamer	I go the gym, then work	18:39
+perlDreamer	eat lunch, then work	18:39
+perlDreamer	pick up the children from school, then work	18:39
+perlDreamer	fix dinner, then work	18:39
+perlDreamer	it's PWM for employment	18:39
Getty	i'm fat, no gym	18:40
Getty	i got a dude who cooks for me, eating at computer	18:40
Getty	i dont have kids	18:40
Getty	and i also work from home	18:40
Getty	so.. actually	18:40
Getty	why i stand up? oh yes toilet	18:40
+perlDreamer	and to get red bull	18:40
Getty	yes!	18:40
Getty	but thats flying ;)	18:40
Getty	so back on track	18:52
Getty	ok i startup the WebGUI again on my site	18:52
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rf4f3f0c / (2 files in 2 dirs): Handle the edge case when a subscription group has been deleted, but the the Subscribable entry has not been cleaned up. Fixes bug #11456. - http://bit.ly/b9aiWr	18:52
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf55acec / (2 files in 2 dirs): Handle the edge case when a subscription group has been deleted, but the the Subscribable entry has not been cleaned up. Fixes bug #11456. - http://bit.ly/aOVFUI	18:53
CIA-58	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r58c25e3 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Fix changelog formatting. - http://bit.ly/daFOmB	18:53
Getty	now its suddenly german?!	19:02
Getty	i dont get it, when i installed it, i choosed german, then it was german, then it was suddenly english everything and now its german again... mh	19:02
+perlDreamer	Getty, language settings are user dependent	19:03
Getty	i just used one user so far	19:04
Getty	on the default install	19:04
Getty	what is the root node? isnt it "getting started"?	19:04
Getty	cause deleting that one wasnt any effect	19:04
+perlDreamer	no, go into the Admin Console and select Assets	19:04
Getty	yeah	19:04
Getty	i am there	19:04
+perlDreamer	On the top there's a crumb trail. Choose Root	19:05
Getty	AH!	19:05
Getty	a bit small ok get it	19:05
Getty	Home then delete ok	19:05
+perlDreamer	then Admin Console->Trash	19:05
+perlDreamer	then select and purge	19:05
Getty	wait	19:05
Getty	its still there	19:05
Getty	yeah tried it again	19:06
Getty	no effect	19:06
Getty	clicked on "Home" then Delete	19:06
+perlDreamer	check your log files	19:06
Getty	and he does something	19:06
Getty	you say that so easy mom	19:06
+perlDreamer	sorry, standard user debug flow	19:07
Getty	webgui.log doesnt throws an error	19:07
Getty	i had to search where i have put the logfile ;) i did the install 2 days ago	19:07
+perlDreamer	it's the log level, it's set too high	19:07
+perlDreamer	the problem is that /home is set to be the default page for the site	19:07
+perlDreamer	create some other page for now, in the Settings, choose the other page	19:08
+perlDreamer	then it will let you delete the default content	19:08
Getty	ok	19:08
+perlDreamer	either that, or just delete all content below the home page	19:08
+perlDreamer	takes more clicks	19:08
Getty	ok i made a new page	19:09
Getty	but it doesnt have the "+"	19:09
Getty	i think that is what it needs, or?	19:09
Getty	ah no that is just there is something under it, ok	19:09
Getty	now i'M getting it	19:10
+perlDreamer	right, + means the asset has children	19:10
+perlDreamer	have you downloaded and read the WebGUI Starter guide?	19:10
Getty	http://www.raudssus.de/ :D	19:11
Getty	i want to ;)	19:11
+perlDreamer	that gives me a 403 error	19:12
Getty	oh yes wait	19:12
Getty	reload ;)	19:12
+perlDreamer	much better	19:15
+perlDreamer	now, go to the marketplace page on webgui.org and download a good looking style to install	19:16
* perlDreamer goes to the gym for punishment		19:16
Getty	have fun	19:16
Getty	mh	19:18
Getty	where to upload it now	19:18
Getty	i always get error on extracting :-/	19:26
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+perlDreamer	Getty, if the package is very old, it may not work on recent WebGUI's	20:17
