WebGUI irc logs from: 2010-03.log

--- Log opened Mon Mar 01 00:00:51 2010
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SDuensin_AH HA!  Got rid of him!16:38
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Diggyhi, folks.  hope at least 1 webgui dev is here17:27
SDuensinProbably more like a dozen.17:27
DiggyQ - are there any plans to produce an up-to-date webgui VM?17:27
Diggya dozen!  yikes17:28
Diggyperhaps a VM for the 7.8 series?17:29
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SDuensinHey perlDreamer!17:29
+perlDreamerbartjol, you are excused from all current, future and past comments about LOI17:29
SDuensinDiggy has a good question...17:29
+perlDreamerDiggy, what's your question this morning?17:30
SDuensinAny chance of the VM being updated for 7.8?17:30
Diggyabout plans for an updated webgui VM17:30
Diggylast vm was done in early '09, IIRC17:30
bartjolperlDreamer: so no more info needed, too bad... 17:30
+perlDreamerthe VM can be updated manually by downloading the current one and running the webgui updater17:30
+perlDreamerbartjol, what's the red thing?17:31
bartjolan expension barrel for the heating17:31
Diggyunfortunately, my attempts at updating it have failed17:31
SDuensinDiggy - Oh?  How so?17:31
+perlDreamerhow are you updating it, Diggy?17:31
+perlDreamerand what errors do you get?17:31
Diggywith the wre.  it's been a while since i last tried17:31
+perlDreameryou can only update via the WRE if you stay up to date with it17:32
Diggyagain, apologies, as it's been a while since i tried to upgrade17:32
+perlDreamerotherwise, you have to manually download and upgrade17:32
+perlDreamerit wouldn't hurt us to update that, though17:33
SDuensinYou should be able to run the webguiupdate script and then the testEnvironment script.17:33
+perlDreamerSD, not really17:33
+perlDreamerwebguiupdate is not smart enough to stop at the right points17:33
+perlDreamerit downloads the latest and greatest and tries that17:33
+perlDreamerwhich will fail miserably17:33
Diggyi did use the script.  IRC channel users helped me, but in the end, failure :-(17:33
* SDuensin sighs17:33
+perlDreamerso, if you start at 7.6.3217:33
+perlDreameryou update to 7.6.3517:33
+perlDreamerthen 7.7.3317:34
+perlDreamerthen 7.8.1317:34
SDuensinGlad I had this little talk prior to going to 7.8.x.  :-)17:34
bartjolah, scott, you need some other talks?17:34
+perlDreamerI wonder if the wiki has that little gem of info17:34
+perlDreamerthere is an open bug to fix that17:34
SDuensinbartjol, I need all the help I can get.  :-D17:35
Diggyare you recommending that i try that sequence?17:35
+perlDreamerDiggy, sure17:35
+perlDreameralso, Diggy, would you please file a bug about updating the VM?17:35
Diggyok.  will try (as soon as time permits :-) ), and report back17:36
+perlDreamerthat will raise it to the attention of the proper people17:36
Diggysure, i'll file a bug report17:36
Diggythanks, and ttfn17:36
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SDuensinThere's too many interesting cool package formats out there.  I want WebGUI in all of them for people!17:37
SDuensinVMware appliance, OpenVZ template, that application standard thing - not to mention the usual DEB, RPM, etc.17:37
+perlDreamerbartjol, in the -930 picture, what are all those pipes for?17:42
+perlDreamerdoesn't a sink have hot, cold, and drain, and that's it?17:42
bartjoleeeh, i'll have a look17:43
bartjoland then make fun of you17:44
* perlDreamer braces for public humiliation17:44
bartjolwell, that's my heating thingy17:44
+perlDreamerso that's not the bottom of the sink17:45
+perlDreamermakes much more sense17:45
bartjolso it has to have piping for gas, cold water (in), warm water (out) heating in and out17:45
* perlDreamer will take the children to school, and ponder more17:45
bartjol955 is the sink17:45
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+perlDreamerbartjol: I knew that 955 was the sink, but 930 looks like it's from the same place, in the corner17:57
bartjolit is more just above 95218:00
bartjolor better maybe: http://www.bartjol.nl/home/fotoalbums/fortos/klus20091116/dsc0067818:01
+perlDreamerah, yes18:06
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+perlDreamerwe have one of those tankless water heaters, too18:12
+perlDreamervery efficient18:12
SDuensinDatabase design hurts my head.18:15
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r587f080 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Subscribable aspect should propagate result of purge, instead of always returning false. Fixes bug #11446 - http://bit.ly/97WdkX18:31
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb462ce0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Subscribable aspect should propagate result of purge, instead of always returning false. Fixes bug #11446 - http://bit.ly/bSzWKC18:31
+perlDreamerpreaction: ping18:42
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+perlDreamerpatspam, you up for a dev level idea bouncing talk?18:45
+perlDreamerit's the spectre bug18:46
+perlDreamerwith the mail workflow18:46
+patspamgot the number on hand?18:46
+perlDreamertwo of them18:46
+perlDreamerthis is the "latest" one: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/1144418:46
+perlDreamerand here's the historical one: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/1018918:47
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+patspamyep, I've experienced that too18:49
+perlDreamerokay, so this is my theory18:49
+perlDreamerSpectre recognizes that it's time to run the cron job18:49
+perlDreamerand calls www_runCronJob in Operation/Cron18:49
+perlDreamerwww_runCronJob builds an instance of the workflow18:50
+perlDreamerand tries to talk to spectre18:50
+perlDreamerbut it can't18:50
+perlDreamerthe instance is NEVER cleaned up18:50
+perlDreamerso it sits in the db, blocking all further invocations, since it's a singleton workflow18:50
+perlDreamerthe core problem seems to be that the return value of $instance->start(1) is not checked18:51
+patspamI've never really trawled through the spectre code, but that sounds reasonable18:52
+perlDreamerI'll see if I can outfit a few sites with some test code, and then disable their spectre restart cron cobs18:53
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+perlDreamerif this is right, there's about 1 day of spectre relating hacking that needs to be done19:00
+perlDreamersince none of the spectre comm code returns a status19:00
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+patspamsorry, doing some bug triaging here too19:03
+patspamthe kind where people report something, and then when you look everything appears perfectly fine19:04
bartjolbut I thought Martin made spectre, how can there be errors?19:04
+perlDreamerI thought JT wrote spectre, and that Martin just named it19:05
bartjolmmm, that might be, explains a lot :)19:05
+perlDreamerpatspam, I hate those kinds of bugs19:06
+perlDreamerwe had one of those today19:06
+perlDreamerwith deleting a wiki19:06
+perlDreamerif you delete a wiki and purge it, it works fine19:06
+perlDreamerbut try deleting a page containing a wiki, and it's not19:06
bartjolbut it's laundry time, I am even looking forward to it19:06
+perlDreamermartien, kimd, faxioman have definitely joined elnino in the bug reporting elite19:07
+perlDreamerthey are thoughtful, detailed, and patient19:07
+patspamyeah that's awesome19:07
+patspamI wish my clients were like that19:07
bartjolactually testing, instead of getting back a year later with a mention that "it is all broken"19:08
bartjolthat'd be nice19:08
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@HaargperlDreamer, the getCache asset method can't be merged into webgui 8 directly.  i was thinking of replacing it with a getViewCacheKey method.19:26
+perlDreamerwhy can't it be merged?19:27
+perlDreameralso, I thought getCache was a session method19:28
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc0d45e0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove workarounds in WeatherData. Fixes bug #11401. - http://bit.ly/drRnhH19:58
@Haargit can't be merged because it returns a cache object with a specific key.  but you don't construct a cache object per key anymore.20:00
+perlDreamerpatspam: the TAP modules required by the Survey cannot be installed piecemeal, correct?  You have to fully upgrade to Test::Harness 3.x20:01
+perlDreamerHaarg, it sounds like it can be removed, and replace by session->getCache20:02
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* perlDreamer goes out for errands20:34
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+perlDreamerwell, at least the guts of Asset->getCache could be removed.21:40
@Haarggetting rid of the duplicate code is a good idea, it's just that the cache api is going to be very different.  which is why i was thinking getViewCacheKey.21:42
@Haargalthough it would be better if the cache api was finalized21:42
@Haargwe could have $asset->computeViewCache(sub { }, $timeout)21:43
@Haargor something along those lines21:43
+perlDreameranyway we can abstract that out, and keep it insultated from this change, and future changes, will help21:44
@Haargdoes computeViewCache sound like a good idea?  or would there be a better name for it?21:45
@Haargor does getViewCacheKey sound like a better approach?21:46
+perlDreamerif it's returning a key, it should have that in the name21:46
+perlDreamerso I vote for getViewCacheKey21:46
@Haargwell, computeViewCache would be returning the cache data21:46
@Haargor calling the sub if there was no cache data21:47
@Haargand storing the return from the sub in the cache21:47
+perlDreameryes, but in some view methods getCache is used to grab a cache object to stuff data into it21:48
+perlDreamernot just access what might (or might not) be there21:48
@Haargi'm not sure i follow.  that is exactly the case i am talking about.21:48
@Haargwith computeViewCache, it would first try to get the cache data and return it if it was available21:49
@Haargif it wasn't, it would call the sub that was passed in to generate the needed output, then store that in the cache and return it21:49
+perlDreamerah, I missed the last part21:49
+perlDreamerand the method used to generate the needed output would not be $self->view, but $self->view minus the permission checks, cache code, etc.21:50
@Haargyeah, basically21:51
+perlDreamerseems odd to push down one level like that.  Almost like we could replace prepareView with that, or something21:55
+perlDreamerHaarg: how do I make a clone of the metaclass-roles branch to try and tinker with it?22:02
@Haargdo you have my repo as a remote?22:02
+perlDreamerbut this: git checkout -b metaclass-roles --track haarg/metaclass-roles22:03
+perlDreamerdoes this: fatal: git checkout: updating paths is incompatible with switching branches22:03
@Haargwhat about just git checkout -t haarg/metaclass-roles22:03
+perlDreamersame thing22:04
@Haarggit --version22:04
@Haarggit remote update22:05
+perlDreamerupdated, but the checkout still doesn't work22:06
+perlDreamermaybe I misconfigured the remote?22:06
@Haarggit branch -r | grep haarg22:06
@Haarggit remote haarg | nopaste22:07
@Haarggit fetch haarg22:09
@Haargi'm really not sure why it isn't updating22:09
+perlDreamerI'll go running and see if maybe it's some github transient issue22:10
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+perlDreamerhaarg, I figured it out23:55
+perlDreamerwhen I created the remote, I used the -t switch23:56
+perlDreamerit would only use the bart-i18n branch23:56
+perlDreamerso I dropped that remote and added a new one23:56
@Haargmaking an attempt at merging master into WebGUI823:57
+perlDreamergood luck23:58
--- Day changed Tue Mar 02 2010
+perlDreamermlri's server, server3600:25
+perlDreamerevery config file has that in it00:25
@preactionperlDreamer: the ^StorageUrl(); macro can be given a storageId and will return a URL (for use in SQLReports and the like)00:37
@preactionit's even got some nice config options for various things00:38
+perlDreamermust be time for me to review all the macros again00:38
+perlDreamerwhat if there are multiple files in the storage location, though?00:40
@preactionit grabs the first one fsvo first00:41
@preactionperlbot fsvo00:42
@preactionperlbot fsvo is For Some Value Of00:42
@preactionperlbot botsnack00:42
@preactionperlbot fsvo00:42
@preaction... wtf00:42
@preactionperlbot, fsvo00:42
perlbotpreaction: For Some Value Of   00:42
+perlDreamerthe first one "asciibetically", according to the POD ;)00:44
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reea83d5 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix macro issues, missing FilePump, HASH entry. Fixes bug #11449. - http://bit.ly/9TSsZJ01:02
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r9256928 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix macro issues, missing FilePump, HASH entry. Fixes bug #11449. - http://bit.ly/dmMdVC01:04
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* perlDreamer has to go pick up the kids from school, back in 3001:17
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+perlDreamerHaarg: http://gist.github.com/31896502:07
+perlDreamerit's almost like we have different versions of Moose installed02:09
+perlDreamerthose subs don't exist, and the options have different names02:09
+perlDreamerthis one's cleaner, and has more option corrections http://gist.github.com/31897602:21
+perlDreamerI love the Moose stack trace, but it would be so much nicer if the reference were pretty printed02:36
+perlDreamerHaarg: this patch gets all the way down into the Shortcut asset, then dies due to a missing fieldType in a property http://gist.github.com/31899402:44
+perlDreamerthe fieldType is defined in the property, and it's the first one called so it seems like someplace the fieldType is getting lost02:44
+perlDreamerI think the problem is Definition::Meta::Class, _build_property_metaclass03:11
+perlDreamerit's not setting the property metaclass correctly03:11
+perlDreamerthis causes everything to be stuck inside form03:11
+perlDreamerand not get to the property, which then complains about not getting a fieldType03:11
+perlDreamerHaarg, I got it!03:28
+perlDreamerI'll paste a patch after dinner03:28
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+perlDreamerHaarg: http://gist.github.com/31904204:02
+perlDreamerthe last piece was, inside add_property, it was calling $prop_meta->meta04:02
@Haargwhere are you seeing the for vs for_class change needed?04:02
+perlDreamerin the calls to the Utility methods04:02
+perlDreamerit's in the patch04:03
@Haarglooks like it should just be for given the Moose::Util::MetaRole docs04:03
@Haargwhat version of Moose do you have installed?04:04
@Haargi have 0.9804:04
+perlDreamerlet's change testEnvironment.pl, and I'll upgrade to your version04:05
+perlDreamerwith that change, the only change needed should be removing the inherited is from Meta::Property::Asset04:06
+perlDreamerand the $prop_meta->meta thing04:06
+perlDreamerI wonder if that's going to happen everywhere the sub names were different04:08
+perlDreamerand option names04:08
@Haargoption names?04:08
+perlDreamermetaclass_roles vs class_metaroles04:09
+perlDreamerwe're going to have to watch Moose very carefully04:10
+perlDreamerokay, now I'm getting exactly what you said earlier04:18
+perlDreamerthe property meta isn't being set correctly for Assets04:18
@Haargwhat happens with your full patch applied but the new moose version?04:18
+perlDreamerdon't know04:20
+perlDreamermassive chaos, since the sub names and options are all from the earlier version04:20
+perlDreamerthat's what I would guess04:20
@Haargthe earlier stuff all still works04:21
@Haargi'm trying to finish up this section of the merge i'm working on so i can test stuff out.04:21
@HaargperlDreamer, i applied your patch and it fails with the tableName problem04:42
+perlDreamerthat's running t/Definition/Asset.t05:02
+perlDreamerDefinition's init_meta gets called after Definition:Asset's init_meta05:06
+perlDreamerunless that's a testing artifact05:07
@HaargDefinition::Asset->init_meta calls Definition->init_meta05:08
+perlDreameryes, but it's getting called a 2nd time somehow05:10
+perlDreamerand when it gets called the 2nd time, it's overwriting the applied classes, removing the ones set up by WebGUI::Definition::Asset05:13
+perlDreamerWebGUI::Definition is a role05:29
+perlDreamerand it's used by Definition::Asset;05:30
+perlDreamerI think it's applying the init_meta to every class that uses Definition::Asset05:30
+perlDreamerso that it gets called05:30
+perlDreamerso it calls Definition::Asset, which calls Definition and then does it's specific configuration05:30
+perlDreamerthen it calls Definition's init_meta again, and that overwrites the base role and metaroles05:31
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elninohi! 05:52
elninowhen you put in multiple anchors in an article, is there a GUI way to link to it from another article?05:53
elninodoes that make sense?05:55
+perlDreamerit does, but there's no GUI way to link to any of them05:55
+perlDreamernot that I know of05:55
elninook. I didn't think so, but thought I'd ask anyway05:56
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+perlDreamerHaarg, the second call to WebGUI::Definition->init_meta is being provided by Moose::Exporter08:08
+perlDreamerit's like it's calling init_meta up the stack08:08
+perlDreamerusing linearized_isa08:08
@Haargwell, it can't be that because there is no inheritance08:09
@Haargit's probably the 'with'08:09
@Haargsorry, 'also'08:10
+perlDreamerremoving also removes the sugar08:13
+perlDreamerwhat I don't get is that we have an init_meta inside WG::D::A08:13
+perlDreamerso why do we get 2?08:13
+perlDreamerit's there because it's a role08:33
@Haargbecause what is a role?08:33
@Haargnot realy08:34
+perlDreamerwith no inheritance, how else could there be two of them?08:34
@Haargtwo of what?08:34
+perlDreamerinit_meta methods08:35
@HaargWebGUI::Definition's gets called because of the 'also'08:36
@Haargand because we explicitly call it08:36
+perlDreamerI'm shot08:41
+perlDreamerI'm going to call it a night.08:41
@Haargi've been confusing myself some08:41
@Haargpaying attention to how the role is applied to the metaclass08:42
@Haargforgetting that it's the propery metaclass that is the problem08:42
+perlDreamerthat's okay, I'm still confused with how you get 2 init_meta methods in 1 package's namespace, without using inheritance08:43
@Haargin one package namespace?08:43
@Haargthey don't get exported to the class they are used in08:43
@Haargthey are called by import08:43
+perlDreamerso it does keep track of the classes, and calls init_meta in each one08:45
@Haargi changed some other things and was getting the same failures08:45
@Haargremove the + from has 'property_metaroles' and everything works08:45
@Haargnot really deep tracking08:45
@HaargWebGUI::Definition::Asset has also => 'WebGUI::Definition'08:46
@Haargso when WebGUI::Definition::import gets called08:46
@Haargit calls the generated $import method08:46
+perlDreamerwhat other changes do you have, that aren't committed08:46
+perlDreamerif I remove the +, I get missing fieldType warnings08:46
@Haargwhich calls init_meta in WebGUI::Definition::Asset because it is defined there, and init_meta in WebGUI::Definition because of the also08:47
@Haargi'm going to try to minimize the changes08:47
@Haargpushed my changes08:50
+perlDreameronly 1 failing test08:52
+perlDreamerway better than before08:52
@Haargthat one is likely something i broke when making changes08:53
@Haargsome places where it was doing ->isa and i had to do the checks different because ->does and ->does_role weren't working right08:54
@Haargthey only work on Moose classes and it seems like some of the metaclasses end up getting created as Class::MOP classes08:54
@Haargand don't have the extra tracking for roles08:54
+perlDreameris that due to the anonymous classes that are created?08:56
@Haargsomething like that08:56
@Haargif you have a Moose class and apply a role to it that stuff is tracked, but it seems like some of the metaclasses don't.08:57
+perlDreameryou think it's a bug?08:57
@Haargi'm not really familiar with cmp_deeply, but it will need to do a different type of check than an isa08:57
@Haargi have no idea08:57
@Haargalso, i don't really love the _property_metaclass thing i have in there, but it worked so i left it08:59
+perlDreamerwe'll have to build something for cmp_deeply, it only provides an isa method by default09:04
+perlDreamerbut we should be able to construct something that does ->can fairly easily09:04
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+perlDreamerbartjol: definitely17:03
+bartjolah, bien17:05
+bartjolbecause I suppose, my part fixes the part of getting the correct language and the replacement of the files the other stuff17:06
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+bartjolperlDreamer: my fix works, but might it not be better to create the i18n object, which should be able to provide the abbreviation?17:09
+perlDreameryes, that would probably be better17:10
+perlDreamerdo you want to alter your patch to do that?17:10
+bartjolI was going to that, but Koen interrupted me by telephone :)17:13
+perlDreamerthat's what you get for giving him your phone number17:16
+bartjolwell, it was the number of procolix17:18
+bartjolwell, it can be very short:17:23
+bartjol    my $sessionLanguage = $i18n->{_language};17:24
+bartjol    my $language  = $i18n->getLanguage($sessionLanguage,"languageAbbreviation");17:24
+bartjolthe i18n object is already created before :)17:24
+bartjoluseless to copy that code from sub new in international.pm17:24
+perlDreamerthere's a way to get ->{_language} through the object, too, yes?17:25
+bartjolwell, the line I posted17:25
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+bartjolyou can skip the first line and replace $sessionLanguage in the second line by $i18n->{_language}17:26
+bartjolthat's the shortest17:26
+bartjolthe lines with the unless ($language} are obsolete I believe17:27
+bartjolnew defaults to english I believe17:27
+perlDreamerI mean, there must be a way through the API to get $i18n->{_language} without peeking inside the object17:27
+bartjoloh, you mean like a real get method17:27
+bartjolnot sure, I was trying to find that17:28
+perlDreamerthere isn't17:29
+perlDreamerI see17:29
+bartjolah, and I was wrong about new17:29
+perlDreamerwe don't need to pass the language in17:29
+bartjolwe need the abbreviation17:30
+perlDreamer$language = $i18n->get('', 'languageAbbreviation');17:30
+perlDreamerwhich means the language should be the 2nd argument17:30
+bartjolmmm, maybe there are other circumstances where the 1st is better17:31
+perlDreamerthere shouldn't be, the property name is required, and the language is optional17:31
+perlDreamerhash based would work okay, too17:31
+bartjolI can't really overview the complications17:32
+bartjol    my $language  = $i18n->getLanguage($i18n->{_language},"languageAbbreviation"); looks nice and readable to me though17:33
+bartjoland it works17:36
+perlDreamerI think the unless code is there to handle broken language packs, without making the rich editor crash17:36
+bartjoland spanish isn't my best alnguage17:36
+perlDreamerno, it doesn't have any TinyMCE translations17:37
+bartjolthe default stuff is there17:37
+bartjolbut not webgui plugin stuff17:38
+bartjolbut, are we gonna renew all getLanguage calls?17:39
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbeb1337 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/RichEdit.pm): Make the RichEditor obey the new session overrides for language settings. Fixes bug #11443. - http://bit.ly/d2uvmd17:40
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r85dd7cc / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/RichEdit.pm): Make the RichEditor obey the new session overrides for language settings. Fixes bug #11443. - http://bit.ly/8YBGSn17:40
+bartjolif you wanna swap language and the translation ID17:40
+perlDreameroh, no.  That would have to happen in WebGUI 817:41
+perlDreamerand for all I know Haarg has plans to completely change that17:41
+bartjolyeah, well, I grepped throuh the code, it's only about 10 entries17:42
+bartjolbut still17:42
+perlDreameryes, we could fix the core, but completely break all the custom code out there17:42
+perlDreamerwhich, might help with budgets in the future, but would not make customers happy17:43
+bartjolcustomers? since when are those important?17:43
+bartjolwell that seems fixed in my site17:45
+perlDreamerI went with '' instead of $i18n->{_language}17:45
+bartjoland less code in total17:45
+bartjolI saw it in git17:45
+perlDreamertime to take the kiddos to school17:45
+bartjolhave fun17:45
+perlDreamerokay, kids are taken care of18:02
+perlDreamerbartjol is happy18:02
+perlDreamertime to work with rogier18:02
+bartjolbut, any specific reason to let out the $i18n->{_language} ? because it is shorter or quicker?18:03
+bartjoljust interested18:03
+bartjolit is not better readable18:03
+bartjolsorry for reopening :)18:03
+perlDreamerit breaks object encapsulation, and isn't needed18:04
+perlDreamerit's better to use the bad API design than to peek inside the object like that18:04
+bartjolI believe you18:04
+bartjolnot sure why yet18:04
+bartjolit is only looking18:05
+bartjolit's a matter of not being best practises I suppose18:06
+perlDreamerpeeking inside objects (when not needed) is bad18:07
+perlDreamerbecause if the object changes, your peeking may break18:07
+perlDreamerand then you have to hunt all through the code base to find the breakage18:08
+perlDreamerbecause we don't have enough tests to cover all the code18:08
+bartjoldoesn't rogier's bug solution also indicated that or used tempalted can't be deleted, or automatical setting change at removal18:08
+bartjolah, ok18:08
+perlDreamerthere should be a fallback for "critical" operations18:08
+perlDreamerso that users don't break their sites badly18:09
+perlDreamerso we fix the login templates, but create account and the others will just stay broken18:09
+perlDreamersince you could login and fix those18:09
+bartjoljust a way of preventing people like rogier to lock themselves out18:10
+bartjolI suppose I'm one of them cruel sysadmins18:10
+bartjoltime to go18:12
+bartjolthanks for the explanation perlDreamer18:12
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rc31110d / (4 files in 3 dirs): Try to fallback to a default login template if the configured one won't work. Fixes bug #11450. - http://bit.ly/9Ucgvs18:51
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r119d513 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Try to fallback to a default login template if the configured one won't work. Fixes bug #11450. - http://bit.ly/9zFOpo18:52
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dionakHi all19:05
+perlDreamerhey, dionak!19:05
dionakhow are things in WG land?19:05
+perlDreamernot too bad19:06
+perlDreamerwe just released 7.8-stable19:06
+perlDreamerWebGUI 8 work continues on19:06
dionakyes, i noticed that. congrads!19:06
dionakspeaking of upgrades & releases. Quick upgrade question. I'm upgrade a site from 7.5.40 to 7.7.20. I'm following what I think is the prescribed upgrade path. 7.5.40->7.6.35->7.7.20. Did I miss any step?19:07
dionaki'm getting the following error: Adding comments asset aspect...DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'assetAspectComments' already exists19:07
+perlDreamerhow many times did you go through the upgrade?19:07
dionaka couple now. i've restored the database and the lib & doc files when starting over19:08
+perlDreamerat which step in the upgrade does that happen?19:08
dionakcopied a fresh version from production (7.5.40)19:08
dionakhrspotlight_com 7.5.40-7.6.1019:08
dionakthe script makes several db alters before failing on this one19:08
+perlDreamerin the 7.5.40, does the assetAspectsComments table exist in the 7.5.40 database?19:09
+perlDreamerthe other thing that can happen is that when restoring the database, it has to be dropped.19:10
+perlDreamerbecause importing the backup will not delete the newly created tables19:10
dionakah, that's the issue.19:10
dionakthanks. i'll make a note19:10
+perlDreamerwe should stick that in the wiki somewhere19:11
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+perlDreamerHaarg, spent most of the morning doing core bug fixing19:17
+perlDreamerI'll have a go at the wg8 tests when I come back from the gym19:17
@Haargthe good part of that test failure in the roles stuff is that it is only a rest failure and the code itself is working afaik19:18
dionaki stuck that note in a wiki entry. thanks for the pointer perlDreamer19:20
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dionakanother question. while running the upgrade from 7.6.35-7.7.17 I get: Reverting use packed... Invalid asset id 'pGyXTw9lAizHICubVyYqEQ' requested! at upgrade_7.6.35-7.7.17.pl line 144819:50
dionakIs there a utility tool anywhere to check the validity of assetIds?19:50
dionakor method?20:05
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+perlDreamerdionak, we need a tool like that20:40
+perlDreamerit should be a Cron job that runs weekly and alerts admins to broken assets in their sites20:41
+perlDreamerthat way, they can fix them _before_ doing upgrades20:41
dionakyea, that would be handy. i'll keep that in mind20:49
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+perlDreamerHaarg, it would be nice if the classes were sane, but I agree that it's better that they're functional then pretty :)20:59
+perlDreamerHaarg: here's the test patch-> http://gist.github.com/31979921:02
+perlDreamerafter this, can we merge and start role hackery?21:03
ckotilwhere are you using roles?21:05
@preactionthe old AssetAspects are becoming Moose::Roles21:06
ckotilah. ive never heard of either :)21:06
+perlDreamerAssetAspects provide things like RssFeeds21:07
+perlDreamerin WebGUI8, they do all that, and more21:07
@preactionreusable bits of asset functionality21:07
ckotilah cool21:08
+perlDreamerpreaction: what's involved in update the VM for WebGUI?21:25
@preactioni don't know, never made one21:26
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@preactionperlDreamer: my real solution to that login template problem is to put the default webGUI templates on the filesystem, so that they simply cannot be edited OR deleted22:49
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+perlDreamerwe could just lock them down in the database so they can't be deleted through the UI22:55
@preactionyeah, but still annoying to edit default templates and no way to patch / track22:55
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+perlDreamerpreaction, in 7.9 I'm planning on adding testHarness 3.17 to testEnvironment.pl.  Any issues, concerns, worries, directives or comments?23:52
@preactionas an optional install correct?23:52
+perlDreamerparts of the Survey won't work without it23:53
@preactionokay, go ahead23:53
@preactionif it's necessary for normal operation it's required, if it's only necessary for testing, it's optional23:53
@preactionthat should be true for all our requirements23:53
+perlDreamerwell, in that case23:54
+perlDreamerit's used for testing the Survey, from inside the Survey23:54
@preactionright, but it's an end-user utility23:54
+perlDreamerinstead of t/test.t23:54
+perlDreamergot it23:54
@preactionwe've got five types of users: Devs, Admins, Designers, Content Managers, and Visitors. only Devs are concerned about the unit tests, and only devs will take the time to learn how to install the optional components23:56
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@preactionwe should just Do The Right Thing when it comes to Admins, Designers, Content Managers, and Visitors23:56
@preactionAdmins should never have to concern themselves with Dev problems, Designers with Admin problems, Content Managers with Designer problems, etc..23:56
* preaction should draw up a UI guideline document someday23:57
+perlDreamerdocumentation is good23:57
@preactionwe'd be able to simplify the UI if we specified the rules under which certain things should happen23:57
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8128f54 / (4 files in 4 dirs): WebGUI now needs Test::Harness 3.17 or higher for the Survey. Fixes bug #11402. - http://bit.ly/aPGJYt23:59
@preactionwait, is that really a bug?23:59
@preactionif it's a bug, we can add the additional requirements to the 7.8 series23:59
+perlDreamerit was supposed to go into 7.8, but was added late23:59
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+perlDreamerso the change was backed out, with the condition it could go into 7.900:00
+perlDreamerso not really a bug00:00
+perlDreamerbut I didn't want to forget it, so I posted a bug about it00:00
+perlDreamerI did something similar with WeatherData00:00
@preactionyeah, that's no problem. just making sure00:00
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+perlDreamerspeaking of the man himself!00:01
+perlDreameryo, patspam00:01
+perlDreamerDid you detect a disturbance in the Survey?00:01
+perlDreamerI need to go pick up the kids from school00:04
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CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r13b7538 / (5 files in 4 dirs): start of conversion to metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/abUtee01:35
CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra2f0cbe / (6 files in 3 dirs): fix more things for metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/aByuWi01:35
CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r12fcdf2 / (6 files in 5 dirs): almost working using metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/bSq7DV01:35
CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra5f54a7 / (4 files in 3 dirs): mostly working definition roles - http://bit.ly/9m9rC401:35
+perlDreamerHaarg, the tests work, but Asset.pm is not in good shape01:54
@Haargwhat kind of problems are you running into?01:54
+perlDreameraround blocks, and mixing property and has01:55
@Haargwhen are you getting that?01:57
@Haargi just updated WebGUI8 and i'm not getting errors like that01:58
@Haargperl -Ilib -mWebGUI::Asset -wce1 works fine01:58
+perlDreamerthat's perl -wc -I /data/WebGUI/lib Asset.pm01:59
@Haargre-including the same file is what is messing it up02:00
@Haargdoes that normally work for you?  or does it normally work but with errors?02:01
@Haargbut with warnings02:01
+perlDreamerit normally works, with no syntax errors, sometimes I get warnings about subroutines being redefined02:01
+perlDreamerbut all the Asset modules include one another incestuously02:01
@Haargyeah, but that is fine02:01
@Haargthe problem is that you are giving it just the file02:02
+perlDreamerI'll rewrite my vim bindkeys02:02
@Haargso it goes through Asset.pm, which includes WebGUI::AssetLineage, which includes WebGUI::Asset, which perl doesn't know it loaded already02:02
+perlDreamerhow do I use the new/improved Definition to build a role now?02:03
@Haargthat's a good question.02:03
+perlDreameryou mean the goal of doing this wasn't to make making roles possible?02:06
@Haargit was02:06
@Haargit's just not complete yet02:06
@Haargthe first problem is that it tries to apply WebGUI::Definition::Role::Asset to the role class02:10
@Haarghttp://gist.github.com/320151 not perfect but at least gets RssFeed compiling02:20
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+perlDreamerwhat causes the metaclass of RssFeed to be different?02:24
@Haargit is a role02:24
+perlDreamerah, use Moose::Role02:24
@Haargi can't get Asset::Wobject to load right now02:25
+perlDreameris that because it uses extends?02:25
@Haargis something broken with extends?02:26
+perlDreamercan't use extends with roles02:26
+perlDreamerI think02:26
@Haargoh.  you can't use them in roles02:26
@Haargbut you can still have inheritance with your non-role classes02:26
@Haargasset itself works02:27
@Haargbut all subclasses are borken02:27
@Haargman that's a seriously screwed up error02:29
+perlDreamercould you commit the gist patch?02:30
@Haargyeah.  i want to clean that up eventually but it's a good enough start.02:30
CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r38e2e09 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): apply correct roles/metaroles to roles - http://bit.ly/c6UmhX02:31
+perlDreamerthanks :)02:32
+perlDreamerwait a sec02:33
+perlDreamerthe thing with extends should only fail if Asset.pm is a Role02:33
+perlDreamerwhich it isn't02:33
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CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rd932543 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject.pm : clean up Wobject includes - http://bit.ly/cJN2Pt02:35
+perlDreamerwhen you say it won't load, what does that mean?02:35
@HaargAsset::Wobject (or any other Asset subclass) fails to compile02:36
+perlDreamerperl -I/data/WebGUI/lib -mWebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Article -wce102:36
+perlDreamerlike that?02:36
+perlDreamerArticle compiles for me02:37
+perlDreamerand until the most recent commit, Wobject compiled okay for me too02:37
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doc777I seem to have gotten 2 sites that have "cross linked" themselves.  Each seems to be looking for files in the "other" domains folder and cannot find them. using the latest wre. Any clues as to what I have done wrong?02:44
+perlDreamercheck the config files02:45
doc777ok, thanks :o)02:45
doc777uploadsURL is /uploads should that be something else?  The uploads path looks correct.  But site A looks for files in site B dir according to modproxy-error.02:48
+perlDreameruploadsURL can be anything02:49
@preactionDocumentRoot in the modproxy files?02:50
* perlDreamer takes the kids to piano lessons. I should be back online at 6pm or so02:52
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doc777They seem correct. Everything was fine on site A, then I added site B and suddenly noticed site A was wrecked.  Checking the log file show that site A is looking at site Bs upload folder.02:53
doc777I think it is this: RewriteRule ^/(.*)$102:55
@preactionoh, old WRE03:06
@preactionyou need ProxyPreserveHost On03:06
doc777Ah, let me check that out :)03:09
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* patspam emerges from under a rock05:06
@preactionhow was it?05:06
+patspamcosy :)05:06
+patspamI installed linux based firmware (dd-wrt) on my router today, yay!05:07
+perlDreamerpatspam: no more TAP hacks in Survey05:07
+patspamtell me more05:07
+perlDreamerwell, we have WebGUI 7.9 now, so I made Test::Harness 3.x a requirement05:10
+perlDreamerso no more eval { require TAP::MOD } or show_error_message;05:11
+patspamdang, I just transcoded a dvd of old family footage and the resulting avi file was bigger than the original vob files05:13
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r644b74c / docs/create.sql : Ready for 7.8.14 release. - http://bit.ly/by7wyx07:09
+perlDreamerall done07:37
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rca0d7cc / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.15 development. - http://bit.ly/b5rt3E07:37
-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.7.33-stable | 7.8.14-stable | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com07:41
+perlDreamerthanks, Radix_07:42
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+perlDreamerbartjol, you are internationally happy today?17:03
+bartjoleeeh, hevan't looked yet17:06
+bartjoloh, I did17:06
+bartjolbut only at the macro17:06
+bartjoland I had all stuff installed already17:06
+bartjolrichedit is great too17:07
+bartjoland i18n still at 100%17:10
SDuensinHey gang.  Does the new 7.8.14 upgrade correctly?17:18
+bartjolmine did17:18
SDuensinI know it had missing packages or something last time, so I waited.17:18
+bartjolhaven't found any yet17:18
+bartjolbut I installed them with the script17:19
+bartjolso that is not complete certainty17:19
+bartjoli.e: I took another route17:19
SDuensinI'll quit asking you then.  :-P17:20
SDuensinI fear upgrades enough as it is.17:20
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+bartjolbut what you can do17:22
+bartjolto copy my path17:22
+bartjolis upgrade to 7.8.13, run the packages script and then upgrade to 7.8.1417:23
+bartjolSDuensin: just as easy :)17:23
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+bartjoland don't follow rogiers directions on login templates17:25
+perlDreamer7.8.14 is all fixed up17:27
+perlDreamerthe missing templates are added back in17:28
+perlDreamerand yeah, don't let rogier muck with your login templates17:28
+perlDreamerotherwise bartjol the mean admin will laugh at you17:28
+bartjolI know, but I just didn't test it the "normal" way17:28
+perlDreamerbartjol, do you have the screen program installed on your servers?17:29
+bartjoloh, yeah, you asked silly questions, let me ponder on how to lay my wrath opun you17:29
SDuensinperlDreamer - So pop to the latest 7.7.x and then on up?17:29
+bartjolbart@host116~> which screen17:29
+bartjolI do apparently17:29
* SDuensin loves that program.17:30
+perlDreamerSDuensin, what version are you on now?17:30
SDuensinUh.  Looking.17:30
+bartjolbut maybe not all17:31
+bartjoltoday is a day of dumb people asking questions17:31
+perlDreamerso, upgrade to 7.7.3317:31
+perlDreamerthen go to 7.8.1317:31
+perlDreamerbut the upgrade path is 7.7.x to 7.7.33 to 7.8.13 to 7.8.1417:34
SDuensinOk.  Didn't know there was a stop at 13.17:34
+perlDreamerthere's not a stop, but instead of going from 7.7.33 to 7.8.0, it will shunt you up to 7.8.1317:36
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r53d63bc / (docs/create.sql docs/previousVersion.sql): Fix SQL scripts for the next beta release. - http://bit.ly/aCFPNU18:23
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+perlDreamerHaarg, why does WebGUI::Definition::Meta::Class need to install the properties into a new anonymous class?19:18
+perlDreamerand oose.pm is just evil19:18
@Haargit needs to have an instance of the attribute metaclass to check for which sub-attributes to stick in 'form'19:28
+perlDreamerso, before the recent set of patches, Moose was building one for us?19:30
@Haargwe weren't using a role but specifying a class.  so there was no need to construct the class, we already had it.19:38
+perlDreamerwould it be easier to duplicate the Definition code in another class that is the base class for Roles, instead of trying to build a dual purpose solution?19:43
@Haarghaving the if condition i added in seems to work for that part though.19:45
+perlDreamersure.  I was just thinking about the Asset subclasses not being able to load the anonymous meta classes19:47
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r122bd26 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset.t): Add keywords accessor for looking up Asset keywords. - http://bit.ly/deCsLs21:04
+perlDreamerHaarg, did you try using any of the Asset subclasses, or just syntax check them?21:06
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0a0b655 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Eval and error handling for processTemplate. - http://bit.ly/dn2zKg21:10
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r44c6048 / t/Asset/Wobject/Shelf.t : Update test for exception handling. - http://bit.ly/a48MoX21:10
+perlDreamerI just realized I've been running wobject tests for the last 20 minutes21:10
@Haarglooks like maybe i'm only getting warnings21:10
+perlDreamerI saw the same thing, and figured they were errors21:11
+perlDreamershelf works, btw21:11
@Haargvery strange warnings though21:12
@Haargand if i try to load WebGUI::Asset::File i get a warning21:12
@Haargbut if i try to load WebGUI::Asset::File::Image i don't21:12
+perlDreamerI see that, too21:13
+perlDreamerZipArchive has warnings21:14
@Haargwhat i'm wondering is why Asset is getting an anonymous superclass21:39
* perlDreamer quotes Bart Simpson, "I didn't do it!"21:41
+perlDreamershouldn't the anonymous superclass be the class for the role that is added?21:41
@Haargi guess21:43
CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rd7b0d93 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): Apply Definition roles properly to eliminate warnings - http://bit.ly/8Y0ouh21:49
@HaargCollaboration is compiling with RssFeed as a role.  haven't tried to do any testing though.21:50
+perlDreamertesting I can do21:52
+perlDreamerbrilliant API design and implementation I leave to my betters21:52
+perlDreamerhowever, right now I'm leaving my betters to go running21:52
@Haarg'brilliant' may be stretching it a bit.  at this point i'm hoping i haven't invented something too complex.21:53
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb4a790a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/fileImport.pl): Fix handling filenames with space with overwrite=1 in fileImport.pl. Fixes bug #11453 - http://bit.ly/dxU23B23:28
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r446403c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/fileImport.pl): Fix handling filenames with space with overwrite=1 in fileImport.pl. Fixes bug #11453 - http://bit.ly/9bMUUN23:28
+perlDreamerHaarg: the role seems to be adopting the table of the consumer23:30
+perlDreamerbut that may be an artifact of the way I wrote write23:31
kimdpreaction, do you have time for a quick JS question?23:52
kimdHow can access the id of an element?23:52
kimdel.id doesn't work.23:52
kimdOr does someone else know?23:54
--- Day changed Thu Mar 04 2010
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@HaargperlDreamer, probably because of the way the get_all_tables method works00:04
kimdOk, I got it. No need to answer.00:04
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+perlDreamerHaarg, it's both00:27
+perlDreamersince roles inject themselves into the class00:27
+perlDreamerinspecting the class metas is flawed00:27
+perlDreamerI think someone mentioned that to me at one point00:27
@preactionversion tags serve two purposes: staging content and history/rollback, correct?00:39
@preactionfor the most part, users don't want staging content unless they actually know they want it, then they could take an extra step or two to create a "stage"00:40
@preactionand history/rollback can be done without staging content00:41
@preactionthree purposes: approval00:42
+perlDreamerapproval is a side effect of staging00:42
+perlDreamerand has little to do with the tags themselves00:42
+perlDreamerat least, that's the way that version tags are built today00:43
@preactioni'm just thinking that websites keep evolving, everybody wants to add content and admins want that content added in a structured way00:45
@preactionand if we could do it all again... what would we do?00:46
+perlDreamerHaarg has this idea about versions versus revisions00:47
+perlDreamerright now an asset can contain both00:47
+perlDreamerwell, not really versions versus revisions, but versioned and non-versioned data00:47
+perlDreamerand that you should be able to access them independently00:47
@preactionwell, in a DBIC world there'd be a DBIC::Versioned or whatever00:48
@preactionor a WebGUI::Model::Role::Versioned00:49
@preactionand in a perfect world i'd have a pony00:51
+perlDreamerin a perfect world, I'd give you the pony00:52
+perlDreamerI think WebGUI's version system works okay00:52
+perlDreamerit could be implemented better though00:52
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+perlDreamerand it would be nice if it versioned everything00:53
+perlDreamerbut I know that's much more challenging00:53
@preactionwould anyone object if Folder had a checkbox to "Commit added files automatically"00:54
+perlDreamerhow about if it has a user selectable workflow in the edit properties?00:55
@preactionof course it would need that00:55
+perlDreamerit won't work00:55
@preactionbut then what about subfolders?00:55
+perlDreamerthey inherit from the parent, or you can override00:56
+perlDreamerit won't work because the children don't check the parent for the autocommit tag00:56
@preactionthis just opens a nice big huge can of worms00:56
+perlDreamerwhat that person wants is per branch configuration of commit workflow00:56
@preactionwhy does it always seem like i could reduce WebGUI to like 5 assets?00:58
+perlDreamerthey'd be 5 very fat assets, not like the beautiful ones we have now :P00:58
@preactionwhich ones are those?01:00
@preactionwe'd need a Folder, a Calendar, a RawContent, a RichContent, and a File01:00
+perlDreamerWhat about Sku's?01:00
+perlDreamerand the DataForm?01:01
+perlDreameror forum?01:01
@preactionForm of course01:01
@preactionforum is a folder of folders of richcontents01:01
@preactiongallery is a folder of folders of files01:01
@preactionblog is a folder of richcontents01:01
@preactionrichcontent would have useful, individually-placed attachments01:02
@preactionwiki is a folder of richcontents editable by anyone01:02
@preactionform with a proper set of reporting features01:03
@preactionwould have to be its own asset as part of shop, but that's an entire subsystem of its own01:04
@preactionand a subclass of RichContent, of course01:04
+perlDreamerSku is a role01:06
+perlDreamerso that you can buy or sell any of the other ones01:06
+perlDreamerI wouldn't doubt that you could do what you're talking about01:10
+perlDreamerI think we'd end up with "deep" sets of assets, instead of "wide" ones01:10
+perlDreamerwhere there are lots of subclasses, instead of siblings01:10
+perlDreamerpreaction: how about a CommitMyChanges macro?01:16
+perlDreamerthat would work outside of TurnAdminOn01:16
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@preactionthey're normal users though, they don't know about version tags or committing or anything like that01:17
+perlDreameryou could make the label say anything01:17
+perlDreamerYou must check-in your files after uploading01:17
+perlDreameror whatever01:17
+perlDreamerthe thing is, what the user really needs is access to the commit link01:17
@preactionwell, what the user really needs is for the Gallery to allow any file uploads01:18
@preactionor to use a Collaboration System, or something01:18
+perlDreamercould you style a gallery to look like a folder01:19
+perlDreamerwithout albums and thumbnails and the like?01:19
@preactionof course01:19
+perlDreamerFolder is such a nice, small, Asset though01:22
+perlDreamerGallery is big!01:22
@preactionyes, but Gallery is only big because it has to deal with normal user input and versioning. if Folder had to, it would be big too01:24
+perlDreamercan you deep nest albums, like Folders?01:25
@preactionif we let anyone add files to a folder, we have to control it, filter it, secure it, and etc...01:25
@preactionno, but that's not out of the question as a feature01:25
@preactionjust, nobody asked for it. nobody ever asks for it01:26
+perlDreamerHaarg: new write method for Asset -> http://gist.github.com/32118701:27
+perlDreamerI need to expand the tests to consider roles01:27
+perlDreamerpreaction, it seems to be a dance between implementing so many features that we're too big to use, and not having enough features for people to get work done01:31
@preactionyes. we add too little for the feature to matter to people to want to use it01:32
+perlDreamerI'm not sure about that01:35
@preactioni've heard a dozen times people don't use Gallery simply because they can't nest albums01:36
+perlDreamerthey why don't they file an RFE to get it done?01:38
+perlDreameror pay to get it done?01:38
+perlDreameror just write it themselves?01:38
@preactionbecause they aren't invested enough, they'd rather go find something that works01:38
@preactionthey'd rather get their job done instead of merely telling someone else to do it01:39
+perlDreamerthen we have to be psychic enough to know what people are going to need before we write stuff01:40
@preactionthat's easy though: look at what everyone else is doing01:40
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4d3d031 / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Asset.pm : remove copy/paste variable names. - http://bit.ly/ahADuf01:46
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf88c18e / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Fix the write method to iterate over each property to get the table names instead of looking in the class metaproperties. - http://bit.ly/aQbbjK01:46
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3d52c45 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Changes to Post and Collaboration, for new Asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/auSYje01:46
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rda57427 / asset_status.ods : Collaboration tests are passing now. - http://bit.ly/9Yl3Ke01:46
+perlDreamereveryone else is using PHP :D01:46
@preactionbut we can copy their features02:02
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+perlDreamert/00_compile.t can be run!02:32
+perlDreamergithub is down02:33
+perlDreamera large portion of developers all leave for coffee02:33
+perlDreameron the way out, they smile sadly at their boss and say, "Sorry, boss. But with github down we can do any work."02:35
+perlDreamerand the Boss scratches his head and says, "I thought that GitHub allowed offline work, which is why they spend all that time in the coffee shop...'02:36
@preactionand then they remember that git is distributed and allows pushing directly to production02:36
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r814c2af / (55 files in 6 dirs): Change calls to new to newById across Asset/ - http://bit.ly/c9rLvt02:41
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8f6c20d / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix lots of syntax errors and bad definition configuration. - http://bit.ly/d8XcR702:41
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r65a5053 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm : Fix a missing label in the WikiPage - http://bit.ly/9xWi9c02:41
+perlDreamerToday is a big day, preaction02:41
+perlDreamert/00_compile.t runs clean02:41
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+perlDreamerI think that in 2-3 weeks we could use an alpha server up and running for wg802:43
+perlDreameris that doable?02:43
@preactionwe also need every action a user is allowed to do to be configurable... because that is eventually what they want02:43
+perlDreamerin wg8?02:44
@preactionno, 702:44
* perlDreamer is having a hard time with the context change02:44
+perlDreamerwhat kind of actions, and what kind of configurability?02:44
@preactionsorry, i'm approving RFEs, since we're unfrozen again02:44
+perlDreamerI warned you about those german language RFEs02:45
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9b4a9be / (7 files in 2 dirs): Remove usage of Class:C3 in favor of roles. - http://bit.ly/bkzcjG03:59
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@preactionso many things are easy to do when you're first building an app, and absolutely impossible when you've got it deployed04:10
@preactionand so braindead as to wonder WHY it wasn't added in the first place04:10
@preactioni swear to god one day i'm gonna burn this place to the ground04:16
@preactionwonderful. i can't approve any other RFEs because i Can't find them. HelpDesk doesn't save sorting through pages04:31
+perlDreamersounds like we should fix the sorting bug in the HelpDesk, sooner rather than later?04:38
@preactionfrodwith will be doing so once he's finished with automat, so hopefully April04:42
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7e673d4 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/RssFeed.pm : Don't need no stinkin' strict anymore! - http://bit.ly/ajKdGK04:43
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5dc0299 / (4 files in 3 dirs): First cut at moving Subscribable to an Asset. - http://bit.ly/cffoTM04:43
@preactionthat's the new tack: make paul do it04:45
+perlDreamercan you wait that long?04:46
+perlDreamerin any case, while we're working on the helpdesk, we need to display the time that a ticket was submited04:47
@preactionyeah, nobody's gonna be putting anything into 7.9 anyway04:47
+perlDreamerI think you may be surprised about that...04:47
+perlDreamerLuke Robinson's Login form code is a nice addition04:47
@preactioni know arjan has a couple things04:47
+perlDreamerand I may have a few pDC things to add as well04:47
+perlDreamerlike the Folder DataForm template04:48
@preactionfolder dataform template?04:48
+perlDreamerI'll get you a URL04:48
+perlDreamerthe other thing I'd like to work on is the Asset manager pop-up menu rewrite04:49
+perlDreamerwhere we use 1 menu and pop it up in the right place, instead of making 25-50 of them04:49
+perlDreamershould really speed things up for loading04:49
+perlDreamerwhaddya think?04:51
+perlDreamer(about the folder)04:51
@preactionsounds fine to me04:51
+perlDreameralso, knowing patspam, I wouldn't doubt there's something that couldn't be worked in wG 7.9 from SDH04:53
+perlDreamermaybe the template usage search and replace code04:53
@preactionheh, yeah, not seeing that happening04:54
@preactionwebgui 7 just needs to go away04:54
@preactionand 8 too04:54
@preactionwe need WebGUI X04:54
@preaction(that's 10, not Ecks)04:54
+perlDreamer8 will be good stuff04:57
+perlDreamerI just hope we don't get the huge turnover that happened with 6-704:57
+perlDreamerI think we should do 1 high profile RFE, though04:58
+perlDreamereven if we have to do it off hours04:58
+perlDreamerit was a promise PB made to the community04:58
@preactionbut WebGUI 8 has to be ready, period04:59
+patspamI'm hanging out for wg1105:01
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra37b1c7 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Cleanup for moose accessors. - http://bit.ly/dhSLHD05:02
+perlDreamerI don't think there will ever be a WebGUI bigger than 805:02
+perlDreamerGooey is out of tentacles05:02
@preactionif i have complete authority for 2 major versions, i can make something totally awesome05:05
+perlDreamerIf you'd make a Trait for JSON in an Asset property that would be totally awesome now05:10
@preactionbut i don't like JSON in assets05:11
@preactionwould even go so far as to say i hate it05:11
+perlDreamerhow would you do it differently?05:11
+perlDreamersee, you're using one of those CS terms that I don't understand05:15
@preactiona joined table05:15
+perlDreamerIs the Installable AssetAspect used anywhere?05:16
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2b39e16 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Rough conversion of Comments and Installable to Moose. - http://bit.ly/bs75wc05:22
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r36b6081 / (3 files): Update 3 Form plugins for Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/anQQE505:31
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra62e7b7 / lib/WebGUI/Session/Style.pm : Update Session for new Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/aLKgIO05:35
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4137b19 / lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm : Update Account/Inbox plugin for new Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/bKZK8f05:38
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r913802f / lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm : And again... - http://bit.ly/c9OvDh05:39
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * raab930a / lib/WebGUI/Content/AssetDiscovery.pm : Update Content handlers for wg8. - http://bit.ly/bx3kSX05:43
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r19d4e6d / lib/WebGUI/AdminConsole.pm : Update AdminConsole for instaniators. - http://bit.ly/dpzvbo05:43
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd9e2816 / lib/WebGUI/Operation/Help.pm : Update Operation/Help for new asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/bcHo2a05:44
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * red58eba / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : More instanciator cleanup in Asset.pm - http://bit.ly/bN71T405:48
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+patspamnight all06:15
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re759890 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Update TrashExpiredEvents to wg8. - http://bit.ly/bNahwL06:45
+perlDreamerselect assetId from EventsCalendar_event where eventEndDate < ?06:45
@preactionsounds awesome06:47
+perlDreameraside from the table not existing06:47
+perlDreamerI'm guessing this is another one of those low usage workflow activities06:47
+perlDreamerI want to convert all the other classes over to Moose now06:49
+perlDreamerwell, either that or write tests for 6 weeks non-stop06:50
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1706747 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Fix this completely broken Workflow Activity. - http://bit.ly/bZIsPc06:50
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3471f62 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Fix this completely broken Workflow Activity. - http://bit.ly/ceCmlw06:50