+perlDreamer	also, it would be good to examine the log files to see what the problem was	20:18
+perlDreamer	a very common user problem is permissions on the upload directory	20:18
+perlDreamer	the upload directory and all children need to be writable by the apache process owner	20:18
Getty	i had it now with 2 themes	20:21
Getty	actually the only 2 themes which i like really	20:21
Getty	mh ok probably its just that	20:21
Getty	let me check log	20:22
Getty	yes it is that ;)	20:22
Getty	AH! wait!	20:22
Getty	he suggest wrong path	20:22
Getty	ok got it	20:22
Getty	damn it again	20:23
+perlDreamer	a whole series from Damian about vim scripting: http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2010/03/whats-the-mad-doctor-doing.html	20:28
Getty	i dont get this step: Click on the "class icon" of the page layout asset that is your home page. The Layout asset is very similar to a page and has an icon on the far left side of the edit toolbar that resembles a piece of paper. If you hover over this icon, it will say "Page Layout". This icon is called the "class icon"	20:28
Getty	i'm at the page layout asset, and edited it but i dont see that piece of paper icon?	20:28
+perlDreamer	It's a little obtuse	20:31
+perlDreamer	The class icon is displayed with the other toolbar icons	20:31
+perlDreamer	cut, copy, paste, delete, make shortcut, edit	20:31
+perlDreamer	if you actually edit it, you won't get the class icon with the drop down menu	20:31
+perlDreamer	that will be changed in WebGUI 8	20:31
@preaction	did we fix the bug that puts "HASH(0xDEADBEEF)" : null, in the config files?	20:37
@preaction	looks like it's in the macros part	20:38
@preaction	there's also a "null" in the workflowActivities part	20:38
+perlDreamer	we did fix that bug	20:39
@preaction	you know, why the hell do we define which macros and workflow activities ARE in the config, when we should be defining the ones that AREN'T	20:39
+perlDreamer	it's just historical	20:39
Getty	i still cant see it, but i must reboot my PC now have to cleanup my mess of desk, i be back in 5 minutes, if you could have a screenshot which links to the icon it would be awesome LOL ;)	20:40
Getty	so bbl	20:40
+perlDreamer	if you want a "lean site", you'll exclude a lot	20:40
+perlDreamer	it's just another aspect of the same problem	20:40
@preaction	but most people don't want that, ever	20:40
@preaction	the most likely configuration is "everything installed"	20:40
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't assume that	20:41
+perlDreamer	preaction, which site are you seeing the bad config data?	20:41
@preaction	our config file has 715 lines in it	20:41
@preaction	this is for PIRG	20:41
@preaction	over SEVEN HUNDRED LINES in the config file	20:41
+perlDreamer	that's because they have a bunch of CDN stuff in it	20:42
@preaction	WebGUI.conf.original has over 1000 lines	20:42
+perlDreamer	the macros HASH bug was fixed in 7.8.14	20:42
ckotil	662 /data/WebGUI/etc/globalnoc.iu.edu.conf	20:42
+perlDreamer	that's with documentation	20:42
@preaction	the point being if this was a perl module, i'd be ripping it to shreds right now	20:43
@preaction	and to hell with debian's default editor of "nano"...	20:46
+perlDreamer	The Underground style from the bazaar is very nice	20:48
@preaction	don't thank me, thank the guy who designed it. i just put it into webgui	20:48
+perlDreamer	that's another bummer bout the bazaar, no attribution of authorship	20:50
+perlDreamer	at one point, wasn't there a "more by <username>" link?	20:51
Getty	re	21:00
Getty	btw are you guys actually interested bringing WebGUI to a (Free) Cloud Service?	21:00
+perlDreamer	WebGUI is already being used in a Cloud Service	21:01
+perlDreamer	people run it on EC2	21:01
Getty	ah ok, the cloud service i talk about is making it very easy to manage anything, its really cool kodingen.com	21:02
Getty	its at the startup, but they have "drag & drop" install of stuff (like wordpress, drupal and so on)	21:03
Getty	i just imagin