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rcd2c1f5 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/GetSyndicatedContent.pm : Update workflow activity for wg8. - http://bit.ly/9eHw7P06:53
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2147d7f / lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm : Update getAssetsInTrash method for wg8 instanciations and exception handling. - http://bit.ly/bXXPG206:55
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3e7e2c4 / lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm : And again. - http://bit.ly/bCsrWR06:56
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r03427ee / lib/WebGUI/ProgressBar.pm : Update ProgressBar for new wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/cHZT0a06:57
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * recc71d4 / (6 files in 3 dirs): Update Shop for new instanciators and for exception handling. - http://bit.ly/9QH7bt07:08
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdfc388f / (2 files in 2 dirs): More Subscribable fixes. - http://bit.ly/9SPg9407:08
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbf1cb7b / (7 files in 2 dirs): Aspect to Role renaming - http://bit.ly/cO4Ytq07:10
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r26e50b9 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/RssFeed.pm : Fix POD typo. - http://bit.ly/a0GpLn07:26
+perlDreamerHaarg, preaction, the SC asset is currently broke in wg8.  I'll be fixing it tomorrow.07:26
@preactionit's okay, nobody's gonna use the SC asset in WG8 for a while07:26
+perlDreamerhopefully not too long07:29
+perlDreamerof course, there's still all the editing interfaces to work on07:29
+perlDreamerbut building wg8 may be one of the best things to ever happen to wg707:29
+perlDreamersince we're literally crawling through all the code07:29
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+patspammorning perlDreamer17:31
+perlDreamerhowdy, patspam17:31
+perlDreamerbig milestone in WebGUI 8 last night17:31
+perlDreamerthe syntax check ran clean17:31
+perlDreamerand Roles seem to be working for the most part17:31
+perlDreamerneeds more testing though17:32
SDuensinWhaaa?  Cool!17:32
+perlDreamerand ahead of us, is the new CHI caching infratructure17:32
+perlDreamerand change to automated form building in all assets17:32
SDuensinIs there a roadmap anywhere?  Just curious as to what you're planning for 8.17:33
+perlDreamerthere was a roadmap presented at the WUC17:39
+perlDreamerit's changed since then, though17:39
+perlDreameryou could try asking preaction, or searching through the Black Blog for the older announcements17:39
SDuensinI know how that is.  My roadmap changes direction like a flag in a thunderstorm.17:39
+MrHairgreaseSDuensin: http://www.webgui.org/use/wgtv/wgtv/2009-state-of-webgui#idgV-xaRzZhRqX-3hbNo5Jhw17:40
SDuensinThanks!  I was just headed to the TV area to look around!17:40
+MrHairgreaseI think that the initial wg 8 roadmap was reveiled there17:40
SDuensinThis is kind of an obvious URL, now that I see it...   http://www.webgui.org/roadmap17:42
SDuensinI like this statement:  "WebGUI 8 is about strengthening the platform for the future, and about improving the user experience."17:48
SDuensinThe hardest part I have in selling WebGUI to people is the appearance.  Not to be cruel, but the default look is ugly at best.17:48
SDuensinYou put an out-of-the-box WebGUI next to something like Liferay and it just makes WebGUI look old.17:49
SDuensinUnfortunately, people don't realize the "problem" isn't a problem until they've run off with something else and find out it sucks.  :-/17:50
+perlDreamergosh, that turd sure looked purdy18:00
* MrHairgrease is not sure he wants to know...18:01
+MrHairgreaseand what is purdy18:01
SDuensinPeople like all the snazzy AJAXy crap.18:02
+perlDreamerpurdy is slang for pretty18:03
+perlDreamerwith a southern drawl18:03
* ckotil plucks the banjo18:03
+MrHairgreaseoh if it's pretty then I'm all ears18:04
+MrHairgreasetell us about the pretty turd18:04
+perlDreamerwell, gosh, it has that nice thing where it gets all blinky18:04
+perlDreamerand when I start to type, it already knows what I'm going to say18:05
+perlDreamerall the corners are roundy18:05
+perlDreamerit just looks cool18:05
SDuensinYes!  Roundy!18:05
* SDuensin wrote a roundy corner thing for WebGUI.18:05
+perlDreamerI couldn't get it to do anything useful, but it's sure purdy18:05
+MrHairgreaseseems like general eurotrash to me18:06
+perlDreamerthat would be a euroturd18:06
SDuensinLook!  Roundy test!  http://allplay.jaegertech.net/18:06
+bartjolwhat, is there a generic solution for that?18:08
+perlDreameryes, it's called CSS18:08
SDuensinI'm trying.18:08
+MrHairgreasehmm, the style seems to be a mix between modern realism and postapocalyptic neopurdyism18:08
+bartjolthat'll put 30% of all webbuilders without work18:08
+bartjolwhich css?18:09
+perlDreamerWebGUI itself doesn't care what it looks like18:09
+perlDreamerit's all just styling18:09
+MrHairgreasebart: http://allplay.jaegertech.net/purdyroundies.css18:09
SDuensinIt's some javascript/css stuff I found and then I did an article template that lets you easily set the style.18:10
+perlDreamerI'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a business of selling WebGUI style packages18:10
+perlDreamerSDuensin, sounds like a great thing to put in the Bazaar18:10
SDuensinOnce it no longer sucks, sure.  :-)18:10
+perlDreamerI put up the sortable DataForm template before it was done18:11
+perlDreamerand some people actually fixed the bugs for me18:11
+perlDreamerDon't sit on it until it's perfect, otherwise it'll never get done18:11
SDuensinRight now, you put the extra style details in the "Summary" field of the article.18:12
SDuensinJust feels "hacky" to me.18:13
+perlDreamerwhy not put it in the extraHeadTags?18:13
+perlDreameror in the template itself?18:13
SDuensinBecause it's per-article.18:14
SDuensinWTF is Swiftysite?  Google doesn't know them.18:14
+perlDreamerSwiftysite is someone peeling off the top of WebGUI, restyling it, and selling cheap website in the Netherlands18:14
+perlDreamervery, very nice people18:14
+perlDreameryou should come to a WUC and meet them18:14
SDuensinI'd like to.  But they should talk to Google, too!18:15
+perlDreamerwell, if any of the guys come into the IRC room, I'll point that out to them18:18
+perlDreamerhang on18:18
+perlDreamerwhen I type in swiftysite into google, it's the first result18:18
+perlDreamerthat's them18:18
+MrHairgreasehere as well18:18
+perlDreamermaybe SDuensin has thick fingers or something18:18
SDuensinReally?  Trying again!18:19
SDuensinOk, you guys just added it.  :-P18:20
+bartjolyeah, we plugged into googles db18:20
ckotilswiftysite is powered by webgui?18:21
ckotilthat's awesome.  ive used it a time or two. dont understand a lick of it, but it makes great websites18:21
+perlDreameryay! slow support day.  I'm going to get tons of hacking done18:24
+perlDreamerwell, for me, it is haCKing18:26
SDuensinThe Wrath of Koen!18:26
+perlDreamerI try not to begrudge Calvin Klein the use of my initials18:26
+bartjolwe lumberjack with it18:26
ckotilpd!  you to?18:26
+MrHairgreasewell, have fun with your purdy turds18:27
* MrHairgrease is off!18:27
* bartjol follows him on the feet18:27
+perlDreamerme, too ckotil18:27
+perlDreamerlater, you Nederlanderin18:28
+bartjolwe're male18:28
ckotilwe share initials with the mild manner Clark Kent too18:28
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+perlDreamerMrHairgrease, should I have said Nederlanderer?18:29
+MrHairgreaseand now18:30
+MrHairgreaseits 18:30
+MrHairgreasetime 18:30
+MrHairgreaseto GO and enjoy my free time!18:30
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r35e1e8c / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SyndicatedContent.pm : Fix SC use of RssFeed role. - http://bit.ly/bRsiNQ18:38
SDuensinFree time?  Wazzat?18:40
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf17fc5c / (12 files): Update Macros for wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/be1S8Z18:48
+perlDreamerthat's when you work on Free Software projects and drink beer18:48
SDuensinMust be nice.18:49
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r360acb5 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Use wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/ak9xmy18:51
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3d9006b / (3 files in 2 dirs): Update Auth system for wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/bR4sER18:53
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd5dd260 / (2 files in 2 dirs): More instanciator cleanup. - http://bit.ly/9iW39m18:55
SDuensinThere he goes talking about WebGUI FS again.  Evil tease!18:56
+perlDreamerah, quit griping, break out yer keyboard and start hackin'18:56
SDuensinI know, I know!18:57
SDuensinI have a list of things I want to do to WebGUI that's a mile long.18:58
SDuensinRun CNN.com through the story manager?  Does CNN know about this?  :-)18:59
mducharme-workwhen did 7.8 go stable18:59
SDuensinLast week, I believe.19:00
mducharme-workI've been out of it for a few weeks and suddenly everything changes19:00
mducharme-workany gotchas for upgrading from 7.7.30 up through the current 7.8?19:00
+perlDreamerany known ones where fixed in 7.8.14 2 days ago19:01
SDuensinYes.  You have to make a stop at 7.7.33, I believe.  Whatever the last 7.7.x is.19:01
+perlDreamerwe need more brave souls to test upgrading on live sites for us19:01
SDuensinI was going to be brave last night, but the kids had other plans.19:01
+perlDreamerpreaction: I'd really like to use Test::Sweet, but prove doesn't like i19:05
mducharme-workok, upgrading to 7.7.3319:13
+perlDreamerSD, if you want a project to help WebGUI out, start a wiki page with a list of all known upgrade points and stop versions.19:15
SDuensinThat'll be a short list.  I only remember 7.7.33!19:16
mducharme-workI'm trying to install Locales::Country like mentioned in the gotchas19:25
mducharme-workcpan says no such package found19:25
mducharme-workis that the wrong name for it?19:26
@preactionmducharme-work: just use testEnvironment.pl, if that works, Webgui will work19:27
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mducharme-work7.8.3 --------------------------------------------------------------------    * WebGUI now requires Locales::Country 0.05 or higher to use the UPS shipping driver.19:30
mducharme-workguys, that is a typo in the gotchas19:31
mducharme-workthat should say Locale::Country19:31
mducharme-workI think19:31
mducharme-workbecause I'm able to install "Locale::Country" but "Locales::Country" does not exist19:31
mducharme-workshould I open a ticket for the typo?19:33
* SDuensin sighs - the roadmap wants to move configs out of the database and into the config files. Go the other way!19:36
mducharme-workoops.. not a typo, a newer gotcha says that was replaced with an older one19:36
mducharme-workthis really should be simpler19:36
mducharme-workI hate parsing manually through gotcha files desparately trying to make sure I do not miss any perl module requirements19:36
mducharme-work7.8.14 here I come19:40
mducharme-workany new storymanager templates in 7.8.x by any chance??19:42
* SDuensin has no idea.19:46
mducharme-workwoo, everything works19:46
mducharme-workupgrade went very smooth19:47
mducharme-worknow to upgrade my other client's server19:47
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mducharme-workall done20:07
mducharme-workall my servers are at 7.8.14 now20:07
SDuensinNice!  Now you're making me feel lazy!20:09
+perlDreamermducharme-work, Locales::Country should have been replace by Locales...20:28
+perlDreamerlet me check on that20:28
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mducharme-workperldreamer yeah it was but the old gotcha is still there20:36
mducharme-workthjat says to install Locales::Country, so I was trying to do that20:36
+perlDreamerhm, perhaps the newer one should be made clearer20:36
mducharme-workI go through the gotchas in sequence from oldest to newest when I am looking at what to upgrade20:36
mducharme-workso I saw the older module before the newer one20:37
+perlDreamerI'll put a note about the change next to the older one, as well20:39
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r109f06c / docs/gotcha.txt : Make the replacement of Locale::Country with Locales more clear, w.r.t the 7.8.3 gotcha. - http://bit.ly/ciTQVf20:54
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kimdEvening, everyone!21:47
+perlDreameryo, kimd21:47
kimdperlDreamer, I like your WNN!21:49
kimdSubscribed to the RSS feed yesterday.21:49
kimdKeep on writing!21:49
+perlDreamerthanks :).  Unfortunately, it's languished for a long time.21:49
kimdYou should advertise it a bit more.21:49
+perlDreamerWhen I started a year ago, I did21:51
kimdI must have missed that.21:52
kimdNo readers?21:52
+perlDreamerno, just lack of time21:53
+perlDreamerwhen my wife started school full time, I lost lots of my spare time21:53
kimdHm, spare time is a precious good.21:54
kimdI wished I had more.21:54
kimdBut now to something completely unrelated:21:54
kimdIs there a switch statement in perl?21:54
+perlDreamerin 5.10 there is21:54
@preactionthere is in 5.10, given/when21:54
+perlDreamerand in 5.8, there is a perl module called Switch, but it's a source filter and can suffer from performance and other issues21:55
kimdDoes that mean I should not use it?21:56
kimdI mean, the Switch module?21:57
kimdWe are still using 5.8 in the wre, correct?21:57
@preaction5.10 actually21:57
@preactionbut we only require 5.821:58
@preactionWebGUI 8 can require 5.1021:58
kimdI assume that means I should not use given/when yet?21:59
+perlDreamerif you want to make custom code for your own server, go ahead and use it21:59
+perlDreamerbut any 5.10 specific features have to wait until WebGUI 821:59
+perlDreamerno say, smart match, given/when, regexp improvements, etc21:59
kimdI see. Thanks for your answer.22:00
+perlDreamerit's a bummer, for sure.  which is why we should all work hard on getting WebGUI 8 out as soon as possible22:02
kimdJust having my first git experience.22:21
kimdWhy did we switch from svn to git? I found that svn was alright.22:22
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kimdNow I have to learn the next versioning tool.22:22
kimdNot that I want to complain...22:23
kimdIt's all about flexibility these days.22:23
+perlDreamerthat's one of the reasons we switched22:23
+perlDreamergit is very flexible, and it's incredibly fast compared to svn22:24
+perlDreamerthere are some very nice tutorials for svn users who want to switch to git22:24
kimdWell, since I have no choice... Learning keeps you young, doesn't it?22:28
+perlDreamerYeah, it does22:40
+perlDreameralthough sometimes it can make you prematurely old22:41
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r669f803 / t/Definition/Asset.t : check for get, set, update in Definition/Asset.t - http://bit.ly/crtio922:45
+perlDreamerHaarg, somehow in Definition/Asset we're losing get, set and update from Definition::Role::Object22:46
+perlDreamerI committed a test to check that22:46
+perlDreamerand will soon be converting the Definition tests over to Test::Class for more robust testing up and down the chain22:46
@Haarghttp://gist.github.com/322094 does this help?22:48
+perlDreamerand I'm kind of glad it didn't, because that would mean no composite roles22:51
* perlDreamer takes a lunch break22:52
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kimdA question for the template experts:23:07
kimdWhat happens if a hash value set to undef is passed to template processors.23:08
kimdWill that cause problems are just result in an empty template var?23:08
kimdI am asking because I have a template var previousFile that may be empty if there is not previous file.23:09
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kimdOk, let's leave this question open for today.23:29
kimdGood night everyone!23:29
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+perlDreameryo, rizen01:14
@rizensorry for the delay, just having a chat with stevan01:26
+perlDreamerno sweat01:28
+perlDreamerI was almost ready to ship you a liver01:28
@rizenooh, me like liver. at least if it's from a child of no more than 12 years01:29
+perlDreamerthis one is 11, so a little old01:29
@rizenstill tender though01:29
+perlDreamerwhat happens at 12?01:29
@rizenthey go sour01:29
@rizenat that point just grind them up and make dog food01:29
+perlDreamerwell, the current liver owner is shaping up, so perhaps I'll have to order and the Frau some takeout Thai food01:31
@rizenamazing, i was just thinking that myself01:32
+perlDreamerlean a little closer to the screen, and I can tell you what you want, too01:33
+perlDreamerno, closer still01:34
+perlDreamerSarah wants Pad Thai01:34
+perlDreamersomething interfering with the pickup01:35
@rizenactually she doesn't01:35
@rizenshe's been getting other stuff lately01:35
@rizeni think she must be sick01:35
@rizenthe pad thai is sooooooo good01:35
+perlDreamerPad Khee Mao is better01:35
@rizennext time i'm in oregon i'll make you prove it01:35
@rizengotta go01:36
+perlDreamerYou're on.01:36
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf5f1839 / (t/run_asset.t t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm): Begin converting t/Asset.t over to Test::Class - http://bit.ly/aZZ7a401:37
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r006bda8 / t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm : More Test::Class tests for AssetBase.pm - http://bit.ly/bykELB02:08
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r053b5a8 / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Asset.pm : Rework get_tables to check each and every property. - http://bit.ly/dajC5c02:08
+perlDreamerHaarg: even if I just try to apply Definition::Role::Object in Definition/Asset, it still doesn't provide get/set/update/etc02:09
+perlDreamerthey're not applying in Definition.pm, either02:12
+perlDreamerat least it's consistent02:17
+perlDreamerit was the d7b0d93a commit02:23
+perlDreamerso now we have no warnings, but no roles, either02:23
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+patspamhow advanced is wG's static html exporting capabilities/03:40
@preactionpretty advanced, the entire US embassy websites use it 03:41
@preactionwhat do you need?03:42
@preactionthere's even the Widget macro to get little parts of dynamic content inside all the static content03:42
+patspamsorry phone rang03:58
+patspamcan it export a tree of page layouts and articles?03:58
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@preactionof course04:05
* patspam reads AssetExportHtml.pm04:06
+patspamone day I should sit down and scan the source code from top to bottom, there's lots of stuff in here i never knew existed04:06
@preactionheh, yeah, there's a whole lot in there that i forget about ;)04:15
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+perlDreamerMrHairgrease, I thought you might be at the Dutch perl workshop today18:06
+MrHairgreaseI was planning on going18:07
+MrHairgreasebut I ended up staying in Delft18:07
+MrHairgreaseBetter luck next year18:07
+MrHairgreaseand I _am_ going to the yapc18:07
+MrHairgreaseeu that is18:07
+perlDreamerwhere is it this year?18:10
+perlDreamerDo you drive, train or fly to get there?18:14
+MrHairgreaseIf I attach my vacation I'll prolly go by car18:15
+MrHairgreaseotherwise I'll fly18:15
+MrHairgreaseit's about a two day drive I gues18:15
+perlDreamer13 hours, 9 minutes18:17
+MrHairgreasetoo much for one day anyway18:18
+perlDreamergotta go and help Kathy, bbl18:18
+perlDreamershe lost her phone at the train station18:45
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@Haargfinally figuring out POE a bit better.  using it for a silly personal project.19:14
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+perlDreamerWhat do you all think of that post on the webgui.org forums, about the site redesign for the dating site?20:19
+perlDreamerSPAM, or legitimate request for help?20:19
+perlDreamerHaarg, what does the init_meta method do?20:25
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3c790d9 / t/Definition.t : Add Role presence tests. - http://bit.ly/coUsoK20:29
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * recd3158 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): Applying class metaroles before the other roles seems to do the right thing. - http://bit.ly/bjIRXl20:29
@Haargit initializes the metaclass instance for the class20:30
+perlDreamerthat's the problem20:30
+perlDreamerwe can't apply roles yet20:31
+perlDreamerthere's no meatclass20:31
@Haargby the time our code gets called, there is a metaclass.  but altering it definitely could interfere with the roles.20:32
+perlDreamerwell, when I applied the metaclass roles first, it started working20:32
+perlDreamertests pass20:32
+perlDreamerI'm going to add some role analysis code to the Definition tests20:33
+perlDreamernext question has to do with JSON in the database.20:34
+perlDreamerThe subscribable asset does this by interfering with get and update20:34
+perlDreamerI was thinking that perhaps a Trait would be better20:34
@Haargnot sure the best way to do that though20:36
+perlDreamerme either.20:39
+perlDreamerwe could use around around each property that stores the JSON20:40
+perlDreamerbut that seems like a hassle20:40
+perlDreamercoercion and via look nice, but they're only one way21:32
+perlDreameryou can put it in as a datastructure, but you get back JSON21:32
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@frodwithTrait that arounds the accessor sounds like the way to go to me.22:56
@frodwithwhy is it a hassle?22:57
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@Haargi probably need to do some extra work for that.  traits on properties don't work right now.23:16
@Haargshouldn't be too bad to fix though.23:16
+perlDreameras long as the trait puts it around the property, that's fine.23:54
+perlDreamerif I have to do it one by one, that's not so fine23:54
--- Day changed Sat Mar 06 2010
+perlDreamerI had a different idea while cooking dinner00:00
+perlDreamerif properties had a trait called 'should_serialize', then the write method would query the property, and then it would know whether to call the standard accessor, or the serialized accessor00:00
+perlDreamerthat way, you can get to the raw data, and not have to jump through hoops with the write method needing to manually serialize the data00:01
+perlDreamerI was thinking of Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::ArrayRef::JSON00:01
+perlDreamerand similarly for HashRef::JSON00:02
+perlDreamerand then we have something we can give back to the community via CPAN00:02
+perlDreamerany way, I need to go pick up my sons at school00:02
+perlDreamersee you all later00:02
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb5e03dd / lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm : Remove dead method with the same name as a property. - http://bit.ly/afusHD00:42
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6f9b891 / t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm : Convert more tests over to Test::Class - http://bit.ly/bFsCFd01:17
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r029655d / asset_status.ods : Add a sheet to track Roles. - http://bit.ly/9KVKsz01:17
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Gettybefore i do something bad, can i install it via CPAN? cause the webpage "recommends" to use that but i dont know if that includes cpan way of install03:39
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+perlDreamerGetty, you cannot install WebGUI from CPAN.05:09
+perlDreameryou can download a full VM, you can download the WRE (which is basically application level install with full software stack) or you do a "source install" where you download the WebGUI source, install the modules, configure apache, mysql, set up the filesystem and run it yourself.05:10
Gettythe middle version, please, where is the exit? ;) j/k05:11
Gettyok so i got already a running environment05:11
Gettythen i should prefer the source install if i know what i do in general? ;)05:12
Gettyi wanted to install it via CPAN on a local::lib path for the webserver vhost, so that would be then source install of modules + local::lib with the same result, right?05:13
Gettyor is there anything special that blocks that plan?05:13
+perlDreamerfor the WebGUI modules, no05:16
+perlDreamerbut several of the support scripts expect to be close to the lib directory05:16
+perlDreameras in ../lib only05:16
+perlDreamerif you know what you're doing in general, you can do a source install05:16
+perlDreameralthough one other reason to use the WRE is performance05:16
+perlDreamerit sets up two different servers, one small one as reverse proxy and static file server, and one "heavy" one to handle mod_perl05:17
Gettybut it would collide with my personal install?05:17
+perlDreameryou can set your environment to keep them separate, except for MySQL05:18
+perlDreamerit depends on what you want to do with it05:18
+perlDreamerif you want to tinker, a source install is best05:18
Gettyactually microsite, private, no hits05:18
Gettyi just want to use a perl CMS05:18
+perlDreamera source install is right up your alley then05:18
+perlDreamerdownload WebGUI05:18
Gettyand start doing what i prayed now on the cebit for 1 week05:18
+perlDreameruntar it in /data05:18
+perlDreamerrun /data/WebGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl to check for requirements and/or install them05:19
+perlDreamerthat page has all the gory details05:20
Gettya little bad that noone actually told me about WebGUI before the CeBIT05:22
Gettycause the "CMS" stuff was a theme from time to time and we didnt had any suggestion beside Bruccolage or how its written05:23
Gettyi was there representing perl05:23
+perlDreamerour promotional efforts for WebGUI wax and wane05:24
+perlDreamertwo years ago they did the whole conference tour in the US05:24
+perlDreamerand came to YAPC EU in portugal last summer05:24
Gettyoh cool, so that isnt that bad for you05:24
+perlDreamerno, but more users is always better05:24
Gettyyeah but CeBIT is actually really big as you know probably05:24
Gettyactually we took lots of contacts with us of people and companies who wanna do more with perl05:24
Gettyand now i got WebGUI as something to show, actually with that installer process you said its really an awesome idea05:25
Gettybut i must dive into it to REALLY value it, cause i also do own CMS activities (which i didnt promoted on CeBIT ;) ) and do the CMS agency business since the stuff is there, i'm very critic05:26
+perlDreamerwell, feel free to come back with questions, comments and criticisms05:26
Gettyi stay here :-P05:26
* Getty never leaves ;)05:26
+perlDreamerwell, feel free to say here and ask questions, too ;)05:27
Gettyhehe ;)05:27
Gettyits 4:30 here, at 8:30 i must getup for the "last breakfast" with all other perl dudes of cebit before we leave hannover05:27
Gettyand i didnt slept more then 4-5 hours the last 5 days05:28
Gettyi'm so wasted05:28
+perlDreameris that pretty common for a CeBIT?05:28
Gettyif you want to promote perl AT ALL COST, yes05:28
Gettyi did many contacts via drinking at the after show parties05:28
Gettythat was actually my speciality of the crew05:28
Gettybut that way i opened up a dialog to IBM, lets see whats come out there05:29
Gettyand russia and macedonien05:29
+perlDreamercool.  Someone was been adding to the Russian WebGUI translation recently, but it is still low in overall coverage05:29
Gettyon russia i got mainly contact to research and development of russia, dont know how much "CMS" they actually need05:30
Gettywe are also more there to open a dialog05:30
Gettyits about knowing what is missing for more perl on business05:30
Gettybtw: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl-Staff05:30
+perlDreamercool, open-source conference staffing05:36
Gettyi made the t-shirts and will make more for other events05:37
Gettyi like webgui, i mean the presentation is awesome05:42
Gettyi need sleep n805:44
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elninoso. I have an article asset, with a flv and a jpg attachemnt. I was hoping I could get the flv by using attachment.url and the image by using image.url, or do I have to use the attachment loop, and chech for isimage and assume that when false, it's the flv? Make sense?07:51
@preactionheh, CeBIT sounds like the last WUC I was at08:41
* preaction only missed 4 hours of presentations due to hangover08:41
@preactionwhich reminds me i have to register for the next YAPC08:41
@preactionelnino: use the loop, it's more reliable08:42
elninook. thanks preaction.08:42
* preaction wishes you could just put those attachments inside the article yourself08:42
elninoI remember such conversation not to long ago.08:42
@preactionyeah, it still hurts08:43
@preactionit will hurt until it gets fixed08:43
@preactionif i could nuke all of WebGUI 7 and 8 and rebuild it all from scratch...08:43
@preactionoh wait, i'm already doing it... http://github.com/preaction/modern-webgui08:43
elninoyou are a very busy person.08:44
@preactionnot really, haven't worked on that in 3 months :'(08:47
elninoperhaps that is true at github, but I know here you are.08:48
@preactionwell, yeah i'm working on other stuff08:48
elninoI'm calling it quits. Too much fun for the weekend. Putting video site together using flowplayer. kinda cool.08:49
@preactionheard good things about flowplayer, but yeah, it's sunday now, get some rest sheesh08:49
elninoso is github the new sourceforge?08:49
@preactionpretty much yeah08:49
@preactiongit is soooooo much nicer than svn08:49
@preactionlike ten thousand percent nicer08:50
elninohmm. I'll look at git later..  Good night!08:52
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Gettyso... finally home from cebit, now i can checkout webgui and check if i can make a webpage with blog in an hour ;)20:05
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doc777Hello friends. We recently upgraded to 7.7.33-stable and all our log in boxes, most of the user profile boxes, and the create account boxes are at 100 pixels now.  They scroll off the side of the page.  This seems to be the case in admin settings as well.  Did I miss something? 21:24
GettyLOL that is really purposed that if i do: perl testEnvironment.pl --help i get the source in my viewer? ;)21:38
Gettyah no, i see, its a debian workaround for people who dont have perl-doc, so ok :) never came to that21:41
doc777Anyone know why our username boxes all went to 100 px after our upgrade?  The text boxes scroll off the side the page :o)22:23
doc777I upgraded to 7.8.14 to see if it would help but they are still the same looks like.22:24
Gettydamn it, the parser cant read my config22:58
doc777lol, there is a setting in the Admin > setting >ui now for Text Box Size   and it was set to 100.  After an hour of digging through templates and macros I found it  :o)22:59
Gettybad question: does it actually require 5.8? or does it also work with 5.1023:01
doc777What are you trying to do? :o)23:03
@preactionGetty: 5.10 is fine23:03
Gettyi dont get it, what he has as problem, the json itself looks fine23:07
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@preactionGetty: paste your config file23:13
Gettyyeah mom23:14
@preactiontrailing commas is usually the culprit23:14
Gettythe last trailing comma?23:14
Gettycause i put it in cause it was also on the page23:14
@preactionthat's your entire config file?23:15
Gettyi do a source install23:15
Gettygoing after the help in the wiki23:15
@preactionyes, but you have to start from WebGUI.conf.original23:15
@preactionotherwise here you have no assets, no admin console items, no nothing really23:16
GettyAH! i missed that step23:16
Gettyok thta would explain it probably ;)23:16
@preactionalso, the entire thing is a hash, so it should be surrounded with { ... }23:16
Gettytrue, but my brain is just half working, i just went after the doc23:17
Gettyand missed one step ;)23:17
@preactionit happens. problem is that most of this stuff is easy to determine (or easy to ask for), so we should really have a script to create site configs (and generate apache or other configs from a wg site config)23:18
Gettyyeah its all a bit shacky, but you guys seem to concentrated on the features ;) cause it took hours to install all the modules ;)23:20
Gettyfor example i was confused that this preload script really needs a fix of the path23:21
@preactionyeah, that's my biggest pet peeve23:22
Gettynow i got a problem23:22
Gettyi now have it working, and it directly startups the config (logical).. and i made that all on my live site hehe23:23
Gettyi mean i stopped it now23:23
Gettyaehm.,... mmhh.. must allow my ip only.. baeh stress....23:23
Gettyor wait, can i force that with the adminip?23:23
Gettyso that noone else get the admin?23:23
Gettyi mean that init stuff23:23
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@preactioni think that's what that is for23:24
Gettyok lets see23:24
@preactionand when you change config, remember to restart apache23:24
Gettybad to test hehe23:25
Gettyits stopped right now anyway23:25
Gettyspectre actually only uses spectre.conf right?23:25
Gettyso restarting of him is not often required? or what is the regular way to go for him?23:26
Gettydont know what that daemon does23:26
@preactionno, it reads the other configs to know where to go, but unless you change the sitename or spectreIp or spectreSubnets you don't need to restart spectre23:26
@preactionspectre is the offline execution engine, like cronjobs but also things that take too long to do in realtime with the user waiting for a page response23:26
Gettyah nice idea23:27
Gettydoes it really use IKC? cause i saw that module on the list of required stuff23:28
@preactionyes, in order to pull status requests from outside (using the same spectre.pl script you can get the status of spectre)23:28
Gettyit doesnt work with the admin subnet23:31
Gettyi tried it with lynx on the server and still so the init config :-/23:32
@preactionoh, the admin bar doesn't work with lynx, it's javascript-only23:32
@preactionadmin mode requires javascript23:32
@preactionhowever, a quick ssh tunnel could fix that up for you23:32
@preactionthat's usually what i do when i need to get around The Big Firewall to administer some stuff23:33
Gettywait wait23:35
Gettyi'm still at the config23:35
Gettyfirst startup23:35
Gettythat i wanted to have blocked to a specific IP23:36
Gettycause i do that all here on a live system (my private site, so who cares)23:36
Gettybut i got regulary hits23:36
Gettydont want someone else to config my stuff ;)23:36
Gettynow i made allow/deny in the apache223:36
Gettythat stuff is heavy23:47
Gettyawesome work23:47
Gettyi'm impressed23:47
Gettyright now i just got total overflow, now idea where to start really23:49
Gettybut ok it runs... ;)23:49
Gettybut the admin menu is totally confusing and actually now i got even an error about the display23:52
@preactionhttps://www.plainblack.com/services/training/webgui-primer <- free webgui primer might help23:55
@preactionbut the error, pastebin that and i'll see what's up23:55
Gettyits just displaying error, the cascading failed, or it was just to slow loading, dont know, didnt happened so far23:58
Gettybut the menu is confusing, that always the left side "goes away" and you stand in the middle of nowhere23:58
Gettyactually i have totally no idea how i edit the menu so remove add new files there or delete the existing one23:59
Gettyah that is no error23:59
Gettyif i watch the navigation emnu .. yeah ok.. i get it23:59
--- Day changed Mon Mar 08 2010
Gettyey is there a "make anything empty" button? ;) lol00:00
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Gettyre good morning and all :) more activity now?10:36
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+perlDreamerHey, SDuensin18:14
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+perlDreamerpreaction: what kind of evaluation did you do with HTML::Packer when used with HTML::Template?19:02
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+perlDreamerbartjol: I did some remodeling work this weekend.19:26
+perlDreamerI still hurt19:26
+perlDreamerNo pictures are available, either19:27
+bartjolah, 19:27
+bartjolhow did it hurt?19:27
+bartjolon your eyes?19:27
+perlDreamerno, crawling on rafters in the attic19:28
+perlDreamerhands, knees, elbows19:29
+perlDreamerneck, back, legs19:29
+perlDreamerI needed to reroute some electricity to a new outlet19:32
+perlDreamerfor a new microwave19:32
+bartjolin the big hole in the wall19:32
+perlDreamerbecause we killed the old microwave by putting it on a heavily loaded circuit19:32
+perlDreamerfortunately, no big holes19:32
+bartjolI thought you made the hole, to fit the microwave in19:33
+perlDreamerwe took out part of a cabinet19:33
+perlDreamerthis weekend, during the install, I'll take some pictures19:33
+bartjolI mainly stuggled with a driver today, but I won!19:34
+perlDreamerdriver?  Van, bus, bicycle or car?19:37
+bartjolbluetooth computer driver19:38
dionakare you remodeling your kitchen perlDreamer?19:38
+perlDreamerwe are adding a new microwave over the stove19:38
+bartjolbut I'm off, have fun19:38
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dionakwe're prepping to gut our entire kitchen at home. maybe starting april or may19:44
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dreamersgirlit's quiet today.20:13
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+perlDreamerdionak, we'd like to do that too21:04
+perlDreamersomething about rough finished plywood cabinetry from the '60s is just not that appealing anymore :)21:04
dionakyea, we're feeling the same perlDreamer.21:06
dionakmust have been cool & hip at the time21:06
* perlDreamer is thinking "cheap", "quick" and "easy"21:07
+perlDreamernone of the cabinet or drawer faces have trim work. so the plywood has chipped21:07
dionakwe've already done the cheap, quick and easy. it's time to do a bigger overhaul so we can quit getting annoyed by not being able to walk through the kitchen when the fridge is open. ;)21:13
dionakit's going to be an undertaking to say the least..21:13
dionakquick question...21:13
dionakcould the upgrade of WebGUI be enhanced to check to see if tables exist before trying to create them?21:14
dionakseems like that would make upgrading easier21:14
+perlDreamerit would certainly help with repeating upgrades, or handling hand backported code21:15
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+perlDreamerand it would be more of an enforcement check than anything21:16
+perlDreamersince so many different authors contribute code21:17
+perlDreamerwe'd have to review the table insert code by hand21:17
dionakyou mean table create?21:17
+perlDreamerare you still having upgrade hiccups?21:18
dionaki'm thinking that before anything is done, a sub should execute to check that any table creations do not already exist21:18
dionakdamn thing is working now when it should be broken. ;)21:19
+perlDreamerI hate it when that happens21:19
dionaklol, yea21:19
+perlDreamerlike when I do electrical work at home, and it works the first time21:19
+perlDreamerI don't know whether to be proud, or suspicious...21:19
dionakor if it will come back to bite me later21:20
+perlDreamerAm I having deja vu, or didn't we talk about this last week or so?21:20
+perlDreamerthe solution was to drop the database before rerunning the upgrade21:20
+perlDreamersince importing the backup code will not remove the new tables21:21
dionakyea, we did. this is the first chance i've had to work on it. it's more of a data corruption issue with orphaned assetIds in the db21:21
dionaki've been writing a script to find orphans so i can address them and either 1) find a home or 2) remove them21:21
dionak.. by either21:21
dionake.g. - there's an entry in assetData but not asset for an ID21:22
+perlDreamerseems like there are so many cases21:22
+perlDreamerasset, but not assetData21:22
+perlDreamerassetData, but not Asset21:22
+perlDreamer... not Wobject21:22
+perlDreameror not table specific21:22
+perlDreameror in those tables, but not asset;21:22
+perlDreamerand the worst will be Photo, or Newsletter21:23
dionakwhy's that?21:23
+perlDreamersince they are Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo (4 tables)21:23
+perlDreamerAsset/Wobect/Collaboration/Newsletter (also 4 tables)21:23
dionakok, now you're just pushing me away perlDreamer :/21:24
+perlDreamerno, I don't mean to do that21:24
dionakit's a pita21:24
dionak(not kidding)21:24
+perlDreamerone of the wg8 suggestions was to flatten the tables21:25
+perlDreamerand make them non-, uh21:25
dionakwhat about innodb?21:25
+perlDreamerinnodb is slower in performance, I believe21:25
+perlDreamerthe goal of this was actually to speed it up21:25
+perlDreamerby not spreading the data across several tables and thereby dropping the joins21:26
+perlDreamerI want to say it was 8x faster21:26
dionakhow much slower is it to work with given the added complexity? or does it make it simplier?21:26
+perlDreamerit's simpler21:27
+perlDreamerwriting only writes to 1 table21:27
+perlDreamerand reading only reads from 1 table21:27
+perlDreamerno joins21:27
+perlDreamersearching is now much more difficult21:27
dionaki definitely think that asset and assetData could collapse21:28
+perlDreamerwouldn't it be weird to have versioned and unversioned data in the same table?21:31
dionakhm, you're right21:33
dionaki have a script now that mostly figures out orphaned data. going to test it on a staging server now21:33
* dionak needs coffee21:36
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd0884af / (10 files in 3 dirs): Do not remove newlines from Templates (or Snippets) since HTML::Packer does not handle newlines with H::T syntax. Fixes bug #11458 - http://bit.ly/du0jQ921:39
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1e4fb86 / (10 files in 3 dirs): Do not remove newlines from Templates (or Snippets) since HTML::Packer does not handle newlines with H::T syntax. Fixes bug #11458 - http://bit.ly/ayCW6v21:39
+perlDreamerHaarg, it happened again, only backwards this time21:41
+perlDreameron the 7.7 upgrade, since there was no import node in the package none of the isPackage or isDefault properties were set21:42
+perlDreamernow, since there is an import node, EVERY asset below import had isPackage turned off, and isDefault set to 121:43
+perlDreamerwhat we need is metadata out of the package21:45
+perlDreamera list of all assetIds that it touched21:45
+perlDreamerand then we post process those alone21:46
+perlDreamerso it no uses lineage at all21:46
+perlDreamerwe could also add more options to importAssetData, like "clearPackageFlag" and "setDefaultTemplate"21:53
+perlDreamerHaarg, preaction, I'm leaning pretty heavily toward adding options. In lieu of any feedback, I'll decide when I come back from a run.22:01
@preactionthe options sounds fine to me22:01
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CIA-58webgui: Luke Robinson master * rc61e745 / (8 files in 4 dirs): An Ajax check on the username field at registration - http://bit.ly/9aF0WD01:25
CIA-58webgui: Luke Robinson master * rc03bcc3 / (3 files in 3 dirs): 01:25
CIA-58webgui: use the FormHelper instead of the Auth system for the Ajax check01:25
CIA-58webgui: on Username - http://bit.ly/az9kKr01:25
CIA-58webgui: Luke Robinson master * r240eb10 / www/extras/form/fieldCheck.js : call getWebguiProperty('extrasURL') - http://bit.ly/ckBI7A01:25
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CIA-58webgui: Doug Bell master * rc8ad650 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : added changelog entry - http://bit.ly/9OFNuE01:29
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rcf43e5e / (6 files in 3 dirs): Reset the isDefault flag on core assets only, and provide a final way fix this crap once and for all. - http://bit.ly/9KUaFI02:32
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3113905 / (3 files): Prune duplicate code for post package work. - http://bit.ly/9GqmMQ02:32
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r84704d2 / (4 files): Fix syntax errors, and remove duplicate code from the skeleton. - http://bit.ly/9Lebud02:32
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfe31cc9 / (5 files in 3 dirs): Reset the isDefault flag on core assets only, and provide a final way fix this crap once and for all. - http://bit.ly/dBPDML02:37
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdf31846 / (2 files): Prune duplicate code for post package work. - http://bit.ly/ahh2Zb02:37
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2053d3e / (3 files): Fix syntax errors, and remove duplicate code from the skeleton. - http://bit.ly/dbNxFm02:37
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r35492ca / (3 files in 2 dirs): Remove old WebGUI 7.7 files - http://bit.ly/9yt3Vo02:37
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8f95101 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Allow the default Search root to be overridden by a form variable. Adds RFE #11460. - http://bit.ly/bPBryq03:09
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+bartjolmorning scott16:30
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+bartjolcool, someone tried to sell us virtual servers17:59
+perlDreamerbartjol, you _need_ virtual servers17:59
+perlDreamerthey are so much better than real servers18:00
+bartjolwell, we need them allright, otherwise we haven't got anything to sell18:00
+bartjoloh, and a conscience question: which bathroom looks better, mine, or Tavis's?18:01
+perlDreamerI've never been in Tavis's bathroom, so I couldn't say18:02
+perlDreameris he advertising it somewhere?18:02
+perlDreameryou bathroom is much better than any of mine, however18:02
+bartjolit was also on facebook18:02
+bartjolany of yours....18:03
+perlDreamerbartjol, I don't have a facebook account18:03
+bartjolyour wife has18:03
+bartjoljust hack into her account18:03
+perlDreamerafaik, hacking (even into a wife's account) is illegal18:04
Gettylegal, illegal....18:04
+perlDreamerlegal, illegal18:04
+perlDreamergood, evil18:04
+perlDreamermatter, antimatter18:05
+perlDreamerpolar opposites18:05
Gettyjedi, sith18:05
+perlDreamernow, dead vs partially dead is about details18:05
Gettyits not all black & white, be darth vader!18:05
+perlDreameror should I say "mostly dead"18:05
Gettyhey, i installed btw webgui now18:05
+bartjolmostly harmless18:05
Gettydirectly run into one big "security" problem18:05
Gettyabout first time install18:05
+bartjolwhich is?18:05
Gettyi'm a geek, so i used my own live site for the direct install, so.... must i talk further?18:06
Gettyi had to make Allow/Deny stuff18:06
Gettyto prevent others from reaching my vhost18:06
Gettythe admin-network setting doesnt work for the install18:06
+bartjolin modproxy you mean?18:06
Gettywith apache stuff, is that modproxy? dont know18:07
Getty<Directory /> Deny....18:07
Gettyyou know what i mean18:07
Gettyi tried before with the admin-network setting in webgui18:07
Gettyand tested18:07
Gettybut this doesnt protect it18:07
+bartjolis that a default apache directive?18:09
Gettyno no i mean in webgui.conf18:13
Gettythere i can setup an admin-network-range18:13
Gettythis is ignored for install, which is bad if you do it directly on a known site18:13
+bartjolwell, if you set such a thing, you want it to work18:15
+bartjolI haven't used that option yet18:15
+perlDreamerexcept it doens't cover that18:15
+perlDreamer"admin network" is the network setting that allows/prevents people to go into Admin mode18:16
+perlDreamerit does not cover setup/install18:16
+perlDreamerbut that sounds like a good feature to add18:16
+perlDreamerGetty, development for our next version is currently open, so if you want to file an RFE at webgui.org/rfe, it will be considered18:16
+perlDreamerof course, RFEs filed with patches are much more likely to get added more quickly18:17
+bartjolwell, since that is always on a port 60834, we open that only in our firewall for ourselves, which might not be very save as default18:17
+perlDreamerbartjol, this is WebGUI install, not wreconsole18:17
+bartjolI thought that used the same port, learned something again18:18
+perlDreamerno, all that stuff is served over port 80 via a content handler18:18
+bartjolwell, then it isn't a very save feature18:19
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+perlDreamermaybe we should consider it a bug18:19
+perlDreamerit seems low risk, since you have a limited window of opportunity18:20
+bartjolbut I always do a "mail to all" when I install webgui18:20
+bartjoltime of day I suppose18:21
GettyperlDreamer: i'm involved into many projects and go more and more into the "oh dudes i fill up your bugtracker all day so that you will hate me" dude, even tho i dont see much wrong on your side so far18:22
Gettythe other "big problem" i see and which you probably already know is your <censored> admin interface18:22
Gettyits totally confusing where to find what and if you edit something its different again, that is a bit chaotic18:23
Gettyi think this has historical reasons ;)18:23
Gettybut dudes, when i started this stuff now, i want to startup clean, or lets say, i want to setup step by step what i want, that premade site confuses me.... i worked with some commercial CMS with generally followed your concept of coordination for the data, so its all very clear i think when i get into the first steps18:25
+perlDreamerGetty, I'm not sure what you mean by "when you edit something it's different again"18:26
+perlDreamerand we never hate people who file bugs18:27
+perlDreamerif more people filed bugs, WebGUI would be better18:27
+bartjolperlDreamer loves to solve bugs, he eats them for breakfast18:27
Gettyyeah and i will fill bugs, but i think its a good choice, even tho i got my own concepts running, WebGUI should be something that gives a "second leg"18:27
+perlDreamerthe only problem we've had in the past is what some people consider bugs are really enhancements18:27
+perlDreamerand if so, we move them to the RFE board instead of the bug board18:28
Gettyoh i think i will make the definitions right at that point, doing that stuff long enough18:28
Gettybut so tell me... how i would actually get my site empty and can start defining "first page"? or probably i could say what i want in final cause i dont need much18:28
Gettybut i made so much contacts on the cebit and need definitly fast a good page best with a perl CMS so that i can also promote that i did it with WebGUI18:29
Gettysomeone else just suggested me FosWIKI and i dont want to go with kindergarten stuff, i'm enterprise (even for my homepage) hehe18:29
+bartjolin the settings you can define your homepage18:29
+perlDreamerto clear the default content, log in as an admin18:29
+perlDreamerturn on admin mode18:29
+perlDreamergo to Assets18:29
+perlDreamergo to the Root node18:29
+perlDreamerselect the home page18:30
+perlDreamerand trash it18:30
Gettysounds like a plan18:30
+perlDreamerthat will remove all the default content18:30
+bartjoland empty the trash, that's looks nice for your lineage18:30
Gettygood :)18:30
+perlDreamerand frees up the URLs, too18:30
+perlDreamergood call bartjol18:30
+bartjolGetty: you will get stuck with those articles on each site you add18:30
Gettydont get that you wanna say with this?18:31
Gettyyes 18:31
+bartjolah, that every time you add a site18:31
Gettyyou mean its there on every startup18:31
Gettyyeah logical :)18:31
+bartjolthose articles will be there to be deleted18:31
+bartjolindeed :)18:31
Gettybut i think i can bring on a WebGUI module which gives me the chance to say: hey i want my own startup definition, right?18:32
+bartjolsure you can make that18:32
Gettysee, problem solved18:32
Gettytechnology owns!18:32
+perlDreameryou'd have to alter create.sql18:32
+perlDreamerso it's a little more complex than that18:32
+bartjolbut after an upgrade the default file is overridden18:32
Gettyi would actually modify the install procedure that way18:32
+perlDreamerit would be better to run a post-install script that does the dirty work for you18:32
+bartjolwell, I considered that part as logical for a geek :P18:33
+perlDreamerremoving the default content, and installing some other package18:33
+bartjolthat would be a lovely script18:33
Gettywell as professional i would consider as most luxury if i could define my own "install procedure way" which also automatically installs the DB tables without doing any create.sql insert by my own18:33
Gettyyeah i'm the one with the evil wishes18:34
+perlDreamerno, other people have wished for that as well18:34
Gettycan we actually do this with a module?18:34
Gettyor would that go to deep?18:34
Gettyso its a bug18:34
+perlDreamerthe default content is installed with create.sql18:34
+perlDreameralong with the default users, groups, templates, css, settings, etc.18:35
* bartjol is thinking utility script18:35
Gettyyeah but i dont want to put the create.sql myself18:35
Gettyi'm lazy18:35
+perlDreamerthat's what the WRE is for :)18:35
Gettyi want to give him database user/password and he does that for me18:35
+bartjolhe? JT?18:35
Gettyyeah but i'm also offering it on my own facilities ;)18:35
Gettyeven tho i LOVE the idea of WRE18:36
+perlDreamerthat's the tradeoff you make18:36
Gettyits awesome18:36
+perlDreamerbut I'm sure the WRE utilities could be changed to work outside the WRE18:37
+bartjolbut goodday to you sirs18:38
Gettyok i will go to the bank now and then get some red bull18:38
+perlDreamerlater, house-hacker18:38
Gettythen i will try that with cleaning up the content18:38
Gettyandstartup my site18:38
+bartjolsomeone elses house today18:38
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GettyperlDreamer: you stay here? ;)18:39
* perlDreamer will be in and out all day long18:39
+perlDreamerI go the gym, then work18:39
+perlDreamereat lunch, then work18:39
+perlDreamerpick up the children from school, then work18:39
+perlDreamerfix dinner, then work18:39
+perlDreamerit's PWM for employment18:39
Gettyi'm fat, no gym18:40
Gettyi got a dude who cooks for me, eating at computer18:40
Gettyi dont have kids18:40
Gettyand i also work from home18:40
Gettyso.. actually18:40
Gettywhy i stand up? oh yes toilet18:40
+perlDreamerand to get red bull18:40
Gettybut thats flying ;)18:40
Gettyso back on track18:52
Gettyok i startup the WebGUI again on my site18:52
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rf4f3f0c / (2 files in 2 dirs): Handle the edge case when a subscription group has been deleted, but the the Subscribable entry has not been cleaned up. Fixes bug #11456. - http://bit.ly/b9aiWr18:52
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf55acec / (2 files in 2 dirs): Handle the edge case when a subscription group has been deleted, but the the Subscribable entry has not been cleaned up. Fixes bug #11456. - http://bit.ly/aOVFUI18:53
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r58c25e3 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Fix changelog formatting. - http://bit.ly/daFOmB18:53
Gettynow its suddenly german?!19:02
Gettyi dont get it, when i installed it, i choosed german, then it was german, then it was suddenly english everything and now its german again... mh19:02
+perlDreamerGetty, language settings are user dependent19:03
Gettyi just used one user so far19:04
Gettyon the default install19:04
Gettywhat is the root node? isnt it "getting started"?19:04
Gettycause deleting that one wasnt any effect19:04
+perlDreamerno, go into the Admin Console and select Assets19:04
Gettyi am there19:04
+perlDreamerOn the top there's a crumb trail.  Choose Root19:05
Gettya bit small ok get it19:05
GettyHome then delete ok19:05
+perlDreamerthen Admin Console->Trash19:05
+perlDreamerthen select and purge19:05
Gettyits still there19:05
Gettyyeah tried it again19:06
Gettyno effect19:06
Gettyclicked on "Home" then Delete19:06
+perlDreamercheck your log files19:06
Gettyand he does something19:06
Gettyyou say that so easy mom19:06
+perlDreamersorry, standard user debug flow19:07
Gettywebgui.log doesnt throws an error19:07
Gettyi had to search where i have put the logfile ;) i did the install 2 days ago19:07
+perlDreamerit's the log level, it's set too high19:07
+perlDreamerthe problem is that /home is set to be the default page for the site19:07
+perlDreamercreate some other page for now, in the Settings, choose the other page19:08
+perlDreamerthen it will let you delete the default content19:08
+perlDreamereither that, or just delete all content below the home page19:08
+perlDreamertakes more clicks19:08
Gettyok i made a new page19:09
Gettybut it doesnt have the "+"19:09
Gettyi think that is what it needs, or?19:09
Gettyah no that is just there is something under it, ok19:09
Gettynow i'M getting it19:10
+perlDreamerright, + means the asset has children19:10
+perlDreamerhave you downloaded and read the WebGUI Starter guide?19:10
Gettyhttp://www.raudssus.de/ :D19:11
Gettyi want to ;)19:11
+perlDreamerthat gives me a 403 error19:12
Gettyoh yes wait19:12
Gettyreload ;)19:12
+perlDreamermuch better19:15
+perlDreamernow, go to the marketplace page on webgui.org and download a good looking style to install19:16
* perlDreamer goes to the gym for punishment19:16
Gettyhave fun19:16
Gettywhere to upload it now19:18
Gettyi always get error on extracting :-/19:26
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+perlDreamerGetty, if the package is very old, it may not work on recent WebGUI's20:17
+perlDreameralso, it would be good to examine the log files to see what the problem was20:18
+perlDreamera very common user problem is permissions on the upload directory20:18
+perlDreamerthe upload directory and all children need to be writable by the apache process owner20:18
Gettyi had it now with 2 themes20:21
Gettyactually the only 2 themes which i like really20:21
Gettymh ok probably its just that20:21
Gettylet me check log20:22
Gettyyes it is that ;)20:22
GettyAH! wait!20:22
Gettyhe suggest wrong path20:22
Gettyok got it20:22
Gettydamn it again20:23
+perlDreamera whole series from Damian about vim scripting: http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2010/03/whats-the-mad-doctor-doing.html20:28
Gettyi dont get this step: Click on the "class icon" of the page layout asset that is your home page.  The Layout asset is very similar to a page and has an icon on the far left side of the edit toolbar that resembles a piece of paper.  If you hover over this icon, it will say "Page Layout".  This icon is called the "class icon"20:28
Gettyi'm at the page layout asset, and edited it but i dont see that piece of paper icon?20:28
+perlDreamerIt's a little obtuse20:31
+perlDreamerThe class icon is displayed with the other toolbar icons20:31
+perlDreamercut, copy, paste, delete, make shortcut, edit20:31
+perlDreamerif you actually edit it, you won't get the class icon with the drop down menu20:31
+perlDreamerthat will be changed in WebGUI 820:31
@preactiondid we fix the bug that puts "HASH(0xDEADBEEF)" : null, in the config files?20:37
@preactionlooks like it's in the macros part20:38
@preactionthere's also a "null" in the workflowActivities part20:38
+perlDreamerwe did fix that bug20:39
@preactionyou know, why the hell do we define which macros and workflow activities ARE in the config, when we should be defining the ones that AREN'T20:39
+perlDreamerit's just historical20:39
Gettyi still cant see it, but i must reboot my PC now have to cleanup my mess of desk, i be back in 5 minutes, if you could have a screenshot which links to the icon it would be awesome LOL ;)20:40
Gettyso bbl20:40
+perlDreamerif you want a "lean site", you'll exclude a lot20:40
+perlDreamerit's just another aspect of the same problem20:40
@preactionbut most people don't want that, ever20:40
@preactionthe most likely configuration is "everything installed"20:40
+perlDreamerI wouldn't assume that20:41
+perlDreamerpreaction, which site are you seeing the bad config data?20:41
@preactionour config file has 715 lines in it20:41
@preactionthis is for PIRG20:41
@preactionover SEVEN HUNDRED LINES in the config file20:41
+perlDreamerthat's because they have a bunch of CDN stuff in it20:42
@preactionWebGUI.conf.original has over 1000 lines20:42
+perlDreamerthe macros HASH bug was fixed in 7.8.1420:42
ckotil662 /data/WebGUI/etc/globalnoc.iu.edu.conf20:42
+perlDreamerthat's with documentation20:42
@preactionthe point being if this was a perl module, i'd be ripping it to shreds right now20:43
@preactionand to hell with debian's default editor of "nano"...20:46
+perlDreamerThe Underground style from the bazaar is very nice20:48
@preactiondon't thank me, thank the guy who designed it. i just put it into webgui20:48
+perlDreamerthat's another bummer bout the bazaar, no attribution of authorship20:50
+perlDreamerat one point, wasn't there a "more by <username>" link?20:51
Gettybtw are you guys actually interested bringing WebGUI to a (Free) Cloud Service?21:00
+perlDreamerWebGUI is already being used in a Cloud Service21:01
+perlDreamerpeople run it on EC221:01
Gettyah ok, the cloud service i talk about is making it very easy to manage anything, its really cool kodingen.com21:02
Gettyits at the startup, but they have "drag & drop" install of stuff (like wordpress, drupal and so on)21:03
Gettyi just imagined if there would be a drag&drop for WebGUI ;)21:03
Gettyi already made a link to the developers and they already offered a dedicated server where we can "setup" the required setup and they can analyze it for integration into the cloud21:03
Gettyeven tho its not really a cloud service so far, more an open platform for web21:04
+perlDreamerhey, if it lets people use WebGUI, that's great21:07
Gettythey wouldnt block it, the question is what is required21:09
Gettyi think a standard user cant get WebGUI running on this env for easy21:09
Gettybut we could tell them an easy way to make it one of the "one click installer" gadgets21:10
Gettydont know, i'm not a webgui dude21:10
Gettybut they offered testing environments if we need21:10
Gettywait must restart my pc.... again.....21:10
@preactionWebGUI requires a shell and root access to install21:10
@preactionbut to run, just needs the prereqs21:10
Gettyyeah, lets talk about this in 2 minutes ;) 21:11
+perlDreamerpreaction, we need to do something about webguiupdate.pl21:19
+perlDreamerit lets people nuke their sites by skipping the upgrade steps21:19
Gettyso.. where is this icon now?21:32
Gettyi see the assets before me, so admin console => assets21:32
+perlDreamerGetty, what is it you're trying to do?21:33
+perlDreamerApply the style template to the site?21:33
Gettyabout using the page layout21:33
Gettyso i need to find that "class icon"21:33
+perlDreamerokay, the class icon is right on the main page21:33
+perlDreameron the left21:33
+perlDreamernext to the big red X icon21:34
+perlDreameryou don't need to go into the Admin Console to do this, although you can if you wish21:34
Gettyi feel stupid, i dont know what you mean with main page21:34
GettyNOW i get it!21:35
Gettyyes yes ok21:35
Gettyi mean21:35
Gettyi see the icon now21:35
Gettybut when i click i just get a dropdown21:35
Gettywhat function i must click now?21:36
+perlDreamerEdit Branch21:36
+perlDreamerwhich instructions are you following?21:36
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Gettythere it is21:36
Gettyi used the on the wiki about adding theme21:36
Gettyjust need to reopen it now21:36
Gettybut now i get it21:36
Gettyits a bit confusing to find it21:36
Gettybut now i get the concept more21:37
+perlDreameryou can access the same set of instructions from the Asset Manager21:37
+perlDreamerin the Asset manager, there are two labeled links21:37
Gettyits on! :) http://www.raudssus.de/21:37
+perlDreamerEdit, which allows you to edit the asset21:37
Gettyyeah i was in that menu before, but didnt knew i was right21:37
+perlDreamerand More, which drops down the same menu as the class icon21:37
Gettythe way bringing people to the "class icon" is probably a bit hard21:37
+perlDreamerit's faster to use the class icon21:37
Gettyyeah but if you are new you think more of the admin interface21:37
Gettythen really clicking into the page21:37
Gettyif you want to change the complete layout21:38
Gettyits not logical to click something on the "content" of the page to change the "complete page"21:38
Gettyor lets say, that confused me ;) i was on the page searching the icon, but i searched it "at the border of the page"21:38
+perlDreamermaybe the wiki needs some images to clarify it21:39
Gettyor that, yes21:39
Gettyok......... now i see there is no blog content right out of the box21:41
Gettybut i suggest there is some plugin right? :;)21:41
+perlDreamerto build a blog, you use the Collaboration System21:41
Gettyor should i use some other content module which has the same resulting effect like a blog?21:41
-!- SDuensin [~Scott@mobile-166-137-137-049.mycingular.net] has joined #webgui21:41
Gettyok so just for understanding, i just go to the homepage and add the collaboration system?21:41
+perlDreamerthen, configure it to use the Weblog templates21:42
+perlDreamerit's not a beautiful blog, but it works21:42
Gettyi'm a bit confused21:42
+perlDreamerwhat is "mh"?21:42
Gettybut ok i will first add it and then see21:42
Gettymh is an empty word21:42
Gettyits like "mh" => i think about something, "mh!" => i got an idea, "mh?" => what you say?21:43
+perlDreamerah, like "hm" in english21:43
Gettywe german just do it just other around21:43
+perlDreamerwe can forgive you for that.  We owe you for landjaegerwurst21:44
Gettyand beer21:44
Gettywithout our high quality beer you all would be dead already!21:45
+perlDreamerI'm more of a fan of the high quality wurst and baked goods, but since beer is made with grain we can call it good.21:51
Gettyi dont drink beer actually21:51
+perlDreameryou should, German bier is great!21:53
+perlDreamerespecially when it's chasing down some bierwurst, kartoffelsalat und brotchen21:53
Gettyi prefer vodka21:56
Gettymade much business with vodka21:56
+perlDreamerHaarg, I think I'm going to move uiLevel from define to a property, since I want assets to be able to inherit the default uiLevel.22:03
+perlDreameractually, that's another good delimiter between the two.22:04
+perlDreamerproperties are inheritable, while defines are not22:04
+perlDreamerin any case, I'm off for lunch22:05
Gettycan i get a more full fledge RTE?22:39
+perlDreamerGetty, the RTE to use is configurable in the Collaboration System22:41
Gettyso... the intropage of the collaboration system "s***", that "table" with the entries22:51
Gettycan we make it more blogstyle? or just that he lists the entries?22:52
Gettyno idea, something to customize22:52
+perlDreamerGetty, that would be another template :)22:53
+perlDreamerhave a look at perlDreamer.com/blog22:53
Gettymh ok i dont wanna do anything for now22:53
Gettyi got my first blog entry22:53
Gettygimme that!22:53
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+perlDreamerit's just a default template with my site's style added.22:58
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra3614f5 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Move uiLevel from a define to a property so it can be inherited. - http://bit.ly/cp1QD222:59
GettyperlDreamer: and which default template? i mean i use the default collaboration system23:01
Gettyis yours not the same?23:01
-!- SDuensin [~Scott@mobile-166-137-137-049.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]23:01
+perlDreamernope, it's a different template23:01
+perlDreamertry the "weblog" template23:01
+perlDreamerwgd works with WebGUI823:02
+perlDreamernice work, Haarg23:02
+perlDreamerwell, to be specific, wgd ls root/import/collaboration worked fine23:03
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra3aeae9 / (8 files in 2 dirs): Continue change from define uiLevel to has uiLevel.23:07
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3b0e893 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Add T::C tests for File and Snippet.23:08
Gettyoh man i feel a bit fixed23:16
Gettyhaving own application framework and doing all stuff self normally, means always "taking back yourself" if you want to use another system23:16
Gettyactually i just do it to promote perl, i need to use something from perl ;)23:16
+perlDreamerwe all suffer from that23:17
Gettylet me guess23:17
Gettycause i used this design now23:17
Gettyhaving a sidebar23:17
Gettywould be a more complex act23:17
+perlDreamerit would be a different style template23:18
+perlDreamerit depends on what content you want in the sidebar23:18
+perlDreamerit it's a navigation (like used in Underground), it's fairly simple23:18
+perlDreamerif it's more complex, like an RSS feed, twitter stream, etc.23:19
+perlDreamerthen it takes a little bit more work23:19
Gettyi dont know23:19
Gettyi dont know what i want at all somehow now23:19
+perlDreamerif you want a different layout (two column, three column,), that's another template used by the Page Layout23:19
Gettybeing forced to make a webpage makes sick ;) i dont have a target23:19
+perlDreamerand no change to the Style at all23:20
Gettyah ok23:20
Gettyso i can make it 2 col now?23:20
+perlDreamerEdit the Page Layout23:20
+perlDreamerSelect the Display tab23:20
Gettyok wait23:20
Gettyi think i dont do it23:20
Gettyand try to make a footer stuff... or more menu points23:20
Gettydont know23:20
Gettynah i got my blog that is for first something23:20
Gettyi still got a problem about your URLs...23:20
Gettyi got my first "SEO-cry"23:21
Getty/ and /root/home are the same23:21
+perlDreamerwhy is some bot crawling though the root node?23:22
Gettyi mean, there is no redirect23:22
Gettyone should redirect to the other23:22
Gettyno matter which direction23:22
Gettycause there shouldnt be 2 urls with the same content23:22
+perlDreamerremember the default asset that we talked about earlier?23:22
Gettythere i explicit didnt set an URL23:23
+perlDreamerthat's what causing that23:23
+perlDreamerI think not23:23
+perlDreamerthere's another function23:23
+perlDreamerNot Found Page23:23
+perlDreamerthe url /root/home does not exist23:24
+perlDreamerso WebGUI is redirecting you to the page it was told to in the Settings23:24
Gettybut the headline is linking to it23:24
+perlDreamerwhich headline?23:24
Gettythe headline links to /root/home23:24
Gettyand /root/home shows the same page again23:25
+perlDreamertry this...23:25
+perlDreamerAdmin, Turn Admin on...23:25
+perlDreamerAdmin Console, Settings23:25
+perlDreamerAdmin, Turn Admin On23:25
+perlDreamerEdit the main page23:25
+perlDreamerchange the URL to just home23:26
+perlDreamernow, Admin Console->Settings23:26
+perlDreamerDefault Asset => home23:26
+perlDreamernow /home and / will be the same asset, and no root23:26
Gettyin which tab is that?23:26
+perlDreamer2nd or 3rd?23:27
+perlDreamerfrom the left23:27
Gettyah got it23:27
GettyStandard Homepage its translated23:27
Gettybut still the problem23:29
Gettyi think you dont get really what i mean23:29
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Gettyi did lots of SEO stuff in my last companies, actually it was so deep that i was puking all day caring about the details23:29
Gettyone important detail is that one page is not allowed to have 2 URLs, that everything should be unique23:29
Gettyso right now i got 2 URLs (/ and /home) which gives the right content23:30
Gettythat "lowers" the value for google a little bit23:30
+perlDreamerso if a page works as /index.html and /, that's bad too?23:30
Gettyyou have to optimize that away23:30
Getty(if you want to be "TOP" SEO)23:30
+perlDreamerthat's ridiculous23:30
Gettydont tell me ;)23:30
Gettyi just tell what i was told23:30
Gettyfor example23:30
Gettyyou know ?page=1 ?23:30
Getty?page=2 ?page=3 ?page=423:31
Gettythere is alos the same23:31
Gettyyou got: /list and /list?page=1 which shows the same23:31
Gettyso you have to code your list to NOT give a link to ?page=123:31
Gettyinstead always to /list23:31
Gettyelsewhere => 2 urls same content23:31
Gettyan SEO optimizer will critic that23:31
Gettyso best would be if the internal stuff is really redirecting23:31
Gettyfor example the "not found"  asset of course generates TONS of that23:32
Gettyso you MUST redirect to the not found page actually23:32
Gettyso technical i think its easy for WebGUI to optimize that in23:32
Gettyit just needs to redirect to the asset23:32
Gettyinstead of loading it internal23:32
+perlDreamerI think you'd be surprised...23:32
+perlDreamerbut if you really want that, the Requests for Enhancement board is over at webgui.org/rfe23:33
Gettyi actually dont care much, if i dont make a webgui "top seo" site so far, but i think i mention it for you guys cause its some stuff that an SEO company would tell the company that uses WebGUI and this makes bad reputation again :-/23:34
Gettythe people give companies 5000 EUR < or more to make a report that just is full of that shit23:34
Gettyand the so called "double content" mistake is always "on top"23:34
Gettyi will add it to the RFE so that its "listed23:35
Gettybut i already see the 32746243278 comments who says "that is bullshit"23:35
Gettyif i wouldnt have been in that mess, i would comment the same ;)23:35
+perlDreamerthey won't do that23:35
Gettyhehe ok23:35
+perlDreamerwe have several people who sell WebGUI for SEO23:35
+perlDreamerthey'll probably vote for it23:36
Gettywow a totally open registration? no approval link? no check? :)23:37
+perlDreamernope, we trust you23:38
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r87c00d4 / (8 files in 3 dirs): appending to an attribute must quote the + -23:43
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbc71165 / (6 files): Add T::C tests for Redirect, RichEdit,Shortcut,Sku, Template and Wobject. - http://bit.ly/9apyrS23:44
Gettyis it allowed to make negative comments about the webpage layout of webgui.org? ;)23:49
+perlDreamersure, as long as they're accompanied with patches :D23:51
Gettyi could give you a really really cool hint...23:51
Gettythere is a tool out there23:51
Gettywhich... lets say....23:51
Getty"kicks ass" in making layouts23:52
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rffb7945 / (5 files in 3 dirs): Remove leftover definition sub stubs. - http://bit.ly/d1tKmJ23:52
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb60149d / (3 files in 2 dirs): Tests for Image, ZipArchive - http://bit.ly/bFPWyg23:52
Gettyof course its not the tool for very flexible design and the special ones, but it gives out minimum layouts which are a bit nicer then this one you got ;)23:52
Gettyits called Artisteer, you probably heard of23:52
+perlDreamerI hadn't heard of it, but I'm very perl centric23:53
Gettyi integrated it somehow in my framework, so we can make artisteer templates, just copy the css/images and then define the "layout metastuff" in some config23:53
Gettyits just a tool, you use it gets html and done, actually its even not free or opensource23:53
Gettybut its just to good23:53
Gettybut just a fast suggestion, actually i thought that if you support some much web, someone would have sponsored a better layout :)23:55
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdb60905 / (t/run_asset.t t/tests/Test/Asset/File/GalleryFile.pm): Add a test for GalleryFile - http://bit.ly/aJkUB223:59
--- Day changed Wed Mar 10 2010
* perlDreamer will be back in a bit00:01
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@preactionBad Idea of the day: We should lock certain template namespaces to only allow Template Toolkit templates, paving the way for WebGUI to do TT only00:04
Gettydont do that00:06
Gettyjust a big small whatever warning, dont force yourself to TT00:07
@preactionwhy not?00:08
@preactionH::T is a horrible template engine, H::T::E even moreso00:08
Gettyi just say that TT is not the end of the line00:08
Gettyactually at the CeBIT we had the TT theme00:09
@preactionTT allows developers to give objects directly to template, forgoing the necessity for translation00:09
Gettyand i found 2 other perl dudes who also see the problem that TT is mostly a template language for developers not for the designers00:09
@preactioni will agree there00:09
Gettyoh in other languages that is normal for template engines, so actually its just that one step TT does right which others does right all the time00:09
Gettyso you cant take this argument and say TT is the most awesome, there will be another one00:10
@preactionwell, the other "standard" perl template engine is H::T, which is complete crap00:10
Gettyright now i took one of those dudes and we want to make Template::Toolkit::Smarty, to make TT be parseable like Smarty00:10
Getty(to bring over PHP coder and also gain advantage of the knowledge that many template developer already invested in the smarty concept)00:10
Gettycould be that this must be splitted up totally00:10
Gettyi agree that anything beside TT in the perl world is crap00:11
Gettybut i tell you that TT will not stay alone longtime00:11
Gettyit will not attract people, as i said, its made from developers for developers00:11
Gettyprobably the only point the "stupid php coders" can do better, just cause they arent real developers00:11
@preactionlooking at smarty's syntax, i'm not a fan. it doesn't seem much better than TT's syntax00:12
Gettythere are slightly differences which just make it more easy for many people in that sector00:12
Gettycheckout "Dwoo"00:12
Gettywhich is a next-step of smarty00:13
@preaction{section ... loop=$theloopvar} <- really?00:13
Gettysection is deprecated00:13
Gettyits just historical there00:13
Gettystill they are stupid php coders ;)00:13
Gettyits not about the functions00:13
@preactionuh... so then why is it in the "Crash Course"00:13
Gettyits about the syntax00:13
Gettycause they are lazy coders, the crash course was made very ver early and noone made a new one i guess00:14
Gettyactually i dont have read the crash course at all00:14
Gettyand i also dont care, smarty developers are very closed00:14
Gettythe gag is, i can introduce smarty to a non-developer faster then TT (i actually had the chance to test this several times)00:14
Gettyone big problem is the missing $00:14
Getty$var is something non-developers understand more then just put in var, especially if they do the same for a command, it just confuses them00:15
Gettyof course its "cool"00:15
Gettybut just for a developer who anyway switch just the "internal brain parser" for templates00:15
@preactionokay, now i'm looking at Dwoo and it looks like TT with different characters00:15
@preactionsigils would be nice in TT, yes00:15
Gettyyeah thats why we think it gets easy to make a TT with Smarty/Dwoo syntax00:15
Gettywe just need that $00:16
Gettythat is what the other dude is working on00:16
Gettyi personal HATE TT i must say00:16
Gettyi worked with smarty now several years, and TT just S*** for me...00:16
Gettyi see the power, i dont say its bad00:16
@preactionprovided you just add sigils, that'd be perfect00:16
Gettyits just bad for ME ;)00:16
Gettyyou could help him, or probably help us bringing that in00:16
@preactionwell, i think a lot of times developers don't think about how their objects will be used in the template00:16
Gettyactually on PHP the people use objects to massive00:17
Gettycause for example00:17
Gettythere is one big problem with objects usage in template00:17
@preactioni can't replace H::T in webgui yet. it's an 8+1 thing, not an 8 thing00:17
Gettyone very very big00:17
Gettytemplate parsing cant have proper error handling00:17
@preactionwell, obviously one can't have a template cause a side-effect, ever. never direct db access00:17
Gettyso if your object triggers a DB call and the DB call fails it would be a very "fucked up" moment inside the template00:17
@preactionuh... why not? you shouldn't be able to do anything to CAUSE an error, that's the thing00:17
Gettybut lets think in a bigger scale00:18
Gettyyou got 100 developers00:18
@preactionyou should never be able to write to the DB, and reading should be through existing methods00:18
Gettyand now you change a common function of an object00:18
Gettyto use the DB00:18
Gettyanother coder might not know00:18
Gettyand use that function of the object in template00:18
@preactionthere's the wrong thing right there. you should probably be using an ORM00:18
Gettywait wait00:18
Gettyforget ORM forget anything00:18
Gettyreplace DB with "otherServiceThatCouldCauseError"00:19
Gettyits a general thing00:19
Gettythe Object can do whatever the object wants todo00:19
Gettyif you hang it into the template00:19
Gettyyou can never CONTROL that00:19
@preactioni understand, i do. laziness causes deferred errors00:19
Gettycause its job of the object00:19
Gettywhat would be cool00:19
Gettyand perfect00:19
Gettyis 2 objects00:19
Gettylike you got one and if the object goes to template it gets converted00:19
Gettyyou make a "switch" inside the object concept00:19
Gettyi thought about both once00:19
Gettybut both are a bit "crazy"00:19
Gettybut it would be important to define a "rule" for that00:20
Gettyso that this never can happen00:20
Getty"out of concept"00:20
Getty(beside someone breaks the concept)00:20
Gettyif you just say "use objects in template" you cant prevent that problem00:20
Gettythere must be a bit more of a ruleset for that00:20
Gettyso that both sides (people who uses object just before the template and the people who uses it in template) never run into that error00:20
@preactioni've thought the same, most likely i'll have the Model objects have a method to tell the template which bits are available, which are not, etc...00:20
Gettyone way00:20
Gettywhich is most easy00:21
Gettywould be ->TemplateFunction()00:21
Gettyso if you call: $obj->function() in template00:21
Gettyit calls: $obj->template_function()00:21
Gettyif its not there it calls ->function()00:21
Gettyso you can "block" functions out00:21
Gettywhich would cause active action00:21
Gettyor other around00:21
Gettyyou can deny that he search for ->function()00:21
Gettyand you need to define what is exported00:21
Gettythat was my smallest solution00:21
Gettyso be very very careful about what you "propagate"00:23
Gettyif you once start to push massivly on the object into template train00:23
Gettyyou cant stop it00:24
Gettyit is like giving people PHP00:24
Gettymore and more code goes into the template (or is called at template level)00:24
@preactionexcept for, as mentioned, templates will never be able to modify anything. a template on one page request cannot affect any other page request00:24
@preactionthat's the rule00:24
Gettyif you "just have object" inside the template00:25
Gettyyou cant prevent it00:25
@preactiongetters, not setters00:25
Gettyyou cant prevent it00:25
@preactionit's a translated object, but translated automatically00:25
Gettyyeah but then you can just call ->toArray() on all objects00:25
Gettythat is what i do inside my framework, i dont assign objects (only "Text" objects)00:25
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@preactionso yes, there is a translation to set up, a TT context or what-have-you, but the idea is that to the Developer, it's done automatically, and to the Designer, it just works00:26
Gettyyes of course, but then its not more or less then arrays in the template00:26
Gettyeven tho, if you "think perl" its just a blessed hash ;) and this is an object so.. yes ok00:27
Gettyif i think other around its more logical00:27
Gettyit just needs a special way of objects00:27
Gettylike XX::XX goes to XX::XX::Template00:27
Gettyso that you can add custom function to the template object00:27
Gettyif you dont have ::Template, then its just a hash00:27
Gettythis would be something very acceptable in my eyes, and very powerful00:28
Gettyif that was something you thought about00:28
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4beab18 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm : Fix uiLevel in Folder. -00:58
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rffe4e7f / (13 files in 4 dirs): fix uiLevel tests, and loading multiple sessions. -00:58
@preactionperlDreamer: you were gone: any opinion on making certain template namespaces TT-only01:12
+perlDreamerin 8, or 7?01:12
@preactionso we can do things in the templates that only TT allows01:12
@preactionin 8, for the Admin Console template01:12
+perlDreamerI had thought that the TT conversion was dropped for 8?01:13
@preactionit is01:13
@preactionthat's why i want this, so I can make a new template that is TT only and use TT features01:13
@preactionand we can slowly move our templates to TT-only, and then finally remove the other engines01:14
+perlDreamerthat sounds more painful than doing it before the release01:14
@preactionthere are two "floating features" for the 8 cycle. TT and Auth01:14
@preactionwhat about it sounds painful? i need dissenting opinions01:15
@preactionit is a little bit of work up-front, but it enables us to start making our new apps and templates TT-based, and then shove everything old into TT-land01:16
+perlDreamerso the plan would be to have new namespaces, that only TT templates could be placed into01:18
+perlDreamerand on every site, we're going to enable the TT plugin via templateParsers01:19
@preactioncorrect, TT would now be absolutely required to run WebGUI01:19
@preactionconsidering 8 as a transition period01:20
@preactionwhich is really what it is, and always has been01:20
+perlDreamerif I was a user, and you told me I had to learn two template systems for 2 years, I'd be frustrated01:20
@preactionjust like 6 was, only hopefully not as chaotic01:20
@preactionyeah, that would be a down side01:20
* perlDreamer opines for all or none01:21
@preactionso is that the problem? our default templates are H::T and the cargo-culting is keeping us locked in?01:22
+perlDreamerno, doing a two-year transition on something difficult like a templating language01:22
@preactionso do it quickly like pulling off a band-aid01:23
+perlDreamerright, all, or none01:23
+perlDreamerthere's a fairly good H::T translator out on the net, already01:25
+perlDreamerthe missing piece is the variable translation01:25
+perlDreamerbut I'm confident that since we know the namespace, and the user of the namespace that it can all be fixed, automatically01:26
@frodwithi thought the difficulty is that we have a huge legacy codebase of H::T templates that we don't want to convert01:26
+perlDreamerany custom template, yes01:27
@preactionwe Do want, we don't have time for right now01:27
@preactionwell, yes, custom templates as well01:27
+perlDreamerthe core templates are easy01:27
@frodwithoh I see the difficulty01:27
@frodwithwe'd have to at the very least provide an automated converter to people01:28
@preactionit's either this, or during 8.1, 8.2, 8.5 we make all the default templates into TT templates and then say "yeah, fix your templates cuz 9 will make TT only"01:28
+perlDreamerif we do that, I think we'll lose users by the droves01:28
@preactioni want to give them TT template examples or some INCENTIVE to migrate before we drop the hammer01:28
+perlDreamerthe TT conversion alone is going to be difficult, but forcing them to use both at the same time?01:28
+perlDreamerit'll drive them nutso01:28
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4fa1e00 / (10 files in 2 dirs): Add Wobject tests. -01:30
@preactionwell, for example we had the Shop migration in 701:31
@preactionand we're planning on the same for Auth in 801:31
+perlDreamerbut that's all in 1 shot01:32
+perlDreamernot staged in pieces01:32
+perlDreamerwe didn't part of Shop01:32
+perlDreamerthen another part01:32
+perlDreamerand then a 3rd part01:32
+perlDreamerimo, people think about the templates as 1 chunk, not broken out by namespace01:32
@preactionright, but there are 100x more custom templates than there are custom shop or auth modules01:32
+perlDreamermaybe it could be done in 2 chunks01:34
+perlDreameradmin console templates01:34
+perlDreamerand asset templates01:34
+perlDreamerbut I don't think it can be done namespace by namespace01:34
@preactionright, but you're also saying that we shouldn't make the default set TT and still allow H::T01:34
@preactionin one shot01:34
@preactionthis isn't something we got to figure out now, i just wanted to get to use some of the TT features. nobody changes the AC template, mainly because it's easy to break01:35
@frodwithit doesn't really matter what the default is, does it?01:35
+perlDreamerIf I came across that way, I apologize.  What I meant to object to was a long transition period between the 2.  I think it should be one point release.01:35
@frodwithpoint is as long as we support H::T, our TT implentation must be crippled01:35
@preactionbut you still feel that it could be an 8.x release01:36
@preactionyes, i'd be bypassing the WG::A::T::TemplateToolkit01:36
+perlDreamersure, like 8.0.5, or 8.0.6, but not more than one point01:36
+perlDreamerthe TT implementation will always be crippled, until we decide which path we're going to take01:36
@preactionwell, it'd probably have to be a minor release, not a bugfix point01:37
+perlDreamerdo we put logic in the template, or not?01:37
@preactionand Auth is still on the table for a minor release of its own01:37
@preaction"logic" is a misnomer, there's always logic in the template01:37
@preactionit's the policy of "no side effects"01:37
@preactionbut even that... we allow Macros to have side effects :p01:37
@frodwithwell, TT templates can happily munge data01:37
@frodwithH::T can't do much in that area.01:38
@frodwithso you have to mangle your template variables to make it happy01:38
@preactionand munging is fine, good even. anything in the template should not affect any other page request ever01:38
@frodwithif we threw out H::T support, we could stop mangling our template vars.01:38
+perlDreamerhow are the template variables "mangled"?01:40
@preactioninstead of having to make all the year, month, day, monthDay, dayOfWeek, etc... we could just give a Date object (or whatevz)01:42
@preactionwe also have to translate from arrays into arrays of hashrefs, because that's all H::T can do01:42
@frodwith[ { key => 'foo', val => 'bar'}, { key => 'baz', val => 'qux' } ] instead of { 'foo' => 'bar', 'baz', 'qux' }01:42
@frodwithcomes to mind01:42
@preactionit can't do hashes, or just normal arrays01:42
@preactionthere's also more laziness we can do, instead of generating everything even if nobody ever uses it01:43
@frodwithnot to mention the horrific things you have to do in H::T in that situation if you want to access something in there by its key01:43
+perlDreamerhow many users do we have doing that?01:43
@preactionah yes, the "field.noloop.<fieldname>"01:43
@preactionthe DataForm does it everywhere01:43
@preactionThingy also comes to mind01:44
@frodwithbefore I talked hDP into switching to TT for all their stuff, it was all over their stuff01:44
@preactionooh, didn't know about that one01:44
@frodwithI mean, it's not like it takes too much time to compute that stuff, but it makes the code more complicated than it has to be.01:45
+perlDreamerand moves that code into the templates01:46
+perlDreamerwhere users have to deal with it01:46
@frodwithin what way?01:46
+perlDreamerI don't think that's a good solution01:46
@preactionno, the code is still in the module, it just only gets evaluated when the template wants it01:46
@preactionbut in any case: I will not be adding a namespace-locking to allow me to get around our current horrible template practices01:47
@frodwiththe only reason we create the noloop crap and the arrays of hashes stuff is to get around H::T being unable to represent them.01:47
@frodwithyou wouldn't have to include the logic in the templates, you'd just use the hashes directly01:47
@frodwith(or the arrays, or what-have-you)01:48
+perlDreamerif that's the extent of it, just variable access, that doesn't sound that bad01:48
@preactionhttp://gist.github.com/327301 <- here's an example based on WebGUIx::Form and editing assets01:48
@frodwithwell, TT buys us some other stuff (being able to pass in coderefs or locked down blessed objects, which is very handy)01:49
@preactionforms <- all the forms. forms.edit_asset <- the asset edit form01:49
@frodwithnone of which we can use while we support H::T because of lowest-common-denominator.01:49
@frodwithhere's a stupid idea:  we could provide a set of backcompat variables for the core classes that we'd like to change, as mixins or roles or something, and tell everyone to change them because those are going to go out of date in X point releases01:51
@frodwithand then eventually just drop them01:51
@frodwithor stop distributing them anyways01:52
+perlDreamerif time is important, I don't think we should spend it refactoring the code into addons that we're just going to drop.01:52
+perlDreamerwe should spend that time doing translation01:52
@preactionyeah, if we're really gonna shake up the core of WebGUI in 8+1, we may not even have a translation path at all01:53
@frodwithi guess no one is forced to upgrade until they can fix their templates01:53
+perlDreamerwe've always helped people with that in the past01:54
+perlDreamerwould you want to hand edit 100's of templates?01:55
+perlDreameror even dozens?01:55
@frodwithno, ugh.01:55
@preactionand we'll help them in the future, but depending on how drastic the internal changes it may be difficult01:55
@frodwithwell.  what about this:  mechanically translate everything to TT without changing any of the variables in one release01:56
+perlDreamerthat sounds good01:56
@frodwithand drop support for H::T.  that gets us all using TT at least.01:56
+perlDreamerwe can always make individual changes in other releases01:56
+perlDreamerand do it one at a time.  DataForm, Thingy, Profile, etc01:56
+perlDreamerjust one at a time, and all in the same system01:56
+perlDreamerbut that's back to what preaction said that we don't have the time to do01:57
@frodwithmechanical translation from H::T to TT is automatable01:57
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfe5085f / (3 files in 2 dirs): Tests for Gallery and HttpProxy - http://bit.ly/9Gsf8s01:58
@frodwithand we could provide a service for people to do their custom templates with, as well.01:58
+perlDreamerwhen you throw in the variable translation (taking out the dots) it becomes more difficult01:58
@preactionwell, we can have 8.1 do the TT conversion, 8.2 do CS, Thingy, DataForm, 8.3 do Layout, Article, etc..., 8.4 do ..., 8.5 ... etc...01:58
@frodwithI have a script that managed it for all of HDP's templates that works remarkably well01:58
@frodwithwith just regexes01:58
+perlDreamerthen it sounds like we're done :)01:58
@frodwithI'm sure there's cases where it breaks, but generally speaking01:59
+perlDreamerwait a sec01:59
@preactionbut that still leaves me at using H::T for the new AC templates01:59
+perlDreamerwe've only been talking about two of the axes01:59
+perlDreamerwe also need to handle H::T::Expr01:59
@frodwithnone of the core templates rely on that little bastard, do they?01:59
+perlDreamerno, but it's a core plugin that we've encouraged people to use in the past02:00
@preactionno, the AC template is one of those "Hyre Be Dragyns" one02:00
@preactionohh, hte02:00
@frodwithah, so lots of people use it, meaning we'd want to provide a mechanical translation for that as well02:00
+perlDreamerthat was the original goal, complete mechanical translation of H::T{,::E} to T::T with variable name changes02:00
@frodwiththat doesn't sound too technically difficult, you could get it perfect if you wrote a real parser02:01
@frodwithvariable renaming is just dots to underscores, right?02:01
+perlDreamerpreaction: I think you could design a new AC template using TT, but it would have to use the existing variable set, or be prepared to upgrade custom templates (SwiftySite, etc.)02:01
+perlDreamerfrodwith, I think so02:02
+perlDreameri was going to use the list of template variables in the Help/ to figure out what needed to be translated, for efficiency02:02
@preactionthe new AC template is not compatible with the old, at all02:02
@frodwiththat's where you were going with namespace locking, eh preaction?02:02
@frodwithCan't use H::T for AC templates02:03
+perlDreamerwe've done things like that in the past, haven't we?02:03
* perlDreamer looks in the gotchas02:03
@frodwithwell, if first release of 8 was TT only, here's a translator for your old templates02:03
@frodwithyou could do AC temnplates in whatever style you pleased02:04
+perlDreamercheck out the note in 7.7.02:04
@frodwithsince new AC isn't backwards compatible with the old one at all02:04
+perlDreamerin 7.6.4, we deleted all custom profile templates in favor of the new Account system02:05
+perlDreamerin 7.6.3 we reworked the SC, and migrated templates02:05
+perlDreamer7.5.0 changed the Event templates and didn't translate02:06
@frodwithand there's expectation for some breakage in a new major rev02:07
@frodwitheven outside of the history02:07
+perlDreameryeah, I think you can nuke the old AC templates02:07
+perlDreamerjust be sure to update the template variable help02:07
+perlDreamerfrodwith, re breakage, I submit the WebGUI 6.x series02:08
* preaction vomits uncontrollably at the mention of 6.x02:08
* frodwith hasn't been around that long, thank God.02:08
+perlDreamerwhere we lost a large fraction of developers02:08
+perlDreamerand I don't know how many customers02:08
@preactionneither was I, but i've dealt with the fallout02:08
+perlDreamerand the difficulty in upgrading 5.x to 7.x sites02:09
@frodwithwell there's -some- breakage and there's breaking everything gratuitously02:09
@preactionwell, we're also stating outright exactly what is going to break and how02:09
+perlDreamermaybe all of my thinking isn't as generous as I'd like to believe02:09
+perlDreamerjust not wanting to have to get stuck doing it myself02:10
@frodwithdo we have a lot of folks customizing the AC extensively?02:10
@frodwithhe asked curiously?02:10
@preactionno, they shouldn't ever. it's not really possible without breaking things02:10
@preactionthe new one will be less fickle than that02:10
+perlDreamerI wouldn't doubt that AMH does02:11
@preactionbut that's because the template will be loaded once, then everything will happen inside of it02:11
+perlDreamerthe SwiftySite folks02:11
@preactionthey did the SwitfySite02:11
* preaction is slow02:11
+perlDreamerpreaction: why not break out the partner's list and ask?02:11
@frodwithyes, probably.  but they're also really smart.02:11
@preactionno, it's not an "ask" thing. it's happening. no matter how i have to do it the AC is being rebuilt02:11
@preactionthey've all known since last year02:12
@preactionthere were the specs released and everything02:12
@frodwithoh, preaction.  So young, so naive.02:12
+perlDreamertrue, but at that point they also thought we were doing a full automated translation02:12
@frodwith"If I warn them a year ahead of time, they can't possibly complain!"02:12
@preactionuh... to what?02:12
+perlDreamerH::T{,::E} to T::T02:12
@preactionfrodwith: not that, but there's no "asking". they were told, i don't ask anymore02:13
@preactionah, well, that... is just unfortunate02:13
@preactioncomplaints can be directed to the nearest brick wall, which will be more responsive than I02:13
+perlDreamermaybe we need to give the community at large an update in changes to plans?02:13
+perlDreamerto remind and reset expectations?02:13
@frodwiththat's probably the least customized set of templates, I'd imagine02:13
@preactionperhaps a "State of Eight"?02:13
+perlDreameralso, isn't it WUC announcement time?02:14
@frodwithbut then, I haven't worked with most of our users.02:14
* perlDreamer hits the showers, I'll backlog later02:14
@preactionwait, i think one of our customers changed the blue in the AC to the older blue because people didn't like the new, darker blue02:14
@frodwiththat's not even a template change, is it?02:15
@frodwithjust css?02:15
@preactionright, but the only way to get to it is the template02:21
+perlDreamerjust wait til TWG gets their hands on it02:42
+perlDreamerthey'll fix it02:43
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8806883 / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.8.13-7.9.0.pl : Fix a synax error in the upgrade file. - http://bit.ly/9s2ArF02:47
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+perlDreamerHaarg, I could use some help with uft8 issues in 7.903:01
+perlDreamergoing to see if I can duplicate it with the WRE03:01
+perlDreamerbut on Ubuntu, we added a new test failure this week03:01
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8e253e5 / t/Content/SiteIndex.t : Remove unused diagnostics. - http://bit.ly/bzWKIF04:46
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4df0c51 / t/Content/Setup.t : Finish clean-up testing. - http://bit.ly/caXmDg04:48
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+perlDreamerI think it's funny that the Apache request object has an assbackwards method05:08
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+perlDreamerSynQ_: do you have your new car?05:22
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elninosince when was there a separate login template? - is there a way for it just to defaul to the site's template?06:19
elninooh. they really messed this up. I see..06:22
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+perlDreamerunless there are any objections from the floor, I'm going to release 7.9.007:01
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7b40c8b / (3 files in 2 dirs): fix upgrade script, and SQL scripts. - http://bit.ly/bK82PX07:08
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ref81e69 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.0 release. - http://bit.ly/9GW8wH07:08
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reccf6a5 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.1 development. - http://bit.ly/9gKUSq07:45
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-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.8.14-stable | 7.9.0-beta | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com08:29
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+bartjolSDuensin: do you perhaps know where I could have found that the 7.8.13->14 upgrade wasn't very wise to do, if I want to go beta?16:40
+bartjolnot that I didn't manage offcourse16:41
+bartjolbut it takes more troubles16:41
SDuensinNo idea bud.  I think going beta at any time is trouble.16:41
+bartjolwell, it is only for my test server16:41
+bartjolso I know what problems to expect later16:42
+bartjoland become less of a problem16:42
+bartjolpro-active error making :)16:42
* SDuensin has still been too lazy to even get to 7.8.16:42
+bartjolAh, I wanted that awesome language features16:43
+bartjolthe guy that made those must be a superhero16:43
SDuensinOther than English, I only speak programming languages.16:43
+bartjolah, but you can practise to speak webgui in 4 languages, not very convenient in bars...16:44
+bartjolhey baby, Enter the attribute that should be used for each record in LDAP to  uniquely identify a user. This field is used for auto creating user accounts for users already in  your LDAP repository when they attempt to log in and for finding users who sign up for the site via the anonymous  registration feature if it is enabled. In almost all cases this  attribute is 'dn' and should be entered as such.16:46
+bartjolnope, not a very catchy opening phrase16:46
SDuensinYea, but if she understands it - keep her!16:47
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Diggyhi, all16:48
SDuensinHey Diggy 16:49
Diggya few weeks ago, i got on the channel to ask about plans for a new VM version of webgui16:49
Diggyi've had problems upgrading my VM version16:50
* SDuensin remembers16:50
* bartjol not16:50
Diggysome kind soul on the channel suggested upgrading to v. 7.6.35 first16:51
Diggytoday i'm trying that, and have run into problems16:51
+bartjolwhat kind?16:51
+bartjolwhat version are/were you at before?16:52
Diggyget through the upgrade process, but when firing off spectre.pl --daemon, got the following:16:52
Diggy"Use of uninitialized value $pidFileName in -e at spectre.pl line 104.  No pidfile specified in spectre.conf"16:53
SDuensinYea.  That's actually a known issue.16:53
Diggycan i fix?16:53
SDuensinYou need to find the conf file for it and add that line.16:53
* SDuensin doesn't remember offhand where it is. Will try and find it!16:53
+bartjolfor the conf file16:54
Diggybtw, going from v. 7.6.20 to v 7.6.3516:54
+bartjoland WebGUI must be able to write where you put the pid file16:54
+bartjolthe webgui user that is16:54
SDuensinYea.  Open /data/WebGUI/etc/spectre.conf and add a line...16:55
+bartjolmaybe root writes it16:55
SDuensinThe last line in mine prior to the new one is "ignoreEnvProxy".  Put a comma at the end of that line...16:55
SDuensinOn the next line, put:16:55
SDuensin"pidFile" : "/tmp/spectre.pid"16:55
SDuensinThe last line in the file should just be a closing brace:  }16:56
Diggyno, WebGUI writes to it16:56
Diggybeautiful, that worked!16:57
Diggythanks so much16:58
* SDuensin cheers!16:58
+bartjolwe are awesome16:58
SDuensinOur pleasure.16:58
Diggynow, can i upgrade 7.6.35 to the very latest?16:58
Diggyand you a r awesome!16:58
+bartjolwell there is at least a stop at 7.7.3316:58
SDuensinI think so.  Might want to snapshot that VM first.  :-)16:58
Diggyok.  any gotchas?16:59
SDuensinOH!  I misread that!  7.6.x to latest, no!  What bartjol said.16:59
Diggygreat ;-(16:59
+bartjollook in github at 7.7.3316:59
Diggyok.  thanks for the tip on snapshotting the vm.  didn't think of that :-017:00
Diggywill do.  this is a giant step for me-kind, tho17:00
SDuensinWebGUI is worth the effort.17:01
Diggyi agree!  that's why i've been so bummed at my inability to upgrade17:01
+bartjoloh, i see that in that gotcha it only goes to 7.6.1117:01
+bartjolso there'll be an overlap17:01
Diggyi do like the rapid development afforded by the vm17:02
Diggyi don't understand bartjol's point17:02
+bartjolthat there will be some steps that you've already taken17:03
+bartjolin that gotcha17:03
Diggyso, those are behind me then?17:03
+bartjolyeah, but only partially17:03
+bartjolso get the 7.6.35 and 7.7.33 gotchas next to each other and compare17:04
* ckotil takes note. 17:04
ckotilim at 7.6.3517:04
ckotilbeen stuck for a while17:04
Diggylooking at gotchas for 7.7, i see that a fair number of perl mods have changed/are required17:06
Diggyscary, ew scary :-)17:07
+bartjolwe've heard some problems about testEnvironment not installing modules probably17:07
+bartjolso manual might be better17:07
SDuensinReally, bartjol ?17:08
+bartjolafraid so17:08
+bartjolsome forum posts I believe17:08
+bartjolnot sure, maybe that is for specific wre buiilds17:08
Diggyerm, does that mean that if i do a manual install 0f 7.7.33, that testEnvironment wiil fetch the proper modules (sorry if that's a dumb*ssed question)17:09
+bartjolit should17:10
Diggyi might as well give it a rip17:10
+bartjolbut you have to run it :P17:10
+bartjolif it failes, switch to manual17:10
Diggyuh, sorry again, i don't understand.  i'm prepared to do a manual install of 7.7.3317:11
+bartjolno, manual perl module installation17:11
Diggyyeah, of course17:11
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SDuensinJust try it and see what happens.  If it doesn't work, we can help you with cpan.17:12
Diggyhopefully, Dag repo has them.  CPAN can be a PITA at times17:12
Diggyappreciate the offer17:12
Diggyyeah.  well known repo for CentOS/RHEL packages17:13
Diggyaka rpmforge17:13
Diggyyou could look it up :-)17:14
+bartjoloh, the build-essentials package is essential for debian17:14
SDuensinOh.  I don't do RPM.  :-)17:14
+bartjolfor the make program17:14
Diggyah.  well, the webgui vm appears to be built on CentOS 517:14
+bartjolah, I don't have any routine with that17:16
Diggya repo RPM is available from the repository.  it creates the repo file needed for yum to get to Dag repo17:17
Diggythen "yum install pkgname"17:17
Diggyor,, grab individual perl modules (if available) manually, and use rpm to install17:18
Diggyquite simple, really17:18
Diggyok, so i've got the 7.7.33 tarball17:19
Diggyready to try manual install (cheers and encouragement :-) ?)17:20
SDuensinIs that the next stop point?17:21
* SDuensin doesn't know.17:21
Diggyyou mean, is 7.7.33 the next stop point?  from what bartjol said above, it is17:22
* bartjol thinks so17:22
SDuensinThen rock on!  You're very safe with a snapshot.  Remember the snapshot?  :-)17:22
+bartjolif there isn't anything else in the gotcha17:22
Diggysnapshotting as we speak17:25
+bartjolhey patspam, wre 0.9.4 is being copied17:26
SDuensinOh no!  That means more upgrades!  :-P17:27
+bartjolSDuensin: that is a trial version, only for nice people :P17:28
SDuensinOh, I won't be nice then.  :-D17:28
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@Haargpatspam, what kind of condition is your plack webgui in?  i've been messing with plack a bit recently and was thinking about spending some spare time on that.17:38
+patspamhey haarg17:38
+patspamI started playing with it again the other day17:38
@Haargi looked around at the code a bit but wasn't sure how close to fully working it was17:38
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+patspamthe Plack::Request api changed, so the old version was broken17:38
+patspambut Plack::Request is stable now17:38
+patspamfor PlebGUI I localised the changes as much as possible17:39
+patspammost of wG still thought it was using Apache2::Request etc..17:40
+patspamfor wg8 we should rip out a lot more of the guts17:40
@Haargyeah, i gathered there was a lot of compatibility code which we will hopefully do away with17:40
+patspamit's going to be mostly straight forward17:40
+patspamthe only time consuming part I found was trying to find documentation on what the APR methods do, to try to map them to equivalent Plack::Request methods17:41
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+patspamI'll push up what I've done recently17:42
+patspamthe other thing is17:44
+bartjolfor next time, where is it announced that there will be an upgrade script from stable to the first beta, I can manage to get it done easily, but I do have to read the scripts to see what is already done17:44
+patspamplebgui was branched off 7.8.117:44
@Haargluckily most of the large scale webgui 8 changes have been in assets so merging shouldn't prove too difficult17:45
Diggyupdate - d*mn CPAN barfed! --> "Install of CSS::Minifier::XS failed!"17:45
Diggyshall i try to install from CPAN shell with "force"?17:46
SDuensinBe nice about it first.  :-)17:46
@Haargwas that in the CPAN client or through testEnvironment?17:47
Diggyyes (sorry for the swearing :-)  - sanity thing17:47
SDuensin"Tension breaker!  Had to be done!"17:47
Diggyoh, sorry, testEnvironment17:47
Diggytrue dat17:48
@Haargfrodwith, i should probably file a bug for it but the tests for POE::Component::Server::PSGI seem to fail on windows17:48
@Haargtry installing it with the CPAN shell, and if it fails pastebin the results17:48
Diggyok, trying now17:49
Diggyeek.  first CSS::Minifier::XS u=install barfed because YAML wasn't installed.  did that.17:53
Diggythen it barfed for some other reason.  see pastebin/ieAzYujw17:54
@Haargyou have an actual link i can use?17:57
@Haargeither that or it didn't post correctly17:58
Diggysorry about that.  try freebsd.pastebin.com/rVsKFfA918:02
+MrHairgreaseyou don't have a c compiler18:02
+MrHairgreasewhat distro are you on18:03
SDuensinMrHairgrease - It's the WebGUI VM.18:03
DiggyCentOS 5.x.  This is the WebGUI-provided VM18:03
+MrHairgreasei see18:03
+MrHairgreaseyou can try 'which cc'18:04
+MrHairgreasebut that'll prolly tell you you don't have one18:04
Diggyi note that gcc is not install.  will do that now and see if it helps18:05
+MrHairgreasethat would help =)18:05
Diggyi'm so exited18:05
Diggyok, a little exited18:05
+bartjoli just can't hide it18:05
+MrHairgreaseyou can from me bart18:05
Diggythose'd make snappy tune lyrics :-)18:06
+MrHairgreasebiertje baidewai?18:06
+bartjolnjou, dasj lekkah18:06
+MrHairgreaseoki hang on18:06
Diggyjust out of curiosity, what language is that?18:07
+bartjolvery terrible dutch18:07
Diggyi knew that ... no18:08
+MrHairgreaseterrible indeed...18:08
+MrHairgreasebut then again it's passed 5 so who can blame us18:08
Diggyi wouldn't know terrible dutch from good dutch, so i'm impressed :-)18:09
+bartjolyeah, we speak it fluently18:09
+MrHairgreaseMost Dutch people don't know the difference either18:09
Diggyok, gcc is installed.  should i try installing  CSS::Minifier::XS via CPAN shell, or try testEnvironment again18:10
+MrHairgreasehey perlDreamer: remember those Moose attribute problems I had?18:10
+MrHairgreaseI made a moosex trait for it18:11
+MrHairgreaseMoose is awesome18:11
Diggymint, CSS::Minifier::XS installed.  now, shoudl i run testEnvironment again?18:12
GettyMoose owns18:12
Gettyits the best method to bring java dudes to perl ;)18:13
+MrHairgreaseDiggy yes18:13
Diggyand leave the poor moose alone! (i couldn't resist)18:13
+MrHairgreaseGetty, I don't think Java dudes can handle the dynamic sweetness that is perl =)18:13
Gettyhehe they can, they can18:13
Gettyits just that they didnt know about it ;)18:13
Gettybut there are some that dont18:14
+MrHairgreaseDiggy, you have mooses enough in Norway18:14
DiggyI'm north american.  plenty here, too18:14
+MrHairgreasewhat's the pluar of Moose anyway? Meese?18:14
+MrHairgreaseOh, my bad18:15
+MrHairgreaseyou're connected to a freenode server in Olso18:15
Diggythe world is flat!18:15
+MrHairgreasethe world is round...18:16
+MrHairgrease...like a pancake18:16
Diggyhey, ur helping me, so i won't argue the point :-)18:16
SDuensinSmart lad.18:17
Diggymama didn't raise any fools18:18
Diggygonna step away for a cig (don't judge me) while CPAN does its thing18:21
Diggyhey, it's the opiate of the masses18:21
SDuensinMy is coffee.18:22
+perlDreamerMy wife is in school to be a nurse.18:23
+perlDreamerThis term she is doing oncology (cancer treatment)18:23
+perlDreamerall of her patients are smokers or ex-smokers18:23
Diggyi said "don't judge me", didn't i? :-)18:28
+MrHairgreaseI'm not judging anyone18:28
+bartjolMrHairgrease has smoke coming from every orifice of his body18:30
+MrHairgreaseFunny, never noticed that18:31
+bartjolwell, that invisible smoke yesterday almost killed Roberto and me18:32
+bartjolroti, yeah right, Colin Powell has pictures of you!18:32
+MrHairgreasehmmm, roti...18:33
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Diggyupdate - upgrade seemed to work.  but when i try to go into admin mode, i get a "Problem with Request" page18:36
+MrHairgreasedid you restart modperl?18:36
+bartjola lot of times18:36
+bartjoloh, sorry18:37
Diggyas in restart apache?18:37
+bartjolnot me18:37
+bartjolonly apache isn't enough, is it?18:37
+MrHairgrease /data/wre/sbin/wreservice --restart modperl18:37
+MrHairgreaseor  /data/wre/sbin/wreservice --restart modperl specre18:38
+MrHairgrease  /data/wre/sbin/wreservice --restart modperl spectre18:38
Diggymany thanks, that did it!18:41
+MrHairgreaseno problem18:41
Diggyi'm psyched, oh yeah.  i'm psyched, oh yeah (does a liitle dance)18:41
DiggyNOW can i upgrade to latest and greatest?18:42
DiggyYes?  No?  (everyone must have gone out on a cig break ;-) )18:46
+MrHairgreasei dunno what version you're at18:47
+MrHairgreaseso I cannot tell18:47
+bartjolwhat, I actually had some work to do18:47
+MrHairgreaseI guess you can then upgrade to th e7.8 series18:47
+bartjolI try to avoid that, but hey18:47
+bartjolmaybe some perl modules18:48
+MrHairgreasejust look in the gotchas.txt file if there are some extra stoppoints on th eroad18:48
+bartjolread the 7.8 gotcha18:48
+bartjolmaybe 7.8.1318:48
+perlDreameryou can upgrade from 7.7.33 to 7.8.14 with no hiccups18:48
+perlDreamerjust extra module requirements18:48
+perlDreamerwe're trying to minimize mid-stream hiccups on the shunt path18:48
+bartjolbut if you want to go to beta, stop at 7.8.1318:48
+perlDreamerbut going to 7.9.0 is for heffalumps and woozils18:49
+bartjollike me18:49
Diggyoh yeah, work.  ok, i'll give 7.8.14 a whirl18:49
+perlDreamerbartjol is a jagular18:49
Diggyand, bartjol, take it easy on yourself :-)18:50
+bartjolI will, but I had some moments today that I took pride in myself too much18:50
+bartjolgotta keep the balance18:51
Diggybeen there.  then i do something completely idiotic, and it slaps me back to reality18:51
+perlDreamerI worked with a guy who said, "All those atta-boys are killed by one aw shit."18:51
+bartjolyeah, but for the few seconds it lasts, it is nice18:51
Diggyand, as we all know, reality bites18:52
+bartjoltherefore, I wear steel underwear18:52
Diggyyeah, a brief endorphin rush18:52
DiggyperlDreamer, that one is going into my book of notable quotes18:54
+perlDreamerI miss working with Jim, he was a good guy18:56
Diggyupdate - i'm now running the latest-and-greatest WebGUI!!!19:02
Diggyexcept for a couple of angst-filled moments, it was all pretty painless19:02
Diggythat is, thanks to your help19:03
Diggyi have 2 more questions:19:03
+bartjolyes we wear skirts19:03
+bartjolgo ahaid, yhat 1 beer hit a spot19:04
Diggy1.  as part of the upgrade process, the instructions, i'm to restart apache19:04
+bartjolwell, mainly modperl19:04
Diggybut when i try, i get an error saying that httpd.conf can't be found19:04
+bartjolthat is a mention in the output of the update script19:04
+bartjoldid you set the environment?19:04
Diggyoops, so much for RTFM19:05
+MrHairgreaseare you restarting the system apache?19:05
+MrHairgreasebeacuse you shgouldn't do that19:05
Diggydon't honestly know19:05
+bartjolwell he seems to try that19:05
Diggyanyway, seems benign19:05
+bartjolperl wreservice.pl --restart modproxy19:05
+MrHairgreaseif you use /data/wre/sbin/wreservice you don't have to worry about those things19:05
+bartjolthat wreservice indeed19:06
+MrHairgreaseit's better to hjust run it as /data/wre/sbin/wreservice19:06
Diggy2.  somewhere i saw that i can check the WebGUI version from the admin console19:06
+MrHairgreasethat way you don't need to set the environment in advance19:06
Diggybut i don't see where19:06
+bartjolit's in the statistics19:06
Diggyand, ok to answers for #119:06
Diggy(sheepishly) i haven't really set up the site yet.  is "statistics" in the admin console?19:07
Diggyit's probably staring me in the face19:08
SDuensinLittle picture of a bar graph.19:08
+bartjolit's somewhere at words that start with an "S"19:08
Diggyuh, oh, i don't see that19:09
+MrHairgreaseare you admin?19:09
+bartjolyou're not at the new content, are you?19:09
Diggysee, my installation luck was too good to be true :-)19:10
Diggyyes, new content19:10
+bartjolthat is not good19:10
Diggyah, NOW i see it.  arrgh19:10
+bartjol1 click away19:11
CIA-58WebGUI: translation * r12450 /translations/German/German/ (4 files): Updating German on translation server19:11
+bartjolperlDreamer: have you recomitted dutch to?19:11
Diggyhmm, odd.  says WebGUI Build Version 7.7.33. Latest version available 7.8.1419:11
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Diggyi just installed 7.8.14 (didn't i?)19:12
+perlDreamerbartjol, I just did German as a test19:12
+MrHairgreaseok, have fun with your new wg install, I have to go to the bar19:12
+bartjolok, want another test? I won't touch it then19:12
+perlDreamerDiggy, you can check the WebGUI version from any page19:12
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+perlDreamerI'll commit yer stuff, bartjol19:12
+perlDreamergo chase after MrHairgrease19:12
Diggyif i were there, i'd buy you a tall frosty one19:12
+bartjoleeeh, beer19:12
+perlDreamerthere you go19:13
* SDuensin is closer, Diggy. :-P19:13
+bartjolduck, you suckers, eeeh, I mean: so long dear people19:13
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Diggywhat a nice person19:14
+perlDreamerbartjol is good people19:14
DiggyperlDreamer, any idea why i'm not seeing 7.8.14 as installed?19:15
SDuensinI think I need cheeseburgers.19:15
SDuensinWhat do you see?19:15
+perlDreamerSDuensin: u can haz cheezbrgrz19:15
Diggy7.7.13 is the Build Version reported19:15
SDuensinUh oh.19:15
Diggyi could stand a burger, too19:16
+perlDreamerDiggy, what's the version in /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI.pm ?19:16
+perlDreamerright near the top of the file, first 10-15 lines or so19:16
Diggyand what do you mean, "uh, oh".  not a confidence builder19:16
+perlDreamerSDuensin: u can haz cheezbrgr19:16
SDuensinperlDreamer:  Yea, but I gotta go get cheezbrgr.19:17
+perlDreamerbut only if you stop scaring the newbies19:17
Diggyyeash, stop scaring the newbies!  WebGUI.pm says "our $VERSION = '7.8.14'"19:18
+perlDreamerokay, Diggy, here's what you need to do19:20
+perlDreamerLog into the site as Admin, Turn On Admin, Admin Console, Cache, clear cache19:20
+perlDreamerclear the cache in your browser19:20
+perlDreamerrestart modperl again19:20
+perlDreamerturn around three times while chanting "WebGUI ROCKS!!" while holding a small purple octopus over your head19:21
Diggyused an armadillo for the dance, instead.  it worked!19:23
SDuensinI've done that.  It works.19:23
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Diggyif i had the octopus, i'd have eaten it19:24
* SDuensin bought one to watch over his server.19:25
Diggyfirst of all, to be completely semi-serious, thank you all so much for your help and your patience19:25
Diggynot only do i have a working latest-and-greatest, but i've had fun getting there19:25
+perlDreamerawesome :)19:26
* SDuensin cheers!19:26
CIA-58WebGUI: translation * r12451 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset_SQLReport.pm Form_Username.pm Form.pm): Updating Dutch on translation server19:26
SDuensinSee?  You should hang out.  We're fun.19:26
Diggyi'd like to drop in every once-in-a-while to do just that19:26
+perlDreamerDiggy, here's a little more advice19:26
+perlDreamerbrowse the wiki19:26
+perlDreamerdownload the WebGUI starter guide from plainblack.com and read it cover to cover19:27
SDuensinYea.  What he said.19:27
+perlDreamerreport bugs when you find them, and answer questions to your bugs promptly19:27
Diggyreading! oh, no.19:27
+perlDreamersearch the forum for questions/answers19:27
SDuensinIt has pictures!19:27
+perlDreamerif you do these things, the WebGUI support community will smile and bless you19:27
Diggyi can use all the help i can get!19:27
Diggyi'll do as advised19:28
Diggynow that i have a brand spankin' new install, i'll go at it in earnest19:28
Diggy... i don't think earnest will mind19:28
SDuensinSNAPSHOT IT!19:29
Diggywill do19:29
* SDuensin loves VMs.19:29
+perlDreamerrun your backups daily19:29
Diggyso does Diggy19:29
Diggywait a minute here, there's real work involved here :-)19:30
+perlDreamerthe WRE is setup to run backups for you19:30
+perlDreamerjust setup the correct cron job19:30
Diggygood to know19:30
Diggyi can do that19:31
+perlDreamerI think the list of cron jobs is in the wiki19:32
Diggythe wiki seems like a must19:32
Diggyi'm just kinda noodlin' around the admin console now.  how kewl19:32
TrexHi folks. I have some simple questions about using preload.custom -- questions that appear not to be anwered in the wiki.19:33
Diggywell, back to work19:33
SDuensinTake your time.  Don't get frustrated.19:33
Diggyas i said earlier, reality bites19:33
SDuensinFrustration leads you to do dumb things.  Like when I installed Drupal and Joomla.19:33
SDuensinOK, I'm going for food at last.  Back soon!19:34
DiggySDuensin, i learned a long time ago that if u want to success in IT, u have to be patient19:34
Diggyanyway, thanks to all again19:34
TrexFor example, I want to add a couple template variables to Calendar.pm, specifically to the month view...19:34
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TrexTo do this with preload.custom, do you have to copy the entire Calendar.pm file over, or just the subroutines that you wish to modify (like viewMonth)?19:35
TrexIn other words, does preload.custom replace everything within the original Calendar.pm file if it sees it in the custom directory, or does it give you more fine control over specific subroutines?19:37
+perlDreamerTrex: you'd subclass Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm, and just override the subroutines that you need to19:37
+perlDreamercustom.preload just adds directories to @INC19:38
+perlDreamereverything else is vanilla perl19:38
+perlDreamerwhat kind of variables do you want to add?19:38
+perlDreamerif you just want more date formats, I would use a Macro instead of changing code19:39
TrexThanks, pearlDreamer. I don't suppose you could point me to a simple example that would show the syntax for how you would sublcass something. I can do some damage in Perl, but I'm hardly an expert. :)19:40
+perlDreamerit's pretty simple19:40
TrexWhat I would like is a "previousMonthUrl" and "nextMonthUrl" variable. Right now you just get a loop of months and links to them, so it seems a bit complex to try to build a marco that would generate these links from the available template variables.19:40
+perlDreameruse base qw/WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Calendar/; #for sub classing19:41
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1427692 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix direct linking to posts and threads when their pagination is set to 0. Fixes bug #11464. - http://bit.ly/aH0GC519:45
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r21e3210 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix direct linking to posts and threads when their pagination is set to 0. Fixes bug #11464. - http://bit.ly/cEWaYy19:45
TrexWith subclassing, would I then be making an entire alternate variation of the Calendar (a whole new asset) in which my changes would be available, or does this make the changes available within the standard WebGUI Calendar asset?19:59
+perlDreamerwell, if you subclass, it's a whole new asset20:01
+perlDreamerbut if you monkey-patch, it would alter the default Calendar20:01
TrexMonkey-patching referring going into the API and modifying it yourself?20:01
* perlDreamer suggests just patching the regular Calendar, and making an RFE to move the code into the core20:01
+perlDreamerin monkey patching, you overwrite subroutines in another module20:02
+perlDreamerit's kind of like pulling weeds in your neighbors yards20:02
+perlDreamerit gets rid of the weeds, but isn't the best thing to be doing20:02
TrexI was hoping that preload.custom was a way to create custom mods that would apply to the core, but would be outside the upgrade path.20:02
+perlDreamerit is, but only as new assets, not by changing existing ones20:03
TrexAnd yes, I was planning on submitting an RFE, but wanted to test my code first under the preload.custom model -- at least how I thought it worked.20:03
SDuensinWhat about this?  http://www.webgui.org/wgtv/the-swiftysite-technique  (Or is that "monkey patching"?)20:04
+perlDreamerI'm not sure how they built it, SD.  I didn't attend that session last year20:06
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SDuensinIt's interesting.  Some Perl-fu I've not seen before.  (Which isn't hard to find.)20:06
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TrexThanks for the help, perlDreamer! I must be off again.20:14
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+patspamHaarg: I pushed up the Plack code as the "plebgui" branch20:44
+perlDreamerpatspam: my son Peter says there is good wine tasting on the trains at Mt. Hood20:46
+perlDreamerI'm not sure if he's trying to get a ride out of it, or wanting to try some wine (kid is only 10!), or authentically trying to be helpful20:47
+patspameither way... totally awesome!20:47
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@preactionpatspam: does that mean plebgui is ready for prime-time?22:16
+patspamI think I hacked it back to functional post-Plack::Request api changes22:16
+patspambut the next step would be to rewrite it22:17
+patspamripping out Apache::Request altogether22:17
+patspamlib/WebGUI/Session/Plack.pm fakes the parts of Apache::Request API that webgui uses22:19
+patspamreally we should rip the guts out of WebGUI.pm, use middleware instead of content handlers, and refactor $session->request to be more naturally PSGI22:20
@preactionoh yes, but that would be far outside the scope of 8, and that is my plan for eventually (which, if i have my way, means 9)22:21
@preactionthough that means we're once again playing catchup22:21
+patspamhow much is within scope?22:22
@preactionripping out Apache::Request is fine, i don't think that any asset-level custom code should be using $session->request. so any changes to that should be fine22:23
@preactionbut using plack middleware not as fine, it's another set of changes and stuff we don't have time for22:24
@preactionthough having a way to use plack middleware would be fine, then we could migrate at our leisure22:24
@preactionthe main thing is we need to start having preview releases of WG8 in the next 3-4 months22:25
+patspamok, so we keep support for content & url handlers in WebGUI.pm22:26
@preactionfor now, yes22:26
+patspamI started converting the core handlers to middleware for plebgui, it's mostly an easy translation22:26
+patspammiddleware will be possible as soon as we support PSGI22:27
@preactionanything to get rid of apache as soon as possible22:27
@preactionwell, not apache, but modperl, but whatevz22:27
+patspamwhat's the plan for modproxy?22:28
+patspamdid you say something about nginx + wgaccess the other day?22:29
@preactionnginx, yes22:29
@preactioni'd really really really like to see if we can make WebGUI entirely async, but that might be more of a research project for a GSOC or something22:29
+patspamnow you're talking!22:29
@preactionJT wanted carrier grade, I want to deliver ;)22:30
+patspamsweet. I've been playing with tatsumaki quite a bit lately22:30
+patspamI'm bolt bussing to boston tonight (4hrs), I might see about ripping out Apache::Request22:32
+patspamthe thing that was slowing me down was not knowing where to look up docs for the APR api22:32
+patspamI can never find the damn methods in cpan22:33
@preactionyeah, you gotta go to modperl.apache.org or whatever22:33
+patspamit's so annoying that you have to guess which package the method is in22:36
+patspamApache2::RequestRec, Apache2::RequestUtil, ..22:36
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+patspamI don't know if there's any sane way to keep the content and url handlers API22:39
+patspambecause they're coupled to Apache request22:40
@preactionoh, right, of course22:41
@preactionwell, URL handlers can go22:41
@preactionbetter idea: just make it a Plack::Request object instead and we'll make people change22:42
+patspamyeah that's much more preferable22:42
+patspamAsset is the only content handler that is coupled to Apache22:43
+patspamfor streaming uploads22:43
@preactionah, yeah that'll have to change22:43
+patspambut apart from that, we can preserve the contentHandler api22:44
+patspamurl handlers will be so much nicer as middleware anyway22:44
+patspamthe one ugly hack i can remember in plebgui is that it buffers output22:45
+patspambut once we rip out Apache::Request I think we can fix that22:46
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+perlDreamerpatspam, there's some apache module which will tell you in which other modules the docs live23:20
+perlDreamerit was posted to the dev list a long time ago23:20
+patspamhmm can't find it23:25
+patspamwell, with any luck I'll have internet access on the bus, so maybe chat to you guys later on23:30
* patspam heads to boston23:30
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* perlDreamer heads off to pick up the kids23:32
+perlDreamerthen I'll see about finding that Apache documentation module23:33
+perlDreamerit was perl -MApache:::Something -e 'find method_name;'23:33
+perlDreamervery simple23:33
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+perlDreamerha! found it00:53
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Gettystupid question, someone asked me, can WebGUI run as (Fast)CGI? i dont think so, or?01:06
+perlDreamerright now it only runs as modpel01:13
+perlDreamerin WebGUI 8, it might run as FastCGI through the magic of Plack01:13
+perlDreamerbut we shall see01:13
@preactionGetty: if you want to help patspam with the plack translation, i'm sure he'd be appreciative (and so would i)01:19
@preactionif you can backport it to 7.x that'd be wonderful as well.01:19
Gettymagic of Plack... ok ;)01:20
Gettynah, just curious.... is there mod_perl for lighttpd? so far i avoided mod_perl in general cause it made very strange errors in the past01:20
+perlDreamerwe've been using it for quite a while now01:21
+perlDreamerand aside from using lots of memory, it's been fine01:21
@preactionit's not mod_perl so much as Apache::Request <- that's the big part01:21
Getty(for example long time mod_perl had the bug to disable parsing off .htaccess files with a path longer then 128 chars, whatever mod_perl was active for the vhost/dir or not)01:21
Gettyif you had such kind of bugs you avoid that software for a longer time ;)01:22
@preactionthe WRE puts a mod_proxy instance in front to serve static content or normal CGI stuff, the idea being to get rid of the problems of mod_perl from standard serving01:22
@preactionyou could use lighty or nginx as the proxy01:22
Gettyvarnish and/or lighttpd should be the highest front01:22
Gettyvarnish + ESI... owns...01:22
Gettyyou REALLY should dive into this if you dont know it01:22
Gettyits the concept akamai works on01:23
@preactionit's something to look at, but first we have to get rid of the reliance on apache01:26
Gettyactually, if you use varnish + esi you could not care about that anymore01:27
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Gettypatspam: we just talked about you :-P01:28
@preactionapache/mod_perl really hampers us when it comes to performance, real performance01:28
+patspamI felt my ears burning01:28
+perlDreamerit was better than CGI01:28
+patspamyay for bolt bus interwebs01:28
Gettypreaction: yeah but you gain so much performance with that concept... you know it at all? i always wanted to set it up but my newest employer is actually not in the size for the requirement ;) at my old one they was to less into new technology (thats why i left)01:29
@preactionthe ESI stuff would probably require a whole bunch of work, and may not even be viable for our model, where an entire page can be completely dependent on the user who is viewing it (not RESTful, but we've never enforced it in the past)01:29
Gettythe caching of specific layers is something that already boosts much01:30
Gettyeven tho i know what you mean01:30
@preactioni'm not saying we can't do it, i'm saying we've got priorities, and our internals are so horrible that i'd rather straighten those out than try to build something on top of it01:30
Gettyi just say that its worth to have a deeper look at it before you do some more internal rework01:31
@preactioni'd love to just scrap the entire project and build something fully  modern on a completely async stack with sharding and caching and replication in mind on the full backend, but... well...01:31
Gettyi know what you mean, 100%01:31
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Gettybut i'm a rapid developer and i always tell: have one proof of concept so that you got it in mind, and probably "something happens"01:31
Gettyand you guys are actually the best targets for that concept with that massive control about the env with WRE01:32
@preactionwell, that's what the Plack stuff is for, to reduce our deps on WRE. that being said, I still want the WRE to be the "Best Way To Deploy WebGUI"01:33
Gettyyeah it is01:33
@preactionbut it'd still be nice to "cpan> install WebGUI"01:33
Gettyyes of course01:33
Getty"whatever the user fits best"01:33
Gettybut its awesome that you even THINK (thought) about WRE01:33
Gettythat you made it01:33
Gettyand see it as something that you can offer the user01:33
@preactionbut then we're back to "so much to do, no manpower"01:33
Gettythat is really "nextgen" in my eyes01:33
@preactionyou'd be surprised at the naysayers, even i don't run WRE on my dev box anymore (lib incompatibilities with standard OS X stuff)01:34
@preactionbut local::lib and perlswitch might work nicely with what we have01:34
Gettymy resources i give out are mostly concentrated on Padre and lower level libraries (like Webframeworks where you build stuff like WebGUI ;) )01:34
Gettyi use it that way01:34
Gettyno wait, i lie i dont01:34
Gettybut it owuld work01:34
Gettyno libs you use are incompatible with local::lib01:35
@preactionwell, WebGUI is its own framework (which i'm trying to fix, see http://github.com/preaction/modern-webgui01:35
Gettyi just wasnt sure how i use local::lib + mod_Perl and i didnt wanted to try out01:35
Gettyof course you got your own framework :)01:35
Gettyi didnt suggested anything else01:35
@preactioni mean, i like Cat, but it doesn't mesh with the ideas of CMS very well (imho)01:35
Gettyoh.... i will now start official my learning of Catalyst to port my (dont say one word) PHP Webframework to Perl01:36
Gettycause actually i still use it cause there is nothing like that on CPAN ;)01:36
@preactionnew door01:36
@preaction(wow, that joke might be way too inside for anyone to get)01:37
Gettyand i thought: whatever i do, i should make it on top of Catalyst, cause its made by some of the most experienced CPAN developers and so it should be a good base01:37
@preactionnew door is an anagram for "one word".01:37
Gettysounds like you also like good tea ;)01:37
@preactionindeed. it's an app framework, and a CMS could be considered an app01:37
Gettycatalyst is an app framework?01:37
Gettyi totally considered it so far as framework01:38
@preactionwell, web app framework01:38
Gettywell wait...01:38
+patspamGetty: I used local::lib to deploy plebgui on shared hosting01:38
Gettymh where i can say the porder01:38
Gettyaehm border01:38
Gettylets say i define an app framework more like something that does something even if you does nothing01:38
Gettyif you get what i mean01:38
Gettyeven tho i must insist that definition is not that good, even tho its hard to make a REAL border01:39
@preactionah, yes. WebGUI without the core asset set01:39
@preactionCatalyst is a framework01:39
Gettyyeah you need to code an app with it01:39
@preactionDjango is an app framework (has the admin stuff built-in)01:39
Gettythat is what i meant01:39
Gettymy framework does also nearly nothing when you dont do anything01:39
Gettybut it gives you an error which template is missing ;) so you directly know where to start01:39
@preactionmodern-webgui is heavily django-influenced (<3 django, but it really needs to start adding to the "app" part)01:40
Gettybut its just the content template, the complete structure of the page in standard divs is already there blabla you know what i mean01:40
Gettyits more "app"01:40
Gettyi got an awesome form management, which now definitly needs refactoring, and i said: fuck that shit i directly convert now to perl01:41
Gettymy boss is also hot for perl01:41
Gettyso.... we defined 1 day / week i go now for the perl startup so that we got something in some weeks01:41
Gettyits so ugly situation if you got something awesome to work with and its just in the wrong language... but its my fault so i cant blame anyone01:41
Gettymy only big problem still is that i need smarty syntax templates... its still p.d. the best non-coder syntax style, i know you can bend TT much to behave much like that but it seems impossible to make it "$var" instead of "var"01:42
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CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r913fa9a / (58 files in 20 dirs): clean up Tie::IxHash imports - http://bit.ly/bBzkwl13:25
CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra22162b / (11 files in 4 dirs): clean up Tie::CPHash imports - http://bit.ly/anYS7t13:25
CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r2af4c4d / (47 files in 15 dirs): clean up WebGUI::Utility imports - http://bit.ly/atTsk013:25
CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r45ca61b / (6 files in 2 dirs): more import cleanups - http://bit.ly/cZk5IY13:25
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+bartjolhey scott16:22
SDuensinHey bartjol 16:24
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+bartjoloh, yeah, a customer called16:55
+bartjolstrange people16:55
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+perlDreamermorning, folks17:34
SDuensinHey perlDreamer 17:35
@Haargis there any reason to keep the 7.7 upgrades in WebGUI8 i'm not thinking of?17:39
+perlDreamerI just got through pruning the 7.7 upgrades out of 7.8 and 7.917:43
SDuensinCrap.  Out of coffee.17:43
+perlDreamertaking kids to school, be back in 2017:43
* SDuensin will still be here.17:43
CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rb24978e / (182 files in 23 dirs): removing old upgrades - http://bit.ly/bfFTRX17:46
+perlDreamerHaarg, what do you think about removing the form magic from property, and requiring people to put things into form directly?17:56
@Haargi was thinking about that.  the magic is becoming more problematic.17:57
@Haargbut it also seems like it should work fine to continue having the magic17:58
+perlDreamerwhat about the thing with adding traits and the meta_property?17:58
+perlDreamerit seems like we need to have a class with the trait applied to see what the attribute will do17:59
+perlDreamerso then we're building some anonymous throwaway metaclass just to do that17:59
@Haargkind of17:59
@Haargbut it caches the metaclass it builds18:00
@Haargbased on the traits applied18:00
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+perlDreamerHaarg, in order to apply the roles to the anon class, I need to get it inside the buidler for _property_metaclass18:18
+perlDreamerbut builder methods don't get arguments, other than $self18:18
+perlDreamerI think that means we need to flatten it into add_property18:19
+perlDreamer"it" being _property_metaclass18:19
@Haargyeah, we might just want to do away with _property_metaclass18:20
+perlDreamerare you going to talk about Moose at the WUC this year, Haarg?18:27
@Haargno.  i don't remember if someone else was planning on talking about it.18:28
@Haargugh i hate UNIVERSAL::(isa|can) so much18:37
+perlDreamerif it would just shut up, it would be a little more tolerable18:40
@Haargi would be fine with the warnings if they weren't all false positives18:40
@Haarglike this18:41
@HaargCalled UNIVERSAL::isa() as a function, not a method at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/UNIVERSAL/can.pm line 4318:41
+perlDreamerany thoughts on this: http://gist.github.com/32932518:45
@Haargwhere is that trait supposed to be from?18:48
+perlDreamerI think that's the problem18:48
+perlDreamerthere's magic in traits to expand Array into Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::Trait::Array18:48
+perlDreamer$perlDreamer->invoke('dispel magic', 'WebGUI::Definition::add_property');18:50
+perlDreamerYou have to be a level 3 magic user to do that18:50
+perlDreameror was it level 5?18:52
+perlDreamerit's been too long ago18:52
@Haargthat may be the best way to go18:57
@Haargthere are two other alternatives.  first is using Moose::Meta::Class->interpolate_class(_and_new)? to make the metaclass object18:58
@Haargand the other 'better' solution that we don't have time for, which is making traits for all of the form types18:58
+perlDreamerthat would mean that I'd need to build a form type for handling JSON in the db, for things that never send the JSON to a form18:59
+perlDreamerbut I agree that we need a type system, and have our forms interact with that19:00
+perlDreamerand, personally, I think we should base it on native Moose type, and build around that, rather than the other way around19:00
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+perlDreamerI think that's a typo19:04
+perlDreamerI don't see an interpolate_class in Moose::Meta::Class19:04
@Haargi guess it isn't in the pod19:05
+perlDreamerit's not in the code, either19:05
+perlDreamerit's actually in Moose::Meta::Attribute19:05
+perlDreamerand it does resolve trait names19:05
@Haargyeah, that's the one19:05
+perlDreamerthe farther back we push into Moose, the more susceptible we're going to be to future change19:06
@Haargespecially for undocumented methods19:07
+perlDreamerthat's just a typo, I'll track down their repo and submit a doc patch19:08
+perlDreamerin the docs, it says to call Moose::Meta::Class->interp....19:09
+perlDreamerit should be Moose::Meta::Attribute->interp19:09
@HaargMoose::Meta::Attribute->interpolate_class is undocumented though19:09
+perlDreamerright, the only one that's documented is interpolate_class_and_new19:10
* perlDreamer goes to the gym19:13
@Haargunfortunately, interpolate_class is the one we want19:20
@HaargperlDreamer, completely untested but i was thinking something like this http://gist.github.com/32939519:32
+perlDreamerit looks exactly right, codewise20:17
+perlDreamerI'll see what the tests say20:17
+perlDreamermaybe a quick pop into #moose to ask about that method?20:17
+perlDreamer'cuz I'd be happy to make them a doc patch for it20:17
Gettywhats the problem?20:18
+perlDreamerand to find out if it's going to be, expected to be deprecated20:18
+perlDreamerthis method: Moose::Meta::Attribute->interpolate_class20:18
+perlDreameris not documented in the POD20:18
+perlDreamerfrom previous, painful experience, that means it might not be wise to use it, Getty20:18
Gettythere are many not documented in the POD cause they are used internal or shouldnt be used by users who have no idea20:18
Gettythose functions are 99% sure to be changed or dropped20:18
Gettyi even think that i know of interpolate_class that its not the right way20:19
@Haargnot the right way for what?20:24
@HaargperlDreamer, i think i have my WebGUI::Paths branch working properly.  the only things that still refer to the WebGUI lib directory are the POD/Perl::Critic tests.  api breaks on WebGUI::Session->open and WebGUI::Config->new.20:28
+perlDreamerthose are low usage API methods, and we're in 8 anyway20:28
+perlDreamerHaarg, does changing ownership of a file leave a timestamp somewhere I can check?20:29
+perlDreamerin the filesystem?20:29
@Haargdon't believe so20:29
+perlDreamerGetty, why is interpolate_class the wrong way to do it?20:42
Gettyits just somehting that pops into my mind if i remember20:42
Gettyi must check into it what it does again, then i probably remember my case20:42
Gettybut i did some deeper stuff in moose and that is function-ape-jungle-hopping ;)20:43
+perlDreamerI think I'll do some googling, then ask in #moose real quick21:07
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+perlDreamerhey, tavisto!21:17
@tavistohey brotah21:17
@tavistoer brotha21:17
@tavistohow's life?21:18
+perlDreamervery busy21:18
+perlDreamerkids, jobs, wife21:19
+perlDreamercooking, cleaning, laundry21:19
+perlDreamerremodeling, electrical work, appliance installs21:19
@Haarghey tavisto, did you see that steam + valve's games are coming to mac?21:22
@Haargno more rebooting needed for tf221:23
@tavistoyeah, been busy here too. Craziness. hehe I've been working on my house a lot as well.21:23
@tavistoJust finished my taxes so that's a good thing to check off my list. And no I hadn't heard about steam coming to mac.. That rocks!!!21:24
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@tavistoHaarg, you enjoying your MBP upgrade? I like this sooo much better.21:32
@Haargit is quite nice, yeah21:32
@tavistoreally nice when I have to jump into windows on VMware21:33
@tavistoDoes anyone know why my ^AdSpace(); macro would just print out on a style template rather than showing an ad?21:33
@tavistoI'm sitting here thinking... there's nothing to it.... or am I just having a brain fart21:34
@Haargnot sure.  where is this?21:34
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+perlDreamerthe Ad in the AdSpace could have a problem21:35
@Haargi hope they make 85W power adapters with the new connector at some point http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC461LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDEwMQ&mco=MTMzODAwMDI21:35
@Haargwould be much more convenient than the current ones21:35
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@tavistoHaarg, perlDreamer it's on the TGC Forums (bugs)21:39
@tavistoinstead of rendering the ad, it just prints out the macro on the page21:39
@tavistoI'm 99% sure that macro is enabled by default 21:39
+perlDreamerwe can check that21:40
+perlDreamernope, it's not21:41
+perlDreameryou want it added, tavisto?21:41
@tavistooh crap then that's why21:42
@tavistocould you enable that on TGC21:42
@tavistothanks, I'm sitting here wondering what the heck is going on21:42
+perlDreamerokay, please give her a retry21:43
+perlDreameroh yeah21:45
@tavistobooyah grandma21:46
+perlDreamernormally we don't do support for clients over IRC, but we always make an exception for you, tavisto21:48
@tavistogee thanks21:53
@tavistoI have a special support package21:53
+perlDreamerIt's the Brazilian BBQ+ package21:54
+perlDreamerspeaking of which, it is definitely time for lunch22:04
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+perlDreamerHaarg, that returns a meta class of the class Moose::Meta::Attribute23:21
+perlDreamerand technically, it only returns a class name23:22
+perlDreamerand now Definition.t passes: http://gist.github.com/32969123:38
+perlDreamerI'll try the others next23:38
+perlDreamerall right!23:44
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf4467cb / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Class.pm : Attempt #1 to pass traits through property. - http://bit.ly/91yb6D23:44
+perlDreamerwe have traits23:44
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r570eea7 / t/Definition.t : Add test for passing through traits. - http://bit.ly/atojzC23:44
+perlDreamernow I just have to write some23:44
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CIA-58WebGUI: translation * r12452 /translations/ (201 files in 3 dirs): Updating Czech on translation server10:58
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+bartjolhey scott, learned dutch already?16:20
SDuensinThat close?16:23
+bartjolvoorjen? what kind of dialect is that?16:25
SDuensinIt had double vowels and a J in a strange place.  Looked Dutch to me.  :-P16:26
+bartjolit looks like it, but does not sound like it,  so it is not a duck16:29
SDuensinThen it's not a witch.16:30
SDuensinOh!  Amazing!  I get IE7 on March 15th!16:31
* SDuensin can't stand stupid corporate America.16:31
+bartjoleeeh, where are you located?16:31
* bartjol means : where in time16:31
+bartjoland they're not going for the full ie8 in one go?16:32
SDuensinIn time?  2010.  :-P16:32
SDuensinGovernment contractor dude.  I'm surprised I get 7.16:32
SDuensin(Although I already have 8 and Chrome on my machine.)16:32
+bartjolit is an improvement, and soon I will get the browser choice screen microsoft update16:33
+bartjoleuropean regulations++16:33
+bartjolmmm, 500 karma left to spend from my pile of karma16:38
+bartjoland, I spend it all16:40
SDuensinGot an odd question...  Ever lock down WebGUI pages based on the browser's user-agent?16:40
+bartjolwell, I wanted to one time, but I never came around to do so16:40
+bartjolactually, when using ie, i wanted to show a solitair jumping cards video and a text: use another browser, or go play games16:41
SDuensinI'm building a rather interesting service and wanted to use WebGUI to provide a lot of the generic functions (user management, billing, forums, etc) but I don't want them being accessed outside my custom client.16:42
+bartjolmmm, that does a bit like monopolising16:42
SDuensinI used to embed a script in all my sites that helped people get away from IE6 if they were using it.  Then the bastards at Microsoft bought the domain that was doing the anti-IE6 campaign and took the script down!16:43
+bartjolwhat, even microsoft wants people to upgrade, stupid mrrpprgfffpowhfp16:43
SDuensinWell, I'm not going to lock down the entire site.  Just the pages that require my browser to properly render.16:44
+bartjoland when they use the wrong browser they got redirected to a site that says, please use <my browser> for viewing this page16:46
SDuensinNo, just back to the home page of the site.16:46
+bartjolwell, that are details16:46
SDuensinOnly way they'd ever even be able to try and access one of those custom browser pages with a different browser is if they're poking around and doing things they shouldn't be doing.  :-)16:47
+bartjoleeeh, I am think of a contenthandler that sets scratch variable, and when it exists on the page there is a macro that redirects you16:48
+bartjolbut that may be to late16:48
+bartjolyou'l get a blink of the scrteen16:48
SDuensinWhat about even before WebGUI gets it?  Make Apache do the filtering?16:49
+bartjoloff course, but I was thinking more generically16:49
SDuensinGeneric is good.  :-)16:50
+bartjolbecause, you'll have to set each url16:50
+bartjolmy way, you can make a template:16:50
+bartjol<tmpl_if my_scratch>then redirect<tmpl_else>all my cool html</tmpl_if>16:50
+bartjolyou only want to do that once per session16:51
+bartjolonly at first access16:52
SDuensinWhere would "my_scratch" come from?16:52
+bartjolthe first request in of the session must call the method to set it16:53
+bartjolwhich requests meddling in the session code16:54
+bartjoleq "undesirable"16:54
SDuensinYea.  That'd be bad.16:54
+bartjoldon\'t fiddle with session or die;16:55
SDuensinI'd rather tweak Apache than WebGUI code.16:56
+bartjolthinking of a contenthandler that always is called, but does nothing if sessioncookie exists16:56
+bartjolthat already sounds better\16:56
SDuensinFor the most part, I can just "hide" the URLs.  However, I know some goober out there is going to snoop them with a proxy of some kind and go poking around.16:57
+bartjolbut you'll have to set each apache request to use that handler, and also be able to caal other handlers16:57
+bartjolpeople like me16:58
SDuensinWhat about just using rewrite to bounce requests targeted for a specific sub-folder of the site?16:58
+bartjolin apache?16:58
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SDuensinHey perlDreamer 16:59
+perlDreamermorning, SDuensin16:59
+bartjolwell, during thinking of other solutions, this is starting to sound better and better16:59
+perlDreamerwhat's up?16:59
SDuensinbartjol - hehe16:59
+bartjolSD wants to lock out ie6 users16:59
SDuensinperlDreamer - Trying to make WebGUI do things it's not intended to do.  :-)16:59
+perlDreameret tu, SD?16:59
SDuensinActually, I want to lock out *ALL* standard browser users.16:59
SDuensinYou're in the USA, right?  Ever hear of "Steam"?17:00
+perlDreamerYeah, some game company, right?17:00
SDuensinWell, Valve is the company.  Steam is their client.  But yea...17:01
SDuensinBasically, half their client is delivered as HTML.  Makes it very easy for them to update content...17:01
SDuensinI'm doing the same thing and don't want non-client users poking around on the special pages intended to be rendered inside the client software.17:01
+perlDreamershould be very easy to do17:03
+perlDreameradd browser rejection via a URL Handler17:03
SDuensinSo enlighten us, oh master.  :-P17:03
* perlDreamer will ponder briefly17:03
+perlDreamerit was a very long night last night for support calls17:03
SDuensinNo rush.  Domain isn't even online yet.17:04
SDuensinThis is a brand-spankin' new project.17:04
+perlDreamerI think the best way to do this is actually via Apache17:10
+perlDreamerwhere you put rules in the vhost section that requires a certain client to access the site17:11
SDuensinThat's what I was thinking.  Just wanted more opinions.17:11
SDuensinAnd it's not even the entire site - just a branch of it.17:11
+bartjoloh, I thought it were some random pages throuhout17:16
+bartjola branche makes it better17:16
SDuensinNope.  I can contain them into one area.17:16
* bartjol is getting very good at thinking of too complicated solutions17:17
SDuensinYou might be perfect for this project!17:17
+bartjolwell, you can hire me probably17:17
SDuensinSure.  I pay $0 a day.17:17
+bartjolah, Koen will not agree with that17:18
+bartjolhow much by the hour?17:18
+bartjolthat would be a very nice cooperation, I think of too complicated solutions all day, and you'll do it with the easy one in 5 minutes17:19
+perlDreamerare you going to submit a WUC talk, bartjol?17:29
+bartjolI'd like to, but17:30
+bartjolnot sure whether I can come yet17:31
+bartjolI'd actually thought of webgui cluster building17:31
+bartjolwhich might be a bit too easy maybe17:31
+bartjoland to linux focussed17:31
SDuensinBah.  Who cares about Windows hippies.  :-)17:32
+bartjolor apples17:32
+perlDreamerI wouldn't worry about linux focus, few people run WebGUI on windows anymore17:32
+bartjolfirst see whether I can come17:32
+bartjolsome organisational limits I'm bumping into17:33
+perlDreamerI think someone spammed the Czech translation on the server17:39
+bartjolmay very well be17:40
+perlDreamertry translating the notes.txt file17:41
+bartjolmmm, what is submitted looks quite normal to me17:43
+bartjolare it not just the files being added?17:44
+perlDreamerno, some of the files have actually been translated, and they're okay17:45
+perlDreamerbrb, have to take kids to school17:45
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SDuensinMe too.  :-)17:55
* SDuensin lost his tether. Thanks, AT&T.17:55
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r953df35 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum.pm : Remove duplicate accessor method. -18:07
* bartjol knows that html is not css and has done his best to brak the news in a subtle manner18:07
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3ea797b / (7 files in 2 dirs): Wobject tests, through letter M. - http://bit.ly/bLH3MC18:07
+perlDreamerbartjol: who is the recipient of the bad news?18:08
+bartjola very well appreciated colleague of mr patspam18:10
+bartjolwell everybody's got his own comfort zone18:11
+perlDreamerI need some bash command line help18:14
+perlDreamerI want to do this:18:14
+perlDreamerfor file in (`ls /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject`) do; cp template $file; done18:14
SDuensinSo do it.  :-)18:15
SDuensinMay want to toss a "-1" (dash one) behind the ls.18:15
+perlDreamer-1 ?18:15
+bartjolsmall L>18:15
+perlDreamerwhenever I've piped ls into anything, it's always done that for 18:17
SDuensin"dash one" just gives a list of filenames, no other output.18:19
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+perlDreamertime to take some time to read Ovid's complete Test::Class tutorial18:23
+perlDreamerbecause there must be an easier way than listing each test class in the run script18:23
+bartjolmmm, custom workflow giving errors18:32
+bartjoldebug code can be removed after debugging18:34
+perlDreameror use $session->log->debug('debug comment');18:35
+perlDreamerthen you can leave it in, and enable it via log.conf18:36
+bartjolwell, i just made a comment to see whther it run at all18:36
+bartjolit does apparently18:36
+bartjoljust a bit lazy18:37
+bartjolok, now for Unable to load WebGUI::i18n::English::Dutch18:38
+MrHairgreaseThe correct class name for that module would be WebGUI::i18n::Denglish18:39
+perlDreamerYou sure it isn't WebGUI::i18n::Engutch?18:40
+MrHairgreaseNo, we call the Anglified Dutch Denglish in the NL18:40
+MrHairgreaseJust like we have Chinglish for Chinese-English18:41
+bartjolI'm not doing that translation as well18:41
+MrHairgreaseholy crap18:41
+MrHairgreaseboth perldreamer and patspam commenting on blogs.perl.com!18:41
+perlDreamerwho, me?18:41
+MrHairgreaseyeah you18:42
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re0e71a5 / t/run_asset.t : Add Navigation, Poll, ProjectManager to run script. - http://bit.ly/9PQGEz18:42
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8209de7 / (23 files in 4 dirs): Add tests for most other wobjects. Block broken code in Role/Asset/Comments. Refactor run_asset.t - http://bit.ly/cV7l7P18:42
+MrHairgreaseon the 100% test coverage thread18:42
+perlDreameryeah, 100% test coverage is misleading18:42
+perlDreamerI wrote 2000 tests in the last 3 days18:42
+MrHairgreaseyou have been busy...18:42
+perlDreamerI cheated18:42
+perlDreamerI used Test::Class18:42
+bartjolmmm i tried loading dutch twice18:44
+MrHairgreasedouble ducth18:44
+bartjolit sure is18:44
+perlDreamerwhere is patspam's comment on blogs.perl.org?18:45
+MrHairgreaselast comments18:45
+bartjolso long, it's beer o clock18:49
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2997471 / (3 files in 3 dirs): fix assetName calls for Asset and Wobject. - http://bit.ly/auNa6s18:55
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf56523c / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : add lastUpdated stamp for mobile style labels. - http://bit.ly/9Tewlr18:56
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rc57e40e / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : add lastUpdated stamp for mobile style labels. - http://bit.ly/b97AIA18:56
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r85121c5 / (98 files in 8 dirs): Move Test::Asset* to Test::WebGUI::Asset* - http://bit.ly/bkHoqU19:01
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elninogood evening!06:49
elninoI'm trying to implement this: http://javascript.internet.com/miscellaneous/browser-correct-download-instructions.html06:49
elninobut instead of getting the strings that I'm supposed to be getitng, I get: /*<![CDATA[*//*]]>*/ as the output06:49
elninoI created a snippet to create the download.js, cache 1 second06:50
elninotype javascript/text06:50
elninoand put the script in the head06:50
elninoand then copied the call to the function in another snippet, cache 1 sec.06:50
elninoI've done things like this before, but getting CDATA is throwin gme for a loop.06:50
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CIA-58WebGUI: translation * r12453 /translations/German/German/Asset_Survey.pm: Updating German on translation server16:55
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CIA-58webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * rad176a9 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Ready to start thinking about IO bound delayed response -18:32
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf7589e6 / (48 files in 5 dirs): Refactoring to remove putting className into each test class. WIP. - http://bit.ly/9E5vxG06:06
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r20507ee / (47 files in 5 dirs): Calculate class to load. Remove class method from each test file. Fix typos. - http://bit.ly/bGVefh06:06
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r790ccbe / t/run_asset.t : Fix script to work and load the utility test module. - http://bit.ly/cxDw0I06:06
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r41fffba / (46 files in 4 dirs): Remove FindBin from test class sub-modules. - http://bit.ly/ayCAOm06:06
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd4eae41 / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo.pm : Add a test for Photo - http://bit.ly/c2HWxl06:23
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3a2f94f / (4 files): Test for some Sku's. - http://bit.ly/9JevaZ06:27
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CIA-58wgdev: Graham Knop master * r38fba2d / (34 files in 11 dirs): update copyright year - http://bit.ly/bBJ2t615:49
CIA-58wgdev: Graham Knop master * r8dfd618 / lib/WGDev/Command/For/Each.pm : add for-each command - http://bit.ly/8Z4RJ615:49
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rae31597 / t/tests/My/Test/Class.pm : Forgot the custom test subclass. - http://bit.ly/9PXPOr18:04
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+patspampreaction: ping00:27
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@preactionpatspam: sup03:07
+patspamI am knee-deep in psgi03:07
+patspamabout halfway through ripping out apache and re-psgi-ifying webgui803:07
+patspamthe really juicy question is what to do about streaming03:08
@preactionokay, what's the problem and what are our options?03:09
+patspamI'm tempted to steal the Tatsumaki approach, which supports both blocking streaming and asynchronous streaming, with a unified API03:09
+patspambut I'm trying to be conservative03:10
@preactionso the problem is our "ability" to stream files through WebGUI03:10
+patspamjust content at this stage, not files03:10
+patspame.g. ProgressBar03:10
+patspame.g. for (1..10) { $session->output->print($_); sleep 1 }03:11
@preactionwell, that's a solution to a different problem. if there's another solution we can implement it will be fine03:11
+patspamyeah true03:12
@preactioni hate to go this way, but would tying ourselves to POE be a bad thing?03:14
@preactionactually, JT might have some insight03:15
@preactionhe mentioned dealing with the async/blocking problem when developing SimpleDB::Class03:15
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CIA-58webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * rb63d1eb / (6 files in 6 dirs): mid-way commit - http://bit.ly/aywoIR04:10
CIA-58webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r76d8ecf / (8 files in 7 dirs): Demo site loads - http://bit.ly/c0BVvB04:10
+patspampreaction: I think using AnyEvent is the preferred approach04:10
+patspamanyway, enough for today, talk more tomorrow04:10
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+bartjolmight it oh, hi scott15:29
+bartjolmmm, SDuensin, I submitted an rfe, but I'm wondering whether I wouldn't call it a bug15:37
+bartjolmm, better ask colin later, he has the power to move that stuff15:38
SDuensinI like bugs.  Bugs get fixed.  RFEs get whined over.  :-)15:39
+bartjolwell, missing POD might be considered a bug15:46
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+bartjolmorning colin16:21
+bartjolI was wondering whether my rfe might be considered a bug: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/1147416:21
+perlDreamerlet's fix it now16:22
+perlDreamerupload the docs you want, and we'll include it in the next WRE release16:22
+perlDreamerthis last batch of remodeling went very well16:23
+bartjolwell, I've read the code a bit, but I'm not sure yet what the input should be exactly16:24
+bartjolA line which says:16:25
+bartjol# Put your dir names that should not be included in the backup below. Just the dir name and 1 per line.16:25
+bartjolI'm not sure whether the path can be included16:25
+bartjolreading wre:file.pm now16:28
+bartjolI see, it uses the tar --exclude-from option16:30
+bartjolso patterns are excluded16:30
+bartjolsomething like: # Put in patterns, one per line, that should not be included in the backup. These options are passed into the --exclude-from option from tar. Therefore a complete path is not needed.16:35
+perlDreamerwill it exclude lines with comments in there, or do they need to be stripped out?16:37
+bartjolyeah, I was wondering that16:37
+perlDreamermaybe we should put it into the POD for backup.pl, if there is any?16:38
+bartjolwell, backup.pl --help doesn't do anything, I'll have a look16:38
+bartjolhmpg: :~$ perldoc /data/wre/sbin/backup.pl16:39
+bartjolNo documentation found for "/data/wre/sbin/backup.pl".16:39
+perlDreamersince it's in the WRE, we should assign it to SynQhome16:40
+bartjoladded a note with the proposed comment (slightly altered)16:41
+bartjolhe isn't at home16:41
+bartjolI changed the wiki on the site16:41
+perlDreamerif you have a bit, can you try to duplicate this bug: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/1147316:42
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+perlDreamerI don't know how he's doing it, but I'm not able to hit it in 7.916:42
+bartjolmmm, at first I cannot reproduce it either16:46
+perlDreamermartien's bug hit rate is about 60% (subjectively), and he runs custom code in the core16:46
+bartjolaaah wait16:46
+perlDreamergoing to have to discount this one, probably, or ask him how he does that16:46
+bartjolI have seen that16:46
+perlDreamerbrb, have to take kids to school16:46
+bartjolmmm, I believe it is the isDefault field in the template table16:57
+bartjolwhich is 0 in the duplicated template16:57
+bartjolbut I have seen this behaviour16:57
+perlDreamerI remember a bug about it, but it was a long time ago17:01
+perlDreamernot in recent code17:01
+bartjolmmm, I believe I mainly ignored those messages17:10
+bartjolmartien posted something17:10
+bartjolah, well, I must wait till 7.9.117:11
+perlDreamerit's a duplicate of an earlier bug, #1145917:15
+perlDreamerthe upgrade to 7.9.0 marked every template as duplicate by accident17:16
+perlDreamerwhich was the opposite of the upgrade to 7.8.0, which marked no new templates added by WebGUI as duplicates.17:16
+perlDreamerand I think I've fixed both problems from here on out17:18
+bartjolduplicate? not default?17:19
+bartjolwhy should a template been marked as duplicate anyway, from the duplication on, it is just an asset17:21
+perlDreamersorry, not as duplicates, but as default17:21
+bartjolyou're just trying to confuse me17:23
* perlDreamer is sleep deprived due to daylight savings changes17:25
+bartjolwas that this weekend?17:29
+perlDreamerugh, yes17:30
SDuensinI say we all boycott when they try and change back.17:31
+perlDreameryeah, why go back to daylight wasting time?17:31
SDuensinI have no idea dude.  Government decision.17:31
+bartjolwe first have to get rid of timezones17:34
+bartjoldaylight saving only starts at the 28th of march17:40
+perlDreamerPresident Bush extended it, so that it starts earlier and goes later in the year for us17:42
+bartjolwhat a genius mind17:43
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SDuensinI'm rocketing into the future today!  I get XP Service Pack 3!17:50
+perlDreamerwatch out for whiplash, SDuensin18:05
SDuensinIE7, here I come!18:06
+bartjolyou employer doesn't really care about safety, does he SDuensin?18:09
SDuensinMy employer is a contractor to the government.  Stupid is as stupid does.18:10
+perlDreamerbartjol, bunch of calendar i18n coming your way tomorrow18:42
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rce08b3d / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : Fix a syntax error in the wobject i18n file. - http://bit.ly/aTh6C518:43
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc4b3e1e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the calendar month template variables. Fixes bug #11472. - http://bit.ly/cIk03W18:43
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * re4299c6 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the calendar month template variables. Fixes bug #11472. - http://bit.ly/dmIoF818:44
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1637840 / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : Fix a syntax error in the wobject i18n file. - http://bit.ly/9o7D0N18:44
+perlDreamer8-12 new entries, and 4 edits18:46
+bartjolthere goes my morning18:48
+bartjolat least, half an hour of it18:48
+perlDreamerI can make some tweaks to the transalation CGI if you want it to take more time18:49
+bartjolno thanks18:51
+perlDreameras you wish18:51
+bartjolI finally spend all ning's karma18:51
+bartjoland, does backup.pl already has POD?18:52
+bartjolwhy not?18:53
+bartjoland now?18:54
+perlDreamerbecause you haven't written it yet?18:54
+bartjolwell, there I go18:54
+perlDreamerthat's why we should file a bug and assign it to SynQ18:54
+bartjolI can do that at home tonight18:54
+perlDreamerdo you have commit access to that repo?18:56
+bartjolof copurse not18:57
+bartjolbut I can make it, and give it to someone who does18:57
+bartjolI don have any commit access18:57
+perlDreamerpost it as a bug, or drop me an email and it will be added18:59
+bartjolcan you move rfe? to bug status, and assign it to me19:00
+bartjolthat link I pasted19:00
+bartjolwell, I suppose it? feeding time19:06
+bartjolI must change my keyboard settings...19:06
+bartjolpod writing  tonight19:08
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4fa04a2 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix CSS and HTML errors in the Event Edit template. Fixes bug #11471. - http://bit.ly/dw2WMV19:25
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5869cfe / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Proper bug annotation. - http://bit.ly/dxCJAN19:26
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r5efa9bc / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix CSS and HTML errors in the Event Edit template. Fixes bug #11471. - http://bit.ly/bnuK6B19:27
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rea3d7e0 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Proper bug annotation. - http://bit.ly/aGEf0o19:27
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r5463f96 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move the package to the right directory - http://bit.ly/dddnGK19:27
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0a00583 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm): Force inheritPermissionsFromParent to work in all import scenarios. Also, fix handling of clearPackageFlag and setDefaultTemplate. - http://bit.ly/aSiDVR20:22
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rb526340 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm): Force inheritPermissionsFromParent to work in all import scenarios. Also, fix handling of clearPackageFlag and setDefaultTemplate. - http://bit.ly/bDzpR720:22
+perlDreamerdeleting a remote tag is surprisingly difficult20:41
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@Haargcan't you just git push origin :tag-name ?21:05
+perlDreameroh, wait21:10
+perlDreamerI didn't try with a colon21:10
+perlDreamerI had to do this:  git push origin :refs/tags/v7.8.1321:10
+perlDreamerbut I didn't try git push origin :v7.8.1321:11
+perlDreamerbopbop: why do you think there should be a red X next to the attachment in a post?21:12
@bopbopbecause otherwise I have to save the post in order to get it to delete21:13
@bopbopso it gets emailed out again21:13
@bopbopthen I have to edit, reattach, and save again21:13
+perlDreamerthe X used to be there?21:13
@bopbopso it gets emailed out yet again21:13
@bopbopI believe so21:13
@bopbopbefore, you confirmed you wanted to delete the attachment then clicked the red X21:13
@bopbopthe attachment went away and the browse field returned21:14
@bopbopall in the same screen... no saving21:14
+perlDreamerI'll start checking old versions and see what happened21:14
@bopbopcheck in 7.5ish21:14
+perlDreamerokay, it's not in 7.6 for sure21:15
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+perlDreamerNo X in 7.5.4021:17
+perlDreamerbut there is an X next to an article21:18
+perlDreamerarticle attachment21:18
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+perlDreamerhm, but there's a note about it being removed21:20
+perlDreamerfrom the Post21:20
+perlDreamerapparently I pulled it out because it bypasses revision control21:21
+perlDreamerbut that's the rub21:21
+perlDreamerif it starts obeying revision control again, then it will send out notices when the attachments are updated21:21
+perlDreamerbopbop: this is the bug in question: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/926021:22
@bopbopwell, I think it was a mistake21:23
@bopbopI don't think it needs to be deleted from the uploads directory21:23
@bopbopjust the cs post21:23
+perlDreamerthe cs post stores its attachments in the uploads directory21:24
+perlDreamerall attachments go in there21:24
@bopbopwell, I can go ahead and do it how it has to be done now, I just don't appreciate the backlash from the users who are going to email me with "stop spamming my email" replies21:24
@bopbopafter they get the email three times so I can change the image21:24
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+perlDreamertry changing the commit workflow to commit with approval21:25
+perlDreamerthat may not send out the notification until it's approved21:25
+perlDreamerand would let you edit it several times21:25
@bopbopalright... I understand why this particular person wanted it changed, but I think the "fix" had larger implications for other users21:26
+perlDreamerWe can always ask Doug to look at the larger situation and decide if we should change it.21:29
* perlDreamer goes for a run21:30
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r16a2e4e / www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey.js : Fix some more surve JS i18n. - http://bit.ly/9Y815T23:21
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CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r6e5a437 / www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey.js : Fix some more surve JS i18n. - http://bit.ly/bRXmyf23:31
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Edlikcan anyone recommend a free hosting service for webGUI or does anyone know if 000webhost.com can host it? I havent been able to find out what os they use.14:23
+bartjolwell, there aren't many free webgui hosters I'm afraid14:25
+bartjolI don't know about 000webhost.com14:25
+bartjolroot access isn't mentioned14:26
+bartjolSo Edlik, I'm afraid you'll have to look somewhere else14:28
+bartjolyou at least will have to go for the 5$/month, ssh access is included14:34
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+bartjolhey scott15:49
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+perlDreamergood morning, good WebGUI folks17:15
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+bartjolperlDreamer: I'd like somefeedback on the implementation of the documentation I made17:39
+perlDreamerdid you want informed feedback, or do you want me to wing it?17:40
+bartjoleeeh,  the first sounds better, but "wing it" is unfamiliar to me17:40
+bartjolif it means "take over from you" that's ok ofcourse :P17:41
+bartjolno, I'll finish the stuff17:41
+perlDreamerwing it == shoot from the hip == improvise17:41
+perlDreamerfor the wre.conf examples, this is what I would do17:42
+perlDreamerI would describe each option stand alone, which no hash syntax17:42
+bartjolI, I improvised17:42
+perlDreamerthen I would show a sample pieice of wre.conf in the correct format17:42
+bartjolso a bit like I did, but without the out-of-place hash syntax17:43
+bartjoland an examle17:43
+bartjolwell, it is better than it was17:43
+perlDreamerjust having the POD is 80% of the solution17:44
+perlDreamerin fact, I can take what you wrote and do the tweaking that I'm suggesting17:45
+perlDreamersound okay?17:45
+bartjoloh, well17:47
+bartjoldepends whether you're looking for work or not17:47
+bartjolmaybe for just one17:48
+bartjolso we have a nice cooperated example17:48
+bartjoland I can alter the rest of the scripts in wre/sbin17:48
+bartjolfrom POD view those are crap17:48
+perlDreamerokay, I'll do the backup one and commit it17:49
+bartjolI won't have the time for it till thursday17:50
+bartjolbut it is missing for years17:54
+bartjolI dunno when the next official release of the wre will be17:55
+bartjolI should ask Koen I suppose17:55
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+bartjolhe Tiler Parker17:56
+perlDreamerbartjol, maybe instead of putting wre.conf POD into lots of scripts, we should make one POD file for the whole wre.conf, and only document script options in each script?17:59
+bartjolI agree that the explanations might as well be in the conf18:01
+bartjolonly, even with no options, you'll need a redirect from the POD of the script files18:01
+perlDreameryes, we'll have to say something like18:01
+perlDreamerplease see the BACKUP options part of wre.conf.pod18:01
+bartjolvery large18:02
+bartjolthat'd be ok18:02
+perlDreamerI'll pull the wre.conf stuff out of backup.pl, and start a wre.conf.pod file18:02
+perlDreamerthen we can add to it pieces when needed18:02
+bartjolah, that wre.conf file pod will be large :)18:03
CIA-58wrebuild: Colin Kuskie master * r9250085 / wre/sbin/backup.pl : Add baseline POD to backup.pl - http://bit.ly/dtZB6d18:08
+perlDreamerokay, POD added18:08
CIA-58wrebuild: Colin Kuskie master * r1f146da / wre/sbin/wre.conf.pod : Begin documenting the wre.conf file. - http://bit.ly/cClgyr18:08
* perlDreamer goes to the gym. I'll add the other files when I come back18:15
+bartjoloh well, I have to go too18:16
+bartjolI'll see the results, but don't overdo it18:16
+perlDreameryes, sir!18:16
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CIA-58wrebuild: Colin Kuskie master * r78edb05 / (wre/sbin/logrotate.pl wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl): Add POD to logrotate and wreconsole scripts. - http://bit.ly/bNevDR19:46
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfb14f13 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm): Add labels to the Layout templates so they show up in Shortcut overrides. Fixes bug #11476. - http://bit.ly/cYdKzw20:05
CIA-58webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r2465da4 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm): Add labels to the Layout templates so they show up in Shortcut overrides. Fixes bug #11476. - http://bit.ly/ddqrDa20:05
CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop master * r1919973 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm): fixed: Unable to add threads with permission to edit CS but not in post group - http://bit.ly/bafugN20:21
CIA-58webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * r34967f7 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm): fixed: Unable to add threads with permission to edit CS but not in post group - http://bit.ly/9Sf1tT20:21
+perlDreamernice find, haarg20:28
@Haargi finally added a thing to wgdev for running across multiple sites20:43
@Haargso if you had a package to install on every site, you can do wgd for-each --exec="wgd package -i ~/fix.wgpkg"20:44
+perlDreamerI really want to install wgd on the servers I have to maintain20:46
+perlDreamerat least for the ease of saying wgd db --config myConfig.conf20:47
+perlDreamerI hate having to find the db auth info in the config files20:47
@Haarg./Build distexec && scp wgd-v0.5.0 server:wgd20:48
@Haargi usually end up sticking the single-file version on servers i'm working on20:48
+perlDreamerit's not the mechanics, it's the permissions issue20:48
@Haarghow so?20:49
+perlDreamerwell, I just don't know whether or not I'm allowed to install software on the sites that I maintain20:49
@Haargwell, that's why i just stick it leaving it in my home directory20:50
+perlDreamerthat would work20:50
+perlDreamerdid you get my reply about Paths?20:51
@Haargi got a reply and responded20:52
+perlDreamerso for people who are not WRE users (and there seem to be more and more of these), they'd just need to setup PERL5LIB themselves20:53
+perlDreamerin that case, I don't have any other questions or issues20:53
+perlDreamerjust impatient to get it!20:53
@Haargand the apache config would need to be adjusted somewhat20:53
@Haargbut it's basically just setting the perl include path20:53
@Haarginstead of setting the WebGUI root path20:54
+perlDreamerthat's not bad.  It should be in the migration instructions20:54